# I'm officially done with DirecTV



## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

I have been a loyal subscriber with DirecTV for some years now. I am an "A+ member," whatever that means. But, I have been a TiVo user much longer, since ~1999. I have 2 HR10-250s and 1 SD DirecTiVo. My HR10-250 in my bedroom just started acting up and the Protection Plan people said that I would be getting an HR20 instead of an HR10. That really chaps my hide! I went to DirecTV because they had TiVo built-in to the receiver. They have failed to keep up with the new TiVo developments and now have stopped making them altogether. Their new DVR is crappy, slow, and I hate the interface.

Although I fear that the picture quality will not be as good, I'm going to switch to cable. I have TimeWarner in my area so we'll see how that goes. I just ordered 3 Series 3 TiVos and will probably order 1 Series 2 DT at some point. I also ordered 6 CableCards. We'll see how not smoothly this installation goes. But, I refuse to give up my TiVo just because some dumba$$e$ at DirecTV screwed the pooch on the deal with TiVo. I WANT MY TiVo! Are you getting this DirecTV? You just lost a $140/month customer because you aren't supporting TiVo any longer! I'm so mad I could spit!


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> Their new DVR is crappy, *slow*, and I hate the interface.


Slow? The 3.1.x HR10 takes the prize when it comes to slow.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Good luck. I really wish DirecTV cared about these things; but as far as anyone can really tell, they don't. Maybe when/if Liberty Media takes over things can turn around with the DVR offerings.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

If it makes you feel any better, I would bet that the PQ might actually be slightly better on cable, as they have a bit more bandwidth to play with. Post back on your CC experience.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Hats off for jumping in with both feet. I'm not quite so brave. I'll be getting an S3 to try around next Christmas. Once my commitment is up in January '08 I'll suspend DTV service until I'm confident that cable is the right choice.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

When you cancel DirecTV be sure to tell them why!

You can make it short and sweet. Tell them it's one short word: *TIVO*.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

bidger said:


> Slow? The 3.1.x HR10 takes the prize when it comes to slow.


I have 6.3a and have been very happy with the performance. The only trouble with speed on the 3.1.x box that I experienced was when dealing with Season Passes. Everything else performed very speedily. Are you saying that you prefer the HR20 over the HR10?


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

TyroneShoes said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I would bet that the PQ might actually be slightly better on cable, as they have a bit more bandwidth to play with. Post back on your CC experience.


I hope you're right. I had TW (formerly Adelphia in my area) at my old house and I think there were problems with the lines. Analog channels looked terrible and digital channels had artifacts all over the place. Our new house is new construction so hopefully all the lines will be good here. I'll definitly let you know how the conversion goes...


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> When you cancel DirecTV be sure to tell them why!
> 
> You can make it short and sweet. Tell them it's one short word: *TIVO*.


Absolutely. I'm sure they'll try to talk up their new DVR and say how great it is and that it has the same functionality, though. That's what the Protection Plan rep tried to do. I don't want their crappy DVR. I want TiVo and I will tell them that. It's a shame because I'm actually really happy with the PQ and programming on D*. But, TiVo comes WAY above all that. I will happily give up a few channels to keep my TiVo. D* has really underestimated the loyalty behind TiVo. I hope more people will join me in voting with their wallets. If you can't have TiVo, go somewhere else. Bye, bye DirecTV! Thanks for nothing!


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> I have 6.3a and have been very happy with the performance. The only trouble with speed on the 3.1.x box that I experienced was when dealing with Season Passes. Everything else performed very speedily.


You'll notice I said "3.1.x" and it was more than just SPs. You could prep a meal in the time it took to schedule a recording and get confirmation from the Guide. I find 6.3a to be an improvement and I don't have the audio dropout issues that other people have because I don't have the antenna needed for ATSC OTA here. There's only one channel anyway.

I do see strangeness in other areas though, especially in how the HR10 handles my SP for "Arrested Development" on HDNet Wednesday nights. It records the first ep. then when I go to view the 2nd, the buffer from the 1st ep. is included with it. On the last one it starts @ the 40:50 mark. 



jschmidt said:


> Are you saying that you prefer the HR20 over the HR10?


In some areas I prefer the HR20, like speed, Free Space Indicator, ability to watch recording shows and still access Guide and Menu, the fact that you can power down, and that it acts more like a DirecTV receiver than TiVo does. I prefer the dual buffers and overall reliability of the HR10, but I have had very few missed recordings with the HR20 and by very few I mean one partial. The major issues I had were in the first few weeks with NFL ST recordings where when the screen went black, the HR20 would delete the show. AFAIK, the issue has been addressed, at least I don't see the volume of posts about it at DBSTalk.

In fairness, I don't have MPEG-4 so I don't see the issues people do in those markets. I've seen what TiVo can do from both from both a standalone and integrated perspective, I was just ready to try something new. I do find myself using the HR20 more now, partly because there's more space available and partly because I do like the interface.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Dang, glad you have over $2000 just laying around to plop down on 3 Series 3 Tivo's. Most don't.



jschmidt said:


> Their new DVR is crappy, slow, and I hate the interface.


On the HR20 if there is anything it is, it certainly isn't slow. It beats the pants off any DirecTivo of any model of any generation when it comes to speed.

And for someone else who asked, yes, I much prefer the HR20 to Tivo. To the point where I'll get a second HR20 after the holidays. When I go back to my DirecTivo now it pains me how slow and clunky the interface is (and this coming from Tivo person since 2000). But then we all have our preferences on interface but too many people here are "If it's not Tivo it must suck" and won't even try.

The HR20 does indeed have some stability troubles now for some, for me I've had very little trouble at all. But anyway, the HR20 is certainly not slow, that's for sure. I can hit the guide button and set about 10 programs to record in the amount of time it takes to set 1 to record on a Tivo. That's what I call speed.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> But then we all have our preferences on interface but too many people here are "If it's not Tivo it must suck" and won't even try.


Well, to be honest, I think the people who truly feel that way _should_ stay with TiVo. If the DVR is your priority and you feel you have to stick with a platform, by all means do so. It's like I saw in a thread on DBSTalk, if you gotta have TiVo, shell out for a S3 or the TiVo Gods will haunt you and your DVR. I paraphrase, but I truly believe that for some folks that's just how it has to be. They won't be happy anywhere else.

Now, if you're more flexible and willing to try something new, that's a different scenario.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Why not just buy a HDTivo off ebay and activate it in place of the one that died? I would tell the Protection Plan people that you purchased the plan so you could be guaranteed to have a working HDTivo, not an HR20. Tell them you will not settle for anything other than an HR10-250 and don't take no for an answer. If they tell you that none are currently available then I would ask to be put at the top of the waiting list for a replacement when they become available.

