# Hd Guru confirms Scientific Atlanta / Cisco Tuning Adapter



## mfogarty5 (Apr 27, 2006)

The hdguru's most recent post is about how SDV breaks CableCards. It's a pretty good read, but the part I found most interesting is quoted below.

"The HD Guru has surveyed several makers of CableCARD ready sets, and all said their sets were never designed to add such a device and even if their respective sets have USB ports, they will not be able to accept such an adapter.

So this leaves only the owners of high definition TiVo DVRs. *The adapter device should work with HD TiVos, however, according to a Cisco spokesperson, its version is now undergoing testing at Cablelabs and is not expected to be released until sometime this summer.* A Motorola source would not provide any status or a release date, likely missing the promised availability in the second quarter 2008."

This is the first confirmation of a Scientific Atlanta / Cisco Tuning Adapter.

http://hdguru.com/how-the-cable-industry-plans-to-cheat-10-million-hdtv-owners/233/


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I don&#180;t see a date for that article. It may have been written last week since Cisco mentions the testing which was done last week.

I&#180;ve been looking for days for something on this. Thanks.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

basically the rest of the CE industry just said to heck with it. TiVo left on its own worked out something with Comcast and cablelabs.

It would have been nice if HDTV makers had been more vocal back in the days the FCC just kept moving the deadline and cable companies just kept saying the same old OCAP or nothing mantra.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Just makes it more tempting to start boycotting Cable & go straight to OTA.

Understandable some people can't go straight OTA or they would get nothing. I have a vacation home that I have cable at, because you can't get OTA.

TGC


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

This is good news IMO. "This summer" from Cisco is close enough to the "second quarter" deadline we were told before.

Not that I care anymore, I will dump cable soon. But good for everyone who currently pays for channels they can't even receive.


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## HD GURU (Aug 11, 2007)

Details that I was not able to ascertain from Cablevision or TiVo by deadline were about the logistics of obtaining the "tuning adapter" ( I prefer the term dongle) from you cable provider. Will it be free or will the cable provider charge for it? If a charge, will it be monthly or a one time fee. Can a TiVo owner pick it up at their providers office or will the cable company charge around fifty buck for a "truck roll" to deliver it (as they do when requesting a CableCARD from Cablevision (NY). 

One more detail I did not receive from our friends at TiVo: When will the required firmware download for the dongle to work be sent?

HD Guru


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

mfogarty5 said:


> "The HD Guru has surveyed several makers of CableCARD ready sets, and all said their sets were never designed to add such a device and even if their respective sets have USB ports, they will not be able to accept such an adapter.
> 
> So this leaves only the owners of high definition TiVo DVRs.


HTPCs would be a possible market as well.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HD GURU said:


> Details that I was not able to ascertain from Cablevision or TiVo by deadline were about the logistics of obtaining the "tuning adapter" ( I prefer the term dongle) from you cable provider. Will it be free or will the cable provider charge for it? If a charge, will it be monthly or a one time fee. Can a TiVo owner pick it up at their providers office or will the cable company charge around fifty buck for a "truck roll" to deliver it (as they do when requesting a CableCARD from Cablevision (NY).
> 
> One more detail I did not receive from our friends at TiVo: When will the required firmware download for the dongle to work be sent?
> 
> HD Guru


thanks for the deeper look :up: These are all good questions


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

HDTiVo said:


> I don´t see a date for that article. It may have been written last week since Cisco mentions the testing which was done last week.
> 
> I´ve been looking for days for something on this. Thanks.


If you go to the main page it lists the date as Tuesday 15 April.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

HD GURU said:


> Details that I was not able to ascertain from Cablevision or TiVo by deadline were about the logistics of obtaining the "tuning adapter" ( I prefer the term dongle) from you cable provider. Will it be free or will the cable provider charge for it? If a charge, will it be monthly or a one time fee. Can a TiVo owner pick it up at their providers office or will the cable company charge around fifty buck for a "truck roll" to deliver it (as they do when requesting a CableCARD from Cablevision (NY).
> 
> One more detail I did not receive from our friends at TiVo: When will the required firmware download for the dongle to work be sent?
> 
> HD Guru


That all remains to be seen.

My guess is a truck roll will be required to deliver/install/authorise the unit (with the requisite truck roll fee), the same as Cablecards, and probably the same time as, for new customers. There will be a nominal rental fee. Or they could allow customer pickup and install, with totally no additional cost. I suspect the former will be the norm.

My guess for a software release date would be by the end of summer for full distribution.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

vman41 said:


> HTPCs would be a possible market as well.


TVs have used tuning resolversadapters for like 40 years. They´ve generally been called cable boxes.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> TVs have used tuning resolversadapters for like 40 years. They´ve generally been called cable boxes.


