# 652 reboots after stopping playback



## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

Out of no where, twice in a row, after the program finished, I stopped the recording, the system froze, then re-booted. This was on two separate recordings in the same folder. I have had some lockups once in a while, that required a power cycle, but not under these circumstances.

This is a 652 (HD) model. OTA only.

No, I haven't checked the PS yet.


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## thilde (Sep 8, 2014)

Mine has done this three times today. Each time after stopping playback. Prior to today this has never happened before.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

fascinating. Same problem here. Any time I get to the end of a recorded program, whether I let it run out on its own or use the "back" arrow to get to the menu, the box reboot. Details in the thread immediately above yours.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

Just happened to me for the first time this evening when I was watching the last episode of the season for Defiance. After the end of the show it went to the menu and before I could do anything (I was going to delete it) my TiVo HD rebooted. This a TiVo 652 with a 1TB drive (installed a few years ago) with no previous problems.

I was just reading this thread a couple of hours ago.

I have two partial recordings that were recording during the reboot, but they both have later showings I can re-schedule.


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

That is odd, you should see what other things are in common if your in same area etc.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Tivo HD and Tivo HDXL rebooting(4x) since Saturday9/13. After watching recorded program, hitting left or back on peanut to delete, screen goes black, reboot.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

I find all of this kinda hard to believe. 
It's not as there was a firmware upgrade. The only thing is common is the data that is coming in, but even that varies for each area. The next common aspect is communications between their server(s) and the units.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

I have a few 648s and am seeing this same issue. Also started yesterday. I ignored it as a random coincidence at first until I saw it on 2 of my 3 boxes(all 648 with cable cards) and multiple times on each immediately after finishing a recording. It's making watching anything while recording impossible unless I want to miss programs due to the reboots.


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

I just posted this in another thread right next to this one, but I'm having the same problem. Tivo HD.

For more info: I have Time Warner Cable, and have a tuning adapter hooked to it. I do not use an antenna. It's connected to a wired network. I have an upgraded drive in it, but it's been in there since I got the thing many years ago with no problem.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

OK, I'm glad I'm not alone here as I just had the same issue with an S3 OLED (648) last night (Sunday 9/7). We finished watching a show, I fast forwarded to the end to delete it and the TiVo rebooted. Comcast with CableCards and no Tuning Adapter (although I don't necessarily see a pattern above).

I should mention new HD and power supply capacitors have already been replaced.

Scott


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## scottc42 (Jan 5, 2006)

Same problem here. Started yesterday. Charter, SE WI. TiVo HD. It doesn't happen on every show, but it happens with certain shows consistently.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Well, I'm OTA only, no cards, so the provider aspect is out the window.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Really weird problem to appear suddenly like this. I tried to recreate it and couldn't, I have two TiVoHDs used for OTA. Something TiVo has done must be the cause, hard to imagine so many developing the same issue at the same time otherwise.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Really weird problem to appear suddenly like this. I tried to recreate it and couldn't, I have two TiVoHDs used for OTA. Something TiVo has done must be the cause, hard to imagine so many developing the same issue at the same time otherwise.


It is truly weird, because it must be caused somehow by TiVo's guide data or other server data. There surely hasn't been a Series 3 software update, right?


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

I have the same issue (tivo hd) but when it reboots I get a static screen (hdmi). It appears that the tivo is working (ie a scheduled recording started to record) but have to pull the plug to get the output to work. 

I tried switching the TV inputs and even unplugging the hdmi and plugging it back in.


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

We had a variation on this happen last night - TiVo HD reached the end of a recording, then right when one would expect the Delete box to come up, it just froze. When we hit any button on the remote we would get the BONG noise as if we'd tried something bad. Had to yank the plug to restart. 

I'd dismissed it as part of various flaky things it's been doing lately that made me wonder if the box was about to die (but each of which may have just been coincidence). But, now I'm wondering.


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## philwojo (May 16, 2004)

I had the same issue on my TivoHD (not sure on the model off hand). Watched two shows in the same folder and it happened each time at the end of the show when I hit the left/back button to get the delete option.

Then later in the evening we watched another show in a different folder and no issues with that one.

This is OTA only, no cards, but it does have an upgraded HDD in it, 1TBB I think.

Would love to know what is causing this.

I am near Chicago, zip=60561, but again, just OTA, no cable in our house.

Phil


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

I decided to call TiVo support and report the issue. I asked he he/they were aware of this considering a rough count of 15 with the problem. Well, believe it or not he hasn't heard of it.  The next question was if he was aware of any changes (not firmware due to the age of these). The reply was no, but I think he was thinking I meant firmware. which I told him no.

Anyway, I mentioned that others are reporting the same thing. The suggestion was to do a warm reboot from inside the menu. My next question was, isn't the crash and reboot the same thing since it was not a hard reboot (removing power)??


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

I sent an email to Tivo support this morning and sent a link to this thread so they could use it for reference. Got a response a little bit ago:

-----------------
I am not aware of any rebooting issue concerning the TiVo HD devices. But I will certainly show that forum thread to the team that creates trackers so they can be on the look out for more cases. In the mean time I would like some more information. As if this does become a wide area problem the more information the better.
Do you have an external hard drive connected to the device?
Does the issue continue if you unplug not only the power, but all of the other connections in the back of the TiVo device?Test for the issue with all that disconnected. 
-----------------

I don't have time to test it right now (reboots take FOREVER, as I'm sure you all are very familiar with), but they may actually start monitoring this thread for diagnostic info. Any tests you all do may be helpful to TiVo, so consider posting them here.

I'll reply to the ticket when I have time to gather more info.

For what it's worth - the only thing I have connected to my TiVo is a tuning adapter. I haven't tried hard power-cycling the TiVo or running without the TA, but I have power-cycled the TA (which did not help).


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

My 652 rebooted today. Someone else was watching it so I have no idea of the context. 

Comcast cable w/Motorola CableCARD.

Only connections are cable, power, and Ethernet, HDMI.

Upgraded to 2TB a few months ago. Previously upgraded to 1TB in 2011 when original drive started going bad.

Wired Ethernet w/fixed IP address.

U-verse internet.


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

Shmooh said:


> Do you have an external hard drive connected to the device?
> Does the issue continue if you unplug not only the power, but all of the other connections in the back of the TiVo device?Test for the issue with all that disconnected.
> -----------------
> 
> ...


FWIW, I have an external HD, and my other connections are an HDMI to one TV and component to another. Connected via ethernet.


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## dbthornton (Nov 13, 2004)

Same issue here, rebooted last night when I left arrowed out at the end of a program and again this afternoon. Today it had to reboot twice before finishing.
Cable card only near chicago. Drive upgraded to 2TB years ago.

DBT


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

kdc914 said:


> fascinating. Same problem here. Any time I get to the end of a recorded program, whether I let it run out on its own or use the "back" arrow to get to the menu, the box reboot. Details in the thread immediately above yours.


OK, here's where it gets weird. I bought two TivoHD 20 hour units within a month of each other when they were in production. Mine, as mentioned, has been upgraded to a larger drive. My wife's never has. They both have the same type cable card and tuning adapter. Hers does NOT exhibit the reboot problem but mine does. She is using hers so I can't verify Tivo code versions, etc, but I would be honestly very surprised if there was any difference.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

OK, I think I may be spotting the pattern, here. Quick poll: how many of you have this problem but have the ORIGINAL hard drive? My upgraded unit has the problem. My stock unit does not. Apart from the hard drives, my two units are identical in every way* including connections.

