# CableCARD installation FAQ



## jfh3

*** 2011 update coming ***

Most of the information in this FAQ hasn't been updated since 2009; I'm working on an update.

Even though this information is stickied in the Series 3 thread, CableCARDs can be used in the original Series 3, the Tivo HD and the Premieres.

Note that Premiere and Premiere XL take a single M-stream card, like the THD. Also note that CableCARD companies must now allow self-install. This is (should be) very simple and only take 5-15 minutes.

***

This thread is to try and list common problems with CableCARD installation and activation issues. Although many have had CableCARDs sucessfully installed in a Tivo Series 3 box or the newer Tivo HD box without issue, there are a number of common issues that prevent a successfull install. And since most cable companies won't let the customer talk to the few people that truely understand CableCARDs, it can be difficult to get a problem corrected.

Please keep this thread short - DO NOT post with specific problems here - post those in the appropriate provider thread instead.

See this thread for details: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989

This is the current Tivo help page on CableCARD installation and troubleshooting (as of Sept 2009). Information on this page should be considered more reliable than what is posted here:
http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html

Note that the above page references the newer Tivo HD boxes, where this thread was originally established for the original Series 3 box.

My specific experience is limited to Comcast and Motorola cards in the Denver area. However most of these questions/issues will apply to any cable company in any area.

*1. Are there different types of CableCARDs?*

Yes. There are either single-stream cards (SCards) or multi-stream cards (MCards).

SCards allow the decryption of a single stream (e.g. support for a single tuner). These have been available for a while and are still more common in the field.

MCards allow the decryption of multiple streams concurrently (e.g. support for dual tuners in the Series 3 Tivo HD boxes). You can use MCards in an original Series 3 box, but they will only function as SCards (e.g. you will need two MCards in an S3 to get dual tuner support, where you only need one MCard in a THD box).

Many CSRs (and some installers) don't know the difference between an SCard and and MCard. If possible, ask specifically for MCards, especially if you have a Tivo HD box. The good news is that MOST new card available now SHOULD be MCards.

*2. Do I need one CableCARD or two?*

Each of the Series 3 boxes supports recording two digital cable channels at once. 
The newer Tivo HD box currently supports MCards, so you will need one MCard or two SCards for full functionality.. 
Currently, the software in the original Series 3 box does not support the multistream capabilities of the MCard (and this is unlikely to ever change), so you will need two CableCARDs, either SCard or MCard, to have full support.

Either type of Series 3 model Tivo will function with only one SCard, but may operate in single tuner mode.

*3. Where do I get the CableCARDs?*

CableCARDs are not available at retail and must be obtained from your cable company. Some areas allow customers to pick up and install their own cards, but most still require a truck roll for installation.

*4. My cable company says that an installer must come to my house to install the CableCARDs. Is this true?
*
No, but it is fairly typical policy. Tivo provides very easy to follow instructions on how to install CableCARDs in the box. Anyone who can follow simple directions should be able to install CableCARD(s) in a few minutes. The hard part is finding someone at the cable company that knows how to properly pair and validate the card(s).

For the CableCARDs, all the installer is going to do is record some numbers off the cards themselves and some from the Tivo CableCARD configuration screens and call them into dispatch where the numbers will be entered into a computer. Despite what any CSR will tell you, there is nothing specific to a CableCARD install that an installer can do that a customer shouldn't be able to.

The only advantage to having an installer come to your house is to ensure that you have a proper cable signal feeding the Tivo.

*5. My cable company says they do not support Tivo - what do I do?*

Politely remind the cable rep that they are REQUIRED by the FCC and CableLabs to support the use of CableCARDs in ANY device on the approved list, including Tivo. The cable company does not have to "support" Tivo, but they must either allow you to install CableCARDs in the Tivo and activate/authorize them or do it themselves.

Both the original Series 3 and the newer Tivo HD are on the CableLabs supported device list - the Series 3 Tivo (Model TCD648250B) and Tivo HD (Model TCD652160) boxes are classified by CableLabs as set top boxes.

If your cable company is very small, they may be exempted by the FCC from having to provide CableCARDs, but this is the exception - all of the major MSOs must provide you CableCARDs at a nominal charge for use in your Tivo.

*6. My cable company still says they do not support Tivo - now what?*

If you still have difficulty, call the special hotline Tivo has established for CableCARD installation issues: *(866) 986-8486*

*7. What do cable companies charge for CableCARDs?*

This will vary with the provider, but generally if there is a charge it is $1.50 to $4.95 per card per month. In most cases, if you are being assessed a separate HDTV charge, you are not being charged correctly. You should have no more than one equipment rental charge per outlet - EITHER a cable company provided converter box or DVR OR CableCARD(s) - NOT BOTH.

Comcast help page regarding CableCARD fees

*8. What can I do before the installer arrives?*

Have the CableCARD installation sheet that came in the Tivo carton ready for your installer. They will almost certainly insist that they don't need it, but most will.

Read this FAQ and the appropriate Tivo support page for CableCARD installation: (These also show the relevant Tivo screens).

You should also run guided setup to make sure you have the current level of Tivo software loaded. Just select the option that says "I'll install CableCards later" (I don't recollect the actual text) during the setup process and select the digital line up option.

*9. What should I do when the installer arrives?*

Hand the CableCARD installation instructions to the installer.

MAKE SURE THEY ONLY DO ONE CARD AT A TIME. Most will insist it is OK just to put both cards in (if using SCards) and do both at once. Ask them if they want to be in your house a few minutes or a few hours. 
(This is a very strong suggestion and Tivo's recommended procedure, not an absolute. If you have an installer than knows what they are doing and the tech on the phone gets the numbers right, there is no reason two cards can't be initialized/validated at the same time.

*10. What information does the cable company need to activate a CableCARD?*

They will need either the physical serial number of the card (printed on the card itself) or the CableCARD id or the unit address of the card (found on the CableCARD Pairing screen on the Tivo). In my area, Comcast only needs the physical serial number.

*They will also need the Host ID and Data value (found in the pairing screen on the Tivo).

If they do not have these values properly input into their system, your cards will not be properly set up, no matter what channels you see or what anyone tells you!*

*11. I have my CableCARD(s) installed, but some of the channels I'm supposed to get are grey. Why?*

Three likely reasons:

*1) Your cable company doesn't have the proper programming tier authorized on your account. *

This is not a CableCARD specific issue, but an accounting or programming authorization issue, and once corrected, the proper programming shows up through any CableCARD or digital converter you have on your account.

*2) Your CableCARD is not properly paired. *

In order for your cards to function properly, they must be associated or "paired" with your account. This is why the information described in question 5 is necessary. If a card is properly paired, it will work in only the host (or in the case of a Tivo, a specific CableCARD slot) and cannot be moved to another device (or slot) without having to be paired again.

To see if a card is properly paired:

For a Motorola SCard
You will see "SUBSCRIBED" in the authorization field on the Conditional Access screen from the CableCARD Menu for the card in question.

For an SA card
You will see "CP Auth Received" and "Powerkey Status: Ready"
(If they are not authorized, you get "CP Auth NOT Received" and "Powerkey Status: Waiting").

_Note:_ You can see the values indicated and still not see all your channels - see the next sub topic on validation. If this is the case, you card is paired and authorized, but may not see the copy protected channels

*3) Your CableCARD is not properly validated.*

For cable companies that use copy protection flags on some channels, there is another step called validation.

When you see some channels, but not all (usually premiums like HBO or Showtime), the likely problem is that even though the CableCARDs may have had the proper pairing information entered (and are therefor authorized for your account), they
haven't been validated. This is not a problem until you start using copy protection (i.e. a non-zero CCI value on a channel). If you don't use copy protection, as long as the cards remain authorized, they can be moved between hosts and they'll still continue to decrypt anything they're authorized for.

However, with copy protected channels (non-zero CCI value), the card needs to get an additional message from the headend explicitly validating the host/CableCARD pairing information. The card will only decrypt copy protected channels after it receives this message. If you tune a copy protected channel using an unvalidated card you may see a few seconds of video before the card stops decrypting and pops up the MMI screen.

If you move cards (either put a card into a different slot, or put a different card into the same slot), that breaks the pairing validation. In the case of Motorola, breaking this also causes the card to regenerate a new data field -which then needs to be updated in the headend.

*12. How do I tell if my CableCARDs are properly validated?*

For a Motorola SCard:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. It should say "Valid" followed by a 2 digit number. If it says "Unknown", the card may be paired, but is not validated.

For a Motorola MCard:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. The field is "Val ?" If the card is validated, the field will start with a "V" (e.g. V 0x00). If not, there will be no "V" (e.g. 0x00)

*(If someone knows the proper status for cards from other manufacturers, please PM me)
*

*13. Do CableCARDs work with FIOS?*

Yes.

*14. There was an error message during the installation of the CableCARDs. Now what?*

Depends on the error message. If you received a 161-4 error code, this can be safely ignored (it is actually a "good" error).

*15. How do I determine the status of my CableCARD(s)?*

See the Tivo troubleshooting link above.

*16. How do I tell if I have a good quality cable signal for my Tivo?*

(To be added)

*17. Where can I find more information on troubleshooting CableCARD issues?*

Tivo has a terrific page in their support section, with plenty of pictures and troubleshooting tips:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html


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## jfh3

OK - have to work on some updates. Any suggestions for other questions?


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## myyours

"What buzz words should I use when speaking to my [Comcast] cable rep when I'm trying to explain to them what they need to do to properly pair/validate my cablecard?"

Still trying to figure this out, after 5 installers and 15 calls to Comcast. "Initialize" and "cold initiate" haven't done the trick yet.


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## aaronwt

The FIOS tech Saturday input the info himself to his laptop that was connected wirelessly from a cell phone. It was more efficient than when I got my cards from Comcast and they had to repeat the info two or three times(for each card) on the Phone. The FIOS tech didn't need to make any calls and the cards responded quickly once the information was input from the Laptop to the Verizon Network.

although one of the 4 cards installed did freeze up last night and is stuck in whatever state is was in. So it won't decrypt anymore. But at least I was able to put that TiVoHD in single tuner mode even though the working cable card is in slot 2 and I removed the bad card from slot 1.
I thought the TiVoHD might not work properly in single tuner mode since it says slot one should be used when using one card. Apparently it works with just one card in slot 2 and slot one empty. Well it's been working fine for the last 27 hours anyway.


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## ZPrime

Just a suggestion - I had my TWC M-card put in today (it's an SA card) and even after it was authorized i wasn't getting anything on the channel test. (Just a black screen.) I pulled power from the Tivo and replaced it, and after the stinking 8 minute boot process it came up and channel test was working and all my stuff was there.

So, if you're having problems during a card install and you're showing auth'd but nothing's there, try rebooting the Tivo. If you have S-cards, make sure you DO NOT try "swapping" them between slots, due to the aforementioned "Validation" process... if you're going to pull a card, replace it in the same slot.


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## twoehr

During my two month ordeal of having my Series 3 properly setup an interesting issue was discovered. On separate occasions my cable modem (twice) and Series3/CableCards (once or twice) stopped working. The symptoms were the same as if the devices became de-registered from the headend. The cable modem continually booted seeking connectivity and the Series3 would only show non-premium channels (prems were gray screen). When checked by the techs the devices were always on my account, but were at the "bottom" of the list. When the devices were moved up in the list they started working. According to a senior tech HD device are to be on top, followed by cable modems, and then digital boxes. Each time my device list was corrected to that standard all problems went away, no other changes were made. When correcting the cable modem once I was told that after the 5th device only the "older" i.e., std digital boxes work. So if your cable cards are low on the list, past 5?, they may not work. I guess if I buy a couple more S3s I'll find out!

Atlantic Broadband in DelMarVa.


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## jfh3

twoehr said:


> During my two month ordeal of having my Series 3 properly setup an interesting issue was discovered. On separate occasions my cable modem (twice) and Series3/CableCards (once or twice) stopped working. The symptoms were the same as if the devices became de-registered from the headend. The cable modem continually booted seeking connectivity and the Series3 would only show non-premium channels (prems were gray screen). When checked by the techs the devices were always on my account, but were at the "bottom" of the list. When the devices were moved up in the list they started working. According to a senior tech HD device are to be on top, followed by cable modems, and then digital boxes. Each time my device list was corrected to that standard all problems went away, no other changes were made. When correcting the cable modem once I was told that after the 5th device only the "older" i.e., std digital boxes work. So if your cable cards are low on the list, past 5?, they may not work. I guess if I buy a couple more S3s I'll find out!
> 
> Atlantic Broadband in DelMarVa.


The key is for the CableCARDs to be in front of the modem. I'd planned to add that to the FAQ, but haven't gotten to it yet.


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## busyba

What "list" are you guys talking about?


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## jrm01

busyba said:


> What "list" are you guys talking about?


Comcast (and I assume others) actually Authorize your account for the channels that you can receive in their billing system. The Authorization is done for each individual Outlet that you have. An outlet is a cablecard, modem or cable box. The billing system lists these Outlets on their Billing System (you'll see it in your bill also). If the Modem is listed higher than the Cablecards, the Cablecards don't seem to get the proper Authorization. The Outlets are usually referred to as A, B, C, etc. It is usually hard to get the Comcast CSR to believe this,and even harder to get them to change it. I have seen it work countless times.


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## busyba

jrm01 said:


> Comcast (and I assume others) actually Authorize your account for the channels that you can receive in their billing system. The Authorization is done for each individual Outlet that you have. An outlet is a cablecard, modem or cable box. *The billing system lists these Outlets on their Billing System (you'll see it in your bill also)*. If the Modem is listed higher than the Cablecards, the Cablecards don't seem to get the proper Authorization. The Outlets are usually referred to as A, B, C, etc. It is usually hard to get the Comcast CSR to believe this,and even harder to get them to change it. I have seen it work countless times.


Ahhh. I'm Time Warner Cable in NYC. My bill doesn't look anything like that, so I suppose that maybe this doesn't apply to me.


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## roofnron

Have you worked any more on #16. 

I am having problems with aquiring channels. OOB SNR on my box says 23-24. Is this good? My understanding is digital cable (QAM256) SNR should be above 31db. Not sure this the OOB is the same. 

My cable modem is hooked beside my Tivo HD. Cable line is split to each of them. Cable modem SNR is 35db. Again not sure if that would translate to the digital cable being strong.


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## LisaD

May I ask..... Besides costs - Is there any disadvantage to haveing 2 single cards vs. 1 M-card in a TivoHD (or S3 if applicable)? Should a TivoHD owner not have access to M-cards and get 2 singles - should they upgrade to the 1 m-card ASAP? Any decrease in functionality, speed, picture, etc? Or, is it a 100% wash (besides cost for the 2nd card)?


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## ah30k

LisaD said:


> May I ask..... Besides costs - Is there any disadvantage to haveing 2 single cards vs. 1 M-card in a TivoHD (or S3 if applicable)? Should a TivoHD owner not have access to M-cards and get 2 singles - should they upgrade to the 1 m-card ASAP? Any decrease in functionality, speed, picture, etc? Or, is it a 100% wash (besides cost for the 2nd card)?


Besides the cost (both additional outlet fee and rental fee) there is no difference. Some say FiOS limits your total number of devices so that might factor in.


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## pl1

I ordered two new cableCARDs for a second Series 3. The installer put them in and they could not get the pairing to take. 

After he left, I tried a few things, and unplugged the coax from my original unit. I called Comcast and they got my new unit working correctly. 

I plugged in my old unit only to find out that I lost all encrypted channels on one tuner. Even though everything showed up fine in the cableCARD menu, Comcast could not get a response from one of the cards. 

I have a feeling that when they sent hits to my new unit it confused my old unit. They are coming back Saturday to look at my old unit. At this point, it shows SUBSCRIBED on both tuners, but the pairing is lost. (We switched slots.)

Question. With multiple TiVo's, should I unplug the coax from the good one when installing the cablecards? Also, I read in the cableCARD install FAQ that the modem should be after the cableCARDs. I asked the CSR and he said it shouldn't matter since most peole have it on the same splitter. But, he did agree that there are codes A, B, C, D for each cableCARD. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am on the verge of returning everything and going back to one unit. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, and a little bit of extra information. My original install about 9 months ago went hitch free with two Motorola S-cards. This install was with two Motorola M-cards. I guess it shouldn't matter, but there is a difference. And it does not look like getting S-cards is even an option any longer.

EDIT: More info. I called TiVo support for cableCARD issues to ask them what they thought. The Woman I spoke with was very helpful. Bottom line it was suggested that I take down all of the HOST ID codes from my TiVos for all 4 cards and present them to the installer so that he/she can verify that Comcast has the right numbers. (I can't seem to get anyone at Comcast to verify those numbers for me over the phone. She also said to have Comcast send two signals to each card. INITIALIZATION (Not Refresh Init) and VALIDATE (Not re-validate). 

She seems to think it is probably an error on Comcast's part, like they removed one card on their records and re-entered it wrong, or something. She also gave me their HOT-Line # 1-866-986-8486 for the Installer to call if he needs help. So, we will see how that goes. 

I'm still thinking it would be best to unplug the coax from the working TiVo while they are working on the unpaired TiVo.


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## Mordred

I had the cable card install yesterday here in Austin with TWC. Took about 2.5 hours. The tech had installed CCs in Tivos before (not sure if S3 or HD which I have) so he knew what to do, it just wasn't working. He had brought M-Cards which was good. It took forever for the office to send a hit to the CC and then it took longer for the TiVo to get any EMMs. We had picture at first, but once the EMMs went through and the card was authorized we lost all channels. Tried having another hit sent and no change. He reseated the card, still no dice. We tried a different card, went through the exact same process and after another half hour of waiting for the card to be authorized still no channels.

I was fortunately looking on the site here and suggested we try Z-Prime's suggestion of rebooting the TiVo. As soon as it booted up, all the channels were coming through just fine.


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## gfisher99

Mordred said:


> I had the cable card install yesterday here in Austin with TWC. Took about 2.5 hours. The tech had installed CCs in Tivos before (not sure if S3 or HD which I have) so he knew what to do, it just wasn't working. He had brought M-Cards which was good. It took forever for the office to send a hit to the CC and then it took longer for the TiVo to get any EMMs. We had picture at first, but once the EMMs went through and the card was authorized we lost all channels. Tried having another hit sent and no change. He reseated the card, still no dice. We tried a different card, went through the exact same process and after another half hour of waiting for the card to be authorized still no channels.
> 
> I was fortunately looking on the site here and suggested we try Z-Prime's suggestion of rebooting the TiVo. As soon as it booted up, all the channels were coming through just fine.


I am in Austin with TWC as well. Had an M-Card installed in my HD around 1pm yesterday. Went smooth, tech left in 20 mins. I wasnt getting any of the HD Tier channels when he left, and he said they could take "up to 8 hours" to start working.

Came home last night and still just getting a black screen on Discovery, and any HD except the locals, which were working fine.

Rebooted the TiVo as people above have said, no dice. Furthermore, my TiVo went to the "Serious Problem, this may take 3 hours" screen. It finally booted after about 45 minutes. Still no HD.

Called TWC last night around 1am, got right thru. Guy said he saw some problems, said HD Tier was still assigned to my STB not the CC. Changed it, said it would take about an hour and should be good.

Woke up at 8am, and still nothing on any HD except the locals.

Have a feeling this problem isnt going to go away with ease or with speed 

Best Buy may be getting the THD back very soon. I still have my trusty S2 and S2DT, but man I want HD!


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## Mordred

Send a PM to cableguy763 and he may be able to help you out. He's the CC/Tivo expert here at TWAustin.


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## cableguy763

Mordred said:


> Send a PM to cableguy763 and he may be able to help you out. He's the CC/Tivo expert here at TWAustin.


Yes, send me a pm with basic contact info and I will get it all fixed up for you...


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## Craig T

I was considering getting a TIVO HD but just found out that Comcast will charge me $6.95 for the second cable card(this is in Tennessee). I pointed out that it was for a single device on one outlet and that their own FAQ says it would be "up to $1.91" for the additional card but two separate calls to them got me the same $6.95 reply. They essentiaIly said the FAQ doesn't mean anything. I have a feeling they are going to start discouraging people(like they did me) from using the TIVO boxes and sticking with their own DVR since they are getting fairly close to releasing their TIVO software. Grrr. Any ideas about who to contact at Comcast or TIVO or do they have the right to charge whatever they want? Thanks.

Craig


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## CrispyCritter

Craig T said:


> I was considering getting a TIVO HD but just found out that Comcast will charge me $6.95 for the second cable card(this is in Tennessee). I pointed out that it was for a single device on one outlet and that their own FAQ says it would be "up to $1.91" for the additional card but two separate calls to them got me the same $6.95 reply. They essentiaIly said the FAQ doesn't mean anything. I have a feeling they are going to start discouraging people(like they did me) from using the TIVO boxes and sticking with their own DVR since they are getting fairly close to releasing their TIVO software. Grrr. Any ideas about who to contact at Comcast or TIVO or do they have the right to charge whatever they want? Thanks.
> 
> Craig


I don't know of any Comcast customers now paying $6.95 for the second CableCard within a single TiVo. A good number of people have been told they have to by front-line reps, but if you escalate it far enough up your local chain then you can get set to the $1.91 rate.

For the TiVo HD, in many franchises it will be make no difference in any case. Comcast is switching over to M-cards instead of S-cards in most places, and the TiVo HD (but not the S3) can use 1 M-card instead of 2 S-cards for its two streams. (M stands for Multi-stream).


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## Craig T

Thanks for the reply. It's good to know that it's probably a case of just being able to get transferred to a supervisor(hopefully one that has a clue).

I asked several CSR's about whether M cards or S cards are being used when I called asking about prices but they didn't even know the difference. I did get connected once to tech support but he only knew the cards were being used for TV's. Boy, trying to get connected to someone at Comcast who knows anything about cable cards is turning out to be a real challenge. Even the CSR's I did get to talk to had to ask somebody else- and their info is apparently wrong. I really need to be sure of the costs before I can even think about ordering a TIVO. Thanks again.

Craig


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## pl1

Craig T said:


> I was considering getting a TIVO HD but just found out that Comcast will charge me $6.95


It's different everywhere, region by region, with Comcast. Here in the NE, it's free for the first one, and $2.75 per A/O (Additional Outlet) if you have any premium stations. I think it would be totally free if you just needed it for the local and basic tier. But, I have HBO/SHO and with 4 cableCARDS, I get charged for 3 A/O's at $2.75 each.


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## Craig T

I finally got connected to a Comcast CSR that apparently even knew what a cable card was and looked up to see what type our area was using. It showed we are now using M cards so the cost factor of a second card is null and void. At least I hope so and this would explain why the others consistently came up with costs showing up as the price for a second outlet. Thanks guys.

Craig


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## pl1

Craig T said:


> I finally got connected to a Comcast CSR that apparently even knew what a cable card was and looked up to see what type our area was using. It showed we are now using M cards so the cost factor of a second card is null and void. At least I hope so and this would explain why the others consistently came up with costs showing up as the price for a second outlet. Thanks guys.
> Craig


For TiVo HD only (as you say, that's what you are interested in.) The series 3 unit requires 2 cableCARDs, whether or not they are S-Cards or M-cards. And that does not look like it is going to change, according to TiVo Jerry, which really stinks for S3 owners.


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## scroos

> "9. What should I do when the installer arrives?
> 
> Hand the CableCARD installation instructions to the installer.
> 
> MAKE SURE THEY ONLY DO ONE CARD AT A TIME. Most will insist it is OK just to put both cards in (if using SCards) and do both at once. Ask them if they want to be in your house a few minutes or a few hours."


Could someone elaborate on this one? The tech sent to my house swankered in like John Wayne and put 2 M-Cards in at the same time. It wasn't until I stepped in that I realized that he was clueless. After removing Slot 2 Card, and several reboots, I am still having the aforementioned issues with HD Channels (CableCard greyscreen).

BTW....This is on my first Tivo HD <-----n00b

TIA

OO


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## pl1

scroos said:


> Could someone elaborate on this one? The tech sent to my house swankered in like John Wayne and put 2 M-Cards in at the same time. It wasn't until I stepped in that I realized that he was clueless. After removing Slot 2 Card, and several reboots, I am still having the aforementioned issues with HD Channels (CableCard greyscreen).


The main reason you want to do this is because there are two tuners and once both cards are in, it can be difficult to tell if both tuners are authorized. But, that said, there is really no problem with installing both at the same time. In my current case, I had a perfectly functioning S3 with two cableCARDs that Comcast blew the settings on at their office. I left both cards in, the tech called in both sets of numbers, and I am up and running. So, it is not a necessity. It just makes it less confusing. Less confusing is good.


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## pl1

I had to have my Series 3 cableCARDs re-paired this morning. I asked the tech on-site where the data ID was stored. (That is the only number that changes when you modify the hardware.) He said that the number is generated by the DAC and stored there. Seeing as the cableCARD is a one way device, the DAC sends the new number to the cableCARD. The only thing I still can't figure out though is why they have to call in the data ID and manually enter it if their own equipment is generating the number.

DAC = Digital Addressable Controller

http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/CableCARDpaper_sept03.pdf



> Data Field
> 
> Unique randomly generated value created during the CableCARD/Host pairing
> process. This value is a private security data authenticator utilized by the Motorola Conditional Access System in performance of the functions specified in the CableCARD Copy Protection System specification.
> 
> Below are the steps necessary for supporting CableCARD/Host and CCI in a DAC 2.80.9 lab system:
> 1. CableCARD module is installed into a Host
> 2. CableCARD/Host Pairing Information is displayed on TV and recorded
> 3. Lab personnel adds, initializes and authorizes CableCARD module as DCT2000  One way in DAC
> 4. CableCARD/Host pairing information is entered into CPMS, validation message is generated
> 5. Validation message is manually transferred to DAC (via FTP, disk, etc)
> 6. Utilizing a DAC script, the validation message is sent to the appropriate settop via the OOB


----------



## jfh3

Actually, the Data ID is stored on the hard drive of the Tivo box. The data value is not generated by the DAC, but by the Tivo/CableCARD. The validation key is generated by the DAC - perhaps that's what he was talking about.


----------



## pl1

jfh3 said:


> Actually, the Data ID is stored on the hard drive of the Tivo box. The data value is not generated by the DAC, but by the Tivo/CableCARD. The validation key is generated by the DAC - perhaps that's what he was talking about.


It's not stored on the hdd. I just got finished testing this theory. It is possible that the cableCARD stores the DATA ID.

Anytime you make a significant change to the system by either swapping cableCARDs or hdd's, the DAC generates a new DATA ID. It is stored on the DAC and it is transmitted to the cableCARD. The cableCARD can not transmit back. What needs to be manually entered is the Hosting/pairing info into the CPMS (COPY PROTECTION MANAGEMENT SYSTEM) wich generates a validation key. That is then updated back to the DAC.



> 4. CableCARD/Host pairing information is entered into CPMS, validation message is generated
> 5. Validation message is manually transferred to DAC (via FTP, disk, etc)
> 6. Utilizing a DAC script, the validation message is sent to the appropriate settop via the OOB


EDIT: The reason most of us believed that the DATA ID was stored on the hdd was because you can make an image of your hdd and transfer it to a new drive. When you put in the new drive, it keeps the same DATA ID. So, it was assumed (and I myself always assumed) that it must be kept on the hdd. The reason that it worked was because the hdd APPEARED to be identical (to the DAC).

I have my original hdd with the cableCARDs I currently have. After losing my DATA ID on my side, I put back in my old drive. It generated a third DATA ID proving that a new number was generated once the DAC saw a change.


----------



## pl1

jfh3 said:


> The data value is not generated by the DAC, but by the Tivo/CableCARD.


 I did not mean to disagree with this statement. I pretty much believe that this is very possible and most likely. I'm guessing the tech is not 100% sure how it all works, he just knows that the cableCARD must be configured in the DAC. The reason I asked was that I was hoping to get the facts, but after re-reading the Motorola white sheet, it does appear that the DATA ID is generated locally. So, my apologies.


----------



## pl1

jfh3 said:


> Tivo has a terrific page in their support section, with plenty of pictures and troubleshooting tips:
> 
> Tivo support - Triubleshooting CableCARD activation and channel issues


UPDATED

http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=f8f40dc6-5fb6-4ed8-ac41-d8cd0d5c0824


----------



## mpmclaugh33

jfh3 said:


> The key is for the CableCARDs to be in front of the modem. I'd planned to add that to the FAQ, but haven't gotten to it yet.


This is definitely a key piece of info. I had a cablecard install this past Saturday. It took about 2 hrs. Ultimately the issue was the device order. Once they got the cablecard in there first everything went smooth.

My installer was good. He didn't know a ton about cablecards but he was pleased to learn new stuff. He didn't know that if you used a multi stream card that you only need one card. I gave him the Tivo cablecard install sheet that came with my TivoHD so he could have it for future reference.


----------



## oklapoema

I just got a replacement S3 Tivo and I am wondering if I can switch out the cable cards myself. My old S3 works fine other than one of the standard def tuners keeps on going black and white. Any suggestions on if switching the cable cards myself is a good idea. I would hate to have to call suddenlink and pay another fee for cable card install, when it is the same cards going in the same type of device.


----------



## astrohip

jfh3 said:


> *2. Do I need one CableCARD or two?*
> <snip>
> Currently, the software in the original Series 3 box does not support the multistream capabilities of the MCard, so you will need two CableCARDs, either SCard or MCard, to have full support.
> <snip>


Just to be absolutely clear, you can even mix the cards. An S3 will work with 2 SCards, 2 MCards or one of each. It doesn't change the fact that at this time MCards still only feed one stream in an S3.


----------



## benh57

Just picked up 2 cc's for my new TivoHD from time warner. Called them for pairing and they had no clue how to do that. So they are sending a tech out. She didn't think it was allowed for a customer to pair them themselves.

Maybe i should just call back till i get someone who knows?


----------



## kgcore

To all, 

I just wanted to provide a blow by blow on how I got Tivo working on Comcast. I hope it helps someone else not spend the 8 hours I did. 

I will bullet it by action:
- I hooked up my New Tivo HD. 
- I put it on my network: No problem, Tivo HD has an ethernet port.
- I put my M-Series Tivo card (only needs 1) in my Tivo I got from Comcast. 
- Started the CableCard installation process. 
- Went all the way to the end. 
- Called comcast and gave them the two IDs Tivo displayed in the grey commodore 65 font (The host ID and Data ... found on the "CableCard Pairing menu") 
- Clicked Live TV ( It sat on the dreaded "Please Wait...Acquiring Channel Information" screen for like 10 to 15 minutes...)
- It eventually failed and gave an error. 
- I then saw that I had neglected to hook my Tivo up to cable. (The internet was working but the splitter wasn't plugged in ... I'm an idiot )
- Because of this I think I had to jump through additional hoops to get it to work. 
- I plugged cable in and it still didn't work. 
- After more blog reading I came up with a new strategy. A blog said that you may need to update the Tivo software to use the new M-Cards. I think this was more for the series 3 rather than the Tivo HD but was willing to give it a try. 
- I re-connected to Tivo mother ship (because the faq says that tivo does not download any updates to its core system until the second time you connect ... )
- Tivo rebooted and then sat on the "updating software ... this could take more than an hour " screen for like 45 minutes. 
- After it .... finally ... came back, I clicked on the "watch live tv" and still no luck ... the endless "Please Wait...Acquiring Channel Information" came on again. 
- After more blog reading I called Comcast again. 
- I told them my plight and they wanted to send someone back out. Poor comcast reps doing Tivo support ... you can tell they absolutely hate it and their approach is to bill their own company another 200 - 500 bucks by rolling a truck for no good reason. 
- Hung up ... Now have a saturday appointment for 10:00. 
- Back to the blogs
- Found out about some cool codes that can actually tell you a lot on the tivo screen.
- Go to (aprox) settings->Cable Cards-> Cable Card Menu->Network Setup
- There is another commodore 64 menu that shows oob count. Go in and get the count then leave and go back in and get the count again. It should be going up. It was. 
- This is good news. It means that the card is communicating to the mother ship. 
- Found a blog that said you should call comcast and get them to reset it. 
- I called them again "number 3" and the nice lady wanted to roll another truck. 
- I asked her that I already had a service scheduled but wanted to try one more reset. She said that this had already been done twice. I said humor me and do it one more time. 
- I was in the "Conditional Access Screen" and saw the "Val:" change to "V 0x03" I had read that this was another good sign. 
- Back to "Please Wait...Acquiring Channel Information". I asked the comcast lady how long this would take and she said 45 minutes. I hung up. (Just think what this does to their call time metrics.. You know there are plenty of people that just want them to wait......)
- I hung up rather than torture her more and hit the Tivo button to bag out of the screen and went back to the settings->Cable Cards-> Cable Card Menu->Diagnostics and saw "Program Lock: No" curses foiled again. 
- Back to the blogs then looked back up at the screen and saw "Program Lock: Yes"
- It must have been doing something. Could it not be ..... Wait Wait
- Went back to "Watch Live TV" 
- No Acquiring Channel Information screen .. But a blank grey one 
- Waited and behold .... Glorious TIVO in glorious HD.....

My Takeways
- Make sure you have the tivo connected to the cable when you do an initial set up. 
- If that dosn't work connect to Tivo twice to make sure it gets the most current software load. 
- Look at the CableCard diagnostics screen to make sure Tivo is communicating to Comcast
- After all that ... make sure Comcast sends you an activation signal. (Previous ones they have sent may not have worked).
- I don't want to be a comcast customer support person the day after christmas.

I think something is good on Discovery HD.....I think I will go watch it. 

I hope this helps someone else. 
Thanks,
Kent


----------



## xena

Pasadena having problems....got charter sa cards inserted today by rep. followed instructions...shows as auth. received and ready, however do not get many channels 2, or 500 or some HD as well - dumbfounded....please tell me what to do, charter coming in the am to insert mcard (i hope)...funny they say they have only one m card at irwindale to bring....


----------



## jfh3

astrohip said:


> Just to be absolutely clear, you can even mix the cards. An S3 will work with 2 SCards, 2 MCards or one of each. It doesn't change the fact that at this time MCards still only feed one stream in an S3.


I'll make the clarification. I have a number of updates I hope to get done shortly.


----------



## mikeylikesit40

I called the local number for Chamersburg, PA.

This was my third call over the last year. First two were to the 800 number.

I spoke with a person (Melissa) who initially spouted out the exact billing I should be recieving. I have Digital Classic and HDTV (obviously no box from them).

According to their billing schema, first cable card is free for an outlet, second card is $1.91. HDTV, they say is $5.00 per outlet. hmmm, I never saw that listed anywhere.

So, I was being charged $10.00/month for the last year.

She agreed it was wrong but wanted to check with a supervisor. Supervisor said it was correct... $10.00. $5.00 per hdtv access to each card.

She said she was sorry and I asked to talk to the supervisor.

I explained that I have only one outlet. I directed him to the cablecard billing schema of 1st free, 2nd $1.91.

I then explained that I was being charged $10.00 for an equipment rental and I have no other equipment than the 2 cablecards.

He said it was for HDTV to each card ($5.00 each). I asked where I could find that charge explained.

He had no answer.

I asked him to read through the schema to me and tell me where each charge on my bill comes from. Of course, at this point I won.

He took it off my bill, credited me $110 for the last 11 months.

Here is the kicker, for my trouble, he didn't put the $1.91 back on my bill. He also dropped the facade of the $5.00 for HDTV with no equipment.

So, I was expecting at most half the money credited and at worst them agreeing that it was one outlet with 2 cards and HDTV ($1.91 + $5.00 mystery HDTV charge). Instead they made me a happy happy man!


----------



## mikeylikesit40

PS. Just in case it helps others. I forgot to mention a part of the conversation.

Look at their Basic Cable service lineup. It includes HDTV local channels. Read the fine print.... To recieve HDTV, you may need a TV or Converter that can interpret HD signals.

So, for $21.95 a month, you could get all your local TV and a few shopping networks plus all your local TV in High Def. 

Now, if you need a converter box, they will rent you one for $9.95/month. If you don't need it then fine. No Charge. That is an equipment rental.

Hmmm... You will need a couple of Cable Cards for your Tivo though. That will cost you $1.91/month. 

The argument that HDTV costs $5.00 per month is something they made up. Look at all the package channel line ups. It's included. You just need equipment to tune it.

Anyone paying more than $1.91/month for their Comcast cablecards OR paying extra for HDTV needs to contact Comcast and get their money back.

May I also suggest being polite about it. I even explained to the Supervisor that although it's been a year and three phone calls, I'm not frustrated. I realize that HDTV, TIVO's and CableCards are new to everyone and it will take some time to get it all sorted out.

He thanked me for my patience.


----------



## jlb

It's worse than that. I was at Best Buy and I overheard a _MANAGER_ tell a woman buying an HDTV for her husband that she would need some form of cable box to be able to receive HD. Granted, it is possible it was an LCD without a ATSC/QAM tuner built in (how many still exist anyway), but there was no noticable knowledge that if she chose the right TV, she could get HD (local) for free.

I am very excited to be getting a Vizio LCD come holiday time. I only pay $10/mon to Comcast for my "lifeline" service. I'll only need to add $2.50/mo for cablecards. Now, if I am lucky and my local office has M cards, then it would be free (the first card is free followed by $2.50).

Can't wait to watch and record (if TiVoHD is purchased by then) the Superbowl in HD!!!!


----------



## don5438

Am I right that with a Series 3 HDTV Tivo, I need 2 cards, whether multi or single, to get the TIVO to work properly? Comcast coming on Tuesday and I want to be sure they bring all that they need.

Thanks


----------



## TheBar1

You are right, don5438, Of the newer TiVo models, only the TiVO HD can use one multi-stream cablecard for dual tuner service.

Good luck!


----------



## sjn4138

TheBar1 said:


> You are right, don5438, Of the newer TiVo models, only the TiVO HD can use one multi-stream cablecard for dual tuner service.
> 
> Good luck!


Just checking: if I were to put just one Cable Card into a Series 3, would it be able to record digital/HD on one tuner and just basic on the other? Or would I only have one functioning tuner, period? I've actually got two Series 3 boxes, and was hoping to get by with just two cards.....

Thanks


----------



## CrispyCritter

sjn4138 said:


> Just checking: if I were to put just one Cable Card into a Series 3, would it be able to record digital/HD on one tuner and just basic on the other? Or would I only have one functioning tuner, period? I've actually got two Series 3 boxes, and was hoping to get by with just two cards.....


One functioning tuner period. (People have gotten the TiVo into states where it is still using both tuners with only one cablecard, but it means lots of missed recordings as the scheduler tries to use the non-cablecard tuner for a cable HD show).


----------



## cwise

I am coming back to TIVO after 3 years of dealing with Comcast DVR. I got confused about one thing during my research. When you mention the new Series 3 HD TiVo, that only needs one mutlistream cablecard, you are talking about the $299 one that TiVo is selling? The only series 3 that has to have 2 cards (no matter if single or multi) is the more expensive one? 

I think my confusion has come for me skim reading the forum. I went to Best Buy thinking that the Series 3 needed 2 cards while the cheaper box TiVo HD box only needed 1 m-card because it was a Series 2 box. Imagined my confusion when I found out that both boxes are Series 3. So model # TCD652160 only needs one m-card.


----------



## pl1

cwise said:


> I am coming back to TIVO after 3 years of dealing with Comcast DVR. I got confused about one thing during my research. When you mention the new Series 3 HD TiVo, that only needs one mutlistream cablecard, you are talking about the $299 one that TiVo is selling? The only series 3 that has to have 2 cards (no matter if single or multi) is the more expensive one?


Correct. The TiVO HD for $299 only requires one Multi-tuner card but can use two S-Cards. The more expensive Series 3 requires two cableCARDS. Either 2 S-Cards, 2 M-Cards, or any combination.


----------



## tamooreindy

pl1 said:


> Correct. The TiVO HD for $299 only requires one Multi-tuner card but can use two S-Cards. The more expensive Series 3 requires two cableCARDS. Either 2 S-Cards, 2 M-Cards, or any combination.


I don't think this is any longer correct. I just received a new Tivo HD Series 3 yesterday. The installer instructions (to hand to the installer) say that it can use one M card for two tuners. It is definitely a Series 3.


----------



## aaronwt

Series 3 is used by people to designate the more expensive version with the OLED screen. Even though the TiVoHD is technically a series 3, people just call that a TiVoHD.
What people call a Series3(OLED screen) can only accept single stream cards(it can actually use M cards but only use it in single stream mode so you would still need two cards)


----------



## pl1

tamooreindy said:


> I don't think this is any longer correct. I just received a new Tivo HD Series 3 yesterday. The installer instructions (to hand to the installer) say that it can use one M card for two tuners. It is definitely a Series 3.


The THD has no OLED display on the front panel and it does not have the glow remote. That is the cheaper $299 version. It only requires one M-Card.

https://www3.tivo.com/store/boxes.do

TiVo® HD DVR $299.99

The ultimate HDTV DVRall-in-one cable box replacement 
Works with basic cable or digital cable using CableCARDs
Control Cable TV with pause, rewind, fast-forward slow-mo 
*Record 20 hours *in HD (or up to 180 hours in SD) 
Record two shows at once in HD* 
Easily expand your storage capacity 

TiVo® Series3 HD DVR $599.99

World's only THX-certified DVR 
Control cable TV with pause, rewind, fast-forward slo-mo 
*Record 32 hours *in HD (or up to 300 hours in SD) 
Record two shows at once in HD* 
Easily expand your storage capacity  
*Premium backlit, programmable TiVo® Glo remote *


----------



## cramer

An installation FAQ that doesn't even mention "firmware update"? Or does that need it's own sticky?

Tivo's "The CableCARD is Getting a Firmware Update"; bottom line (literally):
_If the process takes more than 40 minutes, or the update stops and then restarts, the firmware update failed and the CableCARD is unusable. If the installer is not there, you will need to contact your cable provider to get a replacement CableCARD installed and activated._ The Tivo (TivoHD at least) will timeout after an hour, at which point the update will be attempted again. From what I've seen and read elsewhere, Tivo's information is spot on. (I have a CC that's been looping for hours. Someone else reported waiting 24hrs and it never working.)

It shouldn't take long if it's actually going to work. The firmware file(s) aren't that big... at 1544Kbps (OOB speed) up to 38.9Mbps (QAM256), it should take seconds to transfer and minutes to flash. The longest wait will be for the head end of the transmission loop.


----------



## philhu

I just had 2 TivoHD get cable cards. M-cards.

The installer was here all of 15 minutes. The cards are starting to show up at Comcast. This guy only had my cablecard installs and didnt want to do 4 s-cards, so he 'stole' 2 m-cards from inventory. He says they are hoarding them right now here in Boston as they do not have that many.

The cablecard was brandnew, in the boxes, and had the latest firmware, no fw upgrade occurred.

That in itself, saves me $2.75 X 2 a month or $5.50!!! I only pay for 2 cards, not 4

The m-card seems to work just fine. The interesting thing is it has an extra screen, called network. It is disabled but it looks like a way to get 2-way communications from tivo to comcast, current not used.

The picture is great. HD is superb.

Tivo mentioned somewhere a dongle 'soon' to do the 2 way when it is available, that would be cool.

Also, and this is a surprise. I kept the comcast dvr to get on demand. I noticed that the dvr rental went to HALF marked 'Tivo Leads' on the work order sheet.

Now, I wonder if I upgrade that box to tivo software, just becoming available, whether it can MRV like my 2 TivoHD units.


----------



## cramer

philhu said:


> The interesting thing is it has an extra screen, called network. It is disabled but it looks like a way to get 2-way communications from tivo to comcast, current not used.


Interesting. The cablecard is supposed to be able to handle the DOCSIS protocol side of the DSG (Digital Setup Gateway) using the host's RF modulator -- which the tivo doesn't have. On the SA card I've looked at, the network information shows up within the diag screen.



> Now, I wonder if I upgrade that box to tivo software, just becoming available, whether it can MRV like my 2 TivoHD units.


Yes, it will have multi-room viewing, but it's not exactly like Tivo. Tivo transfer content to the local drive before playback -- the playback tivo has to download the entire thing first. The moto stb's live stream content.


----------



## jlb

philhu said:


> I just had 2 TivoHD get cable cards. M-cards.
> 
> The installer was here all of 15 minutes. The cards are starting to show up at Comcast. This guy only had my cablecard installs and didnt want to do 4 s-cards, so he 'stole' 2 m-cards from inventory. He says they are hoarding them right now here in Boston as they do not have that many.
> 
> The cablecard was brandnew, in the boxes, and had the latest firmware, no fw upgrade occurred.
> 
> That in itself, saves me $2.75 X 2 a month or $5.50!!! I only pay for 2 cards, not 4
> 
> The m-card seems to work just fine. The interesting thing is it has an extra screen, called network. It is disabled but it looks like a way to get 2-way communications from tivo to comcast, current not used.
> 
> The picture is great. HD is superb.
> 
> Tivo mentioned somewhere a dongle 'soon' to do the 2 way when it is available, that would be cool.
> 
> Also, and this is a surprise. I kept the comcast dvr to get on demand. I noticed that the dvr rental went to HALF marked 'Tivo Leads' on the work order sheet.
> 
> Now, I wonder if I upgrade that box to tivo software, just becoming available, whether it can MRV like my 2 TivoHD units.


Phil,

Any specific things you said when you made your appointment related to the M-Cards?

At my local office in Newburyport, they say they don't have M-Cards, but I don't buy that. Do all the greater Boston Comcast outlets source their cards from one inventory location?

I would love an M card, but I will be ok with two S cards......


----------



## mrlajoie

I just finished with the Comcast TiVo Beta here in New Hampshire and according to everything I have seen so far there is NO networking support on this unit. Perhaps it wasn't activated for the Beta, but I would think that was something they would want us to work on.
The Comcast TiVo has MOST of the functionality of the TiVo HD unit and the menus are setup ALMOST the same way. For people who want/need to retain VOD and appreciate the TiVo interface it is a good choice.


----------



## aidtopia

Is it possible that a mistake made at the dispatch end would require replacing the physical CableCard? After four techs and two phone calls, Comcast now claims that, because they made a typo early on, my card cannot be properly paired or authorized. They want me to take time off work, bring the card into a service center and exchange it for a new one and then start all over. This sounds fishy to me. Shouldn't they be able to completely reinitialize the card?


----------



## kunikos

aidtopia said:


> Is it possible that a mistake made at the dispatch end would require replacing the physical CableCard? After four techs and two phone calls, Comcast now claims that, because they made a typo early on, my card cannot be properly paired or authorized. They want me to take time off work, bring the card into a service center and exchange it for a new one and then start all over. This sounds fishy to me. Shouldn't they be able to completely reinitialize the card?


Why wouldn't they just truck roll a tech out to exchange and install the card for you? I have yet to hear any CSR ask me to bring anything into a service center.

Anyway, if they are willing to exchange the card at the service center that's all fine and dandy but if they won't pair, validate or activate it over the phone then it's useless.


----------



## david4788

aidtopia said:


> Is it possible that a mistake made at the dispatch end would require replacing the physical CableCard? After four techs and two phone calls, Comcast now claims that, because they made a typo early on, my card cannot be properly paired or authorized. They want me to take time off work, bring the card into a service center and exchange it for a new one and then start all over. This sounds fishy to me. Shouldn't they be able to completely reinitialize the card?


The first part about the card being entered incorrectly is on par with what I have seen and expereinced. The second part about you having to bring the card in is hogwash, unless you picked it up there to begin with.


----------



## dwit

I have a Tivo HD with a Comcast(Atlanta, GA) Motorola M-Card which was successfully installed(first try by tech) 3 weeks ago. I have the digital starter package, no premium channels.

I decided to give Comcast voip a try and in the process, I will be given an upgraded Digital Preferred package with HBO. They will be here next week to install the phone service.

I figure the tech and I were lucky the first time and am wary that if we have to go through the cable card installation procedure again, things may get fouled up.

Question: Will the cable card need to be reconfigured and basically taken through the process similar to the original cable card installation or will I just be able to tune the additional digital channels and HBO?


----------



## drhankz

dwit said:


> Question: Will the cable card need to be reconfigured and basically taken through the process similar to the original cable card installation or will I just be able to tune the additional digital channels and HBO?


The Premium Channel Upgrade will be 100% Transparent
to you. The Encryption Keys for those channels will be sent
to your "M" Card and the channels will magically appear.


----------



## dwit

drhankz said:


> The Premium Channel Upgrade will be 100% Transparent
> to you. The Encryption Keys for those channels will be sent
> to your "M" Card and the channels will magically appear.


Thank you. I certainly hope that is so. I guess I'll find out next week(Feb.5).

Thanks again.


----------



## drhankz

dwit said:


> Thank you. I certainly hope that is so. I guess I'll find out next week(Feb.5).
> 
> Thanks again.


