# The Sopranos - "The Blue Comet" OAD: 6-3-2007 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Wow!


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

I'm speechless.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

bdowell said:


> Wow!


+1!!!


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

The episode we've been waiting three years for!!


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

Holy smokes.

Whoever it was that called a few threads ago that Bobby's b-day present to Tony would make another appearance, step up and get credit.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

One question though, why wouldn't Tony et al just get out of NJ. Like head out on the road, maybe up north to Bobbys & Janices place. Somewhere where they wouldn't be easily found.

And why wouldn't they hide their cars better? Won't Phils crew know what they drive?


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

My only guess is that he wants to settle it once and for all, so they're sticking around. Where were they holed up? Was that Junior's old place?


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

SoupMan said:


> Where were they holed up? Was that Junior's old place?


Yes.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Unbelievable how badly his crew and the Sicilian "cousins" screwed up.

I can't wait until next week. Here's hoping we don't see any more of Melfi. :down:


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## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

snowjay said:


> One question though, why wouldn't Tony et al just get out of NJ. Like head out on the road, maybe up north to Bobbys & Janices place. Somewhere where they wouldn't be easily found.
> 
> And why wouldn't they hide their cars better? Won't Phils crew know what they drive?


Because that wouldn't be very exciting.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

The only thing was that the episode name gave away the scene of the hit on Bobby.

I pressed "Play" and saw "Blue Comet"....had no idea what that was...then when he was in the train store and was looking at a train called "The Blue Comet", I turned to my wife and said that Bobby was going to get clipped there. Took the surprise out of it a bit.

Great episode, though....probably the best of the season.

I wonder why Paulie wasn't on the hit list? I would think that he would be one that would have been picked to hit before Bobby since he has been with Tony so long.

The only thing I can think of is that Phil thinks that Paulie would work for him once Tony is gone.

Only one more week left. Can't wait until next Sunday!


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

If I'm ever on the run, I'd be half way to North Dakota right now, with a pocket full of cash and holed up for 3 months. But they probably have to consider their standing with all the people they made money from when they come out of this. They can't lose respect and keep doing business as usual.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Odds Bodkins said:


> The episode we've been waiting three years for!!


 :up:


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## mikellanes (Dec 6, 2002)

That was great, too bad about Sil he was one of my favorites..

How many episodes are left?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

mikellanes said:


> That was great, too bad about Sil he was one of my favorites..
> 
> How many episodes are left?


1


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## Victory Vegas (Oct 3, 2005)

mikellanes said:


> That was great, too bad about Sil he was one of my favorites..
> 
> How many episodes are left?


Just ONE


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

unixadm said:


> The only thing was that the episode name gave away the scene of the hit on Bobby.
> 
> I pressed "Play" and saw "Blue Comet"....had no idea what that was...then when he was in the train store and was looking at a train called "The Blue Comet", I turned to my wife and said that Bobby was going to get clipped there. Took the surprise out of it a bit.


Aw, come on, really ? You didn't see it when Bobby walked away from the ringing cell phone ?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I have to say that David Chase and company aren't taking the easy way out. They seem to be giving us the blood bath we expected and which many of us seemed to have wanted.

Phil running off after setting the wheels in motion is great. Apparently he's not the stupid moron some would have thought him to be. Thus far it means we aren't getting the 'War of the Roses' ending. We could wind up with the 'Prizzi's Honor' ending still, but we'll have to see about that.

Why Tony didn't have things set up to take out more of Phil's crew had me wondering just what he expects to happen if he is successful in getting Phil. Phil's flunkies would likely take over the power vacuum, unless Little Carmine somehow was able to take over (and that doesn't seem that likely).

In Phil's case, he didn't have Paulie Walnuts figured in the list of people getting taken down, but I think that may have to do more with Paulie's earlier overture to Johnny Sac. Phil probably figured that he'd need someone that knew the operation and could help transition over the operation.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Oh, on the where to run to, why not up to Johnny Cakes land? It's not like anyone found Vito that easily


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I think someone also made the call last week about rounding up the cousins from Italy.

I remembered the scene from the previews last week with the guy raising the gun to fire at the guy they thought was Phil. I thought it was really unusual that they'd show us someone we didn't recognize all alone in a scene like that - was he supposed to look familiar?


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Liked the Godfather homage when Melfi closed the door for the final time.


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## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

Is it odd that all I can think about is Silvio reading "How To Clean Practically Anything?"


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

bdowell said:


> Phil running off after setting the wheels in motion is great. Apparently he's not the stupid moron some would have thought him to be. Thus far it means we aren't getting the 'War of the Roses' ending. We could wind up with the 'Prizzi's Honor' ending still, but we'll have to see about that.


I was thinking more along the lines of the 'Scarface' ending.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of the 'Scarface' ending.


Yes, with Tony and his little friend.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

mattpol said:


> Is it odd that all I can think about is Silvio reading "How To Clean Practically Anything?"


I liked how he was cleaning his shoes tonight.


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

Damit Sil was my fav. Sorry to see him go. Was I the only one nervous watching this? I can't remember watching a show that made me this nervous.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

great episode, can't wait for the finale...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Tivortex said:


> Aw, come on, really ? You didn't see it when Bobby walked away from the ringing cell phone ?


which happened right after Tony told Sil to call everyone and tell them to change their routines...

AJ getting roughed-up was the most fun :up: 

what's Melphi up to? 300? 400 pounds?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jschuur said:


> If I'm ever on the run, I'd be half way to North Dakota right now, with a pocket full of cash and holed up for 3 months. But they probably have to consider their standing with all the people they made money from when they come out of this. They can't lose respect and keep doing business as usual.


More to the point, hiding is only half the battle--they also have to kill the other guy. And they can't do that from North Dakota, which is probably why Phil is still nearby--that is, within reach.


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## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

Melfi getting upset with her colleagues was interesting.

Sil if you are going on the run wouldn't you keep your pistol with you.

So what happens to all of the paperwork that Sil had with him. 

One of Phil's crew asked about hitting Paulie Walnuts and the response was, no only management.

So who is the snitch in Phil's crew, he mentioned the hits on Tony in front of 2 others?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

AJ has turned into quite the whining little emo boy. Tony must be so proud.

Next week should be fun, alot to cover in 65 minutes.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Langree said:


> AJ has turned into quite the whining little emo boy. Tony must be so proud.
> 
> Next week should be fun, alot to cover in 65 minutes.


I padded mine by 15 minutes just to be sure...I assume there will be a lot of crap at the start (interviews with actors and producers)...so I doubt we're getting 65 minutes of show...


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

Langree said:


> AJ has turned into quite the whining little emo boy. Tony must be so proud.


I kept thinking (hoping?), even though there was no good reason to think this way, that AJ would eventually man up if crunch time ever hit. Instead, he ends up snivelling on the closet floor when his dad needed him.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I padded mine by 15 minutes just to be sure...I assume there will be a lot of crap at the start (interviews with actors and producers)...so I doubt we're getting 65 minutes of show...


The series finale for Rome was something like 1:15, and season finales for shows like The Sopranos and Deadwood have routinely gone that long. With Entourage done for the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see an extra long episode.

The one problem I had with this episode was that it was too telegraphed. As soon as the phone rang you knew Bobby was dead. As soon as you saw the shots of Sil getting into the car, you knew he was doomed. Give me some shock.

Great episode though.


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## Btrman (Apr 14, 2003)

It seemed after Paulie was moaning about barely survivng the Columbo wars, he slinked away. I thought they were implying he went to tip off Phil????


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

serumgard said:


> The series finale for Rome was something like 1:15, and season finales for shows like The Sopranos and Deadwood have routinely gone that long. With Entourage done for the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see an extra long episode.


isn't the series' premiere of John from Cincinnati right after the Sopranos? I bet that explains the 65 minutes, to get people to stay beyond the hour...


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> isn't the series' premiere of John from Cincinnati right after the Sopranos? I bet that explains the 65 minutes, to get people to stay beyond the hour...


Not sure. Haven't looked at the guide, so I don't know about the 65 minutes. I thought John from Cincinnati was starting after the premiere of Entourage on June 17, so I may be wrong.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

serumgard said:


> Not sure. Haven't looked at the guide, so I don't know about the 65 minutes. I thought John from Cincinnati was starting after the premiere of Entourage on June 17, so I may be wrong.


They ran an ad last night saying it premiered immediatly following the Sopranos next week.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Langree said:


> They ran an ad last night saying it premiered immediatly following the Sopranos next week.


Well, shows you what I know.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Btrman said:


> It seemed after Paulie was moaning about barely survivng the Columbo wars, he slinked away. I thought they were implying he went to tip off Phil????


That's what my wife thinks. I think Paulie loves Tony too much to do such a thing, though (despite Paulie's reachout to Phil from jail a few years ago. Although, I think the reachout was one thing that influenced Phil to spare Paulie.)

