# Tivo4UK Petition



## bixbarton (Jan 2, 2004)

Hi Guys

I've started up a petition to try and persuade TiVo to look at returning to the UK with a Freeview version of their Australian TiVo box.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TiVo4UK

As you doubtless know, the Ozzie box is a twin-tuner Freeview PVR.










Also uses broadband to download EPG rather than over-the-air, and also can download movies, shopping, etc.

TiVo Australia

Please consider adding your name to the list, this would be a truly brilliant product to come to the UK, and TiVo have been missing for far too long!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TiVo4UK

Bix
http://media-itch.blogspot.com


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pointless and useless, but signed anyway  (My comment didn't show up though


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## bixbarton (Jan 2, 2004)

cwaring said:


> Pointless and useless, but signed anyway  (My comment didn't show up though


I'm staying positive Carl...

Positive thoughts

Give us new TiVo
Give us new TiVo
Give us new TiVo


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Anyone tried one over here yet? See if first stage works...channel scan.

An aussie colleague was supposed to be bringing one for me to play with, but cancelled his trip today


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Anyone tried one over here yet? See if first stage works...channel scan.
> 
> An aussie colleague was supposed to be bringing one for me to play with, but cancelled his trip today


I think we all very much hope your Aussie colleague will reinstate his planned trip over here some time soon and eagerly await your report on this Aussie HD Tivo once you have had a chance to play with it and/or try to force it to work in the UK.

Unless of course blindlemon manages to get his hands on an Aussie Tivo before you do.


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Signed - worth a go anyway.

I'd be very interested to know if an Aussie Tivo would do anything here.


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## gyre (Nov 22, 2003)

Signed. Just what I'm looking for.

-- gyre --


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## woody (Jan 26, 2002)

I've recently retired my tivo for a freeview PVR, mainly because of the twin tunner, but really do miss the functions of tivo. I'd buy a new freeview twin tuner tivo, phone line update or over the air would be fine.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

woody said:


> I've recently retired my tivo for a freeview PVR, mainly because of the twin tunner, but really do miss the functions of tivo. I'd buy a new freeview twin tuner tivo, phone line update or over the air would be fine.


Surely it would be much easier to stick with the Tivo and just pick up the odd recording clash from BBC Iplayer or 4OD etc.

Or am I not allowing for a family household where somebody wants to watch something live that is different from the program that is recording? In which case give the Tivo its own Freeview box and hook up a different one to the tv for live viewing.


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## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

woody said:


> I've recently retired my tivo for a freeview PVR, mainly because of the twin tunner, but really do miss the functions of tivo. I'd buy a new freeview twin tuner tivo, phone line update or over the air would be fine.


More satisfying to run a second TiVo, environmental concerns aside!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> More satisfying to run a second TiVo, environmental concerns aside!


For once britcub I find myself in agreement with you.


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## royfox (Apr 5, 2004)

Signed and commented..
Roy


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

I signed and tried to comment (I was trying to add "I've used TiVo ever since it began in the UK and I love it. It pees all over any other PVR ever made and I'd love to see it hit the big-time in the UK again!" and no comment's shown up! Is it because I didn't add a donation to Ipetitions?), and to cap it all it's added the vote twice. Oh well.

I have no environmental concerns. I didn't care five years ago before the government thought up a way to tax us to the hilt for no return, and I don't care now. And neither do they, even though they pretend to.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dvdfever said:


> I have no environmental concerns. I didn't care five years ago before the government thought up a way to tax us to the hilt for no return, and I don't care now. And neither do they, even though they pretend to.


The recent push for low energy light bulbs is largely due to New Labour's repeated failure to invest in the power network which means that there will start to be rolling power cuts in a year or two if things like light bulb power use do not go down to offset the greater power consumption from things like LCD/Plasma widescreens, more and more dishwashers and of course PVRs.

Its pretty obvious that sea levels have changed vastly in the past and everyone has coped but mankind has now adopted a lifestyle with numerous large cities by the water's edge that is completely incompatible with such radical change.

The main worry they have is not really about the icecaps melting and us all being flooded but about oil running out eventually and there being no affordable replacement. All the global warming stuff is designed to make the world's oil reserves last longer as the world's economy could completely implode when we run out of oil.


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## bixbarton (Jan 2, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> The recent push for low energy light bulbs is largely due to New Labour's repeated failure to invest in the power network which means that there will start to be rolling power cuts in a year or two if things like light bulb power use do not go down to offset the greater power consumption from things like LCD/Plasma widescreens, more and more dishwashers and of course PVRs.
> 
> Its pretty obvious that sea levels have changed vastly in the past and everyone has coped but mankind has now adopted a lifestyle with numerous large cities by the water's edge that is completely incompatible with such radical change.
> 
> The main worry they have is not really about the icecaps melting and us all being flooded but about oil running out eventually and there being no affordable replacement. All the global warming stuff is designed to make the world's oil reserves last longer as the world's economy could completely implode when we run out of oil.