I am having my 6th "M" card installed today..

I have been there and done that as they say


----------



## guava

_Currently, the software in the original Series 3 box does not support the multistream capabilities of the MCard, so you will need two CableCARDs, either SCard or MCard, to have full support._
-from FAQ

-This may be wrong. I talked to support who said that this is harware not software. The person I talked to said there is only one tuner per cardslot.

Thanks


----------



## dwit

drhankz said:


> The Premium Channel Upgrade will be 100% Transparent
> to you. The Encryption Keys for those channels will be sent
> to your "M" Card and the channels will magically appear.


10:40am. No additional digital channels yet. Additional digital channels should have begun today. I guess around noon I'll try a restart. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll have to call Comcast.

I know I can just wait and ask the tech-and maybe I will-but I don't expect much help in that matter from her/him.

Maybe I'll try messing with the cable card settings, but don't want to screw up what I already have.


----------



## drhankz

dwit said:


> 10:40am. No additional digital channels yet. Additional digital channels should have begun today. I guess around noon I'll try a restart. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll have to call Comcast.
> 
> I know I can just wait and ask the tech-and maybe I will-but I don't expect much help in that matter from her/him.
> 
> Maybe I'll try messing with the cable card settings, but don't want to screw up what I already have.


It is possible Comcast is ASLEEP at the Switch.

Someone at the NOC [Network Operations Center] does 
need to do some data entry to make it happen. Then it
probably needs to be manually pushed out to your card. 
Therefore - two manual operations from Comcast.


----------



## dwit

drhankz said:


> It is possible Comcast is ASLEEP at the Switch.
> 
> Someone at the NOC [Network Operations Center] does
> need to do some data entry to make it happen. Then it
> probably needs to be manually pushed out to your card.
> Therefore - two manual operations from Comcast.


Thanks.

Just spoke with Comcast and was told that since this was ordered as a bundle with the telephone service, when the tech communicates that the work order is complete(2-5 appointment today), new channels will be activated.

Will just have to wait until then.


----------



## drhankz

dwit said:


> new channels will be activated.
> 
> Will just have to wait until then.


MAKES Complete sense to me.

That is how they operate.


----------



## dwit

drhankz said:


> MAKES Complete sense to me.
> 
> That is how they operate.


All is well. Everything is working as you explained.

Thanks again.


----------



## drhankz

dwit said:


> All is well. Everything is working as you explained.
> 
> Thanks again.


Congratulations - I was WAITING for your Feedback.

Time to Celebrate


----------



## dsa1971

I have two Tivo HD boxes and FIOS TV. I ordered 4 Single Stream Cable Cards from Verizon on Monday. Verizon Rep said they would mail them to me and it would take 3-5 days. Friday I received a phone call to confirm my appointment for an installer to come out on Saturday with a window of 8am to 5pm. This was news to me and a 9 hour window is riduculous. The installer arrived at 4:20pm. He had never installed a cablecard in any device before. He did not know anything about tivo. He called a co-worker for help which was of minor help. I knew more about how to set things up than he did. He did add an attenuator to one of my cable lines. Currently, my HDTV seems to be functioning with both cablecards. My other tube TV is having some issues. The cablecard in slot 2 seemed to be having some problems. After removing it Tivo seems to be working better. I may do some more diagnostics with it later. For now, I will stick with the one cablecard. I can't believe how difficult the install was and how sensitive the cablecards setup seem to be.


----------



## Thanatos Z06

CableCard self install TivoHD with Comcast service ... not all channels viewable ...
It took 4 calls and a quick look at the Tivo support page for troubleshooting this issue, but I finally got things working.
The issue seems to be that most Comcast phone support technicians DO NOT have the authority to send the right signal to the Cable Card. Most of them dismissed me with a simple "we resent the signal", however, they CAN NOT send the proper signal!
In Messages & Settings --> Settings --> Remote, CableCard, & Devices --> CableCard Decoder --> Configure CableCard 1 (Multi-Stream) --> CableCARD Menu --> Conditional Access in the mid section of this screen is an "AUTH" code. If you have a multi-stream card and they sent the wrong signal (default) it will read "MP" here and should read "S".
YOU MUST INFORM THEM OF THIS SO THE "LEAD" WILL SEND THE CORRECT SIGNAL.
Check the "Cannot View Encrypted Channels" portion of the Tivo FAQ for more info:
http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/La...-5fb6-4ed8-ac41-d8cd0d5c0824&anchor=undefined
I hope this saves other people from the hours of frustration I went through!
Regards


----------



## Thanatos Z06

In my previous post I had info regarding my troubles getting TivoHD and Comcast CableCARD (multi-stream) functioning.
As I read through some of this thread I can see that there are numerous issues. I thought I should add some of my observations and revelations the Comcast tech on my last call shared with me.

Until recently Comcast did not allow customers/users to install CableCARDs themselves. There is a concern about 'damaging' the cards with the wrong setup. My final call revealed that MOST of the phone support personnel HAVE NOT been trained for CableCARD support and are NOT familiar with the TIVO hardware. Additionally, only the "lead" support person can send the PROPER signal to the CableCARD to set it up properly (for multi-stream cards).
The support tech I spoke with admitted that she had not received training and that the 4 hour class had not yet been scheduled.

I bring all of this up to warn readers of this thread that they should not accept the simple "we are resetting the card" info from the support tech and should MAKE SURE to have the "lead" send the signal as this "advanced setting" is not availble to the standard phone techs. Since they can't send the proper signal, your problem will NOT be solved.

Again, I must point out that I was able to find the appropriate info/codes to tell the tech (who told her "lead") at the Tivo support page:
http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/La...-5fb6-4ed8-ac41-d8cd0d5c0824&anchor=undefined

Best of luck to you all ... next step for me is to 'enhance' the storage of my TivoHD!


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## Kracko

I am so frustrated with TWC right now.

I called to say I had a Tivo HD. The operator said to go to a local store and pick up two cable cards to activate it.

I went and picked them up. 

Today I tried to install them and while I get 2-13 and the HD equivalents, I can receive no other channels.

I called and was practically scolded for picking up the cable cards. Now EVERY operator I call tells me I have to have a tech come out on Wednesday to install them. I have explained that they are already installed but that doesn't matter...they still want to send a tech.

I know it's only 3 days but their incompetence is so frustrating.


----------



## cwoody222

A friend of mine is having her THIRD installer visit today to try to get working CableCARDs in her TiVoHD.

Isn't there a TiVo phone number she can have handy so the cable installer can talk to TiVo CableCARD experts directly?

NEVERMIND... after 3 visits, her CableCARDs are working now!


----------



## musictoo

A couple of things I found out this past week (TWC)... For an S3 you cannot mix S cards and M cards. The TW installer came without enough of one or the other. Also the person the tech speaks with typically works with the very last layer of the CC setup on their end. I was on my 4th set of cards when They figured out that the cards we were using were not "staged" correctly. His words. Apparently the cards are in a TW database and have information associated with them based on what NOC they are distributed from. Getting that corrected as at least a layer or two above the person the installer was speaking with.


----------



## richsadams

Kracko said:


> I am so frustrated with TWC right now.
> 
> I called to say I had a Tivo HD. The operator said to go to a local store and pick up two cable cards to activate it.
> 
> I went and picked them up.
> 
> Today I tried to install them and while I get 2-13 and the HD equivalents, I can receive no other channels.
> 
> I called and was practically scolded for picking up the cable cards. Now EVERY operator I call tells me I have to have a tech come out on Wednesday to install them. I have explained that they are already installed but that doesn't matter...they still want to send a tech.
> 
> I know it's only 3 days but their incompetence is so frustrating.


Dear TWC...left hand, meet right hand.  How frustrating!

It sounds like you have two "S" or single-stream cable cards. (If you have "M" or multi-stream cable cards you need only one.) As indicated on the cable card installation sheet supplied with your TiVo (or from these instructions) you not only need to insert your cable cards but have them activated/initialized. That entails calling TWC and reading them the appropriate numbers from the cable card menu setup screen. Once that's done they will activate them and you'll be able to see all of your subscribed channels.

Be sure to follow the directions carefully...installing and activating slot one first and then slot two. (Or in the case of a single "M" cable card, slot one.)

You could try calling them again to do that but if they continue to give you grief, it might be best to let them do it. Good luck and let us know how it goes. :up:


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## Kracko

Well the installer came by yesterday and installed the one M card I had, successfully. I was actually surprised. I'll be returning that POS Motorola box and the second cable card to the nearby office. Good riddance.


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## richsadams

Kracko said:


> Well the installer came by yesterday and installed the one M card I had, successfully. I was actually surprised. I'll be returning that POS Motorola box and the second cable card to the nearby office. Good riddance.


And now you can relax.  Maybe watch some TV!


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## bsporl

I have an S3 and two cable cards. For some strange reason the 1st card matches my cable subscription (expanded-basic) and the 2nd card sees all channels, including the premiums. 

Is there a way to tell the S3 to record premiums on the 2nd card and all other stuff on the 1st card?


----------



## ah30k

bsporl said:


> I have an S3 and two cable cards. For some strange reason the 1st card matches my cable subscription (expanded-basic) and the 2nd card sees all channels, including the premiums.
> 
> Is there a way to tell the S3 to record premiums on the 2nd card and all other stuff on the 1st card?


No.


----------



## Enforcer

Wanted to give my two cents here. Im in San Antonio and use TWC. When I called to make an appt to get my cable cards installed they told me it was gonna cost $52 for the truck roll. I was kinda mad about this but hey, what are you gonna do? So that night i took the TWC dvr's back and the nice person at the TWC store told me that the TWC store on 410 and Blanco will give me a cable card for installation. No need for a truck roll. So, the next morning i went there and sure enough, they gave me an M card. I took that baby home, installed it in the TivoHD and I received partial success. I could get the local HD tier, but none of the other HD channels. I must say, the TWC rep on the phone was awesome. He insisted on staying on the phone the entire time during my CC install. We were on the phone for about 45 minutes. After he tried several things and talked to several people, I still wasnt getting anything other than the local HD. Now I know about SDV in San Antonio, but there were still a few HD channels that were black. After he tried everything he knew, he made a truck roll appointment. I had read all the Tivo faq's and I tried to tell him it was billing/acct issue, but that didnt seem to help. About 2 hours after hanging up, another really nice guy from TWC called and asked me about the situation. I explained to him the problem and he said he recognized the problem. The CC wasnt authorized properly to see those other HD channels. He did his thing and bam. Im watching HD channels (well, the non-sdv ones anyway). 

So if you live in San Antonio, you can pick up the cards and do the install. And there shoudnt be a need for a truck roll. 

Love Tivo, its my first and I can't understand why it took me so many years to get it.


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## richsadams

Enforcer said:


> Wanted to give my two cents here. <snip>
> Love Tivo, its my first and I can't understand why it took me so many years to get it.


Thanks much for the post! :up:

It continues to amaze me that cableco's are so adamant about a truck roll for CC installations and invariably when the tech arrives it will be his or her first time doing anything like that. And even then they'll try to ignore the instruction sheet and do it "their way" until it doesn't work and then they'll try it "our" way. 

Enjoy!


----------



## michael new

I seem to be having this issue 11. I have my CableCARD(s) installed, but some of the channels I'm supposed to get are grey myself Im wondering will running Guided Setup again make any differance and will it do anything to the card and make me have to pair it again? Will pairing be as difficult as the first time? Meaning if I need to call Comcast again to let them know Im missing channels will I need to go thru the whole process again or is it just a matter of them sending the new signal and it will work?


----------



## richsadams

Reports are all over the board, but many people have been successful with calling their cableco and having them re-pair or "re-hit" their cable cards. It seems to all depend on the company, the day and if the planets are aligned. 

It's certainly worth a try. Re-running guided setup afterward may or may not be needed...it depends on what channels TiVo is set up to receive. If they haven't changed, you shouldn't have to do anything else.

It looks like you have a TiVo HD. If they have to do a truck roll and you have two "S" cards you might see if they can bring an "M" (multistream) card...one less failure point. Actually, have them bring several of whatever they have as there are numerous reports of techs going through as many as a half-dozen before they found one that worked.


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## TheLongshot

Well, my CC install with Cox was mostly a cluster. I won't get into the CSR issues (three times I was told the service guys were going to show up, they were wrong), but the guys were here for over two hours trying to get two different M-Cards to work, but all I was getting were the analog channels and the HD locals. They finally gave up and installed two S-Cards and that went smoothly.

Course, the guy said that I probably need to exchange it for an M-Card eventually. It sounds like they are trying really hard to phase out S-Cards.

Jason


----------



## richsadams

TheLongshot said:


> Well, my CC install with Cox was mostly a cluster. I won't get into the CSR issues (three times I was told the service guys were going to show up, they were wrong), but the guys were here for over two hours trying to get two different M-Cards to work, but all I was getting were the analog channels and the HD locals. They finally gave up and installed two S-Cards and that went smoothly.
> 
> Course, the guy said that I probably need to exchange it for an M-Card eventually. It sounds like they are trying really hard to phase out S-Cards.
> 
> Jason


Welcome to the forum...too bad it's under such frustrating circumstances!  I'm going to ask a dumb question, but do you have a TiVo HD or the "original" TiVo Series3? Since this thread is the "_TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs > CableCARD installation FAQ_" I was just wondering if there was some confusion. The TiVo Series3's require two "S" or two "M" cable cards. However the TiVo HD can use 1 "M" card or two "S" cards for dual tuner capability. That said, I'm pretty sure you/they were trying the right setup for your TiVo, but you never know sometimes.

We were lucky enough to have working ("M" and "S") cable cards installed the very first try on our Series3 and TiVo HD. However there are numerous reports on this forum and many others of techs going through as many as a dozen cable cards before finding one or two that work.

Glad to hear that things are finally good though. :up:


----------



## TheLongshot

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum...too bad it's under such frustrating circumstances!  I'm going to ask a dumb question, but do you have a TiVo HD or the "original" TiVo Series3? Since this thread is the "_TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs > CableCARD installation FAQ_" I was just wondering if there was some confusion. The TiVo Series3's require two "S" or two "M" cable cards. However the TiVo HD can use 1 "M" card or two "S" cards for dual tuner capability. That said, I'm pretty sure you/they were trying the right setup for your TiVo, but you never know sometimes.


Sorry, it was a TivoHD.

They seemed to have pretty decent experience in installing cards. They were telling me that they've been getting a lot of requests for CableCards in the past few months. I'm guessing from all the deals on Tivos lately.

And yes, everything is working fine now. I've actually been on the forum for a few weeks now, but this was the first time I actually have had something to post.

Jason


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## tetranz

Hi all

I've read through this thread and hope this is the right place for this question.

My basic question is: Does the Tivo need to be activated and connected to the internet or phone for the installer to be able to do his thing?

I just bought a new Tivo Series3 from Amazon for a new house and new Comcast service. Comcast is coming the day after tomorrow. I've just purchased a year of Tivo service but haven't even unpacked the Tivo yet.

The house has had Comcast before but satellite more recently and there needs to be some rewiring to get the cable to where the Tivo and TV is.

I'm also getting broadband internet from Comcast but I'm getting the self installation kit (which they said the installer is bringing) so I won't have internet when the installer is there. I wouldn't expect him to wait around while I mess about getting my router etc going so ... he will be attempting to setup 2 cable cards on a Tivo S3 which has never been connected to the internet and will not have an internet connection available at the time. Is this a problem? That might be a silly question 

I guess I could hook it up tomorrow here in the old house and at least get the Tivo online to update firmware and activate or whatever it needs to do. I could try it with TV from the antenna. Alternatively, I guess I could connect it to the phone line temporarily at the new place. My plan was to get a wireless network going later that day after the installer has left.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm in New Hampshire. I only just read here about the Comcast Tivo which may have been a possibility if I'd known about it.

Thanks
Ross


----------



## guitarded

just remember everyone....cable company know nothing about cable cards! NOTHING!


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## richsadams

tetranz said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've read through this thread and hope this is the right place for this question.
> 
> My basic question is: Does the Tivo need to be activated and connected to the internet or phone for the installer to be able to do his thing? Ross


Hi Ross and welcome to the forum. :up:

The best thing to do is to get your new TiVo activated prior to the cable card installation. It'll need to be done and that will save some waiting around time for the cableco tech.

You can use a phone line to activate it no problem. If you have cable or an antenna you can run guided setup. You'll need to run it again after the cable cards are installed anyway. Doing everything using a phone line will take a bit longer is all. TiVo only downloads a few days of programming initially and it will likely download an update in the next few days. Over the next few days it will download all of the program guide. It will be a bit sluggish for the first da or two while it indexes the info and then things will be normal. Everything is automatic so there's nothing to do or worry about.

Once it's been activated simply give the cableco tech the cable card installation sheet. Contrary to some poor experiences quite a few cable techs do know what they're doing. They may need to be reminded that they need to install slot one FIRST and pair it, then the cable card in slot two. Some may try to do both at once which won't work is all. Our most recent Comcast installer had only installed two cable cards previously and never in a TiVo but with a little encouragement he did just fine. The whole thing took about an hour with most of his time spent waiting on hold while they paired the cable cards at their HQ.

After you get your broadband up and running it's a very simple matter to go into TiVo's setup and change the settings from the phone line to broadband.

Best of luck and enjoy your new digs!


----------



## richsadams

guitarded said:


> just remember everyone....cable company know nothing about cable cards! NOTHING!


I've read a number of your posts and they are...how do I say this gently...well, mostly erroneous or flat out wrong. As a "newbie" here I know you mean well, but giving out poor or bad advice isn't helpful and may complicate other's situations. Take the time to learn about the subject matter before jumping in and your credibility will grow.


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## cableguy763

guitarded said:


> just remember everyone....cable company know nothing about cable cards! NOTHING!


I beg to differ. You know nothing about grammar


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## aaronwt

guitarded said:


> just remember everyone....cable company know nothing about cable cards! NOTHING!


What cable company? FIOS and Comcast here has done rather well with the cable cards I've had installed. Epecially the last install from Comcast. They installed both CC in a TiVoHD at the same time and the tech was out of here lickety split with everything working perfectly. If they didn't know anything about cable cards then they wouldn't have been able to install them.


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## tetranz

Thanks Rich. I take it over today and get it going with the phone and antenna.


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## richsadams

tetranz said:


> Thanks Rich. I take it over today and get it going with the phone and antenna.


Sounds good. All should go well. Keep us posted. :up:


----------



## tetranz

richsadams said:


> Sounds good. All should go well. Keep us posted. :up:


Well ... we haven't quite archived success yet. Unfortunately there is very poor cell phone coverage here. The installer's Nextel didn't work at all so I let him use my Verizon. After waiting on hold for about 30 minutes he said they "almost had it configured" but then the signal dropped out. Then he tried the wire phone and had to wait another 30 minutes or so. We went through guided setup again and got to the point where the Tivo needed to connect to the phone which wasn't going to work because he wanted to stay on the line. At that point he said everything was done at the Comcast end so I said I'd try it again. He'd been here about three hours and we both needed to leave.

I now have the internet setup. Self install went smoothly and I have wireless going so I can use that instead of the phone. But ... I don't think the cable cards are setup properly. We're only getting basic cable channels. If I restart the Tivo it always comes up with the "information for installers" screen with host info etc on the cards. I'll try it again today. The installer inserted both cards at the same time before I had a chance to suggest otherwise. I wonder if it's worth me pulling the cards out and going through the steps for installers sheet property where you're supposed to insert one and then repeat steps 4 to 7.

Are there any magic words I should use if I need to call Comcast that might point them in the right direction?

Cheers
Ross


----------



## richsadams

tetranz said:


> Well ... we haven't quite archived success yet. <snip>


Hi Ross. Boy that sounds frustrating! Yes, you will need to have Comcast "pair" or "hit" your cable cards (or "re-pair" or "re-hit" them).

First, the tech shouldn't have tried to install both cable cards at the same time...it will not work. They have to pair the first card (which mostly involves installing it, and then the tech calling in the numbers on the install screen) and then pair the second card the same way. For a Series3 the first cable card goes into slot 1 (the bottom slot), then the second card goes into number 2 (the top slot) as seen here. On a TiVo HD the first card goes into the slot marked "1" (the right slot) and then the second into the slot marked "2" as seen here (or in the case of a multi-stream or "M" card, slot number 1 _only_ for the TiVo HD). Cable card installation instructions can also be found at TiVo.com for the Series3 and the TiVo HD.

All of this info and more can be found on the first post of this sticky of course.

There probably isn't anything you can do at the moment other than getting another appointment. You could try pulling the cards and installing them in the correct order, but it's likely they will have to be re-paired/re-hit. Most Comcast offices won't allow you to pair the cable cards yourself (although, again, it's usually just a matter of reading the numbers on the screen). They usually insist on a truck roll. So best bet is to call them and tell them that you need your cable cards reinstalled. Be sure you give the tech the TiVo installation guideline sheet. If he/she follows each step properly it will be fine.

Nice job on getting the broadband up and running!

Good luck and hang in there...it will work!


----------



## jfh3

Folks - this is an FAQ, not a discussion forum.

Please try to keep posts on topic.


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## dig_duggler

I suppose this _could_ be a FAQ...

One of my cablecards seems to have lost authorization (series 3). I've tried to get them to reauthorize/rehit/repair it (the SubExpireTime is the day it quit working  ) but after 4 failed attempts they claim it is the card and they have to do a truck roll. My company doesn't have the best track record with cablecard problems and the answer is always a truck roll. Probably not much different from the incompetence many here face.

My question: Is there any reason to power down the device when replacing a 'bad' card? The reboot procedure is over 5 minutes and can make for some awkward silence  Or can I just swap the card, have the tech call in the appropriate numbers and wait to see encrypted channels?


----------



## Cherylabq

I FINALLY got my second TiVo HD Series 3 WORKING. After two TiVos...I kind of see a pattern of why I wasn't getting channels on some of my tuners. It took about four calls this time to finally get someone on the phone who would be patient with my assessment of the situation. So...Here are the SECRETS to hopefully get your TiVo running:

*First, make sure Comcast has matched the cablecards to the correct host IDs.* You can pull out the cards yourself and write down the cablecard numbers. Then go into the Messages and Settings menu. Select Account & System Information menu. Then, the CableCARD Decoders menu. Select Configure CableCARD 1 and then CableCARD Menu. Look for the Host ID Screen (the name is different for Multistream and Singlestream Scientific Atlanta cards). Write down the Host ID number for CableCARD 1 (with the number on the card). Do the same for CableCARD 2. The numbers can get screwed up when the Comcast Rep enters them. If this fails to get your channels working...

*Make SURE the Hierarchy of your Comcast equipment is listed correctly on your account. *I will try to order this in layman's terms from what I wrote down after I convinced my Comcast Rep to check the equipment order:
*
Comcast Hierarchy*

1. HD DVRs must be listed FIRST!!
2. Non HD DVR boxes next
3. HD cableboxes (without a DVR)
4. Digital Converter (which she said were regular cable boxes)
5. Modem (for internet access)
6. Phone service (I think it was an EMTA for those getting Comcast phone service)
7. Cablecards

If you are still missing channels on one or more of your tuners, *make sure the TiVo rate is linked to your account* (I'm not sure how they do this, I just know not having it messed up my first TiVo HD Series 3).

I hope this helps everyone!

A working TiVo HD Series 3 rocks!


----------



## MikeAndrews

Dunno if this is where to post it....but I have two M CableCARDs working in my old Series 3 HD Tivo on Comcast Waukegan (far north of Chicago.) This when I was very, very wary of surviving another battle with clueless employees at Comcast.

The installer was given only one card and says that's all they ever get. When he saw I'd need two he had to drive to get the second from another tech.

So after the cable was made live, and my house was prewired in the first place...

I had two sessions of get the card serial number, wait 30 minutes for the one guy who knows how they work at Comcast to call, with the run for the second card in between. Each time he had to "hit it again" for me to see premium channels.

By following the info here an the TiVo FAQ I ended up with three long trips through guided install (which makes no sense for the second card).

I was panicked at first that the Series 3 didn't work with the M card. Reading here and at Tivo I found that's not true. 

My scheduled 8-10 install window ran until 2:00PM.

The tech was good. He rang my doorbell at like 8:20 as I was hanging up the phone with his boss telling me he was a mile away. I could see why he hates CableCARDs, but it would have gone a lot better if they had listened to me and given him TWO CableCARDs. I can imagine what would happen if he had a busy upscale customer looking over his shoulder screaming he didn't know what he was doing. (He did.)

I transfered all of Season Passes from my HD DTivo. The bad news: This morning the Series 3 was dead and locked up. I had to power cycle it. I'll accept if it had a brain hemorrhages at the end of a busy day, but I hope it's more reliable than that.

I like finally really getting channels in HD. +

Oh. One issue. The TiVo doesn't have programming for WTTW-DT. It shows "To be announced." So my Season Pass for Newshour, and I assume other PBS shows, doesn't work. What does it take for the guide data to get fixed? 

Because mine is already telling me it'll be out of space by the weekend, with the info in the other FAQ, I just ordered a 1TB external hard drive setup with a Hitachi drive.

I'll be cancelling DirecTV in a day or two.


----------



## thilt

I have an M card and an S card installed in a Series 3. I am a Charter customer. I finally now receive all channels fine (including HBO, Starz and Showtime) except one. It's a Nickelodeon teen channel called THE N (104 in my area). When I tune to it, I get video for a tenth of a second then the gray and black "Call your cable company " screen. On the Conditional Access screens, it appears that neither card has been validated. Questions:

1. Does it make sense that I would get all the premium channels except one in this scenario? (i.e. is lack of "validation" my problem?)

2. A CSR last night told me validation required a tech visit. I've had 4 tech visits and 6 cards installed in the last two weeks to get me this far. I'm inclined not to schedule another visit for a channel I won't watch much of anyway. Shouldn't I be able to "validate" by phone and, if so, can anyone help me with some buzzwords or phrases to use with the CSR to get this accomplished?

Thanks.


----------



## husky55

dig_duggler said:


> I suppose this _could_ be a FAQ...
> 
> One of my cablecards seems to have lost authorization (series 3). I've tried to get them to reauthorize/rehit/repair it (the SubExpireTime is the day it quit working  ) but after 4 failed attempts they claim it is the card and they have to do a truck roll. My company doesn't have the best track record with cablecard problems and the answer is always a truck roll. Probably not much different from the incompetence many here face.
> 
> My question: Is there any reason to power down the device when replacing a 'bad' card? The reboot procedure is over 5 minutes and can make for some awkward silence  Or can I just swap the card, have the tech call in the appropriate numbers and wait to see encrypted channels?


The reboot can take 5 min or longer, much longer depending on what you have on your HD or HDs. That makes your question even more relevant.

You do not need to reboot when you swap out the cable cards. But you have to reboot after the tech has done with his pairing and authorization of the card. And then do a guide setup again since your channel configuration has changed.


----------



## snaveca

I'm a Comcast customer in the SF Bay Area, just got a TivoHD.

I'm now on my 4th cable card install try (Mcard). The first three generated an error code of 161-38. 

Question: Does the Host ID change when you swap out the cable card? My Host ID has remained the same, although the Data ID is different each time a new cable card is inserted.

The Comcast phone rep told me the problem is with my Tivo and there's nothing wrong with the CCs.

I'm skeptical.


----------



## drhankz

snaveca said:


> I'm a Comcast customer in the SF Bay Area, just got a TivoHD.
> 
> I'm now on my 4th cable card install try (Mcard). The first three generated an error code of 161-38.
> 
> Question: Does the Host ID change when you swap out the cable card? My Host ID has remained the same, although the Data ID is different each time a new cable card is inserted.
> 
> The Comcast phone rep told me the problem is with my Tivo and there's nothing wrong with the CCs.
> 
> I'm skeptical.


Your Comcast Cable guy could be very right. That error code 
if from TiVo - not the M-Card.

Check with TiVo Tech Support - they answer the phone.


----------



## snaveca

drhankz said:


> Your Comcast Cable guy could be very right. That error code
> if from TiVo - not the M-Card.
> 
> Check with TiVo Tech Support - they answer the phone.


I talked to Tivo and they told me the Host ID stays the same regardless of switching out the CC.

So I'm off to do battle with Comcast.


----------



## drhankz

snaveca said:


> I talked to Tivo and they told me the Host ID stays the same regardless of switching out the CC.
> 
> So I'm off to do battle with Comcast.


TiVo should know - but one thing I know with my 5
other DVRs - NOT TiVo - Everytime a Cablecard is
removed and even inserted back into the same DVR
30 seconds later - THE PAIRING INFO CHANGES and
Comcast needs to do it all over again.


----------



## stewc

snaveca said:


> I'm a Comcast customer in the SF Bay Area, just got a TivoHD.
> 
> I'm now on my 4th cable card install try (Mcard). The first three generated an error code of 161-38.


This may sound odd, but if you get the card paired and authorized and this error code is your remaining issue, have you tried just letting it "bake" for 24 hrs? I saw this code on my THD during card install and first 12 or so hours afterwards, but I get all my channels so I let it alone and haven't seen that code again. In other threads, others have reported the same experience.


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## snaveca

stewc said:


> This may sound odd, but if you get the card paired and authorized and this error code is your remaining issue, have you tried just letting it "bake" for 24 hrs? I saw this code on my THD during card install and first 12 or so hours afterwards, but I get all my channels so I let it alone and haven't seen that code again. In other threads, others have reported the same experience.


I'm on the 4th CC now, no error code (yet). With the previous 3 cards, the error code came up before they could even be authorized or paired.

The current CC seems to be receiving info from the headend (EMM count keeps going up) but still isn't "authorized".

The last Comcast rep I spoke with sounded at least somewhat familiar with CCs and corrected the serial number of the card (which was incorrect in their system - no wonder the prior 3 calls produced no results. Ugh.). He resent the (HOPEFULLY) proper signals.

I'm going to let it sit overnight and see if that does any good. If not, I guess I'll spending Sunday on the phone with Comcast.


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## bdconn

I found this on the Tivo help forum:

As TiVo gets busy for downloading a lot of channel info in the setup stage, not while it's running normally, I don't think that could have been causing the case. And the Firmware Upgrade doesn't happen while it's running regularly. It displays a special message on screen and stop doing everything but upgrading firmware. So, this shouldn't be the case either. Moreover, the error of 161-38 indicates that that's caused by CableCARD, not TiVo. 
That being said, I am seeing exactly the same symptom - no single hitch after the first day. I am feeling uncomfortable with it but can't complain since no errors :-/ 

i would seem to indicate that after 24hours the card will settle down and stop giving the error.


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## bdconn

Hopefully a quick question: How should cablecards be physically handled? by that i mean should you hold them in your bare hands without danger of shorting them out. I only ask because the last tech that was at my house to install a CC just carried it in his hand, turning it over and over in his hands like it was a credit card.


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## cableguy763

bdconn said:


> Hopefully a quick question: How should cablecards be physically handled? by that i mean should you hold them in your bare hands without danger of shorting them out. I only ask because the last tech that was at my house to install a CC just carried it in his hand, turning it over and over in his hands like it was a credit card.


They are not that fragile. Have you ever messed with a pcmcia card? About the same size and feel.


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## snaveca

So after 3 more long calls with Comcast CSRs who were unable to get the CC initialized and paired I finally asked for a truck roll this morning. They were able to schedule one for this afternoon (very unusual!).

Tech showed up, I was a little concerned because he said he hadn't done a Tivo CC install in "a while", but had done quite a few in December.

They couldn't get the last CC I picked up from the Comcast office to work, so he tried one he had picked up at the warehouse that morning and VOILA, it worked like a charm.:up: Took about 10 minutes for the channels to show up, but once they did everything worked perfectly. 

His supervisor said that most of the cards customers pick up themselves don't seem to work. They don't know why but it seems to just be that way. The tech said he has had few problems with the cards they get from the warehouse.

He agreed that training on CC Tivo activation/pairing seems to be a low priority for the callcenters.

But all is sunshine and ponies now because I've got my TIVO back!

Edited to add:
The only thing the installer did that I DIDN'T do was call his dispatch center. I asked him why they didn't just give customers a dedicated number to call instead of making us call the 800 number and deal with often clueless reps, especially since there doesn't seem to be a high volume of Tivo users at the moment (he said they got a flood of Tivo CC installs right around Christmas but haven't had very many since then). He replied with a sheepish grin and a shoulder shrug. Can't really blame him.

Also, just to clarify, the Host ID NEVER changed from cable card to cable card (the Data ID did change). FIVE different cable cards. So if comcast tries to tell you that it should they are wrong.

Also, the installer confirmed that the 161-38 error is a cable card issue, not a Tivo issue.


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## fredfisher

Atlantic broadband in Florida told me they don't send installers for m cards

Atlantic broadband told me to pickup the m card for the TIVO HD and install myself

What are the steps that I have to take to get all the channels

Is it easy to do myself

Thank You

Fred


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## richsadams

fredfisher said:


> Atlantic broadband in Florida told me they don't send installers for m cards
> 
> Atlantic broadband told me to pickup the m card for the TIVO HD and install myself
> 
> What are the steps that I have to take to get all the channels
> 
> Is it easy to do myself
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Fred


Your TiVo came with a cable card installation sheet or you can find the instructions here. You'll need the cable card activation telephone number from your cable company so you can call in and give them the numbers that they're looking for. That will allow them to "pair" your cable card. (That's usually where people run into trouble as most cable companies don't want anyone but their techs calling in.) Other than that just follow the directions and you should be fine.

Once your cable card is properly set up, just run Guided Setup from the Settings menu and everything should be working.


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## gary325

Can anyone comment on the ability of the Original Series 3 and it's use of CableCards: either s-card OR m-card?
I do recall that the new Tivo HD units do make use of the m-cards (only one needed for both tuners) but the original Series 3 requires 2 s-cards or 2 m-cards to enable both tuners.
Did the Summer Update change this requirement?

I want to get ready for the Fall! Finally going to go CC + OTA

TWC in Rochester NY, home of the SDV experiment:down:


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## Brighton Line

Series 3 will require two cards, I beleive it is a hardware issue not software.
Tivo has discontinued the Series 3 in favor of the Tivo HD so I don't think you will eveer see the Series 3 using a single card.


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## gary325

Brighton Line said:


> Series 3 will require two cards, I beleive it is a hardware issue not software.
> Tivo has discontinued the Series 3 in favor of the Tivo HD so I don't think you will ever see the Series 3 using a single card.


TivoPony stated in the forums that it was technically possible, but the feature and investment in time did not justify the R&D. 

So I will have to get the two S or M-cards either way. I was hoping to reduce my already sky-high cable bill a little.

How about one card and continue with OTA HD? Would Tivo know that it would need to record form the CC for those channels that it cannot get from the OTA input? Or would it not record something because it was recording from the CC that which it could get from the OTA input?


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## richsadams

Not to change your thinking, but have you checked to see how much 2 CC's cost? Our first one is free and the second one is $1.50/mo. YMMV of course.


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## upatoi15

I've narrowed down my issue as not having the most up to date firmware on my cablecard with my Tivo HD. My cable company seems to give all their boxes firmware updates but the latest I have is from April 2007. Anybody know how to update the firmware??

Lee


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## drhankz

upatoi15 said:


> I've narrowed down my issue as not having the most up to date firmware on my cablecard with my Tivo HD. My cable company seems to give all their boxes firmware updates but the latest I have is from April 2007. Anybody know how to update the firmware??
> 
> Lee


That is your cable company's problem - not yours.


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## deecee

richsadams said:


> Your TiVo came with a cable card installation sheet or you can find the instructions here. You'll need the cable card activation telephone number from your cable company so you can call in and give them the numbers that they're looking for. That will allow them to "pair" your cable card. (That's usually where people run into trouble as most cable companies don't want anyone but their techs calling in.) Other than that just follow the directions and you should be fine.
> 
> Once your cable card is properly set up, just run Guided Setup from the Settings menu and everything should be working.


Thanks for the info but the "instructions here" link does not work for me.


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## richsadams

deecee said:


> Thanks for the info but the "instructions here" link does not work for me.


Thanks for catching that. I've updated the link on my original post (TiVo changes/updates their web pages now and then).

This is the current link to cable card installation instructions for a TiVo HD:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html


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## deecee

richsadams said:


> Thanks for catching that. I've updated the link on my original post (TiVo changes/updates their web pages now and then).
> 
> This is the current link to cable card installation instructions for a TiVo HD:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html


Thanks for the update.


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## jmaditto

TW is coming out tomorrow for my install so these instructions are great to have. :up: Wish me luck!


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## richsadams

jmaditto said:


> TW is coming out tomorrow for my install so these instructions are great to have. :up: Wish me luck!


Best of luck...but you shouldn't need it if they follow the directions. If they're installing an "M" card it's very straight forward; install in slot one and activate it. If they're installing two "S" cards, gently remind the tech that the slot 1 card needs to be installed and activated/paired first, then the second card in slot 2. Some try to do them both at the same time and that won't work. Let us know how it goes!


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## Bierboy

richsadams said:


> Not to change your thinking, but have you checked to see how much 2 CC's cost? Our first one is free and the second one is $1.50/mo. YMMV of course.


Mediacom here, and I have two cablecards set to be installed this Friday -- $1.99/month X 2.


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## Bierboy

richsadams said:


> Thanks for catching that. I've updated the link on my original post (TiVo changes/updates their web pages now and then).
> 
> This is the current link to cable card installation instructions for a TiVo HD:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html


If anyone wants instructions for the TiVo S3, they're here.


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## jmaditto

richsadams said:


> Best of luck...but you shouldn't need it if they follow the directions. If they're installing an "M" card it's very straight forward; install in slot one and activate it. If they're installing two "S" cards, gently remind the tech that the slot 1 card needs to be installed and activated/paired first, then the second card in slot 2. Some try to do them both at the same time and that won't work. Let us know how it goes!


They are installing a M card from SA, called it into the office with the CC ID and Host ID....TiVO sees the M card in slot one, they went through the guide setup even though I told them it wasn't necessary, still not decrypting channels...they are calling the office again. They are nice enough anyway.

Another update - trying a different M card with someone on the phone that knows what he is doing. Said something wasn't setup right before. This card is going through a firmware update right now and the last first did not even though they were the same July 2007 date. Fingers crossed...


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## jmaditto

After the techs called the CC Hotline for TWC and they were absolutely no help, they left and said I gave to call CS in the morning. It was soooo funny, the CC Hotline rep told them I needed a converter box to receive Discovery HD. They knew he was clueless so they just told him thanks for your help all is good and hung up. Bottom line, I'm receiving some channels but not others. I'm troubleshooting in diagnostics but could use some help.

The card says it is activated and I have my channel map from the headend. My signal for 845 (Discover Theater HD that is not switched) is 100, tuning status is Success, CableCARD 1 is operating normally, Channel list received is YES, OOB is locked. Seems like everythign should work. Any thoughts before a tech comes back sometime next week?

Thanks


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## jmaditto

Hope this helps someone. I finally found a screenshot on the Tivo site showing my CA Status should be "Ready" and I noticed mine was "Not Staged" Called TWC using a number that only the techs are to use, and she knew exactly what needed to happen. She called the headend to "stage" my card. Unfortunately no one was there but she is escalating my case and she says someone should be able to take care of in the morning from their office and not even bother me. They are going to call me once this is complete. Hopefully this is the answer.

So - Why didn't my two TWC installers know to look at the CA Status to begin with? Also, why didn't Tivo CableCard hotline know this either? Seems like someone would have known.  Anyway, more to come tomorrow.


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## richsadams

Sounds like a SNAFU all around.  Everyone _should_ have known...but as evidenced by the TWC office tech saying that you needed a STB (set top box) to receive _any_ programming...well. 

It sounds like you've solved the problem and hopefully TWC will be able to follow through but good luck and keep us posted! :up:


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## jmaditto

Of course nobody did anything this morning....I'm working with TW Cable Tech support. They tried to "pair" the card and we went through a hard reboot after the completed the pairing on their end with no luck. I could tell they did the pairing as my channel map was missing at first....then it showed up again but still not decrypting channels and the status is "not staged" Nobody seems to know what "not staged" means. Dang it! I was hoping to resolve this before going out of town. More to come as they continue to work with the headend and are calling back to test after they try something else. fingers crossed.


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## jmaditto

they gave up and are sending a tech out Mon.


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## jmaditto

What do yo know...TWC actually kept working on their end and resolved my issue. This time they said they paired the card with my device and restaged it. My guess is, given my status was "not staged" since Wed night, they never actually staged my card until now. All is good.


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## Bierboy

Well, so far this isn't going well. Mediacom techs, two of them. Neither have seen an S3 before. Trying to install both cards at the same time. Then they're saying that the cablecards probably won't work unless I have a direct cable connection to the TiVo (w/o any splits). Now they're up the pole behind my house....geesh.


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## jmaditto

break out the guide for a S3 within this thread. You have to coach them through the process on the TiVo side. Now, if you have pairing/staging issues on the cable network side there isn't much you can do but keep trying to find the right person. Good Luck!


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## Bierboy

jmaditto said:


> break out the guide for a S3 within this thread. You have to coach them through the process on the TiVo side. Now, if you have pairing/staging issues on the cable network side there isn't much you can do but keep trying to find the right person. Good Luck!


I showed/gave them the instructions and believe I've convinced them to install one at a time. We'll see, and I'll post updates here. Oh, and they're replacing my amplifier with another one that has wider bandwidth (?).


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## Bierboy

Bingo! They used one M card and one S card....installed them separately, and I'm in business!!


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## jmaditto

glad it worked out for you.


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## Bierboy

Well, I may have spoken too soon. After the techs left, I've been adjusting my channel list, and now I'm discovering that sometimes the channels are there, and sometimes they're not. I checked my cablecard diagnostics and all seems to be OK. Cable signal strength is 90+. But sometimes the channels are there and sometimes the screen is just black. What gives? I know they tested my signal strength and put in an amplifier just to make sure it was good. I just don't get it. There's no rhyme or reason to this...like I said, sometimes the channels are there and sometimes not. Phooey.


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## Bierboy

OK...what I've found in the MMI screens (conditional access screen) is that neither of my cards has been paired. I'm contacting Mediacom now to see what can be done and how soon.


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## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...If they're installing two "S" cards, gently remind the tech that the slot 1 card needs to be installed and activated/paired first, then the second card in slot 2. Some try to do them both at the same time and that won't work...


You don't want to put them in at the same instant but you do not need to activate the first one before inserting the second one. The first one simply needs to be recognized by the TiVo first before proceeding with the second. Those instructions are a way of idiot-proofing the the installation and god knows they need to do that. You don't want a neanderthal slamming both cards in at the same time. That is where the stories of the installations not working come from.

On both of my installations (one from an experienced Comcast tech and one a self-install) the first card was inserted and then second card was inserted after the first was recognized (about 20-30 seconds). Host and Data IDs were noted and then both cards were called in at the same time. Much more efficient but it assumes an experienced installer. Since that can't be assumed, the TiVo provided procedure is best but it is not required for any technical reasons.


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## kochsr

WOW came by today, popped in the M-card, and placed a call to the NOC. it worked in 2 minutes, no problem, even though the guy had never done it before with a tivo.


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## Bierboy

Well, I called Mediacom CS and they said everything looks good on "their end". They're sending someone out Monday or possibly tomorrow (if they have a cancellation). I'm hoping it's either a pairing error or flakey cards. They installed one M card and one S card (which TiVo says _*should*_ work), but perhaps if they install both as S cards that might help. I specifically asked for S cards when I put in the original order and they said no problem. But when the guy came today he said all he just takes what he's given. He didn't even know if they were S or M cards....turned out it was one of each. One thing I have noticed during this whole snafu -- I've never lost my unencrypted channels (local HD channels); they've always been there. All the other channels come and go.


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## richsadams

jlib said:


> You don't want to put them in at the same instant but you do not need to activate the first one before inserting the second one. The first one simply needs to be recognized by the TiVo first before proceeding with the second. Those instructions are a way of idiot-proofing the the installation and god knows they need to do that. <snip>


Exactly. :up:


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## richsadams

Bierboy said:


> <snip> One thing I have noticed during this whole snafu -- I've never lost my unencrypted channels (local HD channels); they've always been there. All the other channels come and go.


It does indeed sound like a pairing issue. One "M" and one "S" should be okay...or two "S" or two "M" should be fine too. But one card may be flaky. Have you noted which tuner is problematic or does it happen on both? Hopefully they'll get it right and thanks for the updates!


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## richsadams

jmaditto said:


> What do yo know...TWC actually kept working on their end and resolved my issue. This time they said they paired the card with my device and restaged it. My guess is, given my status was "not staged" since Wed night, they never actually staged my card until now. All is good.


Chalk one up for TWC (it's rare I know  ). Glad to hear all is well...now enjoy!


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## Bierboy

richsadams said:


> It does indeed sound like a pairing issue. One "M" and one "S" should be okay...or two "S" or two "M" should be fine too. But one card may be flaky. Have you noted which tuner is problematic or does it happen on both? Hopefully they'll get it right and thanks for the updates!


On the advice of a Mediacom tech who posts on DSLReports, I pulled both cards, then re-inserted them one at a time. The M card was in the bottom slot (#1), and, after inserting it, I tested the channels. I got nothing but my unencrypted QAM channels. Then I re-inserted CableCard #2, and, when I tested the channels on it, I got all my low end (2-78), nothing between 100 and 600, of course I got my unencrypted, but I also received the HD tier (which I wasn't getting with CableCard #1). #1 is the M card and #2 is the S card (if that makes any difference). So it appears the second tuner/card is "better" than the first, but still not receiving all the channels I should get. Odd thing is yesterday, before the techs left, we tested the channels on both cards and, as I recall, they seemed fine. But I'm sure we didn't check every channel, so I could have been missing some right off the bat with knowing until I checked thoroughly (after they left of course!).


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## richsadams

Bierboy said:


> On the advice of a Mediacom tech who posts on DSLReports, I pulled both cards, then re-inserted them one at a time. <snip>


So it sounds like at least the "M" card may have problems but that possibly neither are fully paired/activated.

Make sure the cableco CSR knows that the tech needs to bring more than a couple of cable cards with them when they return. There are stories here of techs going through as many as a half-dozen cable cards before finding one that works so I'd keep after them. And keep us posted!

Cableco techs usually check a limited number of channels; certain ones that are within each frequency band/set. If those work they'll declare everything working, but we all know that isn't always the case. Don't be afraid to have them do it up again, re-run TiVo's Guided Setup once more and then sit and click through various or all of the channels until you're satisfied. They may get antsy as most are contractors that get paid by the job, but it'll save you some time and aggravation in the long run. Offer them something to drink and have a good chat about something and who knows, they may become your best friend.


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## Bierboy

richsadams said:


> So it sounds like at least the "M" card may have problems but that possibly neither are fully paired/activated.
> 
> Make sure the cableco CSR knows that the tech needs to bring more than a couple of cable cards with them when they return. There are stories here of techs going through as many as a half-dozen cable cards before finding one that works so I'd keep after them. And keep us posted!
> 
> Cableco techs usually check a limited number of channels; certain ones that are within each frequency band/set. If those work they'll declare everything working, but we all know that isn't always the case. Don't be afraid to have them do it up again, re-run TiVo's Guided Setup once more and then sit and click through various or all of the channels until you're satisfied. They may get antsy as most are contractors that get paid by the job, but it'll save you some time and aggravation in the long run. Offer them something to drink and have a good chat about something and who knows, they may become your best friend.


Thanks Rich. I'm on hold now with Mediacom CS so I can make sure they bring several cards. In the meantime, I just pulled the cards so I could record the shows I want over this weekend.

EDIT #1: Boy, are these people dense. After telling me she would contact a supervisor to send a hit to the card, they put me on hold. She then comes back and says "They say it's not the cablecards, it's your signal strength." I said, no, they checked my signal strength yesterday, and it was just fine. I said, please send a hit to the cards and let me test the channels. Now I'm on hold again.....

EDIT #2: Oh, this just gets better and better. I'm on hold for another 10 minutes, she comes back and says two supervisors tell her "We don't troubleshoot TiVos." I tell her it's a registered Cable Labs device, and yes they should send me a hit. I've asked to speak to a supervisor now....and am on hold once again. This is turning into a frickin' nightmare....

EDIT #3: OK...they sent, what they called, strong hits to both cablecards, I noticed a couple different pieces of info (under conditional access and the DVR diagnostics screens), tested the channels received and am now repeating guided setup. We'll see if this "sticks".