* the fact that hers stays mostly on Lifetime/Bravo and mine stays on SyFy/BBC America is (mostly) irrelevant...


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

original HD + extender
original HDXL 

both ota only

both ran practically flawlessly until Saturday
both exibiting reboots after watching recorded show

I'm glad to see it happening to newer hard drives because mine are original and pretty much on borrowed time at 6-7 years old.


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## rtduke (Aug 27, 2008)

I have the same problem - since Sunday evening - but didn't watch TV Saturday. Tivo HD with a 1 TB drive that I put in when I bought the unit. Cablecard - M type with Fios. No tuning adapter.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

For anyone looking for any types of patterns. My boxes all have 1TB drives installed with the most recent being a new install just a few months ago. They all use Comcast cable cards in them. 2 of them have had power supplies replaced. 2 are connected via ethernet while the other is WiFi. None of them have external drives connected. All are also connected via HDMI. No other connections used. All of them now show this issue.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

As another data point my TiVo HD rebooted Sunday (9/7/14) for the first time after a recorded program finished. I don't believe I watched a show on Saturday. It's a 652 with 1TB drive installed several years ago, CableCARD with Comcast Seattle, HDMI, connected using ethernet, with no previous issues. I watched a show on it today and did not get a reboot.

We have another 652 TiVo HD upstairs which is OTA only with a 1TB drive we use to record shows less frequently. I watched an old episode of 60 Minutes on it today and had no reboot when the show completed.


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

kdc914 said:


> OK, I think I may be spotting the pattern, here. Quick poll: how many of you have this problem but have the ORIGINAL hard drive? My upgraded unit has the problem. My stock unit does not. Apart from the hard drives, my two units are identical in every way* including connections.


My unit has a stock internal HD and a TiVo-endorsed external HD


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

The last time I owned anything this old, and had something like this, where I'd get an unresponsive unit, and if left alone, or pressing remote buttons, along came a reboot, I found that unplugging the coax would unfreeze it, stop the reboot, and the only lost recording time was how long it took me to plug the coax back in (cable TV signal coax).

I had a rash of this on TiVo HDs and Premieres, never knew why, or how it began and what ended me having to run to pull the coax in time...


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> It is truly weird, because it must be caused somehow by TiVo's guide data or other server data. There surely hasn't been a Series 3 software update, right?


No update so hopefully TiVo can figure out what has happened to cause the widespread problem.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Chris Gerhard said:


> No update so hopefully TiVo can figure out what has happened to cause the widespread problem.


It wouldn't be the first time the guide data download contained something that knocked a whole bunch of TiVos, across multiple platforms, into random reboot machines. But, this seems to not have any random component.

Maybe TiVo's analytics service poisoned something, or it's related to the many reports, not too long ago, of those saying "Hey, I don't see ads anymore, yay!".

Since upgrade drives tend to have supersize enabled, that's a possible component, if the ads were "backed up" and suddenly all tried to populate the allocated space. Stock drives, less than 1TB, would not have it factory set. Stock drives in large sizes often did have it set.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I've opened a case via e-mail reporting the issue and directing them to this thread.

I also e-mailed Margret and directed her to this thread as well to see if she might be able to direct some one technical to look at it.

Scott


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

HerronScott said:


> I've opened a case via e-mail reporting the issue and directing them to this thread.
> 
> I also e-mailed Margret and directed her to this thread as well to see if she might be able to direct some one technical to look at it.
> 
> Scott


:up: Great idea!

I also just happened to remember that the screen at the end of a show has ad space. That makes another possible connection with the mystery of the disappearing ads, which might have been a curse, as opposed to a blesing.

Even if there's no connection to disappearing ads, I'm thinking the reboot is caused by the mechanism to place an ad there, or what that mechanism is trying to put there, or some combination of the two, and maybe even supersize, given the unafflicted stock drives reported, which would not have it toggled on.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> It wouldn't be the first time the guide data download contained something that knocked a whole bunch of TiVos, across multiple platforms, into random reboot machines. But, this seems to not have any random component.
> 
> Maybe TiVo's analytics service poisoned something, or it's related to the many reports, not too long ago, of those saying "Hey, I don't see ads anymore, yay!".
> 
> Since upgrade drives tend to have supersize enabled, that's a possible component, if the ads were "backed up" and suddenly all tried to populate the allocated space. Stock drives, less than 1TB, would not have it factory set. Stock drives in large sizes often did have it set.


I didn't realize similar issues like this had happened previously. The ad theory is something TiVo should look at.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> I also just happened to remember that the screen at the end of a show has ad space. That makes another possible connection with the mystery of the disappearing ads, which might have been a curse, as opposed to a blesing.
> 
> Even if there's no connection to disappearing ads, I'm thinking the reboot is caused by the mechanism to place an ad there, or what that mechanism is trying to put there, or some combination of the two, and maybe even supersize, given the unafflicted stock drives reported, which would not have it toggled on.


Very interesting thought regarding the possible ad connection. I also posted on the official Tivo forums as well.

Turbobuick did report this is occurring on his 2 TiVo's both with stock drives so it can't be an upgrade or supersize issue.

Scott


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

HerronScott said:


> Very interesting thought regarding the possible ad connection. I also posted on the official Tivo forums as well.
> 
> Turbobuick did report this is occurring on his 2 TiVo's both with stock drives so it can't be an upgrade or supersize issue.
> 
> Scott


Ok, missed that post. Knock supersize off the suspect list, and everybody with upgraded drives can put the Xanax bottle away. It was the least viable suspect in my mind, but has a linkage to ads.

TiVo has proven, several times, that bad data downloaded via scheduled service connections can cause many things, especially reboots. I would imagine they'll find the culprit, then advise making two manual back-to-back connections (after they correct it on their end), to resolve.


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## rtduke (Aug 27, 2008)

I've never noticed ads at the end of a show. What's that all about?


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## scottc42 (Jan 5, 2006)

I do have an upgraded drive... Upgraded it about 4 years ago - couldn't even say what I put in. I've tried watching several shows to test, and I know it does not happen all the time. I DO know that EVERY time it gets to the end of the most recent episode of 'Project Runway', it will reboot. I think it will happen with other recordings, but I am not sure (or have not tested enough to find out). This issue IS very annoying, because we have had a couple recordings screwed up now. But at least now I have my wife yelling, "Delete 'Project Runway'; cancel the Season Pass!!" (I've gotta find humor where I can, right?)


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

What happens if you hit the TiVo button to stop the show before you reach the end of that show and delete from the menu instead since you can consistently make it happen with that episode?

Scott


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> What happens if you hit the TiVo button to stop the show before you reach the end of that show and delete from the menu instead since you can consistently make it happen with that episode?
> 
> Scott


If I hit the TiVo button near the end it reboots; I'm going to try rewinding to a point where it doesn't automatically throw up the Delete box, exit to the menu from there, and then delete.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

If someone who doesn't have anything recording right now can try this to see if it works for them I'd appreciate it.

Get to the end of a program just before it ends. Hit pause and then back out to the program menu. I swear I did this last night and got a reboot but tried it earlier and it worked that time. I have all my tuners recording something for the next few hours so I can't test without risking a few recordings. Thanks.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

TiVo HD, 1 TB upgrade years ago, Verizon FiOS with cablecard. Initial reboot at end of Masters of Sex (SHO) last night, program didn't pull up the delete option at the end so I used the left toggle on the remote and auto reboot. Tonight, Bachelor in Paradise (I know), same situation, end of program, no option to delete, auto reboot. At least there was love at end of Bachelor in Paradise. Another successful Dallasite romance.


