# I need to know when Series 3 is comming out



## faspina (Nov 4, 2003)

Ok those in the tivo know please hear me out. 

I have just bought a HD capable TV with the assumption that I will move to a the series 3 hd capable box. I already have two tivo's. One upstairs and one downstairs wired, not wireless. I have 4 kids so having a tivo in two different places, networked make things much better on me. 

I am willing to wait on series 3, but for me to get it I have to do some serious convincing the wife that it is a good thing and that we need to watch TV in HD in order to get the most out of life. 

Part of that bargin would include GIVING one of the tivo to her parents or her sister, with the assumption that they would pay for the monthly fee. The only reason her dad has not gotten one is because he doesn't understand it, I could bring a box to their house, hooking it up would convince him he needs to pay $13 a month. I will do this for you if you help me out. 

So I am BEGGING please, for the love, tell me when this thing is coming out so I can begin prepping my wife for the purchase. If I do it too soon, then I have to start all over again. If I wait too late, then it might be into football season before I get to watch my beloved Auburn Tigers in HD. 

ALso or instead, I will be happy to beta test thing thing for you. I have two wired network TiVo I can hook it up to the ethernet cable, I can run HME apps from my 
mulitple pc, do tivotogo and tivogoback. I have have a wirless usb stashed somewhere. 

Surely you understand the wife factor and can give show me a little tivo love. 

Thanks
Frank


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

We would all like to know when the S3 is going to come out. My suggestion would be to rent a HD-DVR from your cable provider until you can get your hands on a S3. Let your wife (who's been using TiVo) try to use the really lame HD-DVR from the cable provider and get fed up with it and demand you replace it with a S3. That's what I did .


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

We've been told several times "second half of 2006," but nothing more specific.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

faspina said:


> So I am BEGGING please, ...


I somehow don't think that's going to do it  nice try though


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## mike300 (Apr 20, 2006)

How about you just get a cablecard for now to use in your new HDTV? You're going to need one anyway when the Series 3 comes out. This way at least you can enjoy your TV in the mean time.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

mike300 said:


> How about you just get a cablecard for now to use in your new HDTV? You're going to need one anyway when the Series 3 comes out. This way at least you can enjoy your TV in the mean time.


You're assuming that their HDTV is cablecard "ready".


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Second half.

Pony


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## MoneyMINTR (Oct 8, 2000)

so, that means. December 31, 2006?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

No, Pony said, and I quote, "second half". He did NOT say second half of what! Could be the century for all we know - so it could theoretically be not until 2051!


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Guindalf said:


> No, Pony said, and I quote, "second half". He did NOT say second half of what! Could be the century for all we know - so it could theoretically be not until 2051!


Or, maybe not until 12-31-2099.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

come on guys - put it together

the Series 3 will come out during the second half of the Auburn football game.



PS - it is my wife who drove the purchase of TiVo DVRs after I just went ahead and bought the first one. Teh first one is even named after her now as it is in the bedroom and records all the shows she wants recorded.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Also, in my case, our first TiVo is now my wife's, and I have the second TiVo.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

SleepyBob said:


> We've been told several times "second half of 2006," but nothing more specific.


All things considered, that's fairly specific and I can live with it. The bigger question is which will be available first: Comcast Moto TiVo or TiVo S3?


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Guindalf said:


> No, Pony said, and I quote, "second half". He did NOT say second half of what! Could be the century for all we know - so it could theoretically be not until 2051!


Second Half 2006, last six months of this calendar year, sometime between the beginning of July and the end of December...

Second Half.

Pony


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## cap (Jan 27, 2001)

TiVoPony said:


> Second Half 2006, last six months of this calendar year, sometime between the beginning of July and the end of December...
> 
> Second Half.
> 
> Pony


So we "could" be only 2 months away....


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

cap said:


> So we "could" be only 2 months away....


Good point. Time to start prepping the wives!


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

TiVoPony said:


> Second Half.
> 
> Pony


You are being just a bit too cute with this "second half" thing. What aren't you saying?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

davezatz said:


> All things considered, that's fairly specific and I can live with it. The bigger question is which will be available first: Comcast Moto TiVo or TiVo S3?


If there's any hope, the Series 3 release better be first by at least a couple months.

You aren't going to get many of the Comcast subs that would otherwise pay for a Series 3 if the order is reversed.

However, I'm guessing that Comcast has more to say about the timing of the ComcasTivo software than Tivo does.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

cap said:


> So we "could" be only 2 months away....


He would have said third quarter... 

If I had to guess (and boy do I love to speculate) I'd say it'll show up no sooner than September but before December. That covers much of the fall TV season (new shows, sporting events) and allows people to buy themselves gifts before the holiday season. Sept/Oct timeframe as a goal could also be why they've hedged their statements saying second half - they're not sure which quarter they'll be ready by. They probably don't even know the specific release date at this point (though I'm sure they have a target)... probably all sorts of hardware manufacturing, software development/testing, and distribution stuff to be finalized.



jfh3 said:


> If there's any hope, the Series 3 release better be first by at least a couple months. You aren't going to get many of the Comcast subs that would otherwise pay for a Series 3 if the order is reversed.


 All along it's sounded like the Comcast Moto TiVo would arrive at the end of the year, so if my theory is right and there's no big snags the S3 should have some lead time. I assume it will also have some features/functionality the Moto won't to encourage people to pay up.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Who needs time to prep the wife. I prefer to drop the ultimatum on her now and then. I'm buying this whether you like it or not and if you don't like it, then theres the door.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

timckelley said:


> Good point. Time to start prepping the wives!


"Prepping the wives?" WTF? I'm going to be like, "Woman, I gots me a new TiVo, and I'm a gonna hook it up. Now git in the kitchen and make me some pie."


