# Journeyman 12/17/2007 (S01E12) "The Hanged Man"



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

That was cool. Way cool. Electronic paper and everything. And I just don't really know where they're going and am loving every minute.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Too bad we may never really get to know where they are going.......

Oh well. That was really neat. 

'Livia in the lingere....... :up::up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jlb said:


> 'Livia in the lingere....... :up::up:


"Thank God it's you."

"Thank God it's me!"


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## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "Thank God it's you."
> 
> "Thank God it's me!"


Oh yeah!


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ok, as I say most weeks.. "stop making me cry!"
Sure enough, when he came home and Zach was there, weep-o-rama!

Loved the Langley plot points, and the birthdays.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I wish he'd have taken the electronic paper back in time on the next trip to see just how he might magnify the technology of "today." Heck, even just pocketing it so that when he restored the original broken time line he'd still have it in his possession and he could then "invent" it in present day.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

I couldn't stop saying "Whoah!" Very cool for technophiles. Very scary that he erased his son. 

I don't trust the psychic.

They can't end this series now.  

My letter and Rice-a-Roni are on their way.


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## ZooCaretaker (May 22, 2007)

Best show ever!!!

So what's the deal with all the security surrounding Langley? Why would he be getting harassed by so many "non-students"?


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

This show has so much potential. So many possibilities to explore.

After the strike if the put full network support with top writers to take the show to a new quality level the network will have a hit. Right now it has surpassed Heroes as far as intrigue and looking forward to next week.

The acting is a bit weak at times but this show could really hit it's stride with some more time as the actors and writers get a better handle on the characters.

I kind of feel sorry for the little girl he zapped back to non-existence.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I kind of feel sorry for the little girl he zapped back to non-existence.


She's still there... just inside the little boy. Didn't you see his butterfly painting?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Another episode that I LOVED. I felt his panic when he realized his son was gone...

The paper was awesome! Can't wait to have some one day. 

When the psychic said "Zach!" I got goose bumps.

I'll be so bummed if they don't tie up the story with Langley on Wednesday.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

When can I order a holographic monitor to replace my antiquated LCD?  Hmmm so Elliot Langley is BS'ing him or does he really not know Dan? NBC you are soooooooo stupid for canceling this show!


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

dswallow said:


> I wish he'd have taken the electronic paper back in time on the next trip to see just how he might magnify the technology of "today." Heck, even just pocketing it so that when he restored the original broken time line he'd still have it in his possession and he could then "invent" it in present day.


Just look what a mess a misplaced camera could do. Misplaced nanotechnology? Much, much worse!



Kamakzie said:


> When can I order a holographic monitor to replace my antiquated LCD?  Hmmm so Elliot Langley is BS'ing him or does he really not know Dan?


 I'll take one of those holographic monitors too! At first I thought Dan maybe changed reality again and that's why Langley didn't know him, but I think there's some sort of cover-up. Perhaps Langley didn't want to be seen talking to Dan because it's dangerous? Or something more sinister. It's always seemed that Langley's been hiding his true intentions from Dan.



Kamakzie said:


> NBC you are soooooooo stupid for canceling this show!


True dat. I was over on the nbc message board for the first time. There were so many first-time posters who came to say the same thing - Don't Cancel the Show. There's a great Top Ten List of Things to do to Save the Show over there too.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

BurnBaby said:


> True dat. I was over on the nbc message board for the first time. There were so many first-time posters who came to say the same thing - Don't Cancel the Show. There's a great Top Ten List of Things to do to Save the Show over there too.


Here's a link to that list: http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/index.php?s=&showtopic=777816&view=findpost&p=2794140


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## kmcorbett (Dec 7, 2002)

dswallow said:


> She's still there... just inside the little boy. Didn't you see his butterfly painting?


One theory is that she's still on a separate timeline. (Per the "many worlds" interpretation of the laws of quantum mechanics.)

Or as Doris Day sang, "Que sera, sera. Whatever will be, will be."


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

And remember that NBC originally planned to stop running the show after this episode. To be left hanging after this one would have been terrible (of course it could be worse after the next one but I hope not).

Despite my wish for it not to be canceled, it does seem to have run it's course in some ways. Most secrets are known etc. etc. Like a mini series.

As the OP said, one of the great things about this show is how nothing can be predicted reliably and yet the resolution is always satisfactory.

I'll be missing it when it goes off the air.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Kamakzie said:


> NBC you are soooooooo stupid for canceling this show!


