# Cablevisions War on TIVO/Cablecards



## jefny (Feb 13, 2008)

I just received a written notice from Cablevision that cablecard users will no longer get many HD channels (mostly from the old voom satellite) and they are pushing everyone to get their HD cable box. This is Cablevision's way of giving the finger to anyone using Cable cards and HD TIVO.

I did put a call into TIVO and they are aware of what's going on. Their belief is that Cablevision's actions are contrary to Federal directives. They are also working on some kind of work around that can be added to your TIVO HD box.

I am going to put in a complaint to the FCC (do a Google search for an address to complain).

John


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## bamachick19 (Mar 11, 2008)

Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20554

Here is a street address and there are also email addresses and phone numbers.

http://www.fcc.gov/contacts.html


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## jefny (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I did do a search and found a section to register complaints which I did on-line.

When I spoke to TIVO they felt they would have a solution before the changes by Cablevision go into effect (removal of VOOM channels for cablecard customers). It apparently has something to do with digital video switching which a few cable companies (such as Cablevision) are doing to try to cut out third party DVR's.

In my complaint to the FCC I phrased it as an attack on cable card usage.

John


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

It sounds like Cablevision is moving to Switched Digital Video (SDV). They aren't the only ones doing this. In any case, there is a device called a "Tuning Resolver" coming _hopefully _by 1st half of this year which should fix the issue. You can read about it here...

http://community.livejournal.com/tivolovers/609011.html

We also have a thread on SDV here...

SDV FAQ

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=357703&highlight=SDV

also see...

TWC Hawaii moving all HD to SDV

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=364085&highlight=SDV

and

TiVo confirms SDV dongle for 2Q 2008

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=375723&highlight=SDV


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## ITGuy72 (Aug 10, 2005)

Got the same notice today. Not really too sure what to think, they are certainly using it as a means to push their own equipment, but doing it at no additional cost for a year. The notice does not say when the change will go into effect. I have to say, the channels listed do not really affect me that much. I find the VOOM content to be somewhat repetitive and stale. Even so, I will be happy when the adapter is available to resolve this problem.


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## jefny (Feb 13, 2008)

The card that I received from Cablevision indicates that for the digital music channels the change is now in effect ("All of which are currently not available with your cablecard") but in actuality I am still getting these channels. As for the others (it appears to be the Voom channels) there is a 6/30 date when the offer of a free cable box for one year expires. Is this the deadline?

I originally had a lot of problems with the cablecards necessitating multiple technician visits. I can see why cable companies would love to get rid of cable cards. Just recently my pixilation and loss of signal issues were resolved and everything was fine until I received Cablevision's announcement.

I am sure that TIVO is aware that they must come out with the workaround (the "dongle") as their business model is being imperiled.

John


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

>>>I originally had a lot of problems with the cablecards necessitating multiple technician visits. I can see why cable companies would love to get rid of cable cards.

So, the reason that cable companies want to get rid of cable cards is because they don't train their technician to install cable cards. Interesting.

>>>I am sure that TIVO is aware that they must come out with the workaround (the "dongle") as their business model is being imperiled.

Tivo has no way to do this. The cable companies are coming out with the "dongles". They will be available when the cable companies want them to be available.

Al


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## Rolento76 (Nov 18, 2006)

Can I ask what town you are in? From my understanding, the switch to SDV for the Voom channels will not affect all areas that Cablevision services.


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

jefny said:


> I just received a written notice from Cablevision that cablecard users will no longer get many HD channels (mostly from the old voom satellite) and they are pushing everyone to get their HD cable box. This is Cablevision's way of giving the finger to anyone using Cable cards and HD TIVO.
> 
> I did put a call into TIVO and they are aware of what's going on. Their belief is that Cablevision's actions are contrary to Federal directives. They are also working on some kind of work around that can be added to your TIVO HD box.
> 
> ...


I would like to know what area you are in as well.
I am in Brooklyn, NY and I haven't gotten any such notices in my mail box. When I called CV to schedule a tech to swap 2 S-Cards with a single M-Card I inquired about SDV, and I was told that some international channels are SDV, and there are no solid plans at this point to move more channels to SDV.
And since my CC appointment was moved from last Sunday to today, I was told an actual CV technician, not a contractor, will be performing the install (my 2 S-Cards were installed by a CV tech as well), I will ask him if he has some input on this.


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## jefny (Feb 13, 2008)

I live in Flowerhill (the Manhasset section). It appears that Verizon has been approved locally to offer their FIOS TV services (to be approved by the NYSPSC March 19) and I wonder if there is any connection.

At present I am satisfied with Cablevision (they gave me a deal on the IO service to get HD content) but the loss of HD channels may push me to Verizon.

John

PS-the training of cable card technicians seems to be an issue. The first tech that walked through the door announced that this was the first cablecard installation he'd ever done. A nice guy but needless to say when he was finished the system was not working very well (missing channels, etc.). It took three installs to get everything right.


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## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

I don't think this is a war on TiVo. CV's own DVRs (SA8300's) can't record off SDV channels either right now and there's no ETA for a patch for those. Considering the way SA8300 development goes, we may get a way to record SDV channels before CV's own DVRs. 

CV deployed SDV a while ago. Their international channels and some sports stuff is on SDV so this isn't a recent development at all.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

VinceA said:


> I don't think this is a war on TiVo. CV's own DVRs (SA8300's) can't record off SDV channels either right now and there's no ETA for a patch for those. Considering the way SA8300 development goes, we may get a way to record SDV channels before CV's own DVRs.
> 
> CV deployed SDV a while ago. Their international channels and some sports stuff is on SDV so this isn't a recent development at all.


What? I am not in an SA area but I find it extremely hard to believe that SA DVRs can't tune and record SDV channels. An you provide any evidence or second source of this at all?


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## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

They can tune the channels but can't record from them if the box isn't left tuned to the channel. It's been discussed extensively on the CV YahooGroup which includes one of the CV executives

Here's a message referencing the issue from Wilt Hildenbrand:
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/cablevision_digital/message/62450

Wilt's page on CV's site:
http://www.cablevision.com/about/leadership/wilt_hildenbrand.jsp

He used to be an executive VP there and is now a 'senior advisor'


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Wow, how a bug like that can get out through the SA QA process is beyond me.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

ah30k said:


> Wow, how a bug like that can get out through the SA QA process is beyond me.


It wasn't a bug. It was a deliberate decison by CV to deploy SDV without delaying until their SA DVR was able to properly support it.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> It wasn't a bug. It was a deliberate decison by CV to deploy SDV without delaying until their SA DVR was able to properly support it.


Then that would have to rank up there on the list of absolute stupidest decisions of all time.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

If Verizon is an option, and you are talking about Fios, you should really consider it.

I've been using the Series 3 with Verizon for over a year now and they work very well together. Some people have had attenuation, the ONT overpowering the Tivo, but most report good fixes with attenuators. My installer tested for that on the original install and I never had problems.

Al


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## mbhuff (Jan 25, 2004)

I just ordered FIOS today because of this. Cablevisions mailout was very patronizing. Since I've tried their pathetic DVR, the idea that they are pushing the trade-in of cablecards for their DVR is laughable. I wonder how many customers FIOS will get over the next month because of this?


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

It's really a "war on DTV". Cable thinks they need more HD channels and SDV is one of the best ways to quickly add more HD channels.


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## jtseltmann (May 23, 2005)

I'm in Northeast NJ and just got my Cablevision mailing today...I hope this can get resolved without issue...though these channels aren't my favorites it would be nice to not have 'issues' getting all valid channels.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

Central NJ here and we got the postcard today.

We don't really watch these channels, so it's no great loss. However, if they start adding other channels that we do watch, we'll have to add our voices to the chorus.

deb


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-03/cablevisions-educational-sdv-initiative/


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

Grr, I posted this first but go no love 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=387595

But hey at least they are telling me that I can have one of their STBs for a year for free.

