# Cox fiber, tuning adapter still required?



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

I currently live in a Cox area where everything (TV + internet) comes into the house via coax, and a tuning adapter is required to receive all channels.

I'm moving to a new neighborhood where Cox is offering their Gigablast 1GB internet service.

Regardless of what services you sign up for, in this neighborhood, Cox runs fiber to your house, which it then seems to go into an ONT and splits back to coax for TV.

I was curious if anyone had any experience with this, and knew if tuning adapters were required with Cox's new "fiber to the house" setup. I was hoping the fiber gave them enough bandwidth to be able to push all of the channels without needing SDV/tuning adapters.

Thanks!


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## Tico (Dec 10, 2002)

Are you sure the TV is via fiber?

Here in AZ only the Gig Internet is Fiber and the video is still via Coax.

If the video is via FIber I would guess it would be all digital with no analog so probably no tuning adapter.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Cox G1GABLAST Internet fiber, is solely for Internet. Cox is not using the fiber for TV or Phone.

Even, in brand new construction Cox is laying both fiber and HFC. Cox has no current plans to use the fiber for anything other than Gigabyte Internet service.

If indeed your new neighborhood is fiber for all services, you are the first I have heard of, Please post pics of the ONT if it is true.

Fiber runs seem to be pretty sloppy too, at least in retrofit installs


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

It's definitely just one fiber line to the homes in this new neighborhood. That goes into a gray box on the side of the exterior of the house. The different builders in the neighborhood worked with Cox and pre-wire a coax and Ethernet run (that lead to the interior smart closet) to the exterior where the Cox box goes.

I have a Cox acquaintance that helped setup this neighborhood. We've chatted a bit on FB. Here are some snippets:



> Everything should work. What we are doing is just delivering our content via fiber. So on the house side it should all be the same. It is RFOG. RF over glass. The fiber is just replacing coax outside.
> 
> Box has a mini node in it. A device that turns fiber into coax. Inside the bottom of the box is were coax should be. The gray conduit is the fiber conduit and green wire is the ground.


He isn't familiar with cablecards and tuning adapters, so I thought I'd ask here. But it sounds like this new neighborhood is done differently from most.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> If indeed your new neighborhood is fiber for all services, you are the first I have heard of, Please post pics of the ONT if it is true.


Assuming my closing goes on schedule Tuesday AM, the Cox install is Tuesday PM. I'll take pics during the process!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Tico said:


> Are you sure the TV is via fiber? Here in AZ only the Gig Internet is Fiber and the video is still via Coax. If the video is via FIber I would guess it would be all digital with no analog so probably no tuning adapter.


TAs aren't determined by whether the system is using analog and/or digital signals present, but they're used where Switched *Digital* Video (SDV) is needed and therefore used in digital systems (which may also have some analog channels).


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

aristoBrat said:


> It's definitely just one fiber line to the homes in this new neighborhood. That goes into a gray box on the side of the exterior of the house. The different builders in the neighborhood worked with Cox and pre-wire a coax and Ethernet run (that lead to the interior smart closet) to the exterior where the Cox box goes.
> 
> I have a Cox acquaintance that helped setup this neighborhood. We've chatted a bit on FB. Here are some snippets:
> 
> He isn't familiar with cablecards and tuning adapters, so I thought I'd ask here. But it sounds like this new neighborhood is done differently from most.


it's fiber to the local drop then coax to the house, but the gigblast internet is fiber to the modem?ont

this shows gigablast install


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## Tico (Dec 10, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> TAs aren't determined by whether the system is using analog and/or digital signals present, but they're used where Switched *Digital* Video (SDV) is needed and therefore used in digital systems (which may also have some analog channels).


I understand that, 
However if it is all Digital (no analog) I would believe there should be no need for SDV with so much spectrum freed up.

