# Homeland "The Star" 12/15/2013 Season Three Finale



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

RIP Nicholas Brody


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

I can't believe they killed him, but I can't see where his character would have gone from there.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

It's time for a Homeland reboot. Next year could be interesting, many different paths they could take.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Agreed. Enough with the Brody clan. Time to move on. I would like to see Saul back at the CIA or involved in the show, but it's Mandy Pantikin's habit to bail from excellent shows at this point, so if he follows the same pattern, we're stuck with Dar Adal who isn't so bad, but he's no Saul. Glad to see Quinn still in the game. I suspect he and Carrie will hook up at some point. Two Secret Agents and a Baby. Sounds like a bad sit-com.


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## consumedsoul (Jan 13, 2013)

astrohip said:


> RIP Nicholas Brody


wow this came thru my rss feed and it showed the 'rip'. thx for the spoiler.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Dont blame others for your fail in subscribing to stuff 

Yeah gonna miss Damien but tough to see other resolution


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

consumedsoul said:


> wow this came thru my rss feed and it showed the 'rip'. thx for the spoiler.












This is a thread for the season finale. Unfortunate the thread title doesn't say ** SPOILERS **, but that should be implied in a thread for the episode.

Is Saul a moron? He needs to stay away from that wife of his.

Very true that Patinkin usually exits TV series at this point, but they did give him an out. He'll be in New York, no longer in the CIA, with Carrie being in Istanbul.

Greg


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I think an undercurrent of the first season, and to some part, the second season, was the relationship between Saul and Carrie. But that was never really explored. I'd love to see some real backstory on that in the next season as to what they really went through in the past.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

That's not how you hang a man. You're supposed to snap his neck.

I was waiting for Carrie to ring Jess Brody's doorbell and give her the baby.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end the series right there. No Saul. No Nick. 
Carrie alone isn't going to cut it and they'll have to bring in a bunch of new characters, even if Quinn goes with her.
Where are they going to dig up another is he/isn't he conflict.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> That's not how you hang a man. You're supposed to snap his neck.


Seemed to accomplish the goal just fine.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> I was waiting for Carrie to ring Jess Brody's doorbell and give her the baby.


"Here you go - another Brody daughter - this time with twice the crazy!"


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MacThor said:


> MikeAndrews said:
> 
> 
> > I was waiting for Carrie to ring Jess Brody's doorbell and give her the baby.
> ...


"She's a cute little bastard!"


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The wife and I surmise Carrie will hire Saul to be part of her team assuming he stays around. The director did say she could pick her own team and that look at the end made me wonder.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Is it just me, but did this episode almost seem like a series finale rather than a season finale?


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

It does but I thought it had been renewed for season 4.

Carrie does seem strangely calm though. I thought she would be angrier.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

squint said:


> It does but I thought it had been renewed for season 4.


It has.


squint said:


> Carrie does seem strangely calm though. I thought she would be angrier.


For a trained field agent, she's always sucked at concealing her emotions. Maybe during "four months later" she finally got the memo and took the refresher course.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

Whether this was a series finale or not, the quality of the show has deteriorated to the point where my season pass is now cancelled.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Shakhari said:


> Whether this was a series finale or not, the quality of the show has deteriorated to the point where my season pass is now cancelled.


I felt the last 3 or 4 episodes "redeemed" itself almost to S1 levels, after the crappy second season and weak first half of the third season. Enough to see what happens next. But if S4 gets crappy again, I can totally see this turning into a "Dexter" where there's one big bad guy each season with little sub plots to keep it going for an hour. That would be bad.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> That's not how you hang a man. You're supposed to snap his neck.


I think you want to snap the neck if you want them to die quick. I think they wanted Brody to suffer.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

gchance said:


> Is Saul a moron? He needs to stay away from that wife of his.


Why?

I was happy to see them together. Of course, that's either Saul's send off or the setup for "look how happy he his, now we take it all away again".


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## erk48188 (Aug 16, 2002)

station chief? really? i know it's just a tv show but come on how stupid do the writers think we are?


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

snowjay said:


> Is it just me, but did this episode almost seem like a series finale rather than a season finale?