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

FWIW, a live chat rep told me they were aware and this is a known issue, and suggested the following:
"Remove the network or wireless adapter and connect the power cable direct to the outlet and not in a power strip or battery backup and the issue may lessen."

I can't imagine why the power cord thing would matter, but I suppose I'll try removing my ethernet cable and see if that does anything.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

kdc914 said:


> OK, I think I may be spotting the pattern, here. Quick poll: how many of you have this problem but have the ORIGINAL hard drive? My upgraded unit has the problem. My stock unit does not. Apart from the hard drives, my two units are identical in every way* including connections.
> 
> * the fact that hers stays mostly on Lifetime/Bravo and mine stays on SyFy/BBC America is (mostly) irrelevant...


OK, so based on info from several posters who have original unaltered TivoHDs, we can reasonably conclude that upgraded drives are NOT the source of the problem.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

kdc914 said:


> OK, here's where it gets weird. I bought two TivoHD 20 hour units within a month of each other when they were in production. Mine, as mentioned, has been upgraded to a larger drive. My wife's never has. They both have the same type cable card and tuning adapter. Hers does NOT exhibit the reboot problem but mine does. She is using hers so I can't verify Tivo code versions, etc, but I would be honestly very surprised if there was any difference.


OK, found info that may or may not be relevant. A program recorded back in January, did NOT cause a reboot when I reached the end. I restarted the program several times and went to the end several times just to be sure. I am presently recording a new program on the same channel (FX) that may or may not use the tuning adapter. If the new program causes a reboot, then it's a timing issue and probably poison guide data or something like that. If the new program does NOT cause a reboot, then perhaps it's tuning adapter related? Will edit this post in a half hour or so when I know for sure.

update to the update of the update: OK, so newly recorded program on FX channel works without reboot. I am now recording something off BBCAmerica and SyFy (where I found the problem a couple days ago.) If either of these cause the reboot, then it's probably a tuning adapter issue. If no more reboots, then perhaps it was a bad bit of guide data that has been fixed.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

^^

I have been trying to catch up on my enormous backlog of shows and have been watching things recorded all the way back to March and those cause reboots for me. Now granted I don't have a tuning adapter so that could be another variable in this but I myself am seeing reboots on older recordings. And to add to the fire I watched a show recorded last night(Robot Chicken) and I didn't get a reboot after.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

chrishicks said:


> ^^
> 
> I have been trying to catch up on my enormous backlog of shows and have been watching things recorded all the way back to March and those cause reboots for me. Now granted I don't have a tuning adapter so that could be another variable in this but I myself am seeing reboots on older recordings. And to add to the fire I watched a show recorded last night(Robot Chicken) and I didn't get a reboot after.


fascinating! That's almost exactly the opposite of what I've seen. Older programs recorded before late August work fine but recently recorded ones caused a reboot (with exception of a new program on FX recorded this evening.) I am currently trying a new program recorded on previously problematic channels BBCA and SyFy. Will report when I know. Might be tomorrow, though. Hopefully, the problem will be resolved by then since it seems that Tivo Central is aware of the ostensibly working on it.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

abeagler said:


> I can't imagine why the power cord thing would matter,


That's a standard suggestion they make on any problem related to rebooting.


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## pakostevens (Aug 25, 2003)

having the same issue since sunday. series 3hd with 2TB 1 cable card comcast chicago. was watching hell on wheels till it ended and then the tivo rebooted instead of bring up the delete window. then after the reboot i watched the lottery which also did the same reboot (killing 2 shows that were recording at that time. did it again tonight as i was watching intruders but this reboot took forever i thought it was bricked. (it also killed my 2nd game of mnf that was recording).

this is super annoying and a major inconvenience.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

I retrieved the show that caused the reboot last night out of the Recently Deleted folder to do some experimenting. It was Defiance from 8/28 on SYFY. I let it run to the end to get to the delete menu like it did last night, but it didn't reboot this time. I didn't watch the whole program, just forwarded it to the last 10 minutes or so and let it run. I haven't changed anything in my setup since last night.

Tried it again and hit the TiVo button with a couple of minutes left and it didn't reboot.

Has anyone else tried to retrieve a program and see if it reliably causes a reboot?

Have to stop experimenting since I have some shows recording now.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Seeing this reboot issue also.

TiVo S3 OLED (648)

If I let the show play to the end when it is supposed to bring up the options to keep or delete, it doesn't provide the options, and instead reboots.

At first I thought it was a hard drive issue with bad sectors so I pulled out the drive and ran diagnostics. Passed extended tests.

Then the same thing happened on the other S3 OLED I had so I figured the chances of both drives going bad at the same time was probably very small.

Then thought perhaps it was a power supply problem. I replaced bulging caps in both power supplies over a year ago (just the bulging ones) so I figured perhaps more caps went bad. Pulled out the power supply on one of the units and replaced the rest of the caps that weren't bulging. Made no difference. Incidentally I tested every one of the non-bulging caps I pulled using an ESR meter and they all had proper capacitance and low ESR so they were actually good caps, I just ended up replacing them to rule them out.

Anyway, I guess this is an example of having too much knowledge of what can go wrong with S3s. I should have just come on the forums to see if other people were seeing issues and saved some time.

With all the reboots I've done, I've seen the same recording sometimes exhibit the rebooting behavior and sometimes work fine, so it isn't something specific to the recording itself. It seems something in the process that happens when you reach the end is at fault. I've gone back to recordings made months ago where I'm sure it wasn't rebooting before and found sometimes they reboot and other times they don't.

Having detected a pattern as it is annoying to go through so many reboots.

Also I don't know if this is related, but after many clean reboots (using the settings menu to reboot) one of my units now will boot past "Ready Set Tivo" and display the clock on the OLED, basically the last step before displaying the THX intro, but it will reboot instead of showing the THX intro. After 4 or 5 spontaneous reboots, it displayed the THX intro and started working ok (except for the end-of-show reboots) After the next end-of-show reboot, it has been stuck rebooting just before the THX intro.

I think it started getting into this reboot before the THX intro loop when I pulled one of the cablecards to test if there was a power supply problem (sometimes if you have power supply problems, the small amount of power you save with one cablecard instead of two allows the system to boot properly)

I threw in an old drive image I have on hand into the rebooting TiVo and it works ok. This would normally point me to a drive issue, but I had already run extended drive diagnostics on this drive and there weren't any errors.

Anyway, right now I am dd_rescuing the drive onto a temp drive before I run some kickstart tests (I've learned from past, never run kickstart unless you have a full image backup, otherwise it might get stuck in the green screen loop, which can be difficult to get out of)


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## ursine1 (May 1, 2001)

Woah. My series 3 HD did the same thing reported here, twice today. Playing a program to the very end, and then instead of getting the cancel option, it freezes and then any button press on the remote causes it to reboot. I came here expecting to do some research and look way back at older issues since this is a relatively old unit&#8230; so I'm pretty shocked to find it's happening to other people, also recently. 

As a data point, my internal drive is original, and I have the official external expander connected. When I try to replicate the issue using the same program (fast forwarding to about 2 minutes from the end), it didn't freeze/reboot. 

