# Anyone watch "Elementary" on CBS?



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I have been watching and enjoying the show but have not seen any mention here.

It is your basic crime consultant that "sees" things that the cops don't and then is able to make leaps of logic and deduction. The character is put together fairly well. He is an ex drug addict that has a companion with him to help keep him straight - even though he swears he is off the stuff and it was just an experiment. His companion is a female named Watson. It is very Monk-like in that he has his own quirks and such. 

And for all that, it is enjoyable and I wondered if anyone else was watching it.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I'm watching it, and enjoying it.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I really enjoy it too. I don't like his companion (Lucy Liu) as when she was in other shows. I especially enjoyed her in Allie McBeal so many years ago. 

You would think I would have got enough of cop and robbers shows, but I enjoy this show and still like the Mentalist. Neither are as good as Dexter or Breaking Bad, but still so much better than any of the CSI series except Las Vegas.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Yep! Watching and enjoying. I've never been a big fan of traditional Sherlock Holmes, as in set in the era of the books, but I like the modern versions. And I like all the actors on this version.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Also enjoying it, love Watson's outfits.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

My wife and I both enjoy the show.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Lucy Liu is interesting as a very human Watson, the Holmes character is mostly just annoying, and ill-mannered in a way Arthur Conan Doyle's original character would find appalling.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm loving Elementary, it and Arrow are my 2 favorite new shows.


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

My wife and I have watched from the beginning and we both like it. I actually like Lucy on this particular show. Not normally her biggest fan, but this role works for her.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I'm watching and enjoying.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

We've watched them all too. I prefer the PBS version, but I'm enjoying this show very much.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

NJ_HB said:


> Also enjoying it, love Watson's outfits.


That's funny, we just watched the 11/29 episode last night and my wife mentioned how much she likes the costuming. It's a good show because Lucy Liu is shown actually wearing crappy clothes around the house, like all the rest of us do!

I really like Jonny Lee Miller, and this is no exception. He was great in Eli Stone, but it's enjoyable to see him do his normal accent.

One problem I forsee is the structure that develops. Open Case. Holmes finds the guilty party! Holmes discovers he was wrong. Captain doesn't believe Holmes. Holmes proves he was right and finds the real guilty party!


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Overall I don't watch many/any procedurals. The ones I have watched have had good characters to override the kind of boring weekly stories. In that sense, I can see Elementary being a bit like Life, but that was a much better show overall. They kind of need to give us some big back story/plot as the season goes on.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

billypritchard said:


> I really like Jonny Lee Miller, and this is no exception. He was great in Eli Stone, but it's enjoyable to see him do his normal accent.


Eli Stone! I didn't make the connection before reading this.



billypritchard said:


> I can see Elementary being a bit like Life, but that was a much better show overall.


I really liked Life. That's what got me to start watching Homeland.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

jehma said:


> We've watched them all too. I prefer the PBS version, but I'm enjoying this show very much.


Same here. One of the shows we both enjoy.

I mean my wife and I, not jehma and I.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I watch it, but no one else in my family seems very interested. It's a mid-range show for me.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

eddyj said:


> Same here. One of the shows we both enjoy.
> 
> I mean my wife and I, not jehma and I.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I'm watching it, and enjoying it.


+1


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## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

We watch it and like it. 

Everytime Sherlock Holmes is introduced to someone, I keep expecting them to say "Really? Sherlock Holmes? Where did you come up with that name?"


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## StacieH (Jan 2, 2009)

I like it. I wouldn't be upset if I missed an episode, but I like it.

Jonny Lee Miller used to be married to Angelina Jolie.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Watching and enjoying, although I almost didn't. I didn't plan on watching this show but gave it a one-off shot. I almost turned off the pilot within 15 minutes or so but stuck with it. It's probably one of my favorite new shows this year.


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## dylking (Jul 20, 2003)

Watching it in our household as well. Enjoying it as well, although the last couple of episodes have me confused - Watson's setting up scenarios where she'll no longer be the companion...

that would kill half the dynamic of the show


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I like it. I am, however, worried that it will go the way of most shows of its type and dumb down his observation / deduction skills over time.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Watching, but it's not must see. Can't stand Lucy Liu. Fast forward a lot of her scenes, especially if they only deal with his addiction and not the case.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

I watch anything Sherlock Holmes, and this is an interesting new take on it.



dylking said:


> Watching it in our household as well. Enjoying it as well, although the last couple of episodes have me confused - Watson's setting up scenarios where she'll no longer be the companion...
> 
> that would kill half the dynamic of the show


Really? Are you seriously worried?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

scooterboy said:


> Really? Are you seriously worried?