Then again, you could simply fix the HDTivo yourself and dump the protection plan and save yourself $7.99 per month (I did). Chances are you just have a bad hard drive, which is a relatively easy fix. You can buy a replacement plug and play drive from Weaknees or PtvUpgrade, you can download an Instantcake image from PtvUpgrade and restore it to the drive of your choosing, or you can perform a backup of your existing drive and restore it to a new drive.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Dang, glad you have over $2000 just laying around to plop down on 3 Series 3 Tivo's. Most don't.
> 
> On the HR20 if there is anything it is, it certainly isn't slow. It beats the pants off any DirecTivo of any model of any generation when it comes to speed.
> 
> ...


Allow me to qualify my use of the word "slow." I have used the DVR in an in-store display. My experience with the overall user interface was that moving from menu to menu and item to item was that it took a second or two to navigate through each one. Whereas on TiVo, moving up and down through a list is much faster. I agree that setting things to record on the HR20 is faster than the TiVo, but that's not the feature that I use most often. Mostly, I am navigating through the Guide and the Now Playing list in order to access programming. I have many SPs set up and the only thing I do on a regular basis is to watch them. I rarely, if ever, set up new recordings so that performance issue on the HR10 never bothered me.

As for the expense of getting new S3s, all I can say is that they are much cheaper than the HR10-250s at $1000 each that I paid. I got the S3s for $649 each from PCSuperDeals.com.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

Congrats for making the move. I wish I had the motivation to do so also. I loved D* until about 3 years ago. Lately they suck and they don't care unless you are a season pass sports customer which I am not. I don't watch sports. Between their stupid ass customer service and arrogance to pull TNT-HD on the weekends and the lack of more HD movie channels makes me more mad everyday.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Why not just buy a HDTivo off ebay and activate it in place of the one that died? I would tell the Protection Plan people that you purchased the plan so you could be guaranteed to have a working HDTivo, not an HR20. Tell them you will not settle for anything other than an HR10-250 and don't take no for an answer. If they tell you that none are currently available then I would ask to be put at the top of the waiting list for a replacement when they become available.
> 
> Then again, you could simply fix the HDTivo yourself and dump the protection plan and save yourself $7.99 per month (I did). Chances are you just have a bad hard drive, which is a relatively easy fix. You can buy a replacement plug and play drive from Weaknees or PtvUpgrade, you can download an Instantcake image from PtvUpgrade and restore it to the drive of your choosing, or you can perform a backup of your existing drive and restore it to a new drive.


First, I am paying for the protection plan so that I don't have to buy one off of eBay. Second, I did ask them if there was any way to wait for an HR10 and they said no.

As for fixing it myself, the problem is with the HDMI port malfunctioning so I can't fix that with a new hard drive. Yes, I realize that I could use component inputs instead, but I don't want to when I've paid for the protection plan. For me, it's partly an issue of principle. I paid 7.99 a month to be able to get my equipment replaced when it fails. Now they are telling me that they can't replace it with the same thing. Instead, they call the HR20 "comparable equipment with comparable features." To me, it's not comparable at all.

It's like the difference between a Cadillac and a Yugo. Sure, they are both drivable and can get you to your destination, but you can't say that the driving experience is comparable. Not the same experience at all.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> I have used the DVR in an in-store display.


I used a TiVo in an in-store display before I bought one, but it told me next to nothing about what the unit could do.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

bidger said:


> but it told me next to nothing about what the unit could do.


Why is that?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

jschmidt said:


> I have been a loyal subscriber with DirecTV for some years now. I am an "A+ member," whatever that means. But, I have been a TiVo user much longer, since ~1999. I have 2 HR10-250s and 1 SD DirecTiVo. My HR10-250 in my bedroom just started acting up and the Protection Plan people said that I would be getting an HR20 instead of an HR10. That really chaps my hide! I went to DirecTV because they had TiVo built-in to the receiver. They have failed to keep up with the new TiVo developments and now have stopped making them altogether. Their new DVR is crappy, slow, and I hate the interface.
> 
> Although I fear that the picture quality will not be as good, I'm going to switch to cable. I have TimeWarner in my area so we'll see how that goes. I just ordered 3 Series 3 TiVos and will probably order 1 Series 2 DT at some point. I also ordered 6 CableCards. We'll see how not smoothly this installation goes. But, I refuse to give up my TiVo just because some dumba$$e$ at DirecTV screwed the pooch on the deal with TiVo. I WANT MY TiVo! Are you getting this DirecTV? You just lost a $140/month customer because you aren't supporting TiVo any longer! I'm so mad I could spit!


Congrats! You'll love the series3! I certainly love mine, don't miss directv at ALL. The series3 blows the doors off of the HR10..


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> Why is that?


Because it wasn't until I got it home and started using it the way I wanted to use it and became familiar with it that I discovered what the unit really did. I'd seen the half hour promo that D* had for TiVo on a promo channel, I'd been to these boards, diddled around with the unit on display, but that all paled in comparison to when I actually started using it in my home environment.

ETA: Here's the thing, it's not uncommon for me to see a post on DBSTalk from someone who says that they had the HR20 for a week and then started to feel comfortable and familiar with it.


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## rickaren (Oct 30, 2002)

I believe that many that have a large investment in D* equipment (Tivo) have chosen to just wait and see, but are missing the true enjoyment of HD this Winter. For me I just couldn't get rid of everything I had from D* (did sell 3 receivers on E-bay) at a big loss, so I added DISH everything HD and their VIP622 DVR. Now I fell I have the best. I cut back on D* programing but kept their HD just in case someday they have some. Sure I now spend more monthly but my investment in HD Home Theater is being enjoyed. Maybe this time next year I can go back to only one supplier. Not sure yet, who that may be, but presently DISH is #1 in my household.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bidger said:
 

> Because it wasn't until I got it home and started using it the way I wanted to use it and became familiar with it that I discovered what the unit really did. I'd seen the half hour promo that D* had for TiVo on a promo channel, I'd been to these boards, diddled around with the unit on display, but that all paled in comparison to when I actually started using it in my home environment.
> 
> ETA: Here's the thing, it's not uncommon for me to see a post on DBSTalk from someone who says that they had the HR20 for a week and then started to feel comfortable and familiar with it.


I'll say it here...

When I first got the R15 (a year ago)... it took me about a month.. .to forget 5+ years of TiVo interaction. I knew every menu, how many clicks ect... and that was the most frustrating part of the new interface.

After that month or so... I was able to navigate the R15 very well... which in turn making the HR20 a piece a cake to function.

Just like those that had DTivo S2's, where immediately able to work with an HR10 when it came out.

