# Lost - 3/28 "Expose"



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

One word.

Para - lyzed.  

I guess the haters get their grizzly fate, huh.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

It was interesting as a "stand alone" episode and nice to see a few old characters. But it didn't seem to move the overall plot forward at all. First we wasted time with Libby and Ana-Lucia (I actually had to look up Ana-Lucia because I had forgotten the character's name because she was _so_ important), then Eko, now these two... So much filler, so much time wasted, so much contempt for the writers.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

I like how they explained his bathroom visit in the Pearl. I wonder, did they re-stage a lot of the crash, or just do some heavy-duty digital insertion? Maybe a mid?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

This is an episode worth talking about!

For one thing, even though it could be considered "stand-alone", I loved how every "mystery" introduced in this hour was explained in the same hour, and we even had an answer about why Paulo went to the bathroom in the Pearl hatch.

Just a great touch at the end that they were buried alive! The fans hated them, so it was fitting!

Now maybe they can bring back Rose and Bernard!


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## Chester_Lampwick (Jul 19, 2004)

Watched for the first time today. I guess the eye candy lured me in. I was heavy on the fast forward so I didn't pick-up on much of the story. Is this a deserted island? What makes the TV and toilet operate? That second plane didn't seem damaged at all either.....


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Good episode. Very Twilight Zone type ending. 

"Who the hell's Niki?"


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Chester_Lampwick said:


> Watched for the first time today. I guess the eye candy lured me in. I was heavy on the fast forward so I didn't pick-up on much of the story. Is this a deserted island? What makes the TV and toilet operate? That second plane didn't seem damaged at all either.....


Seriously? You'd like us to summarize 2.5 seasons of Lost? Here's a summary: Riddles wrapped in enigmas plague the survivors of Oceanic fight 815.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Chester_Lampwick said:


> Watched for the first time today. I guess the eye candy lured me in. I was heavy on the fast forward so I didn't pick-up on much of the story. Is this a deserted island? What makes the TV and toilet operate? That second plane didn't seem damaged at all either.....


You've got to be kidding me.


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## rufus_x_s (Jul 14, 2004)

ElJay said:


> It was interesting as a "stand alone" episode and nice to see a few old characters. But it didn't seem to move the overall plot forward at all. First we wasted time with Libby and Ana-Lucia (I actually had to look up Ana-Lucia because I had forgotten the character's name because she was _so_ important), then Eko, now these two... So much filler, so much time wasted, so much contempt for the writers.


What's your hurry? Are you bitter because you didn't get to see the forensics hatch? Myself, I'm enjoying the ride. This was one of my all-time favorite episodes. So much fun. We're apparently in the hands of the masters here.


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## Scaramanga (Jun 18, 2006)

I, like many others, did not like the Nikki and Paulo characters when they hit the scene last fall because they felt forced upon us. However, my hat is off to the writers, who made the payoff worth the annoyance. This was a brilliant episode, even though it did little or nothing to advance the mythology. I know many will disagree, but I'm sure just as many enjoyed this episode too.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

We should ask the mods to add a poll to this thread to see how many people liked this episode and how many didn't. 

For the record, I liked it.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I loved the way they were trying to figure out the mystery. They were actually talking to each other and not hiding things. 

I did enjoy seeing familiar faces from season one. And Billy Dee. I can't say this is one of my favorite eps, but I did like it and it was a nice break from the tension of the others and locke and jack and such.


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## Scaramanga (Jun 18, 2006)

betts4 said:


> I loved the way they were trying to figure out the mystery. They were actually talking to each other and not hiding things.
> 
> I did enjoy seeing familiar faces from season one. And Billy Dee. I can't say this is one of my favorite eps, but I did like it and it was a nice break from the tension of the others and locke and jack and such.


Agreed. I was looking forward to seeing the aftermath of Lockes' discovery of his father on the island, and completly forgot about that until I read your post! That is how good this episode was......


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

GREAT episode.. I now think it was entirely worth having them in the show.  Great mechanism to let us see some of what happened previously, but overall just fun to watch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Scaramanga said:


> I, like many others, did not like the Nikki and Paulo characters when they hit the scene last fall because they felt forced upon us. However, my hat is off to the writers, who made the payoff worth the annoyance. This was a brilliant episode, even though it did little or nothing to advance the mythology. I know many will disagree, but I'm sure just as many enjoyed this episode too.


Yeah, I thought it was great that they not only got rid of characters that everybody hated, but also made fun of the fact that nobody knows who they are, and showed that they've been an integral part of the show all along.

Holy Zelig, Batman!

(Not to mention a payday for a lot of old, familiar faces...)


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

I thought it was a pretty decent episode. It reminds me of a really good movie I just watched "11:14", about 2 car accidents and the telling of the story from several peoples perspective. There are several movies like this. Anyhow, this is a LOST thread . . . 
This also shows that there is more that goes on, on the island than we see, so many past theories about people not talking can somewhat be put to rest with this episode. Them finding the pearl station like that was really an interesting twist, hmm even a twist of what I just said above, apparently Nikki and Palo, never told the other Losties about this station.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Don't forget we also got back story with Ben and Juliet spying on Jack, and Ben revealed his plans to use Walt. I was actually shocked when Juliet asked Ben why they were doing this - and he answered!


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

I thought this was a fantastic episode, even though the "feel" was quite a bit different than your usual episode of Lost (reminded me a bit of the lighter X-Files episodes in that regard.)

"...and we all know what happens to guest stars."


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

The very fact this episode could (almost) be a stand-alone episode makes it out of place in the LOST universe. And that makes it less interesting to me. What's the point of spending one entire show developing the back story of two people who were never there, and are now gone? (Yes, I know this is Lost and they may not be really gone...) No interaction with other characters, back story didn't cross any other Losties (other than random passes in the airport), and it doesn't even advance the overall story arc. Even the glimpses of Ben & Juliet didn't really tell us anything we didn't know or assume. Yes, it was cute how so many previous events were seen from another POV (like why Paolo went to the bathroom many episodes ago when they visited the Pearl Hatch), but so what?

I guess I'm peeved for another reason. I had read some comments the creators/producers made about tonight's episode. (These would be considered spoilers under the rules.) Unlike ABC and their oft misleading previews, Cuse & Lindelof have never made grandiose statements that didn't pan out. Until now. Here are a few things they said (I'll spoilerize anyway, even though this episode is past, since it falls outside the "show")



Spoiler



* The Nikki and Paulo episode will be a good one and the title is called Exposé, with an accent, and it will answer a big mythological question
* We will learn more about Locke's motivations
* The gay character will appear in Exposé
* Charlie's about to get his comeuppance for kidnapping Sun last season. "That is getting resolved in an upcoming episode," exec producer Carlton Cuse tells me. "Sun finally finds out who actually did that to her. It takes place in another character's episode, but it becomes an important ancillary part of that episode."



_edited to add:_ I did enjoy this episode, so I guess that's worth something. And I have never been in the "where are the answers?" group. I guess I just wasn't expecting a side trip this far from the main journey.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Interesting too that Palo got to hear Ben and Juliet talk about Jack and such. 

Quite amusing that Palo and Nikki did the thing we were wondering why Jack, Sayid and company weren't doing...exploring more. They found the hatch, the plane and the diamonds. They were LEARNING about the island.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

A few things I really liked:

* "Let's not end up like them" meaning Boone and Shannon. Well, you did end up exactly like them. Dead and buried (not in that order) on the island.
* Paolo commenting that he would get killed if he tried to go explore that plane. Right about that one.
* All the old faces and working Paolo and Nikki into scenes where we had previously not seen them. I really would like to watch the first episode again to see how well they did with the continuity of that first scene at the crash site.
* Seeing Ben and Juliet spying on Jack.


I did not see the paralysis coming at all until she threw the spider and even then I did not expect them to get buried alive. I knew it was going to be close though because that scene was 8 hours before the burial. I really expected them to wake up in time to not get buried. Boy was I wrong.  

I loved this and give it :up: :up: :up: 

By the way, what traffic violations were these two guilty of?


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

stalemate said:


> By the way, what traffic violations were these two guilty of?


_driving_ Lost fans to distraction!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"Why are you hitting on random guys?"


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I loved, loved, loved, loved this episode!!

I thought it was brilliant the way they went back and explained so many of the things that people were *****ing about earlier. Mostly the fact that these two characters just showed up out of nowhere. I have a feeling that this was planned all along and the writers knew just where they were going with it all.

:up: :up: :up: 

This was just a fun episode to watch!


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

ElJay said:


> It was interesting as a "stand alone" episode and nice to see a few old characters. But it didn't seem to move the overall plot forward at all. First we wasted time with Libby and Ana-Lucia (I actually had to look up Ana-Lucia because I had forgotten the character's name because she was _so_ important), then Eko, now these two... So much filler, so much time wasted, so much contempt for the writers.


I don't get this complaint. What time was wasted? Those characters were part of the story. The point of the show is to tell a story...


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

I liked this episode and as someone else mentioned, thought of the Twilight Zone at the end.

As soon as Artz was talking about the spiders, I figured that would come into play. How stupid do you have to be to not to think using one could backfire? And apparently she didn't remember the part about all the male spiders showing up.

Pissed me off that Sawyer tossed the diamonds into the grave. Reminded me of


Spoiler



Titanic


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

This was a great episode. It was great that they tied this episode into scenes we had seen before and that the writers included several nods to those who complained about Nikki and Paulo.

Hurley had some good one-liners, too.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

scottykempf said:


> Good episode. Very Twilight Zone type ending.


I was going to say like an Edgar Allan Poe story. Same idea.

Loved the episode, and how it pulled out a thread - the Niki and Paolo thread - that we didn't even treally know was a thread. But that makes me wonder a little bit - did the Lost writers really have that thread planned the whole time, or did they make it up after the fact to pull together otherwise rand appearances by Niki and Paolo?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> But that makes me wonder a little bit - did the Lost writers really have that thread planned the whole time, or did they make it up after the fact to pull together otherwise rand appearances by Niki and Paolo?


Would it make any difference?


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

stalemate said:


> I knew it was going to be close though because that scene was 8 hours before the burial. I really expected them to wake up in time to not get buried. Boy was I wrong.


Same here. I did *not* expect them to be buried alive!


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

JMikeD said:


> Would it make any difference?


Go check the latest Battlestar Galactica thread for plenty of people who say it would.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

modnar said:


> I don't get this complaint. What time was wasted? Those characters were part of the story. The point of the show is to tell a story...


I think, for some people, if the story does not directly involve "the others" or some of the ongoing island mysteries, it is considered not really part of the story. I get caught up in that from time to time, but like you kind of said, the main thing is to just enjoy the journey. This was a great episode.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

stalemate said:


> Go check the latest Battlestar Galactica thread for plenty of people who say it would.


Oh, I don't think I need to get involved in any more of these.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

JMikeD said:


> Would it make any difference?


Not to my enjoyment of the episode. Just curious in a "how do the writers work" kind of way.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Did you guys see a "previously on Lost" this week? At least here it started right up with Nikki running through the jungle.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> Did you guys see a "previously on Lost" this week? At least here it started right up with Nikki running through the jungle.


Same here.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

drew2k said:


> Don't forget we also got back story with Ben and Juliet spying on Jack, and Ben revealed his plans to use Walt. I was actually shocked when Juliet asked Ben why they were doing this - and he answered!


Michael, not Walt


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

mqpickles said:


> Did you guys see a "previously on Lost" this week? At least here it started right up with Nikki running through the jungle.


No "previously". Fitting, because the whole episode was basically a "previously on lost".


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

bdlucas said:


> No "previously". Fitting, because the whole episode was basically a "previously on lost".


Good point. Or a"previously not shown on Lost." I wasn't sure because of local storm coverage.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Oh, and I loved when Paolo said he didn't trust Artz. "We should have asked Ethen for help." Great judge of character that one.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

drew2k said:


> This is an episode worth talking about!
> 
> For one thing, even though it could be considered "stand-alone", I loved how every "mystery" introduced in this hour was explained in the same hour, and we even had an answer about why Paulo went to the bathroom in the Pearl hatch.


Yeah, this was an awesome "stand-alone" episode. Interesting stuff with Ben and Juliet.

I couldn't believe they actually went through with killing Nikki and Paolo! 

I never understood why they were so disliked.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I never understood why they were so disliked.


 I think it's because we think the producers were kind of playing us for fools, sticking these people in during season 3 and acting like they've been there all along. They did a fairly good job of winking at us about it though, like with Sawyer saying "Who the hell are you?" every once in a while.

Ata ny rate, I think we're justified in disliking them now. Both were murderous, conniving and stupid.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Oh gawd, an entire episode devoted to the two "win a guest spot on LOST" winners! I'm sorry, but they're still not good actors.

Being on the west coast, I am only 17 minutes into it, but so far it has a very "Back to the Future Part II" / "Trials and Tribble-ations" feel to it....sticking characters into scenes that we didn't see before (you KNOW I wanted to say WEREN'T there before, but I can't really prove that).

May the end justify the means! 40 mins to go!


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

atrac said:


> May the end justify the means! 40 mins to go!


Keep watching and stay out of this thread until you are done!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> I think it's because we think the producers were kind of playing us for fools, sticking these people in during season 3 and acting like they've been there all along.


Well, they have said from the beginning that there are 40+ survivors, and we've dealt with, what, less than half of that. Why would anyone be surprised or pissed off if they decide to shift some of the story to some of those that haven't been shown before?


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## jurysch (May 18, 2005)

Hmph. Yeah, good standalone episode, an entertaining hour. I kinda have a feeling this is one of those that when someone goes back to watch the whole Lost series on DVD years from now they'll just skip over this one, remembering "oh yeah, this is the one where they killed off those no-names."

Good little mystery and all, but what did this accomplish? Can't we all just admit by this point we're just waiting to see how it ends, or at least a clear explanation on just what's gone on on this island over countless episodes?

This was another example of the previous week's promo for an episode totally overhyping the actual content. It seemed all wicked with Sun talking about digging a grave. In reality, the actual revelation of why she said that was 1% of the episode and hardly compelling.

Will someone please just agree with me that we're still watching week after week because we've been in on it from the start and we just want some answers already?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Vincent knew they weren't dead.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> Vincent knew they weren't dead.


Aha, that explains that scene then!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jurysch said:


> Will someone please just agree with me that we're still watching week after week because we've been in on it from the start and we just want some answers already?


I can't. My philosophy is a "getting there is half the fun" type of thing with Lost. What do you want? One episode that ties everything up in a neat bow? What then? Maybe you should just give it up for now until the series finale. 

We all know we're probably in this for a 5 year ride, so there's no use in complaining NOW that we're not getting any answers. We have at LEAST one more season, and probably more than two left (2 + the remainder of 3).


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

They keep giving us dates, so we now know it's been 84 days since the crash. Does anyone think the tsunami will still factor in this storyline?


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Vincent knew they weren't dead.


Thank you for pointing that out...I completely would not have noticed that. 

I also loved the "8 hours ago" caption. So wicked!

Not a bad episode really. The main plot was definitely more "Twilight Zone" or "Tales from the Darkside" than "Lost," but it was fun.


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

As a standalone episode, it was OK. Interesting to see how they worked things in.

But, as a followup to last weeks episode, it's a total piece of crap.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Smeeking here:

What a strange episode! When it started, I was convinced we weren't watching Lost, and thought my trusty TiVo had messed up. In fact, I was so annoyed I was going to go check the history, todo list, newspaper, etc., but my husband told me to STFU. When I saw Billy Dee, I KNEW he was wrong.

He wasn't.

It got weirder and weirder. I liked how they did some CGI edits or whatever, with old footage. I swear Hurley has lost weight. But, it was SO out of place. The story was interesting enough to keep me going, and Sawyer shirtless will do that anyway, and the pay-off at the end was worth it......but there were problems too. I recall them having to dynamite the hatch open, and these two didn't even have to dig dirt off of it.....

...all in all an entertaining tale....

but.....

....Are you listening Lost writers? No more. If you keep introducing new characters using old scenes and making mysteries out of stuff that hasn't happened, I think this show will go down quick. I mean quick. Once is confusing and amusing. If you wanted to confound us again, success! But, if it's a lazy writing trick and you are going to stretch the show out with this.......see ya.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I reeally liked this episode. Loved the scene with Vincent and loved the scene in the Pearl-however....where was Jack when Ben and Juliette were watching him? It didn't look like the Swan.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I couldn't believe they actually went through with killing Nikki and Paolo!


how do we know they are really dead?


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

justapixel said:


> I recall them having to dynomite the hatch open, and these two didn't even have to dig dirt off of it.....all in all an entertaining tale....


The hatch in this episode was the second one, "the Pearl"


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I can't. My philosophy is a "getting there is half the fun" type of thing with Lost.


Yup. Me, too.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jurysch said:


> Will someone please just agree with me that we're still watching week after week because we've been in on it from the start and we just want some answers already?


Nope, sorry.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

LOL, this is like every Lost thread for the last three years. No matter how AWESOME the episode was, there are always posts saying they hated it and question why they still watch. We really need to create two separate Lost threads every week.

For those who still dump on the show, here's a clue about this season for ya: *LOST IS BACK, BABY!*

"Blah, blah, it didn't advance the story in the way I wanted, blah, they didn't address what I wanted them to address, blah, blah, blah, the episode wasn't about what my preconceived idea of what the episode was about, blah." Who cares? Sit back and enjoy the ride.

One thing we did find out though: Billy Dee is the Cobra. 

Razzle Dazzle!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I think Rod Serling refered to it as an O Henry twist.



justapixel said:


> The story was interesting enough to keep me going, and Sawyer shirtless will do that anyway, and the pay-off at the end was worth it......but there were problems too. I recall them having to dynamite the hatch open, and these two didn't even have to dig dirt off of it.....


Uhm, no.

This was the hatch that was under the drug smuggler's plane.
In fact, you hear Ben telling them to cover the hatch with the plane.