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## captkirk685

Bierboy said:


> Thanks Rich. I'm on hold now with Mediacom CS so I can make sure they bring several cards. In the meantime, I just pulled the cards so I could record the shows I want over this weekend.
> 
> EDIT #1: Boy, are these people dense. After telling me she would contact a supervisor to send a hit to the card, they put me on hold. She then comes back and says "They say it's not the cablecards, it's your signal strength." I said, no, they checked my signal strength yesterday, and it was just fine. I said, please send a hit to the cards and let me test the channels. Now I'm on hold again.....
> 
> EDIT #2: Oh, this just gets better and better. I'm on hold for another 10 minutes, she comes back and says two supervisors tell her "We don't troubleshoot TiVos." I tell her it's a registered Cable Labs device, and yes they should send me a hit. I've asked to speak to a supervisor now....and am on hold once again. This is turning into a frickin' nightmare....
> 
> EDIT #3: OK...they sent, what they called, strong hits to both cablecards, I noticed a couple different pieces of info (under conditional access and the DVR diagnostics screens), tested the channels received and am now repeating guided setup. We'll see if this "sticks".


Just wondering how things turned out, I read your entire post and now I am left without an ending... I hope it worked for you


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## Bierboy

captkirk685 said:


> Just wondering how things turned out, I read your entire post and now I am left without an ending... I hope it worked for you


Well, here it is so far. From Saturday, after they re-initialized the cards, until tonight, everything was jim dandy. Then I came home after taking my wife out to dinner for her birthday, and I discovered USA HD had disappeared. Every other channel was fine.

So I spent some time with Mediacom CS on the phone tonight. He said that, from what he saw, my cards were "unresponsive". I asked what that meant, and he said they were dead. I said, no they're not...I'm getting all the channels I'm supposed to get except USA HD. He said that, as far as he knew, USA HD was fine on their system. He supposedly sent hits to both cards after I pulled them and reinstalled, but that made no difference. Tech is supposed to bring two new cards on Tuesday.

So the ending hasn't yet been written...


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## captkirk685

Bierboy said:


> Well, here it is so far. From Saturday, after they re-initialized the cards, until tonight, everything was jim dandy. Then I came home after taking my wife out to dinner for her birthday, and I discovered USA HD had disappeared. Every other channel was fine.
> 
> So I spent some time with Mediacom CS on the phone tonight. He said that, from what he saw, my cards were "unresponsive". I asked what that meant, and he said they were dead. I said, no they're not...I'm getting all the channels I'm supposed to get except USA HD. He said that, as far as he knew, USA HD was fine on their system. He supposedly sent hits to both cards after I pulled them and reinstalled, but that made no difference. Tech is supposed to bring two new cards on Tuesday.
> 
> So the ending hasn't yet been written...


That sucks, I guess I am one of the lucky ones with no issues so far, but its only been 10 days. I have 3 tivo hd's with single stream M cards in each and so far haven't had any problems. Avenue broadband is our cable system, they just bought out Charter in our area( southern Indiana) good luck I hope you figure it out because these tivos are awesome when they work.


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## Bierboy

captkirk685 said:


> That sucks, I guess I am one of the lucky ones with no issues so far, but its only been 10 days. I have 3 tivo hd's with single stream M cards in each and so far haven't had any problems. Avenue broadband is our cable system, they just bought out Charter in our area( southern Indiana) good luck I hope you figure it out because these tivos are awesome when they work.


Well now, the interesting thing is I just discovered USA HD is back. This is aggravating. I hesitate to cancel another service call, so I may just have them come out as scheduled tomorrow to check things out. You're right; when it's working the way it's supposed to, it's awesome.


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## jmaditto

I'm similar to BierBoy...everything was working Sat and Sun and then sometime Monday, I lost my digital encrypted channels. Unlike last week, my card status is "Ready" as opposed to &#8220;Not Staged&#8221; so I'm calling TWC C/S to hit the card and see if that will do it. I probably should have just called their National Cable Card Support Line as this rep immediately wanted to send out a tech. I told her that probably won't help and that she needs to work with the Headend. On hold now while she checks. She probably isn't checking at all and is laughing at me right now. 

Oh well, assuming this works out, I sure hope I don't have to make a weekly call to TWC to hit my card.

I'm telling you, it sure seems like the CS reps with TWC are not very familiar with cable cards and certainly not TiVo. I thought since I waited a year all this would be smooth now. Oh well.

Update - All finished with TWC CS....once I directed her to the Heandend it went well. Someone removed the CC serial from my account. She worked with the Headend and they say everything is good now. I will find out later today.

Another Update - it took one more call to the TW National CC Hotline as the Host ID was entered incorrectly. It's all good now. I'll tell you one thing, no more calling the general CS number for CC issues.


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## rlcarr

Just wanted to pass along a snippet from my install and what I've found from subsequently asking around.

It looks like RCN doesn't bother to pair the CC with the TiVo. Both here in Arlington, MA and apparently in at least NY they just call in or transmit in the CC serial number to the mothership and install the card. No interest in even looking at the host IDs (let alone calling them in). So there's activation but no pairing.

However, I do get all my channels fine and it at least a couple of people I've talked to who have also verified their card(s) are activated but unpaired are getting premium channels OK. So I guess RCN isn't copy-protecting channels (yet).

On the positive side, this would appear to mean you should be able to move the cards around between devices at will (useful if installing a clean upgraded hard drive too, I'd imagine). On the downside, if RCN starts using copy protection things could be hosed, especially if RCN's provisioning application isn't set up to do CC serial number/host ID associations.


----------



## jmaditto

Sounds good to me. Less things to screw up during the install/config process. Glad it worked out for you.

Another topic - if you upgrade your internal drive on a THD, does it affect the cablecard pairing? Im afraid to mess with mine since evertthing is stable at the moment.


----------



## captkirk685

jmaditto said:


> Sounds good to me. Less things to screw up during the install/config process. Glad it worked out for you.
> 
> Another topic - if you upgrade your internal drive on a THD, does it affect the cablecard pairing? Im afraid to mess with mine since evertthing is stable at the moment.


I have upgraded 3 THD's and all my cable card settings stayed in tact with no problems..


----------



## rlcarr

captkirk685 said:


> I have upgraded 3 THD's and all my cable card settings stayed in tact with no problems..


How did you do the upgrade, though? Did you use a clean drive? Or did you copy (at a minimum) the settings, etc. off your old drive?


----------



## captkirk685

rlcarr said:


> How did you do the upgrade, though? Did you use a clean drive? Or did you copy (at a minimum) the settings, etc. off your old drive?


I used a program called winmfs and made a backup of all my old drives then popped in the new drive and did a restore of my backup and it only took about a minute and it keeps all your settings and current software version but does not copy your recordings. However there is an option to copy your recordings with this software if you so choose. if you need any help with this software let me know, you can find it with a google search. Make sure your using windows Xp service pack 2 or later before you hook up any tivo drives to your computer or windows will write something on the drives that make them not work with tivo. The drives I used were clean..


----------



## xcalibr

Hi All,

I just got a new HD TiVo. I had 2 techs come out yesterday and install 2 S-Cards. All my regular channels come in but none of my Premiums. I only get up to channel 70, have no HBO, SHO, etc... either, and I only get a couple of my HD channels. I have a regular DVR from them and it gets everything fine. They said I had to wait until midnight, I did, still nothing. So I called again, they said to wait until 5am, I did, still nothing. I called again, they sent a "hit" which did nothing. Called back again they said they sent "something" again and it could take from 3-5 hours to switch over. Now after 10 hours still nothing. It's not been over 30 hours since the techs were here. So now I have another appointment for the techs to come out to the house again. Does anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences with Atlantic Broadband and CableCARDS? I have restarted twice also. I am connected via Ethernet. I have had a regular TiVo for several years, but never had cards installed in a unit until this HD unit. Both cards state that CP has been authorized, if that means anything.

Thank you all for your help!
-Doren


----------



## aaronwt

Most cable card problems stem from incorrect info being entered. You need to have a tech that knows what they are doing, and they need to get in touch with the correct person at the head end. Even if they have the correct info, if they don't contact the correct person at the headend it won't work properly. I went through that in 2006.

When the correct info is given to the proper person at the headend, my cablecards always came up within a few minutes with all the proper programming.


----------



## kwadguy

Does anyone know if the original Series 3 boxes (TCD648250B) will ever be upgraded to support multistream cards? 

It sucks that these boxes, which cost a LOT more than the ones that replaced them, haven't been software upgraded to support M cards, unless it's not possible.


----------



## richsadams

kwadguy said:


> Does anyone know if the original Series 3 boxes (TCD648250B) will ever be upgraded to support multistream cards?


Agreed, but according to TiVoStephen (or was it TiVoJerry...there's a direct response to this question on the forum, somewhere) the S3 is capable of using "M" cards if they were to do some additional software development, however not to expect it any time soon. Now that they've basically discontinued the S3 in favor of the THD and THDXL I wouldn't plan on it ever happening IMHO.


----------



## kwadguy

richsadams said:


> Agreed, but according to TiVoStephen (or was it TiVoJerry...there's a direct response to this question on the forum, somewhere) the S3 is capable of using "M" cards if they were to do some additional software development, however not to expect it any time soon. Now that they've basically discontinued the S3 in favor of the THD and THDXL I wouldn't plan on it ever happening IMHO.


Well, if that's the case (it's merely a software issue, not a hardware limitation) and Tivo leaves us early adopters who paid big money high and dry, then they can bite me. That'll be the last time I buy their expensive hardware...


----------



## tripmaster

Last nite, watched the debate. Perhaps my TiVo was so overwhelmed that it killed the cablecard bc this AM, all channels except major networks were dead, and even the majors had horrible picture quality. Other channels gave me an error that said "Searching for signal on cable in - see msgs and settings/troubleshooting for info." and another msg (depending on the channel) that says "channel not available - you may need cablecard decoders to view his channel".

TWC NYC is going to send a tech out - is there any special procedure to REPLACE cable cards?


----------



## pssst

I have RCN in Chicago. After over a week of daily troubleshooting over the phone and having techs coming out several times I said screw it and bought myself one of the new TivoHD units to replace my old Series3HD. My old one had the problem of having two cards installed but only one of them working properly. I now yanked out the good (M) card and inserted it into my new TivoHD and everything is great (without any further calls necessary to RCN). I now have two tuners with all the channels coming from a single M card. I think the problems with RCN lie in them troubleshooting whatever card is in slot 1 regardless of what you tell them is happening with slot 2. So forget the Series3... I mean $300 for a new TivoHD is well worth eliminating the pain that comes from RCN troubleshooting 2 cable cards.


----------



## kas111375

Hi! Had the tech come out and put in the cards. All was fine until we tested the HD channels. I couldn't get any of them to work. The tech (from Time Warner) called his supervisor and said the cable cards don't support HD channels. I subsequently called the 'solutions' (ha!) desk and they said they support HD, but I won't be able to get 5 HD channels unless I use their equipment. (However, the tech and I couldn't get any of them to work.)

They said not many people in the area are using Tivo HDs with their service so they really can't help me with it, and beyond that, they don't offer support for Tivo. So now I have a TIvo HD that won't receive HD channels...any suggestions?? Thnx!


----------



## richsadams

kas111375 said:


> Hi! Had the tech come out and put in the cards. All was fine until we tested the HD channels. I couldn't get any of them to work. The tech (from Time Warner) called his supervisor and said the cable cards don't support HD channels. I subsequently called the 'solutions' (ha!) desk and they said they support HD, but I won't be able to get 5 HD channels unless I use their equipment. (However, the tech and I couldn't get any of them to work.)
> 
> They said not many people in the area are using Tivo HDs with their service so they really can't help me with it, and beyond that, they don't offer support for Tivo. So now I have a TIvo HD that won't receive HD channels...any suggestions?? Thnx!


Welcome to the forum, sorry it's under such frustrating circumstances.  I can't speak for TW, but based on years of posts elsewhere, what they are telling you is a crock. First, if you aren't getting any HD channels they haven't properly paired them. Second, cable cards are cable cards and should be able to handle ALL channels, HD included.

Not sure if you have a TiVo Series3 or a TiVo HD or TiVo HDXL. Series3's require two cable cards, "S" (single stream) or "M" (multi-stream). But TiVo HD's can use one "M" (multi-stream) cable card. If you have a TiVo HD and they installed two "S" (single stream) cable cards, see if you can get them to install one "M" cable card. That may resolve things. If they can't get one or the other up and running, I'd run it up to a higher level; there's no reason that it won't work without using their equipment.

Best of luck!


----------



## a68oliver

richsadams said:


> If they can't get one or the other up and running, I'd run it up to a higher level; there's no reason that it won't work without using their equipment.


Unless the 5 HD channels he can't receive are SDV and he doesn't have a Tuning Adapter/Resolver.

Of course, this doesn't explain why he coudln't receive ANY HD channels.


----------



## richsadams

a68oliver said:


> Unless the 5 HD channels he can't receive are SDV and he doesn't have a Tuning Adapter/Resolver.


True enough, but I wouldn't put TW at the leading edge of SDV...or much else.


----------



## tripmaster

It might help to share what your Cable Card diagnostics/CP status screens show?

TWC is telling you a crock, as other posters are saying.



kas111375 said:


> Hi! Had the tech come out and put in the cards. All was fine until we tested the HD channels. I couldn't get any of them to work. The tech (from Time Warner) called his supervisor and said the cable cards don't support HD channels. I subsequently called the 'solutions' (ha!) desk and they said they support HD, but I won't be able to get 5 HD channels unless I use their equipment. (However, the tech and I couldn't get any of them to work.)
> 
> They said not many people in the area are using Tivo HDs with their service so they really can't help me with it, and beyond that, they don't offer support for Tivo. So now I have a TIvo HD that won't receive HD channels...any suggestions?? Thnx!


----------



## kas111375

tripmaster said:


> It might help to share what your Cable Card diagnostics/CP status screens show?
> 
> TWC is telling you a crock, as other posters are saying.


I don't have any of that information anymore b/c I made the tech switch everything back to their crappy DVR since apparently it won't work. (For now!) But I don't want to give up! (BTW, I'm on Tivo HD)

I just went into the Time Warner Customer service store. Yet another person told me (as I've since studied up since the first install) that that YES, this issue is due to SDV, and NO they do not offer adapters and have no idea when they will - if ever.

Am I SOL? Anyone want to buy an unused Tivo HD? I am SO sad...


----------



## richsadams

I'm not up on SDV as much as I'd like, but doesn't the law require cableco's to supply adapters? Also, IIRC, TiVo is on the verge of making their boxes SDV compatible so hang in there!


----------



## tripmaster

I dont believe thats true unless ALL their HD channels are SDV.

Anyone else here chime in? Im in NYC, so dont have this prob w/our TWC.



kas111375 said:


> I don't have any of that information anymore b/c I made the tech switch everything back to their crappy DVR since apparently it won't work. (For now!) But I don't want to give up! (BTW, I'm on Tivo HD)
> 
> I just went into the Time Warner Customer service store. Yet another person told me (as I've since studied up since the first install) that that YES, this issue is due to SDV, and NO they do not offer adapters and have no idea when they will - if ever.
> 
> Am I SOL? Anyone want to buy an unused Tivo HD? I am SO sad...


----------



## michman

For me it's the same old crap as the rest of you. Comcast installed an M-CARD in my TiVo HD and I only get analog channels. No digital or HD channels at all.

I'm so frustrated and of coarse calling the support line is useless because they are all soooooooooo uneducated about the issue it makes me sick.

What do I do now???


----------



## richsadams

kas111375 said:


> I don't have any of that information anymore b/c I made the tech switch everything back to their crappy DVR since apparently it won't work. (For now!) But I don't want to give up! (BTW, I'm on Tivo HD)
> 
> I just went into the Time Warner Customer service store. Yet another person told me (as I've since studied up since the first install) that that YES, this issue is due to SDV, and NO they do not offer adapters and have no idea when they will - if ever.
> 
> Am I SOL? Anyone want to buy an unused Tivo HD? I am SO sad...


UPDATE...FCC is fining TWC for SDV violations...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/16/fcc-fines-twc-and-cox-for-deploying-switched-digital-video/



> Today the FCC's Enforcement Bureau proposed to fine TWC and Cox's Fairfax County system because they "apparently willfully violated" the requirement to support third party CableCARD devices.


Hmmm...third party cable card devices...hmmm...like, um TIVO! 

This may or may not apply to you, but how did things finally turn out? Hope you get this resolved. :up:

EDIT: Here's another post about TWC/SDV.


----------



## kas111375

Thanks for the article, Rich. That makes me HAPPY!

There is no solution to my problem at this time and I refuse to pay Time Warner for channels I'm not getting so I returned my Tivo and went back to using TW's DVR for the time being. I also sent an email to the FCC and to TWC corporate. 

Hopefully they will have tuning adapters soon, and then I will definitely try to switch back to Tivo, but until then, I am stuck with Time Warner's very inferior product. Boo!


----------



## richsadams

kas111375 said:


> Thanks for the article, Rich. That makes me HAPPY!
> 
> There is no solution to my problem at this time and I refuse to pay Time Warner for channels I'm not getting so I returned my Tivo and went back to using TW's DVR for the time being. I also sent an email to the FCC and to TWC corporate.
> 
> Hopefully they will have tuning adapters soon, and then I will definitely try to switch back to Tivo, but until then, I am stuck with Time Warner's very inferior product. Boo!


 Understood...and you have all of our sympathy during these trying times.


----------



## smedley12

Hoping someone can help me as I couldn't find the answer to my Q in the FAQ list...

I just upgraded to TiVo HD and my multi-stream cable card doesn't appear to be properly linked with my account. (The cable guy left as the screen that was supposedly linking up all of the cable channels was up... I was stupid and believed him when he said once it cycled through everything would be cool, and let him leave.) Now I've been on the phone with Comcast at least four different times and they can't figure out what's wrong. They have another tech coming next weekend but thought I'd try posting here.

My cable is coming in properly - I can see all the channels I'm supposed to get through the HD cable box (which I got bc I still want to be able to get on demand).

My TiVo box is working - if I remove the splitter, I can get basic cable channels but not any of the other HD channels or the HBO, etc. I should be getting.

What do I need to do to get my cable card talking to my account properly? AND, is there any way to do it online without calling Comcast again? I am going to tear my hair out if I have to talk to a clueless phone tech again.


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## drhankz

smedley12 said:


> What do I need to do to get my cable card talking to my account properly? AND, is there any way to do it online without calling Comcast again? I am going to tear my hair out if I have to talk to a clueless phone tech again.


Your LIFE is in the Hands of Comcast.

As long as your CableCard is in the correct TiVo Slot. 
That is all you can do on your end.

After that there is nothing you can do EXCEPT read the Comcast
Tech on the phone the correct PAIRING info. No one needs
to come out. You just need to reach a Comcast ATS [Advance
Tech Support] technician who can KEY IN the right pairing
info. The problem is convincing the 1st line tech support
person that you need to talk to someone else.


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## jon96cobra

I have Cox cable and I have 2 S cards in my Series 3 When the cable company runs updates to add more channels do I need to do anything to the cards or to the tivo to start viewing the stations. About a month or 2 ago my tivo notice a cable line up of my discovery tier picking up the HD version of there stations but when I go to the stations they are black but have the guide information. I'm about to call my Cox Cable and mention I'm not getting the stations but I want to make sure its not something I can handle myself with a simple reboot of the tivo or to the Cable cards.


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## a68oliver

There is nothing for you to do when it all works as designed. I have had a couple of channel upgrades with Comcast and had to do nothing. Sometimes it can take up to 24 hours for both the channel map and the guide to get in sync with each other.

However, when it doesn't work as designed..... Perhaps Cox has not authorized the new channels in your package. If a reboot doesn't fix it, at the least, I would call them, explain your problem and ask them to "hit" your cards again. If that doesn't work, then your account is probably misconfigured on their end. Good luck getting them to sort that out.


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## ericbro

I have a new TiVo HD. Comcast (Nashville) allowed me to pick up my M-card and I installed it following the directions. I now have access to only the very basic channels (I think they call it "limited") - basically local channels only. None of the other basic channels like ESPN, CNN, etc. Those screens are black. My channel guide lists ALL of the channels.

Just had a technician come out. His dispatcher that was the "supposed" cable card expert said that M-cards worked only intermittently on Tivo's. They might work for a while then drop channels. She insisted that we would need two S-cards (for which she would charge me $6.95). And, of course, although I asked if he would have extra cards on the truck when I placed the service call, he didn't have any. So they scheduled a service call for the morning. 

I think they're wrong, but I don't know what to do to get those missing channels. I've tried stepping through the troubleshooting steps at the beginning of this forum, but I'm not sure what's up.

I don't trust them, and don't want to wait. Suggestions?


----------



## jon96cobra

Talked to Cox cable today they told me they have a fix for the problem of the channels I'm not able to get. The told me its a Cable card Tivo Adapter. It will be available in my area this Thursday. I can't wait to see what channels I will get back.


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## ericbro

Here's an update. Contacted TiVo tech support - he was great. Walked me through checking out the card. Determined that Comcast hadn't activated the card. (I don't know what, if anything, they did when I had called before. I probably didn't ask the right questions.) I called Comcast and had them activate the card and pair it to the slot - a couple of times. Still no change. TiVo's next guess was a bad card. I've got a service call schedule for the morning. I'll update again.


----------



## crazi4tv

ericbro said:


> I have a new TiVo HD. Comcast (Nashville) allowed me to pick up my M-card and I installed it following the directions. I now have access to only the very basic channels (I think they call it "limited") - basically local channels only. None of the other basic channels like ESPN, CNN, etc. Those screens are black. My channel guide lists ALL of the channels.
> 
> Just had a technician come out. His dispatcher that was the "supposed" cable card expert said that M-cards worked only intermittently on Tivo's. They might work for a while then drop channels. She insisted that we would need two S-cards (for which she would charge me $6.95). And, of course, although I asked if he would have extra cards on the truck when I placed the service call, he didn't have any. So they scheduled a service call for the morning.
> 
> I think they're wrong, but I don't know what to do to get those missing channels. I've tried stepping through the troubleshooting steps at the beginning of this forum, but I'm not sure what's up.
> 
> I don't trust them, and don't want to wait. Suggestions?


If M-Cards are installed, paired and "initialized" properly they will work just fine. They will only drop channels if the pairing information changes, your cable package changes, or if the card(s) need to be re-authorized. Is you card Motorola or Scientific Atlantic?


----------



## jman

I have a tivo series 3 HD. I have a M card. I do not recieve all HD channels. I am told that this is due to the way the cable company scrambles the channels. I forget the terminology. I have Cablevision. As I understand it all the other cable companies have an add on box or fixed the cable cards to watch all paid for channels. When is cablevision going to fix this? Are they just trying to bust tivo so you have to buy their own dvr?


----------



## ericbro

My M-card is a Motorola.

Comcast tried again to activate and pair the card, but it didn't take. The next TiVo tech support person wasn't quite as good. Whereas the first one said they'd get on a 3-way call with Comcast, this one said that "sometimes she can't connect" when trying to call the customer back. Why she had to hang up to call me back to establish the 3-way call is beyond me. I think she just didn't want to do it.

Comcast is due here in an hour or so. More to come.....


----------



## wkearney99

ericbro said:


> Why she had to hang up to call me back to establish the 3-way call is beyond me. I think she just didn't want to do it.


Not all phone systems are configured to allow establishing those kinds of calls. It could just be a human nature issue where she just didn't want to deal with the hassle, or didn't know how to use the phone system to do it. Regardless, the ineptitude on the part of the cable providers is legendary; Comcast more than others.


----------



## ericbro

Actually, that was the TiVo person who didn't seem to want to do the 3-way call. The first TiVo person volunteered an offer to do so. The second one was obviously reluctant.


----------



## ericbro

The Comcast technician just left. Just for giggles, we removed the M-Card and stuck it back in, and had Comcast re-activate it. It worked. 

End of story. Hope this helps someone.


----------



## drhankz

ericbro said:


> The Comcast technician just left. Just for giggles, we removed the M-Card and stuck it back in, and had Comcast re-activate it. It worked.
> 
> End of story. Hope this helps someone.


I have seen that problem before also.

It seems the CARD won't ACCEPT the info from Comcast
unless a COLD REBOOT is done [aka Extract and Insert].

This is not always necessary - just some times. I have 
5 DVR's with "M" cards. I only had to do it on 1 out 5. 
I can't explain it.


----------



## lrhorer

ericbro said:


> Just had a technician come out. His dispatcher that was the "supposed" cable card expert said that M-cards worked only intermittently on Tivo's. They might work for a while then drop channels.


They are full of $#!&. M-cards work fine on TiVos. The only issue relate dto M-Cards is they will only work in simplex mode on the original Series 3, so if the user has an S3, they need two cards whether they are M-Cards or S-Cards. On the TiVo HD or HD XL they work just fine. I've had a TiVo HD for a year, now, with the same M-Card in it the entire time. I've never had any channels drop. In fact, unless you count a handful of shows which did not air when they were listed to air and a couple of power ouatges, I've never missed a single recording.



ericbro said:


> I don't trust them, and don't want to wait. Suggestions?


Be very nice and patient, but firm and confidant sounding. Do not BS them, but don't allow them to push you around, either. Be adamant they be very specific in their statements, and make it obvious you are taking down a full set of notes, including names, dates, serial numbers, and times. Chances are good they will accommodate you to get things working. Make sure you know everything you need to know prior to interfacing with them, such as the fact there are tens of thousands of TiVo HD units in the field equipped with M-Cards and there have been no widespread reports of intermittent problems with M-Cards on the THD. Give them plenty of rope to hang themselves, if they so choose. In the event they do so choose and try to snow you again, turn nasty. I mean really nasty. Remind them pointedly that you have names, dates, and serial numbers. Point out very clearly that you know they are lying and exactly how you know. I would avoid foul language, but call them liars flat-out to theri faces if their behavior warrants it. Be sure to have the name and address of the local General Manager - and their e-mail and phone number if you actually can get them - and tell them in no uncertain terms the GM will be receiving an angry letter / e-mail / phone call from you with names, dates, serial numbers, and an accurate transcript of the events of the trouble call, including the specifics of any lies they told. If you still receive no satisfaction, then make the call. Don't let them off the hook.


----------



## lrhorer

jman said:


> I have a tivo series 3 HD. I have a M card. I do not recieve all HD channels. I am told that this is due to the way the cable company scrambles the channels. I forget the terminology. I have Cablevision. As I understand it all the other cable companies have an add on box or fixed the cable cards to watch all paid for channels. When is cablevision going to fix this? Are they just trying to bust tivo so you have to buy their own dvr?


It sounds like you mean Switched Digital Video. It has nothing to do with scrambling. It has to do with drastically increasing the number of available channels on the CATV system by implementing a switched protocol - SDV - rather than the very limited traditional method of broadcast delivery.

Assuming the issue is indeed deployment of SDV, the resolution for TiVos and possibly other future CableCard based unidirectional receivers (UDCPs) is called the Tuning Adapter. The two major SDV systems in the United States are made by Scientific Atlanta (Cisco) and Motorola. Both Cisco and Motorola have developed TAs for use with CableCard based UDCPs that have appropriately enabled USB ports, such as the S3 and THD TiVos. There are a handful of local franchises which have delivered TAs to their subscribers, but as of yet most have not. They are due to be delivered on a widespread basis to the general public within the next couple of months. Several MSOs have suggested they may be supplying them free of charge, but few have committed to this policy, yet. For more info, see the SDV FAQ in this conference.


----------



## wizzle

Thanks for this post. 

If anyone could share their experience w/ Tivo HD in the Raleigh/Durham area using TWC, that would be great.

More specifically...the use of CABLECARDS and HD content available with the basic cable lineup.


----------



## mike32940

I'm getting screwed by Comcast for the additional outlet fee and the cable card fee in order to have a 2 scard configuration and would like to cut back on my cable bill. If I removed one scard would I be able to get all the channels on 1 tuner but only those I get in the clear on the second? Would Tivo handle this intelligently when schuling shows? This would work for me as I hardly ever get a conflict between 2 encrypted channels and I know I'm getting the major networks in HD in the clear as I can see them ok using the tuner on my TVs.

Is this feasible? Anyone got this sort of configuration?


----------



## Adam1115

mike32940 said:


> I'm getting screwed by Comcast for the additional outlet fee and the cable card fee in order to have a 2 scard configuration and would like to cut back on my cable bill. If I removed one scard would I be able to get all the channels on 1 tuner but only those I get in the clear on the second? Would Tivo handle this intelligently when schuling shows? This would work for me as I hardly ever get a conflict between 2 encrypted channels and I know I'm getting the major networks in HD in the clear as I can see them ok using the tuner on my TVs.
> 
> Is this feasible? Anyone got this sort of configuration?


No, It will simply record one show at a time and work otherwise exactly the same as it does now.


----------



## Vern_l

Hope this helps someone know what to expect. Here is my experience with Comcast in Northwest Georgia, a Tivo HD XL, and an S3 getting outfitted with CableCARD's

Friday, Comcast Installer came out for the install, he had 4 Motorola M-cards.

Tivo HD XL was the first and got 1 M-card, info relayed to dispatch over the phone, and card seemed to be downloading a file. Thought the card may not be doing what it was supposed to and sent several additional "hits" to the card. Still thought it was not pulling in the channels, but about 30 minutes to an hour later I had all my channels and everything was working correctly. 

The S3 had a similar experience, except it got 2 CableCARD's 30 minutes to and hour after install, CableCard 1 was working, but CableCard 2 was only getting unencrypted channels. The install tech was long gone by this time, but had a service call scheduled for Monday before he left. It was his first cablecard job, when he left I was only receiving unencrypted channels on all 3 cards. Two started working correctly about 30minutes after he left, and the last one never fixed itself. 

I tried calling service on Saturday hoping someone there could fix it, they "hit" the card again, but no luck. I waited for the service call on Monday.

Monday, the service tech arrived, I showed him the problem with Cablecard 2 in the S3 using the channel test for that card. He asked me to show him the pairing info for that card, and then he was able to "initialize" the card using his handheld magic box, and it started working almost immediately.

Things I learned:

1) Initial activation of the Cablecards may take 30minutes to an hour to receive all the channels.

2) Install techs for Comcast are technically challenged.

3) Some of the Comcast service techs know what they are doing and were able to fix my cablecard problem using only their handheld computer.

4) An "Initialize" signal is different than a "hit" and could fix your cablecard issues if your channels are not working an hour after initial install.

Hope this helps, someone know what to expect.


----------



## Meklos

Adam1115 said:


> No, It will simply record one show at a time and work otherwise exactly the same as it does now.


Which makes absolutely no sense to me...

No cablecard, I can record:

1) Two analog channels
2) One clear QAM channel and one analog channel
3) Two clear QAM channels

One S card, I can record:

1) One analog channel
2) One digital channel

It's like it doesn't even know the 2nd tuner is there, even though it *could* record an analog channel there... or a clear QAM one.


----------



## Adam1115

Meklos said:


> Which makes absolutely no sense to me...
> 
> No cablecard, I can record:
> 
> 1) Two analog channels
> 2) One clear QAM channel and one analog channel
> 3) Two clear QAM channels
> 
> One S card, I can record:
> 
> 1) One analog channel
> 2) One digital channel
> 
> It's like it doesn't even know the 2nd tuner is there, even though it *could* record an analog channel there... or a clear QAM one.


You have it exactly correct.

It appears the design is a throwback to the DirecTiVo dual tuner design.

On the HR10-250, if you only had one satellite input you could only record one thing at a time even if one was OTA.

My guess was that the programming would've been too complicated for the TiVo to have to determine which channel is on what tuner and whether it is able to use it, and perhaps would've made the unit buggier...

Although the DT is somehow able to handles this...


----------



## langsbr

I feel lucky since my install went prety smooth. Installer came with 2 M cards and the first one he popped in and it did a firmware upgrade on its own right away. He gave the headend the card id and host id and she sent a command and said it was paired. We did the guide setup which took about 20 min and once it was done we weren't getting any of the premiums (HBO, SHO). He contacted the headend and we checked and the card said, "not staged". he told her that, she hit the card and bam, it said "ready". Started getting all the premiums and some of the HDs. Does anyone know what channels are on SDV in Columbia, SC? I don't know which channels I should or shouldn't get? Is it random depending on what is being requested, or will no sdv channels ever come in?


----------



## [email protected]

I installed three SA cards yesterday and have no apparent access to encrypted programming yet. I am getting a "CP Auth Received" in the CP menu but can't find any reference to "Powerkey Status" anywhere.

Where can I find the "Powerkey Status" info? Or is it no longer used in the current firmware?

Thanks


----------



## wizzle

My experience w/ Time Warner installing an M-card in Tivo HD.

Call to set the appt. for the install and the tech assured me that the person they send out knows a lot about cablecard installs.

The guy arrived and had never done a cablecard install on a Tivo. 

That said, he had done a couple before into TVs. The install went fine. He called in the details and they guy on the other end was questioning why we were even installing a cablecard. He made the claim that it wasn't going to gain me anything.

Never-the-less, the card was ready in about 20 mins. The long wait was the Tivo learning all the new info and rebooting. 

When the tech left...we hadn't even confirmed I received any HD content.

After searching this forum, I figured out the HD channels were not your typical 2, 4, 6, etc... but rather up in the 200+ range.

This was easy to confirm by simply looking at the channel lineup for this area where they list all of the HD channels.

All works great. The techs still don't have much an understanding of it all.

I'm also on the list for the SDV card, but thus far I get all of the HD channels I am paying for.


----------



## richsadams

wizzle said:


> My experience w/ Time Warner installing an M-card in Tivo HD.
> 
> He called in the details and they guy on the other end was questioning why we were even installing a cablecard. He made the claim that it wasn't going to gain me anything.


Thanks very much for the details. :up:

It's just unbelievable to me that after more than four years some employees of major cableco's still have no clue when it comes to cable cards. Amazing.


----------



## Mchero

richsadams said:


> Thanks very much for the details. :up:
> 
> It's just unbelievable to me that after more than four years some employees of major cableco's still have no clue when it comes to cable cards. Amazing.


They had to roll a truck when the HD units came out, not any more, they will simply hand over an HD box to you BUT after 3 years they still have to roll a truck for a CC install.

I picked up my 2nd HD Tivo, called Comcast and was told I would have to wait 2 weeks for the install. Sure I can take a day off w/o any problems....NOT


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## Lorcane

Is it important for your cable cards to have received the channel list? Mine are sort of working; however, I've never received the channel list from TWC.


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## cableguy763

Lorcane said:


> Is it important for your cable cards to have received the channel list? Mine are sort of working; however, I've never received the channel list from TWC.


What do you mean by channel list? Are you talking about the list in guided setup? If your cable cards are hooked up to rf they are getting a channel map and sending that to the tivo.


----------



## alose

Just to let people know that the setup can be simple:
Comcast Cape Coral FL:
Last week on Tuesday call up Comcast and change Full Basic to bottom tier Digital. Guy puts me on hold I get another agent. Place order again and request cable card. I specifically requested an M-Card. The agent was a bit confused but accepted that it was a specific type of Cable card and noted it in the order. The Card was "Free" but there was a mandatory $39.99 install fee. The agent scheduled a tech to come out Saturday Morning.

The calls up about 8:30 to say he would be over in about 10 minutes. He shows up, copies down some info from the cable card, inserts card and goes to the pair info screen. He calls in, gets the the service activated, and screen blips and then everything is working. All told, took maybe 10-15 minutes.

I did have everything configured on the tivo but the cable card and had it sitting at the right screen for the tech. Still the tech was a little surprised everything went so smoothly.


----------



## richsadams

alose said:


> Just to let people know that the setup can be simple: <snip>


Thanks for that. :up: It's good to hear a positive experience now and then. I think most of the time that's the case these days and that about the only time someone finds their way here is when it doesn't go so well. After several years on the market now, it's still surprising to hear about cableco's and/or tech's that still have no clue about what to do with a cable card.

Enjoy your new TiVo!


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## vaughtj1957

Hi, Couldn't find an answer in the FAQ,s so here goes........
Just Replaced my Series 2Dt with A Tivo HD. I Live in SoCal and have TWC. Emailed TWC to set my appt date to install 2 cards and was informed they only support S cards with limited premium service. They set the appt for the next day. Installer came out and informed me he had never done a CC install before. I requested another tech. He called someone else and within 20 minutes had a senior tech arrive at he house. He said he had never done a Tivo install before but has done a few TV's. Luckily I had read through the forums for install advice and felt comfortable to give the green light. I pulled up the correct Tivo screen to begin card install. I inspected the cards and to my delight found they had brought 2 Motorola M cards. Tech installed card 1 and I ran the Tivo to the correct set up screen. He then called in to activate card and was working within minutes :up:, receiving all premium channels. I had read that all I needed was one M card to make dual tuners operate, but only one channel worked. I had him go ahead and install another M card in slot 2 and now both tuners are working flawlessly. 
My question is, was something done wrong during the activation service?  or is this normal. Is there any advantage to using the M cards? Currently am not using an HD set, but plan to upgrade in the near future.


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## lrhorer

I cannot say for certain, as I have never actually attempted this, but I suspect your second card is doing nothing at all. Go into the diagnostics screens, and they will tell you wich CableCard is providing services. There is definitely no need for two M-Cards. I also strongly suspect the CSR who told you only limited services were available was incorrect. It's true you will not be able to receive any SDV channels until the TA is delivered in your area, and you might want to research to make certain any premium packages are worth it given the unavailability of SDV channels in those packages.


----------



## pete7000

Hi
I have a tivo 3 and cablecard. Can I use the cablecard that Iam renting from the cable company , but no subscrition service from tivo?
I don't need the program schedulle
thanks


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## richsadams

pete7000 said:


> Hi
> I have a tivo 3 and cablecard. Can I use the cablecard that Iam renting from the cable company , but no subscrition service from tivo?
> I don't need the program schedulle
> thanks


Unfortunately no. You have to have activate a TiVo subscription to use a TiVo Series3.


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## pete7000

thanks


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## serial_port_me05

All, Thanks for your knowledge here, I have spent the last hour scrolling.

I am making the switch to Cablevision after many years of Directv with Tivo. I purchased 2 new HD Tivos.

I hope the guy they send is good, you all have made me paranoid.

One question, I have read in the thread but want to be clear - It is best to set up the Tivos before the guy arrives. I can't hook it up to anything for a picture, but I can get the wireless connection hooked up to my network prior to him coming. This will activate and update the Tivo software. Will it allow me to go through guided setup without anything plugged into any of the inputs?

Is that correct? And is there anything else I should do prior to him coming...other than crossing my fingers?


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## macd2

A tip for anyone about to get a CableCard installed:

Do the guided setup and make sure Tivo upgrades to the latest software version before attempting the install.

My Tivo came with 8.something and it rejected the CableCards.
After upgrading to 11.something, the Tivo accpeted the M-card.


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## beckylynn420

So here is a question. We had the hardest time getting our 2 motorola S Cards paired with our series 3 HD DVR. They would unpair on the cable company end but would not repair. So I did a full reset on the box and then swapped the positions and it still had some problems. At first I could only watch tv if I went to a card and went thru configure and test channels and just tested card 2. Now this is what I have

Card one (which is a motorola S card) says the following in the important areas

Auth: Fixed working key
Host Validation: Valid 04
Copy Protection Key: Disabled

Card Two
Auth: SUBSCRIBED
Host Validation: Valid 03
Copy Protection Key: Disabled

And if I go to the pairing screen I get the following on both cards
This screen is displayed on behalf of your cable provider
In order to start cable service please contact your provider

Now I can watch tv, record and flip between DVR's and record. My question is do I need to insist on new cards as to prevent trouble in the future? Anything that I go into with the cablecard menu gives me the call the cable company screen and they both say waiting to start.
Also I am set up thru ethernet but when I do something like go to movies by One True media it tells me that my setting are not correct and I need to get into my Tivo account and allow downloads. Which is set that I can so ugh...what you all think I should do?


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## Lorcane

Anyone know the current firmware number for Scientific Atlantic M-Cards running on TWC?


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## radtechy

Right now i have a TiVo hd with 1 m-card with cablevision of long island. I'm going to be moving to the Bohemia/holbook area near the airport and getting verizon fios. I was hoping someone can explain how to go about getting the new program lineup and preparing the TiVo so it's ready when the tech comes. And is it a seemless transition to put in a new cablecard?

Thanks in advance for any help/info
James


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## PugFan

I purchased my Tivo HD XL Friday, hooked it up Monday and did setup with Broadband. The Cable Card was installed today and there were no issues whatsoever... The installers said that more and more with the newer equipment the installs are going easy...


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## gordonwrogers

radtechy said:


> Right now i have a TiVo hd with 1 m-card with cablevision of long island. I'm going to be moving to the Bohemia/holbook area near the airport and getting verizon fios. I was hoping someone can explain how to go about getting the new program lineup and preparing the TiVo so it's ready when the tech comes. And is it a seemless transition to put in a new cablecard?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help/info
> James


You really don't need to do anything to prepare for a move. You will probably need to return your cable cards to your cable provider, but the install at the other end is usually seamless. I have two TiVo Series 3 HD's with two cable cards each, and one Tivo HD with two cable cards all networked on a cable modem. On a couple occaisions, I have seen installers put in bad cards, but usually they have had replacements on-hand. The guided setup will automatically load your program guide in a few minutes depending on your internet speed.


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## gordonwrogers

beckylynn420 said:


> So here is a question. We had the hardest time getting our 2 motorola S Cards paired with our series 3 HD DVR. They would unpair on the cable company end but would not repair. So I did a full reset on the box and then swapped the positions and it still had some problems. At first I could only watch tv if I went to a card and went thru configure and test channels and just tested card 2. Now this is what I have
> 
> Card one (which is a motorola S card) says the following in the important areas
> 
> Auth: Fixed working key
> Host Validation: Valid 04
> Copy Protection Key: Disabled
> 
> Card Two
> Auth: SUBSCRIBED
> Host Validation: Valid 03
> Copy Protection Key: Disabled
> 
> And if I go to the pairing screen I get the following on both cards
> This screen is displayed on behalf of your cable provider
> In order to start cable service please contact your provider
> 
> Now I can watch tv, record and flip between DVR's and record. My question is do I need to insist on new cards as to prevent trouble in the future? Anything that I go into with the cablecard menu gives me the call the cable company screen and they both say waiting to start.
> Also I am set up thru ethernet but when I do something like go to movies by One True media it tells me that my setting are not correct and I need to get into my Tivo account and allow downloads. Which is set that I can so ugh...what you all think I should do?


Once the cards are installed by the cable company, don't switch them! You need to contact your cable company again and give them the information physically imprinted on the card label, install one card at a time and then go to the Cable Card Configuration page from within Messages and Settings and read them the requested information. They must pair the cards over the phone with you while they are seated in your Tivo box. If you unseat the cards, or swap them, you will likely have to get them paired again by your cable company as they will likely load with new IP addresses. Make sure to test your channels before they get off the phone. Wait for the guided setup to complete, select your channels, test a known channel, test your premium channels, etc. before they get off the phone.


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## gordonwrogers

serial_port_me05 said:


> All, Thanks for your knowledge here, I have spent the last hour scrolling.
> 
> I am making the switch to Cablevision after many years of Directv with Tivo. I purchased 2 new HD Tivos.
> 
> I hope the guy they send is good, you all have made me paranoid.
> 
> One question, I have read in the thread but want to be clear - It is best to set up the Tivos before the guy arrives. I can't hook it up to anything for a picture, but I can get the wireless connection hooked up to my network prior to him coming. This will activate and update the Tivo software. Will it allow me to go through guided setup without anything plugged into any of the inputs?
> 
> Is that correct? And is there anything else I should do prior to him coming...other than crossing my fingers?


Hope your install went well. I made the switch from DirecTV to TiVo a couple years ago and have never looked back. Once the cable cards are installed, it is a beautiful thing!


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## berics

I had a MCard installed by TWC last Saturday. After reading the advice on the board, I was prepared and checked all the HD and premium channels. They all worked except for UHD, HDNet, HDNetMV and MGMHD, (470-473 for TWC Cleveland/Elyria lineup) all of which I received on my SA 8300.

The tech couldn't do anything and told me to talk with customer support. I've now had 5 conversations with them. They claim these channels are on a separate tier for $5 a month. Fine, I said add the tier. They are unable to get it to work. Their most current solution is to have tech come out this Saturday. Since everything is working except these four channels, it doesn't seem to be a hardware problem and I don't see what the tech is going to do.

The CSRs say 'the codes are conflicting' and 'they are taking me around in circles' when they try to add the tier. 

Anyone have any guidance on this issue?

Thanks


----------



## tombonneau

berics said:


> I had a MCard installed by TWC last Saturday. After reading the advice on the board, I was prepared and checked all the HD and premium channels. They all worked except for UHD, HDNet, HDNetMV and MGMHD, (470-473 for TWC Cleveland/Elyria lineup) all of which I received on my SA 8300.
> 
> The tech couldn't do anything and told me to talk with customer support. I've now had 5 conversations with them. They claim these channels are on a separate tier for $5 a month. Fine, I said add the tier. They are unable to get it to work. Their most current solution is to have tech come out this Saturday. Since everything is working except these four channels, it doesn't seem to be a hardware problem and I don't see what the tech is going to do.
> 
> The CSRs say 'the codes are conflicting' and 'they are taking me around in circles' when they try to add the tier.
> 
> Anyone have any guidance on this issue?
> 
> Thanks


Thanks for the heads up. I'm having TWC come by on Saturday. I actually have that HD channel tier, I'll be sure to double-check it.

Any other advice you could give someone going through a TWC install? (Don't really have time to read the thousand posts. )


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## Shanezam203

Comcast came out and installed a Multi Stream Cable Card in my Tivo HD today and he was In and Out. It did not take him long to program it at all.


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## astronomer

I have a Series 3 which has had 2 Scientific Atlanta single stream cable cards installed for over a year. As Comcast (Charlottesville, VA) added HD channels, they all showed up perfectly. Then, a few months ago, the HD channels began to disappear one by one (every few days) until only the HD broadcast channels, all available to me with an antenna, remain. A Comcast tech has been here for visits of 4 and 3 hours and tried several different single and multi cards, with no change in the situation. The non-broadcast channels show up for a fraction of a second, then the screen goes black. The tech has been on the phone with multiple "experts" with no success. They keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The dispatcher and experts insist that I should be able to receive the HD channels in question, that the cards are being programmed correctly, and that the authorization files kept centrally are correct, but the situation is unchanged. Has anybody else seen this particular problem? Could it be related to encryption?


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## mowog74

Astronomer, take this with a grain of salt, because I have no idea if it could have any bearing on your situation or not. But I run a Windows Media Center with a QAM tuner that lets me record unencrypted channels provided by Comcast in Charlottesville, and I can tell you that most of the formerly unencrypted channels have been encrypted over the past couple of months. All I can get now via QAM are the four broadcast channels, music choice, and several digital versions of SD channels (TBS, ESPN, CW, etc).

Unfortunately I don't know enough about the Series3 or CableCard to be able to tell you in what way, if at all, this could affect your installation. My gut says not at all, but it does seem pretty coincidental that these channels are being encrypted around the same time you're having your issue.

Mike


----------



## Bierboy

alose said:


> Just to let people know that the setup can be simple:
> Comcast Cape Coral FL:
> Last week on Tuesday call up Comcast and change Full Basic to bottom tier Digital. Guy puts me on hold I get another agent. Place order again and request cable card. I specifically requested an M-Card. The agent was a bit confused but accepted that it was a specific type of Cable card and noted it in the order. The Card was "Free" but there was a mandatory $39.99 install fee. The agent scheduled a tech to come out Saturday Morning.
> 
> The calls up about 8:30 to say he would be over in about 10 minutes. He shows up, copies down some info from the cable card, inserts card and goes to the pair info screen. He calls in, gets the the service activated, and screen blips and then everything is working. All told, took maybe 10-15 minutes.
> 
> I did have everything configured on the tivo but the cable card and had it sitting at the right screen for the tech. Still the tech was a little surprised everything went so smoothly.


These stories pi** me off....and I'm not mad at the poster; I'm mad at my cableco (Mediacom). Here's my story....

...techs arrived this afternoon (after unsuccessful attempt last Sat to install two S cards in my TiVoHD)...with S cards only. This is TWICE now when I've made the appointment, it's been specified M card only. The guy apologized, said when he got his stuff this morning before heading out, they had no M cards. He said he saw that the order had M card only, and he called ahead of time to see if I still wanted him to show up. I said "yeah, I took off work early, so let's give it a try." Slapped the first S card in, twice they supposedly sent hits, but we could never tune ANY channels at all. So, we re-scheduled a THIRD time for next week, again with the M card stipulation. From the info screens on my TiVo, it appears the hit is coming through because the card is receiving info. But it just never gets any of the channels -- digital or analog. VERY frustrating.

Does anybody have any suggestions? I just can't believe they can't get these suckers to work in my TiVoHD.


----------



## Bierboy

As a follow-up to my previous post, Mediacom came out a third time last Thursday, and the tech I had was head and shoulders above the others...and probably the youngest (23). Within the hour, we had two S-cards working flawlessly in my new HD.


