# No More National HD until 2007 !!



## DVRaholic (Mar 28, 2004)

According to this Post at SatelliteGuys Dont Expect any National HD channels to be added Until the First of the last 2 Satellites goes up in Early 2007!!!! . :down: :down: 
I just wish they could throw us a couple NOW 

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=449304&postcount=25


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## disco (Mar 27, 2000)

To jump from "expect a massive increase in both HD picture quality and national HD offerings" (as posted in the forum you link to), to "don't expect *any* national HD channels to be added..until..early 2007" is quite a leap. DirecTV has already stated several times they are going to be very agressive in the HD local rollout, and that national channels would possibly be added, but that they have a very tight amount of bandwidth to work with in MPEG2 (until a MPEG4 trade-out begins with the 800,000 current HDTV D* subscribers, they are going to be very cautious about adding HD nationals as MPEG4 channels...that would piss off a lot of current subscribers who would then be FORCED to upgrade to an MPEG4 box to receive those added channels).

I'm only guessing from postings on numerous boards, but...I wouldn't be surprised if they added TNT-HD, HGTV-HD, MTV-HD, and/or FOOD-HD within 8-10 weeks. **PURE SPECULATION**


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

I've been saying this for months.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

BTW, "early 2007" is less than a year away.


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## disco (Mar 27, 2000)

Dan Collins said:


> I've been saying this for months.


Really Dan? NO additional national HD channels on D* until early 2007?? Is that what you're hearing??


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

iF VOOM was still around I'd be begging tivo to make a deal with them lol. Man it would be nice to have 50 HD channels right now.


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## mssturgeon (Jan 4, 2005)

generalpatton71 said:


> iF VOOM was still around I'd be begging tivo to make a deal with them lol. Man it would be nice to have 50 HD channels right now.


They are still around, as a programming provider. They just do not transmit via their own satellites anymore. You can get almost all of the channels Voom used to have on Dish as of Feb. 1st. 25 HD channels for $20 package price.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/01/ces_-_day_1.php

- Shane


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

disco said:


> Really Dan? NO additional national HD channels on D* until early 2007?? Is that what you're hearing??


Dan recently posted on his board that he thinks they likely will compress the current HD and SD on the Ku sats some more to fit in a little more HD. With Sunday Ticket gone, I'd say that sounds likely to me- squish some more and add a couple channels to say they did something.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Didnt DISH just announce a ton of HD content it quired from VOOM? Seems like thats a big incentive to get DTV moving along. Dont they share satellites with DISH?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I started occasionally looking at the dish forum here

http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=43

it's amazing...they ***** like we do too....i dont know all the specifics, but it appears they are rationed to one free trade in mpeg4 receiver if i'm reading it right.

Hope dtv doesn't do that for you poor people that have more than one tivo


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## jdk (Mar 15, 2001)

rkester said:


> Didnt DISH just announce a ton of HD content it quired from VOOM? Seems like thats a big incentive to get DTV moving along. Dont they share satellites with DISH?


nope - each provider much launch its own satellites.

LonhornXP (who has a knowledgeable inside source) confirmed this for me a few weeks back on a different board and in an unrelated thread - I'll see if I can find it.
(I was waiting for the word to get out on the main boards - I was surprised there wasn't more of an outrage about this...)
I then went back and re-read any official annoucements or press releases. They all can be easily intrepreted to say that new national HD programming is coming in 2007.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

newsposter said:


> ...it's amazing...they ***** like we do too...


They ***** like we do, in quantity, maybe a little more. But they seem to ***** more about PVR problems than they do DBS problems. I guess that is because they have more PVR problems and we have more DBS problems (at least as far as HD is concerned).


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## scooby2 (Dec 24, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> They ***** like we do, in quantity, maybe a little more. But they seem to ***** more about PVR problems than they do DBS problems. I guess that is because they have more PVR problems and we have more DBS problems (at least as far as HD is concerned).


Wait for the hr20-250. I'm sure we will be *****ing as much if not more as them then.


