# Using Videora to convert from 16:9 to 4:3 Letterbox



## rneily

Well, I've been beating my head to figure out how to convert 16:9 HD material that I download from Bittorrent to 4:3 letterbox on my crappy old non-widescreen TV.

Here is what I found to do... Videora is using basically ffmpeg on the backend with some options. Thankfully you can supply your own options in the software:

Go to Setup, and then click on the profiles tab. There you can supply "Custom FFmpeg Flags" to pass to FFmpeg. 

What I have done is taken the material I have downloaded and computed how large the letterbox bands are supposed to be with some simple math and then changed the ffmpeg options accordingly:

For my media which is 512x272, I have found that it correctly displays on my tivo assing the Custom FFmpeg flag: "-s 720x352 -padtop 64 -padbottom 64" (without quotations of course)

This flag does the following:

"-s 720x352" - overrides the Viedeora directive (because it comes later in the command line options videora passes to FFmpeg) to allways format the video to 720x480 and makes is 720x352. The horizontal value will allways be 720, the vertical value will be 480 - top bar value - bottom bar value (480-64-64=352)

"-padtop 64 --padbottom 64" add the proper "letterbox bars" to the top and bottom of the screen. Adjust this accordingly for your widescreen video. I read someplace that this should be in increments of 16, but I am not sure why. 

I am pretty sure that padding 64 is correct for displaying 1.88 Widescreen on 4:3 with 720x480, but someone might want to check my math... I've allready had a few cold ones!


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## DevdogAZ

Awesome!! I'll definitely play with this when I get home tonight and hopefully it will be the solution I've been looking for. I really appreciate you posting this.


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## rneily

Oh and another thing, Make sure you have the Aspect Ratio set to 4:3 on that same page. 

I just created a whole new profile called "16x9 to 4:3". I have used the bitrate of 1024kbps just for now (to speed transcoding) but I am sure if you incresed the bitrate it would work...


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## DevdogAZ

Thank you so much. I did what you said and it worked like a charm. I saved the profile and will now be able to watch all my HDTV downloads on my TV.


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## rneily

No problem, glad it worked for you. I was really frusterated that I couldnt do it. It's nice to be watching 16:9 in the correct aspect ratio.


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## tbdenigman

Could someone help me with the math on this one. I just tried this on one movie and it worked great. On the second movie, it isn't 16:9 it's wider (not sure what that translates to) and would like to know the math formula for proper conversion.

Thanks

Tony

edit: I think the aspect ration of the movie is 2.35:1


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## archieleach

I am so happy someone came up with a solution to this problem. Thank you so much!


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## rneily

tbdenigman said:


> Could someone help me with the math on this one. I just tried this on one movie and it worked great. On the second movie, it isn't 16:9 it's wider (not sure what that translates to) and would like to know the math formula for proper conversion.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tony
> 
> edit: I think the aspect ration of the movie is 2.35:1


I have been looking for a way to check my math, and I've found this website:

http://www.haku.co.uk/ARCT.html

Basically, at the top, you can input the resolution of the file you want to convert, and then the Tivo horizontal resolution will usually be 720. Click calculate and it should give you the proper width and height of the new video in 4:3.

You can use that vertical number and subtract from the 480 and divide by 2 to get the size of the letterbox bars at the top and bottom of the new video.

So far it's worked for me. As always, YMMV.


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## Stu_Bee

I've gone back and forth between using Videora and WinAVI for converting shows from AVI to MPG.

I've noticed
- WinAVI will autodetect the source framesize (ie 16:9, 2.39:1, etc) and will letterbox accordingly. Videora will only output what you tell it. If you choose 16:9 as the output it will squish the 2.39 input to fit.
- Probably related to the above issue. Winavi does convert to 16:9, but renders on my HDTV in a way I have to 'Zoom' for it to display as 16:9. The resolution of this mode, however, does seem the same as the Videora conversion normal 16:9 display.
- Very Minor: Files I convert with Videora, don't seem to work properly when Tivo FastForwardingx1. The Tivo FFx1 speed just seems to be normal speed without the audio..very weird. I only noticed this the other day.


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## Aflat

This has been working great for all DVD's I throw at it. Now I can convert my DVD library to hard drive, and jsut play it on my Tivo's instead of digging through the DVDs. 

Dave Zatz guide had a few more steps, DVD Fab decryptor, DVD Shrink, DVD2AVI, TMPG, which all are free, except the TMPG encoder to mpg2. It was only $30, or you can finagle the registry, or you can convert to another format and use Videora. 

I tried ffmpeg, but I don't know enough about video to use all those command line switches. With this solution, I can back up any DVD with just 3 steps, DVD Fab Decryptor, DVD Shrink, Videora, and I get both 4:3 letterbox, and 16:9 widescreen(that is what DVD Shrink outputs)


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## MickeS

I still don't understand what is different between my Videora and you guys's's's's's...