Put me down in the "Liked the episode" column. I thought it was fun and interesting.

Although I have to wonder, how hard is it to dig yourself out of several feet of sand....

And as for next week,


Spoiler



Catfight! Catfight!


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

By the way, my memory of season 1 is failing me. Why was Boone looking for a pen?


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Let me be clear.

I love Lost for the characters. I don't really care about the mystery.

Introducing new characters is confusing, especially when they did it in such a weird and jolting way. I don't want them to do it that way again.

But, I LOVE this show and I'll watch as long as it keeps me entertained. And, it did tonight, because it was different.

I realize I'm one of the few Lost fans who don't know the numbers, or can't remember details about the hatch, or whatever.  Since it's character-driven for me, they need to expand on the characters, not insert useless ones that have no meaning. If they keep doing that, using old footage, it's going to get pretty old, pretty quick I think. And, the mystery fans are REALLY going to revolt!


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

Finally was able to watch the show tonight. I just wanted to add my two cents worth.

I REALLY enjoyed this episode. As long as they don't happen too often, I think it's great to have standalone episodes in the middle of these types of shows (I always loved the X-Files standalones).

I think I'll check out the commentary on this episode. I'd really be interested to see how they did the crash scene (recreated or reimaged)

I knew once the spider was introduced early on that it was the cause of the death, although I didn't know they were just paralyzed.

I was waiting for a "Carrie" moment at the end of the episode and see Nikki's hand pop out of the grave.

What's with disliking characters named Nikki (I'm thinking of Heroes)?

I liked how they played on the bad-actor complaint from the fans by making her a struggling bad actress doing a guest role in a Baywatch type show (bad actors galore).

Billy Dee Williams is now a part of the Lost universe. How cool is that! Maybe Carrie Fisher will do a bit part next week.

Now onto continuing the real storyline next week!


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

laststarfighter said:


> By the way, my memory of season 1 is failing me. Why was Boone looking for a pen?


Was someone (Jack?) doing a tracheotomy?


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## LouCipher (Nov 13, 2002)

drew2k said:


> Don't forget we also got back story with Ben and Juliet spying on Jack, and Ben revealed his plans to use Walt. I was actually shocked when Juliet asked Ben why they were doing this - and he answered!





cherry ghost said:


> Michael, not Walt


Yeah, but based on what we have seen Ben do and how he manipulates, it is conceivable that Walt was taken to lure Michael, yada yada yada, Jack does the surgery. I interpreted the scene with Ben & Juliet to mean it all could be an elaborate chain of events planned by Ben so that he could get his surgery - triggered by the kidnapping of Walt or a prior event (plane crash?). Plans within plans within plans.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Chester_Lampwick said:


> Watched for the first time today. I guess the eye candy lured me in. I was heavy on the fast forward so I didn't pick-up on much of the story. Is this a deserted island? What makes the TV and toilet operate? That second plane didn't seem damaged at all either.....


In the distant future, a race of intelligent polar bears round up the last of the remaining humans and drop them off on an island with false memories. They have exactly 108 days to find all the pages of the manuscript to the only known copy of the great work Bad Twin to appease Smokey, king of the polar bears. The other group of humans that played the game 20 years ago on the same island must try and stop them, or their supply of fish biscuits will be withheld.

Wait till you see season 2!


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Chester_Lampwick said:


> Watched for the first time today. I guess the eye candy lured me in. I was heavy on the fast forward so I didn't pick-up on much of the story. Is this a deserted island? What makes the TV and toilet operate? That second plane didn't seem damaged at all either.....


While you're at it, can someone explain the plot to me so I will know whether or not it has been advanced.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

justapixel said:


> Let me be clear.
> 
> I love Lost for the characters. I don't really care about the mystery.
> 
> ...


These were NOT new characters, just minor ones, so I don't understand what was confusing. This episode may not have advanced the main plot very much, but it certainly filled in a few details, and was a fun departure with a great Hitchcock-worthy twist. I would have no problem if there were a few more like it, and I am just as interested in the big mystery as anyone. I hope that every survivor of Oceanic Flight 815 gets a full episode.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Really liked this episode. You just can't have 22 episodes at 44 minutes each of the kind of tension, and big revelations that you'd find in a last episode of a season...

Some episodes are going to be a little slower, and some might not even advance the story at all.

As long as it's an entertaining episode of TV, i don't really mind it, because I know the next episode will be back to the main story.

Which is why having 16 in a row uninterupted is a godsend, because I wouldn't this episode to be one before a 3 or 4 week break.

-smak-


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## rufus_x_s (Jul 14, 2004)

I loved this episode and I don't want to analyze everything to death (or paralysis), but they might have opened up a plot hole with this one. If Nikki and Paolo new about the other hatch, they might have mentioned it when they were planning on blowing up the door to the first hatch. It would have been a lot easier. Paulo might not have mentioned it because of the diamonds, but what about Nikki? I suppose you could argue that they didn't know about the first hatch plan, but I thought they all gathered around to talk about it.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I loved the episode. Very entertaining!

Razzle Dazzle!!!


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## Bulldog7 (Oct 6, 2002)

jschuur said:


> In the distant future, a race of intelligent polar bears round up the last of the remaining humans and drop them off on an island with false memories. They have exactly 108 days to find all the pages of the manuscript to the only known copy of the great work Bad Twin to appease Smokey, king of the polar bears. The other group of humans that played the game 20 years ago on the same island must try and stop them, or their supply of fish biscuits will be withheld.
> 
> Wait till you see season 2!


All I can say is....


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> I can't. My philosophy is a "getting there is half the fun" type of thing with Lost. What do you want? One episode that ties everything up in a neat bow? What then? Maybe you should just give it up for now until the series finale.


 :up: :up:

I agree!


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

rufus_x_s said:


> I loved this episode and I don't want to analyze everything to death (or paralysis), but they might have opened up a plot hole with this one. If Nikki and Paolo new about the other hatch, they might have mentioned it when they were planning on blowing up the door to the first hatch. It would have been a lot easier. Paulo might not have mentioned it because of the diamonds, but what about Nikki? I suppose you could argue that they didn't know about the first hatch plan, but I thought they all gathered around to talk about it.


I don't think everyone knew about the first hatch before it was opened.

Also, they may have been afraid of how it would look when they mentioned they had found a hatch and hadn't told anyone about it. At that point, no one knew that there were such signs of civilizations around the island, so it would've been a big deal.


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

This was a great episode. Seeing Lando in true cheesy form was great. 

I am also interested to see how they did this episode. It seemed like some of the stuff would have been re-shot but I imagine it would have been expensive to reconstruct the crash. Of course I'm sure they had a lot of footage from the initial crash that didn't make the cut that they were able to pull out and use...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This was not Lost at its best. They could have aired a test pattern for an hour and the plot line would have advanced the same distance. It focused on two meaningless, cardboard cutout, minor characters who've never had an impact on the plot. What really bugged me was that Nikki and Paulo did the "Lost thing" where they discover/learn/find interesting things on the island and then don't tell anybody about it. That's what really bothers me about Lost - otherwise intelligent characters who don't ask questions and who don't share important information. Real people don't act that way. Maybe some, but not a whole island full of people. To kill them off at the end was childish, in my opinion.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Fun episode.

But Unecessary.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

laststarfighter said:


> LOL, this is like every Lost thread for the last three years. No matter how AWESOME the episode was, there are always posts saying they hated it and question why they still watch. We really need to create two separate Lost threads every week.
> 
> For those who still dump on the show, here's a clue about this season for ya: *LOST IS BACK, BABY!*
> 
> ...


Amen, bro


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

JYoung said:


> ...Although I have to wonder, how hard is it to dig yourself out of several feet of sand....


Do you have _*any*_ idea how heavy a "few feet" of sand can be? And it was piled in a mound above the rest of the beach, too.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Do you have _*any*_ idea how heavy a "few feet" of sand can be? And it was piled in a mound above the rest of the beach, too.


Especially when you've been paralyzed for 8 hours, and are probably not back at full strength yet either...and have no air to breathe!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

bdlucas said:


> I was going to say like an Edgar Allan Poe story. Same idea.
> 
> Loved the episode, and how it pulled out a thread - the Niki and Paolo thread - that we didn't even treally know was a thread. But that makes me wonder a little bit - did the Lost writers really have that thread planned the whole time, or did they make it up after the fact to pull together otherwise rand appearances by Niki and Paolo?


+1 on Poe, I thought the same thing right away.

Spider being introduced early on was an obvious set up for later, but I didn't catch the "female pheromone" angle until reading it here.

-1 to the poster who spoiler-tagged the "big-ship-that-sank" movie reference.

Overall, the episode tied up some very small loose ends. Seeing Ben and Juliet in the Pearl did a tiny bit to advance the story (plotting to use Michael, Juliet calling Jack "cute", etc.) Who left the walkie-talkie -- was it there before Ben/Juliet came? Will the walkie-talkie now be featured in an upcoming episode as the Losties spy on the Others?

Overall, this episode made me think that they had some kind of a cast reunion and they built the story around it (except for the back-reference to Paolo using the washroom -- that was obviously thought through in advance).

Any more of these episodes and they'll have a tough time wrapping it up by #100.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

laststarfighter said:


> By the way, my memory of season 1 is failing me. Why was Boone looking for a pen?


(partial smeek)
That was when Jack told him he was doing CPR wrong and then sent him off to find a pen -- Boone was thinking of doing a tracheotomy a la Radar in M*A*S*H. He wasn't planning on using it, just wanted to get Boone out of the way.

I loved that.


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Was someone (Jack?) doing a tracheotomy?


That is exactly why Boone wanted the pen, yes.

Oh, I know what I forgot to mention. Is it me, or did Paolo not have nearly as thick an accent until just now? I thought he sounded American until this episode. Granted, he didn't talk much, but I don't remember the accent at all before.

+1 on folks who feel mildly frustrated about characters that appear to get written off without a point.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jschuur said:


> In the distant future, a race of intelligent polar bears round up the last of the remaining humans and drop them off on an island with false memories. They have exactly 108 days to find all the pages of the manuscript to the only known copy of the great work Bad Twin to appease Smokey, king of the polar bears. The other group of humans that played the game 20 years ago on the same island must try and stop them, or their supply of fish biscuits will be withheld.
> 
> Wait till you see season 2!


LOL!

But you may have something there with 108. At the current rate (roughly 3.75 seasons for 84 days) we'll get to 108 after 5 seasons. They'll finish off with a huge cliff hanger and then a Lost movie in the summer to finish off all the major mysteries.

It's been done. Let's hope they can do it better than that.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

rufus_x_s said:


> I loved this episode and I don't want to analyze everything to death (or paralysis), but they might have opened up a plot hole with this one. If Nikki and Paolo new about the other hatch, they might have mentioned it when they were planning on blowing up the door to the first hatch. It would have been a lot easier. Paulo might not have mentioned it because of the diamonds, but what about Nikki? I suppose you could argue that they didn't know about the first hatch plan, but I thought they all gathered around to talk about it.


Someone can go back and check the chronology, but when Paolo went back to hide the diamonds Jack was already in the Swan, so that scene, at least, was after they blew the hatch. Very possible that when they first found the Pearl the hatch was already blown.


----------



## tony touch (Jul 16, 2004)

I loved this episode. I know some people mentioned "Twilight zone", but the first thing I thought of was "Tales from the Crypt".


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Do you have _*any*_ idea how heavy a "few feet" of sand can be? And it was piled in a mound above the rest of the beach, too.


They would have also died of asphyxiation long before they regained enough strenght to even attempt to dig themselves out.
Edit: Crap, I smeeked. I apologize


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

This was a fun episode, sure, but it was also pretty flawed...

First, what I liked... 

the whole story was very tongue in cheek, which was fitting since the characters were tongue in cheek.

this was almost a clip show of sorts, but done so well that we would never have expected it. the twist to the clip show aspect was that characters that we thought were just randomly inserted were shown to be in those other scenes, conveniently either not shown in a previous camera angle or just sort of inserted with CGI. I thought that was funny and fun, and in the spirit of the wink to the audience.

The fourth wall was totally broken down in this episode, but not really in a bad way. Many of those "why don't they do this" nagging at us were addresses. Why didn't they see the hatch the first time they saw the plane? Why didn't anyone notice the plane before? What was artz doing before he blowed up?

The baywatch stripper show was pretty funny.

Lots of totally unnecessary cleavage.

Made up mysteries answered in the same episode... again, very winky at the audience in a funny way.

Now for the bad...

I don't think the tone fit the show. The whole cheesy baywatch tv show was actually the tone of this episode as well. There was just something a little off. It was fine for a stand alone episode but I hope that the same tone does not make it into subsequent episodes. It is a little too goofy.

The most nagging problem was that the entire episode was really, really, ludicrously predictable. The instant she kissed the old dude I knew that she was going to kill him for money somehow. I knew he was being poisoned just by virtue of them eating at the table. It was obvious they were on a set after about 3 seconds in that flashback. The second they showed the spider in the artz jar, it was obvious she used that on him and got bitten by it or another one. All those lingering shots on the body even before that made it obvious they were only paralyzed. I knew she had demanded a gun from sawyer when desmond said they argued. I knew sawyer had the diamonds then too. I knew he was keeping them because he was afraid of losing her, and I knew she would flip out and prove him right.

Just overall wayyyyyy too predictable.

But I'll forgive it because it was fun.

One thing... I don't think diamonds are "worthless" on the island. For one, they could have a lot of practical purposes as basic tools. More importantly, at least some of them, including sawyer, know that the others are out there and probably have use for commodities like diamonds. $8 million in diamonds is probably useful to them and worth keeping around for trading purposes.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> This was not Lost at its best. They could have aired a test pattern for an hour and the plot line would have advanced the same distance. It focused on two meaningless, cardboard cutout, minor characters who've never had an impact on the plot. What really bugged me was that Nikki and Paulo did the "Lost thing" where they discover/learn/find interesting things on the island and then don't tell anybody about it. That's what really bothers me about Lost - otherwise intelligent characters who don't ask questions and who don't share important information. Real people don't act that way. Maybe some, but not a whole island full of people. To kill them off at the end was childish, in my opinion.


You don't live in the same world I do, that's for sure.  We have a whole COUNTRY full of people who act that way.

You didn't seem to get it... these characters were just totally out for themselves. Every move they made while on the island was self-serving; therefore there was no NEED for them to tell anyone what they were doing. They wanted to keep a low profile.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm going to agree with cheesesteak but I think that it was intentional. They were the epitome of lost stupidity, and that's why the episode was so much fun. The writers were winking at us by showing those characters discovering all kinds of stuff and not telling anyone in the most extreme example of "Losties don't ever talk".


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> Vincent knew they weren't dead.


I don't even remember anyone named Vincent. Who's he?


----------



## kyms66 (Feb 19, 2003)

Vincent is/was Walt's dog.


----------



## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

Interesting episode. I saw the paralysis thing coming as soon Artz told her about the Medusa spider, but I did NOT see them being buried alive. Fitting, actually. The island reaped justice yet again.

Good point about Vincent knowing they weren't dead. I just let that picture slip by without wondering why the dog made a cameo.

I'm glad they threw in the peek at Ben and Juliet looking at Jack. Funny how she thought Jack was "cute." Perhaps that will come into play next week?


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Someone mentioned "adam and eve" from the cave in another thread- didn't they end up dead together with stones of some sort? could be a parallel as far as things getting "replayed" on the island. 

I hope that eventually they give us some further back flashbacks on the island, like from Ben or even from Dharma - the guy (Workman ) driving the van would be a good one IMO.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> ...Lots of totally unnecessary cleavage.....


....uh....nah....it would be too easy....


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

durl said:


> Good point about Walt knowing they weren't dead. I just let that picture slip by without wondering why the dog made a cameo.


Walt is Michael's son. VINCENT is Walt's dog, who pulled the sheet off of Niki and Paolo's bodies.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

durl said:


> Good point about Walt knowing they weren't dead.


Geez, it's bad enough nobody can distinguish between Michael and Walt, but Walt and Vincent?!?


----------



## headytiger (Oct 17, 2003)

Comments....

Did Sawyer father Sun's baby? (edited sorry)

Walt was kidnapped to lure Micheal to lure Jack.

Boone is gay? Shannon implied this at the airport.

....kept expecting the smoke monster to make a cameo. I miss Mr. Monster.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

headytiger said:


> Did Sawyer father Jin's baby?


 Huh?



headytiger said:


> Walt was kidnapped to lure Micheal to lure Jack.


 Why didn't they just take Michael? Did Ben say they would use Walt or Michael?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

If they took michael how would they enact the rest of the plan? I'm not sure I follow.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

headytiger said:


> Comments....
> 
> Did Sawyer father Jin's baby?
> 
> ...


Did Sawyer father Jin's baby? No. Pretty much impossible I think. And not Sun's baby either.

Walt kidnapped to lure Michael to lure Jack? - interesting thought. I will get back to you on that.

Boone gay? Why does anyone not realize that from like the pilot episode? Gay and with a sister complex?

And the smoke monster would have been a GREAT addition to the episode.

I totally did not get the 'Vincent knew they were alive' angle, but that is a good one. I did get the 'spider will get them' angle as soon as Artz mentioned it. I did like that Charlie and Hurley found Artz's stuff in Niki's hutch. Makes me wonder even more, what the other 20 or so people are doing to keep themselves busy. 
I did like this as a tension breaker and a sort of behind the scenes on the island episode.

I do wonder though what more Sun will do with the knowledge of Sawyer and Charlie's kidnapping of her? If anything. But Charlie seemed so repentative and Sawyer actually seemed sorry too, so maybe she will realize that. How long ago was it? A month, month in a half? So many things have happened since then that it will probably be forgotten.

Kudos to this episode for the fun that was there. Seeing Hurley beat Sawyer in ping pong, seeing Sawyer shirtless, seeing Billy Dee, seeing the group on the beach actually working together to solve a mystery. Good job!


