# Tivo: 9.1 what the hell were you thinking?



## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

I have to say I have three tivo boxes, an S1, S2 and an S3. I bought the S3 at its inflated early adopter price so I could transfer my lifetime service from my S1 and pay even more to do it. And I was happy to do it at the time.

9.1 is the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. My channels stop working, season passes randomly changed channels to channel numbers not selected or not even in the channel list, I have to reset my box regularly since 9.1 to get both cable cards working, and various other little annoying bugs that I could probably live with, like the software forgetting where it was when it reenters the todo list after deleting an item and reentering the SP list, or having to reset the S3 after repeating guided setup to get any channels at all. And of course, I never had these problems with the previous release.

What the hell were you thinking? Are you trying to piss off loyal tivo owners/supporters or what?

You need to work on your QA. And you need to figure out what you broke and get it fixed immediately.

This really sucks, and frankly, I'm pissed off. And I never post here whining about this or that. If you lose a customer like me, you might as well just give it up.

So, how about a fix, an explanation and an apology? (in that order).

-David


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

Icarus said:


> I have to say I have three tivo boxes, an S1, S2 and an S3. I bought the S3 at its inflated early adopter price so I could transfer my lifetime service from my S1 and pay even more to do it. And I was happy to do it at the time.
> 
> 9.1 is the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. My channels stop working, season passes randomly changed channels to channel numbers not selected or not even in the channel list, I have to reset my box regularly since 9.1 to get both cable cards working, and various other little annoying bugs that I could probably live with, like the software forgetting where it was when it reenters the todo list after deleting an item and reentering the SP list. And of course, I never had these problems with the previous release.
> 
> ...


Outside of some cable card issues, which I can't say are 9.1's fault for sure, it seems to work fine for me. One of the CC issues was a TW problem. Last night I had a problem with sound on one recording, on only one channel for some strange reason, and by switching back and forth from card to card I got it to work.

Sorry you're having such problems.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

It's not just me .. read all the threads related to 9.1 and you'll see that there are plenty of people that lose one or both cable card channels randomly and therefore lose recordings and have to reset to get the channels back.

I already had to pay to download 2 shows I missed because they were digital channels that weren't working on that cable card when the shows were "recorded" and they weren't available anywhere else. Last weeks Survivor and CSI. Fortunately, they were available on amazon unbox.

-David


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## Zaph32 (May 22, 2000)

Correct me if I am wrong, but...

To get it so quickly didn't you have to sign up for the priority download?

Early adopting software (of any kind of any platform) means you're going to experience the early bugs and issues. (Yes, even after beta.)


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## skweaz (Feb 19, 2004)

ldudek said:


> Outside of some cable card issues, which I can't say are 9.1's fault for sure, it seems to work fine for me. One of the CC issues was a TW problem. Last night I had a problem with sound on one recording, on only one channel for some strange reason, and by switching back and forth from card to card I got it to work.
> 
> Sorry you're having such problems.


That might be a fine solution for someone who watches live tv, but it certainly doesn't do anything to help scheduled recordings that failed when the system can't tune.



Zaph32 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but...
> 
> To get it so quickly didn't you have to sign up for the priority download?
> 
> Early adopting software (of any kind of any platform) means you're going to experience the early bugs and issues. (Yes, even after beta.)


You are wrong. I did not sign up for the priority list, in fact I was one of the "lucky" ones who got it before the list was even posted.

9.1 has definitely caused problems for some people but not all.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Zaph32 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but...
> 
> To get it so quickly didn't you have to sign up for the priority download?
> 
> Early adopting software (of any kind of any platform) means you're going to experience the early bugs and issues. (Yes, even after beta.)


I did not sign up for the 9.1 priority download. Thanks for trying to blame me for the problems I'm having.

Even if somebody did sign up for the priority download, the software has been released. Why would you try to imply it's their fault if they are having problems with it? It doesn't take that long to get software these days when most of us access the service through the internet and not via a daily phone call.

-David


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

Zaph32 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but...
> To get it so quickly didn't you have to sign up for the priority download?
> Early adopting software (of any kind of any platform) means you're going to experience the early bugs and issues. (Yes, even after beta.)


 Your wrong....... it was downloaded to my S3 by Tivo just a few days after it was released.

For my TivoHD I did sign up for the priority d/l after not getting it like the S3 had several days earlier.

Luckily my S3 and TivoHD are working fine so far.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

Zaph32 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but...
> 
> To get it so quickly didn't you have to sign up for the priority download?
> 
> Early adopting software (of any kind of any platform) means you're going to experience the early bugs and issues. (Yes, even after beta.)


I have to side with the other fellers here, if this was the case it should have been released as a beta/you may find bugs program and not a general release.

However, I wonder how much our hacks have to do with the problems? It would be nice to know the number of stock Tivo's having problems compared to ones that have been hacked in any way.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

Soapm said:


> However, I wonder how much our hacks have to do with the problems? It would be nice to know the number of stock Tivo's having problems compared to ones that have been hacked in any way.


I have a clean S3. I also did not sign up for priorities... First my pixelation/audio drops, now CC2 going blank, soon enough SDV... what else?


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## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

I have two S3's, both with internal upgraded plus external. I had severe pixelation on both units prior to 9.1. Pixelation is now gone...Motorola S Cards in both.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Except for the skip/replay image-freeze annoyance, I haven't noticed any problems with my Series 2 and 3 TiVos with the 9.1 version.

Anything I should check to see if I too have problems that will affect recordings?


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## Zaph32 (May 22, 2000)

I was under the impression that 9.1 was only going to priority folks who requested it at this time. Sorry!

I guess that changes the tone from "why does this early-release software I asked for not work?" to "hey, why did my Tivo suddenly break?"

I get that.


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## Corran Horn (Feb 12, 2002)

I've only seen a menu slowdown, myself.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

I've got a stock S2 and a stock S3. Both have 9.1. I haven't had any problems on either device except for a few of the "pixelation" skips of maybe 2-3 seconds on some shows. But I think those happened before only instead of skipping I just had 2-3 second of pixilation. And that happened on my old cable co provided box too, so I am pretty sure it's a signal strength or other interference issue.

Not saying there aren't issues, but I am saying they aren't universal.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

I too had the issue where one of the cablecards became broken until a reboot. Could be the cable provider, but just noticed others were having the issue as well. 

That's a pretty major bug.


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## SAH2 (Apr 1, 2007)

I have both an S3 and an HD and both are having the same problems. I also got 9.1 very early without requesting it.

The most annoying are the problems with repeated manual recordings. Since we do not have cable cards and use the QAM channels we can no longer get repeated recordings to work. And if one is set, the Tivo will freeze if you accidentally select it to make any changes.

This makes the Tivo worse than even a VCr at this point as each recording needs to be set for each show. I would gladly accept a rollback to 8.3 where everything worked fine for me.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Zaph32 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but...
> 
> To get it so quickly didn't you have to sign up for the priority download?
> 
> Early adopting software (of any kind of any platform) means you're going to experience the early bugs and issues. (Yes, even after beta.)


Consider yourself corrected. I am traditionally toward the back of the list and I never sign up for priority and I have 9.1 on everything for several days.

Indeed, I'm pretty savvy and I know of no way to avoid getting the download for more than about 12-13 days without losing use of the TiVoes, and then I'd be giving up MRV & TTG & Unbox & TiVoCast in the interim.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

SAH2 said:


> I have both an S3 and an HD and both are having the same problems. I also got 9.1 very early without requesting it.
> 
> The most annoying are the problems with repeated manual recordings. Since we do not have cable cards and use the QAM channels we can no longer get repeated recordings to work. And if one is set, the Tivo will freeze if you accidentally select it to make any changes.
> 
> This makes the Tivo worse than even a VCr at this point as each recording needs to be set for each show. I would gladly accept a rollback to 8.3 where everything worked fine for me.


I've seen that mentioned elsewhere, and it sounds like a very bad bug. I hope you have called TiVo and reported this, so they know many people have this problem .


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Soapm said:


> However, I wonder how much our hacks have to do with the problems? It would be nice to know the number of stock Tivo's having problems compared to ones that have been hacked in any way.


Virtually zip.

Anyone who is not having these problems is just not noticing them or happens to have a configuration that doesn't have some of the bugs. If a tree falls in the forest and you don't hear it, the tree still fell.


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## DrWho453 (Jul 16, 2005)

Well I got my update 4 days ago and did not sign up for it. Both my series 3 and my series 2 seem to be working without any noticeable problems. 

On my series 3 before the update, once in a blue moon Tivo would try to record channel 255 but the video would come in from 256 with no audio. I have to change to another channel and then back to 255 to fix it and once its fixed, it seems to work for a long period of time before it happens again. Last time I think it was a month between the two times that it happened. I am waiting to see if it happens again now that I have 9.1. 

On my series 2, I do have one issue that I am not sure an updated 9.1 would fix it or if it is something that needs to be updated in the other software that I am running but I have that program that allows you to access Amazon, NetFlix and Blockbuster video through tivo running on my desktop system. Before 9.1, the program worked without any problems except for the Netflix issue which is being worked on. This morning, I tried to get a preview of Axis of Evil and it downloaded ok to the PC but when I tried to access the preview through tivo, the system rebooted. I have not tried to access any other video on the pc. The photos and music work without a problem.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Virtually zip.
> 
> Anyone who is not having these problems is just not noticing them or happens to have a configuration that doesn't have some of the bugs. If a tree falls in the forest and you don't hear it, the tree still fell.


I just found a problem with my CableCARDs... I just hadn't noticed it before. Will write about it in another thread.

But yeah, looks like this update is a huge, freaking mess. EDIT: well, at least a big mess - but then again, what update isn't (with maybe 8.3 as an exception)?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I just found a problem with my CableCARDs... I just hadn't noticed it before. Will write about it in another thread.
> 
> But yeah, looks like this update is a huge, freaking mess. EDIT: well, at least a big mess - but then again, what update isn't (with maybe 8.3 as an exception)?


Fighting through my senility, I think 8.3 was a real clean up update. Not that everything got cleaned up, but that was the focus and things that had been messed up for a while got better. But putting out heavily flawed updates and clean up updates a few months apart ain't what we pay our sub fees for.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Can someone explain to me why, if their is a problem with 9.1. That some people have problems and others dont?

All of these "Bugs" that people say they have, I don't have, & aren't doing that for me.

So if their is a problem with the software, why some people experiance the problem and others don't?

Sorry... just doesnt make logical sense to me.

TGC


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

SAH2 said:


> The most annoying are the problems with repeated manual recordings. Since we do not have cable cards and use the QAM channels we can no longer get repeated recordings to work. And if one is set, the Tivo will freeze if you accidentally select it to make any changes.


 Can you elaborate? I already get that you can't edit existing manual recording setups (only affects non CableCard units), but what's wrong with repeat manual recordings? Can you elaborate or post a link to the problem? (I have a couple of repeat manual recordings and don't have an issue, but I also have CableCards so maybe it only affects non CableCard units?)


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## soccercoach61 (Sep 15, 2007)

HDTiVo said:


> Virtually zip.
> 
> Anyone who is not having these problems is just not noticing them or happens to have a configuration that doesn't have some of the bugs. If a tree falls in the forest and you don't hear it, the tree still fell.


Ah... but does it make a noise? 

I too have the 9.1 update (priority list). The menus have slowed down considerably from 8.3. The CC2 on my Series 3 has dropped once or twice, too, but Comcast didn't actually get it working until AFTER 9.1 was downloaded and installed last Thursday. I have not had the CC2 problem with my TiVoHD. A restart seems to have cleared up the problem with the S3, so it may have just been a residual problem from cleaning up the initial pairing of the cards? Who knows...

I have had some pixellation with a couple of HD channels with the S3 and the HD, even though both TiVos are reporting the signal strength at 100. I still have two SA8300HD's (for PPV and OD), and I checked them and there were no problems with pixellation, only on the TiVos.

-Chuck


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## soccercoach61 (Sep 15, 2007)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Can someone explain to me why, if their is a problem with 9.1. That some people have problems and others dont?
> 
> All of these "Bugs" that people say they have, I don't have, & aren't doing that for me.
> 
> ...


It could be anything from interaction between the component-level firmware and the 9.1 software to the fact that some folks don't use the functions that are affected. (Although pixellation and losing a Cable Card are some pretty big problems.)


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## dubluv (Mar 3, 2006)

i've had to pull cc2 from my tivoHD to reintialize it, and then it would only receive some channels, no premium HD channels. it seems like both cc's are working now, and both tuners show programming on all channels. however, this required 3 restarts, and redoing guided setup. i sure hope this gets resolved soon, as i'm expecting my cableco to be here to fix this. if they decide its the tivo, i'll have the added annoyance of having to pay for the service call.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I will simply add that there are a small number of minor bugs that one would think would be EASILY picked up in Beta testing. For example, the problem of deleting a To-Do recording then returns you to page 1, not your previous location. Same for WL. The little freeze-frame on an 8-second rewind. And on & on. How could these NOT be noticed during beta?


BTW, I am not disagreeing with those of you who have had significant problems with this release. I am fortunate that I have not, but as a long time pixellationist, I share your pain. I just wanted to throw in my .02 worth on how the beta process seems to be failing here.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I just wanted to throw in my .02 worth on how the beta process seems to be failing here.


Yeah, I don't understand how hard this could be... get a few users, assign different areas to them and let them go through the UI in various ways. I can't see how they would NOT find all the stuff we find in this forum pretty quickly.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, I don't understand how hard this could be... get a few users, assign different areas to them and let them go through the UI in various ways. I can't see how they would NOT find all the stuff we find in this forum pretty quickly.


Many of the bugs we're seeing should never have gotten as far as the beta stage IMHO.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I will simply add that there are a small number of minor bugs that one would think would be EASILY picked up in Beta testing. For example, the problem of deleting a To-Do recording then returns you to page 1, not your previous location. Same for WL. The little freeze-frame on an 8-second rewind. And on & on. How could these NOT be noticed during beta?
> 
> BTW, I am not disagreeing with those of you who have had significant problems with this release. I am fortunate that I have not, but as a long time pixellationist, I share your pain. I just wanted to throw in my .02 worth on how the beta process seems to be failing here.


I don't know what all figures into Tivo's decision-making process. That said, I've participated in beta programs from a number of different software companies (Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, etc), and not once did the company wait until all known bugs were fixed to release the software.

It is a judgment call. Clearly, Tivo thought the release of 9.1 would do more good than harm. Some may agree with that, others may not. It's also possible Tivo released the software to get more feedback on known issues to better prioritize their efforts for a future release. They might have 50 bugs but only have time to fix 35 before their next release target.

If you see an issue that bothers you, I would be sure to call Tivo and let them know. Let them know what bothers you most and what you feel they _must_ fix. That will give them more data on where they need to devote their efforts for the next release.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

astrohip said:


> I will simply add that there are a small number of minor bugs that one would think would be EASILY picked up in Beta testing. For example, the problem of deleting a To-Do recording then returns you to page 1, not your previous location. Same for WL. The little freeze-frame on an 8-second rewind. And on & on. How could these NOT be noticed during beta?
> 
> BTW, I am not disagreeing with those of you who have had significant problems with this release. I am fortunate that I have not, but as a long time pixellationist, I share your pain. I just wanted to throw in my .02 worth on how the beta process seems to be failing here.


It is entirely possible these are "known bugs" and considered acceptable trade-offs if they were, for instance, found late in testing or during the beta. What appears to be a simple bug may take quite a bit of effort and additional code to fix.

Such things happen in the software industry. Yes, it sucks for the end user, but the alternative is to delay the release, retest large portions, extend the beta period, and potentially introduce additional bugs.

No (non-trivial) software is bug free


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> I don't know what all figures into Tivo's decision-making process. That said, I've participated in beta programs from a number of different software companies (Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, etc), and never once did the company wait until all bugs were fixed to release the software.


Obviously, you can't get ALL bugs out, and nobody expects a completely bug-free product. But a bug that partly disables the primary function of the product is NOT something they should allow (which is what the CableCARD bug currently does).

There must be something in this release that they desperately wanted out in order to let a bug like that slip, intentionally or not. Not sure what though, I can't think of anything, unless the MRV/TTG code is in there and they needed to meet a deadline for that. Still not an acceptable trade-off, IMO.


