# 20.4.7 release change log



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Member @ajwees41 found this link with the tivo 20.4.7 release notes.

http://tivoproduction.force.com/Sup...rticles/FAQ/TiVo-Software-Version-Information



> What's new in version 20.4.7
> 
> Software version 20.4.7 introduces the following features:
> 
> ...


----------



## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks for posting. Many will be thrilled to have Plex.


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

On my updated Premiere (s), No Vudu, No Plex, and the partial transfers error is still happening.

other than that.....

edit 1 of the 3 partial transfers did complete.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

The apps never show up right away. There will be a switch on the headend to enable the apps. Plex you may not see until everyone has been updated.

I just don't think tivo can limit deployment of Opera apps to only the boxes that have been updated... So I expect you won't see it until the entire update has been deployed.


----------



## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

Well, that's what I needed to sign up. Threw my Roamio and Minis up on the priority list last night.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Is Plex definitely going to be buried in that godawful Opera waste-of-space?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> Is Plex definitely going to be buried in that godawful Opera waste-of-space?


Yes...

Opera has two app options on TiVo.

- My Opera TV Store Apps
- Opera TV Store

You will be able to add Plex to your apps and just use the first option. It still takes an obnoxiously long time to load - but at least you don't have to look for it.

I suggest Plex will never be a top level app because of its individualized content nature. I would really like TiVo to modernize the transfer protocols and screens for offline content.

No reason why I can't access content from my computer exactly the same way I access content from another modern TiVo.


----------



## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

Glad to see Plex.

Sent via Tapatalk for Windows Phone


----------



## EmilGH (Sep 24, 2010)

gamo62 said:


> Glad to see Plex.


Where'd you find Plex? I cannot find it in the Opera store... or anywhere else.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I suspect you won't see it until TiVo has completed this release cycle.


----------



## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

Opera store is available on mini but release notes only list premiere and roamio for plex. Anyone have thoughts on mini availability?


----------



## Bryan Lyle (Feb 6, 2002)

According to @tivosupport, PLEX should appear within about 24 hours of installing the new software.

I'm not sure when 20.4.7 was installed on my Roamio Plus, but so far, no PLEX.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

confinoj said:


> Opera store is available on mini but release notes only list premiere and roamio for plex. Anyone have thoughts on mini availability?


That is a great question... I am betting the Mini is considered a Roamio series device, but good catch.

If this is an Opera level app, I don't believe they can limit it from the store based on unit.

If this is a Top level app - they can deploy it independently. I suspect it is an Opera level app...


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Why would the TiVo Mini be "considered a Roamio series device"?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> Why would the TiVo Mini be "considered a Roamio series device"?


I don't know, I just always considered the Mini a Series 5 model - Maybe that is wrong headed of me.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It does use the companion chipset to the chipset in the Roamio and not the one in the Premiere. Also all the apps that were released for the Roamio were simultaneously released for the Mini. (Amazon, Vudu, etc..)


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Bryan Lyle said:


> According to @tivosupport, PLEX should appear within about 24 hours of installing the new software.
> 
> I'm not sure when 20.4.7 was installed on my Roamio Plus, but so far, no PLEX.


Definitely more than 24 hours, I've had the new release since Friday and no Plex. I don't think it's been released for all yet.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I don't know, I just always considered the Mini a Series 5 model - Maybe that is wrong headed of me.


Well, it was released more than a year before the Roamio.


----------



## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> It does use the companion chipset to the chipset in the Roamio and not the one in the Premiere. Also all the apps that were released for the Roamio were simultaneously released for the Mini. (Amazon, Vudu, etc..)


I don't see any technical reason why it should't work on the mini. Hardware is fully capable and local storage should not be needed for a plex client.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Me neither. I'm guessing it's just an oversight in the release notes to not list the Mini.


----------



## EmilGH (Sep 24, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> Definitely more than 24 hours, I've had the new release since Friday and no Plex. I don't think it's been released for all yet.


Same here&#8230; well over 24 hours and no sign of the Plex App.

Do we know if this'll be in the Opera Store or in the Now Playing list -- or whatever they're calling it these days&#8230;


----------



## swong_88 (Aug 12, 2014)

I am kind of excited about the Plex App being added.. Does this mean that the Tivo will not be able to play files from my local computer?? I use the Plex app all of the time on my Roku. Will it show up on the Find Movies area like Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime? Someone in a previous post had mentioned it would show up in Opera House area? I was confused by that..