Too bad that does ZERO for my Tivo investment, plus the cablecard rentals, plus the 48 dollar MANDATORY truck roll to even get them installed.

Thanks Cablevision.

I really enjoy the voom channels too. One of my impulse channels to watch goes immediately to 777 MonstersHD. I'll miss the channel  as my Tivo's aren't going anywhere.


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## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

My post card showed up today. I hope the tuning resolver isn't too far down the road because right now it's not a problem but it will probably become one sooner or later. The VOOM channels were the perfect choice to be SDV'd however since I think their usage is probably pretty low.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I received the Cablevision postcard today and filed an email and FCC Web site complaint with the FCC. Since TiVo and the cable industry have agreed to a solution to the one way CableCard issue, my complaint is that until that solution is available to owners of TiVO S3 or HD units, Cablevision is discriminating against its consumers that elected to use CableCards.


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## UncleMonty (Aug 14, 2007)

To anyone who thinks that just because _they_ aren't effected...

If you have any interest in preserving your rights as a consumer, it would be best to be very vocal about this. Just because something doesn't effect your "favorite" channels, don't think they'll stop there. This is punishment for TiVo users, period. If they don't hear your voice raised against it, they'll just count you as a customer that supports their decision.


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## wjohna (Sep 24, 2003)

In addition to the $2 per CableCard Cablevision is charging me, they are also charging $1.50/month for Premiums on additional sets, even though the extra sets they are referring to are a 2nd CableCard in my Tivo HD.

Is anyone else charged this, or is it an error on Cablevision's part?


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## dubluv (Mar 3, 2006)

i got the postcard today, and am fuming. i had a chance to get fios with a free hdtv, but declined. had i known about this then, i might have taken advantage of verizon's offer. i only currently enjoy equatorHD, but as others have said, just because these voom channels are not your favorites, its only a matter of time before they use sdv on more channels. and why would we want to turn in one cablecard to get a stb? the box won't work with the tivohd or series 3, so in effect, they're taking away the ability to use our tivo's for what we bought it for.


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## Dunnie (Nov 2, 2007)

I too got my notice in the mail today. I am sick of this company strong handing its customers. They own what could be construed as an illegal Monopoly on media in this area. We have no other option for TV service. If VIOS was available here, they would be at my door tomorrow. I cant stand Cablevision ... this is the very same company that refuses to carry the NFL network because the NFL will not bow to their financial demands.

I saw no mention of a reduced cost to me for NOT allowing me to watch channels I currently am able to use. That at least would show that they have the customer in mind.

I sure am praying for Verizon to carry TV in my area.

c ya

D
___________


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

wjohna said:


> In addition to the $2 per CableCard Cablevision is charging me, they are also charging $1.50/month for Premiums on additional sets, even though the extra sets they are referring to are a 2nd CableCard in my Tivo HD.
> 
> Is anyone else charged this, or is it an error on Cablevision's part?


I pay the same monthly fees to Cablevision, $2.00 per CableCard and an extra $1.50 for the second HD tuner. FIOS is available in my area but it is almost impossible to understand their charges since they have at least three options just for Internet connections. I want to be able to give them a copy of my Cablevision bill and have them give me a price for the same type service.


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

Just got off the phone with the CV HD department - my area, Brooklyn NY, is not affected by the SDV switch  I will continue receiving the channels I am currenntly receiving. I am not sure if CV plans to add more HD channels, and if these will be introduced as SDV.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

JacksTiVo said:


> I pay the same monthly fees to Cablevision, $2.00 per CableCard and an extra $1.50 for the second HD tuner. FIOS is available in my area but it is almost impossible to understand their charges since they have at least three options just for Internet connections. I want to be able to give them a copy of my Cablevision bill and have them give me a price for the same type service.


It looks like triple-play for $109 with the 20/5 internet which is pretty much good for most users. Cable cards are an additional $3.99 each.

http://promo.consumerfiber.com/FiOS-Bundle

Of course, that doesn't include all the state and local taxes which can be pretty high. That's hard to get out of any of them.

Al


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

I'm in Central NJ and got the post card yesterday. Unless I'm reading it wrong, they are not offering a DVR free for a year, but a cable box - and to get it you need to trade in a cable card. Candidly, the loss of these particular HD channels doesn't bother me - I'm much more concerned about future channels and S3 compatibility. Keeping my fingers crossed the (hopefully) soon to be available dongle from Tivo will "solve" the problem.


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## urwathrtz (Jan 18, 2008)

jefny said:


> The card that I received from Cablevision indicates that for the digital music channels the change is now in effect ("All of which are currently not available with your cablecard") but in actuality I am still getting these channels. As for the others (it appears to be the Voom channels) there is a 6/30 date when the offer of a free cable box for one year expires. Is this the deadline?


Yeah, I get the Music Choice Channels too. Of all 15 Voom channels I usually only watch Gameplay. Still this sucks. I'm gonna to file a complaint.

On a side note I was in Best Buy in Poughkeepsie last night killing some time and I saw a brand new, still sealed in the box Series 3 sitting on the shelf. No price tag but I thought it was pretty cool to see it.


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## twassel (Feb 20, 2006)

When I got this card, I called Cablevision, and a tech told me that my TiVo would not be affected. However, considering the usual level of competence of CV's techs, I'll wait and see. No problems as yet.

{EDIT}

Further inquiry from Cablevision confirms the first tech was an idiot. I'm about to lose 15 of my 43 HD channels. Angry.


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## BladeZ (Mar 18, 2008)

Dunnie said:


> I saw no mention of a reduced cost to me for NOT allowing me to watch channels I currently am able to use. That at least would show that they have the customer in mind.


I am with you on this one. I honestly don't mind losing these particular channels if I am compensated accordingly. And a free STB for a year is NOT compensation. CV touts that their HD is "free" compared to Fios. Well the channels still have a value, and I feel I should at least get a $10 credit per month moving forward until such a time when there is a solution from either Tivo, CableLabs, or Cablevision.

Fios is not an option for me as I watch MSG HD (there are more reasons, but dont want to make this a fios bashing thread)


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

Any idea when TIVO will be coming out with their SDV adapter or how much it will cost?

Also, any idea if this will result in better HD quality if there are not as many signals being sent?


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

KJW said:


> Any idea when TIVO will be coming out with their SDV adapter or how much it will cost?
> 
> Also, any idea if this will result in better HD quality if there are not as many signals being sent?


Two great questions. And I don't think there's answers for EITHER unfortunately.

I'd love it if they'd stop bitshaving some of the HD channels as much, as watching some things results in SEVERE macroblocking...showing just how much some of the HD channels are compressed!

I would love it if they could max out the bitrate on HD channels as a result of this.

C'mon, don't give us all lemons cablevision. We would love some lemonade sprinkled in here somewhere.


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

KJW said:


> Any idea when TIVO will be coming out with their SDV adapter or how much it will cost?


The adapter is NOT coming from TiVo. It will come from the cable company.


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## Fran1r (Dec 11, 2007)

I got my card from Cablevision yesterday, and while we really only watch one of these channels, the whole thing really bothers me. I'm in one of the few towns with two other options, another smaller cable outfit or Verizon, but I'd hate to switch because I now have all three services from Cablevision (simplification plus a discount) and I had cablecards installed in my two Series 3's within the last 6 months, so I've got almost $100 invested in installation charges.

I'd like to send a letter or email complaining about this, but I don't really fully understand the issue in a way that would make my complaint sound intelligent. Could someone please put up some points that I could incorporate into a coherent communication or possibly post up what they actually sent?

Thanks.


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

dbenrosen said:


> The adapter is NOT coming from TiVo. It will come from the cable company.


