# Roamio and Mini update today (10/17/2013)



## TiVoMargret

We will be releasing an update later today for TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini.

Here is a list of some of the changes:
- TiVo Mini now waits 4 hours (instead of 90 minutes) of no remote control activity before prompting the user and then timing out of live TV and showing a screen saver
- new RF Remote Pairing screen for TiVo Roamio (Settings > Remote)
- fixed audio delay of 10+ seconds when unpausing a Netflix video with Dolby Digital+
- fixed macro-blocking of Amazon downloads
- fixed the occasional loud burst of static
- fixed several issues related to HDMI and various TVs where the UI/video would not display when the TV was turned on, or the box frequently rebooted when the TV was off
- improved the behavior of the RF remote in areas with WiFi interference
- fixed a MoCA encryption incompatibility between Roamio and Mini
- fixed issues related to overlapping recordings causing missed recordings and A/V glitching

The update should probably be available sometime after 4pm PT.


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## sac84371

Thanks and well done Tivo.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Dang, nailing 'em out. :up:


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## sbiller

Hi Margret,

We very much appreciate the detailed change log! 

~Sam


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## akaussie

Awesome! Thanks Margret!


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## markp99

sbiller said:


> Hi Margret,
> 
> We very much appreciate the detailed change log!
> 
> ~Sam


Absolutely agree - this is awesome detail!


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## bobfrank

After so many years of not having any information from Tivo about what was included in updates we really appreciate the information you are providing Margaret.


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## Hrbek14

TiVoMargret said:


> - TiVo Mini now waits 4 hours (instead of 90 minutes) of no remote control activity before prompting the user and then timing out of live TV and showing a screen saver


Quick question about this - how will this work with dynamic tuners? If I watch TV on my Mini and then turn off the TV, it will hold that tuner for 4 hours before releasing it so that my main TiVo unit can use it? If I hit the TiVo button before leaving the room, would that immediately release the tuner? I'm just hoping to understand how this will work.


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## bradleys

Hrbek14 said:


> Quick question about this - how will this work with dynamic tuners? If I watch TV on my Mini and then turn off the TV, it will hold that tuner for 4 hours before releasing it so that my main TiVo unit can use it? If I hit the TiVo button before leaving the room, would that immediately release the tuner? I'm just hoping to understand how this will work.


If you just turn off the TV, the Roamio will keep the connection to the MINI for four hours (clock starts following your last interaction with the Mini.)

If you hit the TiVo button, you will immediately release the Tuner. You can then turn off the TV.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Hrbek14 said:


> Quick question about this - how will this work with dynamic tuners? If I watch TV on my Mini and then turn off the TV, it will hold that tuner for 4 hours before releasing it so that my main TiVo unit can use it? If I hit the TiVo button before leaving the room, would that immediately release the tuner? I'm just hoping to understand how this will work.


The way it works on the Roamio:

- Hitting the Tivo button releases the tuner.
- Timing out after remote inactivity (now 4 hrs) releases the tuner.
- If the tuner is needed for a recording, the host will reclaim it with a prompt on the Mini to cancel the impending recording if they wish, just like a recording conflict. Unless the recording is actively cancelled, it'll reclaim the tuner.

Otherwise it'll keep the tuner for the 4 hr duration regardless of the TV being on/off. It doesn't seem to detect the TV's status.


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## cherry ghost

TiVoMargret said:


> - fixed issues related to overlapping recordings causing missed recordings and A/V glitching


This is the interesting one. Was the intention to use a single tuner when back-to-back recordings on the same channel overlap but it wasn't working properly and is now fixed? Or was it just a bug and two tuners will be used as usual?


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## Dan203

I'm curious about that as well


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## Dan203

Is this the "fall update" for the Roamio/Mini? I know they already had most of the features that were being added to the Premiere so maybe there is no "fall update" for them? Just a few minor updates like this to fix bugs?


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## djwilso

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The way it works on the Roamio:
> 
> - If the tuner is needed for a recording, the host will reclaim it with a prompt on the Mini to cancel the impending recording if they wish, just like a recording conflict. Unless the recording is actively cancelled, it'll reclaim the tuner.


That behavior is awesome and exactly the way it should work, in my opinion. Thanks for sharing that detail.


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## WRX09MD

Good work Tivo


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## swerver

Aww I liked the mini timeout functioning as an auto sleep function since I use it on my bedroom tv. So now tivo has responded to the squeaky wheels on that issue, but it's introduced a new problem for others... why not just make it configurable?

That said I do appreciate the info about the update.


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## rsnaider

20.3.7.1a is the build, just got the update.


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## davezatz

TiVoMargret said:


> - TiVo Mini now waits 4 hours (instead of 90 minutes) of no remote control activity before prompting the user and then timing out of live TV and showing a screen saver


Amen, sister! And thanks for breaking the changes down.


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## Dan203

Installing now for me.

Edit: Done. Will know tonight if the padding thing is fixed. Thursday is one of my busy nights with lots of back to back recordings with padding.


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## sbiller

My Mini now has *What to Watch Now* and *Manage Recordings & Downloads* now appearing in TiVo Central.

Software Version: 20.3.7.1a-01-6-A92
Flash Player: quattro-2-6/2013.09.04-1005
HD Menu: b-iris-quattro-2-6/2013.10.08-1929


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## rainwater

sbiller said:


> My Mini now has *What to Watch Now* and *Manage Recordings & Downloads* now appearing in TiVo Central.


My guess is Manage Recordings will disappear soon. It seems to appear for some users right after an upgrade but disappears soon after. I hope I am wrong because I really would love a way to manage season passes and recordings from a Mini.


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## Goober96

rainwater said:


> My guess is Manage Recordings will disappear soon. It seems to appear for some users right after an upgrade but disappears soon after. I hope I am wrong because I really would love a way to manage season passes and recordings from a Mini.


You already can by pressing 1 (SPM) or 2 (TDL) from TiVo Central.


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## rainwater

Goober96 said:


> You already can by pressing 1 (SPM) or 2 (TDL) from TiVo Central.


Yes, but most people don't know those shortcuts. I think they will eventually make it public but they keep hiding it from TiVo Central for some reason.


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## akaussie

cherry ghost said:


> This is the interesting one. Was the intention to use a single tuner when back-to-back recordings on the same channel overlap but it wasn't working properly and is now fixed? Or was it just a bug and two tuners will be used as usual?


It looks like recording was changed to remove the back to back on a single tuner recording. Had The Millers and The Crazy Ones recording back to back on CBS with padding and two tuners were used.


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## TiVoMargret

sbiller said:


> My Mini now has *What to Watch Now* and *Manage Recordings & Downloads* now appearing in TiVo Central.
> 
> Software Version: 20.3.7.1a-01-6-A92
> Flash Player: quattro-2-6/2013.09.04-1005
> HD Menu: b-iris-quattro-2-6/2013.10.08-1929


Ah, yes! (For some reason I thought Roamio/Mini had it with 20.3.6, so I didn't mention it.)

I should have included this line:

- TiVo Minis can now remotely manage the To Do List and Season Pass Manager of the host TiVo DVR (as long as the DVR is running 20.3.7.1 or later).


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## TiVoMargret

sbiller said:


> My Mini now has *What to Watch Now* and *Manage Recordings & Downloads* now appearing in TiVo Central.


And yes:
- "What to Watch Now" available from TiVo Central

(Went too fast responding to the last message.


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## TiVoMargret

Dan203 said:


> Is this the "fall update" for the Roamio/Mini? I know they already had most of the features that were being added to the Premiere so maybe there is no "fall update" for them? Just a few minor updates like this to fix bugs?


Yes, this is the "Fall Update". 20.3.7.1 will be available to TiVo Premiere boxes later this month. (http://www.tivo.com/priority to get your Premiere to the front the list.)

This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


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## innocentfreak

Update looks good. Thanks for the details. Loving the fast updates.



swerver said:


> Aww I liked the mini timeout functioning as an auto sleep function since I use it on my bedroom tv. So now tivo has responded to the squeaky wheels on that issue, but it's introduced a new problem for others... why not just make it configurable?
> 
> That said I do appreciate the info about the update.


Seems like one of those things that it would be nice to have a configurable option.


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## southerndoc

TiVoMargret said:


> This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


Interesting.

When will the UI's look similar on the Minis and the Roamio (instead of the Minis having the old look)?

Still no word on when remote streaming is going to be activated?


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## socrplyr

geekmedic said:


> Still no word on when remote streaming is going to be activated?


Maybe this....?


TiVoMargret said:


> This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


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## DarcyM

geekmedic said:


> Still no word on when remote streaming is going to be activated?


Pretty sure it's the streaming. Probably just need the switch flipped. Maybe even a configuration option from your device prefs screen on the website to allow outside the home streaming.