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## Robdec (Oct 3, 2002)

I just find it hard to beleive that we will not see any more HD channels till 2007. What a bunch of crap


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## GTO40 (Jul 25, 2005)

The lack of installed HD MPEG4 receivers & DVR in the marketplace is possibly why D* is conservatively waiting for early 2007. I would expect a large rollout once their new HD-DVR & Home Media Server meet a minimum installed subscriber base.


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## mssturgeon (Jan 4, 2005)

There will almost definitely be more HD channels on DTV this year. With National Geographic, HGTV, and Food Network already planning channel launches this by the end of spring, DTV has to expand their offering in order to compete with Dish. You better believe Dish will be adding more. DTV is already planning on adding National Network feeds in MPEG-4 to replace the West Coast networks this summer, but I can see where those don't necessarily count as "National HD Channels".

And did anyone read the article referenced in the first post? Nowhere in that article did LonghornXP say "Don't Expect any National HD channels to be added Until the First of the last 2 Satellites goes up in Early 2007". He said "Once 2007 comes around and the first of the last two satellites go up expect a massive increase in both HD picture quality and national HD offerings." Quite different statements.

My point is that there will likely be a number of new HD offerings this year, and DTV cannot afford not to keep up with Dish. However, that does not necessarily mean that these new HD offerings will be available in MPEG-2. DTV may decide to do the same thing Dish is doing: Adding any new HD channels in MPEG-4 only.

My $0.02,

- Shane


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## sp1dey (Jul 21, 2005)

I firmly believe there will be more channels this year... too many biggies coming on line. The question is at what expense. Personally, as much as I love my HD Tivo, I hope they add all the available channels, and add them in MPEG4. It's the direction they are going and our Tivos are on borrowed time anyway. D* has a limited time to wow me and might as well put all their cards on the table. If next year I'm still not pleased, hopefully the Series 3 Tivo is available and I'll jump ship. We all have options and might as well get the ball rolling. That being said, I won't upgrade to MPEG4 until the HD DVR is ready, even it if means I won't be able to enjoy an expanded HD pack... but I'd still rather know these channels are available.


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## jdk (Mar 15, 2001)

OK - you're correct. I want to reword my statement to say:

I don't belive we'll see any new Ka-MPEG4 national channels until 2007.

DirecTV will probably squeeze in a few channels on their current satellite positions - squeeze being the key word.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

Outdoor HD has been up and ITC since spring of last year. As well as one or two others that recently came online.


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## garywj (May 3, 2005)

I was told by 2 different D* Reps that they have been instructed to say that there will be no new nation wide HD channels on D* until 2007. Their are no plans to add PBS, WB or UPN to their local channels. They are spending the next year bringing on line their 1500 local channels which only include CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX. They are also busy putting D* on your Cel-Phone and doing anything other then adding HD channels.


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## Fluffybear (Nov 10, 2000)

It always amazes me how a RUMOR can so easily be taken as OFFICIAL WORD and cause such a panic. 

Let's see if I can add some more fuel (fun) to this rumor mill.

My wife works for Immigrationand recently cleared Steve Jobs & Rupert Murdoch back into the USA from an Ice Fishing Trip in Canada and she was told that Apple has an agreement to purchase DirecTV in 2007 and that Steve Jobs first act will be to discontinue carriage of all the Sports Channels in the 600 range and raise the price of NFL Sunday Ticket to $999 a year and that DirecTV will be releasing new DVR's in 2008 based on the Ipod..


Until it comes out in way of a Press release from D*, it is only a rumor and needs to be taken as such..


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## taj2 (Aug 18, 2003)

This will allow me to save $10 per month or get another movie package as thier is no point in paying for the HD package. It is a joke that DTV charges for those few channels.

I am also very concerned that I just paid for a HD Tivo and now DTV is going to a leasing program. I hope they do an equipment swap for all of us that ponied up money - aka most likely their best and most loyal customers.

DTV is really disappointing me ever since Rupert took over....