Yeah, I assume that Lucy will not be leaving regardless of any plot element that points in that direction.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Watching and enjoying it in our house. This show has kind of taken the place of The Mentalist for us. We loved Mentalist in the beginning, but lately we've been feeling like it's running out of gas. Elementary seems very similar, but somehow better. Maybe just because it's new.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Since Watson has never spoken to Sherlocks father, it's likely Sherlock is his father and set her up from the beginning. Wouldn't be surprised if he tells her as much and offers her a permanent position.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

It's like Monk mixed with House. 

Loving it


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

SeanC said:


> Yeah, I assume that Lucy will not be leaving regardless of any plot element that points in that direction.


I'm sure all this is just to A) give them something beside the case of the week to talk about, and B) transition her from a putatively temporary position to a permanent one.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I'm enjoying it for the cast, which is usually what I look for.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I am really enjoying this show, and am developing a mad crush on Lucy Liu!

HoosierFan stole my thunder, but one of the things that bugs me is when he is introduced to someone as "Sherlock Holmes" and there is not one iota of a reaction, as if the fictional character doesn't even exist in that world!


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> HoosierFan stole my thunder, but one of the things that bugs me is when he is introduced to someone as "Sherlock Holmes" and there is not one iota of a reaction, as if the fictional character doesn't even exist in that world!


He obviously doesn't.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> as if the fictional character doesn't even exist in that world!


I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be the case. The fictional character _doesn't_ exist in that world.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Yeah, it's 100% clear to me that there's no fictional Sherlock Holmes in this show's universe.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BrettStah said:


> Yeah, it's 100% clear to me that there's no fictional Sherlock Holmes in this show's universe.


Yeah, that seems kind of "Well, duh" to me...why would there be a fictional Sherlock Holmes in the universe where Sherlock Holmes's adventures take place?

This show, after all, IS about Sherlock Holmes, albeit transferred to the 21st century.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, that seems kind of "Well, duh" to me...why would there be a fictional Sherlock Holmes in the universe where Sherlock Holmes's adventures take place?
> 
> This show, after all, IS about Sherlock Holmes, albeit transferred to the 21st century.


Or to use another phrase:

No ****, Sherlock.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I like it.
I sometimes wish these shows would just get rid of the bumbling Police and have these characters as the authority figure, ala Columbo.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I like this show, too. It is eeringly similar to Monk, but this show doesn't seem to have a person comparable to Randy, ie bumbling detective in love with Sharona/Watson. The cap'n's in each are atcually capable cops, it is just that Monk/Sherlock are better, but both of their supervisors realize this, too, but also realize the limitations of their geniuses. Neither Monk/Sherlock, nor their sexy assistants, will ever carry a gun.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Or to use another phrase:
> 
> No ****, Sherlock.


Dammit I wish I had thought of that one!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Donbadabon said:


> I like it.
> I sometimes wish these shows would just get rid of the bumbling Police and have these characters as the authority figure, ala Columbo.


I love Columbo!


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I love Columbo!


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## dylking (Jul 20, 2003)

scooterboy said:


> Really? Are you seriously worried?





SeanC said:


> Yeah, I assume that Lucy will not be leaving regardless of any plot element that points in that direction.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm sure all this is just to A) give them something beside the case of the week to talk about, and B) transition her from a putatively temporary position to a permanent one.


Not worried, I was confused. However, I think Rob's post probably cleared up my confusion.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Tobashadow said:


> It's like Monk mixed with House.
> 
> Loving it


I agree, but when you consider that House was essentially Sherlock Holmes in a medical environment and that Greg House was based off Holmes, it's not really surprising.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Craigbob said:


> I agree, but when you consider that House was essentially Sherlock Holmes in a medical environment and that Greg House was based off Holmes, it's not really surprising.


And of course Arthur Conan Doyle based Holmes on a Scottish physician in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bell


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Find all the writers, tattoo this in reverse and forwards (like "ambulance") on their foreheads so they see it everytime they see each other or look in a mirror:



NO ROMANCE (or any kind of sex) BETWEEN HOLMES AND WATSON!!! EVER!!!


We now return you to your reguarly scheduled rant.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

unitron said:


> Find all the writers, tattoo this in reverse and forwards (like "ambulance") on their foreheads so they see it everytime they see each other or look in a mirror:
> 
> NO ROMANCE (or any kind of sex) BETWEEN HOLMES AND WATSON!!! EVER!!!
> 
> We now return you to your reguarly scheduled rant.


Then you'll be glad to read this


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Then you'll be glad to read this


What was said there was how many people wanted to watch ONLY for the relationship.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Then you'll be glad to read this


Excellent news, although I don't understand why people thing Miller is attractive.

And I think doing away completely with the "Dragon Lady" thing is why Liu is attractive here.

But let's leave the characters as squabbling siblings who slowly get to know each other and develop a platonic friendship.

Besides, Adler is supposed to be the only woman ever where he's concerned.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> What was said there was how many people wanted to watch ONLY for the relationship.


