# Time Warner: Do you really save any $$ by choosing Tivo over the cable DVR?



## klrobinson999 (Aug 26, 2010)

Ordering cable soon for new apartment. If I ditch the Time Warner cable box, I save $7.99 PLUS $9.99 DVR service. (save -17.98). Picking up TiVo for $12.95 plus a $2 monthly CableCard I really only save $3/mo.

Is TiVo worth the hassle for $36/year in savings?

For those with Time Warner, what services and channels do I lose if I go with the TiVo? Just pay-per-view and on-demand?

Thanks for the advice! I guess I just need convincing.

If it matters, I'm near Columbus, OH in the MidOhio TW service area.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

klrobinson999 said:


> Ordering cable soon for new apartment. If I ditch the Time Warner cable box, I save $7.99 PLUS $9.99 DVR service. (save -17.98). Picking up TiVo for $12.95 plus a $2 monthly CableCard I really only save $3/mo.


Well, it varies from community to community, of course, but yes, if you go with month-month service and no multi-service discount, that's the gist of it. If you choose, however, you can go for TiVo's lifetime service. It's a bigger chunk of change up front, but once you amortize the costs - about 2 years give or take - you start saving quite a tidy little bit of cash. With multiple TiVos it can get even better over time. Against that you are rolling the dice the TiVo won't die, be destroyed in a fire or flood, or be stolen.



klrobinson999 said:


> Is TiVo worth the hassle for $36/year in savings?


What hassle? In my estimation, the $36 a year (plus $~150 a year if you go with the lifetime service) is icing on the cake.



klrobinson999 said:


> For those with Time Warner, what services and channels do I lose if I go with the TiVo? Just pay-per-view and on-demand?


That is correct. If you like, you can get a leased STB for those services. Personally, I never used them when I did have an STB.


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## klrobinson999 (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks for the quick reply. Not really into those services, so no STB would be necessary (that's an additional $7.99 again; these user fees are ridiculous!).

I keep hearing the nightmare scenarios of CableCards not working, the Switched Digital/Tuning Adapters causing headaches, and the installers not knowing what in the world they're doing.

I do like the TiVo interface and usability, which is why I'm considering it.


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

I think depending on peoples cable tv dvr rates, tivo ranges from mild cost savings to a mild cost. As long as cable companies continue to offer horid dvrs, tivo is worth it. I've lived in 3 different cities with tivos in all 3, and only had 1 time where the cable company had tivo problems- it was their fault and took another visit by them to fix but that was it- it generally is pretty easy (but you only hear about the problems b/c no one posts to say 'everything went smoothly')


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I have no clue if I am saving money by going with TiVo over Time Warner's DVR. I don't have a clue as to what it costs. I suspect I am not saving money when you factor in the cost of the TiVo itself and the lifetime service I paid for it, plus what I get charged for a cable card.

What I do know is I get to have a TiVo. And that's what matters. I get what I want and like.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

klrobinson999 said:


> Ordering cable soon for new apartment. If I ditch the Time Warner cable box, I save $7.99 PLUS $9.99 DVR service. (save -17.98). Picking up TiVo for $12.95 plus a $2 monthly CableCard I really only save $3/mo.
> 
> Is TiVo worth the hassle for $36/year in savings?


There's two questions here, first is about the savings. Assuming you can get the Tivo at $12.95 (is the $19.95/mo "_deal_" still in effect?) then by the math you've presented, you've saved money. So, you've answered the question posed by the title of the thread yourself.

As far as the second question, I'll answer it by analogy. I own a jeep. I could have got more value for my dollar, better gas mileage, more features, and a better trim level with just about any other vehicle. But, I wanted a jeep. It's the same way with the Tivo, some people just like them. Whether or not it makes financial sense is a secondary question.


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## klrobinson999 (Aug 26, 2010)

The $19.99 "deal" still is in effect, unless I pay $299 for the box new OR opt for the $99 refurbished model -- then it goes to $12.95.

I feel the $3 is immaterial savings, even though TiVo promotes itself as a money-saver.

I do like the Netflix, Amazon, and Blockbuster options, plus the ability to use the iPad app, which I hear is great.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> What I do know is I get to have a TiVo. And that's what matters. I get what I want and like.