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

taj2 said:


> This will allow me to save $10 per month or get another movie package as thier is no point in paying for the HD package. It is a joke that DTV charges for those few channels.
> 
> I am also very concerned that I just paid for a HD Tivo and now DTV is going to a leasing program. I hope they do an equipment swap for all of us that ponied up money - aka most likely their best and most loyal customers.
> 
> DTV is really disappointing me ever since Rupert took over....


People keep calling the HD package overpriced. If the channels aren't worth $10.99, don't subscribe to them. If you're upset you can't have them without paying $10.99, then maybe they're worth $10.99.

There are other packages with fewer channels that cost more. The Cinemax movie package, for one. Many of the foreign language channel packages also cost more for just a few channels.

Before News Corp took over, DirecTV wasn't in a good place; they were doing very little; they'd just come off a lengthy period sitting around doing almost nothing for their future -- when the whole Dish Network merger was being proposed. Now, finally, they are doing quite a lot. And it just takes time for such massive changes to make it through the pipe to become services and products we can buy.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

Well, I'm one that does not think the HD package is worth $10.99, heck I don't even think it's worth the discounted $5.99. I plan to cancel mine this month. Movie channels are another waste of money IMO. They just don't have any compelling content and repeat the movies over and over. I don't sub to these now and have not in the past.



> Now, finally, they are doing quite a lot.


What exactly are they doing that is SO good. 
- They are dropping Tivo, coming up with their own hardware/OS and dropping the 30 sec skip, etc. 
- They are adding a bunch of mpg4 HD locals in cities where I don't live, or plan to move. 
- They over compress the current HD content. 
- They add more shopping and religious channels and turn them on in my channel guide. 
- They drop comercial free Music Choice and add XM with comercials.

Sorry, but I just don't see a lot of good going on here?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rmassey said:


> Well, I'm one that does not think the HD package is worth $10.99, heck I don't even think it's worth the discounted $5.99. I plan to cancel mine this month. Movie channels are another waste of money IMO. They just don't have any compelling content and repeat the movies over and over. I don't sub to these now and have not in the past.
> 
> What exactly are they doing that is SO good.
> - They are dropping Tivo, coming up with their own hardware/OS and dropping the 30 sec skip, etc.
> ...


It's all point of view, isn't it?

- They're embracing technology to enable moving video to other devices, including your PC and portable devices.
- They're adding HD locals for the entire country; there's quite a large num,ber of people who can't get one or more of their local HD channels over the air well.
- They're moving to new modulation and compression schemes that will enable more channels to be carried at better resolutions using less bandwidth.
- Shopping and religious channels are income producing for DirecTV; squeezing in an occasional new SD channel like that enables them to not pass on other cost increases to subscribers.
- They dropped Music Choice which basically is nothing more than an MP3 player in favor of XM where there's a more dynamic element to the music.

Unfortunately the scale of many of these things is so large that it can't happen that quickly. Do you think continuing a deal with TiVo would've brought MPEG4 and 8PSK receivers any sooner? Of course, it's not just MPEG4 and 8PSK, it's a slew of interactivity, too... like it or not, DirecTV wanted those capabilities and any new TiVo receiver would've had to have them too, taking time to create.

Before Murdoch, DirecTV was stagnating; they lost a minimum of a year of lead time by staying in the holding pattern with Dish Network. That was harmful. There's a lot changing now, we look at some of it as good and some of it as bad and most of it as taking too long. But it's better than it stagnating and nothing at all happening now and for the future, isn't it?

For us, as subscribers, it really is becoming a more competitive marketplace. We're gaining choices. DirecTV can't just sit on their collective backside and expect to stay ahead of the game.


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## taj2 (Aug 18, 2003)

I agree that the HD package is a matter of choice. My free trial period is set to expire and then I will cancel because it is not of value to me. I can not argue with those that feel it is worth it.

