# Who is having spontaneous reboot with Elite?



## nandopr

Hello everyone!

I have two new Premiere Elite. They are both getting "spontaneous reboot". Sometimes I am on bed at night and I hear the Elite fan spinning very fast and then slowing down. (I know the pattern, it is rebooting).

My old Premiere did not have this problem.

Also, sometimes when I change to a SDV channel I have to press "select" several times before I tune in into the channel.

Maybe is software related but I know I am in the minority. Most folks are not having problem at all.


Cable diagnostics shows:

Signal Strength 92
SNR 37db

The same for both Premiere Elite.

I know that the cable company installed an amplifier long time ago. I am planning of getting rid of the amplifier. Just to test it.

The signal strength without the amplifier is about 83 or 85.

Will my Elite work well with 83 or 85 signal strength?

Curios about other people with the same issue. I did search the forum, but would like some updated comments and information.

Thank you


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## djwilso

I had reboots the first week with the Elite while doing a lot of transfers from my S3.

Since then, the reboots have ceased. I hope it stays that way...


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## andyf

I assume I get a reboot every few days. I come home and all menu bar positions have been reset. It's never happened while I'm home.


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## nandopr

I hope this will not affect my recordings. I hope it will go away eventually. 

Thank you for the information.


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## innocentfreak

AFAIK I haven't had a reboot other than the one time I tried to transfer multiple items through TiVo Desktop.


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## jfh3

Yes, this is a know problem with the Elite and the current software level.

Please make sure you are reporting these to Tivo when you see them. They can enable some extra logging as necessary.

See the thread in my sig (especially first post) for other known issues.


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## nandopr

jfh3 said:


> Yes, this is a know problem with the Elite and the current software level.
> 
> Please make sure you are reporting these to Tivo when you see them. They can enable some extra logging as necessary.
> 
> See the thread in my sig (especially first post) for other known issues.


Thank you Jfh3.


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## seakurt

Mine JUST had another reboot while I was watching a recorded program and recording on 1 tuner. This is the second or third spontaneous reboot (that I know of) in a week. Twice now when I was recording so getting two separate files for a program with several minutes missing. 

I read somewhere that it might be happening if you are using the SD menus -- I was, but just switched back. Anyone have an opinion on that?

Thanks!


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## PrimeRisk

I'm using HD menus and I'm getting the spontaneous reboots...including just a few minutes ago. The Mrs. and I were watching a show and it just locked up about 20 minutes in; two other things were recording. After being frozen for about 30 seconds it rebooted. I've searched back through shows and I'm finding the occasional partials. Hopefully the patch is coming soon.


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## todd_j_derr

I've only had my Elite less than a week. I had it reboot on me a couple times while using the menus but just now it rebooted although I hadn't pressed a key in probably 2 hours. I looked up when the sound stopped, the picture froze for a couple seconds and then it rebooted.

I have HDUI enabled but I was just watching TV (full screen). Nothing was being recorded. I haven't done any transfers, and I don't have a TA. I use wired ethernet. I do have a slider remote and the BT dongle.

Definitely disturbing. Is there any way to look at logs like on the S1?


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## todd_j_derr

Ok, it just rebooted again, this time I was deleting messages and it hung for a few minutes then rebooted.

I also got a response back from Tivo saying the problem could be due to the signal which I have to say sounds like a complete load of crap to me even if there is some kind of signal problem - which I doubt considering I've had a Moxi connected to the same cable for 1.5 years and a Motorola box before that and never had an issue.

Regardless, my signal strength and SNR seem to be within their limits, signal is 86-92 depending on the channel and SNR is 34-36 which is at the high end of the range (really though, not enough noise is allegedly a "problem"?). I have a ton of RS uncorrectable and correctable on all 4 tuners but I'm suspicious of those numbers because they are not incrementing at all and I am having zero video problems.

I rebooted twice, well, the one time it rebooted itself and the other time I pulled the power. I tuned to 4 different channels, and if I go look at those values the "uncorrected" has been high, in the 4000-6000 range. Corrected is either pretty low like 20 or high like 500ish. But, 10 minutes later if I check again the values are identical, they are not incrementing at all. They did all change across the (cold) reboot though.

So, I don't know... I'm actually getting to like the Tivo but random rebooting is completely unacceptable, especially when you get answers like this from support that don't inspire much confidence.


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## aaronwt

I had mine reboot last night, but I was messing around with how many HD streams I could get it to read and write. I had it reading and writing eight HD streams concurrently without issue, but then I tried accessing it from another premiere and tried to initiate a transfer to make it do nine concurrent HD streams.

That caused a reboot, and then it seemed unstable for a while since it would boot up and it seemed to try and continue all the streams and recordings I was doing concurrently. 

It rebooted three times. When I stopped that box from trying to transfer a ninth HD stream it stopped rebooting and has been fine since then.

I won't be trying that again, anytime soon.


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## nandopr

If this is a software bug related issue I hope that Tivo will fix it eventually.

I remember when I got the Premiere some time ago I was having some problems. Then after a couple of software upgrades my Tivo was stable.

My SNR is close to todd_j_derr. Signal is around 93.


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## tvhank

I've had reboots the first two weeks I got the Premiere Elite. I really tried to narrow down what could be causing the problem but it seems random. I've had it when I was watching a show, watching live TV or when I am transferring a show from another Tivo. I've even had it happen when I just finished a show and left it sitting on "My Shows" screen while I was doing something else. I thought at one time it seem to happen about 30minutes - 2hours after I forced a connection until it rebooted without me forcing a connection. Knock on wood, but it hasn't happen to me for a couple of weeks now.

I let Tivo know about the problem but of course they are blaming on either too strong of a signal, unclean electricity, bad MCard, etc. I just don't think it's any of that since the Elite replaced my old THD and is using all the same cables and cards and electricity. Hopefully the reboot never happens when I'm recording something.


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## baleog6263

I've had mine installed for about 18 hours now... 4 reboots that I know of.
Once during guided setup before I even installed the cable card or connected the coax, once while recording a show/navigating the main menu, once while just watching live TV, and once watching a movie on Netflix.

Support tried to blame an invalid video signal... I told them I disagree since it happened before I had anything connected, so they had me move to another power outlet. I highly doubt it's a power issue since I haven't had any problems with the other devices on the surge protector I was using (including my S3) but I'm willing to play along just to rule it out.


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## Tivogre

I'm having spontaneous reboots about every day and a half on one Elite. 

The other one has not spontaneously rebooted (that I know of) but it is watched much less frequently. 

My Premiere and 2 Hd units are as stable as always.


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## gpejsa

Got another spontaneous reboot today...happened while I was away for 10 minutes and came back to see my football game was no longer on (and the tivo startup screen was present). I'd say this is about the 6th reboot I've observed in the 3 weeks (approx) I have had the device....


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## todd_j_derr

Now they want me to do some goofy procedure where I'm supposed to remove the cablecard, and disconnect the cable and ethernet and see if it crashes. I bet if I remove the power cord as well it would be practically guaranteed not to crash, and just as useful to me as with everything else disconnected. Seriously, I'm supposed to leave it like that for how long in order to "prove" something? I mean, it hasn't crashed now in 2 days AFAIK, so I guess it would have to be longer than that.

Do they realize the sheer ridiculousness of that suggestion? Do I get these "idle" days added to my 30 day trial? It's a shame because I think aside from this issue I'm on the "keep it" side of the fence, but it's going to be hard to accept random reboots.


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## djwilso

Just had my first random reboot with my Elite in over a week of uptime. Not happy... :down:

Before now, I had 3 or 4 reboots in the first week, then nothing until now.


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## ADG

Hooked up my Elite on October 13th and had my first reboot last night. It occurred at approximately 10:15PM while I was watching USA HD and recording another show. My cable system is Cablevision and the signal strength rarely if ever goes below 95-96%


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## tivoknucklehead

Rebooted when I was viewing a photobucket album and hit the TiVo button


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## rrg

Happened to me this evening. Was watching a recorded show; Elite was recording programs on two tuners at the same time. Playback of recorded show froze and a few seconds later the Elite rebooted (thus spoiling the new recording). I suspect that there have been other reboots because several times I've found the menus in default positions (usually a telltale that there's been a reboot) but this time I caught it in the act of rebooting.

Around the same time, a problem that I previously reported in another thread, in which Season Passes abruptly became corrupted (channel numbers changed to a non-existent channel), recurred. Channel number "303" replaced the correct channel number on the first ten or so of the Season Passes in my list (last time it was channel "234").

Add to this another problem that I've seen multiple times, in which HDMI audio disappears until the unit is rebooted, and I've had enough of the Elite for now. As nice as this unit is in principle it's still too buggy to be reliable. I can't trust it and thus I can't use it to replace the Series 3 units that it was supposed to replace.

I'm still within the 30-day window for Best Buy returns as well as for a return on the Lifetime Service plan from TiVo. I'm going to return the Elite and revisit the idea in a few months when (perhaps) things have improved.


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## deathpulse

I haven't noticed any re-boots in the past few weeks - how do you all determine if it reboots?


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## aaronwt

All four tuners should be on the same channel. Assuming you haven't had a bunch of recordings scheduled since the reboot. For me fortunately my reboots have been when I was messing around with stuff. Like trying to get a 9th HD stream going, or the Amazon VOD bug during TiVo search, when Huku plus wasn't working or when I was moving my BT adapter around. Otherwise for me in normal use it has been fine. Going to Hulu Plus, Netflix, Amazon, recording four things etc has been fine.

Edit: I also had a reboot doing four recordings, transfers and trying a transfer with TiVo Desktop. They definitely have some bugs to work out, but for me, with normal use, The Elite is reliable enough for me to use it exclusively in my main viewing area. I've still had my two, 2 tuner Premieres recording but I haven't watched them in a couple of weeks. So now it's time to unplug them and put them up for sale.


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## tivoknucklehead

Premiere XL rebooted on its own Sunday night and I was not watching it. I noticed this morning when I saw the THX sign and saw that Homeland did not record. they need to fix this soon


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## MC Hammer

tivoknucklehead said:


> Premiere XL rebooted on its own Sunday night and I was not watching it. I noticed this morning when I saw the THX sign and saw that Homeland did not record. they need to fix this soon


Have you checked your signal values in DVR Diagnostics? Also, this thread is specifically related to Elite units, not Premiere's/Premiere XLs.


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## tivoknucklehead

MC Hammer said:


> Have you checked your signal values in DVR Diagnostics? Also, this thread is specifically related to Elite units, not Premiere's/Premiere XLs.


85 on my elite, 75 on my XL premiere. Is this not good enough?


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## dlfl

Tivo HD user here.... but one thing to consider is HDMI lockups, which can be caused by defects in the device at either end of the cable -- or by a bad cable.

I was experiencing frequent lockups/reboots with HDMI a year ago. I switched to component and haven't had a spontaneous lockup/reboot since. (Netflix caused some until the last Series 3 software update to 11.0k.) My TV does HDMI fine with my DVD player and my Logitech Revue, so I blame it on the TiVo HDMI interface.

It's irksome to me, and I'm sure will be unaccepable to others, to not be able to use HDMI. However, I'm just suggesting this as a diagnostic idea -- see if HDMI is the culprit by not using it for a while. If HDMI is the problem, the first thing to try is a new HDMI cable.


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## aaronwt

tivoknucklehead said:


> 85 on my elite, 75 on my XL premiere. Is this not good enough?


This should be more than good enough. I have some channels with a signal level of 70. They seem to vary on my FiOS connection between 70 and 95. But either way they don't seem to cause any issues.


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## seakurt

Two more reboots today. Once when nothing was recording. Might have coincided with the scheduled update. The second about 8:10 PM Pacific. Daily Show and Terra Nova were recording and I was watching The Daily Show delayed. Wasn't touching the remote when it happened.

I'm still within 30 days... if I don't see a software update or some acknowledgement of this issue by TiVo I'm going to return the whole mess and go back to my HD. Between the box and the lifetime it's just too much money for this to be happening.

Is anyone experiencing this using the HDMI cable that came with the box? Thinking of maybe swapping that out with a new one.


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## deathpulse

I should have mentioned - I haven't seen any reboots (not really been looking though) and I am NOT using the HDMI cable that came with the Tivo. I am using a higher quality cable to my Onkyo NR5009. The NR5009 feeds to an Optoma HD 80 projector. Not sure if any of that maters. TV and Internet are via Verizon FIOS (tops out at 50 up 50 down).


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## nandopr

seakurt said:


> Is anyone experiencing this using the HDMI cable that came with the box? Thinking of maybe swapping that out with a new one.


I am using a good quality HS HDMI cable. Not the one that came with the box. So I suppose is not related to the cable. Of course, I could be wrong.


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## ADG

When I spoke with a tivo tech support person on the phone yesterday about the spontaneous reboot issue I asked if they could enable logging on my system. He said they do not have that capability. He also said tivo reps are told to stay away from this and other community forums. Last, he said they have not had many phone calls about the spontaneous reboot issue. I suggest you folks start calling.


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## cctraveler

Have the same issue with my 2 TIVO Premier's. Contacted TIVO support and they said to check the RS corrected and uncorrected values, as well as, the SNR via the DVR Diagnostics. Then sent me link http:support.tivo.com.app/answers/detail/a_id/150

Bottom line is like says that if RS has values in it then there is a cable problem. Need to change cable and/or call cable company to check cable to unit. Guess it could also be the cable card? Haven't tried any of these yet


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## djwilso

So if the signal isn't perfect, the unit will reboot?

I have to say that is pretty weak... I would be ashamed to put my name on such a design.


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## tvhank

djwilso said:


> So if the signal isn't perfect, the unit will reboot?
> 
> I have to say that is pretty weak... I would be ashamed to put my name on such a design.


So very true. The THD never rebooted with "nonperfect" signal. In point of fact, my Elite is using the exact same coax connection of my THD since the Elite replaced it in my house. I told Tivo I'm willing to help them troubleshoot the problem but please stop with the ridiculous responses.


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## innocentfreak

I swear there were reports in the early Premiere threads of people having reboots due to signal issues also. I wonder if it is something that needs to be tweaked for the Elite.


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## aaronwt

I took a close look at my corrected and uncorrected errors on my Elite. Apparently when I first change to a channel, I get a bunch of uncorrected errors. I base this on checking after changing to four different channels. There was always an uncorrected error number in the thousands, but half an hour later that number will not have increased. And this is irregardless of signal strength or SNR. The SNR ranged from 33 to 38 depending on the channel with most between 36 and 38.
With my Two tuner boxes the uncorrected errors are typically zero. Except for a few channels that have lower signal strength. And those will have corrected errors as well.


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## djwilso

aaronwt said:


> I took a close look at my corrected and uncorrected errors on my Elite. Apparently when I first change to a channel, I get a bunch of uncorrected errors. I base this on checking after changing to four different channels. There was always an uncorrected error number in the thousands, but half an hour later that number will not have increased. And this is irregardless of signal strength or SNR. The SNR ranged from 33 to 38 depending on the channel with most between 36 and 38.
> With my Two tuner boxes the uncorrected errors are typically zero. Except for a few channels that have lower signal strength. And those will have corrected errors as well.


This pretty much mirrors what I'm seeing. SNR is in the 35ish range and signal strengths are between 88 and 92.

RS Uncorrected is about 4,800 on all tuners where RS Corrected is around 15-60.

Once tuned, the RS values are not increasing and appear constant.

I looked on my Series 3 and the RS numbers on both tuners are 0, and used to be 0 when connected to the very same coax that the Elite is now connected to.


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## L David Matheny

aaronwt said:


> I took a close look at my corrected and uncorrected errors on my Elite. Apparently when I first change to a channel, I get a bunch of uncorrected errors. I base this on checking after changing to four different channels. There was always an uncorrected error number in the thousands, but half an hour later that number will not have increased. And this is irregardless of signal strength or SNR. The SNR ranged from 33 to 38 depending on the channel with most between 36 and 38.
> With my Two tuner boxes the uncorrected errors are typically zero. Except for a few channels that have lower signal strength. And those will have corrected errors as well.


What drive are you using? I noticed that early on with my Premiere. It seemed to occur less after I upgraded to a 2TB drive which also happened to have 32MB of cache instead of the 8MB on the stock 320GB drive. I speculated that the TiVo software isn't prioritizing very well, which allows housekeeping associated with channel changing (and probably other things) to sometimes shut out essential code that services the tuner data buffers, which causes breaks in the data stream that finally makes it to disk.

Now it strikes me that my original explanation was confused. Disk buffering errors might cause playback glitches due to a channel change, but surely the diagnostic error counts are done by the tuner chip or (more likely) the demodulator chip. I would hope that the processor isn't involved in moving data between those chips, but maybe the demodulator counts an error if its output buffer overflows. That could be a different manifestation of the known problem of poor multithreading, but it shouldn't have any direct connection with disk caching. Does anybody know more about how this circuitry operates? I'm getting confused again.

Edit: It _could_ be related to drive cache size. If the cache is full the drive would make the processor wait before accepting another write.


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## aaronwt

I looked at a stock Premiere, a 2TB upgraded one, and a 1 TB upgraded one. They all had the same zero uncorrected errors. Except on the low signal strength/low SNR channels. I don't remember what model drives that I got from DVR_DUDE.


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## David_SG

Well after about 3 weeks of smooth sailing, I had my first spontaneous reboot the other night. First it froze up on me while I was exploring one of the menu items so I had to pull the plug to get it restarted. A few minutes after it was back up and running, the spontaneous reboot occurred. I don't think it has done it since so hopefully that is an isolated incident but I'm tempted to return the thing and wait a few months for TiVo to work out the kinks.


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## almostinsane

I've had two in the last two days with my Elite.


