# Modern Family | "Mistery Date" | 2012-11-14



## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

yes Mistery. not Mystery.

The Phil storyline was hilarious...

and the mural.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

P.S. They're hash browns.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

A step back after last week's hilarious episode, but still better than any other comedy on television. Phil's storyline stole the show. 

He's been on a roll


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I loved that in the second Bar Mitzvah, Luke was the one being hoisted up on the chair. 

"Makes it easier to give up my office."


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## Deathmyth (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi, i have a question. Phil said "I have a third showing at that colonial". What does it mean?


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

Deathmyth said:


> Hi, i have a question. Phil said "I have a third showing at that colonial". What does it mean?


He is showing a colonial house to someone for the third time.


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## Deathmyth (Nov 15, 2012)

scsiguy72 said:


> He is showing a colonial house to someone for the third time.


Thank you so much!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I really liked that they broke the couples up and had them interacting but without the partners around. I think it added some depth to the family. 

I really enjoyed the man to man or rather dad to dad talk that Mitchell and Jay had about giving up the office. It was great to see them share some time together.

Phil and Matthew Broderick were a hoot! 

Luke and Manny are a team!

Didn't get the whole Alex and Claire bit. I thought that was going to end with them both enjoyed the waterslides.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I didn't like how they basically undid the Manny story line in the closing kicker. Seemed cheap to me.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

aindik said:


> I didn't like how they basically undid the Manny story line in the closing kicker. Seemed cheap to me.


I agree


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I don't think they did - found girl, went to photo booth, got a little to cozy and she bailed. The end.

I loved Luke in the booth, first making faces, trying to kiss Manny and then that face at the end - perfect!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I thought the episode was really good, but I couldn't get over the over-casting of Matthew Broderick in that role. It just seemed odd.

I also couldn't get over how small Matthew Broderick's nipples were.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Are they looking for a Matthew Broderick spinoff with this character?


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

busyba said:


> I thought the episode was really good, but I couldn't get over the over-casting of Matthew Broderick in that role. It just seemed odd.
> 
> I also couldn't get over how small Matthew Broderick's nipples were.


With the right haircut and dye, Sarah Jessica Parker could pass for Phil


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> I didn't like how they basically undid the Manny story line in the closing kicker. Seemed cheap to me.


Yep.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

aindik said:


> I didn't like how they basically undid the Manny story line in the closing kicker. Seemed cheap to me.


How so?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

busyba said:


> I also couldn't get over how small Matthew Broderick's nipples were.


Scary, but I thought the same thing!!!!!!!


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Didn't get the whole Alex and Claire bit. I thought that was going to end with them both enjoyed the waterslides.


I don't think it was meant to be especially funny. It just was. There wasn't really any resolution to it beyond what they showed. Alex disqualified herself and Claire had absolutely no way to fix it. It wasn't until that point that Claire realized how important Alex's success was to her (Claire).

I've been Alex. More recently, I find myself becoming Claire. There is a seductive draw towards living vicariously through your children and seeing their accomplishments as your own. It's weird and it's even weirder how natural it feels.....

It's also a completely, utterly, horrible feeling to realize that your child has screwed up beyond your ability to fix. Again, it's a completely natural thing and something that WILL happen, but you feel just awful.....and it becomes YOUR failure.

The waterslide wouldn't've fixed anything because it's not something that Alex enjoys. She's happier doing Academic Challenge.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

aindik said:


> I didn't like how they basically undid the Manny story line in the closing kicker. Seemed cheap to me.


I would have liked this much better if it was just a bunch of happy pics of Manny and the girl, leaving us all wondering what might have been....


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> How so?


They did a sweet story about how he finally got a girl to pay attention to him, but they didn't want it to have any lasting effects on future episodes, so they flushed it. But they did it without any dialog in a throw away segment after the meat of the episode was over.