I thought TIVO was offering the fix? Either way, it won't happend for a long while. Cablevision isn't interested in making it easier to use other equipment, and TIVO still hasn't fixed their buggy firmware from last November.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Got the card from cablevision today...found this on cv's website

http://optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...mUgZGlnaXRhbCBjYWJsZSBib3g*&p_li=&p_topview=1

looks like 4/15 is the cut off

"*CableCARD customers in Bronx, Brooklyn, Hudson, Newark, Elizabeth, Paterson will not be affected by this change and will continue to receive VOOM HD channels after April 15, 2008"


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Fran1r said:


> I got my card from Cablevision yesterday, and while we really only watch one of these channels, the whole thing really bothers me. I'm in one of the few towns with two other options, another smaller cable outfit or Verizon, but I'd hate to switch because I now have all three services from Cablevision (simplification plus a discount) and I had cablecards installed in my two Series 3's within the last 6 months, so I've got almost $100 invested in installation charges.
> 
> I'd like to send a letter or email complaining about this, but I don't really fully understand the issue in a way that would make my complaint sound intelligent. Could someone please put up some points that I could incorporate into a coherent communication or possibly post up what they actually sent?
> 
> Thanks.


your 100 bucks in installation is sunk costs.

Verizon has triple play that's usually 5 bucks cheaper a month then cable's.

They usually have free month, a free flat screen tv, or a big gift card for circuit city.

I'd RUN to fios and use that to communicate your annoyance to cablevision.

If you want to learn more there's a monster thread here about "SDV" or switched digital video. It's a sticky at the top of this forum.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You people who are complaining should complain *in writing* to the FCC, and possibly also send a copy (i.e. physically CC, which is where the term came from of course) to your local cable company.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

mattack said:


> You people who are complaining should complain *in writing* to the FCC, and possibly also send a copy (i.e. physically CC, which is where the term came from of course) to your local cable company.


For the lazy: Can you provide us with a link to get us started? I have no problem whipping out pen/paper or hitting the PRINT button and signing my name to the bottom. Just not sure where to send my complaint to, and if theres a nice boilerplate to base my letter on.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Fran1r said:


> I got my card from Cablevision yesterday, and while we really only watch one of these channels, the whole thing really bothers me. I'm in one of the few towns with two other options, another smaller cable outfit or Verizon, but I'd hate to switch because I now have all three services from Cablevision (simplification plus a discount) and I had cablecards installed in my two Series 3's within the last 6 months, so I've got almost $100 invested in installation charges.
> 
> I'd like to send a letter or email complaining about this, but I don't really fully understand the issue in a way that would make my complaint sound intelligent. Could someone please put up some points that I could incorporate into a coherent communication or possibly post up what they actually sent?
> 
> Thanks.


Here is the text of the email I sent to: [email protected]
Dear Sir/Madam:

I received a postcard today (copy attached) from my cable provider, Cablevision Systems (Optimum Cable Service) announcing that they will soon start discriminating against their subscribers that use CableCards instead of the High Definition cable boxes they provide at higher cost to the consumer.

It is my understanding, that legislation and FCC rules require cable companies to have lower cost alternatives to the cable boxes they presently lease to their customers. By modifying their service so that CableCard users have to turn in the CableCards and obtain a cable box they are not following the rules established by the FCC.

Very truly yours,​
I also visited the FCC Web site and filed a complaint under "Cable".

I can now switch to Fios, but all of their promotions require at least a two year contract. Except for this issue of SDV, Cablevision has provided good service to me. I'll wait until a Fios salesperson calls and I want to see an exact comparison of costs services from Cablevision versus Fios' offering.


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## mbhuff (Jan 25, 2004)

The FCC will do nothing. The mandate for cablecards has been interpreted to only apply to broadcast channels (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW, etc...) and doesn't even force the vendor to provide HD versions, only SD digital ones. If you read the various threads about SDV in this forum, you will find that many, many other people have complained to their FCC, their local franchise authority, their state boards, etc.., and the only success they have had was either in the case where their cable provider refused to provide cable cards or had moved all of their channels to SDV. Otherwise, the cable companies have ignored everything with no reprecussions.

BTW, the "tuning resolver" will have to be provided by the cable companies. There is no standard protocol for SDV, and each head-end operator can use different equipment. Since companies like Cablevision/Comcast, etc are amalgamations of smaller cable companies, even within a single business they may be using 2-3 different SDV technologies. Also, since the FCC hasn't mandated the "tuning resolver", the cable companies can charge anything they want to for it. Also, it won't be a "dongle", the early reports is that it looks like a standard set top box.


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## Carlos_E (Mar 12, 2007)

lqaddict said:


> Just got off the phone with the CV HD department - my area, Brooklyn NY, is not affected by the SDV switch  I will continue receiving the channels I am currenntly receiving. I am not sure if CV plans to add more HD channels, and if these will be introduced as SDV.


Cool. I'm also in Brooklyn.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

JacksTiVo said:


> Here is the text of the email I sent to: [email protected]
> Dear Sir/Madam:
> 
> I received a postcard today (copy attached) from my cable provider, Cablevision Systems (Optimum Cable Service) announcing that they will soon start discriminating against their subscribers that use CableCards instead of the High Definition cable boxes they provide at higher cost to the consumer.
> ...


send your complaint here also

http://www.state.nj.us/bpu/divisions/cable/


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## Philtho (Feb 10, 2006)

mbhuff said:


> The FCC will do nothing. The mandate for cablecards has been interpreted to only apply to broadcast channels (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW, etc...) and doesn't even force the vendor to provide HD versions, only SD digital ones.


The mandate was for an integration ban. Meaning that cable providers will need to use the same cable cards we use in our Tivos for their own set top boxes. Some companies got waivers to extend the ban, but some did not, like Comcast.

In the end, it isn't about what channels at all. It's about all boxes tuning in the same channels the same way.


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## joy_division (Nov 22, 2007)

acvthree said:


> It looks like triple-play for $109 with the 20/5 internet which is pretty much good for most users. Cable cards are an additional $3.99 each.
> 
> http://promo.consumerfiber.com/FiOS-Bundle
> 
> ...


I *SO MUCH* want to drop cablevision in favor of FiOS, but I called them today and the triple play comes out to $165 after the 1 STB, 2 digital adapters and 2 cable card plus tax. Oh, I would add the movies package (not HBO or premium). This comes out to MORE than I am paying for cablevision ($87) + Voicepulse ($15) and Fios internet ($40).

No way I am going for this until all HD channels become inaccessible. The digital adapters BTW are for TVs that you do not want an unsightly box like the kitchen or small office.

I asked about just getting TV added to my internet and it's still $97 for what I want, which is $10 more than cabelvision, and I get 20 more HD with cablevision.


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## kkevinl (Apr 15, 2002)

I got the card a couple of days ago. I am in Northern NJ, near Wayne and Oakland. It made me really nervous! I an really hoping there is a solution before they cut off the Voom stations.

If you haven't checked out Gallery HD, Rush HD and some of the others, they are really good. Picture is amazing and some of the extreme skiing and such on Rush is breathtaking and entertaining.


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## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

mbhuff said:


> BTW, the "tuning resolver" will have to be provided by the cable companies. ....Also, it won't be a "dongle", the early reports is that it looks like a standard set top box.


Here's a look at one of them: http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/0...port-for-cablecard-still-on-track-for-second/


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

BladeZ said:


> I am with you on this one. I honestly don't mind losing these particular channels if I am compensated accordingly. And a free STB for a year is NOT compensation. CV touts that their HD is "free" compared to Fios. Well the channels still have a value, and I feel I should at least get a $10 credit per month moving forward until such a time when there is a solution from either Tivo, CableLabs, or Cablevision.
> 
> Fios is not an option for me as I watch MSG HD (there are more reasons, but dont want to make this a fios bashing thread)


HD is free on FIOS too unless you are talking about a premium channel(HBO, showtime, Starz etc.). I'm not paying anything extra for my HD channels on FIOS


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## BladeZ (Mar 18, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> HD is free on FIOS too unless you are talking about a premium channel(HBO, showtime, Starz etc.). I'm not paying anything extra for my HD channels on FIOS


HD boxes are more money than SD boxes on Fios. I dont think the cablecard comes into play here.