Personally I rather would have seen the series just wrap up. They could have really closed everything up neatly with this episode. Brody is dead, Saul retired with a delayed win, and Carrie could have just retired or changed careers to focus on being a mother, or she could have been shot in Iran trying to save Brody.

When the show continues does that mean half of the cast is being let go, mainly Brody's family and friend? The only way I could see them sticking around is if Dana goes rogue and starts planning attacks or something.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I wonder if the scene with Mr & Mrs Saul at the villa was shot later? Because when they talked about Saul's victory in the rest of the episode, it seemed vague (probably just referring to getting their man in place), but in that scene it was very specifically tied to the recent deal with Iran, which had to have happened long after they wrapped for the season...and which no one really saw coming.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Hank said:


> I felt the last 3 or 4 episodes "redeemed" itself almost to S1 levels, after the crappy second season and weak first half of the third season. Enough to see what happens next. But if S4 gets crappy again, I can totally see this turning into a "Dexter" where there's one big bad guy each season with little sub plots to keep it going for an hour. That would be bad.


I'd say the first 4 episodes sucked, but the last 8 were pretty darn good. the turn started when Saul/Carrie "outed" their plan to the audience. The finale was a bit of a letdown since there was little change that Brodie would escape Iran unharmed, and there was little use for his character for a Season 4.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I wonder if the scene with Mr & Mrs Saul at the villa was shot later? Because when they talked about Saul's victory in the rest of the episode, it seemed vague (probably just referring to getting their man in place), but in that scene it was very specifically tied to the recent deal with Iran, which had to have happened long after they wrapped for the season...and which no one really saw coming.


I didn't see it being tied with real world events. Just a moment to show that Saul's long term play strategy was successful.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

MikeAndrews said:


> That's not how you hang a man. You're supposed to snap his neck.


Depends on whether you're trying to be merciful or not. He's dead either way, but the slow lift like they did here is a much longer more painful death as you asphyxiate while still conscious.

The Iranians probably did the slow death by hanging deliberately. 
(Plus it's probably easier for the show to do safely without dummies or CGI )


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

consumedsoul said:


> wow this came thru my rss feed and it showed the 'rip'. thx for the spoiler.


This is a thread for a specific episode, clearly titled in the subject line. Any post is likely to have spoilers. Heck, EVERY post is likely to have spoilers. As far as the Forum rules:



> Official Episode Threads:
> When starting a discussion about a specific show episode, please put the air date and name of the program (and title if you know it) in the subject line. (ie: Lost, Man of Science, Man of Faith, 11/16.)
> 
> This will be the official thread for that week, and *anything within that thread may contain spoilers for that show*. It is also okay to mention a plot point from any previous episode. If you are not caught up on this show, and do not wish to read spoilers, do not open this thread.


Apology accepted.



MikeAndrews said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they end the series right there. No Saul. No Nick.
> Carrie alone isn't going to cut it and they'll have to bring in a bunch of new characters, even if Quinn goes with her.
> Where are they going to dig up another is he/isn't he conflict.


As has been noted, Homeland has been renewed for a 4th season. I look at this as a reboot. The showrunners & writers have a chance to start with a mostly clean slate. I look forward to seeing where the next season takes us.



Shakhari said:


> Whether this was a series finale or not, the quality of the show has deteriorated to the point where my season pass is now cancelled.


See my reply above. This show has been incredible at times, and frustrating at others. But it's still one of the best dramas on TV. I will, without hesitation, give it a chance next year.

I read an interview (a year or so ago) with Howard Gordon and Alex Gansa (showrunners) in which they talked about their writing process. They said they spend all their creative juices writing for the current year. They don't really worry about "next year" until next year. IOW, they don't have a seven year arc already written in their minds. They want to create the best season they can, and if they should be blessed with another year, then face it in another year.

So they have a few months to decide where they want Homeland to go.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markymark_ctown said:


> I didn't see it being tied with real world events. Just a moment to show that Saul's long term play strategy was successful.


But in the villa scene, they specifically mentioned the Iran nuclear deal, and tied it to Saul's actions.