For example FIOS doesn't need a TA.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

ajwees41 said:


> it's fiber to the local drop then coax to the house, but the gigblast internet is fiber to the modem?ont
> 
> this shows gigablast install


Watching that video, it looked like his fiber went all the way to his back yard and into the house. I thought he said they used the coax conduit from the local drop to run the fiber thru the first section. But that was for Internet only.

If you Google "Cox RFoG", looks like Cox has done fiber to the home (for all of their services) in Orange County, too.

One of the more technical neighbors replied back with this when I asked him this morning how his Cox was wired:



> Yes, fiber into outside box on house, from there split to coax for tv / phone, and fiber feeds through to ONT for internet, output of ONT is ethernet cable
> 
> All fiber from their plant to your house...


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

This person in Omaha, has Fiber, and is being told by Cox, that he cannot use a TiVo and CableCARD, "they don't work on Fiber" But it sounds like he has Coax and Fiber.
http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_forum/f/4/t/10092.aspx

You may run into a few hiccups until Cox gets it's act together, concerning Fiber.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> You may run into a few hiccups until Cox gets it's act together, concerning Fiber.


Thanks for the link. That was a little disheartening to read. I was excited that with this new fiber-to-the-house service, I might be able to ditch the tuning adapter. I didn't think about the whole "TiVo may not work for awhile until Cox figures this all out" aspect of it. 

The plan Cox is giving the neighborhood comes with a Record 2 DVR ($5/month to upgrade to Record 6). I guess Plan B will be to temporarily use that if we can't get the TiVo working at the time of the initial install.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

CoxInPHX said:


> This person in Omaha, has Fiber, and is being told by Cox, that he cannot use a TiVo and CableCARD, "they don't work on Fiber" But it sounds like he has Coax and Fiber.
> http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_forum/f/4/t/10092.aspx


Cox Forum Thread Updated and pic of the RFoG device

Aurora Networks SDU RFoG CPE
http://www.aurora.com/site/docfetch.an?di=5009


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Yes, this is a pic off my house - brand new neighborhood in suburban Omaha, fiber to the home. 

I haven't been able to get through to anyone save for the first line of support personnel - but would love to chat with the engineers about how the neighborhood is configured. Somewhere up the line there isn't a HFC capability - or maybe there is and they're explicitly turning it off.

Anyway, totally disheartening - but believe me, I haven't given up yet. I have at least 14 calls into them over the past 10 days. Last two tech visits have resulted in no-shows. Tomorrow I'm headed to the Cox Solutions store and swapping my CableCARD - hoping to get them to give me multiples - but if not, guess I'll be making multiple trips 

I'm convinced from my research that this will work - I might just have them install a Contour box and take the M-Card out of it haha


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske said:


> Yes, this is a pic off my house - brand new neighborhood in suburban Omaha, fiber to the home.


Thanks for posting up, I'm very anxious to see how it works out! :up: 

Edit: I just saw you filed the FCC complaint, never mind my blurb about doing that.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I also posted this on DSLReports where Cox employees monitor and respond to issues:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30...bleCARDs-will-not-work-on-new-Fiber-deploymen

Regarding the Tuning Adapter issue, since Cox already has the Tuning Adapter channel mapping set-up for everyone else on Coax, Cox would need to create a separate CableCARD only, channel mapping just for those customers on Fiber only, I doubt they are going to do that.

Cox is already maintaining Four separate channel mappings:
1) Mapping for Contour equipment that receives the H.264 channels
2) Mapping for legacy Rovi equipment that does not receive the H.264 channels
3) Mapping for Retail CableCARDs w/o a Tuning Adapter connected
4) Mapping for the Tuning Adapter which includes SDV channles


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

It's interesting that you mention needing a TA at all on fiber - SDV was deployed to save bandwidth; you'd think bandwidth isn't an issue at all on a fiber-based deployment.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

dekarske said:


> It's interesting that you mention needing a TA at all on fiber - SDV was deployed to save bandwidth; you'd think bandwidth isn't an issue at all on a fiber-based deployment.


Bandwidth is not the issue on Fiber, the issue now is the Channel Mapping, which in all Cox markets is the responsibility of the Tuning Adapter.