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## garys

I enabled Hulu Plus and had a spontaneous reboot about an hour later.


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## El Gabito

I just had a reboot for the first time while watching Chuck. Nothing was recording. Never used hulu, netflix, etc. hardwire internet. no ups.


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## deb6161

Two spontaneous reboots so far. One last Thursday and one about 15 minutes ago. Sent a report to tivo. Hope they can do something.


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## garys

Two reboots in a row today.


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## dwiller

I just had my first Elite reboot that I am aware of. TV wasn't even on, I was reading, got up from my chair and right at that moment, I saw the green, blue, yellow, and 4 red lights go on the TiVo. I thought "this can't be good" especially since Amazing Race was on.

Sure enough it was rebooting, and continued recording "Amazing Race" once it was booted back up. After my issue of suggestions recording instead of season passes (see that post down a bit in this forum for that horror story), I have my FiOS DVR back up my critical shows, so I'll be able to watch "The Amazing Race" uninterrupted. 

I checked the diagnostics...my signal strengths are: 95, 94, 93, 95. I do not have SDV. Signal to noise ratios were 37 or 38 on each of the tuners.

I have hardwired internet, no UPS. HDMI to a receiver.

I'll have to be on the lookout and see if this happens more...


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## El Gabito

Part of my response from support:



> The TiVo box can be very sensitive to the various signals that go into it. If any of these signals are too strong or too weak it can cause the TiVo box to time out resulting in a reboot. In order to find the cause and in return a solution for this issue we will need to do a process of elimination.
> 
> To begin with I would like you to disconnect the RF or cable in connection, as well as the network connection. Next I would like you to eject the CableCARDs and tuning adapter if you have one. Lastly if you have the TiVo box plugged into a power strip or surge protector please bypass that and plug the power cord directly into the outlet in the wall.


Doesn't seem all that helpful and is probably where the question about network come into play.


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## tivoknucklehead

my Premiere and Elite reboot almost every day


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## rrg

I've returned my Elite. I can live with the Series 3s for a while longer (they've served me well for years).

I'll monitor progress on this issue and consider re-purchasing an Elite when it's a stable platform.


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## Millionaire2K

Mine rebooted around the 1st few days of having it while I was selecting a lot of shows to record. But since that heavy use period every thing seems fine. I just hope it stays fine.

Elite - HDMI - Samsung HDTV


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## todd_j_derr

I have the same thing with lots of corrected and uncorrected errors and every time I've checked, whatever values they have at boot is where they stay, so it seems more like they're just not being reset properly or something. After reboot (cold or warm) they get different values. I also think it's a complete load of crap.

I think my tivo went ~4 days then ~2 days without rebooting, I wish it was easier to tell. I've got a week or so left to make a decision whether to send it back... argh.


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## L David Matheny

todd_j_derr said:


> I have the same thing with lots of corrected and uncorrected errors and every time I've checked, whatever values they have at boot is where they stay, so it seems more like they're just not being reset properly or something. After reboot (cold or warm) they get different values. I also think it's a complete load of crap.
> 
> I think my tivo went ~4 days then ~2 days without rebooting, I wish it was easier to tell. I've got a week or so left to make a decision whether to send it back... argh.


I think my TiVo HD resets the error counts anytime the channel changes, when it also resets Time Since Tune Start. The Premiere seems to work a bit differently: Time Since Tune Start still resets anytime the channel changes, but I think the error counts reset only when the frequency changes, not when you just change to a different subchannel.

We OTA-only people can scroll down to the CableCARD section and look at Time Since OOB Tune Start to see how long it's been since booting, but I assume that field changes when you have a cable card. After a reboot, you should notice that all menus have reverted to the first submenu entry instead of the last entry you used when you were in that menu, so that's a clue. Also all tuners are on the same channel after a reboot.


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## rfdesq

Add me to the list of those experiencing random reboots. FWIW, I'm going to call TiVo support and report it.


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## ADG

rfdesq said:


> Add me to the list of those experiencing random reboots. FWIW, I'm going to call TiVo support and report it.


Please do - when I spoke with them they said there weren't aware that it's a wide-spread issue.


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## El Gabito

Can the OP add a poll - or perhaps a new thread should be started... I'm interested in who has had a reboot that owns an Elite vs hasn't.


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## seakurt

Reported my rebooting problem yesterday to TiVo support and got the same canned reply. Unhook everything. Wait. Hook one thing up. Wait. Hook another thing up. Wait... I don't have that much time before my 30 days is up.

But... I may have found something. Wondering if anyone else can comment on the likelihood of this being the issue.

I have the TiVo remote app on my iPhone and I noticed when I have TiVo connected to a second router/splitter (hard wired), the iPhone app can't find the Elite. So, I removed the router and have TiVo going directly to the main router in my house now (also hard wired). Not only does the iPhone app work (it finds the Elite), but I haven't had a reboot since I did that (about 4 days now). 

Any thoughts on how likely it is that the second router could be the problem in my setup? It's a really cheap multi-port router that I had my DVD player and a media streamer plugged into.

I only have a few days of my 30-day warranty left so I'm getting nervous.


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## El Gabito

seakurt said:


> Reported my rebooting problem yesterday to TiVo support and got the same canned reply. Unhook everything. Wait. Hook one thing up. Wait. Hook another thing up. Wait... I don't have that much time before my 30 days is up.
> 
> But... I may have found something. Wondering if anyone else can comment on the likelihood of this being the issue.
> 
> I have the TiVo remote app on my iPhone and I noticed when I have TiVo connected to a second router/splitter (hard wired), the iPhone app can't find the Elite. So, I removed the router and have TiVo going directly to the main router in my house now (also hard wired). Not only does the iPhone app work (it finds the Elite), but I haven't had a reboot since I did that (about 4 days now).
> 
> Any thoughts on how likely it is that the second router could be the problem in my setup? It's a really cheap multi-port router that I had my DVD player and a media streamer plugged into.
> 
> I only have a few days of my 30-day warranty left so I'm getting nervous.


My guess is not at all related. Mine was hooked up to the primary router and I could connect via the app.

It's a bug plain and simple. I won't take any other answer because it's just an excuse.

My last day to return is today - trying to figure out what to do.

edit: I just packed it up. I'm returning it. Found another best buy coupon for 12% off good thru 11/26. I'll buy again if it's fixed by then (hopefully it is).


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## ADG

seakurt said:


> Reported my rebooting problem yesterday to TiVo support and got the same canned reply. Unhook everything. Wait. Hook one thing up. Wait. Hook another thing up. Wait... I don't have that much time before my 30 days is up.
> 
> But... I may have found something. Wondering if anyone else can comment on the likelihood of this being the issue.
> 
> I have the TiVo remote app on my iPhone and I noticed when I have TiVo connected to a second router/splitter (hard wired), the iPhone app can't find the Elite. So, I removed the router and have TiVo going directly to the main router in my house now (also hard wired). Not only does the iPhone app work (it finds the Elite), but I haven't had a reboot since I did that (about 4 days now).
> 
> Any thoughts on how likely it is that the second router could be the problem in my setup? It's a really cheap multi-port router that I had my DVD player and a media streamer plugged into.
> 
> I only have a few days of my 30-day warranty left so I'm getting nervous.


zebras


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## DCIFRTHS

El Gabito said:


> My guess is not at all related. Mine was hooked up to the primary router and I could connect via the app.
> 
> It's a bug plain and simple. I won't take any other answer because it's just an excuse.
> 
> My last day to return is today - trying to figure out what to do.
> 
> edit: I just packed it up. I'm returning it. Found another best buy coupon for 12% off good thru 11/26. I'll buy again if it's fixed by then (hopefully it is).


I am going to bring mine back too. I haven't even unpacked it, but I don't have the time, or patience, to deal with spontaneous reboots. I also used a 12% coupon, so it's a shame I have to bring it back...

Do you think this could be a hardware related issue? What temps are people's boxes running at?


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## aaronwt

My Elite has been consistently at 35C when I've checked it. Well it says 35. I have no idea why the "C" is missing since it's on the two tuner models.

But I've also not been having spontaneous reboots. The only reboots I had was when I was messing with certain things where the bugs cause a reboot. I haven't messed with any of that in awhile and I have not seen any reboots since.

I set up four recordings today during teh EAS test to see if that caused any issues. I'll have to check when I get home from work.


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## JediMaster109

Question... Do the premiers have the same issue? Random reboots? If not I would say it is a issue with the dual core being enabled. Might be something as simple as a memory leak in the code... Hence the reason they havn't gone live on the premieres yet... Just a thought... I haven't had a reboot yet... I think... Why it happens more often to some people that's the hard part to figure out...


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## JediMaster109

aaronwt said:


> My Elite has been consistently at 35C when I've checked it. Well it says 35. I have no idea why the "C" is missing since it's on the two tuner models.
> 
> But I've also not been having spontaneous reboots. The only reboots I had was when I was messing with certain things where the bugs cause a reboot. I haven't messed with any of that in awhile and I have not seen any reboots since.
> 
> I set up four recordings today during teh EAS test to see if that caused any issues. I'll have to check when I get home from work.


Just so I get this right... MBT is the temperature readout correct? Mine always says 39 or 40


----------



## aaronwt

JediMaster109 said:


> Just so I get this right... MBT is the temperature readout correct? Mine always says 39 or 40


It should be right. The Premiere I have with a 2TB drive also runs at 34/35C. The ones with 1TB run at 33/34C. And the 320GB ones run at 32/33C.
My room temps are between 68F and 70F this time of year.


----------



## razor237

I have had mine reboot two days in a row at almost the same time


----------



## wmotdf

I have noticed my two Elite's are rebooting at least daily. I have not seen it while watching (except if I order an Amazon movie and forget not to hit the thumbs up key which always causes a reboot), but I know when I check the tuners. I have turned off suggestions to stop the tuners from changing but I almost always find all the tuners on the same channel when I turn on the tv. All the signals seem ok and there is no issue with the temperture.


----------



## ADG

Seems to be erratic for me. I went two weeks without noticing any reboots and then two in two days. Then another two weeks with not problems and again two in the last two days. Since the picture freezes for a few seconds before the system reboots, I wonder if this could be an issue with some of the hard drives?


----------



## beejay

I installed my Elite on Friday. I think I had a reboot (unrelated to installing software) shortly afterwards. I think I had one on Saturday. I know I just had one today while I was watching football.

Contacted TiVo, they suggested disconnecting network and cable input, watch recorded shows for 3 days to see if it was the box itself. If no reboots in that time, they suspect an input level.

Very unhappy about this. Not sure what I'm going to do next.


----------



## darrenkwalsh

My Premiere has been rebooting constantly for 6 months now. Called customer service one time and they blamed my Internet connection signal quality. Don't believe them as my other HD Tivo never has this problem. Due to the consistent nature of the reboot, believe that it is a system garbage collection problem with the software that Tivo has refused or is unable to fix. At this point, think Tivo will eventually be an obsolete platform as they have refused to innovate sufficiently at a level to be relevant. Hoping that they will prove me wrong!


----------



## justinw

I had a random reboot after using the iPhone app. Anyone noticed something similar?


----------



## caddyroger

I had my Elite for about 4 weeks now. Last night it froze up and rebooted while transferring a program from my pc. Tonight it rebooted during the half time program of the NE and NY Jets game


----------



## El Gabito

Possible good news:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/136198762682007552


----------



## xbr23

had the first random reboot today while watching the evening news. i just bought mine 4 days ago..... hoping for an update soon.


----------



## ADG

El Gabito said:


> Possible good news:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/136198762682007552


Yet she does not say that the update will address the reboot issue.


----------



## El Gabito

ADG said:


> Yet she does not say that the update will address the reboot issue.


I think that was the implication though - she only had 22 characters left. It is twitter after all.


----------



## ADG

Well, I hope so.


----------



## rrg

I'll keep my eye on this thread, and consider re-purchasing the Elite if the software update happens and does indeed clear up this issue.

But one other thing I wanted to ask: where is everyone getting these 12%-off Best Buy coupons that I keep reading about here?

I'd like one of those.


----------



## danjw1

rrg said:


> I'll keep my eye on this thread, and consider re-purchasing the Elite if the software update happens and does indeed clear up this issue.
> 
> But one other thing I wanted to ask: where is everyone getting these 12%-off Best Buy coupons that I keep reading about here?
> 
> I'd like one of those.


http://m.bestbuy.com/mobile/coupons/coupon-premier-3622177.html


----------



## xbr23

another random reboot today. where's the update?


----------



## innocentfreak

It is out and you might have even updated during the reboot. Otherwise force a daily call and you may see a pending restart.


----------



## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> It is out and you might have even updated during the reboot. Otherwise force a daily call and you may see a pending restart.


I forced a daily call and it downloaded the update. Now the Amazon reboot bug is fixed. What other issues were there? The only other time I had a reboot was when I tried to do 9 concurrent HD streams. It would do 8 fine but when I tried a 9th it would reboot. I guess I need to check it out just to see what happens. Although in normal use I would never encounter this.

EDIT: The reboot bug when trying to do nine concurrent HD streams is still there. At least it can do eight concurrent read/write streams without issues.


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> I forced a daily call and it downloaded the update. Now the Amazon reboot bug is fixed. What other issues were there? The only other time I had a reboot was when I tried to do 9 concurrent HD streams. It would do 8 fine but when I tried a 9th it would reboot. I guess I need to check it out just to see what happens. Although in normal use I would never encounter this.
> 
> EDIT: The reboot bug when trying to do nine concurrent HD streams is still there. At least it can do eight concurrent read/write streams without issues.


Of course since it is TiVo no one knows what it is supposed to fix. We are assuming the random reboot bug some suffer from since her reply about an update was to someone who returned their Elite due to the reboot bug.

If you can constantly reboot the Elite with 9, you might want to send an email to Margret. Even if they can't fix it, they might be able to do something so it doesn't allow you to do 9 streams to avoid people rebooting.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Today's update should be good for reboots, zombie channels, black screens, Amazon crashes...


----------



## danjw1

Is this showing up on all Premieres or just the Elites?


----------



## aaronwt

Elites.


----------



## NickCat

And here I thought it was just me...  I should have known better than contacting TiVo Chat support before coming here...

This was the reply I got to the exact issues EVERYONE else is having:



> Roderic: However, if it were a software problem there would be more reports of such symptoms. At the moment I'm leaning towards this being a possible hard drive problem, though that would be very unusual for a new unit.


Anyone else notice that the registration on the time (ie. 0:30, 2:30, etc.) when 30 second skipping is left aligned not centered on the black background?

Did they REALLY beta test this version at all... and to think I was wondering how long it would be before I'd get this version on my two other Premiere XLs.

I just forced a call, the download seemed pretty long (it's loading info now), so hoping the update is in there waiting for a restart.


----------



## innocentfreak

NickCat said:


> And here I thought it was just me...  I should have known better than contacting TiVo Chat support before coming here...
> 
> This was the reply I got to the exact issues EVERYONE else is having:
> 
> Anyone else notice that the registration on the time (ie. 0:30, 2:30, etc.) when 30 second skipping is left aligned not centered on the black background?
> 
> Did they REALLY beta test this version at all... and to think I was wondering how long it would be before I'd get this version on my two other Premiere XLs.
> 
> I just forced a call, the download seemed pretty long (it's loading info now), so hoping the update is in there waiting for a restart.


The left aligned text has been since day one on the Elite.


----------



## NickCat

innocentfreak said:


> The left aligned text has been since day one on the Elite.


That's what I meant... I reread it and I think I'm too tired to be posting right now. 

I think my astonishment is at how simple an issue that would be to fix... just seems like TiVo fell asleep at the wheel on the Elite. But I'll take the quirks as long as I can continue to record 4 streams at once.


----------



## NickCat

Well that didn't take long... 5 minutes after installing the update and already my first reboot. After the update I fixed my zombie channels, updated one season pass from 5 to 10 episodes, and started to play a recorded show, then poof! 

It's still booting back up now... so much for the update.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Today's update should be good for reboots, zombie channels, black screens, Amazon crashes...


Is that your opinion, or a statement from TiVo? If it's the latter, where did you see it? Thanks.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

NickCat said:


> Well that didn't take long... 5 minutes after installing the update and already my first reboot. After the update I fixed my zombie channels, updated one season pass from 5 to 10 episodes, and started to play a recorded show, then poof!
> 
> It's still booting back up now... so much for the update.


That sucks.


----------



## NickCat

DCIFRTHS said:


> That sucks.


This reboot issue makes me feel like I'm back in the 80s playing "Press Your Luck"

Big Bucks... No Whamies... and Stop...


----------



## innocentfreak

Send a message to margret aka Tivodesign on twitter then. From her tweets this I supposed to address the reboots, and he asked at least one person to let her know if it happened after the update.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

DCIFRTHS said:


> Is that your opinion, or a statement from TiVo? If it's the latter, where did you see it? Thanks.


Compilation from Tivo, RCN, personal experience, and other users.


----------



## NickCat

innocentfreak said:


> Send a message to margret aka Tivodesign on twitter then. From her tweets this I supposed to address the reboots, and he asked at least one person to let her know if it happened after the update.


I'm going to use it for a few days to see if it does happen again, I was pretty hard on the TiVo the moment it came back up, so perhaps the reboot was self induced.

I did just tweet Margret to let her know.


----------



## El Gabito

Alright - do me a favor and pay close attention. I'd like to get another Elite (to replace my returned one) if this issue is truly fixed.


----------



## HazelW

I'v been holding off too until it is fixed. I need to get one by mid-December when my Tivo-HD renews service.


----------



## JediMaster109

What's the Latest version up to now?


