# Sad to say leaving Tivo for Dish...



## nazz (Sep 1, 2003)

After having been an avid Tivo user since the beginning, I'm selling off my HD Tivo on eBay and making the switch to Dish. I have been with DirecTV for even longer than Tivo but the better picture quality and selection of HD on Dish has finally become too tempting and I'm making the switch Monday. I have watched the compression gradually take the wow out of my HD and I REALLY want MonstersHD on my screen. I'm anxious to play with the new 622 next week but it is sad to have to part ways with Tivo after loving it for so long. Though I haven't contributed too much to this site it has been great reading. Thanks for all of the info that has been shared here.

I have one last question if anyone could help. When I put my Tivo up on eBay should I be concerned about leaving the access card in it? It seems that people prefer to get them with the card but I'm a little concerned about any of my personal information that may remain on it.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

nazz,

Well, you'll probably miss TiVo to some degree. However, I also have a echostar dual-tuner HD box, and it isn't terrible. It isn't smart like TiVO, but it technically gets the job done. If you like the content available on Dish, you'll probably be happy with your move. 

DirecTV is going to make them get a new card, so I'm not sure about that. Someone else can advice, but you could ask DirecTV what to do too.


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## nazz (Sep 1, 2003)

Thanks for the reply, ayrton911.

It's good to hear that you've had both and are pretty satisfied with the other DVR.
I'm curious how much less smart it is. Does it have a season pass like capabilty with the ability to tell repeats from first runs?


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

ayrton911 said:


> DirecTV is going to make them get a new card, so I'm not sure about that.


That makes sense. DirecTV's recent corporate strategy directed towards driving away existing customers would appropriately be complemented by discouraging new customers.


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## wje (Jan 8, 2005)

nazz said:


> Thanks for the reply, ayrton911.
> 
> It's good to hear that you've had both and are pretty satisfied with the other DVR.
> I'm curious how much less smart it is. Does it have a season pass like capabilty with the ability to tell repeats from first runs?


Check on dbstalk.com; there's lots of info on the VIP622, including links to the user manual. It seems to do everything I'd want to do, and also has some wonderful features the HR10 doesn't have, such as PIP and *three* tuners.

I'm going to make the switch, too. I've been with D* for a very long time, but enough's enough.


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## Robert Spalding (Jan 12, 2001)

don't let the door....just kidding


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

nazz said:


> Thanks for the reply, ayrton911.
> 
> It's good to hear that you've had both and are pretty satisfied with the other DVR.
> I'm curious how much less smart it is. Does it have a season pass like capabilty with the ability to tell repeats from first runs?


No, from what I can tell (only had it 8 days), it does not do season passes with repeat detecting. I don't think it is smart enough to record 2 hours either, if there is some special 2 hour episode either. You'll have to manage it a bit more. I did have a Echostar SD PVR before it for several years. It was very similar. Not smart either, but I used it all the time, and it proved to be a good box. It is also fast. Since it isn't so smart, you don't sit around waiting for menus, recordings to start, etc. It is pretty fast.

So yeah, that is what I meant by it not being so smart. However, try not to let that get you down too bad. If you enjoy the Dish programming, then this receiver should at least take care of getting what you need recorded. I think the look and feel of the UI is pretty nice too. Hope to hear your reactions.


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## nazz (Sep 1, 2003)

ayrton911 said:


> No, from what I can tell (only had it 8 days), it does not do season passes with repeat detecting. I don't think it is smart enough to record 2 hours either, if there is some special 2 hour episode either. You'll have to manage it a bit more. I did have a Echostar SD PVR before it for several years. It was very similar. Not smart either, but I used it all the time, and it proved to be a good box. It is also fast. Since it isn't so smart, you don't sit around waiting for menus, recordings to start, etc. It is pretty fast.
> 
> So yeah, that is what I meant by it not being so smart. However, try not to let that get you down too bad. If you enjoy the Dish programming, then this receiver should at least take care of getting what you need recorded. I think the look and feel of the UI is pretty nice too. Hope to hear your reactions.


I'm going to miss the Tivo's intelligence. I'll need to be real careful about finales like Survivor and The Apprentice with the extra long episodes. I am really looking forward to the new Dish programming and will give the unit a workout on MonstersHD alone. I'm also very anxious to see the improved HD picture quality.
Thanks again for the feedback and I'll report back with my experience.


