# S3 Bug List



## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Are there any known bugs that were found in the Series3 yet?

1. Search By Title - I (as well as others) have noticed that Search By Title is slow. When you start to spell out what you want, each letter is shown quickly... but the list updates a bit on the slow side; maybe 3-5 seconds per letter. This can also be seen if you choose a sub-category (like Movies) and want to page down the list. Each page down takes about 3-5 seconds to register on the list (the command is instantly recognized).


2. If I change channels from an OTA digital station to an analog cable station the receiver loses audio sync (complete sound loss). However, if I go back to an OTA digital station, audio is still just fine (if I repeat and go back to analog cable, sound is still gone). Also, tivo sounds go away, and analog cable shows in "now playing" also do not play audio. OTA digital shows recorded and played back in now playing will play with audio just fine.

To fix the problem I do the following: on an analog station or in tivo menus when there is no sound, I switch DSP modes on the receiver (ie, DD to Logic7) and audio returns (forcing the receiver to reacquire the digital signal). 

3. Yahoo apps bug - Another one (mentioned in another thread). Yahoo apps don't work...or I should say, you must log in each time you use them. 

3a. Yahoo photos hung. (Eventually it went back to LiveTV on its timeout.) 

4. Audio cutting out - Is anyone experiencing problems with audio cutting out occasionally? Today I've had it happen on a couple of channels. It's really short (less than a second), and isn't happening frequently, but enough to notice. I'm not sure if this is actually in the broadcast (seems unlikely, since I've seen it on two channels, but I didn't notice it earlier today on other channels), or something with the TiVo or something with the cable signal, or what.

I also noticed some glitches (both audio and video cutting out) in one of the programs I recorded, but I attributed it to a signal problem at the time. But now I'm starting to wonder

5. I inadvertantly shut down my UPS, which the S3 is hooked to. The next time I switched channels, I noticed that TiVo had re-set itself to "Native" output. I had previously set it to "1080i fixed". Apparently rebooting and/or powering down causes this setting to reset.

6. The case of my S3 buzzes/vibrates intermittantly.

7. Not sure if this qualifies as a bug, but if you change the closed captioning setting on a prerecorded program, you get dumped out to Now Playing rather than resuming the program automatically. Also, the "CC" logo is always lit up, even if no closed captioning is available.

8. No network setup in guided setup. It never gave me a chance and decided to use DHCP, which happens not to be the right thing on my network.

9. Trying to rerun guided setup caused a reboot.

10. The grid guide is painfully slow.

11. I setup a Season Pass for Smallville with the option for First Run only. Not only did it record an old episode it recorded 2 of them.

12. A show that was in my season pass list was recorded twice at the same time one show shows up in my HD folder and the other one not. Why Why Why?!

13. I had The Amazing Race setup for a season Pass. I start watching it late last night and the show stopped recording 7 minutes into the episode. WHY WHY WHY?!?!?! Good thing I decided to hold onto the crap DVR from cablevision until I was sure everything worked. I actually had to watch it from my crap DVR. 

14. Live TV button sometimes works; sometimes doesn't - OK, I'm having the same problem I reported on yesterday. SOMETIMES (not all the time) when I hit the "Live TV" button, it brings up the program guide instead of switching tuners (like it's supposed to). The aggravating thing is that it's inconsistent...sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Can anyone check this out to see if they have a similar problem? 




etc...


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## rehr0001 (Sep 17, 2006)

Here's one:

Just got mine today hooked up as follows:
analog cable and OTA (waiting for cable cards)
component (hdmi to dvi used on moto dvr currently and only have 1 cable)
optical digital audio output
TV Pioneer Pro530HD
Receiver Harmon Kardon AVR8000
Output set to Dolby Digital

Problem:
If I change channels from an OTA digital station to an analog cable station the receiver loses audio sync (complete sound loss). However, if I go back to an OTA digital station, audio is still just fine (if I repeat and go back to analog cable, sound is still gone). Also, tivo sounds go away, and analog cable shows in "now playing" also do not play audio. OTA digital shows recorded and played back in now playing will play with audio just fine.

To fix the problem I do the following: on an analog station or in tivo menus when there is no sound, I switch DSP modes on the receiver (ie, DD to Logic7) and audio returns (forcing the receiver to reacquire the digital signal). 

I've owned this receiver for 3.5 years and had several devices hooked up to it with the optical audio inputs and this has never happened. Its really weird that when the signal is lost on the analog stations that everything OTA still works great without switching DSP modes, but in order to get back audio in the menus or on analog station requires a change in DSP modes.

Anyone else have this problem? Any ideas as to what could be going wrong?


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

rehr0001 said:


> Here's one:
> 
> Just got mine today hooked up as follows:
> analog cable and OTA (waiting for cable cards)


Out of curiousity, how long did it take to do the guided setup once you had the device cabled up?

Thank you,

Scott


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

a minute or two for me, very quick. Took much longer to turn off the channels I don't want to be bothered with.

Brett


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

Haven't played too much with it... but there are 2 bugs that I have noticed.

1) CableCard Setup - This may not necessarily be a bug, but when the installer first puts the Cable Card (doesn't matter if it is #1 or #2), you need to wait for the S3 to recognize it and have its setup initialize. Just because the software gives you the CC Configure screen doesn't mean that it is ready to go. Best to wait about 30 more seconds or so, unless you like your BP rising! 

2) Search By Title - I (as well as others) have noticed that Search By Title is slow. When you start to spell out what you want, each letter is shown quickly... but the list updates a bit on the slow side; maybe 3-5 seconds per letter.
This can also be seen if you choose a sub-category (like Movies) and want to page down the list. Each page down takes about 3-5 seconds to register on the list (the command is instantly recognized).

So far ... that's it from me. Neither are show-stoppers for me, just annoyances (especially #2).

Jeff


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Another one (mentioned in another thread). Yahoo apps don't work...or I should say, you must log in each time you use them.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

My unit and at least one other here had problems with the remote sensor. Can't speak for the other one, byt my Tivo seemed to buffer the commands. It wouldn't respond, then responded to two or three at a time. From an engineering perspective this indicates a problem in generating (likely) or responding to (less likely) the interrupt that tells the Tivo software that a command from the remote has been received. If more than one unit has this problem it could be some bad chips or bad moboard connection. Of course when you turn in your bad unit to BB, they don't write much, if anything, down.

In my case just swapping out the unit fixed it.


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## TiVoToo (Sep 12, 2006)

My unit will not tune to 2 of the local OTA digital channels. My other 3 HDTV tuners have no problem. It is not a problem of signal strength. For one channel, the problem is that the S3 does not assign a channel frequency, and for the other, the problem is that the S3 won't data lock. I'm working with TiVoJerry on first problem. I am located in Orange County, Florida just east of the Orlando city limit. If you live in the CF area, have an S3, and have an antenna attached to the S3, I would be very interested if you are experiencing the same problem. Tune to 35-1 and 27-1 and let me know if you get video/signal on neither, one, or both of these channels. Be sure that you are tuning to (ant) 35-1 and (ant) 27-1, NOT (cbl) 35-1 or (cbl) 27-1.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Oh, these "bugs" being listed are problems with the retail versions of the S3. The ones being shipped from Tivo directly to VIP users will be *flawless*!!!!


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

My primary bug is the audio dropout issue I started a thread about.


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

besides HMO (I know...) 

if you have local HDTV from cable and a cable SDTV channel - for some reason why search by name it only shows the title tha is in SD, I have to use the grid to select a season pass. not the end of the world... BUT that is what I hated about my SA8300 - I wanted tivo  


maybe I'm just being too picking and looking for a reason to save $800 and switch back to the SA8300??? I know my wife wants me to and she is the one that was cool at spending the 800 in the first place. as she says its a semi-tivo-sa8300 and the 8300 seemed to me more reliable. (my S3 has needed to be rebooted twice from a lockup once last night and again about 5 min ago; and a couple of recordings are out of sync audio wise)


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## ahaley42 (Sep 12, 2006)

I seem to be having problems with the S3 scaling 720p content to 1080i across the component output. Guess I better go get that SXRD I've been eyeing. Sorry honey, it just won't work! I have to! If Tivo could just write my wife an email saying that I would appreciate it.


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## Omnius (May 30, 2006)

Two days in a row now I have woke up to find the Tivo outputing 480p fixed when I specifically set it to 1080i fixed. I think it might be related to reboots, because this morning I also noticed my 30s skip wasn't working and had to be re-entered.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Omnius said:


> Two days in a row now I have woke up to find the Tivo outputing 480p fixed when I specifically set it to 1080i fixed. I think it might be related to reboots, because this morning I also noticed my 30s skip wasn't working and had to be re-entered.


If you restart the box yourself, what happens to the resolution?


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Are there any known bugs that were found in the Series3 yet?
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> ...


1. S3 not responding to the remote.

2. Searching for a program shows results in only one channel. the SD, but not the HD channel. Hence, it is harder to create a Season Pass on the HD channels.

I am not sure if they are bugs, but they are indeed problems I am having at this moment.

When I had the remote control problem I exchanged the next day at my local BB store. Last night, the second unit I got from them started to show the very same problem. Today, it is working normal. No idea what could it be.


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

vstone said:


> My unit and at least one other here had problems with the remote sensor. Can't speak for the other one, byt my Tivo seemed to buffer the commands. It wouldn't respond, then responded to two or three at a time. From an engineering perspective this indicates a problem in generating (likely) or responding to (less likely) the interrupt that tells the Tivo software that a command from the remote has been received. If more than one unit has this problem it could be some bad chips or bad moboard connection. Of course when you turn in your bad unit to BB, they don't write much, if anything, down.
> 
> In my case just swapping out the unit fixed it.


Very same problem here. Identical


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

nandopr said:


> 2. Searching for a program shows results in only one channel. the SD, but not the HD channel. Hence, it is harder to create a Season Pass on the HD channels.


Did you recently rerun Guided Setup? It may take a while to index the new guide data.


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

Roderigo said:


> Did you recently rerun Guided Setup? It may take a while to index the new guide data.


Hello..Yes, I did.


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

nandopr said:


> 1. S3 not responding to the remote.
> 
> ...
> 
> When I had the remote control problem I exchanged the next day at my local BB store. Last night, the second unit I got from them started to show the very same problem. Today, it is working normal. No idea what could it be.