Fios Packages


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

So, can someone help me understand the problem here?

It's a known fact that cable companies are in the process of implementing SDV. This change is being made so as to be able to complete with FIOS and DirecTV. There is a limited amount of available bandwidth for channels, and the implementation of SDV will allow more channels to be delivered.

THE PROBLEM LIES IN TIVO NOT BEING COMPATIBLE.

The current rumour is that the S4 TiVo will support SDV, so , when combined with a cable card, so there should be no problem. I don't think that it's in anyone's best interest for the cable co. to stand still, or to pander to the lowest common technological denominator.

That being said, if the channels are being removed WITHOUT a technological reason (such as what were dealing with here in Orlando, that is a different story. However, the fact that you're being advised AHEAD of time, and being provided an ALTERNATIVE, the onus has been put upon TiVo to provide a solution to *keep their product viable*.


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## BladeZ (Mar 18, 2008)

Okeemike said:


> THE PROBLEM LIES IN TIVO NOT BEING COMPATIBLE.


This is a Tivo community, but this is NOT a TiVo problem. What about my Sony CableCard DVR? What about the millions (ok, hundreds) of CableCard owners that just plug it into their TV's? Everyone who uses cablecard today will start being at more an more of a disadvantage.


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

BladeZ said:


> This is a Tivo community, but this is NOT a TiVo problem. What about my Sony CableCard DVR? What about the millions (ok, hundreds) of CableCard owners that just plug it into their TV's? Everyone who uses cablecard today will start being at more an more of a disadvantage.


Trust me, I'm not an apologist for the cable co (I'm in the middle of considering a lawsuit for what we're going through here in Orlando). The being said, however, why shoudln't the cable company have the opportunity to implement new solutions without fear of backwards compatibility?

In the case of the Sony television, that's a Sony issue. In order for SDV to work, there has to be two way communication. If your TV manufacturer doesn't support it, then you'll either find another TV, or use the cable co device. In that case, Sony will either need to innovate a solution to meet the technology, or be out-innovated by JVC, Pioneer, etc...

Think of it this way: 
Cell phones just went through this. If you had an analog phone as of a couple of months ago, you just got shut out. This was done to the benefit of everyone. It wasn't the responsibly of SamsungNokiaMotorola to make their old phone forwards compatible, rather, they produced new devices.

Another example would be the poor that guy that bought a $4,000 50" Pioneer Elite just 24 months ago. It's not HD, can't receive HD, sp he's screwed when it comes to getting any of this programming. It's a limitation of his device.

The key differentiator in your particular case is that the channels are being removed due to SDV. If the channels were being denied due to an _impending_ change, then I would take exception to that. This is what we're dealing with here in Orlando.

Don't get me wrong. In October, I dropped $600 on my S3, and dropped DirecTV to go to cable _specifically_ to I could get TiVo (this doesn't account for the money I spent breaking my DTV contract). Within six months, I lost a half-dozen HD channels, and am now locked out of the new channels that were added, and any new ones that will be added. I'm steamed, and considering going to OTA and an Apple TV.


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## Saxion (Sep 18, 2006)

Okeemike said:


> In the case of the Sony television, that's a Sony issue. In order for SDV to work, there has to be two way communication. If your TV manufacturer doesn't support it, then you'll either find another TV, or use the cable co device. In that case, Sony will either need to innovate a solution to meet the technology, or be out-innovated by JVC, Pioneer, etc...


Up until now, there has been no legal way for any manufacturer, except incumbent cable box providers to the cable industry, to manufacture a device with 2-way support. CableLabs would not provide a license to do so. The upstream protocols were locked down, and nothing could legally send anything upstream except the cable-company provided boxes. _That _is the problem...TiVo and others would _love _to provide 2-way capability and have been fighting the cable industry for years and years over this. It's the cable industry that is standing in the way of allowing true competition to their closed system.

Things are migrating toward a viable licensing model whereby equipment like TiVo would be allowed full control over the channel tuning user interface (including SDV support), while services like VOD and PPV would switch over to a cable company provided user interface when the user enters those modes of operation. But this is not yet settled, and it will be some time before this new system works out all the kinks. Until then, TiVo's hands are tied by the rope of CableLabs' licensing model.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Aero 1 said:


> send your complaint here also
> 
> http://www.state.nj.us/bpu/divisions/cable/


I also filed the following complaint with the NJ Board of Public Utilities as was suggested. The more we bring this issue to regulators attention the better we have a chance for a delay until the "tuner resolver" becomes available. I also sent a similar letter to Cablevision, just so they can't use the excuse that none of their customers complained to them.

"I received a postcard from Cablevison informing me that as a Optimum iO customer using CableCards, they intend to discriminate against me by limiting the number of channels I can receive as a user of CableCards. They have offered to provide a one year use of a cable box as an alternative but that is not satisfactory since I use two CableCards in my TiVo Series 3 HD DVR unit. The reason is and as Cablevision already knows, a cable box can not be used with this TiVo DVR model.

It is my understanding that the cable industry and CableCard Labs are working on a solution to the issue that is requiring Cablevision to remove the channels from CableCard users. It supposedly will be a tuning resolver box that will plug into the USB port of the TiVo DVR.

Why isn't Cablevision waiting for the release of this box prior to moving the channels?

If they make this service revision as stated in their postcard, then they should lower the rental fee for the users of the CableCard."


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## rcamille (Dec 24, 2002)

I just filed my complaint with the FCC.


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## ajlee7 (Dec 27, 2004)

I posted the same thing on yahoo groups

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/cablevision_digital/message/62466?var=1&l=1


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## RickyF (May 13, 2002)

Dear FCC:
I live in Weston, CT and am served by Cablevision's cable TV operations.

I received a postcard from Cablevison informing me that on April 15, 2008, as a Cablevision Optimum customer using CableCARD, Cablevision intends to discriminate against me by limiting the number of channels I can receive as via CableCARD. They intend to move their VOOM network channels to switched digital video (SDV) distribution so as to accommodate more HD channels. I applaud their dedication to more HD, just not the way they are accomplishing it by deteriorating my service.

They have offered to provide me a one year free use of a cable box as an alternative in a swap for one of my CableCARDS. That is not satisfactory since I use the CableCARD in my TiVoHD DVR unit. This is also not satisfactory because their cable box can not be used with a TiVoHD. So if I want DVR capability with the SDV channels I have to rent their DVR. This is both discriminatory and predatory behavior against TiVo and its customers. 

It is my understanding that the cable industry and CableCARD Labs are working on a solution to the issue that is the reason Cablevision wants to remove the channels from CableCARD users. It supposedly will be a device that will plug into the USB port of the TiVo DVR. It is my further understanding that solution will become available in the second quarter of 2008.

Cablevision should wait for the release and widespread availability of this box to its customers prior to moving the channels to switched digital video (SDV).

If they make this service revision as stated in their postcard, then they should lower the rental fee for the users of the CableCARD since they are offering me far less content.


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

This is a perfect consumer fraud class action lawsuit -- a dimunition in service with no accompanying reduction in price. Plus, predatory practices against 3rd party manufacturers, violation of FCC rules by requiring use of only Cablevision's equipment.

Where are all the plaintiffs' lawyers? This is a slam dunk.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

KJW said:


> This is a perfect consumer fraud class action lawsuit -- a dimunition in service with no accompanying reduction in price. Plus, predatory practices against 3rd party manufacturers, violation of FCC rules by requiring use of only Cablevision's equipment.
> 
> Where are all the plaintiffs' lawyers? This is a slam dunk.


Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner for the first mention of class action suit this week!!! Only 12:10 eastern time Monday. Not bad.