Now, when I go and use my DTivo in my basement, it is frustrating as heck as I am not used to those commands anymore.... Does'nt make the TiVo interface "horrible" just different to what you are used to.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

Here's an update... I called D* to ask about my current commitment. First, they tried to tell me that my commitment extends until June of 2008. I asked them why. They said that because I had a replacement receiver activated in June, that extended my agreement. I told them no way because I had it replaced under the Protection Plan. Fortunately, in Feb. 2006, when I had another receiver replaced, the supervisor added comments negating the commitment extension. So, I got the rep to waive all extensions for all replacement receiver activations. My commitment is officially finished 1/17/06.

Then, she asked me why I was cancelling. I told her "TiVo." Of course, she tried to tout the benefits of the new DVR technology, but I told her I wasn't interested. She said she was sorry and understood. Then, she made me an interesting offer. She offered to let me buy a HR10-250 on eBay or any other method and that D* would reimburse me the purchase price. Plus she said she would give me a loyalty credit. I told her that it was a nice offer, but if I have another problem with a receiver, we're back in the same predicament... D* doesn't support TiVo any longer.

I know it's a lot of money to buy new S3s, but fortunately I can afford it. Also, to me, this is bigger than money. This is a matter of both principle and brand loyalty. I LOVE my TiVos and don't want to give them up. D* has made their bed by killing DirecTiVo and replacing it with their own technology. Now they can lie in it as people like me are turned off by their decision. I can't wait for the S3s to come and to get everything set up. I will post additional updates as the situation evolves.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> Although I fear that the picture quality will not be as good, I'm going to switch to cable. I have TimeWarner in my area so we'll see how that goes.


I put up with the SA 8300 and Time Warner (old Adelphia) for 2 years. I could not get D* due to line of site problem.

Then came the S3 and I'm here to tell you as a former D* subscriber you will not suffer from pq loss, even on the analog channels. The S3 improved my analog channels so good that I actually think they look better then the digital channels, except HD of course. And you won't get that mpeg 4 crap HD on your locals either.

You made the right decision.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> I'll say it here...
> 
> When I first got the R15 (a year ago)... it took me about a month.. .to forget 5+ years of TiVo interaction. I knew every menu, how many clicks ect... and that was the most frustrating part of the new interface.
> 
> After that month or so... I was able to navigate the R15 very well... which in turn making the HR20 a piece a cake to function.


You make a good point. I realize that there is a learning curve involved, which, over time, can be overcome. But, I'm not personally worried about the learning curve (my wife is, but that is a different matter). My concern is one of dislike and a matter of personal taste. There is no question in my mind that I could use the HR20. But, I don't like the interface and I prefer TiVo.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bidger said:


> Now, if you're more flexible and willing to try something new, that's a different scenario.


Seems like he's pretty flexible if he's willing to make the switch to cable to have a system that works the way he wants. Would the people defending the HR20 be so flexible or are they just so tied to DTV that they'll eat whatever is put on their plate?


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

nrc said:


> Would the people defending the HR20 be so flexible or are they just so tied to DTV that they'll eat whatever is put on their plate?


+2 :up:


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> When you cancel DirecTV be sure to tell them why!
> 
> You can make it short and sweet. Tell them it's one short word: *TIVO*.


They don't care. When I called and cancelled, I informed them that lack of HD and no more TiVo, her response was, "I see you are an "A+" customer and own all your equipment, if you want to return just call us and we will turn it all on again." Click.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

jschmidt said:


> D* has made their bed by killing DirecTiVo and replacing it with their own technology. Now they can lie in it as people like me are turned off by their decision. I can't wait for the S3s to come and to get everything set up. I will post additional updates as the situation evolves.


Glad you made a decision. BUT, DirecTV is going to lose very few people because they no longer have Tivo. 99% of people just don't know or care if a DVR is Tivo or not. It's all Tivo to them. The only thing that will kill DirecTV is if they can't get the HR20 stable (and it already is for the majority). Sure there are a few people on these boards that will make a jump elsewhere just for Tivo but that's very, very few and not even up to a drop in the bucket to DirecTV.

And Series 3 Tivo is even a lesser option for most because of the cost.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Glad you made a decision. BUT, DirecTV is going to lose very few people because they no longer have Tivo. 99% of people just don't know or care if a DVR is Tivo or not. It's all Tivo to them. The only thing that will kill DirecTV is if they can't get the HR20 stable (and it already is for the majority). Sure there are a few people on these boards that will make a jump elsewhere just for Tivo but that's very, very few and not even up to a drop in the bucket to DirecTV.
> 
> And Series 3 Tivo is even a lesser option for most because of the cost.


Sadly, you are probably right.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

jschmidt said:


> she made me an interesting offer. She offered to let me buy a HR10-250 on eBay or any other method and that D* would reimburse me the purchase price.


I had that offer made to me, and when I bought the receiver they then renegged on the offer. So for anybody reading this and getiing the same deal I'd be careful.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

Redux said:


> I had that offer made to me, and when I bought the receiver they then renegged on the offer. So for anybody reading this and getiing the same deal I'd be careful.


What was their explanation for renegging?


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

jschmidt said:


> What was their explanation for renegging?


DirecTV said I did not "qualify" for the offer. Therefore either I was lying, or the original rep had made a mistake in making me the offer. A supervisor was then more explicit:

I did not qualify for the offer; notes on my account specificlly stated that I did not qualify. Any rep would have seen those notes and would NOT make me the offer. So the offer had not been made. Period.

This was my second HR10-250 "reneg" situation. Many months earlier, DirecTV cancelled my order for a free ($19.95 S&H) HiDef receiver because I had benefited from a similar offer within the past 12 months. According to this supervisor, I was "calling all over the country trying to get a free HiDef." I had, in fact, made two calls to DirecTV before striking gold on the third. This supervisor did admit that the free offer had been made to me, but only because I had talked my way into an offer I didn't deserve. She said she was putting notes on my account that would immediately prevent any other rep from making me the free offer again.

So I was _very_ suprised more recently when, without my even asking (I was on the phone about another minor matter), the rep offered me the eBay reimburse deal out of the clear blue sky. But a couple of days later DirecTV renegged again.

But I'm very happy the HR10-250 I bought (thinking I would be reimbused). In fact I've bought still another one since.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

Re: HR20
If it doesn't have Wishlists, I wouldn't want it. I make VERY heavy use of Wishlists and it would be a serious limitation to me if the HR20 doesn't have them. I would also find single buffer to be annoying. I know some don't care and appreciate a LARGER buffer rather than dual buffers, but I DO care and prefer dual buffers.

I'll be trying FiOS soon. Just waiting for a convenient time.
By switching to FiOS, I'll get HBO. SHO, Cinemax, and Starz in HD instead of just HBO and SHO. The monthly fee will be cheaper, and if I don't like THEIR DVR, there's always S3. (of course that drives the expense right back up)

No rush. My HR10's are still working - but the writing is on the wall. If the HR20's had Wishlists, I'd probably stay and see what is coming down the DTV HD pike. I could probably live without dual buffers even though I wouldn't like it. I think FiOS is going to give cable and satellite companies a lot of headaches.

