# Survivor: Blood vs. Water - 10/9/13



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Wow! That was one crazy tribal council! Good for Caleb. I can't wait to see John and Candice's reaction when Culpepper gets to Redemption Island.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Am I correct in assuming that a second tied vote would have resulted in the dreaded purple rock tiebreaker?


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## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

Loved it, I'm sure Redemption Island will welcome him warmly as the residents there think he is number one!


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## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

Not sure on a not final tribal about the rocks ... probably though, it's been a while.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

That was a fun TC. Culpepper's mouth is his worst enemy.

I hope John & Candice can get him out next week.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

RI should be a good one next week.

I am note sure I understand the love one's strategy anymore. Before I could see sending in John to limit the natural alliances that will happen at the merge and minimize the number of upset returners but now it is basically now the love ones, particularly Vytas, believing they can make it to the merge and used their blood's alliance on the other side to keep them in post merge.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I kind of hope Culpepper knocks out Candice and her wife.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

One thing has bothered me about the clue to the hidden immunity idol. The person that wins the Redemption Island challenge can give the clue to whoever they want in the form of a scroll. How can the same clue be valuable to both tribes, when the geography surrounding each camp is completely different? It's not as if the idol can be hidden in the exact same spot at both camps. Are we to assume that the scroll is just for show, and the appropriate clue is then given to them off camera? Perhaps I'm over thinking it.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Anyone else find it amusing the comment from Candice that Monica was following Brad's orders right after she herself ordered John to give Monica the clue?


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## ciscokid (Jan 14, 2003)

Culpepper has a reputation down here in Tampa for being a crappy lawyer too! By the way did anybody notice his wife's tattoo tonight??? What is it of?


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## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

gweempose said:


> One thing has bothered me about the clue to the hidden immunity idol. The person that wins the Redemption Island challenge can give the clue to whoever they want in the form of a scroll. How can the same clue be valuable to both tribes, when the geography surrounding each camp is completely different? It's not as if the idol can be hidden in the exact same spot at both camps. Are we to assume that the scroll is just for show, and the appropriate clue is then given to them off camera? Perhaps I'm over thinking it.


I didn't notice this time, but last time Jeff waited until the person was chosen, then he reached in his pocket to get the scroll. My guess there are multiple scrolls with different clues depending on the person/tribe.


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## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

heySkippy said:


> That was a fun TC. Culpepper's mouth is his worst enemy.
> 
> I hope John & Candice can get him out next week.


This ...


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Gene S said:


> I didn't notice this time, but last time Jeff waited until the person was chosen, then he reached in his pocket to get the scroll. My guess there are multiple scrolls with different clues depending on the person/tribe.


Yeah, I just went back and watched it. For some reason I thought Jeff handed John the scroll, but that was not the case. You don't even see the scroll until after John has made his decision. It was edited out, but clearly Jeff grabbed the appropriate scroll after the fact.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> I hope John & Candice can get him out next week.


Knowing how they like to rig stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with a challenge that plays to Culpepper's strengths. He has a big personality, and the producers like to see people like that go far in the game.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Great episode. I loved the guys going behind the camps back and and drinking the coconuts. That is both wrong and right on so many levels.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Great episode. I loved the guys going behind the camps back and and drinking the coconuts. That is both wrong and right on so many levels.


I can't believe the others fell for crabs are eating the coconuts.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Einselen said:


> Anyone else find it amusing the comment from Candice that Monica was following Brad's orders right after she herself ordered John to give Monica the clue?


Yes. Maybe that's why things were so hot. Two Alphas. Females that is.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Dalton's recap:

http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/survivor-blood-vs-water-episode-4/


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Given how well John did on that challenge at RI, I wonder why he was not part of the first puzzle challenge (that cierra and the other girl lost). Also, no doubt in my mind that he would have helped his tribe win had Cierra been the one voted out at the last tribal.

Very harsh thing for Cierra's mom to say about her daughter (something along the lines of "she can never beat me at anything", implying that her daughter just doesn't measure up to her awesomeness).


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I got a kick out of Hayden starting to write "Cierra" then scratching it out and thinking. Then he ended up writing "Cierra" anyway.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> I got a kick out of Hayden starting to write "Cierra" then scratching it out and thinking. Then he ended up writing "Cierra" anyway.


Maybe he was thinking of the right way to spell it


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

dfergie said:


> Not sure on a not final tribal about the rocks ... probably though, it's been a while.


Everyone except the 2 who are tied draws rocks and one of them goes home. That's a pretty good incentive to not have a 2nd tie vote.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I used to like Candice but she's too whiny for my taste. I hope Culpepper takes them both out. They are too schmoopie.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Given how well John did on that challenge at RI, I wonder why he was not part of the first puzzle challenge (that cierra and the other girl lost). Also, no doubt in my mind that he would have helped his tribe win had Cierra been the one voted out at the last tribal.