I was glad to see weenie, sniveling, self-centered AJ finally got Tony's foot up his ass. :up: :up: :up:

I felt both sympathy and shodenfreud for Melfi at the dinner. She was professionally embarrassed in front of her colleagues. By the hostile, unprofessional way she handled the split, I think she was mad and embarrassed with herself for having allowed herself to be taken in for so long, and, as Elliot said at the dinner table, she was taken in by the rescue fantasy where she thought she could rescue Tony. Poor Melfi. Tony won. She is yet another wreck in Tony's wake. (Loved how Chase spelled it out in black and white for her.  )


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

TiVo'Brien said:


> That's what my wife thinks. I think Paulie loves Tony too much to do such a thing, though (despite Paulie's reachout to Phil from jail a few years ago. Although, I think the reachout was one thing that influenced Phil to spare Paulie.)


This just shows that Phil is pretty shrewd...he correctly identified the chain of command and the three on top...


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

Makes you wonder if Chrissy was still alive, would he have made the cut on Phil's hit list. Probably yes, moreso because of his relation to Tony and than his rank.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

What surprised me the most was the dinner of shrinks. Melfi's shrink broke her confidence, and told the table things that should have remained Dr/Client privledge. That's a big no-no, but the table seemed fine with it, and nobody from the table defended Melfi for trying to help another human being: they were all sold on this "study" (and lets face it: psychiatric studies can be a dime a dozen.) So, because she's humiliated by her friends, she fires Tony. I think that whole scene was out of character.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't think is was just the humiliation by her friends...the dinner conversation prompted her to finally read that paper...and THAT is what convinced her...


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

It was odd (for the show) how her shrink has been touting this one particular study. Almost like it was rammed down the viewers' throats as a plot device to close the Melfi storyline. 

I don't know since I'm not a shrink, but maybe one well-written study by somebody respected is treated like gospel?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I don't think is was just the humiliation by her friends...the dinner conversation prompted her to finally read that paper...and THAT is what convinced her...


And let's face it, she's always been profoundly ambivalent about treating Tony. I can see where having a nice, formal, peer-reviewed excuse to drop him would push her over the edge.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Great episode. 
The only thing I found odd was the way the text of the psycho study was shown. Extreme closeups, mixed shots, and it seemed to be taking forever. Seemed very amateurish and exaggerated.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

_'Check out the stems on Blondie!'_

After the Fed's comment about how the Mob watched out over the Brooklyn Navy Yard during WWII did anyone else wonder if a 'friend of ours' dropped a dime on the JFK pipeline plotters??


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

FlugPoP said:


> Damit Sil was my fav. Sorry to see him go. Was I the only one nervous watching this? I can't remember watching a show that made me this nervous.


Are we sure he's gone?? Didn't they leave it that he's in the hospital and they don't THINK he'll recover?


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Btrman said:


> It seemed after Paulie was moaning about barely survivng the Columbo wars, he slinked away. I thought they were implying he went to tip off Phil????


That's the direction I thought they were taking with it. Paulie has always had problems with how Tony ran things, I think he is playing both sides. I think Paulie is under the impression that he will be in charge of NJ when the management is gone.


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Are we sure he's gone?? Didn't they leave it that he's in the hospital and they don't THINK he'll recover?


Yes that's true...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Do we know who informed the FBI about Phil's planned hit on Tony? When the guy was opening the door to the beauty salon, I thought at first that he was going to meet with FBI guys, since that scene was shortly after the one with Tony and the FBI agent and since Phil cleared the room before discussing it, there seemed to be only those 3 guys who knew about it. Obviously that number grew by the time they had the meeting, so it could just be a totally peripheral character.


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## Paul Wozniak (Jun 5, 2006)

What was up with all the shots of white shoes?


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Can't wait for next Sunday!


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Both dinner scenes were uncomfortable. 

When T. and Carm were at Vesuvio's, Artie and his wife were really twisting the knife!


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

jeff125va said:


> Do we know who informed the FBI about Phil's planned hit on Tony? When the guy was opening the door to the beauty salon, I thought at first that he was going to meet with FBI guys, since that scene was shortly after the one with Tony and the FBI agent and since Phil cleared the room before discussing it, there seemed to be only those 3 guys who knew about it. Obviously that number grew by the time they had the meeting, so it could just be a totally peripheral character.


FBI eavesdropping maybe?


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## AggieKJ (Apr 20, 2005)

Here's how it will end:



Phil will capture Tony and take him to an old abandoned lumber operation. Once there, he will tie Tony onto one of the logs and turn the machine on so that it slooooowly begins pulling the log down the conveyor belt towards a huge saw.

While Phil is waiting for Tony to be pulled into the saw, he will casually reveal all of his mob secrets and business dealings to Tony, including offshore bank account numbers, names and phone numbers of associates, etc.

Then, just as Tony gets to the saw and is about to be killed, SILVIO breaks through the door still wearing his hospital gown and shoots Phil and all his goons.

Sil then races to the machine and turns it off just as a hair on Tonys head is shaved off by the saw.

He unties Tony, they high-five, and then run out to take over NY.

The final image of the show is of Sil's ass hanging out of the hospital gown as they leave.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Tony will end up ratting the entire NYC/NJ mobs in return for witness protection for himself and his family. They will end their days in the northwoods.

You heard it here.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Jon J said:


> Tony will end up ratting the entire NYC/NJ mobs in return for witness protection for himself and his family. They will end their days in the northwoods.
> 
> You heard it here.


I've been waiting to see where all that 1st episode foreshadowing staring across the lake and up into the hills and forest was going to lead to. Know I know!


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> Both dinner scenes were uncomfortable.
> 
> When T. and Carm were at Vesuvio's, Artie and his wife were really twisting the knife!


I loved Carmela's excuses as to why Meadow is better off not becoming a doctor -- "What with AIDS and malpractice, law is such a better choice for her."


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

jschuur said:


> If I'm ever on the run, I'd be half way to North Dakota right now, with a pocket full of cash and holed up for 3 months. But they probably have to consider their standing with all the people they made money from when they come out of this. They can't lose respect and keep doing business as usual.


Oh, Oh, WHAT DID YOU DO??


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Tivortex said:


> Aw, come on, really ? You didn't see it when Bobby walked away from the ringing cell phone ?


my thought on that subject exactly


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Jon J said:


> Tony will end up ratting the entire NYC/NJ mobs in return for witness protection for himself and his family. They will end their days in the northwoods.
> 
> You heard it here.


...and his new name will be the name he had when he was in the coma.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Great epsiode...a few things:

The dinner scene with Melfi: It threw me how totally unprofessional it was for Elliot to "out" the identity of her patient. After thinking it over, it seems to me the dinner was almost like an intervention - staged by Elliot to get Melfi to finally see the light and dump Tony.

The Hit on Bobby: Yes, it was certainly telegraphed...from the ringing phone, to the "Blue Comet"...but to me that made it even more tense, rather than ruin it. I think it was masterfully done, the way they showed the train figures and all...riveting scene!

Silvio: I think the fact that he's not dead yet leaves the setup for the big emotional farewell between Tony and Sil.

My take: Tony guns down Phil, and ends up consolidating power and running both the NY and NJ families...but it's a hollow victory, because he's all alone at the top, and can't trust anyone.

Or...alternatively (the ending I'd prefer) - we see Tony on the porch at the big house...finally going into the "Finnerty" family reunion.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

snowjay said:


> FBI eavesdropping maybe?


Maybe, but I thought the agent specifically referred to an informant. I could be misremembering though.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

I just want to see Phil's associate 'Butchy' (the guy who said Phil wasn't available last week in his house) get it....he annoy's me!!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Great episode. Sorry to see Bobby get hit. I always felt he was an Accidental Mobster.

+1 on the Melfi scenes (wow has she put on some manicot'). Not sure why they spent so much time on it, unless it will have some play next week. It's not like it needed closure; whatever happens to the family, happens. And the slo-mo of the paper was bor-ing. Just do it, Melfi. I also thought she handled the firing of Tony in a less than professional manner. Especially considering his temper. Why p*ss him off? She couldn't come up with a non-confrontational excuse for dropping him? And VERY unprofessional to discuss a patient in front of others. . Makes you wanna wring Bogdonavich.

Several posts above someone mentioned how the Italian cousins screwed up. I thought it was obvious Phil setup the fake, just to get Tony to bite. The cuz's were innocent bystanders in the switcharoony.

Phil has a plan. We may not like it, but he knows what he's doing. Tony is floundering. Even if he whacked Phil, I didn't get the feeling he had step two ready. And now he is really lost. Doesn't look good for next week.

Scenarios:
1) Tony kills himself to stop the bloodshed, and save the family any more grief.
2) Tony gets whacked.
3) Sawmill scene.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I padded mine by 15 minutes just to be sure...I assume there will be a lot of crap at the start (interviews with actors and producers)...so I doubt we're getting 65 minutes of show...


No need to pad. Just record whatever follows the Sopranos. No matter how much it may run over, you're covered. And if what follows is good, you're a step ahead!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I still think Adriana will come back to life a'la Cleaver and take them all out.


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

With what's taken place so far and only one ep left, I can't see this ending any other believable way than with Tony's death.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

SoupMan said:


> With what's taken place so far and only one ep left, I can't see this ending any other believable way than Tony's death.


I agree, but it's almost just as likely that he would ride into the sunset with a smirk on his face, savoring his victory...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

'Flatbush Bikini Waxing' made my wife laugh!


