# FOX 5 and Channel 9 deleted from guide



## Wingershute (Oct 22, 2010)

I received a message the other day from Tivo that channels 5 and 9 were deleted from the channel guide. I am a Cablevision subscriber and realize of the ongoing dispute between these 2 companies but I am a little worried now we won't ever get these channels back. I'm missing all of the Fox 5 MLB playoff games. Wonder if dispute gets corrected if Cablevison subscribers will get some sort of a refund?


----------



## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm in the same boat- both channels are no longer in the channel guide.
Once Newscorp and the Dolans (Cablevision's multi-millionaire owner family) eventually come to an agreement about the re-transmit contract for Fox5 and My9 they'll both re-appear in the channel guide.

As far as a refund- don't expect more than $1 or so credit per missing channel per month.... if that.


Oh and kudos to the genius at the FCC who allowed one corporation to own two television stations in the same market area (NY/NJ)! That way when there is a carriage dispute with a cable provider three + million viewers lose not just one major network... but two networks because of your shortsighted decision.
Good thinking guys- way to protect the public interest


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

FCC apparently wants proof that Cablevision and Fox are negotiating.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-fcc-20101023,0,3387989.story

Tonight I saw an ad on another network from Fox, insisting that what they're charging Cablevision is an equivalent amount to what they're charging other cable companies for the privilege of rebroadcasting their over-the-air channels.

Madness, I tells ya. Fortunately most of their regular programming has been in reruns.


----------



## Wingershute (Oct 22, 2010)

An attorney for FOX 5 was interviewed last week on radio station AM 660 WFAN. The radio host was pressing the attorney on the dispute with Cablevision. Well it turns out that Cablevision has requested that an outside arbitrator come in and settle the dispute but FOX 5 is against that. The radio host kept pressing and the attorney stated that legally an arbitrator was not necessary and that Cablevison was using that as leverage in the negotiations. The host countered that this does not make sense because Cablevision has a lot to more to lose if they lose dispute. Meaning that FOX 5 's request of approximately 150 million USD/year may actually be granted should they win the dispute. 
To be continued...


----------



## tgmii (Feb 21, 2002)

Both their brands are damaged by this, and its their own fault.

I'll ask a FIOS neighbor to host my slingbox temporarily 

Cutting the cord is starting to look better and better.

Tom


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Dr_Zoidberg said:


> FCC apparently wants proof that Cablevision and Fox are negotiating.




PROOF? What if one side doesn't want to negotiate. Since when is cablevision required to have Fox or fox required to be carried on cablevision...?


----------



## Wingershute (Oct 22, 2010)

They better clear up this dispute before the MLB World Series begins. If not then I'm envisioning some sort of Governmental intervention. ie, get this done ASAP or WE THE PEOPLE will decide what's a fair market rate. Both sides won't be happy then.


----------



## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Commercial television and all their assorted providers are indeed strange bedfellows. They need each other to survive. If all the providers decided to stop broadcasting Fox, for instance, it likely wouldn't survive once the sponsors left. On the other hand if all the networks dropped Directv, for instance, it would suffer serious damage. 

Of course collusion is against the law, so they can't conspire, but in the end, they make nice-nice and raise our rates. Now that I'm no longer married to satellite-cable-fios for TV, it's refreshing to feel that I'm no longer a hostage. 

I'm fortunate to live where OTA is plentiful and I feel for those who lost the baseball playoffs and perhaps the World Series. There's always the local pub. Think the timing of this is by accident? Probably not.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

turbobuick86 said:


> Of course collusion is against the law, so they can't conspire,


Collusion takes place everyday. In America, we call it "lobbying."


----------



## bud8man (Feb 13, 2004)

When we signed up for Cablevision Fox 5 and My 9 were on the channel list.
Basic cable, for $12.95 a month I thought was supposed to be a paid for convienience for those who could not use an antenna. Typically refered to as the senior package.

Hopefully MLB, NFL and NASCAR remembers this when they have to renew contracts. They want games on TV's in homes. 

Back in the day Direct TV and Dish would have a charge if you wanted local channels, otherwise you received the standard NBC/ABC/CBS/FOX, etc. Right? Well give me what ever the standard is then over Fox 5 and My 9.


----------



## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

I've always felt that if you're close enough to transmitters to receive OTA, then there isn't any reason to received local compressed HD from your provider. OTA will always provide the best picture if the signal is sufficient. If you can tolerate having an antenna go for it.

OTA has been seamlessly integrated into almost all STB/DVR's for over a decade now.


----------



## bud8man (Feb 13, 2004)

turbobuick86 said:


> I've always felt that if you're close enough to transmitters to receive OTA, then there isn't any reason to received local compressed HD from your provider. OTA will always provide the best picture if the signal is sufficient. If you can tolerate having an antenna go for it.
> 
> OTA has been seamlessly integrated into almost all STB/DVR's for over a decade now.


That was the whole promise of sticking with cable...no need to upgrade to a HDTV and TiVo S2 would work still too.

Now I wish I had taken the government up on their converter coupons!

Cablevision should hand out coupons to converter boxes!