Culpepper and his followers made a stupid decision when they blindsided John. When your team is already down in numbers, the last thing you want to do is vote off the strength.



Anubys said:


> Very harsh thing for Cierra's mom to say about her daughter (something along the lines of "she can never beat me at anything", implying that her daughter just doesn't measure up to her awesomeness).


I thought the exact same thing. I can't imagine Ciera was very pleased to hear that last night. In fact, she was probably downright humiliated by it. Not a very motherly thing to say at all.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> Everyone except the 2 who are tied draws rocks and one of them goes home. That's a pretty good incentive to not have a 2nd tie vote.


Yep, that's how it would have played out. Here's a quote from Jeff Probst:



> We do the vote and we have a tie. When we have a tie, we do one re-vote and the rules are that if nobody changes their vote and we remain tied, then the two people tied are now immune (yes, immune) and the rest of the tribe must draw rocks to see who goes home. The person who draws the odd rock is out.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Are we to assume that the events that went down at tribal last night are what Jeff was referring to in the Time article? He mentioned that something crazy was going to happen this season.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Yep, that's how it would have played out. Here's a quote from Jeff Probst:


But what if *two* people change their votes and end up with another tie?


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> I used to like Candice but she's too whiny for my taste. I hope Culpepper takes them both out. They are too schmoopie.


I told my wife the same thing last night. Though I used "*****y" instead of whiny.

tk


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

loubob57 said:


> But what if *two* people change their votes and end up with another tie?


I'm sure it does not matter how each person voted, only that the result of the vote was a second tie.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

gweempose said:


> One thing has bothered me about the clue to the hidden immunity idol. The person that wins the Redemption Island challenge can give the clue to whoever they want in the form of a scroll. How can the same clue be valuable to both tribes, when the geography surrounding each camp is completely different? It's not as if the idol can be hidden in the exact same spot at both camps.


They were at least once. In season 18 (which I'm watching now) both idols are hidden in the treemail statue.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Are we to assume that the events that went down at tribal last night are what Jeff was referring to in the Time article? He mentioned that something crazy was going to happen this season.


If this is what he was referring to, then meh. This isn't even in the conversation. I figured Brad was going to get his eventually, so I wasn't surprised by this.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

loubob57 said:


> But what if *two* people change their votes and end up with another tie?


According to the quote, they go to the rocks if nobody changes their vote, therefore, in your scenario, they shouldn't pull rocks. The words in the quote could have easily been "...if after the second vote we remain tied...". He specifically mentioned nobody changing a vote and remaining tied, however.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> If this is what he was referring to, then meh. This isn't even in the conversation. I figured Brad was going to get his eventually, so I wasn't surprised by this.


The shock wasn't that Brad finally got what he deserved, but in how it all went down. The way Caleb orchestrated that crazy last second shift was unprecedented.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Anubys said:


> Yep, that's how it would have played out. Here's a quote from Jeff Probst:


The quote you put from Probst didn't come over, but is this a recent quote? For some reason I thought they got rid of the purple rock and use fire-making between the 2 instead.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Gene S said:


> I didn't notice this time, but last time Jeff waited until the person was chosen, then he reached in his pocket to get the scroll. My guess there are multiple scrolls with different clues depending on the person/tribe.


Yeah, this would make the most sense. Different clues for different tribes, and when John was still there it was his 2nd clue vs anyone else's 1st clue.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jr461 said:


> According to the quote, they go to the rocks if nobody changes their vote, therefore, in your scenario, they shouldn't pull rocks. The words in the quote could have easily been "...if after the second vote we remain tied...". He specifically mentioned nobody changing a vote and remaining tied, however.


You're parsing it like a lawyer. This is not written in some "Survivor policy and rules book", it was just an explanation by Probst. I think the spirit of what he says is pretty evident.



bryhamm said:


> The quote you put from Probst didn't come over, but is this a recent quote? For some reason I thought they got rid of the purple rock and use fire-making between the 2 instead.


It was in his most recent interview with Dalton about this very eipsode

link to interview


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

bryhamm said:


> The quote you put from Probst didn't come over, but is this a recent quote? For some reason I thought they got rid of the purple rock and use fire-making between the 2 instead.


Found my own answer. I see now that your quote was from this week's Q&A between Dalton and Probst.

That was such a horrible way it played out before when the one dude ended up going home because of it, that I thought I had heard that they dropped the dreaded purple rock. Guess not. Which is why I could understand Vytas switching. If he doesn't switch, Brad and Cierra stay and Vytas now has a 25% chance of randomly going home. No way should he let that happen. And lol at Hayden taking that chance.

