# A simple handy feature TiVo should add



## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

Every so often I discover a new TV series.
Sometimes it's only new to me, so I start watching episodes from several seasons. Among the most recent were "Kitchen Nightmares" and "Renovation Realities."

The problem is, after hop-scotching over shows from several seasons, it's hard to keep track of which episodes I've seen and which I haven't. 
The show descriptions are little help (this is the "kitchen Nightmares" where the restaurant's serving bad food, or this is the "Renovation Realities" where the couple run into problems and don't finish their project on time).

I suppose I could keep a notebook listing the episodes I recorded and watched, and then check it before recording a new episode, but the TiVo could do this for me.
It would be a slick handy feature in my opinion.

-mj


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

macjeepster said:


> Every so often I discover a new TV series.
> Sometimes it's only new to me, so I start watching episodes from several seasons. Among the most recent were "Kitchen Nightmares" and "Renovation Realities."
> 
> The problem is, after hop-scotching over shows from several seasons, it's hard to keep track of which episodes I've seen and which I haven't.
> ...


Yeah, make it an extention of the Season Pass option where you are probably telling it to record both new and repeat episodes. I would think that the "To Do" scheduling SW could peruse your recording list and not duplicate anything that's there if that episode is repeated multiple times.


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## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

lillevig said:


> ... and not duplicate anything that's there if that episode is repeated multiple times.


Right. The trick is it can't just compare it to the just the recorded shows that are still on the TiVo. It needs to keep track of the the shows I recorded, watched and deleted last week, last month, six months ago.

I find I keep recording the same episodes, then only know I've already seen them when I go to watch them. Surely, TiVo can help me with this.

-mj


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

While it's not TiVo, there is a nice iOS app called TV Show Tracker that can help you keep track of episodes.


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## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

stevel said:


> While it's not TiVo, there is a nice iOS app called TV Show Tracker that can help you keep track of episodes.


Thanks Steve, That looks like a great app. It appears it will do what I want. I'm getting it now. It would be far more convenient if something like it were integrated into the TiVo software or at least into the excellent TiVo iPad app.
-mj


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

macjeepster said:


> I suppose I could keep a notebook listing the episodes I recorded and watched, and then check it before recording a new episode, but the TiVo could do this for me.
> It would be a slick handy feature in my opinion.


I use Notes on my iPhone, usually one per show.. but sometimes a few shows are grouped into one (more often PBS shows or something I see less frequently). Basically, my absolute favorite shows, I don't keep track of, since I'm 99.999% sure that I'm already seeing them.

That iOS app doesn't look like it's as extensive as I want.. but I'm glad others have had the same idea.

I'd pay a one time fee for this capability on a Tivo (even though I have lifetime subscriptions). It would have to have a bit of 'extra' user input ability, because of the fault of the networks/cable signals.. i.e. simply deleting a show wouldn't automatically add it to the "I've seen" list, though that would be the default.. You would need to be able to delete a show but NOT add it (e.g. last minute preemption), or not add it if the last 5 minutes was missing or something (I'm a stickler, I want to see the WHOLE show, that's why I want a lot more tuners so I can add padding to EVERYTHING).


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lillevig said:


> Yeah, make it an extention of the Season Pass option where you are probably telling it to record both new and repeat episodes. I would think that the "To Do" scheduling SW could peruse your recording list and not duplicate anything that's there if that episode is repeated multiple times.


It already works that way. If an episode has been recorded or scheduled to record within the last 28 days, it won't be automatically recorded unless the SP is set for "ALL(with duplicates) even if you have deleted it from the NPL. That is the primary purpose of the recording history. What the OP wants is for the TiVo to keep track of every episode of every show (or at least selected shows) that you have ever recorded.

Count me as a vote _*against*_ TiVo allocating any resources to develop this.


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## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> It already works that way. If an episode has been recorded or scheduled to record within the last 28 days, it won't be automatically recorded unless the SP is set for "ALL(with duplicates) even if you have deleted it from the NPL. That is the primary purpose of the recording history. What the OP wants is for the TiVo to keep track of every episode of every show (or at least selected shows) that you have ever recorded.


I'm sorry, James, you're mistaken. I'm not talking about SP recording. I rarely use SP for shows that are in their 5th or 6th season and often appear as marathons or multiple shows in a row several times throughout the day. For those types of shows, I use the "Upcoming Episodes" feature and select the showings myself (usually in non-primetime).
A "Delete and Remember" button would be handy for managing this type of recordings.

Am I alone? Do most people use SPs for a majority of their recordings? Should I switch? I always worry that if I'm not vigilant, the TiVo will choose to record things that appear over and over (cable) and miss things that air only once (broadcast).

But you raise an interesting question:
Why does the TiVo throw away the recording history after 28 days? What makes 28 days better than 14, 90 or 365? Wouldn't that be a good user-configurable setting?
Surely the problem can't be disk space. I bet 5 years of recording history wouldn't use as much space as two minutes of FD video.

- mj


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

macjeepster said:


> I'm sorry, James, you're mistaken. I'm not talking about SP recording. I rarely use SP for shows that are in their 5th or 6th season and often appear as marathons or multiple shows in a row several times throughout the day. For those types of shows, I use the "Upcoming Episodes" feature and select the showings myself (usually in non-primetime).
> A "Delete and Remember" button would be handy for managing this type of recordings.


So when you explicitly tell the TiVo to record something, you want it to check to see if you've ever recorded it previously and give you the option to not record it again? I'm pretty sure you are unique.



macjeepster said:


> Am I alone? Do most people use SPs for a majority of their recordings? Should I switch?


Yes, I would say that most, if not all, other TiVo users use SPs for this.



macjeepster said:


> I always worry that if I'm not vigilant, the TiVo will choose to record things that appear over and over (cable) and miss things that air only once (broadcast).


That's what the season pass manager is for. You make things that air only once a higher priority than things that air multiple times.



macjeepster said:


> But you raise an interesting question:
> Why does the TiVo throw away the recording history after 28 days? What makes 28 days better than 14, 90 or 365? Wouldn't that be a good user-configurable setting?
> Surely the problem can't be disk space. I bet 5 years of recording history wouldn't use as much space as two minutes of FD video.
> 
> - mj


You forget that TiVos have been around since 20GB was a large hard drive. Plus the more historical data you have to search, the longer the scheduler has to run.

