# Sons of Anarchy - "J'ai Obtenu Cette" 12/4/12



## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

"I Got This".

Pope dead, Clay and Tara in jail. Bobby resigns as VP. Disappointing IMO. We know how long people stay in jail on this show. 

Glad Tig is still around and hopefully Smits will be back.


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## rgswff2 (Feb 23, 2001)

Did the shot at the end mirror the closing shot from last season's finale just with Gemma replacing Tara?


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

No Unser, no Donal Logue (hoping he's back next year). Goggins too. 

And the bodyguard (August Marks, don't know if the character had a name), seemed to be with Pope at all times except at the end. I thought Jax had given him a heads up about what he wanted to do but maybe not.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I was wrong about Pope surviving. I would have done things differently if I ran the show but I can't say that I was disappointed with how things played out. I guess Jax has become a criminal mastermind.

How many people has Jax killed this year? Seems like a lot.

Tara, how about telling Jax that his mom said that she would set you up? Maybe when they're putting the cuffs on you.

Looks like Clay survives until next year. Since Clay is the ultimate survivor, maybe Pope's murder blows back on Jax somehow.

I don't know what upset me the most, the dog fight footage or whoever sang the opening To Sir With Love song. Was that Katey Sagal?

Could Clay's fingerprints still be on the gun after Jax shot around eight guys with it?


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I was a little disappointed in the ending. Tara is stupid.... she should have told Jax about Gemma framing her.

She also should have understood just how much Jax can't tolerate Wendy. The way I see it, Tara is responsible for what Jax did to Wendy.

I think Juice was supposed to be the one that threw Clay under the bus. But, some how Gemma saw a way out of the situation with Clay and jumped on it. I was laughing until my sides hurt over the sheriff and the dumb founded look on his face! That was too funny!

And at least the Sheriff had the decency to look ashamed to be arresting Jax's wife after Jax served up Clay on a silver platter.

I think Tara will beat it, but I think the situation between Tara, Jax and Gemma is going to be way uglier next season than it was this season. I don't think Wendy is out of the picture yet either. We'll see.

Not surprised about Bobby, he isn't a good VP for Jax. I think Tiggy is showing he's earned VP back in my opinion.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Sadara said:


> I think Tara will beat it, but I think the situation between Tara, Jax and Gemma is going to be way uglier next season than it was this season. I don't think Wendy is out of the picture yet either. We'll see.


That's what I'm afraid of. I hate this whole storyline.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

VegasVic said:


> That's what I'm afraid of. I hate this whole storyline.


Me too! But, the old ladies have their own set of drama... I guess this is their way of giving us that. Though, I don't enjoy it much!


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

rgswff2 said:


> Did the shot at the end mirror the closing shot from last season's finale just with Gemma replacing Tara?


I thought that. The pose with Tara and Jax was itself the same pose as Gemma and John Teller in the old photo when he was president.

While it looks like Clay is around until next season, I hope to heck we don't see some magical way that he survives in jail. The contract is supposedly already out on him, he's going in alone, so living for any length of time in jail would be a miracle. I guess some Feds could swoop in when he's getting out of the van and whisk him away to offer him a deal to replace Otto as the star witness in the RICO case.

As soon as Jax told Pope to go inside the building I knew something was up. I'd forgotten how much they'd highlighted Clay's gun, so I was thinking something like blowing up the warehouse, not saving Tig and letting him kill Pope. I think letting Tig kill Pope was the bit that kept him from turning on Jax for being bait.

Gemma framing Tara is still fuzzy in my mind. It sounded earlier with the meeting with her lawyer like Tara was out of the murder conspiracy charge, just the misdemeanor charge for bringing contraband to a prisoner. For Gemma to change that, wouldn't she have to testify that Tara told her the purpose for the cross was to kill the nurse? Seeing that the cross wasn't an actual dagger, Tara could have given him anything to accomplish the same purpose, it wasn't necessary to smuggle something in. Seems like a weak case, unless I'm missing something.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

How'd I forget about Otto? Man, that was nasty!


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Tara and Clay will be out by the end of episode 1.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> How'd I forget about Otto? Man, that was nasty!


