# TiVo Bolt +



## Kabookie

What does anyone know about the new Bolt + that will be introduced at 2016 CEDIA? I'm thinking that it will support HDR and Dolby Atmos. Would like to use to stream movies from VUDU since they do have some 4k with Dolby Atmos and don't think it will work with current unit.


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## TrackZ

Per my other post, I'd love to see this, but it doesn't really take another box. The existing Bolt should be able to support those formats already with proper updates to the HDMI system and apps.


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## Kabookie

Can you point me to your other thread or post? Also I contacted Tivo and they said they do not support HDR as of yet. This person was not all that up on this subject so not sure if that is true or not. Have you or anyone streamed 4k content from Vudu and got ATMOS sound?


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## TrackZ

Kabookie said:


> Can you point me to your other thread or post? Also I contacted Tivo and they said they do not support HDR as of yet. This person was not all that up on this subject so not sure if that is true or not. Have you or anyone streamed 4k content from Vudu and got ATMOS sound?


I was posting (aka lamenting) the lack of UHD and HDR updates on the Bolt here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542620

The Bolt should have this stuff already or at least have a committed road map to getting it given new UHD and HDR devices are starting to come out. At least if TiVo wants the box to be competitive against the Xbox One S and upcoming Roku, Fire TV, and other players.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Kabookie, where did you hear about a Bolt +? That would be big welcomed news for this community.

Tivo has confirmed the Bolt will get HDR with an update, but no time was given. If there's something new chances are it'll have it or eventually get it too.


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## TrackZ

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo has confirmed the Bolt will get HDR with an update, but no time was given.


When was this?


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## BigJimOutlaw

TrackZ said:


> When was this?


Once from Margret shortly after the Bolt's release, and again in a recent article about their 4K platform for MSOs. It indicated Bolt would get it too.


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## TrackZ

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Once from Margret, and again in an article about their 4K platform for MSOs.


Must be this?
http://www.multichannel.com/blog/ba...-working-mso-optimized-4k-hdr-platform/405047

I missed this, although I have paid less attention to TiVo news in the last few months. That's hopeful. I would really like to continue using my TiVo for streaming Amazon, Netflix, and so on, but those apps needs UHD HDR on the box ASAP.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Yep that would be the article.


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## mswlogo

My understanding is a lot of services will be using Dolby Vision and Dobly Vision requires a chip.


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## TrackZ

mswlogo said:


> My understanding is a lot of services will be using Dolby Vision and Dobly Vision requires a chip.


The Bolt as is cannot do Dolby Vision given the hardware requirements for DV. It should be able to do HDR10 with an HDMI 2.0a update though.

VUDU is DV only currently. Amazon and Netflix both are supporting HDR10 and DV though.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Yeah, Tivo will probably use HDR10 to make it easy.

So whichever services offer HDR10, Tivo may be compatible with.


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## Dan203

TiVo has confirmed that they will be announcing some sort of "Bolt Pro" at CEDIA on 9/15....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10970076#post10970076


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## Kabookie

Here is what I got about 3 weeks ago and have found out no more info since. Just started to look some more and found this forum. I would be new to TiVo so had no reason to look. I've been a long time Charter customer with their junky hardware and was looking for a set box the got rid of their box, streamed VUDU and did 4K. BUt then found out the the current box does 4K but not HDR or Dolby Atmos or Vision. So I'm hopefull this bolt + will do the trick.


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## TrackZ

Kabookie said:


> Here is what I got about 3 weeks ago and have found out no more info since. Just started to look some more and found this forum. I would be new to TiVo so had no reason to look. I've been a long time Charter customer with their junky hardware and was looking for a set box the got rid of their box, streamed VUDU and did 4K. BUt then found out the the current box does 4K but not HDR or Dolby Atmos or Vision. So I'm hopefull this bolt + will do the trick.
> View attachment 26147
> 
> 
> View attachment 26148


I'll upgrade my Bolt to a Bolt+ in a heartbeat if it enables HDR, Atmos, and such on a wider array of apps vs. the current Bolt. Crossing my fingers.

I had been thinking I would use the new Xbox One S as my main, singular machine, but I'm not feeling all the setup required and lack of features for HDHomePrime DVR. HDMI pass through on the Xbox is too limited as well to use it that way. Plus I think I'll game on my PC more anyway.

All I need is TiVo to round out the current apps and video/audio quality.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Kabookie said:


> Here is what I got about 3 weeks ago and have found out no more info since. Just started to look some more and found this forum. I would be new to TiVo so had no reason to look. I've been a long time Charter customer with their junky hardware and was looking for a set box the got rid of their box, streamed VUDU and did 4K. BUt then found out the the current box does 4K but not HDR or Dolby Atmos or Vision. So I'm hopefull this bolt + will do the trick.
> View attachment 26147
> 
> 
> View attachment 26148


Pretty big news. We didn't know this existed until today. lol. They haven't shared any specifications. But now we have a confirmation of its shape and color. (A lot of people didn't like the arc or the white.)


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## tatergator1

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Pretty big news. We didn't know this existed until today. lol. They haven't shared any specifications. But now we have a confirmation of it's shape and color. (A lot of people didn't like the arc or the white.)


Looks like someone at Cedia messed up. If you look at the finalist list now, it's just a generic Tivo Logo and only mentions of Tivo, Inc.


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## thyname

Wow! First time I saw that picture on the Bolt Pro. I personally don't mind the shape (which appears to remain intact), or the color in white, although black is more classy.


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## DevdogAZ

I'll be surprised if the new Bolt "Pro" has that same curved shape. That's just not conducive to the pro install market.


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## thyname

DevdogAZ said:


> I'll be surprised if the new Bolt "Pro" has that same curved shape. That's just not conducive to the pro install market.


I was surprised too on the picture, as I also expected a "traditional " shape for rack mount and pro install. Maybe it is just a made-up picture from CEDIA, just to illustrate a new hypothetical Bolt Plus product?


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## foghorn2

Kabookie said:


> Here is what I got about 3 weeks ago and have found out no more info since. Just started to look some more and found this forum. I would be new to TiVo so had no reason to look. I've been a long time Charter customer with their junky hardware and was looking for a set box the got rid of their box, streamed VUDU and did 4K. BUt then found out the the current box does 4K but not HDR or Dolby Atmos or Vision. So I'm hopefull this bolt + will do the trick.
> View attachment 26147
> 
> 
> View attachment 26148


Wow, a long curved black bolt, just what the wife ordered


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## Kabookie

I just hope it has all the features that have been discussed and available in the next couple of months if not sooner - surely before Xmas. I really can't think of any reason why it will not have these features since what else would they do except maybe more storage or offer black now - I don't think so. They need to keep up by including support for HDR, Dolby Atmos and Vision is the next step. 

Actually I've been waiting to make this move from my Kuro 60" for a couple of years but wanted HDMI 2.0a, Dolby Atmos and OLED 4k to have a little time to mature. This HDR thing is quite noticeable and is a big bonus. So just got in a LG 65" OLED, Anthem AVM60 and a bunch of Parasound amps but need the TiVo bolt + to complete the setup. Don't really have any feel on the shape as it will be on a shelf by itself but sure do like the black color.


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## thyname

foghorn2 said:


> Wow, a long curved black bolt, just what the wife ordered


At first read, that did not sound quite right 😂😂😂


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## Dan203

Kabookie said:


> I really can't think of any reason why it will not have these features since what else would they do except maybe more storage or offer black now - I don't think so.


6 tuners is the big one for cable users who currently have a Roamio Plus/Pro unit.

Would be AWESOME if it could integrate both cable and OTA like the old 2 tuner units could! (instead of being either or)


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## Kabookie

Dan203 said:


> 6 tuners is the big one for cable users who currently have a Roamio Plus/Pro unit.
> 
> Would be AWESOME if it could integrate both cable and OTA like the old 2 tuner units could! (instead of being either or)


Maybe but would it not be better to keep up with with technology and support these new standards with the capability that they have now? I think to do that they need to do more then a software upgrade there needs to be hardware so a new box is needed....we will see soon.


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## thyname

Kabookie said:


> Maybe but would it not be better to keep up with with technology and support these new standards with the capability that they have now? I think to do that they need to do more then a software upgrade there needs to be hardware so a new box is needed....we will see soon.


I think that provisioning for HDR10 via transitioning from HDMI 2.0 to 2.0a can be achieved via a firmware update. Not so for Dolby Vision, which requires new chip.

As far as I know, no broadcast tv has Dolby Atmos. Isn't that a matter of programming rather than a port issue on TiVo box?


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## TrackZ

More tuners and storage in the same form factor in black would make for a very weak "Pro" IMO. I'd appreciate a more powerful CPU for speedier menus and loading with other improvements.

They need to do something more expansive. I really hope they deliver and give me a reason to want to buy it over my current Bolt. This box or associated firmware updates to the existing Bolt will determine my system setup and usage for a while.

Regarding the Atmos, VUDU streams in Atmos. I expect Netflix and Amazon will soon also. Some of the Olympic content was also in Atmos.

If they actually delivered HDR via Dolby Vision (in addition to HDR 10) and supported it in VUDU, Amazon, and Netflix apps, that would be a massive home run, out of the park, punch in the face to every other device out there. That would be amazing.


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## ct1

foghorn2 said:


> Wow, a long curved black bolt, just what the wife ordered





thyname said:


> At first read, that did not sound quite right 😂😂😂


Once you go... Nevermind..


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## Dan203

Maybe that picture is a minor upgrade to the existing Bolt and the "Plus" will be a completely different box.


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## tivoyahoo

tatergator1 said:


> Looks like someone at Cedia messed up. If you look at the finalist list now, it's just a generic Tivo Logo and only mentions of Tivo, Inc.


the name "BOLT+" hasn't been redacted here:
http://www.strata-gee.com/cedia-finalists-best-new-product/


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## tivoyahoo

should we be looking at the Virgin media 4k tivo powered box for clues as to the bolt+?
https://recombu.com/digital/article/virgin-media-4k-tivo-box-uhd-tv-teaser-leak-leaked-image-sky-q#

are the details out on whether that box offers hdr?


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## NashGuy

TrackZ said:


> More tuners and storage in the same form factor in black would make for a very weak "Pro" IMO. I'd appreciate a more powerful CPU for speedier menus and loading with other improvements.
> 
> They need to do something more expansive. I really hope they deliver and give me a reason to want to buy it over my current Bolt. This box or associated firmware updates to the existing Bolt will determine my system setup and usage for a while.
> 
> Regarding the Atmos, VUDU streams in Atmos. I expect Netflix and Amazon will soon also. Some of the Olympic content was also in Atmos.
> 
> If they actually delivered HDR via Dolby Vision (in addition to HDR 10) and supported it in VUDU, Amazon, and Netflix apps, that would be a massive home run, out of the park, punch in the face to every other device out there. That would be amazing.


I would expect to see HDR support in the upcoming Bolt+ (along with a coinciding firmware update for the existing Bolt to provide HDR support). Not sure about Dolby Vision though; only certain UHD HDR TVs can make use of it, while HDR10 is more widely supported. (Are there currently any standalone streaming devices that pass through Dolby Vision HDR streams or are those apps only built into TVs that can decode Dolby Vision?)

As for Atmos audio, that's pretty bleeding edge and (like HDR), only something that pertains to high-end streaming, not broadcast TV. And TiVo has never been a leader in streaming solutions, so I wouldn't get your hopes up on that. I'm pretty sure VUDU is the only streaming provider that currently supports Atmos and, even 10 months after the intro of the Bolt, the VUDU app for TiVo still doesn't even offer UHD 4K video...


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## BigJimOutlaw

Virgin hasn't said much about specs of their box either. Tivo offers a "hardware porting kit" to their hardware partners (Pace, Arris, Evolution Digital, etc). Features like HDR are available (or will be) and it's up to them and the cable companies to take advantage of it if they choose. There's no excuse to not include HDR at this point.

All that being said, Tivo has confirmed HDR (most likely HDR10) is coming for us. If not immediately on the Bolt+ release, then with an update at some point. Original Bolt is getting it too.


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## TrackZ

Atmos really isn't a big deal to implement nor should it require new hardware. Atmos is an extension on top of the Dolby Digital Plus streaming apps use, which the Bolt can already output.


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## TWinbrook46636

Excerpts via Zatznotfunny from the Q&A session last year...

"[] the Bolt product was not really designed for the TiVo enthusiast. [] Bolt is low on Tuners, light on storage, _doesnt fit into your racks_ and really doesnt offer this group much more than 4K and software features you figure well roll-down anyway. [] There will be no Pro line product that has any fewer than 6 tuners or storage sizes that dont excite you._ We probably couldve delivered a BOLT with two more tuners and a larger HDD and called it a family, but we knew that the marketand especially our loyalistsdeserved much more_. [] we already have a roadmap plan to bring you something youll like way better in 2016."

I'm guessing with the Rovi merger these plans were scrapped. Then again it does appear that it will be called the Bolt+ (not Bolt Pro) so maybe there will be a true Pro model one day. I'm not holding my breath though. We're probably lucky to get this all things considered.


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## NashGuy

TWinbrook46636 said:


> I'm guessing with the Rovi merger these plans were scrapped. Then again it does appear that it will be called the Bolt+ (not Bolt Pro) so maybe there will be a true Pro model one day. I'm not holding my breath though. We're probably lucky to get this all things considered.


We saw something similar last year. Based on leaks from TiVo.com as well as comments from Ira's first chat here on TCF, we were expecting the "TiVo Bolt Aereo Edition," an OTA-only version of the Bolt. Instead, TiVo downgraded and delayed their OTA retail plans and came out with the 1TB Roamio OTA, a slightly improved rehash of an earlier product. Of course, that decision was made prior to the Rovi merger announcement, so Rovi likely had nothing to do with it.

And maybe Rovi has nothing to do with the Bolt+ and whatever else may be announced at CEDIA next month. Keep in mind that the merger isn't expected to even be completed until sometime in Sept. Seems that, in general, TiVo is a bit ambivalent about their retail efforts -- they say they remain committed to it and they definitely have developed new products over the past couple of years but at the same time they're trying not to risk too much on what appears to be a dwindling business line.

I predict that the Bolt+ will be the last CableCARD-equipped DVR that TiVo ever releases to the retail market. Hopefully it's a good one that satisfies longtime TiVo fans.


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## spaldingclan

the thing that sucks about Vudu is that for now they ONLY support DolbyVision and DO NOT support HDR10...which means the old school Bolt will never be able to do DV...


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## aaronwt

Kabookie said:


> What does anyone know about the new Bolt + that will be introduced at 2016 CEDIA? I'm thinking that it will support HDR and Dolby Atmos. Would like to use to stream movies from VUDU since they do have some 4k with Dolby Atmos and don't think it will work with current unit.


The current Bolt should already support Atmos(as well a s other TiVos). Since it already bitstreams. So with the few Vudu HDX titles that have Atmos, it should work with them.

Of course access to the Vudu UHD titles are another issue.


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## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> The current Bolt should already support Atmos(as well a s other TiVos). Since it already bitstreams. So with the few Vudu HDX titles that have Atmos, it should work with them.
> 
> Of course access to the Vudu UHD titles are another issue.


This is something I was wondering about -- if it's merely a matter of bitstreaming the audio to your receiver for it to decode, is there any kind of additional hardware or software requirement (apart from the VUDU app itself) that would be needed from TiVo? Now, that said, being able to access titles with Atmos audio may require an updated version of the VUDU app -- can the current VUDU app for the Bolt access Atmos-encoded titles? (I had assumed that Atmos would be an option only on UHD titles and therefore restricted to a version of the VUDU app that offers UHD but maybe that's not true.)


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## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> This is something I was wondering about -- if it's merely a matter of bitstreaming the audio to your receiver for it to decode, is there any kind of additional hardware or software requirement (apart from the VUDU app itself) that would be needed from TiVo? Now, that said, being able to access titles with Atmos audio may require an updated version of the VUDU app -- can the current VUDU app for the Bolt access Atmos-encoded titles? (I had assumed that Atmos would be an option only on UHD titles and therefore restricted to a version of the VUDU app that offers UHD but maybe that's not true.)


The current Vudu app can access the few HDX titles with Atmos(I have several of the test Atmos titles). But it doesn't have access to the Vudu UHD titles yet. And that is the bulk of Vudu content that has access to the Dolby Atmos tracks.


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## foghorn2

tivoyahoo said:


> should we be looking at the Virgin media 4k tivo powered box for clues as to the bolt+?
> https://recombu.com/digital/article/virgin-media-4k-tivo-box-uhd-tv-teaser-leak-leaked-image-sky-q#
> 
> are the details out on whether that box offers hdr?


The current bolt looks better than that box!


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## HarperVision

foghorn2 said:


> The current bolt looks better than that box!


As does the Bolt+!


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## davezatz

TWinbrook46636 said:


> Excerpts via Zatznotfunny from the Q&A session last year...
> 
> "[] the Bolt product was not really designed for the TiVo enthusiast. [] Bolt is low on Tuners, light on storage, _doesnt fit into your racks_ and really doesnt offer this group much more than 4K and software features you figure well roll-down anyway. [] There will be no Pro line product that has any fewer than 6 tuners or storage sizes that dont excite you._ We probably couldve delivered a BOLT with two more tuners and a larger HDD and called it a family, but we knew that the marketand especially our loyalistsdeserved much more_. [] we already have a roadmap plan to bring you something youll like way better in 2016."


Ha, I should read my own site. Totally forgot those details. So I guessing they decided the enthusiast crowd is too small and/or the work required to product something entirely different isn't cost effective... as it appears they're doing exactly what they said they wouldn't. _Unless a Plus *and *Pro will be announced at CEDIA but we've only heard about one?_

Still trying to wrap my brain around whatever this non-DVR service/feature/product will be... Hm.


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## Chris Blount

As stated before. The current Bolt does output Dolby Atmos. I have an Atmos System and verified that using the Vudu app.


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## NashGuy

davezatz said:


> Still trying to wrap my brain around whatever this non-DVR service/feature/product will be... Hm.


Yeah, me too. Here again is how Ira responded last week to my question about it:
_
In order to grow, we definitely want to break the trajectory of traditional DVR. We do expect to announce something around CES in January though I don't think we're going to try to compete with the streamers directly. Most likely, the announcement will be in the form of a public beta -- which I have no doubt we will ask TCF members to participate in._

Has TiVo ever done a public beta in the past for new hardware? I'm doubtful that a new "product," i.e. hardware, is what he's talking about. So then we're talking about something that's software and/or service based?

Also, he says it won't compete with streamers like Roku "directly". So apparently whatever this is somehow involves streaming.

I'm wondering if TiVo is finally taking my longstanding advice to move from HTML5-based apps to open source Android-based apps that would allow developers to port their existing Fire TV and/or Android TV apps to TiVo with little or even no code tweaking. Such a move, of course, would require an update to the TiVo system software as well as installation of the new Android-based apps. I could certainly see TiVo wanting a public beta of that whole situation before rolling it out to everyone.

Other than something along those lines, the only other thing I can think of is perhaps TiVo is revamping parts of their system UI that involve streaming, e.g. the way apps and OnePass are presented on-screen. But that doesn't seem like such a big deal and I don't know that TiVo would recruit TCF folks for a public beta of it...


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## tivoyahoo

NashGuy said:


> I could certainly see TiVo wanting a public beta of that whole situation before rolling it out to everyone.


I agree and hope that is the case that they start taking such an approach. and I think the rovi guide data could have gone to a public beta stage as an added step in the transition. It's not like the rovi guide data is some secret sauce - it's out there on tvguide.com. but maybe a public beta would have have been too big and difficult to manage separately instead of moving the masses in a relatively short time period. hence why the current stage of guide data feels like a public beta test where there will be lots of issues and kinks to work out, but hopefully minor. in other words, more an issue of quantity than degree.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Significant enough "to grow", and apparently a software/service.

