# Netflix to Offer Online Movie Viewing



## dzirpolo (Oct 14, 2001)

I just recieved this news update about Netflix online movies.

Netflix Offers Subscribers the Option of Instantly Watching Movies on Their PCs

And from the New York Times.

Netflix to Deliver Movies to the PC 

This Could be interesting.

D


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Interesting. But you'd think if the Netflix/TiVo deal were still in place then the press release would have at least a little blurb about TiVo.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

"In addition, content is being provided by A&E Television Networks, Anime Network, Allumination FilmWorks, BBC Worldwide, Cinema Libre Studios, Egami Media, Film Movement, Hart Sharp Video, The Independent Film Channel, Magnolia Pictures, New Video Group, New Yorker Films, Palm Pictures, Seventh Art , Silvernitrate Entertainment, Starz Digital, ThinkFilm, Video Action Sports, WMG Productions and Wolfe Video, among others. "

nice list of content providers, sure would be nice to hear about delivery to a TiVo near me.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

How exciting. I can stream movies to my PC without downloading. Wow, this will work great in my living room.


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

I would be pleasantly surprised if this happened with TiVo, but I doubt it will come to play.

TiVo has a big relationship with Comcast, and is trying to get other Cable Companies. Their strategy is working with Cable. The satellite companies had their chance, and they've chosen their own paths (with directv buying some time with the 3yr extension of services for existing units until their platform is more mature and more rolled out). 

With the release of an OTA/cable only S3 box, and the direction of their HD platforms is going towards OCAP, cable based java oriented presentation platform for cable settop boxes (search on it this forum and on the net), cable is their technical direction too.

Their previous Netflix announcement was all based on a former strategy lead by Ramsey, one of TiVo's founders and first CEO....who also happened to sit on the Netflix board at the same time (don't know if he currently does or not).

TiVo's board brought in a new CEO, they then (also immediately) got a new agreement with Comcast. Speculation has lead that that one of the base issues was TiVo wanting to play in the ondemand market. I would not be surprised if there are aspects of the TiVo/Comcast contract that limit or restrict TiVo from going into this direction.

Offering an ondemand movie service would go directly in the face of the relationships they are trying to build with the cable industry. 

Personally, I think TiVo should provide ondemand movies but do it in a way that allows them to share some of the revenue with the cable provider, etc. that is used by the end customer (based on zip code and channel lineup). This could help maintain the relationship with the cable companies.

The only other path that TiVo has to go is IPTV, but with the cable and telephone companies controlling the last mile to the home, that would be an ackward position for a company that is trying to get profitable.


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

rainwater said:


> How exciting. I can stream movies to my PC without downloading. Wow, this will work great in my living room.


Nothing says "quality family time" more than everyone huddled around the PC!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bootedbear said:


> Nothing says "quality family time" more than everyone huddled around the PC!


Uhm, you have heard of an HTPC, right? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Htpc

Most of them look like a stereo component.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Uhm, you have heard of an HTPC, right?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Htpc
> 
> Most of them look like a stereo component.


So I can watch streaming movies from the internet through netflix if I build a HTPC running Windows? Wow, that will work great considering the netflix videos play in your browser. Man, the quality will rock!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

d_anders said:


> Their previous Netflix announcement was all based on a former strategy lead by Ramsey, one of TiVo's founders and first CEO....who also happened to sit on the Netflix board at the same time (don't know if he currently does or not).
> 
> TiVo's board brought in a new CEO, they then (also immediately) got a new agreement with Comcast. Speculation has lead that that one of the base issues was TiVo wanting to play in the ondemand market. I would not be surprised if there are aspects of the TiVo/Comcast contract that limit or restrict TiVo from going into this direction.
> 
> Offering an ondemand movie service would go directly in the face of the relationships they are trying to build with the cable industry.


True that it was ramsey heading the old dealings, among them the Netflix partnership. It also appears that netflix was looking at many avenues into the home, TiVo just being one of them and certainly not the largest audience, just an easy pipeline for Netflix to the TV itself. This PC download is certianly not the last word from Netflix but just the trial toe in the water. Getting easily to the TV is the holy grail for all downlaod/streaming services.

I highly doubt the comcast deal had any such restrictions. they are not germaine to the deal at hand between comcast and TiVo. Their would be little incentive for either party to haggfle over such things at this point in the game.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

You don't need a HTPC -- a D-Link HIGH-DEF MEDIA PLAYER-802.11G USB HDMI VIIV is $172 at Amazon.com.

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/PopupProductDetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=A0781172&price=181

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=29777500&search=DSM-510


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bilbo said:


> You don't need a HTPC -- a D-Link HIGH-DEF MEDIA PLAYER-802.11G USB HDMI VIIV is $172 at Amazon.com.
> 
> http://accessories.dell.com/sna/PopupProductDetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=A0781172&price=181
> 
> http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=29777500&search=DSM-510


So it can stream from Netflix's proprietary web browser plugin that runs in IE?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> So I can watch streaming movies from the internet through netflix if I build a HTPC running Windows? Wow, that will work great considering the netflix videos play in your browser. Man, the quality will rock!


If you build one or if you already have one. What does a web browser have to do with anything?? The bandwidth will mandate the quality, not the media player. IE will go full screen, and according to the article they support up to DVD quality if you have 3 megabit connection... My cable modem does 7-10 megabit currently.



> In all, the instant watching feature requires only Internet connectivity with a minimum of one megabit per second of bandwidth. The more bandwidth a consumer has, the higher quality the video displayed, ranging from the quality of current Netflix previews to DVD quality with a three-megabit-per-second connection.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

If this was on the TiVo, I'd be interested, if the cost was low. As it is... eh, not so much.


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Uhm, you have heard of an HTPC, right?


Which resides in what, 0.0000001% of households?

Non-starter.

Even *if* the IE plugin would allow using it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> What does a web browser have to do with anything??