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## JfNebraska (Oct 2, 2001)

I have not heard the claims of improved HD quality on DISH. Can someone point me to a thread?


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## nazz (Sep 1, 2003)

I am up and running with Dish and the vip622 HD DVR. First impression was that HD without a doubt looks significantly better than DirecTV. Not only are there more HD channels but the difference is dramatic. My wife even went 'Wow!' when I showed her the HD compared to what we were getting with DirecTV. I think the SD even looks better on most channels.

I haven't had a lot of time to play with the 622 but so far I'm happier than I expected to be in comparison to the Tivo. I don't like the guide as much though I do really like the ability to see the video in the guide. The remote is easier to adapt to than I thought it would be and I'm already using it by feel. Setting up recordings is easy and the longer buffer is nice. I haven't found a way to switch back and forth between tuners like I did with the Tivo but I imagine it's possible.
I like the on-screen caller ID and 30 second skip. It feels really fast in comparison to the Tivo even after a clear and delete.

I think I'm going to be very happy with the switch and the improved picture quality is worth the trade alone.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

wje said:


> Check on dbstalk.com; there's lots of info on the VIP622, including links to the user manual. It seems to do everything I'd want to do, and also has some wonderful features the HR10 doesn't have, such as PIP and *three* tuners.


Well the HR10-250 has FOUR tuners -- two OTA and two DirectTV ones. The sucky thing about the 622 - besides it not being a TiVo - is that it only has *one* OTA tuner.

I think it's possible we might see DISH Network partner with TiVo. I sent a quick note to DISH Network (via this link ) to make it clear that I would switch to them if they partnered with TiVo. If enough DirecTiVo owners did the same maybe that might have have an effect.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

nazz said:


> I am up and running with Dish and the vip622 HD DVR. First impression was that HD without a doubt looks significantly better than DirecTV. Not only are there more HD channels but the difference is dramatic. My wife even went 'Wow!' when I showed her the HD compared to what we were getting with DirecTV. I think the SD even looks better on most channels.
> 
> I haven't had a lot of time to play with the 622 but so far I'm happier than I expected to be in comparison to the Tivo. I don't like the guide as much though I do really like the ability to see the video in the guide. The remote is easier to adapt to than I thought it would be and I'm already using it by feel. Setting up recordings is easy and the longer buffer is nice. I haven't found a way to switch back and forth between tuners like I did with the Tivo but I imagine it's possible.
> I like the on-screen caller ID and 30 second skip. It feels really fast in comparison to the Tivo even after a clear and delete.
> ...


Glad to hear you're more or less happy with the switch thus far. Well, if you're in single mode, you should be able to use the "Swap" button on the remote, to swap between tuners. If you're in dual mode (different picture on 2 TVs), you can't swap.

I usually prefer single mode, for the tuner swap *and* for picture in picture. However, sometimes I do need to output to another screen, and I use dual mode. You change by clicking the "mode" button on the physical receiver itself and then with the remote agreeing that you want to change mode.

I agree with you that DirecTV HD does not look very good in comparison to other providers.

Yep, told you it was fast. It stays that way too. It never slows down. Well, my dual tuner HD is only a couple weeks old, but my other Echostar DVR never slowed down.

Hope you continue to enjoy it.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

STL said:


> Well the HR10-250 has FOUR tuners -- two OTA and two DirectTV ones. The sucky thing about the 622 - besides it not being a TiVo - is that it only has *one* OTA tuner.
> 
> I think it's possible we might see DISH Network partner with TiVo. I sent a quick note to DISH Network (via this link ) to make it clear that I would switch to them if they partnered with TiVo. If enough DirecTiVo owners did the same maybe that might have have an effect.


I would really like to see this happen. I would hate to leave DirecTV because I've been getting distant networks, for eight years or so. However, TiVo & DishNetwork might be enough to pull me over full time. Particularly once I can no longer get all the HD I need with MPEG 2 box on DirecTV.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

ayrton911 said:


> I would really like to see this happen. I would hate to leave DirecTV because I've been getting distant networks, for eight years or so. However, TiVo & DishNetwork might be enough to pull me over full time. Particularly once I can no longer get all the HD I need with MPEG 2 box on DirecTV.


