# Roamio S5 TiVo reviews and facts



## bradleys

Cnet is first

http://news.yahoo.com/video/tivos-latest-dvr-goes-whole-153646182-cbs.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/tivo-roamio-pro/4505-6463_7-35826606.html

Engadget

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/20/...utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget

All thing D

http://allthingsd.com/20130819/tivo-unveils-next-gen-roamio-dvrs-out-of-home-streaming-coming-soon/

Gizmodo

http://gizmodo.com/tivo-roamio-lightning-review-your-one-stop-entertainme-1122785245

The Verge

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/20/4638390/tivo-roamio-pro-review
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/20/4638806/tivo-announces-roamio-roamio-plus-roamio-pro-dvr

- Very fast UI
- HTML 5 app platform
- wifi capable
- stream outside the home network (coming this fall)
- RF remote
- both Pro and Plus have built-in Stream
- DIAL Support
- Remote Finder
- Netflix, it takes you directly to the show rather than to the Netflix 
search
- HTML5 App Store coming


----------



## innocentfreak

Also as Zatz listed has What to Watch now built in like the iPad has.

Engadget Review.



> TiVo's new DVRs are the company's best yet


Multichannel

TechCrunch

The Verge Nilay seems to like it and he hated the Premiere. Price seems to be his big complaint.



> Irritatingly, TiVo still hasn't converted the entire interface to HD - there are still old-style SD screens throughout the settings menu, which I've been complaining about for at least three years. Why can't anyone at TiVo just spend a weekend fixing this? Denney laughs at me. "I have that conversation with the engineering team all the time," he says. "It truly is a matter of prioritization." Note to TiVo: this needs to be a priority.


 Wonder if he will be cut off like Dave was


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Android-Stream support also still coming.


----------



## innocentfreak

https://tivo.com/shop/roamio

TiVo Roamio page is live. Some of this we know.

Can't sign in though yet, or find an upgrade offer page.

TiVo Roamio - 4 tuner requires Coax/bridge adapter. Hopefully that means Moca but like the Mini you can't use it as a bridge.

Per Engadget TiVo Roamio doesn't have Moca and as predicted can't use Antenna and Qam.


> At the other end of the price range is the standard Roamio for $199, which only has four ATSC tuners, a 500GB hard drive and no built-in Stream functionality or MoCA. None of the new models support analog cable and none support both CableCARD and ATSC


Also no HDMI-CEC so no controlling Roamio from the Xbox One without IR.

Remote is larger than the Slide with no backlight, but smaller than the Peanut. Back button is used for the apps like Netflix and Youtube.

Broadcom BCM7241 per Engadget Review.

WiFi N built in.

DIAL built in which is the standard used by Chromecast.

Pro and Plus - Stream built in

TiVo Mini fans will be happy to know that you can now dynamically assign a tuner to a Mini for live TV...per Engadget.

None of them come with ethernet cables or HDMI cables.

Coming Soon:
We're told there's a new, three-column My Shows view coming this fall...Per Engadget.


----------



## MeInDallas

I wonder how many people are diggin out their credit cards now


----------



## moyekj

Tried to buy a Romio Plus via tivo.com, but even after logging in it shows lifetime price of $500 instead of $400. I have 3 other lifetime units - they don't qualify me for MSD anymore?


----------



## innocentfreak

moyekj said:


> Tried to buy a Romio Plus via tivo.com, but even after logging in it shows lifetime price of $500 instead of $400. I have 3 other lifetime units - they don't qualify me for MSD anymore?


No it says at the bottom they do. It looks like it is still going up. I tried to sign in and it showed me in, but crashed when I clicked My Account.

Not going to wait to see if any upgrade offer?


----------



## MeInDallas

Yep the base model has an external power supply and cable card goes into the bottom?


----------



## bradleys

Reviews are VERY Positive!


----------



## rothsss

Has anybody managed to order lifetime for less than $499.99?


----------



## wco81

Will it have external drive support?

That would make getting the Plus now and adding an external drive, which would go for a lot less than the $200 difference between the Plus and the Pro.


----------



## innocentfreak

wco81 said:


> Will it have external drive support?
> 
> That would make getting the Plus now and adding an external drive, which would go for a lot less than the $200 difference between the Plus and the Pro.


It has Esata but no word on which drives are supported. I would love to see something like Synology supported, but not as a striped drive.


----------



## moyekj

innocentfreak said:


> No it says at the bottom they do. It looks like it is still going up. I tried to sign in and it showed me in, but crashed when I clicked My Account.
> 
> Not going to wait to see if any upgrade offer?


 As long as I can get MSD to make it $800 total I'm in. But currently even though I can login it's not applying MSD so no sale until that is fixed.


----------



## George Cifranci

WOW! I just happened to go to www.tivo.com to setup a recording on my Series 3 and was surprised to see the TiVo Roamio info.


----------



## MeInDallas

Yes look in the FAQ and the same Western Digital expander can be used for an additional 1TB of space. Also I noticed its 100% HD menus now, no more SD menus.


----------



## innocentfreak

Seeing the Roamio intro video...it really seems they needed a 2TB model. It jumps from 75 hours to 150 to 450.


----------



## bradleys

innocentfreak said:


> Seeing the Roamio intro video...it really seems they needed a 2TB model. It jumps from 75 hours to 150 to 450.


We just have to wait for the "community" to develop a drive upgrade procedure!


----------



## MeInDallas

What are the chances that the same JMFS works for this?


----------



## innocentfreak

MeInDallas said:


> What are the chances that the same JMFS works for this?


Won't know until someone tries. We don't know what if anything was changed to support a 3TB drive.


----------



## bradleys

MeInDallas said:


> What are the chances that the same JMFS works for this?


Since they have broken the 2 TB barrier, I suspect it will need to be changed. Getting away from the Partition size / cluster limitations of the NTFS architecture just had to change the process - IMHO.


----------



## MeInDallas

Ah OK thanks. I dont know that much about it, just how to do it


----------



## aaronwt

Any word on when it will show up in retail stores?


----------



## TiVoMargret

If you believe your existing TiVo boxes should qualify you to receive a Multi-Service Discount for Roamio, and it isn't appearing when you login to tivo.com, please email me ([email protected]) so we can look into it.


----------



## tivogurl

WeaKnees isn't showing any Roamios. It will be interesting to see if they significantly undercut TiVo's price for the Pro.


----------



## George Cifranci

TiVoMargret said:


> If you believe your existing TiVo boxes should qualify you to receive a Multi-Service Discount for Roamio, and it isn't appearing when you login to tivo.com, please email me ([email protected]) so we can look into it.


Thanks Margret. At the moment I am not able to sign in to TiVo.com. I can enter my login and password, but I can't press the Sign In button on this page...

https://www.tivo.com/shop/mma-login


----------



## TiVoMargret

George Cifranci said:


> Thanks Margret. At the moment I am not able to sign in to TiVo.com. I can enter my login and password, but I can't press the Sign In button on this page...
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/mma-login


The team is currently addressing the login issue.


----------



## bradleys

The Cast button on the Netflix and YouTube apps will also work with TiVo. Just as with Google's $35 Chromecast dongle, anyone with the latest YouTube or Netflix apps can throw video from a mobile device to a TV through the Roamio or an updated Mini.


----------



## MeInDallas

I'm so glad this is Monday, people should have them this week


----------



## Philmatic

External power supply on the OTA model.


----------



## aaronwt

No THX certification?

I'm able to log into my account now, but it is also still showing the $499 for lifetime after I add the Roamio to my cart.


----------



## TiVoMargret

TiVoMargret said:


> The team is currently addressing the login issue.


I've been told the login issue has been resolved. Please give it another try.

(Thanks for your patience!)

--Margret


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> No THX certification?
> 
> I'm able to log into my account now, but it is also still showing the $499 for lifetime after I add the Roamio to my cart.


Same here. It is also saying a max of 5 MSD which I don't remember that before. It was updated 8/20 but not sure what was changed.

I am surprised there is no upgrade offer to transfer lifetime. We have seen one every new series that gets released.


----------



## bradleys

TiVoMargret said:


> If you believe your existing TiVo boxes should qualify you to receive a Multi-Service Discount for Roamio, and it isn't appearing when you login to tivo.com, please email me ([email protected]) so we can look into it.


Logged in fine and I do see the multi-service discount on my order...


----------



## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> Same here. It is also saying a max of 5 MSD which I don't remember that before.
> 
> I am surprised there is no upgrade offer to transfer lifetime. We have seen one every new series that gets released.


I hope they don't include the TiVo Mini in the number.


----------



## Icarus

TiVoMargret said:


> I've been told the login issue has been resolved. Please give it another try.
> 
> (Thanks for your patience!)
> 
> --Margret


Not for me it isn't and not showing any type of MSD. I can only login by going to My Account first.


----------



## bradolson

I see the MSD on the buy/configure page but when I add it to the cart, it shows the full price with no discount.

Edit: now it's not showing at all again. They must be working on things.


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> I hope they don't include the TiVo Mini in the number.


Nope seems to be DVRs only.



> it applies to a maximum number of 5 TiVo DVRs


Maybe that is why mine isn't showing up. I gave the HDs to my parents but left them on my account for easier remote scheduling and so I didn't have to have them call to transfer them.

Oh well I will look into it later since I am not buying yet. I need to figure out what I am doing with the units I have.


----------



## bmetz

I was able to apply the MSD discount just now and placed my order. It wasn't working until just now.


----------



## dswallow

Well, for a brief moment it showed me the MSD lifetime price, so I added a Pro plus 3yr warranty and lifetime to my cart and when I pressed checkout my cart then contained the full price lifetime service instead of the MSD price. Now I haven't seen the MSD price appear at all again. Oh well, don't want it showing up while I'm away anyway, so I wouldn't actually order it for a couple weeks, and maybe the order page will work properly by then. 

I was wondering if they'd be shipping right away... didn't see mention if there was a future release data or if they're shipping now.


----------



## aaronwt

bmetz said:


> I was able to apply the MSD discount just now and placed my order. It wasn't working until just now.


Yes, Lifetime is showing up as $399 for me now too. I wish I could order one now though. I need to wait until it shows up at BestBuy.

So I hope TiVo announces soon when the Roamio will be showing up at their retail partners.


----------



## TiVoMargret

Send me email (with your account info) if you still aren't seeing a Multi-Service Discount, and you believe your account should qualify.


----------



## dswallow

Well, I saw MSD lifetime pricing again after refreshing the page, but the same thing happened after adding it to my cart.


----------



## lessd

bradolson said:


> I see the MSD on the buy/configure page but when I add it to the cart, it shows the full price with no discount.
> 
> Edit: now it's not showing at all again. They must be working on things.


Same with me and I have 4 TiVos and one Mini so I should get the MSD

Will call in TiVo.


----------



## Balzer

TiVoMargret said:


> If you believe your existing TiVo boxes should qualify you to receive a Multi-Service Discount for Roamio, and it isn't appearing when you login to tivo.com, please email me ([email protected]) so we can look into it.


Ok, when I select the Roamio (standard since I'm a cord cutter), it gives the option for lifetime service as $399.99 and monthly as $12.99 However, when I pick lifetime and continue, and get to the Order Summary page, it shows as $499.99 again.

It's fine for now because I'm just "testing" until I get another paycheck... so hopefully that will be resolved in a week or so. 

I'm so excited!!!


----------



## sirfergy

Is anyone able to order? I just keep getting an empty cart details page.


----------



## sirfergy

Looks like they reset their servers, everything is all good now.


----------



## Troy J B

The order summary page was not showing the MSD. Looking at the order history now, shows the MSD is in effect.


----------



## Philmatic

Yeah, it's showing $12.99 + $399 now for Monthly/Lifetime MSD.


----------



## MeInDallas

The Best Buy website now shows the Roamio but it says out of stock, so maybe the truck arrives soon.


----------



## rothsss

sirfergy said:


> Is anyone able to order? I just keep getting an empty cart details page.


My order just went through. The order summary does not show the multi-box discount. Doug Bieter, VP, Sales, assured me that this is a web-only problem and that the actual billing will be correct.


----------



## rothsss

rothsss said:


> My order just went through. The order summary does not show the multi-box discount. Doug Bieter, VP, Sales, assured me that this is a web-only problem and that the actual billing will be correct.


I just got the email order confirm: It shows $399.99 for lifetime.


----------



## bradleys

Guys, not to be a pain, but it would be nice not to fill this thread with order info... I wanted this for reviews and features.

Thanks!

Watching the video interview with Jim Denney from TiVo, talking about the new HTML app platform and the plans for an App Store in the future.

http://gigaom.com/2013/08/19/tivo-5-netflix-youtube-apps-dial/


----------



## southerndoc

Wonder how long it'll take to ship...


----------



## wco81

Wait the remote is RF only so IR blasters don't work?

I have a Vulkano box to stream outside the home. I understand the Roamio Plus and Pro will also stream outside the home "soon" but there is only an iOS client?

What about Mac?


----------



## bradleys

wco81 said:


> Wait the remote is RF only so IR blasters don't work?
> 
> I have a Vulkano box to stream outside the home. I understand the Roamio Plus and Pro will also stream outside the home "soon" but there is only an iOS client?
> 
> What about Mac?


I doesn't need IR blaster with the RF signal, but it does send an IR signal for TV and AVR support.

At the moment, streaming is only supported on the IOS client, they say an Android update is coming soon, and I am hoping for a new TiVo desktop app as well.


----------



## gothaggis

So if it gives me a discount for multi service because I currently have a premiere, but then cancel service for the premiere because this will replace it, what happens?

As far as IR goes, I would like to know if the TiVo supports it - as those of us interested in the Xbox One will need IR support.


----------



## bradleys

gothaggis said:


> So if it gives me a discount for multi service because I currently have a premiere, but then cancel service for the premiere because this will replace it, what happens?
> 
> As far as IR goes, I would like to know if the TiVo supports it - as those of us interested in the Xbox One will need IR support.


You no longer have a qualifying "full price" TiVo and the next unit you purchase will not qualify for an MSO discount.

They did say that an old IR remote will still work on the new box. But, I don't understand what the Xbox has to do with the TiVo remote?

BTW - RF is significantly more responsive then IR.


----------



## amseven11

MeInDallas said:


> I wonder how many people are diggin out their credit cards now


I did lol


----------



## MeInDallas

amseven11 said:


> I did lol


Cool! Lucky lucky!


----------



## gothaggis

bradleys said:


> Ok, I will bite - why? They did say that an old IR remote will still work on the new box. But, I don't understand what the Xbox has to do with the TiVo remote?
> 
> BTW - RF is significantly more responsive then IR.


Not the remote, the TiVo itself. The Xbox One has the ability to control cable boxes using IR blaster (or via a HDMI standard that this new TiVo doesn't support). So if the new TiVo still supports the old IR remotes, we should be ok.


----------



## Tico

No mention anywhere....

But I assume tuning adapters are still needed?


----------



## GriffithStrife

I just ordered I hope my old Premiere Elite sells on amazon before the Roamio arrives.


----------



## bradleys

Tico said:


> No mention anywhere....
> 
> But I assume tuning adapters are still needed?


Tuner adapters are strictly a cable company abomination. Yes


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Well I have to say this is turning out to be the anti-Premiere, and that's a good thing.

Off the bat with the Premiere launch people considered it a bit of a dud. There was a distinct lack of an answer to the question, "What does it do that's new or any better?" The reviews showed an interface that was slow and incomplete and remained such for the product's whole life. And apps just plain fell flat.

Roamio is shaping up to be a completely different beast. Fast, a viable (and fast!) HTML5 app platform, DIAL support, an app store, streaming out of the home... It's not finished out of the gate, but this is super promising.


----------



## Dan203

Yeah it sounds like they are planning on releasing another software update in the fall to bring together some of the promised features. I wonder how many of these things will make their way down to the Premiere?


----------



## Philmatic

wco81 said:


> Will it have external drive support?
> 
> That would make getting the Plus now and adding an external drive, which would go for a lot less than the $200 difference between the Plus and the Pro.


All three have e.SATA ports, no word on if you need a branded TiVO drive, but that is likely.


----------



## MeInDallas

Philmatic said:


> All three have e.SATA ports, no word on if you need a branded TiVO drive, but that is likely.


I posted this before but I guess no one saw it. In the FAQ section it does say that the 1TB My Book AV DVR Expander from Western Digital can be used.


----------



## MeInDallas

And to add to that I wish they would allow others since Seagate has a 2TB DVR expander. I'm sure there are probably others. Western Digital only makes a 1TB DVR one.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Dan203 said:


> Yeah it sounds like they are planning on releasing another software update in the fall to bring together some of the promised features. I wonder how many of these things will make their way down to the Premiere?


I'm a little caught off guard actually. I expected the Roamio release to roughly coincide with the next software update, maybe launch a couple weeks afterwards so that the software (DTA, etc) was all in place. Basically about a month-ish from now... They must be feeling pretty confident.


----------



## amseven11

Soon as mine arrives I will attempt to upgrade the hard drive to 2TB (got the entry level one). Hopefully the same process as the Premiere will work :up:


----------



## sbiller

Anyone think the new interface will be ported back to the Premiere boxes? It seems like the fall update would incorporate most of this in the S4 line.


----------



## tenthplanet

Philmatic said:


> External power supply on the OTA model.


 Makes fixing power supplies easy.


----------



## sbiller

sbiller said:


> Anyone think the new interface will be ported back to the Premiere boxes? It seems like the fall update would incorporate most of this in the S4 line.


http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57599108-221/tivo-updates-coming-for-premiere-owners-but-when/



> *Software improvements to expect...maybe sometime*
> Roamio's hardware additions, like built-in Wi-Fi, more tuners and more storage, are obviously not coming to the Premiere. On the other hand, many of the other new extras are software-based, and could potentially migrate down to Premiere owners.
> 
> Beyond updates for the Mini, TiVo could offer no more specific information other than the simple statement that yes, the company is working on and will continue to support Premiere.
> 
> We asked whether the Premiere would get a performance enhancement to address its somewhat sluggish response times; access to the forthcoming App Store and 3-column filter for My Shows; a new Netflix and/or Amazon Instant app; the refreshed look and feel of the Roamio interface; and even whether owners of Premiere could use the TiVo Stream out of the house in the same way Roamio promises.
> 
> In every case we were told these improvements and more were under consideration for Premiere owners, but that "nothing is definite" at this time.


----------



## sbiller

More reviews with more technical details.

Interesting that TiVo decided to stick with the TiVo Streams quad-transcoding Zenverge versus the built-in dual-transcoding Broadcom BCM7425 in the Pace XG1. It probably makes the software migration and marketing/messaging a lot simpler going forward but I expect added to the build cost of the Roamio Plus/Pro.

Variety: TiVo Punches Live Cable TV, DVR Content Outside the Home with Roamio



> Trying to reinvigorate declining retail sales, TiVo is adding Slingbox-like features to the latest refresh of its DVR line to stream live TV and recordings to mobile devices  both in and out of the home  and has boosted capacity of top-end models to let TV buffs watch or record up to six shows at once.


Time: TiVo, say it loud: Youre a DVR, and youre proud!



> Even without the upcoming features, and with imposing competition from cheap Internet-only boxes, the Roamio models are a polished and powerful way to watch TV, on the Net and off. TiVo, say it loud: Youre a DVR, and youre proud.


Multichannel: TiVos New Roamio Lineup Targets TV Power Users & Cord-Cutters



> Thanks to an integrated transcoding chip from Zenverge, the Plus and Pro Roamio models will inherently support in-home streaming, sideloading (the ability to transfer shows and movies marked as copy freely from the DVR to a mobile device), and, starting this fall, out-of-home video streaming of live TV and content stored to the DVR.


----------



## MeInDallas

That would be really nice if they would migrate at least something that would help the Premiere's performance at least. All the other stuff, like the apps, I really dont care much for, but anything to improve performance would be really great.


----------



## overFEDEXed

MeInDallas said:


> View attachment 19376
> 
> 
> The Best Buy website now shows the Roamio but it says out of stock, so maybe the truck arrives soon.


The base Roamio shows a delivery date of 8/21 from Bestbuy. ($14, Express shipping) Their warehouse is about one hour from me.

I'm waiting on a Plus at least so...wait it will be.


----------



## MeInDallas

So from looking at the Tivo website, and comparing all 3 models, the only difference between the Plus and the Pro is the hard drive size?


----------



## southerndoc

Will the Mini get the UI update so it looks the same for Roamio owners?


----------



## ColHapablap

bradleys said:


> They did say that an old IR remote will still work on the new box.


Do you have a source for this? If this thing didn't take IR-in, and couldn't work with my universal remote, it'd probably be a deal-killer for me.


----------



## monkeydust

I ordered a Plus. But, two things I still want: Amazon Prime and better streaming from PC to TiVo (been using Stream Baby Stream but I'd like something less clunky and supported by TiVo).


----------



## Dan203

ColHapablap said:


> Do you have a source for this? If this thing didn't take IR-in, and couldn't work with my universal remote, it'd probably be a deal-killer for me.


It still has IR in. The new TiVo remote uses RF but the TiVo itself can still accept IR signals from a universal remote or an older TiVo remote.


----------



## ilovedvrs

Processing Order	August 20, 2013	1	TiVo Package, Product Lifetime TiVo Roamio	$599.98	$599.98 Tax	$14.00
Order total	$613.98

1) when will amazon sell this? I have prime shipping and no tax.
2) will it work with my bluetooth tivo remote I am using for my Tivo Series 3 HD?
3) why can't we transfer lifetime? I went from the original tivo (1999) to a S2 to the S3 with transfers. why no love?
4) how much is a Tivo Series 3 HD worth on ebay with lifetime?


----------



## Dan203

geekmedic said:


> Will the Mini get the UI update so it looks the same for Roamio owners?


I bet it does. Although I'm not sure if it'll happen right away or not. It's still unclear how many of the features talked about in these reviews are in the box right now and which are coming via some future software update.


----------



## Dan203

ilovedvrs said:


> Processing Order	August 20, 2013	1	TiVo Package, Product Lifetime TiVo Roamio	$599.98	$599.98 Tax	$14.00
> Order total	$613.98
> 
> 1) when will amazon sell this? I have prime shipping and no tax.
> 2) will it work with my bluetooth tivo remote I am using for my Tivo Series 3 HD?
> 3) why can't we transfer lifetime? I went from the original tivo (1999) to a S2 to the S3 with transfers. why no love?
> 4) how much is a Tivo Series 3 HD worth on ebay with lifetime?


Usually a few weeks, maybe longer

It should

They've only ever done a free transfer in that one case. The only other time they offered transfers it cost.

Probably about $200-$250


----------



## ilovedvrs

thanks Dan203, some more questions (tivo sales support is not open yet)

1) Built-in MoCA bridge - requires network adapter
Is this a TIVO product? if no can you link me to one a compatible one on amazon.

2) Tivo Stream (aka slingbox) $129
a) android app? free or $15?
b) built in features are exactly the same as the TiVo Stream external?
c) will it stream 1080p to my windows desktop? ( or just iOS devices which I hate and don't have?)

3) vs my Series 3 tivo, what does not having THX cert lose me? will I notice worse sound quality?

4) VUDU / Flixster for UV movies? I have almost 200 UV movies - any support or do I have to keep my Ruku?

5) why no usb 3? is usb 2.0 or eSATA better for external drives? 

6) wow 3.7lbs vs 6.9lbs!! why is the Roamio half the weight?


----------



## jcthorne

Has anyone published a review of the base 4 tuner unit?

Does anyone know if the Roamio units will accept IR signals from older peanut remotes (and sling box)?

Any word on an upgraded remote with back light and programming? The non-programmable remote is a non-starter for anyone with a home theater.


----------



## ilovedvrs

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/19/tivo-roamio/

"But overall I think you get the point: More tuners, more storage, more expensive, more better."


----------



## Dagwood70

Disappointed that the base model Roamio (OTA model) doesn't have built in Steam functionality. I was holding off buying a stream in hopes it would. I guess I'm buying a Stream and using my Premiere until it dies. For my purposes the updates aren't worth it yet. Oh well.


----------



## cncb

Is there any word whether these can play additional file formats from a PC like MKV? Also, very disappointed that the lifetime fee has gone up from $400 to $500 for new customers?


----------



## aaronwt

cncb said:


> Is there any word whether these can play additional file formats from a PC like MKV? Also, very disappointed that the lifetime fee has gone up from $400 to $500 for new customers?


It's been $500 for a couple of years now.

It was that price at least as early as when the Elite was first launched since I paid $399 for MSD lifetime back then.

It would be nice if they offered a discount to existing customers like they did when the Premiere launched. MSD Lifetime was $200 with MSD if you already owned an S3 back then and got a launch Premiere.


----------



## cncb

aaronwt said:


> It's been $500 for a couple of years now.


I could have sworn it was $399 when I checked for a new Premiere recently but I guess I was mistaken...


----------



## sbiller

cncb said:


> I could have sworn it was $399 when I checked for a new Premiere recently but I guess I was mistaken...


It's $399 for Multi-Service Discount customers. Occasionally TiVo also has a coupon code the give the $100 discount to all customers...


----------



## wco81

MeInDallas said:


> I posted this before but I guess no one saw it. In the FAQ section it does say that the 1TB My Book AV DVR Expander from Western Digital can be used.


Is that an external drive?

Does it add capacity or replace the capacity of the internal drive.


----------



## bradleys

sbiller said:


> Anyone think the new interface will be ported back to the Premiere boxes? It seems like the fall update would incorporate most of this in the S4 line.


If they just bring the new app platform to the Premier line it would be a huge win. For both current owners and TiVo (increased install base for devs)


----------



## series5orpremier

It only lasts 1-2 years before it fails and erases all your recordings. It's like flushing money down the toilet.


----------



## atmuscarella

aaronwt said:


> It's been $500 for a couple of years now.
> 
> It was that price at least as early as when the Elite was first launched since I paid $399 for MSD lifetime back then.
> 
> It would be nice if they offered a discount to existing customers like they did when the Premiere launched. MSD Lifetime was $200 with MSD if you already owned an S3 back then and got a launch Premiere.


I also hope they make us some upgrade offers. The Premiere was pretty much available with lifetime for $500 or less via upgrade offers right from the start. Right now the base Roamio with lifetime & MSD is $600, not bad but $500 would be better


----------



## series5orpremier

(The 1TB WD external drive)


----------



## cmeinck

I'm excited about the Roamio and considering a move to sell (2) Premiere XL and (1) Premiere for Roamio Pro w/ minis in various rooms. At launch, performance sounded as if it was spotty on Minis. Is that the same? Any of the reviews use the complete solution of Roamio with Minis?


----------



## compnurd

These sound great but I am headed back to Direct TV in 2 months... Not because of Tivo but because my cable company has a ****ty channel line up


----------



## randywalters

I'm very disappointed that the 4-tuner model no longer supports antenna alongside cable like previous models did - it's now either/or and only has one RF input. On my S3 i record all my local stations over the roof antenna (PQ is better than cable version and i never miss a recording due to TA malfunctions), and i only use the CableCard tuner for the cable channels.


----------



## dlfl

If roamio still has to use a Tuning Adapter for SDV, I'll never be interested, because that means it will be as unreliable as my current TiVo HD on TWC, Southwest Ohio. Too bad TiVo has never addressed the SDV tuning failure issue (which they have known about for years). I can't see spending the better part of $1K just to suffer the same issues.


----------



## bdraw

MeInDallas said:


> So from looking at the Tivo website, and comparing all 3 models, the only difference between the Plus and the Pro is the hard drive size?


Correct, not sure is an extra 2TB is worth $200 to many.


----------



## bdraw

geekmedic said:


> Will the Mini get the UI update so it looks the same for Roamio owners?


Not right now, a Mini connected to the Roamio still has the same UI of the Premiere.


----------



## slowbiscuit

dlfl said:


> If roamio still has to use a Tuning Adapter for SDV, I'll never be interested, because that means it will be as unreliable as my current TiVo HD on TWC, Southwest Ohio. Too bad TiVo has never addressed the SDV tuning failure issue (which they have known about for years). I can't see spending the better part of $1K just to suffer the same issues.


Why do you think that would change? Tivo doesn't have any control over how video is delivered over QAM channels, so as long as TWC, Cox etc. uses SDV with TAs you're stuck with that no matter what Tivo you buy.


----------



## SugarBowl

randywalters said:


> I'm very disappointed that the 4-tuner model no longer supports antenna alongside cable like previous models did - it's now either/or and only has one RF input. On my S3 i record all my local stations over the roof antenna (PQ is better than cable version and i never miss a recording due to TA malfunctions), and i only use the CableCard tuner for the cable channels.


And no component outs. My current OTA premiere is hooked up to 2 TV's this way.


----------



## shoeboo

If I understand correctly, the base level Roamio uses a different chip than the plus/pro. Do we know if the performance is the same?


----------



## Grakthis

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Android-Stream support also still coming.


Do we have an update on this? If they set a hard date ("October") I'd be preordering a romio right now to upgrade my S3. With it just as 'coming' then I'm waiting for it to be released before I order one.


----------



## Grakthis

gothaggis said:


> Not the remote, the TiVo itself. The Xbox One has the ability to control cable boxes using IR blaster (or via a HDMI standard that this new TiVo doesn't support). So if the new TiVo still supports the old IR remotes, we should be ok.


This notion that the Xbox will ever be able to "control" a cable box via HDMI-CEC is hilarious.

I mean, to give you some background, I am a huge MS loyalist and a bit of a fanboi. I have a preorder for an Xbox One and I am stoked about the new Kinect. So this isn't some "I hate MS rant."

This is just, the reality of HDMI-CEC is that the technology is not standardized, is not widely supported and is implemented only to the point of "power other devices on/off and maybe change an input." That's it.

You are NEVER going to be able to control your cable box in any satisfactory way with HDMI-CEC. Get that idea out of your head. It will not happen.


----------



## puffdaddy

Does anyone know what version of software the Roamio ships with?


----------



## NoVa

bdraw said:


> Correct, not sure is an extra 2TB is worth $200 to many.


Preliminarily, the 1TB seems to be the sweetspot.


----------



## elwaylite

Hi, 

I came on Tivo's site today to look at grabbing a premier for OTA recording only, and found the new boxes were already out (admitting I haven't kept up much).

Im looking at dialing back my pay service, and recording locals OTA, so I need the base model Roamio with 75 hours, and have a couple of questions:

1) Just from catching up in this thread, I can grab the ol reliable 1TB DVR Expander and increase storage from the get go?

2) Does the Roamio still split recordings between drives (internal and external) so if one goes out you lose them all?

3) On my older TiVo I used to supplement cable shows (Sons of Anarchy for example) through Amazon VOD. I'd buy the series pass and Amazon would auto download the HD file for the tv show after midnight to the TiVo. Is that still going to be the case where Amazon HD tv shows are a downloaded file and not streaming? This is important to me because of a slow connection.

Thanks.


----------



## cncb

Is there a list somewhere of the audio and video codecs supported by the new models (or for the old models for that matter)?


----------



## shoeboo

bdraw said:


> Not right now, a Mini connected to the Roamio still has the same UI of the Premiere.


Ben, will the Roamio up convert everything to 1080p, or is it just pass through like in the premiere?


----------



## bdraw

Grakthis said:


> This notion that the Xbox will ever be able to "control" a cable box via HDMI-CEC is hilarious.
> 
> I mean, to give you some background, I am a huge MS loyalist and a bit of a fanboi. I have a preorder for an Xbox One and I am stoked about the new Kinect. So this isn't some "I hate MS rant."
> 
> This is just, the reality of HDMI-CEC is that the technology is not standardized, is not widely supported and is implemented only to the point of "power other devices on/off and maybe change an input." That's it.
> 
> You are NEVER going to be able to control your cable box in any satisfactory way with HDMI-CEC. Get that idea out of your head. It will not happen.


I agree. CEC is pretty basic, but extensible. The extensions are not part of the standard, so just because MS supports them, doesn't mean others will.

If you want to get an idea of what is possible with CEC, check out this page.
http://www.cec-o-matic.com/

That being said, power on and volume would be a huge step forward. Always make sure the TV is on when the TiVo is on and show closed caption data when the TV is muted, are two simple examples of valuable abilities we don't currently have. Add in the RF remote and the smartphone/tablet apps and the possibilities are really cool.

And the Xbox's OneGuide is basically a replacement for the TiVo's guide. If you like TiVo, do you really think MS can do a better job? Not to mention, MS can easily support TiVo's IP control.


----------



## dlfl

slowbiscuit said:


> Why do you think that would change? Tivo doesn't have any control over how video is delivered over QAM channels, so as long as TWC, Cox etc. uses SDV with TAs you're stuck with that no matter what Tivo you buy.


I didn't expect it (SDV tuning failures) would change, but hope springs eternal. I and others here do think TiVo has some control over how their software handles the SDV tuning failures, e.g., by adjusting timeouts and/or adding tuning retries. The details have been discussed in several other threads over the past few years. I don't want to clutter up this thread with them. The jist of it is that one or two manual re-tunes (chan up/down) will tune a channel successfully after an SDV tuning failure (but that doesn't help for recording failures).


----------



## aadam101

Dan203 said:


> Yeah it sounds like they are planning on releasing another software update in the fall to bring together some of the promised features. I wonder how many of these things will make their way down to the Premiere?


I recall hearing the same thing from Nintendo about a year ago.....still waiting. Another half baked device that is released before it is finished. That being said, I'll still probably buy one.


----------



## Grakthis

my TiVo is always on. I do not want it to turn my TV on when my TiVo is on.

It would be minorly nice if when I pushed the TiVo button it automatically changed inputs to the TiVo. But how many TVs support that? My Chromecast is on a TV made in 2010 and it doesn't support input changing over HDMI-CEC.

The only CEC control I could see being useful between the TiVo and Xbox One would be the Xbox One checking the channel and changing the channel of the TiVo, and that would require a TiVo and MS partnership, and I don't think MS seems interested in that.


----------



## bdraw

shoeboo said:


> Ben, will the Roamio up convert everything to 1080p, or is it just pass through like in the premiere?


If you set the video output to 1080p and 1080p24, it'll convert everything to 1080p. I'd suggest you test this first, though, to make sure the TiVo does a better job of the conversion than your TV. Use a test pattern like pizza slices from the AVS forum.


----------



## bdraw

puffdaddy said:


> Does anyone know what version of software the Roamio ships with?


The review sample is running 20.3.6.G2-USA-6-840


----------



## Grakthis

The lack of stream support in the 199 box bums me out. I just saw that. I get it... I understand... but I was kinda excited about that possibility.

It's not a deal breaker for me (I'll just buy the $400 box) but it certainly takes it from "i'll buy one right now if they give me a release date on android" to "I'll probably look in to this around x-mas time or maybe in the spring and see how far the software has come."


----------



## bdraw

Grakthis said:


> my TiVo is always on. I do not want it to turn my TV on when my TiVo is on.
> 
> It would be minorly nice if when I pushed the TiVo button it automatically changed inputs to the TiVo. But how many TVs support that? My Chromecast is on a TV made in 2010 and it doesn't support input changing over HDMI-CEC.
> 
> The only CEC control I could see being useful between the TiVo and Xbox One would be the Xbox One checking the channel and changing the channel of the TiVo, and that would require a TiVo and MS partnership, and I don't think MS seems interested in that.


The biggest downside to CEC is the lack of configuration. This is in the implementation, though, so TiVo could provide settings. And we both know that the meaning of "on" to a DVR isn't the same as other devices.

My 2008 TV supports changing to one input via CEC, I suspect yours does to, but something is leading you to believe otherwise. I haven't played with the Chromecast, but of course CEC isn't the end all be all. I'm just saying I'd rather have the choice to disable it, then not have it at all.

Standard CEC does support tuner control, so I believe your one useful use case is possible.


----------



## tvn

Just purchased the Plus with MSD. Any insight as to when they will ship? I was looking at upgrading to the Genie and the free Sunday Ticket. Tempting but not a Tivo.


----------



## elwaylite

Here are my chat answers, just to help someone in the future:

*Me:* I assume it can handle the 1TB DVR Expander external drive to expand storage?
*Tivo: *Correct.

*Me: * Is it like previous models where part of the show is stored on the internal drive and part on the external, so if you lose one drive you lose all the shows? They are not seperate from each other?
*Tivo:* At the moment it is like that. Although I keep placing requests to change that.

*Me:* On my S3 and Premiere I used Amazon VOD quite often for tv shows. Those models would actually download the entire HD show as a file from Amazon and put them in your playlist. This is important to me because of slow internet speeds. Does the Roamio actually download the HD Amazon purchase as a file, or does it force you to stream the tv show/movie? I used to set up series pass's with Amazon and the new episode would auto download to the S3 and S4 after midnight when it became available on Amazon.
*Tivo: *It would still download the show or movie completely. We could not stream from Amazon yet, but hopefully someday.


----------



## Aero 1

SugarBowl said:


> And no component outs. My current OTA premiere is hooked up to 2 TV's this way.


it has a break out cable support. you will have to buy the extra cable to get analog outs.


----------



## sbiller

TiVo CEO Tom Rogers on CNBC in the next 3 minutes...


----------



## NoVa

Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR (am not sure if they currently have or plan to have a comparable whole home solution) :

Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos + Outlet charge = $5 * 1 =$5/mos
Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?

If you throw in Mini's for say 3 additional rooms $6 monthly charge (without lifetime MSD):
Mini's = 90*3 = 270 + 6*53 = $588
Extra Comcast DVR boxes = $15/mos *3 = $45/mos + Outlet charge = $5 * 3 =$15/mos

Total over 53 months:
Roamio Plus + 3 Mini's = (798+588)/53 = ~$26/mos.
vs.
Comcast 4 DVR solution:
$20*4 = $80/mos


----------



## P42

Any pics of the insides?
Verification of t he rumored 2.5" drive in the Base model?
Thanks!


----------



## wco81

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?


But the Comcast DVR is not in the same league right? Not even their X1 platform?


----------



## NoVa

wco81 said:


> But the Comcast DVR is not in the same league right? Not even their X1 platform?


I've updated my math to state my "unknowns" about the Comcast DVR.


----------



## andyw715

To bad the 1/2 hour buffers for each tuner aren't solid state. Would give the drive the ability to take a break.


----------



## steinbch

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR (am not sure if they currently have or plan to have a comparable whole home solution) :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?
> 
> If you throw in Mini's for say 3 additional rooms without lifetime MSD:
> Mini's = 90*3 = 270+6*53 = $588
> Extra Comcast DVR boxes = $15/mos *3 = $45/mos
> 
> Total over 53 months:
> Roamio Plus + 3 Mini's = (798+588)/53 = ~$26/mos.
> vs.
> Comcast 4 DVR solution:
> $15*4 = $60/mos


Don't forget resale. Your math is like comparing a lease vs owning a car...though I think the TiVo holds its resale value more. I'd venture you'll be able to get roughly 50% of your investment back if you decide to sell within the next 3-4 years.


----------



## b_scott

as an owner of Tivo Premiere XL and another Premiere both with lifetime, I'm trying to find reasons this is worth $700-800 to me (per box).

6 tuners is nice but I'll never have that many things recording at once. I use wired moca because that's best for transfer. Won't use Tivo Stream functionality.

Otherwise seems like a faster Premiere. Even the interface looks the same. This doesn't seem like the upgrade we were hoping for that was drastically improved and exciting.


----------



## b_scott

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR (am not sure if they currently have or plan to have a comparable whole home solution) :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?


also, look at the life of the Premiere from launch until Roamio. 3.5 years. So, you don't even really catch up until a year after the product is obsolete.

I don't think I'll be doing lifetime again. Because if you're selling a box, but then buying a box, it's still a wash.


----------



## Grakthis

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?


TVM is going to change that math. Paying $15 in 2 years is worth less than $15 today. It's worth more like $13-$14. But that doesn't make a HUGE difference. Probably a month or two longer on the break even. Figure your break even is more like 54-55 months.

Also, factor in the cable card rental. The TiVo is 798 + 2.99 (or whatever the CC costs you) per month and the Comcast includes the CC in the $15 (I assume).

So that's going to add more months. Since the CC cost can be assumed to be a fixed cost in both options, you can just drop it from both and say the cable box is ~$12 per month.

You know, i'll just do the math for you.

Assuming the cable company DVR is $12 more per month than the TiVo, and assuming you could make 5% return on the stock market, a $12 per month payment is worth $796 after 78 months, which is 6.5 years.

What that means is, you could go buy an annuity at 5% for 796 dollars and pay for the difference in the two DVRs for 6.5 years.

Realistically, you're not getting an annuity for 5% in this market, but 5% is historically a good discount rate for the stock market. So, imagine instead you invested 796 dollars in the stock market and each month cashed in $12 to pay for the DVR if that makes more sense to you.

So, in summary, if you're trying to cost justify a TiVo + Lifetime vs a cable company DVR, it's not going to work. You really have to justify the TiVo on the fact that it's a better product.


----------



## NoVa

steinbch said:


> Don't forget resale. Your math is like comparing a lease vs owning a car...though I think the TiVo holds its resale value more. I'd venture you'll be able to get roughly 50% of your investment back if you decide to sell within the next 3-4 years.


Agree that's how I was thinking about it too.
Updated to include the extra Comcast drop charges too.

So now ~ for a 4 TV home per month:
Comcast: $80 vs Romio+: $26


----------



## tvn

The company he used to run.



sbiller said:


> TiVo CEO Tom Rogers on CNBC in the next 3 minutes...


----------



## atmuscarella

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?


The Roamio Plus isn't designed to replace 1 cable DVR, it is designed to be part of a whole home system with several minis serving additional TVs.

If all you are doing is replace 1 cable DVR on 1TV the correct model is the base one which for anyone eligible for MSD will cost $600 with lifetime. So payback is $600/15/12 which is 40 months or 3.4 years. Plus I am guessing the new TiVo DVR is significantly superior to what Comcast is giving you, including having more tuners. As a side note in my area a TWC DVR costs allot more than $15/mo, the last time I looked I think it was $20/mo more that just renting a cable card so payback would be in the 30 month zone.


----------



## Grakthis

Oh, yeah, resale makes a huge difference. For example, my S3 without lifetime (even with an upgraded HD) would ebay for like $50 if I am lucky. If I had lifetime on it, it would ebay for like 300 (probably). So, that does make the equation more complicated, due to residual value.

If you assume the lifetime maintains $300 in value, your break even at 5% is closer to 45 months.

So, if your TiVo survives 3.75 years and has a resale value of $300 AND you sell it, you break even vs a cable company DVR at that point.


----------



## Grakthis

So, let's say you replace 3 CC DVRs with a lifetime Tivo (800) + 2 minis (lifetime at 150 each).

That's 1100 up front cost that you have to make up, but you're saving (15 + 15 + 15 - 3 for the TiVo cable card) $42 per month.

You've made that back in about 28 months. That's a big savings.


----------



## NoVa

Grakthis said:


> TVM is going to change that math. Paying $15 in 2 years is worth less than $15 today. It's worth more like $13-$14. But that doesn't make a HUGE difference. Probably a month or two longer on the break even. Figure your break even is more like 54-55 months.
> 
> Also, factor in the cable card rental. The TiVo is 798 + 2.99 (or whatever the CC costs you) per month and the Comcast includes the CC in the $15 (I assume).
> 
> So that's going to add more months. Since the CC cost can be assumed to be a fixed cost in both options, you can just drop it from both and say the cable box is ~$12 per month.
> 
> You know, i'll just do the math for you.
> 
> Assuming the cable company DVR is $12 more per month than the TiVo, and assuming you could make 5% return on the stock market, a $12 per month payment is worth $796 after 78 months, which is 6.5 years.
> 
> What that means is, you could go buy an annuity at 5% for 796 dollars and pay for the difference in the two DVRs for 6.5 years.
> 
> Realistically, you're not getting an annuity for 5% in this market, but 5% is historically a good discount rate for the stock market. So, imagine instead you invested 796 dollars in the stock market and each month cashed in $12 to pay for the DVR if that makes more sense to you.
> 
> So, in summary, if you're trying to cost justify a TiVo + Lifetime vs a cable company DVR, it's not going to work. You really have to justify the TiVo on the fact that it's a better product.


I purposely left out the alternative investment ROI option because realistically, how many of us are going to do that? LOL!

That said, my estimates were back of the envelope & to not only put down in black & white what potential costs/benefits are vs. a Comcast setup & what the totals are vs. a wired professional installed A/V setup with dedicated splitters & switches (haven't done this yet but preliminarily it is >$2K but pretty much future proof).


----------



## wco81

So 4 years from now, will Tivo introduce a next generation of DVRs?

And when they do, what will be the residual value of a Plus with Lifetime?


