# Tivo Roamio vs. Channel Master DVR+



## Lowella (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm looking for something to replace my Samsung DTB-H260F HD tuner (I'm strictly OTA for TV) that recently died. I've read a lot about the Channel Master DVR+, and I have some concerns about the experiences some people have had with it. On the pro side, it's pretty inexpensive and they say the picture is great and the user interface is good. On the con side, some people have had glitchy recordings, the remote is somewhat awkward, and the firmware may be an issue. I have a Series 1 Tivo with lifetime (yes, it still works just fine) so I thought I'd check out the Roamio. On the pro side, I like the Tivo interface (and I assume the Roamio's is similar), and I haven't seen any disappointment with how it works. On the con side, it costs more (with service). Does anyone have experience with both these devices? Or can you give me any guidance on your recommendation? Thanks.


----------



## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

I haven't experienced the Channel Master but will add a point.

I like the idea of a buy once DVR, but DVR's have a history of being abandoned. 

ReplayTV, BoxeeTV, ChannelMaster, perhaps Windows MCE. I may own a lot of abandoned hardware but DVR's take the cake and become close to worthless because of the service dependence.

Compare this to Tivo. Aren't the Series 1 still operational?

The other major thing is the ecosystem. So this translates to Apps and accessories. Depending on your usage patterns and intentions, neither of these might be important, but I thought it's best to point it out since it can get glossed over.

Look at some unpopular platforms, and you'll see the promise of apps is totally different than the reality of having the app you want.

If you want to stay within the Tivo ecosystem and be price competitive, isn't a lifetime Premiere close to the DVR+. Don't forget you have to get a hard drive.

Another example with Tivo, a common utilized feature is it can transfer shows to a computer. With DVR+, ??, there's just so many open questions, that we have to wait for answers to.

In a year, maybe Channel Master will demonstrate these risks are non-issues, but until then, they're an unknown.

PS. When I want something low priced for OTA, I get a Silicon Dust, but then you need to find software that you iike. But I know it'll never stop working.
PPS. Another major difference is Tivos (Base Roamio and Premiere 2) can work with Cable, so you don't have to throw it out if circumstances change.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Lowella said:


> I'm looking for something to replace my Samsung DTB-H260F HD tuner (I'm strictly OTA for TV) that recently died. I've read a lot about the Channel Master DVR+, and I have some concerns about the experiences some people have had with it. On the pro side, it's pretty inexpensive and they say the picture is great and the user interface is good. On the con side, some people have had glitchy recordings, the remote is somewhat awkward, and the firmware may be an issue. I have a Series 1 Tivo with lifetime (yes, it still works just fine) so I thought I'd check out the Roamio. On the pro side, I like the Tivo interface (and I assume the Roamio's is similar), and I haven't seen any disappointment with how it works. On the con side, it costs more (with service). Does anyone have experience with both these devices? Or can you give me any guidance on your recommendation? Thanks.


If you are just OTA go with the low end TiVo Roamio + lifetime and don't look back. Everything about TiVo far superior to ANYTHING that is being call a DVR. I got talk into DirectTV by my brother, big mistake. The POS of a Genie box is worse crap I ever used. Everything from the guild data to setting a season pass give you no info like the TiVo. I am considering paying the penalty and telling DirectTV take everything back and going back to Cox and getting a Roamio.


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

I had one of those Samsung boxes and when my died I replaced with it a Tivo, just do it. Having a box with a free data guide may be tempting, but there is no financial incentive to maintain free, or as I like to say "Free today,GONE tomorrow".
As others have stated, the base Romaio would serve you well.


----------



## Lowella (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks to telemark, Johncv, and tenthplanet. You have pretty much confirmed what I was thinking, and I'm going to go ahead with the Tivo Roamio Basic with lifetime.


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

The 4 tuners of the Roamio is hard to beat compared to the Channel Master having only 2. I find it boils down to people who just absolutely refuse to pay a monthly fee, or at least one as HIGH as TiVo's, to those who really want a TiVo over any other DVR.