When I have a HDTV 16:9 rip and convert it to tivo format, I just choose one of the the predefined 720*480 16:9 profiles in Videora, and that shows it as a 4:3 letterbox on my TiVo. I wonder why it works for me and not for you?

Thanks for the tips on how to convert a 2.35:1 to letterbox!


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## HDTiVo

MickeS said:


> I still don't understand what is different between my Videora and you guys's's's's's...
> 
> When I have a HDTV 16:9 rip and convert it to tivo format, I just choose one of the the predefined 720*480 16:9 profiles in Videora, and that shows it as a 4:3 letterbox on my TiVo. I wonder why it works for me and not for you?
> 
> Thanks for the tips on how to convert a 2.35:1 to letterbox!


Maybe they don't know to use the -aspect 16:9 setting when converting,
or that the TiVo now has a TV aspect ratio setting under Msgs&Settings>Settings>Video>TV Aspect Ratio


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## DevdogAZ

HDTiVo said:


> Maybe they don't know to use the -aspect 16:9 setting when converting,
> or that the TiVo now has a TV aspect ratio setting under Msgs&Settings>Settings>Video>TV Aspect Ratio


Believe me, I tried everything. If I used the predefined 4:3 settings in Videora, the programs were stretched vertically, making everything tall and skinny. If I used the predefined 16:9 settings in Videora, the program would show up with every other line shifted to opposite sides of the screen. If I then changed the aspect ratio setting of the TiVo to 16:9, it would play the files converted using the 16:9 specs, but they would look the same as if I had converted using 4:3 (tall and skinny). All of the various options that I tried played fine on the computer, even when they wouldn't play on the TiVo. This fix that rniely came up with is the only thing that worked and it's been great.

Thanks again!!


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## HDTiVo

devdogaz said:


> Believe me, I tried everything. If I used the predefined 4:3 settings in Videora, the programs were stretched vertically, making everything tall and skinny. If I used the predefined 16:9 settings in Videora, the program would show up with every other line shifted to opposite sides of the screen. If I then changed the aspect ratio setting of the TiVo to 16:9, it would play the files converted using the 16:9 specs, but they would look the same as if I had converted using 4:3 (tall and skinny). All of the various options that I tried played fine on the computer, even when they wouldn't play on the TiVo. This fix that rniely came up with is the only thing that worked and it's been great.
> 
> Thanks again!!


It sounds like you have the TiVo model with the bug that doesn't handle 16:9 properly. There was a thread discussing this shortly after TiVoCome came out. Maybe it was never fixed (or could not be) by a software update.

Most TiVo owners should not get the impression it is necessary to do what you are doing to get around such a bug.


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## DevdogAZ

HDTiVo said:


> It sounds like you have the TiVo model with the bug that doesn't handle 16:9 properly. There was a thread discussing this shortly after TiVoCome came out. Maybe it was never fixed (or could not be) by a software update.


Could be. My Series 2 is a Model 540 so if that's the one with the bug, that would explain a lot. Anyway, it works fine now.


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## gonzotek

devdogaz said:


> Could be. My Series 2 is a Model 540 so if that's the one with the bug, that would explain a lot. Anyway, it works fine now.


That's probably it. Justin Thyme made a table up that shows what you have to do different for different models of TiVo.


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## Aflat

Yup, that was my problem too, no matter what setting I had it on, everything was always stretched, and this was the best solution for me as well. 

gonzotek do you have a link to that table from Justin?


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## mfrns0123

Thank you rneily, Your solution worked for me too!


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## gonzotek

Aflat said:


> Yup, that was my problem too, no matter what setting I had it on, everything was always stretched, and this was the best solution for me as well.
> 
> gonzotek do you have a link to that table from Justin?


Yes, I meant to link it in my last post, but didn't find it immediately and got distracted 
16x9 display behavior table



Justin Thyme said:


> It looks like if you run into the problem with 16:9 mpegs, you only have to do a reencoding if you have a 4x3 set that doesn't have a 16X9 compatible mode. In all other situations, worst case is you patch the first header in the mpeg and you are done in seconds.
> 
> Table attached indicates what remedy to use in which situation. (second to last column: F= Fix required. U=Tivo setting change needed, X= no tivo problem.)
> 
> Lucky ones are the 240 owners- it seems to handle all configurations with 16:9 megs just dandy.
> 
> (Technical FYI- the "aspect" ratio indicated in the Mpeg header is the pixel aspect ratio, not the data frame aspect ratio. My amature understanding is that there is no relationship between this settting and the horizontal or vertical number of lines.)


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## MickeS

Ah, that would explain it! I have a 230-series TiVo by the way, seems to work the same as the 240 models.


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## Justin Thyme

Nice to see that table is getting some use. Sorry I have been distracted of late and not been able to monitor the site as much. (Very close to due date of our twins and all that...)


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## MickeS

Twins? I guess you won't be around here much the next oh, 3-5 years or so then?


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## Aflat

More twins! My wife is due in May with twins, and I have some friends who are due in April, oddly enough they convieved in our house. Twins twins everywhere!