----------



## NoVa

Grakthis said:


> You guys are really bad at finance... your numbers are way short.
> 
> Back in the day when Lifetime was $200 it was virtually always financially correct to buy lifetime service.
> 
> These days, with the hardware being so cheap, the failure rate of HDs being what it is, the risk of obsolescence due to the changing technology landscape, and the existence of CC DVRs, it's virtually never going to be worth it to buy lifetime service anymore.
> 
> The chances of turning a net profit on a lifetime service are just incredibly low anymore. TiVo's finance guys are a lot smarter than we are and they spend a lot of time on this math. They know that only the most incredibly loyal and stingy customers will profit on the lifetime. They know this because if the average customer profited from a lifetime, they would raise the price on the lifetime until this wasn't true, because that's how economics works.


Easy now LOL! we're just TV watchers here.

Anyhow, I think we may have to move this to a TiVo economics thread of its own.

I'll ask the mods. That way we don't derail the Roamio's facts.


----------



## tomhorsley

NoVa said:


> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos + Outlet charge = $5 * 1 =$5/mos


You left out the money you'll have to pay a therapist for treatment if you are forced to use a Comcast DVR.

I know I didn't even care what the TiVo cost when I got disgusted with Comcast and switched (and I'm even disgusted with TiVo as well, but not enough to ever go back to Comcast .


----------



## b_scott

Grakthis said:


> You guys are really bad at finance... your numbers are way short.
> 
> Back in the day when Lifetime was $200 it was virtually always financially correct to buy lifetime service.
> 
> These days, with the hardware being so cheap, the failure rate of HDs being what it is, the risk of obsolescence due to the changing technology landscape, and the existence of CC DVRs, it's virtually never going to be worth it to buy lifetime service anymore.
> 
> The chances of turning a net profit on a lifetime service are just incredibly low anymore. TiVo's finance guys are a lot smarter than we are and they spend a lot of time on this math. They know that only the most incredibly loyal and stingy customers will profit on the lifetime. They know this because if the average customer profited from a lifetime, they would raise the price on the lifetime until this wasn't true, because that's how economics works.


^ this. $200 = worth it. $400 = give me a break.


----------



## worachj

randywalters said:


> I'm very disappointed that the 4-tuner model no longer supports antenna alongside cable like previous models did - it's now either/or and only has one RF input. On my S3 i record all my local stations over the roof antenna (PQ is better than cable version and i never miss a recording due to TA malfunctions), and i only use the CableCard tuner for the cable channels.


+1


----------



## tomhayes

I have a question about the Roamio (basic, with OTA support) I didn't see answered yet:

Can I have an antenna *AND* digital cable (not using cable card, just the unencrypted channels) plugged into the same box?

My Tivo Series 3 has two separate inputs (one for cable, on for antenna), but the Roamio seems to have only one.

Tivo HD back panel: [media]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.hdbeat.com/media/2006/09/series3-back-2_sm.jpg[/media]

Roamio back panel: [media]http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/lCAUScfSXSA/maxresdefault.jpg[/media])


----------



## alyssa

dlfl said:


> I didn't expect it (SDV tuning failures) would change, but hope springs eternal. I and others here do think TiVo has some control over how their software handles the SDV tuning failures, e.g., by adjusting timeouts and/or adding tuning retries. The details have been discussed in several other threads over the past few years. I don't want to clutter up this thread with them. The jist of it is that one or two manual re-tunes (chan up/down) will tune a channel successfully after an SDV tuning failure (but that doesn't help for recording failures).


:up::up:

I'm very interested in hearing any experiences with cable/TA and the new device.



d_scott said:


> as an owner of Tivo Premiere XL and another Premiere both with lifetime, I'm trying to find reasons this is worth $700-800 to me (per box).
> 
> 6 tuners is nice but I'll never have that many things recording at once. I use wired moca because that's best for transfer. Won't use Tivo Stream functionality.
> 
> Otherwise seems like a faster Premiere. Even the interface looks the same. This doesn't seem like the upgrade we were hoping for that was drastically improved and exciting.


my situation is similar but not exact- regardless the upshot is the same, i don't see the 'killer app' yet.

Streaming outside the house would be close
help with the TA issue would be killer

i already have enough storage & tuners <see sig>


----------



## Grakthis

NoVa said:


> I purposely left out the alternative investment ROI option because realistically, how many of us are going to do that? LOL!
> 
> That said, my estimates were back of the envelope & to not only put down in black & white what potential costs/benefits are vs. a Comcast setup & what the totals are vs. a wired professional installed A/V setup with dedicated splitters & switches (haven't done this yet but preliminarily it is >$2K but pretty much future proof).


*nods*

I still try to factor it in because, in my mind, I assume the 5% opportunity cost represents "my enjoyment from other things I could do with this money."

for example, a TiVo without lifetime + an Xbox One vs a TiVo with lifetime. The 5% represents my enjoyment of the Xbox One.

So, it's kinda shorthand for me for "other opportunity costs" even if I would never actually buy an annuity or invest in the stock market.


----------



## Grakthis

wco81 said:


> So 4 years from now, will Tivo introduce a next generation of DVRs?
> 
> And when they do, what will be the residual value of a Plus with Lifetime?


What is the value of a Premiere XL + Lifetime now?


----------



## jasbur

...


----------



## NoVa

For me - the Killer App is a whole home solution without me tearing out the walls to get it wired with high priced switches & splitters & RF remotes.

Roamio+Minis is that - maybe.
But the cost of equipment failure is high.


----------



## b_scott

alyssa said:


> :up::up:
> 
> I'm very interested in hearing any experiences with cable/TA and the new device.
> 
> my situation is similar but not exact- regardless the upshot is the same, i don't see the 'killer app' yet.
> 
> Streaming outside the house would be close
> help with the TA issue would be killer
> 
> i already have enough storage & tuners <see sig>


lol somehow my quoted name was changed to "d_scott"


----------



## wco81

Grakthis said:


> What is the value of a Premiere XL + Lifetime now?


I haven't shopped the market and my question wasn't rhetorical.

Just did a quick search on Craigslist and saw this. Not sure if it's the XL though:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ele/4011746484.html

Also this eBay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-Premie...-HD-Hrs-Wireless-N-Slide-Remote-/161085332112

Of course in the wake of the new product announcements, these prices could decline.


----------



## b_scott

Grakthis said:


> What is the value of a Premiere XL + Lifetime now?


about $450

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-PREMIE...DVRs_Hard_Drive_Recorders&hash=item27d6166c20

but that's before these were announced.


----------



## trip1eX

Wow the price is $400 for a good model. A bit surprised. I thought for sure $500. 

No complaints so far except an idea that not many seem to put into use.

The remote could use a flipphone (old school cellphone) keyboard for searching. For example, you tap the number 2 once for A, twice for B and three times for C. Most of the time a few letters would get you to the show you are looking for. And you wouldn't have to bother with the hunt and peck on-screen letter selection method.

btw the name is kind of meh. You might use it in an ad or something. But the actual product name? Eh small complaint and like every product name you get used to it.


----------



## Aero 1

randywalters said:


> I'm very disappointed that the 4-tuner model no longer supports antenna alongside cable like previous models did - it's now either/or and only has one RF input. On my S3 i record all my local stations over the roof antenna (PQ is better than cable version and i never miss a recording due to TA malfunctions), and i only use the CableCard tuner for the cable channels.


this reason is what will hopefully increase the value of my 2 premiere's and HD if i decide to sell them and go with the Roamio.


----------



## aaronwt

tomhayes said:


> I have a question about the Roamio (basic, with OTA support) I didn't see answered yet:
> 
> Can I have an antenna AND digital cable (not using cable card, just the unencrypted channels) plugged into the same box?
> 
> My Tivo Series 3 has two separate inputs (one for cable, on for antenna), but the Roamio seems to have only one.
> 
> Tivo HD back panel: Video Link: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.hdbeat.com/media/2006/09/series3-back-2_sm.jpg
> 
> Roamio back panel: Video Link: http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/lCAUScfSXSA/maxresdefault.jpg)


It's either four tuners digital cable or or four tuners with OTA. No combination of the two.


----------



## NoVa

steinbch said:


> Don't forget resale. Your math is like comparing a lease vs owning a car...though I think the TiVo holds its resale value more. I'd venture you'll be able to get roughly 50% of your investment back if you decide to sell within the next 3-4 years.


It's inconclusive & depends on the market needs.

I only have a couple of stats recently of sales on old TiVo's I made:

1) Premiere with 2 TB upgrade & NO Lifetime = Originally bought $200 - sold $80
2) S2 40 GB dual tuner with LIFETIME = Orignally bought $299 - sold $85

So residual value was: 40% & 28%


----------



## jcthorne

SugarBowl said:


> And no component outs. My current OTA premiere is hooked up to 2 TV's this way.


WHAT? The only Tivo that supports ATSC has no component outputs?

The lack of moca and stream were solveable with additional components. the lack of component outputs thus requiring unreliable DRM crippled HDMI only makes the base Roamio non-functional. No slingbox, no distribution etc.

So Tivo may have finally made a dead end for OTA users. The Premier is EOL and no functional replacement set of components. Really need to have ATSC on one of the higher end models.

THIS IS VERY BAD product planning. Very disappointed. Now I need to peruse the grey market for HDMI to component adaptors that disable DRM....Thanks Tivo.


----------



## aindik

/subscribe

So, wait, TiVo still doesn't do Amazon Prime Streaming?

Anyone know the logic behind omitting OTA from the higher priced boxes? I don't get it. 

I wonder what the resale value is of a TiVoHD with lifetime. I may have a couple of those to sell soon.


----------



## HeatherA

series5orpremier said:


> It only lasts 1-2 years before it fails and erases all your recordings. It's like flushing money down the toilet.


Untrue... I've had one running since 2009 and it's still going strong.


----------



## P42

@jcthorne Or buy a new TV and get HDMI inputs...


----------



## Aero 1

jcthorne said:


> WHAT? The only Tivo that supports ATSC has no component outputs?
> 
> The lack of moca and stream were solveable with additional components. the lack of component outputs thus requiring unreliable DRM crippled HDMI only makes the base Roamio non-functional. No slingbox, no distribution etc.
> 
> So Tivo may have finally made a dead end for OTA users. The Premier is EOL and no functional replacement set of components. Really need to have ATSC on one of the higher end models.
> 
> THIS IS VERY BAD product planning. Very disappointed. Now I need to peruse the grey market for HDMI to component adaptors that disable DRM....Thanks Tivo.


calm down. look at the picture of the back, it has an AV breakout cable support. your anger has just been reduced by an extra $15.


----------



## hungarianhc

I ordered the biggest one w/ lifetime service. It's a lot to pony up now, but I hate paying the monthly bill on TiVo now. It's so hard for me to justify haha. I'll be short term out the $ here, but given the pace of TiVo's hardware updates, I know I'll make the $ back. They won't update for another 2 - 3 years.


----------



## NYHeel

I currently have 2 premieres each with upgraded 2TB drives that I'm paying monthly ($23 total at $13 + $10). I also have a Tivo Stream that I bought at full price last year. I wanted to upgrade to the Roamio Pro and a Mini. But with Lifetime I'm at $1,250 + tax. That's too much. Way too much. I'm just going to have to wait until pricing comes down, there's ugrade pricing or some kind of package deals with a Mini.

My other option is to get a Plus and wait for a drive upgrade option to be available. In the meantime I could offload my shows to an external drive. I do a lot of recording and it takes me a long time to watch the stuff. I currently have 4 TB of storage with my 2 premieres and I use about 75% of that so I need 3-4 TB of storage, though not all of it needs to be local.


----------



## b_scott

hungarianhc said:


> I ordered the biggest one w/ lifetime service. It's a lot to pony up now, but I hate paying the monthly bill on TiVo now. It's so hard for me to justify haha. I'll be short term out the $ here, but given the pace of TiVo's hardware updates, I know I'll make the $ back. They won't update for another 2 - 3 years.


you'll not "make the money back" - Tivo definitely is not an investment, so please don't treat it like that. You'll never get back what you put into it. As was showed above, you'd have to keep it for 6.5 years to break even with cable boxes - not 2-3 years.


----------



## b_scott

NYHeel said:


> I currently have 2 premieres each with upgraded 2TB drives that I'm paying monthly ($23 total at $13 + $10). I also have a Tivo Stream that I bought at full price last year. I wanted to upgrade to the Roamio Pro and a Mini. But with Lifetime I'm at $1,250 + tax. That's too much. Way too much. I'm just going to have to wait until pricing comes down, there's ugrade pricing or some kind of package deals with a Mini.
> 
> My other option is to get a Plus and wait for a drive upgrade option to be available. In the meantime I could offload my shows to an external drive. I do a lot of recording and it takes me a long time to watch the stuff. I currently have 4 TB of storage with my 2 premieres and I use about 75% of that so I need 3-4 TB of storage, though not all of it needs to be local.


drive upgrade option: eSata

[media]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3082287/tivoreview-1-3-1024.jpg[/media]


----------



## aindik

b_scott said:


> you'll not "make the money back" - Tivo definitely is not an investment, so please don't treat it like that. You'll never get back what you put into it. As was showed above, you'd have to keep it for 6.5 years to break even with cable boxes - not 2-3 years.


The TiVo Mini, as compared to a second TiVo DVR with CableCard, will break me even in 33 months.


----------



## jcthorne

Aero 1 said:


> it has a break out cable support. you will have to buy the extra cable to get analog outs.


Is that available?


----------



## monkeydust

b_scott said:


> drive upgrade option: eSata
> 
> [media]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3082287/tivoreview-1-3-1024.jpg[/media]


When you have an external drive, do you have the option of what gets stored on it (such as putting your movies on it and then moving the drive to a newer dvr)?


----------



## wco81

b_scott said:


> drive upgrade option: eSata
> 
> [media]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3082287/tivoreview-1-3-1024.jpg[/media]


Is it any eSata drive or some specific models?

I'm using an eSata enclosure with a 2 TB drive for a Direct TV DVR now, would like to use that if I got one of the Roamio Plus models.


----------



## ilovedvrs

Just got off the phone with sales.

I ordered my Roamio online 7AM EST.

They said it should ship today or tomorrow.


----------



## aindik

monkeydust said:


> When you have an external drive, do you have the option of what gets stored on it (such as putting your movies on it and then moving the drive to a newer dvr)?


Under the old system that has existed since the Series 3, no. You can only have one external drive associated with a DVR, you can't see it as a separate drive, and if you ever boot the DVR without the drive in, you'll lose all the recordings on the drive and never be able to recover them (after it warns you). And if you plug the drive into another DVR it will format the drive.

The drive and the DVR are "married," and, much like a real marriage, when it ends, most of the stuff is gone.


----------



## NYHeel

b_scott said:


> drive upgrade option: eSata
> 
> [media]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3082287/tivoreview-1-3-1024.jpg[/media]


Those WD AV expanders have a terrible track record. If that's the only one I can use I'd rather download to an external connected to my PC for storage.


----------



## monkeydust

aindik said:


> Under the old system that has existed since the Series 3, no. You can only have one external drive associated with a DVR, you can't see it as a separate drive, and if you ever boot the DVR without the drive in, you'll lose all the recordings on the drive and never be able to recover them (after it warns you). And if you plug the drive into another DVR it will format the drive.


Oh, that's not good.


----------



## wco81

aindik said:


> Under the old system that has existed since the Series 3, no. You can only have one external drive associated with a DVR, you can't see it as a separate drive, and if you ever boot the DVR without the drive in, you'll lose all the recordings on the drive and never be able to recover them (after it warns you). And if you plug the drive into another DVR it will format the drive.


Man that sucks. My eSata enclosure has a soft power switch and after a power failure, it often doesn't power up. So my Direct TV DVR will boot to the internal drive instead of the eSata.

But it doesn't lose the recordings or the series recording settings, once I turn it on and reboot the DVR.


----------



## Aero 1

jcthorne said:


> Is that available?


https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/av-cable

and what DRM are you talking about? there is no DRM on OTA and if you are talking about capturing netflix streams via analog to another device, there is $50 software that will do that much easier and digitally.


----------



## tedede

Any word if TiVo will add the ability to stream outside the home on the (originial, not built in) stream?


----------



## steinbch

NoVa said:


> It's inconclusive & depends on the market needs.
> 
> I only have a couple of stats recently of sales on old TiVo's I made:
> 
> 1) Premiere with 2 TB upgrade & NO Lifetime = Originally bought $200 - sold $80
> 2) S2 40 GB dual tuner with LIFETIME = Orignally bought $299 - sold $85
> 
> So residual value was: 40% & 28%


I think the S1/S2 resale value is a little skewed because of the shift to HD. I don't foresee a shift in technology like that in the next 4-5 years (except the shift away from cable). I was able to get 75% of my original S3 purchase price back when the Premiere came out. I should be able to also get 50% of my Premiere purchase price back when I sell it in the next couple of weeks. Resale without lifetime is a crapshoot.


----------



## jcthorne

Aero 1 said:


> calm down. look at the picture of the back, it has an AV breakout cable support. your anger has just been reduced by an extra $15.


OK OK. Breakout cable is not the end of the world. Just cost. HDMI only was going to be a problem and its not my projector. Its the DRM on HDMI outputs that disable when the connected display is turned off. Does not matter if the break out cable for component is available. Is this cable shown anywhere? I have not even seen a photo of the back panel of the base unit yet. Where did you see that?


----------



## b_scott

NYHeel said:


> Those WD AV expanders have a terrible track record. If that's the only one I can use I'd rather download to an external connected to my PC for storage.


I bought one in 2008 (i think) when the HD launched. My parents have it now and it's still running. The Tivo's internal, however....


----------



## trip1eX

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR (am not sure if they currently have or plan to have a comparable whole home solution) :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos + Outlet charge = $5 * 1 =$5/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?


If a Comcast DVR is $20/month total then you will have shelled out $800 by the time you get to 40 months.

Resale value on a Tivo means you start hovering around the break even point compared to renting a $20/month comcast DVr sometime in year one and do better for sure by the time you complete year two.

Of course you assume your Tivo hardware won't have problems.


----------



## jcthorne

Aero 1 said:


> https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/av-cable
> 
> and what DRM are you talking about? there is no DRM on OTA and if you are talking about capturing netflix streams via analog to another device, there is $50 software that will do that much easier and digitally.


That site shows that cable is for the Mini only but may not be updated yet. The DRM is on ALL HDMI outputs. Has nothing to do with OTA vs CATV. Mostly my concern is connection of a Slingbox and a distribution amplifier for a couple other TV's in the house that do not have Tivos. These use component connections. HDMI does not work well for either of those when the main display turns off.


----------



## Aero 1

jcthorne said:


> OK OK. Breakout cable is not the end of the world. Just cost. HDMI only was going to be a problem and its not my projector. Its the DRM on HDMI outputs that disable when the connected display is turned off. Does not matter if the break out cable for component is available. Is this cable shown anywhere? I have not even seen a photo of the back panel of the base unit yet. Where did you see that?


----------



## Aero 1

jcthorne said:


> That site shows that cable is for the Mini only but may not be updated yet. The DRM is on ALL HDMI outputs. Has nothing to do with OTA vs CATV. Mostly my concern is connection of a Slingbox and a distribution amplifier for a couple other TV's in the house that do not have Tivos. These use component connections. HDMI does not work well for either of those when the main display turns off.


you mean HDCP not DRM. ok, yea, if you have old equipment, HDCP will bit you in the ass.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

jcthorne said:


> OK OK. Breakout cable is not the end of the world. Just cost. HDMI only was going to be a problem and its not my projector. Its the DRM on HDMI outputs that disable when the connected display is turned off. Does not matter if the break out cable for component is available. Is this cable shown anywhere? I have not even seen a photo of the back panel of the base unit yet. Where did you see that?


The breakout cable pack he showed you is for the Mini. The Roamio-4 apparently only has one breakout port, suggesting it might be composite-out only. So you may need an hdmi-to-whatever adapter for your needs unless Tivo produces a new breakout cable that carries component + audio just for the Roamio.


----------



## NYHeel

b_scott said:


> I bought one in 2008 (i think) when the HD launched. My parents have it now and it's still running. The Tivo's internal, however....


Yeah, but I'm nervous as the failure rate on those drives appears much higher than others. I don't want to lose every recording if the drive goes. If I have an external by my PC I only lose the recordings that are on it if it goes bad.

Plus it's still only 1 TB and expensive. I think I'm just going to wait for someone to figure out the drive upgrade.


----------



## Aero 1

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The breakout cable he showed you is for the Mini. The Roamio apparently only has one breakout port, suggesting it's might be composite-out only. So you may need an hdmi-to-whatever for your needs unless Tivo produces a new breakout cable that carries component + audio just for the Roamio.


that could be it, but no one knows, we know there is an AV port at least. or they will use the same mini cable and force you to use optical for audio. who knows.


----------



## cwoody222

bradleys said:


> The Cast button on the Netflix and YouTube apps will also work with TiVo. Just as with Google's $35 Chromecast dongle, anyone with the latest YouTube or Netflix apps can throw video from a mobile device to a TV through the Roamio or an updated Mini.


Will this work with regular Chrome browser tabs too?


----------



## NoVa

b_scott said:


> you'll not "make the money back" - Tivo definitely is not an investment, so please don't treat it like that. You'll never get back what you put into it. As was showed above, you'd have to keep it for 6.5 years to break even with cable boxes - not 2-3 years.


It depends on how you do it esp. if you use it as a whole house solution:

in my example above:
Comcast 4 DVR solution:
$20*4 = $80/mos 
vs.
Roamio+ Lifetime + 3 Mini's = (798+270) = 1068/80 = 13.35 months +Mini's $18/mos*13.35 mos = 240+1068 = 1308/80 = 16 mos payback.


----------



## Philmatic

tedede said:


> Any word if TiVo will add the ability to stream outside the home on the (originial, not built in) stream?


Did you not even read the reviews? Yes! This will be happening "soon" on both the new Roamio boxes and the older Premiers with separate TiVo Streams.

And you guys complaining about lack of Stream functionality on the $200 model? Nothing is stopping you from purchasing a TiVo Stream separately. ~$100 and you can literally plug it in anywhere on your network. This makes sense, you only have to pay for it if it is a feature you want, that's how base models work.


----------



## shoeboo

tedede said:


> Any word if TiVo will add the ability to stream outside the home on the (originial, not built in) stream?


From the FAQ on the TiVo.com Roamio page the features for stream will be the same as what is built into Plus/Pro. It also says in another section that streaming outside will be available to base model using the stream.


----------



## NotNowChief

Still No Android Support! Are They Kidding Me!

What Is Wrong With These People!


----------



## jcthorne

Aero 1 said:


> you mean HDCP not DRM. ok, yea, if you have old equipment, HDCP will bit you in the ass.


Whatever. HDCP is a specific form of digital rights management. It disables the output when an 'approved' display is not connected. This makes use of a slingbox ..... difficult without going outside of mainstream products. IE grey market.

Has Tivo published a full set of specs for the Roamio anywhere that would describe the breakout cable usage? Perhaps a pdf of the owners manual?

Just reviewed the specs at TiVo.com. NONE of the new Roamios support component outputs, composite and HDMI ONLY


----------



## cwoody222

series5orpremier said:


> It only lasts 1-2 years before it fails and erases all your recordings. It's like flushing money down the toilet.


My Series3 lasted almost 6 years and I made back my lifetime service to roll into a Premiere.


----------



## NotNowChief

Philmatic said:


> Did you not even read the reviews? Yes! This will be happening "soon" on both the new Roamio boxes and the older Premiers with separate TiVo Streams.
> 
> And you guys complaining about lack of Stream functionality on the $200 model? Nothing is stopping you from purchasing a TiVo Stream separately. ~$100 and you can literally plug it in anywhere on your network. This makes sense, you only have to pay for it if it is a feature you want, that's how base models work.


"Soon"?

Like DTA on the Mini was coming "soon".


----------



## aindik

cwoody222 said:


> My Series3 lasted almost 6 years and I made back my lifetime service to roll into a Premiere.


You sold a 6 year old Series 3 with lifetime for $400? When?


----------



## b_scott

trip1eX said:


> If a Comcast DVR is $20/month total then you will have shelled out $800 by the time you get to 40 months.
> 
> Resale value on a Tivo means you start hovering around the break even point compared to renting a $20/month comcast DVr sometime in year one and do better for sure by the time you hit complete year two.
> 
> Of course you assume your Tivo hardware won't have problems.


except you pay the outlet charge for cable cards too, for the Tivo.


----------



## bdraw

Started a new thread to discuss the cost comparison to a provider's DVR.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9775269


----------



## aindik

b_scott said:


> except you pay the outlet charge for cable cards too, for the Tivo.


Not if you only have one plus minis.


----------



## monkeydust

Was just thinking with likelihood 4k HDTV's becoming mainstream sometime in the life of the Roamio's, will the storage requirements be jumping like when it went from SD to HD? So, the 1TB of the Plus might not last very long once the 4k shows start coming in.


----------



## cwoody222

I'm underwhelmed. I watch a LOT of TV but find I can get 99% with two tuners.

I have a Slingbox but would like integrated support built in but I rarely use the Sling so it's hardly a deal-breaker.

No Amazon streaming still? New apps for Netflix and Hulu Plus are nice and could mean I could almost eliminate my Roku (still need it for .mkv streaming... unless TiVo can do that via Chrome browser casting) but that also isn't a deal-breaker.

You know what IS a deal-breaker? That outrageous high price! Their units just went from "regularly able to be found for $49" to 4x that! My Premiere is the $99 one and is just fine for this avid TV watcher.

I have a lot of friends who are only antenna users or want to be and the ones who haven't switched yet are holding out due to DVR features and losing TV sets in other rooms. I've been touting TiVo as a way to give them DVR and JUST YESTERDAY I told a friend to hold out for a Roamio so he can stream to an iPad in the bedroom.

But at $199 starting price for antenna-supported model the suggestion is dead in the water for anyone but a big tech geek.

I don't mind the Roamios but I think they need a lower-price model. But I guess they want to stay a niche device.


----------



## b_scott

NoVa said:


> It depends on how you do it esp. if you use it as a whole house solution:
> 
> in my example above:
> Comcast 4 DVR solution:
> $20*4 = $80/mos
> vs.
> Roamio+ Lifetime + 3 Mini's = (798+270) = 1068/80 = 13.35 months +Mini's $18/mos*13.35 mos = 240+1068 = 1308/80 = 16 mos payback.


True. You should factor in your outlet charge and cable card too, but it does make it a much better deal if you have more than say two TV's (we don't).


----------



## b_scott

aindik said:


> Not if you only have one plus minis.


pretty sure you still have to pay for that one cable card. But don't quote me, I'll have to look at my bill. You're probably right.


----------



## jrtroo

How quickly everyone forgets the initial price for Premieres. Tivo has an early adopter tax, wait a bit and prices will settle down.


----------



## Aero 1

jcthorne said:


> Just reviewed the specs at TiVo.com. NONE of the new Roamios support component outputs, composite and HDMI ONLY


would you just read the reviews and look at the pictures








.


----------



## trip1eX

b_scott said:


> except you pay the outlet charge for cable cards too, for the Tivo.


Wow. Good 'ole Comcast.


----------



## NoVa

b_scott said:


> except you pay the outlet charge for cable cards too, for the Tivo.


In that example - the outlet charges are per Comcast Box location but the TiVo 4-6 tuners have only 1 outlet charge - so as you add more Mini's you gain more savings.


----------



## Philmatic

cwoody222 said:


> Will this work with regular Chrome browser tabs too?


Jim Denney said in an interview with The Verge that this is something they are looking into and would implement if there was interest.



> The potential here is obviously enormous, and Denney says TiVo will continue to look at expanding Cast support  including support for tabcasting from Chrome if the demand is there. "Traditionally we havent been focused on how to bring a browser experience to the TV, but well contemplate it," he says. "Especially if we get feedback that it could be interesting. The platform is capable of a lot."


http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/20/4638390/tivo-roamio-pro-review



NotNowChief said:


> "Soon"?
> 
> Like DTA on the Mini was coming "soon".


Hey, I DID put quotes around it. lol


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

monkeydust said:


> Was just thinking with likelihood 4k HDTV's becoming mainstream sometime in the life of the Roamio's, will the storage requirements be jumping like when it went from SD to HD? So, the 1TB of the Plus might not last very long once the 4k shows start coming in.


Being truly mainstream in say, the next 4 years is questionable. But in any event, chances are 4K will be transmitted in h.265. This would actually keep bandwidth/storage at current MPEG2 levels since it's roughly 4x as efficient.

The real problem is the h.265 standard, which I believe was only very recently ratified, and these boxes are very unlikely to be able to decode h.265 channels.


----------



## trip1eX

jrtroo said:


> How quickly everyone forgets the initial price for Premieres. Tivo has an early adopter tax, wait a bit and prices will settle down.


Yeah prices came down on Premieres pretty quickly. Weren't they released in March and by September of the same year were much less? AT the same time I think the deals I'm talking about were from Electronic Expo and were a result of the mixup over Tivo's change in how they sold their DVR. Tivo lowered the price of the hardware and raised the price of the monthly plan around that time or something like that. Or the $99 price that I'm remembering was supposed to be tied to a higher 2 yr monthly payment plan. But some of us got the $99 price and were able to put lifetime on those boxes.


----------



## elwaylite

No waiting for me. Cutting Dish Network back to a bare minimum and using the basic model for OTA recording. I ordered it and a DVR Expander this AM.


----------



## Philmatic

4K is a pipe dream, outside of possibly seeing it used on ESPN, HBO and VoD, there is no chance that we will see 4K broadcasts anytime soon. It will never come to OTA and there will never be enough demand for it for the other 99% of the channels. This is not an issue for the TiVo folks.

Same with h.265, cable companies are JUST NOW starting to embrace h.264, and that's been around for *10 years*. It was hailed as the savior to MPEG 2 and was twice as efficient and it took them 10 years to BEGIN implementation. h.265 won't be a factor for at least 5 years, even then it won't be useful until cable companies implement it.


----------



## Aero 1

they just hit amazon with immediate delivery. looks like they are going quick.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=roamio&tag=primeplugin-20&rh=p_85:1


----------



## bofis

So wait, can the base Roamio box only do 4-tuners OTA Antenna OR 4-tuners cable with cablecards and not some combination of the two like my Series 3, which presently can record only 2 shows at once, but that can be two over antenna, two over cable, or one over each.

Separately, I'm very sad TiVo never saw the real value in the OLED screen on the Series 3, I LOVE LOVE LOVE being able to glance at my TiVo while my setup is off and see exactly what shows are recording.


----------



## Aero 1

picture of the power brick on the 4 tuner roamio


----------



## Fofer

innocentfreak said:


> The Verge Nilay seems to like it and he hated the Premiere. Price seems to be his big complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Irritatingly, TiVo still hasnt converted the entire interface to HD  there are still old-style SD screens throughout the settings menu, which Ive been complaining about for at least three years. Why cant anyone at TiVo just spend a weekend fixing this? Denney laughs at me. "I have that conversation with the engineering team all the time," he says. "It truly is a matter of prioritization." Note to TiVo: this needs to be a priority.
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder if he will be cut off like Dave was
Click to expand...




MeInDallas said:


> Also I noticed its 100% HD menus now, no more SD menus.


Huh?

So which is it? Why the discrepancy in the reporting here?

And if the version Nilay saw still had incomplete HDUI, and the FAQ states differently, does that mean it just took a weekend and finished it already? And why did Denney have to "have that conversation with the engineering team all the time?" Maybe if he spent less time "having the conversation" and just finishing it as a priority already, it would have been done years ago.


----------



## brentil

shoeboo said:


> If I understand correctly, the base level Roamio uses a different chip than the plus/pro. Do we know if the performance is the same?


The 4 tuner device uses the Broadcom 7425 where the 6 tuner devices use Broadcom 7429. The only difference is the lack of integrated transcoding hardware on the 7425.


----------



## aindik

b_scott said:


> pretty sure you still have to pay for that one cable card. But don't quote me, I'll have to look at my bill. You're probably right.


Depends on your provider. Comcast doesn't charge for CableCards. They charge for "outlets." The first outlet is included with most packages. Additional outlets are $9.95 each (unless that outlet uses a DVR in which case it's more). Then, on any outlet (whether first or additional) that uses a CableCard instead of a Comcast box, you get a $2.50 / month "customer owned equipment" credit.

So, if you have two TiVos and no Comcast boxes, you pay $9.95 additional outlet fee, minus $5.00 for 2 COE credits = $4.95.

Reduce that to one TiVo and you get the $2.50 credit without any additional fee. So, going from two TiVos to one will reduce my cable bill by $7.45 / month. YMMV.


----------



## waterchange

NoVa said:


> Please check my math here vs. a Comcast DVR (am not sure if they currently have or plan to have a comparable whole home solution) :
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = 798
> Comcast DVR = ~$15/mos + Outlet charge = $5 * 1 =$5/mos
> Payback period for Roamio PLus = 798/15/12 = 53.3 Months = 4.4 years?


As others have stated, the analysis above doesn't take into account the value of a Roamio+lifetime vs. zero value of the Comcast DVR when you're done with it. Think of the analysis a bit differently ... take a 3 year outlook (using some made-up numbers):

Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = $798. Subtrace $2.50 a month of customer owned equipment credit ($90 credit over 3 years). Sell Roamio on Craigslist/eBay for $300. Total cost of ownership is $408.

Comcast HD DVR at $17/mo for 3 years costs $612.

A 2 year outlook (assuming you could sell a Roamio+lifetime for $400) would put the Roamio cost of ownership at $336 compared to Comcast $408.

Note, I just sold a used 2-tuner 320GB Premiere+lifetime on Sunday for $375 so I think my used Roamio sell prices above are conservative.


----------



## b_scott

aindik said:


> Depends on your provider. Comcast doesn't charge for CableCards. They charge for "outlets." The first outlet is included with most packages. Additional outlets are $9.95 each (unless that outlet uses a DVR in which case it's more). Then, on any outlet (whether first or additional) that uses a CableCard instead of a Comcast box, you get a $2.50 / month "customer owned equipment" credit.
> 
> So, if you have two TiVos and no Comcast boxes, you pay $9.95 additional outlet fee, minus $5.00 for 2 COE credits = $4.95.
> 
> Reduce that to one TiVo and you get the $2.50 credit without any additional fee. So, going from two TiVos to one will reduce my cable bill by $7.45 / month. YMMV.


current bill:


----------



## Fofer

Fofer said:


> Huh?
> 
> So which is it? Why the discrepancy in the reporting here?
> 
> And if the version Nilay saw still had incomplete HDUI, and the FAQ states differently, does that mean it just took a weekend and finished it already? And why did Denney have to "have that conversation with the engineering team all the time?" Maybe if he spent less time "having the conversation" and just finishing it as a priority already, it would have been done years ago.


So, to clarify, according to the FAQs here:



> *A new UI look and feel has been introduced on TiVo Roamio. Will a TiVo Premiere have access to this new look? Can I download it to a previous TiVo box?*
> No, the new look and feel is only available on the TiVo Roamio platform and will not be downloadable to any previous TiVo DVRs. The UI looks slightly different but the functionality and menus are exactly the same.
> 
> *Can I use the classic SD UI if I want?*
> No. Classic SD UI is no longer available on TiVo Roamio and future platforms. Users can still set their aspect ratio to 4:3 and/or their Video Output Format to 480i/p so the UI can be viewed on an SD TV, but instead of switching back to Classic UI, it will scale the UI down.


The current (still slow) HDUI has some SD elements which stand out like a sore thumb. It feels embarrassing to wonder about but with TiVo you never know -- will the Roamio's UI and menus be completely HD optimized?


----------



## HenryFarpolo

Just purchased a plus on Amazon with delivery tomorrow. Headed to Verizon for a cablecard.


----------



## wco81

What about compared to an HTPC with a HD Home Run Prime and Xboxes as expanders?


----------



## monkeydust

Aero 1 said:


> they just hit amazon with immediate delivery. looks like they are going quick.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=roamio&tag=primeplugin-20&rh=p_85:1


Thanks, that just saved me $100 on tax and shipping!

Calling tivo now to cancel the order I placed with them.

EDIT: Save me over $60 actually, they said I shouldnt have been charged $63 for shipping.


----------



## mike123abc

monkeydust said:


> Was just thinking with likelihood 4k HDTV's becoming mainstream sometime in the life of the Roamio's, will the storage requirements be jumping like when it went from SD to HD? So, the 1TB of the Plus might not last very long once the 4k shows start coming in.


Considering that there is not a broadcast or cable standard yet, much less HDMI that can truly handle UHD yet, I do not think it will show itself in the next 4-5 years on most cable systems.


----------



## Grakthis

aindik said:


> The TiVo Mini, as compared to a second TiVo DVR with CableCard, will break me even in 33 months.


While that's true, you should compare the TiVo mini + Tivo WITHOUT lifetime to a Tivo mini + Tivo WITH lifetime, and you'll find that the WITHOUT lifetime breaks even MUCH faster than the one with.

So, while the mini is surely a net saver over cable company boxes, it's not a reason to lifetime the TiVo.


----------



## aaronwt

jcthorne said:


> OK OK. Breakout cable is not the end of the world. Just cost. HDMI only was going to be a problem and its not my projector. Its the DRM on HDMI outputs that disable when the connected display is turned off. Does not matter if the break out cable for component is available. Is this cable shown anywhere? I have not even seen a photo of the back panel of the base unit yet. Where did you see that?


Just run the HDMI output through a 1x2 hdmi spliiter. Connect on eoutput to the TV and don't connect anything to the other output. That solves any problems when the Tv is off or on a different input. This works with the Premieres and S3 boxes so i would expect it to also work with the Roamio.

I use my slingbox connected this way right now. When I get my Roamio my Slingbox will either connect to the Roamio or one of my TiVo Minis.


----------



## kb7oeb

I never understood why TiVO has chosen to limit the higher end models to cable only. It's likely the tuner they use supports ATSC.

It didn't really matter on the Premiere but now to stay with OTA you have to give up some features like the built in streaming.


----------



## tomhayes

aaronwt said:


> It's either four tuners digital cable or or four tuners with OTA. No combination of the two.


Booooooo!!!! I was ready to buy.

Actually, when this Tivo breaks I'll likely move to my Windows 7 PC with two of the SiliconDust OTA/digital cable (not CableCard) tuners. They have only one input like the Tivo - but two of them cost about $140 dollars - and there's no subscription fee.

(I have one already recording just OTA programming as a backup in case cable goes out.)


----------



## aaronwt

NotNowChief said:


> Still No Android Support! Are They Kidding Me!
> 
> What Is Wrong With These People!


Did you actually expect Stream Android support to launch with the Roamio? I certainly didn't.


----------



## mike123abc

kb7oeb said:


> I never understood why TiVO has chosen to limit the higher end models to cable only. It's likely the tuner they use supports ATSC.
> 
> It didn't really matter on the Premiere but now to stay with OTA you have to give up some features like the built in streaming.


It would not be so bad if they had an "XL" version of the OTA model with a larger disk. I am disappointed that they did not have a large disk unit with OTA.


----------



## tatergator1

monkeydust said:


> Was just thinking with likelihood 4k HDTV's becoming mainstream sometime in the life of the Roamio's, will the storage requirements be jumping like when it went from SD to HD? So, the 1TB of the Plus might not last very long once the 4k shows start coming in.


4k HDTV is nice, but rapid adoption within the next 3-5 years (reasonable life expectancy of the Roamio DVR) is, to put it kindly, remote. Infrastructure is the biggest problem. Cable companies are struggling to keep enough bandwidth available for current HD video, SD video, Internet, et cetera. Seriously, a lot of cable providers are still broadcasting 30-60 Analog video channels. Sure, the end of nearly all analog cable is likely going to happen in that 3-5 years. Over the last year, Cable companies are just now moving to broadcast some channels in H.264 as opposed to Mpeg-2.

4k HDTV's are evolving/developing quickly, but the cable industry innovates at a snails pace, so the only 4k content making it to capable HDTV's within the next 3-5 years will be via digital download or hard copy media; streaming or cable channels with 4k content are a pipe dream in that time frame.


----------



## Philmatic

kb7oeb said:


> I never understood why TiVO has chosen to limit the higher end models to cable only. It's likely the tuner they use supports ATSC.
> 
> It didn't really matter on the Premiere but now to stay with OTA you have to give up some features like the built in streaming.


It doesn't, they removed the OTA decoder to add two more Cable tuners. Additionally they did research and the market for people who want *six* Cable tuners *and* OTA is minuscule. Similarly, they market for people who want both OTA and Cable at the same time is minuscule, which is why the base Roamio only allows one or the other, but has the benefit of 4 full tuners.


----------



## NoVa

waterchange said:


> As others have stated, the analysis above doesn't take into account the value of a Roamio+lifetime vs. zero value of the Comcast DVR when you're done with it. Think of the analysis a bit differently ... take a 3 year outlook (using some made-up numbers):
> 
> Roamio Plus + Lifetime MSD = $798. Subtrace $2.50 a month of customer owned equipment credit ($90 credit over 3 years). Sell Roamio on Craigslist/eBay for $300. Total cost of ownership is $408.
> 
> Comcast HD DVR at $17/mo for 3 years costs $612.
> 
> A 2 year outlook (assuming you could sell a Roamio+lifetime for $400) would put the Roamio cost of ownership at $336 compared to Comcast $408.
> 
> Note, I just sold a used 2-tuner 320GB Premiere+lifetime on Sunday for $375 so I think my used Roamio sell prices above are conservative.


I'm with ya. My numbers were a discussion starter. 
Due to the variably of the resale market & what regional cable operators charges for their boxes & cards.
Plus we haven't even talked about the Mini's which actually improves the economics in favor of the Roamio.

I fully expect your numbers & my expanded expectations to be in line.


----------



## aaronwt

Aero 1 said:


> they just hit amazon with immediate delivery. looks like they are going quick.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=roamio&tag=primeplugin-20&rh=p_85:1


Sweet!! If Amazon has them then hopefully BestBuy gets them soon too. I'm going to wait until Labor day weekend to see if BestBuy has a 10% coupon. I doubt it though since they don't send them out like they used too, but I figure I might as well wait just in case.


----------



## aaronwt

Aero 1 said:


> picture of the power brick on the 4 tuner roamio


I wish all of the Roamio models used an external power supply.


----------



## sbiller

brentil said:


> The 4 tuner device uses the Broadcom 7425 where the 6 tuner devices use Broadcom 7429. The only difference is the lack of integrated transcoding hardware on the 7425.


TiVo decided to stick with the TiVo Streams Zenverge quad transcoder chip versus using the integrated dual-transcoding of the BCM7425. I think the chip is a BCM7421.


----------



## jcthorne

Well, I will figure out the component connections some how and report back since Tivo, the reviews and all here seem to have varying information. I just ordered one from Amazon for delivery tomorrow. If it works out in my setup after a few days of fiddling to get outputs, remotes, networking etc all going I will put a lifetime sub on it. If not, it can go back within 30 days.

If it does work well, I would like to then try a mini with it and start the process of replacing some of my premieres with mini's. Particularly when new features become available only to current gen hardware.


----------



## Aero 1

aaronwt said:


> I wish all of the Roamio models used an external power supply.


yea, im liking that too. thankfully thats the Roamio that i need.


----------



## trip1eX

Aero 1 said:


> picture of the power brick on the 4 tuner roamio


Ok. I like the bricks that sit on the floor better though.


----------



## NoVa

mike123abc said:


> Considering that there is not a broadcast or cable standard yet, much less HDMI that can truly handle UHD yet, I do not think it will show itself in the next 4-5 years on most cable systems.


Agreed.
Like it was mentioned above, TV networks/stations are just now wrapping up the digital rollout that came about in the early 2000's & most households are just now filling the landfills with tube tv's.

So almost 10+ years from the time HDTV was rolled out till what is now common place...


----------



## brentil

Aero 1 said:


> they just hit amazon with immediate delivery. looks like they are going quick.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=roamio&tag=primeplugin-20&rh=p_85:1


The plus is now sold out on Amazon, the Pro has 3 units left, and the 4 Tuner doesn't have a stock shortage yet.


----------



## aaronwt

sbiller said:


> TiVo decided to stick with the TiVo Streams Zenverge quad transcoder chip versus using the integrated dual-transcoding of the BCM7425. I think the chip is a BCM7421.