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## SAH2 (Apr 1, 2007)

moyekj said:


> Can you elaborate? I already get that you can't edit existing manual recording setups (only affects non CableCard units), but what's wrong with repeat manual recordings? Can you elaborate or post a link to the problem? (I have a couple of repeat manual recordings and don't have an issue, but I also have CableCards so maybe it only affects non CableCard units?)


The problem appears to be only with the unencrypted QAM channels on my units, so if you have Cable Cards, you will not see the problem.

The problem is that you cannot view, edit or change any season pass for a manually set recording. The minute you "select" it, the TIVO freezes, forcing a reboot.

QUOTE=Saturn]It is entirely possible these are "known bugs" and considered acceptable trade-offs if they were, for instance, found late in testing or during the beta. What appears to be a simple bug may take quite a bit of effort and additional code to fix.

Such things happen in the software industry. Yes, it sucks for the end user, but the alternative is to delay the release, retest large portions, extend the beta period, and potentially introduce additional bugs.

No (non-trivial) software is bug free[/QUOTE]

Acceptable trade-offs to whom? Possible for those who have cable cards, but for those of us who are not using them I disagree. The problem I am having renders a major feature useless. I would not have bought a first or second unit if I knew I would not be able to do repeated manual recordings. To me, it is taking away a feature that was part of the description of the item I purchased.

I think an earlier poster who talked about the lack of testing is right. When I called to report my issues, I got the impression that they did not do much, if any, testing for anything with the QAM channels.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Obviously, you can't get ALL bugs out, and nobody expects a completely bug-free product. But a bug that partly disables the primary function of the product is NOT something they should allow (which is what the CableCARD bug currently does).


+1


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Can someone explain to me why, if their is a problem with 9.1. That some people have problems and others dont?
> 
> All of these "Bugs" that people say they have, I don't have, & aren't doing that for me.
> 
> ...


Some things that others see a bugs you may never do so its not a bug for you, I have V9.1 on all my TiVos and the only bug that all HD units have is trying to change a manual recording of a clear QAM channel in the TO-Do list, the rest is working fine for me.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> There must be something in this release that they desperately wanted out in order to let a bug like that slip, intentionally or not. Not sure what though, I can't think of anything, unless the MRV/TTG code is in there and they needed to meet a deadline for that. Still not an acceptable trade-off, IMO.


I think part of the pattern for TiVo has become that getting something out is more important than getting it right up front. Thus it is more likely that things will come out with more bugs initially, just so TiVo can say it came out which serves other TiVo perceived purposes.

I've pulled back on adopting new things - like the TiVo HD until that update a month later. Unfortunately I don't know how to hide from the software updates longer term.

The people that got the very early roll out did not notice these bugs and report them on the forum. The bug reporting here really started once the larger rollout was underway. So there was no heads up, for whatever that would have been worth.


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## psyton (Dec 28, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> ...


While I'll agree with you on most of your comments, will you also agree that there is a significant difference between consumer electronics and PC software? Perhaps the QA and release teams need to think of Tivo a little more like CE device rather than a linux PC and raise the bar a little?

That said, I only take issue with


bkdtv said:
 

> It's also possible Tivo released the software to get more feedback on known issues to better prioritize their efforts for a future release.


If you were paying a maintenance agreement fee on some mission critical software pkg (analogous to the Tivo service fee), would you accept being a "feedback tester" without your prior approval and acceptance to do so?


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Can someone explain to me why, if their is a problem with 9.1. That some people have problems and others dont?
> 
> All of these "Bugs" that people say they have, I don't have, & aren't doing that for me.
> 
> ...


I can't confirm this as yet or not (I'm trying to in another thead however). But it is looking to me that the 2nd CC issue may be Scientific Atlanta specific. I've asked in the other thread I started if any Moto folks have seen a similar issue...we'll see...

Do you have SA or Moto CCs?

Barry


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I do not have CableCARDs. I see no problems with 9.1. Works fine for me.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

psyton said:


> While I'll agree with you on most of your comments, will you also agree that there is a significant difference between consumer electronics and PC software? Perhaps the QA and release teams need to think of Tivo a little more like CE device rather than a linux PC and raise the bar a little?
> 
> That said, I only take issue withIf you were paying a maintenance agreement fee on some mission critical software pkg (analogous to the Tivo service fee), would you accept being a "feedback tester" without your prior approval and acceptance to do so?


Right on, baby. The thing is the bar used to be higher. Observing the changes is what interests me for discussion purposes.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

There's a difference between annoyance bugs and bugs that prevent the product from working as it's supposed to.

Tivo forgetting where you are in the SP or ToDo lists are annoyance bugs. They don't prevent the product from working.

Loosing channels and requiring manual action to fix it and the problem that QAM people are experiencing with not being able to select certain recording items prevent that product from working.

Also, just because everybody doesn't have the problem doesn't mean it isn't a bug. Many of us (including me) reporting problems with loss of channels or loss of CC2 are having that for the first time with 9.1 and didn't have the problem prior to 9.1. Consider yourself lucky if you aren't having these problems. There are many different cable companies, and several different variety of cable cards and apparently many different ways they can be configured and used by the cable companies, and Tivo has to be tested to make sure it works with all of them.

-David


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

soccercoach61 said:


> It could be anything from interaction between the component-level firmware and the 9.1 software to the fact that some folks don't use the functions that are affected. (Although pixellation and losing a Cable Card are some pretty big problems.)


Maybe so...

However...

I don't have any pixellation issues /CC issues.

I have checked my FF, 30s Skip, Replay. No issues.

I don't have any issues with manual recording. I don't normally do manual recordings but I checked the so called manual recording bug, & it doesn't do that with my S3.

Sorry... still doesn't make logical sense to me.

The ONLY thing I can think of that makes any sense to me... is if people are using eSATA drives or have upgraded the internal drive. OR... the difference in CABLE CARDS is changing things? OR.... there are actuall manufacturing differences in the S3.

TGC


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Also, please, if you're unfortunate enough to have the problems that prevent the product from working properly (as opposed to the annoyance bugs with 9.1), please call tivo technical support to get these issues logged and filed with them.

-David


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

lessd said:


> Some things that others see a bugs you may never do so its not a bug for you, I have V9.1 on all my TiVos and the only bug that all HD units have is trying to change a manual recording of a clear QAM channel in the TO-Do list, the rest is working fine for me.


Maybe so... but I have "Tested" all the so called "Bugs" on my unit, & the "Bugs" don't perform as described on my unit.

Alot of people of complained about proper beta testing, checking & stuff.

IMHO.... It just doesn't make logical sense. If something is wrong in HW/SW with any type of product. Then it will do it for 100% of the time, if the units are 100% identical.

So what is different in *MY* TiVo S3 that *DOESN"T* have these bugs, that *OTHERS* are having the bugs?

The only reason I ask this question... is since I am working just fine, it scares me to make any changes in my system for fear soemthing might stop working correctly.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

bguzik said:


> I can't confirm this as yet or not (I'm trying to in another thead however). But it is looking to me that the 2nd CC issue may be Scientific Atlanta specific. I've asked in the other thread I started if any Moto folks have seen a similar issue...we'll see...
> 
> Do you have SA or Moto CCs?
> 
> Barry


I have Moto CC's.... In BOTH my TiVo S3 & TiVo HD, & in BOTH my HD TV's

Total of 6 CC's in my household... All Moto.

No pixelation issues of any kind on any units. (Except during very bad rainstorms/Tornado weather & even then not everytime).

I am not haveing any "Bugs" in the new software that I can confirm.

TGC


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Maybe so... but I have "Tested" all the so called "Bugs" on my unit, & the "Bugs" don't perform as described on my unit.
> 
> Alot of people of complained about proper beta testing, checking & stuff.
> 
> ...


It is most often just a certain sequence of event that leads to bugs. If you do A then B then C then D then E then you'll get bug at step F. Those are tough to find, if there are multiple ways to get to each step.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Icarus said:


> Also, please, if you're unfortunate enough to have the problems that prevent the product from working properly (as opposed to the annoyance bugs with 9.1), please call tivo technical support to get these issues logged and filed with them.
> 
> -David


Tell me please - I pay a premium for TiVo service. Why on earth should I have to put up with annoyances?


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> IMHO.... It just doesn't make logical sense. If something is wrong in HW/SW with any type of product. Then it will do it for 100% of the time, if the units are 100% identical.
> 
> So what is different in *MY* TiVo S3 that *DOESN"T* have these bugs, that *OTHERS* are having the bugs?


The configuration, type and use of the cable cards by the cable company.

The QAM issue affects all QAM people as far as I know.

The freeze frame etc doesn't affect everybody (I don't seem to have it) but that doesn't mean it isn't a bug. I don't have the slow menus problem, but that doesn't mean it isn't a bug. It just means that everybody isn't having the problem.

In past releases with significant bugs, I haven't always had the problems that people reported. I think that made me lucky, and didn't invalidate the fact that there were problems with the software. Many S3 early adopters had significant problems tuning into all their channels in a reliable manner.

I don't think anybody that's an actual hw or sw engineer that builds or tests products that are sold in many different configurations would ever make such a statement. Proper testing is very difficult. It's much easier to test a product that's only configured and used exactly one or just a few ways. The S3 raised the bar for the number of configurations that have to be supported, probably because the cable card iinterface is not very mature and cable companies can configure their cable cards in many different ways. If there was only one brand and model of cable cards and every cable company used them in exactly the same way, then it might be easier to test the software.

-David


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Icarus said:


> Also, please, if you're unfortunate enough to have the problems that prevent the product from working properly (as opposed to the annoyance bugs with 9.1), please call tivo technical support to get these issues logged and filed with them.
> 
> -David


Taking my own advice, I called, and after getting somebody live the first time, got disconnected after she went to check on the problem.

Now when I call back and go through the phone tree (1, 2, phone-number#), it rings once and then eventually disconnects.

Don't give up. Call again later if you can't get through.

-David


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Tell me please - I pay a premium for TiVo service. Why on earth should I have to put up with annoyances?


I didn't mean to imply that you should. By all means, call and report them.

I meant that it's imperative that if you're having the other type of problem that prevents the product from working properly when unattended or the QAM issue, that you call to get the issue logged and raised with Tivo.

At least where I work, a problem seen by one or two customers is not necessarily as high a priority to fix as a problem seen by 100s or 1000s of customers, especially if there's no reasonable workaround. A reset or manual channel change is not a reasonable workaround if you miss a recording because you aren't present. On the other hand, the annoyance bugs (while I agree they should be fixed) are probably not as high on the priority list as bugs that prevent the product from working properly. When they prioritize their bug list, the annoyance bugs should take a back seat to the other type of problems.

That's all I meant.

-David


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Icarus said:


> I didn't mean to imply that you should. By all means, call and report them.
> ......


No thanks! I've done that several times before with results similar to those in your post above.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

bguzik said:


> Do you have SA or Moto CCs?
> 
> Barry


Mine are SA.

Specifically, an S3, with 2 SA cablecards, no antenna input, tivo usb wireless G adaptor, and a Seagate 750G esata drive and no other customizations.

-David


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

HDTiVo said:


> Virtually zip.
> 
> Anyone who is not having these problems is just not noticing them or happens to have a configuration that doesn't have some of the bugs. If a tree falls in the forest and you don't hear it, the tree still fell.


I'm not having them. I did have some troubles requiring reboots when I got the update, but not since. Actually, two nagging problems (loss of video in FF and RW on HD content and an intermittent total loss of all audio on incoming material but not the menus) disappeared when 9.1 was downloaded. I've had one GSOD since the download, but I was having those before, and it looks like the GSODs are related to the e-SATA cable. I have a 250G stock TiVo with a Seagate 750G Barracuda SATA drive in an MX-1 housing and a Weaknees 1TB TiVo with a Hitachi 1TB SATA drive in an MX-1 housing.

I have 4 SA S-Cards on Time Warner Cable.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

Icarus said:


> The configuration, type and use of the cable cards by the cable company.
> 
> The QAM issue affects all QAM people as far as I know.
> 
> ...


That said, the fact that some or most of the THDs are not experiencing any problems does not mean there is a bug.

My S2 and THD have no problems. I am using a single M-Card from SA and Comcast. I have yet to see a problem of any kind with the THD.


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

Icarus said:


> Mine are SA.
> 
> Specifically, an S3, with 2 SA cablecards, no antenna input, tivo usb wireless G adaptor, and a Seagate 750G esata drive and no other customizations.
> 
> -David


And you are having the 2nd CC issue?

I've turned off suggestions, and that seems to have mitigated the frequency of the issue occurring. It has not happened again for me since last evening.

Leads me to believe it has something to do with recording...

For the record, I have 2 SA cards + eSATA 500GB drive...that is the extent of any mods...

Barry


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Virtually zip.
> 
> Anyone who is not having these problems is just not noticing them or happens to have a configuration that doesn't have some of the bugs. If a tree falls in the forest and you don't hear it, the tree still fell.


While I would probably have the manual recording bug, the only other issue that I've seen is the change in behavior of 30 second skip.

My pixelization is better now, in fact. I still drop audio sometimes, but that's being caused by something else (my TV or HDMI switch), as it happens on my PS3, also.

While you seem to think that an entire forest was felled, that's not the case for everyone. I'm quite happy with the new software, thanks.

Of course, with your attitude in the past month or two, it's no wonder that you would think that everybody's TiVo blew up and some of us are just too stupid to notice.


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## colin1497 (Nov 20, 2006)

I'm satisfied with the update so far. The only obvious changes I have noticed are:

1) slight change in speed going to some of the menus (slower, but not mind numbingly slow, just noticeably slower)
2) change in behavior with interrupted datastreams on HD stations, mostly locals. IT seems to freeze then speed through the bad datastream. I can't describe exactly how this is different from previous behavior, but it does look a bit different. This happens in short bursts occasionally, again, mostly on local HD's. Watchability of the programming is just as good/bad as it was before.

Base config, 2 moto CC's.


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## psyton (Dec 28, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> IMHO.... It just doesn't make logical sense. If something is wrong in HW/SW with any type of product. Then it will do it for 100% of the time, if the units are 100% identical.


The flaw in your logic is you assume 100% identical only applies to Tivo's out-of-the-box hardware and software. You forget about all the other variants, such as the database contents, third party hardware, user interaction, etc. No two Tivos are 100% identical once they're in use - the application is data and event driven, and as such, no two boxes will operate the same 100% of the time.

Its is a little more complicated than your simple static embedded alarm clock application.


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## Carsten (Feb 5, 2007)

I know alot of people are having trouble. But I think it appears that there are alot more problems for everyone. But you cannot forget it appears this way because those are the only people that *****.

For me, I have 1 S3 and 1 HD and both are working fine with the 9.1.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

bguzik said:


> And you are having the 2nd CC issue?
> 
> I've turned off suggestions, and that seems to have mitigated the frequency of the issue occurring. It has not happened again for me since last evening.
> 
> ...


Barry,

Yes, I am having the 2nd CC issue. Specifically, I've lost channels, all digitals and HDs, until I reset. I don't really know which CC exhibits the problem.

I will try turning off suggestions, but I have a wishlist for HD/movies at the bottom of my SP list. So I'm pretty much recording most of the time.

Thinking about it, it definitely has something to do with recording, because it changes channels to start a recording and that's when the problem happens. 

The other thing that's 100% repeatable for me is that if you repeat guided setup, when it's done you will have no channels on either CC until you manually reset. I don't know if it's related or not to the other channel loss problems, but I consider this one to be more of an annoyance bug since you have to be present to do a guided setup and doing a reset after it's done is a reasonable workaround until they find and fix the problem. I did guided setup 2x since 9.1 came down because of other issues with 9.1, and both times I had no channels on either CC when it was done.

It will be interesting to see if the channel loss problem is really limited to those of use with SA CCs, or if anybody is reporting the problem with other CCs as well.

-David


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Carsten said:


> I know alot of people are having trouble. But I think it appears that there are alot more problems for everyone. But you cannot forget it appears this way because those are the only people that *****.
> 
> For me, I have 1 S3 and 1 HD and both are working fine with the 9.1.


I had 43 posts before 9.1 came out and I've been a member here since 2002.

I don't ***** about minor problems.

Why do people try to minimize the problems we're having with weird justifications just because they are lucky enough not to have those problems? What if you were having the problems and we weren't?

Also, the entire tivo user base doesn't participate here. How do we know how extensive the problem is (or isn't)?

-David


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## wmelnick (Sep 28, 2007)

My 9.1 experience started badly but has gotten better.

