# Lost -5/2/07 The Brig **Spoilers**



## BillL (Oct 6, 2004)

What the Hell....?


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

Awesome episode!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

The coming attractions look even more awesome...but don't they always.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

BillL said:


> What the Hell....?


Well, haven't the producers specifically rejected that? And as to the Purgatory, where you could earn amnesty, haven't they also shot that down?


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

Redux said:


> Well, haven't the producers specifically rejected that? And as to the Purgatory, where you could earn amnesty, haven't they also shot that down?


On numerous occasions.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

The best hour of TV I have seen in a looong time. Way to go lost!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

The man needed killin'

Could St Jack be next!!!!!


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

gossamer88 said:


> The coming attractions look even more awesome...but don't they always.


Spelling presents a problem.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

I guess losing viewers has changed the pace of the show. It seems more is happening and the show was really enjoyable. Good for John, and I liked how he ratted out Juliet. Didn't like Kate and her big mouth involving Jack with helicopter chick.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Just how many secrets are there?

Juliette is a mole and Jack doesn't know.
Juliette is a mole and Jack does know.
Juliette and Jack have a secret that Juliette thinks Kate should know.
Lock is a mole who infiltrated the Others.
Locke is on his own path.
Naomi is hidden in a tent.
There may be other pregnant women besides Sun, because the Others are coming for "them".
Richard doesn't like Ben's leadership - could he be leading a rebellion against Ben?

What a great show!


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

safe to assume that jack and julliette's secret is that kate is preggers, right?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

scheckeNYK said:


> safe to assume that jack and julliette's secret is that kate is preggers, right?


That's a good one. I guess Juliette would know before Kate because of tests they ran on her just a few days/weeks ago while Kate was in captivity?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dang!

Dang, dangety dang-dang dang!

(Hope that's not a smeek...)


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## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

Kate's got to be pregnant with James/Sawyer's baby.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

am curious that we have two people suddenly on the island and telling the same story about flight 815. Plane crash was found. No survivors.

Hmmmm. Sounds a bit fishy to me.

And as Sawyer was strangling Dad, all I could think of was the scene in Return of the Jedi when Leia strangles Jabba. Jabba and Locke's dad....both pretty slimey.

Oh and YEAH Sawyer!! I know you didn't want to do it, but glad you did.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

So, what's the crazy French lady gonna do with the dynamite?


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

This EP has too much *relevant information* all at once.
My head is still spinning!


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> So, what's the crazy French lady gonna do with the dynamite?


 *Good* Question*.*


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Most amazing is the sudden unexpected culture change where some Losties are actually TALKING TO EACH OTHER ABOUT WHAT"S HAPPENING!!!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

A little bit talking, a little bit snitching ...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> am curious that we have two people suddenly on the island and telling the same story about flight 815. Plane crash was found. No survivors.
> 
> Hmmmm. Sounds a bit fishy to me.


Any faint doubts I had after last week were laid to rest by Sawyer-Locke's story, about the car crash that he clearly survived, only to be put under by a mysterious person's injection and wake up on the island. Not to mention finding a plane in an oceanic trench (conceivable, but barely), where it would only be accessible through dim, grainy video from submarine drones.

At this point, I doubt the writers even intend us to wonder. I think this is just meant to mess with the Losties' minds, not ours.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

So, Locke's father thought he was in Hell.

I'm certain that's not the case, for numerous reasons.

So, let's interpret what he described happening to him "correctly", shall we?

He's driving near Tallahassee. (Interesting how the others' code name for him was "The Man from Tallahassee".)

Car runs him off the road. (Accident set up by the Others.)

Ambulance comes, (fake Ambulance, operated by the others), "paramedic" administers an IV (Locke's father said "Just as he inserted the IV...), Locke's father falls asleep (duh!). Wakes up on the island (duh, again). Not entirely unlike Juliet (albeit she came more willingly).

Confirmation: Locke's father was the "real Sawyer". (Several people guessed this, myself included.)

Another observation: Locke's father seemed to arrive right about the same time Locke blew up the submarine (or did he really?) If this is so, they have _another sub_, or other means of transport to and from the island (that Locke's father arrived in).

Right about the time Locke blew up the sub, Ben was informed "The Man From Tallahassee has arrived."


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

drew2k said:


> A little bit talking, a little bit snitching ...


YEP!!!
Kate is a snitch. She apparently told Jack without approval.
Or did I see that wrong?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not to mention finding a plane in an oceanic trench (conceivable, but barely), where it would only be accessible through dim, grainy video from submarine drones.


Creative way for the others (or, maybe more accurately, their "parent organization") to have faked the crash.

Dim, grainy photos taken by robotic drones. No DNA tests, no dental record checks, even no real legible conclusive identification of the plane itself.

Very clever, those others!


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## dkim68 (Apr 23, 2007)

Fish Man said:


> Car runs him off the road. (Accident set up by the Others.)
> 
> Ambulance comes, (fake Ambulance, operated by the others), "paramedic" administers an IV (Locke's father said "Just as he inserted the IV...), Locke's father falls asleep (duh!). Wakes up on the island (duh, again). Not entirely unlike Juliet (albeit she came more willingly).


Exact-a-mundo! :up:


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

skinnyjm said:


> YEP!!!
> Kate is a snitch. She apparently told Jack without approval.
> Or did I see that wrong?


My take also.

Hopefully Sawyer will get back with that tape recorder before it can do too much damage!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> So, let's interpret what he described happening to him "correctly", shall we?


...and I'm sure the only reason HE interpreted it the way he did is because the first thing he sees when he wakes up is his "dead" son.


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Any faint doubts I had after last week were laid to rest by Sawyer-Locke's story, about the car crash that he clearly survived, only to be put under by a mysterious person's injection and wake up on the island. Not to mention finding a plane in an oceanic trench (conceivable, but barely), where it would only be accessible through dim, grainy video from submarine drones.
> 
> At this point, I doubt the writers even intend us to wonder. I think this is just meant to mess with the Losties' minds, not ours.


WOW, That's a HEAVY Duty statement.
You just had to make me activate my brain.

:up:


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Locke is the cowardliest coward who ever cowered.

They need to have a lot more of these mini flashbacks. Important stuff actually happened for the whole episode not just the usual half.

I hate Juliet's smugness. I hate Jack, period. I'm pretty sure the writers will find a way to make Jack the hero of Juliet's dastardly doings, but I can't stand him. Hope Sayid kills him somehow.

Remind me to never tell Kate a secret. 

The Locke/Rousseau/dynamite scene was surreal.

I just can't accept the fact that the Others were just going to stand there dispassionately and watch Locke stab his father to death. I just can't buy that.

All in all, a very good episode.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

The "Magic Box"
=
"It was a metaphor, John."

The last 30 minutes of this episode was really good, but I don't think it was "The Best Hour of TV" as someone said. 

And yes, people are actually talking to each other/revealing info to others. "Why didn't anyone tell me?" Duh Jack, Kate just said that they didn't trust you, and they don't trust Juliet. It was kind of rotten, Kate tells Jack AND Juliet something secret, but Juliet and Jack don't tell her their secret. 

"Is it true?"
"Is what true?"
"That he threw you out of a window. That you are a cripple."
"Not anymore."


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> Most amazing is the sudden unexpected culture change where some Losties are actually TALKING TO EACH OTHER ABOUT WHAT"S HAPPENING!!!


And yet, no one told Sawyer about the Black Rock ship. He was awfully surprised.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

God damn lost keeps on delivering this spring season. James and Locke's old man was pretty off the charts awesome. They are nicely setting up kate vs juliet can't wait till they find out she is a mole. The plane being in a trench is pretty convienent 4 miles down no chance to really identify anything. I thought the magnetic force was destroyed I wonder what the interferance is. Any episode that has a lot of locke always kicks ass.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

betts4 said:


> And yet, no one told Sawyer about the Black Rock ship. He was awfully surprised.


Yeah, you think they would have told him at some point. Let's see, Jack, Hurley, Kate and Artz go off into the jungle. Artz doesn't come back and is never seen again, except Hurley might have had some Artz on him!!! You think people including Sawyer might wonder what happened. (And not want to go into the jungle with those three!!)


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Sawyer was off on the raft when the first group came back from the Black Rock. By the time he got back to the beach they had other things on their minds.

TPTB said in one of the podcasts that they had previously written scenes where the Losties were talking to each other about things but that they had cut them as being wasted screen time (since the things they were talking about were things that we, the audience, already knew about). They said we were supposed to assume that they were talking to each other off-camera. Apparently they have heard the complaint enough now though that they have started making it more explicit.

As for the wreckage... Remember, the tides came in and washed the fuselage off the beach. The tail section crashed in the water in the first place. How difficult would it have been for the Others to use their sub to tow the wreckage sections somewhere, drop them off then let someone find them? Seems a simple enough explanation for the wreckage being discovered to me.


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## renov (Jan 27, 2006)

Wow, that was a great episode. I am actually from Jasper, Alabama. Nice to see the hometown get a mention.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Great episode.

I'm wondering if Juliet is playing double secret agent and that she is planning something with Jack against the Others. Of course, if that's true, Sawyer could really mess things up with that tape.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...and I'm sure the only reason HE interpreted it the way he did is because the first thing he sees when he wakes up is his "dead" son.


That + he wasn't exactly finding it an enjoyable experience.

I thought it was weird that he was provoking Locke and then James into killing him. I guess if he thought he was already in hell, what the hell.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> Most amazing is the sudden unexpected culture change where some Losties are actually TALKING TO EACH OTHER ABOUT WHAT"S HAPPENING!!!


Most episodes I'm wanting them to quit keeping so many secrets. This time, I'm watching, thinking, "Don't tell Kate, Sayid," then "Don't tell Jack and Jules, Kate."

But great episode; even though I'd read some spoilers and knew more than I wish I had, it was still riveting.


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

You must overcome your demons in this place.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> The coming attractions look even more awesome...but don't they always.


If you haven't already, go back and do a frame-by-frame on the previews. Lots of interesting frames there that you might not have seen watching it real time.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

appleye1 said:


> If you haven't already, go back and do a frame-by-frame on the previews. Lots of interesting frames there that you might not have seen watching it real time.


I think I'll wait a week and watch them real time. 

Greg


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Wow-now that's the quality of LOST that I used to love. I lost complete faith in this show in the first 6 episodes this season, but I am fully back on track now. This show has completely redeemed itself in my eyes.

What a show!


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Also-did anyone else think the Pillar that Cooper was tied to is the same type of relic as the four toed statue? It seemed ancient...


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

tanstaafl said:


> As for the wreckage... Remember, the tides came in and washed the fuselage off the beach. The tail section crashed in the water in the first place. How difficult would it have been for the Others to use their sub to tow the wreckage sections somewhere, drop them off then let someone find them? Seems a simple enough explanation for the wreckage being discovered to me.


Helicopter chick said they found all of the bodies in there though.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

justapixel said:


> Helicopter chick said they found all of the bodies in there though.


Well, she was just going by what CNN was saying.


Oh and how does Ford look now that he's a now a twice premeditated murderer?

Also, put me down in the camp that says Juliet and Jack are scheming together against Ben.


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> So, what's the crazy French lady gonna do with the dynamite?


I am going to guess she is going to get her daughter back in a most magnificent way.
Agreed, after a slowish start this season, the 2nd half has been delivering like crazy with just amazing episode after amazing episode.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Oh and how does Ford look now that he's a now a twice premeditated murderer?


I wouldn't call this ep's murder premeditated. He was emotionally insane at the moment, and when Locke's dad tore up the letter, Ford went bonkers. Plus Locke totally maneuvered him into the situation.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

renov said:


> Wow, that was a great episode. I am actually from Jasper, Alabama. Nice to see the hometown get a mention.


I went to college with a couple girls from Jasper, and we went over there one weekend.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Um, I can't remember, is Lost back or what?  


Freakin awesome ep, with lots of nice reveals.

I also was like "WTF" when Kate immediately blabbed to Jack. But why would someone who so fiercely keeps her own secrets suddenly have no problem something really important to Jack in front of Juliet with no hesitation? It occurred to me that she (and Sayid, Hugo, et al) was setting up Jack and maybe Juliette too. I think they are going to try and test their loyalties. The preview for next week also seems to support this.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

I love Lost. Liked this episode but I new where they were going the whole time in this episode. It was like yes, now Locke tricks Sawyer into coming with him, now Sawyer figures out who he is, now read the letter, now kill him. No Locke is going to take the body to Henry not dome back

It was really predictable, still fun but not a lot of surprises and I am not that smart. My attention to detail is not so great and I saw this all coming from way off. As I am sure did most of you.