If so that sounds like it migth be better since the specs seem to bemor powerful with the BCM7421(or maybe the 7425 description just doesn't have the deatial that the 7421 has?)

http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Cable-Set-Top-Box-Solutions/BCM7421



> Features
> 
> -The ultra-high performance BRCM 5000 MIPS-based applications processor with 3000 DMIPS of applications processing performance supported by unique and powerful 2D and OpenGL ES 2.0 3D GPU's to further enhance web-based software platforms
> 
> -Distinctive distributed processing set-top box architecture featuring an additional 3000 DMIPS (total of 6000) of multiple high-performance sub-system processors and hardware
> 
> - Lower power and higher performance 40nm CMOS silicon technology and integrates an intelligent power management processor to minimize STB power consumption
> 
> -The MPEG industry standard, SVC, that supports full-resolution HD 3DTV, and also enables a 40 percent bandwidth savings for backward-compatible 1080p60/50 sports content distribution to new and legacy STBs
> 
> -Customized high performance (430MHz) VLIW (very long instructional word) DSP (digital signal processing) used mainly for audio processing
> 
> -A broad array of time-to-market web-based connected home STB software applications including Adobe Flash® Platform for TV, Webkits HMTL 5.0, Java, Qt, DLNA 1.5, and DirectFB application libraries
> 
> - Unique HD FastRTV channel change acceleration technology that improves channel change speeds by up to 500 percent


----------



## dswallow

Aero 1 said:


> they just hit amazon with immediate delivery. looks like they are going quick.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=roamio&tag=primeplugin-20&rh=p_85:1


It's so much easier to buy from Amazon. Click click click, bought and will be here tomorrow. Thanks! (Or maybe damn you!) 

There's 3 Roamio Pro's left after I placed my order.


----------



## randywalters

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The breakout cable pack he showed you is for the Mini. The Roamio-4 apparently only has one breakout port, suggesting it might be composite-out only. So you may need an hdmi-to-whatever adapter for your needs unless Tivo produces a new breakout cable that carries component + audio just for the Roamio.


That breakout cable jack is indeed Composite (not Component).

"You can also use composite cables to connect to your TV
(cables sold separately)"

One more reason why the ATSC Roamio won't work for me (i use Component to feed a 13" LED HD monitor on my desk).


----------



## Surrealone

Will the roamio need a tuning adapter?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

The BCM7421 sounds like the 7425, just sans MoCA and transcoding.

A bit of a head-scratcher to go with discreet hardware, but whatever works.


----------



## Aero 1

according to zatz, get a free tivo stream with the purchase of a base roamio


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/369859923628130304


----------



## aaronwt

Aero 1 said:


> according to zatz, get a free tivo stream with the purchase of a base roamio
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/369859923628130304


That sounds like a sweet deal for the people interested in the four tuner Roamio.


----------



## Philmatic

Surrealone said:


> Will the roamio need a tuning adapter?


Asked and answered, search the various threads for your answer.


----------



## Surrealone

bofis said:


> So wait, can the base Roamio box only do 4-tuners OTA Antenna OR 4-tuners cable with cablecards and not some combination of the two like my Series 3, which presently can record only 2 shows at once, but that can be two over antenna, two over cable, or one over each.
> 
> Separately, I'm very sad TiVo never saw the real value in the OLED screen on the Series 3, I LOVE LOVE LOVE being able to glance at my TiVo while my setup is off and see exactly what shows are recording.


I also LOVE LOVE LOVE my s3's for the same reason not sure why TiVo made that go away


----------



## brentil

sbiller said:


> TiVo decided to stick with the TiVo Streams Zenverge quad transcoder chip versus using the integrated dual-transcoding of the BCM7425. I think the chip is a BCM7421.


That's possible, the direct source we have for the BCM7425 is the older 2.1 source code which has references to it. That source is over a year old now though.



aaronwt said:


> If so that sounds like it migth be better since the specs seem to bemor powerful with the BCM7421(or maybe the 7425 description just doesn't have the deatial that the 7421 has?)
> 
> http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Cable-Set-Top-Box-Solutions/BCM7421


The BCM7425 and BCM7421 are based off the same 1.3 GHz Zypher multi-core CPU architecture so they both push 3000 DMIPS of CPU speed. However the BCM7421 seems to have a bunch of extra functionality built in as it mentions an additional 3000 DMIPS of processing power from multiple other sub systems.


----------



## Philmatic

Surrealone said:


> I also LOVE LOVE LOVE my s3's for the same reason not sure why TiVo made that go away


The market for people who need both OTA and Cable at the same time is minuscule.


----------



## Surrealone

Philmatic said:


> Asked and answered, search the various threads for your answer.


Ok thanks for the help(NOT)and yes I did do a search. I have not found the thread real help would post a link to the thread. But I will keep searching


----------



## pdxrunr

FYI, just ordered a Pro directly from Tivo phone rep. They are shipping immediately from their TX warehouse!


----------



## waterchange

Grakthis said:


> While that's true, you should compare the TiVo mini + Tivo WITHOUT lifetime to a Tivo mini + Tivo WITH lifetime, and you'll find that the WITHOUT lifetime breaks even MUCH faster than the one with.
> 
> So, while the mini is surely a net saver over cable company boxes, it's not a reason to lifetime the TiVo.


As long as you consider the resale value of the lifetime Tivo + lifetime Mini in the analysis, I'd have to believe that you'd always come out ahead with lifetime.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Surrealone said:


> Ok thanks for the help(NOT)and yes I did do a search. I have not found the thread real help would post a link to the thread. But I will keep searching


yes it needs a tuner adapter.


----------



## Zaphod

Philmatic said:


> It doesn't, they removed the OTA decoder to add two more Cable tuners. Additionally they did research and the market for people who want *six* Cable tuners *and* OTA is minuscule. Similarly, they market for people who want both OTA and Cable at the same time is minuscule, which is why the base Roamio only allows one or the other, but has the benefit of 4 full tuners.


I guess I'm in that miniscule few. I use digital cable for the cable channels I can only get on cable, but my cable has gone out too many times right in the middle of recording an "important" show (season finale of Survivor, some pivotal episode of some other show, something you're not likely to get a rerun of anytim soon, just happened again a couple of months ago), so I record everything off the normal networks off my local OTA channels. At least if the cable goes out, the OTA still works.

I have two Tivo HD's, one with Lifetime, one with $6.95 special discount monthly. Both upgraded to 1 TB drives. The only real reason I want to upgrade is to have 4 tuners on one unit so I don't have to try to sort out scheduling manually (I have missed shows before because something changed time slots and ended up with 3 shows at once on one unit). But I'm not willing to give up my OTA to get it.

I was initially ready to jump on the Premiere XL4 until I saw no OTA support. I saw the initial information on Rovio that just in general said OTA support, but then I read the details. Even the low end model doesn't support both at the same time.

I'll pass.


----------



## jcthorne

randywalters said:


> That breakout cable jack is indeed Composite (not Component).
> 
> "You can also use composite cables to connect to your TV
> (cables sold separately)"
> 
> One more reason why the ATSC Roamio won't work for me (i use Component to feed a 13" LED HD monitor on my desk).


Yeah but the web site says the plus and pro only support composite as well.


----------



## DigitalDawn

Let's say I had a Premiere XL4 plus the new 6-Tuner Roamio Pro. If I wanted to attach two Mini's to the XL4 and 2 Minis to the Roamio, would they all be available on the same network? In other words, could I view Roamio shows via the XL4 Minis and XL4 shows via Roamio attached Minis?


----------



## atsang

aaronwt said:


> That sounds like a sweet deal for the people interested in the four tuner Roamio.


Code doesnt work


----------



## Philmatic

DigitalDawn said:


> Let's say I had a Premiere XL4 plus the new 6-Tuner Roamio Pro. If I wanted to attach two Mini's to the XL4 and 2 Minis to the Roamio, would they all be available on the same network? In other words, could I view Roamio shows via the XL4 Minis and XL4 shows via Roamio attached Minis?


Yes... the "paring" only applies to the Live TV aspect and the default list of shows. You will always see all TiVo DVRs at the bottom of your "My Shows" list and you can stream any show from any TiVo.


----------



## hangtime79

Just grabbed the last Pro unit from Amazon. Unfortunately it says not to expect shipment for 1 to 3 weeks.


----------



## aindik

Grakthis said:


> While that's true, you should compare the TiVo mini + Tivo WITHOUT lifetime to a Tivo mini + Tivo WITH lifetime, and you'll find that the WITHOUT lifetime breaks even MUCH faster than the one with.
> 
> So, while the mini is surely a net saver over cable company boxes, it's not a reason to lifetime the TiVo.


TiVo with lifetime (MSD) pays for itself in 31 months. I intend to keep the unit longer than that. My current TiVo is on month number 72 or so.


----------



## brianric

series5orpremier said:


> It only lasts 1-2 years before it fails and erases all your recordings. It's like flushing money down the toilet.


I have two Tivos, one bought in 2002, second one in 2010. Both are working fine, only had to replace a fan in second Tivo.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

jcthorne said:


> Yeah but the web site says the plus and pro only support composite as well.


If it says that it's wrong. Component-out is in the Plus/Pro pictures.


----------



## jcthorne

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If it says that it's wrong. Component-out is in the Plus/Pro pictures.


Would not be the first port on the back of a TiVo that was non-functional.

The av port on the base unit may support component as well. No one knows.


----------



## elwaylite

Aero 1 said:


> yea, im liking that too. thankfully thats the Roamio that i need.


Whats the benefit of the power adapter on the base model? If it fails you just replace the cord?

Im happy about the size just looking at the remote, I can probably fit the Tivo and EHD on the same shelf.


----------



## tgrad

cwoody222 said:


> No Amazon streaming still? New apps for Netflix and Hulu Plus are nice and could mean I could almost eliminate my Roku (still need it for .mkv streaming...


Can't you use Streambaby to stream .mkv files. I am pretty sure that format is supported.


----------



## b_scott

elwaylite said:


> Whats the benefit of the power adapter on the base model? If it fails you just replace the cord?
> 
> Im happy about the size just looking at the remote, I can probably fit the Tivo and EHD on the same shelf.


some people like built in PSU, some like bricks. who knows. It makes no difference except that brick would be harder to plug into some power strips


----------



## Aero 1

elwaylite said:


> Whats the benefit of the power adapter on the base model? If it fails you just replace the cord?
> 
> Im happy about the size just looking at the remote, I can probably fit the Tivo and EHD on the same shelf.


the cord is not the thing that breaks, its the internal power supply that you should worry about. if it goes, its not as easy to replace like a power brick.


----------



## elwaylite

Aero 1 said:


> the cord is not the thing that breaks, its the internal power supply that you should worry about. if it goes, its not as easy to replace like a power brick.


Sorry, thats what I meant. So with this design if the brick fails you could replace the external part?

I always keep my dvr's plugged into a UPS and have been very lucky so far with durability.


----------



## b_scott

elwaylite said:


> Sorry, thats what I meant. So with this design if the brick fails you could replace the external part?
> 
> I always keep my dvr's plugged into a UPS and have been very lucky so far with durability.


same. never had a PSU issue.


----------



## bdraw

Fofer said:


> Huh?
> 
> So which is it? Why the discrepancy in the reporting here?
> 
> And if the version Nilay saw still had incomplete HDUI, and the FAQ states differently, does that mean it just took a weekend and finished it already? And why did Denney have to "have that conversation with the engineering team all the time?" Maybe if he spent less time "having the conversation" and just finishing it as a priority already, it would have been done years ago.


Everything is HD in the UI except a few of the settings screens like video and remotes & devices. This annoys Nilay, but not me. As long as all the screens that I use with any kind of regularity are in HD, who cares?


----------



## dswallow

bdraw said:


> Everything is HD in the UI except a few of the settings screens like video and remotes & devices. This annoys Nilay, but not me. As long as all the screens that I use with any kind of regularity are in HD, who cares?


It shouldn't appear to be so hard to address something that should be so simple to do. Most of this is plain text and icons, which should be easy to do since functionally these sorts of things should be implemented as some fashion of a reusable object since the basic methods are used throughout the HD UI. It's part of what I would call the "fit & finish" of a product. It may not matter to the overall operation that much, but it's still something "unfinished."

It's also something that is an oft-recurring complaint, which in general is very bad PR for the company. How often do we generally talk of TiVo being slowwwww to do anything these days... 'I mean even the HD UI isn't finished THREE YEARS after it was introduced'. If nothing else, it is indicative of how much TiVo cares about their software and the perception of their capabilities. That can translate to potential customers putting off future purchases until they determine "everything is actually finished" this time, for instance.


----------



## zgamer

Anyone know if any of the Roamio models support analog cable?


----------



## Tico

elwaylite said:


> Whats the benefit of the power adapter on the base model? If it fails you just replace the cord?
> 
> Im happy about the size just looking at the remote, I can probably fit the Tivo and EHD on the same shelf.


I like it for nothing else than less heat in the box!

Heat kills HardDrives


----------



## Aero 1

4-Tuner Roamio Start Here Poster:

http://support.tivo.com/ci/fattach/get/81846/1376982741/redirect/1

Roamio Plus/Pro Start Here Poster:

http://support.tivo.com/ci/fattach/get/81847/1376983511/redirect/1


----------



## elwaylite

Tico said:


> I like it for nothing else than less heat in the box!
> 
> Heat kills HardDrives


Also a very good point. Ive noticed the external bricks on a lot of these newer, smaller DVR's and set top boxes.


----------



## Tico

elwaylite said:


> Also a very good point. Ive noticed the external bricks on a lot of these newer, smaller DVR's and set top boxes.


Yup, Except I just noticed no Fan on Base...

Hopefully it stays cool enough.


----------



## elwaylite

Thats what Ive been seeing, no fan and external brick. As long as its designed well should be OK. We will know when people start checking the current HDD temp


----------



## b_scott

Tico said:


> I like it for nothing else than less heat in the box!
> 
> Heat kills HardDrives


tell that to the PS4.

I'm sure the Tivos will be fine.


----------



## tivogurl

Only the four-tuner model has an external power supply? The six-tuner models have internal power supplies?


----------



## zgamer

zgamer said:


> Anyone know if any of the Roamio models support analog cable?


...After some digging...

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2013/db0809/DA-13-1740A1.pdf

FCC granted Tivo a waiver for NTSC and analog cable support. IE, there is no support.


----------



## Sevenfeet

The ROI argument has been interesting to read here. I can understand some of the handwringing from Premiere owners who are wondering if they should pony up for the new units and features. But I'm a Series 2 OLED owner (two units) with Lifetime. I think it's safe to say that since 2007, I've gotten my ROI out of my units. I began with the original Series 1 Sony unit in July 1999 and skipped the Series 2. Now with the Series 4 effectively skipped, I have a decision to make.

I just put a new hard drive (well, not new...I had it around) in one of my OLED units after it failed a few months ago and I wonder how long the other one will last. At one point Comcast charged for cablecards in my neck of the woods and now I'm getting credited for it in "customer owned equipment" (not sure what that means...do I own the cablecards now?)

I could easily see going from a two Tivo household down to a single 6 tuner setup with Tivo Minis...it makes more sense for that anyway, especially if Minis can take a tuner dynamically now. $600 for a new Tivo is a bit high (especially since the difference between a 1TB HD and a 3 TB HD is hardly $200 these days) but in five years, it'll probably work itself out in cost.

I'm not as bent out of shape about 4K support. Without H.265 on the chip level for Tivo to use on the mainboard, it's a moot point. That standard is only now starting to reach silicon and Tivo had a product to ship. Not to mention that the number of 4K sets in consumers hands has to measure in the hundreds, if not low thousands. Next year the price will come down some more and maybe Apple will enter the market. By the time it becomes a thing that the majority of TV buyers are looking for, it will be 3-4 years out and we'll be talking about Series 6 (Juliet?)


----------



## ilovedvrs

Yes, 4k support. Huge improvement. would've loved if this had it.
but you still have a few years (tivo is slow and they don't do bleeding edge)...

My Roamio is going to be connected to my Xbox One, upsampled to 4k


----------



## b_scott

ilovedvrs said:


> Yes, 4k support. Huge improvement. would've loved if this had it.
> but you still have a few years (tivo is slow and they don't do bleeding edge)...
> 
> My Roamio is going to be connected to my Xbox One, upsampled to 4k


you have a 4K tv?


----------



## Tico

b_scott said:


> tell that to the PS4.
> 
> I'm sure the Tivos will be fine.


I don't get your statement.

Sure they will be fine, But the less heat the better.


----------



## bayern_fan

ilovedvrs said:


> Yes, 4k support. Huge improvement. would've loved if this had it.
> but you still have a few years (tivo is slow and they don't do bleeding edge)...
> 
> My Roamio is going to be connected to my Xbox One, upsampled to 4k


Might be a silly question, but can the PS4 do this as well?


----------



## b_scott

Tico said:


> I don't get your statement.
> 
> Sure they will be fine, But the less heat the better.


it only matters if it works without failing. If it does, it's a moot point. I don't think that they haven't tested these boxes (same as the small PS4 w/internal, which would be generating much more heat)


----------



## Grakthis

Sevenfeet said:


> The ROI argument has been interesting to read here. I can understand some of the handwringing from Premiere owners who are wondering if they should pony up for the new units and features. But I'm a Series 2 OLED owner (two units) with Lifetime. I think it's safe to say that since 2007, I've gotten my ROI out of my units. I began with the original Series 1 Sony unit in July 1999 and skipped the Series 2. Now with the Series 4 effectively skipped, I have a decision to make.


Yeah, I had a S2 sans the LEDs that lasted me for almost 8 years, until HD TV showed up and basically made my analog box worthless. It still sat there and recorded some analog stuff for me for like 2 years even after I had my S3 (which is still running great today). My lifetime on that S2 paid back 10-times over.

Those S2's were a different era, though. Analog TV was a beautiful world of simple channel changing and universal standards and all kinds of goodness we may never see again.

I didn't get lifetime on my S3 because it was the era of $5.99 MSD, which was grandfathered on to it. Even having had it for 6ish years now (I bought the first run), I would just barely have made back the lifetime price.

These days TIVo is going with a subsidized hardware model with higher monthly fees. No more $800's for 2 tuners and 500GB HD that requires 2 cable cards. Now it's 200 for 4 tuners and a TB. But they get it back from you in the monthly fees. Which is why it's making more and more sense to treat the hardware as disposable... don't invest too much in the box and just pay the monthly fee.


----------



## b_scott

bayern_fan said:


> Might be a silly question, but can the PS4 do this as well?


no, PS4 has no input for TV.

However, there hasn't been any confirmation that Tivo will work with the Xbox's guide data, etc - especially since the Roamio doesn't use CEC.


----------



## b_scott

Grakthis said:


> These days TIVo is going with a subsidized hardware model with higher monthly fees. No more $800's for 2 tuners and 500GB HD that requires 2 cable cards. Now it's 200 for 4 tuners and a TB. But they get it back from you in the monthly fees. Which is why it's making more and more sense to treat the hardware as disposable... don't invest too much in the box and just pay the monthly fee.


yeah that's kinda my feeling too. I was considering selling my PXL and P, both with lifetime, and buying a Roamio Plus and Tivo Mini. however all that will get me is 2 extra tuners that I don't need, wifi that I don't need, and a speedier interface (which I would like, admittedly). Then I would put the profits into holding for monthly subscription costs.


----------



## Grakthis

b_scott said:


> yeah that's kinda my feeling too. I was considering selling my PXL and P, both with lifetime, and buying a Roamio Plus and Tivo Mini. however all that will get me is 2 extra tuners that I don't need, wifi that I don't need, and a speedier interface (which I would like, admittedly). Then I would put the profits into holding for monthly subscription costs.


Well, treat the 2 extra tuners as "more TVs in waiting."

Want to add a TV to another room? Now all it costs you is the TV and $150 for the mini. No monthly fees. That's nice in this era of 10-20 dollar per month fees for tuner boxes from the CC.

TWC just bought up Insight, which is who we used to have here. So all of us former insight customers are paying about half of what the standard TWC customer is paying for the hardware. Someday, TWC is going to veto that arrangement and want us to pay the higher box prices... and when they do, there's going to be a HUGE market for TiVos here from people who don't want to hear that their DVR box is going from 12.99 to 22.99 for 0 additional features.

I don't know how this kind of pricing is on other providers, but even TWCs whole-home box is 35.00 + 10 for each additional TV. That's 55 a month for 3 TVs. TWC is making a compelling argument for Tivo!


----------



## b_scott

well, we don't have any other room for TVs... haha.

The Mini costs $99, but also $150 more for lifetime. So, $250.


----------



## Sevenfeet

Grakthis said:


> Yeah, I had a S2 sans the LEDs that lasted me for almost 8 years, until HD TV showed up and basically made my analog box worthless. It still sat there and recorded some analog stuff for me for like 2 years even after I had my S3 (which is still running great today). My lifetime on that S2 paid back 10-times over.
> 
> Those S2's were a different era, though. Analog TV was a beautiful world of simple channel changing and universal standards and all kinds of goodness we may never see again.
> 
> I didn't get lifetime on my S3 because it was the era of $5.99 MSD, which was grandfathered on to it. Even having had it for 6ish years now (I bought the first run), I would just barely have made back the lifetime price.
> 
> These days TIVo is going with a subsidized hardware model with higher monthly fees. No more $800's for 2 tuners and 500GB HD that requires 2 cable cards. Now it's 200 for 4 tuners and a TB. But they get it back from you in the monthly fees. Which is why it's making more and more sense to treat the hardware as disposable... don't invest too much in the box and just pay the monthly fee.


Sorry, I meant to say Series 3 OLED, not Series 2.

I had forgotten I'd paid nearly $700 for the original S3s way back when. Buying two at that time was expensive but again, a sunk cost into 2007.

Thank goodness for wireless Ethernet finally but I had my house wired for GigEthernet partially to handle the awful throughput for trading a show between my two Series 3 over wireless.


----------



## tivogurl

Grakthis said:


> I didn't get lifetime on my S3 because it was the era of $5.99 MSD, which was grandfathered on to it.


I have that on my TiVoHD. It will be a shame when I get rid of it.


Grakthis said:


> These days TIVo is going with a subsidized hardware model with higher monthly fees. No more $800's for 2 tuners and 500GB HD that requires 2 cable cards. Now it's 200 for 4 tuners and a TB.


The four-tuner Roamio still has a 500GB HD, not 1TB. Lame considering today's drive capacities and prices. The problem is upgrades cost the full-retail price of a new drive and then some, rather than just the marginal price difference between a 500GB and 1TB drive (which is minimal). I'd really prefer the four to the six if its drive wasn't so tiny.


----------



## bofis

tivogurl said:


> I have that on my TiVoHD. It will be a shame when I get rid of it.
> 
> The four-tuner Roamio still has a 500GB HD, not 1TB. Lame considering today's drive capacities and prices. The problem is upgrades cost the full-retail price of a new drive and then some, rather than just the marginal price difference between a 500GB and 1TB drive (which is minimal). I'd really prefer the four to the six if its drive wasn't so tiny.


I agree with you...I upgraded my Series 3's drive to a 1TB internally when it's original drive died and I really have no desire to drop down to something smaller. They should really offer an upgraded 4-tuner OTA/cable Roamio with a 1-2TB drive inside.

Though: can anyone really confirm if the Roamio can or cannot record antenna and cable at the same time??!


----------



## MeInDallas

Tom Rogers on Fox Business a little bit ago.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2619104487001/tivo-ceo-roamio-is-apple-tv-google-tv-netflix-all-in-one/


----------



## kb7oeb

Philmatic said:


> It doesn't, they removed the OTA decoder to add two more Cable tuners.


That is conjecture.

Just like previous models that support OTA QAM and 8-VSB (the modulation used by ATSC) is received on the same tuner.

It doesn't matter though because in the end it doesn't work with OTA and the new OTA model isn't enough of a carrot to get me to upgrade. I'd have gone with the middle option for the streaming.


----------



## tatergator1

bofis said:


> Though: can anyone really confirm if the Roamio can or cannot record antenna and cable at the same time??!


This has been asked an answered several times on the forum today. The 4-tuner Roamio base model is either 4 OTA or 4 Digital Cable tuners. They are not interoperable.


----------



## Fofer

bdraw said:


> Everything is HD in the UI except a few of the settings screens like video and remotes & devices.


Is that still the case with the Roamio, though?

I know they eliminated the SD UI, but did the also COMPLETE the HD UI in the "revamped" interface?

I've learned not to assume *anything* with TiVo.


----------



## Dan203

From the reviews it sounds like some of the settings screens are still SD, but they updated them slightly to mimic the new look. However it looks like the rest of the UI was finally updated to HD. But I think Wish Lists and Browse By Time/Channel are the only screens not in the settings section that hadn't been updated yet anyway, so really they just added a few more HD screens like they have in every update since the Premiere release.


----------



## jcthorne

Wonder if the HME screens are HD now? Will find out tomorrow.


----------



## NYHeel

Dan203 said:


> From the reviews it sounds like some of the settings screens are still SD, but they updated them slightly to mimic the new look. However it looks like the rest of the UI was finally updated to HD. But I think Wish Lists and Browse By Time/Channel are the only screens not in the settings section that hadn't been updated yet anyway, so really they just added a few more HD screens like they have in every update since the Premiere release.


What, you mean you don't like the pace of 1 screen updated per 6 months?


----------



## Balzer

cncb said:


> Is there any word whether these can play additional file formats from a PC like MKV? Also, very disappointed that the lifetime fee has gone up from $400 to $500 for new customers?


Not sure if anyone answered this, since I'm not caught up in the thread yet.... But I can currently transfer .mkv files from my PC to Tivo Premiere, using Tivo Desktop. I had to install a couple of filters/codecs on the PC to make it work though. I assume I will be able to do the same thing with the Roamio when I get one..


----------



## NYHeel

jcthorne said:


> Wonder if the HME screens are HD now? Will find out tomorrow.


I don't think they've been updated. I found some pictures buried on Tivo's site about the Roamio and it was the same old screens for personal music and pictures.


----------



## bradleys

NYHeel said:


> I don't think they've been updated. I found some pictures buried on Tivo's site about the Roamio and it was the same old screens for personal music and pictures.


And I do not think they ever will be. I expect that functionality will be replaced in the future with HTML5 apps. Those screens would be retired. - Seed apps for the future TiVo App Store.

About time too, I always thought they were terrible and almost hidden away like a forgetten step child!


----------



## Aero 1

MeInDallas said:


> Tom Rogers on Fox Business a little bit ago.
> 
> http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2619104487001/tivo-ceo-roamio-is-apple-tv-google-tv-netflix-all-in-one/


either we are all misinformed or the CEO has no idea what he is talking about. at the end he says you wont have to miss football because you can bring your ATSC tuner into your cable lineup.


----------



## Philmatic

zgamer said:


> Anyone know if any of the Roamio models support analog cable?


No, it does not: https://www.tivo.com/shop/roamio#tab4



tivogurl said:


> Only the four-tuner model has an external power supply? The six-tuner models have internal power supplies?


Correct.



ilovedvrs said:


> Yes, 4k support. Huge improvement. would've loved if this had it.
> but you still have a few years (tivo is slow and they don't do bleeding edge)...
> 
> My Roamio is going to be connected to my Xbox One, upsampled to 4k


What would 4K gain you? There is not a single OTA or Cable broadcast that is done in 4K. Netflix is rumored to do some 4K stuff in about a year, but that would hardly necessitate the need to build in 4K support for the output of the Roamio line.


----------



## dswallow

MeInDallas said:


> Tom Rogers on Fox Business a little bit ago.
> 
> http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2619104487001/tivo-ceo-roamio-is-apple-tv-google-tv-netflix-all-in-one/


Comparing it to two failed products and a company that pissed off every single customer with a subscription cost split/change they had to backpedal over -- great comparison, Tom.


----------



## MeInDallas

Aero 1 said:


> either we are all misinformed or the CEO has no idea what he is talking about. at the end he says you wont have to miss football because you can bring your ATSC tuner into your cable lineup.


I noticed that too, I was wondering if anyone else caught that! I think he's been on a lot of the business shows today, maybe he was tired 

I did like seeing the base model up next to the Pro to kind of get an idea of the size of it. I do like they way they look, just not the name, oh well.


----------



## ilovedvrs

b_scott said:


> you have a 4K tv?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=B00BXF7I9M&linkCode=as2&tag=microsoftmous-20

50 inch 4k TV $1,115.30

Both the Xbox One and PS4 are 4k.
Most new ble-ray payers are 4k. You can buy 4k movies on amazon.
Most new receivers are 4k.

Both Xbox One and PS4 will have 4K netflix. Just like they have some 3d streams now..

My last Tivo S3 HD lasted 7 years. 7 years from now 4k will be normal.


----------



## dswallow

ilovedvrs said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=B00BXF7I9M&linkCode=as2&tag=microsoftmous-20
> 
> 50 inch 4k TV $1,115.30
> 
> Both the Xbox One and PS4 are 4k.
> Most new ble-ray payers are 4k. You can buy 4k movies on amazon.
> Most new receivers are 4k.


Is there a cable company or OTA source for 4K content? If not, probably no good reason for TiVo to support it yet.


----------



## Philmatic

The Fox interview also mistakenly identifies the Roamio Plus as having 5 tuners. 

"Android will be available shortly, for roaming, this lights up the Roamio feature this fall".


----------



## tivogurl

Roamio Plus has 5 tuners? Fox screwed that bit up.


----------



## dswallow

dswallow said:


> It's so much easier to buy from Amazon. Click click click, bought and will be here tomorrow. Thanks! (Or maybe damn you!)
> 
> There's 3 Roamio Pro's left after I placed my order.


Shipped from Chattanooga, TN by FedEx.


----------



## dswallow

tivogurl said:


> Roamio Plus has 5 tuners? Fox screwed that bit up.


Well, technically, it does have 5 tuners.


----------



## Philmatic

ilovedvrs said:


> Both the Xbox One and PS4 are 4k.


Sure


ilovedvrs said:


> Most new ble-ray payers are 4k. You can buy 4k movies on amazon.


No they aren't and no you can't


ilovedvrs said:


> Most new receivers are 4k.


No they aren't, read the specifications.


ilovedvrs said:


> My last Tivo S3 HD lasted 7 years. 7 years from now 4k will be normal.


No it won't, the standard for at least the next 15-20 years will be 720p/1080i because that is what broadcast tv is locked to. 1080p/4k will only be available on very specific Cable channels and through OTT services like Netflix & YouTube.

You want 4k just to say you have 4k, you don't understand the ramifications or the implementation of the technology.


----------



## tivogurl

dswallow said:


> Well, technically, it does have 5 tuners.


True, but that would be like describing a car as having 3 wheels.


----------



## jmpage2

Are infrared remotes still supported? I'm rather fond of my Harmony One.


----------



## dswallow

tivogurl said:


> True, but that would be like describing a car as having 3 wheels.


Most cars have 5 wheels.


----------



## Fofer

jmpage2 said:


> Are infrared remotes still supported?


Yes.


----------



## Philmatic

jmpage2 said:


> Are infrared remotes still supported? I'm rather fond of my Harmony One.


Yes, all three models have a built-in IR receiver. It's just the the RF remote is standard.


----------



## ireposit

tivogurl said:


> Roamio Plus has 5 tuners? Fox screwed that bit up.


duh - you were watching fox weren't you ?


----------



## Fofer

dswallow said:


> Most cars have 5 wheels.


Right, and offering that as an "answer" is just as disingenuous and misleading as saying "the Roamio Plus has 5 tuners." You know what the listener is expecting and slyly explaining it away as "technically correct" misses the point entirely.


----------



## dswallow

Fofer said:


> Right, and offering that as an "answer" is just as disingenuous and misleading as saying "the Roamio Plus has 5 tuners." You know what the listener is expecting and slyly explaining it away as "technically correct" misses the point entirely.


I was just trying to be a good FOX apologist. Don't hit me!


----------



## atmuscarella

ilovedvrs said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=B00BXF7I9M&linkCode=as2&tag=microsoftmous-20
> 
> 50 inch 4k TV $1,115.30
> 
> Both the Xbox One and PS4 are 4k.
> Most new ble-ray payers are 4k. You can buy 4k movies on amazon.
> Most new receivers are 4k.
> 
> Both Xbox One and PS4 will have 4K netflix. Just like they have some 3d streams now..
> 
> My last Tivo S3 HD lasted 7 years. 7 years from now 4k will be normal.


While I do believe 4k is the future you can not buy 4k movies on amazon. Read more closely the Movies were filmed or mastered in 4k but what you are buying is a 1080p blu-ray.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dmovies-tv&field-keywords=4k​
My understanding is that some of the new movies are actually filmed in 8k now.


----------



## MScottC

In spite of the lack of OTA I decided to replace my grandfathered Series 1 (Phillips) and my Series 3 (OLED) with a Roamio Plus and a Mini. 
I called TiVo and explained that I had the pre 2000 grandfathered TiVo. The sales agent said I could not however transfer my lifetime to the Roamio... WHOA. After checking with a supervisor, he came back on and said, I could only transfer my lifetime to a "standalone unit," or one that I purchased without a subscription, either monthly or lifetime, and the only units they are selling that way are Premiers. Eventually the clerk said if I went to Best Buy and purchased the unit I could then call in and transfer my service. He gave me a case number to reference the current call. No Best Buy in my area has them, so I checked Amazon, they're out. Next stop, Weaknees... yes, in stock, free shipping, no tax. So a Roamio Plus and a Mini are on the way. Next week I'll transfer my lifetime from the S1, buy lifetime on the mini, and swap it all out. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't run into any other issues and I'll be retiring an almost 14 year old TiVo.


----------



## trip1eX

ilovedvrs said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=B00BXF7I9M&linkCode=as2&tag=microsoftmous-20
> 
> 50 inch 4k TV $1,115.30
> 
> Both the Xbox One and PS4 are 4k.
> Most new ble-ray payers are 4k. You can buy 4k movies on amazon.
> Most new receivers are 4k.
> 
> Both Xbox One and PS4 will have 4K netflix. Just like they have some 3d streams now..
> 
> My last Tivo S3 HD lasted 7 years. 7 years from now 4k will be normal.


4k won't get the same traction as the original jump to HD did.

On normal viewing distances you won't even see the difference on many standard size tvs. Hell on 42" tvs your eye can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p from 8'-10' away. The jump won't be nearly as good as it was from sd to hd.

And let's face it - the other big attraction of the jump to hd from sd was dramatically increasing the size of your tv screen while reducing its weight and footprint. This won't be a selling point with the move to 4k.

I expect a very slow burn.

Plus resolution is oversold. Higher res doesn't mean better picture even if you are at a distance and screen size where your eye can make out the different number of pixels. I have a 720p plasma set in the basement that I bet still beats most 1080p lcds in picture quality.


----------



## Fofer

TiVo should release tools to do a complete (and automated) migration of all recorded shows from one TiVo to a newer one. That my current Premiere is chock-full of many, many recordings, that I'd never be able (or interested in taking the time) to manually transfer over is a roadblock for me, and paying even $600 (for an "upgrade") only to lose out on them is a tough pill to swallow.


----------



## Fofer

Aero 1 said:


> according to zatz, get a free tivo stream with the purchase of a base roamio
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/369859923628130304





atsang said:


> Code doesnt work


Anyone else? Is this code just a scam?


----------



## waterchange

Fofer said:


> Anyone else? Is this code just a scam?


It's not a scam. See this thread.


----------



## Philmatic

It's not a scam, it's an official partnership:

Announcement: http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/g...-and-movies-fron-nasdaq-tivo-1043974?feed=All
Website: http://www.tivogrouper.com/


----------



## Dan203

dswallow said:


> Well, technically, it does have 5 tuners.


I'm sure I'm missing something, but how so?

I could see you saying it has 8, 4 cable 4 OTA, but how do you ever get to 5?


----------



## atmuscarella

trip1eX said:


> 4k won't get the same traction as the original jump to HD did.
> 
> On normal viewing distances you won't even see the difference on many standard size tvs. Hell on 42" tvs your eye can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p from 8'-10' away. The jump won't be nearly as good as it was from sd to hd.
> 
> And let's face it - the other big attraction of the jump to hd from sd was dramatically increasing the size of your tv screen while reducing its weight and footprint. This won't be a selling point with the move to 4k.
> 
> I expect a very slow burn.
> 
> Plus resolution is oversold. Higher res doesn't mean better picture even if you are at a distance and screen size where your eye can make out the different number of pixels. I have a 720p plasma set in the basement that I bet still beats most 1080p lcds in picture quality.


I agree with this but I expect 4k will be like 1080p vs720p. At first only the high end sets will be 4k but as time goes on more TVs will be 4k and eventually most TVs will be 4k.


----------



## ppartekim

bofis said:


> I agree with you...I upgraded my Series 3's drive to a 1TB internally when it's original drive died and I really have no desire to drop down to something smaller. They should really offer an upgraded 4-tuner OTA/cable Roamio with a 1-2TB drive inside.


I currently have two S3's w/Lifetime, and upgraded the internals with 1TB drives. I would love to swap those out with one Roamio 4-Tuner OTA since I do not (will never again) have cable/satellite/Uverse TV bill.

But, I need more than 500GB of storage, I am already pushing the basically 2TBs I already have via two S3's so, a single TB external is not going to cut it.

I wish there was a high-end 3TB/stream OTA model or at least maybe a build-to-order option. Hopefully, an upgrade path will be found...

Also, HDFury will handle the HDMI->Component problem. Granted, not cheap. But in my house I have my two S3's, AppleTV and Roku going through one HDMI switcher -> HDFury -> ZvBox180 -> Coax to all 9 TVs in my house.


----------



## Dan203

Fofer said:


> Anyone else? Is this code just a scam?


Not a scam, and actually quite a good deal. I'm surprised they are doing this off the bat since it basically eliminates one of the advantages of the Plus/Pro units.


----------



## dswallow

Dan203 said:


> I'm sure I'm missing something, but how so?
> 
> I could see you saying it has 8, 4 cable 4 OTA, but how do you ever get to 5?


They were talking about the Plus model. It has 6 tuners. It also has 5 tuners. It even has 4 tuners. As well as 3 tuners. It happens that it even has 2 tuners. And it also has 1 tuner. Follow?


----------



## Dan203

ppartekim said:


> I currently have two S3's w/Lifetime, and upgraded the internals with 1TB drives. I would love to swap those out with one Roamio 4-Tuner OTA since I do not (will never again) have cable/satellite/Uverse TV bill.
> 
> But, I need more than 500GB of storage, I am already pushing the basically 2TBs I already have via two S3's so, a single TB external is not going to cut it.
> 
> I wish there was a high-end 3TB/stream OTA model or at least maybe a build-to-order option. Hopefully, an upgrade path will be found...
> 
> Also, HDFury will handle the HDMI->Component problem. Granted, not cheap. But in my house I have my two S3's, AppleTV and Roku going through one HDMI switcher -> HDFury -> ZvBox180 -> Coax to all 9 TVs in my house.


Keep an eye on Weaknees.com. I'm sure they'll be selling upgraded Roamios as soon as they can figure out how to do it. Assuming it's even possible.


----------



## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> Keep an eye on Weaknees.com. I'm sure they'll be selling upgraded Roamios as soon as they can figure out how to do it. Assuming it's even possible.


I will *only* consider a Roamio if it's possible.


----------



## Dan203

dswallow said:


> They were talking about the Plus model. It has 6 tuners. It also has 5 tuners. It even has 4 tuners. As well as 3 tuners. It happens that it even has 2 tuners. And it also has 1 tuner. Follow?


I got you. I assumed they were referring to the 4 tuner unit.


----------



## Fofer

I'll beat the drum again... a $600 box in 2013 that apparently has an exclusive, revamped UI, but _still has non-HD user interface screens_...? It's practically surreal at this point. WTF, TiVo? Even from a PR standpoint, this makes you look terrible. MAKE IT A PRIORITY. Sheesh.


----------



## trip1eX

atmuscarella said:


> I agree with this but I expect 4k will be like 1080p vs720p. At first only the high end sets will be 4k but as time goes on more TVs will be 4k and eventually most TVs will be 4k.


Yeah that's what will happen most likely. 4k tvs will become the norm on the shelf eventually. And that's how people will end up with 4k tvs. But that's the slow burn I'm talking about.

The original jump to HD was about totally replacing every tv in your house with a flatscreen. It reduced clutter. It gave you a much better picture. Energy use was much better. You got new inputs. etc.

Much less incentive to get to 4k. You (the mainstream) are only going to get a 4k tv once they are the only thing on the shelf at the price you want to spend and you are only spending because your tv broke or you gave your old one to your kid.


----------



## trip1eX

Fofer said:


> I'll beat the drum again... a $600 box in 2013 that apparently has an exclusive, revamped UI, but _still has non-HD user interface screens_...? It's practically surreal at this point. WTF, TiVo? Even from a PR standpoint, this makes you look terrible. MAKE IT A PRIORITY. Sheesh.


What is more boggling is what could possibly be holding them back from doing something that seems so simple that an intern could do for free.


----------



## Dan203

We wont be seeing anything broadcast in 4K for many years to come. HVEC, the codec they plan to use to squeeze 4K signals into existing bandwidth limitations, is still a couple years from actually being usable. At this year's NAB we saw a ton of demos of HVEC encoders, none of them were production ready. Most said they were 12-18 months out, which means 2-3 years. And even then it'll be many more years before the cameras and other equipment catch up so shows can actually be shot in 4K.

In the short term the only true 4K content we'll see if from movies. They'll likely release an extension to the BD spec that will allow for 4K movies to be stored on triple layer BDs. But you'll still need a new, expensive, player to play them and I'm sure the discs will be more too. Broadcast 4k is at least 5 years out, probably more.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> What is more boggling is what could possibly be holding them back from doing something that seems so simple that an intern could do for free.


A lot of the screens that have come out have contained different functionality then their SD counterparts, so maybe they have to run every one through some sort of design team with focus groups, etc... before they pass them off to the developers? If not then I can't imagine what the heck is taking so long.


----------



## rainwater

ilovedvrs said:


> You can buy 4k movies on amazon.


No you can't. You can buy blu-ray movies that are mastered from the 4K source but they are 1080p at best.

The media companies are doing what they always do and try to confuse consumers so they believe they are getting something they are not.


----------



## Dan203

rainwater said:


> No you can't. You can buy blu-ray movies that are mastered from the 4K source but they are 1080p at best.
> 
> The media companies are doing what they always do and try to confuse consumers so they believe they are getting something they are not.


Yep. There is a purposed extension to the BD spec that would allow 4K, but it has not been approved yet.


----------



## rainwater

Dan203 said:


> Yep. There is a purposed extension to the BD spec that would allow 4K, but it has not been approved yet.


And you can be sure it will be done in a way they can try to get consumers to have to upgrade their Blu-ray players.


----------



## Philmatic

rainwater said:


> And you can be sure it will be done in a way they can try to get consumers to have to upgrade their Blu-ray players.


Even if they weren't trying to screw their customers (They are), you would have to upgrade your TV, the HDMI cable that connects to your Blu-Ray player and also the Blu-Ray player. None of those components supports any level of 4k video. From a component perspective, you have to replace every device you have to support 4k.


----------



## tivogurl

rainwater said:


> And you can be sure it will be done in a way they can try to get consumers to have to upgrade their Blu-ray players.


That would be necessary anyway, since there aren't any BD players that can output 4k content even if it had a compatible encoding.


----------



## Troy J B

Philmatic said:


> Even if they weren't trying to screw their customers (They are), you would have to upgrade your TV, the HDMI cable that connects to your Blu-Ray player and also the Blu-Ray player. None of those components supports any level of 4k video. From a component perspective, you have to replace every device you have to support 4k.


I was under the impression that HDMI 1.4 cables supported 4k video already.


----------



## Philmatic

Troy J B said:


> I was under the impression that HDMI 1.4 cables supported 4k video already.


Barely, it supports 4K 3840×2160p at 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz or 4096×2160p at 24Hz. HDMI 2.0 is currently being worked on and is required for 4k at 60Hz and it might support 120Hz, but that hasn't been confirmed yet.

Again, the cable is the cheapest part of the link, you may already have a HDMI 1.4 cable, but you likely don't have a 4K TV and you for sure don't have a 4K Blu-Ray player because they don't exist.


----------



## morac

Weaknees is selling the new boxes at $10, $25 and $40 off respectively with coupon code.


----------



## dswallow

morac said:


> Weaknees is selling the new boxes at $10, $25 and $40 off respectively with coupon code.


With Weaknees, I'd make sure they weren't inflating MSRP just to do that.


----------



## tvn

Do I need a MOCA adapter connected to my wireless router if the Roamio Plus is in a different room without ethernet? I had it with the Premiere XL4 but the wireless aspects of the Roamio, and the coax connected to my four Minis, has me confused. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Dan203

No. The Roamio can continue to talk to the Minis via MoCa while talking to the internet via Wifi. So you should be able to eliminate the MoCa adapter attached to your router.


----------



## morac

dswallow said:


> With Weaknees, I'd make sure they weren't inflating MSRP just to do that.


They aren't inflating the MSRP, but they do seem to have an arithmetic problem. They are listed as selling for $190, $375 and $570. The last is said to be $40 off the $600 MSRP.


----------



## jmpage2

Philmatic said:


> Yes, all three models have a built-in IR receiver. It's just the the RF remote is standard.


Thanks to you and other responders. This thread is getting highly derailed with 4K nonsense.


----------



## tivogurl

morac said:


> Weaknees is selling the new boxes at $10, $25 and $40 off respectively with coupon code.