The rest of the episode, I agree with you. It was just vague talk about Saul's victory. That's why I think the villa scene was added recently.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But in the villa scene, they specifically mentioned the Iran nuclear deal, and tied it to Saul's actions.
> 
> The rest of the episode, I agree with you. It was just vague talk about Saul's victory. That's why I think the villa scene was added recently.


Yes, I see what your saying, but the US/Isreali demands on Iran's nuclear program have been on the table for a while. I would think it is just coincidence.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markymark_ctown said:


> Yes, I see what your saying, but the US/Isreali demands on Iran's nuclear program have been on the table for a while. I would think it is just coincidence.


I don't know, there was just that one scene, which takes place (for no apparent reason) in another location, in which the deal is very specifically mentioned...and nowhere else in the episode.

I really think they did a "topical reshoot" to add the mention of the deal. Otherwise, why go to the expense and hassle of setting up another location for just one scene that does not otherwise tie into the rest of the episode?

And while there have been demands on the table, that's been the case for years, with no hint that a deal would ever happen. That's why the hawks were so outraged at the announcement...they (along with everybody else) assumed that the only reasonable options were nothing happening or military strikes.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

erk48188 said:


> station chief? really? i know it's just a tv show but come on how stupid do the writers think we are?


C'Mon! Why not? Lockwood knows that Carrie is only bi-polar, unpredictable, almost always refuses direct orders, allows her judgement to be clouded, is carrying the out-of-wedlock baby of her target, and just added her own star to the wall and is unquestionably loyal his predecessor. 

"Carrie, you know why Saul had to go.." Why? Because he engineered world peace without using a drone? (Because Mandy Patinkin never stays with a series this long.)

Hey, Carrie, way to be undercover, climb the fence and nobody in the crowd is going to notice that an American woman is flipping out.

Brody should have had a chance to talk to an Iman and scream out one last "Allah Akbar!"


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But in the villa scene, they specifically mentioned the Iran nuclear deal, and tied it to Saul's actions.
> 
> The rest of the episode, I agree with you. It was just vague talk about Saul's victory. That's why I think the villa scene was added recently.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't know, there was just that one scene, which takes place (for no apparent reason) in another location, in which the deal is very specifically mentioned...and nowhere else in the episode.
> 
> I really think they did a "topical reshoot" to add the mention of the deal. Otherwise, why go to the expense and hassle of setting up another location for just one scene that does not otherwise tie into the rest of the episode?
> 
> And while there have been demands on the table, that's been the case for years, with no hint that a deal would ever happen. That's why the hawks were so outraged at the announcement...they (along with everybody else) assumed that the only reasonable options were nothing happening or military strikes.


They must have jumped right on the added scene, because Mandy was revelling that now that the season of Homeland was over he finally could shave the beard...and not be recognized so quickly.






http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/12/05/mandy-patinkin-shaves-off-saul-beard/3877679/


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Mo Ryan hits right on a lot of the points:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/homeland-season-finale_b_4451104.html

No to mention that everything - EVERYTHING that happened, *happened in 4 MONTHS* - between Carrie and Nick at the cabin making the baby to the very end where Carrie is 4 Months pregnant.

_In 4 MONTHS_: the suicide vest; the VP is killed; track and kill Abu Nazzir; the Langley bombing; Brody's long trip around the world to hell in Caracas; Carrie gets locked up and doped up in the mental ward; She gets sprung; they lure, turn, and send back Javardi, Brody's Heroin addiction, recovery, retraining, insertion to Iran, the end.

That hospital must have a hella of compressed rehab program.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I thought she would be in much more trouble for being a white woman there and shouting Brody's name. The crowd seemed to ignore her for the most part though. Don't know how realistic that would be.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Azlen said:


> I thought she would be in much more trouble for being a white woman there and shouting Brody's name. The crowd seemed to ignore her for the most part though. Don't know how realistic that would be.


Poor Brody, who didn't want her there in the first place, not only has to go through being hoisted 50 feet into the air by his neck, but has to deal with a woman climbing a fence to shout his name.

Greg


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

gchance said:


> Poor Brody, who didn't want her there in the first place, not only has to go through being hoisted 50 feet into the air by his neck, but has to deal with a woman climbing a fence to shout his name.


