# 20.4.1 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret

We will begin updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with 20.4.1 "Spring Update" later today.

Here are some of the changes:
- addressed issues where customers were seeing V112 errors when trying to stream between boxes
- improved interaction with HDMI, and fixed cases where TiVo Mini was rebooting due to HDMI issues
- improvements to Netflix stability
- improvements to Roamio WiFi connectivity
- fixed a network flakiness issue for wired Ethernet Roamio boxes that had previously been connected to WiFi
- turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior
- reduced the cases where a black screen appeared after watching a video
- YouTube and Opera Store Apps should now work with all video resolutions (not just 720p and greater)
- created a new V311 error message when an app requires 720p support, and the box has that resolution disabled
- support for playing cable video on demand on a DVR and a Mini simultaneously (or 2 Minis simultaneously) *if* the cable company's configuration supports it
- improved handling and messaging of C133 errors, and added a reference to our new site for updates related to outages: http://status.tivo.com
- VOD and apps can now be launched in C133 mode
- new "Default Recording Options" screen inside Settings > Recording to set your preferred "Keep at most", New/Reruns settings, and padding for new Season Passes and WishLists.

The update should be available some time after 4:30pm PT for those that signed up at http://tivo.com/priority yesterday. We will continue to update any new priority sign-ups every few days. If you decide not to sign up for the priority list, your box will automatically update some time within the next 30 days.

--Margret

P.S. We have some cool stuff lined up for the "Summer Update". It is a great time to join our Beta program if you want to be part of the (secret) inner circle: https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/signup/default.html


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## southerndoc

No Mini UI update?


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## skid71

geekmedic said:


> No Mini UI update?


/\/\/\ This. Bummer.

Yay for overlapping recordings being fixed.


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## tarheelblue32

geekmedic said:


> No Mini UI update?







I'm just glad they are finally fixing the HDMI handshake/Mini reboot issue. It is very annoying. It was happening so often with one of my Minis (almost daily) that I finally broke down and ordered the component breakout cables just to avoid HDMI altogether.


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## andyf

TiVoMargret said:


> The update should be available some time after 4:30pm PT for those that signed up at http://tivo.com/priority yesterday.


I'm sure you meant before and including yesterday.


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## kbmb

TiVoMargret said:


> - turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior


Great that it's turned off so I can start padding again.
Bad that you weren't able to fix it to work. Would have been a cool technology.

-Kevin


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## monkeydust

geekmedic said:


> No Mini UI update?


Or Amazon Prime. 

Like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys and Santa passes us over yet another year....


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## sbiller

TiVoMargret said:


> - improved handling and messaging of C133 errors, and added a reference to our new site for updates related to outages: http://status.tivo.com


:up:


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## mpack

Thanks Margret.

I hope the "cool stuff" includes an UltraViolet enabled application like VuDu. The Roamio feels like old technology without one.


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## tarheelblue32

monkeydust said:


> Or Amazon Prime.
> 
> Like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys and Santa passes us over yet another year....


Amazon Prime would be nice to have, but it's much more important to fix known glitches than to add on new functionality. They've clearly focused on working out all the major bugs in this update, and that was the right thing for them to do.


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## sbiller

tarheelblue32 said:


> Amazon Prime would be nice to have, but it's much more important to fix known glitches than to add on nuw functionality. They've clearly focused on working out all the bugs in this update, and that's the right thing to do.


It doesn't take a software update for a new app.


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## Bigg

monkeydust said:


> Or Amazon Prime.
> 
> Like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys and Santa passes us over yet another year....


1. Roku
2. FireTV

Finally have default recording options. FINALLY.


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## CloudAtlas

mpack said:


> Thanks Margret.
> 
> I hope the "cool stuff" includes an UltraViolet enabled application like VuDu. The Roamio feels like old technology without one.


Right, because nothing says state-of-the-art like UltraViolet.


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## Philmatic

C133 error mitigation is welcome, as well as disabling the overlapping recording/shared buffer thing are good fixes, thank you Margret.

Nobody is discussing the "Default Recording Options"? This is great, it is rare to see TiVo make an addition to the core DVR experience, nice.


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## shrike4242

Philmatic said:


> C133 error mitigation is welcome, as well as disabling the overlapping recording/shared buffer thing are good fixes, thank you Margret.
> 
> Nobody is discussing the "Default Recording Options"? This is great, it is rare to see TiVo make an addition to the core DVR experience, nice.


Just noticed that in the notes. That's a huge help, so we won't have to set it on all SPs individually if we primarily set up a SP in a specific way.

It'll be nice to see that when it's installed.


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## keithg1964

- turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior

Did you turn off the feature or did you fix the problem with the feature?


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## sbiller

keithg1964 said:


> - turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior
> 
> Did you turn off the feature or did you fix the problem with the feature?


I suppose we will find out soon enough...

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/345


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## truman861

I am signed up at Tivo trials site and never got anything by email or anything else to beta test anything, never have. I would love to take part in something - PLEASE ? - Anything ?

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 Tivo Mini's (living room and kids rooms)
3 x Premiers (retired)
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay - Moving to Verizon Fios


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## BlackBetty

TiVoMargret said:


> P.S. We have some cool stuff lined up for the "Summer Update". It is a great time to join our Beta program if you want to be part of the (secret) inner circle: https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/signup/default.html


You may want to synch up with Melissa at TiVo because this is the response I got back from her today.



> Thanks for your interest in beta testing. However, our beta programs are currently full. We will contact you if a future opportunity arises, but please note that there are no guarantees since we have a large database of candidates.


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## ggieseke

keithg1964 said:


> - turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior
> 
> Did you turn off the feature or did you fix the problem with the feature?


That's my question too. I'd much rather have a minor glitch in the video than use 2 tuners for overlapping recordings on the same channel.


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## kbmb

ggieseke said:


> That's my question too. I'd much rather have a minor glitch in the video than use 2 tuners for overlapping recordings on the same channel.


The problem wasn't limited to just the glitch. Because of what they were doing, the Tivo could sometimes not record one of the programs because "No longer in guide". Also, sometimes recordings would combine entire programs or multiple programs.

The way I read Margret's notes.....sounds like they just turned it back off again. Remember, I think it's active as a mistake, as it was turned off in a previous update, and then turned back on in the Nov update.

-Kevin


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## cherry ghost

What about the bug that creates a manual recording when you add padding to a single episode of a show you have a Season Pass for and the padding doesn't get applied?


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## kbmb

keithg1964 said:


> - turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior
> 
> Did you turn off the feature or did you fix the problem with the feature?


Looks like it was pulled:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/451849045741690880
-Kevin


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## supasta

My Mini cannot get passed Error S03. I've forced the connection several times and rebooted. Same error.


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## DTxAg

TiVoMargret said:


> P.S. We have some cool stuff lined up for the "Summer Update".


I'd settle for decent parental controls reinstated. Recently sent an email to Tivo that we would buy a Roamio and 4 Minis, but we're sticking with our S3s until they offer something better than the currently-pathetic parental controls.


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## windracer

tarheelblue32 said:


> [I'm just glad they are finally fixing the HDMI handshake/Mini reboot issue. It is very annoying. It was happening so often with one of my Minis (almost daily) that I finally broke down and ordered the component breakout cables just to avoid HDMI altogether.


Same here ... I had to get a cheap monoprice HDMI switch to put between the Mini and my Sony TV to keep the Mini from rebooting every time I turned on the TV. Looking foward to this fix for sure!


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## monkeydust

Bigg said:


> 1. Roku
> 2. FireTV


So we have to find the tv remote and the av remote and switch to another device. That is too much to handle for my simpleton family.


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## mattack

TiVoMargret said:


> - turned off the troublesome "overlapping recordings" behavior


Darn, does that mean it does NOT use the same tuner? Will the ACTUAL bug be fixed in the future and the shared tuner be enabled again? While I do have a Roamio, once in a rare while there is a time I want to record a LOT of shows, and I need padding on a HUGE amount of SPs.. So I'd prefer the feature be *fixed* rather than the entire feature be turned off.



TiVoMargret said:


> - new "Default Recording Options" screen inside Settings > Recording to set your preferred "Keep at most", New/Reruns settings, and padding for new Season Passes and WishLists.


AWESOME. The Tivo should have had this from day 1!!!


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## mrizzo80

I've noticed a small set of glitches with this build when transitioning from HD to SD screens. Drilling into the top-level Settings menu screen results in some weird video output ("stacks" of vertical white dots). Not a big deal. Also, perhaps related and more important, the dreaded loud burst-of-static audio also gets triggered here... which definitely needs to be fixed IMO. 

The video glitch happens every time; the audio glitch is a bit more random... though I've already heard it twice since upgrading this evening.


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## Sixto

Noticed that they changed a few of the settings menus to HD. The screens in the Recording options area.


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## Philmatic

Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like:


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## TiVoMargret

supasta said:


> My Mini cannot get passed Error S03. I've forced the connection several times and rebooted. Same error.


If you have the S03 error, please email [email protected] your TSN, with the subject: "S03 Error".

Thanks,
--Margret


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## kbmb

Margret, 

Where would you like issues reported? In this thread only?

Want to make sure they are visible to you. 

-Kevin


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## Sixto

Updates all 7 boxes. 2 Pro's, 1 Plus, 4 Mini's. 

One small glitch on one of the Pro's where I hit the down arrow on the My Shows screen and the cursor jumped down several lines when I just pressed it once. RF Slider Pro remote. 

iPad app thinks I'm away from home and I'm on the home network. 

Will stress this over the weekend.


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## Sixto

Just tried to play a recording from a remote Pro on my main Pro, got v125 error. Rebooting now to see if this helps.


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## Sixto

Reboot solved the v125 and the iPad connect issue. Rebooting the other two now.

Update: all work now. My guess is that they all needed to be upgraded and all rebooted to recognize that they're together on the same network. We'll see.


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## morac

Is this a quick update or one of those "up to an hour or more" updates?


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## gbruyn

Margret --- Any improvements/updates to Outside the Home Streaming problems and issues?


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## supasta

TiVoMargret said:


> If you have the S03 error, please email [email protected] your TSN, with the subject: "S03 Error".
> 
> Thanks,
> --Margret


Darn. I wish I would have contacted you first. I was able to correct the problem, but it took a while.

I had to first update the host Roamio Pro box. I then performed a Clear and Delete Everything on the Mini. The update caused a complete reset to the network settings on the host Roamio box (the Mini was unable to see the Roamio at all, neither MoCA or ethernet worked. There were no network connection settings present in the Settings>Network menu) So, I needed to setup the MoCA settings again. I then completed guided setup on the Mini and all is now working as expected. I

t appears that I will need to adjust my display and video settings. It seems that the Settings menus are a different resolution than prior to the update? I am unable to see the settings menus in my current setup, all worked fine prior to the update.

Again, thank you Margaret. I should have just contacted you when I encountered the problem initially. Thank you for being so present and available.


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## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## kbmb

Have a Roamio Basic and Plus. Both hardwired via Cat6. Both updated this evening.

When I go to transfer (not stream) but actually move a program from the Basic to the Plus......the Plus gets REALLY sluggish. To the point where I will get black screens, the little blue spinning circle, C133 errors, etc.

The transfer seems to go fine.....but man, something is up with this. Never used to have an issue before this update.

*UPDATE:* Tried transferring the other way, from the Plus to the Basic.....same issue. The Basic gets really sluggish. Easy test is bringing up the SP Manager. During a transfer, it's slow to load. Not during a transfer and it's lightning quick. Seems they are maybe giving too much CPU to the transfer process.

*UPDATE 2:* The tivo the show is being transferred to even has a hard time playing the program while it transferring. Stutters, black screens audio dropouts. It's like tivo is giving the transfer process all CPU cycles.

-Kevin


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## kbmb

Another issue, not sure if it's new or not......during a Roamio to Roamio transfer, if you highlight the transferring show and hit clear to stop it, and you choose Stop and Delete.....it stops the transfer, but doesn't delete the partial recording.

-Kevin


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## Sixto

morac said:


> Is this a quick update or one of those "up to an hour or more" updates?


It took a while, Mini was quicker then Pro/Plus. I'd say at least 20-30 minutes start to finish for me.


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## slowbiscuit

Philmatic said:


> Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like


This should have been done 10 years ago, IMO. Another basic user option that Tivo decided not to implement until forever.


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## Sixto

Philmatic said:


> Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like ...


And they changed all those screens in the Recording Settings area to HD. You go from HD, to SD for Settings, to HD for those Recording settings. With PiG, if you have that enabled.


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## innocentfreak

slowbiscuit said:


> This should have been done 10 years ago, IMO. Another basic user option that Tivo decided not to implement until forever.


The thing is the Series 1 and Series 2 had this.


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## cherry ghost

nooneuknow said:


> *On the enhanced same-tuner overlapping recordings "glitch" matter, as a "to all who may be concerned" post:*
> 
> I have far worse issues to deal with/gripe about, than a <1 second glitch when the same tuner is used, rather than switching tuners for an overlap. This has not even been on my list of annoyances, at all.
> 
> I had to go looking for the behavior described before it stood out over my lousy Cox service (which I have spent far too much of my time trying to get Cox to admit it is their network, and not my equipment).
> 
> [SARCASTIC TONE] So, "thanks", to all the vocal people, who have perfect cable TV networks, and just had to hammer away over a glitch so small, that if you blinked, you could possibly miss it, for getting this enhanced feature I used and liked disabled. [/SARCASTIC TONE]
> 
> Now I have to UNDO all the changes I made on my SPs to use the new overlapping method. Spread across my three base Roamios, that hundreds of Season Passes that are currently conflict-free, which will now change to conflicts.
> 
> I don't have the luxury of using the 6-tuner models. I was forced to go with a 4-tuner base Roamio, in order to insure my TiVos can be used, should I have to cord-cut for financial and other possible scenarios in my future.
> 
> In hindsight, why was there never a poll, at all, about the enhanced overlap handling? Some good questions would have included: how many tuners, if you used the feature, if you were bothered by it enough to want it disabled, and the best one being *"WOULD YOU LIKE THE CHOICE TO TURN THIS OVERLAP HANDLING METHOD ON OR OFF?"*
> 
> I've seen so many posts stating "If it doesn't work perfectly, it shouldn't be released until it is", specific to this glitch. If that's valid logic, then all TiVos should be recalled, and TiVo should/would never release a product. We'd all be stuck with lousy MSO DVRs (and the same logic should apply with MSO TiVos, as well), or a very short list of very short-featured retail products, or building HTPCs.
> 
> IMO, this sucks. I have far greater issues with HDMI and the internal graphics scaler, than this glitch.
> 
> How would you like it if TiVo just turned off everything that isn't "perfect"?
> 
> Going forward, I'd much rather have a way to enable/disable features with glitches. I'd think "backdoor" type codes would be best, like the ones for changing how many active tuners the TiVo has, rather than clutter up the UI, and confuse those who may be new to TiVo, or are used to how TiVo tends to keep the menus somewhat consistent, and can't handle change/progress.
> 
> If the "fixed" Netflix isn't perfect, the mentioned "logic", should mean we should expect Netflix to be turned-off on the Summer Release, right? If so, it should have never been available in the first place, right?
> 
> There's a few I've seen praise the enhanced overlapping, and give TiVo some credit for finally trying to implement something that has been felt as "missing" from the product, by many, for a long, long time.
> 
> Now I'm off to go undo all the changes I made to use the enhanced overlap recording method, thanks to the "Turn it off until it works perfectly" crowd.
> 
> After that, I guess I should make a list of every other TiVo feature, currently turned on, which are not working perfectly, and thus, should be disabled (going by the logic and tone of those who kicked TiVo in the teeth, for actually trying to innovate, and add features, as opposed to the days of litigation for money, while letting their products stagnate).


The <1 second glitch wasn't the only problem. Some were missing entire recordings. If they had a large pad, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th show wouldn't record at all. Turning this off for now was the right thing to do, IMO.


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## andyf

cherry ghost said:


> The <1 second glitch wasn't the only problem. Some were missing entire recordings. If they had a large pad, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th show wouldn't record at all. Turning this off for now was the right thing to do, IMO.


Thank you for pointing this out to him, it was waaay more than a 1 second glitch. It also involved the second manual recording when a show, as part of a season pass, had it's options changed.


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## DarcyM

Missed a recording last night due to error: "Problem Getting Tuner"

This was a overlapping recording, but there was 3 tuners free, so not sure what the problem could of been.

Roamio basic with motorola cable card (comcast, no tuning adapter), with latest firmware. Never had this error before, but I have had the error that claims the program was no longer in the guide before. So looks like the risk of missed recordings is still alive


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## aaronwt

truman861 said:


> I am signed up at Tivo trials site and never got anything by email or anything else to beta test anything, never have. I would love to take part in something - PLEASE ? - Anything ?
> 
> Roamio Plus (Master)
> 3 Tivo Mini's (living room and kids rooms)
> 3 x Premiers (retired)
> Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
> Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
> MoCA
> CC: Cisco PK802
> TA: Cisco STA1520
> T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay - Moving to Verizon Fios


Now that I rely on my six tuner Roamio Pro for most of my content, I would not want to subject it to any beta content. Because if testing out some beta code causes issues, I could be screwed with my recordings. That's one of the disadvantages of having all your eggs in one basket.


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## aaronwt

Philmatic said:


> Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like:


What is the default? I hope the default is the same as before. I certainly don't want any padding as a default or to keep all shows. I rarely have shows that need padding and if all the shows got kept, I would run out of space on the 3TB drive very quickly. I'll need to remember to check my Roamio Pro when I get home tonight.


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## kbmb

aaronwt said:


> What is the default? I hope the default is the same as before. I certainly don't want any padding as a default or to keep all shows. I rarely have shows that need padding and if all the shows got kept, I would run out of space on the 3TB drive very quickly. I'll need to remember to check my Roamio Pro when I get home tonight.


Default is the same as before, New & reruns, Stop On time, Start On time.

This just allows you change what Tivo asks you to do when setting up a recording or SP.

-Kevin


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## tatergator1

kbmb said:


> Default is the same as before, New & reruns, Stop On time, Start On time.
> 
> This just allows you change what Tivo asks you to do when setting up a recording or SP.
> 
> -Kevin


And "Keep At Most" is 10 by default.


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## sbiller

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-04/minor-tivo-spring-update-deployed/


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## aristoBrat

cherry ghost said:


> The <1 second glitch wasn't the only problem. Some were missing entire recordings. If they had a large pad, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th show wouldn't record at all. Turning this off for now was the right thing to do, IMO.


x2 on mentioning that to him.

He's in the mountain time zone, so he's probably never had to add a large pad to Season Passes for CBS's Sunday night schedule (60 Minutes, The Amazing Race, The Good Wife, The Mentalist, 11PM local news) in order to accommodate for the live afternoon sports running late and delaying the start of every show mentioned above by a different number of minutes each week.

As you said, adding a large pad to a Season Pass can cause other Season Passes to not record at all.

Shame on me for being so vocal about such a _glitch so small_.


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## rgr

Copying this from the other thread:

Sounds good. Just got the update and reboot complete. Do like the extra recording options.

Only oddity (so far) is that AOL.On is listed twice in My Video Providers Setting. Anybody else have this? 

I've rebooted twice and Aol.com duplication still there. Attached is a photo of the relevant screen (how do I have it displayed in-post?)


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## andyf

rgr said:


> Copying this from the other thread:
> 
> Sounds good. Just got the update and reboot complete. Do like the extra recording options.
> 
> Only oddity (so far) is that AOL.On is listed twice in My Video Providers Setting. Anybody else have this?
> 
> I've rebooted twice and Aol.com duplication still there. Attached is a photo of the relevant screen (how do I have it displayed in-post?)


I think I've seen this in the past. It goes away after time.


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## jwbelcher

TiVoMargret said:


> - improved handling and messaging of C133 errors, and added a reference to our new site for updates related to outages: http://status.tivo.com


Very nice!


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## aaronwt

rgr said:


> Copying this from the other thread:
> 
> Sounds good. Just got the update and reboot complete. Do like the extra recording options.
> 
> Only oddity (so far) is that AOL.On is listed twice in My Video Providers Setting. Anybody else have this?
> 
> I've rebooted twice and Aol.com duplication still there. Attached is a photo of the relevant screen (how do I have it displayed in-post?)


You don't even have it checked.


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## rgr

aaronwt said:


> You don't even have it checked.


So? I shouldn't report or ask about a glitch because it doesn't affect me or because I've found a workaround?


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## kbmb

aaronwt said:


> You don't even have it checked.


I think that's why he called it an "oddity" and not a problem.

-Kevin


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## midas

Well I'll see if the overlap bug is fixed tonight. I have a baseball and a hockey game setup back to back on the same channel. The baseball game has a 1½ hour pad that will overlap with the hockey game. This same scenario failed to record the hockey game the last time it happened.


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## dbattaglia001

My stream now doesn't work after software update. Took me several hours last night restarting router, tivo roamio pro, iOS app, etc and thought it was working. But now this morning it won't recognize my stream am I am sol to do ooh streaming or downloads. 

Anyone have issues with roamio internal stream because of updated software?


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## humbb

I can't get the Roamio Pro to connect to my Android app on the local network. It keeps trying, but all it does is drain the phone battery. It does connect if I sign in, but then the features are limited. Thank goodness I don't depend on the app for streaming.


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## randian

The Recording Options screen is missing Keep Until Space Needed/Keep Until I Delete. A rather bizarre omission in my opinion.


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## brianric

cherry ghost said:


> The <1 second glitch wasn't the only problem. Some were missing entire recordings. If they had a large pad, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th show wouldn't record at all. Turning this off for now was the right thing to do, IMO.


This. :up:


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## slowbiscuit

randian said:


> The Recording Options screen is missing Keep Until Space Needed/Keep Until I Delete. That rather bizarre omission in my opinion.


Give them another 10 years, they'll add that option.


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## Bierboy

Philmatic said:


> Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like:





randian said:


> The Recording Options screen is missing Keep Until Space Needed/Keep Until I Delete. A rather bizarre omission in my opinion.


EXACTLY...why the heck, in the new default recording options, isn't there one for KUID? That's the one I would much prefer over all the others....major omission...


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## Rob Helmerichs

Bierboy said:


> EXACTLY...why the heck, in the new default recording options, isn't there one for KUID? That's the one I would much prefer over all the others....major omission...


It might be the notion that if everything is KUID, then KUID is useless?


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## TiVoMargret

mrizzo80 said:


> I've noticed a small set of glitches with this build when transitioning from HD to SD screens. Drilling into the top-level Settings menu screen results in some weird video output ("stacks" of vertical white dots). Not a big deal. Also, perhaps related and more important, the dreaded loud burst-of-static audio also gets triggered here... which definitely needs to be fixed IMO.
> 
> The video glitch happens every time; the audio glitch is a bit more random... though I've already heard it twice since upgrading this evening.


If you here the loud burst-of-static, please email [email protected] with the subject "loud burst-of-static" and let me know the make/model number of your TV and your TSN.

Thanks,
--Margret


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## TiVoMargret

dbattaglia001 said:


> My stream now doesn't work after software update. Took me several hours last night restarting router, tivo roamio pro, iOS app, etc and thought it was working. But now this morning it won't recognize my stream am I am sol to do ooh streaming or downloads.
> 
> Anyone have issues with roamio internal stream because of updated software?


We are tracking a separate issue with OOH streaming that is unrelated to the software update, but can be triggered by a reboot (which a software update causes).

UPDATE: I've been told this issue has been resolved.

--Margret


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## TiVoMargret

We are working on another solution, but in the meantime, if you want to clear the S03 error from your Mini, disconnect it from your network whenever you don't need to use it, and do NOT force any connections to the TiVo Service. This will give it the best chance of running garbage collection and cleaning up the issue that is preventing it from loading the new software. (Sorry, but you may need to leave it disconnected for up to 3 days.)

Again, we are working on a better solution for those of you in this state -- I just wanted to give you something you could try on your own.

--Margret


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## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## ggieseke

I doubt that nooneuknow and I are the only ones that wish they had fixed the overlap problems instead of sending our TiVos back to the old way of doing things. DirecTV has had this working for years and it shouldn't be that hard.

If this is a workaround until the summer update, so be it. If they're giving up on same-tuner overlap altogether it's time to hire new programmers.


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## uw69

TiVoMargret said:


> We are working on another solution, but in the meantime, if you want to clear the S03 error from your Mini, disconnect it from your network whenever you don't need to use it, and do NOT force any connections to the TiVo Service. This will give it the best chance of running garbage collection and cleaning up the issue that is preventing it from loading the new software. (Sorry, but you may need to leave it disconnected for up to 3 days.)
> 
> Again, we are working on a better solution for those of you in this state -- I just wanted to give you something you could try on your own.
> 
> --Margret


Wow...just wow.


