# Dumbest TiVo support chat guy ever. This guys was something else!!!



## michman (Jan 27, 2008)

So I chatted online with TiVo support the other day to try to fix my HDMI handshake issue and got the dumbest tech ever. It's actually quite funny now, it pissed me off at the time.

Chad: Thank you for contacting TiVo! My name is Chad. So that I may better assist you, are you an existing customer?
Michman: yes
Michman: I am having issues with my premiere switching formats on its own
Chad: I can definitely assist you with that today! You can also access the setting through the menus by navigating to Messages and Settings > Settings > Video > Video Output Format. 
Chad: The resolutions which are checked are the "allowed" resolutions. 
Michman: yes, I often set that setting to allow all resolutions, as my new TV can handle all of them. Some times a hour later, a day later, or a couple days later the tivo automatically switches itself back to only a check mark under 480i.
Michman: This in turn causes the HD menus to turn off and has become very anoying
Chad: If your menus are reverting from the HDUI to the SDUI it could be due to a problematic internet connection. 
Chad: What is the make/model of the router? Is the TiVo box wired or wirelessly configured to it? 
Michman: it's a wireless N linksys router. The TiVo is wired.
Chad: Do you know what your upload/download internet speeds are? If so, what are your internet upload/download speeds? If not please go to http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ and do an internet speed test, but choose a Server that's on the other side of the country as opposed to one nearby. 
Michman: i'm in chicago, I chose L.A. Download speed was 13.71 Mbps and upload was 2.83Mbps
Chad: Was the internet speed being used heavily around the time the TiVo box went from the HDUI to the SDUI? 
Michman: no, and it hasn't only happened once, it has happened 40 to 50 times. It happens almost every single time I choose to do something else with my home theater like watch a DVD.
Chad: In that case, it's like the firewall on the router is involved or a problem. I would suggest contacting Linksys to determine what you can do to disable the firewall and other possible security features that could be causing communication trouble that's bad enough for the TiVo box to revert from the HDUI to the SDUI. 
Michman: why would it have anything to do with an internet connection?
Chad: Because that's what the HD UI does with a bad internet connection or internet connectivity problems. 
Michman: if I set the tivo to diplay in 1080p and 1080i it should stay that way
Michman: so theorectically if I disconnect from the internet I shouldn't have the issue?
Chad: If you disconnect from the internet you won't get the HD UI. 
Chad: An active internet connection is necessary for it at all times. 
Chad: I would suggest experimenting with the Fixed versus the Hybrid/Native resolutions to see which bring the most desirable behavior. 
Michman: how do I set a fixed resolution. That would solve my issues
Chad: On the front of the TiVo box there is a button that is labeled "Format." If the screen goes gray/black, just go ahead and press this once every few seconds to see if you can get the TiVo box's video to come back and note how it changes.

You should also notice some text on the front of the TiVo box corresponding to the output resolution of the TiVo box. Try each of these combinations at least once.

On the TiVo box itself, not on the TiVo remote.
Chad: The same setting can be accessed through the menus by navigating to Messages and Settings > Settings > Video > Video Output Format. 
Michman: OK...I have done this several, several times, it goes back to my original question. How do I get it to stay on the format I choose and not go back to 480i?
Chad: Messages and Settings > Settings > Video > Video Output Format. 
Chad: If you go there, you should be able to deselect the resolutions you do not want it to use. 
Chad: Even though your TV is capable of it, you may want to disable them for practical reasons. 
Michman: YES, I KNOW THAT. The TiVo will disregard my selection and automatically change back to 480i every time. How do I stop that? It doesn't matter what resolution I pick, it continues to go back to 480i on its own.
Chad: Okay, I am told that the TiVo Premiere will automatically select whatever is the best option, and that if you select Native it will use the resolution that you set your TV to through the TV settings. 
Michman: The TiVo premiere doesn't have an option for native, that was the TiVo HD. I think you have your products mixed up.
Chad: Yeah, that part only applies to the TiVo HD. 
Michman: So here's the deal I don't care what resolution the TiVo picks to display or how it chooses. I just want the HD menus to appear when I press the TiVo button. I paid a lot of money for this box and it doesn't perform any better than my TiVo HD did. I just want it to stop switching back to 480i every time I turn the TV and receiver off.
Chad: I understand your difficulty with the issue, and I explained that the firewall is most likely the cause of the problem of why the TiVo box is going to the SDUI (which has nothing to do with the resolution that is being displayed on the TV as the SDUI can be displayed as 1080p or 720i, not just 480i). 
Chad: The TiVo Premiere will display whatever will display best through the TV. 
Chad: You will want to look at what resolution your TV automatically sets itself to. 
Michman: Do you have anyone else well educated in the subject? I know the firewall is not the issue. The issue is the "HDMI handshake" between the TiVo and the receiver. I am trying to find out how I can get around the handshake. I am not trying to be rude, but I don't think you understand the issue.
Chad: How do you know the firewall is not the issue? Have you tried disabling it already? 
Chad: Your reference number for this conversation is. You can save this for your records, and if necessary, provide this to a later agent to pull up what we discussed. 
Chad: Thanks for contacting TiVo Chat support Jeremy! There will be a brief satisfaction survey emailed to you. We would appreciate any feedback on your TiVo Chat support experience today.