The title of this thread is called "Netflix to Offer Online Movie", right? So this implies we are talking about Netflix. Well, the Netflix streaming services are done through a plugin in your browser. You play the file from your browser, thus the reason we are talking about a web browser.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

i have to imagine i can use the s-video output on my laptop to play the netflix movies on my tv (either going directly to my tv or through my receiver). i might not have true surround sound (looks like i've only got a headphone audio out), but it would be a quick and dirty fix for me without any additional costs. i gotta imagine a lot of people have laptops on 802.11b/g networks that also have s-video outputs, especially those who are "savvy" enough to also be netflix customers.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

So on the audio side, are we talking stereo here, not Dolby 5.1, like you normally get on a DVD? Or have they said? The Dolby 5.1 (or DTS) sound is one of the main reasons I get DVDs.


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## TromboneKenny (Mar 28, 2003)

The neatest part about this streaming online movie experience is that it's bundled with the Netflix package. I don't have to buy it to try it (I just have to wait until I'm included in their roll out.) I don't anticipate using it that much, but it's FREE and gets Netflix into the online content distribution arena. I won't be satisfied until I get high quality video and Dolby sound to my home entertainment center (or cachable copies for the laptop road warrior) but it's nice to see the Netflix online content ball start rolling.

It also gives TiVo and CableLabs time to figure out that whole digital content to the S3 issue.  And me time to run the Ethernet under the crawl space.


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## KenW (Mar 19, 2001)

The question is how can I get it? They are doing random rollout from now until June. How do I get it now?!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TromboneKenny said:


> The neatest part about this streaming online movie experience is that it's bundled with the Netflix package.


Yes, that's incredibly awesome... but it doesn't work on a Mac.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

actually this would be pretty nice while I'm on the road.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> The title of this thread is called "Netflix to Offer Online Movie", right? So this implies we are talking about Netflix. Well, the Netflix streaming services are done through a plugin in your browser. You play the file from your browser, thus the reason we are talking about a web browser.


What I meant was, what is WRONG with playing it in a web browser?? Your web browser has a full screen mode...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> What I meant was, what is WRONG with playing it in a web browser?? Your web browser has a full screen mode...


Because I watch movies in front of my big TV w/ my family. Not in front of my desktop or laptop.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

My laptop has an S-Video output, so anyhing I can stream I can view on my TV. There's surprisingly little difference between SD broadcast and high-quality streaming video nowadays.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> My laptop has an S-Video output, so anyhing I can stream I can view on my TV. There's surprisingly little difference between SD broadcast and high-quality streaming video nowadays.


But we are talking about DVDs. Sure, the occasional watching of some type of show/movie with poor streaming quality might be ok. But this is not going to be a big deal until you can get high quality content to your TV easily.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Because I watch movies in front of my big TV w/ my family. Not in front of my desktop or laptop.


Ok.... 

Let's try this again.

You have a HTPC, hooked up to your big TV. Your web browser is in full screen mode playing a DVD quality movie. What is the problem?


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Uhm, you have heard of an HTPC, right?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Htpc
> 
> Most of them look like a stereo component.


The 3000 people that own HTPC's will be in hog heaven.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Another Windows IE 6+ only internet video product. Faaantastic!!


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

gtrogue said:


> The 3000 people that own HTPC's will be in hog heaven.


My point exactly. I have nothing against this idea, but it will be a niche product for a niche of a niche market.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> You have a HTPC, hooked up to your big TV. Your web browser is in full screen mode playing a DVD quality movie. What is the problem?


The video is hooked up to your TV. Is it Dolby 5.1 audio into your A/V box? (I know an HTPC can in general deal with 5.1, but I was wondering specifically about this NetFlix offering.)


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

bilbo said:


> i have to imagine i can use the s-video output on my laptop to play the netflix movies on my tv (either going directly to my tv or through my receiver). i might not have true surround sound (looks like i've only got a headphone audio out), but it would be a quick and dirty fix for me without any additional costs. i gotta imagine a lot of people have laptops on 802.11b/g networks that also have s-video outputs, especially those who are "savvy" enough to also be netflix customers.


it seems like the stream could be sent directly to the tivo (and recorded). personally, i could take the single headphone audio and convert it to red and white composite audio to go into my tivo. tivo recording could then be sent to laptop (and viewed where you don't have internet access for those who would want that). seems like a pain to me, but i bet someone will try it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bilbo said:


> it seems like the stream could be sent directly to the tivo (and recorded). personally, i could take the single headphone audio and convert it to red and white composite audio to go into my tivo. tivo recording could then be sent to laptop (and viewed where you don't have internet access for those who would want that). seems like a pain to me, but i bet someone will try it.


Or they could just wait another day for the actual DVD 

Frankly, until they offer DVD like quality with an easy way to download to a device in your living room, I'm not going to get excited. I have a Netflix subscription and just can't imagine using this for anything other than watching a few minutes of a movie to see if I should put it in my queue.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

gtrogue said:


> The 3000 people that own HTPC's will be in hog heaven.


somehat agree- but MS is saying that somethin like 30 MILLION media center OS PC's have been sold. So I'm guessing that Netflix is hoping more then 3,000 of those hook their laptop to the RGB port on their new digital tv's and they get some use of it.

BTW- that blurb I saw (I think at AVS) seemed to imply that windows media center COMES with a remote. Is that true by default?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> ... I have a Netflix subscription and just can't imagine using this for anything other than watching a few minutes of a movie to see if I should put it in my queue.


that's a great idea for real world use actually- thanks for the idea!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bootedbear said:


> My point exactly. I have nothing against this idea, but it will be a niche product for a niche of a niche market.


I agree...

There is also a small market for business travelers who don't want to pay $8 to watch a movie on a 20" TV in their hotel and have a nice widescreen laptop with broadband sitting right there...


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## ferrous (Oct 31, 2005)

I understand that the service will reach more folks sooner via Windows Media Center but I hope that they will quickly expand that offering to support:

- TiVo
- OS X
- AppleTV
- MythTV

Just putting in my vote.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> somehat agree- but MS is saying that somethin like 30 MILLION media center OS PC's have been sold.