Ira said they don't want to be a content provider, but would they want to partner with one, like Comcast's IPTV service?

Or maybe I'm thinking too big and there's something else Rovi supplies? They seem to also supply data for music, video games, books, etc.


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## NashGuy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Ira said they don't want to be a content provider, but would they want to partner with one, like Comcast's IPTV service?


Based on Ira's answer to a different Q, it sounds more to me like they're just interested in getting more streaming apps (stuff like Sling TV, PS Vue, HBO Now, etc.) on TiVo as opposed to partnering with a service and integrating it into the regular TiVo UI.

_While we have no current plans to get into the programming business, we are absolutely engaged with these companies. We fully understand the benefits of the integration and are definitely miffed that CM beat us on SlingTV. (FWIW -- Dish/Echostar, the owners of SlingTV actually make the CM hardware so they did have the inside track.) *Our aim is that the TiVo platform support all key streaming services.* As you point out, we are not executing well enough here. In addition to SlingTV, we also don't have HBONow, and many others._


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## aaronwt

davezatz said:


> Ha, I should read my own site. Totally forgot those details. So I guessing they decided the enthusiast crowd is too small and/or the work required to product something entirely different isn't cost effective... as it appears they're doing exactly what they said they wouldn't. _Unless a Plus *and *Pro will be announced at CEDIA but we've only heard about one?_
> 
> Still trying to wrap my brain around whatever this non-DVR service/feature/product will be... Hm.


I can't see them repeating that mistake of a plus and pro version.


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## HarperVision

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Significant enough "to grow", and apparently a software/service.
> 
> *Ira said they don't want to be a content provider, but would they want to partner with one, like Comcast's IPTV service?*
> 
> Or maybe I'm thinking too big and there's something else Rovi supplies? They seem to also supply data for music, video games, books, etc.


God I certainly hope not! WoooHoooo, 1080i to 720p compressed-to-Hell video. 

I do believe it's going to be a streaming service though. With the timing of it, I'm thinking maybe with the new DirecTV Now service, considering they've worked with them before too and I'm sure DirecTV wants as many client boxes as possible early in their launch. Especially through TiVo since its customers (us) have inroads with and are normally cable customers, which could be stolen away from the likes of Comcast.


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## NashGuy

HarperVision said:


> God I certainly hope not! WoooHoooo, 1080i to 720p compressed-to-Hell video.
> 
> I do believe it's going to be a streaming service though. With the timing of it, I'm thinking maybe with the new DirecTV Now service, considering they've worked with them before too and I'm sure DirecTV wants as many client boxes as possible early in their launch. Especially through TiVo since its customers (us) have inroads with and are normally cable customers, which could be stolen away from the likes of Comcast.


Yeah, DirecTV Now is supposed to launch before year-end. I guess it could be that. But if it comes to TiVo, I really think it will simply be as an individual app, just like Sling TV and PS Vue are apps on various devices. Not sure why that would require beta testing on TiVo's part. (If anything, I'd think AT&T would be the ones to line up beta testers for the DirecTV Now app.)

As for Comcast's skinny-bundle IPTV service, "Stream TV," I'm pretty sure it will only be available to customers who have Comcast internet, so it won't be a nationwide service. Perhaps Comcast will provide access to it through the same X1 app that they're currently developing for Roku, Samsung smart TVs, and Android TV. Not sure. As far as I know, in the few markets where they've rolled it out, it still isn't available through any TV-connected devices at all, just computers and mobile devices.


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## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, DirecTV Now is supposed to launch before year-end. I guess it could be that. But if it comes to TiVo, I really think it will simply be as an individual app, just like Sling TV and PS Vue are apps on various devices. Not sure why that would require beta testing on TiVo's part. (If anything, I'd think AT&T would be the ones to line up beta testers for the DirecTV Now app.)............


Maybe they ARE trying to integrate it into the guide and UI, which is why they would need beta testers?


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## NashGuy

HarperVision said:


> Maybe they ARE trying to integrate it into the guide and UI, which is why they would need beta testers?


Hope springs eternal. I guess it's possible but keep in mind that he began his answer to your Q about this with "we have no current plans to get into the programming business" and then went on to talk about supporting a greater number of apps.

And I just don't see why AT&T would want to even go that route. Their DirecTV Now packages will include both locals and cable channels along with on-demand and/or cloud DVR. So it doesn't even need to be integrated with OTA channels from the TiVo. I just don't see it happening...


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## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Hope springs eternal. I guess it's possible but keep in mind that he began his answer to your Q about this with "we have no current plans to get into the programming business" and then went on to talk about supporting a greater number of apps.....


Well, they wouldn't be in the programming business, they would be contracting out to one....AT&T's DirecTV Now. He was talking about them not wanting to be the ones to go to the content owners to create a TiVo streaming package that competes with SlingTV, Vue, DTV Now, etc.



NashGuy said:


> .......And I just don't see why AT&T would want to even go that route. Their DirecTV Now packages will include both locals and cable channels along with on-demand and/or cloud DVR. So it doesn't even need to be integrated with OTA channels from the TiVo. I just don't see it happening...


You're probably right there, but like you said..._"Hope springs eternal"_. 

It'll probably be an app if it comes.


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## rainwater

davezatz said:


> Still trying to wrap my brain around whatever this non-DVR service/feature/product will be... Hm.


I believe they said it wasn't a traditional DVR. It could be the evolution of the cloud service they have been talking about for years.


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## HarperVision

rainwater said:


> I believe they said it wasn't a traditional DVR. It could be the *evolution* of the cloud service they have been talking about for years.


As in....."*Evolution* Digital", right NashGuy?


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## TonyD79

HarperVision said:


> Maybe they ARE trying to integrate it into the guide and UI, which is why they would need beta testers?


That would be very nice. I believe the streaming services use tiles (yuck) rather than guides.


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## idksmy

Dan203 said:


> Would be AWESOME if it could integrate both cable and OTA like the old 2 tuner units could! (instead of being either or)


Do you think Tivo's MSO customers would squawk at this?


----------



## Dan203

idksmy said:


> Do you think Tivo's MSO customers would squawk at this?


I doubt their MSO customers care at all what they do for retail.


----------



## NashGuy

HarperVision said:


> As in....."*Evolution* Digital", right NashGuy?


Suuuure. Except that TiVo's cloud DVR plans have always been about a product/service they could offer to MSOs (like with the Evolution Digital eBox that's already being deployed by WOW!), not to retail customers.

So I don't think cloud DVR functionality is what Ira was referring to as the thing to be announced at CES and publicly beta tested.


----------



## tivoyahoo

NashGuy said:


> a product/service they could offer to MSOs (like with the Evolution Digital eBox that's already being deployed by WOW!), not to retail customers.


makes sense. interesting box:
https://evolutiondigital.com/ebox-ip-hybrid-stb/
"supports Rovi Fan TV platform or TiVo® Experience, and enables Universal Search across all content libraries."
and with linear + ott integrated focus


----------



## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Suuuure. Except that TiVo's cloud DVR plans have always been about a product/service they could offer to MSOs (like with the Evolution Digital eBox that's already being deployed by WOW!), not to retail customers.
> 
> So I don't think cloud DVR functionality is what Ira was referring to as the thing to be announced at CES and publicly beta tested.


 :up:

Why couldn't they offer a contracted OTT service to retail clients? All he said was is that TiVo wasn't interested in becoming a programmer, and they wouldn't be, the OTT service would be, just as Comcast, TWC, Cox, Charter, etc. is on the linear cable side. There's really no reason why they couldn't.


----------



## NashGuy

HarperVision said:


> :up:
> 
> Why couldn't they offer a contracted OTT service to retail clients? All he said was is that TiVo wasn't interested in becoming a programmer, and they wouldn't be, the OTT service would be, just as Comcast, TWC, Cox, Charter, etc. is on the linear cable side. There's really no reason why they couldn't.


You're right -- there's no reason it absolutely couldn't happen (i.e. it's technically possible). I just think that, given the business realities that exist, both for the newly merged TiVo/Rovi as well as any of the current or soon-to-arrive OTT live cable TV services (Sling TV, PS Vue, DirecTV Now, YouTube Unplugged, Hulu's live TV service), that it doesn't make sense for either party. From the perspective of the OTT services, why bother making a second "TiVo-fied" version of your service exclusively for retail TiVo devices (which aren't exactly selling like hotcakes, mind you)? From TiVo's perspective, how many extra Bolts (with monthly service) and/or Roamio OTA units do they think that whole project (which would likely require a good bit of development time) would help them sell?

Here's a scenario I could realistically imagine happening though. Perhaps there's yet another OTT live cable TV service in the early stages of formation. Imagine that they're not affiliated with a major existing brand (unlike DirecTV, Hulu, etc.). Rather than designing their UI from scratch, they turn to TiVo and license some patents from them, for their UI (or aspects of it), etc., along with Rovi program guide info and other entertainment metadata. They hope that having the TiVo name attached to their service ("VidStream powered by TiVo") will give them a marketing boost, help differentiate them from all their competitors and draw attention to their cloud DVR features (since "TiVo" is synonymous with "DVR"). But, of course, like their competitors, they're going to roll their service out as an app that exists on all the platforms already owned by the potential subscribers: Apple, Android, Roku, etc.

Honestly, something along those lines is really how I could see TiVo continuing on in the world of retail consumer products a few years from now should they decide to pull out of actually producing and selling retail hardware. TiVo's future all around, I suspect, lies in software/UI design, data services, and patent licensing.


----------



## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> Here's a scenario I could realistically imagine happening though. Perhaps there's yet another OTT live cable TV service in the early stages of formation. Imagine that they're not affiliated with a major existing brand (unlike DirecTV, Hulu, etc.). Rather than designing their UI from scratch, they turn to TiVo and license some patents from them, for their UI (or aspects of it), etc., along with Rovi program guide info and other entertainment metadata. They hope that having the TiVo name attached to their service ("VidStream powered by TiVo") will give them a marketing boost, help differentiate them from all their competitors and draw attention to their cloud DVR features (since "TiVo" is synonymous with "DVR"). But, of course, like their competitors, they're going to roll their service out as an app that exists on all the platforms already owned by the potential subscribers: Apple, Android, Roku, etc.


No doubt such a service would be available on other devices, but what if a TiVo could integrate the service's cloud DVR directly into the hardware platform so that your My Sows showed an integrated list of OTA recordings and cloud DVR "recordings" and either could be chosen to be played at any time with full trick play functionality? That would give an edge to the TiVo hardware for people looking to record OTA content but who still want to have access to some cable channels via this OTT service. This is how TiVo survives long term after cable screws us and makes it so we have to use their app to access their channel.

Now whether or not such a service exists I have no idea. I've been hoping that TiVo was developing their own skinny bundle service like this, but Ira's comments seem to rule that out. So a partner is their only hope now.


----------



## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> You're right -- there's no reason it absolutely couldn't happen (i.e. it's technically possible). I just think that, given the business realities that exist, both for the newly merged TiVo/Rovi as well as any of the current or soon-to-arrive OTT live cable TV services (Sling TV, PS Vue, DirecTV Now, YouTube Unplugged, Hulu's live TV service), that it doesn't make sense for either party. From the perspective of the OTT services, why bother making a second "TiVo-fied" version of your service exclusively for retail TiVo devices (which aren't exactly selling like hotcakes, mind you)? From TiVo's perspective, how many extra Bolts (with monthly service) and/or Roamio OTA units do they think that whole project (which would likely require a good bit of development time) would help them sell?
> 
> Here's a scenario I could realistically imagine happening though. Perhaps there's yet another OTT live cable TV service in the early stages of formation. Imagine that they're not affiliated with a major existing brand (unlike DirecTV, Hulu, etc.). Rather than designing their UI from scratch, they turn to TiVo and license some patents from them, for their UI (or aspects of it), etc., along with Rovi program guide info and other entertainment metadata. They hope that having the TiVo name attached to their service ("VidStream powered by TiVo") will give them a marketing boost, help differentiate them from all their competitors and draw attention to their cloud DVR features (since "TiVo" is synonymous with "DVR"). But, of course, like their competitors, they're going to roll their service out as an app that exists on all the platforms already owned by the potential subscribers: Apple, Android, Roku, etc.
> 
> Honestly, something along those lines is really how I could see TiVo continuing on in the world of retail consumer products a few years from now should they decide to pull out of actually producing and selling retail hardware. TiVo's future all around, I suspect, lies in software/UI design, data services, and patent licensing.





Dan203 said:


> No doubt such a service would be available on other devices, but what if a TiVo could integrate the service's cloud DVR directly into the hardware platform so that your *My Sows* showed an integrated list of OTA recordings and cloud DVR "recordings" and either could be chosen to be played at any time with full trick play functionality? That would give an edge to the TiVo hardware for people looking to record OTA content but who still want to have access to some cable channels via this OTT service. This is how TiVo survives long term after cable screws us and makes it so we have to use their app to access their channel.
> 
> Now whether or not such a service exists I have no idea. I've been hoping that TiVo was developing their own skinny bundle service like this, but Ira's comments seem to rule that out. So a partner is their only hope now.


Thanks for explaining like I never could, Dan. Agreed!

I take it this isn't what you meant by *"My Sows"*, right? 


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## foghorn2

Sows and Hoes.


----------



## HarperVision

......and Shows!


----------



## TonyD79

HarperVision said:


> Thanks for explaining like I never could, Dan. Agreed!
> 
> I take it this isn't what you meant by *"My Sows"*, right?
> 
> 
> __
> Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
> Show Content


Turns "binging" into just going hog wild!


----------



## ilovedvrs

September 13-17 long time to wait


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> No doubt such a service would be available on other devices, but what if a TiVo could integrate the service's cloud DVR directly into the hardware platform so that your My Sows showed an integrated list of OTA recordings and cloud DVR "recordings" and either could be chosen to be played at any time with full trick play functionality? That would give an edge to the TiVo hardware for people looking to record OTA content but who still want to have access to some cable channels via this OTT service. This is how TiVo survives long term after cable screws us and makes it so we have to use their app to access their channel.
> 
> Now whether or not such a service exists I have no idea. I've been hoping that TiVo was developing their own skinny bundle service like this, but Ira's comments seem to rule that out. So a partner is their only hope now.


First off, I'ma skip the sows jokes 'cause that's already been covered. (Stay away from a thread for an hour and you miss so much! ;-)

Yeah, what you propose could happen as part of the little imaginary scenario I sketched out. I had thought about that but didn't bother writing it out -- I was pretty sure Harper or you would respond along those lines anyhow!

But for that to happen, I think we have to assume that the streaming cable OTT service doesn't include live feeds of the major broadcast nets. The reason I say that is that there has to be *some* rationale why a consumer would pay extra money for TiVo hardware + service (whether a monthly fee or upfront lifetime service cost like the current Roamio OTA). So in this scenario, the consumer is choosing to forego more popular and cheaper streamers like Roku ($50 stick) or Apple TV ($129 box), all of which also offer this hypothetical new OTT app with a TiVo UI and cloud DVR. Instead, the consumer would pay more money for an actual TiVo DVR (which is, generally speaking, a second-rate streamer) so that he could put up an antenna and integrate both local OTA channels with hard-drive based DVR and the streaming OTT cable channels with cloud DVR, all in the same box and UI. I agree with you guys that it would be a pretty slick product and, if I still cared much about non-premium cable channels, I'd be excited about it.

But how many others would be excited enough about it to buy it? Look, I do think if TiVo were to update, say, the current Roamio OTA and/or Bolt to incorporate such a streaming service as outlined above, it would provide a little boost to unit sales among cord-cutters (or cord-shavers, or whatever you wanna call us). Would it increase revenue enough to cover developmental and marketing costs and make an appreciable improvement in the overall bottom line of this newly merged company that has bigger fish to fry than consumer retail devices? I'm not so sure. Furthermore, I don't really see how those efforts could really be re-purposed for use in TiVo's MSO platforms. Remember, TiVo has stated that the rationale for their retail efforts is essentially to develop and test technology that they can then deploy in their growing MSO business, which is their real future.

The natural bias among lots of folks on TCF, understandably, is to think in terms of what we as retail consumers would like to see TiVo do. I guess I'm more interested in what I think TiVo actually _will_ do, which is simply licensing their IP (i.e. milking their patents) and data services.


----------



## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> First off, I'ma skip the sows jokes 'cause that's already been covered. (Stay away from a thread for an hour and you miss so much! ;-)
> 
> ........ So in this scenario, the consumer is choosing to forego more popular and cheaper streamers like Roku ($50 stick) or Apple TV ($129 box), all of which also offer this hypothetical new OTT app with a TiVo UI and cloud DVR. Instead, the consumer would pay more money for an actual TiVo DVR .......


So what you're saying is........_"Why buy the sow, when you can get the ham and bacon for free"_?


----------



## OmeneX

TiVo if anything is going to continue to approach a unified solution as well. There are so many apps and apps and apps - and streaming boxes are addressing this problem in ways. But what I want --

Better hardware to push a Plex like streaming ability to serve out content tied with TiVo in house servers so that we can stream any content, anywhere better..

Mini's the size of Fire Sticks - and offer a slightly bigger version with more performance.

Make some deals with CE manufactures - get "Power by Tivo" (streaming side) everywhere you can.

Maybe TiVo on movie/music on demand spot - with less compressed media with higher res by working directly with studios. Would piss off a few companies though. 

Rechargable Smart controller with voice control - and IR blasters and WiFi and Bluetooth (RF) to truly control all your devices. That TiVo can update on the fly with new abilities to control your smart home features and practically any device someone may own. With possibly a pro version with built in visual Rovi guide and keyboard LCD screen similar to a - Ray Super Controller. Add a sold separately hub with WiFi, BT, IR etc abilities.

OTA, Cloud DVR and Local DVR capabilities - but combined so it's seamless to the user experience. Max Tuners with more if required. Cable only allow 6 Tuners right now? If they go to 8 later, open the dormant tuner pipes.

True HDD super easy secondary hard drive upgrade ability, and maybe come with a Hybrid HDD that now has been tweaked to perform all those writes on the HDD side, and the SSD side is used to mostly for static files and app usage speed. 

Further casting and streaming abilities to compete with Slingbox. With those Plex like hosting and remote access features.

Switch to Android platform if possible (or make your own) and get those apps cooking.(Who needs TiVo desktop? lol) With support for gaming and a decent video chip. Add a client to it for voice and multiplayer support. (Xbox Live Gold Model)

Don't forget max resolution support and all the latest sound abilities too.

Put a built in Gigabit switch in there for heck of it.

I could keep going - but jam as much crap into it as you can and unify the searches for all this via voice or remote - Kinect motion sensing isn't the best but throw something like that in anyways for the truly lazy.

Slap a 150$ price tag on it for a loss leader (lol), and make ALL IN 399$ bones and we are golden.

Make money with the hope for all in purchases and monthly, yearly peeps, and the minis. Update your hardware every 2 years so ALL IN is a bit more then two years service. Encourage upgrades. To the NEW 2018 model! Technology is moving so fast this could work. Or charge extra for the gaming or cloud DVR aspect, accessories and on demand stuffs. 

I know, I know this probably wouldn't work, and is most likely not possible thanks to the current state of fragmentation and patents and contracts and DRM and costs, but alas..

Just push to be the One to Rule them all. Don't go half way. Go all out. I mean Go all in. (They really need to get on a new OS platform)

What's on your wish list to add? There's alot I left out. 

Oh and make different colors available.