Assuming that "FD" is a typo, it is an interesting one since the "F" key is exactly halfway between the "S" and "H" keys. At least on a standard "QWERTY" keyboard.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> So when you explicitly tell the TiVo to record something, you want it to check to see if you've ever recorded it previously and give you the option to not record it again? I'm pretty sure you are unique.


You are incorrect. There are lots of us that would love to have some sort of capability like this. I will agree that it's not something I want a lot of resources thrown at. But the concept is interesting.

Here's what I do, I run into this more often than one would think (lookin' at you, lpwcomp): I decide I want to start watching a series. Because I have an Elite with lots of room, I usually set it to record every episode. If I'm really lucky and/or timed it right, I can actually start the SP with S1E1 (WL for "Pilot" can find 'em). I then end up with every eps in perfect order. When I'm ready to start watching, I just start at the end and go. I'm doing this with Breaking Bad now (on 44/46:up, and have done it in the past with a number of shows I regret missing from the start (2.5Men, BBT, AD, FF, etc). Sometimes I only do a season at a time--I did this with West Wing, 24 and Veronica Mars.

I will print an eps list from epguides to make sure I have them all. But then I'm kinda anal in my TV viewing...

If the TiVo would track it, so much the better!

PS: Just realized, I'm doing this now for Hustle. I stopped watching when Bricks left the show, but now he's back and I'm recording all of them. Think I'm up to 27 or 28. When I get them all, I'll watch in order and if it's one I've watched, delete it. Sure could use a TiVo app for that!

I would also love this for shows where the OAD is all screwed up. I quit watching Flashpoint because the OAD is Canadian, not US. Between me & my TiVo, we had no idea what we had seen, and my FRO SP became useless. Yet syndication had me recording so many, I just gave up and killed the SP. Another use for this app/feature.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

astrohip said:


> You are incorrect. There are lots of us that would love to have some sort of capability like this. I will agree that it's not something I want a lot of resources thrown at. But the concept is interesting.
> 
> Here's what I do, I run into this more often than one would think (lookin' at you, lpwcomp): I decide I want to start watching a series. Because I have an Elite with lots of room, I usually set it to record every episode. If I'm really lucky and/or timed it right, I can actually start the SP with S1E1 (WL for "Pilot" can find 'em). I then end up with every eps in perfect order. When I'm ready to start watching, I just start at the end and go. I'm doing this with Breaking Bad now (on 44/46:up, and have done it in the past with a number of shows I regret missing from the start (2.5Men, BBT, AD, FF, etc). Sometimes I only do a season at a time--I did this with West Wing, 24 and Veronica Mars.
> 
> ...


Sorry, you are wrong about my being incorrect. I was specifically talking about his method of _*individually*_ recording episodes, not just the desire to extend the history. He wants the "extended history" checked when he explicitly records a showing, not just when the scheduler is processing a Season Pass. He doesn't use Season Passes.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I use Trakt.TV for this since TiVo doesn't incorporate it.

Hopefully if TiVo ever rolls out their SDK someone could write a Trakt plugin like they have for Media Center and XBMC that automatically flags episodes as you watch them.

Of course this won't help with the ability to have TiVo only record unwatched episodes since there is no option for that.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I use Trakt.TV for this since TiVo doesn't incorporate it.
> 
> Hopefully if TiVo ever rolls out their SDK someone could write a Trakt plugin like they have for Media Center and XBMC that automatically flags episodes as you watch them.
> 
> Of course this won't help with the ability to have TiVo only record unwatched episodes since there is no option for that.


Actually, if you were to use a PC for recording management, including SPs, all of this should be doable now with the current API - on Premieres. Plus you could do co-operative scheduling, multi-channel SPs and clear QAM scheduling. Of course, you could also have your never ending history.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> Sorry, you are wrong about my being incorrect. I was specifically talking about his method of _*individually*_ recording episodes, not just the desire to extend the history. He wants the "extended history" checked when he explicitly records a showing, not just when the scheduler is processing a Season Pass. He doesn't use Season Passes.


I want it when individually recording episodes too..

So that I can go through View Upcoming and it would say something like:
You already saw this episode

or if you cared for THIS info (I don't care for this much detail)
Someone in your house marked this episode as watched on Monday July 16, 2012 at 10:15 AM
(similar to what it does in recording history for shows it won't record in the future).


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> I want it when individually recording episodes too..
> 
> So that I can go through View Upcoming and it would say something like:
> You already saw this episode
> ...


My apologies, although I assume you actually do use SPs. And I repeat that this feature is of marginal utility and would require far more effort than it is worth.

As I've said about some of the other "simple" feature requests, simple to describe does not equate to simple to implement.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

macjeepster said:


> I'm sorry, James, you're mistaken. I'm not talking about SP recording. I rarely use SP for shows that are in their 5th or 6th season and often appear as marathons or multiple shows in a row several times throughout the day. For those types of shows, I use the "Upcoming Episodes" feature and select the showings myself (usually in non-primetime).
> A "Delete and Remember" button would be handy for managing this type of recordings.
> 
> Am I alone? Do most people use SPs for a majority of their recordings? Should I switch? I always worry that if I'm not vigilant, the TiVo will choose to record things that appear over and over (cable) and miss things that air only once (broadcast).
> ...


You have a point to an extent. A Season Pass(SP) does sometimes record things over and over again, even when set to first run only. I'm seeing that right now with the Big Bang Theory reruns on Fox and TBS. The way I get around that is I prioritize my SPs in the SP list by emphasizing shows that air multiple times throughout the day so that they don't bump shows that air only once a week or day.

I would like it if you could list shows by original air date or episode number within a group, or record a particular episode of a show by episode number. For instance, if I decide I want to start watching "The Walking Dead" I'd like to set a SP on it and list the episodes by number in the group the TiVo creates and perhaps notify me when a recording season is complete.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You are at the mercy of the quality of the guide data. Some channels, and TBS is a notable culprit, screw up the series and show identifiers or send wrong first-air dates. TiVo can't help you with that.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

What I have suggested to TiVo in the past is to be able when deleting something to have the option to never record it again.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> You have a point to an extent. A Season Pass(SP) does sometimes record things over and over again, even when set to first run only. I'm seeing that right now with the Big Bang Theory reruns on Fox and TBS. The way I get around that is I prioritize my SPs in the SP list by emphasizing shows that air multiple times throughout the day so that they don't bump shows that air only once a week or day.


Why do you have FRO SPs for "The Big Bang Theory" on Fox and TBS? It is a CBS show. No first run episodes of it on either of those channels. As a matter of fact, it isn't actually on Fox at all. Your local Fox affiliate may be showing it, but it isn't the network. Based on what I'm seeing in the guide (full data and nothing flagged as "NEW"), an FRO SP shouldn't record any episodes.