Indeed. The decision borders on mental retardation.

This was my favorite episode of the season so far. Just incredible.

It boggles my mind that they haven't figured out how to tally TiVo watchers into the ratings. I mean, seriously, the kind of person that this show appeals to would obviously own the latest technology...

Someone should write a script about what would happen to NBC if they didn't cancel Journeyman.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

As has been pointed out it has not been canceled. Only 13 episodes were ordered and made and that has been fulfilled. You can't blame them for not ordering more in strike-time. It is said that the strike gives it more chance of surviving since it will be quick to turnaround once the strike is over. 

Oh yeah, and the terrible ratings can't help


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

appleye1 said:


> Here's a link to that list: http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/index.php?s=&showtopic=777816&view=findpost&p=2794140


Thanks I was getting ready to post that. I went over there to get the link and got sucked into reading The Please Don't Cancel the Show thread over at the NBC boards.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Someone mentioned looking forward to next week? The (season) finale is tomorrow (Wednesday). Don't you dare miss it!


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Oh MAN!! It sucks so bad that this show is on NBCs kill list. This show has surpassed heroes for the excitement it gives me and is right up there with LOST. Plus consider the production budget differences for these shows.

I don't think NBC even gave this show a fair shot. There were very few promo and I dont ever recall seeing any of the in-program promos (you know, that take up half the screen and drive us all nuts) for Journeyman.

Anyways, the sister-in-law wasn't very nice for telling them that the brothers GF was pregnant. Whats wrong with her?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

BurnBaby said:


> Just look what a mess a misplaced camera could do. Misplaced nanotechnology? Much, much worse!


Worse? Did we really see any negative differences? Instead of a son, Dan had a daughter. One other woman's son was killed... someone who otherwise apparently was involved in leading research on vision replacement. Though we never saw the level of such medical technology in the nanotech world version.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BurnBaby said:


> Just look what a mess a misplaced camera could do. Misplaced nanotechnology? Much, much worse!


Wait, what? I thought that was just the name of the computer company ("Nanotex" or something like that) that was built from Dan's stolen camera..?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wait, what? I thought that was just the name of the computer company ("Nanotex" or something like that) that was built from Dan's stolen camera..?


I thought that was the name of the company too (saw it as a play of words on "Microsoft"), but also an implication that it had to do with nanotechnology. Now I'm not so sure - maybe it was just a common nickname for the type of screen they were using, like we call screens "an LCD" today.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

NBC only has NBC to blame for the current state of this show. It was marketed as way too much a show like Quantum Leap. Even I completely dismissed it because I didn't want to watch the same show with a different cast. It turns out that the only similarity is that the main character does some time traveling. The rest is very different. Sure QL was a big hit but that was what... 12-15 years ago?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Part of me wants to think that since the majority of people never like Season 2s as much as a Season 1s that this might be better to wrap up in one season. But I want to see it wrapped up, that's for sure.

I kinda got the feeling that we would be seeing a version of the world if Macs ruled the planet...holographic monitors and sheets of paper were much cooler though. And I kept thinking, shouldn't Dan's "iPhone" now look a hecuva lot cooler???


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

unicorngoddess, I kind of agree. It's like the UK shows that only run 6-12 episodes and then call it a day. It seems they have taken the story a long way and having 3-4 more seasons would just drag it out and repeat.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

I saw the butterfly art as a nod to _The Butterfly Effect_.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> I saw the butterfly art as a nod to _The Butterfly Effect_.


That did not occur to me, but I think you're right. And it's awesome.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Un-freakin-believable.....this was an episode with so many "WOW" moments, it's hard to count them all.

What a sad commentary on NBC....to apparently pull the plug on a show that doesn't appeal to the mindless masses.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> I saw the butterfly art as a nod to _The Butterfly Effect_.


Yep, I assumed that was intentional. Nice touch.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

In true Lost form, how do we know that Zach is Dan's "real" child? Granted, Dan didn't know the girl when he leaped, but who knows how long he really has been aware of his leaping......

Anyways, I totally love this show.

Burn in Hell NBC!!!!!!!!!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jlb said:


> In true Lost form, how do we know that Zach is Dan's "real" child?


Well, both were his real children, just in different timelines. However, as in most time travel stories, it's a bit contrived to explain jumping between timelines... Dan shouldn't have been aware of the existence of Zach when he jumped back, otherwise what happened couldn't have happened... 

I kept hoping he'd explain to his wife that it's not like he'd take away their daughter... he'd just jump to another timeline where she never existed...