How many of the "Media Center PCs" are used as a primary desktop and how many are hooked up to people's entertainment center? I'm willing to bet a very small percentage of these computers are used as a real media center. I know the percentage is small because just look at how many of the Media Center PCs are actually in form factors that will even fit into a entertainment center.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> How many of the "Media Center PCs" are used as a primary desktop and how many are hooked up to people's entertainment center? I'm willing to bet a very small percentage of these computers are used as a real media center. I know the percentage is small because just look at how many of the Media Center PCs are actually in form factors that will even fit into a entertainment center.


I'd doubt the number that are permentaly hooked to TV's (AKA HTPC's) is much higher then the 3,000 number tossed out above. MS seems to want to put media center OS on anything they can (probably they charge less for than then normal XP?)

But even if 1% of the people with a media center OS PC hook it to their tv to try it out thats 300, 000. If it's just 1/100th of a percent that matches the 3,000 that are full time HTPC.s That's all I was saying- some people might try it out-that's all.


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

Yep places like dell offer XP MCE as a free upgrade. So the install base, and usage base are totally different numbers.

That said, I bet there are more than 3,000 MCE PC's that are setup as desktops, and which are networked and stream to linksys, dlink, netgear, and xbox media center extenders that *are* connected to home theaters.

-Kyle


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## apocamphoric (Jan 13, 2007)

Cool post . Thanks for the info


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## KenW (Mar 19, 2001)

I have s-video out on my laptop, and I use it to watch movies in my hotel room all of the time. Vongo has been my favorite lately.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

kjmcdonald said:


> That said, I bet there are more than 3,000 MCE PC's that are setup as desktops, and which are networked and stream to linksys, dlink, netgear, and xbox media center extenders that *are* connected to home theaters.
> 
> -Kyle


So how would those media extenders work with this browser based plugin?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

From my understanding, the Watch Now feature isn't going to cost any extra money. You'll still get your DVDs in the mail. BUT, if you choose to, you can stream a certain amount of hours of video per month (depending on your membership) So, you can either take advantage of it or not. They aren't taking physical DVDs away.

Personally, I like this idea. I try to rent tv series from Netflix but with most series having at least 6 DVDs in the set (and sharing our 3 rentals per month with my husband and kids) it can take a while to get a whole series. I would like to utilize the Watch Now feature for TV shows so I can see a series faster. I don't have a problem watching tv shows on my laptop.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Anybody feel like publicly ribbing TiVo for not having online movie downloads? Then Digg this story up:

http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Netflix_TiVo_Team_Up_on_Broadband_Movie_Delivery_by_2005


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> Anybody feel like publicly ribbing TiVo for not having online movie downloads? Then Digg this story up:
> 
> http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Netflix_TiVo_Team_Up_on_Broadband_Movie_Delivery_by_2005


I see that more (and appropriately) a rib at Netflix for not offering it through the best possible option - TiVo


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ashu said:


> I see that more (and appropriately) a rib at Netflix for not offering it through the best possible option - TiVo


My understanding is that Neflex wanted a better resolution solution for a downloaded movie, 5.1 sound and a 16/9 picture that the TiVo series 2 can't do.

Edit

I know that the Series 3 could do this but the download market of people who own Series 3 is too small now to matter, and to spend the money for a series 3 for just Netflex downloading is nuts. I think they will have an inexpensive box for just downloading and storing DVD quality movies.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lessd said:


> My understanding is that Neflex wanted a better resolution solution for a downloaded movie, 5.1 sound and a 16/9 picture that the TiVo series 2 can't do.


but the s3 sure can.....


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

10 cents says Netflix downloads are at or below TiVoCast quality anyway.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> 10 cents says Netflix downloads are at or below TiVoCast quality anyway.


Netflix doesn't download, it only streams. So the quality will never be even close to DVD quality.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Netflix doesn't download, it only streams. So the quality will never be even close to DVD quality.


Netflix claims it IS DVD quality, with a 3 mb internet connection. (which bandwidth wise, seems reasonable to assume you could do a 480p stream with that kind of bandwidth.)

Why do you think netflix is lieing? What is your source?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> Netflix claims it IS DVD quality, with a 3 mb internet connection. (which bandwidth wise, seems reasonable to assume you could do a 480p stream with that kind of bandwidth.)
> 
> Why do you think netflix is lieing? What is your source?


Are they it using 16/9 DVD format and 5.1 sound ?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I've tried it, and even with a 8Mbps (downstream) internet connection (with Comcast's Powerboost often pushing it well over 15-20Mbps), and excellent ping times to 'net backbones, Netflix servers can't feed me anything but Basic (750 Kbps) quality. Which is quite awful when viewed fullscreen on a 1280x1024 LCD, let alone my 1920x1080 42" LCD HDTV. And only 2.0 sound.

It's possible they're pushing to everyone at only Basic while they get this ramped up and figure out their bandwidth requirements & usage patterns. I've heard of no one yet that is getting anything better than Medium!

For now, this remains quite infeasible as a movie watching method, but excellent as a preview method to determine whether a recommended movie is worth aadding to the DVD mail queue for me


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## weymo (Jan 26, 2003)

I am completely disappointed that TiVo (Linux) isn't supported for the rollout. Who says the S2 can't handle 16:9? That's ridiculous. And TiVoCast quality is fine for "free." I agree that TV show DVD's is where I'll start. They eat up the queue.
Using the laptop to stream through my living room equipment is a pain...especially without a remote. Hooking it up to record it to the TiVo...nah...a bother.
Slingbox it?
I don't know...something in the press release made me think that they really want end-to-end control of the content....and where it will end up.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
You don't need a HTPC -- a D-Link HIGH-DEF MEDIA PLAYER-802.11G USB HDMI VIIV is $172 at Amazon.com.