Jim H.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

jhimmel said:


> Re: HR20
> If it doesn't have Wishlists, I wouldn't want it. I make VERY heavy use of Wishlists and it would be a serious limitation to me if the HR20 doesn't have them. I would also find single buffer to be annoying. I know some don't care and appreciate a LARGER buffer rather than dual buffers, but I DO care and prefer dual buffers.


Re: Wishlists. Couple things, it is a "Tivo thing" with wishlists. I'm unaware of any DVR that has a wishlist function just like Tivo, I think it's one of their patents.

Anyway, the HR20 has a pretty extensive search capability including the ability to autorecord a search. It is way more then I need but then I was never a heavy user of wishlists on my Tivo's. But you can search by title, keyword, actor, etc. similar to the Tivo wishlist. Basically I think you'd need to try it and work with it for a couple weeks to see if it met your needs. But if Tivo wishlist is your #1 priority then you will have to stick with Tivo in one form or another. And I'd guess any hardcore Wishlist user will find any other DVR's search function lacking.

Dual buffers are indeed just a matter of personal preference. Since I never really watch live TV I could care less. I do watch Sunday Ticket live and flip around between half a dozen games but I don't seem to miss dual buffers at all. Just the way I use it I guess. But I know it's a top thing for many. The interactive features more then make up for it for me.

The moral of the story is that there is no one DVR out there that has all the features one would want. Each has pluses and minus. For me while I loved Tivo during it's prime, the speed and extras the HR20 gives more then makes up for lack of dual buffers. But then again, that's just my opinion.

For more detailed info on the HR20 visit the sister site at DBSTalk.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> The moral of the story is that there is no one DVR out there that has all the features one would want.


Now that would be an interesting corporate model, wouldn't it? Sell the hardware package separately. Let individuals and developers use it as a hardware platform for anything they want to create. Also provide a TiVo service implementation which can follow a one-time fee plus a guide data/monthly subscription model. If the side of the company offering the service(s) wants to subsidize hardware then they can create packages of the two. But get your hardware out there in many different ways; you can always convince someone to start using your service later if they have the hardware already. And if some third party creates better software (or just software people think is better for their specific needs), all the better; you're still out there making a profit on the hardware, too, essentially subsidizing your development costs as well.

Of course that was a good idea 4 or 5 years ago. Now that the ubiquitous Media Center PC is pretty much upon us at affordable prices (not to mention with superior hardware capabilities), TiVo probably lost out on that one, too.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

jhimmel said:


> Re: HR20
> If it doesn't have Wishlists, I wouldn't want it. I make VERY heavy use of Wishlists and it would be a serious limitation to me if the HR20 doesn't have them. I would also find single buffer to be annoying. I know some don't care and appreciate a LARGER buffer rather than dual buffers, but I DO care and prefer dual buffers.
> 
> I'll be trying FiOS soon. Just waiting for a convenient time.
> ...


The wishlists are a pretty big deal to me as well but reliability is top priority and the HR20 appears to be just as bad now as it was when it was released. I've been reading over at DBS talk about how to get around the non-recording programs issue and people are saying don't use the auto-record feature, just use the single record or series link from the guide. No thanks, I'd rather have something that works right instead.

I'm not saying I hate the HR20 and won't ever use it, but I prefer to wait until the thing works as it's supposed to. Actually, I have to wait as I can only get my local HD's ota. The HR20 STILL doesn't have the ota tuners enabled. There are some things I definitely won't miss when leaving Tivo though:

The "Peanut" remote...I HATE it. It's the most poorly designed remote I've ever used. How they thought to put the power button directly below the back skip button I'll never know.

No free space indiactor...No, I don't want to use Suggestions to try and guess how much space is on the drive.

30 minute buffers...too short.

These are all minor quibbles though and not enough to make me want to switch to the HR20. Actually, I won't switch to the HR20 until I start seeing far fewer people with problems and far less software updates! Check out the last two months in updates alone. Note that there was still another released on 11-22.

Revision History:
Version 0xF6 (11/21/2006)
Version 0xEF (11/15/2006)
Version 0xEB (11/07/2006)
Version 0xE3 (10/19/2006)
Version 0xDC (10/11/2006)
Version 0xD8 (10/04/2006)
Version 0xD1 (09/26/2006)
Version 0xCC (09/16/2006)
Version 0xBE (09/01/2006)


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

If the software updates were enhancing the feature set or making improvements other than fixing bugs, I would be impressed with weekly/monthly updates. 

Still no ATSC tuning/recording, right?

What... maybe another year and they'll be about where they were with the HR10-250... it's still just makes me think of all the "cut off your nose to spite your face" jokes.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

The HR20 doesn't support ATSC? I didn't know that! If I hadn't already made up my mind to switch to Cable/Series 3 TiVos, that would have been a deal killer for me anyway.


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## german72 (May 16, 2005)

jschmidt said:


> The HR20 doesn't support ATSC? I didn't know that! If I hadn't already made up my mind to switch to Cable/Series 3 TiVos, that would have been a deal killer for me anyway.


It Will support it just as soon as the software comes down hopefully, this month.


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## hhh222 (Jul 28, 2005)

jschmidt...I feel your pain. HD-Tivo was the ONLY reason I went with DirecTV.


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Now that would be an interesting corporate model, wouldn't it? Sell the hardware package separately. Let individuals and developers use it as a hardware platform for anything they want to create. Also provide a TiVo service implementation which can follow a one-time fee plus a guide data/monthly subscription model. If the side of the company offering the service(s) wants to subsidize hardware then they can create packages of the two. But get your hardware out there in many different ways; you can always convince someone to start using your service later if they have the hardware already. And if some third party creates better software (or just software people think is better for their specific needs), all the better; you're still out there making a profit on the hardware, too, essentially subsidizing your development costs as well.
> 
> Of course that was a good idea 4 or 5 years ago. Now that the ubiquitous Media Center PC is pretty much upon us at affordable prices (not to mention with superior hardware capabilities), TiVo probably lost out on that one, too.


Actually, DirecTV was JUST like that back in the late 1990's. It was one of those things that attracted me to their service in the first place. You didn't like the GUI on the RCA? Then buy the Sony. Sony doesn't do it for you? Buy the Phillips. And, of course, there was always good ol' standby, Hughes. But while they all shared common characteristics, the GUI's, menu structures, and features were radically different from one manufacturer to the next. So you could buy exactly what you wanted. The competition kept the manufacturers honest, which kept quality up. This was in stark contast with Dish Network, where their in-house equipment was a sort of "love-it-or-leave-it" proposition, with temperamental hardware and sophomoric GUI's. "DouchePlayer" and "Jenny Codes," anyone?