----------



## JediMaster109

Nevermind found it on another thread...
- current software is 14.9.2-01-2-758


----------



## seakurt

I hadn't had a reboot for nearly 2 weeks and then had one yesterday morning. Before the new version release. Forced a download yesterday afternoon and got the update. I'm past my 30-day return period now so at the mercy of TiVo devs to acknowledge and fix this fiasco. Here's hoping.


----------



## aaronwt

Fiasco? Does everyone even have this issue?


----------



## sbiller

aaronwt said:


> Fiasco? Does everyone even have this issue?


+1:up:

I'm actually impressed how quickly TiVo was able to send out the update to all Elite boxes. It looks like they've accelerated their development and release cycle based on the dates associated with the HDUI and the Flash Player in the current 14.9.2 build.


----------



## jedisinclair13

El Gabito said:


> Alright - do me a favor and pay close attention. I'd like to get another Elite (to replace my returned one) if this issue is truly fixed.


I too want to buy an Elite, but I won't until the issue is resolved.


----------



## andyf

How long will you wait? I used to reboot once a day, it's been a day without a reboot.


----------



## caddyroger

aaronwt said:


> Fiasco? Does everyone even have this issue?


Yes I have had 3 reboots in the 3 weeks. And I was stupid enough to buy a junk Elite. I do not have Lifetime on it so I could just throw in the trash or sell Ebay. Maybe when my motherboard and cpu gets here the flickering problem will be gone. I then can rid of all of my tivo and be done with tivo. 
It kind of hard to believe that you don have any problems with your premieres or Elites.


----------



## caddyroger

jedisinclair13 said:


> I too want to buy an Elite, but I won't until the issue is resolved.


That might be month away yet.


----------



## seakurt

I had gone nearly 2 weeks without a random reboot. It's now rebooted twice since the update to 14.9.2-01-2-758. And that's not including the reboot to install the software update.


----------



## aaronwt

caddyroger said:


> Yes I have had 3 reboots in the 3 weeks. And I was stupid enough to buy a junk Elite. I do not have Lifetime on it so I could just throw in the trash or sell Ebay. Maybe when my motherboard and cpu gets here the flickering problem will be gone. I then can rid of all of my tivo and be done with tivo.
> It kind of hard to believe that you don have any problems with your premieres or Elites.


I'm not having any spontaneous reboots . I could get it to reboot with a couple of repeatable bugs, but those bugs weren't encountered for me in normal use. And one of those, the Amazon reboot bug, was fixed with the lastest release.
IN normal use my Elite has been fine. I trust my Elite enough to rely on it for my main recordings, and it has not let me down yet.

I did forget about the issue I initially had with Hulu+, but that was fixed by me wiping my subscriptions and re-adding them. Once I did that I could access Hulu+ and I haven't had any issues with Hulu+ on the Elite since.

My Premieres have been rock solid for me.


----------



## wackymann

I bought my Elite the first week it was available. I think I've averaged about 1 reboot per week (that I have noticed). I decided that the advantage of 4 tuners outweighed the reboot issue. Hopefully it will be fixed someday.


----------



## mvnuenen

The moment my Premiere XL received 14.9 two days ago it started rebooting EVERY 5 MINUTES. It is now in a continuous loop. Initially it would even hang during the reboot (and reboot within the reboot - which was "solved" by unplugging the network cable). Now it actually reaches a full reboot but after 5 minutes... crash

I did notice one tuner has 0 and 0 for RS corrected and RS uncorrected. The other tuner had 138 and 256. Yet, mu PQ has always been outstanding with the Premiere and it only started after receiving the firmware upgrade


----------



## DCIFRTHS

andyf said:


> How long will you wait? I used to reboot once a day, it's been a day without a reboot.


For me: As long as it takes to get a stable platform.


----------



## andyf

Just had my first spontaneous reboot since getting the 14.9.2 update on Thursday(?). All I was doing was watching the news.


----------



## ADG

Yes, the update did nothing to address the reboot issue.


----------



## innocentfreak

Again I would suggest those of you with reboots after the update send an email to TiVodesign aka margret @TiVo.com with all the details you can provide especially if you can reproduce it manually.


----------



## djwilso

wackymann said:


> I bought my Elite the first week it was available. I think I've averaged about 1 reboot per week (that I have noticed). I decided that the advantage of 4 tuners outweighed the reboot issue. Hopefully it will be fixed someday.


Same here. Since I got a new router (ASUS RT-N56U), I haven't had any reboots at all, but I don't know if this change is significant or related.

The Elite is wired, but with the new router the Internet connection seems more stable. With my old Netgear WNDR3700 I had to reboot the &%$%^% router about once a week.


----------



## TivoInNY

After not having any reboots (that I could tell), I've had three in the last week, the most recent one while watching a recording with two other channels recording in the background. We were just watching, picture froze, and then reboot. Very frustrating.


----------



## innocentfreak

Like I said make sure you contact TiVodesign on twitter or email her at Margret @TiVo.com with your details if you are having reboots.

I would also suggest Elite owners sign up for Field Trials, the beta program if you haven't. I know I originally forgot to add my box to my profile.

https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/login.html


----------



## ADG

innocentfreak said:


> Like I said make sure you contact TiVodesign on twitter or email her at Margret @TiVo.com with your details if you are having reboots.
> 
> https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/login.html


I've done both and unfortunately there is no way to know if Margret actually exists and if so, if she is getting the email. There is no response at all.


----------



## El Gabito

ADG said:


> I've done both and unfortunately there is no way to know if Margret actually exists and if so, if she is getting the email. There is no response at all.


She can't respond to everyone. She responds on twitter to some questions. She exists.


----------



## ADG

El Gabito said:


> She can't respond to everyone. She responds on twitter to some questions. She exists.


No offense intended, but your saying so doesn't convince me. A reply from Tivo would be both courteous and appropriate.


----------



## innocentfreak

ADG said:


> No offense intended, but your saying so doesn't convince me. A reply from Tivo would be both courteous and appropriate.


Have you filed a support ticket with TiVo over it?

She isn't an official support person. She is just someone who is trying to help when she can. All you have to do is look at her twitter feed or search tivodesign to see her replies to another person having the same issue.


----------



## ADG

All that means is there is an account named Margret at Tivo - not a PERSON named Margret at Tivo.... Okay look, let's not take this thread off topic. I said what I wanted to say, thanks.


----------



## innocentfreak

ADG said:


> All that means is there is an account named Margret at Tivo - not a PERSON named Margret at Tivo.... Okay look, let's not take this thread off topic. I said what I wanted to say, thanks.


Maybe you need to do some research then, because Marget Schmidt is definitely the VP of User Experience at TiVo and it is her Twitter account.


----------



## tunarollz

Yup. She's a TiVo VP and helps out as much as she can on her own personal time. I can't think of a time where a VP of any other CE company tried to help the customers directly like she does. I feel there's some mis-directed angst here.


----------



## Dave in Phoenix

I am having the same reboot issues on a Tivo HD. Just watching recording nothing else being done. Hope its just program updates not TIVO dying.

Reboot maybe about 5PM MST 11/23 and just now about 2:20 AM MST 11/24. Had an earlier one maybe a week ago but none before.

Fortunately comes back fine.

Can not find program updates done that match times of reboots.


----------



## mvnuenen

TiVo update I received by (private?) email:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2205

A few of us already solved the issue by replacing the M-card. Then again, this new TiVo software update might be working for all


----------



## beejay

"If your TiVo Premiere has downloaded software version 14.9.2 and you experience problems with *frequent* rebooting" - link

After 6 days without a reboot, I had one yesterday. Not sure if that is "frequent". But it sounds like this gets me a new version that might help, so I'm thinking it's worth a try.

[Edited to add: I followed the steps in the link and didn't get "Pending Restart". The first connection did seem to take long enough to make me think I was getting new software, but there is no evidence that it was installed.]


----------



## HazelW

mvnuenen said:


> TiVo update I received by (private?) email:
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2205
> 
> A few of us already solved the issue by replacing the M-card. Then again, this new TiVo software update might be working for all


The link asks you to remove and reinsert the cablecard. I'm pretty sure on a Comcast system that if you do this, pairing info will be changed. You will probably be OK except for premium (HBO etc.) channels.


----------



## beejay

HazelW said:


> The link asks you to remove and reinsert the cablecard. I'm pretty sure on a Comcast system that if you do this, pairing info will be changed. You will probably be OK except for premium (HBO etc.) channels.


I don't have true premium but I do have channels not in the "standard" package. I didn't lose them when following the instructions. (I'm on Comcast.)


----------



## aaronwt

HazelW said:


> The link asks you to remove and reinsert the cablecard. I'm pretty sure on a Comcast system that if you do this, pairing info will be changed. You will probably be OK except for premium (HBO etc.) channels.


 Pairing info should be fine as long as the same card is put back in the device. If you put a different card in, and then stick in the old card in, pairing info will change. At least that was the case when I last had Comcast a few years ago with my TiVos. I could remove the cable card and put it back in and the pairing info would be intact. But if I put a different card in and then tried the previous cable card, the pairing info would change.


----------



## aaronwt

Well I had a reboot last night. All tuners were on the same channel this morning. And i'm assuming that there would not have been another update since I'm already on 14.9.2

I think this is my first truly spontaneous reboot where I wasn't messing with something that causes a reboot from a bug.

I did notice that I had a message for a channel lineup change(one channel). That was the only other thing I noticed. But I also didn't see any Zombie channels from it either.


----------



## Dave95125

I found this thread too late. I was on my own trying to get help from TIVO tech support. I now understand that I did not get a lemon, but that the TIVO Elites have a reboot problem.

TIVO tech support refused to do an exchange. So, I called sales and requested a return under the 30 day return policy. I got my money back, but it cost me $18 to ship the Elite back to Texas.

I bought a TIVO HD with 1.5 TB and Lifetime on ebay. Then, when I went to cancel my old TIVO HD and they offerred me Lifetime for $99. So, now I have two TIVO HDs on one HDTV. 

I miss having 4 tuners. Technically, I have 4 tuners, but it is hard to figure out which season passes are third in line on a given time and day.


----------



## aaronwt

Dave95125 said:


> I found this thread too late. I was on my own trying to get help from TIVO tech support. I now understand that I did not get a lemon, but that the TIVO Elites have a reboot problem.
> 
> TIVO tech support refused to do an exchange. So, I called sales and requested a return under the 30 day return policy. I got my money back, but it cost me $18 to ship the Elite back to Texas.
> 
> I bought a TIVO HD with 1.5 TB and Lifetime on ebay. Then, when I went to cancel my old TIVO HD and they offerred me Lifetime for $99. So, now I have two TIVO HDs on one HDTV.
> 
> I miss having 4 tuners. Technically, I have 4 tuners, but it is hard to figure out which season passes are third in line on a given time and day.


This is why I really like the Elite. I had been sick of having to constantly switch back and forth between two TiVos which I had been doing for ten years. I have not missed any recordings with my Elite since I started relying on it and removed the other two TiVos from use 5 weeks ago, but I've also only had one true spontaneous reboot since I got the Elite.


----------



## rrg

That was my goal too, but I couldn't trust the Elite enough to retire the two Series 3s. In addition to spontaneous reboots I had an issue with Season Pass corruption that occurred more than once (others, though not many, have also reported this) plus another problem, loss of HDMI audio, that I don't think anyone else has reported.

I still hope to re-purchase the Elite when reports of these problems stop or become rare.


----------



## djwilso

I have gone 10 days with no reboots now with my Elite.

The last reboot time coincided with the installation of a new, more stable Asus router, so I'm thinking that the previous flaky Netgear WNDR3700 that needed weekly reboots was contributing to the problem.

However, a loss of Internet connection shouldn't cause anything to spontaneously reboot. None of my other myriad of Internet-connected devices ever reboot on their own.


----------



## rainwater

djwilso said:


> However, a loss of Internet connection shouldn't cause anything to spontaneously reboot. None of my other myriad of Internet-connected devices ever reboot on their own.


The Premiere platform is known for instability due to network conditions. I guess the Elite hasn't changed. It isn't hard to get a Premiere to reboot. Just use Netflix for a bit. I don't know if it can be fixed in the software, but you would hope it could be.


----------



## tomm1079

rainwater said:


> The Premiere platform is known for instability due to network conditions. I guess the Elite hasn't changed. It isn't hard to get a Premiere to reboot. Just use Netflix for a bit. I don't know if it can be fixed in the software, but you would hope it could be.


Maybe this is why i have never had issues with my Elite or ever with the premiere. I use powerline adapters for internet and it is really stable. So since i do not have any issues with my connection maybe that is why i am stable.


----------



## aaronwt

rainwater said:


> The Premiere platform is known for instability due to network conditions. I guess the Elite hasn't changed. It isn't hard to get a Premiere to reboot. Just use Netflix for a bit. I don't know if it can be fixed in the software, but you would hope it could be.


I can use Netflix all day and it won't reboot any of my Premieres. Now I have made it reboot on purpose by watching Netflix and unplugging the Ethernet cable when testing for that bug, but I don't know if that is still a bug or not though. But my FiOS INternet connection has better than 99.99% uptime in the 4+ years I've had it. And over the last fifteen years my home network has even better uptime since I put every electronic device I own on a UPS.


----------



## garymarshallsa

I am also getting reboots on the elite for unknown reasons. I am using HDMI. I am also having a problem where search misses some shows clearly in the guide. I can record it from the guide but cannot find the show using search. I have found if I use the title in a wish list search it finds the show without problems.


----------



## justinw

Mine rebooted tonight randomly during Terra Nova. Only the second one since 14.9


----------



## jenz

Had my Elite sine launch, 1st reboot happened last night. I wasn't using the Tivo, and it wasn't recording anything or making a service call.


----------



## ADG

Well, the fact that the posts in this thread have slowed to a trickle is a good sign, I guess.


----------



## nandopr

ADG said:


> Well, the fact that the posts in this thread have slowed to a trickle is a good sign, I guess.


My two Elites are behaving better now. No reboot for about two weeks (so far). No idea if the last software upgrade helped.


----------



## xbr23

McLovin my Elite. Couple of random reboots but no other issues.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Mine just rebooted; I think it was pretty much right at the stroke of 9pm. Looks like it must have screwed up a couple recordings this time since I have 2 red lights on after it rebooted.

I don't know if it's doing it any less frequently or not - since it's kind of a pain to check I've mostly stopped doing it, but I know I've seen all tuners on one channel a few times since the update.


----------



## wackymann

I haven't seen my Elite reboot for several weeks now. It did reboot once, but that was because of a 20 second power outage (according to the UPS on my computer). After that incident, I went out and bought a UPS for my TiVo. I figured it couldn't hurt. I plugged my ethernet switch into it as well, since people seem to think that the TiVo doesn't like being disconnected from the internet. I use this switch near my TV to share a single ethernet cable between my SlingBox, my TiVo, and my blu-ray player. My cable modem and wireless router were already plugged into my computer's UPS.


----------



## tvhank

I stop posting "My Tivo just rebooted..." since it just seems repetitive. But people should not assume it has gotten better. My Tivo tends to reboot when I'm doing multiple things, e.g. downloading a show, while transfering a show, while watching a show. Even fast forwarding and rewinding too often in close succession while having it do other things will cause a reboot. It just doesn't like multitasking so to be safe I don't do anything during prime time when the Tivo is recording.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

tvhank said:


> I stop posting "My Tivo just rebooted..." since it just seems repetitive. But people should not assume it has gotten better. My Tivo tends to reboot when I'm doing multiple things, e.g. downloading a show, while transfering a show, while watching a show. Even fast forwarding and rewinding too often in close succession while having it do other things will cause a reboot. It just doesn't like multitasking so to be safe I don't do anything during prime time when the Tivo is recording.


I'm glad that you posted because when there are no "My Tivo just rebooted..." posts, I do tend to think the issue has gone away.


----------



## beejay

Had a reboot tonight while watching a recording. No recording in progress. First reboot in about 10 days.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I opened another ticket with Tivo. They want me to do the whole "disconnect everything" crap again. It's such a ridiculous request it's not even worth doing, and it's ridiculous that they're probably just going to close my ticket again and assume it's not a problem.


----------



## seakurt

Two reboots in two days. I'd gone a couple weeks without a problem. Drat. Was really hoping the problem was solved. Yeah, the "troubleshooting" solution TiVo offers seems designed to just make us go away. Very disappointed in the quality of their new product.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Is it safe to assume a case # does not divulge any personal information?

I think it would be cool for everyone who is having this problem to post their case #'s, so we can each respond to customer support with a long list of other people having the problem and dispel any notion that it's an isolated problem...


----------



## PrimeRisk

...and the Elite reboots continue. 4 shows recording, watching a previously recorded show and I hit the Instant Replay button. POW! This is getting really really annoying. Now I have 4 primetime shows all missing 7-8 minutes in the middle. After the reboot the response was so sluggish it was hardly usable for 30 minutes.

This issue absolutely hasn't gone away.


----------



## aaronwt

So far I've only had the one truly spontaneous reboot.


----------



## PrimeRisk

I've witnessed/caused a number of them. Some I can understand such as when we were recording 4 things, downloading a movie from Amazon and then I fired up kmttg and it started a batch download of shows. It may just be too much for TiVo to handle all at once. The ones I'm frustrated with is when I'm really doing nothing but watching a show and then press a button for a regular function (replay, right-arrow, FF) and POW! 

I'm not buying the bad power or bad cable signal story. What it feels like is a interrupt timeout and the TiVo software's exception handling causes a reboot...or maybe I should say *lack* of exception handling. As it stands, sometimes the Elite will be very sluggish to respond to remote commands. (Press pause and it takes 3 seconds to actually pause) It feels like, to a lesser extent, the early days of the S2s when they were indexing. They would become SO bogged down indexing that it would sometimes go 30 seconds without responding to remote commands, but it got them and would then run them all at once. My wife was famous for repeatedly hammering on the button she wanted to work until it did something, unfortunately hitting replay 492 times in a row has an undesired effect.