The first time it rebooted, I couldn't get live TV for about 15 minutes after because it was loading channel data. The 2nd time, I unplugged/replugged it during the reboot, and unplugged/replugged the external drive as well, and when it (finally, soooo slow to reboot) came back up, live TV and Guide were fine.

I do now notice that the ad at the bottom of the TiVo Central screen is gone.

I'm in Chicago on RCN with a cable card.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Ordinarily I'd jump right in to advise suspecting, and eliminating as a suspect, the power supply (We are talking S3s, after all), but this is too many boxes all at the same time.

It almost has to be something about a recent download.

(unless it's another one of those ticking timebomb boneheaded hard coded dates like the St. TiVo's Day Massacre from a couple of years ago)


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## jhdiscenza (Sep 9, 2014)

I have a Series 3, 652 with external Drive and The rebooting started just a couple of days ago. Same as everyone else here, at the end of a playback, when I should get the option to keep or delete the screen goes black and right away I get "Powering Up..." You think all our machines went bad on the same day? Or is there a bug in the data feed? Take a guess. Duh!

Joe


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

It's a conspiracy to get all of us still on S3's to buy the new TiVo server box. ;-)


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

We were careful not to let it reboot last night because of upcoming recordings. Previously, the times we saw the reboots were from a SyFy show recorded back in July (Almighty Johnsons), and (I think) The Simpsons, recorded back in May on Fox. There was one other, but I don't remember what it was.

From reading all the posts in this thread again, there doesn't seem to be any correlation with Tivo S3 or Tivo HD (or HD XL), with stock internal drives or not, with external drives or not, with tuning adapters or not, with different regions of the country or not, with a specific cable system/provider or not.

This clearly isn't a hardware problem nor a hardware configuration/setup peculiarity. There were no software updates. The only 2 things left are a long-standing bug in the software (like a 2-digit Y2K date thing - seems pretty unlikely), or a recent guide-data/ad update.

As others are hinting/speculating: I wonder if the 'ad' stuff is tied to specific shows or channels a program was recorded on and that a recent ad download/update was botched somehow? That would explain why it happens with certain shows but not with others. E.g., it happened to us with a SyFy show, as it did with somebody else here.

TiVo knows about this thread from at least 2 of us via email, and somebody else on the phone. Plus - probably many many more people that don't use this site. Let's hope they can figure it out quickly (I'm sure their tech support is hoping for the same thing right about now!).


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

Has anyone having problem tried redoing guided setup (to put fresh guide data in) to see if that fixes it?


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

Wife just had it crash on her at the end of a recording from Turner Classic Movies (TCM), recorded on July 28.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

teasip said:


> It's a conspiracy to get all of us still on S3's to buy the new TiVo server box. ;-)


 I had the same thought. They're regretting they gave so many of us $99 lifetime and we can keep our boxes going almost forever by replacing hard drives and repairing power supplies.

I haven't had a reboot or lockup on my THD yet ... fingers crossed.


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## IzzyB68 (Dec 8, 2006)

I also am having this problem. The interesting part is I noticed the two shows I had this issue one (Bachelor in Paradise & The Lottery) were both mentioned in here. I could easily duplicate it using The Lottery last night, because I couldn't believe a spontaneous reboot could happen at the same time each night. I knew it had to have something to do with the end of the show. At first I thought my HD was going bad, but then my husband said he had this happen once to him the day before on his Tivo. That prompted me to do a google search and found this thread.

Hopefully they can resolve soon as it is annoying. I have Tivo HD with a replaced HD, tuner adapter, ethernet, and brighthouse cable. No external drives. My husbands is the first Series3 with all the same stuff as mine. But looking thru this thread there seems to be no pattern so I doubt this information will help.


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

teasip said:


> It's a conspiracy to get all of us still on S3's to buy the new TiVo server box. ;-)





dlfl said:


> I had the same thought. They're regretting they gave so many of us $99 lifetime and we can keep our boxes going almost forever by replacing hard drives and repairing power supplies.


Heh - we had the same thought as well. (Although I know TiVo wouldn't intentionally sabotage us - what would be the point? They're going to have to fix this anyway.)

Funny thing is - I've been toying with the idea of buying a Roamio precisely BECAUSE our TiVo HD has been a good investment (and we paid something like $400 for lifetime service). We broke even a couple years ago, and, occasional switched digital problems aside, have had a much better experience than if we'd continued renting a TWC DVR.

Interesting thought, though. Anybody with this problem on an S3/HD also have a Premiere or Roamio? I wonder if the newer boxes are acting up, too. I kinda doubt it.


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## rtduke (Aug 27, 2008)

First time it rebooted was at the end of a 3 week old Covert Affairs. After the reboot we watched the next episode with no problem. Last night watched the newest episode and paused it with 1 minute remaining. Backed out using left arrow and all was well. Reopened show and resumed playing the last minute and it rebooted. Hope this helps. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nu082285 (Sep 9, 2014)

My TivoHD just started doing this also a week ago or so. Mine is all original equipment. I get the "Bing", the video freezes, then it reboots. Sometimes.

On mine, the reboots have all been on hour long programs. Longer and shorter have been ok. So far, anyway.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

andyw715 said:


> I have the same issue (tivo hd) but when it reboots I get a static screen (hdmi). It appears that the tivo is working (ie a scheduled recording started to record) but have to pull the plug to get the output to work.
> 
> I tried switching the TV inputs and even unplugging the hdmi and plugging it back in.


Well mine stopped flaking out.

Last night, after chatting with tivo online support, I ran the kickstart 54 smart stuff. It ran for about 6 hours and everything (the original drive plus 1TB extender) checked out fine.

One lunch I watch a recording and it worked fine, no reboot.

Not sure what happened between last night and this afternoon, but I tried several recordings (half hour, hour, some 1:02 recordings) and they all seemed to work fine.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

andyw715 said:


> Well mine stopped flaking out.
> 
> Last night, after chatting with tivo online support, I ran the kickstart 54 smart stuff. It ran for about 6 hours and everything (the original drive plus 1TB extender) checked out fine.
> 
> ...


Hopefully it really is fixed. After many reboots due to ruling out other issues, I did get a couple of times when it seemed like the reboot problem went away on shows that I know rebooted before. Half a day later, the reboot problem came back on the same shows I used to determine the reboot problem went away.


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

Shmooh said:


> Heh - we had the same thought as well. (Although I know TiVo wouldn't intentionally sabotage us - what would be the point? They're going to have to fix this anyway.)
> Funny thing is - I've been toying with the idea of buying a Roamio precisely BECAUSE our TiVo HD has been a good investment (and we paid something like $400 for lifetime service). We broke even a couple years ago, and, occasional switched digital problems aside, have had a much better experience than if we'd continued renting a TWC DVR.


I was kinda hoping it might result in a nice deal to switch to a Roamio  I'd really like to get one, but it'd be useless to me in the long term if I switch from Comcast to the other local provider (non-CableCard), so I can't commit to spending too much. My HD lately has had weird issues, all of which seem to be external and coincidental, but all of which drive home that this is an old piece of equipment that could fail anytime.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

Shmooh said:


> Interesting thought, though. Anybody with this problem on an S3/HD also have a Premiere or Roamio? I wonder if the newer boxes are acting up, too. I kinda doubt it.


Actually, I think there IS a Roamio thread about a similar problem. I'll see if I can find it and provide the link.