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> Second Half 2006, last six months of this calendar year, sometime between the beginning of July and the end of December...
> 
> Second Half.
> 
> Pony


How about sponsoring a "name the announce and release dates" contest with a lifetimed-Series 3 as a prize?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> You are being just a bit too cute with this "second half" thing. What aren't you saying?


he isn't saying the exact date.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> "Prepping the wives?" WTF? I'm going to be like, "Woman, I gots me a new TiVo, and I'm a gonna hook it up. Now git in the kitchen and make me some pie."


I'm going to take a wild guess here - is "Divorce Court" on your Season Pass list?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, there's a fine art to prepping a wife in such a way that she doesn't start throwing out the 'D' word.


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## SystemJinx (Aug 13, 2005)

I really want an S3 Tivo, but I'd rather wait for them to get the bugs worked out first. I'd hate to spend a lot of money on a machine that keeps locking up or rebooting.

Let's give Tivo some time to get it right folks.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

timckelley said:


> Yes, there's a fine art to prepping a wife in such a way that she doesn't start throwing out the 'D' word.


If only it were that easy. Then I could finally be alone with my HT gear.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

SystemJinx said:


> I really want an S3 Tivo, but I'd rather wait for them to get the bugs worked out first. I'd hate to spend a lot of money on a machine that keeps locking up or rebooting.
> 
> Let's give Tivo some time to get it right folks.


Yeah, I'm really getting stressed out about all of these reports of Series 3 boxes locking up and rebooting.


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## Tivo Basic Mike (Jan 26, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> "Prepping the wives?" WTF? I'm going to be like, "Woman, I gots me a new TiVo, and I'm a gonna hook it up. Now git in the kitchen and make me some pie."


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The terms of the Idol Speculation contest say that the grand prize, a Series 3, will be awarded "within 4 months" of the end of the contest. The contest ends the last week of May, so they should be available no later then September. However the terms do have wording which exempts them if there should be some unforseen delay.

Dan


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

ChuckyBox said:


> If only it were that easy. Then I could finally be alone with my HT gear.


Don't you mean your ex-wife would be alone with your HT gear.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The terms of the Idol Speculation contest say that the grand prize, a Series 3, will be awarded "within 4 months" of the end of the contest. The contest ends the last week of May, so they should be available no later then September. However the terms do have wording which exempts them if there should be some unforseen delay.


And they could deliver the box before it's avalable for sale... I'm sure there are units out there now that Bob and Jerry are enjoying, why not the contest winner too.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> The terms of the Idol Speculation contest say that the grand prize, a Series 3, will be awarded "within 4 months" of the end of the contest. The contest ends the last week of May, so they should be available no later then September. However the terms do have wording which exempts them if there should be some unforseen delay.


August/September would make the most sense for maximizing sales: just as the initial feeding frenzy is dying down, they roll right into the holidays with all the hype still fresh in people's minds.

But the implied glee with with Pony keeps posting "Second half" makes me think it might be sooner.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

bigpuma said:


> Don't you mean your ex-wife would be alone with your HT gear.


More likely the lawyers would split it between them.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> More likely the lawyers would split it between *them*.


How many wives do you have and what's the weather like in Utah?


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## angelp (Jan 14, 2006)

Glad I don't have those troubles. I just buy it and tell my husband to help me hook it up!


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The terms of the Idol Speculation contest say that the grand prize, a Series 3, will be awarded "within 4 months" of the end of the contest. The contest ends the last week of May, so they should be available no later then September. However the terms do have wording which exempts them if there should be some unforseen delay.
> 
> Dan


The terms of the contest actually say:

"(The winner will receive) the Grand Prize by mail within four (4) months of the end of the Sweepstakes Period (exact timing subject to change based on the availability of Grand Prize, which is scheduled to be released for public sale in the second half of 2006)."

Leeway. Second Half.

Pony


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> But the implied glee with with Pony keeps posting "Second half" makes me think it might be sooner.


No implied glee intended! 

It's consistency. If I say it any other way...in any other form...I risk starting the telephone line game. People tend to hear what they want to hear, repeat it to their friends, who hear what they want to hear...lather rinse repeat. Before you know it the blogs are reporting that "TiVoPony said the Series3 is..." .

See, I can't even complete that sentence, even as a joke. It'll be picked up somewhere and reported as fact! 

Second Half.

Pony


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Pony, can you tell us if it will be released on a day that ends with a "y"?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVoPony said:


> "(The winner will receive) the Grand Prize by mail within four (4) months of the end of the Sweepstakes Period (exact timing subject to change based on the availability of Grand Prize, which is scheduled to be released for public sale in the second half of 2006)."
> 
> Leeway. Second Half.


That's why I said...



> However the terms do have wording which exempts them if there should be some unforseen delay.


I couldn't remember the exact wording and I was too lazy to look it up. 

In any case the fact that the wording specifies that the winner will receive it within 4 months indicates to me that you guys are at least shooting for a August/September release. Whether or not hat actually happens is of course up in the air. In fact I know from experience that sh*t can happen. I've been around since the early days before 2.0 was released. 

Dan


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

TiVoPony said:


> No implied glee intended!
> 
> It's consistency. If I say it any other way...in any other form...I risk starting the telephone line game. People tend to hear what they want to hear, repeat it to their friends, who hear what they want to hear...lather rinse repeat. Before you know it the blogs are reporting that "TiVoPony said the Series3 is..." .
> 
> ...


Just like in the video where Pony says second half of 2006 and then it is repeated by someone as mid 2006 and then Pony got confused himself and then said mid 2006 and quickly corrected himself.

