# MARVEL's Agent Carter - Spoilers



## TheOneKEA

I just finished watching the premiere 2-hour episode of Agent Carter. This show is magnificent and Hayley Atwell and the show deserve all of the rave reviews that they have received. I have a strong feeling that this will be a wildly successful miniseries for ABC and MARVEL.

Did anyone else watch it live?


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## Philosofy

This was pretty dammed good! I love how the dialogue was really 1940's. Kudos to whoever taught the actors to talk like that.


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## Kamakzie

I enjoyed it as well.


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## cheesesteak

That was very good. I have a new tv girlfriend now.


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## dianebrat

*swoon*
It's been so long, so very long, since I've had a show I've looked forward to that didn't wind up letting me down in some way when it finally aired. I think Agent Carter may be that rare show, I loved every minute, I didn't spot any of the usual annoying tropes and several common tropes were used to her advantage.

They knocked this one out of the park for me.


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## cheesesteak

Somehow this female tv reviewer seems to have not liked it:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...hero_show_is_boring_and_mostly_about_men.html


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## Rob Helmerichs

That was a strange review...for the most part, it's like she didn't watch the same show I did.

There was one one part I sympathized with: "To be fair, Agent Carter has an idea in its head, an idea about sexism. But sexism hangs on Agent Carter like a scarf made of lead, so heavy that it weighs the whole show down." I agree that the notion that the 40s were a sexist period (which seems pretty obvious to me with no help whatsoever) was seriously overplayed. But overall, it was a very enjoyable show, and most of her criticism is just plain strange (a show about a woman trying to succeed in a male-dominated field in a male-dominated area has...too many males?).


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## cheesesteak

Yes, the sexism was somewhat over played but it was the first two episodes out of 8. I expect her Neanderthal coworkers to warm up to her as the weeks go by. I know nothing about the comics though.


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## Peter000

cheesesteak said:


> Yes, the sexism was somewhat over played but it was the first two episodes out of 8. I expect her Neanderthal coworkers to warm up to her as the weeks go by. I know nothing about the comics though.


As far as I know, there wasn't ever an Agent Carter comic book. She might have appeared in Captain America though.


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## Graymalkin

Peter000 said:


> As far as I know, there wasn't ever an Agent Carter comic book. She might have appeared in Captain America though.


She was basically a supporting character. Once Captain America was thawed and entered the modern era, his romantic interest was _Sharon_ Carter, who at first was Peggy's younger sister and later, when WWII was too far in the past for modern readers, her niece. However, Peggy was not a founder/leader of SHIELD -- that's strictly in the TV show. (That's as far as I know up through the 1980s -- I haven't read the comics extensively since then.)


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## dtle

The problem is not only with men, but with _white men_. It's hard to tell them all apart. The only one I can really separate is Carter's handicapped colleague, because he's been on many other sci-fi shows.


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## Maui

Doh! I forgot it was on.


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## gossamer88

I've had a crush on Hayley Atwell since Pillars of the Earth...that is all...


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## RGM1138

Well, ABC got a _lot_ of production value from the movie, to be sure. But, poor Captain America got no mention in the guest cast list at all.

Anyway, I like her and the whole retro effort, so, I'm in.


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## loubob57

gossamer88 said:


> I've had a crush on Hayley Atwell since Pillars of the Earth...that is all...


Did a Bing image search on her and saw stills from that movie.  :up:


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## gossamer88

loubob57 said:


> Did a Bing image search on her and saw stills from that movie.  :up:


It was a mini-series on Starz. It was pretty good. She was not on it enough.


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## Unbeliever

The Broken Lizard guy was distracting. He was just doing a standard Broken Lizard character. (The sexist automat customer)

--Carlos "Shenanigans!" V.


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## JYoung

dtle said:


> The problem is not only with men, but with _white men_. It's hard to tell them all apart.


So you're saying you're saying that they all look alike?


Well, it's true that the post WWII America up to the mid 60's was a great place for the male White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
If you weren't one, well....

It's sometimes tough to do a period piece because society was racist and sexist.
You can either be criticized for showing this accurately or not showing it accurately.



dtle said:


> The only one I can really separate is Carter's handicapped colleague, because he's been on many other sci-fi shows.


It's always nice to see Enver Gjokaj play something other than an Eastern European thug.


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## tiassa

dtle said:


> The problem is not only with men, but with _white men_. It's hard to tell them all apart. The only one I can really separate is Carter's handicapped colleague, because he's been on many other sci-fi shows.


The head SSR investigator was Shea Wigham, Nucky's brother Eli on Boardwalk Empire


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## trainman

JYoung said:


> It's always nice to see Enver Gjokaj play something other than an Eastern European thug.


It's always nice to see Ray Wise, period.

And I was disappointed that James Urbaniak only got to say about three words (because I like hearing Dr. Venture's voice come out of someone with a full head of hair).

My favorite part of the whole thing was the radio show, which I hope pops up occasionally in future episodes.


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## dwells

I missed this, too, but it looks like its being repeated Saturday night.
Was last night a one hour or two hours?


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## Azlen

dwells said:


> I missed this, too, but it looks like its being repeated Saturday night.
> Was last night a one hour or two hours?


Last night was two hours.


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## Rob Helmerichs

dwells said:


> I missed this, too, but it looks like its being repeated Saturday night.
> Was last night a one hour or two hours?


Two.

I believe the first hour is repeating on Saturday, and the second before the third next week...


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## DreadPirateRob

loubob57 said:


> Did a Bing image search on her and saw stills from that movie.  :up:


Va va voom!!


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## dwells

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Two.
> 
> I believe the first hour is repeating on Saturday, and the second before the third next week...


Ok- that makes sense then- couldn't figure out why the Saturday repeat was only 1 hour- thanks.


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## Bierboy

dwells said:


> Ok- that makes sense then- couldn't figure out why the Saturday repeat was only 1 hour- thanks.


Yeah, and a first-run SP for the show picks up the Saturday airing because, even though it aired last night, it must be tagged as a new separate ep....


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## Rob Helmerichs

Bierboy said:


> Yeah, and a first-run SP for the show picks up the Saturday airing because, even though it aired last night, it must be tagged as a new separate ep....


That's typical when it originally airs as a two-episode block, then as individual episodes. The SP errs on the side of caution and sees them as different (which, technically, they are).


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## madscientist

Yesterday I thought "huh, I wonder when Agent Carter" starts and I searched for it in my TiVo and nothing showed up!! I'll have to check it again... maybe I mistyped something. Rats!


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## eddyj

Not sure why my DIRECTV DVR did not pick it up. 

It does have the reruns to record. I guess I'll just have to wait.


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## LoadStar

I wouldn't say the show blew me away... it was just OK for me. Issues for me that kept me from loving it:
- lots of fairly anonymous characters running around. Aside from Peggy, Jarvis, and Sousa, everyone else was pretty much just one misogynistic pig or another. Nothing distinguished any one character from another, so all the characters tended to blend together.
- Speaking of misogynist pigs, I think they ran that into the ground and then some. While Rob loved the radio bits, for me it just was another excuse to beat the dead horse that is the theme of women's gender role in the 40s.
- The whole show was very dark. Not dark as in theme, but dark as in not brightly lit. Most of the two hours occurred at night, which just made any of the action kind of murky.


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## Rob Helmerichs

LoadStar said:


> While Rob loved the radio bits...


Wow, thanks for letting me know...I didn't have a clue that I loved them! 

Actually, the radio bits puzzle me a little. I think there may be a reason they're there that we haven't seen yet. At least, I hope so. But otherwise they just seem like random weirdness so far, and while in general I appreciate random weirdness, these just aren't weird enough to capture my fancy.


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## madscientist

madscientist said:


> Yesterday I thought "huh, I wonder when Agent Carter" starts and I searched for it in my TiVo and nothing showed up!! I'll have to check it again... maybe I mistyped something. Rats!


 Ah, the title was _Marvel's_ Agent Carter. Had to use a wishlist search to find it.

All good, I'm picking up the repeats.


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## DreadPirateRob

It seemed to me that the radio ads are/were there to (further) contrast the difference between what society would envision Carter's role to be versus what her actual role is.

As for whether they're beating the gender issue thing into the ground: a) it's the truth, and b) other period shows (i.e. Mad Men) have spent a good deal of time highlighting that, even when it's not the focal point of the show (as it is here).


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## Hunter Green

I loved how thoroughly they embrace the time period and use it to build both plot and atmosphere.


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## dianebrat

DreadPirateRob said:


> As for whether they're beating the gender issue thing into the ground: a) it's the truth, and b) other period shows (i.e. Mad Men) have spent a good deal of time highlighting that, even when it's not the focal point of the show (as it is here).


I agree, they're not ramping it up higher than it really was, and if you want to make a show with a more feminist tone (and they appear to want that, HUZZAH!) the treatment and marginalization of women is a big elephant in the room that IMO they're nicely dealing with.


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## LoadStar

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, thanks for letting me know...I didn't have a clue that I loved them!


Sorry, it was Trainman that said he loved them... scanned the thread as I was replying and thought it was you.


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## markp99

LoadStar said:


> I wouldn't say the show blew me away... it was just OK for me. Issues for me that kept me from loving it:
> - lots of fairly anonymous characters running around. Aside from Peggy, Jarvis, and Sousa, everyone else was pretty much just one misogynistic pig or another. Nothing distinguished any one character from another, so all the characters tended to blend together.
> - Speaking of misogynist pigs, I think they ran that into the ground and then some. While Rob loved the radio bits, for me it just was another excuse to beat the dead horse that is the theme of women's gender role in the 40s.
> - The whole show was very dark. Not dark as in theme, but dark as in not brightly lit. Most of the two hours occurred at night, which just made any of the action kind of murky.


Thx LoadStar, this is EXACTLY where I am with this show, on all three points. I hope I follow my trend of liking new programs only AFTER the pilot, which sometimes try too hard to set tone and establish the characters/conflicts.


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## Rob Helmerichs

dianebrat said:


> I agree, they're not ramping it up higher than it really was, and if you want to make a show with a more feminist tone (and they appear to want that, HUZZAH!) the treatment and marginalization of women is a big elephant in the room that IMO they're nicely dealing with.


I have no problem with what they're doing, just the ham-handed way they're doing it. You can treat themes artfully, or you can just bludgeon the audience with them. I much prefer the former, but they seem to lean to the latter.


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## Hoffer

eddyj said:


> Not sure why my DIRECTV DVR did not pick it up.


My DirecTV DVR picked it up.  

Someone above mentioned this was a mini-series. This is not going to be a show on next year?


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## eddyj

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I have no problem with what they're doing, just the ham-handed way they're doing it. You can treat themes artfully, or you can just bludgeon the audience with them. I much prefer the former, but they seem to lean to the latter.


But it is a central theme. She is constantly fighting against it, since she is not given any real work.


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## eddyj

Hoffer said:


> My DirecTV DVR picked it up.
> 
> Someone above mentioned this was a mini-series. This is not going to be a show on next year?


It picked it up, but then canceled it. When I checked the history, it said canceled due to a programming adjustment or something similar.

So I watched it online.


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## busyba

Let me start by saying that I know this is super-nit-picky. I'm not criticizing so much as a, "hey this is a kinda neat thing they messed up". 

Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands. 

Isn't that a somewhat modern technique? I only had ever heard of it as a thing a year or two ago, as a suggestion for helping to reduce the spread of the flu. It just struck me as an anachronism for a show set in the 1940s (that otherwise did the period very well). I could be wrong though.


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## cheesesteak

I liked the red hat. I wish women of today would wear hats more.

She stapled a dude's face. Ouch!


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## eddyj

busyba said:


> Let me start by saying that I know this is super-nit-picky. I'm not criticizing so much as a, "hey this is a kinda neat thing they messed up".
> 
> Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands.
> 
> Isn't that a somewhat modern technique? I only had ever heard of it as a thing a year or two ago, as a suggestion for helping to reduce the spread of the flu. It just struck me as an anachronism for a show set in the 1940s (that otherwise did the period very well). I could be wrong though.


That jolted me right out of scene too! Especially since they are so good about everything else, in terms of making me feel like I am really seeing something from that period.

My brother started preaching sneezing into the elbow a few years back, but it is definitely a recent thing.


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## Necromancer2006

I thought she would have a bigger cache of respect (even though she is a woman) given her contributions during WWII and Captain America.


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## alpacaboy

busyba said:


> Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands.


So are you implying that the roommate is a vampire and is not really dead?


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## busyba

alpacaboy said:


> So are you implying that the roommate is a vampire and is not really dead?


Maybe she's just vacationing in Tahiti.


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## LoadStar

Necromancer2006 said:


> I thought she would have a bigger cache of respect (even though she is a woman) given her contributions during WWII and Captain America.


The idea is that the men in SSR believe that her contributions were only *because* of her relationship to Captain America. If it weren't for him, she'd be a secretary.


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## FrodoB

busyba said:


> Maybe she's just vacationing in Tahiti.


Well, it *is* a magical place.

In seriousness, though, I've been sneezing into my elbow my entire life more or less without anyone telling me to do so. Sure, it's become a recommended technique in recent years, but I don't think that would preclude it from being possible before.


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## Stormspace

I actually like it because in this show Atwell is not a small woman. That's a big girl, and it makes more sense she could kick butt. I'm tired of seeing super waifs beat up on people that outweigh them by several orders of magnitude. Most of these women would break bones in their hands with the moves they are making and certainly don't have the muscle to be doing some things. Atwell plays a normal sized woman who can pack a punch and I'm enjoying it. 

I also wonder if she wasn't an earlier subject in the super soldier program. Perhaps a test run at lower power? That would be cool.


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## jlb

madscientist said:


> .....
> All good, I'm picking up the repeats.


Do we know if ALL episodes will have repeats or just the pilot?


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## allan

Necromancer2006 said:


> I thought she would have a bigger cache of respect (even though she is a woman) given her contributions during WWII and Captain America.


Judging by the radio, everyone probably thinks she spent all of WW2 getting rescued by Cap. The blatant sexism is annoying, but I'm sure it really was like that in those days. That made her @$$ kicking all the more impressive.


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## Stormspace

allan said:


> Judging by the radio, everyone probably thinks she spent all of WW2 getting rescued by Cap. The blatant sexism is annoying, but I'm sure it really was like that in those days. That made her @$$ kicking all the more impressive.


In the scheme of things she was a bit player that fell into Cap's shadow. I suspect the misinformation about her was intentional, at least with the general public. As for the dudes in the office, they are just believing the press. Bet only a couple have the clearance to know what really happened and of those that do, they are threatened by her and want to minimize her contributions.


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## lambertman

jlb said:


> Do we know if ALL episodes will have repeats or just the pilot?


We don't, but I don't think we should expect it.


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## eddyj

allan said:


> *Judging by the radio*, everyone probably thinks she spent all of WW2 getting rescued by Cap. The blatant sexism is annoying, but I'm sure it really was like that in those days. That made her @$$ kicking all the more impressive.


Maybe that's the purpose of the radio pieces, to show why she is disrespected.


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## loubob57

busyba said:


> Let me start by saying that I know this is super-nit-picky. I'm not criticizing so much as a, "hey this is a kinda neat thing they messed up".
> 
> Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands.
> 
> Isn't that a somewhat modern technique? I only had ever heard of it as a thing a year or two ago, as a suggestion for helping to reduce the spread of the flu. It just struck me as an anachronism for a show set in the 1940s (that otherwise did the period very well). I could be wrong though.


I thought the same thing. That's probably not what they'd do in the 40's.


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## cwoody222

Ray Wise, Enver Gjokaj and Kyle Bornheimer all together? I'm in!


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## Shakhari

The most distracting thing for me was why a Brit would be working for a U.S. government agency instead of MI-6 or something. Other than that, I liked it a lot.

I didn't recognize Lyndsey Fonseca at all until I read the credits.


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## eddyj

Shakhari said:


> The most distracting thing for me was why a Brit would be working for a U.S. government agency instead of MI-6 or something. Other than that, I liked it a lot.
> 
> I didn't recognize Lyndsey Fonseca at all until I read the credits.


Reminds me of Mackenzie in Newsroom, who is not a Brit, although she sounds like one. Not sure about Peggy though.


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## busyba

eddyj said:


> Reminds me of Mackenzie in Newsroom, who is not a Brit, although she sounds like one.




The actress is certainly a Brit, and I'm pretty sure the character is supposed to be as well.


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## eddyj

busyba said:


> The actress is certainly a Brit, and I'm pretty sure the character is supposed to be as well.


Nope. I am just watching it for the first time, and it has come up a few times.

edit:



> MacKenzie Morgan McHale was born to British parents during their time in the United States, in which her father was the British Ambassador to the UN after being appointed by Conservative British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, hence MacKenzie's American nationality


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## TonyD79

busyba said:


> Let me start by saying that I know this is super-nit-picky. I'm not criticizing so much as a, "hey this is a kinda neat thing they messed up".  Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands. Isn't that a somewhat modern technique? I only had ever heard of it as a thing a year or two ago, as a suggestion for helping to reduce the spread of the flu. It just struck me as an anachronism for a show set in the 1940s (that otherwise did the period very well). I could be wrong though.


I don't know. Some people in my family did that way back in the sixties. It isn't really new as much as recently popular. Since I was a toddler i heard "cover your mouth when you sneeze." People used different techniques including sneezing into their sleeves.


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## busyba

eddyj said:


> Nope. I am just watching it for the first time, and it has come up a few times.
> 
> edit:


Ah, okay, but still, between the British parentage and the fact that she had at least some education in England (sometime in the second season her having gone to Oxford [or perhaps Cambridge] is a topic of discussion), I don't think her having the accent she has is necessarily unreasonable.


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## Unbeliever

I knew the character was a US citizen, but I forgot about the diplomat part.

The interesting thing, though, is being the child of diplomats "on the job" is one of the exemptions to US Citizenship. Flyertalk has a ton of stories of US immigration giving a hard time to people with non-US passports that list their place of birth as being in the US, demanding a non-existent US passport.

So the character is (in real life) not supposed to be a US Citizen.

--Carlos "it's because diplomats are not 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the US re: 14th" V.


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## LoadStar

Shakhari said:


> The most distracting thing for me was why a Brit would be working for a U.S. government agency instead of MI-6 or something.


Strategic Scientific Reserve (SSR) is an Allied project, not a US government agency. Of course, it's curious that an Allied project would carry on after wartime.


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## JYoung

Well, consider that SSR becomes S.H.I.E.L.D.


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## Craigbob

busyba said:


> Let me start by saying that I know this is super-nit-picky. I'm not criticizing so much as a, "hey this is a kinda neat thing they messed up".
> 
> Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands.
> 
> Isn't that a somewhat modern technique? I only had ever heard of it as a thing a year or two ago, as a suggestion for helping to reduce the spread of the flu. It just struck me as an anachronism for a show set in the 1940s (that otherwise did the period very well). I could be wrong though.


I caught that too and looks like that started coming into vogue in the early 2000s.

Before that it was a hankie, tissue or hands.


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## Bierboy

LoadStar said:


> I wouldn't say the show blew me away... it was just OK for me...


I have to agree; it was just OK. I do love the period (1946) setting, and I will give it a good chance since it's just a mini-series...



Hoffer said:


> ...Someone above mentioned this was a mini-series. This is not going to be a show on next year?


My guess is that, if the ratings are very good, they might consider making it a series. Just an uneducated guess, though...


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## Jon J

cheesesteak said:


> I liked the red hat. I wish women of today would wear hats more.


Your thoughts on the white dress?


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## laria

JYoung said:


> It's always nice to see Enver Gjokaj play something other than an Eastern European thug.


He'll always be Victor to me. 



cwoody222 said:


> Ray Wise, Enver Gjokaj and Kyle Bornheimer all together? I'm in!


And the guy from _One Tree Hill_! 

This show is like a _Dollhouse_ reunion between Enver Gjokaj and Ray Wise.



Shakhari said:


> I didn't recognize Lyndsey Fonseca at all until I read the credits.


I knew she looked familiar! I kept trying to place her while watching it and then I totally forgot to look it up later.


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## danterner

laria said:


> He'll always be Victor to me.  And the guy from One Tree Hill!  This show is like a Dollhouse reunion between Enver Gjokaj and Ray Wise. I knew she looked familiar! I kept trying to place her while watching it and then I totally forgot to look it up later.


I was glad to see Andre Royo (Bubbles, from The Wire)


Spoiler



though he didn't last too long unfortunately.


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## dianebrat

Shakhari said:


> I didn't recognize Lyndsey Fonseca at all until I read the credits.





laria said:


> I knew she looked familiar! I kept trying to place her while watching it and then I totally forgot to look it up later.


and then I realized she was the daughter on HIMYM and it all clicked in place...

I also meant to swing back to the thread to just mention how much I loved that she STAPLED a guy in the head in a fight.


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## Rob Helmerichs

dianebrat said:


> and then I realized she was the daughter on HIMYM and it all clicked in place...
> 
> I also meant to swing back to the thread to just mention how much I loved that she STAPLED a guy in the head in a fight.


The fact that she played a kick-ass spy in Nikita makes me assume that her character on MAC is a plant...


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## Shakhari

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The fact that she played a kick-ass spy in Nikita makes me assume that her character on MAC is a plant...


Nikita and Kick-Ass are where I know her.


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## mr.unnatural

Two hours of enjoyable TV. What more could you ask for?