My issues are:
1. Recently bought HD Tivo and never received promised mail-in rebate - although it was in the mail for weeks. This is simply poor customer service.
2. If I just bought a $300 piece of equipment that is going to be out of date in a couple of months due to HD locals and rather than getting an equipment swap I get the choice of "renting" equipment - this is complete BS. I want to know what I get for the $300 I spent 4 months ago???
3. What is DTVs competitive advantage over cable companies now? It used to be great customer service (IMO), good technology (a la TiVo), the ability to buy equipment rather than pay $5 - 10 per month.

The only advantage I still see is that they have NFL Sunday Ticket which is primary reason many are with DirecTV. Note I did not say ALL.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

- They're embracing technology to enable moving video to other devices, including your PC and portable devices.

Tech is great, but I personally don't see big value with portable device. Other do, I don't 

- They're adding HD locals for the entire country; there's quite a large num,ber of people who can't get one or more of their local HD channels over the air well.

Slowly - I'm in DMA 93, it'll be the end of 07 before I see this affect me. And even then I can get it for free OTA.

- They're moving to new modulation and compression schemes that will enable more channels to be carried at better resolutions using less bandwidth.

Yep, I like this one, but again, it'll be '07 before they add any content that I qualify to subscribe to.

- Shopping and religious channels are income producing for DirecTV; squeezing in an occasional new SD channel like that enables them to not pass on other cost increases to subscribers.

That's fine, don't add them atomatically to my Ch I receive list. Don't cram them down my throat.

- They dropped Music Choice which basically is nothing more than an MP3 player in favor of XM where there's a more dynamic element to the music.

>>dynamic element<< Hmmm, debatable. I say not so good, which is why I just use my SqueezeBox to play my music.

The real point is that as a consumer, *I* find less and less content and delivery methods of interest to me personally. And yes, I will eventually follow the expected advise and vote with my wallet. Heck once I can get HD locals free via OTA, and I get past my current commit, I'm pretty much done with D*, especially if the T3, LG or a similar device comes out that is a resonable alternative to D*


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rmassey said:


> The real point is that as a consumer, *I* find less and less content and delivery methods of interest to me personally. And yes, I will eventually follow the expected advise and vote with my wallet. Heck once I can get HD locals free via OTA, and I get past my current commit, I'm pretty much done with D*, especially if the T3, LG or a similar device comes out that is a resonable alternative to D*


Ultimately that's what it comes down to.

I'm of the mindset right now that if I had an ATSC HD dual tuner TiVo I might very well buy two of them and cancel DirecTV completely. I do get everything over the air. While there's a few shows I do watch that are on cable networks, the cable networks are also faster to DVD in general. But in any event, it becomes a viable option.

So DirecTV's job is to find some compelling reasons for subscribers like us who might very well decide to just cancel once there are options we consider viable for our particular needs.

I do think they've gone off in the wrong direction; but obviously DirecTV believes this is what's needed to maintain their competitive edge. We'll see.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

Well put Doug. I agree with your assesment. Time will tell.


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## kidjay (Mar 30, 2004)

dswallow said:


> It's all point of view, isn't it?
> 
> - They're embracing technology to enable moving video to other devices, including your PC and portable devices.
> - They're adding HD locals for the entire country; there's quite a large num,ber of people who can't get one or more of their local HD channels over the air well.
> ...


Doug you should come work with us....good post


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## OldFantom (Aug 24, 2004)

Sunday Ticket is the killer app for me. Since I am not willing to live with the forced Houston Texans Game "choice", I will be an unwilling participant in D* HD "Rollout". But you better believe that if the NFL ever decides to move their Sunday Ticket package to another provider, I will be gone in a heartbeat. As the delay in the national rollouts increase, I have given real thought to dropping everything but Sunday ticket and piggy backing cable.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I heard a rumor that the Sunday ticket price is going up to $999 next year!  