While the new Channel Master (by Echostar) seems a great DVR, and has been reviewed as so, I do have a concern about repair path. I mean, not the external HDD, but if the unit itself should need repair. With TiVo one at least has a Weaknees (I'm not considering DYI'ers. Also, that slim Channel Master doesn't look like an easy DIY), regardless if some posters thing Weaknees is high priced. An average Joe can have dead parts (fan, the infamous bulging capacitors, power supplies) replaced and recover that TiVo almost like new and an investment in a machine not lost.

Of course, the TiVo Roamio has several other advanced features that the Channel Master does not, but as far as basic DVR of OTA, the lack of a repair path for the Channel Master would be my only real concern


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Lowella said:


> Thanks to telemark, Johncv, and tenthplanet. You have pretty much confirmed what I was thinking, and I'm going to go ahead with the Tivo Roamio Basic with lifetime.


I think that is the correct decision. I cut the cord in 2009 and bought my first TiVoHD, it still works as well as it did when I bought it. Overall I have used TiVo since 2000 and been happy. Windows Media Center is the probably still the second best option in my opinion but it is a distant second, especially now that it is essentially a legacy product and not being developed further. The Channel Master DVRs are probably OK based on what I have seen and read but TiVo just works, day after day, month after month, year after year.


----------



## chiba (Mar 7, 2009)

I had a series 3 with a 1tb drive upgrade using my Verizon Fios service for several years. Great experience, except for the price. Now I'm using the Channel Master DVR+ with an antenna and getting the major shows from the big networks. I also still use Netflix via my apple tv, and there are way to many programs to watch. The best part is I'm saving over $1800 a year. Is my guide as fancy? No. Who cares, I just bought a new motorcycle with that money. : )


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Roamio OTA is available on Amazon right now for $300 with Lifetime service.

Edit: I just looked up the Amazon listing. They are showing out of stock again. I would keep an eye on it, because I think at that price it is a no brainer which option is better.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Lowella said:


> I'm looking for something to replace my Samsung DTB-H260F HD tuner (I'm strictly OTA for TV) that recently died. I've read a lot about the Channel Master DVR+, and I have some concerns about the experiences some people have had with it. On the pro side, it's pretty inexpensive and they say the picture is great and the user interface is good. On the con side, some people have had glitchy recordings, the remote is somewhat awkward, and the firmware may be an issue. I have a Series 1 Tivo with lifetime (yes, it still works just fine) so I thought I'd check out the Roamio. On the pro side, I like the Tivo interface (and I assume the Roamio's is similar), and I haven't seen any disappointment with how it works. On the con side, it costs more (with service). Does anyone have experience with both these devices? Or can you give me any guidance on your recommendation? Thanks.


If you want a ton of information on the DVR+, you need to join AVSForum and check the DVR+ thread. One user there has both the DVR+ and TiVo OTA. You can find him on both threads. There is also a thread about comparison of the two units.

10,000 posts: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1481183-channel-master-dvr-owners-thread.html since 2013.

200 posts since March:http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1931553-channel-master-dvr-vs-tivo-roamio-ota.html


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

As far as features and getting a true whole home experience, TiVo easily beats the Channel Master DVR+. However, PRICE is a major factor. With the last TiVo pricing promotions, TiVo was very competitively priced, even with Lifetime promo prices, with the DVR+ and was easily the best choice. However, with the new bolt pricing and no more real deals for the remaining Roamio stock, TiVo represents a very poor value compared to the DVR+.

However, you should consider getting an S4 Premiere unit with Lifetime from Ebay to bring TiVo as an economically competitive option. Price it out and see what makes more sense. A second Premiere can also provide something much closer to a whole home experience in that it can STREAM (as well as transfer) the content from the other Premiere(s). Good luck


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> If you want a ton of information on the DVR+, you need to join AVSForum and check the DVR+ thread. One user there has both the DVR+ and TiVo OTA. You can find him on both threads. There is also a thread about comparison of the two units.
> 
> 10,000 posts: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1481183-channel-master-dvr-owners-thread.html since 2013.
> 
> 200 posts since March:http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1931553-channel-master-dvr-vs-tivo-roamio-ota.html


A bunch of people have or have had both. I have three of each (plus three DTVPals and seven Simple TV DVRs).