UPDATE: I was wrong. That was random reboots and an apparent known condition for Roamios, not the specific reboot problem we are experiencing.


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## kdc914 (Jul 13, 2007)

abeagler said:


> I was kinda hoping it might result in a nice deal to switch to a Roamio  I'd really like to get one, but it'd be useless to me in the long term if I switch from Comcast to the other local provider (non-CableCard), so I can't commit to spending too much. My HD lately has had weird issues, all of which seem to be external and coincidental, but all of which drive home that this is an old piece of equipment that could fail anytime.


Or you could just get one of these

Wee bit of sticker shock, though...


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## abeagler (Sep 21, 2006)

Hah! Record all TV all the time and no longer bother with season passes. Nice.



kdc914 said:


> Or you could just get one of these
> 
> Wee bit of sticker shock, though...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rtduke said:


> First time it rebooted was at the end of a 3 week old Covert Affairs. After the reboot we watched the next episode with no problem. Last night watched the newest episode and paused it with 1 minute remaining. Backed out using left arrow and all was well. Reopened show and resumed playing the last minute and it rebooted......


I just got my first reboot on my Tivo HD at the end of the season finale of Covert Affairs, recorded 8/26. Got the 'bong' that would normally occur at the start of the message and then the reboot.

Tried the two recordings with dates closest to the offending one (8/18 and 9/1) and neither exhibited the problem.

Weird, weird .. and more weird!

Is it occurring for recordings in a certain date range?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Is it occurring for recordings in a certain date range?


I don't think it is related to the recording themselves, but rather the process that happens at the end of recordings.

The reason I say this is because I've had recordings exhibit the behavior and the same recording not exhibit the behavior. I've had recording from months and even years ago both exhibit and not exhibit the behavior (again the same show can exhibit in one case and after some reboots/downtime, not exhibit)


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

sfhub said:


> I don't think it is related to the recording themselves, but rather the process that happens at the end of recordings.
> 
> The reason I say this is because I've had recordings exhibit the behavior and the same recording not exhibit the behavior. I've had recording from months and even years ago both exhibit and not exhibit the behavior (again the same show can exhibit in one case and after some reboots/downtime, not exhibit)


I don't pay much attention to ads, but I think I've seen people complain about ads that pop up at the same time as the keep-or-delete dialog. Could it be that mishandling of an ad is causing a reboot, possibly due to corrupted ad data? That might vary from time to time even for the same recording.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

L David Matheny said:


> I don't pay much attention to ads, but I think I've seen people complain about ads that pop up at the same time as the keep-or-delete dialog. Could it be that mishandling of an ad is causing a reboot, possibly due to corrupted ad data? That might vary from time to time even for the same recording.


Quite possible. It fits the bill of something that could be happening at the end of a recording, something that could have changed recently, and something that could affect geographically separate areas. That by itself doesn't confirm/prove ads are the problem, just that they pass initial muster and can't be summarily dismissed/ruled out.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".

--Margret


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

Thanks Margret!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".
> 
> --Margret





CraigK said:


> Thanks Margret!


+100 on that! How refreshing to know someone is listening at TiVo!


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

Ok, I guess I'll jump in here, too. I have 3 TIVO's 2 are 652 HD's and the 3rd is an S3 oled 648. The 648 is the only one with the reboot issue. The first time it happened was yesterday morning. I had watched a show recorded Sunday nite. When it finished, I hit the left arrow button and the machine rebooted. It was not recording another show at the time, so I didn't think much about it. Then last nite in the 9pm hour, it was recording "Under the Dome", and I was watching "Dallas". When "Dallas" finished, I hit the left arrow button and the machine crashed again!. I quickly put on "Under the Dome", so I wouldn't miss any of it. It came back up and started recording the Dome again.
I do NOT have cable cards or TA's. This machine records mostly analog cable and some QAM locals. It also has an antenna so it can record OTA. Before I saw this thread, I was on the phone with WEAKNEES getting a new HD. That it what I would chalk it up to. Now I have to wonder with so many others having the same troubles. My 652 HD's are not having this issue, so far. But the S3 has the most use, so for it to have a HD issue is believable. So we shall see.

So today, so far, no reboots.


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".


I feel a bit dim for asking this, but I can't imagine that I'm the only one who doesn't know. What's a TSN? TiVo Serial Number, maybe? I'm guessing that's on a sticker on the back of the box?

And yes - it's definitely good to know TiVo is working on it and engaged. Very much appreciated.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TSN = TiVo Service Number.

Messages & Settings ..... Account & System Information .... System Information


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

Shmooh said:


> I feel a bit dim for asking this, but I can't imagine that I'm the only one who doesn't know. What's a TSN? TiVo Serial Number, maybe? I'm guessing that's on a sticker on the back of the box?


TiVo Service Number (which is basically a serial number)

15 digits long

The first three digits are the model number - 648, 652 or 658 for the Series 3 TiVos.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Well, while I had one TiVo playing a show and paused (ironically to figure out why the other TiVo was rebooting), it rebooted on its own after about 20 minutes paused.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

There is no pattern here other than it's mostly playback.

The two times it did it with me, I stopped playback before the recording ended. There were two other times that I saw a freeze, but was able to recover from it. 

No one mentioned if the way you entered playback, was it hitting the select button, then play, or hitting play directly with the program chosen?


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Shmooh said:


> I feel a bit dim for asking this, but I can't imagine that I'm the only one who doesn't know. What's a TSN? TiVo Serial Number, maybe? I'm guessing that's on a sticker on the back of the box?
> 
> And yes - it's definitely good to know TiVo is working on it and engaged. Very much appreciated.


Don't feel bad, you just asked before I had to. I made the same assumption.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

dlfl said:


> TSN = TiVo Service Number.
> 
> Messages & Settings ..... Account & System Information .... System Information


They are also the device numbers found at https://www.tivo.com/tivo-mma/index.do for those currently at work.


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## ursine1 (May 1, 2001)

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".
> 
> --Margret


Sent! Thanks.


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## captainstabbins (Dec 16, 2002)

Rebooted last night after watching The Strain. After reading this thread I watched the end again and it rebooted. I did watch a 2 hour show and it did not happen after that one.

Not sure what the deal is.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

My 2nd unit now reboots after pausing for a while anywhere in the show.

Fearful too many reboots might cause other issues, I have to avoid falling asleep while a show is playing and avoid using pause.

I remapped Pause to LiveTV on my remote until they fix this.

It "feels" like there is some bad data (ad?) being downloaded and as the days go on, it is getting worse as more bad data gets downloaded and pushing out the older good data. That's just a WAG.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sfhub said:


> My 2nd unit now reboots after pausing for a while anywhere in the show.
> 
> Fearful too many reboots might cause other issues, I have to avoid falling asleep while a show is playing and avoid using pause.
> 
> ...


Happened twice yesterday according to the person who was using it. While I was using it today, it didn't happen at all.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".
> 
> --Margret


Also sent. Thanks Margret!

Scott


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

I sent Margret a recap of reboots involving both of our units. Also stated that there have been no reboots in about 48 hours. Went and watched a recorded episode of Bonanza, tried to delete and ... you guessed it, reboot!

I sent Margret an update.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".
> 
> --Margret


Like the others I sent mine in as well.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

Wow, I haven't used my TivoHD (652) in months, but was able to reproduce this bug. My box's uptime was ~19 days and my last recording was from the Americans finale back in May. I skipped forward, all the way to the end of the recording, waited for the prompt to keep or delete, and right before it did, bam, it rebooted. 