But seriously. Even though they don't offer alot of HD I still like it better than only OTA HD. I have no desire to go back to just time Shifting OTA HD. I was doing that in 2001 and while it was great at the time it isn't enough for me anymore. I do feel I get my moneys worth from the HD package, what I don't watch much is Showtime HD and HBO HD. That is the only reason I pay for those premium channels yet I watch more Discovery HD, , Universal HD, HDNet, and HDNet movies than the premium HD channels.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

DirecTV used to differentiate themselves from cable by doing things differently.

Cable caught up, and passed DirecTV in programming and HD content.

DirecTV is responding by not quite matching cable (e.g. HD loocals, but only 4), and removing some differentiators (e.g. Tivo), and not adding any new differentiators.

And they still have the big wiring negative for many people (home runs, 4 cables from dish).

So they've fallen behind, and they're doing nothing to differentiate any more. They're just playing catch up, and their target isn't even to match cable, just get close.

Lame. 

2007 before we see another national HD isn't surprising. Probably around the same time the MP4 DVR will be released.


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## Mark W (Dec 6, 2001)

OK, so I read a few pages of the referenced thread over on the other site, and I see nobody saying anything about no more national HD until 2007. Am I missing information? If not, can someone please change the title of this thread!


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

dswallow said:


> People keep calling the HD package overpriced. If the channels aren't worth $10.99, don't subscribe to them. If you're upset you can't have them without paying $10.99, then maybe they're worth $10.99.


That's a good theory, but the problem is that as a DirecTV customer, there is no alternative. If I want *any* HD package besides DirecTV's, I pretty much have to throw the baby out with the bath water. The HD package is married to the SD package. As a DirecTV customer, I really have no choice; it's D*'s HD package or nothing. Sure, you're right; I can just say no, but I'm not saying no to HD, I'm saying no to DirecTV. That's the crux and that's why we consider it overpriced. THERE IS NO CHOICE, except to say goodbye to DirecTV.


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## rpfotog (Jun 1, 2004)

dswallow said:


> They're embracing technology to enable moving video to other devices, including your PC and portable devices.


They can embrace all they want, but Hollywood isn't going to allow this to happen without a huge fight. There have been USB and FireWire ports on DVR hardware for years but so far they've been completely crippled. In order to get your content off your TiVo and onto another device you have to jump through some serious hoops or settle for low quality. I'd love for this to change but I just don't see it happening soon.

I would LOVE to be able to plug my iPod into the TiVo and copy programs for travel. I know that there's a huge culture of thieves who get all of their software, music and video from Bit Torrent and the like, but I'm not one of them. I just want to be able to pay for my content and then put it on any of my devices. I don't want to pay DirecTV for the right to watch Lost and then pay the iTunes store for the right to watch it again on my iPod. That kind of BS forces regular people like me to learn how to be a criminal.

Rp


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rpfotog said:


> They can embrace all they want, but Hollywood isn't going to allow this to happen without a huge fight. There have been USB and FireWire ports on DVR hardware for years but so far they've been completely crippled. In order to get your content off your TiVo and onto another device you have to jump through some serious hoops or settle for low quality. I'd love for this to change but I just don't see it happening soon.
> 
> I would LOVE to be able to plug my iPod into the TiVo and copy programs for travel. I know that there's a huge culture of thieves who get all of their software, music and video from Bit Torrent and the like, but I'm not one of them. I just want to be able to pay for my content and then put it on any of my devices. I don't want to pay DirecTV for the right to watch Lost and then pay the iTunes store for the right to watch it again on my iPod. That kind of BS forces regular people like me to learn how to be a criminal.


Dish Network has the PocketDish already: http://portables.about.com/b/a/210602.htm

I haven't heard of anybody suing over it yet.

You also pretty freely are calling people criminals; there's no precedent to do that. If someone can receive a television show over the air free, or does subscribe to the channel it's on via cable or satellite, there is not yet any precedent saying they cannot download it to watch it themselves, or even much indication that the networks care about it happening.


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## rpfotog (Jun 1, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Dish Network has the PocketDish already: http://portables.about.com/b/a/210602.htm
> 
> I haven't heard of anybody suing over it yet.


Good point.



dswallow said:


> You also pretty freely are calling people criminals; there's no precedent to do that.