My guess is TiVo has a fairly firm date on when they want to release the S3. Problem is if that date is said and then somehting comes up which haults/slows production then you will have a lot of people upset. Also if you know the date it doesn't build much hype. Look at the DT S2's. Press release 5 days before release date and the one thread is I believe 10 pages long now. We will not know about the S3 release date until about a week before, that is my predition at least.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Einselen said:


> Just like in the video where Pony says second half of 2006 and then it is repeated by someone as mid 2006 and then Pony got confused himself and then said mid 2006 and quickly corrected himself.
> 
> My guess is TiVo has a fairly firm date on when they want to release the S3. Problem is if that date is said and then somehting comes up which haults/slows production then you will have a lot of people upset. Also if you know the date it doesn't build much hype. Look at the DT S2's. Press release 5 days before release date and the one thread is I believe 10 pages long now. We will not know about the S3 release date until about a week before, that is my predition at least.


The other thing to remember is that Tivo didn't have the Cablelabs certification for the S3 when the CES comments were made. And if Tivo didn't have the potential release dates already figured out by then, there's no way they would've allowed Pony to even say "second half 2006".


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

I just want the damn box. My stereo cabinet is full and this thing will replace four of the boxes in it, not to mention the whole HD DVR 5.1 thing that I currently lack.



TiVoPony said:


> Second Half.
> 
> Pony


Quit it.

Maybe I'll come get yours. Where do you live?


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> How many wives do you have and what's the weather like in Utah?


I've got two wives, and it's bigamy to admit it. Buh-dum! Thanks folks, you've been a great audience. Don't forget to tip your waitress.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Then that's it then. We will hold them to their word re: at or earlier than September.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> I just want the damn box. My stereo cabinet is full and this thing will replace four of the boxes in it...


What will it replace?

2 existing standalone Tivos and two cable DVRs? or two cable boxes??


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

I hear about the Series 3 all the time, but since I've always had a Directivo, I've never paid much attention to the stand alone boxes. That may change and a search of Series 3 brings up hundreds of threads.

So, what are the details on this box that makes everyone so anxious? Where can I go to read about it?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> I hear about the Series 3 all the time, but since I've always had a Directivo, I've never paid much attention to the stand alone boxes. That may change and a search of Series 3 brings up hundreds of threads.
> 
> So, what are the details on this box that makes everyone so anxious? Where can I go to read about it?


Major details

High def TiVo for cable TV users. Can do analog, ATSC, QAM. Has two CableCard slots. . Record two things at once. Built in Ethernet Built in external SATA connection (to allow you to add more storage externally). Nifty display on the front of it tells you what's being recorded. New version of the peanut remote. (IMHO, they got this one right. vastly better than the previous one)


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## bostlaw (May 16, 2005)

My ex-wife says that she'll buy me two new S3s if I take the kids back....


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Built in Ethernet


What all will this allow?

- programming from any computer?
- distribution of shows to another unit?
- transferring shows to a laptop?
- what else?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> What all will this allow?
> 
> - programming from any computer?
> - distribution of shows to another unit?
> ...


It's should have all the HMO stuff. That gives you remote scheduling and distribution to other TiVos. (it should, IIRC, although you obviously can't view a HD program on a Series 2 TiVo) Plus, all the other HMO stuff (viewing photos on the TV, streaming music from a computer, etc.). All the stuff SA Series 2 TiVo users get, but have been unavailable on DirecTV. AS far as TiVoToGo? I think that too, but I may be mistaken. Maybe content owners have some sort of issue with that since it can record a digital source now? I dunno. Someone will clear it up.

It has HDMI out and also SP/DIF for audio.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Thanks.

I'm ignorant about all the HMO stuff since it was never available on D*, but I'm contemplating a move to FiOS, so it's time to start researching it.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

TiVoPony said:


> Second Half.


With my luck, that will mean 1st July. That's the day I fily out of the country for a month.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

mattack said:


> What will it replace?
> 
> 2 existing standalone Tivos and two cable DVRs? or two cable boxes??


2 existing standalone TiVos, one cable box, one HD OTA tuner.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

ChuckyBox said:


> 2 existing standalone TiVos, one cable box, one HD OTA tuner.


I think this is where S3 will really take hold in the HDTV homes. Many cable systems don't offer all of the local digital signals and we are left to watch shows live with an ATSC tuner. Cable _could have_ added ATSC OTA tuners to their cable boxes to make the masses happy and provide all the locals the same way sat companies do, but they missed the boat. I'm looking forward to being able to tie in my roof top antenna and pull in some better quality HDTV from Dayton and actually RECORD it! I'm also looking forward to joining the HMO age of TiVo .


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The advantage of the actual Ethernet port is that you don't have to fuss with USB Ethernet adapters if you have wired Ethernet available.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm ignorant about all the HMO stuff since it was never available on D*, but I'm contemplating a move to FiOS, so it's time to start researching it.


I'm not super familair with all of it either, as I have a Series 1 TiVo.

But lots of DirecTV peoeple are excited about this, as it's a way to record HiDef AND get the HMO features. Many are considering dumping DirecTV and shifting to cable

Not sure how/if it will work with FIOS. I guess if FIOS can do CableCard and appear as normal cable TV, it will work. But I'm not sure if that's the case.


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## amjustice (Mar 9, 2006)

TiVoPony said:


> No implied glee intended!
> 
> It's consistency. If I say it any other way...in any other form...I risk starting the telephone line game. People tend to hear what they want to hear, repeat it to their friends, who hear what they want to hear...lather rinse repeat. Before you know it the blogs are reporting that "TiVoPony said the Series3 is..." .
> 
> ...


Pony Pony Pony, How you torture us!!! I hope its in the first half of the second half of the year because I am tired to waiting!!!


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> "Prepping the wives?" WTF? I'm going to be like, "Woman, I gots me a new TiVo, and I'm a gonna hook it up. Now git in the kitchen and make me some pie."