Yay!

KJW, please contact a lawyer and report back on your findings. Many would love to join you but need to have someone step up and actually take the initiative rather than blindly post about class action suits on web forums.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

VinceA said:


> I don't think this is a war on TiVo. CV's own DVRs (SA8300's) can't record off SDV channels either right now and there's no ETA for a patch for those. Considering the way SA8300 development goes, we may get a way to record SDV channels before CV's own DVRs.
> 
> CV deployed SDV a while ago. Their international channels and some sports stuff is on SDV so this isn't a recent development at all.


How odd. Even here in TW (heavily using SDV), the SA 8300 can tune and record all SDV channels by TW since it can perform 2-way communication to the head-end.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

KJW said:


> Any idea when TIVO will be coming out with their SDV adapter or how much it will cost?
> 
> Also, any idea if this will result in better HD quality if there are not as many signals being sent?


Tivo claims it should be available in Q2 2008 and that they expect it to be free.

Personally I think they're smoking crack.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I received a telephone call from a Cablevision representative the other day. My guess is that she was responding to a complaint I filed either with the FCC or the NJ public utility regulatory commission about SDV and CableCards.

She asked me what my concerns were and I explained that by moving channels to SDV I would not be able to receive them on my TiVo (S3). I asked why they could not wait until the tuner resolver was released, perhaps this quarter. She was very pleasant, but stated that it was a business decision by Cablevision to proceed at this time. I told her that it was discriminatory against CableCard users in that the intent of the FCC ruling was to give consumers choice versus the need to rent cable company STB.

She repeated that it was a business decision to make the change now. I told her that to please advise the management of Cablevision, that I now have a choice of cable TV, Internet and telephone service other than Cablevision, namely, Verizon FiOS and I too would make a business decision if they continue to remove channels to SDV.

It is unbelievable that the Cable Companies do not understand the competitive threat from Verizon FiOS or is it that there are too few CableCard users to worry about the impact on their business. My guess it is the latter.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm really starting to hate cablevision, and the frustrating part is that I have absolutely no choice in what service I use right now. I live in a basement apartment and the cable is not in my name, so I have to deal with what's there. Not only do CV's cards constantly crap-out, forcing me to reboot almost daily, but now this? While I can't say I'm a CRAZY viewer of these channels, I like Gameplay, Monsters, and Rave. And it doesn't even matter if I like them or not, as others have said, this is the beginning. 

I can't wait to move so I can (hopefully) get FIOS and be done with these morons. How do you reduce service but charge the same price? FIFTEEN channels taken straight out of the HD line-up is a huge number. 

I'm curious to see what the reaction is on the yahoo board, and if that guy Wilt who works for CV has commented. Gonna check that out.

EDIT: Wait, will I still get these channells once Tivo's fix is released? And someone give me a quick rundown of what this fix is/does? Is it something we'd have to pay for, and do you know around how much? Thanks...


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

JacksTiVo said:


> She repeated that it was a business decision to make the change now. I told her that to please advise the management of Cablevision, that I now have a choice of cable TV, Internet and telephone service other than Cablevision, namely, Verizon FiOS and I too would make a business decision if they continue to remove channels to SDV.


Great response and I am actually thinking about switching...does anyone know what would happen with an @optonline.net email address if I no longer have their service?


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Test said:


> Great response and I am actually thinking about switching...does anyone know what would happen with an @optonline.net email address if I no longer have their service?


Your Optonline email account would be closed. I suggest you first obtain a Google mail, Yahoo or other Web based email account so that you can notify others of your upcoming change in email service.


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## adamivie (Dec 13, 2007)

check out tivo.com/switched

Also,
on 1(877)for-tivo you can report the cable company to tivo tell them you received a letter from your cable company they should take down some info about your cable company

GoodLuck :0)


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

adamivie said:


> check out tivo.com/switched
> 
> Also,
> on 1(877)for-tivo you can report the cable company to tivo tell them you received a letter from your cable company they should take down some info about your cable company
> ...


Thanks for the information. The TiVo press release has been discussed extensively in the "sticky" forum on SDV. The problem is that no other substantive news or information has been released since Nov. 2007, so our options are now limited to complaining to our cable providers and regulatory agencies to try to persuade the cable companies to delay switching to SDV until the "fix" has been released.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

We got a 2nd postcard today. On 5/20 we'll lose TLC, A&E, E!, Sci Fi, truTV, Animal Planet, Travel Channel and QVC.

Now I'm really pissed...

deb


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

debtoine said:


> We got a 2nd postcard today. On 5/20 we'll lose TLC, A&E, E!, Sci Fi, truTV, Animal Planet, Travel Channel and QVC.
> 
> Now I'm really pissed...
> 
> deb


Are you serious? I could live without the other ones that were announced, but now it's getting down right rediculous... I watch all these channels. Has anyone using CV Hauppauge gotten these post cards? I live in a basement apartment and the cable is in my landlord's name, so I don't know if we've gotten them here or not.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Are you serious? I could live without the other ones that were announced, but now it's getting down right rediculous... I watch all these channels. Has anyone using CV Hauppauge gotten these post cards? I live in a basement apartment and the cable is in my landlord's name, so I don't know if we've gotten them here or not.


Yes, I'm serious. I, too, could live w/losing Voom. This time, they're not even HD channels. If Cablevision replaces these w/non SDV HD versions (Sci Fi HD, TLC HD, etc), it would be better. However, there's no indication of that so far.

For us FIOS isn't even an option, so this really bites.

deb


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

debtoine said:


> We got a 2nd postcard today. On 5/20 we'll lose TLC, A&E, E!, Sci Fi, truTV, Animal Planet, Travel Channel and QVC.
> 
> Now I'm really pissed...
> 
> deb


Cablevision? I just searched their FAQs and didn't see any mention of this...that would really be annoying. How can they do that? I can get all those channels even without cablecards or a cable box??? lame. When will tivo / cablevision or whoever is making that "dongle" finish it?

btw, I noticed that 4/15 came and went without any interruption of channels


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

debtoine said:


> We got a 2nd postcard today. On 5/20 we'll lose TLC, A&E, E!, Sci Fi, truTV, Animal Planet, Travel Channel and QVC.
> 
> Now I'm really pissed...
> 
> deb


My postcard just arrived and as I said to my wife, now I am really pissed, where will it end. I'll be calling Verizon Monday morning to transfer everything over to FiOS, i.e. cable, Internet and telephone. I just have this feeling that the "tuning resolver" hardware will be another box requiring a monthly fee. I pay Cablevision about $145 per month or over $1,700 per year and I would rather give it to another company.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

debtoine said:


> We got a 2nd postcard today. On 5/20 we'll lose TLC, A&E, E!, Sci Fi, truTV, Animal Planet, Travel Channel and QVC.
> 
> Now I'm really pissed...
> 
> deb


Guys, I'm pissed about the SDV stuff too as I'll be losing the voom channels, but DO NOT CONFUSE this latest postcard with SDV.

This is strictly a bandwidth reclamation project by ceasing to broadcast the analog versions of these channels. They are going DIGITAL only, not digital SDV.

You will still get them on your tivo equipped with cablecards.

Again, these channels are NOT going SDV.

Only if you have a "cable ready" tv without a rented cable box, will you lose them.

But yes, if you are paying for family cable and rent ZERO boxes, then and only then will you lose these channels (and they dont give you a discount of course).


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

blacknoi said:


> But yes, if you are paying for family cable and rent ZERO boxes, then and only then will you lose these channels (and they dont give you a discount of course).


What places in the Cablevision universe can you get the channels in question w/o a cable box or cable card?


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> What places in the Cablevision universe can you get the channels in question w/o a cable box or cable card?


Many places actually!

Here in north NJ we get 70+ analog channels with any cable ready TV. No cablebox needed.