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> Well, it was released more than a year before the Roamio.


Yes, but it use the Roamio chipset - not the Premiere chipset.

You could say the mini was the first S5 model available.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradleys said:


> Yes, but it use the Roamio chipset - not the Premiere chipset. You could say the mini was the first S5 model available.


Not true. Look in the "System Info" screen on a mini and it lists it as a "Series 4" TiVo.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Interesting... I wonder if the V2 model is the same or if it has been updated to S5?

Okay, I recant my previous statement and say it is included in the release notes as a series 4 TiVo (possibly series 5 for V2)

Point is - I would be highly surprised if Plex were not included on the mini.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The Mini's CPU was released 2 years prior to the Roamio's so I don't think I'd call them companions or shared chipsets.

But they're all from Broadcom and obviously share a lot of the same DNA.

Based on performance the Mini is right in the middle. The Premiere is rated for 1100 dmips, Mini is 2000 dmips, and Roamio is 3000 dmips, which seems pretty much inline with the experience.

The Roamio's chip has an extra 2000 dmips co-processor on die (5K total dmips), but I don't think they're going to wield it.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I can report one additional change provided in 20.4.7. Pushing files to the tivo with correct programId as part of the description now result in full metadata on the tivo along with grouping and correct season/episode numbering for sorts.

It has never before been possible to reliably group pushes with pulls and recordings.

Tivo had previously mentioned that this would be included in this release, wonder why its not mentioned in the release notes.


----------



## EmilGH (Sep 24, 2010)

swong_88 said:


> Someone in a previous post had mentioned it would show up in Opera House area?


In chatting with @tivosupport last night, I was told that the Plex app will be in the Opera Store and is not yet available...and are shooting for "within the week" to have it available.


----------



## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

bradleys said:


> Interesting... I wonder if the V2 model is the same or if it has been updated to S5?


V2 Mini is Series4.


----------



## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

EmilGH said:


> In chatting with @tivosupport last night, I was told that the Plex app will be in the Opera Store and is not yet available...and are shooting for "within the week" to have it available.


So where do Opera Apps get placed in the Tivo interface?


----------



## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

spaldingclan said:


> So where do Opera Apps get placed in the Tivo interface?


Within "My Opera TV Store Apps"

http://zatznotfunny.com/2014-12/plex-coming-to-tivo-via-opera-tv-store/


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There is a way to launch it directly to favorites, but it would be nice if TiVo had a way to add links directly to the individual apps.


----------



## damondlt (Jan 5, 2014)

Will the T6 cable versions get the same updates?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

damondlt said:


> Will the T6 cable versions get the same updates?


Most likely, sooner or later. The cableco is in charge of their own update schedule though.


----------



## damondlt (Jan 5, 2014)

Okay, hopefully it it doesn't get drawn out.


----------



## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> There is a way to launch it directly to favorites, but it would be nice if TiVo had a way to add links directly to the individual apps.


Favorites?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's called MY Opera TV Store Apps. You can create a personal list of apps so you don't have to wade through all the others or search every time.


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

installed it yesterday, still no sign whatsoever of Plex


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tivoknucklehead said:


> installed it yesterday, still no sign whatsoever of Plex


And you won't see it until everyone has the release!

I am not sure why that is so hard for everyone to understand. This is an Opera Store app, that will not work without the update. TiVo cannot limit the content in the Opera store based TSN - so it is either there or not there.

They are not going to allow the Opera store to publish the Plex app until it works on the platform...

Thus - not until full release.

/rant


----------



## filovirus (Aug 22, 2013)

bradleys said:


> And you won't see it until everyone has the release!
> 
> I am not sure why that is so hard for everyone to understand. This is an Opera Store app, that will not work without the update. TiVo cannot limit the content in the Opera store based TSN - so it is either there or not there.
> 
> ...


How long does a full release usually take?


----------



## rjtrudel (Sep 23, 2008)

Its not happening now. Look at the updated release notes. It's gone.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

rjtrudel said:


> Its not happening now. Look at the updated release notes. It's gone.


We don't know that for sure, but the circumstantial evidence sure seems to be stacking up...