A few twists with clarification on the found plane and Locke getting James file but nothing new or earth shattering IMVHO.

I do like where they are going and that they have picked up the pace. Just felt this was the next logical step that we all knew was coming.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> TPTB said in one of the podcasts that they had previously written scenes where the Losties were talking to each other about things but that they had cut them as being wasted screen time (since the things they were talking about were things that we, the audience, already knew about). They said we were supposed to assume that they were talking to each other off-camera. Apparently they have heard the complaint enough now though that they have started making it more explicit.


It's actually quite true about storytelling. It interupts the flow to constantly have the characters tell other characters stuff that we the audience already know.

It's why the narration in Arrested Development was a brilliant device, because the narrator setup each scene, and we didn't have to have the characters be too talky.

I think they just are taking a few extra seconds for characters to know things that happened to other characters, to then let the audience fill in the blanks.

You can take 10 seconds do this, instead of the minutes it would take to show the original conversation on camera.

As for this episode, I was so hoping Locke had that recorder for Sawyer 

About the "they're dead" part, nothing has changed from last week's thread where most people assumed that the Dharmites faked a crash. We don't know if the authorities went as far as finding bodies, and even confirm the identities of those bodies, but I think we might assume they could fake the id's too.

-smak-

ps. Wtf Kate?? I have no idea what could have provoked her to do that.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

gchance said:


> > Originally Posted by appleye1
> > If you haven't already, go back and do a frame-by-frame on the previews. Lots of interesting frames there that you might not have seen watching it real time.
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely! I was talking to gossammer88, if you're not usually a preview watcher absolutely do not do what I said.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

justapixel said:


> Helicopter chick said they found all of the bodies in there though.


Couldn't helicopter chick be an undercover other? ("undercover other" - I like the sound of that!)

Who knows if anything she says is true.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

laststarfighter said:


> I also was like "WTF" when Kate immediately blabbed to Jack. But why would someone who so fiercely keeps her own secrets suddenly have no problem something really important to Jack in front of Juliet with no hesitation? It occurred to me that she (and Sayid, Hugo, et al) was setting up Jack and maybe Juliette too. I think they are going to try and test their loyalties. The preview for next week also seems to support this.


Well, one thing the show seems to have forgotten (but maybe hasn't?) is that in the past, they have set Kate up as being REALLY not a nice person--basically a charming sociopath.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

laststarfighter said:


> I also was like "WTF" when Kate immediately blabbed to Jack. But why would someone who so fiercely keeps her own secrets suddenly have no problem something really important to Jack in front of Juliet with no hesitation? It occurred to me that she (and Sayid, Hugo, et al) was setting up Jack and maybe Juliette too. I think they are going to try and test their loyalties. The preview for next week also seems to support this.


If there was one person that would still trust Jack and be willing to tell him, it would be Kate. She may have a thing for Sawyer, but she still has a thing for Jack, too. And she probably knows (or thinks she does) Jack better than anybody else in the group. The only reason she wouldn't have wanted to tell Jack was due the wishes of Desmond and Co., but I think the girl being very hurt probably trumped that.

As for speaking in front of Juliette... she might not like Juliette, but also probably feels that Juliette, stuck in their group, is of no real threat.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Locke's dad seemed TOO evil. I was half expecting him to turn into the smoke monster when Sawyer was strangling him. Wouldn't you be scared and apologetic if you thought you were in hell? Maybe not.

I'm more confused than ever about what the Others are doing now. Looks like Ben is no doing what they are supposed to be focusing on. Jacob should be coming into the picture soon.

Jack and Juliette are plotting against Ben. Jack may not know about Juliette and the tape recorder. Jack knows something about the island dealing with the parachutist? Locke is somehow the person the others think will "save" them? The kids and flight attendant have become others without question? 

What the heck is going on?! I've never been this confused and entertained at the same time.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

laststarfighter said:


> I also was like "WTF" when Kate immediately blabbed to Jack. But why would someone who so fiercely keeps her own secrets suddenly have no problem something really important to Jack in front of Juliet with no hesitation? It occurred to me that she (and Sayid, Hugo, et al) was setting up Jack and maybe Juliette too. I think they are going to try and test their loyalties. The preview for next week also seems to support this.


I thought about this late last night and wondered if that was some planning that went on behind the scenes with Sayid and such.

Or, if maybe Kate is telling Jack because she wants to regain his trust....and hi love....back. She may like Sawyer but she loves Jack and wants to be the sparkle in his eye again. To be able to give him the sly half smiles and laugh with him. To have his shoulder to cry on when she needs to and to be told she is a good person, as he did for her in the past.


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

spikedavis said:


> Also-did anyone else think the Pillar that Cooper was tied to is the same type of relic as the four toed statue? It seemed ancient...


Yep. Turned to my wife and said the same thing when we first saw him tied to the pillar.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> Another observation: Locke's father seemed to arrive right about the same time Locke blew up the submarine (or did he really?) If this is so, they have _another sub_, or other means of transport to and from the island (that Locke's father arrived in).
> 
> Right about the time Locke blew up the sub, Ben was informed "The Man From Tallahassee has arrived."


I am telling you, he did not destroy the sub...thats my story and I am sticking to it. They keep reminding us of the destroyed sub, so my guess is that it is still around somewhere....


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

I think that Jack and Juliet are conspiring against Ben and the Others. They know when the Others will be arriving ("See you in ten days") and are planning to intercept them when they do.

But, for whatever reason, they are keeping their plans a secret for now. Maybe they think the beach camp is under observation or something and, if they reveal themselves too soon, the behavior of those on the beach will change enough that the Others will know they are up to something.

So they are (or were) planning to reveal what was going on to the others (as opposed to the Others) at close to the last minute. Of course, when Sawyer returns with the tape recorder the cat may be out of the bag a lot sooner.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

So now that Sawyer has found and killed the "Tom Sawyer" who swindled his family, will he go back to being James? Not really any reason for him to be Sawyer anymore.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

I think Rousseau took the dynamite because she has a heart condition and she licks the nitro off the sweaty sticks!


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I haven't read anyone mention this so here goes. Ben says everything for a reason. He tells Locke that Julliete is a mole. I think he expected Locke to get word to the Lost crew. He probably thinks Julliete is up to no good.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> The last 30 minutes of this episode was really good, but I don't think it was "The Best Hour of TV" as someone said.


That was me and I wrote it was the best hour of TV in a looong time.

I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Usually I just watch TV while browsing the web on my laptop, not this episode of Lost.

I am not sure I could even pinpoint the best hour of TV, maybe the first time I saw The Wizard of Oz when I was six years old, or maybe King Kong (original). During King Kong I was maybe six years old also, when the big ape first appeared my father now tells me I said, "Holly Sh*t"! Ok those were more than an hour. But it would be hard to grab just an hour and say that was the best.

Does anybody even read these threads when they go past 5 or six pages, isn't it all just smeeks after the third page?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't think the only secret jack and juliet know involves kate being prego. If that is the secret, the scene did not play right. They played it like they knew something relevant to the parachutist info. Like maybe Juliet told Jack that the others faked the submerged plane and no one was likely coming to rescue them.

I don't think they could have relocated the various sections, since the new lady said that the entire plane was found intact, didn't she?

I thought this episode was weaker than the last two. The storyline with Locke just wasn't quite up to par with the previous weeks. I'm slowly starting to forget how pointless the rest of the season was as they finally reveal information.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

If we are going on screen time only, we have no indicator that Kate is pregnant except that she has slept with Sawyer 3 times and that he is more potent sperm wise.

The secret that Jack and Juliette have might have to do with them turning on Ben. Or maybe Juliette told Jack about Dharma. Too much stuff going on.

Just trying to remember, did the others get the boat Desmond came on?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

MasterCephus said:


> Just trying to remember, did the others get the boat Desmond came on?


Didn't desmond sail away on it once the losties arrived in the hatch, then it sank and he washed ashore?


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Sayid, Jin and Sun took Desmond's boat around the Island when Jack, Kate and Sawyer were kidnapped. Sayid and Jin used it as bait in a trap for the Others but the Others came from the sea (instead of from the land) and stole it. That's when Sun shot Colleen. So presumably the Others have it now, somewhere.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Wow, my memory sucks, once again.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Surprised no one thought to tell Sayid, Locke, Kate or the rest of the camp that Patchy was still alive, or the fact that someone who seemed to be dead came back to live...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Paperboy2003 said:


> Surprised no one thought to tell Sayid, Locke, Kate or the rest of the camp that Patchy was still alive, or the fact that someone who seemed to be dead came back to live...


What makes you think they didn't?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

justapixel said:


> Helicopter chick said they found all of the bodies in there though.


As was discussed last week, with the power and influence that the Others' parent organization appears to have, they could have either:


Staged a "fake" crash, for the investigators to find.
Paid off investigators to lie about what they found.

In this episode, we learn that the plane was found in a deep ocean crevice. 4 miles deep.

At that depth, all they could have done was taken blurry, murky photos with a robotic drone. No dental record confirmation, no DNA confirmation, no clear visual identification of the "bodies".

A great :up: explanation as to how a crash might have been faked!

If they planted a plane full of mannequins for the robotic drones to photograph, the CNN version would have been: "Flight 815 found with bodies of all passengers and crew aboard."


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

So, it wasn't until AFTER the show went off that I realized there were no off island flashbacks in this episode. 

Too bad Sawyer didn't beat up Locke and drag him back to camp. At the end, I thought the Black Rock was going to blow up with Locke's dad inside...leaving Locke empty handed. But I guess Locke will actually become one of the others now.

Could they think Locke is their Jacob???


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MasterCephus said:


> If we are going on screen time only, we have no indicator that Kate is pregnant except that she has slept with Sawyer 3 times and that he is more potent sperm wise.
> 
> The secret that Jack and Juliette have might have to do with them turning on Ben. Or maybe Juliette told Jack about Dharma. Too much stuff going on.
> 
> Just trying to remember, did the others get the boat Desmond came on?


I thought about this last night and I can't remember who Kate slept with BEFORE going to the Lost camp? And when were the tests on Kate performed to confirm her pregnancy (is she is?)

I thought first, maybe the tests were done while she was handcuffed and before she was in the dress having breakfast with Ben. But maybe it was while she was gassed? I guess that could be true, but can you tell pregnancy after just a week or so after sex? It hasn't been that much longer for the cage sex has it? Maybe the stuff before breakfast with Ben was to see if she was ovulating? Then they set her and Sawyer up in a situation where sex is a needed emotional release. (capture, hard work, stress, fear of unkown)


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Wow, my memory sucks, once again.


That makes two of us.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Hope this wasn't said last week or this, but in terms of the "found flight" and all that w/ ALL the passengers

I wonder if the others or whatever set that all up w/ the plane and bodies? Is that possible.


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## amory (Jan 24, 2002)

Re: Jack and Juliette's secret . . . maybe Juliette is pregnant by Jack (admittedly very short time period in which she would know for sure, but she is the specialist). This would help explain Jack's seemingly unreasonable loyalty to her.

Also, WHY did the Other's leave their village, and WHY are they on the move? I would think they could have pursued any of these angles with Locke while still at their home base. Did they do all of this just to set up the situation with Juliette and Kate? If so, I would have moved back in pretty quickly afterwards.

Edited to add: I am also curious as to how Locke was able to get his father to the Brig by himself. He sure seemed like one tough old bastard.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I have no respect for either Jack or Kate now. I like that there are other Losties off doing their own thing for the good of all of them. Someone should remind Jack of the Live Together Die Alone speech he gave and get him to inform them of his plans. 

And why does the "she's under my protection" phrase that Jack uses really count. Everyone is doubting Jack now. And has he regained his 'leadership' role? No one seemed upset when Sawyer was tortured for some info on an asthema rx. I am glad they let Sayid know about the girl.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> Hope this wasn't said last week or this, but in terms of the "found flight" and all that w/ ALL the passengers
> 
> I wonder if the others or whatever set that all up w/ the plane and bodies? Is that possible.