Each DVR has its pluses and minuses. My wife (last survey) prefers the DTVPal to either current gen DVR.

For someone who is OTA only, the DVR+ is the best choice. You do not need to join a forum or read a manual to use it. The DVR+ works just as you would expect a DVR to work. It requires no phone or internet connection. By extension, it does not require Channel Master to function. Just plug in an antenna, scan for channels, and you are good to go. Since the DVR+ uses an external disk, you can connect and disconnect disks at will. This is pretty awesome because you can pop in a disk for the holidays to record/watch/archive seasonal programming and easily replace it with another disk to record your other programs. For those with an ISP, the DVR+ has something called Linear OTT which streams non-Premium content continuously. There's a weather channel, bloomberg, abc news, cooking, hunting, music, and other channels. I like having a weather channel when weather is on my mind.

If you have Netflix, Plex, or Amazon Instant, it's tough to beat the TiVo Roamio OTA. That one box will do it all with one remote, one AC outlet, and one remote. The $300 deal with Lifetime was very nice. You can share files among multiple TiVos and add sets by purchasing inexpensive Minis. You need to be careful, however, because losing a single DVR could leave your Mini equipped home completely without service and, if you need to replace a failed DVR, you may find yourself compelled to overpay or accept a monthly fee because TiVo's pricing is very inconsistent and their goal is to collect a monthly fee.

Sling TV is missing from the TiVo and has been demo'd on the DVR+. That could make it a really good choice for those who want just a little premium programming (HBO, ESPN, AMC, etc.).

Since the $300 deal is gone, I am mostly recommending the DVR+ at this time. Last BF they were going for $175. You can get 1t disks for $50 right now, so for $225, you are good to go.

Simple/Tablo are something completely different, but make sense for some.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Without guide data it sounds pretty worthless to me. Like being in 1982 and manually doing everything. Nope.


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

If you're ok with VCR style timers, save your money and get a $35 iView.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I think most people would like away to access what ever media they want, when every they want, where ever they want (on any device). From my point of view there is no one "perfect for me" media delivery product and I am pretty sure there isn't one for anyone. In my opinion the chances of anyone building a product that can do that is zero. So again, in my opinion we will be using multiple devices and accepting various trade offs for the foreseeable future (at least the rest of my life which I hope/expect will be at least 30 yrs )

For those interested in OTA DVRs, the first thing you need to do is actually make sure you want/need and are willing to pay for an OTA DVR. If you want some mythical one box, low cost, perfect for you media delivery product, get over it. Accept you need multiple boxes and/or accept significant compromises and accept it isn't going to be cheap for anything near a "full" solution. 

Now if you still want an OTA DVR you actually have a few options, Various TiVos, Channel Master, Simple TV, & Tablo, DVRs, plus HTPCs. With those choices you have various price points, various DVR functionality, and various non-DVR add on abilities. Something can be said for and against all the OTA DVR options I listed. Don't worry about what someone else things the "best" option is, listen to to what people say when it comes to how they work and figure out what is the "best" for you. My 2 cents is worry more about getting as close as you can to getting the functionality you want over what it costs. After all if all you are after is to save money the best way to do that is to buy nothing.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

With the current $300 Amazon deal for the Roamio OTA with lifetime service the question is a no brainer!

The Tivo is the MUCH better option.

I had the CM, the Tablo and the Roamio. When the Roamio OTA was $50 for the unit and then $15 a month, the CM+ might have made more sense but not so much anymore. Once the current Amazon deal is gone that may change. The CM has limitations as it's 2 tuners and no way to expand to other TV's. So if those are important, then the CM is not even a consideration for some. Me? I could live with 2 tuners and I only use one TV in the home.

Right now, the Roamio OTA with lifetime deal from Amazon make everything else out there irrelevant..


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wizwor said:


> For someone who is OTA only, the DVR+ is the best choice. You do not need to join a forum or read a manual to use it. The DVR+ works just as you would expect a DVR to work. It requires no phone or internet connection.


There is a lot of discussion in the DVR+ forums about internet connections, Rovi guide data, bugs, firmware versions, little tricks here and there to make it work. Are you saying you have the option to leave it disconnected and use it like a VCR, unlike Tivo, or that the correct way to use a DVR+ is to leave it disconnected?