Here's a scan of the flier if you have NO cable box presently










They are offering those customers a free cable box for a year.

If you already rent at least ONE cable box, you get no such offer.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I am accustomed to CV&#180;s large footprint in the NY area which seems to be all scrambled (except for the VERY basic ones) I am also accustomed to wasting money on their Knick tickets, but that is another topic.

However, I stopped using CV sometime ago in one of my homes which is in CV country. I have no regrets, just a DVD player, a TiVoHD and a hard drive I pack in a suitcase. Its time for a fancy HD SlingCatcher, no?


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> I am accustomed to CV´s large footprint in the NY area which seems to be all scrambled (except for the VERY basic ones) I am also accustomed to wasting money on their Knick tickets, but that is another topic.
> 
> However, I stopped using CV sometime ago in one of my homes which is in CV country. I have no regrets, just a DVD player, a TiVoHD and a hard drive I pack in a suitcase. Its time for a fancy HD SlingCatcher, no?


I know much of NY has been all-digital for some time. Those areas of course would not be getting these post cards due to the channels already being digital w/no analog simulcast.

All of our analog channels have been simulcast for a while now. I imagine that eventually we'll catch up to you ny guys and have no analog except for broadcast basic.

This is in cablevision's best interest (not the consumer of course) since they'll have more bandwidth and will make a lot more profit on renting STBs.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

blacknoi said:


> This is in cablevision's best interest (not the consumer of course) since they'll have more bandwidth and will make a lot more profit on renting STBs.


Why can´t providing more content be in the subscriber´s interest despite more profit for the cable co?

Will CV provide a couple cableCARDs free in lieu of the box?


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

blacknoi said:


> Guys, I'm pissed about the SDV stuff too as I'll be losing the voom channels, but DO NOT CONFUSE this latest postcard with SDV.
> 
> This is strictly a bandwidth reclamation project by ceasing to broadcast the analog versions of these channels. They are going DIGITAL only, not digital SDV.
> 
> ...


The wording on this recent postcard is ambiguous and thus my confusing this postcard with the Voom SDV move. Are they trying to force analog customers to start renting STB or is it their strategy to free up the analog bandwidth for more SDV offerings, or both? It is amazing how they treat their customers. In any event, I'll still give Verizon FiOS a call to see what they can offer.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

JacksTiVo said:


> Are they trying to force analog customers to start renting STB or is it their strategy to free up the analog bandwidth for more SDV offerings, or both?


Freeing up bandwidth used by analog channels is a step in the process throughout the cable industry of bringing new, vastly expanded (and hopefully truly innovative) service(s) which will revolutionize the delivery of content/info over the next few years.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

JacksTiVo said:


> Are they trying to force analog customers to start renting STB or is it their strategy to free up the analog bandwidth for more SDV offerings, or both?


'Probably both and neither. Those aren't the only two options, but freeing up bandwidth is the game. One analog channel takes up as much space as 12 digital SD channels or 2 HD channels and one SD channel. Even without SDV, that bandwidth could be producing a lot more revenue, both virtual and real. With SDV, that bandwidth represents perhaps 100 or more channels. Do the math.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> One analog channel takes up as much space as 12 digital SD channels or 2 HD channels and one SD channel.


...or 3 HD channels if you compress the crap out of them.

Just ask Comcast customers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008271


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

For those of you looking to move to FIOS, all the channels except for the local broadcast networks are digital only, requiring either an STB or CableCards. When I first looked into switching to FIOS, I would have needed to rent 3 additional STBs for the "cable-ready" TVs I was using. That is a sizable amount of money per month (percentage-wise). I figured I would reevaluate as CV moved channels to digital requiring a STB, and by next year when they go all digital the STB world would be equal.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I just signed up with Verizon FiOS. I received a two year fixed price at a lower monthly cost for faster Internet service, TV and phone services. Now I don't have to worry about SDV and any other roadblocks that Cablevision throws in front of us TiVo Series 3 or HD owners. Their goal is to make their customers use their DVR's and there is no better way to do it than to implement SDV prior to the tuner resolvers being made available.
(Edit- BTW they are also sending me a $200 AmEx gift card for signing up for 20/5MB Internet speed.)


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## Lrscpa (Apr 20, 2003)

This Sunday's New York Times Magazine section covered "green" issues. One thing it noted was the "carbon footprint" of cable set top boxes. That in addition to the higher power requirements of today's flat screen TVs vs. older CRT technology, will mean a 12% average increase in home consumption by 2013.

That alone should make the cable companies rethink their affinity towards the set top boxes vs. cablecards.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

>>>That alone should make the cable companies rethink their affinity towards the set top boxes vs. cablecards.

Why in the world would that make cable companies rethink STBs? Unless they are taxed based on electrical consumption or there is some other economic reason, that issue would never enter the equation.

If a consumer had a choice of STBs from many sources, then they could make economic decisions based on electrical consumption.

Al


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

JacksTiVo said:


> I just signed up with Verizon FiOS. I received a two year fixed price at a lower monthly cost for faster Internet service, TV and phone services. Now I don't have to worry about SDV and any other roadblocks that Cablevision throws in front of us TiVo Series 3 or HD owners. Their goal is to make their customers use their DVR's and there is no better way to do it than to implement SDV prior to the tuner resolvers being made available.
> (Edit- BTW they are also sending me a $200 AmEx gift card for signing up for 20/5MB Internet speed.)


We'd love to switch to FIOS. The problem is, we live in such a small town, that it's probably be years before it gets here.

deb


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

debtoine said:


> We'd love to switch to FIOS. The problem is, we live in such a small town, that it's probably be years before it gets here.
> 
> deb


We are in Manalapan, NJ. There is a Web site map: http://www.dslreports.com/gmaps/fios that may help you determine if it is installed or coming to your town in NJ by entering your zip code. Click on FiOS coming soon.
Ours was only activated about a month or so ago.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

JacksTiVo said:


> We are in Manalapan, NJ. There is a Web site map: http://www.dslreports.com/gmaps/fios that may help you determine if it is installed or coming to your town in NJ by entering your zip code. Click on FiOS coming soon.
> Ours was only activated about a month or so ago.


Thanks for the link. I checked, and no joy for us yet.

deb


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

I called Cablevision and I've been told that CC users will NOT lose the channels mentioned in that letter.

I'm not 100% sure I believe the rep or that she knew what she was talking about, but I have some hope she's right.

I could live without the ZOOM channels (still have 'em by the way), but I'd be really pi$$ed if I lost TLC, A&E and Sci-fi.

FIOS TV isn't available in NY, Town of Babylon yet though we're wired and I can get phone and internet now. I'd have to consider satellite if I lost that new batch of channels.

LH


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## urwathrtz (Jan 18, 2008)

leeherman said:


> I called Cablevision and I've been told that CC users will NOT lose the channels mentioned in that letter.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure I believe the rep or that she knew what she was talking about, but I have some hope she's right.
> 
> ...


I'm in upstate N.Y. and I haven't recieved the second letter. I switched from satellite to cable about 4 years ago. I liked the everything on one bill deal. I do miss my Direct TV.
Exactly, I can live without the VOOM channels, but please don't take away my TLC or A&E. Ehh we'll see what happens. Come on tuner resolver!
I figure that Cablevision is pissed at me because I got rid of HBO and a cable box, saving myself $25 a month.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I had sent an email to Cablevision, as noted in a previous post, advising them of my displeasure with the loss of Voom channels and their SDV conversion without an alternative yet available for CableCard users. I mentioned in the email that I would be calling Verizon FiOS today and after 26 years as a customer would terminate my service with Cablevision.

I received a call from Cablevision a little while ago and they said, "that the reason I was losing the Voom channels was because Scientific Atlanta was no longer supporting those channels on CableCards and it was beyond their control." Huh?

