# Hmmm....is this right?? (long..sorry)



## fredandbetty (Feb 27, 2006)

i decided after a long time of reading these forums to go ahead and pull the trigger on getting a hi def tivo ( hughes hr10-250) and this is what i got...(or at least WAS going to get)   






i called on dec 7, and was told that i could order today and pay 

$399.00 ( with an instant rebate ) FOR THE HR10-250 , i then decided 

to wait, and the person on the other end of the phone said that was 

fine, and they would put it in the notes if i decided to call back and 

go ahead with the order, so i told them i would call back.

now today, i called and asked about it at 9:11am on 2/27/2006 and 

spoke with esther and she offered the following: $599.00 for the hd-

dvr, $200.00 mail-in rebate, $10.99 for hd programming, $14.95 s&h, 

and $99.00 install but it would most likely be the r-15. i was 

specifically looking for the hughes hd-250, and told her i would call 

back after doing some checking, and hung up.

i then called again to customer service and talked to tanya, and she 

gave me the same info as stated earlier, but then looked back a bit 

and said that since i called on dec 7, i would be eligible for the 

$399.00 price but she couldn't give that to me and i would have to be 

transferred to a different department.

so now i was transferred to the unnamed department and talked to 

danita, and she said that i could get the deal and started entering 

the order into the computer, and came back a bit and said she couldn't 

give me the deal and i asked why not, so she said that the deal is not 

able to be put into the system because it wants to charge $599.00 

instead of the $399.00...the information is no longer in the system...

How can that be when i was told by tanya that it was there and she was 

looking at it for $399.00?? The order had to be taken by a completely 

different department and that was the reason that i was transferred to 

danita??!!! so after all of this, the price jumped $200.00 and i 

decided to just say no to the deal but after thinking about it decided 

to write to you because your offer was $399.00 to start and that i 

wasn't being offered the original deal... can someone explain why i am 

being subject to the "bait and switch" tactic???!! i haven't even 

told you that i have been a customer for almost 10 years, and have had 

ABSOLUTELY no problems whatsoever until now...

Can you please help??

We will see what happpens when i send them an e-mail...


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Just because they save the information in the computer doesn't mean you can call back more than two months later to get that same deal. It's definitely not bait and switch, you chose to wait more than 60 days before trying to see if you could get that same deal.


You snooze, you lose. Just go buy it online for $417 (with $200 rebate making it $217) and be done with it.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

First, there is NO WAY you were offered an R15 as it's an SD DVR, not an HD TiVo box - two completely different animals.

Second, how can you expect to get the same deal almost THREE MONTHS later?? If I was a CSR, I would expect you to call back within a day or two, not nearly 90 days later.

As Rifleman say, suck it up and buy one online.


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## fredandbetty (Feb 27, 2006)

thanks!! i was just wondering if i had lost my mind!! i most likely will just get it online... no clue why i waited 3 months, but i completely forgot that i had called then...


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## fredandbetty (Feb 27, 2006)

as to guindalf, i'm just saying what i was told as to the r-15... thats all


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## nellee (May 26, 2002)

rifleman69 said:


> Just because they save the information in the computer doesn't mean you can call back more than two months later to get that same deal. It's definitely not bait and switch, you chose to wait more than 60 days before trying to see if you could get that same deal.
> 
> You snooze, you lose. Just go buy it online for $417 (with $200 rebate making it $217) and be done with it.


where exactly can I buy this for that price?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

nellee said:


> where exactly can I buy this for that price?


You can't. The price has actually gone down!

Follow this link!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

If satellite is the best option for you - look into Dish Network VIP622 - So far I have read positive reports. Much cheaper, no mandatory contracts and from what I have read - a better interface, better PQ and more HD channels. 

I personally prefer cable and their FREE (upfront anyway) HD DVR.

If you go with Dish - please let us know how you like it. Thanks.