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## headytiger (Oct 17, 2003)

So if nothing stays buried on the island, when will we have an episode when somebody digs up the diamonds?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Boone was bisexual if anything, being that he actually slept with shannon and seemed to enjoy it quite a bit and all.

The irony of the kidnapping of sun is that the guns were safer with sawyer anyway.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hey, did Palo or Niki ever wear a 'red' shirt? 

And what is the actually body count now for the Island? Losties I mean, I guess.

And how about Sawyer and him tossing the diamonds in the grave? Sawyer finally realizing diamonds are worthless on the Island and make people do baaaad things. Was this his epiphany? Maybe he will change his ways? The 'old' Sawyer would have kept them.

Maybe not using the nicknames has changed him somehow.


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## The Spud (Aug 28, 2002)

"I'm just a guest star, we all know what happens to guest stars."


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

Great episode. So, can anyone confirm . . . they went back to crash footage and inserted Nikki and Paolo? Or, were those scenes shot 2.5 years ago?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Absolutely LOVED this change of pace episode so much that I forgot about the Magic Box for the duration. My 1st thoughts with both useless actors seemingly dead were guilt for my bad wishes. But once we knew they were just paralyzed, as they were being buried I thought, "Geeze, I thought we were rid of them and now they're gonna raise up a hand and rejoin the cast." Bzzzzt! Wrong again!

I liked the episode setups with Arntz and the spider. The hints at paralysis by their constant cuts to the open eyed bodies, and especially when Walt, I mean Michael, sorrry when Vincent pulled the cloth off the bodies.

The purpose of a good TV show is entertainment and I for one found this episode entertaining.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Locke had an interesting line "nothing stays buried on the Island'. He was talking to Palo and then just a few days later...Palo is buried.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Didn't they bury them a bit close to the ocean? Kinda against Locke's advice. A storm could wash up the partially decomposed bodies. Yeeech! Please, no CSI style future episode!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I saw the serpent and the rainbow, so I know those two can find a way out of the grave. At the least, vincent could just start digging. Maybe the paralysis was not fully worn off and they didn't require as much oxygen. Who knows! Also I'm not convinced those two ever slept together because we never saw it.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Boone was bisexual if anything, being that he actually slept with shannon and seemed to enjoy it quite a bit and all.
> 
> The irony of the kidnapping of sun is that the guns were safer with sawyer anyway.


Shannon was just his beard. He was a screwed up guy all around...

I thought it was interesting that the Others were at the Pearl that close to the losties. Wonder if we will find out how they had a special way to travel around the island.

Wouldn't they have noticed paulo had rubbed the door off the hatch? And I guess Paulo had closed the hatch when he went down the ladder.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

A bit of an aside but here's an LA Times article on Locke.
No LOST spoilers, but DO NOT READ it if you do not want to know when a certain story thread resumes or if you do not want to know how the writers view how relevant Locke is to the overall story.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...tory?coll=la-headlines-entnews&vote28586935=1


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> If they took michael how would they enact the rest of the plan? I'm not sure I follow.


They could have took Michael when they took Walt (on the boat).

Here's a question I hope gets answered. Did Ben get captured on purpose?


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

This wasn't so bad but it was like a Lost version of a clip show.


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

mwhip said:


> This wasn't so bad but it was like a Lost version of a clip show.


There were only a handful of scenes we had seen before.

It was a lot of new action and a lot of new information.

Did you consider "The Other 48 Days" from last season the "Lost version of a clip show" as well?


----------



## tirofiban (Feb 15, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> The most nagging problem was that the entire episode was really, really, ludicrously predictable. The instant she kissed the old dude I knew that she was going to kill him for money somehow. I knew he was being poisoned just by virtue of them eating at the table. It was obvious they were on a set after about 3 seconds in that flashback. The second they showed the spider in the artz jar, it was obvious she used that on him and got bitten by it or another one. All those lingering shots on the body even before that made it obvious they were only paralyzed. I knew she had demanded a gun from sawyer when desmond said they argued. I knew sawyer had the diamonds then too. I knew he was keeping them because he was afraid of losing her, and I knew she would flip out and prove him right.
> 
> Just overall wayyyyyy too predictable.


I didn't see most of that coming.
TAsunder, are you also known as Desmond?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

tony touch said:


> I loved this episode. I know some people mentioned "Twilight zone", but the first thing I thought of was "Tales from the Crypt".


The first thing I thought of was Outter Limits. I can't recall the TZ episode that's being referred to. Maybe someone can refresh my memory. Also, last summer I think this was part of the Stephen King's Nightmares and Dreamscapes. Only instead of spiders...



Spoiler



it was a snake bite. and the guy was going to be awake for his own autopsy. but they ended up figuring it out in that one, which is why i was so sure that nikki and paulo wouldn't be buried alive.



Seeing Boone actually going around asking people for a pen was great. I miss Boone.

My husband called the paralysis before they even introduced Artz and his spiders (where did he get all those jars to keep those bugs?) He said, "I bet they're not dead and that's why they keep showing them with their eyes wide open." It never even occured to me. And even though he kept saying it all the way through the episode, when Nikki bust out the spider it finally dawned on me..."Oh. I bet she said PARALYZED" I don't know. Paulo lies just seemed to really fit up until then.

I liked the episode and didn't even realize there wasn't much story advancement until I started reading the thread. I was really freaked out at the end though. I would've been just fine with the knowledge that they buried them alive...I didn't have to see Nikki open her eye just in time to see a shovel full of dirt fall on her. That's gonna give me nightmare for a while. I get weird phobias about things like that.


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> This was not Lost at its best. They could have aired a test pattern for an hour and the plot line would have advanced the same distance. It focused on two meaningless, cardboard cutout, minor characters who've never had an impact on the plot. What really bugged me was that Nikki and Paulo did the "Lost thing" where they discover/learn/find interesting things on the island and then don't tell anybody about it. That's what really bothers me about Lost - otherwise intelligent characters who don't ask questions and who don't share important information. Real people don't act that way. Maybe some, but not a whole island full of people. To kill them off at the end was childish, in my opinion.


Not true...Sawyer and the gang now have the walkie-talkie.


----------



## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Very entertaining episode. I loved how it winked at the audience. It's nice to have a change of pace episode every now and then.

There was some dialog between Ben and Juliet as they entered the Pearl (while Paulo was there) that I thought was interesting and informative.

Ben: "Who left this open?"
Juliet: "Tom was here a few days ago."
Ben: "Tell him to cover it with the plane."

I was wondering how Paulo got into the Pearl to stash his diamonds (since it was on day 49 and the plane had already fallen and Boone had already died) but this implies that the plane didn't actually fall on the Pearl but Tom moved it to hide it from the Losties. This explains why Locke and Eko had to move the plane in order to find the Pearl.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

headytiger said:


> Comments....
> 
> ....kept expecting the smoke monster to make a cameo. I miss Mr. Monster.


When Nikki threw the spider on Paulo, I swear I heard that weird clicky-type noise that smoke monster makes. I assumed that the spider that bit Nikki just materialized from the smoke monster some how. But then I remembered that Artz was talking about the pharamones (sp?) attracting every male of the species on the island. So I don't know. But I still think I heard the smoke monster.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Especially given Locke's words about things not staying buried on the island, I'm sure someone is going to dig up those diamonds. Sawyer seems the most likely - or at least the most obvious, which perhaps makes it less likely - but the diamonds are only worthless if they're never going to get off the island. Unless they've completely given up on that possibility, someone is going to dig them up and hide them until that day. Is it too far-fetched to speculate that the bodies might not be in the same positions they were in when they were buried? I don't doubt that they'd suffocate before they'd regain enough strength to dig themselves out, but might they have enough time to at least struggle a bit? I'm sure the sand is heavy, but wouldn't it be loose enough to maybe move an arm or something?


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

rufus_x_s said:


> What's your hurry? Are you bitter because you didn't get to see the forensics hatch? Myself, I'm enjoying the ride. This was one of my all-time favorite episodes. So much fun. We're apparently in the hands of the masters here.


I'm just still waiting for the overall story to progress, as producers have promised many times after the amazing amount of patience we have all displayed with so much of this lethargic third season.

It was enjoyable to watch in the sense that it kept me amused for an hour. I just don't quite get the overall point of throwing two new characters into the mix, generally ignoring them for the rest of the season, and then killing them off before we even knew them. It seemed way too much like a "gee whiz, remember when that happened?" episode to foster some sort of warm fuzzy feeling in people who have watched from the beginning. (And it seems to have worked quite well in that way for some people.)



jurysch said:


> Will someone please just agree with me that we're still watching week after week because we've been in on it from the start and we just want some answers already?


Yes.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

It was an ok episode...it was more like watching an episode of Twilight Zone than anything else...didn't really move the story forward much IMO...


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> A bit of an aside but here's an LA Times article on Locke.
> No LOST spoilers, but DO NOT READ it if you do not want to know when a certain story thread resumes or if you do not want to know how the writers view how relevant Locke is to the overall story.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...tory?coll=la-headlines-entnews&vote28586935=1


I only have one thing to say about the 2nd to last paragraph in the article



Spoiler



I don't look forward to the message threads the next 4 weeks. Not in the least bit.



Greg


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

What was the deal with Expose? Did I miss something, or did all the characters have American accents? Was it an American show that just happened to be shot in Australia? I'd have to guess so, since Hurley had seen it. Presumably it was just obscure enough (V.I.P. comes to mind) that he was the only one who'd heard of it.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

gchance said:


> I only have one thing to say about the 2nd to last paragraph in the article
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Non-spoiler bit:

O'Quinn, who had worked with co-creator J.J. Abrams on "Alias," fit the role, Cuse said, because like Locke, he "marches to the tune of his own drummer." The actor often walks two hours barefoot on the beach from his home on the North Shore of Oahu, Hawaii, to the set.


:up: :up: :up: :up:


----------



## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

I was hoping to see Rose as well in their flashback....but no dice.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> What was the deal with Expose? Did I miss something, or did all the characters have American accents? Was it an American show that just happened to be shot in Australia? I'd have to guess so, since Hurley had seen it. Presumably it was just obscure enough (V.I.P. comes to mind) that he was the only one who'd heard of it.


Maybe it was an episode that was set in Sydney (obviously a reference to "Alias" ), or they were filming at http://www.foxstudiosaustralia.com/: "Fox Studios is located 10mins from downtown Sydney, the international airport and Sydney's famous Bondi Beach."

It's a very popular studio to shoot movies in, although I don't know if any TV shows are filmed there.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

mightyb said:


> I was hoping to see Rose as well in their flashback....but no dice.


Yes, burying her and her husband woulda been a 4-fer.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> When Nikki threw the spider on Paulo, I swear I heard that weird clicky-type noise that smoke monster makes. I assumed that the spider that bit Nikki just materialized from the smoke monster some how. But then I remembered that Artz was talking about the pharamones (sp?) attracting every male of the species on the island. So I don't know. But I still think I heard the smoke monster.


The smoke monster can definitely be heard in that scene.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

People keep mentioning the Twilight Zone, but it was actually an old Alfred Hitchcock Presents with Joseph Cotten. He's in a car accident and is completely paralyzed, including his eyes. We hear his thoughts as he's discovered and led to the autopsy table.



Spoiler



they see tears coming out of his eyes and realize that he's alive



I thought it was a great episode and they did a really good job integrating old footage with new. Boone and Shannon looked different in the airplane footage, but the scene on the beach right after the plane crash was really well done.


----------



## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

When analyzing the episode and assuming it was a stand alone, don't forget the Locke line to Paolo about things buried on the beach. We may not have seen the last of them.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Non-spoiler bit:
> 
> O'Quinn, who had worked with co-creator J.J. Abrams on "Alias," fit the role, Cuse said, because like Locke, he "marches to the tune of his own drummer." The actor often walks two hours barefoot on the beach from his home on the North Shore of Oahu, Hawaii, to the set.
> 
> :up: :up: :up: :up:


If THAT was my walk to work, I'd do that too.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

MickeS said:


> If THAT was my walk to work, I'd do that too.


Less chance of getting a traffic violation...


----------



## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> All those lingering shots on the body even before that made it obvious they were only paralyzed.


No one bothered to close their eyes for a long time.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Maybe it was an episode that was set in Sydney (obviously a reference to "Alias" ), or they were filming at http://www.foxstudiosaustralia.com/: "Fox Studios is located 10mins from downtown Sydney, the international airport and Sydney's famous Bondi Beach."
> 
> It's a very popular studio to shoot movies in, although I don't know if any TV shows are filmed there.


I guess if it's common for American shows to be shot there, then it's really no big deal. I didn't think that was common, but my knowledge certainly isn't anything to go on. It didn't appear to be set there, but maybe it's just cheaper for whatever reasons.

Although thinking more about it, I'm surprised that no one had recognized Nikki as an actress. It obviously wasn't a well-known show, but if she was a guest star, I'd think that she was at least somewhat well-known. Then again, it's easy not to notice even very famous people when you see them out of context, and she was probably only mildly famous. And even Hurley probably wouldn't have recognized her from the show because her episodes wouldn't have aired yet.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

lordargent said:


> No one bothered to close their eyes for a long time.


I was thinking that too. I guess they were conscious throughout the whole thing?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> People keep mentioning the Twilight Zone, but it was actually an old Alfred Hitchcock Presents with Joseph Cotten. He's in a car accident and is completely paralyzed, including his eyes. We hear his thoughts as he's discovered and led to the autopsy table.


Thank you. I thought I had gone crazy because everyone was calling it a Twilight Zone thing. And I've seen every episode of TZ. Now that you mention the car accident I remember it though. I think it starts with him laying on the ground or something and you just hear his thoughts all the way through the show.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Pissed me off that Sawyer tossed the diamonds into the grave.


As soon as there's a chance of getting rescued, there will be some frantic digging! 

Since when being paralyzed makes your breathing and heart stop? (no pulse?) 

I liked that the episode told the whole story from the...uhm... end to the beginning...



TAsunder said:


> Lots of totally unnecessary cleavage.


No such thing.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Thank you. I thought I had gone crazy because everyone was calling it a Twilight Zone thing. And I've seen every episode of TZ. Now that you mention the car accident I remember it though. I think it starts with him laying on the ground or something and you just hear his thoughts all the way through the show.


In the beginning we see him as someone who can't sit still and is a go-getter. From the accident on we hear his thoughts as he tries to communicate with the people around him.


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I guess if it's common for American shows to be shot there, then it's really no big deal. I didn't think that was common, but my knowledge certainly isn't anything to go on. It didn't appear to be set there, but maybe it's just cheaper for whatever reasons.
> 
> Although thinking more about it, I'm surprised that no one had recognized Nikki as an actress. It obviously wasn't a well-known show, but if she was a guest star, I'd think that she was at least somewhat well-known. Then again, it's easy not to notice even very famous people when you see them out of context, and she was probably only mildly famous. And even Hurley probably wouldn't have recognized her from the show because her episodes wouldn't have aired yet.


Weren't Hercules and Xena both filmed in Australia? Expose seems to fit that syndicated show mold.


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> When Nikki threw the spider on Paulo, I swear I heard that weird clicky-type noise that smoke monster makes. I assumed that the spider that bit Nikki just materialized from the smoke monster some how. But then I remembered that Artz was talking about the pharamones (sp?) attracting every male of the species on the island. So I don't know. But I still think I heard the smoke monster.


Ditto. Either that, or the same sound effects they use for the monster they use for spiders en-masse.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> Vincent knew they weren't dead.





stevieleej said:


> Vincent to the rescue...


He knew they weren't dead when he pulled the cover off and he knows they aren't dead now. Nothing prevents him from digging them out- at least one of them could conceivably survive if he got right at it. We haven't seen any time pass after all, and the island has granted one or two folks some pretty amazing recuperative powers.

I can't possibly imagine that everyone on that island is so willing to let the diamonds just go like that- the grave site is going to be ravaged one way or another.

$20 says Sawyers kept a few for himself, too.


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

scottykempf said:


> Good episode. Very Twilight Zone *type* ending.
> 
> "Who the hell's Niki?"


See bold text


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Since when being paralyzed makes your breathing and heart stop? (no pulse?)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugu


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

The Twilight Zone primarily focused on supernatural storylines. Stories that couldn't be explained by logic or science. The paralyisis had a scientific explaination (as was explained by a high school science teacher  )


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugu


Right, the functions slow down, but don't stop, obviously. You don't pronounce a person dead just because their heartbeat is slow.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

How the hell did Artz know that there were so many new species on the island? You would have to be an animal expert to know every single variant of the different species. And he knew trajectories and hence physics too. Seems like a guy who would be featured a lot more in a survival type scenario


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Maybe it doesn't stop, but it's slowed enough for people to have been allegedly declared dead and awakened days later.


----------



## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> The smoke monster can definitely be heard in that scene.


I watched with the closed captioning on, and there was a caption for a "clanking sound" at the time Nikki was looking around as if she heard something (but before the spider bit her).


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Nikki was trying to explain that it slowed the heart and breathing so much that even a doctor would have a hard time determining whether you're dead or alive. But I would guess if you had a heart monitor or something on that a machine would surely pick up a slight pulse or something.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Honora said:


> I watched with the closed captioning on, and there was a caption for a "clanking sound" at the time Nikki was looking around as if she heard something (but before the spider bit her).


Do the captions also describe the noise the smoke monster make as "clanking sound?" I was almost certain that the smoke monster was going to have something to do with that scene.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> How the hell did Artz know that there were so many new species on the island? You would have to be an animal expert to know every single variant of the different species. And he knew trajectories and hence physics too. Seems like a guy who would be featured a lot more in a survival type scenario


Yes, but he 'blew' it.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Right, the functions slow down, but don't stop, obviously. You don't pronounce a person dead just because their heartbeat is slow.


Well, their only doctor wasn't there.