I politely thanked her for calling me and ended the call. At least they called me in regard to my complaint. There isn't anything better for us consumers than to have multiple suppliers competing for our business. Cablevision is so entrenched with their "I'm the only guy in town" thinking, that they haven't yet learned that a new provider with superior technology is going to eat their lunch.


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## twassel (Feb 20, 2006)

April 15 has come and gone, and my Series 3 has not lost the channels Cablevision (of Woodbury, NY) said I'd lose. Did it delay implementation of SDV, or am I missing something?


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

leeherman said:


> I called Cablevision and I've been told that CC users will NOT lose the channels mentioned in that letter.
> I could live without the ZOOM channels (still have 'em by the way), but I'd be really pi$$ed if I lost TLC, A&E and Sci-fi.
> 
> LH


You aren't losing TLC, etc., on TiVo as long as you have Cablecards. They are moving them off analog to digital, which means you need a STB or Cablecard to get them. They are NOT going to SDV.

If you have a TV with a coax cable connected directly to it (no Cablecard or STB), you will lose TLC, A&E, etc. on that TV. This impacts three TVs in my house.


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

dbenrosen said:


> You aren't losing TLC, etc., on TiVo as long as you have Cablecards. They are moving them off analog to digital, which means you need a STB or Cablecard to get them. They are NOT going to SDV.
> 
> If you have a TV with a coax cable connected directly to it (no Cablecard or STB), you will lose TLC, A&E, etc. on that TV. This impacts three TVs in my house.


My argument with CV is that the wording of the most recent letter is similar to that of the card they sent regarding the ZOOM channels ("...only available with a digital cable box..."). No specific mention was made of CCs, but it's clear that CV would rather rent boxes than CCs.

The wording is open to interpretation, though if CV's CSR is to be believed then you're correct that we won't lose those channels as long as we have a digital box OR CCs.

I have two sets which would no longer be able to receive those channels, however, since those sets are pretty much only used for Fox News, News 12, or TWC it won't matter too much.

Thanks!

LH


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

debtoine said:


> We'd love to switch to FIOS. The problem is, we live in such a small town, that it's probably be years before it gets here.
> 
> deb


Slightly different problem here - we're in Embarq (ex sprint) territory. They have zero plans for fiber to the home.

Hopefully SE cable won't screw us by migrating to SDV but I'm keeping a close watch.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Based on what I have read on other threads in the TCF about it being somewhat doubtful when the tuning resolver/tuner adapter/SDV dongle (or whatever it will be called) will be available this year, I am glad I decided to switch to FiOS.

I also find it interesting that a member got a poor response when complaining to the FCC. If the FCC doesn't care what SDV does to CableCard users, then what initiative will the Cable Companies have to even consider providing the tuner resolving devices when they become available. Cablevision and other cable providers have one goal and that is to rent their DVR's, not to satisfy TiVo or other CableCard users.


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## corners (Jan 25, 2005)

Am I the only one to notice that they're also throwing in the requirement of "io Navigator" for $5 per month? Yes, you can still use your cable cards, but you have to pay an additional $60 per year. Or you can pay $10 per month for ALL the digital channels.

Presumably the $5 shove-down-the-throat will make people look more favorably at the $10 shove-down-the-throat. Or they'll expect everyone to now get multiple cable boxes for their other TVs. Or both.

Feh, I'm inclned to skip their digital "upgrade" and just get the Sci-Fi shows I want off of bittorrent...



blacknoi said:


> Many places actually!
> 
> Here in north NJ we get 70+ analog channels with any cable ready TV. No cablebox needed.
> 
> ...


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

corners said:


> Am I the only one to notice that they're also throwing in the requirement of "io Navigator" for $5 per month? Yes, you can still use your cable cards, but you have to pay an additional $60 per year. Or you can pay $10 per month for ALL the digital channels.


I didn't see any mention of the io Navigator requirement on the postcard I received. Where did you see this mentioned?

Note that the ioNavigator requirement mentioned in the quote only applies if you don't already have an io Package and doesn't exist in all areas.


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## corners (Jan 25, 2005)

dbenrosen said:


> I didn't see any mention of the io Navigator requirement on the postcard I received. Where did you see this mentioned?
> 
> Note that the ioNavigator requirement mentioned in the quote only applies if you don't already have an io Package and doesn't exist in all areas.


It was on the letter I got. And of course I don't already have an iO package, otherwise this would be a non-issue. I just have the Family package and use my Tivo HD w/Cablecard to receive the "free" HD channels. Now they've not only reduced the value of my Family package by 5 or 6 channels, they're gonna force me to pay more to take iO Navigator on at least one TV.

Worse yet I won't be able to move the shows from those channels to my analog TiVo via Home Transfer...


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## StEvEY5036 (Jul 9, 2003)

Sorry to bump an older thread, but I am trying to make sense of what is being talked about.

I just canceled my Directv service and I'm moving to cablevision. The installation rep that I spoke with said that THD does work with cablevision (they want $45 to set it up) and that I need two S cards. She briefly mentioned something about the SDV adapter, but didn't say that I won't be losing any channels if I use my THD. She also spoke with her supervisor and he didn't have anything to say about SDV.. I haven't seen anything on this thread about cablevision customers losing channels due to SDV, so I will be able to get all channels when the tech comes to set everything up right?


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## Lrscpa (Apr 20, 2003)

StEvEY5036 said:


> ---Snip--- The installation rep that I spoke with said that THD does work with cablevision (they want $45 to set it up) and that I need two S cards. ---Snip---?


If you have the TiVo HD, then a single M card if available would be better (and more cost efficient), but I don't know if M cards are available in all areas.


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## StEvEY5036 (Jul 9, 2003)

Lrscpa said:


> If you have the TiVo HD, then a single M card if available would be better (and more cost efficient), but I don't know if M cards are available in all areas.


She said that they only do S cards. I had an M card when I used the THD with Time Warner up in Rochester and that worked great.


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## corners (Jan 25, 2005)

StEvEY5036 said:


> ...She briefly mentioned something about the SDV adapter, but didn't say that I won't be losing any channels if I use my THD. ... so I will be able to get all channels when the tech comes to set everything up right?


They are moving some of the HD channels to switched digital (mostly the music channels and the Voom channels, some of which are pretty nice). So yes, you will lose some channels until they have the adapter from Tivo available. I'm hoping it won't be for more than a month or three.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

StEvEY5036 said:


> She said that they only do S cards. I had an M card when I used the THD with Time Warner up in Rochester and that worked great.


Theyre currently only doing M cards in areas that utilize Scientific Atlanta CableCARDs (Areas of New Jersey). If you're in an area that uses NDS, they are still S cards.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

corners said:


> Am I the only one to notice that they're also throwing in the requirement of "io Navigator" for $5 per month? Yes, you can still use your cable cards, but you have to pay an additional $60 per year. Or you can pay $10 per month for ALL the digital channels.


The iO Navigation requirement does not apply for CableCARD customers -- only those customers that get a box. Also, this particular notice does NOT affect CableCARD customers -- the channels moved from analog to regular digital - not SDV. Your CableCARD equipped Tivo should have seen no change whatsoever from this action. The only thing it does affect are analog tuners..

The notice was a bit misleading, as it made no mention that CableCARD customers would be unaffected by it.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

twassel said:


> April 15 has come and gone, and my Series 3 has not lost the channels Cablevision (of Woodbury, NY) said I'd lose. Did it delay implementation of SDV, or am I missing something?


Here it is May 26th, and I am still receiving the VOOM channels on my Tivo, despite the postcard sent to me saying they would go -- Brookhaven system.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

RickNY said:


> The iO Navigation requirement does not apply for CableCARD customers -- only those customers that get a box. Also, this particular notice does NOT affect CableCARD customers -- the channels moved from analog to regular digital - not SDV. Your CableCARD equipped Tivo should have seen no change whatsoever from this action. The only thing it does affect are analog tuners..
> 
> The notice was a bit misleading, as it made no mention that CableCARD customers would be unaffected by it.


