# HR-10 vs. HR-20 Again



## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

I have had my HR-10 for two years and love the way it works now. The glitches with audio dropouts and missing recordings were fixed last January. These occurred mostly with OTA HD broadcasts, which is where my HR-10 is mostly used. 

Reading posts on this site led me to believe the HR-20 was the Devil's evil creation. Then, my son-in-law ordered HD from Direct TV and a HD DVR this summer. Immediately, he and his wife raved about how right we were about having a TIVO. They had no idea theirs was not a TIVO, but learned to use it WITHOUT GLITCHES almost immediately and intuitively. I've used their HR-20 briefly and cannot see even ONE reason it is inferior to my TIVO. 

So, does this mean my family is extremely stupid for not seeing the folly of the HR-20? Or, are the HR-20-haters on this board a little eccentric or ? 

I think it is time for me to take Direct TV's offer of $99 to install an HR-20 (Not HR-21) & 5 LNB dish in my home theater system and retire the HR-10 to the bedroom TV. 

Can anybody give me a reason why I shouldn't do this?


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

No reason here. Go for it.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Note that many people have found that DirecTV cannot guarantee you an HR20 - HR21 is pretty much what all the installers have. You will want to call the installer directly to check on this.


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## Jim Abbett (Nov 6, 2005)

I got my HR20 installed today. I've had the HR10-250 for 2 years so I was skeptical about the HR20.

So far, so good! It took a while to get used to the remote but the new features are worth it!


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

There are about 70+ reasons to go for it.


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

I think you'll find that people's experiences have been somewhat mixed. It seems that many of the negative experiences came from early on. More recently, it seems that many folks are finding that the HR20 is a very capable replacement for the TiVo-based HR10.

For myself and my household, we've found the HR20 to be better than the HR10 in many ways. I personally do not feel the HR20 is inferior in any way and, in fact, is mostly superior. But, again, this is only my opinion and is based solely on my own experience (3 HR20's in my household for about 5 months).

That said, you may find that you are looking for specific features of the HR10 that do not exist on the HR20. In my case, I found that I got by without them to the point now that I don't even miss them.

I would suggest that you take some time and read some of the information available at www.dbstalk.com. I think you'll find that the folks over there have quite a bit of useful knowledge about the HR20 and how it compares to the HR10.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks for the helpful responses!! I expected some earth-burning criticisms of my posting after reading so many like that in the past few years. It's nice to hear people who have used the HR-20 rather than people who hate it without ever having touched one--and say they never will.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

theres definitely some negatives (as with any dvr) concerning the hr20 imo, but its the only way to get mpeg4 hd channels which are really great. keeping the hr10 as backup for any potential missed recordings is smart, but the hr20 really is a pretty decent unit.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

Add my vote to the "go for it" column. I have three HR20s and have very few problems with them. I only have two real complaints about the box, which may or may not impact you depending on how you use it: First, the "skip-to-tick" function is poorly implemented and quite cumbersome, especially if you are trying to skip three or four in a row. Second, it is difficult (if not impossible) to scan down to review the END of a program -- if you get too close, you'll hit the end and get a "Delete/Don't Delete" message, with no option to simply back up.

I personally find both of these things to be highly annoying, but apparently I use these machines in a different manner than most people, as I rarely see any complaints about this. Or maybe I got used to TiVo software which made these two things a breeze? I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they'll address these issues in a future software upgrade.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

boneskrw said:


> Or, are the HR-20-haters on this board a little eccentric ...


Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

As I mentioned in another thread, I use a universal remote (MX-500) for my HR10s and 95% of the HR20 functions transfered over to the same buttons. So there was a very small learning curve. Of course there are some things that will take a while to get used to, but the added features far outweigh those (IMO).


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

I think the issue comes down to....
Are you willing to take on the HR2x learning curve in order to get more HD channels?

I said "yes" (very recently). And I am enjoying the new channels.

Do I prefer Tivo "style" over directv "style". Yep. 


Actually, here is my hybrid solution.

TivoHD with lifetime hooked up to only an OTA antenna. (I get all networks through OTA).
I get the tivo "style", and the features like downloadable material.

Then I have an HR20 for getting the most HD channels.

Please don't make me pick which one I'd give up first.....