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## DarcyM

Mini still prompts if your there at 90 mins, and at 95 mins it times out. Seems the 4 hour time out didn't make the release or I am missing something.


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## markp99

TiVoMargret said:


> This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


You tease!


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## slowbiscuit

TiVoMargret said:


> We will be releasing an update later today for TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini.
> 
> Here is a list of some of the changes:
> - TiVo Mini now waits 4 hours (instead of 90 minutes) of no remote control activity before prompting the user and then timing out of live TV and showing a screen saver


Um, why not just let the user config what he/she wants instead of deciding what's good for everyone?


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## davezatz

slowbiscuit said:


> Um, why not just let the user config what he/she wants instead of deciding what's good for everyone?


Seems like a no brainer to me - many shows (like morning news), movies, and sporting events exceed 90 minutes. It's been an annoyance. Frankly, I'd prefer to see no screensaver and never exit to the TiVo home screen. When I turn on the TV, I expect to see TV. But, yeah, my perspective isn't everyone's or yours. So options would be nice, but probably not worth the dev effort for a small behavior that annoys only a few of us (in one direction or the other).


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## sbiller

davezatz said:


> Seems like a no brainer to me - many shows (like morning news), movies, and sporting events exceed 90 minutes. It's been an annoyance. Frankly, I'd prefer to see no screensaver and never exit to the TiVo home screen. When I turn on the TV, I expect to see TV. But, yeah, my perspective isn't everyone's or yours. So options would be nice, but probably not worth the dev effort for a small behavior that annoys only a few of us (in one direction or the other).


It would be great if the Mini could detect the TV being turned off and release the tuner. Given the number of HDMI issues TiVo has been correcting I suspect that is a risky approach and we will need to settle for the current longer timeout. I'm guessing that somewhere on the TiVo roadmap is the configurable timeouts. If one of TiVo's MSO partners starts to scream it could get elevated but I'm guessing its a don't cafe for the majority of 6-tuner T6/Plus/Pro users.


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## pbubel

sbiller said:


> Hi Margret,
> 
> We very much appreciate the detailed change log!
> 
> ~Sam


Couldn't agree more, these are great . Thanks Margret.


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## socrplyr

davezatz said:


> Seems like a no brainer to me - many shows (like morning news), movies, and sporting events exceed 90 minutes. It's been an annoyance. Frankly, I'd prefer to see no screensaver and never exit to the TiVo home screen. When I turn on the TV, I expect to see TV. But, yeah, my perspective isn't everyone's or yours. So options would be nice, but probably not worth the dev effort for a small behavior that annoys only a few of us (in one direction or the other).


I actually think it should go the other way. When you sit down at the main box, it should work exactly like the Mini (releasing the tuner, etc.). I have already had issues where it is recording 5 things (mostly suggestions) and I can't get a tuner with the Mini, because the main DVR is "using" the 6th. I then have to go in and pick a recording to cancel, which frees up a tuner so I can watch live TV. In the same line of thinking, just like the main box, when a Mini requests a tuner, a suggestion should automatically be cancelled. In a household with more than a couple of Minis your suggestion just flat out doesn't work, as there are not enough tuners to permanently give them to each Mini.


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## sac84371

I have the update applied and still it times out at 90min. Just an FYI on the Mini hosted by a Roamio Plus....


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## Smirks

geekmedic said:


> When will the UI's look similar on the Minis and the Roamio (instead of the Minis having the old look)?


It'd be nice if the mini was smart enough to know it was working with a Roamio and use the Roamio's UI theme.


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## anthonymoody

Yummy! Thanks for keeping us informed Margret. 

Now, please launch the App Store!


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## davezatz

sbiller said:


> It would be great if the Mini could detect the TV being turned off and release the tuner. Given the number of HDMI issues TiVo has been correcting I suspect that is a risky approach and we will need to settle for the current longer timeout.


And/or this supports Ben Drawbaugh's desire for HDMI-CEC. Guess that'd be the Mini 2.


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## aaronwt

Smirks said:


> It'd be nice if the mini was smart enough to know it was working with a Roamio and use the Roamio's UI theme.


They are supposed to update the Mini UI to look like the Roamio UI. No idea when that will happen though.


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## sanyewest

got new Update 20.3.7.1 everything working great, but still no new fimewave upgrade. i do have 5 working tuner n rec on all 5. love my roamio plus great work moargret


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## swerver

davezatz said:


> So options would be nice, but probably not worth the dev effort for a small behavior that annoys only a few of us (in one direction or the other).


Except they already felt it was important enough to spend dev effort - they just didn't really improve anything, just picked a side.


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## tcorning

cherry ghost said:


> This is the interesting one. Was the intention to use a single tuner when back-to-back recordings on the same channel overlap but it wasn't working properly and is now fixed? Or was it just a bug and two tuners will be used as usual?


If this is what I'm thinking, here's an example. Have a SP for a show that is on twice in a row on a channel, for example Modern Family in syndication these days. Pad the SP to record a minute over, since the final scene often gets cut off. What I would see was that on the second recording there would be a video/audio glitch at the one minute mark when the first recording would have been ending. So it was using two tuners due to the padding, and something was causing a glitch. It sounds like the glitching is fixed.


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## mchief

Got the update and my signal strength went back to peaked at 100%. Spent hours yesterday with Tivo CSR and Comcast Cable Card folks trying to figure our why 3 tuners died (not authorized message). Tivo says signal too hot. Brought the signal down with splitters to 87-95 on all 6 tuners and within 10 minutes all tuners were working again. Apparently signal strength is a problem. Now back to where I was yesterday. Why would a software update peak the tuners again? More splitters and then attenuators.


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## kbmb

tcorning said:


> If this is what I'm thinking, here's an example. Have a SP for a show that is on twice in a row on a channel, for example Modern Family in syndication these days. Pad the SP to record a minute over, since the final scene often gets cut off. What I would see was that on the second recording there would be a video/audio glitch at the one minute mark when the first recording would have been ending. So it was using two tuners due to the padding, and something was causing a glitch. It sounds like the glitching is fixed.


If you looked at the tuners prior to the update, Tivo was NOT using a second tuner for the second recording. What is sounds like they were trying to do (and it wasn't working well) was use one tuner and then have the software split the file. This was causing the glitches and the missed recordings.

You can test now.....just set 2 back to back recordings on a single channel with the first overlapping the second. If you watch at the point when the next show starts....if the Tivo uses 2 tuners now, then they changed the behavior.

-Kevin


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## kbmb

mchief said:


> Got the update and my signal strength went back to peaked at 100%. Spent hours yesterday with Tivo CSR and Comcast Cable Card folks trying to figure our why 3 tuners died (not authorized message). Tivo says signal too hot. Brought the signal down with splitters to 87-95 on all 6 tuners and within 10 minutes all tuners were working again. Apparently signal strength is a problem. Now back to where I was yesterday. Why would a software update peak the tuners again? More splitters and then attenuators.


I've seen some weird things with the Tivo reporting signal levels. I'm guessing they are back because of the reboot and the way the tuners read the signal. I have no idea though. I have my experiences in this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=509154

I saw the other day where I had a few channels show a lower signal level....by just unplugging and plugging in the cable in the basement, magically the signal levels for those channels went back up.

I also don't understand why some people have issues with tuners and 100% signal levels and others don't.

-Kevin


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## vurbano

hidden goodness? out of network streaming turned on for beta users or by a code?


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## Grakthis

swerver said:


> Except they already felt it was important enough to spend dev effort - they just didn't really improve anything, just picked a side.


Switching 90 to 240 is not effort.

Adding a new menu and a configurable value is.


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## jmpage2

Thanks again Margret for keeping us in the know on what the updates contain. Hope you guys (in conjunction with other companies) have some "app goodness" for us before year's end given the under-the-hood horsepower of the new platform.


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## markp99

vurbano said:


> Out of network streaming turned on for beta users or by a code?


Tried it just for kicks, but probably need a new iOS app too.


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## TiVoMargret

DarcyM said:


> Mini still prompts if your there at 90 mins, and at 95 mins it times out. Seems the 4 hour time out didn't make the release or I am missing something.


Sorry, there is a Service change we forgot to make. It is in process. I will let you know when it is working.


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## TC25D

swerver said:


> Except they already felt it was important enough to spend dev effort - they just didn't really improve anything, just picked a side.


Perhaps TiVo could exclude you from this update.


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## wco81

OK, circumstantial but it looks like my Roamio Plus is no longer downloading a couple of video podcasts that I had as wish lists.

One is The Vergecast and I recovered the one from last week that I had deleted after watching. When I go into it in My Shows, it say I can no longer make this a wish list item.

So the new firmware doesn't support "subscribing" to get these downloaded automatically?