----------



## jdacats (Apr 10, 2015)

We know for sure now.

Email this morning from Megan in customer support saying:

"At this time we do not offer Plex. If the Opera store plans to add any features you are more then welcome to contact them as to when they plan to add it.

Sincerely,
Megan"

I've since sent a pretty angry email back asking how you plan on pretending you didn't just pull the rug out from everyone _after_ you released an update.

I had conversations on the 8th and 9th with chat support, email and phone in which all the reps gave me various methods of getting Plex to show up then suddenly on the 10th I see the changelog has removed Plex and now everyone I talk to acts like nothing happened and "what is this Plex you speak of?"

To quote Nick Fury - this is why I have trust issues.

Would love some feedback and ideas from those of you that have been around here a lot longer than me.

Don't know how a major company can do such a stunningly bad job with a roll out and still maintain any loyal subscribers. (for the record, I've been a subscriber for over 8 years but the "loyal" part is getting really worn thin)


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

No. all she said was that tivo does not offer plex 'at this time'

A true statement. DOes not say if tivo does or does not plan to in the near future.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I understand the need for company tight-lippedness. But there are ways of doing it, and TiVo's, of late, smacks of Washington D.C.-speak. And that's not a compliment. 

How about trying to sound forthright with one's customers, and even actually telling them what's going on and why, if even in a general way (witness the downloads/Downloads Manager debacle)? Especially here, where there is an on-going and financial relationship.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I've never known a time when Tivo CSR's knew much of anything before we did. This isn't any different.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I've never known a time when Tivo CSR's knew much of anything before we did. This isn't any different.


Exactly, there's not been a case that I can recall where CSRs were in the know about a rumored item and accurate about it before it was released, and frequently they don't know about it upon release until the info trickles down.

Trusting a CSRs statement on Plex isn't going to be accurate.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I've never known a time when Tivo CSR's knew much of anything before we did. This isn't any different.


But, it's after-the-fact behavior as well as that before. And as to the before, that signals an issue as well.


----------



## jdacats (Apr 10, 2015)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I've never known a time when Tivo CSR's knew much of anything before we did. This isn't any different.


Ok, fair enough but have you ever known of a time for Tivo to remove a major part of an update _after_ the update has begun rolling out? I've only been with them for eight years but I can't recall one. I do remember problems with parts of updates that took time to fix but not the complete removal of a feature.

Also, looking at the words "at this time" from my reply feels like grasping at straws.

The facts make this really puzzling. We know that a large number of apps - many of which do very similar things to Plex - are on the device. All of them had to go through beta testing, legal agreements, more testing, more contracts etc. You can very reasonably assume Plex went through this process as well and you can also reasonably assume that it passed them to the point it made it to the official changelog that was released. I honestly can't think of anything other than a major problem occurred at the last minute.

I just wish to God Tivo would let us know too. I know many subscribers - maybe even most - don't care about this but there's a significant number of us that do. Very much.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Just a few months ago they goofed by mentioning HBO Go integration in the iOS app release notes. Talk about a huge oopsie. Nobody harangued CSR's over it.

Plex not being ready just makes it all the more likely CSR's aren't going to know anything about it.

It doesn't mean we're not going to get it soon-ish. Someone screwed up. Stuff happens. Maybe they have to wait for a specific date and someone jumped the gun. The left hand not knowing what the right is doing isn't a new Tivo phenomenon. Their marketing/PR arm has been misfiring lately. They didn't even know they released a version 2 of the Mini at first.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

With this update I found the following problem:

I will use CBS *60 Minutes* to demonstrate the problem.

If I go the _one pass _for *60 Minutes* I see one upcoming episode for next Sunday as would be expected, but if I go directly to tonight's *60 Minutes* recording and go to explore the program I find no upcoming episodes, I tried this on about 5 shows that all have upcoming episodes in the next two weeks, and each one showed no upcoming episodes in the next two weeks, but going to the_ One Pass _for each did show the upcoming episodes. This is not how it worked before this last update to 20.4.7

I would like confirmation as I may be doing something incorrectly.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

lessd said:


> With this update I found the following problem:
> 
> I will use CBS *60 Minutes* to demonstrate the problem.
> 
> ...