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Before last night, I thought 

(a) Tony would meet his end at the hands of one of the women in his life (Carmela or Janice)

or

(b) We would come full circle. Final scene is Tony watching the ducks in his pool -- only now he's all alone in the house, because Carmela has left him, Meadow has gone off to grad school, and AJ is in an institution.

(a) could still happen, particularly if Janice flips out and blames Tony for Bobby's death.
(b) doesn't look so good. I can't see a reasonable outcome that leaves Tony alive and in his mansion in Jersey.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I'm really not liking Carmela lately. "Our happy little boy", then turning on Tony, the Meadow "its better she's a lawyer.." 

But I'll chalk that up to her good acting to make me want to take a swing at her! She does do a good job with making that character so believable, so hypocritical, and so dispicable!


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Marco said:


> Before last night, I thought
> 
> (a) Tony would meet his end at the hands of one of the women in his life (Carmela or Janice)
> 
> ...


(b) can't happen because Tony drained his pool.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Gotta add my WOW in.

I think it'll end thusly:

Breakdown on the floor of the closet was just what the doctor ordered for young Anthony.
He'll rise from the ashes, join forces with Auntie Janice (a woman very scorned), borrow Tony's birthday present, and open a can of whoop-azz on Phil and his crew.

He'll then relax on the back patio with his dad, who now realizes Anthony is the heir apparent,
ducks will land in the pool, a bear will wander through the background, slow fade.


phox


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## minorthr (Nov 24, 2001)

Jon J said:


> Tony will end up ratting the entire NYC/NJ mobs in return for witness protection for himself and his family. They will end their days in the northwoods.
> 
> You heard it here.


This is pretty much how I see it happening. Except I think he does it after his whole family is killed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

phox_mulder said:


> Breakdown on the floor of the closet was just what the doctor ordered for young Anthony.
> He'll rise from the ashes, join forces with Auntie Janice (a woman very scorned), borrow Tony's birthday present, and open a can of whoop-azz on Phil and his crew.


I suddenly am having a flashback to Chloe on 24 with the machine gun...


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Never happen, A.J. is a complete and total waste of DNA. I'd much sooner rely on *Meadow*'s skills with an Uzi.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Now see, with all of this speculation, I think you all are missing the obvious end -- Tony gets chased into the woods, the Pine Barrens, where he meets up with the Russian ex-special forces who we haven't seen in years, and the two of them go Rambo all over Phil's crew :up:


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> phox_mulder said:
> 
> 
> > Breakdown on the floor of the closet was just what the doctor ordered for young Anthony.
> ...


Nah, that would require Meadow, rather than Janice.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Jon J said:


> Tony will end up ratting the entire NYC/NJ mobs in return for witness protection for himself and his family. They will end their days in the northwoods.
> 
> You heard it here.


Very possible. The recent exchanges between him and the FBI could be setting that up. And he could justify it a little more now that his life's _already_ in danger. If there's no way he can avoid the inevitable loss of power, then he can pretty easily rationalize ratting them out in order to save his life.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Was Tony's excuse to Janice about draining the pool because it was expensive to heat _supposed_ to be that lame? Would anyone in a similar climate actually close their pool and still continue to heat it?


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

jeff125va said:


> Very possible. The recent exchanges between him and the FBI could be setting that up. And he could justify it a little more now that his life's _already_ in danger. If there's no way he can avoid the inevitable loss of power, then he can pretty easily rationalize ratting them out in order to save his life.


I almost think that FBI guy likes Tony and will do his best (anything?) to help him.


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## Frank_M (Sep 9, 2001)

I think that, whatever happens to Tony, the story will end with Janice in control of NJ. I could even see her giving up Tony's location to Phil in exchange for a seat at the table.

I think that's been coming for a long time.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Several posts above someone mentioned how the Italian cousins screwed up. I thought it was obvious Phil setup the fake, just to get Tony to bite. The cuz's were innocent bystanders in the switcharoony.


Yeah, that's how I took it too. At first, we think that the cousins screwed up because Phil wasn't there. But how would they screw up? They had to ID Phil, follow him in his car, and go to wherever that house was. I think that was Phil, he knew he was being followed, and he slipped out the back.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Jon J said:


> Tony will end up ratting the entire NYC/NJ mobs in return for witness protection for himself and his family. They will end their days in the northwoods.
> 
> You heard it here.


I hate to say it but I agree with you. Tony has allways been taking one for the team dealing with the problems in his own crew (offing his cousin & christopher) while at the same time trying to take the crap from NY. He might just say WTF look where being Mr. Nice Guy got me? Either that or warm up the assult rilfe again 

PS: That was me who predicted how handy that would come in,lol


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Was Tony's excuse to Janice about draining the pool because it was expensive to heat _supposed_ to be that lame? Would anyone in a similar climate actually close their pool and still continue to heat it?


I'm a few short miles from where Tony supposedly lives and I believe he was referring to the heating costs 'during' the pool season.

As an aside, they filmed a crucial scene (or so I was told) in the finale at a gas station very close to where I live. You'll see a Raceway gas station with a Barnes & Noble and a Chevy's and Wendy's in the background next Sunday. They even showed part of the scene in the preview when Phil was getting out of an SUV.....


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Very possible. The recent exchanges between him and the FBI could be setting that up. And he could justify it a little more now that his life's _already_ in danger. If there's no way he can avoid the inevitable loss of power, then he can pretty easily rationalize ratting them out in order to save his life.


we already got the payoff for the recent exchanges with the FBI...this was all done to setup why the FBI guy told Tony that he's about to get whacked...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Did Phil complain that Tony's crew didn't employ a 'Sorting Gun(?)' as part of their rituals?


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Sword and gun, I thought.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Sil, where the hell were you? Krista fell off her shoes....

re: the melfi dinner and pt confidentiality... i bet many professionals with client confidentiality issues talk to fellow professionals/peers about patients/clients they may be seeing. It's kind of an understood transfer of confidentiality. It depends on how close a friend the person is you are revealing info. it's technically not ethical, but it happens.

the bigger offense is the fact that the dude was melfi's therapist, and he divulged information about her, in front of her, to other people. That's outright rude. it's one thing to do it behind her back. It's a whole other thing to do it in her face!


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> Did Phil complain that Tony's crew didn't employ a 'Sorting Gun(?)' as part of their rituals?


I think that was "sword and gun".


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

Great episode for sure.

Random observations:

How ironic that Phil wants to take over NJ because, amongst other things, he thinks the NJ family is a bunch of idiots, then they screw up a hit on Phil himself!

Anybody else slightly disturbed that Phil's gumarr (or girlfriend or whatever) is having sex with a guy who looks so much like her father? Yuck.

OTOH I hate myself a little for thinking exactly what Paulie was thinking when he looked at AJ and the blonde! If she's over 18 strike that 'hate myself' part.

Did the workers and patrons of the Bing really come out into the parking lot to watch a gun battle between a bunch of mobsters? How many people come running (some topless) when they hear gunfire?

Is it just me or did they make it seem like someone was walking toward the door of the room Tony is in right before they rolled the credits? Had a horror-movie type of effect.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Anubys said:


> we already got the payoff for the recent exchanges with the FBI...this was all done to setup why the FBI guy told Tony that he's about to get whacked...


Right, I'm just thinking maybe all of that could be setting up Tony ratting out NY. But hopefully they'll come up with something better than what I can predict.


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## bobsbizzy (Jun 20, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> 'Flatbush Bikini Waxing' made my wife laugh!


+1


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

RangersRBack said:



> Anybody else slightly disturbed that Phil's gumarr (or girlfriend or whatever) is having sex with a guy who looks so much like her father? Yuck.


they just hit the wrong house...a guy who looked like Phil had the misfortune of coming home at the wrong time...the girl was not Phil's mistress...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> they just hit the wrong house...a guy who looked like Phil had the misfortune of coming home at the wrong time...the girl was not Phil's mistress...


I think the girl WAS Phil's mistress, which is why they were staking out the house. And her father had the extreme misfortune of having a daughter with a Daddy complex! 

So it wasn't any stroke of genius on Phil's part; he just got lucky. And the Italians didn't completely botch the job; they wacked somebody who looked like the right guy at the right place. Even Tony was philosophical about it.


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

RangersRBack said:


> Great episode for sure.
> 
> Random observations:
> 
> ...


Also, was that a life-size cutout or something of Silvio in Uncle Junior's house? Any idea where that comes from?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I didn't like this episode that much because it felt like tony's crew was implausibly stupid. They might as well have been scantily clad women in a B slasher flick. Bobby didn't know he was in danger so his scene was ok. But the scene with sil just seemed goofy to me. I don't know if they were going for a sort of unforgiven meets mel brooks feel or what, but it seemed too staged and too dishonest to me. I kept thinking that the bada bing crew that was just standing by watching was going to turn into a fast forward scene with everyone running around madly and some goofy music playing.

Also the scene with melfi at the dinner did not make sense to me either. He should have his license revoked for revealing that information.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

5thcrewman said:


> Did Phil complain that Tony's crew didn't employ a 'Sorting Gun(?)' as part of their rituals?