Discussed extensively in this thread and last weeks.

Smeek much?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Discussed extensively in this thread and last weeks.
> 
> Smeek much?


just a lot


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I've been thinking about something. Do the Others know about Desmond? They have intel on everyone from flight 815 because they were able to get ahold of the flight manifest. But Desmond is something of a wild card. I've never heard The Others mention him and maybe that will be some kind of advantage against them.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

spikedavis said:


> I've been thinking about something. Do the Others know about Desmond? They have intel on everyone from flight 815 because they were able to get ahold of the flight manifest. But Desmond is something of a wild card. I've never heard The Others mention him and maybe that will be some kind of advantage against them.


We saw in Julliets flash backs that her and Ben had been in the Pearl. The hatch with the video camera monitors. They would have seen Desmond in there in prior visits.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Fish Man said:


> If they planted a plane full of mannequins for the robotic drones to photograph, the CNN version would have been: "Flight 815 found with bodies of all passengers and crew aboard."


Once again, you and me are on the same page here.

Back in "The Man from Talahassee" were we led to believe (via clever misdirection) that John Locke was the man Ben was requesting be brought to him?

Can someone remind me about James/Sawyer's first flashback when we learned that his parents were conned/killed. I forgot the details about the whole letter and the "did he or didn't he" take the conman's name.

And what was James/Sawyer's comment about a bunny with a number on it or something when he attacked John Locke?

Another GREAT episode for the spring season... lots of answers and build-up to the season finale!

PS I officially now HATE Jack!


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

I think this show dropped a major hint about dissent within the Others' ranks. Why would Richard subvert Ben in a big way by giving Locke Sawyer's dossier? Is Richard angling for Ben's job or is there really unhappiness in paradise? What did he mean by focusing on more important things than fertility issues? Or was Richard working under Ben's orders and by giving Locke the information, Ben gets to assert leadership and remain appearing strong while allowing Locke to join them. 

Man, this episode is really messing with my mind. It's been a while since LOST grabbed me by the jugular and refused to let go. Not that I lost the faith. I always knew it was there, it just needed to do some setting up to get there. But now we're racing towards the end of S3, it's so much fun.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> *snip* And what was James/Sawyer's comment about a bunny with a number on it or something when he attacked John Locke?


It was referring to an earlier episode this season when Ben conned Sawyer by allowing him to believe the Others had implanted an implant that would cause Sawyer to die if he got his heartbeat too high. He did this by having a rabbit with a number 8 painted on it "die" from stress. This was in the same episode that we learned (via Ben and Sawyer) of the Others' island.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

spikedavis said:


> I've been thinking about something. Do the Others know about Desmond? They have intel on everyone from flight 815 because they were able to get ahold of the flight manifest. But Desmond is something of a wild card. I've never heard The Others mention him and maybe that will be some kind of advantage against them.


Interesting point.

The others, rather surprisingly, did not seem to appreciate the importance of the "numbers" hatch (The Swan). They appear to have been genuinely taken by surprise at the consequences of not pushing the button and having to turn the failsafe key. Indeed, the others still seem to have no clue what caused, "the sky to turn purple" (their description of the event).

So, they may have considered that guy living in the Swan hatch to have been of little importance as well. Although they may have been aware of his presence, they may have been largely ignoring him.

On the other hand, this would be a bit out of character for them. They seem to want to know all the minute details about anyone who's on the island. (Then, again, they know Desmond couldn't have been a pregnant woman, so maybe no interest there...)


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

tewcewl said:


> I think this show dropped a major hint about dissent within the Others' ranks. Why would Richard subvert Ben in a big way by giving Locke Sawyer's dossier? Is Richard angling for Ben's job or is there really unhappiness in paradise?
> <snip>
> But now we're racing towards the end of S3, it's so much fun.


I vote for no dissent. I think everything we have seen from the Others related to subversion is misdirection. I think--with the possible exception of Juliette--every Other is on the same page. We only see this dissent when they are dealing with the Losties. We don't see it in their interactions with each other (which the producers rarely show us). I think they are manipulating the Losties for some goal which we are not aware of yet. When we finally meet/see "Jacob", I think we will get more info as to the "why". BTW, have there been any clues given that we *will* meet Jacob? Not spoilers, but episode clues?

On the racing to the end of S3, let's not forget this is LOST. We will get lots of answers, and all kinds of OMG moments in the next three weeks. But they *will* end it with a big cliffhanger or two, and leave us dangling until January 2008.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I wouldn't call this ep's murder premeditated. He was emotionally insane at the moment, and when Locke's dad tore up the letter, Ford went bonkers. Plus Locke totally maneuvered him into the situation.


Sure it is.
He's been wanting to kill "Sawyer" for years. Why do you think he's been carrying around that letter all this time?


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## Sromkie (Aug 15, 2002)

In context of the conversation with Kate, Jack, and Juliet about the radio phone: The secret that Jack and Juliet have could simply be that they know that extra-island communications have been impossible since the hatch exploded. The station with all of the communications equipment to contact the outside world was pretty much useless after the Swan's failsafe was used. Kate was talking about how they are trying to get the satellite phone working; Juliet may have simply wanted to tell her, "don't bother." Jack likes everyone to have hope, and also may have figured that would keep some of them busy, so he didn't want to mention what he had learned.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

On the previews for next week (generic talk, no spoilers!) ...

I watch Lost with my wife; it's one of the few shows we watch together, and live (well, TiVo live, which means wait 17.5 minutes, then watch). She loves the show, but is not into all the easter eggs, internet threads, spoilers, etc. She doesn't avoid spoilers, just doesn't hunt them the way I do.  

IAC, we're watching the previews, much of which was very fast single frame, "now you see it, now you don't" shots, and she actually turns to me and says, "Show me that again." After a 2nd watching she says, "Can you slow it down?"

We watched the previews in slo-mo. My wife, with her jaded, cynical "I just watch the show and don't care about all this other stuff attitude" was mouth hanging open stunned. The previews, when you watch them frame-by-frame (as mentioned several posts back) are astounding. I don't think of them as spoilers, because they can manipulate the previews to misdirect us. But just the myriad of images shown last night were mind blowing.

And I kept it spoiler free! :up:


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

MasterCephus said:


> If we are going on screen time only, we have no indicator that Kate is pregnant except that she has slept with Sawyer 3 times and that he is more potent sperm wise.
> 
> The secret that Jack and Juliette have might have to do with them turning on Ben. Or maybe Juliette told Jack about Dharma. Too much stuff going on.
> 
> Just trying to remember, did the others get the boat Desmond came on?


In a recent episode Juliette said that Kate is pregnant.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

I agree, the previews were great. I singleframed them a few times myself!



astrohip said:


> On the previews for next week (generic talk, no spoilers!) ...
> 
> I watch Lost with my wife; it's one of the few shows we watch together, and live (well, TiVo live, which means wait 17.5 minutes, then watch). She loves the show, but is not into all the easter eggs, internet threads, spoilers, etc. She doesn't avoid spoilers, just doesn't hunt them the way I do.
> 
> ...


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

tanstaafl said:


> As for the wreckage... Remember, the tides came in and washed the fuselage off the beach. The tail section crashed in the water in the first place. How difficult would it have been for the Others to use their sub to tow the wreckage sections somewhere, drop them off then let someone find them? Seems a simple enough explanation for the wreckage being discovered to me.


The specifically addressed this in the show. Sawyer asked Locke Sr. if he meant they found pieces of the plane and Locke Sr. replied that they had found the whole thing.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> In a recent episode Juliette said that Kate is pregnant.


Which episode? Can someone confirm this?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

JMikeD said:


> Which episode? Can someone confirm this?


What? Trust issues? 
She refers to Kate as "Austen", either last week's episode or the one before that.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Referring to her as Austen does not mean she is pregnant.

"Ben, it's 6am on Saturday morning. Kwan is pregnant. The fetus is healthy and was conceived on island with her husband. He was sterile before they got here. I'm still working on getting samples from the other women. I should have Austen's soon."


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Referring to her as Austen does not mean she is pregnant.


No, but "getting samples from pregnant women, including Austen", does.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

DUDE_NJX said:


> In a recent episode Juliette said that Kate is pregnant.


I don't think so. Do you mean on the tape recording? She said she was going to have samples from Kate to analyze soon. That certainly implies that they think she is/might be pregnant, but I don't think we know for sure.

I will go against the flow and say I didn't love this episode. I don't like the Hell thing, and I don't like the peer pressure to murder someone thing. Why were the others so insistent that John kill that guy? Did they all have to kill someone to become an other? I know Locke is easily manipulated and all, but I'm disappointed he has so little moral fiber left that he would buy into that.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

No indication that the other women are pegnant. They are getting samples to determine that.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Well, that's how I interpreted that.

Anyway, back to the producers claiming the purgatory theory is wrong. What do people expect them to say? I mean, if anyone had figured out the truth about what the island is and posed that question to the producers, would you expect them to say "yes, that's exactly what it is!" ?


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

OK, did anyone else have an immediate connection to Hello, my name is Inigo Montaya, you killed my father, prepare to die moment when James handed Locks dad that letter? 

What a great episode! And those previouis were awesome! They throw bunch of images at you with-out telling you what is going to happen. Pretty cool, if you ask me . But there is no way someone could have registered more than 1/4 of this information if they didnt do frame freeze. Even slow motion was way too fast!


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Would someone post up a spoilerized summary of the previews? I didnt catch them and have already deleted the episode.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

tewcewl said:


> It was referring to an earlier episode this season when Ben conned Sawyer by allowing him to believe the Others had implanted an implant that would cause Sawyer to die if he got his heartbeat too high. He did this by having a rabbit with a number 8 painted on it "die" from stress. This was in the same episode that we learned (via Ben and Sawyer) of the Others' island.


Or maybe they really did implant Sawyer (as we now know they are capable of with the issue with Claire) and are waiting for the right time to trigger. Or maybe it is a GPS bug in Sawyers case.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

TR7spyder said:


> OK, did anyone else have an immediate connection to Hello, my name is Inigo Montaya, you killed my father, prepare to die moment when James handed Locks dad that letter?


 Nice reference.

"Stop rhyming, I mean it!"
"Anybody got a peanut?"



brianp6621 said:


> Wow, the thread is only 75 posts long. Not that hard to skim through


Actually your post was 102.

Now maybe I'm a sick puppy, but wouldn't it be easier if Locke cut daddy's head off and carry that back as proof instead of lugging the whole body halfway across the island? He looked heavy. Plus I would think that a big rotting corpse would attract too much animal attention as he moved across through the landscape.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

appleye1 said:


> If you haven't already, go back and do a frame-by-frame on the previews. Lots of interesting frames there that you might not have seen watching it real time.


I have screen shots from the previews here.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

MegaHertz67 said:


> Actually your post was 102.


Yeah but when he posted there were only 75 to read through.
Regardless I deleted my post as once I kept reading I saw someone else called him on it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I just don't buy the whole thing about the plane being found intact on the bottom of the ocean with all the bodies aboard. I'm thinking that those two things can't go together. If a plane crashes into the ocean at full speed, the chances of it staying intact and not breaking up is about 0%. So for a plane to be found intact on the bottom, it would have to have been a much more controlled crash, in which case the passengers would have been able to use the emergency exit slides and "seat cushion flotation devices" to get out of the plane before the fuselage filled up with water and sank. So either the plane is in pieces on the bottom of the ocean with dead passengers scattered all over, or it's intact on the bottom of the ocean, but there aren't any bodies inside.

Hence, as everyone has already said, it's got to be a con job by the Others.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

devdogaz said:


> I just don't buy the whole thing about the plane being found intact on the bottom of the ocean with all the bodies aboard. I'm thinking that those two things can't go together. If a plane crashes into the ocean at full speed, the chances of it staying intact and not breaking up is about 0%. So for a plane to be found intact on the bottom, it would have to have been a much more controlled crash, in which case the passengers would have been able to use the emergency exit slides and "seat cushion flotation devices" to get out of the plane before the fuselage filled up with water and sank. So either the plane is in pieces on the bottom of the ocean with dead passengers scattered all over, or it's intact on the bottom of the ocean, but there aren't any bodies inside.
> 
> Hence, as everyone has already said, it's got to be a con job by the Others.