----------



## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

brermike said:


> I was wondering how Paulo got into the Pearl to stash his diamonds (since it was on day 49 and the plane had already fallen and Boone had already died) but this implies that the plane didn't actually fall on the Pearl but Tom moved it to hide it from the Losties. This explains why Locke and Eko had to move the plane in order to find the Pearl.


I can't believe that no one has proposed that we were seeing a Desmond-altered universe last night. At the airport Shannon said something about being kicked ouf first class. Weren't she and Boone "originally" in first class? I think Niki and Paulo bumped Boone and Shanonn to coach and Bernard and Rose off the flight. I was expecting to find out that so much had changed that Boone and Shannon were still alive....could still be true, but late to show. Your timeline gives support to this idea.

Someone should go back and analyze the timelines to find out additional concrete evidence of what had changed.

Boone and Shannon were in Row 9 according to the "original" Oceanic 815 seating chart. This appears to be business class. I'll have to rewatch that scene with her chewing Boone out to see if they definitely were bumped to coach. Would Shannon really throw such a hissy fit about Business class ? (Possibly!)

We did NOT see Rose or Bernard in last night's show. We did not see confirmation of dead Boone or Shannon.

Several people pointed out that there was no "Previously....on Lost" at the beginning of the show. This is a huge clue! I think there what we saw "previously" has been altered thanks to Desmond going back in time and subtly altering the flow of history which is now trying to re-adjust. Nikki and Paulo were suddenly there on the island because Rose and Bernard were not. I really don't think the writers/prodcuers were so lazy that they'd bring on these characters without more payoff than last night's allegedly stand-alone episode.

How about Locke's line about nothing stays buried on this island? (paraphrase?) Suggests that Nikki and Paulo will be back.

Would you all be happy or terribly disappointed if Boone and Shannon were now alive?


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> Well, their only doctor wasn't there.


Right... he was off playing football and practicing his piano.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I thought this was a great episode. I watch this show for the characters first and foremost. The mystery comes second. I have no idea why people had such an issue with these characters in the first place. There are obviously 20 or so survivors who have never uttered a word on screen, but do people really expect them to pick an extra as one of those characters? It's obvious they'd have to ease new actors in.

I loved how they brought back almost all of the dead characters and had them play a part in this episode. I think Ethan has had more work this season than the first.

People are complaining this a "standalone" episode? How does an episode that takes place over the entire run of the show count as standalone?

I thought it was great and look forward to any more such clever episodes, just like I loved "The Other 48 Days."

The "put put" sound the smoke monster makes when it's just a little wisp was clearly played before the spider's showed up.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

bpurcell said:


> Finally was able to watch the show tonight. I just wanted to add my two cents worth.
> 
> I REALLY enjoyed this episode. As long as they don't happen too often, I think it's great to have standalone episodes in the middle of these types of shows (I always loved the X-Files standalones).
> 
> ...


So is Billy Dee Williams the first famous guest star? Hmm ... some may consider that "stunt" casting ...


----------



## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

Quite a few people believe that Locke doesn't want off the island. That's a valid opinion but why does he have to prevent everyone else from being rescued? Couldn't he stay behind? Like some others on here, I'm guessing that Locke didn't actually blow up the sub and he's going to use that for control later on.

So if Locke wants to keep everyone on the island, that means him and Ben are the only two that seem to want that. (Ben has said that people need to believe that they can leave at any time. That's how he maintains control.) Ben seemed to want to destroy the original hatch by telling Locke that it was pointless to enter the numbers. But did Ben want something else to happen and not count on Desmond turning the key, thus destroying the hatch and closing down communication? (Now my head is hurting...)

I've wondered for some time if Locke was actually born on the island and that's why he is so connected to it. Crazy theory, I know.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

brermike said:


> Very entertaining episode. I loved how it winked at the audience. It's nice to have a change of pace episode every now and then.
> 
> There was some dialog between Ben and Juliet as they entered the Pearl (while Paulo was there) that I thought was interesting and informative.
> 
> ...


Here's where I was confused. When Eko found the plane it was upside down at the top of a cliff, and Boone later died when the plane fell.

In this episode when Ben tells Juliet that Tom should cover the hatch with the plane, the plane is at the top of a cliff, but appears to be right side up. So is this AFTER Boone died and there were TWO cliffs? Top cliff = plane upside down, Boone falls in plane from that cliff onto lower cliff, with plane right-side up? And then the plane is moved down on top of the Pearl hatch by the Others?


----------



## Steavis (Dec 27, 2001)

It's Arzt, people. A-R-Z-T. German for "Medical doctor."

That is all.


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> Nikki was trying to explain that it slowed the heart and breathing so much that even a doctor would have a hard time determining whether you're dead or alive. But I would guess if you had a heart monitor or something on that a machine would surely pick up a slight pulse or something.


PEA - Pulseless Electrical Activity. If you look on a heart monitor and it shows something like a normal sinus rhythm or even tachycardia, and you feel for a pulse in the neck and there is none, it's called PEA.

And you shock the hell out of PEA because it's not a good sign.

But PEA isn't _that_ uncommon, and it also isn't that unfeasible that a neurotoxin could cause it.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> People are complaining this a "standalone" episode? How does an episode that takes place over the entire run of the show count as standalone?


Because it was all shown in a single episode. Start, finish. The fact it covers weeks of time doesn't change the fact the entire episode/story arc was opened & closed in a single showing. I can't recall any other Lost episode that does this. Is it a crime? No. Just different. But it seems out of place for this series. It was more like "Law & Order:SUV", where every episode can be watched on its own. Not like LOST, where every week only shows us a little, little, little bit of the puzzle.

+3 on the clanking smoke monster sound. I heard it too.

Also, aren't there *two* planes discovered on the island? One Boone died in, the other covering the Pearl Hatch?


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Same plane.


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

mojomom said:


> We did NOT see Rose or Bernard in last night's show. We did not see confirmation of dead Boone or Shannon.


I could have sworn I saw Rose during the initial crash sequence in last night's episode...


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

TV Guide listed Billy Dee Williams as Mr. LaShade but on the show he was actually playing Mr. Billy Dee Williams.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> What was the deal with Expose? Did I miss something, or did all the characters have American accents? Was it an American show that just happened to be shot in Australia? I'd have to guess so, since Hurley had seen it. Presumably it was just obscure enough (V.I.P. comes to mind) that he was the only one who'd heard of it.





MitchO said:


> Weren't Hercules and Xena both filmed in Australia? Expose seems to fit that syndicated show mold.


Hercules and Xena were filmed in New Zealand.

But there have been several syndicated shows that were filmed in Australia. 
The recent Lost World TV series comes to mind.
(And most of Superman Returns was shot in Australia.)

But this also may have been a bit of a dig at Co-Producer Ra'uf Glasgow, who worked on the Flipper revival show years back.


----------



## skywalkr2 (Jun 16, 2003)

modnar said:


> Same here. I did *not* expect them to be buried alive!


I think it sets up the zombie season perfectly.


----------



## TRD_Dan (Oct 13, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Well, they have said from the beginning that there are 40+ survivors, and we've dealt with, what, less than half of that. Why would anyone be surprised or pissed off if they decide to shift some of the story to some of those that haven't been shown before?


There was also supposed to be one hundred Smurfs, but can you name more that ~10?

I didn't Smurf so!


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Steavis said:


> It's Arzt, people. A-R-Z-T. German for "Medical doctor."
> 
> That is all.


It's not Arnzt?


----------



## skywalkr2 (Jun 16, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> It's not Arnzt?


IMDB says it is: Leslie Arzt


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

TRD_Dan said:


> There was also supposed to be one hundred Smurfs, but can you name more that ~10?
> 
> I didn't Smurf so!


Smurf off!


----------



## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> A bit of an aside but here's an LA Times article on Locke.
> No LOST spoilers, but DO NOT READ it if you do not want to know when a certain story thread resumes or if you do not want to know how the writers view how relevant Locke is to the overall story.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...tory?coll=la-headlines-entnews&vote28586935=1


OMG, Locke is the Cobra!


----------



## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

According to Lostpedia, Boone died on Day 40 on the Island.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Boone

In Expose, we see the scene in the Pearl hatch on Day 49, when Ben says that Tom should cover the hatch with the plane. Shouldn't the plane have already fallen on top of hte Pearl hatch by then? Am I missing something--in Expose we never saw that the plane had fallen, did we?

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Expose

If the plane didn't fall, Boone didn't die.

I am frustrated that no one is taking this possibility seriously. I feel like the writers gave us a "game-changing" episode but we're too dumb to understand it!


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

could it be possible that maybe the plane didn't land directly over the hatch door and that tom simply pushed it there after this encounter?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Hercules and Xena were filmed in New Zealand.
> 
> But there have been several syndicated shows that were filmed in Australia.
> The recent Lost World TV series comes to mind.
> ...


I haven't seen all of those shows, but aren't they mostly outdoors? Expose was being shot on a regular studio set. And while it doesn't necessarily confirm anything in terms of Expose viewers since we only saw a minute or so, as Lost viewers we were clearly supposed to be surprised when it was revealed that they were in Australia.

My point is that the scenery in shows like Xena and Hercules (and Lost itself for that matter) that aren't set in real-life locations would make you wonder where they were shot and therefore a lot of people know (within a few hundred miles anyway). From what we saw of Expose, you'd just assume it was on a Hollywood set if you thought about it at all. So perhaps a lot of shows are done there and most people just don't realize it.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

mojomom said:


> According to Lostpedia, Boone died on Day 40 on the Island.
> 
> http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Boone
> 
> ...


The plane fell but did not cover the hatch. On day 49, Ben came up with the idea of Tom MOVING the plane to cover the hatch.

In other words...the plane didn't fall on the hatch. It fell, then Tom and the others moved it onto the hatch.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I was not surprised when they said Expose was shot in Australia. I took the same way I learn that movies and tv shows are shot in Canada and as mentioned Xena in New Zealand. 

I like the point brought up that Sawyer would have known who Niki was. However, we haven't seen him show any interest in any other females other than Kate. He doesn't hanging off his arms.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> Thank you. I thought I had gone crazy because everyone was calling it a Twilight Zone thing. And I've seen every episode of TZ. Now that you mention the car accident I remember it though. I think it starts with him laying on the ground or something and you just hear his thoughts all the way through the show.


There was an episode of Tales from the Crypt  in which a doctor had a drug that could paralyze someone for days but their mind was still in tact. He used the drug on his brother. The brother thought that he was murdered and the episode dealt from his point of view. They hung him in a meat locker and such. Just as the doctor was about to perform the embalming, he regained movement, woke up, and found that it was a surprise birthday party. It was all a joke. Then he had a REAL heart attack and died, but found out that when you die, your brain is still active and you can still feel. Final scene was the embalmer taking a saw to his head.


----------



## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

RegBarc said:


> PEA - Pulseless Electrical Activity. If you look on a heart monitor and it shows something like a normal sinus rhythm or even tachycardia, and you feel for a pulse in the neck and there is none, it's called PEA.
> 
> And you shock the hell out of PEA because it's not a good sign.
> 
> But PEA isn't _that_ uncommon, and it also isn't that unfeasible that a neurotoxin could cause it.


I would think it would be more of a severe bradycardia, and unless you feel for a pulse for a long time, you won't notice it. PEA, the heart's not beating, and no blood is flowing anywhere. Brain tissue is going to die and you won't wake up. Bradycardia, it will at least be getting a bit of blood flow.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

JYoung said:


> ...But there have been several syndicated shows that were filmed in Australia....


Farscape!


----------



## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

> So, can anyone confirm . . . they went back to crash footage and inserted Nikki and Paolo? Or, were those scenes shot 2.5 years ago?


IMHO it looked pretty obvious at times that they were inserted. They did a pretty good job in some places, but there were others that it was blatant. I'm sure if someone went and looked at the scenes from the pilot that they wouldn't be there.

Now, my comment in the spoiler below shouldn't be read by anyone paranoid about future episodes.



Spoiler



While obviously it's never 100% accurate, Nikki is listed in the credits for the next episode at IMDB. Tends to make me think that she's surviving.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gschrock said:


> ...Now, my comment in the spoiler below shouldn't be read by anyone paranoid about future episodes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why?...


Spoiler



she might just be appearing in a flashback.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Here's where I was confused. When Eko found the plane it was upside down at the top of a cliff, and Boone later died when the plane fell.
> 
> In this episode when Ben tells Juliet that Tom should cover the hatch with the plane, the plane is at the top of a cliff, but appears to be right side up. So is this AFTER Boone died and there were TWO cliffs? Top cliff = plane upside down, Boone falls in plane from that cliff onto lower cliff, with plane right-side up? And then the plane is moved down on top of the Pearl hatch by the Others?


Boone and Locke found the plane first. At least that's what we thought before this episode. Now we know that Nikki and Paolo found it and the Pearl hatch but didn't do anything with them, and didn't tell anyone about them.

Later, Locke and Boone found the plane, the plane fell out of the tree, and this caused Boone's death.

Later still, Locke and Eko find the plane where it had apparently fallen from the tree and was covering the entrance to the Pearl hatch.

In this episode, we realize that somewhere between Boone dying and Eko finding the plane is when Paolo went to the hatch and hid the diamonds. He left the hatch open and this is why Ben told Juliet to have Tom move the plane to cover the hatch.

OK, having said that, did anyone think the Pearl hatch looked odd? The first two times we've seen it, it appears to just be a small room with a bunch of monitors and computer equipment. However, this time we see Ben and Juliet come around a corner, almost as if coming from some connecting tunnel rather than from the ladder. I just thought that was odd.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I like the point brought up that Sawyer would have known who Niki was. However, we haven't seen him show any interest in any other females other than Kate. He doesn't hanging off his arms.


You forgot his 'activity' with the hated Anna-Lucia


----------



## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

I loved this homage from the writers to the fans of this show. They had to top the way they got rid of the previous MOST-hated character (Ana Lucia) by burying alive the new MOST-hated characters (Poochie and Mrs. Poochie). Maybe not as violent and painful as some of us wanted, but very nice. And all of the characters told each other stuff. That never happens on this show.

They responded to the charge that they don't answer questions, by answering a few for those who constantly whine that they must have answers and they wrapped everything up in a nice tidy package for those who must have their stories told in 42-minute start-to-finish CSI banality. Nice tip of the hat guys.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Me, I like banal CSI Las Vegas, but I LOVE LOST for its characters, flashback stories and ongoing mystery


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

UBUBUB said:


> Maybe not as violent and painful as some of us wanted, but very nice.


If that wasn't a painful enough way to die for you, I'd hate to get on your bad side.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Why all the hate for those two? Did some of you take their characters seriously and not see them as the writers winking at us all the time? Because it was pretty obvious to me that they were never meant to be taken too seriously.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

stevieleej said:


> I know the writers are expecting us to take Sawyer's "who are you" line (to Nikki) as an inside joke, but it's totally wrong for his character. There is no way that Sawyer wouldn't have known who Nikki was. She was good looking. He would have been all over her or at least trying to be near her. He probably would have already thought up at least 20 nicknames to use.


Of course he would have, but since she hadn't said word one to anyone other than Paulo in like 40 days, it was his first reaction to her speaking. It's like Zaphod Beeblebrox telling Ford Prefect his monkey's evolved to the point of speech.



UBUBUB said:


> I loved this homage from the writers to the fans of this show. They had to top the way they got rid of the previous MOST-hated character (Ana Lucia) by burying alive the new MOST-hated characters (Poochie and Mrs. Poochie).


Call me slow, but... AHA!!! I finally get it! I've been trying to figure who the heck Mr. & Mrs. Poochie were in all these threads. I must have missed the attributation towards Nikki & Paulo. Duh. 

Greg


----------



## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> Do the captions also describe the noise the smoke monster make as "clanking sound?" I was almost certain that the smoke monster was going to have something to do with that scene.


Yes, it says "clanking sound" whenever Old Smokey shows up.


----------



## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

I had a different take on this episode, which is probably wrong But I thought by going back to the beginning and showing it through other character's eyes they were at least implying that we don't know as much as we think we do.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Someone posted a "spoiler" that Nikki is listed in next week's credits. That is not a spoiler. When Boone and Shannon died, they remained in the credits for the remainder of their respective seasons.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

skywalkr2 said:


> IMDB says it is: Leslie Arzt


 There was a big to-do between Arzt and Hurley about the pronunciation of his name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_Lost#Dr._Leslie_Arzt


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

gchance said:


> Of course he would have, but since she hadn't said word one to anyone other than Paulo in like 40 days, it was his first reaction to her speaking. It's like Zaphod Beeblebrox telling Ford Prefect his monkey's evolved to the point of speech.
> 
> Call me slow, but... AHA!!! I finally get it! I've been trying to figure who the heck Mr. & Mrs. Poochie were in all these threads. I must have missed the attributation towards Nikki & Paulo. Duh.
> 
> Greg


It's Nina and Pablo.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gchance said:


> ...Call me slow, but... AHA!!! I finally get it! I've been trying to figure who the heck Mr. & Mrs. Poochie were in all these threads. I must have missed the attributation towards Nikki & Paulo. Duh.
> 
> Greg


Then call me slow AND I must really be dumb; why are they called "Poochie"?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> People keep mentioning the Twilight Zone, but it was actually an old Alfred Hitchcock Presents with Joseph Cotten. He's in a car accident and is completely paralyzed, including his eyes. We hear his thoughts as he's discovered and led to the autopsy table.


They all stole it from Edgar Allen Poe.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I haven't seen all of those shows, but aren't they mostly outdoors? Expose was being shot on a regular studio set. And while it doesn't necessarily confirm anything in terms of Expose viewers since we only saw a minute or so, as Lost viewers we were clearly supposed to be surprised when it was revealed that they were in Australia.
> 
> My point is that the scenery in shows like Xena and Hercules (and Lost itself for that matter) that aren't set in real-life locations would make you wonder where they were shot and therefore a lot of people know (within a few hundred miles anyway). From what we saw of Expose, you'd just assume it was on a Hollywood set if you thought about it at all. So perhaps a lot of shows are done there and most people just don't realize it.