Sword and Gun, I believe.

The mafia make a very big ritual of becoming a member of the family. The person entering the family is supposed to cut their hand with the sword and shed blood for the family. I remember seeing Christopher do this a few seasons ago when he became "made"....so I don't know why Phil said that they didn't have the Sword and Gun.....I guess they didn't do it recently, though (Bobby?)



TAsunder said:


> But the scene with sil just seemed goofy to me. I don't know if they were going for a sort of unforgiven meets mel brooks feel or what, but it seemed too staged and too dishonest to me.


My take on the Sil hit was that although he was packing up at the Bing and leaving, I don't think he expected to be hit as he left. I think that he either thought that it was a false alarm and they were erring on the side of caution.....or more likely, that they were a step AHEAD of Phil's crew and that he wasn't in any immediate danger....thus why he had his gun not easily accesible when they got in the car.


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

Isn't one of Tony's guys an FBI informant? They showed it awhile back and never came back to it. I think it was the guy that was in the car with Sil when he got shot. Is that Patsy?

Of course, I could be 100% mistaken.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

5thcrewman said:


> Did Phil complain that Tony's crew didn't employ a 'Sorting Gun(?)' as part of their rituals?


"sword and gun" I believe is what was said.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Anyone else notice that in the Bada Bing when Sil and Paulie read the newspaper and find out who the Italians hit that the unrelated headline on the left says New Jersey "Idiots"?


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## subslug (Nov 16, 2005)

Whatever the ending turns out to be, we can only hope that AJ somehow ends up in the middle of the gunfire.
It would be a shame to have killed off as many good characters as the Sopranos has and leave him alive.

Great episode though....too bad the 3 or 4 previous ones have been so marginal.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

TomK said:


> (b) can't happen because Tony drained his pool.


"Hey mom, I can't find my belt."


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

RangersRBack said:


> Also, was that a life-size cutout or something of Silvio in Uncle Junior's house? Any idea where that comes from?


I just watched that again and every shot of it is blurry, so while it looks like Sil - it could be anyone. Last night, I thought it was from Cleaver - but that wouldn't make much sense either.


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Warning: The following is a sick and twisted thought I had last night. I'm not proud of it, but it's the way I felt....

I was hoping that Melfi would break up with Tony and he would pull out his gun and put a bullet in her head.

Hey, I don't normally think like this but over the years, and more specifically the last few episodes, she has been destroying this show for me.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> re: the melfi dinner and pt confidentiality... i bet many professionals with client confidentiality issues talk to fellow professionals/peers about patients/clients they may be seeing. It's kind of an understood transfer of confidentiality. It depends on how close a friend the person is you are revealing info. it's technically not ethical, but it happens.


Speaking as a professional, I just don't think you're right. Professionals can lose their licenses to practice over stuff like this, and just wouldn't blab like that in a group of people who all understand that it is against the ethics of the profession. For one thing, most professional organizations would *require* that the other professionals report the unethical behavior.

One might talk anonymously about a client's situation with a group, or one might reveal confidences as part of consulting with a colleague about how to deal with a situation/client (and thereby "transfer" the confidentiality obligations, as you put it) and perhaps one might even reveal some confidences when talking with just one close friend, but one would never violate their professional obligations in front of a roomful of other professionals in the same business who understand that you're doing something highly unethical.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

I am truly stunned at da number of youse people dat tink Tony might go into a witness protection program.

The guy hasn't showed one iota of an inkling of being the kind of guy that would do that. Everyone who has ever even smelled of being a rat (e.g., Adriana, Big *****) or breached mafia protocol (Tony Blundetto, Jackie Aprile, Jr.), Tony has had summarily whacked without a hint of regret.

They've never once even shown him musing over going into WPP - surely there would have been at least one scene where Tony at least alludes to the idea that "Geez, I should just take those a-holes from New York down and just hightail it to the beach in Oregon." But no, never.

If it does happen, it'll be the single most disappointing and "false" ending to a series in television history.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

Bananfish said:


> I am truly stunned at da number of youse people dat tink Tony might go into a witness protection program.
> 
> The guy hasn't showed one iota of an inkling of being the kind of guy that would do that. Everyone who has ever even smelled of being a rat (e.g., Adriana, Big *****) or breached mafia protocol (Tony Blundetto, Jackie Aprile, Jr.), Tony has had summarily whacked without a hint of regret.
> 
> ...


Although I don't think that Chase would end it with Tony going into the WPP, and I truely believe that Tony will die next week, I wouldn't see him going into the WPP as a "false" ending.

Tony has become disillusioned in his mob family over the past couple of years. He has lost all of his top guys....the only one left is Paulie, who has dropped as an earner and whom he contemplated whacking very recently.

If he survives, what does he have left? There really won't be much of a business to run....and if he decides that Carmella, AJ and Meadow deserve better than to keep running, I could see him deciding on the WPP to keep his real family safe. I don't think that this would be out of character.....

But, again, I can't really see this happening.....I see more of a blood bath for the finale with Paulie, Tony and a couple of lower ranked family members up against Phil and his crew.......with both families being taken out.

I'd rather see a "live by the gun, die by the gun" type of ending


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'm with the b-fish-meister. Witness Protection would be coming so far out of left field, it would be coming from the stands. And I just don't think these people (Chase & Co.) would cheat that badly.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Anubys said:


> they just hit the wrong house...a guy who looked like Phil had the misfortune of coming home at the wrong time...the girl was not Phil's mistress...


The girl was Phil's housekeeper Yaryna. I suppose he could be banging her, making her his mistress.....but, the Italian hit guys did not go to the wrong house. They just hit the wrong dude. The guy was Yaryna's daddy. Why he was there, dunno.

Whether or not Phil set it up as a decoy, I don't think we know yet.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Bananfish said:


> Speaking as a professional, I just don't think you're right. Professionals can lose their licenses to practice over stuff like this, and just wouldn't blab like that in a group of people who all understand that it is against the ethics of the profession. For one thing, most professional organizations would *require* that the other professionals report the unethical behavior.
> 
> One might talk anonymously about a client's situation with a group, or one might reveal confidences as part of consulting with a colleague about how to deal with a situation/client (and thereby "transfer" the confidentiality obligations, as you put it) and perhaps one might even reveal some confidences when talking with just one close friend, but one would never violate their professional obligations in front of a roomful of other professionals in the same business who understand that you're doing something highly unethical.


well, first off, while i agree with you in principal, to group all professionals as ethical is a mistake.

i'm just saying, depending on the social situation, it's conceivable that could happen. if they all went to med school together, and have known each other for 20 years, they might have a different relationship, where they talk more openly about their practice. to say one would NEVER violate something ethical is naive. and besides, ethics may be in the eye of the beholder.

speaking as a professional, that is. not that i am anything but ethical....


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

rimler said:


> The girl was Phil's housekeeper Yaryna. I suppose he could be banging her, making her his mistress.....but, the Italian hit guys did not go to the wrong house. They just hit the wrong dude. The guy was Yaryna's daddy. Why he was there, dunno.
> 
> Whether or not Phil set it up as a decoy, I don't think we know yet.


In the first half of this season, wasn't there a scene inside Phil's house where those two exchanged glances? I think I remember that happening -- in the kitchen I think. It was in one of those episodes where Phil was always whining to his wife about Vito's homosexuality.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> well, first off, while i agree with you in principal, to group all professionals as ethical is a mistake.
> 
> i'm just saying, depending on the social situation, it's conceivable that could happen. if they all went to med school together, and have known each other for 20 years, they might have a different relationship, where they talk more openly about their practice. to say one would NEVER violate something ethical is naive. and besides, ethics may be in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> speaking as a professional, that is. not that i am anything but ethical....


I don't think we're far apart in our thinking. I wouldn't say it's impossible for it to happen - there are undoubtedly individuals who could do such a thing in a social situation with old friends, especially with the proper amount of "lubrication." Somehow though, Peter Bogdanovich's character, who walks around with a stick up his arse as far as I'm concerned, doesn't seem like the type to me.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

Bananfish said:


> I don't think we're far apart in our thinking. I wouldn't say it's impossible for it to happen - there are undoubtedly individuals who could do such a thing in a social situation with old friends, especially with the proper amount of "lubrication." Somehow though, Peter Bogdanovich's character, who walks around with a stick up his arse as far as I'm concerned, doesn't seem like the type to me.


My big issue is that Peter Bogdanovich's character is the therapist for Melfi.......so he broke a HUGE client/patient confidentiality between him and Melfi by saying anything. It would be totatally different, and maybe even acceptable if it was Melfi who had some issues with treating Tony and brought it up at the table of good friends who were also collegues in her profession. Yes, she would have broke a confidentiality between her and Tony, but it would be between her and other doctors and she would be seeking other doctor's opinions.

What Peter Bogdanovich's character did was totally unethical and wrong. That would be no different than Melfi telling Carmella what Tony talks about when they are in a session.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I doubt it's witness protection, because you'd think that he'd have to face doing major jail time to agree to it, and that's too much to happen in an hour. Maybe, it's possible that he thinks he can't be Tony Soprano anymore because he'll always be a target, but I kinda doubt it.