The whole sexist thing was rampant back in the day and the repetitiveness of it just reinforces what women had to deal with in a man's world. I suspect the writers will start backing off on it once the rest of the men in the office start to realize she's every bit their equal, although there will still be a few A-holes that won't be able to accept the fact.

I think you guys are over thinking the sneeze into the elbow. I'd wager that at least a few people did that back in the day. Granted, what we know about the spread of disease and infection makes us think about doing it more as a rule these days, but I can see people doing it back then if they didn't have a tissue handy.


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## stevel

My wife and I just watched the pilot episodes and we loved it. It was immediately evident that this was NOT a Whedon show, but that's ok. I thought the typewriter with the razor antenna was cute, though it seems to me that the messages could be incriminating if not thoroughly destroyed. (I remember playing with a razor exactly like that one (without a blade) when I was a kid - I was entranced by the mechanism.)

I agree that Haley Atwell is perfect in this role.


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## Amnesia

I thought the typewriter was too similar to the one in _Fringe_...


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## DreadPirateRob

Amnesia said:


> I thought the typewriter was too similar to the one in _Fringe_...


+1


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## squint

Quantum entangled typewriters are perfectly croumulent communication devices.


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## stellie93

Amnesia said:


> I thought the typewriter was too similar to the one in _Fringe_...


Thank you! I couldn't think where I had seen that before, but it looked soooo familiar. :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs

Amnesia said:


> I thought the typewriter was too similar to the one in _Fringe_...


Don't be absurd. The typewriter on Fringe was a quantum-entangled device that communicated across universes. This one was just a prototypical teletype that communicated across continents. Completely different thing!


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## gweempose

Shakhari said:


> I didn't recognize Lyndsey Fonseca at all until I read the credits.


I recognized her voice right away, but it took me a couple minutes to put my finger on who she was. I always thought she was really pretty on Nikita, but she looked remarkably plain on this show. I'm not sure if they are purposely downplaying her looks, or if she simply appears average next to the gorgeous Hayley Atwell.


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## aaronwt

busyba said:


> Let me start by saying that I know this is super-nit-picky. I'm not criticizing so much as a, "hey this is a kinda neat thing they messed up".
> 
> Early in the ep, when we first see the blonde roommate who eventually ends up dead. She sneezed and did one of those "vampire sneezes" where she covered her mouth by sneezing into the crook of her elbow rather than into her hands.
> 
> Isn't that a somewhat modern technique? I only had ever heard of it as a thing a year or two ago, as a suggestion for helping to reduce the spread of the flu. It just struck me as an anachronism for a show set in the 1940s (that otherwise did the period very well). I could be wrong though.


Definitely not new. My GF was born in the fifities. Her mother will be ninety this weekend. They taught her when she was little to do the arm thing. My GF never really liked it but her mom was doing that before the time period that Agent Carter is in.


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## hummingbird_206

I was disappointed in the show. I was very much looking forward to it. I love Peggy, and it's great meeting Jarvis. But the episode fell flat for me. I was really hoping that we'd being seeing Peggy with the Howling Commandos. I would love to see them seeking out all of the HYDRA/Nazi artifacts. 

Being beaten over the head with all the sexism stuff is not entertaining to me. Reminds me of Wonder Woman (Lynda Carter incarnation) but without the fun costume.

I'll keep recording it since there are only 7 total eps. But not sure how quickly I'll get around to watching.


----------



## mattack

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Don't be absurd. The typewriter on Fringe was a quantum-entangled device that communicated across universes. This one was just a prototypical teletype that communicated across continents. Completely different thing!


Woah.. I was thinking "this seems really do-able".. looking on wikipedia, there was a printing telegraph in 1846!


----------



## mattack

Unbeliever said:


> The Broken Lizard guy was distracting. He was just doing a standard Broken Lizard character. (The sexist automat customer)


I know nothing about the character -- but wouldn't more people be complaining if he WASN'T doing the same character? (I presume you're referring to someone from the comics..)

BTW, in all automats I've seen in TV/movies, I've never seen one like this one, that seemed to be more like a diner/automat combination. Yeah, I realize the food IN an automat has to be made somewhere, but this one seemed to have a regular order window/short order cook behind the window and waitresses.. Other times I just remember seeing a wall of doors and/or some kind of vending machine type of thing.


----------



## stevel

I often visited Horn&Hardart Automats in NYC when I was a kid, but don't ever recall seeing this sort of diner combo. On the show, Angie just walks up to the doors and opens one - in the real thing you had to put in your quarters first and the whole idea was that yoiu served yourself. The real automats had a kitchen behind the wall.


----------



## dtle

hummingbird_206 said:


> I was really hoping that we'd being seeing Peggy with the Howling Commandos.





Spoiler



Yes we will


----------



## Dawghows

I never read Captain America, and don't really know anything much about the characters other than what we were shown in the (first) movie, but my wife and I both found these first two Agent Carter episodes to be tons of fun. I agree the sexism is pretty in-your-face, but it's not detracting from our enjoyment at all.


----------



## Unbeliever

mattack said:


> I know nothing about the character -- but wouldn't more people be complaining if he WASN'T doing the same character? (I presume you're referring to someone from the comics..)


Broken Lizard is the group that did the "Beerfest" and "Super Troopers" movies. The actor played Farva in Super Troopers.

--Carlos V.


----------



## TonyD79

Unbeliever said:


> Broken Lizard is the group that did the "Beerfest" and "Super Troopers" movies. The actor played Farva in Super Troopers. --Carlos V.


Some of the worst movies ever made.


----------



## mattack

TonyD79 said:


> Some of the worst movies ever made.


Could it be any worse than "Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie"?

I saw it for free, and was overcharged!


----------



## mattack

stevel said:


> I often visited Horn&Hardart Automats in NYC when I was a kid, but don't ever recall seeing this sort of diner combo. On the show, Angie just walks up to the doors and opens one - in the real thing you had to put in your quarters first and the whole idea was that yoiu served yourself.


Though I also got the impression that in this one, you might end up paying depending on the # and type of plates you have on your table when you're done.. similar to sushi boat places.


----------



## cmontyburns

Enjoyable third episode. I think this show is already more self-confident than SHIELD is after 30+ episodes. I really like what they're doing.


----------



## cheesesteak

cmontyburns said:


> Enjoyable third episode. I think this show is already more self-confident than SHIELD is after 30+ episodes. I really like what they're doing.


I like SHIELD now but its first year wasn't all that great, especially the first half of the season. Agent Carter is light years more enjoyable than SHIELD was at the same point of their runs.

_(edit: rest of "spoilery" post moved to episode thread)_


----------



## aaronwt

cheesesteak said:


> I like SHIELD now but its first year wasn't all that great, especially the first half of the season. Agent Carter is light years more enjoyable than SHIELD was at the same point of their runs.
> 
> When they were underground, the diffusion pattern of Peggy's flashlight reminded me of Captain America's shield.
> 
> I thought "He's dead" when the SSR agent transported the captured guy from the boat in the car by himself. I didn't know how but it just seemed odd that he'd transport a prisoner back to HQ alone.
> 
> Is this a spoilers or non-spoilers thread? I probably should have asked before posting the previous two sentences.


It was also odd that he would get bumped by a car from behind and not be on alert. But wasn't the guy also not the sharpest of the bunch?


----------



## Jagman_sl

Did anybody else get the impression that



Spoiler



the killer was a woman? The person seemed to move like a female, and I think I saw long blonde hair poking out from under their hat. My first thought after that was of the new girl (Dottie?) at the home where Peggy is staying.


----------



## cmontyburns

cheesesteak said:


> Is this a spoilers or non-spoilers thread? I probably should have asked before posting the previous two sentences.


I think no spoilers, since it is not an episode thread and spoilers are not cautioned in the thread title. That's why I didn't comment specifically on a couple of aspects of the third ep that I liked.

Maybe we could have this turned into a spoiler thread now that the show has launched?


----------



## cheesesteak

cmontyburns said:


> I think no spoilers, since it is not an episode thread and spoilers are not cautioned in the thread title. That's why I didn't comment specifically on a couple of aspects of the third ep that I liked.
> 
> Maybe we could have this turned into a spoiler thread now that the show has launched?


I'll create an episode thread for last night's episode and move my spoilery post to that one. That way we can discuss whatever we want.


----------



## dianebrat

Jagman_sl said:


> Did anybody else get the impression that
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> the killer was a woman? The person seemed to move like a female, and I think I saw long blonde hair poking out from under their hat. My first thought after that was of the new girl (Dottie?) at the home where Peggy is staying.


yes totally and I was going to post the same thought.


----------



## markp99

dianebrat said:


> yes totally and I was going to post the same thought.


Absolutely. I was half guessing it might be the new blond from the boarding house.


----------



## TonyD79

mattack said:


> Could it be any worse than "Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie"?
> 
> I saw it for free, and was overcharged!


I said "some."


----------



## DavidJL

I haven't watched this yet(or read the previous posts) so forgive me if this is already answered in the thread. Is it recommended to watch up to a certain point on Agents of SHIELD and/or the Marvel movies before watching this?


----------



## markp99

DavidJL said:


> I haven't watched this yet(or read the previous posts) so forgive me if this is already answered in the thread. Is it recommended to watch up to a certain point on Agents of SHIELD and/or the Marvel movies before watching this?


Agents of Shield not so much, but the last 2 Captain America movies provide good backstory.


----------



## hummingbird_206

DavidJL said:


> I haven't watched this yet(or read the previous posts) so forgive me if this is already answered in the thread. Is it recommended to watch up to a certain point on Agents of SHIELD and/or the Marvel movies before watching this?


It would be helpful to watch the first Captain America movie, but I think you can still follow the story without it. There are several 'flashbacks' to the movie that explain things.


----------



## alpacaboy

DavidJL said:


> I haven't watched this yet(or read the previous posts) so forgive me if this is already answered in the thread. Is it recommended to watch up to a certain point on Agents of SHIELD and/or the Marvel movies before watching this?


I think watching any of Agents of SHIELD is not really important to appreciate Agent Carter.

I think Agent Carter holds up on its own, and it references (flashbacks) parts of Captain America (the first one) when it needs to.

But if you want to be more invested in the Agent Carter character going in, then maybe watch Captain America (the first one) and the Agent Carter one-shot(it's on the Iron Man 3 DVD).


----------



## Archangel00

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

There's actually a few minutes in a couple of SHIELD eps that occur in between the end of Cap 1 and the beginning of Agent Carter, but that content isn't really relevant to this series. Keep scrolling down for every single piece.


----------



## martinp13

stevel said:


> I often visited Horn&Hardart Automats in NYC when I was a kid, but don't ever recall seeing this sort of diner combo. On the show, Angie just walks up to the doors and opens one - in the real thing you had to put in your quarters first and the whole idea was that yoiu served yourself. The real automats had a kitchen behind the wall.


That's the automats I remember from my visit to NYC as a kid in the 60s: self-serve pay to get food from a little door in a wall. Basically what today would be a vending machine room with tables. No waitresses, just someone to clean the tables.


----------



## oscarfish

Might be a little late to be asking nitpickie plot question, but does anyone know how the SSR guys found out about the milk truck driver? If I hadn't gone back and tried to find where they found out about the milk truck, I'd just assume that I missed it. I can't find it. Perhaps a scene was cut.

It doesn't help that so many characters are white, male and have the same/similar hair cut, and that so much of the first two episodes were dark. Once I realized that the guy in the interrogation room with the moles was the same guy in the plant that imploded, I went back to look. I could barely tell it was the same person. Without the other context information, I certainly would never figure it out.


----------



## Jon J

martinp13 said:


> That's the automats I remember from my visit to NYC as a kid in the 60s: self-serve pay to get food from a little door in a wall.


Horn and Hardart was the name I remember.


----------



## Swirl_Junkie

They have a horn and hardart window wall at the smithsonian. They were popular in philly also, but before my time.


----------



## DevdogAZ

gossamer88 said:


> I've had a crush on Hayley Atwell since Pillars of the Earth...that is all...


I could have written this post verbatim.


----------



## cheesesteak

DevdogAZ said:


> I could have written this post verbatim.


She's *my* tv girlfriend. Leave her alone!


----------



## DevdogAZ

cheesesteak said:


> She's *my* tv girlfriend. Leave her alone!


I saw her first!


----------



## LoadStar

I called dibs!


----------



## Bierboy

LoadStar said:


> I called dibs!


I call DOUBLE dibs...


----------



## Ereth

Archangel00 said:


> http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
> 
> There's actually a few minutes in a couple of SHIELD eps that occur in between the end of Cap 1 and the beginning of Agent Carter, but that content isn't really relevant to this series. Keep scrolling down for every single piece.


The one thing I can't figure out is where the One Shot occurs in relationship to the series. I think it has to occur AFTER the series, since she goes off to run SHIELD at the end of it, but the timeline seems wonky to me.


----------



## Philosofy

Ereth said:


> The one thing I can't figure out is where the One Shot occurs in relationship to the series. I think it has to occur AFTER the series, since she goes off to run SHIELD at the end of it, but the timeline seems wonky to me.


Although the series was inspired by the one shot, I don't see how it would be able to fit into the series, unless at the end of this series she gets transferred to another NY office, and the one shot occurs.


----------



## cmontyburns

Ereth said:


> The one thing I can't figure out is where the One Shot occurs in relationship to the series. I think it has to occur AFTER the series, since she goes off to run SHIELD at the end of it, but the timeline seems wonky to me.





Philosofy said:


> Although the series was inspired by the one shot, I don't see how it would be able to fit into the series, unless at the end of this series she gets transferred to another NY office, and the one shot occurs.


Fazekas and Butters (the showrunners) talk about that briefly in this interview.


----------



## wtherrell

cmontyburns said:


> Fazekas and Butters (the showrunners) talk about that briefly in this interview.


May as well tell us here. I went to that website & could not read past the first couple of lines for all the pop-up crap that kept obscuring the text.


----------



## aaronwt

cmontyburns said:


> Fazekas and Butters (the showrunners) talk about that briefly in this interview.





wtherrell said:


> May as well tell us here. I went to that website & could not read past the first couple of lines for all the pop-up crap that kept obscuring the text.


I can't read it either. The site is blocked here at work.


----------



## john4200

wtherrell said:


> May as well tell us here. I went to that website & could not read past the first couple of lines for all the pop-up crap that kept obscuring the text.


It is only a brief comment on what they call "the short". It is a general spoiler about the series, so I will put it in spoiler tags.



Spoiler



Fazekas: If you think of the short as sort of the end of the series, the series would be leading up to that moment where she gets assigned to SHIELD.


----------



## cmontyburns

A bit more, from the same interview:



Spoiler



IGN TV: Peggy Carter is established as this great character, but when we start this show, where's she at?

Michele Fazekas: Did you see the short?

IGN: Yes.

Fazekas: Okay, so the short really is the basis for the series. So she's working at SSR, post-war -- so it's post-war, post-Captain America. As far as she knows, Captain America's dead. So that's where the world lives.

IGN: How will that work with the short, because I think Ive heard it kind of takes place in between? Does the short still exist, or are you going to be telling a new version of that?

Fazekas: If you think of the short as sort of the end of the series, the series would be leading up to that moment where she gets assigned to SHIELD.


----------



## wtherrell

john4200 said:


> It is only a brief comment on what they call "the short". It is a general spoiler about the series, so I will put it in spoiler tags.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Fazekas: If you think of the short as sort of the end of the series, the series would be leading up to that moment where she gets assigned to SHIELD.


Thanks.


----------



## wtherrell

cmontyburns said:


> A bit more, from the same interview:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> IGN TV: Peggy Carter is established as this great character, but when we start this show, where's she at?
> 
> Michele Fazekas: Did you see the short?
> 
> IGN: Yes.
> 
> Fazekas: Okay, so the short really is the basis for the series. So she's working at SSR, post-war -- so it's post-war, post-Captain America. As far as she knows, Captain America's dead. So that's where the world lives.
> 
> IGN: How will that work with the short, because I think Ive heard it kind of takes place in between? Does the short still exist, or are you going to be telling a new version of that?
> 
> Fazekas: If you think of the short as sort of the end of the series, the series would be leading up to that moment where she gets assigned to SHIELD.


& More thanks.


----------



## Azlen

Does anyone else think that Leviathan could be


Spoiler



the Winter Soldier?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Azlen said:


> Does anyone else think that Leviathan could be
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> the Winter Soldier?


In the comics, Leviathan is


Spoiler



a Soviet secret spy agency, in opposition to SHIELD, Hydra, etc., that eventually became independent and survived the fall of the Soviet Union. It was the main opponent in the brilliant (to my mind) Secret Warriors series starring Nick Fury in his fugitive days after being deposed from SHIELD after the Secret War.


----------



## JYoung

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In the comics, Leviathan is
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> a Soviet secret spy agency, in opposition to SHIELD, Hydra, etc., that eventually became independent and survived the fall of the Soviet Union. It was the main opponent in the brilliant (to my mind) Secret Warriors series starring Nick Fury in his fugitive days after being deposed from SHIELD after the Secret War.


Speaking of Leviathan,


Spoiler



in the previews, they mentioned a special girl.
While we may not see the Winter Soldier, I'm wondering if the girl they talked about is Natasha Romanov.


----------



## Ereth

JYoung said:


> Speaking of Leviathan,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> in the previews, they mentioned a special girl.
> While we may not see the Winter Soldier, I'm wondering if the girl they talked about is Natasha Romanov.


That was my first thought as well, but the timeline is wrong. This is 1946. It can't be.



Spoiler



The rumor I hear is that we will learn about "The Black Widow Project", a training program that eventually produces Natasha, but that this particular child is not her. And the program may not be called that, just as SSR is not yet SHIELD.


----------



## JYoung

Ereth said:


> That was my first thought as well, but the timeline is wrong. This is 1946. It can't be.


Well,


Spoiler



the last origin of the Black Widow that I read in the comics had her treated with the Russian equivalent of the Infinity Formula.
Which is how she was able to be in training with as the Winter Soldier shortly after he was fished out of the ocean.


----------



## Ereth

I find it difficult to reconcile that idea with quotes from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I don't believe that to be a movie canon idea, only a comics canon idea. Would you disagree?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Ereth said:


> I find it difficult to reconcile that idea with quotes from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I don't believe that to be a movie canon idea, only a comics canon idea. Would you disagree?


At this point, we don't know. We shall see (assuming they ever get into her origin).


----------



## Azlen

I'm guessing Dottie is part of the Black Widow program but Natasha won't be mentioned in Agent Carter at all.


----------



## stellie93

This thread is funny. Instead of "wow, I wonder what the deal is with the superhuman dumb blonde." there's the last 10 posts which mean nothing to me. I came here expecting to see comments on last night's episode, but there really aren't any. I guess I'll give up on it.


----------



## wtherrell

stellie93 said:


> This thread is funny. Instead of "wow, I wonder what the deal is with the superhuman dumb blonde." there's the last 10 posts which mean nothing to me. I came here expecting to see comments on last night's episode, but there really aren't any. I guess I'll give up on it.


Sure, by all means.


----------



## JYoung

Ereth said:


> I find it difficult to reconcile that idea with quotes from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I don't believe that to be a movie canon idea, only a comics canon idea. Would you disagree?


I'm not disagreeing but I would like to point out that even though the word "Inhuman" has yet to be mentioned, we have them in the MCU.

Deathlok technology didn't exist in the MCU either until Agents of SHIELD introduced it.

And since Howard Stark is in Agent Carter,


Spoiler



how do we know that he isn't a recipient of the Infinity Formula.
Otherwise, he seems to be rather old to be Tony's father.

Maybe the Infinity Formula was derived from Daniel Whitehall's research on Mrs. Zabo? Or they used that instead.


----------



## Stormspace

Ereth said:


> That was my first thought as well, but the timeline is wrong. This is 1946. It can't be.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The rumor I hear is that we will learn about "The Black Widow Project", a training program that eventually produces Natasha, but that this particular child is not her. And the program may not be called that, just as SSR is not yet SHIELD.


I mentioned this in the last episode thread and quite agree that this is where they are heading. I also think it's too early to see any Winter Soldier action unless we get a glimpse of his conditioning.


----------



## cmontyburns

stellie93 said:


> This thread is funny. Instead of "wow, I wonder what the deal is with the superhuman dumb blonde." there's the last 10 posts which mean nothing to me. I came here expecting to see comments on last night's episode, but there really aren't any. I guess I'll give up on it.


The scope of this thread is a little confusing. It's not an episode-specific thread, so all manner of discussion is possible. It's also not explicitly a spoiler thread (nor not explicitly not one) so things may be spoiler-tagged or not. We did have an episode thread for last week's ep -- I'd support you starting one for this episode if you've got thoughts to share.


----------



## stellie93

I guess there are probably very few people like me with absolutely no knowledge of this universe. But the show still works, so I'll keep watching. I doubt there are enough of us to support a separate thread. No problem. :up:


----------



## cmontyburns

stellie93 said:


> I guess there are probably very few people like me with absolutely no knowledge of this universe. But the show still works, so I'll keep watching. I doubt there are enough of us to support a separate thread. No problem. :up:


The thread for last week was actually quite active.


----------



## LoadStar

stellie93 said:


> I guess there are probably very few people like me with absolutely no knowledge of this universe. But the show still works, so I'll keep watching. I doubt there are enough of us to support a separate thread. No problem. :up:


You'll find that, especially with this and Agents of SHIELD, the conversation will very frequently tangent to varying levels of comic book geekdom. A lot of these posts will be varying hypotheses about whether certain elements in the TV show are intended to parallel those in the comics, as the posts about this week's episode demonstrate.