To be honest it doesn't matter whether it's Labour or Conservative. They always make mistakes. Take the sub-prime problem. Thatcher started it all off by allowing people to buy their council houses. Labour compounded this by restricting council's money to repair council houses, so that the councils then sold them off to housing associations. Last year 1.8m council houses transferred into housing association control.

There is a direct correlation between availability of council housing and private property prices. If the number of council houses drops, the private property prices rise. There are 442 councils in the UK, last year 300 new councils houses were built. Not per council, total!

With not enough council homes, if you cannot afford to pay over the odds for private rental you end up taking a sub-prime mortgage of 125%. And of course Northern Rock were perfectly set up to offer those to you.

Oh and its was Thatcher to started the demutualisation of building societies into banks.

Northern Rock though are a unique case, as their business model was completely nuts.

Listen to these podcasts by Mark Thomas
http://www.markthomasinfo.com/section_audiovideo/

At the very least listen to the first one with Sargon Nissan. It's an eye, or should that be ear?, opener...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

bixbarton said:


> If you can't get a council house, but need a house you either go homeless or end up taking a sub-prime mortgage of 125%.


Isn't there also a private rented acommodation sector in this country then.



> Northern Rock though are a unique case, as their business model was completely nuts.


Probably little more nuts than Sir Fred Goodwin though, as his level of advanced megalomania clearly means he should have been certified long before he was able to sink the Royal Bank Of Scotland.


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## bixbarton (Jan 2, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Isn't there also a private rented acommodation sector in this country then.
> 
> Probably little more nuts than Sir Fred Goodwin though, as his level of advance megalomania clearly means he should have been certified long before he was able to sink the Royal Bank Of Scotland.


I was going to comment more, but its a little off-topic...


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## Faz (May 2, 2004)

Warm greetings Bix and fellow TiVo appreciation society members! 

First time in years I've visited this forum.. Only here via main site as I was about to call TiVo to cancel my sub as my brother's stopped using it for good few months now.... Wonder if they will offer me a free lifetime sub...??

Just signed as number 72:



> I have been paying the monthly £10 subscription since I bought my second hand unit almost 10 years, (£1,000!!!!) instead of the £199 lifetime option in the hope that a regular, sustained income would encourage TiVO to return to the UK.
> 
> I recently joined Sky with a Sky+ PVR and now truly appreciate what others have said about how much more superior the TiVo is!! Please, please bring back TiVo!!! I would consider it a premium PVR and willing to pay a premium price!!


Wow, I didn't realise I've paid over £1,000 in "support" and hope! But I still definitely DO NOT regret choosing against the lifetime option. Donated $2.00 to the iPetitions too.

But I AM still feeling dirty from joining Sky though, seriously!!

*Bring back TiVo! Please!!!*


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## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

bixbarton said:


> This was never sub prime, there was always equity in any property bought under this scheme. I thought it was wrong at the time, and still do considering things that have happened since, but the idea that this started the rot is piffle. Try the US Carter administration. Anyway, its really off topic, and I apologise, but couldn't let this go.


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> The main worry they have is not really about the icecaps melting and us all being flooded but about oil running out eventually and there being no affordable replacement. All the global warming stuff is designed to make the world's oil reserves last longer as the world's economy could completely implode when we run out of oil.


I wouldn't object to electric cars, if they were any good, but funny how Brown won't invest in making that a reality. Must be something to do with the £4bn kickback he gets from oil companies, and that he's a bit broke these days


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dvdfever said:


> I wouldn't object to electric cars, if they were any good, but funny how Brown won't invest in making that a reality. Must be something to do with the £4bn kickback he gets from oil companies, and that he's a bit broke these days


Electric cars all have hopeless range and also nearly as much carbon is burned to create the electricity.

The only long term hope are hyrdrogen cell cars but those seem to be a way off yet.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Probably little more nuts than Sir Fred Goodwin though, as his level of advanced megalomania clearly means he should have been certified long before he was able to sink the Royal Bank Of Scotland.


9 months of Sir Fred's pension pay is probably enough to get a new TiVo for the UK off the ground 

Admitedly it is the 'reward the risk-takers' system (government+FSA+banking/insurance system+credit rating system) that is to blame rather than simply the odd individual.

In a big company the guys who say 'look I've just saved you from enormous risks but cost you a million in losses by hedging' never get paid or listened to as much as the guys who say 'look I've made you a million profit now even though you might lose a few billion in a few years time as we will have retired and/or it will be someone else's problem then'.

Long range electric cars are close to production any day now. 200 mile range http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/23/ssc_pledges_ev_aero/
as opposed to the 125 mile ranges of standard electric cars.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cyril said:


> Long range electric cars are close to production any day now. 200 mile range http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/23/ssc_pledges_ev_aero/as opposed to the 125 mile ranges of standard electric cars.