[HOMER]Mmmmm! Pie.....[/HOMER]


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## jmace57 (Nov 30, 2002)

Just get Oprah to show one off on her "Favorite Things" show, and you won't HAVE to talk wifey in to it.


Jim


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

timckelley said:


> Good point. Time to start prepping the wives!


Point in fact, it could just as easely be 'prepping the husband!' Everytime I suggest buying a new Tivo, I hear "NO" but within 3 months he's attempted to co-opt the new unit.

He's doing some work for a local A/V store, the way I figure it if he'll take a HD wide screen in trade for his work, I'll get the S3 and we'll call both of them 'ours'.


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## jmr50 (Dec 27, 2003)

If TivoPony is the sort of Product Manager he appears to be, one has to imagine he's spending his time in equal portions feeding the rampaging horde which wants to have something to market, the horde which threatens to slip the date if they get 5 minutes alone with the project plan, and the bean counters chewing their fingernails to a nub waiting to see if they can meet their financial numbers for this new product. Add to the mi what he's doing here: stirring the early adopter pot. If a little stirring gets that first 10,000 units sold on day one, then all glory to the Pony. That said, you've got to bet nobody on this forum wants to see us with these in our hot little hands more than him... but this product is a life or death one for his company, and it's got to be right. 

Or, at least right for the 99% of people who buy it. I'm sure we'll tear it to shreads regardless, before we fall in love and turn over our wallets.

In the second half.


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## cdp1276 (Mar 25, 2003)

cap said:


> So we "could" be only 2 months away....


I honestly believe that if we were that close to a date they would publish it. With how firm they keep saying "Second Half 2006" leads me to believe they need that time to work out whatever remaining issues they have. Not to mention have it enter the market at the right peak point for maximum sales. They just released the Series 2 dual tuner, so they likely want at least 6 months of that to generate the most sales then move the series 3 to market. As much as I've been waiting for the Series 3 for years now and can't wait to dump my TWC SA-8300HD box that is littered with problems, I'm planning for October or November I suspect before it is out to the market. Remember TiVo's track record for meeting dates, that's why they are making sure they have a solid 6 month window this time.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

cdp1276 said:


> I honestly believe that if we were that close to a date they would publish it.


Have you done much engineering management?

They may very well have a schedule which calls for shipping on July 1st, and they may currently be on schedule. However if one bad bug crops up, which must be fixed before release, it could set the schedule back weeks, or even months. Expecting to ship on July 1st and giving yourself the possibility of slipping until December 31st would mean you could ship a quality product and no one is dissapointed that you've slipped the promised date.

I know we have schdules which regularly slip, but one ever knows about it as we only announce a product once its ready to actually ship.


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## Lukej (Apr 28, 2006)

I also tend to think Series 3 will be delayed--maybe Labor day, maybe even the holiday season. They need to generate some profits for the dual tuner, and other than the extreme early adopters, I imagine many people will be waiting for the series 3 to come out, check price and abilities, and make a final decision on whether series 3 is worth it or DT series 2 would be a more appropriate upgrade


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

I think the S3 release isn't effected too much by the S2 DT. Clearly the S2 DT and S3 are for different consumers and that is why the S2 DT did come out. S2 DT (S2 DT is so hard to type for me) benefits those who don't have digital cable right now the most. Sure it is nice if you have digital cable, but limits you some. S3 main draw is recording HD. Those with plain old analog will not buy a S2 DT, see the release of a S3, be upset and cursing themselves because they did not know the S3 was about to come out.

As far as the announcement for the release date (all my prediction) for the S3 the offical word will not come from TiVo until a week or maybe little bit more before the date. Something may "slip" when TiVo knows for sure this is the date they are going with but again TiVo does not want to say July 1st then have something happen that delays the release and have all us here on the boards, as well as elsewhere, questioning where the S3 box is.


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## Lukej (Apr 28, 2006)

Einselen said:


> I think the S3 release isn't effected too much by the S2 DT. Clearly the S2 DT and S3 are for different consumers and that is why the S2 DT did come out. S2 DT (S2 DT is so hard to type for me) benefits those who don't have digital cable right now the most. Sure it is nice if you have digital cable, but limits you some. S3 main draw is recording HD. Those with plain old analog will not buy a S2 DT, see the release of a S3, be upset and cursing themselves because they did not know the S3 was about to come out.


Well, I have digital cable, but I just am very suspicious of how willing to help a smooth transition to TIVO+cablecard from digital cable box the cable companies would be. This is the same industry that once upon a time considered it ethical to charge you by outlet in every single room.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

TiVo has a long history of NOT preannouncing such things, and it is in their best interest to not give a narrower date range unless the product is going to be available within days (and hence is already off the production line.) Pony is doing his job and doing it well.

History also suggests that the first inkling we'll have is when some retailer (cough..Amazon..cough) slips up and posts details on their web site. When that happens, I'd expect the actual release within a month or so.


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## John Slider (Apr 16, 2006)

Why wait for the Series3, when you can get the standalone S2 DT Tivo? I mean, are there a lot of new features for this epic 'S3 DT' I keep hearing about? Everyone says, wait for S3, but I think S2 looks just as nice... I'm no Bill Gates though, all this tech stuff is lost on me, except for the stuff the various members on this bored have been very patiently explaining to me over the past week or so(which I greatly, whole-heartedly appreciate).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

John Slider said:


> Why wait for the Series3, when you can get the standalone S2 DT Tivo? I mean, are there a lot of new features for this epic 'S3 DT' I keep hearing about? Everyone says, wait for S3, but I think S2 looks just as nice...