And that the showrunners said it will never happen.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I predict a plot line where they have to pretend to be romantically involved, and they will do so (somewhat grudgingly).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BrettStah said:


> I predict a plot line where they have to pretend to be romantically involved, and they will do so (somewhat grudgingly).


And badly.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> I predict a plot line where they have to pretend to be romantically involved, and they will do so (somewhat grudgingly).


That's the obligatory "let's pretend we're married so we can go undercover" storyline. Monk/Sharona (or her replacement, or maybe both of 'em), Bones/Booth, Castle/Beckett have all done it. Not sure about Jane/Lisbon. I think they've even done it in Perception with the guy and the FBI agent. Good for a laugh or two but a worn out plot device.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Person of Interest had this plot recently. It was amusing though.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jehma said:


> Eli Stone! I didn't make the connection before reading this.


I think I had to look him up on imdb at least twice (after seeing an ep at someone else's house, then when I started watching myself) for it to finally stick in my brain where I knew him from He seemed *so* familiar. It's just another one of those foreigners stealing our jobs!!! heh heh


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Person of Interest had this plot recently. It was amusing though.


I hope it wasn't Lost guy and Jesus guy.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mattack said:


> ... It's just another one of those foreigners stealing our jobs!!! heh heh


The nerve of those people hiring a guy from the UK to play an Englishman!


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## digdug (Jan 13, 2004)

Watching and enjoying this. It took a few episodes to grow on me but I find intrigued.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

TampaThunder said:


> That's the obligatory "let's pretend we're married so we can go undercover" storyline. Monk/Sharona (or her replacement, or maybe both of 'em), Bones/Booth, Castle/Beckett have all done it. Not sure about Jane/Lisbon. I think they've even done it in Perception with the guy and the FBI agent. Good for a laugh or two but a worn out plot device.


Tony/Ziva on NCIS... you are so right. And this *is* an old worn theme. I'm pretty sure I recall this on an episode of Remington Steele with Remington Steele/Laura Holt, and even Lois Lane/Clark Kent did it in Superman II. I have to believe it was used in early TV and early Movies too. Assuming this started in literature, who was the first to pen this gift that just keeps on giving?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cstelter said:


> Assuming this started in literature, who was the first to pen this gift that just keeps on giving?


Shakespeare must have used it, although nothing pops into my head at the moment...

But in my experience, most of today's tired old clichés can be found in Shakespeare.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> And that the showrunners said it will never happen.


After Lost, I refuse to believe anything show-runners say about their show.


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## JerryLBell (May 3, 2002)

I watched one episode (probably the first one) and probably would have enjoyed it more except that I'd just wrapped up the two seasons (so far) of the BBC series "Sherlock". That show is SO darned good that any other attempt to put Sherlock Holmes in modern times (much less in America) just seems nearly pathetic in comparison. I kind of wish I hadn't watched "Sherlock" first as they have such short series there (just 3 episodes per series) compared to all the episodes in a typical US season. I might have gotten more hours of enjoyment out of the relatively good "Elementary" than out of the really excellent "Sherlock".


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I love the BBC Sherlock. Elementary is so different that it does not clash for me any more than House did.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

eddyj said:


> I love the BBC Sherlock. Elementary is so different that it does not clash for me any more than House did.


+1£


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Horrible Surface product placement.

Othrwise, I still like it.


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## dylking (Jul 20, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Horrible Surface product placement.
> 
> Othrwise, I still like it.


Not quite as blatant as Hawaii 5-0, tho! Or Bones with Toyota.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Horrible Surface product placement.
> 
> Othrwise, I still like it.


We were laughing at that. They made sure to click in that keyboard!


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

jehma said:


> We were laughing at that. They made sure to click in that keyboard!


I thought the close up of him putting up the kickstand was more egregious.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Or T-Mobile on Shark Tank.


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## tgmii (Feb 21, 2002)

I like it. However the Microsoft Surface product placement was overdone.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

tgmii said:


> I like it.* However the Microsoft Surface product placement was overdone.*


++++1


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

HoosierFan said:


> We watch it and like it.
> 
> Everytime Sherlock Holmes is introduced to someone, I keep expecting them to say "Really? Sherlock Holmes? Where did you come up with that name?"





JLucPicard said:


> HoosierFan stole my thunder, but one of the things that bugs me is when he is introduced to someone as "Sherlock Holmes" and there is not one iota of a reaction, as if the fictional character doesn't even exist in that world!





scooterboy said:


> He obviously doesn't.





Dawghows said:


> I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be the case. The fictional character _doesn't_ exist in that world.





BrettStah said:


> Yeah, it's 100% clear to me that there's no fictional Sherlock Holmes in this show's universe.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, that seems kind of "Well, duh" to me...why would there be a fictional Sherlock Holmes in the universe where Sherlock Holmes's adventures take place?
> 
> This show, after all, IS about Sherlock Holmes, albeit transferred to the 21st century.