Ever since DevDogAZ posted that story about how Levitan and Lloyd basically work on separate episodes separately (a la Lennon and McCartney in the post Sgt. Pepper years), I can't stop thinking that everything weird about this show is a result of that. I feel like one of the guys wanted the Manny storyline and the other one didn't, so this was their compromise. That's obviously just a guess on my part.


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## Jayjoans (Jan 23, 2003)

The Mitchell actor continues to be the weakest link on this show. Those one on one interview segments were horrible. Without Cam to play off of, he is unbearable.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

aindik said:


> They did a sweet story about how he finally got a girl to pay attention to him, but they didn't want it to have any lasting effects on future episodes, so they flushed it. But they did it without any dialog in a throw away segment after the meat of the episode was over.
> 
> Ever since DevDogAZ posted that story about how Levitan and Lloyd basically work on separate episodes separately (a la Lennon and McCartney in the post Sgt. Pepper years), I can't stop thinking that everything weird about this show is a result of that. I feel like one of the guys wanted the Manny storyline and the other one didn't, so this was their compromise. That's obviously just a guess on my part.


Hmm. I guess I could see it that way, but I didn't at the time, and still don't, really. It seemed like a perfectly natural progression to me. Manny has always been overly romantic and full of grand gestures, and he got a little too cozy. I just looked at it like, at least this one worked better than most. 

I don't think I saw that Levitan/Lloyd article. Can anyone point me to it?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I don't think I saw that Levitan/Lloyd article. Can anyone point me to it?


I think this is the one I saw at the time.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...-4-sofia-vergara-julie-bowen-371246?page=show


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Jayjoans said:


> The Mitchell actor continues to be the weakest link on this show. Those one on one interview segments were horrible. Without Cam to play off of, he is unbearable.


Really? I'd rather have Mitchell than Cam.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Cam has gradually gotten more tolerable of late, and I agree that Mitchell (along with Manny) is now the show's weakest link.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> I think this is the one I saw at the time.
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...-4-sofia-vergara-julie-bowen-371246?page=show


Yep, that's the one.

According to the article, Lloyd has the even-numbered episodes this year, and this was episode 8. The article also says that Lloyd tend to write more with his mind while Levitan writes more with his heart. So that could explain why this little "victory" for Manny was immediately flushed with what some might consider a humorous series of pictures. I'll bet Levitan would have treated that with a little more emotion.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Hmm. I guess I could see it that way, but I didn't at the time, and still don't, really. It seemed like a perfectly natural progression to me. Manny has always been overly romantic and full of grand gestures, and he got a little too cozy. I just looked at it like, at least this one worked better than most.


That sounds familiar....smeek!  I think this is exactly how they wanted us to see it. He had progressed further with her than anyone and who knows what will happen with the next gal.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

aindik said:


> P.S. They're hash browns.


OMG-so funny!

"Weren't you listening during Uncle Menachem's speech?"

I don't get the hate for Mitch-I LOVE him! He was trying to help his father out, but is still struggling with his childhood (and adulthood) demons...I liked those scenes. And the result was sweet. They had a nice talk.

Phil and his "date" on the couch...
"That's close"
"Time out"
BA HA HA!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Matthew Broderick has always setoff gaydar. And I have no gaydar.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So did Claire realize that Alex threw it on purpose?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> So did Claire realize that Alex threw it on purpose?


Did we get any indication of that?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Polcamilla said:


> I don't think it was meant to be especially funny. It just was. There wasn't really any resolution to it beyond what they showed. Alex disqualified herself and Claire had absolutely no way to fix it. It wasn't until that point that Claire realized how important Alex's success was to her (Claire).


I think I zoned out at the beginning.. How did Alex disqualify herself? I thought Claire did something (was talking to someone else in the audience?) and Alex simply messed up.

I did like the Alex answering all of the questions under her breath thing during the Alex/Claire discussion.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did we get any indication of that?