A Cox Retail CableCARD only has Mappings for non-SDV channels.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> A Cox Retail CableCARD only has Mappings for non-SDV channels.


So if the issue is that the tuning adapter can't "speak" over RFoG, shouldn't dekarske be able to tune all non-SDV channels?

I thought his OP over on the Cox forums indicated he could only tune up to 1027. I'd have thought his market would have more non-SDV channels on numbers higher than 1027.

Man, if this really turns out to be that tuning adapters don't work over RFoG, that's going to suck beyond belief. I don't want to get rid of my TiVo setup. FiOS is also available in our neighborhood, but Cox's special neighborhood rate plan is much less expensive.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Well, hopefully my acquaintance that helped setup the Cox infrastructure in my neighborhood is wrong, but I just pinged him about the TA issue, and his reply was that "legacy equipment is not compatible".

And I had just yesterday told the FiOS sales rep for the neighborhood to pound sand (because Cox's rate was so good). Looks like a serving of humble pie is in my near future. lol


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I do not understand why dekarske's CableCARD is not receiving more channels also, there are several channels in the Essential Pak that do not require a Tuning Adapter.

With TiVo and Cox currently working together on Cox OnDemand via TiVo, I find it hard to believe this issue has not already been discussed between the two parties.

TiVo does have embedded SDV tech in the current SW that uses IP for SDV tuning requests, perhaps that may be leveraged???

I still do not understand the difference between OOB over FiOS vs OOB over Cox's RFoG.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> I do not understand why dekarske's CableCARD is not receiving more channels also, there are several channels in the Essential Pak that do not require a Tuning Adapter.


If it's just a matter of not being able to tune SDV channels, and my market actually maintained a list of which channels were SDV, I might be able to live with that setup for awhile.



> With TiVo and Cox currently working together on Cox OnDemand via TiVo, I find it hard to believe this issue has not already been discussed between the two parties.


I wonder if Cox is "big company" enough that the folks working with TiVo aren't aware of these new FTTH neighborhoods?



> TiVo does have embedded SDV tech in the current SW that uses IP for SDV tuning requests, perhaps that may be leveraged???


That would be awesome, but I'm guessing if that's not already in place, it's something that will take some time to setup (on Cox's end). And it's a great solution for TiVos, but that leaves the other consumer devices that use TAs hanging out there. 



> I still do not understand the difference between OOB over FiOS vs OOB over Cox's RFoG.


AFAIK, FiOS has never used tuning adapters, so OOB may not be an issue for them on their network.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

aristoBrat said:


> AFAIK, FiOS has never used tuning adapters, so OOB may not be an issue for them on their network.


The CableCARD itself is being passed info from an OOB carrier, just look at your DVR Diagnostics.

The OOB carrier frequency is used for Authorizations, firmware updates and for EAS broadcasts.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

I'm trying to separate the Tuning Adapter problem - I know they're problematic. Not going to let it go - there needs to be a solution to get all channels, SDV or not.

But what's the difference between the Contour device and a CableCARD? I thought they both have M-Cards? How are they authorizing channels differently that's causing the CC to not work, but Contour does? That's the part I'm trying to decipher at this point.


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## Tico (Dec 10, 2002)

dekarske said:


> I'm trying to separate the Tuning Adapter problem - I know they're problematic. Not going to let it go - there needs to be a solution to get all channels, SDV or not.
> 
> But what's the difference between the Contour device and a CableCARD? I thought they both have M-Cards? How are they authorizing channels differently that's causing the CC to not work, but Contour does? That's the part I'm trying to decipher at this point.


Contour uses Tru2way and DSG to get autorizations etc. Contour boxes have a Docsis modem built in to them for this.

TA's and Tivos currently use OOB signals to get the data stream.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

So essentially you're saying they're linked - the TA must communicate over DSG not OOB, and Cox needs to create a channel list specifically for this setup.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske said:


> So essentially you're saying they're linked - the TA must communicate over DSG not OOB, and Cox needs to create a channel list specifically for this setup.