I just tried this on a few different shows. I see different behavior than what is bolded. I see things correctly when I go to a show, Explore this show->Upcoming. The upcoming episodes are there. I am on 20.4.7-usa-6-848 software (Roamio Plus).

I don't know if you are doing anything incorrectly, but your results are different than mine. I even tried a CBS show (Big Bang Theory) and the upcoming episodes showed up fine.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

justen_m said:


> I just tried this on a few different shows. I see different behavior than what is bolded. I see things correctly when I go to a show, Explore this show->Upcoming. The upcoming episodes are there. I am on 20.4.7-usa-6-848 software (Roamio Plus).
> 
> I don't know if you are doing anything incorrectly, but your results are different than mine. I even tried a CBS show (Big Bang Theory) and the upcoming episodes showed up fine.


I think OP is just bad at explaining what he means. If you select a recording from the guide and list the upcoming shows, it no longer indicates which shows are to be recorded. When you list the upcoming shows from a One Pass the ones that will be recorded still have a double-check mark to indicate recording due to One Pass. Seems to be an bug somewhere.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> I think OP is just bad at explaining what he means. If you select a recording from the guide and list the upcoming shows, it no longer indicates which shows are to be recorded. When you list the upcoming shows from a One Pass the ones that will be recorded still have a double-check mark to indicate recording due to One Pass. Seems to be an bug somewhere.


*That it!! *sorry if I did not explain it as I should have.


----------



## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm happy to report that the problem of suggestion recordings not completing due to a tuner allocation problem -- a suggestion just starting could steal the tuner from a suggestion underway -- appears to be fixed. It's difficult to notice the problem and even more difficult to know if its gone, but you may notice a lot more movies in your suggestions these days. Movies were especially susceptible to the problem because their length gave them more opportunities to get clobbered.

A new unrelated bug...

Sometimes, when I enter a folder with only one item in it, I do not see a selection bar highlighting the one item. The select button does nothing. I have to leave the folder and return to correct the problem.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

sinanju said:


> A new unrelated bug...
> 
> Sometimes, when I enter a folder with only one item in it, I do not see a selection bar highlighting the one item. The select button does nothing. I have to leave the folder and return to correct the problem.


This has been noted by others, and it's consistent. It *always* does it the first time you go into a group of one, and is fixed by doing what you're doing... backing out and re-entering. Minor but PITA bug.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

astrohip said:


> This has been noted by others, and it's consistent. It *always* does it the first time you go into a group of one, and is fixed by doing what you're doing... backing out and re-entering. Minor but PITA bug.


Yep, I just experienced it for the first time tonight as a matter of fact.


----------



## Chris-AV-Dealer (Nov 19, 2014)

Just thought I'd let you all know some feedback I received:

Stop checking the opera store everyday to see if Plex is there. It's not coming until June. So it won't be available in the 20.4.7 update. That is why it was pulled from the release notes. I know, bummer. We waited this long, what's another two months. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Thanks for the news/update. (Heaven knows why TiVo itself doesn't keep its (loyal) user base so advised.)


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Chris-AV-Dealer said:


> Just thought I'd let you all know some feedback I received:
> 
> Stop checking the opera store everyday to see if Plex is there. It's not coming until June. So it won't be available in the 20.4.7 update. That is why it was pulled from the release notes. I know, bummer. We waited this long, what's another two months.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is good to know... A few months isn't an issue as long as we know it hasn't been sh*t canned all together.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Chris-AV-Dealer said:


> Just thought I'd let you all know some feedback I received: Stop checking the opera store everyday to see if Plex is there. It's not coming until June. So it won't be available in the 20.4.7 update. That is why it was pulled from the release notes. I know, bummer. We waited this long, what's another two months.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who's your source?


----------



## Chris-AV-Dealer (Nov 19, 2014)

Not sure if I should name names on this forum since it is monitored by Tivo. Wouldn't want to get anyone is trouble, but source is concrete. However, that doesn't mean they won't push the release back further. It definitely hasn't been canned. Many have requested this feature and Tivo knows it is a key app for their boxes.

All I can say is source is not Tivo Support number. They are a third party and have no direct interaction with Tivo. So anything Tivo is planning they don't know about until it is released.