Wild, who would have thought things can break that haven't even been updated recently.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

Looks like this in tverr

Sep 10 00:29:27 (none) ShmemdLoader[244]: Out of memory. Needed 217173 bytes for request /fsid/2777755
Sep 10 00:29:27 (none) TmkAssertionFailure[244]: : Out of memory for request /fsid/2777755 (ProcessLoadDone, line 274 ())
Sep 10 00:29:27 (none) linux-assert[244]: File contents of /proc/router to follow:
Sep 10 00:29:27 (none) linux-assert[244]: pool: 3532132 sent, 192 avail, 98 maxuse, 1 inuse, 0 norecs

And this in tvlog

Sep 10 00:29:27 (none) TmkMempool[244]: STAT TvShmemRecovery: blocks=166 bytes=353056 bytesMax=858672 unusedBytes=361768 chunks=0 chunkBytes=0 freeChunks=0 freeChunkBytes=0 maxFreeChunk=137880
Sep 10 00:29:33 (none) TagManagerStats[347]: <Warning> Heartbeat stats in msec: mean = 100, variance = 1467, samples = 25586, min = 9, max = 6264, Min = 0, Max = 106333, threshold = 100%, max samples = 72000


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

jwbelcher said:


> Wild, who would have thought things can break that haven't even been updated recently.


I'd be on that list, probably near the top.

Roamio and Premiere owners have been no strangers to something downloaded from the scheduled service connections borking things up, especially causing reboots.

I never figured the older units to be immune to service connection data issues, only observing they seemed to dodge the bullets the other caught.

I'll go out on a limb and speculate that the S3 & HD units connect to different server nodes, with different data in the downloads, like the ads likely being in a different format for S3 & HD (or it should be different, but somebody forgot that, after the period it seemed ads had gone missing).


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## phecksel (Oct 10, 2003)

Thank you to Tivo Community!

And especially thank you to Margaret for helping us!

Email sent


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Welp, I was immune from this reboot issue, but apparently I am not as my S3 just rebooted when show ended...didn't even get to the delete or keep selection. I've watched two recordings made over the weekend, and had my first reboot tonight. One was an OTA program in HD, the other an SD program from cable, which is the one that rebooted when th program ended.

Series 3 "648" rebooted tonite after watching this weeks episode of HBO's "Masters of Sex" after watching the entire show, got to the end of the recording, and rebooted. Recorded in SD during original Sunday PM ET airing (our cable company does not carry HBO in HD).

This reboot happened during a PBS recording, so I was able to reschedule that.

TiVo was updated about 3.5 weeks ago with a 2TB hard drive, from a 1TB drive. Has run continuously and flawlessly since then, until tonight's reboot. All PS capacitors were also replaced last month. Have not seen any of those ads or "special" promos to watch on the now playing list for about 3 weeks, though one did copy over from my previous drive, and that one did eventually disappear by itself.

Have emailed [email protected].

Hope they can figure this out, and am confident they will!


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

Same w/my TIVO HD. TIVO has M-Card (b/c digital upgrade w/WOW) x 3 mos. Networked via wireless, no other mods. Began yesterday at end of Ellen and again at the same show. Other viewing, no issues. Hit back at end as usual, no noise, just the Powering up screen and the dreadful wait. Clearly a TIVO "something" recently. Hope we don't have to wait until never to get this addressed/fixed.


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## Nicholsen (Nov 4, 2007)

I have now seen this specific bug twice with one of my TiVo HDs in the last two days.

It has a Comcast MCard and an upgraded drive (a 1.5 TB WD Green AV drive). It has been running with any issues for months at a time, until this rebooting issue arose. The power supply looks fine and I have seen no signs of drive failure.

I have not had the time to do any real diagnosis, other than following this thread. I am hopeful for a quick fix from TiVo.

It does seem the pause ads have reappeared, just in time for the fall TV season. I like the WAG that there is a relationship between the reboots and the downloaded adds/new show preview clips.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

First, I am terribly sorry that all of you experienced this reboot problem!

Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)

Please make one connection to the TiVo Service. After it completes, you should no longer experience this reboot at the end of a show. (If you do, please let me know!)

--Margret


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

TiVoMargret said:


> First, I am terribly sorry that all of you experienced this reboot problem!
> 
> Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)
> 
> ...


Thank you!!!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> ......... (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)
> ...........--Margret


Hey, that's me, he said proudly.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Thanks Margret, that was a very fast response and very much appreciated!

Scott


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## Nicholsen (Nov 4, 2007)

Many thanks to Margret and the TiVo troubleshooters for the rapid response.

:up::up::up:


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> First, I am terribly sorry that all of you experienced this reboot problem!
> 
> Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)
> 
> ...


Was the cause anything a computer illiterate like me would understand?


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## QMaster01 (Mar 2, 2014)

Thank you TiVoMargret for providing us with this fix:

"Please make one connection to the TiVo Service. After it completes, you should no longer experience [a] reboot at the end of a show." TiVoMargret (post #100 above)

That was nice of you to acknowledge the help of dlfl, 
"Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)" -TiVoMargret

But you forgot to give kudos to videobruce, the guy who started the thread, reported the problem in the first place and first contacted TiVo tech support to report the issue. Many thanks to videobruce for guiding us!!!

Thank you again TiVoMargret for coming up with a fix so quickly. 
What caused the problem in the first place?


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Impressed, emailed TiVOMargret last evening and got a reply from her in about an hour. Thank you Margret!

Now about having Amazon Prime Video on the S3 OLED... 

Edit: Thanks also to the original poster of this thread, as well as those who emailed and tweeted TiVo. Very well done!


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

TiVoMargret said:


> First, I am terribly sorry that all of you experienced this reboot problem!
> 
> Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)
> 
> ...


Thank you very much!


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## IzzyB68 (Dec 8, 2006)

Thank you! Should have read the whole thread as I e-mailed my TSN before getting to the end  

I will do this later today and cross my fingers. That was a fast response!!!


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

One thing I noticed this morning for the first time after connecting to the TIVO service. Now when my S3 comes to the end of a record program and goes to the keep/delete screen, the background is now transparent to the last frame of the program. I'm pretty sure the background used to be blue-ish, but I could be wrong. Not that it's a problem, just perhaps something different. Oh, I did see one ad at the bottom of keep/delete screen.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

QMaster01 said:


> ..... kudos to videobruce, the guy who started the thread, reported the problem in the first place and first contacted TiVo tech support to report the issue. Many thanks to videobruce for guiding us!!!
> .......


+1
This incident showed at least two great benefits of this forum:
1. Serving as a repository quickly documenting problems affecting many users.
2. Letting us know we aren't the only ones having a particular issue, and thus preventing us from wasting resources checking power supplies and hard drives.

I wonder how this would have evolved without Margret's intervention? Is it reasonable to expect the normal support resources to have worked it almost as quickly?


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

dlfl said:


> I wonder how this would have evolved without Margret's intervention? Is it reasonable to expect the normal support resources to have worked it almost as quickly?


I would say the normal support resources would not have had such a quick resolution but next time there is a downloaded bug we can try that and see what happens, the only way to know for sure.