Of which part? It's pretty clear to me that Alex threw it, for whatever reason.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

mattack said:


> I think I zoned out at the beginning.. How did Alex disqualify herself? I thought Claire did something (was talking to someone else in the audience?) and Alex simply messed up.


She got her first question wrong ("Who wrote The 95 Theses?", she said John Calvin).

I didn't think there was any indication one way or the other as to whether Alex got it wrong on purpose. She could have just got her Protestants mixed up.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

mattack said:


> I think I zoned out at the beginning.. How did Alex disqualify herself? I thought Claire did something (was talking to someone else in the audience?) and Alex simply messed up.


You hear a (faint) question and answer underneath Claire's chatter, a buzzer, then Claire says "Woo! Alex!"

Alex goofed on her own. I got no vibe that she did it on purpose. She showed up immediately to rant at her mom because her mom was cheering her failure and she was upset and needed to blame/yell at someone.


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## The Spud (Aug 28, 2002)

getbak said:


> She got her first question wrong ("Who wrote The 95 Theses?", she said John Calvin).
> 
> I didn't think there was any indication one way or the other as to whether Alex got it wrong on purpose. She could have just got her Protestants mixed up.


It didn't occur to me until it was brought up here that she might have thrown it. On the other hand if she knew enough Reformation history to answer John Calvin, it's unlikely that she wouldn't have known that the correct answer was Martin Luther.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

First, in the confessional, Claire said that she wanted Alex to lose so that Claire could go on the waterslides, but "don't tell." Alex has always been the most self-aware of all of the characters. She sees things as they really are. If Claire "secretly" wanted to Alex to lose, then Alex knew that.

Second, not only is Alex self-aware, she obviously very smart and academically gifted. She doesn't get answers wrong. When she and Claire were having that conversation towards the end, she was answering every single question that we heard in the background under her breath. "Martin Luther" was an _easy_ question. There is no way she would have gotten that wrong.

For whatever reason, she answered it incorrectly on purpose.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> First, in the confessional, Claire said that she wanted Alex to lose so that Claire could go on the waterslides, but "don't tell." Alex has always been the most self-aware of all of the characters. She sees things as they really are. If Claire "secretly" wanted to Alex to lose, then Alex knew that.


Which is why betts4 thought it would end with them having fun together on the waterslides. I think it would have made more sense as well.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

It would have made for a nice mother/daughter STRESS free scene. And maybe manny and luke could be off trying to pick up girls at the waterpark.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

mattack said:


> I did like the Alex answering all of the questions under her breath thing during the Alex/Claire discussion.


To me it was a shoutout to Kevin Bacon in Diner:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wXkItoqHew[/media]


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> With the right haircut and dye, Sarah Jessica Parker could pass for Phil


 Phil doesn't look like a horse.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

...and what was with Cam, not figuring out that HE was one of those canceling out at the very moment gaybrod was telling him about it over the phone?


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> ...and what was with Cam, not figuring out that HE was one of those canceling out at the very moment gaybrod was telling him about it over the phone?


There is no way Cam would ever have thought that Phil was the guy Broderick was talking about. So of course there was no way Cam would think he and Mitch were the cancelling friends.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

I loved the scene when Phil was on the phone with his family in the car and the joke was about him not being very bright, "you should hear yourself". Also at the very end when Broderick kissed him and he was confused and the moment going up the stairs when he got it.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Second, not only is Alex self-aware, she obviously very smart and academically gifted. She doesn't get answers wrong. When she and Claire were having that conversation towards the end, she was answering every single question that we heard in the background under her breath. "Martin Luther" was an _easy_ question. There is no way she would have gotten that wrong.
> 
> For whatever reason, she answered it incorrectly on purpose.


If I had a dollar for every time I've seen someone say the wrong answer in Academic Challenge when they KNEW the right one (myself included), I'd be a wealthy woman. Most of these kind of tournaments allow interrupts so you're racing to piece together the bits of information in the question quickly so you can ring in and lock out everyone else. If you THINK you know, you push your buzzer and process the rest of the information once they call on you and it's very easy to go the wrong direction and answer automatically THEN realize as you're speaking that you're saying the wrong thing (or that you have no idea where you're going with this).

