# Game of Thrones - Season 1 & 2 Discussion



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay so I'm going to watch the entire series over again. Now that I have a full grasp on locations, houses, characters, etc I feel this might be fun. And I have some burning questions. Book readers, feel free to respond to anything that doesn't spoil beyond what's been aired. I'm sure there's backstory that HBO just couldn't get to that might help us understand some things.

Okay here's my list just from watching the pilot over.

1) I'm confused as to why Ned accepting Hand of the King meant he had to leave Cat behind? So the idea was they would just never see each other again because she was staying to be in charge of Winterfell? That's kind of crap.

2) I'm reminded of just what a ***** Cat was to and about Jon Snow. She wouldn't even allow him to eat with them all because it looked bad that the bastard be among the royalty? And the looks of disgust she gives him right in his eyes, just makes me seethe. Ugh. Hate her.

3) Gosh I had almost forgotten just how good looking Jamie is. He's been in dirt and grime this entire season. I do wonder why he and/or Cercei didn't just poison Robert the same way they did John Arryn. Clearly neither of them have anything but contempt for him.

4) Can someone clue me in again as to exactly what happened to Lyanna? I looked up on that Tower of the Hand site and this is what it says:


> Lyanna was bethrothed to marry Robert Baratheon. (AGOT 5) *At the tournament held at Harrenhal during the year of the false spring, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen shocked the assembled crowd when he bypassed his own wife to crown Lyanna queen of love and beauty.* (AGOT 59) Not long after, he absconded with Lyanna under mysterious circumstances, one of the major causes of Robert's Rebellion. Lyanna was held at the Tower of Joy until near the end of the war when Eddard came to reclaim her. Eddard found her dying in the tower and made an unknown promise to her right before her death. She was buried in the crypts beneath Winterfell. (AGOT 5)


I'm not fully sure I get what the bolded part means. And it says he found her dying... but what from?

I also noticed a couple things that aren't questions just observations that I didn't fully pick up the first time. From the moment Cercei talks to Sansa she calls her "little dove". Also there's some serious dislike between Jamie and Ned that I didn't remember before. I also realized that Summer was pacing below when Jamie shoved Bran off the tower. You'd think the wolf would remember him and want a piece of him the moment he came down.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

The Lyanna thing is kind of spoiler ridden. They go back to that tournament at Harrenhal at different times in different books with different points of view. There are lots of theories about this that you will want to develop for yourself when the time comes.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

stellie93 said:


> The Lyanna thing is kind of spoiler ridden. They go back to that tournament at Harrenhal at different times in different books with different points of view. There are lots of theories about this that you will want to develop for yourself when the time comes.


Oh okay! I just thought with Ned and Robert both gone it was over and done with.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

How are you watching them over? DVD? I want to watch the show now that I've gotten into the books, but it's not streaming anywhere, and I don't currently have HBO.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DreadPirateRob said:


> How are you watching them over? DVD? I want to watch the show now that I've gotten into the books, but it's not streaming anywhere, and I don't currently have HBO.


Your name has the word Pirate in it and you have to ask this?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Watching episode 2. I HATE CAT. I cannot believe how much I despised her at the beginning. She's just awful to Jon. It's not his fault daddy couldn't keep it in his pants.

Cat: <look of utter disgust>
Jon: I've come to say goodbye to Bran
Cat: You've said it
Cat: <more dirty looks as he talks to Bran>
Cat: I want you to leave 
Ned stands there watching the last part and does NOTHING. That is just crap.

I feel her hatred of him is what pushed him to the wall to begin with. Sad.

EDIT: Jon asks Ned about his mom and Ned tells him the next time they see each other they'll talk about his mom. So does that ever get revealed now that Ned is dead? I'm curious what the deal was there.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Watching episode 2. I HATE CAT. I cannot believe how much I despised her at the beginning. She's just awful to Jon. It's not his fault daddy couldn't keep it in his pants.
> 
> Cat: <look of utter disgust>
> Jon: I've come to say goodbye to Bran
> ...


That scene cemented my hatred of anything Cat. I also don't like the actress and her portrayal of Cat (about the only casting choice that annoys me).

To answer your first question (and I could be very wrong), I thought Cat just would not leave Bran and otherwise would have gone to King's Landing with Ned.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> To answer your first question (and I could be very wrong), I thought Cat just would not leave Bran and otherwise would have gone to King's Landing with Ned.


I thought that as well but then she tells Ned 17 years ago he rode off with Robert and came back with another woman's son so I took that to mean she didn't have a choice even if Bran hadn't been injured.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I thought that as well but then she tells Ned 17 years ago he rode off with Robert and came back with another woman's son so I took that to mean she didn't have a choice even if Bran hadn't been injured.


Last time Ned rode off with Robert it was for war, so cat really didn't have a choice in that one


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I thought too that the plan was for her to stay at Winterfell even before Bran's fall. Maybe he thought Rob was too young to run things himself. Obviously wrong about that. Maybe she would have joined him soon if he had felt it was safe? Of all the people with their good and bad sides, Cat is the hardest to understand. I thought she was portrayed more favorably on the show than in the books, but you guys hate her more than I do. 

Ned bringing John back with him and treating him as an equal to his other children was unusual, I think, and that bugged her more than just his existence. As far as his mother, that's also up in the air for a long time--you don't want anything more revealed, I'm sure. DON'T google it. 

Not only Ned, but everyone seems to treat Jamie with contempt--the whole Kingslayer thing. Note how Brienne insists on calling him that. It makes no sense when everyone agrees that the king in question was mad and needed killing, and they were rebelling against him themselves. But Jamie was sworn to protect him. So he's scum.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

stellie93 said:


> I thought too that the plan was for her to stay at Winterfell even before Bran's fall. Maybe he thought Rob was too young to run things himself. Obviously wrong about that. Maybe she would have joined him soon if he had felt it was safe? Of all the people with their good and bad sides, Cat is the hardest to understand. I thought she was portrayed more favorably on the show than in the books, but you guys hate her more than I do.
> 
> Ned bringing John back with him and treating him as an equal to his other children was unusual, I think, and that bugged her more than just his existence. As far as his mother, that's also up in the air for a long time--you don't want anything more revealed, I'm sure. DON'T google it.
> 
> Not only Ned, but everyone seems to treat Jamie with contempt--the whole Kingslayer thing. Note how Brienne insists on calling him that. It makes no sense when everyone agrees that the king in question was mad and needed killing, and they were rebelling against him themselves. But Jamie was sworn to protect him. So he's scum.