Uuuuh, yeah there is. I didn't say that _everyone_ is stealing content, but I know dozens of people who are, and they're completely impervious to any suggestion that it's wrong. I literally know herds of people who steal everything from Photoshop and Office to their entire music and video collections. They burn CDs and DVDs and share software without ever considering that someone isn't getting compensated when they do that. I know there are those of us who think that most people are inclined to do the right thing when it comes to acquiring content, and I used to think this way myself, but with every passing day I get closer to the other side of the see-saw. Outrageous prices are no justification for stealing. I can't go steal an SLR McLaren just because I think it's overpriced. The difference is that most people would agree that stealing a car is bad, but many, many of those same people would think nothing of ripping off an artist by copying their music or video.



dswallow said:


> If someone can receive a television show over the air free, or does subscribe to the channel it's on via cable or satellite, there is not yet any precedent saying they cannot download it to watch it themselves, or even much indication that the networks care about it happening.


While this is true depending on the use of the material and whether or not it's copy protected, that's not really what I was talking about. Virtually everything you watch on television, the internet or devices like the iPod and PocketDish is copyrighted material, and as such its distribution and rebroadcast is completely protected by federal copyright laws, the World Intellectual Property Organization and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Circumventing copy protection and/or rebroadcasting or redistributing ANY copyrighted content makes you a law breaker. That's not the same as moving a show from your DVR to your laptop so you can watch it somewhere else.

These acts of digital rights management circumvention and redistribution over peer to peer networks is what Hollywood is convinced it must fight. Basically, they wouldn't care if you copied their content for personal use, but they cite potential damage from its illegal redistribution as being more important than the rights and needs of those of us who don't steal. And I must say, we as a collective consuming public aren't doing much to cause them to think otherwise. I don't dig Hollywood, but I also wouldn't dig not getting paid for my creative work.

Jeez this is off topic for this thread, isn't it. Sorry. I think this is a fascinating topic and I like reading about it. Doug, I want to say that I have total respect for your level-headed, thoughtful insight. You're a great example for the rest of us.

best--

Rob Parker


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Only 344 days until we get new HD channels on DirecTV...


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## mssturgeon (Jan 4, 2005)

My guess is 10 more days. 

National Geographic is launching an HD channel this month. National Geographic is owned by (ultimately) Rupert Murdoch ... who also happens to own DirecTV. It does not make sense that he would pour money into launching an HD network with no plans to carry it on his own satellites. 

Common sense says DirecTV will announce carriage of this channel in early February, if not before. There's even space on either side of Discovery HD Theater (ch. 75 or 77) ;-). 

Disclaimer: All just a guess on my part. Not based on any insider information. 

Cheers, 

- Shane


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## alv (May 6, 2004)

If I were to guess with the price of the HD package decreasing, that means few if any new channels. I take it as a sign the rumours are true.


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## taj2 (Aug 18, 2003)

Title to this post needs to be changed!! I have seen no substantial proof from any of the posts that DTV is not rolling out any National HD channels. In fact, when I spoke to someone in retention last week she stated that customers could expect very aggressive rollout of HD. She indicated they never comment on launch of channels until they are ready to roll-out because contract negotiations, etc. I am going to be optimistic and expect to see some more HD channels by the end of Q1.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

taj2 said:


> Title to this post needs to be changed!! I have seen no substantial proof from any of the posts that DTV is not rolling out any National HD channels. In fact, when I spoke to someone in retention last week she stated that customers could expect very aggressive rollout of HD. She indicated they never comment on launch of channels until they are ready to roll-out because contract negotiations, etc. I am going to be optimistic and expect to see some more HD channels by the end of Q1.


You weren't suspicious that the CSR said (a) DirecTV never comments on upcoming channels and (b) to expect upcoming channels soon?


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## jdk (Mar 15, 2001)

I guess the nay-sayers (like me) were wrong - CD USA-HD is now on Ch 101.