Stormspace said:


> I would like it if you could list shows by original air date or episode number within a group, or record a particular episode of a show by episode number. For instance, if I decide I want to start watching "The Walking Dead" I'd like to set a SP on it and list the episodes by number in the group the TiVo creates and perhaps notify me when a recording season is complete.


You can always set up an auto-record wishlist entry for each episode you want to record.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

astrohip said:


> You are incorrect. There are lots of us that would love to have some sort of capability like this. I will agree that it's not something I want a lot of resources thrown at. But the concept is interesting.
> 
> Here's what I do, I run into this more often than one would think (lookin' at you, lpwcomp): I decide I want to start watching a series. Because I have an Elite with lots of room, I usually set it to record every episode. If I'm really lucky and/or timed it right, I can actually start the SP with S1E1 (WL for "Pilot" can find 'em). I then end up with every eps in perfect order. When I'm ready to start watching, I just start at the end and go. I'm doing this with Breaking Bad now (on 44/46:up, and have done it in the past with a number of shows I regret missing from the start (2.5Men, BBT, AD, FF, etc). Sometimes I only do a season at a time--I did this with West Wing, 24 and Veronica Mars.


I've done this kind of thing once or twice over the years. Not often but just often enough that a feature like macjeepster requested (but for season passes) would have been appreciated.

For that matter for shows that run reruns out of order, or where I've missed an episode and grabbed a rerun weeks later, I've occasionally wished for a sort option of "by original air date".
Assuming the guide data was good* that would order the episodes in series order (minus any missing episodes)

*And ignoring oddball situations like Firefly where the episodes were aired badly out of order


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Why do you have FRO SPs for "The Big Bang Theory" on Fox and TBS? It is a CBS show. No first run episodes of it on either of those channels. As a matter of fact, it isn't actually on Fox at all. Your local Fox affiliate may be showing it, but it isn't the network. Based on what I'm seeing in the guide (full data and nothing flagged as "NEW"), an FRO SP shouldn't record any episodes.
> 
> You can always set up an auto-record wishlist entry for each episode you want to record.


The goal at the time was to catch up my wife on old episodes. I originally set the FRO SP on TBS, but noticed that suggestions from FOX were showing up in the list, so I added another SP without really thinking about it. After a while I noticed dups showing up on both channels so I restricted it to FRO, yet I was still getting every airing. Checking the guide data showed that all eps were listed as first run on both channels, even for reruns on the same channel.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> The goal at the time was to catch up my wife on old episodes. I originally set the FRO SP on TBS, but noticed that suggestions from FOX were showing up in the list, so I added another SP without really thinking about it. After a while I noticed dups showing up on both channels so I restricted it to FRO, yet I was still getting every airing. Checking the guide data showed that all eps were listed as first run on both channels, even for reruns on the same channel.


Looking at the zap2it listings for TWC in your area, I see absolutely no reason for this to be happening. All of the episodes of "The Big Bang Theory" have complete guide data on both channels.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> My apologies, although I assume you actually do use SPs. And I repeat that this feature is of marginal utility and would require far more effort than it is worth.


It would be VERY SIMPLE. I work in software.

It is of GREAT UTILITY. Just because you don't think it's useful, doesn't mean most people wouldn't think it's useful. Much of the infrastructure (keeping track of what it has recorded) is already there, but of course currently that is thrown out on a 28 day sliding window.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> It would be VERY SIMPLE. I work in software.
> 
> It is of GREAT UTILITY. Just because you don't think it's useful, doesn't mean most people wouldn't think it's useful. Much of the infrastructure (keeping track of what it has recorded) is already there, but of course currently that is thrown out on a 28 day sliding window.


I've been a s/w developer for almost 40 years, including 17 as an O/S analyst. It's not as "simple" as you make it out. The history would have to be extended by two orders of magnitude, it would have to be a configurable option, you'd have to make sure they're aren't any unintended consequences, etc. Even it is

I suppose whether or not it is of "GREAT UTILITY" is a matter of opinion, as is the percentage of users who would use it.

For other reasons, I've been giving some thought recently to developing a PC based Premiere scheduler. I will add the to my list of possible features. Of course, this presupposes that I actually get around to developing it.  Feel free to DIY.

One last thing - no matter how much you extend the history, it won't help in the situation where there is no individual episode information.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

waynomo said:


> What I have suggested to TiVo in the past is to be able when deleting something to have the option to never record it again.


Would love this feature. I sometimes set up ARWL for people or directors, and then over time, as it records movies I don't want, I go back and start adding -(xxx) to the WL. PITA. Your idea would completely solve this.

Bottom line: We're for the most part advanced users, and want features 90% of users wouldn't use or understand.


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## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

I want to thank everyone for offering opinions on what could be a handy addition to the TiVo software. If I said something to anger James lpwcomp, I apologize. But I do wonder what Steve Jobs would have said if a programmer would have told him the following:


lpwcomp said:


> I've been a s/w developer for almost 40 years, including 17 as an O/S analyst. It's not as "simple" as you make it out. The history would have to be extended by two orders of magnitude, it would have to be a configurable option, you'd have to make sure they're aren't any unintended consequences, etc....


I also want to better explain a couple of things that this gentleman got wrong about me:
For the record, I do use season passes, and I do rank them in order of priority. But I only use them for must-see new episodes; I manually fill in with other shows myself. I usually want episodes that are new to me from shows that have been on many seasons.
I would be nervous about what I'd get if I only used SPs and let the TiVo handle everything.


lpwcomp said:


> You forget that TiVos have been around since 20GB was a large hard drive. Plus the more historical data you have to search, the longer the scheduler has to run.


I haven't forgotten anything. My first Mac hard drive was 20MB and cost $715. My first Series 1 TiVo, a Sony, I believe had a 30GB hard drive. I don't understand how this is relevant to the value of a new feature today that's well within the capability of modern equipment and skilled programmers. 
I also don't understand why the amount of time the scheduler has to run is a big problem. I think most people keep their TiVo on all the time; it might as well be doing something.
-mj


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## tomm1079 (May 10, 2005)

I personally would love for tivo to add a per folder option of View by original air date or view by Series/Epsoide


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

macjeepster said:


> I want to thank everyone for offering opinions on what could be a handy addition to the TiVo software. If I said something to anger James lpwcomp, I apologize. But I do wonder what Steve Jobs would have said if a programmer would have told him the following:


There are a lot of times when it would have been a good thing if someone had told Steve _*Ballmer*_ something similar and he had actually listened. BTW, no anger on my part.



macjeepster said:


> I also want to better explain a couple of things that this gentleman got wrong about me:
> For the record, I do use season passes, and I do rank them in order of priority. But I only use them for must-see new episodes; I manually fill in with other shows myself. I usually want episodes that are new to me from shows that have been on many season.
> I would be nervous about what I'd get if I only used SPs and let the TiVo handle everything.