For one, it does HD. That's the main thing. Plus, it will eliminate the need for a cable box, so you can record ANY two cable channels at any time. That's another feature that can be a pretty big deal.


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## John Slider (Apr 16, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> For one, it does HD. That's the main thing. Plus, it will eliminate the need for a cable box, so you can record ANY two cable channels at any time. That's another feature that can be a pretty big deal.


Well, I don't have an HD television(kind of living in the technological stone age here), and don't really mind keeping my cable box, I'm just as well getting the S2 DT, I think that's what I'll do.

Thanks jsmeeker.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

John Slider said:


> Well, I don't have an HD television(kind of living in the technological stone age here), and don't really mind keeping my cable box, I'm just as well getting the S2 DT, I think that's what I'll do.


The S2 DT sounds just perfect for you, but those 2 features are the absolute deal breakers for me. Those 2 features are why I continue to use an HR10-250 which D* (very annoyingly) haven't upgraded in 2 years, and is still running stone age software (3.1.5), complete with annoying (and fatal) bugs.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I don't need to know when it's coming out, but seeing as how we're on the brink of the 2nd half of 2006, I'd like to know the unit and service price associated with it and whether I can use multi-unit discount pricing with it.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

bidger said:


> ... but seeing as how we're on the brink of the 2nd half of 2006.


You have a strange definition of "on the brink" - we're 60+ days away from July 1st, which would be the first day of the second half.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

It has become apparent to me that the most logical release would take place around late August - Early September. Here's why:

1) Released "just in time" for the new fall seasons, people will want to Tivo their shows in HD. If it's too late (October), people won't want to bother with changing their setup "in the middle of the season."
2) We all anticipate a sell-out of the product. This time frame gives them just enough time to sell all of their S3's, have a shortage for a while, and them "miraculously" come up with more just in time for the holiday season. Cue second sell out.
3) They still have to work out the pricing, and there are probably a lot of internal meetings (read: arguments) about just how much the market will bear and what the economic climate will be like that time of year.

That said, I think that with the new service pricing, they have to make a difficult decision. Will they "bundle" an S3 for say, $200 plus $19.95 / month for service? Should they sell it at full price (~$800)? How many people would seriously buy an S3 at that price?

You might. Your 200 neighbors will not.

One has to wonder did they shoot themselves in the foot by not building a dual-tuner, CableCard standalone unit sooner, and will they ever be able to catch up?

Dual tuners, HD, CableCard, the Tivo interface - all well and good, but I personally will not pay $800 for it. For a little more, I can build a cheap HTPC. I am building a house (will be moving in less than a month!) and my cable provider will be Comcast. I'll have to put up with the Motorola box at first, but if the S3 inital cost is more than 1 or 2 bills, I won't have to wait for the price to come down - I'll just get a Comcast Tivo at that point. And then where will Tivo be?

Saving $15 on the DVR rental fee will not justify the cost of the S3, especially being that 1) I'll still have to pay for digital cable (including their hidden DVR fees!!) to get HD content, and 2) that $15 ($10 box rental, $5 DVR service) isn't really saved because there's Tivo's $19.95, no lifetime option.

--um.... that wasn't supposed to turn into a rant.... apologies and cookies!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> You have a strange definition of "on the brink" - we're 60+ days away from July 1st, which would be the first day of the second half.


We're a lot closer to the brink than we were in early January.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> You have a strange definition of "on the brink" - we're 60+ days away from July 1st, which would be the first day of the second half.


Actually, from Jan. 1 through June 30, there are 181 days (Jan=31, Feb=28, March=31, April=30, May=31 and June=30). So, technically, after noon on July 2 (at 182.5 days), THEN we're in to the second half of 2006  (but, of course, that depends on what time zone you're in!)


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## Boob Tube Goober (Jan 28, 2005)

timckelley said:


> Also, in my case, our first TiVo is now my wife's, and I have the second TiVo.


Ditto here, except I got the _THIRD_!


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> So, technically, after noon on July 2 (at 182.5 days), THEN we're in to the second half of 2006


What timezone??


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

classicX said:


> It has become apparent to me that the most logical release would take place around late August - Early September. Here's why: ........


I think it's more likely to be "as soon as it's ready".


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Lukej said:


> I imagine many people will be waiting for the series 3 to come out, check price and abilities, and make a final decision on whether series 3 is worth it or DT series 2 would be a more appropriate upgrade


You're assuming that people will care to upgrade. And that's a big assumption. Remember, with the S2 DT out, the only sellable difference between that and the S3 is HD. Let's face it, HD is great, but not everyone is willing to pay an extra $50 - $70 per month for it. Especially if they don't watch much TV or the shows they watch aren't even in HD.

My brother and his wife have two S2's, and with only basic cable they don't care to upgrade to Digital Cable just for HD, especially since they only watch cable channels that have no HD counterparts. To them, it's not even worth it to "upgrade" to an S2 DT because hey, if there's a conflict, they can just record it on the other Tivo.

The only other main selling point is Tivo's interface, which I think is awesome, but also quite overrated. If the cable company DVR's did not change a THING about their interface, but were 99% reliable, Tivo would be a hard, if not impossible sell.

I know what I'm talking about because I came to cable from DirecTivo, and now have an SA HD DVR. I know first hand the differences, but you know what - I've missed a show or two because of problems with the SA box, but all in all it's been pretty stable. There's always reruns. And iTunes.

How on Earth would I convince my wife to go along with not only paying out the wazoo for a new box, but end up paying more per month as well???


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

OK I was only a week off on my guess for the release of the S2DT, so I'm going to take another wild stab in the dark and say the Series 3 will be released on August 28th, 2006. If I'm right, you heard it here first. 