DTV is the ONLY HDTV service provider with MANDATORY contracts. Also - if you spend good money on the HR10-250 and you have to send it back for replacement, you will probably end up with the HR20 and the NDS interface. So far - very BAD reports on NDS R15. BEWARE!


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

fastep said:


> If satellite is the best option for you - look into Dish Network VIP622 - So far I have read positive reports. Much cheaper, no mandatory contracts and from what I have read - a better interface, better PQ and more HD channels.


Where did you hear this?

I have no experience of the E* products, but from what I've read, there isn't a decent Dish box in existance.

I'm not doubting you, but everything I've seen points to high purchase prices and a poor quality box (failing recordings, bad interface, etc.)

Just curious.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Right here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=288863


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

fastep seems to have some sort of massive chip on his shoulder. Virtually every post he makes slams D* and tells people to get cable or E*. 

Give it up already.


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

I had exactly the same type of thing entered in my account notes by the Retention CSR last September when I set up my move for the following week. I negotiated at the time the HR10-250 price, plus the move package, plus a credit for HD and for locals and 2 new SD installs.

They told me at the time that I should call back on the HR10 once the other stuff was done and the move was complete. They told me that way, they could apply the 200 credit on the HR10 as a separate transaction and it would not look like as big a credit on the 'move' transaction. I told them in that case it would likely be a couple of months as I was finsihing out a new media room. They said OK.

Two months later, just before T-Day, all was ready and I called Retention back. They checked the notes, charged me 599 with a 200 credit and sent me a 100 rebate form.

It was a complete piece of cake. So, unless you have some kind of inside-news, quantum-force channel to D*, "you snooze you lose" just doesn't cut it as educated feedback for the OP.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Thanks.

Interesting, but it is only one person's opinion. I'd like to see more before I would consider a switch.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

tem said:


> fastep seems to have some sort of massive chip on his shoulder. Virtually every post he makes slams D* and tells people to get cable or E*.
> 
> Give it up already.


Just trying to educate the masses about options and competitor policies through ALOT of research. If you like inferior crap and long contracts - good for you. Some of the rest of us care about what bang we get for our buck!!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Interesting, but it is only one person's opinion. I'd like to see more before I would consider a switch.


The 622 is too new and hasn't received mass feedback yet. Since no contract maybe you can try Dish for free?? If so, give it a try and let us know about their new DVR. I would call first to see if you'll be out any money if you cancel. Please let us know. Thanks.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

fastep said:


> The 622 is too new and hasn't received mass feedback yet. Since no contract maybe you can try Dish for free?? If so, give it a try and let us know about their new DVR. I would call first to see if you'll be out any money if you cancel. Please let us know. Thanks.


Not gonna happen. Not only do I have three D* DVRs (HR10-250, DSR704 and R15) active and a Hughes DVR40 in a box, I'm not going to splash out $300 on another DVR that may or may not be better!

I'll look for others to be my guinea pigs - and there are plenty of sheep out there - bofore I even consider a move. The only reason I even own an R15 is because it came in the DVR4Me promo and is in a spare room so I can play with it.

In the meantime, I'm not going to bash D*, E* or anyone else without enough evidence to back me up, so please, I beg of you, do the same - especially in a TiVo forum!


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

fastep said:


> ...look into Dish Network VIP622 - So far I have read positive reports. Much cheaper, no mandatory contracts...


E* is not selling the VIP622 yet. Availablility is by lease, and according to E* documents you can see at SatelliteGuys, there is a 18 month term agreement required and $299.99 up front cost.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Not gonna happen. Not only do I have three D* DVRs (HR10-250, DSR704 and R15) active and a Hughes DVR40 in a box, I'm not going to splash out $300 on another DVR that may or may not be better!
> 
> I'll look for others to be my guinea pigs - and there are plenty of sheep out there - bofore I even consider a move. The only reason I even own an R15 is because it came in the DVR4Me promo and is in a spare room so I can play with it.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm not going to bash D*, E* or anyone else without enough evidence to back me up, so please, I beg of you, do the same - especially in a TiVo forum!