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

What an excellent episode.

I loved the kid storyline. I often thought I had been born in the wrong time period, but then I wouldn't be me, right? I also think what my life would be like without my own kid, but like so many parents I can't imagine it without him.

Burn in hell NBC!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

jlb said:


> 'Livia in the lingere....... :up::up:


I tried to find a screencap of Livia from that scene, but all I could find was a Maxim shot that was close........

So as to not be accussed of shamelessly leering, I have linkified it....

http://blogs.4bauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/moon-bloodgood-8.jpg


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Well, both were his real children, just in different timelines. However, as in most time travel stories, it's a bit contrived to explain jumping between timelines... Dan shouldn't have been aware of the existence of Zach when he jumped back, otherwise what happened couldn't have happened...
> 
> I kept hoping he'd explain to his wife that it's not like he'd take away their daughter... he'd just jump to another timeline where she never existed...


This is heavy!


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Such an amazing episode.

I'm really, really sad that this show won't continue.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

jlb said:


> I tried to find a screencap of Livia from that scene, but all I could find was a Maxim shot that was close........
> 
> So as to not be accussed of shamelessly leering, I have linkified it....
> 
> http://blogs.4bauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/moon-bloodgood-8.jpg


!MADRE DE DIOS!

This was such a good episode, a made a verbal WOW when he came back and had a daughter.

I didn't really care much for the psychic though. Took it too much into the supernatural, where I don't think it really belongs.

-smak-


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

jlb said:


> This is heavy!


Heavy, heavy. There's that phrase again. Is there something wrong with the gravity in the future?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

smak said:


> ...I didn't really care much for the psychic though. Took it too much into the supernatural, where I don't think it really belongs.
> 
> -smak-


Good observation, smak, I agree. I meant to add that to my previous post. That was the only part of the episode I didn't like.


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## domat (Apr 16, 2007)

first I love this show and hate that we will not get any more episodes after this week.

Secondly if Neilson is doing its job correctly dvr owners are already included in the ratings. No need to specifically check on them.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

smak said:


> I didn't really care much for the psychic though. Took it too much into the supernatural, where I don't think it really belongs.


I see where you're coming from but still... the whole show is about the supernatural.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

5thcrewman said:


> I saw the butterfly art as a nod to _The Butterfly Effect_.


Funny I saw it as a nod to Chaos theory in general.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Craigbob said:


> Funny I saw it as a nod to Chaos theory in general.


Well, I had just seen I Am Legend and so that was the first thing that popped into my head with the butterfly.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Funny, the first thing that popped into my head was the short story by Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder", first published in 1952.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

balboa dave said:


> Funny, the first thing that popped into my head was the short story by Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder", first published in 1952.


+1


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

MickeS said:


> I kept hoping he'd explain to his wife that it's not like he'd take away their daughter... he'd just jump to another timeline where she never existed...


That's got to be pretty high on the list of Things Not To Say To Your Wife If You Want To Live. "Don't worry, honey, I'll make it so our daughter never existed. You won't even miss her." 

In the thread a few episodes back, I noticed that Dan had arrived in the past with an iPod, and was a little surprised nothing happened with that -- now I see that nothing happened in _that_ episode because they already had _this_ episode planned.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

balboa dave said:


> Funny, the first thing that popped into my head was the short story by Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder", first published in 1952.


that's because, as you have just proven, you are so much smarter than the rest of us.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

jlb said:


> I tried to find a screencap of Livia from that scene, but all I could find was a Maxim shot that was close........
> 
> So as to not be accussed of shamelessly leering, I have linkified it....
> 
> http://blogs.4bauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/moon-bloodgood-8.jpg


Wowwwwww....


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Dan's wife should be worried, very worried.


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

The psychic character wasn't my favorite either, but at least she ended up giving us some important information about the comet. I loved when Dan and Katie got the light bulb moment when they realized the other time the comet came close was on Liv's birthday. This show has far too much imagination and quality to last. I wish NBC would move this to USA where it could get solid ratings and be allowed to grow.


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## jerrad707 (Dec 27, 2004)

I maybe alone in thinking this, but the canceling of JM now makes 2 exciting shows in a row for Moon Bloodgood. I really enjoyed Daybreak until it was yanked. anyone else? Is she cursed? I guess it wouldn't be much of a show without a "Maxim Top 50" girl though


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jerrad707 said:


> I maybe alone in thinking this, but the canceling of JM now makes 2 exciting shows in a row for Moon Bloodgood. I really enjoyed Daybreak until it was yanked. anyone else? Is she cursed? ....