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## Justin Thyme

MickeS said:


> Twins? I guess you won't be around here much the next oh, 3-5 years or so then?


I will post when I can but yeah- I am back to lurk mode. You won't see any 6 posts a day, which I suppose many will be thankful for.


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## imbored

when i put that command line into videora and tried to convert a file...videora spent one sec to compltete the coversion, and it rly didnt convert.


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## miadlor

imbored said:


> when i put that command line into videora and tried to convert a file...videora spent one sec to compltete the coversion, and it rly didnt convert.


I was getting the same error..........

Found out if you use the generator, you have to make sure you make the last numbers alike.......ex:

if it comes up 63,64..........you have to make sure you enter 64,64 and -1 off the other end so it still equals 480.
I'm trying one now.


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## imbored

i do not think that i was doing that....i belive that i did do 64,64. I just copied it directly from this thread and put it in and did the same thing.


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## miadlor

You also have to use the "Transcode New Video" button and select the new coding you just created.


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## Parkmad

Ok, I am making some progress, but not successful yet.

At first, I wasn't getting letterboxing at all due to my assumptions about saving profiles in Videora, but I resolved that.

Now, I have a file with resolution 640X368 and I used the aspect ratio tool to calculate the padding and came up with 84,85. I used 84 for both because videora likes even numbers, but the converted file is now squished in the horizontal direction. It's not displaying in wide screen.

Can anyone check my resolution and see what you get for padding?

Thanks


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## Parkmad

Sorry to double post.

I've played with the settings and have found something that looks correct.

I do have another question though and it may be dumber than the last. Does the converted file display widescreen on the TV or does the converted file only display a "standard" image with letterboxing and correct aspect ratio? My file is only displaying a standard image with parts of the image on the left and right cut off. The converted file on my computer shows in widescreen but after transferring to my Tivo, it's cut off like a normal "edited for television" image.


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## miadlor

The picture should look the same as if you were watching a DVD.
If your TV is Standard, it will have the letterbox(top and Bottom only)


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## Parkmad

Thanks for assisting.

Depends on what you mean by "looks the same as if watching a DVD". I have letterbox top and bottom only, and I have a standard TV.

The widescreen content on the left and right is not shown. Meaning, when I view the downloaded .avi file and the converted mpeg on my computer, I can see the full image left to right, but after transferring to the Tivo, it looks like a standard image recorded from the TV but with letterboxing.

Rephrased: When I compare a downloaded HD 16:9 TV show that I have converted and transferred, it looks the same as a standard 4:3 recording from cable but with letterboxing on the top and bottom.


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## miadlor

What was the exact settings you used " for "?


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## Parkmad

Here's the line I used in the Custom FF MPEG Flags:

-s 720x352 -padtop 64 -padbottom 64

Aspect Ratio: 4:3

Everything else was at default.

I initially tried the numbers the calculator gave me based on my resolution of 640X368 and that looked smashed in the vertical direction.


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## miadlor

Check your email.


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## Parkmad

I have had no luck.

I have tried padding of 32, 48, 64, and 84. 48 and 64 look Ok and 32 and 84 are smushed and stretched.

I have also tried the method at this site.

http://www.adverserealms.com/tivo/tivo.html

It created a file with the correct aspect ratio, but the video was cropped on the left and right, no widescreen, same as Videora.

Maybe it has something to do with my TV. I can create a file that has the correct aspect ratio, but no widescreen everytime.


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## DevdogAZ

Parkmad said:


> I have had no luck.
> 
> I have tried padding of 32, 48, 64, and 84. 48 and 64 look Ok and 32 and 84 are smushed and stretched.
> 
> I have also tried the method at this site.
> 
> http://www.adverserealms.com/tivo/tivo.html
> 
> It created a file with the correct aspect ratio, but the video was cropped on the left and right, no widescreen, same as Videora.
> 
> Maybe it has something to do with my TV. I can create a file that has the correct aspect ratio, but no widescreen everytime.


The script you posted is the same one that works for me so I don't know what the problem is. Supposedly there are some TiVo models that require different settings. What model is your TiVo? Many people don't have to use that script at all and Videora just works fine for them on the standard 16:9 setting. I have a model 540 TiVo which required the extra instructions. Have you tried a normal 16:9 Videora conversion without the extra script? Have you checked the aspect ratio settings of the TiVo (in the TiVo menus)? Have you found Justin Thyme's table referred to earlier in this thread which might give you more insight concerning your specific model?


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## Parkmad

I have a 540 model Tivo and have tried a direct 16:9 conversion without the additional script. The direct conversion creates a stretched image. 

For every file, I have tried each setting for aspect ratio in the Tivo, 4:3 and 16:9. It has no effect.

I have looked at Justin's table, but for I don't have any settings for the TV for a 16:9 compatible mode.


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## miadlor

To be sure..........