Alex giving the answer under her breath was pretty typical behavior for someone who has lost at one of these events. You answer everything because you know you know and it sucks that you made a screwup and are no longer playing.

I think Claire's confession at the beginning was her trying to convince herself that it didnt't really matter if Alex won. It never occurred her that Alex WOULD lose (the 2-day cushion). When Alex lost, she didn't immediately say "Let's go to the waterside!" but humiliated her by fighting to get her back into the competition because she (Claire) couldn't accept the loss.

Also, Alex seemed very upset and they show no benefit to her having lost. She's just grumpy and frustrated afterwards. On top of all this, Alex is VERY competitive so I sincerely doubt she WOULD throw the game just because she thinks her mom wants her to lose.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I loved Claire's confessional at the beginning where she was describing how cool the waterslide was and then suddenly realized, "I'm Phil."


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> There is no way Cam would ever have thought that Phil was the guy Broderick was talking about. So of course there was no way Cam would think he and Mitch were the cancelling friends.


I understand that he wouldn't initially think it was Phil, but then, with the phone calls, you'd think he'd start putting 2 + 2 together...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I understand that he wouldn't initially think it was Phil, but then, with the phone calls, you'd think he'd start putting 2 + 2 together...


Cam was clearly distracted with other stuff when he told Broderick he'd have to cancel, so there's no way he was going to put 2+2 together.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> First, in the confessional, Claire said that she wanted Alex to lose so that Claire could go on the waterslides, but "don't tell." Alex has always been the most self-aware of all of the characters. She sees things as they really are. If Claire "secretly" wanted to Alex to lose, then Alex knew that.
> 
> Second, not only is Alex self-aware, she obviously very smart and academically gifted. She doesn't get answers wrong. When she and Claire were having that conversation towards the end, she was answering every single question that we heard in the background under her breath. "Martin Luther" was an _easy_ question. There is no way she would have gotten that wrong.
> 
> For whatever reason, she answered it incorrectly on purpose.


I thought the exact same thing when I watched the episode. She threw it. I actually came here to talk about it and nobody seemed to think that except you. How odd. I thought it was pretty obvious.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Loved Phil's date. The rest was pretty lame. Except the picture in the baby room and Phil's reaction.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Ereth said:


> I thought the exact same thing when I watched the episode. She threw it. I actually came here to talk about it and nobody seemed to think that except you. How odd. I thought it was pretty obvious.


I thought she threw it on purpose.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Ereth said:


> I thought the exact same thing when I watched the episode. She threw it. I actually came here to talk about it and nobody seemed to think that except you. How odd. I thought it was pretty obvious.


LOL at us agreeing at everyone else disagreeing.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I understand that he wouldn't initially think it was Phil, but then, with the phone calls, you'd think he'd start putting 2 + 2 together...


Maybe they left it open ended for Broderick to make another appearance and tie it all up together.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> Maybe they left it open ended for Broderick to make another appearance and tie it all up together.


This show does need a *funny* gay element.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Ereth said:


> I thought the exact same thing when I watched the episode. She threw it. I actually came here to talk about it and nobody seemed to think that except you. How odd. I thought it was pretty obvious.


I'm with you and TB. I thought Alex threw it.

But they didn't come right out and tell us that, so there's no way to know for sure.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

loubob57 said:


> I'm with you and TB. I thought Alex threw it.
> 
> But they didn't come right out and tell us that, so there's no way to know for sure.


And I could see her throwing it too, if there was some reason shown - like them at the waterslide together. Maybe that was cut from the final edit. But it sort of left things hanging.