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Absolutely no reason not to go for it. The HR20's bad rep has everything to do with just a few little words: _It's not TiVo_. Get past that and you find that while the box is different with a different user interface, it functions perfectly well for the vast majority of users.

The same can actually currently be said about the R15 boxes, though those boxes have a much bigger group of haters out there I think, and admittedly, from what I know of the situation some of the early software for the R15 series was just no where near as stable and as usable as it should have been. My son has had one for over a year though, and as the software has been revised, it has gotten better and better. A year ago he hated it and wanted a TiVo to use again. A year later he's surviving just fine with the R15 and my in-laws have also made the jump over to using an R15 (though they really don't use the DVR functions on the box much at all.... old dogs, new tricks, and all that jazz....)


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## kroddy (Oct 31, 2001)

I bit the bullet and went for it last week... six days in I am hardly missing the TiVo experience at all... the interface is different but it doesn't take too much effort to figure out how to get where you need to be. I'm no longer a Sunday ticket freak so lack of dual live buffers is a non-issue for me, I still prefer the Tivo list style guide to the grid, but I am getting used to it. I am slightly miffed that I got an HR21 not a 20, but I was planning on leaving the Tivo up for some time anyway while I catch up with all the stuff I still have to watch on it... hopefully either the rumored OTA solution for the HR21 or a carriage agreement for PBS-HD can be sorted before too long, and then I'm a reasonably happy camper.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

Again, thanks for the helpful responses!! The comments on some threads in this forum remind me of the hi-fi vinyl record and vacuum tube diehards. If I listened only to vinyl records, the choices I'd have to enjoy would be severely limited. Kind of like limiting yourself to seven HD channels with TIVO vs. 40+ with the new DVR. Except, in this case, there is very little question of picture or sound quality, only in ease of navigation of the menus. Try handling and navigating music off vinyl records instead of CD's!! Remember the scratches, pops, dust, tape hiss, skipping grooves, and tracking distortion near the center of the record? It was great at the time, but most of us moved on.


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## Brynk (Jan 24, 2005)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the difference in picture quality?
The picture from my HR20-100 is brighter, sharper and more vibrant than my HR10-250 (both feed in to HDMI connections on the same tv)

Maybe it's somehow unique to my system???

Barry


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

Brynk said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the difference in picture quality?
> The picture from my HR20-100 is brighter, sharper and more vibrant than my HR10-250 (both feed in to HDMI connections on the same tv)
> 
> Maybe it's somehow unique to my system???
> ...


That's a good point and I don't think it's unique to your system. The picture from my HR10's was quite soft when compared to my HR20's.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

boneskrw said:


> Again, thanks for the helpful responses!! The comments on some threads in this forum remind me of the hi-fi vinyl record and vacuum tube diehards. If I listened only to vinyl records, the choices I'd have to enjoy would be severely limited. Kind of like limiting yourself to seven HD channels with TIVO vs. 40+ with the new DVR. Except, in this case, there is very little question of picture or sound quality, only in ease of navigation of the menus. Try handling and navigating music off vinyl records instead of CD's!! Remember the scratches, pops, dust, tape hiss, skipping grooves, and tracking distortion near the center of the record? It was great at the time, but most of us moved on.


I'm glad you find these responses so helpful. It appears to me that you had made up your mind long before keying the first word and that perhaps your real intention is to poke fun at us old fogies who prefer the Tivo


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## taimoor (Sep 1, 2004)

Just like everyone else... been following this debate for a while now...
and i have this question...

I really want to go for the HR20 .. (I have the full Directv Package Plus HD, plus NFLST and Superfan) ... i can deal with the learning curve for more HD channles, but the one thing I cant deal with is sometimes, like on mondays and thursday nights, ive got CBS and NBC recording programs at the same time.

Now im assuming because I dont have dual live buffers I wont be able to do that... someone tell me it aint so and I will pull the trigger tomorrow... 

Thanks


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

taimoor said:


> Now im assuming because I dont have dual live buffers I wont be able to do that... someone tell me it aint so and I will pull the trigger tomorrow...
> 
> Thanks


The HR20/21 has dual tuners so you can record 2 shows at the same time. What it doesn't have are the dual live buffers which means you can't jump back and forth between 2 channels without losing the buffer. On the HR10 you can hit the down arrow to jump back and forth which is nice for NFLST if you want to jump between 2 games but the HR20 can definately record both CBS and NBC at the same time.