----------



## HarperVision

.......and toast, don't forget to be able to make toast!


----------



## TonyD79

HarperVision said:


> .......and toast, don't forget to be able to make toast!


Forget toast. I want a pony.


----------



## OmeneX

How bout a Toast Pony that comes out the eject tray? 










Anyways, I can't wait for the Bolt+. I'm probably on the boat to buy one, as long as it still has DVR ability.


----------



## TonyD79

OmeneX said:


> How bout a Toast Pony that comes out the eject tray? :cool


I will call him Chestnut.


----------



## idksmy

Dan203 said:


> I doubt their MSO customers care at all what they do for retail.


I was thinking their MSO customers would not like any feature that could make it easier to cut the cord.


----------



## DevdogAZ

idksmy said:


> I was thinking their MSO customers would not like any feature that could make it easier to cut the cord.


A. TiVo could put the cable/OTA ability on their retail product but wouldn't have to put it on their MSO product.

2. If an MSO customer had an MSO-provided TiVo DVR that also allowed for using OTA signals, and then the customer decided to cut the cord, they'd lose that DVR, so it wouldn't be enabling them to cut the cord.

iii. How many people who accept the mediocrity of an MSO-provided DVR would go to the trouble of also hooking up an OTA antenna when their MSO should be providing most/all of the same content?


----------



## idksmy

Obviously I didn't make myself clear.

1. Tivo announces it will add the OTA and Cable feature to their next *retail* device.
2. Their MSO customers see this as a threat, correctly or incorrectly, because it would appeal to code cutters.
3. Their MSO customers pressure Tivo not to.


----------



## DevdogAZ

idksmy said:


> Obviously I didn't make myself clear.
> 
> 1. Tivo announces it will add the OTA and Cable feature to their next *retail* device.
> 2. Their MSO customers see this as a threat, correctly or incorrectly, because it would appeal to code cutters.
> 3. Their MSO customers pressure Tivo not to.


How would that be any more threatening to MSOs than what TiVo already offers? Are you assuming that the MSOs want TiVos to only work with cable, so if someone buys one, then they have an incentive to stick with cable since they've invested the money in the TiVo hardware. The Bolt can already connect to either cable or OTA, so if someone owns a Bolt and decides to cut the cord, that doesn't render their box useless and therefore doesn't prevent someone from cutting the cord. The only thing we're asking for is for the box to allow and recognize both inputs simultaneously, like the original two-tuner Premiere.


----------



## jth tv

I would expect MSO's should be more concerned about Hulu type services than Tivo. Hulu now has 9 million subscribers. 

Cable companies just keep on raising rates, apparently there is really little downside to doing so.


----------



## tivoyahoo

Cable companies want it kept secret that OTA offers superior quality vs. the compressed offering they deliver. shhhh... and that it's delivered free. Why open a door and give them a taste and let consumers see the light. And they'd rather consumers were in the dark about all the alternatives ota can be paired with: Hulu, PS Vue, Sling TV, the list goes on.


----------



## DevdogAZ

jth tv said:


> Cable companies just keep on raising rates, apparently there is really little downside to doing so.


But there is a downside. Cable subscribership has been falling pretty dramatically. ESPN's subscriber numbers are already down around 12% from their peak a couple years ago, and that rate of decline is expected to increase.


----------



## jth tv

DevdogAZ said:


> But there is a downside. Cable subscribership has been falling pretty dramatically. ESPN's subscriber numbers are already down around 12% from their peak a couple years ago, and that rate of decline is expected to increase.


But if they raised the rates more than 12% over that time aren't they ahead ? And their costs would go down a bit too.


----------



## DevdogAZ

jth tv said:


> But if they raised the rates more than 12% over that time aren't they ahead ? And their costs would go down a bit too.


If only it were that simple. But the subscriber losses aren't going to stop at 12%. And the cable industry can't just keep making up lost subscriber revenue by raising rates. At some point the lines will cross and there simply won't be enough remaining subscribers.


----------



## jstevenson

I'd doubt Dolby Vision on the Bolt+ because you have to have special Dolby Hardware on board for it and they probably don't want to pay for that chipset.

I'd kill, _KILL_ for them to do a sportsbar mode in 4k where you can view four full-resolution channels in a grid.


----------



## mswlogo

jstevenson said:


> I'd doubt Dolby Vision on the Bolt+ because you have to have special Dolby Hardware on board for it and they probably don't want to pay for that chipset.
> 
> I'd kill, _KILL_ for them to do a sportsbar mode in 4k where you can view four full-resolution channels in a grid.


Now that's a pretty cool idea.


----------



## TrackZ

jstevenson said:


> I'd doubt Dolby Vision on the Bolt+ because you have to have special Dolby Hardware on board for it and they probably don't want to pay for that chipset.
> 
> I'd kill, _KILL_ for them to do a sportsbar mode in 4k where you can view four full-resolution channels in a grid.


Well, taking that extra step would be a good call for a Pro/Plus level product to give it superior HDR support, differentiate it, and give it a leg up over other boxes.

A TiVo Bolt Pro streaming DV HDR from Netflix, Amazon, and VUDU in UHD with proper audio support and 24 Hz output would be a day one buy for me and an easy choice as my input 1 primary use box. And that would be upgrading over the Bolt I bought last year.


----------



## series5orpremier

In the Roamio line a Plus isn't as a good as a Pro so perhaps that means expectations should be lowered for this new Bolt offering. Maybe it really is the same form factor. Even worse maybe a major part of the "upgrade" is the color.

The picture with the same form factor and the word "Plus" suggest to me only a 2TB 2.5" hard drive.


----------



## aaronwt

series5orpremier said:


> In the Roamio line a Plus isn't as a good as a Pro so perhaps that means expectations should be lowered for this new Bolt offering. Maybe it really is the same form factor. Even worse maybe a major part of the "upgrade" is the color.
> 
> The picture with the same form factor and the word "Plus" suggest to me only a 2TB 2.5" hard drive.


In the Roamio line the Plus was *Identical* to the Pro except for the hard drive size. Which is why it never made any sense for a plus version. When the user could just buy the plus and put in their own 3TB hard drive for much less than the price difference was.


----------



## jth tv

Could the Bolt+ act as a whole-home DVR for Charter ? Might be an opportunity

"New Charter....but the new service doesn't appear to support whole-home DVR functionality."

New Charter TV Packages, Broadband Tiers Leaked
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-Charter-TV-Packages-Broadband-Tiers-Leaked-137738


----------



## rainwater

jth tv said:


> Could the Bolt+ act as a whole-home DVR for Charter ? Might be an opportunity
> 
> "New Charter....but the new service doesn't appear to support whole-home DVR functionality."
> 
> New Charter TV Packages, Broadband Tiers Leaked
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-Charter-TV-Packages-Broadband-Tiers-Leaked-137738


All Bolts can act as a whole home DVR when used with a Mini. And Charter doesn't have whole home DVR solutions so their new plans aren't surprising.


----------



## Sixto

I'm still wondering if the Bolt+ is a total refresh, with 6 tuners and different hard-drive sizes.
I would have thought that it would have been called a Bolt Plus or Bolt Pro if just a new high-end unit, but it's just a naming thing so maybe there will be both the Bolt and Bolt+.


----------



## NashGuy

I'd be very surprised to see two new Bolt models, e.g. Bolt+ and Bolt Pro, introduced next month. (But then again, who can predict TiVo's marketing decisions, which don't always make sense IMO?) 

There just wasn't enough difference between the Roamio and Roamio Plus to warrant the added retail marketing complexity. So I'd expect the Bolt+ to be more like the Roamio Pro, i.e. six CableCARD-based tuners, no OTA, bigger hard drive. It will probably support HDR streaming as well. HDR looks like it will emerge as a buzzy sales point for new streaming boxes from Xiaomi, Roku and Amazon this fall, so I imagine TiVo will also want to be able to boast that for their new Bolt+.


----------



## series5orpremier

But the streaming apps on an HDR TV already support HDR without having to go through HDMI or a TiVo.


----------



## NashGuy

series5orpremier said:


> But the streaming apps on an HDR TV already support HDR without having to go through HDMI or a TiVo.


Yup. And they also already support UHD (4K) since the only TVs that support HDR are also UHD. But some folks find the apps built into smart TVs to not be that great -- slow, crashy, poor UI, rarely or never updated, etc. And their smart TV may only have some of the apps they use. So they prefer to use a dedicating streaming box (or DVR/streamer, in the case of TiVo) that offers a better, unified experience.


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> In the Roamio line the Plus was *Identical* to the Pro except for the hard drive size. Which is why it never made any sense for a plus version. When the user could just buy the plus and put in their own 3TB hard drive for much less than the price difference was.


Originally it wasn't that bad. When the Roamio was first released there was a $200 price difference between the Plus and Pro and a 3TB drive at the time cost about $120. So it wasn't a huge savings to do it your self and void your warranty.

However as time went on the Plus seemed to drop in price more then the Pro, creating a bigger price difference and 3TB drives dropped to like $70/ea making it even more attractive to buy the Plus and do the HDD upgrade yourself.


----------



## mrsean

I can't remember a time when we knew practically nothing about a new Tivo product launch just 20 days prior. Somebody on these forums has to be holding back some details i.e. NDA. Even Zatz has come up with nothing but a possible name.


----------



## Dan203

Maybe TiVo has managed to weed all the leakers out of their beta program? Seems like most of what we find out ahead of a launch comes from some leak from a beta tester. If they kept the beta pool limited to a small number of trusted testers then maybe they managed to prevent such leaks.


----------



## HarperVision

Hmmmm......I wonder how I made it through?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

A lot of the Bolt's leaks were from inside to some extent. The trademark office, FCC, Cablelabs, the youtube videos, pictures on their own website, etc. We were able to infer a lot from that data. This time around, Tivo seems to be locked down. Literally the CEDIA mishap is all there is.

Speaking of trademarks, Tivo filed a trademark for "New Way to TV" a couple months ago but the descriptions all seemed like the same Tivo jibberish.

Ira's tease makes me think it relates more to the new service at CES, not the Bolt+ itself.


----------



## atmuscarella

Dan203 said:


> Maybe TiVo has managed to weed all the leakers out of their beta program? Seems like most of what we find out ahead of a launch comes from some leak from a beta tester. If they kept the beta pool limited to a small number of trusted testers then maybe they managed to prevent such leaks.


If the Bolt + is really just a cable only 6 tuner version of the Bolt, they wouldn't need to do much testing. Last year they had a brand new platform to test and it was pretty clear they intended on having 2 models at the start but shelved the Bolt OTA for some reason.


----------



## bdraw

I highly doubt the Bolt+ will support HDR10 or DV out of the gate. If it did, it would be the very first non-TV to stream Vudu, Netflix or Amazon in HDR.


----------



## NashGuy

bdraw said:


> I highly doubt the Bolt+ will support HDR10 or DV out of the gate. If it did, it would be the very first non-TV to stream Vudu, Netflix or Amazon in HDR.


The Nvidia Shield TV running Android TV got an upgrade a couple months ago so that its Netflix app supports HDR.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/29/nvidia-shield-netflix-hdr-update/

I do believe it's the only non-TV to offer anything in HDR so far though. But based on FCC filings, it looks like Roku may refreshing their entire line this fall. I'd bet their new high-end box will support HDR.

http://cordcuttersnews.com/roku-may-be-releasing-5-new-roku-devices-this-fall/

And the upcoming Mi Box from Xiaomi, running Android TV, will definitely support HDR.

http://www.mi.com/en/mibox/

There's speculation that Amazon will update their Fire TV box this fall too. Wouldn't surprise me if it added HDR support, as that increasingly appears to be a defining feature of flagship streamers.

http://www.aftvnews.com/fire-tv-and-voice-remote-stock-instability-hint-at-new-devices/

In all these cases where HDR is supported, I'm betting it will only be HDR10, not Dolby Vision.


----------



## TrackZ

If the new Bolt is just more tuners and a bigger hard drive, that's an utter fail IMO. 

The box needs HDR. If they can deliver that with Amazon, VUDU, and Netflix working it'll be a major shot fired against other hardware. If they deliver Dolby Vision in addition to HDR10 it'll be a home run. 

Relying on tv apps isn't really great if you have a multichannel surround system, especially an advanced one with Atmos. ARC is majorly unreliable and many tvs won't output Atmos over it. Having those in apps in a box running through a receiver/preamp is incredibly better, more reliable, and stable in most installs. 

Plus having it all in one box is majorly convenient and family friendly.


----------



## Kabookie

TrackZ said:


> If the new Bolt is just more tuners and a bigger hard drive, that's an utter fail IMO.
> 
> The box needs HDR. If they can deliver that with Amazon, VUDU, and Netflix working it'll be a major shot fired against other hardware. If they deliver Dolby Vision in addition to HDR10 it'll be a home run.
> 
> Relying on tv apps isn't really great if you have a multichannel surround system, especially an advanced one with Atmos. ARC is majorly unreliable and many tvs won't output Atmos over it. Having those in apps in a box running through a receiver/preamp is incredibly better, more reliable, and stable in most installs.
> 
> Plus having it all in one box is majorly convenient and family friendly.


Totally agree with TrackZ on this one. I guess we will find out in about two weeks!


----------



## Africanlivedit

TrackZ said:


> I'll upgrade my Bolt to a Bolt+ in a heartbeat if it enables HDR, Atmos, and such on a wider array of apps vs. the current Bolt. Crossing my fingers.
> 
> I had been thinking I would use the new Xbox One S as my main, singular machine, but I'm not feeling all the setup required and lack of features for HDHomePrime DVR. HDMI pass through on the Xbox is too limited as well to use it that way. Plus I think I'll game on my PC more anyway.
> 
> All I need is TiVo to round out the current apps and video/audio quality.


I have the Bolt and would be very annoyed if only the new box came with those features.

The pre-existing Bolt should be able to output Atmos and HDR... and hell, still waiting for Amazon UHD.


----------



## NashGuy

Africanlivedit said:


> I have the Bolt and would be very annoyed if only the new box came with those features.
> 
> The pre-existing Bolt should be able to output Atmos and HDR... and hell, still waiting for Amazon UHD.


I believe its already been confirmed that the existing Vudu app on the Bolt can output Atmos (although not yet UHD). And I _believe_ Margaret at TiVo confirmed months ago (via Twitter, maybe) that HDR capabilities would be added to the existing Bolt via firmware update at some point.

As for UHD in the Amazon Video app, if there's no word about it alongside the introduction of the Bolt+ in Sept., then I wouldn't hold your breath. I don't think Amazon's that concerned with providing high-quality apps to any hardware other than their own Fire TV line.


----------



## jasbur

bdraw said:


> I highly doubt the Bolt+ will support HDR10 or DV out of the gate. If it did, it would be the very first non-TV to stream Vudu, Netflix or Amazon in HDR.


I have the Xbox One S and stream Netflix in HDR. Haven't tried Amazon yet.


----------



## aaronwt

jasbur said:


> I have the Xbox One S and stream Netflix in HDR. Haven't tried Amazon yet.


There is no HDR from Amazon yet with the XBOne S. And the Netlfix app is still borked.


----------



## spaldingclan

I stream HDR through the Sony Android apps all the time....gotta say they work great


----------



## Kabookie

So here is my issue:

I have the above LG panel along with amps and processor but not installed. I have been a long time user of VUDU which I like very much and have Charter as my cable supplier. In researching 4K content with ATMOS I can only find VUDU as a place to stream it. In discussing this with VUDU they say that they only support certain hardware and in fact my panel is listed. No set box or TiVO box just panels. So For you that have a 4K, ATMOS and TiVO box. Can you stream VUDU movies from the current BOLT model and does it all work? When I called TiVO they were very unhelpful if they support ATMOS, HDR etc. What they did say is that Dolby vision will need a chip and is not up gradable with the current unit.

If the above does not work until TiVO has it figured out possibly with the new Bolt + then I was thinking of using the ARC HDMI port on the Panel and Processor and then use the VUDU app in the panel. I would connect my network cable to the panel instead of the TiVO box if the above does not work.

I'm kind of new at what is out there and possible. At this point I'm not thinking of doing the DVD upgrade just use what I have. I kind of tired of buying VHS, DVD, Bluray etc. just really want to stream movie content.


----------



## spaldingclan

Kabookie said:


> So here is my issue:
> 
> I have the above LG panel along with amps and processor but not installed. I have been a long time user of VUDU which I like very much and have Charter as my cable supplier. In researching 4K content with ATMOS I can only find VUDU as a place to stream it. In discussing this with VUDU they say that they only support certain hardware and in fact my panel is listed. No set box or TiVO box just panels. So For you that have a 4K, ATMOS and TiVO box. Can you stream VUDU movies from the current BOLT model and does it all work? When I called TiVO they were very unhelpful if they support ATMOS, HDR etc. What they did say is that Dolby vision will need a chip and is not up gradable with the current unit.
> 
> If the above does not work until TiVO has it figured out possibly with the new Bolt + then I was thinking of using the ARC HDMI port on the Panel and Processor and then use the VUDU app in the panel. I would connect my network cable to the panel instead of the TiVO box if the above does not work.
> 
> I'm kind of new at what is out there and possible. At this point I'm not thinking of doing the DVD upgrade just use what I have. I kind of tired of buying VHS, DVD, Bluray etc. just really want to stream movie content.


the current Bolt does Atmos just fine


----------



## NashGuy

spaldingclan said:


> the current Bolt does Atmos just fine


But the Vudu app for Bolt doesn't do UHD/4K, correct?

If you want to stream in UHD with Atmos sound from Vudu, you'll need to use the Vudu app on the Roku 4, the Nvidia Shield Android TV, or built into certain smart TVs from Vizio and LG. (I expect additional streaming boxes, probably including the Mi Box Android TV, will be introduced this fall that can also stream UHD + Atmos from Vudu.)

If you want to stream in UHD with HDR and Atmos sound from Vudu, that can only be done currently with the Vudu app built into a subset of the smart TVs mentioned above. Because Vudu uses Dolby Vision for HDR encoding, there are currently no streaming devices/boxes that can stream Vudu content in HDR, as none of the streaming boxes on the market contain the special chip needed to decode Dolby Vision. I believe only the following TVs both support Dolby Vision and offer the Vudu app that can do the trifecta of UHD + HDR + Atmos:

VIZIO Reference Series HDTVs
VIZIO 2016 Smartcast P-Series 4K TVs
VIZIO 2016 Smartcast M-Series 4K TVs
LG 2016 OLED 4K TVs - G6, E6, C6 & B6 Models
LG 2016 Super UHD 4K TVs


----------



## aaronwt

Hopefully Vudu decides to start using HDR10 along with Dolby Vision. I know they have certainly lost money from me by only having their UHD content in DV.


----------



## DNA007

Whatever that Bolt+ speculation might be, I'm sure it won't have any of the features working from the start. It will take time. 
I mean crap, it's been good 9 months since we heard from Tivo about Amazon UHD, HDR10 and other features for the current Bolt 4K. This is sad that regular 
Why do they even call that box 4K is beyond me. That was a waste of money. A smart customer will not fall for this type of promise again.


----------



## thyname

DNA007 said:


> Whatever that Bolt+ speculation might be, I'm sure it won't have any of the features working from the start. It will take time.
> I mean crap, it's been good 9 months since we heard from Tivo about Amazon UHD, HDR10 and other features for the current Bolt 4K. This is sad that regular
> Why do they even call that box 4K is beyond me. That was a waste of money. A smart customer will not fall for this type of promise again.