Let that be a lesson for him (a lifelong lesson). If you don't want a crazy woman climbing a fence and shouting your name while you asphyxiate on the end of a rope hanging from a crane in Iran, *then don't sleep with crazy women!*


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Mo Ryan hits right on a lot of the points:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/homeland-season-finale_b_4451104.html
> 
> No to mention that everything - EVERYTHING that happened, *happened in 4 MONTHS* - between Carrie and Nick at the cabin making the baby to the very end where Carrie is 4 Months pregnant.
> ...


That can't be right. The four months started when Carrie dropped Brody off at the Canadian border (and I'm assuming they "did it").


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Hank said:


> That can't be right. The four months started when Carrie dropped Brody off at the Canadian border (and I'm assuming they "did it").


she told him she was 4 months pregnant from their time together at the lake


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Mo Ryan hits right on a lot of the points:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/homeland-season-finale_b_4451104.html


And yet for all the flaws in Season 3, it represented a massive improvement over Season 2. In fact, I'd go so far as to say in Season 3 they made it almost halfway back to where they were in Season 1!

Almost.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Fahtrim said:


> she told him she was 4 months pregnant from their time together at the lake


There are a lot of lakes on the way to Canada. So Brody was a congressman for what, 4 days? Dana was in rehab for 14 minutes? It just doesn't add up, sorry.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

duh it doesn't add up, it's tvland see MikeAndrews' post above


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Fahtrim said:


> duh it doesn't add up, it's tvland see MikeAndrews' post above


I still contend that four months started when Brody escaped to Canada, which makes a lot more sense the jamming "everything that happened" into the 4 month time frame.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Not that this is authoritative, but the homeland wikia page has this:

2011 
Sergeant Nick Brody returned home after eight years of captivity. 
December 17th: Elizabeth Gaines was shot and killed by Tom Walker. 
December 18th Tom Walker was shot in the head and killed by Nick Brody. 

2012 
December 12th: A bomb exploded at the CIA headquarters during a memorial service for Vice President William Walden, killing 219 people including, Cynthia Walden, Finn Walden and David Estes. 

2013
February 3rd: Carrie Mathison began being questioned by Senator Andrew Lockhart in regards to the CIA bombing that occurred 58 days earlier. 
Unknown: Nick Brody is executed in Iran, by hanging.

So this has two months between the bomb going off and Carrie being questioned by Lockhart. So everything before the bomb going off happened in two months?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

From Wikipedia:

Season 1, episode 7: "The Weekend": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weekend_(Homeland)



> Brody (Damian Lewis) explains to Carrie (Claire Danes) that he needs to take a little time away from home. After stopping at a bar and having some drinks, Carrie suggests they go to a cabin out in the country that her family owns. They have sex shortly after arriving, and spend a very enjoyable, romantic day at the cabin together. Both seem to be much more comfortable and at ease with each other than with anyone else.... Carrie and Brody cook dinner and have sex again. During the night, Brody has a nightmare. He wakes up yelling out "Issa! No!". Carrie hears this and tries to calm him down.


Season 2, Episode 1: "The Smile": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smile



> Set roughly six months after the events of the Season 1 finale...


Season 2, episode 12 (the finale): The Choice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Choice_(Homeland)



> Carrie (Claire Danes) and Brody (Damian Lewis) spend another night at the cabin where they had their previous tryst.


So their last "tryst" happened at the end of season 2 right before the bombing. So only all of season 3 happened in four months.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Hank said:


> So their last "tryst" happened at the end of season 2 right before the bombing. So only all of season 3 happened in four months.


Which is still Brody's entire trip on the underground railroad, getting shot, Carcacus, patched up, hiding out, seeking the Iman, heroin addiction, cleanup, retraining, etc.

The US reels from the Langley bombing. Lockhart holds hearings.

Carrie going back to work, flipping out, hospital, confinement, medication, sprung, approached by Iran, luring Javardi, Javadi enters the US, gets turned sent back...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Which is still Brody's entire trip on the underground railroad, getting shot, Carcacus, patched up, hiding out, seeking the Iman, heroin addiction, cleanup, retraining, etc.
> 
> The US reels from the Langley bombing. Lockhart holds hearings.
> 
> Carrie going back to work, flipping out, hospital, confinement, medication, sprung, approached by Iran, luring Javardi, Javadi enters the US, gets turned sent back...