Ok, I'll stop my armchair software diagnostics for awhile.


----------



## beejay

I am pretty sure my last reboot (getting maybe one a week) was when I was watching a recorded program, no scheduled recordings (or transfers or suggestions) in progress and NO KEY PRESSED.

The image/sound just froze and I thought "uh oh" and watched it reboot.

I so much want to think it's a software issue (which I believe can eventually be fixed) rather than some hardware issue...


----------



## L David Matheny

PrimeRisk said:


> I've witnessed/caused a number of them. Some I can understand such as when we were recording 4 things, downloading a movie from Amazon and then I fired up kmttg and it started a batch download of shows. It may just be too much for TiVo to handle all at once. The ones I'm frustrated with is when I'm really doing nothing but watching a show and then press a button for a regular function (replay, right-arrow, FF) and POW!
> 
> I'm not buying the bad power or bad cable signal story. What it feels like is a interrupt timeout and the TiVo software's exception handling causes a reboot...or maybe I should say *lack* of exception handling.


Or maybe an interrupt service routine is not saving the context completely enough, and some register or data value gets stepped on. Can stack overflow still be a problem these days? And no matter how many things you've got the TiVo doing, that shouldn't cause a crash or reboot. If it has too much to handle all at once, it should just delay some things, with user-requested actions being of the lowest priority (compared to things like recording).


----------



## aaronwt

PrimeRisk said:


> I've witnessed/caused a number of them. Some I can understand such as when we were recording 4 things, downloading a movie from Amazon and then I fired up kmttg and it started a batch download of shows. It may just be too much for TiVo to handle all at once. The ones I'm frustrated with is when I'm really doing nothing but watching a show and then press a button for a regular function (replay, right-arrow, FF) and POW!
> 
> I'm not buying the bad power or bad cable signal story. What it feels like is a interrupt timeout and the TiVo software's exception handling causes a reboot...or maybe I should say *lack* of exception handling. As it stands, sometimes the Elite will be very sluggish to respond to remote commands. (Press pause and it takes 3 seconds to actually pause) It feels like, to a lesser extent, the early days of the S2s when they were indexing. They would become SO bogged down indexing that it would sometimes go 30 seconds without responding to remote commands, but it got them and would then run them all at once. My wife was famous for repeatedly hammering on the button she wanted to work until it did something, unfortunately hitting replay 492 times in a row has an undesired effect.
> 
> Ok, I'll stop my armchair software diagnostics for awhile.


I haven't used my kmttg with it but there were issues with TiVo Desktop. Otherwise I have no issue with it reading/writing eight HD streams. It's when I try to do a ninth stream that I can get it to reboot.
I actually forgot that TiVo desktop transfers could make it reboot since I never went back to messing around with it.


----------



## minimeh

L David Matheny said:


> Or maybe an interrupt service routine is not saving the context completely enough, and some register or data value gets stepped on. Can stack overflow still be a problem these days? *And no matter how many things you've got the TiVo doing, that shouldn't cause a crash or reboot.* If it has too much to handle all at once, it should just delay some things, with user-requested actions being of the lowest priority (compared to things like recording).


Bottom line, a crash in a consumer appliance under any normal and intended usage is not acceptable. Engaging all tuners in recording while watching another recording causes a crash? Not acceptable. No way. No how.

If for some reason the capabilities of the device will be exceeded by a user action, the application must not allow it at a minimum. Stack utilization can be monitored. Shared resource utilization can be enforced. Deadlocks must not be possible. Context can and must be completely switched in and out as threads gain and lose focus.

Because the subtle issues of programming multiple cores increases orders of magnitude over single cores, the types of "random" crashes experienced aren't all that surprising.

Until the engineers chase all the problems of converting a single-core system to a robust dual-cores system, the Elite is not for me. In fact, I keep hoping that the dual-core system (14.9.2x) doesn't get pushed onto my Premiere any time soon!


----------



## Dave95125

Since I returned my Elite under the 30 day refund window, I have been watching this thread to see if the reboot issue was resolved. For a while there were no posts, but now it is clear that many are sufferring with this ongoing problem.

I'm now using two TIVO HDs on one HDTV. Every few days I go to the To Do List History to find any important shows not being recorded on the main TIVO. I then program them onto the 2nd TIVO HD, which has very few Season Passes. I also use the 2nd DVR to record movies off of Showtime. 

The two TIVO HDs are solid, but I miss what the Elite might have been.

My deepest sympathy for those left holding the bag.

(I recently ((a month ago)) purchased the 2nd TIVO HD off ebay. It has 1.5 TB and Lifetime. I paid $430.) (I had some fun going through the recordings from the previous owner.)


----------



## Arcady

For the record, I have had an Elite since launch week, and I am not getting any reboots. The Elite has been our main TiVo for the past 3 weeks and I'm sure I would hear about it from my wife if it had done anything like that. There has never been an incomplete recording, and we record on all four tuners at least 5 hours a day, and on 2-3 at least 3 hours a day. The only time I have found all four tuners on the same channel was after a reboot caused by a software update. The unit is on 14.9.2 at the moment.

I do not use kmttg or TiVo Desktop, but I do use pyTivo for Mac and it works flawlessly.


----------



## PrimeRisk

Ding... and yet another reboot while doing absolutely nothing. Tivo had been on pause for 20 minutes or so when a call came in and POW! Again during Prime Time when 2 of 3 shows recording won't play again. This issue is getting worse, not better.


----------



## Teeps

Who here have a tuning adapter connected to their TiVo Elite?


----------



## beejay

I don't have a tuning adapter on my Elite and have had about 1 reboot a week after having 14.9.2 installed. Before that I was having a reboot every other day.


----------



## sbiller

Teeps said:


> Who here have a tuning adapter connected to their TiVo Elite?


I do have a tuning adapter connected. CableCARD Diag screen shows last boot time is Nov 29th so I would say my Elite is pretty stable. I'm very happy with it.


----------



## HazelW

Is there a way to tell if a reboot happens--like a log or something in the menus?


----------



## todd_j_derr

I asked Tivo support about how to tell if there was a reboot and they didn't answer me. I think most people use "Time since OOB Tune Start" on the DVR diagnostics screen but I don't know it that's completely reliable.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I had my first reboot since changing to FiOS. I was watching the game last night and had not sent a single remote command in probably 2 hours. There were no recordings in progress, and the time was 11:53 so it's not like one was about to start. But, who knows what was happening on the network. I'm going to leave the ethernet disconnected and see what happens.

The support people keep insisting it's a "signal strength" issue despite my insistence that many other people are having this issue and sending them the link to this thread. Their refusal to even consider an alternate explanation is the most maddening part, I'm 99% sure the "signal strength" thing is BS and as others have said, who cares - there's no excuse for it rebooting regardless of what is happening with the signal. But, they're just going off a script or something, I don't know how we can get to talk to someone who actually wants to listen.

Given it doesn't seem to be happening with the Premiere and only with the Elite, it seems like it's most likely either a hardware problem or an issue with enabling the second core. Let's hope it's the latter, and let's hope they have enough good engineers to get it right.


----------



## sbiller

HazelW said:


> Is there a way to tell if a reboot happens--like a log or something in the menus?


Go to the CableCARD Diag Screen. You will see the Boot Time.


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## todd_j_derr

I'd say that depends on your CableCard; mine (Motorola) doesn't show that on any screen AFAICT.


----------



## aaronwt

Well this was a first. I got home around 8:30PM and saw that the Elite was on two of the same channels and had two recordings going on the other two. It had rebooted at 8:15PM and the recordings were split up. Luckily those two recordings were duplicated on another box. But if they were not I would really be pissed. Hopefully this doesn't happen again.


----------



## caddyroger

I had 2 sudden reboots in 1 hour tonight both times while recording a program and transferring a program. Plus I about 3 remote stop responding to commands causing to reboot. I am using the SDUI menus.


----------



## Teeps

aaronwt said:


> Luckily those two recordings were duplicated on another box. But if they were not I would really be pissed.


For missed recordings, I use bittorrent.


----------



## HaloBox

My Elite just reboot on 12/14/2011 at 8:45pm CST. Lovely.


----------



## bd177

I have a Premiere and it has been rebooting at least once a day since 14.9.2 came out and sometimes twice a day since 14.9.2.2 came out. First the picture starts pixelating , then the picture freezes for 5 or 6 seconds. This lasts for about an hour and then it will reboot. I tried the backing out of the MCard and rebooting thing but that was no help. So I think this is a 14.9.2 problem not an Elite problem.


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## HazelW

I got an Elite a week ago and no sigh of reboots. It seems rock solid.


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## beejay

Before 14.9.2, I was having a reboot every other day.

After 14.9.2 I was having about one a week.

Until tonight. Two so far this evening.


----------



## DavidTigerFan

The elites came with 14.9 right? I suspect that's the culprit because we have alot of premiere owners that now have this problem.


----------



## wackymann

wackymann said:


> I haven't seen my Elite reboot for several weeks now. It did reboot once, but that was because of a 20 second power outage (according to the UPS on my computer). After that incident, I went out and bought a UPS for my TiVo. I figured it couldn't hurt. I plugged my ethernet switch into it as well, since people seem to think that the TiVo doesn't like being disconnected from the internet. I use this switch near my TV to share a single ethernet cable between my SlingBox, my TiVo, and my blu-ray player. My cable modem and wireless router were already plugged into my computer's UPS.


Still haven't seen another reboot - been like 6 weeks now! I'm loving my Elite at this point. Four tuners is amazing. *knocks on wood*


----------



## HazelW

HazelW said:


> I got an Elite a week ago and no sigh of reboots. It seems rock solid.


I spoke too soon. Had two reboots in last 24 hours. It freezes up and then reboots in 10-20 seconds.


----------



## Teeps

HazelW said:


> I spoke too soon. Had two reboots in last 24 hours. It freezes up and then reboots in 10-20 seconds.


Wow, not what I wanted to hear, as I'm on the fence about buying an Elite.

But, because of the on going problem with my S3 after adding a tuning adapter, last June. I'm not ready for more TiVo inc. related problems, with a completely new and unmodified product.

So, I wait and watch...

Did your TiVo start rebooting after the latest software update (14.9.2)?
Or, did it come with 14.9.2?


----------



## djwilso

I had a reboot yesterday with my Elite as well. First time in a long time.


----------



## bitzerjdb

I had a lot of reboots when I first purchased the Elite....It seemed stable for the last month or so, last night it rebooted during the late news. Nothing was recording...


----------



## Teeps

bitzerjdb said:


> I had a lot of reboots when I first purchased the Elite....It seemed stable for the last month or so, last night it rebooted during the late news. Nothing was recording...


How long have you had the Elite?


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## HazelW

Teeps said:


> Wow, not what I wanted to hear, as I'm on the fence about buying an Elite.
> 
> But, because of the on going problem with my S3 after adding a tuning adapter, last June. I'm not ready for more TiVo inc. related problems, with a completely new and unmodified product.
> 
> So, I wait and watch...
> 
> Did your TiVo start rebooting after the latest software update (14.9.2)?
> Or, did it come with 14.9.2?


I got 14.9.2 right away so it was stable under that for 10 days or so and then started rebooting.


----------



## Teeps

HazelW said:


> I got 14.9.2 right away so it was stable under that for 10 days or so and then started rebooting.


Again, not what I wanted to hear.
Which makes me wonder if every Elite machine is suffering with this rebooting problem...

I hope all the folks on this thread have contacted TiVo support and reported this problem. If you have not, it would be a good idea to do so asap.


----------



## ADG

Clearly not every Elite is having this problem. People who are not having the problem aren't posting. Do the math.


----------



## Teeps

ADG said:


> Clearly not every Elite is having this problem. People who are not having the problem aren't posting. Do the math.


What math is there to do?


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## todd_j_derr

I wonder how many people's Elites are rebooting and they aren't aware of it or assume it was due to software update, etc.

Mine has only rebooted twice where I actually *saw* it reboot, and I think it's only ruined one recording, but I'm pretty sure it reboots several times a week. It's not terribly obvious when it happens and there's no way to look at a log of when it rebooted AFAIK.

Still, I'm a sucker and just bought a second Elite. I'll see what happens with it, although it's not connected to the TV I usually watch so it's going to be hard to tell.


----------



## tomm1079

i have never had my premiere or my elite do a "random" reboot.

maybe im just lucky. I am guessing it has to do with my setup somehow.


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## gteague

my elite has only been running about 3-4 days now. it rebooted multiple times when i tried to copy sp items from my s3 (or actually, from the service website memory of what was in the s3 when it died), so i didn't blame it too much for that. but it also rebooted when i:

1) accidentally knocked out the tuning adaptor plug
2) plugged in an external esata drive
3) plugged in the bluetooth usb receiver for the slide remote
4) hit the button on the bluetooth receiver to pair it with the remote
5) replaced a cable card

and a couple of other times where i've forgotten exactly what was going on at the time.

/guy


----------



## beejay

Teeps said:


> I hope all the folks on this thread have contacted TiVo support and reported this problem. If you have not, it would be a good idea to do so asap.


I called when my Elite rebooted the second day I had it. Their suggestion that I should remove all inputs for 3 days to eliminate the possibility it is a problem with an input was not an appealing choice.

I'm hoping someone with more patience (and less desire to record with their new DVR) will help TiVo figure out that even a "bad" cable or internet signal should not cause the DVR to reboot.


----------



## aaronwt

todd_j_derr said:


> I wonder how many people's Elites are rebooting and they aren't aware of it or assume it was due to software update, etc.
> 
> Mine has only rebooted twice where I actually *saw* it reboot, and I think it's only ruined one recording, but I'm pretty sure it reboots several times a week. It's not terribly obvious when it happens and there's no way to look at a log of when it rebooted AFAIK.
> 
> Still, I'm a sucker and just bought a second Elite. I'll see what happens with it, although it's not connected to the TV I usually watch so it's going to be hard to tell.


I can look at my router log to see if the Elite has rebooted. I have my router email me the log every day.


----------



## HazelW

todd_j_derr said:


> I wonder how many people's Elites are rebooting and they aren't aware of it or assume it was due to software update, etc.
> 
> Mine has only rebooted twice where I actually *saw* it reboot, and I think it's only ruined one recording, but I'm pretty sure it reboots several times a week. It's not terribly obvious when it happens and there's no way to look at a log of when it rebooted AFAIK.
> 
> Still, I'm a sucker and just bought a second Elite. I'll see what happens with it, although it's not connected to the TV I usually watch so it's going to be hard to tell.


There are several way to tell. The cablecard diag screen (Cisco) has the last reboot time. If you leave the settings menu on a particular item )say, network) it will go back to that item except if there was a reboot. 
And finally, it seems to put all tuners on the same channel after a reboot.


----------



## todd_j_derr

None of those ways are apparent if you don't know to look for them, and none of them are reliable - especially if you're not the only one using the Tivo. My CableCard (Motorola) does not show uptime in the diags, but it begs the question of why it's not just available in some Tivo menu. I may be mistaken but didn't the S1 used to show uptime? I know for sure I used to be able to look at the logs, even without hacking it.

aaronwt - I assume you're looking at DHCP requests? I'll have to see if my router logs those, it's at least something.

I bet if every time the Tivo rebooted it put up a big red screen saying "Your Tivo has rebooted, press <Tivo> to continue", we'd be seeing a lot more reports of reboots. And what beejay said is spot on - the whole premise that "bad signal" is a valid reason for the Tivo to reboot is completely ridiculous.


----------



## Teeps

todd_j_derr said:


> And what beejay said is spot on - the whole premise that "bad signal" is a valid reason for the Tivo to reboot is completely ridiculous.


In the Thread "Premier Reboot poll."
There is a poster (#11) that said he had the problem until attenuating the SNR down from 50 to 31.

Something else to consider? I don't know... attenuators are cheap & easy to install.


----------



## gteague

when i came home from work this morning i had no channels at all. i cursed my cable company and power-reset my tuning adaptor although it had a solid amber light. this didn't work. i then re-booted the tivo and the channels came back. then i cussed tivo.

when i woke up this afternoon i had pixellated pictures on many channels and many other channels wouldn't display at all although menus were ok. this time i re-booted the tivo and everything cleared up. then i cussed tivo some more.

this new elite seems to be a half-baked product with the tivo programmers making no progress in many irritating areas in the 5 years since i first bought my s3. the elite is obviously bleeding edge hardware tech, but without software stability and user-interface responsiveness and improvement to match it isn't worth the upgrade.

and about the signal strength coming into the cable card, when i first got the s3 they found my signals too 'hot' and attenuated them.

and just exactly as i was typing that line my channels have again disappeared. this is beyond irritating! and i have had no time in the two weeks since i got the box to call tivo.

[later note: i pulled the ta cable out of the usb port and replaced. still no channels. then i pulled the cable card and replaced. about 5 minutes later my channels came back. arrrrrrrgh!]

/guy


----------



## Arcady

I've had my Elite hooked up for 75 days and it hasn't rebooted on its own yet, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Teeps

Arcady said:


> I've had my Elite hooked up for 75 days and it hasn't rebooted on its own yet, as far as I can tell.


Does your cable co use SDV & Tuning Adapter?


----------



## Arcady

No SDV or TA. And the Elite is still on 14.9.2.


