# Comcast Discussions



## JeffGrimes (Nov 2, 2000)

I'm considering the jump to HiDefinition...I'm currently a DirecTivo user on a 50" "analog" 4:3 TV.

I've been intending on going with D*'s MPEG4 solution when available, but doing some homework here...it seems that Comcast (Detroit area) may have the better package, both in terms of cost and Picture Quality.

I don't want to HiJack a DirecTv forum to talk Comcast...so if their is a more appropriate forum, please direct me.

I'd like to hear from converts...those that have recently left DirecTv for Comcast...Pros and Cons of switching...Problems you've had with audio drop-outs, or similar service-related concerns...

Thanks


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

If you can get all your locals from Comcast, and a decent HD package, you should go with Comcast

Or wait a year to see what DirecTV does.

If I were making the decision now, I would definitely drop DirecTV. But I've got two HD Tivo's I need to accrue.


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## Naggs (Nov 8, 2003)

JeffGrimes said:


> I'm considering the jump to HiDefinition...I'm currently a DirecTivo user on a 50" "analog" 4:3 TV.
> 
> I've been intending on going with D*'s MPEG4 solution when available, but doing some homework here...it seems that Comcast (Detroit area) may have the better package, both in terms of cost and Picture Quality.
> 
> ...


Technically, this is an HDTV Tivo Powered DVR forum, so I think these conversations concerning Comcast should be welcome since Tivo and Comcast will be hand in hand eventually (not that anyone has said we shouldn't talk Comcast, but still...)

Dropping my Directv (and my Tivo *sniff*) tomorrow for the Comcast HD DVR in Macomb, MI. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## StarsHockey (Feb 21, 2003)

Scheduled the install for Comcast next Saturday in Dallas. Problem in Dallas is that it's an old cable system and I won't have the dual tuner feature with the PVR. 

On the positive side I am getting the full package from Comcast with Internet for 69.95 a month for a year. Currently paying DirecTv 90.00 for just satellite. 

I figured I could always come back if I don't like it and will be suspending my DirecTv account.


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## dirtypacman (Feb 3, 2004)

I have comcast HD and have been very pleased... in my area we have:

PBS, CBS, ABC, NBC, ESPN, DISCOVERY, FOX, UPN, WB, HBO, SHOWTIME, CINEMAX, STARZ, INHD1, INHD2 

There may be one or two more that I don't remember.... I would definetly recommend it and I have had no problems with any of those channels so far... over 1 year in with HD.


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

I'm waiting for the cablecard TiVo to be shipping before consideration becomes realistic.


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## Scott R. Scherr (Aug 6, 2003)

Comcast is offering incredible deals for the first year. I am reluctant to switch because of what will happen to my bill after the first year. In Maryland, digital cable (basic) is $64.95 per month. The DVR fee is $9.95 per month. HD fee is $5.00 per month. This is $80.00/month with only one DVR that has a hard drive half the size of the HD-Tivo.

We have three Tivo's (one HD) and you can't beat the $4.99 Tivo fee for unlimited Tivo's on D*.

Scott


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

I'm scheduled for a digital cable installation from Comcast one week from today in the NW burbs of Chicago. My HD DirecTiVo has worked flawlessly, unlike some other people's, but I am tired of the lack of urgency to offer more HD from DirecTV. I already get all my OTA locals in HD, so the big push to get locals in HD doesn't effect me. Plus, I'm saving over 50 bucks a months to get Comcast's top-of-the-line package compared to DirecTV's Premier.

I plan to use both systems for a month and keep whichever I like best. If they are close, I will probably keep the Comcast and save the money.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Wow, that's amazing that you're going to save $.

Here in the Northern Chicago burbs, I just called Comcast a few days ago. Right now I have D* Total Choice Plus w/locals and HBO. I have a total of five receivers, all of them DTivos (one is in my son's semitruck). I called up asking for a price on something similar: four digital outlets, all with DVRs. I also asked for HD as a separate cost (since I haven't yet added HD to D*, although I'm getting ready to).

The monthly cost (without HD) was *$40/month higher./ For one less outlet.

Can't justify that, no way, no how.

Most of this, I suspect, is the DVR leasing fees of $9.95/box (as opposed to D*s DVR fee of $4.95 flat).*


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

I just moved to Comcast. No real problems so far. The DVR does funny stuff sometimes but I have had plenty of problems with my DirecTivo as well. Overall, my costs are the same or less than D* (I am actually paying more but getting a LOT more so I consider it a wash). The price is good for 12-16 months. At that time, I can look out there and see what is available. D* will probably offer me something good to leave, Comcast will probably offer me something to stay.


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## DuffMan (Jun 30, 2003)

For those of you who have recently had your comcast install, a quick question: did the installer use an HDMI cable for the tv hookup or component video?


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## dirtypacman (Feb 3, 2004)

Over a year ago but he used Component=Red/Blue/Green


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

I have used both the Directv HR10-250 and the Comcast Motorola 6412. In terms of HD content and High Definition PQ, the Comcast, at least in my neighborhood, is superior to D*. Actually, I have recently terminated D* and use two 6412's that provide four tuners and 240 gig hard drive space. I use one DVR for HD series recordings and the other for SD recordings. I do need to place a shield on one of the DVRs to prevent the remote from interacting with both at the same time. So far, all of the recordings occur as scheduled, and I simply swith the shield from one DVR to the other when I want to watch a scheduled recording. The Comcast DVR is not a Tivo, but the trade-off is a better HD picture and all of the network HD broadcasts. Comcast has indicated that they plan to offer a Tivo option in March 2006.

In terms of usability, The Comcast Motorola 6412 has two tuners, series or individual recording options, first run only etc. It uses the grid for scheduling programs and has about two weeks of scheduled programs on the grid. The 6412 allows the user to check and cancel scheduled recordings (a to do list), and change the order of scheduled recordings to indicate your preference if a schedule conflict occurs. Comcast does offer the 30 second skip. In other words, in terms of the basic DVR operations it offers everything that Tivo offers and operates much more quickly. 

The Tivo HR10-250 has a more friendly user interface, and a much better conflict resolution system. For example, if there is a conflict with a requested recording, Tivo will seek to find another broadcast time to record the requested program. Comcast does not offer this option. In addition, of course, Tivo offers the wish list, suggestions, and an easier system and several options for finding programs to record (name, channel or time).

The major problems with the Comcast 6412 is hard drive space (120 gig). You are limited to about 14 hours of HD programs/50 hours of SD programs. I do use two 6412's that helps with the space problem. The second problem is that Comcast does not have Tivo, although they indicate that they plan to offer that option in March, 2006.

In sum, there is no perfect solution at this point. I simply opted for the better PQ and more HD content offered by Comcast. D* may offer a better solution with the HMC in 2006, and/or Comcast with Tivo and SATA enabled (external hard drive) may offer a better solution in 2006.


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## JeffGrimes (Nov 2, 2000)

Good feedback so far...

I wonder how the new "leasing" structure at D* will change things...The monthly fee for equipment will likely go UP...more than the curent mirroring fee, possibly?


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

DuffMan said:


> For those of you who have recently had your comcast install, a quick question: did the installer use an HDMI cable for the tv hookup or component video?


Component. The installation was a month or so ago. I keep thinking about changing but I have heard that many people have had problems with it and that the change in PQ is not that much, if at all.


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## DuffMan (Jun 30, 2003)

Hmm, good to know. I've got my DVD going into my component inputs right now so it looks like I'll need to purchase an hdmi cable if I want the installer to use it.


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

We don't supply HDMI cables, only component.


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## Sherman67 (Aug 27, 2004)

DuffMan said:


> For those of you who have recently had your comcast install, a quick question: did the installer use an HDMI cable for the tv hookup or component video?


I had Comcast installed this past Tuesday and I'm in the process of comparing D* HD to Comcast's. To me, the D* picture is superior on my plasma. Although I'm using hdmi with D* and component (which the installer used) with Comcast, the picture quality is night and day. It's to the point that if I'm switching between ESPN HD on D* and Comcast and leave the room, when I return, I can look at the picture and tell if I left the TV on D* or Comcast.

When I compared hdmi and component with my D* equipment only, I could not see this much of a difference in picture quality. This is a big surprise to me, since everyone has been saying that Comcast's picture quality is superior to D*.


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

Sherman67:
Your response to the PQ on D* and Comcast is not unusual. The Comcast PQ, channel lineup, and SD/HD varies considerably depending on where you live, type of cable, ADS or analog, wiring, number of splitters etc. All you can do is simply do what you did. Namely, you compare the Comcast and D* and make the best choice based on PQ, cost, lineup etc. There is no magic answer that can be applied to every circumstance.