Most American Network productions are still shot in Hollywood.
Some are shot in New York and others which have smaller budgets are shot in Vancouver.

But as stated, some productions are shot in Australia and there is a whole market in Australia for Australian programming and films which are shot in, surprise, Australia. Sydney has a number of production studios.
(Same with Canada and Toronto and Vancouver. Due South was shot in Toronto as was Forever Knight.)

For all we know, Expose was a Australian product for the Australian market and Hurley was downloading the episodes off of the Internet.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> TV Guide listed Billy Dee Williams as Mr. LaShade but on the show he was actually playing Mr. Billy Dee Williams.


No - on the show Billy Dee Williams was playing Mr. Billy Dee Williams playing Mr. LaShade, a "Bosley"-type role.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I thought there were rumors from the producers that this was supposed to be some sort of pivotal episode and that those two were somehow crucial to the mystery, but I didn't see anything in the episode to substantiate that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Then call me slow AND I must really be dumb; why are they called "Poochie"?


It's a reference to the Poochie character from The Simpsons. There was an episode where the producers of Itchy and Scratchy felt the show was getting stale so they decided to introduce a "new, cool character" to freshen it up. Poochie (voiced by Homer) was this character. He was well received for a couple of episodes, then everyone hated him and eventually he was killed off.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> People keep mentioning the Twilight Zone, but it was actually an old Alfred Hitchcock Presents with Joseph Cotten.. .


Ahem, post #68...


balboa dave said:


> These were NOT new characters, just minor ones, so I don't understand what was confusing. This episode may not have advanced the main plot very much, but it certainly filled in a few details, and was a fun departure with a great Hitchcock-worthy twist. I would have no problem if there were a few more like it, and I am just as interested in the big mystery as anyone. I hope that every survivor of Oceanic Flight 815 gets a full episode.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Mike Farrington said:


> I like how they explained his bathroom visit in the Pearl. I wonder, did they re-stage a lot of the crash, or just do some heavy-duty digital insertion? Maybe a mid?


This is the stuff that makes me think the writers actually HAVE had a plan. Or maybe that's exactly what they WANT me to think...

Oh man, I don't know.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I'm only on page 4, but even if you're paralyzed, don't you still have a pulse? Didn't Hurley check that? Don't you still breathe?

Also, their skin was starting to turn a nasty shade of gray - that wouldn't happen either, I would think..


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## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> It's a reference to the Poochie character from The Simpsons. There was an episode where the producers of Itchy and Scratchy felt the show was getting stale so they decided to introduce a "new, cool character" to freshen it up. Poochie (voiced by Homer) was this character. He was well received for a couple of episodes, then everyone hated him and eventually he was killed off.


Oh. I never saw that simpsons ep. I thought it was a reference to the poochie dog/doll/toy that we had back in the 80's. It had this pink hair that girls could comb. I thought Nikki's hair was vaguely reminiscent of it and that that's what everyone was referring to (I used to call Tina Turner poochie for that reason so it wasn't much of a leap for me).

And since I'm posting anyways I'll say what I didn't like about this episode, but spoilerized since it is a result of some things said in podcast:



Spoiler



The produces told us to be patient with the Nikki and Paolo thing because they'd be important to the story later on. I was expecting something much bigger for them (and I'm still not counting out that possibility) and this episode seemed to me like it and them could have been left out entirely and we wouldn't be missing anything.


I think if I hadn't been expecting something bigger then I would have loved this episode because on its own it indeed was really good. And Kylie Sanchez is hot! I replayed the opening minute several times


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> It's a reference to the Poochie character from The Simpsons. There was an episode where the producers of Itchy and Scratchy felt the show was getting stale so they decided to introduce a "new, cool character" to freshen it up. Poochie (voiced by Homer) was this character. He was well received for a couple of episodes, then everyone hated him and eventually he was killed off.


Ah, thank you. Don't watch Simpsons, so that probably explains my ignorance (or at least my ignorance on that topic!).


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

goMO said:


> I'm only on page 4, but even if you're paralyzed, don't you still have a pulse? Didn't Hurley check that? Don't you still breathe?
> 
> Also, their skin was starting to turn a nasty shade of gray - that wouldn't happen either, I would think..


There was some dialog that covered that... Nikki saying something like "It looks like you're dead. even an doctor would have a hard time telling."


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gschrock said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> While obviously it's never 100% accurate, Nikki is listed in the credits for the next episode at IMDB. Tends to make me think that she's surviving.


Remember Locke saying to Paolo that "things don't tend to stay buried on this island"?
Could be foreshadowing ...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Spoiler



That Nikki is listed in the credits for upcoming episodes doesn't mean much regarding whether she's dead or not, since "Lost" always does flashbacks. This episode, for example, featured 3 dead characters


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Here's where I was confused. When Eko found the plane it was upside down at the top of a cliff, and Boone later died when the plane fell.
> 
> In this episode when Ben tells Juliet that Tom should cover the hatch with the plane, the plane is at the top of a cliff, but appears to be right side up. So is this AFTER Boone died and there were TWO cliffs? Top cliff = plane upside down, Boone falls in plane from that cliff onto lower cliff, with plane right-side up? And then the plane is moved down on top of the Pearl hatch by the Others?


No, you have the sequences wrong.

1. Boone and Locke came upon the plane at the top of the cliff in Season 1. That's when the plane dropped (almost over the hatch) and killed Boone.

2. Eko and Charlie went back to the plane in Season 2, and discovered the heroin and Eko's brother's body. Then Eko set fire to the plane.

3. Locke returned with Eko to the plane after seeing the map on the blast door when Ben/Henry was captive in the original hatch. Locke and Eko moved the plane to access the Pearl Station hatch opening. Eko climbed to the top of the cliff and saw his brother.

4. Shortly thereafter is when the search party (including Paolo & Nikki) returned to explore the monitors and toilet in the Pearl Station.

So Nikki and Paolo would have discovered the Pearl Station BEFORE Boone died in Season 1, before we ever got to see Nikki or Paolo (or "Nina & Pablo", as Sawyer put it). And, naturally, they decided to keep this important info to themselves.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That Nikki is listed in the credits for upcoming episodes doesn't mean much regarding whether she's dead or not, since "Lost" always does flashbacks. This episode, for example, featured 3 dead characters


Smeek....post #187.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

drew2k said:


> So is Billy Dee Williams the first famous guest star? Hmm ... some may consider that "stunt" casting ...


Don't say it...


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Here is a summarized time line I created, based on the Lostpedia time line as it relates to Ethan, Walt, and Ben:

Day 5 - Paulo and Nikki meet Ethan
Day 16 - Claire and Charlie are taken by Ethan. 
Day 23 - Paulo and Nikki find the plane and Pearl station
Day 27 - Claire escapes from the Staff with the help of Alex and Rousseau.
Day 28 - Ethan shows up and tells Charlie he wants Claire back, or else he will kill one of the survivors.
Day 29 - Ethan is lured into an ambush and killed by Charlie
Day 32 - Paulo find the diamonds in the water
Day 44 - Michael, Walt, Sawyer, and Jin leave on the raft
Day 44 - Walt is kidnapped, the raft is destroyed by the Others.
Day 48 - Paulo hides the diamonds in the Pearl bathroom
Day 48 - Ben and Juliet visit the Pearl, they plot to use Michael to get Jack
Day 50 - Michael talks to "Walt" on the computer.
Day 52 - Michael leaves camp to look for Walt, and is captured by the Hostiles.
Day 54 - Ms. Klugh asks Michael questions about Walt.
Day 58 - Rousseau captures Ben, Sayid takes him to the Swan
Day 61 - Ben is let out to eat cereal, Lockdown, Ben types the numbers into the computer.
Day 62 - Ms. Klugh tells Michael he can have Walt if he frees Ben and brings Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer.
Day 63 - Michael returns.
Day 64 - Michael frees Ben.
Day 65 - Locke and Eko discover the Pearl station.
Day 66 - Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer and Michael leave for the Others' camp. 
Day 71 - Locke, Sayid, Nikki, and Paulo return to the Pearl.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

So Paulo knew it was a trap when Michael took them to the others' camp. Maybe he was fed up with being left out of the loop and just didn't say anything-- we know he wasn't a good guy(don't need any black smoke to figure that out). Or maybe they could have avoided it all by just telling the rest of the camp what they were going to do. Paulo may not have even known Michael was back when they left, or he might have warned them. 

I really didn't notice how cute Paulo was until this episode. His accent kind of comes and goes. Nikki was just plain annoying. Nice to see her laying there covered in her precious diamonds. I hope Vincent doesn't dig her up.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Nobody mentioned that Paulo was Xerxes (the god-king) in 300.

(And Nikki being in next week's credits is _still_ not a spoiler.)


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> So Paulo knew it was a trap when Michael took them to the others' camp. Maybe he was fed up with being left out of the loop and just didn't say anything-- we know he wasn't a good guy(don't need any black smoke to figure that out). Or maybe they could have avoided it all by just telling the rest of the camp what they were going to do. Paulo may not have even known Michael was back when they left, or he might have warned them.


Or the writers hadn't made that part up yet.


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## TRD_Dan (Oct 13, 2005)

RegBarc said:


> I could have sworn I saw Rose during the initial crash sequence in last night's episode...


I also thought I saw her being worked on by someone.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TRD_Dan said:


> I also thought I saw her being worked on by someone.


Will someone *PLEASE* check?


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Before I read ANY of this thread, I need to post my quick stance before reading any posts influences my feelings:

That was AWESOME.

an obvious smeek: What better way to kill of two characters that the entire viewing audience hates?


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Will someone *PLEASE* check?


Heh. It happened at 0:12.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

jradford said:


> Before I read ANY of this thread, I need to post my quick stance before reading any posts influences my feelings:
> 
> That was AWESOME.
> 
> an obvious smeek: What better way to kill of two characters that the entire viewing audience hates?


Not the entire audience. I was pretty indifferent to them, but hate? No.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> It's a reference to the Poochie character from The Simpsons.












Greg


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

mojomom said:


> According to Lostpedia, Boone died on Day 40 on the Island.
> 
> In Expose, we see the scene in the Pearl hatch on Day 49, when Ben says that Tom should cover the hatch with the plane. Shouldn't the plane have already fallen on top of hte Pearl hatch by then? Am I missing something--in Expose we never saw that the plane had fallen, did we?
> 
> ...


The time line was fine. The plane had already fallen when Paulo was in the Pearl hiding the diamonds (it was day 49). The plane fell but was not coving the Pearl hatch until Tom moved it (new information from this episode). This is why Locke and Eko had to move the plane to gain entry, but Paulo, Ben, and Juliet did not. The line from Ben saying to have Tom move the plane is evidence that the plane did not cover the hatch when it fell. We know the plane had already fallen judging by the date presented. Make sense?

Plus, we saw Rose in the crash montage (Boone was trying to give her CPR and get a pen for a traecheotomy. Plus, when they showed the graveyard there were enough graves for Boone and Shannon.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I couldn't believe they actually went through with killing Nikki and Paolo!
> 
> I never understood why they were so disliked.


Me either. I thought it was kind of refreshing to see some new faces on the island.
One thing about it is, if you are a good looking female and get cast on Lost you better save your money because it will probably be a short gig.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> Vincent knew they weren't dead.


 :up: Great observation.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I think the Lost writers just couldn't win in regards to the "extra characters" issue.

First, people complain: There are supposed to be 40 survivors, where are these people?
So they give us 2 new characters that pop in occasionally to show that there are more

Then, people complain: What's the point in adding these new characters? They're so pointless....I hate them!
So they kill them off.

I think this episode was brilliant. It explains that there are other survivors, and connects them all the way back to the beginning with the current characters we know. Then it gives us a great twist ending. It even gets rid of them for those who didn't like these characters. It's a great way to try and please most of the fan base.


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

ok so that is another hour of my life I am not getting back, man it seems that they are struggling to keep the story going here. I mean it has gotten to the point that things don't have to have a point in the story any longer and anything can be thrown in at anytime and we should just accept that it is what it is, I really don't get this show any longer
I miss the first and second season when there was some real mystery to the others and the island itself, now it's all destroyed by the past seasons that drag on and on and on with no new info insight. how many more times can I hear on a commercial that everything will be revealed and WOW nothing gets revealed. I am going to hang in there and hope the pay off is worth it though,


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

devlindark said:


> ok so that is another hour of my life I am not getting back, man it seems that they are struggling to keep the story going here. I mean it has gotten to the point that things don't have to have a point in the story any longer and anything can be thrown in at anytime and we should just accept that it is what it is, I really don't get this show any longer
> I miss the first and second season when there was some real mystery to the others and the island itself, now it's all destroyed by the past seasons that drag on and on and on with no new info insight. how many more times can I hear on a commercial that everything will be revealed and WOW nothing gets revealed. I am going to hang in there and hope the pay off is worth it though,


Maybe you should do like me and stop watching the teasers. Seems like the ones who are pissed off the most every week are those who complain that the payoff wasn't what was promised in the ads.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

devlindark said:


> ok so that is another hour of my life I am not getting back,


I'll hazard a guess and say that no matter what you were doing during that time, you will never get that hour back.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

7thton said:


> Not true...Sawyer and the gang now have the walkie-talkie.


Thank you. I was worried I was going to read 7 pages of posts without seeing this. It doesn't advance the plot a ton, but it obviously will be an important asset.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

JYoung said:


> Most American Network productions are still shot in Hollywood.
> Some are shot in New York and others which have smaller budgets are shot in Vancouver.
> 
> But as stated, some productions are shot in Australia and there is a whole market in Australia for Australian programming and films which are shot in, surprise, Australia. Sydney has a number of production studios.
> ...


Locke was watching Expose in his apartment. This was pointed out on Lost Easter Eggs. The episode transcript includes the dialogue from the TV show and they clearly mention The Cobra.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So was ben's plan all along to exploit the love triangle between sawyer, kate, and jack? I can't imagine he planned for sawyer to live and not get murdered. His plan must have been to kill sawyer as proof that he will kill and then force jack to do the surgery in order to save kate??


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

jradford said:


> an obvious smeek: What better way to kill of two characters that the entire viewing audience hates?


The entire viewing audience didn't hate them, just a vocal majority.


devlindark said:


> I really don't get this show any longer


Then you never got it in the first place. This show is about the survivors first and foremost. This episode was about... the survivors.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I think the bit about moving the plane to cover the Pearl hatch was a bit of a retcon. They had to explain how Paolo was able to get into the hatch to hide the diamonds but also how Locke and Eko had to move the plane in order to get into it. Problem solved!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

drew2k said:


> No - on the show Billy Dee Williams was playing Mr. Billy Dee Williams playing Mr. LaShade, a "Bosley"-type role.


Are you making a distinction between Billy Dee Williams and _Mr._ Billy Dee Williams? I believe the point was that he should have been listed as playing _himself_, not the name of a character he played on a fictional show within the episode. On the credits for Expose he'd be listed as Mr. LaShade, but not on the credits for Lost.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> I think the bit about moving the plane to cover the Pearl hatch was a bit of a retcon. They had to explain how Paolo was able to get into the hatch to hide the diamonds but also how Locke and Eko had to move the plane in order to get into it. Problem solved!


The entire episode was full of retcon. It was not bad retcon like BSG, it was intentionally funny / over the top retcon.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Most American Network productions are still shot in Hollywood.
> Some are shot in New York and others which have smaller budgets are shot in Vancouver.
> 
> But as stated, some productions are shot in Australia and there is a whole market in Australia for Australian programming and films which are shot in, surprise, Australia. Sydney has a number of production studios.
> ...


Even if wprager hadn't pointed out that we saw Locke watching Expose, I'd still say that it seems unlikely. I would have agreed that it was a possibility, but given that all the characters we saw were American, it seemed more probable that it was an American market show. I thought of Vancouver, like you mentioned, but had never heard of Sydney being such a place for American market shows. I guess despite its distinctive landmarks, there are more than enough locations there that look just like typical American cities.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> The entire episode was full of retcon. It was not bad retcon like BSG, it was intentionally funny / over the top retcon.


And it was also very skillful retcon, in that it all fit in perfectly well with what we've seen before.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Shakhari said:


> I thought there were rumors from the producers that this was supposed to be some sort of pivotal episode and that those two were somehow crucial to the mystery, but I didn't see anything in the episode to substantiate that.


When we saw the flashback with Nikki in the house with the old guy, I just had this feeling that this man with money would be tied to Widmore or Dharma somehow. Maybe he ends up being a silent partner or investor or something. I would love it if someone with HD could go back and look at his obituary (article) that Nikki was reading from to see if there was any connecting information.

RAZZLE DAZZLE! (Made me think of O&A)

I actually had suspicions or inklings of the paralysis, the male spiders, and even the burying alive. But with that being said, I still loved, loved, loved this episode.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

wprager said:


> Locke was watching Expose in his apartment. This was pointed out on Lost Easter Eggs. The episode transcript includes the dialogue from the TV show and they clearly mention The Cobra.


I have to go back and watch that now.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jlb said:


> When we saw the flashback with Nikki in the house with the old guy, I just had this feeling that this man with money would be tied to Widmore or Dharma somehow. Maybe he ends up being a silent partner or investor or something. I would love it if someone with HD could go back and look at his obituary (article) that Nikki was reading from to see if there was any connecting information.


Interesting point. If not a link to Dharma than maybe an investor to Walt's mother company or Dr. Shepards brother. 
Is there any of the other Losties that we know about that don't have some connections? I am thinking as I ask this, and may well answer myself. The only connection I can see so far is the one mentioned - Locke was watching Expose.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

justapixel said:


> my husband told me to STFU.


Oh, he is totally getting banned.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And it was also very skillful retcon, in that it all fit in perfectly well with what we've seen before.