My TivoHD took the 9.1 update Friday night. It immediately made both cablecards go black. I lost Stargate Atlantis One was actually damaged so badly it had to be replaced!

Since then everything has been fine, but things are in weird places now. Also, when are we finally getting TTG and MRV?!?!? November seems so far away now. OK, but seriously. Losing my Friday night recordings sucked. Having to wait around for Cablevision wasn;t great either, but they did come the next day, which was Sunday.

The Cablevision tech was not happy when I told him to expect this on a lot of tivos in the next few months.


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## SAH2 (Apr 1, 2007)

I just want to clarify that the manual recording bug for QAM channels will only effect people WITHOUT Cable cards. So those of you that do have cable cards will not see the problem.

For those of us without cable cards, it is a serious issue, and breaks a key function of the unit for us. Since without cable cards, there is no guide data for the network HD channels you MUST use repeated manual recordings, or you have to enter manual recording for every show on every day. That is why people in this situation are upset.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

SAH2 said:


> I just want to clarify that the manual recording bug for QAM channels will only effect people WITHOUT Cable cards. So those of you that do have cable cards will not see the problem.
> 
> For those of us without cable cards, it is a serious issue, and breaks a key function of the unit for us. Since without cable cards, there is no guide data for the network HD channels you MUST use repeated manual recordings, or you have to enter manual recording for every show on every day. That is why people in this situation are upset.


 I can understand how that one could have slipped through testing unnoticed since Tivo has not shown much, if any, interest in supporting non-cablecard users with unencrypted QAM.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

Grakthis said:


> I've got a stock S2 and a stock S3. Both have 9.1. I haven't had any problems on either device except for a few of the "pixelation" skips of maybe 2-3 seconds on some shows. But I think those happened before only instead of skipping I just had 2-3 second of pixilation. And that happened on my old cable co provided box too, so I am pretty sure it's a signal strength or other interference issue.
> 
> Not saying there aren't issues, but I am saying they aren't universal.


Try and delete a show from your todo list on your S2. I have a 649DT and mines reboots anytime I try to delete a show in my to do list.


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## fatboy15226 (Feb 19, 2007)

I have an S3 completely stock. It just "upgraded" to 9.1 on its own, I am not any sign up list.

Since the upgrade, I lose CC1 randomly and am forced to reboot. It has to be software. The CableCard diagnostic for the CC1 reports Encryption errors (No ECM or some such). A reboot fixes it 100% of the time for an undetermined period.

I will call TiVo tomorrow and report issues, but I am near my wits end as it messes up the recordings.

-dsd


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

Icarus said:


> Why do people try to minimize the problems we're having with weird justifications just because they are lucky enough not to have those problems? What if you were having the problems and we weren't?


I wasn't trying to minimize the problems, just explain how such "obvious" things can slip through testing or even be released as known problems.

Software bugs are generally categorized into a severity similar to:
Block (completely unusable) 
Crash (product crashes when a certain function is performed)
Major (a major function is unusable)
Minor (a minor function is unusable or a major one requires a workaround)
Tweak (a minor function requires a workaround)
Text (text somewhere in the UI is wrong)
Trivial (something doesn't work quite as expected but isn't critical - most users won't notice)

Returning to the wrong screen (too far up in the tree?) after performing a function would probably be considered Trivial, or Tweak at worst. Losing a recording because the CC card lost sync would be Major or Crash. Rebooting when performing a function would obviously be Crash. A failed update resulting in a paperweight would be Block.

Then, as much as we (and TiVo, probably) would like to think that because the hardware is the same or extremely similar across all S3s and TiVoHDs, the software should be easy to test, that's just wrong. Consider the following variables:

1. QAM unencrypted (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i)
2. QAM encrypted (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)
3. ATSC OTA (480p, 720p, 1080i)
4. OTA analog (480i)
5. Analog Cable
6. Previous recordings of all the above
7. Brand of Cable Card
8. Lack of Cable Card
9. Cable company
10. Various encoders
11. Varying signal strength
12. Various mucking with PSIP data
13. Manual Recordings
14. Season Passes
15. Wishlists

And that's just the recording / playback functionality. Toss 'net connection in there (dialup versus Ethernet, wireless versus wired, WPA, WEP, unencrypted...) scheduling logic, guide data logic, and you've got a LOT of variability and combinations that need to be tested. I don't envy the TiVo testers.

This is not to give them a free pass though. If the crashes are as readily reproducable as those on this board mention, there will be a 9.1.1 released pretty quickly.

Me personally? I have an S3 and 9.1 FIXED a major lockup I was having on a certain channel to the point that I had to remove that channel from my lineup or the TiVo would randomly lock up trying to record suggestions from that channel. For the past _year_ I could NOT get CBS HD because of that problem. It also messed up the 30-second skip and instant replay timing though.

To give further insight into software development, it generally goes in phases - features, fixes, rinse and repeat. 8.3 was a fix / optimization release. No new features were added and a lot of problems were fixed and the menu speed was optimized. 9.1 fixed a few things but added a lot of new features, some of which haven't even been activated yet. Expect the next release to be fixes. Most, if not all the crashes, wonkiness and cable card problems will be fixed in short order. Hopefully the 30-second skip and instant replay timing issues will be fixed.

It is not the first set of bugs TiVo has released. Those with old Series 1's may remember the MANY threads here describing "stopples". Basically errors occuring in the encoded MPEG stream. TiVo blamed it on bad hardware and how the upgrade exposed new areas of the hard disk to use and blah blah blah. Then the next update came around and the stopple reports all but vanished.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Saturn said:


> 1. QAM unencrypted (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i)
> 2. QAM encrypted (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)
> 3. ATSC OTA (480p, 720p, 1080i)
> 4. OTA analog (480i)
> ...


That stuff affects keeping track of pointers to where you are in menus?????????


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Saturn,

My comments weren't directed towards you.



> Those with old Series 1's may remember the MANY threads here describing "stopples". Basically errors occuring in the encoded MPEG stream. TiVo blamed it on bad hardware and how the upgrade exposed new areas of the hard disk to use and blah blah blah. Then the next update came around and the stopple reports all but vanished.


Yes, and it adds to the frustration when they don't acknowledge that a problem exists and a fix is forthcoming.

When I finally got through to the right person today, they wouldn't admit that other people have reported loss of reception/CC issues with 9.1.

-David


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

HDTiVo said:


> That stuff affects keeping track of pointers to where you are in menus?????????


Likely not. However, that bug was either not caught, not caught early enough to fix (classified as a low severity and the risk/benefit of fixing it versus causing additional problems or delaying the release was deemed to be not worth fixing), or it was a known issue right from development.


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## tboydsto (Dec 31, 2003)

I have had nothing but problems with both of my S3's losing CableCard QAM connections randomly. Just tonight, in fact, I lost both Heros and Journeyman due to this issue. Rebooting fixed the issue.

There is definitely an issue here. 9.1 bought this issue on, as everything was rock solid before 9.1. As with others, a reboot solves the problem.

For run, I re-ran guided setup, however no change. Reboot is the only temporary fix.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Saturn said:


> .....
> 
> To give further insight into software development, it generally goes in phases - features, fixes, rinse and repeat. 8.3 was a fix / optimization release. No new features were added and a lot of problems were fixed and the menu speed was optimized. 9.1 fixed a few things but added a lot of new features, some of which haven't even been activated yet. Expect the next release to be fixes. Most, if not all the crashes, wonkiness and cable card problems will be fixed in short order. Hopefully the 30-second skip and instant replay timing issues will be fixed.
> .......


You're preaching to the choir here. However as an engineer with over 35 years of software design and coding and embedded hardware design experience I can assure you that if a product I was responsible for was released in the same condition as 9.1 was both I and the quality assurance manager would have been looking for a new job.


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## bown (Nov 4, 2006)

RoyK said:


> You're preaching to the choir here. However as an engineer with over 35 years of software design and coding and embedded hardware design experience I can assure you that if a product I was responsible for was released in the same condition as 9.1 was both I and the quality assurance manager would have been looking for a new job.


Agreed. 13 years of experience developing air traffic control software.

The bug where deleting an item from the to do list returns to a different place in the list, OK, toss it in the pile to fix next build. Its an annoyance.

Losing cablecard function!?!? If that happened to us, there would be an IMMEDIATE fix and rebuild, and people would have to answer why it slipped through testing.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

RoyK said:


> You're preaching to the choir here. However as an engineer with over 35 years of software design and coding and embedded hardware design experience I can assure you that if a product I was responsible for was released in the same condition as 9.1 was both I and the quality assurance manager would have been looking for a new job.


I'm with you. I thought the losing cable card thing was somewhat isolated. Looks like it is pretty widespread (happens to me anyway, I just checked.) I've had zero trouble with this sort of thing since I got it last december and now I'm going to have to reboot the thing daily until they patch it.


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## ctcraig (Mar 16, 2002)

colin1497 said:


> I'm satisfied with the update so far. The only obvious changes I have noticed are:
> 
> 1) slight change in speed going to some of the menus (slower, but not mind numbingly slow, just noticeably slower)
> 2) change in behavior with interrupted datastreams on HD stations, mostly locals. IT seems to freeze then speed through the bad datastream. I can't describe exactly how this is different from previous behavior, but it does look a bit different. This happens in short bursts occasionally, again, mostly on local HD's. Watchability of the programming is just as good/bad as it was before.
> ...


I've seen the same "skip" behavior on my 9.1 S3 box. Not often but it's there


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

bown said:


> The bug where deleting an item from the to do list returns to a different place in the list, OK, toss it in the pile to fix next build. Its an annoyance.


I disagree. It makes it very easy to cancel or alter the wrong recording, which is not easy to realize and recover from. Errant canceling is as bad as losing a recording because your cableCARD goes flaky.

Then in NPL, you can easily delete the wrong recording, which again could lead to complete loss of recording.

Losing a recording is losing a recording any way you cut it.

Suppose your software caused the controller's screen to jump to the wrong plane?


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## bown (Nov 4, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> I disagree. It makes it very easy to cancel or alter the wrong recording, which is not easy to realize and recover from. Errant canceling is as bad as losing a recording because your cableCARD goes flaky.
> 
> Then in NPL, you can easily delete the wrong recording, which again could lead to complete loss of recording.
> 
> ...


What I was trying to convey is that returning to an incorrect place in a menu could cause user error, whereas a cablecard ceasing to function is a "critical" error that causes the entire unit to be unusable. The two problems would not be rated equally on severity.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

I just learned I don't have to try and delete the show, I can just select it in my to do list for more info and mines reboots. Why am I the only one with this problem?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Soapm said:


> I just learned I don't have to try and delete the show, I can just select it in my to do list for more info and mines reboots. Why am I the only one with this problem?


Is it a manual recording?


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Is it a manual recording?


No, these are not recordings. It is anything in my to do list? You know, the shows that will record.

I have a bunch in my to do list with 0 as the channel and no matter what I do with them my Tivo reboots. Sucks to be alone in this boat.


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## bown (Nov 4, 2006)

Soapm said:


> No, these are not recordings. It is anything in my to do list? You know, the shows that will record.
> 
> I have a bunch in my to do list with 0 as the channel and no matter what I do with them my Tivo reboots. Sucks to be alone in this boat.


have you tried re-running the guided setup? Resetting the channels seems to help some people with 9.1 issues.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Soapm said:


> No, these are not recordings. It is anything in my to do list? You know, the shows that will record.
> 
> I have a bunch in my to do list with 0 as the channel and no matter what I do with them my Tivo reboots. Sucks to be alone in this boat.


So they are season passes on channels you no longer receive? Or are they manual recordings? You still didn't answer the question.


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

I'm hoping I won't see 9.1 very soon after reading this thread. I work in QA and we rate bugs by severity 1 - 4 and from the sound of the problems reported, many of these would be Sev 1 or 2 in our shop and would NEVER have been released - even in Alpha mode. We'll ship with Sev 3 problems for Alpha deliveries but once it goes to the customer, any unfixed Sev 3s have to be documented as acceptable by the customer. Sev 4 defects are suggestions for improvements and useability issues that don't affect the operation. And there's another layer here - our software customers are manufacturers who customize the application before sending it to the end user, and this level of problems in the field is unacceptable. As someone mentioned above, I'd be looking for a job if software with bugs of this quantity and severity got out the door.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

It is time now for someone from TiVo to make a statement.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

bown said:


> What I was trying to convey is that returning to an incorrect place in a menu could cause user error, whereas a cablecard ceasing to function is a "critical" error that causes the entire unit to be unusable. The two problems would not be rated equally on severity.


OK, I agree on the difference.

But, would you ship a system that made it relatively easy for a controller to make a user error leading to controlling the wrong plane?

The CC failure could perhaps be compensated for, like pull the CC and know you have only one tuner active and proceed accordingly. That way you have less functionality but you know and plan around it. The occassional user error problem is worse from that perspective because humans can't be that reliable to consistently compensate.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> It is time now for someone from TiVo to make a statement.


They did. They announced the Rhapsody availability in case you want some way to spend your time while the TV functions aren't working. Of course that will cost you another wad of money every month and you won't be able to transfer your music files to anything.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

all this sounds to me like poor management: someone was not driving the bus when this happened.


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## ssing (Feb 20, 2007)

9.1 is a major disaster. It is not worthy of being called a major upgrade. UI response on my S3 is horrible now. When I press "Now Playing list", it responds with a blank screen and takes a couple of seconds to populate the list. Scrolloing down the lists is equally slow.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

Seeing as how many of the members of this forum are also beta testers (I know, they can't say anything) I'm surprised these bugs weren't more prominent durring beta testing.

I'm curious, anyone here have 9.1 on FiOS in the NoVA area? If so, are you seeing pixelation? If no, did you see it before the update?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ssing said:


> 9.1 is a major disaster. It is not worthy of being called a major upgrade. UI response on my S3 is horrible now. When I press "Now Playing list", it responds with a blank screen and takes a couple of seconds to populate the list. Scrolloing down the lists is equally slow.


A major disaster for you perhaps, 
I'm not saying anyones issues are not valid, but face it, people with no issues aren't likely to come online and say anything, and the TCF denizens are pretty vocal in all cases, but are not *all* Tivo owners.

In my case my S2 and S3 both got 9.1, and other then the lil 30-sec skip hiccup, I see no issues, you can put me in the "no gain, no loss" camp for 9.1

Diane


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> A major disaster for you perhaps,
> I'm not saying anyones issues are not valid, but face it, people with no issues aren't likely to come online and say anything, and the TCF denizens are pretty vocal in all cases, but are not *all* Tivo owners.
> 
> In my case my S2 and S3 both got 9.1, and other then the lil 30-sec skip hiccup, I see no issues, you can put me in the "no gain, no loss" camp for 9.1
> ...


I have no idea what TCF means (Tivo Community Forum?), but your logic is flawed. I suspect a small fraction of tivo owners read and/or contribute here, so if a serious problem is being experienced by multiple people that report it here, you can probably multiply that by some factor. Also, not everybody posting here posts for every little problem or complaint they have with their tivo. Join date and number of posts are probably a pretty good indication of who posts here just because and who doesn't. And some people with lots of posts, post here because they try to help others or have something to contribute other than complaints.

I'm glad you are lucky enough to not be losing channels or having any other serious problems with 9.1, but I don't think that makes my problem any less serious to me since it affects my ability to record programs when the unit is unattended or if I'm not paying attention to the recordings if I am here.

If you were affected, I'm sure you would probably feel differently. Frankly I don't understand why many people feel the need to post to tell us that they don't think it's a serious problem because they aren't having it. There's a poll thread where you should enter that information, because that's where it will help. Take a look at the results and it should be obvious that it's a serious problem.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369192

At this moment, the results are 60% not having the problem, 40% having the problem, with 78 total responses.

If this problem was a fluke, I might have a different response as well, but it's clear that it isn't. And yes, it's also clear that it doesn't affect everybody. But still, that doesn't minimize the impact of the problem to those that have it.

Sorry for the rant. Sure, slow menus are annoying, but they don't prevent the unit from operating correctly. (And I'm not trying to minimize that problem for anybody that's having it. Yes, I agree it's really annoying and shouldn't happen.)

-David


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I've seen a couple people post they had no problems and come back and post they realized they do have problems. Look closer. You'll find problems.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Icarus said:


> If this problem was a fluke, I might have a different response as well, but it's clear that it isn't. And yes, it's also clear that it doesn't affect everybody. But still, that doesn't minimize the impact of the problem to those that have it.-David


well that is very different from saying 9.1 is a major disaster


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Icarus said:


> I have no idea what TCF means (Tivo Community Forum?)