From CoxInPHX's post #22, sounds like the cable card itself requires OOB for some functions, not just the tuning adapter.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

aristoBrat - if you would please, ask your "insider" if they are delivering the Contour signal over IPTV or QAM on the RFoG installs.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske said:


> aristoBrat - if you would please, ask your "insider" if they are delivering the Contour signal over IPTV or QAM on the RFoG installs.


He did mention IPTV earlier this year. "GPON is what we will deliver in June. Now around that time we may offer IPTV". FWIW, June is when they went live with the Gigablast 1GB speeds. Before then, the fastest speed was just like coax, even though everything was coming across fiber.

They had Contour boxes in way before June, so I'm assuming they're QAM. I'll see what he says.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

dekarske said:


> aristoBrat - if you would please, ask your "insider" if they are delivering the Contour signal over IPTV or QAM on the RFoG installs.


dekarske,
If you tune to MSNBCHD - 1066 w/ TA disconnected
also tune to BYUtv - 150 w/ TA disconnected

and then go to DVR Diagnostics, does it list a frequency for those tuners, or does it say:
CableCARD Association: None
Current Tuning State : Wrong Card State


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

If it were me and several more days go by and Cox does not seem to be actively working on this, I would be tempted to go pick-up an HD Contour STB for a self install, set it up make sure everything works.

-- Actually Cox should be attempting this themselves, just to test.
Then I would remove the CableCARD and put it in the TiVo, and call the CableCARD line and attempt to pair it to the TiVo, just to see what happens, because that CC will have a different Channel Mapping than the Retail ones.

You run the risk of getting Cox pissed off at you though, maybe not the best idea at this point.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

If they're not already pissed - because I just proved them wrong. My newly-swapped CC works just fine on non-SDV channels, as I suspected. Now onto the TA problem to get all of the channels I'm paying for.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

What are your results with this?



CoxInPHX said:


> dekarske,
> If you tune to MSNBCHD - 1066 w/ TA disconnected
> also tune to BYUtv - 150 w/ TA disconnected
> 
> ...


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Wrong Card State.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

So the next question is, are all the channels linear over the fiber?

SDV is normally controlled at the node, since your RFoG device is your node, all channels should be linear, unless the node is just another switch that tells the HUB to send the channel to the node.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Good question - I'm definitely learning as I go. But this is the point where I need to be engaged by Cox engineering. And as far as the FCC goes, I pretty much proved that they have to make TA's work, or they're in violation of regulations.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Cox will have to respond to the FCC complaint and find a resolution. The only question is how long it will take.

In my experience the FCC contacts Cox within a week, and Cox will contact you within the second week.

Keep checking your complaint status and keep it updated, with new information and Cox's responses.
https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests

Also add the link to the FCC complaint of http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_forum/f/4/t/10092.aspx


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

According to the email I received, the FCC served them on Monday July 13 and they have 30 days to respond.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Cox support locked the thread (http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_forum/f/4/t/10092.aspx), so can't keep it updated. Not sure what the harm is in keeping it open - I thought there would be value in spreading the word.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

That pisses me off. ^^^

Seems like it was the only way to directly interact with people who could get the right resources involved.

I like how they say "they're going to tell you what your options are". That sounds like they're not going to fix it.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

I have used the forum as the primary means to communicate, so I am a little disappointed that they closed the thread also. I have also tried their [email protected] email address (which elicited a response, but the forum is more interactive), calling the 877 number (which is a mixed bag - I end up directly in tech support, and all they have is their CSR screens/call log), calling the supervisors that I have numbers for (they don't return calls of course), this forum and the DSL reports forum. It's possible they're just reducing the avenues down to one on their side - which is understandable to avoid confusion.

