# Game of Thrones - "The Prince of Winterfell" - S02E08 5/20/12



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

As usual, so much happened this episode, I know I've already forgotten some of it! Why does the hour go so damn fast??

Robb.... saw that coming a mile away. I knew they'd get it on. But Cat letting Jaimie go was STUPID. WTF was she thinking?? How did she think Robb would be okay with that? Ugh.

Tyrion's face when he saw Ros instead of Shae was masterclass acting. God I love Dinklage so much I can't even take it. So I assume Ros realized she was some kind of replacement for who Cersei was really after. That's some dedication right there for her to keep her trap shut. I don't fully understand why she would do that for him. And I guess he and Varys have reached some kind of friendship? I wanted to wipe that smile off Cercei's face. Great acting on Tyrion's part to her to sell the fact that Ros was his "whore".

Oh Jon Snow... I'm really fearful for him at this point. I don't know what else to say. I hope they don't go the route of the wildling chick falling for him. 

Arya and Gendry get out of Harrenhal! Dude is really creepy though. I cannot ever remember his name without looking it up.. it's too odd. You know who I mean. His way of speaking is odd even for this show/time. He was freaked when she named him though, liked that. Wasn't surprised though, she's a smart smart girl. 

So Stannis names Davos as his hand. I kinda thought that was a given. Apparently not to Davos. Is there anyone more loyal to Stannis than him??

Lastly, Dany Dany. She's a bit full of herself. I hope she isn't leading Jorah to his death here. I will be rightly pissed if he dies because she's so convinced of her own uber specialness and demands they go to the house of the undead. 

Is it next Sunday yet?? Only 2 episodes remain this season. That is so depressing!!!!


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## Demandred (Mar 6, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> Is it next Sunday yet?? Only 2 episodes remain this season. That is so depressing!!!!


+1

Starting to think I will need to read the books while we wait for next season.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

It was one of the more unsatisfying episodes so far.

I (mostly) didn't believe for a moment the ********** were Bran and his brother. especially with no Hodor, too.

Bran/Hodor are Master/Blaster. Maybe Tyrion can mount his Sellsword.

I had remembered but Dany pointed it out. She is a dragon. All they have to do is burn down the House of the Undying so they will ber the House of Dying by Burning except for Dany and her dragons.

I would have been happier if they had cut off Lord Jamie's jewels. Maybe Brienne still has a mission on how he's supposed to be delivered.

"Yeah, Jeffy, THAT will scare them."


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> But Cat letting Jaimie go was STUPID. WTF was she thinking??


She's a mother who has lost her husband, her daughters and two of her sons. Her sister is crazy. Her ancestral home doesn't welcome her and her husbands home has fallen to Theon Greyjoy of all people. Her entire world is falling apart. She believes that sending Jamie back to the Lannisters to trade for her daughters is the only way she's ever going to see them again. Right or wrong, she believes it with every fiber of her being. And she believed that Jamie would not survive the night with men who wanted to kill him, and that news of his death would be followed with news of Sansa and Aryas death as well.

What would you do if you believed that?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Ereth said:


> She's a mother who has lost her husband, her daughters and two of her sons. Her sister is crazy. Her ancestral home doesn't welcome her and her husbands home has fallen to Theon Greyjoy of all people. Her entire world is falling apart. She believes that sending Jamie back to the Lannisters to trade for her daughters is the only way she's ever going to see them again. Right or wrong, she believes it with every fiber of her being. And she believed that Jamie would not survive the night with men who wanted to kill him, and that news of his death would be followed with news of Sansa and Aryas death as well.
> 
> What would you do if you believed that?


I wouldn't have sent him back without confirmation from Kings Landing of two things. 
1. My daughters were still alive
2. They were willing to trade them
And I certainly would not have sent just one person back with him hoping the "kings slayer" doesn't get the best of that person along the way. Because if anything at all goes wrong, her or Robb have nothing to bargain with.

I know you've read the books so you have more insight on such things but this is how I see it strictly from a show viewers POV.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The problem is it would take weeks to get that information, and Robb's men wanted Jaime dead NOW. She figured, given the mood in camp, that she had hours to save Jaime's life (and thus hopefully save her daughters' lives), and under the circumstances I'd say she acted rashly but not insanely.

I loved the romantic rowboat scene, with the pretty one lounging in the prow of the boat and the big burly one rowing them down the river...


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The problem is it would take weeks to get that information, and Robb's men wanted Jaime dead NOW. She figured, given the mood in camp, that she had hours to save Jaime's life (and thus hopefully save her daughters' lives), and under the circumstances I'd say she acted rashly but not insanely.


So what you're saying is she doesn't feel she can control Robb's men. I wonder if Robb would have those same concerns if he had been there instead.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> So what you're saying is she doesn't feel she can control Robb's men. I wonder if Robb would have those same concerns if he had been there instead.


That's a good question. So far, he's been playing the Romantic Young King card quite skillfully, but this had the potential to really blow up in his face...it's in the best interest of the kingdom to keep Jaime alive, so what happens when he has to weigh that against the insistent demands of his subjects to kill him? Would he even have had the chance to make that decision, and if his men killed Jaime behind his back, how would that affect his authority?

Ironically, Mom's rash actions spared him that dilemma, although of course caused another (what to do about Mom?).


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I agree with Rob. She was acting emotionally, not logically. Robb would have (and did) act differently.

In this regard, the book doesn't change anything, but because it allows inner dialog, and infinite time, you get more of Caitlyns thoughts (as well as everybody else. We have a much better idea of who Brienne of Tarth is by now in the books, for instance).

But to respond to the points specifically...

Littlefinger told her while at Renlys camp that both girls were alive and held by the Lannisters. WE know that Arya is not there, but Caitlyn does not. 

Highborn prisoners are traditionally kept specifically TO be traded for highborn prisoners that the other side captures. It's the entire world that Caitlyn has grown up with. The peasants are killed, the highborn are captured and traded back to their homes. Caitlyn trusts in the traditions of the highborn (remember her insistence upon "bread and salt" at the Twins?). They are the foundation of her world, and while they are broken upon occasion (the mad king comes to mind), they are so fundamental that she doesn't question them. 

As for feeling she can control Robbs men... no, she doesn't, especially given the mood at the time. She barely stopped them from killing Jamie outright. She didn't think she would succeed a second time. Were the Kingslayer to have an "accident" in the night and be found dead in the morning, the girls would be lost to her (she believes) and what could Robb do about it? He might be angry, but the deed would be done.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

I too thought this was one of the less exciting episodes.

I'm confused about what's going on with Jon Snow and the others. I thought the leader (not sure of his name...was it Crow?) said everyone else was killed. Then later we see everyone else just fine. So what's going on? Why did he lie to Jon about everyone being dead?

The Ros scene was funny. I had recognized her, but it didn't actually click at the moment that she wasn't Tyrion's girl. Then he gets back to his room and I was like "wait, what just happened"


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Quorin Halfhand. The small splinter group that he and Jon Snow went off with, everyone was killed.

The other people you saw were the main force that Lord Commander Mormont kept with him.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Quorin Halfhand. The small splinter group that he and Jon Snow went off with, everyone was killed.
> 
> The other people you saw were the main force that Lord Commander Mormont kept with him.


Oh yeah, thanks. I forgot that the group had split up to take out the lookouts.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I loved this exchange between Tyrion and Varys:

"You're an intelligent man, and I'd like to think I am"
"Too bad we can't talk as honest, intelligent men"

 :up:


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> As usual, so much happened this episode, I know I've already forgotten some of it! Why does the hour go so damn fast??
> 
> Robb.... saw that coming a mile away. I knew they'd get it on. But Cat letting Jaimie go was STUPID. WTF was she thinking?? How did she think Robb would be okay with that? Ugh.


She knew he wouldn't be okay with it, that's why she did it.



> Tyrion's face when he saw Ros instead of Shae was masterclass acting. God I love Dinklage so much I can't even take it. So I assume Ros realized she was some kind of replacement for who Cersei was really after. That's some dedication right there for her to keep her trap shut. I don't fully understand why she would do that for him. And I guess he and Varys have reached some kind of friendship? I wanted to wipe that smile off Cercei's face. Great acting on Tyrion's part to her to sell the fact that Ros was his "whore".


His acting through that whole scene was amazing, even before Roz came out. His look of "how the f*ck do you know?" was masterful. Loved it.



> Arya and Gendry get out of Harrenhal! Dude is really creepy though. I cannot ever remember his name without looking it up.. it's too odd. You know who I mean. His way of speaking is odd even for this show/time. He was freaked when she named him though, liked that. Wasn't surprised though, she's a smart smart girl.


His name is Jaqen H'agar. I know, hard to remember unless you've read it.  Anyway, he's not from Westeros which is why he speaks so strangely.


> So Stannis names Davos as his hand. I kinda thought that was a given. Apparently not to Davos. Is there anyone more loyal to Stannis than him??


Nope! 



> Lastly, Dany Dany. She's a bit full of herself. I hope she isn't leading Jorah to his death here. I will be rightly pissed if he dies because she's so convinced of her own uber specialness and demands they go to the house of the undead.


Who is she, or what is she if she doesn't have her dragons?



> Is it next Sunday yet?? Only 2 episodes remain this season. That is so
> depressing!!!!


Yeah that sucks. While I agree that this episode didn't have anything exciting really happen, there was a lot of good story telling going on. I think (hope) the next two episodes are going to be chock-full of craziness.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> She's a mother who has lost her husband, her daughters and two of her sons. Her sister is crazy. Her ancestral home doesn't welcome her and her husbands home has fallen to Theon Greyjoy of all people. Her entire world is falling apart. She believes that sending Jamie back to the Lannisters to trade for her daughters is the only way she's ever going to see them again. Right or wrong, she believes it with every fiber of her being. And she believed that Jamie would not survive the night with men who wanted to kill him, and that news of his death would be followed with news of Sansa and Aryas death as well.
> 
> What would you do if you believed that?


I would know just shipping him back is not the way to go about it. Why does she think her daughters will be released.

I agree with your explanation of her decision making but just letting her protector take him down there does not seem like a way to get her daughters free. Especially since she doesn't even know their real status.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I don't know all these kings moms overstepping their bounds is messing things up.  I guess the only people who can show up kings are their mommies.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

marksman said:


> I don't know all these kings moms overstepping their bounds is messing things up.  I guess the only people who can show up kings are their mommies.


Though, occasionally, uncles are allowed to slap kings.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

for once somebody got the best of Tyrion in the "line of the show" category

Tyrion: Imagine Stannis' terror
Varys: I am trying


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tiassa said:


> for once somebody got the best of Tyrion in the "line of the show" category
> 
> Tyrion: Imagine Stannis' terror
> Varys: I am trying


They do make a great couple pair. It's fun watching them try to unpack each other's comments. And when they talk, they both have this "I'm pretty sure I'm smarter than you, but I'm not yet entirely convinced" thing going on.