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## JeffGrimes (Nov 2, 2000)

Sherman67 said:


> I had Comcast installed this past Tuesday and I'm in the process of comparing D* HD to Comcast's. To me, the D* picture is superior on my plasma. Although I'm using hdmi with D* and component (which the installer used) with Comcast, the picture quality is night and day. It's to the point that if I'm switching between ESPN HD on D* and Comcast and leave the room, when I return, I can look at the picture and tell if I left the TV on D* or Comcast.
> 
> When I compared hdmi and component with my D* equipment only, I could not see this much of a difference in picture quality. This is a big surprise to me, since everyone has been saying that Comcast's picture quality is superior to D*.


Sherman, you have to be careful hear...While it would be hopefull that every consumer-electronic-grade video device output a perfectly calibrated signal (i.e. all the same) we know it not to be true.

My point/comment/question is: Did you compare the picture quality after "calibrating" each source with Avia or similar? Comcast could just be sending a lower contrast or less "bright" image...making it look duller. Simply adjusting the brightess or contrast could make a difference.

I'm asking/stating, because I would suspect that D* compresses even their HiDef signal, whereas Comcast does not (I believe).

I know Locals in SD over D* are bloody-awefull. I mean, a very clean image, no ditial artifacts or noise...but very "soft".

That, and Hi Def are the reasons I'm considering the switch.


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## Sherman67 (Aug 27, 2004)

JeffGrimes said:


> Sherman, you have to be careful hear...While it would be hopefull that every consumer-electronic-grade video device output a perfectly calibrated signal (i.e. all the same) we know it not to be true.
> 
> My point/comment/question is: Did you compare the picture quality after "calibrating" each source with Avia or similar? Comcast could just be sending a lower contrast or less "bright" image...making it look duller. Simply adjusting the brightess or contrast could make a difference.
> 
> ...


Actually I had a professional calibration done last Friday on all input sources on my tv. I also have the Avia DVD as well and I just tried to make some minor adjustments (since I did not have the Comcast box at time of calibration), but I can still see a difference. And I would still say, D* HD picture is still better.

Maybe I should have Comcast come back out and take a look at the install.


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## JeffGrimes (Nov 2, 2000)

Sherman67 said:


> Actually I had a professional calibration done last Friday on all input sources on my tv. I also have the Avia DVD as well and I just tried to make some minor adjustments (since I did not have the Comcast box at time of calibration), but I can still see a difference. And I would still say, D* HD picture is still better.
> 
> Maybe I should have Comcast come back out and take a look at the install.


You had the entire system calibrated, to multiple sources...but before Comcast dropped off the box. This may have something to do with the difference...but maybe not. D* may truly have a better HD signal for your area...

I wouldn't call Comcast back out...but would consider a check by the professional calibrator...if it was bothersome, that is.


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## Sherman67 (Aug 27, 2004)

JeffGrimes said:


> You had the entire system calibrated, to multiple sources...but before Comcast dropped off the box. This may have something to do with the difference...but maybe not. D* may truly have a better HD signal for your area...
> 
> I wouldn't call Comcast back out...but would consider a check by the professional calibrator...if it was bothersome, that is.


Yes, but at the time I had it calibrated I was thinking of possibly adding the Comcast box but did not know when. On Monday, I saw an ad offering basic and digital service for $1 so I said now would be a good time. Plus I have my internet through Comcast, so that price dropped too.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Walter Lambert said:


> The second problem is that Comcast does not have Tivo, although they indicate that they plan to offer that option in March, 2006.


Where did you hear the March date? Although the deal with Comcast was announced last year, I've never seen the actual availability date announced.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Comcast HD PQ is equal or better to DirecTV in my area. I thought Comcast wasn't compressing their HD signals at all? DirecTV is heavily compressing HD.

On a 720p set it's likely not very noticable, but on 1080p sets it's very noticable (to me).


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

The March 2006 date for the release of the Comcast/Tivo download came from Comcast personnel in Exeter, NH. In an e-mail, Comcast corporate personnel in Philadelphia simply indicted that the Tivo download would be "later this year". I assume that the March date was merely tentative (or a rumor), and also assume that the Tivo download will be gradually be rolled out on a regional basis.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I currently use an HD TiVo with D*. Their MPEG-4 offerings are very uninteresting as they only have the big 4 networks, which I watch very rarely, and no TiVo*. When the series 3 TiVo is available, I'm going to try that and see if its any good. Comcast isn't that exciting, I got D* in the first place as I got really fed up with the cable company (previously AT&T here). Their HD offering isn't that much more interesting that D*. I could get the big 4 netowrks, but they don't have the other locals.

Comcast isn't exciting, but there's no future in D*.

*No TiVo and their DVR offereings are not getting good reviews.


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## UGARx (Sep 30, 2005)

I switched to Comcast for the $400 "ditch the dish" b/c the HD-TiVo was still too expensive. I was pleased with Comcast's HD package, suprisingly the INHD2, INHD2. I went back to D* a month later because...

1) Comcast DVR: Horrible (since I am coming from TiVo). In fact, the WIFE despised the thing. I read a post from someone who said, "Now I know why so few Americans have DVRs. They're not TiVo."

2) Non-HD quality: almost the same as D* on the digital channels offered by Comcast (channel #s > 100). Not much difference here although you CAN see the difference b/t D* and Comcast.

3) Channels #s < 100: Remember cable quality from years ago...? It's bad. Real bad. Unfortunately, popular channels are among these. This was a deal breaker for me.

4) Called D* CSR and got a great deal on the HR-250 with a 2-yr committment.

As you will read there is no easy answer. I wrestled with it for a while before switching to Comcast. The HD pkg is by far better since you get locals in HD. Huge plus. Most non-HD channels stink. Period.

Go to Comcast website and look at the channel lineup and keep in mind what I said above (channels < 100, > 100, etc.)

Hope this helps.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

smark said:


> We don't supply HDMI cables, only component.


But then Comcast can't hook it up correctly. Of the 6 people I know that had Comcast hook up their components last year, five of them had them connected wrong so they weren't actually receiving HD. The Comcast techs that came out were apparently clueless. And this was in the DC meropolitan area.


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## Sherman67 (Aug 27, 2004)

I called Comcast and they came back out to look at my setup. Comcast's 24 hour service call is a big plus over D*. The tech did something (wife was home instead of me during his visit) and now my Comcast picture quality is much better. I can now say that it is better than D*. On the minus side for Comcast though is cost and their dvr. I have D* premier package and their cost is cheaper than Comcast's package with 2 movie channels.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Sherman67 said:


> I called Comcast and they came back out to look at my setup. Comcast's 24 hour service call is a big plus over D*. The tech did something (wife was home instead of me during his visit) and now my Comcast picture quality is much better. I can now say that it is better than D*. On the minus side for Comcast though is cost and their dvr. I have D* premier package and their cost is cheaper than Comcast's package with 2 movie channels.


You must not have negotiated a good deal then. If I was paying full price, Comcast would be a lot more but I got a ditch the dish price that's good for 12-16 months. When that time arrives, I can change again (or anytime in between really, since you don't have to sign a contract with Comcast.)


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## johnh123 (Dec 7, 2000)

Has anybody heard if Comcast plans to increase the storage available on their pvr's? That is the main dealbreaker for me, at this point. I need a lot more than 15 hrs of HD.


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

I have been struck by the sense of sadness that tends to permeate this thread and other threads on this forum regarding the current state of D*. Perhaps it is more symbolic than real, but remember the television ads that used to trumpet D*s number #1 consumer rating regarding customer service. On this forum, many long time contributors and advocates of D* have expressed their frustration with the decline in D*s CS, products, lineup, and PQ. Although changes in technology and competition have clearly had an impact on the landscape during the past year, I cant help but feel that Rupert Murdochs impact on the print media (tabloid journalism) is replicated in the management decisions that have reduced a quality product and company to mass mediocrity. I have no doubt that Rupert will do well financially, as he had done in the print media, but it is sad to see D*s current struggles exasperated by poor management decisions.


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

Pardon misspelling: change exasperated to exacerbated


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Six months ago, I would not have DREAMED that I would currently be using Comcast instead of D*. If I had not had to get a new TV I would still be using D*. Had they been interested in offering me the same discounts they offered hundreds of others on the HD Tivo, I would be as well. They are digging their own grave, from what I see.


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## asills (Dec 23, 2004)

UGARx said:


> I switched to Comcast for the $400 "ditch the dish" b/c the HD-TiVo was still too expensive. I was pleased with Comcast's HD package, suprisingly the INHD2, INHD2. I went back to D* a month later because...


I'm in Dallas and the horrible setup they have here prevents the dual tuner. A coworker of mine in a nearby city has the dual tuner and while it's better (it at least has dual tuners) it's nowhere near the quality of TiVo.

I had HD Comcast for about 4 days before I cancelled my service (luckily I hadn't cancelled my D* service just in case). I loved the HD (in a sense, I was sick of seeing pock marks on my local newscaster's face), but I'm not willing to pay for an HD DTiVo when they're going to make it obsolete. There is no doubt that when the Series3 TiVo comes out and if/when the crappy A/B stuff works with Comcast then I'll be getting a CableCARD and switching to Comcast from D*.