Correct



> Frankly I don't understand why many people feel the need to post to tell us that they don't think it's a serious problem because they aren't having it. There's a poll thread where you should enter that information, because that's where it will help. Take a look at the results and it should be obvious that it's a serious problem.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369192
> 
> At this moment, the results are 60% not having the problem, 40% having the problem, with 78 total responses.


I've voted, and the reason some of us feel the need to come into a thread named "Tivo: 9.1 what the hell were you thinking?" is to add to the voices that say it is not unanimous, and not everyone has been affected negatively, if none of us came in and said "hey.. I'm ok" this thread would suggest the poll should read "100% have problems"

To several others, ignorance is bliss, I don't intend to hunt for problems because I'm fine the way I am, once you see something, you can't unsee it. A personal thing I wish no one had ever pointed out? Trinitron Guide wires, I can spot a Trinitron tube from 50 paces after learning about them.

As I said in my post, I'm not trying to negate the folks having problems, just to help give a more diverse set of data.

Diane


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## swoodbridge (Nov 24, 2002)

I have had a TIVO since Series 1 and I was always willing to give TIVO the benefit of the doubt but this time I am really really mad! I was even willing to take the problems that come with being an early adopter of the Series 3 since the HD was so great. I knew they would fix the problems and they did. My series 3 had been working perfectly on both cable cards but in the last two days I've lost the digital channels on one card each evening(a different one each time) and missed recording digital shows I wanted to watch. Each time it is a different card and a reset of the TIVo brings back the channels. I wish they would roll back the update for those of us that do not want or need it!!!! Sharon in Indy


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well that is very different from saying 9.1 is a major disaster


So, in other words, you think we should be ok with 9.1?

It's a crap release, and has turned perfectly working S3s that were running 8.3 into your basic brick if you have the CC/channel problem.

I think that qualifies as a major disaster, even though those weren't my words.

As for those of you that haven't had the problem, so far you are lucky. You may still get it. But I wouldn't wish it on you. On some past releases I didn't have the problems that others had either. Try to see it from the other POV.

-David


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

swoodbridge said:


> I have had a TIVO since Series 1 and I was always willing to give TIVO the benefit of the doubt but this time I am really really mad! I was even willing to take the problems that come with being an early adopter of the Series 3 since the HD was so great. I knew they would fix the problems and they did. My series 3 had been working perfectly on both cable cards but in the last two days I've lost the digital channels on one card each evening(a different one each time) and missed recording digital shows I wanted to watch. Each time it is a different card and a reset of the TIVo brings back the channels. I wish they would roll back the update for those of us that do not want or need it!!!! Sharon in Indy


Sharon,

I sympathize with you. Please call tivo to open a trouble ticket, especially if you can call when you have the problem before you do a reset.

-David


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> I've voted, and the reason some of us feel the need to come into a thread named "Tivo: 9.1 what the hell were you thinking?" is to add to the voices that say it is not unanimous, and not everyone has been affected negatively, if none of us came in and said "hey.. I'm ok" this thread would suggest the poll should read "100% have problems"


Just because you haven't had the CC/channel problem doesn't mean you won't get it, and nobody in this thread or other threads where the problem has been discussed has implied that everybody has the problem. Enough people are having this problem which implies that the configuration testing for the release wasn't very thorough.

If you were having a serious problem that I wasn't having, I wouldn't post to say that the release is a good one. I might post to say, I haven't seen the problem, but that wouldn't make your problem less serious.

So, I think it's ok to say, "hey, I'm not having the problem", but to claim that because you aren't having it that it's a good release is just an incorrect argument, unless your a complete fanboy and you think Tivo can never do any wrong no matter what they do, good or bad.



> As I said in my post, I'm not trying to negate the folks having problems, just to help give a more diverse set of data.


Fair enough.

-David


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> To several others, ignorance is bliss, I don't intend to hunt for problems because I'm fine the way I am, once you see


You are better off. I don't _really want _ people to go looking for trouble.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Icarus said:


> It's a crap release, and has turned perfectly working S3s that were running 8.3 into your basic brick if you have the CC/channel problem.
> 
> I think that qualifies as a major disaster, even though those weren't my words.


Its the worst release I can think of, but that is going too far.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

edrock200 said:


> Seeing as how many of the members of this forum are also beta testers (I know, they can't say anything) I'm surprised these bugs weren't more prominent durring beta testing.
> 
> I'm curious, anyone here have 9.1 on FiOS in the NoVA area? If so, are you seeing pixelation? If no, did you see it before the update?


Why would think that this release was beta tested ??


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## StEvEY5036 (Jul 9, 2003)

HDTiVo said:


> Its the worst release I can think of, but that is going too far.


I am now just starting to see problems that I did not have before my box got 9.1.

When FF'ing then pausing, the screen goes blank and the searching for signal comes up on my tv for about 1 second, then it goes back to normal. Then when I resume play, the screen goes blank again for another second. This also happens when I go back to the menu from watching programming. My output setting is 1080i fixed.

Also I noticed some serious pixilation and audio drop outs while watching House tonight on Fox HD. I've never experienced these issues before the upgrade.. I agree that this was an awful release on Tivo's part.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> In my case my S2 and S3 both got 9.1, and other then the lil 30-sec skip hiccup, I see no issues, you can put me in the "no gain, no loss" camp for 9.1 Diane


After a lot of whining about the 30 sec skip problem, I think you can put me in your camp. It's not that big of a deal and otherwise I'm not seeing any issues that really affect my TiVo viewing enjoyment in full HD. And that is the most important part of the equation for me.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Icarus said:


> So, I think it's ok to say, "hey, I'm not having the problem", but to claim that because you aren't having it that it's a good release is just an incorrect argument, unless your a complete fanboy and you think Tivo can never do any wrong no matter what they do, good or bad.


I never claimed 9.1 was a good release without issues, nor do I think they can do no wrong, I've simply claimed that some of us are not experiencing the issues that others are.

(and if someone has cursed me by saying I should be so afflicted.. well a pox on you all!  )

I've had the "losing place when in the menus" issue in the past releases, and plain and simple, it bites, and I was glad to see it squashed, and will be bummed if it returns for me.

Diane


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## WebG (Jan 31, 2005)

I agree 9.1 was a bad release, at the very least from the UI issue. I've been lucky so far that I haven't run into anything failed. But the menu speed issue is one thing, and the resetting of menus back to the top of a list is a Very Bad Decision that needs to be changed back to the way it was.

As I mentioned in the 9.1 Bugs thread, what used to take me 9 clicks to scroll through a list of one evening's upcoming programs (on the manual recording / view by channel screen) now takes me at least 24 clicks. More than twice the effort.... and with a slower UI. Not a good decision at all.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

rainwater said:


> So they are season passes on channels you no longer receive? Or are they manual recordings? You still didn't answer the question.


No, I still receive the channels. They are not manual recordings. One of the shows is Frasier which comes on many times per day and the channel is still availible. It records the shows, it just has a 0 for the channel in the to do list and if I select one of these the Tivo will reboot.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

edrock200 said:


> I'm curious, anyone here have 9.1 on FiOS in the NoVA area? If so, are you seeing pixelation? If no, did you see it before the update?


Is MD close enough for ya? No problems here so far. I've yet to see any pixelation with 9.1, but I've seen it very sporadically in the past. (Most recently, the last Robot Chicken was very messed up; before that, it was the previous weeks' Dexter. The latter, at least, was a Fios-wide problem also reported by non-Tivo users.) And 9.1 finally makes ch. 313 work.


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> To several others, ignorance is bliss, I don't intend to hunt for problems because I'm fine the way I am, once you see something, you can't unsee it. A personal thing I wish no one had ever pointed out? Trinitron Guide wires, I can spot a Trinitron tube from 50 paces after learning about them.


My lovely former wife came to visit and pointed out an almost imperceptible flaw in my 61" tube projection TV that I had never noticed. After a year of service calls and extreme aggravation, CC replaced the set. Had she never pointed out the flaw I would have been a much happier camper. (I don't have 9.1 yet)


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

lessd said:


> Why would think that this release was beta tested ??


That seems to work for Micro$oft - let the customers be the beta testers. (just a little tension reliever)

"The most difficult part of the whole project was installing Windows on Sigbritt's PC" network boss Hafsteinn Jonsson


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

bown said:


> have you tried re-running the guided setup? Resetting the channels seems to help some people with 9.1 issues.


Re-running the guided set up didn't work but I did a "Clear program information & To Do List" and so far I seem stable. No reboots so far.

My biggest loss, all the information in my no record list


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

ETA on this bug fix?


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

pl1 said:


> After a lot of whining about the 30 sec skip problem, I think you can put me in your camp. It's not that big of a deal and otherwise I'm not seeing any issues that really affect my TiVo viewing enjoyment in full HD. And that is the most important part of the equation for me.


Well that is a cop out. 8.3 worked flawlessly on the skip fwd/back. 9.1 DOES NOT. It is now difficult to use. You can lay down and gauge what is a problem or not, but 8.3 for me was great. 9.1 is a step back.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Why is the bug only affecting some people? I have no problems on my boxes. 4 Motorla cable cards with FIOS and 6 SA cards with Comcast. All boxes also get OTA.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

timckelley said:


> ETA on this bug fix?


Prior to the check from E* clearing.


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## greggt007 (Dec 9, 2005)

edrock200 said:


> I'm curious, anyone here have 9.1 on FiOS in the NoVA area? If so, are you seeing pixelation? If no, did you see it before the update?


i'm in alexandria, i had the Fios dvr for a week and now the hd for a week...they have the same pixelation issue, random every now and then line across the screen, doesnt bother me too much but sometimes it is bad, like espnhd it seems to be more noticeable


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Why is the bug only affecting some people? I have no problems on my boxes. 4 Motorla cable cards with FIOS and 6 SA cards with Comcast. All boxes also get OTA.


We don't really know. If it affected everybody, presumably they would have discovered the problem during testing.

You have enough boxes and been around long enough to know that all their bugs don't always affect everybody. There are differences in the cable systems, the cable cards, the way we use our tivos, etc.

-David


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

jtreid said:


> Well that is a cop out. 8.3 worked flawlessly on the skip fwd/back. 9.1 DOES NOT. It is now difficult to use. You can lay down and gauge what is a problem or not, but 8.3 for me was great. 9.1 is a step back.


Call it what you want. I started to put things in perspective and I'm far more concerned with other aspects such as the picture quality, good conflict management and the ability to record what I want, when I want, with no issues, not to mention the 30 sec skip has improved greatly on both of my machines.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> I've seen a couple people post they had no problems and come back and post they realized they do have problems. Look closer. You'll find problems.


Your definition of "problem" is much more liberal than mine. I don't consider a minor annoyance to be a serious problem worthy of *****ing about on a forum.

Some of us don't have an issue with the new 30 second skip behavior, or don't see it because we don't hit the button as fast as is humanly possible.

I have better things to spend my time on than incredibly minor TiVo bugs.

There are a few people who are having much more serious issues, although those seem to be mostly related to SA CableCARDs, so more than anything it's an old issue rearing its ugly head once again.


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## travisc77 (May 26, 2005)

I posted a couple of times about 2 weeks ago on this same issue. Nobody really commented so I called Tivo and after troubleshooting, they issued a replacement box be sent out, which I installed last night. Now the box is working fine with software 8.1c? We'll see if my issues return when I get updated to 9.1, & I'll report back one way or the other.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Wow... that's how TiVo is handling this? Send out a new box instead of fixing the software?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

wierdo said:


> ...
> There are a few people who are having much more serious issues, although those seem to be mostly related to SA CableCARDs, so more than anything it's an old issue rearing its ugly head once again.


There are a MULTITUDE of serious bugs in 9.1 that have nothing whatever to do with Cablecards. Check the 9.1 bugs thread in the TiVoCommunity forum.


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## travisc77 (May 26, 2005)

And send out a NEW box they did. 

Even the instructions for the RMA says to not ship anything except the box back to Tivo (i.e. keep the controller & cables). But they sent me an unopened Tivo HD, works like a charm (as did my original HD for the first week or two).

I'll admit that I'm glad Tivo did something like this, the CSR was very good as was the tech support person. Maybe my case is unique, but some of these channels disappearing happened even when the CC's were pulled. The technical support person even indicated that the tuners in the HD were more sensitive than the S3 and maybe something was wrong with them (I have a flawlessly running S3, but not on 9.1 yet).

Time will tell and I'll report back.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Had the problem of loosing all digitals on a CC tonight again. Noticed a blank screen, and it was supposed to be recording CSI: NY on digital channel KGMBDT (87).

Tried manually switching channels. Only analog channels came in. The other CC/tuner was happily recording Life on the NBC HD local channel, and it was coming in just fine.

Reset box, and restarted recording. I lost the first 15 minutes of the showCSI: NY.

When I called to log the problem the first time, the second level person said I needed to call when the problem was happening so they could run some diagnostics. I looked briefly at the diagnostic pages for both CCs, and nothing looked odd. I wasn't going to leave myself without the second tuner until their call center reopens.

Tivo: Please help.

-David


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

TexasGrillChef said:


> IMHO.... It just doesn't make logical sense. If something is wrong in HW/SW with any type of product. Then it will do it for 100% of the time, if the units are 100% identical.
> 
> So what is different in *MY* TiVo S3 that *DOESN"T* have these bugs, that *OTHERS* are having the bugs?


Don't ever try to apply logic to this stuff. There are so many factors involved.

Anecdote: In 1990 I was writing Desk Accessories for the Mac (little apps) to control laserdisc players. It was working fine, except on my bosses' mac plus. The graphics would not draw.

So I poked and prodded, but it worked on my machine. I then took my system (on an external SCSI drive) and used her hardware with my system, still failed

I checked the ROMs, same version. I checked the motherboard revision - same. Ram - same.

In the end, I found the bug, I was not locking a handle of memory, but for some reason, and I never did figure it out, it worked fine on every Mac in the house (about 20) except this one. And it was a legitimate bug.

Fun times 

(Then there was the time a machine crashed constantly, but never in the shop. turned out to be a monitor that had a short in it, and they were not taking the monitor along with the machine to the shop)

Steve


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

A friend of mine worked at Trinco in the late 1970s, and they had an IBM 360 which started mysteriously going down at 3:30 in the afternoon, weekdays only, but not every day. They tore that system apart, eventually replacing almost every single piece of hardware associated even remotely with the system. Still, very near 3:30 on some weekdays it would fail. Finally all the engineers had pretty much thrown up their hands and were standing near the CPU unit, glaring at it, daring it to fail. Then, right at 3:30, a young graduate student wearing a cashmere sweater walked by the system. In the quiet, everyone copuld hear a crackle as she walked past the unit and BANG!, down it went. The static discharge from her sweater was sending the unit into a tizzy. The student walked past the unit every weekday on her way to the computing lab at 3:30, but the system only went down on days when it was cold and she decided to wear one of her cashmere sweaters.


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## bsw1971 (Oct 12, 2007)

Glad to know I'm not the only one having problems. I've been experiencing 2 to 3 second pauses while watching recorded shows, the interface is very slow (sometimes taking many seconds to appear), and today the TiVo has stopped working twice during replay of a recorded show and I'm forced to power it down and restart. I wasn't having these problems before.


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## Terial-DeVo (Nov 1, 2004)

When was 9.1 released? 
Reason i am asking is i was up watching Live TV at about 1:30 in the morning 2 days ago, when 15 min before my show ended, BAMMO grey screen with cable card info saying i need to call Comcast to activate my cards.
I am set up with 3 CC, 2 in the S3 and 1 in the TV for live tv if 2 thigns are recording.

I switch over to the TV CC and oddly that is dead too. I figured Comcast was doing some update and i lost my signal, no biggie. 
I call comcast and they resend the signal (it will take 24 hours to "activate") 
24 hours later, the tivo is still not working, but the CC for the TV is working just fine!

I figure, okay, at least let me take the card from the TV and stick it in one of the slots of the S3 so i can record something. I take out the card, slap it into the S3 and nothing, grey screen saying to contact Comcast.

I take the card back out and put it in the TV, now, this card _WAS_ working not even 10 min before and i put it back in the TV after the S3 and it's not working anymore.