This.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

klrobinson999 said:


> I feel the $3 is immaterial savings, even though TiVo promotes itself as a money-saver.


It does? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I've never heard that.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

klrobinson999 said:


> I do like the Netflix, Amazon, and Blockbuster options, plus the ability to use the iPad app, which I hear is great.


That is what the decision is really about. The TiVo is just a flat out better Box if you like the extras.

If you went to DSL forums you likely would hear horror stories about DSL installs. Overall installs go ok, most of the horror involves cards and adapters with older firmware versions and cable back office folks not informed of the process they need to do on the back end systems to correctly setup your account with cable cards and TA.


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## klrobinson999 (Aug 26, 2010)

Kablemodem said:


> It does? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I've never heard that.


from the website:

"And let's not forget, Premiere replaces your cable box, so you can send their box back and save money on your monthly cable bill."

I guess it's technically correct, at $36/year. LOL
I suppose that's 4 1/2 months of Netflix streaming....


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

klrobinson999 said:


> from the website:
> 
> "And let's not forget, Premiere replaces your cable box, so you can send their box back and save money on your monthly cable bill."
> 
> ...


I read that more as a reminder that your costs are offset, not that TiVo is a money saver.

Although with 3 TiVo's all with lifetime service - I can say that I have saved a significant amount of money! :up:


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I think that many people would consider the spending of $5, $10, even $15 *more* per month for Tivo (on top of having to actually buy a Tivo) over a cable co. dvr as worth it. I know I would.
I know many people that have a cable co dvr, but I've never had the opportunity to really check one out to see what it has to offer until my mom got one against my advice this last fall. I had to figure it out in order to show her. She was used to Tivo but didn't want to spend the money on a Premiere. Now she has a Premiere and can enjoy TV again because she can reliably record what she wants to record and she's saving over $5 per month.


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## HallWhite (Feb 1, 2011)

I put in Time Warner when we moved to a new neighborhood about three years ago. Their DVR was simply awful, so I moved to an HD Tivo, a box I had used before. The relative costs were close, with the exception of the purchasing cost of the Tivo DVR, of course. The cable card install by their technician went fine. They used a single card, as I requested. The Tivo was vastly superior to Time Warner's box in speed, user interface, and reliability / accuracy of the guide. The switched digital video adapter, which came later, was a minor annoyance and one of the reasons I finally dumped Time Warner in favor of Direct TV. The adapter would regularly prompt me to verify the channels I receive, before allowing me to watch shows. It wasn't a big deal, but my wife hated it. Hope this helps.


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## klrobinson999 (Aug 26, 2010)

HallWhite said:


> .....The switched digital video adapter, which came later, was a minor annoyance and one of the reasons I finally dumped Time Warner in favor of Direct TV.


I didn't think you could use TiVo with Direct TV? Can you use the older TiVO HD and not the Premiere?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I have no clue if I am saving money by going with TiVo over Time Warner's DVR. I don't have a clue as to what it costs. I suspect I am not saving money when you factor in the cost of the TiVo itself and the lifetime service I paid for it, plus what I get charged for a cable card.
> 
> What I do know is I get to have a TiVo. And that's what matters. I get what I want and like.


That's all fine, well, and good, but I am one of those people that are more interested in trying to keep myself from spending way too much on TV each month. Admittedly, I have to somewhat ignore what I paid for the TiVo boxes, but having to pay a monthly cost that is too far out of range of what I can get the cable company boxes for isn't something I'm interested in. I'll pay a little more for some of the freedom and extras I can get from TiVo, but it needs to be reasonably close to the costs of the cable co. box otherwise I'd have stayed with that box.

Now, for me, Verizon FiOS charges me enough for a single HD DVR box to cover the costs of cable card rentals for 4 devices. If I ignore what I had to pay for Lifetime service on the TiVo boxes (or should I say the cost of boxes with Lifetime on them in a couple of cases, plus the box that I got from Woot and added Lifetime to), then I'm at a breakeven point and have come out well ahead because I will have added 3 additional STBs in my house when I'm done, compared to the single HD DVR that Verizon was renting to me each month.