----------



## bud8man (Feb 13, 2004)

turbobuick86 said:


> I've always felt that if you're close enough to transmitters to receive OTA, then there isn't any reason to received local compressed HD from your provider. OTA will always provide the best picture if the signal is sufficient. If you can tolerate having an antenna go for it.
> 
> OTA has been seamlessly integrated into almost all STB/DVR's for over a decade now.


That was the whole promise of sticking with cable...no need to upgrade to a HDTV and TiVo S2 would work still too.

Now I wish I had taken the government up on their converter coupons!

Cablevision should hand out coupons to converter boxes!


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

turbobuick86 said:


> I've always felt that if you're close enough to transmitters to receive OTA, then there isn't any reason to received local compressed HD from your provider. OTA will always provide the best picture if the signal is sufficient. If you can tolerate having an antenna go for it.
> 
> OTA has been seamlessly integrated into almost all STB/DVR's for over a decade now.


My directv locals look as good as ota... They take up less space on the hard drive, and for 'seamless integration' I'd have to convince directv to lease me a separate box.


----------



## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

I was with Directv for 11 years. They gave me several receivers, dvrs, and a couple am21's for ota. No leases. They treated me so well, I think they thought I was a beta tester. But I never got my locals from them even back in the previous century when they charged for the privilege. 

I did the pre-buy on the TiVo HR10-250 when it first came out. Big $$$. It had pass thru OTA.


----------



## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

bud8man said:


> That was the whole promise of sticking with cable...no need to upgrade to a HDTV and TiVo S2 would work still too.


Hmm, the dramatic picture quality improvement of going from an analog SDTV to a modern HDTV might be a want/need to upgrade to HDTV.

It's quite likely that a basic LCD in the $200-300 range would look amazingly better than your old SDTV.


----------



## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

Wingershute said:


> They better clear up this dispute before the MLB World Series begins. If not then I'm envisioning some sort of Governmental intervention. ie, get this done ASAP or WE THE PEOPLE will decide what's a fair market rate. Both sides won't be happy then.


Really?!?! Don't you think that there's more important issues for our government to deal with than a stupid baseball game??? I mean, REALLY?!?! Are you that shallow!!!


----------



## Wingershute (Oct 22, 2010)

jtried,
If you lived in a Cablevision market then you would understand the frustration of the subscribers. It's not just about a baseball game it's really about the greed that these massive corporations have and how in the long run will raise the price of a product. When this dispute finally gets resolved I expect to see my bill go up which is way I am contemplating ditching cable and going the ota route.


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

jtreid said:


> Really?!?! Don't you think that there's more important issues for our government to deal with than a stupid baseball game??? I mean, REALLY?!?! Are you that shallow!!!


No need for the namecalling. We're talking about the FCC intervening, sir, not the entire US government.


----------



## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

Dr_Zoidberg said:


> No need for the namecalling. We're talking about the FCC intervening, sir, not the entire US government.


...and why exactly should the FCC get involved? I mean does the government get involved when a company decides to raise the price for its product and you decide not to buy it? It is Cablevision's decision not to pay the higher price for Fox. Fox is not saying it won't allow Cablevision to rebroadcast it while allowing other cable companies to do so. If that were the case, the Cablevision would have some legal recourse, but not in this case. It's simple corporate posturing.

While I empathize with your frustration, thinking there is some legal issue here is a bit of a stretch. Don't you think?


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Good thing that Tivo supports getting programming from both cable and an antenna.

You would think many in the Cablevision area should be able to get both OTA.


----------



## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Dr_Zoidberg said:


> No need for the namecalling. We're talking about the FCC intervening, sir, not the entire US government.


The cable companies sued the FCC in the past to get rid of (free) must carry. 
They won.

And now they want the Government to come running to their rescue?


----------



## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Lots of press recently about the exodus of tv viewers from providers and going back to OTA and other alternatives. Stalemates like this one only reinforce their decisions and increase their numbers. 

There is a lot more here than Fox vs cablevison. There's about 3 million others that have no say.


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

jtreid said:


> ...and why exactly should the FCC get involved?


Perhaps because of this (emphasis mine):



fcc.gov said:


> About the FCC
> 
> The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent United States government agency. The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with *regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable*. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.


And furthermore,



> The Telecommunications Act of 1996 has the potential to change the way we work, live and learn. It will affect telephone service -- local and long distance, *cable programming and other video services,* broadcast services and services provided to schools.
> 
> The Federal Communications Commission has a tremendous role to play in creating fair rules for this new era of competition. At this Internet site, we will provide information about the FCC's role in implementing this new law, how you can get involved and how these changes might impact you.


That's why. This is a contract dispute and we as consumers are caught in the middle of it. The FCC's role in this is pretty clear.

As far as I'm concerned, all that is needed is for them to order some sort of binding arbitration.


----------



## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Dr_Zoidberg said:


> Perhaps because of this (emphasis mine):
> 
> And furthermore,
> 
> ...


The FCC's role with Cablevision denying MSG HD to FiOS was pretty clear too. They issued a ruling and Cablevision basically ignored it.