----------



## MHunter1

Bierboy said:


> why the heck, in the new default recording options, isn't there one for KUID?


This new "Default Recording Options" feature is intended to simplify the process of setting up a new Season Pass or Wish List. If KUID was chosen as the default option, it would surely cause major annoyances when the DVR is low on disk space and the user keeps getting "[program] will be deleted early" warnings and other To Do List conflicts because the DVR can't predict when you'll manually delete your existing and scheduled KUID recordings.


----------



## nooneuknow

ggieseke said:


> I doubt that nooneuknow and I are the only ones that wish they had fixed the overlap problems instead of sending our TiVos back to the old way of doing things. DirecTV has had this working for years and it shouldn't be that hard.
> 
> If this is a workaround until the summer update, so be it. If they're giving up on same-tuner overlap altogether it's time to hire new programmers.


Considering that it was enabled two updates ago, then disabled, then re-enabled, only to be re-disabled, I'm thinking TiVo got rid of a few too many of their staff, and/or desperately needs volunteers for Beta Testing / Field Trials.

The last time I recall TiVo reaching out looking for volunteers was for that years-long S3/THD "gray screen" issue, which was only resolved shortly before it was end-of-lifed. That doesn't instill great confidence in me, for the "Summer Update" re-introduction of the enhancement. At least we have somebody employed directly by TiVo, who acknowledges the issue(s), as opposed to only the clueless call-center drones, who follow outdated one-size-fits-all scripts.

I agree with aaronwt, about "putting all eggs in one basket", as many have gone to one central TiVo Roamio and Minis. Who would want to risk everything, for close to nothing but being stuck with an NDA, greatly limiting what they can discuss publicly during, and after, participating in a Beta or Field Trial?

If TiVo wants to ship me a loaner to test, I'll test. Otherwise, it's just not worth the risk and NDA, which is perpetual (doesn't end/expire). I prefer to keep the ability to speak freely, and not worry about TiVo terminating my lifetime TiVo service x3, and any other measures they can use on those who share things they aren't supposed to, during/after participating.

I'd bet on the enhanced overlap not appearing any sooner than a "Fall Update". I'm figuring too many who went with a 6-tuner Plus/Pro, who can live with the old/usual handling of overlaps, and too few who went with 4-tuner Base model, who might rather live with the flawed feature, until fixed. If TiVo had made OTA an option for the 6-tuner Plus/Pro, I doubt there'd be the divide between the have and have-nots, which IMO is also a hindrance to progress, since it creates two sub-platforms to test for Roamio, while they still try to pass what they can to the sub-platforms of the Premiere.

A poll thread exists titled "*Plus/Pro owners, would you buy add-on OTA tuner?*" http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516152 , which currently shows ~62% interested in buying an add-on OTA tuner for the Plus/Pro, if one was available, and further divides it between "Yes" and "Maybe, depends on price". It seems like TiVo underestimated the demand for 6-tuner OTA, or the ability to fallback to OTA (I'm the latter).


----------



## aristoBrat

nooneuknow said:


> I guess since I'm in the minority who doesn't care about any live sports, live news, reality shows, and the other things that require more than 1 minute of padding start and/or finish, I forfeit the right to want the feature to stay active?


I don't care about live sports either, but the fact is that live sports on CBS Sunday afternoons can run long, causing _every single show_ that CBS airs Sunday evenings (on the east coast, with a normal start time of 7:00PM or later) to be delayed by an unknown number of minutes (between 0 and 60).

The compensation that many folks came up to deal with this situation is to pad the end of each show by 45 or 60 minutes, which creates overlapping recordings. The overlapping recordings bug causes recordings to be miss.

If you don't do a large pad, then you risk missing the last 15-30 minutes of your show, depending on how long the afternoon sports delayed everything.

My thought has always been that if TiVo were east-coast based, their staff would have experienced this crap with the overlapping recordings first hand, and it would have been fixed a lot sooner. Because you're right, ... to explain it to folks like you in other time-zones, it requires a detailed set of procedures to setup that situation. However, for many of us in the east coast, that set of procedures boils down to "trying to use the TiVo like normal".


----------



## cherry ghost

ggieseke said:


> I doubt that nooneuknow and I are the only ones that wish they had fixed the overlap problems instead of sending our TiVos back to the old way of doing things. DirecTV has had this working for years and it shouldn't be that hard.
> 
> If this is a workaround until the summer update, so be it. If they're giving up on same-tuner overlap altogether it's time to hire new programmers.


I agree it would be nice if they fixed it, but if they couldn't get it exactly right for this update it's better to disable it than leave it. And I've never experienced the missed recording problem, only the <1 second glitch.


----------



## tds4182

monkeydust said:


> Or Amazon Prime.
> 
> Like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys and Santa passes us over yet another year....


Why not just break down and buy one of the many Blu-Ray DVD players that allow Amazon Prime, they are available for ~$100.00


----------



## aristoBrat

I'm not against them having put a toggle option in to have kept nooneuknow's head from exploding, but if they had the time and resources to program in that new option, they they better have had the same time and resources to look at the problem. My guess is that they ran short of time/resources and turning it off, while obviously causing some problems for some that can be fixed by editing their Season Passes, fixes problems for others that have no easy work around.


----------



## aristoBrat

tds4182 said:


> Why not just break down and buy one of the many Blu-Ray DVD players that allow Amazon Prime, they are available for ~$100.00


Or a $50 Roku 1.


----------



## randian

MHunter1 said:


> This new "Default Recording Options" feature is intended to simplify the process of setting up a new Season Pass or Wish List. If KUID was chosen as the default option, it would surely cause major annoyances when the DVR is low on disk space and the user keeps getting "[program] will be deleted early" warnings and other To Do List conflicts because the DVR can't predict when you'll manually delete your existing and scheduled KUID recordings.


Nonsense. The problem is not that KUSN is the default, the problem is your Keep Until default cannot be set on the Default Recordings screen. If I want to make KUID the default, what business is that of TiVo? Total UI fail by TiVo.


----------



## jrtroo

KUID is known to cause issues when the drive starts to fill or there are lots of episodes to record. Then Tivo gets calls wondering why some shows are missed but space is available. So, to avoid increasing call volume, it makes sense to limit this function.


----------



## randian

jrtroo said:


> KUID is known to cause issues when the drive starts to fill or there are lots of episodes to record. Then Tivo gets calls wondering why some shows are missed but space is available. So, to avoid increasing call volume, it makes sense to limit this function.


Still nonsense. You haven't reduced the number of calls you're going to get, because KUID is still available on the Create SP page. "Make it available but annoying" isn't good design.


----------



## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## Bigg

monkeydust said:


> So we have to find the tv remote and the av remote and switch to another device. That is too much to handle for my simpleton family.


Seriously? Americans are getting so ****ing lazy that they can't grab another remote or two to do something? It's ridiculous!

Was the overlapping tuner functionality that is now disabled where you two overlapping recordings on the same channel, and they both record off of one tuner? I saw my TiVo do that a week or two ago, and I was amazed that it could do that, as simple and obvious of a feature as that is. However, it was glitchy as all get out, and the menus were all messed up as to what was actually recording. Hopefully TiVo can make this actually work properly, as it seems like a pretty basic thing to be able to do in order to save tuners.


----------



## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## andyf

Couple of comments:



nooneuknow said:


> Pssssst. Hey, everybody, Bigg has entered the thread, so don't dare discuss anything related to cell phones or tablets (and no android talk!!!!!!). He's got that covered in 30 other threads.
> 
> Oh, hi there Bigg,


There you go again. I know you're trying to be very PC and appreciate it when someone points out you may be slipping up again.

Also, My Sony Bravia TVs (two of them) have no problem with the Roamio or the other devices I have plugged into them (Logitech Skype HD Cam, Yamaha Receiver).


----------



## randian

andyf said:


> Also, My Sony Bravia TVs (two of them) have no problem with the Roamio or the other devices I have plugged into them (Logitech Skype HD Cam, Yamaha Receiver).


My Roamio doesn't have any _problems_ with my TV, but it is inexplicably missing features. For example, my Sony BD player can over HDMI automatically signal my TV to turn on and change inputs when it starts playing. The Roamio doesn't do this. The Roamio also has issues with auto-detecting switches, because it doesn't properly turn off HDMI when entering standby mode.


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## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## nooneuknow

<content self-redacted to save space>


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## Bierboy

MHunter1 said:


> This new "Default Recording Options" feature is intended to simplify the process of setting up a new Season Pass or Wish List. If KUID was chosen as the default option, it would surely cause major annoyances when the DVR is low on disk space and the user keeps getting "[program] will be deleted early" warnings and other To Do List conflicts because the DVR can't predict when you'll manually delete your existing and scheduled KUID recordings.


Baloney...take responsibility like most of us do now and adjust your settings for any recording or SP. If you have a smaller disk, then you know what to do. The majority of us use KUID, so it should be the default setting...



randian said:


> ...The problem is not that KUSN is the default, the problem is your Keep Until default cannot be set on the Default Recordings screen. If I want to make KUID the default, what business is that of TiVo? Total UI fail by TiVo.


Exactly...


----------



## CoxInPHX

mrizzo80 said:


> I've noticed a small set of glitches with this build when transitioning from HD to SD screens. Drilling into the top-level Settings menu screen results in some weird video output ("stacks" of vertical white dots). Not a big deal.


This was the very first thing I also noticed, no big deal, just odd it was let slip through.

BTW, all my TiVos DVR, (but not Minis) now on 20.4.1 exhibit this behavior so, I think I can rule out the device, TV, HDMI cable, etc.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> This was the very first thing I also noticed, no big deal, just odd it was let slip through.
> 
> BTW, all my TiVos now on 20.4.1 exhibit this behavior so, I think I can rule out the device, TV, HDMI cable, etc.


I guess my TSNs went into the "black hole" again... Still no updates here. I misunderstood the post you just quoted. I thought it was more than a menu transition, as I now see that's what it was, upon closer re-reading of the post, although I'm surprised TiVoMargret would set a specific email subject for submitting TSNs and TV models over menu transition glitches.


----------



## jwbelcher

CoxInPHX said:


> This was the very first thing I also noticed, no big deal, just odd it was let slip through.
> 
> BTW, all my TiVos DVR, (but not Minis) now on 20.4.1 exhibit this behavior so, I think I can rule out the device, TV, HDMI cable, etc.


Try Roamio without View Window enabled... e.g. Mini doesn't have this issue...


----------



## CoxInPHX

jwbelcher said:


> Try Roamio without View Window enabled... e.g. Mini doesn't have this issue...


We have a winner, With the Video Window "Off" the glitch is not reproducible.


----------



## lessd

nooneuknow said:


> I guess my TSNs went into the "black hole" again... Still no updates here. I misunderstood the post you just quoted. I thought it was more than a menu transition, as I now see that's what it was, upon closer re-reading of the post, although I'm surprised TiVoMargret would set a specific email subject for submitting TSNs and TV models over menu transition glitches.


It looks like one of my Roamios also went into the black hole also, as I got the update on my 2 other Roamios and my Mini, UGG. I re-entered the TSN but the Priority site said this unit was already set to get the update.


----------



## nooneuknow

I'm either computer-lagged, or Chrome is somehow not showing existing posts which would negate having a reason to post some of the posts I have. WTH...


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> I guess my TSNs went into the "black hole" again... Still no updates here. I misunderstood the post you just quoted. I thought it was more than a menu transition, as I now see that's what it was, upon closer re-reading of the post, although I'm surprised TiVoMargret would set a specific email subject for submitting TSNs and TV models over menu transition glitches.


Margret's post was directed at the "loud burst-of-static"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10064319#post10064319

I am not hearing any audio static issues.


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## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> Margret's post was directed at the "loud burst-of-static"
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10064319#post10064319
> 
> I am not hearing any audio static issues.


I've read her post for about the fifth time now, and the post she quoted (seems to) describe both static on the screen AND a loud noise (unless I am repeatedly hallucinating something that isn't there, and it's the same hallucination every time I look).

I don't get the loud noise 100% of the time, nor do I get digital static all the time (sometimes short & loud audio noise with black screen, or no audio noise with static on screen, and so on with variables of these).

The other hiccup in discussing my issues here is none of my three priority enrolled Roamios will download the update, while the post TiVoMargret quoted is one of the people who got the update already. So, I guess I should shut up about my "pre-existing condition(s)" which she collected my TSNs for and asked me to let her know if the problem(s) continued after the update. I wish I could answer that question, but no updates yet...

*EDIT/ADD: I have intentionally redacted my own posts about pre-existing issues, and the griping about the enhanced overlap handling feature being removed. It frees up some space to make the thread easier to navigate and stay relevant to the update.* I didn't completely delete them, as I know that can sometimes do more harm than good.


----------



## moyekj

Bierboy said:


> The majority of us use KUID, so it should be the default setting...


 I doubt that very much. I can understand why TiVo left it out since too many users don't realize implications of setting everything KUID. Perhaps a default in settings as off would make sense, certainly not a default of on. A default of on would be a drastic change for casual users that have no idea about this update.


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## Bierboy

moyekj said:


> I doubt that very much. I can understand why TiVo left it out since too many users don't realize implications of setting everything KUID. Perhaps a default in settings as off would make sense, certainly not a default of on. A default of on would be a drastic change for casual users that have no idea about this update.


I'm not saying that the software default be KUID -- all I'm asking is that we be given the OPTION of setting KUID as the default. (I meant to previously say that it should be A default setting; not THE default setting). The software default can be anything; just give us the OPTION of setting it to KUID. Oh, and doubt all you want...you'd be wrong. TiVo users aren't as stupid and clueless as you're making them out to be...


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## tatergator1

CoxInPHX said:


> We have a winner, With the Video Window "Off" the glitch is not reproducible.


Agreed. Any HD to SD menu transition while the preview window is active results in a brief "glitch screen" of several columns of white dots and a broken horizontal line about 3/4 of the way down the screen. No loud static burst.


----------



## midas

Bierboy said:


> The majority of us use KUID, so it should be the default setting...


The majority use it for all their season passes? No chance!

The majority use it for the majority of their season passes? Also no chance!

I think you meant to say that the majority of people in your house use it.


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## steve614

Bierboy said:


> The majority of us use KUID, so it should be the default setting.





moyekj said:


> I doubt that very much.





Bierboy said:


> Oh, and doubt all you want...you'd be wrong.


We need a poll. I'd be willing to bet that KUID use is in the minority.



midas said:


> I think you meant to say that the majority of people in your house use it.


:up:


----------



## mrizzo80

tatergator1 said:


> Agreed. Any HD to SD menu transition while the preview window is active results in a brief "glitch screen" of several columns of white dots and a broken horizontal line about 3/4 of the way down the screen. No loud static burst.


I played around with this some more just now and haven't had the audio static issue occur since it happened twice Thursday after updating. So hopefully there is just a very limited scenario for when it does occur.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

steve614 said:


> We need a poll. I'd be willing to bet that KUID use is in the minority.


And the poll would only tell about people who A) come here, and B) answer polls.

I suspect that in the real world, the vast majority of TiVo users, or any kind of tech users, only ever use the default settings.


----------



## rarceneaux

Mine was stuck on updating screen when I woke up pulled the plug and 5 minutes it finished even though it said this May take a hour or longer and I didn't even sign up for the early update. It said 20.4.1 now.


----------



## jackief

I'm having stream issues, Margaret said it was resolved.. I can't get to the roamio plus from the mini and iPad says out of home. I have done additional connections to service and reboots. Any other suggestions? This doesn't seem widespread?


----------



## Sixto

jackief said:


> I'm having stream issues, Margaret said it was resolved.. I can't get to the roamio plus from the mini and iPad says out of home. I have done additional connections to service and reboots. Any other suggestions? This doesn't seem widespread?


Have you tried a restart? I needed to reboot every Roamio after the upgrade. All have been fine since.

My guess is that since I was upgrading all 7 boxes at the same time, that they may not have all known about the others while rebooting since they were all booting up at different times. After rebooting the 3 Roamio's one by one later in the night after the upgrades all has been fine. They had added some code a while ago to verify in home access and that seems to be somewhat sensitive.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

jackief said:


> I'm having stream issues, Margaret said it was resolved.. I can't get to the roamio plus from the mini and iPad says out of home. I have done additional connections to service and reboots. Any other suggestions? This doesn't seem widespread?


I'm seeing the out of home thing on my iPad also. Was typing up another thread when you posted this.

ADDED: I rebooted just now and the iPad app is working again.


----------



## jackief

I did reboot each, but perhaps not in the right order. Had all unplugged while eating breakfast and am now starting, connecting, testing again. It how works after the big hammer approach. I'm glad I have not actually been out of the house when the update came.


----------



## KwikSilvr

After the spring update on my Roamio Plus my tv temporarily loses the HDMI signal when doing 30-sec skip, fast forward or instant replay. I get black screen ("no input detected") for a few seconds after the action until video is re-established. Almost like a change in resolution. Same thing when normal FF is first initiated; it does recover and show the FF action after a few seconds. 

I did have issues with this sporadically happening when bringing up the menu or guide previously, but the issue with fast forward and rewind is only after 20.4.1 and is consistent (happens on every action).


----------



## jbenda

I just got the update on my Premiere and Roamio Basic. I have mp4 files from Handbrake on both boxes and the Roamio doesn't play them correctly after the update. During playback the screen goes black and the sound goes mute every 20 seconds or so for a few seconds and then comes back. These files worked fine before the update and the Premiere is still playing them fine.

Anyone else see this on their Roamio?


----------



## jackief

the other "conincidental" problem I am having is that the slingbox connected to the component outputs of my mini is not picking up the video signal. I can't see how this is related to the update but noticed when going through all my testing. Was working right before update. I have mini hdmi going to tv and component going to sling. Going to check the mini forum and then try more unplugging things.....


----------



## moyekj

jackief said:


> the other "conincidental" problem I am having is that the slingbox connected to the component outputs of my mini is not picking up the video signal. I can't see how this is related to the update but noticed when going through all my testing. Was working right before update. I have mini hdmi going to tv and component going to sling. Going to check the mini forum and then try more unplugging things.....


 Recently I switched my Slingbox 350 to use Mini component output (after getting the breakout cables). Prior to that the Mini was HDMI connected, so I removed HDMI connection and replaced with component connection. The Mini refused to output component until I rebooted it, and that was with HDMI still disconnected. Could be if a reboot doesn't fix it that Mini won't output both outputs simultaneously anymore, and that it takes a reboot to switch outputs.


----------



## mpnret

Any way to opt out of this update for now? I see reports of some getting the update that are not on the priority list. From the posts so far it looks like it solves a lot of problems that I didn't have but creates a host of others that will affect me. For me an opt out or get it last list looks like a better option.


----------



## jackief

I have rebooted around 5 times (good thing I like the tivo guy cartoon) and I can't get both outputs to function similaneously. I had unplugged HDMI and rebooted, and then the sling would pick up the component output. I plugged the HDMI back in, and the component stopped sending the signal again. I am getting audio on both tv and via slingbox.

I can take this to the mini forum? But I see Margaret in this thread so don't want to be off her radar. If there is a better place to pursue this, let me know.

I'm going to reread this thread to see if any of the other hdmi related reports could be related. It is definitely a problem on the mini end with the two video outputs so I do expect related to the update.

edit- starting at post 1 from Margaret, I am curious to see more details behind this and wonder if it is related-



TiVoMargaret said:


> fixed cases where TiVo Mini was rebooting due to HDMI issues


----------



## astrohip

Philmatic said:


> Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like:


I hate to slap this gift horse in the mouth, but...

I always set SPs to NEW only, so this is a welcome feature. But most of my Wishlists are to capture unique shows for a specific WL desire; eg, any show about Komodo Dragons, or anything Woody Allen directs, or all shows with HORSE in the title, or whatever. And they are never NEW only. I want them all.

By making this screen affect both SP & WL, it made it less useful for me. I may be the only one, but with 100+ SPs and 70 or so WLs, I'm a heavy user.

I do realize some people use WL for SP, but I never do that.


----------



## midas

jackief said:


> I have rebooted around 5 times (good thing I like the tivo guy cartoon) and I can't get both outputs to function similaneously. I had unplugged HDMI and rebooted, and then the sling would pick up the component output. I plugged the HDMI back in, and the component stopped sending the signal again. I am getting audio on both tv and via slingbox.


I just tested my Slingbox 500 and it works fine. But I've got mine hooked directly to the Roamio, not the Mini. So it might indeed be a Mini issue.

You might want to try changing your output resolution. I've heard of issues with 1080p output.


----------



## sminhd

Something new for me since the update on my Roamio Plus, connected to a Yamaha RX-A1020 via HDMI, with CC thru Comcast. On what seems to be a random basis, the audio signal drops when changing channels. I'd say out of every 10 channel changes, it happens 1 to 2 times. Whether or not the audio format of the content is stereo or DD, doesn't seem to play a part. When the audio drops, i can channel up and right back down and the sound will usually come back. I can also reproduce this, probably more reliably, by switching between TIVO Central and the program.

Anyone else seeing this?

btw...first time poster but have been following this very helpful board for some time.

Steve


----------



## L David Matheny

KwikSilvr said:


> After the spring update on my Roamio Plus my tv temporarily loses the HDMI signal when doing 30-sec skip, fast forward or instant replay. I get black screen ("no input detected") for a few seconds after the action until video is re-established. Almost like a change in resolution. Same thing when normal FF is first initiated; it does recover and show the FF action after a few seconds.
> 
> I did have issues with this sporadically happening when bringing up the menu or guide previously, but the issue with fast forward and rewind is only after 20.4.1 and is consistent (happens on every action).


Someone mentioned that transfers now appear to monopolize the CPU. That and your problem make it sound like TiVo may have somehow caused a bug in their processor-scheduling routines, screwing up the priorities. We can only hope that if such a bug was easily introduced, it can also be easily eliminated.


----------



## tatergator1

sminhd said:


> Something new for me since the update on my Roamio Plus, connected to a Yamaha RX-A1020 via HDMI, with CC thru Comcast. On what seems to be a random basis, the audio signal drops when changing channels. I'd say out of every 10 channel changes, it happens 1 to 2 times. Whether or not the audio format of the content is stereo or DD, doesn't seem to play a part. When the audio drops, i can channel up and right back down and the sound will usually come back. I can also reproduce this, probably more reliably, by switching between TIVO Central and the program.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this?
> 
> btw...first time poster but have been following this very helpful board for some time.
> 
> Steve


I don't think I've ever lost audio on channel changes, but losing audio for a few seconds after going into TiVo Central has been an issue for at least a year.

When you lose it on a channel change, does it come back after a few seconds? What happens if you hit the Replay button?


----------



## sminhd

tatergator1 said:


> I don't think I've ever lost audio on channel changes, but losing audio for a few seconds after going into TiVo Central has been an issue for at least a year.
> 
> When you lose it on a channel change, does it come back after a few seconds? What happens if you hit the Replay button?


No Replay, Skip, Pause, etc will bring it back. Only flipping channels or switching between TivoCentral and the program. Without doing this, the sound never comes back.


----------



## eboydog

My Premiere updated yesterday right when the update was released, just happened to catch it at a time when I was reconnecting cables and had it shut down for a bit but the update worked fine. The catch is that my Roamio hadn't updated yet but I started seeing all kind of weird things with pyTivo such as transfers not displaying in the pyTivo screen and on the Roamio, I would start a transfer and nothing would transfer, going to the do do list the transfers were listed but nothing would transfer to the Roamio between the updated Premiere and the non-updated Roamio, I rebooted the Roamio, it updated and now all appears fine, not sure what was going on but the two models being at different versions created some weirdness.


----------



## randian

Even if the vast majority of users only ever use the default recording options, and even if KUSN should be the default, that's no reason to make the Keep Until default not settable. If I want to make the KU default KUID I should be able to.

I agree with the previous poster that there should be separate SP and WL defaults. Also thing that should differ for WL defaults: "HD only" vs "No HD".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

I suspect part of the problem is that the TiVo software might internally treat SPs and WLs identically, and thus there are limits to how differently they can behave?


----------



## JAaronT

If I turn off Overlap protection, will it still record both shows if enough tuners are available? I hate this behavior, I'd prefer the stutter when the first recording ended.


----------



## midas

I find it kind of odd that there was no message about the new release. I've been a way from Tivo for a while, but I always remember a message. We even had a name for them, Pre Tivo Central Message. 

With the new default recording settings I find it odd not to make people aware of it.