Guys, you're missing the obvious (which my husband pointed out to me).

No one recognizes the name "Sherlock Holmes" when he is introduced, because _Watson hasn't written about their adventures yet_.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Stormspace said:


> Since Watson has never spoken to Sherlocks father, it's likely Sherlock is his father and set her up from the beginning. Wouldn't be surprised if he tells her as much and offers her a permanent position.


That's one of the reasons I think the father is Moriaty. It explains how Moriaty knows Homes so well. Also, intelligence is hereditary.

Also, I agree that this show has replaced the mentalist as the awesome detective show.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

I suppose I can learn to live with this Sherlock being an ill-mannered, insensitive jerk, but for him not to know the proper pronunciation of "cache" is just wrong.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I can't recall the context, but didn't he say "cachet"?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Haven't watched the latest episode yet, AND I haven't actually read the original Sherlock stories (though today I realized they're free on iTunes, even with the original illustrations)&#8230; but it seems to me like this is actually MORE faithful to the spirit of Sherlock than the Robert Downey, Jr movies.

Don't get me wrong, I just watched both of those movies for the first time in the past few weeks and will watch any more they make.. But they seem MOSTLY to be Sherlockian in their look, whereas Elementary is Sherlockian in his whole behavior..

and again, I say this as someone who hasn't actually read the originals, just basing on various spoofs/imitations/stereotypes of the character over the years.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I can't recall the context, but didn't he say "cachet"?


Actually it was "cachets", plural, but the word needed in that instance was "caches".

Like weapon caches.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

murgatroyd said:


> Guys, you're missing the obvious (which my husband pointed out to me).
> 
> No one recognizes the name "Sherlock Holmes" when he is introduced, because _Watson hasn't written about their adventures yet_.


Well done!



mattack said:


> Haven't watched the latest episode yet, AND I haven't actually read the original Sherlock stories (though today I realized they're free on iTunes, even with the original illustrations)&#8230; but it seems to me like this is actually MORE faithful to the spirit of Sherlock than the Robert Downey, Jr movies.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I just watched both of those movies for the first time in the past few weeks and will watch any more they make.. But they seem MOSTLY to be Sherlockian in their look, whereas Elementary is Sherlockian in his whole behavior..
> 
> and again, I say this as someone who hasn't actually read the originals, just basing on various spoofs/imitations/stereotypes of the character over the years.


I said this on the other thread, but there may be some "liberties" but there are also some things that are dead on to some of the stories. One I noticed right off was when Sherlock was at the morgue (or hospital?) and Watson comes in to find him strangling dead people to test strength needed and markings. It's almost an exact replay of a scene in A Study in Scarlet. I loved that they did that.

There are other things, Watson being a big gun shy about surgery and medicine is right on because in the novels he was recovering from war and had what now may be considered Post Traumatic Stress.

You can get them on Kindle - free with a great introduction that mentions Elementary and the Robert Downey Holmes'.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-...930639&sr=8-1&keywords=sherlock+holmes+kindle


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## dylking (Jul 20, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm sure all this is just to A) give them something beside the case of the week to talk about, and B) transition her from a putatively temporary position to a permanent one.


Well, I think the most recent episode (01/10) got around that. I'm guessing it'll be a point of contention later on, though.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

madscientist said:


> Person of Interest had this plot recently. It was amusing though.





mattack said:


> I hope it wasn't Lost guy and Jesus guy.


On POI, it was John and Paige Turco, and I thought it was a good episode. This last episode of elementary, I couldn't help but thinking one of them was going to say, "I love you." I hope it doesn't happen.

Have we been given any other viable suspects for Moriaty, other than daddy?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

justen_m said:


> Have we been given any other viable suspects for Moriaty, other than daddy?


I'm guessing it's a yet to be seen character. Although Moriarty being daddy and killing Irene would be interesting.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Moriarty won't be Sherlock's father. I'm not sure Sherlock's father exists, or at least, I wonder if Sherlock is the one that Watson has been dealing with (she's never seen or talked directly with his father). 

Coincidentally, we just watched the British show "Sherlock", and we were wondering if this CBS show would ever have Moriarty make an appearance. Then he does (in name only so far).


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Well done!


That was kind of a "d'oh!" moment, the same as I had when I saw the opening of the first episode of _Sherlock_


Spoiler



where we are in Afghanistan


 and said "How'd we get here? ... oh, right."


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> I'm guessing it's a yet to be seen character. Although Moriarty being daddy and killing Irene would be interesting.


That's the main reason I am thinking it is the dad. Killing Sherlock's only love seems really personal.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I still like the BBC series better. It's on Netflix streaming. If you like Elementary, check it out.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> I still like the BBC series better. It's on Netflix streaming. If you like Elementary, check it out.


Did you have to go there?