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## hbtaylor (Dec 20, 2001)

tiassa said:


> for once somebody got the best of Tyrion in the "line of the show" category
> 
> Tyrion: Imagine Stannis' terror
> Varys: I am trying


It was good. I'm not sure that was the best. The exchange with Bronn when he said they rounded up all the known thieves, and now just have to worry about the unknown thieves made me laugh/rewind/rewatch! Basically, "You rounded them up for questioning?", followed by Bronn's delivery of "No" was priceless.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

What was with the exchange between Theon and his sister? Was she mad he took Winterfell and was upstaging her? Obviously what she said about their dad being mad about it can't be right, he tried to take Winterfell 20 years ago! Obviously he wants to possess it no matter how far it is from the sea.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mwhip said:


> What was with the exchange between Theon and his sister? Was she mad he took Winterfell and was upstaging her? Obviously what she said about their dad being mad about it can't be right, he tried to take Winterfell 20 years ago! Obviously he wants to possess it no matter how far it is from the sea.


He didn't try to take Winterfell, he rebelled against King Robert (he wanted to be King of the Isles or some such). Ned was sent to put down the rebellion, and Theon was given to Ned as ward/hostage as part of the peace settlement.

Theon is trying to please Daddy, but he's wandered so far from his roots he's walking his own path without even realizing it. His sister was trying to talk him back, but he is too far gone.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

mwhip said:


> Obviously he wants to possess it no matter how far it is from the sea.


Not possess, but destroy. He would destroy Winterfell and leave back to the sea.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay sorry for what's about to be a multiquote from hell. I got busy at work and couldn't reply until now. I will snip as much as possible.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> it's in the best interest of the kingdom to keep Jaime alive, so what happens when he has to weigh that against the insistent demands of his subjects to kill him? Would he even have had the chance to make that decision, and if his men killed Jaime behind his back, how would that affect his authority?


Well considering these men made him King of the North, I'd assume he would have a much better chance of controlling them than mom. At least I would hope. He's a good man, a fair King and he's winning his young butt off at this war game.



Ereth said:


> In this regard, the book doesn't change anything, but because it allows inner dialog, and infinite time, you get more of Caitlyns thoughts (as well as everybody else.


And this is why I made the book comment in my post. I realize that having not read them, I don't have as much background and thought process that you all have so I'm never sure if what I'm saying is in character or if I've misinterpreted something.



Ereth said:


> Littlefinger told her while at Renlys camp that both girls were alive and held by the Lannisters. WE know that Arya is not there, but Caitlyn does not.


I had forgotten that... but then again, Cat isn't trusting his word on anything, is she?



LordKronos said:


> I too thought this was one of the less exciting episodes.<snip>
> I'm confused about what's going on with Jon Snow and the others. <snip>
> Then he gets back to his room and I was like "wait, what just happened"


So maybe before you say it wasn't an exciting episode, you should figure out what you've just watched, no? 



audioscience said:


> His acting through that whole scene was amazing, even before Roz came out. His look of "how the f*ck do you know?" was masterful. Loved it.


First let me tell you how awesome I think you are for always replying to my posts with such detail without spoiling anything. :up:
And yes, he rocks every scene he's in, doesn't he? The Rolling Stones cover title couldn't be more accurate - "The Triumph of Peter Dinklage". I would have never known he was this fantastic of an actor until someone gave him the shot to do so. I seriously am in awe of him week after week.



audioscience said:


> His name is Jaqen H'agar. I know, hard to remember unless you've read it.  Anyway, he's not from Westeros which is why he speaks so strangely.


I hear it and I read it every week and yet: gun to my head, I still could not say it correctly right now. Do we know where he's from? (non book readers I mean.... as I don't recall they've given us much info on him yet)



audioscience said:


> Yeah that sucks. While I agree that this episode didn't have anything exciting really happen, there was a lot of good story telling going on. I think (hope) the next two episodes are going to be chock-full of craziness.


I disagree that it wasn't exciting. To me, the worst episode of this show is like saying "I rode the slowest roller coaster at the park".



marksman said:


> Why does she think her daughters will be released. I agree with your explanation of her decision making but just letting her protector take him down there does not seem like a way to get her daughters free.


This! It's what I was trying to say. Something could go wrong along the way, they could be ambushed by Lannister army on the way or they could just spear Brienne in the neck the second she crosses the castle walls with him to bargain. I just can't see how this is anyone's best option. I would have just held him in my tent with Brienne standing guard over him all night until Robb returned to get his men in check.

Oh and for fear of bringing up the whole pirating argument (please don't) I just have to point out how crazy this is!
Game of Thrones S02E08 720p HDTV x264-IMMERSE [eztv]
Uploaded Today 05:55
Seeders: 31001
Leechers: 26264


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> I hear it and I read it every week and yet: gun to my head, I still could not say it correctly right now. Do we know where he's from? (non book readers I mean.... as I don't recall they've given us much info on him yet)


Not yet.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Oh and for fear of bringing up the whole pirating argument (please don't) I just have to point out how crazy this is!
> 
> Game of Thrones S02E08 720p HDTV x264-IMMERSE [eztv]
> Uploaded Today 05:55
> ...


http://torrentfreak.com/whos-pirating-game-of-thrones-and-why-120520/



> With over 3 million downloads per episode, the HBO hit series Game of Thrones is without doubt the most pirated TV-show of the season. Data gathered by TorrentFreak shows that most of the pirates come from Australia, while London tops the list of pirate cities. But why have these people turned to BitTorrent?


They don't factor in usenet along with bittorrent.


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## Rickvz (Sep 5, 2000)

" I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid." -- Tyrion to Cersei

The delivery of this short passage (pretty much straight from the original) gave me chills.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Also cool that Tyrion was smart enough not to give away any info on Shae when Cercei said she had her. 

Brienne was a good person to send Jamie with because she is totally honorable. Probably the only person in Westeros who is since Ned lost his head.  She will die rather than fail to get him there, and when she gets there and they offer her a bribe instead of Sansa and Arya she's going to hold a knife to Jamie's throat and say no way. (no, I'm just speculating, not talking about anything from the books.)

Would it be a spoiler to say that when I read the books, I thought sure Bran and Rickon were dead, and thought so for what seemed like a very long time? You guys got off easy as they made it a little more obvious and brought them back way sooner.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Why are Rob Snow and his merry band of crows attacking the snow people? I know why everybody is waging war against everybody else but I must have snoozed during that explanation.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

The wildlings are massing in huge numbers just north of the wall. I think they're the ones planning an attack. (it's John Snow) Remember, winter is coming, and nobody wants to be too far north then.


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## magaggie (Apr 9, 2002)

Demandred said:


> Starting to think I will need to read the books while we wait for next season.


I'm sorry, you're going to do what? If you guys only knew how hard it was to get him to read something I like, you'd be snorting like I am


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

can we please....not ruin this thread like the last one with all the pirate talk? thanks


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yarr!


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> And this is why I made the book comment in my post. I realize that having not read them, I don't have as much background and thought process that you all have so I'm never sure if what I'm saying is in character or if I've misinterpreted something.


If you are saying that my (imperfect) knowledge of the books means that I should not have responded, then I apologize. I thought I was being helpful, no more. I enjoy your posts and look forward to this thread, in particular, because I love these books and this show and literally nobody I know in real life has read them or watches the show. I don't get to talk about it anywhere else.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yarr!


/thunder


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

pmyers said:


> can we please....not ruin this thread like the last one with all the pirate talk? thanks


What a landlubber.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Ereth said:


> If you are saying that my (imperfect) knowledge of the books means that I should not have responded, then I apologize. I thought I was being helpful, no more. I enjoy your posts and look forward to this thread, in particular, because I love these books and this show and literally nobody I know in real life has read them or watches the show. I don't get to talk about it anywhere else.


LOL Damn interwebs! No! I was basically saying the exact opposite! You were being helpful. I was just saying I commented on the fact that I know you've read the books and I haven't so I'm sure you have further knowledge on characters at this point than I do so motives that I don't see you might. That's all.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Watching again so I have a few thoughts to add.

Yara actually seems to give a crap about Theon staying in Winterfell and dying. I wouldn't have thought that. 

Jon Snow is losing ground as my favorite character. He's just such an idiot. "they died because of me".. "see that it wasn't for nothing" .... well that pretty much seals the fact that he's going to do something else stupid.  Is it asking for spoilers if I say I'm a bit confused on the cloak/dragon glass the others found in the snow? Or maybe at this point we shouldn't fully get that? 

Robb on the other hand is gaining tons of ground (despite him falling for Talisa and even that I'll give him a pass on since I don't dislike her). He's smart, he's honorable. Daddy Ned would be so proud of him. And because he's such a good guy I am now fearful he won't make it out of this show alive. I hope I'm wrong. He was also a bit scary when talking to Cat saying "Jaimie Lannister has played you for a fool. You've weakened our position. You brought discord into our camp. And you did it all behind my back" with that intense stare right into her eyes. It was subtle but effective for me. Also like his "that's not the kind of King I want to be" to Talisa. Is it weird that as soon as they started getting naked, I immediately thought how much I'd kill for her ass? 

As for Jaqen, I had to look the actor up. Kudos. He's really attractive in real life. He's so creepy on this show I haven't seen that at all. He totally owns this character. I'm freaked out by him but also more intrigued to see just WTF he is all about. I did have to laugh at "a girl gives a man his own name?" and when he says "a girl lacks honor" she just shrugs like yeah so what? 

Let me make sure I get what Qhorin was meaning to Jon. He wants him to get their trust and so to do that means making nice with the girl, right? But I don't see how he thinks one person on the inside is going to do much. It's not like they can call each other secretly and give away info. 

Oh and HA! I forgot my favorite part of the episode!
Cercei: Do you know why Varys is so dangerous?
Tyrion: Because he has spys everywhere?
Cercei: Because he doesn't have a ****
Tyrion: (almost whispering) Neither do you
Cercei: Perhaps I'm dangerous too. You, on the other hand, are as big a fool as every other man. That little worm between your legs does half your thinking.
Tyrion: It's not that little 
HA! 
Then she brings out the 1,2,3 on him. *****!
Wait. Is it possible Ros is clueless as to what is going on? Maybe she doesn't know about Shae either.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> As for Jaqen, I had to look the actor up. Kudos. He's really attractive in real life. He's so creepy on this show I haven't seen that at all. He totally owns this character. I'm freaked out by him but also more intrigued to see just WTF he is all about. I did have to laugh at "a girl gives a man his own name?" and when he says "a girl lacks honor" she just shrugs like yeah so what?


To me it seemed more like, "Uh, why are you even bothering to MENTION that?!?"