----------



## richsadams

Bierboy said:


> Within the hour, we had two S-cards working flawlessly in my new HD.


Finally! Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## Bierboy

richsadams said:


> Finally! Congrats and enjoy! :up:


Thanks...obviously, I'd prefer one M-card over two S-cards. But Mediacom has a "shortage" of M-cards for some reason. I really don't care as long as it works. It's only $1.99/month/card.


----------



## pl1

Bierboy said:


> Thanks...obviously, I'd prefer one M-card over two S-cards. But Mediacom has a "shortage" of M-cards for some reason. I really don't care as long as it works. It's only $1.99/month/card.


No kidding. Be glad you aren't charged $6.99/mo. for an Additional Outlet like we are at Comcast/North East. When it was $2.75/mo., I said the same thing as you, and so I got 4 cableCARDS. Then they jacked the price up to $5.00/mo, and now $7.00/mo. Now I'm running with a single tuner on one S3 and the other is OTA only.


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## Flyinace2000

Does FIOS still only have the Scards and is do they still require a truck roll? My parents are trying to shave some $$ of their bill. They currently have 4 S-Cards for 2 TiVoHD's but if we can get them down to 2 that would save $8 a month and nearly $100/year.


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> Does FIOS still only have the Scards and is do they still require a truck roll?


It depends on their location. They only have "M" cards in our area, but a number of other folks said that they still only have "S" cards in some other areas.

IIRC they still don't allow DIY cable card installs but that may be area-dependent as well. Truck roll is about $90. Ouch!


----------



## MookieDoug

richsadams said:


> IIRC they still don't allow DIY cable card installs but that may be area-dependent as well. Truck roll is about $90. Ouch!


Truck roll fee also depends. Here in Massachusetts, they charged me $55 for a truck roll to install 1 M-card.


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## richsadams

MookieDoug said:


> Truck roll fee also depends. Here in Massachusetts, they charged me $55 for a truck roll to install 1 M-card.


That's one thing I'll give Comcast credit for...they only charge $14.95 for a truck roll here. They still don't allow DIY cable card installs like they do elsewhere though.


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## TXTivoUser

Just wanted to give a thumbs up to this thread and the FAQ. I just picked up a used S3 from a buddy and the installer brought an M card and both he and I assumed it would work fine and we couldn't get the second tuner to pick up.

The installer was kind of flustered and I wouldn't let him leave until it worked the way I knew it should.

I stumbled on this thread and just happened to read the part that the S3 doesn't have the support for an M card to work in dual stream mode.

I forwarded this thread to the installer so he could use it on the next install.

So great job TCF and the members that helped make my life easier yesterday. :up::up::up:


----------



## Bierboy

TXTivoUser said:


> Just wanted to give a thumbs up to this thread and the FAQ. I just picked up a used S3 from a buddy and the installer brought an M card and both he and I assumed it would work fine and we couldn't get the second tuner to pick up.
> 
> The installer was kind of flustered and I wouldn't let him leave until it worked the way I knew it should.
> 
> I stumbled on this thread and just happened to read the part that the S3 doesn't have the support for an M card to work in dual stream mode.
> 
> I forwarded this thread to the installer so he could use it on the next install.
> 
> So great job TCF and the members that helped make my life easier yesterday. :up::up::up:


Assuming you mean an original S3? I have that and a TiVoHD. The HD will work with one M card or two S cards (but, of course, Mediacom in our area says they can't get their hands on any M cards, so I'm forced to use two S cards). My original S3 uses one S and one M card; it'll work with any combination of those, but, as you discovered, it requires both slots being used.


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## Yuterald

any help? one of our 2 HDTivo's stopped all encrypted stations. it's been working fine since installation several months ago then the gray screen saying to call comcast to access popped up. after reading this thread i know the issue is the card is no longer validated. It's an MCard. I called Comcast and the tech said they sent two signals - one to pair the other to validate. She had me power off the Tivo while she did that and then i powered it back on after (the Mcard stayed in the Tivo during this) and still no luck and still the VAL value does not have a "V" after it (the other HDTIvo is fine and shows the "V"). Any suggestions? The tech is coming here in 2 days but I don't know what he's going to be able to do.


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## juanian

I just had my TiVo HD set up with a M-CableCard (and a Tuning Adapter). There were two issues with the setup that I don't recall seeing posted (but, there *are* a lot of posts!). I thought I'd just try and pass my story along.

First, the signal strength from my cable company (Cox/Phoenix) on my block is very low, but within their limits. (They have been out before, and the signal level at the street was low, and they were going to look into it; I was also told that my block was at the "end of the node".) Adding splitters (and surge suppressors) in the house may drop the signal level low enough to cause problems. (Before the installer arrived, he was having problems with not being able to receive a proper signal from one of the digital cable set top boxes; removing the splitter at that location "fixed" that problem.)

This weak signal issue appears to have caused a problem with the pairing.

An additional problem was getting the Host ID. When the CC was inserted, the ID was displayed for a short time, but before the installer could read it to the main office, the TiVo displayed the "Acquiring Channel Information" screen. After that, the CC tried to update its firmware, and it was not possible to re-display the ID. The installer said that, since the Host ID hadn't been entered into their system, the CC wouldn't be able to get access to update the firmware. (The display never did budge from 0 blocks and 0% completed.)

The installer made a comment about the splitter (at that location) and removed it (to improve the signal strength), but that didn't improve anything.

Inserted the second card. Before it even displayed the Host ID, the "Acquiring Channel Information" screen popped up. Going back to the CC screen, the firmware was being updated.

Inserted the third card. It did display the Host ID, and didn't try and update the CC firmware. (I took a picture of the screen just in case the CC tried to update its firmware again, but it didn't.) The installer was able to get the info to the main office, but the TiVo still couldn't get a lock. Thinking about signal strength (and the fact that there is a signal amplifier in the house which could be affecting things), I moved the TiVo to the cable outlet that was used by the cable modem (since that signal is only split once outside, and is not on the amplified part of the cables). That worked. The CC got a lock, and the CC firmware successfully updated.

Moved the TiVo back to the living room, and problems happened again. Then, he realized that the cable was also going through a surge suppressor. Once that was removed, channels could be received. He checked a number of channels, and they all were coming in.

Then the Tuning Adapter was hooked up (by removing the cable from the TiVo and plugging it into the TA). There was the "normal" wait for the light to stop flashing, which it finally did (after about 5 to 10 minutes). Plugging the USB into the TiVo, the TiVo recognized it, but no channels were being displayed. I knew nothing about Tuning Adapters (except that they are needed to get SDV channels). I asked about the Cable Out on the TA (which wasn't connected to anything). He didn't seem to know, but he didn't think it was needed. I asked if USB had the bandwidth for HD content, and he said that it did. Still no channels.

I asked him to connect the Cable Out from the TA to the Cable (In) on the TiVo, just to see what would happen. He finally did do that, and channels appeared. He tried a variety of channels (HD, HBO, ...), and they all seemed to work. (Since I didn't know which channels were SDV, there wasn't anything else to do.) He needed to leave (and I needed to get to work), so I OK'ed things.

(I think I have a TA problem - it is currently in the 6-flash mode, and the TiVo doesn't show a TA. Also, I can't get the HBO HD channel. I'll look into that later.)

*Bottom line:
1: Make sure you have a strong enough signal at the TiVo, or you might have pairing problems.
2: Be sure to capture the Host ID as quick as possible (because it might go away).*


----------



## jsnow789

I've got an original S3 with 2 S-Cards. It's been working fine for a few years. I did have problems with the Central Florida Bright House HD fiasco last year-but those channels are back. I'm scheduled to have the S-Cards replaced with M-Cards on Monday. This is not costing me anything... but my question is - do I really need to bother? Will I get any additional functionality or channels with the M-Cards? I see now that I'm going to need/pay for 2 cards anyway...

Should I cancel the call?

TIA!

J


----------



## Bierboy

jsnow789 said:


> I've got an original S3 with 2 S-Cards. It's been working fine for a few years. I did have problems with the Central Florida Bright House HD fiasco last year-but those channels are back. I'm scheduled to have the S-Cards replaced with M-Cards on Monday. This is not costing me anything... but my question is - do I really need to bother? Will I get any additional functionality or channels with the M-Cards? I see now that I'm going to need/pay for 2 cards anyway...
> 
> Should I cancel the call?
> 
> TIA!
> 
> J


Absolutely NO reason to have those cards replaced. It will give you no additional functionality or extra channels.


----------



## jsnow789

Bierboy said:


> Absolutely NO reason to have those cards replaced. It will give you no additional functionality or extra channels.


That's what I was thinking after reading the last few pages of this thread.

Thanks!


----------



## Bierboy

jsnow789 said:


> That's what I was thinking after reading the last few pages of this thread.
> 
> Thanks!


My opinion is "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." I've had CableCARDS in my original S3 for almost a year now with nary a glitch. I enjoy many digital HD channels with it and I only pay $1.99/month/card more to get nearly 30 HD channels. Why should I tinker with that?


----------



## drhankz

jsnow789 said:


> That's what I was thinking after reading the last few pages of this thread.
> 
> Thanks!


The only reason to POSSIBLY switch from 2-S cards to 1-M Card
might be to SAVE MONEY. It all depends on your cable Company. 
Everyone is different. Some charge for each card - so ONE card
might be less than two cards - but only your cable company knows
that answer.


----------



## Bierboy

drhankz said:


> The only reason to POSSIBLY switch from 2-S cards to 1-M Card
> might be to SAVE MONEY. It all depends on your cable Company.
> Everyone is different. Some charge for each card - so ONE card
> might be less than two cards - but only your cable company knows
> that answer.


He can't do that....the original S3 requires 2 cards, no matter what type, if he wants to utilize both tuners.


----------



## drhankz

Bierboy said:


> He can't do that....the original S3 requires 2 cards, no matter what type, if he wants to utilize both tuners.


I didn't know that - I thought he was having 2-S Cards 
Replaced with 1-M Card.

I only OWN TiVO-HDs which can do that.

I looked at his original post and it did say Cards for Cards.

It's early need more COFFEE


----------



## RichardM

I am considering the purchase of a Tivo HD, Tivo Service and OTA HD Antenna.
To receive more HD channels I could get the cable card from my local cable company.
I called Cox Cable, my present cable service company and asked them for the cost of a Cable Card. 
They told me to use their Cable Card with a Tivo HD DVR and OTA HD Antenna I would have to pay the following:
$48.99 Standard Service
$5.99 Digital Service
$1.99 Cable Card
Cox states that I cannot use the Cable Card unless I also pay the cost of their Standard Service and Digital Service.
Can anyone verify that this is correct? 

$57 per month for the use of a Cable Card seems expensive to me.


----------



## a68oliver

The CableCard isn't costing you $57. You also get access to CABLE channels. That is where the bullk of the charges are coming from. Paying for the HD Digital Service and CableCard gives you access to the digital versions of those CABLE channels.

A CableCard won't give you more HD OTA channels. It gives you digital CABLE channels when you subscribe to CABLE.

Are you already paying Cox for cable service? If so, then you only pay them another $7.98. This assumes you are not on a lower cost limited basic plan.


----------



## kdmorse

Just wanted to come back and thank everyone for this FAQ thread. The following sentence:



> Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. The field is "Val ?" If the card is validated, the field will start with a "V" (e.g. V 0x00). If not, there will be no "V" (e.g. 0x00)


probably singularly prevented the need for a truck roll last weekend.

-Ken


----------



## tripmaster

Hi all - one of my cable cards died as only 1 tuner gets anything; the other tuner only gets broadcast channels - but from going through the menus they both seem to be active. I no longer see EMM Count, etc anywhere - I upgraded to M cards on my S3 bc I heard here that they are more reliable.

TWCNYC is coming tomorrow. I'd like him to only pull one card but I dont have faith he can figure out which one is live and which one is hobbled. Can someone advise?


----------



## MacSkip

You might want to check out the thread "no video and rapid beeping" in the TiVo Help Center forum. I'm relatively new with my S3 HD set (with 2 CCs) and had a totally unexpected beeping when I turned on the TV about a month ago. We've had the unit for about three months and all has gone well up to then. The beeping happened again last evening. I searched for "beeping" in this forum and found nothing, but one did pop up in the Help Center, so I've been posting there. However the suggestion given to me by TiVo support was that one (or both) of the CableCARDS *may* be the culprit. If you're interested, follow up there. (There's probably a way to put a link to that forum here, but since I'm new to the TiVo community, I haven't bumped into that mechanism, if it exists.)


----------



## brettatk

I had to clear and delete everything a few weeks back on my Tivo HD when I replaced my hard drive. Now periodically my Tivo becomes unresponsive and you must pull the plug to reboot it. I discovered that the host ID has changed on the cablecards and they are no longer validated and Tivo thinks this is my problem. Is this something Charter can easily do over the phone or will I need a truck rollout?


----------



## richsadams

brettatk said:


> I had to clear and delete everything a few weeks back on my Tivo HD when I replaced my hard drive. Now periodically my Tivo becomes unresponsive and you must pull the plug to reboot it. I discovered that the host ID has changed on the cablecards and they are no longer validated and Tivo thinks this is my problem. Is this something Charter can easily do over the phone or will I need a truck rollout?


Some cableco's will "re-hit" or "re-authorize" your cable cards over the phone. Others require a truck roll. Luck of the draw (even within some cable companies...depending on locale).


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> Some cableco's will "re-hit" or "re-authorize" your cable cards over the phone. Others require a truck roll. Luck of the draw (even within some cable companies...depending on locale).


I have never heard of a TRUCK ROLL to just Hit the
Cable Cards with NEW KEYS. If that were the case 
I would have had 100 Truck Rolls, versus NONE.

My Recommendation is SAY NO

There certainly is NO NEED.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> I have never heard of a TRUCK ROLL to just Hit the
> Cable Cards with NEW KEYS. If that were the case
> I would have had 100 Truck Rolls, versus NONE.
> 
> My Recommendation is SAY NO
> 
> There certainly is NO NEED.


The OP needs to have the ID re-established. Some cableco's will allow their customers to do that over the phone, others won't. "Just say no" is not an option in some areas.

You've had your cable cards re-authorized 100 times?


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> The OP needs to have the ID re-established. Some cableco's will allow their customers to do that over the phone, others won't. "Just say no" is not an option in some areas.
> 
> You've had your cable cards re-authorized 100 times?


Over the last 5 years, yes - at least 100 times. But I also have (5)
Cable Cards. So that is like someone having (1) Cable Card for 5 Years 

It all comes down to how often you use them and how often the Cable-Co
decides to change their Encryption Keys. My Cable-Co use to refresh all
the KEYS at least once a month. Since 3 out of 5 of my Cable Cards get
infrequent use - They would MISS the Key update and I needed to call.
And the reason mine would miss the KEY update is because in my Theaters,
the Units are NOT just powered off - but actually disconnected from the
AC line.

With the Digital Transition, my Cable-Co must have lengthened their key
period. It is been 6 Months and no need for a KEY Update.


----------



## Need2Know

first, we were told by both a comcast rep and a tech that we could pick up cablecards at the comcast office. guess what? you can't. they have to schedule a tech to come out and do it. seems like the tech would have known that. so, now it'll be 19 days before a tech can get out. comcast is beyond the pale. i can't even describe how aggravating. ah! thread hijack, and vent, over.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> Over the last 5 years, yes - at least 100 times. But I also have (5)
> Cable Cards. So that is like someone having (1) Cable Card for 5 Years
> 
> It all comes down to how often you use them and how often the Cable-Co
> decides to change their Encryption Keys. My Cable-Co use to refresh all
> the KEYS at least once a month. Since 3 out of 5 of my Cable Cards get
> infrequent use - They would MISS the Key update and I needed to call.
> And the reason mine would miss the KEY update is because in my Theaters,
> the Units are NOT just powered off - but actually disconnected from the
> AC line.
> 
> With the Digital Transition, my Cable-Co must have lengthened their key
> period. It is been 6 Months and no need for a KEY Update.


WOW!  What a PIA! In all of the years we've had cable cards we've not once had to refresh/re-authorize them. What a nightmare. You have our sympathy.


----------



## SheliaP

Need2Know said:


> first, we were told by both a comcast rep and a tech that we could pick up cablecards at the comcast office. guess what? you can't. they have to schedule a tech to come out and do it. seems like the tech would have known that. so, now it'll be 19 days before a tech can get out. comcast is beyond the pale. i can't even describe how aggravating. ah! thread hijack, and vent, over.


Yah- I have along post about this problem in another thread. I was told twice using online chat that they would ship them to me. No they won't. Was told they were at an office- no they weren't. Was told of another office I could try- I said no thanks.

Very Frustrating, and very unnecessary- everything comcast is doing with this right now. I now have a truck/tech roll coming in 10 days (Oh no charge for all my problems)


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> WOW!  What a PIA! In all of the years we've had cable cards we've not once had to refresh/re-authorize them. What a nightmare. You have our sympathy.


It was one simple 30 second phone call to tech support.

I said HIT ME  and they DID - Fixed until the Next time.

It is probably my fault because I use Power Generators and I turn them off when not using the Theater.


----------



## brettatk

My problem still exists, but not as often. It seems about once a week I have to pull the plug on my Tivo. I'm hardly ever home during dispatch hours so I decided to give Charter a call while at work. I just got off the phone with them and had them send me a CCV hit instead of an initialization/pairing hit they had already sent previously. Hopefully this will revalidate my host and data id's. If not then I guess I'll call them back and try something else. U-Verse is almost here, I'm planning on switching to it once available so this will no longer be an issue. Hopefully this will work though.


----------



## brettatk

Didn't work, cards are still not validated. I guess I'm going to have to wait till I'm home during disbatch hours or sit it out until U-Verse is offered in my area. At least it's only happening about once a week, I just have to remember to check in the mornings in case I have to reboot so my evening shows will get recorded.


----------



## 10terabyte

I am sure this is in here somewhere, and I have been reading till my eyes hurt but I am going to ask anyway.

I just picked up the TivoHD, and have the TWC tech appointment tomorrow for the MCard install.

I am in Charlotte NC, and they do use SDV here. So, with a "Tru2Way" or "MCard" do I still need the SDV Tuning Adapter?

Thanks!


----------



## dlfl

10terabyte said:


> I am sure this is in here somewhere, and I have been reading till my eyes hurt but I am going to ask anyway.
> 
> I just picked up the TivoHD, and have the TWC tech appointment tomorrow for the MCard install.
> 
> I am in Charlotte NC, and they do use SDV here. So, with a "Tru2Way" or "MCard" do I still need the SDV Tuning Adapter?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes. Try to get the installer to bring one, if possible.

TiVo's cannot do Tru2Way with cable cards. This would not only handle the SDV upstream communications but would also allow ordering VOD and PPV via your TiVo. But it isn't designed in.

In my TWC area the installers can bring the TA with them. Apparently in other areas you have to order the TA separately via a web page, or some such folderol. Good Luck!


----------



## 10terabyte

Just to follow up, the tech showed up with the TA (thank goodness) and the entire install only took about 30 mins. Most of that time he was training another installer on cablecards. 

TWC sent a firmware update to the SA CableCard, so that took about 15 mins. 

After the install was complete, I surfed a few channels and they all seemed fine.

Last night, my wife and I were watching TV and we came across 2 channels (CNN and TravelHD) that weren't accesible. We got a message saying "Temporarily Unavailalbe". I told my wife that this was very likely due to TWC (more specificlly, SDV) and not Tivo. I did ocasionally see those notes on the SA 8300HDC, but not usually on those channels.

We'll run for a few more days and see how smoothly things are, and report back. Thanks for the great thread!


----------



## jfh3

Just to let folks know, I'm *finally* getting around to updating the FAQ (first post). I've had a little incentive, since I had to do a clear and delete everything on an original Series 3 box, which of course breaks the CableCARD pairing.

Now I'm trying to find someone at Comcast who can actually update the data values and re-pair, re-validate the two SCards. I'd forgotten how frustrating it was 2.5 years ago before I finally convinced the CSR it could be done without a truck roll.

I'll turn this box into "Antenna Only" use before I let Comcast send an installer to read two numbers to someone over the phone.


----------



## brettatk

jfh3 said:


> Now I'm trying to find someone at Comcast who can actually update the data values and re-pair, re-validate the two SCards. I'd forgotten how frustrating it was 2.5 years ago before I finally convinced the CSR it could be done without a truck roll.


I am trying to do the same thing but with Charter. Could you please let me know exactly what you did or what Comcast did to fix this issue? I have not been home during disbatch hours but everything a regular Charter support technician can do has not worked. I do not want to have to pay for a truck roll. Thanks!


----------



## Lyrical1

FWIW, I recently purchased a refurbished HD XL and my first (biggish screen, 42 plasma) HD TV. After being a DTV-TiVo customer for several years and then (after a move  no satellite line of sight) a Comcast-TiVo customer for several years I took the plunge.

Of course I read up here on MCard issues. I got the HD XL box online and let it update itself for a week before the installer appointment.

Bottom line: Im really happy with my purchases. HD is pretty amazing and makes watching TV much more compelling. (However, I have mixed feelings about whether thats a good thing or not!  )

What surprised me was something my Comcast installer told me. This guy is a verified employee of Comcast (not a contractor) and has been working for them for a few years. *He told me that he installs a CableCard about once every three or four months and that he didnt recall ever installing one in a TiVo.*

It was good to have the one-page sheet that TiVo provides with instructions. At first he acted as though he knew exactly how to do the installation, but after several false starts it was clear he didnt know what he was doing.

After a few phone calls to his central office and my help in strongly suggesting he read the instructions slowly and carefully, everything is working fine. Im able to do everything I expected, just like my almost three-year-old Series 2 connected to a Comcast box via the serial port  except now I can watch and record any of the HD channels on both tuners!

Its amazing to me now how terrible my 25 LCD computer monitor/TV in my office looks in SD. Maybe Ill be looking into getting another TiVo HD unit when the 3-year subscription expires early next year. (The bastards: You think youre out and then they pull you back  )


----------



## oldnacl

Anyone in S FL with Concrap - Help! I've had my TiVo for 3 years and just recently purchased lifetime service. I think somehow Concrap got wind of this because this month my "CableCard HD (one way)" charge went from $1.50 per month to $13.90 ($6.95 for each CC) for "HDTV Service" (the $1.50 was additional for the second card - the first CC (or cable box rental) is supposedly included in the cost of the Digital Preferred subscription @ $19.95) 
I called Concrap and they said I had been charged incorrectly for the past 3 years and the correct charge is what's on my bill now. I asked about getting a "M" card to cut that "HDTV Service charge in half, but he claimed ignorance on M cards - end of conversation.
Is this the going rate nowadays? Or am I getting screwed (as usual) from the cable company?
Are there M cards available in S Florida? Anyone had one installed recently? I'm in Boynton Beach and I believe they go through the Delray Beach office.
Thanks for any advice.


----------



## dlfl

Lyrical1 said:


> .........What surprised me was something my Comcast installer told me. This guy is a verified employee of Comcast (not a contractor) and has been working for them for a few years. *He told me that he installs a CableCard about once every three or four months and that he didnt recall ever installing one in a TiVo.*
> ....... )


My TWC installer told me something similar back in July. Later I learned that TiVo Digital Cable subscribers are about *0.5%* of all digital subscribers on a national basis. Consider that plus they can't make any money from us for VOD or PPV or renting us one of their DVR's and draw your own conclusion.


----------



## brian5s

I am in South Florida and have Comcast. I have one M-Card. They charge me a fortune to have Tivo! It really is price gouging if you ask me. They just want you to rent their HD DVR box instead. It's outrageous! The channels drop off of the card and they have no idea why! It drives me nuts! I am at my wits end with Comcast. Once we get Uverse of Fios, I'm gone!


----------



## scooterboy

Jeez this thread scares me. A new TivoHD is on the way to replace the Comcast HD DVR I'm currently using.

My one ray of hope is that any time I've had a Comcast tech out, the experience has been excellent. I think we must have a good local office here.

I'll report back no matter how it goes.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Jeez this thread scares me. A new TivoHD is on the way to replace the Comcast HD DVR I'm currently using.
> 
> My one ray of hope is that any time I've had a Comcast tech out, the experience has been excellent. I think we must have a good local office here.
> 
> I'll report back no matter how it goes.


Yes - I'm in Salem, NH - I imagine we are served by 
the same office. I have 5 SONY DVRs with Cable Cards
and one TiVo. Comcast tech support has been great.


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Yes - I'm in Salem, NH - I imagine we are served by
> the same office. I have 5 SONY DVRs with Cable Cards
> and one TiVo. Comcast tech support has been great.


My techs come from Exeter. Always knowledgeable, never a bad experience. :up:


----------



## jlib

dlfl said:


> ...Later I learned that TiVo Digital Cable subscribers are about *0.5%* of all digital subscribers on a national basis...


I think it is also true that among TiVo Series 3 users there is a much, much higher percentage of premium package subscriptions than all digital subscribers nationwide.


----------



## scooterboy

scooterboy said:


> Jeez this thread scares me. A new TivoHD is on the way to replace the Comcast HD DVR I'm currently using.
> 
> My one ray of hope is that any time I've had a Comcast tech out, the experience has been excellent. I think we must have a good local office here.
> 
> I'll report back no matter how it goes.


I'm reporting back, and it's not good news.

I pre-prepared the TivoHD (got the latest software version, did the guided setup with "no cable cards yet", etc) so it was ready for the cable card when the tech got here.

First bad sign - it was a contractor, not a true comcast tech. He had a Motorola M-card. Inserted it, called HQ with the numbers from the card, and I'm getting no channels. None at all. Tech tried different things - rebooted, redid guided setup, etc. Nothing worked. He eventually had to leave.

The Conditional Access screen says Val: V0x00, so I guess it's validated. BUT, I don't even SEE the "Auth" field anywhere. Shouldn't I be seeing that with a Motorola Card?

Thought I'd ask here in case it's something easy, before calling Comcast.

EDIT TO ADD: I just figured out that I'm getting basic cable (channels 2-23) on one tuner, and no channels on the other. What does that mean?


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> I'm reporting back, and it's not good news.


FWIW it just sounds like a bad cable card to IMHO. If TiVo is getting basic cable it's probably working fine.

It's possible that the card needs to be re-initialized (re-hit) but it's more likely a bad card. Did the installer try other cable cards? There are many, many stories of installers trying as many as a dozen cable cards before finding one that worked. Seems like they think it has something to do with the owner's equipment (TiVo, flat-panel TV or whatever) and just take the cards that didn't work back to the office and toss them in a bin for someone else to try.

When we had Comcast we lucked out on the last install because everything worked but prior to that one they had to try three cards before one would work. The tech acknowledged that he usually had to try a "few to get a good one".

I'd call Comcast and have them try re-hitting the card but if that doesn't work they need to come back out . Tell them to be sure that the tech has several cable cards in his or her truck to try out.

Best of luck and keep us posted!


----------



## scooterboy

I had them rehit it last night, and once again this morning. Neither worked, so I scheduled another visit for tuesday morning. This time I specified that I wanted someone very experienced with cable cards and tivo. She said she would request that.

I was looking at the diagnostic screens for the tuner that does work and the signal strength is only 42, and the SNR is 28. I told her to put that in the notes for the visit as well.

The other thing I noticed is that on the Conditional Access screen, I get the usual fields displaying but only until the VAL: V00x0. There are no more lines of text after that. So I don't even see the field for AUTH at all.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> I was looking at the diagnostic screens for the tuner that does work and the signal strength is only 42, and the SNR is 28. I told her to put that in the notes for the visit as well.


That's a serious problem. Until the signal strength is up to 65 or higher (ideally 80+) you won't be able to receive anything. SNR is low, but not anything that would cause you too much grief (ideal is around 32).

Is there anything between the cable/coax and TiVo? Splitters, amps, anything at all? If so try to remove it/them and see if you can't get a direct connection between your coax and TiVo. If the signal strength jumps up you've found the culprit.

So, long story short, it may not be the cable card, but something is definitely wrong with the signal.


----------



## scooterboy

Cable enters basement, then:

1) Splitter 1: one output to cable modem, one to phone modem, one to cable amp then splitter 2.
2) Splitter 2: one line to basement outlets, one line split to kitchen and bedroom, one line to living room splitter 3.
3) Splitter 3: 4-way to Comcast DVR, TV, DVD recorder, and new TivoHD.


----------



## lrhorer

dlfl said:


> My TWC installer told me something similar back in July. Later I learned that TiVo Digital Cable subscribers are about *0.5%* of all digital subscribers on a national basis. Consider that plus they can't make any money from us for VOD or PPV or renting us one of their DVR's and draw your own conclusion.


They don't make any money renting you a DVR. The Cisco DVRs cost TWC $450 each in the quantities in which they buy them. (I happen to know this for a fact, or at least it was true last July.) I think most franchises lease the DVR for about $20 a month. At that rate, breaking even takes 22.5 months, which is probably longer than the average life of one of the units, and that does not take into account the cost of the software (which is separate), delivery, and maintenance. I doubt if they see a profit in under 3 years, which means not at all, since I imagine the life expectancy is less than that. Lease units are not handled carefully by consumers. What's more, if we take out the $3 a month they charge for a CableCard and then add back the $25 they pay for the CableCard, we are left with $17 a month to cover a $425 difference, or 25 months to make up the difference. Add it all together, and it probably takes more than 40 months for them to see a profit on the leased unit over what they get from the Tivo. Even if they actually ever do make a profit on leasing a DVR, it's a trifling amount. IPPV is another matter, though. I've seen IPPV bills of $600 a month. The cost and trouble of supporting the TiVo is also a major consideration. So no, they aren't thrilled tyo have to support TiVos, but it's not because they make money on DVR rentals.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> I had them rehit it last night, and once again this morning. Neither worked, so I scheduled another visit for tuesday morning. This time I specified that I wanted someone very experienced with cable cards and tivo. She said she would request that.
> 
> I was looking at the diagnostic screens for the tuner that does work and the signal strength is only 42, and the SNR is 28. I told her to put that in the notes for the visit as well.
> 
> The other thing I noticed is that on the Conditional Access screen, I get the usual fields displaying but only until the VAL: V00x0. There are no more lines of text after that. So I don't even see the field for AUTH at all.


I AGREE with Rich 100% - the CableCard shuts down if the signal is too
weak or too strong. I have seen them shut down with a signal level of 95+

Even if your cablecard where 100% good - you nailed the problem.


----------



## dlfl

drhankz said:


> ........ the CableCard shuts down if the signal is too
> weak or too strong. I have seen them shut down with a signal level of 95+
> ......


Does this apply to Cisco (SA) CableCARD's? That's what I have and about one third of my channels have signal levels of 100 but no problem with CC's shutting down. I would prefer to attenuate down to 99 or less but if I do that, some channels go below 80.


----------



## drhankz

dlfl said:


> Does this apply to Cisco (SA) CableCARD's? That's what I have and about one third of my channels have signal levels of 100 but no problem with CC's shutting down. I would prefer to attenuate down to 99 or less but if I do that, some channels go below 80.


I know it is true for Motorola Cards.

A Simple 6db Attenuator from Radio Shack can tell you if it HELPS or Not. 
With Moto it would for sure.

85 is the sweet spot for moto. I have 6 DVRs and I made sure the signal
level was 85 at Each. I bought a big selection of in-line attenuations 
from MONOPRICE dot Com


----------



## dlfl

drhankz said:


> I know it is true for Motorola Cards.
> 
> A Simple 6db Attenuator from Radio Shack can tell you if it HELPS or Not.
> With Moto it would for sure.
> 
> 85 is the sweet spot for moto. I have 6 DVRs and I made sure the signal
> level was 85 at Each. I bought a big selection of in-line attenuations
> from MONOPRICE dot Com


I've already tried attenuators. The problem is you can't usually get the signal level at 85 for *all* channels. In my case the sig strength varies about 25 units betwen weak and strong channels. If I attenuate to get the strong signals in the 95 - 99 range, I have weak signals at around 68. I thought best overall performance was with no attenuation.

I suppose I could demand TWC come out and make my signal levels more uniform over all the channels, but (1) I lack confidence they would do more good than harm and (2) I don't believe the pixelation problems I see only on SDV channels are related to signal levels -- the RS error counts are always zero and SNR's are 32 to 36 dB. Here is a post that describes what I think is really happening.

I think CC shutdowns for signal levels of 95+ must apply only to Motorola CC's.


----------



## drhankz

dlfl said:


> I've already tried attenuators. The problem is you can't usually get the signal level at 85 for *all* channels. In my case the sig strength varies about 25 units betwen weak and strong channels. If I attenuate to get the strong signals in the 95 - 99 range, I have weak signals at around 68. I thought best overall performance was with no attenuation.
> 
> I suppose I could demand TWC come out and make my signal levels more uniform over all the channels, but (1) I lack confidence they would do more good than harm and (2) I don't believe the pixelation problems I see only on SDV channels are related to signal levels -- the RS error counts are always zero and SNR's are 32 to 36 dB. Here is a post that describes what I think is really happening.
> 
> I think CC shutdowns for signal levels of 95+ must apply only to Motorola CC's.


You can try asking TWC - or you can do it yourself if you are inclined.

FIRST - The Best Practice is to HOME RUN each Cable back to the Source. 
I know - Sometimes that is impractical. I said it was the Best Practice.

SECOND - you can get a CATV amplifier that allows you change the 
Amplification slope. They usually refer to it as "TILT".

High Frequency channels are Attenuated much faster than low Freq. 
Even TWC can not even the Signals without a TILT Amp.

THIRD - I bought myself an inexpensive Spectrum Analyzer so that 
I can see how the channels are attenuated. ANY Cable Tech should 
come with the EXPENSIVE kind I'd love to get my hands on 

It is a non-trivial problem especially with BIG HOUSES and LOTS 
of Drops - that is why I did it myself. Too Complicated even for the
Local Comcast Techs.


----------



## dlfl

drhankz said:


> You can try asking TWC - or you can do it yourself if you are inclined.
> 
> FIRST - The Best Practice is to HOME RUN each Cable back to the Source.
> I know - Sometimes that is impractical. I said it was the Best Practice.
> 
> SECOND - you can get a CATV amplifier that allows you change the
> Amplification slope. They usually refer to it as "TILT".
> 
> High Frequency channels are Attenuated much faster than low Freq.
> Even TWC can not even the Signals without a TILT Amp.
> 
> THIRD - I bought myself an inexpensive Spectrum Analyzer so that
> I can see how the channels are attenuated. ANY Cable Tech should
> come with the EXPENSIVE kind I'd love to get my hands on
> 
> It is a non-trivial problem especially with BIG HOUSES and LOTS
> of Drops - that is why I did it myself. Too Complicated even for the
> Local Comcast Techs.


Interesting - thanks! As I said, I don't think I have any problems related to signal strength, so I have no incentive to go to that much trouble. Very few users would (or could) do all that IMO.

I don't know what kind of equipment my TWC tech would come with but I've read elsewhere that they typically only spot check a few channels. Just out of curiosity, how much is an "inexpensive" spectrum analyzer, and what are its basic specs? Does it have a graphic display similar to an equalizer?


----------



## drhankz

dlfl said:


> Just out of curiosity, how much is an "inexpensive" spectrum analyzer, and what are its basic specs? Does it have a graphic display similar to an equalizer?


I use a *Channel Vision M2000*

I don't think I paid $200 when I bought mine. You can find them on
the NET for $250 now. I guess prices have gone up.

The Cable guys bring one that is worth many THOUSANDS of Dollars.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Cable enters basement, then:
> 
> 1) Splitter 1: one output to cable modem, one to phone modem, one to cable amp then splitter 2.
> 2) Splitter 2: one line to basement outlets, one line split to kitchen and bedroom, one line to living room splitter 3.
> 3) Splitter 3: 4-way to Comcast DVR, TV, DVD recorder, and new TivoHD.


Yikes! Good info though. Somewhere in the mix there's a problem. Since the connection to your TiVo HD is the very last link in the chain of splits and drops it's most likely that the signal strength is so attenuated/degradated that it just isn't strong enough. Other equipment may work fine with such a low signal, but not TiVo. So it sounds like something is not working properly. It may be as simple as a loose connection (they should all be more than finger-tight), one or more of the splitters, the amp and/or one or more of the coax cables or possibly a faulty coax connector...or some combination.

Ideally you want a direct and pristine connection from the incoming cable feed to TiVo. If that's not possible it should have as few splitters as practical, no signal amps, etc. Every time something is introduced into the mix it presents another point of degradation or failure (even a signal amp can corrupt things).

Is there any chance (temporarily) to connect the incoming cable directly to the line that goes to TiVo, either via a simple female/female coupler or a small splitter (w/o anything else attached)? That would give you an almost clean connection to TiVo. If so you should see everything resolved providing that all of the coax, connections, coupler (or splitter) and the cable card are good.

If that works, based on your well-documented layout (and if you have nothing else to do), you should be able to do some rearranging to meet the goal. In other words, put TiVo at the top of the food chain by shifting other connections to a lower level. That might just do it. Otherwise you'll need to start the process of elimination; removing each piece and replacing it with one that is either new or known to be good. Of course you could just wait as the cable tech can do that when they visit plus they'll have the proper diagnostic equipment to measure each output. Tell them your TiVo is the priority and all of the connections need to be as clean as possible.

Hope that helps!


----------



## scooterboy

Well we'll see what the next tech says tomorrow morning.

Would not be hard to run a new cable straight from the amp in the basement to the new tivo in the living room. I've already run other cables up through the floor in that spot for other things. So if that's what's needed we should be good.

Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## Xcelsior

Just wanted to add a thanks and share a success story with Comcast here in Atlanta.

First, thanks to all who pioneered this process and shared your challenges and discoveries. I've no doubt the warnings and insights you provided helped make this process as smooth as it was. 

Comcast sent out a tech (arrived on time) who had brought two m-cards with him. He'd obviously installed them in a Tivo before as he put aside the cheat sheet I'd laid out, opened the front panel on my TiVoHD and put the card in the correct slot the first try. He'd already had the m-card's number recorded and then proceeded to record the necessary information from the Tivo set-up screen. 

It appears that comcast is using a new process as instead of having to call in and give the various serial numbers to people, he entered them into his Windows Mobile device. This will apparently kick off an email to the central office so they can 'hit' the card. And they can just copy/paste the numbers from the email rather than having to key it in manually. So long as the tech inputs them correctly, it seems to be a better system for ensuring the accuracy of the data. Kudos for Comcast on that.

The tech then queried what level of service I had, and changed the channel to a premium one I should be receiving. When it was dark, he immediately called the office, confirmed all the info had been received, ran downstairs to double check the channels were fine on the (non-HD) TV/Tivo in the living room and had the person on the other end of the phone hit the card again. That did the trick and in less than 30 minutes, I had a working TivoHD getting all the channels it should.

So while I'm sure there are some bad techs out there, if you're in Atlanta, see if they can send Mario out to set up your Tivo. He'll do great.


----------



## scooterboy

My (2) Comcast techs arrived at 9:30 this morning, and just left (it's 3pm). Yup - 5.5 hours. And I still don't have a working TivoHD.

The techs were fairly knowledgable, but kept insisting that any HD Tivo with "front-loading" cable cards had to have two cards, even if they were both M-cards. I tried to tell them about all the cases I'd seen documented in these forums that are successfully using 1 M-card in their TivoHDs, but they said the "front-loaders" were finicky and wanted two cards. I won that battle when they put in a second M-card and the setup screen said it would be ignored. 

The symptom of the first card installed a few days ago was tuner 0 got no channels at all (no program lock), and tuner 1 only got channels up to 23. With no cards at all, the tivo could get all analog channels up into the 70's.

So we tried the new card they brought and got the the exact same result, after much calling and rechecking card ID's and rehitting the cards.

I called the Tivo cable card hotline and talked to a nice gentleman who suggested that there were two distinct problems: 1) tuner 0 wasn't getting any channels possibly because the headend has it configured as a single stream card (the techs thought this unlikely), and 2) the card is not acknowledging the cable lineup I subscribe to, only giving me basic cable.

Not sure I believe #1, and #2 seems pretty obvious.

I also asked him about signal strength, and he said anything 50 or above should at least allow the card to accept the lineup info from the front end, but a higher strength would certainly be better. We were at 50 at this time, and techs were saying they were reading very high strength on the line from their portable scanning equipment.

The techs didn't like a "drop off" that they were seeing on the line, so they replaced the cable from the pole across the street all the way up to my house with new cable that was quite a bit thicker than the original cable. they again used their portable scanner and claimed a gain of 3db from the new cable. I forgot to check the signal strength after they did this, and I don't want to fire up the projector just for that so I'll report that back later. I have no idea how much a 3 db gain will boost the signal strength on the 1-100 scale that Tivo is reporting. Hopefully it will be closer to 85 now.

They left after telling me they were going to get Jim the "cable card guru" to take over the case. They said he has more knowledge and access to more settings than the people that usually set up and hit the cable cards.

So I'm waiting for Jim to call in the next few days and set up a 3rd service call.

I'm a bit discouraged. If Jim can't help, then I may just bag the whole thing and send the tivo back.

I'll report back after Jim comes and goes.


----------



## Grumock

scooterboy said:


> My (2) Comcast techs arrived at 9:30 this morning, and just left (it's 3pm). Yup - 5.5 hours. And I still don't have a working TivoHD.
> 
> The techs were fairly knowledgable, but kept insisting that any HD Tivo with "front-loading" cable cards had to have two cards, even if they were both M-cards. I tried to tell them about all the cases I'd seen documented in these forums that are successfully using 1 M-card in their TivoHDs, but they said the "front-loaders" were finicky and wanted two cards. I won that battle when they put in a second M-card and the setup screen said it would be ignored.
> 
> The symptom of the first card installed a few days ago was tuner 0 got no channels at all (no program lock), and tuner 1 only got channels up to 23. With no cards at all, the tivo could get all analog channels up into the 70's.
> 
> So we tried the new card they brought and got the the exact same result, after much calling and rechecking card ID's and rehitting the cards.
> 
> I called the Tivo cable card hotline and talked to a nice gentleman who suggested that there were two distinct problems: 1) tuner 0 wasn't getting any channels possibly because the headend has it configured as a single stream card (the techs thought this unlikely), and 2) the card is not acknowledging the cable lineup I subscribe to, only giving me basic cable.
> 
> Not sure I believe #1, and #2 seems pretty obvious.
> 
> I also asked him about signal strength, and he said anything 50 or above should at least allow the card to accept the lineup info from the front end, but a higher strength would certainly be better. We were at 50 at this time, and techs were saying they were reading very high strength on the line from their portable scanning equipment.
> 
> The techs didn't like a "drop off" that they were seeing on the line, so they replaced the cable from the pole across the street all the way up to my house with new cable that was quite a bit thicker than the original cable. they again used their portable scanner and claimed a gain of 3db from the new cable. I forgot to check the signal strength after they did this, and I don't want to fire up the projector just for that so I'll report that back later. I have no idea how much a 3 db gain will boost the signal strength on the 1-100 scale that Tivo is reporting. Hopefully it will be closer to 85 now.
> 
> They left after telling me they were going to get Jim the "cable card guru" to take over the case. They said he has more knowledge and access to more settings than the people that usually set up and hit the cable cards.
> 
> So I'm waiting for Jim to call in the next few days and set up a 3rd service call.
> 
> I'm a bit discouraged. If Jim can't help, then I may just bag the whole thing and send the tivo back.
> 
> I'll report back after Jim comes and goes.


Easy thing to check is on the CA screen in the cable card menu. Are they using Motorola cards or SA cards? If SA then you should be seeing at the bottom of the screen "EMMS processed & it should be 39" If it is motorola cards then on the CA screen (Conditional Access) you should be looking for these three things "Con or Connected/ EBCP/ Host validation or VAl". First two should say yes & the Val or Host Validation should say V. If the Con or connected status says no & Val say ? then it is likely that the card may not be registered in the DAC. If for some reason they are using SA cards & your EMMs processed are at 0-2 then the card is not staged in the DNCS & the Head End needs to be contacted so they can send the MODDHCTCONFIG-S command to the MAC address of the card. The other thing you would want to check if they are using SA cards is the CP screen. You should be seeing at the top of the page CP authorization received. If it says waiting for CP authorization that is also an issue that could be directly related to the card not being staged in the DNCS.

Normally when you are not getting channels above 25 then it is because of one of these reason which in turn means that the card is not truly authorized.


----------



## scooterboy

Grumock said:


> Easy thing to check is on the CA screen in the cable card menu. Are they using Motorola cards or SA cards?


This is the other thing that hasn't changed since we started, including with the second M-card.

It's a Motorola M-card, and In the CA screen it does say CON:Yes, EBCP: Yes, and VAL: V0x00 (or something like that). However that is the LAST line on the CA screen. There is nothing below that - no AUTH field at all, for instance. When I asked the Tivo Cablecard Hotline guy about that, he said that the AUTH field won't appear until the card is authorized to act as a digital tuner, and the fact that it's not there verifies that it's still acting as analog.

Does that sound correct?


----------



## dlfl

No, more info should be there, see this TiVo support page (and select the type of CC that applies to your case)


----------



## Grumock

Yes it should have more information under that. It at least sounds like the card is registered in the DAC. Now if you go to the network setup screen are you able to see messages? Take note of the number of messages & leave that screen & then go back in to see if it is changing. That will tell you if it is communicating to the DAC. I am going to say sorry now for this stupid question. You have rebooted the TIVo since the last M card was installed? Sounds so far like to me that they have not sent the appropriate hits to the card. There tends to be a sequence in which they need to send them from what i understand as well. Initialize/host validation/ & then refresh services. If i am not mistaken that Val status should change as well to V0x0* that * could be a 1 or 2 if i am not mistaken.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> My (2) Comcast techs arrived at 9:30 this morning, and just left (it's 3pm). Yup - 5.5 hours. And I still don't have a working TivoHD


TiVo with a single "M: card works great in Salem, NH on Comcast. 
In fact I have 6 DVRs with "M" Cards

Kingston is just to far in the woods :up:


----------



## scooterboy

dlfl said:


> No, more info should be there, see this TiVo support page (and select the type of CC that applies to your case)


I had already printed that screen out and showed it to the techs. I pointed to the AUTH field and said "this field needs to show as S before the cable card will work. We're not even seeing that part of the page." They didn't seem to care about that.



Grumock said:


> Yes it should have more information under that. It at least sounds like the card is registered in the DAC. Now if you go to the network setup screen are you able to see messages? Take note of the number of messages & leave that screen & then go back in to see if it is changing. That will tell you if it is communicating to the DAC.


Yes - every time I go into the Network screen the number of messages has increased.



> I am going to say sorry now for this stupid question. You have rebooted the TIVo since the last M card was installed? Sounds so far like to me that they have not sent the appropriate hits to the card. There tends to be a sequence in which they need to send them from what i understand as well. Initialize/host validation/ & then refresh services. If i am not mistaken that Val status should change as well to V0x0* that * could be a 1 or 2 if i am not mistaken.


Yes, it's V0x01. It seems like we tried every combination of sending hits to the card, rebooting, redoing guided setup. Like I said, they were here 5.5 hours. 

I'm really hoping the "cable card guru" they have escalated me to knows what he's doing. I'm waiting for him to contact me to schedule a visit.


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> TiVo with a single "M: card works great in Salem, NH on Comcast.
> In fact I have 6 DVRs with "M" Cards
> 
> Kingston is just to far in the woods :up:


Can I refer Comcast to your installation for reference?


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Can I refer Comcast to your installation for reference?


I'm sure I am not the only one in the NH Comast Territory.

I have GREAT Techs that made everything work - they made it feel simple.


----------



## scooterboy

scooterboy said:


> I'm really hoping the "cable card guru" they have escalated me to knows what he's doing. I'm waiting for him to contact me to schedule a visit.


He came today, and I still don't have a TivoHD with working cable cards. 

He tried two S-cards instead of the M-card and the symptoms are exactly the same - tuner 0 gets no channels/program lock at all, and tuner 1 only gets analog 2-23. The one thing that changed was the CA screen now shows all of the fields it's supposed to, even though the AUTH field says "Unknown".

He's now escalating my case to the "Super cable card/tivo guy" who is going to see if it's something in my local network that's causing the problem. If that doesn't help, he has a tivo set up and working in his office that he will bring to my house and see if it has the same problems pairing/authorizing as mine. If his has no problem, then my signal is adequate and I can only assume it's the tivo and I'll need to exchange it.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> If that doesn't help, he has a tivo set up and working in his office that he will bring to my house and see if it has the same problems pairing/authorizing as mine. If his has no problem, then my signal is adequate and I can only assume it's the tivo and I'll need to exchange it.