But it does bring up a good point. Probst's answer specifically said "*if nobody changes their vote* and we remain tied, then the two people tied are now immune (yes, immune) and the rest of the tribe must draw rocks to see who goes home." So, in regards to the bolded, what if Vytas switched his vote but Caleb also switched his vote and they were still tied. What happens then?


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Anubys said:


> You're parsing it like a lawyer. This is not written in some "Survivor policy and rules book", it was just an explanation by Probst. I think the spirit of what he says is pretty evident.


While this may be true, I don't think it's evident. He made his explanation lengthier by including a qualifier. I am no lawyer (nor have I even stayed at a Holiday Inn recently) but it would have been easier to just say "after another tie we pull rocks", if that is in fact what happens without regard to votes changed or not.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

The silliness that is argued here sometimes.

If it is a tie, and then a tie again, they can draw rocks. No one cares which specific vote a person casts. A tie is the contestants getting the same number of votes.

And the rules actually add another step in the process - there can be a 2 minute discussion about who to vote out. This has never happened in the game, though, but it is allowed based on the producers discretion.

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor/2010_May_31_survivor_rules


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> That was a fun TC. Culpepper's mouth is his worst enemy.
> 
> I hope John & Candice can get him out next week.


I'm definitely on this side. I don't like Brad Culpepper.



ciscokid said:


> Culpepper has a reputation down here in Tampa for being a crappy lawyer too! By the way did anybody notice his wife's tattoo tonight??? What is it of?


Wait, he's a trial lawyer too? That might explain the big mouth. I noticed the tat, but couldn't tell what it was.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

I can see why Vytas changed his vote, and it probably wasn't that he didn't want to draw rocks.

Last week, Culpepper used the excuse that he didn't want John to link up with his wife (if she made it back into the game) at the merge.

I can see him thinking, "What if Culpepper decides that it wouldn't be good for him if I partnered with my brother, Aras (another strong player) after the merge?"

Culpepper was setting things up as to what was best for him, not the tribe, which wrong at this point of the game.

He got rid of a strong player now when the tribe needed him because of what he thinks could happen later, and in the process weakened his own alliance. Apparently Hayden still though he could be trusted, but Vytas decided he wasn't trustworthy.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ciscokid said:


> Culpepper has a reputation down here in Tampa for being a crappy lawyer too! By the way did anybody notice his wife's tattoo tonight??? What is it of?


I did notice the tat and don't remember her having it the first time she was on. They never showed her close up enough to see what it was.



betts4 said:


> Great episode. I loved the guys going behind the camps back and and drinking the coconuts. That is both wrong and right on so many levels.


I didn't understand that part at all. Why would Tyson and Gervase leave the coconuts they drank from sitting around where someone could find them? Why not chuck them out into the middle of the dense jungle where nobody is going to be walking around? Why take the chance that someone will find them and wonder what is up?

As for tribal, that was a very bold move by Caleb, but very well done. It was pretty risky, because from what we've seen in the past, people know who they're voting for before tribal starts, and rarely does anything said at tribal change that. So him announcing that he was voting for Brad could have seriously backfired on him. But instead, it worked out exactly as he intended. However, the chances of that tribe winning any immunity challenges from here on out is pretty slim. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we had a tribe switch in the next week or two.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I have an even simpler question: why is it wrong for Tyson and Gervase to drink the coconut milk?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I have an even simpler question: why is it wrong for Tyson and Gervase to drink the coconut milk?


For not sharing. If it wasn't wrong, why are they hiding the fact from the rest of the tribe. Why paint a target on your back.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I have an even simpler question: why is it wrong for Tyson and Gervase to drink the coconut milk?


That's kind of what I was thinking too. Aren't coconuts plentiful there? I'd think if anyone wanted one, they could just go get one. Are they ALL high up in trees?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I assumed the coconuts were from a cache that the tribe had previously gathered so they would be missed if Tyson & Gervase had chucked them into the brush. 

Coconuts may be plentiful but they're also mostly at the top of 50 foot tall trees. There is definitely effort required to gather them up.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I assumed they were just from a spot where people go to gather coconuts. They seemed to be pretty far from camp. I don't know why they would have gathered a cache so far from the camp.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Another thing that shocked me in voting Brad to RI is right now it seems Brad has a large target painted on him in the eyes of the other tribe. After the merge it would seem many would easily agree he should be target #1 to get rid of (especially if RI is gone by then) since he has taken an active roll in trying to control a lot of the game. To me it seems good strategy to keep in the person who will easily be the bigger target. Though it could be all editing.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

But not if you don't trust him.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

bryhamm said:


> But it does bring up a good point. Probst's answer specifically said "*if nobody changes their vote* and we remain tied, then the two people tied are now immune (yes, immune) and the rest of the tribe must draw rocks to see who goes home." So, in regards to the bolded, what if Vytas switched his vote but Caleb also switched his vote and they were still tied. What happens then?