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If Tyrion really loved Roz, he surely wouldn't have given her to Joffrey. Maybe Cercei doesn't know about that--who the 2 girls were. 

It was nice of Yigritte to save John's life. It sounded like that was the last time, tho. It would be a good time for Ghost to show up--you wouldn't want to kill the only guy in camp who can control the direwolf.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> > I too thought this was one of the less exciting episodes.<snip>
> > I'm confused about what's going on with Jon Snow and the others. <snip>
> > Then he gets back to his room and I was like "wait, what just happened"
> 
> ...


I do have a DVR, so I figured out the Tyrion part 10 seconds later. For the Jon part, it really didn't make much difference.

I stand by what I said, this wasn't a very exciting episode. Not a whole ton happened. The Stannis scene didn't add much. We learned a little of Stannis' and Davos' background, but most of it I thought we already had the gist of (either directly or inferred)***. That Davos would be the Hand was no shock. Likewise Joffrey's scene didn't add much. We already know he's stupid, so learning that he's oblivious to the threat Stannis poses, and that he wants to fight to the north when his enemy is coming from the south isn't the least surprising. Those 2 scenes really seemed like more of a "I know you haven't seen these guys in a few episodes, but don't forget about them".

In the Robb scene, we learn a bit about the girls backstory, but the rest was stuff we already knew (about Ned, and that Robb doesn't want to marry the bridge girl). Then a love scene.

The stuff north of the wall isn't really getting that exciting. We hardly saw much of anything. A little mystery in what the arrowheads are (something once used against white walkers perhaps), but thats about it. Hardly saw any interaction with Mance's guys, so not much revealing (though that one guys mask and outfit was kind of cool).

The Jamie scene was alright, but just another case of Jamie try to antagonize someone into a fight.

The Tyrion/Bronn/Verys scene was quite good, as was the Tyrion/Cersie scene (though the best part only lasted a few seconds unless you mixed up the characters like I did, in which case it lasted about 20 seconds).

Then the final scene seemed like it was supposed to be some big reveal, except we already pretty much figured out what was going on, though the returning to Winterfell was perhaps a bit of a surprise (though by that point I had been half lulled into a coma)

All together it was a slow episode. Individual scenes were good, but nothing even close to what I would consider exciting. The scenes were like good supporting actors without a good lead actor to make them really interesting.

*** Regarding the Stannis/Davos scene, I did have one question about it. If I recall correctly, Stannis cut off Davos' fingers because he was smuggling the onions. But in this episode, it sounds like Davos' smuggling was a great help to Stannis, and that Stannis' wife was on the brink of starvation. Am I mistaken on one point or the other? Or did Davos continue smuggling after he lost his fingers, and Stannis was thankful for it later? As it is, it seems like "thank you very much, I'm eternally grateful....now let me punish you"


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> *** Regarding the Stannis/Davos scene, I did have one question about it. If I recall correctly, Stannis cut off Davos' fingers because he was smuggling the onions. But in this episode, it sounds like Davos' smuggling was a great help to Stannis, and that Stannis' wife was on the brink of starvation. Am I mistaken on one point or the other? Or did Davos continue smuggling after he lost his fingers, and Stannis was thankful for it later? As it is, it seems like "thank you very much, I'm eternally grateful....now let me punish you"


Stannis discussed that earlier in the show. "The good does not outweigh the bad". He raised up Davos to a Lord for bringing the supplies that allowed them to survive the siege. At the same time, he cut off the last digits of all the fingers on one hand to punish him for all his years of smuggling, which violates the law.

Stannis is a very hard man. If you violate the law, you must be punished, even if you did so for very good reasons.

Renly was right when he said nobody would want Stannis as their king.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> *** Regarding the Stannis/Davos scene, I did have one question about it. If I recall correctly, Stannis cut off Davos' fingers because he was smuggling the onions. But in this episode, it sounds like Davos' smuggling was a great help to Stannis, and that Stannis' wife was on the brink of starvation. Am I mistaken on one point or the other? Or did Davos continue smuggling after he lost his fingers, and Stannis was thankful for it later? As it is, it seems like "thank you very much, I'm eternally grateful....now let me punish you"


Stannis rewarded Davos for saving his @$$ by giving him a job, and punished him for smuggling by cutting off his fingers.

In case you haven't noticed, Stannis is kind of a dick.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Stannis discussed that earlier in the show. "The good does not outweigh the bad"


Yeah, that does ring a bell. Thanks. So I guess ""thank you very much, I'm eternally grateful....now let me punish you" was an accurate assessment.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> (though by that point I had been half lulled into a coma)


I like how you left off my  from the quoted text so it looks like I was just being a *****. I was teasing you. But now that I know the above, I won't bother reading your posts because we are clearly not seeing the same show!!


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Some storytelling but I'll agree on the rather unexciting episode.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I like how you left off my  from the quoted text so it looks like I was just being a *****.


You mean you weren't? 

No, serious, yeah I did realize that, and sorry for not including it. However, when you reply on this forum it doesn't include nested quotes. So I wanted to include the part of my post that you quoted/snipped, so I just copied and pasted from your post to my reply. Unfortunately, when you do that, emoticons get lost in the copy/paste.



> But now that I know the above, I won't bother reading your posts because we are clearly not seeing the same show!


Again, I know you are joking, but what parts did you find to be most *exciting*? I didn't really feel that anything major happened. It was all setting things in place, though truthfully most of those pieces were already in place (or were could see mostly where they were about to be placed) last episode or prior.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> Again, I know you are joking, but what parts did you find to be most *exciting*? I didn't really feel that anything major happened. It was all setting things in place, though truthfully most of those pieces were already in place (or were could see mostly where they were about to be placed) last episode or prior.


Most exciting? No. Still amazing, fantastic episode? Yes. I cannot get enough of this show. Even though there wasn't much "exciting" happening, we got quite a bit of information and setup for the massive battle that's about to happen. I thought the episode went just as fast as any.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Is it weird that as soon as they started getting naked, I immediately thought how much I'd kill for her ass?


Not weird at all. In fact, I'll wager almost everyone watching the show had the same thought! 

My thinking on the dragon glass (?) they found is that it may be a weapon against dragons. I do like LordKronos' idea that it might be a weapon against white walkers.

I'm very glad we finally got the back story on the Onion knight (he brought potatoes as well, damn it!)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I'm very glad we finally got the back story on the Onion knight (he brought potatoes as well, damn it!)


♫ You say potato ♪
♬ I say onion ♫
♪ Let's call the whole thing off! ♩


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ♫ You say potato ♪
> ♬ I say onion ♫
> ♪ Let's call the whole thing off! ♩




it is curious why he smuggled onions. Lots of much better food, you would think.

Oh, and about Roz: I assume she tried to tell them many times that they got the wrong whore. I doubt it worked! Now, at least, she has a Lannister in her debt.

Jon Snow: yes, he is stupid, but he's learning and gaining experience very quickly.

Robb: he is everything his father was; only much smarter and more cunning. I do wonder about pre-marital sex in Westeros. I assumed it was a no-no for ladies, but I may be bringing my own baggage to the table here.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Stannis discussed that earlier in the show. "The good does not outweigh the bad". He raised up Davos to a Lord for bringing the supplies that allowed them to survive the siege. At the same time, he cut off the last digits of all the fingers on one hand to punish him for all his years of smuggling, which violates the law.
> 
> Stannis is a very hard man. If you violate the law, you must be punished, even if you did so for very good reasons.


OK, thinking a bit more about this, what law was it that Davos was violating? If I understand correctly, this all took place during the Siege of Storm's End, and this was while Robert was rebelling against the mad king. Stannis was helping Robert in his rebellion. So was this one of the laws under Targaryian rule that Davos was violating, because if so, it seems like Stannis was just as guilty of violating the law, so what was his punishment?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> it is curious why he smuggled onions. Lots of much better food, you would think.


I suspect it's not that he just smuggled onions, but rather that of all the things he smuggled, onions made for the most insulting epithet the "real" nobles could come up with. "The Steak Knight" just doesn't have the right level of sneer to it!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I do wonder about pre-marital sex in Westeros. I assumed it was a no-no for ladies, but I may be bringing my own baggage to the table here.


If you are talking about Robb's medic girl (sorry, don't remember her name), then technically isn't she not from Westeros?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

In the scene between Jorah and Dany, she mentions that the dragons are the only children she will ever have. Now I'm trying to remember, was it part of the witch doctor's curse that she'd be sterile, or was she just being dramatic about it?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> In the scene between Jorah and Dany, she mentions that the dragons are the only children she will ever have. Now I'm trying to remember, was it part of the witch doctor's curse that she'd be sterile, or was she just being dramatic about it?


The former.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

question about timing: when Theon first took Winterfell, IIRC, this Lord told Robb that his bastard can gather a couple of hundred men and be at Winterfell "in a couple of days".

Now, he tells Robb that his bastard is a few days away and discusses strategy and amnesty (interrupted by Talisa and her fine ass).

Am I getting the times/days wrong?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Oh, and about Roz: I assume she tried to tell them many times that they got the wrong whore. I doubt it worked!


Yes, and part of the reason it wouldn't have worked was explained in the episode. I didn't catch the significance of it in either of my times watchign the show, but I just watched the inside the episode video at hbo.com, and it was pointed out that Tyrion gave Ros a Lannister lion necklace and Cersie was using that as verification that she indeed found the right whore.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> If you are talking about Robb's medic girl (sorry, don't remember her name), then technically isn't she not from Westeros?


She's not from Westeros at all. She said she was from Volantis (I had to look that up, it's across the sea on Essos). She even said she wasn't familiar with the titles used in the seven kingdoms.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> Yes, and part of the reason it wouldn't have worked was explained in the episode. I didn't catch the significance of it in either of my times watchign the show, but I just watched the inside the episode video at hbo.com, and it was pointed out that Tyrion gave Ros a Lannister lion necklace and Cersie was using that as verification that she indeed found the right whore.


That was actually my first hint that maybe Cersei had gotten the wrong whore. Tyrion is too clever to make that sort of mistake. And had he done so I think the show would have made a point of letting us know he had done it. BTW did we get the scene where Tyrion gave Ros the Lannister lion?



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I suspect it's not that he just smuggled onions, but rather that of all the things he smuggled, onions made for the most insulting epithet the "real" nobles could come up with. "The Steak Knight" just doesn't have the right level of sneer to it!


Also onions aren't the most "high quality" food you could bring to a starving city. You'd want to bring in stuff with lots of nutritional value and as little bulk as possible like cured meat and grains. 


Anubys said:


> question about timing: when Theon first took Winterfell, IIRC, this Lord told Robb that his bastard can gather a couple of hundred men and be at Winterfell "in a couple of days".
> 
> Now, he tells Robb that his bastard is a few days away and discusses strategy and amnesty (interrupted by Talisa and her fine ass).
> 
> Am I getting the times/days wrong?