This was really quick, I haven't seen anything this fast previously. It was fixed before I ever even observed it, running two TiVoHDs.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

dlfl said:


> +1
> This incident showed at least two great benefits of this forum:
> 1. Serving as a repository quickly documenting problems affecting many users.
> 2. Letting us know we aren't the only ones having a particular issue, and thus preventing us from wasting resources checking power supplies and hard drives.
> ...


I would hope the support person I talked to, Monday morning, knows the issue was on their side. He would only repeat the mantra, "your tivos are old, the hard drives are failing." The fact I had two machines with the same symptoms and the thread here were all just coincidence.

Without Margrets help, I'm sure it could have taken months instead of couple days. Thanks again for your support, Margret. Would be nice to know the culprit that caused us to lose recordings. Bad code?


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## papajim (Sep 10, 2014)

I have had this rebooting problem for 5 days. Any and all programs do not allow my XLHD unit to delete. I have called TiVo twice with no resolution as of now. Also emailed per post #75.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

Frankly, I wasn't expecting any one else reporting the same issue. My next step was taking a look at the caps in the PS.


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## JoJo3000 (Feb 16, 2009)

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have a Series3 box that just started rebooting this weekend, please email your TSN to [email protected] with the subject: "Series3 Reboot".
> 
> --Margret


Sent this to Margaret via e-mail ... Had this problem on my series 3 on Sunday nite ... Monday, I watched programs that let me delete at the end with no reboot ... Then again, last night problem reoccurred ... Spoke with Tech Support that said they had an e-mail on problem ... Gave tech the above observations and he had me do a reboot after unplugging Ethernet cable and tuning adapter ... watched the end of a program and got the normal delete or keep screen and he pronounced the problem fixed ... Even though I said the issue was intermittent ...

The take-away here for me is TIVO is aware of the problem, gathering data and hopefully will have a solution soon ... I was told I would get an e-mail if there were further updates

I'm sending this info along to the forum in case it helps!


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## JoJo3000 (Feb 16, 2009)

Forgot to add ... Tech doing troubleshooting did have me connect to TIVO service after disconnecting Ethernet cable and tuning adapter ... I sent my response prior to seeing Margaret's reply suggesting connecting to TIVO service should alienate the problem ... 

Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

Well, I'm happy to report that my S3 OLED 648 only crashed two times that I know of Monday. No crashes or any other issues today (so far) or yesterday. Also, only the 648 gave me that trouble. My 2 652 Hd's did not. The 648 has either a 1tb or 2tb drive that has been in use for a couple of years. On the 2 652's, one has a stock drive in it, the has been upgraded. Neither of them has given any trouble. I hoping this is the end of it. But I see others are apparently, still having issues.


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> First, I am terribly sorry that all of you experienced this reboot problem!
> 
> Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)
> 
> ...


 Margaret.
Thanks so much for stepping up to the plate and helping us out on these older machines. I can report I've had no issues since Monday.

Again, thank you.

Don Hewitt


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## mdhughes_us (Sep 10, 2014)

I also was having problems with reboots at the end of a show, even last night. So far tonight I haven't had any problems.

I was really starting to think there was something wrong with my TiVo HD. Glad it turned out to be something other than hardware!


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm just glad unitron found this thread, and admitted the problem was far too widespread, and too precisely timed, to recommend a hundred members should rebuild/re-cap their power supplies, as he was about to, and some were about to, already, after seeing other posts, in other threads, advising the power supply should be the first place to look.

But, since you all are already here, and I've been a tad harsh on unitron's tunnel vision with power supply capacitors, in the recent past, I will say he is right to say that, at minimum, visually checking for bulging/domed caps is a good place to start with problems on models this old (especially that have been in service for all this time).

But, I draw the line at universal proclamations advising prophylactically replacing ones with no visible signs of failure, if you are having no problems. Can they be bad without visible cues, yes. But, not everybody knows enough about the dangers of handling/repairing power supplies, and I'd hate to hear somebody got killed due to the lack of even the simplest safety advisements, typical with most posts from those who want to see new capacitors in every HD, S3, and older model power supplies.

For those who were told by TiVo support (not TiVoMargret), that they needed to remove all power/surge strips, and directly use a wall outlet, this could make a difference, if you have bad/borderline capacitors in your power supply, especially if the line voltage is on the low side, then reduced by a surge strip, and/or a regular strip with many devices plugged into it.

For those wanting to know answers (what, why, how, where, etc.), you'll never get them from TiVo. You might get a vague response that it was on their side of things, but nothing more. I'm still betting on something to do with ads.

I'll wrap-up with a question, myself: Is everybody that has had this issue resolved, found more ads appearing now, than say a week ago?


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## thompsmk (Oct 29, 2007)

I was having trouble with both an HD (original drive) and 2 Series 2's, one with an upgraded drive and one original. Haven't had any problems since Monday. YAY! Thanks so much !


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

nooneuknow said:


> For those wanting to know answers (what, why, how, where, etc.), you'll never get them from TiVo. You might get a vague response that it was on their side of things, but nothing more. I'm still betting on something to do with ads.


I didn't think it would be answered either, she would have said in post without being asked, but was worth a shot.


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

nooneuknow said:


> I'll wrap-up with a question, myself: Is everybody that has had this issue resolved, found more ads appearing now, than say a week ago?


My TiVo HD had this problem. I manually connected to the TiVo service after seeing Margaret's "we fixed it" post in this thread. Mine has not had the problem since then, and we have allowed the TiVo to reach the end of the recording and prompt us many times (6 minimum). So - ours is very likely fixed.

That said, if there's any difference at all, it seems like we're getting fewer ads - not more. It's hard to judge since they're so unobtrusive and I'm so desensitized to them. I've been paying more attention the past couple days, and I haven't noticed as many - if any at all - in the menus. I'm pretty sure we still get them when paused, though.

Although I (and probably many others) do not really mind the ads, I can't imagine TiVo will ever admit they're what caused the problem. While I do think a botched ad update is a much more likely cause than a simple guide data update, wouldn't it just cause a rash of irate customers if they admitted it?

Oh well. Mistakes happen. As long as it stays a rare thing, I won't hold it against them and it will not stop me from being their customer. I'm just happy to have a prompt fix, and appreciate TiVo's active engagement in the matter.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I would have no idea how often those ads occur -- because I automatically tune them out. If all viewers were like me there would be no ads on TiVo and the business model for OTA and non-premium Cable TV would be entirely different.

I admit that some small percentage of ads are actually valuable -- they provide info about new products or upcoming events.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Shmooh said:


> That said, if there's any difference at all, it seems like we're getting fewer ads - not more. It's hard to judge since they're so unobtrusive and I'm so desensitized to them. I've been paying more attention the past couple days, and I haven't noticed as many - if any at all - in the menus. I'm pretty sure we still get them when paused, though.
> 
> Although I (and probably many others) do not really mind the ads, I can't imagine TiVo will ever admit they're what caused the problem. While I do think a botched ad update is a much more likely cause than a simple guide data update, wouldn't it just cause a rash of irate customers if they admitted it?


I had reported this in another thread regarding not having received an ad on our S3 and HD TiVo's in a while.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=520526

I noticed that since the fix, we've received a new ad in the showcase that showed up on the Delete screen at the end of a show last night. 

Scott


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## Shmooh (Feb 20, 2009)

HerronScott said:


> I noticed that since the fix, we've received a new ad in the showcase that showed up on the Delete screen at the end of a show last night.