I tried searching (which is how I originally found that they were available through Tivo) and they don't even show up in the search results.


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## Eradik

TiVoMargret said:


> This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


While I doubt it, I'm hoping it's the framework for an Android Stream update.... 

Thank you for the detailed log. I appreciate it!


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## akaussie

kbmb said:


> If you looked at the tuners prior to the update, Tivo was NOT using a second tuner for the second recording. What is sounds like they were trying to do (and it wasn't working well) was use one tuner and then have the software split the file. This was causing the glitches and the missed recordings.
> 
> You can test now.....just set 2 back to back recordings on a single channel with the first overlapping the second. If you watch at the point when the next show starts....if the Tivo uses 2 tuners now, then they changed the behavior.
> 
> -Kevin


As I described in an earlier post Tivo appears to have changed the behavior so now two tuners are used on back to back records on the same channel.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9860022#post9860022


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## DarcyM

TiVoMargret said:


> Sorry, there is a Service change we forgot to make. It is in process. I will let you know when it is working.


Thanks very much for letting us know when it does go into effect!


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## moyekj

TiVoMargret said:


> Sorry, there is a Service change we forgot to make. It is in process. I will let you know when it is working.


 Since it can be set in the back end ideally at some point there should be a setting as part of our account where we can change this through web site to our liking.


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## Joe Siegler

TiVoMargret said:


> - fixed the occasional loud burst of static


This one freaked out my cats and my kids!


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## shortcut3d

Still getting pixelation on back to back recordings. It's brief and does not cause a pause or audio loss.


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## TiVoMargret

TiVoMargret said:


> Sorry, there is a Service change we forgot to make. It is in process. I will let you know when it is working.


Ok, it should work now. (You might need to connect to the TiVo Service once to get the change.)

--Margret


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## davezatz

Eradik said:


> While I doubt it, I'm hoping it's the framework for an Android Stream update....


No Android streaming until 2014, sorry.


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## crxssi

davezatz said:


> No Android streaming until 2014, sorry.


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## lessd

After this update I had to re-sign in to my Netflix account on my Roamio +, I also lost my place on Netflix (was easy to find but was an extra step). Have others saw this, or was I just lucky.


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## anthonymoody

lessd said:


> After this update I had to re-sign in to my Netflix account on my Roamio +, I also lost my place on Netflix (was easy to find but was an extra step). Have others saw this, or was I just lucky.


I had to re sign into Netflix on my Plus as well. Not sure what you mean by losing your place. Do you mean what point you were at in a paused show?

Btw any word whether the Netflix profiles UI is coming to Tivo? It's a really nice improvement IMO. PS3 and ATV both have it.


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## slowbiscuit

TC25D said:


> Perhaps TiVo could exclude you from this update.


Jeez man, stop being such a fanboy. It's a valid beef.


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## bobfrank

TiVoMargret said:


> - TiVo Minis can now remotely manage the To Do List and Season Pass Manager of the host TiVo DVR (as long as the DVR is running 20.3.7.1 or later).


Wishlist management is also now available from the menu or using the "3" shortcut.


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## lessd

anthonymoody said:


> I had to re sign into Netflix on my Plus as well. Not sure what you mean by losing your place. Do you mean what point you were at in a paused show?
> 
> Btw any word whether the Netflix profiles UI is coming to Tivo? It's a really nice improvement IMO. PS3 and ATV both have it.


I was watching a Netflix TV series and I was into year 5 E3, when I signed in I was back to year 1 E1, it was easy to get back to year 5 E3 but it was extra steps. Does every update force you to sign back into Netflix ??


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## patrickthickey

davezatz said:


> No Android streaming until 2014, sorry.


 

Damn, there are an overwhelming number of Android devices. We know it is do-able as Comcast supports it cleanly, DirectTV is spotty but it sometimes works.

patrick


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## Dan203

That should be remembered by Netflix's server. I use multiple devices to access Netflix and it remembers my place no matter which one I use, so this must be stored on the Netflix servers somewhere.


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## TC25D

slowbiscuit said:


> Jeez man, stop being such a fanboy. It's a valid beef.


It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy. Swerver, and you, got your panties in a twist because TiVo decided to make it better but didn't implement what you wanted the first time.


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## 1283

TiVoMargret said:


> - fixed several issues related to HDMI and various TVs where the UI/video would not display when the TV was turned on, or the box frequently rebooted when the TV was off


Just got my Roamio yesterday, and it downloaded the latest software. I have experienced blank screens twice which required "standby->out of standby" to restore. I have not found a way to reproduce it.


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## Devx

TiVoMargret said:


> ...This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


For *all* Roamios? There's a difference. 

Either way, I appreciate the continued transparency and hope you can keep it up.


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## HDRyder9

I got the latest update like everyone else. Unfortunately, now I only have 5 tuners that operate. Even more strange, if I have selected a tuner with the V58 error, and try to change it to another channel Tivo changes one of the other tuners to the channel I selected and leaves the broken tuner still on a non working channel.

Basically, I'm done to 5 tuners and I can only tune 4 of them.


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## slowbiscuit

TC25D said:


> It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy. Swerver, and you, got your panties in a twist because TiVo decided to make it better but didn't implement what you wanted the first time.


It may or may not be better depending on what timeout (or none) that you want for the Mini and live TV. But disparaging people asking for a simple option to pick the timeout you want, along with all your other posts defending anything Tivo does, makes you a fanboy.


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## tre74

HDRyder9 said:


> I got the latest update like everyone else. Unfortunately, now I only have 5 tuners that operate. Even more strange, if I have selected a tuner with the V58 error, and try to change it to another channel Tivo changes one of the other tuners to the channel I selected and leaves the broken tuner still on a non working channel.
> 
> Basically, I'm done to 5 tuners and I can only tune 4 of them.


I had something similar happen to my base Roamio the other day. One tuner was stuck to channel 9. This was strange because I am OTA and that channel does not exist. I tried changing the channel but it would stay put on that tuner and would change the others. So, I started recordings on each of the other tuners to lock them in place and then was able to change from the mystery channel on the last tuner and started a recording on a different channel to see if it would stay put. That seemed to do the trick. I'd never seen or heard of such a thing. My Premiere had some horrible quirks. The new Roamio has some new and freakier issues, but I still like it.


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## TC25D

slowbiscuit said:


> ...people asking for a simple option to pick the timeout you want, along with all your other posts defending anything Tivo does, makes you a fanboy.


This isn't what swerver did. He was rude.



slowbiscuit said:


> ... along with all your other posts defending anything Tivo does, makes you a fanboy.


Someone has to offset the juvenile whining.

/end


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## elwaylite

Glad to see the Amazon fix!


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## nooneuknow

slowbiscuit said:


> It may or may not be better depending on what timeout (or none) that you want for the Mini and live TV. But disparaging people asking for a simple option to pick the timeout you want, along with all your other posts defending anything Tivo does, makes you a fanboy.


Just a "heads-up": Engaging in argument with TC25D is a waste of time, will only escalate, until he complains to a mod and/or reports your post(s), and you could end up on a temporary ban from the forums.

While I DID have a pattern of "bickering with multiple members", as the ban stated, I had also reconciled with many VIA PM, which the mods would not know (unless they read private IMs), nor would any other members.

In all fairness, I WAS given a public warning, by a mod, tried to just lay-low, and post helpful info in the HDD Upgrade Info thread, then slipped up and sniped back at TC25D. I was then in the process of a step-by-step guide for a certain drive model, for new member, which was never posted, because the ban had been placed while I spent a good chunk of time typing it up. The offending post, in response to TC25D, that resulted in the ban was removed by the mod.

This isn't intended as an attack on TC25D, but a warning to all, that out of all the "bickering" I had been involved in, this newcomer, with a rapidly rising post count, and their own patterns I have been observing, which I would consider "inciting bickering", is somebody who you may want to just consider placing on your "ignore" list. I have yet to see any posts from them that make me feel I'd be missing out on anything of value by doing so myself.

I've been told, via PM, by a few members, that they don't ignore me, because I have posted a lot that they have found of value, in technical matters, which they found helpful, or just didn't know before. I was also told that I should just ignore fanboy posts, and stop feeding the trolls. I really should have taken their advice.

Maybe I'll get back to how I used to be, and resist the urge to reply to everything directed at me. For now, I'm just lurking, and wishing I wasn't such an easy target, no matter what I post. I'm ashamed of some of my past and petty arguments, which will always be there for all to see.

This is my first post, since the ban, which ended weeks ago. I just don't want anybody else, to take the bait and find themselves in the same situation I did.

Also, since the majority of activity on here is now Roamio-related, I can't offer much, as I don't have one (yet). I'm one of those people who are gnashing their teeth over TiVo putting nearly all their effort into a new product, and releasing a record number of updates, in a record amount of time, while leaving so much unresolved with the Premiere. I'll likely remain silent, from this post-forward, until the fall Premiere update rolls, and a thread for it begins.