When I'm watching Elementary, I want to enjoy it for what it is.

And when I'm watching Sherlock, I want to enjoy Sherlock for what it is.

I like both. It doesn't have to be a contest.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

mdougie said:


> That's the main reason I am thinking it is the dad. Killing Sherlock's only love seems really personal.


Not only that, but whoever killed Irene did not want to kill Sherlock. If it was simply because of the thrill of the chase, there would have been no need to kill Irene. So there had to have been a deeper connection to Sherlock to want to keep him alive. And perhaps that connection was a familial one.

Perhaps his dad gained his wealth by running an organization of assassins, and when he saw that his son was getting too close to one of them, needed a way to throw him off the trail.

And then, to tie up lose ends as well as give his son some closure, he sent the assassin he had framed for Irene's murder to Sherlock to be caught.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> I still like the BBC series better. It's on Netflix streaming. If you like Elementary, check it out.


I have that to watch in my queue. I was debating between this and Downtown Abbey when I finish West Wing.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I have that to watch in my queue. I was debating between this and Downton Abbey when I finish West Wing.


FYP. 

Whichever one you watch first, you'll want to watch the other one eventually.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

This thread really should not contain spoilers since it is not labeled as an episode or season thread.

Someone has started a season 1 thread, here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=499466


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

There's a link in that thread steering people over here. 

Careful, or we'll get stuck in a thread loop.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

murgatroyd said:


> Did you have to go there?
> 
> When I'm watching Elementary, I want to enjoy it for what it is.
> 
> ...


This.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

murgatroyd said:


> Did you have to go there?
> 
> When I'm watching Elementary, I want to enjoy it for what it is.
> 
> ...


They didn't exactly say "Quit watching the CBS show and switch to the BBC one", they said if you like this one you should check out the other as well, you might like both.

And it is a contest, but it's between all of them and the original A.C. Doyle stories.

The shows can be different from the stories, but they'd better be deserving of the use of the character.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I have that to watch in my queue. I was debating between this and Downtown Abbey when I finish West Wing.


Why do you have to watch only one at a time?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Why do you have to watch only one at a time?


I guess I don't, but it's mostly because I am watching a bunch of other stuff on regular tv - BBT, Modern Family, Survivor etc, that I get myself hooked into watching one new series that I hadn't seen before via netflix.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

unitron said:


> They didn't exactly say "Quit watching the CBS show and switch to the BBC one", they said if you like this one you should check out the other as well, you might like both.
> 
> And it is a contest, but it's between all of them and the original A.C. Doyle stories.
> 
> The shows can be different from the stories, but they'd better be deserving of the use of the character.


I don't mind an intelligent discussion of the differences between the shows and the original stories, if we could have one. But what I see too often on TCF is people coming into a show thread and saying "I like [the other show] better." and nothing else.

In one of Tim Gunn's books, he says:



> I ask my students [at Parsons School of Design] to please not use the phrases "I like it," and "I don't like it," because, frankly, who cares what you like? Allow yourself to make a distinction between what appeals to you and what works for you. ... The critique should be about the qualities and/or inadequacies of what you see.


He goes on to tell about an incident where one of his fellow faculty members said that he wouldn't wear the menswear shown in a student fashion show. Tim's response: "Well, the students didn't design it with you in mind as the customer."

We aren't design students or film/TV students, so perhaps this is going too far, but when you say "I like this / I don't like this" without any further expression of what elements you like or don't like about the two shows, it's just a thread-crap. It implies that it's not worth talking about the thing you don't like as well.

So that's why I'm losing my patience with posts like that. TB's post wasn't the only one, but if everybody who likes Sherlock better comes and says "I like Sherlock better, you should watch it" in all the Elementary threads, we won't be able to sustain any discussion of Elementary.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Did anybody else think that M was Moriarty until they made it clear? I thought "he seems way too thuggish for someone who's supposed to be a master criminal".


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I guess there shouldn't be spoilers in this thread, though it's almost moot at this point. 


Spoiler



M wasn't Moriarty. Moriarty hired "M."


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yes, I know&#8230; "until they made it clear".


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

I think the show is getting better with each passing week.

Moriarty is Sherlock's dad. Mark it!


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

I would say the show has stuck pretty close to the original Holmes, and I'd be surprised if Moriarty is his dad. He'll definitely be a 'Professor' of some sort, and obsessed with Sherlock, but I don't see the dad thing.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

billypritchard said:


> I would say the show has stuck pretty close to the original Holmes, and I'd be surprised if Moriarty is his dad. He'll definitely be a 'Professor' of some sort, and obsessed with Sherlock, but I don't see the dad thing.


So when does Mycroft show up?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

unitron said:


> So when does Mycroft show up?


See the Season 1 thread for Elementary:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=499466


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

whitson77 said:


> I think the show is getting better with each passing week.
> 
> Moriarty is Sherlock's dad. Mark it!


