# Need suggestions for OTA setup



## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

I currently have my TiVo thru DirecTV and have decided I am tired of paying $126/month for 100s of channels I don't watch. I have a season pass setup for 3-4 shows that are on local TV. I have Showtime, but I rarely watch that any more. I recently joined Netflix. I like TiVo's search capability to look for shows or movies I may want to watch. I usually record shows and watch them later. Only thing I watch real time are sports (although I am not a major sports fan.)

I live in a rural area - my only options for TV are DirecTV and Dish. My house is for sale, but has not sold yet (it could take awhile.)

I am thinking about an OTA setup. I have not yet bought a digital antenna but am planning on it.

I will need help with wiring setup as I am generally clueless on wiring and the specific technology needed. The person I will likely call will suggest different brands, etc. so I would rather have what I want (TiVo) specifically defined.

*Current setup:*

I live 50-60 miles from the city where I would like to pick up local channels (also where I intend to move.) I checked antennapoint.com  the main 5 channels are between 52-60 miles from me (exact address on this side doesn't recognize my house - I am about 5 miles north of where my zipcode is centered):

WMTV
NBC	19	15.1	UHF	56.0 kW	Madison	52.10 mi	205.88°

WKOW-TV
ABC	26	27.1	UHF	400.0 kW	Madison	52.89 mi	208.42°

WHA-TV
PBS	20	21.1	UHF	100.0 kW	Madison	52.89 mi	208.42°

WMSN-TV
FOX	49	47.1	UHF	280.0 kW	Madison	52.89 mi	208.42°

WISC-TV
CBS	50	3.1	UHF	603.0 kW	Madison	52.89 mi	208.42°

The dish outside is on my garage roof, which does not have a direct line of sight towards Madison, my 2nd story may be in the way (although  maybe its not as bad as I think.) I dont care for the large branch type of antennas (I am concerned about aesthetics since my house is for sale.)

I have a wired/wireless router in my office (other side of main room wall) - speed is 10MB

Main room: Samsung UN50EH6000F (May 2012)
I have the TiVo plugged into the satellite wall connection. I watch everything thru the DirecTV TiVo box. The info on my TV said I have ATSC/Clear QAM.

Bedroom TV: Dynex LCD TV DX-L26-10A (March 2009)
I have a 2nd DirecTV receiver (not TiVo) for this TV, also a satellite wall connection. The attic where the antenna would need to go is above my bedroom closet on the 2nd floor. I would need wiring connected there to the current wiring.

New setup:

I probably need the Mohu - SKY 60 Outdoor/Attic Amplified Multidirectional HDTV Antenna  or something similar. I have an attic where it can be directed appropriately.

I want the above 5 channels available with good quality display. I dont know what the WMTV 56.0 kW implies  weaker signal?

The TiVo Roamio OTA for $49.99 seems to be a good deal to me. The $15/month fee is fine. (Even with the $8/mth Netflix fee  it still beats $126/mth by a lot!)

I need something to connect my bedroom TV. TiVo Mini  or anything cheaper than $150?

I do not need to share/watch anything on my phone.

Thank you for all suggestions!


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

Since no one has jumped in, I will suggest dropping a few bucks on a rabbit ears and hooking it up to a tv and see how you do. 

This will also bump the thread for more suggestions.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I am really big on antenna TV ( I haven't had anything else for over 30 years ) , but I don't know if I would bother with it until you move, except if the money thing is critical. But agree that you could just try buying a TV set top antenna from the thrift store and see what you get as far as stations and reception. I have found that reception with antenna comes and goes, and I live in metro Denver. I use all TV set top antennas, but can see with your distance from the antennas you might need more.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

Omni directional antennas tend to not provide the best gain. I suggest before you invest in something you don't really need check out http:// www.antennapoint.com/ then if all channels are generally same direction look to https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/home.php?mobile=N&cat=0 at 60 miles I'd recommend the "clearstream 4". I have a clearstream 4 and a clearstream 5 (for the two vhf channels in my area.