Dan


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

classicX said:


> You're assuming that people will care to upgrade. And that's a big assumption. Remember, with the S2 DT out, the only sellable difference between that and the S3 is HD. Let's face it, HD is great, but not everyone is willing to pay an extra $50 - $70 per month for it. Especially if they don't watch much TV or the shows they watch aren't even in HD.


I think you underestimate the number of people that currently have a series 1 or series 2 TiVo that AREN'T going to jump to the Series 2 DT with the Series 3 just around the corner. Not sure how you get it's going to be an extra $50-$70 permonth easier.

Yeah, HD is the MAJOR difference between the two, but so is the ability to record ANY two programs off of a FULL cable lineup (including the "digital" channels and the premium channels). The Series 2 DT CAN'T do that.

Series 3 is positioned as a higher end device. It's not for EVERYONE, but there certainly is a market for it. It's essentially what you had with the DirecTiVo, but for people with cable TC who DO subscribe to the big programming packages.


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

It's not just the HD. While that is a dang good reason to want a S3, dual tuner AND ATSC are big draws. The S2 DT provides the same service for me as a regualr S2 since I don't have analog cable.

I have pay TV via VDSL which I seriously doubt will comply with cable card. I plan on keeping at least one lifetimed S2 around to record from it.

A pair of S3's will be doing quality time double-dipping off-air ATSC at my place. I'll be able to pretty much dedicate a tuner to a network with this setup . Right now S2 Tivo #2 records almost exclusively everything primetime on Fox.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Lukej said:


> Well, I have digital cable, but I just am very suspicious of how willing to help a smooth transition to TIVO+cablecard from digital cable box the cable companies would be. This is the same industry that once upon a time considered it ethical to charge you by outlet in every single room.


Cable companies are required by law to provide cable cards to people to ask for them. You will still have to pay for digital cable, but not box rental fees, remote rental fees, or DVR service fees. Some cable companies will also tell you that they need to do the install, even if you just want cable card. Don't let them if you don't want them to mess up your equipment.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

classicX said:


> Cable companies are required by law to provide cable cards to people to ask for them. You will still have to pay for digital cable, but not box rental fees, remote rental fees, or DVR service fees. Some cable companies will also tell you that they need to do the install, even if you just want cable card. Don't let them if you don't want them to mess up your equipment.


This is true, but they aren't required to make it easy. I've seen lots of annecdotal reports where the cable companies "play dumb" when it comes to CableCard. Someone's lack of faith in their cable company certainly isn't unjustified.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> I think you underestimate the number of people that currently have a series 1 or series 2 TiVo that AREN'T going to jump to the Series 2 DT with the Series 3 just around the corner.


Maybe, but I don't think it's common for people to pay for HD through the cable company and still use an SD Tivo. Not many of those customers will upgrade to digital cable just for an S3.



jsmeeker said:


> Not sure how you get it's going to be an extra $50-$70 permonth easier.


The cost of digital cable plus the monthly Tivo service. But then again, there's always ATSC, which is a big point that I missed in my earlier post.

It wouldn't be so bad that Comcast doesn't have Fox in HD yet where I'm going if I can get it over the air on the other tuner.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

classicX said:


> Maybe, but I don't think it's common for people to pay for HD through the cable company and still use an SD Tivo. Not many of those customers will upgrade to digital cable just for an S3.
> 
> The cost of digital cable plus the monthly Tivo service. But then again, there's always ATSC, which is a big point that I missed in my earlier post.
> 
> It wouldn't be so bad that Comcast doesn't have Fox in HD yet where I'm going if I can get it over the air on the other tuner.


If they have HD from cable, they already have a digital cable package, most likely. At least that's the way it works where I am. Want HD? you gotta get a digital tier. So, really, it's for people that ARE already paying for it. There are a lot of people with fulll blown digitial cable TV packages.

Me? I'll actually upgrade to a digital tier to use a series 3. Until very late last year, digital wasn't even available to me. But now it is. But I hate, hate, hate using a cable box. So, I didn't upgrade. When the Series 3 was announced, I determined it would be the PERFECT thing for me. There are not as many people in my situation, but there are a good number in the first. The people that DO have a digital tier, maybe not with the HD option, but they have all the digital stuff and the premium stuff. Don't forget the OTHER thing you missed. Being able to record ANY two of those programs. Something the Series 2 CAN'T do.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

classicX,
Here are a couple of points you may have overlooked.

1. Subscription to digital cable and cable card rental aren't required (in most systems) for local HD channels over cable.
2. There are probably plenty of people either waiting for the S3 to make their move into HD, have an SD TiVo with an HD-DVR, or have an SD TiVo and a HD cable box connected.

I'm always surprised at the number of people with multiple TiVos so it shouldn't come as a shock to think there are people with HDTV and a SD TiVo while subbing to digital cable.

I have absolutely no interest in the S2-DT since I already have a HD-DVR. Now the S3 will be great and save me money as I pay ~17 a month for the box, remote, and DVR service. This is compared to TiVo service at 12.95 or 6.95 plus ~$3 for each cable card. 

Yes people with zero experience with the TiVo interface will be a hard sell, but everyone that has experienced the TiVo interface will be an easy sell. It isn't just a reliability issue with the cable co's DVRs, I like being able to schedule shows a couple weeks in advance, I like the TiVo search features, the additional non DVR features (TTG, remote scheduling, podcasts, etc) are just icing on the cake.