My apologies. For some reason, I read "rarely" and my brain stored "never". 



macjeepster said:


> I haven't forgotten anything. My first Mac hard drive was 20MB and cost $715. My first Series 1 TiVo, a Sony, I believe had a 30MB hard drive. I don't understand how this is relevant to the value of a new feature today that's well within the capability of modern equipment and skilled programmers.


The 28 day rule was established when disk space was at a premium. And based on recent experience, I'm not sure I would call the current TiVo s/w development team "skilled" although it may be more a case of pressure from management to "get something out the door". Personally, I wish they'd make the TiVo s/w more fault tolerant. A disk error while recording or playing back shouldn't cause a system crash.



macjeepster said:


> I also don't understand why the amount of time the scheduler has to run is a big problem. I think most people keep their TiVo on all the time; it might as well be doing something.
> -mj


I might agree with you if scheduling was always done in the background. It isn't. Since you do use SPs and the SP manager, when you reorganize them, surely you have noticed that there is a noticeable and annoying delay when exiting.

As for your specific situation, might I suggest creating ARWL entries for the episodes you want to record. Fairly easy if a bit tiresome when using the HDUI. More difficult with the SDUI. But I would think it is better than having to check "Upcoming" every week or so and scheduling the episodes you want.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tomm1079 said:


> I personally would love for tivo to add a per folder option of View by original air date or view by Series/Epsoide


I too would like to see more sort options. Even a simple choice of ascending or descending would be nice.

The lack of the ability to sort on OAD is why I have modified my personal version of pyTivoMetaThis to add the "time" entry to the metadata. And to set the T part of both the OAD and time to 23:00:00. And one of the reasons I prefer "Pull" to "Push".

The current Premiere s/w doesn't even seem to have an option for sort order within a group. Always descending by record time.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Couldn't Tivo make it so I can skip 2 minutes 30 seconds with one button press to equal most commercials?
I know that I can set it up to skip 30 seconds a press, but then I have to do that manually five times, and that also takes away my 15 minute skip feature.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

replaytv said:


> Couldn't Tivo make it so I can skip 2 minutes 30 seconds with one button press to equal most commercials?
> I know that I can set it up to skip 30 seconds a press, but then I have to do that manually five times, and that also takes away my 15 minute skip feature.


Skip to tic is still available while in FF or RW.

I'm just hoping that the 30-second skip back-door feature remains available.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

I agree that this is entirely possible and potentially very useful. The main problem I see is that Tivo marketing will decide to do it but they will leave out 10% of what is needed to make this useful and the absence of that 10% will make the whole thing useless and then Tivo will think it is a useless idea.

For every one person in this thread saying it is a bad idea, there are thousands that will use the feature if it were implemented (correctly).

It would be useful if this were done for movies too, not just show episodes. My mother gives every movie two thumbs-up. She is definitely not the type to use a computer (other than her Tivo) nor is she organized enough to keep a list of what she has seen. She is highy dependent on the thumbs-up to keep track of what she has seen. She cannot remember every show she has seen just based on title and a vague description. She needs historical data. She is very frustrated that we are unable to get the thumbs-up data from our Tivo that has failed to the new Tivo.

Tivo is behind time. When they get around to using current technology, they can store some data such as the historical data described here in the Tivo servers or in a "Cloud". Smartphones do it. Current Tivos must be connected to the internet so that is not a problem.



macjeepster said:


> Surely, TiVo can help me with this.


Of course.



stevel said:


> While it's not TiVo, there is a nice iOS app called TV Show Tracker that can help you keep track of episodes.


Does that require an iPhone? Does it require typing in the data? For those of us that have a Windows computer, there is also something in Windows called Notepad that could be very effective. Personally I prefer to let Tivo do it all for me. It is a computer too. For my mother, nothing is effective other than Tivo.



lpwcomp said:


> Count me as a vote _*against*_ TiVo allocating any resources to develop this.


There are thousands that would vote for it.



lpwcomp said:


> You forget that TiVos have been around since 20GB was a large hard drive. Plus the more historical data you have to search, the longer the scheduler has to run.


I think forgetting the past is a good thing for this discussion. Tivo was designed when Tivoe had to use the phone line to phone home. Don't look backward; look forward. The internet opens the whole world to Tivo. The little smartphone in your pocket can search more data than needs to be searched for doing what is described here.



lpwcomp said:


> Actually, if you were to use a PC for recording management, including SPs, all of this should be doable now with the current API - on Premieres. Plus you could do co-operative scheduling, multi-channel SPs and clear QAM scheduling. Of course, you could also have your never ending history.


I am not familiar with an API for scheduling shows to be recorded. I know it is possible for a Windows program to get the list of recorded programs from a Tivo but I am not sure the data is specific enough for this. Assuming it is, then it is just a matter of checking the data periodicly. It would be better if it could be event-driven but otherwise it is posible.



lpwcomp said:


> You can always set up an auto-record wishlist entry for each episode you want to record.


Again that is something a computer can do much more conveniently.



lpwcomp said:


> I've been a s/w developer for almost 40 years, including 17 as an O/S analyst.


I have also been a developer for about 40 years, except I intentionally avoided technical support. To the extent that an OS Analyst is someone that installs, maintains and debugs software developed by others with little or no opportunity to fix the software, I chose to be in application develppment. Application development includes databases.



lpwcomp said:


> It's not as "simple" as you make it out.


Using database software it is as easy as driving a car, for those of us that drive every day.



lpwcomp said:


> The history would have to be extended by two orders of magnitude


What?



lpwcomp said:


> it would have to be a configurable option


Of course. Application developers constantly do that type of thing to the UI.



lpwcomp said:


> you'd have to make sure they're aren't any unintended consequences, etc.


Are you saying you do not normally do that to the software you develop? I assume you develop software.



lpwcomp said:


> it won't help in the situation where there is no individual episode information.