 Probably has something to do with when she was born....under a bad sign.....(I feel a Cream moment...)


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

MickeS said:


> I see where you're coming from but still... the whole show is about the supernatural.


I don't think so, and I think we'll find it it doesn't. It's scientific, not supernatural.

-smak-


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I assumed that Langley pretended not to know him to protect him. There must be bad guys wanting to use time travel for Evil watching Langley. I thought the look they exchanged as he walked away was to let us know that he really did know him.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I just watched and all I can do is travel back and smeek...

Wow! Burn in hell, NBC; everything everyone else has said!

Unfortunately, a show has to appeal to people who have an IQ of an 8-year-old to survive. Anything requiring a little thought (Sportsnight, anyone?) doesn't stand a chance.

I repeat - Burn in hell, NBC!!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Probably has something to do with when she was born....under a bad sign.....(I feel a Cream moment...)


Yikes! Quick, turn off your monitor or close the browser or something! Remember what Frankie Say!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I just watched and all I can do is travel back and smeek...
> 
> Wow! Burn in hell, NBC; everything everyone else has said!
> 
> ...


glad to see you're on board. :up:


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

balboa dave said:


> Funny, the first thing that popped into my head was the short story by Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder", first published in 1952.


I was going to post something similar.

I think that this show is Quantum Leap + Back to the Future + A Sound of Thunder.
That's the "MTV Cops" network executive-speak description of this show.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wait, what? I thought that was just the name of the computer company ("Nanotex" or something like that) that was built from Dan's stolen camera..?


I couldn't tell at the time if it was a reference to a company name Nanotex or maybe that the company name had come to be synonymous with that sort of technology (like Xerox) or if it was a generic term. I may go back and watch.

Btw, there was a terrific podcast tonight - an interview with Kevin Falls. Very interesting stuff. http://podcastpickle.com/cast/28583 He definitely encouraged fan efforts to save the show.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow night. Kevin Falls said that we would get closure, maybe not all the answers but some.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> (I feel a Cream moment...)


I felt a cream moment when I clicked on that link above.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> glad to see you're on board. :up:


I've actually been on board since day one. I loved Kevin McKidd in Rome and, like House, to see a Brit succeed is a bonus.

This show has some great plotlines, (as seen Monday - IMO, the best episode yet!), and some pretty good action. I love a show where we sit and go "Wow, didn't see THAT coming" or it makes me think. This is one that I WOULD get behind and do whatever it takes to get it extended.

There's a lot to be said for the shorter British seasons of 6-13 shows. It takes the pressure off writers to produce content so they can focus on producing good content. I would be happy for this show to be an annual 13 episode event rather than it be forced to fill out the schedule for 22/24 weeks with huge gaps in the middle.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Dan's wife should be worried, very worried.


About what?


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Un-freakin-believable.....this was an episode with so many "WOW" moments, it's hard to count them all.
> 
> What a sad commentary on NBC....to apparently pull the plug on a show that doesn't appeal to the mindless masses.


I agree on both points! Really awesome revelations in this episode! First that leaving the camera behind changed his child and then the advances in technology because of someone getting the nano technology 15 years earlier.

Oh yeah, my husband was yelling "this would be better if they learned how to control when they jump" and a minute later Dan and Olivia said the same thing. That was great!

Also, loved the reveal about Dan and Olivia's birth dates being significant to their abilities. I sure hope they explain that fully tonight!

As to the masses who love Suvivor and crap like that over quality drama, I simply can't understand that mentality.

As with last week, I still really question how a doctor can be stupid enough to "accidentially" get pregnant...

Cheryl


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

speedcouch said:


> Also, loved the reveal about Dan and Olivia's birth dates being significant to their abilities. I sure hope they explain that fully tonight!


About 353,000 are born each day worldwide (according to the CIA world factbook figures for 2006). So, I wonder, is there anything special about the 705,998 other people that share Dan and Olivia's birth dates? Are they journeying about as well, or does something beyond the fact that their birthdates coincide with this comet event make Dan and Olivia special? I wonder if we'll ever find out. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

danterner said:


> About 353,000 are born each day worldwide (according to the CIA world factbook figures for 2006). So, I wonder, is there anything special about the 705,998 other people that share Dan and Olivia's birth dates? Are they journeying about as well, or does something beyond the fact that their birthdates coincide with this comet event make Dan and Olivia special? I wonder if we'll ever find out. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


Actually, we'll find out tonight.