I'm not sure they said intact, just that they found the whole thing. So the others could have faked it that they found all the parts on the bottom of the sea, but not necessarily intact.


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## Sromkie (Aug 15, 2002)

Ruth said:


> <snip>...and I don't like the peer pressure to murder someone thing. Why were the others so insistent that John kill that guy? Did they all have to kill someone to become an other? I know Locke is easily manipulated and all, but I'm disappointed he has so little moral fiber left that he would buy into that.


I was disappointed with this, too. For all of the talk about them taking only the good ones, they sure don't seem to have such a big problem with murder.

_Kill the man who is defenseless and tied to a tree. Don't worry, we are all good people. This will make you good like the rest of us._ 

But, as a whole, I very much liked the episode.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Well, that's how I interpreted that.
> 
> Anyway, back to the producers claiming the purgatory theory is wrong. What do people expect them to say? I mean, if anyone had figured out the truth about what the island is and posed that question to the producers, would you expect them to say "yes, that's exactly what it is!" ?


I don't believe for a second that it's purgatory. I think that we're supposed to think it, and suspect it, but there will be some twist at some point that will blow our minds. The way the producers talk about when they pitched the show to ABC, it would not have been so enthusiastically picked up if it were just a show about people in an island purgatory having to redeem themselves.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianp6621 said:


> I'm not sure they said intact, just that they found the whole thing. So the others could have faked it that they found all the parts on the bottom of the sea, but not necessarily intact.


No, they pretty clearly said it was intact. IIRC, one of the Losties asked Nessa, er Naomi, if they found the pieces (since they probably thought that the pieces had simply washed out to sea and been found, but she said it was found intact in a trench 4 miles deep off the coast of Bali (which also means it was probably at least 1000 miles from where they presumably are).


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Chibbie said:


> I have screen shots from the previews here.


 Interesting. I just clicked through those, and of the 12 scenes recapped there, I only caught three of them at regular speed.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

So have we really gone 100+ posts without a single person on this thread saying they do think the Island is, in fact, Hell? That's awesome! I love the way the show consistently brings up possible explanations in one breath and dismisses them in the next. I can't wait to see, at the end of the run, what the real explanation winds up being. While I don't think they are in Hell, this episode did remind me of the conversation that Sawyer had with Jack's dad way back in "Outlaws":



> CHRISTIAN SHEPARD: You know why they call Australia 'down under', don't you? Because it's as close as you can get to hell without being burned.
> 
> SAWYER [to bartender]: Why don't you leave the bottles. [to Shephard] What'd you handle, back in the States?
> 
> ...


I also recall mentions of "cerberus" in the notes section on the blacklight hatch map; Cerberus, in Greek myth, being the multiheaded dog that guards the gates of Hades to ensure that spirits of the dead could enter, but none could exit.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I don't believe for a second that it's purgatory. I think that we're supposed to think it, and suspect it, but there will be some twist at some point that will blow our minds.


...and as I said before, I don't think _we're_ supposed to suspect it. The "dead" theory is presented in such a wildly implausible way (given the information that we have) that we can't be expected to take it seriously. I think it's just the Losties who are supposed to suspect it.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Sromkie said:


> I was disappointed with this, too. For all of the talk about them taking only the good ones, they sure don't seem to have such a big problem with murder.
> 
> _Kill the man who is defenseless and tied to a tree. Don't worry, we are all good people. This will make you good like the rest of us._
> 
> But, as a whole, I very much liked the episode.


Ethan was perfectly willing to hang Charlie from a tree and Goodwin set up the other guy to be killed.
And they seemd to be ok with Michael killing Anna Lucia and Libby so I think that the Other's definition of "Good" is a little different from ours.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...and as I said before, I don't think _we're_ supposed to suspect it. The "dead" theory is presented in such a wildly implausible way (given the information that we have) that we can't be expected to take it seriously. I think it's just the Losties who are supposed to suspect it.


Biggest non-ignorable clue that the island is, indeed somewhere on this earth, in this reality, and *not* "purgatory", "hell" or some other sort of hereafter or alternate reality:

Penny managed to *LOCATE IT*, at least approximately, and then send Naomi there!

It's clearly "stealthed" somehow. We've been shown evidence that the island, or something on it disrupts not only compasses, but apparently GPS equipment as well.

Naomi indicated that she was having a hell of a time finding it, even with state of the art GPS equipment. When she found it, it "suddenly appeared" where open ocean should have been.

It's becoming more and more clear that the island's stealthy and mysterious nature are the result of advanced technologies of some sort (of a science-fiction nature, to be sure) and not the result of spiritual, or supernatural stuff.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

tewcewl said:


> I think this show dropped a major hint about dissent within the Others' ranks. Why would Richard subvert Ben in a big way by giving Locke Sawyer's dossier? Is Richard angling for Ben's job or is there really unhappiness in paradise? What did he mean by focusing on more important things than fertility issues? Or was Richard working under Ben's orders and by giving Locke the information, Ben gets to assert leadership and remain appearing strong while allowing Locke to join them.
> 
> Man, this episode is really messing with my mind. It's been a while since LOST grabbed me by the jugular and refused to let go. Not that I lost the faith. I always knew it was there, it just needed to do some setting up to get there. But now we're racing towards the end of S3, it's so much fun.


I am firmly in the camp that Richard was a part of the overall manipulation of Locke. The only person who really hates Ben is Juliet, and the only reason I believe that is because she was completely alone when she turned off the recorder and firmly stated, "I hate you." 


DUDE_NJX said:


> In a recent episode Juliette said that Kate is pregnant.


I think Juliet implied that she had confirmation of Sun's pregnancy, and needed to test the other women to see if they were pregnant too. She seriously needed to test Kate because they had manipulated her into having sex with Sawyer, so they KNEW that she could be. That was part of the whole abduction plan, to get them together.

Since Naomi was from a nearby ship, we can assume that the approximate location of the island is now known. She should have been in touch with the ship until she went down, so the ship should have the location of the island pretty well nailed down. They should be coming after her, and the Losties are possibly going to be rescued, just like Desmond suggests.

It'll never happen!


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Church AV Guy said:


> I am firmly in the camp that Richard was a part of the overall manipulation of Locke. The only person who really hates Ben is Juliet, and the only reason I believe that is because she was completely alone when she turned off the recorder and firmly stated, "I hate you."


Well, I think Richard's motivations are completely unknown at this point, and here's why:

We're starting to get a pretty clear picture of Juliet's motivations. *She wants to get off the island and get home!* That's her overriding motivation for doing anything!

However, she's torn as to how to accomplish that.

On the one hand, she holds on to hope that if she cooperates with Ben, does what he asks her to do, he'll eventually reward her by sending her home.

On the other hand, she knows what a manipulative, lying weasel Ben is and that he may never send her home.

So, the motivation is there for her to double-cross him and align herself with someone else. Such as, the Losties for instance.

It's reasonable to assume that Juliet's relationship to Ben is not unique. Other members of the "others" may have been manipulated into coming to the island in similar ways. They may be experiencing ongoing manipulation, like Juliet, as well, and being denied the right to leave also.

So, that there may be "other's" besides Juliet with no love lost between them and Ben is not an unreasonable guess.

So, Richard's comments to Locke may have been more of Ben's planned manipulation, or they may indicate Richard has issues with Ben as Juliet does. We don't really have the information to tell yet.



Church AV Guy said:


> I think Juliet implied that she had confirmation of Sun's pregnancy, and needed to test the other women to see if they were pregnant too. She seriously needed to test Kate because they had manipulated her into having sex with Sawyer, so they KNEW that she could be. That was part of the whole abduction plan, to get them together.


I agree completely with this interpretation.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

What still boggles my mind is WTF could the others really be about/trying to accomplish that they seemingly integrate/convert relatively normal people and manage to maintain their nearly unflinching loyalty.

The actual revelation of this could be a major let down, but I hope not.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

MegaHertz67 said:


> Now maybe I'm a sick puppy, but wouldn't it be easier if Locke cut daddy's head off and carry that back as proof instead of lugging the whole body halfway across the island? He looked heavy. Plus I would think that a big rotting corpse would attract too much animal attention as he moved across through the landscape.


Funny.
That's exactly what I said to my wife. I though it would be more dramatic to have Locke (Mr. afraid-to-kill-him-tied-to-a-tree) get to the Others camp and hold up the hold up the severed head.

We think alike, maybe we should hang sometime.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Richard was totally part of Ben's plan. They wanted that guy dead, and they wanted one of the losties to kill him. (No idea why, though.) It's just way too convenient that he had the file to offer like that. If he had stolen the file against Ben's wishes he would have been rushed or furtive about it, but he was very matter of fact. I have no doubt that was all part of the united pressure against Locke. Give him a "friend" who conveniently passes him information to enable him to do exactly what Ben wants done. 

In fact, I am thinking maybe they even wanted Sawyer to kill him but figured that they would have trouble directly manipulating him into doing it, but that by getting Locke involved they could make it happen.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

I find some of your lack of faith in Dharma-brand condoms disappointing.

I believe if Kate was pregnant then they would have foreshadowed it with a little subtle morning sickness but they have not.


I like how they redirected us back into questioning why the Others are on the island. As the guy told Locke, he wanted them to get back their real purpose on the island rather than getting distracted by this pregnancy stuff.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> It's becoming more and more clear that the island's stealthy and mysterious nature are the result of advanced technologies of some sort (of a science-fiction nature, to be sure) and not the result of spiritual, or supernatural stuff.


The third, and perhaps most likely, scenario is that it's the result of strange but natural local phenomena, maintained? controlled? manipulated? by the Dharma Initiative, and screwed up when the button didn't get pushed.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Jericho Dog said:


> Funny.
> That's exactly what I said to my wife. I though it would be more dramatic to have Locke (Mr. afraid-to-kill-him-tied-to-a-tree) get to the Others camp and hold up the hold up the severed head.


The horror, the horror. Where's Marlon Brando when you need him?


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

I don't think Richard and Ben are colluding. He is an important guy in recruiting so I'm sure he could come up with Sawyer's info on his own. I'm sure he was part of getting Locke's father to the island.

Also, the fact that he said something like "distractions like fertility experiments" was just a little too specific. He had no need to tell Locke that specific of a reason as to why he was helping him.

Finally, the Others see no reason to not kill for their cause. That is what they are testing Locke for- to most, Locke killing his father would be justified. I get the feeling the dissenters who don't like Ben dislike the violent turns the group may have taken (assuming they were part of Dharma at one point, which they may not have been)


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## Deffdino (Sep 21, 2005)

No doubt it is purgatory!!!! Penny and her company have spent tons and tons of $$$$ and research to finally figure a way to 'contact' the 'other' side/purgatory via the magnetic spectrum. The failsafe key incident opened the wormhole for the real world to find/contact the other side/purgatory. 

Secondly, Naomi falling from the sky represents an angel of some sort.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

If Lost's mystery turns out to have any sort of theistic solution like hell or purgatory I will be so annoyed that I might join a militant group, infiltrate J J Abram's home, and mercilessly beat him.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

GDG76 said:


> Finally, the Others see no reason to not kill for their cause. That is what they are testing Locke for- to most, Locke killing his father would be justified. I get the feeling the dissenters who don't like Ben dislike the violent turns the group may have taken (assuming they were part of Dharma at one point, which they may not have been)


But what on earth does Locke's father have to do with the Others' cause? Does anyone have a theory as to why he is a threat to them or somehow related to the island or the Others at all? Locke's father being a total ass and Locke having good reason to hate him have nothing to do with the others, that I can tell. That's why the whole storyline bugs me. It seems like they just want to get Locke/Sawyer to be a revenge murderer just to prove they are capable of doing it. What does that have to do with the Others' mission?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

spikedavis said:


> Also-did anyone else think the Pillar that Cooper was tied to is the same type of relic as the four toed statue? It seemed ancient...


YES!
(can't say more, catching up with thread so I'm not smeeking)


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## Deffdino (Sep 21, 2005)

Ruth said:


> But what on earth does Locke's father have to do with the Others' cause? Does anyone have a theory as to why he is a threat to them or somehow related to the island or the Others at all? Locke's father being a total ass and Locke having good reason to hate him have nothing to do with the others, that I can tell. That's why the whole storyline bugs me. It seems like they just want to get Locke/Sawyer to be a revenge murderer just to prove they are capable of doing it. What does that have to do with the Others' mission?