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

Raj said:


> The FCC's role with Cablevision denying MSG HD to FiOS was pretty clear too. They issued a ruling and Cablevision basically ignored it.


There seems to be a presumption that we're siding with Cablevision. I don't think any of us really are, aside from us wanting to keep our cable bills down.


----------



## headroll (Jan 20, 2003)

Received an email from CV today saying they will credit up to 10 dollars to any subscriber that registerd to watch the world series online via postseason.tv ...

-roll


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

Fox is back on., but the guide listings are unavailable. I've re-initiated a connection back to TiVo to see if it makes a difference, but I doubt they'd be that quick.

Naturally, Cablevision is whining about the price, which was not disclosed. I just hope they don't pass along an increase to us.


----------



## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

They were certainly quick enough to pull them from the guide when the dispute started. I hope that they will be as quick (really they should be quicker and to the point the very next update/connection) to get the channels back in the guide.

There was no need to delete and stop sending the guide data. They should have handled it such by removing the channels from channels the user received, but left the channels listed as part of the service and then simply re-added them as channels I receive (while continuing to have and supply guide data the whole time).


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

On my TiVo HD, I still had the channel available in my channel list. no such luck for my S2.

Since it came back on, I've forced some updates, hoping that TiVo would re-add the channel listings, with no success. Hopefully, now that the weekend's over, they'll come to their senses and fix things.


----------



## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

If News Corp and Cablevision kicked us in the nuts with their 2 week hissy fit, then Tivo is giving us a good kick in the butt for good measure. It's been almost 48 hours since the channels came back...STILL NO GUIDE DATA! Absolutely unacceptable! 

Thank you Tivo for reminding me once again why my TivoHD will be the last Tivo I'll ever buy.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Dr_Zoidberg said:


> Fox is back on., but the guide listings are unavailable. I've re-initiated a connection back to TiVo to see if it makes a difference, but I doubt they'd be that quick.
> 
> Naturally, Cablevision is whining about the price, which was not disclosed. I just hope they don't pass along an increase to us.


Of course you are going to see an increase, the law favors content providers, not distributors. Anyone mad at cablevision over this should realize , they pay cablevision, not the content provider.


----------



## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

The call in I did at 11:30am today gave no data. Last call in I attempted was at 2:24pm and the channels and guide data have been repopulated.

again, TiVo should have never removed these channels from the line-up while the dispute was in progress. They could have automatically unchecked them from received channels but even then not recommended. Sure, some garbage recordings might have occurred but we would not have been stuck with TiVo giving us an additional kick on top of what News Corp and Cruddlevision gave us.


----------



## mjsmith3 (Feb 29, 2004)

Zoid,

Me too. says "To Be Announced" in the guide. There go all my Season Passes....damm


----------



## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

Blahman said:


> TiVo should have never removed these channels from the line-up while the dispute was in progress. They could have automatically unchecked them from received channels but even then not recommended. Sure, some garbage recordings might have occurred but we would not have been stuck with TiVo giving us an additional kick on top of what News Corp and Cruddlevision gave us.


Tivo has no say.

Tribune Media Services provides the guide data, based on carriage by system / provider. The buck stops with them (TMS), not Tivo.

Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

mjsmith3 said:


> Zoid,
> 
> Me too. says "To Be Announced" in the guide. There go all my Season Passes....damm


Thanks for reminding me to check the Season passes. even though I have guide data again all the season passes show as no upcoming episodes. I even deleted and re-created one of the season passes by selecting the episode right from the guide data. No luck. Thanks again for the additional kick TiVo.


----------



## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

With a forced connection to the TiVo Service, both WNYW-DT Fox 5 and WWOR-DT My9 have returned to the TiVo Guide. Any connections to TiVo as of 2:30p EDT today should include the listings.


----------



## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

RealityCheck said:


> With a forced connection to the TiVo Service, both WNYW-DT Fox 5 and WWOR-DT My9 have returned to the TiVo Guide. Any connections to TiVo as of 2:30p EDT today should include the listings.


do you happen to have any Season Passes on either of those channels? Did/do they work and show upcoming episodes scheduled for recording? My Guide Data is fully populated since the 2:24pm EDT call today. Since then I have done another call, a reboot of the TiVo, and another call. It is now 10:57 and even though I can see the new episodes in the guide by browsing to the various dates none of them are scheduled to record on the existing Season Pass items. I again deleted one (for the second time today) my Season Passes on these channels, then went to the guide selected one of the new episodes coming up and the same thing nothing for 705 or 709 will schedule.

So thanks again TiVo.


----------



## RealityCheck (Feb 15, 2007)

TiVo moved my WNYW-DT Cablevision designated Season Passes to OTA channels. As of 2:26p EDT (Nov. 3), the Season Passes remain tethered to their OTA assignments. I'll fix them from TiVo's online Season Pass Manager. I don't set any WWOR-DT recordings with WWE Smackdown's transition to Sci-Fi.

*update* Apparently, there is no way to change channel assignments for Season Passes online.


----------



## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

Just an update it would appear sometime while I was at work today my TiVo decided to associate that guide data with the Season Passes again and now they show as having upcoming episodes.


----------