Then again, maybe we are just supposed watch Alex in her lesson of losing at something she is really good at.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

loubob57 said:


> I'm with you and TB. I thought Alex threw it.
> 
> But they didn't come right out and tell us that, so there's no way to know for sure.


Like Sun and Jae?


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Like Sun and Jae?


Nooooooooooooooo!!!!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

As always I thought Phil stole the show. There's nothing funnier on TV than when Phil is clueless about something that he thinks he's got under control. Freakin' hilarious.

Many being a man/boy/romantic is getting old. I think maybe the only problem with this show is they seem to STICK to one theme with a character and then pound you over the head with it. They've done this with Cam, Haley and Manny especially. 

Still, it's done so well that it's funny most of the time.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Steveknj said:


> As always I thought Phil stole the show. There's nothing funnier on TV than when Phil is clueless about something that he thinks he's got under control. Freakin' hilarious.
> 
> Many being a man/boy/romantic is getting old. I think maybe the only problem with this show is they seem to STICK to one theme with a character and then pound you over the head with it. They've done this with Cam, Haley and Manny especially.
> 
> Still, it's done so well that it's funny most of the time.


Hey, where were you when the Cartwrights wore the same outfits for 14 years?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> Hey, where were you when the Cartwrights wore the same outfits for 14 years?


Nancy and Angela?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> LOL at us agreeing at everyone else disagreeing.


Yes, it does seem like a sign of the apocalypse, does it not?

The scene that sold it to me was the one with her sitting there, answering all the questions correctly, while complaining to her mother that it was more important to MOM that she excel than anything else, that her mother was living through her and she didn't like that.

She knew the answers. She didn't like the role she was being asked to play.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Yes, it does seem like a sign of the apocalypse, does it not?
> 
> The scene that sold it to me was the one with her sitting there, answering all the questions correctly, while complaining to her mother that it was more important to MOM that she excel than anything else, that her mother was living through her and she didn't like that.
> 
> She knew the answers. She didn't like the role she was being asked to play.


Further proof that the apocalypse is near?

I agree with both of you as well.

Time to stock up on can goods and bottled water!


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Yes, it does seem like a sign of the apocalypse, does it not?
> 
> The scene that sold it to me was the one with her sitting there, answering all the questions correctly, while complaining to her mother that it was more important to MOM that she excel than anything else, that her mother was living through her and she didn't like that.
> 
> She knew the answers. She didn't like the role she was being asked to play.


Or she could have simply brain-farted on that answer, which could still leave the rest of your analysis in play.

My personal take was that her irritation at knowing the answers while still talking to her mom was indicative of the fact that she couldn't believe she had screwed that first question up.

If they had showed a tag scene where Alex and Claire were riding the water slide together, then I would be more swayed that she threw the competition. But I think both are plausible explanations.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Ereth said:


> I thought the exact same thing when I watched the episode. She threw it. I actually came here to talk about it and nobody seemed to think that except you. How odd. I thought it was pretty obvious.


I saw your comment TB so I hadda back up to see what you and Ereth were discussing.

I'm with you guys, she clearly threw the competition.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

betts4 said:


> And I could see her throwing it too, if there was some reason shown - like them at the waterslide together. Maybe that was cut from the final edit. But it sort of left things hanging.
> 
> Then again, maybe we are just supposed watch Alex in her lesson of losing at something she is really good at.


I thought the reason was spelled out in the episode.

Claire liked Alex winning more than Alex liked winning. Alex threw the match to prove a point to her mom.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

SeanC said:


> I thought the reason was spelled out in the episode.
> 
> Claire liked Alex winning more than Alex liked winning. Alex threw the match to prove a point to her mom.


"You bought the 2 day cushion!!!!"

Think about that line. Was Alex proud that her mom showed such confidence in her, or was she angry? If she was angry that her mom bought a 2-day cushion, what does that say?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

SeanC said:


> ...she clearly threw the competition.


I don't think there was anything done "clearly" at all....to me it could go either way...