Simply another test ...if Locke is 'good' or 'bad'. The Others were standing around watching Locke contemplate killing Dad because they wanted to see the smoke monster grab him, judge him and send him where he belongs (my bet is heaven).

A la Mr. Eko....... (who went to hell)


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

Excellent episode.

- I was impressed that Locke actually shared information (the recorder) with Sawyer. It'll be interesting to see what happens with that.

- Dangit. Every week I have to change my mind about what Juliette is up to. After this episode, I believe she's doing *part* of what Ben wants but she's going to double-cross him in the end. Next week I'll probably go back to her being the 2nd most evil person on the island.

- I used to feel sorry for Kate. I don't any longer.

- I've got no guess for the Others watching Locke when he was supposed to kill his father. They seem content to watch whatever happens around them, good or bad.

- Didn't it seem like there were very few Others with Ben? I expected a bigger crowd.

I've believed for quite some time that Locke was born on the island. I'm sticking with that theory after seeing this episode. Now I'm wondering if Locke and Ben have a common history on the island. (Or they could even be brothers?) Perhaps they were the only 2 successful births on the island? Ben senses that Locke is a threat to his control and is trying to cut him down somehow.

The two big questions on my mind right now: (1) Why are the Others heading somewhere else? and (2) Why is it so important for women to give birth on the island???


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> If Lost's mystery turns out to have any sort of theistic solution like hell or purgatory I will be so annoyed that I might join a militant group, infiltrate J J Abram's home, and mercilessly beat him.


No way that will happen.
It's long been clear to those rationally following the developments that there's a sc-fi or 'natural' explanation as Rob H just said and not a spiritual one, however much 'fun' it would be to have Jack in Hell. Me, I like the sci-fi approach.

Great episode. I'm a fan of the Locke centric shows. How folks could expect a guy too squeamish to stab someone to later be able to cut off their head is beyond me. On the long ago posted themes of innocence, it looks like Sawyer and Locke have 'sinned' on the island by committing cold blooded murder. Does this mean Ol Smokey is gonna git 'em?

I'm perplexed by how the Losties could know Kate's preggers unless they assume Sawyer is so locked & loaded that one and done would do it. I guess I just answered my own question.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Ruth said:


> But what on earth does Locke's father have to do with the Others' cause? Does anyone have a theory as to why he is a threat to them or somehow related to the island or the Others at all? Locke's father being a total ass and Locke having good reason to hate him have nothing to do with the others, that I can tell. That's why the whole storyline bugs me. It seems like they just want to get Locke/Sawyer to be a revenge murderer just to prove they are capable of doing it. What does that have to do with the Others' mission?


More to the point, why go into the trouble of bringing Locke's dad to the island? There has to be a bigger scheme playing behind the scenes and I think we'll discover a lot more next week. I think Locke is so much more special than everybody realizes, save for Ben who is just realizing this now. No one on this board has yet mentioned the revelation that Ben started to heal rapidly when he was in close proximity to Locke. Maybe Locke is the Others' messiah.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Deffdino said:


> Simply another test ...if Locke is 'good' or 'bad'. The Others were standing around watching Locke contemplate killing Dad because they wanted to see the smoke monster grab him, judge him and send him where he belongs (my bet is heaven).
> 
> A la Mr. Eko.......


Bah. The whole heaven/hell judgment thing really doesn't work for me. I'll be really disappointed if that's it. And what does that have to do with the island or the fertility experiments or Dharma?

Also, are you saying that Locke killing his father in cold blood (or getting Sawyer to do it) is more likely to send him to _heaven_? So murder is good now? How could anyone possibly believe that?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ruth said:


> But what on earth does Locke's father have to do with the Others' cause? Does anyone have a theory as to why he is a threat to them or somehow related to the island or the Others at all? Locke's father being a total ass and Locke having good reason to hate him have nothing to do with the others, that I can tell. That's why the whole storyline bugs me. It seems like they just want to get Locke/Sawyer to be a revenge murderer just to prove they are capable of doing it. What does that have to do with the Others' mission?


Perhaps it relates to the reason Ben and Company need Locke.
Locke has wallowed in the past so much that he's not able to let go, especially where it concerns his father.
They are correct in that he needs to move on and their "solution" may be to have him kill his father.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> No way that will happen.
> It's long been clear to those rationally following the developments that there's a sc-fi or 'natural' explanation as Rob H just said and not a spiritual one, however much 'fun' it would be to have Jack in Hell. Me, I like the sci-fi approach.


Me too, and I am sure that is the general idea of the solution as well. I just wanted to note how annoying it would be if it were such a lame answer.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> If Lost's mystery turns out to have any sort of theistic solution like hell or purgatory I will be so annoyed that I might join a militant group, infiltrate J J Abram's home, and mercilessly beat him.


Don't blame JJ, he's not the showrunner and never has been. He did work on the pilot but has almost nothing to do with the running of the show. I don't think he's even written a single episode in quite a while.

Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse are in charge of _Lost_. Blame them. (And not coincidentally, they were the co-writers of this episode.)


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## Deffdino (Sep 21, 2005)

Ruth said:


> Bah. The whole heaven/hell judgment thing really doesn't work for me. I'll be really disappointed if that's it. And what does that have to do with the island or the fertility experiments or Dharma?
> 
> Also, are you saying that Locke killing his father in cold blood (or getting Sawyer to do it) is more likely to send him to _heaven_? So murder is good now? How could anyone possibly believe that?


Just throwing this out there. Purgatory has to be some sort of location, why not a tropical island? Maybe the fertility experiments are a ruse or another test of the others.

I meant that my bet is heaven because Locke _did not _ kill pops (directly atleast).

When is the last time there was a poll on Lost theories? I'm putting one up!!!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Deffdino said:


> Just throwing this out there. *Purgatory has to be some sort of location*, why not a tropical island?


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## Deffdino (Sep 21, 2005)

Circular logic. If you're going to make a TV show involving purgatory, you gotta have a location . Why not an island?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ruth said:


> But what on earth does Locke's father have to do with the Others' cause? Does anyone have a theory as to why he is a threat to them or somehow related to the island or the Others at all? Locke's father being a total ass and Locke having good reason to hate him have nothing to do with the others, that I can tell. That's why the whole storyline bugs me. It seems like they just want to get Locke/Sawyer to be a revenge murderer just to prove they are capable of doing it. What does that have to do with the Others' mission?


Clearly the Others think that Locke is someone very special. However, as we've seen with most of the Losties, he's got MAJOR daddy issues. Apparently the Others feel that in order for Locke to fulfill his potential, he had to overcome those issues, and therefore brought the father to the island so Locke could put his issues behind him and move forward to become whatever it is that the Others want him to become.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Meh. It's not gonna be purgatory, hell, or anything of the sort. It's some sort of time/space continuum thingy. You know, like Back to the Future.

I think that "a" flight 815 really did crash somewhere and all the bodies were found...in another time/place. Somehow, the island is in some other vortex and once you're sucked into it/onto it, you're in an alternate time/space. Time is passing differently on the island, too. I still believe that 1950's radio broadcast Hurley and Sayid heard may have really been from the 1950's...at that time, that is...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I choose to go with the notion that in order to break his character and make him less resistant to them, he had to get sawyer to kill his dad.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

philw1776 said:


> No way that will happen.
> It's long been clear to those rationally following the developments that there's a sc-fi or 'natural' explanation as Rob H just said and not a spiritual one, however much 'fun' it would be to have Jack in Hell. Me, I like the sci-fi approach.
> 
> Great episode. I'm a fan of the Locke centric shows. How folks could expect a guy too squeamish to stab someone to later be able to cut off their head is beyond me. On the long ago posted themes of innocence, it looks like Sawyer and Locke have 'sinned' on the island by committing cold blooded murder. Does this mean Ol Smokey is gonna git 'em?


Don't forget in the begging Locke was quite the hunter, killing boars. And while he may object to actually killing a person, he isn't squeamish and may actually be capable of cutting up a body.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

tewcewl said:


> More to the point, why go into the trouble of bringing Locke's dad to the island? There has to be a bigger scheme playing behind the scenes and I think we'll discover a lot more next week. I think Locke is so much more special than everybody realizes, save for Ben who is just realizing this now. No one on this board has yet mentioned the revelation that Ben started to heal rapidly when he was in close proximity to Locke. Maybe Locke is the Others' messiah.


Are we sure that Ben IS healing faster because of Locke? Maybe this is another ploy/deception to help build up and then tear down Locke to control him.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Deffdino said:


> No doubt it is purgatory!!!! Penny and her company have spent tons and tons of $$$$ and research to finally figure a way to 'contact' the 'other' side/purgatory via the magnetic spectrum. The failsafe key incident opened the wormhole for the real world to find/contact the other side/purgatory.
> 
> Secondly, Naomi falling from the sky represents an angel of some sort.


It's not Purgatory.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK, here's an incomplete theory: we know that Charlie is cursed, and Desmond is the only one who can save him. What if the reason Charlie is cursed is because he murdered someone on the island. If that's the case, maybe that's why Ben wanted Locke to kill his daddy: or Ben wanted Locke Sr. dead, and didn't want one of his own to do it for that reason. Why would Ben want Locke Sr dead? Because he's a manipulator on par with Ben, and could see through Ben's manipulations.


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## Ekims (Oct 18, 2002)

hefe said:


> It's not Purgatory.


How do we know this isn't a re-direct. I really think that at this point, the writers have wrote themselves into a hole and Purgatory is the only way out. I think maybe they got a little too smart for their own good and started to believe their own hype.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> No, but "getting samples from pregnant women, including Austen", does.


Does anybody think that Claire has been making whoopee with Charlie since Aaron was born?
Personally, I think it is more of a platonic relationship ...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Ruth said:


> IWhy were the others so insistent that John kill that guy? Did they all have to kill someone to become an other? I know Locke is easily manipulated and all, but I'm disappointed he has so little moral fiber left that he would buy into that.


I don't think Ben's plan was ever intended for Locke to kill his father. I think Ben firmly knew that Locke was not capable of killing his own father, what we saw was a carefully constructed "play" for Locke's benefit, to demonstrate to Locke that he was powerless and to humiliate him into action. What is Ben if not a master manipulator? What did Ben accomplish with his "play"? He got Locke to manipulate Sawyer into killing off his father. I'd say Ben got what he wanted ... a stronger Locke.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

As for Locke not decapitating dead daddy and carrying around the head, I think dragging around the whole body symbolizes the heavy burden that Locke still has to bear.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

getreal said:


> Does anybody think that Claire has been making whoopee with Charlie since Aaron was born?
> Personally, I think it is more of a platonic relationship ...


I don't think she has. And has it been 6 weeks since he was born, anyway?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't think it's Purgatory either, but if it were, Locke's Dad sure blew his chance, didn't he?  I think he really thought he was in hell, cause if he thought he had one more chance, he would've been conning everyone, trying to find a way out. 

If the sperm is so high test, and they've been there 80 days or something, you'd think lots of women would be PG by now. Unless there really are Dharma contraceptives. Nikki probably would have died in child birth if she wasn't buried alive in that hole.

I wonder if the Ben faction that's worrying about conception on the island is more mild mannered and civilized than whatever the other faction wants to concentrate on? Maybe they're the really scary guys.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I think the tape recorder is more manipulation by Ben - he knows Juliet hates him; he sends her on an 'undercover mission'; conveniently lets Locke know about it when he gets a report from her; lets Locke steal said report; now she is outed to the 'Losties' and has to run back to Ben.

I'm another vote that says no way on the purgatory/hell theories. The most compelling evidence against it for me is that they are presenting it as TOO obvious a solution and they are not going to reveal the ultimate who-killed-Laura-Palmer question (i.e. What is the Island) with this much show left.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> I don't think she has. And has it been 6 weeks since he was born, anyway?


Claire's also had a lot on her plate since her son's been born. Aaron's been kidnapped, then she nearly drowns, then she comes down deathly ill. Plus her would-be boyfriend is on the universe's chopping block. Not a good time to step things up a notch.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> It's becoming more and more clear that the island's stealthy and mysterious nature are the result of advanced technologies of some sort (of a science-fiction nature, to be sure) and not the result of spiritual, or supernatural stuff.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> The third, and perhaps most likely, scenario is that it's the result of strange but natural local phenomena, maintained? controlled? manipulated? by the Dharma Initiative, and screwed up when the button didn't get pushed.


