# 4K upscaling, bolt and a roamio, ect



## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

Since there is really nothing but Youtube, Amazon and Netflix with any 4k content at this point, what makes Bolt's upscaling superior to what i already have on my Samsung 4k TV's? IMO, out of all TV brands, Samsung seems to do the best job upscaling content to 4K and i am wondering if Tivo can beat it?

The 2015 Samsung Tizen OS is great IMO and I don't see any compelling reason to get a Bolt just to avoid pressing a button on my the TV remote instead of the Tivo remote which i really only use when i want a full QWERETY. I've used Harmony remotes for years, so mapping a button for Amazon on the TV vs the bolt is no big deal.

I dropped a 6tb into my Roamio as soon as i got it. It doesnt sound like that's an option with a Bolt and even if a 3tb 2.5" drive is a drop in, i question the reliability and longevity of using a 2.5" laptop drive 24/7 with 4 tuners recording something almost 24/7. 

Now if the Bolt actually can upscale cable content significantly better than what Samsung can i might preorder one today. I bought a mini thinking it was as good as the Roamio for my bedroom only to discover it's attached to a single tuner. I love the live buffer on every tuner, being viewed or not, and hate that the mini is stuck to a single tuner. I almost bought another Roamio for the bedroom and moved the mini to the guest room because i regain a feature i love and i could actually use 8 tuners. Nonetheless, i never got around to ordering a second lifetime roamio. 

So now i am thinking, if the Bolt can manage to beat out Samsung's upscaling AND i can link the Bolt and the Roamio together, a bolt might be worth it. I could move the roamio with 6tb of storage to the bedroom and regain the multiple live tuner buffers in that room. If i could stream from the Roamio to the Bolt in the living room to be upscaled and output to 4k in the living room with better results than just having Samsung upscale from the roamio I'd pre-order one right now. 

I can understand if you have a Vizio or something with horrid 4K upscaling this might make sense, but IMO Samsung's 4K upscaling is top of the line and I just bought two new 65" 4K Samsungs, one for the living room and one for the bedroom. 

I'll be the odd man out and say i like the look of the bolt. It seems like the curve would help a lot with cooling. I have 120mm USB powered fans cooling my Roamio in my entertainment center because it gets's warm in there and i figured it was a good idea to keep a 6TB drive as cool as possible.


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## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

After typing this whole thing out, i decided to just call Tivo and ask instead of waiting for people to get their bolt's delivered and know the answer to my questions. 

According to tech support, Bolt's upscaling to 4k isn't any better than Samsung, because it doesnt upscale at all. It just passes a 4k signal. So basically it's useless. It amounts to getting 4K netflix and Amazon from within the Tivo UI, but that's not worth $300 IMO. A harmony remote makes it easy and I really like Tizen anyways.

The commercial skipping feature is cool and i could see how once you're used to it, it might be hard to give up. Nonetheless, I've never used it and pressing skip a few times doesn't bother me at in the least at this point. 

So for me the Bolt is a major fail. I should have just bought another $300 lifetime Roamio while i had the chance and I'd have been way better off. 


Oh well, maybe all this info is already out there, but i didnt see it.. so maybe this thread will at least answer someone else's questions.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Except for the first-gen ones, all 4K TVs have built-in Netflix and Amazon in 4k anyway.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The only real advantages for the 4K support...

1) You can integrate 4K content into OnePass an TiVo search
2) You don't have to use a different remote
3) If cable companies ever actually start broadcasting 4K you'll be able to record it


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

That's the answer I was waiting for, whether it upscaled or not. I see no need to get one, my TV will upscale to 4K.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> The only real advantages for the 4K support...
> 
> 1) You can integrate 4K content into OnePass an TiVo search
> 2) You don't have to use a different remote
> 3) If cable companies ever actually start broadcasting 4K you'll be able to record it


Yeah, that's pretty weak unless cable companies start broadcasting 4K using HEVC. Then it's really interesting.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> The only real advantages for the 4K support...
> 
> 1) You can integrate 4K content into OnePass an TiVo search
> 2) You don't have to use a different remote
> 3) If cable companies ever actually start broadcasting 4K you'll be able to record it


Is 3) set in stone though? Has there been a determination on exactly what format possible future 4K broadcast content will be in? It seems awfully forward looking for TiVo to state it will record that content at this point in time.


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## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

I think the bolt is too little and too early. If they really wanted to release something now, it should upscale and do it really well. Otherwise it's not really an upgrade over a roamio.. if it wont take 6tb drives its a lateral move at best and considering the $300 roamio w/lifetime it's a downgrade when value plays any part of the equation. 


They should have charged $49 for a software upgrade to the roamio that brought the new commercial skipping tech and waited a year or 18 months for the 4K dust to settle. I mean HDR isnt standardized and 4K is so dynamic right now with things like Dolby vision and hdmi/hdcp changing so quickly. 