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## taj2 (Aug 18, 2003)

dswallow said:


> You weren't suspicious that the CSR said (a) DirecTV never comments on upcoming channels and (b) to expect upcoming channels soon?


It wasn't that I took her word as gospel but I certainly have not read any previous posts under this topic that also lead me to believe that thier won't be any new HD until 2007!

The CSR never said there would be new HD in 2006 but indicated aggressive roll-out. Perhaps she is only referring to local HD roll-out.

dswallow, you seem to have a lot of optimism regarding DTV and I am just jumping on the bandwagon.....you seem to post reasonable things and so I figure there are worse people to follow.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

taj2 said:


> dswallow, you seem to have a lot of optimism regarding DTV and I am just jumping on the bandwagon.....you seem to post reasonable things and so I figure there are worse people to follow.


Funny, I think I'm rather pessimistic about it. I'm willing to wait and see mostly because it's not like there's an alternative available to me right now that's better. I will cut back my subscription if there's a price increase, though. Just to make a point. I could even live with over-the-air only, if necessary, though I have to keep my DirecTV account around at a minimal level to keep the DVR's working for that. But I don't need to stay at the top tier of programming. I've just chosen to, preferring to have access to everything when I want it.

I'm not very hopeful the new HD DVR will be a good thing. But I don't see it making much difference to me for quite some time -- OTA is more important than any HD cable channel, and the HD cable channels I consider important will be around in MPEG2 for a while longer. So there's time to give DirecTV the benefit of the doubt and to wait until there's a real product from which to form an opinion. And in the worst case, I need one MPEG4 HD DVR for the HD cable channels that aren't in MPEG2 -- a minimum number; OTA being just more important in that regard for my viewing needs.

The sky isn't falling; but there's not a lot of obvious positives taking place right now.


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## jdk (Mar 15, 2001)

I'm of the same mindset as you Doug. But in the internet world, posing a evenhanded assesement of a situation is so rare to see, it makes you a fanboy and cheerleader. Let me echo my similar sentiments, and see if it marks me too:

I'm not happy with recent trends at DirecTV, but two platitudes definitely apply:

1. As you said, "The sky isn't falling". I'm getting the same programming and using the same, perfectly functioning DVR I was yesterday, and will continue to do so for the forseable future. There's already too much on my Tivo (in HD even!) to watch per week, so I'm in no drastic need of any new programming to fill my unavailable extra time.

Sure, there's things coming down the pipes from DirecTV that I might not like: NDS DVR, MPEG4 big dish, leases... but they key words are "coming down the pipes". Once/if these things come to pass, I'll consdier them then. But for now, there's TV to watch.


2. "The grass isn't greener." We all love to ***** and moan (especially in the Internet space) about how "my provider" (DirecTV on this board) is - but take an objective look at your options. For me, there's no compelling reason to switch today as everyone else is offering basically the same thing - each with some minor plusses and minuses that all add up to the same. 

And still taking this high-level, objective look - isn't it interesting that once you add up every provider's service, price and programming, you get basically the same thing? To me that points to the wonder and efficency of a competetive market. Sure, we'd all love to get 100 HD channels through a 20 tuner, 2TB DVR for $10/month total and no upfront costs... but through a variety of technological, economic and competetive reasons - that ain't gonna happen today, regardless of how much we whine about it.

In closing, if today or any time in the future, you take an objective look (drop the "I hate DirecTV" mentality) and note a good reason to switch provicers- I have one sincere piece of advice: Do. 

'Cuz even if you think I'm a DirecTV cheerleader or fanboy - the minute I'm offered a compelling combination of better service and price from another provider, I'm going to take my own advice and switch in a heartbeat.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

jdk said:


> ...take an objective look at your options. For me, there's no compelling reason to switch today as everyone else is offering basically the same thing - each with some minor plusses and minuses that all add up to the same...


This is the one thing I can't agree with from your terrific post. The vendors are all about the same, yes, but only if you take Tivo out of the mix. There is no compelling reason to switch, but only because the obvious current leader has announced that they will drop back into the pack by doing exactly that...taking Tivo out of the mix.