I think you guys are in the ball park. My thought is that there might be an ancient alien artifact, like a spaceship or a probe, embedded in the island, not unlike the movie "Five Million Years to Earth." The Dharma Initiative originally came to the island to work on the numbers, after many years discovered the effects of whatever mystery the island itself has, alien or not, changed the mission, and has tried to harness the power. They weren't the first on the island, as evidenced by the Black Rock and the fallen four toed statue.

We know one major effect is physical regeneration. I don't think the dead come back to life, but at least the severely wounded and diseased. Women who get pregnant on the island die due to this regenerative process, because from the purely physiological perspective, the fetus is seen as a parasite, so the regeneration fails as it's trying to "heal" the mother. Women who are already pregnant before coming to the island are recognized as separate individuals.

Not everyone heals, so whatever power is in the island, there is some level of intelligence creating a selection process. The hallucinations seem to come as a part of a test. The smoke monster is certainly part of the process, but only as an appendage, not the brain.

Without any real evidence, I suspect there is yet another organization involved. I throw this out here because the others, if they are indeed part of the Dharma Initiative, sure seem confused about many of the turns of events. I call this new group the other others.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Sorry, flame away, I'm probably gonna smeek here (made it 3 pages in, will finish later).

Locke didn't kill his father in front of all those others, and Ben said "Sorry, he isn't who we thought he was.."..

..because he wouldn't *sacrifice* his father.. (Ben used that word)

So if they're not waiting for Locke, who could they be waiting for? Maybe someone who's wresting with the value of sacrifice....

(Desmond)

Having the files on only the 815 survivors, if they read through them, they might see that Locke had done the most sacrificing of the people on the plane - he gave up his kidney for a stranger.

..they just didn't know Desmond's details (even if they saw that he existed, from the Pearl hatch, as was said).

Ok, done w/smeeking. I'm guessing that wasn't a smeek. (throws a chip on the table)


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Having the files on only the 815 survivors, if they read through them, they might see that Locke had done the most sacrificing of the people on the plane - he gave up his kidney for a stranger.


I think it was more than just for a stanger. Though he didn't know him at all really, he still had an alleged connection beyond knowing someone personally.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

balboa dave said:


> ... like a spaceship or a probe, embedded in the island, not unlike the movie "Five Million Years to Earth."


Surely, you mean "Quatermass and the Pit"...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Ekims said:


> How do we know this isn't a re-direct. I really think that at this point, the writers have wrote themselves into a hole and Purgatory is the only way out. I think maybe they got a little too smart for their own good and started to believe their own hype.


Well, it's pretty common knowledge that the producers have refuted that theory from the very start, and have done so several times. If that's what it turns out to be, then they are lying, and I'll stand corrected...but I really believe they're not going that route.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

laststarfighter said:


> I believe if Kate was pregnant then they would have foreshadowed it with a little subtle morning sickness but they have not.


Morning sickness?!?! It's been what, 10 days or so since Kate and Sawyer's cage match? No morning sickness. I suppose we don't know for sure what Kate was (or wasn't) up to (or with whom) before that but they would have given a hint by now if there had been someone.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Ekims said:


> How do we know this isn't a re-direct. I really think that at this point, the writers have wrote themselves into a hole and Purgatory is the only way out. I think maybe they got a little too smart for their own good and started to believe their own hype.


Not purgatory.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> So, they may have considered that guy living in the Swan hatch to have been of little importance as well. Although they may have been aware of his presence, they may have been largely ignoring him.


If they believed the orientation tape in the Pearl hatch, they believed Desmond's task was just a meaningless test, in fact..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Ethan was perfectly willing to hang Charlie from a tree and Goodwin set up the other guy to be killed.
> And they seemd to be ok with Michael killing Anna Lucia and Libby so I think that the Other's definition of "Good" is a little different from ours.


Goodwin actually _killed_ the guy - snapped his neck.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

laststarfighter said:


> I find some of your lack of faith in Dharma-brand condoms disappointing.


| sed -e 's/some of//' -e 's/disappointing/disturbing/' -e 's/^/<james-earl-jones-voice>/' '[email protected][email protected]</james-earl-jones-voice>@'


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

getreal said:


> Does anybody think that Claire has been making whoopee with Charlie since Aaron was born?
> Personally, I think it is more of a platonic relationship ...


Right. What kind of a perverted woman would have sex with a frakin Hobbit???


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

balboa dave said:


> I think you guys are in the ball park. My thought is that there might be an ancient alien artifact, like a spaceship or a probe, embedded in the island, not unlike the movie "Five Million Years to Earth."


Not sure I buy your theory, but I LOVED that Quartermass movie years ago before SF got all special effects, CGI and mindless.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Surely, you mean "Quatermass and the Pit"...


Maybe if I was British. 

I wasn't referring to the plot, by the way, only to the premise of an ancient alien artifact. Having read and watched science fiction for far too many years, it was the earliest and most popular reference that came to mind.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> They appear to have been genuinely taken by surprise at the consequences of not pushing the button and having to turn the failsafe key.


does this pretty much mean than Ben definitely DID enter the numbers in place of Locke when the blast doors dropped? We know what would have happened had he not entered the numbers.

and if he did enter the numbers, yet still knew the red hieroglyphs would flip up, then we can assume Ben knew the consequences.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

My God, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop with the Purgatory theories! It's getting really really annoying at this point. IT'S NOT HAPPENING. So many people think that's the answer because that's how THEY would end it. The writers of LOST are much more creative than that. That's like a Junior High School writing class ending. Enough!


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> If they believed the orientation tape in the Pearl hatch, they believed Desmond's task was just a meaningless test, in fact..


Not sure if the others ever saw that tape.

If they're Dharma, they probably did. If they're "Dharma rivals", then maybe not.

But as you say, if they did, they may have thought, as Jack did, that this was simply a meaningless test. (If they thought that, this is evidence that the Others are not Dharma, since Dharma apparently understood the genuine importance of the hatch.)


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

spikedavis said:


> My God, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop with the Purgatory theories! It's getting really really annoying at this point. IT'S NOT HAPPENING. So many people think that's the answer because that's how THEY would end it. The writers of LOST are much more creative than that. That's like a Junior High School writing class ending. Enough!


LOL!

Great way to put it! :up:

Thanks! (And, in case you couldn't tell, I SO agree!!)


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm just happy that Locke has found himself another group of weirdos to try to get accepted into.


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## PotentiallyCoherent (Jul 25, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Jacob should be coming into the picture soon.


Locke has been in the picture for quite some time.


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## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

I'm shocked that no one caught this yet...

Naomi said the clouds parted and she looked down and saw land before her crash. Wasn't it night when the group heard the helicopter?!? Hard to spot an island in the dark.

Not sure what this means. I don't think Naomi is sent from the Others. But I think there is a lot more to her story.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

TiVotion said:


> Meh. It's not gonna be purgatory, hell, or anything of the sort. It's some sort of time/space continuum thingy. You know, like Back to the Future.
> 
> I think that "a" flight 815 really did crash somewhere and all the bodies were found...in another time/place. Somehow, the island is in some other vortex and once you're sucked into it/onto it, you're in an alternate time/space. Time is passing differently on the island, too. I still believe that 1950's radio broadcast Hurley and Sayid heard may have really been from the 1950's...at that time, that is...


OK.

I'll take Purgatory. The place where you can earn amnesty. However it's spelled.

Edited to add: I mean a secular humanist version of Purgatory, or at least a fuzzy one that allows either a secular or faith-based buy-in.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Fast movin' episode.

Jack and Juliette definitely didn't seem surprised that someone landed on the island - their lack of surprise was, in fact, surprising.

Why did Locke burn Sawyer's file? And I guess we can rule out the theory that maybe Locke killed the undercover cop at the pot farm, if he couldn't kill daddy.

No one has mentioned that maybe Rousseau is working with Jack and Juliette on a plan ... who knows what that crazy lady is up to.


Oh, and NOT purgatory.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

1. The "Island" has always existed, probably pre-mankind. It has (scifi/fantasy) physical characteristics beyond our understanding.

2. Encounters with the Island pre-20th century have been rare, a few wrecked ships where most died in an absolute sense (the Black Rock) and few of the characters we have seen (obviously Nathan) are pre-20th.

3. Dharma, wth incredible wealth & technology, was able to make a connection to the Island. There was some recognition of what they had stumbled upon, but the project was eventually a disaster, with much disruption to the original Island mechanisms. However, the external world support infrastructure for Dharma remains in place and this has been a whole new ballgame in terms of connection between the Island and the real world. Submarines, food drops, transportation and communication to and from the Island. "Others" (some Dharma survivors, some really old people, some recent post-Dharma arrivals) have interfaced with the Dharma infrastructure and continue in a very confused manner. What is their purpose? At the core, they do not know. They have power, all things seem possible (e.g. the fertility experiments, an existential link between the real world and the Island), but the actual opportunity (spiritual/secular-humanist.sci-fi fantasy) is redemption and few if any understand that.

4. 815 is just more of the same, been going on a long time, unusual perhaps in that there were a larger number of new arrivals than usual.

5. Island processes will continue, we will know. Beyond the run of this series and DVDs and syndicatiion. People will move on ("die") and new will arrive. The Island will continue in its mysterious purpose (which the writers/producers ultimately will not really share with us).

6. There is salvation here on the Island. Among other things. We as viewers will understand that after the last episode. The characters likely will not.

Edited to add: BTW the last shot of the last episode will be a plane breaking up and crashing over the Island.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I like the idea that the Island has supernatural characteristics, whether natural or from an extraterrestial source. Maybe the Dharma Initiative tried to solve it characteristically. Maybe The Others are a bunch of religious nuts looking for spiritual answers. Who knows? At the rate that this show answers questions and reveals details I'll have Alzheimers and be wearing a diaper by the time they let us know.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

re: the island being undectectable:

is anyone else hoping that the guy behind this whole mess is Gorilla Grodd?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok, here's my two cents..

Every time they drop hints about ir being purgatory (or about anything else for that matter), I'll pay attention and play along.. Why? Again, it's the journey. If this is one of the weeks they're focusing on everyone's unresolved issues, then that's what it's most interesting thinking about (rather than having to ignore the episode entirely if it doesn't fit a belief about what's relevant to the final story).

It's fun looking for hints etc. It's also fun exploring _many_ theories rather than just one - just because.. It's part of the ride.. If you only look at the end, you'll miss the rest and possibly be disappointed by it all since it didn't match your only acceptable theory.

As an atheist I'd normally dislike any purely religious answer (I'm not one to watch a religous _themed_ show), but biblical references all over the place could be interesting to the extent that the characters themselves believe it.. Plus, the fact that the producers have repeatedly said it ISN'T purgatory almost make it an ok ending if it IS purgatory, since we all knew it all along and should have listened to the facts staring us in the face, and the writers could say "what could we do? We had to deny it rather than rewrite our plan - we lied..  ".

So I actually might not mind a purgatory ending for that reason (and that the idea that they're dead feels far more significant, evben if it's easier writing).

Do I expect it though? HELL NO! The ending will be far cooler I think.. And I hope for something far cooler.

But I'll entertain theories on weeks where it relates to the show..

By the way, which week will we see them finding a pylon and some sleestak? 

..Jeff (who will play along.. Tom Sawyer can suffer in sub-hell this week)


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I'm going to risk smeeking here to say that a plane would not make it to the bottom of the ocean intact. If it crashed into the water, it would have broken up and certainly wouldn't be neatly lying on the bottom for robot cameras to find.


----------



## Deffdino (Sep 21, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> Claire's also had a lot on her plate since her son's been born. Aaron's been kidnapped, then she nearly drowns, then she comes down deathly ill. Plus her would-be boyfriend is on the universe's chopping block. Not a good time to step things up a notch.


Another reason for a sympathy 'f'.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> By the way, which week will we see them finding a pylon and some sleestak?


It's not a sleestak! It's the smoke monster. THINK, man!

Greg


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> As for Locke not decapitating dead daddy and carrying around the head, I think dragging around the whole body symbolizes the heavy burden that Locke still has to bear.