Yeah. They pretty much could have had nikki and paolo discover all kinds of secrets well ahead of time since they were partly making fun of their own losties don't talk writing.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

So has anyone actually gone back and watched the first episode of season 1 to see if they can see either of those 2 characters?

Overall I liked the episode a lot. The fact that it showed a different point of view of what was going on with some of the people on the island during their stay there. It was extremely odd that Paulo never mentioned that he found another hatch - especially after they discovered The Swan. Then again, he was hiding his diamonds there, so he didn't want anyone there at all.

I too heard the clicky noise after Nikki threw the spider on to Paulo. I'm thinking it has something to do with that "black box" that Ben was talking about last week.

Think about it, if that black box can materialize what someone is thinking about, perhaps it materializes ones worst fears...

Nikki KNEW that the pheromones of that spider would attract more of the species. Who's to say if there were any in the area... In knowing that if they were she was terrified that she too could get paralyzed... And then the friendly "monster/black box"dropped off some.

Hurley's imaginary friend - reminding him of his time in the asylum
Walt's Polar Bear
Echo's Brother (which Echo dis-believed, and then it turned in to some type of machine?)
A random black horse - not sure I get this.
Lock's Father.

Think about the first time Echo confronted the black smoke... near the water... He stared right at it... nothing happened.. nothing at all. My guess is because Echo was not afraid of ANYTHING...

I think the two are connected some how.

And I also think there were some serious answers in this episode then people are giving credit to. They are just very subtle.

Jullete didn't seem at ALL dissatisfied with Ben when they were talking in The Pearl. And now she wants off the island and everything? I know things can change, but they seem to be quite comfortable with one another, and Ben was extremely open with how he manipulates people. I think that he's using her, with her knowledge still, to control Jack.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

ducker said:


> So has anyone actually gone back and watched the first episode of season 1 to see if they can see either of those 2 characters?.


I'm planning on doing a split-screen comparison this weekend. I'm trying to remember if there have been any other episodes where they've flashed back to the initial beach crash scene, other than the pilot.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mask2343 said:


> Fun episode.
> 
> But Unecessary.


This is television.

Statement 1 means that statement 2 is irrelevant.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Wow, I thought this was an awesome episode. I thought it fit nicely and tied some things together in a cool way. I also liked the whole Sawyer who are you thing. Nice to see them actually poke fun at people a littel.

I definitely heard the clicky-clack sound of the smoke monster when the spiders came out.

I also liked the TZ, Outer Limits, Tales from the Crypt , Hitchcock, whatever homage as well.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Some general thoughts:

1. I loved this episode! On the whole, I think the second "pod" of episodes this season has been strong. I loved the first season of lost, liked the second season, began getting weary in the first part of season 3, and now I'm back to loving it again.

2. Like unicorngoddess, my thoughts went not to E.A. Poe, Twilight Zone, Hitchcock, or Tales from the Crypt, but rather to Stephen King and his story "Autopsy Room 4" - I think that's what it was called, anyway, especially considering the writers' professed love of things King. All are valid comparisons, though.

3. I couldn't put my finger on it until closer to the end, but near the beginning of the episode I looked at my wife and said "something's not right, here - they are doing flashbacks for two characters that are dead, and when the flashbacks conclude the camera focuses on the 'corpse' as if the corpse was having the flashback - how can that be?" The answer (that they weren't in fact dead) didn't strike me until much later. Nicely done.

4. One thing that remains confusing to me is Vincent's presence on the island. Didn't they make a point of showing that Vincent was on the boat with Michael and Waaalt when they left the island? How is it that he's back? He's been in a couple of episodes, now.

5. Regarding Arzt:



GDG76 said:


> How the hell did Artz know that there were so many new species on the island? You would have to be an animal expert to know every single variant of the different species. And he knew trajectories and hence physics too. Seems like a guy who would be featured a lot more in a survival type scenario


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Arzt is full of it and just basically makes things up - his character reminds me a bit of Cliff, from Cheers, only pompous. He helped Nikki and Paulo map out the trajectory for where they could find the suitcase and they found it there not because that's necessarily where it really landed, but because that's where the "magic box" manifested it for them to find. Kind of like Charlie's guitar just happening to be right above Locke and Charlie in Season 1... the island will provide. Or, for that matter, just as the Haliburton case was in that same spot, for Sawyer and Kate to find. And Arzt isn't an animal expert that knows every single variant of the different species - he was basically just making it up. But because he believes "this is a deadly Medusa spider that can paralyze its victim and whose pheremones attract other spiders from miles around," and because Nikki believed him, the island made it so. We heard the clacking noise when Nikki threw the spider at Paulo because - poof - it was that magic box again, manifesting spiders to be consistent with Nikki and Paulo's belief about what should happen next.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

wprager said:


> Locke was watching Expose in his apartment. This was pointed out on Lost Easter Eggs. The episode transcript includes the dialogue from the TV show and they clearly mention The Cobra.


Ok, I missed that one.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

danterner said:


> 4. One thing that remains confusing to me is Vincent's presence on the island. Didn't they make a point of showing that Vincent was on the boat with Michael and Waaalt when they left the island? How is it that he's back? He's been in a couple of episodes, now.


No.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

danterner said:


> 4. One thing that remains confusing to me is Vincent's presence on the island. Didn't they make a point of showing that Vincent was on the boat with Michael and Waaalt when they left the island? How is it that he's back? He's been in a couple of episodes, now.


No. They made it a point to show that Walt left him behind. He left him with Shannon because Shannon had just lost Boone and she had no one. That's why when Vincent ran off she was so upset because she was responsible for him. It was the first thing anyone let her be responsible for. Then she ended up chasing him into the woods and seeing Walt.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

JYoung said:


> No.


Okay, I've determined the following:

On the Season 2 DVD Extras Vincent was seen in the boat with Michael and Walt, however in the episode itself he was not seen at all. So 'canon' is that he was not on the boat and remained behind on the island, but there is a deleted scene that shows him leaving with Michael and Walt.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> No. They made it a point to show that Walt left him behind. He left him with Shannon because Shannon had just lost Boone and she had no one. That's why when Vincent ran off she was so upset because she was responsible for him. It was the first thing anyone let her be responsible for. Then she ended up chasing him into the woods and seeing Walt.


That's when they left on the raft. I was talking about when they left on the Others' boat after Michael made his deal with them (but, as indicated above - mystery solved anyway).


----------



## ireland967 (Feb 27, 2003)

danterner said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Arzt is full of it and just basically makes things up


I think this has to be the case, or we're just meant to suspend disbelief for sake of the story. If he discovered an entirely new species of spider, how would he know that the release of its pheremones would attract a slew of males immediately, and that its bite paralyzes victims for around 8 hours?

Great episode though, and I don't think we're done with these two. They either somehow live (unlikely), or their past actions come up again.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

ducker said:


> Jullete didn't seem at ALL dissatisfied with Ben when they were talking in The Pearl. And now she wants off the island and everything? I know things can change, but they seem to be quite comfortable with one another, and Ben was extremely open with how he manipulates people. I think that he's using her, with her knowledge still, to control Jack.


That was BEFORE she was exposed to Jack and his pheremones that attract females and destroy their ability to think rationally. I have lots of experience with this problem.

(Joking - please do not tell wife)


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

danterner said:


> That's when they left on the raft. I was talking about when the left on the Others' boat after Michael made his deal with them (but, as indicated above - mystery solved anyway).


Oh. Sorry, my bad. Either way though, Walt was never reunited with Vincent because Michael and them surely didn't take the dog with them on the journey to the other side of the island where they were ambushed.


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Podcast for "Expose" is now online.

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast?pn=podcast


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Overall, an enjoyable episode. I wish it had moved the overall storyline along, but even without doing so, it was a nice stand-alone ep. It was also VERY interesting to see how the cast tried to unravel the riddle of what happened to Nikki and Paolo - and were way off the mark. I guess this is a broad hint of what to expect as further secrets are revealed.

My question is if the events in this episode have any long-term significance:
1. Will someone try to dig up the grave to get the diamonds? If so, they may be in for a surprise when they see the corpses were clawing at the dirt.

2. So Sawyer found the walkie-talkie that Paolo found in the hatch, and assumed he was working with the Others. Which he wasn't. Will this suspicion further fuel the anger he has towards the Others?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ireland967 said:


> I think this has to be the case, or we're just meant to suspend disbelief for sake of the story. If he discovered an entirely new species of spider, how would he know that the release of its pheremones would attract a slew of males immediately, and that its bite paralyzes victims for around 8 hours?
> 
> Great episode though, and I don't think we're done with these two. They either somehow live (unlikely), or their past actions come up again.


I think the two statements were independent of one another. He told of finding new species, and then he told about the Medusa spider. It didn't mean that the spider was one of the new species.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Big_Daddy said:


> 2. So Sawyer found the walkie-talkie that Paolo found in the hatch, and assumed he was working with the Others. Which he wasn't. Will this suspicion further fuel the anger he has towards the Others?


They kept trying to kill him. Were it I, I would not need any additional motivation beyond that, but maybe Sawyer's a kinder, gentler person.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Big_Daddy said:


> ...1. Will someone try to dig up the grave to get the diamonds? If so, they may be in for a surprise when they see the corpses were clawing at the dirt....


Negative....first of all it was sand and not dirt, and there won't be any signs they were clawing at anything. They pretty much died immediately of suffocation (of course, if they even died!).


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Exactly Bierboy. I assume that since they lost use of their hands well before they lost use of their eyes and mouth that the reverse will occur. They will suffocate in a couple of minutes or so because they just can;t move anything else.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

danterner said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Arzt is full of it and just basically makes things up - his character reminds me a bit of Cliff, from Cheers, only pompous...... And Arzt isn't an animal expert that knows every single variant of the different species - he was basically just making it up.


Of course it was BS. Even if he was an expert on every sort of insect and spider and animal in the world he still couldn't designate something a "new species" without some great magnification tools and a pile of reference books.

Nikki was hot, he was not, so he dazzled her with bogus brilliance.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

This image doesn't get in close enough to read the article itself (per my hope above of a connection to Dharma, Widmore, etc.), but I do find the name of the paper to be quite interesting, _Brotha_.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> Of course it was BS. Even if he was an expert on every sort of insect and spider and animal in the world he still couldn't designate something a "new species" without some great magnification tools and a pile of reference books.
> 
> Nikki was hot, he was not, so he dazzled her with bogus brilliance.


It's not a good idea to give away the secrets of middle aged male behaviour to hotties on a forum that women can access.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> It's not a good idea to give away the secrets of middle aged male behaviour to hotties on a forum that women can access.


 :up: :up: :up:

Greg


----------



## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

danterner said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Arzt is full of it and just basically makes things up - his character reminds me a bit of Cliff, from Cheers, only pompous. He helped Nikki and Paulo map out the trajectory for where they could find the suitcase and they found it there not because that's necessarily where it really landed, but because that's where the "magic box" manifested it for them to find...... And Arzt isn't an animal expert that knows every single variant of the different species - he was basically just making it up. But because he believes "this is a deadly Medusa spider that can paralyze its victim and whose pheremones attract other spiders from miles around," and because Nikki believed him, the island made it so. We heard the clacking noise when Nikki threw the spider at Paulo because - poof - it was that magic box again, manifesting spiders to be consistent with Nikki and Paulo's belief about what should happen next.


I think this is a very good theory. It would also fit very well with how Arzt blew up. He was talking about how dangerous and unstable the TNT was and BOOM, self fulfilling prophecy. I don't give the writers enough credit to believe that they are this clever and this subtle so Iamb not holding my breath or betting that it is their plan all along, but it would fit with how things happened for him.



scottykempf said:


> Podcast for "Expose" is now online.
> 
> http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast?pn=podcast


Does anyone know a way to download the podcasts (audio or video) other than a screen or sound recorder? Id like to download them to my phone so I can listen to them offline.


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## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Nikki was hot, he was not, so he dazzled her with bogus brilliance.


That's always been my motto! You know what they say:

If you can't Dazzle them with Brilliance, Baffle them with Bull S#$^!


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

When you go to the ABC website, where it says "download" for the podcast, instead of left clicking on the link, right click instead and you will get a download "save as" screen.


----------



## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> When you go to the ABC website, where it says "download" for the podcast, instead of left clicking on the link, right click instead and you will get a download "save as" screen.


Thank you! I didn't dig around and see the audio only version. I went right to the video podcast. Since those two goofs are just sitting around talking I don't suppose its worth the trouble to try and get the video.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

I agree but it wouldn't be hard to bring them back. One flash back showing Vincent digging them out immediately after everyone else leaves. Next scene showing them replacing the sand and then off to the jungle. They could come back alive next week, next season or even the last episode.

A lot more plausible then.....a lot of posters don't like spoilers but there are tons of shows that brought back characters with a lot less to go with. Think of the way Patrick Duffy was brought back.



ireland967 said:


> Great episode though, and I don't think we're done with these two. They either somehow live (unlikely), or their past actions come up again.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I am begging you people, do not, DO NOT, give the writers any ideas how to bring back that loathsome pair


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Big_Daddy said:


> Overall, an enjoyable episode. I wish it had moved the overall storyline along, but even without doing so, it was a nice stand-alone ep. It was also VERY interesting to see how the cast tried to unravel the riddle of what happened to Nikki and Paolo - and were way off the mark. I guess this is a broad hint of what to expect as further secrets are revealed.
> 
> My question is if the events in this episode have any long-term significance:
> 1. Will someone try to dig up the grave to get the diamonds? If so, they may be in for a surprise when they see the corpses were clawing at the dirt.
> ...


I brought up the possibility of #1 a couple pages back, and I do think that someone will try to dig up the diamonds (and that everyone will assume it's Sawyer). But I agree with the other responses that it wouldn't make sense. And it may not be that someone digs up the bodies; they could get washed up by the high tide Locke was talking about before anyone gets around to going after the diamonds.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

danterner said:


> 3. I couldn't put my finger on it until closer to the end, but near the beginning of the episode I looked at my wife and said "something's not right, here - they are doing flashbacks for two characters that are dead, and when the flashbacks conclude the camera focuses on the 'corpse' as if the corpse was having the flashback - how can that be?" The answer (that they weren't in fact dead) didn't strike me until much later. Nicely done.


There's really no reason to assume that flashbacks have to be done for live characters, or even that the characters themselves are actually having those memories at that time. I consider it to just be a storytelling technique constructed for us, not specifically integrated into the character's thoughts at the moment.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> It's not a good idea to give away the secrets of middle aged male behaviour to hotties on a forum that women can access.


Because until now, we had no idea that kind of thing goes on.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> There's really no reason to assume that flashbacks have to be done for live characters, or even that the characters themselves are actually having those memories at that time. I consider it to just be a storytelling technique constructed for us, not specifically integrated into the character's thoughts at the moment.


I absolutely agree, but it makes me wonder... are the flashbacks in this show always entirely from the perspective of the Lost character? I.e., is there always a Lost person in every flashback scene, or are we occasionally shown things that the Lost person doesn't know about him/herself?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I absolutely agree, but it makes me wonder... are the flashbacks in this show always entirely from the perspective of the Lost character? I.e., is there always a Lost person in every flashback scene, or are we occasionally shown things that the Lost person doesn't know about him/herself?


This goes hand in hand with what the flashbacks ARE. They're character development. They aren't what the character is remembering happened, it's what happened, whether the character knows about it or not.

This was unimportant to plot in this example, but remember Hurley at the airport, rushing to make the flight? He ran by as we saw a soccer team, the numbers of which were Hurley's numbers. They had their backs to the camera. Hurley didn't see the numbers, but we did... they were there.

The flashbacks are for our benefit, for the story's benefit, and not the characters' benefits.

Greg


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Big_Daddy said:


> It was also VERY interesting to see how the cast tried to unravel the riddle of what happened to Nikki and Paolo - and were way off the mark. I guess this is a broad hint of what to expect as further secrets are revealed.


Kind of like what happens here every week 



mitkraft said:


> Thank you! I didn't dig around and see the audio only version. I went right to the video podcast. Since those two goofs are just sitting around talking I don't suppose its worth the trouble to try and get the video.


There is no audio-only version of the video podcast, it was just video-only that week. The last video podcast was from January.

The ABC website has the last 14 audio podcasts available to download, and Lostpedia has most of the rest of them going back to 2005.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

For those who haven't listened to the podcast for Expose, theirs a great bit about Vincent and the finale. LOL


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> Nikki was hot, he was not, so he *razzle* dazzled her with bogus brilliance.


Fixed your post.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

mitkraft said:


> I think this is a very good theory. It would also fit very well with how Arzt blew up. He was talking about how dangerous and unstable the TNT was and BOOM, self fulfilling prophecy. I don't give the writers enough credit to believe that they are this clever and this subtle so I am not holding my breath or betting that it is their plan all along, but it would fit with how things happened for him.


Thanks! I agree that Arzt's blowing up fits into this, and nearly posted as much when I originally posted the above. I don't think that this is limited to Arzt. I think the island is basically a special place where, if you believe something strongly enough, it manifests. Walt was "a very special boy" because he was able to do the same thing, even before coming to the island. Locke is another example of this in action - he believed himself into being a non-paralyzed man-of-action, and, upon arrival to the island, so it came to be.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> For those who haven't listened to the podcast for Expose, theirs a great bit about Vincent and the finale. LOL


Theirs? Who are they? Others?

Greg


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gchance said:


> Theirs? Who are they? Others?
> 
> Greg


Pull over to the side of the road....here come the Grammar Police


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

danterner said:


> Some general thoughts:
> 
> 5. Regarding Arzt:
> 
> ...


Now I think you might have something here... Arzt does(edit. DID) seem to be a bit clueless overall. He was a real boob when dealing with the dynamite.

But I thought I didn't hear the clicks, until AFTER Paulo killed the initial spider.