----------



## Floridaman

sminhd said:


> Something new for me since the update on my Roamio Plus, connected to a Yamaha RX-A1020 via HDMI, with CC thru Comcast. On what seems to be a random basis, the audio signal drops when changing channels. I'd say out of every 10 channel changes, it happens 1 to 2 times. Whether or not the audio format of the content is stereo or DD, doesn't seem to play a part. When the audio drops, i can channel up and right back down and the sound will usually come back. I can also reproduce this, probably more reliably, by switching between TIVO Central and the program.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this?
> 
> btw...first time poster but have been following this very helpful board for some time.
> 
> Steve


I have the Roamio Pro connected via HDMI to a Yamaha RX-A3030 and had the exact same issue after the update. I would say the audio drops at least 50% of the time during channel changing. The only way to get audio back was to switch the channel back and forth or go into Tivo Central. This is a major issue IMO! I did find a work around. I hooked a digital optical cable from the Tivo to the receiver and now have my HDMI cable connected between the Tivo and TV. I had audio issues prior to the update and on occasion it would drop when changing channels but the update made it ten times as bad! Now I have zero audio dropouts since changing the setup of connections. By the way I have FIOS so it isn't just an issue with Comcast.


----------



## rainwater

midas said:


> I find it kind of odd that there was no message about the new release. I've been a way from Tivo for a while, but I always remember a message. We even had a name for them, Pre Tivo Central Message.


One will probably be sent when the rollout is official. For now it seems to just be the people that signed up.


----------



## sminhd

Floridaman said:


> I have the Roamio Pro connected via HDMI to a Yamaha RX-A3030 and had the exact same issue after the update. I would say the audio drops at least 50% of the time during channel changing. The only way to get audio back was to switch the channel back and forth or go into Tivo Central. This is a major issue IMO! I did find a work around. I hooked a digital optical cable from the Tivo to the receiver and now have my HDMI cable connected between the Tivo and TV. I had audio issues prior to the update and on occasion it would drop when changing channels but the update made it ten times as bad! Now I have zero audio dropouts since changing the setup of connections. By the way I have FIOS so it isn't just an issue with Comcast.


Thanks FLman. Always good to hear when others are experiencing your issues to allow for at least some sleep at night . Hopefully this won't linger on too long, at least at the frequency it's occurring post-update.


----------



## MHunter1

randian said:


> If I want to make KUID the default, what business is that of TiVo?





Bierboy said:


> adjust your settings for any recording or SP


Spoken like true power users! But TiVo is not marketed toward us advanced users who appreciate its superior capabilities, it's aimed first and foremost at people who want an easy-to-use, hassle-free DVR experience.

Offering a KUID option _by default_ for _all_ SPs and WLs would result in frustrated and confused _novice_ users asking TiVo why their DVR keeps saying certain programs will be deleted early or not recorded at all because they don't understand that having too many programs set to KUID makes the DVR unable to calculate the unknown variable of when the user will manually delete those programs.

A simple solution to make _everyone_ happy would be displaying a pop-up message when KUID is chosen as the default that says "Warning: Selecting KUID by default may result in some programs not recording as planned or being deleted earlier than expected. Continue anyway?"


----------



## bigguy126

I'm having HDMI issues too since the update. Transferred a mp4 via pytivo. Experienced black frames and flickers every minute or so. Watched the same video via roku and it played fine. So it is not the source. Only started sine the update.


----------



## nooneuknow

[SINGING] In the black hole, wish it would roll, Just want the update to apply.... [/SINGING]

I did register all TSNs, as soon as TiVoMargret fixed what was stopping them from being accepted...

I wonder what the odds are that the HDMI issues I've had since the "random reboot" issue came and went, will reverse if I ever get the update...

There have been times when widely reported issues never affected me, until the update to fix everybody else rolled, and then I would acquire the issue.

It would be really helpful, if those posting about any seemingly HDMI-related issues, post-update, could make sure to be very specific, as I keep posting replies to posts that are just too vague, thinking that I'm finally not alone, only to find out it's not the same issue.

What I'm specifically looking for is behavior that would mimic a flaky HDMI cable (or loose connection), that occurs without touching anything (not even the remote), just randomly, while watching something (recorded, or live).

I'm still on the fence on if I'm actually lucky to not have received the update yet, given the reports so far (yes, I've said that before).

I'm open to suggestions on if I should submit TSNs to TiVoMargret again, requesting her to check if I should've got it by now, or if I should contact her and ask to be a hold-out for a later (or the last) batch in the general rollout.

What I'm not asking for (politely), are replies telling me how great your HDMI is working. I'll assume that is the case for those who don't post about it.


----------



## jwbelcher

nooneuknow said:


> [SINGING] In the black hole, wish it would roll, Just want the update to apply.... [/SINGING]
> 
> I did register all TSNs, as soon as TiVoMargret fixed what was stopping them from being accepted...


I bet they stopped the rollout after the S03 on the Minis got reported. I would've.


----------



## nooneuknow

jwbelcher said:


> I bet they stopped the rollout after the S03 on the Minis got reported. I would.


Good point. Easy for me to overlook, since no Minis reside here. Most Mini talk is pretty much "background noise" to me.

I'd rather hear that is the case, from our usual source, than speculate, though...


----------



## TiVoMargret

We have temporarily paused the priority list updates while we look into a couple of issues.

--Margret


----------



## Devx

Thanks TiVoMargret.

Also, I think it would be great if Tivo put those on the priority list before others. I don't have any of my Tivo's on the priority list (have never put my Roamio's on one) but my Plus was updated already to 20.4.1. Not really an issue, but when my boxes are otherwise stable I don't mind if others test the new changes out before me.


----------



## rainwater

Devx said:


> Thanks TiVoMargret.
> 
> Also, I think it would be great if Tivo put those on the priority list before others. I don't have any of my Tivo's on the priority list (have never put my Roamio's on one) but my Plus was updated already to 20.4.1. Not really an issue, but when my boxes are otherwise stable I don't mind if others test the new changes out before me.


This is done on purpose. Not only does the initial test rollout go to priority users but it also goes so some normal customers. I believe they do this to see if there are any reports from these customers who tend to be more casual users.


----------



## crxssi

midas said:


> I find it kind of odd that there was no message about the new release.


+1
Perhaps it is because we are early adopters. But still, it seems odd.


----------



## CoxInPHX

My Elite/XL4 which is on 20.4.1, had a random reboot tonight at 10:04pm Arizona Time.

It has not randomly rebooted since the "bad" TiVo data issue several weeks ago.

By the time I got around to looking at the logs they had already been uploaded to TiVo and the logs refreshed.


----------



## lessd

TiVoMargret said:


> We have temporarily paused the priority list updates while we look into a couple of issues.
> 
> --Margret


One of my updated Roamio units must have re-booted about 10AM on the 5th as at 10pm the up time was about 12 hours and the time was not on the screen.


----------



## chrispitude

ggieseke said:


> I doubt that nooneuknow and I are the only ones that wish they had fixed the overlap problems instead of sending our TiVos back to the old way of doing things. DirecTV has had this working for years and it shouldn't be that hard.
> 
> If this is a workaround until the summer update, so be it. If they're giving up on same-tuner overlap altogether it's time to hire new programmers.


Same here. There are some TV stations whose clocks apparently run behind, and so I need to pad their shows.


----------



## crxssi

chrispitude said:


> Same here. There are some TV stations whose clocks apparently run behind


It can only be intentional, unless they are complete idiots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol


----------



## reffr

My Tivo Series 4 now has now audio thru HDMI. I have restarted it numerous times.

Please help


----------



## humbb

On a positive note, after 2 days following the update, my Android phone now connects to the Roamio using the local network. :up:
Previously it would only connect if I signed in (with the usual limited features).


----------



## HarperVision

reffr said:


> My Tivo Series 4 now has now audio thru HDMI. I have restarted it numerous times. Please help


Try switching the audio format (DD to PCM or vice versa) and see if it reappears.


----------



## morac

humbb said:


> On a positive note, after 2 days following the update, my Android phone now connects to the Roamio using the local network. :up: Previously it would only connect if I signed in (with the usual limited features).


 I'm having this problem. I have a Roamio Pro and a Premiere, both on the updated software. When I connect to the Roamio Pro on my LAN, it says I'm away from home. It won't connect locally. I can connect locally to my Premiere and set up the stream device that's part of the Roamio Pro (meaning it connects locally), but I can connect directly to the Roamio Pro itself using the iOS app.

Edit:

I restarted the Roamio Pro, but that didn't do anything. I had to sign out of the iOS app and sign back in to get it to work. I had to do that on both my iPad and iPhone.


----------



## innocentfreak

Anyone else experiencing small glitches during MRV? I am watching a show from the buffer and the video is glitching. I get various pixelation and other video glitches. It only started happening when the transfer started.


----------



## lpwcomp

mrizzo80 said:


> I've noticed a small set of glitches with this build when transitioning from HD to SD screens. Drilling into the top-level Settings menu screen results in some weird video output ("stacks" of vertical white dots). Not a big deal. Also, perhaps related and more important, the dreaded loud burst-of-static audio also gets triggered here... which definitely needs to be fixed IMO.
> 
> The video glitch happens every time; the audio glitch is a bit more random... though I've already heard it twice since upgrading this evening.


Haven't seen either one of these issues. What model TiVo do you have and how is it connected to the TV? I have a base Roamio directly connected to TV via HDMI.


----------



## JosephB

I'm getting blank screens when I go from video to a menu, or from one menu to the next.

also, I appeared to have some tuning adapter problems but then the tuning adapter on my TiVo HD started acting up so I guess Charter did something on the same weekend TiVo released a Roamio update. I would have that luck...


----------



## moyekj

innocentfreak said:


> Anyone else experiencing small glitches during MRV? I am watching a show from the buffer and the video is glitching. I get various pixelation and other video glitches. It only started happening when the transfer started.


 Yes, this release gives too much priority to transfers to the unit, to the point that it makes my Roamio Pro very sluggish and at times can cause video playback to miss frames. I've mentioned it in kmttg & pyTivo threads.


----------



## xbr23

getting black screens while in the Tivo menu in Settings. hit the back button and it goes back to the previous screen. black screens stay black, only way to exit is via the back button.

Tivo Roamio Pro.


----------



## spaldingclan

I'm getting sound problems with the Tivo sounds...sometimes they work and sometimes they don't


----------



## rainwater

spaldingclan said:


> I'm getting sound problems with the Tivo sounds...sometimes they work and sometimes they don't


Is your sound set to dolby digital? If so, you will not get audio affects while watching content. Only in the menus themselves. TiVo can't insert audio effects into a dolby digital stream.


----------



## lpwcomp

JAaronT said:


> If I turn off Overlap protection, will it still record both shows if enough tuners are available?


Yes. Overlap protection really has nothing to do with this as it effects all recording, even if the shows are are on different channels.


JAaronT said:


> I hate this behavior, I'd prefer the stutter when the first recording ended.


If the minor a/v glitch were the only problem, the mod might have been kept in place but the scheduler problems make that unacceptable.

As far as making it a user selectable option, it's entirely possible that it would be easier to actually fix it than do that. I'm starting to think that there might be a lot of "spaghetti code" in TiVo's s/w.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I'm starting to think that there might be a lot of "spaghetti code" in TiVo's s/w.


Care to share what "spaghetti code" means with the rest of the class? A link to a good page on it would be appreciated, if it's not quick and easy to explain to the non-coders here.


----------



## KevinG

Two issues to report, but I think they've been heard already. Just wanted to add my details.

My pro (which was updated) has been rebooted only once (on it's own to do the update). Minis in the house have been updated, and rebooted multiple times now. The minis continue to "lose connection to the Roamio". Sometimes while watching a recorded show from the Roamio, sometimes it can't get anything from the Roamio (so you can't even see your recorded shows). This is a big PITA, since my whole household revolves around one Pro, and a bunch of minis...

Second. Certainly not as big a deal. But the Pro seems to mute audio any time it wants to pop up a banner. For example. Game of Thrones which was recording, and Silicon Valley which was set to record. While watching live, Game of Thrones ended, and the Roamio popped up a banner to show that it was starting to record Silicon Valley. It did this twice (for some reason), and both times the audio was muted while the banner was on the screen. I don't recall ever noticing this in previous releases.

-Kevin


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> Care to share what "spaghetti code" means with the rest of the class? A link to a good page on it would be appreciated, if it's not quick and easy to explain to the non-coders here.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spaghetti+code


----------



## JohnS-MI

nooneuknow said:


> Care to share what "spaghetti code" means with the rest of the class? A link to a good page on it would be appreciated, if it's not quick and easy to explain to the non-coders here.


Hard to find a "good" page on it as it is a "bad" thing. It is tangled, poorly structured code that is hard to read, understand, debug. Attempts to update, improve, or fix it can be nightmarish. 'Nuff said?

Early computer languages lacked the features to support well-structured code, and memory was expensive enough that tricks to save a few bytes were highly valued, so most code was spaghetti code. Now it is a very "your baby's ugly" thing to say to a software guy.


----------



## lpwcomp

JohnS-MI said:


> Hard to find a "good" page on it as it is a "bad" thing. It is tangled, poorly structured code that is hard to read, understand, debug. Attempts to update, improve, or fix it can be nightmarish. 'Nuff said?


IMNSHO, it was mostly the result of multiple mods to code that should have, at some point, been totally rewritten - but who had the time for that?



JohnS-MI said:


> Early computer languages lacked the features to support well-structured code, and memory was expensive enough that tricks to save a few bytes were highly valued, so most code was spaghetti code.


I disagree. Even in assembly language, it was possible to write fairly well structured code.



JohnS-MI said:


> Now it is a very "your baby's ugly" thing to say to a software guy.


Even the best programmers can only do so much if the design/development/testing _*process*_ is flawed.


----------



## JohnS-MI

lpwcomp said:


> Even the best programmers can only do so much if the design/development/testing _*process*_ is flawed.


Testing? Do you mean inviting customers to sign up to receive new release on a priority basis?

I would agree the programmer can only do so much. "Well-structured" really starts at the requirements capture and system design level.

Sure, good code can go bad from too many patches, but there was also a lot of code that was bad from the first GOTO.


----------



## morac

JohnS-MI said:


> I would agree the programmer can only do so much. "Well-structured" really starts at the requirements capture and system design level.
> 
> Sure, good code can go bad from too many patches, but there was also a lot of code that was bad from the first GOTO.


It really depends on how well the code was written originally and who worked on it since.

I've seen code that was just bad from the start, but I've also seen code that was pretty good to start with until it was assigned to a poor coder after which it was a mess.

Then there's the case where the code might be great, but isn't documented at all (to save time). It doesn't matter how good a coder you are in that case, if you have deadlines to meet and have to simultaneously figure out what the code is doing and update it, mistakes will be made. Especially if the original coder has long since left the company.

I don't know which of those TiVo falls under.


----------



## anthonymoody

My mini lost its connection to the Plus after the update. I had to do the same procedure to get it back as I did the very first time I hooked it up:

1) remove Ethernet switch between Ethernet wall jack and mini, connecting mini directly to wall jack 
2) restart mini, connection to Plus now successful
3) re-insert switch into the chain, connection holds

Not sure why but my switch interferes with the initial connection bt the mini and plus, but once connected, not subsequent connections.


----------



## spaldingclan

rainwater said:


> Is your sound set to dolby digital? If so, you will not get audio affects while watching content. Only in the menus themselves. TiVo can't insert audio effects into a dolby digital stream.


that's what I mean...the Tivo sounds cut out in the menu's. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't


----------



## worachj

spaldingclan said:


> I'm getting sound problems with the Tivo sounds...sometimes they work and sometimes they don't


Same here, on both my updated Roamio and Premiere.


----------



## jackief

I think (fingers crossed) my problem with my mini might be fixed. I was having problems with video out via component breakout cable to my slingbox concurrently with the hdmi output to my tv. Someone in the mini forum suggested rebooting the slingbox. I did that and it didn't work, so then I rebooted mini yet again, and it seems to be working now. I want my kids to try it on their browsers to confirm, they are the ones who actually use it.

Here's my explanation of spaghetti code. Think of "good" code as following a straight line between step 1, step 2, etc. Another function will have its own line for the steps it performs. Now picture a bowl of spaghetti with all the "lines" all mixed up following no order, overlapping, etc. That's what can happen in some programs, in various ways as explained above


----------



## lpwcomp

I really wish people would stop pointing at the DirecTV DVR and saying that it has been doing single tuner for overlapping recordings on the same channel from day one. It's one thing to _*design*_ a system from the start to do something. It's quite another to *add* that functionality to an existing system.

Here's what I think might have happened. Some shining example of the "Peter Principle" in action noticed that the DirecTV DVR could do it, decided that a TiVo should to be able to do it, and either wasn't informed of or ignored the flaw in this thinking. Some developer figured out a way to kludge the system to add it and neither he nor the testers (assuming any real testing was done) considered the scheduling end cases. And yes, I'm ignoring the (IMHO minor) a/v glitch problem.


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spaghetti+code


Well, excuse me, "cat god", for asking for lwpcomp's own explanation/perspective of how he felt the term applied with TiVo, not just a snarky "how hard is it to google?" script. Although, my last thought was that somebody would do exactly what you did.

I was putting my already 140+ open tab browsing session into hibernate, while I "hibernated" for some sleep, and thought it might benefit everybody to know things from his perspective, not just a generic google search, which can often yield results so generic, or so far away from what a person meant when they used an unfamiliar term.

The very reason I have enough tabs open to consume all my available resources (and crash my laptop 3x/day) is due to the number of google search result and wikipedia search result tabs I have open to do my own search-and-learn work, on anything I'm not familiar with on multiple fronts, very little of which is TiVo-related, at this time. I'm spinning a lot of plates learning how to make proper Win7 and Win8 deployment images, and get them where they need to go.

Once again, here I am going off-topic, and creating clutter, explaining myself, while doing my best not to take a slap in the face personally.

I did say "for the rest of the class", to try and keep it short, and now fully expect the usual fallout I tend to get when I switch from "quick and to the point" mode to "explaining myself to those looking down their noses at me" mode...


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I really wish people would stop pointing at the DirecTV DVR and saying that it has been doing single tuner for overlapping recordings on the same channel from day one. It's one thing to _*design*_ a system from the start to do something. It's quite another to *add* that functionality to an existing system.
> 
> Here's what I think might have happened. Some shining example of the "Peter Principle" in action noticed that the DirecTV DVR could do it, decided that a TiVo should to be able to do it, and either wasn't informed of or ignored the flaw in this thinking. Some developer figured out a way to kludge the system to add it and neither he nor the testers (assuming any real testing was done) considered the scheduling end cases. And yes, I'm ignoring the (IMHO minor) a/v glitch problem.


Thank you for taking the time to explain, which you did in the way I was hoping for/looking for.

I agree with your perspective, and it's also nice to see I'm not alone in feeling the momentary A/V glitch on same-tuner overlaps, is minor (IMHO). That's only one side of a coin, though, as has been repeatedly stated by others.

I've been doing my best to just accept the "other side of that coin" being a big enough issue that it had merit for TiVo to pull the function, yet again, even though I don't pad anything enough to be affected by the "scheduling" issue with padding enough to overlap a whole guide entry, or multiple ones, which (apparently) can result in missed/skipped recordings.

I'm not downplaying that side of it. If I was affected by it, I'm sure I'd feel as strongly about it as those who are. It's yet another "how you use your TiVo", than the easier to discuss "something that equally impacts everybody" issue.


----------



## nooneuknow

I have requested my TSNs be removed from the priority queue, and instead be placed at the end of the general public rollout, while requesting log monitoring continue.

I've reduced the impact of a larger (for me) HDMI/video scaling-related issue, by changing my fixed output to 1080i, instead of 1080p.

That's stopped my TVs/TiVos from blanking the picture/audio at random intervals and making a loud double pop, as well as the bursts of audio and video "static" which would sometimes happen instead. What I now see are random occurrences of extremely mild macroblocking of maybe 3-5 "blocks". My best guess is these same occurrences were tripping up the 720p/1080i upscaling to 1080p, when using the TiVo to do it. That's backed up with how any other device placed on the very same cable/input to the TVs can do full 1080p/60 and 1080p/24, without a single hiccup.

Based on the way I use my TiVos, have things set up, and what I do and don't do with them, I feel like I'd rather skip this "Spring Update", and just wait for the "Summer Update". It just seems like any update that has caused video-out issues, especially HDMI-specific, as reported by others, would be no-steps-forward, and three-steps-back, for me. I can live with the current state of things, and the same-tuner overlap handling. I understand there are those that can't, and respect that.


----------



## Bierboy

MHunter1 said:


> ...Offering a KUID option _by default_ for _all_ SPs and WLs would result in frustrated and confused _novice_ users...


As I posted above, TiVo should AT LEAST offer KUID as ONE recording option, just NOT the default. Let the user choose...


----------



## rainwater

Bierboy said:


> As I posted above, TiVo should AT LEAST offer KUID as ONE recording option, just NOT the default. Let the user choose...


Maybe if it only applies to single recordings. Season Pass recordings shouldn't even be allowed to use KUID (unless they add a secret backdoor for power users) because it is just a support nightmare when the TiVo does not record a users programs because they aren't clear how that option works.


----------



## leiff

concurrent comcast on-demand viewing from host TiVo box and Minni is a very welcome addition. Also I was getting random SRM -8 error messages frequently before update accessing Comcast on demand. No more now. update probably fixed this or it may have been a ethernet switch i swapped out at the same time i got update.


----------



## nooneuknow

nooneuknow said:


> I have requested my TSNs be removed from the priority queue, and instead be placed at the end of the general public rollout, while requesting log monitoring continue.
> 
> I've reduced the impact of a larger (for me) HDMI/video scaling-related issue, by changing my fixed output to 1080i, instead of 1080p.
> 
> That's stopped my TVs/TiVos from blanking the picture/audio at random intervals and making a loud double pop, as well as the bursts of audio and video "static" which would sometimes happen instead. What I now see are random occurrences of extremely mild macroblocking of maybe 3-5 "blocks". My best guess is these same occurrences were tripping up the 720p/1080i upscaling to 1080p, when using the TiVo to do it. That's backed up with how any other device placed on the very same cable/input to the TVs can do full 1080p/60 and 1080p/24, without a single hiccup.
> 
> Based on the way I use my TiVos, have things set up, and what I do and don't do with them, I feel like I'd rather skip this "Spring Update", and just wait for the "Summer Update". It just seems like any update that has caused video-out issues, especially HDMI-specific, as reported by others, would be no-steps-forward, and three-steps-back, for me. I can live with the current state of things, and the same-tuner overlap handling. I understand there are those that can't, and respect that.


A lot of good this did me... 

All three just got the update, lost the real-time connection, bare-bones functionality, can't reboot since they are recording, can't watch because the screen keeps blacking out (sound too), and the only way I can get anything to show is by switching to another HDMI port and back, only to go black again. The HDUI Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, Play, Play sequence won't even get them back up without jumping between HDMI inputs...

KMTTG just locks-up, but my network is working fine for all non-TiVo devices.

I don't have high hopes for what I'll see when they can reboot and update. Hopefully I'll at least be able to do something after they can install the update. Belly-Up bricked on all three, and can't even verify they actually are recording as the panel lights indicate.

I guess I have live by the comment I made about how TiVo users should know that software updates are "Beta Testing & Field Trials Part 2" and that's what we ought to know by now if we've been TiVo users for a significant amount of time.

Force-feed all three an update at the exact same time, during prime-time, throwing all into C133 lockdown mode... WTH TiVo? :down: :down: :down:


----------



## andyf

http://status.tivo.com is showing a partial outage on core services. They're calling a minor outage ... seems pretty major to me.


----------



## morac

andyf said:


> http://status.tivo.com is showing a partial outage on core services. They're calling a minor outage ... seems pretty major to me.


Maybe it's partial because it's not affecting everyone. I'm not seeing any issues with my Roamio currently. If you hadn't posted that I wouldn't even have known there was a problem.


----------



## moyekj

morac said:


> Maybe it's partial because it's not affecting everyone. I'm not seeing any issues with my Roamio currently. If you hadn't posted that I wouldn't even have known there was a problem.


 It's affecting "Search" and iOS app at bare minimum which is probably part of the "partial" that is not working.


----------



## nooneuknow

I started a thread specific to that official link that TiVo now provides.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516357

Credit going where credit is due, for bringing up that link, goes to:



andyf said:


> http://status.tivo.com is showing a partial outage on core services. They're calling a minor outage ... seems pretty major to me.


I put it in the Roamio area. I'll leave it up to the Premiere and other series owners to make their own, in the relative threads.