Then probably you bought the wrong product. Since there are no linear 4K broadcasts, I don't care about the 4K features of my Bolt. I get all those features directly from my tv (65" Sony with Android Tv built in). Besides, any OTT streaming device can be purchase for very cheap (Roku, Fire, etc). All I care about is the DVR features of my Bolt, UI, guide, SkipMode , etc. etc. things that we already love our TiVo for 15 years...


----------



## NashGuy

thyname said:


> Then probably you bought the wrong product. Since there are no linear 4K broadcasts, I don't care about the 4K features of my Bolt. I get all those features directly from my tv (65" Sony with Android Tv built in). Besides, any OTT streaming device can be purchase for very cheap (Roku, Fire, etc). All I care about is the DVR features of my Bolt, UI, guide, SkipMode , etc. etc. things that we already love our TiVo for 15 years...


It's a good thing TiVo markets the Bolt as a DVR and not a "Unified Entertainment System".


----------



## Dan203

I have to agree that it's pretty lame that the 4K TiVo still only has 2 apps that can output 4K a year later. They said Amazon was "coming soon" when it was released. And Vudu has 4K apps for other platforms. At the very least those two should be 4K.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> I have to agree that it's pretty lame that the 4K TiVo still only has 2 apps that can output 4K a year later. They said Amazon was "coming soon" when it was released. And Vudu has 4K apps for other platforms. At the very least those two should be 4K.


Vudu does NOT have 4K on the vast majority of 4K devices. And I would doubt that the low numbers of TiVos would make putting it on the Bolt a priority.

Since Vudu has stricter protections and has more work to perform to enable it on each device. Or at least that is what they say.


----------



## Africanlivedit

NashGuy said:


> I believe its already been confirmed that the existing Vudu app on the Bolt can output Atmos (although not yet UHD). And I _believe_ Margaret at TiVo confirmed months ago (via Twitter, maybe) that HDR capabilities would be added to the existing Bolt via firmware update at some point.
> 
> As for UHD in the Amazon Video app, if there's no word about it alongside the introduction of the Bolt+ in Sept., then I wouldn't hold your breath. I don't think Amazon's that concerned with providing high-quality apps to any hardware other than their own Fire TV line.


Prior to me buying the Bolt, TiVo said they were aware of the market of Amazon's UHD and were working on the box putting out Amazon UHD. They said the release was going to be around Thanksgiving of ... 2015.


----------



## NashGuy

Africanlivedit said:


> Prior to me buying the Bolt, TiVo said they were aware of the market of Amazon's UHD and were working on the box putting out Amazon UHD. They said the release was going to be around Thanksgiving of ... 2015.


As I said, don't hold your breath. Again, hopefully TiVo has some UHD (and HDR?) software-related announcements to coincide with the unveiling of the Bolt+ here in a couple of weeks, so maybe we'll hear about an updated Amazon (and/or Vudu) app then.

Speaking of HDR, I tweeted at TiVo yesterday about when/if it that feature may be added to the current Bolt and received back the following:

"No announcements currently, but it's definitely something we're interested in. Keep your eyes peeled!"


----------



## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> Vudu does NOT have 4K on the vast majority of 4K devices. And I would doubt that the low numbers of TiVos would make putting it on the Bolt a priority.
> 
> Since Vudu has stricter protections and has more work to perform to enable it on each device. Or at least that is what they say.


As of this moment, I think there are only three UHD-capable streamers on the market: Nvidia Shield Android TV, Roku 4 and Amazon Fire TV box (2nd gen). Vudu with UHD content (without HDR) is available on the first two of those. I'm guessing Amazon will never allow them on their own Fire TV box because Vudu is a direct competitor to their own video rental/sales efforts. From screenshots I've seen, it looks like the upcoming Mi Box (Android TV) will also offer Vudu with UHD content. We'll see.

I think the only UHD TVs right now that offer the Vudu app are made by Vizio and LG, probably because they're the only two makers that support Dolby Vision, Vudu's version of HDR.

I wonder if they got paid by Dolby to exclusively support Vision as their HDR tech for a certain amount of time. Seems like they're missing out on some business by not also offering the more widely supported HDR10.


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> As of this moment, I think there are only three UHD-capable streamers on the market: Nvidia Shield Android TV, Roku 4 and Amazon Fire TV box (2nd gen). Vudu with UHD content (without HDR) is available on the first two of those. I'm guessing Amazon will never allow them on their own Fire TV box because Vudu is a direct competitor to their own video rental/sales efforts. From screenshots I've seen, it looks like the upcoming Mi Box (Android TV) will also offer Vudu with UHD content. We'll see.
> 
> I think the only UHD TVs right now that offer the Vudu app are made by Vizio and LG, probably because they're the only two makers that support Dolby Vision, Vudu's version of HDR.
> 
> I wonder if they got paid by Dolby to exclusively support Vision as their HDR tech for a certain amount of time. Seems like they're missing out on some business by not also offering the more widely supported HDR10.


I have a Sony UHD streamer, a Samsung UHd streamer (UHD BD player), an Xbox 1 S UHD streamer, plus my Sony TV UHD streaming. In addition to UHD streaming from the roku4, FireTV 4K, and the Bolt.


----------



## zubinh

I still can't see the rationale for using the TiVo as a streamer if you're looking for 4K. I will buy a LG UHD set next month. If I can get UHD and Atmos from the LG apps, why even bother waiting for Tivo to have that capability especially since I don't have to switch inputs or care about having unified search? I'll just use the Tivo as the awesome DVR that it is and nothing else. Am I missing something?


----------



## VillaRegina

I have just subscribed to this feed... I JUST got my Bolt (last Friday). I called Tivo 4 different times so I could speak to 4 different salespeople because I never got an answer to my question about whether the Bolt I was deciding to buy supported HDR now or would be able to update to support HDR in the future... EVERY salesperson I spoke with said that they didn't even know what HDR was!!! I am a newbie to this whole technology but knew that my new TV was 4K UHD with HDR. So I knew enough to want something that supported all of that... Did I make a mistake buying the Bolt NOW? I was kinda between a rock and a hard place. DishTV lost Channels 3 and 27 for months and it doesn't look promising for the future so I wanted to cut the cord before the new tv season started... Should I return this Bolt within the 30 day window to wait for the new Bolt or will this one update to support HDR? That's all I am looking for... Thanks for your time!!! 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> I have a Sony UHD streamer, a Samsung UHd streamer (UHD BD player), an Xbox 1 S UHD streamer, plus my Sony TV UHD streaming. In addition to UHD streaming from the roku4, FireTV 4K, and the Bolt.


Yeah. I wasn't including BD players and dedicated game consoles. I did forget about that weird little Sony box though -- does it even have non-Sony apps on it? Given that both Sony and Microsoft offer their own on-demand streaming movie services, it doesn't surprise me that those units don't have Vudu. The Samsung UHD BD player seems like it ought to have it though. Maybe it will at some point, although BD players in general haven't been great about adding new (or even updating existing) apps...


----------



## NashGuy

VillaRegina said:


> I have just subscribed to this feed... I JUST got my Bolt (last Friday). I called Tivo 4 different times so I could speak to 4 different salespeople because I never got an answer to my question about whether the Bolt I was deciding to buy supported HDR now or would be able to update to support HDR in the future... EVERY salesperson I spoke with said that they didn't even know what HDR was!!! I am a newbie to this whole technology but knew that my new TV was 4K UHD with HDR. So I knew enough to want something that supported all of that... Did I make a mistake buying the Bolt NOW? I was kinda between a rock and a hard place. DishTV lost Channels 3 and 27 for months and it doesn't look promising for the future so I wanted to cut the cord before the new tv season started... Should I return this Bolt within the 30 day window to wait for the new Bolt or will this one update to support HDR? That's all I am looking for... Thanks for your time!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


I'd stick with your Bolt for now and see what TiVo announces during the CEDIA expo Sept. 13-17. We know they're going to unveil a new higher-end (more expensive) box called the Bolt+ there. It's possible that it will offer HDR, but that's just speculation. No one knows. If it does offer HDR, it's possible that TiVo will announce they are also upgrading the firmware of the existing Bolt (which you have) to support HDR too. Or not. The big difference between the Bolt and Bolt+ is expected to be that the Bolt+ will have more cable TV tuners.

Your 30-day return window on your Bolt extends through until Sept. 24 (assuming the purchase date was Aug. 26). So I wouldn't make any decision until near the end of that window based on whatever information is available then.

BTW, if your Bolt does gain HDR support, the only HDR content you can expect to watch on it any time in the future would be UHD (4K) HDR content from Netflix and possibly a few other streaming apps. It will (almost certainly) never be able to receive/record HDR content through an OTA antenna.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Tivo has confirmed twice HDR is coming at some point for all Bolts.

(Speculation: Most likely HDR10 not the Dolby version.)


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## VillaRegina

Thanks so much for the answers and explanations! I really didn't want to go through the hassle of returning - but I am not a techie and didn't know if adding HDR to a Bolt was a hardware or software issue... Coming from a DishTV 2 tuner DVR I am fine with my 4 tuner Bolt!!! But I will keep watching this feed because I am sure you guys will have updates as soon as news comes out... But can you believe that 4 different Tivo salespeople (one even transferred me to Tivo tech support) hadn't even heard of HDR? 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo has confirmed twice HDR is coming at some point for all Bolts.
> 
> (Speculation: Most likely HDR10 not the Dolby version.)


I think Margaret tweeted that awhile back, no? Not sure what the other time was. That said, there's been no "official" confirmation in terms of mentioning HDR in a press release or on the company website, has there? The least we can say is that, some months ago, TiVo was working/planning on adding HDR to the Bolt.

My bet is that the Bolt+ will have HDR10 from the get-go (and that will be touted as one of its big marketing points) and either in the same press release or in a separate one soon after, TiVo will announce an update for the Bolt to get HDR10.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Yep there was Margret's tweet, and a multichannel article from a couple months ago about Tivo's 4K HDR MSO platform that said Bolts will get it too.

Edit: Found it. http://www.multichannel.com/blog/ba...-working-mso-optimized-4k-hdr-platform/405047


----------



## thyname

NashGuy said:


> It's a good thing TiVo markets the Bolt as a DVR and not a "Unified Entertainment System".





Dan203 said:


> I have to agree that it's pretty lame that the 4K TiVo still only has 2 apps that can output 4K a year later. They said Amazon was "coming soon" when it was released. And Vudu has 4K apps for other platforms. At the very least those two should be 4K.


My point was that I 4K streaming was plenty available by other devices for streaming. I completely realize that Bolt cannot be one box to rule them all.

Besides, most of the 4K TVs are smart TVs (I don't know of any that is not "smart"), and most of the 4K content can be streamed directly from the TV.


----------



## Dan203

thyname said:


> My point was that I 4K streaming was plenty available by other devices for streaming. I completely realize that Bolt cannot be one box to rule them all.
> 
> Besides, most of the 4K TVs are smart TVs (I don't know of any that is not "smart"), and most of the 4K content can be streamed directly from the TV.


Just because you have a smart TV doesn't make it convenient to use. I have a smart TV and I still prefer to use my TiVo for apps. It's just easier to use one remote and one device to watch everything.

TiVo has always been slow introducing new/updated apps, but they said Amazon was "coming soon" when they released the Bolt and nearly a year later it's still not here. At the very least that's bad PR, at worst it's false advertising.


----------



## thyname

Dan203 said:


> Just because you have a smart TV doesn't make it convenient to use. I have a smart TV and I still prefer to use my TiVo for apps. It's just easier to use one remote and one device to watch everything.
> 
> TiVo has always been slow introducing new/updated apps, but they said Amazon was "coming soon" when they released the Bolt and nearly a year later it's still not here. At the very least that's bad PR, at worst it's false advertising.


I fully understand your point. As I said, I don't expect TiVo to be the "box that rules them all". I have conceded to this fact many years ago, and I have learned to manage the expectations on TiVo over my 14 years as a TiVo user. As with everything in life, there is always a difference between expectations (be it implied or expressed) and reality.

Besides, I have a bunch of devices on both my HT systems (receiver, soundbar, streaming devices, TiVo Bolt & Mini, 4K and BD players, XBOX, etc.), and I will need to switch remotes, controls, inputs anyway. I have Harmony remotes (for both my systems), and I am quite happy with them, as it completely solves these needs with ease. I would suggest taking a look at those remotes.


----------



## NashGuy

thyname said:


> I fully understand your point. As I said, I don't expect TiVo to be the "box that rules them all". I have conceded to this fact many years ago, and I have learned to manage the expectations on TiVo over my 14 years as a TiVo user. As with everything in life, there is always a difference between expectations (be it implied or expressed) and reality.
> 
> Besides, I have a bunch of devices on both my HT systems (receiver, soundbar, streaming devices, TiVo Bolt & Mini, 4K and BD players, XBOX, etc.), and I will need to switch remotes, controls, inputs anyway. I have Harmony remotes (for both my systems), and I am quite happy with them, as it completely solves these needs with ease. I would suggest taking a look at those remotes.


I did buy my Roamio OTA last year expecting it to be my "one box" solution. I knew at the time that it didn't (yet) have apps for the brand new/pending HBO Now and Showtime streaming services but it did have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Vudu and YouTube and claimed to tie those sources and my TV recordings together with OnePass. It looked so promising, unlike anything else on the market! By late this spring, though, I came to the same conclusion as you, and conceded that TiVo just isn't a great streamer (for a variety of reasons) and the reality of OnePass doesn't quite live up to its marketing hype. So I'm back to using separate devices for regular (OTA) TV versus streaming.

I know there are people who are plenty satisfied with TiVo as a streaming device and I know the streaming situation is a little better for the Bolt than the Roamio. But the reality is that Americans do quite a bit of streaming and TiVo's overriding marketing message is now "we're the only solution for seamlessly unifying your traditional and streaming TV viewing". That's their pitch and, in a lot of folks' opinion, they're falling short.


----------



## kklier

NashGuy said:


> BTW, if your Bolt does gain HDR support, the only HDR content you can expect to watch on it any time in the future would be UHD (4K) HDR content from Netflix and possibly a few other streaming apps. It will (almost certainly) never be able to receive/record HDR content through an OTA antenna.


Never say never...

http://www.wral.com/wral-to-begin-broadcasting-in-next-gen-tv-technology/15815109/


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## Dan203

ATSC 3.0 only has about 28Mbps on bandwidth. Currently realtime encoders can't compress 4K content that small. I'm assuming that since this was a test they pre-encoded the documentary the showed to be small enough to fit. 

We're still quite a ways off from widespread ATSC 3.0/4K HDR content. And cable companies seem to be favoring IP delivery, through special apps, for their 4K content rather then QAM so that's unlikely to happen either.


----------



## NashGuy

kklier said:


> Never say never...
> 
> http://www.wral.com/wral-to-begin-broadcasting-in-next-gen-tv-technology/15815109/


Oh, I do believe that UHD HDR content will be broadcast OTA at some point in the future if ATSC 3.0 gets off the ground, I just don't believe the TiVo Bolt will ever be able to receive and record those signals because the Bolt has ATSC 1.0 tuners, not ATSC 3.0 tuners. I guess it's theoretically possible that TiVo could sell ATSC 3.0 tuners in the future that could plug into the Bolt via USB, but let's be realistic, that's not gonna happen (assuming TiVo is still even in the retail DVR business by the time ATSC 3.0 is widespread).


----------



## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Oh, I do believe that UHD HDR content will be broadcast OTA at some point in the future if ATSC 3.0 gets off the ground, I just don't believe the TiVo Bolt will ever be able to receive and record those signals because the Bolt has ATSC 1.0 tuners, not ATSC 3.0 tuners. I guess it's theoretically possible that TiVo could sell ATSC 3.0 tuners in the future that could plug into the Bolt via USB, but let's be realistic, that's not gonna happen (assuming TiVo is still even in the retail DVR business by the time ATSC 3.0 is widespread).


No, they'll release the Mantis Pro with ATSC 3.0 tuners!


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> TiVo has always been slow introducing new/updated apps, but they said Amazon was "coming soon" when they released the Bolt and nearly a year later it's still not here. At the very least that's bad PR, at worst it's* false advertising*.


If my suspicions are correct, it wouldn't be the lone instance of false advertising they're putting out.


----------



## abovethesink

Less than a week out and no leak? I want to know what this is! I am only expecting a 6 tuner bigger HD model, but I am really hoping for 4 GBs instead of three. The stream from the Roamio line too would be nice. Give me those things and I will retire the old two tuner Premiere from the bedroom, move the Roamio Basic to that spot, and add a Bolt+ to my living room.


----------



## aaronwt

Yes if they have that at a decent price I will definitely retire my two Bolts in favor of the Bolt+. And then I can finally sell my lifetime Roamio Pro.


----------



## abovethesink

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12/tivo-bolt-plus-bigger-blacker/?sr_source=Facebook


----------



## gregg37

Not what people were hoping for I think.


----------



## abovethesink

This seemed like what they were always going to do, but I can't help but feel disappointed anyway. An extra gig, a more powerful stream chipset, hell even an announcement of Amazon 4k support to go with it... Anything, really, other than a 4k Roamio Pro. I never really thought they'd deliver any of that, but I couldn't help but hope.

Anyway, it looks like no year of service is included this go around?


----------



## rainwater

gregg37 said:


> Not what people were hoping for I think.


6 tuners and a 3TB drive are pretty much what was missing from the original Bolt. I'm not sure there is a market for adding even more features that would increase the price.


----------



## gregg37

I think most here were hoping for a more rack friendly box. (I personally kinda like the funky design)

I know six tuners make the TiVo purists who let it record all willy-nilly happy, but I think the average viewer is more than covered with 4. I mean with today's garbage television... is there REALLY that much you need to watch?

This is pretty much what I expected when I accepted their lifetime offer on my Roamio a couple weeks back. Really glad I didn't wait it out.


----------



## Steve

abovethesink said:


> This seemed like what they were always going to do, but I can't help but feel disappointed anyway. An extra gig, a more powerful stream chipset, hell even an announcement of Amazon 4k support to go with it... Anything, really, other than a 4k Roamio Pro. I never really thought they'd deliver any of that, but I couldn't help but hope.
> 
> Anyway, it looks like no year of service is included this go around?


Agree. This would have been a nice third option when the Bolt was first introduced. Now, it's underwhelming, IMHO.


----------



## JoeKustra

Like I posted in your other duplicate thread: new remote layout.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543331

I know you can't delete a thread, so it's not really your fault.


----------



## TrackZ

Meh. No talk of new 4K apps nor HDR. Price seems high too IMO.


----------



## abovethesink

JoeKustra said:


> Like I posted in your other duplicate thread: new remote layout.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543331
> 
> I know you can't delete a thread, so it's not really your fault.


Posted both on purpose. People have Bolts come here, people who do not have one don't. A new Tivo box is something everyone will want to know about, I'd wager.


----------



## innocentfreak

JoeKustra said:


> Like I posted in your other duplicate thread: new remote layout.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543331
> 
> I know you can't delete a thread, so it's not really your fault.


The layout looks identical to the Bolt.


----------



## JoeKustra

innocentfreak said:


> The layout looks identical to the Bolt.


I swear the first time I viewed the Forbes picture the remote was on the first Bolt and it had a different layout.


----------



## thyname

rainwater said:


> 6 tuners and a 3TB drive are pretty much what was missing from the original Bolt. I'm not sure there is a market for adding even more features that would increase the price.


Agreed! This is exactly what I was expecting:

6 tuners

3 TB space

Price

The "leaked" feature was maintaining current shape and being in black, thus I was expecting these as well.

No surprises for me (either bad or good).


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## thyname

Just in from David Zatz:

http://zatznotfunny.com/2016-09/tivo-scales-back-retail-ambitions-bolt-plus/


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## aaronwt

gregg37 said:


> Not what people were hoping for I think.