Use the link and let them know -- the more people that do this the better the chance Charlie gives in.


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## thumperxr69 (Mar 22, 2004)

nazz said:


> I am up and running with Dish and the vip622 HD DVR. First impression was that HD without a doubt looks significantly better than DirecTV. Not only are there more HD channels but the difference is dramatic. My wife even went 'Wow!' when I showed her the HD compared to what we were getting with DirecTV. I think the SD even looks better on most channels.
> 
> I haven't had a lot of time to play with the 622 but so far I'm happier than I expected to be in comparison to the Tivo. I don't like the guide as much though I do really like the ability to see the video in the guide. The remote is easier to adapt to than I thought it would be and I'm already using it by feel. Setting up recordings is easy and the longer buffer is nice. I haven't found a way to switch back and forth between tuners like I did with the Tivo but I imagine it's possible.
> I like the on-screen caller ID and 30 second skip. It feels really fast in comparison to the Tivo even after a clear and delete.
> ...


Well Nazz I went the other way about 2 years ago. OK on the positive side the guide is very fast and the quality is better w/ E* but to me D* still has the edge for me because you cannot beat the HD-TiVo. The intelligence and grace built in is unmatched. *YES* you can setup quasi-season passes with E but it is so hard and non-intuitive it is totally discouraging. I helped a friend of mine with them about 4 months ago. I am really holding out for some relief when MPEG4 comes so can get the bit rate boosted on the HD channels. :up:

T


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

STL said:


> Use the link and let them know -- the more people that do this the better the chance Charlie gives in.


Cool. I wrote them. It would be a dream come true. For sure. So silly that DirecTV already has the dream, and they have to ruin it.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

nazz said:


> . It feels really fast in comparison to the Tivo even after a clear and delete.
> 
> I think I'm going to be very happy with the switch and the improved picture quality is worth the trade alone.


Same here with a switch to comcast!! FAST and better sd and hd pq not to mention more HD channels! HDTivo at one time was the best but that was then - this is now!!!


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

fastep said:


> Same here with a switch to comcast!! FAST and better sd and hd pq not to mention more HD channels! HDTivo at one time was the best but that was then - this is now!!!


I'm looking down that dark path myself, just waiting for the CC/TiVo box that is due in June. DTV stinks when it comes to HD.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

I'm also in the middle of the switch to Dish. Still learning the Vip622 but so far so good. More HD and some nice features (and yes I'm a Tivo die-hard fan/supporter). DirecTV dropped the ball and they are starting to pay for it.......

Funny thing is D* customer retention told me thier firewall blocked dishnetwork.com so they couldn't verify any of reasons for changing. I was trying to get a cheaper package like Dish family to keep my HD-Tivo OTA tuners alive. Also pointing out the 20+ HD channels..... Classic D*


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## kkluba (Oct 18, 2002)

Nazz - sell it with the card. It'll make it worth make and an easier sell. I've sold a few boxes over the years with cards and there is nothing to worry about. Just make sure that you contact Directv and cancel the subscription and verify that you don't get programming on that box and card anymore and you'll be fine.


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## newsshooterderek (Nov 13, 2001)

Just wondering...won't the new D system be just as good as Dish, PQ wise, when it rolls out? Isn't that what we're all waiting for?


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Probably, but why wait for D* was my thinking? I've been waiting for 6.x on the HR10 for over a year (yes they told me the receiver would get the update). When is the new D* HD DVR really gonna be available? Will they have 20 + national HD channels? 

Who knows...........I sure can't believe anything D* says anymore. Also with D* or Dish one will have to go to a non-tivo DVR for MPEG4 so again no reason to stay with D*. I was tired of waiting so I made the move.....


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

newsshooterderek said:


> Just wondering...won't the new D system be just as good as Dish, PQ wise, when it rolls out? Isn't that what we're all waiting for?


This is unlikely at the moment. Dish Network made a commitment to stop the transmission of "Hd-Lite" DirecTV has made no such comment. As a matter of fact I believe that I have read that DirectTV intends to use the extra bandwidth that the MPEG4 compression will offer in order to push more channels (SD or otherwise) down to it's customers. And of course at the moment they continue to push down some of the worse HDTV signals out there.

I was ready about a month ago to jump ship to dish too, but their receiver sounds like it does still have some issues and I am also waiting to see what comcast does in this area once they take over adelphia, I can wait, though I am getting wrestless.