----------



## morac

moyekj said:


> It's affecting "Search" and iOS app at bare minimum which is probably part of the "partial" that is not working.


Before I posted I tested Search and it was working for me. I just tested it again and it's still working. iOS app also appears to be working, so "partial" may be based on location.


----------



## questors

The minor outage extends from New York to California.


----------



## nooneuknow

questors said:


> The minor outage extends from New York to California.


The pre-existing universal reporting thread for Roamios is here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=510698

The Premiere thread is here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503607


----------



## morac

questors said:


> The minor outage extends from New York to California.


Maybe it's ISP based then. Still not seeing any issues.


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> Maybe it's ISP based then. Still not seeing any issues.


IMO, if TiVo's own status page indicates any outage, it's internal to TiVo.

IMO, the logic to support ISP-based outage(s), would generally be that if the status page says everything is "Operational", but multiple Cox customers in Arizona report C133 errors, then that would point to that ISP.

Hover a mouse pointer over the "?" of each status that has one, and an information bubble appears.


----------



## CloudAtlas

morac said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spaghetti+code


Well played! I was thinking the exact same thing. What did we do before google?


----------



## aaronwt

morac said:


> Maybe it's partial because it's not affecting everyone. I'm not seeing any issues with my Roamio currently. If you hadn't posted that I wouldn't even have known there was a problem.


It was definitely partial. While my Roamio Pro had lost connection to the Tivo mothership, my Roamio BAsic was perfectly fine and still connected. I could still search etc. and do everything normally with my Roamio Basic

Fortunately losing the connection does nothing to affect my recordings or watching the previously recorded shows. It did affect me when I wanted to check some cast members of a show and the episode guide with my Roamio Pro. But otherwise it wasn't a big deal for me. If it affected the recordings and previously recorded content then that would be a very big deal.


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> IMO, if TiVo's own status page indicates any outage, it's internal to TiVo.


 If it's not location or ISP based, then it must be tied to customer accounts or TSNs, otherwise it wouldn't be "partial" and everyone would be seeing a problem.


----------



## nooneuknow

CloudAtlas said:


> Well played! I was thinking the exact same thing. What did we do before google?


Given the number of unproductive rude swipes you take, and how often your post count declines to the mid 90's, after exceeding 100 you might be well-off to remember who else might take notice of that.

The "spaghetti code" subject matter was asked, addressed, and old news.


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> If it's not location or ISP based, then it must be tied to customer accounts or TSNs, otherwise it wouldn't be "partial" and everyone would be seeing a problem.


I've given some thought to that. Unless TiVo decides to disclose what the true meaning of the status is, in detail, I don't see how a web page can know your TSN(s). At most, the status page might know your IP address and ISP.

Yes, it could be specific to an unknown number of TSNs, which could be assigned to a node that is down, or not fully up, which could still be stated as partial, but still be internal, even though that node might be assigned to particular region, which theoretically could be linked to TSNs.

I'm certainly not claiming that you aren't being honest about your service working.

*Just now, TiVoMargret tweeted they are working on it.*

https://twitter.com/tivodesign

I guess there's not much to discuss then. Unless TiVo discloses more, or adds some "explainers" to the status page, we could speculate till the end of existence.

The status page doesn't require you to be logged into your TiVo account to view it, so how much information can it know, other than what I mentioned?


----------



## CloudAtlas

The code was pulled due to the bug and will be fixed in the next release in three months. Will flogging the software developer in the square at noon be ample punishment?


----------



## nooneuknow

C133 has cleared, and I'm not bricked anymore. Looks like everything was recording as it should, when I was bricked-out.

I guess "bricked" might not be the best word. But, I was completely unable to do anything for the C133 duration, not even Live TV, due to no A/V-out.

Since part of the update is to allow OTT apps to work when a C133 happens, perhaps once my recordings have finished and the update finishes on reboot, there may be a few pleasant surprises the next time a C133 happens.

One can hope, right?


----------



## nooneuknow

CloudAtlas said:


> The code was pulled due to the bug and will be fixed in the next release in three months. Will flogging the software developer in the square at noon be ample punishment?


Here's what this post used to say:



CloudAtlas said:


> lpwcomp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what I think might have happened. Some shining example of the "Peter Principle" in action noticed that the DirecTV DVR could do it, decided that a TiVo should to be able to do it, and either wasn't informed of or ignored the flaw in this thinking. Some developer figured out a way to kludge the system to add it and neither he nor the testers (assuming any real testing was done) considered the scheduling end cases. And yes, I'm ignoring the (IMHO minor) a/v glitch problem.
> 
> 
> 
> It's like watching FOX news. You just make up a scenario and talk about it when you have ZERO knowledge about what went into the development of this feature. The idea that you can see the flaw or problem immediately while the people who designed and implemented it couldn't just shows a complete lack of respect for others in addition to a superiority complex.
> 
> The code was pulled due to the bug and will be fixed in the next release in three months. Will flogging the software developer in the square at noon be ample punishment?
Click to expand...


----------



## lpwcomp

rainwater said:


> Maybe if it only applies to single recordings. Season Pass recordings shouldn't even be allowed to use KUID (unless they add a secret backdoor for power users) because it is just a support nightmare when the TiVo does not record a users programs because they aren't clear how that option works.


----------



## CloudAtlas

nooneuknow said:


> how often your post count declines to the mid 90's, after exceeding 100 you might be well-off to remember who else might take notice of that.


You just made the above up and then stated it as fact. The reason it's sat in the mid 90's for so long is that I wasn't posting as there was no new news on TiVo updates both software and hardware. Late last year we had software and hardware releases often on both Roamio, Mini and Premiere. It was like Christmas every few weeks.


----------



## nooneuknow

CloudAtlas said:


> You just made the above up and then stated it as fact. The reason it's sat in the mid 90's for so long is that I wasn't posting as there was no new news on TiVo updates both software and hardware. Late last year we had software and hardware releases often on both Roamio, Mini and Premiere. It was like Christmas every few weeks.


Did I make this post up, that you didn't dare to delete, which would have proven what I allegedly "made up".

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10067973#post10067973

The PM you just sent me, which I have forwarded, and can't be "made up":



CloudAtlas said:


> You're such a ****ing *******. Please don't have children.


----------



## nooneuknow

Finally, recordings done for the night, and three base Roamios updating right now... Praying I didn't make a bad choice by rebooting without giving more time to make sure the C133 was going to stay gone...

Crossing my fingers and praying to the TiVo gods that nothing bad happens...


----------



## moonscape

All this nonsense in a release notes thread? Seriously?


----------



## nooneuknow

moonscape said:


> All this nonsense in a release notes thread? Seriously?


The BS aside, a C133 happening in the middle of a software rollout isn't something I can recall ever happening. Nevada, NYC, and who knows where else, aren't what I'd call a small regional non-issue, and even TiVo's shiny new service status page reported a partial outage.

I'd have preferred that the relevant discussion would've moved to the status page thread I created, or a pre-existing C133 thread. I did try to nudge it away from here.

All three base Roamios updated, are up, no issues noted and are in the process of 1st manual service connection, post update.

I'll be happy if nothing new is broken, and hope to see the same-tuner overlap enhancement return in the "Summer Update".

Edit/Add: Connections and downloads complete, all seems well so far, noticing the TV brightness pulsing as I scroll up/down through the menus, and with every remote button press...


----------



## lpwcomp

moonscape said:


> All this nonsense in a release notes thread? Seriously?


Point taken, but in my defense, I keep hoping that someone at TiVo will take notice of the fact that their design/development/test process is seriously flawed and that they will then at least attempt to fix it.

Getting back to the matter at hand, I too have experienced a sluggish TiVo when transferring to the TiVo, including strobing while playing back a recording, as initially reported by moyekj.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Getting back to the matter at hand, I too have experienced a sluggish TiVo when transferring to the TiVo, including strobing while playing back a recording, as initially reported by moyekj.


Are you getting a pulsing/strobing effect with navigation within a menu screen? I mean aside from the white morse code-like noise transversing between menus or between Live TV/Playback and the menus, which has been reported and reproduced, and I see as well... The latter goes away if you turn off the video window.

Maybe tomorrow I'll make a poll thread on what output resolutions people are using, and get a discussion going on the current state of the video scaler... It seems like something worth doing, and might help remove some of the "extraneous" discussion here.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> Are you getting a pulsing/strobing effect with navigation within a menu screen? I mean aside from the white morse code-like noise transversing between menus or between Live TV/Playback and the menus, which has been reported and reproduced, and I see as well... The latter goes away if you turn off the video window.


I suppose it could be described as strobing but for the menus I would probably use "hesitant and jerky". Haven't noticed the noise but my eyesight leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## HarperVision

questors said:


> The minor outage extends from New York to California.


Oh cool, that explains why I'm safe here in Hi!  (from the C133, not the bickering, unfortunately)


----------



## lgnad

The only oddity I've noticed so far was my Roamio was missing in the IOS app for several hours but I could still manage it by selecting my mini (running 20.3.8)

Now it's back, but only working in 'out of home' mode. I haven't rebooted the roamio yet


----------



## jcthorne

My Roamio is definitely less responsive that before the update. The menus freeze for long pauses and ignore remote inputs. Eventually comes back but its very annoying for a box that was working great in this regard. They broke something.

I see the problem using the mini as well. Long pause when accessing a recording.


----------



## uw69

jcthorne said:


> My Roamio is definitely less responsive that before the update. The menus freeze for long pauses and ignore remote inputs. Eventually comes back but its very annoying for a box that was working great in this regard. They broke something.
> 
> I see the problem using the mini as well. Long pause when accessing a recording.


+1


----------



## CrispyCritter

I saw no problems last night.

The outage has the symptoms of a DNS problem - if you or your ISP got bad DNS info, you would be stuck until it timed out. That would account for the extreme spottiness of the outage.


----------



## Lyme Greene

Just wanted to add the problems I've noticed so far with my tivo roamio plus:

Blank screen from tivo, twice. Touching front buttons brought it back

YouTube tv queue keeps crashing after about 10 videos or so. Crashes back to the main tivo menu. iPhone queue disappears too, so it may be an app issue?

Next video is clipped in the tv queue on YouTube. Miss a couple of seconds at the start of the next clip. I also hate the 10 seconds between clips and the dark color countdown. I have trouble seeing the numbers. 

Tivo desktop could not see the roamio. Priemere (20.3.8) could be seen, and the premiere could see and transfer to and from roamio and desktop. Unplugging roamio allowed tivo desktop to be seen. 

Tivo app showed roamio off network and wouldn't allow me to stream. This was when the tivo was showing up blank on tv. I'm think it was in standby mode? Working now. 

Tivo premiere was showing c133 error. 

I've noticed these issues with just a little bit of use.


----------



## jwbelcher

CrispyCritter said:


> I saw no problems last night.
> 
> The outage has the symptoms of a DNS problem - if you or your ISP got bad DNS info, you would be stuck until it timed out. That would account for the extreme spottiness of the outage.


If TiVo has multiple DNS entries on the same name, for load balancing purposes, one box could be fine in a household while another experienced issues. Typically a box (e.g. linux, windows) will cache the name resolution after the first lookup for and reuse the IP address some period of time. This could explain the partial outage; if they had one server in their farm go down.

The same could be true if they're using a load balancer on the backend depending on how they distribute load.


----------



## MLM1

lgnad said:


> The only oddity I've noticed so far was my Roamio was missing in the IOS app for several hours but I could still manage it by selecting my mini (running 20.3.8)
> 
> Now it's back, but only working in 'out of home' mode. I haven't rebooted the roamio yet


I had the same problem with the iOS app (out of home mode, no remote control) after last night's C133 issues. App made me log in again. Restarting my Stream did nothing, but restarting my Roamio got in home streaming working. At first, not all of the app remote buttons were working (e.g., Pause worked but Play didn't), but after a few minutes it was OK. FWIW my Roamio has not received the update yet.


----------



## lpwcomp

While watching the series finale of "Being Human" at @0430 this morning, my Roamio Basic spontaneously rebooted. No problem resuming viewing after reboot completed.


----------



## Bierboy

rainwater said:


> Maybe if it only applies to single recordings. Season Pass recordings shouldn't even be allowed to use KUID (unless they add a secret backdoor for power users) because it is just a support nightmare when the TiVo does not record a users programs because they aren't clear how that option works.


Hogwash...once again, you're assuming most TiVo users are neanderthals.


----------



## Bierboy

jcthorne said:


> My Roamio is definitely less responsive that before the update. The menus freeze for long pauses and ignore remote inputs. Eventually comes back but its very annoying for a box that was working great in this regard. They broke something.
> 
> I see the problem using the mini as well. Long pause when accessing a recording.


I'm seeing the same thing on my XL4. Granted it wasn't a speed demon before, but now it's gotten 10X worse....


----------



## Flyguyjake

Anyone know when the update will be available again?


----------



## rainwater

Bierboy said:


> Hogwash...once again, you're assuming most TiVo users are neanderthals.


Neanderthals? No. I've been using TiVo's for over 10 years now. Even I have issues understanding why KUID stops recordings from taking place. No setting should stop recordings from taking place when the user expects them to. There is just no way they are going to provide that option as a default.


----------



## lpwcomp

rainwater said:


> Neanderthals? No. I've been using TiVo's for over 10 years now. Even I have issues understanding why KUID stops recordings from taking place. No setting should stop recordings from taking place when the user expects them to. There is just no way they are going to provide that option as a default.


"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."

Your way, people are still going to complain when a recording gets deleted before they got around to watching it.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> "You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
> 
> Your way, people are still going to complain when a recording gets deleted before they got around to watching it.


Bierboy just can't ferment up enough debate in the Premiere update thread, so he's trying to brew it up elsewhere.

He doesn't even own a Roamio (or if he does, keeps it a secret). So, I don't understand why people are indulging his addiction/compulsion.

TiVo gives us something we never had before, leaves out one potential option, and the world is ending? Here, I thought I was bad...

We have more than we did before, and what was included as part of the new recording defaults menu works. Why can't we just be thankful they added something that (apparently) has no downside? AFAIK, it didn't "break" anything (not speaking to the whole update, just this matter).

I'm actually feeling like this is unfair to TiVo. I'm not even a TiVo fanboy and feel bad that TiVo is being lambasted over something so trivial. Did they take away our ability to use KUID? NO! It's still an option, just as it was before.

All this talk about "advanced users" this and that... If we're so advanced, we don't NEED it as the default, as we know where to set it.

If we're all stupid, idiots, luddites, farmers, amish, etc., TiVo still made a good call, IMO. KUID can cause plenty of issues, and us simpletons will never find our way into where the option has been available for how long now, since we're also neanderthals.

There's upsides and downsides to KUID. IMO, the setting is right where it belongs. I almost didn't think to mention it can also be set on things already recorded without a KUID set during scheduling.

I still find the loss of using ChUp and ChDn to go through recordings a far more annoying loss/omission. Look at how many navigations it takes to work through a long list in a folder, and review/change anything. That wonderful, and useful, navigation has been gone for a long time, and I still care more about that than this ridiculous KUID tirade/tangent.

Grab a copy of KMTTG if you're an "advanced user" and want to manage "Keep Until". It's especially great for managing a whole home of TiVos.


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> Bierboy just can't ferment up enough debate in the Premiere update thread, so he's trying to brew it up elsewhere.
> 
> He doesn't even own a Roamio (or if he does, keeps it a secret). So, I don't understand why people are indulging his addiction/compulsion.
> 
> TiVo gives us something we never had before, leaves out one potential option, and the world is ending? Here, I thought I was bad...
> 
> We have more than we did before, and what was included as part of the new recording defaults menu works. Why can't we just be thankful they added something that (apparently) has no downside? AFAIK, it didn't "break" anything (not speaking to the whole update, just this matter).
> 
> I'm actually feeling like this is unfair to TiVo. I'm not even a TiVo fanboy and feel bad that TiVo is being lambasted over something so trivial. Did they take away our ability to use KUID? NO! It's still an option, just as it was before.
> 
> All this talk about "advanced users" this and that... If we're so advanced, we don't NEED it as the default, as we know where to set it.
> 
> If we're all stupid, idiots, luddites, farmers, amish, etc., TiVo still made a good call, IMO. KUID can cause plenty of issues, and us simpletons will never find our way into where the option has been available for how long now, since we're also neanderthals.
> 
> There's upsides and downsides to KUID. IMO, the setting is right where it belongs. I almost didn't think to mention it can also be set on things already recorded without a KUID set during scheduling.
> 
> I still find the loss of using ChUp and ChDn to go through recordings a far more annoying loss/omission. Look at how many navigations it takes to work through a long list in a folder, and review/change anything. That wonderful, and useful, navigation has been gone for a long time, and I still care more about that than this ridiculous KUID tirade/tangent.
> 
> Grab a copy of KMTTG if you're an "advanced user" and want to manage "Keep Until". It's especially great for managing a whole home of TiVos.


While I don't really have a problem with it being left out of the new default settings, I do have a problem with Rainwater's contention that it _*shouldn't even be an option when creating a season pass!*_


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

rainwater said:


> Neanderthals? No. I've been using TiVo's for over 10 years now. Even I have issues understanding why KUID stops recordings from taking place. No setting should stop recordings from taking place when the user expects them to. There is just no way they are going to provide that option as a default.





lpwcomp said:


> Your way, people are still going to complain when a recording gets deleted before they got around to watching it.


Yeah, it's a rock and a hard place. Or an irresistible force and an immovable object. Or some other thing and the thing that shouldn't be there with that thing.

Because while it's true that no setting should stop recordings from taking place when the user expects them to, it's also true that no setting should delete a recording that's been set to "Keep Until I Delete."


----------



## randian

rainwater said:


> Neanderthals? No. I've been using TiVo's for over 10 years now. Even I have issues understanding why KUID stops recordings from taking place. No setting should stop recordings from taking place when the user expects them to. There is just no way they are going to provide that option as a default.


We're not asking _them_ to make KUID the default, we're asking them to allow _us_ to make it the default.


----------



## andyf

I'm hoping the iOS app gets updated to take advantage of the new default settings. I schedule all my recordings on the iPad.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> While I don't really have a problem with it being left out of the new default settings, I do have a problem with Rainwater's contention that it _*shouldn't even be an option when creating a season pass!*_


100% agree w/you. :up:


----------



## BadDuck

I saw this thread and was excited to read what you guys were discussing regarding the 20.4.1 release notes and am a little confused by the bs in here. Name calling, advanced users, arguing over who has what box? Seriously? I'm not trying to sound too negative and get attacked but some of these posts are just out of line. I am aware I don't post much but really do enjoy reading and learning from this forum.


----------



## midas

Really guys, it's very simple math. Tivo knows how many calls they get because someone has used KUID and are either getting warnings or actual missed recordings. They also know how many calls they get about things getting deleted unexpectedly. They obviously get more calls on the former rather than the latter. And they aren't going to do something that's going to increase those phone calls.


----------



## ncfoster

BadDuck said:


> I saw this thread and was excited to read what you guys were discussing regarding the 20.4.1 release notes and am a little confused by the bs in here. Name calling, advanced users, arguing over who has what box? Seriously? I'm not trying to sound too negative and get attacked but some of these posts are just out of line. I am aware I don't post much but really do enjoy reading and learning from this forum.


+1


----------



## randian

midas said:


> And they aren't going to do something that's going to increase those phone calls.


How would allowing us to make KUID the default for new season passes increase phone calls? Somebody who is not an idiot and will not call TiVo because they stupidly expect a full disk to record when everything on it is Keep Until I Delete will also not be an idiot when setting KUID as the default for new SPs. Or if you prefer, since you cannot make software idiot-proof, the universe being quite capable of creating greater idiots, you should not compound that error by also making your software expert-proof.


----------



## moonscape

ncfoster said:


> +1


+1,000,000


----------



## nooneuknow

BadDuck said:


> I saw this thread and was excited to read what you guys were discussing regarding the 20.4.1 release notes and am a little confused by the bs in here. Name calling, advanced users, arguing over who has what box? Seriously? I'm not trying to sound too negative and get attacked but some of these posts are just out of line. I am aware I don't post much but really do enjoy reading and learning from this forum.


It sounds like you could possibly be speaking of my prior post, just not in the way I wanted it to come across (or intended it to).

I was pointing out the name-calling, which has been carried-over from other threads. Every name/term I used has been thrown around, by others, before my post. It was getting on my nerves, and I tried a bit of satire to express that.

If one owns a Premiere, and feels they aren't getting enough reaction in the Premiere thread, why carry it over to another platform's thread?

I have no annoyance with a comment from a Premiere user, like these examples: "The Premieres got that too", or "My Premieres are having the same issue since the update". - It can be helpful to know more than one platform is affected, sometimes. Offering help/advice while being on another platform, while the help/advice still applies is a good thing.

It's the trolling for reactions, as well as trying to force one's opinion/agenda upon everybody else, and then picking fights when it doesn't work, that I have had enough of. I know I'm not alone. There are good reasons for why the forums have different threads for different platforms.

It sounds like we are mostly on the same page, and you simply misunderstood my post, or haven't seen all that leads up to it.

I'm guilty of some transgressions of etiquette as well. I can either withdraw, or just try to do better.


----------



## BadDuck

I was not attempting to single you out noone. I really enjoy this forum and just like any forum things can get a little heated from time to time.


----------



## jcthorne

Flyguyjake said:


> Anyone know when the update will be available again?


You don't want it. They have fixing to do before this goes out.


----------



## midas

randian said:


> How would allowing us to make KUID the default for new season passes increase phone calls? Somebody who is not an idiot and will not call TiVo because they stupidly expect a full disk to record when everything on it is Keep Until I Delete will also not be an idiot when setting KUID as the default for new SPs.


First, the problem is not just things not recording because the disk is full. That's something you'd have to be a moron to not understand. What isn't understood is when you are unable to schedule a recording because the system thinks it will be full.

The fact is, Tivo does get calls on this. Making it a settable default will increase those calls.



> Or if you prefer, since you cannot make software idiot-proof, the universe being quite capable of creating greater idiots, you should not compound that error by also making your software expert-proof.


It's the way of the world. You know, all those warning labels you see on products? Especially the ones that you say to yourself, "Who would be that stupid?" Well, everyone of things is something that somebody did and either called the company to complain or, worse, sued them. You need to manage your user-base.

Hey, if you want to change the world, here's what you do. Call Tivo and complain about the feature not being there. Have everyone you know call. Have them call every day, maybe even a few times a day. When they get more calls complaining about this feature not being there than they get from people that don't understand KUID, you'll get your feature.


----------



## aaronwt

jcthorne said:


> You don't want it. They have fixing to do before this goes out.


Mine is working fine. So far I've seen no issues on my Roamio Pro and Roamio Basic with the new update.


----------



## moyekj

aaronwt said:


> Mine is working fine. So far I've seen no issues on my Roamio Pro and Roamio Basic with the new update.


 Try MRV and you'll see the receiving unit gets sluggish during the transfer.


----------



## Bierboy

randian said:


> We're not asking _them_ to make KUID the default, we're asking them to allow _us_ to make it the default.


Exactly....geesh. I don't know how many times I (and others) have to point this out.....


----------



## anthonymoody

Bierboy said:


> Exactly....geesh. I don't know how many times I (and others) have to point this out.....


Classic case of people who believe that their own personal POV and/or experience is or ought to be universal for all people.


----------



## dbattaglia001

aaronwt said:


> Mine is working fine. So far I've seen no issues on my Roamio Pro and Roamio Basic with the new update.


Outside of a quickly resolved hicckup with streaming and ooh streaming that I'm not sure whether it was related to software update or not, the new update has caused no issues to me.


----------



## waynomo

anthonymoody said:


> Classic case of people who believe that their own personal POV and/or experience is or ought to be universal for all people.


And intolerance for others' preferences.


----------



## thalador

Figured I would come post since my Roamio just rebooted itself again.. Come on, spring update fix eta?


----------



## nooneuknow

<This is me sitting on the sidelines, wishing people would stop feeding the non-Roamio-owning person/persons that carried over their agendas and debates from the Premiere thread, along with more participants & all the chaos that comes with it all>

Never mind... If I start a thread with KUID in the title, will everybody just take it there?

Never mind... I shouldn't have to start a thread on a debate I have no interest in participating in. I said all a have to say about it, and won't be swayed.

Would you, pretty please, create a thread for the KUID and recording defaults screen subject matter, and take it all there? I'm practically begging... Please?

I know I can't make it happen. So, I'm asking, nicely, please?


----------



## rgr

midas said:


> First, the problem is not just things not recording because the disk is full. That's something you'd have to be a moron to not understand. What isn't understood is when you are unable to schedule a recording because the system thinks it will be full.
> 
> The fact is, Tivo does get calls on this. Making it a settable default will increase those calls.