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Think about that line. Was Alex proud that her mom showed such confidence in her, or was she angry? If she was angry that her mom bought a 2-day cushion, what does that say?


I think Alex was frustrated, embarrassed, and lashing out (she DOES say TO CLAIRE that she was upset and looking for someone to blame). They make it very clear that you can tell the two-day cushion apart from the one-day cushion visually, so everyone could SEE that her mom expected her to win and they now had to walk around, hauling that cushion with Alex clearly no longer competing. That's humiliating.

When she initially yells at her mom, she acts as though Claire's action (the "Woo!") distracted her at a critical moment and caused her to lose the match. It's CLEARLY demonstrated in the scene that she lost (buzzer) and THEN Claire woos, so Claire DIDN'T cause her to lose. So it makes sense that as Claire comes to the realization that she's fixated on Alex winning, Alex also comes to a realization that even though it was her own fault that she lost lost, she was thoughtlessly blaming her mother rather than facing that she'd made a mistake.

Again....where's the evidence that she threw the match? That'd be a MUCH bigger scandal and there's nothing in the narrative that follows from such an action.

Also....seriously? NONE of you people have ever played College Bowl/Academic Challenge?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Polcamilla said:


> When she initially yells at her mom, she acts as though Claire's action (the "Woo!") distracted her at a critical moment and caused her to lose the match.


I don't think her "Really Mom? 'Woo?'" was her blaming mom for making her lose, it was her calling mom out on wooing her losing.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

busyba said:


> I don't think her "Really Mom? 'Woo?'" was her blaming mom for making her lose, it was her calling mom out on wooing her losing.


Well, that too. 

Truthfully, the bit that bugged me most was that IMMEDIATELY after getting a wrong answer she's standing there beside her mother. In those competitions, you don't get immediately disqualified like in a spelling bee. It's the result of scores more like a sports tournament, so you at LEAST wait until the end of the game to find out your team (and the other team)'s score.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Polcamilla said:


> I think Alex was frustrated, embarrassed, and lashing out (she DOES say TO CLAIRE that she was upset and looking for someone to blame). They make it very clear that you can tell the two-day cushion apart from the one-day cushion visually, so everyone could SEE that her mom expected her to win and they now had to walk around, hauling that cushion with Alex clearly no longer competing. That's humiliating.
> 
> When she initially yells at her mom, she acts as though Claire's action (the "Woo!") distracted her at a critical moment and caused her to lose the match. It's CLEARLY demonstrated in the scene that she lost (buzzer) and THEN Claire woos, so Claire DIDN'T cause her to lose. So it makes sense that as Claire comes to the realization that she's fixated on Alex winning, Alex also comes to a realization that even though it was her own fault that she lost lost, she was thoughtlessly blaming her mother rather than facing that she'd made a mistake.
> 
> Again....where's the evidence that she threw the match? That'd be a MUCH bigger scandal and there's nothing in the narrative that follows from such an action.


This.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

BTW, I am amused by Polcy's avatar right above mine.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> BTW, I am amused by Polcy's avatar right above mine.


LOL. That is great.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Polcamilla said:


> Again....where's the evidence that she threw the match? That'd be a MUCH bigger scandal and there's nothing in the narrative that follows from such an action.


Scandal? There's no scandal. She got it wrong. One of the easiest questions possible. Why would there be a scandal?



> Also....seriously? NONE of you people have ever played College Bowl/Academic Challenge?


No, but I was in Math Olympics.

Oh, and I was the champion speller for my class to go to the state Spelling Bee in the 2nd grade. I didn't even qualify the next year. And I was convinced it was because the teacher was cheating (she wasn't. I just didn't prepare). So I do know a little bit of what Alex was going through.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I thought Alex threw the match from the minute she did it, right up to the end of the show when she and her mom were talking. Then during that talk I changed my mind and now I don't think she did it on purpose after all.