If you don't care that much about the comics, it's OK to just roll on by most of these posts and just post your own thoughts and opinions that deal only with the TV show. Or, just ask what people are talking about - you'll find that comic book geeks on the whole are more than willing to explain (sometimes in far too much detail!) all sorts of stuff from that "version" of the universe.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Marvel Cinematic Universe, much like the Marvel comic book universe, is a huge, sprawling place; no individual piece is an island of itself. Each TV show and movie has all sorts of connections to everything else, and people enjoy trying to figure out what those connections are, kind of like putting a puzzle together (and guessing what the picture might be, before you have all the pieces).

For example, the discussion above about Black Widow/Romanoff; that's both a discussion about the comics, as well as a discussion about the connections between this show and Natasha Romanoff, a character we saw in Captain America: The Winter Soldier and in The Avengers (played by Scarlett Johansson). They are theorizing that Dottie, the very agile blonde who lives down the hall from Agent Carter, might have some sort of a connection to Natasha Romanoff.

Again, if you don't really care about any of that stuff, no worries, just feel free to read along and post whatever you find interesting about the episode!


----------



## Ereth

stellie93 said:


> I guess there are probably very few people like me with absolutely no knowledge of this universe. But the show still works, so I'll keep watching. I doubt there are enough of us to support a separate thread. No problem. :up:


For the record, I LOVE the show. I think I might like it better than Agents of SHIELD, to be honest.

I'll confess to a bit of bias... my mother was a WAVE, in the 1950s, not 1940s, but when she became pregnant with me, the US Navy REQUIRED her to get out of the service. It wasn't optional, it was mandatory. The attitudes towards women were not much different. My mother was a strong, independent woman who had her career taken away from her because of her gender. She never complained (at least not where I would hear) but she was fiercely proud of her service and maintained affiliation with various Womens Auxiliary and WAVE Reunion groups right up until her death. So much so that it was actually an issue between her and my father at one point.

So, though I'm not a woman, and women were prohibited from the particular job I had in the Navy even up until the 1990s, I can appreciate Carters reality here, because I saw it through the lens of my mothers eyes.


----------



## stevel

I am almost completely unfamiliar with the comics and have seen only a couple of the movies. But I love this show and Agents of SHIELD. The comics-related conversations I find interesting as background.


----------



## DevdogAZ

stellie93 said:


> This thread is funny. Instead of "wow, I wonder what the deal is with the superhuman dumb blonde." there's the last 10 posts which mean nothing to me. I came here expecting to see comments on last night's episode, but there really aren't any. I guess I'll give up on it.


I definitely would like to read some discussion about the girl in the room next to Peggy's. I can't tell all the other girls in that building apart. Was that the girl who encouraged Peggy to move into that building in the first place?



stellie93 said:


> I guess there are probably very few people like me with absolutely no knowledge of this universe. But the show still works, so I'll keep watching. I doubt there are enough of us to support a separate thread. No problem. :up:


I've never read any comics, I haven't seen either Captain America movie, and I only watched the pilot episode of SHIELD. But I'm really enjoy this show so far.


----------



## cmontyburns

DevdogAZ said:


> I definitely would like to read some discussion about the girl in the room next to Peggy's. I can't tell all the other girls in that building apart. Was that the girl who encouraged Peggy to move into that building in the first place?


Not sure which apartment you're referring to. But the girl who encouraged Peggy to move in is the waitress from the automat that Peggy goes to. She's got brown hair. The other girl we're now keeping an eye on is Dottie, who lives on the other side of Peggy, and who took out the bad guy acrobatically in this last episode.


----------



## busyba

cmontyburns said:


> Not sure which apartment you're referring to. But the girl who encouraged Peggy to move in is the waitress from the automat that Peggy goes to. She's got brown hair. The other girl we're now keeping an eye on is Dottie, who lives on the other side of Peggy, and who took out the bad guy acrobatically in this last episode.


Also, she moved in _after_ Peggy did. There was a brief scene where the landlady introduced her to Peggy in the episode where the SSR agent got killed.

The fact that she was introduced in the same episode where a mysterious shadowy figure entered the game is one of the reasons people assumed that they were the same person. Her acrobatic dispatching of Mr. Mink seems to confirm that.


----------



## dianebrat

:down:
ABC's marketing department has clearly no interest in making anything a surprise for viewers, the promo for the 02/03 episode flat out gives huge swaths of information that we've all been discussing leaving almost nothing to the imagination.

I get wanting to entice viewers, but I have never seen a promo so spoiler-laden.
I'll still enjoy the heck out of the episode, but wow, seriously, wow..


----------



## cmontyburns

Then I'm glad I have not seen it!

While I hate the practice of tattling promos generally, I'll offer a mild defense of ABC in this case. The show is not getting good ratings, and no doubt they are hoping to juice the numbers a bit for the final episodes.


----------



## Bierboy

dianebrat said:


> :down:
> ABC's marketing department has clearly no interest in making anything a surprise for viewers, the promo for the 02/03 episode flat out gives huge swaths of information that we've all been discussing leaving almost nothing to the imagination.
> 
> I get wanting to entice viewers, but I have never seen a promo so spoiler-laden.
> I'll still enjoy the heck out of the episode, but wow, seriously, wow..


Hmmm...I'm assuming we all have TiVos, so why would we watch promos? I do watch some "live" programming, but it's primarily sports (tho even that is often time-shifted). If I see anything that resembles a promo of a show I watch, I instantly mute and turn my eyes away. It's not that difficult to avoid them...


----------



## DevdogAZ

dianebrat said:


> :down:
> ABC's marketing department has clearly no interest in making anything a surprise for viewers, the promo for the 02/03 episode flat out gives huge swaths of information that we've all been discussing leaving almost nothing to the imagination.
> 
> I get wanting to entice viewers, but I have never seen a promo so spoiler-laden.
> I'll still enjoy the heck out of the episode, but wow, seriously, wow..


I think it's kind of ironic that you're complaining about ABC's promo department giving away "information that we've all been discussing."


----------



## Hunter Green

There's a big difference between speculation and confirmation.


----------



## cheesesteak

Ereth said:


> For the record, I LOVE the show. I think I might like it better than Agents of SHIELD, to be honest.


This show *is* better than Agents Of SHIELD.


----------



## Stormspace

We were shown the Black Widow Project, they just didn't name it exactly. I wonder if the wild child left behind was Natasha.


----------



## LoadStar

cheesesteak said:


> This show *is* better than Agents Of SHIELD.


I disagree. I think the *idea* of the show is good, but I think the execution is poor.

I still think that the majority of the characters are woefully underdeveloped and for the most part interchangeable sexist cliches (even if that cliche may be accurate for the time). Even the characters that aren't sexist cliches, including major characters like Jarvis and Stark, are fairly one-dimensional.

My opinion also hasn't changed that because the majority of the action on the show occurs at night, the dim lighting making all the action on the show very murky.

Frankly, for me, the episodes have all seemed to blur together; there really isn't anything about any of the episodes that I've seen (haven't seen last night's episode) that stands out for me. I actually find the show rather dull.

Agents of SHIELD remains a superior show in my book. It's far more colorful, far more dynamic, the action much more interesting, and I find all of the characters much more three-dimensional.


----------



## markp99

^^ Yep, all of this for me too.


----------



## NorthAlabama

LoadStar said:


> I still think that the majority of the characters are woefully underdeveloped and for the most part interchangeable sexist cliches...including major characters like Jarvis and Stark, are fairly one-dimensional.
> 
> ...the dim lighting making all the action on the show very murky.
> 
> ...I actually find the show rather dull.
> 
> Agents of SHIELD remains a superior show in my book.


i caught myself dozing off 8 separate times watching last nights ep (had to rwd and regroup each time), and i had high hopes agent carter would become a series.


----------



## Ereth

The Howling Commandos were on screen and you dozed off? I LOVED last nights episode.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

I like Agent Carter. It's a nice way to fill the time before the main event comes back.


----------



## Stormspace

LoadStar said:


> I disagree. I think the *idea* of the show is good, but I think the execution is poor.
> 
> I still think that the majority of the characters are woefully underdeveloped and for the most part interchangeable sexist cliches (even if that cliche may be accurate for the time). Even the characters that aren't sexist cliches, including major characters like Jarvis and Stark, are fairly one-dimensional.
> 
> My opinion also hasn't changed that because the majority of the action on the show occurs at night, the dim lighting making all the action on the show very murky.
> 
> Frankly, for me, the episodes have all seemed to blur together; there really isn't anything about any of the episodes that I've seen (haven't seen last night's episode) that stands out for me. I actually find the show rather dull.
> 
> Agents of SHIELD remains a superior show in my book. It's far more colorful, far more dynamic, the action much more interesting, and I find all of the characters much more three-dimensional.


Well. It's a mini series and not a show, so I think of it as one long ass movie. As for AoS I think they've drawn out things a little too slowly at times making the show dull. This and an insistence that super humans don't exist. We should be seeing reports of Superheroes in the public, even if they aren't the anchor characters for Marvel.

In AoS I'd like to see them operating the background while the heroes zip by or something. Maybe Ironman stomping on a baddie or some such for an instant while they continue the mission.


----------



## Win Joy Jr

Stormspace said:


> Well. It's a mini series and not a show, so I think of it as one long ass movie.


Regarding this:



Spoiler



The producers have not ruled out a season 2


----------



## hummingbird_206

Ereth said:


> The Howling Commandos were on screen and you dozed off? I LOVED last nights episode.


+1. I'd been hoping there would be more of them (in more eps), but I'll take that ep!

At least Dottie didn't find Cap's blood.

And that girl has got to Natasha...doesn't she?


----------



## LoadStar

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I like Agent Carter. It's a nice way to fill the time before the main event comes back.


I like it on that level as well. Perhaps if they don't do another run of Agent Carter next year, they'll stick with the idea and do another short-run Marvel comic series.


----------



## Unbeliever

hummingbird_206 said:


> And that girl has got to Natasha...doesn't she?


Considering the show is set in the late 40s, that would make that girl somewhere in her mid 80s today.

--Carlos "so no, not likely" V.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Unbeliever said:


> Considering the show is set in the late 40s, that would make that girl somewhere in her mid 80s today.
> 
> --Carlos "so no, not likely" V.


That's how old she is in the comics (a child during WWII)...

She took the Russian version of the drug that has kept Nick Fury alive and relatively youthful all these decades.


----------



## realityboy

LoadStar said:


> I like it on that level as well. Perhaps if they don't do another run of Agent Carter next year, they'll stick with the idea and do another short-run Marvel comic series.


I think Agent Sharon Carter would make the most sense thematically as a sequel, plus ABC might want to give Emily VanCamp another series if they cancel Revenge.


----------



## cheesesteak

Stormspace said:


> Well. It's a mini series and not a show, so I think of it as one long ass movie. As for AoS I think they've drawn out things a little too slowly at times making the show dull.


AoS is better now but the first season was mostly just plain dull and not very interesting. The main characters - Ward, May, Skye and Coulson were all low key, monotone speaking characters without much dynamic range. Peggy Carter, in a handful of episodes, is twice as interesting and fun than every character in AoS.


----------



## LoadStar

cheesesteak said:


> AoS is better now but the first season was mostly just plain dull and not very interesting. The main characters - Ward, May, Skye and Coulson were all low key, monotone speaking characters without much dynamic range. Peggy Carter, in a handful of episodes, is twice as interesting and fun than every character in AoS.


I disagree with... well, every single statement in this. But, eh, to each his own.


----------



## Jagman_sl

I wonder if Agent Carter is something that Netflix could pick up. They already have a major deal with Marvel, and when Agent Carter shows up on Netflix streaming those numbers might be good enough for them.


----------



## lpwcomp

Whomever wrote "The Iron Ceiling" knows nothing about about encryption. There is no way to decrypt a message encrypted using a one time pad unless you have access to the "pad".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Whoever wrote "Whomever wrote" knows nothing about about nominative vs. accusative case. 


(I suppose there is a correlation between Latin majors and Grammar Nazis?)


----------



## lpwcomp

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Whoever wrote "Whomever wrote" knows nothing about about nominative vs. accusative case.
> 
> (I suppose there is a correlation between Latin majors and Grammar Nazis?)


Yeah, small brain f**t there.

"Watch them words."
"Watch them grammar."


----------



## cheesesteak

LoadStar said:


> I disagree with... well, every single statement in this. But, eh, to each his own.


Yup. It's ok to disagree, even though you're wrong.


----------



## Stormspace

cheesesteak said:


> Yup. It's ok to disagree, even though you're wrong.


Agent Carter is all around better. Better lead, better story, clear purpose and plot, better looking leading lady, less angst, and better integrated into the Marvel universe. AoS is so far just shoe horned in with few, if any connections to other bits in the Marvel universe. AoS is a Marvel property designed as if Shield operates in a vacuum. The son of Coul rarely if ever refers to things that happened in the movies, characters portrayed in them, and refuses to acknowledge the presence of super humans even though they are parading around in public almost daily. Even if the names and properties are protected via contract they could still work out some way of mentioning them.

As a example while "spiderman" might be forbidden to mention specifically, he could be mentioned in general terms "masked vigilante" with an affinity to arachnids, etc. "Why don't we go after him? Ironman thought he'd be a good avenger."

There are other characters that they haven't sold off that could be mentioned or seen as well. White Tiger, Black Panther, The fantastic four (Which operate publicly), Henry Pim, Janet van Dyne, or any number of other characters which aren't of the blockbuster variety.

In essence AoS could have been an opportunity to highlight some of these lesser known heroes, in a guest appearance, or possibly in a freak of the week scenario if nothing else. As it is they are taking us down a path leading towards a group of people that have really very little written about them and the general public knows almost nothing about, the Inhumans. It's also more than a little annoying that the Hydra subplot has gone on as long as it has. It's time to mend that and get back to being SHIELD again.

I think they've made the plot so convoluted that it's hard to follow if you don't have a solid knowledge of the Marvel universe. I don't mean the cinematic universe either because it's clear they are hardly using any of that material to drawn upon.

I'm currently only watching because I'm a comic book junkie and I continue to hope the show will turn around.


----------



## Ereth

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's how old she is in the comics (a child during WWII)...
> 
> She took the Russian version of the drug that has kept Nick Fury alive and relatively youthful all these decades.


It's hard to reconcile that with her calling Steve Rogers a fossil, though. I know you want it to be, but I absolutely do not want it to be Romanov.

The comics had to deal with Cap coming out of the ice in the 1960s and still being young and sprite in 2000. The movies avoid that by moving everything to more modern times, so there's no need for "anti-aging serum".

We'll have to wait and see which way the MCU goes, obviously, but I hope you are wrong in your theory.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Ereth said:


> I know you want it to be, but I absolutely do not want it to be Romanov.


Strange that you know that, since it's not at all true.

All I've ever done is point out what's in the comics...


----------



## LoadStar

Stormspace said:


> There are other characters that they haven't sold off that could be mentioned or seen as well. White Tiger, Black Panther, The fantastic four (Which operate publicly), Henry Pim, Janet van Dyne, or any number of other characters which aren't of the blockbuster variety.


Black Panther = will be in the Black Panther movie
Fantastic Four = 20th Century FOX
Henry Pim = will be in the Ant-Man movie
Janet van Dyne = related to the Ant-Man movie (although not slated to appear)



> In essence AoS could have been an opportunity to highlight some of these lesser known heroes, in a guest appearance, or possibly in a freak of the week scenario if nothing else. As it is they are taking us down a path leading towards a group of people that have really very little written about them and the general public knows almost nothing about, the Inhumans. It's also more than a little annoying that the Hydra subplot has gone on as long as it has. It's time to mend that and get back to being SHIELD again.


So... you want them to focus on "lesser known heroes" but criticize them for focusing on the Inhumans, because they're lesser known heroes. 

Besides, so far in AoS, we've seen a TON of superheroes or related items. They can't do much more without turning it into a show ABOUT a superhero, which is *not* what the show is.



> I think they've made the plot so convoluted that it's hard to follow if you don't have a solid knowledge of the Marvel universe. I don't mean the cinematic universe either because it's clear they are hardly using any of that material to drawn upon.


I don't think there's anything "convoluted" about AoS. Again,


----------



## Ereth

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Strange that you know that, since it's not at all true.
> 
> All I've ever done is point out what's in the comics...


My mistake then. Since you kept bringing it up, I thought you believed it to be true in the MCU as well, or were at least hoping for it. My apologies.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Ereth said:


> My mistake then. Since you kept bringing it up, I thought you believed it to be true in the MCU as well, or were at least hoping for it. My apologies.


Nope, I've just been responding to people saying it can't be Natasha because it's WWII. It could be...I doubt it is, but it could be.

(Apparently, we learn a lot more about Natasha in Ultron. It will be interesting to see how they play it.)


----------



## DevdogAZ

lpwcomp said:


> Whomever wrote "The Iron Ceiling" knows nothing about about encryption. There is no way to decrypt a message encrypted using a one time pad unless you have access to the "pad".


Totally agree. That was a completely ridiculous scene. She says the encryption was made using the most unbreakable cipher available at the time, then proceeds to read the message as if it were written in plain English. Even if she had the pad and could decipher the message, she wouldn't be able to do it as fast as she could read. It would be a tedious, one-letter-at-a-time process.


----------



## Stormspace

DevdogAZ said:


> Totally agree. That was a completely ridiculous scene. She says the encryption was made using the most unbreakable cipher available at the time, then proceeds to read the message as if it were written in plain English. Even if she had the pad and could decipher the message, she wouldn't be able to do it as fast as she could read. It would be a tedious, one-letter-at-a-time process.


Wouldn't the most unbreakable at the time have been Enigma? Or was it a Russian cypher? They've been mixing it up with Nazi's and Soviets so much I think I've lost track. If it was a Soviet cypher Carter could have been familiar with it since Enigma was the only code during WW2 that required machinery to decrypt.


----------



## aaronwt

lpwcomp said:


> Whomever wrote "The Iron Ceiling" knows nothing about about encryption. There is no way to decrypt a message encrypted using a one time pad unless you have access to the "pad".


You do realize it's a TV show right? TV has never followed the rules of the real world because it just isn't real. It never has been and never will be. You can pick apart every TV show because they all take liberties like with the encryption. I know this was the case when I watched TV forty years ago. And it is still the case today.


----------



## NJChris

I'm enjoying Agent Carter, but it's nowhere close to being as good as AoS has been since the 2nd half of the 1st season.

Agent Carter is fun, but it feels very drawn out to fit into a miniseries. 

And did I miss something when Stark was kidnapped? All of a sudden they are rescuing him....

(I didn't read this whole thread so if it's in there, SORRY!  )


----------



## Stormspace

LoadStar said:


> So... you want them to focus on "lesser known heroes" but criticize them for focusing on the Inhumans, because they're lesser known heroes.
> 
> Besides, so far in AoS, we've seen a TON of superheroes or related items. They can't do much more without turning it into a show ABOUT a superhero, which is *not* what the show is.
> 
> I don't think there's anything "convoluted" about AoS. Again,


Yeah, but the Inhumans are lame. 

Skye isn't a superhero? So far the show has focused solely on her as a mystery arc for the entire series. It may have started with the Son of Coul but that was only to segway to Skye.

I do think the shows plot is convoluted and unfocused, though I think it's found a better direction this past season. I prefer the format in Carter than in AoS, that's all.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

aaronwt said:


> You do realize it's a TV show right? TV has never followed the rules of the real world because it just isn't real. It never has been and never will be. You can pick apart every TV show because they all take liberties like with the encryption. I know this was the case when I watched TV forty years ago. And it is still the case today.


E.g., the recent Alan Turing movie, where the genius Turing broke the code by


Spoiler



realizing that all the messages started "Heil Hitler." As if nobody in the entire history of the program had ever looked at the decoded messages and realized that before, not being geniuses like Turing.


----------



## lpwcomp

Stormspace said:


> Wouldn't the most unbreakable at the time have been Enigma? Or was it a Russian cypher? They've been mixing it up with Nazi's and Soviets so much I think I've lost track. If it was a Soviet cypher Carter could have been familiar with it since Enigma was the only code during WW2 that required machinery to decrypt.


No, Enigma was far more vulnerable, once you had an Enigma machine.

A true one time pad is just what the name implies - it is used _*one time*_. You simply cannot decrypt it unless you have the "pad".


----------



## alpacaboy

Rob Helmerichs said:


> E.g., the recent Alan Turing movie, where the genius Turing broke the code by
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> realizing that all the messages started "Heil Hitler." As if nobody in the entire history of the program had ever looked at the decoded messages and realized that before, not being geniuses like Turing.


There was a recent Security Now podcast where Steve Gibson went over it in detail. Not a correction, but more elaboration just because I thought it was cool.


Spoiler



It was that and along with a fundamental weakness in the design of the machine, which was no letter could map to itself, which could cut down the permutations. There was one disk at the end which would reflect back through the wheels and in that wheel instead of having 2 disks with a map of 26 wired to another 26, there was a single disk that had 13 wires connecting on itself.

(nitpick)I think they actually ended the messages with "Heil Hitler" and began the messages with the day's weather, so they had additional letters(the German for "Weather Report 1200" or something like that - and I think Steve Gibson said the Germans were actually very punctual, so the numbers were actually pretty consistent too) to work with.