I think I'll stick with my $300 Roamio with lifetime, 4 tuners, integrated streaming services, whole home DVR capability and QWERTY remote.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

The CM DVR is $250 then you need a WiFi adapter that's another $40 then you need a HD which prices vary on. All in all it's going to be more expensive than the current Amazon OTA deal, have 2 less tuners, no expansion ability and no streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon ect.

Right now the CM DVR+ is a terrible value when compared to the Roamio OTA with lifetime.. I bet the only DVR's CM is selling right now are to people who do not know about the Amazon deal..


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

raqball said:


> I bet the only DVR's CM is selling right now are to people who do not know about the Amazon deal..


... and people who hate Tivo regardless. Any mention of Tivo in a DVR+ forum or thread makes everybody angry and defensive even though Tivo, at the current price, is far better in every way, except VCR mode. But in that case a $35 iView will do the job, as I said earlier.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

jrtroo said:


> Without guide data it sounds pretty worthless to me. Like being in 1982 and manually doing everything. Nope.


There is a guide. In fact, there are two. Untethered, it uses PSIP date to create the guide. With an ethernet connection, it uses Rovi.



mdavej said:


> If you're ok with VCR style timers, save your money and get a $35 iView.


The DVR+ records by name.



raqball said:


> With the current $300 Amazon deal for the Roamio OTA with lifetime service the question is a no brainer!


There is no current $300 deal.



mdavej said:


> There is a lot of discussion in the DVR+ forums about internet connections, Rovi guide data, bugs, firmware versions, little tricks here and there to make it work. Are you saying you have the option to leave it disconnected and use it like a VCR, unlike Tivo, or that the correct way to use a DVR+ is to leave it disconnected?
> 
> I think I'll stick with my $300 Roamio with lifetime, 4 tuners, integrated streaming services, whole home DVR capability and QWERTY remote.


I'm not selling DVRs and I think both DVRs are very good. Neither is perfect and the TiVo defects are at least as problematic as the DVR+ issues.



raqball said:


> The CM DVR is $250 then you need a WiFi adapter that's another $40 then you need a HD which prices vary on. All in all it's going to be more expensive than the current Amazon OTA deal, have 2 less tuners, no expansion ability and no streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon ect.


It has a wired ethernet connector. YOU may need wireless, but I never stream over wireless. Even with the most modern router, wired is better.



raqball said:


> Right now the CM DVR+ is a terrible value when compared to the Roamio OTA with lifetime.. I bet the only DVR's CM is selling right now are to people who do not know about the Amazon deal..


Link please. Last time I checked, it was out of stock.



mdavej said:


> ... and people who hate Tivo regardless. Any mention of Tivo in a DVR+ forum or thread makes everybody angry and defensive


Most people who cut the cord do not even know about the avs forums. If you read though the posts, those people are not your run of the mill consumers. There are even guys posting there who have never owned a DVR+.



mdavej said:


> Tivo, at the current price, is far better in every way, except VCR mode. But in that case a $35 iView will do the job, as I said earlier.


I can only assume you have used neither the DVR+ nor the iView. I've used both. I do not now have an iView as I have no use for a single tuner DVR which requires one to pause a program before rewinding it and has a very primitive UI.

Like I said, I am not trying to sell anything. I did not respond to this thread until I owned a TiVo for six months. I think people should refrain from posting uninformed statements. We are supposed to be helping each other not the manufacturers.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

wizwor said:


> There is no current $300 deal.
> 
> Link please. Last time I checked, it was out of stock.


There most certainly is still an Amazon deal. It says order now and it will be fulfilled when back in stock..

On the Amazon page click the available from other sellers for less and you will see the ships and sold by Amazon one for $299. Says out of stock at the moment but this is like the 3 or 4th time it has done that.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0148ZRFVO










Anyone buying a CM DVR right now (until Amazon is completely out of stock) has either lost their mind or does not know about the Amazon deal..


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

TiVo guide data appears to be different than what PSIP provides. Feel free to explain how it is the same.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

raqball said:


> There most certainly is still an Amazon deal. It says order now and it will be fulfilled when back in stock..


