# When are Series 2 TiVos expected in the UK?



## mrsolutions (Jul 7, 2006)

Anybody know?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Possibly between now and the end of time. Then again, possibly not even then


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## mrsolutions (Jul 7, 2006)

Whats the reasons behind them not releasing it?


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## mjk (Mar 13, 2002)

When you find out, let us know.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)




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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

PMSL  Nice one Steve!


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

My guess is that they can't find a volume manufacturer who will agree to their licensing terms. TiVo don't manufacture boxes themselves. I doubt that it is an outright decision by TiVo to avoid the UK. So, if you happen to know a volume manufacturer who is looking for a potential tax write-off ...


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Is it true that is now possible to obtain sky channels (that require a viewing card) via none Sky kit?

If so perhaps someone could make a HD Tivo for the Sky platform?

Please however not made by Thomson if anything like their current Sky HD boxes 

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Automan said:


> Is it true that is now possible to obtain sky channels (that require a viewing card) via none Sky kit?


Not as far as I know. Sky won't release the specs for the cams.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

There is no OFFICIAL route to decoding VideoGuard channels on the Sky platform.

However there IS an UNOFFICIAL route to doing this - as the current Videoguard CAM has been reverse engineered - though this doesn't allow non-subscription viewing - as a valid subscription and viewing card is still required. There are no guarantees that this will continue to be the case, and the reverse engineered CAM could fail to work at any time I guess.

In theory this should allow Sky channels to be received on a non-Sky receiver, or a PC with a DVB-S card and CI slot allowing a "special" CAM to be installed.

This isn't perfect, apparently, as the card needs to be returned to the original box it was married to every 6 weeks or so to be re-authorised?

However it is conceivable, that with the DVB-S "pretending to be DVB-T" MCE drivers that are CI compatible, that it might be possible to get Windows MCE to receive and record Sky encrypted channels, without a Sky+ subscription. However for dual recording you'd need two subscriptions - or possibly a multi-room sub (which is the same as a Sky+ sub?)


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

I don't think we will get a series two. I am hoping for a high definition series three.

If my property developing and software businesses go well, I might have some spare cash to help get a series 4 or 5 released in the UK in about 15 years time


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

By then, if we the world still has any fuel left, won't we will have everyting by Video On Demand making all such gadgets museam pieces - Just like VHS has gone for box office movies now?

Automan.


cyril said:


> I don't think we will get a series two. I am hoping for a high definition series three.
> 
> If my property developing and software businesses go well, I might have some spare cash to help get a series 4 or 5 released in the UK in about 15 years time


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## hustler (May 4, 2006)

iankb said:


> My guess is that they can't find a volume manufacturer who will agree to their licensing terms.


If there's a grain of truth in that...I'd love to know what differs in the UK license contract, to the US license contract.

Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic & Humax all produce US S2 boxes. I simply do not believe that the aforementioned UK divisions can't get along with TiVo....but the US divisions can.

IMHO, it's Tivo who are unwilling to re-enter the UK market.


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## Rob Nespor Bellis (Feb 17, 2001)

hustler said:


> If there's a grain of truth in that...I'd love to know what differs in the UK license contract, to the US license contract.


Economies of scale. 300Million potential users with a good brand awareness of TiVo compared to 50Million potential users who know about $ky+ 

Rgds,

R.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

automan said:


> By then, if we the world still has any fuel left...


PLUG - My guilt at the environmental impact of all my gadgets lead me to switch to http://www.good-energy.co.uk/ - all their energy is from renewable sources and worked out cheaper than my previous provider. 
Now I have an quandry that leaving my stuff on boosts the market demand for renewable energy - so should I not worry about it and leave everything on standby - or do I continue to try and reduce my consumption  ?


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> ...My guilt at the environmental impact of all my gadgets lead me to switch to http://www.good-energy.co.uk/ - all their energy is from renewable sources...should I...leave everything on standby - or ...try and reduce my consumption?