I did not google it. I will never google anything related to this show again. 

And I do get the reasoning behind nobody really liking or trusting Jamie.

Funny, I'm watching this again while I'm on the computer and realized that although I don't think Robb Stark is all that hot, his voice is awesomely sexy.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Your name has the word Pirate in it and you have to ask this?


I try not to plunder as much these days.

Pillaging, I'm still good with.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> 3) Gosh I had almost forgotten just how good looking Jamie is. He's been in dirt and grime this entire season. I do wonder why he and/or Cercei didn't just poison Robert the same way they did John Arryn. Clearly neither of them have anything but contempt for him.





Spoiler



It has not been shown that Jamie and Cercei poisoned John Arryn.





photoshopgrl said:


> I did not google it. I will never google anything related to this show again.


I predict you will, after this week's episode.



Spoiler



It will be a phrase spoken by Jaqen H'ghar


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> 4) Can someone clue me in again as to exactly what happened to Lyanna? I looked up on that Tower of the Hand site and this is what it says:
> 
> 
> > Lyanna was bethrothed to marry Robert Baratheon. (AGOT 5) *At the tournament held at Harrenhal during the year of the false spring, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen shocked the assembled crowd when he bypassed his own wife to crown Lyanna queen of love and beauty.* (AGOT 59) Not long after, he absconded with Lyanna under mysterious circumstances, one of the major causes of Robert's Rebellion. Lyanna was held at the Tower of Joy until near the end of the war when Eddard came to reclaim her. Eddard found her dying in the tower and made an unknown promise to her right before her death. She was buried in the crypts beneath Winterfell. (AGOT 5)
> ...


This is the popular theory...


Spoiler



Double spoilered just in case. It could change a lot of things, but this is still just a theory but a big and very popular one.


Spoiler



Jon Snow is really Lyanna's child with Rhaegar. The promise is that Eddard had to protect him (Jon) as his own, King Robert was on a Targaryen killing spree would have gone crazy mad if he had known about Jon as the assumption would have been that she was raped.. There's _speculation_ about it was true love instead of rape. The series title "A Song of Ice and Fire" could mean their romantic love affair. There's lots of hints like Ned never calls Jon his son, and instead says "You are of my blood". Also considering how honorable Ned is, I doubt he ever slept with another woman.

When Ned found Lyanna she was in a pool of blood. It is guessed she had just given birth to Jon, but something had gone wrong during the birth and lost too much blood. That's what killed her.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> I thought that as well but then she tells Ned 17 years ago he rode off with Robert and came back with another woman's son so I took that to mean she didn't have a choice even if Bran hadn't been injured.





stellie93 said:


> I thought too that the plan was for her to stay at Winterfell even before Bran's fall. Maybe he thought Rob was too young to run things himself. Obviously wrong about that. Maybe she would have joined him soon if he had felt it was safe? Of all the people with their good and bad sides, Cat is the hardest to understand. I thought she was portrayed more favorably on the show than in the books, but you guys hate her more than I do.


Again, I'm relying on my terrible memory here. But when Ned first got wind of Robert coming to Winterfell, didn't he and Cat discuss going to KL and how she hates it there?

Also, didn't he beg her to come with him and leave Bran and she said she would do no such thing?

If those 2 memories are correct (and they may not be), then Cat was supposed to go with him. Had she gone with him, I figure Ned's head would have been chopped off while Robert was still alive. The woman is a disaster magnet!


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It has not been shown that Jamie and Cercei poisoned John Arryn.


I'm pretty sure it was not specifically admitted by either of them but their conversation with each other over his dead body _*heavily *_implied it. 


Spoiler



Are you telling me they didn't???


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Didn't Cersei admit it to Ned in their confrontation in the garden?

Also, didn't Jaime as much as admit it when he told Cersei that it had to be done to keep their secret from coming to light?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> Didn't Cersei admit it to Ned in their confrontation in the garden?
> 
> Also, didn't Jaime as much as admit it when he told Cersei that it had to be done to keep their secret from coming to light?


See? This is why I'm watching again. I know the conversation between Jamie and Cercei while looking on at John body pretty much removed all doubt for me even the first time watching it. Now if this isn't accurate then I'll be super confused.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> See? This is why I'm watching again. I know the conversation between Jamie and Cercei while looking on at John body pretty much removed all doubt for me even the first time watching it. Now if this isn't accurate then I'll be super confused.


if it walks like a duck...while you're watching, keep an eye on these things and let me know what you think:

1. Aryn knew of the incest.
2. The Maester (Lewin?) knew that he knew (because he gave him the books?). 
3. The Maester spied for Cersei (fact).
4. The Maester is the one who has poison. He also gave "medicine" to Aryn. He is also the one who cures sick people! (facts)
5. Jaime and Cersei, at the very least, said that Aryn had to die to protect their secret.
6. Cat's sister told Cat that Cersei killed Aryn (or did she say "Lannisters"?).
7. Littlefinger pretty much hand-held Ned through the same clues that Aryn went through.

Add to it the various "confessions", from Cersei to Ned; Jaime as much as said something about first killing Aryn and then crippling Bran to keep the secret, and various other clues and hints I'm not thinking about right now...


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## su719 (Apr 5, 2004)

Cat hates Jon because Ned fathered him with another woman while married to her. So he is a constant reminder of that. I think if your husband did that you would be cold to him as well.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

su719 said:


> Cat hates Jon because Ned fathered him with another woman while married to her. So he is a constant reminder of that. I think if your husband did that you would be cold to him as well.


To a baby? who has done nothing wrong but be born?

I understand harboring resentment; which you do your best to hide from THE CHILD, but what Cat is doing is horrible.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

su719 said:


> Cat hates Jon because Ned fathered him with another woman while married to her. So he is a constant reminder of that. I think if your husband did that you would be cold to him as well.


Uh no. And anyone that would stay with the man but treat the son like he's scum on the bottom of her shoe is a horrible person. HORRIBLE person. Period.