Uh oh- sounds very similar to the Comcast Motorola 6412 remote-button-queuing delay bug?!?  (box gets behind, doesn't respond to remote pushes for minutes, then bam bam catches up on all the presses)

Does it eventually catch up (maybe after few minutes)? Or just stop responding entirely? Does it happen during ffwd/rewinding or while box is busy (eg both tuners on HD, etc.)

If this is truly the same/similar issue (maybe since S3 has similar CPU/hardware to Moto box?), then a HUGE pain-in-the-a** problem vs 6412 isn't fixed, and a big reason lots of people dumped the 6412 for $$$ S3 might still be annoying us


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Just to back up what's already been said, I've noticed these things too:

1. Slow remote response on a few occasions - box stops responding, resumes. Almost like when your mouse on your PC locks up for a short time - something seems to be delaying it, then it "catches up". Yep, the commands seemed to be buffered.

2. Search by Title seems to be laggy. I'm pretty sure my box is done indexing - it's been up since Sat. at 8am.

3. Yahoo apps don't save login info.

4. I inadvertantly shut down my UPS, which the S3 is hooked to. The next time I switched channels, I noticed that TiVo had re-set itself to "Native" output. I had previously set it to "1080i fixed". Apparently rebooting and/or powering down causes this setting to reset.

5. The case of my S3 buzzes/vibrates intermittantly.

On the upside, I'm recording football in HD, and it looks beautimous.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> My unit and at least one other here had problems with the remote sensor. Can't speak for the other one, byt my Tivo seemed to buffer the commands. It wouldn't respond, then responded to two or three at a time.





> 1. S3 not responding to the remote.





> My unit and at least one other here had problems with the remote sensor.





> Very same problem here. Identical





> 1. Slow remote response on a few occasions - box stops responding, resumes. Almost like when your mouse on your PC locks up for a short time - something seems to be delaying it, then it "catches up". Yep, the commands seemed to be buffered.





> If this is truly the same/similar issue (maybe since S3 has similar CPU/hardware to Moto box?), then a HUGE pain-in-the-a** problem vs 6412 isn't fixed, and a big reason lots of people dumped the 6412 for $$$ S3 might still be annoying us


I have to second that.

The DVR function lag and "queuing up of commands" is one of the most irritating aspects of the Motorola 6412, which uses the same Broadcom chipset as the Series3. It makes fast forwarding and skipping through commercials much more difficult and less reliable.

I really hope that this can be fixed, because this is not acceptable in an $800 product.


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## Sepia (Jan 5, 2002)

To the OP (MediaLivingRoom). Please keep editing your initial post, consolidating real verified bugs up top.

Thanks,

- Sepia


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

Not sure if this qualifies as a bug, but if you change the closed captioning setting on a prerecorded program, you get dumped out to Now Playing rather than resuming the program automatically. Also, the "CC" logo is always lit up, even if no closed captioning is available.

Also, there's no way to zoom HD programming on the TiVo--you can zoom stuff recorded at 4:3, but not 16:9 (even if it's an idiot station letterboxing within the 4:3 area).

I haven't noticed any button lag on my unit, but maybe it's just better than my other TiVos (my Humax DVD-R is particularly laggy).


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## doopstr (Nov 13, 2004)

I really hope the delay bug isn't the same problem the 6412 has. Hopefully they fix that.

The delay bug and the crappy guide of the 6412 are the two main reasons why I would buy an S3. Looks like I will just wait until Comcast offers the Tivo software on the 6412 to see how that works out. I was actually hoping that the Tivo software would fix the delay problem on the 6412.


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

cgould said:


> Uh oh- sounds very similar to the Comcast Motorola 6412 remote-button-queuing delay bug?!?  (box gets behind, doesn't respond to remote pushes for minutes, then bam bam catches up on all the presses)
> 
> Does it eventually catch up (maybe after few minutes)? Or just stop responding entirely? Does it happen during ffwd/rewinding or while box is busy (eg both tuners on HD, etc.)


Yes, it catches all the presses, others time it just do nothing, sometimes i just sent one command and the S3 respond like 2 or 3 commands was send.

Like I said in my original message, today is working fine, but i decided to go to Best Buy again (for the second time) and exchanged.

Now I will need to call the cable company so the installer can come and do the same installation of the cable cards. I can do it, but I know they will say no and charge me again. Maybe this is the price that some of the early buyers like me pay because I did not wait some time.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

When I push the "Live TV" button on the peanut while watching live TV, it gives me the program guide. What's up with that? True, when you're watching a recorded program, when you press it, it does take you to live TV. But I thought when you hit that button while watching live TV, it was supposed to take you to the other tuner?


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> When I push the "Live TV" button on the peanut while watching live TV, it gives me the program guide. What's up with that? True, when you're watching a recorded program, when you press it, it does take you to live TV. But I thought when you hit that button while watching live TV, it was supposed to take you to the other tuner?


It is supposed to switch to the other tuner. Mine does. Odd.


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## TiVoToo (Sep 12, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> When I push the "Live TV" button on the peanut while watching live TV, it gives me the program guide. What's up with that? True, when you're watching a recorded program, when you press it, it does take you to live TV. But I thought when you hit that button while watching live TV, it was supposed to take you to the other tuner?


This thread will explain how to fix the problem. Solution worked for me.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Now it's really strange. I just tried it after shutting everything off and turning it back "on" and it worked. Very odd. Oh, well, as long as I know it's now working. Thanks.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> When I push the "Live TV" button on the peanut while watching live TV, it gives me the program guide. What's up with that?


As I said in the other thread, the TiVo may need to be persuaded that you have a remote with a LiveTV button. You do that by hitting the TiVo button.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

1. No network setup in guided setup. It never gave me a chance and decided to use DHCP, which happens not to be the right thing on my network.

2. Trying to rerun guided setup caused a reboot.

3. Yahoo photos hung. (Eventually it went back to LiveTV on its timeout.)


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## MikeO (Jan 24, 2001)

I am coming from DirecTivoHD HD10-250

When I setup my SP for Stargate SG1 and Atlantis I setup for FIRST RUN only.

I noticed in the TODO list that it was going to record repeats.. and a lot of them.


My DirecTivo only recorded the first runs.. and my SA8300HD only does first runs too.


How accurate is the Tivo Guide (tribune) ???

I really don't like the idea of this Series 3 recording repeats when they are repeats.. 


mike


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## R. Kalia (Apr 16, 2002)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> 8. Also, there's no way to zoom HD programming on the TiVo--you can zoom stuff recorded at 4:3, but not 16:9 (even if it's an idiot station letterboxing within the 4:3 area).


I don't think that's a bug. The station is filling out the 16:9 HD picture with black pixels. The picture IS zoomed so it fills up the screen, but part of the picture is a black border. If TiVo (or your TV) tried to always eliminate black borders, that would screw up scenes where a black frame is intentional.

To do what you want, you'd need a manual zoom feature, but you'd have to redo it on each program and channel change.


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## cmepasu (Sep 15, 2006)

one that i have noticed is that no matter how many times i have set the display to "bright" it always reverts to dim...hard to view the time from across the room


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MikeO said:


> ...I really don't like the idea of this Series 3 recording repeats when they are repeats....


Huh? Why not?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Huh? Why not?


I think he means that when set to record New only, it will still record all the other showings of that particular episode during the week. Happens a lot on cable nets like SciFi, USA, etc.

When that happens I've usually set it to record once a week and that seems to avoid recording all the duplicates.


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## MikeO (Jan 24, 2001)

keenanSR said:


> I think he means that when set to record New only, it will still record all the other showings of that particular episode during the week. Happens a lot on cable nets like SciFi, USA, etc.
> 
> When that happens I've usually set it to record once a week and that seems to avoid recording all the duplicates.


Doh! that is what I meant.. long day!

according to TiVo and many others it shouldn't record the re-runs when you have the "First Run only" in your SP. It checks based on the OAD "Original Air Date" which shows a PAST date and it shouldn't record but it is...

Might be a bug.. as someone in this thread confirmed that their S2 didn't do what my s3 is doing.

m


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

Update...


Today I went for the third time to Best Buy to exchange the S3 because of the remote control problem. There is something unquestionably wrong with some units. What could it be? No idea. This new one I got today (the third unit I have within four days) stopped responding completely to the remote control. I must point out that the remote never have problem controlling my TV, the problem is only with the S3.


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## AVSman (Mar 17, 2006)

1. Add me to the list of people experiencing problems with the S3 not responding to commands from the remote. In addition to be the cueing/catching up problem already described in this thread, sometimes commands are not received at all (as opposed to just being received but cued up and executed all at once). When this occurs, the orange dot doesn't light up on the front of the S3 when I press the remote buttons. Are others seeing this, too? This happens often enough on my S3 that it is BORDERLINE UNUSABLE. (This occurs both when I use the S3 remote and when I use my Harmony 880.)

2. Also, one of my tuners (Tuner 0, according to the Diagnostics screen) can't tune some of my analog cable channels like 6, 8, 10, 12, etc. (I haven't tested all of them but it appears to be the lower even number channels). I thought this could be a signal strength issue, so I removed my surge suppressor and coax splitter from the equation, and ran the coax directly from the wall to the S3. Same problem (the "No Signal" message). Tuner 1, however, CAN tune these channels. Could this be a software issue? Or is this particular S3 defective? (Note: I'm not using CableCards yet.)

BTW, I restarted the S3 multiple times, and also left it unplugged for a few minutes, but these problems persist. They are dealbreakers for me. This box is going back to Circuit City, after I figure out how to get my $199 lifetime transfer refunded. :down:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: these problems were apparently caused by interference from my plasma tv. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4388604&&#post4388604


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

MikeO said:


> according to TiVo and many others it shouldn't record the re-runs when you have the "First Run only" in your SP. It checks based on the OAD "Original Air Date" which shows a PAST date and it shouldn't record but it is...
> 
> Might be a bug.. as someone in this thread confirmed that their S2 didn't do what my s3 is doing.


I'm having issues with this too (as I posted in the other thread; just commenting here for additional verification).