I will admit, I was horrified!! I wanted to forget that happened!!


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

cheesesteak said:


> Tara, how about telling Jax that his mom said that she would set you up? Maybe when they're putting the cuffs on you.
> 
> I don't know what upset me the most, the dog fight footage or whoever sang the opening To Sir With Love song. Was that Katey Sagal?
> 
> Could Clay's fingerprints still be on the gun after Jax shot around eight guys with it?


Wouldn't put it past Gemma to tell Jax how/why Tara was taking the kids and that she was going to frame her to keep them there. Got to hand it Tara, she kept herself together when she was cuffed.

Katey sang the opening song.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sadara said:


> Not surprised about Bobby, he isn't a good VP for Jax. I think Tiggy is showing he's earned VP back in my opinion.


Except that he's insane. I don't think anybody would ever trust him to make decisions.

That does raise an interesting question, though...who will be the new VP?

During Jax's first conversation with Pope, I got the vibe that he and Pope's sidekick had something going. But clearly not...yet, anyway. I knew Pope had to die (for reasons I explained last week), and I'm glad they came up with a way that didn't involve some vast conspiracy on Jax's part that we never caught a whiff of, or Jax just getting lucky. That was a surprisingly elegant solution, all of whose pieces we saw previously. And of course in the end it won't work out as neatly as Jax planned.

Much as I'd love to see it, I don't think Clay can die. Yet. I think he needs to be part of the show's end-game. It will be interesting to see how he gets out of his double predicament (being in jail, and having Pope's people after him).

Having Tara's face morph into Gemma's at the beginning was a bit on-the-nose. I think we have all gotten the point.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

I thought this was a fantastic episode. I was on the edge of my seat for the majority of it. For some reason I thought the cartel/CIA/etc guys would be in the building where Pope was killed. It was a bit odd though that Pope's number 2 guy wasn't with him for that meet.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That does raise an interesting question, though...who will be the new VP?


Who is left? The guy playing Happy probably can't act his way out of a paper bag. They destroyed Juice's character this season. No way he gets the VP slot. Filthy Phil? He had as many lines as a black guy on the Walking Dead. Not him either. My guess would be Chibs gets promoted to VP and Tig gets Sergeant At Arms. Or Jax leaves it vacant since he's not going to listen to anybody anyway. Whatever happens, SAMCRO definitely needs new members.

I thought Bobby was a great choice for Jax's VP. A voice of reason to keep Jax from becoming what his father wouldn't want - Clay.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Idearat said:


> I'd forgotten how much they'd highlighted Clay's gun, so I was thinking something like blowing up the warehouse, not saving Tig and letting him kill Pope.


Pretty sure that's Chekhov's gun you're thinking of, not Clay's.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Kurt Sutter refers to SOA as a soap opera. I wonder why nobody has developed amnesia or has a long lost evil twin yet.


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

I seem to remember that Pope gave Jax the Charming Heights contract when then met outside the warehouse and then Jax told Pope's #2 that there were so many people at the warehouse that he didn't stop. He then mentioned the contract to Pope's #2. Am I remembering that correctly? If yes, I wonder if it will come back to bite him.

I think Donal Logue will be SOA's main antagonist next season, it seems like Sutter was setting that up in the last couple of episodes. And since Logue's character is an ex-US Marshall, will we be seeing Raylan Givens?


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Pope #2 was always right next to Pope, except at the warehouse to kill Tigs. That's why I thought he was in on it with Jax. But then it didn't appears as if he knew about it ahead of time.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Timbeau said:


> will we be seeing Raylan Givens?


that would be all kinds of awesome.

what was the very last thing Gemma whispered to Jax at the very end. Couldn't pick it up...


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Timbeau said:


> I seem to remember that Pope gave Jax the Charming Heights contract when then met outside the warehouse and then Jax told Pope's #2 that there were so many people at the warehouse that he didn't stop. He then mentioned the contract to Pope's #2. Am I remembering that correctly? If yes, I wonder if it will come back to bite him.


Pope said he sent a copy of the contract to Hale. If so, then the copy Jax wasn't supposed to have received shouldn't be an issue.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

markymark_ctown said:


> that would be all kinds of awesome.
> 
> what was the very last thing Gemma whispered to Jax at the very end. Couldn't pick it up...