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## txfeinbergs (Mar 21, 2004)

Bah! The TIVO was/is over-rated (at least the HR10-250 - and that is because of DirecTVs fault and not TIVOs for not letting the v6.2 SW out). 

You will go through some early learning curves on the VIP-622, but having made the change recently myself, I can easily say it is a superior box (probably because Dish stole all of the good stuff from TIVO, and then added a faster processor and a bunch of other features missing from the HR10-250. You can even cook your dinner on top of it (the unit runs VERY hot - but mine has not crashed once or missed a recording).

(Sold my HR10-250 for $350 on ebay).


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

With the 622 only having one OTA tuner, it's not an option for me. I need two OTA tuners. That being said, everything I have read about it says it's rather buggy compared to a TiVo -- even the HR10-250.


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## newsshooterderek (Nov 13, 2001)

Is it really unlikely that the PQ of D will not match that of C or Dish? I love my Tivos, but the reason I spent the $ on the HDTV was to get the best PQ I could get.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Even if the Vip622 has bugs, at least Dish will address them.

Look at their SW versions and release dates. 
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp

I haven't had any problems yet but I'm sure I will eventually with the Vip622. Also keep in mind that this is(at least) Dish's 2nd generation HD DVR. With D* you have a 1st gen HD-tivo followed by a 1st gen D*NDS HD-DVR. Talk about chances for bugs.

I still have one HD-Tivo activated with minimum package to keep up on on OTA. Plan to replace it with a Series 3 when available. Nothing wrong with liking both HD variety/PQ and Tivo. It's too bad D* screwed up........


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## cdjay (Feb 4, 2004)

I had never heard anyone mention that Dish Network had greater picture clarity until I read this thread yesterday, so I researched it on the net this morning. It's not easy information to find, but I came up with a message board thread where a gentleman had switched from Dish to DirecTV and had the following opinion:

_"The good news is the brightness level on DirecTV is good, meaning that gray actually looks gray (not black) and black is not cut off. So that's an improvement over Dish Network. With DirecTV, you don't lose detail in the picture due to the 
brightness being too low. Now the bad news . . . the picture on DirecTV isn't as sharp as it was on Dish Network. Watching DirecTV is like watching TV through a haze. The picture quality on DirecTV is just a tad "fuzzy". To me, it looks like the picture you get when you run a 1280 LCD monitor at 1024 resolution."_

For those of you who had looked at both signals on the same TV, how much would you agree with his assesment?


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

cdjay,
He is probably referring to SD not HDTV. But even SD is better on Dish than DirecTV. HDTV should be even more noticiable because of the severe compression and reduced resolution that DirecTV is pushing down.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Cnet's review of vip622 looks very positive. I may end up a dish customer after all !!

http://reviews.cnet.com/Dish_Network_ViP622/4505-6474_7-31778299-2.html?tag=nav


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## jmet (Dec 26, 2005)

STL said:


> With the 622 only having one OTA tuner, it's not an option for me. I need two OTA tuners. That being said, everything I have read about it says it's rather buggy compared to a TiVo -- even the HR10-250.


Keep in mind that the V622 records three things at once instead of two and the reciever can get HD locals unlike the H10-250.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

STL said:


> With the 622 only having one OTA tuner, it's not an option for me. I need two OTA tuners. That being said, everything I have read about it says it's rather buggy compared to a TiVo -- even the HR10-250.


You say that as if the HR10 were "buggier" than other Tivos. In my experience, my two HR10's are at least as stable as my other Tivos have been.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

cdjay said:


> I had never heard anyone mention that Dish Network had greater picture clarity until I read this thread yesterday, so I researched it on the net this morning. It's not easy information to find, but I came up with a message board thread where a gentleman had switched from Dish to DirecTV and had the following opinion:
> 
> _"The good news is the brightness level on DirecTV is good, meaning that gray actually looks gray (not black) and black is not cut off. So that's an improvement over Dish Network. With DirecTV, you don't lose detail in the picture due to the
> brightness being too low. Now the bad news . . . the picture on DirecTV isn't as sharp as it was on Dish Network. Watching DirecTV is like watching TV through a haze. The picture quality on DirecTV is just a tad "fuzzy". To me, it looks like the picture you get when you run a 1280 LCD monitor at 1024 resolution."_
> ...