In other words...


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

jrtroo said:


> TiVo guide data appears to be different than what PSIP provides. Feel free to explain how it is the same.


Not sure what you mean. PSIP pulls program name, duration, and description from the broadcast stream. The guide looks the same. The Rovi guide shows two weeks ahead while PSIP generally only goes out a few days. PSIP information tends to include less errors than Rovi (or Gracenote).















The iView type boxes use the same PSIP data, but the presentation is channel at a time rather than a grid. I don't care for that.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

wizwor said:


> In other words...


Order it now and it ships in a few days........

Each time they have been out of stock and that message has been displayed, they have fulfilled the orders a few days later.

I get it, you think the DVR+ is better and that's fine but at the current Amazon price the DVR+ is a bad value in my opinion. Now once the Amazon deal is gone for good things may change.

Most won't even consider a DVR with 2 tuners. I could get by with 2 but I am guessing the majority of users here could not and would not.


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wizwor said:


> I can only assume you have used neither the DVR+ nor the iView. I've used both. I do not now have an iView as I have no use for a single tuner DVR which requires one to pause a program before rewinding it and has a very primitive UI.


I have a couple of iViews in service for a few years now. They work great for my kids in college who get clear QAM and need to live on a student budget (no money for Tivos or DVR+'s). I don't need to own a DVR+ to see the differences with Tivo. All are well documented.

And why would you disconnect a DVR+ from the internet and live with a one or two day PSIP guide with such limited meta data? While the iView UI is terrible, a crippled DVR+ isn't much better given the huge price difference. If you have a DVR+, connect it to the internet for God's sake.

Windows Media Center just transitioned from Zap2It (Tivo guide provider) to Rovi (DVR+ guide provider), and the result has been a disaster. Rovi guide data is horrible compared to Zap2It. I wouldn't wish Rovi on anyone. It's the main reason I switched from WMC to Tivo in the first place. There's no way I would go back at this point.

I agree that when Amazon runs out of the $300 Tivos entirely, the DVR+ becomes the only affordable choice again by default. But until then, you'd have to be out of your mind to choose a DVR+ over a Tivo. It's like being given the choice between a Smart and a Mercedes for essentially the same price and picking the Smart.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

mdavej said:


> And why would you disconnect a DVR+ from the internet and live with a one or two day PSIP guide with such limited meta data? While the iView UI is terrible, a crippled DVR+ isn't much better given the huge price difference. If you have a DVR+, connect it to the internet for God's sake.
> 
> Windows Media Center just transitioned from Zap2It (Tivo guide provider) to Rovi (DVR+ guide provider), and the result has been a disaster. Rovi guide data is horrible compared to Zap2It. I wouldn't wish Rovi on anyone. It's the main reason I switched from WMC to Tivo in the first place. There's no way I would go back at this point.
> 
> I agree that when Amazon runs out of the $300 Tivos entirely, the DVR+ becomes the only affordable choice again by default. But until then, you'd have to be out of your mind to choose a DVR+ over a Tivo. It's like being given the choice between a Smart and a Mercedes for essentially the same price and picking the Smart.


When I had my DVR+ it was kind of odd. About 80% of my channels showed the full 2 week guide and the other 20% would only show 24 hours out. It was connected to the internet via WiFi so I assume the channels that were only getting 24 hours of guide data were because they were not in Rovi's system? Not sure but it sucked!

Also, since the DVR+ only has 2 tuners there were a few times where I had 3 programs to record but only 2 tuners and other times where I had 2 shows to record and could not watch another live channel. CM really needs a 4 tuner option and the ability to expand before most would even give it a look..

I did have a positive contact result though. I contacted Rovi about a channel that was completely incorrect and they emailed me back within 48 hours saying the channel guide data was fixed. It was indeed fixed but showed east coast times (I am on the west coast feed) so I wrote them back and again within 48 hours it was fixed.

My main issue with CM is that they have a past history of leaving users out in the cold. At any time CM would decide to stop paying Rovi for the guide data and you'd be left hanging..

The DVR+ was pretty nice if you can live with it's limitations and I don't really have anything overly negative to say about it. When compared to the Roamio OTA with lifetime deal, the CM DVR+ comes in a a very distant 2nd place right now..