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## shaown (Jul 1, 2002)

Its rarely a good move to assume too much in a Song of Fire and Ice


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Didn't Cersei admit it to Ned in their confrontation in the garden?


Not outright. Ned said "I know the truth Jon Arryn died for", and she said "do you". They talked about her and robert (and Lyanna), she admitted that her kids were Jamie's, but she never admits about killing Jon Arryn. But the way she coyly responds "do you?" seems like an implicit confirmation to me


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Uh no. And anyone that would stay with the man but treat the son like he's scum on the bottom of her shoe is a horrible person. HORRIBLE person. Period.


You know, that's all a matter of societal values. If someone kept a slave today, I'd think they were horrible. 200 years ago slavery was wrong, but I don't think I'd consider someone who owned slaves to be horrible. Likewise, there are currently still cultures that treat women pretty poorly. I think it's wrong of them to do so, but I wouldn't think of an individual in that society as horrible just because they are doing what is the norm.

In Westeros it's completely normal that bastards are treated very poorly. I would respect someone like Ned who shows his bastard more respect than anyone else, but I wouldn't consider anyone horrible just for doing what is socially acceptable and customary.

It's one of those things where I could give you bonus points for seeing beyond the norms of your culture/society, but I'm not going to take away points for just following the norms.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> You know, that's all a matter of societal values. If someone kept a slave today, I'd think they were horrible. 200 years ago slavery was wrong, but I don't think I'd consider someone who owned slaves to be horrible. Likewise, there are currently still cultures that treat women pretty poorly. I think it's wrong of them to do so, but I wouldn't think of an individual in that society as horrible just because they are doing what is the norm.
> 
> In Westeros it's completely normal that bastards are treated very poorly. I would respect someone like Ned who shows his bastard more respect than anyone else, but I wouldn't consider anyone horrible just for doing what is socially acceptable and customary.
> 
> It's one of those things where I could give you bonus points for seeing beyond the norms of your culture/society, but I'm not going to take away points for just following the norms.


So because society in Westeros says bastard kids are worthless that means it's not okay to hate on Cat for treating him like she wishes he were dead? Sorry I do not agree.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I can't imagine a mother looking into a child's eyes and hating that child. And Cat went above and beyond hating that child. 

I see the point about the norm. But to take your slave analogy, I would feel different if the person who owns the slaves rapes them, beats them, and kills them. What Cat has done is unforgivable and I can't make an allowance for it.


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## su719 (Apr 5, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Uh no. And anyone that would stay with the man but treat the son like he's scum on the bottom of her shoe is a horrible person. HORRIBLE person. Period.


But in Westeros marriage's are arranged to align houses and this was during a war and without modern contraception. Bastard's are very common so staying with a husband to modern standards cannot be considered. I do not believe divorce was possible and if it was to happen over a bastard most likely Cat would not be welcomed back even by her own family so she would have no way to live.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

su719 said:


> But in Westeros marriage's are arranged to align houses and this was during a war and without modern contraception. Bastard's are very common so staying with a husband to modern standards cannot be considered. I do not believe divorce was possible and if it was to happen over a bastard most likely Cat would not be welcomed back even by her own family so she would have no way to live.


You are still failing to give justifiable reason that she should treat Jon with such utter contempt. Give it up, you'll not change my point of view on this.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> You are still failing to give justifiable reason that she should treat Jon with such utter contempt. Give it up, you'll not change my point of view on this.


Sorry. I though it was just a discussion, not an attempt to convert you. But it's probably one of the least interesting aspects of the show to discuss, so...next topic.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

to lighten the thread, here's Arya dancing


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> Can someone clue me in again as to exactly what happened to Lyanna? I looked up on that Tower of the Hand site and this is what it says:.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tread carefully. There is a lot of speculation in a link I am about to post, but it is speculation on things revealed in books 1,2, _and 3_. Things that are revealed in the books, but have only _very lightly_ been touched on in the series. I am going to put in the next spoiler box a small description of what can be found at the link without revealing it. The description itself might tip you off to what the link is about (I highly doubt it but want to cover all bases), but it will not actually spoil it. This is to let you decide if you want to proceed.



Spoiler



Below is a link that has three theories on a particular topic. The topic is not about Lyanna specifically, but she is speculated to be related to the topic through circumstantial evidence revealed through conversation from books 1,2,and 3 as well as the inner memories of characters from book 1. If you are curious, I will reveal just a teensy bit more...


Spoiler



Here. If you do not want to be completely spoiled on anything, you can skip theories number 1 and 2. Lyanna is only in theory three of the topic being discussed.


Spoiler



Still with me? Alright, but before you go in, I just want to advise you, what is discussed on the page I am about to link to is complete speculation. The topic being discussed has not been confirmed in any book released to date. Are you ready? Ok, here we go, the link:


Spoiler



http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jon.html


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Dang there is a lot of info on that web page. I really enjoy that he writes in a way that allows speculation. Most stories don't really do a good job of this. Things tend not to matter or or so obvious that it isn't really a secret. Part of that is his characters being extremely well developed and not charactertures. Except for Joffrey of course. The little [email protected]@rd.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jakerock said:


> Dang there is a lot of info on that web page. I really enjoy that he writes in a way that allows speculation. Most stories don't really do a good job of this. Things tend not to matter or or so obvious that it isn't really a secret. Part of that is his characters being extremely well developed and not charactertures. Except for Joffrey of course. The little [email protected]@rd.


give him credit, Joffrey has developed into a HUGE [email protected]@rd!


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> Sorry. I though it was just a discussion, not an attempt to convert you. But it's probably one of the least interesting aspects of the show to discuss, so...next topic.


LOL My comment wasn't even to you. And discuss away, I was just saying to _that other person that isn't you_, that my mind is made up. Jeesh. So sensitive.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Shaunnick, I might read that at home in a bit. I'm still uncertain.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Tread carefully. There is a lot of speculation in a link I am about to post, but it is speculation on things revealed in books 1,2, _and 3_. Things that are revealed in the books, but have only _very lightly_ been touched on in the series. I am going to put in the next spoiler box a small description of what can be found at the link without revealing it. The description itself might tip you off to what the link is about (I highly doubt it but want to cover all bases), but it will not actually spoil it. This is to let you decide if you want to proceed.