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## domat (Apr 16, 2007)

danterner said:


> About 353,000 are born each day worldwide (according to the CIA world factbook figures for 2006). So, I wonder, is there anything special about the 705,998 other people that share Dan and Olivia's birth dates? Are they journeying about as well, or does something beyond the fact that their birthdates coincide with this comet event make Dan and Olivia special? I wonder if we'll ever find out. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


thats today. probably less in 1972 and a fair bit less in 1923.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

domat said:


> thats today. probably less in 1972 and a fair bit less in 1923.


I know, and you are absolutely right. I was too lazy to look up figures for their actual birthdates, which I could not recall off the top of my head. I figured that even though the actual birth figures would be different for the two actual years, it doesn't change the overall question I was raising: are there lots of other people out there similarly afflicted?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

danterner said:


> I know, and you are absolutely right. I was too lazy to look up figures for their actual birthdates, which I could not recall off the top of my head. I figured that even though the actual birth figures would be different for the two actual years, it doesn't change the overall question I was raising: are there lots of other people out there similarly afflicted?


Maybe we'll find out. But they could always write it so that it's necessary to be born on that date to have the ability, but that it also requires something else - something that's unique to far fewer individuals.


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

danterner said:


> About 353,000 are born each day worldwide (according to the CIA world factbook figures for 2006). So, I wonder, is there anything special about the 705,998 other people that share Dan and Olivia's birth dates? Are they journeying about as well, or does something beyond the fact that their birthdates coincide with this comet event make Dan and Olivia special? I wonder if we'll ever find out. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


Possibly. However it might have been at the specific minute of their birth.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> Funny, the first thing that popped into my head was the short story by Ray Bradbury, "A Sound of Thunder", first published in 1952.


Isn't that story where the whole idea of a "butterfly effect" comes from? When the previous poster referred to the The Butterfly Effect, I didn't take it as referring to the Ashton Kutcher movie, but to the whole idea, which originated with Bradbury.


trainman said:


> In the thread a few episodes back, I noticed that Dan had arrived in the past with an iPod, and was a little surprised nothing happened with that -- now I see that nothing happened in _that_ episode because they already had _this_ episode planned.


But he didn't leave his iPod in the past during that episode. There was another ep where the ER docs found his iPhone, but Livia grabbed it back before he left it behind. This was the first time he'd left modern tech in the past in the hands of someone else.

Oh, and it's too bad he had to destroy those pictures of Katie. 


stellie93 said:


> I assumed that Langley pretended not to know him to protect him. There must be bad guys wanting to use time travel for Evil watching Langley. I thought the look they exchanged as he walked away was to let us know that he really did know him.


But if "evil" people are watching Langley, wouldn't they kidnap and question anyone who came to talk to him about that issue, even if Langley claimed not to know them? Also, does Langley work at a school? I thought he worked at some government lab. If so, perhaps "students" are actually time-traveling subjects that work for the lab, and since Dan doesn't work for the lab, he's a "non-student."


speedcouch said:


> As to the masses who love Suvivor and crap like that over quality drama, I simply can't understand that mentality.
> 
> Cheryl


No reason you can't love both. They're not mutually exclusive.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

needo said:


> Possibly. However it might have been at the specific minute of their birth.


...and location..?

(Of course, this means we're taking astrology seriously...ARGH! )


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

WOW! What a awesome episode, 'Livia in the lingere' Iceing on the cake, I can't believe they want to cancel this show.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

danterner said:


> About 353,000 are born each day worldwide (according to the CIA world factbook figures for 2006). So, I wonder, is there anything special about the 705,998 other people that share Dan and Olivia's birth dates? Are they journeying about as well, or does something beyond the fact that their birthdates coincide with this comet event make Dan and Olivia special? I wonder if we'll ever find out. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


Wouldn't that be cool. Over a half-a-million guardian angels bouncing through the chronosphere. There's some serious story potential.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

TonyTheTiger said:


> This show has some great plotlines, (as seen Monday - IMO, the best episode yet!), and some pretty good action. I love a show where we sit and go "Wow, didn't see THAT coming" or it makes me think. This is one that I WOULD get behind and do whatever it takes to get it extended.
> 
> There's a lot to be said for the shorter British seasons of 6-13 shows. It takes the pressure off writers to produce content so they can focus on producing good content. I would be happy for this show to be an annual 13 episode event rather than it be forced to fill out the schedule for 22/24 weeks with huge gaps in the middle.