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

mdavej said:


> And why would you disconnect a DVR+ from the internet and live with a one or two day PSIP guide with such limited meta data?


My inlaws do not have high speed internet or a landline, so a PSIP guide is the only guide they can receive. When we go camping, we often end up in places with no reliable internet. We also have televisions with no nearby landline or ethernet.

The reason I put up an antenna in the first place was so we could get news and entertainment during a weather emergency. A TiVo stops working during these emergencies.

Some people do not want to share their viewing habits with others. There is no way to track what programming one watches via broadcast.

I can see a day when the only internet I pay for is my cell plan. I'd hate to he held hostage to an ISP for the sake of an EPG.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

mdavej said:


> I don't need to own a DVR+ to see the differences with Tivo. All are well documented.


You really do. The funny thing about people is that most validate their decisions by the number of people who agree with them. It's called herd mentality. Once people make a decision, they work tirelessly to lure people into the herd or try to scare people out of the herd depending on their personal experience. The TiVo is a very good DVR so there are a lot of herders -- especially in a TiVo community forum.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

wizwor said:


> http://itipix.com/StreamingMedia/ArticleImages/InlineImages/103721-Channel-Master-DVR--EPG-ORG.jpg
> [/IMG]


I like the way the DVR+ puts streaming apps and live steaming channels right into the program guide. I wish TiVo did that (with the option in Settings to pick which ones, if any, appear there). For live streaming channels, like CBSN and Vevo TV, it absolutely makes more sense to me to put those in the program guide than anywhere else.

How is the picture quality/reliability of those live streaming channels on the DVR+? I sometimes tune into CBSN on my Apple TV and the HD looks great, just as good as OTA HD, I'd say.

Another Q: when you select a live stream from the program guide, does it "tune" to it in the normal DVR+ UI that's used for OTA channels or does it launch a dedicated app specifically for that video provider?


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

wizwor said:


> ....
> The reason I put up an antenna in the first place was so we could get news and entertainment during a weather emergency. A TiVo stops working during these emergencies.
> ...


If you don't have Internet access you certainly do not want a new TiVo, however the above statement is not exactly true. A Roamio/Bolt will work just fine for several weeks (during an Internet outage) without any Internet access so unless your emergencies is very long term if you have power your Roamio/Bolt will be tuning TV just fine.



wizwor said:


> You really do. The funny thing about people is that most validate their decisions by the number of people who agree with them. It's called herd mentality. Once people make a decision, they work tirelessly to lure people into the herd or try to scare people out of the herd depending on their personal experience. The TiVo is a very good DVR so there are a lot of herders -- especially in a TiVo community forum.


I don't think it is that hard to get a good list of features without ownership. You can also get a sense of how things work from user forms - plenty of people are willing to honestly tell you how something works on these forums. I have found that if anything unhappy people are more likely to post than happy ones so I am not sure which way the bias goes. You just have to remember that a person can honestly find something acceptable that another person finds completely unacceptable and go from there.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

wizwor said:


> You really do. The funny thing about people is that most validate their decisions by the number of people who agree with them. It's called herd mentality. Once people make a decision, they work tirelessly to lure people into the herd or try to scare people out of the herd depending on their personal experience. The TiVo is a very good DVR so there are a lot of herders -- especially in a TiVo community forum.


Then there are those who go out of their way to justify their purchase no matter.. You do realize this is a Tivo forum right?

I assume most here did their research before buying and I'd bet there are plenty of people here who have owned both the DVR+ and the Tivo OTA. Many users here even scoff at the 4 tuner Roamio. If they scoff at 4 tuners then what exactly do you think their response to a 2 tuner DVR would be?

CM has a bad rap left behind from their previous business practices. They left a lot of people out in the cold.

I had the DVR+ and it was fine as long as you can live with it's limitations. The Roamio OTA (as it stands right now @ $300 w/ lifetime) flat out demolishes the CM.. It's not even close.

I liked my DVR+ when I had it but ultimately it's limitations are what caused me to return it. The Roamio also has limitations so it's a matter of which can you live with...