Funny you should mention that! After I made that post last night, we watched something on the TiVo. I saw the ad on the 'keep or delete' screen at the end. I never recall seeing one there before - EVER. Granted, like I said yesterday, I don't really notice them so it's possible it's nothing new, but I really never remember seeing one there before.

That seems like a likely suspect for the cause of this recent reboot problem, doesn't it? Interesting.

And - I agree with dlfl. They're very occasionally useful with upcoming shows/events, but otherwise I literally NEVER view them. I think I clicked on a fall preview ad last year for CBS - but that was the only one in the past 12+ months. I could count the number of ads/pushed-videos I've viewed on one hand in the 5+ years I've had the TiVo, and I've never followed through with any of them. I'm the same way with internet ads (intentional Google searches aside).

Maybe we're just weird, but I can't imagine how randomly pushed mass-market ads are a viable business model for anybody. (Commercials, I get. Targeted ads, I get. Paper towels from my TiVo.. Uh.. what? Like I'm going to go through the hassle and let you track me for a $1 coupon. Right. Sure.)


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Shmooh said:


> That seems like a likely suspect for the cause of this recent reboot problem, doesn't it? Interesting.


It certainly makes the most sense. Since this was so easily fixed by Tivo with a simple service connection, and inadvertent incompatibility of Ad content with older models seems to fit the bill.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Shmooh said:


> Funny you should mention that! After I made that post last night, we watched something on the TiVo. I saw the ad on the 'keep or delete' screen at the end. I never recall seeing one there before - EVER. Granted, like I said yesterday, I don't really notice them so it's possible it's nothing new, but I really never remember seeing one there before.
> 
> That seems like a likely suspect for the cause of this recent reboot problem, doesn't it? Interesting.
> 
> ...


Whether or not you ignore the ads, as long as your Opt Status is "Opt-in", you are being tracked. The fact that you don't give the ads a click is tracked. So, about the only thing you are denying TiVo is greater analytics numbers for those who click on the ad bait. Even though I know it is easier to set a SP I want, by just using an ad, I ignore the ad, and make the SP the hard(er) way. It's my way of making the numbers show even their "convenience" ads don't bait me in.

How might this backfire for those like us? If we ignore them, TiVo will want to get the numbers up. It they act on that want, more ads, in more places, more frequently, may become a reality, that might not have come, otherwise. OTOH, if they had numbers showing the ads work well, they might call it a green light light we like and want them, still leading to greater occurrences of them. So, possibly damned if you do click, and damned if you don't, and being tracked and passed through analytics, regardless.

Levels of Opting that I know have existed, which is set by the user account, applying to all TiVos on the account, with Opt-Neutral being how TiVos came as default:

Opt-Out: Allegedly no tracking, and no identifying the account. TiVo used to deny certain functions/app access if you chose this, claiming they needed to know the TSN & associated account, in order to provide them, as well as requiring a full Opt In, for ability to let you use them.

Opt-Neutral: Allegedly gives your blessing to track, but allegedly drawing the line at being individually identifiable in the analytics output. This had been the default status on any account. TiVo still tried to force/trick you into opting in, or lose something opting in gives you in return.

Opt-In: Full blessing for analytics and linking it with your account, including it in analytics, and passing user identifiable info with the analytics results.

You can opt-in from your TiVo, from an OTT app, and your online account. But, you can only opt-down/out by calling TiVo. They make sure it's easy to opt-up/in, but make it a huge PITA to opt-down/out.

Anything short of full opt-in, tended to make some TiVo capabilities unavailable, including: Some OTT apps, being able to sign into some OTT apps, and TiVo (allegedly) being unable to provide support, especially anything requiring log monitoring to look for issues. You would be told you could not get their help, without opting in (opting neutral not being good enough for most of such instances). To be eligible to be a beta tester, participate in a field trial, or otherwise participate in making things better, you are once again forced to opt-in, or not qualify to participate.

I had given up on anything less than opt-in, as every time I did opt otherwise, I was denied use of some functions, and was told support could not help me with everything I'd seek support for. What a (sarcastically) great way to make sure as many people are opt-in, as possible, regardless of what they want, while leaving TiVo the ability to track and create better analytics data to sell, including how many times you hit instant replay to re-watch wardrobe malfunctions. But, TiVo can claim everybody has control over analytics levels, how much personally-identifiable data is recorded, and that everybody has the option to opt-out.

The period where people were seeing no ads on S3/HD models, coincided with half, or less, of Premiere/Roamio ads appearing as well. Now, they seem to be back for the latter platforms, full-force, aside from there not being two ads at the bottom of TiVo Central (so far). I fully expect that to come back, and for it to affect older models as well.

While I didn't see many new posts pointing back to the first member, who used their first posts to finger the ads as the most likely possibility for what happened (me), if not for following HerronScott through the threads about not seeing ads, I may not have made the connection so quickly. I was suspicious about possible consequences related to them going missing, before the return of the ads (apparently) validated my concerns, just not in any exact way I was thinking of.

Playing devil's advocate, I believe that TiVo needs every possible scrap of analytics data they can get out of old-model, lifetime service units, or continued resources (servers and maintenance of them) to keep their service going, is all loss, and no gain.

Since there actually are those who insist we should take the ads, like them, use them, and not complain, as it helps keep TiVo in business, I sure hope those who post such things, are making sure to be opted-in, and clicking on every ad they see (as opposed to just telling those who complain about ads, that they should shut the hell up, and live with the ads, in silence).

Back to keeping on-topic, I've seen enough confirmation that ads somehow created the issue this thread was about. If the temporary lack of ads was the first symptom, or not related at all, we will likely never know. There's enough circumstantial evidence, to make the case ads were responsible, and (hopefully) close the case.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I see that we got 2 more show ads last night (Gotham and Forever) in Showcases so seems more than coincidental to me that the issue was related to the no ad situation somehow.

Scott


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

Well. I don't know about any one else on this thread, but I just another unsolicited reboot on my S3, OLED. Is anyone else having trouble? I had ordered a new 2tb hd. If this keeps up, I guess I'll have to do a little brain surgery.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

wtkflhn said:


> Well. I don't know about any one else on this thread, but I just another unsolicited reboot on my S3, OLED. Is anyone else having trouble? I had ordered a new 2tb hd. If this keeps up, I guess I'll have to do a little brain surgery.


If it's rebooting at the end of a program, Margret wanted to be notified...

See THIS POST



TiVoMargret said:


> First, I am terribly sorry that all of you experienced this reboot problem!
> 
> Thank you to those that sent me your TSNs, it helped us identify the problem quickly. (Bonus points to @dlfl007 for alerting me to the issue by tweeting me a link to the thread.)
> 
> ...


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

It wasn't at the very end of the program. The show about 3 min more to run. And I wasn't trying to end it or delete it. So, I don't now if this is the some problem or not, I had sent my TIVO service number to Margaret earlier last week when all this started. It hasn't happened again. So, I'll let it ride and see what happens next. If it happens again, I'll drop a line to Margaret.

Thanks,

Don H.


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## TaterTot24 (Aug 26, 2007)

Is anyone else still having the reboot issues?


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

I eventually replaced the hard drive in my S3 and that fixed my crash problem. Since then, it got hung up once, trying to transfer a program from another DVR. Other than that 1 time, all has been good.

Thanks all.

Don H


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TaterTot24 said:


> Is anyone else still having the reboot issues?


No. You are probably dealing with either a power supply or a hard drive issue.

Scott


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