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## GoHalos (Aug 30, 2006)

I thought that she threw it as well, but it definitely wasn't clear either way, IMO.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

It never occurred to me that she threw it, but now I think she did so to teach her mother a lesson about becoming too invested in her success.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> BTW, I am amused by Polcy's avatar right above mine.


How's the view?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> How's the view?


Apparently it was a full moon, but there was a chance for golden showers.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> How's the view?


Spectacular. :up:


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I actually could never figure out what that avatar was (Bald Eagle? game of thrones?). But once it was put in a sexual content, now it's clear as day and can't understand why I couldn't see it before.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> Apparently it was a full moon, but there was a chance for golden showers.


You guys are disgusting....

....but very funny...


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Scandal? There's no scandal. She got it wrong. One of the easiest questions possible. Why would there be a scandal?


If she DELIBERATELY answered wrong to throw the match? Yeah----that's a scandal. Whether it could be proved or not, it's a Very Big Deal.



> No, but I was in Math Olympics.
> 
> Oh, and I was the champion speller for my class to go to the state Spelling Bee in the 2nd grade. I didn't even qualify the next year. And I was convinced it was because the teacher was cheating (she wasn't. I just didn't prepare). So I do know a little bit of what Alex was going through.


Math Olympics and spelling bees are a completely different kinds of competition. Math Olympics you sit down and take a test. Spelling bee is individual with immediate elimination and though they show the academic challenge being kind of like that, it isn't really at all. Spelling bees also aren't time (well, within reason).

Either way, in BOTH of those you either know the answer or you don't and you are given ample opportunity to give it. It's a very different kind of pressure and you employ very different strategies. In Academic Challenge, it's not enough to know. You have to be able to very quickly access the correct information and you're competing to be the first to do so by milliseconds. It's a game----the other two are tests.

And to go to the above about throwing the game, on a team everyone knows what each person's specialty is. Depending on what the question was and how you answered (not just what you said, but HOW you said it), there's an excellent chance your teammates would know if you deliberately gave a wrong answer vs. making a careless mistake.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I actually could never figure out what that avatar was (Bald Eagle? game of thrones?). But once it was put in a sexual content, now it's clear as day and can't understand why I couldn't see it before.


I may switch to an older, less subtle avatar. Ereth remembers it, I think.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> I don't think there was anything done "clearly" at all....to me it could go either way...





madscientist said:


> I thought Alex threw the match from the minute she did it, right up to the end of the show when she and her mom were talking. Then during that talk I changed my mind and now I don't think she did it on purpose after all.


i'm with madscientist, except after the talk, i was more confused than ever... it could go either way....

and after reading this thread, i still don't have a clue...


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Polcamilla said:


> If she DELIBERATELY answered wrong to throw the match? Yeah----that's a scandal. Whether it could be proved or not, it's a Very Big Deal.
> 
> Math Olympics and spelling bees are a completely different kinds of competition. Math Olympics you sit down and take a test. Spelling bee is individual with immediate elimination and though they show the academic challenge being kind of like that, it isn't really at all. Spelling bees also aren't time (well, within reason).
> 
> ...


I didn't see any indication of a "Team" in this episode. Alex was on her own, and was disqualified singly. Had she thrown it in a team setting I could see your point.

Also, the math thing I was on WAS a team, and the challenge was solving the math problems faster than the other teams, so it is more analogous to what you describe than what I believe you are saying it was supposed to be like (is that a convoluted sentence or what!). We came in 4th. I was pissed. (To be fair, I had never in my life encountered anybody who could do math faster than me at that point. I had been racing calculators and winning. To come in 4th was totally unexpected).


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Polcamilla said:


> I may switch to an older, less subtle avatar. Ereth remembers it, I think.


I'm certain I don't remember. Why don't you PM me a hi-rez version of it, just to refresh my memory?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I didn't see anything that indicated a team either, not saying she wasn't on one, and yeah that would completely change what Alex did, but I thought she was on her own.