To each their own but please stop putting down people who do not agree with you by passively aggressive saying they are in a pack and have a herd mentality.........


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

wizwor said:


> Not sure what you mean.


My intuiting was that the utility in the referenced guide was not much more useful than an old VCR tape with the contents labeled. Thanks for proving my theory.

And NO, no herd here. There is plenty that can be improved with Tivo.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

wizwor said:


> You really do. The funny thing about people is that most validate their decisions by the number of people who agree with them. It's called herd mentality. Once people make a decision, they work tirelessly to lure people into the herd or try to scare people out of the herd depending on their personal experience. The TiVo is a very good DVR so there are a lot of herders -- especially in a TiVo community forum.


Another way to look at this impulse is to consider it a generosity of spirit; when one finds something good they want to share it with others and have the rest of the tribe benefit from it. You can view it either way depending upon whether you agree or disagree with the proselytizer.


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

This isn't a case of trying to convince people to believe one thing or another. We have a set of specs and other facts. Comparing those leads to a completely logical conclusion. I myself have avoided TiVo for years because it was too expensive. At this moment in time it isn't (compared to DVR+) and has more features that I value. So the only logical conclusion was to choose TiVo. You can blame it on mind games if that makes you feel better, but it's not that complicated.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

raqball said:


> Then there are those who go out of their way to justify their purchase no matter.. You do realize this is a Tivo forum right?


I found this forum when I was shopping for a DVR for my in-laws in 2013. I returned when I was trying to decide between a TiVo and a DVR+ last November. So, yeah, I know this is a TiVo forum. I got some good and some bad information when I was doing my research. I ended up getting CM DVRs last November. I bought three TiVos and two Minis this summer. So I own and use three TiVos, three DVR+s, and three DTVPals. I have been using the DTVPals for more than five years, so I am very familiar with PSIP. This post was from someone looking for opinions from those who had used both, so I responded in kind.



raqball said:


> I assume most here did their research before buying and I'd bet there are plenty of people here who have owned both the DVR+ and the Tivo OTA. Many users here even scoff at the 4 tuner Roamio. If they scoff at 4 tuners then what exactly do you think their response to a 2 tuner DVR would be?
> 
> CM has a bad rap left behind from their previous business practices. They left a lot of people out in the cold.


Two tuners vs four or one is part of the discussion. So is cost and so is user experience. I guess you can bring the performance of the companies into the discussion. I'm not thrilled with either, to be honest.



raqball said:


> I had the DVR+ and it was fine as long as you can live with it's limitations. The Roamio OTA (as it stands right now @ $300 w/ lifetime) flat out demolishes the CM.. It's not even close.
> 
> I liked my DVR+ when I had it but ultimately it's limitations are what caused me to return it. The Roamio also has limitations so it's a matter of which can you live with...


Describing the limitations would probably be more helpful than everything else you have posted. That is what OP was asking for.



raqball said:


> To each their own but please stop putting down people who do not agree with you by passively aggressive saying they are in a pack and have a herd mentality.........


I don't think you understand passive/aggressive behavior. Herd mentality is a real thing. In cyberspace, we call the participants 'fanboys'.

As I said, I like both DVRs. I bought the three DVR+s after buying one for my in-laws and I bought my third TiVo after using two I bought in May. From July until this month, I recommended the TiVo without hesitation with the caveat that buying into the TiVo universe could result in unexpected expenses going forward. Now that the $300 Lifetime deal is gone, I am back to thinking it is too expensive. I'm not alone in that opinion -- even among TiVo fanboys.

I don't mean to make you feel bad about your decision. I am just trying to provide information to people who may stumble across this thread trying to decide which DVR to buy. I think this thread is pretty complete, so I am going to move on.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

wizwor said:


> I found this forum when I was shopping for a DVR for my in-laws in 2013. I returned when I was trying to decide between a TiVo and a DVR+ last November. So, yeah, I know this is a TiVo forum. I got some good and some bad information when I was doing my research. I ended up getting CM DVRs last November. I bought three TiVos and two Minis this summer. So I own and use three TiVos, three DVR+s, and three DTVPals. I have been using the DTVPals for more than five years, so I am very familiar with PSIP. This post was from someone looking for opinions from those who had used both, so I responded in kind.
> 
> Two tuners vs four or one is part of the discussion. So is cost and so is user experience. I guess you can bring the performance of the companies into the discussion. I'm not thrilled with either, to be honest.
> 
> ...