Now, DirecTV has gone down the same rabbit hole, and has ended up in the same place. Very, very disappointing.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

Avenger said:


> Actually, DirecTV was JUST like that back in the late 1990's.


I remember that. I used to have Sony satellite equipment back in the day. It was great to have products competing against one another. The competition is still there today, though in different form and at a higher level in the supply chain. Now, the competition is at the service provider level instead of competition among the equipment manufacturers. The service providers (cable, Dish, D*) all have their own proprietary equipment, which are closed to the public.

So, that leaves us with third-party options using the only open standards left: OTA Analog, OTA Digital, Basic Cable (unencrypted channels are open) and CableCard (semi-open since it is an industry standard). So, if you want OTA or basic cable, you can go with TiVo (S2), Media Center, or MythTV. If you want premium content, you have to get a decoder (STB or CC) from your provider, but at least it is a (semi-open) standard that allows the USER to choose how they want to access the content using any of those other options. But still, it's sad that the providers themselves don't see it that way. Right now if you want premium digital content using the recording technology of your choice, CC is the only way, but the available third-party solutions using CC are just not there yet. I'm only aware of TiVo so far with Media Center supposed to be coming in the future...


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Avenger said:


> Actually, DirecTV was JUST like that back in the late 1990's. It was one of those things that attracted me to their service in the first place. You didn't like the GUI on the RCA? Then buy the Sony. Sony doesn't do it for you? Buy the Phillips. And, of course, there was always good ol' standby, Hughes. But while they all shared common characteristics, the GUI's, menu structures, and features were radically different from one manufacturer to the next.


The problem with this model is *support* and a huge cost it is. CSR's are confused enough let alone have a dozen different GUI's going. Really this was one of their main things they set out to do 2-3 years ago and announced it in investment meetings was to go to just one GUI across all their receivers. Even between the regular receivers and DVRs the general GUI is very similar (guide, menus, etc.)

By getting to one common GUI they really streamline support which is always a HUGE cost to any company.

And Tivo didn't fall into this model which is one of the reasons they are no longer used in new DVRs.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> When you cancel DirecTV be sure to tell them why!
> 
> You can make it short and sweet. Tell them it's one short word: *TIVO*.


Sorry, seriously considering moving to either dish or local cable for many reasons, none of them have anything to do with TIVO at all. On that facet I could care less if it is TIVO or some drunk monkey with a video camera

My reasons for looking for different service

1. Just replaced and sent back my 4th HR10 in 1 year of use due to failure of the unit. I wish they would send me the new unit, but they don;t have any to send
2. D* dropping HD channels to give them bandwidth to run that vaulted HD football
3. Audio dropouts on OTA recording
4. Missed recordings that should have worked

Now tell me exactly why the D* Tivo unit is better then anything else?


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> The problem with this model is *support* and a huge cost it is. CSR's are confused enough let alone have a dozen different GUI's going. Really this was one of their main things they set out to do 2-3 years ago and announced it in investment meetings was to go to just one GUI across all their receivers. Even between the regular receivers and DVRs the general GUI is very similar (guide, menus, etc.)
> 
> By getting to one common GUI they really streamline support which is always a HUGE cost to any company.
> 
> And Tivo didn't fall into this model which is one of the reasons they are no longer used in new DVRs.


I agree that support is a concern from D*'s standpoint, but that still wouldn't prevent D* from allowing third-party companies to provide their own solutions. Of course, those third-parties would have to support their own equipment, but that goes without saying. Having an open model would provide for happier customers because they would have a choice.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

sjberra said:


> Now tell me exactly why the D* Tivo unit is better then anything else?


I'm not saying the D* TiVo is currently better because it's not. That's why I'm switching. D* made the choice to stop making and allowing for TiVo improvements. If they were supporting TiVo in the future, none of your concerns would exist. They would be fixed. We would have new TiVo units, not failing ones. I have also had a number of HR10 failures, but I blame that on D*, not TiVo.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jschmidt said:


> I'm not saying the D* TiVo is currently better because it's not. That's why I'm switching. D* made the choice to stop making and allowing for TiVo improvements. If they were supporting TiVo in the future, none of your concerns would exist. They would be fixed. We would have new TiVo units, not failing ones. I have also had a number of HR10 failures, but I blame that on D*, not TiVo.


Hardware failures can be blamed on the unit, the software issues are pure tivo, since they are the vendor of record for it.

Personally I do not care what interface it uses, nor do I care if TIVO is on the unit in the future. The issues of subscriptions not recoording, audio drop outs, and all the other software related issues are the key point here Try telling a 3 year old that her Little Einsteins recording for today is not available because the software screwed up on the subscription and it did not record, or there is no audio on her wow wow wuzby show, or the unit automagicly rebooted/locked during recording of Handy Mannie. Not even going to get into the issue with the wife and her subscriptions - that is a uglier issue.

I agree hardware is D* issue, but all the 6.3/6.3A software issues belong to TIVO. The other point is if D* actually DID stop Tivo from making "improvements" to the OS the 90 percent of these prbolems would not be here, software issues did not start popping up till 6.3/6.3a was rolled out. I guess that is my fault because I keep the phone line plugged in at all times for convience of ordering PPV


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

sjberra said:


> I agree hardware is D* issue, but all the 6.3/6.3A software issues belong to TIVO. The other point is if D* actually DID stop Tivo from making "improvements" to the OS the 90 percent of these prbolems would not be here, software issues did not start popping up till 6.3/6.3a was rolled out. I guess that is my fault because I keep the phone line plugged in at all times for convience of ordering PPV


You're assuming, of course, that TiVo has the opportunity/funding from D* to fix such problems. I still blame D* for the software issues because they have the agreement with TiVo. Who's to say that if the agreement between D* and TiVo continued, that the problems wouldn't be fixed? Of course, I agree with you that if I bought the unit from TiVo and it exhibited these problems that it would be clear that TiVo was to blame for the bugs. But, given the situation with D*, it may not be possible or economically feasible for TiVo to address any such problems.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

jschmidt said:


> I agree that support is a concern from D*'s standpoint, but that still wouldn't prevent D* from allowing third-party companies to provide their own solutions. Of course, those third-parties would have to support their own equipment, but that goes without saying. Having an open model would provide for happier customers because they would have a choice.


Perhaps. But your're forgetting that 99% of the people out there don't even know they have a choice, even back in the day. They just got whatever receiver DirecTV sent them when they signed up or whatever was on the shelf at Best Buy. Nobody really cares about having a choice other then the techies like those on this forum.