Those two working together could eliminate any combination of the wheels and plugs that mapped the last letter from R to R, and any combo that mapped the second to last letter from E to E, third last L to L, etc.

I don't know how much of that they covered in the film.


----------



## Stormspace

alpacaboy said:


> There was a recent Security Now podcast where Steve Gibson went over it in detail. Not a correction, but more elaboration just because I thought it was cool.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It was that and along with a fundamental weakness in the design of the machine, which was no letter could map to itself, which could cut down the permutations. There was one disk at the end which would reflect back through the wheels and in that wheel instead of having 2 disks with a map of 26 wired to another 26, there was a single disk that had 13 wires connecting on itself.
> 
> (nitpick)I think they actually ended the messages with "Heil Hitler" and began the messages with the day's weather, so they had additional letters(the German for "Weather Report 1200" or something like that - and I think Steve Gibson said the Germans were actually very punctual, so the numbers were actually pretty consistent too) to work with.
> 
> Those two working together could eliminate any combination of the wheels and plugs that mapped the last letter from R to R, and any combo that mapped the second to last letter from E to E, third last L to L, etc.
> 
> I don't know how much of that they covered in the film.





Spoiler



Saw the movie. They didn't mention any of that, including the letters not being able to map to themselves. Having the machine was critical to decyphering the code since the BOMBE only returned the settings that the enigma machine needed to use.


----------



## cmontyburns

NJChris said:


> And did I miss something when Stark was kidnapped? All of a sudden they are rescuing him....


It wasn't a rescue mission. The SSR was under the impression that Stark was selling weapons to the Russians and that the deal was going down at the place they raided.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Stormspace said:


> Wouldn't the most unbreakable at the time have been Enigma? Or was it a Russian cypher? They've been mixing it up with Nazi's and Soviets so much I think I've lost track. If it was a Soviet cypher Carter could have been familiar with it since Enigma was the only code during WW2 that required machinery to decrypt.


Enigma was breakable because it followed a pattern. One-time pads are extremely cumbersome and virtually unbreakable because they don't follow any pattern. They are based on the two communicating parties having an identical copy of a pad of paper filled with random letters. On the sending end, they use a certain pre-arranged sheet to encode the message, then they destroy that sheet. On the receiving end, the message is decoded using the pre-arranged sheet and then that sheet is destroyed. If done properly, those were the only two sheets containing that sequence of random letters in the entire world, and without them, the message is unbreakable.



aaronwt said:


> You do realize it's a TV show right? TV has never followed the rules of the real world because it just isn't real. It never has been and never will be. You can pick apart every TV show because they all take liberties like with the encryption. I know this was the case when I watched TV forty years ago. And it is still the case today.


Of course there's always stuff on TV that's unrealistic. But it's frustrating when writers use words and phrases without knowing what they mean, so that when a character speaks a phrase and then does something completely opposite of what that phrase meant, it's clear that the writer had no idea what s/he was writing about. I don't mind when unrealistic things happen in TV if those unrealistic things are necessary to drive the plot, such as:

-Character A never tells something to Character B because the suspense of the plot is derived from Character B not knowing
-Lawyers filing a case one day and appearing in court the next, because a TV show would be extremely boring if it depicted the real wait of 1-2 years or more.
-Medical examiners getting forensic results back to the detectives within hours, when most jurisdictions have a backlog of several weeks/months, because that drives the plot.
-Cars exploding on impact because it looks cool and makes the show more visually interesting, etc.

But when a writer uses a term like "one-time pad" just to make the script sound cool and then the character speaks it and does something completely unrelated to that phrase, it takes the viewer out of the scene because it points out to the viewer that the writer was lazy and used a phrase that s/he didn't know the meaning of, and thus the scene plays like it was written by a moron. That kind of unrealistic stuff isn't necessary to drive the plot and just makes clear that the people producing the show aren't very good at their jobs.


----------



## Ereth

Rob Helmerichs said:


> E.g., the recent Alan Turing movie, where the genius Turing broke the code by
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> realizing that all the messages started "Heil Hitler." As if nobody in the entire history of the program had ever looked at the decoded messages and realized that before, not being geniuses like Turing.


Sometimes reality has gaping plot holes that we wouldn't accept in fiction.


----------



## lpwcomp

I have no problem with willing suspension of disbelief. I do have a problem with completely turning my brain off.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Ereth said:


> Sometimes reality has gaping plot holes that we wouldn't accept in fiction.


I suspect this was a case of reality being dumbed down so A) people would understand it, B) it would fit in a two-hour movie, or C) all of the above. because as it was presented in the movie, it was a very simple and obvious solution.


----------



## Ereth

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I suspect this was a case of reality being dumbed down so A) people would understand it, B) it would fit in a two-hour movie, or C) all of the above. because as it was presented in the movie, it was a very simple and obvious solution.


Enigma is actually a series of machines. The early Enigma was broken in 1932 by the Polish Cypher Bureau. A polish mathematician worked out differences between the commercial Enigma you could buy, and the one the military used. You want to talk about plot holes you wouldn't accept now? The original messages encoded the key itself twice, in order, which meant that the first three letters of the message and the second three letters of the message always decoded to the same thing. This was a huge help to the codebreakers. The Germans actually included the rotor settings in the message itself as a sort of checksum. If you decoded the first 6 characters and they didn't match todays rotor settings, twice, you knew the message was corrupted. When the war started, they changed that (remember Turings comment that Hitler ordered the messages to always begin with a random string?) but in the early days it was a huge help towards breaking it and understanding how it worked. (The germans also wired the connections between the first ring and the keyboard in alphabetical order, simplifying things dramatically).

These are things we would complain about today, but it was early days in cryptography. The Germans thought the wheel combination would make it unbreakable, didn't have to make it more complex than that by adding additional layers of encryption.

The Poles built a machine that would decrypt Enigma, but the Germans changed the device in 1937 and their machine no longer worked.

The Germans changed the number of rotors, changed the number of leads connected, they were constantly changing it. And then they had operators do silly things that gave hints to the codebreakers as to how to solve them.

And the codebreakers most definitely used patterns, such as that described in the movie. No, Turing wasn't the only one to notice them (and in the movie, he's NOT the one who noticed them, that information is given to him).



Wikipedia said:


> Repeatedly using the same stereotypical expressions in messages, an early example of what Bletchley Park would later term cribs. Rejewski wrote that "... we relied on the fact that the greater number of messages began with the letters ANXGerman for "to", followed by X as a spacer"


Most of the early success depended upon repetition. Turings efforts were in finding solutions that would work once the Germans wised up and stopped duplicating their keys.

So, yeah, it's movie-fied because showing the various stops and starts and the very complex process once the bombe even stopped (which gave one of several possible solutions, not always "the" solution as they show in the movie). The machine reduced the possible values to a "manageable number", it didn't outright solve the problem for you. It made it possible to solve the problem.


----------



## Bierboy

Not much hope this will last beyond its "limited run" TV By the Numbers indicates the ratings have dropped precipitously each week now to the point that it won't return in any form...


----------



## zordude

Bierboy said:


> Not much hope this will last beyond its "limited run" TV By the Numbers indicates the ratings have dropped precipitously each week now to the point that it won't return in any form...


I think it can be tough to use traditional methods to estimate if something is going to be cancelled when it is a piece of a larger overall vision like the "Marvel Television Universe", especially when the tv network is owned by the same parent company.


----------



## Bierboy

zordude said:


> I think it can be tough to use traditional methods to estimate if something is going to be cancelled when it is a piece of a _*larger overall vision like the "Marvel Television Universe"*_, especially when the tv network is owned by the same parent company.


Huh?


----------



## zordude

Bierboy said:


> Huh?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_television_series


----------



## Bierboy

zordude said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_television_series


Oh...if that's what they call it on Wiki, then it must be true....


----------



## LoadStar

Bierboy said:


> Huh?


I think he's trying to say that each individual Marvel "item" is a piece of the much larger "Marvel Cinematic Universe" marketing ecosystem. Whether or not a particular series gets renewed or canceled may be based on decisions _other_ than ratings. For example, they may know that they need certain story "Agent Carter" story ideas to be presented in order to further other parts of the MCU universe.

(I personally this is a bit of grasping at straw. Writers can adapt and modify the larger storyline to include/remove things to reflect changes in the business/marketing end of things.)


----------



## DevdogAZ

LoadStar said:


> I think he's trying to say that each individual Marvel "item" is a piece of the much larger "Marvel Cinematic Universe" marketing ecosystem. Whether or not a particular series gets renewed or canceled may be based on decisions other than ratings. For example, they may know that they need certain story "Agent Carter" story ideas to be presented in order to further other parts of the MCU universe.
> 
> (I personally this is a bit of grasping at straw. Writers can adapt and modify the larger storyline to include/remove things to reflect changes in the business/marketing end of things.)


I think it's less about whether they need to use Show A to set up stories for Show B or Movie C, and more about the fact that ABC knows that Marvel is a popular property and they want to be in the Marvel business. If they're choosing between another 8-10 eps of a second season for Agent Carter or greenlighting some new, unrelated drama pilot, they have a much greater chance of making their money back with the Marvel show than with something else.


----------



## LoadStar

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it's less about whether they need to use Show A to set up stories for Show B or Movie C, and more about the fact that ABC knows that Marvel is a popular property and they want to be in the Marvel business. If they're choosing between another 8-10 eps of a second season for Agent Carter or greenlighting some new, unrelated drama pilot, they have a much greater chance of making their money back with the Marvel show than with something else.


If it were just that, then they'd definitely cancel Agent Carter after this season and see if there were another Marvel property they could try for the next run.


----------



## cmontyburns

For that matter, it's not like Agents of SHIELD is a ratings success. It's not even the highest-rated superhero (/-adjacent) show on the air.


----------



## Stormspace

cmontyburns said:


> For that matter, it's not like Agents of SHIELD is a ratings success. It's not even the highest-rated superhero (/-adjacent) show on the air.


It's the only Marvel property though and with Arrow, Gotham, and Flash all on the air and apparently doing well enough to stay there, I think it's clear that keeping AoS on the air is important. I think it's likely that the new Marvel shows debuting on Netflix will eventually end up on broadcast TV if they do well enough. Essentially using Netflix to preflight the show to gauge audience response before taking the more popular one and moving it to traditional airings.


----------



## cmontyburns

Stormspace said:


> I think it's likely that the new Marvel shows debuting on Netflix will eventually end up on broadcast TV if they do well enough.


This part I highly doubt.


----------



## DevdogAZ

cmontyburns said:


> This part I highly doubt.


Agreed. It's not like Netflix is the minor leagues and the broadcast networks can "call up" a show that's doing well on Netflix. All these companies are trying to create and own content, and whatever Netflix has licensed will remain a Netflix property for as long as the contract calls for.


----------



## cmontyburns

I'm continuing to really enjoy this series. I like SHIELD enough at this point, although I don't think I'd miss it if it never came back, and certainly not if Agent Carter took its place longer-term. (Which, of course, will not happen).

This was another good episode. Since this is not explicitly a spoiler thread, I'll not discuss specific developments except to say I like how the plot has been building, and where Peggy ended up as this hour concluded. The episode had a bit too much of the psychiatrist, but that was really the only part I was remotely impatient with. 

As an aside, for viewers who also watch Jane the Virgin, have you recognized that the actress who plays Dottie here plays Rose on that show? Quite a coup for her to have scored two important roles at the same time.


----------



## justen_m

cmontyburns said:


> This was another good episode...
> 
> As an aside, for viewers who also watch Jane the Virgin, have you recognized that the actress who plays Dottie here plays Rose on that show? Quite a coup for her to have scored two important roles at the same time.


I think this is the most arse-kicking we've seen Carter do so far, isn't it?

It took me a few scenes to recognize Dottie, despite seeing Bridget Regan's name in the credits. I most recently saw her in White Collar. It also took me more than one episode to recognize Lyndsy Fonseca as waitress Angie. Both have completely different hair, makeup, etc.


----------



## DevdogAZ

I also didn't recognize Bridget Regan until a couple episodes after she appeared, and didn't realize that was Lyndsey Fonseca until just now when reading cmonty's post. Surprising how much someone's appearance can change with just a new hairstyle and some period clothing.

I had two non-spoilery comments about the most recent episode:

1 Peggy was wearing pants around town. I thought pants for a woman in 1946 was still pretty much unheard of, especially for a woman supposedly going to work as a telephone operator. 

2. I think it's funny, and pretty careless of Peggy, when she meets with Jarvis at the diner and they sit back-to-back to try and make it seem that they're not actually meeting with each other, but then they both turn their heads and make it extremely obvious they're having a conversation. They may as well sit at the same booth since they're not fooling anyone and what they're doing actually looks more suspicious.


----------



## cmontyburns

DevdogAZ said:


> I also didn't recognize Bridget Regan until a couple episodes after she appeared, and didn't realize that was Lyndsey Fonseca until just now when reading cmonty's post. Surprising how much someone's appearance can change with just a new hairstyle and some period clothing.
> 
> I had two non-spoilery comments about the most recent episode:
> 
> 1 Peggy was wearing pants around town. I thought pants for a woman in 1946 was still pretty much unheard of, especially for a woman supposedly going to work as a telephone operator.
> 
> 2. I think it's funny, and pretty careless of Peggy, when she meets with Jarvis at the diner and they sit back-to-back to try and make it seem that they're not actually meeting with each other, but then they both turn their heads and make it extremely obvious they're having a conversation. They may as well sit at the same booth since they're not fooling anyone and what they're doing actually looks more suspicious.


Ha, I thought both of those things as well during the episode!

I've not been familiar with Bridget Regan before Agent Carter and Jane the Virgin. Since some of you seem familiar with her, I take it she's been in other things with some prominence. I'll have to look her up. Does she kiss women in all her roles?


----------



## Stormspace

DevdogAZ said:


> I also didn't recognize Bridget Regan until a couple episodes after she appeared, and didn't realize that was Lyndsey Fonseca until just now when reading cmonty's post. Surprising how much someone's appearance can change with just a new hairstyle and some period clothing.
> 
> I had two non-spoilery comments about the most recent episode:
> 
> 1 Peggy was wearing pants around town. I thought pants for a woman in 1946 was still pretty much unheard of, especially for a woman supposedly going to work as a telephone operator.
> 
> 2. I think it's funny, and pretty careless of Peggy, when she meets with Jarvis at the diner and they sit back-to-back to try and make it seem that they're not actually meeting with each other, but then they both turn their heads and make it extremely obvious they're having a conversation. They may as well sit at the same booth since they're not fooling anyone and what they're doing actually looks more suspicious.


There are quite a few holes you have to ignore.

Like how Peggy is allowed to come and go as she does when she's the one doing most of the filing and coffee fetching. You'd think she'd be missed. We saw the one time she had to duck out and took a female day, but all the other days we've seen no similar excuses.

A 10 O'clock curfew at the Griffen and she routinely arrives after that with no questions.

Some one in the building who was very discrete sneaks a man into the building and is busted. Peggy sneaks stark in, he practically visits all the women on the floor but isn't caught and no repercussions for Peggy.

I've been able to successfully ignore those because the rest of the story is so good. But, with fighting skills like she has, you'd think that was in her file.


----------



## Bierboy

SP and eps not yet watched all deleted...


----------



## cmontyburns

Your loss.


----------



## dianebrat

Bierboy said:


> SP and eps not yet watched all deleted...





cmontyburns said:


> Your loss.


Pretty much my thinking, this has been one of the highlights of the season for me, every episode has been a fun romp and Hayley Atwell is just a joy to watch, and her enthusiasm in her tweets is infectious.


----------



## wprager

She tweets? I'll have to get right on it!

Just watched the latest episode. Moving along very quickly. Those of you bickering about the back-to-back restaurant scene, come on! The waitress (Dottie?) was already on to them.


----------



## cheesesteak

dianebrat said:


> Pretty much my thinking, this has been one of the highlights of the season for me, every episode has been a fun romp and Hayley Atwell is just a joy to watch...


This is my feeling as well. Agent Carter may not be a better show than AoS (I think it is) but it's much more enjoyable to watch and Haley Atwell blows the doors off of every AoS actor in terms of charisma.


----------



## gossamer88

Yeah she has that rare quality. She's sweet, sexy and makes you think she can really kick your butt!


----------



## dianebrat

wprager said:


> She tweets? I'll have to get right on it!
> 
> Just watched the latest episode. Moving along very quickly. Those of you bickering about the back-to-back restaurant scene, come on! The waitress (Dottie?) was already on to them.


Dottie is the Russian Spy, Angela is the waitress. 

Hayley's tweets were absolutely hilarious when they were in production, there were usually "accident reports" and her apologizing to her stunt people for hurting them since she's not exactly a delicate flower and was trying to do as many of her own stunts as possible.


----------



## trainman

DevdogAZ said:


> I had two non-spoilery comments about the most recent episode:
> 
> 1 Peggy was wearing pants around town. I thought pants for a woman in 1946 was still pretty much unheard of, especially for a woman supposedly going to work as a telephone operator.


There was an even "better" anachronism in the episode...



Spoiler



The list of women's addresses included ZIP codes. ZIP codes were introduced in 1963.


----------



## dianebrat

trainman said:


> There was an even "better" anachronism in the episode...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The list of women's addresses included ZIP codes. ZIP codes were introduced in 1963.


GOOD CATCH! :up:
I'm usually the one to catch that one in period pieces.


----------



## wprager

I thought it was a great episode. Moved things right along. All the office boys now know that Peggy is not to be messed with. Peggy has a new ally in Angela (and something tells me she's not just an actress working as a waitress). And all the talk here is about women wearing pants in the 40s, how they were not at all inconspicuous when sitting back-to-back at the diner, and how zip codes were not invented yet. To borrow a phrase from Bill Shatner, "GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!"


----------



## DevdogAZ

wprager said:


> I thought it was a great episode. Moved things right along. All the office boys now know that Peggy is not to be messed with. Peggy has a new ally in Angela (and something tells me she's not just an actress working as a waitress). And all the talk here is about women wearing pants in the 40s, how they were not at all inconspicuous when sitting back-to-back at the diner, and how zip codes were not invented yet. To borrow a phrase from Bill Shatner, "GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!"


OK, then give us a topic related to the show for us to discuss. If all people can say is that they liked the show, these threads will only be 10 posts long and this forum will die.


----------



## wprager

OK, what is Dottie and the "bad fake Russian accent" guy's plan? Are they trying to infiltrate the SSR or something else? 

Dottie is certainly racking up kill points. Why kill the dentist just to get a message? 

What is Angie up to? I assume she is a "good guy" since Dottie is ba, but oh what a twist it would be if it was the other way around.

What's with Sousa? We know very little about him other than he's a lot like Carter -- undervalued by his co-workers while being a notch or two above them. Is he really injured or is that just a bad job of portraying someone with a prostheticleg (kinda like Frasier's dad -- I swear he limped on both legs from time to time).


----------



## wprager

And what's up with the Carmen St Diego hat?

EDIT: That was a weird auto correct. St Diego?


----------



## DevdogAZ

wprager said:


> Dottie is certainly racking up kill points. Why kill the dentist just to get a message?


I think she needed access to that particular vantage point so she could have the proper sight line to Eli Thompson's office. If it was just to get a message, she could have done that from virtually anywhere, but I think she wanted to have the right angle to take the shot if she determined that the psychiatrist was defecting and/or helping the SSR.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DevdogAZ said:


> I think she needed access to that particular vantage point so she could have the proper sight line to Eli Thompson's office. If it was just to get a message, she could have done that from virtually anywhere, but I think she wanted to have the right angle to take the shot if she determined that the psychiatrist was defecting and/or helping the SSR.


It was also important for her to be in that particular window so we would think she was going to shoot him.


----------



## hairyblue

I just started to watch this show. I managed to get through episode 2-6 from Hulu. I really like it. I think it's way better than Agents of Shield. I gave up on AoS last year.

I like the show because it's fun to watch. And the time period is also fun to see. It's different. The show has great dialogue and action. The characters are interesting.

So this show is going to have how many episodes? I fear it's going to go away soon, now that I found it.


----------



## cmontyburns

hairyblue said:


> So this show is going to have how many episodes? I fear it's going to go away soon, now that I found it.


It's a limited-run series of 8 episodes. There are two left. So yes, it's going away soon. Thanks a lot.


----------



## LoadStar

hairyblue said:


> I just started to watch this show. I managed to get through episode 2-6 from Hulu. I really like it. I think it's way better than Agents of Shield. I gave up on AoS last year.


You gave up too soon.


----------



## dianebrat

wprager said:


> I thought it was a great episode. Moved things right along. All the office boys now know that Peggy is not to be messed with. Peggy has a new ally in Angela (and something tells me she's not just an actress working as a waitress). And all the talk here is about women wearing pants in the 40s, how they were not at all inconspicuous when sitting back-to-back at the diner, and *how zip codes were not invented yet*. To borrow a phrase from Bill Shatner, "GET A LIFE, will you people?* I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!*"


FWIW I'm not being at all critical of the ZIP code thing, I enjoyed the fact that they missed it, clearly a young group of writers, this is going to happen more and more as folks stop bothering to pay attention to history.

The one I'm predicting being a common anachronism in the future will be period pieces where you all of a sudden see an LED traffic light since around me most municipalities have moved over.