I can't comment on HD, having left DISH before getting it, but for most of 2005 I had SD DBS service from both DISH and DirecTV, and compared them very closely. I also have made my living for a few decades by making critical judgments of video on a professional engineering level, so I have a frame of reference as to what to look for. That being said, I could not disagree more with that quote.

In my experience, the resolution/softness of the picture, as well as brightness levels, chroma levels, and grey-scale levels, was virtually identical, channel to channel. There was a slight overall look to one service that was different from the other, however. Video from DISH had slightly more contouring, or quantization error noise, while video from DTV had slightly more mosquito noise. These are probably due to arbitrary choices in compression technique as envisioned by two different engineering departments. But by and large, the compression artifacts on both were about the same level of severity, and it was actually surprising that the services looked more similar than they did different.

After watching them side-by-side for a day or two, they are so similar as to be nearly indistinguishable. In a blind comparison I could probably tell you which service was which, but I would have to look long and hard for the evidence, which will not be that visible in casual viewing.

One area where they do differ, however, is in the SD LIL. The actual fact of the matter is that DTV picks up most channels by direct fiber from the station TOC, while at least some of the channels from DISH are received OTA. That means that it is a good idea to check a friend's reception on LIL in your area before commiting, if SD LIL is important to you.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

frankygamer said:


> Even if the Vip622 has bugs, at least Dish will address them...


As a DISH survivor, and someone who has lived through DISH "addressing" PVR bugs, I can tell you that having a new up rev every month that breaks more than it fixes and occasionally wipes out your hard drive is NOT AT ALL preferable to the approach Tivo has taken, which is to up rev very infrequently, but to never break anything when they do and to actually provide new features.

DISH sent a bug fix every few weeks, usually never accompanied by feature updates, but amost always accompanied by some sort of pain for their subscribers. Tivo doesn't send bug fixes because it works them out in testing and rarely if ever has bugs that need a bug fix. When they do send an up rev, it is usually significant and usually adds features. Personally, I would rather wait for good software than endure poor software with regular "fixes" that make we want to plant my foot in someone's keister.

Pioneers quite often get the arrows in their backs, but the eventual settlers are the ones that end up owning the land.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

And then there's D* that provides no updates and removes features. Remember Tivo is on version 7.2.2. D* is on 3.x for the HR10. DirecTV 6.x is really Tivo 4.x Lite. 

While I'm only a new Dish subscriber, I'll take my chances. 

I guess to each their own...I'd rather have company trying to improve their product then sticking with the status quo. The 23 HD channels don't hurt either............


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## Syzygy (Aug 17, 2000)

I too sent an email to EchoStar, to let them know I'd switch from D* if there was ever a TiVo/Dish PVR. Thanx for the link.


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## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

Ok. Heard back from DishNetwork today. They were quite annoying:

first reply back from them:

"Actually ...the DVR units we provide are far superior than TIVO. It has the same features the only thing that separates our DVRs from TIVO is that our DVR can be controlled in two rooms and you can record up to 100 hours of recording time."

so I then replied saying how incorrect they were to say Echostar beats TiVo, etc. explaining experiences I've had. They wrote bak with this...

"Just trying to let you know about the advantages of our DVR models, but if youd like to defend a product that may not be as good as ours, then rest assured your suggestions will reach our administration. "


So there you have it!


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

frankygamer said:


> And then there's D* that provides no updates and removes features. Remember Tivo is on version 7.2.2. D* is on 3.x for the HR10. DirecTV 6.x is really Tivo 4.x Lite...I'd rather have company trying to improve their product then sticking with the status quo...


I'm not sure where you are getting that perception from. DirecTivos have had regular updates, and each usually adds features and never removes them. Granted, they are few and far between, but they are also stable and not a frantic reaction as a part of damage control, which is how E* updates are usually regularly delivered.

Comparing what Tivo standalones do is irrelevant, and only proves that Tivo is constantly improving its product, even though the improvements seen in standalone Tivos are not really significant compared to the features DTivos already have (and you pay dearly for standalone Tivo service, comparitively). It is DTV alone that stands in the way of upgrades to DTivos, and since they are the ones that answer the phone, not Tivo, that is understandable to a large degree. But the HR10 and SD DTivos have had regular up revs with added features, and if there were bug fixes, they were invisible to 99% of subscribers. In three years I have yet to see a feature removed from a DTivo via an up rev, so I can't understand where that concept is coming from, either.