Plus it's 2007. Can a well known east coast mobster even get away with witness protection without some major plastic surgery? Didn't Sammy The Bull have plastic surgery, and that's pre-internet.

-smak-


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

ok, since this is not about something that happened in this ep, I'm going to put it in a spoiler just to be safe (but I don't think it's a spoiler)...



Spoiler



I heard on the radio that this ep is how Chase wanted the series/season to end. The HBO suits took one look at his ending and told him "no way", that he had to write one more ep that resolves things.

So, if Chase started 100 years ago (or so it seems!) with an ending in mind, this was it...


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## harrinpj (Oct 29, 2004)

I have a question for you guys.

One of my coworkers thinks that Coco (the guy that Tony had his "alteration" with in the restaurant) was one of the people in the car that drove up to shoot Sil. I went back and watched the episode again last night and I didn't recognize him in the car at all. Can someone better at recognizing faces please tell me if that was him or not?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Phil always seems to be one or two steps ahead of Tony, and has been waiting to take the opportunity to take him out since his brother was knocked off. If Tony really wanted to hide from him they wouldn't have parked Cadillacs so close to Juniors house, dead give away.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

harrinpj said:


> I have a question for you guys.
> 
> One of my coworkers thinks that Coco (the guy that Tony had his "alteration" with in the restaurant) was one of the people in the car that drove up to shoot Sil. I went back and watched the episode again last night and I didn't recognize him in the car at all. Can someone better at recognizing faces please tell me if that was him or not?


those guys were young...no way he was one of them...

besides, Coco should still be in a hospital...


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

Anubys said:


> ok, since this is not about something that happened in this ep, I'm going to put it in a spoiler just to be safe (but I don't think it's a spoiler)...





Spoiler



Oh, no. Please don't let that spoiler be true.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

smak said:


> I doubt it's witness protection, because you'd think that he'd have to face doing major jail time to agree to it, and that's too much to happen in an hour. Maybe, it's possible that he thinks he can't be Tony Soprano anymore because he'll always be a target, but I kinda doubt it.
> 
> Plus it's 2007. Can a well known east coast mobster even get away with witness protection without some major plastic surgery? Didn't Sammy The Bull have plastic surgery, and that's pre-internet.
> 
> -smak-


Well, your second point is very good, Tony may be a bit too high profile to hide in plain sight. But as far as having to be facing major jail time, at this point he's facing far worse: death. If the NY mob is hell bent on wiping him out, I don't think it would be far-fetched or out of character for him to rat them out and go into the WPP. He wouldn't exactly be turning on _his own_ family (the NJ mafia), he'd be turning against a rival group that is out to kill him. I don't see any inherent disloyalty there.

What I'd love to see, if the story goes anywhere along these lines, is Tony contemplating such an option, but then instead taking out Phil and his leadership and getting someone friendly to him like Little Carmine to take over as NY boss. We've been seeing just enough of him this season for an option like that to be a good possibility.


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

super dave said:


> Phil always seems to be one or two steps ahead of Tony, and has been waiting to take the opportunity to take him out since his brother was knocked off. *If Tony really wanted to hide from him they wouldn't have parked Cadillacs so close to Juniors house, dead give away*.


That's what I told my husband last night .... If you are hiding... why park your car right in front of the house ???

My thoughts... I think that Paulie is blabbing things to Phil, secretly. I think that Paulie has joined up with Phil. I think the ending will be Paulie and Tony - going up against one of Phil's guys - and Phil, and then, Paulie will turn against Tony. Just, my thoughts. At first, I thought that Tony would end up in WPP, but now, the more I watch this show, I think it's going to be Paulie and Phil, that get to Tony.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I know it's tv, but... I don't think one mob boss can just decide all willy-nilly to take out another mob boss. Isn't there a council that decides these things? There's too much business and and too many interconnected relationships for that to happen. Plus, Phil's been boss for what, a month and a half? He doesn't have enough juice yet to be sanctioned to pull off a major coup. I remember when the Philadelphia mob was wracked by power struggles. They had to get the go ahead from New York to whack the boss.

One thing that always bothered me that doesn't matter any more: How was Sil able to be in charge of the Bing? It's not like his association with the Soprano mob was hidden. The Bing was a mob hideout. How could someone with Silvio's mob connections get a liquor license?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

SoupMan said:


> Oh, no. Please don't let that spoiler be true.


That actually might have been good--challenging, but good.

Bear in mind, if they had done it that way, they would have done it differently.


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

Whoops! I read it wrong. I thought Anuybys was referring to the upcoming episode not last weeks.


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## minorthr (Nov 24, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> One thing that always bothered me that doesn't matter any more: How was Sil able to be in charge of the Bing? It's not like his association with the Soprano mob was hidden. The Bing was a mob hideout. How could someone with Silvio's mob connections get a liquor license?


My guess is he got his liquor license with his mob connections.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I know it's tv, but... I don't think one mob boss can just decide all willy-nilly to take out another mob boss. Isn't there a council that decides these things? There's too much business and and too many interconnected relationships for that to happen. Plus, Phil's been boss for what, a month and a half? He doesn't have enough juice yet to be sanctioned to pull off a major coup. I remember when the Philadelphia mob was wracked by power struggles. They had to get the go ahead from New York to whack the boss.
> 
> One thing that always bothered me that doesn't matter any more: How was Sil able to be in charge of the Bing? It's not like his association with the Soprano mob was hidden. The Bing was a mob hideout. How could someone with Silvio's mob connections get a liquor license?


I think you answered your own question (other than the "it's TV" part): Phil IS NY. As he said, NJ is just a glorified crew.

As far as the liquor license, unless his own criminal record completely disqualifies him, I'm sure bribes and/or intimidation of local officials would make any mere _associations_ not be a problem.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

While I do not think that Tony would enter the WPP (not for a moment)...if he were to do it, the FBI would not be satisfied with just the NY part, Tony would have to sing about everyone, including his own crew...

heck he would have a ton more dirt on his crew...no way the FBI would let those guys off the hook...


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

If Tony does go into Witness Protection, I hope for his sake he makes a stop in Vegas along the way so he can take Peyote girl with him. Wow she's hot.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

angbear1985 said:


> My thoughts... I think that Paulie is blabbing things to Phil, secretly. I think that Paulie has joined up with Phil. I think the ending will be Paulie and Tony - going up against one of Phil's guys - and Phil, and then, Paulie will turn against Tony. Just, my thoughts. At first, I thought that Tony would end up in WPP, but now, the more I watch this show, I think it's going to be Paulie and Phil, that get to Tony.


Phil might have a mole in Tony's crew, but not necessarily Paulie. There were more than a few moments in this episode that made Patsy Parisi look very suspicious. Remember, Tony ordered the death of Patsy's twin brother, and Patsy either knows it or strongly suspects it. At one point he snuck on to Tony's property, drunk, with a pistol to shoot Tony, but ended up pissing in Tony's pool instead. This was from the episode where the FBI installed the bugged lamp in Tony's basement, IIRC. So it wouldn't be odd if Patsy turned out to be working for Phil.


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

dmdeane said:


> Phil might have a mole in Tony's crew, but not necessarily Paulie. There were more than a few moments in this episode that made Patsy Parisi look very suspicious. Remember, Tony ordered the death of Patsy's twin brother, and Patsy either knows it or strongly suspects it. At one point he snuck on to Tony's property, drunk, with a pistol to shoot Tony, but ended up pissing in Tony's pool instead. This was from the episode where the FBI installed the bugged lamp in Tony's basement, IIRC. So it wouldn't be odd if Patsy turned out to be working for Phil.


True.... good point. I remember that episode, too. But - still ... something tells me the mole (if there even is one) is Paulie.

Find out - Sunday!


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

I don't think its Paulie. He's in the house with Tony and had the option on leaving and wanted to stay and get some pizza.


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> One thing that always bothered me that doesn't matter any more: How was Sil able to be in charge of the Bing? It's not like his association with the Soprano mob was hidden. The Bing was a mob hideout. How could someone with Silvio's mob connections get a liquor license?


Just because Sil ran the place doesn't mean he held the license. I'm willing to bet the license isn't in the name of any of the people we've met on the show.

I'm more surprised that the guys who hit him actually did it at the Bing.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> Phil might have a mole in Tony's crew, but not necessarily Paulie. There were more than a few moments in this episode that made Patsy Parisi look very suspicious. Remember, Tony ordered the death of Patsy's twin brother, and Patsy either knows it or strongly suspects it. At one point he snuck on to Tony's property, drunk, with a pistol to shoot Tony, but ended up pissing in Tony's pool instead. This was from the episode where the FBI installed the bugged lamp in Tony's basement, IIRC. So it wouldn't be odd if Patsy turned out to be working for Phil.


Well if we see that in the previous scenes at the beginning of next week's ep, we'll know why. Perhaps they'll tie it in to the Meadow-whatever his son's name is story line.


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

JDHutt25 said:


> Isn't one of Tony's guys an FBI informant? They showed it awhile back and never came back to it. I think it was the guy that was in the car with Sil when he got shot. Is that Patsy?
> 
> Of course, I could be 100% mistaken.