Now, the Comcast DVR is okay if you're willing to live with ugly. But after 4 years with TiVo, I just can't do it any more. I can deal with the slow D* guide, but I can't deal with how unacceptably ugly the Comcast interface is. Not only are the colors horrible (you have 4 horrible choices), the layout horrible (you can't even see 1 level of shows on their guide because they don't use enough screen real estate), the Bowflex ads horrible (don't put ads on my menu!), but the Comcast DVR is like choosing to drive a Pinto after having been driving a Porsche. It's just completely unacceptable.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

Just had my 6412 III installed. It's ok, but no tivo. The HD is ok, but not as good as DirecTV was. There is no CBS HD here in portland. Mind you, 4 years ago DirecTV had NO cbs at all - The Portland affiliate holds out for more money I am told.

So I get to watch the games in SD. 

Had the pvr go very slow in reverse, which the installer thought was odd. Switched channels, then it was ok after some buffering.

After he called in, they pinged the box, which reset things. Then lip-sync was off until I changed channels.

Menus are fast. Recording shows is lame, whoever thought that a linear scroll through letters was good should be shot 

I'm noticing more jaggies in HD than I did with DirecTV, but then again, I'm noticing them with my upscaling DVD player too, so I'm not sure if something got reset with the tv being unplugged for awhile or what. It is a 1080i set but I didn't notice them before at all.

So, is better than no TV, but when the TiVO series 3 comes out.....


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## StarsHockey (Feb 21, 2003)

asills said:


> I'm in Dallas and the horrible setup they have here prevents the dual tuner. A coworker of mine in a nearby city has the dual tuner and while it's better (it at least has dual tuners) it's nowhere near the quality of TiVo.
> 
> I had HD Comcast for about 4 days before I cancelled my service (luckily I hadn't cancelled my D* service just in case). I loved the HD (in a sense, I was sick of seeing pock marks on my local newscaster's face), but I'm not willing to pay for an HD DTiVo when they're going to make it obsolete. There is no doubt that when the Series3 TiVo comes out and if/when the crappy A/B stuff works with Comcast then I'll be getting a CableCARD and switching to Comcast from D*.
> 
> Now, the Comcast DVR is okay if you're willing to live with ugly. But after 4 years with TiVo, I just can't do it any more. I can deal with the slow D* guide, but I can't deal with how unacceptably ugly the Comcast interface is. Not only are the colors horrible (you have 4 horrible choices), the layout horrible (you can't even see 1 level of shows on their guide because they don't use enough screen real estate), the Bowflex ads horrible (don't put ads on my menu!), but the Comcast DVR is like choosing to drive a Pinto after having been driving a Porsche. It's just completely unacceptable.


I am in the Dallas area and well and am very concerned about losing so many features, but am hoping the $70 savings a month is worth it. That stupid A/B thing really get's to me though.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

HD on FOX looks pretty damn good.

The 6412 Series III still has crazy bugs. I've had it get confused no less than 4 times and refuse to take any input other than "exit" to the main menu.

I entered "24" and pressed ok to search for 24. Nothing. 24 something else in spanish, but no 24. So I go to the guide for tomorrow, and its there. Day +- is nice, when it works.

So I go back and enter 24 again. Still nothing. So on a lark I scroll UP and whoa, there is 24, on the previous page! Why the hell would they scroll to the middle of the 24s? Who knows.

When you enter a show, it always chooses the SD channels and only shows that channel. You have to know to use the upcoming episodes and then choose the HD channel. This could be better.

The series options seem sufficient.

The live tv button doesn't work from most menus, I have to exit, then live tv. Sigh.

The swap button doesn't work from menus, I have to exit first. I need to figure out where I will put swap on my harmony. Probably on the screen.

the menus are fast! Like 10x faster than the HD Tivo.

the SD quality is horrible.

The hard disk is way too small. Too bad they are lame and don't support the included firewire ports.

The inputs are not turned on. Boo.

Wow, the play bar is really useless when REW, etc. the demarkations are useless, I can't figure out how to jump in 15min increments, etc. What the heck is that big white bar mean with a little green bar to the right of it?


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## The_Dude99 (Dec 4, 2005)

sriggins said:


> HD on FOX looks pretty damn good.
> 
> The 6412 Series III still has crazy bugs. I've had it get confused no less than 4 times and refuse to take any input other than "exit" to the main menu.
> 
> ...


Sriggins,

The little white bar appears when a show is already over, but the show is still in your tuner buffer. The green bar means the show is currently on/playing. The red bar means you are recording. You cant record a show that is over and in your buffer. I started a discussion about switching to Comcast(Why Stay with Direct Tv???????? ), everyone told me I was crazy. It is good to see people are happy with the deal, and hd dvr, but upset with no Tivo. That is exactly how I felt, and I cant wait for the HD Tivo for Comcast. All I wanted was the HD dvr that I didnt have to buy. D* is dead to me.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

The_Dude99 said:


> Sriggins,
> 
> The little white bar appears when a show is already over, but the show is still in your tuner buffer. The green bar means the show is currently on/playing. The red bar means you are recording. You cant record a show that is over and in your buffer. I started a discussion about switching to Comcast(Why Stay with Direct Tv???????? ), everyone told me I was crazy. It is good to see people are happy with the deal, and hd dvr, but upset with no Tivo. That is exactly how I felt, and I cant wait for the HD Tivo for Comcast. All I wanted was the HD dvr that I didnt have to buy. D* is dead to me.


yeah someone told me "it works good enough" and I said yeah, thats like telling a Mac user Windows is good enough. 

It'll be interesting to see how much the Tivo series 3 will cost, if comcast will rent them, etc.

I've been in Direcgtivo land for so long, I don't know what a current tivo is like. If I can get the menu speed of the 6412 but all of the fine touches of the tivo. mmmm


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

BeanMeScot said:


> Six months ago, I would not have DREAMED that I would currently be using Comcast instead of D*. If I had not had to get a new TV I would still be using D*. Had they been interested in offering me the same discounts they offered hundreds of others on the HD Tivo, I would be as well. They are digging their own grave, from what I see.


Ditto. Never thought I'd go back to cable, but once Comcast starts expanding their HD offerings and the Series 3 is released, they will be getting a strong look here.

I've got no interest in the H20 family, don't want a new 40+ 5 LNB dish (actually don't think I can mount it where the current dish is). I want good quality HD, but it seems like DTV doesn't want true HD for their customers, only something just better enough than their already over-compressed SD signals so they can offer "get high def with true digital quality and check out our new dating channel"

I came to DirecTV after many years with Dish, primarily because of Tivo and better quality. Now that DTV isn't apparently interested in either, a Series 3 Tivo and a cable provider with good quality HD offerings will likely cost DTV a six plus year customer.

But I'm sure DTV doesn't care and probably doesn't have a clue about how many of their high-end, long term customers they are going to lose - some over Tivo, some over picture quality, and that will accelerate as DirecTV pricing increases and no longer has a significant advantage over cable.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

StarsHockey said:


> That stupid A/B thing really get's to me though.


What is the A/B thing?


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## asills (Dec 23, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> What is the A/B thing?


Some cities (Dallas, TX being one of them) had old infrastructure that was never really upgraded but instead "expanded" to have two lines going into every house. An A line and a B line. The cable boxes have a spot for an A coax and a B coax and different channels are located on either A or B.

Since this is so old, nobody in their right mind would support it aside from the cable companies that still have to deal with it and don't want to upgrade their infrastructure.

If I'm not mistaken, one of the two lines is better than the other; e.g., it supports 2-way communication (you can't put a cable modem on either one, has to be specific).


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

asills said:


> Some cities (Dallas, TX being one of them) had old infrastructure that was never really upgraded but instead "expanded" to have two lines going into every house. An A line and a B line. The cable boxes have a spot for an A coax and a B coax and different channels are located on either A or B.


Wow. I never heard of that before. At least it's not as stupid as DirecTV, which thinks that 4 coaxes from the dish make sense. And two coaxes to every TiVo.


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## Daytona24 (Jun 8, 2005)

Right now in my neck of the woods Adelphia is still the offering although Comcast has taken over, no switch yet made. My DTV contract is up in March and will probably slim it down to 1 tv w/ TIVO. I have cable for HD now since I dont want to use an antenna, pay $500 for the HD TIVO and get into a 2 year contract. I figure I will probably pick up full cable and add another DVR for upstairs, the wife likes the on demand stuff, especially HBO.

DTV has made alot of cool announcements at CES, although noone knows when anything will happen. I'll keep DTV around at least because of football.

Once Comcast takes over and they pick up the last two locals it will be the better offering, DTV's HD offering is terrible IMO.

I just dont want to get into a contract (especially 2 years!) without knowing whos going to do what and when, good thing about cable I could pick it up in March, DTV could offer the world in April and I wouldnt be in a commitment that I wouldnt be able to get out of.