Said coupon code is? I don't see a link on the website.


----------



## tvn

Dan203 said:


> No. The Roamio can continue to talk to the Minis via MoCa while talking to the internet via Wifi. So you should be able to eliminate the MoCa adapter attached to your router.


Thank you, Dan. Roamio Plus is on the way!


----------



## Johncv

NotNowChief said:


> Still No Android Support! Are They Kidding Me!
> 
> What Is Wrong With These People!


Read the CNet, coming 2014.


----------



## Dan203

Tom Rodgers said "Fall" in a TV interview he just did on Fox Business.


----------



## morac

tivogurl said:


> Said coupon code is? I don't see a link on the website.


It was sent in their email newsletter. The codes for each model are simply the name of the box without spaces. Coupon is good till 9/6 or while supplies last.


----------



## tivogurl

morac said:


> They aren't inflating the MSRP, but they do seem to have an arithmetic problem. They are listed as selling for $190, $375 and $570. The last is said to be $40 off the $600 MSRP.


The arithmetic problem is fixed. The Pro is now 559.99 with code :up:


----------



## GoHokies!

morac said:


> Weaknees is selling the new boxes at $10, $25 and $40 off respectively with coupon code.


Thanks for that - that last $25 off and free shipping was enough to shatter what was left of my willpower.

NOW HURRY UP AND GET HERE ALREADY!!! 

The description of the Roamio Plus on the checkout screen was screwed up, claiming that it had 4 tuners - they're still working out the bugs, I guess.


----------



## Dan203

I wonder how they have stock but BestBuy and Amazon still don't?


----------



## mike123abc

Aero 1 said:


> according to zatz, get a free tivo stream with the purchase of a base roamio
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/369859923628130304


It is a great deal, I picked it up! You actually get the stream from free and 1 cent off the price of the TiVo:

They reduce the price of the TiVo to 149.99 or $50 off
They reduce the price of the stream to 49.99.

So the $50 off on the TiVo covers the $49.99 stream price and you get an extra penny.


----------



## Kolenka

Dan203 said:


> I wonder how they have stock but BestBuy and Amazon still don't?


To be fair, Amazon did have stock earlier in the day, and these guys say shipping by the 22nd.


----------



## aaronwt

tivogurl said:


> The arithmetic problem is fixed. The Pro is now 559.99 with code :up:


Did I miss what the discount code is?


----------



## Am_I_Evil

GoHokies! said:


> Thanks for that - that last $25 off and free shipping was enough to shatter what was left of my willpower.
> 
> NOW HURRY UP AND GET HERE ALREADY!!!
> 
> The description of the Roamio Plus on the checkout screen was screwed up, claiming that it had 4 tuners - they're still working out the bugs, I guess.


amazon, tivo, best buy all tax for me...Weaknees $25 off and no tax...bought instantly...hope i can upgrade to a 3TB/4TB drive (got the PLUS)

so when i list my Premiere 4 with a 2TB drive on ebay...should i sell the stream with it as a bundle or separate...what do you think will get me more cash back? lol


----------



## morac

aaronwt said:


> Did I miss what the discount code is?


I didn't post them outright, but you should be able to guess from my previous post.


----------



## Dan203

Kolenka said:


> To be fair, Amazon did have stock earlier in the day, and these guys say shipping by the 22nd.


Did they? I didn't realize that. I looked just now and saw the "ships in 2-3 weeks" and thought it was always like that. (typical when something first launches like this)


----------



## aaronwt

morac said:


> I didn't post them outright, but you should be able to guess from my previous post.




Thanks!!


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Did they? I didn't realize that. I looked just now and saw the "ships in 2-3 weeks" and thought it was always like that. (typical when something first launches like this)


They had all three models and they sold out rather quickly.

I was hoping the local BestBuy would have some info but he couldn't even bring any info up on his screen. I was hoping they might have been in the regional warehouse. I've got some gift cards and Reward Zone dollars from BestBuy so I would prefer to get it form there. Although I'll probably get the extended warranty from TiVo. At $600 BestBuy will probably charge at least $90 for the 4 year extended warranty. They are charging $70 for the 4 year extended warranty for the Roamio Plus.

Is the TiVo extended warranty still $30 for two years and $40 for three years?


----------



## csrx

Broke down and placed an order with weaknees. Thanks!!


----------



## ilovedvrs

Philmatic said:


> Barely, it supports 4K 3840×2160p at 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz or 4096×2160p at 24Hz. HDMI 2.0 is currently being worked on and is required for 4k at 60Hz and it might support 120Hz, but that hasn't been confirmed yet.
> 
> Again, the cable is the cheapest part of the link, you may already have a HDMI 1.4 cable, but you likely don't have a 4K TV and you for sure don't have a 4K Blu-Ray player because they don't exist.


Silly too say 4k doesn't exists

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1538427222&pf_rd_i=B00BPA2PBG

http://www.amazon.com/Ghostbusters-Mastered-Single-Disc-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B00BPA2PBG

http://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Submarine-The-Beatles/dp/B0079J28NC

4k output Blu-ray player
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360516845879

not to mention in a few months everyone with an Xbox one and ps4 well have 4k Blu-ray player.


----------



## Am_I_Evil

csrx said:


> Broke down and placed an order with weaknees. Thanks!!


i was going to be patient...but no tax and a discount won me over immediately...


----------



## Beryl

Purchased the lowest model+free stream+lifetime on the phone. The rep gave me the "one time" deal to lifetime my inactive HD for $99. :up:

Now to decide whether to sell or donate both of my lifetime HD boxes. I figure I could write off a LOT more ($450 & $650, respectively) than I could ever sell them and it might be worth it to avoid the hassle. Either way, my Roamio splurge is covered.


----------



## brianric

GoHokies! said:


> Thanks for that - that last $25 off and free shipping was enough to shatter what was left of my willpower.
> 
> NOW HURRY UP AND GET HERE ALREADY!!!


Last $40, no sales tax, free shipping pushed me over the edge.


----------



## Kolenka

aaronwt said:


> They had all three models and they sold out rather quickly.


I would have preferred Amazon myself, with Prime shipping, but I missed the window. I also broke down and ordered from TiVo before Amazon listed the stock.

I tend to avoid Best Buy for day one purchases. Their launch of products has become very spotty, and they keep their retail staff in the dark intentionally now. Not too helpful.



ilovedvrs said:


> Silly too say 4k doesn't exists
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1538427222&pf_rd_i=B00BPA2PBG
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ghostbusters-Mastered-Single-Disc-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B00BPA2PBG
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Submarine-The-Beatles/dp/B0079J28NC
> 
> 4k output Blu-ray player
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/360516845879
> 
> not to mention in a few months everyone with an Xbox one and ps4 well have 4k Blu-ray player.


Note that the "Mastered for 4K" line is still 1080p. The Oppo Blu-Ray player you linked doesn't play 4K, but up converts 1080p to 4K. Oh, and a DVD is still SD last time I checked, even when mastered from a 4K source.

I'm still waiting to even see real 4k content I can buy and own.


----------



## aaronwt

ilovedvrs said:


> Silly too say 4k doesn't exists
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1538427222&pf_rd_i=B00BPA2PBG
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ghostbusters-Mastered-Single-Disc-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B00BPA2PBG
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Submarine-The-Beatles/dp/B0079J28NC
> 
> 4k output Blu-ray player
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/360516845879
> 
> not to mention in a few months everyone with an Xbox one and ps4 well have 4k Blu-ray player.


Those are mastered in 4K titles. I own several of them. They most certainly have nothing to do with with 4K. They are basically like the SuperBit DVDs were. Higher bandwidth encodes with out a bunch of extras on the disc. Some look better than the previous releases and some don't. But they are all encoded at 1080P.

And the vast majority of BD players cannot upscale to 4K. Some of the more expensive ones can. But if someone has a 4K display, then their display can also upscale to 4K. If I had a five figure, 4K display, I would probably rely on the display upscaling over the $500 BD player upscaling.


----------



## MeInDallas

Beryl said:


> Purchased the lowest model+free stream+lifetime on the phone. The rep gave me the "one time" deal to lifetime my inactive HD for $99. :up:
> 
> Now to decide whether to sell or donate both of my lifetime HD boxes. I figure I could write off a LOT more ($450 & $650, respectively) than I could ever sell them and it might be worth it to avoid the hassle. Either way, my Roamio splurge is covered.


I sold both my lifetime HD's for $350 each on Ebay, so that was $700 I got for them. That was back before the Roamio was even being talked about.


----------



## jcthorne

Dan203 said:


> I wonder how they have stock but BestBuy and Amazon still don't?


Amazon had stock, they just sold out earlier today. They shipped mine today for tomorrow delivery.


----------



## SullyND

Fofer said:


> TiVo should release tools to do a complete (and automated) migration of all recorded shows from one TiVo to a newer one.


Yes. Shows, SPs, ARWL, Thumbs, etc. I've long wished they had a "Migration Assistant". Going from my THD XL > Premiere wasn't worth it for me. The Roamio is compelling, but being able to automatically "clone" my THD would make it even more compelling.


----------



## alyssa

b_scott said:


> lol somehow my quoted name was changed to "d_scott"


that's what happens when someone with dyslexia knows keyboard short cuts....


----------



## Crrink

Beryl said:


> Purchased the lowest model+free stream+lifetime on the phone. The rep gave me the "one time" deal to lifetime my inactive HD for $99. :up:
> 
> Now to decide whether to sell or donate both of my lifetime HD boxes. I figure I could write off a LOT more ($450 & $650, respectively) than I could ever sell them and it might be worth it to avoid the hassle. Either way, my Roamio splurge is covered.


Hm, nice deal... I placed an order online, but called to ask if they'd do the same for me, and was surprised that they would for the 2 HD's I still have on my account - no luck for the one Premiere.
They're all on the $6.95 MSD plan, so I'm not 100% sure I did the right thing - wondering if I could have transferred that pricing to a Roamio bought somewhere besides TiVo. 
Quick, someone tell me I can't so I'll feel better about my decision


----------



## P42

Spend the $99 *2 on putting Lifetime on the HDs, then flip them on ebay for $250+ each. This will take the sting out of the Roamio pricing.


----------



## wco81

How essential is the extended warranty?

Does it cover you if you had upgraded the drive and there's the inevitable drive failure?

Even if the drive fails, would they replace the bigger drive? And of course, you lose your recordings regardless?


----------



## ncbill

3TB WD AV-GP drives are $150 (sadly, no 4TB AV-GP drive yet)

Predictions on how long it will take until MFS/JMFS are updated to support the new models?


----------



## MeInDallas

ncbill said:


> 3TB WD AV-GP drives are $150 (sadly, no 4TB AV-GP drive yet)
> 
> Predictions on how long it will take until MFS/JMFS are updated to support the new models?


Hopefully since Seagate has a 4TB AV drive, Western Digital will soon follow.


----------



## zgamer

If you already have HDs, why buy a mini? Seems to be a wash, loose extra recording capabilities and gain some streaming capabilities


----------



## amseven11

Ordered mine lastnight they shipped today so for anyone wondering they are is no delay in shipping at the moment.


----------



## bayern_fan

amseven11 said:


> Ordered mine lastnight they shipped today so for anyone wondering they are is no delay in shipping at the moment.


Ordered mine earlier this afternoon from Tivo, and it shipped in the evening with a UPS Ground tracking number.

Expected delivery date of Monday in NY. Waiting is the hardest part...


----------



## MeInDallas

Bloomberg interview with Tom Rogers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/tivo-ceo-rogers-discusses-new-set-top-box-8eNCKhYNR1SgqFz74nvx0Q.html


----------



## Millionaire2K

Ordered very early on the 20th and it shipped UPS ground this afternoon. Delivery Friday in PA.


----------



## dswallow

Mine shipped via FedEx and arrived in Memphis at 10:17pm ET. It'll be here tomorrow. I ordered from Amazon.


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> How essential is the extended warranty?
> 
> Does it cover you if you had upgraded the drive and there's the inevitable drive failure?
> 
> Even if the drive fails, would they replace the bigger drive? And of course, you lose your recordings regardless?


No they wont cover your bigger drive. If the drive fails and you upgraded the drive you have to fix it yourself.

The extended warranty is important for two things... 1) If you have lifetime and the power supply or mobo goes then you'll get a new unit with the lifetime transferred. 2) If you sell the unit before the warranty is up you typically get a bit more money because it's transferable.


----------



## lessd

morac said:


> It was sent in their email newsletter. The codes for each model are simply the name of the box without spaces. Coupon is good till 9/6 or while supplies last.


Worked great for the TiVo Roamio Plus $25 off from the $399.99 price and free shipping, and no tax, for me that over a $50 savings from purchasing directly from TiVo.


----------



## Beryl

Dan203 said:


> No they wont cover your bigger drive. If the drive fails and you upgraded the drive you have to fix it yourself.
> 
> The extended warranty is important for two things... 1) If you have lifetime and the power supply or mobo goes then you'll get a new unit with the lifetime transferred. 2) If you sell the unit before the warranty is up you typically get a bit more money because it's transferable.


Also the extended warranty is relatively inexpensive.


----------



## tivogurl

aaronwt said:


> I've got some gift cards and Reward Zone dollars from BestBuy so I would prefer to get it form there. Although I'll probably get the extended warranty from TiVo.


How do you get the extended warranty from TiVo if you didn't buy the unit from them?


----------



## dswallow

tivogurl said:


> How do you get the extended warranty from TiVo if you didn't buy the unit from them?


You'll have the option when you activate the TiVo online.


----------



## Dan203

You can actually do it any time in the first 90 days. I bought my wife a Premiere for Christmas and then added an extended warranty to it in January some time.


----------



## waterchange

wco81 said:


> How essential is the extended warranty?
> 
> Does it cover you if you had upgraded the drive and there's the inevitable drive failure?
> 
> Even if the drive fails, would they replace the bigger drive? And of course, you lose your recordings regardless?


You're not really asking if they will cover a failure in a drive you swapped in, are you? I'm pretty sure that once you remove the cover of a Tivo that voids the warranty.


----------



## wco81

I figured as much.

I added RAM to my MacBook Pro, didn't have an extended warranty.


----------



## jcthorne

Does the smaller base Roamio use a 2.5" drive?


----------



## Dan203

We don't know yet.


----------



## PotentiallyCoherent

NotNowChief said:


> Still No Android Support! Are They Kidding Me!
> 
> What Is Wrong With These People!


Tivo is obviously out to get you.


----------



## b_scott

atmuscarella said:


> I agree with this but I expect 4k will be like 1080p vs720p. At first only the high end sets will be 4k but as time goes on more TVs will be 4k and eventually most TVs will be 4k.


TV still doesn't even broadcast in 1080p. It's 720p or 1080i. And that's about 10 years in. I don't expect 4K broadcasts for at least the life of these new boxes.


----------



## b_scott

wco81 said:


> How essential is the extended warranty?


I bought it on both my Premieres. Expired this spring and still haven't had to call for issues.


----------



## innocentfreak

I know at least one person was waiting for Best Buy. They are now showing the Plus and Pro coming soon on their site.

Best Buy

Before they only listed the base model. It looks like both Pro and Plus are Magnolia only. I figured the Pro would be, but somewhat surprised about the Plus.


----------



## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> I know at least one person was waiting for Best Buy. They are now showing the Plus and Pro coming soon on their site.
> 
> Best Buy
> 
> Before they only listed the base model. It looks like both Pro and Plus are Magnolia only. I figured the Pro would be, but somewhat surprised about the Plus.


But it looks like it will also be available to order online too. So there won't need to be a BestBuy nearby with Magnolia.

Although around here, I think just about every BestBuy has a Magnolia section. And there are around twenty of them within a 30 or 40 minute drive.(if there is no traffic)


----------



## NotNowChief

I just read there was a "blue moon" yesterday, so that explains yesterday's release.

We need astronomers to help speculate the release of new products.


----------



## aaronwt

NotNowChief said:


> I just read there was a "blue moon" yesterday, so that explains yesterday's release.
> 
> We need astronomers to help speculate the release of new products.


I thought a Blue Moon was the second Full Moon in a month? It would be too early for a second Full moon.


----------



## NotNowChief

aaronwt said:


> I thought a Blue Moon was the second Full Moon in a month? It would be too early for a second Full moon.


I just read it in the local newspaper, that it occurred yesterday. Hmmm I better check a more "reliable" source.


----------



## NotNowChief

Nope, it was a blue moon yesterday, but you need to read the explanation as to WHY!

http://news.discovery.com/space/astronomy/blue-moon-rises-explainer-130820.htm

I wonder how many fellow TCF people know the signifigance of the "blue moon"...


----------



## tatergator1

I also remember hearing about the recent "blue moon" on our local news broadcast, but it went in one ear and out the other. Interesting coincidence or Tivo slyly paying homage to the Series 1? 

Makes you think....


----------



## ncbill

Not unless you break something - since they offer a warranty, MagnusonMoss applies.

W


waterchange said:


> I'm pretty sure that once you remove the cover of a Tivo that voids the warranty.


----------



## lessd

ncbill said:


> Not unless you break something - since they offer a warranty, MagnusonMoss applies.
> 
> W


Or change out the hard drive.


----------



## zgamer

ncbill said:


> Not unless you break something - since they offer a warranty, MagnusonMoss applies.
> 
> W


True but if the "warranty void if removed" is tampered with while legally are in violation of the Act, many organizations turn the process into a very painful lengthy process because they feel they can.


----------



## ncbill

Sure, the original warranty doesn't cover any upgrade you install, but performing that upgrade doesn't void the warranty on the rest of the device.

No matter what any CSR tells you over the phone.



lessd said:


> Or change out the hard drive.


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

Hi all - didn't feel this warranted a new thread, so hoping someone can answer here:

I have never purchased through weaknees before. If i do, I assume I can still get the discount on lifetime service? As well as the tivo extended warranty?

Thanks!


----------



## bayern_fan

Big Boy Laroux said:


> Hi all - didn't feel this warranted a new thread, so hoping someone can answer here:
> 
> I have never purchased through weaknees before. If i do, I assume I can still get the discount on lifetime service? As well as the tivo extended warranty?
> 
> Thanks!


Correct. When activating the unit online, you will have your choice of service and, after signing into your TiVo account, should see the discounted lifetime service option available for multi-unit subscribers.


----------



## aaronwt

ncbill said:


> Sure, the original warranty doesn't cover any upgrade you install, but performing that upgrade doesn't void the warranty on the rest of the device.
> 
> No matter what any CSR tells you over the phone.


Sure it can. And I've had this happen to me in the past in 2007 when the TiVoHD was launched.. If the box is opened up the warranty is technically void. It's just a matter of whether they enforce it or not. I was not talking to a CSR but an engineer, Supervisor, and a couple of other people. Since they can tell when the hard drive has been upgraded, they would not trouble shoot a launch TiVoHD I had(It had a problem where analog channels would send out mono audio instead of stereo. It ended up being a software issue) because it was not under warranty since the box was opened when the hard drive was replaced.

I had replaced the hard drive as soon as I purchased it. Which was the norm for me with the S3 TiVos. i never told them the hard drive was upgraded. They told me that it was upgraded since they could see the change in info on their end. And therefore the box had been opened and the warranty was void. This was all within a few days of purchase of the launch TiVoHD.

I talked to multiple people and they would not budge. It was not under warranty any more because I had opened it up. So I put the original hard drive back in and took it back to Circuit City for an exchange. And of course the second TiVoHD had the same issue. Which is when I knew it wasn't specific to the first box I had.

I got FiOS a few weeks later so I didn't have to worry any more about mono audio from any analog channels since FiOS was all digital. At some point though I guess they fixed the issue.


----------



## aindik

Does TiVo transfer lifetime service to a new box replacing a lifetime'd box under a third party warranty (e.g., Squaretrade, Best Buy, etc.) or only their own warranty?


----------



## innocentfreak

aindik said:


> Does TiVo transfer lifetime service to a new box replacing a lifetime'd box under a third party warranty (e.g., Squaretrade, Best Buy, etc.) or only their own warranty?


Yes with Best Buy. You will need to fax them the warranty exchange receipt. I don't know for sure with Square Trade so I would call and confrim.

I know people had problems in the past with Costco since they would let you return defective boxes at anytime. Since it wasn't a warranty exchange though, they wouldn't transfer lifetime.


----------



## Hank

MScottC said:


> I called TiVo and explained that I had the pre 2000 grandfathered TiVo.


Just wanted to say I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a pre-2000 grandfathered S1 Lifetime left to transfer. Although I haven't used my S1 since I bought the S3 in 2006.

I'm slightly annoyed that I can't take advantage of the "free" Tivo Stream with the Roamio Basic unit and also transfer my lifetime service.


----------



## dswallow

dswallow said:


> Mine shipped via FedEx and arrived in Memphis at 10:17pm ET. It'll be here tomorrow. I ordered from Amazon.


Delivered.


----------



## LKMcMillen

Quick observation:

After receiving assurance from a member of TiVo's Customer Service that the TiVo Desktop Software will work with the TiVo Roamio (I'm a "Cord Cutter" with OTA only), I placed an order yesterday afternoon directly with TiVo. My order was just delivered this morning to my home in Southern California by UPS.

I found it interesting that the shipper was Amazon.COM KYDC, INC (Shipped from Fort Worth, Texas) and not TiVo.


----------



## innocentfreak

Someone who gets the base Roamio needs to post a photo of the inside.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9777715

We already have a photo of the Pro.


----------



## jcthorne

Many companies are using Amazon fulfillment services rather than their own warehouse, shipping departments etc. With Amazon's economy of scale, they can often outsource far cheaper than doing it themselves.


----------



## Fist of Death

Does the TiVo Roamio have a GBe NIC, or is it still 100 Base/T?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Looks like gigabit to me, at least from the Plus/Pro internal shot in the other thread. Don't know what's on the inside of the base model.


----------



## DaveDFW

Fist of Death said:


> Does the TiVo Roamio have a GBe NIC, or is it still 100 Base/T?


The specifications table I've seen lists the base with 10/100 and Plus/Pro with 10/100/1000.


----------



## chiguy50

aindik said:


> Does TiVo transfer lifetime service to a new box replacing a lifetime'd box under a third party warranty (e.g., Squaretrade, Best Buy, etc.) or only their own warranty?


Just to be clear, TiVo does not warranty their own boxes; the extended warranty service you purchase through TiVo is actually provided through a third party: Service Net Warranty, LLC. In other words, if you need to use the warranty service you will presumably be dealing with the latter, not TiVo.

I'm not sure whether your experience with them would differ from other third-party services or to what extent. Perhaps someone who has used the service can enlighten us.


----------



## jcthorne

DaveDFW said:


> The specifications table I've seen lists the base with 10/100 and Plus/Pro with 10/100/1000.


The specs chart at TiVo.com shows all three have Gbit Ethernet ports and b/g/n wifi. The plus and pro add moca.


----------



## innocentfreak

chiguy50 said:


> Just to be clear, TiVo does not warranty their own boxes; the extended warranty service you purchase through TiVo is actually provided through a third party: Service Net Warranty, LLC. In other words, if you need to use the warranty service you will presumably be dealing with the latter, not TiVo.
> 
> I'm not sure whether your experience with them would differ from other third-party services or to what extent. Perhaps someone who has used the service can enlighten us.


The one TiVo sells is dealt with TiVo from the consumer side. I used it on the Premiere XL and just called TiVo to use it. I shipped mine back and they shipped me a refurb. I think they shipped first with a credit card.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

DaveDFW said:


> The specifications table I've seen lists the base with 10/100 and Plus/Pro with 10/100/1000.


Where did you see that table?

According to weaknees.com all three are 10/100 NIC's. That website is the only one I've seen so far that actually shows the speeds. Everywhere else I've looked only show "Ethernet", no specific speeds.


----------



## jcthorne

Just FYI, Amazon shows available stock for shipping the base Roamio again. They were sold out last night.


----------



## LKMcMillen

chiguy50 said:


> Just to be clear, TiVo does not warranty their own boxes; the extended warranty service you purchase through TiVo is actually provided through a third party: Service Net Warranty, LLC. In other words, if you need to use the warranty service you will presumably be dealing with the latter, not TiVo.
> 
> I'm not sure whether your experience with them would differ from other third-party services or to what extent. Perhaps someone who has used the service can enlighten us.


Despite my usual disdain for extended warranties, after having gone through 3 TiVo Premieres (One replaced under warranty after only 3 days use), and 2 TiVo Premiere 4's (One replaced under warranty after 2 weeks use), all of which were unmodified and experienced various hardware failures, I finally decided that an extended warranty is a necessity with TiVo devices.

The hardware failures occurred despite electrical service to my home being protected by a whole-house surge protector; each of my TiVo boxes being located on an open shelf, and connected to an APC 350W battery backup device; and the temperature in my home never rising above 80 degrees Fahrenheit.

Warranty service from TiVo has always involved a "hot-swap", with the replacement devices arriving within 1-2 days.


----------



## Fist of Death

jcthorne said:


> The specs chart at TiVo.com shows all three have Gbit Ethernet ports and b/g/n wifi. The plus and pro add moca.


Perfect - thanks. With the increased capacity to stream, I was hoping for the faster NIC.


----------



## Philmatic

BiloxiGeek said:


> Where did you see that table?
> 
> According to weaknees.com all three are 10/100 NIC's. That website is the only one I've seen so far that actually shows the speeds. Everywhere else I've looked only show "Ethernet", no specific speeds.


https://www.tivo.com/shop/roamio#tab2

All three Roamio's have *Gigabit* Ethernet interfaces, and 802.11 *a*/b/g/n dual band wireless interfaces. The Plus and Pro add MoCA.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

BiloxiGeek said:


> Where did you see that table?
> 
> According to weaknees.com all three are 10/100 NIC's. That website is the only one I've seen so far that actually shows the speeds. Everywhere else I've looked only show "Ethernet", no specific speeds.


Nevermind, when I looked at the specifications table for the three roamio's I didn't see the speeds listed in the left hand coluum, just the thumbs up under the three models.


----------



## tivogurl

Grakthis said:


> These days TIVo is going with a subsidized hardware model with higher monthly fees. Which is why it's making more and more sense to treat the hardware as disposable... don't invest too much in the box and just pay the monthly fee.


So you suggest buying only the base model and pay the monthly fee? No point to the extended warranty either, by this reasoning, especially since it's a large fraction of the base unit's cost. Could you elaborate a little more on this idea?


----------



## ppartekim

Philmatic said:


> https://www.tivo.com/shop/roamio#tab2
> 
> All three Roamio's have *Gigabit* Ethernet interfaces, and 802.11 *a*/b/g/n dual band wireless interfaces. The Plus and Pro add MoCA.


Ok, see the line "Ethernet port (10/100/1000 Mbps)", didn't see where it states the wireless speeds...


----------



## Philmatic

ppartekim said:


> Ok, see the line "Ethernet port (10/100/1000 Mbps)", didn't see where it states the wireless speeds...


----------



## tatergator1

jcthorne said:


> Just FYI, Amazon shows available stock for shipping the base Roamio again. They were sold out last night.


These are sold by Weaknees. Amazon is still showing 1-3 weeks for stock if you're intending on taking advantage of Prime Shipping.


----------



## jfh3

dswallow said:


> Delivered.


Jealous.


----------



## jcthorne

tatergator1 said:


> These are sold by Weaknees. Amazon is still showing 1-3 weeks for stock if you're intending on taking advantage of Prime Shipping.


No, they are available amazon prime for delivery tomorrow. Just checked again to be sure.


----------



## ppartekim

Philmatic said:


>


Whoops missed that one.. was looking for 802.xxx wording...

The dual band is inferred since it supports "a" which is 5Ghz, 'b/g" is 2.4 GHz, and "n" could be either.


----------



## Philmatic

ppartekim said:


> The dual band is inferred since it supports "a" which is 5Ghz, 'b/g" is 2.4 GHz, and "n" could be either.


Yep, although I have never seen a single chip solution that DIDN'T do 802.11n over 5GHz if it was available. Worst case it could be changed with software.


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

jcthorne said:


> No, they are available amazon prime for delivery tomorrow. Just checked again to be sure.


yeah, looks like Base model Roamio is currently (3:30 PM on 8/21) available for immediate shipping with Amazon prime. Plus and Pro are not.


----------



## brianric

Big Boy Laroux said:


> Plus and Pro are not.


Tomorrow (8-22)


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

brianric said:


> Tomorrow (8-22)


Showing August 28 for me on Amazon (prime eligible, not the weaknees resale) for plus and pro


----------



## Machingon

Could any Roamio owner confirm whether they can hear the TiVo (bloop-bloop) sounds over Dolby Digital? As acknowledged by TiVo, the sounds effects cannot be heard when playing programs with Dolby Digital audio tracks on Series 3 and 4 hardware. With the new hardware (and advanced chipsets), I'm hoping this has been corrected.


----------



## chiguy50

LKMcMillen said:


> Despite my usual disdain for extended warranties, after having gone through 3 TiVo Premieres (One replaced under warranty after only 3 days use), and 2 TiVo Premiere 4's (One replaced under warranty after 2 weeks use), all of which were unmodified and experienced various hardware failures, I finally decided that an extended warranty is a necessity with TiVo devices.
> 
> The hardware failures occurred despite electrical service to my home being protected by a whole-house surge protector; each of my TiVo boxes being located on an open shelf, and connected to an APC 350W battery backup device; and the temperature in my home never rising above 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
> Warranty service from TiVo has always involved a "hot-swap", with the replacement devices arriving within 1-2 days.


Good to know.

I never bite on extended warranties but made a sole exception for my Premiere Elite simply because of the large investment it represents ($360 plus $400 PLS) and the reasonable cost of the 3-year extended warranty ($40). But I have owned four TiVo's over the past 5 years and never had an issue with any of them beyond the initial set up and test out period.

I inquired before purchasing the EW from TiVo, and the CSR confirmed that they use a third-party warranty service. And the certificate I was issued identifies them as I stated in my earlier post.


----------



## caseybea

Suck. I have antenna only, so I'd HAVE to get the romio base. No streaming for me. I think I'll pass then, since then the only thing the Romio offers that I don't have today is the extra tuners.

(and yes, I realize with the extra extra money, I could go buy a tivo stream, and..).


----------



## aaronwt

Machingon said:


> Could any Roamio owner confirm whether they can hear the TiVo (bloop-bloop) sounds over Dolby Digital? As acknowledged by TiVo, the sounds effects cannot be heard when playing programs with Dolby Digital audio tracks on Series 3 and 4 hardware. With the new hardware (and advanced chipsets), I'm hoping this has been corrected.


This was the case twelve years ago too with my DirecTV TiVos. The only way to correct it would be for The TiVo to decode the DD audio stream and then insert the sound effects. Then it would need to output it as multi channel pcm audio or reencode it back to Dolby Digital.

It is not going to reencode to DD so the best bet is for pcm. Although With past TiVos it would only output pcm in stereo. I would be surprised if the Roamio is any different.


----------



## Philmatic

caseybea said:


> Suck. I have antenna only, so I'd HAVE to get the romio base. No streaming for me. I think I'll pass then, since then the only thing the Romio offers that I don't have today is the extra tuners.
> 
> (and yes, I realize with the extra extra money, I could go buy a tivo stream, and..).


TiVo Stream


----------



## waterchange

caseybea said:


> Suck. I have antenna only, so I'd HAVE to get the romio base. No streaming for me. I think I'll pass then, since then the only thing the Romio offers that I don't have today is the extra tuners.
> 
> (and yes, I realize with the extra extra money, I could go buy a tivo stream, and..).


If you're not aware, you get a Tivo Stream free right now with base Roamio: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507635


----------



## rainwater

waterchange said:


> If you're not aware, you get a Tivo Stream free right now with base Roamio: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507635


And you can get it for $50 by itself with the same code.


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> This was the case twelve years ago too with my DirecTV TiVos. The only way to correct it would be for The TiVo to decode the DD audio stream and then insert the sound effects. Then it would need to output it as multi channel pcm audio or reencode it back to Dolby Digital.
> 
> It is not going to reencode to DD so the best bet is for pcm. Although With past TiVos it would only output pcm in stereo. I would be surprised if the Roamio is any different.


Not quite. They could insert their own DD encoded sounds into the stream without recoding. (we do it in VRD) However the bitrate, channels, sample rate etc... all have to match. Which means they would need a couple dozen copies of each sound pre-encoded to all possible combos or to encode the sound to the matching parameters in realtime. DD encoding is an expensive license so I doubt they would do the later, and the former would be kind of a PITA to deal with.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Not quite. They could insert their own DD encoded sounds into the stream without recoding. (we do it in VRD) However the bitrate, channels, sample rate etc... all have to match. Which means they would need a couple dozen copies of each sound pre-encoded to all possible combos or to encode the sound to the matching parameters in realtime. DD encoding is an expensive license so I doubt they would do the later, and the former would be kind of a PITA to deal with.


yes, I would think it would be difficult to match the bitrates since they are all over the place with the different broadcasts. Plus aren't the broadcast bitrates variable?


----------



## dswallow

The first thing it wants to do is a software update, of course. "Less than an hour"... *sigh*.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

They've never had a good out-of-box-experience. Sigh. Oh well.


----------



## dswallow

Dan203 said:


> Not quite. They could insert their own DD encoded sounds into the stream without recoding. (we do it in VRD) However the bitrate, channels, sample rate etc... all have to match. Which means they would need a couple dozen copies of each sound pre-encoded to all possible combos or to encode the sound to the matching parameters in realtime. DD encoding is an expensive license so I doubt they would do the later, and the former would be kind of a PITA to deal with.


HDMI needed to support a digital overlay/mix-in audio channel.


----------



## aaronwt

dswallow said:


> The first thing it wants to do is a software update, of course. "Less than an hour"... *sigh*.


An update is what I want to see with a new device. Then i know it's getting improvements and fixes since the time when it was manufactured weeks or months prior.

I'm more bummed if a new device does not have an update when first turned on.


----------



## ppartekim

aaronwt said:


> An update is what I want to see with a new device. Then i know it's getting improvements and fixes since the time when it was manufactured weeks or months prior.
> 
> I'm more bummed if a new device does not have an update when first turned on.


I would prefer it uploaded new stuff later that night so I could at least get my settings done and can see something...

Updating right away like seeing the UPS guy park and get out of his truck but then stop to answer several calls before walking all the way to my door....


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> yes, I would think it would be difficult to match the bitrates since they are all over the place with the different broadcasts. Plus aren't the broadcast bitrates variable?


AC3 doesn't do variable bitrates. But there are 19 possible bitrates ranging from 32-640Kbps, 3 possible sampling rates, and 8 possible channel configurations with and without LFE. So they would need to have 912 copies of every sound to cover all possible combinations.

However I wonder what they do not to generate the silence? They must be doing something our your receiver would have a delay before it started playing after a trick play. (like most other devices) But TiVo has some how figured out how to keep the stream alive so that it starts playing immediately after the trick play. I wonder if they're inserting silent frames or using some other trick to make it work.


----------



## aindik

Dan203 said:


> AC3 doesn't do variable bitrates. But there are 19 possible bitrates ranging from 32-640Kbps, 3 possible sampling rates, and 8 possible channel configurations with and without LFE. So they would need to have 912 copies of every sound to cover all possible combinations.
> 
> However I wonder what they do not to generate the silence? They must be doing something our your receiver would have a delay before it started playing after a trick play. (like most other devices) But TiVo has some how figured out how to keep the stream alive so that it starts playing immediately after the trick play. I wonder if they're inserting silent frames or using some other trick to make it work.


Is that new for the Premieres? My HD produces silence after trick play, to the point that I now hit the 8 seconds back button instead of the play button to unpause.


----------



## kingmob

Does anyone know whether the built-in wifi can be turned off? I did a quick search of TiVo's support site and didn't find an answer immediately.

(My wireless router is within a couple of feet of my TiVo, so a wired connection makes more sense, and there's not reason to keep the wifi running if I'm not using it.)


----------



## Dan203

aindik said:


> Is that new for the Premieres? My HD produces silence after trick play, to the point that I now hit the 8 seconds back button instead of the play button to unpause.


Maybe, or maybe it's just my receiver. I watch a lot of movies on Netflix and VUDU and I always have to back up after I pause them because I get a couple seconds of silence. But with TiVo recordings the audio starts playing immediately so I never have to do that.


----------



## ppartekim

kingmob said:


> Does anyone know whether the built-in wifi can be turned off? I did a quick search of TiVo's support site and didn't find an answer immediately.
> 
> (My wireless router is within a couple of feet of my TiVo, so a wired connection makes more sense, and there's not reason to keep the wifi running if I'm not using it.)


Typically, using one turns off the other in these types of machines.. Plug-in a cable and WiFi turned off.. That's how it is handled on my PS3, AppleTV and Roku.

Now if the machine can use multiple network ports (at the same time) then there would be a need for enable/disable options.


----------



## Dan203

I think it might allow bridging, but someone would have to confirm. However if it's like MoCa bridging you have to enable it via the network section. If it's not enabled then the wifi is probably turned off.


----------



## aaronwt

ppartekim said:


> ..........
> Updating right away like seeing the UPS guy park and get out of his truck but then stop to answer several calls before walking all the way to my door....


----------



## jcthorne

ppartekim said:


> Ok, see the line "Ethernet port (10/100/1000 Mbps)", didn't see where it states the wireless speeds...


Followup on the Ethernet speeds. No matter what the specs on the Tivo web site state, the basic model does NOT have Gbit Ethernet. 10/100 only. I was pretty bummed that it did not have what was advertised.


----------



## dswallow

jcthorne said:


> Followup on the Ethernet speeds. No matter what the specs on the Tivo web site state, the basic model does NOT have Gbit Ethernet. 10/100 only. I was pretty bummed that it did not have what was advertised.


The Pro model is definitely connecting to my switch at 1Gbps/Full Duplex. I checked the config info of that port of the switch via its online management interface.


----------



## Machingon

@aaronwt, @Dan203

That is fascinating stuff! I always figured there was a good reason for the absence of the sound effects.

Just to be clear, are you confirming that the sound effects are indeed absent on the Roamio (same as the previous two generations)? If that's the case, can anyone check whether the Roamio, when set to "Dolby Digital to PCM", passes more than two channels?


----------



## Dan203

I can't confirm anything about the Roamio as I don't have one. But based on my knowledge of AC3 encoding and the licensing fees involved I'd say it's highly unlikely. Now multi-channel PCM might be possible. That's relatively common on modern BD players.


----------



## Fofer

jcthorne said:


> Followup on the Ethernet speeds. No matter what the specs on the Tivo web site state, the basic model does NOT have Gbit Ethernet. 10/100 only. I was pretty bummed that it did not have what was advertised.


Wow, how do you know this? You already have a basic Roamio set up and you've tested the etherney?

You should complain to TiVo -- at the very least they should update their website so it doesn't lie.


----------



## mattack

innocentfreak said:


> I am surprised there is no upgrade offer to transfer lifetime. We have seen one every new series that gets released.


Was there one to S2? I don't remember for sure. Maybe there was, but IMHO, the S2 (until the S2DT) wasn't worth "upgrading" to. I'm a late adopter, but even my relatively recently bought P4 + Tivo Stream could be easily replaced with a Roamio, and if I get rid of a lifetime TivoHD too, that hopefully would come CLOSE to the overall price.

There was a $200 lifetime transfer to S3 & TivoHD, and that's how I got off my S1s.. There was no lifetime transfer to Premieres (at least not from S3/TivoHD -- I know about the various $99 lifetime offers a few have been able to get -- that's not a transfer either btw).


----------



## innocentfreak

mattack said:


> Was there one to S2? I don't remember for sure. Maybe there was, but IMHO, the S2 (until the S2DT) wasn't worth "upgrading" to. I'm a late adopter, but even my relatively recently bought P4 + Tivo Stream could be easily replaced with a Roamio, and if I get rid of a lifetime TivoHD too, that hopefully would come CLOSE to the overall price.
> 
> There was a $200 lifetime transfer to S3 & TivoHD, and that's how I got off my S1s.. There was no lifetime transfer to Premieres (at least not from S3/TivoHD -- I know about the various $99 lifetime offers a few have been able to get -- that's not a transfer either btw).


The series 2 didn't have one that I know of, but it also didn't have a launch iirc. Someone opened one to upgrade and saw it had new internals from a s1. I might be remembering wrong though.

There wasn't a transfer to the Premiere but lifetime was $100 off on top of the MSD if you bought from TiVo so $199 if you had an eligible box. I think the hardware was on sale if you opted for monthly instead. You got to keep lifetime on the old box also.


----------



## DaveDFW

BiloxiGeek said:


> Where did you see that table?
> 
> According to weaknees.com all three are 10/100 NIC's. That website is the only one I've seen so far that actually shows the speeds. Everywhere else I've looked only show "Ethernet", no specific speeds.


The cnet table is the one I saw:

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-video-recorders-dvrs/tivo-roamio-pro/4505-6474_7-35826606.html


----------



## mattack

Dan203 said:


> From the reviews it sounds like some of the settings screens are still SD, but they updated them slightly to mimic the new look. However it looks like the rest of the UI was finally updated to HD. But I think Wish Lists and Browse By Time/Channel are the only screens not in the settings section that hadn't been updated yet anyway, so really they just added a few more HD screens like they have in every update since the Premiere release.


Browse by time/channel are the ones that I run into *daily*. So has anyone CONFIRMED on the Roamio that these ones are or not updated? You said "I think"...


----------



## mattack

aaronwt said:


> Just run the HDMI output through a 1x2 hdmi spliiter. Connect on eoutput to the TV and don't connect anything to the other output. That solves any problems when the Tv is off or on a different input. This works with the Premieres and S3 boxes so i would expect it to also work with the Roamio.


Do you mean a powered splitter, or would a non-powered splitter work for this too?

e.g.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2


----------



## jmoline

I have an S3 OLED using a tuning adapter on Brighthouse in Florida. Can all 6 tuners be active at the same time? If not, how many an be?


----------



## Dan203

mattack said:


> Browse by time/channel are the ones that I run into *daily*. So has anyone CONFIRMED on the Roamio that these ones are or not updated? You said "I think"...


Actually I haven't seen anyone specifically mention those. I've seen mentions of the WL section, but the only other clue is people saying there are still SD screens in the options section implying everything else is done. You should ask in the thread where people have them already.


----------



## Dan203

jmoline said:


> I have an S3 OLED using a tuning adapter on Brighthouse in Florida. Can all 6 tuners be active at the same time? If not, how many an be?


Yes. A single CableCARD and TA can handle up to 6 tuners.


----------



## Troy J B

mattack said:


> Browse by time/channel are the ones that I run into *daily*. So has anyone CONFIRMED on the Roamio that these ones are or not updated? You said "I think"...


The "Set Up a Manual Recording" is updated.
The "Find by Time" & "Find by Channel" are not.


----------



## Dan203

That was already updated on the Premiere in the last software update.


----------



## Fofer

I guess the Roamio's UI was forked off before that update made its way to the Premiere.

Yeesh.


----------



## Rose4uKY

I ordered a P4 on July 17th and I told them I was moving on the 26th. I asked when I bought if a new one was going to be out anytime soon like in the next month or two and was told no and now I see this new Tivo came out yesterday. I ordered on the 17th got it a few days later and activated it on the 26th. Do you think they will let me return and get this new one. It says I have 30 days and I ordered on the 17th and tomorrow will be the 22nd. I have been with them 10 years and was debating whether to get the Hopper with Dish or stick with Tivo which I did. They gave me a free mocha and and a new P4 2TB for 399. We were coming from S3's so if we can get this new one and have to get the 150 HD/1200 hour 1TB will still be happy. But we have Android tablets and phones no Ipad. I'm calling Tivo 1st thing in the am.


----------



## Dan203

Fofer said:


> I guess the Roamio's UI was forked off before that update made its way to the Premiere.
> 
> Yeesh.


No I meant Manual Recordings. Find By Time/Channel are still SD on the Premiere.


----------



## aaronwt

mattack said:


> Do you mean a powered splitter, or would a non-powered splitter work for this too?
> 
> e.g.
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2


It needs to be a powered splitter.


----------



## SugarBowl

Rose4uKY said:


> I ordered a P4 on July 17th and I told them I was moving on the 26th. I asked when I bought if a new one was going to be out anytime soon like in the next month or two and was told no and now I see this new Tivo came out yesterday. I ordered on the 17th got it a few days later and activated it on the 26th. Do you think they will let me return and get this new one. It says I have 30 days and I ordered on the 17th and tomorrow will be the 22nd. I have been with them 10 years and was debating whether to get the Hopper with Dish or stick with Tivo which I did. They gave me a free mocha and and a new P4 2TB for 399. We were coming from S3's so if we can get this new one and have to get the 150 HD/1200 hour 1TB will still be happy. But we have Android tablets and phones no Ipad. I'm calling Tivo 1st thing in the am.