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

Thanks for your responses. I could try the rabbit ears. If they don't work well, then I can ask the wiring guy what others do around this area.

As for the TiVo mini - do you think this is a good way to go? Anything cheaper?

(Unfortunately, I don't know if my house will sell this coming year. I am in a rural resort area. The housing market here is not like it used to be. I had it on the market for 15 months and only had 1 buyer who looked at it. I decided to end the contract with that realtor and take the holidays off. I plan on going with a different realtor next Feb-Mar. The monthly savings may be for some time.)


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

PCurry57,

The antenna information I listed above is from antennapoint.com. They are all in the same direction. I will check out the clearstream antennas.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Ask your neighbors, maybe one of them has figured it out. I am not an expert but I recently spent quite a bit of time and money on antennas.

Rabbit ears $10 plus an indoor amp RCA AMP1450F, $16, is good place to start. Do not buy a one piece combination amp and antenna, it is easier to point/locate an antenna without an amp. 

UHF is a loop or bowtie antenna. Radioshack has one on sale for $19, DTV2BUHF, ship to store. At that price, it is worth a try. More Expensive is Not necessarily better, my Mofu Leaf 50 is in the ewaste pile, it did Not work any better than Any of the small antennas, just cost a ridiculous amount. While I am close to the towers here, sometimes heavy truck traffic was a problem, I am now using an "large branch type" Outdoor antenna Indoors, an antennacraft hbu22, $33, radioshack, ship to store. Works great and it fits nicely in my inside hallway, though I have not fully extended it. 

If it is in the attic, aesthetics should not be much of a problem. Buy the biggest cheap one that fits.


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

My neighbors all have DirecTV or Dish. I checked out the guy's website that does wiring around here - he heavily pushes Dish. Not sure I'd trust his opinion. 

I know zero about wiring. I still need wiring to link the antenna/amp in with the rest of the house?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Almost everything about antenna is trial and error. But I am pretty sure the largest antenna will probably have the best reception. Amps are fairly cheap.

Hold off on the Tivo for now. Try going supercheap first, rabbit ears and small amp hooked to one of the TV's, see what happens. You can do that yourself very cheaply and easily.

How are you getting 10mbps ? Is that a phone line or coax or ? Is the house wired for that ?

And look up Roamio MOCA (Multimedia over Coax), I am not sure what that is all about and if it would work over an antenna set up. 

After that you will need the cable guy. To disconnect the sat and connect the antenna to the existing wiring. Maybe that is easy, maybe it is not.


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

jth tv said:


> Almost everything about antenna is trial and error. But I am pretty sure the largest antenna will probably have the best reception. Amps are fairly cheap.
> 
> Hold off on the Tivo for now. Try going supercheap first, rabbit ears and small amp hooked to one of the TV's, see what happens. You can do that yourself very cheaply and easily.
> 
> ...


My great room and all bedrooms have the coax cable outlet. I only have the DirecTV hardware linked in my great room and the master bedroom upstairs.

My internet service is CenturyLink - a phone line. They just upgraded the speed in the area to 10 mbps. I think the only cabling I would need is the link from the antenna in attic to the existing cabling.


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

Also:

I use one of the main floor bedrooms as my office. This is where I have the wired/wireless router. The router cabling is on the opposite wall than where the coax cable is in that room. 

I watched a movie using my laptop wirelessly and an HDMI cable this weekend and I felt the quality was fine.

I don't know that I would want to somehow link the ethernet to my coax cabling since I intend to sell this year (crossing my fingers!). I'd rather let the buyers determine what they want. Unless you think that changing that wiring is cheaper than just the antenna link?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

I don't use a Mini but I know it Has to have a wired connection to the Roamio. I am not sure if it can be done in your situation, have the antenna and the Roamio and the mini use the same coax. Maybe start a new topic, say Connecting a Roamio OTA via antenna's coax to a Mini. Ask if anyone has actually done it.