Bravo. I didn't actually click on your link, and in fact I was very careful to avert my gaze just in case the URL contained some keyword that would give it away, but I just wanted to say I don't think I've every seen spoiler tags nested 4 levels deep on this forum


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> Bravo. I didn't actually click on your link, and in fact I was very careful to avert my gaze just in case the URL contained some keyword that would give it away, but I just wanted to say I don't think I've every seen spoiler tags nested 4 levels deep on this forum




I figured I would give the reader every opportunity to decide to pull out before they saw things they may not want to know yet.

That being said, the show has only touched on a couple of the items mentioned on that page, so I wonder how they will ever handle all the "evidence" should one day any of that stuff pan out.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> LOL My comment wasn't even to you. And discuss away, I was just saying to _that other person that isn't you_, that my mind is made up. Jeesh. So sensitive.


Well, he actually did say exactly the other thing I was going to mention, so it might as well have applied to me.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

su719 said:


> But in Westeros marriage's are arranged to align houses and this was during a war and without modern contraception.


Poor Ned--he had just been married a short time in an arranged marriage to a woman he barely knew who probably didn't want to be married to him and live in the north--then he went off the war for months or maybe years....stuff happens--or maybe it didn't. 



Shaunnick said:


> I figured I would give the reader every opportunity to decide to pull out before they saw things they may not want to know yet.
> 
> That being said, the show has only touched on a couple of the items mentioned on that page, so I wonder how they will ever handle all the "evidence" should one day any of that stuff pan out.


Yeah, they have more live characters than they can show--are they really going to flash back to dead ones? I guess it depends on how important Lyanna really was. 

I figured out the main theory mentioned here on my own while reading the books before I saw it anywhere else--I would guess that Cristina will want to do that too. (figure it out for herself--not read the books, heaven forbid )


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

stellie93 said:


> I figured out the main theory mentioned here on my own while reading the books before I saw it anywhere else--I would guess that Cristina will want to do that too. (figure it out for herself--not read the books, heaven forbid )


Yes, I think watching them all over again, knowing the characters better will help me greatly pick up things I didn't the first time around so I might have some theories by the time I'm done. 
(and no book reading here! )


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I hate not being able to comment on the discussions here for having read the books.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

robojerk said:


> I hate not being able to comment on the discussions here for having read the books.


You can comment, just don't spoil.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

For you non book readers, can I get your thoughts on the following:

The motives of those on the council. (Littlefinger, Varys, Maester Pycelle)
Jaime Lannister Your opinion of him as a person and his role as a kingsguard killing the mad king.
Who do you think is the most deserving of the Irone Throne so far, and why.
The death of Jon Aryn (the former hand before Eddard Stark.) Cat's sister Lysa made an accusation against the Lannisters, however when we meet Lysa she seems sort of unstable. When Eddard brings it up with Cersei she neither admits or denies anything about his murder, unfortunately we never see Cat or Rob Stark bring up the accusation with Jaime when he's captured.
The Valaryin Steel knife used to attempt to assassinate Bran, Littlefinger say's it belongs to Tyrion. Do you think it was Tyrion, or someone else behind the plot to murder a comatose Bran?
Brienne: Do you think she could take Jaime in a sword fight? Do you think she'll be able to return Jaime to Kings Landing?
Open thoughts. Meaning any other things you want to discuss.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

robojerk said:


> For you non book readers, can I get your thoughts on the following:
> 
> The motives of those on the council. (Littlefinger, Varys, Maester Pycelle)
> Jaime Lannister Your opinion of him as a person and his role as a kingsguard killing the mad king.
> ...


Yay! Discussion. 

1. I've actually been pondering this. I'd say their motives are the same as everyone else's. They want power. They can't have the throne so they want someone in it they can control the easiest. I think Varys and Baelish are what we might call frenemies. I think they both want to be the ultimate puppet master.
2. Jamie I have to attempt to put aside my obvious skin crawling at his sleeping with his sister. I don't know that much about the entire "King slayer" thing but if the King was indeed mad and it was agreed he needed to go then I think Jamie was just the tool that did everyone's dirty job and I don't have as much of a problem with that as I do him [attempting] to shove a 10 year old kid to his death. 
3. I think if we play by the rules then Stannis has the most right to the crown. Unless we are expected to go back to the Targaryen days and justify all that. Even then, Danny has no rights to it as a woman. Are there any other Targaryens alive? I don't know if I agree with this "King of the North" thing either but since I like Robb so much more than the Lannisters or Stannis, it tends to sway my thoughts on that a bit. 
4. I always assumed it was Jamie and Cercei that killed Arryn until recently. Now I'm not so sure. I have no idea who else would have done it though or a motive for anyone else. I really wish someone would have mentioned it while Jamie was in captivity. 
5. I do NOT believe for a second that Tyrion was behind the attempt on Bran. I wholeheartedly believe that was Jamie and/or Cercei covering their tracks.
6. I think Brienne could take Jaimie _in a fair fight_. Just because he slayed a King doesn't make him the best swordsman in the land! Plus she's angrier than he is. However, he's more devious and lacks honor when it's his own ass on the line so he might just be able to get the jump on her. I really don't know if she'll make it to KL with him or not. If she stays on her toes, she might. Unless someone else finds them.

Also in the pilot, I got the feeling that Jaimie and Tyrion were much more amicable than Cercei and Tyrion. She seems to despise him while Jaimie seems to think of him as just a little brother. Maybe I'm wrong, that was just my impression.

I had other thoughts awhile ago that have now escaped me. I'm sure they'll come back!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

It does seem like Tyrion and Jamie have a nice normal sibling relationship--unusual in this show. Of course Jamie has never had any reason to be jealous of him like brothers sometimes are. We really haven't seen them together much. 

I kind of thought that Jamie was considered "the best swordsman in the land" from things said and the fact that he was the youngest member of the kingsguard, or something like that. We haven't seen him perform much, and getting himself captured didn't seem like great battle skills, but still....And that's just by reputation at this point, not anything that happens later. 