I would hate if I got in a 2 year and then all of a sudden Comcast offered all locals, TIVO and HMO, that would SUCK!


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Wow. I never heard of that before. At least it's not as stupid as DirecTV, which thinks that 4 coaxes from the dish make sense. And two coaxes to every TiVo.


Not really D*'s fault -- that's the nature of DBS systems.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

Was editing a series and this 6412 just rebooted and lost all guide info and menu says it is "reconfiguring" Right in the middle of recording two shows, too. Sigh.

How does one beta test a series 3 for TiVo? I've only used them since year 1!


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

Walter Lambert said:


> I have been struck by the sense of sadness that tends to permeate this thread and other threads on this forum regarding the current state of D*. Perhaps it is more symbolic than real, but remember the television ads that used to trumpet D*s number #1 consumer rating regarding customer service. On this forum, many long time contributors and advocates of D* have expressed their frustration with the decline in D*s CS, products, lineup, and PQ.


Yep. I was actually accused of being on DirecTV's payroll years ago, but that just clearly isn't the case anymore, is it?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

I too have become disillusioned with DTV lately. The lack of HD and the lackadaisical attitude toward it has bothered me. Also the 2 year lock in is ridiculous. I have been leaning toward Dish and the 25 HD channels they offer, but have not fully decided yet.

I'll be out our commitment in June but to get out sooner can't really cost all that much. It gives me time to investigate our options. CC's analog is really snowy here, so I am not impressed.

What is the benefit of *suspending* our DTV account as opposed to cancelling service?


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## Onazuka (Sep 22, 2001)

Im going to leave for Comcastg too, especially since I heard that the new HR20 still needs a phone line. the only think that keeps me from going is the small 10 hours of HD storage on the comcast DVR. If that gets larger, or TiVo or Apple ship their DVR for Comcast I will definitely switch.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

JeffGrimes said:


> II'd like to hear from converts...those that have recently left DirecTv for Comcast...Pros and Cons of switching...Problems you've had with audio drop-outs, or similar service-related concerns...


Well, I'm a recent convert from DTV to Comcast, and honestly, *gulp* I've been really happy with the Comcast box. I wrote about my full rant in switching in this thread.

Some PROS of switching to Comcast (in no particular order):
1. No 2-year contact
2. No big upfront costs
3. No dish to install
4. No running of a ton of separate coax lines to each box
5. Homes pre-wired for cable tv can just use the existing ONE line from wall
6. The generic Motorola 6412 Phase III box is actually quite good with little quirks such as odd menu functionalty, etc.
7. DTV's future is without TiVo®, Comcast will have an actual TiVo® brand DVR soon
8. All locals are setup with the Comcast box, with no antenna needed and that includes PBS for my area.
9. Actually cheaper for me. The $9.99/mo cost includes the HD DVR rental PLUS the High Def programming package (all HD network locals, Discovery HD, ESPN HD and HBO HD)
10. If your house is pre-wired, just splice the cable to get "free" analog cable (usually up to channel 70 or so) with no $4.99/mo charge for an extra receiver, etc.

Some CONS of switching to Comcast (in no particular order):
1. Currently not a TiVo Brand DVR. (Doesn't have wishlists, keyboard entry is odd, etc.)
2. No Sunday Ticket option
3. Less recording time on their DVRs and they aren't hackable for extra space

For me, the PROS actually really really outweigh the CONS by a mile, and I'm glad I switched to Comcast. Honestly.

NOTE: The only technical glitch I've found with the Motorola 6412 Phase III HD DVR box is that my box would not record in 5.1 audio. Live TV would have 5.1 audio, but recordings (or if you used the buffer) was not in 5.1. However, this only was for those using HDMI, toslink audio to a receiver and with old firmware for the box. The solution is to have Comcast upgrade the firmware, or use component outputs instead.

I hope that helps.


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

Thanks for your take.


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## post-scrat (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm just waiting for the Comcast Tech to arrive in a couple days to bring me the HD receiver. I debated on getting the HD/DVR but my wife loves the Tivo functions too much. So just doing the HD and then hooking up the Tivo for now. However, I keep hearing Comcast is going to come out with a tivo based DVR. 

Does anyone know when ? Cause as soon as it does I'm going to upgrade to it so everything is all in one simple to manageable package....fingers crossed.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

does comcast have moxi boxes at all or is that something little cable companies like mine have?


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## moneytrain8 (Feb 8, 2005)

I have had Comcast... well... forever. I bought a Sony 51" HD Projection TV last December, so I eagerly ordered the HD services.

To boot, back in September, Comcast here in Baltimore made available the Explorer 8300HD (which I think is a Scientific Atlanta) box. It has the HD DVR, but has HDMI output (different from the box I had before that, which had DVI output. I just bought a DVI to HDMI cable. Worked fine). I was excited at the chance to have a "true" HDMI signal, so I had them bring one out.

I've been immensely happy with the PQ of the service. Comcast here offers about 15-18 HD channels, so to be honest, I spend most of my time watching those channels.

However, as a TiVo owner (SDH400), I must say I am extremely unhappy with the HD DVR from Comcast. Mainly because of a couple things that it really seems like it should do:

1) If I turn "Lost" on at 9:20, I have to rewind all the way back through the show to start over. We usually just cover our eyes so we don't see anything that has happened yet.

2) In the situation above, if the show ends (10 p.m.), but we're only 3/4 of the way through the show, the DVR "cuts" to present time (so we end up with the start of the next show on the TV), and then have to go into the DVR menu, start the show back up, and FF all the way to where we left off.

3) The Comcast DVR doesn't have the "jump back" feature TiVo has, when you stop FFing and TiVo will click back a couple seconds. I usually end up getting a few seconds (or more) into the show, and then have to RW to get it back to the exact commercial end point.

I guess this was their [email protected] attempt at getting a DVR out there with HDMI. If it were not for these glitches (#3 is not that big a deal), this would be a great box and would get most of my recording schedule. But Comcast's (usual) lack of follow-through has necessitated my use of the TiVo box... 

We'll just have to wait and see when the Comcast/TiVo box is released and give it a whirl.

Thanks.


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## elbodude (Feb 15, 2005)

moneytrain8 said:


> I have had Comcast... well... forever. I bought a Sony 51" HD Projection TV last December, so I eagerly ordered the HD services.
> 
> To boot, back in September, Comcast here in Baltimore made available the Explorer 8300HD (which I think is a Scientific Atlanta) box. It has the HD DVR, but has HDMI output (different from the box I had before that, which had DVI output. I just bought a DVI to HDMI cable. Worked fine). I was excited at the chance to have a "true" HDMI signal, so I had them bring one out.
> 
> ...


Those 3 issues are annoying to me as well. I don't have the box, but my father does. One other thing that bugged me about his Comcast box. If you are recording a show on one tuner and press the channel up button, you would get a warning about swapping tuners. The TiVo box is smart enough to swap tuners if you wanted to change channels during a show being recorded. I hope Comcast can fix this "bug" soon. I am ready to dump D*!


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## moneytrain8 (Feb 8, 2005)

Well, maybe it's an older box he has, but I can tape two shows at once with the Comcast HD. I only get that "warning" you speak of when I am taping two shows at once... if yu are taping NBC and ABC, for example, you have to watch one of those two stations. Trying to switch to Fox will cause that warning to appear. But if I'm only taping NBC, it won't give me that warning message if I try to change the channel...

Maybe it's just the model of box.


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## atarth (Jan 31, 2002)

I was a long time D* user with multiple hacked TiVo's and the wife and I were very happy DTiVo'ers for a very long time. Then I noticed normal PQ dropping and began to get a little concerned. And then they severed the TiVo relationship.  

When I wanted to make the switch to HD last summer, I looked long and hard at the HR10-250 but couldn't justify the outlay of money (that was before or right around the big price drop) and the deal breaker was no carriage of my local baseball and hockey in HD. And my Red Sox in HD was a primary driver for making the upgrade.

So I reluctanlty switched to Comcast hoping that in the near future D* would get their act together and we would then switch back. But as time goes on, that looks less and less likely to happen. With no mpeg4 DVR (I can't get locals via antenna) and no RSN's in HD in the forseeable future, I become more convinced I made the right call. And I've been pretty satisifed with Comcast since the switch, which was totally unexpected because I had moved to D* in the first place because of consistently horrid cable experiences.

I agree with everyone's input on some of the minor annoyances in the Comcast HD DVR box, but the PQ is simply amazing for HD (and has recently improved dramatically in my area for non-HD due to an all digital conversion). The box can still only hold about 15 hours of HD or it can hold 100+ hours of non-HD, or some combination thereof. We've learned to become more frugal with what we store and have arrived at a truce of sorts with the space issue.

One caveat, my better half was not happy at all with the switch because she was definitely a big fan of the TiVo interface (and the lack of minor annoyances), but over time has come around mostly because of her fondness for On Demand. Of course, once Comcast rolls out the TiVo option and/or the Series 3 comes out, I'm confident we'll be back in business. Sometimes its harder than others to be an early adopter...