That coupled with the fact that both Dish and cable don't offer a choice either they were the ones that stuck out and the bean counters felt reducing support costs far outweighted the less then 1% of their customer base that would ever care to have a choice.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> I still blame D* for the software issues because they have the agreement with TiVo.


If that's gonna be your mindset, then there's no way for TiVo to lose or D* to win.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

bidger said:


> If that's gonna be your mindset, then there's no way for TiVo to lose or D* to win.


In my mind, TiVo can lose and D* can win if TiVo was given the opportunity to correct the problems, but can't or won't. For the longest time we heard that 6.3 was coming to the HR10, but it took forever, not because of TiVo's lack of commitment, but because of the failing deal with D*. We don't know all the whys and wherefores, so I am only speculating that D* refused to keep TiVo and that as such, TiVo may not have even had the opportunity to correct (even if they wanted to). We obviously don't have all the facts, but we can infer that because D* has their own DVR, they have no incentive to maintain, correct, or improve on the old equipment. TiVo on the other hand, has gone on to release new features and now Series 3. I believe that TiVo, given the opportunity to correct any software in 6.3 would do so. However, I am not assuming that TiVohas this opportunity, even today. DirecTV most likely has the power to control what software releases are deployed to the users, including things like bug fixes.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Re: Wishlists. Couple things, it is a "Tivo thing" with wishlists. I'm unaware of any DVR that has a wishlist function just like Tivo, I think it's one of their patents.
> 
> Anyway, the HR20 has a pretty extensive search capability including the ability to autorecord a search.
> 
> But you can search by title, keyword, actor, etc. similar to the Tivo wishlist.


If the search comes up empty, can you still do an autorecord on the search keywords? If not, then it is not a replacement for TiVo Wishlists. When I say I make heavy use of Wishlists, I mean that I use it to watch out for things that may not currently show up in a search.

For example. Lets say I see a preview for an interesting movie that is just hitting the theaters. A search on a DVR at this time will turn up nothing. I throw it in a Wishlist and forget about it. Eventually it will hit one of the premium channels and will get recorded - even if I have long forgotten about the movie. Can the HR20 do this in SOME way? ANY way?

I do this type of thing often with movie titles, general keywords, and some actor names that may or may not show up in a search at that time. I don't care HOW the HR20 works, but could I accomplish this in some way on that machine?

Jim H.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bonscott87 said:


> Perhaps. But your're forgetting that 99% of the people out there don't even know they have a choice, even back in the day.


99% of all statistics are made up.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

nrc said:


> 99% of all statistics are made up.


Actually, I think you're off a little. The real figure is 83%.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

jhimmel said:


> If the search comes up empty, can you still do an autorecord on the search keywords? If not, then it is not a replacement for TiVo Wishlists. When I say I make heavy use of Wishlists, I mean that I use it to watch out for things that may not currently show up in a search.
> 
> For example. Lets say I see a preview for an interesting movie that is just hitting the theaters. A search on a DVR at this time will turn up nothing. I throw it in a Wishlist and forget about it. Eventually it will hit one of the premium channels and will get recorded - even if I have long forgotten about the movie. Can the HR20 do this in SOME way? ANY way?
> 
> ...


I don't know, I'll have to try it. I've never used wishlists for that kind of thing. I'll try to give it a try tonight and see what happens.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> I don't know, I'll have to try it. I've never used wishlists for that kind of thing. I'll try to give it a try tonight and see what happens.


Great - thank you.

Jim H.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I think I've used a wishlist once in 6 years. I take that back; for a couple years I did have 2 wishlists I'd left configured that I'd sometimes review.

What I really would miss is Suggestions... auto-recorded suggestions. It's a rare week that goes by, especially in the summer or around holiday/rerun periods, that I don't watch at least a few suggestions.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jschmidt said:


> You're assuming, of course, that TiVo has the opportunity/funding from D* to fix such problems. I still blame D* for the software issues because they have the agreement with TiVo. Who's to say that if the agreement between D* and TiVo continued, that the problems wouldn't be fixed? Of course, I agree with you that if I bought the unit from TiVo and it exhibited these problems that it would be clear that TiVo was to blame for the bugs. But, given the situation with D*, it may not be possible or economically feasible for TiVo to address any such problems.


Tivo recieves funding every month from D* for every subscriber that is still utilizing the unit, I doubt any corporation is benevolent enough to give man hours of software development and coding away for nothing, last time I looked TIVO was not the federal goverment so I doubt they give anything away for free. There is the funding, man hours to correct this SDT? That is TIVO's problem, hire contracters to correct the issues, hire a drunk monkey to correct this issues, just fix the problems TIVO introduced wioth a bad drop of code.

The software issues are TIVO's problems, no one elses, not D*'s, not the federal goverments, not anyones fault but TIVO. It does not matter if the agreement would continue or not, Tivo dropped this SDT of a application out to the HR10 end users during the time period of the contractual agreement (which I believe has been extended), they alone are the ones to be held accountable for the SDT they released.

The hardware maybe D*'s, but the software is pure TIVO - so they are responsible. At least with the new HD-DVR D* is actually putting out updates to correct and enhance the unit.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jschmidt said:


> In my mind, TiVo can lose and D* can win if TiVo was given the opportunity to correct the problems, but can't or won't. For the longest time we heard that 6.3 was coming to the HR10, but it took forever, not because of TiVo's lack of commitment, but because of the failing deal with D*. We don't know all the whys and wherefores, so I am only speculating that D* refused to keep TiVo and that as such, TiVo may not have even had the opportunity to correct (even if they wanted to). We obviously don't have all the facts, but we can infer that because D* has their own DVR, they have no incentive to maintain, correct, or improve on the old equipment. TiVo on the other hand, has gone on to release new features and now Series 3. I believe that TiVo, given the opportunity to correct any software in 6.3 would do so. However, I am not assuming that TiVohas this opportunity, even today. DirecTV most likely has the power to control what software releases are deployed to the users, including things like bug fixes.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.


They where given the oppurtunity - 6.3A is on the HR10, it is still broken, where is 6.3B,C,D....X,Y,Z ad nausem until they fix the problems


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> I don't know, I'll have to try it. I've never used wishlists for that kind of thing. I'll try to give it a try tonight and see what happens.


Yes, you indeed can setup an autorecord search if no search results are found.
I did a search for keyword "poop" which returned no results (my wife swore it would find a South Park or something). Autorecord was an option available to me and when chosen I could setup the various options (how many episodes, etc.)

A couple downsides (currently) on the HR20 and search that I remember (again, I almost never use it myself):
1) There is a limit currently on the number of saved searches, I think it's 25....maybe it's 50
2) You can limit the search to only channels in your favorites list (or channels you receive). Definite oversight/bug that is hopefully fixed once the other more important issues are fixed and OTA activated.