----------



## nooneuknow

Slightly on-topic post:

Am I the ONLY Premiere owner that experienced the SAME and EXACT issues with Fox, trickplay, missed recordings on NON-SDV channels due to black screen, and so on?

I've been waiting for some sort of a thread to crossover between platforms.

Posting in a Premiere sub-thread would give this type of scenario little exposure, and certainly wouldn't be noticed by the TiVo deity, known as tivomargret.

Posting here, resolves that, but is only on-topic, in the sense of the issues. I'm posting, because TiVo hasn't been slinging updates or providing any real support for the Premiere (and they never did give such a level of priority to the Premiere throughout it's lifetime, in either respect).

If nobody makes sure they know (a little help here, tivomargret?), that the SAME THINGS *can* manifest on the Premiere platform, how can those of use lacking the funds to upgrade, make sure we also get the same issues resolved?

I found the many reports of the problems NOT happening for people who kept their Premieres in service, after buying a Roamio, discouraging. So, I hoped me experiencing them would be an isolated issue, and might not repeat. Well, it has, several times.

It was the same dates and the same premier episodes of programs, that I experienced the same things being reported ONLY in the Roamio sub-forums. The same kind of sporadic issues after those dates and programs. Now, it's happening less, but enough to make sure to schedule some programs on multiple TiVos, just in case. The Fox and trickplay issues affected every Premiere in the time-window that it did on Roamios, spawning multiple threads here, but ONLY in the Roamio sub-forums. Now, it's hit-and-miss, which units experience these issues, or don't. The issues with trickplay actually started, sporadically, before the date/programs reported around the Roamio areas...

Any suggestions on where and how a "crossover" issue thread belongs?

I feel certain, if they were able to squash these issues with the Roamio, they should also to be able to on the Premiere. I just don't see a right place for this, so I'm putting it here, where I know there are many eyes checking in often, especially tivomargret.

I'm trying my best to not come across as a complainer, or somebody who feels entitled to everything the new product has, for free. I just want to be sure that this fall update is not the last. I'm 99.999% certain, that there are no fixes in there for issues, of which this post seems to be the first reporting of.


----------



## sbiller

nooneuknow said:


> Slightly on-topic post:
> 
> Am I the ONLY Premiere owner that experienced the SAME and EXACT issues with Fox, trickplay, missed recordings on SDV due to black screen, and so on?
> 
> I've been waiting for some sort of a thread to crossover between platforms.
> 
> Posting in a Premiere sub-thread would give this type of scenario little exposure, and certainly wouldn't be noticed by the TiVo deity, known as tivomargret.
> 
> Posting here, resolves that, but is only on-topic, in the sense of the issues. I'm posting, because TiVo hasn't been slinging updates or providing any real support for the Premiere (and they never did give such a level of priority to the Premiere throughout it's lifetime, in either respect).
> 
> If nobody makes sure they know (a little help here, tivomargret?), that the SAME THINGS *can* manifest on the Premiere platform, how can those of use lacking the funds to upgrade, make sure we also get the same issues resolved?
> 
> I found the many reports of the problems NOT happening for people who kept their Premieres in service, after buying a Roamio, discouraging. So, I hoped me experiencing them would be an isolated issue, and might not repeat. Well, it has, several times.
> 
> It was the same dates and the same premier episodes of programs, that I experienced the same things only being reported ONLY in the Roamio sub-forums. The same kind of sporadic issues after those dates and programs. Now, it's happening less, but enough to make sure to schedule some programs on multiple TiVos, just in case. The Fox and trickplay issues affected every Premiere in the time-window that it did on Roamios, spawning multiple threads here, but ONLY in the Roamio sub-forums. Now, it's hit-and-miss, which units experience these issues, or don't. The issues with trickplay actually started, sporadically, before the date/programs reported around the Roamio areas...
> 
> Any suggestions on where and how a "crossover" issue thread belongs?
> 
> I feel certain, if they were able to squash these issues with the Roamio, they should also to be able to on the Premiere. I just don't see a right place for this, so I'm putting it here, where I know there are many eyes checking in often, especially tivomargret.
> 
> I'm trying my best to not come across as a complainer, or somebody who feels entitled to everything the new product has, for free. I just want to be sure that this fall update is not the last. I'm 99.999% certain, that there are no fixes in there for issues, of which this post seems to be the first reporting of.


Not sure whether you've seen the other thread related to the identified Cisco Tuning Adapter problem. Any fix to the Cisco firmware will help Premiere and Roamio users.


----------



## nooneuknow

sbiller said:


> Not sure whether you've seen the other thread related to the identified Cisco Tuning Adapter problem. Any fix to the Cisco firmware will help Premiere and Roamio users.


I am aware, unless there's more threads about it than I have already subbed to. Thanks for pointing it out, anyway. I'll poke around.

I knew as soon as I saw the letters SDV, in my post, while now reviewing it, that I was likely making it sound like it was easy to pin it all on the TA (I meant to say non-SDV). Fox isn't SDV for me, nor is 99% of my lineup. It's a handful of channels, like anything owned by Discovery Network, BBC America, and the rest being non-English, that are SDV, but they are slowly moving more (rather than drop analog, on their 1GHz network).

I'm going to fix that post error, because it was a mistake, since SDV problems are Cox/TA, and not TiVo (or very little to do with TiVo). I don't know why I even mentioned it, other than trying to avoid not making everybody think SDV was involved with the problems. Brain-fart moment.


----------



## bbrown9

Football sometimes runs late so I have gotten into the habit of padding The Good Wife out for an extra hour just in case. 

Tonight, I got two recordings. One with the title "The Good Wife" that started on time and ran for the original 1 hour that the show would normally be on. The second recording had the title "REC: 504 WBZDT 9:30pm" and ran for two hours. Usually when we pad a recording, there is only one recording and it is for the amount of tie you would expect. 

This extra recording with an odd name is new behavior. I suspect it's a new bug introduced by the fix for the back-to-back recording issue.


----------



## rainwater

bbrown9 said:


> Football sometimes runs late so I have gotten into the habit of padding The Good Wife out for an extra hour just in case.
> 
> Tonight, I got two recordings. One with the title "The Good Wife" that started on time and ran for the original 1 hour that the show would normally be on. The second recording had the title "REC: 504 WBZDT 9:30pm" and ran for two hours. Usually when we pad a recording, there is only one recording and it is for the amount of tie you would expect.
> 
> This extra recording with an odd name is new behavior. I suspect it's a new bug introduced by the fix for the back-to-back recording issue.


Are you sure you are someone else in your house didn't create a manual recording by time and channel? That is what it looks like based on the recording name. Of course it could be some type of bug but I have never seen such a bug.


----------



## JWhites

TiVoMargret said:


> We will be releasing an update later today for TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini.
> 
> Here is a list of some of the changes:
> - TiVo Mini now waits 4 hours (instead of 90 minutes) of no remote control activity before prompting the user and then timing out of live TV and showing a screen saver
> - new RF Remote Pairing screen for TiVo Roamio (Settings > Remote)
> - fixed audio delay of 10+ seconds when unpausing a Netflix video with Dolby Digital+
> - fixed macro-blocking of Amazon downloads
> - fixed the occasional loud burst of static
> - fixed several issues related to HDMI and various TVs where the UI/video would not display when the TV was turned on, or the box frequently rebooted when the TV was off
> - improved the behavior of the RF remote in areas with WiFi interference
> - fixed a MoCA encryption incompatibility between Roamio and Mini
> - fixed issues related to overlapping recordings causing missed recordings and A/V glitching
> 
> The update should probably be available sometime after 4pm PT.


So....when are we going to see a *detailed* changelog for the Fall 2013 update for the TiVo Premiere since nothing here touches on the wide variety of problems that is plaguing the Premiere.


----------



## JWhites

geekmedic said:


> Interesting.
> 
> When will the UI's look similar on the Minis and the Roamio (instead of the Minis having the old look)?
> 
> Still no word on when remote streaming is going to be activated?


There was a mention on DavidZatz website http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-10/tivo-premiere-fall-update-cometh/ about the Roamio UI being rolled out to MSO (RCN in particular) Premieres via a twitter post

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/380175886223671296 but makes no specific mention (only speculation) and there has been no confirmation (or even vague mention) from Margret that it will be rolled out to retail Premieres as well. If TiVo _does_ allow the Roamio UI on Premieres, that would surprise and please me, since according to the Roamio FAQ it's never gonna happen.
Q: A new UI look and feel has been introduced on TiVo Roamio. Will a TiVo Premiere have access to this new look? Can I download it to a previous TiVo box?