I have called Comcast 4 or 5 times since then and i can not get any of my 3 CC's working. They suggested that i go swap them out for new ones but i do not think that is the issue. Especially because one was working but after putting it in the S3 it stopped.

After reading a bunch of forums, i'm gonna go do a few more reboots, but i dont think that will help and i dont think new CC's will help either, just strange that the S3 wiped a working CC.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Terial-DeVo said:


> When was 9.1 released?
> Reason i am asking is i was up watching Live TV at about 1:30 in the morning 2 days ago, when 15 min before my show ended, BAMMO grey screen with cable card info saying i need to call Comcast to activate my cards.
> I am set up with 3 CC, 2 in the S3 and 1 in the TV for live tv if 2 thigns are recording.
> 
> ...


v9.1 started mass rollout on October 1st however there were early tests which started about two weeks before that. Upgrades are downloaded during a normal connection to Mother TiVo and are subsequently implemented at 2 a.m. local time.

CC's are generally paired with the equipment so swapping them between components usually won't work. You could try rebooting TiVo and then running guided setup again (others have reported having to do that with the most recent upgrade) but you'll likely need Comcast to come out, re-pair your current cards and/or re-hit them.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

The first week of this month 9.1 was made available...

Two weeks before that a select few had the update to their Tivo's, it's been going down hill since...


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

We need some kind of announcement from TiVo that they are at least working on the problem.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

timckelley said:


> We need some kind of announcement from TiVo that they are at least working on the problem.


I just Googled "pigs fly" and I don't see a scheduled date for that.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

timckelley said:


> We need some kind of announcement from TiVo that they are at least working on the problem.


Why? What would you do with that information?

In any case, what makes you think TiVo would not be working on the issues? History shows that previous releases that had issues were followed relatively quickly with a fix release.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

sinanju said:


> Why? What would you do with that information?
> 
> In any case, what makes you think TiVo would not be working on the issues? History shows that previous releases that had issues were followed relatively quickly with a fix release.


What history shows is that TiVo's major releases (7.1, 8.1, 9.1) were fostered on the user base laden with bugs that should have been caught and fixed prior to release. I'm not talking about subtle problems here but blatant ones. They then used their paying customers as their QA arm to point out the problems and then, yes, subsequently fixed most of them.

In the meantime the customers had to put up with degraded performance or features that didn't work properly.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

sinanju said:


> Why? What would you do with that information?


I personally would do nothing with it, as I don't own an HD TiVo. But those customers who do own one might feel better about TiVo Corp if such an announcement were made. Do we really have any statement from them that they realize there's a problem and there's working on it? If no such statement/admission has been made, I could see where some customers would be worried, and might be going through more stress than they should have to.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

timckelley said:


> I personally would do nothing with it, as I don't own an HD TiVo. But those customers who do own one might feel better about TiVo Corp if such an announcement were made. Do we really have any statement from them that they realize there's a problem and there's working on it? If no such statement/admission has been made, I could see where some customers would be worried, and might be going through more stress than they should have to.


Not to mention that people would call in and report problems that TiVo is already aware of, which would be useless.

I agree that some sort of acknowledgment would be a very good thing.


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## TracerBullet (Dec 17, 2004)

I'm a little unclear about something- if I wanted to try and fix my problem by rerunning guided setup, would it be advisable to pop out and reinsert the cablecards before I do so? They should not have to be repaired, correct? If there's any chance of this I'm not going to remove the cards as I really want to avoid a truck roll for something that seems to be a TiVo problem. Should I get the cable company to rehit the cards before I do anything?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TracerBullet said:


> I'm a little unclear about something- if I wanted to try and fix my problem by rerunning guided setup, would it be advisable to pop out and reinsert the cablecards before I do so? They should not have to be repaired, correct? If there's any chance of this I'm not going to remove the cards as I really want to avoid a truck roll for something that seems to be a TiVo problem. Should I get the cable company to rehit the cards before I do anything?


I'd reboot TiVo (unplug it for 10 -15 seconds and plug it back in) and run guided setup as is first and then deal with your cableco.

AFAIK, removing the cards and reinserting them wouldn't help and might bring on more problems, but I guess that all depends how bad your situation is.


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## TracerBullet (Dec 17, 2004)

richsadams said:


> I'd reboot TiVo (unplug it for 10 -15 seconds and plug it back in) and run guided setup as is first and then deal with your cableco.
> 
> AFAIK, removing the cards and reinserting them wouldn't help and might bring on more problems, but I guess that all depends how bad your situation is.


Thanks, I'll try that. :up:

My problem is very bad- I am missing the majority of channels on both tuners.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TracerBullet said:


> Thanks, I'll try that. :up:
> 
> My problem is very bad- I am missing the majority of channels on both tuners.


  Yikes! Best of luck there and let us know how it goes.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Not to mention that people would call in and report problems that TiVo is already aware of, which would be useless.
> 
> I agree that some sort of acknowledgment would be a very good thing.


 +1 :up:

TiVo has acknowledged at least one v9.1 bug here.

They eventually did acknowledge that there were problems with the THD's macroblocking and SA CC's when it first came out here and here  and an upgrade here as well. They did send out new releases to address that fairly quickly.

It would certainly be good P.R. to let everyone know that they're officially working on a patch for v9.1 or that the fix(es) will be in the November release. TiVo's silence is deafening at this point. Hopefully they won't try to tie the two together and delay the next release though.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Well, I can see maybe putting off a bug repair for wishlist problems until November, but I'd think this bug, which renders some of y'all's TiVos useless ought to be a critical high priority bug to be fixed ASAP.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

timckelley said:


> Well, I can see maybe putting off a bug repair for wishlist problems until November, but I'd think this bug, which renders some of y'all's TiVos useless ought to be a critical high priority bug to be fixed ASAP.


+1 :up:


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## TracerBullet (Dec 17, 2004)

richsadams said:


> Yikes! Best of luck there and let us know how it goes.


Well, that didn't work, unfortunately. I still get "basic" cable channels plus the basic HD package, so something weird is going on. My next step will be to get the cable company to rehit my cards and cross my fingers.


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## beno (Jan 4, 2003)

I too rarely post here but I am also seeing the cable cards go bad now. I was ready to call my cable company (WideOpen West) but then I saw this thread. It's really frustrating having a $700 S3 with a beautiful 46" Sony and now I have to check every time something is recording to make sure it is really there.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

I've had to "restart" the Tivo three days in a row now... The signals lost within a 24 hour period... This was not the case before 9.1 ruined my Tivo...


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

I had it again this morning. Since tivo support was open, I called in with the blank screen on the monitor. They really had nothing new to offer. He asked me to display the cable card diagnostic screen. Rather that software reset, he suggested a hard reset (unplug the unit).

Everybody was very nice and very apologetic. But I had to keep correcting him when he said that the hard reset will solve my problem. After he suggested 3 hard resets (a suggestion from his supervisor) I told him that I thought that was absurd. (No, I didn't do it. I don't like having to unplug the unit at all when it's running, and I'm certainly not going to do it three times in a row.)

-David


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Dr_Diablo said:


> I've had to "restart" the Tivo three days in a row now... The signals lost within a 24 hour period... This was not the case before 9.1 ruined my Tivo...


Please call them to open a ticket if you haven't done that yet.

From experience (see above) there's probably nothing they can do to help immediately, but at least you will have the problem officially logged.

-David


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

TracerBullet said:


> I'm a little unclear about something- if I wanted to try and fix my problem by rerunning guided setup, would it be advisable to pop out and reinsert the cablecards before I do so? They should not have to be repaired, correct? If there's any chance of this I'm not going to remove the cards as I really want to avoid a truck roll for something that seems to be a TiVo problem. Should I get the cable company to rehit the cards before I do anything?


You should only remove the cards when your Tivo is off... otherwise the unit will assume they are new, requiring re-paired...

Trust me on this, I did the very same thing, had to get the cards flashed a second time...


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I just Googled "pigs fly" and I don't see a scheduled date for that.


Don't know why, but this made me ROLTFLMAO 

Must be slap happy now!


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

I posted over in the other thread a couple of observations about the "Lost Tuner" Cable Card issue in 9.1.

One of the other posters observed that this issue seems to happen when both tuners go to record something at the same time...

Since a lot of folks posting this symptom seem to have eSATA drives attached, I started thinking...

I've turned off suggestions, and that has drastically mitigated my losing a tuner...

I too have an eSATA drive attached, and due to all the extra storage (750GB total), my S3 seems to be constantly recording suggestion due to all the available space. So turning suggestions off really seems to help. Which would make sense since with extra eSATA storage available, my TiVO would be more likely to more frequently record two shows at once than say someone with only stock internal storage...

So I'd say try turning off suggestions as a partial work around...

The second work-around that may make sense is to shut down the TiVo, remove one of the cableCARDs, and then rerun Guided Setup to put the TiVo into Single Tuner mode...


Barry


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

I thought I already posted a reply to this suggestion. Frankly it won't work for me. While I could turn off suggestions, then do I also have to stop recording any programs that start at the same time? Also, some of us have wishlist entries at the bottom of our SPs to record things like any HD movie that keep our tivos busy recording most of the time.

If it works for you, great. But I don't think it's a reasonable workaround for everybody.

Also, removing one of the cablecards would probably leave me worse off than I am now. The whole point of waiting for and buying an S3 or HDT was to get the ability to use two tuners so we can record programs simultaneously. Maybe this will be effective for people that have OTA + CCs, but it isn't going to work for me.

-David


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Those of you having problems, try this. Go into the diagnostics screen and browse down the information. The second page down should show the CableCard association for Tuner 0. It should be CableCard 2. The fourth page down should show the CableCard association for Tuner 1. It should be CableCard 1. If these are swapped, (Tuner 0 with CableCard 1 and Tuner 1 with CableCard 2), then physically shut down power to your TiVo for 15 seconds and then power it back up. After it comes back to life, check the diags again. If Tuner 0 is now with Card 2 and Tuner 1 is now with Card 1, you should be good to go. Check the tuning abilities of both cards.

(Note, take care how you check this. You may think you arre changing channels on Tuner 1 when in reality you are changing from Tuner 1 to Tuner 0 and then changing channels. To prevent this, tune one tuner to a specific channel and start recording the channel. Then switch to the other tuner and change its channels. To check the other tuner, start recording the channel on this tuner and switch back to the first tuner.)

From what i have seen, this may be more likely to happen with SA cards than Motorola cards, or possibly only with SA cards. I've seen it on 2 different TiVos, and powering down fixed it. Note a soft reboot does not seem to fix the issue. Power must be removed and restored.

For those of you who don't know, the diagnostics screen can be accessed by going to Messages and Settings => Account and System Information => Diagnostics


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

Icarus said:


> I thought I already posted a reply to this suggestion. Frankly it won't work for me. While I could turn off suggestions, then do I also have to stop recording any programs that start at the same time? Also, some of us have wishlist entries at the bottom of our SPs to record things like any HD movie that keep our tivos busy recording most of the time.
> 
> If it works for you, great. But I don't think it's a reasonable workaround for everybody.
> 
> ...


Hi David,

Understood, and I do agree. I don't use Wishlists, so that's not an issue for me...(actually using wishilists is something I should probably look at doing myself at some point...)

But, in lieu of TiVo fixing the problem, I was just trying to suggest some thoughts of work-arounds until TiVo addresses it. No solution will be "optimal" or actually acceptable (IMHO) until TiVo issues a patch or something. On the other hand, I can't see babysitting the TiVo until then either... So any kind of temporary work around which requires less maintenance on the user's part seems like a good thing to me?

I mean I'd much rather be in single tuner mode (temporarily, until TiVo fixes) and not record some shows on purpose (and hopefully catch them later) than leave things be and miss shows by accident because the TiVo lost a tuner... But that's just me...

Barry


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> Those of you having problems, try this. Go into the diagnostics screen and browse down the information. The second page down should show the CableCard association for Tuner 0. It should be CableCard 2. The fourth page down should show the CableCard association for Tuner 1. It should be CableCard 1. If these are swapped, (Tuner 0 with CableCard 1 and Tuner 1 with CableCard 2), then physically shut down power to your TiVo for 15 seconds and then power it back up. After it comes back to life, check the diags again. If Tuner 0 is now with Card 2 and Tuner 1 is now with Card 1, you should be good to go. Check the tuning abilities of both cards.
> 
> (Note, take care how you check this. You may think you arre changing channels on Tuner 1 when in reality you are changing from Tuner 1 to Tuner 0 and then changing channels. To prevent this, tune one tuner to a specific channel and start recording the channel. Then switch to the other tuner and change its channels. To check the other tuner, start recording the channel on this tuner and switch back to the first tuner.)
> 
> From what i have seen, this may be more likely to happen with SA cards than Motorola cards, or possibly only with SA cards. I've seen it on 2 different TiVos, and powering down fixed it. Note a soft reboot does not seem to fix the issue. Power must be removed and restored.


I haven't seen this quite this way on my S3 with SA cards. My tuners haven't switched CCs when I've had the problem as near as I can tell. In fact, I'm certain that on my last necessitated reboot that Tuner 0 was CC 2 and Tuner 1 was CC 1, and CC1 on on Tuner 1 was my "lost" tuner...

Also, a Reset from the Reset menu option seems to work fine for me as a fix. (Although sometimes it's just easier to unplug on the back of the TiVo  )

Barry


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bguzik said:


> I haven't seen this quite this way on my S3 with SA cards. My tuners haven't switched CCs when I've had the problem as near as I can tell. In fact, I'm certain that on my last necessitated reboot that Tuner 0 was CC 2 and Tuner 1 was CC 1, and CC1 on on Tuner 1 was my "lost" tuner...


As always, YMMV, and it sounds like yours does. It looks like any time the associations are switched, however, it will cause a problem.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Barry,

I realize you were trying to be helpful, and being helpful is a good thing around here.

Thanks,
David


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## bguzik (Jan 7, 2002)

Icarus said:


> Barry,
> 
> I realize you were trying to be helpful, and being helpful is a good thing around here.
> 
> ...


No Sweat! 

(I had a whole boatload of posts here back in the early S1 days...they somehow got wiped out... I guess because I hadn't posted in a long time...)

I completely agree about how frustrating this situation is...

Barry


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bguzik said:


> I posted over in the other thread a couple of observations about the "Lost Tuner" Cable Card issue in 9.1.
> 
> One of the other posters observed that this issue seems to happen when both tuners go to record something at the same time...
> 
> ...


Hey Barry. Interesting idea. :up: Were not having many problems since v9.1 was installed and the more I read the more I think we may have the golden setup of sorts. We have a stock S3 with eSATA but I gave up on TiVo Suggestions a few years ago. We also have Motorola cable cards. We have about 70 Season Passes and very few Wish List items. However we have quite a few programs scheduled to record at the same time. In fact it seems more often than not both record lights are on during prime time but we're not experiencing the nasty problems others are seeing.

A while back people w/eSATA drives were experiencing slow downs, freeze ups and reboots. At the time there were a couple of posts that said that Suggestions, Recently Deleted items and other "non-mission critical" programs are indexed in a separate file from normal recordings. The thought process was that this file was set up to only work with the capacity of a single drive and that the eSATAs additional space overwhelmed itif that makes sense. Reducing the number of Season Passes, turning off Suggestions and clearing everything out of the Recently Deleted folder seemed to bring things back to normal for some (including us). I'm not sure if doing those sorts of things would help here, but it might be worth a try. I wouldn't do it permanentlykeeping the Recently deleted folder empty is a real PIAbut if it helps some people get by until they fix whatever is wrong it couldn't hurt.

*lrhorer's* suggestion about the mis-configured tuner situation is really interesting as well as a number of people have posted that after the Fall Upgrade was installed their TiVo's lost channels and had a myriad of problems until they did a hard reboot (sometimes three or four times) and some even had to repeat the Guided Setup. After that things seemed to return to normal

Since v9.1 was installed I'm almost certain we're seeing more macroblocking and the odd audio issue on our S3primarily on HD channels, none last very long...but we almost never saw either previously. Our S2s seem to be working fine.

Thanks to all for the suggestions...hope they get things straightened out soon.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Last night I had a situation where I could not get some new recordings to play (*freeze*) and LiveTV would *freeze*. However, jumping back from real time then let LiveTV play fine. I could even catch up to real time and then play fine.