Not what I was hoping for but definitely what I expected.


----------



## aaronwt

JoeKustra said:


> Like I posted in your other duplicate thread: new remote layout.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543331
> 
> I know you can't delete a thread, so it's not really your fault.


The remote layout in the Forbes picture looks the same as the remotes that came with my 4 tuner Bolts. Which looks the same as the layout of the remotes from my ROamios.


----------



## zubinh

They keep focusing on hardware when they should be focusing on content. With all that horsepower can the Bolt Plus give me Vudu UHD, Amazon UHD and Netflix UHD all with Atmos sound? Can it offer a better upscaler for HD broadcasts than my TV? The initial premise behind the Bolt was to offer up 4K. And that's probably it's weakest feature.


----------



## aaronwt

zubinh said:


> They keep focusing on hardware when they should be focusing on content. With all that horsepower can the Bolt Plus give me Vudu UHD, Amazon UHD and Netflix UHD?


The current Bolt can. That doesn't mean the apps area available.

If the Endgadget specs are to be believed(they got the Roamio Pro GigE port wrong saying it's only 100BT) the six tuner Bolt+ has the same memory and CPU as the four tuner Bolt.

3GB of memory and a CPU with 11,000 DMIPS is what the four tuner Bolt has. And both the four tuner and six tuner Bolt can only handle two transcoded streams concurrently.


----------



## ilovedvrs

https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/12/tivo-debuts-its-newest-dvr-the-4k-ready-bolt-with-6-tuners/

another story..

I don't need six tuners, or the weird shape.

Tivo mini update?


----------



## thyname

ilovedvrs said:


> Tivo mini update?


See: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542670&page=2

Answer to question #15, post #32.

Probably around mid-year 2017


----------



## OmeneX

Well.. indifferent. I could use the two extra tuners I suppose, but I may wait awhile.


----------



## jkudlacz

TrackZ said:


> Meh. No talk of new 4K apps nor HDR. Price seems high too IMO.


Seems viable that HDR will come with Software Update. I doubt you will hear anything about new APPs from Tivo if Sony mentioned the same ones Tivo did (Netflix and YouTube) I think in the future Vudu and Amazon may join them, maybe even Hulu.


----------



## tlc

Perhaps they've left room for a "Pro" still to come? It seems odd that they would use "+"/Plus on their top box when that previously applied to the middle box.


----------



## NashGuy

tlc said:


> Perhaps they've left room for a "Pro" still to come? It seems odd that they would use "+"/Plus on their top box when that previously applied to the middle box.


I doubt TiVo sees their retail sales as being sufficient to justify three different models of the Bolt. For whatever reason, I guess their marketing team liked the name Bolt+ better than Bolt Pro.


----------



## lgnad

Just got the email.... didnt see anyone posting it yet

https://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/?utm_source=subs&utm_medium=email


----------



## krkaufman

lgnad said:


> Just got the email.... didnt see anyone posting it yet
> 
> https://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/?utm_source=subs&utm_medium=email


Interesting, I wasn't aware of the "only 1 OOH streaming session" restriction for the BOLT, mentioned down in footnote #4:


> Out-of-home streaming (a) will support streaming to only one of your devices at a time


----------



## atmuscarella

krkaufman said:


> Interesting, I wasn't aware of the "only 1 OOH streaming session" restriction for the BOLT, mentioned down in footnote #4:


Yes currently only 1 out of home stream and 2 in home, with max of 2 total at a time. Also the Bolt does not currently work with a Stand Alone Stream or the Stream built into the Roamio Plus/Pro


----------



## HarperVision

lgnad said:


> Just got the email.... didnt see anyone posting it yet
> 
> https://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/?utm_source=subs&utm_medium=email





krkaufman said:


> Interesting, I wasn't aware of the "only 1 OOH streaming session" restriction for the BOLT, mentioned down in footnote #4:


Got the same email and was wondering the same thing.


----------



## atmuscarella

lgnad said:


> Just got the email.... didnt see anyone posting it yet
> 
> https://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/?utm_source=subs&utm_medium=email


Interesting that they don't mention cable or OTA anywhere so we still don't know for 100% sure that it is cable only.


----------



## Sixto

I didn't realize that the Bolt didn't do component even with a breakout cable. Need to rethink my Slingbox setup.


----------



## atmuscarella

Sixto said:


> I didn't realize that the Bolt didn't do component even with a breakout cable. Need to rethink my Slingbox setup.


You would need to buy a Mini and use that with your Slingbox.


----------



## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> Yes currently only 1 out of home stream and 2 in home, with max of 2 total at a time. Also the Bolt does not currently work with a Stand Alone Stream or the Stream built into the Roamio Plus/Pro


Any similar restriction for the TiVo Stream (or Roamio Plus & Pro), or is the Stream capable of 4 concurrent sessions, in-home or out-of-home?


----------



## thyname

atmuscarella said:


> Interesting that they don't mention cable or OTA anywhere so we still don't know for 100% sure that it is cable only.


Cable only. No antenna. See below, reply to my post in there from Cnet writer (under "comments"):

http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/


----------



## Dan203

Maybe the new Mantis that's coming early next year will act as an external OTA tuner for the Bolt+?


----------



## HarperVision

Yeah I agree and I've been saying that about the Mantis too Dan. :up:


----------



## krkaufman

thyname said:


> Cable only. No antenna. See below, reply to my post in there from Cnet writer (under "comments"):
> 
> http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/


*Permalink: http://fyre.it/Xe85DL.4*


> joshua.goldman
> @thyname *TiVo just confirmed, **"BOLT+ does not do OTA."*


----------



## atmuscarella

krkaufman said:


> Any similar restriction for the TiVo Stream (or Roamio Plus & Pro), or is the Stream capable of 4 concurrent sessions, in-home or out-of-home?


I have a Stand alone Stream and know it can do 4 in home at once, but have never used it for more than 1 out of home stream, so not sure what the out of home restrictions are if any.


----------



## thyname

krkaufman said:


> *Permalink: http://fyre.it/Xe85DL.4*


Nice work! Thanks!


----------



## bruceko

It is BLACK!


----------



## lew

I don't see dimensions on website. Any chance tivo is using 3.5" drive?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Same dimensions as the Bolt. Uses a 2.5" drive.


----------



## tomhorsley

bruceko said:


> It is BLACK!


An excellent opportunity for "entrepreneurs" to paint old bolts black and sell them for a premium as a bolt+ .


----------



## InVision

Hi Everyone been away for a while. Finally out growing our Premiere and made a decision to buy a Bolt + tomorrow. Been catching up on the forum and have a simple question.

Will we have trouble with the Bolt 4K HDMI on our Samsung UN65HU8550 TV running Software Version 2340? It seems there are a bunch of posts indicating problems.

I was hoping that members familiar with the Bolt and 4K could chime in and point me in the right direction before we purchase.

Thank You in advance.

M


----------



## VillaRegina

krkaufman said:


> *Permalink: http://fyre.it/Xe85DL.4*


I just bought my Bolt (with a WD Hard Drive to use as additional storage) in August and was seriously considering using my 30-day return option to buy a Bolt+ instead... Wow, you've saved me from making a HUGE mistake! REALLY? No OTA? REALLY??? Thanks so much for posting this! The idea is so outlandish to me that I never would have questioned it and would have just automatically done the return and purchase without even asking about that! Thanks, again!!!

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Kabookie

I wonder what genius at CEDIA put the new Bolt + as one of the contenders in the 2016 best new products. What a joke! How can adding a more memory and a couple more channels be considered in this category. If this is the standard for the best new products its a real low bar. Where is the HDR or Dolby Vision support or more apps that can stream 4K, HDR and ATMOS. Really disappointed!


----------



## atmuscarella

VillaRegina said:


> I just bought my Bolt (with a WD Hard Drive to use as additional storage) in August and was seriously considering using my 30-day return option to buy a Bolt+ instead... Wow, you've saved me from making a HUGE mistake! REALLY? No OTA? REALLY??? Thanks so much for posting this! The idea is so outlandish to me that I never would have questioned it and would have just automatically done the return and purchase without even asking about that! Thanks, again!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


This is nothing new and is the third generation of TiVos where the higher end products do not have OTA support.

Premiere 4/XL 4 - No OTA, Roamio Plus/Pro - No OTA, Bolt Plus - No OTA.

What would have been unusual is if it did have OTA support and what would have been a major change is if it could have done cable & OTA at the same time.


----------



## krkaufman

VillaRegina said:


> I just bought my Bolt (with a WD Hard Drive to use as additional storage) in August and was seriously considering using my 30-day return option to buy a Bolt+ instead... Wow, you've saved me from making a HUGE mistake! REALLY? No OTA? REALLY??? Thanks so much for posting this! The idea is so outlandish to me that I never would have questioned it and would have just automatically done the return and purchase without even asking about that! Thanks, again!!!


Thanks should be directed to *'thyname'*, since their the one who put the effort into nailing down the issue. (see here) I just posted the direct link to the confirmation.

VERY glad you didn't ship that BOLT back...!


----------



## series5orpremier

Kabookie said:


> I wonder what genius at CEDIA put the new Bolt + as one of the contenders in the 2016 best new products. What a joke! How can adding a more memory and a couple more channels be considered in this category. If this is the standard for the best new products its a real low bar. Where is the HDR or Dolby Vision support or more apps that can stream 4K, HDR and ATMOS. Really disappointed!


Yep. It's a less technically robust Roamio Pro with lipstick. Every feature was present in a previous product.


----------



## NashGuy

series5orpremier said:


> Yep. It's a less technically robust Roamio Pro with lipstick. Every feature was present in a previous product.


Well, to be fair, the Bolt+ has a processor that allows it to stream in UHD, to launch apps faster and move through the UI menus faster compared to the Roamio Pro. The only way that Bolt+ could be thought of as less robust than the Roamio Pro is that the former is restricted to serving up 1 to 2 concurrent streams to non-TiVo devices (phones, tablets, PCs) while the latter can serve 4 concurrent streams. Meanwhile, the other specs remain pretty much the same between the two (6 QAM tuners, 3 GB HDD, MoCA, etc.). Overall, I'd say the Bolt+ is certainly an advancement over the Roamio Pro. Not as big of an advancement as many were expecting or hoping for, but still...


----------



## series5orpremier

NashGuy said:


> The only way that Bolt+ could be thought of as less robust than the Roamio Pro is that the former is restricted to serving up 1 to 2 concurrent streams to non-TiVo devices (phones, tablets, PCs) while the latter can serve 4 concurrent streams.


Nope. It has a shorter hardware lifetime. That processor won't last as long in that environment. I've also seen it suggested the smaller hard drives in theory don't last as long; that would require more frequent hard drive replacement.


----------



## NashGuy

series5orpremier said:


> Nope. It has a shorter hardware lifetime. That processor won't last as long in that environment. I've also seen it suggested the smaller hard drives in theory don't last as long; that would require more frequent hard drive replacement.


Eh, possibly. That's all speculation at this point, of course. Time will tell.

But, as I said on one of these threads this week, I don't see many folks upgrading from a Roamio Pro to a Bolt+. The value proposition just isn't there. You'll have some TiVo fanatics that don't mind spending cash who've already bought a Bolt and will again buy the latest and greatest TiVo to gain more tuners. And then you'll have longtime TiVo users on a Premiere or older box who've been holding off on upgrading and will now buy the Bolt+. But I don't see many folks currently using a Roamio deciding to plunk down the cash for a Bolt+.


----------



## ufo4sale

What's the break even point for the all in option? How man years?


----------



## series5orpremier

NashGuy said:


> Eh, possibly. That's all speculation at this point, of course.


Nope. It's a statistical fact. I used to do that for a living. Now you MIGHT be one of the lucky ones who doesn't notice a difference but that won't be a consolation to a higher percentage of people whose boxes fail at a certain point in the future.


----------



## HarperVision

VillaRegina said:


> I just bought my Bolt (with a WD Hard Drive to use as additional storage) in August and was seriously considering using my 30-day return option to buy a Bolt+ instead... Wow, you've saved me from making a HUGE mistake! REALLY? No OTA? REALLY??? Thanks so much for posting this! The idea is so outlandish to me that I never would have questioned it and would have just automatically done the return and purchase without even asking about that! Thanks, again!!! Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


I believe that's the void that the Mantis will fill.



Kabookie said:


> I wonder what genius at CEDIA put the new Bolt + as one of the contenders in the 2016 best new products. What a joke! How can adding a more memory and a couple more channels be considered in this category. If this is the standard for the best new products its a real low bar. Where is the HDR or Dolby Vision support or more apps that can stream 4K, HDR and ATMOS. Really disappointed!


I notice everyone keeps concentrating on the hardware, but how do we know that the big change with it won't be the software?


----------



## series5orpremier

HarperVision said:


> I notice everyone keeps concentrating on the hardware, but how do we know that the big change with it won't be the software?


Any software change would only be unique to the Bolt+ by choice, not neccessity. We have no reason to believe it couldn't be implemented as a standard update to Bolts and Roamios as well. That revolutionary UX system to me looks like hype based on the exact same thing we have now except with things rearranged, some made bigger and some de-emphasized.


----------



## HobokenSkier

gregg37 said:


> I think most here were hoping for a more rack friendly box. (I personally kinda like the funky design)


But in reality there is no change here. The Roaming was not rack ear compatible. It needed a shelf. The same shelf that the bolt would fit on.


----------



## HarperVision

series5orpremier said:


> Any software change would only be unique to the Bolt+ by choice, not neccessity. We have no reason to believe it couldn't be implemented as a standard update to Bolts and Roamios as well. That revolutionary UX system to me looks like hype based on the exact same thing we have now except with things rearranged, some made bigger and some de-emphasized.


I totally agree, but I was mainly replying to the post asking why the Bolt+ was nominated for an award at CEDIA, so I was deducing that maybe it wasn't just for the hardware changes and that it could possibly be due to new software that they reviewed along with the hardware of the Bolt+. This could also add things like HDR.


----------



## Kabookie

HarperVision said:


> I believe that's the void that the Mantis will fill.
> 
> I notice everyone keeps concentrating on the hardware, but how do we know that the big change with it won't be the software?


That's the whole point I think to support Dolby Vision it is hardware. Apparently HDR is a software upgrade but then again notice that the Bolt + announcement left that out of the announcement as if this is not important. So now on the consumer end you are left wondering will there be an upgrade to these features or will they just come out with another box. In the meantime why buy anything.

I just got off the phone with Vudu to discuss their Vudu app on my LG OLED panel that does suport Vudu, 4k, Atmos, and Dolby vision. The problem is you can't play Atmos from your panel and if you output the sound like in my case with optical out that will only do Dolby digital but that is not ATMOS. I also asked then what set box will support your app completely and she said none. I guess we knew that. So then I asked why do you have content that can't be used? She did not know. I asked if she could pass this on to get more info on this and she is. I don't know if I will hear back but will pass it on.


----------



## aaronwt

Kabookie said:


> That's the whole point I think to support Dolby Vision it is hardware. Apparently HDR is a software upgrade but then again notice that the Bolt + announcement left that out of the announcement as if this is not important. So now on the consumer end you are left wondering will there be an upgrade to these features or will they just come out with another box. In the meantime why buy anything.
> 
> I just got off the phone with Vudu to discuss their Vudu app on my LG OLED panel that does suport Vudu, 4k, Atmos, and Dolby vision. The problem is you can't play Atmos from your panel and if you output the sound like in my case with optical out that will only do Dolby digital but that is not ATMOS. I also asked then what set box will support your app completely and she said none. I guess we knew that. So then I asked why do you have content that can't be used? She did not know. I asked if she could pass this on to get more info on this and she is. I don't know if I will hear back but will pass it on.


You need to use the ARC with a receiver/speaker bar that is capable of receiving DD+ over the ARC. If the LG TVs can send DD+ over the ARC(like the 2016 Vizios can do) then you will be able to get Atmos from the Vudu UHD titles from the built in app..


----------



## FitzAusTex

Pretty sure I read somewhere that the Bolt+ will be able to keep more apps in memory, other than just Netflix. That would be useful.


----------



## H.I.McDunnough

series5orpremier said:


> Yep. It's a less technically robust Roamio Pro with lipstick. Every feature was present in a previous product.


Is that true? I have a Roamio Pro, but I don't think it does 4K. I was looking at the Bolt Plus because I'm about to upgrade my TV to 4K. Love the Roamio Pro, but I want to get the 4K content.


----------



## krkaufman

H.I.McDunnough said:


> Is that true? I have a Roamio Pro, but I don't think it does 4K. I was looking at the Bolt Plus because I'm about to upgrade my TV to 4K. Love the Roamio Pro, but I want to get the 4K content.


It is hyperbole. If you want a 4K-capable TiVo, a BOLT or BOLT+ is your only choice. (The criticisms on the 4K front are primarily the dearth of 4K apps and the unavailability of HDR.)

Some would suggest supplementing your Roamio Pro with a 4K-capable streaming device, like a Roku 4 or 4K Fire TV, if you find your TV's 4K apps deficient.


----------



## aaronwt

FitzAusTex said:


> Pretty sure I read somewhere that the Bolt+ will be able to keep more apps in memory, other than just Netflix. That would be useful.


Not sure how since the Bolt + seems to have the same specs as the 4 tuner Bolt. Only the Bolt+ will be buffering six tuners. So unless they increased the memory over the current 3GB, it would have less memory available for apps. Unless they will be dedicating less memory for each tuner buffer.


----------



## aaronwt

H.I.McDunnough said:


> Is that true? I have a Roamio Pro, but I don't think it does 4K. I was looking at the Bolt Plus because I'm about to upgrade my TV to 4K. Love the Roamio Pro, but I want to get the 4K content.


Sure the Bolt has 4K, but almost a year later and it's still the same two apps with 4K.


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> Not sure how since the Bolt + seems to have the same specs as the 4 tuner Bolt. Only the Bolt+ will be buffering six tuners. So unless they increased the memory over the current 3GB, it would have less memory available for apps. Unless they will be dedicating less memory for each tuner buffer.


It's possible the current Bolt is capable of this as well and they just have to enable it via software.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> It's possible the current Bolt is capable of this as well and they just have to enable it via software.


That would be the only way if the spec sheets of the Bolt+ is right. If the Bolt+ is capable of it then the four tuner Bolt should be capable.


----------



## series5orpremier

krkaufman said:


> It is hyperbole.


No it's not. It's a straightforward correct statement. We've seen 6 tuners and 3TB before in the Roamio Pro. We've seen 4k streaming before in the Bolt. The only thing the Bolt+ does is combine old features.


----------



## HarperVision

TiVo Bolt+ is on TiVo.com now:

https://www.tivo.com/shop/bolt-detail

I put it in my cart and then tried to go to checkout screen and it keeps kicking me back to the sign in page no matter how many times I sign in and try.


----------



## HarperVision

plus, it had it at $399, not $499. Now my cart is empty, I wonder if they made a mistake?


----------



## chicagobrownblue

H.I.McDunnough said:


> Is that true? I have a Roamio Pro, but I don't think it does 4K. I was looking at the Bolt Plus because I'm about to upgrade my TV to 4K. Love the Roamio Pro, but I want to get the 4K content.


The Bolts only stream 4K content, they do not record streaming 4K content. The cable companies are not delivering 4K content over coax. There is another thread on TCF that one major cable company is not even delivering 1080i content over coax.



krkaufman said:


> It is hyperbole. If you want a 4K-capable TiVo, a BOLT or BOLT+ is your only choice. (The criticisms on the 4K front are primarily the dearth of 4K apps and the unavailability of HDR.)
> 
> Some would suggest supplementing your Roamio Pro with a 4K-capable *streaming device*, like a Roku 4 or 4K Fire TV, if you find your TV's 4K apps deficient.