I like TiVo, my daughter *loves* TiVo but I'll be darned if I want to pay TiVo a boatload of monthly subscription fees just for having TiVo equipment. If I didn't have Lifetime as an option and would have had to go with monthly fees combined with the cable card fees I'd still have DirecTV or I'd have gotten an extra STB from Verizon and lived with it.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

klrobinson999 said:


> I didn't think you could use TiVo with Direct TV? Can you use the older TiVO HD and not the Premiere?


I think what the poster you are responding to was saying is that they wound up with DirecTV because they didn't like their cable provider.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> I think that many people would consider the spending of $5, $10, even $15 *more* per month for Tivo (on top of having to actually buy a Tivo) over a cable co. dvr as worth it. I know I would.
> I know many people that have a cable co dvr, but I've never had the opportunity to really check one out to see what it has to offer until my mom got one against my advice this last fall. I had to figure it out in order to show her. She was used to Tivo but didn't want to spend the money on a Premiere. Now she has a Premiere and can enjoy TV again because she can reliably record what she wants to record and she's saving over $5 per month.


It's nice to think that a bunch of people will pay more for TiVo. As someone that may have stock in TiVo, I really appreciate it :up:

With that said, you admit to being somewhat ignorant when it comes to other DVRs. The Verizon FiOS box (a Motorola HD DVR) actually works relatively well. The biggest issues I had with it was that it didn't have much storage (it would only hold about 30 total hours of HD content) and the monthly rental fee for it was too high. Adding another box just like it would have been stupid, and using it as a whole home DVR would have added additional fees and then I still would have had to rent additional HD STBs for other locations in the house to get service there.

If the cable companies weren't so greedy and so cheap about the boxes they provided, most people would probably find those boxes are adequate. Verizon, Comcast and others have added additional features (iPad Apps, remote scheduling and more) that have made their boxes and service pretty nice. If not for that happening, who knows for sure how hard TiVo would be working to improve their own product offerings.

Anyway, hopefully your mom enjoys her service. Like I said above, I'm not necessarily going to pay that much more for TiVo service and yes, there are a lot of others like me out there.


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## HallWhite (Feb 1, 2011)

Correct. To the best of my knowledge, you can no longer use a Tivo with Direct TV. I went with DTV's HR-24 DVR and I now have an expensive Tivo paper weight in my workshop.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

HallWhite said:


> Correct. To the best of my knowledge, you can no longer use a Tivo with Direct TV.


If you want HD, you are correct. (Until the new DirecTivo is released, again supposedly this year.. has slipped several times.)

But existing DirecTivos work just fine.. (or even a series 1 or series 2 with a separate DirecTV box. I'm not actually recommending that, but it is an option.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

terpfan1980 said:


> Admittedly, I have to somewhat ignore what I paid for the TiVo boxes, but having to pay a monthly cost that is too far out of range of what I can get the cable company boxes for isn't something I'm interested in.


But get *lifetime* subscriptions (which are tied to each box), and amortize the payment over however many months you actually use it. If it lasts several years, as typical, you can save money *AND* not be paying a monthly price.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

mattack said:


> But get *lifetime* subscriptions (which are tied to each box), and amortize the payment over however many months you actually use it. If it lasts several years, as typical, you can save money *AND* not be paying a monthly price.


I have lifetime on my boxes but paid an average of $500 per box and will be paying $4/month for each of 3 boxes. Math isn't my strong suit, but considering I was paying $16/month for the FiOS DVR, it will still take quite a while for me to really get anything that resembles savings out of my investment in TiVo equipment.

The only real advantage to the TiVo equipment is that I can get 4 outlets per month for the same fee I had been paying for 1 Verizon supplied HD DVR, plus I have MRV (unless/until FiOS starts setting the CCI bit  ), TiVo Desktop Plus, etc. Well, that and the fact that the TiVo boxes each have considerably more storage capacity over the wimpy available storage in the FiOS HD DVR boxes. (2TB, 1TB, and soon to be 2TB in my TiVo's compared to something like 250GB in the FiOS HD DVR box)

But factoring in the costs of all of the TiVo boxes and the TiVo Desktop Plus software, the additional remote controls, etc., means I've spent money that will take a long, long time to even think of having gotten value out of. I hope that I'm able to use these boxes for 3 - 5 years and at that point I might really begin to think of the money I paid out as a bit of a bargain. 