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

I have had comcast for several weeks in conjunction with my 2 hdtivos and find myself using the 6412 seriesIII 90% of the time. The picture quality for HD and SD is better with comcast since the conversion to all digital in my area. I have only had to reboot once and since have had no problems. 
My wife and I use OnDemand alot (many choices of programming for the whole family so we don't have to waste space on the 6412. 
Lastly, i have just added a sony dhg hdd500 with cable card, records 60 hrs of HD, has a decent 8 day onscreen guide, hdmi, one touch daily or weekly recordings and 500gig hd space (2 x 250gb). It only has one tuner but with my 6412 I really have 3 tuners...Best part about 6412 and sony 500hdd aside from PQ is the SPEED! 
NO MORE "Please Wait" for me. I now have 2 HR10-250s for sale! 
The "New" all digital comcast is AWESOME......


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## JeffGrimes (Nov 2, 2000)

Sorry I haven't been around to reply to my own post. I truly appreciate all the responses.

I'm ready to jump onto the Comcast bandwagon, but have one issue! I can't afford a new HiDef TV right now.

So, here is my question...If I convert to Comcast, with there HiDef DVR...can I get 5.1 audio from the HiDef signals, but watch them in standard-Def through Component or S-Video?

I suspect with the compression gone, my locals would come across MUCH better than D*...and if the audio goes 5.1, then my $5K audio system can get the workout it deserves during our network shows...

Can anyone try this? 

Thanks


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## peterbilt (May 29, 2003)

JeffGrimes said:


> So, here is my question...If I convert to Comcast, with there HiDef DVR...can I get 5.1 audio from the HiDef signals, but watch them in standard-Def through Component or S-Video?
> 
> I suspect with the compression gone, my locals would come across MUCH better than D*...and if the audio goes 5.1, then my $5K audio system can get the workout it deserves during our network shows...


Yes. I have 6412's connected to three TV's, one of which is HD. It downconverts the signals to 480i for the HD channels so you can watch DicoveryHD, INHD, ESPNHD, etc. on non-HD TV's. This feature may exist on all HD receivers and it's just that I never hooked one up to an SDTV, but it suprised me.

We do not have an all digital cable system, so the PQ of the local channels is pitiful. I must say that it is greatly improved (read: watchable) with the 6412 Pahse III vs the previous versions, but I still wouldn't call it much of an improvement over D*. A good workaround is to watch the local HD channels. This way you get a nice picture in a letterbox format. This doesn't work as well when the channel is showing SD content, however, because you letterbox a letterbox and create a large black border around the picture.

There is plenty of DD audio.  But don't you get plenty of 5.1 now?

I'm also one of the "tweeners" comparing D* and Comcast. So far it's been a push. OnDemand is cool but in three or four weeks we've only used it twice. Through the greatness of TiVo we always have enough stuff to watch. There's already stuff that I want to watch but just don't have time for. I don't know that I really need more stuff to watch. (I must be getting old)

I find the PQ to be a push as well. Some looks better on C* and some looks better on D*. (Please feel free to not argue with me on this point)

The programming cost is also a push. This is only because of "Ditch the Dish", otherwise C* would be much more. Obviously D* equipment cost is higher if you _ever _ pay for _anything _ since C* is $0 up front. I only give C* a slight edge since D* hasn't really cost me that much in equipment.

The usability factor is definitely is D*'s favor. How can you beat TiVo? Each of the three 6412's has it's own unique flaws. Not to bore you with the specifics, but it's a drag to use them most of the time.

Mostly because of this last point and input from the family I think I'm going to stick with D*.

I sure wish I knew when that Comcast Tivo is supposed to arrive. That could really sway my decision, but without some more information soon it's going to stay D*.


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

peterbilt said:


> I sure wish I knew when that Comcast Tivo is supposed to arrive.


Yeah, me too.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

smark said:


> We don't supply HDMI cables, only component.


My brother got an HDMI cable with Comcast last month.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

formulaben said:


> Yeah, me too.


Me, three. But if the max capacity is 120gb it goes when the Series 3 arrives.


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Gregor said:


> My brother got an HDMI cable with Comcast last month.


Well that may be new


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I just got an offer from Comcast for a free 20" HD LCD TV if I switch from satellite to HD cable. If they offer that in your area you'll get an HD TV you can afford--FREE!


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## ganggreen (Jun 9, 2003)

jamesbobo said:


> I just got an offer from Comcast for a free 20" HD LCD TV if I switch from satellite to HD cable. If they offer that in your area you'll get an HD TV you can afford--FREE!


Where'd you find that offer? I've looked for it and can't seem to find it.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

moneytrain8 said:


> However, as a TiVo owner (SDH400), I must say I am extremely unhappy with the HD DVR from Comcast. Mainly because of a couple things that it really seems like it should do:
> 
> 1) If I turn "Lost" on at 9:20, I have to rewind all the way back through the show to start over. We usually just cover our eyes so we don't see anything that has happened yet.


True, but if you're also recording the show, you can go to your Recordings list and play it from there fromt he beginning.



> 2) In the situation above, if the show ends (10 p.m.), but we're only 3/4 of the way through the show, the DVR "cuts" to present time (so we end up with the start of the next show on the TV), and then have to go into the DVR menu, start the show back up, and FF all the way to where we left off.


See above. Problem solved.



> 3) The Comcast DVR doesn't have the "jump back" feature TiVo has, when you stop FFing and TiVo will click back a couple seconds. I usually end up getting a few seconds (or more) into the show, and then have to RW to get it back to the exact commercial end point.


To exit FF, press the Jumpback button instead of the Play button. That will back you up 15 seconds (I believe) from where you end up had you pushed Play. Not as "smart" as tivo's software, but better than nothing.

Please note that I am in no way suggesting that the Moto box even approaches the functionality of the tivo software. It doesn't. But in the 1.5 years I've been using the 6412 it's served me well by giving me a HD DVR when Tivo offered none (can't get DTV - too many trees).


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## johnh123 (Dec 7, 2000)

I think I could deal with most of these flaws, but the HD recording time is a real problem for me. 15 hours? They really need to offer a box with more time.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

UGARx said:


> I switched to Comcast for the $400 "ditch the dish" b/c the HD-TiVo was still too expensive. I was pleased with Comcast's HD package, suprisingly the INHD2, INHD2. I went back to D* a month later because...
> 
> 1) Comcast DVR: Horrible (since I am coming from TiVo). In fact, the WIFE despised the thing. I read a post from someone who said, "Now I know why so few Americans have DVRs. They're not TiVo."
> 
> ...


In annapolis md Comcast has converted to all digital and my HD and SD pq looks better with comcast. Unfortunately it sounds like you are not all digital yet. Also I got the moto6412 series III - BEST DVR i've used since UTV! You should do like Sherman67 and have comcast come back out - something else may explain your problems. Sorry to hear DTV locked you for 2 more years as all digital cable is closing in and several cablecard HD Dvrs are coming out this year and beyond. DTV is a great alternative though if you don't have another choice.


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## sotapoppy (Feb 7, 2004)

I've read quite a few posts in numerous threads as to why D* sucks, and why all of a sudden Comcast doesn't. 

Many have pointed out the upfront cost via D* is high. But not always. I have 5 dvrs. Of those, 2 are standard Directivos, 2 are HR10s and 1 is an R-15. The only dvrs for which I paid anything to speak of are my very first Sony SAT-T60 years ago and 1 of the HR10s. The rest were virtually free after rebates, credits & D* discounts. If and when I leave D*, those dvrs are mine to sell, even the free ones. 

Many have stated pic quality is superior on Comcast. However, since the vast majority of my HD viewing is on OTA networks I doubt this is relevant to me. I can't imagine Comcast's HD locals would be any better, if as good as, OTA. My non HD viewing is superior on D* vs Comcast in my area. 

Some have said the Comcast dvrs are better in some ways, ie the ability to continue viewing a program while you scan the guide or setup recordings, etc. Personally, I view this as a plus with the tivo units. I prefer more real estate for the guide, menus, etc. My viewing habits are essentially to select what I've recorded and watch it. I'm not watching a program while I'm scheduling something else to record. I've already done that ahead of time and I let tivo do its thing. 

Some have said the Comcast dvrs are faster than the tivos. That's true. So is my POS R-15. For me, the slow speed factor only seems to be relevant on the HR10s when I'm managing season passes, and this is not very often. I rarely scroll through the guide. 

Some have said with Comcast you have only one coax, no ugly dish and no antenna. I say so what. My house is already wired, the antenna is stealth like and barely noticable and I don't think the dish is ugly at all.

Some have saved money through Comcast. My research shows I would pay more to get "similar" setups. If I switched to Comcast, I could then pay more and wind up with more HD channels that I most likely would not watch and watch inferior pic quality on the non HD channels that I do watch. 