I only have one saved search and that is for "Red Wings|Sports|Hockey". I pull that up every couple weeks and then quickly schedule all the games for the next 2 weeks in less then a minute with the one touch record.

I also do that for HBOHD for example. In the guide you highlight the channel number and hit info. Takes a bit of time to come up but you'll get all 2 weeks of guide data in a list just for that channel. Then I can one touch record all the movies I want to record in just a couple minutes. So I do that to find movies vs. tons of wishlists.

Anyway, DBSTalk has much more info on the HR20. Stop by over there if you have more questions.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> The problem with this model is *support* and a huge cost it is. CSR's are confused enough let alone have a dozen different GUI's going.


I recently saved D* some support money by switching to FIOS. As long as D* is offering craptastic homegrown buggy DVRs like everyone else, I may as well choose my provider based on content and price, which is what I did by switching to FIOS. More HD channels, lower price, multiple DVRs in my house that I don't have to pay a purchase price to "lease", or get locked in for a multiyear contract.

I even had 1 year left on my commitement, but at $12.50/month ($150) to cancel it was a no brainer because I am saving about $15/month with FIOS anyway.

Oh and I have the option to go with S3 when that price gets real too. For now, I am done BUYing or Paying multi-hundred Upgrade fees for DVRs that I don't own.

-h


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Glad you made a decision. BUT, DirecTV is going to lose very few people because they no longer have Tivo. 99% of people just don't know or care if a DVR is Tivo or not. It's all Tivo to them. The only thing that will kill DirecTV is if they can't get the HR20 stable (and it already is for the majority). Sure there are a few people on these boards that will make a jump elsewhere just for Tivo but that's very, very few and not even up to a drop in the bucket to DirecTV.
> 
> And Series 3 Tivo is even a lesser option for most because of the cost.


What? 99% of people don't care if their DVR works right? How do you figure? These don't work right. People know that TiVo does. It was a bad move for them to switch..

My parents bought two R15's and signed up for DirecTV. They are former DISH users and have never used a TiVo.

My mom is LIVID! She still can't get series links to work right, every time she calls they tell to read the book... Last time she called they walked her through completely erasing the DVR because a menu suddenly became grayed out. The menu is STILL grayed out, and she lost all of her recordings! 

She is STILL trying to figure out how to use it. It is NOT intuitive, making the learning curve steep for novice users...

Maybe cable users standards might be low enough for this... I don't know..


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

sjberra said:


> The hardware maybe D*'s, but the software is pure TIVO - so they are responsible. At least with the new HD-DVR D* is actually putting out updates to correct and enhance the unit.


I agree that Tivo is at fault for the bugs in the software; however, D* shares blame in the matter for pushing it out to all customers without testing it fully/widely enough.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

bwaldron said:


> I agree that Tivo is at fault for the bugs in the software; however, D* shares blame in the matter for pushing it out to all customers without testing it fully/widely enough.


These issues should have been discovered by TIVO when the code was developed and hsould never have been pushed out the door. More to the point all three parties are are fault here, TIVO shares the majority of the blame for the SDT code otu the door without proper testing, D* for bowing down to the willof the customers and releasing it, and the end user for screaming for it.

The final point on this is the fact that comparing the HR20 problems to the HR10 and saying that the TIVO unit is light years better is a incorrect - both units are suffering the same problems, at least there are code upgrades and fixes coming out for the HR20.

The only thing I can say for a fact is given the number of HR10's I have had to get replaced in the past year and the D* protection plan, I have definately got my 5.99 a month worth in replacement equipment. Now if I can get one that actually does not have software issues it would be a good deal


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

sjberra said:


> The final point on this is the fact that comparing the HR20 problems to the HR10 and saying that the TIVO unit is light years better is a incorrect - both units are suffering the same problems, at least there are code upgrades and fixes coming out for the HR20.


Suffering the same problems....no, not IMO. I've currently got 3 HR10's (1 running 6.3) and none of them have ever missed a single recording.

That's a heckuva lot more than I can say for the HR20.


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## SHOMan (Jun 2, 2005)

sjberra said:


> The hardware maybe D*'s, but the software is pure TIVO - so they are responsible. At least with the new HD-DVR D* is actually putting out updates to correct and enhance the unit.


According to a D* engineer I talked to, my HR10 was *manufactured* by Tivo as well. He seemed to know what he was talking about.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

sjberra said:


> TIVO shares the majority of the blame for the SDT code otu the door without proper testing, D* for bowing down to the willof the customers and releasing it, and the end user for screaming for it.


I blame evoniac. Personally.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

SHOMan said:


> According to a D* engineer I talked to, my HR10 was *manufactured* by Tivo as well. He seemed to know what he was talking about.


The HR10-250 was initially manufactured by Hughes in Germantown, MD before being moved to a contract manufacturing facility in Mexico. TiVo has never manufactured the HR10-250; they certainly may have been involved in the hardware design/prototype.


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

sjberra said:


> More to the point all three parties are are fault here, TIVO shares the majority of the blame for the SDT code otu the door without proper testing, D* for bowing down to the willof the customers and releasing it, and the end user for screaming for it.


I'll blame Tivo and D*, but I do not blame customers at all. Given the fact that the long-released 6.2 upgrades on the SD units sped up the machines significantly w/o reducing stability, it wasn't at all unreasonable to ask/hope for a similar upgrade on the HR10. But nobody asked for bugs--they could have asked for beta testers from the user community, but did not.


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## chris_h (Dec 17, 2003)

bwaldron said:


> they could have asked for beta testers from the user community, but did not.


How do you know that? Tivo does have a beta program sign up form, and a link to it was made available on this forum (in general, not just for HR10 6.3). How do you know that no one in the user community who signed up was not part of the 6.3 HR10 beta? Are you just assuming it since there are so many bugs in 6.3?


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

chris_h said:


> How do you know that? Tivo does have a beta program sign up form, and a link to it was made available on this forum (in general, not just for HR10 6.3). How do you know that no one in the user community who signed up was not part of the 6.3 HR10 beta? Are you just assuming it since there are so many bugs in 6.3?


Yes, it is an assumption. I have been a beta tester for Tivo stand-alones in the past; as far as I know, there was no public beta of 6.3 for the HR10. Based upon the number of folks with just the OTA dropouts (not to mention the issue that resulted in 6.3a soon after release), it's incomprehensible to me that a proper test of the release was done. Also, you'd think that at least one member here would have been involved in a decent beta test.

But yes, I am assuming shoddy testing.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> These don't work right. People know that TiVo does.


Those would be the same people that don't even realize what they have isn't a Tivo? The simple truth is that most people don't have high standards for a free device that records TV shows. They compare it to using a VCR, not to a real Tivo which they have never owned.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> Those would be the same people that don't even realize what they have isn't a Tivo? The simple truth is that most people don't have high standards for a free device that records TV shows. They compare it to using a VCR, not to a real Tivo which they have never owned.