If they moved from analog to digital (meaning digital simulcast maybe)? then it could affect CableCard if your cable provider decides to set ALL digital channels to CCI byte=0x02 like Time Warner does. Because of TW use of digital simulcast, even our local broadcast "analog" stations are set to 0x02.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

m_jonis said:


> Because of TW use of digital simulcast, even our local broadcast "analog" stations are set to 0x02.


Sigh.

The pigopolists, like cable companies, telcos, and Microsoft, are incredible. They seem to go out of their way to be *evil*. In the long run the forces of "creative destruction" eventually prevail. But, as Keynes said: in the long run, we're all dead.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

m_jonis said:


> If they moved from analog to digital (meaning digital simulcast maybe)? then it could affect CableCard if your cable provider decides to set ALL digital channels to CCI byte=0x02 like Time Warner does.


But Cablevision doesn't.. And even if they did, it wouldn't affect the reception or rates, as is discussed in this thread.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

Here in Morris County NJ, SDV was implemented today  Just "searching for signal" on all the VOOM channels.

So long MonstersHD.... my favorite channel, I hardly knew you.


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## joejet (Mar 19, 2008)

On saturday 5/24 I too lost all of my Voom channels, (my favorite also was monsters HD).

I assumed it was a cable card issue (they have been flaky lately) and first tech wanted me to do all the typical crap (reset box, unplug TV ) despite the fact i told them all channels were coming in except the voom.

Finally a "specialist" called back to tell me that they switched those channels to "Digital" so i could get "better picture quality" and "more channels". I found that interesting in light of the fact that i was getting 15 LESS channels and blasted them for not giving me a new cable card or solution BEFORE they switched.

they offered me 1 year free cable box and sorry for the inconvenience. They offered no mention of SDV or any future "dongle"... I said i have no intention of using thier POS box, but to return the invonvenience, ship it to me anyway and i will use it for a doorstop.

What crap.

I live on Long Island - Cablevision is my Cable Provider...


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## Acerxz (Mar 6, 2002)

Just came back from vacationm and all my VOOM channels are gone. I really got used to RushHD and KungFuHD. This is no good.

Cablevision - Clifton,NJ


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## davidmcc (Jun 4, 2008)

twassel said:


> April 15 has come and gone, and my Series 3 has not lost the channels Cablevision (of Woodbury, NY) said I'd lose. Did it delay implementation of SDV, or am I missing something?


I don't have cable cards and the signal to my TiVo is basically shut off as of two days ago.


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## stoneharry (May 7, 2008)

RickNY said:


> The iO Navigation requirement does not apply for CableCARD customers -- only those customers that get a box. Also, this particular notice does NOT affect CableCARD customers -- the channels moved from analog to regular digital - not SDV. Your CableCARD equipped Tivo should have seen no change whatsoever from this action. The only thing it does affect are analog tuners..
> 
> The notice was a bit misleading, as it made no mention that CableCARD customers would be unaffected by it.


This thread is so confusing. Some people say this is a SDV issue, some say it is a switch to digital from analog and that a cable carded TIVO will work fine.

I sure wish I could decide who to believe.


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## Acerxz (Mar 6, 2002)

I have a cableards w/Tivo series 3 on one tv and a cablebox on another tv.

As of 2 weeks ago only the cable box gets the VOOM channels.
No VOOm on the cablecards.

I'm in Clifton, NJ.


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## Acerxz (Mar 6, 2002)

What can really be done about this. What happens if they choose to put Hbo or other main channels to sdv?


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## cableguy763 (Oct 29, 2006)

Acerxz said:


> What can really be done about this. What happens if they choose to put Hbo or other main channels to sdv?


HBO and other main channels are not candidates for SDV at all. You can pretty much guarantee that hbo is being viewed in every single service group at all times, thus eliminating any benefit that SDV would offer.


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

stoneharry said:


> This thread is so confusing. Some people say this is a SDV issue, some say it is a switch to digital from analog and that a cable carded TIVO will work fine.
> 
> I sure wish I could decide who to believe.


The VOOM channels were moved to SDV, meaning your TiVo (S3 or HD) with Cablecard(s) will no longer be able to receive them until Cablevision begins delivering the SDV dongle you hear so much about in other threads throughout this forum.

A&E, etc, channels are being removed from analog broadcasting and will only be digital. Your TiVo with Cablecard(s) will still be able to get this set of channels.


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## calaban9 (Aug 10, 2007)

I'm here in westchester, ny and lost my Zoom channels as well. Went to get their "free for a year" box and it turns out that you have to turn in your cable cards to get it. Obviously I didn't do that...


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## danschn (Apr 22, 2004)

calaban9 said:


> I'm here in westchester, ny and lost my Zoom channels as well. Went to get their "free for a year" box and it turns out that you have to turn in your cable cards to get it. Obviously I didn't do that...


Right. Cablevision is addressing their capacity constraints by making it sound like a bonus for their customers: "Free STB for a year", but leaving out "an expense for a lifetime".

At the same time they are jacking up rates 60% on cablecards, and encouraging people to turn them in, which means swapping out TiVo and swapping in the cable STB or DVR, for more expenses. That opens the door for more services, some admittedly that TiVo doesn't offer (yet, like HD on Demand) for still more customer revenues.

If I'm paying premium prices for cable video services (and I am) I should be able to buy good equipment I want, like TiVo, and have it work, or buy the crappy equipment they offer at a fair price. Instead, I'm forced to lease it through the nose, or give up function. Or both.

I should be able to buy a cablecard that works for $20, a no-frills QAM tuner for $50, and a Tuning Adaptor (dongle) for, I don't know, another $30 (since they're new). If these devices had open standards, they would have multiple manufacturers, useful functioning bells and whistles, and over the years prices driven very low.


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## calaban9 (Aug 10, 2007)

Ok doing a little research i found the following (some of this has been posted on this and other forums). I'm putting 2ish and 2ish together to get 4ish. If anyone sees some fault to my logic please let me know.

Cisco and Motorola have submitted their SDV boxes, and Tivo had submmitted their software changes (usb control of said boxes) to Cablelabs for certification http://gizmodo.com/391871/tivo-switched-video-tuning-adapters-appear-at-cablelabs.

This article is from May 18th.

Cablelabs runs their certification through "waves". Taking a look at their certification schedule we can infer:

The submission could have (unlikely) made the April 21 - 23 slot for submissions which would mean board certification on June 24 - 26.

Much more likely they made the CW61 Wave with submission due by June 12th...

Therefore we may expect to see the boxes sometime after the Aug 14th Board meeting. How long for cable carriers to distribute is anyone's guess.


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## RickyF (May 13, 2002)

I lost my Voom channels Saturday, June 21, 2008. I live in Weston, CT.

If I could get FiOS I would switch, but Verizon does not cover my part of CT, only AT&T. Uverse is not a good alternative, nor are Dish and DirecTV.

I am considering downgrading my Optimum subscription to give up HBO and other premium channels as a protest of the diminished service. I am also thinking about getting a Vudu or AppleTV box to replace a lot of the "lost" programming.

Watching TV is getting too complicated. Maybe I'll go back to reading.


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

calaban9 said:


> I'm here in westchester, ny and lost my Zoom channels as well. Went to get their "free for a year" box and it turns out that you have to turn in your cable cards to get it. Obviously I didn't do that...


not in No. NJ -- they gave me a free cable box for a year even though I have two cable cards in my TIVO. Probably know I'm looking for any reason to swtich to FIOS.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Yeah I'm in Pound Ridge, NY (Westchester) and lost my Voom channels recently - not sure of the exact date.

I too would switch to Fios TV in a heartbeat but it's not offered here yet. Internet yes, TV no. So hopefully soon as I'm not optimistic that CV will roll out the SDV dongle in either a timely or cost effective manner...

TM


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