I'd have probably paid it for a software upgrade to skip commercials, but i'm definitely skipping the bolt. pressing a single button on the remote to get 4K Amazon/netflix isnt worth $300 and a monthly charge. With a Harmony I already have that feature, it works flawlessly and even switches inputs. 

Maybe they're discouraging lifetime plans on the Bolt because they're working on a real replacement for the roamio and know people would be pissed if they bought lifetime only to have what the Bolt should have been come out in a year. 

It really just seems like a half baked and underfeatured product. I cant seem to find a single compelling thing about it, besides how it looks and i might be the only person who even likes that. 

For such a seemingly greedy, cash hungry company, it seems like they really missed the boat.. or at least i'm going to miss the titanic and wait for another ship tp pull into port


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

The tivo can store and play 4k media files as well as stream them from a Plex server. At least most evidence points that way. All will become clear in a week or so.

The commercial skip requires manual marking of commercial breaks by tivo staff. This is the reason for the higher subscription costs and why its not likely to come to the Roamio line.

Its also got Moca and tivo stream functions built in where the Roamio did not. Other than the subscription costs, I actually think they got the new product right. Still needs some software development, but what Tivo ever released did not?


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## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

jcthorne said:


> The tivo can store and play 4k media files as well as stream them from a Plex server. At least most evidence points that way. All will become clear in a week or so.
> 
> T_he commercial skip requires manual marking of commercial breaks by tivo staff. This is the reason for the higher subscription costs and why its not likely to come to the Roamio line._


that increase in labor cost is exactly why it SHOULD come to the roamio as a paid software upgrade. I'd pay some amount of money for the upgraded software but it makes no sense to replace my lifetime roamio for a bolt lol. 


> Its also got Moca and tivo stream functions built in where the Roamio did not. Other than the subscription costs, I actually think they got the new product right. Still needs some software development, but what Tivo ever released did not?


I've had no problems with gig cat5e, works fine. It just seems like if you've got a roamio and need moca, you've already solved that problem and got what you needed. You've already paid what the new model provides so...

Streaming isnt important to me really. I have a slingbox, but for the amount of time i spend streaming video to my phone or tab S2 i just use, netflix/amazon and TV anywhere or whatever the cable company has.For some people its a good deal, but i dont really care about it.

Overall it just seems lateral at best to me. It does look cool. I think it'd look neat next to my curved TV


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## agh98 (Oct 10, 2004)

I compared the upscaling of the Bolt to my Vizio M70C-3 and I tend to think that the Bolt's output looks better. Has anyone else done a comparison with the M series Vizios?


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## portishead (Apr 22, 2008)

It's worth it for Plex direct play alone. No one knows how 4K will be broadcast. NASA is supposed to have a channel soon unfortunately TWC here doesn't have NASA channel. 

Also the UI is much faster, commercial skip is nice, integrated streaming is okay, but quality could use some work, the colors are all wrong. 

If it supports HEVC Main 10, you might be able to direct play HEVC files through Plex.


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## agh98 (Oct 10, 2004)

I believe it does, no? Has anyone confirmed this yet? I don't have anything ripped in H265 handy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

If i put my tivo pro in the bedroom and buy a bolt and put it in the living room ,if i transfer a recording from my pro to the bolt will i still be able to use commercial skip? or does it only work when you record the program on the bolt?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

celtic pride said:


> If i put my tivo pro in the bedroom and buy a bolt and put it in the living room ,if i transfer a recording from my pro to the bolt will i still be able to use commercial skip? or does it only work when you record the program on the bolt?


Currently SkipMode only works for programs recorded on the Bolt.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I downloaded some 4K HEVC, MKV sample videos. So far the two I've tried played on my Bolt. The Bolt downscaled them to 1080P output for playback since i don't have a 4K set.

EDIT: I forgot I was using pyTiVo. So I'm not even sure what PyTiVo does to these files.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

portishead said:


> It's worth it for Plex direct play alone. No one knows how 4K will be broadcast. NASA is supposed to have a channel soon unfortunately TWC here doesn't have NASA channel.
> 
> Also the UI is much faster, commercial skip is nice, integrated streaming is okay, but quality could use some work, the colors are all wrong.
> 
> If it supports HEVC Main 10, you might be able to direct play HEVC files through Plex.


NASA are going to stream their 4k content. Expect to see STBs like ROKU 4 support their 4k stream.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I downloaded some 4K HEVC, MKV sample videos. So far the two I've tried played on my Bolt. The Bolt downscaled them to 1080P output for playback since i don't have a 4K set.
> 
> EDIT: I forgot I was using pyTiVo. So I'm not even sure what PyTiVo does to these files.


It's probably recoding them. I think they would need to make a change to the code to allow HEVC to pass through.


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## portishead (Apr 22, 2008)

apw2607 said:


> NASA are going to stream their 4k content. Expect to see STBs like ROKU 4 support their 4k stream.


Their press release disagrees with you:

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/...t-non-commercial-uhd-channel-in-north-america


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## faulkton (Aug 14, 2015)

anyone else care to contribute?


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