Well the "125" mile theoretical range of electric cars turns out be about 30 in the real world so I presume these new cars will be good for about 65 miles before they need a charge then.

So still no use for my recent trip from one side of the USA to another in 9 days then


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Electric cars all have hopeless range and also nearly as much carbon is burned to create the electricity.
> 
> The only long term hope are hyrdrogen cell cars but those seem to be a way off yet.


Hydrogen isn't a fuel - it's a storage mechanism. You can't mine it, you have to make it. You can get it from processes such as electrolysis of water or extracting it from hydrocarbons - generally oil. Either way you use more energy than you get from burning the hydrogen. And unless you get your electricity for the electrolysis from hydroelectric you're causing pollution. You may as well cut out the middle step of making Hydrogen and power your car with hydroelectric electricity.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

BrianHughes said:


> Hydrogen isn't a fuel - it's a storage mechanism. You can't mine it, you have to make it. You can get it from processes such as electrolysis of water or extracting it from hydrocarbons - generally oil. Either way you use more energy than you get from burning the hydrogen. And unless you get your electricity for the electrolysis from hydroelectric you're causing pollution. You may as well cut out the middle step of making Hydrogen and power your car with hydroelectric electricity.


Correct....hydogen is an energy carrier not a fuel.

Here are some figures from http://www.withouthotair.com/ for energy (Kwh) consumption for 100 person kilometers (1 person 100kilometers or 100 people 1km).

Typical car 68KWh/100p-km
Electric car 15KWh/100p-km
Hydogen car 254KWh/100p-km
Electric train 1.6LWh/100p-km

So hydrogen car requires over 3 time the energy input.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ian_m said:


> Electric train 1.6*L*Wh/100p-km


Should this have been *K*Wh?

If so it seems like we should all be catching the train whenever possible.

If only that is this government didn't price the train so as to make it always non cost effective for any journey involving two or more people travelling to the same destination.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> this government didn't price the train so as to make it always non cost effective for any journey involving two or more people travelling to the same destination


I find it very depressing that the train companies constantly appear on various consumer programmes say 'If you book in advance, it will be much cheaper - it's only the pay-and-travel customers who pay the most'. Utter rubbish. I had three different train journeys to make recently to different places, which I knew about in advance. I checked prices at several providers at three months, two months, one month and the actual day(s) in advance. The price didn't vary one iota.

One helpful station employee said that they only do cheap deals on MPs routes.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Sorry - must apologise for thread drift. I will cease and desist.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> I find it very depressing that the train companies constantly appear on various consumer programmes say 'If you book in advance, it will be much cheaper - it's only the pay-and-travel customers who pay the most'. Utter rubbish.


Its only cheaper booking far in advance when travelling at off peak times and even then only when travelling long distance. It doesn't help booking in advance if you want to get to London before 9.30am and/or the journey is only in the local regional area (same price booking on day of travel even for off peak stuff).



> One helpful station employee said that they only do cheap deals on MPs routes.


Well there are 650 MPs representing every town and station in the UK so that sounds a rather implausible theory to me.


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## cleudo (Apr 7, 2002)

Ian_m said:


> Correct....hydogen is an energy carrier not a fuel.


You could argue that all 'fuels' are energy carriers.

oil-derived fuels such as petrol are mediums for carrying the energy of the sun stored from millions of years ago.

In fact - apart from nuclear power, our sun is the only energy source there is - everything else is a carrier of it's energy.

phew..


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## bryl (Apr 28, 2004)

Petition signed. Here's hoping the wait is not measured in geological time.


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## bixbarton (Jan 2, 2004)

Gentle reminder, the TiVo4UK petition is due to close this month.

128 signatures so far, please please sign it.

When it closes end of April, it gets emailed to the top nob at TiVo himself, Tom Rogers.

TiVo4UK


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Have to say this is the first I've heard of it  Not that it will do any good, 'specially with only 129 sigs. Still, points for trying


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## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

Why are we so apethetic these days? we (the brits) used to have a drive that made us the biggest force in the world, and now we just give in! Not just with Tivo, but with all the other people who are giving us grief. "All it takes for evil to prosper, is fo good men to do nothing"
And what are we doing?


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

As the 'How many TiVo users' thread is up to 415, a quarter of that number on the petition sounds quite good!

I don't really see the point of current TiVo users sending a petition like this. It's not like many are going to quit the service if nothing is done, is it? It's non-TiVo users that need to be convinced and that needs a sound business model not fanboi rantings.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Maybe I, Blindlemon and HealeyDave should publish sales figures to show how active the UK TiVo upgrading business still is ?