Do you have any other questions or concerns? 
Michman: I do have issues, we did not fix the problem!
Chad: I am suggesting you speak with your router manufacturer to investigate the firewall as the source of the problem (HDUI reverting to SDUI). 
Chad: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
Michman: I just disabled the firewall for the router and tried again. The TiVo did the same thing. So now we know it's not the router.
Chad: So, you are completely unable to use the HDUI?
Michman: If i change the resolution manually I can use it, but then the TiVo changes it back to 480i when I turn off the TV.
Chad: This isn't a resolution question.
Chad: When you go to TiVo Central, do you see a Picture-in-picture video on the top-right of the screen or not?
Chad: To switch from TiVo with SD menus to TiVo with HD menus, press the TiVo button to go to TiVo Central and then select Messages & Settings > Restart or Reset System > Choose TiVo Menus > TiVo with HD Menus (Widescreen).

To switch from TiVo with HD menus to TiVo with SD menus, press the TiVo button to go to TiVo Central and then select Messages & Settings > Settings > Displays > Choose TiVo Menus > TiVo with SD Menus (Standard Screen).You're very welcome, and have an excellent rest of your day! 
Michman: Yes I do see the new menus with PIP. When I turn off the TV and then back on though the menus switches to the old format.
Chad: Please hold while I contact a resource as I have never heard of this behavior. 
Chad: Is there an AV Receiver between the TV and the TiVo?
Michman: yes
Chad: In that case, I am told the AV Receiver is breaking the HDCP handshake, and that is why the HDUI would would be reverting to the SDUI. 
Michman: Is there any way to work around that?
Chad: Reboot the AV Receiver and/or TiVo box. Get an AV Receiver which properly supports HDCP, or remove the AV Receiver. 
Michman: Does TiVo have any plans to change the software to allow a fixed format like the TiVo HD? Millions of people us an A/V Receiver in their home theater setup.
Chad: It does support it FIXED video formats (press the Format button on the front of the TiVo box), and it does support AV Receivers as well, but we can't guarantee that every AV Receiver will work with it. 
Michman: By "FIXED" I mean I should be able to set the format without the TiVo changing my selection.
Chad: That is being caused by the AV Receiver. 
Chad: Your reference number for this conversation is. You can save this for your records, and if necessary, provide this to a later agent to pull up what we discussed. 
Chad: Thanks for contacting TiVo Chat support Jeremy! There will be a brief satisfaction survey emailed to you. We would appreciate any feedback on your TiVo Chat support experience today.

Do you have any other questions or concerns? 
Michman: I know. I would please like to make the suggestion to TiVo programmers to allow the user to select a format that will stay without the TiVo changing it back. That way, those of us who use receivers will be able to use the HD menus.
Chad: Okay, I'm submit that as a feature suggestion. 
Michman: Thank you. I guess my internet connection wasn't the issue after all. Sorry I wasted your time.
Chad: You're very welcome, and have an excellent rest of your day! Sorry about the confusion, and trouble! 
You have disconnected.


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

> The issue is the "HDMI handshake" between the TiVo and the receiver. I am trying to find out how I can get around the handshake. I am not trying to be rude, but I don't think you understand the issue.


I actually don't see the problem with the tech. How was he supposed to know you're going through an A/V Receiver, or your issue was with the HDCP handshake. You didn't even bring it up until the end, yet you already suspected that was the root cause. Not only that, I bet 99% of his calls with the HD switching to SD are related to internet connection issues, so that's why he focused on that.

Not to defend the guy, but these types of support calls are incredibly difficult to solve remotely, especially without all of the information.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

You expect the guy to diagnose a handshake problem between a TiVo and an A/V Receiver, without telling him what receiver you have, or even explicitly telling him you have a receiver at all? Then you call him dumb when he doesn't deduce the stuff you aren't telling him about? 