Well sure, but at least that's believable. But going back to Season 1 before the vest bombing is YEARS, not MONTHS. Big difference.

The fact that Carrie got preggers at the end of S2, I'm sure the writers were keenly aware of that timeline in S3.

eta: also, those three strings of events in your post happened concurrently.


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

You guys are getting your kNickers(pun intended) in a bind for nothing! Upon learning of Brody's fate, Saul made a secret call to the new Iranian security chief(forget his name) and they arrange for Brody's execution to be staged. How? A body harness and Brody playing the part like the expert deceiver that he is master of! Whether or not Carrie is purview to the deception remains to be seen. Just my 2 Lincolns!


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

Oh yeah...forgot to mention this is made more clear in season 4.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Nah, Brody's dead.


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

Ha ha, I'll remember you said that when season 4 starts...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Please do. But Brody won't be there to gloat along with you.


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

Yeah...I know he is really dead. Just wanted to beat that dead horse one last time!
RIP Brody, I will miss your creepy looking eyes! Not!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Here's an article with the showrunner Alex Gansa about the ending of S3 and Brody and Carrie and Saul. There aren't really any spoilers (since they haven't written anything yet), but he does talk about things to expect (or not) and how they're approaching the writing process going forward.

If you really don't want to know *anything* about S4, then don't read it. But it does answer some other questions posed in this thread like:

"Is Mandy P leaving?"


Spoiler



No, he's not.


"Will we see Dana and Jessica again"


Spoiler



Possibly, but they don't know for sure



Stuff like that.

Link to article: 
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/12/16/homeland-finale-brody-interview/


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

stinkbomb1020 said:


> Yeah...I know he is really dead. Just wanted to beat that dead horse one last time!
> RIP Brody, I will miss your creepy looking eyes! Not!


Ok, I wasn't sure if you were serious. In a different article, the show runner said there won't be any "magic tricks" that bring Brody back (like a time machine.)


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

For some reason I wanted to see Brody escape his date with fate but realized a very few moments after posting, as I just finished watching the episode, his time in the story was at an end and he and/or the viewers needed a dramatic end to his character.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

stinkbomb1020 said:


> For some reason I wanted to see Brody escape his date with fate but realized a very few moments after posting, as I just finished watching the episode, his time in the story was at an end and he and/or the viewers needed a dramatic end to his character.


If Brody escaped, that would be the death knell for the series. I would NOT watch another season of Carrie+Brody melodrama. Give me special-ops, clandestine missions, and international espionage, not afternoon soap-opera crap.

I think what's surprising is very rarely is the major character of a series killed off, leaving an almost blank slate to start over. I didn't watch Game of Thrones, so I don't know if what happened there was comparable, but I can't think of another TV series that killed off the major character like Homeland has done. I think the trope is usually let them ride off into the sunset never to be seen/heard from again, but never a public hanging in Iran.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

Hank said:


> Ok, I wasn't sure if you were serious. In a different article, the show runner said there won't be any "magic tricks" that bring Brody back (like a time machine.)


I dunno, sometimes they come back


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Hank said:


> If Brody escaped, that would be the death knell for the series. I would NOT watch another season of Carrie+Brody melodrama. Give me special-ops, clandestine missions, and international espionage, not afternoon soap-opera crap.


I totally agree. You have to suspend your disbelief in watching shows like this, but there is a limit to that. Brody burned his bridges in the US, and then burned them in Iran. Where could he possibly go that he would be safe without lots of money or government influence, neither of which he had.



Hank said:


> I think what's surprising is very rarely is the major character of a series killed off, leaving an almost blank slate to start over. I didn't watch Game of Thrones, so I don't know if what happened there was comparable, but I can't think of another TV series that killed off the major character like Homeland has done. I think the trope is usually let them ride off into the sunset never to be seen/heard from again, but never a public hanging in Iran.


The UK series "Spooks" ("MI-5" in the US) did this, Harry Pierce (roughly the Saul Equivalent) lived through the series but the 3 or 4 agents who worked for him had all sorts of misfortunes, it added a layer of suspense to the show, you didn't know if they really were going to kill off the character when you saw the the bad guys threatening our heroes.