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/Pop...81172&price=181

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_...&search=DSM-510



rainwater said:


> So it can stream from Netflix's proprietary web browser plugin that runs in IE?


the netgear eva8000 that was announced at ces looks a lot better than the d-link hd media player i mentioned earlier, but it is $350 and only has 802.11g. it plays youtube and bittorrents and h.264 and has flac support. appletv is 802.11n and plays not much other than itunes files and h.264. would be nice to know if this cool little toy might eventually work with netflix (of course i could say the same thing of my tivo series 3).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

weymo said:


> I am completely disappointed that TiVo (Linux) isn't supported for the rollout. Who says the S2 can't handle 16:9? That's ridiculous. And TiVoCast quality is fine for "free." I agree that TV show DVD's is where I'll start. They eat up the queue.
> Using the laptop to stream through my living room equipment is a pain...especially without a remote. Hooking it up to record it to the TiVo...nah...a bother.
> Slingbox it?
> I don't know...something in the press release made me think that they really want end-to-end control of the content....and where it will end up.


Series 2 can't handle 16/9 if for no other reason than composite output can't handle 16/9 with full DVD resolution, the Humax DVD TiVo has component outputs but only for DVD viewing I don't think you can record at 16/9 on the hard drive on any Series 2. Series 3 is a totally different story but the current number of people that have Series 3 is tiny compared to the Series 2 and at this time it would not be a good business to have a download system that only worked on a Series 3.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lessd said:


> Series 2 can't handle 16/9 if for no other reason than composite output can't handle 16/9 with full DVD resolution, the Humax DVD TiVo has component outputs but only for DVD viewing I don't think you can record at 16/9 on the hard drive on any Series 2. Series 3 is a totally different story but the current number of people that have Series 3 is tiny compared to the Series 2 and at this time it would not be a good business to have a download system that only worked on a Series 3.


you can record 16:9 to your hearts content on a tivo. I do it to record HD on my S2- but to play back I have to zoom the TV to get it to fill the screen. So you can record 16:9 all you want.

I'm not really sure how to get 16:9 back out (since i use my TV to fix it-LOL) - but i think there's an MPEG2 setting that they use for anamorphic DVD's to get 16:9 to get sent to 16:9 tv's. I'm not posiitve but I think that works on any connection that isn't rf. For example I can connect my kids wii to my 16:9 HDTV via composite and tell the wii IU have 16:9 and it will fill the screen.

But to be honest I think the whole theory that netflix wanted only 16:9 is a little suspect. How many computers are connected to 16:9 output devices anyway that this point? I dont think it's a huge percentage.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

lessd said:


> Series 2 can't handle 16/9 if for no other reason than composite output can't handle 16/9 with full DVD resolution, the Humax DVD TiVo has component outputs but only for DVD viewing I don't think you can record at 16/9 on the hard drive on any Series 2. Series 3 is a totally different story but the current number of people that have Series 3 is tiny compared to the Series 2 and at this time it would not be a good business to have a download system that only worked on a Series 3.


WHAT???  I'm looking at a DVD player that plays widescreen DVD's just fine at 480i on a widescreen tv...

What is "full dvd resolution"? DVD's are 480i or 480p with a progressive scan player. But what does that have to do with widescreen?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> WHAT???  I'm looking at a DVD player that plays widescreen DVD's just fine at 480i on a widescreen tv...
> 
> What is "full dvd resolution"? DVD's are 480i or 480p with a progressive scan player. But what does that have to do with widescreen?


Most DVD players will give you a real 16/9 without stretching out the picture by setting the DVD player for 16/9. That will give you about 30% more resolution then the 4/3 picture. The lines stay the same 480 but the horizontal resolution goes up from 640 pixels to 853 pixels (Most DVDs are mastered at 480 X 853). TiVo Series 2 can not record 480 by 853 it can only record 480 X 640, some TVs can fake it but the basic resolution is still 480 X 640. Using the component (or HDMI) output any good DVD player set up for 16/9 will give your HDTV 480 X 853. The TV can fill that out to 720 x 1280 to fill the screen but if the TV does the same thing for a 480 X 640 the picture does not have the correct proportion and the resolution is not as good. Most people use the stretch mode on their HDTV for SD TV so they do not see the black bars on the left and right sides of the TV but doing that makes people (on TV) look fat and circles are oblong. (or you cut off the top and bottom of the picture)

Unless the downloaded movie is sent at 480 X 853 with 5.1 sound it will not match the resolution of the original DVD. You can't send the TiVo series 2 480 x 853 and TiVo series 2 can't take 5.1 sound so a Series 2 can't duplicate an original DVD. A series 3 can but there are too few Series 3 out there to design a download at 480 X 853 just for a Series 3.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

lessd said:


> Most DVD players will give you a real 16/9 without stretching out the picture by setting the DVD player for 16/9. That will give you about 30% more resolution then the 4/3 picture. The lines stay the same 480 but the horizontal resolution goes up from 640 pixels to 853 pixels (Most DVDs are mastered at 480 X 853). TiVo Series 2 can not record 480 by 853 it can only record 480 X 640, some TVs can fake it but the basic resolution is still 480 X 640. Using the component (or HDMI) output any good DVD player set up for 16/9 will give your HDTV 480 X 853. The TV can fill that out to 720 x 1280 to fill the screen but if the TV does the same thing for a 480 X 640 the picture does not have the correct proportion and the resolution is not as good. Most people use the stretch mode on their HDTV for SD TV so they do not see the black bars on the left and right sides of the TV but doing that makes people (on TV) look fat and circles are oblong. (or you cut off the top and bottom of the picture)
> 
> Unless the downloaded movie is sent at 480 X 853 with 5.1 sound it will not match the resolution of the original DVD. You can't send the TiVo series 2 480 x 853 and TiVo series 2 can't take 5.1 sound so a Series 2 can't duplicate an original DVD. A series 3 can but there are too few Series 3 out there to design a download at 480 X 853 just for a Series 3.


Ok, but your statement was "Series 2 can't handle 16/9 if for no other reason than composite output can't handle 16/9 with full DVD resolution" which is not true.

Secondly, the Series2 CAN and DOES record 16x9. I have recorded it from an ATSC tuner and played it back in widescreen. Any movie implications could certainly be addressed in software.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lessd said:


> ...
> 
> Unless the downloaded movie is sent at 480 X 853 with 5.1 sound it will not match the resolution of the original DVD. You can't send the TiVo series 2 480 x 853 and TiVo series 2 can't take 5.1 sound so a Series 2 can't duplicate an original DVD. A series 3 can but there are too few Series 3 out there to design a download at 480 X 853 just for a Series 3.


the 5.1 seems to be a no brainer- just cant.