22 - 17 = 5 days. This is less than the 30 days advertised. My guess is you can return it.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

SugarBowl said:


> 22 - 17 = 5 days. This is less than the 30 days advertised. My guess is you can return it.


August 22 - July 17 = > 30 days, I think he's out of luck.


----------



## zgamer

mattack said:


> Do you mean a powered splitter, or would a non-powered splitter work for this too?
> 
> e.g.
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2


Powered, been using that setup paired with some HDMI over Cat6 adapters between the living room and bedroom for a little over a year. Bedroom remote is done via smartphone.


----------



## jcthorne

Fofer said:


> Wow, how do you know this? You already have a basic Roamio set up and you've tested the etherney?
> 
> You should complain to TiVo -- at the very least they should update their website so it doesn't lie.


I do have my Roamio set up and running...mostly. But yes, the Ethernet deficiency is confirmed not as advertised.


----------



## Rose4uKY

I know we just bought the P4 a few weeks ago and went from a series 3 with only 20HD hours to 300HD 2TB and now we want to return and were going to have to get the the 150HD 1TB which is still better than our old series 3 but there's just two of us and I think 150 will be enough. I'm trying to call Tivo now and there not open yet.



innocentfreak said:


> Seeing the Roamio intro video...it really seems they needed a 2TB model. It jumps from 75 hours to 150 to 450.


----------



## Fofer

SugarBowl said:


> 22 - 17 = 5 days. This is less than the 30 days advertised. My guess is you can return it.


Your numbers are reversed. It would be 17 - 22 = *-5*

Ordered on Jul 17
Received a few days later
Activated on July 26
Wanted to return it on August 22

Hopefully the countdown begins when the package was delivered, or when the unit was activated (I doubt it) to earn more time here -- or hopefully the CSR makes a kind exception for Rose4uKY...

Eager to hear how this one turns out!


----------



## Fofer

innocentfreak said:


> Seeing the Roamio intro video...it really seems they needed a 2TB model. It jumps from 75 hours to 150 to 450.


Not sure where else I mentioned this already, but weaknees.com already has the internal 2TB upgraded Roamio, for $349:

TiVo Roamio - 2TB Drive for up to 300 HD hours
http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-roamio-series5.php


----------



## ncbill

A CSR (supervisor or not) or engineer isn't going to know the law.

The company remains legally bound to honor the warranty (assuming you didn't break anything when you upgraded the drive).

The question becomes do you want to go through the hassle of enforcing the above, potentially via court?

Given the amount involved, and the short initial warranty period most wouldn't bother.

And so would do what you did, upgrading the drive immediately then testing the unit, returning it to the retailer during the return period if any problems are found.



aaronwt said:


> Sure it can. And I've had this happen to me in the past in 2007 when the TiVoHD was launched.. If the box is opened up the warranty is technically void. It's just a matter of whether they enforce it or not. I was not talking to a CSR but an engineer, Supervisor, and a couple of other people. Since they can tell when the hard drive has been upgraded, they would not trouble shoot a launch TiVoHD I had(It had a problem where analog channels would send out mono audio instead of stereo. It ended up being a software issue) because it was not under warranty since the box was opened when the hard drive was replaced.


----------



## Fofer

jcthorne said:


> I do have my Roamio set up and running...mostly. But yes, the Ethernet deficiency is confirmed not as advertised.


Wow, that sucks, and TiVo should change their "comparative specs" grid on their website. Because right now it is blatant false advertising.

For a device that will handle lots of streaming within the LAN, there will be a pretty big difference between 10/100 and gigabit.

It also sucks that someone who deliberately chooses the base model for the possibility of OTA (HD antenna) compatibility, can't also have gigabit ethernet. Why, TiVo, why?!?!


----------



## Machingon

jcthorne said:


> I do have my Roamio set up and running...mostly.


Congrats! Since you're one of the first, could you tell us whether you can hear the sound effects over Dolby Digital?


----------



## jcthorne

If you are on the menus, yes. If you are playing a show that is dd5.1, no. Its same as the premiere. The Tivo cannot encode anything to DD5.1 so if the sound track it is currently using is DD, the sound effects are not inserted.


----------



## dswallow

Fofer said:


> Your numbers are reversed. It would be 17 - 22 = *-5*
> 
> Ordered on Jul 17
> Received a few days later
> Activated on July 26
> Wanted to return it on August 22
> 
> Hopefully the countdown begins when the package was delivered, or when the unit was activated (I doubt it) to earn more time here -- or hopefully the CSR makes a kind exception for Rose4uKY...
> 
> Eager to hear how this one turns out!


From TiVo:

If you cancel *within 30 days of activation (which is typically the date your order ships)*, you will receive a full refund if you return the TiVo box and accessory, if applicable, within 15 days of cancellation.

So it seems to technically hinge on whether it arrived activated or it really required an activation step when it was set up. Though it seems rather disingenuous to include days when the unit isn't even in your possession as a part of the countdown period for their money-back guarantee.


----------



## aindik

Fofer said:


> Wow, that sucks, and TiVo should change their "comparative specs" grid on their website. Because right now it is blatant false advertising.
> 
> For a device that will handle lots of streaming within the LAN, there will be a pretty big difference between 10/100 and gigabit.
> 
> It also sucks that someone who deliberately chooses the base model for the possibility of OTA (HD antenna) compatibility, can't also have gigabit ethernet. Why, TiVo, why?!?!


Why couldn't they just put OTA in all three models?


----------



## bradleys

aindik said:


> Why couldn't they just put OTA in all three models?


OK... This is a tuner issue, there is only a chip currently on the market that can handle 4 OTA tuners.

In the P2 models, the units had 4 tuners, 2 were dedicated to cable and 2 were dedicated to OTA. Nothing has changed - this is also why you need to choose between Cable or OTA.

They technically could do it, but it would basically be like putting two separate units into one box. That translate to cost.

I am sure somebody will "correct" my technical terminolgy little, but this is the reason we have what we have.


----------



## DaveDFW

aindik said:


> Why couldn't they just put OTA in all three models?


Isn't Tivo's future focus really centered on creating hardware for resale to their cable partners? These cable operators have no interest in OTA capability, therefore that feature was not included in the Plus and Pro.

The use of 10/100 ethernet in the base Roamio is a little more puzzling. Gigabit ethernet on a chip is so ubiquitous Tivo probably had to pay a premium to source one that only does 10/100.


----------



## Fofer

aindik said:


> Why couldn't they just put OTA in all three models?


I *think* because, this is TiVo, and one of TiVo's initiatives in their Mission Statement is, finding new and surprising ways to disappoint us. :-/


----------



## bradleys

DaveDFW said:


> Isn't Tivo's future focus really centered on creating hardware for resale to their cable partners? These cable operators have no interest in OTA capability, therefore that feature was not included in the Plus and Pro.


Not the reason



Fofer said:


> I *think* because, this is TiVo, and one of TiVo's initiatives in their Mission Statement is, finding new and surprising ways to disappoint us. :-/


Very constructive

As I said: This is a tuner and cost issue.

In the P2 models, the units had 4 tuners, 2 were dedicated to cable and 2 were dedicated to OTA. Nothing has changed - this is also why you need to choose between Cable or OTA in the base unit.

They technically could do it, but it would basically be like putting two separate units into one box. That translate to cost.

I am sure somebody will "correct" my technical terminolgy little, but this is the reason we have what we have.


----------



## mr_smits

DaveDFW said:


> The use of 10/100 ethernet in the base Roamio is a little more puzzling. Gigabit ethernet on a chip is so ubiquitous Tivo probably had to pay a premium to source one that only does 10/100.


I was thinking the same thing. It must have made sense at one point in the development cycle.


----------



## Keen

Dan203 said:


> Maybe, or maybe it's just my receiver. I watch a lot of movies on Netflix and VUDU and I always have to back up after I pause them because I get a couple seconds of silence. But with TiVo recordings the audio starts playing immediately so I never have to do that.


It's your receiver. Last time I bought a receiver, the thing had short silences after trickplay. I upgraded to the next higher-line of receiver from the same manufacturer, and the silences went away.


----------



## Machingon

jcthorne said:


> If you are on the menus, yes. If you are playing a show that is dd5.1, no. Its same as the premiere. The Tivo cannot encode anything to DD5.1 so if the sound track it is currently using is DD, the sound effects are not inserted.


Thanks for confirming that. I would ask you to please check whether when set to "Dolby Digital to PCM" in the settings it passes more than just the left and right channels, but I don't know if you would even be able to tell (and I don't want to be a complete PITA) 

The truth is I'm not interested in the sound effects per se. I have a newish Onkyo receiver and a TiVo HD that when set to Dolby Digital will often generate awful noises (as also detailed in the TiVo HD FAQ). The same problem happens with the Premiere, and based on your findings, probably with the Roamio as well. TiVo's solution, as I mentioned before, is to change the setting from "Dolby Digital" to "Dolby Digital to PCM", but at least in the Series 3 hardware, this means forgoing true surround as it passes only two channels to the receiver.

The TiVo sounds is just my shorthand way of telling whether TiVo has changed how they handle this, as I assume most people don't have this problem and therefore can't test for it directly. But if any owners have their Roamio hooked up to an Onkyo, we'd love to hear from you!


----------



## Kolenka

mr_smits said:


> I was thinking the same thing. It must have made sense at one point in the development cycle.


It is still cheaper to make a 10/100 switch than it is to make a Gigabit switch. The BOM costs are still noticeably different because of chip yields. If I assume that the surface area of a 10/100 chipset is smaller, then I can get more chips per wafer than I can for the 10/100/1000 chipset. So I get more for the same material cost, and I waste less material on defects in the wafer, helping push yield %s higher as well. All that translates into a cheaper cost. The only time that doesn't really work is when the ethernet is part of the SoC.

I can get Netgear's "Pro" 10/100 switch for less than their consumer 10/100/1000 switch at retail.


----------



## sbiller

DaveDFW said:


> Isn't Tivo's future focus really centered on creating hardware for resale to their cable partners? These cable operators have no interest in OTA capability, therefore that feature was not included in the Plus and Pro.
> 
> The use of 10/100 ethernet in the base Roamio is a little more puzzling. Gigabit ethernet on a chip is so ubiquitous Tivo probably had to pay a premium to source one that only does 10/100.


TiVo is focused on software and services. Some of their cable partners are already starting to shift away from TiVo provided hardware to hardware provided by Pace running TiVo software. All of TiVo's international deployments are running TiVo software on Cisco/Samsung/Pace boxes. The Roamio boxes clearly leapfrog most of the MSO boxes running TiVo software so I'm guessing that the MSO Version of the Roamio (T6) will sell very well to TiVo's MSO partners. The Pace XG1 has the advantage of being a double-play box (included DOCSIS modem) and lower cost over the 6-Tuner Roamio Plus.


----------



## jcthorne

There are only 2 audio choices on Roamio. Dolby Digital and PCM. There is no "Dolby to PCM"

PCM is stereo audio only. 

Interestingly, I had the same trouble with my Onkyo Integra receiver. I ended up replacing it with a mid range Yamaha and outboard amplifiers. The Yamaha does not have the audio glitches with the varying audio stream. The problem is in your receiver. Its decoder is out of date and no easy way to upgrade it without replacing the entire unit.

As far as I can tell, the audio programming on the Roamio works exactly like that on the Premiere at them moment.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Ok so Tivo is letting me return the P4. She is sending me info in email on how to return and I have 15 days to return and should get the new Romio within 6 business days. We weren't sure what to do though for a couple of reasons one we don't have ipads or anything IOS we have Android phones and tablets. But we did want the latest Tivo box out there and I was told nothing would be out before the 1st of the year and the Romio has the built in streamer and 6 tuners but were losing 300HD/2000 hours to 150HD/1200 hours but I think will be fine with that. I record a lot of primetime shows in the fall so now we really won't have to worry about stuff not recording plus I do still have my one Lifetime S3 hooked up here cause I had shows on it to watch. 

Problem is when I bought the P4 there was a promotion going on and since I had LT on my LR Tivo and got the multi discount on the bedroom ay 6.95 I was able to keep that on the P4. But now with the new box it's going to be 14.99 plus we got 2 minis at 5.99 a piece. Can't really afford LT right now so we had to think for a minute is it worth it but we wanted the newest Tivo and decided to go ahead and do it. 

So now she had to deactivate the P4 but she said there is usually a 3 day grace period so can we not record at all not even manually? And our new Romio will be here within 6 business days and we have 15 to return the P4. We don't want to return P4 till new one gets here. And abolut Slingbox she said it's a feature coming soon so it's not on there yet? And with Slingbox will I be able to watch my shows at work on my android tablet with the Slingbox app? I can transfer shows now and convert them I think for my tablet if I wanted to but Slingbox seems much easier. 

Anyway thanks and I am glad it worked out for me and now I want to hear more about this new device and how people like it. Can't really compare it to P4 for me cause only had P4 for a few weeks but I am sure will like it better and 150 HD house should be enough for us.


----------



## aindik

I've had sound effects turned off on my TiVos since 2002.


----------



## dswallow

aindik said:


> I've had sound effects turned off on my TiVos since 2002.


It would be amusing if TiVo had a different set of sounds to use for a short period after sound effects were turned on after having been off for some extended period -- squeaky versions for instance.


----------



## Fofer

Rose4uKY said:


> And abolut Slingbox she said it's a feature coming soon so it's not on there yet? And with Slingbox will I be able to watch my shows at work on my android tablet with the Slingbox app? I can transfer shows now and convert them I think for my tablet if I wanted to but Slingbox seems much easier.


TiVo's out-of-home streaming will be "like" Slingbox, in that it allows for out-of-home streaming -- but it's not actually Slingbox. You'd need the TiVo app, not the Slingbox one in order to use it. And the iOS app is getting this feature first, I've no idea when it will come to Android.

That being said, assuming TiVo works it so that the quality of the stream intelligently adapts to the speed of your connection, I'd say their implementation will be better than Slingboxes (at least, if you already have the compatible pieces in place.) Instead of transcoding the entire UI and playback on-the-fly, and giving you a "virtual remote control" like the Slingbox does, it will simply integrate out-of-home downloading and streaming to the existing (very well designed) TiVo app.

Slingbox is great in that it is very flexible, can be used with more hardware and platforms. But hopefully the control and integration of TiVo's stream (and the upcoming improvements) will be a little more elegant.


----------



## BadDuck

Question that I have been wondering when out of home streaming becomes available, how is this going to work to get in on a TV? I know they will go to iOS and later droid devices but at least with sling you can use the app on a connected media streamer. Do you think you could use a stream as a stand alone out of home streamer? Possible apps on roku or another streamer?


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

Rose4uKY said:


> Ok so Tivo is letting me return the P4. She is sending me info in email on how to return and I have 15 days to return and should get the new Romio within 6 business days. We weren't sure what to do though for a couple of reasons one we don't have ipads or anything IOS we have Android phones and tablets. But we did want the latest Tivo box out there and I was told nothing would be out before the 1st of the year and the Romio has the built in streamer and 6 tuners but were losing 300HD/2000 hours to 150HD/1200 hours but I think will be fine with that. I record a lot of primetime shows in the fall so now we really won't have to worry about stuff not recording plus I do still have my one Lifetime S3 hooked up here cause I had shows on it to watch.
> 
> Problem is when I bought the P4 there was a promotion going on and since I had LT on my LR Tivo and got the multi discount on the bedroom ay 6.95 I was able to keep that on the P4. But now with the new box it's going to be 14.99 plus we got 2 minis at 5.99 a piece. Can't really afford LT right now so we had to think for a minute is it worth it but we wanted the newest Tivo and decided to go ahead and do it.
> 
> Anyway thanks and I am glad it worked out for me and now I want to hear more about this new device and how people like it. Can't really compare it to P4 for me cause only had P4 for a few weeks but I am sure will like it better and 150 HD house should be enough for us.


Rose4uKY - glad to hear they are working with you.

Rule of thumb for the future - CSRs (even TiVo) don't really know anything. Google is your friend (which would have led you to Zatz). We've known for some time (months) that a new tivo was coming, and even had a general idea of release date.

And bummer about not being able to afford lifetime. I, too am like you (on a grandfather monthly plan for one tivo). But even at that lower rate, i am losing money in the long run because I did not get Lifetime on my original TiVo HD boxes. I learned my lesson, and am going with lifetime on my roamio and mini, and will go lifetime from now on (especially for benefit of resale value).


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Fofer said:


> Wow, that sucks, and TiVo should change their "comparative specs" grid on their website. Because right now it is blatant false advertising.
> 
> For a device that will handle lots of streaming within the LAN, there will be a pretty big difference between 10/100 and gigabit.
> 
> It also sucks that someone who deliberately chooses the base model for the possibility of OTA (HD antenna) compatibility, can't also have gigabit ethernet. Why, TiVo, why?!?!


People seem to forget every generation that we never get full transfer speed anyway. The transfers are limited by CPU bandwidth. Transfers max out at roughly 80mbps even on the XL4/P4 with gigabit.


----------



## Machingon

jcthorne said:


> Interestingly, I had the same trouble with my Onkyo Integra receiver. I ended up replacing it with a mid range Yamaha and outboard amplifiers. The Yamaha does not have the audio glitches with the varying audio stream. The problem is in your receiver. Its decoder is out of date and no easy way to upgrade it without replacing the entire unit.


Thanks for reporting back! And sorry for not noticing that you had actually mentioned your issue with the Integra in one of the posts I linked to. 

I don't think Onkyo is entirely at fault. Other sources connected to it don't have this problem. The Xbox 360, for example, will happily go from playing a stereo MP3 to playing a 5.1 game to playing sound effects as you navigate the UI, all over Dolby Digital, with nary a click from the receiver. I suppose it has the DD encoding license that Dan203 thinks is too expensive for TiVo.

I think TiVos send garbage over the DD stream when a program ends, when you do trick play, etc. Other receivers may handle it better, maybe masking it with silence until they get a correctly-formed stream, possibly at the expense of a longer stretch with no audio. Onkyos apparently play whatever they're sent, speakers and eardrums be damned. 

I don't know who's "at fault", but I think either party could fix it, and whoever does first gets my money. I guess I was hoping it would be TiVo so I would have no excuse to upgrade.


----------



## ppartekim

Fofer said:


> Wow, that sucks, and TiVo should change their "comparative specs" grid on their website. Because right now it is blatant false advertising.
> 
> For a device that will handle lots of streaming within the LAN, there will be a pretty big difference between 10/100 and gigabit.
> 
> It also sucks that someone who deliberately chooses the base model for the possibility of OTA (HD antenna) compatibility, can't also have gigabit ethernet. Why, TiVo, why?!?!


Ok, so it has 100 vs 1Gb, which is slower. BUT, my internet connection is only 50Mbs so 100 is still twice as much bandwidth than I have coming in...

Also, my Roku and AppleTV only have 100Mb and I have no stuttering on their streams. Seems that while Gb is cool it will only matter when Cable/Uverse have the ability to subscribe to Gb speeds and by then I will have upgraded anyway.

Also for in-house networks, my wife daily streams movies from our Mac mini (Gb) to the Roku and except for a two second delay at the start of the movie there are no stutters or pauses due to lack of bandwidth. So, I am fine with the 10/100 on the base (but the nerd in me wants the Gb).


----------



## Fofer

BigJimOutlaw said:


> People seem to forget every generation that we never get full transfer speed anyway. The transfers are limited by CPU bandwidth. That's why we max out at roughly 80mbps even on the XL4/P4 with gigabit.


So the Roamio base, Plus and Pro all use the same CPU?

I know this is TiVo, so anything's possible, but I guess I was thinking the transfers wouldn't be as limited on the gigabit models, that the CPU bandwidth would be increased as well. These devices will be streaming a lot more, and why else would they differentiate the ethernet if it wasn't noticeably better on the higher end models?


----------



## Fofer

ppartekim said:


> Ok, so it has 100 vs 1Gb, which is slower. BUT, my internet connection is only 50Mbs so 100 is still twice as much bandwidth than I have coming in...
> 
> Also, my Roku and AppleTV only have 100Mb and I have no stuttering on their streams. Seems that while Gb is cool it will only matter when Cable/Uverse have the ability to subscribe to Gb speeds and by then I will have upgraded anyway.
> 
> Also for in-house networks, my wife daily streams movies from our Mac mini (Gb) to the Roku and except for a two second delay at the start of the movie there are no stutters or pauses due to lack of bandwidth. So, I am fine with the 10/100 on the base (but the nerd in me wants the Gb).


The gigabit comes in handy when you're NOT watching in real time as it streams... IE: you want to fast forward to halfway into the show... transporting/scrubbing in the timeline is faster via GB than it is with 10/100.


----------



## hefe

ppartekim said:


> Ok, so it has 100 vs 1Gb, which is slower. BUT, my internet connection is only 50Mbs so 100 is still twice as much bandwidth than I have coming in...
> 
> Also, my Roku and AppleTV only have 100Mb and I have no stuttering on their streams. Seems that while Gb is cool it will only matter when Cable/Uverse have the ability to subscribe to Gb speeds and by then I will have upgraded anyway.
> 
> Also for in-house networks, my wife daily streams movies from our Mac mini (Gb) to the Roku and except for a two second delay at the start of the movie there are no stutters or pauses due to lack of bandwidth. So, I am fine with the 10/100 on the base (but the nerd in me wants the Gb).


It's not a huge deal, but it's not unreasonable to put in Gb. It's not bleeding edge anymore. My computers and switches are all Gb, so I get faster transfers where the devices comply. I do push and pull shows from TiVos, and I do have a lot of other network traffic on my LAN. It just would be a nice thing to have.


----------



## Fofer

BadDuck said:


> Question that I have been wondering when out of home streaming becomes available, how is this going to work to get in on a TV? I know they will go to iOS and later droid devices but at least with sling you can use the app on a connected media streamer. Do you think you could use a stream as a stand alone out of home streamer? Possible apps on roku or another streamer?


That's what the TiVo Mini is for, at least in the home.

As far as out of home streaming, to another TV? My (jailbroken) iPad lets me watch the TiVo app on a TV, so I guess that's a workable kludge.


----------



## TC25D

Big Boy Laroux said:


> I learned my lesson, and am going with lifetime on my roamio and mini, and will go lifetime from now on (especially for benefit of resale value).


Weren't some people reporting they could not transfer lifetime to the Roamio?


----------



## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> So the Roamio base, Plus and Pro all use the same CPU?
> 
> I know this is TiVo, so anything's possible, but I guess I was thinking the transfers wouldn't be as limited on the gigabit models, that the CPU bandwidth would be increased as well. These devices will be streaming a lot more, and why else would they differentiate the ethernet if it wasn't noticeably better on the higher end models?


The Elite already exceeds 100mb/s when maxing out it's streams. At least that was the case when I got my launch Elite. So I would expect the Roamio plus and pro to be able to exceed that when it also get up to a high number of streams.


----------



## tivogurl

DaveDFW said:


> The use of 10/100 ethernet in the base Roamio is a little more puzzling. Gigabit ethernet on a chip is so ubiquitous Tivo probably had to pay a premium to source one that only does 10/100.


Disable gigabit in software would make more sense. It's how IBM used to differentiate its mainframes back in the 70s. If you wanted a faster machine, just do a software change :down:


----------



## hefe

TC25D said:


> Weren't some people reporting they could not transfer lifetime to the Roamio?


A better question, has anyone reported that they _could_?

I didn't think that was at all possible.


----------



## BadDuck

Fofer said:


> That's what the TiVo Mini is for, at least in the home.
> 
> As far as out of home streaming, to another TV? My (jailbroken) iPad lets me watch the TiVo app on a TV, so I guess that's a workable kludge.


Thanks for the response, I thought of some possible work arounds like iphone/ipad to apple TV but I would assume airplay would be disabled within the app. It would be nice to have a box that could do it for you. Doubtful but it would be sweet if you could use the mini as a out of home stand alone streamer for your roamio or p4/stream setup.


----------



## Fofer

TC25D said:


> Weren't some people reporting they could not transfer lifetime to the Roamio?


That's never been mentioned as an option, as far as I know. But folks are getting $100 Multi Service Discounts if they already have lifetimed TiVos.

Question about that -- once you take advantage of said discount to get another lifetimed TiVo, can you sell your older TiVo w/Lifetime? Or do you need to keep it on your account?


----------



## TC25D

hefe said:


> A better question, has anyone reported that they _could_?
> 
> I didn't think that was at all possible.


Agreed.

I understand an older TiVo with a lifetime subscription being more valuable when selling it than one without a lifetime, but I was burned many years ago when I bought lifetime subscriptions for two ReplayTVs.  Not that TiVo will go out of business, but if they would, or get bought out, there's no guarantee the lifetime subs would be honored by whoever would buy them out.


----------



## hefe

TC25D said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I understand an older TiVo with a lifetime subscription being more valuable when selling it than one without a lifetime, but I was burned many years ago when I bought lifetime subscriptions for two ReplayTVs.  Not that TiVo will go out of business, but if they would, or get bought out, there's no guarantee the lifetime subs would be honored by whoever would buy them out.


Well, a contract is a contract, and I would think that anybody buying a company is buying all their assets and liabilities and obligations. But who knows, corporations have been known to find loopholes.


----------



## tough joe

Lifetime service stays with the tivo unit regardless of any discount a prior lifetime service gives you.

Ex. You have Tivo lifetime on box A. You buy Tivo lifetime for box B. Box A lifetime qualifies you for a Box B lifetime discount.

You end up with 2 tivos both with lifetime.

In very rare circumstances, "lifetime service" has been transfered from box A to Box B, thus leaving Box A with no service.

But purchasing lifetime on a new box even with a discount does not eliminate lifetime on your old box.

You may sell the old box online with lifetime to make back some $$.

Anthony



Fofer said:


> That's never been mentioned as an option, as far as I know. But folks are getting $100 Multi Service Discounts if they already have lifetimed TiVos.
> 
> Question about that -- once you take advantage of said discount to get another lifetimed TiVo, can you sell your older TiVo w/Lifetime? Or do you need to keep it on your account?


----------



## atmuscarella

TC25D said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I understand an older TiVo with a lifetime subscription being more valuable when selling it than one without a lifetime, but I was burned many years ago when I bought lifetime subscriptions for two ReplayTVs.  Not that TiVo will go out of business, but if they would, or get bought out, there's no guarantee the lifetime subs would be honored by whoever would buy them out.


Did you really get burned? Or did the lifetime subs still end up costing you allot less than if you had paid monthly for the time their service was still available?


----------



## TC25D

atmuscarella said:


> Did you really get burned? Or did the lifetime subs still end up costing you allot less than if you had paid monthly for the time their service was still available?


It was so long ago, I can't remember if I saved money over the monthly fees or not. It probably did since I bought them pretty early in their life cycle.


----------



## tough joe

I swear to god if this new S5 tivo locks up like my XL4 had.... Im writing a really stern letter. (lol)


----------



## tivogurl

TC25D said:


> I understand an older TiVo with a lifetime subscription being more valuable when selling it than one without a lifetime


Speaking of which, is there any consensus on when one should buy lifetime vs monthly?

It seems like the more expensive the box the more valuable lifetime is. A $600 Roamio vs a $200 Roamio (or the $350 2tb weaknees version I'm considering). If you're upgrading early the less valuable lifetime seems. I'm not sure what TiVo's historical upgrade cycles have been, but if you're upgrading in 2-3 years it seems like you'd want the cheapest box you can tolerate.


----------



## tivogurl

hefe said:


> Well, a contract is a contract, and I would think that anybody buying a company is buying all their assets and liabilities and obligations.


They do if it's an ordinary buyout but not if it's a bankruptcy sale. In that case they get the assets free of all liabilities and contractual obligations.


----------



## tivogurl

tough joe said:


> Ex. You have Tivo lifetime on box A. You buy Tivo lifetime for box B. Box A lifetime qualifies you for a Box B lifetime discount. You end up with 2 tivos both with lifetime.


Should box A disappear, does box B still qualify you for MSD discounts on box C?


----------



## TC25D

tivogurl said:


> Speaking of which, is there any consensus on when one should buy lifetime vs monthly?


I had a chat about this with a TiVo CSR yesterday. They said if you buy the Roamio with the monthly subscription, you have 30 days to buy the lifetime. After 30 days, you are locked into the monthly subscription for 12 months.

Again, this was a CSR, so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## dswallow

Of course I can't find anything about it now, but I would have sworn that there had been some spec mentioned about the base Roamio unit which indicated it had more restricted support for streaming to other devices -- it being limited to streaming to one or two devices, versus the Plus/Pro which had higher or possibly no specific limits in place.


----------



## Das Achteck

ppartekim said:


> Also, HDFury will handle the HDMI->Component problem. Granted, not cheap. But in my house I have my two S3's, AppleTV and Roku going through one HDMI switcher -> HDFury -> ZvBox180 -> Coax to all 9 TVs in my house.


Which HDFury model are you using?


----------



## wco81

Does the Tivo iOS app support Airplay?

So you pack an AppleTV and an iPad on your trip, you can connect the AppleTV to a TV and stream recordings you have back home to the iPad and onto the AppleTV to play on the hotel TV?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Fofer said:


> So the Roamio base, Plus and Pro all use the same CPU?
> 
> I know this is TiVo, so anything's possible, but I guess I was thinking the transfers wouldn't be as limited on the gigabit models, that the CPU bandwidth would be increased as well. These devices will be streaming a lot more, and why else would they differentiate the ethernet if it wasn't noticeably better on the higher end models?


I don't know it for a fact but I'm starting to believe they use the same CPU, since the Plus/Pro models are using discreet hardware for the transcoding/streaming and moca, rather than using a CPU with those things integrated into it.

The gigabit difference is likely due to the P4/XL4/Plus/Pro's ethernet bridging (moca supports "up to 175mbps" so they don't want to suffocate the network), thus potentially having more devices to feed network bandwidth to, aside from also being Mini hosts. But video transfers themselves will have a cap based on the CPU's ability, which I guess we will learn about soon.


----------



## tatergator1

tivogurl said:


> Should box A disappear, does box B still qualify you for MSD discounts on box C?


Typically, the answer is no. The wording is somewhat vague for having a "qualifying unit" to get MSD, but practical experience over the years states that a "qualifying unit" for MSD must be a unit on which you paid the full price Lifetime (whatever it was back then). If you no longer have that unit on your account, MSD is usually denied.

I should add that a monthly subscription unit can also qualify, as long as you have been paying the full monthly rate as it was when you purchased it.


----------



## NYHeel

Fofer said:


> That's what the TiVo Mini is for, at least in the home.
> 
> As far as out of home streaming, to another TV? My (jailbroken) iPad lets me watch the TiVo app on a TV, so I guess that's a workable kludge.


Is airplay enabled on the Tivo app? I didn't think so. Does your jailbrake enable airplay?

I think airplay is going to become even more important once out of home streaming and downloading is enabled.

And another thing, I find out of home downloading to be more valuable than out of home streaming. When I'm on the move I usually don't have wifi and even when they enable cellular data streaming there are data plan issues. But I can definitely just download a show when I happen to be in a wifi area and then I can watch it later without wifi or data plan issues. That's already what I do but it's nice to lift the home network restriction so I don't have to think ahead on my downloads.

For example, I'm sitting in an airport gate waiting for my plane. I could use the airport free wifi to download a show for the flight that I previously forgot to download. Or I'm away on business all week and can use office wifi to download the previous night's new episode and watch in the hotel at night. These are all great uses that a slingbox can't handle. Hotel and airplane wifi is both bad and sometimes expensive. To me downloading is a killer feature that other devices like slingbox don't offer.


----------



## tatergator1

hefe said:


> A better question, has anyone reported that they _could_?
> 
> I didn't think that was at all possible.


Lifetime transfer promos have been offered in the past, most notably between Series 2 and Series 3, but that "transfer" still required a $199 fee.

The lifetime transfers that people have been mentioning having trouble with apply to the very early Tivo Series 1 units; Lifetime purchased in 1999/early 2000. At that time, the Lifetime Service contract was vaguely/confusingly worded such that many people were led to believe Tivo meant the purchaser's Lifetime, not the Lifetime of the Tivo box. This was clarified in early/mid 2000's, but as a goodwill gesture, Tivo opted to allow a one-time transfer of these early "Lifetime" contracts without any additional costs.

The current problem seems to boil down to the Tivo system is not currently setup to allow someone to purchase a Roamio without a contract. The solutions has been offered that the purchaser buy from Amazon/Best Buy/WeaKees, etc, and then call to transfer the old Series 1 Lifetime.


----------



## Fofer

wco81 said:


> Does the Tivo iOS app support Airplay?


Natively no, but with a jailbreak tweak installed, yes.

As best as I've tested, it's merely "full screen mirroring" though, which is very good of course, but not as good as strict Airplay of only the playing video. But it works!

"UnrestrictPremium2" is what I use to free up AirPlay (and full screen mirroring/HDMI out) on apps that otherwise try to restrict it.

And "xCon" is what I use to mask the fact that I am jailbroken to apps that complain about it. The TiVo app doesn't let you stream video if it can detect you're jailbroken.

Obviously there is no guarantee this cocktail will continue to work with any update to the TiVo app, the iOS, etc. But that is where it stands, today.


----------



## Fofer

NYHeel said:


> For example, I'm sitting in an airport gate waiting for my plane. I could use the airport free wifi to download a show for the flight that I previously forgot to download.


Except that you can expect that download to take like 3 hours per show. Airport free wifi is slow as molasses already, and chances are your home upstream isn't that fast either.

Still, this is a nice feature to be looking forward to. I'm excited about out-of-network streaming. And so are all the mobile carriers who're doing their damndest to coerce us out of (grandfathered) unlimited data plans.


----------



## Beryl

Fofer said:


> Except that you can expect that download to take like 3 hours per show. Airport free wifi is slow as molasses already, and chances are your home upstream isn't that fast either.
> 
> Still, this is a nice feature to be looking forward to. I'm excited about out-of-network streaming. And so are all the mobile carriers who're doing their damndest to coerce us out of (grandfathered) unlimited data plans.


I'm hanging on tightly to mine and will be paying a premium to upgrade my next phone to keep it. I stream TV content a lot when remote via Slingbox and Vulkano so I'm looking forward to adding TiVo stream to the mix.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

I could envision getting around the need for WiFi when remote like this: Enable the personal hotspot on my iPhone, connect my iPad to that adhoc network, connect to the TiVo at home and start streaming. iPad thinks it's on WiFi even though it's technically on an LTE network. At least you wouldn't have to suffer through the airport WiFi bottleneck.


----------



## Fofer

BiloxiGeek said:


> I could envision getting around the need for WiFi when remote like this: Enable the personal hotspot on my iPhone, connect my iPad to that adhoc network, connect to the TiVo at home and start streaming. iPad thinks it's on WiFi even though it's technically on an LTE network. At least you wouldn't have to suffer through the airport WiFi bottleneck.


I don't think it's been determined that out of network streaming/downloading will "need" WiFi (and not work over 3G/4G/LTE,) and even if so, yes, we all know about workarounds for that.

The concern is more than once you do in fact use 3G/4G/LTE for this sort of thing it'll rack up serious data charges if you're not on an unlimited plan.

That being said, once the carriers determine that enough of their customers are on a limited plan, and there aren't as many unlimited plans in effect any more, I suspect the requirements for apps that call for WiFi only will relax, and we'll be able to use 3G/4G/LTE if we want... because, heck, we'll end up paying for it and the carriers want that money. Even still, the carriers can restrict what unlimited data users can do vs. what limited data users can do.

This is what happened with FaceTime on iOS, for AT&T customers for a long while.


----------



## apw2607

TC25D said:


> I had a chat about this with a TiVo CSR yesterday. They said if you buy the Roamio with the monthly subscription, you have 30 days to buy the lifetime. After 30 days, you are locked into the monthly subscription for 12 months.
> 
> Again, this was a CSR, so take it for what it's worth.


Thats true. I did that with my old premier. However, it may only apply if you purchased the Tivo from another supplier, such as a best buy or amazon. I originally purchased the monthly, and when I looked at my account, it said i have xxx days left to change this to lifetime if I wanted. In the end I did


----------



## andyw715

dswallow said:


> It would be amusing if TiVo had a different set of sounds to use for a short period after sound effects were turned on after having been off for some extended period -- squeaky versions for instance.


Every once in a while the TiVo sounds from my HD sound quite tinny. Not sure if its an HDMI handshake issue or what. This is usually when going from watching a live or recorded show to NPL


----------



## NYHeel

Fofer said:


> I don't think it's been determined that out of network streaming/downloading will "need" WiFi (and not work over 3G/4G/LTE,) and even if so, yes, we all know about workarounds for that.
> 
> The concern is more than once you do in fact use 3G/4G/LTE for this sort of thing it'll rack up serious data charges if you're not on an unlimited plan.
> 
> That being said, once the carriers determine that enough of their customers are on a limited plan, and there aren't as many unlimited plans in effect any more, I suspect the requirements for apps that call for WiFi only will relax, and we'll be able to use 3G/4G/LTE if we want... because, heck, we'll end up paying for it and the carriers want that money. Even still, the carriers can restrict what unlimited data users can do vs. what limited data users can do.
> 
> This is what happened with FaceTime on iOS, for AT&T customers for a long while.


Actually I think Tivo did say this. I think it was Tom Rodgers during one of his interviews. One of the reviews might have mentioned it as well.


----------



## ppartekim

Das Achteck said:


> Which HDFury model are you using?


Using the HDFury3 since I only needed component and no 3D.


----------



## lessd

hefe said:


> Well, a contract is a contract, and I would think that anybody buying a company is buying all their assets and liabilities and obligations. But who knows, corporations have been known to find loopholes.


Many co that are bought out just sell the assets, not the liabilities, in TiVo case, being a public co, that type of purchase would not be easy as Dell is finding out.
My co would only purchase the assets of another co. NEVER all the liabilities, but we never purchased a public co.


----------



## ncbill

Tivo has also offered $199 lifetime in the past to move Premiere overstock.

So if one or more of the new Roamio models isn't selling a couple of years from now...



tatergator1 said:


> Lifetime transfer promos have been offered in the past, most notably between Series 2 and Series 3, but that "transfer" still required a $199 fee.


----------



## tvn

From what I'm reading from Tivo's emails, it seems as though I'll need a MOCA adapter attached to my router. The Roamio Plus will be in a room without ethernet. So, I'm assuming the wireless is only for connections, not passing MOCa to the Roamio Plus with built-in MOCA. I plan to have four Minis. Can anyone confirm that I need the MOCA adapter, just like with the Premiere XL 4?


----------



## dswallow

While it's always good (and maybe even fun) to look for the best deals; there's also a point where the savings isn't worth spending too much extra time seeking it out or agonizing over decisions about it.

For many, especially those who essentially live paycheck-to-paycheck, the present-value of the money is of far greater value to them than the potential savings three years down the road, or more. It's the rare techie gadget that isn't superceded by something newer/faster/better/cheaper within 3 to 4 years -- and often much earlier -- anyway. Sure, you'll be able to find people that have had their receivers used and active for longer, but there's lots of cases where that won't be the case, too.


----------



## dswallow

tvn said:


> From what I'm reading from Tivo's emails, it seems as though I'll need a MOCA adapter attached to my router. The Roamio Plus will be in a room without ethernet. So, I'm assuming the wireless is only for connections, not passing MOCa to the Roamio Plus with built-in MOCA. I plan to have four Minis. Can anyone confirm that I need the MOCA adapter, just like with the Premiere XL 4?


You will need a device someplace that bridges the ethernet connection (your internet) to the MoCA network. A Roamio Plus or Pro could be that device.

One thing that might be possible is if the wireless network connection in the Roamio Plus/Pro can bridge to the MoCA network like it can between the wired ethernet and MoCA network. Since it's really just the guide data/updates/live UI data that you need internet/ethernet connectivity for.

Someone who has chosen to use the wireless connection would need to look to see if the option to bridge the MoCA network exists for them, or if it's only there for wired ethernet configurations.


----------



## innocentfreak

ncbill said:


> Tivo has also offered $199 lifetime in the past to move Premiere overstock.
> 
> So if one or more of the new Roamio models isn't selling a couple of years from now...


They also offered it at the launch of the Premiere. It wasn't a transfer, but it gave you $100 off lifetime including MSD and you kept the original lifetime.

I used two TiVo HDs to upgrade to Premiere XLs and then gave the HDs to my parents.


----------



## ncbill

Sure, some people see the $20-$25/month cable company 2-tuner HD DVR as "cheaper" than buying a 4-tuner Roamio Basic w/ lifetime.

But just like w/ autos, those who lease always end up with a higher TCO than those who buy.



dswallow said:


> For many, especially those who essentially live paycheck-to-paycheck, the present-value of the money is of far greater value to them than the potential savings three years down the road, or more.
> 
> It's the rare techie gadget that isn't superceded by something newer/faster/better/cheaper within 3 to 4 years -- and often much earlier -- anyway. Sure, you'll be able to find people that have had their receivers used and active for longer, but there's lots of cases where that won't be the case, too.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

tvn said:


> From what I'm reading from Tivo's emails, it seems as though I'll need a MOCA adapter attached to my router. The Roamio Plus will be in a room without ethernet. So, I'm assuming the wireless is only for connections, not passing MOCa to the Roamio Plus with built-in MOCA. I plan to have four Minis. Can anyone confirm that I need the MOCA adapter, just like with the Premiere XL 4?


Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.


----------



## Philmatic

Fofer said:


> I don't think it's been determined that out of network streaming/downloading will "need" WiFi (and not work over 3G/4G/LTE,) and even if so, yes, we all know about workarounds for that.


One of the TiVo engineers mentioned to The Verge that it will be restricted to WiFi until TiVo implements specific techniques that Apple requires to allow video streaming applications to work on 3G/LTE. It could be something as easy as adaptive video bitrate support. That would likely require an update to the app and to the Stream hardware.


----------



## Fofer

Philmatic said:


> One of the TiVo engineers mentioned to The Verge that it will be restricted to WiFi until TiVo implements specific techniques that Apple requires to allow video streaming applications to work on 3G/LTE. It could be something as easy as adaptive video bitrate support. That would likely require an update to the app and to the Stream hardware.


In that case, I'd expect video streaming over cellular (using the hotspot "trick" so the app thinks you're on wifi) in the meantime to stutter and otherwise not work well at all. Without adaptive video bitrate support, the underlying cellular connection will be a bottleneck, in most cases.


----------



## wco81

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.


I've never used MOCA. Would I just connect the coax to the Roamio and the Mini or do I need this MOCA adapter plugged into my router as well?


----------



## aindik

wco81 said:


> I've never used MOCA. Would I just connect the coax to the Roamio and the Mini or do I need this MOCA adapter plugged into my router as well?


You either need a MOCA adapter to your router, or you need an Ethernet cable from your Roamio to your router.


----------



## tvn

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.


Thank you. I wish I could have negotiated one when I made the major purchase! I'll have to wait a few days before hooking up the Minis.


----------



## wco81

Just a Wifi connection between the Roamio and router isn't enough, has to be ethernet?


----------



## aindik

wco81 said:


> Just a Wifi connection between the Roamio and router isn't enough, has to be ethernet?


Yes. The point of MoCa being that WiFi isn't fast/reliable enough.

And now that I think about it, you might need the adapter anyway if it's a Roamio (as opposed to a Roamio plus or pro).


----------



## rothsss

Is there any advantage of ethernet over moca or the other way around? I have both connections and need to decide. Thanks.


----------



## nooneuknow

rothsss said:


> Is there any advantage of ethernet over moca or the other way around? I have both connections and need to decide. Thanks.


If you don't already have Cat5e or Cat6 network cables to everyplace a networked device will be, and can afford a few adapters, the required POE filters, and filters for other Cable devices that would be disrupted by receiving a MoCA signal, it's really ideal, unless you want/need gigabit Ethernet. MoCA is getting faster, but last I checked, it's still around ~250Mbps. The main thing people LOVE about it is the need for only ONE cable, to carry both your cable signal and the networking.


----------



## rothsss

nooneuknow said:


> If you don't already have Cat5e or Cat6 network cables to everyplace a networked device will be, and can afford a few adapters, the required POE filters, and filters for other Cable devices that would be disrupted by receiving a MoCA signal, it's really ideal, unless you want/need gigabit Ethernet. MoCA is getting faster, but last I checked, it's still around ~250Mbps. The main thing people LOVE about it is the need for only ONE cable, to carry both your cable signal and the networking.


I am replacing my 3 secondary TiVos with 3 Minis. These 3 TiVos have both a coax and a Cat5 connection. I understand that for the Minis I need one or the other connection. I was wondering whether I will notice a difference depending on which one I keep and which one I disconnect.


----------



## TC25D

nooneuknow said:


> If you don't already have Cat5e or Cat6 network cables to everyplace a networked device will be, and can afford a few adapters, the required POE filters, and filters for other Cable devices that would be disrupted by receiving a MoCA signal, it's really ideal, unless you want/need gigabit Ethernet. MoCA is getting faster, but last I checked, it's still around ~250Mbps. The main thing people LOVE about it is the need for only ONE cable, to carry both your cable signal and the networking.