No I recall that as well. My theory is that the bastard's troops haven't moved, because Robb was waiting for more information from Winterfell, and when that didn't come he decided to act. The initial "my bastard is a few days away and can gather some troops was to say to Jon "You have people who can handle this for you, you can't abandon the fight against the Lannisters now"


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> She said she was from Volantis


Ah, yes. Volantis. Thanks. I kept thinking Valyria, but I knew it wasn't Valyria, though sounded something like that.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> OK, thinking a bit more about this, what law was it that Davos was violating? If I understand correctly, this all took place during the Siege of Storm's End, and this was while Robert was rebelling against the mad king. Stannis was helping Robert in his rebellion. So was this one of the laws under Targaryian rule that Davos was violating, because if so, it seems like Stannis was just as guilty of violating the law, so what was his punishment?


Davos had been a smuggler for years. It's not his sneaking through the seige that was his crime, but being a smuggler for all those years before the rebellion.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Talisa and her fine ass


Indeed. Indeed.
My wife made me rewind that scene a few times to get a better look.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

fmowry said:


> Some storytelling but I'll agree on the rather unexciting episode.


It occurred to me to that we always seem to get a ho-hum episode when there two episodes left afterwards. It happened on Breaking Bad, Homeland, Justified.

I guess we need to expect that they have to do a lot of setting up of all the traps that are going to spring rapid-fire on the last 2 episodes.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I had one major complaint about this episode:



Joffrey didn't get slapped.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

allan said:


> I had one major complaint about this episode:
> 
> Joffrey didn't get slapped.


No, but he set himself up for a MAJOR fall if he thinks he's going to cut Stannis from ear-to-ear!!!


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

allan said:


> I had one major complaint about this episode:
> Joffrey didn't get slapped.


:up::up::up:


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

netringer said:


> It occurred to me to that we always seem to get a ho-hum episode when there two episodes left afterwards. It happened on Breaking Bad, Homeland, Justified.
> 
> I guess we need to expect that they have to do a lot of setting up of all the traps that are going to spring rapid-fire on the last 2 episodes.


It's like the end of the second act of the season, before everything goes ape**** and we hit the climax.

Classic story arc.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> :up::up::up:


That is what GIF's are for to always remember


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I feel sorry for the kid who plays Joffrey...he does such a great job, and has such a distinctive face, that his career is probably effectively over when this show ends. Because nobody is ever going to be able to look at him and see anything but Joffrey.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I feel sorry for the kid who plays Joffrey...he does such a great job, and has such a distinctive face, that his career is probably effectively over when this show ends. Because nobody is ever going to be able to look at him and see anything but Joffrey.


maybe if he grows a goatee and start wearing glasses...


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

allan said:


> I had one major complaint about this episode:
> 
> Joffrey didn't get slapped.





TonyTheTiger said:


> No, but he set himself up for a MAJOR fall if he thinks he's going to cut Stannis from ear-to-ear!!!


And he got slapped (not physically), by Tyrion's "Imagine Stannis' terror" comment.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Haha! I can't get enough of those gifs. 
On another note about Joffrey or moreso Jack Gleeson. He was in Batman. And look how adorable he was as a kid!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> maybe if he grows a goatee and start wearing glasses...


What a silly combination THAT would be!


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Haha! I can't get enough of those gifs.
> On another note about Joffrey or moreso Jack Gleeson. He was in Batman. And look how adorable he was as a kid!


No he wasn't.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Talisa and her fine ass





DUDE_NJX said:


> Indeed. Indeed.
> My wife made me rewind that scene a few times to get a better look.


I had to go back to S1E1 to check out Dany's booty again (as if I needed an excuse). Dany still has the best ass in the land, but wow is Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter beautiful. Who needs that bridge, anyway?



mwhip said:


> That is what GIF's are for to always remember


I believe that's known as being imp-slapped.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

DUDE_NJX said:


> No he wasn't.


He was in Batman Begins:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0322416/


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Haha! I can't get enough of those gifs.


I meant to upload this for you a few weeks ago:


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I feel sorry for the kid who plays Joffrey...he does such a great job, and has such a distinctive face, that his career is probably effectively over when this show ends. Because nobody is ever going to be able to look at him and see anything but Joffrey.


Sort of like the guy who played Draco Malfoy


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mwhip said:


> Sort of like the guy who played Draco Malfoy


I read in an interview that the first thing he did when the last Harry Potter wrapped was go sunbathing.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

He did ok in Planet of the Apes.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tivoboyjr said:


> I believe that's known as being imp-slapped.


Heee! Clever.



LordKronos said:


> I meant to upload this for you a few weeks ago:


I need a gif of all the slaps (hand and cowpie) on repeat. That would make me mucho happy.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

LordKronos said:


> it was pointed out that Tyrion gave Ros a Lannister lion necklace and Cersie was using that as verification that she indeed found the right whore.


As someone else asked, do we know when he did that? Probably not or someone would have answered by now. It isn't like Tyrion to go around passing out necklaces to whores so that they can be killed instead of Shae. Also we know he took Roz to Joffrey, so maybe he could have unthinkingly given it to her to make up for that, but he's usually smarter than that. Otherwise I don't remember seeing him with Roz except maybe at Winterfell in season 1. I wonder if Littlefinger could have something to do with this...but he's away...


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Indeed. Indeed.
> My wife made me rewind that scene a few times to get a better look.


That was a fine arse indeed! To bad it was Shea (Sibel Kekilli) and not her who made pr0n movies...


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> As someone else asked, do we know when he did that? Probably not or someone would have answered by now. It isn't like Tyrion to go around passing out necklaces to whores so that they can be killed instead of Shae. Also we know he took Roz to Joffrey, so maybe he could have unthinkingly given it to her to make up for that, but he's usually smarter than that. Otherwise I don't remember seeing him with Roz except maybe at Winterfell in season 1. I wonder if Littlefinger could have something to do with this...but he's away...


Theon notices Ros wearing the necklace in season 1, episode 5.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> I like how you left off my  from the quoted text so it looks like I was just being a *****. I was teasing you. But now that I know the above, I won't bother reading your posts because we are clearly not seeing the same show!! )


Wotta *****...


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Davos had been a smuggler for years. It's not his sneaking through the seige that was his crime, but being a smuggler for all those years before the rebellion.


Ereth is correct, remember Davos's boat has black sails, which is an indicator that it was used covertly during the nights.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Fleegle said:


> Wotta *****...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I feel sorry for the kid who plays Joffrey...he does such a great job, and has such a distinctive face, that his career is probably effectively over when this show ends. Because nobody is ever going to be able to look at him and see anything but Joffrey.


We need to check. If he's like the other actors he's not really blonde, so the next time we see him as the bad guy on CSI we'll wonder where we saw him before.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> As someone else asked, do we know when he did that? Probably not or someone would have answered by now. It isn't like Tyrion to go around passing out necklaces to whores so that they can be killed instead of Shae. Also we know he took Roz to Joffrey, so maybe he could have unthinkingly given it to her to make up for that, but he's usually smarter than that. Otherwise I don't remember seeing him with Roz except maybe at Winterfell in season 1. I wonder if Littlefinger could have something to do with this...but he's away...


I assumed he gave it her when he visited Winterfell with the King (early in Season 1). Ros is reputed to be awesome in bed and Tyrion is usually drunk when at a whorehouse.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I've been debating this topic for a while, wondering if spoiler tags would rule the day...for those who read the books, you can laugh at the posts and shake your head about our stupidity 

to those who did not read the books: what do you think will happen next?

1. Will Stannis win? if so, what will happen to Joffrey and - more importantly - Tyrion?

2. Will Arya get to Robb in time to warn him? Will Tywin finally win one?

3. Will the bastard get to Winterfell and bring Theon to Robb?

4. You know someone will die. Probably more than one. Who do you think will die this weekend?

my answers:

1. The firewater thing might save the day for Tyrion. Joffrey will not die and neither will Tyrion.

2. No. Arya will not get there in time. Robb will lose the battle.

3. Yes. The men will abandon Theon, who will be brought before a pissed-off Robb.

4. Tywin and Stannis will die. Theon, of course.

any questions I didn't ask? what are your answers?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Actually, not sure who will die, but I bet the season ends during the seige at Kings Landing, so we won't know who will win until next season.

Finally watched. While not the most exciting episode, it was clearly a setup for the final two weeks, which from the previews look amazing. Still better than 99.9% of what is on TV. The hour goes by so quickly, as has the past 8 weeks worth of episodes.

Comments:
I saw right away that it wasn't Shae that Cierci brought out. And I smiled knowing that Tyion still could play the game, since his whore was still safe. But I imagine she's going to get smuggled out of town.

Arya is still my favorite character. She's so smart and cunning and tough as nails.

Jon Snow is an idiot, and he's beginning to annoy me. He's been impulsive since the first season, and it's not any different. I knew he'd do something that would get others killed.

Anyone cheer when you saw the scene at the end where the two Stark brothers were alive. I kept saying....good....good. Does Theon know that the tarred bodies are not them? That was unclear to me.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I've been debating this topic for a while, wondering if spoiler tags would rule the day...for those who read the books, you can laugh at the posts and shake your head about our stupidity


Ha ha ha ha ha!

So hard for me. I've just given up posting on these threads altogether.

All I can say is YOUR MIND WILL BE BLOWN!

Heehee.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Does Theon know that the tarred bodies are not them? That was unclear to me.


My guess is that Theon's hand (not sure of his name) wants him to believe they are the Stark boys so he'll think he's at the point of no return.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

goblue97 said:


> My guess is that Theon's hand (not sure of his name) wants him to believe they are the Stark boys so he'll think he's at the point of no return.


really? I think Theon is fully aware of the ruse and did it himself. The boys would have been captured alive (it's not like they had weapons) and brought before Theon. There is no doubt in my mind that Theon killed the farmer boys to save face.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Pretty sure Theon knows it isn't them. I thought the conversation where he's attempting to give Dagmer gold to pass off to the farmer for his... uh troubles made that clear.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think Tyrion will create a burning field where troops that land will get caught. he will cover the landing site with pigcrap and then light it up with his firewater.

Sorry, I'm too anxious about next sunday and can't help but speculate!


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> 1. Will Stannis win? if so, what will happen to Joffrey and - more importantly - Tyrion?
> 2. Will Arya get to Robb in time to warn him? Will Tywin finally win one?
> 3. Will the bastard get to Winterfell and bring Theon to Robb?
> 4. You know someone will die. Probably more than one. Who do you think will die this weekend?