But do we KNOW for sure that the tivo can't playback 480x853? I'm not really all that into hacking but from what i glance by the MPEG decoder in the tivo's is pretty rubust and the hackers throw all sorts of stuff at it and it functions. But more telling- dont the DVD units have essentially the same chips and they play back dvds?

Just trying to understand with my limited knowledge. Thanks for the information.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> Ok, but your statement was "Series 2 can't handle 16/9 if for no other reason than composite output can't handle 16/9 with full DVD resolution" which is not true.
> 
> Secondly, the Series2 CAN and DOES record 16x9. I have recorded it from an ATSC tuner and played it back in widescreen. Any movie implications could certainly be addressed in software.


I willing to learn, can you give me any example of anything that outputs a TV picture at 480 X 853 in the composite cables or any TV that take the type of signal on the composite input.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Read here

http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2007/01/the_netflix_ins.html

tips for how to get in early for the movie watching, as they are only slowly rolling it out


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I've watched a little bit of a few movies through the Watch Now feature. So far, the quality is OK for streaming. But its not even close to DVD or a acceptable quality for watching movies. I thought I would use this to preview what I might want to put in my queue, but the selection is so small, you can't even do that yet.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Read here
> 
> http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2007/01/the_netflix_ins.html
> 
> tips for how to get in early for the movie watching, as they are only slowly rolling it out


Getting DVD quality or HD downloads to a PC is not that hard its getting it directly (not using a PC) to a HDTV that not so simple. My point is that you can't use a Series 2 to download DVD quality movies (480 X 853), you could use a Series 3 but there are too few of them for a successful movie download market now.

I not saying that a hardware hack is not possible to record at 480 X 853 on a Series 2, but impractical for the normal TiVo user. I do not think you could record 480 x 853 using just a software hack as I think you need component video outputs for that type of resolution. I know that the Humax DVD TiVos have component video outputs but they seem to work (at 480 X 853) only when playing a commercial DVD.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

lessd said:


> Getting DVD quality or HD downloads to a PC is not that hard its getting it directly (not using a PC) to a HDTV that not so simple. My point is that you can't use a Series 2 to download DVD quality movies (480 X 853), you could use a Series 3 but there are too few of them for a successful movie download market now.


ummm ok, not sure why you responded to my post w/ that, i don't see the connection on the tips to get it earlier?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> ummm ok, not sure why you responded to my post w/ that, i don't see the connection on the tips to get it earlier?


Sorry as I thought you were referring to getting a download DVD quality movie on a HDTV that was talk about on an early post.

What is the topic here


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

lessd said:


> Sorry as I thought you were referring to getting a download DVD quality movie on a HDTV that was talk about on an early post.
> 
> What is the topic here


it's watching streaming movies on netflix as part of your service from them 

i guess the only way to currently get them on your tv is to put your pc on the tv and watch it that way, but that has to look horrible blown up


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> it's watching streaming movies on netflix as part of your service from them
> 
> i guess the only way to currently get them on your tv is to put your pc on the tv and watch it that way, but that has to look horrible blown up


It DOES look horrible, blown up.

The Windows media encapsulated full screen playback is 4:3 for both movies I tried so far, and FFDShow can't seem to intercept the playback stream and smooth/upscale etc to my desired 1920x1080 resolution.

And Netflix insists my 8MBPS down (<20 ms ping to backbones) connection is only capable of Basic, so it looked absolutely AWFUL on my 1080P HDTV (used as a dual monitor setup with my PC).


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

lessd said:


> I willing to learn, can you give me any example of anything that outputs a TV picture at 480 X 853 in the composite cables or any TV that take the type of signal on the composite input.


The resolution of an NTSC DVD is 720x480 and 16x9 is achieved by my TV stretching the pixels to 853x480. I can put my TV into 4X3 mode and if my DVD is in "Widescreen Mode" everything will be squashed.

If you were to connect you DVD player that was set to 16x9 to your TiVo and record a movie with your TiVo (barring the obvious copy protection problems), your TiVo would record a squashed version (when looking at it on a 4x3 set). Everything would be narrow. When I hit the Aspect Ratio button on my TV, it would stretch the image to the correct widescreen ratio.

But yes, to answer your question, I can certainly watch 16x9 DVD's on my TV no problem with Svideo or composite. Obviously component output looks better (due to it being 480p vs. 480i, and a higher quality output...)


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

ashu said:


> It DOES look horrible, blown up.
> 
> The Windows media encapsulated full screen playback is 4:3 for both movies I tried so far, and FFDShow can't seem to intercept the playback stream and smooth/upscale etc to my desired 1920x1080 resolution.
> 
> And Netflix insists my 8MBPS down (<20 ms ping to backbones) connection is only capable of Basic, so it looked absolutely AWFUL on my 1080P HDTV (used as a dual monitor setup with my PC).


i don't currently have netflix, but they FORCE you to a certain quality based on what they detect?

what if i want higher quality and will wait longer for it to buffer up?

that's ridiculous!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> i don't currently have netflix, but they FORCE you to a certain quality based on what they detect?
> 
> what if i want higher quality and will wait longer for it to buffer up?
> 
> that's ridiculous!


Well, it tells your speed before you watch a movie. Mine is always at the lowest level which isn't true, but I think the issue is there side is slow. Anyways, the level it chooses shows you video at the following rate:

High 1.6 to 2.2+ Mbps 
Good 1.0 Mbps 
Basic 500 Kbps


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

rainwater said:


> Well, it tells your speed before you watch a movie. Mine is always at the lowest level which isn't true, but I think the issue is there side is slow. Anyways, the level it chooses shows you video at the following rate:
> 
> High 1.6 to 2.2+ Mbps
> Good 1.0 Mbps
> Basic 500 Kbps


that's crappy, i have somewhat slow dsl, but if i had it i'd have no problem waiting a while for it to load up for the HIGH quality.

well if i come back to netflix, this won't be why at ALL


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Umm, 'waiting for it to buffer' may not be possible, because buffering is an ongoing process. Very unlikely they'd want to push nigh the entire movie at a high quality (to ensure no stuttering occurs), only to have you cancel your viewing, 'waste' the buffer and go on to do something else!