$500 / 60 months = $8.33 a month per receiver just in equipment costs over that time, plus the $4/month per receiver for the cable card means $12.33 a month for TV service on top of the monthly subscription fees I pay to Verizon. Uh, yeah, bargain isn't the word for it.

Honestly, I think TiVo needs to keep their fees down in the < $9 month range in order to keep their equipment cost competitive with cable and satellite providers, but right now their pricing seems to be much higher. Hopefully that will change over time. :up:


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## klrobinson999 (Aug 26, 2010)

The $19.99 "deal" just seems ridiculous, doesn't it?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

klrobinson999 said:


> The $19.99 "deal" just seems ridiculous, doesn't it?


When you add in the cost of the cable card, definitely. For someone that is only using over-the-air it's not as bad, but then again someone just using OTA might very well be adding in a Netflix subscription, or be getting Amazon VOD or Blockbuster selections and that too starts adding up.

Just sitting here this morning a reporter is doing a segment with a print reporter that cut the cord. The reporter that cut the cord lists paying for Hulu Plus, Netflix and other items and yet proudly talks of the savings he has over having paid for satellite service. I'm sure he has saved a good bit (he claimed over $1k per year in savings), but he also admits he lost out on most sports (ESPN) as well as missing out on a lot of programming that is on cable channels.

Sadly in the modern era TV costs $$, it's a matter of how much anyone can/will tolerate. For me the $20/month TiVo fee was more than I would tolerate, though the math above shows what I have spent or will have spent over time.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

klrobinson999 said:


> Ordering cable soon for new apartment. If I ditch the Time Warner cable box, I save $7.99 PLUS $9.99 DVR service. (save -17.98). Picking up TiVo for $12.95 plus a $2 monthly CableCard I really only save $3/mo.
> 
> Is TiVo worth the hassle for $36/year in savings?
> 
> ...


A few things. As long as you are getting one TiVo and not two, the experience you have with TiVo will ultimately be better than with TWC STB. You'll need a Tuning Adapter as well as a cable card. The TA should be free. Next, I always like to diversify my expendatures, so that one company doesn't have complete control of my environment. By using a TiVo, whatever you record on it is yours, so you don't have to experience loss of recordings because of a glitch in the main office or if their billing system disagrees with yours.

For a few channels you'll be able to use TiVo to Go(TTG). But, on the negative side, you won't be able to use TiVo to Go on most of your channels. Time Warner sets a Broadcast Flag (CCI Byte of 0x02) on all channels but those mandated by law (Locals) to be unprotected. TWC equipment won't allow you to do this either, but if you are expecting to get that for movie channels it isn't happening.

I'd also verify that the monthly sub is 12.95 and that TiVo isn't still doing the 19.95 per month "special" on all premieres.


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## jayn_j (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm actually paying $2 more a month with the TIVO replacing one of my two DVRs. When I replace the second one, it will cost me $5/month more due to TWC weird pricing. That's at the $12.95 rate.

My issue was that I simply couldn't stand how TWC lobotomized my DVR over a period of 6 months, killing external drive support, favorites list, 30 second skip, etc. These were all features I had learned to rely on, so I was willing to pay a bit more to get them back.

I didn't jump fast enough on the last $70 woot deal, so I'm waiting for it to roll around again.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Stormspace said:


> I'd also verify that the monthly sub is 12.95 and that TiVo isn't still doing the 19.95 per month "special" on all premieres.


You can buy refurb Premieres for $100 and get $12.95 monthly today, right from Tivo's website. Some people have been able to activate lifetime for $299 w/MSD on them too.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

jayn_j said:


> I'm actually paying $2 more a month with the TIVO replacing one of my two DVRs. When I replace the second one, it will cost me $5/month more due to TWC weird pricing. That's at the $12.95 rate.
> 
> My issue was that I simply couldn't stand how TWC lobotomized my DVR over a period of 6 months, killing external drive support, favorites list, 30 second skip, etc. These were all features I had learned to rely on, so I was willing to pay a bit more to get them back.
> 
> I didn't jump fast enough on the last $70 woot deal, so I'm waiting for it to roll around again.