As I posted in the other thread:

I checked the Original Air Date on some episodes of Million Dollar Listing. I have it set to "first run only." It recorded two episodes today. One of them has Original Air Date 8/29/2006, one has Original Air Date 9/5/2006. This doesn't seem like the right behavior. Certainly not the behavior I desire, and not how I remember it working on the Series 1 and Series 2...


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

This is really starting to scare me! I just paid $790 Thursday and mine shows it will be delivered tomorrow by Fedex from CC. Can some people confirm that the remote works fine and have no problems or is everyone getting this same bug? I'm wondering if I should refuse the shipment and get a refund or take my chances but it seems lots of people are having this problem but no one seems to be posting that they haven't had any remote problems at all. It's a lot of money to pay and have problems like that  

-Joe


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

My remote works fine, without any trouble at all (both the original TiVo remote and my Harmony 880). 

The only real problems I have are:

1. Occasional audio dropouts. These have been pretty infrequent, and I've had none at all today.
2. The Season Pass/Guide Data issue I just described. Annoying, but it certainly doesn't make the TiVo unusable.

I don't consider either of these to be showstoppers. I'm overall happy with the S3's performance and reliability.


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

nandopr said:


> Update...
> 
> Today I went for the third time to Best Buy to exchange the S3 because of the remote control problem. There is something unquestionably wrong with some units. What could it be? No idea. This new one I got today (the third unit I have within four days) stopped responding completely to the remote control. I must point out that the remote never have problem controlling my TV, the problem is only with the S3.


Ok, this is really crazy!...

When I raise the S3, like 45 degrees (sideway) and hold it like that the unit does not have a problem at all. But when it goes back to the horizontal position, the unit stops working again. Can someone try this?


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

nandopr said:


> Ok, this is really crazy!...
> 
> When I raise the S3, like 45 degrees (sideway) and hold it like that the unit does not have a problem at all. But when it goes back to the horizontal position, the unit stops working again. Can someone try this?


Maybe it's something with the transparency of the plastic in front of the IR sensor? I'm not even sure where the IR sensor is, but I presume it's somewhere in the front panel display. You did take off the protective plastic sticker, right?


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## Krellion (May 17, 2002)

The playback not starting when watching LiveTV and changing channels problem I started a thread about and others have mentioned having also seen.


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

sharding said:


> Maybe it's something with the transparency of the plastic in front of the IR sensor? I'm not even sure where the IR sensor is, but I presume it's somewhere in the front panel display. You did take off the protective plastic sticker, right?


Yes, I did.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Maybe something is blocking or interfering with the IR receiver? Try using a different location for the S3 and see if that helps.

-Joe


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

Thought it was just me ...

I've also had the situation where the Series3 does not respond to the remote. You point the remote at the Series3, the remote light goes on, but the light on the Series3 does not go on. It's happened 3 times in last couple of days. After a minute or so all is fine.

Now I thought this was a problem that I created but maybe not.

I also still have the DirecTV HR10 in the same room so I changed the remote codes to be separate. I thought this was the problem. When the problem occurs, if I point the HR10 remote at the Series3, the Series3 light goes on, and then the Series3 remote starts working again.


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## rehr0001 (Sep 17, 2006)

I'm not having any issues with my remote


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Nor I.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Neither am I, other than trying to figure out how to run both the S3 and the HR10-250 in the same room with a Harmony 880.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

nandopr said:


> Ok, this is really crazy!...
> 
> When I raise the S3, like 45 degrees (sideway) and hold it like that the unit does not have a problem at all. But when it goes back to the horizontal position, the unit stops working again. Can someone try this?


Is there ANYTHING electronic running nearby? I know some things can interfere with IR (such as those plasma type lighting thingies). If this remote is a little weaker, maybe it's more susceptible. Just throwing it out there.


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## Krellion (May 17, 2002)

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but when I place my S3 in Standby, the front display turns off (yeah, I know some people would like the clock to stay on), but the buttons on the right side stay lit up.

I'm not too picky about this, since I usually don't put the unit on Standby.

There is an option in the menus to turn them off, but it also turns off the recording indicator lights. There really should be two separate options, or this should not affect the recording lights at all.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

keenanSR said:


> ... run both the S3 and the HR10-250 in the same room...


I really thought the remote problem was related to having the HR10 remote being used in the same room.

Others with the remote problem also have another TiVo in the room?

When I point the other remote (with a different code) at the Series3 the problem went away.


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## timmetro69 (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm running into the sluggish laggy remote issue myself. 

I have a related question and possible theory:

My 42" plasma TV is less than 12 inches to the right of my S3. Is it possible that my TV is somehow interfering? I never had any trouble with my SA 8300HD DVR that was in the same location, but I remember seeing something about plasma-friendly IR repeaters so I thought I'd ask.


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## AVSman (Mar 17, 2006)

Sixto said:


> I really thought the remote problem was related to having the HR10 remote being used in the same room.
> 
> Others with the remote problem also have another TiVo in the room?
> 
> When I point the other remote (with a different code) at the Series3 the problem went away.


Yes, but the other TiVo was unplugged when I was setting up the S3, and it had this remote problem right out of the box. Maybe it smelled that an S2 was in the same room!


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## AVSman (Mar 17, 2006)

timmetro69 said:


> I'm running into the sluggish laggy remote issue myself.
> 
> I have a related question and possible theory:
> 
> My 42" plasma TV is less than 12 inches to the right of my S3. Is it possible that my TV is somehow interfering? I never had any trouble with my SA 8300HD DVR that was in the same location, but I remember seeing something about plasma-friendly IR repeaters so I thought I'd ask.


Not to compare sizes, but my 50" plasma is also within 12" of my S3. Maybe I'll move it to another location and test it out again before returning it.

Still having that channel signal/tuning problem on Tuner 0...


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## nandopr (Jun 6, 2003)

NJChris said:


> Is there ANYTHING electronic running nearby? I know some things can interfere with IR (such as those plasma type lighting thingies). If this remote is a little weaker, maybe it's more susceptible. Just throwing it out there.


You are correct

I have a fluorescent lamp close to the S3, and have a LCD TV. I turn off the lamp, the S3 was working sometimes. Then, with the lamp still off, I moved the LCD TV to the side so there were not external light getting close to the sensor of the S3. It was working fine. I turn the lamp back on and place the LCD TV the way it was before and the unit did not respond.

Did the fallowing test

I covered with one hand the area above the clock to do some test, (to create some sort of shadow for the sensor) while a friend was pressing the remote. When I cover the area above the clock with my hand, I had no problem with the unit at all. When I withdraw the hand, the problem came back. Look like the sensor is very sensitive, well, hence the name sensor.

Go figureNow that I think about it, I problem never show during the day.

Thank you for the hint. Maybe others here may resolve their problem too.


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## Mahty (Jan 6, 2006)

cmepasu said:


> one that i have noticed is that no matter how many times i have set the display to "bright" it always reverts to dim...hard to view the time from across the room


I don't think that this is a problem. Whenever I want check the time, for example, I just hit the INFO button and the display brightens for a few seconds.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Sixto said:


> I really thought the remote problem was related to having the HR10 remote being used in the same room.
> 
> Others with the remote problem also have another TiVo in the room?
> 
> When I point the other remote (with a different code) at the Series3 the problem went away.


I'm sorry, my post was a bit confusing. My S3 doesn't have any remote problems, so far anyway, I was referring to trying to get a Harmony to control both devices and I have since solved that problem.

Regarding the remote problem being discussed here, I'm guessing you used new batteries and not the ones that came in the box?


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

Mahty said:


> I don't think that this is a problem. Whenever I want check the time, for example, I just hit the INFO button and the display brightens for a few seconds.


It's apparently not a bug, but I'd argue that it's a misfeature. At the very least, there should be a preference for how long it should stay bright. Ideally, I'd like it to stay bright all the time (with the dimming remaining an option for those who like it). It's nice to be able to see the time without having to pop an info box over the show I (and others in the room) am watching.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

timmetro69 said:


> I'm running into the sluggish laggy remote issue myself.
> 
> I have a related question and possible theory:
> 
> My 42" plasma TV is less than 12 inches to the right of my S3. Is it possible that my TV is somehow interfering? I never had any trouble with my SA 8300HD DVR that was in the same location, but I remember seeing something about plasma-friendly IR repeaters so I thought I'd ask.


My S3 is right next to my plasma. Swapping it out fixed the problem.

The IR sensor is most likely connexted to a serial port. This port buffers the received data until emptied. It is emptied when the software responds to a hardware interrupt. For some reason the interrupt is either not being generated correctly or not being serviced quickly.


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## joey398 (Dec 6, 2002)

I got my Tivo from Best Buy over the weekend (since the one I ordered from the VIP site didnt come) and had Cablevision install 2 cards on Sunday and set them up.

I saw 4 problems.

1. The audio definatly does drop for less than a second periodicially (I was watching Live TV on HD channel - did not check a paused view or recorded one yet). I also thought it was the broadcast, but reading the forum just verified this as an issue.

2. I setup a Season Pass for Smallville with the option for First Run only. Not only did it record an old episode it recorded 2 of them.

3. A show that was in my season pass list was recorded twice at the same time one show shows up in my HD folder and the other one not. Why Why Why?!

4. I had The Amazing Race setup for a season Pass. I start watching it late last night and the show stopped recording 7 minutes into the episode. WHY WHY WHY?!?!?! Good thing I decided to hold onto the crap DVR from cablevision until I was sure everything worked. I actually had to watch it from my crap DVR.


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## rehr0001 (Sep 17, 2006)

More than likely someone stopped the recording by changing the channels or something.

You can go into the "to do list", look at previous recordings, and it will tell you why it stopped.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

OK, I'm having the same problem I reported on yesterday. SOMETIMES (not all the time) when I hit the "Live TV" button, it brings up the program guide instead of switching tuners (like it's supposed to). The aggravating thing is that it's inconsistent...sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Can anyone check this out to see if they have a similar problem?


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> OK, I'm having the same problem I reported on yesterday. SOMETIMES (not all the time) when I hit the "Live TV" button, it brings up the program guide instead of switching tuners (like it's supposed to). The aggravating thing is that it's inconsistent...sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Can anyone check this out to see if they have a similar problem?