My answers:
1. I don't see how Stannis can lose at this point, at least the battle for King's Landing. Unless that wildfire is used by Tyrion smartly. All I know is Tyrion CANNOT die.
2. Tywin is going to attack Robb with a handful of men, no? I don't see how he wins this. I'd like Robb to remain undefeated.
3. I already know this because I asked about Theon/Robb to book readers so I'm staying quiet.
4. Oh gosh, I don't know who will die. I just know the ones I want to die will surely live to piss me off another day. It makes for good story, I suppose.



Anubys said:


> my answers:
> 1. The firewater thing might save the day for Tyrion. Joffrey will not die and neither will Tyrion.
> 2. No. Arya will not get there in time. Robb will lose the battle.
> 3. Yes. The men will abandon Theon, who will be brought before a pissed-off Robb.
> ...


My reply to your thoughts: 
1. Wildfire.  You made me look it up to be sure because that didn't sound right in my ears. I agree neither will die.
2. I don't think Arya will get there in time but I think Robb will still end up victorious. However his new girlfriend could end up collateral damange.
4. Tywin will probably die, leaving Tyrion the HBIC hopefully with many many more imp-slamps (tm tivoboyjr) to come next season. I don't know if I think Theon will die but it's possible. I don't think Stannis will die. I HOPE Davos doesn't take a blade for him though.



Steveknj said:


> Actually, not sure who will die, but I bet the season ends during the seige at Kings Landing, so we won't know who will win until next season.


We have 2 episodes left. Previews indicates the battle is next. I can't see them spreading that out 2 entire episodes but I suppose they could. I'll be disappointed if we don't have an outcome of some sort before going to break.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Pretty sure Theon knows it isn't them. I thought the conversation where he's attempting to give Dagmer gold to pass off to the farmer for his... uh troubles made that clear.


At first I thought the gold was for helping them capture the Stark boys. You're way makes sense as well.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> We have 2 episodes left. Previews indicates the battle is next. I can't see them spreading that out 2 entire episodes but I suppose they could. I'll be disappointed if we don't have an outcome of some sort before going to break.


Only reason I say there will be a siege is they've spent an awful lot of time talking about sieges. Both Stannis and Tyrion have talked about it.  So I'm just going on my "TV intelligence" to reach that conclusion.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Jon Snow is an idiot...


He's not an idiot. He just knows nothing, Jon Snow.


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## Rickvz (Sep 5, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I think Tyrion will create a burning field where troops that land will get caught. he will cover the landing site with pigcrap and then light it up with his firewater.
> 
> Sorry, I'm too anxious about next sunday and can't help but speculate!


I don't think that they will literally use pig crap, that statement referred to Bron's comment when they were looking at the jars of wildfire.

As for the speculations, it is fun to read them since I suspect we thought some of the same things as we read the books. It's not a spoiler to say that the next two episodes should be amazing. I've been looking forward to the next episode all season.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I love reading posts with lots of speculation like Anubys's because sometimes for a short time I recapture the frisson of not having any idea what was coming... so many possibilities! Very exciting.

However, I'm not sad that I read the books first. There's much fun to be had this way as well and I'm not sure I could take it (certainly right now when work is absolutely crushing me, the last thing I need is to be daydreaming about next week's GoT!)


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

madscientist said:


> I love reading posts with lots of speculation like Anubys's because sometimes for a short time I recapture the frisson of not having any idea what was coming... so many possibilities! Very exciting.
> 
> However, I'm not sad that I read the books first. There's much fun to be had this way as well and I'm not sure I could take it (certainly right now when work is absolutely crushing me, the last thing I need is to be daydreaming about next week's GoT!)


I was thinking the exact opposite! I'm glad I don't know what's coming up so I will enjoy the show and the surprises!


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Anubys said:


> I was thinking the exact opposite! I'm glad I don't know what's coming up so I will enjoy the show and the surprises!


For me, this.

I have three guys at various stages of reading the books here at work and we speculate and discuss each episode without giving away spoilers. However, I do get "well, they did this different from the book" and sometimes reasons for it, which is also interesting.


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Anubys said:


> 1. Will Stannis win? if so, what will happen to Joffrey and - more importantly - Tyrion?


I'm pretty sure Tyrion will live and he will probably save Joffrey. I think the wildfire will be able to hold off Stannis' army thus creating the siege of a (possibly decimated) King's Landing



Anubys said:


> 2. Will Arya get to Robb in time to warn him? Will Tywin finally win one?


I don't see Arya getting safely to Robb, her life seems to be the "Perils of Pauline" (or maybe the "Adventures of Arya")



Anubys said:


> 3. Will the bastard get to Winterfell and bring Theon to Robb?


Yup and since Robb knows that "The one who passes sentence must carry it out" we will be treated to the scene of Robb beheading someone he considered "Almost a brother"



Anubys said:


> 4. You know someone will die. Probably more than one. Who do you think will die this weekend?


Number 1 is the Night's watchman with Jon (that's a layup). Tywin, unlikely, Stannis maybe, Davos likely, Brianne likely



Anubys said:


> any questions I didn't ask? what are your answers?


What happens to Jamie and Brianne?

I think they arrive in King's landing shortly before Stannis' army, and get seperated in the chaos, Jamie helps save his brother and ummm "nephew", Brianne goes after Stannis and gets Davos instead.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

I want to say to all the non-bookreaders: "You know nothing Jon Snow."


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

It's definitely going to be interesting to see if they diverge from the books.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Seems like no one cares what happens to Dany and the dragons


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I assumed he gave it her when he visited Winterfell with the King (early in Season 1). Ros is reputed to be awesome in bed and Tyrion is usually drunk when at a whorehouse.


Was Ros the whore that was Theon's favorite, who he saw off when she was on the cart to King's Landing?


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

audioscience said:


> I want to say to all the non-bookreaders: "You know nothing Jon Snow."


My wife keeps saying things like "I hope he gets it in the battle." or what not and it is very difficult to not say "Well actually..."

I can't resist saying things like "Well you don't...yet" when she says something like "Do we know who that person is?"


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Seems like no one cares what happens to Dany and the dragons


"The Mother of Dragons will be with her baebies!"

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjoRFC0-31c&t=2m5s[/media]


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

netringer said:


> Was Ros the whore that was Theon's favorite, who he saw off when she was on the cart to King's Landing?


Yes. And Theon told Tyrion to visit her as well.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Mr. Merkin said:


> That was a fine arse indeed! To bad it was Shea (Sibel Kekilli) and not her who made pr0n movies...


Off to the internets!

Touching on what someone else has said, I am said to see there has been little Dany love so far this season. Her story gets better, I promise. Surely no one considers that a spoiler?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Shaunnick said:


> Touching on what someone else has said, I am said to see there has been little Dany love so far this season. Her story gets better, I promise. Surely no one considers that a spoiler?


SPOILER! SPOILER! 

I have love for Dany but they are dragging their feet on telling her story, which I fully get... there are just so many characters to tell the story of in just 10 episodes. I just wish they had spent less time showing her in the vast Dothroki desert before getting to Qarth. Either way, I still have much love for Jorah although I just know he's never gonna get what he wants from her. He'll probably die protecting her. Once she and her babies finally make it across to Westeros that should be super fun!!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I just can't wait until they get to the part where Jaime finally realizes what a %@^$ Cersei is, and dumps her for Tyrion.




photoshopgrl said:


> I have love for Dany but they are dragging their feet on telling her story, which I fully get... there are just so many characters to tell the story of in just 10 episodes. I just wish they had spent less time showing her in the vast Dothroki desert before getting to Qarth.


Be glad this isn't the books, where a lot less of her story gets dragged out a lot more.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Will Stannis win? if so, what will happen to Joffrey and - more importantly - Tyrion?


Even if Tyrion dies at this point in the books (which I seriously doubt) there's no way they're killing him off in the TV show. He's the reason many (most?) people watch.



photoshopgrl said:


> imp-slamps (tm tivoboyjr)


I don't have the trademark on that. I saw it somewhere and it cracked me up and stuck with me. Glad you like it, too.



cherry ghost said:


> Seems like no one cares what happens to Dany and the dragons


I grew to like Dany in season one, but this season she's all "I want a ship!" and "I want my dragons!" and not much else. Qarth seems very Qartoonish to me so that hasn't been a very compelling storyline, either.

I also have to admit that I'm one of those people who doesn't like to see too much "magic" and such on the show. That's the one thing that could cause me to tune out. So far, the balance has been just right, but the dragons could change that. I see this show as a medieval version of The Sopranos and like it that way. If it's dueling wizards, witches and dragons, I'll lose interest really fast. So from that perspective, I'm OK with the dragons staying lost - though I am sure they will be found.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Dany this year has turned into her brother. That may change in the future, but I do groan when I see her on screen now. Of course, that could easily be remedied with some nudity 

I'd like for Stannis to die only because it would take away the only legit contender to the throne. That would make next season even more chaotic (fun!).

Bron is too awesome a character for George to have killed off in the books. But then again, he killed off Yoren without second thought...


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He's not an idiot. He just knows nothing, Jon Snow.





audioscience said:


> I want to say to all the non-bookreaders: "You know nothing Jon Snow."


Grrr. I like spoilers better than _this_.


----------



## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> *Even if Tyrion dies at this point in the books (which I seriously doubt) there's no way they're killing him off in the TV show. He's the reason many (most?) people watch.*
> 
> I don't have the trademark on that. I saw it somewhere and it cracked me up and stuck with me. Glad you like it, too.
> 
> ...


Like Sean Bean?


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> Even if Tyrion dies at this point in the books (which I seriously doubt) there's no way they're killing him off in the TV show. He's the reason many (most?) people watch.
> 
> I don't have the trademark on that. I saw it somewhere and it cracked me up and stuck with me. Glad you like it, too.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this. I can deal with a little magic and that sort of thing, but when it turns into being MOSTLY about that, I'm gone. So far, it's been a great balance.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

billypritchard said:


> Like Sean Bean?


Different. Killing off Ned was brilliant, and speaking for myself, it was so jarring that it drew me in to the show even more.

I think killing off Tyrion would cause a lot of people to watch something else instead of GOT. Tyrion is by far the most interesting character, and the only comic relief on a show that needs some comic relief now and then. Ned was a good guy, but not very interesting.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Having read the books it is sometimes painful not responding to some of the things said on this forum. Arg.

I think of an inside joke about every third post.

I guess I only have to behave for another 5 years or so...


----------



## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

Robb has got to lose a battle at some point. Makes for a better story.


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Anubys said:


> really? I think Theon is fully aware of the ruse and did it himself. The boys would have been captured alive (it's not like they had weapons) and brought before Theon. There is no doubt in my mind that Theon killed the farmer boys to save face.


But didn't he have a conversation with his sister about them being dead? Wouldn't he let her in on the ruse if there was one?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tivoboyjr said:


> I think killing off Tyrion would cause a lot of people to watch something else instead of GOT. Tyrion is by far the most interesting character, and the only comic relief on a show that needs some comic relief now and then. Ned was a good guy, but not very interesting.