All I can do is wait - they do have the FCC complaint hanging over their head, so there's that. I also contacted the local cable franchise authority - they're dealing with all the complaints from other customers regarding the switch to digital. The local Cox solutions store is also some comedic gold - there are some seriously pissed off people there. I feel bad for the staff in that store.

My last contact outside the forum from someone at Cox was on Tuesday, and she mentioned she was going to talk to engineering and follow-up. I do have to talk to someone in Billing yet - my bill is due tomorrow, and have to get some of the charges refunded, which they wouldn't do until the due date.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

At least you've got the ball rolling for you. My install got bumped until tomorrow (because closing was delayed). I'll open a new thread on their support forums about this issue then (so I can get on their "we'll call you to tell you your options" list), as well as file a FCC complaint.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Good luck on your closing! I have had some interesting experiences with closing - for this house, it was relatively painless at least. I have no doubts your CC will work - if your TA does, then I will be seriously interested in how your FTTH install is different than mine.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

dekarske said:


> Cox support locked the thread (http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_forum/f/4/t/10092.aspx), so can't keep it updated. Not sure what the harm is in keeping it open - I thought there would be value in spreading the word.


they did not lock it at least I still see a reply option when viewing it. They are just not going to beable to fix the issues via the forum


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

There's a lock at the top of the thread, and I certainly don't have any reply options. If you can reply, try it.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske said:


> There's a lock at the top of the thread, and I certainly don't have any reply options. If you can reply, try it.


It didn't show as locked for me, either, until I refreshed the page. Their forum software is meh at best.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Cox regularly locks the Forum threads when they are unable to help beyond their ability. They do not allow customers to continue to just correspond with each other on an ongoing basis.

Cox is going to have to figure out how they will allow SDV tuning requests, without the traditional node & HUB HFC infrastructure.

My guess is they will test some device that uses DOCSIS as do the Contour equipment. Whether that is the Cisco TA in DSG mode or some form of a DOCSIS modem, or perhaps they will allow the TiVo to use the embedded SDV IP requesting.

Creating and deploying a SDV TA that uses DOCSIS other than the Cisco in DSG mode, will require CableLabs to get involved which could take a year.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Well that's a rosy scenario  I'm in it for the long haul though.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

I forgot if you mentioned this, and I'm still on phone only for Internet, but did they give you Cisco or Motorola cable cards?

At my old house, everything was Moto. 

I'm pretty sure the Cox installer here at the new house said this FTTH neighborhood uses Cisco.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Received another call - and it all works! TA magically started working sometime overnight or this morning.

Cox's website went down while I was on the call - while I was trying to confirm channel subscriptions - but I'm pretty sure I'm getting everything SDV or otherwise.

Super pumped!

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and information. I'm unsure what they did technically - maybe someone in the know can figure it out.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Awesome to hear. Cisco TA?


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Motorola - CC and TA.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

As a breadcrumb trail - here's everything I consulted to learn about the setup. There's more out there - but these were particularly helpful for me.

https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...ubleshooting/CableCARD-Channel-not-authorized - not authorized is related to the CC, if your CC isn't paired right, not set up correctly on your account, or otherwise toast - you'll see this
https://support.tivo.com/articles/T...ooting-Roamio-Series-and-Premiere-Series-DVRs - learn about important fields/values in the debug screens for your CC
https://support.tivo.com/articles/T...oamio-Series-Premiere-Series-and-Series3-DVRs - signal checking
https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...roubleshooting/Tuning-Adapter-Troubleshooting - tuning adapter firmware required versions

https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19349 - Motorola + HDHomeRun issues/debug thread (non-fiber)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/archive/index.php/t-508722.html - checking your TiVo can access the 6 tuners the hardware is capable of
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9811839 - more multiple tuner fun
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/archive/index.php/t-444389.html - another TA troubleshoot thread

http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_forum/f/4.aspx - Cox-run support forum - also can email [email protected]
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/coxhsi - Cox sub-forum on DSL reports - lots of technical folks, and anon-Cox employees
https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/ - FCC complaint page (this really got the ball rolling)

TL;DR - Fiber-to-the-home RFoG Cox network, Motorola CableCARD + Tuning Adapter (MTR-700), TiVo Roamio + Minis - WORKING JUST FINE!!!!