That is a separate problem to be solved separately.



lpwcomp said:


> And based on recent experience, I'm not sure I would call the current TiVo s/w development team "skilled" although it may be more a case of pressure from management to "get something out the door".


Yes many companies do not understand application development adequately. Many managers are impressed by programmers working long hours to get something done but the managers do not understand that quality takes time and saves money. Unfortunately too few managers understand the answer to that riddle.



lpwcomp said:


> Personally, I wish they'd make the TiVo s/w more fault tolerant. A disk error while recording or playing back shouldn't cause a system crash.


Yes. I am not sure how much that is a problem but I think they do not use enough asynchronous programming, similar to what you call the background. They should do more error checking and they should log errors so that if a hard drive is going bad, we should have something notifying us of the problem.



lpwcomp said:


> I might agree with you if scheduling was always done in the background. It isn't. Since you do use SPs and the SP manager, when you reorganize them, surely you have noticed that there is a noticeable and annoying delay when exiting.


I agree that they could and should do more in the background (asynchronously).


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Sam Ray said:


> For every one person in this thread saying it is a bad idea, there are thousands that will use the feature if it were implemented (correctly).


You base that on what exactly?



Sam Ray said:


> Tivo is behind time. When they get around to using current technology, they can store some data such as the historical data described here in the Tivo servers or in a "Cloud". Smartphones do it. Current Tivos must be connected to the internet so that is not a problem.


I certainly don't want my TiVos even more dependent on the net than they already are, which in some ways is too much already. For instance, if you're using the HDUI and there is a network or TiVo server outage, you have 0 search capability. It does not fall back to a search of the local guide data.



Sam Ray said:


> I am not familiar with an API for scheduling shows to be recorded. I know it is possible for a Windows program to get the list of recorded programs from a Tivo but I am not sure the data is specific enough for this. Assuming it is, then it is just a matter of checking the data periodicly. It would be better if it could be event-driven but otherwise it is posible.


Definitely doable, using the same methods used by kmttg.



Sam Ray said:


> I have also been a developer for about 40 years, except I intentionally avoided technical support. To the extent that an OS Analyst is someone that installs, maintains and debugs software developed by others with little or no opportunity to fix the software, I chose to be in application develppment. Application development includes databases.


You are absolutely clueless about what an O/S analyst does or at least what I and my colleagues did. I worked on "big iron" - CDC 6000's, 70's, 170's, and 180's running Kronos, NOS, NOS/BE, and NOS/VE. Except for NOS/VE, we had the source code for the O/S and I modified both CP and PP O/S code. I wrote O/S level programs from scratch, in both Compass (CDC's assembly language) and Cybil. I also wrote assembly language programs for a Modcomp and and an FR-80. So you can take your superior attitude and stuff it! It's also nice to know that you have such intimate knowledge of the TiVo database structure.



Sam Ray said:


> What?


The history is currently 28 days. To what do you propose to extend it?



Sam Ray said:


> Are you saying you do not normally do that to the software you develop? I assume you develop software.


 That veiled insult was a completely uncalled for. I only brought it up for three reasons:


Some people seem to think (I don't include you) that it is a simple matter of writing a few lines of code, recompiling, and voila, everything works perfectly.
Recent history would indicate that the TiVo s/w is not being subjected to rigorous testing.
Write and test idiot proof s/w and the world will produce a better idiot.



Sam Ray said:


> Yes many companies do not understand application development adequately. Many managers are impressed by programmers working long hours to get something done but the managers do not understand that quality takes time and saves money. Unfortunately too few managers understand the answer to that riddle.


It's more than that. There's the "feature creep" problem. I was tech lead on a project (cable routing system for Bellefonte nuclear power plant. I did most of the UI, written in PL/1 and using ISPF dialog manager). Saying that the requirements were written in Jell-o would have vastly overrepresented their solidity. But we were told we absolutely had to meet the original delivery date, which strangely enough was the last day of the current fiscal year.



Sam Ray said:


> Yes. I am not sure how much that is a problem but I think they do not use enough asynchronous programming, similar to what you call the background. They should do more error checking and they should log errors so that if a hard drive is going bad, we should have something notifying us of the problem.


It's more a case of having better error handling. Having an asynchronous task checking the disk is not really the answer. I've also had a TiVo reboot when a recording date (time) in the metadata is prior to @1970. I suspect that it caused an arithmetic overflow or underflow.

Ya know, I _*had*_ planned to go to bed early, but to try to discourage people from thinking that I am taking a "superior attitude", I will tell a story on myself:

While working in the systems group at FSU, I once modified the Kronos CPU system executive(CPUMTR) but left out one instruction (increment of a B register, IIRC). Didn't fail when I tested it but when it was put into production, it ended up putting the exec into an infinite loop. Blank consoles. Operator calls. Deadstart, get a dump. I look at dump and code. OOPS.

With that, I bid you all a belated adieu.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Looking at the zap2it listings for TWC in your area, I see absolutely no reason for this to be happening. All of the episodes of "The Big Bang Theory" have complete guide data on both channels.


And yet it happened. It was like a BBT virus or something. I ended up hosing all season passes for BBT on that TiVo, changed every other SP to FRO, and deleted almost everything that looked like a rerun. In retaliation that TiVo stuck out it's tongue, made a rude noise, and died. I'm currently waiting on a replacement.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> And yet it happened. It was like a BBT virus or something. I ended up hosing all season passes for BBT on that TiVo, changed every other SP to FRO, and deleted almost everything that looked like a rerun. In retaliation that TiVo stuck out it's tongue, made a rude noise, and died. I'm currently waiting on a replacement.


So recording something it shouldn't have was a cry for help?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> So recording something it shouldn't have was a cry for help?


That's the way I see it.


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## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm more convinced than ever that some implementation of this feature set would be useful to a lot of people. It would be a way to set TiVo apart from the me-too DVRs, which face it, until you use both, seem like they're just as good as TiVo (and cheaper).
Clearly TiVo stumbled badly on the early versions of the new software, but it's working pretty well now, at least it is for me.
And the iPad app is fantastic. It's worth buying an iPad for it alone.
It's the computer's job to make complicated jobs simple.
And it's the programmer's job, imho, to make that happen.
I appreciate that it's hard. That's why they earn the big bucks (my son is studying comp sci at Stony Brook University).
I'd love to see TiVo add something like this, plus some related features I haven't thought of. Let the TiVo keep track of my viewing for me.
-mj


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I'm a little late coming into this discussion, but...



macjeepster said:


> I'm sorry, James, you're mistaken. I'm not talking about SP recording. I rarely use SP for shows that are in their 5th or 6th season and often appear as marathons or multiple shows in a row several times throughout the day.