----------



## LoadStar

Ok, I'm current on the series now. The last couple of episodes have improved things somewhat, but far too far into the series, and I'm still not nearly as impressed by the series as many of you are.

I was glad to see some of the supporting characters develop a least a little bit in the last few episodes, particularly the chief being willing to approach Jarvis and acknowledge that Stark may not be implicated in all this. That said, some of the character development in "The Iron Ceiling" (ep. 5) was immediately reversed in "A Sin to Err" (ep. 6).

I still find that much of my criticisms of the show haven't changed. For one, I ended up having to black out my room and pump up my TV's contrast to see any significant details in "The Iron Ceiling," as the episode was filmed so darkly. This show is also far from free of instances of sloppy writing or plot holes. (No show is, but it seems they're a bit more evident to me on this show than usual.)

I'm still watching, and enjoying to a degree, but I'll be glad to have AoS back next month.


----------



## wprager

I like shows that make me think. I enjoy AOS but, frankly, it's can be a lot more work than AC has been. It's quite true -- you can enjoy AC without thinking too much, but I'd never go as far as calling it fluff (Castle and Forever -- two shows we enjoy, mostly fall into the fluff category).


----------



## Generic

LoadStar said:


> You gave up too soon.


:up:


----------



## TheOneKEA

Last night's episode was great! The series is really building towards a big payoff; I hope they give us one.


----------



## cmontyburns

I had a bunch of thoughts on this one. Are we officially using this thread as a spoiler thread now? Should I post them here or start a new thread?


----------



## cheesesteak

cmontyburns said:


> I had a bunch of thoughts on this one. Are we officially using this thread as a spoiler thread now? Should I post them here or start a new thread?


I'd start a new thread.


----------



## john4200

cmontyburns said:


> I had a bunch of thoughts on this one. Are we officially using this thread as a spoiler thread now? Should I post them here or start a new thread?


You should definitely start a new thread. This one cannot have untagged spoilers unless someone gets a mod to change the subject.


----------



## cmontyburns

Agreed. Will start a new thread in a bit, when I have time to post my reaction to this episode along with.


----------



## wprager

Well, where is it?


----------



## lpwcomp

cheesesteak said:


> I'd start a new thread.


That being the case, why did you post an untagged spoiler?


----------



## cheesesteak

lpwcomp said:


> That being the case, why did you post an untagged spoiler?


It's gone.


----------



## lpwcomp

cheesesteak said:


> It's gone.


Too late for me. I saw it before I watched the episode.


----------



## TheOneKEA

And with that GIGANTIC end scene, a great episode caps off a great series.

I do agree with those who said that the second-to-last episode out some dents in Peggy's characterization, but this episode certainly restored them in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned her character remains intact and she amply proved, to herself and to the audience, that she is starting to move on and grasp the opportunities that someone of her intelligence and capability possesses. Frankly, I think the writers did a great job with the story, but Hayley Atwell did a STUPENDOUS job bringing that story to life and making it believable.

If ABC and Marvel don't at least pay lip service to renewing this series in some fashion, I for one will be disappointed, if for no other reason than that I enjoyed this group of actors and actresses quite a lot.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Well, they certainly didn't follow through on their promise to have the show end where the Peggy Carter short began! So they still have some work to do.

Get to it!


----------



## cmontyburns

Sounds like we need an episode-specific thread. Probably several things to discuss that we can't cover in this one.


----------



## Ereth

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, they certainly didn't follow through on their promise to have the show end where the Peggy Carter short began! So they still have some work to do.
> 
> Get to it!


I believe they said that the series would lead up to that, but they were hoping for a Season Two (or Three..) so they weren't in a rush to tie that up just yet.


----------



## alpacaboy

Overall, I enjoyed the series.

I was just a little disappointed that Angie


Spoiler



didn't kick anyone's ass. I have certain expectations after Nikita.


----------



## waynomo

I thought they wrapped up the show a bit quicker than they needed too. 

I have a question about Jarvis. 

I thought in the first episode they at least hinted that Jarvis was a double agent or at least working against Agent Carter. Am I mis-remembering?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

waynomo said:


> I thought they wrapped up the show a bit quicker than they needed too.


Well, considering they were only given eight episodes, I'm guessing they couldn't have drawn it out much longer...


----------



## DevdogAZ

waynomo said:


> I have a question about Jarvis.
> 
> I thought in the first episode they at least hinted that Jarvis was a double agent or at least working against Agent Carter. Am I mis-remembering?


I certainly don't remember that being implied. I think he was kind of secretive in the first episode because he was Howard Stark's butler and the SSR was looking for Stark, so Jarvis had to be very discreet in the way he approached Peggy and they had to keep their conversations on the down low, but I never got the impression he was working for anyone else.


----------



## wprager

Not sure how many of you have seen Broadchurch S2 (btw, it's been renewed for S3) but the actor who plays Jarvis has a very significant (and very different) role there. Sometimes hard to believe it's the same person.


----------



## Hoffer

I finished off this series over the weekend. I was really enjoying the show as it went on. I will say the last episode felt kinda flat.

I did some googling. Seems like the show did *not* do very good ratings wise. I couldn't find any article stating whether or not there would be a second season. People seem to assume there won't be, but it isn't official? Maybe I should read this thread, the post just above this one probably gives the answer. 

edit: I was missing a very important word above.


----------



## Amnesia

TV By the Numbers says that it's likely to be canceled...


----------



## Alfer

Ain't over till the fat lady sings!


----------



## unitron

But since the show is set in that whole Avengers/Agents of Shield Marvel Universe that Disney makes money off of and since Disney owns ABC, they might not be as demanding, ratings-wise, as they would of some other show that didn't help keep the Marvel fans happy.

Or so I hope.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> But since the show is set in that whole Avengers/Agents of Shield Marvel Universe that Disney makes money off of and since Disney owns ABC, they might not be as demanding, ratings-wise, as they would of some other show that didn't help keep the Marvel fans happy.
> 
> Or so I hope.


There's also the fact that it was very well received and a halo show that comes out for 10 episodes every other year might not be a bad move, just alternate it with another Marvel property in the alternate year.


----------



## osu1991

Can 'Agent Carter' Season 2 Live as a Modern-Day Continuation Starring Emily VanCamp?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2015/04/30/agent-carter-season-2-renewed/

An interesting idea.

Perhaps an 8-10 episode arc with Agent Peggy Carter in the late 1940's early 1950's followed by an 8-10 episode arc with Agent Sharon Carter in 2015.

Agent Carter was the only show that I actually watched the same day it aired, in quite a while. I would really like to see it return for another 8-10 episode story arc.


----------



## Graymalkin

ABC has renewed Agent Carter for a second season. Yay!


----------



## JYoung

Graymalkin said:


> ABC has renewed Agent Carter for a second season. Yay!


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/05/07/report-galavant-renewed-by-abc-for-second-season/400431/


----------



## Kamakzie

Graymalkin said:


> ABC has renewed Agent Carter for a second season. Yay!


yup http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/07/agent-carter-season-2


----------



## DevdogAZ

Excellent! That's awesome!


----------



## realityboy

Looks like the other SHIELD spinoff (with Mockingbird) has been abandoned. At least for now.


----------



## cmontyburns

realityboy said:


> Looks like the other SHIELD spinoff (with Mockingbird) has been abandoned. At least for now.


I'm interested in the details. Where did you see this?


----------



## Drewster

W00t!


----------



## Azlen

cmontyburns said:


> I'm interested in the details. Where did you see this?


http://deadline.com/2015/05/marvel-agents-of-shield-spinoff-dead-abc-1201422761/


----------



## cheesesteak

Yay!


----------



## Alfer

Good news. We really enjoy this show.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Agent Carter will again bridge the gap between the two halves of S.H.I.E.L.D., why the spinoff didn't move forward, and info about S2 of Agrnt Carter:

http://m.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/...didnt-happen-and-where-agent-carter-is-headed


----------



## vertigo235

AoS wasn't strong enough to have them cannibalize one of the good things about this season. I'm not surprised they didn't go ahead with the spin off, at least not yet. I'm sure it can be tabled for the future.


----------



## tvmaster2

I thought this was starting up in October - is it a January release date now, Season Two that is?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

tvmaster2 said:


> I thought this was starting up in October - is it a January release date now, Season Two that is?


I thought it was the same as Season 1...a mid-season fill-in for Agents of SHIELD.


----------



## LoadStar

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I thought it was the same as Season 1...a mid-season fill-in for Agents of SHIELD.


That's correct.


----------



## stevel

Agent Carter returns January 19.


----------



## tvmaster2

so, did anyone watch? I dvr'd it, but am behind....personally, I think she's great. I don't quite understand why it's ratings weren't better in season one. Is it the era that turns people off? Young folk can't get on board with a period piece?
Is there a way Marvel can hook her up with Doctor Who and the Tardis and get her in the now?


----------



## Ereth

I LOVE it.

I loved the "Tales to Astonish" reference, and also the symbol you'd only recognize if you've been watching "Agents of SHIELD".


----------



## BRiT wtfdotcom

I found Agent Carter way too dry and boring to watch more than 1.5 episodes. It did nothing to keep me interested. 

Agent Carter is terrible.
Agents of Shield is passable.
DareDevil is great.

If these were Shark movies, DD is to Jaws, as AoS is to Sharknado, as AC is to Bubble Guppies.

I am surprised the AC ratings were as high as they were.


----------



## JYoung

Ereth said:


> I LOVE it.
> 
> I loved the "Tales to Astonish" reference, and also the symbol you'd only recognize if you've been watching "Agents of SHIELD".


I thought it was "Tales of Suspense".
(Wasn't "Tales to Astonish" mentioned in Ant-Man?)
I also had to run the recording back to make sure I heard Jarvis right when he said "Whitney Frost".

It took me a bit to place the symbol and realize the tie in.

I'm still enjoying the show but I'm missing Angie.


----------



## Ereth

You are probably right. Iron Man and Captain America ran in Tales of Suspense comics. I just got it confused when I posted.

Fortunately, you were here to correct me, as always.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Just watched both new episodes. So glad this show is back. Love having Hayley Atwell on my TV.


----------



## laria

I guess we shouldn't have let ourselves get so behind on SHIELD.  We have 19 unwatched episodes. 

As soon as they introduced the woman (Whitney Frost), I told SO she was going to be a bad guy because she had a superhero or supervillain name.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

laria said:


> As soon as they introduced the woman (Whitney Frost), I told SO she was going to be a bad guy because she had a superhero or supervillain name.


And I knew which, because Whitney Frost is Madame Masque.


----------



## tvmaster2

so is there any way, using Marvel 'magic', they can get her into the future the way they did with Captain America (frozen underwater in a lake? please...)?
I think it would be great if Black Widow had some female companionship/competition.


----------



## caslu

tvmaster2 said:


> so is there any way, using Marvel 'magic', they can get her into the future the way they did with Captain America (frozen underwater in a lake? please...)?
> I think it would be great if Black Widow had some female companionship/competition.


She's already in the future (as seen in CA: The Winter Soldier), just really old.


----------



## laria

tvmaster2 said:


> so is there any way, using Marvel 'magic', they can get her into the future the way they did with Captain America (frozen underwater in a lake? please...)?
> I think it would be great if Black Widow had some female companionship/competition.


Well, they probably could, but... (movie info below)



Spoiler



I don't think so, since she has been in both _Captain America: Winter Soldier_ and _Ant-Man_ as an old lady.


----------



## Amnesia

laria said:


> As soon as they introduced the woman (Whitney Frost), I told SO she was going to be a bad guy because she had a superhero or supervillain name.


And the mystery had to do with cold. Coincidence? I think not...


----------



## TonyD79

Amnesia said:


> And the mystery had to do with cold. Coincidence? I think not...


I don't recall Whitney Frost having anything to do with cold.


----------



## laria

TonyD79 said:


> I don't recall Whitney Frost having anything to do with cold.


Well her name is "Frost" and she seemed to be a driving force behind research of this substance that is responsible for freezing all this stuff, and now it's inside her...


----------



## lpwcomp

Ereth said:


> You are probably right. Iron Man and Captain America ran in Tales of Suspense comics. I just got it confused when I posted.
> 
> Fortunately, you were here to correct me, as always.


"Strange Tales" would have been more appropriate since that's where "S.H.I.E.L.D." started.


----------



## JYoung

lpwcomp said:


> "Strange Tales" would have been more appropriate since that's where "S.H.I.E.L.D." started.


Yes but "Tales of Suspense" is where


Spoiler



Whitney Frost first appeared


.


----------



## tvmaster2

laria said:


> Well, they probably could, but... (movie info below)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so, since she has been in both _Captain America: Winter Soldier_ and _Ant-Man_ as an old lady.


yeah, Ant Man complicated things, but as a Whovian, tromping all over time-lines is something we accept


----------



## TonyD79

laria said:


> Well her name is "Frost" and she seemed to be a driving force behind research of this substance that is responsible for freezing all this stuff, and now it's inside her...


I was speaking historically. It did not connect to me because she is not a power endowed person at all historically.


----------



## laria

TonyD79 said:


> I was speaking historically. It did not connect to me because she is not a power endowed person at all historically.


Ah, ok.

I don't know anything about historically.  I only know what I see in the show.


----------



## TonyD79

laria said:


> Ah, ok. I don't know anything about historically.  I only know what I see in the show.


 Understood.

And I wasn't talking about your post.


----------



## tvmaster2

finally getting around to watching e01. It's great, but you have to accept the era. maybe people can't do that. And Atwell would make a fine Doctor Who.


----------



## eddyj

I realized last night that my old Season Pass for Agent Carter had someone gotten deleted, so I did not record! Thankfully, it is getting re-run on Sunday, so I can catch the two episodes then.

Did Agent Carter get canceled and then renewed or something? I am wondering how I deleted that SP.


----------



## busyba

Jarvis' wife/gf/whatever... what accent is that supposed to be? It's all over the place.

Souza's girlfriend... she's totally going to be a spy who's honeypotting him.

I get that the SSR is a government agency, but I can't believe that they were so cheap that they couldn't at least spring for a non-stop flight to LA.


----------



## Shakhari

busyba said:


> Jarvis' wife/gf/whatever... what accent is that supposed to be? It's all over the place.


The actress is Dutch.


----------



## SoBelle0

I loved Jarvis' wife. She's an excellent complement to his perceived stodginess, and shows that he's really much more 'loose' than he'd like to let on.

Good call on Souza's girlfriend. She did seem a bit too sweet, too happy to get along with this new woman whom she can obviously tell has some chemistry with her beau. Curious to see where all they take that.

I think this is a fantastic show! The era is part of why... Those clothes! Oh my!


----------



## Unbeliever

busyba said:


> I get that the SSR is a government agency, but I can't believe that they were so cheap that they couldn't at least spring for a non-stop flight to LA.


Late 40s? No such thing.

--Carlos (TWA, 1953 NYC->LA) V.


----------



## wprager

I thought I recognized Mrs. Jarvis but had to look her up. She was Geillis on Outlander.


----------



## wprager

JYoung said:


> I thought it was "Tales of Suspense".
> (Wasn't "Tales to Astonish" mentioned in Ant-Man?)
> I also had to run the recording back to make sure I heard Jarvis right when he said "Whitney Frost".
> 
> It took me a bit to place the symbol and realize the tie in.
> 
> I'm still enjoying the show but I'm missing Angie.


Sorry, what "symbol"? And what "tie in"?


----------



## Ereth

wprager said:


> Sorry, what "symbol"? And what "tie in"?


The symbol on the lapel, and over the door for the secret meeting, has been seen in Agents of SHIELD last season.



Spoiler



It's one of a series of symbols used by the organization that includes Hydra


----------



## Ereth

Unbeliever said:


> Late 40s? No such thing.
> 
> --Carlos (TWA, 1953 NYC->LA) V.


That looks like a DC-4 to me, which has a maximum range of 2172 nm.

TWA did a transcontinental flight from Washington DC to Burbank, CA in 1944 in the Constellation (flown by Hughes himself). This trip is also notable because they stopped on the return flight to give Orville Wright his last flight, in an aircraft whose wingspan exceeded the length of the very first flight.

(In 1957 the Constellation also flew non-stop from London to San Francisco, staying aloft over 23 hours, a record that will probably never be broken due to the greater speeds we fly now).

So, they could have done it with a Constellation, but not with a DC-4. The Connie was more expensive, and TWA was mostly flying them across the pond at the time, though there were cross-country flights available.


----------



## busyba

Shakhari said:


> The actress is Dutch.


What about the character?


----------



## busyba

Oh jeez, I was joking about the flight.


----------



## DevdogAZ

busyba said:


> What about the character?


She mentioned that Jarvis helped her escape from the Third Reich. She didn't say what country, though.


----------



## wprager

busyba said:


> Oh jeez, I was joking about the flight.


Are you new?  No matter the subject matter, no matter how trivial, there will be an expert explaining/correcting in minute detail.


----------



## morac

Is this a talkback thread? There's nothing in the subject about spoilers.

In any case the zero matter



Spoiler



looks like the obelisk on Agents of Shield.

Also who else thinks the nurse will turn out to be a spy


----------



## cheesesteak

I guess there'll be no chocolate thunder for Peggy.

I don't know how anybody wouldn't love this show.


----------



## ej42137

cheesesteak said:


> I guess there'll be no chocolate thunder for Peggy.
> 
> I don't know how anybody wouldn't love this show.


Don't be so quick to assume; we know that escape from the black goo is not impossible. (Actually I'm sure you are correct, even as surprisingly racially tolerant as the Marvell's 1940s appear to be.)


----------



## tvmaster2

ej42137 said:


> Don't be so quick to assume; we know that escape from the black goo is not impossible. (Actually I'm sure you are correct, even as surprisingly racially tolerant as the Marvell's 1940s appear to be.)


the black goo! of course! how to get young Peggy to 2016.....


----------



## zordude

tvmaster2 said:


> the black goo! of course! how to get young Peggy to 2016.....


She was already in "present day" as an old lady, so that is a non starter


----------



## john4200

zordude said:


> She was already in "present day" as an old lady, so that is a non starter


Not necessarily. If there were someone with a time machine, they could bring her forward for a while, then bring her back to the time they took her from.

Guest appearance by way of time machine.


----------



## martinp13

busyba said:


> Jarvis' wife/gf/whatever... what accent is that supposed to be? It's all over the place.


Most of my momentary rewinds were to try to figure out what accent she was using for each sentence.  Russian, then German, then American... thought one even sounded Scandinavian.


----------



## dianebrat

john4200 said:


> Not necessarily. If there were someone with a time machine, they could bring her forward for a while, then bring her back to the time they took her from.
> Guest appearance by way of time machine.


Considering how much you're willing to jump on other shows with tiny detail issues I can't believe you're suggesting it


----------



## cheesesteak

Are they still filming this in hazy cam or do I need my eyes examined soon?


----------



## TonyD79

cheesesteak said:


> Are they still filming this in hazy cam or do I need my eyes examined soon?


Hazy cam. Because the 1940s were foggy.


----------



## dianebrat

cheesesteak said:


> Are they still filming this in hazy cam or do I need my eyes examined soon?





TonyD79 said:


> Hazy cam. Because the 1940s were foggy.




It's also classic Hollywood of that time period for shooting women on film, I've always assumed it was an intentional nod for that reason.

One of the older big shows to use it and get called out on it was Moonlighting, shooting Maddie, soft focus, shooting David, sharp.


----------



## tvmaster2

dianebrat said:


> Considering how much you're willing to jump on other shows with tiny detail issues I can't believe you're suggesting it


I, on the other hand, am a Whovian, so anything's possible. Pepper needs some competition...


----------



## john4200

dianebrat said:


> Considering how much you're willing to jump on other shows with tiny detail issues I can't believe you're suggesting it


I criticize big inconsistencies. Taking someone out of their time for a while and then putting them back exactly when you took them from is not inconsistent. Assuming you have a time machine.


----------



## wprager

The term "retcon" originated in comics, as did all these shows. If they want to bring Peggy to 2016 by using any device mentioned (or unmentioned) why would anyone even complain? *How* would anyone even complain?


----------



## BrettStah

wprager said:


> The term "retcon" originated in comics, as did all these shows. If they want to bring Peggy to 2016 by using any device mentioned (or unmentioned) why would anyone even complain? *How* would anyone even complain?


Hi, are you new here?


----------



## TonyD79

dianebrat said:


> It's also classic Hollywood of that time period for shooting women on film, I've always assumed it was an intentional nod for that reason. One of the older big shows to use it and get called out on it was Moonlighting, shooting Maddie, soft focus, shooting David, sharp.


Except that all of Agent Carter is fuzzy.

In the old days, they actually slopped vaseline on the lens.


----------



## tvmaster2

wprager said:


> The term "retcon" originated in comics, as did all these shows. If they want to bring Peggy to 2016 by using any device mentioned (or unmentioned) why would anyone even complain? *How* would anyone even complain?


wouldn't bother me, if even it was only temporary, to deliver an important fact or the like, then back to 1947...


----------



## lpwcomp

tvmaster2 said:


> wouldn't bother me, if even it was only temporary, to deliver an important fact or the like, then back to 1947...


You might want to rethink that. It makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

"Hmmm, I need to deliver an important fact to 2016! I shall...BUILD A TIME MACHINE!."

"Or, maybe write them a note."


----------



## dianebrat

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "Hmmm, I need to deliver an important fact to 2016! I shall...BUILD A TIME MACHINE!."
> 
> "Or, maybe write them a note."