The voting is done in secret, right?
There is no way to tell if anyone changed their vote if the results are the same.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

steve614 said:


> The voting is done in secret, right?
> There is no way to tell if anyone changed their vote if the results are the same.


As secret as you can be with cameras and producers recording and watching every second of it


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Einselen said:


> Anyone else find it amusing the comment from Candice that Monica was following Brad's orders right after she herself ordered John to give Monica the clue?


Except that's not really what happened, IMO.

When learning that John had a clue to give away, she said, "Let's give it to Monica." A request.

When Monica received the clue, Brad barked at her three times: "Walk it down and put it in the fire. Walk it down and put it in the fire! Walk it down and put it in the fire!" until she complied.

His was an order; hers was not.


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## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

I think normally it would have made sense for her to keep the clue for her tribe to share, but since she has someone else on the other tribe she would rather be playing with, that kind of takes that strategy out of play.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

HoosierFan said:


> I think normally it would have made sense for her to keep the clue for her tribe to share, but since she has someone else on the other tribe she would rather be playing with, that kind of takes that strategy out of play.


The loved one twist definitely changes up the whole game in terms of strategy. So far, I like it.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

David Platt said:


> Except that's not really what happened, IMO.
> 
> When learning that John had a clue to give away, she said, "Let's give it to Monica." A request.
> 
> ...


It's clear who wears the pants in both families.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I didn't think the loved one idea was all that good but so far I like it. Still hate RI.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

VegasVic said:


> I didn't think the loved one idea was all that good but so far I like it. Still hate RI.


I think RI also adds a twist. Brad would not be voted out at all if it weren't for RI. Like he's said it gives the voted out member a chance to vent and let everyone know what's going on.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

JFriday said:


> I think RI also adds a twist. Brad would not be voted out at all if it weren't for RI. Like he's said it gives the voted out member a chance to vent and let everyone know what's going on.


But the finality of being voted off is taken out of the game. I miss that a lot. It takes away a lot of the drama from Tribal.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> But the finality of being voted off is taken out of the game. I miss that a lot. It takes away a lot of the drama from Tribal.


I agree with this. I kind of just says, you're going to go play the game somewhere else. And with 3 at RI, you have a 66.6% chance of staying in each week.


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## nmiller855 (Sep 26, 2000)

Redemption Island might be the best part of next week's show.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nmiller855 said:


> Redemption Island might be the best part of next week's show.


:up::up::up:


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

gweempose said:


> Culpepper and his followers made a stupid decision when they blindsided John. When your team is already down in numbers, the last thing you want to do is vote off the strength.


This. If they had voted out a girl last week there would be no way for Caleb (or any other guy) to pull off the tribal move. Caleb knew that at worst he would get a tie since the girls would take the only chance they had. With only 1 girl remaining that strategy wouldn't work.

Brad was hoist by his own petard.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

This is a much more interesting season then we have had recently.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

gweempose said:


> I can't wait to see John and Candice's reaction when Culpepper gets to Redemption Island.


They showed some of it after the previews.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

betts4 said:


> This is a much more interesting season then we have had recently.


I agree. I'm loving all the new twists.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I have to say, I've been totally wrong about this season. After E1 I thought this was going to suck and that the twists were going to be bad. But after watching the season play out and considering the strategy around everything, I'm doing a 180 and enjoying the season. But one thing. It's interesting to me that the most intriguing player this season is NOT a former player but Culpepper (for better or worse), and Caleb, another new player has a chance to be equally compelling. Now this might be so because the newbies keep losing challenges so that's where the drama is, but my thought is, that they could have had the same type of game with all new players, just by separating the love ones. Either way, it's been fun so far. I still don't like RI, but adding the twist they can switch sides at least makes that more interesting.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

I'm no fan of Brad, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that at least brad was a pretty good sport. Not just that he accepted the blindside with grace, but that he accepted responsibility for it: "I'm not mad at you...I made a bad move". I wish more people could exit that gracefully.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> I'm no fan of Brad, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that at least brad was a pretty good sport. Not just that he accepted the blindside with grace, but that he accepted responsibility for it: "I'm not mad at you...I made a bad move". I wish more people could exit that gracefully.


That was shocking to me. But he is used to competing hard and leaving it on the field.

I also found it hilarious that he was forced to go spend his exile with the two people in the game that have reason to hate him the most.

And that the first thing he did was verbally raise a white flag. 

(Sorry if this has been discussed before... I haven't read the rest of the thread).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

LordKronos said:


> I'm no fan of Brad, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that at least brad was a pretty good sport. Not just that he accepted the blindside with grace, but that he accepted responsibility for it: "I'm not mad at you...I made a bad move". I wish more people could exit that gracefully.


I can totally relate. I can be a real *sshole on the soccer field, but as soon as the game is over I would buy you a beer.


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