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Great news, no fiber in Vegas yet, but in case, I'm glad Tivo works. Hopefully we get On Demand soon.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske said:


> Motorola - CC and TA.


That's so awesome to hear!!! That's what's in/attached to the TiVo at the old house that I'll be bringing over to the new place tonight.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Hope your install is completed faster than mine


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I am so glad to see Cox came through so quickly on this issue,

I was expecting many months delay,


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> I am so glad to see Cox came through so quickly on this issue,
> 
> I was expecting many months delay,


Watch it be my Cox neighborhood that takes months to fix. 

Brought the TiVo from the old house over to the new house last night. I'm using the CC and TA from the old house, which is on a separate Cox account. Was able to tune everything but the SDV channels.

I've got a new CC and TA associated with the new Cox account. I'm going to get those activated. I'm assuming the SDV issue will persist. If so, I'll start escalating it.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

Wish I knew what they did - to expedite the change by your local plant.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske said:


> Wish I knew what they did - to expedite the change by your local plant.


I've been practicing my "but they got it to work in Omaha!!!" pout. heh


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Phoenix should hopefully be good, because I am fairly certain a video engineer here has TiVos.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

dekarske, before they fixed the issue for you, did your Roamio ever acknowledge that there was a tuning adapter attached?

At my new house, the TiVo doesn't see either the new or the old tuning adapter (when I go into Settings & Messages > Account & System Information > Tuning Adapter). Both Tuning Adapters just sit there with the flashing yellow light, when plugged in, so I'm hoping that's the issue.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

foghorn2 said:


> Great news, no fiber in Vegas yet, but in case, I'm glad Tivo works. Hopefully we get On Demand soon.


I think you will see fiber before on demand on TiVo just don't think Cox will follow through


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

ajwees41 said:


> I think you will see fiber before on demand on TiVo just don't think Cox will follow through


Always the pessimist, I expect it is still on track.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Well [email protected] is fun:



> It looks like your problem is a bit different than the one stated in that thread. That has to do with a tuning adapter and a Gigablast installation. You do not have Gigablast service at this address. I see that we have an appointment to get this looked at tomorrow by a technician. Let us know if you still have any issues after the technician has diagnosed your issue.


I replied back with a picture of the fiber run and RFoG unit on the side of my non-Gigablast house.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

So my market's (Hampton Roads) stance is "the FCC requires us to support the cable card, but not the tuning adapter".

Does the FCC require support of tuning adapters?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

aristoBrat said:


> So my market's (Hampton Roads) stance is "the FCC requires us to support the cable card, but not the tuning adapter".
> 
> Does the FCC require support of tuning adapters?


Yes, the FCC does.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-1373A1.pdf

If you have not already, you need to file an FCC Complaint, I hope Cox put some of this BS in an email, if so make sure to include that.

"*Provide accurate information* about the capability of retail CableCARD-compatible devices. Cable operators *must not mislead* their customers regarding the ability of retail CableCARD-compatible devices *to tune switched digital channels.*"

"Ensure access to all linear channels. Consumers have identified problems accessing switched digital channels on their retail CableCARD-compatible devices. Cable operators must ensure that subscribers can use their retail devices to access all of the linear channels that comprise the cable package to which they subscribe. *Operators also must ensure that retail devices can tune at least four simultaneous channels, or as many switched digital channels as that operator's most sophisticated operator-supplied set-top box, whichever is greater.*"

"*The term "linear programming" *is generally understood to refer to video programming that is prescheduled by the programming provider, i.e., channels other than on-demand programming. *Linear programming includes premium channels and channels delivered by switched digital technology*."


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Thanks for pointing out the specifics -- I really appreciate that.

I just submitted the FCC complaint. Anxious to see how that goes!