A: No, the new look and feel is only available on the TiVo Roamio platform and will not be downloadable to any previous TiVo DVRs. The UI looks slightly different but the functionality and menus are exactly the same.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> So....when are we going to see a *detailed* changelog for the Fall 2013 update for the TiVo Premiere since nothing here touches on the wide variety of problems that is plaguing the Premiere.


+1 :up:

[begin OT Premiere-related rant]

I'm happy to see somebody else has the balls to be asking some of the same things I would like answered, as well, and place them in a thread that TiVo is monitoring and posting in.

I'm not trying to hijack a thread. But, unless it's in a Roamio thread, these questions would likely never even be seen (at least not by TiVo).

TiVo seems to have "put all their eggs in one basket", the Roamio basket, while also leaving the Premiere owners with an empty basket, and not letting us know what happened to our eggs, or if they'll ever fix the hole in the bottom.

While I applaud TiVo's extreme shift in addressing bugs, in record speed, and quantity (for the Roamio), the Premiere NEVER got such resources/effort, especially even when the Premiere was a new product.

I do know WHY. TiVo is banking on MSO partnerships, with the Roamio. They HAVE TO keep their MSO partners and their respective customers happy, so they are stepping up their game. Since the hardware is the same, any bug fix for MSO partners, can also apply to retail customers.

When will we see detailed changelogs, which by existing at all, are an admission of issues/bugs with the Premiere platform? I think the true answer is "NEVER". They have few, if any, MSOs using them, and can get away with denying issues and bugs, by NOT providing such changelogs.

EDIT/ADD: Historically, TiVo has always denied bugs existed, unless they were absolutely certain they had a fix ready to roll. Even then, the only ones who were aware that a bug was known and being resolved by TiVo, were the beta testing participants, who were bound by an NDA to not speak of the inside knowledge they gained by participating, and any such acknowledgments. Then the update would roll, and most of the changelog data, if presented, amounted to "improvements" and/or "new features", if a changelog was even provided. Many have been griping about this for years, going all the way back to the S3/HD. Yet, again, I do applaud what TiVo is doing for the Roamio. I'm just not holding my breath on them shifting much effort to Premiere platforms, even once the Roamio rush has settled-down, nor over hope that they'll start acknowledging bugs and/or providing detailed changelogs for them either...

[end of Premiere-related rant]

Note: Any fanboy snipes or otherwise unproductive responses will be ignored. If I choose to ignore, it is not an admission that I agree, or concede.


----------



## ilkevinli

This section of the forums is for the Roamio not the Premiere.



nooneuknow said:


> +1 :up:
> 
> [begin OT Premiere-related rant]
> 
> I'm happy to see somebody else has the balls to be asking some of the same things I would like answered, as well, and place them in a thread that TiVo is monitoring and posting in.
> 
> I'm not trying to hijack a thread. But, unless it's in a Roamio thread, these questions would likely never even be seen (at least not by TiVo).
> 
> TiVo seems to have "put all their eggs in one basket", the Roamio basket, while also leaving the Premiere owners with an empty basket, and not letting us know what happened to our eggs, or if they'll ever fix the hole in the bottom.
> 
> While I applaud TiVo's extreme shift in addressing bugs, in record speed, and quantity (for the Roamio), the Premiere NEVER got such resources/effort, especially even when the Premiere was a new product.
> 
> I do know WHY. TiVo is banking on MSO partnerships, with the Roamio. They HAVE TO keep their MSO partners and their respective customers happy, so they are stepping up their game. Since the hardware is the same, any bug fix for MSO partners, can also apply to retail customers.
> 
> When will we see detailed changelogs, which by existing at all, are an admission of issues/bugs with the Premiere platform? I think the true answer is "NEVER". They have few, if any, MSOs using them, and can get away with denying issues and bugs, by NOT providing such changelogs.
> 
> EDIT/ADD: Historically, TiVo has always denied bugs existed, unless they were absolutely certain they had a fix ready to roll. Even then, the only ones who were aware that a bug was known and being resolved by TiVo, were the beta testing participants, who were bound by an NDA to not speak of the inside knowledge they gained by participating, and any such acknowledgments. Then the update would roll, and most of the changelog data, if presented, amounted to "improvements" and/or "new features", if a changelog was even provided. Many have been griping about this for years, going all the way back to the S3/HD. Yet, again, I do applaud what TiVo is doing for the Roamio. I'm just not holding my breath on them shifting much effort to Premiere platforms, even once the Roamio rush has settled-down, nor over hope that they'll start acknowledging bugs and/or providing detailed changelogs for them either...
> 
> [end of Premiere-related rant]
> 
> Note: Any fanboy snipes or otherwise unproductive responses will be ignored. If I choose to ignore, it is not an admission that I agree, or concede.


----------



## southerndoc

JWhites said:


> There was a mention on DavidZatz website http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-10/tivo-premiere-fall-update-cometh/ about the Roamio UI being rolled out to MSO (RCN in particular) Premieres via a twitter post
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/380175886223671296 but makes no specific mention (only speculation) and there has been no confirmation (or even vague mention) from Margret that it will be rolled out to retail Premieres as well. If TiVo _does_ allow the Roamio UI on Premieres, that would surprise and please me, since according to the Roamio FAQ it's never gonna happen.
> Q: A new UI look and feel has been introduced on TiVo Roamio. Will a TiVo Premiere have access to this new look? Can I download it to a previous TiVo box?
> 
> A: No, the new look and feel is only available on the TiVo Roamio platform and will not be downloadable to any previous TiVo DVRs. The UI looks slightly different but the functionality and menus are exactly the same.


I was referring to the new UI on the Mini, not the Premiere.


----------



## bbrown9

rainwater said:


> Are you sure you are someone else in your house didn't create a manual recording by time and channel? That is what it looks like based on the recording name. Of course it could be some type of bug but I have never seen such a bug.


Yes, I'm sure. My husband actually changed it for me this time and I was watching. He went into the recording either through the guide or todo list, I can't remember how he got there, but I saw him set the stop recording time to 1 hour longer.

We never record anything by time and channel. I couldn't even tell you how to get to the menu screen for that.


----------



## JWhites

geekmedic said:


> I was referring to the new UI on the Mini, not the Premiere.


Oh. I think it still is affected though.


----------



## uw69

Out of home streaming would sure be nice, I could use it right now!


----------



## swerver

TC25D said:


> It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy. Swerver, and you, got your panties in a twist because TiVo decided to make it better but didn't implement what you wanted the first time.





TC25D said:


> This isn't what swerver did. He was rude.
> Someone has to offset the juvenile whining.
> /end


Here's what I said.



swerver said:


> Aww I liked the mini timeout functioning as an auto sleep function since I use it on my bedroom tv. So now tivo has responded to the squeaky wheels on that issue, but it's introduced a new problem for others... why not just make it configurable?
> 
> That said I do appreciate the info about the update.


Where's the rude part? All I did was express my dissatisfaction, in much the same way that a chorus of users did about the timeout being too short (actually there were many comments much harsher than mine in that thread), and now the feature has been changed because of them doing that. What's the problem again? I love tivo but they are not above criticism. But thanks for your insightful comments.


----------



## anthonymoody

lessd said:


> I was watching a Netflix TV series and I was into year 5 E3, when I signed in I was back to year 1 E1, it was easy to get back to year 5 E3 but it was extra steps. Does every update force you to sign back into Netflix ??


It seemed to remember my places when I signed back in. That said, I didn't dive deep bc I prefer the UI on the PS3 and use it for most of my streaming services.


----------



## mrbubbles

bbrown9 said:


> Football sometimes runs late so I have gotten into the habit of padding The Good Wife out for an extra hour just in case.
> 
> Tonight, I got two recordings. One with the title "The Good Wife" that started on time and ran for the original 1 hour that the show would normally be on. The second recording had the title "REC: 504 WBZDT 9:30pm" and ran for two hours. Usually when we pad a recording, there is only one recording and it is for the amount of tie you would expect.
> 
> This extra recording with an odd name is new behavior. I suspect it's a new bug introduced by the fix for the back-to-back recording issue.


The exact same thing happened to me. It must be a new bug.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

One thing we still haven't seen is the "3-column filter" for My Shows they talked about at Roamio's launch. Guess that's been pushed back.

If it's anything like What to Watch Now, then I'm not gonna be impressed. I'd greatly prefer Profiles.


----------



## lessd

anthonymoody said:


> It seemed to remember my places when I signed back in. That said, I didn't dive deep bc I prefer the UI on the PS3 and use it for most of my streaming services.


Netflix has always remembered my place until this last Roamio update, when I had to sign back into Netflix, it had my correct view list but did not know what I had watched last so it was starting from the beginning Y1 E1, I was at year 5 E4, it is working OK now.