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## taimoor (Sep 1, 2004)

hmm... very interesting... ok... slightly annoying but i think i can live with that for all the HD gains... now to figure out how to get an HR20 and put a bigger hard drive in it.... im excited for me... 

I will miss watching my favourite game on one buffer and having the HD red zone channel on the other one...


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## robnalex (Sep 8, 2002)

taimoor said:


> now to figure out how to get an HR20 and put a bigger hard drive in it....


The HR20 has an eSATA port. All you have to do is plug one in.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

taimoor said:


> hmm... very interesting... ok... slightly annoying but i think i can live with that for all the HD gains... now to figure out how to get an HR20 and put a bigger hard drive in it.... im excited for me...
> 
> I will miss watching my favourite game on one buffer and having the HD red zone channel on the other one...


No need to put a larger hard drive IN it. You can get a eSATA hard drive enclosure, put the largerst drive you want in it and then connect it to the back of the HR20/21. This will replace the one inside for as long as it is connected. This forum has more info about eSATA drives.
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112


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## appletj (Sep 8, 2004)

Mark Lopez said:


> Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
> 
> As I mentioned in another thread, I use a universal remote (MX-500) for my HR10s and 95% of the HR20 functions transfered over to the same buttons. So there was a very small learning curve. Of course there are some things that will take a while to get used to, but the added features far outweigh those (IMO).


I think I can shed a little light on the bitterness of some HR10 owners. I purchased my HR10-250 for $949.00 plus shipping when the unit was first introduced. The retail price at the time was $999.00 At the time I thought was a pretty good deal. Now that the box is obsolete and D* is going to start removing MPEG2 HD channels come January I will have paid about $25 a month ON TOP of the monthly D* charges over the 3 & 1/2 YEARS I've had the box. Yeah, you bet your ass I'm a just a little disgruntled.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

Why were you paying $25 extra for the HR10? Cost should be $5.00 per month for DVR plus $10.00 for HD service.


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## adlerx (Feb 22, 2007)

I am brand new to HD, just got my new TV couple of weeks ago. I am also a die hard Tivo lover. Only had my HR21 for a few days but it's not so bad. Remote is easy enough, menus are a little more cumbersome but no biggie. The HUGE issue for me is the double buffer but that's because of the way I watch TV. Figured a way around the problem though, got a HR10-250 to go along with the hr21 both on the same TV with a HDMI switch so I can toggle between the two seamlessly. Really, there are so few channels in HD that I even watch, I won't have a problem at all once I get it all hooked up and sorted out....

Now what's this about all the added features everyone is talking about? I know about the new channels but am unaware of any advanced features...


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## adlerx (Feb 22, 2007)

boneskrw said:


> Why were you paying $25 extra for the HR10? Cost should be $5.00 per month for DVR plus $10.00 for HD service.


pretty sure he is referring to cost of the Hr 10-250.... That's in addition to the $5 for DVR and $10 for HD
DUH....


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

appletj said:


> I purchased my HR10-250 for $949.00 plus shipping when the unit was first introduced. The retail price at the time was $999.00 At the time I thought was a pretty good deal. Now that the box is obsolete and D* is going to start removing MPEG2 HD channels come January I will have paid about $25 a month ON TOP of the monthly D* charges over the 3 & 1/2 YEARS I've had the box. Yeah, you bet your ass I'm a just a little disgruntled.


I also bought 2 HR10s at full price when they first came out. But that was like 3 years ago. So I'm not a bit upset. My two $3K HD TVs can now be had for less than half what I paid too. Seeing how the HR20 can be gotten for practically nothing, I just don't see what the big deal is. <shrug>


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

adlerx said:


> Now what's this about all the added features everyone is talking about? I know about the new channels but am unaware of any advanced features...


Check out www.dbstalk.com and go to the HR20/21 section. You can put your HR2x on the network and stream music and photos to your DVR from your PC. Also, the HR20 (soon to be HR21) also has DIRECTV on Demand which uses your network connection to download shows straight to your DVR. Lots of good info over there. Hope to see you soon!