I hate to quote myself, but now that we're talking about Patsy...did I make this up?


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## SoupMan (Mar 1, 2001)

I used to get Patsy confused with the older guy with similar glasses that was turning snitch at the beginning of last season. That guy actually keeled over while in the car with an FBI agent giving her some wire tapes.

edit - wiki say that character was Ray Curto. Similar appearance to Patsy.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> Phil might have a mole in Tony's crew, but not necessarily Paulie. There were more than a few moments in this episode that made Patsy Parisi look very suspicious. Remember, Tony ordered the death of Patsy's twin brother, and Patsy either knows it or strongly suspects it. At one point he snuck on to Tony's property, drunk, with a pistol to shoot Tony, but ended up pissing in Tony's pool instead. This was from the episode where the FBI installed the bugged lamp in Tony's basement, IIRC. So it wouldn't be odd if Patsy turned out to be working for Phil.


It would be odd for the guys to try to kill Patsy then. They were definitely shooting at Patsy when he was running away.


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

I still think ... if there is a mole - it's Paulie. And- yeah, he would still want to stay with Tony, at Jr.'s house ... free food! That's Paulie !


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## AggieKJ (Apr 20, 2005)

> I think that, whatever happens to Tony, the story will end with Janice in control of NJ.


I can't believe anyone would seriously think this would happen on the show. :down:


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

I don't think we will see much of Janice in the Finale. With Bobby getting wacked, I think that ended her storyline.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

angbear1985 said:


> I still think ... if there is a mole - it's Paulie. And- yeah, he would still want to stay with Tony, at Jr.'s house ... free food! That's Paulie !


you could think that, but then you'd be wrong!


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

snowjay said:


> I don't think its Paulie. He's in the house with Tony and had the option on leaving and wanted to stay and get some pizza.


Maybe he's waiting around to let the assasins in? What kind of pizza will be delivered?


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Anyone else think ordering the Pizza might have been a bad idea?


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

SoupMan said:


> I used to get Patsy confused with the older guy with similar glasses that was turning snitch at the beginning of last season. That guy actually keeled over while in the car with in FBI agent giving her some wire tapes.
> 
> edit - wiki say that character was Ray Curto. Similar appearcne to Patsy.


Ah yes. Now I remember. Yep, I was 100% wrong!


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

Phil doesn't consider Tony to be a real boss. First he says their ceremony is incorrect (no sword and gun) and then says NJ is just a glorified crew. So in his eyes, he's not taking out a boss.

What bugged the heck out of me was the fact that Sil was not strapped leaving the bing. That made no sense at all. He should have had an uzi in his coat.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

SoupMan said:


> I used to get Patsy confused with the older guy with similar glasses that was turning snitch at the beginning of last season. That guy actually keeled over while in the car with in FBI agent giving her some wire tapes.
> 
> edit - wiki say that character was Ray Curto. Similar appearcne to Patsy.


Me too. They looked really similar -- so much so I thought they could have been father/son or brothers. I used to get them confused all the time.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

chavez said:


> Phil doesn't consider Tony to be a real boss. First he says their ceremony is incorrect (no sword and gun) and then says NJ is just a glorified crew. So in his eyes, he's not taking out a boss.
> 
> What bugged the heck out of me was the fact that Sil was not strapped leaving the bing. That made no sense at all. He should have had an uzi in his coat.


I agree, there's been many times over the years when other families have said that Tony's bunch isn't really a family. The Sopranos has always made the mob seem like a bunch of thugs, and Tony's crew a bunch of idiot thugs, nothing more than common criminals with a good cover and lots of $. Tony's crew screws up almost everything they do.....just like Tony himself. Sil not walking around healed during a mob war is his latest (and probably last) screw up.

It's been a very entertaining show, but I've always kept in mind that it's a dramedy....many times it's funnier than some "comedies" on TV. Otherwise, it would just be a "Godfather" series, and well, that's not what the Sopranos was meant to be.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

snowjay said:


> I don't think its Paulie. He's in the house with Tony and had the option on leaving and wanted to stay and get some pizza.


What is stopping Paulie from taking out the other bodyguards and walking upstairs, opening the door and saying "Sorry T" and shooting Tony. Paulie has been in the can, old timer, everything that Phil stands for, thus only management, not Paulie, without giving up Paulie as an associate of Phil's. But T has a machine gun and could take out Paulie too.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

rimler said:


> I agree, there's been many times over the years when other families have said that Tony's bunch isn't really a family. The Sopranos has always made the mob seem like a bunch of thugs, and Tony's crew a bunch of idiot thugs, nothing more than common criminals with a good cover and lots of $. Tony's crew screws up almost everything they do.....just like Tony himself. Sil not walking around healed during a mob war is his latest (and probably last) screw up.


I never mistook the NY family for Rhodes Scholars...all of these people are idiot thugs but are organized and effective...


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

If Tony were to turn informant, he could probably place a lot of the burden on the parts of his crew that are now dead, which would be the vast majority of the major players...especially if he finds out that Paulie is in cahoots with Phil.
I was also surprised that Sil and Patsy both left with pistols rather than automatic assault rifles...even more so since Sil had to get back into the car to get his gun.

I thought the gunning down of Bobby and Sil was a bit rushed, but it sure was a lot of action for those who have been whining incessantly about a lack of action.
Glad to see Tony finally get aggressive with AJ, that kid is an embarrassment.
AKAIK, Phil is officially in hiding. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tony's crew take out whoever Phil sends after them, and getting information from one of them about Phil's whereabouts. Tony and Paulie then go hunt Phil down and one way or another both Tony and Phil are taken out, with Paulie being smug and thinking that he's successfully taken over the NY and NJ families, Paulie double-crossing both Tony and Phil would be the dramatic way to go out.
Shouldn't Carmine be involved in this somewhere at some point too?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

When Tony and Carmela were in Artie's restaurant Artie told them about someone being there. I really didn't pay any attention.

Now I read it was Eric Mangini coach of the Jets. Sorry if someone already mentioned this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/06/04/mangini.sopranos.ap/index.html



> "Tone, you know who's in tonight?" Bucco then asks Soprano. "Mangenius."
> 
> The camera pans to a table where Mangini, looking dapper in a suit instead of his usual black Jets warmup top and shorts, and his wife, Julie, are enjoying dinner.
> 
> ...


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## AggieKJ (Apr 20, 2005)

A few thoughts about some of the predictions that are flying around:

1. I don't think Paulie has joined the NY gang - he and Tony were all alone at Tony's house when theyw ere covering the windows etc. There was Paulie's perfect opportunity to kill Tony. Instead, he's cracking jokes about AJ's new girlfriend, showing just how calm he is when the sh*t is going down.

2. Dr. Melfi is done, over finished. I think her last scene was pretty darn final - the slamming of her door shut was very metaphorical. All the guesses about her going to the Feds, getting whacked by Tony because she knows too much etc are silly.

3. Even sillier - the predictions that AJ, Meadow or even JANICE will take over the NJ mob if Tony is killed. Yes, I am sure that the wise old NJ gangsters will have no problems letting a inexperienced wuss (AJ) take over, or a female that they all view as a young princess (Mead) or a total whack job (Janice). Preictions like this make me appreciate real writers a great deal.

4. AJ will do N-O-T-H-I-N-G meaningful in the final episode. Not only will this blubbering crybaby not TAKE OVER THE NEW JERSEY MAFIA, he will also not rise up and kill Phil, or kill his father or anything that requires a "pair".


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

AggieKJ said:


> A few thoughts about some of the predictions that are flying around:
> 
> 1. I don't think Paulie has joined the NY gang - he and Tony were all alone at Tony's house when theyw ere covering the windows etc. There was Paulie's perfect opportunity to kill Tony. Instead, he's cracking jokes about AJ's new girlfriend, showing just how calm he is when the sh*t is going down.


How were they all alone if AJ and his chick were out at the pool?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

prediction for the final ep:

50% of it will be spent with Carm and the kids while they anxiously fight with each other and wonder what is going on with Tony...


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

ironchef said:


> Just because Sil ran the place doesn't mean he held the license. I'm willing to bet the license isn't in the name of any of the people we've met on the show.
> 
> I'm more surprised that the guys who hit him actually did it at the Bing.


Yeah, I was surprised by that also. The Bing is a hangout for the NJ family so there could have been any number of made guys in there, the NY crew that started shooting really had a very low probability of surviving. I think in real life they would have backed off and tried to do it another time.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Timbeau said:


> Yeah, I was surprised by that also. The Bing is a hangout for the NJ family so there could have been any number of made guys in there, the NY crew that started shooting really had a very low probability of surviving. I think in real life they would have backed off and tried to do it another time.


well, they were coming to the Bing to kill Sil...they lucked into finding him outside just as he was leaving...so the original plan must have been to either wait outside and ambush him or to go in and shoot him...


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Some of youse people tawk like you neva seen dis show before. Dey don't do "surprises" or "hidden events" as in "surprise! Paulie's been working with New Yawk" or "surprise! Patsy's been a snitch da whole time." Instead, the story-telling is done in simple linear fashion, concentrating on the ordinary aspects of the lives of the people in the mob.