----------



## sbiller

BigJimOutlaw said:


> One thing we still haven't seen is the "3-column filter" for My Shows they talked about at Roamio's launch. Guess that's been pushed back.
> 
> If it's anything like What to Watch Now, then I'm not gonna be impressed. I'd greatly prefer Profiles.


Great point. That might be the "goodie" Margret is referring too.


----------



## elwaylite

ilkevinli said:


> This section of the forums is for the Roamio not the Premiere.


You noticed that too huh?


----------



## markp99

TiVoMargret said:


> This update does have some additional hidden goodness for Roamio, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.


Oooohhhh, This makes so much more sense now!


----------



## jcthorne

Speaking of goodies from Tivo, anyone heard anything about a consolidated now playing list recently? They said it was in the works, would sure be a nice upgrade.


----------



## aaronwt

jcthorne said:


> Speaking of goodies from Tivo, anyone heard anything about a consolidated now playing list recently? They said it was in the works, would sure be a nice upgrade.


The My Shows list is already unwieldy with a 3TB drive. I wouldn't want it consolidated with another TiVo.

I will be glad if/when they implement profiles. It would make the management of the My Shows list so much easier.


----------



## jrtroo

jcthorne said:


> Speaking of goodies from Tivo, anyone heard anything about a consolidated now playing list recently? They said it was in the works, would sure be a nice upgrade.


I don't remember this and the new Roamio seems to make that irrelevant. Do you have a reference?


----------



## Dan203

jcthorne said:


> Speaking of goodies from Tivo, anyone heard anything about a consolidated now playing list recently? They said it was in the works, would sure be a nice upgrade.


Do you mean consolidating Now Playing from multiple TiVos? If so I've never heard anyone say that was in the works and I seriously doubt it's ever going to happen.


----------



## zordude

Anyone else having MRV issues since the update? I can see the other Roamio and delete shows, but not stream


----------



## crxssi

aaronwt said:


> The My Shows list is already unwieldy with a 3TB drive. I wouldn't want it consolidated with another TiVo.


Tell me about it. What we need are *CUSTOM FOLDERS*


----------



## Philmatic

jcthorne said:


> Speaking of goodies from Tivo, anyone heard anything about a consolidated now playing list recently? They said it was in the works, would sure be a nice upgrade.


The concept of a single Roamio "hub" with multiple Mini's make this much less appealing to the 95% of people who will only have one TiVo with a tuner in their household. If I was TiVo, I wouldn't waste precious development hours on that, aaronwt is not their target audience.


----------



## DarcyM

I would love to see co-operative recording where one unit is a "master" and then you have one or two as "slaves". The core tech is already there in the network remote control function, just the needed code to schedule each unit and I honest don't think it would be hard for them to code that up. Can you imagine having 12 or 18 tuners avail and making it easy to manage from one interface.


----------



## Dan203

We've talked about that before. There is a lot more to it then meets the eye. For example what happens if the network goes down? The master has no way to know if the slave TiVos are completely offline or if they simply lost their network connection but are still available to record. Or what if someone cancels a recording directly on one of the slave units, does it cease to record or does it get pushed off to another unit based on priority? There are a bunch of other small complications like this that could arise. Cooperative scheduling is something that seems simple in theory, but is much more complicated when you start to account for all the real world scenarios that could arise.


----------



## DarcyM

Dan203 said:


> We've talked about that before. There is a lot more to it then meets the eye. For example what happens if the network goes down? The master has no way to know if the slave TiVos are completely offline or if they simply lost their network connection but are still available to record. Or what if someone cancels a recording directly on one of the slave units, does it cease to record or does it get pushed off to another unit based on priority? There are a bunch of other small complications like this that could arise. Cooperative scheduling is something that seems simple in theory, but is much more complicated when you start to account for all the real world scenarios that could arise.


Your making it harder then it needs to be. The slaves could have a to-do list scheduled ahead of time, if the network goes down it shouldn't stop it from recording what it had in it's schedule. If someone cancels a recording it can prompt to ether cancel completely or try to reschedule it on another slave or master unit. If a slave is unreachable for a certain amount of time, the master could drop it off from being active and reschedule programs based on priority in the master to-do list. If the slave becomes active and checks in it can then respond to what the slave has recorded or not, or whats still scheduled on it to record. I guess since I have had experience in doing some multi-node computer programming in my younger days it just seems easier in my mind to do then it would for most.


----------



## rainwater

With TiVo focusing on the Roamio and Mini setup, cooperative scheduling is not going to be on their radar. It would not make any sense for it to be. It's a waste of time to discuss especially in this thread.


----------



## moyekj

Co-op scheduling is DOA now with 6 tuner units available with tunerless clients (Minis).


----------



## Dan203

DarcyM said:


> Your making it harder then it needs to be. The slaves could have a to-do list scheduled ahead of time, if the network goes down it shouldn't stop it from recording what it had in it's schedule. If someone cancels a recording it can prompt to ether cancel completely or try to reschedule it on another slave or master unit. If a slave is unreachable for a certain amount of time, the master could drop it off from being active and reschedule programs based on priority in the master to-do list. If the slave becomes active and checks in it can then respond to what the slave has recorded or not, or whats still scheduled on it to record. I guess since I have had experience in doing some multi-node computer programming in my younger days it just seems easier in my mind to do then it would for most.


But if they did it that way and the slave actually went down, as in could not record, then you may miss a higher priority recording. For example say you have three 2 tuner TiVos. Now say the master schedules recordings for shows priority 1 & 2, then the slaves get recordings 3 & 4 and 5 & 6 respectively. Now say a few hours before the recordings the TiVo with 3 & 4 drops off the network. What does the master do? Does it assume it's off line and move those recordings to the other slave, canceling 5 & 6? Or does it leave it as is and potentially miss 3 & 4 completely?

The schedule is dynamic, based both on priority and potential changes to data, having to rely on networked tuners for recordings presents all sorts of potential challenges. If you have a wired network and UPSes for all your TiVos it would probably work fine, but they have to consider all possible scenarios.

And with TiVos now coming with 6 tuners they really have no incentive to deal with those challenges.


----------



## Devx

zordude said:


> Anyone else having MRV issues since the update? I can see the other Roamio and delete shows, but not stream


I just checked when I saw this and it seems I was getting a V112 error streaming from the Plus to the Pro. It worked from the Pro to the Plus however. By the time I could get back to the Pro it's working again. Seems intermittent and I cannot reproduce. When I had the issue on the Pro it worked fine streaming from the Elite.


----------



## Devx

Did anyone else notice with this update that the System info screen is now reporting battery level of the standard RF remote?


----------



## tim1724

Devx said:


> Did anyone else notice with this update that the System info screen is now reporting battery level of the standard RF remote?


Yep.


----------



## 1283

Had my first freeze in less than 5 days of operation. No video, no response to remote and front panel buttons. Had to power cycle it. Recordings on all 6 tuners stopped at the same time when nobody was home.


----------



## JWhites

crxssi said:


> Tell me about it. What we need are CUSTOM FOLDERS


I completely disagree and feel it would just cause TiVo to screw things up  They are barely keeping things together, lets not add any *unnecessary *features into the mix that could turn the Roamio into another Premiere fiasco both performance wise and updatability wise. Let's not forget we're still waiting for them to complete the HD menus, and from what I've gathered they're trying to make both the Premiere and Roamio have the same UI, so that would mean the Premiere would have to get the same folder feature.
*Update post HAXE*: yay I was right. They brought the new UI to the Premiere.


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## JWhites

Devx said:


> Did anyone else notice with this update that the System info screen is now reporting battery level of the standard RF remote?


Awesome!


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## jcthorne

Philmatic said:


> The concept of a single Roamio "hub" with multiple Mini's make this much less appealing to the 95% of people who will only have one TiVo with a tuner in their household. If I was TiVo, I wouldn't waste precious development hours on that, aaronwt is not their target audience.


I think you would be surprised at the number of multi-TiVo vs TiVo/mini households. None the less, multi TiVo configurations are supported and indeed offer functionality a mini does not. Many have also found it cheaper to keep an old Premiere than sell it and replace with a mini for additional screens in the home.

TivoMargret did say the integrated NPL was coming, I need to go find the post, I remember it referred to a facebook or twitter posting which I do not use.


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## jcthorne

aaronwt said:


> The My Shows list is already unwieldy with a 3TB drive. I wouldn't want it consolidated with another TiVo.
> 
> I will be glad if/when they implement profiles. It would make the management of the My Shows list so much easier.


With judicious use of folders, I do not find it unwieldy at all. I admit custom folders could be far easier to implement and placing items in folders that exist as well. But it does work.


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## jcthorne

crxssi said:


> Tell me about it. What we need are *CUSTOM FOLDERS*


You can create custom folders now via pytivo. Would be nice if it was much easier to use and movement of files among folders was easier.