If only ALL cableco's had that capability (and dedication)! It does sound more and more like there is a tuner problem in your TiVo. Rare but not unheard of. Thanks for keeping us up to date! :up:


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> If that doesn't help, he has a tivo set up and working in his office that he will bring to my house and see if it has the same problems pairing/authorizing as mine. If his has no problem, then my signal is adequate and I can only assume it's the tivo and I'll need to exchange it.


OH NO - TWICE in one Month I am AGREEING with Rich. This is FUN 

It is sounding more and more like it is a TiVo Problem.

This past week - I was getting some pixilation on my CableCard
DVRs including TiVo. I have each Theater DROP Specially set up
to make sure Signal Strength is set to be 90%.

When I checked this week because of seeing the pixilation - all
6 of my DVRs where showing 100%. Comcast must have boosted 
the Signal Strength out in the street. If they stay at 100%, I'll
knock it down a few DB to get it back to 90%.

Has any of the TECH used their real spectrum analyzer to look
at your signal at the TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> OH NO - TWICE in one Month I am AGREEING with Rich. This is FUN


 I already told you...stop drinking the Kool-Aid! 



drhankz said:


> It is sounding more and more like it is a TiVo Problem.
> 
> This past week - I was getting some pixilation on my CableCard
> DVRs including TiVo. I have each Theater DROP Specially set up
> to make sure Signal Strength is set to be 90%.
> 
> When I checked this week because of seeing the pixilation - all
> 6 of my DVRs where showing 100%. Comcast must have boosted
> the Signal Strength out in the street. If they stay at 100%, I'll
> knock it down a few DB to get it back to 90%.


A few months before we switched to FIOS Comcast definitely boosted the signal on our street. Prior SS would fluctuate between 92 and 98, maybe as low as 82 or so on some channels but suddenly everything was pegged at 100%. The only issues we saw were on Scripps channels (HGTV, etc.) which had some periodic pixelization. Two things coincided: added HD channels (reducing bandwidth and increased compression for each channel) as well as higher broadband speed. In the middle of the night download would go as high as 34Mbps! During the day it was another story though...apparently we have a lot of geeks on our block because it would drop to 12 to 14Mbps.  Glad to have a steady 20Mbps from VZ now.


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Has any of the TECH used their real spectrum analyzer to look
> at your signal at the TiVo.


I think the second tech(s) that came out did. They used some kind of little analyzer box, and didn't like a "drop off" that they were seeing. So they completely replaced the cable coming from across the street, up my driveway to my house with brand new (fatter) cable. But it didn't make any difference as far as the TivoHD was concerned.

I told those same two techs that you guys advised that the signal strength needed to be at least 85 according to the tivo diagnostic screen, but they said the signal was plenty strong and they thought any stronger would be "too hot", even though tivo reported it at only 56. I told the same thing to the third tech yesterday, and he said he'd mention that to the "expert cable card/tivo" guy that my case is being escalated to. He seemed to be more open to the advice from this forum than the second techs were.

I already have a signal amp in my basement that Comcast installed years ago, and the signal strength is still only 56. Are there different strength amps?


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> If only ALL cableco's had that capability (and dedication)! It does sound more and more like there is a tuner problem in your TiVo. Rare but not unheard of. Thanks for keeping us up to date! :up:


My TivoHD *is* "recertified" - I wonder if that was why it was returned in the first place?

I bought it on 11/5, so I only have until sometime next week to exchange it (I think). I did make one call to Tivo's cablecard hotline, so there should be a record of me having problems with it.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> I already have a signal amp in my basement that Comcast installed years ago, and the signal strength is still only 56. Are there different strength amps?


I know it sounds counter intuitive, but is there a way to remove the signal amp from the line going to TiVo? There have been reports over the years that signal amps ended up causing more problems (for TiVo) and once they were out of the loop things were good. Just a thought.



scooterboy said:


> My TivoHD *is* "recertified" - I wonder if that was why it was returned in the first place?
> 
> I bought it on 11/5, so I only have until sometime next week to exchange it (I think). I did make one call to Tivo's cablecard hotline, so there should be a record of me having problems with it.


Just to be safe I'd call TiVo and get a trouble ticket number. As long as you started the process under the 30 day warranty you should be fine, but having the number would be wise.

IIRC TiVoStephen (one of the TiVo employees that frequents the forum) said that all refurb units were fully bench tested prior to shipment. But of course something could have been missed.

Hopefully you can get this resolved soon! Best of luck and thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> I know it sounds counter intuitive, but is there a way to remove the signal amp from the line going to TiVo? There have been reports over the years that signal amps ended up causing more problems (for TiVo) and once they were out of the loop things were good. Just a thought.


Do you mean the signal might end up being higher than 56 if I skip the amp on that line, or are you referring to other types of problems that an amp might cause? I could skip the amp at least temporarily and see if it makes any difference.



> Just to be safe I'd call TiVo and get a trouble ticket number. As long as you started the process under the 30 day warranty you should be fine, but having the number would be wise.


Good idea. :up:


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Do you mean the signal might end up being higher than 56 if I skip the amp on that line, or are you referring to other types of problems that an amp might cause? I could skip the amp at least temporarily and see if it makes any difference.


It's possible that the signal could/would improve, yes. There are other issues amps can cause as well (besides "small garbage in, bigger garbage out"). TiVo tuners as well as cable cards can be very sensitive to a number of anomalies introduced into the line by amps. I'm not saying that it _will_ improve, but removing as many things as possible between the raw signal and TiVo (and being positive that the coax that carries it is as good as it can be) may make a difference.

However with all of the other info, I'm still leaning toward a TiVo tuner issue. Just wanted to see if taking the amp out of the loop might help.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> even though tivo reported it at only 56.


I'm not sure were the CableCard Locks itself down and stops 
receiving the signal - but I don't think it is far from the 56 level.

The Cable Amps Cable Companies give away are NOT USUALLY
GOOD ONES. Good Cable Amps cost money. My Installation here
covers a very big Area. I have spent a LOT of money on Cable
Amps to get the Signal Levels Correct.


----------



## HeatherA

I just finished reading this thread and I am extremely nervous about my upcoming cablecard install. Who would think that getting something as simple as a "card" working would be such a nightmare. I only hope that I am one of the lucky ones that gets it set up without a hitch. However, knowing my luck...


----------



## richsadams

HeatherA said:


> I just finished reading this thread and I am extremely nervous about my upcoming cablecard install. Who would think that getting something as simple as a "card" working would be such a nightmare. I only hope that I am one of the lucky ones that gets it set up without a hitch. However, knowing my luck...


There's really very little need to worry. People that have problems find there way here...the majority by far have no problems what so ever. Even if you scroll back you'll see many posts by people (like us) who said that they've never had any issues.

Give the cable tech the cable card installation sheet you received with your TiVo (also found at the link below) and as long as they follow it there really shouldn't be any issues.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135/c/105,110/r_id/100041

And here is a nice little video:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/cablecard-wizard/index.html

If something doesn't go right, TiVo Support can help and of course you can always come back here for help, but odds are everything will go fine.

Enjoy your new TiVo!


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> Give the cable tech the cable card installation sheet you received with your TiVo (also found at the link below) and as long as they follow it there really shouldn't be any issues.


Don't look now, but YOUR PANTS ARE ON FIRE!



The most recent tech is coming back tomorrow with the TivoHD that works in their office to try it on my account. If it doesn't work, then it's something on my line that's causing the problem. If it works, then it must be the tivo and I'll exchange it.

Either way, I hope this nightmare ends soon.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Don't look now, but YOUR PANTS ARE ON FIRE!


D'oh!  I have to admit that yours is one of the most unusual situations I've read about in a very long time. One way or the other you should be able to get this thing put to bed soon. :up:


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> The most recent tech is coming back tomorrow with the TivoHD that works in their office to try it on my account.


Is Tomorrow Wednesday or Thursday?


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Is Tomorrow Wednesday or Thursday?


He's on his way right now (12/2 10am EST).


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> He's on his way right now (12/2 10am EST).


Keep us POSTED


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Keep us POSTED


He just left. He did bring the Tivo S3 from Comcast's office and we hooked it up in my living room, using the exact same cable that fed my TivoHD. He then had the cable cards hit again to authorize them. Results:

My TivoHD: No channels on Tuner 0, analog channels 2-23 only on Tuner 1, Signal Strength 56
Comcast Tivo S3: all digital channels come in perfectly on both tuners, *Signal Strength 95/100*.

So I think that pretty much verifies that I have a bad TivoHD. For their Tivo S3 to get 95/100 signal strength on the same line on which my TivoHD gets only 56, is pretty good evidence, yes?

Now I have to call Tivo and arrange for an exchange.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> He just left. He did bring the Tivo S3 from Comcast's office and we hooked it up in my living room, using the exact same cable that fed my TivoHD. He then had the cable cards hit again to authorize them. Results:
> 
> My TivoHD: No channels on Tuner 0, analog channels 2-23 only on Tuner 1, Signal Strength 56
> Comcast Tivo S3: all digital channels come in perfectly on both tuners, *Signal Strength 95/100*.
> 
> So I think that pretty much verifies that I have a bad TivoHD. For their Tivo S3 to get 95/100 signal strength on the same line on which my TivoHD gets only 56, is pretty good evidence, yes?
> 
> Now I have to call Tivo and arrange for an exchange.


Call TiVo and GET another one *FOR SURE* after all this PAIN
They should do it WITHOUT a second of hestitation :up:

Comcast certainly went out of their way to FIX Tivo's Problem :up


----------



## scooterboy

Just got an RMA# for the exchange.

Comcast indeed went above and beyond:

1. They ran a new homerun line from my basement to my DVR location (3 hour visit).
2. They replaced the cable from the street to my house (2 techs for 5.5 hours).
3. They finally brought their "test tivo" to my house to verify mine was faulty.

All that in addition to the multiple attempts with multiple M-cards and S-cards.

I've always had good luck with the local Comcast techs.

Hopefully I'll report back in a week or two with better news.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> 1. They ran a new homerun line from my basement to my DVR location (3 hour visit).
> 2. They replaced the cable from the street to my house (2 techs for 5.5 hours).
> 3. They finally brought their "test tivo" to my house to verify mine was faulty.


Wow! You should have a pretty awesome signal once you get your new TiVo! Sorry to hear about the frustration...these things happen. But glad you've been able to resolve it.

Hope you'll be enjoying your new TiVo in no time and thanks very much for all of the follow-up posts! :up:


----------



## dlfl

scooterboy said:


> .........3. They finally brought their "test tivo" to my house .........


Wow! They have a "test TiVo" !?!? I bet TWC doesn't have one of those in their entire system. I'll give 100 to 1 odds my TWC region doesn't have one. (Payable when they bring it to my house for testing, of course.)


----------



## scooterboy

dlfl said:


> Wow! They have a "test TiVo" !?!? I bet TWC doesn't have one of those in their entire system. I'll give 100 to 1 odds my TWC region doesn't have one. (Payable when they bring it to my house for testing, of course.)


They not only have a test Tivo, but the last tech said that his boss talks directly to a couple of the lead technical people at Tivo on a regular basis. I imagine that connection had to be a result of Comcast putting the Tivo software on their Motorola boxes a while ago.


----------



## scooterboy

Replacement unit has arrived. I'm letting it warm up to room temperature before plugging it in. It was cooooold out on my steps.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Replacement unit has arrived. I'm letting it warm up to room temperature before plugging it in. It was cooooold out on my steps.


Good thing it wasn't sitting in tomorrow's SNOW :down:


----------



## dakotatt

"What buzz words should I use when speaking to my [Comcast] cable rep when I'm trying to explain to them what they need to do to properly pair/validate my cablecard?"

Still trying to figure this out....


----------



## drhankz

dakotatt said:


> "What buzz words should I use when speaking to my [Comcast] cable rep when I'm trying to explain to them what they need to do to properly pair/validate my cablecard?"
> 
> Still trying to figure this out....


I'm not being a wise guy here - Phone Reps know nothing
about pairing. In fact they can not access the people who
do. Only the INSTALLER can access ATS. The ATS people
know about pairing.


----------



## scooterboy

Set it up yesterday, and emailed the comcast tech that I was ready when he was. He had left me with the last two S-cards we tried, so today he had a rep call me to activate them.

I gave the rep the pairing info, and he hit the cards with the signal. I left it on the Conditional Access screen and we waited...and waited...and waited...nothing (Enabled by CP: No and AUTH: Unknown). He sent the signals again...nothing. I rebooted the tivo and he sent them again...nothing. We finally gave up and the tech will hopefully come on friday.

One big difference between this tivo and the faulty one I sent back - with the faulty one I could get channels 2-23 analog on one of the tuners. With the new tivo I can't get any channels at all when I go to Live TV - just a big ACCESSING CHANNEL INFO screen with a big spinning wheel.

My question: which one of those scenarios is "normal" for a unit pre-cablecard authorized?

I'm getting tired. Really tired.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Set it up yesterday, and emailed the comcast tech that I was ready when he was. He had left me with the last two S-cards we tried, so today he had a rep call me to activate them.
> 
> I gave the rep the pairing info, and he hit the cards with the signal. I left it on the Conditional Access screen and we waited...and waited...and waited...nothing (Enabled by CP: No and AUTH: Unknown). He sent the signals again...nothing. I rebooted the tivo and he sent them again...nothing. We finally gave up and the tech will hopefully come on friday.
> 
> One big difference between this tivo and the faulty one I sent back - with the faulty one I could get channels 2-23 analog on one of the tuners. With the new tivo I can't get any channels at all when I go to Live TV - just a big ACCESSING CHANNEL INFO screen with a big spinning wheel.
> 
> My question: which one of those scenarios is "normal" for a unit pre-cablecard authorized?
> 
> I'm getting tired. Really tired.


Do you want to come over and SEE how a NEW TiVo Works


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Do you want to come over and SEE how a NEW TiVo Works


Now that's just plain mean.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Now that's just plain mean.


I just figured after TWO TiVo Problem BOXES you must be *into* *mean*.

I can tell you a worse story that happened to me TODAY.

I OWN TWO Toyota Tacoma Trucks - 1996 and 2004.

BOTH TRUCKS are in PERFECT Condition - the 96 Truck I use as a
PLOW Truck - because the 2004 does not have a Frame sufficient
for a Plow.

I brought the 1996 Truck in for a Sticker today - REJECTED - Due 
to Frame Recall. TOYOTA wants to BUY the truck from me for MORE
than it is worth and SCRAP IT.

The 2nd Toyota is UNDER the same RECALL and goes in Monday for
a FRAME INSPECTION.

I know this is OFF TiVo Topic - But that is what I call MEAN


----------



## schipperke

Tech kept insisting to install two M-Cards, on my HD model. "See two slots, you need two, I always install two, did the exact same machine yesterday." I took one, he got it to work, both tuners operate. I desperately wanted to reply RTFM... Verizon should give him a cut of all the extra unnecessary card rentals.


----------



## drhankz

schipperke said:


> Tech kept insisting to install two M-Cards, on my HD model. "See two slots, you need two, I always install two, did the exact same machine yesterday." I took one, he got it to work, both tuners operate. I desperately wanted to reply RTFM... Verizon should give him a cut of all the extra unnecessary card rentals.


Did you have the TiVo Installation Instructions printed out for the Installer?

I hope you enjoy the EXTRA Charge for the CableCard.

Just PULL it out yourself and RETURN it to Verizon. Of
course you need to pull out the RIGHT CableCard and
not the WRONG one. You also need to be SURE they 
are REAL "M" Cards. If they are "S" Cards, then you do
need two.

I recently returned (2) CableCards to Comcast to REDUCE 
my Comcast Bill.


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> I hope you enjoy the EXTRA Charge for the CableCard.


He said he only took one.


----------



## jon96cobra

schipperke said:


> Tech kept insisting to install two M-Cards, on my HD model. "See two slots, you need two, I always install two, did the exact same machine yesterday." I took one, he got it to work, both tuners operate. I desperately wanted to reply RTFM... Verizon should give him a cut of all the extra unnecessary card rentals.


Yeah the HD Tivo just needs one M card if its a S3 you need two M cards or 2 S cards. They guy figured it was the same as the S3.


----------



## scooterboy

scooterboy said:


> One big difference between this tivo and the faulty one I sent back - with the faulty one I could get channels 2-23 analog on one of the tuners. With the new tivo I can't get any channels at all when I go to Live TV - just a big ACCESSING CHANNEL INFO screen with a big spinning wheel.
> 
> My question: which one of those scenarios is "normal" for a unit not yet "cablecard authorized"?


Tech's coming friday morning to try a new M-card. Can anyone answer the above question for me?


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Tech's coming friday morning to try a new M-card. Can anyone answer the above question for me?


ALL CHANNELS WORK.

BTW - I had a Comcast Tech come out here Sunday night 
to fix a Comcast HD Box.

All my NON-Comcast DVRs with CableCards were working fine.

The TWO COMCAST HD Boxes were NOT WORKING - WHY - Signal
was TWO HOT. Comcast had upped the Signal Strength in the Neighborhood.

All the Tech finally did was reduced the signal strength and boxes started
working AGAIN.


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> ALL CHANNELS WORK.


I don't think you understood my question.

When you first get a brand new TivoHD, after the cards have been inserted, but BEFORE they've been activated by the Cable Company, what do you see when you go to Live TV?

Analog channels? OR
A message saying "Accessing Channel Info" with a big spinning wheel?


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> I don't think you understood my question.
> 
> When you first get a brand new TivoHD, after the cards have been inserted, but BEFORE they've been activated by the Cable Company, what do you see when you go to Live TV?
> 
> Analog channels? OR
> A message saying "Accessing Channel Info" with a big spinning wheel?


ONLY GOD knows that answer. The recommended startup 
procedure is on the TiVo Website. They recommend running
the TiVo for awhile WITHOUT ANY CABLECARD.

I ran my TiVo for a whole week and got all the TiVo and Other
BULL out of the way like software updates, etc. You need to
have an ACTIVE TiVo Account - but NO CABLE CARD.

With NO CABLE CARD - you should be receiving ANYTHING a
standard in-home TV receives - like all the channels from 2-67
or there about.

Plugging in a CableCard changes everything activated or not activated.

If the Tech is Bringing a NEW "M" - Power down the TiVo by unplugging
the AC CORD. Remover the CableCard and then Power the TiVo back on.


----------



## yunro

scooterboy said:


> When you first get a brand new TivoHD, after the cards have been inserted, but BEFORE they've been activated by the Cable Company, what do you see when you go to Live TV?
> 
> Analog channels? OR
> A message saying "Accessing Channel Info" with a big spinning wheel?


I just bought a TivoHD and was able to see all analog cable channels before cablecard installation, I was also able to see any in the clear qam digital channels.


----------



## scooterboy

yunro said:


> I just bought a TivoHD and was able to see all analog cable channels before cablecard installation, I was also able to see any in the clear qam digital channels.


Thanks!


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Thanks!


Is the Comcast Tech there yet with the NEW "M" Card?


----------



## scooterboy

He was here from 9:30am to 4:30pm, and I still don't have a working TivoHD.

I Cleared and Deleted Everything before he came, and went through Guided Setup leaving the Cable Cards out of the slots. At this point I got analog channels, so I knew the tuner in the Tivo was working.

He arrived, and as soon as we inserted the M-card, the analogs were gone and all I got when I pressed the Live TV button was the spinning wheel saying "Acquiring Channel Information".

He called HQ and had them send the signal to activate the M-card and...nothing. The card would not or could not receive the activation signal. After trying all possible permutations of conditions (take the splitter, cable amp, etc out of the equation), nothing worked.

He's coming back next week with the Tivo S3 that they use for testing and we'll try the cards in that one to see if they can get an activation signal.

This is the second TivoHD I've tried, both Recertified. If this one is defective too, I'm going to return it and insist they send me a brand new TivoHD, even if I have to pay the difference. But at this point, I shouldn't have to. And I think Tivo should beef up their "recertification" process too.


----------



## TVisitor

I've got Cablevision of NJ, and 4 new Tivo Series 3 HD's.

I set up a little "provisioning" area in my basement, hooked all of them up to cable & my network, and did guided setup on all of them. One of them rebooted each time I tried to enter guided setup, so I returned it and got a new one from Amazon, and that one was fine.

Did guided setup, eventually firmware upgraded to 11, and things seemed to be fine.

Cable guy came today around 4PM, brought 4 Multistream cards & 4 SDV adapters. He did a quick check of signals at each unit, and said they were OK.

Popped all 4 cards in, ran down the line and it took about 10 minutes before they were all done with their automatic firmware upgrades. He then called in and had the cards activated, and tested the non switched channels.

He then connected all 4 SDV adapters, and called in their numbers [I asked him about the fact that I could have gone and picked them up, would I have had to call them in? He said no, becuase when they gave them to me they would have entered the #'s in to the system].

The adapters seemed to take a little time before they came up, and one of them was problematic. He thought it might have been signal at the drop, maybe too low for the SDV, but then said the person he talked to at the head-end seemed "a little busy and maybe they didn't activate it" - he called in again, and apparently that was the case - it was activated, and all was well. He ran through a few channels on each unit and all was fine.

Took about an hour and a half for all 4 units.  Interestingly enough I asked him if he does regular installs, and he said they usually send him out for troubleshooting issues, not regular wire-run/etc. type stuff. So I guess he was better than the average tech. He also said he brought a few extra cards and SDV adapters in case one was bad, which sometimes happens. Kudos to him for having forethought!

All in all, a positive experience.


----------



## scooterboy

You got 4 working units in 1.5 hours, and I can't get one working unit out of 2 Tivos, 6 cable cards, and about 50 hours of tech time.

Life isn't fair. 

(happy for you though)


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> You got 4 working units in 1.5 hours, and I can't get one working unit out of 2 Tivos, 6 cable cards, and about 50 hours of tech time.
> 
> Life isn't fair.
> 
> (happy for you though)


I have 6 working DVRs in Salem, NH [Comcast] :up: 

Yes - I never did more than TWO installs at once and the rest
were one at a time. It did take a Total of (9) "M" cards to get 
6 working. The worst Case Install time was 1 HOUR. Most were
done in 30 Minutes. And YES the Comcast Tech always had a 
SPARE "M" card with him.


----------



## hengst2404

Wel, after literally months of reading this thread, and a whole lot os soul searching, I decided to get a Tivo. I purchased the Tivo HD XL. I am assuming this is identical to the regular HD with the exception of more storage capacity, although the box also says series 3 on the side which confuses me a bit as few here in the thread mention the HD XL by name.

In any event, the SO Cal Time Warner guys are coming to my condo in Culver city to set up my cable cards. On the phone the girl said that my unit needed 2 cards, but that the tech arriving on thursday would have all the cards, as well as the SDV tuning adapter.

This will be the first new tivo i have had since my old series 2 and I am very nervous. I realize that most of these posts are for folks who are having issues, but I never seem to have good luck initially with these things. So I guess wish me luck and hopefully everything works out.


----------



## SpiritualPoet

There is a dual-cable card for TiVo which your cable operator might possibly have. It's generally cheaper (?) to pay for a dual-card than two separate cable cards (the monthly rental fees). You'll love the XL-TiVo. (I don't have one but it's currently the largest drive unit on the market). The XL model uses the series 3 technology which is also in the HD TiVo machine, as well as in the discontinued Series 3 model.


----------



## hengst2404

SpiritualPoet said:


> There is a dual-cable card for TiVo which your cable operator might possibly have. It's generally cheaper (?) to pay for a dual-card than two separate cable cards (the monthly rental fees). You'll love the XL-TiVo. (I don't have one but it's currently the largest drive unit on the market). The XL model uses the series 3 technology which is also in the HD TiVo machine, as well as in the discontinued Series 3 model.


Hey thanks for the info. Well naught to do but wait and keep my fingers crossed till thursday. In the meantime I am going to plug it in and do the updates and all of that.


----------



## scooterboy

The Comcast tech left a little while ago. He brought the Comcast test tivo with him again, put the card that didn't work in my tivo into that one, had HQ send an activation signal to it and it worked fine.

So it seems the tivo that replaced the first defective tivo is also defective. Here's the lesson, kids: NEVER buy a "recertified" tivo. At this point I have ZERO faith in their "recertification" process.

I'm going to call them and ask them to send me a BRAND NEW TivoHD for the hassles I've gone through. Between the two defective units over a 2 month period, Comcast has come here close to 10 times and spent well over 50 hours, for nothing, all because of defective tivos.

We'll see how sympathetic they are.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> The Comcast tech left a little while ago. He brought the Comcast test tivo with him again, put the card that didn't work in my tivo into that one, had HQ send an activation signal to it and it worked fine.
> 
> So it seems the tivo that replaced the first defective tivo is also defective. Here's the lesson, kids: NEVER buy a "recertified" tivo. At this point I have ZERO faith in their "recertification" process.
> 
> I'm going to call them and ask them to send me a BRAND NEW TivoHD for the hassles I've gone through. Between the two defective units over a 2 month period, Comcast has come here close to 10 times and spent well over 50 hours, for nothing, all because of defective tivos.
> 
> We'll see how sympathetic they are.


BE SURE YOU show TiVo all these POSTS as Documentation for your 
TROUBLES. That is INSANE - you and your Comcast Tech Support TEAM
have gone beyond what anyone should expect. :up:


----------



## Lyrical1

Scooterboy, Im really sorry to hear that your recertified TiVo appears to be a lemon. This is especially true for me, because a few months ago I purchased a refurbished HD XL directly from TiVo and I was very reluctant to do so.

Id purchased refurb products from Apple in the past and had great experiences with them. With TiVo I just didnt know. At the time, though, it was the best price I could get for the unit with their warranty. (Of course, I found that if I had waited a little , but isnt that always the case?)

Anyway, my HD XL unit has fortunately been great. I asked Comcast to send someone who knew TiVos and M-Cable Cards well. Naturally, the guy who came out had installed Cable Cards only three or four times. However, after calling the office once or twice he got it working in less than ¾ hour and its been working fine ever since.

I wish you good luck getting satisfaction from TiVo.


----------



## Tsiehta

scooterboy said:


> The Comcast tech left a little while ago. He brought the Comcast test tivo with him again, put the card that didn't work in my tivo into that one, had HQ send an activation signal to it and it worked fine.
> 
> So it seems the tivo that replaced the first defective tivo is also defective. Here's the lesson, kids: NEVER buy a "recertified" tivo. At this point I have ZERO faith in their "recertification" process.
> 
> I'm going to call them and ask them to send me a BRAND NEW TivoHD for the hassles I've gone through. Between the two defective units over a 2 month period, Comcast has come here close to 10 times and spent well over 50 hours, for nothing, all because of defective tivos.
> 
> We'll see how sympathetic they are.


Scooter, you and I are in the same boat. It's been about a 3-week process for me trying to get Comcast to activate M-card in my HD XL that was working for the previous year under Brighthouse. We've gone through at least 9 M cards, and 4 SD cards. Tivo eventually suggested that the card slot on my Tivo went bad, so talked me into paying 149.00 exhange fee, plus 499.00 deposit on a new Tivo. I specifically asked, "It's a new Tivo?" They said yes.

Well, the "new" Tivo arrived last week, took it out of the box. First thing, the door to the cable slots just fell off. Scheduled with Comcast for a tech to come out. Put M-card in the "new" box, and it was even deader that my original Tivo. Wouldn't even read an M-card in slot one. Spent over an hour with Tivo on the phone, with Comcast rep sitting on my couch, trying to explain to them that THEY suggested I try a new Tivo. They wanted me to send BOTH Tivos back before they would send out another one! Eventually, they saw my point that it was there suggestion to try the new tivo, and I shouldn't have to return my original without comparing it to a new Tivo first.

New Tivo should come this week, or next. I really fail to see how a Tivo that worked for a year under Brighthouse, now can't be made to work under Comcast.


----------



## scooterboy

Just got off the phone with Tivo Support. I explained to the CSR that I'd gone through two defective refurb TivoHDs along with countless Comcast hours and I wasn't really psyched on trying a third refurb. I told him I'd like them to send me a brand new unit instead. He put me on hold, then came back on and said he couldn't do that.

I told him I was very disappointed that I wasn't going to be a Tivo customer again after all, especially since I'd been a loyal customer from 2001-2008 and had gotten them many customers back then. He offered to transfer me to Customer Retention because they had more pull than he did, so I told him to go ahead.

Customer Retention came on, and I repeated the whole thing. He asked me what I had paid for the refurb and I told him $199. He put me on hold in order to talk to his manager. When he came back on the line he said I could return the refurb for a full refund and he would sell me a brand new unit for $199. He also refunded the 2 months worth of tivo fees I'd paid during this whole adventure. That's how you keep a customer.

So now we wait for the new unit to arrive...


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Just got off the phone with Tivo Support.


Yikes!  What a PIA! Glad that you stuck to your guns and that TiVo finally came through, but that wasn't necessary at all. A long-term customer like yourself should get more respect than that. Or maybe that's why they offered to send a new box, I don't know...but still! 

Best of luck in any case and keep us posted...you'll deserve a medal after all of this! :up:


----------



## hengst2404

Wow, on the eve of receiving my cable cards and install from Time Warner in Socal, I am still a bit nervous. I hope I don't need to call upon this community's vast experience in getting my box to work with the cards.

P.S. richsadams - I stayed in Lake Oswego for about a week during the primary season of the campaign. Beautiful little community


----------



## richsadams

hengst2404 said:


> Wow, on the eve of receiving my cable cards and install from Time Warner in Socal, I am still a bit nervous. I hope I don't need to call upon this community's vast experience in getting my box to work with the cards.
> 
> P.S. richsadams - I stayed in Lake Oswego for about a week during the primary season of the campaign. Beautiful little community


99% of the time there are no problems. Been through it plenty of times and nary a glitch. People that have problems often find their way here...people that are happy generally don't rush to post positive experiences.

Yep, we really like it here...even when it's snowing up a storm like it did yesterday. (Although it took my wife 3 hours to drive 20 miles so she might not agree with that last bit.  ) Welcome back any time and keep us posted on how things go. :up:


----------



## hengst2404

Okay one other question, the tivo hd xl comes loaded with version 9.4 of the software. Now I have only had my tivo hooked up and configured, minus the cable cards, for a few hours. My fear is that all the guides say to let the software update as much as possible before the cards arrive. 

So my question is, if the tivo doesn't update its software beyond the version that came out of the box, will I still be able to configure the cable cards tomorrow? I have read all about how to manually connect and I understand that it still either may or may not connect between now and my appointment tomorrow. Just want to know if this may be a possible issue when the cable tech comes tomorrow.


----------



## richsadams

hengst2404 said:


> So my question is, if the tivo doesn't update its software beyond the version that came out of the box, will I still be able to configure the cable cards tomorrow? I have read all about how to manually connect and I understand that it still either may or may not connect between now and my appointment tomorrow. Just want to know if this may be a possible issue when the cable tech comes tomorrow.


You probably wouldn't have any issues installing cable cards with the older version. However an update may have already been downloaded. Have a look and see. Once the download has completed you will see "Pending restart" listed in the "Last Status" line on the Phone & Network Screen or on the System Information screen. TiVo will automatically install the upgrade at 2 a.m. your time. However you can reboot it (unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in) and it will install the update immediately. Since you don't have 10 posts you won't see my text links to the screen shots, but here they are so you can copy and paste them into your browser (I know, stupid rule) ...

http://i10.tinypic.com/6kzrwwi.jpg
System Information Screen

http://i16.tinypic.com/85w4qk8.jpg
Phone and Network Screen

If "Pending Restart" doesn't appear you can force an update. Go to Messages & Settings->Settings->Phone & Network->Connect now. If it downloads an update the loading process will usually take a while (15 minutes or more sometimes). If it doesn't download the update try connecting again a few times. Eventually the update should download. Again, once you see "Pending Restart" on one of the screens mentioned above, you can power cycle TiVo and it will automatically update. But if it doesn't update, it shouldn't be a problem.

Enjoy!


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> If "Pending Restart" doesn't appear you can force an update. Go to Messages & Settings->Settings->Phone & Network->Connect now. If it downloads an update the loading process will usually take a while (15 minutes or more sometimes). If it doesn't download the update try connecting again a few times. Eventually the update should download. Again, once you see "Pending Restart" on one of the screens mentioned above, you can power cycle TiVo and it will automatically update. But if it doesn't update, it shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Enjoy!


Just to chime in, I did have to do the "Connect Now" option a few times before it finally downloaded the version 11 software update. I made sure that was done before they showed up with the cable cards.

(not that it did much good in my case but I'm sure you'll have better luck)


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> Best of luck in any case and keep us posted...you'll deserve a medal after all of this! :up:


I'd say my Comcast tech deserves the medal. He's visited so much, I invited him to my family's Christmas gathering.


----------



## hengst2404

Hey thanks guys I am going to try all that you have suggested, starting with having just done a connection as we speak. I am just trying to get everything perfect before my time warner tech gets here tomorrow. I have had about a 75-25 success rate with time warner in the area of service out here. Usually, well more often than not the techs i have had come have been pretty smart folks. So I will cross my fingers for an additional time.

I am sure Rich that I will hit that minimum 10 posts soon enough. In the interim, I just found out that my Mom also purchased me a year's service for my box. Problem was, she actually created an account and activated it. Now I have to wait for her to find her account info as I need it to set up the netflix and amazon unbox stuff. It was either that or cancel it and then re-set it under my account, which seemed like a pain.

Apparently they don't have any type of mechanism for transferring her account or her device to my account.

EDIT: Well, she found her info and I was at least able to change it over to my info so I can take care of any issues that crop up with this device. I turned the TV on this morning and everything seems to be great now, I have officially started the 2 hour window of waiting for the tech.


----------



## hengst2404

Well I am hesitant to declare victory, but the contractor (not a Time Warner Tech) came out and had 6 M cards. He only used one and knew what he was doing. He said that pretty much all of his jobs from Time Warner out here involved installing cable cards.

He inserted the card called up and everything appears to be working. He said that out here as long as the thing is handled properly during the card installation it should always be that easy. Well we shall see, but for now I am happy. He didn't know anything about SDV tuners and obviously didn't have one. I shall have to see if there are any SDV channels out here yet. If so the website claims I can actually just go down the road to the store and get one directly from Time Warner.


----------



## richsadams

hengst2404 said:


> Well I am hesitant to declare victory, but the contractor (not a Time Warner Tech) came out and had 6 M cards. He only used one and knew what he was doing. He said that pretty much all of his jobs from Time Warner out here involved installing cable cards.


Excellent news! Thanks for reporting back...a lot of folks just disappear when there aren't any issues. The tech is correct, if things are good now, there's no reason to think that will change going forward. Also if SDV was being employed in your area he would almost certainly be aware of it.

So welcome to the club and enjoy!! :up:


----------



## EvanG

Hi, first time posting in a long while. Bought a Tivo HD for switching back to cable from DirecTV, and instillation was today (TWC, Los Angeles). The technician was only given one M card, it didn't work when installed, and he said he couldn't get any more today. Trying again tomorrow...


----------



## richsadams

EvanG said:


> Hi, first time posting in a long while. Bought a Tivo HD for switching back to cable from DirecTV, and instillation was today (TWC, Los Angeles). The technician was only given one M card, it didn't work when installed, and he said he couldn't get any more today. Trying again tomorrow...


Welcome back! More often than not cable cards will be fine, but there are plenty of stories here and on other forums about techs having to go through as many as a dozen cable cards before finding one that works. Hopefully the tech will bring a handful of them when he or she returns.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## EvanG

richsadams said:


> Welcome back! More often than not cable cards will be fine, but there are plenty of stories here and on other forums about techs having to go through as many as a dozen cable cards before finding one that works. Hopefully the tech will bring a handful of them when he or she returns.


Gah, I sure hope so. I should have read this first and asked the operator to be sure the tech had multiple. Like hengst2404's experience, the technician was a contractor, not an official Time Warner installer. He seemed pretty annoyed with the office for only sending him one, and he said that he thought it wouldn't work.

Unfortunately, this will be our _third_ instillation appointment--Monday they were about to come when they found out I hadn't set up the TiVo yet, and the guy refused to come out and wait while my wife set it up (she took off Monday for that and the phone). I took off from work this afternoon to get this done, and really frustrated it was for naught. I told them there was no way my wife and I were using more vacation time to wait around tomorrow, so they're coming late...hopefully the first time will work, so we don't have a dinner guest!


----------



## richsadams

EvanG said:


> ...hopefully the first time will work, so we don't have a dinner guest!


Hey, maybe you can get him to pay for take out!


----------



## EvanG

Yay--I have TiVo HD again! Thankfully the first card the tech tried tonight worked. I had to switch the video output from 480, though .

First got TiVo in 2005 when I bought the old DirecTV SD TiVo, then got the HR10-250. I was really depressed when DirecTV did the switch to their HD DVR. Happy to be back.


----------



## scooterboy

The (brand) new TivoHD is scheduled for delivery this friday. I'm going to set it up, upgrade the software, etc. then email the pairing info to my tech. He's going to have HQ send a hit to the cable card and if it takes (including encrypted and movie channels I subscribe to), we'll be done. If it doesn't take, he'll come back to the house.

Here's hoping I don't see him again.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Here's hoping I don't see him again.


Is that the way you treat your dedicated tech  friend


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Is that the way you treat your dedicated tech  friend


Do you really not know what I meant?

Wait - let me put it in terms you'll understand:

Do YOU really not KNOW what I MEANT?


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Do you really not know what I meant?
> 
> Wait - let me put it in terms you'll understand:
> 
> Do YOU really not KNOW what I MEANT?


I'm NOT as Dumb as I seem - Yes I know what you
meant and the terrible ordeal you and your Comcast
Tech have gone through.

Good luck with your NEW TiVo - have fun this weekend.


----------



## scooterboy

Thanks! I wasn't implying that you were dumb - I was just having a little fun with you because I noticed you like to put some of your words in uppercase.

No harm intended.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Thanks! I wasn't implying that you were dumb - I was just having a little fun with you because I noticed you like to put some of your words in uppercase.
> 
> No harm intended.


I also recognized your sense of humor - I knew 
what you meant in post 376 & 378 :up:


----------



## scooterboy

scooterboy said:


> The (brand) new TivoHD is scheduled for delivery this friday. I'm going to set it up, upgrade the software, etc. then email the pairing info to my tech. He's going to have HQ send a hit to the cable card and if it takes (including encrypted and movie channels I subscribe to), we'll be done. If it doesn't take, he'll come back to the house.


Well the new unit is installed. I've updated the software to current, downloaded the schedule info, and then installed the cable card. Signal strength varies between 93-100, depending on channel.

I emailed all of the pairing info to the tech, and now I'll wait for them to send a hit to the card. Fingers are crossed.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Well the new unit is installed. I've updated the software to current, downloaded the schedule info, and then installed the cable card. Signal strength varies between 93-100, depending on channel.
> 
> I emailed all of the pairing info to the tech, and now I'll wait for them to send a hit to the card. Fingers are crossed.


Fingers crossed here!


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> now I'll wait for them to send a hit


Just in case they Don't HIT you - I'm local - I can come buy and HIT YOU 

BEST WISHES - you have suffered enough.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> Just in case they Don't HIT you - I'm local - I can come buy and HIT YOU


ROFLMA!  I'm betting he needs a smile right about now. :up:


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> ROFLMA!  I'm betting he needs a smile right about now. :up:


Why hasn't Scooter Boy checked in HERE yet to say it is all working


----------



## scooterboy

Because it's not...yet.

I emailed my tech late last night, and I haven't heard back from him yet that he called in the pairing info. So I'm assuming he hasn't done it yet.

I am getting digital channels including HD, but not all of them. The ones that are in an upper tier as well as HBO channels (both of which I subscribe to) are not coming in yet. Going to those channels simply results in the Cable Card Pairing Info screen to come up (is that normal?)

Still this is farther than I've gotten before. In the Conditional Access screen I'm getting VAL:? and AUTH: CAD, so I believe they haven't sent a signal to the cable card yet.

I remain hopeful.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> I am getting digital channels including HD, but not all of them. The ones that are in an upper tier as well as HBO channels (both of which I subscribe to) are not coming in yet. Going to those channels simply results in the Cable Card Pairing Info screen to come up (is that normal?)


That exact same situation happened to us when we first got VZ FIOS. The tech checked a few channels before leaving but when I started scrolling through them all, the higher-end HD channels were missing (including HBO, Showtime, etc). I think I just got a "Channel Unavailable" screen though.

In any case I had to call VZ and spend some time on the phone while they got things ironed out. Once they did whatever it is they did on their end, I rebooted TiVo and all was well.

So it sounds very promising. Perhaps the tech did do what he was supposed to do but it didn't "take"? I'd shoot him another e-mail or call the tech folks to see if they can resolve it.

Best of luck...we're all pulling for you!


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Because it's not...yet.
> 
> I emailed my tech late last night,


I think you need some PHONE time to complete the process.

Good Luck for making it farther than before.


----------



## scooterboy

Just got an email from my tech - he had them send the hit to the cable card around noon today (EST). I won't get home until about 9pm tonight so we'll see what I get at that time.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Just got an email from my tech - he had them send the hit to the cable card around noon today (EST). I won't get home until about 9pm tonight so we'll see what I get at that time.


OH NO - the Anticipation is KILLING ALL OF US 

Hurry Up Home.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Just got an email from my tech - he had them send the hit to the cable card around noon today (EST). I won't get home until about 9pm tonight so we'll see what I get at that time.


Chewing fingernails...singing "Anticipation"...scaring small animals...trust that it will work!


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> OH NO - the Anticipation is KILLING ALL OF US
> 
> Hurry Up Home.





richsadams said:


> Chewing fingernails...singing "Anticipation"...scaring small animals...trust that it will work!


Thanks a lot...I *was* calm before but now...


----------



## scooterboy

Holy crap on a cracker.

I have a working TivoHD!

I'm getting all of the channels that I'm supposed to, and the CA screen has the correct values for the VAL and AUTH fields. I've checked that screen so many times in the past 2 months and been disappointed, I'm not really sure what to do now that it's working. I'm getting a bit misty...

I guess I should backup an image of the drive before I go any further?


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> I guess I should backup an image of the drive before I go any further?


Why unless you plan on Upgrading to a larger Drive.

*3 Cheers for ScoterBoy and TiVo *


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Holy crap on a cracker.
> 
> I have a working TivoHD!


WOO HOO!!! LET THE CELEBRATING BEGIN!! :up: :up: :up:

Honestly we really shouldn't have to break out the champagne when a TiVo runs normally, but you've been through soooo much! It's great to hear that things are good again.

Thanks for keeping us up to date. I'll put away the antacid now and sleep peacefully for the first time in...well...at least 24 hours! 

Enjoy!


----------



## scooterboy

drhankz said:


> Why unless you plan on Upgrading to a larger Drive.


Well I'm currently deciding on whether to use the 1TB Expander drive I already bought, or upgrade the internal drive.

In either case, I want to have a backup of the drive that has the settings for a working cable card.


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> WOO HOO!!! LET THE CELEBRATING BEGIN!! :up: :up: :up:


Thanks - I celebrated by setting up all of my season passes tonight (as many as I could anyway). I figured I should do that before I back up the drive so they'll be there if I ever have to use the backup. 

I think I'm going to be expecting the worst for a while (out of habit)...


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Thanks - I celebrated by setting up all of my season passes tonight (as many as I could anyway). I figured I should do that before I back up the drive so they'll be there if I ever have to use the backup.
> 
> I think I'm going to be expecting the worst for a while (out of habit)...


I expect it'll take a little while before you can completely relax. If it were me I'd keep it stock for at least 30 days or so to be sure all is well. Can you return the My DVR Expander? There are so many reports of the 500GB models failing at 12 to 18 months. I don't know how the 1TB models will do, but if it were me I would just upgrade the internal hard drive. In fact, it were me and that's why I did. Twice. 

If you want to keep your SP's current and all just sign up for Guru Guides or KidZone on the TiVo website. If they're ever lost TiVo will repopulate them on a new hard drive.

In any case you can always keep a truncated backup of your original hard drive by connecting it to a PC and running winMFS. (Same process as upgrading, but you'd stop at the backup step). That'll keep your cable card settings, etc. Everything you need to know (if you don't already) can be found by clicking on the link below my sig.

Happy TiVoing!


----------



## brettatk

scooterboy said:


> I'm getting all of the channels that I'm supposed to, and the CA screen has the* correct values for the VAL and AUTH fields*.


What are the correct values again? Should they be the same no matter who your cable provider is? I believe this is the reason my Tivo is locking up about once a week. I'm not home to verify right now, but I believe I have Unknown or something for the validation value. Charter has sent every kind of hit they can and it seems their only response now is that they have to send someone out.


----------



## drhankz

scooterboy said:


> Well I'm currently deciding on whether to use the 1TB Expander drive I already bought, or upgrade the internal drive.
> 
> In either case, I want to have a backup of the drive that has the settings for a working cable card.


My Two Cent Preference is the Internal Drive. At least that way - it
won't accidentally get disconnected and SCREW things up. I upgraded
my TiVo to 1 TB Internal. I saved the ORIGINAL TiVo Drive as my 
Backup - like you - after the CableCard was UP & Running.


----------



## scooterboy

brettatk said:


> What are the correct values again? Should they be the same no matter who your cable provider is? I believe this is the reason my Tivo is locking up about once a week. I'm not home to verify right now, but I believe I have Unknown or something for the validation value. Charter has sent every kind of hit they can and it seems their only response now is that they have to send someone out.


Val: (Validation) should show the letter V followed by something like "0x01", and Auth: (Authorization) should show "S". You should change the channel to one in the highest tier you subscribe to before bringing up the CA screen. I find that if I have it on a basic channel, it doesn't show anything past the Val: field.

That's how it worked for me, anyway.


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> Can you return the My DVR Expander?


Amazon has a 30 day return policy, so I don't think I can return it for a full refund. I have had an offer from someone here to buy it from me, so I may just do that.



> If you want to keep your SP's current and all just sign up for Guru Guides or KidZone on the TiVo website. If they're ever lost TiVo will repopulate them on a new hard drive.


Does my tivo have to be connected to the internet to use that? I haven't done that yet (currently using phone line). It's one of the things I was going to do after I got the tivo going.



> In any case you can always keep a truncated backup of your original hard drive by connecting it to a PC and running winMFS. (Same process as upgrading, but you'd stop at the backup step). That'll keep your cable card settings, etc. Everything you need to know (if you don't already) can be found by clicking on the link below my sig.


Yep - that's what I was going to do.

What's the latest info on whether the hard drive inside the Expander can be used as an internal upgrade drive? I'd have no problem with busting the Expander open and using that if I knew it would work. It would save me the hassle of selling/returning the Expander and buying another drive.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> Amazon has a 30 day return policy, so I don't think I can return it for a full refund. I have had an offer from someone here to buy it from me, so I may just do that.
> 
> Does my tivo have to be connected to the internet to use that? I haven't done that yet (currently using phone line). It's one of the things I was going to do after I got the tivo going.
> 
> Yep - that's what I was going to do.
> 
> What's the latest info on whether the hard drive inside the Expander can be used as an internal upgrade drive? I'd have no problem with busting the Expander open and using that if I knew it would work. It would save me the hassle of selling/returning the Expander and buying another drive.


Guru Guide/KidZone are associated with your account so I'm pretty sure you don't need broadband for either to work. I'm not sure what's inside the 1TB My DVR Expander. It's almost certainly a WD GP drive. Depending on when it was manufactured it may have the Intellipark "feature" which requires a little more work to get it to, well, work. (More on the fist post of the FAQ linked under my sig). The downside is that opening the case voids the warranty. A bare drive has a three-year warranty. (My DVR Expander only one). I'd take the person that wants it up on the offer.


----------



## brettatk

scooterboy said:


> Val: (Validation) should show the letter V followed by something like "0x01", and Auth: (Authorization) should show "S". You should change the channel to one in the highest tier you subscribe to before bringing up the CA screen. I find that if I have it on a basic channel, it doesn't show anything past the Val: field.
> 
> That's how it worked for me, anyway.


Thanks, I'll doublecheck mine when I get home. I'm not sure I've ever tried with the highest tier, perhaps that was my only problem.


----------



## Cor

It's very easy to remember what and how much cards you need for your TIVO series 3.
If the slots are in the front you need only 1 M-Card.
If the slots are in the back you need 2 M-cards.
If you have to swap cards due to faulty cards or moving, make sure you unpair the cards with your provider in their system. Meaning the cards MAC address will be released from the TIVO host-ID. If you install a new card you need your host-ID and Cable Card-ID. In some cases you need only the Serial number. Make sure that the EMMs will be rebuild as well. something only the provider can do. in some cases a hard reboot from the TIVO is needed. i haven't seen this much but occasionally it happened. also if the card is inserted and it starts a download of SW do not interrupt this untill finished then you should see the CC-ID and HOST-ID popping up on your screen.
It won't take more then about 20-25 minutes including an SW update on the card to get all your services. don't believe when they tell you 8hours or other crap.


