# Tiger Direct has APC 550VA UPS - 8-Outlet for $35



## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

w/free shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-550VA-U...ng-Technology-Data-L-/351537229699?rmvSB=true


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Tiger Direct going bye bye, good luck returning it if theres no charge or defective.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Money is always tight but spend more and get a UPS with *automatic voltage regulation* (AVR or "buck & boost" as it used to be called) so you're actually protecting your stuff.

What really drives electronics crazy are short subtle voltage drops and spikes that don't trigger a standby UPS without AVR to switch over to battery and that surge-spike protectors don't deal with at all.

An online true sine wave UPS handles these problems easily, and almost always include voltage regulation, but are more expensive than standby UPS products with AVR.


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Tiger Direct going bye bye, good luck returning it if theres no charge or defective.


Very interesting. Where did you hear that?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

As I'm reading this post my APC 1500VA UPS tripped due to a 150V surge. The Cyberpower 1000VA UPS that my computer uses never noticed. Everything I use is on a UPS. But, having any UPS is better than not having a UPS. The downside is things don't seem to fail. I have a lot of stuff looking for a new home.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

A J Ricaud said:


> Very interesting. Where did you hear that?


http://www.maximumpc.com/tigerdirect-clearing-out-inventory-with-sitewide-sale-future-uncertain/


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> But, having any UPS is better than not having a UPS.


Not quite so... having a UPS that gives one a false sense of security and does not provide adequate protection or the protection the user thought it would provide is not better than having no UPS at all. Having a UPS that provides the security the user paid for and expected is far better.

I've had many clients over the years that lost hardware, and more import their data, because they went cheap on a UPS or didn't really understand the different features and capabilities of UPS units and thought they were protected.

Like way back in the days of dial up when people used sure-spike protectors and then toasted their CPUs because a lightning spike ran down the telephone line, hit the modem, then toasted their computer over the serial cable. UPS units were a real hard sell back then but not to those who had lost hardware and data.


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> http://www.maximumpc.com/tigerdirect-clearing-out-inventory-with-sitewide-sale-future-uncertain/


WOW! Thanks a lot. I subscribe to MaximumPC but rarely go to the website. Guess I will have to look more often.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Also, look here for their return policy.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/sectors/help/return.asp



> *No Returns or Exchanges - ALL SALES FINAL*
> 
> Beginning December 24, 2015, all sales are final. Orders placed on or after
> 12/24/2015 12:00 AM ET are not eligible for return, refund or exchange and returns will not be accepted. The manufacturers warranty for covered products will still apply. Information about a product manufacturers warranty and/or support contact information can be found within the item's detail page on our website or you can click here to visit our Help Center.


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## geko29 (Dec 13, 2000)

just4tivo said:


> An online true sine wave UPS handles these problems easily, and almost always include voltage regulation, but are more expensive than standby UPS products with AVR.


Since nearly all of these are $500+ and also cost more to operate than other types of UPSes (because there are two inverters running 100% of the time, so you're effectively always "on battery"), they're almost never used in a home environment.

The sweet spot for home use are the ones that used to be referred to as "Line Interactive", which switch much faster than the simpler standby units. They're not instantaneous like the online ones, but are close enough that most electronics don't notice. They often include features like AVR and cost anywhere between $70-200 depending on capacity/features.


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## bryan4980 (Dec 2, 2011)

foghorn2 said:


> Tiger Direct going bye bye, good luck returning it if theres no charge or defective.


Not quite, they are being bought up. I deal with Tiger quite a bit at work can't say I am happy about the change but they will still be there just under a different name. At least the person I have been working with for over 10 years is staying and remaining our contact otherwise I would have been majorly pissed.


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

geko29 said:


> Since nearly all of these are $500+ and also cost more to operate than other types of UPSes (because there are two inverters running 100% of the time, so you're effectively always "on battery"), they're almost never used in a home environment.
> 
> The sweet spot for home use are the ones that used to be referred to as "Line Interactive", which switch much faster than the simpler standby units. They're not instantaneous like the online ones, but are close enough that most electronics don't notice. They often include features like AVR and cost anywhere between $70-200 depending on capacity/features.


Not $500+ but here's a decent unit *with* AVR:

http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=Homepage_SS-_-P5_42-102-134-_-01042016


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## Old Hickory (Jan 13, 2011)

just4tivo said:


> Not quite so... having a UPS that gives one a false sense of security and does not provide adequate protection or the protection the user thought it would provide is not better than having no UPS at all. Having a UPS that provides the security the user paid for and expected is far better.
> 
> I've had many clients over the years that lost hardware, and more import their data, because they went cheap on a UPS or didn't really understand the different features and capabilities of UPS units and thought they were protected.
> 
> Like way back in the days of dial up when people used sure-spike protectors and then toasted their CPUs because a lightning spike ran down the telephone line, hit the modem, then toasted their computer over the serial cable. UPS units were a real hard sell back then but not to those who had lost hardware and data.


I'd like to hear what you think is adequate for "Having a UPS that provides the security the user paid for and expected is far better."

I think I've protected my flat screen TV and Tivo but have I?