If they claim your system/connection can only accept a slower/low bitrate stream, even if this is ONLY because their servers are overloaded and can't push data any faster, that IS what you'd be stuck with until they upgrade (their bandwidth/servers and/or their detection mechanism!)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> The resolution of an NTSC DVD is 720x480 and 16x9 is achieved by my TV stretching the pixels to 853x480. I can put my TV into 4X3 mode and if my DVD is in "Widescreen Mode" everything will be squashed.
> 
> If you were to connect you DVD player that was set to 16x9 to your TiVo and record a movie with your TiVo (barring the obvious copy protection problems), your TiVo would record a squashed version (when looking at it on a 4x3 set). Everything would be narrow. When I hit the Aspect Ratio button on my TV, it would stretch the image to the correct widescreen ratio.
> 
> But yes, to answer your question, I can certainly watch 16x9 DVD's on my TV no problem with Svideo or composite. Obviously component output looks better (due to it being 480p vs. 480i, and a higher quality output...)


But you do not get the horizontal resolution that you would get with an original DVD, and most good HDTV have a better de-interlacer then the DVD players have so you will get a better picture by keeping the DVD output on 480I and let the TV change it to P . My HDTV manual tells me to connect a DVD player to SD Component input and set the DVD player for 16/9 and 480I. I get a great picture that way. For an very high grade DVD player (mine is not) and not so high grade HDTV setting the DVD player for 480P may give you a better picture.


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## kosherbacon (Sep 12, 2005)

Who cares how you connect it? I don't want anything that is 'near DVD' quality on my fancy new HDTV. Give me downloadable Hi Def playable through Tivo (S3, of course) at best, playable over my network or from my laptop via DVI to my TV at worst.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

kosherbacon said:


> Who cares how you connect it? I don't want anything that is 'near DVD' quality on my fancy new HDTV. Give me downloadable Hi Def playable through Tivo (S3, of course) at best, playable over my network or from my laptop via DVI to my TV at worst.


Long as you're willing to pay for all that bandwidth, and if there are enough like you, I'm sure some company will develop the tech and acquiesce 

Realistically, to quote a certain NFL coach, the Netflix model now is what we knew they would release. I would not have expected more at this stage, but yes - that shouldn't stop us from suggestiing improvements and discussing our wishlist of features/capabilities


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

kosherbacon said:


> Who cares how you connect it? I don't want anything that is 'near DVD' quality on my fancy new HDTV. Give me downloadable Hi Def playable through Tivo (S3, of course) at best, playable over my network or from my laptop via DVI to my TV at worst.


WHAT?? 

Firsst, the movie companies would NEVER allow it! Second a HD movie is 15-25 GIGABYTES!! Besides the fact that even with 10 MEGABIT Internet it would take five hours to download, the Internet connection Netflix would have to maintain would be RIDICULOUS!


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> WHAT??
> 
> Firsst, the movie companies would NEVER allow it! Second a HD movie is 15-25 GIGABYTES!! Besides the fact that even with 10 MEGABIT Internet it would take five hours to download, the Internet connection Netflix would have to maintain would be RIDICULOUS!


not our problem to figure out their bandwidth. 

But seriously there's company's that do that- MS is making vista availible for download- that's no joke bandwidth.

Moviebeam is working on it. And plans to offer HD movies from 2 studios downloaded to their boxes soon.

So the studios will allow it under the right conditions. It's a matter of Tivo or netflix or whoever showing that their platform is secure. Evidently some of the studios think that moviebeam is secure enough. I think with vista and it's DRM galore more and more people will be getting into the game via the PC route.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

netflix could do it, but would have to charge accordingly


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> WHAT??
> 
> Firsst, the movie companies would NEVER allow it! Second a HD movie is 15-25 GIGABYTES!! Besides the fact that even with 10 MEGABIT Internet it would take five hours to download, the Internet connection Netflix would have to maintain would be RIDICULOUS!


HD is only 15-25 GB using the current broadcasting standards. Since computers aren't bound by those, someone can surely use different compression and delivery methods to allow HD streaming.

And you write "10 MEGABIT" as if that is some impossibly large number. Even though the US generally is a little behind some other countries (my family in Sweden has 100 Mbit ), 10 Mbit is surely within reach for many, if not now, then at least shortly.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

what size would an MPEG4 HD file that can play back in the S3 be (hypothetical 2 hour movie)?

I have a 7 megawhatever line from my cable company (that's the basic speed- I can upgrade to 12 megawhatevers if i needed to ) So how long would that take to download said file.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> netflix could do it, but would have to charge accordingly


I'd pay 20 bucks a month for just an HD download service (if they threw in the mail in dvd's that would be a bonus) for my S3 if it had a decent catalog. They could limit my access- do something like they do with the dvd's- make me watch one then ask for another (loose my replacement "in the mail" for a couple days like they do with high volume DVD users would be fine- just let me set and forget my que on the tivo and I'd be happy) I'd expect 4-6 movies a month for my 20 bucks.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> what size would an MPEG4 HD file that can play back in the S3 be (hypothetical 2 hour movie)?
> 
> I have a 7 megawhatever line from my cable company (that's the basic speed- I can upgrade to 12 megawhatevers if i needed to ) So how long would that take to download said file.


This is from memory and rough calculations: the file size could probably be around 8 GB at full HD resolution with 6 channels of lower bit-rate (384 kbps) sound. If you got 700 kb/sec, you'd come in at just over 3 hours or so download time. So you still couldn't quote do real-time without some buffering first, but not too far from it. And if you didn't need full 1920*1080 resolution, but instead did it in 1280*720 for example, it would obviously be less size and time.

Maybe someone else can verify those numbers.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

A single-layer DVD-R holds 4.8 GB, and that holds about an hour of SD unless you start doing some good compression. How does 2 hours of HD get into 8 GB?