Nice.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

murgatroyd said:


> You expect the guy to diagnose a handshake problem between a TiVo and an A/V Receiver, without telling him what receiver you have, or even explicitly telling him you have a receiver at all? .


Sorry, but I have to agree with the OP. The OP clearly stated his problem was with the TiVo changing the video resolutions on its own. This has *NOTHING* to do with the Internet connection.

I am not a TiVo tech and the FIRST thing *I* would have asked after the OP's description is if he had the HDMI cable going directly from the TiVo to the TV.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Sorry, but I have to agree with the OP. The OP clearly stated his problem was with the TiVo changing the video resolutions on its own. This has *NOTHING* to do with the Internet connection.
> 
> I am not a TiVo tech and the FIRST thing *I* would have asked after the OP's description is if he had the HDMI cable going directly from the TiVo to the TV.


Would you have asked (or known to ask) that question if you were making the kind of money that Chad was ?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

good point



lessd said:


> Would you have asked (or known to ask) that question if you were making the kind of money that Chad was ?


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

crxssi said:


> Sorry, but I have to agree with the OP. The OP clearly stated his problem was with the TiVo changing the video resolutions on its own. This has *NOTHING* to do with the Internet connection.
> 
> I am not a TiVo tech and the FIRST thing *I* would have asked after the OP's description is if he had the HDMI cable going directly from the TiVo to the TV.


Yeah, me too, but so what? If you think it is the handshake between your A/V receiver and the TiVo, why not say so up front and tell the other guy on the phone what make and model of receiver you have?

I have a co-worker who pulls the same kind of crap. He has a problem, but he's too busy to call for help himself, so he gives me half the information I need and sends me off to talk to the help desk. I come back with an answer half an hour later with some piece of information and he says, "Well, I knew THAT." Dealing with people like this is annoying as hell.

I fail to see the humor in withholding information and then making fun of somebody on a forum post later. Of course I've often been accused of being humor-impaired, so YMMV.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

crxssi said:


> Sorry, but I have to agree with the OP. The OP clearly stated his problem was with the TiVo changing the video resolutions on its own. This has *NOTHING* to do with the Internet connection


It doesn't? Doesn't the Premiere start in 480i if it doesn't have an Internet connection?



> IMPORTANT:To display TiVo with HD menus, your TiVo box must have a broadband connection to the TiVo service and must be connected to an HDTV that supports 720p or better resolution and has a 16:9 (widescreen) aspect ratio. If you have this setup in place during Guided Setup, your TiVo box will automatically display HD menus after Guided Setup completes.


http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1617/kw/permiere resolution/r_id/100041

michman knew exactly what the problem was when he called. He's participated in discussions about the problem here before. He just wanted to call and complain. But he didn't give the tech enough information to start out on the right path. In spite of that, the tech eventually identified the problem.

If there was something dumb about that call, I don't think that it was "Chad."


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

nrc said:


> michman knew exactly what the problem was when he called. He's participated in discussions about the problem here before. He just wanted to call and complain. But he didn't give the tech enough information to start out on the right path. In spite of that, the tech eventually identified the problem. If there was something dumb about that call, I don't think that it was "Chad."


I re-read what he wrote after your posting, and it does seem fishy.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, after reading the entire conversation.... I vote for a very courteous rep that did indeed try to help but was not given all the information needed to diagnose the problem. 

Can we add a poll to this thing?


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## Darthsnipe (Jun 28, 2010)

Umm can we get this thread locked? I want 15 min of my life back after reading that whole post and realizing the rep was very courteous and did not know that his TiVO was attached to a receiver to identify that it was an HDMI handshake issue. Michman was right to some point but did not fully describe the connections to the TiVO unit until later.

This is just my opinion and should not be treated as offensive. And I add +1 to the poll suggestion.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

michman said:


> Michman: I just disabled the firewall for the router and tried again.


I bet you did not disable the firewall


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## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

I can't remember the last time I experienced an issue with a basic home router's firewall not allowing something like a tivo to connect to the internet to retrieve data. That's a BS solution and just an easy way for the tech to make the problem somebody else's.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wickerbill said:


> I can't remember the last time I experienced an issue with a basic home router's firewall not allowing something like a tivo to connect to the internet to retrieve data. That's a BS solution and just an easy way for the tech to make the problem somebody else's.


TiVo has a history of not having robust error handling on internet connection dependent parts of applications - so a block caused by a firewall or poorly performing router could have been the issue for the generic description of HDUI goes away and the support guy has likely had success with other users on taking that out of the equation to see if the problem goes away.