----------



## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

Same with Amazon Prime. It was leaked, and it was 2 upgrades before it arrived.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Chris-AV-Dealer said:


> Not sure if I should name names on this forum since it is monitored by Tivo.


Nope--keep it to yourself (and further info.!).


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Anyone notice that Upcoming list for a show is totally broken now, as in you don't see anything listed for the next two weeks? The Episodes list has been fubar for a while now but it's now spread to Upcoming not working right either.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I don't know if it is the stations in general or something with 2.0.4.7, but every single show I record either starts earlier than the recording or runs over. I am having to pad everything by a couple minutes.


----------



## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I don't know if it is the stations in general or something with 2.0.4.7, but every single show I record either starts earlier than the recording or runs over. I am having to pad everything by a couple minutes.


I'm having the same issue with Person of Interest. It always starts a minute early. Pretty sire it's CBS' doing.


----------



## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

gamo62 said:


> It always starts a minute early. Pretty sire it's CBS' doing.


That's not TiVo, its the networks. They do that to get you to stay on their channel by forcing you to join a competing network's show late. It's like the old "Turner Time" when WTBS (and subsequently TBS) started shows at :05 and :35 past the hour.


----------



## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

Agreed. I just pad it by a minute. Still annoying.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I fail to see how this game-playing helps any of the networks--I fail to see how it's going to keep consumers from changing channels in any significant way, and it predominantly just ticks us all off.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> I fail to see how this game-playing helps any of the networks--I fail to see how it's going to keep consumers from changing channels in any significant way, and it predominantly just ticks us all off.


Local News channels pioneered this trying to push eyeballs to the content that follows. If I remember back that far, nightly news to Nightline was the big one.

Then Turner broadcasting took their entire schedule off cycle - pushing back the start and end time by 15 minutes.

Today shows like Big Bang Theory will place the final punchline of the show, after the start time of the next show.

All of the Marvel Movies have an Easter Egg following the movie trailers.

Does it work? A lot of really smart people with a lot of money and a lot of data seem to think that it does.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bradleys said:


> Does it work? A lot of really smart people with a lot of money and a lot of data seem to think that it does.


I'm sure they do--but anecdotally, I just don't see it. And what goes around, comes around--they're (the networks) doing it to each other, and so any gain here will be a loss there.

I rarely have lost anything by missing that extra minute--I can count the occasions on one hand. But maybe I've just been lucky, in only missing closing credits.

By the way, think you have a typo there: referring to the network folk as a "lot of really smart people".


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I fail to see how this game-playing helps any of the networks--I fail to see how it's going to keep consumers from changing channels in any significant way, and it predominantly just ticks us all off.





bradleys said:


> Local News channels pioneered this trying to push eyeballs to the content that follows. If I remember back that far, nightly news to Nightline was the big one.
> 
> Then Turner broadcasting took their entire schedule off cycle - pushing back the start and end time by 15 minutes.
> 
> ...


It's not just about playing games to keep you on their network. They also do this to shift one minute of commercials to a higher rated program. Which does make them more money.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> It's not just about playing games to keep you on their network. They also do this to shift one minute of commercials to a higher rated program. Which does make them more money.


Good point. Although, I wonder if any one network comes out ahead, as they are doing it to each other, in the end.

Having said that, there could be a separate marketing/business objective, in increasing revenue for a particular show/time even if there is a return loss elsewhere.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gamo62 said:


> Agreed. I just pad it by a minute. Still annoying.


A bug introduced a few versions ago is that padding by a minute doesn't always do so. Sometimes it ends "early" and doesn't pad.


----------



## jdacats (Apr 10, 2015)

June for Plex. Lovely.

Not only is it an amateur move to yank a major update feature _after_ it's started being pushed out but it's beyond third rate as a company to give _zero_ information to the waiting subscribers.

It would cost Tivo _nothing_ to simply let everyone know - even in the most general terms - that there would be a delay. But instead those of us that are very invested in this feature spend days on chat, email and phone talking to csr's that have also been given no information.

Buying Chromecast this evening so I can have Plex.

Well done Tivo. Maybe in a few years you'll get your act together and learn to have more respect for the ones doling out your paychecks. This is pathetic.

Eight years I've been going through this same cycle and the truly sad thing is that customer service is, as far as the people go, absolutely wonderful. These people always have a great attitude. They go out of their way to help as much as they can _and_ they're available at times when other companies have gone home for the day or the weekend. It's as much a disservice to them to be put in this situation over and over again as it is to us subscribers.

