# Bolt via WiFi help please



## HDRyder9 (Aug 2, 2007)

If I have a Tivo Bolt that can only connect to the internet via WiFi can I still use MOCA to talk to a couple Tivo minis? I doubt I'll have enough bandwidth to stream but I just want to use the minis to watch live TV and recorded shows.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Maybe. You'd need to provide more details on the setup and constraints.

But first... Why can't the BOLT do MoCA, as well? Especially since it sounds like the Minis *could* be connected to your coax plant and be networked via MoCA.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HDRyder9 said:


> I doubt I'll have enough bandwidth to stream but I just want to use the minis to watch live TV and recorded shows.


The streaming the Minis do from the host DVR for live or recorded content typically requires much more bandwidth than what is required by the Internet streaming apps. (see this post for some slightly out-of-date info)


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## HDRyder9 (Aug 2, 2007)

Internet---------WiFi----------Bolt----------Mini

I just want to watch live and recorded TV on the Mini. Will this work?

The Bolt has a Comcast cable connection but no access to an Ethernet connection to the internet.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HDRyder9 said:


> Internet---------WiFi----------Bolt----------Mini


Sadly, no, though it's a good idea and was supposedly something TiVo's engineers were once looking at (per Ira Bahr, circa Oct 2015), though I've never heard another word on it.

You'd need to use some other wireless bridge/adapter at the BOLT location to make the wireless connection, connecting the BOLT to this device via Ethernet ... and then the BOLT could act as the MoCA bridge. For example:

Internet------((WiFi))------Linksys WUMC710----[Ethernet]-----Bolt-----{COAX}-----Minis

And this setup *would* allow you to stream recorded and live TV content from the BOLT to the Minis via the coax/MoCA connection, since the heavy lifting is being done by the wired coax/MoCA connection. The wireless link would be reserved for service connections and Internet streaming apps, which require less bandwidth.



HDRyder9 said:


> The Bolt has a Comcast cable connection but no access to an Ethernet connection to the internet.


Wouldn't a MoCA adapter at the cable modem/router location allow both the BOLT and Minis to network as MoCA clients?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> You'd need to use some other wireless bridge/adapter at the BOLT location to make the wireless connection, connecting the BOLT to this device via Ethernet ... and then the BOLT could act as the MoCA bridge. For example:
> 
> Internet------((WiFi))------Linksys WUMC710----[Ethernet]-----Bolt-----{COAX}-----Minis


Sorry, but that Linksys is a wireless bridge that is used by a client(s) to change Ethernet to WiFi. The diagram would be simply:
Internet(modem) ---- Router (WiFi) ------- Bolt ---{COAX} ----- Minis
Given a reasonable environment and router, this should work ok. But just to achieve "ok" could be a challenge. The router, as usual, is the important part.

Don't you ever sleep?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Sorry, but that Linksys is a wireless bridge that is used by a client(s) to change Ethernet to WiFi. The diagram would be simply:
> Internet(modem) ---- Router (WiFi) ------- Bolt ---{COAX} ----- Minis
> Given a reasonable environment and router, this should work ok. But just to achieve "ok" could be a challenge. The router, as usual, is the important part.


I'd think the most important part would be that the BOLT cannot act as a bridge between MoCA and its internal wireless. That's why the external wireless bridge (whatever model) is required, so that the BOLT can be networked to the router _seemingly_ via its Ethernet port.

That is, if the OP is trying to leverage the BOLT's internal MoCA interface to link to the Minis as an isolated MoCA network, though I remain curious as to why a standalone MoCA adapter at the cable modem/router wouldn't kill two birds.



JoeKustra said:


> Don't you ever sleep?


Chuckle. My alarm reminder went off to plug my VUDU credits in, and couldn't get back to sleep, immediately.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I'd think the most important part would be that the BOLT cannot act as a bridge between MoCA and its internal wireless. That's why the external wireless bridge (whatever model) is required, so that the BOLT can be networked to the router _seemingly_ via its Ethernet port.
> That is, if the OP is trying to leverage the BOLT's internal MoCA interface to link to the Minis, though I remain curious as to why a standalone MoCA adapter wouldn't kill two birds.


Ok, your diagram is needed. Another bridge, with a slightly worse UI is the RE6500. I'm using both with a Mini right now.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Ok, your diagram is needed. Another bridge, with a slightly worse UI is the RE6500. I'm using both with a Mini right now.


Of course I pulled the WUMC from my recollections of @JoeKustra's posts, so I'd certainly defer to him on choice of media bridge hardware.


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## HDRyder9 (Aug 2, 2007)

OK, I was looking for a quick and dirty solution. I added a set of powerline adapters to get Ethernet to the Bolt and bridged to the MOCA network for the Minis. All is working as needed. Thanks!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Success stories are nice.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Powerline bridge to the router LAN, or wireless, whichever works. Good to hear it did.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

HDRyder9 said:


> OK, I was looking for a quick and dirty solution. I added a set of powerline adapters to get Ethernet to the Bolt and bridged to the MOCA network for the Minis. All is working as needed. Thanks!


Powerline to the rescue--thanks for updating, great to hear!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Powerline to the rescue...


Just to be clear for anyone researching the issue down the road, as stated above, either a Powerline or wireless media bridge between the isolated MoCA segment and the router would work, so long as the media bridge device provides sufficient bandwidth and latency, and can supply an Ethernet port to which the BOLT (as the MoCA bridging device) can connect. Critically, the TiVo devices should be connected via the MoCA segment, keeping any TiVo-to-TiVo streaming traffic off the lower bandwidth media bridge connection.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Just to be clear for anyone researching the issue down the road, as stated above, either a Powerline or wireless media bridge between the isolated MoCA segment and the router would work, so long as the media bridge device provides sufficient bandwidth and latency, and can supply an Ethernet port to which the BOLT (as the MoCA bridging device) can connect. Critically, the TiVo devices should be connected via the MoCA segment, keeping any TiVo-to-TiVo streaming traffic off the lower bandwidth media bridge connection.