Sorry, but this post is confusing to this noob. 

I have Cat6 running to the location where my Roamio Basic will be and where the Mini will be. The Cat6 connects to a Gig router.

Will this work?


----------



## nooneuknow

rothsss said:


> I am replacing my 3 secondary TiVos with 3 Minis. These 3 TiVos have both a coax and a Cat5 connection. I understand that for the Minis I need one or the other connection. I was wondering whether I will notice a difference depending on which one I keep and which one I disconnect.


Only on devices that support gigabit Ethernet, that find themselves on a MoCA, or 100Mbit network (where the devices can, and do, actually use the extra bandwidth).

It all depends on what the equipment can support, and if it even uses the full bandwidth of what it supports. For example, TiVo HD models had 100Mbit Ethernet, but only ran at ~60Mbps, because they were underpowered. You could get ~85, or more Mbps if you put one into standby while transferring a show off that unit (more processor cycles to run the networking).

If You have gigabit Ethernet, a switch, and use one of those ports for a computer/laptop, it's network performance would suffer if you switched it to a MoCA bridge to Ethernet adapter, instead.

Really, unless there's computers involved, MoCA *should* be enough. You can always have a mix-and-match of Ethernet and MoCA (and bridges between them). I can't comment on the new TiVos, and if you'd notice with those. I don't own any.

Unless you are really wanting to lower the number of cables, if you already have them there, I'd say keep them and use them. Some people are bothered by the sight of cables. You can always hide them, or but snap-together plastic channels to run them through.

The day I see both reliable and gigabit MoCA, may be the day I consider changing-over. Otherwise, if the networking cables are there, I'm going to just use them.


----------



## nooneuknow

TC25D said:


> Sorry, but this post is confusing to this noob.
> 
> I have Cat6 running to the location where my Roamio Basic will be and where the Mini will be. The Cat6 connects to a Gig router.
> 
> Will this work?


Certainly! If you're not looking to eliminate extra wires, which are already there, why take out the fastest and most reliable networking method, right? I sure wouldn't.


----------



## TC25D

Thanks! 

I just received the email from TiVo my Roamio Basic and Mini have shipped. I can't wait to take my 2 DVRs back to my cable company and exchange them for 1 CableCard.


----------



## wco81

Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.

Is that going to be enough for MOCA?


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.
> 
> Is that going to be enough for MOCA?


MoCa is adaptive so it typically just slows down over lower quality wires. However it does eventually get to the point where it wont work. If MoCa doesn't work then you could always use WiFi or buy some powerline adapters. Or pull some new coax.


----------



## wco81

How long does it take to degrade?

I was thinking the bigger issue was that the coax used 30 years ago weren't rated to carry as much bandwidth as RG-6?

I would guess Cat 5 didn't exist back then either?


----------



## tcorning

Rose4uKY said:


> So now she had to deactivate the P4 but she said there is usually a 3 day grace period so can we not record at all not even manually? And our new Romio will be here within 6 business days and we have 15 to return the P4. We don't want to return P4 till new one gets here.


If the unit has not been deactivated yet, you can disconnect the network cable so that it cannot connect to TiVo and be told about the deactivation. At this point you probably have enough Guide Data to make it through another 12 days which should cover getting the new unit installed. Of course you won't be able to use any network services like Netflix, but you'll be able to record.

Ted


----------



## nooneuknow

wco81 said:


> Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.
> 
> Is that going to be enough for MOCA?


I sure wouldn't trust it, even if the cable signal isn't currently degraded. It might become degraded, and the MoCA as well, since 30-year old coax is poorly shielded, was (likely) never intended/rated for 1GHZ or higher frequencies, has itself degraded with age, and will possibly show it's age when you start running those higher frequency MoCA signals through it.

I just got done eliminating the last of the 30 year old in-wall coax in use in my house. It was getting AC current into it because they ran it too close to live electrical wires (especially when in parallel runs), and I don't even use MoCA (in Cat5e/Cat6 I trust). Your coax is probably single-shield. The worst would be if it was RG59 (thinner), as opposed to RG6.

You may want to check the official MoCA website, and see what they have to say about old/existing coax versus the dual/quad shielded and more highly rated coax of today's age.


----------



## aindik

Dan203 said:


> MoCa is adaptive so it typically just slows down over lower quality wires. However it does eventually get to the point where it wont work. If MoCa doesn't work then you could always use WiFi or buy some powerline adapters. Or pull some new coax.


Can't use WiFi to stream shows from a TiVo DVR to a TiVo Mini.


----------



## Dan203

aindik said:


> Can't use WiFi to stream shows from a TiVo DVR to a TiVo Mini.


You can, it's just not supported and there are no guarantees it would maintain a good enough connection. However 802.11n should be OK for 1 stream. Although you'd need a WiFi bridge for the Mini, unless it's connected directly to the WiFi router/AP.


----------



## mattack

Dan203 said:


> That was already updated on the Premiere in the last software update.


Are you referring to my post? They definitely are NOT on my Premiere 4.. you still see the screen 'switch' to the old UI.


----------



## MikeAndrews

innocentfreak said:


> The Verge Nilay seems to like it and he hated the Premiere. Price seems to be his big complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Irritatingly, TiVo still hasnt converted the entire interface to HD  there are still old-style SD screens throughout the settings menu, which Ive been complaining about for at least three years. Why cant anyone at TiVo just spend a weekend fixing this? Denney laughs at me. "I have that conversation with the engineering team all the time," he says. "It truly is a matter of prioritization." Note to TiVo: this needs to be a priority.
Click to expand...

If the UI is SD only only on the settings menus it's not so bad, is it? How often do you change the settings?

You need hi-res HD media screens so you can have graphics and more useful info on the screen. Not so much to choose setting options.


----------



## innocentfreak

netringer said:


> If the UI is SD only only on the settings menus it's not so bad, is it? How often do you change the settings?
> 
> You need hi-res HD media screens so you can have graphics and more useful info on the screen. Not so much to choose setting options.


If it takes more than 3 years to update, then yes it is that bad.

Would it be that bad if the iPhone apps weren't all updated yet for the new screen size of the iPhone 5? That hasn't been out for 3 years yet.


----------



## wco81

Dan203 said:


> You can, it's just not supported and there are no guarantees it would maintain a good enough connection. However 802.11n should be OK for 1 stream. Although you'd need a WiFi bridge for the Mini, unless it's connected directly to the WiFi router/AP.


Can you only use the Tivo Wifi Bridge or any third party one?

I have a Netgear or Linksys one that I'm using with a Direct TV DVR, which actually supports it by having a UI to configure the bridge (entering settings and passwords).

Does the Mini have some UI to configure the bridge?


----------



## Dan203

mattack said:


> Are you referring to my post? They definitely are NOT on my Premiere 4.. you still see the screen 'switch' to the old UI.


No I was referring to this one...



Troy J B said:


> The "Set Up a Manual Recording" is updated.
> The "Find by Time" & "Find by Channel" are not.


Specifically the "Set up a manual recording" part. That was converted to HD in the last Premiere update.

Find by time/channel are still SD.


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> Can you only use the Tivo Wifi Bridge or any third party one?
> 
> I have a Netgear or Linksys one that I'm using with a Direct TV DVR, which actually supports it by having a UI to configure the bridge (entering settings and passwords).
> 
> Does the Mini have some UI to configure the bridge?


You can use any bridge. They basically just convert Ethernet traffic to Wifi so as far as the Mini is concerned you're using Ethernet.

However you have to use a PC to set it up. The Mini doesn't have a UI for setting it up even if you use the TiVo one.


----------



## Icarus

wco81 said:


> Just a Wifi connection between the Roamio and router isn't enough, has to be ethernet?


if you are using moca between a roamio and mini(s) then somebody else said you could use the wifi on the roamio to bridge moca to your internet connection.

I think that's fine, you are using moca for streaming, wifi for guide updates, external streaming, etc (just not for streaming to the minis).

-David


----------



## Hi8

tatergator1 said:


> This has been asked an answered several times on the forum today. The 4-tuner Roamio base model is either 4 OTA or 4 Digital Cable tuners. They are not interoperable.


 funny you say that, as the link up a few posts:


Code:


Tom Rogers on Fox Business a little bit ago.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/26191...ix-all-in-one/

 bring you to the CEO of TiVo implying a fix for the CBS / TWC conflict -- saying no problem if you have the "Roamio" just hook up an OTA antenna to get CBS back..

sounds to me like he's saying they work together!

my guess is he's wrong but you would think him saying that confirms the assumption most people will make.


----------



## tatergator1

Yeah, he's wrong. He did several of those interviews on launch day and made several incorrect statements on the Roamio. There's only on Coax input on the back, therefore, It's either one or the other.

There's certainly going to be some wrong assumptions and from users of the Series 3/HD and the Premiere's capable of OTA and Cable simultaneously.


----------



## steve614

Technically he's not wrong. He just forgot to mention that you have to unplug the cable coax, plug in an antenna and redo guided setup.


----------



## aindik

steve614 said:


> Technically he's not wrong. He just forgot to mention that you have to unplug the cable coax, plug in an antenna and redo guided setup.


Or, just buy a Roamio AND a Roamio Pro. Problem solved.


----------



## Hi8

MScottC said:


> Next week I'll transfer my lifetime from the S1,.................. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't run into any other issues and I'll be retiring an almost 14 year old TiVo.


 What's the deal with this? I have an old Sony SRV2000 that has lifetime still on my account that I don't even have anymore..... Can I transfer that Lifetime to a 'new' TiVo?


----------



## sbiller

Hi8 said:


> What's the deal with this? I have an old Sony SRV2000 that has lifetime still on my account that I don't even have anymore..... Can I transfer that Lifetime to a 'new' TiVo?


My account info on tivo.com shows a number of boxes that have been sold to other users and transferred to their accounts. My guess is TiVo's computer system might not have the exact same information. You can give them a call and ask about the box.


----------



## lessd

Hi8 said:


> What's the deal with this? I have an old Sony SRV2000 that has lifetime still on my account that I don't even have anymore..... Can I transfer that Lifetime to a 'new' TiVo?


First the unit would have to show up in the user preference part of your TiVo web sight, and 2nd the unit would have had to been activated by January 20th 2001 for the one time lifetime xfer to work .


----------



## cr33p

I am currently looking at purchasing a used Series 1 unit on Craigslist he sent me the data and it shows activated on 9/10/2000, so this would qualify right?


----------



## jmbach

Looking at the information on TiVo Web site, does not look like any of the Roamio units support THX. I wonder if licensing got too expensive or after the initial reception for the Roamio, they will come out with a Roamio Elite that has THX. Or maybe they just said why bother.


----------



## bdraw

wco81 said:


> Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.
> 
> Is that going to be enough for MOCA?


I'd try the coax before replacing it, but any splitter that won't pass over 1Ghz is certainly going to be a problem (MoCA works in the spectrum above normal cable channels).


----------



## CrispyCritter

lessd said:


> First the unit would have to show up in the user preference part of your TiVo web sight, and 2nd the unit would have had to been activated by January 20th 2001 for the one time lifetime xfer to work .


Typo in your post: the cutoff date is January 20th, 2000 (not 2001).

There really are very few of these out there that people don't know about.


----------



## CrispyCritter

cr33p said:


> I am currently looking at purchasing a used Series 1 unit on Craigslist he sent me the data and it shows activated on 9/10/2000, so this would qualify right?


No, the cutoff date is Jan 20 (21st?), 2000, not 2001


----------



## CrispyCritter

sbiller said:


> My account info on tivo.com shows a number of boxes that have been sold to other users and transferred to their accounts. My guess is TiVo's computer system might not have the exact same information. You can give them a call and ask about the box.


Yes, it's annoying. What I've been told is that the TiVos will be removed from my account once officially added to their account, but they never have done so.


----------



## Fofer

CrispyCritter said:


> Yes, it's annoying. What I've been told is that the TiVos will be removed from my account once officially added to their account, but they never have done so.


I had an old (sold long ago) lifetimed TiVo S3 showing up on my preferences screen too. This meant I was able to (A) see the new owner's Season Passes online and (B) every time I went to schedule a recording at m.tivo.com I'd see that other TiVo in the pulldown list as a possible destination. This annoyed me.

I called TiVo and they said that because the new owner never created an account on tivo.com, it was on my account, and the only way to remove it (without screwing over the new owner and potentially causing their TiVo to stop working) would be to contact them and have them create a new account on tivo.com so we could transfer the TiVo from my account to hers.

Thing is, I sold that TiVo six years ago, on eBay! Good news, I still had the email (thanks Gmail!) and was able to contact her. She was cooperative and thankful and we got it done.

Now, this old TiVo still appears in "My account" under "Active TiVo devices" (along with my current Premiere, Stream, and yet another old S3) but it does NOT appear under the "device preferences" screen, so it doesn't pose any issue. I can no longer see her SP's and the m.tivo.com online scheduling page only presents my own Premiere as the recording destination.

It seems off that TiVo required this of me, if I just wanted it off of my account, and didn't want to screw up the nice lady who bought my lifetimed TiVo and never saw the need or incentive to also sign up and register it on tivo.com.

In any case, in retrospect, part of me now wonders if I should have just left it on my account. I mean, if anything it was merely mildly annoying to me -- and the new owner surely didn't even notice nor care. And the upside of keeping it there would have meant that I had not one, but two lifetimed devices linked on my account, both of which would make me eligible for Multi Service Discounts in the future. (So if I got rid of this Premiere and then later on decided to come back to TiVo, I'd still have that old one for discount eligibility.)

Ah well.


----------



## jmpage2

jmbach said:


> Looking at the information on TiVo Web site, does not look like any of the Roamio units support THX. I wonder if licensing got too expensive or after the initial reception for the Roamio, they will come out with a Roamio Elite that has THX. Or maybe they just said why bother.


THX certification is a bit of a scam anyways (big fat licensing costs to THX to certify the gear and stamp a logo on it). There is no indication that any of the TiVos that have been THX certified have had any single difference in the hardware or software other than inclusion of a "setup tool" that would make them better than their non THX siblings.


----------



## lessd

Fofer said:


> I had an old (sold long ago) lifetimed TiVo S3 showing up on my preferences screen too. This meant I was able to (A) see the new owner's Season Passes online and (B) every time I went to schedule a recording at m.tivo.com I'd see that other TiVo in the pulldown list as a possible destination. This annoyed me.
> 
> I called TiVo and they said that because the new owner never created an account on tivo.com, it was on my account, and the only way to remove it (without screwing over the new owner and potentially causing their TiVo to stop working) would be to contact them and have them create a new account on tivo.com so we could transfer the TiVo from my account to hers.
> 
> Thing is, I sold that TiVo six years ago, on eBay! Good news, I still had the email (thanks Gmail!) and was able to contact her. She was cooperative and thankful and we got it done.
> 
> Now, this old TiVo still appears in "My account" under "Active TiVo devices" (along with my current Premiere, Stream, and yet another old S3) but it does NOT appear under the "device preferences" screen, so it doesn't pose any issue. I can no longer see her SP's and the m.tivo.com online scheduling page only presents my own Premiere as the recording destination.
> 
> It seems off that TiVo required this of me, if I just wanted it off of my account, and didn't want to screw up the nice lady who bought my lifetimed TiVo and never saw the need or incentive to also sign up and register it on tivo.com.
> 
> In any case, in retrospect, part of me now wonders if I should have just left it on my account. I mean, if anything it was merely mildly annoying to me -- and the new owner surely didn't even notice nor care. And the upside of keeping it there would have meant that I had not one, but two lifetimed devices linked on my account, both of which would make me eligible for Multi Service Discounts in the future. (So if I got rid of this Premiere and then later on decided to come back to TiVo, I'd still have that old one for discount eligibility.)
> 
> Ah well.


What I do is after about 50 days of selling a Lifetime TiVo (and the buyer has not moved the unit) I open a TiVo account for the buyer using his address and his PayPal E-Mail, then have TiVo move the unit into this new account, e-mail the buyer with the log-in information, tell him he can change the password or another information and I am done.
You can open a blank TiVo account by using a old non activated TSN as a new customer, than don't follow through with the activation.


----------



## Surrealone

bdraw said:


> I'd try the coax before replacing it, but any splitter that won't pass over 1Ghz is certainly going to be a problem (MoCA works in the spectrum above normal cable channels).


Also remember to use POE filter. I use a full moca network had some problems at first but after I installed the Poe all was good


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

Surrealone said:


> Also remember to use POE filter. I use a full moca network had some problems at first but after I installed the Poe all was good


Is there a place to get a POE filter cheap? cheapest (and appears to be ONLY) one on amazon is 20 bucks!


----------



## lessd

Big Boy Laroux said:


> Is there a place to get a POE filter cheap? cheapest (and appears to be ONLY) one on amazon is 20 bucks!


E-Bay $8.50 inc S&H http://www.ebay.com/itm/MoCA-POE-Extreme-FILTER-CABLE-TV-NEW-WHOLE-HOUSE-DVR-Total-/271259458729?pt=US_Signal_Amplifiers_Filters&hash=item3f2852dca9


----------



## HarperVision

Big Boy Laroux said:


> Is there a place to get a POE filter cheap? cheapest (and appears to be ONLY) one on amazon is 20 bucks!


TiVo sells them for $8.99


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

HarperVision said:


> TiVo sells them for $8.99


Sorry, meant to add "and someplace that doesn't charge more shipping than the product costs?" 

guess ebay may be the best option. Thanks, lessd.


----------



## Surrealone

I used eBay.


----------



## Surrealone

Also make sure to install where the coax comes in to the home and before the splitter.


----------



## nooneuknow

CrispyCritter said:


> Yes, it's annoying. What I've been told is that the TiVos will be removed from my account once officially added to their account, but they never have done so.


Yet another reason to opt-out from their new TOS/policies/agreements. The way the new consolidated one is worded, you could be penalized for something somebody did, or didn't do, with a box still on your account.


----------



## socrplyr

aaronwt said:


> The Elite already exceeds 100mb/s when maxing out it's streams. At least that was the case when I got my launch Elite. So I would expect the Roamio plus and pro to be able to exceed that when it also get up to a high number of streams.


No it doesn't. All Premiere's have a hardware limitation at 100Mbps. We have had this conversation before and you still keep posting it.


----------



## puffdaddy

For anyone with a new Roamio. After it completes the Guided Setup and takes the software upgrade, what software version does it report?


----------



## aaronwt

socrplyr said:


> No it doesn't. All Premiere's have a hardware limitation at 100Mbps. We have had this conversation before and you still keep posting it.


When I did my testing it was also before TiVo had put a limit on the number of streams. So it was possible for me to initiate too many streams and then the Elite would reboot as soon as I passed a certain number of streams. I don't remember the amount though. But that was back when I had something like six or seven two tuner Premieres.

I only know what my bandwidth monitor told me was being sent between it and the Elite. On the PC Ethernet port that was being monitored that was connected to the Elite.


----------



## MeInDallas

Big Boy Laroux said:


> Sorry, meant to add "and someplace that doesn't charge more shipping than the product costs?"
> 
> guess ebay may be the best option. Thanks, lessd.


Heres one on Ebay, $8.50 with free shipping, and the seller has 100% good feedback.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MoCA-POE-Extreme-FILTER-CABLE-TV-NEW-WHOLE-HOUSE-DVR-Total-/271259458729?pt=US_Signal_Amplifiers_Filters&hash=item3f2852dca9


----------



## caseybea

jcthorne said:


> Followup on the Ethernet speeds. No matter what the specs on the Tivo web site state, the basic model does NOT have Gbit Ethernet. 10/100 only. I was pretty bummed that it did not have what was advertised.


WTH...? What is this, 2002? OK, yet another reason for me to just stick it out with my Premiere unit until it dies.


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

MeInDallas said:


> Heres one on Ebay, $8.50 with free shipping, and the seller has 100% good feedback.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MoCA-POE-Extreme-FILTER-CABLE-TV-NEW-WHOLE-HOUSE-DVR-Total-/271259458729?pt=US_Signal_Amplifiers_Filters&hash=item3f2852dca9


yep, thanks! lessd posted the same one.


----------



## MeInDallas

Big Boy Laroux said:


> yep, thanks! lessd posted the same one.


Oh sorry! I didnt see it!


----------



## Fofer

caseybea said:


> WTH...? What is this, 2002? OK, yet another reason for me to just stick it out with my Premiere unit until it dies.


Just for clarification, apparently the Plus and Pro models *do* have Gigabit (although that hasn't been confirmed yet, has it?)


----------



## caseybea

Fofer said:


> Just for clarification, apparently the Plus and Pro models *do* have Gigabit (although that hasn't been confirmed yet, has it?)


Assuming they do, I'm still screwed as a customer. I am an antenna only customer.

So, if I have antenna only (which is my case) the only Romio device I can buy is their base model. The one with the smallest hard drive and slower connection and no streaming. Yes, I can go buy a tivo-stream, but that doesn't address the other two issues. (and yes, I know I could go after-market for hard drive expansion, but I am not thrilled with that option either).

I don't understand why Tivo left antenna folks out in the cold. What, just because you don't have cable means you don't want to record a crapload of tv?  Would have been awesome if for the higher-up models, you could choose antenna or cable.

Their loss. There's just not enough for me personally to upgrade. I probably would have, if streaming was built in, and had a gig connection. As it stands, I'm keeping my premiere until it dies a horrible death. Too bad.


----------



## nooneuknow

Fofer said:


> Just for clarification, apparently the Plus and Pro models *do* have Gigabit (although that hasn't been confirmed yet, has it?)


I believe it was confirmed. I've been following the matter closely. For awhile, TiVo had the wrong data on their website, stating they all had gigabit, while endagadget (or one of those such sites) had the correct specs, showing the base model only with 100Mbit.

I've learned, time and time again, that just having a gigabit Ethernet port doesn't mean that it will actually work at, or even near, gigabit speed. Many gigabit devices I own (other than routers, switches, etc.), never run much faster than 100Mbps. I use WD TV Live Hubs with gigabit ports to back up computers with gigabit Ethernet, and the WD TV Live Hub creates a bottleneck, internally, running the speed down to right around 100Mbit. This is a very common gripe in WD's forums. Why put in a gigabit chip, advertise it as such, and then give roughly the same speed as 100Mbit? (other than being able to say it has it, fleece the consumer, and sell more than competing products with 100Mbit ports)

So, if the gigabit ports on the Plus and Pro bottleneck like that, it doesn't really matter (by much) that the base model only has 100Mbit.

As with many things, time will tell, and it may take some a while to share any data, as they'd rather just enjoy their new toy, and sharing any specifics, benchmarks, or more details on the new hard drive methodology, comes in dead last (other than posting "wow, this thing is so fast!").


----------



## dswallow

Fofer said:


> Just for clarification, apparently the Plus and Pro models *do* have Gigabit (although that hasn't been confirmed yet, has it?)


Yes, it has. At least for the Pro model, but it's probably a safe bet for the Plus...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9778998


----------



## aindik

The Premieres actually got up near 100?

That's amazing to me. I have a TivoHD and I jump for joy when it gets higher than 10. Being able to transfer an hour long show in 8 minutes (as opposed to 80) is going to be nice. And if it's 4 minutes (200 Mbps), even better.


----------



## innocentfreak

aindik said:


> The Premieres actually got up near 100?
> 
> That's amazing to me. I have a TivoHD and I jump for joy when it gets higher than 10. Being able to transfer an hour long show in 8 minutes (as opposed to 80) is going to be nice. And if it's 4 minutes (200 Mbps), even better.


Yeah. TiVo speeds have always been limited by the chip, not the ethernet jack.


----------



## jfh3

puffdaddy said:


> For anyone with a new Roamio. After it completes the Guided Setup and takes the software upgrade, what software version does it report?


20.3.6-USA-6-846 (Base Roamio)
20.3.6-USA-6-840 (Pro)


----------



## skid71

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.


BJO (or anyone else)...

I have three MoCA adapters in the house.
#1 - Coax (out) on MoCA adapter to modem
#2 - Theater room
#3 - Bedroom

I currently use another brand of DVR but will be purchasing my first TiVo.

With the Roamio (Plus or Pro) can/should I:

#1 Leave MoCA connection #1 above alone? (This would be a TiVo Mini location)
#2 Remove the MoCA adapters in the Theater room (Roamio Plus/Pro location) & bedroom (TiVo Mini location #2)?

Would the Roamio Plus/Pro work as a MoCA bridge? (connect the Ethernet on the Roamio to a switch)

Would a MoCA adapter still be needed for wired internet access in the bedroom (Mini) location? I don't suppose the Mini acts as a bridge like the Roamio does?

I really hope this makes sense. I'm trying to make my head thoroughly understand this MoCA networking stuff.

Much thanks!

ps I know it's off topic, but can someone suggest a good gigabit wireless router router?

psII I do have a POE filter installed in the Comcast box on the outside of the house.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

skid71 said:


> BJO (or anyone else)...
> 
> I have three MoCA adapters in the house.
> #1 - Coax (out) on MoCA adapter to modem
> #2 - Theater room
> #3 - Bedroom
> 
> I currently use another brand of DVR but will be purchasing my first TiVo.
> 
> With the Roamio (Plus or Pro) can/should I:
> 
> #1 Leave MoCA connection #1 above alone? (This would be a TiVo Mini location)
> #2 Remove the MoCA adapters in the Theater room (Roamio Plus/Pro location) & bedroom (TiVo Mini location #2)?
> 
> Would the Roamio Plus/Pro work as a MoCA bridge? (connect the Ethernet on the Roamio to a switch)
> 
> Would a MoCA adapter still be needed for wired internet access in the bedroom (Mini) location? I don't suppose the Mini acts as a bridge like the Roamio does?
> 
> I really hope this makes sense. I'm trying to make my head thoroughly understand this MoCA networking stuff.
> 
> Much thanks!


Yes, the Plus/Pro can act as a moca bridge, if it's connected via ethernet. There are 2 ways to establish a moca network:

1) Connect a moca adapter to the router/modem.

2) Connect the Plus/Pro to the router/switch via ethernet, and select "moca+ethernet" from the DVR's network settings. (This will give the Minis access to the moca network that the Tivo itself creates.)

If your Plus/Pro has an ethernet connection, you don't need the adapter at position #1 if you don't want to. But if you do leave it, the DVR should be set to just "MoCA" in the settings.

The Minis don't act as a bridge, no. But they won't need the moca adapters. They have moca built-in. Give them coax and they're fine.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Rose4uKY

So I kept my Series 3 with Lifetime so I could get a MSD on the Premiere 4 and the special was 6.95 which I was paying on my 2nd Series 3 that I am no longer using. But when I called to return the Premiere and get this new Roamio I was told I don't get a MSD I have to pay the full 14.99 is that correct or should I be getting a discount? Should it be 12.99 instead of 14.99 or is the MSD only if you get the lifetime it's 399 instead of 499? Thing is I had 3 Tivo Series 3 a lifetime a 6.95 which was grandfathered it from way back and my boyfriends was 9.95. I was told I had to keep the lifetime active to receive 6.95 on my premiere. But now that I am returning the premiere and the new Roamio is costing me 14.99 they said I feel like I don't need my series 3 with lifetime anymore so what are those selling for with Lifetime?



bradleys said:


> Logged in fine and I do see the multi-service discount on my order...


----------



## mattack

Fofer said:


> TiVo's out-of-home streaming will be "like" Slingbox, in that it allows for out-of-home streaming -- but it's not actually Slingbox. You'd need the TiVo app, not the Slingbox one in order to use it. And the iOS app is getting this feature first, I've no idea when it will come to Android.
> 
> That being said, assuming TiVo works it so that the quality of the stream intelligently adapts to the speed of your connection, I'd say their implementation will be better than Slingboxes (at least, if you already have the compatible pieces in place.) Instead of transcoding the entire UI and playback on-the-fly, and giving you a "virtual remote control" like the Slingbox does, it will simply integrate out-of-home downloading and streaming to the existing (very well designed) TiVo app.


Based on bjdraw (Engadget HD guy)'s review, the out of home streaming is *currently* way way worse than the Slingbox, and does NOT do adaptive streaming, or does it very poorly (my own lack of memory on the last point).


----------



## aaronwt

Rose4uKY said:


> So I kept my Series 3 with Lifetime so I could get a MSD on the Premiere 4 and the special was 6.95 which I was paying on my 2nd Series 3 that I am no longer using. But when I called to return the Premiere and get this new Roamio I was told I don't get a MSD I have to pay the full 14.99 is that correct or should I be getting a discount? Should it be 12.99 instead of 14.99 or is the MSD only if you get the lifetime it's 399 instead of 499? Thing is I had 3 Tivo Series 3 a lifetime a 6.95 which was grandfathered it from way back and my boyfriends was 9.95. I was told I had to keep the lifetime active to receive 6.95 on my premiere. But now that I am returning the premiere and the new Roamio is costing me 14.99 they said I feel like I don't need my series 3 with lifetime anymore so what are those selling for with Lifetime?


You need a TiVo that has non MSD service on it to get an MSD price on future TiVos. Or at least that is supposed to be the case.

I've talked to several CSRs over the years and was told that only my $6.95 a month Premiere would not qualify for lifetime service. Even though the lifetime service I got on all my other TiVos was the MSD price. UNless the lifetime on my S3 boxes that my GF has doesn't count. Since I purchased lifetime after having them on TiVos service for 3 years since lifetime wasn't offered in late 2006.


----------



## sbiller

http://tivo.com/media-reviews


----------



## Crrink

aindik said:


> Or, just buy a Roamio AND a Roamio Pro. Problem solved.


Hehe...this was my initial plan - I bought a Roamio base with lifetime because I figured it should always have some use and value, no matter what my TV plans are in the future. Figured I'd use it for a bit, make sure there aren't any show stoppers, and in the mean time see if my 2 tuner Premier was sufficient to catch all the cable shows we watch. At some point probably add a Roamio plus/pro (next month, next year? Depends on how things go.)

With the new drive upgrade information out (seems to be very easy) I thought the plus/pro decision was more complicated, but today it belatedly dawned on me that I could get another Roamio base and set it up for cable. Four OTA, four cable tuners - should cover every possible scenario for the amount of TV we watch.

I'd still be managing two SP/ToDo lists, just like I always have been, so a six tuner might still be worth it for our particular situation, but for whatever reason, until today I hadn't thought about meeting our needs with two, relatively cheap, Roamio base models - along with a couple of also cheap drive upgrades.

Posting this just in case anybody missed an obvious option as easily as I did 

A Lifetime Roamio base is, what $150 more than a Lifetime TiVo mini? For me that's probably a fair price for the added flexibility you get with four additional tuners, even though I'll be looking at more work managing our Season Pass lists.
(Although for me, it also makes me feel like the Mini might be very overpriced. Especially for anybody who still has $6.95/$9.95 MSD monthly options to transfer to a new Roamio base!)

Anyway, food for thought.

...ETA: we bought a stream some time ago, so I believe we'll be covered for any stream functionality at least in the near future. Those of you who want it, but don't have a standalone stream, will obviously have to weigh the included functionality in the plus/pro versus the base Roamio.


----------



## richbrew

The thought of 2 basics vs a basic and a pro made me think of an interesting question...

Two scenarios...

Scenario 1:
2x TR Basic
1x Stream
1x Mini
1x iPad

Scenario 2:
1x TR Basic
1x TR Plus (or Pro)
1x Mini
1x iPad

In both scenarios, the mini can stream from both TiVos. In scenario 1 the iPad can stream from both (correct me if I'm wrong). In scenario 2, will the plus/pro provide streaming for the basic the way an external stream would, allowing the iPad to stream from it?


----------



## andyf

The Plus does appear to provide streaming support for other TiVos on the network.


----------



## wco81

If I order from Tivo.com, can I get a refund of everything if my coax wiring is too old for MOCA?

I would be ordering the Roamio Plus, Mini, Lifetimes for both, extended warranty for the Roamio.


----------



## dswallow

wco81 said:


> If I order from Tivo.com, can I get a refund of everything if my coax wiring is too old for MOCA?
> 
> I would be ordering the Roamio Plus, Mini, Lifetimes for both, extended warranty for the Roamio.


You have 30 days to arrange to return it for a refund. The specific reason isn't important.


----------



## ncbill

$350 more ($250 vs. $600, assuming MSD on the Roamio)



Crrink said:


> A Lifetime Roamio base is, what $150 more than a Lifetime TiVo mini?


----------



## Crrink

ncbill said:


> $350 more ($250 vs. $600, assuming MSD on the Roamio)


Doh...that's what happens when I rely on vague memories - appreciate the correction.


----------



## Johncv

caseybea said:


> Assuming they do, I'm still screwed as a customer. I am an antenna only customer.
> 
> So, if I have antenna only (which is my case) the only Romio device I can buy is their base model. The one with the smallest hard drive and slower connection and no streaming. Yes, I can go buy a tivo-stream, but that doesn't address the other two issues. (and yes, I know I could go after-market for hard drive expansion, but I am not thrilled with that option either).
> 
> I don't understand why Tivo left antenna folks out in the cold. What, just because you don't have cable means you don't want to record a crapload of tv?  Would have been awesome if for the higher-up models, you could choose antenna or cable.
> 
> Their loss. There's just not enough for me personally to upgrade. I probably would have, if streaming was built in, and had a gig connection. As it stands, I'm keeping my premiere until it dies a horrible death. Too bad.


Do that, because I think that by next year this model will be discontinued and replace with a model that will support everything that in the other models and with a larger hard drive. Just a guess.


----------



## jmpage2

Johncv said:


> Do that, because I think that by next year this model will be discontinued and replace with a model that will support everything that in the other models and with a larger hard drive. Just a guess.


I still don't see that TiVo left antenna customers out "in the cold".

Let's see.

1. They now get a quad tuner box, which is double the tuners they've been able to do OTA.

2. They now have support for the TiVo Mini via MoCA adapter.

3. They now have the option (their discretion of course) to drop a huge hard drive into a base Roamio and have it load the software to it with no muss no fuss.


----------



## Crrink

jmpage2 said:


> I still don't see that TiVo left antenna customers out "in the cold".
> 
> Let's see.
> 
> 1. They now get a quad tuner box, which is double the tuners they've been able to do OTA.
> 
> 2. They now have support for the TiVo Mini via MoCA adapter.
> 
> 3. They now have the option (their discretion of course) to drop a huge hard drive into a base Roamio and have it load the software to it with no muss no fuss.


:shrug:
For anybody who isn't a die hard cord cutter, and can receive local broadcasts, the Roamio base isn't anywhere near as cool as it would have been to be able to do OTA *AND* cable in the same box - whether it be 4 tuners, six tuners, or 3 of each type, even.

Like a lot of people who live in populated areas, I can receive all my local channels with an unobtrusive Mohu Leaf antenna. I have all my HD's and Premieres working off both Antenna and Cable because the Tuning Adapter isn't a reliable piece of equipment. That one piece of junk significantly diminishes TiVo's rock solid ability to reliably record shows. Yeah, they work better today than they did a few years ago when I first got them, but they're still far from 100%, and I don't expect they'll ever be 100%.

TiVo hasn't given us anything in software or hardware to help mitigate Tuning Adapter problems (maybe they can't, maybe it's not a priority, maybe it's in between,) so pretty much the only way to notice a problem is the realization you're missing a few shows that should have recorded by now. I don't know about you, but I don't pay much attention to broadcast schedules, so this realization typically takes several days, during which we sometimes miss recording several shows.

That stinks.

At least with cable plus OTA I can be guaranteed to pretty much never miss a broadcast show. And like most people in the US, broadcast shows make up the main part of our viewing.

So having OTA is nice for some of us.
Having a TiVo in the bedroom that can *only* record OTA means having to stream all the cable shows we record from another TiVo. Not the end of the world by any means, but it's sure a lot nicer to have the option to have those showed stored locally as well. It's also nice to have two Tuning Adapters active recording mostly the same shows - if one is on the fritz, you have the chance to catch the recording with the other.

Anyway, I don't feel like TiVo has done me wrong, but I'd sure be a lot happier if I could buy a single unit that could do both OTA and cable. Even if it cost more money.


----------



## Johncv

sbiller said:


> http://tivo.com/media-reviews


Sam, would like know how many "new" customers TiVo receive from all the glowing reviews. Would give the cable companies a nightmare if customer start to return their crappy boxes and replacing them with TiVo's.  One can dream.


----------



## Johncv

wco81 said:


> If I order from Tivo.com, can I get a refund of everything if my coax wiring is too old for MOCA?
> 
> I would be ordering the Roamio Plus, Mini, Lifetimes for both, extended warranty for the Roamio.


Is there a reason you can't have your coax wiring replace? Cox San Diego replace my wiring twice at no charge.


----------



## morac

Johncv said:


> Sam, would like know how many "new" customers TiVo receive from all the glowing reviews. Would give the cable companies a nightmare if customer start to return their crappy boxes and replacing them with TiVo's.  One can dream.


Considering nearly every time I turn on my TV I see a commercial for Comcast's X1 platform which touts "record 4 shows while watching a 5th" (strongly hinting that it's the only device capable of doing so) and I've seen one TiVo TV commercial in the 10 years I've had TiVo, I don't think the cable companies have anything to worry about.


----------



## Johncv

morac said:


> Considering nearly every time I turn on my TV I see a commercial for Comcast's X1 platform which touts "record 4 shows while watching a 5th" (strongly hinting that it's the only device capable of doing so) and I've seen one TiVo TV commercial in the 10 years I've had TiVo, I don't think the cable companies have anything to worry about.


Which is why TiVo need to start doing prime time commercial that show what Roamio can do that Comcast's X1 can not do. I know wishful thinking.


----------



## skid71

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yes, the Plus/Pro can act as a moca bridge, if it's connected via ethernet. There are 2 ways to establish a moca network:
> 
> 1) Connect a moca adapter to the router/modem.
> 
> 2) Connect the Plus/Pro to the router/switch via ethernet, and select "moca+ethernet" from the DVR's network settings. (This will give the Minis access to the moca network that the Tivo itself creates.)
> 
> If your Plus/Pro has an ethernet connection, you don't need the adapter at position #1 if you don't want to. But if you do leave it, the DVR should be set to just "MoCA" in the settings.
> 
> The Minis don't act as a bridge, no. But they won't need the moca adapters. They have moca built-in. Give them coax and they're fine.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thank you for your help.
If I may follow up.

I do have a MoCA adapter connected to my modem. (upstairs), so that should establish a MoCA network. A Mini will be located here.

If I only connect the coax to the Plus/Pro (downstairs) 
#1 I won't need a MoCA adapter at that location
#2 Can run a Ethernet cable from the Plus/Pro to an Ethernet switch for other wired devices? ie Blu-ray, xbox, etc.

Thanks again
Not sure why I can't get my thick skull to soak this up.

Skid


----------



## Davisadm

Johncv said:


> Is there a reason you can't have your coax wiring replace? Cox San Diego replace my wiring twice at no charge.


But did they run it inside the walls, or outside which is UGLY?


----------



## wco81

I'd be doing a self-install kit.

Comcast specifically used to say if there's a problem and it turned out to be a problem with my internal wiring, they'd charge for a visit.

In any event, do the Roamios have two coax inputs?

I have a coax drop in the living room and a coax drop in the master bedroom. I'm assuming that the coax runs from outside my home to the living room and then up to the bedroom.

So I would connect the Roamio in the living room and the Mini connected to the drop in the bedroom would "see" the Moca device in the living room, the Roamio?


----------



## jfh3

wco81 said:


> In any event, do the Roamios have two coax inputs?


No, just one.



> So I would connect the Roamio in the living room and the Mini connected to the drop in the bedroom would "see" the Moca device in the living room, the Roamio?


Yes, assuming it is a Roamio Plus/Pro. The base unit does not have MoCA support built in.


----------



## jfh3

skid71 said:


> I do have a MoCA adapter connected to my modem. (upstairs), so that should establish a MoCA network. A Mini will be located here.
> 
> If I only connect the coax to the Plus/Pro (downstairs)
> #1 I won't need a MoCA adapter at that location
> #2 Can run a Ethernet cable from the Plus/Pro to an Ethernet switch for other wired devices? ie Blu-ray, xbox, etc.


Yes to both questions.


----------



## Beryl

Y'all convinced me to purchase the Plus model and put in an order at WeaKnees. The discount, no tax, no shipping fee, builtin Stream, faster internet, and the extra space weighed more heavily over OTA since I probably won't dump cable any time soon and if I do, I'll use my Premiere or whatever better DVR available at that time. My Basic Roamio will be returned to TiVo when the Plus arrives.

The stock model (no upgrade) is just like ordering at TiVo and I can get the same lifetime service (w/MSD) and extended warranty that TiVo put on my Basic when I call them. Right?


----------



## JWhites

innocentfreak said:


> It has Esata but no word on which drives are supported. I would love to see something like Synology supported, but not as a striped drive.


According to the product's FAQ, it said the Western Digital My Book AV drive (same as what we're using on the Premiere) is compatible.


----------



## wco81

JWhites said:


> According to the product's FAQ, it said the Western Digital My Book AV drive (same as what we're using on the Premiere) is compatible.


So if I purchased an extended warranty, it would cover drive failures if I used that particular eSATA drive?


----------



## JWhites

I would assume whatever the policy is for the Premiere in that situation would also apply for the Roamio in the same situation since according to TiVo and Western Digital, the MyBook AV has been certified to work with TiVo devices and is recommended by name in the FAQ, which I would like to think actually means something and isn't just marketing hype.


----------



## Dan203

If the TiVo failed it would be covered by the extended warranty. But if the external drive failed it would not.


----------



## MeInDallas

The Western Digital My DVR Expander comes with a 2 year warranty thru Western Digital, so if you purchase a new one it has 2 years on it, and you would have to work with Western Digital for a replacement/RMA if something happens to it.


----------



## wco81

So it sounds like swapping the internal drive of the Roamio Plus wouldn't be that hard.

Of course if drive that you upgraded yourself failed, the extended warranty would be void.

However, that warranty is only good for one replacement?

Other than drive failure, what are the most common failures of Tivos?

Also it seems that if a piece of electronics is going to fail, it would fail within the first year.

Of course drives fail later and the extended warranty would get you a new unit. However, you still lose recordings and you're without your Tivo while you send in the broken one and the new one gets shipped to you. MIght be better just to swap out the drive yourself in that case.

Maybe that argues against the extended warranty, especially the 3 year one?


----------



## skid71

jfh3 said:


> Yes to both questions.


Thank you very much for answering. This is excellent confirmation. Getting rid of two devices, along with cabling for each and power for each. Getting rid of the MoCA adapter and the external drive connected to our current DVR (Moxi).

Now I just have to wait patiently for a holiday bundle from TiVo. Looking for a Plus (upgrade the drive myself) + 2 Minis or pony up the dough for a Pro + 2 Minis.

I've never used TiVo but really looking forward to it.

Thanks again

Skid


----------



## tivogurl

wco81 said:


> However, you still lose recordings and you're without your Tivo while you send in the broken one and the new one gets shipped to you. MIght be better just to swap out the drive yourself in that case.


I think about it this way. The 2TB drive I bought to upgrade the Basic I have on order cost $100 including tax. What do you think that drive will cost in 2 years? Probably substantially less. The cost of the extended warranty is a very large fraction of the price of that new drive, plus the cost and hassle of the RMA itself. I figure I will save very little money on net with the extended warranty if the usual suspects fail (drive, power supply).


----------



## caseybea

So, one thing about the premiers (which I experienced, and many many others in the forums reported issues with too) was the quality and sensitivity of the tuner. In my case, an antenna inside my garage ceiling worked great for ALL my prior in-home HD tv devices-- no issues, until I got my Tivo Premiere. Long story short, to make it work at all and be usable, I had to relocate the antenna to the top of my chimney. 

So the question I have is: has anyone checked out the guts of the Romio yet? chipset, etc etc? (think: iFixit or equivalent)?

I'm very interested to see how this thing stack up against the Premiers.......


----------



## elwaylite

How often, if ever should one reboot a TiVo Roamio? Im unsure if it ever does itself, just wondering periodic restarts are a good procedure.


----------



## nooneuknow

elwaylite said:


> How often, if ever should one reboot a TiVo Roamio? Im unsure if it ever does itself, just wondering periodic restarts are a good procedure.


I don't think they've been on the market long enough to ask that type of question yet. Anything anybody says, this early on, is likely to be based on prior TiVo experience(s), or just opinion/speculation.

I'll spare you mine, except that I hope it requires less rebooting, and/or random, primetime, self-rebooting than previous generations.


----------



## jmpage2

elwaylite said:


> How often, if ever should one reboot a TiVo Roamio? Im unsure if it ever does itself, just wondering periodic restarts are a good procedure.