I understand if some think my reaction is disproportionate but we all have features that mean a lot more to us than to others. That's the case with me and Plex and I know from feedback I'm far from alone.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

jdacats said:


> It would cost Tivo _nothing_ to simply let everyone know - even in the most general terms - that there would be a delay. But instead those of us that are very invested in this feature spend days on chat, email and phone talking to csr's that have also been given no information.


Right on par with the TiVo Downloads Manager debacle, where TiVo has eliminated the podcasts video download capability, previously available and being used by TiVo consumers, without any advance notice/warning whatsoever, let alone discussion as to whether this should be done.

Isn't there a value, including profit, from candor, especially in an on-going service relationship?


----------



## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Mikeguy said:


> Isn't there a value, including profit, from candor, especially in an on-going service relationship?


Candor would be a component of corporate "good will". TiVo seems to be burning through a lot of that lately.


----------



## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

Just a couple more data points on the Plex release...

This was in the comments of a recent blog post on the Plex website:
https://blog.plex.tv/2015/04/16/huge-update-smart-tv-app/comment-page-1/#comments


> Al: what happened to the tivo app? it was scheduled to be released with the most recent tivo update but it was pulled! why did you pull it?
> elan (head of Plex): @Al ~ We're working with them on making it available.


It's also worth noting that these comments are at the bottom of a blog post announcing "Huge update for our Smart TV app" which is Opera-based. That blog post was made just a couple of days ago (4/16). Someone previously commented in these forums that they spoke to an Opera rep who confirmed that Plex was coming the TiVo by way of an Opera app. I suspect that these things are all intertwined.

More bad news though: It looks like the Plex app for Opera doesn't support Plex Channels (at least not currently).


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

srauly said:


> Just a couple more data points on the Plex release...
> 
> This was in the comments of a recent blog post on the Plex website:
> https://blog.plex.tv/2015/04/16/huge-update-smart-tv-app/comment-page-1/#comments.


Screen shots look pretty good.

When this goes out I am sure people are going to be pretty ticked when they find out it is still for Plex Pass users only.

I can't wait to read all about how terrible TiVo is for allowing Plex to charge to use their app...

Mark my words, it will happen.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Screen shots look pretty good.
> 
> When this goes out I am sure people are going to be pretty ticked when they find out it is still for Plex Pass users only.
> 
> ...


No matter what comes to be,someone, maybe even me will complain about some part of it. The requirement for a plexpass subscription IF this runs well on the tivo will not be the item that will keep me from it. I look forward to setting up the server side and enabling this on my Tivos.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> When this goes out I am sure people are going to be pretty ticked when they find out it is still for Plex Pass users only.


 I won't be using it if that's the case seeing as there are still free alternatives. Not surprised or ticked off it is a requirement but it will no doubt limit the TiVO audience using it.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

It will only be Plex pass for a while. I have been playing with it on my chromecast - and paid the $30 to become a Plex pass member for a year.

I turned off auto renew and hopefully it transitions into a free use product before my subscription runs out. I don't see myself paying for another year of Plexpass though.

I think it is smart to mention it on this forum - just so the general public isn't surprised. It is the Plex teams standard procedure to require a Plex pass for new popular offerings.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

moyekj said:


> I won't be using it if that's the case seeing as there are still free alternatives. Not surprised or ticked off it is a requirement but it will no doubt limit the TiVO audience using it.


I know there will need to be development work associated with this system somewhere. Integration with kmttg, metadata, who knows but it will need SOMETHING. I would be more than willing to buy your plexpass licence to give you the tools to help in this. I know you dont take donations, but this is a tool for your work, not a donation. Think about it. PM me if you are willing.

Same offer goes out to wmcbrine for pytivo development around this new plex integration.

I see these tools as being complementary with the sum greater than the parts.


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

The most important thing to me is how much of my media can be direct played on Plex? I am not interested in transcoding anything.

50% of my material is SD XViD in .avi containers
40% of it is HD H.264 in .mkv containers

If I have to transcode the video or audio in any of my files, I won't be interested. I'll stick to my Kodi ChromeBox.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Kmttg is so flexible, and well designed I cannot think of any updates it would need to support Plex. All Plex really needs is a video file on an accessible server.