----------



## gteague

i have both. i went to bed at 0800 this morning after the elite working fine for over 12 hours. when i awoke at 1600 no channels were working. this time i tried some of the diagnostics and everything looked ok with the tuners although i didn't know exactly what to look for. there didn't seem to be a reboot. yesterday i fixed this by pulling and re-inserting the cable card, but this time i'm re-booting from the menu. what a pain in the butt! and i'm sure any recording during the day are toast. it seems like sometime during the day it received some signal it didn't like and froze all the tuners or perhaps some sort of hardware glitch. i have no idea. but i'm absolutely sure the cable company couldn't deal with it except by me replacing the tuning adaptor or the cable card. reboot solved this instance, but i'm sure it would have stayed frozen until that was done.

/guy


----------



## ADG

gteague - no offense, but while you do seem to have either a problematic unit or a problem with your cable cards, it is not directly related to the topic of this thread.


----------



## gteague

well, i did originally post about re-boots. but in the course of investigating and documenting the problem it seems to have moved from the reboots to channels freezing up. i was posting in the interest of continuity instead of just dropping off and no one ever knowing if i discovered the problem or not. if you'll check the history of my posts in this thread i think you'll find this is correct. sorry if i've offended your sense of what you consider 'on-topic'.

also, user '@teeps' posted about snr signal levels and my posts seem to be germane to that and i've actually had experience with snr levels with my previous s3. so if you don't want my input, i'll look for another forum.

/guy


----------



## xbr23

i had a couple of reboots in the first 2 weeks of ownership. i no longer have reboots, i have issues the "channel not available". called the cable company several times to have them send a signal to the cable card but that does not solve my issue.


----------



## aaronwt

Teeps said:


> In the Thread "Premier Reboot poll."
> There is a poster (#11) that said he had the problem until attenuating the SNR down from 50 to 31.
> 
> Something else to consider? I don't know... attenuators are cheap & easy to install.


50!?!? That is extremely hot. Mine are between 34 and 38.
If I didn't have an 8 way splitter on my FiOS feed it would be way too hot.


----------



## gteague

aaronwt said:


> 50!?!? That is extremely hot. Mine are between 34 and 38.
> If I didn't have an 8 way splitter on my FiOS feed it would be way too hot.


well, i wasn't going to post again in this thread since my input was questioned (i'm guessing because i was complaining about other elite problems) but i got off the phone with tivo a couple of hours ago and according to a tech there, here's what we should be seeing on the /account & system information/dvr diagnostics screen:

Signal Strength: >80 (mine is >90)
SNR: <35 (mine is 36-37db)
RS Uncorrected: zero(0) (mine is a whopping 6050)
RS Corrected: zero(0) (mine is 155)

[there is a screen for each tuner, but my readings for each tuner basically mirror each other]

tivo tech says these are the 4 most critical readings and my SNR and RS indicated i need to get the cable company to check coax and levels. yeah, i'm sure i'll have good luck with that--most of the tw techs who have come here don't know a decibel from a cow bell! [g]

/guy


----------



## aaronwt

gteague said:


> well, i wasn't going to post again in this thread since my input was questioned (i'm guessing because i was complaining about other elite problems) but i got off the phone with tivo a couple of hours ago and according to a tech there, here's what we should be seeing on the /account & system information/dvr diagnostics screen:
> 
> Signal Strength: >80 (mine is >90)
> SNR: <35 (mine is 36-37db)
> RS Uncorrected: zero(0) (mine is a whopping 6050)
> RS Corrected: zero(0) (mine is 155)
> 
> [there is a screen for each tuner, but my readings for each tuner basically mirror each other]
> 
> tivo tech says these are the 4 most critical readings and my SNR and RS indicated i need to get the cable company to check coax and levels. yeah, i'm sure i'll have good luck with that--most of the tw techs who have come here don't know a decibel from a cow bell! [g]
> 
> /guy


On my Elite I always have an initial number of corrected and uncorrected errors.(my Two tuners Premieres typically have none). But the error count doesn't increase. On mine it's only from when I first tune the channels. If I check the error numbers a few hours later they will not have increased.


----------



## gteague

aaronwt said:


> On my Elite I always have an initial number of corrected and uncorrected errors.(my Two tuners Premieres typically have none). But the error count doesn't increase. On mine it's only from when I first tune the channels. If I check the error numbers a few hours later they will not have increased.


ah! that makes sense. sort of like in cisco routers when you pull an interface cable and replug it, that will cause hundreds if not thousands of crc errors when you show the interface counters. but it's not thousands of errors--they were all generated from one event. typically you zero the counters and then watch to see if they increment over time, but we have no such control over the catv counters.

or i could have the comparison completely wrong ...

/guy


----------



## bitzerjdb

Teeps said:


> How long have you had the Elite?


Since October.


----------



## todd_j_derr

aaronwt said:


> On my Elite I always have an initial number of corrected and uncorrected errors.(my Two tuners Premieres typically have none). But the error count doesn't increase. On mine it's only from when I first tune the channels. If I check the error numbers a few hours later they will not have increased.


That is exactly what I see as well. No matter how many times I tell them that I have yet to have a tech say "hm, that is odd".


----------



## todd_j_derr

I got my wife another Elite for Christmas... I checked it out the other night, and uptime (based on OOB tune start) looked like 900k seconds, >10 days - I don't think it's rebooted at all since I set it up.

So, I checked my "main" Tivo and it's uptime is now >1M sec (~12 days). It had been rebooting several times a week if not daily. I didn't change anything else and I don't think there's been any software update (I didn't get the new s/w I've read about yet).

So, I don't know what to think, although if it stays this way I'll be very happy whatever the cause was. FWIW, both Tivos show the exact same RS corrected/uncorrected behavior as mentioned above, I think that is a complete red herring on Tivo support's part.


----------



## gteague

another chapter in my ongoing saga. my elite was losing the channel signals once or twice a day--and strangely, only when i _wasn't_ watching which is very strange indeed because the only difference in watching and not watching is that the tv is on or off--the tivo stays on all the time.

tivo had recommended that i get the cable company back out to check levels, but i knew my levels were just off by a point or two at most--if that--and the cable company rarely deals in such subtleties. so i called tivo back yet again and we had about a four hour call in which the tivo tech had me record four frequency-separated channels simultaneously while we recorded diagnostic info. then we took the tuning adapter out of the line and did it all over again. then we removed the cable input, rebooted, and repeated again. at the end of all this the only thing the tivo guy could offer was that it would be worthwhile to try another tuning adapter.

i called the cable company that evening and luckily they had an 8-12 appointment the very next day and i told the csr what tivo had recommended and asked that the tech bring a replacement tuning adapter for me to try out.

and of course the tech shows up the next day without a tuning adapter! par for the friggin' course--idiots! but he checked all the levels and my cables and although he didn't find anything amiss (the cable company and tivo have different standards as to what is acceptable, btw, as if that surprises anyone) he promised to send another tech out to check out my outside wiring to the cable box outside my window.

and even without the tuning adapter replacement my elite has been running good for nearly 48 hours now. i'm thinking that since we removed and replaced every chunk of coax and removed and replaced all the components we might have dislodged some grime or dirt or replaced an iffy splitter with a good one. in any event, i hope things hold up as they are since the tivo has finally seemed to settle down and play right for the first time since i installed it two weeks ago.

/guy


----------



## gteague

before i headed to my 12-hour overnight shift yesterday at 1600 i checked to make sure my channels were active. in fact, when i left all 4 tuners were active. while at work i checked back in using the tivo page to show 'my shows' on the box and up until about 2300 it showed to be recording new shows. but then no new shows from 2300 until i left work at 0600 so i was convinced it had lost access to signals and would be locked up when i got home, but to my delight all my channels were available when i powered my tv on and the 'uptime' for the cable card is approaching 60 hours now.

so why doesn't the 'my shows' on the web page update more often? i thought the tivo checked back in with the service every 10-20 minutes. is there another way to remotely check whether your box is working?

/guy


----------



## rrg

The Elite is receiving the new Premiere software update that's being rolled out, correct? It's a substantial code rewrite according to what I've been reading.

It will be useful to find out if there are still spontaneous reboots happening to any Elites running the latest software.


----------



## Wendy in NY

I purchased and installed my Elite when it became available back in October I think. Since then, it has randomly rebooted about 6 times. The reboots have been sporadic in that I've been watching a pre-recorded show, a live show or nothing at all. I became very frustrated when it decided to reboot during the Terra Nova season finale so I missed a chunk of the show. When it happened then (that was the 5th time), I chatted with a TiVo tech and he gave me instructions to run a hard drive test. Unfortunately the TiVo did not behave as the instructions stated. The 6th time it rebooted was this past Friday the 6th at which time I chatted with another Tech. This tech had me remove everything that was deemed external from the TiVo: the coaxial cable, the bluetooth connection for the slide remote, the Eternet cable and the Cable Card. Essentially, all that was left was the connection to the TV and the power to the TiVo. Like this, I watched pre-recorded shows for a little over a 6 hours and the TiVo didn't reboot. I chatted with the same Tech again and he said that we'd have to leave the box like that until there are anymore reboots, if any. I said it's not feasible to leave it that way because there are programs that need to be recorded. Instead, he ask that I try running the hard drive test with the TiVo in its current state without the external connections.

I started the S.M.A.R.T. hard drive test on Sunday, 1/8/11 at 11:30AM EST. It goes in segments testing every aspect of the hard drive with a time estimate for each segment. The extended test took about 367 minutes and the final "offline" test estimated a time of 637 minutes which started at exactly 6:01 PM. Everything that I would've normally recorded on Sunday night I didn't get. When I woke up this morning the 9th, the offline test surpassed its estimated time by 100 minutes and was still going at 7 AM EST when I left for work. I hope that it's done by the time I get home from work later today but unfortunately anything that I record throughout the day I won't have.

The good news is that everything up until the offline test had PASSED. The tech told me yesterday that he suspects it could be the cable card but I was using the same cable card when I had the Tivo Premiere XL. I'm so frustrated because I'm a Cablevision subscriber (hate them) and have ALWAYS had problems with their DVR boxes. I went with TiVo because I hear it's a blissful experience--and it is--but this rebooting nonsense is really throwing a wrench in the scheme of things--especially when it's happening while shows are being recorded.

Oh, when the TiVo rebooted the 6th time, instead of it going through its rigamarole of "just a few more minutes", it was doing a software upgrade which totally changed the look of the menu. The tech told me that perhaps the upgrade may fix things. We'll see...

One last thing. I can always tell that something's amiss when my remote suddenly decides to stop functioning and then Boom! a reboot. I remember the first time it rebooted I had to reprogram the remote.

- Wendy

P.S. <please TiVo God, please let my TiVo Elite behave!!!>


----------



## beejay

Wendy in NY said:


> The tech told me that perhaps the upgrade may fix things. We'll see...


I certainly look forward to hearing if this upgrade fixes this issue for others. I've had random reboots in the past (averaging maybe 1 a week recently...) and am hoping this is fixed by software.

I almost feel like I'm in an abusive relationship. I so much want to love my Elite, but every so often it slaps me for no apparent reason.


----------



## djwilso

beejay said:


> I almost feel like I'm in an abusive relationship. I so much want to love my Elite, but every so often it slaps me for no apparent reason.


Wow, that is the perfect way to put it. I never thought of it that way.


----------



## SafariKC

rrg said:


> The Elite is receiving the new Premiere software update that's being rolled out, correct? It's a substantial code rewrite according to what I've been reading.
> 
> It will be useful to find out if there are still spontaneous reboots happening to any Elites running the latest software.


I can tell you so far on my Elite since Friday - no reboots on 20.2 - I rebooted 1 or two times a day on 14.9.2 - I suspect the software has indeed been improved for many cases.

I too was asked by Customer service to run endless hard drive tests / cable card swaps - right now, looks like they did indeed know about and/or accidentally fixed a bug that was pretty horrid for me... For that - I'm thankful.


----------



## gteague

damm i'm sick of this crap! my new elite went 3 days without losing signal/channels and just now as i was watching live tv they all just disappeared again. i first unhooked the cable from the back of the tivo for 30s, then replaced it. no good. then i removed the usb cable to the tuning adaptor for 30s. still no good. i rebooted the tuning adaptor. no good. finally i pulled the cable card and then re-inserted it and my channels returned. i need at the minimum another tuning adaptor to try (tivo's recommendation), but i can't get the idiots at time-warner to send me one--they've sent two techs out, neither of which brought a tuning adaptor with them. i may have to try to get to a cable office and see if they'll swap mine out. also, i have the 2nd cable card from my dead s3 which i didn't activate and i guess i can try to get tw to activate that card to try although it took me 3 days of hours on the phone to get them to activate the first one--it's not like they know what they're doing.

this elite is rapidly becoming as much of a pain to get going as my s3 was 5 years ago when i spent most of every business day of 3 weeks on the phone with time-warner trying to get the cable cards to work. then i had signal level problems, but i've had two techs out here last week who swore up and down that all my levels were within spec and all splitters and connections and coax was in good shape.

it just goes to show how crappy a product what passes for tivo competition is that we are willing to put up with this crap in order to use the tivo over the alternative. otherwise this is completely unacceptable. tivo has been compared to apple (not by me), but steve jobs wouldn't have tolerated this sort of user experience where the burden is completely on the user to do research and do 99% of the work to fix any problems for 10 seconds.

/guy


----------



## ADG

gteague said:


> damm i'm sick of this crap! my new elite went 3 days without losing signal/channels and just now as i was watching live tv they all just disappeared again. i first unhooked the cable from the back of the tivo for 30s, then replaced it. no good. then i removed the usb cable to the tuning adaptor for 30s. still no good. i rebooted the tuning adaptor. no good. finally i pulled the cable card and then re-inserted it and my channels returned. i need at the minimum another tuning adaptor to try (tivo's recommendation), but i can't get the idiots at time-warner to send me one--they've sent two techs out, neither of which brought a tuning adaptor with them. i may have to try to get to a cable office and see if they'll swap mine out. also, i have the 2nd cable card from my dead s3 which i didn't activate and i guess i can try to get tw to activate that card to try although it took me 3 days of hours on the phone to get them to activate the first one--it's not like they know what they're doing.
> 
> this elite is rapidly becoming as much of a pain to get going as my s3 was 5 years ago when i spent most of every business day of 3 weeks on the phone with time-warner trying to get the cable cards to work. then i had signal level problems, but i've had two techs out here last week who swore up and down that all my levels were within spec and all splitters and connections and coax was in good shape.
> 
> it just goes to show how crappy a product what passes for tivo competition is that we are willing to put up with this crap in order to use the tivo over the alternative. otherwise this is completely unacceptable. tivo has been compared to apple (not by me), but steve jobs wouldn't have tolerated this sort of user experience where the burden is completely on the user to do research and do 99% of the work to fix any problems for 10 seconds.
> 
> /guy


Once again, this has nothing to do with the topic in this thread.


----------



## Wendy in NY

After I got home from work yesterday, the S.M.A.R.T. hard drive test was completed. It took over 24 hours but I'm glad I ran it and ruled out anything wrong with the Elite's hard drive (everything passed). The last portion of the test was the offline test which was estimated at 637 minutes but actually took about 1300 minutes. I reconnected everything one at a time and nothing happened. Hopefully the software update fixed things. Now I wait.

All in all, compared to the crappy service I was getting when I was using Cablevision's DVR box, TiVo is a godsend.


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## rrg

If there's even one instance of a spontaneous reboot on an Elite that's running the new firmware, I hope the owner will post that fact here.


----------



## Arcady

I'm interested to see if the people who had reboots under 14.9.x still have reboots under 20.2, and if anyone who had no reboots under 14.9.x starts getting them after 20.2.

I'm still waiting for 20.2 on my Premiere and Elite.


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## wackymann

My Elite has been running flawlessly for a couple of months now. I've heard good things about 20.2, but to be honest, I'm not really looking forward to it. Things can only get worse for me since everything is working perfectly at the moment!


----------



## Razorbak

Arcady said:


> I'm interested to see if the people who had reboots under 14.9.x still have reboots under 20.2, and if anyone who had no reboots under 14.9.x starts getting them after 20.2.


My Elite had a spontaneous reboot this morning, but it's still on System Software 14.9.2. Fortunately, nothing on my To-Do List was taping (just TiVo Suggestions).

When my System Software finally updates to 20.2, I will be sure to post if/when I get another spontaneous re-boot.


----------



## Wendy in NY

rrg said:


> If there's even one instance of a spontaneous reboot on an Elite that's running the new firmware, I hope the owner will post that fact here.


I will definitely post if my TiVo reboots after having received the upgrade. The upgrade on Friday made the TiVo reboot and at the time I had suggested to the tech that it would be nice if the customer were to receive a message on the TiVo with options letting us choose when the update should run since this particular updated interrupted a recording at the time.


----------



## beejay

Wendy in NY said:


> The upgrade on Friday made the TiVo reboot and at the time I had suggested to the tech that it would be nice if the customer were to receive a message on the TiVo with options letting us choose when the update should run since this particular updated interrupted a recording at the time.


I thought "normal" reboots happened at 2am and didn't run (or were delayed?) if something was being recorded.

It sounds like you had a spontaneous reboot and since the new software had been downloaded, it was installed during the "unscheduled" reboot.


----------



## rrg

That seems plausible.

So, so far, no reports of a spontaneous reboot of an Elite running the new firmware.

But it's still too early to tell, I know.


----------



## Wendy in NY

beejay said:


> It sounds like you had a spontaneous reboot and since the new software had been downloaded, it was installed during the "unscheduled" reboot.


That's exactly how it happened. It was about 8:30ish EST on Friday. Reboots at 2 AM would be much better. Today is Day 1 of no reboots with the upgrade so if by the end of 2 weeks there are no random reboots, then I'd say I'm golden. I hope.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I just got 20.2 today so I'll keep an eye out - although as I posted earlier, my Tivo managed to go almost 2 weeks with no reboots while it was still running 14.9.2.