It would appear they are a commercial enterprise in need of profits; 
therefore, as an environmentalist myself, I would say you should use as much electricity as you can afford: 
this will make the company more money, allowing it to grow and offer carbon-free electricity to more people. :up:

This appear to be one example where consumerism can, and should, be encouraged! 

I am, of course, willing to hear environmental arguments against this view.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

Automan said:


> By then, if we the world still has any fuel left, won't we will have everyting by Video On Demand making all such gadgets museam pieces - Just like VHS has gone for box office movies now?
> 
> Automan.


I've got Homechoice VOD - it's got about 25 years to go I think before it competes well with hard disk based PVRs like TiVo.

If you don't watch a wide variety of stuff, or if your tastes coincide EXACTLY with that of your VOD provider then VOD will replace your PVR.

If it does not then you have to stick with SkyHD/TiVo etc..

I watch about 0.5% on VOD - they have got Dr Who now -yay!

I think we'll have gigabit broadband in 15 years time, so speed won't be a problem, but obtaining the vast amount of content for VOD will be difficult due to the usual licensing problems.

At least 100 terabyte hard disks and 120 inch plasmas will be cheap by then


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## pscsuk (Jul 21, 2004)

Rob Nespor Bellis said:


> Economies of scale. 300Million potential users with a good brand awareness of TiVo compared to 50Million potential users who know about $ky+


When I was looking at TiVo, I rang 'TiVo support', who told me 'don't bother buying TiVo, it's rubbish, wait a bit, and Sky are going to be releasing something far better soon' (and he went on to go into detail the 'advantages' of Sky+ over TiVo)... (this was just before Sky+ became available). Remember, this was from "TiVo support"....

Now, I knew that TiVo support was actually run by Sky, so I didn't listen to what they said, and was actually quite annoyed. I did email TiVo to ask if they knew what Sky were saying, but I got no response (it wouldn't surprise me if my email went to Sky as well...)

Thankfully I did get a TiVo, but I do wonder if at least part of the 'failure' of TiVo in the UK was this type of misinformation from their 'helpdesk'. Other people may not have realised that the TiVo helpdesk was run by Sky. IMHO TiVo using Sky as their 'helpdesk' was a big mistake, given that Sky were soon to become TiVo's biggest competitor in the UK..


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

pscsuk said:


> When I was looking at TiVo, I rang 'TiVo support', who told me 'don't bother buying TiVo, it's rubbish, wait a bit, and Sky are going to be releasing something far better soon' (and he went on to go into detail the 'advantages' of Sky+ over TiVo)... (this was just before Sky+ became available). Remember, this was from "TiVo support"....


That is just so wrong 



> Thankfully I did get a TiVo, but I do wonder if at least part of the 'failure' of TiVo in the UK was this type of misinformation from their 'helpdesk'. Other people may not have realised that the TiVo helpdesk was run by Sky. IMHO TiVo using Sky as their 'helpdesk' was a big mistake, given that Sky were soon to become TiVo's biggest competitor in the UK..


I don't think you'll find one person on here that will disagree with you on that  Do I remember Tivo themselves also admitting that their linking-up with Sky that was a mistake or did I dream it?


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

pscsuk said:


> When I was looking at TiVo, I rang 'TiVo support', who told me 'don't bother buying TiVo, it's rubbish, wait a bit, and Sky are going to be releasing something far better soon' (and he went on to go into detail the 'advantages' of Sky+ over TiVo)... (this was just before Sky+ became available). Remember, this was from "TiVo support"....


Surely, Tivo must have grounds for a legal challenge against Sky for unfair practice under competition laws, in much the same way as have been mounted against BA (by Virgin), Microsoft (by the EU et al.) etc?


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## pscsuk (Jul 21, 2004)

ericd121 said:


> Surely, Tivo must have grounds for a legal challenge against Sky for unfair practice under competition laws, in much the same way as have been mounted against BA (by Virgin), Microsoft (by the EU et al.) etc?