Game of Thrones, not so much. Yeah they killed off (and continue to kill off) major characters, but there are so many characters in the saga that it doesn't come close to "clearing the slate".


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

MikeAndrews said:


> C'Mon! Why not? Lockwood knows that Carrie is only bi-polar, unpredictable, almost always refuses direct orders, allows her judgement to be clouded, is carrying the out-of-wedlock baby of her target, and just added her own star to the wall and is unquestionably loyal his predecessor.
> 
> "Carrie, you know why Saul had to go.." Why? Because he engineered world peace without using a drone? (Because Mandy Patinkin never stays with a series this long.)
> 
> ...


lol. Perfect!


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I enjoyed season 3 for the most part, I think we all pretty much agree season 2 was pretty bad. I'll certainly be around for season 4 and see where it goes. I hope Saul is back but I won't be shocked of Pantinkin bolts.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> I think what's surprising is very rarely is the major character of a series killed off, leaving an almost blank slate to start over. I didn't watch Game of Thrones, so I don't know if what happened there was comparable, but I can't think of another TV series that killed off the major character like Homeland has done. I think the trope is usually let them ride off into the sunset never to be seen/heard from again, but never a public hanging in Iran.


Although I would argue that Carrie, not Brody, has always been "the" major character. This is probably a very good analogy to Game of Thrones, where a character who seems a lot more important than he actually is gets killed off, and the characters who have quietly been doing the heavy lifting go on. (Although in Game of Thrones it was brilliant writing, whereas here I think it was more a side effect of milking a character for all he's worth and then discarding him.)


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

I'll be tuning-in to Season 4 to see how Quinn takes out Lockhart with a precise sniper shot.  What a wonderfully despicable character he is.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

markp99 said:


> I'll be tuning-in to Season 4 to see how Quinn takes out Lockhart with a precise sniper shot.  What a wonderfully despicable character he is.


Quinn or Lockhart?


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Lockhart - such an easy character to hate.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yeah, he needs to go... I often wonder how much of that is the character writing, or the actor acting.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

stinkbomb1020 said:


> You guys are getting your kNickers(pun intended) in a bind for nothing! Upon learning of Brody's fate, Saul made a secret call to the new Iranian security chief(forget his name) and they arrange for Brody's execution to be staged. How? A body harness and Brody playing the part like the expert deceiver that he is master of! Whether or not Carrie is purview to the deception remains to be seen. Just my 2 Lincolns!


Well he did a great job making his head look Charlie Brown. Good acting.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I understand why they killed Brody. He was done. But at the same time, I fear that something similar will happen to Homeland as happened to 24 once they got rid of pretty much anyone Jack Bauer ever cared about. The show ceases to be about the characters and becomes only about the plot. It becomes villian of the year. That's often not distinguishable enough from a villian of the week procedural to keep me interested. 

Do the people at Langley other than Quinn know whose baby Carrie is carrying (no pun intended)? Odd that we didn't get to see them find out. Especially Saul.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

DeDondeEs said:


> Personally I rather would have seen the series just wrap up. They could have really closed everything up neatly with this episode. Brody is dead, Saul retired with a delayed win, and Carrie could have just retired or changed careers to focus on being a mother, or she could have been shot in Iran trying to save Brody.
> 
> When the show continues does that mean half of the cast is being let go, mainly Brody's family and friend? *The only way I could see them sticking around is if Dana goes rogue and starts planning attacks or something*.


Your posting privileges in this thread should be suspended for even publicly suggesting that. C'mon man, there might be some Showtime execs monitoring this thread!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Brody's (and his wife's) friend Mike is now on "The Blacklist", so he's doing okay.
I look forward to whatever show Morena Baccharin shows up in again. <3


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

That was a fantastic finale. The finale was Season 1 quality, IMO. And the finale of season 1 wasn't that great -- this was better. As far as the overall season goes, it was kind of uneven in quality. But way better than season 2 overall. I am now hopeful that the show will not go the way of 24 (recycled plots and plot structure).