1. Set your TiVo box to 4:3
2. Use the converter I sent you.
3. In Videora......"Profiles"....."New Profile"....Name it "Tivo".
4. Aspect Ratio box.....4:3
5. Paste setting from the converter I sent you.
6. Apply.
7. Go to "Convert"......."Transcode new video".
8. Select the "Quality Profile" , "TiVo"........then "Apply".


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## Parkmad

That's the method I followed.

At first I thought the conversion wasn't shrinking the picture horizontally, but I tried an experiment. I used the orginal .avi file that I downloaded and burned a copy to a DVD with Sonic. When I played that on my TV, the problem was still there. So it's not an issue with Videora. Again, the DVD played a widescreen image on my computer.

For some reason, my TV (Sony Wega 36" KV-36HS500) is not presenting in widescreen, but there are no settings that I can see for the TV to adjust.

I did compare a store bought DVD on my computer and the TV. The horizontal image shows slightly less on the TV than the computer, but not as much as the downloaded program.

Well, I think I just eliminated the need to be in this thread.


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## BTUx9

I've never used videora, but I've been responsible for the aspect ratio code in tivoserver, which does much the same thing, and here are a few of the things I've discovered along the way (though my journey is far from over)

1) padtop, padbottom and height must all be even and add up to <= 480

2) if they add up to <480, the width and height will be scaled proportionally to bring the height to 480... this allows you to just pad, not scale in many/most circumstances, which is not only faster, but also decreases filesize

3) the 16:9 AR flag only seems to be honored on streams that have a height of exactly 480 (at least that appears to be what's happening)

4) some streams just don't scale right... they MAY work if you scale the height to 478 instead of 480 (YMMV)


for the person with less showing on TV than on computer: most TVs are aligned to have some of the picture lost on all 4 sides (overscan)


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## bugmenot

I'm still confused as I'm not very technical. I understood everything until entering the tags. Haha. I have a file that is 704x320 and the frame rate is 25.000000. The same rate or something is 44200 Hz and the bitrate is 205 kb/s. It's in AvI format. When I used the normal widescreen format that comes with the Videora program, a bunch of lines appeared through the screen. I tried understanding the OP but did not get it.

I own a 27" inch 4:3 TV. Any pros want to help a noob?


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## bugmenot

Yeah, miadlor, It's still nor working... 

I sent you an email...


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## garylapointe

I'm transcoding as we speak. Lets see if this works for me.

I'd love to have this automatically run (i.e. monitor a folder for me) and then push it to my TiVo folder (I see how I can fake this last part by just tellin it to use the TiVo folder as the dest). I see if it does if I use Videora to do my downloads (which I don't use). Any other thoughts? (Heck I'd even pay videora the $30 to monitor my folder IF it'd run different profiles on different folders).

Gary

Humax DVD-R 250 GB


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## garylapointe

rneily said:


> For my media which is 512x272, I have found that it correctly displays on my tivo assing the Custom FFmpeg flag: "-s 720x352 -padtop 64 -padbottom 64" (without quotations of course)
> 
> I am pretty sure that padding 64 is correct for displaying 1.88 Widescreen on 4:3 with 720x480, but someone might want to check my math... I've allready had a few cold ones!


I see that 512x272 is 1.88 but 720x352 is 2.05 ratio...
Which makes it 48 at the top/bottom (not 64). Doesn't it?

Just trying to get a better grip on this.

It sure seems line Videora could calc this itself (or have different settings for different ratios. That'd be the way to do it... If 1.8-1.9 add 48 top/bot, if > add 64, if 1.65-1.8 use 32...

Gary


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## BTUx9

To keep a 1.88 AR, you'd want your height to be 340 with padding of 70 on top and bottom. Additionally, there's no need to scale up the horizontal since the tivo scales it to the width of the screen anyway.

Actually, given the way the tivo scales, the most efficient way is to not have ffmpeg scale at all, just use padding to bring the frame up to a 4:3 AR... in this case it would be 512x384, which means you'd leave it at 512x272 with padding of 56 on top and bottom.

Make any sense?


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## garylapointe

What about the multiple of 16 rule? I saw someone mention it here earlier (the original poster) and I think I've seen that before, is that anything real? (I've had better results since I've "obeyed it" but it might just be because I'm not goofing up any calculations now).

(Why doesn't Videora pad automatically? It seems pretty straightforward to add to the software to me... I mean who would want to stretch a letterboxed image to distort it. An option to automatically pad top/bot/left/right seems like it just makes sense...

Gary


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## BTUx9

I really don't know anything about multiple of 16... of course, since the tivo is scaling internally, I don't really think it matters.

As far as automatically padding, it's not that straightforward, especially when you throw tivo's with 16:9 output into the mix, and it makes a larger file, which is unnecessary if you're using a software player on a pc.


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## garylapointe

BTUx9 said:


> As far as automatically padding, it's not that straightforward, especially when you throw tivo's with 16:9 output into the mix, .... , which is unnecessary if you're using a software player on a pc.