 Could not the support calls be all but eliminated by adding a notification for the reason a recording cannot be done or scheduled?

Something along the lines of "Your request cannot be completed due to a lack of recording space. Please make some deletions, then retry the request."


----------



## lpwcomp

nooneuknow said:


> <This is me sitting on the sidelines, wishing people would stop feeding the non-Roamio-owning person/persons that carried over their agendas and debates from the Premiere thread, along with more participants & all the chaos that comes with it all>


I realize there are separate sub-forums for Premiere and Roamio, but it seems rather silly to have two threads for the 20.4.1 release since it went to both.



nooneuknow said:


> Never mind... If I start a thread with KUID in the title, will everybody just take it there?


You have to remember that this discussion started because of the new "Default Recording Options" settings screen which was added by this release.

Edit: KUID Poll & thread. (No, I didn't create it)


----------



## midas

rgr said:


> Could not the support calls be all but eliminated by adding a notification for the reason a recording cannot be done or scheduled?
> 
> Something along the lines of "Your request cannot be completed due to a lack of recording space. Please make some deletions, then retry the request."


I believe you get a message very similar to that. The problem is, the disk isn't full. But TiVo had to assume it will record everything you've told it to record and that you will have deleted nothing. Thus it will be out of space. But since it isn't out of space when you try to set the recording, the next step is to call support to find out why.

Let me ask you a simple question. Why do you think Tivo left that option out? Do you think they just forgot? Or maybe you think they did it just to piss you of? Or do think they did it because they know what the impact will be on support?


----------



## randian

midas said:


> I believe you get a message very similar to that. The problem is, the disk isn't full. But TiVo had to assume it will record everything you've told it to record and that you will have deleted nothing. Thus it will be out of space.


Then the real problem is the message itself. What the TiVo should say is something more like "you will not have space for this recording if you do not delete shows before this recording is scheduled to air. Do you still want to record this (Y/N)?" That everybody would understand, because it makes it clear that the problem is not free space right now (of which there could be plenty) but free space in the future. Forbidding you from creating the recording request is another flaw of the current system. If a user wants to record something that might (emphasis on might) not happen that should be allowed.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> I realize there are separate sub-forums for Premiere and Roamio, but it seems rather silly to have two threads for the 20.4.1 release since it went to both.
> 
> You have to remember that this discussion started because of the new "Default Recording Options" settings screen which was added by this release.


I never did like that almost everything has a Premiere and a Roamio thread, especially since the software consolidated. Some things are just better in a platform-agnostic thread.

I just recall that one of my reasons I went Roamio was if I posted in the Roamio threads "hey I've got that too, on my Premiere", I'd get tarred and feathered, and told to keep it in the Premiere thread. TiVoMargret had 98% of her TCF interaction solely on Roamios and Minis for a while. I felt like a second-class citizen, and the mods pulled my posts, regarding cross-platform bugs.

I decided to move to the platform where the support presence was. Now that I have, can you blame me for disliking that NOW it's OK for Premiere posts in the Roamio areas? I might still be running on Premieres if I hadn't felt like such a second-class citizen.

So, there, it's out now. I have a personal reason as part of my objections, and am taking some things personally, when I shouldn't...

Hypothetically, I wonder how the water would be if I started double posting everything to both threads, when I no longer have Premieres. Hypothetically, the door should swing both ways, and the potential to have it hit you in the rear should be equal then... Seems like a recipe for a mess...


----------



## leiff

My mini needs to be rebooted daily since update because component out will not display video intil i do. Just a black screen. Audio continues to work. Im already using hdmi to mirror a second display


----------



## midas

randian said:


> Then the real problem is the message itself. What the TiVo should say is something more like "you will not have space for this recording if you do not delete shows before this recording is scheduled to air. Do you still want to record this (Y/N)?" That everybody would understand, because it makes it clear that the problem is not free space right now (of which there could be plenty) but free space in the future. Forbidding you from creating the recording request is another flaw of the current system. If a user wants to record something that might (emphasis on might) not happen that should be allowed.


So, you want them to add another feature, change some of the displayed messages, and you want to change how the conflict resolution system works. Sorry, I'd rather see them fix the current bugs.

BTW, this is how the KUID has functioned since the Series 1 so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to change it. If it bothers you that much then maybe Tivo isn't the right product for you.


----------



## morac

randian said:


> Then the real problem is the message itself. What the TiVo should say is something more like "you will not have space for this recording if you do not delete shows before this recording is scheduled to air. Do you still want to record this (Y/N)?" That everybody would understand, because it makes it clear that the problem is not free space right now (of which there could be plenty) but free space in the future. Forbidding you from creating the recording request is another flaw of the current system. If a user wants to record something that might (emphasis on might) not happen that should be allowed.


That wouldn't work because if the person chooses "Y" and then doesn't delete any recorded shows before that show is scheduled to record, it won't record and the person won't know why and will complain that the "stupid TiVo didn't record [his] show."


----------



## nooneuknow

midas said:


> So, you want them to add another feature, change some of the displayed messages, and you want to change how the conflict resolution system works. Sorry, I'd rather see them fix the current bugs.
> 
> BTW, this is how the KUID has functioned since the Series 1 so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to change it. If it bothers you that much then maybe Tivo isn't the right product for you.


+1 :up:

I do hope the same-tuner overlap handling returns soon. Since it's been released twice, only to be disabled once again, I think it could be grandfathered in as "current", as opposed to something new, that has never been implemented.

Understandably, I imagine more people would like to be able to use native, or multiple resolutions, than the current "pick one, or suffer more issues" "solution". I miss the rapid pace of the early fixes for the Roamios, which has now gone to seasonal releases. I hope there's upsides to the waiting. But, it seems like even with the waiting, we all are the "field trials", either due to lack of testing participants, or some that are just signing up to try and get new things before anybody else, and don't do as is requested of them...

As previously mentioned, at some point, the one central TiVo, and Minis where TiVos used to go model, would be ripe for testing participants to wind up with nothing working, or everything working in a miserable manner. Who's willing to sign up for that? The people with multiple TiVos are the best shot, as they can sign up a specific TSN, and not the other. But, then there could be interoperability issues... It seems like TiVo is going to have to rely more on good solid, internal testing, and less on the general public, if they want to keep both MSO and retail customers happy. I'm not convinced they have the capacity to do that, in place, at this time, given the bugs and glitches that make it to the rollouts...

I'm trying to stick to matters that I have seen multiple mentions of, and not ones that seem to be "only me". That still leaves a lot open to reflect on.


----------



## mattack

innocentfreak said:


> The thing is the Series 1 and Series 2 had this.


Umm, what? I haven't fired up my S1s in a long time, but I sure don't remember any default options.. The sequence was always effectively the same as it was on my S1 and my S3s & P4 and Roamio up until this new option:

new season pass
change to NEW ONLY (the vast majority of them)
change to ALL episodes
add one minute post padding

Very minor, but yes, tedious, and the thing I want computers to do for me....


----------



## midas

nooneuknow said:


> As previously mentioned, at some point, the one central TiVo, and Minis where TiVos used to go model, would be ripe for testing participants to wind up with nothing working, or everything working in a miserable manner. Who's willing to sign up for that? The people with multiple TiVos are the best shot, as they can sign up a specific TSN, and not the other. But, then there could be interoperability issues... It seems like TiVo is going to have to rely more on good solid, internal testing, and less on the general public, if they want to keep both MSO and retail customers happy. I'm not convinced they have the capacity to do that, in place, at this time, given the bugs and glitches that make it to the rollouts...


There is a lot of truth in this. I was one that always signed up to beta test in the past. I only signed up my Tivo and left the one my wife uses alone. But now that we're a Roamio/Mini family I just don't feel comfortable beta testing.

I did sign up for the priority list, but I'll think hard about doing it in the future. My motivation for signing up was that I was impacted heavily by the overlapping tuner bug. I watch a lot of sports on the regional sports network here and had missed quite a few recordings because of excessive padding. But unless the next release fixes something that dramatically impacts me, I'll wait for it all to shake out.

Ironically, I've been lucky and haven't really had any issues with this release. The overlapping tuner bug has fixed my sports recordings. But, of course, I'm seeing more conflicts due to the small padding required for many of the shows we watch. So like you, I'd like to see it implemented the way it was prior release, but to also fix the part that causes missed recordings.

And I think they will eventually get it working right. They pretty much have to since they have to compete with the cable company supplied DVRs. In the past it wasn't much competition. But Comcast has really stepped up their game with the X1 and soon to be X2 platform. Since that's the market I'm in I'm not really familiar with what the other companies are doing, but I assume they are doing similar things.


----------



## randian

morac said:


> That wouldn't work because if the person chooses "Y" and then doesn't delete any recorded shows before that show is scheduled to record, it won't record and the person won't know why and will complain that the "stupid TiVo didn't record [his] show."


Apparently your person can't read, because my message told him exactly why it won't record: "you will not have space for this recording if you do not delete shows before this recording is scheduled to air".


----------



## moonscape

My Roamio Pro froze while I was watching a recording, then rebooted. I don't think this is related to this release, but mention it anyway. It's the second time it happened, but the first was before this last release.


----------



## nooneuknow

I've actually noticed many "issues", but most of it has been AV issues with the recordings that happened when my Roamios all went black (no sustainable A/V output) for the duration of the C133, and all had downloaded, but hadn't yet installed the update.

It's installed now, and I need to work my way through pre-update period, during C133 period, after C133 period, and finally what recorded after the update installed.

Until then, other than a few minor annoyances, to start listing what I've noticed would be premature.

To discuss what was disabled in the update, what is new in the update, and what people feel should have been in and wasn't in the update, has proven to be a mostly futile effort.

I also need to call Cox out and have my signal checked, to insure the quality of my cable signal is not being confused with TiVo issues.


----------



## ncfoster

I want to cry reading the back and forth about whether KUID should be a selectable default in this thread. SOMEBODY MAKE IT STOP!!!!


----------



## ncfoster

On a substantive point (which I am sure will get lost in the nonsense), it seems as if the behavior on the Mini has changed as far as reliably releasing a tuner back to my Roamio Pro. The first time, I gave my wife some grief about not remembering to double-press the Tivo button before turning things off in the basement. However, I've found that it either doesn't work, or is less reliable, since the Spring Update (on both devices).

Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## nooneuknow

ncfoster said:


> I want to cry reading the back and forth about whether KUID should be a selectable default in this thread. SOMEBODY MAKE IT STOP!!!!


+1,000,000 :up: :up: :up: I tried, no dice.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Edit: KUID Poll & thread. (No, I didn't create it)


Unfortunately, it's not active enough to make the new-posts list, on the many occasions I've checked to see if it has...

Besides bumping attention to it with this post, I guess I'd better go subscribe, vote, post, and give it a bump.

The problem with poll threads is they don't get bumped by votes alone. It takes new posts to keep them afloat.


----------



## bigguy126

Last night Roamio pro was recording 2 channels and I was watching one of them in delay. The delayed one's picture and audio froze for like 5 seconds and I knew it was going to reboot. I quickly hit the tivo button and it seemed to get it out of that state. New behavior to me since last update.


----------



## lessd

randian said:


> Apparently your person can't read, because my message told him exactly why it won't record: "you will not have space for this recording if you do not delete shows before this recording is scheduled to air".


In the Series 2 days my wife use to use KUID than came to me about why her TiVo stopped recording many programs after a two week vacation, she was about to throw the TiVo out the window, it took me some time to find out that KUID was the problem and I almost called TiVo. With 6 tuners an option KUID for all recordings will give more problems than it will solve, what happens when say you want to save only one NBC news program and use KUID by error when setting up your SP ??


----------



## Bierboy

lessd said:


> ...KUID for all recordings will give more problems than it will solve...


Who the hell says "use KUID for all recordings"? I sure didn't. All I (and several others) are saying is let us CHOOSE as a default for crap's sake; that doesn't mean we'll KUID all recordings. How complicated is that?


----------



## rgr

midas said:


> Let me ask you a simple question. Why do you think Tivo left that option out? Do you think they just forgot? Or maybe you think they did it just to piss you of? Or do think they did it because they know what the impact will be on support?


I assume it was left out because they no longer saw the rationale for keeping it, what with the much larger drive spaces now available. I rarely go above 20% usage and so this option or lack therof has zero impact on me. My comment was a sincere attempt to see a middle ground between the absolutists on both sides ("TiVo made a change for some good reason and that is good enough for me" vs. "since I like the way it was it should never change"). And if they made the change to piss me off, it failed - since I'm not pissed off in the slightest.


----------



## spaldingclan

rgr said:


> I assume it was left out because they no longer saw the rationale for keeping it, what with the much larger drive spaces now available. I rarely go above 20% usage and so this option or lack therof has zero impact on me. My comment was a sincere attempt to see a middle ground between the absolutists on both sides ("TiVo made a change for some good reason and that is good enough for me" vs. "since I like the way it was it should never change"). And if they made the change to piss me off, it failed - since I'm not pissed off in the slightest.


try cutting the cord and you'll almost never go over 10% full. I have much less for choice to record than I used to and now I'm almost always caught up. I KUID stuff that I want to keep for a LONG time.


----------



## lpwcomp

You can't have it both ways.

Just as the participants in this poll are not typical TiVo users, neither are those that install larger hard drives.

If the larger hard drives make it so your drive never fills up, then setting a show to KUID isn't going to cause you to miss recording something, now is it?

Finally, I am really tired of people thinking that the way *they* use a TiVo and its features is the "right" way to use it. And/Or insist that TiVo limit the capabilities to the lowest common denominator.

Edit: Sorry about about posting this in this thread. I had two notifications when I came back to my computer and got confused as to which thread I was in. Would people please refrain from posting here about KUID and instead move it to the new thread?


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Just as the participants in this poll are not typical TiVo users, neither are those that install larger hard drives.
> 
> If the larger hard drives make it so your drive never fills up, then setting a show to KUID isn't going to cause you to miss recording something, now is it?
> 
> Finally, I am really tired of people thinking that the way *they* use a TiVo and its features is the "right" way to use it. And/Or insist that TiVo limit the capabilities to the lowest common denominator.


+1 :up:

So, does that make us relatives now?

The way you just laid it out is as good, or better than, I could've. Some of the same folks arguing about this are the very same folks who have told me, I can't have it both ways, or how I use my TiVo is irrelevant. Yet, here some of them are wanting it both ways, and saying how they use their TiVo is of the utmost relevance. When the next update rolls, I fully expect more of the same, and from some of the same people.


----------



## enzo thecat

Philmatic said:


> Here is what the new "Default Recording Options" screen looks like:


Why dont I have this option?????????

I have no such option. My menu looks like this..

Settings>
Recording>
Overlap Protection, Extend Live Recordings, Tivo Suggestions

"Extend Live Recording" is just a Yes/No option to remind me to add extra time.


----------



## lpwcomp

enzo thecat said:


> Why dont I have this option?????????


Because:

You are a are recent TiVo owner
_*and*_
you didn't sign up for the early release
_*and*_
the general release has been delayed

therefore you are not running the latest s/w version that added this option.


----------



## enzo thecat

lpwcomp said:


> Because:
> 
> You are a are recent TiVo owner
> _*and*_
> you didn't sign up for the early release
> _*and*_
> the general release has been delayed
> 
> therefore you are not running the latest s/w version that added this option.


Okay. Thanks. Still learning how all this works. The Tivo experience is definitely unique


----------



## CoxInPHX

TiVoMargret said:


> We will begin updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with 20.4.1 "Spring Update" later today.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> 
> - YouTube and Opera Store Apps should now work with all video resolutions (not just 720p and greater)


Pandora should have been listed also; now works with all video resolutions (not just 720p and greater)


----------



## lessd

Bierboy said:


> Who the hell says "use KUID for all recordings"? I sure didn't. All I (and several others) are saying is let us CHOOSE as a default for crap's sake; that doesn't mean we'll KUID all recordings. How complicated is that?


People (not you of course) will set up the KUID a the standard option and forget to change it for each SP they don't need KUID, ergo the DVR will eventually have a problem by getting full.
With 300 to 450 hours KUID is not needed for most people, except people with OCD.


----------



## waynomo

lessd said:


> People (not you of course) will set up the KUID a the standard option and forget to change it for each SP they don't need KUID, ergo the DVR will eventually have a problem by getting full.
> With 300 to 450 hours KUID is not needed for most people, except people with OCD.


Must refrain from commenting.


----------



## GmanTiVo

lessd said:


> People (not you of course) will set up the KUID a the standard option and forget to change it for each SP they don't need KUID, ergo the DVR will eventually have a problem by getting full.
> With 300 to 450 hours KUID is not needed for most people, except people with OCD.


*lessd*, a comment like this lands you on my "Ignore" list, glad to not read your posts any longer <poof>

[On the soap box]

Dear TiVo,
It is fine to have a pre-set out of the box plug and play default setting *BUT* as a long time owner & user of your equipment I am a stounch advocate of allowing owners of a TiVo DVR to *make their own choices* and have maximum flexibility with regards to settings, viewing & recording options to enhances one's own viewing pleasure and of course never to the detriment of the basic fundamental recording capability of the DVR

Enuff said on this topic..... hopefully someone a TiVo is listening and checking their ego at the door.

[Stepping off]

Gman


----------



## CrispyCritter

GmanTiVo said:


> *lessd*, a comment like this lands you on my "Ignore" list, glad to not read your posts any longer <poof>
> 
> [On the soap box]
> 
> Dear TiVo,
> It is fine to have a pre-set out of the box plug and play default setting *BUT* as a long time owner & user of your equipment I am a stounch advocate of allowing owners of a TiVo DVR to *make their own choices* and have maximum flexibility with regards to settings, viewing & recording options to enhances one's own viewing pleasure and of course never to the detriment of the basic fundamental recording capability of the DVR
> 
> Enuff said on this topic..... hopefully someone a TiVo is listening and checking their ego at the door.


You're a staunch advocate of that, and I greatly sympathize, but TiVo is not and never has been. Despite their slogan, TiVo has never been about fine-grained options for the user - there's been any number of them proposed over the years and not implemented. TiVo is about ease of use and is about that even more now that the focus is on the cable system TiVos. TiVo undoubtedly has a high-priority goal of minimizing the calls to customer support; that is a very important goal for the cable companies (and really, given the general quality of cable company support folks, minimizing the amount that they have to know is indeed important!!)

The KUID option would be nice, but as seen in the Series 1 days with tiny disks, it caused a lot of problems, and those problems were often non-obvious and very definitely not understandable by some users without a lot of support effort. TiVo knows this, so I suspect there's a high hurdle for the KUID default option. When I picture a typical cable company support person dealing with KUID problems, I shudder!


----------



## bbrown9

CrispyCritter said:


> The KUID option would be nice, but as seen in the Series 1 days with tiny disks, it caused a lot of problems, and those problems were often non-obvious and very definitely not understandable by some users without a lot of support effort. TiVo knows this, so I suspect there's a high hurdle for the KUID default option. When I picture a typical cable company support person dealing with KUID problems, I shudder!


I don't understand. Are people OK with TiVo deleting shows they've already recorded but haven't watched yet? How is that any different? I'd be more upset about that because the newer stuff can sometimes be found again in the schedule again. Not so much for the older stuff.


----------



## midas

bbrown9 said:


> I don't understand. Are people OK with TiVo deleting shows they've already recorded but haven't watched yet? How is that any different? I'd be more upset about that because the newer stuff can sometimes be found again in the schedule again. Not so much for the older stuff.


Well there's two parts to your question.

First, yes, I'm OK with that. If I haven't bothered to mark something KUID and it eventually gets deleted that means it's been on the Tivo for a long time. If I haven't watched in such a long time, it can't be that important.

The second part is actually more important because it has nothing to do with my personal preference. People were calling support, not only because things didn't get recorded, but also because they couldn't even schedule things when their Tivo wasn't actually full.


----------



## nooneuknow

cherry ghost said:


> KMTTG is great for clearing out the Deleted folder


Yes, I'd be very mad, if it weren't for KMTTG.

It took about 5 minutes to clear ~300 to 500 deleted items (each) on three Roamios, and 99% of that 5 minutes was just letting KMTTG clear them out.

Ctrl-A to select all, then press permanently delete.

Don't try to do it on more than one TiVo at a time, as it (in my case) didn't work to try and do them all. Still, only ~5 minutes total, to wait for one to finish, move on to the next, wait, then I did the third TiVo, easy-peasy, and done.

Perhaps multiple instances of KMTTG running could do multiple, concurrently, but that might have taken longer.


----------



## MisterTWo

bigguy126 said:


> Last night Roamio pro was recording 2 channels and I was watching one of them in delay. The delayed one's picture and audio froze for like 5 seconds and I knew it was going to reboot. I quickly hit the tivo button and it seemed to get it out of that state. New behavior to me since last update.


I had the exact same problem for the first time last night, the screen would freeze until I hit skip back then skip 30 seconds. It happened probably 10 times while watching a recording (but ff'd to live) with shows recording in the background. This is the first time I've had this issue since my Roamio was updated to 20.4.1 last week.


----------



## nooneuknow

I've had four distinct reboots, while doing very different things.

1. Doing nothing.
2. Watching Live TV.
3. Watching a recording.
4. Watching Netflix.

I'd say I've had at least seven reboots since the update, and that's just one Roamio. They are all supposedly on "log-monitoring", and I've been diligent in using the 777-clear for AV matters, and 911-clear for reboots and show-stoppers. I just hope somebody is actually doing something with it all. It's a lot of entertainment-interruptus...  

I'd love to be rolled-back, as long as that doesn't cause more problems. I didn't ever have any Netflix reboots on the prior software, which I was doing Netflix marathons on for hours-on-end. That's why I haven't posted anything in the Netflix issue threads in so long.

My official opinion on this update is: :down: :down: :down:

I understand it may be better for those who had missed recordings, due to the overlap glitch/issue, and made use of long paddings. I never do that, so I don't get to see any relief. I get the feeling that if these same folks start getting reboots, they'll find themselves just as unhappy.

I'm seeing quite a few mentions of reboots since the update, across many threads, and new forum members creating new threads, rather than finding their way here...


----------



## supasta

I have been getting audio drops on both my Roamio Pro and Mini since this update. The audio will just stop, as if it is muted. Live TV or a recording. Rewinding or skipping back a tick will correct the problem, and replaying the same section will have the audio intact.


----------



## sbiller

Hello RCN TiVo Subscribers...

Over the next 4 weeks we will be deploying a TiVo Spring Update to all deployed TiVo's, While most of the enhancements are UNDER the hood, it's does provide a foundation for some exciting items in the next few weeks

D.C. and P.A. will Roll Next week. And in this release you will see :

MultiSession VOD Support : Right now you can only have 1 VOD session per multi room deployment. Now under 2.8 you can have multiple. at least 3 VOD sessions streaming. (as long as you have enough Tuners to spare

Slightly Improved Tune times on the Mini's.

What to Watch now will provide more in-depth show details and information including channel number.

C133 Errors have been modified to be less SCARY. So if there is a TiVo Backoffice issue and it creates a C133 error it won't tell you the world is ending..

VOD and Other APPS will continue to work when C133 is happening.

Some HDMI Enhancements and how Mini's reacted when there were HDMI issues. No more Mini Reboots.

Once we get thru the 2.8 upgrade it will Tee things up nicely some very cool enhancements coming down the pipe.

Also Those of you asking about the status of the 6 Tuner (Roamio) type solution, that project is very much in the works. There will be some substancial updates around that and many other exciting items coming in the next couple months...

-Jason
--
Jason Nealis,
V.P. Engineering and Operations

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29174023-RCN-TiVo-Spring-Update-20.8


----------



## swerver

YouTube is broken for me, after this update. Netflix and on demand still work. Anyone else have this problem? Tried a reboot. YouTube logo loads but then nothing happens after that. Casting from phone does same thing. Both ways still work on my mini which got the update too.


----------



## nooneuknow

supasta said:


> I have been getting audio drops on both my Roamio Pro and Mini since this update. The audio will just stop, as if it is muted. Live TV or a recording. Rewinding or skipping back a tick will correct the problem, and replaying the same section will have the audio intact.


I have that as well. Since it happens no matter what I'm doing, I feel pretty safe in saying it isn't due to my cable signal.

If you want to (attempt to) get to the bottom of it, ask to be placed on log-monitoring for it, then use the 777-clear and 911-clear sequences to enhance what is logged, and place markers in the logs to help TiVo know where to be looking in the logs.

Either TiVoMargret, or TiVo customer support, can place your TSNs into log monitoring. TiVoMarget is more likely not to argue and drill you about it, and the chances of getting a followup/follow-through, are also better.