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## smoknyreyz (Jan 5, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> WHAT??
> 
> Firsst, the movie companies would NEVER allow it! Second a HD movie is 15-25 GIGABYTES!! Besides the fact that even with 10 MEGABIT Internet it would take five hours to download, the Internet connection Netflix would have to maintain would be RIDICULOUS!


Ummmm.....I have an XBOX 360 and download HD movies all the time for viewing on my tv - the HD versions of the movies are only around 5 or 6gb while the standard versions of the same movies are usually a little over 1gb


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

ummm for most regular dvd's, JUST the movie file is 4 gig (give or take a few 100 meg) so if you are getting a HD movie at 5-6 gig, that can't be FULL quality there

anything under at most 3.5 gig for a REGULAR dvd, has to be compressed


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> A single-layer DVD-R holds 4.8 GB, and that holds about an hour of SD unless you start doing some good compression. How does 2 hours of HD get into 8 GB?


DVD is MPEG-2, which takes up more space than MPEG-4.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> ummm for most regular dvd's, JUST the movie file is 4 gig (give or take a few 100 meg) so if you are getting a HD movie at 5-6 gig, that can't be FULL quality there
> 
> anything under at most 3.5 gig for a REGULAR dvd, has to be compressed


yes, movie download/streams will be compressed. Sat and cable companies already do some of this now to save bandwidth on their systems as well. There is actually little true HD as it needs to start with the actual filming and continue from there. Basically movies on HD or Blu-ray at the moment. Now a compressed HD is still better looking than SD and even betetr than DVD if the source is good to begin with.

Many people also complained about the loss of audio during MP3 compression and I could certainly hear the difference and sharp practiced eyes will also be able to see the compression used on movie downloads/streams but that wont stop it as long as the convenience factor is there such as is for small portable music players.

and of course the first forays into this field will be considered crude in a few years. Why is everyone expecting pristine viewing and sound right off the bat. Heck even 1st gen DVD players are considered archaic by today's standards.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

pdhenry said:


> A single-layer DVD-R holds 4.8 GB, and that holds about an hour of SD unless you start doing some good compression. How does 2 hours of HD get into 8 GB?


Dual layer DVD Burners sell for under $50. If the above statements are correct regarding MPEG4, you could fit about 2 hours into an 8.5 Gig DVD.

Double sided would give you 17 Gigs...


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## KenW (Mar 19, 2001)

I did get access to Instant Viewing. I can't get better than Basic either. Selection is pretty limited, unless you are a Dr Who fan.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

I get the following download quality.

Work with DSL
Almost always Basic (not sure if I have seen Good)

Laptop at Home with FiOS and 802.11g wireless network connection
Either Basic or Good (split roughly 50/50)

Desktop at Home with FiOS and ethernet connection (10/100 RJ45 Cat5?)
Usually Good or Excellent, but the rough split is: Basic 15%, Good 45%, Excellent 40%

Selection isn't great (only about 1,000 titles) -- the highlights for me were mostly movies that I have already seen (except for Little Britain, which I have also seen): Untouchables, Run Lola Run, The Motorcycle Diaries, Chinatown, The Hours, 12 Monkeys, The Bridge on the River Kwai, and the Untouchables.

I have eight movies in my Queue (of 500 movies) in Watch Now: The Sum of All Fears, Scratch, Super Size Me, Welcome to the Dollhouse, All Quiet on the Western Front, Horse Feathers, For Whom the Bell Tolls, and Brian's Song. Since there are only about 1-1/2% (approximately 1,000 on Watch Now versus 70,000+ DVD's) of Netflix's DVD titles available on Watch Now, that is about right.

If Netflix can get the rights to 5,000 movies by the end of the year (what they have publicly said they are trying to do), that would be closer to 7% of their DVD catalog. And I might have 3-4 times more movies from my DVD Queue available via Watch Now by the end of the year.

Another notable movie (which I haven't seen and is not in my Queue) is SherryBaby.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KenW said:


> I did get access to Instant Viewing. I can't get better than Basic either. Selection is pretty limited, unless you are a Dr Who fan.


can anyone who has gotten access to instant viewing on Netflix tell us how they were notified/ became aware they could use it ?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> can anyone who has gotten access to instant viewing on Netflix tell us how they were notified/ became aware they could use it ?


I wasn't notified at all. I just went to the Your Account page and clicked the help text at the right side about Watch Now. Then it started working.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

zatznotfunny and engadget posted suggestions that basically advised you to try to get it, request to be notified, log out, and try again (sometimes the next day). Presto! Or Voila, if you prefer


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## KenW (Mar 19, 2001)

It just came, no clue how they are picking. I went into my account, clicked on the link, and there it was. 

I tried connections in a few more locations, but still stuck at basic. My cable modem tests out at 2500 down, so I'm not sure what's the hangup.


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

I think the SlingCatcher will be the best way to watch NetFlix Watch Now movies. You should be able to use the SlingCatcher to watch ITunes videos also (in case you miss an episode of the Office). At under $200 it should be a much better value than an appletv (which is retailing for $299), too, at least IMHO.



weymo said:


> I am completely disappointed that TiVo (Linux) isn't supported for the rollout. Who says the S2 can't handle 16:9? That's ridiculous. And TiVoCast quality is fine for "free." I agree that TV show DVD's is where I'll start. They eat up the queue.
> Using the laptop to stream through my living room equipment is a pain...especially without a remote. Hooking it up to record it to the TiVo...nah...a bother.
> Slingbox it?
> I don't know...something in the press release made me think that they really want end-to-end control of the content....and where it will end up.


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## hyachts (Jan 4, 2005)

After sporadic attempts via the link on the "Your account" page mine was activated yesterday afternoon. Still haven't had time to play with it at home but at work it says I'll only get basic quality.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

BTW, just tried netflix. Quality was AMAZING, much better than Unbox. Sound wasn't great, but decent. I was really surprised.

I was really impressed with the PRICE, free with your netflix subscription!!