Dude marked it last week, but I agree, and glad I am not the only one that thinks so.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

whitson77 said:


> Moriarty is Sherlock's dad. Mark it!


No way!


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

billypritchard said:


> I would say the show has stuck pretty close to the original Holmes, and I'd be surprised if Moriarty is his dad. He'll definitely be a 'Professor' of some sort, and obsessed with Sherlock, but I don't see the dad thing.


His father was never even a character that is discussed at lengths in the works by SACD. So it has varied a great deal already.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

One thing I forgot to mention about the last episode&#8230; I realize this is a total nitpick, and trying to talk about realism in ANY fictional show is kind of silly.. but it's the thing that jumped out at me that made me suspend disbelief..

It seemed ridiculous that someone in NY, even assuming everyone has cable or satellite, would be able to just watch (British) soccer at any time of a day going to a random person's house.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

This is not the appropriate thread to discuss episodes of Elementary.

Here is the season 1 thread for Elementary:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=499466


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

I just started watching this.

Is Aidan Quinn (the actor playing the police captain) related to Richard Widmark?

The voice is almost identical.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I love the show... gets better every week!


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Still one of my favorites.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Elementary is coming back in April, and on Monday!

Elementary Season 6 and Code Black Season 3 Premiere Dates Are Finally Set


> _Elementary_ Season 6 will premiere on April 30, moving to a brand-new time slot - Mondays at 10/9c (after _Scorpion_'s season has wrapped). In November, the network expanded the midseason drama's run from 13 episodes to a full-ish 21.


If I'm doing the math correctly, April 30 and 21 episodes makes it a summer series. But no complaints, I like this show, and I'll take 21 episodes any time.

Also like the Monday night move. Sundays can fill up with cable shows, whereas Monday is a little slower.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I bet it does better on Monday too. This is good news.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Been wondering what happened to this season. Glad to hear there’s a date for its return. And that they’re making pretty much a full season’s worth of episodes.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Oh awesome, I didn't realize it was raised to 21 eps.. So then that means it's less likely this is the last season??


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mattack said:


> So then that means it's less likely this is the last season??


Every season is its last season. I have no idea how it keeps getting renewed. Ratings are meh.

[Aside: Actually, I do. I read where Elementary is huge in overseas syndication, enough money to pay to keep making them. I have no idea why, but I'm not complaining!]


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> I bet it does better on Monday too. This is good news.


I don't even know what its normal night was, and I've watched it from the start!


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I am not 100% certain where it started - I think it was a weeknight at 10 - then they moved it to Sundays at 10 and it started late most of the time as most Sunday night CBS shows tend to do. I had it padded by 90 minutes most of the time!!!


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

It was Thursday @ 10 for the first several seasons.


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## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

We've really enjoyed the show, but the writing has been all over the map and seems to go many directions.
And being off air for a year or so does tend to kill interest. I mean, my God, its not Doctor Who ...


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I hope they do more case of the week episodes and less of the season long storytelling arc stuff.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Looks like I didn't mention this before.. On a video game podcast (Waypoint Radio, several of them used to be at Giant Bomb if you've ever heard of that too -- the latter has a great podcast going back to 2008 with a full feed available -- but they talk about lots of random stuff along with video games), I finally heard someone else say they liked Elementary better than Sherlock.. I've watched a couple episodes of Sherlock and think I have all of the others recorded.. and will eventually watch them.. I also posted this on Quora at one point and now we have at least 3 people in the world who agree.

People just rave about Sherlock, I just think Elementary is more entertaining.. and you could probably use disparaging "American broadcast TV" descriptions to it too.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

IIRC, CBS originally ordered 16 episodes, and had it scheduled as a mid season replacement.

Then Jeremy Piven had his revelations and Wisdom of the Crowd wasn't doing too well in the ratings department, so CBS extended the Elementary order to 21.
At one point, they were going to cancel Wisdom and start Elementary earlier, but I think the Piven problem actually increased viewership of Wisdom, so they are letting it play out.

Odd that it's been moved to Monday's now, I thought it was just going to replace Wisdom on Sundays.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I like Elementary a lot, but IMO Sherlock is much, much better. Just sayin'. 

I don't know if it would apply as well if they ever did more than four eps of Sherlock every few years, and the last season of Sherlock did get a bit strange. But still, it's a better show.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Sherlock and Elementary have different approaches and styles. I think they’re both good and enjoy them both. I can see someone liking one over the other. While they share the same characters and stories, to me it’s an apples to oranges comparison. So I don’t see how someone can say one is better than the other.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

and I prefer Elementary a TON more than Sherlock. 
I watch Sherlock, but it always feels like a chore.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I like Sherlock better, but I like that I can get a lot more Elementary in the same time frame.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I'm glad it's coming back because I like _Elementary_, but I'm also glad they're letting _Wisdom of the Crowd_ play out. I kinda enjoy that show.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

laria said:


> I'm glad it's coming back because I like _Elementary_, but I'm also glad they're letting *they let* _Wisdom of the Crowd_ play out. I kinda enjoy that show.