Doing a *hard reboot * not only fixed the problem, but the "bad" recordings played fine. So nothing was lost. :up:

Prior to the reboot, I could 2FF through the recordings and see everything seemed to be there. (1FF did not work - freeze)

Also, at no time was there any indication of poor SNR, RS errors or low signal strength.

Is this one of the things others have experienced?

Is there any indication than 9.1 is not rolling out anymore? My new TiVo HD has not gotten it after several days.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> .......
> 
> Is there any indication than 9.1 is not rolling out anymore? My new TiVo HD has not gotten it after several days.


Yes. The number of new posters complaining about 9.1 bugs has diminished in the last few days so I assume the rollout has either slowed or stopped.


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## TracerBullet (Dec 17, 2004)

I called my cable company to hit my cards- ECM stayed at 0 while my EMM went up to 40, still no channels. Rebooted the unit, now both ECM and EMM are back to 0. Additionally, I have now lost ALL channels, even the unencrypted ones I was getting before.

I am fed up with this.

Edit: I called TiVo, who got me on a three-way call with my cable company and TiVo was able to work their magic and get all my channels back. Now let's hope they stay back.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> Those of you having problems, try this. Go into the diagnostics screen and browse down the information. The second page down should show the CableCard association for Tuner 0. It should be CableCard 2. The fourth page down should show the CableCard association for Tuner 1. It should be CableCard 1. If these are swapped, (Tuner 0 with CableCard 1 and Tuner 1 with CableCard 2), then physically shut down power to your TiVo for 15 seconds and then power it back up. After it comes back to life, check the diags again. If Tuner 0 is now with Card 2 and Tuner 1 is now with Card 1, you should be good to go. Check the tuning abilities of both cards.
> 
> (Note, take care how you check this. You may think you arre changing channels on Tuner 1 when in reality you are changing from Tuner 1 to Tuner 0 and then changing channels. To prevent this, tune one tuner to a specific channel and start recording the channel. Then switch to the other tuner and change its channels. To check the other tuner, start recording the channel on this tuner and switch back to the first tuner.)
> 
> ...


I don't have that information in my diagnostics screen. It has a CC serial number for each tuner in Hex but that's all. I jumped from the video signal was unavailable thread.


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## legendarybc (Dec 17, 2006)

Another 9.1 bug I noticed is:

While browsing the guide, you cannot choose a channel that has no guide data. For instance, my cable company just turned on TBSHD, and of course there is no guide data yet. But if you try to get to that channel via the guide, it will not respond. Instead, you have to choose another channel that has data and then get to it by pressing channel up or down. Anyone else running into this?


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## dzirpolo (Oct 14, 2001)

TracerBullet said:


> Edit: I called TiVo, who got me on a three-way call with my cable company and TiVo was able to work their magic and get all my channels back. Now let's hope they stay back.


Do you know what they did? I just had cables cards installed in my new HD Tivo and I only get basic cable and Local channels HD TV. Nothing above CH 27 analog or digital. Comcast could not figure it out and won't be back until Friday. I am not even on 9.1 yet.

Luckily my Series 3 is still working fine, even with 9.1. So I have not lost anything.

D


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## rdstoll (Oct 4, 2007)

Is there a way to prevent this from being downloaded? I'm still on 8.7.1 and from what I read here I don't want to get this 9.1. Will it automatically download if I do nothing? Should I just disconnect my USB wireless receiver?


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

rdstoll said:


> Is there a way to prevent this from being downloaded? I'm still on 8.7.1 and from what I read here I don't want to get this 9.1. Will it automatically download if I do nothing? Should I just disconnect my USB wireless receiver?


you should have two weeks of program guide data. That will certainly keep you from getting any software update. If there's nothing else crucial on the TiVo you use that requires networking, sounds like a solid idea.


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## TracerBullet (Dec 17, 2004)

dzirpolo said:


> Do you know what they did? I just had cables cards installed in my new HD Tivo and I only get basic cable and Local channels HD TV. Nothing above CH 27 analog or digital. Comcast could not figure it out and won't be back until Friday. I am not even on 9.1 yet.
> 
> Luckily my Series 3 is still working fine, even with 9.1. So I have not lost anything.
> 
> D


I do not. If I were you I'd call TiVo and they'll probably put you on a three-way with your cable company. I had called my cable company previously and asked them to send a hit to my cards (which didn't fix it).


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## dzirpolo (Oct 14, 2001)

TracerBullet said:


> I had called my cable company previously and asked them to send a hit to my cards (which didn't fix it).


Thanks.

Yeah, I worked with the tech and they could not get anyone in the main office that knew anything about cable cards. So after the tech left, he was actually pretty disappointed that he could not get it working for me, I called Comcast.

They sent hits to the card, no luck.

So I will try Tivo either tomorrow or next week. Otherwise wait until Friday for a tech to come out, call the main office, they fix my account, send the correct type of hit and it's fixed. "Magic"


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

this 9.1 fiasco is pretty typical of tivo: great concept, poor execution. The timing is really unfortunate as the holiday season is approaching fast.

how such a large corporation can roll - out a piece of critical software that cripples millions of their customers without half decent testing / QA is beyond me.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

qili said:


> ......that cripples millions of their customers without half decent testing / QA is beyond me.


Do you have data to back up the millions of crippled Tivo's number? my sample set of 2 in the house, and 4 friends, of which 3 have 9.1 show none "crippled"

I don't disagree this rollout was not smooth, but it's far from a fiasco rendering all Tivos usable only as doorstops.

Diane


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Do you have data to back up the millions of crippled Tivo's number? my sample set of 2 in the house, and 4 friends, of which 3 have 9.1 show none "crippled"
> 
> I don't disagree this rollout was not smooth, but it's far from a fiasco rendering all Tivos usable only as doorstops.
> 
> Diane


It might be useful to have a poll here find how many of the TCFers are impaired by this bug. Admittedly that's still not a scientific poll as it only samples TCFers, but it would still be interesting to see the results of it.


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## TracySMiller (Oct 14, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Do you have data to back up the millions of crippled Tivo's number? my sample set of 2 in the house, and 4 friends, of which 3 have 9.1 show none "crippled"
> 
> I don't disagree this rollout was not smooth, but it's far from a fiasco rendering all Tivos usable only as doorstops.
> 
> Diane


"Millions" MAY be overstating it, but it is a significant problem for a significant number of TIVO users. I know that from my own experience my TIVO (for which I paid $650 and a $299 subscription, plus another $200+ on eSata drive), which for the previous six months would reliably record what I asked, now has to be babysat with daily restarts just to make sure it fulfills its primary purpose.

I'm siding with the definition of "fiasco". It just hasn't affected everyone, and those folks should be grateful.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

TracySMiller said:


> which for the previous six months would reliably record what I asked, now has to be babysat with daily restarts just to make sure it fulfills its primary purpose.


in other words it's behaving a lot more like a Comcast DVR... 
ba da boomp.. I'm here all week folks!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> I don't have that information in my diagnostics screen. It has a CC serial number for each tuner in Hex but that's all. I jumped from the video signal was unavailable thread.


That doesn't sopund like the diagnostics screen. It sounds more like the CP or host / CC screen. There should be several pages of data. Note the tuner must be tuned to a digital stream or there will be no association at all.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

qili said:


> this 9.1 fiasco is pretty typical of tivo: great concept, poor execution. The timing is really unfortunate as the holiday season is approaching fast.
> 
> how such a large corporation can roll - out a piece of critical software that cripples millions of their customers without half decent testing / QA is beyond me.


That's an overstatement. First of all, we have no evidence TiVo knew of the bugs. Perhaps it's true they should expand their beta test pool. I do not know how many testers they have. I applied and was rejected.

Secondly, while this does impact basic functionality for some fraction - whether large or small, we don't know - of the TiVo owners, a company has to try to balance the cost of prolonging testing with the estimated impact of the inevitable bugs which will get released, compared with the additional revenue the planned release is expected to garner.

In this case in particular, the additional revenue directly related to the release is arguably zero. The amount of indirect revenue associated with any solution is a highly subjective. This being the case, the only guide TiVo has is the odds a serious bug may have slipped by testing, and those odds having been estimated as low, the company may have decided the risk of alienating customers from not releasing the new features was greater than that of alienating customers due to new bugs. After all, look how many people in this forum are criticizing TiVo for not yet having MRV and TiVo To Go, official e-SATA support, etc.

That said, I think some of us need to take a breath. I can assure you that unless TiVo intends to go bankrupt, they will fix these issues. Until then, the more serious ones seem to have a work-around, albeit an annoying one. I truly enjoy the services my TiVo DVRs provide me, but a failure on their part, or even a series of failures on their part is not the end of the world.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> That's an overstatement.


Not knowing how big it is, as you admitted down below, it is hard to say that it is an overstatement, isn't it?



> First of all, we have no evidence TiVo knew of the bugs.


wouldn't that be a bigger problem for TiVo customers, TiVo mgmt and TiVo shareholders?

to me, that's the root cause of this whole fiasco.



> a company has to try to balance the cost of prolonging testing with the estimated impact of the inevitable bugs which will get released, compared with the additional revenue the planned release is expected to garner.


bugs are inevitable. However, I would presume that most businesses are competent enough to know what they are doing and do enough QA to make sure that their software "upgrades" don't render their own products useless or non-functional.

to me, that's just so basic.



> those odds having been estimated as low,


i hope they fire the person or persons responsible for such an estimate, and establish a new process to "estimate" those odds more accurately going forward.



> I can assure you that unless TiVo intends to go bankrupt, they will fix these issues.


first of all, I am not so sure on what basis you are so confident, especially given the fact that you don't even know if TiVo was aware of those issues.

2ndly, TiVo clearly has the desire to fix the bugs ASAP. But do they have the ability to do so? We shall see.



> but a failure on their part, or even a series of failures on their part is not the end of the world.


Arguably that is subjective and varies from person to person.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

There is a poll for the lost channel/CC bug. It's been about 60/40 with 60% not experiencing the problem (yet) and 40% having the problem.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369192

There was already a discussion in this thread about QA (or the lack of QA) at Tivo with new major releases of software. They are usually released with some problems, and are usually followed up with a minor release that fixes some of the problems. We have no way of knowing if Tivo knew about this particular problem before they released 9.1 or not.

I think it's pretty clear that for those of us that are unfortunate enough to have this problem that we're pretty frustrated. It's not like there's a simple workaround for it and if we travel or aren't around when the problem occurs, we simply lose recordings. Compare this to various other bugs, like the menu bugs, slow menu response, tivo not remembering where you were in the SP or Todo lists, which are all very annoying, but none of those render the box useless.

-David


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> First of all, we have no evidence TiVo knew of the bugs.


If they didn't know of the bugs their QA department is incredibly incompetent. If they did know of the bugs and released it in the condition it is in then their QA department doesn't have the guts to do their job and reject the software as unfit for distribution.



lrhorer said:


> Secondly, while this does impact basic functionality for some fraction - whether large or small, we don't know - of the TiVo owners, a company has to try to balance the cost of prolonging testing with the estimated impact of the inevitable bugs which will get released, compared with the additional revenue the planned release is expected to garner.


And what is the cost of a blown reputation?


lrhorer said:


> That said, I think some of us need to take a breath. I can assure you that unless TiVo intends to go bankrupt, they will fix these issues. Until then, the more serious ones seem to have a work-around, albeit an annoying one. I truly enjoy the services my TiVo DVRs provide me, but a failure on their part, or even a series of failures on their part is not the end of the world.


Maybe that should be the TiVo motto - "Don't worry about it, we'll fix it soon." I've sure been seeing that one a lot for the past year, especially in this forum.


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> Do you have data to back up the millions of crippled Tivo's number? my sample set of 2 in the house, and 4 friends, of which 3 have 9.1 show none "crippled"
> 
> I don't disagree this rollout was not smooth, but it's far from a fiasco rendering all Tivos usable only as doorstops.
> 
> Diane


Well, let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant, eh? 



dianebrat said:


> in other words it's behaving a lot more like a Comcast DVR...
> ba da boomp.. I'm here all week folks!


Nice. Luckily I no longer have that problem. :up:


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## jmatero (Apr 9, 2003)

odd. Got 9.1 here. Verizon FiOS... not a single issue.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

jmatero said:


> odd. Got 9.1 here. Verizon FiOS... not a single issue.


not odd at all: unpredictable software / hardware behavior -> aka bugs, lots of it.

a good piece of software doesn't just work, it does so consistently.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

jmatero said:


> odd. Got 9.1 here. Verizon FiOS... not a single issue.


You're in the 60% of people that responded to the poll that don't have the problem or haven't seen the problem yet.

The only thing that might be odd is that you may have replied without reading the entire thread. 

-David


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## tldmat (Jul 2, 2006)

Soapm said:


> I have to side with the other fellers here, if this was the case it should have been released as a beta/you may find bugs program and not a general release.
> 
> However, I wonder how much our hacks have to do with the problems? It would be nice to know the number of stock Tivo's having problems compared to ones that have been hacked in any way.


No hacks, 3 units and both Dual Tuners exhibit the same problem of showing conflicts that don't exist, just screwy behavior that so far stumps tech support. Today we tried to transfer a show from one to another and all three show the other units on our network but all say they do not contain any shows. At first we freaked thinking everything had been erased.

This was not released as a beta, it was forced on us without notice and I have had a S1 from back when Sony built them and this is by far the worst upgrade (used loosely) I have ever experienced.

Every time I call support they tell me this is the first they have heard of the problem yet I find it here on the forum. I'm collecting support ticket numbers.

Has anyone ever received any explanation and apology from TiVo?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

tldmat said:


> Every time I call support they tell me this is the first they have heard of the problem yet I find it here on the forum.


I think I recall somebody earlier in this thread (or maybe a different 9.1 bug thread), saying that when he called in to report the bug, he got resistence, but after after being persistent for quite awhile, he finally beat the CSR into submission and got an admission that there was a bug, and that the engineers were working on a fix.

I wish their customer support wouldn't behave in ways force us users to get rude with them.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

timckelley said:


> I wish their customer support wouldn't behave in ways force us users to get rude with them.


I agree. :up: I'm guessing the mindset is that they (TiVo) want to explore all of the other possibilities first.

During "normal" time periods TiVo CSRs field calls and a majority of problems are likely caused by something local. For arguments sake a lot of what people are reporting could be caused by something other than the recent upgrade. If the problem turns out to actually be local (cable, signal, bad A/V or network connections, etc.) and their first response was, "Yes, we know it's a problem but we don't have a fix right now", the local problem would never get fixed...no matter what they did in the future. So I suspect that theyre trained to address any other problems first.

I guess I can't blame them for employing that tactic when things are "normal", however they just rolled out a software upgrade. If theres a sudden firestorm of protests; a majority of them about the same issues, you'd think that they'd have a "script" to quickly deal with them. Either admit that there is an issue and that they're working on it or pass the call along to someone that has more knowledge. I'm a passionate advocate of excellence in customer service and playing dumb is...well...dumb! Its bad P.R. and truly bad business. I still believe theyll get these issues resolved, but it seems that even Indias call support centers are doing a better job these days. Shame on TiVo! 

I also still think that anyone having problems needs to call TiVo and open a casedont take no or were working on it for an answer.


----------



## qili (May 31, 2006)

tldmat said:


> This was not released as a beta,


this POS (piece of software) sounds like a pre-alpha release,


----------



## qili (May 31, 2006)

richsadams said:


> dont take no or were working on it for an answer.


when a customer has to be prepared to fight a company representatitive in order to help that company with its products, there is something seriously wrong about that company.

TiVo continues to think it is the darling of everyone and continues to treat its customers as a know-nothing Joe. They should be reminded that a) their very survival is at stake, b) there is no 1999, and c) there are tons of choices out there.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

richsadams said:


> I also still think that anyone having problems needs to call TiVo and open a case&#8230;don't take "no" or "we're working on it" for an answer.


I have the CC card issue and I WON'T be calling in:

1) I don't have the time or patience to deal with level 1 tech support
2) The problem has already been reported and escalated by several other people.

More reports of the same thing aren't going to help. If the TiVo developers can't duplicate (and fix) this, they shouldn't be TiVo developers.

What are we supposed to do if we don't take "we're working on it" for an answer? Cancel service? I have lifetime on my S3.