I haven't had that happen yet. If you keep pushing "Live TV" over and over, does it exhibit both behaviors, or does it seem like there's something else factoring in to which it does? I can try it a bunch of times, but if that doesn't even reproduce it for you, it's probably a waste of time


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sharding said:


> I haven't had that happen yet. If you keep pushing "Live TV" over and over, does it exhibit both behaviors, or does it seem like there's something else factoring in to which it does? I can try it a bunch of times, but if that doesn't even reproduce it for you, it's probably a waste of time


It exhibits the same behavior (in other words, it remains on the program guide). This isn't a dealbreaker for me since I can swap tuners by accessing the info screen. But it's extra steps and an annoyance. If it keeps happening, I'll contact TiVo CS (after the smoke clears!).


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## GT1Boy (Mar 23, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> It exhibits the same behavior (in other words, it remains on the program guide). This isn't a dealbreaker for me since I can swap tuners by accessing the info screen. But it's extra steps and an annoyance. If it keeps happening, I'll contact TiVo CS (after the smoke clears!).


Bierboy, this issue is already mentioned and answered earlier in this thread. The "Live TV" command that your Harmony remote is sending to the Series 3 is not exactly the same as the command from the S3 remote. You'll want to have your Harmony learn the "Live TV" button from the S3 remote to fix this. Here's a thread about it:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316782


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## timmetro69 (Jun 11, 2002)

vstone said:


> My S3 is right next to my plasma. Swapping it out fixed the problem.
> 
> The IR sensor is most likely connexted to a serial port. This port buffers the received data until emptied. It is emptied when the software responds to a hardware interrupt. For some reason the interrupt is either not being generated correctly or not being serviced quickly.


When you say you swapped it, do you mean you moved it farther from the plasma, or you returned it and got a different S3?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> OK, I'm having the same problem I reported on yesterday. SOMETIMES (not all the time) when I hit the "Live TV" button, it brings up the program guide instead of switching tuners (like it's supposed to).


I haven't experienced that. Though that makes me wonder if we all have the same software versions. I had at least one update over the last month.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

GT1Boy said:


> Bierboy, this issue is already mentioned and answered earlier in this thread. The "Live TV" command that your Harmony remote is sending to the Series 3 is not exactly the same as the command from the S3 remote. You'll want to have your Harmony learn the "Live TV" button from the S3 remote to fix this. Here's a thread about it:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316782


Nope....same thing happens with the TiVo remote.


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## GT1Boy (Mar 23, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Nope....same thing happens with the TiVo remote.


So press the TiVo button a couple times on the S3 remote and then press LiveTV on S3 remote, your S3 doesn't switch tuners the next time your press LiveTV? I have the same thing happen when I use my Pioneer TiVo remote but pressing the TiVo button on the S3 remote makes the LiveTV button function properly. It doesn't even matter that the S3 and remote is set to device 1 and the Pioneer and remote is set to device 2. The S3 apparently receives the IR from my Pioneer remote or your Harmony and changes to the old remote mode Dan203 refers to in the other thread.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

GT1Boy said:


> So press the TiVo button a couple times on the S3 remote and then press LiveTV on S3 remote, your S3 doesn't switch tuners the next time your press LiveTV? I have the same thing happen when I use my Pioneer TiVo remote but pressing the TiVo button on the S3 remote makes the LiveTV button function properly. It doesn't even matter that the S3 and remote is set to device 1 and the Pioneer and remote is set to device 2. The S3 apparently receives the IR from my Pioneer remote or your Harmony and changes to the old remote mode Dan203 refers to in the other thread.


Nope....tried that too. It's been posted in another thread that it's possible the reason is that both tuners are on the same channel. I'll check into that when I get home later today.


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## joey398 (Dec 6, 2002)

rehr0001 said:


> More than likely someone stopped the recording by changing the channels or something.
> 
> You can go into the "to do list", look at previous recordings, and it will tell you why it stopped.


No one did anything, I live alone with my Tivo. Only thing I was able to think of was a power failure, but all my HT stuff is plugged into a UPS, and besides nothing was "blinking" on my other home appliances.

I will take a look at the history when I get home, I had forgotten about that.


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## Mahty (Jan 6, 2006)

joey398 said:


> 4. I had The Amazing Race setup for a season Pass. I start watching it late last night and the show stopped recording 7 minutes into the episode. WHY WHY WHY?!?!?! Good thing I decided to hold onto the crap DVR from cablevision until I was sure everything worked. I actually had to watch it from my crap DVR.


Is it possible that during the recording of TAR you were using the remote for your Cablevision DVR and unbeknowst to you the generic DVR commands were being received and acted upon by both DVRs and some command sequence caused the S3 to stop recording?

I had to read up about setting the DVR switch on the my two TiVo remotes in order to program my S2 and S3 DVRs/remotes so as not to have this problem.


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## joey398 (Dec 6, 2002)

Mahty said:


> Is it possible that during the recording of TAR you were using the remote for your Cablevision DVR and unbeknowst to you the generic DVR commands were being received and acted upon by both DVRs and some command sequence caused the S3 to stop recording?
> 
> I had to read up about setting the DVR switch on the my two TiVo remotes in order to program my S2 and S3 DVRs/remotes so as not to have this problem.


Nope, I was not using any remote (either my Harmony or my new S3 one). I have not reprogramed my harmony yet. I am waiting to make sure all is well first. I actually was not even home during the recording times.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

joey398 said:


> 2. I setup a Season Pass for Smallville with the option for First Run only. Not only did it record an old episode it recorded 2 of them.


Inaccurate (or missing) guide data? If there's no description, TiVo will assume it's first run... better to record a rerun than nothing at all.



> 3. A show that was in my season pass list was recorded twice at the same time one show shows up in my HD folder and the other one not. Why Why Why?!


It didn't record twice. HD programming shows up both in the HD folder, and also in Now Playing (or the appropriate program folder).

Incidentally, this is based on guide data, not the program itself (unlike the 720p/1080i information); for example, the Auburn-LSU game on Saturday wasn't listed as being in HDTV, so it didn't show up in the HD folder -- however, it was broadcast in HD.



> 4. I had The Amazing Race setup for a season Pass. I start watching it late last night and the show stopped recording 7 minutes into the episode. WHY WHY WHY?!?!?! Good thing I decided to hold onto the crap DVR from cablevision until I was sure everything worked. I actually had to watch it from my crap DVR.


What does recording history say?


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## AVSman (Mar 17, 2006)

AVSman said:


> 1. Add me to the list of people experiencing problems with the S3 not responding to commands from the remote. In addition to be the cueing/catching up problem already described in this thread, sometimes commands are not received at all (as opposed to just being received but cued up and executed all at once). When this occurs, the orange dot doesn't light up on the front of the S3 when I press the remote buttons. Are others seeing this, too? This happens often enough on my S3 that it is BORDERLINE UNUSABLE. (This occurs both when I use the S3 remote and when I use my Harmony 880.)
> 
> 2. Also, one of my tuners (Tuner 0, according to the Diagnostics screen) can't tune some of my analog cable channels like 6, 8, 10, 12, etc. (I haven't tested all of them but it appears to be the lower even number channels). I thought this could be a signal strength issue, so I removed my surge suppressor and coax splitter from the equation, and ran the coax directly from the wall to the S3. Same problem (the "No Signal" message). Tuner 1, however, CAN tune these channels. Could this be a software issue? Or is this particular S3 defective? (Note: I'm not using CableCards yet.)
> 
> BTW, I restarted the S3 multiple times, and also left it unplugged for a few minutes, but these problems persist. They are dealbreakers for me. This box is going back to Circuit City, after I figure out how to get my $199 lifetime transfer refunded. :down:


I wanted to post an update to my situation. I moved my S3 one shelf lower in my entertainment center, and it appears BOTH problems are gone!!! A big :up: to those who suggested the issue could be interference from other equipment, especially from plasmas. I was doubtful this would fix the second issue above, but it appears to have done so.

(Tangent)
This is what is so great about online forums. I was going to run out and return my S3 to Circuit City, but I thought I'd post here and see what others thought first. Thanks again everybody!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Nope....tried that too. It's been posted in another thread that it's possible the reason is that both tuners are on the same channel. I'll check into that when I get home later today.


Checked to see if both tuners were on the same channel...they weren't but Live TV button still brought up the program guide. I tried hitting the TiVo button, THEN tried Live TV twice, and it then worked. But I've tried that before and it's been inconsistent. So it still seems to be a bug, though a minor one in the grand scheme.


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## pablop (Oct 3, 2002)

Mahty said:


> Is it possible that during the recording of TAR you were using the remote for your Cablevision DVR and unbeknowst to you the generic DVR commands were being received and acted upon by both DVRs and some command sequence caused the S3 to stop recording?
> 
> I had to read up about setting the DVR switch on the my two TiVo remotes in order to program my S2 and S3 DVRs/remotes so as not to have this problem.


My recording of the amazing race also stopped by itself 15 minutes before it was scheduled to do so...I missed the end of the show.


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## joey398 (Dec 6, 2002)

quango said:


> What does recording history say?


I checked the recording history it had no entry in it for The Amazing race. So my guess would be hardware. I will watch and see what happens, this week have tons of premiers recording so perhaps it will reappear.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

This isn't truly a bug, but unless someone can explain the reasoning why it's not done I think it ought to be.

Why doesn't the TiVo PG note what programs you have scheduled to record? I have to deal with this on the HR10-250 and it's always bugged the heck out of me. I have to go all the way to the To-Do-List to see what recordings are scheduled.

The Dish 622 and the Comcast Motorola PGs both have little icons next to the program title indicating the program is scheduled to be recorded. Having a visual image makes it waaaay easier to see what's happening, or what's going to happen.

Is this a deficiency of the PG info provider? Something that TiVo can't work into the data?

Just curious.


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## SLCMike (Nov 18, 2003)

timmetro69 said:


> When you say you swapped it, do you mean you moved it farther from the plasma, or you returned it and got a different S3?


I second this question! I believe that I'm having similar trouble:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317405

Does anyone know whether I can go into a brick and mortar CircuitCity to return / swap my TiVo if I ordered via CircuitCity online?


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## joey398 (Dec 6, 2002)

Well I found out why my recording of The Amazing Race only recorded 7 minutes. I had the same problem tonight while I was watching a recorded show.