:up: :up: :up:


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## cap (Jan 27, 2001)

It is very nice. Too bad we can't stream the free show to the Tivo.

I'd use Unbox more if I didn't have to pay, but what are you going to do?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

cap said:


> It is very nice. Too bad we can't stream the free show to the Tivo.
> 
> I'd use Unbox more if I didn't have to pay, but what are you going to do?


I know.. it kills me that this doesn't work on the TiVo, but on the HTPC it is wonderful. I just need to figure out how to make it work with a remote. Quality much better than unbox...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

cap said:


> ...
> 
> I'd use Unbox more if I didn't have to pay, but what are you going to do?


made me laugh- I'd quite my job and live on the beach if I didn't have to pay the bills. But what are you going to do.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> made me laugh- I'd quite my job and live on the beach if I didn't have to pay the bills. But what are you going to do.


What are you talking about?? We're discussing how Netflix IS free. Amazon isn't. That was his point.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Yowzers ... now that my PS3 is so vastly superior to my TiVo (true! Even with TwonkyMedia) with Photos and Music (of course, when I downgrade from XP to Vista/Media Center), perhaps I should look into trying Netflix on my PS3's browser! That would be optimal!


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> What are you talking about?? We're discussing how Netflix IS free. Amazon isn't. That was his point.


i said he'd use unbox more if it was free.

I used a ferraris more if it was free.

I used forzen margarita's more if they were free.

I used more tivos and more plasma tv's if they were free

and on and on and on.

hence my comment.

netflix aint free- last i checked you have to pay a monthly fee.

I guess maybe he meant that he'd use unbox more if it was pay one price for an unlimited plan like netflix- but at the time it wasn't clear to me that's what he meant.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

or is there a free netflix trial or something that I'm unaware of?


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

MichaelK said:


> or is there a free netflix trial or something that I'm unaware of?


Yep, just use a neighbor's address and wait on the mailman...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> netflix aint free- last i checked you have to pay a monthly fee.
> 
> I guess maybe he meant that he'd use unbox more if it was pay one price for an unlimited plan like netflix- but at the time it wasn't clear to me that's what he meant.


  NOBODY said netflix was FREE. We're talking about watching Movies ONLINE, which is FREE with your regular netflix subscription. The person you replied to wished he could watch the free movies he already gets (because he has netflix) to his TiVo vs. paying $3.99 for Unbox. So if you're already using netflix to rent movies (as many people are), their new ONLINE service is free.

The reason this discussion is relevant on the TiVo forum is because TiVo announced plans to do exactly this but pulled out and went with Amazon.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I dont understand why you seem to be picking a fight.

I'm well aware that netflix and tivo had a deal that is now histroy.

the OP said:



cap said:


> ...
> 
> I'd use Unbox more if I didn't have to pay, but what are you going to do?


as I said- just seemed funny to me- again I'd use PPV, airplane tickets, takeout food and about a million other things "more if I didn't have to pay".

You can pretty much fill in that stateent with anything you want and it fits. that's all.

I scrolled back a couple months and I dont see the OP saying anyplace that he is comparing netflix which is free to him. You seem to be making that jump that he has netflix already (or perhaps you know from another thread- becasue it's not clear here?) . Maybe that's what he intended to say but I guess he just typed quickly and so it's an amusing statement that's all.

No need to get all bent about it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> NOBODY said netflix was FREE. We're talking about watching Movies ONLINE, which is FREE with your regular netflix subscription. The person you replied to wished he could watch the free movies he already gets (because he has netflix) to his TiVo vs. paying $3.99 for Unbox. So if you're already using netflix to rent movies (as many people are), their new ONLINE service is free.
> 
> The reason this discussion is relevant on the TiVo forum is because TiVo announced plans to do exactly this but pulled out and went with Amazon.


hey Adam1115 - as a third party observer I don't think MichaelK meant much more than he just found the line "I'd use Unbox more if I didn't have to pay, but what are you going to do?" funny. It did not even reference Netflix. I do not think you guys are actually disagreeing about Netflix or UNBOX or any plans but it is just a misunderstanding of intentions.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Quit squabbling, just get a PS3 

(so I'm being nice and painting a bullseye on my chest!)


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ashu said:


> Quit squabbling, just get a PS3
> 
> (so I'm being nice and painting a bullseye on my chest!)


Does the PS3 play netflix? I could ONLY get it to work in IE (not even in firefox...)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ashu said:


> Quit squabbling, just get a PS3
> 
> (so I'm being nice and painting a bullseye on my chest!)


We have shipped a case of kool-ade and a lapel pin your way. PS3 better than a TiVo, mumble, (*&, grumble


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Does the PS3 play netflix? I could ONLY get it to work in IE (not even in firefox...)


As I mentioned above, I will be trying it sometime this week/weekend. The browser is a BIT finicky - but I believe it handles Youtube.

Oh, and thanks for the KoolAid  The Photo playback off a networked server feature is AWESOME on the PS3. And the (limited codec so far) Audio & Video playback isn't bad either, and will soon get better.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ashu said:


> As I mentioned above, I will be trying it sometime this week/weekend. The browser is a BIT finicky - but I believe it handles Youtube.
> 
> Oh, and thanks for the KoolAid  The Photo playback off a networked server feature is AWESOME on the PS3. And the (limited codec so far) Audio & Video playback isn't bad either, and will soon get better.


hehe 

I treid signing in on the Nintendo Wii opera browser to Netflix but it stuck at the login for some reason. Obviously the PS3 will display far better resolution but I do wonder if its browser will hit some tech in the Netflix home page that will casue issues for it as well.

as a side note - I could log on to my ORB 2.0 home page and play H.264 videos off my orb server on the Wii no problem


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ashu said:


> As I mentioned above, I will be trying it sometime this week/weekend. The browser is a BIT finicky - but I believe it handles Youtube.
> 
> Oh, and thanks for the KoolAid  The Photo playback off a networked server feature is AWESOME on the PS3. And the (limited codec so far) Audio & Video playback isn't bad either, and will soon get better.


Youtube uses flash. Netflix uses their own proprietary player that you install from there site, and only works with IE.


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