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Did anyone else think it was strange that when Carrie told Brody she was pregnant he was all excited about it, then - what - 5 minutes later, he was all - "I want it to be over" - Um, dude, you were just excited about a new life, then you want to die? 

The hanging was HARDCORE! The dude's wife and kids get to confront Brody, and his wife spit in his face, then she gets to place the noose around his neck...WHOA!

I LOVED it when Carrie drew the star on the wall at the end...sooo Carrie! "Agree to disagree" indeed!


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Hank said:


> I think what's surprising is very rarely is the major character of a series killed off, leaving an almost blank slate to start over. I didn't watch Game of Thrones, so I don't know if what happened there was comparable, but I can't think of another TV series that killed off the major character like Homeland has done. I think the trope is usually let them ride off into the sunset never to be seen/heard from again, but never a public hanging in Iran.


Not blank slates, but 

The Shield (near the end),
Sons of Anarchy (lots!),
the UK version of Shameless,
Kenny from Southpark,
J.R.,
29 Most Shocking TV Deaths


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although I would argue that Carrie, not Brody, has always been "the" major character. This is probably a very good analogy to Game of Thrones, where a character who seems a lot more important than he actually is gets killed off, and the characters who have quietly been doing the heavy lifting go on. (Although in Game of Thrones it was brilliant writing, whereas here I think it was more a side effect of milking a character for all he's worth and then discarding him.)


I skimmed something online where the writers/creators said that the original plan for Brody was to last much less than 3 seasons. They lengthened his arc because of the chemistry with Carrie. It's always been Carrie's show.


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## grey ghost (Feb 2, 2010)

What if Brody wasn't actually hanged? What if they simulated the hanging and then sneaked him out? How would the CIA hire a station chief with an untreated mental illness? All of it has just gotten dumb. Really enjoyed the first two seasons, but this season was kind of dumb, IMHO.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

grey ghost said:


> What if Brody wasn't actually hanged? What if they simulated the hanging and then sneaked him out?


He's dead, Jim.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0yXqU-w9U0[/media]

Nicholas Brody is still dead.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=butZyxI-PRs[/media]


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> Not blank slates, but
> 
> The Shield (near the end),
> Sons of Anarchy (lots!),
> ...


To be fair, though, Hank said "*THE *major character," not "*A *major character."


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

grey ghost said:


> What if Brody wasn't actually hanged? What if they simulated the hanging and then sneaked him out?


He's dead. The showrunners have said in no uncertain terms that* he is dead*.

Season Four will be a reboot. It's exactly what the show needs, a fresh start and a new story line. No Brody, probably little to no Brody family. It will be Carrie and Saul and whoever else they want. But not Brody.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Part of the reason the first season was so brilliant and what followed...not so much, is that the premise was fascinating but not sustainable. And they've been afraid (until now) not to sustain it.

Now they'll need a new premise, but that should be pretty easy to organically extract from the existing elements of the show.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Which is still Brody's entire trip on the underground railroad, getting shot, Carcacus, patched up, hiding out, seeking the Iman, heroin addiction, cleanup, retraining, etc.
> 
> The US reels from the Langley bombing. Lockhart holds hearings.
> 
> Carrie going back to work, flipping out, hospital, confinement, medication, sprung, approached by Iran, luring Javardi, Javadi enters the US, gets turned sent back...


Well the hearings and all that stuff took place 60 days after the bombing. That's when episode 1 opened. So you have to assume that all of Season 3 (at least until the end when they jumped ahead) took place in about 2 more months. It's a bit of a stretch but not absolutely insane. Also she said she was 4 months pregnant but it could have been 4 and a half. I think it's doable, certainly by TV timelines.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

If you are going to discuss spoilers about other shows, please use spoiler tags. Some of us have not seen Game of Thrones yet.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

stinkbomb1020 said:


> You guys are getting your kNickers(pun intended) in a bind for nothing! Upon learning of Brody's fate, Saul made a secret call to the new Iranian security chief(forget his name) and they arrange for Brody's execution to be staged. How? A body harness and Brody playing the part like the expert deceiver that he is master of! Whether or not Carrie is purview to the deception remains to be seen. Just my 2 Lincolns!


I think to do a cover-up like that you'd risk exposing the Iranian security chief's double-agent status.