Bottom line for me is - do I get the channels that I want to watch, do I get the best pic quality on those channels and can I rely on my dvr to record what I want. Clearly YMMV


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## mst3k (Jun 11, 2003)

I am considering the jump myself. I was so mad at D* because of the ridiculous dropout and freezeups during the olympics on NBCHD. I have cable Hispeed modem and as a result a cable feed that I hook to my TV. I have basic cable with it and have a new Sony XBR 960 HD TV, w/ builtin HD tuner I also can get the networks, Discovery, and a couple of other HD feeds from cable. I saw no dropouts or freezes during the olympics on that feed. The Olympics on D* HDTivo were so bad that I seriously could not get thru even one event without freezes. I was watching the Ice dancing and the short track event with Ohno winning and got freezes more than once during the same race or dance. I was hating D*.

I was so ready to make the jump. Now, the olympics are over and Ive been watching D*tivo tonite Hd and not one freeze or pixelation has occurred all nite.
I don't get it. Was the olympic HD feed an experiment in new tech? Was the bandwidth just too much for D* to deal with?? I don't know. Im still considering the switch, especially being that D* is saying bye bye to Tivo and Cable is embracing it. 


I am presently in a wait and see stance.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

sotapoppy said:


> Some have said with Comcast you have only one coax, no ugly dish and no antenna. I say so what. My house is already wired, the antenna is stealth like and barely noticable and I don't think the dish is ugly at all.


I would assume most people dont have each room pre-wired for at least 3 lines of coax. So it's a lot more than "so what?" when a DTV tech as to come out lay that much coax on top of installing the new 35lb 5-lnb dish. That was the real deal-breaker for me. There were many other factors as well, but when the Comcast box can use the existing ONE line of coax and I now have a dual tuner HD DVR with locals, so when it came to the switch from DTV to Comcast for me, it's more like "Why not?"


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## sotapoppy (Feb 7, 2004)

inaka said:


> I would assume most people dont have each room pre-wired for at least 3 lines of coax. So it's a lot more than "so what?" when a DTV tech as to come out lay that much coax on top of installing the new 35lb 5-lnb dish. That was the real deal-breaker for me. There were many other factors as well, but when the Comcast box can use the existing ONE line of coax and I now have a dual tuner HD DVR with locals, so when it came to the switch from DTV to Comcast for me, it's more like "Why not?"


As I said, YMMV

As to wiring, I did most of my wiring myself in a few hours. Also, since I fished all wires per location simultaneously, it took the ~ same effort as one wire. In any event, the wiring is irrelevant to one considering a switch if the wiring is already done, no?

I haven't seen the 5-lnb dish and maybe I too wouldn't like that dish. But since I'm not concerned about the switch to Mpeg4 and since I'm okay with my existing dish's appearance, and since it's already mounted, it too is a non factor to me if I were considering a switch at this time. In fact, if I did switch I imagine I'd leave the dish where it is in case I decided to switch back.

I should mention that I currently have Comcast cable basic along with my internet service. My daughter's boy friend is a Comcast tech. He tried to convince me that Comcast was the way to go for me. I even let him "install" the digital package with HD. After an hour or so of comparisons of quality and price, he agreed with me that in my case given the channels I watch, I'm better off as is "for now".

I'll be the first to point out, however, I'd probably switch if I didn't get all of my HD locals OTA.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

sotapoppy said:


> Bottom line for me is - do I get the channels that I want to watch, do I get the best pic quality on those channels and can I rely on my dvr to record what I want. Clearly YMMV


I was skeptical about comcast like you once. If available to you (Comcast all digital service), I would have them come out and install. Compare both services for a week or so and see if having more HD movie channels, a lightening FAST interface, an AWESOME library of Video On Demand programming and better PQ really matters. For me it did. You may be very surprised!

And remember, since DTV is the ONLY hdtv service provider with MANDATORY contracts, you can call comcast and discontinue service AT NO CHARGE other than your trial usage. It will only cost you some time and very little $$$. And keep the cable run for the future.....


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## sotapoppy (Feb 7, 2004)

fastep said:


> I was skeptical about comcast like you once. If available to you (Comcast all digital service), I would have them come out and install. Compare both services for a week or so and see if having more HD movie channels, a lightening FAST interface, an AWESOME library of Video On Demand programming and better PQ really matters. For me it did. You may be very surprised!
> 
> And remember, since DTV is the ONLY hdtv service provider with MANDATORY contracts, you can call comcast and discontinue service AT NO CHARGE other than your trial usage. It will only cost you some time and very little $$$. And keep the cable run for the future.....


To be honest, I'm not skeptical about Comcast. While your points are valid, the fact remains Comcast is not all digital to my area right now. As I stated in an earlier post, I did allow my daughter's boy friend to "install" the digital cable package. I failed to mention that it was during this "install" that I learned it is not _all _ digital. If and when they are, I do plan to try them again. For now, however, as I indicated earlier, my HD viewing is primarily OTA. The extra HD movie channels would be nice plus, but my non HD viewing which is currently digital via D* would not be via Comcast.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

I guess I have the same story as many others in this thread, I left Comcast ~3 years ago and was a very happy D* w/TIVO customer ever since. Even 3 weeks ago, I wouldnt have dreamed of leaving D*. But then I bought a very big HDTV and things changed 

D* sales representative told me about their HDTV offer and I found it insulting ($500 w/installation, after rebate + $11/month). That is when I started looking into Comcast and decided that they are worth a shot.

But here are the things that intrigued me:

- NO COMMITMENT!
- My new theater room is wired with one co-axial cable (my fault  )
- Free equipment
- Free first month
- ~$7/month less than D* w/HDTV would have cost me
- On Demand
- Future TIVO service (I was told at the end of March, but then it can be just some roomers that NH office is spreading  )

The lower than D* price is due to a $25/month credit as a former D* customer. I realize that it is only for 18 moths but, I am hoping during that time D* will get their act together, at which point I will gladly come back .

What do I loose by trying them out? The install is tomorrow afternoon (thanks to this forum, I made sure to ask for a dual tuner DVR  ). I should be able to add my reaction to it later this week. 

Yes, I now know that I could have called a freebie line and gotten a better HDTV deal from D*. But I do not want a 2 year commitment and equipment which would soon be outdated. As it stands, my next call to D* will probably be to cancel me service. That is unless I find some major flaws with Comcast  .


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I still keep evaluating comcast, but the killer for me that sent me to D* originally was multiple outlet fees. On top of the 9.95 per outlet DVR fee their is a charge for each box to get the premiums! the flat per outlet mirror fee from D* makes it mutch cheaper if you have three or more outlets.


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

TR7spyder said:


> I guess I have the same story as many others in this thread, I left Comcast ~3 years ago and was a very happy D* w/TIVO customer ever since. Even 3 weeks ago, I wouldnt have dreamed of leaving D*. But then I bought a very big HDTV and things changed
> 
> D* sales representative told me about their HDTV offer and I found it insulting ($500 w/installation, after rebate + $11/month). That is when I started looking into Comcast and decided that they are worth a shot.


Insulting indeed, expecially considering that a good portion of the customers with DirecTivo's represent DirecTV's most profitable customers, and based on their *OWN market research*, (pdf file) WE are the ones they need to take care of... 

It ain't happening. The numbers show that the majority of churn at that customer level comes from "competitive offers"....shocking!


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## Mark W (Dec 6, 2001)

Very interesting thread. It's funny how this forum has changed. If someone had brought up this up two years ago, they would have been ridiculed and run off the board. People used to be passionate about D* and particularly their DTivos. The huge quality gap that used to be there between D* and Comcast has simply almost disapeared.

HD has led to D*s downfall. They simply haven't handled the transition well. Maybe that will change in 2007. I KNOW that once Comcast gets a Tivo, I will definitely give them a shot. D* is still the better solution for me right now, but my passion is gone like so many others.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Mark W said:


> Very interesting thread. It's funny how this forum has changed. If someone had brought up this up two years ago, they would have been ridiculed and run off the board. People used to be passionate about D* and particularly their DTivos. The huge quality gap that used to be there between D* and Comcast has simply almost disapeared.


Well, I wasnt on this forum back then, but I would have been one of those people grabbing for the torches . Things have certainly turned around... 

I do have question for others who have undergone this switch. Does Comcast take away any of your old D* equipment? If so, I have to make sure that my D* TiVo is nowhere to be found, I do not care if they take my old receivers .


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

TR7spyder said:


> Well, I wasnt on this forum back then, but I would have been one of those people grabbing for the torches . Things have certainly turned around...
> 
> I do have question for others who have undergone this switch. Does Comcast take away any of your old D* equipment? If so, I have to make sure that my D* TiVo is nowhere to be found, I do not care if they take my old receivers .


I asked about a switch and Comcast wanted my dish and receiver. The installer I spoke with said they try to take a receiver, *but a dish is enough*, especially if you have a DirecTivo, as they know that it has resale value and let the customer keep it to sell.