Ok, I see your point. But it's not necessarily "free", Comcast here requires you to have the digital tier, then chargees your $10/mo...


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## leesweet (Mar 13, 2004)

Does anyone *know* why D* (Tivo? I don't think it's really them... ) doesn't choose people from, say, here for beta testing?

Other manufactureres have done so in the past (I've been told, and NDAs do and may prohibit some details), and had very good results in finding issues that were NOT found internally. Wouldn't D* *like* to find these things out ahead of release date(s) (whether or not they *fixed* them....)?

As demonstrated here, these errors would have been found in a matter of hours, literally.


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## jschmidt (Mar 4, 2003)

UPDATE:

Well, I got everything hooked up over the weekend and so far is working great. I now have 3 Series 3 TiVos (Theater, Family Room, and Master Bedroom). The install with TW was pretty smooth. They had a problem programming two of the CableCards, but when they brought out two new ones, they worked fine.

I must say that I am even more impressed with the S3 than the HR10. The interface is more polished and has a few more niceties than the older boxes. I love the ASPECT button, which is a godsend on Battlestar Gallactica's SD letterboxed broadcast. I also love the home networking features including the ability to stream music from my server.

A lot of people complain about not having the MRV and TiVo2Go features on the Series 3. I can appreciate that, but the S3 is still a great machine without it... especially when compared to the HR10. I am looking forward to TiVo2Go on the Series 3, but until then, I am perfectly satisfied with my purchase!

Next step is to call D* today to give them the bad news that I will no longer be sending them my $140/month...


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## cmarbach (Dec 2, 2004)

You'll love the S3. It has all the things that D* wouldn't let TIVO do. Unfortunately, now TIVO has to deal with the limitations the Cable Cards put on them.


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

jschmidt said:


> I have been a loyal subscriber with DirecTV for some years now. I am an "A+ member," whatever that means. But, I have been a TiVo user much longer, since ~1999. I have 2 HR10-250s and 1 SD DirecTiVo. My HR10-250 in my bedroom just started acting up and the Protection Plan people said that I would be getting an HR20 instead of an HR10. That really chaps my hide! I went to DirecTV because they had TiVo built-in to the receiver. They have failed to keep up with the new TiVo developments and now have stopped making them altogether. Their new DVR is crappy, slow, and I hate the interface.
> 
> Although I fear that the picture quality will not be as good, I'm going to switch to cable. I have TimeWarner in my area so we'll see how that goes. I just ordered 3 Series 3 TiVos and will probably order 1 Series 2 DT at some point. I also ordered 6 CableCards. We'll see how not smoothly this installation goes. But, I refuse to give up my TiVo just because some dumba$$e$ at DirecTV screwed the pooch on the deal with TiVo. I WANT MY TiVo! Are you getting this DirecTV? You just lost a $140/month customer because you aren't supporting TiVo any longer! I'm so mad I could spit!


Look. You can't expect that a vendor of ANYTHING they sell will be available forever. Let's say you've owned a 1959 Zenith Space Command black and white TV. You love that TV. You love the basic, no nonsense remote and the sonic clang it makes when you use it to 1) Turn the TV on and off (2) Change channels (3) Adjust the volume.

It just crapped out on you. Are you going to get on the phone and ream them a new poop shoot for not having an exact replacement available?

DirecTV is a business, and they made a business decision that they would not continue to support TiVo. Who knows why--but they don't have to explain it.

Many here continue to use their HR10-250's--including me. I will use it until it craps out, or won't deliver the services I need and then I will get what suits me best from whatever is out there.

Of course you have the right to vote with your feet. But I doubt that in the grand scheme of things that DirecTV, a $15 Billion/year enterprise, will hold a board meeting to discuss the ramifications of the loss of the revenue represented by your subscription.

Good luck with Time Warner. They have been selling their franchises all over the country to other cable companies, mostly Comcast. Comcast immediately raises their fees by over 40% over what TWC charged. My parents, in Minneapolis, saw their bill go from $60/month to $87/month. No explanation. One month they got a TWC bill, and the next, a Comcast bill--a much bigger one!


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## Bigdogsbigdogs (Dec 18, 2006)

I was very reluctant to go back to Dish after being pretty happy with my HR10's & Direct but there were several reasons I had too (read my recent post.)

Long story short, I would never NEVER consider cable as I have seen the quality difference in my area, hate their DVR's and the $$$ is just way too high! So I bought 2 VIP622's, switched to Dish and hoped for the best.

Until now, I've never found a DVR interface as slick & user friendly as Tivo. Dish's 501 DVR just plain sucked and cables DVR's are pretty bad too.

My Wife found the interface of the VIP622 'differently awkward' for the first few hours, but when I came home the very next day, I found She had recorded several shows, scheduled a few events with priority, conflict resolution and management and had customized a theme for her channel navigation! I could not believe what I was seeing! When I spoke to her about it, she exuberantly exclaimed 'I love this new machine, don't ever get rid of it!'

I have to say, Dish's programming, VIP622 performance & lower cost is a no brainier for me. That's a lot coming form me considering I would have never voluntarily switched from Direct an truly thought there was no comparable option.

Good luck!


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

I would agree, I've read a lot of good things about the 622. Took Dish a few years but I think they finally did it right. If someone doesn't need Sunday Ticket they should give a serious look at Dish.


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## ad301 (Dec 21, 2001)

jhimmel said:


> Re: HR20
> If it doesn't have Wishlists, I wouldn't want it. I make VERY heavy use of Wishlists and it would be a serious limitation to me if the HR20 doesn't have them.


The hr20 does not have the same functionality as provided by tivo wishlists. If, as you say, you make heavy use of wishlists, then I'm afraid you would find the hr20, like I do, to be completely inadequate.

The limit on "recent finds" is 25, after which you lose the oldest search you did. There is no way to save a specific find indefinitely, other than by never exceeding the 25 limit. There is no way to check all finds simultaneously, rather you must check each one individually. And if you set up any autorecords, it tends to destabilize the box. (Disclaimer: that was the opinion of many over at dbstalk.com a few weeks ago, when not one user would risk adding a couple of autorecords in a testing scenario, for fear of inducing unknown problems. I don't know if that situation has improved with any recent software updates.) And another problem is that finds on the hr20 will return hits on any channel. There is no way to limit them to channels you receive.


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

ad301 said:


> The hr20 does not have the same functionality as provided by tivo wishlists. If, as you say, you make heavy use of wishlists, then I'm afraid you would find the hr20, like I do, to be completely inadequate.


Agreed with ad301. This is a big limitation of the HR20 for some of us.


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