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## Gavin (Jan 1, 2003)

Long and short of it is IMHO It would be too little too late. We've a Humax Freesat HD PVR, it's not Tivo, it's nowhere near as userfriendly or intelligent, BUT, it's here, installed, running and recording HD, our Tivo is still on and working but it's days are probably numbered. Even with mode the quality is noticable lower than the SD from the PVR (probably as it records the transport stream not digitising the images)

Would I like a Tivo HD recorder, certainly, would I shell out &#163;300+ given we spent that on the Humax at the start of this year, no chance.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Why do you have two Petitions threads here for one petition and have also hijacked a third thread as well?

As I have said in the other threads IPetitions appear disreputable in being all about the so called "donation" (which they try to trick you in to believing you have to make and no doubt some users fall for this) and not sending a confirmation email to at least validate that you own the email address you have provided.

They also seem to allow multiple signatures from the same IP address using the same name and email address etc, etc, etc.

So along with the fact that Tivo will undoubtedly ignore only 200 signatures unfortunately this is unlikely to achieve your intended goal. Sorry but that's the honest truth of the matter.


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## djb2002 (May 1, 2006)

I've just signed the petition, but only 170 signatures is very poor.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> ...(which they try to trick you in to believing you have to make and no doubt some users fall for this)...


Given that it clearly states you DO NOT have to donate, then I would say there is nothing to "fall for" and anyone who donates when they don't have to deserves to lose the money.


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## ALanJay (Jun 14, 2000)

mikerr said:


> Anyone tried one over here yet? See if first stage works...channel scan.
> 
> An aussie colleague was supposed to be bringing one for me to play with, but cancelled his trip today


It would be very interesting to see if it worked in the UK - australia uses DVB but there are some differences but it would definately be interesting to see if it worked.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Not interested in Freeview.

Freesat maybe, but it would have to be an HD box and Freesat needs to carry a lot more HD channels. Still I would miss many of the channels on Sky though.

It's a non-starter. How many would potentially sign? At most all the people who are aware of what TiVo is, which in total would be too little to justify a UK investment. It would be far less than that.

Far better to approach Freeview/Freesat PVR manufacturers and attempt to convince them why TiVo is great.

But is it even possible to have the TiVo EPG on the Freeview/Freesat platforms? The licencing I'm sure will require the platform EPG, not TiVo. So really you want to campaign Freeview or Freesat to change their EPG to TiVo, but that wouldn't be compatible with the majority of boxes out there.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

The TiVo EPG comes from outside (your home network or phone connection), so all it has to do is tune programming.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

What I mean is that for a manufacturer to sell a product under the Freeview or Freesat licence/logo, they'll will likely be required to carry the Freeview/Freesat EPG, not TiVos.

By EPG I mean the whole user interface, not the guide data. i.e. Freeview/Freesat will want their software and user interface on the boxes, not TiVo.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

DeadKenny said:


> What I mean is that for a manufacturer to sell a product under the Freeview or Freesat licence/logo, they'll will likely be required to carry the Freeview/Freesat EPG, not TiVos.
> 
> By EPG I mean the whole user interface, not the guide data. i.e. Freeview/Freesat will want their software and user interface on the boxes, not TiVo.


No that's completely wrong in the case of Freeview. There is no Freeview software.

Freeview is just a marketing coalition between the program broadcasters and the people who make the boxes and the only commonality is being able to access the basic data in the Freeview EPG which follows a certain data format (regularly enhance to add new items that newer boxes can understand).

A Freeview Tivo would use that data as a minimum (if you don't subscribe) but then also obtain enhanced data from Tivo's servers by attaching it to your router wirelessly or with a cable.

Similarly Freesat work like Freeview and allows each manufacture to vary the user interface and simply provide some common channel numbers and basic EPG data they can all use.

Neither Freeview or Freesat require each manufacturer to provide an identikit user interface like Sky does. You seem to be labouring under rather a major misapprehension here about the nature of the Freeview and Freesat broadcasting platforms.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Guess you're right. Just must be that from my experience of Freeview and other boxes I've seen the interface looks identical. Freesat I don't know.

I see there is a Freeview+ spec for PVRs which add a few more requirements. Most seem normal for a PVR though there's one about recording split programmes as one (I guess that's where you have a two part back to back or a film spread over the news etc), and also the need to have accurate recording if scheduling changes. Can TiVo cope with this in it's design, especially if it's feeding of Tribune listings rather than Freeview's EPG data. Or if it uses's Freeview's, is there enough meta data to feed TiVo's features to the full?

But regardless, it's still pointless. Even if we all sign petitions like this, it's still far too few to make a difference. We'd need 10s of thousands to make it worthwhile a UK investment, not a few hundred. There just aren't that many of us.

And as I say, I'm not really interested in Freeview/Freesat anyway. I'm on the verge now of going Sky HD as it being my only real choice to get the HD content I want (without illegal downloads).


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