I called in with "poison channel" bug that locked up my TiVo fairly consistently. Of course, TiVo had never heard of it, and the CSR was convinced there's no way I could be watching an HD channel without an HD TV. He certainly didn't understand how I could be using composite output but on an SDTV fixed at 480i. He spewed all sorts of gobbledygook that made absolutely no sense in the context of the problem and basically told me to stop watching HD channels until I got an HDTV because it shouldn't work anyway and the TiVo doesn't support it  . In the end, it got "escalated" to engineering and I never heard from them again.

Then I posted here and found out it was not only a common problem in this area with that channel, but it also occured whether it was received via OTA or ATSC. So I simply locked out that channel for the time being so TiVo wouldn't try recording suggestions off it.

9.1 finally fixed that problem, almost a year later.

My conclusion: If something gets escalated to the right people, it will eventually get fixed, though you may never hear back. Also, the level 1 CSRs are not only useless, they get in the way of actually solving non-trivial problems.


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## chrisguerin (Jan 13, 2007)

I finally got 9.1 last week. Now, whenever I change the channel, the video stutters for a few seconds and the audio drops out. Everything seems to be fine after that, with only the occasional audio dropout. Restarted it a couple of times, but nothing has fixed it. I also had the CC 2 menu popup unexpectedly after changing to HBOHD. Resolved after 30 seconds, but it has me worried. Calling Tivo today.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Saturn said:


> I have the CC card issue and I WON'T be calling in:
> 
> 1) I don't have the time or patience to deal with level 1 tech support
> 2) The problem has already been reported and escalated by several other people.
> ...


You make some good points and that's the only part I'd disagree with. Logically if there are 2.5 to 3 million plus subscribers and only three people reported a problem, I suspect that there wouldn't be a great deal of activity in the development department to do anything about it, at least right away. If 300, 3000 or (pick a number) people reported the same thing then there would obviously be an impact.



qili said:


> when a customer has to be prepared to fight a company representatitive in order to help that company with its products, there is something seriously wrong about that company.


Agreed.



qili said:


> TiVo continues to think it is the darling of everyone and continues to treat its customers as a know-nothing Joe. They should be reminded that a) their very survival is at stake, b) there is no 1999, and c) there are tons of choices out there.


 A)	TiVo's very survival hangs in the balance because of some bugs in an upgrade?  Okay. But a quick search shows that there were a flurry of complaints when v8.3 and v8.1 were released (as well as prior releases) and even more about the THD and they seemed to have survived those. (I'm not defending their track record mind you.) But who knows? This might be the last straw for some I suppose. But tens or hundreds of thousands? Probably not.
B)	Not sure what that means
C)	Really? Besides the limited DVR Ive taken the time to create in one of my computers and the POS DVRs cablecos are offering I really dont see anything remotely like TiVo out there. But maybe Ive been shopping in the wrong stores. 

Im really not here to claim that TiVo CS or products are anywhere near perfectbelieve me, I understand the frustration and anger that comes with CE products that dont do what theyre supposed to do. I also understand that some TiVo folks read some of these threads now and then. I just think that a collection of whiney "TiVo sucks" and "I don't like them either" posts are pretty useless. Sharing concrete details about the bugs, perhaps some advice on what can be done about them (if anything) and making TiVo aware of the situation is a bit more productive IMHO.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chrisguerin said:


> I finally got 9.1 last week. Now, whenever I change the channel, the video stutters for a few seconds and the audio drops out. Everything seems to be fine after that, with only the occasional audio dropout after that. Restarted it a couple of times, but nothing has fixed it. I also had the CC 2 menu popup unexpectedly after changing to HBOHD. Resolved after 30 seconds, but it has me worried. Calling Tivo today.


Thanks for the productive post and action on your part. :up: Hopefully TiVo will step up to the plate. Let us know what they have to say.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

richsadams said:


> C)	Really? Besides the limited DVR Ive taken the time to create in one of my computers and the POS DVRs cablecos are offering I really dont see anything remotely like TiVo out there. But maybe Ive been shopping in the wrong stores.


I guess the fact that you don't find other alternatives does in no way, shape or form suggests that other customres cannot find alternatives to TV.

the entire DVR market is about 70 million units worldwide, vs. 4 million TiVo subscribers. TiVo has 5% of the market.

the annual DVR sale sia bout 20+ million units a year, vs. 160K subscribers per quarter for TiVo, not counting their churns. TiVo has 3% of the new unit market.

During its early days, TiVo had 100% of the market, until replaytv came along which just died not too long ago.

That should highlight for the TiVo folks the urgency needed to ramp up their business.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

qili said:


> I guess the fact that you don't find other alternatives does in no way, shape or form suggests that other customres cannot find alternatives to TV.


 Im not sure what you mean by alternatives to TV. I was only talking about alternatives to a DVR/PVR like TiVo , not build your own units, etc. which the general consumer isnt likely to do.



qili said:


> the entire DVR market is about 70 million units worldwide, vs. 4 million TiVo subscribers. TiVo has 5% of the market. <snip>


 Wouldn't U.S. stats apply exclusively since TiVo isnt sold anywhere (at this time) but the U.S.? I don't believe DVR's from other countries work here do they (PAL Vs NTSC)? They certainly aren't readily available at retail CE stores.

AFAIK cableco DVR's aren't sold anywhere either and as you pointed out Replay, TiVo's only true competitor failed a while back. Apple TV is the only other stand-alone quasi-DVR I've seen. Are you aware of others for sale? So shouldnt comparisons be apples to apples (forgive the pun)?



qili said:


> That should highlight for the TiVo folks the urgency needed to ramp up their business.


 Agreed. :up: I think were mostly on the same pageI just dont believe this most recent software snafu will sink TiVo is all.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

richsadams said:


> I just dont believe this most recent software snafu will sink TiVo is all.


very rarely a single event will kill a company. However, the 9.1 fiasco is a reflection of poor management and poor process management on the part of Tivo.

either one of them will easily kill a company, no matter how great it is.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

richsadams said:


> So shouldnt comparisons be apples to apples (forgive the pun)?


TiVo would have happily competed globally if they had the resources and opportunity. They are mostly confined to the US because of their inability or unwillingness to go overseas.

The point of having the data for you is that the world has changed from the late 1990s when TiVo was THE player in the DVR market. Now, they are one of the "also-runs" in a market that has largely left TiVo behind in terms of market share and profits.

Part of TiVo's struggle for survival is that there are tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from. Those alternatives have made TiVo's life that much more difficult, the consumers that much easier.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

richsadams said:


> Wouldn't U.S. stats apply exclusively since TiVo isnt sold anywhere (at this time) but the U.S.?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=275076



These videos are fun to watch BTW.  
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tivo+taiwan&search=Search

http://www.tgc-taiwan.com.tw/


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=275076
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, saw that one...plus they're working on an Australian/NZ deal too. They still support TiVo in the UK, just stopped selling them there.

Having lived in other parts of the world I've come to find that television is a much less centric part of people's day-to-day lives than in the U.S. Mostly the result of high prices for CE products, terrible local programs and programming, lack of variety and government interference. Were I TiVo I'd stay focused on the largest TV consumer market in the world...the U.S. and not even worry about the dealing with the nightmares that are "television" found elsewhere.

Of course I'd include our Canadian brothers. 

P.S. The videos are great! :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

qili said:


> Part of TiVo's struggle for survival is that there are tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from. Those alternatives have made TiVo's life that much more difficult, the consumers that much easier.


 Okay...it's a dead horse at this point...but I still don't understand what the "tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from" besides TiVo and the awful cableco DVR's are.  Can you enlighten me/us on just a few pounds or two?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

richsadams said:


> Okay...it's a dead horse at this point...but I still don't understand what the "tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from" besides TiVo and the awful cableco DVR's are.  Can you enlighten me/us on just a few pounds or two?


The awful cable DVRs have a huge advantage when it comes to ease of purchase, lack of commitments periods and cable service compatibility.

The DVR market is not demand- driven, it is driven by the fact that cable companies have started pushing their DVRs to consumers who rarely or never even record shows on them. That's what TiVo is up against - and it's not an easy market to compete in.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

MickeS said:


> The awful cable DVRs have a huge advantage when it comes to ease of purchase, lack of commitments periods and cable service compatibility.
> 
> The DVR market is not demand- driven, it is driven by the fact that cable companies have started pushing their DVRs to consumers who rarely or never even record shows on them. That's what TiVo is up against - and it's not an easy market to compete in.


Agreed. But we had several of those Motorola HD DVR boxes...worst POS ever. You get what you pay for.  Tiny HDD, nightmare GUI, and missed all sorts of recordings not to mention being a fire hazard. We returned four of them to Comcast in three months time after they all malfunctioned one way or another and got an S3...never looked back. 

Good point though. :up:


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

richsadams said:


> ...but I still don't understand what the "tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from" besides TiVo and the awful cableco DVR's are.  Can you enlighten me/us on just a few pounds or two?


Think of Netflix (DVD rental or instant view), Blockbuster, XBOX 360 video download, iTunes downloads & AppleTV, TV over IP (with recording ability)... Obviously, these services are not competing for "recording" (with the possible exception for iTunes and TV over IP), they are competing for having people watch a show/movie/whatever.

To be honest, if I had to chose again I would not get the S3. Instead, I would get the latest HD PVR from the Cable Co and increase my Netflix subscription. I would also look into AppleTV. Probably I would still save money in monthly service fees. I say this purely based on the technical problems I have had with the S3 so far (pixelation, audio drop, losing CC). I'm not even sure if I would consider the THD as it seems to be flawed as the S3 is. I do love the concept of Tivo, however. When I got the S3 initially I was actually amazed I had not bought a Tivo sooner (the HD compatibility pushed me over).

Please note, I don't mean this to be a provocative post. Apparently there are many happy Tivo users out there. I am just not one of them. As a S3 user obviously I hope they get their act together, and deliver to me the "promised" services. For now I am not recommending Tivo to friends & family.


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## PSUMattDE (Aug 16, 2007)

And while you're at it - fix these damn audio dropouts!!!!


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

richsadams said:


> Okay...it's a dead horse at this point...but I still don't understand what the "tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from" besides TiVo and the awful cableco DVR's are.  Can you enlighten me/us on just a few pounds or two?


I believe I have answered this very question a while back, in an response to you.

In case you missed it, here is a shortened version of it. Please let me know which part you would like me to elaborate on for the 3rd time.



qili said:


> I guess the fact that you don't find other alternatives does in no way, shape or form suggests that other customres cannot find alternatives to TV.
> 
> the entire DVR market is about 70 million units worldwide, vs. 4 million TiVo subscribers. TiVo has 5% of the market.
> 
> ...


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## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

Count me in as having problems, although not insurmountable - for tthe moment.

For me and my 2 S2s (540 models), my existing wishlists are affected by 'never reaching the end.' What seems to be the end is a continuous repeat of a movie title on channels I don't receive. Scrolling down just repeats the pattern, never stops.

Found programs in all of my wishlists are duplicated, or triplicated, or more.

Even before this "upgrade" - I noticed that my onscreen schedule is duplicating some channels - with the extra channel number with an HD appended. Maybe this is irrelevant for the 9.1 problem.

Personally, I would very much prefer that I had the power to skip, or opt-out, of installing a firmware upgrade/update so I could at least prevent myself from having these heaaches that others are clearly discussing here.

Tivo should not be deploying such upgrades when they have not been fully tested. THey are ruining their reputation by doing this.

They could improve things by giving us the ability to skip such upgrades - after all, I bought my hardware, they are not leased.


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

painkiller said:


> They could improve things by giving us the ability to skip such upgrades - after all, I bought my hardware, they are not leased.


I guess that's not the "TiVo way".

It is not that TiVo does NOT know what's going on. there are TiVo employees on this very forum.

The fact that TiVo has opted to be silent here speaks volume about how mgmt runs TiVo.

Not to mention that TiVo CSRs continue to tell people reporting issues with 9.1 that those issues don't really exist.

that's why competiton is wonderful: it kills the company that doens't care about its customers.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

qili said:


> I believe I have answered this very question a while back, in an response to you.
> 
> In case you missed it, here is a shortened version of it. Please let me know which part you would like me to elaborate on for the 3rd time.
> 
> ...


That's great and all, but you're not actually answering the question, you're spouting numbers without product data attached, and you refer to "annual DVR sales is about 20+ million units a year" It's not the cabelco's to the consumer, because they don't sell you the unit, and if you're counting sales from the manufacturer to the cableco, that's not the same to the consumer.

I see the following competitors to Tivo available to the consumer:

Tivo themselves, and older units
The just released Comcast/Tivo partnership
Cableco DVRs (include FIOS)
Satellite DVRs
PC-based PVRs
(on the list out of respect) old Replay TV units

I'm just not seeing the "ton" of Tivo competition other then the competition from the delivery service providers.

Diane


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> That's great and all, but you're not actually answering the question, you're spouting numbers without product data attached, and you refer to "annual DVR sales is about 20+ million units a year" It's not the cabelco's to the consumer, because they don't sell you the unit, and if you're counting sales from the manufacturer to the cableco, that's not the same to the consumer.
> 
> I see the following competitors to Tivo available to the consumer:
> 
> ...


 :up: That's pretty much my point exactly. Those and the Apple TV product are the only actual options to TiVo readily available to the typical U.S. consumer that I know of. Add in the fact that one would choose between cableco or satellite and that narrows the "tons of options" down to about 3 at most. If you're only using OTA that makes it what, 1 (not including TiVo)?

Okay...'nuff said.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mvnuenen said:


> bThink of Netflix (DVD rental or instant view), Blockbuster, XBOX 360 video download, iTunes downloads & AppleTV, TV over IP (with recording ability)... Obviously, these services are not competing for "recording" (with the possible exception for iTunes and TV over IP), they are competing for having people watch a show/movie/whatever.


Agreed that those are entertainment options, but I was specifically talking about the "tons of options to TiVo" to which the OP opined. Apple TV would be one, but still not as robust. The rest don't have the capabilities that TiVo has and wouldn't really be an option IMO.



mvnuenen said:


> To be honest, if I had to chose again I would not get the S3. Instead, I would get the latest HD PVR from the Cable Co and increase my Netflix subscription. I would also look into AppleTV. Probably I would still save money in monthly service fees. I say this purely based on the technical problems I have had with the S3 so far (pixelation, audio drop, losing CC). I'm not even sure if I would consider the THD as it seems to be flawed as the S3 is. I do love the concept of Tivo, however. When I got the S3 initially I was actually amazed I had not bought a Tivo sooner (the HD compatibility pushed me over).
> 
> Please note, I don't mean this to be a provocative post. Apparently there are many happy Tivo users out there. I am just not one of them. As a S3 user obviously I hope they get their act together, and deliver to me the "promised" services. For now I am not recommending Tivo to friends & family.


 I feel badly for everyone experiencing problems with their TiVo's...it does indeed sucketh. All of ours are doing fine for the most part since the upgrade; although I am noticing a few more momentary macroblocking episodes and a couple of audio issues than before. However I'm not sure if I can blame TiVo or the local networks that can't seem to get HD broadcasting to always work properly...or Comcast as they're always messing around with our cable system in the local area. In any case it seems like there are a few more glitches than before.

Like I said, I hope TiVo steps up to the plate and own this, then get it fixed ASAP.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Getting back on topic ... 

So, over the weekend, there was a power interruption late at night, and after the power was restored I checked the binding of tuner to cc, and it was tuner 1 to cc2, and tuner 2 to cc1, which was the configuration that was suggested as a workaround earlier in this thread.

It stayed up until last night during prime time and I noticed a black screen. One of the CCs/tuners could not tune to any digital channels. So I did a reset, of course.

So, at least for me, the suggested workaround didn't work.

-David


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> That's great and all, but you're not actually answering the question, you're spouting numbers without product data attached, and you refer to "annual DVR sales is about 20+ million units a year" It's not the cabelco's to the consumer, because they don't sell you the unit, and if you're counting sales from the manufacturer to the cableco, that's not the same to the consumer.
> 
> I see the following competitors to Tivo available to the consumer:
> 
> ...


I don't see those as true TiVo competitors, as they don't come in a TiVo like box, they don't have TiVo like remote control, and they don't get sold to a TiVo subscriber, etc.

You can always find differences between like products, by the very definition of "like products". The point is that those POS cableco DVRs provide for similar functionalities as your TiVo. They don't provide all the functions that TiVo has, and vice versa.

so as much as you dislike it, those POS cableco DVRs compete with your mighty TiVo, and are winning the battle for the mass.