So what? An SP set for the primary channel will not pick up episodes in syndication on other channels. An SP set up for "first run only" will not record older shows, although the mechanics of this feature are not perfect, so I don't use it.



macjeepster said:


> For those types of shows, I use the "Upcoming Episodes" feature and select the showings myself (usually in non-primetime).


That is an awful lot of work for something that doesn't really need to be done in the first place.



macjeepster said:


> Am I alone?


I think mostly, yeah.



macjeepster said:


> Do most people use SPs for a majority of their recordings?


I certainly do not, but then few of my recordings (not even one in ten) is part of a series. For the handful that are series, in truth I don't mostly use an SP. I don't select them, at all. I just let them be picked up by Suggestions, or in a few cases a Wishlist. For those I definitely want to be recorded and kept a while, I set an SP, or in some cases (syndication), more than one. It sounds to me like you are speaking of items in the latter category, in which case a Season Pass is definitely the proper answer. I just don't do much of that, myself.



macjeepster said:


> Should I switch?


Well, it's a little difficult to be sure, but it surely sounds like it.



macjeepster said:


> I always worry that if I'm not vigilant, the TiVo will choose to record things that appear over and over (cable)


Well, unless you set the SP for the cable channel(s) in question, it won't, but even supposing it did, so what? It wouldn't really hurt anything.



macjeepster said:


> and miss things that air only once (broadcast).


Definitely not. Why would it do so, unless of course the schedule changes at the last minute, an emergency broadcast pre-empts it, the schedule was wrong in the first place, or a system failure occurs?



macjeepster said:


> But you raise an interesting question:
> Why does the TiVo throw away the recording history after 28 days? What makes 28 days better than 14, 90 or 365? Wouldn't that be a good user-configurable setting?
> Surely the problem can't be disk space. I bet 5 years of recording history wouldn't use as much space as two minutes of FD video.


My guess would be database processing time. The amount of time required to search and cross-reference the database grows geometrically as the size of the database grows. Remember, the database processing must occur in the background and may be pre-empted by any real time or foreground processes on a regular basis, and people already complain about how slow the menus are.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mattack said:


> I want it when individually recording episodes too..


Why would anyone ever record an individual episode? It's a heck of a lot of work to do something the TiVo can handle for you without wasting a lot of time endlessly searching through the silly guide.



mattack said:


> or if you cared for THIS info (I don't care for this much detail)
> Someone in your house marked this episode as watched on Monday July 16, 2012 at 10:15 AM
> (similar to what it does in recording history for shows it won't record in the future).


So what if it does record it? Will your TV blow up? Will the state police descend on your house and arrest you for recording an episode a second time? So the TiVo records something you have seen before? BFFD. Deleting it, if you bother to do so, and which is not required, either, takes a fraction of a second - far, far less time than searching through the guide even one time, let alone hundreds of times.

Finally, what's wrong with recording an episode a second (or third or fourth) time? I frequently will watch an episode multiple times, if it was a good one. The rest I just delete, or more likely just let the TiVo delete them for me.

Time spent searching for an episode to record: 0
Time spent worrying about whether an episode was previously recorded or not: 0
Time spent deleting episodes I have already seen: 20 or 30 seconds a week.
Time spent letting the Tivo take care of it: 24 x 7


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> And I repeat that this feature is of marginal utility and would require far more effort than it is worth.


Worse than being marginal, it would seem to encourage bad practices.



lpwcomp said:


> As I've said about some of the other "simple" feature requests, simple to describe does not equate to simple to implement.


:up::up::up:

Well, not necessarily, anyway. What's more, sometimes things that are devilishly difficult to describe in English are fairly easy to accomplish in code.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

macjeepster said:


> I'm more convinced than ever that some implementation of this feature set would be useful to a lot of people.j


I'm more convinced than ever it is a dumb idea. The only thing it allows anyone to do is to waste time attempting to do something t he TiVo can already handle far, far better than the person can without their intervention. It's a little like putting curb feelers on a Formula V race car, or attaching a pad and pencil to a PC with a post-it note feature installed.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Sam Ray said:


> I agree that this is entirely possible and potentially very useful.


Why? Why would anyone who actually makes use of the features already built into the TiVo consider employing this kludge?



Sam Ray said:


> For every one person in this thread saying it is a bad idea, there are thousands that will use the feature if it were implemented (correctly).


Presenting someone with a feature that encourages them to engage in bad practices is not doing them any sort of favor.



Sam Ray said:


> It would be useful if this were done for movies too, not just show episodes. My mother gives every movie two thumbs-up. She is definitely not the type to use a computer (other than her Tivo) nor is she organized enough to keep a list of what she has seen.


So what?



Sam Ray said:


> She is highy dependent on the thumbs-up to keep track of what she has seen.


Huh? You lost me on that one. The thumbs-up and especially thumbs-down keys are fabulous features, but I'm afraid I don't see why one would use them to keep track of anything.



Sam Ray said:


> She cannot remember every show she has seen just based on title and a vague description.


Neither can I. So what?



Sam Ray said:


> Tivo is behind time.


Not at all. They just do not pander to totally idiotic new ideas. Well, actually, they do. Just look at the Premier. What a pile of crap.



Sam Ray said:


> For those of us that have a Windows computer,


Mouring can be scheduled at a convenient time.



Sam Ray said:


> there is also something in Windows called Notepad that could be very effective.


Notepad!!! Whoever wrote notepad should be strung up by their gonads from a wire run down through their mouth and innards. It is an abysmally bad program, top to bottom.



Sam Ray said:


> There are thousands that would vote for it.


Thousands, millions actually, bought pet rocks, too.



Sam Ray said:


> I think forgetting the past is a good thing for this discussion. Tivo was designed when Tivoe had to use the phone line to phone home. Don't look backward; look forward.


I really have to laugh at silly statements like this. The only reason of which I can conceive that a person would want to employ a feature such as this is because they are clinging to habits derived from a feature developed in the 1950s, and perhaps also ones created in the 1970s and 1980s.

The principle use extolled for this feature is embedded in the use of the program guide. The program guide was developed in the 1950s when it had to be printed on paper. It was a poor solution even then, but the best available with the technology of the time. The invention of the TiVo made the program guide almost completely obsolete, yet people cling to it.