In this case knowing their was an A/V receiver and HDMI would have pointed the specific issue involved in that direction.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Why does the Premiere need an internet connection before it will display the HDUI?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

dlfl said:


> Why does the Premiere need an internet connection before it will display the HDUI?


That is a very, very good question. The two *SHOULD* be COMPLETELY unrelated. I suspect that their HDUI coding is so crappy, that the system doesn't know what to do when it can't display the on-the-fly suggestion/info stuff and annoying banner stuff. And that is at least partially because they don't cache anything, and that is partially why the HDUI is *slow* (but only partially).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Why does the Premiere need an internet connection before it will display the HDUI?


On my Premieres, the HDUI is displayed whether there a connection or not. It pops up almost instantly with no internet connection.
But it has a message that says " No Connection- You TiVo box is not connected to the Network. Some features will be unavialbale until you restore your network connection"

I can navigate "my Shows" and some other menus. But the menus that rely on connectivity, like Netflix, Amazon,etc, will not show those options.


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## rbienstock (May 8, 2007)

wickerbill said:


> I can't remember the last time I experienced an issue with a basic home router's firewall not allowing something like a tivo to connect to the internet to retrieve data. That's a BS solution and just an easy way for the tech to make the problem somebody else's.


I have this problem ALL THE TIME. My Premiere keeps hanging on its nightly connection to the TiVo servers and it fails at the configuring stage. If I disable the firewall on the router, then the connection goes through fine. I have created a rule that all ports are open in both directions to the static IP of my premiere, but that doesn't help. The only solution is to manually disable the firewall. So that's what I do: every few days I disable the firewall, manually connect and then reenable the firewall. A real pain. Only the premiere does this, not any of my S3s.


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## michman (Jan 27, 2008)

Wow, I didn't realize this would start such a war of words. In answer to you skeptics there is a reason I didn't tell him I suspected a handshake issue. I have been dealing with this for months after paying for an upgrade that gained me nothing. I have been extremely frustrated and have called and chatted with tech support several times. Every time I even say "handshake" the answer ALWAYS is; must be an issue with your TV or Receiver, contact the manufacturer. When I contact the manufacturer guess what they tell me...call TiVo.

I was really hoping there was some remote resolution I didn't know about and was actually happy when the tech went down a new path for me. It became frustrating when he clearly had no idea what he was talking about. Hell you guys look, he asked me to perform a function that doesn't even exist on this product. I don't even own a TiVo HD any more and I know it's functions better than a "TiVo technical support rep."

Also, I have posted about this issue before as one of the resonses mentioned. The only answer I have ever seen is, "TiVo is working on it." If TiVo is working on it then the rep should have been able to tell me that right away and explain that searching for a resolution that doesn't exist is a waste of time. All I'm looking for is a definative answer either way.


Just so all the haters know I ended up running an HDMI cable directly to the TV and have no issues. This shows the receiver communication with TiVo was the issue (from a brand new Yamaha recevier no less). I'm sure a majority of you out there have receivers and you should care that TiVo's flagship product has issues with compatability. TiVo needs to know to fix this.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

michman said:


> I'm sure a majority of you out there have receivers and you should care that TiVo's flagship product has issues with compatability. TiVo needs to know to fix this.


I have a receiver and always have. But I use it for audio only (TOSLINK). I have a feeling that HDMI + HDCP + different versions is the issue and probably will never get solved.


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## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

rbienstock said:


> I have this problem ALL THE TIME. My Premiere keeps hanging on its nightly connection to the TiVo servers and it fails at the configuring stage. If I disable the firewall on the router, then the connection goes through fine. I have created a rule that all ports are open in both directions to the static IP of my premiere, but that doesn't help. The only solution is to manually disable the firewall. So that's what I do: every few days I disable the firewall, manually connect and then reenable the firewall. A real pain. Only the premiere does this, not any of my S3s.


Sounds like a TiVo problem to me, not a firewall issue. I still stick with my statement that they're shifting the blame of their problem over to someone else. I realize the tech support guy is powerless to make their software work correctly and all he can really do is blame the router firewall, but that's pathetic. This isn't 2002 when I had to do all sorts of weird stuff to my router to make my playstation2 work with online play. Stuff should just be working now. It's hard to understand when the TiVo is only accessing the internet to download data why it would need all sorts of weird ports forwarded to it and not just download the freaking data. Pretty sad when my slingbox that I have to connect to from the internet works perfectly and TiVo can't even get their new box to download data.