----------



## scooterboy

brettatk said:


> Thanks, I'll doublecheck mine when I get home. I'm not sure I've ever tried with the highest tier, perhaps that was my only problem.


I should have also mentioned that the info I gave you is for Comcast and a Motorola M-card. Other cable providers and/or cable card brands may be different.


----------



## Tsiehta

Well, after 1 month, 2 replacement HD XLs, multiple X multiple M- and S- cards, and a comcast rep spending 11 hours in my home (we're friends now), I can report a working Tivo.

Ended up working with 2 S cards. Interesting point, the comcast rep was working on another Tivo box locally, and said that one thing my outlet did not have on their end was a code telling it that a Tivo/or Tivo-like device was one it. Not sure what actually was the solution, just know it now works.

Now, to re input all my season passes, figure out hot to reconnect Netflix, and to return the Tivo box and get my refund.

Yay!


----------



## richsadams

Tsiehta said:


> Well, after 1 month, 2 replacement HD XLs, multiple X multiple M- and S- cards, and a comcast rep spending 11 hours in my home (we're friends now), I can report a working Tivo.


Phew! Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## c0chrane1971

I am confused.


----------



## slowbiscuit

No more so than the average CC install tech, or the frontline people that you call.

They do this on purpose because they don't want you using 3rd-party devices.


----------



## scooterboy

richsadams said:


> Can you return the My DVR Expander?





> Amazon has a 30 day return policy, so I don't think I can return it for a full refund. I have had an offer from someone here to buy it from me, so I may just do that.


Update: the potential buyer decided not to, so I was left with the decision whether to use the Expander or not.

On the one hand, I could sell it on eBay, buy a bare drive, and do an internal upgrade.

On the other hand, I could plug the Expander in and be done.

I plugged it in tonight.  I'm hoping the 1TB unit will have a better track record than the 500GB unit did, and/or that mine will last at least a year. If and when it fails, I'll do an internal upgrade then.

Today, laziness won.


----------



## richsadams

scooterboy said:


> On the other hand, I could plug the Expander in and be done.


Hey, I might have done the same thing...so it's obviously not a bad decision.  AFAIK no one is complaining about the 1TB My DVR Expanders to date so no news is good news. Enjoy! :up:


----------



## pl1

Does anyone know if this sounds like a cableCARD gone bad? (Meaning, I can get local channels, nothing much else.) Once a week or so, I lose the validation/pairing on my cableCARD. A warm or cold restart resets it and if I have Comcast send it a hit, I'm good for another week. 

I thought maybe it was my original S3, but I replaced that with a new THD. Now the THD lost it's validation/pairing almost exactly 1 week after it was installed. To me, that DOES look like it's the cableCARD and I'm having Comcast come out with a new card this Saturday. 

It just seems awfully weird to me that a cableCARD works for two+ years and then starts acting up. I have read that too many hits can cause the card to bad.


----------



## drhankz

pl1 said:


> It just seems awfully weird to me that a cableCARD works for two+ years and then starts acting up. I have read that too many hits can cause the card to bad.


FUNNY you should ask that - the same thing just happened to me.

I have 5 DVRs with CableCards and TWO Comcast HD Boxes with 
CableCards.

About 4 weeks ago - the (2) Comcast Boxes stopped working. 
WHY?

I can tell you but can you KEEP a SECRET


----------



## pl1

drhankz said:


> FUNNY you should ask that - the same thing just happened to me.
> 
> I have 5 DVRs with CableCards and TWO Comcast HD Boxes with
> CableCards.
> 
> About 4 weeks ago - the (2) Comcast Boxes stopped working.
> WHY?
> 
> I can tell you but can you KEEP a SECRET


I'm guessing you returned the two Comcast boxes!


----------



## drhankz

pl1 said:


> I'm guessing you returned the two Comcast boxes!


No Way - Comcast came out and diagnosed the problem - THAT THEY CREATED.

It turns out they made some IMPROVEMENT in Signal Strength
in the Neighborhood. The Signal was TOO HOT for the CableCards.

We put in a 6db attenuator and all is well again.

Just for laughs - you might want to check your signal strength on TiVo.

If it is NOT PEGGED - then it is probably some pairing problem. 
CableCards either work or don't work. Working partially is usually
a Database [aka Pairing problem].


----------



## cjv2

pl1 said:


> I have read that too many hits can cause the card to bad.


Only if you hit them without gloves on. You should always wear gloves when hitting the cards.


----------



## pl1

drhankz said:


> No Way - Comcast came out and diagnosed the problem - THAT THEY CREATED.
> 
> It turns out they made some IMPROVEMENT in Signal Strength
> in the Neighborhood. The Signal was TOO HOT for the CableCards.
> 
> We put in a 6db attenuator and all is well again.
> 
> Just for laughs - you might want to check your signal strength on TiVo.
> 
> If it is NOT PEGGED - then it is probably some pairing problem.
> CableCards either work or don't work. Working partially is usually
> a Database [aka Pairing problem].


While I would totally agree with you there, as I said, they worked perfectly fine for two plus years.

When the tech came out Sunday, he swapped cards from the S3 to the THD, he called in the host and id, and he tested the signal strength.

This morning, when I call in, the CSR let me read off the host and data ID and they matched fine. And, as I say, a reboot is all that was needed to get the channels back.

I saw in a thread somewhere that there might be a time-out happening.

I will check the signal strength, to make sure it is not too strong.


----------



## pl1

cjv2 said:


> Only if you hit them without gloves on. You should always wear gloves when hitting the cards.


:up:


----------



## drhankz

pl1 said:


> I saw in a thread somewhere that there might be a time-out happening.
> 
> I will check the signal strength, to make sure it is not too strong.


The Crypto Keys do time-out - but since you got new keys on Sunday
they clearly should not have timed out yet.


----------



## pl1

drhankz said:


> The Crypto Keys do time-out - but since you got new keys on Sunday
> they clearly should not have timed out yet.


Ok, this is getting real funky now!

Since I am suppoesd to get a new cableCARD this next Saturday, I decided to put my original 160g drive back in, figuring it would be identical for the pairing information.

But, when I installed the original 160g drive, the pairing failed.

When I put my upgraded 1T drive back in, the cableCARD is paired properly. I checked the data and host and they are identical for both hard drives. I don't get it.

When the cableCARD was first installed last week, it was installed with the 160g drive. I then pulled it and upgraded to a 1t drive. It worked fine upgrading the drive.

I don't understand at all what is going on here! Now I'm wondering if it's the upgrade procedure or the cableCARD. I'm very confused.

I think what I need to do is to concentrate on getting the 1t drive paired with the cableCARD and leave well enough alone. And be happy. 

I used WinMFS, which is supposed to keep the cableCARD settings. I wonder if the hits that Comcast sent today affected the new drive pairing in some way?


----------



## drhankz

pl1 said:


> I think what I need to do is to concentrate on getting the 1t drive paired with the cableCARD and leave well enough alone. And be happy.


FYI - every time you unplug or plug the Cable Card - one part of the
PAIRING info Changes. This is to prevent someone from using a Card
in an unauthorized device. Most Cable Co's do not use this piece of
Data but Comcast Does.


----------



## pl1

drhankz said:


> FYI - every time you unplug or plug the Cable Card - one part of the
> PAIRING info Changes. This is to prevent someone from using a Card
> in an unauthorized device. Most Cable Co's do not use this piece of
> Data but Comcast Does.


I do understand that. But, when you copy the drive with WinMFS, it retains the host and data info. In fact, the pairing info is identical on both drives. I never removed the cableCARD.

But, I know what you are saying. If you move the cableCARD to another device, it generates a new host and data ID. But, I can tell you that it is OK to remove the card and re-insert it in the same device. As long as you do not change devices, the pairing info will not change.


----------



## scooterboy

I have an update, but it no longer belongs in this thread so I put it here.


----------



## brettatk

I'm not sure if I've asked this before, if I did I couldn't find it. When I go to my CableCard settings and look at conditional access, both of my tuner's are showing the following:

Validation: Unknown (00)

I think this is why my Tivo is locking up from time to time causing me to have to pull the plug and reboot. Could some of you when you have time check and see what your's list there? I'm using Charter as my cable provider. Thanks!


----------



## pl1

brettatk said:


> I'm not sure if I've asked this before, if I did I couldn't find it. When I go to my CableCard settings and look at conditional access, both of my tuner's are showing the following:
> 
> Validation: Unknown (00)
> 
> I think this is why my Tivo is locking up from time to time causing me to have to pull the plug and reboot. Could some of you when you have time check and see what your's list there? I'm using Charter as my cable provider. Thanks!


All I can say is that you are not alone. I'm In a similar situation. I'm having my cableCARD changed this Saturday since it has exhibited the same behavior on two TiVo's now. Once a week, I have to reboot and get Comcast to send a hit to my card. I'm wondering if the headend can't see the card, and so it drops it. Kind of like if you unplug it too long during a power outage.


----------



## brettatk

pl1 said:


> All I can say is that you are not alone. I'm In a similar situation. I'm having my cableCARD changed this Saturday since it has exhibited the same behavior on two TiVo's now. Once a week, I have to reboot and get Comcast to send a hit to my card. I'm wondering if the headend can't see the card, and so it drops it. Kind of like if you unplug it too long during a power outage.


I've been avoiding having to have Charter send someone out. Even getting them to send a hit doesn't seem to help. All my channels come in, but it sucks sometime when I get home late at night and find out it didn't record anything. Thanks for the info though, nice to see I'm not alone. I might hold off until shows are airing reruns again. I'd hate to have Charter really screw things up and be without a Tivo at all for awhile.


----------



## pl1

brettatk said:


> I've been avoiding having to have Charter send someone out. Even getting them to send a hit doesn't seem to help. All my channels come in, but it sucks sometime when I get home late at night and find out it didn't record anything. Thanks for the info though, nice to see I'm not alone. I might hold off until shows are airing reruns again. I'd hate to have Charter really screw things up and be without a Tivo at all for awhile.


I'm battling the same thinking process. Leave well enough alone (where it mostly works) or royaly screw things up. Because Comcast is willing to come out on Saturday or Sunday, I'm more willing to take the gamble. But, believe me, I'm torn.


----------



## pl1

I had Comcast come out this morning. After a 25 minute conversation between the on-site tech (convincing the remote tech that we need to change the card, ""including making sure that my HD channels had check boxes next to them"", if you can believe it), the minute he plugged in a new card, and got it authorized, it worked instantly. 

This is the same box that had no non-local HD channels on it when the tech walked in. I did NOT want to reboot it to try and re-pair the card, so that the tech could see it was not working. 

So, with fingers crossed, it will last more than a week! I did get a free 3 months of HBO for my troubles, which is nice.


----------



## ronaries

Just recently got a new Tivo HD series3 operating - set up by Wow - with 2 cable cards. After reading all the problems others had in the Forum, I was concerned that I might encounter a lot of difficulty - especially when the installer said he had 2 cards, and didn't need any help or additional information about the system! But, to his credit, all went very smoothly and I was very pleased. WOW did a good job in Central Ohio again!
So -- despite all the bad press around - some installers can breeze thru the cable card installations (thank goodness!).


----------



## pl1

ronaries said:


> Just recently got a new Tivo HD series3 operating - set up by Wow - with 2 cable cards. After reading all the problems others had in the Forum, I was concerned that I might encounter a lot of difficulty - especially when the installer said he had 2 cards, and didn't need any help or additional information about the system! But, to his credit, all went very smoothly and I was very pleased. WOW did a good job in Central Ohio again!
> So -- despite all the bad press around - some installers can breeze thru the cable card installations (thank goodness!).


Of course, if your installer knew so much, why did he install two cards when only one m-card is needed? If he installed two m-cards, one is not even active. If he installed two s-cards, was it because he was out of m-cards? And, will you be charged extra for two cards? (I'm assuming here that you mean you purchased a THD and not an original S3 which requires two cards.)


----------



## test drive

uh, oh - would appreciate some advice and was nicely referred here from another poster on another board...quick issue: after my new HD XL box that suffered from the supposed "intellipark" soft reboot issue on new WD drives which was seemingly resolved with a new released patch (issue is affecting many new units), i went to the next step and inserted the comcast M cable card, hoping for the best...unfortunately, no such luck...after 2 hours with Comcast technical support last night and exhaustive efforts to pair 3 separate M cards, all 3 failed to acquire channels...leading us back to Tivo? 

Details: the first card could not acquire channels despite 5 attempts leading repeatedly to the sequence of Please wait...acquiring channel information followed 10 mins or so later by Error acquiring channels despite Comcast reporting that in their system the card had successfully paired; at Comcast's suggestion (both of us assuming that the first card was at fault), and armed with additional new "back-up" cards just in case (I came prepared for this one), each new card was then inserted following a hard reboot and using the reported host id and data id, but new 2 were unable to be activated.

In troubleshooting, comcast Tech reported that Tivo was supposed to generate a new Host ID# and new Data # for each separate M card- however, she realized that in multiple efforts to generate data to pair the next 2 cards, Tivo decoder was always showing the same Host ID# as the original card - Comcast therefore believes it's a Tivo issue and wants to know why the Tivo is not able to generate a new unique host ID# for the subsequent 2 cards. Note, hard rebooting at every stage of the process did not fix the issue or provide new host ID# for subsequent cards...though the data #s were unique each time... 

Comcast is happy to send out a tech, but they believe its likely a Tivo issue given there were 3 separate new cards and the first one paired correctly but subsequently Tivo could not generate new host IDs...they even tried to pair them again with the original host ID# at my request, but supe said they could not as that host # was "married to the original card"...not sure if this is related at all to the new patch to address soft reboot problems, the box which has had some funky drive behavior requiring multiple hard drive reboots to get past the Welcome Screen due to those issues, or card validation process, but I was encouraged to report here (as a TC newbie) and see if anyone has had similar issues and whether anyone here has any ideas about how to move ahead from here...thanks in advance for any insights and apologies if the answer is somewhere here already.


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## cjv2

test drive said:


> Comcast is happy to send out a tech, but they believe it's likely a Tivo issue given there were 3 separate new cards and the first one paired correctly but subsequently Tivo could not generate new host IDs...they even tried to pair them again with the original host ID# at my request, but supe said they could not as that host # was "married to the original card"...


To my knowledge, the host IDs do not change when a new card is inserted.

As to this "married to the original card" business, all they need to do is delete the original card's pairing data in their system. This pairing business isn't set in stone and burned-in for life. Otherwise they would never be able to retrieve your M-Card from you and give it to another customer (by their explanation, that card would be permanently bolted to *your* Tivo, which is silly).

What you have going on is a pairing problem, possibly and probably due to lack of understanding on the Comcast side. It is not tied to the Intellipark business at all.

Suggest you email your story, along with your Comcast account number (please don't post that here!), M-Card serial number (just whatever one you have in the Tivo - pick one) host, and data IDs to the folks at [email protected]. They have familiarity with CableCard pairing issues and can actually tweak the data in their system.


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## pl1

cjv2 said:


> To my knowledge, the host IDs do not change when a new card is inserted.


I just had a new cableCARD installed Saturday, and both the data id and host id changed. AAMOF, every field changed. CableCARD ID, HOST ID, DATA, Unit Address, and Card S/N. This is in the Norh east and with a Motorola M-card. The tech told me that moving to another device, the HOST ID and DATA ID change.
Like I say, I'm only speaking for my location. YMMV.


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## cjv2

pl1 said:


> I just had a new cableCARD installed Saturday, and both the data id and host id changed. AAMOF, every field changed. CableCARD ID, HOST ID, DATA, Unit Address, and Card S/N. This is in the Norh east and with a Motorola M-card. The tech told me that moving to another device, the HOST ID and DATA ID change.
> Like I say, I'm only speaking for my location. YMMV.


If moving to another device, the host ID is going to be different, because it's another device. The whole point of the host ID to uniquely identify the device (that device being a specific physical CableCard slot).

Outside of that, you're saying you had a new M-Card card put into the same Tivo as an old M-Card and the host ID changed? If that is the case, my bad, please forgive while I remove my foot from my mouth. 

Still, his Comcast people are loopy if they claim that his host ID is permanently married to the original M-Card and can never be changed for all eternity. That would render the M-Card unusable for any other customer even if he returns that card to Comcast.

What's AAMOF?


----------



## dlfl

cjv2 said:


> ........What's AAMOF?


*** Internet Acronyms ***

You've got a browser -- use it!


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## cjv2

dlfl said:


> *** Internet Acronyms ***
> 
> You've got a browser -- use it!


In all fairness, I have been online acroynming for 20 years, and you people just need to stop with adding the new ones!   

Heh.

Holy cow, they have MORF in there! That's old school! I'm impressed


----------



## pl1

cjv2 said:


> <Snip> Outside of that, you're saying you had a new M-Card card put into the same Tivo as an old M-Card and the host ID changed? If that is the case, my bad, please forgive while I remove my foot from my mouth. <snip>


That is what I'm saying. Same device, new M-Card, new Host ID.


cjv2 said:


> What's AAMOF? In all fairness, I have been online acroynming for 20 years, and you people just need to stop with adding the new ones!


I'm not trying to bust 'em here, but As A Matter Of Fact, I've been on the Internet since AOL/CIS/Delphi/BBS days and AAMOF was one of the first ones I learned! :up:


----------



## cjv2

pl1 said:


> That is what I'm saying. Same device, new M-Card, new Host ID. I'm not trying to bust 'em here, but As A Matter Of Fact, I've been on the Internet since AOL/CIS/Delphi/BBS days and AAMOF was one of the first ones I learned! :up:


Delphi/CIS/BBS? Dang dude, ok, you win. Just don't mention the AOL Christmas modems, I was there when those folks started appearing in CIS, and it sucked horribly


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## pl1

cjv2 said:


> Delphi/CIS/BBS? Dang dude, ok, you win. Just don't mention the AOL Christmas modems, I was there when those folks started appearing in CIS, and it sucked horribly


Not sure about that, myself. You had to be on and off so fast with CIS (it was so expensive), that I did not hang around to long there. I started most of my command line Internet learning with Delphi. What was the AOL Christmas modem thing?


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## cjv2

pl1 said:


> What was the AOL Christmas modem thing?


The AOL Christmas modem thing was that every Christmas, people would get modems for gifts, complete with an AOL CD. They would all sign up for AOL for $9.95/month or whatever it was, which was unheard-of pricing that was guaranteed to bring all the not-so-online-saavy types in. Then they would find their way to CIS (which was price-dropping due to the competition), and show up in CIS chat space.

We could always tell that they were "AOL Christmas modems" because they had miserable netiquette, particularly evident when they would enter a CIS chat room, blurt out "M or F?" or "age/sex check" and expect all the participants to announce their answer, which I guess was standard behavior at the time in AOL chatspace. It was *not* standard behavior on CIS, and we proceeded to pummel them mercilessly for "morfing" the room.

Oh, those days were fun. Muhahahaha. AOL won though, ultimately consuming CIS whole by acquisition.


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## test drive

pl1 said:


> That is what I'm saying. Same device, new M-Card, new Host ID. I'm not trying to bust 'em here, but As A Matter Of Fact, I've been on the Internet since AOL/CIS/Delphi/BBS days and AAMOF was one of the first ones I learned! :up:


thank you both cjv2 and pl1 for your replies; if new host ID # generation by the tivo unit is the issue, as comcast indicated after many hours of cycling and hard reboots and working through their supervisors to get the system to recognize the new cards, then the problem and solution is presumably back with Tivo? any ideas as to how to proceed to get the unit to generate a new host ID# sequence for the new cards would be appreciated...the current units have been so filled with issues that i am tempted to return it, and await a hard drive solution to the firmware beta fixes that seem to be popping up across the forums on HD XL built since Dec...


----------



## richsadams

test drive said:


> ...then the problem and solution is presumably back with Tivo?


I don't think so. If you re-read a couple of the posts I believe they are saying that Comcast is the one that needs to reset things on their end, that TiVo doesn't have anything to do with it. I could be wrong but that's what I got out of it.


----------



## pl1

cjv2 said:


> The AOL Christmas modem thing was that every Christmas, people would get modems for gifts, complete with an AOL CD. They would all sign up for AOL for $9.95/month or whatever it was, which was unheard-of pricing that was guaranteed to bring all the not-so-online-saavy types in. Then they would find their way to CIS (which was price-dropping due to the competition), and show up in CIS chat space.
> 
> We could always tell that they were "AOL Christmas modems" because they had miserable netiquette, particularly evident when they would enter a CIS chat room, blurt out "M or F?" or "age/sex check" and expect all the participants to announce their answer, which I guess was standard behavior at the time in AOL chatspace. It was *not* standard behavior on CIS, and we proceeded to pummel them mercilessly for "morfing" the room.
> 
> Oh, those days were fun. Muhahahaha. AOL won though, ultimately consuming CIS whole by acquisition.


Thanks for the refresher! I do remember a lot of that stuff now. Actually, my first on-line experience was a cheap 1200 baud modem that included Prodigy. Anyway, back to the topic.


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## pl1

richsadams said:


> I don't think so. If you re-read a couple of the posts I believe they are saying that Comcast is the one that needs to reset things on their end, that TiVo doesn't have anything to do with it. I could be wrong but that's what I got out of it.


You got me there. I'm not so sure who or what generates the data id and the host ID. I thought that the HOST was the device, so shouldn't that create the HOST ID? Good question.


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## cjv2

richsadams said:


> I don't think so. If you re-read a couple of the posts I believe they are saying that Comcast is the one that needs to reset things on their end, that TiVo doesn't have anything to do with it. I could be wrong but that's what I got out of it.


test drive,

richsadams is correct. That's exactly what I'm saying. From the Comcast perspective, the host ID is arbitrary data. Their job is to take whatever the Tivo says is its Host ID and stuff it into their system alongside the Data and CableCard serial number.

To the extent that Comcast is saying "well we can't use THAT host ID," well, that's just nuts. I have personally gotten host ID data changed at Comcast - by talking to the right people (i.e., those who actually know something). I found those people by emailing [email protected], which is what I recommended earlier.

Given what has been said about how the Host ID changes, and that yours does not, I am at a loss to explain that particular phenomenon. But the roadblock you hit from Comcast about their system having permanently married the Host ID you have with that specific physical M-Card - forever - well, meh.

If you want to talk to Tivo about it, though, call them at 866-986-8486.


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## test drive

cjv2 said:


> test drive,
> 
> richsadams is correct. That's exactly what I'm saying. From the Comcast perspective, the host ID is arbitrary data. Their job is to take whatever the Tivo says is its Host ID and stuff it into their system alongside the Data and CableCard serial number.
> 
> To the extent that Comcast is saying "well we can't use THAT host ID," well, that's just nuts. I have personally gotten host ID data changed at Comcast - by talking to the right people (i.e., those who actually know something). I found those people by emailing [email protected], which is what I recommended earlier.
> 
> Given what has been said about how the Host ID changes, and that yours does not, I am at a loss to explain that particular phenomenon. But the roadblock you hit from Comcast about their system having permanently married the Host ID you have with that specific physical M-Card - forever - well, meh.
> 
> If you want to talk to Tivo about it, though, call them at 866-986-8486.


First, thanks Rich for following this with me from our last posts - appreciate that...cjv2, appreciate your point and advice and pl1 thanks for reply...seems to me from scanning the rest of the Board and faqs, and given Comcast is punting to Tivo in a big way, I'll go the Tivo Cablecard hotline, get them to run whatever relevant dx, and if they report it's the cards, i'll ask if they would be willing get comcast on phone with us altogether...


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## richsadams

test drive said:


> I'll go the Tivo Cablecard hotline, get them to run whatever relevant dx, and if they report it's the cards, i'll ask if they would be willing get comcast on phone with us altogether...


Sounds like a good plan to me. :up:


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## cjv2

test drive said:


> First, thanks Rich for following this with me from our last posts - appreciate that...cjv2, appreciate your point and advice and pl1 thanks for reply...seems to me from scanning the rest of the Board and faqs, and given Comcast is punting to Tivo in a big way, I'll go the Tivo Cablecard hotline, get them to run whatever relevant dx, and if they report it's the cards, i'll ask if they would be willing get comcast on phone with us altogether...


I'm pretty sure they'll be willing to get on the phone with you and Comcast. Good luck.

Oh, that 866 number isn't the "Tivo CableCard Hotline" per se. I know a Tivo article says it is, but when I called it, they advised me that they're just general Tivo support and CableCards come with the work. So don't freak out if they don't know what a CableCard Hotline is.


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## joanzen

Just two more cents added into the already overflowing pot... I have an S3 and HD. Comcast (South Florida) came out and installed an M-card (Scientific Atlanta) into the HD and it worked with no problem. I was very hopeful. Then we came to the S3. The tech thought only one M-card was needed. I explained everything I'd read, but he was convinced, so he gave it a try and installed the one M-card. Sure enough, only one tuner. He contacted his support and, guess what, we needed to install a card into both slots. So he installed a second M-card and it wouldn't work. Tried 3 others and no dice. That's all he had so he came back the next day with a stack of 5 S-cards and a couple M-cards. He removed the M-card which was working (because according to him two M-cards would interfere with each other...) and installed two S-cards. One worked and one didn't. He tried the other 3 S-cards and none worked (two of them weren't even recognized by the TiVo). He wanted to come back the next day with more S-cards. I explained that the S3 treats the cards as S-cards, even if they are M-cards. So why not try the M-card that worked before. He agreed, but wasn't hopeful. It worked! So I have an S3 with one S-card and one M-card. Seems like there are all sorts of variations on this situation. I consider myself lucky!

Also, re: the host id issues. No matter how many different cards we tried, the host id was always the same for each of the S3 slots. It never changed.


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## richsadams

joanzen said:


> Just two more cents added into the already overflowing pot... I have an S3 and HD. Comcast (South Florida) came out and installed an M-card (Scientific Atlanta) into the HD and it worked with no problem. I was very hopeful. Then we came to the S3. The tech thought only one M-card was needed. I explained everything I'd read, but he was convinced, so he gave it a try and installed the one M-card. Sure enough, only one tuner. He contacted his support and, guess what, we needed to install a card into both slots. So he installed a second M-card and it wouldn't work. Tried 3 others and no dice. That's all he had so he came back the next day with a stack of 5 S-cards and a couple M-cards. He removed the M-card which was working (because according to him two M-cards would interfere with each other...) and installed two S-cards. One worked and one didn't. He tried the other 3 S-cards and none worked (two of them weren't even recognized by the TiVo). He wanted to come back the next day with more S-cards. I explained that the S3 treats the cards as S-cards, even if they are M-cards. So why not try the M-card that worked before. He agreed, but wasn't hopeful. It worked! So I have an S3 with one S-card and one M-card. Seems like there are all sorts of variations on this situation. I consider myself lucky!
> 
> Also, re: the host id issues. No matter how many different cards we tried, the host id was always the same for each of the S3 slots. It never changed.


Good feedback. :up: One more tech in the world that gets TiVo now (although odds are he won't see too many S3's in the future). Did you ask for a discount for leading the training session?


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## cjv2

joanzen said:


> Also, re: the host id issues. No matter how many different cards we tried, the host id was always the same for each of the S3 slots. It never changed.


I wonder if the changing host ID thing might be unique to the combo of a TivoHD and an M-Card?


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## Grumock

joanzen said:


> Also, re: the host id issues. No matter how many different cards we tried, the host id was always the same for each of the S3 slots. It never changed.


Right the Host IDs would never change unless you are changing out the HOST (TIVO). Now if both Host IDs were the same for both slots, that would be a TIVO issue. Normally the Hosts are close to the same with each slot except the last 2 or 3 numbers.


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## wkearney99

There have been enough stories about cablecard problems to make me think there's got to be something to explain it. Are the cards themselves that flaky? Or is there some sort of extra sensitivity the cards have to the connection back to the head office? Just what the heck is going on with these things?


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## joanzen

Grumock said:


> Right the Host IDs would never change unless you are changing out the HOST (TIVO). Now if both Host IDs were the same for both slots, that would be a TIVO issue. Normally the Hosts are close to the same with each slot except the last 2 or 3 numbers.


Exactly. On mine, slot 1 ends in 847 and slot 2 853. Not sure why, according to a previous post, Comcast thought TiVo should issue a new one each time you insert a new card.


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## pl1

joanzen said:


> Exactly. On mine, slot 1 ends in 847 and slot 2 853. Not sure why, according to a previous post, Comcast thought TiVo should issue a new one each time you insert a new card.


Because it did issue a new HOST ID and DATA ID on my THD. I wrote down the before and after numbers. They changed with a new card in the same TiVo. And the tech expected it to change. Just reporting the facts.


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## cjv2

pl1 said:


> Because it did issue a new HOST ID and DATA ID on my THD. I wrote down the before and after numbers. They changed with a new card in the same TiVo. And the tech expected it to change. Just reporting the facts.


Just to add to this, when I switched from 2 S-Cards to 1 M-Card, the host ID that appeared for the M-Card did *not* match either of the host IDs that were showing up when I had the pair of S-Cards. Like pl1, I have no explanation.


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## pl1

cjv2 said:


> Just to add to this, when I switched from 2 S-Cards to 1 M-Card, the host ID that appeared for the M-Card did *not* match either of the host IDs that were showing up when I had the pair of S-Cards. Like pl1, I have no explanation.


I've been doing a little research on this and I found one comment that suggests Comcast does in fact generate the HOST ID and DATA ID, and that it does change if they delete a cableCARD. This may explain why my HOST ID changed.

I specifically remember my tech speaking with the offsite CSR. He asked him to delete the card in my THD and restore it to his inventory. Then he asked the offsite CSR to remove a new card from his inventory to put in my THD. After that was done, it was then installed in to my THD, and new fields were generated.

So, if in the other cases, the off site CSR did NOT delete the old card, the HOST ID presumably would NOT change. This may also mean that Comcast does in fact control both the HOST ID and DATA ID. Not the cableCARD itself.

(I'm still trying to figure out what actually generates the HOST ID and DATA ID, because we all know that moving the cableCARD to a new device generates new numbers. And I believe it would generate new numbers without Comcast even being connected.)

EDIT: Maybe, as long as the headend sees the the same host, it will allow that HOST ID, as long as the original cableCARD is not deleted from the Comcast side?

http://oddballupdate.com/2008/01/01/tivo-hd-comcast-and-cablecards/



> Three calls later, I managed to get hold of another guy who was able to figure out what had happened. He added the card back to my account. Unfortunately, as I was soon to learn, when a CableCARD is deleted from a Comcast account, it generates a new Card ID - probably as a security measure. This breaks the "pairing" we had established with my TiVo box, since the "pair" consists of two values: the ID of the card, and the ID of the slot it's installed in. If a card is not paired, it cannot receive any signals or packets sent to it by the cable company. So, the card was not able to get the messages about the channel lineup I should receive, and as a result, it only gave me the basic digital tier and the free-to-air HD channels. My Encore movie channels and extended HD tier was unavailable.


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## cjv2

Very interesting.


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## joanzen

pl1 said:


> Because it did issue a new HOST ID and DATA ID on my THD. I wrote down the before and after numbers. They changed with a new card in the same TiVo. And the tech expected it to change. Just reporting the facts.


Interesting. I suppose it's just different behavior between the two machines (HD vs S3). I assumed that the host id was a static identifier for a specific machine or, in the case of the S3, a slot within a machine. Then the cablecard provider would be able to associate a card to a specific host and prevent the use of that card with any other machine/host. Based on your experience, it doesn't work that way with the HD. I have no idea. It just shouldn't be so hard.


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## test drive

joanzen said:


> Interesting...It just shouldn't be so hard.


Well, here's my update...just spoke to Tivo technical support - very informed and customer oriented as always - and he confirmed what Comcast had reported to me, ie, for each new cable card, Tivo should generate a new host ID# for pairing...after i described all the issues, and then was able to generate a new host ID# with the same card in the 2nd slot, he confirmed that likely the first Tivo box slot was "bad". Very straightforward, informed and rapid reply this time without any dx bs....RichA, I am throwing in the towel

p.s. CSR promised Tivo would try to make it up to me somehow for the multiple firmware and hardware bugs i ran into over the multiple units that I had over the past few weeks, which I genuinely appreciated, but I told him I wasn't really in it for that, just wanted one that worked from "Welcome...", on. Great folks at Tivo...hope the QC catches up soon. Cheers.


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## richsadams

test drive said:


> Well, here's my update<snip>


Understood...but that's too bad. So no TiVo at all? I'd give them one more chance, I'm sure they'd give you something in return. But I get it if you don't want to. In any case...best of luck with whatever you decide! :up:


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## politicks

I had a multistream card installed in my TivoHD on Feb 5th. Once the tech called the home office, I tested a bunch of channels and figured everthing was good. I could tune ESPN SD, ESPN HD, and a bunch of others. I could not tune any of the SDV channels because I dont have a TA yet. Later that night my TivoHD was set to record Mad Money at 6:00PM and instead it recorded something on CMT. After some investigating I found that most channels above 10 and below the HD range (800-900) are not the same as on a regular TV or my cable box connnected TV. Has anyone seen this before? It's almost like the M-card is programmed for a different region. I have had 2 techs at my house since and they both tried to troubleshoot the cable box (which has nothing to do with the TivoHD).

Thanks,

Brian Barker


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## Phantom Gremlin

politicks said:


> Later that night my TivoHD was set to record Mad Money at 6:00PM and instead it recorded something on CMT.


Once you get your problems sorted out you should schedule 2 manual season passes for Mad Money. I record at 6PM and at 11PM (actually at 3PM and 8PM since I'm on the west coast). Don't want to miss a minute of Cramer's lunacy.


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## pl1

brettatk said:


> I've been avoiding having to have Charter send someone out. Even getting them to send a hit doesn't seem to help. All my channels come in, but it sucks sometime when I get home late at night and find out it didn't record anything. Thanks for the info though, nice to see I'm not alone. I might hold off until shows are airing reruns again. I'd hate to have Charter really screw things up and be without a Tivo at all for awhile.


UPDATE: (Hoping not to jinx anything ) I had a Comcast tech come out two weeks ago Saturday, and he installed a new cableCARD. That appears to have fixed the problem entirely for me so far. So, this is a cableCARD that worked fine for two years and just went bad. I believe it got worse every time that comcast sent a hit.

Timing wise, it coincides with a Netflix caused reboot (which also took out my hard drive). Could just be a cooincidence. Never the less, all is now good. There was no charge (that I'm aware of) and in fact I received three months free HBO for them having to come out twice in one month.

So, it may be worth letting Charter give you a new card.


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## brettatk

Quick question. I currently have two "S" cards in my Tivo HD. I've been experiencing some trouble and think the issue lies with the cablecards. If I have Charter come out and bring one "M" card to replace the "S" cards, should I take the "S" cards out and rerun guided setup or just wait till he gets here, pop out the "S" cards and put in the "M" card and have him initialize and validate it?


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## pl1

brettatk said:


> Quick question. I currently have two "S" cards in my Tivo HD. I've been experiencing some trouble and think the issue lies with the cablecards. If I have Charter come out and bring one "M" card to replace the "S" cards, should I take the "S" cards out and rerun guided setup or just wait till he gets here, pop out the "S" cards and put in the "M" card and have him initialize and validate it?


Just wait. I do not think you will need to rerun anything. It just knows you have an M-Card and uses both tuners.


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## brettatk

pl1 said:


> Just wait. I do not think you will need to rerun anything. It just knows you have an M-Card and uses both tuners.


Thanks. I would think that would be the case, but figured it wouldn't hurt to make sure.


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## wkearney99

I swapped out the pair of S cards in my TivoHD for an M with no issues. The verizon tech had to call in the M card numbers but nothing had to be changed on the Tivo at all. It just understood how to use the single M card instead of the pair of S cards. And has worked without a single problem for quite a while now.


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## brettatk

I finally decided to call Charter and have someone come to replace my two S cards with one M card. I was surprised that they had an appointment available today so I took it. Hopefully everything will go over smoothly. When I first got my Tivo HD a few years ago it took them 3 trips before they got it working. Hopefully since then they've learned some things and it will go off without a hitch.


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## brettatk

I'm curious if all cable companies regularly act this way. Charter missed their appointment yesterday. I finally called around 6:30 pm and was told they were really backed up and they weren't going to make it. This is probably the 3rd time I've scheduled an appointment for Charter and they simply didn't who up without calling and telling me. I've never dealt with any other company that does this on such a regular basis. Are they so comfortable with their "almost" monopoly that they just dont care? Not that it matters to them, but I flat out told them I was switching to Uverse when it was offered in my area. 

Anyway, they have guaranteed someone to show up today from 3-5, so we'll see. I did tell the person last night I would not pay for a truck roll out since they missed their appoinment yesterday. I bet these customer service reps get sick of people complaining to them when it's the local offices dispatching the techs that screw everything up.


----------



## richsadams

brettatk said:


> I'm curious if all cable companies regularly act this way. Charter missed their appointment yesterday.


Doesn't that just fry you? Not even a courtesy call?  IIRC there were some specific laws enacted to address just that sort of abuse. I think there are some monetary penalties involved...fines and maybe some sort of credit they have to give you on your account. I'd do some research for your area, there are usually local statutes and the FCC may have some info as well. If you really want to make an impact a letter to your city councilman should get their attention as that's generally who approves ongoing agreements for their services.

At minimum a complaint and threat (politely) that you intend to do something like contacting the council and/or go to the competition if there is any, unless they make you whole should get you a month's service credit.

We have competition in our area (Comcast, Verizon, Qwest and some others). It's amazing how some competition turns customer service around.

Let us know how things go.


----------



## slowbiscuit

You definitely need to put the heat on them via your local franchise board. You could also google the phone numbers for Charter's regional ops VPs and ring your guy up.


----------



## brettatk

Charter actually showed up on Friday so I got my two S cards swapped out for a M card. Everything went pretty smoothy, the guy said they do a lot of Tivo's these days. I'm hoping this solves my problem with the unit locking up. I guess I'll see as before it could go a week or two before it locked up.

I might see if I can find an email for a Regional VP or something and submit a letter. It wouldn't hurt I suppose. They guy that was here on Friday said some lady scheduled him 6 appointments in a two hour time block. I guess I can see now why they are so backed up.


----------



## mattack

Does the CableCard Pairing screen still say "in order to start cable service for this device, please contact..." even if you HAVE set it up?

From the FAQ, apparently my new card isn't validated. (Though it doesn't actually give info about the M card for the pairing info..)

..and moving my 2 S cards from my TivoHD to my S3 doesn't seem to have worked either.. I did the online chat, and they SUPPOSEDLY set them up -- but I never gave Host ID info.. so I think those aren't validated either (but those do say they're paired). I get basically all of the expanded basic and even some movie channels like TCM.. but at least on one of the tivos, trying to go to the hbo channels puts up the "start cable service" page..

and I presume it doesn't matter WHERE I am in the Tivo (even at the pairing screen) when they send out the hit/have successfully paired?

thanks


----------



## mattack

OK, so I got the two cablecards I moved from the Tivo HD to my S3 supposedly re-paired (I got the "good" 161-4 error). For some reason they're having problems pairing the new M card I got for my TivoHD.

They're claiming that I have to reboot my Tivo to get the two cablecards working in my S3 -- and even after the (good) 161-4 errors, I do indeed get the please contact your cable provider screen when I try to tune to HBO.. (Which I had previously been getting when the cards were in the TivoHD) I'm recording off a channel I do get at the moment, so I will try rebooting later.

(I probably made this harder than it needed to be -- last year when I got the two cablecards, it was more convenient at that time to put them in the TivoHD, even though it had a smaller hard drive.. I probably should have put them in my S3 in the first place even though I knew it required 2 cards.)


----------



## kirby34

I just wanted to say "THANK YOU" to the TiVo Community for the very helpful information on installing a cable card and getting it activated and paired. While it didn't help the Comcast CSR who was woefully lost (he kept referring to some script program he was following), at least I knew what was needed. His supervisor told him to transfer me to Sales for some reason and then that guy transferred me to Video where the young lady there knew EXACTLY what needed to be done and took care of it in less than 5 minutes. 

It actually took me longer to drive to-and-from my Comcast service store to pick up the card than it took to get the card working.

Edit: Weird...just noticed this was my first post and I registered almost 2 years ago. LOL.


----------



## richsadams

kirby34 said:


> I just wanted to say "THANK YOU" to the TiVo Community for the very helpful information on installing a cable card and getting it activated and paired.


Sooo, a long-time lurker eh?  A belated welcome to the Forum and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## skiguy32

I went down to my local Charter office the other day and told them that I wanted to upgrade from just basic cable to the premium channels package and that I know in order to do so I would have to have a tech come out and install some cable cards into my S3 tivo so that I access & record those channels. The earliest they could send someone was today (Sunday 7/11/10) so the guy comes and installs *one* Mcard and I told them at the office that I would probally need 2 cards and to make sure the tech brought 2! Well, he did but said that I would be fine with just the one Mcard cause it does the same thing as what 2 Scards would do. He installed it in the bottom slot and after calling into dispatch and giving them the serial #'s and stuff they were able to get it configured and I get all the digital channels now except the Premium Channels like HBO & Showtime. Those channels are coming up in the program guide now and shows what is showing but there in no picture or sound! All the other channels are fine! I couldn't find on the help forum anywhere what I need to do to fix this problem. The tech left it like this cause he said he had another job to go to but said that the picture shoud pop up in 24 hours! I think that was just a cop out though cause he had another job to go to so what should I do?


----------



## richsadams

Skiguy, if you have the original Series3 (not a TiVo HD/HDXL) you _must_ have two cable cards to us both tuners, no exceptions. They need to come back out, install and activate the second cable card and you'll be good to go.

With respect to the premium channels, they may need to re-initiate your cable card(s). Might as well wait until they come back...then don't let them leave until everything is working.


----------



## betts4

Cable guy from comcast is on his way here to install. I have written some notes down but I sure hope he knows what he is doing. I am nervous and excited. Thank you ahead of time for the thread no matter what happens.


----------



## richsadams

betts4 said:


> Cable guy from comcast is on his way here to install. I have written some notes down but I sure hope he knows what he is doing. I am nervous and excited. Thank you ahead of time for the thread no matter what happens.


By now most cable card installers have had some experience with TiVo. You should be able to give him the cable card instruction sheet that came with your TiVo and be in good shape.

Here's a little TiVo step-by-step video about setting up your TiVo as well as links to the various cable card installation instructions...

TiVo Cable Card Setup Video: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/cablecard-wizard/index.html

TiVo Premiere/Premiere XL Cable Card Setup: http://support.tivo.com/ci/fattach/get/5476/1267644021/redirect/1

TiVo HD/HDXL Cable Card Setup: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135/c/105,110/r_id/100041

TiVo Series3 Cable Card Setup: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/136/c/105,110/r_id/100041

Enjoy!


----------



## betts4

richsadams said:


> By now most cable card installers have had some experience with TiVo. You should be able to give him the cable card instruction sheet that came with your TiVo and be in good shape.
> 
> Here's a little TiVo step-by-step video about setting up your TiVo as well as links to the various cable card installation instructions...
> 
> TiVo HD/HDXL Cable Card Setup: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135/c/105,110/r_id/100041
> 
> Enjoy!


thanks! Everything went well - once he realized that he had a MS card and not a S card. The Tivo told him that a couple times before he got it. But all is well and working. I have said it before, but I love this forum.


----------



## richsadams

betts4 said:


> thanks! Everything went well - once he realized that he had a MS card and not a S card. The Tivo told him that a couple times before he got it. But all is well and working. I have said it before, but I love this forum.


Sweet! Enjoy your new TiVo!


----------



## amelnik

Good reading, learned so much.:up:


----------



## kimsmarkin

The access to the premium high-definition computer has escaped most of the futures prices as soon as we learned it was finally possible for anyone to add a Cable card tuner for almost any Media Centre We knew we had treat, and, above all, to share with you exactly how. This really does not require any hacking or anything illegal for that matter - who are not lawyers - but not cheap. The internal version of the ATI digital cable tuner above can be found on ebay for about $ 195, or new suppliers of PC and PC-barrel to just under $ 300.


----------



## rmplum

I'm about 3 days into my Multistream cable card attempts on our TiVo HD.

First card was no good (couldn't be paired), the one I got yesterday seems ok, but having issues getting all of my channels to come through.

One interesting thing that happened was with the HDMI that I had been using to connect my TiVo to my Denon AVR - once the cable signal was input it kept giving me warnings that these channels cannot be viewed through HDMI, please install the component cables that came with your box. I had been using the HDMI for 2+ years with my OTA service, but the basic analog cable channels didn't like it. Worked fine for OTA.

Running component and optical now, and everything seems ok - except for the channels that I'm still not getting. I'm meeting the guys in the truck at my house in about an hour for our 3rd try.

Argh.


----------



## budweisr33

Cable card install took 30 mins and went smooth,not a single issue.WOW cable,which has and is 1 of the best cable providers I have ever had,the CSR's awesome,the DVR never a problem,The tech's very well trained for the detroit area.


----------



## richsadams

budweisr33 said:


> Cable card install took 30 mins and went smooth,not a single issue.WOW cable,which has and is 1 of the best cable providers I have ever had,the CSR's awesome,the DVR never a problem,The tech's very well trained for the detroit area.


It sounds like Comcast, TWC, Cox and a few others should send their employees to apprentice with WOW.


----------



## budweisr33

I shall be working for WOW when my unemployment is over.great Employee benefits and good hours;4 days @ 10 hours or 5 days @ 8hrs with 3 shifts per day.


----------



## richsadams

budweisr33 said:


> I shall be working for WOW when my unemployment is over.great Employee benefits and good hours;4 days @ 10 hours or 5 days @ 8hrs with 3 shifts per day.


Glad to be hear you'll be gainfully employed soon! :up:


----------



## necrochaos

After having a cablecard installed does it take for guide information to fill the new channels?

It's been a week and I have 4-5 HD channels that still have no guide info. Should I run guided setup again?


----------



## a68oliver

Probably not. If you can watch programming on the channelsl, but have no guide info, I don't think repeating guided setup will help.

See this Tivo troubleshooting FAQ for detailed info. If it doesn't get things fixed, then use the link at the bottom of the page to report the missing channels to Tivo.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/211


----------



## necrochaos

a68oliver said:


> Probably not. If you can watch programming on the channelsl, but have no guide info, I don't think repeating guided setup will help.
> 
> See this Tivo troubleshooting FAQ for detailed info. If it doesn't get things fixed, then use the link at the bottom of the page to report the missing channels to Tivo.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/211


Well, I did do a guided setup again (before your reply). But this time, something weird happened. Not all of the channels were checked in channels list. the ones I had to check manually (to add them to the guide, including some basic channels) have TBA for over 3 hours. All my other basic/digitial channels have info. Still missing the same HD channels. Now I'm not sure what to do.

Turned off filters, didn't help. But I'm missing info from channels that I previously had.

So actually, I just put myself in a worse position.


----------



## richsadams

necrochaos said:


> Well, I did do a guided setup again (before your reply). But this time, something weird happened. Not all of the channels were checked in channels list. the ones I had to check manually (to add them to the guide, including some basic channels) have TBA for over 3 hours. All my other basic/digitial channels have info. Still missing the same HD channels. Now I'm not sure what to do.
> 
> Turned off filters, didn't help. But I'm missing info from channels that I previously had.
> 
> So actually, I just put myself in a worse position.


Did you try connecting to the mothership again? IIRC TiVo will only download guide data for the channels that you receive (the ones you've checked).

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

you might have to do that a couple of times to get everything. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## dforemsky

Tomorrow, Verizon is coming out to install a cablecard in a new (to me) TivoHD, and hopefully replace the single stream cards in two other TivoHD units. (from everything I have seen on here, FiOS is all multi stream cards now, right?)

I am planning on pulling the existing single stream cards from the two older TivoHDs before the tech gets there. Do I need to do anything special before the tech puts the new multi stream card in? Will the Tivos recognize the card as a new one and reconfigure?

Should I give the single stream cards back to the tech? I was planning on keeping them and calling Verizon next week for a box to send the single stream cards back to them.


----------



## a68oliver

richsadams said:


> Did you try connecting to the mothership again? IIRC TiVo will only download guide data for the channels that you receive (the ones you've checked).


Rich, I don't think you recalled correctly. I just checked and I have program info for HBO, a channel I do not receive and do not have checked. I believe Tivo/Tribune Media Service attempts to provide program info for every channel that the cable company makes available whether you subscribe to it or not.

Although, as I check my list, I can see that I also have several channels that I don't subsribe to but are available from the cable company that have TBA listed for the program info.

Again, If the OP is sure he has selected the correct headend/lineup then the next step is to report the problem to Tivo with their Channel Lineup Trouble form listed ealier in the thread.