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## bgw45 (Dec 1, 2014)

Here is the process I used. I temporarily unhooked the coax from the Direct splitter in my attic and hooked up two twelve inch aligator clips ( one to the ground and one to the center tap ). This served as a temp antennae. At the TV I moved the coax on my Direct receiver to the Ant input on my TV. Performed a channel scan on my TV. It gave me 42 channels in the DFW area.

Now that I knew what I could get OTA my decision was easier. YMMV


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

At 50-60 miles out, I would not be optimistic about rabbit ears. You are going to need an antenna with a lot of gain and may even have to add an amplifier. This could be why all your neighbors have DBS because pulling in all the OTA's could be very challenging, and this is why CATV (Cable TV) was introduced many decades ago: to bring in local stations to people who were far away from the transmitters or had obstructions preventing either reliable or any reception at all of ALL their entitled OTA's.

Things get even more complicated if your OTA transmitters are not in one place or are significantly positioned such that you may need a motorized mount so that you can receive a particular channel by physically moving that antenna to receive that station. I'm not sure how that works when an OTA DVR is set to record two different channels that have transmitters placed to far from each other to receive both channels simultaneously or if then next recording requires a channel than needs the antenna to change position, but no one is home to do it. However, you can use a 2nd antenna for some other transmitters if they don't interfere with each other.

I've found the omni-directionals to pull in some stations well, but others not so well or unreliably compared to more directional antennas and this is why some people have motorized mounts or 2 antennas. Yes, lots of research to do, but the research will save you money by not poking around in the dark.


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

I've had an antenna with the Tivo HD, Premiere and now the Roamio. The Roamio has had the best tuner so far for me. The Tivo HD second and the Premieres tuner was one of the worst Ive used. Every situation is very different when it comes to antennas. I have an 8 bay UHF antenna with a VHF combined on a preamp on my roof. You will always do better with a roof mount. If you cant or dont want to mount one on the roof for aesthetic reasons an attic would be the second place to locate it. I wouldnt bother with a set top antenna at 50+ miles - you will be disappointed. You need a lot more gain than an omnidirectional antenna can provide. You have a few things going for you if the channels youve listed are all you are looking for. They are all UHF and all around the same compass setting. This is good because if you are using a DVR it would be challenging to use a rotor. Using two antennas requires a bit more knowledge - The two antennas must be phase-matched. This means that the two signals must arrive at the combiner in phase. You do this by maintaining symmetry in the feed system. In other words, the wires for each antenna should be identical in type and length. This is the UHF antenna I have and have been happy with it. I am pulling stations from over 50 miles with it. I would point this antenna at 208 degrees you should be good. http://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Signal...p/B00CX6UJ5K/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

A better place for advice would be at the tvfool forums. 
http://forum.tvfool.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

They ask you to add your location here and post the results.
http://tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29
This will help give the most accurate recommendation for your specific situation.


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

Update:
I have cut the cord with DirecTV! 

I bought a digital HD antenna that I just hooked up to my TV in my main room (not on the ideal side of the house in relation to the TV antennas I am looking for.) It did not work. I tried it my bedroom (right side of house), still didn't work. Returned it.

I assessed what I actually want to watch. There isn't anything I can't get off Amazon Prime or Vudu - other than football games. Not many of those left. Assuming we get in the playoffs, I can go to a friend's house or a bar. This is fine for the next 6 months. I hope I sell and will then be in the larger city where I can pick up antenna.

I bought the TiVo Roamio OTA ($50) and a Roku streaming stick ($40). Roku is in my bedroom - works great. I get PBS shows for free. Otherwise, I am watching Netflix.

I will setup my TiVo OTA this weekend. I will update my viewing experience with that soon.