This is definatly because of the unit rebooting/restarting.

I actually saw this happen.

Here is what was happening. I had recorded Prison Break. I was watching it, and happened to see a commercial regarding some new show. I rewound a little so I could watch it. I saw the Tivo Thumbs up mark in the upper right. I went ahead and hit the thumbs up...about 1-2 seconds later screen goes grey/black...I'm like WTF?!?! Sure enough the Tivo is restarting....Welcome screen up.

When this happened....the Tivo box was also recording Vanished. When the unit finally came back up, it did not even continue recording the show Vanished. I sort of remembering the Tivo Series 1 would actually restart recording wherever it was when the system came back on.

Anyway....so this has happened two times since Sunday. Once a day so far. This is not giving me warm fuzzies.


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

joey398 said:


> Well I found out why my recording of The Amazing Race only recorded 7 minutes. I had the same problem tonight while I was watching a recorded show.
> 
> This is definatly because of the unit rebooting/restarting.


This sounds like a hardware problem to me. I've had mine running since Friday, and it has never rebooted unprovoked that I know of (and I've been using it a *lot* -- pretty much all day both weekend days -- and doing a lot of recordings).


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## heatzeker (Sep 18, 2006)

My TiVo 1 and 2 just couldn't get the Arizona time zone right (no DST). :down: I was happy to see that the Tivo 3 got it right, but the front of the box has a different time displayed! 10:08PM on the screen is correct, but 9:08PM on the front of the box is not...

All things considered, I'm happy with my TiVo 3, and excuse their shipping problems because I'm a loyal fan.  

Let's just see how smoothly my transfer of my lifetime service goes tomorrow though...


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

heatzeker said:


> My TiVo 1 and 2 just couldn't get the Arizona time zone right (no DST). :down: I was happy to see that the Tivo 3 got it right, but the front of the box has a different time displayed! 10:08PM on the screen is correct, but 9:08PM on the front of the box is not...


I think someone in this thread, or another thread said a reboot will solve this problem.


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## snathanb (Sep 13, 2006)

SLCMike said:


> I second this question! I believe that I'm having similar trouble:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317405
> 
> Does anyone know whether I can go into a brick and mortar CircuitCity to return / swap my TiVo if I ordered via CircuitCity online?


Absolutely. That's why I ordered mine from them, in case I didn't like it. However, right now I'm not sure if they have gotten any of them in stores yet.


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## JolDC (Dec 21, 2001)

OTA HD and Analog Cable Only
Panasonic SA-XR55 AV receiver

1. *Can't turn off both AV receiver and TV with the TiVo TV Power button. * Went through all the steps I do with my S2 remote. S2 remote will turn off both AV receiver and TV following the same steps. Same codes used for both. S3 remote will control the receiver volume and mute using that code. Set the TV power first using the TiVo button & TV Power button. Works. Used the TiVo button & TV Power button again, using the receiver code (1200) and it will not turn receiver off.

2. *Disappearing season passes and wishlists.* I set up about 50 season passes and wishlists last night after setting up the S3 (after it received its normal 2 weeks guide data). Also got the software update, but I held off on the restart because it was recording things. The restart happened overnight, as expected. Got another TiVo connection around 4:30 this morning. All my wishlists and over half my season passes disappeared. Cannot confirm if they disappeared before or after the 4:30ish connection. Additionally, I had 2 season passes that I never created. Hoped it was just an indexing issue, I added back the must have recordings for this afternoon, and left it until after work. When I got home, the season passes and wishlists were still missing. I entered them again.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sharding said:


> I checked the Original Air Date on some episodes of Million Dollar Listing. I have it set to "first run only." It recorded two episodes today. One of them has Original Air Date 8/29/2006, one has Original Air Date 9/5/2006. This doesn't seem like the right behavior. Certainly not the behavior I desire, and not how I remember it working on the Series 1 and Series 2...


What's the time limit for TiVo considering something a first-run episode? Those might be recent enough to qualify...

(I know a lot of the cable shows I have season passes to are being picked up on my S3, and it took me a moment to remember that when they were recorded before, it was on my other TiVo!)


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What's the time limit for TiVo considering something a first-run episode? Those might be recent enough to qualify...
> 
> (I know a lot of the cable shows I have season passes to are being picked up on my S3, and it took me a moment to remember that when they were recorded before, it was on my other TiVo!)


I think it's 28 or 30 days..??


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

keenanSR said:


> I think it's 28 or 30 days..??


Yes, 28 days is what was said in another thread about this. That does explain it for the case I described above, and may explain all of the other issues I've been having. However, I'm still not completely sure it's working right. This is my third TiVo, and the first time I remember getting so many duplicates and reruns recorded on a first-run season pass. Unfortunately, I've been really busy for the last few days, and will be for most of the rest of the week, so I haven't had time to really look at exactly what's happening. I'm holding off on claiming it's a bug until I've had time to gather some more data.


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## skweaz (Feb 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Checked to see if both tuners were on the same channel...they weren't but Live TV button still brought up the program guide. I tried hitting the TiVo button, THEN tried Live TV twice, and it then worked. But I've tried that before and it's been inconsistent. So it still seems to be a bug, though a minor one in the grand scheme.


Bierboy, I am having the same issue on mine, LiveTV brings up the guide, but it is inconsistent.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

skweaz said:


> Bierboy, I am having the same issue on mine, LiveTV brings up the guide, but it is inconsistent.


Interesting, now, that I have not had the problem the past day or so. I don't know what the issue or solution is, but I did hit the TiVo button, and it seems to "right" itself. Every time I've tried it since yesterday (which, admittedly, has only been a few times), it's worked OK. This may be something TiVo does need to look into.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Another one (mentioned in another thread). Yahoo apps don't work...or I should say, you must log in each time you use them.


Odd, they work correctly for me.


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## JolDC (Dec 21, 2001)

JolDC said:


> OTA HD and Analog Cable Only
> Panasonic SA-XR55 AV receiver
> 
> 1. *Can't turn off both AV receiver and TV with the TiVo TV Power button. * Went through all the steps I do with my S2 remote. S2 remote will turn off both AV receiver and TV following the same steps. Same codes used for both. S3 remote will control the receiver volume and mute using that code. Set the TV power first using the TiVo button & TV Power button. Works. Used the TiVo button & TV Power button again, using the receiver code (1200) and it will not turn receiver off.
> ...


After further research, #2 (disappearing SP and WL) was my fault. While trying to figure out my first problem, I followed the instructions in the guide to reset the remote codes. In addition to removing the TV and receiver functions, it also divorces the 1-2 DVR switch codes. So, while I was working through my S2 to clean up SPs that I moved to the S3, I was unknowingly wreaking havoc on my S3. We are currently in counseling and I am begging my HD partner for forgiveness.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

megazone said:


> Odd, they work correctly for me.


Several people have reported problems (having to log in every time - not saving log in info). I'll try again when I get home from work today...maybe it's been fixed.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I'll have to try them again too - maybe it broke for me now. 

The account info is stored on the server, not the S3, so it is odd that it broke on the S3 - unless it isn't sending some token the server uses to identify the box.


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## alee (Mar 24, 2002)

My S3 seems to have a problem remembering it's remote addressing. I have the S3 set to DVR1 and the S2 set to DVR2. Yesterday, mysteriously, the S3 went back to address 0. I set it back to 1 again, but will keep an eye on it.


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## ejennis (Mar 5, 2002)

heatzeker said:


> My TiVo 1 and 2 just couldn't get the Arizona time zone right (no DST). :down: I was happy to see that the Tivo 3 got it right, but the front of the box has a different time displayed! 10:08PM on the screen is correct, but 9:08PM on the front of the box is not...
> 
> All things considered, I'm happy with my TiVo 3, and excuse their shipping problems because I'm a loyal fan.
> 
> Let's just see how smoothly my transfer of my lifetime service goes tomorrow though...


I can confirm that a reboot fixes this issue. I was annoyed that the clock was not showing the correct time, despite the fact that the system information screens showed the correct time for call dates etc. I forced the connection to get the software update then forced a reboot and the external clock display fixed itself.

-Eric


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## sommerfeld (Feb 26, 2006)

One more for the bug list.

See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317774 for details.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm surprised ML didn't list the price, no MRV, and no TiVoToGo as bugs too. He mentions that in every other post he's made in the last week.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

pkscout said:


> I'm surprised ML didn't list the price, no MRV, and no TiVoToGo as bugs too. He mentions that in every other post he's made in the last week.


hee heee


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Here's one.

I just got off the phone with the cable co. to upgrade the channels I receive. Went to the S3 to see if they were turned on yet.

The S3 is recording a show, but it's not responding to the remote AT ALL, so I started mashing the buttons on the front of the S3 itself. It's not responding to the buttons on the box, either. It's completely locked, but displaying Live TV and the front panel shows what's being recorded. The IR light blinks like it's receiving signal, but the box is locked.

Must wait until it stops recording and pull the power cord I guess.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

what software version is current- and what version are people having these bugs with?

Seems those would be relevent factors.

My box seemed to DL a new software version last night. (was pending restart when I went to bed- would have rebooted it myslef but it was recording something)


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm working off of 8.0.1a-01-2-648, which I think I got last weekend. Right out of the box, I believe it was the same version minus the "a".


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

megazone said:


> I'll have to try them again too - maybe it broke for me now.
> 
> The account info is stored on the server, not the S3, so it is odd that it broke on the S3 - unless it isn't sending some token the server uses to identify the box.


mega - it still does not remember my user name and password. Just tried it again. Every time I back out of a Yahoo app (in this case weather), and go back in, it requires me to enter everything again.


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## Mahty (Jan 6, 2006)

alee said:


> My S3 seems to have a problem remembering it's remote addressing. I have the S3 set to DVR1 and the S2 set to DVR2. Yesterday, mysteriously, the S3 went back to address 0. I set it back to 1 again, but will keep an eye on it.


I think I have the same problem.

Two days ago I successfully set my S2/S3/remotes like alee did. Now today, each of the two remotes simultaneously controls both TiVo units, regardless of the DVR switch setting on the remote.

System information on each box still indicates that S2 is DVR2 and S3 is DVR1.