----------



## richsadams

a68oliver said:


> Rich, I don't think you recalled correctly. I just checked and I have program info for HBO, a channel I do not receive and do not have checked. I believe Tivo/Tribune Media Service attempts to provide program info for every channel that the cable company makes available whether you subscribe to it or not.
> 
> Although, as I check my list, I can see that I also have several channels that I don't subsribe to but are available from the cable company that have TBA listed for the program info.
> 
> Again, If the OP is sure he has selected the correct headend/lineup then the next step is to report the problem to Tivo with their Channel Lineup Trouble form listed ealier in the thread.


Got it. I haven't looked at that stuff for quite a while.

Yep, if after connecting a couple of times things don't get resolved, it would be time to talk to TiVo about it.


----------



## richsadams

dforemsky said:


> Tomorrow, Verizon is coming out to install a cablecard in a new (to me) TivoHD, and hopefully replace the single stream cards in two other TivoHD units. (from everything I have seen on here, FiOS is all multi stream cards now, right?)
> 
> I am planning on pulling the existing single stream cards from the two older TivoHDs before the tech gets there. Do I need to do anything special before the tech puts the new multi stream card in? Will the Tivos recognize the card as a new one and reconfigure?
> 
> Should I give the single stream cards back to the tech? I was planning on keeping them and calling Verizon next week for a box to send the single stream cards back to them.


Yes, the VZ tech should only have M cards on board.

Yes, TiVo will have no problem recognizing the new cable card. There's really no need to pull the old card(s) before he arrives. It only takes a few seconds and he can swap everything out at the same time. Then he just needs to access the cable card info screen and call in the Host ID, Serial #, etc. and you s/b good to go.

Here are the instructions JIC:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135

FWIW he will probably only check a few key channels...hold him up for a few more minutes and be sure all of your premiums are working as well. There are more than a few stories about some but not all channels working and it's worth it to be sure. It's happened to me a couple of times and after spending time on the phone it was resolved, but it's aggravating to have to follow up when you can check and be sure while the tech is there.

The S cards belong to VZ. If you give them to the tech he should note it (along with their Serial numbers) on your work order.


----------



## dforemsky

richsadams said:


> Y
> The S cards belong to VZ. If you give them to the tech he should note it (along with their Serial numbers) on your work order.


Thanks for your help. I have every intention of returning the cards, I just wanted to avoid the possibility of a truck roll fee since two of the three Tivos already have Cable Cards.


----------



## richsadams

dforemsky said:


> Thanks for your help. I have every intention of returning the cards, I just wanted to avoid the possibility of a truck roll fee since two of the three Tivos already have Cable Cards.


Never doubted you'd return them...just wanted to advise that you make sure you have a record of them being returned JIC. Let us know how things go.


----------



## kellykhori

I had two cable cards installed by TWC yesterday. The tech said he had never done a TIVO before. I took him 1 hour and 45 minutes on my Series 3. He was very polite and understanding.


----------



## richsadams

kellykhori said:


> I had two cable cards installed by TWC yesterday. The tech said he had never done a TIVO before. I took him 1 hour and 45 minutes on my Series 3. He was very polite and understanding.


Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info. Seems pretty rare to have techs that haven't seen a TiVo these days, but it happens. He might have been new to the job as well I suppose. Glad to hear he was able to get things going though.

Don't be a stranger!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> Yes, the VZ tech should only have M cards on board.


Nah, a *good* VZ tech will have access to either S cards or M cards, and will know that some TiVos require one type, some require another type. My VZ tech earlier this year knew this!


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Nah, a *good* VZ tech will have access to either S cards or M cards, and will know that some TiVos require one type, some require another type. My VZ tech earlier this year knew this!


Oh...you know better..the Series3 can use two S _or_ two M cable cards. (FWIW our S3 has two M cards) The TiVo HD/HDXL can use two S or one M card and the TiVo Premiere and Premiere XL require one M card.

FWIW the VZ tech that I spoke to a couple of months ago said that they haven't had S cards for about a year. AFAIK that's pretty much the case nationally although some could be scrounging around in an old box of supplies out back I suppose.


----------



## Robbdoe1

Rich,
I sprung for the HD from Block Buster yesterday  cause I was starting to get shaky. Brighthouse let me call in the CC info :up:. I had 1 S card and 1 M card (SA) from the defective S3. I used the M card in slot 1 and Tivo saw it and poped up the MMI screen. I gave Brighthouse the SN from the card and the Host ID from the MMI screen. All is good except for a few of the copy protected channels that I should be getting.

When I select 1 of these channels the MMI screen pops up. I used the info from Tivo Support to determine on the CP info screen that the card is not bound and paired with the slot.

It says: Auth Status: Waiting for CP Auth.

Any thoughts on how to get BHN to fix it? I called a few times but they are not getting me. I do have a truck roll for Sunday if I can't get it before then.

Thanks.
Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Rich,
> I sprung for the HD from Block Buster yesterday  cause I was starting to get shaky. Brighthouse let me call in the CC info :up:. I had 1 S card and 1 M card (SA) from the defective S3. I used the M card in slot 1 and Tivo saw it and poped up the MMI screen. I gave Brighthouse the SN from the card and the Host ID from the MMI screen. All is good except for a few of the copy protected channels that I should be getting.
> 
> When I select 1 of these channels the MMI screen pops up. I used the info from Tivo Support to determine on the CP info screen that the card is not bound and paired with the slot.
> 
> It says: Auth Status: Waiting for CP Auth.
> 
> Any thoughts on how to get BHN to fix it? I called a few times but they are not getting me. I do have a truck roll for Sunday if I can't get it before then.
> 
> Thanks.
> Robb


Almost there I see! Believe me, I fully understand why you wouldn't want to go w/o TiVo one minute longer!  Cool that your cableco is progressive enough to let you call in the numbers. However the problem with some of the channels sounds like an authorization issue and it's almost certainly on BHN's end. Unless you can convince someone on the other end of the phone to start from scratch and re-pair/bind the card once again you'll probably have to wait fof the tech to do it.

It's remotely possible that something is up with the cable card, a firmware issue or something, but really not likely as you'd probably see issues across the board.

If the tech has a new cable card with him, it might be worthwhile to have him install that one...at least you'll get a fresh start.

Let us know how things go!


----------



## Robbdoe1

Yep. I could not wait another minute. I figure I can always sell the refurb S3 when it arrives or I can use it . Just don't tell the Mrs.

I'm thinking the card is good since I just got all the channels that I'm now missing on the S3 a few days ago with that card. I'm sure it is on BHN's end. The truck roll is from 8-10am so I will wait till then and just let them figure it out. It sounds like the card is activated but not validated to me.

Once this is all done I just need to figure out how to sneek a 1TB drive into the house . Shhhhh!

Robb


----------



## Robbdoe1

Well that went great. I'm all set now .

We could have saved a truck roll though. They had the CC paired wrong. I spoke to 3 CS reps and confirmed the numbers 2 times Friday and 1 time Saturday to avoid a truck roll and they all confirmed the numbers were correct. The installer called in and the numbers were wrong. They had the CC SN wrong and the Host Id wrong. Oh well.

Thanks again for the help.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Well that went great. I'm all set now .
> 
> We could have saved a truck roll though. They had the CC paired wrong. I spoke to 3 CS reps and confirmed the numbers 2 times Friday and 1 time Saturday to avoid a truck roll and they all confirmed the numbers were correct. The installer called in and the numbers were wrong. They had the CC SN wrong and the Host Id wrong. Oh well.
> 
> Thanks again for the help.
> 
> Robb


Details, details!  Glad to hear that you're all set...finally. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## dforemsky

richsadams said:


> Never doubted you'd return them...just wanted to advise that you make sure you have a record of them being returned JIC. Let us know how things go.


Everything went fine. Less than an hour to put multi-stream cards in three TivoHDs (most of the time spent typing numbers into the tech's activation program. Why isn't this more automated?)

He tried to get authorization to take the single stream cards and set top box, but he couldn't and said that I would be better off calling for a return box anyway. (if you do that, they go directly to the department than can take the items off of your bill, but if he took them it may take a couple of steps to get to the right department)

All in all, pretty painless once he got there. A little annoyed since the appointment was for between 1 and 5 on Friday. The tech called my home number on Friday morning to say that he would be there between 12 and 2, called again at 12:30 that he would more likely be there between 2:30 and 3:30 and finally arrived at 3:15.


----------



## richsadams

dforemsky said:


> Everything went fine. Less than an hour to put multi-stream cards in three TivoHDs <snip>


Thanks for the follow up. It does sound like things were pretty painless...nice! Enjoy!


----------



## mchammerheim

New to the forum, and new to cablecard issues. Received a S3 from my brother when he upgraded to an XL. The S3 worked for him with 2 cablecards (as required) only a few weeks ago, so when I scheduled Comcast to come out I let them know that 2 cards were needed. The tech had 2 M-cards and did the install and activations.

Now the issue: card slot 2 does not seem to work. Problem follows the slot after we swapped cards, even after trying new card in slot 2. Diag screen show the QAM bouncing between 64 and 256(?), so the card is not locking?? Card 2 does receive some channels above analog, but not many. I have tried restarting system as well with no help. Should I do a complete system wipe?

Tivo support no help, only offered me a replacement DVR (@$149) or an upgrade (@$209) Grrrrrrr


----------



## richsadams

mchammerheim said:


> New to the forum, and new to cablecard issues. Received a S3 from my brother when he upgraded to an XL. The S3 worked for him with 2 cablecards (as required) only a few weeks ago, so when I scheduled Comcast to come out I let them know that 2 cards were needed. The tech had 2 M-cards and did the install and activations.
> 
> Now the issue: card slot 2 does not seem to work. Problem follows the slot after we swapped cards, even after trying new card in slot 2. Diag screen show the QAM bouncing between 64 and 256(?), so the card is not locking?? Card 2 does receive some channels above analog, but not many. I have tried restarting system as well with no help. Should I do a complete system wipe?
> 
> Tivo support no help, only offered me a replacement DVR (@$149) or an upgrade (@$209) Grrrrrrr


Welcome to the forum. How frustrating! It's quite possible that something has gone south with the slot, sometimes if a card is forced into place the port can be damaged. But it's more likely that the cable cards that have been tried aren't working. There have been reports of cableco techs going through as many as a half-dozen before finding one that actually works.

That said, unless you can get them to try several new cards it's going to be difficult to diagnose anything else.

The Series3 is a great DVRwe bought one when they first came out and it's still humming along (even with changing providers a few times). So if you can get things ironed out you s/b very happy with it.

Others may chime in with some additional thoughts.

Best of luck!


----------



## mchammerheim

Thanks for the reply.

The tech did look at the slot for card 2 to verify no bent pins, etc., but it is so dry here a static event is not outside of possibility.

Tech tried 3 M-cards, all worked in slot 1, none work in slot 2, so I may be SOL.I really hope to get things working with the S3, I haven't heard a lot of good things about the XL series (which is what I assume Tivo would upgrade me to), but my info is limited so far. 

Luckily I still have my Series-2 connected and working, so I can at least deal with the issue without total Tivo withdrawal.


----------



## richsadams

mchammerheim said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The tech did look at the slot for card 2 to verify no bent pins, etc., but it is so dry here a static event is not outside of possibility.
> 
> Tech tried 3 M-cards, all worked in slot 1, none work in slot 2, so I may be SOL.I really hope to get things working with the S3, I haven't heard a lot of good things about the XL series (which is what I assume Tivo would upgrade me to), but my info is limited so far.
> 
> Luckily I still have my Series-2 connected and working, so I can at least deal with the issue without total Tivo withdrawal.


Ah, got it. It does sound like an issue with the slot then. You might have a look inside (you'll need a Torx 10 screwdriver to open the case). There might be a loose wire or something I suppose.

Not sure what the upgrade might be either. Could be a TiVo HDwhich works perfectly fine, could be a TiVo HDXL as well or maybe a Premiere. Although The TiVo HD and basic Premiere both have a smaller hard drive (160GB Vs 250GB in the Series3) it might be worth a look. It's not likely it would be a TiVo Premiere XL at that price, but if it were a TiVo HDXL (1TB hard drive) I think I'd give that serious consideration (or they might let you "upgrade" for a little more).

It is indeed good that you have a TiVo in any case. Anyway, let us know how things go!


----------



## a68oliver

mchammerheim said:


> The tech had 2 M-cards and did the install and activations.
> 
> Now the issue: card slot 2 does not seem to work. Problem follows the slot after we swapped cards, even after trying new card in slot 2. Diag screen show the QAM bouncing between 64 and 256(?), so the card is not locking?? Card 2 does receive some channels above analog, but not many. I have tried restarting system as well with no help. Should I do a complete system wipe?


Did the tech completely install the first card and pair it before attempting to pair the 2nd card? The original S3 requires each card to be paired separately and not simutaineously in the phone call to home base. After swapping cards around, was there an attempt to re-pair those cards? Some of the pairing numbers will change when a card is moved to a new slot.

If a card is not properly paired, you may receive some unencrypted channels but not those that are copy protected. You said you were receiving SOME channels on the 2nd card/tuner.

There have also been reports of problems when devices were not listed on your account in the proper order at Comcast. I am not sure what the order should be, but perhaps someone else can chime in with that info.


----------



## richsadams

a68oliver said:


> Did the tech completely install the first card and pair it before attempting to pair the 2nd card? The original S3 requires each card to be paired separately and not simutaineously in the phone call to home base. After swapping cards around, was there an attempt to re-pair those cards? Some of the pairing numbers will change when a card is moved to a new slot.
> 
> If a card is not properly paired, you may receive some unencrypted channels but not those that are copy protected. You said you were receiving SOME channels on the 2nd card/tuner.
> 
> There have also been reports of problems when devices were not listed on your account in the proper order at Comcast. I am not sure what the order should be, but perhaps someone else can chime in with that info.


All very good points! It's been so long since I worked with a Series3 I neglected to consider all of those well-known variables. Thanks very much for that. :up:


----------



## mchammerheim

a68oliver said:


> Did the tech completely install the first card and pair it before attempting to pair the 2nd card? The original S3 requires each card to be paired separately and not simutaineously in the phone call to home base. After swapping cards around, was there an attempt to re-pair those cards? Some of the pairing numbers will change when a card is moved to a new slot.
> 
> If a card is not properly paired, you may receive some unencrypted channels but not those that are copy protected. You said you were receiving SOME channels on the 2nd card/tuner.
> 
> There have also been reports of problems when devices were not listed on your account in the proper order at Comcast. I am not sure what the order should be, but perhaps someone else can chime in with that info.


Thanks for the feedback. Another service call, another card installed, but slot 2 still not working on all channels. Couldn't try more cards since Comcast techs only carry at most 2 cards in their trucks at a time?! I also tried doing the activation myself (following your input) with the same results. Sad to say I may have to replace this S3 unit with a newer unit which only requires one M-card.


----------



## hmm52

I'm partial to S3s. I bought 3 more of them on Ebay last week to help friends new to TiVo. I set up the first S3 for installation last night - switched escutcheon with display module, made truncated backup image of 1TB HDD already installed, prepared it for local Verizon using one of my cards, and so forth. This morning at the destination house I removed all the Comcast equipment, straightened out cabling messes, moved furniture out of the way, even put a work table in the basement for the tech.

I've been a defender of cableco techs on this forum, Comcast and Verizon, as even the green ones have at least known to quickly call their supervisor - based on my previous experience with cablecard installs and issues dating back to 2005. The Verizon tech I dealt with today was beyond belief. To say he was incredibly surly, arrogant and obstinate in the extreme would just be a baby step towards describing this jerk. To make it even worse there were two women I know very well observing every minute of the fun we had together. The tech didn't hesitate at all to reveal his massive personality defects in front of them.

From my point of view the installation should have been a piece of cake, not the 5.5 hour debacle it turned out to be. An ONT, UPS, etc. was already installed in the garage by a previous owner using FiOS. Work only with 4 outlets - 2 digital/analog converters, 1 VZ HD STB, 1 TiVo S3; just 1 new coax; 2 Cat5e cables; router. Big deal. Early on we had a small quarrel about the need for 2 cablecards, but I thought the issue to be settled. Not so. He piddled around on his laptop for 40 minutes with only the locals showing; he thought it just needed more time; he had another appointment to go to. I told him it wasn't initialized properly and to call his supervisor. He did so with nasty reluctance and finally got everything up - on the first card.

He then announced he was done and got up to leave. I told him "No", the second card needed installation. He barked that he new cablecards and TiVos well; all Verizon cards are "two tuner" cards; no TiVos need more than one of their cards (all M cards now). I showed him the diagnostics screen with no data for tuner 0; this didn't faze him in the least. One of the women there was my sister in law; she's known me for 30 years; she's never seen me angry in all that time; until today. I was livid. I began screaming at this jerk as he made his way towards the door. It was necessary anyway to force another call to his supervisor. I spoke directly to him and he seemed reasonable; but another 20 minutes were wasted as the jerk read the S3's model and service #s over the phone to somebody. Eventually the second card install went better than the first. The tech would still be there probably if I hadn't found his van keys for him. He did manage to leave his Sunrise meter behind; AFAIK he did nothing with it besides losing and forgetting it for an hour and a half. My rage a little unsettling perhaps?

I guess my point was just to rant. In a practical way, if you are a FiOS customer living as far away from Hatboro, PA as Blue Bell, PA is and you get a tech named Pete, watch out!! He's incompetent and unbelievably arrogant to boot. If, on the other hand, the VZ tech at your door is a very cute young blond woman named Suzie, you are truly blessed! Not only is she very pleasant, she really knows her stuff; she's a great pole climber as well. Why can't they all be like Suzie?


----------



## richsadams

Holy cow! I've had my share of knowledgable and not so bright cableco techs, but that one should be nominated for some sort of prize! That you avoided inflicting bodily harm is testimony to your patience. Some folks should just not be doing what they are doing.

FWIW I too am still a big fan of the Series3. Although our Premiere XL has a few more bells and whistles...it wouldn't phase me in the least to swap it out with our Series3, which after these many years still performs like a champ.

Glad to hear that you were able to lend a hand to your friends...they'd no doubt have a lesser opinion of TiVo (and probably men in general) had you not been there. :up: Thanks for sharing the story.

BTW, it's taking everything I've got to avoid commenting about Suzie's pole climbing abilities. D'oh...too late!


----------



## hmm52

Yeah, I thought about my reference to her pole climbing abilities _after_ submitting the post. Not _before_, promise! She had such a great combination of knowledge, charm, looks and physical ability that it was impossible for me to not be very impressed. She came on a Saturday to repair damage caused by an elm branch falling on the fiber optic cable coming from street pole. Verizon PA is very reluctant to schedule Saturday appointments because of the overtime involved. But in this case everything was knocked out - phone, Internet & TV. The ONT had been mounted on exterior wall with plastic inserts and screws in holes drilled into the pointing mortar of the stone center of a house first built in the 1780s! The falling branch ripped the ONT off the wall and up in the air before the cable shredded (elm wood is on the far end of heavy). I dismantled the ONT and remounted it with Tapcon screws directly into stone. Suzie appreciated my work; I'm certain the jerk from yesterday would have resented it as meddling. The incident occurred when the love of my life (past life) was visiting from Germany for a week; also a beautiful woman. Over there you're lucky if you can get initial phone service installed in less than 3 weeks. I told her it was true: In the USA repairs are always completed within 24 hours of trouble even on weekends; and all our phone techs are just like Suzie. Of course! ---- Frontier customers excluded perhaps. FWIW I asked her who was responsible for the repair, me or VZ, as the elm was on my front lawn and had been clearly dead for some time. She said it was still just an act of Nature so it fell on Verizon; if I had been working on the tree and caused the damage, it would have fallen on me (the tab). So I opted to have a tree surgeon (great climber also; didn't notice his butt however) take down the elm as it was still enmeshed with the replacement cable.

As far as the jerk from yesterday goes, my life lesson is simple: There are plenty of wonderful people out there. When you encounter somebody new or old with little or no trust and appreciation for you, move on ASAP. There's no point in wasting a second of your short life on them. Actually once we were done, Pete the jerk said that it had been a learning experience for him; that he was the first to admit it when he was wrong. And if I had not held his feet to the fire? I hope what he learned was about civility, not just about S3s and their unique need for 2 cablecards. And I learned that there still _is_ a place for anger in my life, though only as last resort! I trust my blood pressure has stabilized by now.

I've been a sniper in picking off S3s in the last 2 seconds of auctions. I think they're great buys. I always ask the sellers if they're happy with the prices they got; they uniformly are. Most are sold because of difficulties caused by their providers, not the TiVos. One of the recent ones, the cheapest, came with 2 SA cards inserted. Piecing together the data, I'm sure the unit went through an estate auction following the death of a subscriber to Comcast Delray Beach/Boca Raton. (the seller doesn't know its history) Comcast down there is clueless as to what the issue is so I'm about to return them to the local facility in a hope that the account is credited properly. Have you ever heard of such a situation?


----------



## V7Goose

mchammerheim said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The tech did look at the slot for card 2 to verify no bent pins, etc., but it is so dry here a static event is not outside of possibility.
> 
> Tech tried 3 M-cards, all worked in slot 1, none work in slot 2, so I may be SOL.I really hope to get things working with the S3, I haven't heard a lot of good things about the XL series (which is what I assume Tivo would upgrade me to), but my info is limited so far.
> 
> Luckily I still have my Series-2 connected and working, so I can at least deal with the issue without total Tivo withdrawal.


Just an FYI - the S3 does not always like the Verizon M-cards. At least mine didn't! I have had my S3 and FiOS since long before the M-cards were even available, and it has always worked perfectly with two S-cards.

I also have a THD unit that had two S-cards in it. Last year I got Verizon back out here to swap those two S-cards for two M-cards so I could save a bit of money. Just for the heck of it, I also had him swap the two S-cards in the S3, figuring that in the future I might have a different unit that could use the M-cards, so might as well have them done now instead of having to call a tech back out in the future.

Initially things seemed to work OK, but I did not fully check out the premium channels. After the tech left, I discovered that the S3 would not receive any premium channels on any of the M-cards, but all four of them worked perfectly in my HD box. Coincidentally, I discovered that my very old Sony plasma HDTV had the same problem with the M-cards as the S3 did.

The solution was simple - I had the tech come back out the next day and give me back three of the old S-cards, which immediately worked perfectly in the S3 and the Sony HDTV. I have no idea if the tech could have gotten the new M-cards to work with my S3 - I didn't even want him to spend the time trying since the S-cards worked fine.


----------



## hmm52

It's my guess that your M cards in the S3 were not authorized properly for the premiums - a head end problem. Best way to tell would have been to try them in the TiVo HD. I've run into this fairly often with one out of my five S cards. It tends to lose its authorization and needs to be rehit by over the phone tech. Don't let in house tech leave before all types of channels are checked. Use whatever means necessary to keep him/her there...


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## V7Goose

You seem to have missed the information. As I specifically said in the last post, ALL 4 of the M-cards worked perfectly in the THD box, receiving all premium channels.

You are absolutely correct about the need to check everything in detail before the tech leaves. I made this mistake simply because I had never had any problem moving FiOS cards between my different TiVo boxes and TVs - if they worked in one, they worked in all. So when I tested the M-cards in the THD box and they did receive all channels, I had no reason to suspect they would not work the same way in the other devices.

And that was the whole reason I made the post at all - just to point out for people having trouble that there seems to be something peculiar about the way the S3 (and some other older devices) deals with M-cards differently than the old S-cards. This is even supported by what Verizon is saying in a letter they have begun sending to customers in some regions, where they state they will be making changes to their system that will cause some older devices that use cable cards to stop working. Even though they say TiVo boxes should not be affected, their letter clearly indicates that there has been some change in system specifications since the original cable cards were introduced.


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## hmm52

V7Goose said:


> Initially things seemed to work OK, but I did not fully check out the premium channels. After the tech left, I discovered that the S3 would not receive any premium channels on any of the M-cards, but all four of them worked perfectly in my HD box. Coincidentally, I discovered that my very old Sony plasma HDTV had the same problem with the M-cards as the S3 did.
> 
> I read this paragraph too quickly - 1 HD, 1 S3, 4 cards checked each way. Not good news if your case is not unique which I doubt it is. Yesterday was the first time I saw an M card, and at a glance. I assume VZ's are Motorolas. That correct?


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## V7Goose

Yes, all eight cable cards were Motorola - four S-cards, and 4 M-cards.

All four S-cards worked perfectly in the TiVoHD, the S3, and the Sony Plasma TV.

All four M-cards worked perfectly in the TiVoHD ONLY. They would only receive analog channels in the S3 AND the Sony plasma TV.

I am glad that I tested them in both the S3 and the old Sony TV, which came out around the same time as the S3 was introduced. This shows the odd problem is not specific to the TiVo Series 3, but may be related to early implementation of cable card devices.


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## hmm52

You make an interesting point. Everything I use now depends on TiVos for tuning but this wasn't the case several years ago. Back then I had cards in 2 Sony DVRs, a first generation Sony Lcos SXRD, and a small Toshiba TV. The Toshiba was problematical. Its card would fairly regularly lose the premiums or everything beyond the locals. Power cycling would sometimes restore them; swapping cards with any of the Sonys nearly always did; in the worst case the card would have to be rehit. The fact that just installation in another device awakened the lost channels suggests to me that something was amiss in the Toshiba's software related to cablecard decoding interface; and an interactivity between card and device. Perhaps that's going to be an issue now with S3s and Motorola M cards. If so, we'll be dependent on TiVo updating their software for S3s or Motorola providing a firmware update for their cards.


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## richsadams

V7Goose said:


> Initially things seemed to work OK, but I did not fully check out the premium channels. After the tech left, I discovered that the S3 would not receive any premium channels on any of the M-cards, but all four of them worked perfectly in my HD box. Coincidentally, I discovered that my very old Sony plasma HDTV had the same problem with the M-cards as the S3 did..


We had the exact same experience when we switched from Comcast to Verizon. Pulled two S cards out of the Series3 and installed two M cards. Everything looked fine...tech left and then came to find out that none of the premiums worked. Spent about an hour on the phone with VZ support and they finally reauthorized both cards...tah da! Similar issues came up when Frontier took over (a whole other rant) and each time it was a card issue. So I think it's more a matter of authorization than anything to do with the Series3. Glad things worked out though.


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## hmm52

hmm52 said:


> You make an interesting point. Everything I use now depends on TiVos for tuning but this wasn't the case several years ago. Back then I had cards in 2 Sony DVRs, a first generation Sony Lcos SXRD, and a small Toshiba TV. The Toshiba was problematical. Its card would fairly regularly lose the premiums or everything beyond the locals. Power cycling would sometimes restore them; swapping cards with any of the Sonys nearly always did; in the worst case the card would have to be rehit. The fact that just installation in another device awakened the lost channels suggests to me that something was amiss in the Toshiba's software related to cablecard decoding interface; and an interactivity between card and device. Perhaps that's going to be an issue now with S3s and Motorola M cards. If so, we'll be dependent on TiVo updating their software for S3s or Motorola providing a firmware update for their cards.


I should have mentioned a little more. Once a cablecard with lost channels in the Toshiba had been reawakened in any of the Sonys (usually the TV), the card held all the channels when reinserted into the Toshiba - until the next time it lost channels. On the occasions that the Sonys did not restore channels to the card, a phone tech was needed for rehit. This was rare, less than 5%. So with my adventures with this Toshiba, it wasn't a head end problem. Tail end would be apt. Initialization and authorization remained through at least 95% of the events


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## hmm52

Well, I've joined the club! I requested *1* additional cablecard from Verizon on Monday. The agent assured me 3 times that it would be UPSed for self install - no charge. You all know the rest of the story; automated call yesterday informing me of FiOS TV installation scheduled for a Friday window of *8:00AM to 5:00PM*. After being rerouted through the system for 20+ minutes, the CSR confirmed that no VZ cards are self installed but he would waive the *$79.95* truck roll charge due to the agent's confusion. *$79.95* to stop by & set up 1 cablecard? It must be Pete the jerk and _cablecard expert_. My luck has to change with VZ. Are you listening, Suzie?


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## mdowden

jfh3 said:


> OK - have to work on some updates. Any suggestions for other questions?


Yes.... you should talk about tuning adapters. At least in my TW area (Dayton), the cable card is worthless on the HD and digital 'bands' without the tuning adapter because of Switch Digital Video (SDV).

I wouldn't say completely worthless....but you will be missing a LOT of channels....Channels that you want.


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## hmm52

The 1 cablecard install with VZ went OK; not great. At least I got a very nice guy, Mike, instead of the fool from Tuesday. He also swapped out the router for free with an Actiontec wireless N. This was easy. Cablecard should have gone better but he hadn't done one for 9 months. He set it up from inside his van rather than using customer's laptop as done Tuesday; apparently some confusion with which and how many numbers to enter; I was otherwise occupied so it didn't matter to me how long it took.

Once he left, I inserted the donor S card from my primary residence into slot 2. It sorted itself within a minute or so. Seems to get along fine with the M card below. I don't intend this as a permanent setup as I know Verizon pings the cards (or some such thing) every so often and they might have a way to see that a card from a different account is in operation miles from its billing address (if anybody's paying attention on their end). But it's worked for me in the past during times when visitors have been around for up to two weeks. The cards reset so quickly that I think I'll put a spare S3 into the bedroom and just move 1 or both cards upstairs when wanted. 

I told Mike I was a little disappointed that it wasn't Suzie at the door. Her name brings a smile with all the local VZ techs. I found out a little more about her. She's been with VZ for 10 years, the first 5 of them in office. She got tired of that so trained for field work and has been doing it for the recent 5 years. Good for her! As he sees her at the end of each day, I asked him to pass it on that I'd be heaving branches at the fiber optic in the hope I could make it shred again; expect a service call here. Wish me luck...


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## willv28

Hey everyone. I just got a new Premiere. Likely my TiVo HD will be donated to those less fortunate to not have a TiVo (but a regular cable box that makes popping noises in the sound...

So the TiVo HD had the cablecard. I want to move it to the premiere, they would need to update the host information. Any way I could convince my cable company (Charter) to do this over the phone and not have a tech come out just to read off a host number. It's a complete waste of half my day to wait for that. Or should I just schedule the tech and try to waive a truck roll fee?


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## richsadams

willv28 said:


> Hey everyone. I just got a new Premiere. Likely my TiVo HD will be donated to those less fortunate to not have a TiVo (but a regular cable box that makes popping noises in the sound...
> 
> So the TiVo HD had the cablecard. I want to move it to the premiere, they would need to update the host information. Any way I could convince my cable company (Charter) to do this over the phone and not have a tech come out just to read off a host number. It's a complete waste of half my day to wait for that. Or should I just schedule the tech and try to waive a truck roll fee?


If they'll let you do it over the phone, by all means, try it. You should only have to read back three numbers from the cable card info screen, the CableCARD ID, Host ID and Card S/N. That's generally all the tech would do.

Some cableco's are progressive enough to let customers read numbers, others not so much. The policy can even vary within the same company area-to-area so it can't hurt to ask. Folks here who are on Charter may be able to relate their experiences.

Best of luck and let us know how things go. Oh, and enjoy your new TiVo!


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## willv28

richsadams said:


> If they'll let you do it over the phone, by all means, try it. You should only have to read back three numbers from the cable card info screen, the CableCARD ID, Host ID and Card S/N. That's generally all the tech would do.
> 
> Some cableco's are progressive enough to let customers read numbers, others not so much. The policy can even vary within the same company area-to-area so it can't hurt to ask. Folks here who are on Charter may be able to relate their experiences.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how things go. Oh, and enjoy your new TiVo!


Well, I tried twice, they wouldn't do it. Despite having everything I needed. The first time, I voiced my displeasure at them after they wouldn't even talk to me about it. Wouldn't even discuss waiving the fee. I'm in the IT field and it's not exactly rocket science. I already had removed my old tivo, put the cablecard in the new one so I could get the information, I had the hardware address, host information, serial number, etc for the card all written down and ready to go. My quote was "I understand what they tell you to do. It's not you, but, your company don't give your customers enough credit. It's not that complicated. It's a waste of my time and theirs to do this. I'll call back and see what can be done." She "noted it on my account".

The second lady gave me grief for removing the card. I plan to give the old tivo to my brother in law if they decide they want it. I already removed it from my tivo account. She was going on about "how it breaks it and it has to be a technician to come repair it because they have to 'configure' the tivo". Her and I have different ideas of the what the word "break" means. I tried to explain to her it's not magic, we need the host ID. It has to be paired again. I explained it does not, it doesn't work because it's not PAIRED to the device, I just need to give you the new device information. She insisted that "she has the information right in front of her". She did the ol' send a hit to the card trick, of course it didn't work... If it did I could just give the card to anyone and steal service by just popping it in. At least she was nice enough to "try". So I was nice to her and let them send someone.

Luckily they're sending someone out today, I just couldn't convince her that her information is not current and it's not automatic. All she'd have on file is the hardware address, serial number, the host id is not current. They should be here in the next hour or two and there's no fee. She was nice, but it's just plain silly. It makes me feel silly like when they came to install the cablecard originally the guy got it done but had to have someone help them.

The guys around here have very little knowledge. All they know about a MAC address is that they have to call it in when they install a cable modem. At least the contractor company is terrible, the Charter guys are fine but they're more reserved for big jobs around here because we're not their focus area. The contractors get paid by job and don't care, it's also a revolving door company. When they installed my tuning adapter, I was laughing because they had to read the directions... Plugging in a USB cable is not that difficult. Then they used RG-59 cable to plug it in. When they left, I immediately rewired everything.

My brother in law has poor signal. So when a contractor came to fix it, they found water inside the connector at the tap, they also replaced the whole drop, which is certainly over 200'. They only had RG-6, so instead of scheduling someone to come out with higher grade cable, just to be done and be the one paid for the job, they just ran it and the service is no better. They blame the signal amp I installed (one of theirs too). It's not the amp, digital signals won't work at all unless there is an amp...


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## richsadams

willv28 said:


> Well, I tried twice, they wouldn't do it. <snip>


How frustrating. Unfortunately your experience is more the norm than not. I can understand why the cableco would like someone on site to address something else that might come up. However I've never understood not allowing the end user to at least try to pair the box over the phone. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and a truck roll is in order. If it does work they've saved everyone time and themselves the expense of paying a contractor to visit your home.  Since cable card applications are such a small part of their business the need for support probably just doesn't happen often enough for it to appear on their bean counter's radar or I have to believe they would jump on the opportunity to cut expenses.

Based on posts here and elsewhere the bar for "techs" doesn't seem to be set very high. Again though, it's probably the 80/20 rule80% of jobs being within some basic parameters that even the least trained tech can accomplish. I'd bet the cost for the other 20% is a large chunk of their costs though.

Bottom line is that it's probably the old axiom "That's the way we've always done it" that controls their business model. 

Let us know how things go!


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## willv28

richsadams said:


> How frustrating. Unfortunately your experience is more the norm than not. I can understand why the cableco would like someone on site to address something else that might come up. However I've never understood not allowing the end user to at least try to pair the box over the phone. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and a truck roll is in order. If it does work they've saved everyone time and themselves the expense of paying a contractor to visit your home.  Since cable card applications are such a small part of their business the need for support probably just doesn't happen often enough for it to appear on their bean counter's radar or I have to believe they would jump on the opportunity to cut expenses.
> 
> Based on posts here and elsewhere the bar for "techs" doesn't seem to be set very high. Again though, it's probably the 80/20 rule80% of jobs being within some basic parameters that even the least trained tech can accomplish. I'd bet the cost for the other 20% is a large chunk of their costs though.
> 
> Bottom line is that it's probably the old axiom "That's the way we've always done it" that controls their business model.
> 
> Let us know how things go!


I know, that's why it's annoying. Of course. The guy shows up, takes literally two minutes to call, give the new host id. Then everything worked again... I could have been where I wanted to go today three hours ago if they had just done it when I called.


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## richsadams

willv28 said:


> I know, that's why it's annoying. Of course. The guy shows up, takes literally two minutes to call, give the new host id. Then everything worked again... I could have been where I wanted to go today three hours ago if they had just done it when I called.


Wellat least it's all done and now you can enjoy it!


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## Brighton Line

I know its too late, next time try calling in a problem. Ask to talk to a cablecard expert like you are going to ask them to rehit or rebind the cards. Once you are talking to the tech and not the gatekeeper, read the numbers and see if they would do that.

I tried that with cablevision and once past the gatekeeper and talking to a "cablecard expert" it worked. Though note that it worked once and not the second time


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## hmm52

V7Goose said:


> Just an FYI - the S3 does not always like the Verizon M-cards. At least mine didn't! I have had my S3 and FiOS since long before the M-cards were even available, and it has always worked perfectly with two S-cards....
> 
> The solution was simple - I had the tech come back out the next day and give me back three of the old S-cards, which immediately worked perfectly in the S3 and the Sony HDTV. I have no idea if the tech could have gotten the new M-cards to work with my S3 - I didn't even want him to spend the time trying since the S-cards worked fine.


As a follow up: The M card installed in one of my S3s Friday is still working fine, except that it's paired - the first time with FiOS through the four years with Verizon. As of this afternoon 4 out of my 5 S cards have seen significant changes in their Conditional Access screens. None are now paired but the future is rather obvious at this point, at least for Philadelphia area subscribers.


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## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> As a follow up: The M card installed in one of my S3s Friday is still working fine, except that it's paired - the first time with FiOS through the four years with Verizon. <snip>


Are they copy protecting some or all of your cable channels as well? (They can't protect the broadcast channels). You can check under DVR Diagnostics. CCI Byte 0x00 means unprotected, 0x02 means protectedmeaning that you cannot use MRV or move the recording to your computer etc. Copy protection would generally be the only reason that they'd pair your cable cards to your TiVo.


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## lob

well i must be a sucker for punishment. no more than 6 months (and 3 tech visits) after finally getting my XL working right with cablevision finally. i decided to order fios.

i had heard good things about fios tech wise. also my friend has and xl with an mcard in it 2 towns over - he said it all went fine.

low and behold.. i ordered fios last night. called today to add an mcard to my order.. and got told they only have scards available. they dont do mcards. asked to speak to someone else in technical.. got told same thing by that person. so tomorrow i plan to call my local office to get better news hopefully. i really had high hopes fios would be more on the ball than cable company. and i still cant believe this is such a headache after all this time.


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## richsadams

lob said:


> well i must be a sucker for punishment. no more than 6 months (and 3 tech visits) after finally getting my XL working right with cablevision finally. i decided to order fios.
> 
> i had heard good things about fios tech wise. also my friend has and xl with an mcard in it 2 towns over - he said it all went fine.
> 
> low and behold.. i ordered fios last night. called today to add an mcard to my order.. and got told they only have scards available. they dont do mcards. asked to speak to someone else in technical.. got told same thing by that person. so tomorrow i plan to call my local office to get better news hopefully. i really had high hopes fios would be more on the ball than cable company. and i still cant believe this is such a headache after all this time.


I'd wager dollars to donuts that they actually have M cards&#8230;it's been well over a year or more since FiOS in any area was offering up S cards so odds are you'll be fine.


----------



## lob

richsadams said:


> I'd wager dollars to donuts that they actually have M cardsit's been well over a year or more since FiOS in any area was offering up S cards so odds are you'll be fine.


cheers rich i hope you are right and i'll let you know how i make out.


----------



## lob

lob said:


> cheers rich i hope you are right and i'll let you know how i make out.


quick update.. i called my local fios store and sure enough they assured me they had mcards. they told me they would contact CS themselves and get it added. they called back saying all was set.

so i just checked my order status on the "whats next" fios page. sure enough a "cable card rental" line has appeared. and thats not all... 2 "dvrs" (one hd, one sd) have magically appeared on the order? wow. on hold right now to get them removed. i wonder if the system automatically added them when the cablecards were added? also wondering if it will then furthermore remove the cablecards if both dvrs are removed from the order. pure evil genius.


----------



## richsadams

lob said:


> quick update.. i called my local fios store and sure enough they assured me they had mcards. they told me they would contact CS themselves and get it added. they called back saying all was set.
> 
> so i just checked my order status on the "whats next" fios page. sure enough a "cable card rental" line has appeared. and thats not all... 2 "dvrs" (one hd, one sd) have magically appeared on the order? wow. on hold right now to get them removed. i wonder if the system automatically added them when the cablecards were added? also wondering if it will then furthermore remove the cablecards if both dvrs are removed from the order. pure evil genius.


IIRC they are required to show DVRs or set top boxes on their order forms. The installer will bring them along and cross them off the list when he or she sees that you don't need them.


----------



## icespide

welp I just pulled the trigger on two TiVo Premiere boxes since I found a great deal. I currently have 2 TiVo HD boxes that I'd like to swap out the cableCARDS from those boxes and use those in the premiere boxes. Each box has one M Card.

I'm currently using Comcast, had a nightmare each time I had a cablecard installed. What is everyone's experience with moving a cablecard to a new TiVo, particularly with comcast? I've read that I'll probably have to "pair" the cards to their new TiVo, which should only entail me calling up comcast and reading off the 3 usual numbers, hopefully. What are my chances that this will go smoothly? I'm excited for shiny new TiVo's but worried about comcast...

thanks. long time reader, first time poster. <3 my TiVo


----------



## richsadams

You'll certainly have to pair your cable cards to your new TiVo's. It's a roll of the dice if Comcast will let you call in the cable card info or require a truck roll. Comast has different policies in different areas (I know, it makes no sense but there it is.)

It would be best to call and find out ASAP so if you do have to schedule a visit yo can get in the queue.

Enjoy your new TiVo's!


----------



## drhankz

The FCC changes the *CableCARD rules*, but not dramatically
By Ben Drawbaugh posted Oct 14th 2010 6:43PM
Feature


----------



## mrdazzo7

drhankz said:


> The FCC changes the *CableCARD rules*, but not dramatically
> By Ben Drawbaugh posted Oct 14th 2010 6:43PM
> Feature


THANK GOD. I'm moving this week and I was stressing out about scheduling a truck roll to do these damn cable cards... I just called cablevision (long island) and the lady confirmed that I can pick up the cards then call in to activate them myself...

I didn't have an absolute nightmare originally but it was bad enough to make me not want to do it ever again. Even at the time I thought it was idiotic to have a guy come to put cards in a slot then follow on-screen prompts for two hours. I have to think the installers are thanking the FCC at this point. My new landlords should be happy-- $2 per CC so $4 total vs almost $17 for the dvr box they have in the apartment now. Would be even better if they took that difference off the rent, haha.


----------



## richsadams

mrdazzo7 said:


> I have to think the installers are thanking the FCC at this point.


Oh, I doubt the installers are happy about the FCC's ruling at all...they get paid by the hour and/or job. I'd wager the cable companies aren't happy at the moment because their (antiquated) concept was that sending someone out was "preventative" maintenance. Once they realize that most John Q Public types are more than capable of slipping a cable card in a slot and reading some numbers over the phone...AND their payroll and/or sub-contractor expenses are reduced, I suspect they'll see things in a more positive light.


----------



## E94Allen

My TiVo uses SA MCard... I am wondering if EMM Processed is important because mine is shown as zero does it matters?


----------



## Grumock

E94Allen said:


> My TiVo uses SA MCard... I am wondering if EMM Processed is important because mine is shown as zero does it matters?


yes it does unless you have recently rebooted it. What does the "Status" say toward the top?


----------



## jilter

drhankz said:


> The FCC changes the *CableCARD rules*, but not dramatically
> By Ben Drawbaugh posted Oct 14th 2010 6:43PM
> Feature


So why is Comcast still insisting on coming out to install new cable cards?
Has anyone had any success enforcing this ruling with their local Comcast office?
I believe they purposely are disabling the cards to force a home visit.
The thing is, I can not figure out why.
It must be costing them tons of money to pay installers to do something any able-minded person should be able to do.
I really don't get their mindset.


----------



## drhankz

jilter said:


> So why is Comcast still insisting on coming out to install new cable cards?


Some Comcast Franchises allow end-user installs and some don't.


----------



## Ziggy86

Has anyone here with Fios swapped cable cards from on Tivo to another?

If so do you need FIos to come and pair or like others have said the card works in other devices without having to get Fios to come to your house?

Thanks
Steven


----------



## a68oliver

jilter said:


> So why is Comcast still insisting on coming out to install new cable cards?
> Has anyone had any success enforcing this ruling with their local Comcast office?
> I believe they purposely are disabling the cards to force a home visit.
> The thing is, I can not figure out why.
> It must be costing them tons of money to pay installers to do something any able-minded person should be able to do.
> I really don't get their mindset.


Because they can.

The rule doesn't appear to take effect in Comcast's case until August 1, 2011. So there is no rule to enforce, yet.

I disagree that they are "purposely" disabling cards to force a home visit. I can't believe that they are making any money on home visits. I don't think the installation rate is sufficient to cover their actual costs.


----------



## richsadams

Ziggy86 said:


> Has anyone here with Fios swapped cable cards from on Tivo to another?
> 
> If so do you need FIos to come and pair or like others have said the card works in other devices without having to get Fios to come to your house?
> 
> Thanks
> Steven


Do you have Verizon FiOS? If so, yes, they do not pair cable cards to the box and you can swap them out.


----------



## Ziggy86

I do have FiOS and am keeping my fingers crossed that it is as simple as just putting the card from old Tivo into the new Tivo. If they do not pair them why did it take so long to install the card the first time?


----------



## richsadams

jilter said:


> So why is Comcast still insisting on coming out to install new cable cards?
> Has anyone had any success enforcing this ruling with their local Comcast office?
> I believe they purposely are disabling the cards to force a home visit.
> The thing is, I can not figure out why.
> It must be costing them tons of money to pay installers to do something any able-minded person should be able to do.
> I really don't get their mindset.


The cableco's somewhat antiquated concept is that the end-user doesn't have enough experience (or sense) to insert a cable card, find the proper menus and read three sets of numbers to someone in support services over the phone. Then they also want to take into account that even if someone were to get the cable cards properly set up, something else might need attention. To avoid a lot of "I did that...what do I do now?" calls they just opt to send a tech.

I agree with you and a68oliver, the expense to roll a truck is certainly costing them more than what they charge.

The reason some Comcast offices allow customers to activate cable cards and some don't goes back to whatever the policy was for the original cableco prior to their acquisition by Comcast...so it's very patchwork.

Cable cards are a very small percentage of any cableco's business so however it's handled it's not on their radar. If the offices share information someone in upper management should have realized long ago that those allowing customers to activate cable cards w/o a truck roll are enjoying lower costs. However even if they understand that it's probably (in their eyes) more trouble to change their policies and deal with re-training of their support staff than it's worth.

Once the law changes I'd wager the offices currently requiring a truck roll will continue to do so until someone puts their foot down. I don't think they'll flout the law on purpose, they'll just keep doing business as usual until they're forced to change. Hope I'm wrong on that one though.


----------



## richsadams

Ziggy86 said:


> I do have FiOS and am keeping my fingers crossed that it is as simple as just putting the card from old Tivo into the new Tivo. If they do not pair them why did it take so long to install the card the first time?


But do you have *Verizon* FiOS? There are other companies that offer FiOS that do pair their cable cards (Frontier is one of them). FWIW I have heard that Verizon actually began pairing cable cards in some small pockets somewhere on the East Coast (in preparation to sell off some more of their network), but I can't recall if that turned out to be fact or not.

I have no idea with regard to your second question.


----------



## Ziggy86

I do have Verizon FiOS


----------



## richsadams

Ziggy86 said:


> I do have Verizon FiOS


You shouldn't have any trouble then. One way to see if your box is paired to the cable card is to check to see if any of your cable channels have copy protection. Normal over-the-air channels will never have copy protection, but some cable channels might, particularly premium channels (Showtime, HBO, etc.).

Tune your TiVo to a premium channel then go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > DVR Diagnostics. Scroll down the info for either tuner until you come to "CCI Byte". If it's anything other than 0x00 (0x02 for example) copy protection exists and your cable card would be paired to your TiVo. If they are all 0x00 you should have no trouble moving your cable card(s) from one TiVo to another.


----------



## Ziggy86

Thank you Rich.


----------



## Ziggy86

Just an update.

I took the cable card from my broken Tivo and put it into the new Tivo and everything is working. No need to call FiOS or have them come to the house.


----------



## richsadams

Ziggy86 said:


> Just an update.
> 
> I took the cable card from my broken Tivo and put it into the new Tivo and everything is working. No need to call FiOS or have them come to the house.


Sweet. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## Brighton Line

FIOS doesn't bind cards to devices, if you have Cablevison you would have to call.


----------



## richsadams

Brighton Line said:


> FIOS doesn't bind cards to devices, if you have Cablevison you would have to call.


Per the posts above, the OP is all set. FWIW in most areas _Verizon_ FiOS does not pair their cable cards. However other FiOS providers do.