With that as a preface, allow me to shout a few things so hopefully they'll sink in:

1) PAULIE IS NOT A MOLE WORKING FOR NEW YORK!
2) TONY IS NOT GOING INTO WITNESS PROTECTION!

Thank you for your attention.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> well, they were coming to the Bing to kill Sil...they lucked into finding him outside just as he was leaving...so the original plan must have been to either wait outside and ambush him or to go in and shoot him...


I'm not sure how lucky that was--they didn't get chance to set up and be prepared for Sil, and had to wing it instead. As a result, they were seen coming, took fire, the driver escaped and can presumably ID them, and they maybe didn't get Sil. They would have been better off if they'd had the chance to set up their ambush--unless they're complete morons, which of course is not outside the realm of possibility!


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> When Tony and Carmela were in Artie's restaurant Artie told them about someone being there. I really didn't pay any attention.
> 
> Now I read it was Eric Mangini coach of the Jets. Sorry if someone already mentioned this.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/06/04/mangini.sopranos.ap/index.html


Thanks. I was wondering what that was all about. :up:


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not sure how lucky that was--they didn't get chance to set up and be prepared for Sil, and had to wing it instead. As a result, they were seen coming, took fire, the driver escaped and can presumably ID them, and they maybe didn't get Sil. They would have been better off if they'd had the chance to set up their ambush--unless they're complete morons, which of course is not outside the realm of possibility!


I'm not sure that ID'ing them is a requirement anymore, as they'll certainly be on close lookout for anybody that is just hanging out.
Since they're in hiding now, it's unlikely they'd come out until after someone made a move on them.
Other than the pizza guy, nobody should be coming to their door.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Are they really in hiding or just moving back into a defensible position ?


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

The (real) Star Ledger says its NOT Uncle Junior's house they are staying in, but another house they have for storage.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MasterOfPuppets said:


> I'm not sure that ID'ing them is a requirement anymore, as they'll certainly be on close lookout for anybody that is just hanging out.
> Since they're in hiding now, it's unlikely they'd come out until after someone made a move on them.
> Other than the pizza guy, nobody should be coming to their door.


Yes, but now there's every chance that some day, Tony's guys will be showing up at the hit men's doors.


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

Anubys said:


> well, they were coming to the Bing to kill Sil...they lucked into finding him outside just as he was leaving...so the original plan must have been to either wait outside and ambush him or to go in and shoot him...


As Rob said they were seen coming so they winged it. In the script that I wrote they were coming so they could follow him to wherever Tony was so they could ambush them both. But when they were seen they couldn't do that.


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## clreimers (Feb 8, 2007)

I see an Oedipus kinda of thing happening. AJ kills Tony. I think Oedipus means "swollen-footed" which AJ might well be after tying a cement block to his ankle.


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## AggieKJ (Apr 20, 2005)

> How were they all alone if AJ and his chick were out at the pool?


Ha - AJ has become such a non-factor/wuss, I didn't even count him as a "somebody".  
If Paulie whacked his dad, AJ would be about as effective as one of the ducks flying over the pool. So for all practical purposes, I stand by my assertion that they were all alone at the house!


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

AggieKJ said:


> Ha - AJ has become such a non-factor/wuss, I didn't even count him as a "somebody".
> If Paulie whacked his dad, AJ would be about as effective as one of the ducks flying over the pool. So for all practical purposes, I stand by my assertion that they were all alone at the house!


The point of AJ being a witness is not "uh-oh, he might step in," it's "uh-oh, we might go to jail for a long long time." AJ would be a witness, as would his girlfriend, both with a motivation to tell the cops who done Tony.

So they'd have to kill AJ and the girlfriend. Which (a) goes against the mafia code of conduct, and (b) is just kind of messy and risky in general (e.g., they might have to go outside to do it, risking a neighbor seeing it).


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

brianp6621 said:


> Anyone else think ordering the Pizza might have been a bad idea?


I thought it was weird. Ordering a bunch of italian take-out from an italian restuarant, is not exactly keeping a low profile.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I think AJ will take over after Tony gets whacked. He'll be The Suicidal Don and will start his "Woe is me!" whining before he takes out each of his enemies. Either that or he'll still be curled up in a ball in the closet when Tony dies. It could go either way.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

marksman said:


> I thought it was weird. Ordering a bunch of italian take-out from an italian restuarant, is not exactly keeping a low profile.


Glad I'm not the only one. This really made me think these guys are part time mobsters who haven't seen all the movies yet about what to do and not to do.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Just a few comments because I can't even speculate what's going to happen. 

This show, as has been pointed out by others, is really about Tony not only having to deal with his business, but also his family. We tend to forget that anyone other ourselves has to deal with family too. So I got a little laugh out of Tony leaving the Bing and basically saying, "OK you guys setup killing the NY guys, I gotta go change the tires on my wife's car." 

Like I said, I can't even speculate how it will end. But I'd love to see Tony and Paulie living together in a sort of modern day Odd Couple. That would be comedy gold.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

spikedavis said:


> Liked the Godfather homage when Melfi closed the door for the final time.


I tried searching but didn't find any reference to the wonderful Scorsese "Raging Bull" reference early in the episode. I liked it. :up:


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I'm sure it won't have the Godfather III ending, with Meadow taking a bullet meant for Tony, and dying in his arms.

I don't think it will have a definitive ending, but more of an ambiguous open ending.


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

Anubys said:


> they just hit the wrong house...a guy who looked like Phil had the misfortune of coming home at the wrong time...the girl was not Phil's mistress...


Here's the semi-official answer, from Terry Winter, a writer on The Sopranos (although not the writer of this episode). From Slate Magazine:



> Since I didn't write the episode, I can't say for sure whether "Flatbush Bikini Waxing" was a coincidence; only David Chase and Matt Weiner know for sure. I will say, however, that in an episode I co-wrote with those guys ("Kaisha"), Phil Leotardo almost gets blown to smithereens as he and *his now-deceased Ukrainian mistress* enter "Sheepshead Hair Design."


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

InterMurph said:


> Here's the semi-official answer, from Terry Winter, a writer on The Sopranos (although not the writer of this episode). From Slate Magazine:


About the lady being his mistress? That's interesting, I missed that. I still wonder how the father comes into the whole thing. A devious Phil setup? Just luck? Seems like the former.


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

rimler said:


> About the lady being his mistress? That's interesting, I missed that. I still wonder how the father comes into the whole thing. A devious Phil setup? Just luck? Seems like the former.


I think it's just bad luck on the father's part. I'm not sure how 1) Phil could know that the hit is on for his mistress' house, and 2) Phil could know _when_ the hit is on for his mistress's house, and 3) arrange for the mistress' father to show up while they are waiting for Phil.

As with most civilian casualties on the Sopranos, this guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

InterMurph said:


> As with most civilian casualties on the Sopranos, this guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.


And as I said before, he had the misfortune of having a daughter with a Daddy complex!


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## pex (Oct 21, 2002)

Dunno, I'm still going with Uncle Junior's house. I did, however, miss the 60's vintage dial wall phone in the kitchen that seemed to be such a part of the Junior house arrest scenes.

Aside: I didn't quite follow what the FBI agent meant when he said that if the planned hit was a sure thing, Tony would have been notified officially by the FBI in Trenton. If the FBI finds out about a planned hit, they would notify another mobster, possibly jeopardizing their source?!



goMO said:


> The (real) Star Ledger says its NOT Uncle Junior's house they are staying in, but another house they have for storage.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

jradford said:


> It would be odd for the guys to try to kill Patsy then. They were definitely shooting at Patsy when he was running away.


Yes, but the guys sent to whack Sil would not have known if Patsy were a mole. Only Phil and one or two of his top guys would know that kind of information. So they shot at Patsy after shooting Sil, since Patsy was shooting at them. It's not as though Phil would lose any sleep if one of his moles within Tony's crew got whacked by accident, as long as Sil also got whacked.

Patsy didn't exactly do a lot to protect Sil. He made a few wild shots that didn't hit anything, and then he ran away. He should have at least hit reverse and stomped on the gas; that might have given them both enough time, once they ran out of parking lot, to exit the car and have a fighting chance of either shooting it out outside the car, or running away.

If Patsy were a mole, he would have been perfectly placed to make a quick phone call and alert Phil's people that Sil was on the alert and was just about ready to go underground for a while. Maybe that is why the Sil hit looked so amateurish compared to the hit on Bobby: maybe it was hastily arranged at the last possible moment. Maybe they knew that they were running out of time and that the Bing at that moment was the last possible place to hit Sil before he disappeared.

Or maybe there is no mole.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And as I said before, he had the misfortune of having a daughter with a Daddy complex!


Makes you wonder if she ever introduced Phil to her father. Maybe it's not such a coincidence that her father happened to show up on a night when Phil wasn't there.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pex said:


> Aside: I didn't quite follow what the FBI agent meant when he said that if the planned hit was a sure thing, Tony would have been notified officially by the FBI in Trenton. If the FBI finds out about a planned hit, they would notify another mobster, possibly jeopardizing their source?!