20.2 looks nice so far.


----------



## rrg

Checking in; the thread has been quiet for almost a week.

No one running 20.2 has any reboots to report?


----------



## Wendy in NY

rrg said:


> Checking in; the thread has been quiet for almost a week.
> 
> No one running 20.2 has any reboots to report?


Week 1 with 20.2 and still no reboots--knock on wood! However, I did find some others who have 20.2 and are experiencing reboots:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481648

and here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481299

and here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481274


----------



## beejay

I haven't had a spontaneous reboot since installing 20.2. I've been up nearly 7 days now. 

With 14.9.2 I did have 15 days without a reboot at one point, but I was averaging a reboot every 129 hours.

If I know my Poisson distribution, the chances of staying up 7 days with a 14.9.2 error rate is 33%.

I'm hopeful that I've had a significant improvement with 20.2.


----------



## rcobourn

Have had a couple of reboots on 20.2 while starting transfers from another TiVo.


----------



## wmhjr

I do not believe I've gotten the new firmware yet, however I experienced my first spontaneous reboot on Friday or Saturday evening while just watching recorded content on the Elite. No transfers, etc going on at that time. 

I will also mention that over the past week, the Elite has really "slowed down" significantly. I made zero changes, absolutely nothing. However, it's started to become far more sluggish in terms of responding to the remote. I rebooted the Elite manually to see if it changed anything but it did not. I obviously am using only a fraction of the capacity of the Elite.

Where I was very impressed by the performance (and reliability) of the Elite, I am no longer so satisfied. The Elite is now no faster than my HD (and I'm using the SDUI) and the reboot scares me.


----------



## TiVoMargret

rcobourn said:


> Have had a couple of reboots on 20.2 while starting transfers from another TiVo.


Please email me details about which boxes/software versions were used as the source and destination of the transfers, your TiVo Service Numbers, timestamps, and any other details. ([email protected]).

Thanks,
--Margret


----------



## todd_j_derr

Still looking good for me, mine has been up ~9 days since it rebooted to pick up 20.2, and it was up for ~12 days using 14.9.2 before that. I'd still love to know what "fixed" it because I didn't change a thing.

Well, I did change one thing, which was adding a second Elite upstairs around the time my downstairs Tivo stopped rebooting. It could just be a coincidence, but given I have no idea why it was rebooting before or why it stopped, who knows. FWIW, I don't really do transfers - I tried it once to see how it worked (plus once to Tivo Desktop) but that's it.


----------



## YoungGemini

I've been having the spontaneous reboots for about a week (I've had my Elite for almost 2 weeks).

Mine will go a few days w/o a reboot and then might reboot twice in 2 days. Luckily it only rebooted once during a recording which I was able to tell it to grab the next airing of the program.

Does anyone know if 20.2 will fix this? I just checked & I'm still on 14.9.

Any word on how long Tivo plans to take on distributing 20.2 to people?


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## beejay

There were a lot of posts (including from me) in this thread about spontaneous reboots in 14.9.2. I haven't had any reboots on 20.2 yet and the level of posting has dropped. I can't, of course, promise you anything is "fixed", but I'm getting more confident daily that my problem (whatever it was) has been addressed.

I think in other threads it's said the roll-out should be complete by the end of the week. That could change, but it's probably pretty soon.


----------



## scoombs

wmhjr said:


> I will also mention that over the past week, the Elite has really "slowed down" significantly. I made zero changes, absolutely nothing. However, it's started to become far more sluggish in terms of responding to the remote. I rebooted the Elite manually to see if it changed anything but it did not. I obviously am using only a fraction of the capacity of the Elite.


I have noticed slow down over the last week as well. Especially when selecting an entry from my Now Playing list. I can be scrolling through the list, and if I press to select an item, it takes like 9 seconds before the screen changes and brings up the program info/options. I have 20.2 loaded.


----------



## wmhjr

Darn. I'm not sure if I'm happy or disappointed that others are seeing similar performance degradation on their Premieres. I know I'm disappointed overall in the fact that while I was pretty upbeat on the Elite when I got it, and was optimistic that Tivo had gotten one right - it seems as though I was premature in my celebration. I'm doing a lot of content transfer now, as the Elite just isn't very enjoyable to use at the moment. I use the 4 tuners to record content but mostly don't watch the content on the Elite because of its degraded performance. I no longer download any Amazon HD content to the Elite, since you can't transfer Amazon HD content between units (stupid). I'm about to permanently relocate the Elite as a result and put it in my least used room with a Tivo. Too bad. The Elite is now my slowest, most sluggish Tivo that I've ever had.


----------



## ADG

Same here. I don't know if it's new or not, but remote response times are certainly not what I was used to with my S3's.


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## wmhjr

Just talked to Tivo support. Not a pleasant call. The support tech basically (and frankly openly) said that 14.9.2.2 was terrible, with a ridiculously high rate of complaints, and that they "plan to stand behind 20.2". Made me ask "so you don't stand behind 14.9.2.2?" Then I find that there is no way for them to prioritize delivery of 20.2 even if you have significant issues that they "claim" are resolved by it. Instead, he tried to convince me to ship the box back and get a replacement at a cost of $49, even though I only bought the Elite in late October.

Just when I thought Tivo was getting their act together, they totally destroy my optimism. The Amazon HD pixelation issue is certainly unacceptable, but is not a critical defect. I would be unsatisfied because of it, but still OK if the basic functions of the Elite were solid. They are not. It is now slow, and unreliable. And the very strange and worrysome thing is that it was not that way at first, and that it because sluggish, unresponsive in some cases, and started to spontaneously reboot with no warning 2.5 months after being put into service, with no reported software updates, etc. So why, with no changes, does the behavior change? Not a good sign. I absolutely and seriously wish I had not bought the Elite at this point.


----------



## gteague

when i got my new elite last month i was unable to tolerate the new hd menus and reverted to sd. when i got the software update last week i was happy to be able to use the hd menus as performance had improved tremendously compared to the last software version.

but, in my experience and opinion, the performance using the hd menus has gradually degraded over the course of the week to the point where i am contemplating again turning them off and using the sd menu system.

it is disappointing since the hd performance was finally acceptable the first few days the new software was in operation.

note: let me add that i no longer have the spontaneous reboots i had when i first installed the elite (and they did quit happening _before_ the software update), so i apologize if i'm off topic for this thread, but thought i'd jump in with my experience on the menu performance postings.

/guy


----------



## beejay

gteague said:


> i apologize if i'm off topic for this thread, but thought i'd jump in with my experience on the menu performance postings.


I'd like this thread to be "intermittent spontaneous reboots" only. There are plenty of other threads to complain about HD menu performance.


----------



## wmhjr

beejay said:


> I'd like this thread to be "intermittent spontaneous reboots" only. There are plenty of other threads to complain about HD menu performance.


I'm not sure you want to completely segregate this to only speaking of the reboots. In my case, the spontaneous reboots started happening at exactly the same time that menu performance degraded. Though I will say that this was with the SDUI - not the HDUI. They may well be related, and that may be something to continue to track. I for one am interested in any possible correlation between the two.


----------



## ADG

wmhjr said:


> I'm not sure you want to completely segregate this to only speaking of the reboots. In my case, the spontaneous reboots started happening at exactly the same time that menu performance degraded. Though I will say that this was with the SDUI - not the HDUI. They may well be related, and that may be something to continue to track. I for one am interested in any possible correlation between the two.


If the poster isn't experiencing reboots I agree the post does not belong in this thread.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I agree - let's keep this thread about the reboots (per the thread title), if there's a performance issue then please start a new thread about it. I am not seeing that issue.

I was hoping to happily report that my uptime had crossed 1M seconds again but alas - when I checked it appears my Tivo rebooted on Friday at 4:45 am (edit: that still makes ~3 weeks without a reboot, aside from rebooting for the 20.2 upgrade which was obviously necessary and expected).


----------



## wmhjr

IF the performance issues are tied to the reboots then it should be mentioned here in order to maintain visibility of the correlation. The FACT that some folks are reporting degraded performance at the exact same time that the spontaneous reboots start is not something that should be disregarded. That is EXACTLY how event correlation and root cause analysis are based. I agree that we should not include "just" performance issues in this thread assuming that they are not starting at the same time as the spontaneous reboots.

So, sorry but I'd like to see the correlated comments here.


----------



## wmhjr

todd_j_derr said:


> I was hoping to happily report that my uptime had crossed 1M seconds again but alas - when I checked it appears my Tivo rebooted on Friday at 4:45 am (edit: that still makes ~3 weeks without a reboot, aside from rebooting for the 20.2 upgrade which was obviously necessary and expected).


I have not checked to see, but have you also reported this in the thread specifically about reboots AFTER the 20.2 upgrade? That is a very important element of information. It's pretty early to say with any authority, but it seems as though at the very least we can assume that 20.2 did not solve ALL of the spontaneous reboot issues for people, which is obviously both bad news, and a very different situation from what Tivo is communicating right now.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Will do, thanks.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Is anyone using an Elite with a Cisco Tuning Adapter?

If so what is the firmware version FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_*F.1402 or F.1501*

Also who is your Cable Provider.


----------



## rcobourn

I have the 1402... also Cox Phoenix.


----------



## beejay

CoxInPHX said:


> Is anyone using an Elite with a Cisco Tuning Adapter?
> 
> If so what is the firmware version FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_*F.1402 or F.1501*
> 
> Also who is your Cable Provider.


Do you suspect this is the reason for your spontaneous reboots?


----------



## sbiller

CoxInPHX said:


> Is anyone using an Elite with a Cisco Tuning Adapter?
> 
> If so what is the firmware version FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_*F.1402 or F.1501*
> 
> Also who is your Cable Provider.


My provider, Bright House Networks, appears to still be on 1402. I'm investigating whether or not they are planning on an update in the near future.


----------



## jweinberger

Many, many reboots with Elite (XL). TiVo support can't figure it out and has taken to explaining why it's not their responsibility (questionable approach...).

Any help is appreciated!

Mine is a Premier XL with no attachments or expanded or adapters. Wired Ethernet. Last updated last night. Any other helpful details?

Thanks!


----------



## todd_j_derr

Premiere Elite and XL are two different things, and at least initially I believe people were having rebooting problems with the former but not the latter. I'm not sure if that's changed now that they're both running the same software version (14.9.2 or 20.2).

No one has been able to explain the reason for the reboots AFAIK. It sounds like you've already discovered that Tivo support will ask you to do some ridiculous dance with unplugging things.


----------



## jweinberger

Todd_j_derr, you are correct. They have put me through a silly disconnect/reconnect exercise that had no effect, as expected. I've had three messages exchanged since then with no additional support or suggestions. Not sure this can be solved without a software update.

But the nearly-every-night restart is really annoying!


----------



## djwilso

CoxInPHX said:


> Is anyone using an Elite with a Cisco Tuning Adapter?
> 
> If so what is the firmware version FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_*F.1402 or F.1501*
> 
> Also who is your Cable Provider.


F.1402, Cox Phoenix


----------



## CoxInPHX

beejay said:


> Do you suspect this is the reason for your spontaneous reboots?


I asked the Question because I am considering an Elite purchase, and know there are multiple reports of rebooting issues with the Cisco TA and FW version F.1402, which is what Cox is using.

Most of these reports come from TWC and BrightHouse using a Ceton InfinTV 4 and WMC. But I am wondering if any 4 tuners could be an issue with this Cisco Firmware, and since Ceton has been around much longer than the Elite, it would make sense it would show up there first and more often.


----------



## rcobourn

CoxInPHX said:


> I asked the Question because I am considering an Elite purchase, and know there are multiple reports of rebooting issues with the Cisco TA and FW version F.1402, which is what Cox is using.
> 
> Most of these reports come from TWC and BrightHouse using a Ceton InfinTV 4 and WMC. But I am wondering if any 4 tuners could be an issue with this Cisco Firmware, and since Ceton has been around much longer than the Elite, it would make sense it would show up there first and more often.


I just added an Elite. While I've had some reboots, I don't feel that any of them are related to the TA. They have mostly happened while doing transfers. I had one sudden reboot during a recording, but it wasn't an SDV channel.


----------



## sbiller

What's the definitive method to determine the last reboot time of the box? I've been using the CableCARD diagnostic screens but was wondering if there was something better I should be looking at.


----------



## CoxInPHX

sbiller said:


> What's the definitive method to determine the last reboot time of the box? I've been using the CableCARD diagnostic screens but was wondering if there was something better I should be looking at.


Which box? TiVo or TA?

For the Cisco TA: Tuning Adapter Diagnostic > Status Summary > Select for NextPage > CLOCKS: Booted

For the TiVo: It used to show seconds since last reboot in the System Info. But I do not see it there any more. Possibly removed in 14.9 or 20.2


----------



## sbiller

CoxInPHX said:


> Which box? TiVo or TA?
> 
> For the Cisco TA: Tuning Adapter Diagnostic > Status Summary > Select for NextPage > CLOCKS: Booted
> 
> For the TiVo: It used to show seconds since last reboot in the System Info. But I do not see it there any more. Possibly removed in 14.9 or 20.2


I was actually thinking the TiVo but knowing that the TA is possibly rebooting is important as well. I've reached out to BHN to see if they are going to deploy the new TA code but so far I haven't received a satisfactory response.

I think I can find TiVo up time in the CableCARD diagnostics section.


----------



## astrohip

sbiller said:


> What's the definitive method to determine the last reboot time of the box? I've been using the CableCARD diagnostic screens but was wondering if there was something better I should be looking at.
> 
> 
> CoxInPHX said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the TiVo: It used to show seconds since last reboot in the System Info. But I do not see it there any more. Possibly removed in 14.9 or 20.2
Click to expand...

It's under System Info, DVR Diagnostics (I think that's the name, I'm not in front of my TiVo). Scroll towards the bottom, look for time since OOB Tune (again, may not be exact wording). This shows # of seconds since last reboot.


----------



## CoxInPHX

astrohip said:


> It's under System Info, DVR Diagnostics (I think that's the name, I'm not in front of my TiVo). Scroll towards the bottom, look for time since OOB Tune (again, may not be exact wording). This shows # of seconds since last reboot.


You're correct, it is under DVR Diagnostics


----------



## Scooter80

My 2 cents on "spontaneous" reboots. I just got an Elite yesterday, though have been dealing with Premieres for over a year now and TiVo's for a decade.

I got my new Elite up and running and had read about the rebooting and was delighted mine appeared unaffected. Then it began happening a couple hours later. I was fuming!! But I was also right in front of the computer watching it happen. Why? Because I was online on TiVo, transferring Season Passes from older boxes to my new Elite. So I wandered over here to look around for any consensus yet. The rebooting stopped. So I went back to TiVo to continue my Season Pass housekeeping. As soon as I accessed the new Elite on that website, it rebooted. *My rebooting was definitively tied to the TiVo online tools!!! * (awful as they have become to use. Slow and reloading after one action) I think, all told, it rebooted four or five times in a row while I was using the tools.

Now, I say "spontaneous" above because I have my TiVo on my desk with the TV right above my computer monitor, so it was easy for me to tell when my reboots were happening and why. Perhaps this is not so easy for others and their reboots are happening while they were at work, or in another room, or the like. But maybe the common denominator is the TiVo online tools?

Just a thought.

And for reference: after setup, my Elite quickly updated to 20.2 software update and was running that. No reboots since I stopped using the online tools early yesterday evening.


----------



## rrg

While the TiVo online tools for transferring Season Passes are problematic in this regard (as you and others have discovered) it seems clear that there's more to it than that. Many users have encountered truly spontaneous reboots that occur at unpredictable times.

The reports are less frequent since 20.2 was rolled out, but there does seem to be evidence that it's still an issue.

For now it's enough to keep me from repurchasing the Elite (I returned mine). As old as they are (5 years), my Series 3s have been so rock-solid that I still won't give them up, not even for a four-tuner one-cablecard solution. Not until the new solution is trustworthy.


----------



## beejay

Scooter80 said:


> As soon as I accessed the new Elite on that website, it rebooted. *My rebooting was definitively tied to the TiVo online tools!!! *


You saying that as soon as you go Season Pass Manager at tivo.com your TiVo reboots?

I don't think there can be any possible connection because those aren't immediate changes but are made during the next time the TiVo makes a connection to "headquarters".

Am I wrong?


----------



## Scooter80

beejay said:


> You saying that as soon as you go Season Pass Manager at tivo.com your TiVo reboots?
> 
> I don't think there can be any possible connection because those aren't immediate changes but are made during the next time the TiVo makes a connection to "headquarters".
> 
> Am I wrong?


That is exactly what happened. I didn't think they were real-time either, but it appears they are at least making some communication. And I just tried it again this instant and duplicated it!! I didn't think it would and was hoping it was a fluke, but it happened again! I transferred a season pass from an old S3 to the new Elite. As soon as the TiVo online Season Pass manager screen went from the grayed out "please wait" type screen to the normal screen and showed the season pass transferred, the Elite rebooted.

I wasn't trying to suggest this is the *only* reason for the reboots others have mentioned. I only wanted to throw it out there as a troubleshooting tool for people to think about. If they used the Season pass mgr online earlier in the day, that COULD be the reason they see their Elite has rebooted. Believe me I know it could be more. My experience with my PremiereXL when it was first released was NOT a pleasant one!


----------



## gteague

fwiw, the web season pass page issue has been known (and according to tivo margret in a 01/08 thread), will be acted on.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8890886#post8890886

/guy


----------



## bitzerjdb

Tivo Elite...