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## geko29 (Dec 13, 2000)

dmurphy said:


> Not $500+ but here's a decent unit *with* AVR:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=Homepage_SS-_-P5_42-102-134-_-01042016


I meant all the online UPSes are $500+, sorry that wasn't clearer. I've bought Line-interactive units with AVR for $100-150 many times.

BTW, your link currently goes to an ATX power supply.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Old Hickory said:


> I'd like to hear what you think is adequate for "Having a UPS that provides the security the user paid for and expected is far better."
> 
> I think I've protected my flat screen TV and Tivo but have I?


IMO... a quality *battery backup* UPS with adequate capacity and AVR is a safe bet in general. I like the Cyberpower CST135XLU @ Costco for $99.95 a lot. Great bang for the buck.

For a bit more a similar brand name *line interactive* UPS with adequate capacity and AVR is a slight increase in security.

I feel that more $$$ for an *online* sine wave UPS to protect consumer electronics is an unnecessary expense. For very sophisticated electronics yes but for common home stuff I wouldn't.

I chose four of the Cyberpower CST135XLU @ Costco for $99.95 and they are protecting four Mac computers, HP laser printer (surge-spike side only) DSL modem and router and switch, a couple plasma TVs, a couple Roamio OTA units, DVD and DVD-R units, home theater, and other stuff with never a blip.

I also have my Whitfield pellet stove on and old APC online UPS.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

Anyone who uses an APC UPS should put it on a scope and look what the output REALLY looks like. 

It's pretty ugly and not very clean.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Anyone who uses an APC UPS should put it on a scope and look what the output REALLY looks like.
> 
> It's pretty ugly and not very clean.


It's stable enough to work well with my whole house home generator. No issues when running on generator power. It's just an ordinary APC, not one of the special ones that are designed for dirty generator power.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Anyone who uses an APC UPS should put it on a scope and look what the output REALLY looks like.
> 
> It's pretty ugly and not very clean.


Most contemporary consumer electronics are designed to be remarkably tolerant of the _sine wave *like*_ output of a quality battery backup UPS with AVR. AVR is the key at the low price point of UPS's. Most cheap UPS units do not have AVR.

More sophisticated electronics generally prefer a purer sine wave output and if you have those sophisticated electronics you should know that they do.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

jim1971 said:


> It's stable enough to work well with my whole house home generator. No issues when running on generator power. It's just an ordinary APC, not one of the special ones that are designed for dirty generator power.


Interesting. I know someone with an APC unit that will not operate with their Generac.

Regardless, again, the APC AC output is pretty nasty looking - and as the AC filter in a TiVo is not anything to write home about, it can easily put noise in the picture and/or audio that you have not even noticed.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

just4tivo said:


> Most contemporary consumer electronics are designed to be remarkably tolerant of the _sine wave *like*_ output of a quality battery backup UPS with AVR. AVR is the key at the low price point of UPS's. Most cheap UPS units do not have AVR.
> 
> More sophisticated electronics generally prefer a purer sine wave output and if you have those sophisticated electronics you should know that they do.


Even the most expensive APC UPS system look very nasty - and there are not enough filters on a TiVo (or most other consumer Audio Video Equipment) to clean it up.

Can operate - and operate with max potential are two different things.

Also, it cannot be good for the internal components of any electronic device.

Bottom line, I have put some very large Power Filters AFTER my APC units prior to the Audio Video Equipment. I did it for Audio - did not expect it to do anything for video - and was shocked by how much better my picture looked afterwards (even with or without a UPS - as I have direct drops from Circuit Box to the Audio Video Equipment with nothing else on the circuit).

Considering I was not expecting a change - and I got one - no imagination of end result.

Have demonstrated it to various people without telling them which is which - and never has 1 person failed to identify the better picture.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Even the most expensive APC UPS system look very nasty - and there are not enough filters on a TiVo (or most other consumer Audio Video Equipment) to clean it up.
> 
> Can operate - and operate with max potential are two different things.
> 
> Also, it cannot be good for the internal components of any electronic device.


Most common UPS units have traditionally put out a "stepped sine wave" which would be better described as a stepped square wave. That certainly is nasty, but most equipment power supplies can deal with it because they're converting the incoming AC to low-voltage filtered DC anyway. Are you saying that even the "pure sine wave output" from APC's Smart-UPS line still looks "very nasty"? I might quibble with the use of the word "pure", but I think any power supply that can't run reliably from a Smart-UPS is surely under-designed.



SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Bottom line, I have put some very large Power Filters AFTER my APC units prior to the Audio Video Equipment. I did it for Audio - did not expect it to do anything for video - and was shocked by how much better my picture looked afterwards (even with or without a UPS - as I have direct drops from Circuit Box to the Audio Video Equipment with nothing else on the circuit).


Common warnings against daisy-chaining UPS units and power strips may be overstated, but most surge suppressors I've seen work by absorbing the energy from voltage spikes, and feeding a surge-suppressor power strip from an inexpensive UPS could cause problems when the unit switches to battery power.

The crude "stepped sine wave" output from common UPS units might contain voltage spikes high enough for a surge suppressor to trim, causing it to absorb energy from every wave, which could probably damage the surge suppressor and might even build up enough heat to cause a fire. I always use cheap power strips with no protection on the output side of a UPS. No protection should be needed there anyway, at least if you're running properly designed equipment from a UPS with real sine-wave output.


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