So have BOTH boxes somehow reverted back to DVR0 (the universal DVR receiver)? Or have BOTH remotes somehow reverted back to DVR0 (the universal DVR transmitter)? Or what?

Very strange. I'll try to troubleshoot some.

Edit: Well, it seems that my problem was localized to the S3. (I had misinterpreted the meaning of the yellow response light on the TiVo units.) As with alee's situation, however, my S3 did indeed seem to have forgotten its DVR1 pogramming from two days ago. I reprogrammed it and I will keep an eye on it.


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## bocktar (Sep 24, 2001)

I'd like to add "intermittent high latency in network apps" like live365, wordsmith, samegame, etc.

While using these apps, TiVo will stall out for up to a minute, and then catch up on all remote keypresses once the stall is complete.

Also, can this thread get a sticky? There are a lot of small bug threads getting started as of late.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd like to add bad overshoot correction and funky skip back behaviour with highly compressed video. My cable company is sending very overcompressed SD (even worse than DirecTV), when I'm 3x FFWDing and I hit play I end up a long way overshot where I pressed play, the correction doesn't seem to work very well with such compressed data. It works as expected with reasonable HD channels.

With the overshoot I have to hit the skip back several times (like 5-6 times), and I'm not sure its working very well with this overcompressed video. If I hit the button quickly it doesn't always seem to actually skip. I need to let it catch up a bit before skipping. Overall, its making FFWD a little frustrating.


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

Is anybody else seeing this behavior? I watched a show (the "Understanding" series from Discovery Science), had four in the folder, left arrow, selected "Delete now", drops me back into "Now Playing" and it says "there are no more of this program, the folder will be deleted. Where did the other 3 go? I've had one other show that disappeared under mysterious circumstances, neither myself or the wife claims to have deleted it, but it's goneso....

Brett


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## alee (Mar 24, 2002)

bferrell said:


> Is anybody else seeing this behavior? I watched a show (the "Understanding" series from Discovery Science), had four in the folder, left arrow, selected "Delete now", drops me back into "Now Playing" and it says "there are no more of this program, the folder will be deleted. Where did the other 3 go? I've had one other show that disappeared under mysterious circumstances, neither myself or the wife claims to have deleted it, but it's goneso....


Were the other 3 shows suggestions? If so they're in your suggestions folder still.


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## aressa (May 9, 2002)

Here's a real minor one:

I had the S3 on Standby last night, and this morning one of the front panel "Recording" lights was on (with the box still in standby). When I woke it up, the clock on the front panel came on but the name of the show did not come up on the front panel (though it was marked as recording in the Now Playing list.


I have a feeling that it only updates the front panel when the recording status changes AND it is awake.


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## AVSman (Mar 17, 2006)

aressa said:


> Here's a real minor one:
> 
> I had the S3 on Standby last night, and this morning one of the front panel "Recording" lights was on (with the box still in standby). When I woke it up, the clock on the front panel came on but the name of the show did not come up on the front panel (though it was marked as recording in the Now Playing list.
> 
> I have a feeling that it only updates the front panel when the recording status changes AND it is awake.


Was it a scheduled recording or a Suggestion? The name of the show is not displayed if it's recording a Suggestion...


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## aressa (May 9, 2002)

AVSman said:


> Was it a scheduled recording or a Suggestion? The name of the show is not displayed if it's recording a Suggestion...


I am fairly sure it was a scheduled show (not 100% though).

_Update_: It was a Suggestion. *Crisis Averted!*


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I had something weird happen when going through channels last night. It went from live tv to the cable card screen with the #'s saying I needed authorization and to hit clear to exit. I exited the screen and it never came back. Is this a bug or something with my cable company?

-Joe


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## missiontortilla (Sep 26, 2006)

I have found several things:

1) The "Native" output setting is practically useless because switching channels with different video formats causes my Samsung TV to lose the connection with the TiVo for 30 seconds or so before video comes back. I have been using 1080i Fixed, and that seems to be working better.
2) The yahoo not remembering login information bug kills me.
3) The game with the colored cirlces forgets high scores.
4) If I type in 004 to go to channel 4, shoudn't it go to 004-1 if available? That is what my Samsung TV's built in ATSC tuner does. 
5) I cannot for the life of me get my TiVo remote programmed for my Samsung Receiver.
(maybe not a bug, just frustrating because the TV programming worked fine)
6) When it is recording a TiVo suggestion, why doesn't it show the title on the front display?


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## Innerloop (Sep 10, 2000)

missiontortilla said:


> I have found several things:
> 
> 6) When it is recording a TiVo suggestion, why doesn't it show the title on the front display?


I noticed that too. I don't think its a bug, but I sort of wish they hadn't done it that way. I can understand why they DID however. Its nice that there is SOME sort of indication that its not just a normal recording. Their choice is as good as any, I guess. Maybe a title w/o a light would have been my first pick. That way the tuner appears "available" (no light) but I can still see what its recording in case I wouldn't want to disrupt it?


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## SoBayJake (Feb 6, 2002)

joey398 said:


> Here is what was happening. I had recorded Prison Break. I was watching it, and happened to see a commercial regarding some new show. I rewound a little so I could watch it. I saw the Tivo Thumbs up mark in the upper right. I went ahead and hit the thumbs up...about 1-2 seconds later screen goes grey/black...I'm like WTF?!?! Sure enough the Tivo is restarting....Welcome screen up.


Count me in for this one too. Can't remember what I was watching, but a "thumbs up" to a commercial brought me to the green menu screen (with the light bulbs, I think), hung there for 15-20 seconds, then rebooted.

I've been afraid to try it since!


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## SoBayJake (Feb 6, 2002)

Innerloop said:


> I noticed that too. I don't think its a bug, but I sort of wish they hadn't done it that way. I can understand why they DID however. Its nice that there is SOME sort of indication that its not just a normal recording. Their choice is as good as any, I guess. Maybe a title w/o a light would have been my first pick. That way the tuner appears "available" (no light) but I can still see what its recording in case I wouldn't want to disrupt it?


Or maybe another color light? Like the Series2 used a blue dot for a transfer in Now Playing. I'm sure they could have used another color to represent a suggestion recording vs. a scheduled recording.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

missiontortilla said:


> I have found several things:
> 
> 1) The "Native" output setting is practically useless because switching channels with different video formats causes my Samsung TV to lose the connection with the TiVo for 30 seconds or so before video comes back. I have been using 1080i Fixed, and that seems to be working better.


You can hardly fault the S3 for something that is lacking with your display. Your display apparently does not like input resolution changes. I use "Native" and the changes take maybe 2-4 secs, max.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

keenanSR said:


> You can hardly fault the S3 for something that is lacking with your display. Your display apparently does not like input resolution changes. I use "Native" and the changes take maybe 2-4 secs, max.


Same here; I was using 1080i fixed, but, when I changed to native, the PQ improvement was noticeable (since my Hitachi does a MUCH better job). And, yes, there's a bit of a delay and flickering, but, to me, it's well worth it.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

jrock said:


> I had something weird happen when going through channels last night. It went from live tv to the cable card screen with the #'s saying I needed authorization and to hit clear to exit. I exited the screen and it never came back. Is this a bug or something with my cable company?


I had that happen when my cards were not properly authorized. If you see it again you should probably call the cable company.


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## Bubbette (Sep 26, 2006)

"We are currently in counseling and I am begging my HD partner for forgiveness."

Tivo is very forgiving; he loves you, you know.


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## Bubbette (Sep 26, 2006)

I searched thru but didn't see anyone mention this. I don't even know if it is a bug or an illusion. In setting up recordings on HD channels, my To Do list will show 2 copies of the same recording. When I delete a recording after watching, both "copies" in the To Do List disappear. I haven't really kept track but could this be because I am recording only 1 program in a time slot and their are 2 tuners? That really sounds illiterate but that's what I am with new technology.

I also notice the very slow crawl in not only "Searching by Title" but also "Searching by Time;" modifying my favorite channels list to just the HD channels didn't help to speed things up; it takes forever to scroll through the channels.


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## Bubbette (Sep 26, 2006)

Bubbette said:


> I searched thru but didn't see anyone mention this. I don't even know if it is a bug or an illusion. In setting up recordings on HD channels, my To Do list will show 2 copies of the same recording. When I delete a recording after watching, both "copies" in the To Do List disappear.
> 
> Okay, after posting this, I discovered post #63 and the response to that one at #77. Thanks.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I made my favorites just the HD Channels and it takes forever to load the list when searching by time or channel for me as well.


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## sommerfeld (Feb 26, 2006)

several people have seen behavior where one tuner will fail to pull in a range of (analog) channels, while the other tuner gets the same range just fine.

in my case, one tuner was missing 55 and up last Saturday, and 52 and up except for 64 and 68 today.

megazone saw something similar in a different range of channels.

threads describing similar symptoms:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318339 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318372
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4415934#post4415934


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## tgewin (Jan 28, 2002)

TiVoToo said:


> My unit will not tune to 2 of the local OTA digital channels. My other 3 HDTV tuners have no problem. It is not a problem of signal strength. For one channel, the problem is that the S3 does not assign a channel frequency, and for the other, the problem is that the S3 won't data lock. I'm working with TiVoJerry on first problem. I am located in Orange County, Florida just east of the Orlando city limit. If you live in the CF area, have an S3, and have an antenna attached to the S3, I would be very interested if you are experiencing the same problem. Tune to 35-1 and 27-1 and let me know if you get video/signal on neither, one, or both of these channels. Be sure that you are tuning to (ant) 35-1 and (ant) 27-1, NOT (cbl) 35-1 or (cbl) 27-1.


I've just realized that I'm having what I think is this problem with one channel in Atlanta. Cost me recordings of Runaway and Gilmore Girls so far. AGG!! It can tune perfectly to 43-1, which is mapped to 69-1. It shows a very strong signal for 43-1 in the signal strength meter. If I tune to 69-1 in the signal strength meter, it gives the same strong signal, but the screen stays black. Tuning to 69-1 while watching live tv results in a black screen. Recording History shows GG and Runaway not recorded "because the video signal was unavailable on Antenna In." Guide data looks just fine for 69-1. Video looks just great on 43-1. I assume it's a problem with the channel mapping.