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## rainwater

jcthorne said:


> I think you would be surprised at the number of multi-TiVo vs TiVo/mini households.


TiVo doesn't care about multi-TiVo households. They are in the business of selling Roamio's and Minis as a whole home solution to cable MSOs. The stand-alone market is just a test bed. Again, cooperative scheduling is off the table and makes zero sense for them to put resources into it.


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## jmpage2

jcthorne said:


> I think you would be surprised at the number of multi-TiVo vs TiVo/mini households.


I think you'd be surprised that TiVo probably knows exactly how many multi-TiVo households are out there... and it's probably a very small number, maybe 5% or less of their subscriber base... not to mention that the % of them that have all TiVos on the latest platform (which would likely be required for a software update like this) even smaller.

Clearly with the large capacity of the Roamio and the room extension capabilities of the Mini, that's what TiVo is focused on.


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## jcthorne

rainwater said:


> TiVo doesn't care about multi-TiVo households. They are in the business of selling Roamio's and Minis as a whole home solution to cable MSOs. The stand-alone market is just a test bed. Again, cooperative scheduling is off the table and makes zero sense for them to put resources into it.


I agree cooperative scheduling will never come from TiVo. It already exists via kmttg now anyway.

I was referring to an integrated My Shows list which is far easier to implement. This applies to households with mini's as well as some have multi tivos as well as minis. Its a supported configuration. Its not one or the other.


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## rainwater

jcthorne said:


> I was referring to an integrated My Shows list which is far easier to implement. This applies to households with mini's as well as some have multi tivos as well as minis. Its a supported configuration. Its not one or the other.


I think you might see profiles one day but a whole house My Shows lists doesn't make sense for TiVo at this point. Of all things they need to do (and finish), integrated My Shows would probably be last on the list.


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## atmuscarella

moyekj said:


> Co-op scheduling is DOA now with 6 tuner units available with tunerless clients (Minis).


I agree TiVo is looking forward not back and TiVo's forward plan is 1 DVR with Minis, that is where their resources will be spent. So I can see having user accounts/profiles as that makes lots of senses when you have several people using 1 DVR on several TVs, but I do not see consolidated to do lists or cooperative scheduling acrossed multiple DVRs.


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## aaronwt

jcthorne said:


> With judicious use of folders, I do not find it unwieldy at all. I admit custom folders could be far easier to implement and placing items in folders that exist as well. But it does work.


I do use folders, but even with folders I have many dozens and dozens of them. And that is on top of the many dozens and dozens of recordings that aren't in a folder.

If I had a profile option I could, for instance, create a profile for my GF that would only have a bunch of lifetime recordings which would make them very easy to find. Which is very difficult right now. i would create another profile for cable news programs, another profile for local news, etc. All of this would make the management of the My Shows list so much easier.

I'm spending alot of time finding stuff which didn't used to be the case when my recordings were split up between two Elites and I used a two tuner Premiere for my GFs recordings. I knew I would have some issues when I dropped down to one cable card, but I didn't realize it would become this bad.


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## crxssi

JWhites said:


> I completely disagree and feel it would just cause TiVo to screw things up  They are barely keeping things together, lets not add any *unnecessary *features into the mix that could turn the Roamio into another Premiere fiasco both performance wise and updatability wise. Let's not forget we're still waiting for them to complete the HD menus, and from what I've gathered they're trying to make both the Premiere and Roamio have the same UI, so that would mean the Premiere would have to get the same folder feature.


So they should just never make ANY other positive addition because they will screw it up? I would MUCH rather have custom folders than HD settings and misc menus.

I seriously doubt having custom folders would hurt performance.

It is crazy that a device that can record 6 things at once and store hundreds or thousands of shows has zero effective options for organizing them. I was amazed TiVo released the Roamio without custom folders and profiles (and BOTH are needed- one for multi-user and one for few/single user).


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## bradleys

crxssi said:


> So they should just never make ANY other positive addition because they will screw it up? I would MUCH rather have custom folders than HD settings and misc menus.
> 
> I seriously doubt having custom folders would hurt performance.


I think TiVo has really upped their game and done a good job delivering value. I think saying they are "barely holding it together" is both unfair and inaccurate.

They definitely had a malaise period during all the litigation, but they seem to have really gotten back into the game.

Co-op scheduling isn't going to happen - the new model is spoke and hub.

If we are voting, I would rather have profiles then custom folders.

Since TiVo has never focused on a lot of "customization" features, I also suspect profiles would fit better into their design model. But that is just my personal opinion.


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## aaronwt

Even thought it's just me, I can make more use of profiles than Custom folders. I figure profiles would do more to clean up everything. With custom folders I would still have many dozens of folders to go through in one list. With the profiles it will do much more to reduce the amount of content in the My Shows list for me. SInce there will be a separate list for each profile I create.


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## crxssi

aaronwt said:


> Even thought it's just me, I can make more use of profiles than Custom folders. I figure profiles would do more to clean up everything.


Not me. I would find profiles to be almost useless; especially if switching between them is not one simple function.



> With custom folders I would still have many dozens of folders to go through in one list.


Not if they were nested like any other rational directory structure. Of course, there might be a limit in this case as to how many levels. Two might be enough, three seems very reasonable.



> With the profiles it will do much more to reduce the amount of content in the My Shows list for me. Since there will be a separate list for each profile I create.


How "convenient"- sign out and sign in every time you want to see another single flat directory/folder...... blech

Done properly, custom nested folders is not only easy to use and manage, but replaces most of the need for profiles, because you can simply create a folder for each person. Recordings can be directed to a folder in the season passes or on demand and programs can be moved manually at any time. And if there were an option to list season passes by folder level, that would be like a profile too.

Don
------Comedy
------Movies
-----------------Action
-----------------Favorites
-----------------Mystery
-----------------Unseen
------Series
-----------------SUV
-----------------History
Sally
------Cats
------Cooking
-----------------Series
-----------------Share
-----------------Specials
------Househunt
------Drama
-----------------Keep
-----------------Later
-----------------New

Everyone
------News
------Technology
----------------- Cars
-----------------Computers
------SciFi
------SaveForXmas


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## jhnversion1

Anyone having any issues with recordings with the new update? I find some recordings getting cut or starting really late. Can anyone provide any insight...


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## HarperVision

DarcyM said:


> Can you imagine having 12 or 18 tuners avail and making it easy to manage from one interface.


 Yes, it's called Windows Media Center with multiple Cablecard tuners.


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## aaronwt

crxssi said:


> How "convenient"- sign out and sign in every time you want to see another single flat directory/folder...... blech
> 
> ..............


I was thinking there would be no sign in/out process. Just a matter of selecting the profile you want. If you had to actually sign in every time then Profiles would be worthless for me.

I guess they could have a sign in option, but I would think most people living together like a family would have no need to have a password for everyone to sign in. If they can't trust each other to only use their own profile then they have some other issues they need to worry about.


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## bradleys

Agreed, and if profiles could some how support suggestions, then even better.

I am so tired of all the children's programming in the suggestions list. My kids are getting older, but set a season pass for "The last Air Bender: the Legend of Kora" and my entire season pass directory is filled with children's programming.

That's why I had it turned off on the Premiere and it is getting pretty close on the Roamio as well,


Create Season Pass -> Choose a Profile -> specific user / global

Easy - one extra step and default would be global so it isn't intrusive for individuals who don't need it!


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## flar

bradleys said:


> I am so tired of all the children's programming in the suggestions list. My kids are getting older, but set a season pass for "The last Air Bender: the Legend of Kora" and my entire season pass directory is filled with children's programming.


The Last Airbender is children's programming? What?



(Seriously, the original series is one of my favorite all time pieces of entertainment - alongside Firefly and West Wing. I knew sequels were coming but I hadn't kept track...and don't judge the series by the truly awful live action movie that was put out a couple of years ago...)


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## bradleys

flar said:


> The Last Airbender is children's programming? What?
> 
> 
> 
> (Seriously, the original series is one of my favorite all time pieces of entertainment - alongside Firefly and West Wing. I knew sequels were coming but I hadn't kept track...and don't judge the series by the truly awful live action movie that was put out a couple of years ago...)


Oh, I loved the origional, it was fantastic!!! Kora is okay, but not nearly is good as Ang.

As for the movie, that dang M. Night Shyamalan can screw up a wet dream...

I was watching After Earth the other day and thought, "Wow, that really should have been a better movie. I wonder what happend" Then the credits: Directed by M. Night Shyamalan. That explains it!!!!!

Why does this guy still get work?