I would still watch but I don't think I'd be as in love with the show as I currently am.... but I probably don't even need to state that since every single thread I start my first post undoubtedly talks about how amazing Dinklage is or how much fun Tyrion is. Now you're making me sad just thinking about it. 

And I agree, Ned was a total shock because I didn't realize they would have the balls to kill off the main character before season 1 even ends! I'm not sure I got to know him as more than a father of a bastard son, friend to the King and seeker of truth. There was nothing to get invested in _him _personally.



markb said:


> Robb has got to lose a battle at some point. Makes for a better story.


You expect that he will have to lose eventually. That's why I don't think he should.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

goblue97 said:


> But didn't he have a conversation with his sister about them being dead? Wouldn't he let her in on the ruse if there was one?


HELL NO. She's one of the main people he's trying to impress with this entire thing. Her and his dad.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

To the concern about too much magic I just want to say that dragons take a really long time to grow up.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

^^ Just can't resist, huh?


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> ^^ Just can't resist, huh?


Well, I don't think it's much of a secret. As a non-book reader who is merely aware that books exist, I'm going to guess dragons take about 4 books to mature (though I suppose I shouldn't judge a book by it's cover).


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

heySkippy said:


> ^^ Just can't resist, huh?


pipe down skippy


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> pipe down skippy


I think I won't.

/Yoren


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Well, I don't think it's much of a secret. As a non-book reader who is merely aware that books exist, I'm going to guess dragons take about 4 books to mature (though I suppose I shouldn't judge a book by it's cover).


Maybe they've gotten a better formula for Purina Dragon Chow than they had 1000 years ago.

----

I think a great rock band name would be _Ducksauce and the Warlocks._

----

How about Caitlin and Brienne having witnessed a king being killed by a shadow, "Ho hum. Let's went, B," and never tell the rival king, even if it is her son?

----

I'd have to check, but I think the 8th episode of season 1 was also a dragger. King Robert dies and Ned is betrayed in episode 7/10.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> Well, I don't think it's much of a secret. As a non-book reader who is merely aware that books exist, I'm going to guess dragons take about 4 books to mature (though I suppose I shouldn't judge a book by it's cover).


Yeah, considering they're the size of small cats right now it's not a huge leap to make that assumption.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Well, I don't think it's much of a secret. As a non-book reader who is merely aware that books exist, I'm going to guess dragons take about 4 books to mature (though I suppose I shouldn't judge a book by it's cover).


Unfortunately 4 books is about 20 years the way things are going...and that isn't a story spoiler that is a real life spoiler. G.R.R. Martin is spoiling my real life by taking so freaking long to write these things.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Jon Snow is an idiot, and he's beginning to annoy me. He's been impulsive since the first season, and it's not any different. I knew he'd do something that would get others killed.


It's easy to forget, tho, that all the Stark kids are just that--kids. In the books even younger than the show, but young in both. They should mature and get wiser as time goes on--if they get the chance. 



madscientist said:


> However, I'm not sad that I read the books first. There's much fun to be had this way as well and I'm not sure I could take it (certainly right now when work is absolutely crushing me, the last thing I need is to be daydreaming about next week's GoT!)


Me too. You can only have the suspense once, and I had that reading the books. Now I enjoy every minute of watching this awesome story be acted out. You guys who don't know what's going to happen are impatient with a set-up episode, but I enjoy every second.



jakerock said:


> Unfortunately 4 books is about 20 years the way things are going...and that isn't a story spoiler that is a real life spoiler. G.R.R. Martin is spoiling my real life by taking so freaking long to write these things.


You mean it will take 20 years to write 4 more books, or 20 years will pass in Westeros?

I'm wondering what they're going to do about the younger kids aging if they only do 1 book/season--which is all they can do with 10 episodes. I don't think that much time is passing in Westeros, although it's hard to tell when winters and summers go on for "years." Not sure exactly what that word means here.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> It's easy to forget, tho, that all the Stark kids are just that--kids. In the books even younger than the show, but young in both. They should mature and get wiser as time goes on--if they get the chance.


I read the first book so far, and yes, I realize they are younger in the books. That said, when you contrast Snow to his brothers and to even Arya, he's a lot more impulsive than any of them, even Bran. He would make a very reckless leader. So while he's young, he's not like the other Starks in that regard.

(I'm going by what I see in the TV show, not anything in the books).


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I honestly think that Martin will die before he ends the series similar to Robert Jordan and the WoT series. I hope Martin is keeping good notes!


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I honestly think that Martin will die before he ends the series similar to Robert Jordan and the WoT series. I hope Martin is keeping good notes!


I think I saw an interview where he says he's told the EPs of the show how the story ends in case something happens to him.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> You mean it will take 20 years to write 4 more books, or 20 years will pass in Westeros?


He means in real life, to write it. There are 7 books total. The first was published in 1996, then the next 4 in 1998, 2000, 2005, and 2011. Book 6 is still being written.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

audioscience said:


> I think I saw an interview where he says he's told the EPs of the show how the story ends in case something happens to him.


EPs?

Oh, executive producers...I'd really hate to see the end of the story come from TV.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> He means in real life, to write it. There are 7 books total. The first was published in 1996, then the next 4 in 1998, 2000, 2005, and 2011. Book 6 is still being written.


So there was a gap of 6 years between the last books? Oh that would not have pleased me at all had I been reading them.


----------



## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

goblue97 said:


> But didn't he have a conversation with his sister about them being dead? Wouldn't he let her in on the ruse if there was one?





photoshopgrl said:


> HELL NO. She's one of the main people he's trying to impress with this entire thing. Her and his dad.


And doing it only serves to show them both that Theon has no idea how his family thinks. He' thinking like a Stark. Take the enemy's capitol and make teh Lord bend the knee. Bot going so far inland makes that capitol all but impossible for the Iron Islanders to defend as their supply chain is days away at best.

He's hunting on land like a wolf, not across the sea like a kraken.

If memory serves, didn't Theon's sister also tear him down for killing "Bran" and "Rickon" saying that he's made all of the Northmen hate him for killing two little boys? Really, thinking more about it, none of the options Theon were given would have won him the respect he wants to badly. He doesn't think like a kraken and doesn't know how to start.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> So there was a gap of 6 years between the last books? Oh that would not have pleased me at all had I been reading them.


IT DIDN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL. NOT AT ALL. 

Further complicating things is that the plot lines get a LOT more complicated as the books go on. Book (Season) 1 was pretty straight forward. But it seems like every character you meet ends up with a plot line moving forward. Book 4 which took forever for him to write ended up being split into Book 4 and 5. Because he couldn't fit it all i none volume. Supposedly when Book 4 came out the second half (5) was close to being done. Supposedly because it took 6 years (and help from another author) to get it out.

The book was great! But sheesh. By the time a book comes out I've forgetten what the heck was happening in the last book. Luckily I found a great website that summarizes each chapter of each book and I read that ahead of time to refresh my memory of who was where with whom.

Oh and further complicating things: Book 4 and 5 take place at the same time. So when you start Book 5 (6 years after finishing Book 4) you get confused because you've gone back in time from the stand point that things that you read happened haven't happened yet. (Above and beyond the good job GRRM does of keeping straight what character's know, think they know, and what they don't know due to geography, rumors, and lies etc.) Like mom thinking that both girls are being held hostage though we know Arya has escaped.

It is confusing and frustrating. If the dang things weren't so dang good I'd stop reading them.

GRRM also writes a lot of other stuff and edits books in Sci Fi etc. I want to thump him upside the head and say "FOCUS! You're killing me." I had hoped that Jordan dying would motivate the bugger to get it done before it is too late.

Oh my I'm ranting like a crazy man. Sure I can wait another 5 years for the next book. Noooo problem.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

So do we have any idea just how many books total he plans on making this story? I'm wondering if he goes on forever, so can the show, no?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> So there was a gap of 6 years between the last books? Oh that would not have pleased me at all had I been reading them.


another reason why I'm perfectly happy to pile the books up on my Kindle and wait until the show is over to start reading them.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

For all the Joffrey haters, here's an interview of the actor who plays him, Jack Gleeson, talking about a completely different role. It's funny to see him as not being a complete little sh*t. 

The interview itself isn't that exciting but you can see what an actual nice kid he is (he's 20) and it's kind of weird to see him talk about something completely different.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

I wonder when the Wheel of Time movies will come out. I thought the first one was supposed to be out by now.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> So there was a gap of 6 years between the last books? Oh that would not have pleased me at all had I been reading them.


Yeah, I read them all last year and at first I was thinking that book 5 was the end. Then I found out it's nowhere near the end. 

I'm hoping that now that they're so popular with the show and all, he'll write a little faster. I hadn't even thought about the possibility of him dying before they are done. Now I'm going to be worrying about his health. 

Poor Theon--I would have bet killing the boys was the way to make them pay the iron price. In fact didn't his Kracken advisor guy tell him to do it? Now his sister is unhappy. No way for Theon to win. It was nice to see that his sister at least has some affection for him, although she hides it pretty well.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> So do we have any idea just how many books total he plans on making this story? I'm wondering if he goes on forever, so can the show, no?


He says he settled on doing 7 (two more). Check out this interview at around 18:08. The entire interview is great...I don't think there are spoilers but just in case viewer beware.

[Edit: although he does go on to say nothing is written in blood and the main thing is to tell the story. ]


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> So do we have any idea just how many books total he plans on making this story? I'm wondering if he goes on forever, so can the show, no?





audioscience said:


> He says he settled on doing 7 (two more).


Well, it's a trilogy, so at this point I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt... 

Or as Douglas Adams once put on the jacket of one of his books, "Book Five In The Increasingly Inaccurately-Named Hitchhiker's Guide Trilogy!"


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay I think I want this show to go on forever at this point. Especially with only 10 episodes per season. So RR keep on writing!!


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> ^^ Just can't resist, huh?


I'm sorry, is that really a spoiler? They aren't much bigger now, than they were at the end of last season.

I thought about it a long time before I posted it. I decided it was safe. It wasn't a spur-of-the-moment/can't resist post, it was a "what can I say that will help without giving anything significant away".

If I was wrong, I apologize and I'll remove it. Do you think I went too far?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Ereth said:


> I'm sorry, is that really a spoiler? They aren't much bigger now, than they were at the end of last season.
> 
> I thought about it a long time before I posted it. I decided it was safe. It wasn't a spur-of-the-moment/can't resist post, it was a "what can I say that will help without giving anything significant away".
> 
> If I was wrong, I apologize and I'll remove it. *Do you think I went too far?*


NO.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Didn't Varys and Tyrion have a discussion about how dragons take a long time to grow up and end it with something like "that will be someone else's problem?" 