That would suck being a commercial crane operator in Iran. You get to hoist some steel beams to a new building, or a new AC unit to a roof, then you get a job at 4am where you have to hoist a guy up in a noose.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DeDondeEs said:


> That would suck being a commercial crane operator in Iran. You get to hoist some steel beams to a new building, or a new AC unit to a roof, then you get a job at 4am where you have to hoist a guy up in a noose.


Are you kidding? That's what makes it all worthwhile!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Especially since the Crane Operators Union probably mandates time-and-a-half for overnight work like that.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

gweempose said:


> If you are going to discuss spoilers about other shows, please use spoiler tags. Some of us have not seen Game of Thrones yet.


Anyone who hasn't seen Game of Thrones yet needs to run out and get it, do not pass go, and waste no more time watching any other shows until you do.


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## erk48188 (Aug 16, 2002)

i think i'm done with the series. i can't imagine watching any more crazy carrie.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

erk48188 said:


> i think i'm done with the series. i can't imagine watching any more crazy carrie.


Are you kidding? That's what makes it all worthwhile!


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Anyone who hasn't seen Game of Thrones yet needs to run out and get it, do not pass go, and waste no more time watching any other shows until you do.


It's on my list. I just have to get through some other stuff first. I'm about halfway through The Shield, and then I plan on watching The Wire.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

gweempose said:


> If you are going to discuss spoilers about other shows, please use spoiler tags. Some of us have not seen Game of Thrones yet.





stellie93 said:


> Anyone who hasn't seen Game of Thrones yet needs to run out and get it, do not pass go, and waste no more time watching any other shows until you do.


Not to mention that I don't think there was anything that worth a spoiler tag in this thread. What did we disclose:
1. Many characters have been killed
2. Not so many that the series could be considered as having a "clean slate"

Anyone with an interest in watching GoT probably could figure out that this would probably happen. Have you heard this joke "Why does George RR Martin not use Twitter? -- He's already killed 140 characters"?

Now if I listed those who got killed towards the end of series 3 (I won't) or in the last half of series 1 (which really shocked me, because I was unfamiliar with the stories, after that the end of Series 3 was still stunning, but less of a shock).


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

erk48188 said:


> i think i'm done with the series. i can't imagine watching any more crazy carrie.


WAIT! WOAH! Imagine Crazy Carrie locked up _in a Turkish prison_ (mental ward)!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> WAIT! WOAH! Imagine Crazy Carrie locked up _in a Turkish prison_ (mental ward)!












Greg


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## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

tlc said:


> I skimmed something online where the writers/creators said that the original plan for Brody was to last much less than 3 seasons. They lengthened his arc because of the chemistry with Carrie. It's always been Carrie's show.


I am sure getting the Emmy helped a bit.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

This would be a perfect time to end this show before it goes completely "24" on us.

Claire Danes is one one of my favorite actors but her character will continue to wear on people's nerves more and more. She should pull a Mandy Patinkin (without singing soprano) and move on to other challenging roles.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Disagree. I am looking forward to the Homeland reboot. Great writers, great actors, and a setting (CIA/spy stuff) that allows for all kinds of stories.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I agree, I just hope they don't go all formulaic/Dexter on us. Or as some said "24" (which I've never watched).


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I had avoided watching the season after hearing so many negative comments but I just binged it over the last week and I really enjoyed it (binge watching maybe helps). I knew that someone major died in the last ep and it wasn't hard to guess who so that was not big shock (was it a shock to others ?). But I thought the season was pretty good.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

It got off to a slow start, but I thought this season was great. Certainly better than season 2.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

just started watching this series a month ago. like some of my other fav shows, you can say 'no way will he get out of this one' about a dozen times per ep. it was almost nice to have him not get out of this one and it end like this. they kept pulling rabbits out of hats and it just seemed crazier and crazier. so nice to have finality

but not.

the idea of her station chief by the new guy that hates her is crazy even for this show. whats next. saul being asst chief? and her starting new job while preg just seems a tad nuts since she will be out a while with the baby regardless of keeping it or not. 

the show does built up some really good stress at times though. the times he didnt follow through with stuff were stirring indeed. 

i welcome more good entertainment


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