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## jcthorne

aaronwt said:


> I do use folders, but even with folders I have many dozens and dozens of them. And that is on top of the many dozens and dozens of recordings that aren't in a folder.
> 
> If I had a profile option I could, for instance, create a profile for my GF that would only have a bunch of lifetime recordings which would make them very easy to find. Which is very difficult right now. i would create another profile for cable news programs, another profile for local news, etc. All of this would make the management of the My Shows list so much easier.
> 
> I'm spending alot of time finding stuff which didn't used to be the case when my recordings were split up between two Elites and I used a two tuner Premiere for my GFs recordings. I knew I would have some issues when I dropped down to one cable card, but I didn't realize it would become this bad.


I totally agree profiles or nested folders are needed for better organization. Actually, for me, it would mostly remove the need for integrating the NPL as I would just move everything to the main TiVo and the others would simply be clients.


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## NYHeel

crxssi said:


> Not me. I would find profiles to be almost useless; especially if switching between them is not one simple function.
> 
> How "convenient"- sign out and sign in every time you want to see another single flat directory/folder...... blech


It's just me but I find that profiles would work much better for a typical family. Plus it could be consistent on the season pass level as well. So you set a season pass in one profile and all recordings automatically go to that profile. It could be really easy and you can view the My Shows list and Season Pass Manager by profile.

They can use the color buttons to switch between profiles. So you can have 4 profiles or maybe one button just toggles through them if you have more profiles allowed. Either way I think that a much better solution than custom folders which would take a long time to set up and manage. Of course both would be best.


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## anthonymoody

Profiles can be done well. Check out the way Netflix handles profiles. Not only is it a robust solution but a simple one to set up, use, and switch among. 

In fact, having profiles on TiVo that you could link to profiles on Netflix would be really cool.

Personally I think profiles are the way of the future for family households with a single paying account but multiple users and even more devices.


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## rainwater

anthonymoody said:


> Personally I think profiles are the way of the future for family households with a single paying account but multiple users and even more devices.


Especially if the profiles sync with the Mini. That way you could put one in a bedroom and it could show specific recordings for that person. And they could view the same profile from the main Roamio.


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## bradleys

rainwater said:


> Especially if the profiles sync with the Mini. That way you could put one in a bedroom and it could show specific recordings for that person. And they could view the same profile from the main Roamio.


That would actually be very cool - a default profile for a client Mini.

Folders vs. Profiles - TiVo would never do folders, it would take way too much minipulation on the consumers part to setup and use and it would take way too many new admin screens that TiVo would have to "get right" in order to make it usable.

Profiles on the otherhand, is mechanism being leveraged by Netflix and others because it is easier to implement and understand at the consumer level. And can be implemented with modest changes to the current UI flow.

So debate it all you want, one is probable in time the other isn't even remotely viable.


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## Devx

+1 for profiles. Really though, any solution would be better than what we have. I could work with folders too if there was nesting support. Otherwise its just a more advanced replacement for the current show groupings we already have. 

An advantage of profiles that I haven't seen mentioned might also be the ability to put a password or pin on certain profiles. Sure, users should trust one another if they have access to the same box but parents may not want kids to see certain recordings or programming (even the titles) and that could be restricted behind a specific profile with a pin. No pin should be the default however. If all profiles required a pin it would become very cumbersome to manage.


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## jmpage2

I think with the introduction of the Mini, profiles is a pretty logical thing that they will do. The question is when.


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## crxssi

NYHeel said:


> It's just me but I find that profiles would work much better for a typical family.


Yes, but I am not a family. I am one person and one TiVo. That is why profiles would be of very little value to me.

Custom folders, however, could benefit both single people and family units. And even if I were a family unit (of 2 which is most common for non-single), I would be almost as annoyed.... big whoop, now instead of having a flat list of hundreds of things, I would have half a flat list of hundreds of things.


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## magnus

crxssi said:


> Yes, but I am not a family. I am one person and one TiVo. That is why profiles would be of very little value to me.
> 
> Custom folders, however, could benefit both single people and family units. And even if I were a family unit (of 2 which is most common for non-single), I would be almost as annoyed.... big whoop, now instead of having a flat list of hundreds of things, I would have half a flat list of hundreds of things.


Totally agree. That's one of the main features that tivo could add that would have value for me.


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## BigJimOutlaw

They said at Roamio's launch they were working on a "3 column" My Shows feature, which hasn't shown up so evidently it's been pushed back.

If it's a hybrid of WTWN, that in a way is folder-ish, but I sure hope it's optional.


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## aaronwt

crxssi said:


> Yes, but I am not a family. I am one person and one TiVo. That is why profiles would be of very little value to me.
> 
> Custom folders, however, could benefit both single people and family units. And even if I were a family unit (of 2 which is most common for non-single), I would be almost as annoyed.... big whoop, now instead of having a flat list of hundreds of things, I would have half a flat list of hundreds of things.


I'm one person too, but for me it seems like custom folders would mean more work for me. And I would still have a very, very long My Shows list. With profiles I could have better management and also not have to deal with extremely large lists. Since the My Shows list would be split up between multiple profiles.

With customs folders I would still have to navigate down many pages to find the folder I want. I typically want my list by the order it was recorded but with the list being super long I have to go back and forth between being sorted by name and being sorted by date. With a shorter list that profiles would give me I wouldn't need to switch back and forth. I could keep it sorted by date.


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## steve614

At this point, I don't know that there would be that much difference whether it's called profiles or custom folders, that is if there isn't a limit put on how many profiles you can create.

Either one could be made to accomplish the same thing and either one would probably require drilling down into the menus to get to a specific recording.

Does anyone think there is a difference between profiles and custom folders and what would they be?


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## crxssi

aaronwt said:


> I'm one person too, but for me it seems like custom folders would mean more work for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ? No, you just create some folders in the way you want and set your season passes to put things where you want and you are mostly done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I would still have a very, very long My Shows list.
> 
> 
> 
> ??? No, you could direct new shows to folders, which is what profiles would do but with only one level and no control like custom folders would enable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With profiles I could have better management and also not have to deal with extremely large lists. Since the My Shows list would be split up between multiple profiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you understand my vision of custom folders.... See above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With customs folders I would still have to navigate down many pages to find the folder I want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, not if they were organized. That is the whole point of NESTED directories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I typically want my list by the order it was recorded
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, then you would have an issue- you can't have it both ways- ordered/categorized and yet in order of recorded (except with each folder). Think of it like an Email client with multiple nested folders AND auto filters. I have my inbox split into many sections with filters directing new messages to appropriate places.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## crxssi

steve614 said:


> At this point, I don't know that there would be that much difference whether it's called profiles or custom folders, that is if there isn't a limit put on how many profiles you can create.


There is a HUGE difference. Profiles would presumably just be ONE directory level, not multiple. And the mechanism to switch between profiles is unlikely to be as simple as just moving to another directory (although that COULD be implemented that way). And I am guessing there would be no mechanism for moving programs from one to the other (although who knows).

It is highly unlikely they will offer custom folders at all, much less nested. And just as unlikely the profiles would have nested options either. They do share similarities, depending on how they are implemented, though.


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## aaronwt

crxssi said:


> aaronwt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..............
> 
> Well, then you would have an issue- you can't have it both ways- ordered/categorized and yet in order of recorded (except with each folder). Think of it like an Email client with multiple nested folders AND auto filters. I have my inbox split into many sections with filters directing new messages to appropriate places.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a fan of a bunch of nested folders. I only would want titles in each folder, not more folders.
> 
> Of course it remains to be seen if TiVo will offer something. But they really need to offer something to help with the organization of the My SHows List. Because it is really becoming a pain for me with the amount of content I have on a 3TB drive. I couldn't imagine having the 8TB option from Weaknees.
Click to expand...


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## jrtroo

I would expect profiles to be able to include the same program in different profiles, so a show could be in the Mom profile and Family profile at the same time. i would also expect that switching profiles would be made simple, perhaps a good use of the color code buttons that have little functionality. We will just have to wait and see.


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## anthonymoody

crxssi said:


> There is a HUGE difference. Profiles would presumably just be ONE directory level, not multiple. And the mechanism to switch between profiles is unlikely to be as simple as just moving to another directory (although that COULD be implemented that way). And I am guessing there would be no mechanism for moving programs from one to the other (although who knows).
> 
> It is highly unlikely they will offer custom folders at all, much less nested. And just as unlikely the profiles would have nested options either. They do share similarities, depending on how they are implemented, though.


Fwiw Netflix profiles allows for extremely easy switching bt profiles as well as the ability to have to same things in multiple profiles.


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## zordude

Devx said:


> I just checked when I saw this and it seems I was getting a V112 error streaming from the Plus to the Pro. It worked from the Pro to the Plus however. By the time I could get back to the Pro it's working again. Seems intermittent and I cannot reproduce. When I had the issue on the Pro it worked fine streaming from the Elite.


That is the error I am getting (V112).


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