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

Think they care which dish it is? I still have a 1-meter Winegard I used with 2 lnb's before HD and the P3 dish. It's helps me to keep from having a garage empty.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

formulaben said:


> I asked about a switch and Comcast wanted my dish and receiver. The installer I spoke with said they try to take a receiver, *but a dish is enough*, especially if you have a DirecTivo, as they know that it has resale value and let the customer keep it to sell.


Call and check with your local comcast. I recently switched and they only wanted a receiver (I gave an original DTV receiver). You can probably find some old dish somewhere if needed(ebay, garage sale etc) and give them that. I have kept my dish up just in case.

I'm sure there has to be some pack rats in this forum that saved the original dish in their attic. Hey anyone want to sell TR7spyder an old dish? $5 plus shipping ok? Come on now! Your wife will be impressed that you're cleaning out the attic!
Of course, then she'll want you to paint the garage.......


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks for the heads-up, guys! I will need a HDTV dish if I ever come back to D*, so I do not mind if they take the old one. The same goes for the old receivers. But I would like to keep the TIVO to play back some of the kids shows, which they never seem to be tired of .


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

TR7spyder said:


> Thanks for the heads-up, guys! I will need a HDTV dish if I ever come back to D*, so I do not mind if they take the old one. The same goes for the old receivers. But I would like to keep the TIVO to play back some of the kids shows, which they never seem to be tired of .


You got that right! BTW - OnDemand has many kids shows so you dont have to store on your HDD. Nice bonus with comcast.


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

Does Comcast really want your D* receiver or dish? It really depends on the local area. In my case, they only asked for a recent D* bill or receipt. In fact, I continued with D* for several weeks (I had both the HR10-250 and Motorola 6412 on the same TV set) to check out Comcast before I dropped D*. No problem. If possible, it may make sense to simply use both D* and Comcast (there is no contract with Comcast) for a few weeks until you make up your mind. In New England, Comcast is all digital and the PQ for both the HD and SD is much better than D*. The Moto phase III 6412 is very reliable and has the 30 sec. skip. I do wish that the Moto 6412 had the 28 day rule found on Tivo, but that may change when Comcast downloads Tivo (the rumor is the end of March).


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

Walter Lambert said:


> I do wish that the Moto 6412 had the 28 day rule found on Tivo, but that may change when Comcast downloads Tivo (the rumor is the end of March).


Huh? What's the "28 day rule"?


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

formulaben said:


> Huh? What's the "28 day rule"?


That season passes and wishlists do not record a program if it appears in the now playing list within 28 days (past or future).

That's so you don't record hundreds of copies of the same program if its repeated often. (Unless you set the options to all, with duplicates.)


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

Oh, thanks. I never set it up for repeats, so that's a new one for me.


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

When I switched from Dtv to Comcast about 2 months ago I told C I had to return my equipment. They then just wanted my last bill. I am quite happy with cable, as I was with Directv, but I wanted my locals in hd, high speed internet and Tivo so I went for the switch. I'm all digital so I'm very happy with the pq. I have switched back and forth between ota and cable, I get a couple of ota hd, and there isn't much, if any, difference.


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## RGHessel (Apr 30, 2003)

I've scanned these posts and saw maily discussions comparing D* HD Tivo with Comcast's HD DVR in terms of picture quality.

Can anyone comment on the picture quality of Comcast's DVR (using highest quality picture setting) recordings of regular (non-HD) programming compared to TiVo's? 

I have a Series 2 TiVo that I use with Comcast (digital) cable and a 50" Plasma. I find the picture quality (at highest quality setting) sort of crappy. 

Putting aside the lack of TiVo on Comcast's DVR, I am curious if the picture quality is noticably better than TiVo (for non-HD programming).

Thanks!


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Well since an SA Series 2 is doing analog capture/encoding, one would assume that Comcast's DVR has better picture quality, especially if it is just capturing the compressed digital stream and storing it to disk without re-encoding.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

RGHessel said:


> I've scanned these posts and saw maily discussions comparing D* HD Tivo with Comcast's HD DVR in terms of picture quality.
> 
> Can anyone comment on the picture quality of Comcast's DVR (using highest quality picture setting) recordings of regular (non-HD) programming compared to TiVo's?
> 
> ...


My comcast has recently gone all digital and both SD and HD pq is better with Comcast compared to my DTV HDTivo.


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

fastep said:


> My comcast has recently gone all digital and both SD and HD pq is better with Comcast compared to my DTV HDTivo.


I agree


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## kkluba (Oct 18, 2002)

Sounds like the CableCard Tivo Series 3 coupled with Comcast might be the ticket.



fastep said:


> My comcast has recently gone all digital and both SD and HD pq is better with Comcast compared to my DTV HDTivo.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Well, the cable guy came and installed the Comcast equipment. He was going to use component cables but I asked for HDMI connection (hoping that he will provide me with the cable). No such luck, he told me he can use my HDMI cable but he didnt have one of his own. So we ended-up borrowing a cable from my DVD player  .

He didnt ask for any D* equipment or even a bill (though, it was obvious that I still had D* service on my TVs).

My first impressions of Comcast DVR are mixed. There are a couple of new features that I like, but for most part it is not as good As with any new system, there is a learning curve, which will require some time to get familiar with it, but it is definitely not TiVo . The system is more awkward and it is definitely more slow!

It might not take as much time to start recording a show that you are currently watching as it does on a TiVo, but just about EVERYTHING else about it is slower! I especially dislike the looooonnnng pause between changing the channels! I am sure that I will learn to deal with it, but right now, it is very pronounced. Actually, I completely forgot about this pause, which, years ago, was one of the main reasons why I didnt want to get digital cable and looked into D*. And now, it is back  .

I am now eagerly awaiting the arrival of TiVo software for this DVR, however I have a feeling that it will happen just as my wife and I get used to this system. So if anyone is looking to do a similar migration and you do not like learning a new system, I would suggest waiting for Comcast to actually implement their TiVo operating system.

Speaking of which, the tech who installed my equipment, didnt even know about future Comcast/TiVo partnership, so naturally, he couldnt shed any light on when it might happen.

The only negative that we have to endure now is all the grief that we are going to catch from our friends who we have converted into D* customers over last few years.  I have already heard: Great, you tell me to get this thing and now YOU just the ship . However, we are the first in our circle of friends with HDTV requirements


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

TR7spyder said:


> Well, the cable guy came and installed the Comcast equipment. He was going to use component cables but I asked for HDMI connection (hoping that he will provide me with the cable). No such luck, he told me he can use my HDMI cable but he didnt have one of his own. So we ended-up borrowing a cable from my DVD player  .
> 
> He didnt ask for any D* equipment or even a bill (though, it was obvious that I still had D* service on my TVs).
> 
> ...


If you got the moto6412 seriesIII then you have a bad box. Call and get it replaced! A good box will be faster than any dvr you have tryed!


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## Batmanda (Mar 2, 2006)

Hey Fastep,

What model Comcast DVR is the newest and best right now? I have them coming on Saturday morning, and want to make sure I get the latest equipment.

Thanks,

Batmanda


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Batmanda said:


> What model Comcast DVR is the newest and best right now?


Depends on two things:

1) Are you on a Motorola plant or Scientific Atlanta plant?

Scientific Atlanta: Scientific Atlanta 8300HD (or 8300 if you just want SD)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

Motorola ...

2) Has Comcast implemented ADS for your plant?

No: Motorola DCT-6412 Phase III (with HDMI and SATA ports) ... or better the DCT-6416 w/ bigger hard drive but I don't think Comcast is deploying 6416's
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558602

Yes: Newest would be the Motorola DCT-3412 / DCT-3416 (bigger hard drive on the 3416). However, some feel the DCT-6412 is still better ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=604142


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Batmanda said:


> Hey Fastep,
> 
> What model Comcast DVR is the newest and best right now? I have them coming on Saturday morning, and want to make sure I get the latest equipment.
> 
> ...


Motorola 6412 Series III (should say "DCT6412 III" in lower right corner of box front). You should call prior to installation and specifically request this unit as they are limited (you should ask for a supervisor and tell them that you DO NOT want any other box). If you are adament, they will usually change the install order and the right box should show up. Hopefully there will be some available in your area.

Also - if you are not happy with anything about the install, DO NOT sign the work order. This will ensure the installer will come back to resolve whatever problem you had! Things to check before installer leaves:

1. Correct box delivered
2. Check all sd channels for any reception problems.
3. Check HD reception - tune to INHD (channel 226 in my area) and watch for 5 minutes or so. Check and make sure there is no pixelization. Then try StarzHD.
4. Connect HDMI (if you have one) and make sure it works. Leave component plugged in and toggle between HDMI and component inputs on you tv. 
5. Make sure both tuners work (you may have to toggle tuners by pressing 'swap' at bottom of remote.
6. Make sure the guide moves fast.
7. make sure optical audio works (if connected)


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

fastep said:


> Motorola 6412 Series III (should say "DCT6412 III" in lower right corner of box front). You should call prior to installation and specifically request this unit as they are limited (you should ask for a supervisor and tell them that you DO NOT want any other box). If you are adament, they will usually change the install order and the right box should show up. Hopefully there will be some available in your area.