Then comes the 1970s, and personal computers were invented. Personal computers with very stunted storage capabilities. Of course today PCs are in widespread use, and the storage capabilities are far less stunted (*!!!*) than they were, but people still must watch for drive capacity exhaustion. For some reason, many people carry over that ingrained idea to the TiVo. Unless the TiVo's hard drive is too small, it will never suffer from capacity exhaustion.

Finally, along comes the 1980s, and VCRs became ubiquitous. The problem was, they suffered from capacity exhaustion even more than the PC, the fact their media was removable notwithstanding. The thing is, many people today still think of the TiVo as basically a fancy VCR. It is not. It has features that completely eliminate the pitfalls of VCRs. All one must do is embrace those features and drop the bad habits they developed when using them as if they were, well, a bad habit.

No offense to you and certainly none at all to your mother, but it is significant you extoll this as a new and innovative feature and in virtually the same breath say it is something your mother can use because she is more or less unable to use anything new or innovative. Hmmm.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

macjeepster said:


> It's the computer's job to make complicated jobs simple.


Not really. A far better use of computers is to handle the simple, but tedious, jobs and let people handle the complex ones. Computers are far, far better at simple, repetitive tasks than humans are. Humans are far better at complex tasks. It took the most sophisticated computer on the planet and years of work to build a computer that could play Jeopardy. Building a computer that can sort and count millions of coins is dead easy. Building one that can autonomously design a boat is a task no one has been able to accomplish. Do yourself a favor. Forget about doing simple tasks. Let the computer handle them. Otherwise you risk being replaced by the computer - with good reason.



macjeepster said:


> I appreciate that it's hard.


Not really. It's fun, and quite easy, comparatively speaking, if one has the skills. That's why you don't see a lot of competent developers bailing hay or picking cotton for a living. Having done a fair bit of all three in my life, I can tell you programming is by a tremendously huge margin a great deal easier. It is in fact among both the easiest and most enjoyable things I know.



macjeepster said:


> That's why they earn the big bucks (my son is studying comp sci at Stony Brook University).


No, they earn the big bucks because most people are uninterested in doing it, and a lot are unable. Exactly why they are paid more than people who bail hay is rather a mystery to me, though, since most people are uninterested in doing that and are also unable.



macjeepster said:


> I'd love to see TiVo add something like this, plus some related features I haven't thought of. Let the TiVo keep track of my viewing for me.


It already does, in the important aspects. This one rates pretty low, perhaps even a negative number, on that scale.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> I certainly don't want my TiVos even more dependent on the net than they already are, which in some ways is too much already.


Actually, I'm not quite sure what he is suggesting the use of the internet would be in the context of this discussion. I think he is just hand waving.



lpwcomp said:


> For instance, if you're using the HDUI and there is a network or TiVo server outage, you have 0 search capability. It does not fall back to a search of the local guide data.


That, plus it is crap in the first place.



lpwcomp said:


> 1. Some people seem to think (I don't include you) that it is a simple matter of writing a few lines of code, recompiling, and voila, everything works perfectly.


Based on his post, I'm not so sure you shouldn't include him.



lpwcomp said:


> 3. Write and test idiot proof s/w and the world will produce a better idiot.


Actually, more than anything else, it then produces more idiots. Lots more.

One of my colleagues was in the Air Force Comm Squadron. When they would get a real wanker they would pass him off to another department and assign a ticket number to the case. The ticket number would be One-D-Ten-T.



lpwcomp said:


> It's more than that. There's the "feature creep" problem. I was tech lead on a project (cable routing system for Bellefonte nuclear power plant. I did most of the UI, written in PL/1 and using ISPF dialog manager). Saying that the requirements were written in Jell-o would have vastly overrepresented their solidity. But we were told we absolutely had to meet the original delivery date, which strangely enough was the last day of the current fiscal year.


<gulp>

Given that your experience was probably in no way an isolated one, what sort of confidence does that give you (or should give us) in the nuclear power industry infrastructure, especially when it comes to safety?



lpwcomp said:


> It's more a case of having better error handling.


I would say it is more a matter of, "Why bother". This is a consumer device designed to record and playback video, not an aforementioned safety measure for a nuclear power plant. It costs less than most PCs. Most PCs do not come with such a feature (unless of course they run Linux). Why is the complaint being made about the TiVo and not his desktop?

That said, it should be trivial to port smartctl to the TiVo...

Hmm. You know, maybe I'll look into that. I think SMART monitoring is already compiled into the kernel. Porting smartctl and ssmtp should be straightforward. I've often thought of implementing a TiVo cross-compiler. Hmm.



lpwcomp said:


> Ya know, I _*had*_ planned to go to bed early, but to try to discourage people from thinking that I am taking a "superior attitude", I will tell a story on myself:


Yeah, we've all done things like that. One time I apparently inadvertently made the chroot directory of one of my web servers world writable. Oops. I found out when someone replaced my default page with one of their own. Fortunately they didn't do anything else nasty. I swear I do not remember ever doing anything so foolish, though, but I fail to see how anyone else could have done it. I'm embarrassed to relate how many times I have created an infinite or unstable loop by writing to the wrong variable inside the loop.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> So what if it does record it? Will your TV blow up? Will the state police descend on your house and arrest you for recording an episode a second time? So the TiVo records something you have seen before? BFFD. Deleting it, if you bother to do so, and which is not required, either, takes a fraction of a second - far, far less time than searching through the guide even one time, let alone hundreds of times.
> 
> Finally, what's wrong with recording an episode a second (or third or fourth) time? I frequently will watch an episode multiple times, if it was a good one. The rest I just delete, or more likely just let the TiVo delete them for me.


I don't want to watch an episode I've seen before.. (the VAST majority of the time)

Since I don't remember every second of every show I have seen before, I often realize *part of the way through* that I have seen it.. thus I waste the time up until then.

So I'd rather have *it* keep track of what shows I have seen before, and tell me that it was marked as watched.


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## theraven146 (Jul 25, 2012)

That's a great point macjeepster. At least a basic tracking system that can tell you what you have watched and what you haven't can be of great help. All it needs is a simple tool where you can record or make entry of the series or episodes you have watched. The list of new shows are indeed confusing and it is literally impossible to keep track of all the episodes.


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

I had a similar idea...I would like it if when you cancel a recording or delete a show if it would give me the following options: "Record Again Later" or "Do Not Record Again". This would solve your problem by marking the episode so that it is never rerecorded [even months later] and would also take care of a problem I run into sometimes where I have to cancel an episode of a season pass to allow for a one-time recording (sporting event, movie, etc...), but would like the TiVo to record it the next time it comes on. You could even add a time period such as "Do Not Rerecord for X Days".