----------



## myblubu

I've had a Tivo Premiere for a few months and it works fine (have 2 HD's also), but these questions are about the Premiere.

All my Tivos do not have cable cards and I don't subscribe to any premium channels, etc.

Cable company just changed their lineup and converted some of the channels we watch from analog to digital. They sent a letter out explaining the change and stating that either a cable box or cable card was going to be required to receive the digital channels after the switch. They also offered a free standard definition set-top box and remote control for 1 year if you reqested it (they say a $10/mo value). Since I don't want another box in my entertainment center, I called and asked if I could get a cable card for one of my Tivo boxes instead free for a year - they agreed. 

Cable Company: Time Warner Cable (Dayton, OH)

The tech came out today to attemp an install. NOT GOOD. First thing I noticed is after the install, the screen on the Tivo stated Non MCard installed. It turned out that they sent the tech out with a basic cable card and not an MCard. The tech called their tech support and the person at tech support said that the cable card wasn't going to work with the Tivo box, but it was going to require a Tuning Adapter (another box) in addition to the cable card to work.

This doesn't seem right to me - I figured that the Tivo has tuners and if the cable card was installed in my Tivo, then I should be able to watch the digital stations without having to have a separate box connected to the Tivo. Am I missing something here?

Am I going to need another box connected to get digital channels on the Tivo?

The channels I get are basic calbe channels 2-73.

Never dealt with cable cards so figured I'd ask before the tech comes back tomorrow afternoon.

Any input from anyone???


----------



## Grumock

myblubu said:


> I've had a Tivo Premiere for a few months and it works fine (have 2 HD's also), but these questions are about the Premiere.
> 
> All my Tivos do not have cable cards and I don't subscribe to any premium channels, etc.
> 
> Cable company just changed their lineup and converted some of the channels we watch from analog to digital. They sent a letter out explaining the change and stating that either a cable box or cable card was going to be required to receive the digital channels after the switch. They also offered a free standard definition set-top box and remote control for 1 year if you reqested it (they say a $10/mo value). Since I don't want another box in my entertainment center, I called and asked if I could get a cable card for one of my Tivo boxes instead free for a year - they agreed.
> 
> Cable Company: Time Warner Cable (Dayton, OH)
> 
> The tech came out today to attemp an install. NOT GOOD. First thing I noticed is after the install, the screen on the Tivo stated Non MCard installed. It turned out that they sent the tech out with a basic cable card and not an MCard. The tech called their tech support and the person at tech support said that the cable card wasn't going to work with the Tivo box, but it was going to require a Tuning Adapter (another box) in addition to the cable card to work.
> 
> This doesn't seem right to me - I figured that the Tivo has tuners and if the cable card was installed in my Tivo, then I should be able to watch the digital stations without having to have a separate box connected to the Tivo. Am I missing something here?
> 
> Am I going to need another box connected to get digital channels on the Tivo?
> 
> The channels I get are basic calbe channels 2-73.
> 
> Never dealt with cable cards so figured I'd ask before the tech comes back tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> Any input from anyone???


They are correct. If you have SDV (Switched Digital video) in your area then you would indeed need a tuning adapter. The cable card, just like the TIVo is unidirectional, and are not able to let the DNCS (Head End) know that you are on that SDV channel and to start sending it down to you.


----------



## evanborkow

myblubu said:


> I've had a Tivo Premiere for a few months and it works fine (have 2 HD's also), but these questions are about the Premiere.
> 
> All my Tivos do not have cable cards and I don't subscribe to any premium channels, etc.
> 
> Cable company just changed their lineup and converted some of the channels we watch from analog to digital. They sent a letter out explaining the change and stating that either a cable box or cable card was going to be required to receive the digital channels after the switch. They also offered a free standard definition set-top box and remote control for 1 year if you reqested it (they say a $10/mo value). Since I don't want another box in my entertainment center, I called and asked if I could get a cable card for one of my Tivo boxes instead free for a year - they agreed.
> 
> Cable Company: Time Warner Cable (Dayton, OH)
> 
> The tech came out today to attemp an install. NOT GOOD. First thing I noticed is after the install, the screen on the Tivo stated Non MCard installed. It turned out that they sent the tech out with a basic cable card and not an MCard. The tech called their tech support and the person at tech support said that the cable card wasn't going to work with the Tivo box, but it was going to require a Tuning Adapter (another box) in addition to the cable card to work.
> 
> This doesn't seem right to me - I figured that the Tivo has tuners and if the cable card was installed in my Tivo, then I should be able to watch the digital stations without having to have a separate box connected to the Tivo. Am I missing something here?
> 
> Am I going to need another box connected to get digital channels on the Tivo?
> 
> The channels I get are basic calbe channels 2-73.
> 
> Never dealt with cable cards so figured I'd ask before the tech comes back tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> Any input from anyone???


Ask them if any of the 2-73 channels are sdv channels; if not, don't bother with the TA.


----------



## myblubu

Grumock said:


> They are correct. If you have SDV (Switched Digital video) in your area then you would indeed need a tuning adapter. The cable card, just like the TIVo is unidirectional, and are not able to let the DNCS (Head End) know that you are on that SDV channel and to start sending it down to you.


So how is that going to work? Will the Tivo be able to record shows, etc without me having to change channels or somehting on the 'Tuning Adapter'?


----------



## Stuxnet

myblubu said:


> So how is that going to work? Will the Tivo be able to record shows, etc without me having to change channels or somehting on the 'Tuning Adapter'?


IF you need a TA (big IF), you don't need to do anything different. The Premiere handles all the switching.

Do what evanborkow suggested. In fact, I'm not even sure you need a cable card... my Premier pulls in all the Basic and Extended Basic digital channels without one... of course the tuning mapping is a little funky with channels like 37-1, 37-2, but TiVo doesn't see to mind. If your CC is scrambling all the digital content, then the cable card will come in handy...


----------



## a68oliver

Stuxnet said:


> IF you need a TA (big IF), you don't need to do anything different. The Premiere handles all the switching.
> 
> Do what evanborkow suggested. In fact, I'm not even sure you need a cable card... my Premier pulls in all the Basic and Extended Basic digital channels without one... of course the tuning mapping is a little funky with channels like 37-1, 37-2, but TiVo doesn't see to mind. If your CC is scrambling all the digital content, then the cable card will come in handy...


I agree, there is a big IF regarding the need for the TA.

However, even if the cable company provides the channels unencrypted, you may still need the cablecard to download the appropriate channel map. The Tivo may not be able to provide the correct guide data without the channel map. That would defeat the whole purpose of having a Tivo.

It is likely that they have already turned on the digital channels before shutting off the analog ones. You could try a channel scan right now and see what shows up. Before I added a cablecard to my bedroom Tivo, I was able to scan and watch all the old analog channels and some of the new unencrypted digital channels. However, as I said the channel numbers were wrong because I didn't have a cablecard to download the channel map.


----------



## myblubu

evanborkow said:


> Ask them if any of the 2-73 channels are sdv channels; if not, don't bother with the TA.





Stuxnet said:


> IF you need a TA (big IF), you don't need to do anything different. The Premiere handles all the switching.
> 
> Do what evanborkow suggested. In fact, I'm not even sure you need a cable card... my Premier pulls in all the Basic and Extended Basic digital channels without one... of course the tuning mapping is a little funky with channels like 37-1, 37-2, but TiVo doesn't see to mind. If your CC is scrambling all the digital content, then the cable card will come in handy...





a68oliver said:


> I agree, there is a big IF regarding the need for the TA.
> 
> However, even if the cable company provides the channels unencrypted, you may still need the cablecard to download the appropriate channel map. The Tivo may not be able to provide the correct guide data without the channel map. That would defeat the whole purpose of having a Tivo.
> 
> It is likely that they have already turned on the digital channels before shutting off the analog ones. You could try a channel scan right now and see what shows up. Before I added a cablecard to my bedroom Tivo, I was able to scan and watch all the old analog channels and some of the new unencrypted digital channels. However, as I said the channel numbers were wrong because I didn't have a cablecard to download the channel map.


Thanks all you guys! All your information was very helpful. The Tech came out last night and it was his FIRST Tivo cable card install! But he was great - had a great attitude and said we'd figure it out together. I REALLY didn't want the TA and asked about SDV channels, since I don't do anything fancy with premium channels or PPV, etc. He 'thought' I was going to be okay, but we installed the cable card and it didn't work. He called his support desk and they said it ws going to need the TA. So we installed that and everything works now. Although now I also get HD channels I didn't receive before - cool! Thanks for explaining everything.


----------



## myblubu

Grumock said:


> They are correct. If you have SDV (Switched Digital video) in your area then you would indeed need a tuning adapter. The cable card, just like the TIVo is unidirectional, and are not able to let the DNCS (Head End) know that you are on that SDV channel and to start sending it down to you.


Thanks to you too Grumock! You got me on the right path. Thanks for replying!


----------



## fpp777

Looks like I may have to replace the drive on my HD unit. Will I have to have Verizon come out, or will the same 2 cards be ok with the new drive?

Sorry if this has been covered.


----------



## a68oliver

IIRC, the pairing info is stored on the drive. If you can copy the drive you will be ok. However, if you install a fresh drive with a new image, the pairing info will be lost and you will need to re-pair the cards. That MAY require a trip depending on your cable provider policies.

If I am wrong, I am sure someone will chime in and correct me.


----------



## Ziggy86

fpp777 said:


> Looks like I may have to replace the drive on my HD unit. Will I have to have Verizon come out, or will the same 2 cards be ok with the new drive?
> 
> Sorry if this has been covered.


Who is your cable provider. I have Verizon FiOS and did not have to have the cards repaired.


----------



## myblubu

myblubu said:


> Thanks all you guys! All your information was very helpful. The Tech came out last night and it was his FIRST Tivo cable card install! But he was great - had a great attitude and said we'd figure it out together. I REALLY didn't want the TA and asked about SDV channels, since I don't do anything fancy with premium channels or PPV, etc. He 'thought' I was going to be okay, but we installed the cable card and it didn't work. He called his support desk and they said it ws going to need the TA. So we installed that and everything works now. Although now I also get HD channels I didn't receive before - cool! Thanks for explaining everything.


I've just noticed this. When I record some shows on the HD stations that I can now receive (like TBS HD), the recording shows up with a red circle with a slash through it in the recordings list & it won't allow me to transfer it to another Tivo. If I record the show on the regular TBS station, I can transfer it like I always have. Is this normal?


----------



## a68oliver

myblubu said:


> I've just noticed this. When I record some shows on the HD stations that I can now receive (like TBS HD), the recording shows up with a red circle with a slash through it in the recordings list & it won't allow me to transfer it to another Tivo. If I record the show on the regular TBS station, I can transfer it like I always have. Is this normal?


Yes. It is pretty typical. You have been bitten by the CCI Byte fiasco. This means your cable provider has turned on copy protection on those channels. However, if you have local broadcast HD stations, they should not be copy protected (by FCC rule). Not all cable companies copy protect the programs.

Is the regular TBS station still analog? Or is it a SD digital station? If it is analog, you usually won't have any kind of copy protection. Although, I believe it is possible that it can have Macrovision applied to the analog signal. If it is an SD digital station, count yourself lucky that it doesn't also have copy protection applied to it.

My cable company (Comcast) no longer gives me access to the analog stations. The cablecard maps everything to a digital version.


----------



## fpp777

Ziggy86 said:


> Who is your cable provider. I have Verizon FiOS and did not have to have the cards repaired.


I have Verizon FIOS also. I guess I will be ok.


----------



## Grumock

myblubu said:


> Thanks to you too Grumock! You got me on the right path. Thanks for replying!


No Problem


----------



## darnelled

I'm confused after reading the info here. I'm trying to get set up with Comcast cablecards in my Tivo series 3. A tech came out and put in 1 mcard which allows the cable to work, but the dual tuner function does not work- functions as a single tuner Tivo only.

I read the info here and asked for 2 S cards because it appeared to be what I needed. The tech said they haven't carried S cards in 4 years. He wrote down my Tivo's model number and left to "look into it". Can it work as a dual tuner DVR if they use 2 M Cards or must I use 2 S cards?
Thx for any replies.


----------



## Stuxnet

darnelled said:


> I'm confused after reading the info here. I'm trying to get set up with Comcast cablecards in my Tivo series 3. A tech came out and put in 1 mcard which allows the cable to work, but the dual tuner function does not work- functions as a single tuner Tivo only.
> 
> I read the info here and asked for 2 S cards because it appeared to be what I needed. The tech said they haven't carried S cards in 4 years. He wrote down my Tivo's model number and left to "look into it". Can it work as a dual tuner DVR if they use 2 M Cards or must I use 2 S cards?
> Thx for any replies.


Series3 HD DVRs support M-Cards in single-stream mode only, which means that you must install two (2) CableCARDs for the DVR to run in dual-tuner mode. Tell them to bring another card.


----------



## richsadams

Stuxnet said:


> Series3 HD DVRs support M-Cards in single-stream mode only, which means that you must install two (2) CableCARDs for the DVR to run in dual-tuner mode. Tell them to bring another card.


Exactly right. :up:


----------



## darnelled

Does it matter if they are 2 M or S cards?


----------



## richsadams

darnelled said:


> Does it matter if they are 2 M or S cards?


Either two "M" (multi-stream) or two "S" (single stream) cable cards will work fine (or one "S" and one "M" for that matter). Most cable companies stopped carrying "S" cards a year or two ago so you just need to ask them to bring and install one additional "M" card.

They may have to re-pair both cards. Be sure they install and pair the cable card in slot #1 (bottom slot) first and then cable card number two in the second slot (top) next. It has to happen in that order and they cannot be paired at the same time or the pairing will fail.

All of the information you and the cable company installer needs can be found here:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/136


----------



## darnelled

Thanks so much for your help Rich!


----------



## Stuxnet

If they don't buy the 2 card requirement, show them the link in my previous post.

Let us know how this goes for you!


----------



## richsadams

Stuxnet said:


> If they don't buy the 2 card requirement, show them the link in my previous post.
> 
> Let us know how this goes for you!


+1


----------



## ashu

My FIOS installation story is documented in the upgrade FAQ thread

Cliff Notes, I didn't have the time to test my newly imaged drive ni the S3, and sure enough, it wasn't all kosher when the installer showed up (with TWO CableCards just as requested)

Sadly, I had to let him leave me with a (cruddy/average) FIOS DVR, and teh CableCards in his pocket.

Suggestions on how best to talk VZ into sending me the cards for a self install? They mail out/in cable boxes, this is 'easier', IMO!


----------



## richsadams

ashu said:


> My FIOS installation story is documented in the upgrade FAQ thread
> 
> Cliff Notes, I didn't have the time to test my newly imaged drive ni the S3, and sure enough, it wasn't all kosher when the installer showed up (with TWO CableCards just as requested)
> 
> Sadly, I had to let him leave me with a (cruddy/average) FIOS DVR, and teh CableCards in his pocket.
> 
> Suggestions on how best to talk VZ into sending me the cards for a self install? They mail out/in cable boxes, this is 'easier', IMO!


In our neck of the woods VZ was still requiring a truck roll to obtain cable cards. However they began waiving the fee for a truck roll for cable card installations a couple of years ago. They would allow mere humans to drop off one of their DVR's at a VZ office though.

I say "was" because now that Frontier has taken over here we'll probably have to sacrifice a virgin before they'll consider dealing with anything that doesn't belong to them directly and doesn't generate a pile of additional revenue. 

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## randyb359

Fios in Pittsburgh now permits self install as of this week. You pick the card up at a Verizon retail store then have to call in and have them activated. Took 38 min to get them activated. They never told me I could do a self install. I had to ask


----------



## anotherlab

fpp777 said:


> Looks like I may have to replace the drive on my HD unit. Will I have to have Verizon come out, or will the same 2 cards be ok with the new drive?
> 
> Sorry if this has been covered.


With Verizon FiOS, they should be able to do this without a truck roll. My HD blew out it's hard drive last month. I replaced the the drive and basically started with a clean slate. Through Twitter (and at 1:30am), I sent a request to @VerizonSupport to have the card paired back to the TiVo. They asked for a few numbers from the card and they got it working in about 5 minutes.


----------



## ashu

More datapoints ...

- Verizon Baltimore is happy to allow a self-install (but I didn't try it because ...)
- If a truck is at your address or nearby, and has cablecards on the truck, they call the tech and have him stop by to see if you'd like a free install!

A 20 minute visit from a friendly VZ tech around 2 hours after I called and requested 2 cablecards be mailed to me. And my Cablecards work. He used the tech-specific VZ software off the USB key they all carry (inserted into a PC that could see the VZ router) and quickly activated them online, with no phone-calls anywhere.


More data ...
I forgot to do a C&DE on the image I received from someone else, and had to dos o after the pairing was complete and the tech had left.
Post C&DE (with the two Cablecards inserted the WHOLE time) I repeated Guided Setup and they *instantly* were paired/needed no further pairing, and continued to work.

So far, I must say VZ has been impressive, vis a vis Comcast and their CableCard nightmares hereabouts and int he DC area. But it has been 2 years, in fairness - maybe CC's and headends (particularly VZ's) have just gotten more robust.


----------



## richsadams

ashu said:


> More datapoints ...
> 
> - Verizon Baltimore is happy to allow a self-install (but I didn't try it because ...)
> - If a truck is at your address or nearby, and has cablecards on the truck, they call the tech and have him stop by to see if you'd like a free install!
> 
> A 20 minute visit from a friendly VZ tech around 2 hours after I called and requested 2 cablecards be mailed to me. And my Cablecards work. He used the tech-specific VZ software off the USB key they all carry (inserted into a PC that could see the VZ router) and quickly activated them online, with no phone-calls anywhere.
> 
> More data ...
> I forgot to do a C&DE on the image I received from someone else, and had to dos o after the pairing was complete and the tech had left.
> Post C&DE (with the two Cablecards inserted the WHOLE time) I repeated Guided Setup and they *instantly* were paired/needed no further pairing, and continued to work.
> 
> So far, I must say VZ has been impressive, vis a vis Comcast and their CableCard nightmares hereabouts and int he DC area. But it has been 2 years, in fairness - maybe CC's and headends (particularly VZ's) have just gotten more robust.


Good news and thanks for the feedback. The nice (really nice!) thing about VZ is they don't actually pair cable cards to the DVR as does Comcast, etc. You can pull those cards and swap them into another box and they will work fine.

We had VZ FiOS and a Series3 that had two M cards. When we bought a Premiere XL I pulled one of the M cards and slipped it into the PXL and ta-dah, worked perfectly! They brought out another M card and I put it into the Series3 and it was back to normal.

The downside for us is that VZ sold their business in the Northwest to Frontier. They ended up pairing cable cards to the boxes (as well as putting copy protection on all non-broadcast channels  ) so our life of ease came to a sudden and crashing end. They also tried to institute a 50% rate hike and have had nothing but problems with the FiOS offering since. Now it appears Frontier is getting out of the TV/cable business so we have no idea what will happen going forward. If Frontier ever, ever comes to your neck of the woods do everything you can to convince the local PUC and other organizations with approval authority to send them packing.

[/RANT]

In any case, enjoy!

EDIT: I just realized that I responded to a post from early June.  What I said still applies. Apparently there's a new forum spamming program that gets around the 10 post requirement by reposting existing posts (making them look new or something) so the bad guys can get their spam on line. Ugh. This is the second time I've fallen victim to it. I have to pay more attention.


----------



## kirby34

I could've sworn I read the answer to this question when I was looking earlier this year, but now I can't find it to confirm what I thought I had read.

I have a TivoHD with an M-Card that works fine with our current Comcast Digital Preferred package. If we were to add the HD Package, will the card automatically receive the new channel map? Or will I have to maybe just Restart the TiVo or re-do the Guided Setup or have to get a CSR to send some sort of signal from their end?


----------



## husky55

@richsadams,

I actually am going through hell with a Comcast M-Card when replacing my HD in a Tivo HD. Your post about VZ FIOS in the NW makes me wonder about the TV cable card business. Price increase with declining service seems to be the norm here.

I got 2 Tivos, HD and Premiere both with M-card. When I replaced the HD in the Tivo HD ( 3 year old HD ) the M-Card is still activated and paired but the copy protected channels ( HBO, SH etc...) are blocked with a message to call Comcast. So call Comcast we did for the last 3 days. The signals were sent over and over and nothing doing.

So today the tech and truck roll is scheduled. What a nightmare for just changing the HD to a back up HD. To make life even more painful, the WD backup HD did not boot up with the reset from Tivo. The disease of the IntelliPark. So I had to hunt for the WDIdle and fix it.

Who ever said that technology is fun?


----------



## richsadams

kirby34 said:


> I could've sworn I read the answer to this question when I was looking earlier this year, but now I can't find it to confirm what I thought I had read.
> 
> I have a TivoHD with an M-Card that works fine with our current Comcast Digital Preferred package. If we were to add the HD Package, will the card automatically receive the new channel map? Or will I have to maybe just Restart the TiVo or re-do the Guided Setup or have to get a CSR to send some sort of signal from their end?


You _should_ be able to call Comast, have them set up your new package and they _should_ be able to send the signal down the line to your cable card and you _should_ be in business. That's how it _should_ work. That said as you can see from Husky's note above, that's not how it always works.

The biggest issue with Comcast is that it's a hodgepodge of former smaller cable companies they acquired along the way. Some are legacy Comcast from day one, but many (most?) are not. So although the areas are integrated into Comcast's business more often than not they are still functioning just as they were when they were acquired. So in some areas a call is all it takes to change service...in others a truck roll and in others both.

If you're lucky it's a call and the deal is done. Or you may need to read them the three numbers off of your cable card diagnostic screen and all will be well. Or a tech may come to visit.

In any case, once they update your service TiVo will automatically update the channels available to you so you shouldn't have to run setup again.

It may take TiVo up to 24 hours to map all of the channels, however it usually happens right away. Just be sure that before you get off of the phone with the CSR or let the tech leave that all or at least a majority of the channels you want are working. They'll often have you view a select few channels and declare the work done and later you find that other channels aren't working. Pick your favorites and make sure they're working before letting them off of the hook.

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> @richsadams,
> 
> I actually am going through hell with a Comcast M-Card when replacing my HD in a Tivo HD. Your post about VZ FIOS in the NW makes me wonder about the TV cable card business. Price increase with declining service seems to be the norm here.
> 
> I got 2 Tivos, HD and Premiere both with M-card. When I replaced the HD in the Tivo HD ( 3 year old HD ) the M-Card is still activated and paired but the copy protected channels ( HBO, SH etc...) are blocked with a message to call Comcast. So call Comcast we did for the last 3 days. The signals were sent over and over and nothing doing.
> 
> So today the tech and truck roll is scheduled. What a nightmare for just changing the HD to a back up HD. To make life even more painful, the WD backup HD did not boot up with the reset from Tivo. The disease of the IntelliPark. So I had to hunt for the WDIdle and fix it.
> 
> Who ever said that technology is fun?


How frustrating! Hope things go well with the tech. TiVo used to be pretty foreign to the techs, but more and more they seem to have some knowledge about them.

Is your backup drive the original? If so it shouldn't have needed wdidle3.exe run. Sometimes it takes three or four tries before TiVo will boot up with a replacement drive (even the OEM).

I'm so fed up with Frontier. I've threatened to bail repeatedly and each time they've either given us a monthly credit (we're up to $40/mo. now) or free Showtime or whatever. But I'm still working on cutting the cord as those will expire pretty soon. We have the bundle at the moment (TV/broadband/phone) and I'm moving toward broadband only...using our cell phones and a combination of OTA/IP for TV. It's too bad because it's really simple to have cable and such, but the costs just keep going up and the return is less than satisfactory.

Technology can be fun (loving Apple products for instance) but other times it can make you want to scream.

Anyway, best of luck and hopefully you'll be able to post that things went smoothly. :up:


----------



## a68oliver

kirby34 said:


> I could've sworn I read the answer to this question when I was looking earlier this year, but now I can't find it to confirm what I thought I had read.
> 
> I have a TivoHD with an M-Card that works fine with our current Comcast Digital Preferred package. If we were to add the HD Package, will the card automatically receive the new channel map? Or will I have to maybe just Restart the TiVo or re-do the Guided Setup or have to get a CSR to send some sort of signal from their end?


As RichAdams said, this should be a no brainer.

In my market, the channel map includes every digital channel offered, whether I subscribe to it in my package or not. The cablecard decrypts only the ones in my subscribed package. I uncheck channels I don't subscribe to in the channels I receive.

If you upgrade, Comcast should send the appropriate signal to your cablecard to decrypt those new channels. However, they are probably already listed in the channel map. Simply check them in the list to view them. Probably no need to repeat guided setup.


----------



## husky55

To add to what Rich said. We have read the numbers on a M-Card in addition to the info on the screen, i.e Unit ID, SN, MAC, Data, and other infos..for the last 3 days. Signals were sent and all the copy protected HBO , Showtime, etc... were blocked!!!! But not on the Comcast box or the other M-Card. There, HBO and other movies channels showed up fine.

To @richsadams, I had no problem with the original drive, I backed up to another WD 1 TB drive which had the restart/reset problem from inside Tivo. Tested it several times. Hopefully the WDidle will fix it. The WD drive starts fine when unplug and then plug in again.


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> To add to what Rich said. We have read the numbers on a M-Card in addition to the info on the screen, i.e Unit ID, SN, MAC, Data, and other infos..for the last 3 days. Signals were sent and all the copy protected HBO , Showtime, etc... were blocked!!!! But not on the Comcast box or the other M-Card. There, HBO and other movies channels showed up fine.
> 
> To @richsadams, I had no problem with the original drive, I backed up to another WD 1 TB drive which had the restart/reset problem from inside Tivo. Tested it several times. Hopefully the WDidle will fix it. The WD drive starts fine when unplug and then plug in again.


Ah, got it. Maybe you just have a bad cable card...that happens.


----------



## kirby34

Thanks for the responses. It turns out my bro pulled the trigger on adding the HD Package already, but I wasn't seeing the new channels. All I saw was a gray screen and when I checked the Conditional Access, the information for the channels indicate "Auth:MP" instead of the expected "S" or maybe "FWK." I decided to try restarting my TiVo, but that didn't do anything.

I called the 1-800 number and after explaining the situation, the CSR tried "sending a reset signal" to my card (we have 2 TiVo's and each has an M-Card, so I made sure both showed in his system and clarified which was mine). He said that the TV signal should drop out and then come back in about a minute, however, when my signal dropped, it came back in just a couple seconds and did this each of the 3 times he sent the "reset."

He had me unplug my TiVo and tried again after it restarted, but that didn't work either. At that point, he said the issue was with my card. At least I'm still receiving the channels I was before.

Oh, on a whim, after hanging up, I did unplug it again, but also removed and re-inserted the card before plugging it in again. Obviously, that didn't do anything either. I'm wondering if it really is the card or if the CSR wasn't sending the proper signal to my card. To be honest, I'm rather dreading picking up a replacement card and going through the pairing and authorization process again considering how much fun we all know that can be. Hehe.

I may just roll the dice and call again tomorrow to see if I get a CSR that does something different.

BTW, I did mention we have another TiVo with an M-Card, but that one isn't a problem because, uh, I guess it was never authorized correctly (even though it's paired) so it actually has always displayed the channels associated with the HD package even when we didn't have it. Ahem.


----------



## richsadams

kirby34 said:


> Thanks for the responses. It turns out my bro pulled the trigger on adding the HD Package already, but I wasn't seeing the new channels. All I saw was a gray screen and when I checked the Conditional Access, the information for the channels indicate "Auth:MP" instead of the expected "S" or maybe "FWK." I decided to try restarting my TiVo, but that didn't do anything.
> 
> I called the 1-800 number and after explaining the situation, the CSR tried "sending a reset signal" to my card (we have 2 TiVo's and each has an M-Card, so I made sure both showed in his system and clarified which was mine). He said that the TV signal should drop out and then come back in about a minute, however, when my signal dropped, it came back in just a couple seconds and did this each of the 3 times he sent the "reset."
> 
> He had me unplug my TiVo and tried again after it restarted, but that didn't work either. At that point, he said the issue was with my card. At least I'm still receiving the channels I was before.
> 
> Oh, on a whim, after hanging up, I did unplug it again, but also removed and re-inserted the card before plugging it in again. Obviously, that didn't do anything either. I'm wondering if it really is the card or if the CSR wasn't sending the proper signal to my card. To be honest, I'm rather dreading picking up a replacement card and going through the pairing and authorization process again considering how much fun we all know that can be. Hehe.
> 
> I may just roll the dice and call again tomorrow to see if I get a CSR that does something different.
> 
> BTW, I did mention we have another TiVo with an M-Card, but that one isn't a problem because, uh, I guess it was never authorized correctly (even though it's paired) so it actually has always displayed the channels associated with the HD package even when we didn't have it. Ahem.


Curious. Cable cards can go bad...stop receiving signals properly, etc. So a new card may do the trick.

If you call again tomorrow, to avoid any confusion, I'd unplug your other TiVo (the one thats working) so that they can't see the card in that one at all.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## husky55

richsadams said:


> Ah, got it. Maybe you just have a bad cable card...that happens.


My Comcast tech came. He looked at the gray screen where HBO should have been with the message to call Comcast to authorize this channel and a bunch of info, i.e. host ID, MAC, Cable Card SN and ID, Data etc... He called some Technical Group and voila HBO is back and all the other premium channels. When I asked what exactly happened, he said there was 1 digit error in the Data info. What caused that error, he did not know but he said that nobody has access to it except the Technical Group (in Connecitcut, everything requires a truck roll, we are not allowed to pick up anything, i.e set top box, cable card ... Comcast Connecticut is the old SNET). He said that the Customer Service reps we spoke to cannot call the Technical Group either and cannot change or correct the error.

When asked about the cable card possibly be faulty, he said that happens but in my case it's not so since I received all other channels.

Anyway all is well now in Connecticut.


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## richsadams

husky55 said:


> My Comcast tech came. He looked at the gray screen where HBO should have been with the message to call Comcast to authorize this channel and a bunch of info, i.e. host ID, MAC, Cable Card SN and ID, Data etc... He called some Technical Group and voila HBO is back and all the other premium channels. When I asked what exactly happened, he said there was 1 digit error in the Data info. What caused that error, he did not know but he said that nobody has access to it except the Technical Group (in Connecitcut, everything requires a truck roll, we are not allowed to pick up anything, i.e set top box, cable card ... Comcast Connecticut is the old SNET). He said that the Customer Service reps we spoke to cannot call the Technical Group either and cannot change or correct the error.
> 
> When asked about the cable card possibly be faulty, he said that happens but in my case it's not so since I received all other channels.
> 
> Anyway all is well now in Connecticut.


Awesome! Seems like they should rethink their policies. Continual and unresolved calls to customer service cost them money. Wonder how much they could save if they allowed them to at least observe the issue and get the next level of support involved instead of dealing with repeated conversations and truck rolls? 

In any case...great news! Enjoy!


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## kirby34

I have good news, too. I picked up a replacement M-card and after getting it paired and activated, I am now getting the add-on HD Package channels I should. They now show up as "Auth:S" in the Conditional Access screen. 

I don't know if this is related to the issue I had with the previous card, but should the cable card FW info ever have --.-- as one of the numbers? I noticed before I removed the old card that the middle set of the 3 sets of numbers was --.--. With the new card installed, there are 3 sets of full numbers and the outer numbers are the same as the outer numbers for the old card. Just struck me as weird.

I had to go to 2 service centers because the first one didn't have any M-cards and as expected, when I called to get the new card paired and activated, I had a CSR that seemed to have no previous experience with the process. I started firing off the S/N, Host ID, and Data info and he initially tried to tell me he didn't need any of them, put me on hold 3 times and then asked for the numbers again. After that, bing-bang-zoom, everything was set.


----------



## richsadams

kirby34 said:


> I have good news, too. I picked up a replacement M-card and after getting it paired and activated, I am now getting the add-on HD Package channels I should. They now show up as "Auth:S" in the Conditional Access screen.
> 
> I don't know if this is related to the issue I had with the previous card, but should the cable card FW info ever have --.-- as one of the numbers? I noticed before I removed the old card that the middle set of the 3 sets of numbers was --.--. With the new card installed, there are 3 sets of full numbers and the outer numbers are the same as the outer numbers for the old card. Just struck me as weird.
> 
> I had to go to 2 service centers because the first one didn't have any M-cards and as expected, when I called to get the new card paired and activated, I had a CSR that seemed to have no previous experience with the process. I started firing off the S/N, Host ID, and Data info and he initially tried to tell me he didn't need any of them, put me on hold 3 times and then asked for the numbers again. After that, bing-bang-zoom, everything was set.


Sah-weeet! Not sure about the CC numbers...I've only seen fully sets of numbers on ours.

Enjoy!


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## dobbie1

Just wanted to comment on information required for installing. I just recently had 2 cable card installed in my Series 3 (not the HD). The cards were Scientific Atlanta and were "M" cards. These were a self-install and would have been a breeze, except for not being able to find the "data value". We spent over an hour, called Tivo Support and finally decided that the Scientific Atlanta cards did not have a "data value." I am receiving all high def channels as well as the premium movie channels. So not sure if it is just Scientific Atlanta cards or if it is because they were "M" cards working in a single stream mode, but whatever there was no "data value."


----------



## husky55

dobbie1 said:


> Just wanted to comment on information required for installing. I just recently had 2 cable card installed in my Series 3 (not the HD). The cards were Scientific Atlanta and were "M" cards. These were a self-install and would have been a breeze, except for not being able to find the "data value". We spent over an hour, called Tivo Support and finally decided that the Scientific Atlanta cards did not have a "data value." I am receiving all high def channels as well as the premium movie channels. So not sure if it is just Scientific Atlanta cards or if it is because they were "M" cards working in a single stream mode, but whatever there was no "data value."


I have 2 Motorola M-Card. Data value was what caused the problem for me. If your M-Card do not have data value then it's one less thing to go wrong!!!


----------



## El Gabito

edit: moved to comcast thread - didn't see it at first


----------



## jaj2276

dobbie1 said:


> Just wanted to comment on information required for installing. I just recently had 2 cable card installed in my Series 3 (not the HD). The cards were Scientific Atlanta and were "M" cards. These were a self-install and would have been a breeze, except for not being able to find the "data value". We spent over an hour, called Tivo Support and finally decided that the Scientific Atlanta cards did not have a "data value." I am receiving all high def channels as well as the premium movie channels. So not sure if it is just Scientific Atlanta cards or if it is because they were "M" cards working in a single stream mode, but whatever there was no "data value."


Just wanted to follow up on this post. I received two Scientific Atlanta cablecards to install for Comcast in Charleston, SC and the directions that comcast gave me and what you actually needed (and where you got it from) were two different things.

The instructions from Comcast say that from the Cablecard Diag screen, one will need to get three pieces of information:

Host Id
Data Id
Cablecard serial number

For these SA Cablecards, all the screens are labeled "Cisco CableCARD xxxx". The Diag screen had none of the information that is/was needed. There is a screen called "Cisco CableCARD / Host ID Screen". On this screen, you will find the Host Id and the CableCARD ID. This CableCARD ID takes the place of the Data ID.

Finally on each cablecard (the card itself), there are two values. One is the MAC address. The other is the serial number. Oddly neither of these two are labeled as such. I know one is the MAC address because in one of the CableCARD screens, it lists that same value as the MAC address. The other one is the serial number (and it's not a number but rather a series of characters starting with PQ) which I know because the Comcast technician stated as such.

In any case, I'm happy to report that after worrying that I only had one piece of the three pieces of information that the instructions told me I needed (the Host ID), the rep was knowledgeable enough to know that once I told him I had SA cards and NOT Motorola cards, the CableCARD ID was the same as the Data ID and the serial number could be found on the back of the card. Took me 10 minutes and everything works!


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## tvmaster2

I had to replace the drive in a Tivo HD, with a Cox Orange County cable card "M".
All my channels are back, including all of my extra-package channels. However, HBO and a few Starz channels haven't come back.
Rebooted the Tivo and tuning adapter once, called Cox and had a guy send a hit (who admitted to knowing very little about cable cards).
The machine was down for repairs for two weeks.
Is it likely that the few missing channels will return in a day or so, or do I need "tier two" tech support?


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## Nosmo Rex

Anyone having any luck getting an M-Card from Frontier FIOS? My Series 3 died this week, so I picked up a Premiere. My S3 had two S-Cards, and of course the Premeire has only one M-Card slot. Frontier customer service flatly denied any availability of M-Cards at all. As a matter of fact, they acted like they had no idea what an M-Card was. I would really hate to go back to Comcast, but I think this is a deal breaker.


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## jrtroo

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights

You have the right to a MCard. Quote this.


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## Nosmo Rex

jrtroo said:


> http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights
> 
> You have the right to a MCard. Quote this.


Awesome. I didn't realize MCard were covered by this. Thanks very much.


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## Nosmo Rex

So - I just got a call from "Cynthia" at Frontier. She says my MCard is on order, and should arrive on Monday. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, I suppose. 
I was very close to calling Comcast. :shudder:


----------



## HeatherA

Just bought a TiVo Premiere 4 and am having a heck of a time getting WOW to activate my TiVo HD's cablecard in the new box. I've been on the phone over an hour and the kid that's helping me seems to have no clue. Says they have a new system... argh... shouldn't this be easier by now?


----------



## PooperScooper

A quick note on FIOS cablecard install: 

Verizon tech brought MCard but his paperwork did not include the 6 digit activation code that he needed to enter into his Blackberry app along with the cable card info that the TivoHD displayed. He had a heck of a time getting to a real person even as a tech! (He told me there's a big push to do everything with the Blackberry and if the techs have to access support people too much his manager gets "beat up" some.) Anyway, once the support tech got involved the pairing got done successfully and things were fine after that. I guess the moral of the story is to make sure the installer has the 6 digit (all numbers) activation code when he comes. It's a pain when you have to wait about 45 minutes for the (redo of the) guided setup to complete and download the initial channel data only to find out then you can't get the premium channels you ordered (and after about a 4-5 hour install for triple-play).

larry


----------



## Ready4TiVo

A question I hope is appropriate here [edited since original post for better readability & typos]:

Question first, then read down if anyone cares for the backstory - is it worth upgrading from a Series3 HD to a Premier XL (2 tuners, 150 HD hours)? I am asking here because of the questions raised in re to not receiving HBO. I ordered a new Premiere XL box anyway, but now I am wondering if I should just return it before I even open it and get involved...

I currently have a five-year-old Series3 HD TiVo box with two S-cards; I upgraded it last year to a 1TB drive. Except for occasional grinding noises from the new drive - which sounds like it's getting updates (?) and/or recording - I have not otherwise had any problems. I prefer the readout of the show titles being recorded and the clock as the box is not in a bedroom. (Sidebar: when I asked the TiVo rep why they discarded the readout design, he claimed I was the first person to ever complain.)

I recently upgraded my FiOS package to include HBO and Showtime - but I don't receive HBO, and was told by Verizon I simply won't get it on the older boxes. Now I am seeing the latter issue can be resolved relatively easily.

Again, I ordered a new box anyway. Should I have bothered?

Oy. I don't have time to deal with tech idiots at Verizon...

Thanks.


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## mattack

That makes absolutely no sense. There is no difference between Series 3 and Premiere regarding tuners in this regard. (The *4* Tuner premieres ONLY do Cable, not OTA, and don't do analog at all.. but that is moot for you.)

You will only need ONE cable card however.

It sounds to me like there's some OTHER reason you're not properly receiving HBO. Not a strong enough signal? They don't do SDV, I don't think.. (That would require another separate box, usually provided free, that also hooks to the Tivo to do tuning on demand)


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## Ready4TiVo

mattack said:


> That makes absolutely no sense. There is no difference between Series 3 and Premiere regarding tuners in this regard. (The *4* Tuner premieres ONLY do Cable, not OTA, and don't do analog at all.. but that is moot for you.)
> 
> You will only need ONE cable card however.
> 
> It sounds to me like there's some OTHER reason you're not properly receiving HBO. Not a strong enough signal? They don't do SDV, I don't think.. (That would require another separate box, usually provided free, that also hooks to the Tivo to do tuning on demand)


Reasoning they gave was that an FCC block preventing pirating the signal was not yet lifted on the older boxes.

Whatever, there seems to be a solution - correct?

Are you suggesting as well that I trade in my two S-cards for one M-card?

Or - Screw it, keep the new box?


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## Arcady

I don't think they can properly pair the S cards, so that's why HBO is broken. If you replace them with a single new M card, you will get it paired and then HBO will work. You can't use a single M card in a Series 3 (with OLED display on the front) so you might as well switch to the new box anyway. I guess you could get two M cards if you really wanted to keep the old box.


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## Ready4TiVo

Arcady said:


> I don't think they can properly pair the S cards, so that's why HBO is broken. If you replace them with a single new M card, you will get it paired and then HBO will work. You can't use a single M card in a Series 3 (with OLED display on the front) so you might as well switch to the new box anyway. I guess you could get two M cards if you really wanted to keep the old box.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll figure it out from here.


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## ramblinche81

From the lead message of the sticky, it says cablecards cannot be swapped to different machines....but they can, or at least I could. ???
========================================================================================================
2) Your CableCARD is not properly paired.

In order for your cards to function properly, they must be associated or "paired" with your account. This is why the information described in question 5 is necessary. If a card is properly paired, it will work in only the host (or in the case of a Tivo, a specific CableCARD slot) and cannot be moved to another device (or slot) without having to be paired again. 
========================================================================================================

I have no idea why it went this smooth...my wife's Premiere died a few days ago and I removed the cablecard and moved it over to the recently bought HD XL and everything is working normal. SD channels, HD channels. I have not even started TiVo service. I am just using system as my cable box.

No pairing, no reconfiguring, no phone calls or tech support help needed.

Besides being pleasantly surprised. is that an oddity or normal with the latest versions of cablecards and TiVo software ?


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## slowbiscuit

That totally depends on your cableCo - some cards can be moved without a problem, some will lose access to premium channels, some will lose access to entire tiers. Re-pairing is generally not a big deal nowadays if you do lose access.


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## SuperGonz

Frontier FiOS Ft Wayne...the story I could go on & on about.

A VERY long & derisive email to the Midwest region & Indiana region VP's got the ball
rolling after 5 weeks if ineptitude. On Friday, I had to wait 2.5 weeks for a tech to show up.

Now, he's coming tomorrow.

The local guy said they've only done a handful of cablecards in the 6+ years he's been with Frontier. I find that highly questionable. In fact, he thought he needed multiple cards...I'm afraid to allow this level of incompetance in my house, near my electronics. 

Thanks for the FCC link (above)...that'll really freak thse people out.


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## dlfl

SuperGonz said:


> Frontier FiOS Ft Wayne...the story I could go on & on about.
> 
> A VERY long & derisive email to the Midwest region & Indiana region VP's got the ball
> rolling after 5 weeks if ineptitude. On Friday, I had to wait 2.5 weeks for a tech to show up.
> 
> Now, he's coming tomorrow.
> 
> The local guy said they've only done a handful of cablecards in the 6+ years he's been with Frontier. I find that highly questionable. In fact, he thought he needed multiple cards...I'm afraid to allow this level of incompetance in my house, near my electronics.
> 
> Thanks for the FCC link (above)...that'll really freak thse people out.


Nothing unusual about this experience at all -- unfortunately. CableCARD users (mostly TiVo users) are around 1%, or less, of CATV subscribers so the "local guy" probably is telling you the truth. If you get more than a disinterested grunt (e.g., a form letter) out of the FCC let us know.


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## SuperGonz

It was an odd experience.

He came, he saw, he did his thing & left.

No headaches & only twenty minutes.

There is hope (well, nah, he's probably the exception)


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## drhankz

smsm1980 said:


> "What buzz words should I use when speaking to my [Comcast] cable rep when I'm trying to explain to them what they need to do to properly pair/validate my cablecard?"
> 
> Still trying to figure this out, after 5 installers and 15 calls to Comcast. "Initialize" and "cold initiate" haven't done the trick yet.


*TYPING* is the KEY WORD

They need to Type the Numbers Correctly


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## mattack

Was smsm1980's message deleted?

Anyway, you need to also be calling the CABLE CARD #. I called the main # (the one the cable card tells you to call!), and they told me about a different #:
1-877-405-2298
for cablecard setup


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## BarnB

So, Im moving. Actually already moved. Still using Comcast but starting a new service. Do i need a new Cable Card? The second tech just left without being able to pair the new card with the tivo (PremierXL). Hes saying i have to call tivo an have them reset the card pairing or some crap. Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## a68oliver

BarnB said:


> So, Im moving. Actually already moved. Still using Comcast but starting a new service. Do i need a new Cable Card? The second tech just left without being able to pair the new card with the tivo (PremierXL). Hes saying i have to call tivo an have them reset the card pairing or some crap. Any help is greatly appreciated.


Did you get your cablecard problem solved? Cablecards are provisioned by Comcast for the particular headend. If you move to a new headend, your cablecard has to be replaced, or at least reprovisioned.

I have no idea what the tech is talking about Tivo reseting the pairing. I have heard stories about cards that had been previously paired with a Tivo not being able to be paired with a new Tivo without first having something special done. That may be what he is talking about, but that is a Comcast issue and not a Tivo issue.


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## BarnB

No i haven't. Mainly because i haven't had time to reschedule a tech to come out for the 3rd time. I'm going to return the old card along with some other equipment to Comcast an see if they will give me one to try the setup on my own. They probably wont go for that though an will require a tech to come out. 
Can I use a cable box with the Premier XL or is the cable card my only option? Thanks for the reply and I will post when something, anything happens.


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## dianebrat

BarnB said:


> No i haven't. Mainly because i haven't had time to reschedule a tech to come out for the 3rd time. I'm going to return the old card along with some other equipment to Comcast an see if they will give me one to try the setup on my own. They probably wont go for that though an will require a tech to come out.
> Can I use a cable box with the Premier XL or is the cable card my only option? Thanks for the reply and I will post when something, anything happens.


Comcast supports self-install, there's no need for a truck roll on a new CableCARD install.

And no, you can not use a set top box with an S3 or higher HD Tivo


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## daverita

I have the TiVo HD with a cable card. I am having trouble with my Tivo drive and want to replace it myself. Does anyone know if a replaced hard drive will require a repairing and re-validating by the cable company? I have Time Warner Cable in New York City.

Thanks


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## mattack

AFAIK, if you copy the image from your existing hard drive, it will retain pairing.

But really, all it means is a somewhat infuriating call to the cable company to re-pair it.


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## BarnB

Ok So....New card is paired but is not validated. Called back this AM because im only getting basic channels. Rep said she resent signal to validate but it still showing a "?" in the VAL field.
I reran the guided setup after the call but still no digital/prem channels.
2 options i was given if card doesnot validate are to switch out the card or have another tech come back.


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## dlfl

BarnB said:


> Ok So....New card is paired but is not validated. Called back this AM because im only getting basic channels. Rep said she resent signal to validate but it still showing a "?" in the VAL field.
> I reran the guided setup after the call but still no digital/prem channels.
> 2 options i was given if card doesnot validate are to switch out the card or have another tech come back.


Based on numerous past experiences reported in this forum, the fix will turn out to be something they can do without a tech coming to your home, or replacing a CableCARD. Isn't it fascinating that supposedly their STB's and DVR's use the same CableCARD as a TiVo, but they don't have these problems.


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## BarnB

so ill try another card i guess


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## BarnB

Success!!! New card worked an no tech appt involved. Thanks to all who inquired. Its been a month but its back.


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## dlfl

nick578 said:


> When installing a CableCARD in a supported device, refer to the setup ... FAQs. If I have a CableCARD, do I still need my digital set-top box to get Digital TV?


No. However, if your cable system uses SDV you will need a TA (tuning adapter, another kind of STB) to get all your channels. The trend is toward more systems using SDV because they can pack more channels in that way.


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## mattack

The Cablecard makes the device *INTO* a "digital set top box".


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## ustavio

I have a TiVoHD with lifetime that I've been using without a cable card for transfers from my Roamio Pro. I would like to stick in a Fios CC and use it to view cable and record again. Back in August it was a pain to pair the Fios CC I pulled out of the TiVoHD with the Roamio and found that it needed a specific card with a specific number to properly handle Cinemax/HBO and h.264 channels like MGM and Sony. I understand that all this was fixed in an update and that ANY Fios CC will work now with the Roamio.

Does the same apply to the TiVoHD? Will any Fios CC pair and handle the encryption issue? Or do I need the same specific CC part number? I am also told that no matter what card I use, the TiVoHD will not deliver h.264 channels. Is this correct? Are there any options other than going back to TWC or buying a new TiVo? Does the Premiere handle h.264? Can I make a case to transfer my lifetime to a newer model?


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