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

appletj said:


> I think I can shed a little light on the bitterness of some HR10 owners. I purchased my HR10-250 for $949.00 plus shipping when the unit was first introduced. The retail price at the time was $999.00 At the time I thought was a pretty good deal. Now that the box is obsolete and D* is going to start removing MPEG2 HD channels come January I will have paid about $25 a month ON TOP of the monthly D* charges over the 3 & 1/2 YEARS I've had the box. Yeah, you bet your ass I'm a just a little disgruntled.


If you paid full price for the HR10 DirecTV should* upgrade you free of charge. Yes it would be leased but there isn't much you can do with it outside of DirecTV anyway. I paid $850 for my HR10 when I bought it and DirecTV gave me a free upgrade back in October of 2006 and they are installing a second HR20 tomorrow free of charge. That sounds pretty fair to me.

*If they don't offer a free upgrade than I would agree you have a legitimate gripe.


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## rcawood (Jun 19, 2004)

My single favorite TIVO feature is the auto rewind after I hit play coming out of commercials. This feature is great for me (I don&#8217;t use 30 sec skip) and consistently puts me right at the beginning of the program.

When I inquired about this feature back in September 2006 on DBSTalk the &#8220;work-around&#8221; responses indicated that you could hit the &#8220;jump back&#8221; button on the HR-20 but that it was not consistent as to how far back it took you and generally was not effective in the same way as the TIVO&#8217;s automatic feature. What is the current status of the HR-20 for this feature? For people that were heavy users of the TIVO auto rewind feature (like me), how has the HR-20 worked out for you?


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

Maybe this has been answered before, but can you record OTA HD on the HR20 as you can on the HR10 ?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Tivo_60 said:


> Maybe this has been answered before, but can you record OTA HD on the HR20 as you can on the HR10 ?


On an HR20.. Yes
On an HR21.. No


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

rcawood said:


> My single favorite TIVO feature is the auto rewind after I hit play coming out of commercials. This feature is great for me (I dont use 30 sec skip) and consistently puts me right at the beginning of the program.
> 
> When I inquired about this feature back in September 2006 on DBSTalk the work-around responses indicated that you could hit the jump back button on the HR-20 but that it was not consistent as to how far back it took you and generally was not effective in the same way as the TIVOs automatic feature. What is the current status of the HR-20 for this feature? For people that were heavy users of the TIVO auto rewind feature (like me), how has the HR-20 worked out for you?


People have mixed reviews regarding the implementation of FF compensation in the HR2x series. I personally find that it works quite well, but I have been using the 30 second slip feature more heavily recently.

I have also noticed that the FF compensation is slightly different on MPEG4 channels than it is on MPEG 2 channels but, again, I find that it works well on both.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

badmonkey said:


> People have mixed reviews regarding the implementation of FF compensation in the HR2x series. I personally find that it works quite well, but I have been using the 30 second slip feature more heavily recently.
> 
> I have also noticed that the FF compensation is slightly different on MPEG4 channels than it is on MPEG 2 channels but, again, I find that it works well on both.


That is because the compensation, ends on the nearest I-Frame in the compressed video. On MPEG-2 there are typicall more I-Frames, then on MPEG-4... so the adjustment varies slight between the two compression types


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## DDayDawg (Jul 13, 2004)

Back when the HR20 first started taking over I was one of the TiVo diehards that was very opposed to this unit. I refused to even consider a DirecTV unit until the new HD showed up and my love of HD programming beat out my stubborn insistence.

So, I have both my HR10-250 and my HR20 sitting in the same cabinet hooked to the TV. At first I watched the 10-250 and only switched over to see the new HD channels. But, as time has passed I have noticed I default to using the HR20. Part of this was because of the re-boots but with that fixed I still stay with the new box.

The worst things about the HR20 are the "no dual buffers" and not having a wishlist. On the plus side it works well and the picture looks much better. I would say go for it. The new programming trumps all the negatives.


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## Robert Spalding (Jan 12, 2001)

can I subscribe to the Family pack at $40 a month and then get some HD pack add on for $10 for the 75 channels?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Robert Spalding said:


> can I subscribe to the Family pack at $40 a month and then get some HD pack add on for $10 for the 75 channels?