----------



## jwbelcher

nooneuknow said:


> I have that as well. Since it happens no matter what I'm doing, I feel pretty safe in saying it isn't due to my cable signal.


Is it present on the SPDIF as well HDMI? I can't say I've noticed anything, but I'm fairly exclusive SPDIF


----------



## aaronwt

I'm using HDMI and not noticed any audio issues in my setup. So at least for now it is fine.


----------



## andyf

aaronwt said:


> I'm using HDMI and not noticed any audio issues in my setup. So at least for now it is fine.


+1


----------



## nooneuknow

jwbelcher said:


> Is it present on the SPDIF as well HDMI? I can't say I've noticed anything, but I'm fairly exclusive SPDIF


I'm exclusively HDMI w/Dolby Digital, stright from the Roamio to the TV (Sony, Samsung, & LG). I've tried PCM, but that doesn't fix it.

If I had any other way to hook it up, I'd do so, but the base Roamio doesn't have all the additional outputs that the Plus/Pro do. I'm not feeling like buying the special breakout cable to try component w/analog.


----------



## aaronwt

Hmm. I guess I'll find out tomorrow with my Roamio Basic if I have any issues. I will be taking it over to my GFs house and it will be connected directly to her TV over HDMI. At home my ROamio Pro and Basic go through a video processor before going to my TV.


----------



## ahwman

I woke up this morning only to find some very odd things with my TiVo:

&#8226; My Roamio Pro reverted from the spring update 20.4.1 back to 20.3.8 - where it stands now
&#8226; All of my deleted programs had magically returned
&#8226; My channel lineup customizations were set back to default

I have forced several connections, however it does not see the 20.4.1 update. Is there any logical reason why this would have occurred?


----------



## ncfoster

ahwman said:


> I woke up this morning only to find some very odd things with my TiVo:
> 
>  My Roamio Pro reverted from the spring update 20.4.1 back to 20.3.8 - where it stands now
>  All of my deleted programs had magically returned
>  My channel lineup customizations were set back to default
> 
> I have forced several connections, however it does not see the 20.4.1 update. Is there any logical reason why this would have occurred?


If you scan the forums, you'll see that many people were hit by this combo. Margaret from Tivo put the number at about 200.

I think it should go back to 20.4.1, but I don't know how the other symptoms will resolve.


----------



## jwbelcher

nooneuknow said:


> I'm exclusively HDMI w/Dolby Digital, stright from the Roamio to the TV (Sony, Samsung, & LG). I've tried PCM, but that doesn't fix it.
> 
> If I had any other way to hook it up, I'd do so, but the base Roamio doesn't have all the additional outputs that the Plus/Pro do. I'm not feeling like buying the special breakout cable to try component w/analog.


I know it wont help here, but IIRC you were talking about the HDMI switches recently and having trouble finding a compatible one? I picked up an Inveo HDMI switch with SPDIF audio out (I14-42265) at TigerDirect that seems to be compatible. I originally picked up so I could get SPDIF out from my Roku, but seemed to work Ok with the TiVo (YMMV). My biggest complaint is the bright LEDs on the front. I've also wanted a HDFury but never bit the bullet. They have another product called DR HDMI that could help some of your other HDMI related issues.


----------



## stannenb

I hadn't noticed I'd gotten a software updated until, after my second random reboot while I was watching a recording while recording 2 programs. I checked, and it was new software. I've now had 3 reboots in the space of a handful of days, all while watching something and record 2-3 other things. Really annoying, especially since it hacks a small chunk out of the recordings.

I'm assuming there's nothing I can do about his, other than hope Tivo notices, finds the bug, and fixes it, yes?


----------



## ahwman

ncfoster said:


> If you scan the forums, you'll see that many people were hit by this combo. Margaret from Tivo put the number at about 200.
> 
> I think it should go back to 20.4.1, but I don't know how the other symptoms will resolve.


Thanks for the heads up, I though I had a ghost in my TiVo .


----------



## nooneuknow

jwbelcher said:


> I know it wont help here, but IIRC you were talking about the HDMI switches recently and having trouble finding a compatible one? I picked up an Inveo HDMI switch with SPDIF audio out (I14-42265) at TigerDirect that seems to be compatible. I originally picked up so I could get SPDIF out from my Roku, but seemed to work Ok with the TiVo (YMMV). My biggest complaint is the bright LEDs on the front. I've also wanted a HDFury but never bit the bullet. They have another product called DR HDMI that could help some of your other HDMI related issues.


Thanks, I'll check into it. Right now, I just give the TiVos a direct-in, and use switches for everything else. Funny thing is that everything else works with every switch I have ever bought. It tends to make the TiVo look rather guilty of being the problem child, when every TV and every other HDMI-out device in the whole house works fine, in any possible configuration, all the way to 1080p/60...


----------



## aaronwt

ahwman said:


> I woke up this morning only to find some very odd things with my TiVo:
> 
> • My Roamio Pro reverted from the spring update 20.4.1 back to 20.3.8 - where it stands now
> • All of my deleted programs had magically returned
> • My channel lineup customizations were set back to default
> 
> I have forced several connections, however it does not see the 20.4.1 update. Is there any logical reason why this would have occurred?


Make sure you send Margret an email with your TSN so the TiVo can be updated again to the SPring update. Mine was back to the correct software a few hours after emailing Margret.

This thread should have all the info you need.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516488

Here is the post that references the tweet from Margret with her email.



kbmb said:


> Can also confirm that the rollback should NOT be happening:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/454725147748884480
> 
> 
> 
> @netnothing Nothing should be rolling back. I need TSNs of boxes that appear to have been rolled back. margret at tivo dot com
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone who was rolled back should email Margret!
> 
> -Kevin
Click to expand...


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> I'm exclusively HDMI w/Dolby Digital, stright from the Roamio to the TV (Sony, Samsung, & LG). I've tried PCM, but that doesn't fix it.
> 
> If I had any other way to hook it up, I'd do so, but the base Roamio doesn't have all the additional outputs that the Plus/Pro do. I'm not feeling like buying the special breakout cable to try component w/analog.





aaronwt said:


> Hmm. I guess I'll find out tomorrow with my Roamio Basic if I have any issues. I will be taking it over to my GFs house and it will be connected directly to her TV over HDMI. At home my ROamio Pro and Basic go through a video processor before going to my TV.


We watched four episodes of Grey's Anatomy at my GFs house today from my Roamio Basic. It was sending DD over HDMI to her Vizio LCD set. We didn't run into any audio issues while watching those episodes.


----------



## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> We watched four episodes of Grey's Anatomy at my GFs house today from my Roamio Basic. It was sending DD over HDMI to her Vizio LCD set. We didn't run into any audio issues while watching those episodes.


What output(s), as in resolutions were basic set to use/allow, and how old is the TV (rough estimate of manufacture date)?

Any specifics help:

1. TiVo settings
2. HDMI cable revision level/spec, and standard-speed or high-speed rating
3. HDMI TV port, which port number, and the revision/spec of the TV HDMI-in
4. Anything that might explain why it's working

Things that work fine, even on a switch (which I don't use for TiVos):

1. 2 Roku 2 XS
2. 2 WDTV Live Hubs
3. 2 LG DVD Players
4. Sony Blu-Ray player
5. 2 Chromecasts
6. Samsung combo DVD/VCR
7. 2 Lenovo laptops w/HDMI-out

All work up to 1080p/60, most support /24 as well.

If you could willy-nilly hook all these up, even throw MonoPrice and IOGear switches in the mix, and use any HDMI cables, but 3 TiVos won't work with the switches, nor will they work well straight-in, what conclusion would you be headed towards?

One thing I've picked up on, is that regardless of setting a fixed output resolution, once I enter Hulu Plus, or Netflix, the setting is not honored (or has cut-outs in the HDMI flow, where a change would take place if native was set). This causes the switches to cut audio and sound, making a pop with each change and change back, and I have to switch the switch to another input and back again, to get it back. So, I give the TiVos straight connections in.

Direct HDMI in from the TiVo, I don't have to switch the HDMI input, but get the cut-out where the A/V is momentarily gone with a pop, then comes back with a pop.

With Live TV and recording playback, the same thing happens as in the prior paragraph, but there's no reason to suspect the resolution changes, and it's not at the points where commercials start/end, but happens while watching programming or commercials. It doesn't discriminate, or only show up on some channels.

I can watch Hulu Plus and Netflix all day long without any issues, on anything except my Roamios.

True Live TV using the TV's internal tuners does not have these issues, either.

Things weren't perfect before the update, but were better, lesser, and fewer & far between, once I set my fixed out to 1080i, as 1080p was just terrible. Now 1080i acts like when I had it set to 1080p, before the update.

I was loving Netflix on the previous software and running 1080p/24 Dexter marathons at a solid SuperHD stream (I have insanely awesome internet, with 8 downstream and 4 upstream DOCSIS 3 bonded channels, and only use wireless for the chromecasts, and sometimes a laptop). Now any amount of RW/FF action tends to cause a reboot (although I get those doing just about anything one does with a TiVo, now).

Any logical explanation for this? Why is the TiVo not playing well with anything?

It's not the cables. I'm on my fourth brand, and I've only been trying different ones to try and make the TiVo work like anything else I have.

I'm not bashing TiVo, or looking for a fight. I just want to get to the bottom of this, and be clear that things were better for me before the update.

I was not affected by any rollbacks, but cleared my RD folders, just in case I would be one of those to get hit by that.

The hard drives have been tested, both in and out of the TiVos. They are 3TB WD Red NAS, which support the same AV-function as the AV-GP drives (which TiVo doesn't even utilize).

I have also tried hooking up nothing but the TiVos, leaving everything else disconnected from the TVs.


----------



## aaronwt

My Roamio Basic is set for one output resolution. 1080P60

The HDMI cable is at least five years old. So whatever was out back then. But it has worked with the advanced audio codecs from a BD player before.

HDMI input on the TV is HDMI 3. But that shouldn't make a difference.


----------



## morac

I haven't heard any audio issues either on My Roamio Pro with the new software (or the old for that matter). My Roamio is set to 1080p and connected to an Onkyo 7.1 receiver via HDMI. The audio does go out for a sec when jumping between full screen and the HD menus, but it's done that for years and the software tries to compensate by rewinding the video slightly.


----------



## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> HDMI input on the TV is HDMI 3. But that shouldn't make a difference.


Just for future reference, the #1 HDMI input on some TVs will have an ARC, while the others don't. I've tried all ports in all situations, though.

There also used to be a lot of people advising that the #1 HDMI port somehow is better (or less likely to have issues), than the other ones. If this is truth, or superstition, I can't say. But, I seem to recall a few people changing their TiVo to go to #1 HDMI port, and got better results, or their problem went away.

Just passing that along, since you said it doesn't matter.

I didn't think I'd be losing-out on anything with a base Roamio with HDMI-out only. Now I'm a tad upset that I can't troubleshoot with alternate outputs like I used to.

One type of HDMI cable I've tried (started out with), was one of the ones that came with Premieres, and didn't do these things with a Premiere attached.

There's a thread I'd like you to take a peek at and let me know if you think what's going on there could have any relation to my problems:

"Frequent Loss of Dolby Digital"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=485254

As I've said in the past, on this issue: I politely ask that everybody who is blessed without having problems need not say so, as I try to figure this out, unless there is something that can be said that may help me in doing so.

I'll politely assume the silent ones are not having the problems I am.

Ending note: I'm not talking about the menu-to-full-screen pauses, and other such transitional blips/glitches. Yes, I have those. If that was all I had, I wouldn't even mind.


----------



## lgnad

I just noticed that the Stream built into the Roamio has apparently received a software update as part of 20.4.1? Unless it snuck out before and noone noticed? Do Roamios who didnt get 20.4.1 yet still run 19.1.4?

Stream built into the Roamio 19.1.6-USB-6 dated 2/18/14. 
Stand-alone Stream 19.1.4-01-6 dated 11/12/13. (The 1st version that allowed out of home streaming if I remember correctly) A call home/restart no change in software version.

There is no documentation of the changes in this version of the Stream software that I have seen, unfortunately.

Maybe some of they guys who are more hardcore into analyzing the Stream's performance might uncover some differences? 
Or it might be updates for upcoming android streaming support? This update supposedly prepares us for great things in the summer update...


----------



## rainwater

lgnad said:


> I just noticed that the Stream built into the Roamio has apparently received a software update as part of 20.4.1? Unless it snuck out before and noone noticed? Do Roamios who didnt get 20.4.1 yet still run 19.1.4?
> 
> Stream built into the Roamio 19.1.6-USB-6 dated 2/18/14.
> Stand-alone Stream 19.1.4-01-6 dated 11/12/13. (The 1st version that allowed out of home streaming if I remember correctly) A call home/restart no change in software version.
> 
> There is no documentation of the changes in this version of the Stream software that I have seen, unfortunately.
> 
> Maybe some of they guys who are more hardcore into analyzing the Stream's performance might uncover some differences?
> Or it might be updates for upcoming android streaming support? This update supposedly prepares us for great things in the summer update...


TiVo said they were bringing an update to the Stream to allow out-of-home streaming over mobile to iOS. Hopefully they have updated it for that and for Android streaming.


----------



## mrizzo80

The Roamio stream software update in the 20.4.1 release may just be stability improvements.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/453551096259031040


----------



## swerver

Anyone else have a broken YouTube app after this update?


----------



## monkeydust

So, I assume my reset channels I receive is not going to fix itself and I have to go in and remove all the ones I don't want to show up again?


----------



## nooneuknow

monkeydust said:


> So, I assume my reset channels I receive is not going to fix itself and I have to go in and remove all the ones I don't want to show up again?


That is a correct assumption.


----------



## innocentfreak

I had a burst of static last night so it looks like the audio bug might be back.


----------



## ejonesss

if you tivo software developers read these forums cant you just go back to your software archive and just re install the previous version when 2 tuners was still enabled.

kind of like windows has built in.

i am glad you pulled the update because who know what else could be broken if you updated.

hopefully you will fix the problem and install the update.

also we would like to see the ability to stream the live buffer using the same downloader used for the recorded.

sort of like the firewire allows on the cable co boxes then we can use our computers as the hard drive instead.



also if the box runs linux or some kind of unix then why not install the updates in modules so just replace the unix binary for copying and splicing without installing the other stuff.

it is like replacing some exe file or dll file on your pc without replacing the entire program package.


----------



## ejonesss

what was the issues that had to be resolved for pulling the update?

if it is secret then pm me with them because i would be glad to join the priority or field trial


----------



## TiVoMargret

A couple of updates:

1. We have restarted the priority list, so if your box didn't update in the first batch, it should now be authorized for the update if you requested it between April 3 and April 13. We will continue to update new priority list signups every few days. NOTE: I do NOT recommend forcing multiple connections to get the update, as it can lead to the temporary "S03" state. Try to limit your checking to once per day! 

2. We are aware of an HDMI issue with Xbox and an "audio pop" issue with some receivers. We are getting ready to test a fix. If you'd like to join the Beta program to see if that the fix works for you, please sign up at http://fieldtrials.tivo.com and send email to [email protected] with the subject "audio pop".

--Margret


----------



## sbourgeo

Thanks for the info Margret, much appreciated.


----------



## jbaum

TiVoMargret said:


> A couple of updates:
> 
> 1. We have restarted the priority list, so if your box didn't update in the first batch, it should now be authorized for the update if you requested it between April 3 and April 13. We will continue to update new priority list signups every few days. NOTE: I do NOT recommend forcing multiple connections to get the update, as it can lead to the temporary "S03" state. Try to limit your checking to once per day!
> 
> Great, i was in the 4/3-4/13 group and my premier box got it today, hopefully my roamio gets the update tomorrow.


----------



## cherry ghost

cherry ghost said:


> What about the bug that creates a manual recording when you add padding to a single episode of a show you have a Season Pass for and the padding doesn't get applied?


Really wish this had been fixed.


----------



## CoxInPHX

TiVoMargret said:


> A couple of updates:
> 
> 1. We have restarted the priority list, so if your box didn't update in the first batch, it should now be authorized for the update if you requested it between April 3 and April 13. We will continue to update new priority list signups every few days. NOTE: I do NOT recommend forcing multiple connections to get the update, as it can lead to the temporary "S03" state. Try to limit your checking to once per day!
> 
> --Margret


So is this 20.4.1a

or If you already received 20.4.1 there is no new update?

I thought there was an issue with 20.4.1 and that is why it was suspended.


----------



## andyf

cherry ghost said:


> Really wish this had been fixed.


This is fixed in 20.4.1


----------



## andyf

CoxInPHX said:


> So is this 20.4.1a
> 
> or If you already received 20.4.1 there is no new update?
> 
> I thought there was an issue with 20.4.1 and that is why it was suspended.


I read it as the rollout is just continuing, no changes. I think they paused the rollout to evaluate. They've evaluated and are now continuing the rollout.


----------



## ustavio

I got the update practically the day it was announced and wasn't on the priority list. Overall not too many issues. No reboots (PTL) and Netflix finally seems to work properly. Netflix and Tivo seem to have worked out the kinks. However, just my luck....because I've got mega uber ultra super fast Fios which means I've also now got worse than SD Netflix... unless I want to watch before five or after midnight. 

I've noticed some annoying audio and video stuttering but only during playback of some (not all) recorded shows. Have not observed this issue on anything live. I've also noticed that closed captions (also only on some recorded shows) will drop off. The ability to turn them on again also disappears from the info panel. It's literally blank. Only way to reactivate them is to back out of the recording and resume again. If captions don't resume as well, at least I can once again enable them in the info panel.


----------



## ejonesss

TiVoMargret is there a way to fix problems individually by having the box just replace individual files like you replacing an exe or dll file on your pc?

we would really like to get the overlaps fixed without other problems.


----------



## cherry ghost

andyf said:


> This is fixed in 20.4.1


It happened to me last night.


----------



## KevinG

Wait. What?

My household's TiVo experience when to complete and utter 5h!t after receiving this beta. They are continuing it without any fixes? I'm confused.


----------



## aaronwt

KevinG said:


> Wait. What?
> 
> My household's TiVo experience when to complete and utter 5h!t after receiving this beta. They are continuing it without any fixes? I'm confused.


This isn't a beta. You need to be signed up to test the tivo software to be using a beta. And if you were signed up for it then you can't talk about it.


----------



## bicker

KevinG said:


> They are continuing it without any fixes? I'm confused.


The only logical conclusion is that the bugs that people have been relaying until now in the thread have been so limited in applicability that the benefit of continuing the roll-out outweighed the inconvenience to those adversely affected by the bugs.

It would be good for TiVo to clarify this if this logical conclusion is not accurate.


----------



## lessd

bicker said:


> The only logical conclusion is that the bugs that people have been relaying until now in the thread have been so limited in applicability that the benefit of continuing the roll-out outweighed the inconvenience to those adversely affected by the bugs.
> 
> It would be good for TiVo to clarify this if this logical conclusion is not accurate.


On two of my three Roamios I got the original 20.4.1, than the updates stopped. About a week or so later, I saw that one of my Roamios that had 20.4.1 was pending restart, I though this was a roll-back, I re-started the unit and went to bed. The next day the software was still 20.4.1 but all my channels had gone back to the original setup, I had to re-set all my channels, a pain. Last night my 3rd Roamio got the first 20.4.1 update, today I looked, and no ch problems or any other problems that I could see. So I don't know if 20.4.1 had two versions without any number difference. My Mini is still on 20.4.1 from the original update.


----------



## jrtroo

There has been at least one time where tivo completed an update and followed up with a quick bug-fix. But, I seem to remember that they needed to finish the roll out and make sure that sat down with the boxes before releasing the update. (or I can be remembering this incorrectly, hmm).


----------



## gcondrey

I just got the update this morning on my Roamio Plus. I'm not sure if it's related but my iPhone and iPad app now think I'm away from my home network. I've tried to setup the apps again but it says there is a connection issue, try later or call TiVo. Mmmmm


----------



## tatergator1

gcondrey said:


> I just got the update this morning on my Roamio Plus. I'm not sure if it's related but my iPhone and iPad app now think I'm away from my home network. I've tried to setup the apps again but it says there is a connection issue, try later or call TiVo. Mmmmm


Restart the Roamio, and then repeat the streaming setup and you should be back in business. This has been fairly common. Something it 20.4.1 messes up the Roamio's networking setup. A reboot will clear it up.


----------



## gcondrey

tatergator1 said:


> Restart the Roamio, and then repeat the streaming setup and you should be back in business. This has been fairly common. Something it 20.4.1 messes up the Roamio's networking setup. A reboot will clear it up.


Thanks, I'll try that!


----------



## morac

tatergator1 said:


> Restart the Roamio, and then repeat the streaming setup and you should be back in business. This has been fairly common. Something it 20.4.1 messes up the Roamio's networking setup. A reboot will clear it up.


I had to log out of the iOS app and back to get it to work. Simply repeating streaming setup wasn't enough.


----------



## AdamNJ

I just got 20.4.1-01-6-A92 on my Mini. I was alerted to this fact due to a "cannot connect to host" message when I turned my tv on. I did a restart (through the menus) and now it is working okay so far, although I haven't done much other then live tv so far. I will check if my Roamio was updated later.

Is there a single post here (I would rather not read though this entire thread at this point) that lists all the issues people have reported so that I can see if I have the same? If so, please let me know the post # or provide a link.


----------



## jwbelcher

AdamNJ said:


> I just got 20.4.1-01-6-A92 on my Mini. I was alerted to this fact due to a "cannot connect to host" message when I turned my tv on. I did a restart (through the menus) and now it is working okay so far, although I haven't done much other then live tv so far. I will check if my Roamio was updated later.
> 
> Is there a single post here (I would rather not read though this entire thread at this point) that lists all the issues people have reported so that I can see if I have the same? If so, please let me know the post # or provide a link.


No. The rest of us had to suffer through this thread. Hope you enjoy the relentless KUID argument.


----------



## andyf

Lol


----------



## nooneuknow

TiVoMargret said:


> 2. We are aware of an HDMI issue with Xbox and an "audio pop" issue with some receivers. We are getting ready to test a fix. If you'd like to join the Beta program to see if that the fix works for you, please sign up at http://fieldtrials.tivo.com and send email to [email protected] with the subject "audio pop".


As much as I appreciate your presence, interaction, support, updates, and announcements, I feel that some recent posts of yours contain ambiguous wording and explanations such as "having operational issues", which leave us to interpret, and argue about, what they mean.

I'll pass on being on the "front lines", and running on the beta software which produces the updates I've been getting as a citizen/non-combatant... (Can't say why, in the way I'd like to share, but some things can't be talked-about publicly). I need my TiVos to work, and not be tied up doing that I feel is TiVo's job to do. Back when I had six TiVos, instead of three, I may have felt differently about signing up one or two of them. Unless TiVo is willing to provide (at TiVo's expense) the hardware for testing the software, I'll pass on unpaid work, and my entertainment becoming a job (minus time to enjoy the source of my entertainment).

I also feel that phrasing things in a way that make it sound like a 3rd-party in-line receiver is required to have the issue is either misleading, or bad-phrasing. It almost sounds like you are also saying an Xbox is required. Perhaps you would say things differently, and say more, but have been directed what you are supposed to (allowed to) say....

A TV that can receive and process Dolby Digital, and support surround with a direct HDMI connection, is still technically a "receiver". I use my TVs internal speakers as my front channels, and the outputs of the TVs to drive internally amplified rear speakers, and internally amplified subwoofers.

The way this update from you was worded, makes it sound like my own "audio pop" situation is outside of the scope you are working on/with.

The way I see it, is any TV that can process DD and surround, and has the ability to drive external speakers, should be considered as having it's own internal receiver, and this should not be left out, as I feel it has been.

Thank you for the update. Sorry I couldn't just be happy with it.

EDIT/ADD: I'm having enough "fun" just being on log monitoring and having to keep the remote in-hand at all times, repeatedly pressing 777-clear for AV issues, and 911-clear for reboots and show-stoppers. That alone keeps me from getting much entertainment, as it's a constant effort to do that, and try to pay attention to the programming I'm trying to watch.


----------



## mrizzo80

Dude.

Try to keep it pithy.

And I think you are completely over-thinking what she addressed in point 2.


----------



## mrizzo80

TiVo used to be pretty bad at intelligently displaying the yellow to-be-deleted soon shows. At one point I thought they greatly improved this. It seems like this issue is back. 

I have a 50% full Plus and a 25 episode max SP for Seinfeld. I started seeing the yellow circles 2 days ago, so I switched the SP to Keep All. 2 days later I have a ton of yellow circles with explanation points. I tried the HDUI reset code to see if that would fix it (only a reboot does). It would be nice if they could add logic to re-calculate the circles daily. If people don't have the free space indicator enabled they'd think a bunch of shows are about to get deleted when they really won't be.