I guess DISH's tendency to release system software prematurely, have their paying customers alpha-test it, and then fire off useless up revs from the hip every other week could be spun as "a company trying to improve their product", but that would carry a lot more weight if all of those "improvements" actually added up to something in the same league as Tivo, who only releases proven products and up revs, rarely if ever needs a bug fix, and already pretty much works the way folks want the product to work from the original incarnation.

My impression of DISH PVRs and the engineering behind them was that they were in way over their heads, regularly released obviously-flawed PVRs prematurely, and tried to vainly and hamhandedly fix the problems after the fact with frantic up revs, which were more akin to them bailing water on a sinking ship, because their programmers had not a clue how to fix those problems. And I've seen DISH regularly break or remove existing features.

But as you say, to each his own. If you've already drunk the Kool-Aid, no one can help you.


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## wje (Jan 8, 2005)

TyroneShoes said:


> I'm not sure where you are getting that perception from. DirecTivos have had regular updates, and each usually adds features and never removes them. Granted, they are few and far between, but they are also stable and not a frantic reaction as a part of damage control, which is how E* updates are usually regularly delivered.


Uh, right. Very few and very far in between. Just when did you see the last HR10 update? Oh, right. It's perfect. I forgot. Guess it doesn't need any updates.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

From your lips to God's ear.


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## txfeinbergs (Mar 21, 2004)

Tyrone, the HR10-250 constantly locking up , missing the first few minutes of recordings, and crashing continuously is the #1 reason I left DirecTV for Dish. Granted it only started doing this after the first year of use, but having to do a Clear and Delete where you lose your logos every year to keep the thing running isn't exactly what I would call a "stable" product. I have read enough posts on this board to know that many many of us early adopters have run into this problem with the HR10-250, all around the same time (about a year after use).


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

I'm the Kool Aid drinker?


> Comparing what Tivo standalones do is irrelevant, and only proves that Tivo is constantly improving its product, even though the improvements seen in standalone Tivos are not really significant compared to the features DTivos already have (and you pay dearly for standalone Tivo service, comparitively).


Check my past posts. Its taken me a very long time to reach my conclusions (~6 years with D*). And as I said, I'm new to Dish, but am willing to give it a shot. Did I mention 20+ HD channels  My issues are strictly with D* and not Tivo. I even picked up a SA just to see what features I've been missing out on and am now using it with a 2nd Dish Receiver.

But anyway, what feature updates has any DirecTV Tivo really received since D* took ownership from Tivo? I sure miss the days when Tivo controlled the Series 1 DTivo's and not D*. Do you remember them? Especially, when the added Tivonet/Turbonet support.

The only feature updates I can think of since is support for 72.5 and folders for SD units. Whoopee! The SA Tivo costs have to be higher since they can't provide guide data via satellite. Also what feature does a DTivo have that a SA doesn't? Dual tuners is it. I really wanted to wait for Series 3 but I need sports programming only available on sat.

As for D* not being able to (or affording to ) accept tech support for the SA features is garbage. Guess what the NDS receivers are going to have? Home Media Center! Many (All) of the feature the SA Tivo supports today (as could the Dtivo's). They are even calling their video extraction "DirecTV2Go". Boy that sounds familiar. I guess the SA features are not so insignificant as you say.

One feature D* took away (even before I knew it was there) was the ability to see the resolution of the current channel. They removed it because it made it too easy for people document the declining D* HD PQ.

BTW, I didn't know you could get on the internet running windows 3.11. I assume thats what you have, since it has all the features you'd ever want in a PC.


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## frankygamer (Mar 19, 2002)

Also your description of the Dish DVR's sounds a lot like the reviews I've read of the NDS DVR's. If your right, all satellite DVRs will be junk in the next 2-4 years.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Any of you with the vip622 also have Vonage? Wondering if they work together.

Also, the Dish site seems very confusing. Do you actually own your box, or are you just renting it? I was looking to just go somewhere (like Best Buy for instance) and grab a box, hook it up myself, and watch TV. But I get the impression (maybe incorrectly) that someone has to come out to hook it up.