I was just trying to help you not get stuck with another TWO year contract with DTV... Sorry for trying!

I'm not bashing - I call it like I see it. This Tivo forum is exactly the place to post info that may HELP people make decisions about their future with HD and HD Dvrs.

People who sit on their hands and make no effort are like people who don't vote.

They don't count.

At least I'm making the effort through trial and error as well as through research. I guess you can call me a guinea pig......


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

hiker said:


> E* is not selling the VIP622 yet. Availablility is by lease, and according to E* documents you can see at SatelliteGuys, there is a 18 month term agreement required and $299.99 up front cost.


Just called Dish 1-800-966-7147 and as long as you have good credit - NO CONTRACT and CANCEL AT ANY TIME!!!!!!They will EVEN PAY for you to send the VIP622 back to them FOR A COMPLETE REFUND if sent back within 30 days!!! Also dish cs rep said something about current promos of free stuff you get just for trying the 622.

So, if you have good credit (5 minute credit check, so cs rep says)- there ain't nothin stoppin ya baby - except your wife of course! Or maybe you like to be used and abused!!


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

Maybe there's no contract for new customers but I think the CSR you spoke to is wrong. 
See attached PDF for current E* customers.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

fastep said:


> Just called Dish 1-800-966-7147 and as long as you have good credit - NO CONTRACT and CANCEL AT ANY TIME!!!!!!They will EVEN PAY for you to send the VIP622 back to them FOR A COMPLETE REFUND if sent back within 30 days!!! Also dish cs rep said something about current promos of free stuff you get just for trying the 622.
> 
> So, if you have good credit (5 minute credit check, so cs rep says)- there ain't nothin stoppin ya baby - except your wife of course! *Or maybe you like to be used and abused!!*


What's the deal here? All I see from you is that you're on a D* bashing trip!

I'm not necessarily a D* fanatic, but I chose them because they were the ONLY company to give me new customer status when I moved into my new house (I kept the same phone number as I had two homes ago where I was conned by a local company into activating Dish for a matter of hours before having it removed). E* wanted to charge me full price for the equipment and the install at the time whereas D* came out and installed for free.

I have no choice as far as cable is concerned. THe local offering is all analog and very poor quality both in terms of PQ and service. Most of it is not even available is stereo, let alone HD.

Thanks to this forum, I got a HR10-250 for free (yes, not just credits, but completely free. In fact, I even got $200 programming credit on top because the installer didn't show up when he was supposed to). Plus I got 6 months of Showtime, HBO for $2.00 a month for 6 months, $5.00 off my HD package and $5.00 off my programming package. I also got a Hughes HDVR2 AND an R15 for the grand total of $16.00 (with free installation and NO additional commitment).

All I had to do in return is commit all that equipment to stay with them for two years, with the option to CANCEL AT ANY TIME AND RETURN THE EQUIPMENT TO THEM WITH NO PENALTY!

Now explain to me where I've been "used and abused"????

Simple answer, you can't.

Now you're telling me to throw all that away and invest in a completely unproven DVR from a company that has a very poor reputation for existing products? You're off your trolley!

Now go away and sulk. Read Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends And Influence People, 'cos it sure ain't doing you any favors carrying on like you are!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> What's the deal here? All I see from you is that you're on a D* bashing trip!
> 
> I'm not necessarily a D* fanatic, but I chose them because they were the ONLY company to give me new customer status when I moved into my new house (I kept the same phone number as I had two homes ago where I was conned by a local company into activating Dish for a matter of hours before having it removed). E* wanted to charge me full price for the equipment and the install at the time whereas D* came out and installed for free.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately potential new customers wont be able to negotiate such an AWESOME deal on their HD DVR (you're AWESOME!).

My posts are for them.

Now - if you want to be HELPFUL - Please post your "techniques" on how to secure such an AWESOME deal after 3-1-06.