I would hope that if they knew about a planned murder and did nothing to stop it, they would be subject to prosecution as co-conspirators...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I would hope that if they knew about a planned murder and did nothing to stop it, they would be subject to prosecution as co-conspirators...


I'd like to know the answer to that...certainly, the way Tony was "notified" was as unofficial as they come...the guy who told him didn't even work in that field anymore and just knew it from a "friend of a friend" kind of way...


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

dmdeane said:


> Makes you wonder if she ever introduced Phil to her father. Maybe it's not such a coincidence that her father happened to show up on a night when Phil wasn't there.


Phil wasn't there _yet_. They said that he visited his mistress every Friday night, so presumably he was going to visit later.

And as I recall from Goodfellas, Friday night is goomare night, and Saturday is wife night.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I'd like to know the answer to that...certainly, the way Tony was "notified" was as unofficial as they come...the guy who told him didn't even work in that field anymore and just knew it from a "friend of a friend" kind of way...


The agent (you'd think I'd know the names of these guys better) said that their information wasn't solid enough to warrant an official warning, and that they'd be obligated to warn Tony about it if it had been more solid. I don't recall his exact words - I don't think he was implying that his source wasn't reliable, perhaps it was more that they were thinking about whacking him and not actually planning it at this point. In any case, he made reference to their obligation to warn Tony if their information met a certain standard, and that it did not, but he was warning him as a favor in return for Tony's assistance with the suspected terrorists.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

InterMurph said:


> Phil wasn't there _yet_. They said that he visited his mistress every Friday night, so presumably he was going to visit later.


Incorrect. Phil had already gone to ground. He was not going to show up that night. Or any night thereafter, until the business with eliminating Tony, Sil, and Bobby was completed.


> And as I recall from Goodfellas, Friday night is goomare night, and Saturday is wife night.


Recall that in this episode they said that Phil was nowhere to be found, anywhere, and no one had seen him for days. In other words, he ordered the hits on Tony and Sil and Bobby, and then he went into hiding. He was never going to show up at his mistress' house that Friday night, ever. He was not going to show up later because he was hiding out. The whole point of the episode was that _Phil broke off his usual routines_ (such as visiting his mistress) whereas Tony's crew did not break off from their routines until it was too late.

As to his mistress, it's not like Phil would have told her why he was "leaving town for a few weeks", or whatever excuse he gave her, so she would not have been expecting any kind of trouble, much less an attempt to whack Phil. So maybe with nothing to do on a Friday night, Phil's mistress invited her father over to socialize, thus contributing to a very horrendous case of bad timing.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> The whole point of the episode was that _Phil broke off his usual routines_ (such as visiting his mistress) whereas Tony's crew did not break off from their routines until it was too late.


I agree with you in general, i.e. that Phil went into hiding and that's why he wasn't meeting up with her. But you seem to be implying (maybe unintentionally) that Tony's crew dilly-dallied in reacting to the news about the possible hit. Obviously, they were too late, but it wasn't because it didn't occur to them right away to do that.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> I agree with you in general, i.e. that Phil went into hiding and that's why he wasn't meeting up with her. But you seem to be implying (maybe unintentionally) that Tony's crew dilly-dallied in reacting to the news about the possible hit. Obviously, they were too late, but it wasn't because it didn't occur to them right away to do that.


I didn't imply that, the writers of this episode did. Tony and Sil decide to whack the head of the New York family and it never occurs to them to lie low immediately? They know that Phil is moving against them and it never occurs to them to change their routines until after their botched assassination attempt reveals that Phil has already gone to ground? If that isn't betraying a certain lack of urgency on their part ("dilly-dallying"), what would you call it?

The entire episode gave the impression that Phil was one step ahead of them. Tony and Sil were reacting to events rather than shaping them.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

dmdeane said:


> I didn't imply that, the writers of this episode did. Tony and Sil decide to whack the head of the New York family and it never occurs to them to lie low immediately? They know that Phil is moving against them and it never occurs to them to change their routines until after their botched assassination attempt reveals that Phil has already gone to ground? If that isn't betraying a certain lack of urgency on their part ("dilly-dallying"), what would you call it?


Yeah, this episode seemed to really imply exactly what Phil said, the NJ family is just a crew and a poorly run one at that. Poor planning, poor execution, and lack of foresight (like the ordering pizza while in hiding)


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

dmdeane said:


> As to his mistress, it's not like Phil would have told her why he was "leaving town for a few weeks", or whatever excuse he gave her, so she would not have been expecting any kind of trouble, much less an attempt to whack Phil. So maybe with nothing to do on a Friday night, Phil's mistress invited her father over to socialize, thus contributing to a very horrendous case of bad timing.


You're right!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> I didn't imply that, the writers of this episode did. Tony and Sil decide to whack the head of the New York family and it never occurs to them to lie low immediately? They know that Phil is moving against them and it never occurs to them to change their routines until after their botched assassination attempt reveals that Phil has already gone to ground? If that isn't betraying a certain lack of urgency on their part ("dilly-dallying"), what would you call it?
> 
> The entire episode gave the impression that Phil was one step ahead of them. Tony and Sil were reacting to events rather than shaping them.


Ah, sorry. I was thinking they started packing up as soon as Tony found out about Phil's plan, but it was after their screwup. My bad (it's been 3 days).

Still, it's not like Tony et. al. didn't react at all - at least they _decided_ to take action against Phil. And in some senses, they did plan better than Phil, hiring outsiders that Phil wouldn't recognize. Obviously it wasn't executed as well as it was planned, but if they wanted to make Tony's people look incompetent, they certainly mitigated it to some extent.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Here's an article from CNN regarding the psychiatrists' breaches of ethics in this episode: Therapists become bad guys on 'The Sopranos'


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

And what about the Zips? Tony brings in some of "our cousins" from Sicily to do the job.

They will have loyalty to a New Jersey family, but not to the head of a New York family?

And why wasn't Furio called in on this one? He would have handled it properly.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

InterMurph said:


> And what about the Zips? Tony brings in some of "our cousins" from Sicily to do the job.
> 
> They will have loyalty to a New Jersey family, but not to the head of a New York family?
> 
> And why wasn't Furio called in on this one? He would have handled it properly.


Furio could be recognized if seen in the area.

As for as the loyalty from Italy, even in Italy they have different families, the American mob families don't have all the same ties back in the old country.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

InterMurph said:


> And what about the Zips? Tony brings in some of "our cousins" from Sicily to do the job.
> 
> They will have loyalty to a New Jersey family, but not to the head of a New York family?
> 
> And why wasn't Furio called in on this one? He would have handled it properly.


Didn't Tony find out about his attraction to Carmela?


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## catzed (Jan 4, 2003)

I think the goomar lived with her father. It's not uncommon that generations of family, especially immigrants, live together. I believe he let himself in.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Didn't Tony find out about his attraction to Carmela?


yes, and Tony has an open contract on his head even back in Italy...Furio was not an option...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Anubys said:


> yes, and Tony has an open contract on his head even back in Italy...Furio was not an option...


Well if I can't remember 3 days ago, at least I can remember 3 years.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

Here's how I think it's gonna end...

Final scene--Tony gets whacked. Dead. Done. Finished.

Fade to Black

"Time Waits for No One", by The Rolling Stones, plays over the credits, followed by...

...Coming Fall 2008... The Leotardos


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## minorthr (Nov 24, 2001)

I have been thinking what if they pull a newhart type ending and tony wakes up and is that salesman guy he was dreaming about when he was shot.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

minorthr said:


> I have been thinking what if they pull a newhart type ending and tony wakes up and is that salesman guy he was dreaming about when he was shot.


or maybe AJ is an autistic child looking into a snowglobe.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Langree said:


> or maybe AJ is an autistic child looking into a snowglobe.


There is, of course, another possibility. If Tony's house has a big enough shower...


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There is, of course, another possibility. If Tony's house has a big enough shower...


Psycho reference?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Mike20878 said:


> Psycho reference?


Dallas reference I think, the post "dream season" when Patrick Duffy returned to the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Langree said:


> Dallas reference I think, the post "dream season" when Patrick Duffy returned to the show.


Bingo.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Speaking of a dream....would Chase have the audacity to make the final episode on of his famous dream sequences? The last episode ended with Tony going to sleep. Maybe it will be one of those wild dream things, ending with Tony being killed...but you don't know if it was real or part of the dream.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

smickola said:


> Speaking of a dream....would Chase have the audacity to make the final episode on of his famous dream sequences?


Yes, but I don't think he will. You'll get credit if he does, though.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Maybe Tony will have a dream in which Kevin Finnerty visits Dr. Melfi. For an hour.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> Maybe Tony will have a dream in which Kevin Finnerty visits Dr. Melfi. For an hour.


...with AJ


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

For all you Long Islanders :

I just read in Newsday that Bobby's hit scene was filmed in February, at Trainland, in Lynbrook, on Sunrise Hwy.
Apparently there are not that many train stores in the tri state area and they wanted one that looked like it was in the suburbs.
(the owner has a second store in the City)
Additionally the Blue Comet train set is worth a ton of money, but the one used for filming was a replica, from 1991, that goes for about $1900.00. Interesting stuff.


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