*snort* milk out the nose worthy for sure..


----------



## TonyD79

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "Hmmm, I need to deliver an important fact to 2016! I shall...BUILD A TIME MACHINE!." "Or, maybe write them a note."


Or a detective novel.


----------



## tvmaster2

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "Hmmm, I need to deliver an important fact to 2016! I shall...BUILD A TIME MACHINE!."
> 
> "Or, maybe write them a note."


we're talking about Marvel material here, right? The Bifrost? Ironman? Ultron? The Hulk? Building a time machine to deliver a note seems like a minor event in the silly world of Marvel. "Hey, now how do we get Captain America into the future? Oh, we crash land his 1940's, pre air-bag airplane into the ice, and freeze that puppy. They'll never ask how he survived the impact. Those fans will buy anything..."
lol


----------



## tvmaster2

lpwcomp said:


> You might want to rethink that. It makes absolutely no sense.


maybe this thread and thinking aren't synonymous....


----------



## Ereth

tvmaster2 said:


> we're talking about Marvel material here, right? The Bifrost? Ironman? Ultron? The Hulk? Building a time machine to deliver a note seems like a minor event in the silly world of Marvel. "Hey, now how do we get Captain America into the future? Oh, we crash land his 1940's, pre air-bag airplane into the ice, and freeze that puppy. They'll never ask how he survived the impact. Those fans will buy anything..."
> lol


Super Soldier Serum.

They explained that way back in Avengers #4, so we don't have to ask. We already knew.


----------



## Dawghows

TonyD79 said:


> Or a detective novel.


Well played...


----------



## wprager

BrettStah said:


> Hi, are you new here?


I knew that was coming


----------



## tvmaster2

Ereth said:


> Super Soldier Serum.
> 
> They explained that way back in Avengers #4, so we don't have to ask. We already knew.


lol. super soldier serum. thanks for proving my point! 😜


----------



## Ereth

tvmaster2 said:


> lol. super soldier serum. thanks for proving my point! 😜


What point? That you don't know anything about Captain America?


----------



## dianebrat

Ereth said:


> What point? That you don't know anything about Captain America?


I almost replied with a similar "but that's with WHOLE basis of Captain America!!! I'm glad I wasn't the only one.


----------



## tvmaster2

my goodness you folks take all this very seriously.....lol

but ok, I'll play along....fascinating stuff: http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Super-Soldier_Serum

missed the part about freezing, though....


----------



## LoadStar

Just a reminder, this is *not* a spoiler thread, or at least the subject line isn't indicated as such. If one wants to make it into a spoiler thread, you might want to request that "(Spoilers)" be added to the subject line by a moderator.


----------



## Ereth

Kid Colt Outlaw! That was a wonderful surprise!

Also "You think people want a movie based on a comic book?".

I love this show!


----------



## busyba

Don't forget (paraphrasing) "I have no intention of going on existing as a disembodied voice."


I thought for sure that Dr Wilkes was trapped inside Victoria Frost's crack.



(I'm referring, of course, to the black crack in her forehead.)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Whitney Frost.


----------



## busyba

Right. I'm surprised I even got Dr. Wilkes' name right.


----------



## TonyD79

Wilkes's. He is not plural.


----------



## wprager

Is this the Agent Carter thread or the Grammarian Carter thread?


----------



## dianebrat

wprager said:


> Is this the Agent Carter thread or the Grammarian Carter thread?


yes!


----------



## Unbeliever

TonyD79 said:


> Wilkes's. He is not plural.


For nouns/names that end with 's', a single apostrophe without the additional 's' is appropriate, plural or not and is grammatically correct.

--Carlos "lifelong experience with that" V.


----------



## mattack

cheesesteak said:


> Are they still filming this in hazy cam or do I need my eyes examined soon?


Yeah, it didn't seem like this last season.. but this time there was even more Vaseline on the lens than for William Shatner in the original Trek! (Look at the soft focus on closeups of Shatner!!)

So this is entirely DIFFERENT "black goo" than on SHIELD, right? That stuff actually solidified into a rock most of the time.. But it seems like they're using the same special effects for the stuff...


----------



## TonyD79

Unbeliever said:


> For nouns/names that end with 's', a single apostrophe without the additional 's' is appropriate, plural or not and is grammatically correct. --Carlos "lifelong experience with that" V.


Nope.


----------



## eddyj

TonyD79 said:


> Nope.


It is accepted usage:

http://www.grammarly.com/answers/questions/4794-forming-possessives-with-nouns-ending-in-s/


----------



## BrettStah

Interesting disagreement over this issue:
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/possessive-of-proper-names-ending-in-s/

I think I agree with that page's opinion:
"A name ending in s takes only an apostrophe if the possessive form is not pronounced with an extra s. Hence: Socrates' philosophy, Ulysses' companions, Saint Saens' music, Aristophanes' plays."


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

BrettStah said:


> Interesting disagreement over this issue:
> http://www.dailywritingtips.com/possessive-of-proper-names-ending-in-s/
> 
> I think I agree with that page's opinion:
> "A name ending in s takes only an apostrophe if the possessive form is not pronounced with an extra s. Hence: Socrates philosophy, Ulysses companions, Saint Saens music, Aristophanes plays."


I agree, but the ultimate takeaway is that both ways are acceptable (to different authorities).

(Growing up, I was taught not to use the extra s on words that end in s, ever, which had some resonance to me given my last name. But in my case, the extra s would be pronounced, so it should take it, and for whatever reason that's the way I've always done it despite Mrs. Klobuchar's best efforts.)


----------



## DevdogAZ

BrettStah said:


> Interesting disagreement over this issue: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/possessive-of-proper-names-ending-in-s/
> 
> I think I agree with that page's opinion: "A name ending in s takes only an apostrophe if the possessive form is not pronounced with an extra s. Hence: Socrates&#146; philosophy, Ulysses&#146; companions, Saint Saens&#146; music, Aristophanes&#146; plays."


I don't like that opinion. The apostrophe is used (in this case) to signify possession to the reader. Without it, the reader has to pick that up via context, which might require re-reading the sentence. It's much better to use that extra character and make things perfectly clear for the reader, IMO.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't like that opinion. The apostrophe is used (in this case) to signify possession to the reader. Without it, the reader has to pick that up via context, which might require re-reading the sentence. It's much better to use that extra character and make things perfectly clear for the reader, IMO.


But the apostrophe is still there...


----------



## BrettStah

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't like that opinion. The apostrophe is used (in this case) to signify possession to the reader. Without it, the reader has to pick that up via context, which might require re-reading the sentence. It's much better to use that extra character and make things perfectly clear for the reader, IMO.


The apostrophe is used in both cases:

Socrates' philosophical ideas were discussed over pizza.

Jesus's opinion about pizzas is rarely discussed.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the apostrophe is still there...


Hmmm, I'm reading on ForumRunner and there are no apostrophes in part of BrettStah's post that's in quotations. I wonder if they were removed because he copy/pasted that text from a webpage where they were coded differently.


----------



## BrettStah

DevdogAZ said:


> Hmmm, I'm reading on ForumRunner and there are no apostrophes in part of BrettStah's post that's in quotations. I wonder if they were removed because he copy/pasted that text from a webpage where they were coded differently.


Ah, maybe so! I'll edit it.

OK, I edited the original post - here's the edited version of that quote:

"A name ending in s takes only an apostrophe if the possessive form is not pronounced with an extra s. Hence: Socrates' philosophy, Ulysses' companions, Saint Saens' music, Aristophanes' plays."


----------



## DevdogAZ

BrettStah said:


> Ah, maybe so! I'll edit it.
> 
> OK, I edited the original post - here's the edited version of that quote:
> 
> "A name ending in s takes only an apostrophe if the possessive form is not pronounced with an extra s. Hence: Socrates' philosophy, Ulysses' companions, Saint Saens' music, Aristophanes' plays."


Ah, thanks. That's better.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DevdogAZ said:


> Ah, thanks. That's better.


I think the problem was in his original post, he was using a curly apostrophe (smart punctuation), and your forum reader can't read that?

Regular's apostrophe
Curlys apostrophe

Can you see them both?


----------



## DevdogAZ

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think the problem was in his original post, he was using a curly apostrophe (smart punctuation), and your forum reader can't read that?
> 
> Regular's apostrophe
> Curly&#146;s apostrophe
> 
> Can you see them both?


Nope. I only see the regular one.


----------



## wprager

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't like that opinion. The apostrophe is used (in this case) to signify possession to the reader. Without it, the reader has to pick that up via context, which might require re-reading the sentence. It's much better to use that extra character and make things perfectly clear for the reader, IMO.


But English is full of context-sensitive syntax and meaning. Surely you're not picking just this one? But let's take a simple case that is unambiguous: cat. When you see "cat's" it could either be a possessive or a contraction for "cat is" and you have no choice but to decide it based on context.


----------



## DevdogAZ

wprager said:


> But English is full of context-sensitive syntax and meaning. Surely you're not picking just this one? But let's take a simple case that is unambiguous: cat. When you see "cat's" it could either be a possessive or a contraction for "cat is" and you have no choice but to decide it based on context.


Sure. That's always going to be a problem. But I don't understand the position that wants to remove a character and make the meaning less clear when they could leave the character in and make it more clear.


----------



## danterner

mattack said:


> Yeah, it didn't seem like this last season.. but this time there was even more Vaseline on the lens than for William Shatner in the original Trek! (Look at the soft focus on closeups of Shatner!!)


There was one brief establishing shot in this episode that I think might have been colorized old footage of an actual street from the 1940's (please don't focus on my use of the apostrophe there - let it go).


----------



## DevdogAZ

danterner said:


> There was one brief establishing shot in this episode that I think might have been colorized old footage of an actual street from the 1940's (please don't focus on my use of the apostrophe there - let it go).


I agree. I noticed that shot and it was very grainy and out of place with the rest of the episode.


----------



## tvmaster2

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree. I noticed that shot and it was very grainy and out of place with the rest of the episode.


+1 - maybe cheaper to use stock footage than rent 15 period autos?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

tvmaster2 said:


> +1 - maybe cheaper to use stock footage than rent 15 period autos?


And tear down all the new buildings?


----------



## TonyD79

DevdogAZ said:


> Sure. That's always going to be a problem. But I don't understand the position that wants to remove a character and make the meaning less clear when they could leave the character in and make it more clear.


Cool! I turned this into a BBT thread!


----------



## wprager

DevdogAZ said:


> Sure. That's always going to be a problem. But I don't understand the position that wants to remove a character and make the meaning less clear when they could leave the character in and make it more clear.


I fail to see how it could be less clear. It's not ambiguous at all. It's not like there is a different _meaning_ or _pronunciation_ with the 's' as compared to without. All I see is a different style, hence a preference and not ambiguity.


----------



## wprager

danterner said:


> There was one brief establishing shot in this episode that I think might have been colorized old footage of an actual street from the 1940's (please don't focus on my use of the apostrophe there - let it go).


I can't. It's not possessive or a contraction of any sort. You could say '40s (the apostrophe here indicates that you've "truncated" something -- the "19" in this case)


----------



## TonyD79

wprager said:


> I fail to see how it could be less clear. It's not ambiguous at all. It's not like there is a different meaning or pronunciation with the 's' as compared to without. All I see is a different style, hence a preference and not ambiguity.


There is a different pronunciation.


----------



## JYoung

Wait.

Peggy's brother is Booster Gold?


----------



## wprager

TonyD79 said:


> There is a different pronunciation.


No. The "rule" that is being contested is that *if* there is a different pronunciation then you spell it differently, but some don't like that "rule". No-one ever suggested that you *should* pronounce it differently depending on the presence or absence of the 's'.

This discussion reminds me of the accents in French. It doesn't frakking matter if you write an e with an accent ague or grave. No-one will be confused one way or another because it's not like there are two different words depending on which accent you pick. While there may be some "rules" as to the different sound the accents make, everyone also knows how the word is pronounced and no-one would make a mistake if the direction of the accent was flipped. Yet if you got it wrong in high school French you got marked down for it. In Russian the umlaut over the letter 'E' changes it from the 'ye' sounds to 'yo'. Most fonts don't have umlauts for the capital 'E' and quite often you'll see it missing even from the lowercase ones, yet no-one is complaining. They just pronounce the word correctly. Off the top of my head I can't think of a word that can be spelled with either the 'ye' or the 'yo' (and have different meaning, of course) but that can and does happen with surnames. But somehow people figure it out.


----------



## wprager

So is Frost's crack getting bigger? Let me rephrase that -- is the crack in her forehead enlarging? Was that the purpose of her experimentation? 

It was interesting seeing some of Peggy's back story.


----------



## dianebrat

wprager said:


> So is Frost's crack getting bigger? Let me rephrase that -- is the crack in her forehead enlarging? Was that the purpose of her experimentation?


Yes they have been very blatant showing the black mark expanding.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

dianebrat said:


> Yes they have been very blatant showing the black mark expanding.


Every time she absorbs somebody or something.


----------



## NorthAlabama

wprager said:


> It was interesting seeing some of Peggy's back story.


yes, and this season as a whole has been great. :up:


----------



## dianebrat

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Every time she absorbs somebody or something.


I was being vague since it's not a spoilers thread


----------



## Graymalkin

This is obviously not the Whitney Frost AKA Madame Masque from the Iron Man canon. Will be interesting to see if they connect it to canon and if so, how.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Graymalkin said:


> This is obviously not the Whitney Frost AKA Madame Masque from the Iron Man canon. Will be interesting to see if they connect it to canon and if so, how.


I assume she gets the mask to cover her increasing facial deformity (they've already shown the drama/comedy masks on her wall)...


----------



## Ereth

I love that she's basically Hedy Lamarr, who they referenced in the most recent episode. Nice touch.


----------



## Unbeliever

Ereth said:


> I love that she's basically Hedy Lamarr, who they referenced in the most recent episode. Nice touch.


HEDLEY!!!

--Carlos "Pledges allegiance to the evil for which he stands" V.


----------



## ej42137

Ereth said:


> I love that she's basically Hedy Lamarr, who they referenced in the most recent episode. Nice touch.


Yes, even today very few people are aware of Ms. Lamarr's secret career as a supervillainess.



Unbeliever said:


> HEDLEY!!!
> 
> --Carlos "Pledges allegiance to the evil for which he stands" V.


Hah! Made me laugh! Now that was a funny movie!


----------



## Thom

ej42137 said:


> Yes, even today very few people are aware of Ms. Lamarr's secret career as a supervillainess.


Or that she and a composer invented and patented Spread Spectrum Technology in 1941 to prevent evesdropping on Allied communications.


----------



## busyba

Thom said:


> Or that she and a composer invented and patented Spread Spectrum Technology in 1941 to prevent evesdropping on Allied communications.


Was that her? I knew there was an actress who had done that, but I thought it was someone else.


----------



## Ereth

busyba said:


> Was that her? I knew there was an actress who had done that, but I thought it was someone else.


From hedylamarr.com -



> As if being a beautiful, talented actress was not enough, Hedy was also extremely intelligent. In addition to her film accomplishments, Hedy patented an idea that later became the crutch of both secure military communications and mobile phone technology. In 1942, Hedy and composer George Antheil patented what they called the Secret Communication System. The original idea, meant to solve the problem of enemies blocking signals from radio-controlled missiles during World War II, involved changing radio frequencies simultaneously to prevent enemies from being able to detect the messages. While the technology of the time prevented the feasibility of the idea at first, the advent of the transistor and its later downsizing made Hedys idea very important to both the military and the cell phone industry.


----------



## wprager

ej42137 said:


> Yes, even today very few people are aware of Ms. Lamarr's secret career as a supervillainess.
> 
> Hah! Made me laugh! Now that was a funny movie!


It's twue. It's twue.


----------



## ej42137

Thom said:


> Or that she and a composer invented and patented Spread Spectrum Technology in 1941 to prevent evesdropping on Allied communications.


No, I think most people are aware of that; it was in her obituary after all.


----------



## tvmaster2

busyba said:


> Was that her? I knew there was an actress who had done that, but I thought it was someone else.


Greta Garbo was also pretty swift. Maybe this character is a hybrid of them both?

http://patents.justia.com/inventor/greta-m-garbo

lol. don't think this is her...just a funny coincidence


----------



## wtherrell

Damn! Thread hijacked by an apostrophe! Useless. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ej42137

tvmaster2 said:


> Greta Garbo was also pretty swift. Maybe this character is a hybrid of them both?
> 
> http://patents.justia.com/inventor/greta-m-garbo
> 
> lol. don't think this is her...just a funny coincidence


Her who? Greta M. Garbo the chemist, or Greta L. Garbo the actress recluse?


----------



## loubob57

I had to rewind and look at the plans for the "reactor". It sure looked like a drawing of drum brakes.


----------



## dianebrat

ARGH Boston area per-empted for election coverage


----------



## laria

dianebrat said:


> ARGH Boston area per-empted for election coverage


Yeah, WCVB was a mess Monday and Tuesday. There were some posts about it last night in the alerts forum, but it's too late now.  I don't know if you guys get WMUR near Boston, but it was rescheduled on there for 2:07 this morning, but not on WCVB as far as I can tell. They also entered the schedule wrong on Monday or something and preempted Castle and marked it as scheduled for 1:37 AM when it aired at the normal time just fine.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

loubob57 said:


> I had to rewind and look at the plans for the "reactor". It sure looked like a drawing of drum brakes.


Well, if they used a drawing of an actual reactor, then the terrorists could build one and win.


----------



## madscientist

laria said:


> Yeah, WCVB was a mess Monday and Tuesday. There were some posts about it last night in the alerts forum, but it's too late now.  I don't know if you guys get WMUR near Boston, but it was rescheduled on there for 2:07 this morning, but not on WCVB as far as I can tell. They also entered the schedule wrong on Monday or something and preempted Castle and marked it as scheduled for 1:37 AM when it aired at the normal time just fine.


I managed to add new recordings for the early AM showings of last night's shows (I haven't checked to see if they really were shown as advertised though), but I completely missed Castle. It recorded some crap at about 3am and there don't seem to be any other showings listed for that episode @#$%&.

Wonder whether it was TiVo or WCVB that effed that up?


----------



## laria

madscientist said:


> I managed to add new recordings for the early AM showings of last night's shows (I haven't checked to see if they really were shown as advertised though), but I completely missed Castle. It recorded some crap at about 3am and there don't seem to be any other showings listed for that episode @#$%&.
> 
> Wonder whether it was TiVo or WCVB that effed that up?


The data was wrong with Zap2It.

I did manage to get Agent Carter at least from the 2:07 AM WMUR showing this morning, but I have a bunch of other shows on other networks to find now, or watch on demand. The Castle episode on demand was terrible... it was in stretched SD.


----------



## madscientist

Grinder and Brooklyn 99 had proper schedule updates and recorded at 12:30am or so. I scheduled recordings for Fresh Off the Boat (I'm meh on this one now but...) and Agent Carter by hand and they came through OK.

So, the only thing I think I missed was Castle and that's because they screwed it up on Monday, and who would be looking for schedule changes on Monday?!?! Sigh. I'll check my Plex server or else try Magical Means.


----------



## laria

madscientist said:


> Grinder and Brooklyn 99 had proper schedule updates and recorded at 12:30am or so. I scheduled recordings for Fresh Off the Boat (I'm meh on this one now but...) and Agent Carter by hand and they came through OK.


Ah, my other things were all on other networks (NBC and CBS) and did not get schedule updates.


----------



## Generic

Hayley Atwell to star in a new ABC pilot for a potential new legal drama called Conviction. It doesn't look good for Agent Carter season 3 but I think we all knew this even if we don't want AC to end. 

I can't post a link since Google Chrome updated on iOS. It does not work well with TCF.


----------



## Kamakzie

Generic said:


> Hayley Atwell to star in a new ABC pilot for a potential new legal drama called Conviction. It doesn't look good for Agent Carter season 3 but I think we all knew this even if we don't want AC to end.
> 
> I can't post a link since Google Chrome updated on iOS. It does not work well with TCF.


http://deadline.com/2016/02/agent-carter-hayley-atwell-star-conviction-abc-pilot-1201699699/


----------



## cheesesteak

Did anything important happen at the end of the episode? The damn Muppets ran over for about two minutes. Peggy had been impaled and was on the couch at Daniel's girlfriend's place. Whitney had just threatened her husband after he refused to help her any more.


----------



## Peter000

cheesesteak said:


> Did anything important happen at the end of the episode? The damn Muppets ran over for about two minutes. Peggy had been impaled and was on the couch at Daniel's girlfriend's place. Whitney had just threatened her husband after he refused to help her any more.


Jarvis took Peggy to his place to rest.

Violet realized Sousa was in love with Peggy, and called him on it and he didn't deny it.

While Whitney was asleep, her husband made a phone call to arrange a council meeting to talk about Whitney's condition and abilities.

Dr. Wilkes was listening to music with resting Peggy, and started to phase in and out of view and disappeared completely, much to Peggy's alarm.

I think that's it.


----------



## eddyj

Peter000 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Jarvis took Peggy to his place to rest.
> 
> Violet realized Sousa was in love with Peggy, and called him on it and he didn't deny it.
> 
> While Whitney was asleep, her husband made a phone call to arrange a council meeting to talk about Whitney's condition and abilities.
> 
> Dr. Wilkes was listening to music with resting Peggy, and started to phase in and out of view and disappeared completely, much to Peggy's alarm.
> 
> 
> I think that's it.