The $10/month HD access fee entitles you to any HD channel in the package you subscribe to. So if you had the Family pack plus paid the $10 HD access fee you would only get the HD versions of channels in the Family pack.


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## Hookd (Oct 28, 2002)

boneskrw said:


> Can anybody give me a reason why I shouldn't do this?


I can!!!!

First off, I have had a tivo series 1, 2, HR 10. And, I've just gotten HR21 and DirecTv installed the new dish.

I don't know what is going on and I am going to call DTV today. But, the shows jitter frequently. During a movie on Showtime HD yesterday, a screen saver came on. The audio gets out of sync on occassion then goes back. CNBCHD has absolutely no audio level or it fades in and out.

The setup just sucks. It isn't as easy to use as a Tivo. I hate the you could be flipping between two channels and the DVR doesn't keep them both in memory to rewind them. I don't like how you have to access the things you record. I have a flipping 50in TV. I don't need it little and in the left corner. When I am watching something.. where's my flipping live button. Okay.. I know I can get to it with a list but I hate hitting stop or exit. And, why isn't it easier to get to delete a show.

I am just saying, and I admit that I haven't really had time to play with it really, but I like a Tivo better. And, once FIOS TV is in my area, I don't know if I am going to stay with DTV anymore. It used to be the cheapest way to go but I am not happy with the added sneaky charges.

Also, DTV constantly keeps adding a DVR charge to my bill even though I paid for a lifetime service with him.


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## kanderna (Nov 26, 2003)

I have two HR20s in use (on little-used TVs), and one in waiting. Still have one of my HR10s hooked up to the main TV. Main reason for this? You guessed it... DLB. After Bowl season I will reluctantly migrate to the HR20. Now don't get me wrong, the HR20 is a perfectly capable machine... the 90 minute buffer, the fact that it keeps the buffer even when the machine is off, and a bunch of other features.... but lack of DLB just kills me. That's just how I watch TV.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Press the Red button to delete a show while viewing the list. Exit is pretty much the same as LiveTV for TiVo.

I think you need to live with it for more than a few days before comparing.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Hookd said:


> I don't like how you have to access the things you record.


Huh?  It's one button (list) just like Tivo.

As I mentioned previously, I have a MX-500 I used for my HR10. 95% of the buttons/functions are the same. I did have to add some of the special ones like the color buttons, but that just makes things even easier on certain screens.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

stevel said:


> Press the Red button to delete a show while viewing the list. .


is there any way to delete a show from being recorded while you are looking at all upcoming episides


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

newsposter said:


> is there any way to delete a show from being recorded while you are looking at all upcoming episides


While in the ToDo list...
Highlight the scheduled recording, hit RED BUTTON


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> While in the ToDo list...
> Highlight the scheduled recording, hit RED BUTTON


no i mean the list that shows all upcoming ups of a series..could be pages and pages of them. You may want to change times but i havent found a way to delete the recording from that upcoming list. I tried pressing the red button


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

boneskrw said:


> I have had my HR-10 for two years and love the way it works now. The glitches with audio dropouts and missing recordings were fixed last January. These occurred mostly with OTA HD broadcasts, which is where my HR-10 is mostly used.
> 
> Reading posts on this site led me to believe the HR-20 was the Devil's evil creation. Then, my son-in-law ordered HD from Direct TV and a HD DVR this summer. Immediately, he and his wife raved about how right we were about having a TIVO. They had no idea theirs was not a TIVO, but learned to use it WITHOUT GLITCHES almost immediately and intuitively. I've used their HR-20 briefly and cannot see even ONE reason it is inferior to my TIVO.
> 
> ...


I can. Check your PM.


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## Hookd (Oct 28, 2002)

Mark Lopez said:


> Huh?  It's one button (list) just like Tivo.
> 
> As I mentioned previously, I have a MX-500 I used for my HR10. 95% of the buttons/functions are the same. I did have to add some of the special ones like the color buttons, but that just makes things even easier on certain screens.


Sorry, Mark, I just don't think it is as good as a Tivo. I now have had it for months.. and don't like using it.

The other issues are now that I've setup the show to Tape "Terminator: Sarah Connor" and it didn't record it. It was in the list but didn't record. Same thing with a few other shows.

I don't think it is as easy. The remote control isn't convenient early.


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