I didn't think so........................................


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

fastep said:


> Unfortunately potential new customers wont be able to negotiate such an AWESOME deal on their HD DVR *(you're AWESOME!)*.


Thank you. Others have told me the same 



fastep said:


> My posts are for them.


Oh really? And how many potential new customers come and join the TiVo Community before they have TiVo equipment? Huh?



fastep said:


> Now - if you want to be HELPFUL - Please post your "techniques" on how to secure such an AWESOME deal after 3-1-06.


...and your poisonous propoganda is "HELPFUL" is it?



fastep said:


> I didn't think so........................................


That's one heck of a crystal ball you have. Can you please tell me Wednesday's (or whenever it is) winning Powerball numbers?

You know, this is no longer a discussion on D* vs E*. It's become a demonstration of how big an idiot you appear to be! I'm sure you're not an idiot, so why act like a preteen kid who's Playstation 2 is better than his friend's Xbox?


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Thank you. Others have told me the same
> 
> Oh really? And how many potential new customers come and join the TiVo Community before they have TiVo equipment? Huh?
> 
> ...


Is this Rupert Murdoch? Come on now Rupie - You know that sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me........Now get back into that board meeting and order your people to do a competitive analysis! Also - make the 30-second skip functional on the new dvrs!!!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

hiker said:


> Maybe there's no contract for new customers but I think the CSR you spoke to is wrong.
> See attached PDF for current E* customers.


Hey - I just called the 800 number - Maybe they just lied. Does anyone else out there have a usable phone that can connect to a toll-free number? If so, can you call to confirm or deny the information being presented in this forum. Thank you in advance.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

fastep said:


> Is this Rupert Murdoch? Come on now Rupie - You know that sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me........Now get back into that board meeting and order your people to do a competitive analysis! Also - make the 30-second skip functional on the new dvrs!!!


That's the best you can do?????

I'm wasting my time - I actually thought you were going to put up an intelligent argument, silly me! I didn't realize that this was something for you to do while mommy was preparing your early evening feed!

Come back to me when you grow up and can discuss things like an adult.


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## dbish (Aug 30, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Come back to me when you grow up and can discuss things like an adult.


He may me a troll but at least reading his posts is entertaining!


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm just curious... how has this Dish / D* hijack between you 2 addressed or helped at all the OP's THREAD issue that he requested help with for D*?

Hmmmmmm???


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

QUOTE=Mr. Bill]I'm just curious... how has this Dish / D* hijack between you 2 addressed or helped at all the OP's THREAD issue that he requested help with for D*?

Hmmmmmm??? [/QUOTE]

Getting back to what I started to say before I was interrupted:

Just thought the op would like to know that there are TWO satellite choices for a 250gb HD DVR.

Option#1:

The dtv HR10-250 starting 3-1-06 available through DTV for lease only for $749 up front. This unit IS OBSOLETE and runs mpeg2 only with local HD OTA. New mpeg4 HD Dvr (H20) not available yet. New unit is not tivo and has NO 30 second skip feature. (read about sd version of it (R15)). Once the HDTivo is activated, a mandatory two year lease begins. You can cancel with a penalty and forfeit some or all of the $749. OR........................................

Option #2:

Dish network VIP622 250gb, three tuner HD DVR. Unit available for lease only. Cost is $299 and NO CONTRACT with good credit. Cancel within 30 days for complete refund. This is new mpeg4 box so HD local available to most by 04-06. This is NEW technology so some risk involved but risk is minimized by NO CONTRACT.

Dish offers all HD that DTV offers and in addition has all the VOOM HD Channels.

Price for each service seems comparable. Some have said PQ for dish is better. No NFL Sunday ticket with DISH. That's the latest - I wish you the best in your search for an HD DVR!

Contact Dish : 1-800-966-7147
DTV: 1-800- DIRECTTV


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Mr. Bill said:


> I'm just curious... how has this Dish / D* hijack between you 2 addressed or helped at all the OP's THREAD issue that he requested help with for D*?
> 
> Hmmmmmm???