I didn't view the comment here as a spoiler at all.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Ereth said:


> I'm sorry, is that really a spoiler? They aren't much bigger now, than they were at the end of last season.
> 
> I thought about it a long time before I posted it. I decided it was safe. It wasn't a spur-of-the-moment/can't resist post, it was a "what can I say that will help without giving anything significant away".
> 
> If I was wrong, I apologize and I'll remove it. Do you think I went too far?


His remark was a total over-reaction. It was made clear in the show that it will take years for the dragons to grow.



photoshopgrl said:


> NO.


that's what she said.



tivoboyjr said:


> Didn't Varys and Tyrion have a discussion about how dragons take a long time to grow up and end it with something like "that will be someone else's problem?"
> 
> I didn't view the comment here as a spoiler at all.


Yes. They did. They also mentioned it when she was trying to negotiate with all the rulers of Qarth. It's only a spoiler if you're not paying attention, I guess.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Yes. They did. They also mentioned it when she was trying to negotiate with all the rulers of Qarth. It's only a spoiler if you're not paying attention, I guess.


What was a spoiler was the acknowledgment that these particular dragons will live long enough to take a long time to grow old.


----------



## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

heySkippy said:


> What was a spoiler was the acknowledgment that these particular dragons will live long enough to take a long time to grow old.


No he didn't. He said dragons take a long time to grow up, literally the exact same thing that was said in the show.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I was thinking the exact opposite! I'm glad I don't know what's coming up so I will enjoy the show and the surprises!


Well it's not like I magically knew the entire plotline the minute I started the first page of the first book. I certainly had the same feeling of not knowing what was coming and enjoying the surprises... only with the book.

Now I get to amuse myself watching all of you try to guess what's coming... I do believe that might be even better. Being surprised is something I can do while I read. Gleefully hearing all the theories put forth here and being able to chuckle (or, very rarely, nod sagely) at their accuracy requires all of you to participate. You're doing a great job!

And of course I get to say "WTH?!?!" when they change it up and something I didn't expect happens.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

The interview with GRRM is really interesting. Thanks. I'd seen his picture, but not heard him talk. For some reason I thought he was British. I like the question about who most personifies his character as from the books--of course it was Peter Dinklege (sp?). He said he was the only one who read for the part. But he also admitted that he is too good looking and too tall compared to Tyrion in the books.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

audioscience said:


> For all the Joffrey haters, here's an interview of the actor who plays him, Jack Gleeson, talking about a completely different role. It's funny to see him as not being a complete little sh*t.
> 
> The interview itself isn't that exciting but you can see what an actual nice kid he is (he's 20) and it's kind of weird to see him talk about something completely different.


This one will also blow your mind:






They must be actors or something.

There are a bunch more related on YouTube


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

netringer said:


> They must be actors or something.


"Dude...that sucks!"


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> So there was a gap of 6 years between the last books? Oh that would not have pleased me at all had I been reading them.


Edit: just realized I smeeked jakerock - sorry about that. But see! Martin is driving us ALL MAD!

Trust me. It sucked. He says the next one is "mostly done", but he said that about Dance, for three years. In fact, he even claims Dance and Feast were once one book and the publishers made him split them up (the timelines in each do indeed overlap a bit). Even still, 6 years. Sigh. I've already resigned to Winds coming out in 2018.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mostman said:


> He says the next one is "mostly done", but he said that about Dance, for three years.


He does? A few months after the last one was released, he was talking about how the only chapters he had written for the new book were ones that were bumped from Dance, and lamenting his inability to get into writing more.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

In that interview I posted, doesn't he say he has 200 pages of the next one?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Well hopefully he'll have the next book done and out before the show catches up.


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I honestly think that Martin will die before he ends the series similar to Robert Jordan and the WoT series. I hope Martin is keeping good notes!


I read an interview where he has said that he has officially designated someone to finish the writing of the saga should he become unable.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

tiassa said:


> I read an interview where he has said that he has officially designated someone to finish the writing of the saga should he become unable.


Is there a clause in that if he is just too freaking slow. "In the event the author dies or just sits on his ass for more than 2 years..."


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Oh and speaking of books a slight spoiler: The story (IMO) gets better too. I think this last book was perhaps the best of the bunch (of course part of that is since he writes each chapter from the view point of a specific character, I may just have liked the characters it focused on more).

I remember reading book one how good I thought it was but that book almost seems like a prologue for the rest of the series. It was so very uncomplicated and straightforward. It seemed like a book about the Starks of Winterfell. As we've seen since the Starks are just one part of the story.

Of course when he killed off what I assumed was the main protagonist (of the Stark story) it did come as a bit of a surprise. Much like the Series that was the moment when it hits home that this story was different than most. I love the fact that there is no single destined hero, that every character (well not Joffrey) is three dimensional. Though I am not sure the show is able to convey that. Since in the book you spend a each chapter in specific person's head you get to see motives and can understand why certain easy to dislike characters do what they do. It does wonders for making it hard to hate (or love) anyone completely. Except Tyrion. Dinklage does a WONDEFUL job of bringing to live one of my favorite characters.

[SPOILERThere is no spoiler so don't be upset at me.[/SPOILER]

For some reason this morning I am having to fight the urge to write fake spoilers. The problem is that I can't think of anything so ridiculous (in that world) that it would be obviously fake, with the possible exception of referencing books that haven't been written. There is just enough supernatural/magic that anything could in theory happen though he uses it sparingly (which I like).

Disclaimer: The spoiler above is intentionally (and I thought obivously) FAKE . I thought would be funny because it is from a book that doesn't exist yet. Except that as an upset PM made me realize, non readers might not know that there is no book 8 so it wasn't obviously a joke. Though in my defense I did state that the only fake thing I could do is reference a book that hasn't been written. Sorry for the confusion. You the reader are not in anyway the only person who doesn't get my sense of humor.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jakerock said:


> For some reason this morning I am having to fight the urge to write fake spoilers.


I hope you don't mean here. That would be pointless (for me anyhow) and kind of a dick move for those that _do _actually want to know things.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> I hope you don't mean here. That would be pointless (for me anyhow) and kind of a dick move for those that _do _actually want to know things.


To be honest, as soon as I read his first words "and speaking of books a slight spoiler", I just didn't read the rest of the post. I could not imagine any good coming out of it!


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

You can't rush these things. If GRRM WANTS to take a long time, let him. The attention to detail is what makes this series compelling. Rushing something out would just turn it into <insert [email protected] weekly cop show here> or any other procedural TV show!!


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Anubys said:


> To be honest, as soon as I read his first words "and speaking of books a slight spoiler", I just didn't read the rest of the post. I could not imagine any good coming out of it!


The slight spoiler was simply me talking about the quality of the books as they go along (I did not talk about anything in the books). And that was in the line after I said that. If you don't want my opinion of how well the story holds up then don't read more.

Given how many of us are still reading it, it probably isn't really a spoiler, hence me describing it as "slight".

I LOVE these books and the show. I don't want to spoil it for anyone. Heck even the thing I put spoiler tags around isn't really a spoiler. I made a joke about something happening in a yet unwritten Book 8.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He does? A few months after the last one was released, he was talking about how the only chapters he had written for the new book were ones that were bumped from Dance, and lamenting his inability to get into writing more.


Yeah - I was thinking of the interview where he mentioned he had 200 pages done. Not sure why I figured that was "most" considering these books are 800 pages long.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> You can't rush these things. If GRRM WANTS to take a long time, let him. The attention to detail is what makes this series compelling. Rushing something out would just turn it into <insert [email protected] weekly cop show here> or any other procedural TV show!!


I agree in theory. In practice he writes a lot of other stuff and this sits around untouched (as far as I can tell). So he isn't paying attention to detail, he's just not working on it. I don't need Stephen King like production but waiting the better part of a decade for the second half of "an almost finished" book is discouraging. Extrapolate that out and you're looking at 18 years for this to finish if there are three more books. I don't know how many more books there are but there seems to be a lot more story to tell.

So if asking for him to work harder and not take 18 years is rushing him...well we differ in opinion on that.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

mostman said:


> Yeah - I was thinking of the interview where he mentioned he had 200 pages done. Not sure why I figured that was "most" considering these books are 800 pages long.


Or he takes those 200 pages and decided they really belong in the next book after that.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mostman said:


> Yeah - I was thinking of the interview where he mentioned he had 200 pages done. Not sure why I figured that was "most" considering these books are 800 pages long.


And he was probably talking manuscript pages, which would probably be about 100-120 pages of actual printed book.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> I hope you don't mean here. That would be pointless (for me anyhow) and kind of a dick move for those that _do _actually want to know things.


By fake I meant something so off the wall that it was funny. Like remarking about how Harry Potter dies at the end of Book 2 after the first movie came out. Sorry for the people that are still planning on reading or watching book/movie 2 of the Harry Potter series who thought he might live to the third book in that series of 7 titled Harry Potter and something... 

My point was that it is nice that he writes in a way that you can't take anything for granted. It makes it interesting. Anything outlandish I might say like Eddard Stark dies at the end of season 1! Might actually happen and so can't be written as a joke.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Should we be spoilerizing how long it takes him to write the books? 

That is the biggest way the show strays from the books!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

You all have it easy. Daniel Keys Moran's Tale of Continuing Time is supposed to be 33 books of which he has published 4 since 1988!

I have pretty much resigned myself to maybe reading 2 more books in my lifetime


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And he was probably talking manuscript pages, which would probably be about 100-120 pages of actual printed book.


The way I've heard, 200 pages from GRR would cover the action of a single character entering a room.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

netringer said:


> The way I've heard, 200 pages from GRR would cover the action of a single character entering a room.


Naw, it's about 1 chapter each for 5 characters that he'd be jumping between.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

His books may be massive, but they are by no means uneventful.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> His books may be massive, but they are by no means uneventful.


I don't know about that. All the shows so far have consisted of people walking in and out of rooms!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jakerock said:


> I LOVE these books and the show. I don't want to spoil it for anyone. Heck even the thing I put spoiler tags around isn't really a spoiler. I made a joke about something happening in a yet unwritten Book 8.


Now that was a pretty dick move. I've been one who has been open to reading spoilers because I want to know a little more about the books and backstory, and people here are pretty respectful not to put major info in the spoiler tage, so I don't generally feel there's any harm in reading spoilers (though I try to approach it with caution). When I opened your spoiler tag and read that somebody died, I quickly closed the tag and tried not to look at anything more in your post. I didn't want to fully understand the context of your spoiler so it was at least a partial mystery. Thus I didn't even see the part that indicated it was joke about book 8.

I was pretty pissed when I read that, and I sent you a PM asking you to fix it. Obviously I realize now it was just a joke, but it wasn't very funny.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I don't know about that. All the shows so far have consisted of people walking in and out of rooms!