+1

The Roku 4 seems to be the best choice.

Instead of buying the Bolt+, I'm just swapping in a 3 TB hard drive.


----------



## bearcat2000

I just called to see what kinda deal they would give me since I've been with TiVo for 15 years, purchased 6 top of the line boxes and 6 Minis, 10 Slide Remotes, and a Stream, all with lifetime. Their best deal was full price.  Not happening.


----------



## NashGuy

Speaking of 4K (UHD)-capable streamers (for those who decide to supplement their TiVo with a separate device), it looks like there will be some new models available very soon.

Roku is set to refresh their line-up and will offer more than one model that can stream UHD, with two of them offering UHD HDR. 

It also looks like there may be an updated Amazon Fire TV box and stick rolling out any day now, although the box will likely remain the only one of the two that can handle UHD. I'm guessing the box will upgrade from the current model's support for UHD to UHD HDR but we don't know.

On the Android TV front, the Nvidia Shield TV (a powerful but more expensive streaming + gaming box) is set to roll out a new version soon and Xiaomi will roll out their Mi Box some time between now and early Oct. Both units stream UHD HDR.

Google is rumored to introduce a UHD-capable version of the Chromecast, called either Chromecast Ultra or Chromecast Plus, during their big hardware announcement event on Oct. 4.

Newly unveiled gaming systems, the Microsoft Xbox One S and the Sony PlayStation 4 Pro, both offer UHD HDR streaming. The former, but not the latter, also offers Ultra HD Blu-ray.

Apple TV remains the only major streaming platform that doesn't support UHD or HDR.


----------



## DevdogAZ

bearcat2000 said:


> I just called to see what kinda deal they would give me since I've been with TiVo for 15 years, purchased 6 top of the line boxes and 6 Minis, 10 Slide Remotes, and a Stream, all with lifetime. Their best deal was full price.  Not happening.


Why would they offer anyone a discount on the very first day their brand-new flagship product is available? Discounts are what retailers use to get rid of stale inventory that isn't moving fast enough or to try and speed up adoption rates of a new product that isn't catching on. But they're certainly not going to do that on Day One.

Call back in six months and you might get a different answer.


----------



## mrsean

I could see the Bolt+ going for $380 (or less) by Christmas. I seem to recall last year the regular Bolt price started dropping within a week of release. I expect no difference this year.

Edit: I see that it's already going for $400 direct from Tivo


----------



## HarperVision

mrsean said:


> I could see the Bolt+ going for $380 (or less) by Christmas. I seem to recall last year the regular Bolt price started dropping within a week of release. I expect no difference this year. Edit: I see that it's already going for $400 direct from Tivo


No, I reported that and I think that was a mistake on tivo's part. From what I've heard and seen, it's been corrected and shows $499.


----------



## Steve

HarperVision said:


> No, I reported that and I think that was a mistake on tivo's part. From what I've heard and seen, it's been corrected and shows $499.


Yup. I spent $1137 (including tax) this morning for a Bolt+ with Lifetime. 

Looking back, my first TiVo was a 1999 Series 1 that cost about $1050, including tax and lifetime service.

After that, the Sony Sat-T60s were a relative bargain at $400 each. I was able to transfer lifetime to my DIRECTV account.

Around 2004 or 2005, I paid $1100 at Circuit City for my first "HD" TiVo, the HR10-250. I wound up buying 2 more, when I added add'l HD TVs. Can't remember what I paid, but it was less than $1100.


----------



## aaronwt

Those HR10-250 units were great. I remember buying eight of them in 2004 for under $1k each(after coupon) and selling six of them for an average of around $1400. So I covered the cost of my first two units and covered part of the upgrade to 500GB(two 250GB drives) in each box.(And I picked up an open box the next year)

Those were the good old days where I could easily buy a bunch of an electronic item at launch and sell some of them to cover the entire cost of the items I kept.

I only just threw out the HR10-250 units this past Winter. They had been gathering dust since 2007. when i finally retired them after getting the TiVo S3 boxes.


----------



## Sixto

Yeah, I just threw out my two HR10-250's a few years ago. They were gathering dust in the attic for a decade, which is why I may just sell my lifetime Roamio's on eBay. I'd rather keep for backup but I always say that and never use the devices again.

I also have a brand new spare 3TB AV drive just in case a TiVo drive ever fails, that's also been sitting on the shelf for a few years, and now the Bolt+ may only be 2.5".

So what do you all think ... you think they re-designed the internals and squeezed a 3.5" AV drive in the Bolt+?

I ordered mine this morning, arrives Tuesday.


----------



## Dan203

I'd be willing to bet it still uses a 2.5" drive.


----------



## Sixto

Dan203 said:


> I'd be willing to bet it still uses a 2.5" drive.


But which one. It doesn't seem like there's a mainstream 2.5" 3TB AV drive available that we know of.


----------



## JoE 15

Hey everyone, a little late to the party. 

So this is just a Bolt with 3TB and 6 Tuners? Is there HDR support or anything else?


----------



## HarperVision

Sixto said:


> .......So what do you all think ... you think they re-designed the internals and squeezed a 3.5" AV drive in the Bolt+? I ordered mine this morning, arrives Tuesday.


So, you gonna open that up and see? 



Dan203 said:


> I'd be willing to bet it still uses a 2.5" drive.





Sixto said:


> But which one. It doesn't seem like there's a mainstream 2.5" 3TB AV drive available that we know of.


Wasn't there a 3TB Hitachi that people talked about using when the Bolt first came out?



JoE 15 said:


> Hey everyone, a little late to the party. So this is just a Bolt with 3TB and 6 Tuners? Is there HDR support or anything else?


Yeah as far as we can tell that's what it is, minus the OTA tuners. It's expected that HDR will be added to Bolts though.


----------



## abovethesink

So mine is coming Monday it looks like. My question is the particulars on setting up a MOCA network once I have it. I will have a Roamio Basic and the Bolt+. I believe I understand I can create the network using the Bolt+ and I need the adapter TiVo sells for the Roamio Basic, correct? Is there a cheaper version that will work? $80 seems a little nuts. Finally, I have no close neighbors, so do I still need a POE filter? If so, do I put it outside where the cable comes into the house? Thanks!


----------



## abovethesink

Oh and two more follow up questions:

I have an original run two tuner Premiere. As of now I am tucking it away to a closet, but if I bring it back can it connect via MoCA?

And are there adapters that can connect my desktop tower to the same network when it is running? It is far from my router so it is on wifi right now, but there is a cable line in the room literally right next to it that I do not use. Connecting to the network with it would be great.


----------



## krkaufman

abovethesink said:


> I believe I understand I can create the network using the Bolt+ and I need the adapter TiVo sells for the Roamio Basic, correct?


Correct.



abovethesink said:


> Is there a cheaper version that will work? $80 seems a little nuts.


See here:


krkaufman said:


> [*]Unfortunately, the recent Actiontec MoCA 2.0 sale has ended, but you might find the pricing links included in the following post useful for comparing products & prices:
> 
> 
> Actiontec MoCA adapters on Amazon
> Yitong MoCA 2.0 adapters on Amazon





abovethesink said:


> Finally, I have no close neighbors, so do I still need a POE filter? If so, do I put it outside where the cable comes into the house? Thanks!


Yes, you need to install a "PoE" MoCA filter, and, yes, you'd install it on your cable provider's coax line before it splits off into multiple runs, typically on the input to the splitter or amp in your cable box outside.


----------



## krkaufman

abovethesink said:


> I have an original run two tuner Premiere. As of now I am tucking it away to a closet, but if I bring it back can it connect via MoCA?


2-tuner Premieres are in the same boat as 4-tuner Roamios... no MoCA functionality... so it would need to be wired via Ethernet, either directly or with the assistance of a MoCA adapter.



abovethesink said:


> And are there adapters that can connect my desktop tower to the same network when it is running? It is far from my router so it is on wifi right now, but there is a cable line in the room literally right next to it that I do not use. Connecting to the network with it would be great.


MoCA adapter's aren't TiVo specific... so you'll definitely be able to use one to extend wired networking to your PC, so long as that coax outlet connects back to the rest of your MoCA-enabled coax lines. (Never want to assume the cables are connected.)

Bit more to come...


----------



## krkaufman

abovethesink said:


> So mine is coming Monday it looks like. My question is the particulars on setting up a MOCA network once I have it.


A few bonus notes re: selecting your MoCA adapters...

You don't *have* to use your new BOLT+ to create your MoCA network, if the BOLT's location makes it inconvenient; I'd recommend deciding where you want the BOLT optimally positioned for viewing, and then work out what you need to do to establish MoCA networking.

You don't need to buy a MoCA adapter for each and every device you need to connect, if multiple devices needing connectivity are co-located. In such a case, you could install a MoCA adapter connected to an isolated network switch and then connect all the devices to the switch.

If a BOLT DVR is only connected as a MoCA client (that is, configured to "Connect using MoCA," and NOT creating your MoCA network), you can use its otherwise-unused Ethernet port similar to a MoCA adapter to extend wired networking to other co-located Ethernet devices lacking a wired connection. And similar to what was mentioned just above, a network switch could be attached to the BOLT in this manner to extend wired Ethernet networking to multiple devices.

A MoCA network can consist of any mix of MoCA 1.1, standard MoCA 2.0 and extended/bonded MoCA 2.0 nodes, up to a maximum of 16 MoCA devices; many MoCA 1.0 devices will likely bring your MoCA network to its knees, so stick with the later specs. Further, MoCA is a point-to-point technology, and two MoCA nodes will communicate with each other at the highest MoCA spec supported by both nodes.

Keep this information in mind, along with the device MoCA specs listed below, when selecting your MoCA adapters for purchase. For example, if your BOLT is your main MoCA bridge, then you would probably want to stick with standard MoCA 2.0 adapters, throughout; however, if you were looking to maximize your potential MoCA network speeds, especially for the currently wireless PC you mentioned, you could use a bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter as your main bridge and another bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter to provide an <800 Mbps wired network connection for that PC.

Background info...

TiVo box MoCA capabilities...
The BOLT & BOLT+, 6-tuner Roamio & 4-tuner Premiere DVRs can all connect as Ethernet or MoCA clients, but are all also capable of creating a MoCA network, provided they can connect to both your shared coax lines and via Ethernet to your router's Ethernet LAN ports (though not necessarily directly)
TiVo Minis can network via either Ethernet or MoCA
4-tuner Roamio DVRs have no MoCA capabiliity and must be wired via Ethernet, possibly with the assistance of a MoCA adapter, to support TiVo whole home streaming


Device MoCA specs...
bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 (<800 Mbps):
Actiontec MoCA adapters: ECB6200, WCB6200Q

standard MoCA 2.0 (<400 Mbps):
TiVo BOLT/BOLT+
Actiontec MoCA adapters: ECB6000, WEB6000Q
Yitong MoCA adapters: YTMC-51N1-M2MoCA 1.1 (170 Mbps):
4-tuner TiVo Premiere***, 6-tuner TiVo Roamio
TiVo Mini (connect only; no bridging)
Actiontec MoCA adapters: ECB2500C***, WCB3000N

*** Note that for these tagged devices MoCA communication would still occur at the MoCA 1.1 spec'd rate (up to 170 Mbps, depending on conditions); however, the Fast Ethernet network ports of these devices will truncate the MoCA 1.1 170 Mbps potential bandwidth of the MoCA-Ethernet bridge down to Fast Ethernet's 100 Mbps.​

MoCA bridge bandwidth examples (a.k.a.'Buyer Beware!')...
_(click the 'Spoiler' button to reveal)_


Spoiler






krkaufman said:


> As an aside, if you're also researching MoCA as a mechanism to improve your home network's "backbone," know that there are 2 versions of MoCA devices currently available for cable TV/OTA: MoCA versions 1.1 and 2.0.
> 
> MoCA 1.1 is capable of 170 Mbps, but is often limited to 100 Mbps, in practice, by the Fast Ethernet port of the typical MoCA adapter. MoCA 2.0 is rated to <400 Mbps in standard mode, and up to <800 Mbps in extended or bonded mode (with available adapters correctly using Gigabit Ethernet ports!). Certified MoCA 2.0 devices are theoretically able to communicate at full MoCA 2.0 speeds with other MoCA 2.0 peers, even with MoCA 1.1 devices present.
> Some example Ethernet-to-MoCA bridges and their theoretical bridge rates (to my knowledge):
> Actiontec ECB2500C (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
> Channel Master CM-6001 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
> Channel Master CM-6004 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
> "Verizon" MI424-WR Rev. F (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
> TiVo Premiere 4/XL4 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
> 
> Actiontec ECB3500T (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
> Actiontec WCB3000N (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
> "Verizon" MI424-WR Rev. I (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
> TiVo Roamio Plus/Pro (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
> 
> TiVo BOLT (std MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <400 Mbps
> Actiontec ECB6000 (std MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <400 Mbps
> ..._(announced "TiVo Bridge" is rebranded ECB6000)_
> Quantum Gateway G1100 (std MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <400 Mbps
> 
> Actiontec ECB6200 (ext MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <800 Mbps
> Actiontec WCB6200Q (ext MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <800 Mbps
> 
> Comcast XB2/XB3 Gateways (MoCA 2.0 ???, internal) => ???
> 
> * NOTE: Estimated rates assume equivalent MoCA peer.​For reference:
> TiVo Mini v1,v2 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => connect-only via MoCA; cannot bridge!
> TiVo Roamio base & OTA (n/a, FastE) => no built-in MoCA capability​





edit: Updated MoCA 2.0 data rate limits


----------



## ej42137

I got an email from Weaknees today offering combinations of Bolt+ and expansion drives up to 11TB total. One interesting thing they mentioned was that the 2.5" 3TB HD in a Bolt+ was physically larger than the 1TB or 500GB in a Bolt, and that the drive used in a Bolt+ would not fit in a Bolt chassis. Moreover, although there are 3TB 2.5" drives that would fit, they are archive drives not suitable for continuous writing.


----------



## Sixto

ej42137 said:


> I got an email from Weaknees today offering combinations of Bolt+ and expansion drives up to 11TB total. One interesting thing they mentioned was that the 2.5" 3TB HD in a Bolt+ was physically larger than the 1TB or 500GB in a Bolt, and that the drive used in a Bolt+ would not fit in a Bolt chassis. Moreover, although there are 3TB 2.5" drives that would fit, they are archive drives not suitable for continuous writing.


Did it specifically say that it was 2.5" in the Bolt+ or just that it was larger, as in maybe it's 3.5", thus physically larger.


----------



## atmuscarella

Sixto said:


> Did it specifically say that it was 2.5" in the Bolt+ or just that it was larger, as in maybe it's 3.5", thus physically larger.


In part this is what the email said:

"The Top Current WeaKnees Questions Answered!

Will WeaKnees be offering kits for the TiVo BOLT PLUS?
Yes, we are offering external upgrade kits for the Bolt and Bolt Plus. As with prior external drives, we need to get the Bolt at our facility to pair the external with the internal. Since the BOLT uses smaller laptop drives, the maximum internal capacity is not likely to exceed 3TB.

Can the original BOLT be upgraded with a 3TB (or higher) internal drive?
We currently offer 2TB internal upgrades for the original (white) Bolt. The 3TB that is in the Bolt Plus is physically larger than the factory Bolt drives and therefore won't fit in the Bolt Plus. Small form-factor drives do exist that are larger than 2TB, but these drives are made for external USB backup enclosures and use a drive technology that is not made for constant reading/writing. When the Bolt first launched, we had a long conversation with a drive engineer about using 3TB and 4TB drives in the Bolt and we were told quite clearly that the drives would not be reliable long term. For that reason, we decided not to offer them in the Bolt.

How does the BOLT PLUS differ from the Roamio Pro?
Both have 6 tuners and come with a 3TB internal drive from the factory. The Roamio Pro, however, can support far larger internal drives (up to 8TB) and up to 16TB total. The Pro, unlike the Bolt, does not support 4K. "


----------



## Sixto

atmuscarella said:


> ... The 3TB that is in the Bolt Plus is physically larger than the factory Bolt drives ...


I'm hoping that means it's 3.5" and they re-designed the internals to accommodate. I guess we'll find out soon. Thanks for the info.


----------



## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> ...
> 
> "The Top Current WeaKnees Questions Answered!
> ...
> 
> How does the BOLT PLUS differ from the Roamio Pro?
> Both have 6 tuners and come with a 3TB internal drive from the factory. The Roamio Pro, however, can support far larger internal drives (up to 8TB) and up to 16TB total. The Pro, unlike the Bolt, does not support 4K. "


Looking at your email excerpt and the following info from the Weaknees BOLT+ page...
Key Features of TiVo BOLT PLUS:

6 Tuners!
4K (currently limited to Netflix and YouTube)
SkipMode - True commercial skip!
QuickMode - Watch shows at 30% faster speeds, with pitch correction
Faster than older models
Small form factor
Updated TiVo Remote with RF
Compatible with TiVo Minis (although Minis cannot display 4K)
TiVo Service Required and Sold Separately​... it really seems like Weaknees is avoiding the topic of mobile streaming, where the BOLTs have taken a step backward relative to the Roamio Plus/Pro (along w/ form factor limiting DIY drive upgrades).

And apparently they don't see the MoCA and Wi-Fi upgrades in the BOLT line as worth noting, either -- though I'd think they'd want to push people towards using MoCA, given they're charging $13 for a PoE MoCA filter.


----------



## tlc

If you already have a Tivo Stream, will it play with the Bolt family?


----------



## thyname

tlc said:


> If you already have a Tivo Stream, will it play with the Bolt family?


You don't need a TiVo Stream with the Bolt family. It is built in.


----------



## krkaufman

thyname said:


> tlc said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you already have a Tivo Stream, will it play with the Bolt family?
> 
> 
> 
> You don't need a TiVo Stream with the Bolt family. It is built in.
Click to expand...

Well, "need" is user-dependent per requirements (i.e. wants)... so if a family wants to be able to have 2+ concurrent out-of-home mobile streams or more than 2 in-home mobile streams active, then the built-in mobile streaming capabilities of the BOLT series fall short... making the OP's question relevant.

So, with a only single BOLT/BOLT+ DVR and a standalone TiVo Stream on the wired home network, how many simultaneous in-home and out-of-home mobile streams are possible?


----------



## atmuscarella

krkaufman said:


> So, with a only single BOLT/BOLT+ DVR and a standalone TiVo Stream on the wired home network, how many simultaneous in-home and out-of-home mobile streams are possible?


Well I have a Bolt and a stand alone stream on my Network so I thought I would test this again.

Result is there is some very good news on this front! I currently have shows from my Bolt streaming to 2 computers and one android tablet. The first 2 computers used the Bolt's built in streaming abilities, which I determined because my tablet gave me a message that I have reach the 2 stream limit when I first tried it. Then I went into the android apps settings and re-setup streaming, it found 2 devices on my Network and this time I selected the stand alone stream instead of the Bolt and I was able to start the third stream, after that I went to another computer and tried to start a forth stream, which did not work without one of the other computer going off line.

This is a change - I tested this back in December or January and it did not work this way. Can not test iOS but I would guess it works the same way as android, so depending on what type of devices one wants to use a Stand Alone Stream maybe useful with a a Bolt and I will assume also a Bolt +


----------



## InVision

Supposedly, it is now total tuners less one stream. Not sure about OOH streams.

M


----------



## abovethesink

Speaking of the stream feature, I have never had it so I never paid any attention to it. I know with TWC all my channels will be flagged except for ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, and PBS, but what does that mean exactly? Questions:

1) Can I stream flagged content within my home network? I know I can't out of home. 