One of the summaries I read mentions that there is really no one to root for to be king. Stannis has his attachment to the Red Lady, I wouldn't trust any Lannisters (Tyrion wouldn't be able to overpower the rest), Rob doesn't want it, Dany has never even set foot in Westeros.....They need a King Arthur type guy to rise up from the common folk and take over.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> I kind of thought that Jamie was considered "the best swordsman in the land" from things said and the fact that he was the youngest member of the kingsguard, or something like that. We haven't seen him perform much, and getting himself captured didn't seem like great battle skills, but still....


There's a difference between having great swordsmanship skills and being smart enough not to lead your army into a massive ambush...


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

robojerk said:


> The motives of those on the council. (Littlefinger, Varys, Maester Pycelle)


I don't find this as simple as Cristina put it. For Littlefinger, I'll agree 100%. He's not even deceitful about it. Might as well put it up on a neon sign. Pycelle, I think, is quite the opposite. I think he's happy enough to serve. He doesn't seem very deceitful or aggressive. Varys I think is the most difficult of all. He's very much like Littlefinger in his ways, but I don't think he has the same motivations of power. Rather than trying to benefit himself, he seems more like he wants to antagonize other people. If his moves have anything to do with power, it may be not to gain it for himself, but to remove it from those who have the most (maybe you could say he's leveling the playing field).



> Jaime Lannister Your opinion of him as a person and his role as a kingsguard killing the mad king.


He seems to get the brunt of the bad name. We don't see it in the show, but from what others have told us, Tywin is just as guilty of betraying the King as Jamie. But that aside, I don't think very highly of him. He reminds me of a high school jock who excels at what he did and then lives the rest of his life not amounting to much more. Seems like all we see of him is him attempting to (unsuccessfully) bully others into fighting him on his terms.



> Who do you think is the most deserving of the Irone Throne so far, and why.


That is a toughie. At first glance Ned seemed ideal, except I'm not surehe was strong enough to hold it all together. But he certainly wins on the old adage of "those who would seek power don't deserve it...those who deserve it don't seek it".

I think Renly was a much better choice all around. He seemed very much like Ned, except he has that little bit of killer instinct in him that can make him vicious enough to make the moves that are necessary to keep things together. I think it's no mere coincidence that the most suitable king was quickly killed off. Makes for a better story when there's not so much a clear front runner.

So, looking at the characters left, Robb seems very much like Ned...and obvious choice but not strong enough. We see him more vicious than Ned right now, but that's because he's driven by revenge. Take that out of the equation and I'm not sure he'd be a strong leader.

Joffrey, hell no. Theon, hell no. Dany...I won't say hell no, but I'll leave it at a no. Too bi-polar. One minute she's saving a village of women from rape, the next she's going off about how she's going to destroy anyone who doesn't give her what she wants.

Tywins not all that bad of a candidate too, but I'm not sure we've seen enough of him yet for me to be certain. And it seems like he really doesn't want to rule either, so perhaps a moot point.

And of course Tyrion would be a good option character wise. Next to Renly, he'd probably be the best choice. He's just trapped in the wrong body, and I don't think people would seriously respect him as king.

Sadly, at this point I'd have to go with Stannis. He's not terrible, but he is strong, and he seems to respect Davos enough that Davos would probably be good enough at keeping him in check.

However, there's a part of me thinking there are still a lot of books, and our best bet (now that Renly is dead) may not yet have appeared.



> The death of Jon Aryn (the former hand before Eddard Stark.) Cat's sister Lysa made an accusation against the Lannisters, however when we meet Lysa she seems sort of unstable. When Eddard brings it up with Cersei she neither admits or denies anything about his murder, unfortunately we never see Cat or Rob Stark bring up the accusation with Jaime when he's captured.


I think it's pretty clear is was Cersei and Jamie. Even from their conversation in episode 1 it seemed their concern was did we kill him fast enough before anybody could find out.



> The Valaryin Steel knife used to attempt to assassinate Bran, Littlefinger say's it belongs to Tyrion. Do you think it was Tyrion, or someone else behind the plot to murder a comatose Bran?


I don't think Tyrion has anything to do with it. I'd pin this one on Littlefinger somehow, except I don't think the timing fits (too far away, too little time). I'm gonna say Jamie. It seems like the weapon he's appreciate. I think Littlefinger knew what was going on and was just covering. But I'll say my certainty on this matter is extremely low.



> Brienne: Do you think she could take Jaime in a sword fight? Do you think she'll be able to return Jaime to Kings Landing?


He'd definitely take her. Their abilities are closely matched, but I think it would end much like Bronn vs the knight he made fly at the Eyrie. Now if it were to happen in front of witnesses, he'd probably be too concerned about looking good, but alone, just the 2 of them, he'd have no qualms about fighting dirty.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> I think Renly was a much better choice all around. He seemed very much like Ned, except he has that little bit of killer instinct in him that can make him vicious enough to make the moves that are necessary to keep things together.


Well, that and he didn't have a shred of apparent honor. That was another little difference...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

robojerk said:


> For you non book readers, can I get your thoughts on the following:
> 
> The motives of those on the council. (Littlefinger, Varys, Maester Pycelle)
> Jaime Lannister Your opinion of him as a person and his role as a kingsguard killing the mad king.
> ...


My Turn!

1. Motives: Littlefinger wants the throne. He wants POWER. Varys? The Realm staying the same. Pycell wants to die a very very old man no matter who is in power. They all want riches, of course.

2. Jaime: I like the description of him as a jock. He is good at one thing. He lives by his own code; which is admirable, I guess. He is a sociopath.

3. Deserving the Throne: Tyrion and Robb are the only ones who would be good kings. They would make sure people were treated fairly and that the kingdom prospers. They would not be afraid to kill if they have to but would not do it out of malice or hubris. Failing those 2, I'll go with Theon. (kidding!).

4. Jaime and Cersei (with Pycell's help) killed Aryn. I have zero doubt.

5. the Knife to kill Bran: Littlefinger lied. The best way to deflect guilt is to do what he did. Tyrion had nothing to do with it. He would never order the murder of a child and, until the war much later, had zero power and was not part of the Lannisters' inner plots and plans.

6. No way Brienne would beat Jaime. Do you remember how quickly Jaime killed Ned's right hand man (with the sneaky knife to the eye)? Jaime wins because he fights dirty. The dirtiest fighter wins if skills are similar.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Littlefinger wants the throne.