When using a cable box, a TV isn't trying to tune to anything other than 61.25 Mhz (analog channel 3). A resolver will be a gizmo that lets the TV find the right program stream when told to tune to channel 811.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

vman41 said:


> When using a cable box, a TV isn't trying to tune to anything other than 61.25 Mhz (analog channel 3). A resolver will be a gizmo that lets the TV find the right program stream when told to tune to channel 811.


Its all about the same thing. I really refer to the guy´s mention that TV makers weren´t playing - like I´m a TV maker and I say "tuning adapter? huh, isn´t that what the STB is for?...

Series3 Platform TiVoes are comparatively unique in that they have no ability to interface with a STB, thus needing a specialized, analogous component...


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## Austin_Martin (Sep 13, 2006)

> Its all about the same thing. I really refer to the guy´s mention that TV makers weren´t playing - like I´m a TV maker and I say "tuning adapter? huh, isn´t that what the STB is for?...
> 
> Series3 Platform TiVoes are comparatively unique in that they have no ability to interface with a STB, thus needing a specialized, analogous component...


You're forgetting that these TV makers put in the digital cable tuners and cablecard slots specifically to avoid the STB's.

Both the cablecard tv's and the Series 3 Tivos were made to avoid an extra STB.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Austin_Martin said:


> You're forgetting that these TV makers put in the digital cable tuners and cablecard slots specifically to avoid the STB's.
> 
> Both the cablecard tv's and the Series 3 Tivos were made to avoid an extra STB.


anyone in the know - knew that cable cards would not tune SDV by themsleves and that something extra would be needed. They should also have known that SDV was key to cable companies.

I can certainly unserstand purchasers of TVs being upset they are left out of the loop. Their was not as much reason for them to in the know on all this.

But for TV manufactures to be crying foul at this point in the game is like trying to say the goal scored in the first half should not count when there is 2 minutes left in the game.

In my opinion the TV set makers should be held accountable for the problem. I would say TiVo should as well but they are doing something about the issue and have been for a couple of years now.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Austin_Martin said:


> You're forgetting that these TV makers put in the digital cable tuners and cablecard slots specifically to avoid the STB's.
> 
> Both the cablecard tv's and the Series 3 Tivos were made to avoid an extra STB.


Nah, I didn´t forget.


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## FrancesTheMute (Sep 17, 2005)

> The cable industry was also required to add CableCARD slots to their own cable boxes, but miraculously, its own boxes, (with over 90%) supplied by either Cisco (formally know as Scientific Atlanta) or Motorola, maintain the bi-directional functionality needed for impulse pay per view and VOD (and coincidentally SDV).


This is what I find amusing. All cable boxes are required to have CableCARDS in them, but they have no issue with getting SDV and VOD with their boxes. Almost makes me wonder if the cableCARDS in the STB's aren't just dummy cards that don't actually do anything. It stands to reason if they truly are using CableCARDS and they can handle SDV, then any device using a cableCARD should be the same. Either that, or the FCC should require the cable companies to provide whatever information is needed to get the two way communication to happen to companies like Tivo. With Tivo it should be really easy to add each company's information to the download when doing the guided setup.

To me, this whole thing is just a big F.U. to the FCC from the cable companies. It's nice that Tivo is being so proactive, since it's obvious the cable companies don't give a **** about their customers.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

FrancesTheMute said:


> All cable boxes are required to have CableCARDS in them, but they have no issue with getting SDV and VOD with their boxes.


I thought they were just required to be cable-card ready.


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## lofar (Mar 21, 2008)

FrancesTheMute said:


> This is what I find amusing. All cable boxes are required to have CableCARDS in them, but they have no issue with getting SDV and VOD with their boxes. Almost makes me wonder if the cableCARDS in the STB's aren't just dummy cards that don't actually do anything. It stands to reason if they truly are using CableCARDS and they can handle SDV, then any device using a cableCARD should be the same. Either that, or the FCC should require the cable companies to provide whatever information is needed to get the two way communication to happen to companies like Tivo. With Tivo it should be really easy to add each company's information to the download when doing the guided setup.
> 
> To me, this whole thing is just a big F.U. to the FCC from the cable companies. It's nice that Tivo is being so proactive, since it's obvious the cable companies don't give a **** about their customers.


I found this an interesting point, so I figured since I have one of these DVR's from the cable company that i'd pull out the cable card and see. So if anyone is interested this is what is in my Cox branded, scientific atlanta cable box.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm30/lofar1/CCBack.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm30/lofar1/CCFront.jpg

And sure as heck, the box does not work without the cable card.. What else is funny is that this is a MS card and they apparently don't offer MS cards in my area. hmmm


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Stop! Bad info! Do Not Disassemble your cable box just yet!

CableCARDs are a seperate entity from the components involved in accessing SDV. 

For more details, read other threads on subject.