2) What devices can shows be downloaded to for when we are traveling without internet, a la on a plane? We have an Android tablet running Lollipop, a Windows 8 laptop, and a Chromebook. I guess we have two Android phones running Marshmallow too, but I can't imagine watching TV on a phone. Maybe the wife will.

3) Is there a work around for the copy protected shows? A user hack? A sideload system where it gets deleted from the source afterward? Anything?

4) Can I stream to my Chromebook at all?

Thanks!


----------



## aaronwt

ej42137 said:


> I got an email from Weaknees today offering combinations of Bolt+ and expansion drives up to 11TB total. One interesting thing they mentioned was that the 2.5" 3TB HD in a Bolt+ was physically larger than the 1TB or 500GB in a Bolt, and that the drive used in a Bolt+ would not fit in a Bolt chassis. Moreover, although there are 3TB 2.5" drives that would fit, they are archive drives not suitable for continuous writing.


It's just thicker. The 4TB drives I have in my Bolts are 15mm thick. While 1TB and smaller are 9mm or 7mm thick.

I had no problem putting my 15mm thick 4TB drives in Bolts. They just fit in there. And have been in use in Bolts since October 2015.

the 4TB drives I have in my Bolts use the same technology as the smaller capacity 1TB and 500GB drives. They are not archive, SMR drives. They are traditional PMR drives.


----------



## aaronwt

Sixto said:


> I'm hoping that means it's 3.5" and they re-designed the internals to accommodate. I guess we'll find out soon. Thanks for the info.


Not possible when the Bolt and the Bolt+ have identical dimensions and identical weights. A 3.5" drive is much, much heavier than a 2.5" drive.


----------



## Dan203

InVision said:


> Supposedly, it is now total tuners less one stream. Not sure about OOH streams.
> 
> M


That's for streaming to a Mini, and has always been the case.

When streaming to a PC or Tablet it has to transcode the video. The Bolt uses it's internal Broadcom chipset to do that transcode which is limited to 2 simultaneous transcodes. Roamio Plus/Pro units had a separate chip in the case that was essentially the same hardware as the standalone Stream unit and could do 4 transcodes at a time. The hardware in the Roamio Plus/Pro could also be shared with other TiVos on your network, just like a standalone Stream. So a Premiere or Roamio Basic, which does not have the internal Stream hardware, could use the chip inside a Roamio Plus/Pro on the same network to stream.

Until recently a Bolt could NOT use the chip in a Roamio Plus/Pro or standalone Stream to transcode. It could only use it's own internal chip. So you could never have more then 2 streams going. But apparently they've changed that so you can use the chip in a Roamio Plus/Pro or standalone Stream to bypass the 2 stream limit.


----------



## Dan203

atmuscarella said:


> Well I have a Bolt and a stand alone stream on my Network so I thought I would test this again.
> 
> Result is there is some very good news on this front! I currently have shows from my Bolt streaming to 2 computers and one android tablet. The first 2 computers used the Bolt's built in streaming abilities, which I determined because my tablet gave me a message that I have reach the 2 stream limit when I first tried it. Then I went into the android apps settings and re-setup streaming, it found 2 devices on my Network and this time I selected the stand alone stream instead of the Bolt and I was able to start the third stream, after that I went to another computer and tried to start a forth stream, which did not work without one of the other computer going off line.
> 
> This is a change - I tested this back in December or January and it did not work this way. Can not test iOS but I would guess it works the same way as android, so depending on what type of devices one wants to use a Stand Alone Stream maybe useful with a a Bolt and I will assume also a Bolt +


I just confirmed this. I setup my Bolt to use the Stream in my Roamio Pro. I was able to play 3 streams from it, but when I tried a 4th I got an error. This was using an iPad and 3 PCs for testing.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> That's for streaming to a Mini, and has always been the case.
> 
> When streaming to a PC or Tablet it has to transcode the video. The Bolt uses it's internal Broadcom chipset to do that transcode which is limited to 2 simultaneous transcodes. Roamio Plus/Pro units had a separate chip in the case that was essentially the same hardware as the standalone Stream unit and could do 4 transcodes at a time. The hardware in the Roamio Plus/Pro could also be shared with other TiVos on your network, just like a standalone Stream. So a Premiere or Roamio Basic, which does not have the internal Stream hardware, could use the chip inside a Roamio Plus/Pro on the same network to stream.
> 
> Until recently a Bolt could NOT use the chip in a Roamio Plus/Pro or standalone Stream to transcode. It could only use it's own internal chip. So you could never have more then 2 streams going. But apparently they've changed that so you can use the chip in a Roamio Plus/Pro or standalone Stream to bypass the 2 stream limit.


It's been this way for a long time hasn't it? Back when the Bolt was limited to one in home stream, at some point this was activated. Because I remember at first thinking they had activated two streams from the Bolt. But then realized the second stream was actually being sent from my Bolt to my Roamio Pro to be processed.


----------



## Dan203

I don't remember. I know I tried using the Stream in my Roamio Pro at some point and it didn't work. I don't know when the update occurred that allowed it to work. 

I wonder if there is a 3 stream limit for all units? I've never tried to stream 4 things simultaneously from my Roamio Pro.


----------



## atmuscarella

Dan203 said:


> I just confirmed this. I setup my Bolt to use the Stream in my Roamio Pro. I was able to play 3 streams from it, but when I tried a 4th I got an error. This was using an iPad and 3 PCs for testing.


I think the issue for PCs is there is no option to tell the software to switch to a Stand Alone Stream or one built into a Roamio Plus/Pro like there is in the iOS and Android software, so it is always using the Stream built into the Bolt and has the 2 stream limit.

We need someone to try it that has access to multiple iOS or android devices along with PCs.

*Edit: *Ok borrowed another android phone - now have 4 devices streaming from my Bolt in my house. 2 computers & 2 android devices setup to use my Stand Alone stream. No way to get anymore android or iOS devices so no idea if I could go all the way to 6 streams or not.


----------



## Dan203

atmuscarella said:


> I think the issue for PCs is there is no option to tell the software to switch to a Stand Alone Stream or one built into a Roamio Plus/Pro like there is in the iOS and Android software, so it is always using the Stream built into the Bolt and has the 2 stream limit.
> 
> We need someone to try it that has access to multiple iOS or android devices along with PCs.


You seem to be right. I just threw my phone into the mix and was able to get two PCs, my iPad and my iPhone all playing different streams from the Bolt. Both the iPad and iPhone were setup to use the Stream inside the Roamio.

I tried to throw the Kindle Fire tablet I have into the mix too, but it's battery was dead.


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> That's for streaming to a Mini, and has always been the case.


Ha!, thanks so much for that comment. I only scanned a few of the followup posts earlier, not having much time, and couldn't figure out what that "total tuners less 1 stream" statement meant. Focused on mobile streaming my brain couldn't make the leap. Thank you.


----------



## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> Then I went into the android apps settings and re-setup streaming, it found 2 devices on my Network and this time I selected the stand alone stream instead of the Bolt and I was able to start the third stream, after that I went to another computer and tried to start a forth stream, which did not work without one of the other computer going off line.





Dan203 said:


> I just confirmed this. I setup my Bolt to use the Stream in my Roamio Pro. I was able to play 3 streams from it, but when I tried a 4th I got an error. This was using an iPad and 3 PCs for testing.


Thanks to Dan203 & atmuscarella for testing this out. (further comments removed owing to RTFT)


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> I tried to throw the Kindle Fire tablet I have into the mix too, but it's battery was dead.


dangit!! 

Thanks, guys.


----------



## DigitalDawn

When you folks are streaming to a PC I'm assuming you are using TiVo online and watching content in a browser.

Has anyone figured out a way to watch programs in a small browser window on top of other Windows applications? I tried this when the feature first came out, and I could never get it to work properly. The image would not be positioned properly in a small window.


----------



## Steve

Setting up my Bolt+ now. First thing it did was download a software update, which is being installed as we speak. Will be interesting to see if it's the newly reported 20.6.1.5, rc7, or the previous release.


----------



## Steve

It took 3 different firmware downloads, each progressively smaller, and one guide data download to get up and running. Firmware is 20.6.1.5.RC7.


----------



## HarperVision

Steve said:


> Setting up my Bolt+ now. First thing it did was download a software update, which is being installed as we speak. Will be interesting to see if it's the newly reported 20.6.1.5, rc7, or the previous release.





Steve said:


> It took 3 different firmware downloads, each progressively smaller, and one guide data download to get up and running. Firmware is 20.6.1.6.RC7.


I had the exact same experience. Did you have any issues with your ethernet connection?


----------



## thyname

Steve: Thanks for the update.

Mine is shipped from WeaKnees and UPS shows arriving on Friday.

I dread swapping the CableCard from the "old" Bolt to Bolt+. Hopefully, I'll get a Verizon CSR who know how to pair the CableCard with the new TiVo. I know they are going to say the CableCard is activated, although we all know it does not mean it is paired, and will need to be paired.


----------



## Steve

HarperVision said:


> I had the exact same experience. Did you have any issues with your ethernet connection?


Haven't tried yet. It's connected MoCa to my 2TB Bolt, which is the current gateway. Once I finish transferring shows, I'll move the + into the gateway location.


----------



## Steve

thyname said:


> Steve: Thanks for the update.
> 
> Mine is shipped from WeaKnees and UPS shows arriving on Friday.
> 
> I dread swapping the CableCard from the "old" Bolt to Bolt+. Hopefully, I'll get a Verizon CSR who know how to pair the CableCard with the new TiVo. I know they are going to say the CableCard is activated, although we all know it does not mean it is paired, and will need to be paired.


Ya. They'll need to update the HOST ID in their system with the new Bolt +'s HOST ID. If you have more than one cablecard now, make sure you write down the PKK number before you close up the Bolt. Cablevision couldn't differentiate between my two cablecards in their system. Had to re-open the Bolt. PITA.


----------



## Steve

BTW, I edited post 254 above. Firmware is 20.6.1.5, rc7.


----------



## Steve

All this going on at once:

I'm in the midst of unpacking a huge guide update. It's been going on for about a half hour and is just at 90%.
I've got 5 HD recordings going.
I'm watching a 6th live HD channel.
I just set up streaming on my iPhone and I'm streaming a recording as well.
I'm transferring recordings from my Bolt.
Except for maybe data unpacking taking a little longer, everything else seems to be working as if it the box was otherwise idle.

*ETA: *Unpacking done, guide data out to 10/3. How accurate it is, we'll have to see.


----------



## aaronwt

thyname said:


> Steve: Thanks for the update.
> 
> Mine is shipped from WeaKnees and UPS shows arriving on Friday.
> 
> I dread swapping the CableCard from the "old" Bolt to Bolt+. Hopefully, I'll get a Verizon CSR who know how to pair the CableCard with the new TiVo. I know they are going to say the CableCard is activated, although we all know it does not mean it is paired, and will need to be paired.


if you have a FiOS store close by, the easiest method is to just order a new cable card. Pick it up from the FiOS store, then just automatically activate it after installing it in the Bolt+. You can do it over the phone or on the Internet and enter all the info requested. Less likely to have issues than when dealing with a CSR/tech.

Then just run the Bolt+ in tandem with the old Bolt for a week or two to make sure everything is fine. And then return the old cable card to FIOS. This can eliminate a lot of potential headaches.


----------



## thyname

aaronwt said:


> if you have a FiOS store close by, the easiest method is to just order a new cable card. Pick it up from the FiOS store, then just automatically activate it after installing it in the Bolt+. You can do it over the phone or on the Internet and enter all the info requested. Less likely to have issues than when dealing with a CSR/tech.
> 
> Then just run the Bolt+ in tandem with the old Bolt for a week or two to make sure everything is fine. And then return the old cable card to FIOS. This can eliminate a lot of potential headaches.


That's a good idea. Either that, or I am thinking somebody from Verizon Direct over at DSL Reports can do a chat. They appear to be much better than the usual phone CSRs.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Got my Bolt+ a couple hours ago. Setup was easy but it did go thru several downloads as previously mentioned. Getting my recordings transferred over but still waiting for the Bolt+ to show up in Tivo Online to copy over OP and Wishlists. The black Bolt+ sure looks better than the white regular Bolt. 

So far so good....


----------



## Steve

SCSIRAID said:


> Got my Bolt+ a couple hours ago. Setup was easy but it did go thru several downloads as previously mentioned. Getting my recordings transferred over but still waiting for the Bolt+ to show up in Tivo Online to copy over OP and Wishlists. The black Bolt+ sure looks better than the white regular Bolt.
> 
> So far so good....


FWIW, I had to log out and log back in to online.tivo.com before the new box appeared.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Steve said:


> FWIW, I had to log out and log back in to online.tivo.com before the new box appeared.


That did it... I was closing the page and then coming back in thru Tivo.com but was not getting logged out. Logging out and back in solved the problem.

Thanks!!!!


----------



## thyname

Did you guys call or did the activation with TiVo online? Did that take too long?

I am hoping they could transfer my remaining 7-8 month subscription on my Bolt to the new Bolt+ . I called last week to probe, and they said the "advanced billing dept." can do that, but not always.


----------



## SCSIRAID

thyname said:


> Did you guys call or did the activation with TiVo online? Did that take too long?
> 
> I am hoping they could transfer my remaining 7-8 month subscription on my Bolt to the new Bolt+ . I called last week to probe, and they said the "advanced billing dept." can do that, but not always.


I ordered from TiVo directly so the unit was already activated. It showed up on my account with the TSN before I even received it.


----------



## HarperVision

thyname said:


> Did you guys call or did the activation with TiVo online? Did that take too long? I am hoping they could transfer my remaining 7-8 month subscription on my Bolt to the new Bolt+ . I called last week to probe, and they said the "advanced billing dept." can do that, but not always.


I did mine online right after I received it at work and then a few hours later when I got home and set it up it connected and showed it was active. I connected to TiVo and rebooted all my minis too and they saw the new Bolt+ as well.


----------



## Steve

SCSIRAID said:


> I ordered from TiVo directly so the unit was already activated. It showed up on my account with the TSN before I even received it.


Ditto. I was even able to put it on the priority s/w upgrade queue before it was delivered.


----------



## Sixto

Wow, it's so tiny compared to the Roamio Pro next to it.

Trying to get it all going prior to switching the cablecard. Will see how this goes.

Ethernet seems to be working fine.


----------



## Sixto

Sixto said:


> Wow, it's so tiny compared to the Roamio Pro next to it.
> 
> Trying to get it all going prior to switching the cablecard. Will see how this goes.
> 
> Ethernet seems to be working fine.


All came up fine, rebooted a couple of times.

The UI is different, more HD screens.

Will move a bunch of recording before moving the cablecard.

Again, wow it's small. I sure hope this hard disk is reliable.

As someone mentioned, Netflix stays connected as you bounce back-and-forth to the TiVo screens.


----------



## JOSHSKORN

I just ordered a Bolt+ today. Was having problems with my Bolt, which could be fixed if I just use the original HDD or probably buy a WD Red Drive, but I needed the extra space and tuners, anyway, and didn't want to spend money on a HDD that "might" work for me, since it worked for someone else.

My 1 year service on my Bolt is up in December, and I was planning on buying Lifetime service, anyway. Will my current service transfer from my Bolt to my Bolt+, would anyone know?


----------



## thyname

JOSHSKORN said:


> My 1 year service on my Bolt is up in December, and I was planning on buying Lifetime service, anyway. Will my current service transfer from my Bolt to my Bolt+, would anyone know?


See my post above, this very thread. Post #266. I guess I will know on Friday


----------



## JOSHSKORN

thyname said:


> See my post above, this very thread. Post #266. I guess I will know on Friday


Thank you, keep us posted.


----------



## Steve

HarperVision said:


> I had the exact same experience. Did you have any issues with your ethernet connection?


Moved it into the living room (gateway connection) this morning. I had previously set it up for MoCa only, but it seems to have auto-sensed the cat-5 connection. I'm surprised I didn't have to change anything. I checked, and connected clients can see the internet, so I guess all is good!


----------



## SCSIRAID

The only issue I had with the setup was using Tivo online to transfer the OP and Wishlists. Tivo Online made a horrific mess that I had to spend a lot of time cleaning up. I have 92 OP and Wishlists. 
- Wishlists names didnt transfer... had to reenter. wish terms were good though
- Wishlist recording options didnt transfer.. had to adjust
- I was transferring a chunk at a time and when It got over 50 it scrambled the order of everything.


----------



## HarperVision

Steve said:


> Moved it into the living room (gateway connection) this morning. I had previously set it up for MoCa only, but it seems to have auto-sensed the cat-5 connection. I'm surprised I didn't have to change anything. I checked, and connected clients can see the internet, so I guess all is good!


I think that's because you already had it go through all the setup and connections. Mine was fresh out of the box and didn't work fully until after it connected a bunch of times and was done setup.


----------



## Dan203

SCSIRAID said:


> The only issue I had with the setup was using Tivo online to transfer the OP and Wishlists. Tivo Online made a horrific mess that I had to spend a lot of time cleaning up. I have 92 OP and Wishlists.
> - Wishlists names didnt transfer... had to reenter. wish terms were good though
> - Wishlist recording options didnt transfer.. had to adjust
> - I was transferring a chunk at a time and when It got over 50 it scrambled the order of everything.


FYI the kmttg app does a much better job at this.


----------



## JOSHSKORN

My Bolt+ came today, I supposedly activated it through the website, but I can't find it. I paid for the lifetime subscription, and the payment shows on my credit card. I have not received an E-mail confirming payment received from TiVo, though.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Dan203 said:


> FYI the kmttg app does a much better job at this.


I tried kmttg previously but could never figure it out.


----------



## Steve

SCSIRAID said:


> The only issue I had with the setup was using Tivo online to transfer the OP and Wishlists. Tivo Online made a horrific mess that I had to spend a lot of time cleaning up. I have 92 OP and Wishlists.
> - Wishlists names didnt transfer... had to reenter. wish terms were good though
> - Wishlist recording options didnt transfer.. had to adjust
> - I was transferring a chunk at a time and when It got over 50 it scrambled the order of everything.


FWIW, I moved my 89 OPs and 1 Wishlist over in one swell foop. Took about 5 minutes to populate on the +, but it seemed to keep things in order. I wonder if moving in chunks doesn't work as expected?

I was also happy to see that copying recordings using online.tivo.com appears to be working again, Bolt>Bolt+. Not sure if they fixed it on the server, or if it was due to 20.6.1.5, rc7 on the +. Prior to this, I couldn't use the web to move shows Bolt>Bolt, both on the 1a release.


----------



## thyname

I received my Bolt+ today. Spent about two hours to set it up and swap it with my old Bolt in my entertainment center. Luckily, pairing went well via Verizon Direct chat. The tech was familiar with CableCard but not with pairing and manual revalidation. But after I explained him, he found it on his "manual" and did it with no issues. Thank God he was not cocky , willing to listen, and patient.

Nothing new about anything, as I already had a Bolt, and was familiar with everything.

I noticed the SNRs are high (about 38/39 on QAM256), and worried a bit, but so far so good. No pixelation or freezing issues.

Transferred all season passes, and a couple of recordings I had left.

Awesome to have 6 tuners. No more conflicts in my household!


----------



## JOSHSKORN

thyname said:


> I received my Bolt+ today. Spent about two hours to set it up and swap it with my old Bolt in my entertainment center. Luckily, pairing went well via Verizon Direct chat. The tech was familiar with CableCard but not with pairing and manual revalidation. But after I explained him, he found it on his "manual" and did it with no issues. Thank God he was not cocky , willing to listen, and patient.
> 
> Nothing new about anything, as I already had a Bolt, and was familiar with everything.
> 
> I noticed the SNRs are high (about 38/39 on QAM256), and worried a bit, but so far so good. No pixelation or freezing issues.
> 
> Transferred all season passes, and a couple of recordings I had left.
> 
> Awesome to have 6 tuners. No more conflicts in my household!