You don't think so? Well, I guess you have to tell TiVo that they have committed a misrepresentation in their SEC filings where they openly disclose to their shareholders that they believe cableco DVRs compete with their TiVo offerings.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

qili said:


> I don't see those as true TiVo competitors, as they don't come in a TiVo like box, they don't have TiVo like remote control, and they don't get sold to a TiVo subscriber, etc.
> 
> so as much as you dislike it, those POS cableco DVRs compete with your mighty TiVo, and are winning the battle for the mass.


qili, this is ridiculous.. I just gave you a list of all the Tivo competitors that I could think of, and you dismiss them.

Yet you are the one that said:


qili said:


> Part of TiVo's struggle for survival is that there are tons of alternatives for consumers to choose from. Those alternatives have made TiVo's life that much more difficult, the consumers that much easier.


And we're saying "so tell us what the competitors are!" yet my list? according to you, it's not them, so who are these mystery "tons of alternatives" if they're not the competition? (even though you refer to later in the next paragraph as "competitors")

In the words of the immortal Cosmo Kramer "I'm out"


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

Once again Diane, you're guilty of letting facts get in the way of a rant...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> qili, this is ridiculous. <snip>


 *qili's* posts remind me of one of my favorite movies, _Cool Hand Luke_...



> What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men.


 ~Captain, Road Prison 36​


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Let's stop bickering folks. People that have the problem are upset enough as it is. Some people are just being silly, and yet some of you keep responding to them. Isn't that sort of like "taking the bait"?



I just lost the tuner/cc again. It tuned to The Tonight Show on the local NBC HD feed and there was the black screen. Tried changing channels .. nothing on any digital or HD channel, but the analog channels worked.

At this point, I've lost count of the number of times I've hit the bug.

If you haven't read the 9.2 thread .. read it. It may fix this problem. Unfortunately, it's only in a limited trial now. At least there's hope ...

-David

PS: The reset just finished. I can't believe how good that picture HD picture looks.

PPS: I will be really happy when I get 9.2 if it fixes this problem and I can make a final post to this thread. Probably all will be forgiven until ... (SDV goes live on Maui? Another update screws me again? ...)


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## qili (May 31, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> qili, this is ridiculous.. I just gave you a list of all the Tivo competitors that I could think of, and you dismiss them.


I was trying to make an exaggeration on that notion that cableco DVRs aren't TiVo competitors, something that one other poster postulated and TiVo themselves disputed.

Guess it didn't work out as I intended.

Still, I stuggle to understand how some avid TiVo fans think they know more about TiVo than TiVo does. If so, TiVo is truly doing a terrible job covering the market,


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

Came home to black screen on cbs tonight. I guess no Survivor:China or CSI or Viva Laughlin for me. I'll have to unbox the first two. I didn't see the third one there.

So ... I check network status and what do you know ...

pending restart ... preparing service update ..............

I actually entered my TSN on the priority page yesterday, just in case it did something and I see they changed it today so it's for both 9.1 and 9.2 now.

-David


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

Icarus said:


> Came home to black screen on cbs tonight. I guess no Survivor:China or CSI or Viva Laughlin for me. I'll have to unbox the first two. I didn't see the third one there.
> 
> So ... I check network status and what do you know ...
> 
> ...


Can we start a "Tivo: 9.2 what the hell were you thinking?" thread now?


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

I just got 9.1 yesterday.
My S3 Tivo lost its name.
Have not noticed any other problems yet but I have Motorola CC's.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Joybob said:


> Can we start a "Tivo: 9.2 what the hell were you thinking?" thread now?


Why? The OP had troubles _before _ he received v9.2.j., not after.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

CheezWiz said:


> I just got 9.1 yesterday.
> My S3 Tivo lost its name.
> Have not noticed any other problems yet but I have Motorola CC's.


Lost it's name on your tivo.com account? That would be very unusual and a first. 

S3's were never named on the System Info screen. Pony mentioned that that will be addressed soon.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

painkiller said:


> Count me in as having problems, although not insurmountable - for tthe moment.
> 
> For me and my 2 S2s (540 models), my existing wishlists are affected by 'never reaching the end.' What seems to be the end is a continuous repeat of a movie title on channels I don't receive. Scrolling down just repeats the pattern, never stops.
> 
> ...


Painkiller, this is very odd behavior. Can you share more specifics on this issue? If you don't mind sharing your cable lineup and an example wishlist that results in this behavior, that would be helpful. Also the make and model number for your DVR (not TSN...don't post that publically).

The fact that your channel listings were duplicated before the update is strange as well, and could be a contributing factor. Knowing your cable provider and lineup will help us narrow down what is happening. Thanks.

Pony


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

richsadams said:


> S3's were never named on the System Info screen. Pony mentioned that that will be addressed soon.


Perhaps TivoHDs were never named, but my S3 was until it wasn't.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Perhaps TivoHDs were never named, but my S3 was until it wasn't.


Hmmm, ours never was and there are many posts that talked about this issue in the past...and acknowledged by TiVo.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

richsadams said:


> Hmmm, ours never was and there are many posts that talked about this issue in the past...and acknowledged by TiVo.


It definately a problem _now_, but not before.

I could be wrong (I usually am), but here is a snapshot of an S3 from last year with his name ("S3") on it.

The Original Terabtye Tivo...









And MegaZone's S3...









My own image doesn't have it but I think that was because I just restored it from a backup at the time I took the pic...









Is making me doubt myself though.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> It definately a problem _now_, but not before.
> 
> I could be wrong (I usually am), but here is a snapshot of an S3 from last year with his name ("S3") on it.
> 
> ...


That is interesting. :up: Well, Pony said a fix is coming...someday.

I had to use Firefox to open the last page of this thread to read your post...for some reason it was crashing IE. I took the links to the photos out in my reply. Wonder if anyone else ran into that?


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

richsadams said:


> Lost it's name on your tivo.com account? That would be very unusual and a first.
> 
> S3's were never named on the System Info screen. Pony mentioned that that will be addressed soon.


Mine was most certainly named!
HDTivo showed up on the account info screen and on Tivo Desktop.
Now I get the "Name this..." message on the account info screen and "DVR-078f" from the Tivo desktop software....


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## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

TivoPony, thanks for noticing.

I'm a Directv subscriber and have two Tivo TCD540040 models that are affected.

Here are some screen pics (unfortunately, I'm lousy with a camera, hope these are good enough).


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

painkiller said:


> TivoPony, thanks for noticing.
> 
> I'm a Directv subscriber and have two Tivo TCD540040 models that are affected.
> 
> Here are some screen pics (unfortunately, I'm lousy with a camera, hope these are good enough).


I'm seeing not duplicate listings, but rather two different channels listed for each number (the regular version of a channel, and the HD version of a channel). Is that correct?

When you go to your channel list under Settings, what is listed for those numbers? Do both channels appear?

Thanks,
Pony


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> Perhaps TivoHDs were never named, but my S3 was until it wasn't.


Same here, Greg. Mine was "S3" until 9.1, then it became "name this tune..."


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## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

TivoPony,

Yes, certain channels appear twice (not all). Predominantly I am seeing TNT, TBS, SCIFI, A&E, FX and likely some others as two channels in the guide.

For example, 248 is shown twice but the call letters are FX and FXHD.

As i indicated before, these were showing prior to the 9.1 update. But since I have no idea how other Tivo owners in my area that have Directv may see their guides, I thought I'd mention it.

I do not have hdtv's (yet) and when I scroll through the guide from an HD to adjacent (same channel number) there is no difference in the programming and selecting an HD version still shows me the regular channel video (FX, TBS, TNT...).

If I were to guess about this, I'd say Directv is preparing a changeover somehow sometime.

But it will be sometime for me before I switch to hdtv/digital televisions.
(And, in Directv's case, I would have to change my dish, receivers and tvs. Not likely until I have to.)

Despite this situation, you can see from my wishlists that I do indeed have a problem there. And when I prepared to take snaphots last nite, the one I have setup for scifi movies went blank and said there was no data to show me. After I backed out of that wishlist and went to another menu, then came back and tried that same wishlist again - then I got the data...

Screwy.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

painkiller,

How long have you had 9.1 installed on your S2 Tivos?


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## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

Well, I can't be positive (I just checked my account status on both machines) but I believe it has been about a week, maybe a little longer.

I don't see anywhere it tells me when the last update (of the software version) occurred. It does tell me the last successful transfer/attempt at updating the guide data (which was yesterday).

If someone knows that this data is in there, maybe they can enlighten me.


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## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

Tivopony,

Just wanted to let you know I have been further examining my wishlists.

I have a collection of lists such as Movies/Comedy, Movies/Horror, Movies/SciFi and others. I deleted all of my originals and re-created them to find that they now take on the appearance - Movies:SciFi (no slash).

When I rerun the wishlists to find upcoming shows, I notice that I still have a "repeating" effect - but I now notice two more things about this problem I hadn't noticed before.

One, this "repeating" effect only seems to happen when it finds 200 or more upcoming programs. Below this count, I do not see this repeating problem.

Additionally, while I had thought that is 'never-ending' that is not the case. The "repeating" seems to have a constant pattern (regardless of which wishlist) as soon as it hits a channel number with the same call letters as one of my local channels (WNUV in my case). My local channel for WNUV is 54, but seems to be replicated around 380, and I think, 910 in the channel list. This is not identical to the pictures I uploaded where the repeating program is indicating channels 101, 334, 580, 800 - but I notice the consistency of the call letters, if that tells one anything.

If I hold down the channel advance on the remote, I eventually get past this "block" of repetitive program on these same channels (same date/time as well) and continue with found programs until reaching the end of the found items.

I have verified this on several wishlists that find 200 or more programs.

Hope this helps.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

painkiller said:


> Tivopony,
> 
> Just wanted to let you know I have been further examining my wishlists.
> 
> ...


Thanks! This kind of insight is incredibly useful. I've passed it on to the developers.

Pony


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## kubitron (Oct 23, 2007)

Ok. So I am wondering if people have reported the following problem: I have an S3 with a 1 terabyte internal upgrade. This disk is full (hence a lot of recordings) -- both HD and SD. It has two cable cards with Comcast service. I believe that they are Moto cards, but not sure (not at home right now). 

The problem is that ever since 9.1, my Tivo gets into these modes where it completely ignores the remote. This is intermittent. When it happens, the tivo will require many keystrokes to do simple things like go to the Tivo main screen (TIVO button), move up and down the "now playing list", etc. When watching a program, the navigation buttons may be missed, pretty annoying if I end up going too far because I can't stop a fast forward. This is really frustrating and is clearly new behavior.

Note that I often have HD programs recording, but I haven't yet seen a pattern in this regard (keystroke slowdown doesn't seem to be related). Also, I believe that I have seen this to a much lesser extent with the previous release, but it seems to happen quite frequently now. One thing that I can say is that it is more prevalent when the Tivo user interface has been idle for a while. Could it need to be swapped in?


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

I got 9.1 and my S3 is exhibiting the same annoying delay in the 30-sec skip. This is annoying but manageable however, since 9.1 I've gotten a really bad bug that I'm not sure if it has been reported:

If I leave the S3 for a day or two after being away for the weekend, when I come back the S3 is completely locked up. Any button I push on the remote only results in a tivo drum "boom" alert sound. Nothing happens. When I push the buttons on the face of the unit, same thing. Nothing happens except for the bad drum sound. The S3 is completely locked up. The only way to "fix" the situation is to unplug the unit and reboot.

This is an unhacked S3, Comcast cable cards.

This is a really bad update. Can the Tivo staff people here just re-release 9.0 and call it 9.3? I promise we'll all forget that 9.1 ever happened. Honest.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

kubitron said:


> Ok. So I am wondering if people have reported the following problem: I have an S3 with a 1 terabyte internal upgrade. This disk is full (hence a lot of recordings) -- both HD and SD. It has two cable cards with Comcast service. I believe that they are Moto cards, but not sure (not at home right now).
> 
> The problem is that ever since 9.1, my Tivo gets into these modes where it completely ignores the remote. This is intermittent. When it happens, the tivo will require many keystrokes to do simple things like go to the Tivo main screen (TIVO button), move up and down the "now playing list", etc. When watching a program, the navigation buttons may be missed, pretty annoying if I end up going too far because I can't stop a fast forward. This is really frustrating and is clearly new behavior.
> 
> Note that I often have HD programs recording, but I haven't yet seen a pattern in this regard (keystroke slowdown doesn't seem to be related). Also, I believe that I have seen this to a much lesser extent with the previous release, but it seems to happen quite frequently now. One thing that I can say is that it is more prevalent when the Tivo user interface has been idle for a while. Could it need to be swapped in?


I know this may seem like a bonehead suggestion, but I've seen this happen before. Your symptoms have all the earmarks of remote control batteries that need replacing.

Other than that you might see if a reboot (unplug TiVo for 10 to 15 seconds and plug it back in) might help.

Just a couple of thoughts.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

inaka said:


> I got 9.1 and my S3 is exhibiting the same annoying delay in the 30-sec skip. This is annoying but manageable however, since 9.1 I've gotten a really bad bug that I'm not sure if it has been reported:
> 
> If I leave the S3 for a day or two after being away for the weekend, when I come back the S3 is completely locked up. Any button I push on the remote only results in a tivo drum "boom" alert sound. Nothing happens. When I push the buttons on the face of the unit, same thing. Nothing happens except for the bad drum sound. The S3 is completely locked up. The only way to "fix" the situation is to unplug the unit and reboot.
> 
> ...


You can sign up for a priority download of the next software version (v9.2.j) by clicking here.

BTW, there never was a v9.0 and the next full version will be v9.2


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

richsadams said:


> You can sign up for a priority download of the next software version (v9.2.j) by clicking here.
> 
> BTW, there never was a v9.0 and the next full version will be v9.2


Thanks, I already signed up for this.
Hopefully it will fix this issue.

Seriously though, with all the problems I'm reading here and experiencing myself, Tivo should just go BACK to the previous version and start over. It's a Tivo afterall, most people don't even know the version number as long as things work smoothly.


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## kubitron (Oct 23, 2007)

richsadams said:


> I know this may seem like a bonehead suggestion, but I've seen this happen before. Your symptoms have all the earmarks of remote control batteries that need replacing.
> 
> Other than that you might see if a reboot (unplug TiVo for 10 to 15 seconds and plug it back in) might help.
> 
> Just a couple of thoughts.


I don't think this is the problem. Other than these random times, the tivo is perfectly responsive. I do remember noticing in some other forum that someone mentioned his remote was losing "50%" of his key presses. My problem has never been quite this bad, but it seems like it at times. (Although I did have a complete lockup of the interface a couple of days right after 9.1 installed; neither the remote nor the front panel responded to key presses and only a reboot fixed this problem). It does seem that the Tivo doesn't buffer keypresses like it used to, so if the Tivo is busy for some reason during a key press, the key press is just lost).

Given that I have a larger disk than a lot of people (1 TB), I'm thinking that this is more a case of background actions locking out the interface somehow... It is *really* annoying and has happened since the 9.1 release.

Pony, I realize that I'm out of spec on this machine, buy do you guys test the boxes with large amounts of storage? Has anyone seen this problem? Seems like you are going to have S3 boxes with a lot of storage fairly soon because of the eSATA interface...


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## Monty2_2001 (Aug 6, 2005)

I've just gotten a massive 9.1+ bug of sound screwing up over optical with my S3. Answer? Pay them!!! Cause it's a hardware fault?!!?!?

wtf...


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

Monty2_2001 said:


> I've just gotten a massive 9.1+ bug of sound screwing up over optical with my S3. Answer? Pay them!!! Cause it's a hardware fault?!!?!?
> 
> wtf...


I had to use Dolby w/o PCM because the sound would just go insane (VERY LOUD white noise). I didn't bother mentioning it because I wasn't sure it was a Tivo problem.


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## Monty2_2001 (Aug 6, 2005)

formulaben said:


> I had to use Dolby w/o PCM because the sound would just go insane (VERY LOUD white noise). I didn't bother mentioning it because I wasn't sure it was a Tivo problem.


It worked fine until, just since 9.1.. It's making me workaround now by switching off to Video 2, and back to the Tivo's Video input to hear the sound.

C'mon Tivo, you know this is a problem with the software.

But no, they want me to pay them to replace the box.

I'd rather put that money towards an Onkyo 875. But then, what if a patch kills that sound? Will they tell me to pay them to fix it?


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

Yay!
After 9.2 My DVR Name returned.
So my complaint was fixed...


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