There are a lot of other fans who see this as the show to get behind, thus the massive fan efforts (see signature). But, yeah this show would do great on USA (owned by NBC), where runs can be annual and that short. Not to say I wouldn't love to see it stay on NBC

Speaking of fan effort, I thought this video was a nice creative effort, plus it reminds me I must download the theme song to this show. 








speedcouch said:


> As with last week, I still really question how a doctor can be stupid enough to "accidentially" get pregnant...


Yeah totally agreed. I don't know if this is one of the answers that's supposed to get resolved tonight, but I've thought for awhile that the doctor is not saying all she knows. And that, if she really is pregnant, it was no accident.



danterner said:


> About 353,000 are born each day worldwide (according to the CIA world factbook figures for 2006). So, I wonder, is there anything special about the 705,998 other people that share Dan and Olivia's birth dates? Are they journeying about as well, or does something beyond the fact that their birthdates coincide with this comet event make Dan and Olivia special? I wonder if we'll ever find out. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


Seems like it was the comet coinciding but this is a really cool thought. I think we will get some more answers (not all but more) tonight on this. I wonder is it just the comet and the birthdate or is there also someone or someones pulling the strings in order to someone to become a journeyman?


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Isn't that story where the whole idea of a "butterfly effect" comes from? When the previous poster referred to the The Butterfly Effect, I didn't take it as referring to the Ashton Kutcher movie, but to the whole idea, which originated with Bradbury.


Not exactly, but they are intertwined. Yes, Bradbury used a butterfly in his time travel story:


Spoiler



Time travelers go back to the era of the dinosaurs, and in spite of precautions, a butterfly gets crushed. The world the travelers return to is very different than the one they left.


 It explored the consequences of minor events having major consequences, but that idea had been around for decades, and like great science fiction, Bradbury explored the implications of it. _Chaos Theory_ itself was named about a decade or so later, and came about as a study of weather patterns. It used the analogy of how a large storm could come about as a result of something as minor as a butterfly flapping its wings. That is the _Butterfly Effect_. Neither term existed when Bradbury wrote his story, but both can be said to apply. But as far as I can tell, unless the scientist was familiar with Bradbury's story, it is just a coincidence that both the story and the theory used a butterfly.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

BurnBaby said:


> Yeah totally agreed. I don't know if this is one of the answers that's supposed to get resolved tonight, but I've thought for awhile that the doctor is not saying all she knows. And that, if she really is pregnant, it was no accident.


Yeah I could see her as being another FBI time cop a-la the guy who died, and she's going the spy route.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

balboa dave said:


> Not exactly, but they are intertwined. Yes, Bradbury used a butterfly in his time travel story:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


That's a great explanation.

Personally, I think Caroline's butterfly was a reference to the Butterfly Effect, while Zach's was a nod to Bradbury's story.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> About what?


Maybe about Liv looking like that in Maxim. 

I can't believe the finale is tonight. I can't wait.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

danterner said:


> That's a great explanation.
> 
> Personally, I think Caroline's butterfly was a reference to the Butterfly Effect, while Zach's was a nod to Bradbury's story.


Well played.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

jerrad707 said:


> I maybe alone in thinking this, but the canceling of JM now makes 2 exciting shows in a row for Moon Bloodgood. I really enjoyed Daybreak until it was yanked. anyone else? Is she cursed? I guess it wouldn't be much of a show without a "Maxim Top 50" girl though


I really enjoyed Daybreak also. At least I got to finish it up online.

All I can hope for from Journeyman is that the wrap up the storylines or else it will turn whats been my favorite new drama this season into such a disappointment.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I had a headache Monday night, and decided to wait to watch so I could savor the episode. This is the only new show I liked this year. I'm going to miss it.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Actually the original analogy was a seagull flapping its wings; I suspect it was later changed to a butterfly as an homage to Bradbury.



balboa dave said:


> Not exactly, but they are intertwined. Yes, Bradbury used a butterfly in his time travel story:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

wprager said:


> Actually the original analogy was a seagull flapping its wings; I suspect it was later changed to a butterfly as an homage to Bradbury.