Thanks for any info.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

frankygamer said:


> I'm the Kool Aid drinker? Check my past posts. Its taken me a very long time to reach my conclusions (~6 years with D*)...Did I mention 20+ HD channels  My issues are strictly with D* and not Tivo.


Check mine. I was with E* for over 8 years. All I'm referring to is that sometimes people fail to use logic or carefully weigh all factors before jumping ship. A sure sign of that is to ignore the obvious that folks post here and other places specifically to help you not fall into that trap.

Did you mention that out of thoses 20 HD channels, there is precious little watchable content beyond the 9 or so that DTV offers, or that to get all 20 you pay a further premium?

My issues were strictly with DISH PVRs, not their DBS service, which is fairly equivalent in almost every way to DTV. I would never have left DISH for DTV over the service, but Tivo was a major upgrade, making it a no-brainer.



frankygamer said:


> But anyway, what feature updates has any DirecTV Tivo really received since D* took ownership from Tivo? I sure miss the days when Tivo controlled the Series 1 DTivo's and not D*. Do you remember them? Especially, when the added Tivonet/Turbonet support...


 Ooooooo! Now there's a drool-inducing feature. "Took ownership"? I don't know what that means, unless you are referring to their plan to also release their own PVRs. The way folks here are whining about not having it on the HR10, I'd have to say that 6.2 was pretty significant according to them, regardless of your personal feelings, or mine. I still take the position that there is little that needs fixing on DTivos. When we get 6.2, that will just be extra gravy on top.



frankygamer said:


> ...The SA Tivo costs have to be higher since they can't provide guide data via satellite. Also what feature does a DTivo have that a SA doesn't? Dual tuners is it...


 And THAT, is probably the most significant feature anyone could want.

What about how the guide is delivered would possibly make it more expensive by telephone? 12.99 minus 4.99 gives them 8 bucks to phone home for 2 minutes using a system that the infrastructure is already in place for and paid for. The reason the fee is less with DTV is because DTV delivered a lot of subs, gave them high visibility for an excellent product emblazoned with their logo in a universe of tech-oriented customers, and allowed them to produce a PVR without the cost of an MPEG encoder or the licensing costs that go with that, compared to SA. Tivo had a choice, turn their backs on the DBS crowd (allowing someone like Replay to sneak in) or set a loss-leader price and still increase both profits (or at least slow the bleeding) and the perception of their image by expanding their customer base into an area otherwise untapped. Smart for Tivo then, smart for DTV then. Now, it's smart for Tivo to convert those subs to SA subs, if they can.



frankygamer said:


> ...As for D* not being able to (or affording to ) accept tech support for the SA features is garbage. Guess what the NDS receivers are going to have? Home Media Center! Many (All) of the feature the SA Tivo supports today (as could the Dtivo's). They are even calling their video extraction "DirecTV2Go". Boy that sounds familiar. I guess the SA features are not so insignificant as you say...


I hope you are not saying that D* being reluctant to accept tech support for SA features is garbage because they will provide similar features, because that is not a valid reason. They are reluctant because it will increase tech support call volume if it is not implemented right, which is the central reason why upgrades are delayed. The fact that they will add those features to their own box is beside the point. The features are a natural evolution in either platform. They want it right in their own platform, too, (good luck) for the same reason. But the fact that it will evolve on both platforms is inevitable. The particulars of the timing do not support your position.

I have yet to hear any reasons why these features are so great. The features that Tivo has, such as the SD DTivo features, the basic Tivo interface with SPs and WLs, and dual tuners seem like really desirable features that everyone seems to either really love, or really wish they had. Interactivity, interconnectability with a home network, portability, all the rest, they all seem either very minor or insignificant to the great majority of folks who are really just looking for a great PVR experience. The rest are all niche features for a small audience, and none of them really adds anything. Maybe that's why they're niche features with a small potential audience.



frankygamer said:


> ...I didn't know you could get on the internet running windows 3.11. I assume thats what you have, since it has all the features you'd ever want in a PC.


 I guess that's a shot, isn't it? It would be really effective if it applied. Unfortunately for your example, I only use PC's when I'm forced to, as the MAC OS, even in its darkest days, has always run rings around what everyone else uses or has ever used. Which is why I otherwise use it exclusively. Which is also why I use Tivo exclusively. Your witness.


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