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Anxious for Cox's next response. Make sure to Email that PDF to [email protected]


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

aristoBrat said:


> dekarske, before they fixed the issue for you, did your Roamio ever acknowledge that there was a tuning adapter attached?
> 
> At my new house, the TiVo doesn't see either the new or the old tuning adapter (when I go into Settings & Messages > Account & System Information > Tuning Adapter). Both Tuning Adapters just sit there with the flashing yellow light, when plugged in, so I'm hoping that's the issue.


My first TA acted that way (previous to the "fix", so not sure if that's normal) - TiVo didn't know it was there. However, with my current TA, the TiVo reacts immediately if you unplug the USB cable from the back of the TA (or the TiVo, for that matter). It's an integral part of the system - without it, no SDV channels.


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## dekarske (Jul 9, 2015)

aristoBrat said:


> So my market's (Hampton Roads) stance is "the FCC requires us to support the cable card, but not the tuning adapter".
> 
> Does the FCC require support of tuning adapters?


Total garbage - FCC requires that all linear programming be available, which means CC + TA.

File an FCC complaint.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dekarske said:


> Total garbage - FCC requires that all linear programming be available, which means CC + TA. File an FCC complaint.


He did:



aristoBrat said:


> .......I just submitted the FCC complaint. Anxious to see how that goes!


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Reply back from the FCC. Hopefully it doesn't take 30 days -- I think I'm locked into a 2-year contract after 23 days (and would like to know before that if this market can handle TAs like the Omaha market apparently now can).



> Hi,
> 
> Your ticket was served on Cox Communications on Jul 24 for its review and response.
> 
> ...


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

So it looks like I'm receiving SDV channels at the moment without needing a tuning adapter.

Before Yesterday:
Could only receive non-SDV channels, except for the premium ones. No HBO or Showtime or anything.

Multiple Cable Cards would not pair with Roamio, even a known good one. Their systems showed the CCs paired every time, but the TiVo status screen never showed any of them paired. They were perplexed because when unpairing on their end, they expected the TiVo to show a new data number on the TiVo Cable Card screen, which it never did.

Tuning Adapter was still non-functional (constant flashing yellow), so per Cox's request, it has been left _disconnected_ from TiVo since the weekend.

Yesterday AM:
Receive email that backend change to enable HBOHD and SHOWHD had been made, please test and reply back.

Tuning either of those channels still popped up the Cable Card screen on the TiVo, however (and this is the interesting part to me), SyFy, AMC, and E! (all SDV channels in my market) started working (even though the TA was disconnected from the TiVo).

Yesterday PM:
HBOHD and SHOHD started working. TiVo status screen shows the CC is now paired. Tuning other HBO or SHO channels don't work, though.

They requested that I do not swap Cable Cards (or have anyone from Cox send a hit to the Cable Cards), as that will undo change.

So I'm not sure if this is a temporary fix or what (as they commented that they were trying to get the tuning adapter to work, like how they did in Omaha), but it's interesting to me to get SDV channels without a Tuning Adapter in the meantime.

Support:

I have to say that I've been beyond impressed with the [email protected] rep that's been working with me. She frequently sends email updates, and if she needs me to test something from home, she calls when she says she will. She also has the ability to do Cable Card related stuff (like pairing/unpairing) herself vs. having to transfer me off, which has been nice. She's been in contact with the local field where I'm at, including the tech that originally came to my house and his supervisor. She also caught an underbreath grumble I did about being frustrated about them locking dekarske's thread on the Cox forum and had it unlocked, at least for the duration of my ticket.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

aristoBrat said:


> So I'm not sure if this is a temporary fix or what (as they commented that they were trying to get the tuning adapter to work, like how they did in Omaha), but it's interesting to me to get SDV channels without a Tuning Adapter in the meantime.


I highly doubt that you're getting SDV channels without a Tuning Adapter. How are you determining which channels are SDV?


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I highly doubt that you're getting SDV channels without a Tuning Adapter.


I don't understand it either.