----------



## nooneuknow

mrizzo80 said:


> Dude.
> Try to keep it pithy.
> And I think you are completely over-thinking what she addressed in point 2.


Could be... But, it's not limited to just this situation-report. As TiVo users, many of us know when TiVo had a problem, or know has on ongoing one. Acknowledgements are nice, and appreciated. But, when an explanation given could mean a multitude of things, which tends to lead to bickering over what it means, it's almost better off going without unspecific specifics.

I said what I have to say. Unfortunately, it will likely lead to people taking what I said in a multitude of ways, as well as a magnitude of people who vehemently disagree with one or two words I used, or my own phrasing.

It's not what I want, but that's what tends to happen. I'm not going to let that stop me from saying what I have to say.


----------



## nooneuknow

mrizzo80 said:


> TiVo used to be pretty bad at intelligently displaying the yellow to-be-deleted soon shows. At one point I thought they greatly improved this. It seems like this issue is back.
> 
> I have a 50% full Plus and a 25 episode max SP for Seinfeld. I started seeing the yellow circles 2 days ago, so I switched the SP to Keep All. 2 days later I have a ton of yellow circles with explanation points. I tried the HDUI reset code to see if that would fix it (only a reboot does). It would be nice if they could add logic to re-calculate the circles daily. If people don't have the free space indicator enabled they'd think a bunch of shows are about to get deleted when they really won't be.


Yeah... I see that come-and-go as well. It's not limited to those with upgraded drives, nor is it made worse by those who do upgrade...

A reboot will clear it up, until it comes back again. Rinse and repeat, or just live with it, knowing that if you have free space, the warnings for impending deletion date notices mean nothing.

It seems like such a simple thing for them to fix. But, I wouldn't know what it would take.


----------



## ej42137

I really wish there was some way from me to skip 20.4.1. When it hits me on all the shows I padded to catch the funny tags and "next week on"s will go back to conflicting and I'll have to manually record the losers on my backup TiVos. Even with six tuners network TV on Tuesdays has conflicts for me if I pad. (Being on the West coast the only time I have to extend recordings by more than a couple of minutes is for the Oscars so 20.4.1 won't fix anything for me other than the momentary garbage during the overlap.)

I was about to start a rant about how awful TiVo is for inflicting this problem upon me, but then I reflected on the good old days when I had four SVHS decks connected to the Z Channel and what a nightmare it was to capture my weeklies, and I reconsidered.

God bless TiVo and TiVo Margret!


----------



## goldenmonkey

I can't figure out what my TiVo SHOULD have. Someone wanna straighten it out for me?

I had to restart yesterday, as for some reason a couple channels weren't coming in. A restart fixed that. Today I noticed that my 'clock bug' in the upper right corner is gone. I swear by that feature, and I can't get it back.

I also noticed pressing 'select' brings up a mini guide on the screen, that seems new, right? But my software version is 20.3.8-USA-6-848 

Is that the 'regular old' version or the 'old old' one? What can I do to force the update, and more imporantly, what can I do to get the clock bug back?

Thanks!


----------



## nooneuknow

goldenmonkey said:


> I can't figure out what my TiVo SHOULD have. Someone wanna straighten it out for me?
> 
> I had to restart yesterday, as for some reason a couple channels weren't coming in. A restart fixed that. Today I noticed that my 'clock bug' in the upper right corner is gone. I swear by that feature, and I can't get it back.
> 
> I also noticed pressing 'select' brings up a mini guide on the screen, that seems new, right? But my software version is 20.3.8-USA-6-848
> 
> Is that the 'regular old' version or the 'old old' one? What can I do to force the update, and more imporantly, what can I do to get the clock bug back?
> 
> Thanks!


That's definitely not the current rolling version. There's nothing wrong, unless you had been upgraded to 20.4.1, and then sent back to 20.3.8.

It you did get the rollback, and it hasn't corrected with a manual TiVo Service connection, you need to contact TiVoMargret with TSN and details. [email protected]


----------



## mattack

I know I've seen this at least once before (though I don't remember if it was on my P4 or Roamio), so it's not necessarily related to the new release.

My Roamio got it yesterday, and I noticed it was pending restart, so restarted it in the middle of the night.

This morning, I realized a bunch of recordings I had deleted were BACK in now playing. Since I was pretty full, I went through and re-confirmed which ones I knew I'd watched fully & deleted.


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> I know I've seen this at least once before (though I don't remember if it was on my P4 or Roamio), so it's not necessarily related to the new release.
> 
> My Roamio got it yesterday, and I noticed it was pending restart, so restarted it in the middle of the night.
> 
> This morning, I realized a bunch of recordings I had deleted were BACK in now playing. Since I was pretty full, I went through and re-confirmed which ones I knew I'd watched fully & deleted.


Aside from it being a side-effect of the unintended "rollback", it happens if you choose to "Clear Program Information & To Do List", from the help>reboot menu. The same thing happens, with the deleted items coming back to the folders they were originally in. Also, the To Do List has to regenerate once the guide data has been downloaded, based on your season passes. Any manually set entry that was in the TDL stays gone (I don't know if this part applies with the unintentional rollback).

Outside of that, I've seen it happen w/Premieres when KS52 is used, aka "Emergency Software Reinstall". I've verified that KS52 no longer applies in the Roamios (doesn't do anything).

The RD folder isn't a place that anything gets "moved" to. It's really just a pointer/placeholder, designating items you have "deleted", while the programs stay right where they were, on the disk itself. So, it makes sense, that if the mechanism pointing the programs as being RD is lost, that the TiVo would blindly restore them (they never technically left).

I know I've seen it happen differently, in software of the past, where the RD folder items would be gone, forever, rather than returning to their respective folders. I imagine some would rather have it one way, while some would rather have it the other.

I often place things I don't care about (at the time) into RD, and then go back for them, if still there (nothing else to watch). I sometimes place HD movies I've watched there, to free up space or reduce clutter, but might not mind watching later, if they are still there. Sometimes family members dig out an episode they missed from mine, and the other way around.

As another "discussion" has proven, TiVo can't make everybody happy, all of the time. I'd guess the resurrection of RD items is by design.

I'm not sure if this is anything that helps you, or what you may have been thinking of. But, I do try to help and share.


----------



## gcondrey

One thing I've noticed since the update is every network downloaded show (such as 'The Apple Byte' or 'cNet Update') are blocky and green for the first second or two, then clear up and play Okay. No big deal, but seems to have come with the new software version.


----------



## eboydog

I have noticed one of my Premiere's that recieved the update seems to have a audio sync problem now. With this one I'm using the the Toslink for Dolby audio, it varies as sometimes it's a very large while other times, it's hardly noticeable. This only occurred after the update (oh an yes getting audio dropouts occasionally too). The audio sync seems to worse with movies compared to half or hour long TV shows, some channels are fine while others are terrible. I first thought it might be related to Dolby but I changed the Tivo to PCM and haven't seen an improvement but it difficult to tell as I only noticed it last night and haven't had time to look at it better. 

I don't see this with my others, they are using audio over hdmi if that matters....


----------



## Goldwing2001

gcondrey said:


> One thing I've noticed since the update is every network downloaded show (such as 'The Apple Byte' or 'cNet Update') are blocky and green for the first second or two, then clear up and play Okay. No big deal, but seems to have come with the new software version.


I have noticed this as well on all my recorded web shows. Something that didn't happen before the latest update.


----------



## goldenmonkey

nooneuknow said:


> That's definitely not the current rolling version. There's nothing wrong, unless you had been upgraded to 20.4.1, and then sent back to 20.3.8.
> 
> It you did get the rollback, and it hasn't corrected with a manual TiVo Service connection, you need to contact TiVoMargret with TSN and details. [email protected]


Ok thanks. I don't think I had been upgraded to 20.4.1, I just don't ever remember seeing the 'mini guide' on a select press before, and have no idea why I can't get the clock bug back.

I signed up online for the 'priority 20.4.1' we'll see if it hits, been 24 hours and hasn't yet. Not sure if I need to do anything though to push it.


----------



## tim1724

goldenmonkey said:


> Ok thanks. I don't think I had been upgraded to 20.4.1, I just don't ever remember seeing the 'mini guide' on a select press before, and have no idea why I can't get the clock bug back.


Mini Guide has been around since the Roamio was released. (And was on the Premier for quite a while before that, I believe.)


----------



## nooneuknow

goldenmonkey said:


> Ok thanks. I don't think I had been upgraded to 20.4.1, I just don't ever remember seeing the 'mini guide' on a select press before, and have no idea why I can't get the clock bug back.
> 
> I signed up online for the 'priority 20.4.1' we'll see if it hits, been 24 hours and hasn't yet. Not sure if I need to do anything though to push it.


For the restoring the clock part, do the remote presses while watching something you recorded, from your list of already recorded shows. Many of the SPS__S codes quit working while in Live TV mode when the mini-guide was introduced a long while back.

For the priority rollout, first make sure the TiVo website says your TSNs are already on it. If you are, just send [email protected] an email titled "Priority List" and politely ask her to make sure your TSNs are correctly on the list, include mention that you checked the signup page, and don't forget to include the TSNs of any you want to get it. She's swamped these days, so please keep it short, or just wait for the update to get to you.


----------



## mattack

nooneuknow said:


> As another "discussion" has proven, TiVo can't make everybody happy, all of the time. I'd guess the resurrection of RD items is by design.


Huh what?

That makes no sense. It's clearly a bug, though not reproducible I would guess (I have no way of testing).

I marked the shows as deleted.. Yes, I know there isn't really a separate folder, but from a UI point of view, there is.

I simply wanted to show a problem that I had seen once in the past that is _highly_ correlated with me forcing a reboot for it to install the new software update.


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## eboydog

I don't believe the update caused my audio sync issues, I was just on my CC support forum and there are reports of audio sync problems with others on my cable provider's "service". It just happened to at the same time as the Tivo update.


----------



## tekkie

Is there some way to go back to the previous version? This pos has completely broken my minis i get constant messages saying the romaio cannot be found since this thing has been loaded, i am sick of rebooting all of my boxes and it just happens constantly i am ready to sell all of this and go back to comcast dvrs. Everything worked fine for months prior to this install.


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> Huh what?
> 
> That makes no sense. It's clearly a bug, though not reproducible I would guess (I have no way of testing).
> 
> I marked the shows as deleted.. Yes, I know there isn't really a separate folder, but from a UI point of view, there is.
> 
> I simply wanted to show a problem that I had seen once in the past that is _highly_ correlated with me forcing a reboot for it to install the new software update.


As I said, it was a "guess". If the RD folder items were wiped, rather than resurrected, some would not be happy with that, just as some aren't happy that they have to re-delete them. TiVo winds up with unhappy people either way. Although, I feel (IMHO) the items being restored, rather than lost forever, is a better scenario. Of course, the best scenario is not having either one happen, and the RD items staying as RD items.

It's reproducible, in the manner of it will happen if you choose to "Clear Program Information & To Do List" from the reboot menu, which "& resurrect all my Recently Deleted Items back to the folders they were in" is not part of the description. I've seen at least one older (pre-Roamio) Premiere software version permanently clear the RD folder, on multiple Premieres I had, when I used that option on them. Perhaps TiVo heard about it (as in complaints), and made sure that doesn't happen anymore (just a guess). It was also reproducible by using KS 52 (Emergency Software Reinstall) on Premieres.

In any case, it's not something completely new, other than the Roamio not using the alternating partition scheme, since the active operating system software is now always on the flash. Since the "rollback" (an actual downloading of older software, unlike some may think), didn't brick the Roamios or Premieres, we have something to be thankful for.

The other recent "wrong software" snafu, courtesy of TiVo, bricked an unknown number of TiVo HDs (or corrupted them beyond repair). The issue was the databases being altered by non-US software, and TiVo either couldn't roll something to repair them, or chose to not invest the time and resources, and instead decided to replace those units with Premieres (for free), or Roamios (at steep discount).

We should be happy that the Roamios (and the Premieres) didn't suffer the same fate. At the same time, if I had been hit by any "rollbacks", I'd be worried about database corruption, even if nothing (outside of what has been discussed/disclosed) seemed to be affected. I'm sure TiVo is very busy making sure that they have a viable repair/recovery method, while also investigating how both the TiVo HD NZ software was allowed to get onto US TiVos, how old software was re-rolled to Roamios & Premieres, and trying to make sure that never happens again. This is more guessing.

Why is there so much guessing? Look at the explanations we are given when TiVo (TiVoMargret) admits TiVo had a problem/fault occur. On one hand, it's nice to see official confirmation and disclosure. OTOH, the disclosure doesn't really tell us why it happened, how it happened, or how they intend to insure it doesn't happen again. Those of us that could understand the technical speak of full disclosure, tend to want to know all we can (excluding those who could understand, but really just don't care, or just don't feel we need to know).

The TiVo backdoor that allows us to view the logs can shed some light on the user-side (only if you get in before the logs rotate-out). The real dedicated types (like me) find it better to pull the drive, fire up a forensic disk editor, and view the logs, in full, without risking them being rotated-out. I'd have done so, if I had been affected. The answers to the RD folder behaviors can be in there, as well, if you look (and can understand what the logs say).

To enter TiVo backdoor: Go into System Information, press clear-clear-enter-enter-0.

To find the logs on a PC, find the address range for the /var partition, then focus on what you find in there (I forget an easy way to narrow the range).

Perhaps the way TiVo has been moving things that used to reside on the disk, to residing in "the cloud" (TiVos mind & middlemind servers), is what spared the Premieres and Roamios from the fate of those US TiVo HDs, that got the NZ software. The TiVo HDs were more functional during an outage, or loss of internet connectivity (less reliant on real-time connection). But, they didn't survive when the wrong software was rolled to them... Again, guessing.

I do feel that most of my "guesses" and "guessing" are educated best attempts. Otherwise, I'd keep them to myself.


----------



## steve614

gcondrey said:


> One thing I've noticed since the update is every network downloaded show (such as 'The Apple Byte' or 'cNet Update') are blocky and green for the first second or two, then clear up and play Okay. No big deal, but seems to have come with the new software version.





Goldwing2001 said:


> I have noticed this as well on all my recorded web shows. Something that didn't happen before the latest update.


Interesting. I have been seeing this behavior with downloaded web shows on my Tivo HD for quite some time now.
Since it clears up in 1 or 2 seconds, I don't think much about it.


----------



## slowbiscuit

The Premieres always did this with web video playback, strange that the Roamios are doing it now.


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> As I said, it was a "guess". If the RD folder items were wiped, rather than resurrected, some would not be happy with that, just as some aren't happy that they have to re-delete them. TiVo winds up with unhappy people either way. Although, I feel (IMHO) the items being restored, rather than lost forever, is a better scenario. Of course, the best scenario is not having either one happen, and the RD items staying as RD items.


As a reminder, the D in RD stands for deleted. Items in the RD folder are effectively digital trash. There should be no expectations by the user that deleted shows will be kept around by the software for any length of time. It may stay around for minutes or month, but the user can't get annoyed with the software if the user deletes something and the TiVo software actually deletes it.

As opposed to the user deleting it and the software just arbitrarily restoring it, which can't be anything other than a bug as it is not doing what the user requested. It's better than the software arbitrarily deleting shows that the user did not actually delete, but it's still a bug. It's likely not a high priority one as clearing program info is not something most people do that often, if ever, as it's a troubleshooting step. I've never cleared program info in the 10+ years I've been using TiVo.


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## anthonymoody

Wow. So much TL;DR here.


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## goldenmonkey

tim1724 said:


> Mini Guide has been around since the Roamio was released. (And was on the Premier for quite a while before that, I believe.)


Wow, I must have never noticed then. Interesting. Thanks.



nooneuknow said:


> For the restoring the clock part, do the remote presses while watching something you recorded, from your list of already recorded shows. Many of the SPS__S codes quit working while in Live TV mode when the mini-guide was introduced a long while back.
> 
> For the priority rollout, first make sure the TiVo website says your TSNs are already on it. If you are, just send [email protected] an email titled "Priority List" and politely ask her to make sure your TSNs are correctly on the list, include mention that you checked the signup page, and don't forget to include the TSNs of any you want to get it. She's swamped these days, so please keep it short, or just wait for the update to get to you.


THANK YOU! Finally got my clock back. Didn't know it had to be done on a recorded program, not live TV. Been driving me crazy not having that clock there. I don't know how I've become so reliant on it.

Restarted the TiVo and it upgraded to the new build. :upyours


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## nooneuknow

goldenmonkey said:


> :upyours


Was this an intentional "emoticon", or just an unfortunate accident?


----------



## leiff

NEW AUTO NATIVE REZ BUG

since this new update after watching Netflix and going to live TV, resolution will not switch to native 1080i when switching to a 1080i native channel. IT will stay at 1080 P. I don't like this and hope tivo are aware of the bug and fix this. I have all resolutions selected in settings and have native resolution out set. 
Other problems with this update are blocky pixelation when starting a web show and a brief flickering and delay when playing all other shows from my show list.
I have also been thrown out of YouTube a lot frequently since update. worst of all since update my mini frequently needs to be rebooted because it fails to output the picture through component video output.


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## swerver

I've lost YouTube completely. Seems like a rather large bug. Have rebooted. Netflix still works, and YouTube on Samsung tv app works, using same network switch as TiVo.


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## gamo62

"We will begin updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with 20.4.1 "Spring Update" later today."

I am still on 20.3.8. When will I get the update?


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## eboydog

gamo62 said:


> "We will begin updating TiVo Roamio, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Mini boxes with 20.4.1 "Spring Update" later today."
> 
> I am still on 20.3.8. When will I get the update?


I believe you must enroll your TiVo's in the field test early release program. With that said however I believe they stopped due to a few issue encountered and will release a newer update later.


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## lessd

eboydog said:


> I believe you must enroll your TiVo's in the field test early release program. With that said however I believe they stopped due to a few issue encountered and will release a newer update later.


The last of my 3 Roamios got the update a few days ago, it did fixed the MoCA bridge problem when the bridged TiVo would show that the MoCA was down when it was working, now it shows the information correctly.


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## lpwcomp

eboydog said:


> I believe you must enroll your TiVo's in the field test early release program. With that said however I believe they stopped due to a few issue encountered and will release a newer update later.


I take it you missed this post.


----------



## TonyBlunt

Have the update, now cannot setup streaming on iPhone or iPad - they think I am not on the same home network although I am. Anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions?


----------



## moyekj

TonyBlunt said:


> Have the update, now cannot setup streaming on iPhone or iPad - they think I am not on the same home network although I am. Anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions?


 Reboot the TiVo.


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## morac

TonyBlunt said:


> Have the update, now cannot setup streaming on iPhone or iPad - they think I am not on the same home network although I am. Anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions?


I'd try logging out and back in from the iOS app first before you try rebooting. Rebooting didn't fix it for me, but logging out of the app and back in did fix it.


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## ejonesss

"Roamio not using the alternating partition scheme, since the active operating system software is now always on the flash. Since the "rollback" (an actual downloading of older software, unlike some may think), didn't brick the Roamios or Premieres, we have something to be thankful for."

kind of answered my suggestion.

i was going to suggest that to prevent an update just power cycle the box during install forcing a boot to the other partition and prevent the update.


----------



## nooneuknow

ejonesss said:


> "Roamio not using the alternating partition scheme, since the active operating system software is now always on the flash. Since the "rollback" (an actual downloading of older software, unlike some may think), didn't brick the Roamios or Premieres, we have something to be thankful for."
> 
> kind of answered my suggestion.
> 
> i was going to suggest that to prevent an update just power cycle the box during install forcing a boot to the other partition and prevent the update.


That's a quote from one of my posts. The update does download to the disk first. Then, once downloaded and verified non-corrupted, it gets written to the flash on the next reboot. So, as you figured out, there's no stopping an already-downloaded update from installing on the next reboot, and no stopping the TiVo from rebooting to make it install. There's no way to stop the download, without the TiVo going into the "limp-mode" it does when it can't communicate with the real-time TiVo Service connection servers. Plus, you need the scheduled connections to download guide data updates to keep the recordings getting scheduled.


----------



## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> .....So, as you figured out, there's no stopping an already-downloaded update from installing on the next reboot, and no stopping the TiVo from rebooting to make it install. .......


 You could always swap the hard drive out with a fresh one between the download to the HD and the writing to the flash.


----------



## nooneuknow

HarperVision said:


> You could always swap the hard drive out with a fresh one between the download to the HD and the writing to the flash.


Just in case somebody actually is thinking of trying that.... 

Nope, it'll still download whatever version is current for the TSN, as part of the process, and then send it to the flash anyway.


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## mattack

Also, along with the recently deleted items going back to Now Playing, the indicator of what it had already recorded seemed to be reset, as a bunch of new-ish (i.e. within 14 days or whatever) episodes that DID have guide information were recorded again (not ones that were already in Now Playing, but ones that had already been recorded when they first aired).


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## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> Just in case somebody actually is thinking of trying that....  Nope, it'll still download whatever version is current for the TSN, as part of the process, and then send it to the flash anyway.


Maybe it'll think it already downloaded it? Someone test it out!


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## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> Also, along with the recently deleted items going back to Now Playing, the indicator of what it had already recorded seemed to be reset, as a bunch of new-ish (i.e. within 14 days or whatever) episodes that DID have guide information were recorded again (not ones that were already in Now Playing, but ones that had already been recorded when they first aired).


Yes, I can confirm that would happen, as well. It's another thing that happens if you were to use the "Clear Program Information & To Do List" option. The TiVo would forget what's repeats of things you already recorded for SPs that allow repeats.

So far, the only behavior I haven't seen happen with the aforementioned menu choice, that the rollback & roll-forward issue causes, is the channel list getting hosed.


----------



## telemark

ejonesss said:


> "Roamio not using the alternating partition scheme, since the active operating system software is now always on the flash.


Has someone actually confirmed this? It's possible to use alternate partitions on flash. Lots of manufacturers use an alternating system on flash because it's safer and can prevent many types of bricking.


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## ejonesss

can someone connect a packet sniffer and sniff out what url or ip address is being used for the download and block it?

that will require you to have tivo connect through a proxy.

that will also need a man in the middle decryptor/ re encryptor if tivo uses https.

though there are no settings (afaik) to make the box connect through a proxy so you would probably need a open wrt router flashed with some linux os and set up a proxy server with an https to http to https and something that can block the url.

then if you are able to see the version checking you may be able to insert a new version number to fool them into talking to the server.

plain and simple we or at least me do not want software updates without our or my permission.


----------



## nooneuknow

telemark said:


> Has someone actually confirmed this? It's possible to use alternate partitions on flash. Lots of manufacturers use an alternating system on flash because it's safer and can prevent many types of bricking.


If you'd like to do the work to understand TiVo's way of doing things, old and new, and state your findings, clear your schedule for a month or two, and have fun. Make sure to hurry up and view the backdoor system logs before they rotate-out when the next update rolls. I had to reach out to make sure I understood the Roamio correctly, myself.

There's other threads better suited for discussing it at length, and some old posts exist from back when the product hit the shelves, from which I got some idea how to understand the new way.

TiVo did authorize the 20.4.1, and it downloaded, and installed. Some error on their end, set a limited number of those TSNs to the old (wrong) 20.3.8, which then downloaded, then installed (again). Then, the fix involved yet another download of 20.4.1, which downloaded, and installed (again). Some who happened to be paying attention, noticed all those downloads, pending reboots, then the software installation notice screen for each install.

The "rollback" wasn't just TiVo toggling which partition was active. TiVo has never done only that from their end. That's just a "hack" discovered long-ago, on older models, where a user could hook the drive up to a PC, and change the active partition. Even that wasn't always something that would just "work", since the databases could have been changed in a way that the prior software would disagree with. The whole process of downloading, validating, preparing, then flashing, then revalidating has always been the TiVo way (except the "flashing" part). I feel those affected by the "rollback" (there's a reason I keep putting it in quotes) and then being updated, again, lucked-out if the noted issues it caused are the only issues there are, and there aren't any further issues lurking in the dark to corrupt something later.

Seriously, though. I'd like for more people to actually take the time, and put in the effort, to better understand how the Roamio does things differently. If that leads to me being proven wrong in something I've said about it, so be it.


----------



## nooneuknow

Just a quick follow-up on my last post:

Contrary to what some improperly believe (I still see it being posted in some threads), KS52 (Emergency Software Reinstall) when used on models prior to a Roamio, does NOT revert back to the previous software. It uses the current software to install itself onto the alternate partition, then marks that partition active (now both have the same software, but the alternate becomes the primary).