No.


Anubys said:


> He wants POWER.


Yes.

He's smart enough to know that he has no chance of the throne...he comes from a very minor noble family, not one of the "royal" houses.

And I'm not even sure he wants power per se, so much as the joy of manipulating people and events. If he wanted power, he would pick a side and be the man behind the throne, but since he has a (much-deserved) reputation for turning on anybody and everybody when it suits him, and even announces the fact to his future victims, nobody will ever trust him enough to let him have that role.

I think that ironically his game-playing has limited the extent to which he can possibly win. He can help people and he can hurt people, but he can never stand beside (or behind) anybody.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> He'd definitely take her. Their abilities are closely matched, but I think it would end much like Bronn vs the knight he made fly at the Eyrie. Now if it were to happen in front of witnesses, he'd probably be too concerned about looking good, but alone, just the 2 of them, he'd have no qualms about fighting dirty.





Anubys said:


> 6. No way Brienne would beat Jaime. Do you remember how quickly Jaime killed Ned's right hand man (with the sneaky knife to the eye)? Jaime wins because he fights dirty. The dirtiest fighter wins if skills are similar.


And this is why I said _in a fair fight_.... which of course it would never be.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, that and he didn't have a shred of apparent honor. That was another little difference...


Care to elaborate on this?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> Care to elaborate on this?


Probably has something to do with the fact that he was trying to take the throne even though technically Stannis was in the right for it because he knew he was liked by the people more than Stannis. And he was gay and covering it all the while sleeping with the brother of his soon to be queen.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> Probably has something to do with the fact that he was trying to take the throne even though technically Stannis was in the right for it because he knew he was liked by the people more than Stannis. And he was gay and covering it all the while sleeping with the brother of his soon to be queen.


Yeah, basically he was a whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement, who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted without understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions.

Stannis probably has a lot more in common with his little brother than he would care to admit.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Pycelle, I think, is quite the opposite. I think he's happy enough to serve. He doesn't seem very deceitful or aggressive.


Did you forget the scene where we see that Pycelle is actually rather fit and spry, though he puts on the airs of an old decrepit man whenever anybody is around?

There was a naked old guy doing exercises on your TV. I would think that was burned into your brain, though I have no doubt you'd much rather forget it ever happened!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Varys? The Realm staying the same.


Not sure I can agree with that. When he was in the tunnels with that lord or whoever from Penthos, he was encouraging having Drago attack Westeros (and soon). That would be a hell of a change for the Kingdom.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Did you forget the scene where we see that Pycelle is actually rather fit and spry, though he puts on the airs of an old decrepit man whenever anybody is around?
> 
> There was a naked old guy doing exercises on your TV. I would think that was burned into your brain, though I have no doubt you'd much rather forget it ever happened!


No, I most certainly remember that, and I thought it was going somewhere big, but so far it's gone absolutely nowhere. The only thing I can take from that scene is that he wants to be safe. The more feeble-bodied you are, the less of a threat you are perceived to be. He just wants to serve in peace, do his job, and not get into any trouble. If he appears to be a withered old man, nobody will pay him much attention.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> Also in the pilot, I got the feeling that Jaimie and Tyrion were much more amicable than Cercei and Tyrion. She seems to despise him while Jaimie seems to think of him as just a little brother. Maybe I'm wrong, that was just my impression.


I think that's about an accurate characterization as we've seen so far. I think the two have only shared 2 scenes so far on the show, I might be wrong.
Whorehouse in Winterfell
Breakfast the next morning after Bran falls


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, basically he was a whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement, who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted without understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions.


Not sure I agree with that assessment. The closest I recall to that description was his conversation with Loras, complaining about how Robert treated him, but that seemed nothing more than a grown man tired of being treated by his older brother as if he were a child.

Further, being King isn't really what he wanted. At least it wasn't something he was after originally. Loras put the idea in his head, convinced him he was the best person for the job, and that he has the money to help him make it happen.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

He started a war and got thousands of people killed to achieve a position that he had no right to whatsoever.

I'd say "whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement, who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted without understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions"' if anything errs on the side of kindness.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Not sure I can agree with that. When he was in the tunnels with that lord or whoever from Penthos, he was encouraging having Drago attack Westeros (and soon). That would be a hell of a change for the Kingdom.


But he indicated that the realm NEEDED a war in order to stay strong. He could see that Robert was not a good peacetime king. One of those deals where you start a war to unite the people against a common enemy.



LordKronos said:


> Not sure I agree with that assessment. The closest I recall to that description was his conversation with Loras, complaining about how Robert treated him, but that seemed nothing more than a grown man tired of being treated by his older brother as if he were a child.
> 
> Further, being King isn't really what he wanted. At least it wasn't something he was after originally. Loras put the idea in his head, convinced him he was the best person for the job, and that he has the money to help him make it happen.


I think he liked the idea of playing king. He liked the theater of it (and no, this is not gay stereotyping). Cat even said it straight out, her son was out there fighting while he was sitting with his army playing out the part.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He started a war and got thousands of people killed to achieve a position that he had no right to whatsoever.


Actually, that's not correct. In reality, I think he got nobody killed except for himself. And Joffrey had no right to the throne either. Stannis may have, but (and I don't know if it was spelled out or I just got the impression) he seemed to have no real interest in the affairs of Westeros until he had the chance to be king. Seemed like he just withdrew to his island, and was in fact aligning himself with Melisandra from Essos. Most of the people who ended up fighting for Stannis were in fact ready to fight for Renly before he died. So you had 100k men who said "rights of succession be damned, I support Renly". Also, Robb sent Cat to see Renly, not Stannis. If everyone else supported the rightful heir, you'd think he'd be trying to ally with Stannis.

It seems like, other than the people from Dragonstone, everyone else wanted Renly more than Stannis, not matter who had rights by law.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Did the show explain any of the background behind Lady Stark (Cat) and Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger).


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Did the show explain any of the background behind Lady Stark (Cat) and Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger).