Not that I don't appreciate the deal I got from a fellow forum member here for the XL that I have (as I really did appreciate that deal), but if I had any clue at all that Woot would have offered up those $70 refurbs and they would have been eligible for lifetime, I would have skipped the second Premiere that I bought entirely and just gotten two of those Woot refurbs and done the drive upgrade myself. I paid more for my second box (regular Premiere with 2TB drive upgrade already done and lifetime already on it) than I probably needed to and that is part of what will make it take much longer for me to see anything that really resembles savings on switching to TiVo.

The Woot boxes were a great deal, setting me back about $370 for a lifetime box plus the cost of a 2TB drive (about $60 after rebates and other credits that I had available to use when I bought it), definitely a lot less than the going rates for a 2TB Premiere with lifetime on eBay.


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## HallWhite (Feb 1, 2011)

mattack said:


> If you want HD, you are correct. (Until the new DirecTivo is released, again supposedly this year.. has slipped several times.)
> 
> But existing DirecTivos work just fine.. (or even a series 1 or series 2 with a separate DirecTV box. I'm not actually recommending that, but it is an option.)


I simply assumed HD was a requirement. I had an HR 10-250 for several years when I was with DTV the first time, but realized its days were numbered when DTV brought its new bird online to accommodate all of its new HD channels. After relocating and signing up with Time Warner, the main thing that kept me there for about three years was having Tivo. I kept waiting for the promised arrival of the new Direct Tivo, but finally ran out of patience and made the jump to DTV. I have been pleasantly surprised by their latest DVR, the HR 24.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

klrobinson999 said:


> from the website:
> 
> "And let's not forget, Premiere replaces your cable box, so you can send their box back and save money on your monthly cable bill."
> 
> ...


I think it's more accurate to say that you are echanging the cable box for a cable card, unless you go with basic cable.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

terpfan1980 said:


> I have lifetime on my boxes but paid an average of $500 per box and will be paying $4/month for each of 3 boxes. Math isn't my strong suit, but considering I was paying $16/month for the FiOS DVR, it will still take quite a while for me to really get anything that resembles savings out of my investment in TiVo equipment.
> 
> The only real advantage to the TiVo equipment is that I can get 4 outlets per month for the same fee I had been paying for 1 Verizon supplied HD DVR, plus I have MRV (unless/until FiOS starts setting the CCI bit  ), TiVo Desktop Plus, etc. Well, that and the fact that the TiVo boxes each have considerably more storage capacity over the wimpy available storage in the FiOS HD DVR boxes. (2TB, 1TB, and soon to be 2TB in my TiVo's compared to something like 250GB in the FiOS HD DVR box)
> 
> ...


Sorry, didn't want to quote so much, but.. You're obviously also ignoring the better interface (if it is indeed better), and the fact that you have more tuners.. (I'm not sure if by 'outlets' you literally just meant cable cards, or that many separate Tivos.)

But it seems to me you're saying you paid $16/month for THEIR DVR.. now you're paying $12.33/month.. so you obviously are saving even now.. It's VERY likely that they will last at least 3 years. It's the hard drive that goes bad usually, and you can replace that (out of warranty). [I actually had a hard drive _I_ added go bad recently.] But if the cable DVR goes bad, you're 100% sure of losing all of the programming.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

klrobinson999 said:


> The $19.99 "deal" just seems ridiculous, doesn't it?


Only on the surface.
You get a $299 tivo and a year of service for $340 (not including tax)
At the regular prices that would cost $454.xx
With the $9.95 MSD rate it would cost $418.xx
and if you could us the grandfathered $6.95 MSD rate it would cost $382.xx

Saving roughly $42, $78, or $114 is not ridiculous.


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## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

scandia101 said:


> Only on the surface.
> You get a $299 tivo and a year of service for $340 (not including tax)
> At the regular prices that would cost $454.xx
> With the $9.95 MSD rate it would cost $418.xx
> ...