The story of a high achieving student purposely failing at something, a class, a test, a recital, whatever, to prove to their parent that it's their life, is a classic device and it's what I thought they were doing.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Ereth said:


> I didn't see any indication of a "Team" in this episode. Alex was on her own, and was disqualified singly. Had she thrown it in a team setting I could see your point.


I'd have to go back and rewatch the episode, but I thought it showed them checking in as a team and the setup was multiple kids at a table with buzzers. Like I said, they clearly fudged it as there's no event like that where you are immediately tossed out after a wrong answer. I think they were purposefully vague at how it worked so that they wouldn't have to bog down the episode explaining what the heck was going on and wouldn't have to introduce other characters. But I've never seen an Academic Challenge-type contest that was purely individual.

I checked with my son on Math Olympiad. He says there's an individual test with a time limit and a team test with a time limit. Total score is a certain number of points for each correct answer on the team test plus a certain number of points for each correct answer on each individual test. He has no idea how they do tiebreakers if you have a situation where both teams get a perfect score on the team test AND the individuals all get the same score.

He came in 1st place individual in the city-wide competition his team was in and was elated and then we learned that a good friend came in 1st in the national competition for high school students at the age of ten. There is ALWAYS a bigger fish.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Alex vocalizing the answers to questions after her disqualification immediately reminded me of Ralph Kramden after he blew Swanee River. Frustration and disappointment of having missed an early, easy question triggers the impulse to show that you really do know your stuff. Never crossed my mind that she might have thrown the contest. Complaining about mom buying the two-day cushion is just a way for her to vent further.


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## DavidJL (Feb 21, 2006)

RGM1138 said:


> Hey, where were you when the Cartwrights wore the same outfits for 14 years?





loubob57 said:


> Nancy and Angela?


Martin: Boy, I've had it with you guys. If you were Hoss and Little Joe, Ben Cartwright would kick your sorry butts right off the Ponderosa. 
Frasier: Dad. Dad, we're sorry. 
Niles: Very sorry. 
[Martin leaves.] 
Frasier: He's back on the Cartwrights again. You know, some day we really should ask him just who the hell they are?


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

DavidJL said:


> Martin: Boy, I've had it with you guys. If you were Hoss and Little Joe, Ben Cartwright would kick your sorry butts right off the Ponderosa.
> Frasier: Dad. Dad, we're sorry.
> Niles: Very sorry.
> [Martin leaves.]
> Frasier: He's back on the Cartwrights again. You know, some day we really should ask him just who the hell they are?


:up:


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## global_dev (Mar 15, 2010)

just watched this again for wife who didn't see this episode.

alex totally didn't throw the question&#8230; she says it was embarassing enough to get it wrong, but the woo-hoo was over the top.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

global_dev said:


> just watched this again for wife who didn't see this episode.
> 
> alex totally didn't throw the question she says it was embarassing enough to get it wrong, but the woo-hoo was over the top.


I watched it again tonight and caught a comment at the very end of the scene where she and Claire are talking. She is answering them under her breathe, and the people on stage are getting them wrong. Anyway, I can't remember the exact words, but the last line was about Claire not giving up the seat cushion and it would be great for the water slide.

This makes me wonder if there was a scene cut, of them on the slide. It just seems like they ended that segment too early to not have one more shot of the two of them as they did the others.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

betts4 said:


> This makes me wonder if there was a scene cut, of them on the slide.


Maybe they did shoot the scene, but decided that showing a skeleton on a water slide might be too scary for any kids watching.

Okay - I do feel bad about that one.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

scooterboy said:


> Maybe they did shoot the scene, but decided that showing a skeleton on a water slide might be too scary for any kids watching.
> 
> Okay - I do feel bad about that one.


HAHAHA - that made me laugh out loud.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

NJChris said:


> HAHAHA - that made me laugh out loud.


Took me awhile...but I finally got it....


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