Yes, I wrote up a condensed version, but who's heard of the seagull effect? It had nothing to do with the point, so it seemed unimportant to bring it up. But since you did, according to Lorenz:


> Before the Washington meeting, I had sometimes used a sea gull as symbol for sensitive dependence. The switch to a butterfly was actually made by the session convenor, the meteorologist Philip Merilees, who was unable to check with me when we had to submit the program titles. Phil has recently assured me that he was not familiar with Bradbury's story. Perhaps the butterfly, with its seeming frailty and lack of power is a natural choice for a symbol of the small that can produce the great.


And it was James Gleick who first coined the actual phrase "butterfly effect" in his book _Chaos_. I think it can be said that Bradbury's story *is *the Lorenz attractor.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

speedcouch said:


> As to the masses who love Suvivor and crap like that over quality drama, I simply can't understand that mentality.


Why the hell do you have to insult people?

I like Survivor (and several reality shows *more* than Survivor), but *also* like Journeyman and a lot of other dramas (esp the 'smart' dramas like West Wing & Studio 60).


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

mattack said:


> Why the hell do you have to insult people?


Why is it an insult to you to say that many of the people who watch reality shows are mental idiots with short attention spans?


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## David Ortiz (Jul 8, 2002)

Thank you to all responsible for finishing these 13 episodes. What an excellent show Journeyman is. I'm glad the strike didn't affect the initial order. So many other shows only completed 8, 9, 10 or so episodes.

I hope this isn't the end. So many options for a future. Cable, Fox, CBS, who knows.

Thank you Kevin Falls, Journeyman is television worth watching!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Why is it an insult to you to say that many of the people who watch reality shows are mental idiots with short attention spans?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Why is it an insult to you to say that many of the people who watch reality shows are mental idiots with short attention spans?


The poster didn't say many, he implied all.. "the masses who love Survivor..."

Basically insulting anyone who likes Survivor. Personally I don't get that idiotic holier-than-thou mentality.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jlb said:


> 'Livia in the lingere....... :up::up:


I just wish someone could go back in time and kill whoever invented double-stick tape.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> The poster didn't say many, he implied all.. "the masses who love Survivor..."


Finish the quote. He said "the masses who love Survivor and crap like that *over quality drama*"

By your own admission, you are _not_ one of those people, so what's the problem?

EDIT: okay, you didn't admit to not being one of those people, mattack did. But the point stands... either you're not one of those people and shouldn't be insulted, or you _are_ one of those people, in which case who gives a f**k how you feel.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

dswallow said:


> She's still there... just inside the little boy.


I'm pretty sure that's illegal, even in San Francisco.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

smak said:


> I didn't really care much for the psychic though. Took it too much into the supernatural, where I don't think it really belongs.


I know, I was totally  during the Tarot Card reading. Before the business with Dan, it was such a blatant example of simple cold reading. Then I found it amusing that even in a show about _freaking time travel_, that tarot stuff looks ridiculous.  

What would have been an interesting way to play it is like they did with Whoopi Goldberg in 'Ghost'... where the psychic is just a run-of-the-mill charlatan, cold reading housefraus for pocket money, who suddenly has a _real_ paranormal experience for the first time and hilarity ensues.

Of course, that would involved giving the actress a much bigger part than the script called for. As it was, she's just the Exposition Fairy.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

heyoooooo


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Four pages. No I haven't read them all.

What's the deal with the meddlesome family members?

Last week we had the MIL giving her two cents about Kate (?). This week we have Kate's sister giving her two cents about Dan. As if we didn't have enough of that with Dan's brother. 

At what point were their opinions sought after? It's not like it is an unhealthy relationship. Even MIL and Sister should be able to see that. Then there is the 20 minutes of screen time devoted to the Brother's girlfriend. Someone I can't remember ever seeing before. Did I completely miss something? Is there some reason I should care that Dan's girlfriend is pregnant?

I admit that I 2x fast forwarded through these scenes but even when I gave them a chance it seems really out of place for the MIL to be talking to her son's wife like that. Regardless of past events.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Has Livia traveled to _her_ past? So far we only see her travel to her future, wherein it would be nonsensical for her to worry about leaving advanced technology (as she warned Dan).


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

Has Dan tried to contact the present day Livia? I think they said she was born in 1923 so she'd be 84 yrs. old or so, maybe still alive.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Timbeau said:


> Has Dan tried to contact the present day Livia? I think they said she was born in 1923 so she'd be 84 yrs. old or so, maybe still alive.


She was still alive when Dan's jumping started, because younger her was there (and they've said travelers can only travel within their lifetime)...


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Wouldn't Livia be older than 84 in present day, considering she lived 10 years or so in the 90's as a young woman?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She was still alive when Dan's jumping started, because younger her was there (and they've said travelers can only travel within their lifetime)...