The flaw in your math is the 299 price for the Tivo - even before the "promo" $99 pricing nobody was paying 299 for one. And the best route to go is still probably a refurb direct from Tivo for $99 with either 12.95 or 9.95 MSD if eligible. Of course, lifetime math > anything else if you amortize for 2 years or more. If one plans to stay with cable for the foreseeable future, a $99 Tivo Prem and a $299 lifetime = $398 for lifetime service, which is only, what, 58 bucks more than ONE YEAR of service according to your math above? When stated like that, it's not much of a comparison at all, in my mind.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

TheWGP said:


> The flaw in your math is the 299 price for the Tivo - even before the "promo" $99 pricing nobody was paying 299 for one...


The TiVo Payment Plan states otherwise. I'm not going to do what I usually do and quote the specifics. I'm tired of doing other's homework for them...


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TheWGP said:


> The flaw in your math is the 299 price for the Tivo - even before the "promo" $99 pricing nobody was paying 299 for one. And the best route to go is still probably a refurb direct from Tivo for $99 with either 12.95


It's not a flaw at all. The $299 price is available now with a regular subscription rate. What happened in the past is irrelevant to anyone spending money on a Tivo today.

As for refurbs, a lot of people don't want to buy someone else's reject.


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## Robbdoe1 (Dec 29, 2008)

scandia101 said:


> As for refurbs, a lot of people don't want to buy someone else's reject.


IMHO: I agree with you 100% on that one.

People talk of refurbs here like they are brand new units which they are not. You roll the dice and take your chances.

Robb


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## lamotte (Oct 11, 2004)

not really sure if u lose some money or not. i hated the dvr i had from comcast before moving and getting time warner in early september so far the only problems i had were getting the cable card installed properly it took a total of 6 visits . 3 were no shows and the first was awesome as the agent for time warner did not have my cable card as requested but spend about 45 minutes with me telling me horror stories of all the problems i would be having in the future.

so far it has been great no problems at all so far good luck


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

mattack said:


> Sorry, didn't want to quote so much, but.. You're obviously also ignoring the better interface (if it is indeed better), and the fact that you have more tuners.. (I'm not sure if by 'outlets' you literally just meant cable cards, or that many separate Tivos.)
> 
> But it seems to me you're saying you paid $16/month for THEIR DVR.. now you're paying $12.33/month.. so you obviously are saving even now.. It's VERY likely that they will last at least 3 years. It's the hard drive that goes bad usually, and you can replace that (out of warranty). [I actually had a hard drive _I_ added go bad recently.] But if the cable DVR goes bad, you're 100% sure of losing all of the programming.


I'll wind up with 4 different systems/boxes that will have a total of 8 tuners. At this point I have 2 of the boxes in use (a Premiere, and a Premiere XL) with M-cards. I have 2 more M-cards coming to go with another Premiere that I have and also to go with a Ceton InfiniTV card that I bought and have been waiting seemingly forever for. Yeah, a lot of TV.

The Ceton card pretty much will win out on the monthly cost since it was $400 total with no monthly fees required. Assuming I can use it for the same period I used for the TiVos (estimated at 60 months, or, in other words 5 years) I'd be paying $6.67/month for the cost of the Ceton card. Add in the $3.99/month for the FiOS cable card rental and that goes up to $10.66/month compared to the $12.33 that I'd be paying for the TiVos.

Hopefully all of these systems/devices wind up being usable for 5+ years in which case the monthly cost goes down for each additional month of service (assuming the FiOS gods don't jack up the costs for cable card rentals).

In cable card costs alone I'll have gotten 4 outlets (systems/devices) each with multiple tuners. 2 tuners per TiVo box and 4 tuners in the InfiniTV card so a total of 10 tuners in the household able to record at any point in time. Yeah, that's a lot of TV. With just my daughter and myself in the household now, I probably don't need that many tuners (actually I definitely don't need that many). On the other hand, when my daughter moves out on her own later I'll probably wind up selling her the TiVo that she now considers hers. I'll be fair about the price for it and at that point I'll try to get another device that will cover my needs for the TV that would be losing the TiVo.