Yeah, there were at least a couple of scenes scattered through season 1 that explained it. One of the scenes in the whorehouse where he talked about saving himself all his life for Cat. There was also a scene (with Ned, perhaps) where he explained being cut from naval to neck in a fight over Cat. If you are asking specifically why he fell in love with her (ie: something specific that triggered his love), I don't recall whether or not that was explained.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> 2) I'm reminded of just what a ***** Cat was to and about Jon Snow. She wouldn't even allow him to eat with them all because it looked bad that the bastard be among the royalty? And the looks of disgust she gives him right in his eyes, just makes me seethe. Ugh. Hate her.


I just wanted to chime in about how much I feel the show (and the actors) do a good job of softening some of the characters. We're far enough away from the first season for me to share one line omitted from the show that was in the first book that for most readers make them hate Cat more than show watchers. I'll spoil it just in case, but honestly, it isn't.



Spoiler



Before Jon heads to the wall he stops in to see Bran while he is still in a coma, Cat says to him "It should have been you."



She has never been able to redeem herself in my eyes from early on. Adding in capturing Tyrion (which killed Ned) and setting Jaime free and I absolutely hate Cat. (Both completely justifiable if I wasn't predisposed to hate her.)

Hell, I even feel sorry for Sansa on the show and in the books want to shake her everytime she says anything.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes.


I've always found the Littlefinger Varys situation interesting. To me Littlefinger represents chaos (and attempts to gain power picking up the pieces) whereas Varys represents order and keeping the realm in tact. And of course, like all cripples, bastards, and broken things, Varys never gets his due respect.


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He started a war and got thousands of people killed to achieve a position that he had no right to whatsoever.
> 
> I'd say "whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement, who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted without understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions"' if anything errs on the side of kindness.


Every king throughout history was either a "whiny little brat with an over-developed sense of entitlement" or the descendent of one. The only reason Robert was king was because he took the kingdom by force, the Targaryens did the same before him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Except Robert (and Ned and Tywin) took the throne because the Mad King was abusing his power, and raping and murdering Robert's fiancee (and Ned's sister) in the process.

Not because he thought he'd look good with a crown.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except Robert (and Ned and Tywin) took the throne because the Mad King was abusing his power, and *raping and murdering Robert's fiancee (and Ned's sister) in the process.*
> 
> Not because he thought he'd look good with a crown.


You sure about the "Mad King" raping Ned's sister? I know King Robert thinks Rhaegar raped her, but even that is debatable since every other character besides Robert that discusses Rhaegar has nothing but nice words to say about the guy, raping doesn't seemed like something Rhaegar would do if you read what every other character says about him. And the theories


Spoiler



Rhaegar and Ned's sister were in love, even though she was promised to Robert and Rhaegar married a Dornish princess (not for love). Similar to how Robb is breaking his own vows.


If the Mad King was 'rapey"


Spoiler



I know the Mad King had the hots for Tywin's wife, and even made made comments about how he wished that a law allowing the king to "break in" a bride still existed, but even then there's no confirmation anything happened. There's theories like the mad king did rape Tywin's wife, and there's also some theories that Tyrion, or Jaime and Cersai are actually products of a rape. However if True I think Tywin would never let any of it be known.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

This is an interesting theory I've never heard before....


Spoiler



So maybe Jamie and Cercei like incest because they're Targarians, and that's what they do? And when Dani comes with her Dragons in book 25, they will be able to stand up to them somehow?


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

I don't fully understand the hatred for Catelyn, some of her actions may not seem rational and mostly born out of anger. But one thing that she has said and it is a theme throughout the show (and the books 1 and 2, so far) is that a mother would do anything for her kids.

Catelyn's hate for Jon Snow is for what he represents (Ned's betrayal) not the person.

Likewise we have seen Cersei, act and say similar things that she would be willing to do anything for her kids (and she has)

And finally we have seen, Daenerys, the Mother of Dragons do as much and I can imagine we will see her act more "Mother Hen" with her dragons.

Lysa Arryn, same.

All mothers in this series act, motherly


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ozzman73 said:


> All mothers in this series act, motherly


But in the worst, most destructive way.

A man wonders if G. R.R. M. has mommy issues..?


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But in the worst, most destructive way.
> 
> A man wonders if G. R.R. M. has mommy issues..?


Without a doubt.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> A man wonders if G. R.R. M. has mommy issues..?


Your Jaqen phrasing made me giggle.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Usually in these situations I say "One wonders," but here, well, you know...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Catelyn is like a tornado, bringing mayhem and destruction wherever she goes. Even poor Renly died while she was there! As I mentioned before, Ned would have had his head cut off much sooner had she been to KL with him from the onset.

I would find it all that funny except that I really don't like the casting choice and I think the actress has done a piss-poor job of acting. Whenever she is on screen, I wonder how much better the scene would be if a better actress was available.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> Catelyn is like a tornado, bringing mayhem and destruction wherever she goes. Even poor Renly died while she was there! As I mentioned before, Ned would have had his head cut off much sooner had she been to KL with him from the onset.


Can we just keep her FAR away from Tyrion please?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Can we just keep her FAR away from Tyrion please?


I'm pretty sure she was in the next room when he was conceived!


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> I'm pretty sure she was in the next room when he was conceived!


DOH!


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

I disagree with the comments about casting. The way the actress portrays a woman that has gone to a lot of hardship and now has to pick up what's left. She probably loved Littlefinger (unless he was friendzoned) then watched her future husband almost killed her best friend in a duel. Then he, himself gets killed by the King, so now she is stuck with Eddard. Learns to love him, marries him and then he goes to war. Comes back with a son. She has to raise said son, has a bunch more kids. Then one day the king comes and her husband leaves with her daughters. Then her son is almost killed, twice, when has the scars to prove it...then

Well you get the point.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

You know I would have a MUCH harder time following GoT if I didn't have the wisdom from here. I can't imagine how anybody would have picked up on, for example early on that Theon wasn't a Stark, and what kind of ward he was. All I can remember is how Theon narrated the awarding of 5 direwolf pups to the 4+1 Starks.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

netringer said:


> You know I would have a MUCH harder time following GoT if I didn't have the wisdom from here. I can't imagine how anybody would have picked up on, for example early on that Theon wasn't a Stark, and what kind of ward he was. All I can remember is how Theon narrated the awarding of 5 direwolf pups to the 4+1 Starks.