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## lofar (Mar 21, 2008)

hehe it was hardly disassembling.. Lift plate, push button pop card. lol. I'm also very competent with electronics and electronic design. But yeah prolly don't want to dig deeper, especially since they have security stickers all over everything else.

I find all the finger pointing in this interesting and not just in SDV, but in the whole PPV and on demand/interactive components that are refused to tivo cable card customers. Seems to me a lot of this is either a limitation of tivo and their software/device or a limitation of the cable cards that tivos end up getting and not so much just a problem with the cable card or cable card tech itself. But who's to blame since neither will fess up?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Go read Zatz (plus *post on Mari´s blog*) and Mega for some heat on the TR...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

lofar said:


> I find all the finger pointing in this interesting and not just in SDV, but in the whole PPV and on demand/interactive components that are refused to tivo cable card customers. Seems to me a lot of this is either a limitation of tivo and their software/device or a limitation of the cable cards that tivos end up getting and not so much just a problem with the cable card or cable card tech itself. But who's to blame since neither will fess up?


The two way components aren't being "held back" from the 3rd party manufacturers, the 3rd party manufacturers are 
either:

choosing not to go to the expense
couldn't make 2-way hardware, based on what specs were available at the time the hardware was developed.
refusing to play two-way the cable providers want (OCAP)
choosing to play, but have no product out yet (for general sale to the public anyways).

The boxes the cable providers are now issuing are either OCAP/True2Way, or are basically their old proprietary platform with a cable card for conditional access, instead of their embedded security.

The cablecard itself isn't the limitation, it is the host.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

FrancesTheMute said:


> All cable boxes are required to have CableCARDS in them, but they have no issue with getting SDV and VOD with their boxes. Almost makes me wonder if the cableCARDS in the STB's aren't just dummy cards that don't actually do anything. It stands to reason if they truly are using CableCARDS and they can handle SDV, then any device using a cableCARD should be the same.


To guarantee that cable providers will accept a device, a device must get CableLabs certification. To get CableLabs certification, the two-way functionality has to be approved by CableLabs. Until this "Tru2Way" proposal, there really wasn't a viable approved two-way standard. Although the cable company's set-top boxes aren't certified by CableLabs, the cable companies of course allow the boxes they themselves provide . These boxes use the cable cards for authentication (as required by the FCC), and whatever mechanism they want for two-way functionality.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

It's interesting that everyone seems to take it as a given that all new cableboxes being deployed now are cablecard boxes.

Here in Pitsburgh Comcast has the DCH3416 and 6416 boxes. They are cablecard boxes, but digital-only. They are deploying them in the areas where they have ADS, but then they pull out the old DCT boxes from those areas and use them for new accounts in non-ADS areas. Anyone on my headend cannot get anything but the old DCT boxes 96412).


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jrm01 said:


> It's interesting that everyone seems to take it as a given that *all new cableboxes* being deployed now are cablecard boxes.
> 
> Here in Pitsburgh Comcast has the DCH3416 and 6416 boxes. They are cablecard boxes, but digital-only. They are deploying them in the areas where they have ADS, but then they pull out the *old DCT boxes *from those areas and use them for new accounts in non-ADS areas. Anyone on my headend cannot get anything but the old DCT boxes 96412).


Clearly there are some exceptions and redeployment allowances, which everyone should realize.


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## ASW (Jan 18, 2007)

mfogarty5 said:


> The hdguru's most recent post is about how SDV breaks CableCards. It's a pretty good read, but the part I found most interesting is quoted below.
> 
> "The HD Guru has surveyed several makers of CableCARD ready sets, and all said their sets were never designed to add such a device and even if their respective sets have USB ports, they will not be able to accept such an adapter.
> 
> ...


http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=152093&site=cdn&f_src=lightreading_sitedefault


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## jacksonian (Nov 3, 2003)

So who runs a Cisco digital cable platform? I have TWC and they use Scientific Atlanta hardware.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jacksonian said:


> So who runs a Cisco digital cable platform? I have TWC and they use Scientific Atlanta hardware.


Scientific Atlanta _is_ Cisco now.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

> A Motorola source would not provide any status or a release date, likely missing the promised availability in the second quarter 2008.


When did Motorola ever promise Q2??


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## johnh123 (Dec 7, 2000)

Will the tuning resolver also allow the tivo to get on demand and ppv programming?


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

lofar said:


> And sure as heck, the box does not work without the cable card.. What else is funny is that this is a MS card and they apparently don't offer MS cards in my area. hmmm


Yes, I've had this conversation with a lot of TW techs -- about a year and a half back. If they even admit to having m-cards, they will quickly tell you they are reserved for *their* hardware. All of the stb's they receive (from higher in the TW foodchain) already have the m-card in there with a foil tamper seal over it. Even they aren't allowed to break that seal.