Plex tends to be very forgiving locating the metadata for Movies, although, it seems to really like a "specific" format and directory structure for the TV series:










Kmttg is really good at allowing you to create an extract format like this: ShowName - sXXeYY

The manual part is setting the the directory structure. I suppose if moyekj felt inclined, he could add a default "Plex Series" and "Plex Multi-Episode" format extract options... But you would still have to build the appropriate directory structure.

I don't archive a lot off of My TiVo anymore, most of my content is coming from old DVD rips. Most of my new digital content is coming from Vudu...


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Philmatic said:


> The most important thing to me is how much of my media can be direct played on Plex? I am not interested in transcoding anything.
> 
> 50% of my material is SD XViD in .avi containers
> 40% of it is HD H.264 in .mkv containers
> ...


 Anything that can't be played natively on a TiVo will need to be transcoded - there's no getting around that. Tools we have direct control over such as pyTivo and streambaby can try and minimize transcoding as much as possible (for example by doing a simple container remux where possible vs a full transcode). For Plex server side I don't think you will have as much flexibility to control exactly what it does, so for example a .mkv container will likely result in full transcode no matter what video/audio codecs are in there. So in some ways Plex will be less optimal than existing solutions. The big differentiator for Plex, however, is since it's using Opera/html it will run natively on TiVo Mini. I guess some like the Plex user interface as well, though I generally don't care about that as much.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

moyekj said:


> Anything that can't be played natively on a TiVo will need to be transcoded - there's no getting around that. Tools we have direct control over such as pyTivo and streambaby can try and minimize transcoding as much as possible (for example by doing a simple container remux where possible vs a full transcode). For Plex server side I don't think you will have as much flexibility to control exactly what it does, so for example a .mkv container will likely result in full transcode no matter what video/audio codecs are in there. So in some ways Plex will be less optimal than existing solutions. The big differentiator for Plex, however, is since it's using Opera/html it will run natively on TiVo Mini. I guess some like the Plex user interface as well, though I generally don't care about that as much.


That is correct, but just to be clear with the OP. You will not have to manually transcode your library to watch it on TiVo. Plex (As well as PyTiVo) will transcode the movie at run time. Your Library will be unaffected.


----------



## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

To add onto the last two comments...

Many folks have concerns about any sort of transcoding since transcoding is equated to a loss of quality, but that's not always the case. I usually use the terminology "downconversion" when talking about transcoding which results in a loss of quality.

For anyone here who is anxiously awaiting the arrival of Plex, but who hasn't tried out StreamBaby, I would encourage you to do so. You can even link it to your Plex Media Server library, so that it will grab your movie titles from the PMS metadata.

StreamBaby will transcode things as needed to ensure compatibility with the TiVo and it uses the same ffmpeg transcoding engine that Plex uses. Things like DTS will be transcoded to AC3, but quality should be unaffected. The lossless HD audio formats are not supported by TiVo, so you'd lose those, but an official Plex app won't support those either, for the same reason.

The UI for Plex will look slicker than StreamBaby, but StreamBaby doesn't require drilling into the Opera store to launch it.

One of the remaining reasons I'd like the official Plex app is for Plex Channel support, but it sounds like the Opera version of the Plex app doesn't currently support that (yet?).

The other big advantage with an Opera Plex app would be the ability to use it on a TiVo Mini, whereas StreamBaby doesn't support that. moyekj, have you looked into the possibility of creating an Opera version of the StreamBaby app?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Not to speak for moyekj, but I don't think anyone wants the headache of hosting and submitting an app into the Opera store. Like any of the current stores, the requirements and process is labor intensive.

If somebody wanted to go that route, I would suggest partnering with member NASflix to integrate and mature the product he has already delivered. Since his presentation route is already delivered and in the Opera Store, I am sure a lot of work could be done with the local server to make it an outstanding product.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> The manual part is setting the the directory structure. I suppose if moyekj felt inclined, he could add a default "Plex Series" and "Plex Multi-Episode" format extract options... But you would still have to build the appropriate directory structure.


 You can use [/] keyword in naming template of kmttg to create directory structures as well, so should be able to create Plex like folder structure.