Ugh....still rebooting. Four or Five times since the upgrade last Tuesday. I just went into My Shows, the next screen was OK, hit page down and bam...a reboot.

Frustrating to say the least.


----------



## cneubert

Do you guys know if it is in any way related to your nightly updates? I have 2 Premieres and one of them reboots every day. I have checked many times and it appears to consistently reboot within 1.5 to 2 hours after the last connection. I'm 99% sure this happens every day without fail.


----------



## jmpage2

I just experienced my first spontaneous reboot with the new TiVo Elite I bought 2 weeks ago. It got the 20.2 update last Tuesday. I use the HDUI.

It was taping 3 or 4 shows, I hit the "shows" shortcut, it switched to shows view but no shows were listed. I did nothing else, and about 10 seconds later it rebooted itself.

Probably going to return it. Absolutely unacceptable in a box that's been in development for well over a year and sells for $499.


----------



## duerrs

I have a strange one, i was streaming a show from my livingroom tivo to my bedroom tivo, i had the livingroom tivo reboot while watching on the bedroom tivo. living room is a premier and bedroom is a premier xl. I'm going to call those clowns when i get home. I dont know what they are going to say but i had no issues at all until 20.2 so its going to be interesting to see how they try to blame everything else. Perhaps its the solar storms on the sun.


----------



## Wendy in NY

Well, after weeks of not having a spontaneous reboot after receiving the 20.2 upgrade, today, 1.30.12, at this very moment at 9:25 PM EST, my TiVo rebooted. I was watching a pre-recorded program and Alcatraz was recording which means that it's now MUCKED up. I am SO disappointed. What does this mean??? I had the feeling something was going to happen because for the last couple of days things have been degrading i.e. slow response from my slide remote.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??? I thought that when I got rid of my 5th problematic Cablevision box that TiVo was the light at the end of the tunnel. WTF???  If this were a Thursday I'd be really peeved as that is the day that all 4 tuners are going at it. Now I'm back to feeling that uneasy feeling that I used to have with the Cablevision box.

Ok, so here's my chat conversation with a TiVo tech:

_Wendy: I bought and installed the Tivo Elite sometime in October. Since then, I'd been experiencing random reboots. On 1.9.12, the TiVo rebooted and it then updated with 20.2. At the time, the tech I spoke to instructed me to run a S.M.A.R.T. hard drive test. The results were successful. I was also told that the 20.2 upgrade resolves the random reboots. Today about 10 minutes ago, the TiVo rebooted. I was watching a pre-recorded program and only 1 program was recording which of course is now missing a chunk. What gives?

Angela: I can definitely help you with your questions! 
Angela: Rebooting for updates is normal, besides earlier tonight and the 20.2 update, have you noticed any other reboots?

Wendy: I understand reboots for updates but is it suppose to reboot randomly while programs are being recorded? I got the 20.2 update on 1.9.12 and before that the box had rebooted randomly about 6-7 times. After the 20.2 upgrade the box had not rebooted--at least not while I was watching anything (if it rebooted during the night or while I was at work I wouldn't know.) After the 20.2 upgrade, the box had not rebooted and I truly thought the issue was resolved until today, another random reboot.

Angela: I see, if the reboots are still occurring after updating the software, then I may recommend ruling out other connections. One of the easiest things to try is replacing the CableCARD.
Angela: Since these reboots seem to be pretty random and far apart it does make it harder to troubleshoot.

Wendy: I can call the cable company to have that replaced but before the Elite, I had the Premiere XL with the same cable card and there were never any reboots.

Angela: Another issue that can cause rebooting that is easy to rule out is the power source. You can try replacing the power strip if you have one connected.

Wendy: The Tivo is plugged into the wall outlet.

Angela: Sometimes taking the CableCARD from one box and installing it a second time can damage the card.

Wendy: I can give that a shot I guess.

Angela: In that case, you could try adding a surge protector strip for troubleshooting. The TiVo box is sensitive to power fluctuations that not all other devices notice.
Angela: We do not see power issues as often when connected direct to the wall though, so you may not need to do that if replacing the CableCARD resolves it.

Wendy: I had it on a power strip when the random reboots were consistent and after the update, I moved it over to the wall outlet. I will call the cable company to replace the cable card.

Angela: Sounds like the most logical next step. Let us know if the reboots reoccur with the new CableCARD and we can troubleshoot further.

Wendy: Ok, thanks._Really? Really.


----------



## aaronwt

Does the second counter in the DVR diagnostics section go over 1 million? I was near 1 million a few days ago but now I noticed I'm near 300k. So it either rebooted at some point or it reset to zero at 1 million. I guess I need to check my router logs from a few days ago.


----------



## sbiller

aaronwt said:


> Does the second counter in the DVR diagnostics section go over 1 million? I was near 1 million a few days ago but now I noticed I'm near 300k. So it either rebooted at some point or it reset to zero at 1 million. I guess I need to check my router logs from a few days ago.


I think an alternative location to determine time the box last booted is here










I like the way it give you the actual date and time v the seconds only.


----------



## cosmicjoke

lol, wow, just bought one of these suckers... can't weigh in yet, cable card is being delivered today... a bit apprehensive now... anyone having this issue w/ comcast? (assuming the potentiality of it being due to bugginess with particular provider's cablecards).. mine will be being hooked up w/ comcast in downtown portland, or... will try to take note of what particular cablecard is being used and then stress test the elite with as much recording/watching as i can stomach for the next few days to see if i can replicate the problem.


----------



## aaronwt

sbiller said:


> I think an alternative location to determine time the box last booted is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the way it give you the actual date and time v the seconds only.


I don't get a screen like that with my Motorola Cable Cards here on FiOS. The only way for me to see the time since boot is from the TiVo Diagnostics screen.


----------



## jmpage2

cosmicjoke said:


> lol, wow, just bought one of these suckers... can't weigh in yet, cable card is being delivered today... a bit apprehensive now... anyone having this issue w/ comcast? (assuming the potentiality of it being due to bugginess with particular provider's cablecards).. mine will be being hooked up w/ comcast in downtown portland, or... will try to take note of what particular cablecard is being used and then stress test the elite with as much recording/watching as i can stomach for the next few days to see if i can replicate the problem.


Yes, mine rebooted spontaneously and I am on Comcast. Better yet, it rebooted while I was recording some shows. Super awesome.


----------



## rrg

This is all so depressing.

I'm certainly a TiVo booster, but I have to say that the lamest thing about all this is not just the fact of the spontaneous reboots--which is bad enough, and the reason that I'm staying away from the Elite for now--but the fact that TiVo's tech support continues to waste people's time with these "change-your-cablecard, disconnect everything" responses.


----------



## jmpage2

rrg said:


> This is all so depressing.
> 
> I'm certainly a TiVo booster, but I have to say that the lamest thing about all this is not just the fact of the spontaneous reboots--which is bad enough, and the reason that I'm staying away from the Elite for now--but the fact that TiVo's tech support continues to waste people's time with these "change-your-cablecard, disconnect everything" responses.


Well, there are two possibilities.

One possibility is that they literally don't understand what the problem is, and so these are the things they try to resolve the issue.

The more likely possibility is that they don't know how to fix all of the reboot causes and to buy time for engineering (and to keep the customer from returning the unit and/or canceling service) they have their CSRs (who they keep in the dark) try all of these idiotic tricks with consumers.

What they SHOULD be doing is contacting customers that have spontaneous reboots so that they can set up debugs and diagnostics on those customer units and get a better understanding of what is causing the issue.

Any company with 1/2 a brain does this to diagnose reboot issues, I know that my company does.

TiVo clearly doesn't have a clue and/or their engineering skill set has gone in the toilet in the last couple of years.


----------



## scoombs

aaronwt said:


> Does the second counter in the DVR diagnostics section go over 1 million? I was near 1 million a few days ago but now I noticed I'm near 300k. So it either rebooted at some point or it reset to zero at 1 million. I guess I need to check my router logs from a few days ago.


Mine was at ~1.7M seconds on Saturday when I shut it down to make a backup copy of the drive.


----------



## aaronwt

scoombs said:


> Mine was at ~1.7M seconds on Saturday when I shut it down to make a backup copy of the drive.


Thanks. So my Elite and XL must have rebooted around the same day. I need to check my bedroom Premiere too. At least whenever the reboots happened it wasn't recording anything. Since I have not had any messed up recordings.


----------



## Wendy in NY

So my TiVo rebooted during the day yesterday while I was at work and it corrupted, according to Geek Squad, the HDMI ports on my flat panel for several hours. Today when the geek was at my place to check my TV, he said that the reboots may be corrupting the HDMI ports for several hours at which time I'd have to disconnect things from the TV for at least 20 minutes to an hour, reconnect and everything should be fine. Anyway...

When I checked the TiVo stats, sure enough, there was a reboot while I was at work yesterday. Now, when I press the TiVo button to go to the menus, everything is there but the menus are no longer HD and they're at their most basic interface. I checked my version and it's still 20.2 but what the hell is this now? I can't wait to get home to talk to TiVo to get that fixed. WTF? I did transfer a program over for the first time using TiVo Plus. Could that have done that? ARGH!!!


----------



## L David Matheny

Wendy in NY said:


> So my TiVo rebooted during the day yesterday while I was at work and it corrupted, according to Geek Squad, the HDMI ports on my flat panel for several hours. Today when the geek was at my place to check my TV, he said that the reboots may be corrupting the HDMI ports for several hours at which time I'd have to disconnect things from the TV for at least 20 minutes to an hour, reconnect and everything should be fine.


I can't imagine how a TiVo could "corrupt" an HDMI port. And if it could confuse the circuitry somehow, I would expect power cycling the units to fix it. I suspect that the "20 minutes to an hour" was a smokescreen to allow him to get away without answering any more questions. OTOH, the HDCP aspect of HDMI is an abomination, so maybe anything is possible.


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## jmpage2

Yes, there's no "corruption" of HDMI ports. Even if the handshake on it got messed up, a reboot of the components would straighten it out.


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## JediMaster109

I have had my Tivo Elite for 4 months now, pretty much as soon as the Elite came out I got one. I have had only 2 reboots since I have had mine and none since the 20.2 update that I got in early Jan. I have also only used the HDUI...

So there are only a few things that I can think of that are causing the reboots...
#1 I have mine hooked up to an APC Battery Backup that also regulates the power.
#2 I have the apps turned off for Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon on Demand, the only one that shows up is the YouTube one wish you can't turn off. My line of thinking is turn off the things that I wont be using, I'm looking forward to a newer Netflix Interface that they are working on but after all I did buy it for a DVR, not a streamer...
#3 Faulty Hardware or perhaps your is jammed in a cabinet and it's overheating. 

So those are my 2 cents, I hope some on this forum might try these things and see if things improve for you...


----------



## jmpage2

My Elite is also on an APC battery backup, so the power supply is not the issue.

It's not overheating, because it's installed in a thermally controlled cabinet with two large case fans that keep the ambient temperature around 70 degrees.

I highly doubt it's "bad hardware" either, because it is working fine 99% of the time.

I also do not have any of the extra apps turned on, so I doubt that's the problem either.

I think perhaps that this IS a software issue, just one that most users don't encounter very often.

It's also entirely possible that you HAVE had spontaneous reboot of your device (if you don't check the up-time there's no other way to be sure) and it just hasn't happened at a time that made it obvious to you.


----------



## JediMaster109

jmpage2 said:


> My Elite is also on an APC battery backup, so the power supply is not the issue.
> 
> It's not overheating, because it's installed in a thermally controlled cabinet with two large case fans that keep the ambient temperature around 70 degrees.
> 
> I highly doubt it's "bad hardware" either, because it is working fine 99% of the time.
> 
> I also do not have any of the extra apps turned on, so I doubt that's the problem either.
> 
> I think perhaps that this IS a software issue, just one that most users don't encounter very often.
> 
> It's also entirely possible that you HAVE had spontaneous reboot of your device (if you don't check the up-time there's no other way to be sure) and it just hasn't happened at a time that made it obvious to you.


No I have only had the two reboots and one of them was when I was watching a recorded show, I've been following this forum for a long time and always check at times daily haha. So who knows what it is, maybe a bad signal from the cable company. It would be interesting to see what percentage of people have problems... Obviously those who are having problems show up here


----------



## jmpage2

You are free to believe whatever you like. I had a TiVo HD on the same physical cable feed, power circuit, etc for over three years and it never once spontaneously rebooted. The only thing different is the Elite.


----------



## aaronwt

I had a reboot tonight, and now I think I know why. The last time I had a reboot I had deleted a season pass online. I did the same thing tonight and a short time later I had a reboot. But that issue does not seem to be occurring with my two tuner Premieres.


----------



## jmpage2

aaronwt said:


> I had a reboot tonight, and now I think I know why. The last time I had a reboot I had deleted a season pass online. I did the same thing tonight and a short time later I had a reboot. But that issue does not seem to be occurring with my two tuner Premieres.


In the case of my reboot we didn't do anything other than press the "shows" button in the HDUI.

Fortunately it has not happened since, so TiVo has earned a short reprieve from me getting all pissy on them and returning it.


----------



## beejay

aaronwt said:


> I had a reboot tonight, and now I think I know why. The last time I had a reboot I had deleted a season pass online. I did the same thing tonight and a short time later I had a reboot. But that issue does not seem to be occurring with my two tuner Premieres.


There's another thread where this is identified as a known issue that TiVo (I think) expects to have fixed in a future (next?) release.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

beejay said:


> There's another thread where this is identified as a known issue that TiVo (I think) expects to have fixed in a future (next?) release.


I recall someone else saying that, and providing a link to the post. I don't recall TiVo saying they were working on a fix though. Would you post a link?

Edit: Found it. No confirmation that a fix is on the way - only that they are "looking into it".


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## todd_j_derr

Just checking in - my uptime is currently ~1.7M seconds or approximately 20 days. So, I've essentially gone from rebooting several times a week to one (unexpected) reboot in the past 6 weeks. And AFAIK I haven't changed a thing. I'm still seeing RS Corrected/Uncorrected (only at tune time, they never increment afterwards).


----------



## aaronwt

On the reboot because of SP deletion, I was able to repeat this bug. I deleted an SP online again and a short time later my box rebooted . So I think every reboot I had was from when I was messing around with my Season Pass list online. From now on I will just be messing with the season passes locally on my Elite


----------



## Dave95125

I had an Elite for about 3 weeks just after they came out around October. With trepidation I returned the Elite for a full refund. My cost was the return shipping to Texas, and the emotional toll of disappointment.

Checking back on this thread I feel my choice was the best. I bought a 2nd TIVO HD. The units are stacked next to my HDTV. The TIVO HDs are flawless. I review the To-Do-List history periodically on my primary unit to find any programs that need a season pass on the second unit due to schedule conflicts. This is not bad at all. I have four tuners and reliable service.

I was prepared to buy another Elite if the reboot problem was fixxed, but now that it is February I expect they will never fix it. TIVO will just continue to shovel customers bulls**t. 

My bet: TIVO is using a flawed compiler.

Pick up two TIVO HDs with Lifetime on ebay. Get rid of the Elite any way you can.

GLTA


----------



## aaronwt

Dave95125 said:


> I had an Elite for about 3 weeks just after they came out around October. With trepidation I returned the Elite for a full refund. My cost was the return shipping to Texas, and the emotional toll of disappointment.
> 
> Checking back on this thread I feel my choice was the best. I bought a 2nd TIVO HD. The units are stacked next to my HDTV. The TIVO HDs are flawless. I review the To-Do-List history periodically on my primary unit to find any programs that need a season pass on the second unit due to schedule conflicts. This is not bad at all. I have four tuners and reliable service.
> 
> I was prepared to buy another Elite if the reboot problem was fixxed, but now that it is February I expect they will never fix it. TIVO will just continue to shovel customers bulls**t.
> 
> My bet: TIVO is using a flawed compiler.
> 
> Pick up two TIVO HDs with Lifetime on ebay. Get rid of the Elite any way you can.
> 
> GLTA


Why would I want to do that? You couldn't pay me to go back to using a TiVoHD. I had to use multiple TiVos in the same room for ten years. The Elite ended that and I never looked back. Although if I were going to replace an Elite with two, dual tuner TiVos, it would be Premiere TiVos.


----------



## PrimeRisk

I was an Elite Rebooter, but I've been rock solid since 20.2


----------



## caddyroger

PrimeRisk said:


> I was an Elite Rebooter, but I've been rock solid since 20.2


Mine was rock solid to with the 20.2 update until last night. I was transferring a program from my pc to the tivo. About 2 min of watching a recorded show it rebooted. I have been getting jerkiness in live programs on the tivo when transferring programs.


----------



## Drewster

My Premier XL just rebooted while I was watching a NetFlix program.


----------



## rrg

Again, not that we don't care, but...we're specifically talking about the Elite units here, which have had issues beyond anything reported in the other Premieres.


----------



## Raphael

I bought an Elite about a month ago. I've had 5 or 6 reboots. Seems random. It's happened just watching a recorded show with nothing else recording. It's rebooted while recording 3 shows and transfering from a computer. 

I don't buy that it's a power supply or cable card issue. I had an S3 in same location that only rebooted if I moved the esata cable on the added hard drive. My Elite is pluged into a ups and my hdmi and coax cable are the same as before with the S3. I'm on Verizon Fios and my S3 still works fine where I moved it to.

So with this issue all over the forum this is a TiVo software or hardware issue. I really hope they find a fix soon.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Raphael said:


> I bought an Elite about a month ago. I've had 5 or 6 reboots. Seems random. It's happened just watching a recorded show with nothing else recording. It's rebooted while recording 3 shows and transfering from a computer.
> 
> I don't buy that it's a power supply or cable card issue. I had an S3 in same location that only rebooted if I moved the esata cable on the added hard drive. My Elite is pluged into a ups and my hdmi and coax cable are the same as before with the S3. I'm on Verizon Fios and my S3 still works fine where I moved it to.
> 
> So with this issue all over the forum this is a TiVo software or hardware issue. I really hope they find a fix soon.