Interface wise, I give the TiVo good marks but at the same time the HD interface is clearly not done. Feature wise -- with TiVo desktop plus -- the TiVo would currently beat the FiOS HD DVR boxes, and again, the TiVo boxes all beat the wimpy storage levels that the FiOS HD DVR boxes come with. In terms of recording content, remote scheduling and other features the boxes are about equal though.

Personally I'm still of the opinion that the monthly fees for all of these boxes is still higher than it should be. $6 - $8 a month is the most a cable company DVR or TiVo should cost in terms of monthly fees. At prices higher than that customers start to question just how much the DVR boxes are really worth. Lower than that it seems a no-brainer to get the DVR and use it. Add in the idea that just about all of these DVR boxes come with advertising on them in some way, it seems the monthly costs should be even lower still.

Anyway, I like the TiVo boxes and am glad I got them, but to be fair I seriously thought about just grabbing Media Center Extender boxes or just using the Xbox 360 boxes that I already have in conjunction with the Ceton card. The costs would certainly have been very competitive, but in that particular area I do think the TiVo wins, especially since my daughter was already very familiar with it.


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## jayn_j (Oct 29, 2010)

Robbdoe1 said:


> IMHO: I agree with you 100% on that one.
> 
> People talk of refurbs here like they are brand new units which they are not. You roll the dice and take your chances.
> 
> Robb


Sometimes true, sometimes not. TIVO provided a trial period where the unit could be returned. The vast majority of these units fall under the catagory of "Try it you'll like it. Sorry, nope."


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

jayn_j said:


> ...The vast majority of these units fall under the catagory of "Try it you'll like it. Sorry, nope."


Can you share where you found this information please?


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## Robbdoe1 (Dec 29, 2008)

orangeboy said:


> Can you share where you found this information please?


This, I gotta hear.

Robb


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

I had heard the horror stories about CCs and delayed getting digital cable. I recently bit the bullet and got digital with a MCard in my Tivo. It went mostly okay. There were some signal problems and they had to replace the splitter. It's been 4 months now and it's been rock solid.

It's hard to say if the extra value of a tivo would be worth it to you. Everyone is different. It's like kitchen knives. You can get a $5 knife at Target which basically does the job, or you can get a $70 knife that fits in your hand perfectly and you smile every time you chop something up. I use my tivo all the time so I'm glad to pay the extra money for something which is a big part of my life. If I rarely watched TV it might not be as worth it to pay extra for tivo.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> That is what the decision is really about. The TiVo is just a flat out better Box if you like the extras.


It's a flat out better box, period. Indeed, most of the "extras", with a handful of very important exceptions, are not terribly important to me. It's the TiVo's core functionality, along with the fact I own the box and can do anything I damned well please with it, that is most important to me. The availability of 3rd party apps is also extremely important.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Robbdoe1 said:


> IMHO: I agree with you 100% on that one.
> 
> People talk of refurbs here like they are brand new units which they are not.


For any device, infant mortality rates are the highest. This is true whether the device is as simple as a table knife, or as complex as the $75,000 fiber muxes we purchase on a daily basis. As long as the vendor stands behind his warranty, and has a warranty substantially equal to or better than the new device vendor, we are quite as happy or happier to purchase used equipment. As long as the vendor implements proper bench testing and QC procedures, their products have lower failure rates than new.



Robbdoe1 said:


> You roll the dice and take your chances.


This is true of any device, new or used. The only TiVo I have had fail did so within 30 days of purchase. The rest have all been running for years. I bought my current automobile used. It's had no more problems than ones I purchased new, one of which caught fire and burned to the ground.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> As for refurbs, a lot of people don't want to buy someone else's reject.


The question is, "Why?" For most people it is a just a knee-jerk reaction based upon the ridiculous notion that "new is better". On the flip side of that coin, I see people in this forum livid because a device they have purchased new is not functioning, as if being a new device somehow should make it less likely to fail.

Every purchase involves a risk. Purchasing used equipment involves certain elevated risks compared to a new device, with the benefit of lower price. If one properly evaluates those risks and chooses not to purchase based upon personal criteria, then that is fine, but to simply dismiss purchasing used goods based upon some silly prejudice is just foolish. We all know what happens to a fool and his money.


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