People fail to realize there's a difference between what the cable companies support and what they are required to support. They are required to support anything with Cable Labs Certification(tm). That does not mean they cannot use uncertified equipment themselves. Pretty much all two-way services are proprietary -- there are no SDV, VoD, iPPV, etc. specs from Cable Labs. The cableCARD specs only describe _HOW_ to talk to the headend, not what has to be said. NO -- zero, none, nada -- 3rd party cable receiver (available to the public) has an RF transmitter. Until recently (last year or so) the only certification available was for a UNIDIRECTIONAL device. No device with a transmitter in it (active or not) would pass the certification process, so none have ever been built. The original "prototype" Series 3 was designed a long time ago -- circa 2004?... I forget which CES where it appeared in a DTivo (DSR6000) shell.


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## jy3 (May 3, 2008)

OK, in layman's terms, when will we 'need' this adapter?

Thanks,
Jim
Alexandria, VA


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

When or if your provider starts using Switched Digital Video (SDV) and one or more of the channels that are switched are ones you want to watch.

Al


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## jy3 (May 3, 2008)

So if I understand SDV correctly, this only affects OnDemand and Pay per View? Things I would need to order. What else would be switched? 

-Jim


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

jy3 said:


> So if I understand SDV correctly, this only affects OnDemand and Pay per View? Things I would need to order. What else would be switched?
> 
> -Jim


SDV can/will soon (depends on your provider and market) affect your regular broadcast channels (I currently don't get two channels History HD and TBS HD - others here have it much worse).


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## KraziJoe (Nov 30, 2007)

jy3 said:


> So if I understand SDV correctly, this only affects OnDemand and Pay per View? Things I would need to order. What else would be switched?
> 
> -Jim


There is no date as to when Comcast of Alexandria/Arlington will go to SDV, but it is impending. As more and more HD channels are added they will eventually run out of space and will then switch to SDV. What that means is that some stations will sit at a node and wait for you to select them, they are not automatically sent to your box. It's sort of VoD but with "regular" channels.

With FIOS coming to Alexandria City in 2009-2010, I would expect it sooner than later.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

On Demand and PPV are completely unrelated issues.

SDV allows the cable provider to get more channels through the cable by only transmitting some channels when they are actually being watched.

The adapter is what sends the signal that says "this Tivo is watching or recording this channel".

For those companies that are moving to SDV, not all channels will be moved to SDV, that is, they will still be transmitted all the time. If those channels that are transmitted all the time are the ones you watch, it doesn't matter what is happening on SDV. If one of those channels happens to be one you watch, then, without the adapter, when you record those shows they may or may not be transmitting.

Some providers, like Verizon, have no plan to go to SDV.

Some providers are moving to SDV but are putting low useage channels only on SDV.

Some providers are moving to SDV and may put things like UHD on SDV.

It really depends on your situation and your viewing habbits on how important the adapter is going to be.

Al


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## jy3 (May 3, 2008)

I hope Comcast here in Alexandria/Arlington VA
doesn't start broadcasting SDV before getting the tuning adapters.

Then the next hurdle will be installation/cost the whole nine yards all over again.

I just got my M-card paired and configured properly after a month of getting my TivoHD. I'd hate to go through a similar experience. (since Friday. Knock on wood) 

Anyone know what Comcast's plans regarding SDV and the adapters might be? 


-Jim


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## KraziJoe (Nov 30, 2007)

jy3 said:


> I hope Comcast here in Alexandria/Arlington VA
> doesn't start with the broadcasting SDV before getting the tuning adapters.
> 
> Then the next hurdle will be installation/cost the whole nine yards all over again.
> ...


There are no set dates.


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## joedandrea (Aug 18, 2008)

jy3 said:


> I hope Comcast here in Alexandria/Arlington VA
> doesn't start broadcasting SDV before getting the tuning adapters.


That's exactly what happened with Cablevision (NY area) and all the VOOM Network channels as of May 2008. 

If I understand correctly, CableCARDs were an answer to the Telecommunications Act's provision requiring cable security to be moved to external devices, opening up a competitive market. With SDV that market is knocked out of whack. I appreciate the benefits of SDV in terms of bandwidth usage, but I don't appreciate losing access to channels that I pay for ahead of there being a suitable fix.

This is despite the "HD is free" mantra - I know, but I'm paying for a cable package that _includes_ those channels ... and yes, On Demand isn't available to me either, but OD was _always_ not available w/o a two-way set top box or like device.

When Cablevision arrived to install the CableCARDs, it amounted to inserting the cards, calling in to the office and reading back the IDs. All that for a $50 truck run. Let me guess ... the Cisco/SA STA-1520 will require another $50 truck run to place it in line with the cable feed and connect to the TiVo S3 HD with USB2? It had better not. 

(Yep, I've already expressed my frustration to the FCC, NJBPU and Cablevision.)


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