Oh, and if it makes a difference, my HR10-250 is tuning the channel perfectly off the same antenna as 69-1.

It's OTA only. No cable for me. TivoJerry, if you want any more information about my situation, please PM away!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> To fix the problem I do the following: on an analog station or in tivo menus when there is no sound, I switch DSP modes on the receiver (ie, DD to Logic7) and audio returns (forcing the receiver to reacquire the digital signal).


Incidently, this is exactly the fix I apply with my Motorola 3412, when I experience complete sound loss after a FF or REW operation. I suspect this isn't a problem with any of our equipment, but rather an inherent design flaw in the protocol itself.


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## TiVoToo (Sep 12, 2006)

tgewin said:


> I've just realized that I'm having what I think is this problem with one channel in Atlanta. Cost me recordings of Runaway and Gilmore Girls so far. AGG!! It can tune perfectly to 43-1, which is mapped to 69-1. It shows a very strong signal for 43-1 in the signal strength meter. If I tune to 69-1 in the signal strength meter, it gives the same strong signal, but the screen stays black. Tuning to 69-1 while watching live tv results in a black screen. Recording History shows GG and Runaway not recorded "because the video signal was unavailable on Antenna In." Guide data looks just fine for 69-1. Video looks just great on 43-1. I assume it's a problem with the channel mapping.
> 
> Oh, and if it makes a difference, my HR10-250 is tuning the channel perfectly off the same antenna as 69-1.
> 
> It's OTA only. No cable for me. TivoJerry, if you want any more information about my situation, please PM away!


So you are able to tune to DT frequency 43-1 which is mapped to virtual channel 69-1. Video on 43-1, but none on 69-1. Mapping for OTA digital channels is in the PSIP table embedded in the broadcast signal. The S3 does not use this PSIP for the mapping, as it gets its mapping data for OTA digital from the Channel List data provided during Guided Setup. However, the S3 apparently does a strict comparison of the received PSIP with its internal PSIP to ensure that it is using the correct gude data for the channel. If the broadcaster is not following the PSIP standard exactly, the S3 will not tune it because the PSIP tables don't match. The S3 TiVo Engineering reports that it has isolated problem that causes this. It should be fixed in a future service update. For a summary of the problem/fix, see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4399238&&#post4399238


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## SpokaneDoug (Sep 10, 2006)

I've got my new Tivo S3 & Sammy HLR618W set to let the TV deal with the different possible digital signal formats, since the TV gives a much better SD picture than having the Tivo upscale it to 1080i.

But when watching an SD program, if I go to one of the Tivo menus, it then displays only 480 of the 720 horizontal lines on the TV -- the format doesn't change from 480i to 720p.

If I first switch to a channel showing 720p or 1080i material and then go to the menus, it works nicely. Also switching channels via the Tivo works fine, it only happens with the menus.

Is this a bug, or a setup error? Any suggestions?
Edit: I connect the Tivo to the TV via HDMI. It is HCP enabled.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

For some reason the guide is bringing up duplicate local channels. So I go to the guide data and remove the check marks and it's ok. A while later I bring up the guide and their listed again.

Don't know if this has been mentioned or not.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

TiVoToo said:


> However, the S3 apparently does a strict comparison of the received PSIP with its internal PSIP to ensure that it is using the correct gude data for the channel. If the broadcaster is not following the PSIP standard exactly, the S3 will not tune it because the PSIP tables don't match.


My comment would be: "Hey TiVo, don't keep it a mystery.". When you do a channel scan, there ought to be a view log button that chronicles any PSIP sanity checks that fail.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

SoBayJake said:


> Count me in for this one too. Can't remember what I was watching, but a "thumbs up" to a commercial brought me to the green menu screen (with the light bulbs, I think), hung there for 15-20 seconds, then rebooted.
> 
> I've been afraid to try it since!


This bug seems pretty reliable. I was watching a recording of "House" when an ad for "Bones" came on. When the "Thumbs Up to Record" appeard, I hit the "Thumbs Up" button, which took me to a TiVo screen. I selected "Season Pass and other options" another screen started to come up, then the TiVo rebooted. Once it was back up, I went through the same motions and got the same reboot at the same place.

This one shouldn't be too hard to track down.

Is there any way we can report these bugs directly to TiVo, or do we just assume they are reading the forum?


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## Bklyn (Sep 26, 2006)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Are there any known bugs that were found in the Series3 yet?


I think the intermittent loss of HDMI output qualifies as a bug. See:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319295
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319224


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

Watching the local news recording. Finished with program, pressed the left button (Harmony 688), returns to the information screen for that recording. Cycled down to delete and pressed enter. Return to the list and the recording that I just deleted is still there. 

Previously had three recordings, now two, but the one I thought I deleted wasn't gone. Something else was missing, but don't remember what it was.

I don't do drugs, never have.

First time I noticed this and hopefully the last.

Other things that seem quirky:

Audio dropout as others have described, but only when paging through the grid guide.

Video dropout mostly on the above local news recording when they segway from live studio shot to a graphic or an onscene reporter. Comes back in a few seconds. Have tried the various output modes, 1080i being the best, but does not resolve the problem - just faster video return.

Have a Hitachi 42 plasma hooked up via component, tried the hdmi/dvi as well.

No remote problems as other have described, but then using the Harmony may help in that respect.

HD pq is better than the moto 6412.


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## sharding (Feb 11, 2001)

Ok, adding to the list for me. My Series 3 keeps crashing/rebooting. It seems to be hitting something in some recordings or signals which causes it to crash. I've now had it happen at least in live TV on an HD channel and in recordings both on SD (digital) and HD channels. In the recordings, playing the same part of the recording reliably locks up or reboots the TiVo. I now have two recordings sitting on my hard drive that can very reliably make the TiVo crash, from two different channels (one SD and one HD). I think it's happened a couple of times when I wasn't watching too, because my 30-second skip has been reset. Tonight, I missed the end of Survivor because of this (it's recorded, but I can't get to it because it crashes the box).

This really sucks


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

nandopr said:


> ... 2. Searching for a program shows results in only one channel. the SD, but not the HD channel. Hence, it is harder to create a Season Pass on the HD channels. ...


The HD channels are selected in your channel line-up. Correct?


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

nandopr said:


> 2. Searching for a program shows results in only one channel. the SD, but not the HD channel. Hence, it is harder to create a Season Pass on the HD channels.


I went through this with the D* version, it probably is finding the HD versions, you just haven't noticed. Its working correctly, but confusingly.

The HD version and the SD version are the same channel so the program is shown only once. If you want to see both versions you need to look in the upcomming episodes of the program, and it'll show them all.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> This bug seems pretty reliable. I was watching a recording of "House" when an ad for "Bones" came on. When the "Thumbs Up to Record" appeard, I hit the "Thumbs Up" button, which took me to a TiVo screen. I selected "Season Pass and other options" another screen started to come up, then the TiVo rebooted. Once it was back up, I went through the same motions and got the same reboot at the same place.
> 
> This one shouldn't be too hard to track down.
> 
> Is there any way we can report these bugs directly to TiVo, or do we just assume they are reading the forum?


After reading your post, I was watching _BONES_, and I saw the Thumbs Up icon. I tried to reproduce "reboot" issue, but I was unable to. My recording of _BONES_ was in HD. Was your recording of _House_ also in HD? Probably a dumb question, but you never know...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

vman41 said:


> My comment would be: "Hey TiVo, don't keep it a mystery.". When you do a channel scan, there ought to be a view log button that chronicles any PSIP sanity checks that fail.


Gosh, how would my mother interpret and take action on the information in that "chronicle". While some of the set-up can be moderately obscure, routine operations of the TiVo need to be really easy to understand.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

bicker said:


> Gosh, how would my mother interpret and take action on the information in that "chronicle". While some of the set-up can be moderately obscure, routine operations of the TiVo need to be really easy to understand.


If found your way to the channel scan menu, you are way out routine operation anyway.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Doesn't the channel scan have to be done routinely?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

vman41 said:


> My comment would be: "Hey TiVo, don't keep it a mystery.". When you do a channel scan, there ought to be a view log button that chronicles any PSIP sanity checks that fail.


I think it does, sort of, isn't that what's indicated when you get an asterisk next to a channel listing in the scanned list? There doesn't seem to be any explanation for the asterisk but they do seem to correspond to stations with odd channel mapping.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

btwyx said:


> I went through this with the D* version, it probably is finding the HD versions, you just haven't noticed. Its working correctly, but confusingly.
> 
> The HD version and the SD version are the same channel so the program is shown only once. If you want to see both versions you need to look in the upcomming episodes of the program, and it'll show them all.


I think I call this a BUG.

Also the lack of HD filter for wishlists is screwed up too. THe HR10-250 has that, I cant understand how the Series 3 doesn't.

Wishlists seem to not work as well for sports at all with the Series 3.

On my HR10 I had 2 wishlist for baseball;

first to cathch any HD games:
"Teamname AT" in HD catagory.

then to catch SD games when HD didnt exist:

"teamname AT" in live events catagory.

There's no way to pull out the HD with the series 3.

And the general wishlist doesn't seem to pick up the HD RSN for me.

They need to figure somethign out so you can make an HD baseball wishlist/season pass. Seasons over so they have 6 months to get it done for spring....


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## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

When entering an OTA digital channel (e.g., 4-2), the TiVo inserts an underscore after the hyphen and _before_ the final digit (e.g., 4-_2).

The sequence is: Enter 4, see 4 and long underscore. Enter hyphen, see 4- and shorter underscore. Enter 2, see 4-_2. The channel changes correctly.

I admit this problem isn't exactly worthy of being called a "bug," but it's even less worthy of its own thread.


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## nlayton (Sep 16, 2003)

cmepasu said:


> one that i have noticed is that no matter how many times i have set the display to "bright" it always reverts to dim...hard to view the time from across the room


I have the same exact issue, it stays bright for about 20-30 seconds. Just long enough that you take your eyes off of it then it goes dim.