On the Roamio, KS52 no longer works. Unless there's some new KS__ method for the equivalent on a Roamio, that backs-up what I've said about the "alternating partition scheme" no longer being a part of the Roamio's operation.

If somebody stumbles across a way to invoke a reinstall (that doesn't involve a blank drive and repeating guided setup), I'd seriously want to know about it.


----------



## bryan4980

ejonesss said:


> can someone connect a packet sniffer and sniff out what url or ip address is being used for the download and block it?
> 
> that will require you to have tivo connect through a proxy.
> 
> that will also need a man in the middle decryptor/ re encryptor if tivo uses https.
> 
> though there are no settings (afaik) to make the box connect through a proxy so you would probably need a open wrt router flashed with some linux os and set up a proxy server with an https to http to https and something that can block the url.
> 
> then if you are able to see the version checking you may be able to insert a new version number to fool them into talking to the server.
> 
> plain and simple we or at least me do not want software updates without our or my permission.


If you have your own modem it may already be able to block websites already without going the whole proxy server route (I know mine can).


----------



## generaltso

gcondrey said:


> One thing I've noticed since the update is every network downloaded show (such as 'The Apple Byte' or 'cNet Update') are blocky and green for the first second or two, then clear up and play Okay. No big deal, but seems to have come with the new software version.


They're also not in HD anymore, even though "HD" is in the title.


----------



## aaronwt

Was there another update? My Roamio Pro had a pending restart. I rebooted it a few minutes ago.


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## aaronwt

WTF?!?!

My Roamio Pro just rolled back to 20.3.8 again. This already happened once before. Why did it happen again?


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## aaronwt

I sent a tweet and an email to Margret. Hopefully she gets it straightened out. Hopefully other people don't have the same thing happen again too. Before when it happened my channels were still there ready to go. i just had to select them in my channel list again. But this time I had to perform a guided setup again. AT least I hope it's fine. It's still in the middle of it. But the test channels during the guided setup showed up. I couldn't get anything tuned in before starting the guided setup.


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## andyf

Oh No! Maybe you'd better resurrect the Rollback thread.


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## aaronwt

andyf said:


> Oh No! Maybe you'd better resurrect the Rollback thread.


I didn't see where it was. I guess I should search for it?


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## southerndoc

Has anyone had problems with tuners not releasing when used with the Mini? We have 6 Minis but only 2 have watched live TV: yesterday. Tonight my Roamio says 3 tuners are being used by other TiVo boxes.


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## boettcht

So my Tivo Premier just rebooted on its own at 8:30pm during prime time / while recording to do list shows. What happened to performing updates in wee hours of the mornings when the Tivo is most likely not in use!? I'd say this is huge user experience bug and I'm not happy about it!


----------



## L David Matheny

FWIW, my 4-tuner Roamio and my 2-tuner Premiere both updated to 20.4.1 about 6:00 this morning. I'm not on any priority list, so I guess this is the general release.


----------



## mattack

boettcht said:


> So my Tivo Premier just rebooted on its own at 8:30pm during prime time / while recording to do list shows. What happened to performing updates in wee hours of the mornings when the Tivo is most likely not in use!? I'd say this is huge user experience bug and I'm not happy about it!


Are you sure it was a reboot because of a new update?

There have been others noting sporadic reboots lately (and frequent enough that it seems reasonable that they're not all flaky hard drives). I've seen my P4 reboot once in a while.


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## ToastyZ71

I also got the update on Roamio and Mini alike this morning


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## chrispitude

swerver said:


> I've lost YouTube completely. Seems like a rather large bug. Have rebooted. Netflix still works, and YouTube on Samsung tv app works, using same network switch as TiVo.


As a data point, it's working for me under 20.4.1.


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## grey ghost

Strange, I'm still on 20.3.8 almost 2 weeks since the update was released. Tivo did a restart this morning, but I didn't get the 20.4.1 update


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## mpnret

I received the 20.4.1 update last Thursday even though I didn't sign up for it and really didn't want it. First thing I noticed is that streaming to my ipad freezes a lot more than it did on the previous software. On the good side I did notice that RS corrected and RS non-corrected in DVR diagnostics is way down from before the update. Not that it ever was a problem, just that the number was higher before for a given period of time.


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## waynomo

I received the update in the last few days. The time up used to be displayed. I don't see this anymore so can't tell when the reboot occurred.


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## lessd

waynomo said:


> I received the update in the last few days. The time up used to be displayed. I don't see this anymore so can't tell when the reboot occurred.


Or if you had a power blip, if you are using a cable card or MoCA you can tell when the re-boot happened, the up time on the MoCA Info screen or the Up time on the cable card info screen. (at least with Moto cable cards) will give you that information.


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## waynomo

lessd said:


> Or if you had a power blip, if you are using a cable card or MoCA you can tell when the re-boot happened, the up time on the MoCA Info screen or the Up time on the cable card info screen. (at least with Moto cable cards) will give you that information.


Thank you. Both say 2 days 12 hours. So looks like the update was received around 5 AM Friday. I know when I checked a few days before it was not yet on 20.4.1


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## pshivers

All my devices are updated to 20.4.1 now!

My Roamio Pro updated a few weeks ago, right after the update was announced. My Standard Roamio and the three Tivo Mini's updated sometime in the past few days.

I had not noticed the update as everything has been working normally with no apparent interruption in service, Yea! 

Don't know what to do now, Tivo software is up-to-date, Cisco CableCards have 153.1101 firmware on them and all is working as advertised! (That's a first since I put my systems together back in October 2013!!!)

Guess the next big thing will be to get all the functionality iOS has with Tivo on my Androids!


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## pshivers

My Roamio Pro just rebooted without warning as while I was watching/recording the Heat Game!
First problem I've encountered since the 20.4.1 upgrade 3 weeks ago...


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## Africanlivedit

monkeydust said:


> Or Amazon Prime.
> 
> Like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys and Santa passes us over yet another year....


Why hasn't Amazon Prime been added to TiVo yet?

Same with Vudu ... ?

These 2 applications are very much missed ... especially in the Roamio boxes.


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## waynomo

Africanlivedit said:


> Why hasn't Amazon Prime been added to TiVo yet?
> 
> Same with Vudu ... ?
> 
> These 2 applications are very much missed ... especially in the Roamio boxes.


Lots of threads about that here on TCF. I have a feeling you won't get very sympathetic replies in this thread. (Not that people don't agree with you.) So a search for those threads might get you some better answers.

Welcome to TCF.


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## hytekjosh

My Mini freezes if I try to set a recording too quickly from the guide. I've been able to reproduce it without deviation. Highlight show, press record, ok, ok. If I don't let the next screen pop up before pressing ok then ok it freezes and requires a reboot. I haven't tried it on the Roamio yet.


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## lessd

hytekjosh said:


> My Mini freezes if I try to set a recording too quickly from the guide. I've been able to reproduce it without deviation. Highlight show, press record, ok, ok. If I don't let the next screen pop up before pressing ok then ok it freezes and requires a reboot. I haven't tried it on the Roamio yet.


I assume your OK button is the same as the Select button on the TiVo remote, if so I just tried this as fast as I could and no hang ups and the program set itself to record on the Roamio Plus that the Mini is mated with. I tried this both ways, using both the record button and the select button as fast as I could and, by just using the select button. (you can do the same by using only the select button). It worked both ways, for me, without problems.


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## aaronwt

hytekjosh said:


> My Mini freezes if I try to set a recording too quickly from the guide. I've been able to reproduce it without deviation. Highlight show, press record, ok, ok. If I don't let the next screen pop up before pressing ok then ok it freezes and requires a reboot. I haven't tried it on the Roamio yet.


I just tried the same thing and my Mini kind of froze. there is no video now in the upper corner window. And I'm stuck in the guide. I can still browse through the guide but I can't exit out of it or schedule any more recordings.

But I don't really see an issue for me in the future with this. I would never, in normal use, try to schedule a recording this quickly.

I did have to pull the plug to do a hard reboot to get the Mini working normally.


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## celtic pride

one thing i've noticed since the new update is i can no longer see how much battery life my tivo remote has! I use to be able to see what percentage of battery life my remote had in the systems menu,but it no longer shows that information of my battery life,and i miss that!! thats strange , UPDATE ,I just checked both tivos and the one in the livin room now shows the battery life at 62% and the tivo in the bedroom shows unknown! I swear i couldnt see this information a couple days ago after my software update, I must be getting old !


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## andyf

celtic pride said:


> one thing i've noticed since the new update is i can no longer see how much battery life my tivo remote has! I use to be able to see what percentage of battery life my remote had in the systems menu,but it no longer shows that information of my battery life,and i miss that!! thats strange , UPDATE ,I just checked both tivos and the one in the livin room now shows the battery life at 62% and the tivo in the bedroom shows unknown! I swear i couldnt see this information a couple days ago after my software update, I must be getting old !


I use the Slide Pro on a Roamio and a Premier and both show "Unknown" for "RF Remote Battery Level".


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## sbiller

andyf said:


> I use the Slide Pro on a Roamio and a Premier and both show "Unknown" for "RF Remote Battery Level".


My Slide Pro is showing up at 100% battery level right now... just started using it on Thursday night.


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## nooneuknow

My three base Roamios spontaneously decide to tell me the battery level on my stock remotes, or not. Until the feature becomes reliable, it's easier (for me) to just pay attention to how bright the light on the remote glows, or grab my trusty multimeter...

As fast as the stock RF remotes burn through batteries, I'm suspicious of there being RF interference in the band the remotes use (in my case)...

I can switch to IR-only, and at least triple my battery life.

How's the new slide compare in this regard?


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## aaronwt

I never had any issues with the stock remote batteries or the slide pro remotes. And I am using the ENeloop batteries in all of them. I get many months out of them before they need to be recharged. Although with the rechargeable batteries I never see 100% on the battery level in the sys info screen. I think it starts around 75 or 80% when I put in a charged pair.


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## andyf

andyf said:


> I use the Slide Pro on a Roamio and a Premier and both show "Unknown" for "RF Remote Battery Level".


Given that others reported it was working I repaired both remotes to their units and the Battery Level is now reporting correctly. Thanks to all for the feedback.


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## socrplyr

aaronwt said:


> I never had any issues with the stock remote batteries or the slide pro remotes. And I am using the ENeloop batteries in all of them. I get many months out of them before they need to be recharged. Although with the rechargeable batteries I never see 100% on the battery level in the sys info screen. I think it starts around 75 or 80% when I put in a charged pair.


That is probably due to the nominal voltage of the rechargeable battery. A new Alkaline battery will provide ~1.5V while most rechargeables ~1.2V. Both drop over time as they discharge (but differently) and the voltage reading is probably what is used to compute the % remaining. I am sure it is tuned to the standard battery.


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## slowbiscuit

aaronwt said:


> I never had any issues with the stock remote batteries or the slide pro remotes. And I am using the ENeloop batteries in all of them. I get many months out of them before they need to be recharged. Although with the rechargeable batteries I never see 100% on the battery level in the sys info screen. I think it starts around 75 or 80% when I put in a charged pair.


Yep, I use low self-discharge rechargeables in my Slide and they last a long time, up to a year I think. Start out at 75% charge according to my Tivo.


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## hytekjosh

lessd said:


> I assume your OK button is the same as the Select button on the TiVo remote, if so I just tried this as fast as I could and no hang ups and the program set itself to record on the Roamio Plus that the Mini is mated with. I tried this both ways, using both the record button and the select button as fast as I could and, by just using the select button. (you can do the same by using only the select button). It worked both ways, for me, without problems.


Yes, meant select. Are you using the remote that came with the mini or a different one?



aaronwt said:


> I just tried the same thing and my Mini kind of froze. there is no video now in the upper corner window. And I'm stuck in the guide. I can still browse through the guide but I can't exit out of it or schedule any more recordings.
> 
> But I don't really see an issue for me in the future with this. I would never, in normal use, try to schedule a recording this quickly.
> 
> I did have to pull the plug to do a hard reboot to get the Mini working normally.


I record some shows back to back and when you get into the rhythm you can move quickly. Are you using the regular mini remote or one from a Roamio/slide pro?


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## aaronwt

I'm using the Slide Pro remote.


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## lessd

hytekjosh said:


> Yes, meant select. Are you using the remote that came with the mini or a different one?


Yes I am using the remote that came with the Mini, but I do have a fast MoCA connection reading over 270 at all nodes.


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## dotorg

anthonymoody said:


> My mini lost its connection to the Plus after the update. I had to do the same procedure to get it back as I did the very first time I hooked it up:
> 
> 1) remove Ethernet switch between Ethernet wall jack and mini, connecting mini directly to wall jack
> 2) restart mini, connection to Plus now successful
> 3) re-insert switch into the chain, connection holds
> 
> Not sure why but my switch interferes with the initial connection bt the mini and plus, but once connected, not subsequent connections.


I can second this. I have three Minis, two continue to work correctly, one rarely works. The two that always work go Mini->MoCa->MoCa Bridge->Ethernet->Tivo Roamio. The one that only sporadically works goes Mini->Ethernet->MoCa Bridge -> MoCa Bridge -> Ethernet -> Tivo. Worked fine before the update, not the slightest problem.

The strange thing is, the connection to the Roamio usually works until I start to play video. I'd say at least 75% of the time its not working, the Mini thinks its connected, can see the programs on the Roamio, and can see what is actively recording. But go to Live TV or start a recording, and it immediately errors out. I should also note that the network itself is fine -- Comcast VOD works, Youtube works, Netflix works. Pretty much every service works fine except *theirs*.

Two weeks of this problem has left the status of "TiVo" within our house on pretty shaky ground because the primary TV that is used is no longer working reliably. Family approval is pretty much at zero. I suppose TiVo has a bit less incentive to make sure things keep working, though, because people are going to be pretty hesitant to toss out $2k worth of gear.

I've read a bunch of threads about this damn networking problem -- is TiVo still claiming there isn't one? Have they said anything about it at all? I can ignore, at least for a while, things like the annoying HDMI audio glitch that has started cropping up, and the fact that I keep losing audio on my Roamio, because I can usually power cycle my receiver and get it back. But leaving an entire room not working because they can't get simple network software to work is inexcusable.


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## waynomo

Have you tried swapping the minis?


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## dotorg

waynomo said:


> Have you tried swapping the minis?


Yup, swapping any of them around to the rooms, the problem stays the same. The problem is definitely related to something with the network.

Now, interestingly, my Roamio is not on 20.4, its still on the previous version, only my Minis have updated. (Maybe that's a good thing, as it may have limited the impact of the issue, given that my Roamio is also connected via Ethernet.)


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## waynomo

dotorg said:


> Yup, swapping any of them around to the rooms, the problem stays the same. The problem is definitely related to something with the network.


So the problem stays with the room and not the mini?


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## dotorg

waynomo said:


> So the problem stays with the room and not the mini?


Correct. Any Mini running over Ethernet shows the problem. MoCA-connected ones don't.

Basically:
- Ethernet Mini -> Ethernet Roamio -- bad
- MoCA Mini -> Ethernet Roamio -- good
- Ethernet Mini -> MoCa Roamio -- bad
- MoCA Mini -> MoCA Roamio -- good

I've seen some suggestions that the switch might be the problem, but I'm not sure that makes much sense because you can't really run point-to-point with Ethernet, at least not effectively.


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## hytekjosh

Confirms my suspicion then...not an issue with the normal mini remote but an issue with the slide pro/rf remote. Maybe the slide pro/rf remote is just too quick.



lessd said:


> Yes I am using the remote that came with the Mini, but I do have a fast MoCA connection reading over 270 at all nodes.





aaronwt said:


> I'm using the Slide Pro remote.


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## hytekjosh

Another issue I'm facing is loss of sync with the voice and video on the mini. On the roamio it is barely noticeable but on the mini its very bad. Using Ethernet instead of MOCA makes no difference. I am going to have to poke around further to see if its the HDMI switch or the TV but methinks its the Mini.


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## leepoffaith

I have a few questions regarding this update as I have not yet received it. I activated my Tivo Roamio Plus and 2 Minis on 5/1 so that could be why. The Minis have the 20.4.1, but the plus is still on 20.3.8.

1. My Roamio is wired to ethernet for the internet connection and then bridges into MoCA for the Minis. On my network status it shows MoCA as down. Will this update fix that and/or is this supposed to show down? I figured that it should be showing "on" considering I have the two Minis. I even tried looking at it with the Minis on and off and it makes no difference. It's always "down."

2. How long will it be until I receive the update? I would really like to be able to change the standard season pass settings so I don't have to choose "new" each time.

I haven't really had any issue with the MoCA saying down, except I did have an instance last night where one of my minis just froze out of the blue and said it could not connect. I'm not sure what that was about but it is fine now.
Thanks!

~Lee


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## slowbiscuit

Yes, the update fixes the MoCA showing down in network status issue (mine showed down before update, up with statistics afterwards). I got it 2 days after I setup my new Plus last week so you might want to give it a week then contact TivoMargret here if your Plus is not getting 20.4.1.

You can speed it up a bit (maybe) by forcing a few network connections.


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## malverde

sbiller said:


> It doesn't take a software update for a new app.


We need more app support. At least open it up so we can develop the apps.


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## malverde

MHunter1 said:


> This new "Default Recording Options" feature is intended to simplify the process of setting up a new Season Pass or Wish List.


Great add! I love this feature.


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## Keen

Has anyone compiled a 'known issues' list for this update? Now that I've got it, I'd like to know what to watch out for.


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## KevinG

Keen said:


> Has anyone compiled a 'known issues' list for this update? Now that I've got it, I'd like to know what to watch out for.


More reboots. ;-)


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## nooneuknow

Anybody getting anywhere with this? I'm beginning to feel like all the 777-clear sequences I've been dutifully doing, while being on enhanced log-monitoring, isn't doing anything but wearing out my remote buttons.


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## CloudAtlas

malverde said:


> We need more app support. At least open it up so we can develop the apps.


The Opera Devices SDK v4.1 and Opera TV Emulator are available. Getting HBO, Showtime, Amazon, Vudu, ESPN etc. financially interested to support the TiVo platform is another matter. But TiVo getting to 4.5M subs is a step in the right direction.

I'm sure both Opera and TiVo have independently reached out to the above content providers about bringing their applications to the Opera/TiVo platform. Not to mention SDK users Panasonic, Sony, Samsung and Phillips.

http://www.operasoftware.com/products/devices-sdk
http://www.operasoftware.com/products/tv-emulator


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## aaronwt

Keen said:


> Has anyone compiled a 'known issues' list for this update? Now that I've got it, I'd like to know what to watch out for.


Slower transfer rates!


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> Slower transfer rates!


That what I saw just after the update, but now a few weeks later I just tested the xfer rate tonight and it was back to over 88Mb/sec from about 70Mb/sec just after the update, before the update I could get just over 90Mb/sec. I am using MoCA system.


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> That what I saw just after the update, but now a few weeks later I just tested the xfer rate tonight and it was back to over 88Mb/sec from about 70Mb/sec just after the update, before the update I could get just over 90Mb/sec. I am using MoCA system.


 With the previous software I could get 150mbps transfer rates from my Pro. I'm only seeing up to 95mbps transfer rates now from my Roamio Pro and Basic. Although my Premiere is getting 70+mbps transfer rates.

It almost seems like it's speed is limited to a 100BT connection. But I tested it several ways to make sure there are no issues. Plus I brought home a cable tester from work to make sure my Cat5e and Coax cable runs were still good.

But whether I use MoCA or GigE with my Roamio Pro I don't see the speeds I used to with the previous software version.

I'm still in a MoCA phase right now so I will continue to use MoCA with my three Minis and Pro for a while.


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> With the previous software I could get 150mbps transfer rates from my Pro. I'm only seeing up to 95mbps transfer rates now from my Roamio Pro and Basic. Although my Premiere is getting 70+mbps transfer rates.
> 
> It almost seems like it's speed is limited to a 100BT connection. But I tested it several ways to make sure there are no issues. Plus I brought home a cable tester from work to make sure my Cat5e and Coax cable runs were still good.
> 
> But whether I use MoCA or GigE with my Roamio Pro I don't see the speeds I used to with the previous software version.
> 
> I'm still in a MoCA phase right now so I will continue to use MoCA with my three Minis and Pro for a while.


I don't know how you got 150Mb/s from a Roamio Pro to a Roamio Pro, or was this from to a computer ? did you put the Roamio Pro into sleep mode ? My network is all 1000Mb/s and I never can get that type of speed, I guess your better at setting up networks than I am.
Have others gotten that type of xfer speed between two Roamio Pros ?


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> I don't know how you got 150Mb/s from a Roamio Pro to a Roamio Pro, or was this from to a computer ? did you put the Roamio Pro into sleep mode ? My network is all 1000Mb/s and I never can get that type of speed, I guess your better at setting up networks than I am.
> Have others gotten that type of xfer speed between two Roamio Pros ?


Those are speeds to/from a PC running TiVo Desktop. I never had a second Roamo PRo/Plus to test those speeds. And of course the Roamio BASic is only 100BT.

I just know with the most recent software there has been a huge difference in transfer rates for me. From a user perspective though, streaming etc, I don't see a difference. And even with the transfer rates I wouldn't normally see the difference since most of them are done automatically to my TiVo Desktop machine. But I'm not seeing anything take advantage of the Pro GigE connection. WHile with previous versions it was always obvious it was using a GigE connection.


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> Those are speeds to/from a PC running TiVo Desktop. I never had a second Roamo PRo/Plus to test those speeds. And of course the Roamio BASic is only 100BT.
> 
> I just know with the most recent software there has been a huge difference in transfer rates for me. From a user perspective though, streaming etc, I don't see a difference. And even with the transfer rates I wouldn't normally see the difference since most of them are done automatically to my TiVo Desktop machine. But I'm not seeing anything take advantage of the Pro GigE connection. WHile with previous versions it was always obvious it was using a GigE connection.


Thanks for your answer, as I don't have or need a PC connected to my TiVo system I never tried PC to Roamio Pro speed.


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## Bytez

I bought my Roamio Plus last week and it's still on 20.3.8. Is this still rolling out?


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## Bytez

Updated to 20.4.1 today.


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## bill875

YouTube is no longer working on my Roamio Plus since receiving the update. This has become a staple function in our living room. Anyone know how I can get this function back?


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## lgnad

bill875 said:


> YouTube is no longer working on my Roamio Plus since receiving the update. This has become a staple function in our living room. Anyone know how I can get this function back?


"not working" ?

In what way? Its missing? You get an error message? Videos simply wont play? Slinging videos is broken? You try and launch it and you get a busy cursor and it never comes up?

What troubleshooting have you already done? Have you forced a connection to tivo? Have you rebooted the Tivo? Have your rebooted your other networking equipment? If its missing from where it used to be, have you checked settings/channels/'video providers' to see if it got unchecked somehow?


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## bill875

lgnad said:


> "not working" ?
> 
> In what way? Its missing? You get an error message? Videos simply wont play? Slinging videos is broken? You try and launch it and you get a busy cursor and it never comes up?
> 
> What troubleshooting have you already done? Have you forced a connection to tivo? Have you rebooted the Tivo? Have your rebooted your other networking equipment? If its missing from where it used to be, have you checked settings/channels/'video providers' to see if it got unchecked somehow?


YouTube on my phone was not showing the icon to display content on my Tivo Roamio. I figured the problem out. It wasn't the software update, it was the fact I switched my router from an older Linksys WRT150N v1 running DD-WRT Firmware to a D-Link DIR-655 which was a big mistake. I switched back to the Linksys and everything is running fine. The D-Link is fine for everything else, so this just has me scratching my head. I guess the D-Link router does not support DIAL for displaying YouTube videos from my Nexus 5 to my Roamio.


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## leiff

bill875 said:


> YouTube on my phone was not showing the icon to display content on my Tivo Roamio. I figured the problem out. It wasn't the software update, it was the fact I switched my router from an older Linksys WRT150N v1 running DD-WRT Firmware to a D-Link DIR-655 which was a big mistake. I switched back to the Linksys and everything is running fine. The D-Link is fine for everything else, so this just has me scratching my head. I guess the D-Link router does not support DIAL for displaying YouTube videos from my Nexus 5 to my Roamio.


I have D-Link DIR-655 and dial youtube works. I get booted out of youtube occasionally but I think this happens to everyone?


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## skid71

leiff said:


> I have D-Link DIR-655 and dial youtube works. I get booted out of youtube occasionally but I think this happens to everyone?


+1 on this. I currently use a DIR-655 and DIAL works great. Yup, I get the YouTube boot every so often.


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