With apologies to the OP, whom I originally replied to with intention of helping, this thread got hijacked by the troll trying to bash D* and promote his own agenda.

My original question about the 622 was actually a genuine attempt at gaining information - I didn't know about this clown's plans to promote E* at every opportunity - but I do now!

I'm not a do or die D* fan, but I hate misinformation and downright lies, which this jerk seems determined to spread. Where did he get the figure of $749 for an HR10-250 apart from his own imagination?

I refuse to go any further for this dummy. I'm wasting my time. It's like discussing philosophy with a two-year-old, but I won't let him poison everything he touches either.


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## fredandbetty (Feb 27, 2006)

Mr. Bill said:


> I had exactly the same type of thing entered in my account notes by the Retention CSR last September when I set up my move for the following week. I negotiated at the time the HR10-250 price, plus the move package, plus a credit for HD and for locals and 2 new SD installs.
> 
> They told me at the time that I should call back on the HR10 once the other stuff was done and the move was complete. They told me that way, they could apply the 200 credit on the HR10 as a separate transaction and it would not look like as big a credit on the 'move' transaction. I told them in that case it would likely be a couple of months as I was finsihing out a new media room. They said OK.
> 
> ...


september??!! wow!! thanks for the info!! i sent them another email already but also needed to upgrade my two older boxes ( rca) that i have had since i first got the service ( almost 10 years) and they even said that since the boxes are so old ( my words, not theirs) , i could have BOTH of them replaced for just the s&h charges ( $15.81 ) for TWO boxes ( COOL)!!!

but doggone it if i can't get them to budge on the previous deall, i will definetely get one from 6ave ( even though my local installer has 80 hughes hd-tivo boxes, i know this because i called them and asked )!!!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> I'm not a do or die D* fan, but I hate misinformation and downright lies, which this jerk seems determined to spread. Where did he get the figure of $749 for an HR10-250 apart from his own imagination?


????Uh, I called DTV and Dish.?????

If you want to dispute my findings I'm afraid you'll have to put your pants on and go down the to the local convenience store and call for yourself. Luckily both companies have toll-free numbers.

In case you missed it - call Dish @ 1-800-966-7147 and DTV @1-800-DIRECTTV.

And remember- I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!


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## fredandbetty (Feb 27, 2006)

thanks for the info guindalf, i really appreciate it!


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

fredandbetty said:


> september??!! wow!! thanks for the info!! i sent them another email already but also needed to upgrade my two older boxes ( rca) that i have had since i first got the service ( almost 10 years) and they even said that since the boxes are so old ( my words, not theirs) , i could have BOTH of them replaced for just the s&h charges ( $15.81 ) for TWO boxes ( COOL)!!!
> 
> but doggone it if i can't get them to budge on the previous deall, i will definetely get one from 6ave ( even though my local installer has 80 hughes hd-tivo boxes, i know this because i called them and asked )!!!


I would avoid the email and call Customer Retention directly at 800-824-9081. They have the power to do things the 1-800-Directv CSRs cannot do.

Tell them to check the notes. Be polite, but tell them that you are REALLY annoyed now and are considering dumping the whole lot because you can get it way cheaper from Dish Network.

Ask them what they can do to honor their end of the bargain that they committed to in the notes in your file. Be firm, be friendly, be calm, and insist they help you.

Good luck!


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

fredandbetty said:


> thanks for the info guindalf, i really appreciate it!


You're welcome. Once again, my apologies on behalf of this moron. Sorry too that I got sucked in. I should have ignored him in the first place!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Hey fred (or betty) and guindalf - check out the latest on DTV pricing policies effective today. I hate to say I told you so but........

There are none so blind as those that will not see.


BTW (off the subject) Hey guindalf - what's with the name calling? 
Remember the "golden rule". It (like the truth) shall set you free!