----------



## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

moyekj said:


> Anything that can't be played natively on a TiVo will need to be transcoded - there's no getting around that. Tools we have direct control over such as pyTivo and streambaby can try and minimize transcoding as much as possible (for example by doing a simple container remux where possible vs a full transcode). For Plex server side I don't think you will have as much flexibility to control exactly what it does, so for example a .mkv container will likely result in full transcode no matter what video/audio codecs are in there. So in some ways Plex will be less optimal than existing solutions. The big differentiator for Plex, however, is since it's using Opera/html it will run natively on TiVo Mini. I guess some like the Plex user interface as well, though I generally don't care about that as much.


At least on most other platforms Plex does a very good job of minimizing transcoding as long as the client device supports the codecs within the container. If Plex is working directly with Tivo then it should have a specific profile for Tivo so it knows codecs/bitrates supported. It does appear there are a few devices (but not many) where the profiles are not optimal yet resulting in more transcoding than necessary. On all my iOS devices (which don't support MKV but do support h.264 and AC3) MKVs are remuxed on the fly, but not transcoded, preserving original quality assuming they are encoded as h.264/AC3. It will also selectively transcode parts of the container as well. For example with an MKV containing h.264/DTS plex will leave the h.264 untouched, transcode DTS to AC3, and remux so iOS can play it.


----------



## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

sinanju said:


> I'm happy to report that the problem of suggestion recordings not completing due to a tuner allocation problem -- a suggestion just starting could steal the tuner from a suggestion underway -- appears to be fixed.


I take that back. It's still there. I'd be less worried about it if it didn't seem like exactly the thing that turns into creeping crud and start affecting scheduled recordings at some point.

*sigh* Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm confused. I'm not familiar with Plex. Looking at their website, I don't understand what Plex gets you that you don't already have with remote streaming that TiVo has.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

I just noticed that the entire 20.4.7 changelog is gone from TiVo's site. Has the update been pulled?


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bbrown9 said:


> I'm confused. I'm not familiar with Plex. Looking at their website, I don't understand what Plex gets you that you don't already have with remote streaming that TiVo has.


 You can stream video files from your computer to your TiVos or Minis. The TiVo app streams the other way from TiVo to portable device.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

bbrown9 said:


> I'm confused. I'm not familiar with Plex. Looking at their website, I don't understand what Plex gets you that you don't already have with remote streaming that TiVo has.


The Plex server will organize your local library adding all the meta data and poster art. The presentation layer is modern with a "Netflix" look and feel.

I would rather have TiVo upgrade their services to the modern MRS device view you get between two Series 4+ TiVos today - even if I had to manage my own meta data and images.

But since TiVo hasn't upgraded their own services since the Series 2 / 3, the Plex presentation, ease of use and streaming services make it an improvement over what we have for archived content.

Funny thing is, I don't archive much anymore... Now,with Vudu most of my personal content is in the UV digital locker.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

bbrown9 said:


> I just noticed that the entire 20.4.7 changelog is gone from TiVo's site. Has the update been pulled?


That would explain why my Roamio has never received it.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I received 20.4.7a today on the units that were signed up for the Priority Update for 20.4.7

My other units and my new Minis are all still at 20.4.6a


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

bbrown9 said:


> I just noticed that the entire 20.4.7 changelog is gone from TiVo's site. Has the update been pulled?


Looks like the changelog is back for 20.4.7 now.


----------



## damondlt (Jan 5, 2014)

My Blue Ridge cable T6 just got the update 2 days ago. 
One pass is kind of nice.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't personally use my Minis much so I just noticed this.

On both 20.4.6a and 20.4.7a the Mini's Info Bar on recording playback is missing both the Recorded Date/Time and the Season # and Episode #


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> I don't personally use my Minis much so I just noticed this.
> 
> On both 20.4.6a and 20.4.7a the Mini's Info Bar on recording playback is missing both the Recorded Date/Time and the Season # and Episode #


The problem is not limited to the Mini. It's there any time you are streaming.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> The problem is not limited to the Mini. It's there any time you are streaming.


You're correct, How did I miss that? How long has this been missing? Just 20.4.6?


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> You're correct, How did I miss that? How long has this been missing? Just 20.4.6?


I'm pretty sure it was OK prior to 20.4.6.


----------