OK... I have DCT3412 I , it is a Motorolla and it does have HDMI port.

Does anybody know it if is any good? Because it is SLOOOOOOW


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

TR7spyder said:


> OK... I have DCT3412 I , it is a Motorolla and it does have HDMI port.
> 
> Does anybody know it if is any good? Because it is SLOOOOOOW


My friend signed up on the same day as me and he got the 3412. His wasn't slow but his hdmi did wierd things to reception when he changed inputs after viewing with hdmi. He complained and got the 6412III and so far no problems.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

TR7spyder said:


> Does anybody know it if is any good? Because it is SLOOOOOOW


Lots and lots of DCT-3412 info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=604142


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## Batmanda (Mar 2, 2006)

Thanks! I'll call Comcast right now!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Batmanda said:


> Thanks! I'll call Comcast right now!


Please post your experience\opinions if you switch. Thanks.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Day 2 with Comcast DVR

Turned it on to find that has muted itself. After few unsuccessful attempts to "un-mute" it, I called Comcast (feeling pretty stupid). But CSR told me that this was a common problem. This DVR defaults to muting the sound when it turns on to record a program, this is done to avoid turning on the sound if you are driving sound through a receiver and leave it on. He talked me through two 3 number codes and this feature is now turned off (I hope).

It is still very slow Pausing is pretty quick but Playing afterwards takes ~1-2 seconds and it skips a fraction of a second (a big PITA when you are trying to analyze Lost scenes on a big screen TV ). On my TiVo, I have gotten accustomed to skipping ahead while watching football and baseball games, thus avoiding all the breaks in the action. I can see it being a much more difficult task to perform on this DVR.

This delay, combined with no sounds to confirm that you have selected something, makes you wonder if the DVR has received the command. This causes you to repeat commands, which, seems to confuse the DVR at times and it takes an even longer (10-15 sec) pause 

But I wonder if some of this has to do with HD, as I have never tried HD TiVo. For those who have used HD D* TiVo, is it slower than the SD D* TiVo when it comes to Play, FF and Rewind commands?

Picture quality (in HD) seems fine. SD on networks is pretty bad, but I doubt that I will be watching those in SD. The rest of the SD channels appear to be better than D*.


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## Batmanda (Mar 2, 2006)

TR7spyder,

I have the 50 inch version of your TV. I love the picture on this set. Have you plugged the raw cable feed into your Sony SXRD? I did, and was surprised to see all the channels I was able to get, including 6 - 8 HD channels. INHD and Discovery HD must be scrambled thru Comcast, so those are not available.

I'm also getting the feed for Pay-Per-View channels that my neighbors are ordering. I have no control over the show, and it's funny to be watching and all of a sudden the show rewinds a little and then starts playing again.

The picture quality from this feed is so good, I removed my digital cable box for the 2 weeks I've been waiting for Comcast to come out and install the HD DVR.

I'm sure once I get the DVR set-up, I'll still keep a raw feed into the Sony as an additional viewing source.

Try it and let me know how you make out!

Batmanda


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Batmanda said:


> I'm also getting the feed for Pay-Per-View channels that my neighbors are ordering. I have no control over the show, and it's funny to be watching and all of a sudden the show rewinds a little and then starts playing again.


Hey you should start a 'is this stealing' thread in the Happy Hour 

See anything good?


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## Batmanda (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes, I was able to watch some very interesting shows  

I'd love to find out which neighbor was ordering the programming!  

They were fast forwarding thru parts I wish they had slowed down a little!! I guess they were already finished!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I take it we aren't talking PG eh?


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

TR7spyder said:


> But I wonder if some of this has to do with HD, as I have never tried HD TiVo. For those who have used HD D* TiVo, is it slower than the SD D* TiVo when it comes to Play, FF and Rewind commands?


A bit, but not significantly slower -- not like what you describe. At least, not in my experience. I have some gripes about menu speed and the like (as all of us HR10-250 users do) but the trickplay stuff seems to work normally.

Unless, of course, a cat chooses to lay in front of the Tivo. That seems to cause a problem with the responsiveness of the remote. (Perhaps I'll check the Underground or ddb to see if there's a hack for that.)

--chris


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## abobrow (Jul 8, 2002)

RGHessel said:


> Can anyone comment on the picture quality of Comcast's DVR (using highest quality picture setting) recordings of regular (non-HD) programming compared to TiVo's?


There's a difference on the Comcast whether you're recording digital SD or analog SD. On my Comcast system (West LA) the lower channels are analog. The Comcast box does a terrible job with those channels. Tivo S2 has a much better analog tuner. But the digital channels show no noticeable difference between Comcast DVR and Tivo S2


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## jquinn6 (Jan 18, 2005)

To anyone who has both DTV and comcast HD, have you experienced interference from the Moto Comcast DVR causing the DTV DVR to pixilate. I have tried moving them apart, but the Comcast DVR, (6412, series III), makes the Hughes DVR-80 unusable. I've got a CC tech coming out on Wed. I'm thinking too much signal on the cable. Anyone else having this?


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

jquinn6 said:


> To anyone who has both DTV and comcast HD, have you experienced interference from the Moto Comcast DVR causing the DTV DVR to pixilate. I have tried moving them apart, but the Comcast DVR, (6412, series III), makes the Hughes DVR-80 unusable. I've got a CC tech coming out on Wed. I'm thinking too much signal on the cable. Anyone else having this?


I have the same moto about 4 feet away from HDTivo with no problems. My moto is on top the tv and hr10-250 is in a cabinet next to tv.


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## jquinn6 (Jan 18, 2005)

Thanks, anyone else? Comcast first refused to send anyone out saying that they cannot be in the same room. I'd really like for these to play well together since DTV has no good options for HDTV yet.


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## Batmanda (Mar 2, 2006)

fastep said:


> Please post your experience\opinions if you switch. Thanks.


So far, my new Moto 6412 is working fine! Since I've never had a Tivo, the Comcast menu and way you program shows is fine with me!

I had the technician give me a splitter and a small cable, as I sent the raw signal to my Sony SXRD and one to the Comcast DVR. This gives me the option of recording two programs and watching a third.

I'm pretty much recording everything in HD, and the quality has been very acceptable!

So far I'm happy!! I'll let you know how I'm doing in a few months!

Just a note to all those Tivo users that miss the peanut remote design.... I got a Harmony 676 programmable remote and this thing is fabulous! It controls 5 devices and my dimmer lights! It has a peanut design and really good feel in the hand. I highly recommend this remote for anyone with more than 2 devices!!


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

OK -- before my wee note -- just to reinforce Batmanda's experience. I got the Harmony 880 about a month ago and that sucker has more horsepower than did my first computer. I run my TV, DVD player, CD Jukebox, HR10-250 and 5.1 Receiver with all the appropriate combinations -- including a couple of custom soft keys I added for personal preference. The critter does everything I throw at it.

Now, this morning, I stopped by my local Comcast office just to see what questions could be answered, what details might nudge me the way to signing up when the Cablecard TiVo comes out.

So, a reasonably adequate CSR fields my geek questions and at least knew what I was asking about. BUT, he'd obviously never used a TiVo because his pitch to get their HD DVR now was that the TiVo would be more difficult to use.

Irrelevent because, of course, sports was the dealbreaker. A couple of channels weren't available; but, for a proper football [soccer] fan -- no Setanta Sports ended the discussion. I probably watch 15-20 matches/month not otherwise available. Setanta costs me $12/month -- less than a buck a match -- and on days like today, offering up Champions League goodies, can't live without it!


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Ed Campbell said:


> Champions League goodies, can't live without it!


As an aside, have you noticed that ESPN2 playing some of those. On the HD version its upconverted, but doesn't look too bad.


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

btwyx -- you must be happy as a clam. As I recall you're an Arsenal supporter!

The Sky stuff is broadcast 16x9 in UK/Europe. anyway, isn't it. A wee bit less work to upconvert.

And next season.....? I keep harassing Steven and Nick about whether or not we get HD on FSC. Same non-answer from the Setanta folks though they are as pro-HD as we all are.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Ed Campbell said:


> btwyx -- you must be happy as a clam. As I recall you're an Arsenal supporter!


You recall wrongly, like the last time you said that.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

jquinn6 said:


> To anyone who has both DTV and comcast HD, have you experienced interference from the Moto Comcast DVR causing the DTV DVR to pixilate. I have tried moving them apart, but the Comcast DVR, (6412, series III), makes the Hughes DVR-80 unusable. I've got a CC tech coming out on Wed. I'm thinking too much signal on the cable. Anyone else having this?


I have a 6412 III right next to a HR10-250. I see ocassional pixalation on the HR10-250, but nothing consistant and nothing I've ever associated with the 6412 III.


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