Not to mention that Ben specifically said Locke couldn't join them unless he had his dead father's body on his back.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Redux said:


> 1. The "Island" has always existed, probably pre-mankind. It has (scifi/fantasy) physical characteristics beyond our understanding.
> 
> 2. Encounters with the Island pre-20th century have been rare, a few wrecked ships where most died in an absolute sense (the Black Rock) and few of the characters we have seen (obviously Nathan) are pre-20th.
> 
> ...


This is generally the same as my thinking too.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I have a theory that may somewhat explain two island mysteries: Smokey and the "stealth" nature of the island (the outside world has a very, very hard time finding it).

Supposed either Dharma, or the "Others" (if they are, in fact, not one and the same) have developed a "cloaking technology". Think almost exactly like "cloaking devices" in the Star Trek universe. (A theory that's been mentioned before, but I haven't seen anyone go quite where I'm about to go with it.)

Now, suppose that this cloaking technology can make an object 100% invisible as long as the object is stationary (or, perhaps, moving below a certain speed).

The entire island is "cloaked". Since it is essentially stationary, it is 100% invisible, at least from a certain distance. So, ships passing out at sea can't see it and it can't be seen from aircraft at normal altitudes. Perhaps there is a side effect that makes it very difficult to navigate from the inside of the "cloaking bubble" to the outside. This is why they couldn't get away on the raft and Desmond could not get away on his sail boat.

Now, on to Smokey:

Smokey makes loud mechanical noises. Metal grinding and clanking (rollercoaster going up the first hill) etc.

Theory: Smokey is a large robotic device of some sort. It rolls on wheels or walks on mechanical legs, or both. Perhaps it can fly as well, perhaps not. Perhaps it's simply extremely tall. (Think the "walkers" from the Star Wars universe or the "Tripod Machines" from War of the Worlds.)

Smokey is cloaked. But the cloaking technology can not make a moving object 100% invisible. The best it can do when an object moves is make it look like a whispy, fluttering, indistinct grey/black mass. Ahem: like *SMOKE!*

This scenario might explain why Smokey could not "fly over" the others' sonic fence.

Just a thought.


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

okay, here's a question:

at the very end as Locke hoists his dead dad over his back and music starts to play... the scene sorta jumped for a second which I thought was a glitch in the broadcast. then after that I heard a voice over the music utter one undiscernable word. 

i'm guessing it was an error in the broadcast but i'm just wondering if anyone else caught it. 

i'm on Comcast in Philadelphia by the way


----------



## ChrisNJ (Mar 7, 2007)

chavez said:


> okay, here's a question:
> 
> at the very end as Locke hoists his dead dad over his back and music starts to play... the scene sorta jumped for a second which I thought was a glitch in the broadcast. then after that I heard a voice over the music utter one undiscernable word.
> 
> ...


Same here, i caught it and skipped back to relisten. Since it didn't really fit in we chalked it up as a broadcast glitch as well.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Here's a question: has anyone on the island gotten away with murder? Godwin murdered a tailie, and got offed by Ana Lucia. Ana Lucia also killed Shannon. Ana Lucia and Libby were killed by Michael, who is now off the island (did he make it back? I doubt it.) Ethan killed, and was killed by Charlie. Charlie is now being stalked by death (according to Desmond.) There is some serious karma going on here, IMHO. Now Sawyer killed Locke Sr. I expect some karmic payback here.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Would you consider sun shooting trixie (forgot her lost name) to be murder?


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Sun shot Colleen.

Juliet shot Pickett.

Sawyer shot an unnamed Other when Michael was leading them into the trap


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

In case anyone cares, here's a list of everyone who has been killed on the Island


Ana-Lucia Cortez - Killed by Michael (Two for the Road)
Anthony Cooper - Killed by Sawyer (The Brig)
Arzt - Blew himself up (Exodus, Part 2)
Bea Klugh - Killed by Mikhail (At her request) (Enter 77)
Boone Carlyle - Killed when the plane he was in fell (Do No Harm). Locke is partially to blame.
Charlie Pace - "Killed" by Ethan. (All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues) He got better.
Colleen Pickett - Killed by Sun (The Glass Ballerina)
Danny Pickett - Killed by Juliet (Not in Portland)
Edward Mars (The Marshal) - Mercy killed by Sawyer and Jack (Tabula Rasa)
Eko - Killed by Smokey the Monster (The Cost of Living)
Ethan Rom - Killed by Charlie (Homecoming)
Gary Troup - Sucked into the jet engine (Pilot, Part 1)
Goodwin - Killed by Ana-Lucia (The Other 48 Days)
Joanna - Drowned (White Rabbit)
Kelvin - Killed by Desmond (Live Together, Die Alone)
Libby - Killed by Michael (Two for the Road)
Mikhail - "Killed" by Locke (Par Avion). He got better.
Nathan - Killed by Goodwin (The Other 48 Days)
Nikki - Killed by greed, stupidity and pointlessness (Expose)
Paulo - Killed by greed, stupidity and pointlessness (Expose)
Scott - Killed by Ethan (Homecoming)
Shannon Rutherford - Killed by Ana-Lucia
The Pilot - Killed by Smokey the Monster (Pilot, Part 1)
Unnamed Other 1 - Killed by Ana-Lucia (The Other 48 Days)
Unnamed Other 2 - Killed by Eko (The Other 48 Days)
Unnamed Other 3 - Killed by Eko (The Other 48 Days)
Unnamed Other 4 - Killed by Sawyer (when Michael was leading them into the trap) (Live Together, Die Alone)


Survivors killed by Survivors - 3 (5 counting Boone and the Marshall, 7 if you count Nikki and Paulo)
Survivors killed by Others - 2 (3 counting Charlie)
Survivors killed by Smokey - 2
Others killed by Survivors - 7 (8 counting Mikhail)
Others killed by Others - 2
Non-Other others killed by Survivors - 1
Non-Other others killed by Non-Other others - 1
Blown up - 1
Drowned - 1
Sucked into jet engine - 1


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

tanstaafl said:


> Artz - Blew himself up (Exodus, Part 2)


For the record, his name was ARZT -- not Artz.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

getreal said:


> For the record, his name was ARZT -- not Artz.


Fixed


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> I have a theory that may somewhat explain two island mysteries: Smokey and the "stealth" nature of the island (the outside world has a very, very hard time finding it).


As far as figuring out what would make for a cool story, I still find things like "the island is cloaked" not quite as interesting as they could make it..

My guess is it's more like what they had in Land of the Lost, where a window or portal existed somewhere on earth that when you went through it, you went "there" - it almost doesn't matter if "there" is some other location (an island on another planet? an island elsewhere on earth?) or some other time (the island doesn't exist there now, but it did thousands of years ago, or in the future, and that's where the portal leads).

Naomi might even be an homage to the episode of Land of the Lost where a parachuter was parachuting and happened to fall through an open gateway into the land of the lost (whereas Marshall, Will, and Holly, on their routine expedition, had met the greatest earthquake ever known, and fell into a gateway somewhere high on the rapids).

That'd explain why Ben, in trying to keep his word, would tell Michael/Walt about a very specific heading to take.. if they went any other direction, they'd just wrap around the snowglobe self-enclosed universe (like Desmond did) and come back to where they started (yet another thing we saw in Land of the Lost.. Marshall stood on a mountain, looked through his binoculars, and saw himself standing on a far away mountain, looking away with binoculars)...

But if Michael/Walt took the particular heading he mentioned, maybe that aimed right for the small portal to Earth/ourtime/reality/whatever, and he'd get out (otherwise they'd be back at the island like Desmond was).

Maybe the sub used to ride through the same type of portal, because they found one underwater?

That seems to fit in with the whole "I looked down and saw an island, where there was supposed to be water" (in the dark of night) thing, and it also fits in with "did you SEE a Helicopter?".

Maybe the plane specifically aimed for one of those portals?

Ok, here's even another Land of the Lost reference.. (I guess I'll spoilerize it in case anyone really wants to go buy the DVDs and watch the show.. spoiler tags are only spoilerizing Land of the Lost stuff, nothing about our show Lost):


Spoiler



at one point (the end of the first season maybe?) Enik opened up a door for them, a gateway back to earth. I barely remember but I think they saw (in the door) themselves _entering_ the land of the lost, and then they went through the door, sending themselves home and letting the other versions of themselves enter.. The camera followed the ones entering, and showed the same scene from the first episode, having the entire thing (series? season?) be a loop.

Maybe something similar will happen here? It's not like they can fly the plane through the gate again, but maybe something happens that sends them all into the plane just before it comes to the island again or something, and that time the plane doesn't enter the portal but instead sinks in the ocean, "intact"?



Anyway, I like and appreciate the similarities to the show, whether they're intentional or not (but they can't have not seen the original.. I mean, they had us thinking there were dinosaurs in the pilot, and the title is Lost).

One last thought - maybe some of the portals move (or can be controlled), and that's why they could pick up that old music station just once, and not after that?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

gchance said:


> It's not a sleestak! It's the smoke monster. THINK, man!
> 
> Greg


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK, my karma theory has been shot full of holes.


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> Fixed


And "unnamed" has only one "m."


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

tanstaafl said:


> Fixed


Interesting tally.

Then there were the pregnant Others who died in their second trimester. I don't remember exactly, but didn't Juliet say there were something like 9 women who died? So that would go under people killed by the Island ...


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Redux said:


> 6. There is salvation here on the Island. Among other things. We as viewers will understand that after the last episode. The characters likely will not.


 I love this idea, that in the end we will be let in on the secret, but the characters won't.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

getreal said:


> Does anybody think that Claire has been making whoopee with Charlie since Aaron was born?
> Personally, I think it is more of a platonic relationship ...


I agree. But I think Charlie rubs one out thinking about her every time he's alone.


----------



## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

TiVotion said:


> Meh. It's not gonna be purgatory, hell, or anything of the sort. It's some sort of time/space continuum thingy. You know, like Back to the Future.
> 
> I think that "a" flight 815 really did crash somewhere and all the bodies were found...in another time/place. Somehow, the island is in some other vortex and once you're sucked into it/onto it, you're in an alternate time/space. Time is passing differently on the island, too. I still believe that 1950's radio broadcast Hurley and Sayid heard may have really been from the 1950's...at that time, that is...


I agree. I believe that there is some kind of time loop going on. How it works, I haven't the slightest idea.

- Desmond (because of whatever happened when he turned the key) is able to remember bits of the past. The lady at the jewelry store told him he always picks the one ring.

- The song on the radio WAS from the 50's.

- The distress signal heard on the radio by Sayid back in Season 1 was from 16 years ago. (I believe they said it had been transmitting for 16 years...)

- Flight 815 may have very well crashed in another time. (I originally guessed that Dharma staged the crash but I like your theory better.) IIRC, the plane crashed because of Desmond being late to enter the numbers. Perhaps that anamoly allowed for the loop to be altered.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> In case anyone cares, here's a list of everyone who has been killed on the Island
> 
> ...
> 
> Scott - Killed by Ethan (Homecoming)


I could have sworn that was Steve.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

durl said:


> - The distress signal heard on the radio by Sayid back in Season 1 was from 16 years ago. (I believe they said it had been transmitting for 16 years...)


No, that was present-day. Rousseau started it up 16 years ago, and it's been on a loop ever since. They were able to calculate the number of repetitions some how, and it matched perfectly to how long ago Rousseau later said she had started it. So clearly no time travel/warping/monkey business there.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I've never seen Land of the Lost--is it worth watching?


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I've never seen Land of the Lost--is it worth watching?


Sure. If you're 10 and the year is 1976.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks--I thought maybe it was that kind of thing.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

durl said:


> - The song on the radio WAS from the 50's.


Actually, the song has a purpose. It's a Glenn Miller tune, and in 1944 Glenn Miller got on an airplane and just ... disappeared.

Freaky, dude.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> I could have sworn that was Steve.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> Sure. If you're 10 and the year is 1976.


Dude, forget being 10, Land of the Lost kicks BUTT!









Greg


----------



## matt1288 (May 5, 2007)

A few things which has me confused, I thought that the numbers the hatch which blew up. Was a main place to protect the island with a magnetic field, in season 2 finale. We see the hatch blow up then the guys in the plane can finally see the island. I think since the hatch exploded how come the helicopter finally located the island? or they used coordinates from what Naomi said. 

If they still can't locate the island , that means there must be some other source with the magnetic field.