And for completeness, some people also have had success with a fully-wireless or fully-Powerline setup, with no MoCA or Ethernet component (between TiVo boxes or otherwise). Again, YMMV, and a robust network for the wireless version helps. (My recommendation always is, to buy any needed components from a source which allows returns, in case needed . . . .)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> And for completeness, some people also have had success with a fully-wireless or fully-Powerline setup, with no MoCA or Ethernet component (between TiVo boxes or otherwise). Again, YMMV, and a robust network for the wireless version helps. (My recommendation always is, to buy any needed components from a source which allows returns, in case needed . . . .)


Except now you're taking the discussion beyond the simple bridge between the isolated MoCA segment and router sans MRS traffic, which, for completeness, should include the disclaimer that only wired Ethernet and MoCA connections for MRS are supported by TiVo, and those who've succeeded in using wireless and/or Powerline have only done so, from my reading, with a limited number of devices concurrently streaming TiVo content. (Of course, TiVo doesn't explicitly support the above configuration, either.)


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Except now you're taking the discussion beyond the simple bridge between the isolated MoCA segment and router sans MRS traffic, which, for completeness, should include the disclaimer that only wired Ethernet and MoCA connections for MRS are supported by TiVo, and those who've succeeded in using wireless and/or Powerline have only done so, from my reading, with a limited number of devices concurrently streaming TiVo content. (Of course, TiVo doesn't explicitly support the above configuration, either.)


Yep: TiVo doesn't warrant either a "hybrid" wireless/Powerline-MoCA/Ethernet setup or a totally wireless/Powerline setup--TiVo wants a fully-wired (be it MoCA or Ethernet) setup. And yet a totally wireless or Powerline system has worked for users (I don't recall seeing people here providing much commentary on how much concurrent use (such as, 4 Mini's playing at the same time?) this can support, but I would imagine that the load would influence matters--Ethernet(/MoCA) always will win out, at the present time). As I mentioned previously, any of this carries a YMMV badge.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> And yet a totally wireless or Powerline system has worked for users (I don't recall seeing people here providing much commentary on how much concurrent use (such as, 4 Mini's playing at the same time?) this can support, but I would imagine that the load would influence matters--Ethernet(/MoCA) always will win out, at the present time).


I posted somewhere sometime in the past that I could run three A93 Mini boxes with 1080i/5.1 channels to one basic Roamio. Due to space all three Mini boxes shared to same bridge. Everything was 802.11ac.

That was then. Things change.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> I posted somewhere sometime in the past that I could run three A93 Mini boxes with 1080i/5.1 channels to one basic Roamio. Due to space all three Mini boxes shared to same bridge. Everything was 802.11ac.
> 
> That was then. Things change.


Thanks, Joe, I was hoping you might have further load info. I think that we all should hire you for wireless solutions.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Except now you're taking the discussion beyond the simple bridge between the isolated MoCA segment and router sans MRS traffic, which, for completeness, should include the disclaimer that only wired Ethernet and MoCA connections for MRS are supported by TiVo, and those who've succeeded in using wireless and/or Powerline have only done so, from my reading, with a limited number of devices concurrently streaming TiVo content. (Of course, TiVo doesn't explicitly support the above configuration, either.)


FWIW, the stress testing (and other testing) I've seen of newer wireless products is consistent with them being able to handle four Mpeg-2 streams at once (and then some). Some of these wireless bridges see 500-800 megabits/s (real transfer, not link speed) of backhaul.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

fyodor said:


> FWIW, the stress testing (and other testing) I've seen of newer wireless products is consistent with them being able to handle four Mpeg-2 streams at once (and then some). Some of these wireless bridges see 500-800 megabits/s (real transfer, not link speed) of backhaul.


Even my seven year old wireless N bridges could easily handle four streams to/from a Tivo. It's not an issue if you setup the wifi network properly. The problem is that most people do not.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Well, given this downward spiral began with a simple clarification that wireless could work as well as Powerline for the issue central to the thread...


krkaufman said:


> Just to be clear for anyone researching the issue down the road, as stated above, either a Powerline or wireless media bridge between the isolated MoCA segment and the router would work, so long as the media bridge device provides sufficient bandwidth and latency, and can supply an Ethernet port to which the BOLT (as the MoCA bridging device) can connect.


... I'll tick this one off as complete.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Well, given this downward spiral began with a simple clarification that wireless could work as well as Powerline for the issue central to the thread...
> ​... I'll tick this one off as complete.


But it's really not a downward spiral at all, IMHO--simply a further clarification, to keep matters as complete as possible and with some users providing positive examples, that some people have had success with a total wireless and/or Powerline solution, no MoCA or Ethernet segment required at all. That can be a good thing, especially for some people with home wiring challenges.


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

I stress tested my wireless network the other day.

I have two Tivo Bolts, two Tivo Minis and one TivoHD.

All are connected via wireless bridges. One mini and the HD share the same wireless bridge.

I had both Minis streaming Live TV from its Bolt. Each Bolt streaming content from the other Bolt. And a Bolt copying a movie from the TivoHD. Simultaneously.

Network didn't even hiccup. Solid as a rock.

My main router and all four bridges are TP-Link Archer C7s. I got five of those babies off eBay for about $35 each and immediately loaded Gargoyle on them. Router is reporting link speeds between the main router and bridges as follows:

975 Mb/s
1170 Mb/s
975 Mb/s
702 Mb/s

As has been said before, if the network is set up correctly, wireless can work just fine.

[NG]Owner


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