I'll be calling TiVo support tomorrow. I swapped my cable card from my Bolt to my Bolt+ and I can view TV no problem, but when I was trying to activate my Bolt+ online and pay for the service, something funky went on with my A Kaspersky browser. It took my payment but didn't activate my Bolt+. I don't know if giving it the same name was a problem or not.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## thyname

JOSHSKORN said:


> I'll be calling TiVo support tomorrow. I swapped my cable card from my Bolt to my Bolt+ and I can view TV no problem, but when I was trying to activate my Bolt+ online and pay for the service, something funky went on with my A Kaspersky browser. It took my payment but didn't activate my Bolt+. I don't know if giving it the same name was a problem or not.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


You are supposed to activate it first (online or over the phone) before turning it on and following the steps.


----------



## JOSHSKORN

thyname said:


> You are supposed to activate it first (online or over the phone) before turning it on and following the steps.


That's exactly what I tried to do. I entered my TSN, selected my plan and confirmed, then the Kaspersky window popped up, it wanted to pay again.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## thyname

JOSHSKORN said:


> That's exactly what I tried to do. I entered my TSN, selected my plan and confirmed, then the Kaspersky window popped up, it wanted to pay again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


When you log in to your TiVo account, do you see Bolt+ listed?


----------



## JOSHSKORN

thyname said:


> When you log in to your TiVo account, do you see Bolt+ listed?


Nope

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## thyname

It is possible your payment did not go through. I would wait until tomorrow and try from another browser. Better yet, wait until they open at 11 AM Eastern, and call them


----------



## JOSHSKORN

thyname said:


> It is possible your payment did not go through. I would wait until tomorrow and try from another browser. Better yet, wait until they open at 11 AM Eastern, and call them


Yes I will call them, like I said I'd do. My payment was marked as pending by my credit card company.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## slowbiscuit

thyname said:


> You don't need a TiVo Stream with the Bolt family. It is built in.


But you will need to buy a Slingbox if you want to do any serious streaming OOH given the sad state of the Tivo mobile apps.


----------



## RichB

Does the Bolt+ support HDMI 2.0a UHD?

- Rich


----------



## Steve

thyname said:


> No more conflicts in my household!


You're lucky. Even with the Bolt+, the Mrs. and I still argue!


----------



## Steve

slowbiscuit said:


> But you will need to buy a Slingbox if you want to do any serious streaming OOH given the sad state of the Tivo mobile apps.


I have no problems streaming with the iOS apps or online.tivo.com. And the remote management capabilities are awesome too, IMHO.


----------



## Steve

RichB said:


> Does the Bolt+ support HDMI 2.0a UHD?


Not yet, AFAIK.


----------



## thyname

slowbiscuit said:


> But you will need to buy a Slingbox if you want to do any serious streaming OOH given the sad state of the Tivo mobile apps.


And why so? Works fine on my iPhone for my new Bolt+ right now at the dealership while waiting for my car to be serviced. My Bolt 500 gb worked fine as well.


----------



## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> But you will need to buy a Slingbox if you want to do any serious streaming OOH given the sad state of the Tivo mobile apps.


What's wrong with the OOH streaming? I specifically stopped using my Slingbox because the built In streaming from the Bolt(or Roamio Pro) is so good OOH with my Android devices.


----------



## RichB

aaronwt said:


> You need to use the ARC with a receiver/speaker bar that is capable of receiving DD+ over the ARC. If the LG TVs can send DD+ over the ARC(like the 2016 Vizios can do) then you will be able to get Atmos from the Vudu UHD titles from the built in app..


I have not read a confirmation that the 2015 LG OLEDs pass DD+ via ARC.

- Rich


----------



## RichB

RichB said:


> Does the Bolt+ support HDMI 2.0a UHD?
> 
> - Rich





Steve said:


> Not yet, AFAIK.


The Bolt+ show HDMI 2.0, 2.0a is required for HDR. I am not sure if this is software upgradable either.

How many TiVo minis can be supported by the Bolt+?

I have to ask the questions here because the TiVo web site is a mess. This type of information could be in a single table.

- Rich


----------



## HarperVision

RichB said:


> The Bolt+ show HDMI 2.0, 2.0a is required for HDR. I am not sure if this is software upgradable either.
> 
> How many TiVo minis can be supported by the Bolt+? I have to ask the questions here because the TiVo web site is a mess.
> 
> This type of information could be in a single table.
> 
> - Rich


The Bolt and Bolt+ both have the needed hardware for 2.0a and HDR. Yes it's FW upgradable per a higher up TiVo rep that I quoted here and started a thread for. I'll see if I can find it if I get a chance here at work. He also confirmed that they will upgrade at some point soon.

iirc, newer TiVo DVRs can be mated to a max of 11 minis, but of course live tv on each mini is limited to whatever number of tuners the host DVR has, minus one that's saved for the DVR itself. So a 4 tuner will stream live tv to 3 minis, and a 6 tuner to 5 minis.


----------



## HarperVision

Here it is: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=11001876#post11001876


> *Jim Denney, TiVo:*
> As for high dynamic range, Denney said the platform is the same as Bolt. It is capable of doing the SMPTE standard (ST.2084/2086) of HDR. But how HDR comes out is still being evaluated. There is a SMPTE standard for HDR, which the platform is capable of and there will be a software update a little later that will turn that on.
> 
> He explained the Bolt boxes have the hardware to support HDMI 2.0a outputs needed to send HDR 10 metadata to HDR-capable displays, and firmware to enable 2.0a functionality will be sent along with the software updates for HDR format support.


----------



## slowbiscuit

aaronwt said:


> What's wrong with the OOH streaming? I specifically stopped using my Slingbox because the built In streaming from the Bolt(or Roamio Pro) is so good OOH with my Android devices.


It's a total crapshoot - works fine for the lucky few, worthless for everyone else (including me on a Nexus 6 w/Android 6). Can't even do downloads in-home because most of them bomb out part way through.

I'm not the only one mentioning this btw.


----------



## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> It's a total crapshoot - works fine for the lucky few, worthless for everyone else (including me on a Nexus 6 w/Android 6). Can't even do downloads in-home because most of them bomb out part way through.
> 
> I'm not the only one mentioning this btw.


I only know that with my Galaxy S6, Galaxy Tab S 10.5, and my two google Nexus 7 tablets(2013), OOH streaming has consistently been solid.

I had been using it a lot over the past couple months while my Dad was in the hospital and in a rehabilitation center.


----------



## InVision

slowbiscuit said:


> It's a total crapshoot - works fine for the lucky few, worthless for everyone else (including me on a Nexus 6 w/Android 6). Can't even do downloads in-home because most of them bomb out part way through.
> 
> I'm not the only one mentioning this btw.


Now that I have a bolt + I have been testing this on iPhone 6s, iPhone 6, iPad Pro
and iPad Air 2. Not one issue so far (knock, knock). I don't have any droids at all so I can not comment at all. As far as our Apple arsenal, nothing to report.

M


----------



## HarperVision

InVision said:


> Now that I have a bolt + I have been testing this on iPhone 6s, iPhone 6, iPad Pro and iPad Air 2. Not one issue so far (knock, knock). * I don't have any droids at all so I can not comment at all. *As far as our Apple arsenal, nothing to report. M


Uh huh.....that's what Poe tried to tell Kylo too, pal!


----------



## InVision

hehe


----------



## H.I.McDunnough

I have TWC in Austin, currently using Roamio. My setup requires a separate tuning adapter where the cable cards are located. Does anyone know if I'll still need the tuning adapter, or can I get rid of it and install the cable card in the Bolt+ that I just purchased? Thanks.


----------



## thyname

H.I.McDunnough said:


> I have TWC in Austin, currently using Roamio. My setup requires a separate tuning adapter where the cable cards are located. Does anyone know if I'll still need the tuning adapter, or can I get rid of it and install the cable card in the Bolt+ that I just purchased? Thanks.


If you needed tuning adapter with Roamio, nothing changes - you still need it with Bolt+.

Tuning adapter is needed to get the SDV channels.

CableCard is inserted inside TiVo (Roamio and Bolt), not inside the tuning adapter.

https://support.tivo.com/articles/F...l-a-Tuning-Adapter-for-Switched-Digital-Video


----------



## slowbiscuit

aaronwt said:


> I only know that with my Galaxy S6, Galaxy Tab S 10.5, and my two google Nexus 7 tablets(2013), OOH streaming has consistently been solid.
> 
> I had been using it a lot over the past couple months while my Dad was in the hospital and in a rehabilitation center.


Everything always works for you aaron, there's nothing new here. You are the anointed one.


----------



## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> Everything always works for you aaron, there's nothing new here. You are the anointed one.


I wish that were true. I've just always had a robust network and internet connection. Especially important since I easily have over one hundred devices on my home network now.


----------



## Kabookie

Ok purchased a bolt +. Cable card only needed from charter although he brought along a video converter. 

Issue I'm having is finding IR receptor. TiVo is completely lost with such a simple question. Because this box is black the TiVo guy is silver so don't think it's behind there. Did anyone find it?


Also thinking of getting a couple mini's. Does anyone know location of the IR receptor now the the moved TiVo Mini to the middle of the box?


----------



## krkaufman

Kabookie said:


> Ok purchased a bolt +. Cable card only needed from charter although he brought along a video converter.


Video converter? Or SDV tuning adapter?



Kabookie said:


> Issue I'm having is finding IR receptor. TiVo is completely lost with such a simple question. Because this box is black the TiVo guy is silver so don't think it's behind there. Did anyone find it?


It's behind the TiVo guy in the 4-tuner BOLT (see this thread), and I don't see them changing it for the +. (Basically, don't assume it isn't there. Have you tried it?)



Kabookie said:


> Also thinking of getting a couple mini's. Does anyone know location of the IR receptor now the the moved TiVo Mini to the middle of the box?


Per this thread, the IR sensor in the Mini v2 should be just to the left of the "T" in the 'TiVo Mini' label on the front of the device.

It sure would be handy if there were a single page, somewhere, listing the IR locations for all the TiVo devices.


----------



## HarperVision

Why do you need the IR anyway? The Bolt and the Mini V2 use RF as their main communication method with the remote. Are you trying to use it with a Slingbox or something?


----------



## Kabookie

Yes trying to use a harmony remote. I tried behind the TiVo logo no go. Yes whatever you call the video thing I did not need it which I'm happy. The last thing I wanted is another box more cabling and a wall wort


----------



## Kabookie

Thanks for the info on the mini this I did get from a tech just wanted to verify. I have three more charter boxes and I figure if I replace after the TiVo monthly it will save me like $35/mo. 

Back to the bolt+ can't seem to find it. I have the TiVo set to IR and the harmony only does IR. I've put two thicknesses of the blue painters tape across the whole front and it still switches. Tried just covering the logo with my thumb still works. Used my whole firearm to cover the whole front still works. Placed bluray covers on top but did not cover the front still works?????


----------



## Kabookie

This thing took quite sometime to set up. But I think I got it except for the IR issue. So far picture quality is about the same as the charter box. I was hoping for an improvement &#128553; Beyond that the interface is a lot better by a lot. It also makes more noise and heat then expected.


----------



## HarperVision

Kabookie said:


> Thanks for the info on the mini this I did get from a tech just wanted to verify. I have three more charter boxes and I figure if I replace after the TiVo monthly it will save me like $35/mo.
> 
> Back to the bolt+ can't seem to find it. I have the TiVo set to IR and the harmony only does IR. I've put two thicknesses of the blue painters tape across the whole front and it still switches. Tried just covering the logo with my thumb still works. Used my whole firearm to cover the whole front still works. Placed bluray covers on top but did not cover the front still works?????


I know some Harmonies do IP control as well, like the ones that use the hub. Could it be that it's being controlled through its Ethernet rather than IR?


----------



## Kabookie

I feel like an idiot. I did not know that IR went through glass. I have mostly glass doors on the cabinet so that is why its working without a repeater. 

However I still don't know where the IR receptor is. I called on something else on this on Sat. and of course got a different person but he had now clue and seemed totally uninterested in finding it out. The techs do not have a Bolt + yet to play with and when asked if he could send an email to someone else in the company and then get back he said he had no way. To have the location of the IR receptor should be tech support 101 but not for Tivo I guess.


----------



## mangochutney

Your TiVo has RF.


----------



## JimPa

mangochutney said:


> Your TiVo has RF.


.....which goes through walls.


----------



## aaronwt

JimPa said:


> .....which goes through walls.


and glass


----------



## trip1eX

Does Bolt+ support HDMI-CEC? 

Just bought a streaming box, plugged in the cables and hit a button on the remote and my tv turned on and up popped the UI. I didn't have to turn on the tv with another button, nor switch inputs nor program in that capability and I didn't have to program the volume controls for the remote either. It all just worked. 

Always read about CEC but figured it was littered with gotchas and incompatibilities etc, but when it just happens out of the box and you realize that was CEC and you weren't expecting it, well that's pretty impressive.

You'd hope a $1000 Tivo would/could/should be capable of a similar experience.


----------



## thyname

mangochutney said:


> Your TiVo has RF.


He is trying to use a a Harmony remote:



Kabookie said:


> Yes trying to use a harmony remote. I tried behind the TiVo logo no go. Yes whatever you call the video thing I did not need it which I'm happy. The last thing I wanted is another box more cabling and a wall wort


----------



## slowbiscuit

trip1eX said:


> Does Bolt+ support HDMI-CEC?
> 
> You'd hope a $1000 Tivo would/could/should be capable of a similar experience.


Tivos have never supported this, but a $35 Chromecast will. And give you a great experience when you hit play from your phone.

Sadly Tivo has never been at the forefront of anything other than being a great DVR. All of the other stuff (including streaming) has been an afterthought compared to dedicated devices that do it much better.


----------



## timbracken

I'm a new TiVo user with the Bolt + and absolutely love it over the X1. Hulu, Netflix and Amazon are great with the integration (along with OnDemand from Xfinity), but Plex is horrible. I still have to use Roku for that and a few other missing streaming apps.


----------



## lonewoolf47

bearcat2000 said:


> I just called to see what kinda deal they would give me since I've been with TiVo for 15 years, purchased 6 top of the line boxes and 6 Minis, 10 Slide Remotes, and a Stream, all with lifetime. Their best deal was full price.  Not happening.


----------



## dolfer

timbracken said:


> I'm a new TiVo user with the Bolt + and absolutely love it over the X1. Hulu, Netflix and Amazon are great with the integration (along with OnDemand from Xfinity), but Plex is horrible. I still have to use Roku for that and a few other missing streaming apps.


What's wrong with Plex? I was thinking about using it to view all of the home movies I am in the midst of digitizing right now.


----------



## timbracken

For me it's horrible on the Bolt, but fine on the Mini (secondary tv). It won't play most of my 1080p movies, it won't pass thru DTS audio, it's slow...there really is no advantage to using Plex on TiVo unless you are using the Mini. Also, search on TiVo doesn't search your Plex library either. So for me, Plex on Roku is far superior in every way over Tivo, including being able to go directly to the Plex app on Roku using my Harmony remote and Alexa. Plex on Roku is win win win win win 

Kinda related to this with my comment, I wish there were direct remote codes to access the TiVo apps directly so that I can setup separate activities on my Harmony for Netflix, Hulu, etc like I can do with Roku. I love you Roku!


----------



## alexb

timbracken said:


> Kinda related to this with my comment, I wish there were direct remote codes to access the TiVo apps directly so that I can setup separate activities on my Harmony for Netflix, Hulu, etc like I can do with Roku. I love you Roku!


I hear you, that's why I do Netflix and amazon on my vizio tv - easy to setup dedicated activity on harmony ( though set pit goals the right actions for power down was hard as exit menus are different on amazon depending if content is playing, plus delay in menu coming up is different).


----------



## ligand

Kabookie said:


> I feel like an idiot. I did not know that IR went through glass. I have mostly glass doors on the cabinet so that is why its working without a repeater.
> 
> However I still don't know where the IR receptor is. I called on something else on this on Sat. and of course got a different person but he had now clue and seemed totally uninterested in finding it out. The techs do not have a Bolt + yet to play with and when asked if he could send an email to someone else in the company and then get back he said he had no way. To have the location of the IR receptor should be tech support 101 but not for Tivo I guess.


I was able to get my Harmony to control my Bolt+ by pointing my IR repeater cable to the black plastic next to the lower right side of the tivo guy. It was a real pain in the a... to figure that out... I needed to use IR because my Tivo is located in the basement in my AV rack and my family room is over 50 ft from the AV rack on a different floor.


----------



## alexb

My bolt+ is in a cabinet with wooden doors, next to it is the X1 from comcast, my harmony repeater sits between them facing the door, never had IR issues, works perfectly, no fiddly placement was needed (this is harmony hub repeaters)


----------



## southerndoc

alexb said:


> My bolt+ is in a cabinet with wooden doors, next to it is the X1 from comcast, my harmony repeater sits between them facing the door, never had IR issues, works perfectly, no fiddly placement was needed (this is harmony hub repeaters)


What's the benefit of the X1 from Comcast? Does it add anything that the Bolt+ doesn't offer? I only ask because I turned one away when ordering gigabit internet.


----------



## alexb

geekmedic said:


> What's the benefit of the X1 from Comcast? Does it add anything that the Bolt+ doesn't offer? I only ask because I turned one away when ordering gigabit internet.


Benefit?
I should preface my reply that i am existing X1 customer and i am in my TiVo 30 day evaluation period still (that said i already packed up the X1 extenders in preference of the minis.

Ok benefits (i am making no statement on the value of these to anyone):

clean UI, much better use of real estate (the first is subjective so please don't argue with me, the second is not - i see more tiles of programs and they are large)
the X1 DVR app and cloud service - it really is quite impressive, the app on the ipad / PC / etc is something i will be sad to loose, that said i don't use it much and all of the ondemand content will still be available on the X1 app to me when i get rid of iot
voice input on the remote - sounds hokey, in reality its pretty darn good
their new netflix integration seems to be way less confusing (the retain the metaphor of 'record' a netlfix show even though in reality it seems to be streamed) the netflix apps seems way more performant than the tivo (that said i use my vizio 4k TV built in netlfix and amazon as it so superior and has dedicated buttons i use to invoke the apps via a harmony remote)
less crap from comcast about 3rd party devices (not an issue for me, my bolt paired perfectly first time twice)
secret 30 second skip remote command even works for on-demand and lets you skip adverts - shame the tivo one doesn't
during major sports events it auto extends recording if the play runs late (e.g. local NFL games) - doesn't for other sports like Formula one
their unified search and guide sure is pretty and easy to use - searching for movies is very pleasant, the tivo is utter 90's crap - i use the ios tivo app to find shows as the tivo UI is ten tons of horrific
the screen save is actually cool - shows calming pictures, weather, game stats etc
dead easy to find on-now sporting events (shows the teams logos)
opt-in to beta features from within ui - some of the bet features (like slimline controls UI) are pretty neat, would be awesome if tivo did this
I started with bolt+ from amazon with 30 day service plan, tried to order all in roamio on thanksgiving sale, they ran out after my order was submitted, so they offered me a bolt+ with all-in for only $99 more than the bolt+.

I am pretty certain the X1 kit is going back and i am keeping my bolt+ with lifetime service, but if tivo continues to go backwards as many here seem to say, then I am in no worse a position getting X1 again.


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