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## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

I'm confused why you bought TiVo if you don't get any stations (at least not with the antenna you tried). You can buy it at any time and now you are spending 15 a month for no reason. If I where you I would get a good directional outdoor antenna and maybe a pre-amp and mount it using the existing dish mount. Just take down the dish. Should only take a few minutes. Probably your best chance of pulling in stations. This is what I did when I ditched directv for OTA. You can that way just re-use the existing coax wiring. Additionally you can run both Moca and OTA on the same coax. If you do get stations then get a mini plus a pair of Moca adapters for the bedroom setup. I have a similar setup that works terrific. If you can't get any stations then just return the TiVo for now and use streaming boxes and re-assess when you move.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

nikog said:


> Update:
> I have cut the cord with DirecTV!
> 
> I bought a digital HD antenna that I just hooked up to my TV in my main room (not on the ideal side of the house in relation to the TV antennas I am looking for.) It did not work. I tried it my bedroom (right side of house), still didn't work. Returned it.
> ...


Simple antennas work well to 10 - 15 miles. At nearly 60 miles, you are going to need "quite an antenna" on a mast.

Don't know what shows you like. If you add Livestream app to Roku, you can pick up some news stations which stream, the History Channel app will let you watch a few of their shows without validation (cable or satellite credentials). With Hulu Plus (fee), you could watch many network shows the next day; might take the edge off; that works on either Tivo or Roku.


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## phone man (Nov 4, 2011)

I agree with the poster who asked why you're going to set up an OTA system when you're trying to sell the house. That aside, at 52 miles out there are a lot of variables in how that signal arrives at your antenna. I suggest going to tvfool.com and plugging in your address info. You'll get a lot more detailed info than the source you mentioned. You WILL need an large antenna outside above the roofline, not in the attic. It appears all your desired stations are UHF so something like a Channel Master 4228-HD would be ideal. This is a panel style antenna not the long yagi type you said you didn't want. You are fortunate all your stations are within just a few degrees of each other. No worries about having to use a rotator or multiple antennas. If you can place your antenna so you have a clear shot at 205-208 degrees with no tall objects like trees buildings etc for at least 400ft, you should be able to pick up the stations you listed. 
You also need to know exactly what kind of cabling and hardware is between your antenna and your TV. RG6 coax is best. Quad shield is not necessary. You need quality connectors and they need to be properly installed. Don't bother with twist on connectors. Compression fittings are best, crimp on are OK. How many TV's are you connecting? The fewer splitters the better. You lose at least half the available signal with every splitter. A single uninterrupted run of coax from the antenna to the TV is best but if you have to add splitters or couplers do so carefully. One mistake in the signal chain will ruin it. Make sure all Dish devices and distribution equipment is removed if you intend to reuse an existing run of coax.
Good luck!


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## gfgray (Mar 14, 2004)

I agree with Troasti. This is the wrong forum to ask about television reception. If your channels are all UHF you ARE lucky. Here is another 8-bay bowtie antenna that should work. If attic mounting doesn't do it, you will have to mount on the roof. Your distance from transmitters could be challenging, but not insurmountable.

CM-4228HD Channel Master 8-bay bowtie antenna

CM-7777 Channel Master high gain VHF/UHF amp

DS-3000 Winegard J-Mount (I am not 100% sure the 4228 will fit on this. You could try mounting the j-mount upside down. Or you could hang the antenna from a nail)

CM-6004 Channel Master 4-port MOCA adapter (attach this to your router and to any coax port and your Mini will be connected to your network through your existing coax wiring)

Edit - +1 for Phone Man's advice


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## nikog (Nov 30, 2014)

The post started hoping there would be a fairly easy antenna setup. There wasn't one and after assessing what I do watch, I can live without for a few months.

My house should be back on the market by Feb 1. I am not going to put up a large antenna. I did buy the OTA knowing that antenna piece won't work. The upfront cost is very affordable and will work for my purposes for the time being. $15/mth is not going to break me. I am really hoping that I sell my house in the next few months and the TiVo will come with me and I will have an antenna there. I really want to leave this area as soon as possible - I am considering renting in the larger city until I sell. As for my Roku streaming stick, I have already encountered some issues with it. Netflix isn't working anymore, which is what I mainly watch. I will be curious if I encounter the same issues with my TiVo (hope not).


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