I was JUST thinking about this. And decided to switch my take a little (but since the Videora software is to convert for TiVos it should handle it better) -- Since a PC can handle a weird size and a TiVo is a customized PC to pretty much only handle video, it seems like it should be able to enlarge the video and scale it better...

Although it's likely Videora will support such a modification before TiVo actually would...

Gary


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## mitch2k2

imbored said:


> when i put that command line into videora and tried to convert a file...videora spent one sec to compltete the coversion, and it rly didnt convert.


Does anyone know how to address this error? I get the same when I try to use a customized profile....

EDIT: Scratch that. the first hyphen before the s had been omitted. That was the error.

EDIT2: I do have a question about the javascript conversion though:


rneily said:


> I have been looking for a way to check my math, and I've found this website:
> 
> http://www.haku.co.uk/ARCT.html
> 
> Basically, at the top, you can input the resolution of the file you want to convert, and then the Tivo horizontal resolution will usually be 720. Click calculate and it should give you the proper width and height of the new video in 4:3.
> 
> You can use that vertical number and subtract from the 480 and divide by 2 to get the size of the letterbox bars at the top and bottom of the new video.


Which Source setting would you choose if the original file was an AVI? Would it be PC 1:1?


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## jgbrown54

I read this thread with interrest and started thinking about doing the same thing using AviSynth instead of the FFMpeg command line. I had already had a problem converting .WMV files with Videora and I could never get the AviSynth to work.

What I found was that even though I had the latest version of Videora that came with AviSynth, it had an old version FFMpeg that didn't support AviSynth script files.

Once I replaced the FFMpeg file, I got the AviSynth to work and I now have a script file that will automatically add the proper size borders for any given input file if needed. So, here are the steps you need.

To enable Videora to automatically add borders to any video file and convert it to a TiVo compatible format, first download the following file.

(sorry. they won't let me use hyperlinks until i've posted 5 times. enter *instipics*dot*com*slash*borders*dot*zip* in the address bar on your browser.)

1. Extract the ffmpeg.exe to the VideoraTivoConverter Apps folder (C:\Program Files\VideoraTiVoConverter\apps).

2. Rename the existing ffmpeg_mp2.exe file to ffmpeg_mp2.old and rename the new ffmpeg.exe to ffmpeg_mp2.exe. If you have any problems, you can simply delete the new file and rename the old one to get back to where you are now.

3. Extract the 2 files DirectShow With Borders.avs and Avi With Borders.avs to the C:\Program Files\VideoraTiVoConverter\avs folder.

4. Open Videora Tivo Converter and go into Setup to the Profiles Tab.

5. Select an Existing Quality Profile such as MPEG-2/720x480/4:3/2Mbps Stereo/128kbps.

6. Select New Profile and give it a new Profile Name such as DirectShow With Borders.

7. Make sure the Aspect Ratio is set to 4:3.

8. Click the Browse button next to the AVS Script line and browse to the C:\Program Files\VideoraTiVoConverter\avs folder. Select the DirectShow With Borders.avs script file and select Open. This will populate the AVS Script box.

9. Click on the Apply button to save the profile.

10. Repeat steps 5 through 9 for the Avi With Borders.avs script file except use a different Profile Name.

You now have 2 new profiles that will automatically add any required borders. The Avi profile can be used with any file supported by ffmpeg and will use codecs available to it. The DirectShow profile can read any file supported by DirectShow, including DVDs and WMV files. It will use any filters and codecs loaded for DirectShow.

Note that updating to the new version of ffmpeg will also fix the problem that a lot of people are having with the conversions completing in about 2 seconds with no file created except an AVS file in the folder where the original file was located.


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## lappylaz

Here's what I've figured out. (BTW I have 2 Humax DVD models, and both tvs are 16:9) 

1. Use DVDShrink to get a single VOB (I only reauthor with 5.1 DTS)

2. Rename the file to .MPG

3. Use DVDPatcher to patch the header of the Entire file to 4:3

Everything looks great to me but I found if I did not patch it to 4:3 I would get interlacing/every other lines. I could just patch the header, but I found that it would become interlacing/every other line after pausing and returning. Both my Tivo and my tv are in 16:9 mode. The picture does not look distorted to me in any way. If someone can explain why this works, I'd be interested. What I like about this method is that it is VERY easy, to patch, rename and burn back to DVD if need be, the storage is about 4gigs per movie but space is getting cheap.


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## miadlor

jgbrown54........The link is bad



works now!


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## jgbrown54

Sorry. I didn't realize the link is case sensitive. It should now be all lower case.

Let me know if it works ok for you. No one has used it so far but me.


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## Chester_Lampwick

garylapointe said:


> I see that 512x272 is 1.88 but 720x352 is 2.05 ratio...
> Which makes it 48 at the top/bottom (not 64). Doesn't it?
> 
> Just trying to get a better grip on this.
> 
> It sure seems line Videora could calc this itself (or have different settings for different ratios. That'd be the way to do it... If 1.8-1.9 add 48 top/bot, if > add 64, if 1.65-1.8 use 32...
> 
> Gary


Okay, I've done some math myself.
Disregrard the resolution and use some hypothetical numbers here:

4:3 = 1600 x 1200
16:9 = 1600 x 900

Notice these have the same width, ie they fit the entire width of the same TV or monitor.