'Call Lowen', the club lawyer.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ment said:


> 'Call Lowen', the club lawyer.


No, that's what Tara said as she was being taken out.

Gemma said, "I'm here, baby."


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Oh sorry..misread. You're right.


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

Pretty much glad it's over. Some entertaining and exciting moments scattered about the season but for the most part it was a prettly lame season.

Continue to either kill off (Opie, Laroy, Pope, Piney, Kip, Kozik, etc.) or severely limit(Unser, Romeo, Luis, Alvarez, etc.) anyone that is/were the most likeable and enjoyable characters, and continue to keep the most annoying(or deserving of a visit from Mr. Mayhem in Clay's case) around. Plus adding to the ranks of the nothing but annoying characters now(Jax, Bobby and Juice).

Enjoyed Nero/Smits for the most part, as well as Pope/Perrineau. 
Was also glad to see Donal Logue added to the cast too, but would rather had him in a role as a SAMCRO member. I mean it isn't like the club doesn't need some new members and Logue would be a great addition I've no doubt. Seems pretty obvious he won't be around very long in the role they cast him.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I thought it was a decent finale to an excellent season. I think the finale kind of lacked something, but I'm not sure what. I think it's "finality". It left just about everything up in their air, but I think in the overall arc in the show, it's a hugely critical season, so I'm gonna see how things play out next season. I loved this season--lots of stuff, tons of thematic elements, good twists, good acting. Once they killed Opie it did what I think it was supposed to do which is convince me that no one is safe.

If I had to change something about the finale, it would be the resolution of the Pope storyline. After 12 episodes and a ton of build-up, it was over in a few seconds. I also think it was weak that he was established as a super-human, well connected criminal mastermind, yet Jax was able to take out his bodyguards and prevent him from reaching his own gun in a matter of 10 seconds. And the fact that he had #2 with him in every single other scene except this one was just weird. I think it would have been better writing-wise if #2 was in on it...

I guess it's possible that even though they weren't "in" on it, maybe #2 saw right through Jax's set-up and knew exactly what the outcome would be (or at least that it was a possibility), and basically let it unfold. Jax's story is pretty implausible, and you can tell #2 doesn't believe it, but he's not upset about it either.

I did like the fact that he used Clay's gun to set him up. When Pope reminding him of what happens to whoever kills him and Jax says "I'm counting on it", I was wondering what the hell he was thinking--why would he provoke that? I had forgotten about Juice getting Clay's gun, etc, so I was all "ohhhhh... nice".

That's another story element that I love about this show--_so many_ different elements came into play for him to execute that set-up. Pope telling him about his bounty, Juice bonding with Clay all season so it makes sense that Clay gives him his gun, Roosevelt's wife getting killed by the nomads so that Roosevelt loses it and makes a deal with Jax and (inadvertently) telling him about Juice which gives Jax the leverage he needs to have Juice steal the gun... Gemma crashing with the kids in the car putting her outside the family and having to earn her way back in by helping Jax set-up Clay... it all reminds me of season two and all the stuff that led up to Gemma being framed for killing the irish kid which then triggered all the stuff in season three.

I don't think I've ever seen such interconnectedness on a show--everything that happens has a purpose. Love it.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Agreed, I liked how it came together. 

And if Pope had just shot Tig in the parking lot, Jax could just go to plan B. 


Bobby's character bugs me. He's turning into Piney - just an old member who perhaps at one point was useful but now just a high and mighty pain in the ass. I'm fine with him leaving. I can't remember much more than him just tagging along or getting in the way. I'm all about Chibbs for VP. 

I hope we get several episodes with Clay squirming and surviving in prison. 

Otto and his tongue -- insane. That was intense.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> Otto and his tongue -- insane. That was intense.