And I can see how you are still having problems, being that there are 5+1 starks: Rikkon (did you forget him?), Bran, Arya, Sansa, and Robb + John Snow.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

> George W. Bushs decapitated head appeared on Game of Thrones
> ...
> "The last head on the left is George Bush. George Bush's head appears in a couple of beheading scenes. It's not a choice, it's not a political statement. We just had to use whatever head we had around."












http://io9.com/5918114/george-w-bushs-decapitated-head-appeared-on-game-of-thrones


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

tlc said:


> http://io9.com/5918114/george-w-bushs-decapitated-head-appeared-on-game-of-thrones


Interesting. I haven't kept up with news of ex-Presidents, but I thought, contrary to popular opinion, that Bush's head was still attached.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Is it really Bush's head? I read somewhere that the head just ended up resembling Bush, someone noticed and it just became what they called it and was not intentional.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Is it really Bush's head? I read somewhere that the head just ended up resembling Bush, someone noticed and it just became what they called it and was not intentional.


Yeah, that's pretty much what the producers said here:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1687362/game-of-thrones-george-w-bush.jhtml

TLDNR version - they need a bunch of heads but don't want to spend the money to make them so they rent some premade ones. They film the scene, and later someone says "That one looks like GWB"


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

tlc said:


> http://io9.com/5918114/george-w-bushs-decapitated-head-appeared-on-game-of-thrones





allan said:


> Interesting. I haven't kept up with news of ex-Presidents, but I thought, contrary to popular opinion, that Bush's head was still attached.


How loud has the Faux poutrage been? Demanding a Secret Service investigation?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I'm far, far from an expert you understand but... it doesn't look any more like GWB than it looks like two or three guys I work with. None of whom (to my knowledge) have ever been confused with GWB.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I'm far, far from an expert you understand but... it doesn't look any more like GWB than it looks like two or three guys I work with. None of whom (to my knowledge) have ever been confused with GWB.


To me it looks more like Ricardo Montalban as Kahn.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

HBO is pulling that episode off of HBO Go, iTunes etc. and has issued an even stronger statement.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/06/gam...orge-bushs-severed-head-pulled-from-rotation/

"We were deeply dismayed to see this and find it unacceptable, disrespectful and in very bad taste," the network said. "We made this clear to the executive producers of the series who apologized immediately for this careless mistake. We condemn it in the strongest possible terms and have halted all future shipments of the DVDs, removed it from our digital platforms and will edit the scene for all future airings on any distribution domestic or international."

If it hadn't of been mentioned in the DVD commentary, I don't think it would have been noticed.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Overreact much?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Well I had held off buying the bluray before now but just ordered it on Amazon before they pull them off the shelves too. Ridiculous!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Overreact much?


Yes. Now go apologize to Kahn!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

They better not edit out that scene. Hopefully they just do like a photoshop job in that scene, replacing the head with blue sky or some other face. But yeah, just silly.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

For what reason did they have a GWB severed head just lying around?


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

He was the POTUS, and in this age where beheading one's enemies is still done, it was a fair response to a stupid error. And if it was Clinton's head I would feel the same way. Partisan poutrage is also evidenced in the comments above. 

Now let's get back to talking about what a ***** Joffrey is.  Great acting IMO - I can't stand the sight of the character after the wolf incident where Arya kicked his ass.

I bought the books on Kindle. After doing a marathon of the first two seasons over less than a fortnight, we're having serious GoT withdrawal. It's a real downside of the technique - happened with Mad Men too, and probably will with Breaking Bad.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

For the record I don't think anyone anywhere related to the show says that it actually was a replica of GWB. What happened is that while watching the dailies (or what ever) someone commented that it looked like him. (As others have noted here it looks just as much like other people or characters.) They then mentioned it in the commentary.

There is no reason to believe that it was a GWB head put there intentionally or by mistake. The mistake was mentioning that it looked like him in the commentary. That's just not something you do simply because no matter what your intention is by saying it, someone will take offense. Don't do politics, religion, race etc. That's just an open invitation to trouble.

Even saying "OK someone looked at this and thought that head looked like GWB but it isn't so don't get upset with us because that would be a silly and tasteless thing to do no matter what your political beliefs are..." would just cause problems. So why do it? Because someone didn't think a whole lot about what they were saying when they were sitting there in the umpteenth hours of making inane drivel about a show they had probably seen a dozen times and they just prattled it out.

At least that is what I think happened based on reading the articles and original information about the event.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> For what reason did they have a GWB severed head just lying around?


What if they happened to have a GWB MASK lying around to put a wig on, stuff and bloody up, or went to a costume store and got one that looked like a reasonable facimile of Ned? ...and I wouldn't doubt that they had a few giggles.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Thinking about this talk of "Bush's head", and thinking about GoT politics, it's a good thing that, as bad as RL politics is, the "cutthroat" part is not literal like it is there.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

HBO Still Sorry: "Game Of Thrones" Bush-Head Gets Airbrush Makeover
Here's the before and after pics
http://www.inquisitr.com/263513/hbo-still-sorry-game-of-thrones-bush-head-gets-airbrush-makeover/


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I really didn't know where to post this but it's awesome


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I have a "prediction" that I would like the book readers to confirm about Balish:



Spoiler



Is he going to take Sansa as a bride, to satisfy his lust for Catelyn, to start having heirs, and remove her from Joffery's reach?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

dtle said:


> I have a "prediction" that I would like the book readers to confirm about Balish:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I have finished book three. Some of what you are saying is a yes, other things you are saying look like that is what is going to happen. All I can say for sure is that Sansa's life keeps getting more miserable by the moment.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

dtle said:


> I have a "prediction" that I would like the book readers to confirm about Balish:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



No, at least up to current books, but


Spoiler



don't click if you don't want to be spoiled


Spoiler



Littlefinger rescues her out of King's landing and takes her to the Eyrie where he marries her crazy aunt all while pretending she's his bastard daughter.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Game of Shots!!!








http://store.hbo.com/game-of-throne...?p=374175&ecid=SMM-HBO-00448&pa=SMM-HBO-00448


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

robojerk said:


> Game of Shots!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:up: Awesome


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