This will be my final response to you as you are obviously just here to put users down and insult people.. I don't entertain people like that, sorry as I find they just need attention, even be it negative, and they do anything to get it..

You are not making me feel bad about my decision at all. I am educated and can figure out all for myself what I want to buy. If I am not happy with the Tivo I'll sell it and buy something else.

You inferred that people can't judge a product without owning it. I was recently in the market for a new soundbar. There are hundreds of them. I guess according to you, I needed to buy and own them all to make an educated decision.. No I didn't. I can read, I can research and I can and did come to an informed decision..

Troll away all you want and continue to make snide remarks to other users here as from this point on, everything you post as far as I am concerned is for entertainment purposes only..

As far as the OP questions goes, you are nowhere even close to discussing it but I'll digress now and let you get back to the trolling..

And even though you keep saying it, does not make it true. The $300 Amazon deal is NOT gone.

Direct from the Amazon site 20 seconds ago



> Temporarily out of stock.
> *Order now and we'll deliver when available*. We'll e-mail you with an estimated delivery date as soon as we have more information. Your account will only be charged when we ship the item.
> Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.


Screenshot taken 20 seconds ago:


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Be sure to post a followup when it is back in stock at that price 

Note that the Roamio OTA with a monthly fee _is_ in stock (see your picture).

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the hardware is no longer being sold with Lifetime.


----------



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

wizwor said:


> Be sure to post a followup when it is back in stock at that price
> 
> Note that the Roamio OTA with a monthly fee in stock (see your picture).
> 
> You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the hardware is no longer being sold with Lifetime.


Huh? It is in fact still being sold with Lifetime service................................................... Not being sold and temporarily out of stock are 2 completely different things..

I'm not going to post when it's back it's stock.. I ordered a few times ago when it was listed in the same state it's displaying now. About a week later, mine shipped...

The Lifetime deal through Amazon has went in and out of stock a few times already. Each and every time the Lifetime deal has went out of stock, the non lifetime still showed as in stock. A few days later the lifetime came back in stock. So yes, I guess you do have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If anyone wants the deal they better order it now. Amazon does not charge your card until it ships. I assume this deal is probably getting close to being over for good. I don't know how many they have on the way but playing a waiting game for it to actually show as in stock could be dangerous..

Amazon's note should be pretty self explanatory...



> Temporarily out of stock.
> Order now and we'll deliver when available. We'll e-mail you with an estimated delivery date as soon as we have more information. Your account will only be charged when we ship the item.
> Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.


I get it, you are here to troll but now you are going beyond trolling by posting flat out false information.

Are you upset because you are stuck with the CM DVR+ and can't afford the Amazon deal? Sure is starting to look that way....

To the block list with you as you don't appear to have anything productive or informative to offer...


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

raqball said:


> Are you upset because you are stuck with the CM DVR+ and can't afford the Amazon deal? Sure is starting to look that way....











Now, please show me the basis of your expertise


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

wizwor said:


> Now, please show me the basis of your expertise


He is not your b*tch, that's why he blocked you.


----------



## jericko (Dec 31, 2015)

I am actually the person who started the "Channel Master DVR+ vs TiVo Roamio OTA" over at AVS Forums and went the Channel Master route. I will admit for the 1st few months I was a DVR+ defender. But now its been 8 months, and I am jumping over to Tivo and admit the Channel Master DVR+ was a mistake. 

First, its buggy, so buggy we missed quite a few TV recordings. There is a reason the Channel Master DVR+ thread over at AVS is so long, there are so many issues. 

But after owning the DVR+ for 8 months, my tuners are going out. I have to power cycle the unit every 2-3 days to get them to work again. Channel Master support could not have been any worse. I ended up shipping it in at their request and their support after having it for over a week, plugged it in and looked at it for a minute and told me I have "signal fluctuation in my area" and they will not fix/replace it my unit. 

I end up regretting going the DVR+ route, and hope others avoid it as well.


----------