Why is DTV the obvious leader, at least right now? Tivo is the one superlative that DTV has, IMO, and I am more than a little perplexed that they are shooting themselves in the foot by booting Tivo out the door. I have owned 9 different PVRs in the last 7 years from 4 different vendors, and only Tivo was significantly more stable and user-friendly than the rest. According to the forums, the ones I didn't own either didn't measure up either, went promptly belly up, or a little of both. Call me a pessimist, but I am not expecting that Tivo level of quality from NDS only because no one else has ever matched that level of quality to date. But then I hope they surprise the hell out of me.

First of all, its all about content. If a vendor can't deliver your favorite channels or programs, they're off the list. Once the content is about the same, and the service and the cost is about the same, its all about access to the content. That's what Tivo has always done far better than anyone else. DTV just leveled the playing field, and not in their favor.


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## jdk (Mar 15, 2001)

Please note they keyword "today" in my statement.

DVR service is an important part of my overall criteria.

Today, there's only one HD Tivo out there... guess which DVR & provider I have? (and one big reason why I don't have Comcast today, even though I can save some money with bundled internet service)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

A $2 increase for me isn't bad. Total choice with locals is going up $3 while the HD pack is going down $1 so only a net increase of $2. The increases take effect on March 1st.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

rmassey said:


> Well, I'm one that does not think the HD package is worth $10.99, heck I don't even think it's worth the discounted $5.99. I plan to cancel mine this month. Movie channels are another waste of money IMO. They just don't have any compelling content and repeat the movies over and over. I don't sub to these now and have not in the past.


Well, I called retention today to cancel HD. I mentioned that D* is really slow bringing new HD content (compared to Dish) to market. The rep immediately offered me free HD for 3 months, so looks like I'll stick around for a while. At least it's worth what I pay for it.....

Rep told me six new HD channels soon and 100 by end of the year. Yeah right. Whatever, They know they are slackin' and freely offer discounts and freebies when customers call 'em on it.

I also dropped down to TC from TC+ to lower my bill to the lowest service I can and keep my commitment, in protest to the March increase. Looking at the additional 20 channels offered in TC+, I honestly don't watch any of them. I think my kids might miss Toons and Boomerang for a few days and then adjust. Life goes on....

It's pretty sad that the lowest I can get my bill down to is $53 ($56 in March = TC + Mir+ DVR) with two Tivos on my account.

Bring on the Tivo Series 3 and FREE OTA HD.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Wow... you don't get it:

a) The CSR's know nothing.
b) Don't post what a CSR says, see (a)
c) Any new channels that are spoken about are HD locals, which only effect people in that market

We won't see any new national HD's for quite some time. I'll bet a diet-coke on it.

FIOS is poised to take over, if they can roll out fast enough.

Series 3 Tivo better come out soon - I need a change, badly...


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## pdawg17 (Mar 1, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Wow... you don't get it:
> 
> a) The CSR's know nothing.
> b) Don't post what a CSR says, see (a)
> ...


Too bad FIOS won't be available in my area (Bay Area, Cali)...it sounds like a great change of pace...my only other choice is Comcrap around here...I said I would never go back to them but...


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Wow... you don't get it:
> 
> a) The CSR's know nothing.
> b) Don't post what a CSR says, see (a)


More HD coming soon...They also pointed to a sign that said "Free Beer Tomorrow"


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## formulaben (Jan 27, 2003)

LOL...indeed.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> ...
> 
> FIOS is poised to take over, if they can roll out fast enough.
> 
> Series 3 Tivo better come out soon - I need a change, badly...


FIOS isn't going to be a viable choice for a large percentage of us anytime soon. It will take years before any one telco can wire all their customers with fiber. Some haven't even committed to doing anything towards that end and NONE of them will commit to doing all their customers.

I'll dream for telco fiber, but in the mean time I'm with you- TiVo cant get the series 3 done fast enough for me.


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