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## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> Worse than being marginal, it would seem to encourage bad practices.


Apparently there's a "good" way to use my TiVo and a "bad" way; who knew?

By clicking on "upcoming episodes" and making my own selections, seeking off-peak times and attempting to record episodes that were new to me, and balance the number of episodes on hand for several multi-season shows, I was engaging in "bad practices."

I think when there's more than one logical way to accomplish something, good software lets each user decide which is "right."

I think the TiVo should handle the tedious chore of track-keeping and let me do the choosing; the TiVo can provide key info to make better choices. Agredon's idea sounds great, and even simpler than I was envisioning:



agredon said:


> I had a similar idea...I would like it if when you cancel a recording or delete a show if it would give me the following options: "Record Again Later" or "Do Not Record Again". This would solve your problem by marking the episode so that it is never rerecorded [even months later] and would also take care of a problem I run into sometimes where I have to cancel an episode of a season pass to allow for a one-time recording (sporting event, movie, etc...), but would like the TiVo to record it the next time it comes on. You could even add a time period such as "Do Not Rerecord for X Days".


-mj


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mattack said:


> I don't want to watch an episode I've seen before.. (the VAST majority of the time)


One might be compelled to ask, "Why?" It is arrogant to think one could ever obtain everything from any form of communication, especially a piece of art, with only one exposure. If something is worth watching in the first place, then it is generally worth watching more than once. Of course, most things out there are not worth watching even once.



mattack said:


> Since I don't remember every second of every show I have seen before, I often realize *part of the way through* that I have seen it.. thus I waste the time up until then.


No, you didn't, because if you do not remember it, then it is precisely the same as never having watched it in the first place. It is the first time you watched it that was a waste of time, not the second, although if it is so forgettable you don't remember the first time you watched it, then it is surely better you had never watched it at all. I will certainly allow in such a case it would be better not to watch it a second time, but it is better still not to watch it a first. That's where the TiVo comes in and where I want both TiVo and the TiVo to focus their efforts. I want them to focus on providing only shows that are worth watching many, many times, not keeping track of shows I wasted my time in watching in the first place. I have no problem at all keeping track of those.

All that said, I must say you have provided the most compelling, but not ultimately convincing, argument I have seen to date.



mattack said:


> So I'd rather have *it* keep track of what shows I have seen before, and tell me that it was marked as watched.


I certainly would much rather watch a really good to excellent program a second ( or third, or fourth... or tenth) time than watch a mediocre to lousy one even once. That's what I rely on the TiVo to present to me: a group of programs ranging from superior to excellent, with few that are so mundane as to be forgettable, rather than try to keep track of the forgettable ones. Certainly there are many programs that are good enough to watch a second time that do not quite rise to the level of being good enough to archive, but I have no problem with the TiVo recording them, whether they ultimately get watched a second time or not.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

macjeepster said:


> Apparently there's a "good" way to use my TiVo and a "bad" way; who knew?


Anyone who stops to think. No matter what the tool there will always be "wrong" ways to use it, usually far, far more "wrong" ways than "right" ones. Frequently there is one and only one optimum way to use a tool.

Like most people, for years (decades in my case), I had been using a ketchup bottle - particularly a new one - incorrectly, holding it semi-vertically in one hand while pounding on it with the other. To be sure, it worked, but as almost anyone who has used a ketchup bottle in this manner can tell you, it is a slow and mildly frustrating experience, fraught with the danger of suddenly dumping a great blob of ketchup all over one's plate. Then one day my sister and I were eating at a restaurant, and once again I was beating on the bottom of the ketchup bottle. A pleasant young woman at the next table informed me I was doing it incorrectly, and demonstrated how holding the bottle horizontally and gently tapping the neck of the bottle on the side of the plate would induce the ketchup to flow freely but in an easily controlled manner onto the plate. Of course I felt a little foolish for having done it incorrectly for all those decades, but I didn't allow my ego to prevent me from instantly adopting her method.



macjeepster said:


> By clicking on "upcoming episodes" and making my own selections, seeking off-peak times and attempting to record episodes that were new to me, and balance the number of episodes on hand for several multi-season shows, I was engaging in "bad practices."


An inferior one, yes.

First of all, you are wasting a great deal of time browsing through the guide, which is not only unnecessary, but produces a less accurate and generally less desirable result, irrespective of what your ego or your habits may be telling you.

No offense, but you do not seem to have thought this through, or at least not in a properly generalized fashion. In de-selecting shows before they air vs. after they are recorded you are not attempting two different things, only one. Specifically, you are wanting to delete shows from the TiVo. This can be done pre-emptively, before the show is recorded in the first place, or it can be done reactively, after the show is recorded. Doing so pre-emptively might seem compelling, but upon inspection one can see it is an inferior means of handing it for several reasons.

1. It takes a great deal more time and effort than doing so after the program is recorded, easily minutes or collectively hours versus a matter of seconds, or perhaps no time whatsoever.

2. It is less accurate. It is far, far easier to make an error when the program is never recorded rather than after the fact. Deleting the show prior to recording it eliminates the possibility of changing one's mind or of un-deleting the show if it was deleted inadvertently. Deleting after the fact allows one days, or perhaps even weeks or months to change one's mind or realize one made an error.

3. It requires intervention and thus more work on the part of the user. One can simply do nothing whatsoever and allow the TiVo to delete the program in time. Of course if one wishes their TiVo to be as effective and efficient as possible, then one is well served to delete any programs one does not wish to watch, but even then it only takes a moment to delete programs, possibly even in bulk.



macjeepster said:


> I think when there's more than one logical way to accomplish something, good software lets each user decide which is "right."


That is just nonsense. There are virtually always myriad ways to accomplish any task. Trying to code for all of them would take a vast amount of time. Instead, the developer must concentrate on the very few, perhaps only one, method that fits well with the paradigm envisaged for the platform as a whole. Certainly allowing for variability within the platform may often be a good thing, but one must be judicious about such things.



macjeepster said:


> I think the TiVo should handle the tedious chore of track-keeping and let me do the choosing; the TiVo can provide key info to make better choices. Agredon's idea sounds great, and even simpler than I was envisioning:


Doing absolutely nothing whatsoever and letting the TiVo make the choices is a far more effective and efficient method, and the TiVo allows that right now. For the most part, I turn on the TV and press <play>. I let the TiVo handle the rest, and it does so far more effectively than I or any other human can. See my post above.


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