I love TiVo and enjoy my series 3 and TiVo HD, but I feel for those of you who took the Premier plunge and are having to deal with a half-baked product.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by michman View Post
I'm sure a majority of you out there have receivers and you should care that TiVo's flagship product has issues with compatability. TiVo needs to know to fix this.

I have a RX-V1800 Yamaha receiver. I have my tivo, my dvd player and a Comcast box connected. I have not had any problem with the setup for 2 years.
Still at the first start of your call you never mention that you had it connected to a receiver that your fault. No matter how many time you call you let the support person know.
I would bypassed the receiver to make it was not that causing the problem before I called tivo support. When my Internet stops working first thing I do is take out the router. And test that way. If it still does not work I call tech support with out the router connected to the modem


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## Boomh4u3r (Sep 30, 2009)

Good luck getting any kind of decent tech support. TiVo went with a company in Colorado, and to say the least...it probably wasn't a good move for them or for you guys. 

Good luck!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

michman said:


> I was really hoping there was some remote resolution I didn't know about and was actually happy when the tech went down a new path for me. It became frustrating when he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.


so you deliberately left the problem vague and had the tech guess. Perhaps from his side the tech was thinking "this guy does not know what he is asking about. Better throw in some TiVo HD stuff in case he gave me the wrong model of TiVo as well"

so you are frustrated and decided to take it out with a rant here. understandable but still all the things we said about your post are actually _confirmed_ by what you tell us in your latest post. 



wickerbill said:


> It's hard to understand when the TiVo is only accessing the internet to download data why it would need all sorts of weird ports forwarded to it and not just download the freaking data.


The TiVo does NOT need 'all sorts of wierd' ports forwarded. Quite the opposite the tech asked him to turn off the firewall so that if typical ports were blocked by the overzealous then the TiVo could start downloading again and the tech would have the source of the issue and let the owner know they need to get some info on setting up the firewall for normal activity.


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## erikg (Aug 20, 2007)

Tech support is a touchy issue; for both sides. I don't mean to support the Tivo guy but the issue you described could have been a couple of different issues.

Sure the tech could have tried a little bit harder to assist you. Maybe even suggesting try the Tivo without the receiver; still have issues? Maybe its the TV; try it with a different TV no issues? 

There are three sides to every story; yours, theres and the truth. He may have been slow to pick up on the issue but from the sounds of the HDCP issues you're having; you might want to update the firmware on your receiver. Good luck.


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## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

> The TiVo does NOT need 'all sorts of wierd' ports forwarded. Quite the opposite the tech asked him to turn off the firewall so that if typical ports were blocked by the overzealous then the TiVo could start downloading again and the tech would have the source of the issue and let the owner know they need to get some info on setting up the firewall for normal activity.


Then why would a Series 3 work fine and the Premiere have problems if it's not a Premiere issue like the poster I quoted said? There's obviously a problem with the Premiere.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wickerbill said:


> Then why would a Series 3 work fine and the Premiere have problems if it's not a Premiere issue like the poster I quoted said? There's obviously a problem with the Premiere.


I do not have anywhere near enough info on the problem you quoted. I know I use a netgear router with full firewall and NAT set in a standard config and have no problems with a premiere connecting through it. Also S2 and TiVo HD connect just fine.
I suspect something odd in the router of the person you quoted


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## rbienstock (May 8, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I do not have anywhere near enough info on the problem you quoted. I know I use a netgear router with full firewall and NAT set in a standard config and have no problems with a premiere connecting through it. Also S2 and TiVo HD connect just fine.
> I suspect something odd in the router of the person you quoted


Nothing odd about my router, and, in fact, I have the same problem with three different routers from different manufacturers: a Linksys/Cisco RV082, a Cisco RVS4000 and a Watchguard Firebox Soho. In all three cases, there is a rule opening all ports in both direction, both TCP/IP and UDP to the IP address of my Premiere, and in all three cases the Premiere fails at the configuring stage despite the rule, but in each case, if the firewall is completely disabled, then the Premiere connects without issue. The fact that no one else seems to have this problem would clearly point to a defect in my unit, but TiVo refuses to replace it on the theory that the problem is in my network. What I plan to do when I get a chance is to put the Premiere in the DMZ on my network, that way it will be outside of the firewall, but I have to rewire my media closet to do that, and it will also mean that I can only have one Premiere on my network.


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## Daniel Skeen (Aug 5, 2010)

Humm...I keep getting this guy.....could there be more than one Chads? they have the same name but sound different!


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