So lets look at a few different consumers (this DOES NOT include all different types of customers):
- Satellite: Don't bother, get a S2 or the sat DVR
- OTA only: This device would be ideal especially if they are currently NTSC only.
- Analog Cable and Analog TV: Not worth it with the S2-DT on the market
- Analog cable and HDTV: Worth it for many reasons, ability to record OTA ATSC and QAM non-encrypted channels
- Digital cable and HDTV w/0 other TiVos: This is a fine line, depending on the HD-DVR rental fees the S3 may work out to be more expensive
- Digital cable and HDTV w/1+ other TiVos: This is a no brainer. The MSD and cable card rental will certainly be less per month than rental fees, not to mention the S3 will allow you to get all your locals even if your cable co doesn't offer them.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

terryfoster said:


> I'm always surprised at the number of people with multiple TiVos so it shouldn't come as a shock to think there are people with HDTV and a SD TiVo while subbing to digital cable.


We have 6 TiVos and a MOXI DVR leased from the cable company for HD.  We also have a regular digital cable box connected to one of the TiVos for recording non-HD premium content.

Dan


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

classicX said:


> Some cable companies will also tell you that they need to do the install, even if you just want cable card. Don't let them if you don't want them to mess up your equipment.


Comacst say they must install CableCard if I want it, how do I persuade them otherwise?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

btwyx said:


> Comacst say they must install CableCard if I want it, how do I persuade them otherwise?


Tell them you will require them to sign a statement accepting any liability from damage to your equipment if they insist on installing the card themselves. I almost got a cable card and that's the approach I used when they told me "it was a very complicated and technical process" and they backed off almost immediately.

There's ABSOLUTELY no need for them to do so - you put the card in, go to a diag screen and read off some numbers. A Comcast rep will type them into the computer and you'll be all set.

If Comcast does it, what's the difference?
- their installer plugs the CC into the device
- their installer calls the Comcast CSR

I'm fairly certain that a cable company can't force you to have them install the CC any more than they can force you to have them install a cable box.

If they don't budge, complain to your local franchise authority and the FCC.
When the Series 3 is released, I expect to go through this for real - no way I'm (a) paying an installation charge to have someone plug in a PC card and (b) no way anyone but me is touching my new Series 3.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

They do this because they apparently get a lot of customers unable to properly install the card or who are confused about whether they can use a card. Some cable companies are more lilely to insist on a "truck roll" than others. Having a tech do the install also allows them to charge you for it, discouaging you from getting a CableCARD. (The companies want you to use their box instead.)


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

stevel said:


> They do this because they apparently get a lot of customers unable to properly install the card or who are confused about whether they can use a card. Some cable companies are more lilely to insist on a "truck roll" than others. Having a tech do the install also allows them to charge you for it, discouaging you from getting a CableCARD. (The companies want you to use their box instead.)


exactly. The last thing they want to do it make cable TV easy for you. They WANT you to think that you must rely on THEM in some way or another. They can squeeze more money out of you that way. That's their goal.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't mind paying the fee to have the cards "installed" but when the guy gets there I'm going to be the one who plugs them into the TiVos. There is no way I'm going to let some hack install tech touch my new S3 units. 

Dan


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## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> Tell them you will require them to sign a statement accepting any liability from damage to your equipment if they insist on installing the card themselves. I almost got a cable card and that's the approach I used when they told me "it was a very complicated and technical process" and they backed off almost immediately.
> 
> There's ABSOLUTELY no need for them to do so - you put the card in, go to a diag screen and read off some numbers. A Comcast rep will type them into the computer and you'll be all set.
> 
> ...


Count yourself lucky. Can't get a CC here without TimeWarnerCable doing the install. They say "We have to call back to the head billing office once it's installed to activate the card"


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## Lukej (Apr 28, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> This is true, but they aren't required to make it easy. I've seen lots of annecdotal reports where the cable companies "play dumb" when it comes to CableCard. Someone's lack of faith in their cable company certainly isn't unjustified.


This was also mentioned on a different thread, but my cable company stated they have no cablecard plans for the immediate future. Since I llive in a small city, they may be exempt from cablecard rules.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Lukej said:


> This was also mentioned on a different thread, but my cable company stated they have no cablecard plans for the immediate future. Since I llive in a small city, they may be exempt from cablecard rules.


possibly. IIRC, people have pointed out the rule only applies to larger operators. And even then, it won't surprise me in the least if sometimes even they won't offer them, even when prodded.. The law doesn't mean crap. What actually happens means something. If the law says they must, and they don't, what happens?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Gene S said:


> Count yourself lucky. Can't get a CC here without TimeWarnerCable doing the install. They say "We have to call back to the head billing office once it's installed to activate the card"


Yes, and there's NO REASON the rep can't make that call with you on the phone and/or after you've provided the required information.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> Yes, and there's NO REASON the rep can't make that call with you on the phone and/or after you've provided the required information.


Other than that there is no good reason for them to give in to you. What compels them to? Nothing. They can make money off of you. You'll have to really fight them to make it happen.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

btwyx said:


> Comacst say they must install CableCard if I want it, how do I persuade them otherwise?


I went to Comcast's FAQ page to find out how much they will charge for installation.

this is what it says



> Can I install a CableCARD myself or does a technician need to come to my home?
> 
> At this time, professional installation by a Comcast technician is required (NOTE: insert local install costs here)


I'm glad that's clear


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## Lukej (Apr 28, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> possibly. IIRC, people have pointed out the rule only applies to larger operators. And even then, it won't surprise me in the least if sometimes even they won't offer them, even when prodded.. The law doesn't mean crap. What actually happens means something. If the law says they must, and they don't, what happens?


Man, ain't that the truth?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> I don't mind paying the fee to have the cards "installed" but when the guy gets there I'm going to be the one who plugs them into the TiVos. There is no way I'm going to let some hack install tech touch my new S3 units.
> 
> Dan


No one but me works on my "stuff"


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

sooo, when the series 3 comes out, if i buy it from best buy or somewhere other than a bundle deal at tivo.com, i can get the multi service discount because of my other tivo?