Yeah, the way Sutter has treated Otto over the years, I sense a bit of self-loathing...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> If I had to change something about the finale, it would be the resolution of the Pope storyline. After 12 episodes and a ton of build-up, it was over in a few seconds. I also think it was weak that he was established as a super-human, well connected criminal mastermind, yet Jax was able to take out his bodyguards and prevent him from reaching his own gun in a matter of 10 seconds. And the fact that he had #2 with him in every single other scene except this one was just weird. I think it would have been better writing-wise if #2 was in on it...
> 
> I guess it's possible that even though they weren't "in" on it, maybe #2 saw right through Jax's set-up and knew exactly what the outcome would be (or at least that it was a possibility), and basically let it unfold. Jax's story is pretty implausible, and you can tell #2 doesn't believe it, but he's not upset about it either.


Yup, that's how I see it too. But Jax is the star of the show so he gets to pull off the incredible no matter how unbelievable it is.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Good Sutter interview on this past season as well as some thoughts on next season. Some spoilers on who will be back and possible plot spoilers.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/telefile/2012/12/kurt-sutter-tongue-wags-about.php



> My pitch on the first day in the writer's room was that I wanted to find a way for Otto to bite his tongue off so I don't have to learn any more lines.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

From the interview Sutter plans on 2 more seasons with a possibility of extra episodes one on or both if he feels he needs them to complete the story.

It will be interesting to see what his next project will be.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Is the title wrong (grammatically, meaning-wise) on purpose? That title means "I received this _______" -- where "this" is being used as an adjective and not a pronoun, so there should be a noun at the end. Even if you changed it to "J'ai obtenu _ça_" it would mean "I received this" (where "this" is a pronoun) and not "I got this". I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows enough French to spot this. I'm also sure the producers have enough money to not rely on Google translate.

Sorry, I don't watch the show but was intrigue by the title. It's something that perhaps a grade school student learning French would come up with.

Sorry, I don't watch this show so I don't know all the nuances (like maybe someone's kid is taking French in school and


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

As you've supported, Motorcycle Clubs and French grammar don't mix.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

wprager said:


> Is the title wrong (grammatically, meaning-wise) on purpose? That title means "I received this _______" -- where "this" is being used as an adjective and not a pronoun, so there should be a noun at the end. Even if you changed it to "J'ai obtenu _ça_" it would mean "I received this" (where "this" is a pronoun) and not "I got this". I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows enough French to spot this. I'm also sure the producers have enough money to not rely on Google translate.
> 
> Sorry, I don't watch the show but was intrigue by the title. It's something that perhaps a grade school student learning French would come up with.
> 
> Sorry, I don't watch this show so I don't know all the nuances (like maybe someone's kid is taking French in school and


Sutter said either on Twitter or in an interview that yes, the title was wrong on purpose.
I forget the reasoning, if any, he gave though.

phox


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Plus the only person who speaks french on the show is a chronic masturbator who had all of his fingers cut off by a Chinese gang that he wronged. Then he was threatened that if he didn't quit his obsessive rhyming his replacement fingers would be sold on eBay. So he took to speaking french.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me that the title would be grammatically incorrect.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

No fingers? How does he ...


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Yup, that's how I see it too. But Jax is the star of the show so he gets to pull off the incredible no matter how unbelievable it is.


I gotta say that as much as I enjoy SOA, Jax has never been a believable character for me. His scruffy blonde hair and beard, the pants hanging down and dragging behind him, the shirtale hanging out from his "cuts", the sneakers, all make him resemble an older Calvin from the "Calvin and Hobbes" comic. I think the role was miscast.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

^

You're old. . that's how thugs dress these days.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Gary McCoy said:


> I gotta say that as much as I enjoy SOA, Jax has never been a believable character for me. His scruffy blonde hair and beard, the pants hanging down and dragging behind him, the shirtale hanging out from his "cuts", the sneakers, all make him resemble an older Calvin from the "Calvin and Hobbes" comic. I think the role was miscast.


I'm never going to be able to look at Calvin or Jax the same way again.