They never said that was a rule of the travelling, they only said that they were limiting themselves at the time to only writing stories where Dan travelled within his lifetime.

If anything, it was probably a budgetary decision rather than a story decision.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Timbeau said:


> Has Dan tried to contact the present day Livia? I think they said she was born in 1923 so she'd be 84 yrs. old or so, maybe still alive.


Is your point that she'd have no way of knowing the bad consequences of anachronistic technology?

She still has been to 2007. Perhaps after her time in 2007 she jumped back "home" with some 21st technology and then jumped forward to, say, 1960 with her iPhone...


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

WinBear said:


> Wouldn't Livia be older than 84 in present day, considering she lived 10 years or so in the 90's as a young woman?


Well, time moves forward for Dan in his present time while he's gone...so one can assume that the same goes for Livia. So its quite possible that when she finally did return to her original time, it was 10 years later than when she was last there.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Jumping into the future seems really different from jumping into the past. Dan can look up the people's futures when he comes home, and is familiar with the historical events and technology of the past. Jumping into the future, you got nothing. 
If the during your lifetime is a rule, then Livia would know in 1940 that she won't die before 2007--unless someone messes up the timeline, of course. 
I wondered if she would look up her husband in the future and see if he survives the war.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> I wondered if she would look up her husband in the future and see if he survives the war.


Actually, I was expecting Dan to do that.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> Actually, I was expecting Dan to do that.


He probably would have in episode 14.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She was still alive when Dan's jumping started, because younger her was there (and they've said travelers can only travel within their lifetime)...


I know the producers have said that _Dan_ only jumps within his lifetime, but I don't think that's a hard rule for the series.


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## Lars_J (Feb 1, 2005)

Bryanmc said:


> I know the producers have said that _Dan_ only jumps within his lifetime, but I don't think that's a hard rule for the series.


I'm trying to avoid spoilers, but the last episode gives good hints that travel way outside of your lifetime is possible.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Lars_J said:


> I'm trying to avoid spoilers, but the last episode gives good hints that travel way outside of your lifetime is possible.


Right, I was going to mention that but didn't want to get too much into it in this thread.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

OMG, this episode was awesome! I loved those worried "don't erase my daughter" looks Katie was giving Dan. The Langley story is great stuff, reminiscent of those LOST mysteries.

This show is so good. Someone travel back in time and make NBC promote and place this show properly.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

did I hear this right?

when the SIL came in complaining of how the traffic grid was set up, didn't she say to Hugh, something like "Can't you gays figure something out". I don't think it was "guys", but I'm not sure.

Its insignificant anyway, but I'm just curious if that's what I heard..


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Lars_J said:


> I'm trying to avoid spoilers, but the last episode gives good hints that travel way outside of your lifetime is possible.


??? I'm trying to remember what you're talking about. Wrap it in spoiler tags if you have to.

EDIT: Oh, I think I remember now...



Spoiler



Langley mentioning the clay models of airplanes in Incan times and stuff like that... right?


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

goMO said:


> did I hear this right?
> 
> when the SIL came in complaining of how the traffic grid was set up, didn't she say to Hugh, something like "Can't you gays figure something out". I don't think it was "guys", but I'm not sure.
> 
> Its insignificant anyway, but I'm just curious if that's what I heard..


I thought she said, "Can't your gays figure something out," and Hugh said, "_My_ gays?"


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## Lars_J (Feb 1, 2005)

busyba said:


> ??? I'm trying to remember what you're talking about. Wrap it in spoiler tags if you have to.
> EDIT: Oh, I think I remember now...
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, thats it!


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Bryanmc said:


> I thought she said, "Can't your gays figure something out," and Hugh said, "_My_ gays?"


That was what she said...


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Bryanmc said:


> I thought she said, "Can't your gays figure something out," and Hugh said, "_My_ gays?"


It is San Francisco.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

WinBear said:


> It is San Francisco.


You don't have to explain it to me, I got it.


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## IDSmoker (Apr 11, 2004)

I thought the writers were saying that SIL thought that Hugh was gay?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

IDSmoker said:


> I thought the writers were saying that SIL thought that Hugh was gay?


No, she was just commenting on the stereotype that gay men are obsessively neat and tidy, so in a city filled with gay men, things should be much more organized.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Wasn't there also a gay comment to the new FBI guy? I thought I recalled something about the gay men's chorus.


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