Anyone remember?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

ducker said:


> I too heard the clicky noise after Nikki threw the spider on to Paulo. I'm thinking it has something to do with that "black box" that Ben was talking about last week.
> 
> Think about it, if that black box can materialize what someone is thinking about, perhaps it materializes ones worst fears...
> 
> ...


Whoa, interesting post.. You're right - everything (that you listed, at least) that "appeared" on the island is something that one of the Losties was afraid of (or could be, in the case of Walt, even though the bears have a believable "normal" explanation if they can swim between islands).. Kate's memory of the horse is being startled that it was there, leading to a car crash. Hurley's afraid that Dave has returned and that Hurley is sick. Eko was probably afraid of having to face his brother after the things he did. And Locke obviously fears his father.

Maybe the black smoke is a defense mechanism after all (as Danielle said), and it scans you to find your fears.. It scanned Eko that first time, and saw nothing.. (And remember, John hasn't seen the black smoke, at least not in the form of black smoke.. Eko described it, and John said that wasn't what he saw).



> Jullete didn't seem at ALL dissatisfied with Ben when they were talking in The Pearl. And now she wants off the island and everything? I know things can change, but they seem to be quite comfortable with one another, and Ben was extremely open with how he manipulates people. I think that he's using her, with her knowledge still, to control Jack.


Yeah but in the first episode of the season we see the book club argument and there's some dissatisfaction there.. Unless they're also trying to trick some portion of their own population of Others, there was no good audience to see that "faked hostility".


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

hefe said:


> There's really no reason to assume that flashbacks have to be done for live characters, or even that the characters themselves are actually having those memories at that time. I consider it to just be a storytelling technique constructed for us, not specifically integrated into the character's thoughts at the moment.


Yeah now see I disagree a bit here.. So far, they _have_ all been for live characters, and for all we know that could turn out to be very relevant (they're all sitting in a cold room on that island, strapped to tables, and someone's implanting or triggering memories, etc).

When we saw Nikki's first flashback (RAZZLE DAZZLE!), it was normal.. Then she "died".. The next flashback wasn't like that - it had a caption (I forget the number of days, but something like "80 days earlier"). I actually paused the show at that point and told my wife that I thought that was the first time we'd ever seen that - a flashback for a dead person - and that it was particularly cool/interesting that they didn't do it like a regular flashback, but rather as a "here's what happened previously"-captioned moment..

Later in the episode I thought "ah, this is more like a "other 48 days" episode, almost forgetting the actual pre-crash flashbacks we'd seen..


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> Maybe the black smoke is a defense mechanism after all (as Danielle said), and it scans you to find your fears.. It scanned Eko that first time, and saw nothing.. (And remember, John hasn't seen the black smoke, at least not in the form of black smoke.. Eko described it, and John said that wasn't what he saw).


Didn't Lock see it in the first season.... Lock was running away from it and it got him and started pulling him down into a hole in the ground. Perhaps he never really saw it, he was running away.

Also... earlier when Lock and Boone were exploring the plane. When John was losing the feeling in his legs again, I wonder if during those times we EVER heard the clicks... I wish I could find which episode that was, and go back to watch it and check...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Pull over to the side of the road....here come the Grammar Police


Just be careful you don't attract the attention of the Grammar Nazis, with their camps...


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

ducker said:


> Now I think you might have something here... Arzt does(edit. DID) seem to be a bit clueless overall. He was a real boob when dealing with the dynamite.
> 
> But I thought I didn't hear the clicks, until AFTER Paulo killed the initial spider.
> 
> Anyone remember?


I am fairly certain that the noises only started just before the other spiders started coming out from everywhere.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> I absolutely agree, but it makes me wonder... are the flashbacks in this show always entirely from the perspective of the Lost character? I.e., is there always a Lost person in every flashback scene, or are we occasionally shown things that the Lost person doesn't know about him/herself?


Mostly, the flashback character is in every flashback scene. The only sort-of exception I remember is that sometimes with Jin and Sun and also with Michael and Walt, they have shown it as one person's flashback, but there is a scene where only the other one is there. And I can't at this point I can't think of any specifics.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> For those who haven't listened to the podcast for Expose, there's a great bit about Vincent and the finale. LOL


Anyone care to post a summary of this podcast? For those of us who are caption-viewers, podcasts are about as useful as a string condom.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Anyone care to post a summary of this podcast? For those of us who are caption-viewers, podcasts are about as useful as a string condom.


You may already know this, but Lostpedia has transcripts. But they don't have this week's up yet. But they do have last week's, so this week's should be up fairly soon.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/March_26%2C_2007

Of course, that doesn't help you now. I haven't listened to the podcast, or I'd do better for you.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

wprager said:


> Locke was watching Expose in his apartment. This was pointed out on Lost Easter Eggs. The episode transcript includes the dialogue from the TV show and they clearly mention The Cobra.


Also, in the Desmond-centric episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes," there's a soccer match shown on a television. Around the soccer field are advertisements for various Lost-centric things. There are ads for Mr. Clucks, Apollo candybars, Gannon Car Rentals, the Hanso Foundation, Bubbies diapers (the brand Charlie did the commercial for), Oceanic Airlines, and... wait for it... Expose.

Credit where credit is due: not my find. Just saw it on an easter egg site. Here's a link: http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=220


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Which episode was it where Locke was watching "Expose"?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

tewcewl said:


> Which episode was it where Locke was watching "Expose"?


13


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I'm planning on doing a split-screen comparison this weekend. I'm trying to remember if there have been any other episodes where they've flashed back to the initial beach crash scene, other than the pilot.


I think they flashed back to it a couple of times before... didn't they do a flashback to that scene in the episode where we learn locke used to be paralyzed?

They probably keep the set stored so they can go back to it.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jlb said:


> RAZZLE DAZZLE! (Made me think of O&A)


 O&A?  
Why do people use acronyms for obscure references? Not everybody who reads these forums knows what every acronym stands for.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

getreal said:


> O&A?
> Why do people use acronyms for obscure references? Not everybody who reads these forums knows what every acronym stands for.


O&A will not be happy to hear that you think "O&A" is an obscure reference. 

O&A are Opie and Anthony.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

mitkraft said:


> That's always been my motto! You know what they say:
> 
> If you can't Dazzle them with Brilliance, Baffle them with Bull S#$^!


Or, in Nikki's case, if you can't Razzle Dazzle her ...


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

hefe said:


> There's really no reason to assume that flashbacks have to be done for live characters, or even that the characters themselves are actually having those memories at that time. I consider it to just be a storytelling technique constructed for us, not specifically integrated into the character's thoughts at the moment.


Still waiting for Vincent's flashback episode.
Chasing cars, sniffing crotches, eating crap, licking himself ... ehh, on second thought, maybe we can do without Vincent's flashback episode ...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I think they flashed back to it a couple of times before... didn't they do a flashback to that scene in the episode where we learn locke used to be paralyzed?
> 
> They probably keep the set stored so they can go back to it.


No way they re-shot any of the post crash footage for this episode. IIRC, the pilot was one of the most expensive hours of TV ever produced. There's no way they recreated that whole thing just for a few seconds of flashback footage. I guaranatee they've got miles of footage from the pilot in storage and it wouldn't be hard to digitally insert someone into those shots. I'd bet my house that this is what they did in this episode.


----------



## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Goodbye hottie


----------



## BuckAv (Dec 17, 2006)

getreal said:


> Still waiting for Vincent's flashback episode.
> Chasing cars, sniffing crotches, eating crap, licking himself ... ehh, on second thought, maybe we can do without Vincent's flashback episode ...


Back in the days of season one, I know that TPTB said they strongly considered a Vincent flashback episode, but decided that they couldn't get enough "emotional range" out of a dog, or something like that.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Okay here is what I thought about today.

If Nikki was bitten and KNEW she would be paralyzed...why the hell take time to bury diamonds?

Why not stick them in your underwear (as paolo did) and then get to help before you seize up.

She was able to say sort of two words. If she had not stopped to bury diamonds could she have squeeked out some more to let them know not to bury her?


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

BuckAv said:


> Back in the days of season one, I know that TPTB said they strongly considered a Vincent flashback episode, but decided that they couldn't get enough "emotional range" out of a dog, or something like that.


And there is a NEW Vincent in town.  I really like Vincent. They could do a flashback...it would be fun.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/03/25/features/story01.html


----------



## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> I thought this was a great episode. I have no idea why people had such an issue with these characters in the first place.


Me neither. Didn't even know anyone had any issues with them until reading the misplaced vitriol towards them here. I actually kind of liked them.



NoThru22 said:


> The entire viewing audience didn't hate them, just a vocal majority.


Vocal *minority*.



danterner said:


> Also, in the Desmond-centric episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes," there's a soccer match shown on a television. Around the soccer field are advertisements for various Lost-centric things. There are ads for Mr. Clucks, Apollo candybars, Gannon Car Rentals, the Hanso Foundation, Bubbies diapers (the brand Charlie did the commercial for), Oceanic Airlines, and... wait for it... Expose.


 :up: Love stuff like that.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

aindik said:


> O&A will not be happy to hear that you think "O&A" is an obscure reference.
> 
> O&A are Opie and Anthony.


They might not like it, but they are very much an obscure reference.


Fraser+Dief said:


> Vocal *minority*.


It was not a typo, I meant, and said, vocal majority.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

danterner said:


> Also, in the Desmond-centric episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes," there's a soccer match shown on a television. Around the soccer field are advertisements for various Lost-centric things. There are ads for Mr. Clucks, Apollo candybars, Gannon Car Rentals, the Hanso Foundation, Bubbies diapers (the brand Charlie did the commercial for), Oceanic Airlines, and... wait for it... Expose.
> 
> Credit where credit is due: not my find. Just saw it on an easter egg site. Here's a link: http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=220


And was one of the the soccer teams from the episode where Hurley ran through the airport? And were their numbers the same?


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

hefe said:


> There's really no reason to assume that flashbacks have to be done for live characters, or even that the characters themselves are actually having those memories at that time. I consider it to just be a storytelling technique constructed for us, not specifically integrated into the character's thoughts at the moment.


Weird. I've always thought of the flashbacks as the memories the character is having at that time. They are shown from a third-person perspective so we get to see more than the character actually sees, but I've always thought that character is remembering that particular moment of their life when the flashback happens.

I can usually even tell why they are remembering that particular thing at that time if I bother to think about it much. The flashbacks always seem somewhat linked to whatever is happening on the island and it seems like something currently happening reminds them of the stuff in the flashback.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

stalemate said:


> I can usually even tell why they are remembering that particular thing at that time if I bother to think about it much. The flashbacks always seem somewhat linked to whatever is happening on the island and it seems like something currently happening reminds them of the stuff in the flashback.


Well, I can see why some may think that, especially in certain cases. I think that what is happening in the moment *is *usually affected and informed by something from the character's past, but it's just always been my assumption that the flashbacks are there to clue us in about it in a third person kind of way.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

getreal said:


> Still waiting for Vincent's flashback episode.
> Chasing cars, sniffing crotches, eating crap, licking himself ... ehh, on second thought, maybe we can do without Vincent's flashback episode ...


I think you missed the MAJOR hint LOST's writers gave us.
Think again about them there cats featured couple episodes ago...


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> It was not a typo, I meant, and said, vocal majority.


And, you were quite correct.

Our prayers were answered.
G'day Nikki & Paulo!


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

LouCipher said:


> Yeah, but based on what we have seen Ben do and how he manipulates, it is conceivable that Walt was taken to lure Michael, yada yada yada, Jack does the surgery. I interpreted the scene with Ben & Juliet to mean it all could be an elaborate chain of events planned by Ben so that he could get his surgery - triggered by the kidnapping of Walt or a prior event (plane crash?). Plans within plans within plans.


I thought this was a pretty big plot-advancing revelation, myself. That Ben's had the need for surgery all this time and that the whole plot going on from mid-season-2 to mid-season-3 all revolved around this one thing. It explains so many things, if it's true. I can see how people might not really think of it as a big revelation, but I think it is.


MickeS said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That Nikki is listed in the credits for upcoming episodes doesn't mean much regarding whether she's dead or not, since "Lost" always does flashbacks. This episode, for example, featured 3 dead characters





Spoiler



Four at least. Artz, Boone, Shannon, and Ethan.





MickeS said:


> Maybe you should do like me and stop watching the teasers. Seems like the ones who are pissed off the most every week are those who complain that the payoff wasn't what was promised in the ads.


Quoted for truth.


philw1776 said:


> I am begging you people, do not, DO NOT, give the writers any ideas how to bring back that loathsome pair


The writers joked about this themselves already. "Bulletproof breasts", remember? The whole episode was winking at us.


aindik said:


> O&A are Opie and Anthony.


I _still_ don't know who they are.

For my part, I thought this was a great episode, on a par with early season 2, almost up to season 1. I wish we hadn't deleted it from our DVR because I want to go back through it looking for things that only seem important afterwards (you know what happens to guest stars, bulletproof breasts, nothing stays buried, Vincent pulling off the towel, etc.)


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

If anyone has heard of RiffTrax by Mike Nelson from MST3K fame, he has now done a commentary for the pilot episode of Lost. Basically, he and sometimes Kevin Murphy, also of MST3K, record a commentary track for different movies and then you can download it to your mp3 player and sync it up to the movie. Check it out.

http://www.rifftrax.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=65


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> I wish we hadn't deleted it from our DVR because I want to go back through it looking for things that only seem important afterwards (you know what happens to guest stars, bulletproof breasts, nothing stays buried, Vincent pulling off the towel, etc.)


abc.com


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> IQuoted for truth.
> The writers joked about this themselves already. "Bulletproof breasts", remember? The whole episode was winking at us.
> 
> For my part, I thought this was a great episode, on a par with early season 2, almost up to season 1. I wish we hadn't deleted it from our DVR because I want to go back through it looking for things that only seem important afterwards (you know what happens to guest stars, bulletproof breasts, nothing stays buried, Vincent pulling off the towel, etc.)


I agree completely. The writers were having fun, expressing a self-depricating sense of humor. A great change of pace episode, cleverly done.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Hunter Green said:


> The whole episode was winking at us.


I agree. In fact, the whole episode was one big Russian Doll. The smallest doll was Expose, a show involving a murder mystery. The next layer up was this atypical episode of Lost where the mystery (of N&P) was presented and solved within a single episode and there were many nudge-nudge/wink-wink moments throughout - if some of the characterization seemed slightly off in this episode, I'd argue it was done very intentionally so: our Losties were themselves acting as if they were characters in a show like Expose. The next larger "doll" is Lost itself, a show about a mystery wrapped in a conundrum wrapped in a riddle. And, at the center of it all, when you get to the heart of things, are some diamonds (metaphorically, the answer to the riddle that is Lost). At the end of this episode, the diamonds get buried again. But, there's also some hope: as Locke says - "things on this island tend not to stay buried."

I may be smeeking here - sorry if so. I know I've seen this discussed in other places, but not here, I think.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> You may already know this, but Lostpedia has transcripts. But they don't have this week's up yet. But they do have last week's, so this week's should be up fairly soon.
> http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/March_26%2C_2007
> 
> Of course, that doesn't help you now. I haven't listened to the podcast, or I'd do better for you.


Thanks, didn't know that!


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

The whole kidnap Walt to get Michael to get Jack plan seems a little extreme. That time when Jack went to the line to talk to Mr. Friendly, and Kate trailed along and was taken, they could easily have convinced Jack to trade himself for Kate. Then they could threaten harm to the Losties' camp to get him to perform the surgery. 

"THE PIGS ARE WALKING, THE PIGS ARE WALKING!"

They still need to explain why Nikki and Paulo had the walkie talkie. We know where it came from, but they don't.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> If anyone has heard of RiffTrax by Mike Nelson from MST3K fame, he has now done a commentary for the pilot episode of Lost. Basically, he and sometimes Kevin Murphy, also of MST3K, record a commentary track for different movies and then you can download it to your mp3 player and sync it up to the movie. Check it out.
> 
> http://www.rifftrax.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=65


If you're saying it's worth it (and kind of along the lines of MST3K for the Lost pilot except just audio with no silhouettes), then I'd consider buying that for $2.99. Is it worth buying?


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

If Paulo was bitten/paralyzed before Nikki, why did she wake up (well, open her eyes) first? Also, you would think with his larger body mass, he wouldn't have gotten as much venom as her. 

Unless, of course, his shot of venom was stronger than hers.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jenhudson said:


> If Paulo was bitten/paralyzed before Nikki, why did she wake up (well, open her eyes) first? Also, you would think with his larger body mass, he wouldn't have gotten as much venom as her.
> 
> Unless, of course, his shot of venom was stronger than hers.


Maybe real spiders are more potent than island-induced fantasy spiders...


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> If Paulo was bitten/paralyzed before Nikki, why did she wake up (well, open her eyes) first? Also, you would think with his larger body mass, he wouldn't have gotten as much venom as her.
> 
> Unless, of course, his shot of venom was stronger than hers.


Wasn't the spider that bit him a female, and the other spiders were males attracted by the pheremones? So of course it's venom was worse.


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

...as always. 

But, why are we calling this a "stand-alone" ep?
Until the series has ended (which I must say, the story will *NEVER* die), who knows what had *NO* meaning and what *DID*.
Until the series has ended (officially), I will tend to believe the production staff, who still claim it will all make sense in the end.
*Is that crazy or insane???*
 
I'm sure it's one of the two.

But that's what this show does to us who are *on the list *.


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

super dave said:


> Goodbye hottie


Oh yeah, That's nice.
Get hormones involved and stuff. 

But don't forget that the network stooges know what sells...
And I'm buyin'.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jlb said:


> This image doesn't get in close enough to read the article itself (per my hope above of a connection to Dharma, Widmore, etc.), but I do find the name of the paper to be quite interesting, _Brotha_.