Apologies to Waterson in advance, but someone should take the strips of Calvin massacring snowmen and replace the text with Jax's lines from SOA.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Sutter:



> Charlie (Hunnam) and I both did a lot of research hanging out with these guys in Oakland, there's a new wave of bikers, the prospects are influenced by the hip-hop culture. Guys that really want to be bikers are the guys that feel like they need to wear the uniform. Most of the guys I know, 40-odd-year full-patch members, these guys are on motorcycles all the time, they ride for comfort, that's why their bikes aren't all tricked out, they wear sneakers because they're comfortable, they don't have anything to prove. Especially if you have a death's head on your back, nobody's going to say "Why are you wearing sneakers?" But it's definitely influenced by these kids who are influenced by the hip hop culture, and one of the guys Charlie modeled his character after, who has since been gunned down and killed, was a guy who wore these clean white sneakers


Hunnam:


> "There was a kid I met in this club who was exactly who I was hired to play. He was the son of a man in the motorcycle club, he'd grown up in the club, every one of his birthday parties had been thrown in the clubhouse. I wear exactly the shoes he wore, the jeans he wore. He had a very powerful impact on me. He was an amazing guy." And he was shot dead before Sons started production, hence the bullet necklace [Hunnam wears]. "I wear it for him -to remember the flavor he taught me."


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

I wonder if San Jose is taking fashion tips from Oakland. In my middle class San Jose neighborhood, 5-10 year old boys are dressing this way while riding Big Wheels and BMX bikes, both with elevated "chopper" handlebars. I would hope that none are watching SOA, but not bet on it - I don't know anyone actually using the "V-chip" on their HDTV.

I suppose each decade has it's own affectations. When my kid was in High School, many of her classmates were getting black imitation prison tattoos.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Any significance to the note Gemma left that said the birds should be named Carl and Carla?


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

wprager said:


> No fingers? How does he ...


That's WHY his fingers were cut off!!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Any significance to the note Gemma left that said the birds should be named Carl and Carla?


Carla was Nero's sister.


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## quietfly (Sep 3, 2003)

wprager said:


> No fingers? How does he ...


He doesn't any more... they were cut off as a punishment for it.....


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

quietfly said:


> He doesn't any more... they were cut off as a punishment for it.....


Tig offered to do it for him once, as a reward for doing something good.


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## quietfly (Sep 3, 2003)

Idearat said:


> Tig offered to do it for him once, as a reward for doing something good.


Yes i remember that.

Tig has also done some f'd up stuff.

he likes trannys, and dead people too....


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i hope the mystery of the #2 missing at the warehouse is explained next season. also that the sheriff went up on a hill near a vent to find a gun seemed a bit bizarre but i guess maybe they didnt show the 1/2 hour he faked searching for it?

regardless of tig finally getting revenge he is very correct when he said he was lucky he didnt get popped outside right away. they do have silencers you know. i dont know if i could trust someone that put me that close to death 

i am very disappointed clay is alive, nero could easily plop down as the new clay and he would be more fun to watch. 

i'm confused as to why otto cannot otherwise communicate and the tongue thing shouldnt be the end of the case. we have mute people communicating all the time in this world. but i guess he cant use a pen because it would be an instrument of death. 

out of the entire season the dog scenes were the most horrific things ive seen on tv... i hate when they show #### like that. like dutch and the cat in the shield. it's really disturbing and id rather see a human burned in a pit than what they did to those animals.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

newsposter said:


> i'm confused as to why otto cannot otherwise communicate and the tongue thing shouldnt be the end of the case. we have mute people communicating all the time in this world. but i guess he cant use a pen because it would be an instrument of death.


It was Otto's way of saying "no comment". If he'd just said that out loud chances are people would still be grilling him. His way expressed his seriousness, leaving it unlikely anyone would ask him any more questions.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

It also drove home that any previous testimony he said had no weight, since he's clearly bats$it crazy.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Hopefully we are done with Otto. The tongue thing was ridiculous. I doubt it would slither down the two way mirror.

I was hoping Pope would stick around and Clay would be gone.

I wonder if Clay takes a back seat or is killed in prison early and Donal Logue's character is the main bad guy next year. That'll work.


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## quietfly (Sep 3, 2003)

From the interview, Sutter says Clays character will have to end soon, my guess is a 3million dollar bounty is a good way for that to happen


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

With 2 seasons left I guess Sutter won't mind killing anyone off (assuming Jax is there till the end though). I do think Clay will go at some point during next season. Hopefully Tara too


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