The verticals when compared 900:1200 or 75% of the lines are used in the letterbox mode. Therefore 480x75%=360 lines. You'd need to pad the top and bottom by 60 not 64.

I've not tried these settings yet. Anyone want to give it a go?

See ya,
Roger


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## alansplace

Chester_Lampwick said:


> Okay, I've done some math myself.
> Disregrard the resolution and use some hypothetical numbers here:
> 
> 4:3 = 1600 x 1200
> 16:9 = 1600 x 900
> 
> Notice these have the same width, ie they fit the entire width of the same TV or monitor.
> 
> The verticals when compared 900:1200 or 75% of the lines are used in the letterbox mode. Therefore 480x75%=360 lines. You'd need to pad the top and bottom by 60 not 64.
> 
> I've not tried these settings yet. Anyone want to give it a go?
> 
> See ya,
> Roger


i've nothing to convert right now but i put your figures in my text file that concerns this and will try them the next time i have a file that needs converting.
--
Alan


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## Chester_Lampwick

alansplace said:


> i've nothing to convert right now but i put your figures in my text file that concerns this and will try them the next time i have a file that needs converting.
> --
> Alan


I know 352x720 sounds more like a standard resolution but mathematically I think converting 480 lines to 360 would be better. For instance, you could discar every 4th line. Turning 4 lines into 3 sounds way easier 4 into 2.93


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## treaty

doh! 
jgbrown54, I wanna try the method you mention above but you've removed that borders.zip file from your server - can you put it back?


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## Tegan

I'm with treaty. I'd like to try jgbrown54's solution as well. Anyone got that zip file still?


Or, barring that, a really good explanation of how to do the math? I have a video in 544x576 16:9 aspect ratio that just didn't work on the various settings I tried. I've also got a 512x368 1.39:1 aspect ratio video that gives me headaches to just think about it.

The 720x576 16:9 video worked excellent, but that's the only one that I managed so far!


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## gonzotek

I've got it around somewhere, I'll try to find it and get it posted if jgbrown54 doesn't pop up with it soon.


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## dougntz

Hi - 
I know this thread has been active for a while but I just wanted to thank everyone for providing such good information. Last night, I finally got the letterboxes to appear properly on my 4:3 display TV. Yes!! :up: I will post my findings just in case it might help someone else.

The original video was either 704x400 or 624x352. (Originally, I thought they were all the same but later realize some videos were different.) The file properties also tell me the following:

resolution: 704x400 (or 624x352)
video bit rate: 23 fps
video data rate: 140 kbps

Initially, using some of the default settings for 4:3 yielded viewable results, the perspective was out of wack. As suggested, I created a new quality profile. Here are the settings:

*Mode:* MPEG-2 > CBR
*Resolution:* 720x480
*Passes:* Two
*Bitrate:* 8192 kbps
*Framerate:* 23.98 fps
*Aspect Ratio:* 4:3
*Custom FFMPEG Flags:* -s 720x288 -padtop 96 -padbottom 96

The two main things that I had to tweak were the Framerate and the FFMPEG Flags. I knew that the Flags would take some time to get the perspective correct. The Framerate stumped me for a while. That required checking out the logs on the console. After a little trial and error, I realized that the framrate was not 23 fps but 23.98 fps. Well, at least Videora thought it was 23.98 and Videora is the only opinion that matters.

My remaining problem is this - Video quality, both viewed on the PC and the TV. I thought it might clean up as I got the padding/letterboxes fixed. However, the resulting, transcoded file is playable and viewable but it's just very blocky and grainy. It does not appear to be artifact from the conversion but more like a generally lower resolution. I know, with the scaling there should logically be some loss of quality. The thing is, I saw a few postings with people stating there results were comparable to a TiVo recorded video at the Medium Quality Setting.

So any suggestions on increasing the quality of the video?

Thanks,
doug


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## gonzotek

Tegan said:


> I'm with treaty. I'd like to try jgbrown54's solution as well. Anyone got that zip file still?
> 
> Or, barring that, a really good explanation of how to do the math? I have a video in 544x576 16:9 aspect ratio that just didn't work on the various settings I tried. I've also got a 512x368 1.39:1 aspect ratio video that gives me headaches to just think about it.
> 
> The 720x576 16:9 video worked excellent, but that's the only one that I managed so far!


As promised, here's the file:
borders.zip
In case I have to remove the file or it becomes unavailable again for any reason, here's the text of the two avisynth scripts it contains. Binaries of FFMPEG(also in the zip file) can be found in various places online, so that isn't a problem.