Rebooting preventively is unnecessary. I occasionally have a weird problem and THEN reboot. A TiVo can typically go for months without needing a reboot.


----------



## b_scott

or like me, if you go in and out of Netflix in too quick a fashion, it becomes unresponsive and eventually the black screen reboots the Tivo itself. Gotta love it. NOT.


----------



## ppartekim

jmpage2 said:


> Rebooting preventively is unnecessary. I occasionally have a weird problem and THEN reboot. A TiVo can typically go for months without needing a reboot.


The only time I rebooted my S3s was when the house power went off or I had to physically moved the units when I rearranged my entertainment gear. So, I would say it may have been booted a half dozen times over the same amount of years.


----------



## morac

jmpage2 said:


> Rebooting preventively is unnecessary. I occasionally have a weird problem and THEN reboot. A TiVo can typically go for months without needing a reboot.


Or even years, for older models that don't get updates.


----------



## jmpage2

ppartekim said:


> The only time I rebooted my S3s was when the house power went off or I had to physically moved the units when I rearranged my entertainment gear. So, I would say it may have been booted a half dozen times over the same amount of years.


With the Premiere XL4 I have had an occasional problem where it stops tuning or playing back content. Rebooting fixes it. Might happen 2-3 times a year.


----------



## Beryl

I've had to reboot to fix some networking issues when one TiVo couldn't find another. Still only a few times a year.


----------



## CoxInPHX

elwaylite said:


> How often, if ever should one reboot a TiVo Roamio? Im unsure if it ever does itself, just wondering periodic restarts are a good procedure.


I reboot my Premieres and Elite (and Tuning Adapters) religiously every 3 weeks and generally do not have any issues with black screens or missed recordings.


----------



## ShoutingMan

P42 said:


> Spend the $99 *2 on putting Lifetime on the HDs, then flip them on ebay for $250+ each. This will take the sting out of the Roamio pricing.


How do I get $99 Lifetime on my TiVo HDs? That's not listed on the TiVo website.


----------



## HarperVision

They used to send me email offers for that all the time. What finally sent me over the edge to order it was when I got a $49 Lifetime offer. Needless to say I jumped on it!


----------



## Beryl

ShoutingMan said:


> How do I get $99 Lifetime on my TiVo HDs? That's not listed on the TiVo website.


It is not listed. After paying for lifetime on a Roamio, I requested lifetime on an inactive HD. Usually, the deal is associated with the purchase of a new TiVo.


----------



## tivogurl

Beryl said:


> It is not listed. After paying for lifetime on a Roamio, I requested lifetime on an inactive HD. Usually, the deal is associated with the purchase of a new TiVo.


Did you call Customer Support or Sales Support?


----------



## Beryl

Sales.


----------



## ShoutingMan

HarperVision said:


> They used to send me email offers for that all the time. What finally sent me over the edge to order it was when I got a $49 Lifetime offer. Needless to say I jumped on it!


huh. Four years of paying monthly subs on two TivoHDs, and I've never gotten such an email.



tivogurl said:


> Did you call Customer Support or Sales Support?


Nope. Had no idea I should haggle with TiVo sales by phone. I wish I'd know about this a year ago 

I wish I'd realized this a year ago. I need to see if ebay actually would bring in $100+ for lifetimed TivoHD, so if its offered I can make a good decision. ( since I'll be upgrading to Roamio / Mini and selling both TiVo HDs. !


----------



## elwaylite

CoxInPHX said:


> I reboot my Premieres and Elite (and Tuning Adapters) religiously every 3 weeks and generally do not have any issues with black screens or missed recordings.


Thanks folks for all the answers.

Im the type that reboots my phone or PC after a software update/install, even reboot my roku weekly. I guess its just OCD and I was wondering about TiVo's past models, its been awhile since I had one and I could not remember.

Ill probably just do it once a week to satisfy my sickness


----------



## slowbiscuit

ShoutingMan said:


> I wish I'd realized this a year ago. I need to see if ebay actually would bring in $100+ for lifetimed TivoHD, so if its offered I can make a good decision. ( since I'll be upgrading to Roamio / Mini and selling both TiVo HDs. !


An S3 without lifetime is almost worthless now but w/lifetime can routinely fetch $250-300 on fleabay. It's a no-brainer to get it for $100 and sell the box.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Yeah I messed up had 3 S3's one was my boyfriends. Was told to keep my lifetime and the special was 2 TB premiere for 399 monthly 6.99. I had already cancelled my other Tivo and they said if my boyfriend didn't cancel it could be transferred to someone else for 6.99 or 99 for LT so I just wanted a 100 bucks for it thinking someone could buy it and get lifetime for 99 but then we found out his HDMI port is out so no one is going to want it. Mine is fine but service would be normal unless someone had another Tivo I guess they would get MSD. I was previously paying 6.95 for one and 9.95 for my boyfriends and I still have my LT one I'm keeping. Someone was going to give me 50 bucks for his cause they wanted the fan and the transformer but turned out there series 3 was different than mine, But I wish I could've gotten this new Roamio for 6.99 like they offered me on the Premiere.

But now that I am returning the Premiere and getting the Roamio they said the 6.99 was a special on the Premiere only and I now have to pay 12.99 and it's normally 14.99. Can't afford Lifetime so were paying 12.99 plus 2 x 5.99 we have two minis but I love Tivo and am so glad I didn't get Dish with the Hopper and stayed with Tivo. My Roamio just got here waiting for my boyfriend to wake up and hook it up and pack up the Premiere. We have over a 150 shows too and most are copyrighted. I wanted to transfer a few of these concerts we record on AXS TV and can't. Hopefully they will be on again soon.



slowbiscuit said:


> An S3 without lifetime is almost worthless now but w/lifetime can routinely fetch $250-300 on fleabay. It's a no-brainer to get it for $100 and sell the box.


----------



## wmcbrine

The power adapter that comes with the base Roamio is identical to the one that comes with the Stream. In fact, mine are swapped (just because of where I plugged one in first and where I ended up putting the devices).


----------



## Dan203

wmcbrine said:


> The power adapter that comes with the base Roamio is identical to the one that comes with the Stream. In fact, mine are swapped (just because of where I plugged one in first and where I ended up putting the devices).


Same in/out amps and volts? Do you have a Mini? Does that use the same one too?


----------



## DCIFRTHS

slowbiscuit said:


> An S3 without lifetime is almost worthless now but w/lifetime can routinely fetch $250-300 on fleabay. It's a no-brainer to get it for $100 and sell the box.


----------



## Surrealone

slowbiscuit said:


> An S3 without lifetime is almost worthless now but w/lifetime can routinely fetch $250-300 on fleabay. It's a no-brainer to get it for $100 and sell the box.


I hope so my S3 with PLS is on ebay right now waiting for a new happy home


----------



## wco81

Can you add the eSata drive at any time?

Say you use up most of the 1 TB internal drive.

Can you just easily connect and get more total capacity?

Then can you also easily disconnect and go back to 1 TB?


----------



## ShoutingMan

slowbiscuit said:


> An S3 without lifetime is almost worthless now but w/lifetime can routinely fetch $250-300 on fleabay. It's a no-brainer to get it for $100 and sell the box.


I'll check into it for sure. I've had poorer results recently selling on eBay, so I'm wary spending $99 in hopes of reselling for $199. But if I could make $50 to $200 on my pair of tivos, that would be great and help pay for the new Roamio.


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> Can you add the eSata drive at any time?
> 
> Say you use up most of the 1 TB internal drive.
> 
> Can you just easily connect and get more total capacity?
> 
> Then can you also easily disconnect and go back to 1 TB?


You can add an eSATA at any time, but once you do it's married to the TiVo and from then on all recordings will be spread across both drives. If you remove the eSATA then you will lose all recordings that were made after it was added.


----------



## elwaylite

Dan203 said:


> You can add an eSATA at any time, but once you do it's married to the TiVo and from then on all recordings will be spread across both drives. If you remove the eSATA then you will lose all recordings that were made after it was added.


Yepp, one thing I wish they would have changed.


----------



## bodosom

wmcbrine said:


> The power adapter that comes with the base Roamio is identical to the one that comes with the Stream.


Mine aren't but the wall ends look identical. The models numbers are different and the Stream adapter has what I assume is a ferrite choke. They do have the same power specifications -- 12V, 2.5A.


----------



## aaronwt

elwaylite said:


> Yepp, one thing I wish they would have changed.


Well has anyone tested that with the Roamio? How do we know it hasn't changed? If it has changed I would be more likely to consider using an external drive. But as long as it gets married to the internal drive, I will not consider using an external one.


----------



## jcthorne

bodosom said:


> Mine aren't but the wall ends look identical. The models numbers are different and the Stream adapter has what I assume is a ferrite choke. They do have the same power specifications -- 12V, 2.5A.


The power supply that came with my Roamio was 12v but only 2.0 amps. Seems they are sourcing a number of different power supplies....


----------



## elwaylite

aaronwt said:


> Well has anyone tested that with the Roamio? How do we know it hasn't changed? If it has changed I would be more likely to consider using an external drive. But as long as it gets married to the internal drive, I will not consider using an external one.


I spoke with chat twice and was told as much, so I just went with the EHD anyway. I need the space.


----------



## ncbill

The extended 2 or 3-year warranty Tivo sells for $30 or $40 only allows for one replacement, and you pay shipping.

With a 30% off coupon, I bought the Square Trade 3 year warranty for $63 (for DVRs up to $749.99), and they pay for unlimited repairs and they pay for shipping.



wco81 said:


> So it sounds like swapping the internal drive of the Roamio Plus wouldn't be that hard.
> 
> Of course if drive that you upgraded yourself failed, the extended warranty would be void.
> 
> However, that warranty is only good for one replacement?
> 
> Other than drive failure, what are the most common failures of Tivos?
> 
> Also it seems that if a piece of electronics is going to fail, it would fail within the first year.
> 
> Of course drives fail later and the extended warranty would get you a new unit. However, you still lose recordings and you're without your Tivo while you send in the broken one and the new one gets shipped to you. MIght be better just to swap out the drive yourself in that case.
> 
> Maybe that argues against the extended warranty, especially the 3 year one?


----------



## Fofer

aaronwt said:


> Well has anyone tested that with the Roamio? How do we know it hasn't changed? If it has changed I would be more likely to consider using an external drive. But as long as it gets married to the internal drive, I will not consider using an external one.


I'd never consider an external. For that reason, and more.

Now that we've learned internal upgrades are so easy on the Roamio (just pop in a large drive and it formats itself) I'd certainly suggest that route over an external. Even if it affected the warranty. (Does it?)



elwaylite said:


> I spoke with chat twice and was told as much, so I just went with the EHD anyway.


I suspect both of those CSR's know less than any of us about the subject. I'm not saying they are wrong, just saying, it's still possible this has changed, and they're just repeating what they know about older TiVo's. And it's obvious that lots have changed on the new TiVo platform, specifically with regards to HDD management!



elwaylite said:


> I need the space.


So do the (now much easier!) internal HDD upgrade.


----------



## PaulNEPats

ncbill said:


> The extended 2 or 3-year warranty Tivo sells for $30 or $40 only allows for one replacement, and you pay shipping.
> 
> With a 30% off coupon, I bought the Square Trade 3 year warranty for $63 (for DVRs up to $749.99), and they pay for unlimited repairs and they pay for shipping.


I usually go with squaretrade as well, but what if they can't repair it and cut you a check? How would you transfer lifetime?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## elwaylite

Yeah, ive already gotten recordings on it, Ill have to look at an internal upgrade next time I can zero out. Probably will be zeroed in Dec this year or Aug of next year, so Ill do it then.


----------



## Fofer

elwaylite said:


> Yeah, ive already gotten recordings on it, Ill have to look at an internal upgrade next time I can zero out. Probably will be zeroed in Dec this year or Aug of next year, so Ill do it then.


Understood. Yeah, this is why I do the internal upgrade before I even start using it. I put the original, unused (stock) HDD on the shelf for safe keeping.


----------



## ncbill

you wouldn't.

the check would be for the price shown on your invoice - for my roamio basic that's ~$600.



PaulNEPats said:


> I usually go with squaretrade as well, but what if they can't repair it and cut you a check? How would you transfer lifetime?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## larrs

I see the remote is RF. Do they have learning capability? I need the RF as I have the main Tivo connected to two different TVs, but also need the learning as my sound bar in my second viewing room has no code in any of the Tivo's internal databases.


----------



## slowbiscuit

elwaylite said:


> Yeah, ive already gotten recordings on it, Ill have to look at an internal upgrade next time I can zero out. Probably will be zeroed in Dec this year or Aug of next year, so Ill do it then.


Or just install pyTivo or kmttg on a PC then transfer them off and back after you redo the drives.


----------



## moyekj

larrs said:


> I see the remote is RF. Do they have learning capability? I need the RF as I have the main Tivo connected to two different TVs, but also need the learning as my sound bar in my main room has no code in any of Tivo's databases.


 Unfortunately no IR learning which is pretty ludicrous.


----------



## aaronwt

ncbill said:


> The extended 2 or 3-year warranty Tivo sells for $30 or $40 only allows for one replacement, and you pay shipping.
> 
> With a 30% off coupon, I bought the Square Trade 3 year warranty for $63 (for DVRs up to $749.99), and they pay for unlimited repairs and they pay for shipping.


The squaretrade warranty is probably like the BestBuy warranty. It covers a bunch of repairs but as soon as the box is replaced then the warranty is gone. The tivo warranty is the same way only they always replace it. Which is why it's only used once.


----------



## Fofer

The TiVo warranty is also only 90 days. Since Lifetime Service is a sizable $$ add-on that's tied forever to that box, that's not a comforting warranty. 90 days is a joke.

My thought is, on a TiVo with Lifetime service, a (discounted 30%) SquareTrade warranty isn't necessarily a bad idea. I also have a feeling they'd be less strict when/if it came to a warranty issue on a TiVo that's been upgraded with a new internal HDD by the user.


----------



## wco81

Wait, if the remote is RF only, does that mean it won't control the power or volume on TVs?


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> The squaretrade warranty is probably like the BestBuy warranty. It covers a bunch of repairs but as soon as the box is replaced then the warranty is gone. The tivo warranty is the same way only they always replace it. Which is why it's only used once.





Fofer said:


> The TiVo warranty is also only 90 days. Since Lifetime Service is a sizable $$ add-on that's tied forever to that box, that's not a comforting warranty. 90 days is a joke.
> 
> My thought is, on a TiVo with Lifetime service, a (discounted 30%) SquareTrade warranty isn't necessarily a bad idea. I also have a feeling they'd be less strict when/if it came to a warranty issue on a TiVo that's been upgraded with a new internal HDD by the user.


Will SquareTrade qualify for lifetime transfer though? I guess you could include lifetime in the cost for the quote, but at that point it is probably even more than Best Buy.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

wco81 said:


> Wait, if the remote is RF only, does that mean it won't control the power or volume on TVs?


It's RF and IR. TV control works fine.


----------



## Fofer

wco81 said:


> Wait, if the remote is RF only, does that mean it won't control the power or volume on TVs?


It's RF as well as IR.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

I just realized you can Thumbs Up/Down suggestions on the Discovery Bar on the Roamio... is that new? I don't remember being able to do that on the Premiere.

There aren't any ads there yet so can't thumbs-down those.


----------



## Beryl

Fofer said:


> The TiVo warranty is also only 90 days. Since Lifetime Service is a sizable $$ add-on that's tied forever to that box, that's not a comforting warranty. 90 days is a joke.
> 
> My thought is, on a TiVo with Lifetime service, a (discounted 30%) SquareTrade warranty isn't necessarily a bad idea. I also have a feeling they'd be less strict when/if it came to a warranty issue on a TiVo that's been upgraded with a new internal HDD by the user.


I think I'll go with SquareTrade as well. I have A LOT of things covered by them now and my lifetime Premiere 3-year warranty with TiVo runs out next year.

Has anyone confirmed that they'd cover the entire invoice -- the device and lifetime -- and not just replace the device w/o the warranty?


----------



## ncbill

Ummmm...that's why I bought (for $63) the "up to $749.99" plan for DVRs (you specify it is for a DVR and pick "Tivo" as the brand) to cover the Roamio Basic w/ lifetime (roughly $600 on my receipt)



innocentfreak said:


> Will SquareTrade qualify for lifetime transfer though? I guess you could include lifetime in the cost for the quote, but at that point it is probably even more than Best Buy.


----------



## innocentfreak

ncbill said:


> Ummmm...that's why I bought (for $63) the "up to $749.99" plan for DVRs (you specify it is for a DVR and pick "Tivo" as the brand) to cover the Roamio Basic w/ lifetime (roughly $600 on my receipt)


Which like I said comes out more than the Best Buy warranty. The BB 4 year is $34.99. Squaretrade is $64.99 for 3 years without coupon. Even with a 30% coupon it is more expensive.


----------



## Fofer

Yeah, definitely use a 30% discount code with ST. They're everywhere.


----------



## ncbill

Does the BB extended warranty pay you the invoice (hardware + lifetime) if they can't fix it after 3 attempts (ST's 'no lemon' coverage)?

That would be a deal, if my local BB had the Roamio in stock, which they don't. 

Of course, my first Roamio died in under 24 hours, so if the replacement has the same problem I'll just return everything to Tivo for a refund and look at BB for a future Roamio purchase.

TIA for any add'l info on the BB plan!



innocentfreak said:


> Which like I said comes out more than the Best Buy warranty. The BB 4 year is $34.99. Squaretrade is $64.99 for 3 years without coupon. Even with a 30% coupon it is more expensive.


----------



## Goober96

If one gets a 3 year warranty from TiVo is the lifetime service transferred to the new box in all cases or is it always lost or something in between?


----------



## innocentfreak

ncbill said:


> Does the BB extended warranty pay you the invoice (hardware + lifetime) if they can't fix it after 3 attempts (ST's 'no lemon' coverage)?
> 
> That would be a deal, if my local BB had the Roamio in stock, which they don't.
> 
> Of course, my first Roamio died in under 24 hours, so if the replacement has the same problem I'll just return everything to Tivo for a refund and look at BB for a future Roamio purchase.
> 
> TIA for any add'l info on the BB plan!


Not to my knowledge. If BB can't repair the TiVo, you get a new one off the shelf and fax your paperwork to TiVo to transfer lifetime. They will transfer lifetime with a warranty exchange.



Goober96 said:


> If one gets a 3 year warranty from TiVo is the lifetime service transferred to the new box in all cases or is it always lost or something in between?


Yes. They ship you a new/refurb TiVo replacement with the same plan.

With any third party warranty exchange, TiVo will transfer the service plan to the new TiVo after you send them the paperwork.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20



> Product Lifetime Service is valid only for the life of the TiVo DVR for which it was originally purchased and can be transferred to another DVR only in one of the following situations:
> 
> You activated the TiVo DVR with Product Lifetime Service less than 30 days ago.
> The TiVo DVR was exchanged under warranty, either through the retailer or the manufacturer. (Proof of this exchange will be required).
> The TiVo DVR was activated under an incorrect service number.


The retailer or manufacturer wording is why I suspect they wouldn't honor a Square Trade warranty exchange which is why you would have to cover the lifetime service which drives the price up.


----------



## ericlhyman

jmpage2 said:


> I still don't see that TiVo left antenna customers out "in the cold".
> 
> Let's see.
> 
> 1. They now get a quad tuner box, which is double the tuners they've been able to do OTA.
> 
> 2. They now have support for the TiVo Mini via MoCA adapter.
> 
> 3. They now have the option (their discretion of course) to drop a huge hard drive into a base Roamio and have it load the software to it with no muss no fuss.


Does adding a larger hard drive void the warranty if you get the 3-year Tivo extended warranty? Which hard drives can be added (brands and specifications)?


----------



## ppartekim

ericlhyman said:


> Does adding a larger hard drive void the warranty if you get the 3-year Tivo extended warranty? Which hard drives can be added (brands and specifications)?


Whole thread devoted to Roamio hard drive upgrading - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9789976#post9789976


----------



## Dan203

ericlhyman said:


> Does adding a larger hard drive void the warranty if you get the 3-year Tivo extended warranty?


Yes. Technically the warranty is void is you open the case for any reason. Now some people have had success with getting an upgraded TiVo repaired under warranty by putting the original drive back in, but TiVo can tell via their logs if you've upgraded so they could still refuse you if they want.


----------



## Beryl

Dan203 said:


> Yes. Technically the warranty is void is you open the case for any reason. Now some people have had success with getting an upgraded TiVo repaired under warranty by putting the original drive back in, but TiVo can tell via their logs if you've upgraded so they could still refuse you if they want.


Makes a stronger case to get SquareTrade instead.


----------



## jmpage2

Dan203 said:


> Yes. Technically the warranty is void is you open the case for any reason. Now some people have had success with getting an upgraded TiVo repaired under warranty by putting the original drive back in, but TiVo can tell via their logs if you've upgraded so they could still refuse you if they want.


Is there a single documented case of TiVo ever doing that? I suspect not.


----------



## Goober96

innocentfreak said:


> Not to my knowledge. If BB can't repair the TiVo, you get a new one off the shelf and fax your paperwork to TiVo to transfer lifetime. They will transfer lifetime with a warranty exchange.
> 
> Yes. They ship you a new/refurb TiVo replacement with the same plan.
> 
> With any third party warranty exchange, TiVo will transfer the service plan to the new TiVo after you send them the paperwork.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20
> 
> The retailer or manufacturer wording is why I suspect they wouldn't honor a Square Trade warranty exchange which is why you would have to cover the lifetime service which drives the price up.


Then why buy a more expensive warranty from anywhere else when TiVo sells them for 39.95?


----------



## ncbill

IIRC the extended warranty Tivo sells is only good for one replacement.

Under that plan I don't believe they even try to fix the unit, they just send you a replacement.



Goober96 said:


> Then why buy a more expensive warranty from anywhere else when TiVo sells them for 39.95?


----------



## innocentfreak

Goober96 said:


> Then why buy a more expensive warranty from anywhere else when TiVo sells them for 39.95?


Best Buy is 4 years on the base for $34.99. Also you are dealing with BB for warranty so upgrades may be less of an issue.


----------



## ncbill

Well, that's what Tivo claims, but I doubt they would prevail in court.

People forget auto manufacturers used to try and deny warranty claims if the owner (not the dealer) changed the oil.

Anyway, it's moot given the short duration of the warranty Tivo itself offers.

People who want to DIY upgrade should just plan on buying an extended warranty plan, since those are all offered by 3rd parties who would have no idea you 'popped the hood' as long as you put the original drive back.

I love the design of the Roamio Basic - the components most likely to fail on Tivos (power supply, hard drive) are now easy-peasy replacements (no more soldering required to fix a bad PSU!)



Dan203 said:


> Yes. Technically the warranty is void is you open the case for any reason. Now some people have had success with getting an upgraded TiVo repaired under warranty by putting the original drive back in, but TiVo can tell via their logs if you've upgraded so they could still refuse you if they want.


----------



## TishTash

Dan203 said:


> No. The Roamio can continue to talk to the Minis via MoCa while talking to the internet via Wifi. So you should be able to eliminate the MoCa adapter attached to your router.


I always thought if you didn't have a MoCA-capable DVR connected directly to the router, you had to have a MoCA bridge. Why does the Roamio obviate that requirement?


----------



## Dan203

TishTash said:


> I always thought if you didn't have a MoCA-capable DVR connected directly to the router, you had to have a MoCA bridge. Why does the Roamio obviate that requirement?


Only the Roamio Plus/Pro can do this. And it can do it because it has a MoCa bridge built in. The Mini is only a MoCa client, but the Roamio Plus/Pro (and Premiere 4 tuner unit) can all act as a MoCa bridge.


----------



## Dan203

jmpage2 said:


> Is there a single documented case of TiVo ever doing that? I suspect not.


I have no idea, but even if they haven't would you want to risk being the first case? By opening the case you're taking the risk that, even with an extended warranty, TiVo could deny your claim and you could lose your lifetime service.

I personally decided the risk wasn't worth it so I paid extra for the Pro and plan to get a 3 year extended warranty from TiVo. It'll probably cost me more long term, but for me it was worth the peace of mind.


----------



## innocentfreak

jmpage2 said:


> Is there a single documented case of TiVo ever doing that? I suspect not.


Ask Aaronwt. It happened to him.


----------



## Johncv

aaronwt said:


> Well has anyone tested that with the Roamio? How do we know it hasn't changed? If it has changed I would be more likely to consider using an external drive. But as long as it gets married to the internal drive, I will not consider using an external one.


As I understand it that the way an eSATA is suppose to work. Once you connect an eSATA drive it create one drive with the internal and external drive. Now on the SA box that I have eSATA connected if there is space on the internal it will record on that first before it records anything on the external drive.


----------



## nooneuknow

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I just realized you can Thumbs Up/Down suggestions on the Discovery Bar on the Roamio... is that new? I don't remember being able to do that on the Premiere.
> 
> There aren't any ads there yet so can't thumbs-down those.


That existed on the original Premiere 2-tuner, TCD746320. Not sure if it was always there, but I found that function over two years ago.

I quit bothering, as it seems while you can TU, TD, it doesn't change a darn thing I (that I was able to ever observe).

I was hoping a triple TD, on things that didn't interest me would make them vanish, like suggestions do. But, it didn't do that for me.


----------



## nooneuknow

jmpage2 said:


> Is there a single documented case of TiVo ever doing that? I suspect not.


It happened to me. Look at my sig. TiVo refuses to even provide technical support, due to the DIY (DVR_DUDE) upgrade drives.


----------



## b_scott

anyone had luck transferring lifetime to a Roamio? I assume you can't, but I thought I'd check.


----------



## lessd

b_scott said:


> anyone had luck transferring lifetime to a Roamio? I assume you can't, but I thought I'd check.


No problem, I just used my credit card to xfer Lifetime onto my Roamio, but I did have to take a loss of $400.


----------



## wco81

Is there an MSD discount for getting the lifetimes for the Roamio and the Mini at the same time?


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

wco81 said:


> Is there an MSD discount for getting the lifetimes for the Roamio and the Mini at the same time?


I don't believe Minis are eligible for MSD or create an MSD option for the Roamio. I've never seen it.

if you have no TiVo today, you're better off doing the PLSR code for the Roamio (and hoping it works).


----------



## Fofer

What is "PLSR?" The code itself? Or is than an abbreviation for something?


----------



## jmpage2

Fofer said:


> What is "PLSR?"


A code you put in at checkout when activating your tivo service.


----------



## Bryan Lyle

lessd said:


> No problem, I just used my credit card to xfer Lifetime onto my Roamio, but I did have to take a loss of $400.


Ok. That made me chuckle.


----------



## Fofer

jmpage2 said:


> A code you put in at checkout when activating your tivo service.


Cool. Thanks. Assuming it works, what discount does it get you?


----------



## b_scott

lessd said:


> No problem, I just used my credit card to xfer Lifetime onto my Roamio, but I did have to take a loss of $400.


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

Fofer said:


> Cool. Thanks. Assuming it works, what discount does it get you?


$100 off lifetime.


----------



## Loach

Fofer said:


> What is "PLSR?" The code itself? Or is than an abbreviation for something?


It's the code you put in at checkout, but it probably stood for "Product Lifetime Service Rebate" or something like that. It takes Lifetime from $499.99 to $399.99.


----------



## JWhites

lessd said:


> No problem, I just used my credit card to xfer Lifetime onto my Roamio, but I did have to take a loss of $400.


Hey if you feel like taking another loss, I wouldn't mind getting a free Roamio Plus I'll handle its subscription


----------



## lessd

JWhites said:


> Hey if you feel like taking another loss, I wouldn't mind getting a free Roamio Plus I'll handle its subscription


My remark was in answer to someone who wanted to know how to xfer lifetime to a Roamio (the poster most likely wanted to do it for free and I guess you do also)


----------



## brianric

lessd said:


> No problem, I just used my credit card to xfer Lifetime onto my Roamio, but I did have to take a loss of $400.


----------



## TishTash

Dan203 said:


> Only the Roamio Plus/Pro can do this. And it can do it because it has a MoCa bridge built in. The Mini is only a MoCa client, but the Roamio Plus/Pro (and Premiere 4 tuner unit) can all act as a MoCa bridge.


Right, but you still need that MoCa bridge to be hardwired to the router, be it a standalone or in a TiVo Roamio +/Pro or TiVo Premier 4, no? For example, I have a Premier 4, for a variety of reasons it can't be next to the router. Therefore I need a MoCa bridge wired to the router to form a working MoCa network. I read the original msg as implying that with a Roamio +/Pro NOT connected to the router, one needn't have a MoCa bridge (standalone or inside a TiVo) connected to the router; I contend you need SOME kind of MoCa bridge directly connected to the router, even with the Roamio +/Plus somewhere in the mix. Am I misled?


----------



## jmpage2

TishTash said:


> Right, but you still need that MoCa bridge to be hardwired to the router, be it a standalone or in a TiVo Roamio +/Pro or TiVo Premier 4, no? For example, I have a Premier 4, for a variety of reasons it can't be next to the router. Therefore I need a MoCa bridge wired to the router to form a working MoCa network. I read the original msg as implying that with a Roamio +/Pro, one needn't have a MoCa bridge (standalone or inside a TiVo) connected to the router; I contend you need SOME kind of MoCa bridge connected to the router, even with the Roamio +/Plus. Am I misled?


You are correct but as the Roamio plus and pro have built in wifi it is unlikely that the router distance limitation you describe will be a problem. Either way as long as your Roamio has a connection to the home network you won't need aMoCA adapter.


----------



## aindik

jmpage2 said:


> You are correct but as the Roamio plus and pro have built in wifi it is unlikely that the router distance limitation you describe will be a problem. Either way as long as your Roamio has a connection to the home network you won't need aMoCA adapter.


I don't think that's right.

The reason to use MOCA for intra home streaming is because wifi is too slow. So I don't think they support MOCA bridging over wifi because it would defeat the purpose.

You need either a MOCA bridge, or a Roamio plus or pro, connected to the router via Ethernet.


----------



## falcon26

I don't get TIVO. I have a series 4 TIVO. Nearly 50% of the menus are still SD. Series 4 came out like 2 years ago. If you look at Directv, Dish, Comcast etc etc their DVR's are 100% HD 4-6 tuners and their GUI is just as good as TIVO. And its cheaper per month. To me TIVO is something that is stuck in the past. And the only reason they are still around is because they sue everyone that has a DVR. I am probably going to ditch my TIVO for the new comcast X1 DVR. I've used it and to me it light years better than TIVO. My TIVO locks up on a pretty regular basis. I have to unplug it then plug it back in at least 1 or twice a week. I've also had 2 TIVO's go in in pretty much exactly 1 year and a few days after the warranty expired. Perfec timing.


----------



## Jonathan_S

aindik said:


> jmpage2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct but as the Roamio plus and pro have built in wifi it is unlikely that the router distance limitation you describe will be a problem. Either way as long as your Roamio has a connection to the home network you won't need aMoCA adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that's right.
> 
> The reason to use MOCA for intra home streaming is because wifi is too slow. So I don't think they support MOCA bridging over wifi because it would defeat the purpose.
> 
> You need either a MOCA bridge, or a Roamio plus or pro, connected to the router via Ethernet.
Click to expand...

As long as _all_ your TiVos are on MoCA and the Roamio is just bridging the internet connection over wifi you'd probably be fine. (Assuming it suuports bridging over wifi at all; does it?)

All your high bandwidth in home streaming would stay on MoCA and never hit the lower bandwidth wifi. Still, if you _can_ run an ethernet cable to the Roamio that'd probably be best.


----------



## Dave in Houston

falcon26 said:


> If you look at Directv, Dish, Comcast etc etc their DVR's are 100% HD 4-6 tuners and their GUI is just as good as TIVO.


Is this really true? I've had DirecTivo R10 (SD) units for many years. One of them failed recently, and DirecTV replaced it with their current SD DVR product. I hate the user interface so much I want to throw the remote across the room every time I use it.

That's why I'm in here reading about Roamio, even though I would have to change to Comcast as the content provider.


----------



## Fofer

falcon26 said:


> I don't get TIVO. I have a series 4 TIVO. Nearly 50% of the menus are still SD. Series 4 came out like 2 years ago. If you look at Directv, Dish, Comcast etc etc their DVR's are 100% HD 4-6 tuners and their GUI is just as good as TIVO. And its cheaper per month. To me TIVO is something that is stuck in the past. And the only reason they are still around is because they sue everyone that has a DVR. I am probably going to ditch my TIVO for the new comcast X1 DVR. I've used it and to me it light years better than TIVO. My TIVO locks up on a pretty regular basis. I have to unplug it then plug it back in at least 1 or twice a week. I've also had 2 TIVO's go in in pretty much exactly 1 year and a few days after the warranty expired. Perfec timing.


If I had that same experience with a broken TiVo (needing to reboot 1-2 a week? Really?) then I would feel the same. More likely, after 2-3 weeks I would realize TiVo was broken and I'd fix it or get it replaced. No way would I put up with that for more than 3 months. I have complaints about my Premiere for sure, but I've rarely, if ever had to reboot it. Maybe once every six months or so?

The competition is mounting (and has come a long way) but I still give the (slight) edge to TiVo, at least for those on cable. Of course, I say this as someone who also has AppleTVs and Rokus and Chromecasts.


----------



## HarperVision

Dave in Houston said:


> Is this really true? I've had DirecTivo R10 (SD) units for many years. One of them failed recently, and DirecTV replaced it with their current SD DVR product. I hate the user interface so much I want to throw the remote across the room every time I use it.
> 
> That's why I'm in here reading about Roamio, even though I would have to change to Comcast as the content provider.


No, it's not even close to being true. Their GUI for dtv is so plain and boring and pales in comparison to TiVo. I know, I use both on a regular basis. And it's not cheaper either, at least in my case.


----------



## bradleys

falcon26 said:


> I don't get TIVO. I have a series 4 TIVO. Nearly 50% of the menus are still SD. Series 4 came out like 2 years ago. If you look at Directv, Dish, Comcast etc etc their DVR's are 100% HD 4-6 tuners and their GUI is just as good as TIVO. And its cheaper per month. To me TIVO is something that is stuck in the past. And the only reason they are still around is because they sue everyone that has a DVR. I am probably going to ditch my TIVO for the new comcast X1 DVR. I've used it and to me it light years better than TIVO. My TIVO locks up on a pretty regular basis. I have to unplug it then plug it back in at least 1 or twice a week. I've also had 2 TIVO's go in in pretty much exactly 1 year and a few days after the warranty expired. Perfec timing.


50%?

Troll....


----------



## tomhorsley

Hey. I'd rather have plain TTY style text that actually draws fast rather than waiting hours for "My Shows" to render in beautiful HD .


----------



## falcon26

TROLL? Really I've been on here and posting for years. I'm more a ticked off TIVO customer. I don't understand why it takes years to get a full 100% HD GUI when every other provider has had it for years. I've been threw 3 series 4 TIVO's in less then 2 years. The problem I have now on my main TIVO is, when I hit the TIVO button, and your current show you are watching goes into the top right hand corner, that's all I get. The rest of the screen is all blacked out and you can't get out of that. I have to unplug my TIVO and plug it back in again. That happens at least twice a week. For something that has been out for sooo long you would think that it would be smooth and less bug prone then this. I have 3 series 4 TIVO's BTW...


----------



## bodosom

falcon26 said:


> TROLL?


I can't speak to other providers but as a switching DirecTV customer I know that either of the two-tuner HR23/24 units can be brought to your house with a default order. The five-tuner HR44 is extra and is a more complex order. I'm not sure about the state of the four-tuner HR34.

Whether the GUI is HD or SD is less important than how the space is used. DTV uses it poorly. Frankly I think the quality of the tablet app is more important and the TiVo is enormously better than the current DTV app.

And just try and do something useful with SHEF (other than buy the Crestron app). kmttg is still useful on my Roamio.


----------



## SullyND

falcon26 said:


> I've been threw 3 series 4 TIVO's in less then 2 years.


Well, if you stopped throwing them, maybe they'd last?


----------



## mvalpreda

For those interested/confused about MoCA......From my router at home I take one of those the gig ports into a TiVo Premiere XL4. That is connected via coax to the rest of the house. My Mini picks up the MoCA and does its thing. I have another Premiere XL4 connected via coax and I take the Ethernet out of that to the gigabit switch port on an Apple Airport Extreme 802.11ac that I use for wireless and Ethernet runs to my Slingbox and another Ethernet run to my 4k BluRay player 

I used to have MoCA bridges everywhere. Now I just have TiVos! It's so much cleaner. Less wires = happy wife = happy life.


----------



## mvalpreda

Did anyone notice Weaknees has upgraded Base and Plus Roamios? I may pony up the extra $100 for a Plus with 2TB to replace a Premiere XL4 I have.

Until I realized they change CA tax. Woof.


----------



## Fofer

Also note that Roamios are dead simple to upgrade yourself now. Just pop in any size dive and the box will format and prepare it for you. Not sure I'd pay Weaknees for that now...


----------



## Dan203

A 2TB drive is about $100 anyway...

http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-Video-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8

So the price is the same. Might as well have Weaknees do the work for you and provide a warranty.

Now if you wanted 3TB there is about a $40 price difference so doing it yourself makes sense.


----------



## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> A 2TB drive is about $100 anyway...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-Video-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8
> 
> So the price is the same. Might as well have Weaknees do the work for you and provide a warranty.


 Except that doing it yourself you also get to keep the original drive as a backup/fallback which you don't get via Weaknees.


----------



## awsnyde

falcon26 said:


> I don't understand why it takes years to get a full 100% HD GUI when every other provider has had it for years. I've been threw 3 series 4 TIVO's in less then 2 years. The problem I have now on my main TIVO is, when I hit the TIVO button, and your current show you are watching goes into the top right hand corner, that's all I get. The rest of the screen is all blacked out and you can't get out of that. I have to unplug my TIVO and plug it back in again. That happens at least twice a week.


I think the idea that competitor's GUIs are even remotely as good as TiVo's is laughable. A GUI is representative of the whole interface, including how it works and its functionality. The "G" in GUI just means that the user's interaction with the user interface is through graphical means, not a textual command line. The GUI is much more than the sum of the graphics. Even if *none* of TiVo's menus were HD, it would still beat all the others due to functionality and ease of use. However, only a small minority of the lesser used menus are still only in SD--basically just the settings menus now.

Also, I've had TiVos since the original HD DVR, the old TiVo DirecTV DVR, and haven't had any of them go bad. Surprisingly, I've never even had a hard disk in a TiVo go bad.

That said, I do have the same problem that you have with the entire screen going blank except for the current video screen in the upper-right-hand corner, although it only happens about once a month, both on my Premiere Elite and my Premiere XL.

I had been resorting to unplugging and restarting when that happened, like you did, but I recently discovered a way to fix it. You'll need the iPhone or similar app. Bring up the TiVo that's "stuck", bring up the My Shows list, and select one to play. The show you selected should start playing full screen. Let it play for a minute or so, and everything will be back to normal.

I've used that method a couple of times now, once on each TiVo, and it's worked both times.


----------



## mvalpreda

Wait, what? You just put in a drive and that's it? If that is really the case I'll just buy a TiVo someplace where I don't get hammered on tax and buy a 2TB drive. 

I feel like someone might be pulling my leg here.


----------



## Dan203

mvalpreda said:


> Wait, what? You just put in a drive and that's it? If that is really the case I'll just buy a TiVo someplace where I don't get hammered on tax and buy a 2TB drive.
> 
> I feel like someone might be pulling my leg here.


They're not pulling your leg. The TiVo OS is stored on a flash drive built into the mobo. So you can just pop in a blank drive and the TiVo will format it and kick you off in Guided Setup.

All current TiVos are shipping with AV specific drives, but a few people have reported putting in standard green drives and said they work fine.

Check this thread for more info...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695


----------



## mvalpreda

Well how about that. Good move TiVo. I am sure it boots significantly faster!


----------



## Dan203

mvalpreda said:


> Well how about that. Good move TiVo. I am sure it boots significantly faster!


From what I hear it's not as fast as you'd think. Apparently it still does a bunch of security checks at start up so it takes a couple minutes. But it's suppose to be a little faster then the Premiere and significantly faster then a S3.


----------



## moyekj

mvalpreda said:


> I am sure it boots significantly faster!


 Nope. Boot time is not significantly faster than series 4 units. All the security checks to prevent hacking are no doubt still in place which is something that slows down the boot process.
EDIT: I didn't see Dan's post when submitting this (looks like they were within seconds apart).


----------



## rgranber

Roamio plus boot time is 3:30.


----------



## HarperVision

bodosom said:


> I can't speak to other providers but as a switching DirecTV customer I know that either of the two-tuner HR23/24 units can be brought to your house with a default order. The five-tuner HR44 is extra and is a more complex order. I'm not sure about the state of the four-tuner HR34.


They are giving the Genie system away free to new customers now as default. Also, the HR34 and 44 both have 5 tuners and are essentially the same, except the 44 is the newer version with wifi, external power brick and a faster processor (similar to the p4 units compared to the new Roamio)


----------



## Dan203

moyekj said:


> EDIT: I didn't see Dan's post when submitting this (looks like they were within seconds apart).


Winner!!!!! :up:


----------



## wco81

But the UI is faster?

Like changing menus, saving a SP, searching?


----------



## Johncv

Dave in Houston said:


> Is this really true? I've had DirecTivo R10 (SD) units for many years. One of them failed recently, and DirecTV replaced it with their current SD DVR product. I hate the user interface so much I want to throw the remote across the room every time I use it.
> 
> That's why I'm in here reading about Roamio, even though I would have to change to Comcast as the content provider.


Why did not get a Direct TiVo HD unit?


----------



## CoxInPHX

falcon26 said:


> I don't get TIVO. I have a series 4 TIVO. Nearly 50% of the menus are still SD. Series 4 came out like 2 years ago. If you look at Directv, Dish, Comcast etc etc their DVR's are 100% HD 4-6 tuners and their GUI is just as good as TIVO. And its cheaper per month. To me TIVO is something that is stuck in the past. And the only reason they are still around is because they sue everyone that has a DVR. I am probably going to ditch my TIVO for the new comcast X1 DVR. I've used it and to me it light years better than TIVO. *My TIVO locks up on a pretty regular basis. I have to unplug it then plug it back in at least 1 or twice a week.* I've also had 2 TIVO's go in in pretty much exactly 1 year and a few days after the warranty expired. Perfec timing.





falcon26 said:


> TROLL? Really I've been on here and posting for years. I'm more a ticked off TIVO customer. I don't understand why it takes years to get a full 100% HD GUI when every other provider has had it for years. I've been threw 3 series 4 TIVO's in less then 2 years. The problem I have now on my main TIVO is, when I hit the TIVO button, and your current show you are watching goes into the top right hand corner, that's all I get. The rest of the screen is all blacked out and you can't get out of that. *I have to unplug my TIVO and plug it back in again.* That happens at least twice a week. For something that has been out for sooo long you would think that it would be smooth and less bug prone then this. I have 3 series 4 TIVO's BTW...


Maybe that is part of your problem.

If the TiVo locks up, you should never just pull the plug. Always press the Format button, on the front of Premieres, (or Resolution button on the back of the Roamio) and hold it for 20-30 seconds until the TiVo reboots. That way the TiVo will shut-down properly, with less possibility of HDD corruption.


----------



## richbrew

SullyND said:


> Well, if you stopped throwing them, maybe they'd last?


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## morac

CoxInPHX said:


> Maybe that is part of your problem.
> 
> If the TiVo locks up, you should never just pull the plug. Always press the Format button, on the front of Premieres, (or Resolution button on the back of the Roamio) and hold it for 20-30 seconds until the TiVo reboots. That way the TiVo will shut-down properly, with less possibility of HDD corruption.


There is no way to have a TiVo "shut-down properly", which is why there is no shutdown entry on the restart screen. TiVo's file system was designed to handle being unplugged at any time. It can even handle being unplugged during a software update, though that's not recommended. Holding down format just forces a core dump and restart. It's for debugging purposes, nothing me.

There is nothing wrong with unplugging a TiVo box if it locks up. TiVo's own support instructions even say to so.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/370/kw/Unplug

Some people use the format button simply button simply because it's easier to reach than the power cord.


----------



## tomhorsley

morac said:


> Some people use the format button simply button simply because it's easier to reach than the power cord.


Heck, I've got my Premiere on a z-wave appliance switch and have a cron job that power cycles it every morning in the early AM - seems to work a little more reliably the rest of the day (while I hope that the mythical fall update will fix the incessant no signal/not authorized problems 20.3 created .


----------



## Fofer

tomhorsley said:


> Heck, I've got my Premiere on a z-wave appliance switch and have a cron job that power cycles it every morning in the early AM - seems to work a little more reliably the rest of the day (while I hope that the mythical fall update will fix the incessant no signal/not authorized problems 20.3 created .