So nothing important! 

I'm glad I went to abc.com to finish it!


----------



## tvmaster2

Kamakzie said:


> http://deadline.com/2016/02/agent-carter-hayley-atwell-star-conviction-abc-pilot-1201699699/


what's surprising about this is that I know a few 'Marvel Heads', aka they support everything Marvel in the theatres, including the relatively ghastly 'Age of Ultron', or whatever that mess was.
But they won't support 'Agent Carter'
Can't figure it out - other than it's a weird misogynistic thing. The only way we'll know that for sure is if Black Widow gets a film.
But when it comes to TV, none of them watch the Marvel TV shows


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

tvmaster2 said:


> Can't figure it out - other than it's a weird misogynistic thing. The only way we'll know that for sure is if Black Widow gets a film.
> But when it comes to TV, none of them watch the Marvel TV shows


It could be that they just want super-heroes, which SHIELD gives very little of (although more lately) and Carter nothing at all.


----------



## Ereth

Well if they don't watch ANY of the Marvel TV shows, I think it's safe to say it's not a misogynistic thing.

Daredevil isn't female-led and has superheroes.

Maybe they just don't care for slower paced storytelling. Do they read the comics? The TV shows fit the comic book story telling mold much better than the movies do. The movies are more about spectacle.


----------



## wprager

Those of you who missed Castle ... consider yourselves real lucky.


----------



## madscientist

Please folks, this is NOT marked as a spoiler thread! Either change the name or use tags.


----------



## eddyj

madscientist said:


> Please folks, this is NOT marked as a spoiler thread! Either change the name or use tags.


You are right, I added spoiler tags to my quoted stuff. It really should be renamed, but the OP has not posted in a year, and usually that person has to ask. Maybe we just need to start a spoiler thread and migrate there.


----------



## laria

It's been renamed now.


----------



## hummingbird_206

eddyj said:


> You are right, I added spoiler tags to my quoted stuff. It really should be renamed, but the OP has not posted in a year, and usually that person has to ask. Maybe we just need to start a spoiler thread and migrate there.


I made the request and have done so on many other threads where I'm not the OP. So I don't think you have to be the OP to ask to add Spoilers to the title.


----------



## busyba

laria said:


> It's been renamed now.


_Whew! _ At last, our long national nightmare is over...


----------



## eddyj

hummingbird_206 said:


> I made the request and have done so on many other threads where I'm not the OP. So I don't think you have to be the OP to ask to add Spoilers to the title.


I thought that was the rule, good to know otherwise! :up:


----------



## dianebrat

hummingbird_206 said:


> I made the request and have done so on many other threads where I'm not the OP. So I don't think you have to be the OP to ask to add Spoilers to the title.





eddyj said:


> I thought that was the rule, good to know otherwise! :up:


I know the rule of thumb is that the OP should do it, but I have to think the Mods can make a judgement call in certain scenarios, I know when I was a mod on another forum that was the case.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

I've asked for thread titles to be changed from time to time (wrong dates, typos, etc.), and it's always happened with no comment.


----------



## madscientist

Thanks! I'm back, having caught up last night. I'm enjoying this season quite a bit. Is next week's show 2 hours? I thought I heard that.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

madscientist said:


> Thanks! I'm back, having caught up last night. I'm enjoying this season quite a bit. Is next week's show 2 hours? I thought I heard that.


The next two weeks.

(I assume the third week is just one, because that would be 2x10.)


----------



## wprager

So that's where Tarantino got that shot from


----------



## tvmaster2

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The next two weeks.
> 
> (I assume the third week is just one, because that would be 2x10.)


are they trying to kill off the series quickly?


----------



## morac

tvmaster2 said:


> are they trying to kill off the series quickly?


It's only a mid-season replacement, while Agents of Shield is on hiatus. Carter needs to be finished by March to give Shield time for the rest of its episodes.


----------



## tvmaster2

morac said:


> It's only a mid-season replacement, while Agents of Shield is on hiatus. Carter needs to be finished by March to give Shield time for the rest of its episodes.


too bad. whenever they start doubling up on shows, for whatever the reason, it's a bad sign...


----------



## lpwcomp

tvmaster2 said:


> too bad. whenever they start doubling up on shows, for whatever the reason, it's a bad sign...


Not as bad a sign as the star being cast as the lead in a pilot for a completely different series.


----------



## cmontyburns

lpwcomp said:


> Not as bad a sign as the star being cast as the lead in a pilot for a completely different series.


That happens all the time. Usually the show they're already on stays in first position. Although we don't know whether Atwell is under contract for more potential Carter seasons or not.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

cmontyburns said:


> That happens all the time. Usually the show they're already on stays in first position. Although we don't know whether Atwell is under contract for more potential Carter seasons or not.


Knowing Marvel's contracts, her grandchildren probably have some obligations... 

But with Agent Carter's ratings the way they are, I doubt it's in much danger of being renewed. I suspect they will try something else for SHIELD's hiatus next year.


----------



## osu1991

They already stated they would work around Haleys schedule for Agent Carter if both shows were picked up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## DevdogAZ

lpwcomp said:


> Not as bad a sign as the star being cast as the lead in a pilot for a completely different series.


Especially when both shows are produced by ABC Studios. That means the execs who signed off on her being the lead in the new show have no expectation that there will be a conflict with Agent Carter.


----------



## dianebrat

osu1991 said:


> They already stated they would work around Haleys schedule for Agent Carter if both shows were picked up.





DevdogAZ said:


> Especially when both shows are produced by ABC Studios. That means the execs who signed off on her being the lead in the new show have no expectation that there will be a conflict with Agent Carter.


 From what was posted right before your post I wouldn't say that's necessarily the case, but granted we need to see what happens after this season is complete, while I don't expect renewal, it's not a clear cancellation death blow either.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

By the way, one possible reason they're doubling up on these four episodes is that there are two more episodes this season vs last (10 vs 8), so maybe they need the doubling to get the extra episodes in during the SHIELD hiatus?


----------



## cheesesteak

It's a shame this show doesn't get better ratings. I think it's the best of the Marvel and DC comic book universe tv shows that I watch.


----------



## Azlen

Rob Helmerichs said:


> By the way, one possible reason they're doubling up on these four episodes is that there are two more episodes this season vs last (10 vs 8), so maybe they need the doubling to get the extra episodes in during the SHIELD hiatus?


It also started later than it was supposed to as well. The premiere was delayed when the State of the Union was moved to January 12th instead of the expected 19th.

http://movieweb.com/agent-carter-season-2-delayed-obama-state-union-address/


----------



## trainman

Randy Sklar... Matt Braunger... Ken Marino...

Why has Paul F. Tompkins not appeared on "Agent Carter" yet? He can even use his own personal wardrobe!


----------



## busyba

trainman said:


> Randy Sklar... Matt Braunger... Ken Marino...
> 
> Why has Paul F. Tompkins not appeared on "Agent Carter" yet? He can even use his own personal wardrobe!


Isn't he busy shooting Billions?










(I know it's not the same guy)

(I also know the resemblance is only barely passing; for some reason, I just always think of Paul Tompkins everytime I see this guy on Billions )


----------



## caughey

I was watching this week's double episode the other night. Did anyone else have garbled dialog? It sounded like the were talking underwater for about 15-20 minutes in the middle. It was the same day Skip mode showed up, so I was afraid that was related, but it didn't affect live TV or other recordings. I even rebooted and that didn't fix it. It finally got better on its own. I haven't had that happen before.


----------



## trainman

caughey said:


> I was watching this week's double episode the other night. Did anyone else have garbled dialog? It sounded like the were talking underwater for about 15-20 minutes in the middle. It was the same day Skip mode showed up, so I was afraid that was related, but it didn't affect live TV or other recordings. I even rebooted and that didn't fix it. It finally got better on its own. I haven't had that happen before.


I didn't think it was 15-20 minutes, but I did notice some audio problems for a few minutes. It sounded like there were very short "dropouts" in the dialogue throughout those few minutes. I'm using a DirecTV DVR, not TiVo. I see you're in Orange County, so maybe it was a problem on KABC's end.


----------



## Dawghows

I watched last night also, and didn't notice any problems with the audio.


----------



## JYoung

caughey said:


> I was watching this week's double episode the other night. Did anyone else have garbled dialog? It sounded like the were talking underwater for about 15-20 minutes in the middle. It was the same day Skip mode showed up, so I was afraid that was related, but it didn't affect live TV or other recordings. I even rebooted and that didn't fix it. It finally got better on its own. I haven't had that happen before.





trainman said:


> I didn't think it was 15-20 minutes, but I did notice some audio problems for a few minutes. It sounded like there were very short "dropouts" in the dialogue throughout those few minutes. I'm using a DirecTV DVR, not TiVo. I see you're in Orange County, so maybe it was a problem on KABC's end.


I recorded Agent Carter via KABC's OTA signal and I don't remember any audio issues.


----------



## caughey

Maybe it just _seemed _like 20 minutes, but it was long enough for me to futz with all the sound settings and do a reboot, so it was a while.

I attribute it to a zero matter side-effect and hope it doesn't happen again.


----------



## laria

I have been having audio dropouts on all my ABC shows lately. 

I would think the TiVo was having issues, but in the past when the drive was dying there would be pixelization when the audio went wonky. Now it is just the audio cutting out, no picture issues. I thought maybe it was the NH affiliate (my OnePasses default to the NH station WMUR), so I changed them to always use WCVB from Boston, but I am still getting them.


----------



## busyba

Anybody else scratch their heads when the scientist said that the particle beam was going to travel in a parabolic arc?


----------



## john4200

busyba said:


> Anybody else scratch their heads when the scientist said that the particle beam was going to travel in a parabolic arc?


I am beginning to notice a pattern in these short Marvel seasons like Agent Carter and Jessica Jones. They start out very good, draw things out too long in the middle, then completely fall apart at the end.

Anyway, it was a gamma cannon (presumably firing gamma radiation), not a particle beam. Regardless, gravity does act on radiation (photons) as well as particles like electrons or positrons, so technically it would be a parabolic arc. But since the radiation is traveling at the speed of light, the deflection due to gravity during the nanoseconds of flight time would be negligible, so it makes the scientist look like an idiot (especially his comment about accounting for the easterly breeze). But it also made the agents look stupid, because they totally ignored him, even though they had no idea that what he was saying was irrelevant.

But that was the least of the flaws in these last two episodes. There were many more. Perhaps the biggest was when Sousa told them the real location of the uranium rods. WTF? I was thinking how well he and Agent Carter were playing it, making it seem like he was really going to tell them, when he was obviously just going to make up a location that would send them away for a couple hours. But then the imbecile tells them the real location. Unbelievable.


----------



## JYoung

busyba said:


> Anybody else scratch their heads when the scientist said that the particle beam was going to travel in a parabolic arc?


Well, I suppose that could have been an effect of the Gamma cannon for some unknown reason but the "compensating for windage" comments had me scratching my head and thinking "It's an energy weapon!".
(And should a Gamma (ray) cannon be emitting a particle beam?)

I could see Thompson and Souza thinking that they had to compensate for windage but Samberly should have known better and it would have added some humor if he corrected them.

Loved the song and dance number though and Angie!


----------



## cheesesteak

I don't pay much attention to the scientific tomfoolery on this show. What surprised me was Jarvis shooting the sh*t out of Whitney Frost. I expected him to bumble through a confrontation and then need a rescue but no, he just walked up and shot her.

Whitney's gangster boyfriend's Nonna cracked me up.

Does Hayley Atwell have song and dance skills? It didn't seem like it.


----------



## busyba

cheesesteak said:


> What surprised me was Jarvis shooting the sh*t out of Whitney Frost. I expected him to bumble through a confrontation and then need a rescue but no, he just walked up and shot her.


I expected it. You could see it in his face well before. I even cheered a little, although I knew that it wouldn't take.


----------



## busyba

JYoung said:


> (And should a Gamma (ray) cannon be emitting a particle beam?)


Yeah, that's my mistake. But particle or energy, over just a half-mile it's going to be, at most, a very flat section of parabola.


----------



## lpwcomp

While technically, the high high energy photons that make up a gamma ray _*are*_ particles, that is not what is generally emitted by a "particle beam".

Travel time is closer to a microsecond than nanoseconds but still the drop due to gravity would be negligible and certainly not adjustable for with the primitive sighting equipment they had.

I was really hoping that someone would be hit by the beam to see if it would turn them green.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

lpwcomp said:


> I was really hoping that someone would be hit by the beam to see if it would turn them green.


Given the way Jason looked at first after he came out of the, well, wherever (with the bulging forehead), I wondered if he was turning into the Leader...


----------



## busyba

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Given the way Jason looked at first after he came out of the, well, wherever (with the bulging forehead), I wondered if he was turning into the Leader...


It made me think of the


Spoiler



bad


 guy Peter Sarsgaard played in the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie:



Spoiler















Although I'm sure there's no relation.

I wonder if it's (Agents of SHIELD spoiler):



Spoiler



Whatever creature was on that planet the portal connected to that finally made it to earth by inhabiting Ward


----------



## JYoung

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Given the way Jason looked at first after he came out of the, well, wherever (with the bulging forehead), I wondered if he was turning into the Leader...


That thought crossed my mind as well.

I googled Jason Wilkes though and found this:
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Jason_Wilkes_(Earth-616)

(No spoilers at the link but it is comic book material.)


----------



## Church AV Guy

lpwcomp said:


> While technically, the high high energy photons that make up a gamma ray _*are*_ particles, that is not what is generally emitted by a "particle beam".
> 
> Travel time is closer to a microsecond than nanoseconds but still the drop due to gravity would be negligible and certainly not adjustable for with the primitive sighting equipment they had.
> 
> I was really hoping that someone would be hit by the beam to see if it would turn them green.


Since gamma rays are photons as are visible light (rays), they both would drop the exact same amount due to gravity. "Sighting" directly would cause a direct hit, because the light used to aim the device would follow the same arc as the gamma rays.


----------



## DevdogAZ

john4200 said:


> But that was the least of the flaws in these last two episodes. There were many more. Perhaps the biggest was when Sousa told them the real location of the uranium rods. WTF? I was thinking how well he and Agent Carter were playing it, making it seem like he was really going to tell them, when he was obviously just going to make up a location that would send them away for a couple hours. But then the imbecile tells them the real location. Unbelievable.


It seems you missed the point of that scene. Sousa told them the real location because he has strong feelings for Peggy and wasn't about to play chicken with her life. And when she confronted him about it later on, he said, "I suppose if the situation were reversed you would have just let them shoot me?" and Peggy paused and didn't answer.

Those two scenes were put there specifically to advance the Peggy/Sousa relationship and the fact that it wasn't the best example of spycraft is kind of irrelevant.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

DevdogAZ said:


> Those two scenes were put there specifically to advance the Peggy/Sousa relationship and the fact that it wasn't the best example of spycraft is kind of irrelevant.


Or, conversely, it is highly relevant...it shows that Sousa places Peggy above good spycraft. And maybe not vice versa.


----------



## john4200

DevdogAZ said:


> It seems you missed the point of that scene. Sousa told them the real location because he has strong feelings for Peggy and wasn't about to play chicken with her life. And when she confronted him about it later on, he said, "I suppose if the situation were reversed you would have just let them shoot me?" and Peggy paused and didn't answer.


Try some logic. It does not matter what Sousa's feelings for Peggy are, only what Wilkes thinks they are. Carter and Sousa did a good job convincing Wilkes that Sousa does care about Carter, and Wilkes is not a trained agent and probably not totally sane, so he could easily be tricked. In his state of mind, it is difficult to say whether he would really hurt Carter or not. Furthermore, Sousa and Carter should realize that it is likely that Wilkes will not be corporeal for long outside of his chamber. If Wilkes was not short of time, the obvious response would be "I'll take you to it, but only if you do not hurt Peggy". But since Wilkes is short of time, the obvious response is to make up a likely sounding location that will take a few hours to check. Since Wilkes has no way of verifying it quickly, he either has to let Peggy go or kill her (if he thinks they are telling the truth), or take her with him to verify.

Telling them the real location does not help keep Peggy alive. In fact, it probably endangers her more, since she will then have to try to stop the bad guys when they are even more powerful. Also, in such a situation, it is standard procedure to lie. Then if they say thanks and shoot you both, you at least did not reveal the location. If they say "now we are going to kill you", then you can just say, "wait, I lied, I'll take you to the real location if you do not hurt us".

And no, I did not miss the "point", if the point is that Sousa is a fool for love. He is a trained and experienced agent, and there is good reason to think that he can control his emotions enough to behave rationally, even in a difficult situation. So when the writers make him into an imbecile, it is a huge flaw in the writing.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or, conversely, it is highly relevant...it shows that Sousa places Peggy above good spycraft. And maybe not vice versa.


Except that I think the later scene where Sousa asked Peggy what she would have done and she didn't answer was their way of saying that she hadn't really thought about it, but when she did, she realized she would have done the same thing because she has feelings for him as well.


----------



## DevdogAZ

john4200 said:


> Try some logic. It does not matter what Sousa's feelings for Peggy are, only what Wilkes thinks they are. Carter and Sousa did a good job convincing Wilkes that Sousa does care about Carter, and Wilkes is not a trained agent and probably not totally sane, so he could easily be tricked. In his state of mind, it is difficult to say whether he would really hurt Carter or not. Furthermore, Sousa and Carter should realize that it is likely that Wilkes will not be corporeal for long outside of his chamber. If Wilkes was not short of time, the obvious response would be "I'll take you to it, but only if you do not hurt Peggy". But since Wilkes is short of time, the obvious response is to make up a likely sounding location that will take a few hours to check. Since Wilkes has no way of verifying it quickly, he either has to let Peggy go (if he thinks they are telling the truth), or take her with him to verify.
> 
> Telling them the real location does not help keep Peggy alive. In fact, it probably endangers her more, since she will then have to try to stop the bad guys when they are even more powerful.
> 
> And no, I did not miss the "point", if the point is that Sousa is a fool for love. He is a trained and experienced agent, and there is good reason to think that he can control his emotions enough to behave rationally, even in a difficult situation. So when the writers make him into an imbecile, it is a huge flaw in the writing.


I knew I'd regret quoting one of your posts.

If the goal of the show is to portray the characters as being super spies that do everything exactly right and by the book, then of course you're right. But I don't think that's the goal of the show. The show is about humans with emotions and it seeks to create drama for the viewers. And it has to create drama on multiple levels in a finite period of time.

If this were a book with an unlimited number of pages, the author could have had the characters do the "correct" thing in that scene and then had another scene where the feelings between the characters are brought out through another method. But in a network TV show with only 41 minutes per episode, sometimes they have to cut corners and have characters do irrational things in order to advance the plot to the place they're trying to go. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. Feel free to pick at the nits, but it just makes you look ignorant and pedantic as a TV viewer if you expect TV shows to be too realistic.


----------



## john4200

DevdogAZ said:


> (insult removed)
> 
> If this were a book with an unlimited number of pages, the author could have had the characters do the "correct" thing in that scene and then had another scene where the feelings between the characters are brought out through another method. But in a network TV show with only 41 minutes per episode, sometimes they have to cut corners and have characters do irrational things in order to advance the plot to the place they're trying to go.
> 
> (name-calling removed)


Actually, no, they do not "have to cut corners". With the same amount of time, there are several ways that the writers could have beat us over the head with Sousa's feelings for Carter, without making him look like a complete imbecile. And it certainly was beating us over the head with it, since they have already made it clear several times.


----------



## DevdogAZ

john4200 said:


> Actually, no, they do not "have to cut corners". With the same amount of time, there are several ways that the writers could have beat us over the head with Sousa's feelings for Carter, without making him look like a complete imbecile. And it certainly was beating us over the head with it, since they have already made it clear several times.


They had to have Sousa act like an idiot in that scene to set up the later scene where Peggy reluctantly realizes she would have done the same thing.

Edit: And for the record, I don't feel like I insulted you or called you names. The "insult" was simply me sharing my feelings as I decided whether or not to respond to one of your posts. And the "name calling" was definitely not. It was a "if you do A, then you are perceived as B" sentence which is not calling you a name, but simply setting out a scenario. It's up to you whether you want to fit into that scenario.


----------



## john4200

DevdogAZ said:


> They had to have Sousa act like an idiot in that scene to set up the later scene where Peggy reluctantly realizes she would have done the same thing.


Actually, no, they did not "have to have Sousa" tell Wilkes the real location. There are any number of other ways they could have Sousa show his devotion (again) to Carter without having Sousa do something that his character would never be stupid or irrational enough to do. For example, Wilkes could have been a few feet away and Sousa could have jumped in front of the gun. Many other modifications can be imagined, but I will refrain from writing any more out.

Best to use this forum as intended for discussing shows, and leave out the personal comments about other people, or send them by PM (which I would have done with this sentence, except your PM box is full).


----------



## hummingbird_206

DevdogAZ said:


> I knew I'd regret quoting one of your posts.


50 lashes with a wet noodle for you!


----------



## alpacaboy

Just starting to watch Whitney questioning Wilkes.
(paraphasing) "You draw zero matter from me when I get close. You can't control it. I tested it when you were still out."
She said it so matter-of-factly. She just has no boundaries, and it's like she doesn't even know. That actually kind of made the scene play comedic to me. (I like that)

Also the "and then you'll let me go?"
(paraphrasing) "Umm... sure."
Realllly convincing there, Whit.