FYP. 

Last night's episode was the final one they had filmed. And the show won't be renewed.

I enjoyed Wisdom of the Crowd, and would have loved to see where they took it.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

astrohip said:


> FYP.
> 
> Last night's episode was the final one they had filmed. And the show won't be renewed.
> 
> I enjoyed Wisdom of the Crowd, and would have loved to see where they took it.


Ah, I figured it was close to done.  I didn't watch last night's yet, but I knew it wasn't coming back.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

phox_mulder said:


> Then Jeremy Piven had his revelations and Wisdom of the Crowd wasn't doing too well in the ratings department, so CBS extended the Elementary order to 21.
> At one point, they were going to cancel Wisdom and start Elementary earlier, but I think the Piven problem actually increased viewership of Wisdom, so they are letting it play out.


That's funny.. I like Wisdom a lot.. Though I was wondering how they'd continue if they solve the daughter's murder.. (They could turn it into a "cop case of the week suing Sophe".) But I was trying to think of what shows had successfully kept going once the 'main mystery' of the show was solved.

I like Elementary more, so if I had to choose, I'd pick it.. But both are very entertaining.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

laria said:


> Ah, I figured it was close to done.  I didn't watch last night's yet, but I knew it wasn't coming back.


Wait, I thought the post I replied to implied it isn't 100% cancelled.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

mattack said:


> Wait, I thought the post I replied to implied it isn't 100% cancelled.


He meant they let the season finish up rather than pull it immediately.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

laria said:


> He meant they let the season finish up rather than pull it immediately.


Correct.
CBS cancelled it when the Piven story broke and were going pull it from the schedule, but they then opted to air the episodes they had already payed for, rather than losing money they already spent.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Good for that (airing them), but bummer about cancelling it.

Gee, maybe in 20 years we'll get a remake that flops.. (like Cupid!)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

In season 6, episode 5, "Bits and Pieces", we find out who/what/why of the crime.. but do we find out:


Spoiler



Why he has the head?



I totally don't remember seeing an explanation for that, which is what started the plot rolling.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Answering the above question.



Spoiler



He broke on to the facility to get proof because he solved the case, but his post-concussion syndrome made him forget everything.



--Carlos V.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I'm slightly unspoilering it.. but it seems like he could have just written himself a note or something, done something else to prove he solved the case, than the extreme thing he did.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Haven't finished the latest episode.. but if it was product placement in the latest episode.. it worked.. Highly doubtful it was paid, since it's an old band, but I'd never heard of the band "The Jam" before.. the song playing at the beginning was really good. Will likely eventually buy the album with that song on it. ($6.99 digital.)


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

"Town Called Malice". Yes, that's an absolute banger. Glad you found them


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Though that was supposed to be what he was listening to, right? Sure wouldn't seem like a song he'd listen to.. heck, I'd imagine him only listening to classical music.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Finally caught up on the current episodes - happy to hear it has been renewed for a Season 7 - in some episodes it felt a little bit like we were heading for a series finale with the US Marshall job and the adoption sub-plot - - - still have no idea why it feels like they are doing a summer burnoff...

I think I may have asked this before - but - I'm gonna ask again - 
Didn't someone give Watson an apartment/condo at the end of last season? Was that ever mentioned or did they just skip over it to have her living in the Brownstone?


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I think there was a threat against Watson so she moved back in with Sherlock.
/shrug


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Glad to hear it's renewed. This is one of my favorite shows and it was making me nervous having it on in the summer.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

And it's done...

Elementary Cancelled After 7 Seasons

It had a good run, and honestly, every time it was renewed I was (happily) surprised. All good things must pass.

_[minor rant: it wasn't "cancelled", it wasn't renewed]_

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_Elementary_'s forthcoming seventh season will be its last, CBS announced Monday.

"A lot of parties came together and talked about their positions on the show - both in terms of business and in terms of creative - and we all decided that this was an opportune time to say goodbye to a show that has been very, very good to us," CBS Entertainment President Kelly Kahl said in a statement to our sister site Deadline.

Added EP Carl Beverly: "[Series creator] Rob [Doherty] set out to tell a story, and it feels like he has accomplished what he had set out to do. The actors, the crew and the cast feel that way, and we feel that. So are grateful and celebrating what we had and looking forward to the future."

The show's sixth season ended with Sherlock (Jonny Lee Miller) and Joan (Lucy Liu) relocating to the UK. "When we come back in the seventh season, a year will have passed," Doherty previously revealed to TVLine. "So all of our characters will have had time to really reflect on what happened at the end of the sixth season."