Plus, and I'm sure someone already noted this elsewhere, there's a date on that newspaper: September 24, 2004. So this episode took place December 13, 2004.
EDIT: It actually says "Thursday, September 24, 2004" - although Thursday would have been September 23...

Not that I know if there's any significance to this, but I noticed that the Lostpedia has the timeline wrong (they list this latest episode as taking place December 11, 2004) if we go by this info. But maybe there is conflicting info earlier in the series?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

jenhudson said:


> If Paulo was bitten/paralyzed before Nikki, why did she wake up (well, open her eyes) first? Also, you would think with his larger body mass, he wouldn't have gotten as much venom as her.
> 
> Unless, of course, his shot of venom was stronger than hers.


Paulo was bitten on the neck, which made it work faster...so maybe the poison would last longer on him.



jkeegan said:


> If you're saying it's worth it (and kind of along the lines of MST3K for the Lost pilot except just audio with no silhouettes), then I'd consider buying that for $2.99. Is it worth buying?


I downloaded it. I'm gonna watch it here in a bit. I'll let you know if it's any good.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Just finished watching the first episode with the Riff Trax. I love Kevin Murphey, so obviously I loved it. Also Kevin and Mike point out some of those obvious things that viewers complain about. I hope they do the rest of the season, but if they do 2.99/episode would be steep. Maybe 2.99 per disc.

Also, after watching the first episode, it was pretty clear that there was no Nikki or Paulo.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Thanks, too, mqpickles for posting the Lost podcast transcripts. I had no idea about it!


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

danterner said:


> I agree. In fact, the whole episode was one big Russian Doll.


Oh, nice observation. Also explains why Paolo had to break the innermost one to get the diamonds out, he couldn't just open it. Otherwise, that particular detail seems kind of pointless.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jenhudson said:


> If Paulo was bitten/paralyzed before Nikki, why did she wake up (well, open her eyes) first? Also, you would think with his larger body mass, he wouldn't have gotten as much venom as her.
> 
> Unless, of course, his shot of venom was stronger than hers.


I assumed Paulo was paralyzed longer because he was bitten more than once, while Nikki was only bitten once. I figured that all the other spiders that showed up had a field day biting lots of Paulo bits ... but now that I think about it, should'nt spider bites have left some kind of visible marks that Hurley, Sawyer, etc. would have seen?


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

I figured it was because Nikki commented on where he got bit. The neck probably resulted in a more serious bite. She was nipped on the ankle.


----------



## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Sorry for a possible smeek, but I have a headache, and after 3 pages of threads, I can't read anymore, but I didn't see this mentioned.

I don't think we've seen the last of Nikki and Paolo.

Locke said to Paolo



Spoiler



"Nothing on this Island stays buried"



Also, in the preview next week:



Spoiler



it's pouring rain. Probably enough to make the sand loose enough for Nikki and Paolo to crawl out


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Poisons do funny things to people, and not always exactly "by the book". But I think the whole hubbub over who was bit more (or longer), who would've been out longer, etc., etc., boils down to this: they only showed us Nikki in the hole, we never saw Paulo's eyes. Maybe he did come around sooner, just ... not ... soon enough. 

It was her idea, after all. (the theft, probably the old guy's death, the spider, the running to the beach.) Makes the ending more karmic, that's all.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

drew2k said:


> ... but now that I think about it, should'nt spider bites have left some kind of visible marks that Hurley, Sawyer, etc. would have seen?


They all should probably have lots of bites on them. I don't think those you mentioned would be able to determine the differences among insect bites. JMHO.


----------



## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

I, for one, welcome our new crime-fighting, stripper overladies. Here's hoping for more character development on those two.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

TiMo Tim said:


> I, for one, welcome our new crime-fighting, stripper overladies. Here's hoping for more character development on those two.


Now that's the kind of thinking we need the writers to pick up on


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I've listened to it over and over, and I can't hear the monster clunking you're talking about when the spiders come. Does everybody hear this except me?


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I've listened to it over and over, and I can't hear the monster clunking you're talking about when the spiders come. Does everybody hear this except me?


No, your not the only one.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I never heard any mechanical sounds during the spider attack either. I just figured others had better sound systems or better imaginations.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

:up: Thanks, I feel better.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

drew2k said:


> I never heard any mechanical sounds during the spider attack either. I just figured others had better sound systems or better imaginations.


Same here! I feel better now.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

stiffi said:


> ...Also, in the preview next week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


....or...


Spoiler



too heavy for them to move at all!!


----------



## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

drew2k said:


> I never heard any mechanical sounds during the spider attack either. I just figured others had better sound systems or better imaginations.


The only mechanical clunking I heard was as Nikki undid Paolo's belt. There was a slight chain-like clanking right then.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I'm planning on doing a split-screen comparison this weekend. I'm trying to remember if there have been any other episodes where they've flashed back to the initial beach crash scene, other than the pilot.


Here's where someone has done a comparison between this episode and the pilot showing how Nikki was digitally inserted into the original footage.

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/chroma-key-scenes.html


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> Here's where someone has done a comparison between this episode and the pilot showing how Nikki was digitally inserted into the original footage.
> 
> http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/chroma-key-scenes.html


Some of thew comments there are truly asinine.



Anonymous said:


> The crash site/scene is sacred ground to true LOST fans... it's where it all began for us, where we first connected the show. And for them to re-enact it with wigs, add nicki and paulo, etc. really really disappointed me. I didn't really care for Expose much in the first place, but i think they could've done without re-doing this scene. I dunno, for me it sort of took away from the original scene in Season 1


That person needs to find God or get a life.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Some of thew comments there are truly asinine.
> 
> That person needs to find God or get a life.


Absolutely.


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Some of thew comments there are truly asinine.
> 
> That person needs to find God or get a life.


Finding God would just put him in the same situation of more questions than answers.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Some of thew comments there are truly asinine.
> 
> That person needs to find God or get a life.


Ever surf some of the Star Trek sites?


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

tanstaafl said:


> Here's where someone has done a comparison between this episode and the pilot showing how Nikki was digitally inserted into the original footage.
> 
> http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/chroma-key-scenes.html


Damn, so they DIDN'T have a plan.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Nikki & Paulo aside, they've always said they want to have background players come to the foreground occasionally. That's what they did here, but realistically, how do you:

- hire someone in a non-speaking part to be mulling around the background of the pilot
- 3 years later, re-hire them with a speaking part for multiple episodes and flashbacks later

They had to do it this way. I think they did a hell of a job putting her into the scenes from the pilot!

<clack> <click> Not the one. not the one. <clack>

Greg


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

What happens if you find God? Suddenly you have less free time? How does that work? Does he make you get him coffee all the time? I don't get it.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

The line from Anonymous about the crash footage being "sacred" is hysterical. For all we know, the scenes below in the pilot were shot FROM Nikki's perspective, or just in front of her, and this episode just "backed the camera up" a little bit so we see her as well.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> What happens if you find God? Suddenly you have less free time? How does that work? Does he make you get him coffee all the time? I don't get it.


I think it has less to do with free time than with gaining some perspective as to what you consider "sacred."


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

I re-watched the first few minutes last night. It reminded me of something I thought of briefly while watching the show Wed.

*Nikki * is introduced as *Corvette*, the pride of *St. Paul*.

Did anyone else put those three things together and think of a certain '80s "artist"?

Okay, so Prince is from Minneapolis, but they are the twin cities.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

gchance said:


> Nikki & Paulo aside, they've always said they want to have background players come to the foreground occasionally. That's what they did here, but realistically, how do you:
> 
> - hire someone in a non-speaking part to be mulling around the background of the pilot
> - 3 years later, re-hire them with a speaking part for multiple episodes and flashbacks later
> ...


I agree that this ep. was very well done. And I also appreciate that the writers were kind of winking at us in both obliquely acknowledging that these are add-on characters, and gratifying those of us who found them annoying by making them really dispicable people and then giving them a terrible end (I know some think they aren't dead; I think they are, although their story may continue to play a role).


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MickeS said:


> Plus, and I'm sure someone already noted this elsewhere, there's a date on that newspaper: September 24, 2004. So this episode took place December 13, 2004.
> EDIT: It actually says "Thursday, September 24, 2004" - although Thursday would have been September 23...
> 
> Not that I know if there's any significance to this, but I noticed that the Lostpedia has the timeline wrong (they list this latest episode as taking place December 11, 2004) if we go by this info. But maybe there is conflicting info earlier in the series?


The date is actually "Tuesday, September 14"? They crashed on the 22nd, so they couldn't have still beein in Sydney on the 24th.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> I re-watched the first few minutes last night. It reminded me of something I thought of briefly while watching the show Wed.
> 
> *Nikki * is introduced as *Corvette*, the pride of *St. Paul*.
> 
> Did anyone else put those three things together and think of a certain '80s "artist"?


No ... but now I am thinking that ...

I knew a girl named Nikki
I guess u could say she was a sex fiend
I met her in a hotel lobby
hmmm-hmm-hmmming with a magazine
...


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> I think it has less to do with free time than with gaining some perspective as to what you consider "sacred."


So it should have been an and then right? I mean getting a life doesn't make you consider different things sacred either. So it should be get a life AND get God??


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

wprager said:


> The date is actually "Tuesday, September 14"? They crashed on the 22nd, so they couldn't have still beein in Sydney on the 24th.


Nope, it says "Thursday, September 24 2004".

And you're right - it doesn't fit with the date of the crash.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> So it should have been an and then right? I mean getting a life doesn't make you consider different things sacred either. So it should be get a life AND get God??


No, I meant "or". If you consider the first scenes of Lost sacred, you have no life.


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

After thirteen pages of comments, I don't believe that anyone has thought that it was definitely the wrong move for Nikki to run TO the camp. She should have run AWAY FROM the camp. I definitely would have taken a lot longer for anyone to notice that she and Paulo were missing. They would have been delayed in looking for them, and the venom would have much more likely worn off before the burial. Running toward the camp accomplishes nothing but getting you buried alive. Why run to the camp? To get help? What can anyone do to help? All they can do is wait. Unless she was afraid of being eaten by a polar bear or boar, there is no advantage to run anywhere. She should have just sat down and let it run its course. Stay put!


----------



## numb and number (Mar 7, 2004)

It's always been a problem what to do with repeating extras in a TV series. 

I remember that stupid blonde kid walking around the WJM newsroom. Weird. They gave him a couple lines near the end of the series, that was even weirder.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MickeS said:


> Nope, it says "Thursday, September 24 2004".
> 
> And you're right - it doesn't fit with the date of the crash.


Please post a definitive screen cap. The best I saw was not perfectly legible, and looked like it could be either Tuesday or Thursday.

I agree that it is less likely to mistake a 1 for a 2 than "Tues" for "Thurs", but even there it is still possible. Given that September 14 was a Tuesday (and the 24th was not a Thursday), and also that the 24th was after the crash, it is logical to surmise that that was the date shown.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Church AV Guy said:


> After thirteen pages of comments, I don't believe that anyone has thought that it was definitely the wrong move for Nikki to run TO the camp. She should have run AWAY FROM the camp.....


I'm not so sure - if I'm in the middle of the jungle, poisonous spiders all around me, I think I'd want to run to the shoreline and "civilization" ASAP. It wound up being the wrong call for her, but I'm sure she wasn't anticipating being buried alive when she made it. I know I wouldn't want to be paralyzed for hours, alone, in the middle of a jungle populated by all sorts of mean fauna, smokey, and The Others.

On a completely separate note: it just now occurred to me how this episode reminded me of _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead_, by Tom Stoppard. Anyone else?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

wprager said:


> Please post a definitive screen cap. The best I saw was not perfectly legible, and looked like it could be either Tuesday or Thursday.
> 
> I agree that it is less likely to mistake a 1 for a 2 than "Tues" for "Thurs", but even there it is still possible. Given that September 14 was a Tuesday (and the 24th was not a Thursday), and also that the 24th was after the crash, it is logical to surmise that that was the date shown.


I did not look at a screen cap. I looked at my dvr recording. It clearly says Thursday September 24.

But I found this:










It's not as clear as on a 42" screen though.  But the letter after the initial "T" is clearly a "h" (same height as the T), and the "24" date is readable.

Either way - the 24th is after the crash date as given before, and it's not a thursday... so it's probably just a mistake. Although an odd one.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Setting aside the fact that Sept. 24, 2004 was a Friday and not a Thursday, couldn't we attribute this difference to the International Date Line? If the plane crashed on Wednesday, Sept. 22, 2004 according to the US calendar (since that's the day the pilot episode aired), didn't the plane actually leave Sydney on the morning of Thursday, Sept. 23? They were reading the paper at the airport on the morning they left, so that would make sense (except for the fact that it appears to say 24 and not 23, but it's not really that clear, so I'll give it a pass).


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Yeah let's see... either I can run to somewhere safe and hope they don't bury me when I tell them I'm paralyzed, or I can run into the middle of the jungle with boars, polar bears, smoke monsters, and people with guns who like killing, where I will then be perfectly still and unable to do anything for 8 hours. Tough call.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> *Nikki * is introduced as *Corvette*, the pride of *St. Paul*.


Nice catch.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I did not look at a screen cap. I looked at my dvr recording. It clearly says Thursday September 24.
> 
> But I found this:
> 
> ...


Well, if we're comparing screen size, then I just checked on my 57" screen and, sadly, we're nowhere closer to "definitive". I went frame by frame and the "appearance" changes wildly -- at one point I swear that instead of Tuesday or Thursday it looked more like Sydney (I swear, I'm not making this up). Also, I could not find any frame that showed the 2004 part as anything resembling 2004.

I have resigned myself to thinking that this was not meant to really "be spotted" and, in that case, it could be a mistake in so many ways.

Now, can anyone explain the headline to me: "Famed tubed tycoon ..."


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

wprager said:


> Well, if we're comparing screen size, then I just checked on my 57" screen and, sadly, we're nowhere closer to "definitive". I went frame by frame and the "appearance" changes wildly -- at one point I swear that instead of Tuesday or Thursday it looked more like Sydney (I swear, I'm not making this up). Also, I could not find any frame that showed the 2004 part as anything resembling 2004.
> 
> I have resigned myself to thinking that this was not meant to really "be spotted" and, in that case, it could be a mistake in so many ways.
> 
> Now, can anyone explain the headline to me: "Famed tubed tycoon ..."


There is one frame, right before it shows the entire date, where the word Thursday is readable and in focus. Skip forward a few frames, and you'll see "Thursday, September 24" in focus and readable too. After that, the camera starts panning down/zooming out more, and that's when the blurrier screen shot above is taken, because that's where the entire date is showing.

I agree that this is probably a mistake.

The headline would make more sense if it said "Famed tube tycoon..." instead of tubed.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MickeS said:


> The headline would make more sense if it said "Famed tube tycoon..." instead of tubed.


Didn't even think of it. Yep, that would make a lot more sense. Did they order the fake paper over the phone?


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Hunter Green said:


> mqpickles said:
> 
> 
> > *Nikki* is introduced as *Corvette*, the pride of *St. Paul*.
> ...


Not to mention that Paulo hid the *diamonds* in the *pearl* hatch...

or that, in a previous episode, *the sky was all purple*.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Not to mention that Paulo hid the *diamonds* in the *pearl* hatch...
> 
> or that, in a previous episode, *the sky was all purple*.


Prince is Jacob!!!


----------



## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

hefe said:


> Prince is Jacob!!!


No, Jacob is the artist formely known as Prince..lol.

THAT'S what the "?" was on the blast door map!! It wasn't a "?" it was that funky Prince symbol! Were those really doves in "Par Avion"?


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

danterner said:


> On a completely separate note: it just now occurred to me how this episode reminded me of _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead_, by Tom Stoppard. Anyone else?


I don't remember anyone flipping coins.


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

...so we still do not know who is "him".


----------



## bullitt (Feb 13, 2002)

ElJay said:


> It was interesting as a "stand alone" episode and nice to see a few old characters. But it didn't seem to move the overall plot forward at all. First we wasted time with Libby and Ana-Lucia (I actually had to look up Ana-Lucia because I had forgotten the character's name because she was _so_ important), then Eko, now these two... So much filler, so much time wasted, so much contempt for the writers.


I gave up on this show last season, unfortunately my wife makes me keep the season pass. The show never moves forward, they continue to add new characters that just waste episodes and they have this "Synopsis" format down pat till it's become an art form. Sorry, but I know no more about the fate of this downed aircrafts passengers than I did 3 years ago.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bullitt said:


> I gave up on this show last season, unfortunately my wife makes me keep the season pass. The show never moves forward, they continue to add new characters that just waste episodes and they have this "Synopsis" format down pat till it's become an art form. Sorry, but I know no more about the fate of this downed aircrafts passengers than I did 3 years ago.


But you know more about the characters.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Wednesday already.. seven more hours (for those of us not in Canada).


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

bullitt said:


> I gave up on this show last season ...
> <snip>
> ... Sorry, but I know no more about the fate of this downed aircrafts passengers than I did 3 years ago.


So lemme get this straight -- you gave up watching the show last season (Season 2), and as a result you don't know any more about the story than you did during Season 1?
Go figure.

I gave up reading a book part way through, and as a result, I too didn't learn how that story progressed as well. I should find a forum on the web where fans of the book like to talk about it, and I should let them know that the book sucked _because I stopped reading it._

 <-- don't forget the smiley dude


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

bullitt said:


> I gave up on this show last season, unfortunately my wife makes me keep the season pass. The show never moves forward, they continue to add new characters that just waste episodes and they have this "Synopsis" format down pat till it's become an art form. Sorry, but I know no more about the fate of this downed aircrafts passengers than I did 3 years ago.


Well, you know about the fates of Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby, Eko, the girl that Boone tried to save from drowning, Steve (or was it Scott?), Artz, and the Marshal.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Monster Tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Okay, so I'm catching up and only 15 minutes in and haven't read this thread yet, but wow! What a blast from the past! This episode is awesome so far!

Plus Kiely Sanchez reminds me of an ex.


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