I can say that I do not have a Tuning Adapter attached to my TiVo, and that known SDV channels in my market (that were not tunable before yesterday) are tuning in just fine now.

Perhaps they're not being delivered via SDV anymore to the fiber mini-node on the side of the new house. Is that an option? I don't know anything other than some backend change was made, and nobody should touch the Cable Card in the TiVo.



> How are you determining which channels are SDV?


At first, it was trial and error. You'd sit down to watch a recording from a Season Pass that was working fine at the old house, and you'd see that since moving to the new house, nothing's recorded.

The rep I'm working with confirmed that by emailing me a list of all non-SDV channels for my market. The SDV channels not on that list matched the channels the TiVo was having problems recording, like SyFy, AMC, Spike, E!, etc.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

aristoBrat said:


> I don't understand it either.
> 
> I can say that I do not have a Tuning Adapter attached to my TiVo, and that known SDV channels in my market (that were not tunable before yesterday) are tuning in just fine now.
> 
> ...


It's certainly possible that they moved those channels from SDV to traditional linear channels in your area, and that's why you no longer need a tuning adapter to view them. I actually think that's probably the most likely explanation, as I don't know how you would be able to view them without a tuning adapter otherwise.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> It's certainly possible that they moved those channels from SDV to traditional linear channels in your area, and that's why you no longer need a tuning adapter to view them. I actually think that's probably the most likely explanation, as I don't know how you would be able to view them without a tuning adapter otherwise.


Could they have possibly taken advantage of the aforementioned new capability of the tivo to have built in "tuning adapter" functionality via IP to the MSO's headened?

Maybe try tuning those channels with the ethernet disconnected? Or does this work with an upstream IP on their coax possibly?


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> It's certainly possible that they moved those channels from SDV to traditional linear channels in your area, and that's why you no longer need a tuning adapter to view them. I actually think that's probably the most likely explanation, as I don't know how you would be able to view them without a tuning adapter otherwise.


I agree -- SDV channels moving to linear is the most likely explanation (well, most logical explanation, at least for a layman like me), but I can't imagine they switched SDV to linear on a Tuesday morning for the whole area near me, just because I want to use a TiVo in a RFoG community. 

I'm wondering if they're able to make that change at the node level.

The tech that installed the fiber service explained that the RFoG boxes on the sides of the houses in the neighborhood were cool because each house was essentially it's own node now, vs. the traditional method of multiple houses on a street all being wired to one node.



HarperVision said:


> Could they have possibly taken advantage of the aforementioned new capability of the tivo to have built in "tuning adapter" functionality via IP to the MSO's headened?
> 
> Maybe try tuning those channels with the ethernet disconnected? Or does this work with an upstream IP on their coax possibly?


Hmmm, interesting. I could at least try unplugging the ethernet and seeing if it continues to work.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

aristoBrat said:


> Tuning either of those channels still popped up the Cable Card screen on the TiVo, however (and this is the interesting part to me), SyFy, AMC, and E! (all SDV channels in my market) started working (even though the TA was disconnected from the TiVo).
> 
> Yesterday PM:
> HBOHD and SHOHD started working. TiVo status screen shows the CC is now paired. Tuning other HBO or SHO channels don't work, though.


My first thought was that they were all moved off SDV due to the All Digital transition,
Cox will be moving all TV Essential Pak channels off SDV because the new Cox Mini HD-uDTA does not support SDV

As Cox removes the Analog version, they should be moving the SD & HD equivalents off SDV

But then looking at the schedule for Virgina Beach, you are not anywhere near the completion of the All Digital transition.
http://www.cox.com/aboutus/policies/alldigital.cox

HBOHD, HBO2HD, Showtime HD and Starz HD should not be SDV anyway.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Over the weekend, we noticed the TA's yellow light was solid. It had been blinking since we moved in.

We re-attached the TA to the TiVo, and we're now able to get the last few channels that were missing (which were most of the sub-channels for the premiums).

Thanks to everyone for all of the help!


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