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## dbish (Aug 30, 2004)

fastep said:


> Hey fred (or betty) and guindalf - check out the latest on DTV pricing policies effective today. I hate to say I told you so but........
> 
> There are none so blind as those that will not see.
> 
> ...


Maybe if your posts didn't read like a 12 year old paid lobbyist against Directv, he wouldn't feel the need to call you a moron. Stick to the facts and leave the childish comments behind (I'm rubber you're glue...what are you, 7?) and I don't think you'll have any name calling issues. Just because people don't agree 100% with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong. There are millions of satisfied Directv customers that have no issues with their policies. I have been a Directv customer since 1997 and considering the issues of Picture Quality, Pricing, Reliability, and customer service, Driectv stomps on any other alternatives in my area. That is not the case for every area but certainly mine. Am I totally satisfied with their HD-Lite? No, but the alternatives for me are worse. Why can't you accept that there are many satisfied Directv customers out there. You act like it is your personal crusade to convert every Directv customer because you don't happen to like the company. Try to get over the fact that everybody is not going to agree with you all the time.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

dbish said:


> Maybe if your posts didn't read like a 12 year old paid lobbyist against Directv, he wouldn't feel the need to call you a moron. Stick to the facts and leave the childish comments behind (I'm rubber you're glue...what are you, 7?) and I don't think you'll have any name calling issues. Just because people don't agree 100% with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong. There are millions of satisfied Directv customers that have no issues with their policies. I have been a Directv customer since 1997 and considering the issues of Picture Quality, Pricing, Reliability, and customer service, Driectv stomps on any other alternatives in my area. That is not the case for every area but certainly mine. Am I totally satisfied with their HD-Lite? No, but the alternatives for me are worse. Why can't you accept that there are many satisfied Directv customers out there. You act like it is your personal crusade to convert every Directv customer because you don't happen to like the company. Try to get over the fact that everybody is not going to agree with you all the time.


So name-calling is ok when faced with facts? Come on - I can understand being bitter because YOUR choices are limited - THAT IS NOT MY FAULT!! I am POSTING FACTS and OPINIONS based on trial and error as well as research in an attempt to share my experiences.

My message is for those that have a choice but don't realize it (like me four weeks ago). I am trying to help them.

Don't be SELFISH and limit information because you think you're screwed and to hell with everyone else. Direct your frustration at DTV and\or your local cablecos.

You don't have to "put up" with HDLite or DTV's new leasing policy that started Wednesday (or anything else for that matter). I merely responded to the OP's thread because I knew what was coming! And I was right!

If you choose to "settle" - fine. It is your right! But please stay out of the way of those TRYING to help others that WILL NEVER settle for anything less than the best bang for their buck!!

If you have solid information to contribute, do it.

If you're just frustrated, take a pill.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Please don't feed the troll!

Fastep - you're an idiot AND a liar. If you have a grievance, take it up with someone who actually cares!

Now, once again with apologies to the OP (which, incidentally had NOTHING to do with your issues), go and play on I-95 and take your idiotic lies...er, sorry, facts and opinions (yeah right!) with you!


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## dbish (Aug 30, 2004)

Ahh, the man with all the answers. Must be hard going through life the smartest man in the world. I hope your attitude get's you far in life. Have a good one.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

dbish said:


> Ahh, the man with all the answers. Must be hard going through life the smartest man in the world. I hope your attitude get's you far in life. Have a good one.


Was this directed at me?


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

dbish said:


> Ahh, the man with all the answers. Must be hard going through life the smartest man in the world. I hope your attitude get's you far in life. Have a good one.


I don't call them 'answers' - I call them FACTS! Do with them what you will.

Don't you see that you are angry at the messenger? Sort of misguided, huh?

Think about it.


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## dbish (Aug 30, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> Was this directed at me?


Negative. And I'm not the least bit angry.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

the ignore feature ... learn it. live it. love it.


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