That's why I tried to contact TiVo to tell them about it just after it happened - but either they didn't care, or all their communications from the UK are vetted by Sky... (I suppose TiVo may have complained to Sky but I got no feedback or request for more information).

Anyway, given that this was several years ago, it'd be hard to prove what Sky told me now...


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

pscsuk said:


> Thankfully I did get a TiVo, but I do wonder if at least part of the 'failure' of TiVo in the UK was this type of misinformation from their 'helpdesk'.


Sky are notorious for their misinformation. They are still calling Sky+ a PVR, rather than the DVR that it really is.



> IMHO TiVo using Sky as their 'helpdesk' was a big mistake, given that Sky were soon to become TiVo's biggest competitor in the UK.


TiVo actually admitted on this forum that this might not of been their wisest move.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

iankb said:


> TiVo actually admitted on this forum that this might not of been their wisest move.


Pesronally I think that not giving the retailers a subscription was another serious error.

All the stores I went in to see TiVo in action couldnt demo it properly as the boxes were all unsubbed 

Had they been able to use it properly then there would have been the slight possibility of finding a "sales droid" with more than one brain cell who could understand what a superb bit of kit it really was.

They would then have been able to demonstrate it properly and evangelise about how it changes your TV viewing for ever.



> Sky are notorious for their misinformation. They are still calling Sky+ a PVR, rather than the DVR that it really is.


 Having had to reset my SKY+ yet again I can confirm that it IS a PVR..... *P*ile of *V*ideo *R*ubbish 

Went into Comet to see what all the hype was for SKY HD and found out that the box DIDNT have an HD subscription so couldnt view the SKY HD channels. BBC HD looked pretty good apart from the fact that the picture was too green for my liking but I believe that is called "football". When I queried why the HD demo couldnt show all the HD channels I was told that "We have to use the SKY HD Demo Channel" so I assume it has specially selected content to show the box to its best just like the DVD's used to sell flat panel displays.


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## rboldon (Aug 20, 2001)

I chatted to a former Sky marketing Director at IBC last year..He admitted that sky deliberately terminated the co-marketing agreement with Tivo the moment NDS had their PVR platform ready (what we now know as sky+). 

With Sky announcing recently that Sky+ users now account for 18% (around 1.4million users) of their subscriber base and the fact that the only way Tivo could ever make a sky cam compatible pvr would be via EU legal intervention (News Corp want to protect their NDS subsidiary's investment in both PVR and Crypto technologies)...it looks like they have to go down other avenues:

1] Freeview tuner based device (Standard Def only)
2] Cable based device SD and poss HD (only with agreement with NTL/Telewest)
3] Update the device we have today with S2 features (essentially an analogue SD tivo)

Shame really as I really like my Tivo (original pilot model) and it still goes strong...but eventually when I get a weak moment and take the HD plunge ... I'll prob buy a HD sky+(well you get it anyway in the box)

I really do hope Tivo come back to Europe as there is a market here....Freeview users have now overtaken terrestrial analogue viewers for the first time so that must be worth a sizable chunk of change to at least one manufacturer???


Just my rant.....sorry have been away from the forum for a while...glad to see the UK contingent is still flourishing!!

RB.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

katman said:


> All the stores I went in to see TiVo in action couldnt demo it properly as the boxes were all unsubbed


In my case, the Dixons salesman said that the problem was they couldn't find out how to open the front to load a tape.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

rboldon said:


> the only way Tivo could ever make a sky cam compatible pvr would be via EU legal intervention (News Corp want to protect their NDS subsidiary's investment in both PVR and Crypto technologies)


I was watching the news, yesterday, of the European Commission having another go at Microsoft, and thinking that they would go after Sky if only they knew what Sky had done to Tivo.

Does anyone know how we might go about informing them (The EC)?

*pscsuk* could be a material witness.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

They could also have a go at Sky for restrictive practices, whereby they insist on entering a pin number for 15-rated films shown early in the day, even though one has all parental checks switched off. This only works with Sky+, and stops any other DVR/PVR from recording them.


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