Avi with borders.avs:


> ClipIn = AviSource("<%inputfile%>")
> SourceWidth = Width(ClipIn)
> SourceHeight = Height(ClipIn)
> Border = (SourceWidth / 1.5) - SourceHeight
> TopBorder = Floor(Border / 2)
> TopBorder = (TopBorder > 0) ? TopBorder : 0
> BottomBorder = Ceil(Border / 2)
> BottomBorder = (BottomBorder > 0) ? BottomBorder : 0
> AddBorders(ClipIn, 0, TopBorder, 0, BottomBorder)
> return last


Directshow with borders.avs:


> ClipIn = DirectShowSource("<%inputfile%>")
> SourceWidth = Width(ClipIn)
> SourceHeight = Height(ClipIn)
> Border = (SourceWidth / 1.5) - SourceHeight
> TopBorder = Floor(Border / 2)
> TopBorder = (TopBorder > 0) ? TopBorder : 0
> BottomBorder = Ceil(Border / 2)
> BottomBorder = (BottomBorder > 0) ? BottomBorder : 0
> AddBorders(ClipIn, 0, TopBorder, 0, BottomBorder)
> return last


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## Tegan

gonzotek said:


> As promised, here's the file:
> borders.zip


Thanks Gonzotek! You're a lifesaver. Gonna play around with it and see if it converts my odd videos correctly. This entire thread has made my TiVo even more useful to me.


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## Jeff R

I've downloaded the borders.zip and followed the instructions, but I am not getting any output file. If I turn on the debugging, I get an error from ffmpeg about the resampling context. 

It sounds like people might have encountered this problem before -- what was the solution? I can use the manual solution with the -pad options, but it would be nice to have videora do this without me remembering which movies are 16:9 and which are 4:3.

Jeff


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## jgbrown54

Sorry. I put the link back up to the zip file. It is at http://instipics.com/Borders.zip.


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## Jeff R

jgbrown54 said:


> Sorry. I put the link back up to the zip file. It is at http://instipics.net/Borders.zip.


Two problems:
The link should be for http://instipics.com/Borders.zip

And second,
this is a cygwin compiled binary (I think?) so anyone who doesn't have cygwin installed will be unable to run it. Will any current version of ffmpeg substitute?


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## jgbrown54

I have tried it with several versions. They seem to work. AVS has to be enabled on the build. The only one that doesn't, is the one that comes with Videora.

(Sorry about the link. I have 2 servers, .com and .net. I posted the wrong one.)

Yes. The link should be http://instipics.com/Borders.zip.


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## Jeff R

Hmm, I just can't get this to work. Part of the problem is that the latest version of ffmpeg (that I'm using) has changed the commandline a bit, so the Videora selected bitrate doesn't work. (bitrate must be entered with a 'K' to signify kbps). I can't use the version in your zipfile because I don't have cygwin installed.

I did try to make this work from gui4ffmpeg, and at least got output but it was garbled and useless. So... maybe I'll look around for an older (but avisynth enabled) ffmpeg or just keep doing it manually.

Jeff


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## dlfl

Jeff R said:


> Hmm, I just can't get this to work. Part of the problem is that the latest version of ffmpeg (that I'm using) has changed the commandline a bit, so the Videora selected bitrate doesn't work. (bitrate must be entered with a 'K' to signify kbps). I can't use the version in your zipfile because I don't have cygwin installed.
> 
> I did try to make this work from gui4ffmpeg, and at least got output but it was garbled and useless. So... maybe I'll look around for an older (but avisynth enabled) ffmpeg or just keep doing it manually.
> 
> Jeff


I have the version of ffmpeg.exe that came with the previous version (2.0) of gui4ffmpeg (i.e., it doesn't need the 'k' in the bitrate argument). If you're interested in that version, PM me and we'll figure out how to get it to you.


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## weymo

Okay, I'm trying JGBrown54's method because my new SDTV incorrectly stretches 16:9 content...which really ticks me off (Circuit City specials...argh.) I've followed all the steps and have tried to install cygwin but I'm getting the error during Videora recoding of a 16:9 .vob file:

ffmpeg_mp2.exe - Unable To Locate Component
This application has failed to start because cygwin1.dll was not found. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.

The first time I installed cygwin I took all the defaults. Got the error.
Then I installed it in the same folder as ffmpeg_mp2. Got the error.
Did a search on the whole hdd including system and hidden and this file is not found.

Is a certain version of cygwin required?

I also notice that cygwin (which I've never used) doesn't appear to use Windows installer so it doesn't appear in Add/Remove Programs. I've had to just delete the folder to remove it.

-- Update --
Okay, obviously the first hit I got off Google must have been a bad bake of cygwin. 
At 
http://cygwin.com/packages/ 
there are dozens of builds. Which one is the desired package?

-- Update Update --
All the .dll's are in the same folder with ffmpeg now and I'm not getting an error...but I am now getting the 2 second convert and dump with no file.


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## jgbrown54

I admit that I am not famililar with ffmpeg. I guess I got lucky in getting it to work.