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

xnevergiveinx said:


> sooo, when the series 3 comes out, if i buy it from best buy or somewhere other than a bundle deal at tivo.com, i can get the multi service discount because of my other tivo?


Yes, according to standard TiVo pricing. This assumes that TiVo doesn't decide to change their pricing again, but doesn't seem likely since they so rarely change pricing.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

xnevergiveinx said:


> sooo, when the series 3 comes out, if i buy it from best buy or somewhere other than a bundle deal at tivo.com, i can get the multi service discount because of my other tivo?


Or, if your other TiVo is not lifetime or a bundle itself, you can buy the bundle from TiVo and it will force the other unit down to MSD rates. The best part about this is the TiVo price has the rebate built in, so you don't have to wait 8-10 weeks to get your money back.

Dan


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## darkeyes909 (Feb 6, 2006)

With Charter, they come out for the install, they charge me for it. But the installer steps aside while I do the physical install, then he does the "calling in, read the numbers to the head end" routine. Never had one object. They just want the install fee.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I contacted Charter to ask about their CableCARD installation. They said it was $30 for the "truck roll fee" and then $1.50 per month per card. They also said that they would only change the $30 once even if I had 4 CableCARDs installed, so if you're going to get multiple units it sounds like you'd be wise to have the CableCARDs installed all at once.

Dan


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

Wow, i'm glad TWC doesn't charge for house calls....


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I think I'm going to contact my franchise authority - if Comcast is going to force me to have a truck roll, I'm not going to pay for it, because there is no legal, technical or practical reason for them to do so, especially since the local office has already admitted that I probably know more about CableCards than anyone they could send.

I'm entitled to a CableCard as part of my base digital package and I'm not going to pay anything for the priviledge.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Adelphia, despite seemingly being in it's last throes before big, bad Comcast takes over, seems to have the best service of 'em all! (GASP!)

My local office (a mere 1 mile from home) offered to let me take a couple of Cable Cards home, as and when I bought a CableCard ready device.

As it is, I walked out wit a 6412 HD-DVR and one DCT2000 cable box.

Now ... it could just be that they're short-staffed, right?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I specifically asked Charter if they allowed self installation and they said no. Their reason was that once the card was installed the tech had to call in some numbers from the device to activate the card. The weird thing is they also told me that if I ever removed the card and inserted it into another device it would require another "truck roll" so the technician could input the numbers again. 

Dan


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ashu said:


> My local office (a mere 1 mile from home) offered to let me take a couple of Cable Cards home, as and when I bought a CableCard ready device.


Congrats!

At least they didn't tell you that it was impossible to install a CableCard in any device other than a television, which is one of the outlandish claims I heard when I first called about getting a CC for my Sony DVR.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I specifically asked Charter if they allowed self installation and they said no. Their reason was that once the card was installed the tech had to call in some numbers from the device to activate the card.


You essentially need the MAC address (or whatever it is) printed on the card and some device specific info, usually off a diagnostics screen that the tech will probably ask you to find anyway.



> The weird thing is they also told me that if I ever removed the card and inserted it into another device it would require another "truck roll" so the technician could input the numbers again.


Understandable, since the combo of the specific device+card MAC is what is used to authorize service/type of service.

I kind of think of the CableCard authorization process being similar to what DirecTV goes through to marry an authorization card with a receiver.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

DCIFRTHS said:


> No one but me works on my "stuff"


I couldn't agree with you more. I'm closing on a new house next week, and I will have all of my equipment in a closet behind the TV, so just a plasma on the wall. Here's what I plan to do, expecially since the S3 will not be available by then:

Make them work for their install fee. If the cable company insists on doing the install, I'll just make them install a cable box for every cablecard I want, then the next day I'll just bring the boxes back to Comcast (sans CableCards, "I thought they were mine to keep?" haha). This way, they get to make their call to activate the service, they DON'T have to go into my equipment rack (make him install it on top of a cardboard box plugged directly into the TV), and they won't touch your Tivo. What will they do, refuse to let you keep the cards?


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## hockeyinsd (Sep 23, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> I kind of think of the CableCard authorization process being similar to what DirecTV goes through to marry an authorization card with a receiver.


Which is fine, except that you don't pay for the DirecTV install.

While I don't have any CC devices, when that time comes, I figure I'll start with basic cable, then call to upgrade to the CC w/everything. If they tell me that there is a charge to install the CC cards and I can't install them myself, I'll just tell them forget it, I'll go with Satellite and see what happens.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

hockeyinsd said:


> Which is fine, except that you don't pay for the DirecTV install.


You DO, if you don't wish to be married to their contract for 18-24 months (18 for Dish, 24 for DTV if you want the new HD packages installed)

Of course, the impending (any day/week/month/millenium) S3 TiVo is why I have no desire to be tied to a contract. And the impending availability of Verizon FIOS, and hopefully their CableCards.

The 50 I paid at installation was worth it when all I had to do was call Dish and let them know it was over, and to come get their boxes. Of course, they sent postage prepaid cardboard containers instead.


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## faspina (Nov 4, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I But I hate, hate, hate using a cable box. So, I didn't upgrade. When the Series 3 was announced, I determined it would be the PERFECT thing for me.


I am in your exact situation. I just bought a HD Tv because mine was on the bring of blowing and I need one with more inputs on it. Not I have analog cable, don't watch HD unless its over the air, and am ready for the S3 to be released.


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

Well, I'm hoping the series 3 will be out before the fall television season starts. It's looking like the new TiVo will be desperately needed on Mondays.

Anyone know what the deal is with cablecard and RCN? The only reference I can find is at this link. Maybe they haven't updated the site in a while, since it sounds like it's preparing for the future use of cable cards as opposed to anything happening right now. It also sounds like it will not be easy to convince them to let us avoid using a technician screwing around with our setup.


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