----------



## Drewster

Sad to see the series end. It didn't have quite the same crackle as the first, and suffered scheduling problems, but I adore it anyway. I love the aesthetic, style, wit, and panache.

Moreover, it's _fun_. We have a lot of serious MCU and DCU shows, it's good to have one that's simply _fun_.

Here's to more!


----------



## cheesesteak

Drewster said:


> Sad to see the series end. It didn't have quite the same crackle as the first, and suffered scheduling problems, but I adore it anyway. I love the aesthetic, style, wit, and panache.
> 
> Moreover, it's _fun_. We have a lot of serious MCU and DCU shows, it's good to have one that's simply _fun_.
> 
> Here's to more!


I hope Agent Carter gets renewed. Last season was good but this season knocked the ball out of the park. The show is not only wonderfully acted but like you said, it's a fun ride.

Hayley Atwell. Damn, that's one fine woman.


----------



## busyba

So... 

The dossier with the war crimes report, it seemed pretty clear to me that it said "M. Carter", which would be her brother Mike(?) not her, so I don't get why they didn't notice that. I wonder if the guy who killed Thompson for the file is Mike Carter, who will turn out to not be dead after all. 

When Stark said something about a "project I came up with in Peru", I assume it must be a reference to something in the Marvel universe. Anybody know what? 

And so those club pins are also keys. And they're just going to leave us hanging on that? :/


----------



## ej42137

busyba said:


> So...
> 
> The dossier with the war crimes report, it seemed pretty clear to me that it said "M. Carter", which would be her brother Mike(?) not her, so I don't get why they didn't notice that. I wonder if the guy who killed Thompson for the file is Mike Carter, who will turn out to not be dead after all.


Uh, Peggy Carter's actual name is almost certainly Margret Carter; in fact I think we've seen it that way in hardcopy on the show recently.


----------



## JYoung

busyba said:


> So...
> 
> The dossier with the war crimes report, it seemed pretty clear to me that it said "M. Carter", which would be her brother Mike(?) not her, so I don't get why they didn't notice that. I wonder if the guy who killed Thompson for the file is Mike Carter, who will turn out to not be dead after all.


"M. Carter" stands for "Margaret (Peggy) Carter".

Although your speculation about Mike Carter being the shooter is interesting.



busyba said:


> When Stark said something about a "project I came up with in Peru", I assume it must be a reference to something in the Marvel universe. Anybody know what?


Howard said it was in Malibu but I can't connect it to anything else right now except for Tony's home in the Iron Man movies.
And I don't think that's it.

(Maybe it was the groundwork for Tony harnessing Paladium in IM 2?)



busyba said:


> And so those club pins are also keys. And they're just going to leave us hanging on that? :/


Well, it could also be picked up in Agents of SHIELD.


----------



## busyba

ej42137 said:


> Uh, Peggy Carter's actual name is almost certainly Margret Carter; in fact I think we've seen it that way in hardcopy on the show recently.


Ah. Okay, that had totally flown over my head. 

So that explains why they thought it was about her. I still think it was about Mike and the ambiguity in the file was a deliberate plot point. When Thompson confronted Peggy, she genuinely seemed like she had no idea what he was talking about. I doubt the file was about her.


----------



## busyba

JYoung said:


> Howard said it was in Malibu but I can't connect it to anything else right now expect for Tony's home in the Iron Man movies.
> And I don't think that's it.
> 
> (Maybe it was the groundwork for Tony harnessing Paladium in IM 2?)


He said the labs he's building/built are in Malibu, but the project to be run there was based on an idea he came up with in Peru.

The way he delivered the line, it had the feel of fan service by the writers.


----------



## Drewster

I thought it was pretty obvious that the dossier is genuine, but about Michael -- who was himself in the SEO and recommended his sister Margaret (Peggy).

In the flashback with the young Carter kids, her mother full-named her as Margaret...

Peggy dismissed it as fiction because it's clearly not about her, and she herself has no idea what Michael did for the SEO. From her perspective it's garbage.


----------



## JYoung

busyba said:


> So that explains why they thought it was about her. I still think it was about Mike and the ambiguity in the file was a deliberate plot point. When Thompson confronted Peggy, she genuinely seemed like she had no idea what he was talking about. I doubt the file was about her.


They hinted that it might not be authentic though.
Thompson was commenting to Vernon on how it almost seemed too easy to find.


----------



## busyba

JYoung said:


> They hinted that it might not be authentic though.
> Thompson was commenting to Vernon on how it almost seemed too easy to find.


Sure, but apparently it's worth killing for, so who knows?


----------



## JYoung

busyba said:


> He said the labs he's building/built are in Malibu, but the project to be run there was based on an idea he came up with in Peru.
> 
> The way he delivered the line, it had the feel of fan service by the writers.


Right, I'm basing the Tony's house bit on Howard saying that the project would be located in Malibu.

I didn't pick up anything about the fact that he thought about it while in Peru as anything particularly meaningful.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

JYoung said:


> Thompson was commenting to Vernon on how it almost seemed too easy to find.


I took that as suspicious that it was so easy to find (i.e., somebody put it in their path to discredit Peggy), not necessarily suspicious that it exists...


----------



## JYoung

busyba said:


> Sure, but apparently it's worth killing for, so who knows?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> I took that as suspicious that it was so easy to find (i.e., somebody put it in their path to discredit Peggy), not necessarily suspicious that it exists...


Well, considering the show is set right before the time of the HUAC, a time when even a suggestion of consorting with Communists could ruin lives, using fabricated evidence against an insubordinate agent who also happens to be a foreign woman would probably be enough to get her in lots of trouble.

Of course, the show was fairly ambiguous here.


----------



## zordude

busyba said:


> He said the labs he's building/built are in Malibu, but the project to be run there was based on an idea he came up with in Peru.
> 
> The way he delivered the line, it had the feel of fan service by the writers.


I was wondering if it is the full size Arc reactor.


----------



## cheesesteak

I'm not sure I want to see a Peggy/Sousa romance if and when the show returns.

Was this the first time we saw Howard Stark's hover car? How did Coulson get one?

Why Marvels Agent Carter Should Battle On


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## JYoung

cheesesteak said:


> Was this the first time we saw Howard Stark's hover car? How did Coulson get one?


We saw Version 1 of the hover car in the first Captain American movie.

Coulson got one because Howard co-founded SHIELD and probably built a number of them for SHIELD.


----------



## Drewster

As Frost rattled off the names of Howard's designs, did anyone else think they sounded like early versions of Iron Man tech? I'm pretty sure she said "well, if he's building an arc reactor", and there was one that sounded like repulsors.


----------



## cmontyburns

Drewster said:


> In the flashback with the young Carter kids, her mother full-named her as Margaret...


Thompson even called her "Marge" when agreeing to get everyone take-out. "I'm going to do that for you, Marge."


----------



## randian

Anybody else missing SkipMode on the 3/1 episode? My recording of the 2/23 episode has it.


----------



## morac

SkipMode was there for me.


----------



## TonyD79

Me too.


----------



## randian

morac said:


> SkipMode was there for me.


I can't explain it then. No SkipMode and the jerks at the local affiliate preempted the first 8 minutes with election coverage.


----------



## morac

randian said:


> I can't explain it then. No SkipMode and the jerks at the local affiliate preempted the first 8 minutes with election coverage.


The preemption may be why.


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## busyba

morac said:


> The preemption may be why.


That would be my guess as well.

I don't know for certain, but I imagine the skip mode feature is implemented by the service data sending index data indicating the points where each block starts (rather than somehow detecting the next block on the fly), and it would be prohibitively complex to do that for every local affiliate individually.

I'ts not immediately obvious to me, however, how they were able to know to disable the feature for that specific local broadcast.


----------



## TeddS

According to this site, renewed for season 3.

http://nerdreactor.com/2016/03/04/exclusive-agent-carter-to-be-renewed-for-season-3/


----------



## TonyD79

busyba said:


> That would be my guess as well. I don't know for certain, but I imagine the skip mode feature is implemented by the service data sending index data indicating the points where each block starts (rather than somehow detecting the next block on the fly), and it would be prohibitively complex to do that for every local affiliate individually. I'ts not immediately obvious to me, however, how they were able to know to disable the feature for that specific local broadcast.


Maybe they didn't. Maybe the data keys off something at the start of the show which was missing.


----------



## DevdogAZ

TeddS said:


> According to this site, renewed for season 3.
> 
> http://nerdreactor.com/2016/03/04/exclusive-agent-carter-to-be-renewed-for-season-3/


Great news if true. And it would really show how having the intellectual property, production studio, and broadcast network all commonly owned can allow a show to be profitable even with very low ratings.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Now if only they would allow a little competition for the blu-ray sales.

Or hell, allow blu-ray sales at all, which they're not doing at the moment.


----------



## cmontyburns

I need to post some thoughts overall about season two, which I thought was, frankly, something close to outright bad (despite a few bright spots). Nonetheless, there is a good foundation here, and I'd like to see F&B get one more chance to do something with it. So hopefully this "exclusive" turns out to be correct.


----------



## DevdogAZ

I'm surprised nobody has commented on how ridiculous it was that they decided to open the rift right in the middle of the studio backlot, rather not than going out into the desert like they did the previous week. They had no way to know if the reaction would stay contained within a finite area or if it would damage all the buildings and sets around that area. 

And the CGI of the zero matter was laughably bad. 

But I still enjoy the show and find the characters lots of fun, especially Jarvis and Stark. And anything they can do to keep Haley Atwell on my TV screen gets a thumbs up from me.


----------



## hummingbird_206

DevdogAZ said:


> But I still enjoy the show and find the characters lots of fun, especially Jarvis and Stark. And anything they can do to keep Haley Atwell on my TV screen gets a thumbs up from me.


This is the whole reason I love this show. To me, it's all about the characters, not the special effects, and certainly not the plot. I love these characters and the actors who portray them.


----------



## busyba

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm surprised nobody has commented on how ridiculous it was that they decided to open the rift right in the middle of the studio backlot, rather not than going out into the desert like they did the previous week. They had no way to know if the reaction would stay contained within a finite area or if it would damage all the buildings and sets around that area.


Stark owned the studio, so presumably he didn't care if the buildings and sets got damaged.

That being said, I have no idea why they didn't just go out into the desert. I don't think they gave any reason for it either.

But obviously the reason _the writers_ set it in the studio backlot was because they needed a lamppost for Souza to tie himself to. 

In Soviet Russia, the lantern hangs _you!_


----------



## morac

busyba said:


> But obviously the reason _the writers_ set it in the studio backlot was because they needed a lamppost for Souza to tie himself to.


That whole scene was ridiculous since it was previously shown that the rift can pick up whole cars and trucks. Yet a few people were heavy enough to hold down Souza.


----------



## danterner

busyba said:


> In Soviet Russia, the lantern hangs you!


Literally laughing out loud


----------



## busyba

morac said:


> That whole scene was ridiculous since it was previously shown that the rift can pick up whole cars and trucks. Yet a few people were heavy enough to hold down Souza.


I wonder if the gravitational force of the rift is proportional to the size of the rift, and if the rift created by the nuclear explosion was perhaps several orders of magnitude larger than the one created by the rift generator.

Wilkes said that the rift they were creating was going to suck in anything closer than 20 feet. IIRC, the original rift we saw in the archive footage grabbed stuff that was considerably farther away than that.

I imagine that that would make the Souza thing arguably plausible, at least.


----------



## DevdogAZ

busyba said:


> I wonder if the gravitational force of the rift is proportional to the size of the rift, and if the rift created by the nuclear explosion was perhaps several orders of magnitude larger than the one created by the rift generator.
> 
> Wilkes said that the rift they were creating was going to suck in anything closer than 20 feet. IIRC, the original rift we saw in the archive footage grabbed stuff that was considerably farther away than that.
> 
> I imagine that that would make the Souza thing arguably plausible, at least.


But that's the point. How could they possibly know what the properties of the rift are, and how big it would be or how far its effects would reach?

Even if Howard Stark doesn't care about the money involved if the buildings gets damaged, what about having to deal with the questions from the authorities and the public, and the inconvenience of rescheduling studio operations while things get rebuilt. It just made zero sense to conduct that experiment in the back lot.

Except for the lamp post. I'll give you that.


----------



## busyba

DevdogAZ said:


> But that's the point. How could they possibly know what the properties of the rift are, and how big it would be or how far its effects would reach?


It's certainly a stretch, but if you're going to accept that they were able to even open a rift in the first place, then you have to be able to give them credit, even begrudgingly, for being able to make those calculations. Also, they had a ton of notes from Frost, who apparently was a sooper-genius, so that probably helped.



> ...and the inconvenience of rescheduling studio operations while things get rebuilt...


The other points are valid, but I just wanted to highlight this part and point out that he probably didn't care at all about that because his venture as a movie studio boss and movie director was more about being able to meet pretty actresses than actually making movies.


----------



## DevdogAZ

busyba said:


> The other points are valid, but I just wanted to highlight this part and point out that he probably didn't care at all about that because his venture as a movie studio boss and movie director was more about being able to meet pretty actresses than actually making movies.


Good point. So any delays in movie schedules as a result of this stupid stunt would mean fewer chances for Stark to meet actresses. Yet another reason why they should have gone to the desert.


----------



## busyba

DevdogAZ said:


> Good point. So any delays in movie schedules as a result of this stupid stunt would mean fewer chances for Stark to meet actresses. Yet another reason why they should have gone to the desert.


He can still hold "auditions".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Maybe the actress he was hooked up with at the moment was especially appealing, and thus any delay in her movie's production was welcome?


----------



## lpwcomp

I did think of two reasons for the location - power & concealment.


----------



## JYoung

DevdogAZ said:


> But that's the point. How could they possibly know what the properties of the rift are, and how big it would be or how far its effects would reach?
> 
> Even if Howard Stark doesn't care about the money involved if the buildings gets damaged, what about having to deal with the questions from the authorities and the public, and the inconvenience of rescheduling studio operations while things get rebuilt. It just made zero sense to conduct that experiment in the back lot.
> 
> Except for the lamp post. I'll give you that.


The lamp post and $$$$.
As in it may have been too expensive to shoot on location in Santa Clarita again, as opposed to shooting in the controlled Disney backlot in Burbank.


----------



## cmontyburns

JYoung said:


> As in it may have been too expensive to shoot on location in Santa Clarita again, as opposed to shooting in the controlled Disney backlot in Burbank.


This is 100% the reason, of course, no matter what narrative explanations get put to it.


----------



## NJChris

Penny was passed out drunk in the desert. They couldn't open the rift there.


----------



## tvmaster2

DevdogAZ said:


> .....But I still enjoy the show and find the characters lots of fun, especially Jarvis and Stark. And anything they can do to keep Haley Atwell on my TV screen gets a thumbs up from me.


+1 there. I was kinda hoping she'd be the first female Doctor Who, but I guess that's not going to happen 
The only thing I'd wish they'd pay more attention to is 1940's film-noir dialogue. Nobody ever said "give us the room" back then.
They need to keep the humor, reduce cheesy effects, and find a way to bring her into 2016 for a three-show, fish-out-of-water arc.
The season finale was a little soft, but there you go.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

tvmaster2 said:


> +1 there. I was kinda hoping she'd be the first female Doctor Who, but I guess that's not going to happen


Why not? If they wait two years or thirty, it could be her...


----------



## tvmaster2

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Why not? If they wait two years or thirty, it could be her...


that's true. fingers crossed for sooner than later.


----------



## Hunter Green

I haven't looked at this thread as I was way behind on the show, and we finally caught up. I found season two's tone very different from season one, with a lot more humor and silliness, but I thought they did a good job of having it woven into, and not taking away from, the emotional stakes, which they made higher -- particularly for Jarvis. I thought they did a great job with it. Also the through-line seemed more coherent to me this time. I can see how people might feel a let-down compared to all the newness of the first season, and the slow peeling back of mysteries like Dotty, but I think it did as well as a season two can do by moving on instead of trying to sustain that novelty factor.

Did miss the radio shows and other reminders of the time period, though. We got a lot less of them this time, and they were a lot less obvious.

There also seemed to be a few shots where they went out of their way to show off Hayley's body, some of which felt strained. She doesn't really need to be leaning into the camera for us to remember what a knockout she is. That red dress she wore during the production number (!) was perfectly demure and still showed her off wonderfully, for instance.


----------



## Generic

Heres Why Netflix Passed on Agent Carter


----------



## dianebrat

Generic said:


> Heres Why Netflix Passed on Agent Carter


There's a lot more to that story.. 
http://www.themarysue.com/jeph-loeb-on-agent-carter/


----------



## DevdogAZ

dianebrat said:


> There's a lot more to that story.. http://www.themarysue.com/jeph-loeb-on-agent-carter/


The writer of that article seems very out of touch with how the TV industry works. I think the chances of Agent Carter being renewed by ABC after S2 were less than 5%. And the people at Marvel had to know that as well. Paul Lee, the previous president of ABC had been widely criticized for bringing back Agent Carter and Galavant after they had such low ratings in S1, and many credit those decisions as a big reason why he was fired after both shows aired their second seasons and fared even worse. There was almost no way the new president of ABC was not about to repeat those mistakes when she's only been on the job a few months.


----------



## Random User 7

So while waiting for Loki I’ve found this show to watch. Hopefully it will be good. Ratings look nice so that he me hopeful.


----------



## eddyj

I loved it. Hated it was only one season.


----------



## laria

eddyj said:


> I loved it. Hated it was only one season.


----------



## morac

eddyj said:


> I loved it. Hated it was only one season.


There were 2 seasons.


----------



## eddyj

They were so short it felt like one! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


----------



## NorthAlabama

eddyj said:


> They were so short it felt like one! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


yes, it seemed it was over before it barely got started, and what a bummer, i really liked the series.


----------



## laria

eddyj said:


> They were so short it felt like one! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


I really couldn't tell if you were making a joke like you didn't like the second season so it didn't exist.


----------



## Drewster

There is an argument that it has one valid season.


----------



## aaronwt

Wow!! Has it really been that long since Agent Carter was on?

Sent from my Tab S6 Lite Blue


----------



## cmontyburns

This is a series I would have liked to see made by the more newly-capable Marvel TV division. What we got was enjoyable but an awful lot of problems were compensated for by Hayley Atwell's magnetic presence.


----------



## Drewster

I’d love to see the new crew pick it up again. Let’s see Peggy Carter in the Fifties building SHIELD.


----------



## Allanon

Drewster said:


> I'd love to see the new crew pick it up again. Let's see Peggy Carter in the Fifties building SHIELD.


I just heard that Disney is doing a reboot of the Netflix Marvel shows so maybe there is hope.



Spoiler



It would be cool if they do a Peggy Carter after Steve Rogers went back in time.


----------



## smak

Allanon said:


> I just heard that Disney is doing a reboot of the Netflix Marvel shows so maybe there is hope.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It would be cool if they do a Peggy Carter after Steve Rogers went back in time.


Not necessarily the shows, but the characters. They might not appear in their own show.

-smak-


----------



## Drewster

Kevin Fiege has said flattering things about the Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Cage shows. I would not be surprised to see them again, if an opportunity appears, and if the actors’ exclusivity clause expires, and if they’re willing and available.

(I was delighted to see Sharon Carter again in Falcon and Winter Soldier. But she felt under utilized, perhaps because Emily Van Kamp now has her own show.)


----------



## cheesesteak

Drewster said:


> Kevin Fiege has said flattering things about the Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Cage shows. I would not be surprised to see them again, if an opportunity appears, and if the actors' exclusivity clause expires, and if they're willing and available.


I wouldn't mind seeing a continuation of those series on Disney+. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing more Iron Fist either since its second season was so much better than its first.


----------



## Random User 7

Is Agent Carter a: solve a crime per episode type of show or it builds the entire season to something? The first episode was a bit boring and only Ms. Atwell kept me interested. I do know to give it a few episodes though to get going.


----------



## cheesesteak

Random User 7 said:


> Is Agent Carter a: solve a crime per episode type of show or it builds the entire season to something? The first episode was a bit boring and only Ms. Atwell kept me interested. I do know to give it a few episodes though to get going.


Each episode builds until the finale.


----------



## aaronwt

cheesesteak said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing a continuation of those series on Disney+. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing more Iron Fist either since its second season was so much better than its first.


That second season is the only marvel season I did not watch on Netflix. Because the first season was so bad. I guess I need to watch that second Iron Fist season one day?


----------



## Random User 7

aaronwt said:


> That second season is the only marvel season I did not watch on Netflix. Because the first season was so bad. I guess I need to watch that second Iron Fist season one day?


No, no you don't.


----------



## Drewster

Random User 7 said:


> No, no you don't.


Concur.


----------



## Allanon

This is the article I read about the Netflix Marvel TV shows reboot on Disney:

What To Expect From Marvel's Netflix TV Series Reboots


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Allanon said:


> This is the article I read about the Netflix Marvel TV shows reboot on Disney:
> 
> What To Expect From Marvel's Netflix TV Series Reboots


The article's writer doesn't even know that the Neflix series were already IN the MCU!


----------



## cheesesteak

I was really into that article until the last sentence where the author says it's all speculation at this point.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

cheesesteak said:


> I was really into that article until the last sentence where the author says it's all speculation at this point.


And again, speculation by somebody who literally doesn't know what he's talking about.


----------