The ffmpeg that I used was the one that came with SUPER video converter, which is a great converter and free, so I would assume that if you load SUPER everything would be set up right.


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## Mikeyis4dcats

I have problems fixing torrent files, can anyone tell me how to verify the actual resolution of my video file?


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## weymo

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> I have problems fixing torrent files, can anyone tell me how to verify the actual resolution of my video file?


DVDpatcher is really a great small tool for getting this info off of just about any mpeg.


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## taronga

dougntz said:


> *Custom FFMPEG Flags:* -s 720x288 -padtop 96 -padbottom 96


I've been searching for a solution to videos in 2.35, and this finally worked. Thanks.

This site: http://www.haku.co.uk/ARCT.html was mentioned earlier in the thread. Can anyone explain how to use it? I can get as far as inputting the resolution but from there I'm lost.


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## Sicklybutsexy

I was previously able to watch my 16:9 encoded movies on my crappy 4:3 TV. But all of the sudden it doesn't work, I get audio but only a black screen. I've tried messing with the aspect ratio on the TV but nothing seems to work. What happend? Anyone know?


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## greg_burns

Sicklybutsexy said:


> I was previously able to watch my 16:9 encoded movies on my crappy 4:3 TV. But all of the sudden it doesn't work, I get audio but only a black screen. I've tried messing with the aspect ratio on the TV but nothing seems to work. What happend? Anyone know?


9.1 bug

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5699302#post5699302


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## jpaul34

taronga said:


> I've been searching for a solution to videos in 2.35, and this finally worked. Thanks.
> 
> This site: http://www.haku.co.uk/ARCT.html was mentioned earlier in the thread. Can anyone explain how to use it? I can get as far as inputting the resolution but from there I'm lost.


Just getting into using Videora. It works great for videos with native 4:3 and 16:9 formats, but it's a little tricky outside of that. I have a 16:9 HD monitor, and am trying to convert a 660 x 260 movie (2.54:1) so that it will fill the entire width with black bars on the top and bottom.

I used "-s 720x280 -padtop 100 -padbottom 100" and encoded at 16:9 but I ended up with an image that is 21.5" W x 9.5" H (2.26:1) with black bars on all four sides. The aspect ratio looks pretty good, but I'm wasting space on the right and left sides. I tried switching my monitor input from 1080i to 720p but that had no affect.

Does anyone know how to make the picture bigger? I'm watching this on a TiVo HD.


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## taronga

Here's the settings I use for my 4:3 TV.

16:9 -> 4:3
-s 720x352 -padtop 64 -padbottom 64

2.35:1 -> 4:3
-s 720x288 -padtop 96 -padbottom 96


I also have some weird 1.57:1 files for which I used:

-s 720x416 -padtop 32 -padbottom 32


The key is to keep the padding in multiples of 32.


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## jpaul34

taronga said:


> 2.35:1 -> 4:3
> -s 720x288 -padtop 96 -padbottom 96


I tried that line and it gave me the same result on my 16:9 TV - black bars on all four sides. I'm trying to find the right setting so that a 2.35 movie takes up the entire width of the screen with black bars on the top and the bottom, same as a DVD.


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## taronga

jpaul34 said:


> I tried that line and it gave me the same result on my 16:9 TV - black bars on all four sides. I'm trying to find the right setting so that a 2.35 movie takes up the entire width of the screen with black bars on the top and the bottom, same as a DVD.


Try this.

-s 720x288 -padtop 32 -padbottom 32


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## pjhartman

jpaul34 said:


> I used "-s 720x280 -padtop 100 -padbottom 100" and encoded at 16:9 but I ended up with an image that is 21.5" W x 9.5" H (2.26:1) with black bars on all four sides. The aspect ratio looks pretty good, but I'm wasting space on the right and left sides. I tried switching my monitor input from 1080i to 720p but that had no affect.
> 
> Does anyone know how to make the picture bigger? I'm watching this on a TiVo HD.


Use the Aspect button on your TiVo Remote to go from Panel to Zoom mode.


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## jpaul34

pjhartman said:


> Use the Aspect button on your TiVo Remote to go from Panel to Zoom mode.


That worked like a charm. Thanks. I didn't know that the TiVo remote had that functionality.


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## dwit

Just looking for a guide on how to use Videora. Couldn't find much on their site or forum.

Can someone point me to a guide please?

Thank you in advance.


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## Merlin R

Thanks for this great tip. It also works in VisualHub on the Mac. Go into the advanced settings, and type the string under: "Extra ffmpeg Flags". I played with the settings to get the ones that I needed, eventually settling on: 
"-s 640x360 -padtop 60 -padbottom 60". The original post indicated that the numbers might need to be divisible by 16, however, that hasn't seemed to matter.

Again, thanks!


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## taronga

I have a 16:9 TV now, so here's the new settings I'm using.

2.35 -> 16:9
-s 720x352 -padtop 64 -padbottom 64

1.57 or 16:10 -ish -> 16:9
-s 636x480 -padleft 42 -padright 42


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