Except they say eventful things in between, and often kill each other. Eventfully.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Well hopefully he'll have the next book done and out before the show catches up.


You better hope for more than just the next book, unless you want the show to go on a 5 year hiatus before coming back for the final season.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> Now that was a pretty dick move. I've been one who has been open to reading spoilers because I want to know a little more about the books and backstory, and people here are pretty respectful not to put major info in the spoiler tage, so I don't generally feel there's any harm in reading spoilers (though I try to approach it with caution). When I opened your spoiler tag and read that somebody died, I quickly closed the tag and tried not to look at anything more in your post. I didn't want to fully understand the context of your spoiler so it was at least a partial mystery. Thus I didn't even see the part that indicated it was joke about book 8.
> 
> I was pretty pissed when I read that, and I sent you a PM asking you to fix it. Obviously I realize now it was just a joke, but it wasn't very funny.


I lol'd.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

audioscience said:


> I lol'd.


Thanks. I feel less of a jerk now.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

The problem is, his "spoiler" implies that the character is safe for a long while - which is a huge spoiler in itself.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DUDE_NJX said:


> The problem is, his "spoiler" implies that the character is safe for a long while - which is a huge spoiler in itself.


Unless he was, er, joking...


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> The problem is, his "spoiler" implies that the character is safe for a long while - which is a huge spoiler in itself.


Sorry I was careful to choose a character that is alive at the point where the series is and had him die in some future event. But I in no way was trying to imply that the character lived until that pretend future event. Having said that I'm not implying the character doesn't live until that future event. I'm no longer implying anything either way. I am 100% untrustworthy and anything I say should be assumed to be a complete fabrication.

Any problem that I've caused was unintended on my part but I take full responsibility for it and comletely understand if you want to put me on ignore.

I can only take solace in the fact that I have clearly illustrated how hard it is to joke about anything happening in this series. It just doesn't work. I should have stuck with the Harry Potter thread.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jakerock said:


> Disclaimer: The spoiler above is intentionally (and I thought obivously) FAKE . I thought would be funny because it is from a book that doesn't exist yet. Except that as an upset PM made me realize, non readers might not know that there is no book 8 so it wasn't obviously a joke. Though in my defense I did state that the only fake thing I could do is reference a book that hasn't been written. Sorry for the confusion. You the reader are not in anyway the only person who doesn't get my sense of humor.


Well, I see you edited your post. Just so you know, my issue wasn't that I didn't get your joke. The problem was that I didn't even realize it was a joke. The instant my eyes got to the word died, I was like "oh crap, close this all before I read one word more, so I can at least be surprised by the details of it". Thus I never even SAW the part of your post that made it an obvious joke.

And if this forum had the feature, I would have gone and blocked all posts from your account since you apparently (or at least I thought) didn't have sense enough to keep HUGE events like that out of it. And I wasn't planning on reading your PM reply either for the same reason. It was only because I couldn't block you that I saw your post further down indicating it was a joke.

We're good, and I'm not mad at you. I just think a joke where someone might never realize it was a joke isn't a very good one. But who knows...maybe I'd be laughing if I hadn't spent 5 minutes pissed about it


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Now that was a pretty dick move. I've been one who has been open to reading spoilers because I want to know a little more about the books and backstory, and people here are pretty respectful not to put major info in the spoiler tage, so I don't generally feel there's any harm in reading spoilers (though I try to approach it with caution). When I opened your spoiler tag and read that somebody died, I quickly closed the tag and tried not to look at anything more in your post. I didn't want to fully understand the context of your spoiler so it was at least a partial mystery. Thus I didn't even see the part that indicated it was joke about book 8.
> 
> I was pretty pissed when I read that, and I sent you a PM asking you to fix it. Obviously I realize now it was just a joke, but it wasn't very funny.


I did the same thing, but I saw "book 8" in the corner of my eye, and realized it was a joke.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Why does every GoT episode thread end up a discussion on the books and whether talking about them is a spoiler or not?

I think the show stands great on it's own merit, books or no books. And there's a thread to discuss book vs. TV Show for those so inclined.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Ignore it?

There's obviously plenty of people here who haven't read the books who enjoy talking about some of the book elements as well.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Why does every GoT episode thread end up a discussion on the books and whether talking about them is a spoiler or not?
> 
> I think the show stands great on it's own merit, books or no books. And there's a thread to discuss book vs. TV Show for those so inclined.


Here we go.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

jakerock said:


> Sorry I was careful to choose a character that is alive at the point where the series is and had him die in some future event. But I in no way was trying to imply that the character lived until that pretend future event. Having said that I'm not implying the character doesn't live until that future event. I'm no longer implying anything either way. I am 100% untrustworthy and anything I say should be assumed to be a complete fabrication.
> 
> Any problem that I've caused was unintended on my part but I take full responsibility for it and comletely understand if you want to put me on ignore.
> 
> I can only take solace in the fact that I have clearly illustrated how hard it is to joke about anything happening in this series. It just doesn't work. I should have stuck with the Harry Potter thread.


In the vein of discussing comedy (which always ruins the humor), I would have recommended choosing a far more ridiculous book number (like, say 146) and putting that first. That would have sold the joke better.

Example: In book 146, I was really surprised when Captain Kirk and the Enterprise showed up. Dragons really are no match for phasers, it turns out.

This is ludicrous enough that nobody would take it seriously, and the "book 146" part at the very beginning of the sentence informs them that what is coming next isn't real, and you avoid the backlash. Unless there's personal issues that causes someone to read your posts with animosity regardless of their content, anyway.

It's a stronger punchline to save the reveal towards the end, but the risk is greater, too, that they'll take you seriously, and then there's no laugh at all.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jakerock said:


> I am 100% untrustworthy and anything I say should be assumed to be a complete fabrication


Done!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ereth said:


> Example: In book 146, I was really surprised when Captain Kirk and the Enterprise showed up. Dragons really are no match for phasers, it turns out.


 What! You're saying that the dragons will live until book 146? And not even a spoiler tag!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It's pretty obvious Ereth didn't even bother reading Vol. 146, but just read the dust jacket copy. Because if he'd read the whole book, he'd know that the dragons totally had Kirk and Spock for lunch.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

audioscience said:


> Ignore it?
> 
> There's obviously plenty of people here who haven't read the books who enjoy talking about some of the book elements as well.


So maybe we should have a 3rd thread or a 4th or a 5th.

A thread for just the book readers.

A thread for the TV viewers.

A thread for the book readers to spoil the TV viewers.

A thread for the book readers to spoil other book readers.

A thread for TV viewers to spoil book readers.

When does the madness end?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

It should be pretty straightforward - this is the "TV Show Talk" forum, and _discussions about the Game of Thrones TV show should be about the TV show_ - but apparently it's not that simple, since tons of people keep bringing up the books every time a new thread is created about the newest episode.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

BrettStah said:


> It should be pretty straightforward - this is the "TV Show Talk" forum, and _discussions about the Game of Thrones TV show should be about the TV show_ - but apparently it's not that simple, since tons of people keep bringing up the books every time a new thread is created about the newest episode.


And some people spend more time arguing this point than actually contributing to the episode discussion which is truly more annoying.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Maybe we can rehash this torrent stuff to just to really derail this conversation. I've kept out of the book talk stuff, but honestly, half the conversation is taken up with a meta commentary about what is and what isn't allowed. I think several off topic posts arguing about rules has got to be far more annoying than a spoilered post that can quickly be moved past. Or should we rehash the conversation about email notifications not being spoilered?

To keep this on topic, I like how Roz got beat up this episode! She's the worst!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Aniketos said:


> To keep this on topic, I like how Roz got beat up this episode! She's the worst!


I hope Roz (Ros?) continues to be the Forest Gump of the show...


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Aniketos said:


> Maybe we can rehash this torrent stuff to just to really derail this conversation. I've kept out of the book talk stuff, but honestly, half the conversation is taken up with a meta commentary about what is and what isn't allowed. I think several off topic posts arguing about rules has got to be far more annoying than a spoilered post that can quickly be moved past. Or should we rehash the conversation about email notifications not being spoilered?


Man, can't we just talk about whether or not we can talk about the books? Do we really need discussion about whether or not we can discuss whether or not we can talk about the book?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Anubys said:


> I hope Roz (Ros?) continues to be the Forest Gump of the show...


HBO bills her as Ros. For fear of mentioning the books, what do they show? Roz or Ros? It bugs me not to be sure about stupid things.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I hope Roz (Ros?) continues to be the Forest Gump of the show...


Great, now you've got me imagining Forest Gump working as a prostitute.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> HBO bills her as Ros. For fear of mentioning the books, what do they show? Roz or Ros? It bugs me not to be sure about stupid things.


Ros


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jehma said:


> Ros


Thanks! I kept typing that but everyone else seemed to be typing Roz so I thought maybe I was wrong.


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## Rickvz (Sep 5, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> HBO bills her as Ros. For fear of mentioning the books, what do they show? Roz or Ros? It bugs me not to be sure about stupid things.


Ros is not in the books, at least not using that name.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Rickvz said:


> Ros is not in the books, at least not using that name.


OMG, you're right. She's been in the show so much I forgot she was an addition.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rickvz said:


> Ros is not in the books, at least not using that name.


I vaguely remember someone saying Yara was named differently in the books too. I wonder why the changes...


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I vaguely remember someone saying Yara was named differently in the books too. I wonder why the changes...


That was to avoid confusing Osha and Asha. I can't get used to her being named Yara. I wish they had renamed Osha instead.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jehma said:


> That was to avoid confusing Osha and Asha. I can't get used to her being named Yara. I wish they had renamed Osha instead.


But they were okay with Tywin and Tyrion? I'd have just left them all the same.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> But they were okay with Tywin and Tyrion? I'd have just left them all the same.


At least they are father and son. Osha and Asha have no known relation.

Oops, spoiler alert!


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

audioscience said:


> At least they are father and son. Osha and Asha have no known relation.
> 
> Oops, spoiler alert!


Haha!
But seriously, is there anyone else that has a name change? Just out of curiosity.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> Haha!
> But seriously, is there anyone else that has a name change? Just out of curiosity.


To keep the vultures happy I shall flog him, er, I mean, spoiler tag him, er, it.



Spoiler



The new girl in Robb Starks life was Jeyne Westerling in the books, but the new girl is a completely new character, so it's not really a name change as much as they replaced Jeyne with someone else entirely.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Ereth said:


> To keep the vultures happy I shall flog him, er, I mean, spoiler tag him, er, it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just saw you replied to this! Thanks 

And I'm so excited, I can not only watch the show without worry that it's getting late but I can stay up and actually respond to some posts tonight. And I have a feeling there will be much to discuss after this epic battle!


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I'm kind of surprised it's on tonight. In the past, HBO has had an off week for some Sunday night shows when Monday is a National Holiday.


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