For all owners, I really hope this a software fix.


----------



## aaronwt

I've just stopped messing around with the online Season Pass manager for my Elite. Since that is what seems to cause my box to reboot. I haven't messed with it for a while and I've had no reboots. If I were to mess with it right now, my box will reboot a short time later.


----------



## Jimf1234

aaronwt said:


> I've just stopped messing around with the online Season Pass manager for my Elite. Since that is what seems to cause my box to reboot. I haven't messed with it for a while and I've had no reboots. If I were to mess with it right now, my box will reboot a short time later.


Just use the ipad/android app to manage your tivo. It is a much better solution.


----------



## aaronwt

Jimf1234 said:


> Just use the ipad/android app to manage your tivo. It is a much better solution.


I need to troubleshoot the Android TiVo app. It never saw any of my TiVos on my network and also didn't have an option to enter an IP address.


----------



## Jimf1234

You need to make sure your on the same network with the androids wifi. The you will need to select your tivo and enter your media key. You also need to make sure that network remote is enabled under settings on your tivo.


----------



## aaronwt

Jimf1234 said:


> You need to make sure your on the same network with the androids wifi. The you will need to select your tivo and enter your media key. You also need to make sure that network remote is enabled under settings on your tivo.


Yes, everything is as it should be but I don't see them. With TiVo Commander I can at least enter the Ip address of theTiVo I want to control. Unless the Official TiVo App was updated, there was no option to manually enter the Ip address the last time I checked.

I never got around to trouble shooting it. But I will probably need to do it soon since I don't want to mess with the online Season Pass option with the Elite to avoid any reboots.


----------



## nandopr

For three months my Tivo Elites are working fine (so far). Maybe once or twice, there was a problem. That is all. Why is stable now? I have no idea.

My local cable company (Brighthouse Networks) will update the TA firmware soon. They said that it will fix this problems for some users. Here is the link...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=483154

# 4

But I know many folks still having problems and they are not using the TA.

==================

"The actual Firmware is listed slightly incorrect, by the OP, It should be as follows:
(SciAtl and Cisco are the same and share the same Firmware

From Old: FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402 (added 6 Tuner capability, FCC Mandate) May 27, 2011
and Image File Version: 1.0.0.1402

To New: FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1501 (fixes stability and rebooting issues when using 4 tuners) ~Sept, 2011
and Image File Version: 1.0.0.1501"
__________________
Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, 20.2-01-2-746, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1402
Cisco Tuning Adapter Status Troubleshooting
Last edited by CoxInPHX : 02-15-2012 at 03:13 PM.
"


----------



## todd_j_derr

Well, I checked a day or two ago and my tivo had passed 2.6M seconds (30 days!)... but just now, all 4 tuners on the same channel, uh oh - sure enough it rebooted less than an hour ago, I was out of the room when it happened.

Possibly significant is that I finally activated the 6 month Hulu Plus free trial. I messed around with it on my Tivo and played an episode of community. That was probably 2-3 hours ago, I was definitely watching live TV again after I exited the hulu plus app... but it crashed an hour or two later.

PS: I also checked the upstairs Tivo last night but the "DVR Diagnostics" screen has no text on it, which I've never seen before. It draws the background but there's no text, up/down arrow make the "click" sound no matter how many times I push them and channel up/down make the "gong" sound. I can't do anything but exit out. I tried multiple times and via both paths (Settings->Info->Diagnostics, it's also a few levels deep in theCable Card install menu). So, I don't know how long it's been since it has rebooted (my cablecard does not provide an uptime).


----------



## aaronwt

My Elite hasn't rebooted since I last messed around with the Season Passes online. I'm around 1.2M seconds now.


----------



## brianfuchs

My Elite (about 20 days old) just rebooted for the first time while I was using it (I have no idea if this has happened out of my eyesight).

I have FiOS, and was recording three programs, and watching one. I hit the FF a few times to speed past a commercial. The first one took, and I saw the orange (remote) light on the TiVo remain lit. About 5 seconds later: Reboot.

I have not encountered any partial recordings since I've had it, so clearly it hasn't rebooted before while recording.


----------



## Wendy in NY

Since my 20.2 upgrade, at this very moment, my TiVo is going thru it's 3rd spontaneous reboot. I was watching a recorded program and 2 shows were recording which as you know, I've now lost a chunk of the 2 shows that were recording.

I used to have Cable Vision and had a slew of problems with their box which is why I went to TiVo and now have another problem.

When the F are they going to fix this and stop telling me that I need to change my cable card???????


----------



## aaronwt

I still have not messed with any of the online Season Pass stuff and my Elite is now getting near 2M seconds(23 days) since the last reboot.(it's over 1.8M seconds)


----------



## cosmicjoke

i don't really watch tv, got the elite for my partner, and finally heard the first hollering since getting rid of the comcast box (oy)... sure enough it rebooted last night (latest firmware) after about a month of owning... i first registered on these forums after getting the elite and lurking around here while waiting for the cablecard and stumbling across this thread... had a bad feeling, lol, total self-fulfilling prophecy  
i'm going to look into alternatives like the infinitv 4, apparently it's down to $199 on newegg..


----------



## djwilso

cosmicjoke said:


> i don't really watch tv, got the elite for my partner, and finally heard the first hollering since getting rid of the comcast box (oy)... sure enough it rebooted last night (latest firmware) after about a month of owning... i first registered on these forums after getting the elite and lurking around here while waiting for the cablecard and stumbling across this thread... had a bad feeling, lol, total self-fulfilling prophecy
> i'm going to look into alternatives like the infinitv 4, apparently it's down to $199 on newegg..


Wow, 1 single reboot in a month and you're ditching it? That seems like an overreaction to me.

Did a bunch of recordings get missed or something? Back when I had a cable DVR, that thing would miss recordings on a regular basis for no reason.


----------



## ghuido

Had my first spontanous reboot last night. 

TIVO Premiere Elite on latest Firmware. Comcast M-Card.

While browsing netflix Queue I could not get show started. Usually this is rock solid. 
I was also transferring a show at the time. 

All of a sudden remote commands don't work and the remote light on the TIVO stays a solid Yellow.

TIVO reboots 30 seconds later. 

I'll have to monitor the up time to see if it happens again.


----------



## uw69

this has me gun shy about even considering buying an Elite.


----------



## aaronwt

uw69 said:


> this has me gun shy about even considering buying an Elite.


Why? Most people aren't having issues. For me I've have no reboots as long as I don't mess with the online Season Pass manager.

Now with Netflix, I did watch six shows last night on my elite from Netflix streaming without any problem. But the issue I had is that I needed to switch to the SDUi to run the Netflix app. I started getting an error from the HDUI this week when tryinto start the Netflix app.. I'm sure if I manually rebooted it then it would be fine. But I don't want to reboot my Elite unless there is a software update. I want to make sure I don't see any random reboots. And so far, since I stopped messing with the online SP manager, I haven't had any. If I were to mess with the online SP manager right now, the Elite would definitely reboot soon after.

Overall I have been extremely pleased with my Elite. I only wish it had a 3TB or 4TB drive inside instead of a 2TB drive.


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## Teeps

cosmicjoke said:


> i'm going to look into alternatives like the infinitv 4, apparently it's down to $199 on newegg..


They are not without warts, either.

HTPC is a whole different sort of problems...


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## rrg

aaronwt said:


> Why? Most people aren't having issues.


For me that's not good enough. Enough people are and so far there's no clear evidence that the reboots can be completely avoided by, say, not using the Online Season Pass Manager.

The all-in-one four-tuner/single-cablecard Elite--if it were reliable--would be a slight improvement over the two Series 3 units that it would replace: modestly spiffier UI, centralized Now Playing List. But the Series 3s are completely reliable, have Lifetime service, and have never missed a recording except when the listings info changed too late.

I can't justify the considerable expense and loss of reliability that re-purchasing the Elite would entail until I'm convinced that TiVo has fixed this.


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## uw69

rrg said:


> For me that's not good enough. Enough people are and so far there's no clear evidence that the reboots can be completely avoided by, say, not using the Online Season Pass Manager.
> 
> The all-in-one four-tuner/single-cablecard Elite--if it were reliable--would be a slight improvement over the two Series 3 units that it would replace: modestly spiffier UI, centralized Now Playing List. But the Series 3s are completely reliable, have Lifetime service, and have never missed a recording except when the listings info changed too late.
> 
> I can't justify the considerable expense and loss of reliability that re-purchasing the Elite would entail until I'm convinced that TiVo has fixed this.


+1, why would anyone want to plunk down $500 for the box, $400 for lifetime and possibly get a spontaneous reboot unit. You may get a good unit or you might not. I'm waiting unit this gets sorted out. Come on TiVo, you got smart folks working for you, figure it out!


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## cosmicjoke

djwilso said:


> Wow, 1 single reboot in a month and you're ditching it? That seems like an overreaction to me.
> 
> Did a bunch of recordings get missed or something? Back when I had a cable DVR, that thing would miss recordings on a regular basis for no reason.


The problem w/ the Motorola box issued by Comcast was that it would lag out (from my reading it was either due to overheating or a memory leak). You could be fastforwarding and it would take 8 seconds after spamming the play button for it to stop, and when rewinding back to the part you intended to play, the same thing would happen lol. So you really could only reliably fasts forward at 2x at the best... However, it always recorded everything and it never rebooted.... When this rebooted I'd wager it took 10 minutes to get it back up and running again... I'm not entirely sure if it was recording something, but my partner was visibly upset asking me "why can't we get one that just works?" and I sympathized...

Anyways, I don't think I'm overreacting, I'm not ditching it quite yet, because the InfiniTV 4 very well could wind up being worse lol.. I'm not gonna hold my breath, but at $200 (I already have a nice HTPC) I guess it's worth a shot.


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## cosmicjoke

Teeps said:


> They are not without warts, either.
> 
> HTPC is a whole different sort of problems...


Of course not, but apparently some people have no problems w/ the Elite, perhaps I'll not have any problems w/ the InfiniTv 4... no delusions here lol, but I don't want to give up quite yet... the Elite will still be on the backburner, maybe there will be another Firmware update.


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## aaronwt

Was there an update recently? I noticed when I got home last night that my Elite had rebooted sometime early Friday morning. But then when I checked my other Premieres with cable cards, they had also rebooted at the same time. They all have around the same time since start on the cable card menu.
They are all on a UPS so there was no power glitch or anything.

If there was no update I find it odd that they all rebooted at the same time. Two were over 2 million seconds and one was over 3 million seconds. But they all rebooted at the same time.

I wonder about my fourth box. Is there any way to tell the time since reboot on a non cable card Premiere?

At least Netflix is working on my Elite with the HDUI now.

EDIT: I see I can get the time since boot info on the page that has the sys info screen. I had always accessed it from the cable card screen under the settings menu.


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## Wendy in NY

My Elite forceably upgraded itself to 20.2 in January. Since then it has rebooted spontaneously 3 times, the 3rd being last week I think. Now, for the 4th time, here it is rebooting yet again. I was watching a prerecorded program while another was recording. Again, I've lost another chunk of what was being recorded. I'm off of work today, otherwise I would've never noticed the reboot. I wonder how many other times it's rebooted during the day or night when I'm not watching. This is ridiculous and I don't know what to do. I had so many problems when I was using the Cablevision DVR box and thought that the TiVo boxes were the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm now back to having that uneasy feeling I used to have when I had the Cablevision box--I didn't know when things were not going to record or mysteriously drop off the network. Now with TiVo, it's the same uneasy feeling only now I don't know when the box will reboot while I have shows recording. It's like Russian Roulette.

HELP!!!!!!!!


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## rrg

I'm sure others would disagree, but if I were in your position (I'm not, since i have a couple of Series 3s) I would consider getting a regular (non-Elite) Premiere or two.

Maybe even looking for Series 3s or TiVo HDs on eBay.


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## Wendy in NY

rrg said:


> I'm sure others would disagree, but if I were in your position (I'm not, since i have a couple of Series 3s) I would consider getting a regular (non-Elite) Premiere or two.
> 
> Maybe even looking for Series 3s or TiVo HDs on eBay.


I hear you. Before the Elite, I entered the TiVo world with the Premiere XL back in May 2011. No reboots or any other issues. When the Elite was introduced with 4 tuners, eureka! I had to have it. Normally, I don't acquire anything until it's been out there and kinks are worked out but the 4 tuners really sold me. That was in October 2011. I immediately started to experience the reboots. I finally contacted TiVo during a January reboot and it was actually upgrading to 20.2. The tech had me run a S.M.A.R.T. drive test (all passed) and was told that the 20.2 fixes the reboots. Ha! Four reboots later...


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## ghuido

Has anyone tracked this against 

- Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
- SDV / Tuning Adapter
- Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)

Any of those factors?

I have a straight vanilla PRemiere Elite on Comcast using M-Card. Had one reboot and other that that rock solid since 20.2


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## MeInDallas

ghuido said:


> Has anyone tracked this against
> 
> - Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
> - SDV / Tuning Adapter
> - Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)
> 
> Any of those factors?
> 
> I have a straight vanilla PRemiere Elite on Comcast using M-Card. Had one reboot and other that that rock solid since 20.2


I wish this was tracked like you suggest. I've noticed a lot of people on TWC are having the same issues I am. Seems like people on FIOS are doing well with the Elite. Too bad I cant get FIOS.


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## Wendy in NY

ghuido said:


> Has anyone tracked this against
> 
> - Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
> - SDV / Tuning Adapter
> - Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)
> 
> Any of those factors?
> 
> I have a straight vanilla PRemiere Elite on Comcast using M-Card. Had one reboot and other that that rock solid since 20.2


The only external connection I have is the bluetooth remote. I guess I can revert to using the regular remote for a while to test things out. I just wish there were some sort of rhyme or reason for the sporadic reboots. I've seen some mention using the online Season Pass feature or the TiVo desktop for transferring videos but I do neither. Stay tuned...


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## larrs

ghuido said:


> Has anyone tracked this against
> 
> - Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
> - SDV / Tuning Adapter
> - Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)
> 
> Any of those factors?
> 
> I have a straight vanilla PRemiere Elite on Comcast using M-Card. Had one reboot and other that that rock solid since 20.2


Unrelated , related question: Can you even use an external drive with an Elite?


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## MeInDallas

larrs said:


> Unrelated , related question: Can you even use an external drive with an Elite?


Yes. I know Weaknees sells the Elite with an external 2TB making it 4TB total.


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## gteague

count your blessings @wendy, count your blessings! [g] you could have my problem where all my channels go south and don't come back until i notice it and reboot. with a reboot you might lose a chunk of up to four shows. with a signal or sync loss or cable card fart or whatever this problem is, i sometimes lose two days worth of recordings. i've give anything if the tivo was smart enough to reboot itself in that situation!

/guy


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## todd_j_derr

I switched from Comcast to FIOS, no difference in reboots but tivo kept blaming "signal issues", etc. M-card, no TA, no ext drive, I do use bluetooth remote and occasionally stream/use the net to schedule.

But, for whatever reason it seems to be mostly fixed for me. I reported a reboot on Feb 20 and now my uptime is back up to ~1.8M seconds which works out to Feb. 24... so maybe I missed one (or was there an update?). I'd rather it didn't reboot at all, but once a month I can live with. Multiple times a week I couldn't. Hope it stays the way it is now, or gets better. I have no explanation.


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## DCIFRTHS

New thread here.


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## CoxInPHX

ghuido said:


> Has anyone tracked this against
> 
> - Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
> - SDV / Tuning Adapter
> - Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)
> 
> Any of those factors?
> 
> I have a straight vanilla PRemiere Elite on Comcast using M-Card. Had one reboot and other that that rock solid since 20.2


I asked for detailed info in a new thread that isn't getting much traction, hopefully users can start posting their setup:

Elite Owner Set-up Info Comparison
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=485328


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## makattack

My latest incident with a sort of soft-reboot:

TiVo Premier XL 20.2-01-2-748
Signal Sources: Comcast with 2 Cable Cards + 1 OTA Digital TV via indoor antenna
Output: HDMI to AVR + HDTV (all HDMI)

Symptoms: From standby, hit TiVo button on standard IR controller. Immediately presented with just the small preview video on upper right, and black/blank screen where HD Menu would normally be. IR remote didn't result in any changes -- couldn't zoom, etc. Had to resort to Android based TiVo app (official) in order to control unit. Was able to successfully start a recorded show.

Upon completion of show, using Android app to delete the completed show resulted in a blank screen, followed shortly (less than a minute, but more than 30 seconds) by the THX preview and intro logo. So, this tells me it wasn't a full reboot.

TiVo HD menu was then presented properly and IR remote worked.

Up to this point, I had probably last used the TiVo unit last week, around Thursday (5 Apr)


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## Bighouse

CoxInPHX said:


> I asked for detailed info in a new thread that isn't getting much traction, hopefully users can start posting their setup:
> 
> Elite Owner Set-up Info Comparison
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=485328


It would be most helpful if everyone would list their TiVo units and cable provider in their signature like you do!


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## aaronwt

I wonder if they finally changed something with the online SP manger? I have messed with it at least half a dozen times over the last week and it has not caused any reboots. If both my Elites had 20.2.a I could say that was the reason. But only my new Elite is on that version. I just know I've been messing with it almost every day now and it has not caused a reboot on either box. Prior to last Friday it would always reboot a short time after messing with the online SP manager.


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