As far as HDD corruption possibility goes, that's no different than pulling the plug daily. Without proper shutdown procedure, that can't be good for the drive/OS...


----------



## slowbiscuit

falcon26 said:


> I don't get TIVO. I have a series 4 TIVO. Nearly 50% of the menus are still SD.


90% of the ones I regularly use are in HD, and they'll fix the other 10% when they upgrade WL's and manual recordings in the fall. Settings staying in SD is a complete non-issue for me.

Having said that, it's always been a head-scratcher why they couldn't finish the job, and it makes them look amateurish and that they don't care about how their product is perceived.


----------



## lessd

rgranber said:


> Roamio plus boot time is 3:30.


I have re-booted many times my Plus with a 2Tb drive and it boots (after full setup) in less that 3 minutes, OH! and the operation system is not in flash, the flash just formats a new drive and set up the hard drive (mini OS) to use the network system than downloads the full OS.


----------



## StevesWeb

slowbiscuit said:


> Having said that, it's always been a head-scratcher why they couldn't finish the job, and it makes them look amateurish and that they don't care about how their product is perceived.


Perhaps marketing had a set date they had planned for when the software _would_ be ready, while engineering was bound by objective reality and could only ship the code that was done.


----------



## Fofer

StevesWeb said:


> Perhaps marketing had a set date they had planned for when the software would be ready, while engineering was bound by objective reality and could only ship the code that was done.


Huh? The Premiere's HDUI has been incomplete FOR YEARS now. Given how so many reviews have ridiculed TiVo over this, it is a head-scratcher indeed.


----------



## morac

Fofer said:


> As far as HDD corruption possibility goes, that's no different than pulling the plug daily. Without proper shutdown procedure, that can't be good for the drive/OS...


Again, TiVo boxes have no proper shutdown procedure. The shutdown procedure is to simply pull the plug.


----------



## jmpage2

morac said:


> Again, TiVo boxes have no proper shutdown procedure. The shutdown procedure is to simply pull the plug.


I initiate a reboot and only then pull the plug.


----------



## MHunter1

lessd said:


> it boots in less than 3 minutes


Do recordings that were in progress at the time of reboot resume immediately when the OS is ready in less than 3 minutes? With my Premiere XL4, the THX splash screen appears after about four and a half minutes but the interrupted recordings take an extra minute to resume so I lose almost six minutes of content.


----------



## Fofer

morac said:


> Again, TiVo boxes have no proper shutdown procedure. The shutdown procedure is to simply pull the plug.


Fair enough. But EVERY DAY?!?


----------



## markp99

Fofer said:


> Huh? The Premiere's HDUI has been incomplete FOR YEARS now. Given how so many reviews have ridiculed TiVo over this, it is a head-scratcher indeed.


...and seems like it'd be such a trivial update, with no impact to functionality. I realize they've probably got bigger fish to fry, but this should have been knocked off long ago, using an intern or junior resource.


----------



## wco81

Do the shipments from Tivo require signature?

They're shipping to me by UPS but the tracking page doesn't indicate if it does.


----------



## jmpage2

markp99 said:


> ...and seems like it'd be such a trivial update, with no impact to functionality. I realize they've probably got bigger fish to fry, but this should have been knocked off long ago, using an intern or junior resource.


I couldn't agree more. The switch from the nice HD screens with PIP to the crummy SD screens is quite jarring and leaves the TiVo looking unfinished. People say you don't usually see the HD screens but since settings, messages, etc are still in SD i see them all the time. Finish the HD interface TiVo, especially now that you've got a box with the muscle to pull it off.


----------



## TC25D

wco81 said:


> Do the shipments from Tivo require signature?


No..


----------



## morac

Fofer said:


> Fair enough. But EVERY DAY?!?


Well there's no reason to pull the plug everyday any way, but it's probably no worse than rebooting every day.

Rebooting isn't really any "safer" since the box could be in the process of indexing or garbage collecting or whatever when you reboot. The OS/software (and actually most modern OS) is designed to recover from that though since the original data isn't removed until after the new data is written successfully. Recordings may lose a few seconds of data before the reboot, but "who cares" at that point.


----------



## Dan203

StevesWeb said:


> Perhaps marketing had a set date they had planned for when the software _would_ be ready, while engineering was bound by objective reality and could only ship the code that was done.


That was the case with the original Premiere launch. They pre-set the launch date way in advance so it was slightly understandable when the UI was released unfinished. But now it's 3.5 years later and it's still not done. And it seems like they release an update with a few new HD screens every six months. Given how may options screens there are, at the current rate it could be years before we see it finished. :down:


----------



## Johncv

wco81 said:


> Do the shipments from Tivo require signature?
> 
> They're shipping to me by UPS but the tracking page doesn't indicate if it does.


Usually No, depends on where you live. When you order something to be ship by UPS you can have instruction added like "Leave at side door" where no one would likely see the package. Where I live a package usually arrive between 3pm to 8pm.


----------



## Dave in Houston

Johncv said:


> Why did not get a Direct TiVo HD unit?


DirecTV's current Tivo offering seems like a dead end on the evolutionary ladder. It's not quite a Tivo, and not quite a DirecTV product. If I'm going to make a change, I'd like to get a bit closer to the current state of the art.


----------



## Johncv

Dave in Houston said:


> DirecTV's current Tivo offering seems like a dead end on the evolutionary ladder. It's not quite a Tivo, and not quite a DirecTV product. If I'm going to make a change, I'd like to get a bit closer to the current state of the art.


I understand the "state of the art" part.  Not sure how much TV you watch, you will spend more money switching from DirecTV to cable > Buying a Roamia + Lifetime.


----------



## innocentfreak

Johncv said:


> I understand the "state of the art" part.  Not sure how much TV you watch, you will spend more money switching from DirecTV to cable > Buying a Roamia + Lifetime.


It depends on what his local cable charges compared to his DirecTV bill. I saved $100 a month on my bill by dropping DirecTV and switching. My DirecTV bill was more than my TV and internet bundle. Sure I had to pay for TiVo upfront, but that was covered by the $100 a month in savings.


----------



## Dave in Houston

innocentfreak said:


> It depends on what his local cable charges compared to his DirecTV bill. I saved $100 a month on my bill by dropping DirecTV and switching. My DirecTV bill was more than my TV and internet bundle. Sure I had to pay for TiVo upfront, but that was covered by the $100 a month in savings.


I need to look into how much the monthly Comcast bill would be, but the main thing I want is to make my life better. I just hate this blasted DirecTV DVR.

We watch a program or two most nights, and this DVR is making me miserable.


----------



## bitjumper

Fofer said:


> As far as HDD corruption possibility goes, that's no different than pulling the plug daily. Without proper shutdown procedure, that can't be good for the drive/OS...


To not hear my Tivo Premiere all night in the bedroom, I have a power plug timer cut power to it 12-midnight to 7-am every night. Been doing it over a year. I did call Tivo to ask them if it was okay, and they said it would be fine. Just a data point. In the future I plan on getting a Roamio for the living room and mini for the bedroom.

As someone who has developed embedded OSs, filesystems, HD drivers, etc., I suspect it is feasible that Tivo may have designed their OS, filesystem, apps, and file writes to not have a problem with power cycles at any time.


----------



## Fofer

bitjumper said:


> To not hear my Tivo Premiere all night in the bedroom, I have a power plug timer cut power to it 12-midnight to 7-am every night. Been doing it over a year. I did call Tivo to ask them if it was okay, and they said it would be fine. Just a data point. In the future I plan on getting a Roamio for the living room and mini for the bedroom.


I hear ya. I solved the ambient noise issue by putting my TiVo in the living room. HDMI out to living room TV. Looooong component cable underneath the floorboards, to the bedroom TV. Thankfully TiVo's Bluetooth slide remote works well all the way in the bedroom, too.


----------



## lessd

bitjumper said:


> To not hear my Tivo Premiere all night in the bedroom, I have a power plug timer cut power to it 12-midnight to 7-am every night. Been doing it over a year. I did call Tivo to ask them if it was okay, and they said it would be fine. Just a data point. In the future I plan on getting a Roamio for the living room and mini for the bedroom.
> 
> As someone who has developed embedded OSs, filesystems, HD drivers, etc., I suspect it is feasible that Tivo may have designed their OS, filesystem, apps, and file writes to not have a problem with power cycles at any time.


I have a timer on my TiVo and turn the power off at 4:30 am each morning back on at 5PM, been doing this for years and never had a problem.


----------



## lessd

MHunter1 said:


> Do recordings that were in progress at the time of reboot resume immediately when the OS is ready in less than 3 minutes? With my Premiere XL4, the THX splash screen appears after about four and a half minutes but the interrupted recordings take an extra minute to resume so I lose almost six minutes of content.


Did not try that but when I get time I will, the time is about 2:50 to get to the TiVo start song and video.


----------



## HarperVision

innocentfreak said:


> It depends on what his local cable charges compared to his DirecTV bill. I saved $100 a month on my bill by dropping DirecTV and switching. My DirecTV bill was more than my TV and internet bundle. Sure I had to pay for TiVo upfront, but that was covered by the $100 a month in savings.


Ditto! Mine would be in the $60+ range when I switch to TWC.


----------



## Rose4uKY

My Roamio is supposed to be here today since I got a bad one DOA Last week. I hope it comes before we go to work this afternoon so we can hook it up and call out Cable Company or even Tivo if we need help while there still open. I just moved and twice UPS would have already been here but today not yet. :-( I'm anxious to see this new Roamio.. 

If the one I got last week that wouldn't boot up is all packed up and ready to return with shipping labels and all will the UPS driver take it back is he allowed? I have to go to UPS anyway and send back our premiere which we have to pay for shipping since were just exchanging it out for the Roamio there's nothing wrong with it but the Roamio we got sent wasn't working so now were waiting on a new Roamio. And Tivo told me that I need to just return the bad Roamio and keep everything else like the remote books and cables cause Tivo may just send me a new box only. But of course on the Premiere which we just got 3 weeks ago new we know we have to send everything back that came with it.. Just wish UPS would get here already!


----------



## TishTash

jmpage2 said:


> You are correct but as the Roamio plus and pro have built in wifi it is unlikely that the router distance limitation you describe will be a problem. Either way as long as your Roamio has a connection to the home network you won't need a MoCA adapter.


So you're saying my Premiere 4 not near the router could still act as a MoCA bridge as long as it has a wireless dongle connected to the home network? I wasn't hung up so much on a MoCA bridge being hardwired via Ethernet to the router as I was on it being hardwired coaxially to the cable modem. But I suppose the cable-in on the TiVo takes care of that.

I guess my standalone MoCA bridge hardwired to the cable modem/router at the very least takes out of the equation the wifi bottleneck, once remote (outside the home network) streaming is a reality.


----------



## TishTash

Jonathan_S said:


> aindik said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that's right.
> 
> The reason to use MOCA for intra home streaming is because wifi is too slow. So I don't think they support MOCA bridging over wifi because it would defeat the purpose.
> 
> You need either a MOCA bridge, or a Roamio plus or pro, connected to the router via Ethernet.
> 
> 
> 
> As long as _all_ your TiVos are on MoCA and the Roamio is just bridging the internet connection over wifi you'd probably be fine. (Assuming it suuports bridging over wifi at all; does it?)
> 
> All your high bandwidth in home streaming would stay on MoCA and never hit the lower bandwidth wifi. Still, if you _can_ run an ethernet cable to the Roamio that'd probably be best.
Click to expand...

If the streaming stays within MoCA, that's acceptable. But as mentioned, this could become an issue once remote streaming outside the home network is implemented in the future.


----------



## jmpage2

TishTash said:


> So you're saying my Premiere 4 not near the router could still act as a MoCA bridge as long as it has a wireless dongle connected to the home network? I wasn't hung up so much on a MoCA bridge being hardwired via Ethernet to the router as I was on it being hardwired coaxially to the cable modem. But I suppose the cable-in on the TiVo takes care of that.
> 
> I guess my standalone MoCA bridge hardwired to the cable modem/router at the very least takes out of the equation the wifi bottleneck, once remote (outside the home network) streaming is a reality.


Yes, the hard-wired connection is preferable to wi-fi from a bandwidth perspective.

Remember, that even if you used the wi-fi connection as your "bridge" connection from the integrated MoCA in the Roamio pro/plus, it is still sending all the bandwidth intensive stuff (local streaming of live TV and recordings) over coax.


----------



## TishTash

mvalpreda said:


> For those interested/confused about MoCA......From my router at home I take one of those the gig ports into a TiVo Premiere XL4. That is connected via coax to the rest of the house. My Mini picks up the MoCA and does its thing. I have another Premiere XL4 connected via coax and I take the Ethernet out of that to the gigabit switch port on an Apple Airport Extreme 802.11ac that I use for wireless and Ethernet runs to my Slingbox and another Ethernet run to my 4k BluRay player
> 
> I used to have MoCA bridges everywhere. Now I just have TiVos! It's so much cleaner. Less wires = happy wife = happy life.


If I read you right, are you saying can use a TiVo (w/MoCA) as a remote Ethernet bridge to a wireless router?


----------



## Beryl

The Plus arrived today (my birthday) and the Basic & Stream went back on the same UPS truck.

The difference in build quality is significant. (The feet won't fall off of the Plus  ) Setting it up was easy, the picture is crisp, and the responsiveness is as fast as the Basic. The built-in streaming worked well. Unlike the Basic, It took a while to show up on my list of devices for the iOS app and SP management since it didn't arrive activated like the one purchased directly from TiVo. 

Xfinity OnDemand didn't show up and the connect/restart trick did not fix it. A second call to Xfinity did. The rep said there is an additional code they needed to apply for the Roamios and Premieres. 

The remote looks the same -- cheap hard plastic (not that I plan to use it). 

In all, I'm glad I went with the Plus over the Basic. I do wish it had OTA capabilities but my Premiere will handle that. (I'm guessing TiVo won't make that "mistake" in future models.)


----------



## Fofer

Beryl said:


> In all, I'm glad I went with the Plus over the Basic. I do wish it had OTA capabilities but my Premiere will handle that. (I'm guessing TiVo won't make that "mistake" in future models.)


Really? You think future models will have OTA? I don't. Seems to me like TiVo's made the decision to phase it out, just like component-out in favor of all HDMI. The Roamio Basic seems like a crossover product, with some legacy port just because... and my hunch is that it'll be the last TiVo to support OTA. I'd love to be wrong, though.


----------



## Beryl

Fofer said:


> Really? You think future models will have OTA?


I'm hoping.


----------



## atmuscarella

Fofer said:


> Really? You think future models will have OTA? I don't. Seems to me like TiVo's made the decision to phase it out, just like component-out in favor of all HDMI. The Roamio Basic seems like a crossover product, with some legacy port just because... and my hunch is that it'll be the last TiVo to support OTA. I'd love to be wrong, though.


Tivo just delivers the most advanced OTA DVR every made, the only 4 tuner OTA device available anywhere, and your conclusion is they are phasing out OTA support  I would say your conclusion is a little premature.


----------



## Fofer

Seems odd then that the "higher end" Plus and Pro models don't have OTA at all, doesn't it?


----------



## StevesWeb

atmuscarella said:


> Tivo just delivers the most advanced OTA DVR every made, the only 4 tuner OTA device available anywhere, and your conclusion is they are phasing out OTA support  I would say your conclusion is a little premature.


Mine arrived yesterday. I forgive TiVo for the Premiere XL, all of my prior complaints are resolved.

I dropped in a 3TB AV drive from WD. Everything proceeded as expected. The ATSC tuner is good, it seems to sync up after a channel change a bit faster, it receives a few channels beyond LA from here in the San Fernando valley, which startled me.

So far I'm very impressed. The speed of the UI is satisfactory, undeniably much faster.


----------



## morac

Fofer said:


> Seems odd then that the "higher end" Plus and Pro models don't have OTA at all, doesn't it?


It's not odd when you consider that a 6 tuner OTA hardware chip doesn't exist.


----------



## innocentfreak

morac said:


> It's not odd when you consider that a 6 tuner OTA hardware chip doesn't exist.


Do we even know if the Base model uses a 4 tuner chip? I imagine they would have to if they stuck to the two chip design. If so TiVo probably had to have it made since this is the first 4 tuner OTA device that I know of.


----------



## atmuscarella

Fofer said:


> Seems odd then that the "higher end" Plus and Pro models don't have OTA at all, doesn't it?


No not all, as Morac said a 6 tuner OTA chip doesn't exist (yet?). Remember TiVo doesn't actually develop the parts inside their DVRs, they buy "off the self" chips, tuners, hard drives etc. and develop their DVRs from parts any company could buy. Plus even though I am OTA and not very price concerned, I do believe many people looking for an OTA DVR are concerned about the price more so than maybe someone looking for a high end whole home cable DVR system, which is what the plus and pro models are targeted at. So for TiVo to have their OTA DVR also be their entry level DVR makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## Fofer

morac said:


> It's not odd when you consider that a 6 tuner OTA hardware chip doesn't exist.


Then it's odd that one doesn't, I guess.

We'll see next year, when the successor to the Roamio Plus (and Pro) come out. Will TiVo bring "back" OTA as a consistent feature in all their devices? We'll see.


----------



## wco81

Successor in one year?


----------



## Joe Siegler

Fofer said:


> Really? You think future models will have OTA? I don't. Seems to me like TiVo's made the decision to phase it out, just like component-out in favor of all HDMI. The Roamio Basic seems like a crossover product, with some legacy port just because... and my hunch is that it'll be the last TiVo to support OTA. I'd love to be wrong, though.


That's my feeling too. I can't see them reversing that decision and adding OTA to more product lines. I don't think it will be phased out 100%, but I can quite easily see it pigenholed into the lowest hardware footprint like it is now quite easily on future models.


----------



## aaronwt

They'll have one with a 4TB drive and a 2TB drive 

I see WD finally just came out with a 4TB Red drive. So a 4TB AV drive is probably not far behind.


----------



## jmpage2

wco81 said:


> Successor in one year?


They come out with new hardware, historically about every 12-18 months... in the case of Roamio the most likely improvements would be larger capacity, better remote control (backlit with keypad, etc).

I certainly don't see an all new platform coming out from them anytime soon.

Premiere in its various incarnations had a 3+ year run. I would expect similar to Roamio with only minor refreshes over the next 12-18 months.


----------



## Dan203

Pretty mcuh every TiVo has had a 3-4 year life cycle...

S1 - released March 1999
S2 - released january 2002
S3 - released September 2006
S4 - released March 2010
S5 - released August 2013

Every one except the S1 had some sort of mid-run hardware refresh. The S2 actually had several the first simply swapped the USB 1.0 ports for USB 2.0, the second was a complete change using cheaper hardware, and the 3rd was the S2DT. The S3 got the TiVo HD which was a cheaper design and added M-Card support. And the Premiere got the 4 tuner box.

I'm betting that in March 2015 we'll see some sort of hardware refresh, but it'll be minor.


----------



## b_scott

Fofer said:


> Then it's odd that one doesn't, I guess.
> 
> We'll see next year, when the successor to the Roamio Plus (and Pro) come out. Will TiVo bring "back" OTA as a consistent feature in all their devices? We'll see.


next year? I've had my Premieres for 3 years already. Series 4. This is Series 5. I don't think we'll see a Series 6 for another 3 years.

I don't count 4 and XL4 is a "successor" - they just added a couple tuners.


----------



## Dan203

We sort of discussed this in another thread, but I'm not sure where TiVo could go from here. Every previous generation TiVo had some deficit that we hoped would be fixed, or some feature we hoped would be added, in the next generation. But with the Roamio I can't think of any feature I'd want/need that couldn't be added via software.

The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners (max for CableCARD), 3TB hard drive (500 hours of HD), a built in transcoder and all major networking technologies. (Gigabit Ethernet, MoCa and dual band wifi) As far as hardware goes I can't think of anything that's missing so I'm wondering what a Series 6 could possible offer that we'd want. Seems like everything I can think of that I'd want is all software.

I guess maybe they could do a 6 tuner with OTA support. Or maybe a unit that uses something other then CableCARD if that Charter alternative comes to fruition. But even so those would likely be minor variations of the current hardware.

What do you think? Do you have some hardware feature in mind that you'd want included in a Series 6?


----------



## b_scott

series 6 might come out when cable ala carte starts. Not sure if that would need new tech. Probably not considering it could just be done via cablecard.

streaming 4K? IPTV?


----------



## Joe3

Does the 4 tuner OTA combine with cable in one guide for recording both?
I don't see the input for both OTA & Cable like it had been on earlier models.


----------



## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> What do you think? Do you have some hardware feature in mind that you'd want included in a Series 6?


 If they really want to be the "complete" box then they need to support more popular html5 video formats such as ogg and webm since right now it's still just mp4/h264/aac via the built in Opera browser. I'm guessing that would require a hardware update?
They also need to fix not being able to use Stream with H.264 channels which may require H264 decoding hardware as part of the Stream?


----------



## Dan203

b_scott said:


> series 6 might come out when cable ala carte starts. Not sure if that would need new tech. Probably not considering it could just be done via cablecard.
> 
> streaming 4K? IPTV?


4K is still a ways off. And there is no real standard for IPTV. There is some talk of cable companies switching to a form of DLNA, but that's probably a ways off too.


----------



## Dan203

Joe3 said:


> Does the 4 tuner OTA combine with cable in one guide for recording both?
> I don't see the input for both OTA & Cable like it had been on earlier models.


No, it's either or


----------



## Dan203

moyekj said:


> If they really want to be the "complete" box then they need to support more popular html5 video formats such as ogg and webm since right now it's still just mp4/h264/aac via the built in Opera browser. I'm guessing that would require a hardware update?
> They also need to fix not being able to use Stream with H.264 channels which may require H264 decoding hardware as part of the Stream?


I think VP8 decoding might require new hardware, but it might also be doable via a firmware update. From my understanding it's very similar to H.264 so Broadcom might be able to update the firmware on the chip in the TiVo to add VP8 decoding, if it doesn't already support it.

The chip in the Stream has an H.264 decoder already, so that is likely a software issue. I expect it will be fixed soon since more and more cable companies are starting to add H.264 channels.


----------



## atmuscarella

Dan203 said:


> We sort of discussed this in another thread, but I'm not sure where TiVo could go from here. Every previous generation TiVo had some deficit that we hoped would be fixed, or some feature we hoped would be added, in the next generation. But with the Roamio I can't think of any feature I'd want/need that couldn't be added via software.
> 
> The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners (max for CableCARD), 3TB hard drive (500 hours of HD), a built in transcoder and all major networking technologies. (Gigabit Ethernet, MoCa and dual band wifi) As far as hardware goes I can't think of anything that's missing so I'm wondering what a Series 6 could possible offer that we'd want. Seems like everything I can think of that I'd want is all software.
> 
> I guess maybe they could do a 6 tuner with OTA support. Or maybe a unit that uses something other then CableCARD if that Charter alternative comes to fruition. But even so those would likely be minor variations of the current hardware.
> 
> What do you think? Do you have some hardware feature in mind that you'd want included in a Series 6?


I pretty much agree, but who knows what's coming. Maybe HDMI 2.0, 4K support, support for whatever is coming after MPEG 4, 6 OTA tuners, support for OTA & Cable together. But honestly for OTA my new Roamio is amazing and software updates should be able to keep it cutting edge for years to come.


----------



## Balzer

Joe3 said:


> Does the 4 tuner OTA combine with cable in one guide for recording both?
> I don't see the input for both OTA & Cable like it had been on earlier models.


No, it's either cable, or antenna. Not both.


----------



## Dan203

atmuscarella said:


> Maybe HDMI 2.0, 4K support, support for whatever is coming after MPEG 4


These are all sort of one in the same. HDMI 2.0 is only needed for 4K, and the next codec after MPEG-4 is H.265 aka HEVC and will only be used for 4K. And I seriously doubt there will be any real demand for 4K within the next 3-4 years. I'm betting we're still 5+ years away from real deployment of 4K in broadcast.

I could see them maybe doing a 6 tuner OTA or OTA+Cable box, but I don't think that would warrant a whole new series. In the past they haven't changed the series unless they upgraded the main CPU. That wouldn't be necessary just to add more OTA tuners.

I'm sure we'll find some shortcomings over the next few years that we'll wish for in the S6, but at this point I just don't see it. The Roamio is the most complete TiVo, hardware wise, that has ever existed.


----------



## wco81

One reason to iterate the hardware might be to provide a more robust app. platform if it does take off.

Wouldn't it be awesome if something like Plex or XBMC was ported to this?

But Tivo may try to stay in the good graces of the content companies and disallow any app. to facilitate the viewing of "unauthorized" content -- could be pirated content or could be content that you converted from another format, like from optical media to digital.


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> One reason to iterate the hardware might be to provide a more robust app. platform if it does take off.


The apps platform is HTML5, which is where most of the industry is going. I saw a post on the Plex forurm where someone was already working on porting Plex to HTML5 for Boxee, so if that get's finished then it should be relatively easy to submit it to the Opera TV Store and have it end up on TiVo. Other major services like Amazon and VUDU already have HTML5 implementations, so they should be easy to port over as well. I don't know what other apps platform they could adopt that would be better.

I guess they could upgrade with a faster CPU and better GPU for fancier apps, but no one is really going to want to play Angry Birds using their TiVo remote anyway so that's probably unnecessary.


----------



## dswallow

The next iteration will be consolidating/miniaturizing -- more functionality combined into a single chipset, fewer things to populate on the motherboard, lower parts costs, et. al.


----------



## Dan203

I could see that. The Stream part is definitely tacked on right now (uses it's own IP address) so I could see better integration there. But that wouldn't really give us current Roamio users incentive to upgrade. Unless of course they purposely withheld software features.


----------



## wco81

Dan203 said:


> The apps platform is HTML5, which is where most of the industry is going. I saw a post on the Plex forurm where someone was already working on porting Plex to HTML5 for Boxee, so if that get's finished then it should be relatively easy to submit it to the Opera TV Store and have it end up on TiVo. Other major services like Amazon and VUDU already have HTML5 implementations, so they should be easy to port over as well. I don't know what other apps platform they could adopt that would be better.
> 
> I guess they could upgrade with a faster CPU and better GPU for fancier apps, but no one is really going to want to play Angry Birds using their TiVo remote anyway so that's probably unnecessary.


That's what I meant, more beefy SOCs with more integrated RAM.

My understanding is there's a range of performance of things like Netflix on say a tablet vs. Apple TV vs. smart TV vs. a smart Blu-Ray player, etc.

Because of differences in the processors, probably resources like RAM and hardware decoding, etc.


----------



## Dan203

I agree they'll probably beef up the hardware eventually. But if the current hardware still works good, and there are no other compelling features, then most people wont be compelled to upgrade.

See I've been on this forum for many years. Way back in the S3 days we talked about how cool it would be to have a built in transcoder for transferring to portable devices and streaming like a Slingbox. We also talked about how cool it would be to have more tuners and giant hard drives. It seems with the Roamio all of our hardware related wishes have been granted, so I'm not sure where we go from here. There are still a TON of software features I'd like to see, so I'm hoping that now that they have the hardware specs of our dreams they can focus on software and get us all those features we've been asking for for so long.


----------



## wco81

Hmm, if Tivo depends on continuing to sell hardware, they could be in trouble. The cable and satellite companies are improving their products so it'll be harder for Tivo to attract sales from the mass market.

Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.

Yeah the Roamio may be the end of the traditional DVR, at least the traditional 3rd-party DVR.

Unless the cable companies scrap Cable Card and come out with something else.


----------



## Joe Siegler

Dan203 said:


> We sort of discussed this in another thread, but I'm not sure where TiVo could go from here. Every previous generation TiVo had some deficit that we hoped would be fixed, or some feature we hoped would be added, in the next generation. But with the Roamio I can't think of any feature I'd want/need that couldn't be added via software.
> 
> The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners (max for CableCARD), 3TB hard drive (500 hours of HD), a built in transcoder and all major networking technologies. (Gigabit Ethernet, MoCa and dual band wifi) As far as hardware goes I can't think of anything that's missing so I'm wondering what a Series 6 could possible offer that we'd want. Seems like everything I can think of that I'd want is all software.
> 
> I guess maybe they could do a 6 tuner with OTA support. Or maybe a unit that uses something other then CableCARD if that Charter alternative comes to fruition. But even so those would likely be minor variations of the current hardware.
> 
> What do you think? Do you have some hardware feature in mind that you'd want included in a Series 6?


Have to wait and see what tech crops up in the meantime. Were Slingboxes around when Premieres were new? The answer to that may not exist yet.

Also with all the stuff that has been added, the Premieres have gotten pretty slow. Over time, it wouldn't surprise me if the Roamio box set slow with new things we don't know about yet.

A Series 6 would probably be a more powerful footprint, larger HD's, etc, etc. True "new stuff" is harder to say right now. Going by that chart above, the original iPhone came out about a year after Series 3 was released. Look where mobile phones are now because of that.


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> Hmm, if Tivo depends on continuing to sell hardware, they could be in trouble. The cable and satellite companies are improving their products so it'll be harder for Tivo to attract sales from the mass market.
> 
> Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.
> 
> Yeah the Roamio may be the end of the traditional DVR, at least the traditional 3rd-party DVR.
> 
> Unless the cable companies scrap Cable Card and come out with something else.


TiVo has shifting toward being an MSO DVR supplier, rather then a retail DVR, for many years. I think they see the writing on the wall. In fact if you look at the new UI on the Roamio, compared to older units, it's very generic. Replace the TiVo logo with a Comcast logo and you'd never even know it was a TiVo unless you'd seen one before. I think that's where they're ultimately heading. They may continue to sell retail units just to increase their subscriber pool, but I doubt it'll be their main source of income 5 years from now.


----------



## Dan203

Joe Siegler said:


> Have to wait and see what tech crops up in the meantime. Were Slingboxes around when Premieres were new? The answer to that may not exist yet.
> 
> Also with all the stuff that has been added, the Premieres have gotten pretty slow. Over time, it wouldn't surprise me if the Roamio box set slow with new things we don't know about yet.
> 
> A Series 6 would probably be a more powerful footprint, larger HD's, etc, etc. True "new stuff" is harder to say right now. Going by that chart above, the original iPhone came out about a year after Series 3 was released. Look where mobile phones are now because of that.


Slingbox was released in 2006, TiVo premiere in 2010, Roamio 2013. So if that tradition holds true anything that might be in the S6 3-4 years form now has already been invented.

But I understand what you're saying. I'm just not sure a beefier CPU and bigger HDD will be enough to justify a new series if the old one is still going strong. The Premiere was a piece of crap, so people were itching for something new. The Roamio has the potential to be the last TiVo I'll ever need provided they keep up the software.


----------



## Joe Siegler

Dan203 said:


> But I understand what you're saying. I'm just not sure a beefier CPU and bigger HDD will be enough to justify a new series if the old one is still going strong. The Premiere was a piece of crap, so people were itching for something new. The Roamio has the potential to be the last TiVo I'll ever need provided they keep up the software.


You've been around as long as I have. Do you believe that about keeping up software?

I mean, we still don't have Amazon Prime Streaming. Yeah, yeah, I know why. But if someone wanted it there hard enough, it would be there. Still don't have a complete HD menu system from what I'm reading.

Don't get me wrong, I'll end up with Roamios. I've had a TiVo for 13 years now, but fast moving software updates aren't really what TiVo seems to be about based on past history.


----------



## Dan203

TiVo seems to be turning over a new leaf in the last year with regards to software. I'm hoping that trend continues, or picks up pace, going forward. But I'm prepared to have my optimistic hopes dashed.


----------



## Joe Siegler

Dan203 said:


> TiVo seems to be turning over a new leaf in the last year with regards to software. I'm hoping that trend continues, or picks up pace, going forward. But I'm prepared to have my optimistic hopes dashed.


I'd love my overlay sarcastic self be proven wrong. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## innocentfreak

Dan203 said:


> TiVo seems to be turning over a new leaf in the last year with regards to software. I'm hoping that trend continues, or picks up pace, going forward. But I'm prepared to have my optimistic hopes dashed.


I remember when the Premiere had 3-4 major updates in a year, and how psyched we all were. TiVo also became suddenly open with their communication.

Then the next year it was back to hush-hush and one update.


----------



## morac

innocentfreak said:


> I remember when the Premiere had 3-4 major updates in a year, and how psyched we all were. TiVo also became suddenly open with their communication.
> 
> Then the next year it was back to hush-hush and one update.


There's a history of having a lot of updates when a new Series is released. The Series 2 used to have 4 updates a year, which slowly tapered off as it got closer to the next Series's release. The same thing happened with the Series 3 and Premiere. I expect the same thing with the Roamio.


----------



## Dan203

Well then lets hope they can cram some awesome new stuff into the Roamio over the next year.


----------



## innocentfreak

morac said:


> There's a history of having a lot of updates when a new Series is released. The Series 2 used to have 4 updates a year, which slowly tapered off as it got closer to the next Series's release. The same thing happened with the Series 3 and Premiere. I expect the same thing with the Roamio.


This was the year after though. The first year they had a bunch of quick updates which were expected, but then the second year they continued. This is when they started posting in the TiVo Blog talking about what was in the update, what was coming next, etc.

Then it all stopped.


----------



## Dan203

Yeah it was nice back in the day when we had TiVo reps hanging out on the forum and telling us what was coming down the pipe.


----------



## Joe Siegler

Dan203 said:


> Yeah it was nice back in the day when we had TiVo reps hanging out on the forum and telling us what was coming down the pipe.


Wasn't it? One of them gave me a lifetime on a DirecTiVo box back in the day, because.. you know, I can't remember why he did it now. Been too many years.


----------



## nooneuknow

Dan203 said:


> Pretty mcuh every TiVo has had a 3-4 year life cycle...
> 
> S1 - released March 1999
> S2 - released january 2002
> S3 - released September 2006
> S4 - released March 2010
> S5 - released August 2013
> 
> Every one except the S1 had some sort of mid-run hardware refresh. The S2 actually had several the first simply swapped the USB 1.0 ports for USB 2.0, the second was a complete change using cheaper hardware, and the 3rd was the S2DT. The S3 got the TiVo HD which was a cheaper design and added M-Card support. And the Premiere got the 4 tuner box.
> 
> I'm betting that in March 2015 we'll see some sort of hardware refresh, but it'll be minor.


When was The TiVo HD officially released (I know sometime between the S3 and Premiere)? That's missing.

One could also wonder if TiVo might do a similar lower-cost release of a Roamio Plus/Pro, if they find the sales are sluggish, due to price...

They could do something like take out the wireless daughterboard, and other cost saving parts, and have a Roamio "budget" with 6 tuners...


----------



## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> The apps platform is HTML5, which is where most of the industry is going. I saw a post on the Plex forurm where someone was already working on porting Plex to HTML5 for Boxee, so if that get's finished then it should be relatively easy to submit it to the Opera TV Store and have it end up on TiVo. Other major services like Amazon and VUDU already have HTML5 implementations, so they should be easy to port over as well. I don't know what other apps platform they could adopt that would be better.


Yep, check out some of these HTML5 "couch friendly" URLs... more to follow, I'm sure.

http://www.theonion.com/video/googletv/

http://vimeo.com/couchmode/staffpicks/sort:date/73790095

http://iptv-app.dailymotion.com/dm-front-googletv/dojoroot/app/pages/webkit/index.jsp?&lang=us

This thread has the developer of PyTiVo adding a command for opening URLs on the TiVo...

And here's discussion of it in kmttg: 
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-09/tivo-roamio-displays-arbitrary-web-pages-plays-web-video/

(and my interest in the Roamio just skyrocketed)


----------



## Beryl

wco81 said:


> Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.


Don't like. I have retained recordings on my TiVo from premium channels from which I stop subscribing months ago.


----------



## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> When was The TiVo HD officially released (I know sometime between the S3 and Premiere)? That's missing.
> 
> One could also wonder if TiVo might do a similar lower-cost release of a Roamio Plus/Pro, if they find the sales are sluggish, due to price...
> 
> They could do something like take out the wireless daughterboard, and other cost saving parts, and have a Roamio "budget" with 6 tuners...


The TiVoHD was actually a S3, so it wasn't a new series. It was released less then a year after the original S3. They did this because the original S3 was way to expensive ($799) and sales were suffering. The TiVo HD was a cheaper entry ($299) into the HD universe.

They did a similar thing with the S2 units with the 540 series. However they used completely different hardware then their predecessors and could have actually been considered a new series. TiVo simply chose not to designate them that way. Probably because they were total pieces of crap that were poorly made and actually slower then their predecessors in every way. The Premiere is known for being slow as crap at running the HDUI, but if you compare it to a S3 running the SDUI it is superior in every way. The 540 series S2 units were actually worse at everything compared to the 140 and 240 series S2 units that came before them. They were so cheaply made they even had a little TiVo sticker on the front that was natorious for curling up and falling off.


----------



## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> I guess they could upgrade with a faster CPU and better GPU for fancier apps, but no one is really going to want to play Angry Birds using their TiVo remote anyway so that's probably unnecessary.


Angry Birds on my _Roku_ (with the Bluetooth remote, which has a built-in accelerometer and gyroscope) is actually my favorite version of the game. I don't think it needs all that much horsepower. But it's all about UI, and the remote controller on that game is perfect for it.


----------



## astrohip

wco81 said:


> Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.


This was discussed in another thread (the concept of a cloud DVR). And while we're just one forum of advanced users, the consensus was this would be a no-go from the get-go. I want my recordings on my DVR.

And if they just TAG content, then that's just VOD. And there is no way, at this point in time, content creators are going to allow VOD without their piece of the pie. Look at how much is NOT available via VOD. They won't simply allow the MOS to provide it as if it was recorded.


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> When was The TiVo HD officially released (I know sometime between the S3 and Premiere)? That's missing.
> 
> One could also wonder if TiVo might do a similar lower-cost release of a Roamio Plus/Pro, if they find the sales are sluggish, due to price...
> 
> They could do something like take out the wireless daughterboard, and other cost saving parts, and have a Roamio "budget" with 6 tuners...


I got my Launch TiVoHD in Summer 2007. It was late July or early August.


----------



## b_scott

innocentfreak said:


> I remember when the Premiere had 3-4 major updates in a year, and how psyched we all were. TiVo also became suddenly open with their communication.
> 
> Then the next year it was back to hush-hush and one update.


I can't remember the last update. Used to be every few months.


----------



## BruceShultes

One of the changes I suspect will be added in the future is replacing the 802.11n with 802.11ac.

It won't make any difference to me, since I am hard wired, but it could make a big difference for people who have to use wireless.


----------



## wco81

Wireless ac to Ethernet bridge?


----------



## jmpage2

Wifi to ethernet bridge could be added via software but its not really of much value.


----------



## Fofer

jmpage2 said:


> Wifi to ethernet bridge could be added via software but its not really of much value.


Huh? The box already has ethernet and 802.11n.

A hardware update would be required for 802.11ac.


----------



## sbiller

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-flRhPkQnY[/media]


----------



## JohnnyO

I've had my Roamio Basic (with upgraded drive) running for a week now. This weekend I swapped it to the main TV. So far, it has been performing very well. It is a great upgrade from the TiVoHD!


----------



## Airkat

For anyone who has a Roamio and a Premiere, is it worth the upgrade? Are all the menus finally HD? I stopped following Tivo when they kept missing promises (like all HD menus and both cores activated to speed up UI).


----------



## TC25D

No, all the menus are not HD, however, the menus I use the most, are.


----------



## aaronwt

Airkat said:


> For anyone who has a Roamio and a Premiere, is it worth the upgrade? Are all the menus finally HD? I stopped following Tivo when they kept missing promises (like all HD menus and both cores activated to speed up UI).


Both cores are activated in the Premiere.

 I just dropped my slide remote. That is an extremely rare event for me.


----------



## dswallow

Airkat said:


> For anyone who has a Roamio and a Premiere, is it worth the upgrade? Are all the menus finally HD? I stopped following Tivo when they kept missing promises (like all HD menus and both cores activated to speed up UI).


It's worth the upgrade for the speed improvements alone. But it's also nice having 6 tuners instead of 4 (or 2). I'm still considering replacing a 2-tuner Premiere with a Basic model Roamio for the OTA tuners, but as I don't really use the OTA tuner except as a fallback should there be issues with cable, it's not a pressing need.


----------



## Beryl

dswallow said:


> It's worth the upgrade for the speed improvements alone. But it's also nice having 6 tuners instead of 4 (or 2). I'm still considering replacing a 2-tuner Premiere with a Basic model Roamio for the OTA tuners, but as I don't really use the OTA tuner except as a fallback should there be issues with cable, it's not a pressing need.


I have the Plus and a 2-tuner Premiere. The Roamio basic (which I replaced with a Plus), though snappier, does not feel as solid as the premiere. It is a terrific model if you don't have a TiVo or to replace a Series 3, IMO.


----------



## Fofer

By "not as solid" - what do you mean? The hardware build quality? The software/UI?


----------



## Beryl

Fofer said:


> By "not as solid" - what do you mean? The hardware build quality? The software/UI?


Hardware. Initially, I liked the fact that the Basic is more compact and doesn't need a fan. There is a person who returned the device who gave a bad "1" star review on Amazon complaining about the feet falling off in the box and being cheaply made. (I checked and that review is now gone.) I scoffed at the review leaving a snarky comment because it said nothing about functionality. Later, I understood what s/he meant as the feet on my Roamio fell off too. I do think they saved money on materials to bring it down to a price that more people can afford.

I had problems with it not starting without unplugging it from the device (not the outlet) so I decided to return mine also chalking it up to receiving a lemon. It gave me another reason to get the Plus . I left my good review on Amazon but downgraded it from "5" to "4" stars.


----------



## philter25

FYI for anyone using the Roamio with TiVo Minis, make sure if you have splitters in your house they are at least 1500k. I had 1000k splitters from a FiOS install and they wouldnt pass the MoCa signal. As soon as I installed 1 GHz splitters, it worked.


----------



## aaronwt

philter25 said:


> FYI for anyone using the Roamio with TiVo Minis, make sure if you have splitters in your house they are at least 1500k. I had 1000k splitters from a FiOS install and they wouldnt pass the MoCa signal. As soon as I installed 1 GHz splitters, it worked.


When I was having connection issues that turned out to be a green switch problem, I had switched everything back to MoCA. Connections between my Roamio Pro and Minis were fine in my setup with an eight way FiOS supplied 1Ghz splitter and two of my own 1Ghz supplied splitters.

Are you sure your Roamio wasn't trying to use one of the higher channels that is out of range?


----------



## moyekj

MoCA 1.0 can use 850-1500 MHz range
MoCA 1.1 can use 500-1500 MHz range

However many cable companies now utilize bandwidth up to 1000 MHz range so I think all consumer MoCA adapters default to channels > 1000 MHz. So depending on the frequency dropoff beyond 1GHz of the splitter it could cause problems. Safer to use 2 GHz splitters to be sure the signals are not excessively attenuated.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Tivo's having fun lately. 

Ehh... not quite getting the embedded youtube link to work. But here it is:


----------



## aaronwt

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo's having fun lately.
> 
> Ehh... not quite getting the embedded youtube link to work. But here it is:


 That was cute.


----------



## Aero 1

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo's having fun lately.
> 
> Ehh... not quite getting the embedded youtube link to work. But here it is:


looks like they didnt high five the guy in charge of finishing the HD gui.


----------



## sbiller

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo's having fun lately.
> 
> Ehh... not quite getting the embedded youtube link to work. But here it is:


Just use media and /media enclosing the full YouTube link. The tags are enclosed in [].


----------



## DCIFRTHS

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo's having fun lately.
> 
> Ehh... not quite getting the embedded youtube link to work. But here it is:


Cute, and good to see they're having fun.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Aero 1 said:


> looks like they didnt high five the guy in charge of finishing the HD gui.


Awesome comment


----------



## Bryan Lyle

Could they not get that guy at the :50 mark a bigger monitor?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Bryan Lyle said:


> Could they not get that guy at the :50 mark a bigger monitor?


No wonder they have to read the reviews in a 48-point font. 

Well good for them. The Roamio is baller. They should be enjoying the moment. And according to a Margret tweet, every employee got a freebie.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

BigJimOutlaw said:


> No wonder they have to read the reviews in a 48-point font.
> 
> Well good for them. The Roamio is baller. They should be enjoying the moment. And according to a Margret tweet, every employee got a freebie.


Cool. I hope it was the Pro model.


----------



## Airkat

Thanks for the feedback all. I'll watch this one from the sidelines, but for now, 2 Premieres and a roku should do the trick.


----------



## Fofer

Bryan Lyle said:


> Could they not get that guy at the :50 mark a bigger monitor?


I enjoyed seeing Margret Schmidt in her cubicle at the end of that. :up:

http://margretschmidt.com/Home/Margret_Schmidt_Chief_Design_Officer_TiVo.html

https://twitter.com/tivodesign


----------