Since Naomi hasnt given any information back to desmonds GF, maybe she will send more people to the island? But I have a thought that she may just be an other. And why the hell was she speaking in other languages?


----------



## vttommyd (Aug 1, 2004)

Does anyone think that maybe Sayid & co. were setting Kate up, knowing that she would run over and tell Jack? Perhaps they could move Naomi in between?


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> I've never seen Land of the Lost--is it worth watching?


 Yes and yes!!!


----------



## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

tewcewl said:


> Why would Richard subvert Ben in a big way by giving Locke Sawyer's dossier? Is Richard angling for Ben's job or is there really unhappiness in paradise?


I think Richard and Ben knew exactly what they were doing in getting Locke on board with them. I think using Sawyer was their Plan B...they just needed to get the job done.


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> If Lost's mystery turns out to have any sort of theistic solution like hell or purgatory I will be so annoyed that I might join a militant group, infiltrate J J Abram's home, and mercilessly beat him.


Series Finale: It was all a dreeeeeeaaaaaaaam. Closeup of an eye. Zoom out to see the eye belongs to Bob Newhart.

Credits.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

matt1288 said:


> A few things which has me confused, I thought that the numbers the hatch which blew up. Was a main place to protect the island with a magnetic field, in season 2 finale.


If I get what you're saying, that's a good point. We were led to believe that Desmond not entering the numbers was what brought down 815, and that the magnetic thing was fixed now by him turning that key. So why did the helicopter crash, why is it still impossible get on and off the island, and why is it still invisible? Unless the numbers didn't have anything to do with the crash, but didn't we track it back to the exact time Desmond was late in entering them?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I'll say it again - I think in some later episode we'll see some other flying vehicle brought down, and we'll see the black smoke swoosh up and slam into it, bringing it down..

Maybe Desmond turning the failsafe key screwed up the plane's guidance system, bringing it closer, and then the black smoke shot into action in its job as a security system, bringing down the plane. With the helicopter, nothing like a Desmond-failsafe-key was necessary to bring it close - the helicopter was TRYING to get close - and then the black smoke whoosed up to take it out.

Maybe as 815 fell down in pieces, the black smoke kept attacking the tail section as it fell, seeing it as still being an "intruder" since it was in the air.










Can't find a current copy of the animated gif of the smoke hitting the tail section in The Other 48 Days, which is the real image I wanted to use.. I may have a copy on my laptop..


----------



## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

i have to agree with others that said that everything done was a planned manipulation to get locke to kill his father and that locke knows this.

i also agree that ben purposedly let locke know their plans to kidnap the pregnant women, let him see the recorder, and let him know that juliett was a mole. also locke knows that ben did this on purpose.

how ben's purposes are served by juliette being exposed, i'm not sure. but there must be a good reason.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I've read this whole thread, and this is the only post I didn't understand.



jkeegan said:


> | sed -e 's/some of//' -e 's/disappointing/disturbing/' -e 's/^/<james-earl-jones-voice>/' '[email protected][email protected]</james-earl-jones-voice>@'


Is this "internet geek code" for something?


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

chavez said:


> okay, here's a question:
> 
> at the very end as Locke hoists his dead dad over his back and music starts to play... the scene sorta jumped for a second which I thought was a glitch in the broadcast. then after that I heard a voice over the music utter one undiscernable word.
> 
> ...


The only thing I heard was Lockes' grunt as he hoisted the body over his shoulder.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

steve614 said:


> I've read this whole thread, and this is the only post I didn't understand.
> 
> Is this "internet geek code" for something?


Yes.

It's a Unix command that in this case substitutes Word-A with Word-B for the quoted text, and really, you're not missing anything by not understanding it. (Sorry JKeegan!)


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

renov said:


> Wow, that was a great episode. I am actually from Jasper, Alabama. Nice to see the hometown get a mention.


Yeah, funny. My lake property is just North of Jasper, Al. If you want to buy anything it's off to Jasper you go.

The best part about Jasper is that they are a 'wet' town in the middle of a bunch of 'dry' counties. :up:


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Charon2 said:


> I am going to guess she is going to get her daughter back in a most magnificent way.


I hope so... Alex is pretty cute.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Yes.
> 
> It's a Unix command that in this case substitutes Word-A with Word-B for the quoted text, and really, you're not missing anything by not understanding it. (Sorry JKeegan!)


Well, it's geek squared: using a unix command to correct someone's badly paraphrased Star Wars quote.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Charon2 said:


> I am going to guess she is going to get her daughter back in a most magnificent way.
> Agreed, after a slowish start this season, the 2nd half has been delivering like crazy with just amazing episode after amazing episode.


Wasn't Danielle already using dynamite for some of her traps? Maybe she was getting a refill.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

A little odd then, for Locke to have to tell her where the dynamite was. And to mention to be careful with it. You'd think Danielle would already know the location, and might have "heard" Arzt in the second.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Rousseau knew where the dynamite was. After all, it was her who told the lostaways where it was in the first place.

I think it was a case of she enters the Black Rock, not expecting to encounter anyone there. and finds Locke sitting in front of a locked door that someone is pounding on from the inside. She's probably thinking "WTF?" Locke points out where the dynamite is as a way of telling her to move on, nothing to see here.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

tanstaafl said:


> Rousseau knew where the dynamite was. After all, it was her who told the lostaways where it was in the first place.
> 
> I think it was a case of she enters the Black Rock, not expecting to encounter anyone there. and finds Locke sitting in front of a locked door that someone is pounding on from the inside. She's probably thinking "WTF?" Locke points out where the dynamite is as a way of telling her to move on, nothing to see here.


+1

Exactly my thinking. She came in like she knew exactly what she wanted, but Locke being there threw her for a loop.


----------



## amory (Jan 24, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> Rousseau knew where the dynamite was. After all, it was her who told the lostaways where it was in the first place.
> 
> I think it was a case of she enters the Black Rock, not expecting to encounter anyone there. and finds Locke sitting in front of a locked door that someone is pounding on from the inside. She's probably thinking "WTF?" Locke points out where the dynamite is as a way of telling her to move on, nothing to see here.


All makes sense, except she would have heard Sawyer screaming from a long ways off before she ever got close to that boat. She went in knowing something was up. (Not that I think it really matters much . . .).


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

wprager said:


> Well, it's geek squared: using a unix command to correct someone's badly paraphrased Star Wars quote.


----------



## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Smokey makes loud mechanical noises. Metal grinding and clanking (rollercoaster going up the first hill) etc.
> 
> Theory: Smokey is a large robotic device of some sort. It rolls on wheels or walks on mechanical legs, or both. Perhaps it can fly as well, perhaps not. Perhaps it's simply extremely tall. (Think the "walkers" from the Star Wars universe or the "Tripod Machines" from War of the Worlds.)
> 
> ...


Everytime I see the Smoke Monster I'm reminded and think of the nanoswarm from Chricton's "Prey."


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

dslunceford said:


> Everytime I see the Smoke Monster I'm reminded and think of the nanoswarm from Chricton's "Prey."


TPTB have denied the nanoswarm theory in the past. OTOH, they have also said that everything on the island is explainable through "pseudoscience", which they define as something like you would find in a Michael Crichton novel. (They specifically reference _Jurassic Park_ and _Timeline_.)


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

amory said:


> All makes sense, except she would have heard Sawyer screaming from a long ways off before she ever got close to that boat. She went in knowing something was up. (Not that I think it really matters much . . .).


I thought that when Locke and Sawyer entered the boat, Sawyer didn't hear Locke's dad until they were in the inner room, even though Sawyer's dad was making a lot of noise (albeit muffled). So perhaps the room Sawyer's dad was in was fairly soundproof.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> I thought that when Locke and Sawyer entered the boat, Sawyer didn't hear Locke's dad until they were in the inner room, even though Sawyer's dad was making a lot of noise (albeit muffled). So perhaps the room Sawyer's dad was in was fairly soundproof.


Locke even said to his dad, "Quit screaming, no one can hear you" or something like that. This was before he went and got James.


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

tanstaafl said:


> TPTB have denied the nanoswarm theory in the past. OTOH, they have also said that everything on the island is explainable through "pseudoscience", which they define as something like you would find in a Michael Crichton novel. (They specifically reference _Jurassic Park_ and _Timeline_.)


Is there a blog (_not a podcast_) that TPTB update on a regular basis where quotes and other related information are stored. I'd listen to the podcast but I have about 10 hours a day of new podcasts and one more would just add to my to-do list.


----------



## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Not purgatory.


And Chloe is not Lois.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> Is there a blog (_not a podcast_) that TPTB update on a regular basis where quotes and other related information are stored. I'd listen to the podcast but I have about 10 hours a day of new podcasts and one more would just add to my to-do list.


Well, it's not a blog, but there are transcripts of the podcasts at LostPedia.com.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Portal:Official_'Lost'_Podcast


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

wprager said:


> Wasn't Danielle already using dynamite for some of her traps? Maybe she was getting a refill.


I suspect that she is going to make a hole in the sonic fence that the other have. Some of those concrete pylons are going to come down. Knowing her, there might be a lot of things on her list. They took her child, and she nurses a grudge for a long time. They have it coming.

Locke wants island secrets, and this is his way of leveraging them out of Ben.

Jack and Juliet have a personal agenda of their own, aside from Ben and everyone else. I wonder how it will play out?

Considering how many people have died, and how much "stuff" has happened, I wonder if the others think that "messing" with the plane crash survivors was really worth it? What have they really gained?

With the announcement that there are going to be three more seasons of 16 episodes each, every episode from now on will be about 1/50th of the remaining story. Of course, ratings could change that plan in a heartbeat. I think moving Lost to the 10PM-11PM timeslot was a mistake (ratings-wise).


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Mike20878 said:


> madscientist said:
> 
> 
> > Not purgatory.
> ...


 ... ???

Sorry, I don't get it


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

madscientist said:


> ... ???
> 
> Sorry, I don't get it


I think it's a Smallville reference. I may be mistaken though.


----------



## mark1278 (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree. I think that moving to ten was a mistake. I still love this show even though a lot of people seem to be criticising it. 

I'm hoping that we learn more about Dharma in the season finale. Also, I really want to find out what happened to Michael and Walt. Even though the characters irritated me a bit towards the end, I still am curious as to where they are.

Jack has been really pompous lately and I hope that either becomes more humble or dies.
I'm also hoping that we can see Rose and Bernard soon. 

Also, I think that some kind of time/space theory could be possible, but I hope that it's not the whole basis of the show.


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

mark1278 said:


> I'm hoping that we learn more about Dharma in the season finale. Also, I really want to find out what happened to Michael and Walt. Even though the characters irritated me a bit towards the end, I still am curious as to where they are.
> 
> Jack has been really pompous lately and I hope that either becomes more humble or dies.
> I'm also hoping that we can see Rose and Bernard soon.





Spoiler



We are supposed to learn a lot about Dharma tonight.

Walt is supposed to appear in the season finale.

The season finale is going to be a Jack flashback and we are also supposed to discover a big shocker about Jack in it.

Rose and Bernard will return before the end of the season.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Spoiler



In the Season Finale, is Walt being played by Jonathan Winters?



Greg


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Nanu, Nanu.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

tewcewl said:


> I think it's a Smallville reference. I may be mistaken though.


 :up:

Sorry, couldn't resist... long-running gag in the Smallville threads.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Wouldn't you be scared and apologetic if you thought you were in hell? Maybe not.


Personally I would probably be, but I think Locke's dad might be at a point where he's thinking, I'm in hell now, it's not like things are going to get worse, so I might as well let loose with all the mean and contemptuous things I've always wanted to say but couldn't because I was too busy conning people.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Mike20878 said:


> :up:
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist... long-running gag in the Smallville threads.


Ah. I've never watched Smallville. Otherwise I'm sure it would have been hilarious


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Just rewatched this episode, and this popped out. I missed it the first time, and no one else has mentioned it 

When Sawyer was confronting Locke's dad in the brig, the dad repeated Charlie's line from the very beginning of the series: "...then where are we?"

Just one of those nice writing touches I find enjoyable.


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## scotthemme (Mar 8, 2005)

mitchb2 said:


> Series Finale: It was all a dreeeeeeaaaaaaaam. Closeup of an eye. Zoom out to see the eye belongs to Bob Newhart.
> 
> Credits.


That's funny.


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