Production on Season 7 wrapped last week; CBS has yet to announce a premiere date.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I can't say I'm surprised. And it's probably time to wrap things up. I thought this most recent season was very good, and I hope they tie things up nicely to close out the show.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I am surprised at the timing. They just finished producing season 7. And they cancel it now, before they see how it is received? Seems weird not to wait until at least a few episodes have aired.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

eddyj said:


> I am surprised at the timing. They just finished producing season 7. And they cancel it now, before they see how it is received? Seems weird not to wait until at least a few episodes have aired.


Sounds like everybody involved is simply done with it.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I was surprised it even got renewed. I kind of assumed it was renewed with the idea it would definitely be the last season. I hope Natalie Dormer returns, I think a final season focusing on her (Moriarty.) Sherlock's father Morland, and the criminal organization that Morland Holmes now controls but Moriarty founded.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

robojerk said:


> I was surprised it even got renewed. I kind of assumed it was renewed with the idea it would definitely be the last season. I hope Natalie Dormer returns, I think a final season focusing on her (Moriarty.) Sherlock's father Morland, and the criminal organization that Morland Holmes now controls but Moriarty founded.


Right. I can see various scenarios:
1) Saying "this is the last season" before filming it. This allows them to bring it to a nice conclusion.
2) Producing the season and leaving the renewal as a possibility. This way they can make the decision once they see what the ratings look like.

What is weird is the in-between:
3) Produce it without deciding whether it would be renewed, and then ending it before showing any episodes.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

eddyj said:


> Right. I can see various scenarios:
> 1) Saying "this is the last season" before filming it. This allows them to bring it to a nice conclusion.
> 2) Producing the season and leaving the renewal as a possibility. This way they can make the decision once they see what the ratings look like.
> 
> ...


Then again, they brought it to a nice conclusion last year. There's no reason they couldn't have done so again this season...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

our cbs local is re-airing eps each sunday late-night, i'm recording, and surprised i'm enjoying the series just as much the second time around, maybe more - even with the obvious shortcomings, it really is a great series.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I have a feeling they knew this was it, even before CBS made their decision. So I'm gonna guess they wrapped it up with a nice bow for us. Somehow.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

A little more info...

'Elementary' to End With Season 7 on CBS

The Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu drama has been a cash cow for producers CBS TV Studios.

CBS' lowest-rated drama is ending. The forthcoming seventh season of _Elementary _will be its last, _The Hollywood Reporter _has confirmed.

The series, which has been a bubble show for the past few seasons, has wrapped production on its final run of 13 episodes. The final season, which is set to air in 2019, will bring _Elementary_ to its natural end. Production on the show starring Lucy Liu and Jonny Lee Miller wrapped Friday.

The Sherlock Holmes drama has been a cash cow for producers CBS Television Studios, with foreign sales and a Netflix deal helping to keep it running as long as it did. Despite dwindling linear returns, _Elementary_ scored a 13-episode seventh season renewal in May, which ranked as one of the biggest surprise pickups of the 2018 upfront season.

Last year at this time, _Elementary _was left off the network's midseason schedule and held for late spring as a bridge between the end of the traditional broadcast season and into the summer programming, where ratings expectations were not as important. CBS ultimately handed out an additional eight-episode order to bring its total to 21, the first time the procedural didn't get a full 24-episode season.

With production having wrapped, sources note that the plan was to always end _Elementary_ with season seven as contracts for stars Miller and Liu - both in-demand actors - were coming to an end. The show will conclude with an impressive 154 episodes. A premiere date for season seven has yet to be determined, as it was recently left off CBS' midseason schedule (for the second year in a row).


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

eddyj said:


> 2) Producing the season and leaving the renewal as a possibility. This way they can make the decision once they see what the ratings look like.


Playing the devil advocate, does CBS keep the cast under contract while they decide if a renewal as a possibility or is the cast released from contract so they can seek employment elsewhere?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Their contracts are up.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I'm a bit surprised it's coming back. The way season 6 ended felt like that was it.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

nirisahn said:


> I'm a bit surprised it's coming back. The way season 6 ended felt like that was it.


Honestly I think I would have rather had them end with what they did then do one more half season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pkscout said:


> Honestly I think I would have rather had them end with what they did then do one more half season.


Although it depends on what they do with the half-season...which they had to suspect even more than last year would be the final one.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

pkscout said:


> Honestly I think I would have rather had them end with what they did then do one more half season.


Just delete your season pass and you'll have the same result!


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> Just delete your season pass and you'll have the same result!


I knew someone would recommend that. 

I'm too much of a Type A personality to just not watch the last season. I'll just have to trust (perhaps against mounds of evidence in the form of series not renewal after a season finale cliff hanger) that we'll get 13 good episodes that will bring the story to a decent conclusion.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I've liked all of the other seasons, so I don't expect anything different for the last season.


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