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## nlayton (Sep 16, 2003)

cmepsau said:


> one that i have noticed is that no matter how many times i have set the display to "bright" it always reverts to dim...hard to view the time from across the room





Mahty said:


> I don't think that this is a problem. Whenever I want check the time, for example, I just hit the INFO button and the display brightens for a few seconds.





sharding said:


> It's apparently not a bug, but I'd argue that it's a misfeature. At the very least, there should be a preference for how long it should stay bright. Ideally, I'd like it to stay bright all the time (with the dimming remaining an option for those who like it). It's nice to be able to see the time without having to pop an info box over the show I (and others in the room) am watching.


After more reading...........

Ummmm, Don't take this wrong............. but if you press the info button, the time is already displayed on the banner that pops up. Why would it be setup that way when they already have it on the banner?

It is a BUG! or as some like to call them "Undocumented Features"

BTW: I have no issues with my not remote working and the S3 sits directly on the shelf below my plasma, less than 2 inches away. Live TV button works fine, no spontaneous reboots, I do notice the audio dropping out from time to time but only if I have been pushing buttons, yahoo apps work fine. No mysterious deletes, nothing like eveyone has posted. Knock on wood!!

All in all for the first release of the unit and software, I have no complaints


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## Maeglin (Sep 27, 2006)

Just received mine this evening, and had a little chance to play with it so far. I'm seeing the same things as far as slowness in the guide and title search and the missing network settings in Guided Setup, but everything else seems to be working well so far. I'm not seeing any problems with the remote (though I have a projection set, not plasma), the Live TV button works fine, and I'm not having any problems with the Yahoo apps forgetting login info. This is with software version 8.0.1a-01-2-648 (forced an update and reboot).

Just noticed that I am getting the Closed Captioned icon when there is none as well.

We shall see what things are like when the CableCards are installed next weekend. At the moment, I'm on analog cable and whatever few in-the-clear QAM channels there are here.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

doopstr said:


> I really hope the delay bug isn't the same problem the 6412 has. Hopefully they fix that.
> 
> The delay bug and the crappy guide of the 6412 are the two main reasons why I would buy an S3. Looks like I will just wait until Comcast offers the Tivo software on the 6412 to see how that works out. I was actually hoping that the Tivo software would fix the delay problem on the 6412.


Same here, I hate the 6412. I have noticed lag in the S3 at times and one time it did respond in a Motorola-ish way, but if I were to create a scale where the 6412 lag is a 10 for **positively annoying**, so far the S3 has been at about a 3 or 4, so definitely no where near as crappy as the Moto STB.

However, as people point out, a lot of the reason those of us shelled out $800 for the S3 was so we could ditch the 6412 which apparently we all hate, but not necessarily getting the "upgrade" we had hoped for.


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## sjcbulldog (Jul 13, 2004)

Many will classify this as a feature request rather than a bug request. I don't really care what you call it, but I would like it.

Tivo did a reasonable job of "hiding" the two tuners on the system. I don't worry about which tuner is active when changing channels, or recording shows. The Tivo manages the tuners and does the "right" thing most of the time. However, if I am asking Tivo to record a show and there is a conflict, it displays the conflict and asks me if I really want to cancel the previously scheduled recording. The previously scheduled recording selected depends on which tuner is currently active. In reality, in this situation, I have three (not two) scenarios that are possible. I could choose not to record the show I am trying to record. I could choose to cancel the recording(s) on tuner 1 to have the new show recorded, or I could choose to cancel the recording(s) on tuner 2 to have the new show recored.

I want this choice. As it is today, I have to cancel the new show, switch tuners and they try to record the show again. It gets anoying. We have a lot of season pass shows from the food channel, discovery, etc that are their to basicaly insure we always have something to watch. If there is a movie we want that conflicts with these, we just cancel the filler shows and get the movie. Now, I have to be sure I am acutally cancelling the right stuff.

Just my $0.02 worth
scjbulldog


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## nlayton (Sep 16, 2003)

sjcbulldog said:


> Many will classify this as a feature request rather than a bug r
> 
> I want this choice. As it is today, I have to cancel the new show, switch tuners and they try to record the show again. It gets anoying. We have a lot of season pass shows from the food channel, discovery, etc that are their to basicaly insure we always have something to watch. If there is a movie we want that conflicts with these, we just cancel the filler shows and get the movie. Now, I have to be sure I am acutally cancelling the right stuff.
> scjbulldog


When you choose to cancel the conflicting show it will cancel the show with the lowest season pass priority. It doesn't really matter what tuner it is, the lowest season priority will be canceled. So just make sure all of your 'filler shows' are the lowest shows in the season pass manager and you should be good to go. That is how I do it and it works fine for me. I don't even have to think about it.


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## sjcbulldog (Jul 13, 2004)

I tried this again and you are correct. The place were this was a problem was with shows recorded by pressing the record button on the guide. Same basic comment on my part. There were two shows that were manually selected. There was no implied priority and therefore I want the choice of which one to delete.

In general even for season passes I would like a default selection based on priority but the ability to swap which one is actually deleted from the todo list.

Note that I assumed it was a function of the tuner I was watching, but it was not. Tivo consistently chose the same show to delete, just not the one I wanted. 

Sjcbulldog

PS. My six year old wants a face on this posting so here we go


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

I have duplicate channels appearing in the guide. Apparently this is happening each time there is a call in and a download.

Not a huge hassle, but a bit annoying.


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## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

I activated my TiVo today but started making Season Passes yesterday.

I added more than a few series which worked out just fine, but some did not work out correctly. One such example was tonight's "Family Guy". The Season pass indicated that nothing was scheduled to be recorded. It was set for recording "first runs" saving all episodes.

It did not tag the family guy from tonight as something to record. Not sure why. the activity list did not even say that it "would not record". It was just not listed there. This also happened for "Blue's clues" for my child. Lots of episodes coming up, but none of them were tagged for recording.

In both cases I went though the list of episodes, and there were some that I think should have been recorded.

Also, I have experienced the TiVo not responding to the remote "bug". If I pressed the TiVo button and waited long enough it would come back. But still. People are sending the whole TiVo back? Or is this something which is more of a software problem which will be taken care of with a software update?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

sysdude said:


> Also, I have experienced the TiVo not responding to the remote "bug". If I pressed the TiVo button and waited long enough it would come back. But still. People are sending the whole TiVo back? Or is this something which is more of a software problem which will be taken care of with a software update?


The only "Tivo not responding to the remote bug" I've seen is the one impacting plasma TV users. Do you have a plasma TV? If so, search for the recent related threads.


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## rairhart (Oct 2, 2006)

I have a very minor bug... occasionally when fast forwarding or rewinding, it won't make the "bloop" noise. I check the sound settings and it's set to make the noises. But sometimes the noise just doesn't work. The menus always make the noises. Anyone else notice this?


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## BGreenstone (Sep 23, 2006)

Here's a bug that's 100% reproducable: 

1. Say I'm recording ShowX on anaglog channel 2, but I decide I want it to record ShowX on digital channel 202.
2. I go into Find Programs and create a new Season Pass for ShowX on channel 202.
3. Now I go into Season Pass Manager and I see both season passes, so I delete the one for channel 2.
4. Now I even go and delete channel 2 from my channel lineup.
5. Despite this, the Tivo will continue to record the season pass from channel 2 indefinitely. It will only switch to channel 202 once there are no further showings on the calendar. As long as there are any showings of ShowX on any channel, it keeps recording from channel 2 even tho the Season Pass is for channel 202 and channel 2 doesn't even exist in the lineup.

The solution is to delete the original Season Pass first before creating the new one. But creating 2 season passes for the same show on different channels confuses the Tivo.

-Brian


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## davesc (Oct 2, 2006)

Shiny new S3 (awaiting cable cards). Connected to cable only with good signal.
One tuner displays a perfect color picture, but the other tuner shows only a
black and white picture. Very annoying.

Sounds like a hardware problem, but just checking to see if others have 
seen anything like this... 

No change in the situation with different cables. Tried rebooting a few times
as well. Any thoughts before I call the support folks?


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## rpahlow (Oct 2, 2006)

When I am recording, usually an HD station, sometimes the sounds drops out. Lips move and there is no noise, street sounds, water running in the background are still there. Tonight the TIVO switched itself between HD widescreen and narrow while the problem was occurring. The sound was normal and correct when we were not watching a wide picture and failed again when it went back to wide screen. I stopped the recording on channel 107 and switched to channel 7 (good sound) then back to 107 and had good sound here too. This has done this a couple of times and I believe the recording being made shows the same characteristics. This seems similar to other folk's audio problems here.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

rpahlow said:


> When I am recording, usually an HD station, sometimes the sounds drops out. Lips move and there is no noise, street sounds, water running in the background are still there. Tonight the TIVO switched itself between HD widescreen and narrow while the problem was occurring. The sound was normal and correct when we were not watching a wide picture and failed again when it went back to wide screen. I stopped the recording on channel 107 and switched to channel 7 (good sound) then back to 107 and had good sound here too. This has done this a couple of times and I believe the recording being made shows the same characteristics. This seems similar to other folk's audio problems here.


Was this during "Cold Case"? If so, it was a problem with the signal, nothing wrong with the S3. Also had an audio problem with "Desperate Housewives" in my area, again, not a TiVo problem.


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## guerra6880 (Sep 29, 2006)

rairhart said:


> I have a very minor bug... occasionally when fast forwarding or rewinding, it won't make the "bloop" noise. I check the sound settings and it's set to make the noises. But sometimes the noise just doesn't work. The menus always make the noises. Anyone else notice this?


I have noticed that same thing, but what I have figured out was that it only has done this to me on programming with Doby Digitals tracks sources via the Cable Cards. I first noticed this on HD Sources but have realized that it happens on more than just HD programs.

Does this seem to be the same for you?


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

Bug: When creating a season pass for a specific show on a specific channel, and you list all upcoming episodes, it displays all episodes on *all* channels.

The tivo should only display upcoming episodes on the channel that you selected, acting as a preview of what the season pass is going to record.

This is especially important given the duplication of channels across analog, digital, and HD bands.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

sysdude said:


> I activated my TiVo today but started making Season Passes yesterday.
> 
> I added more than a few series which worked out just fine, but some did not work out correctly. One such example was tonight's "Family Guy". The Season pass indicated that nothing was scheduled to be recorded.


I'd leave it a day and check it again. When you first start, it doesn't have all the data, and its not indexed. Once it has all the guide data, and indexed it should work. If it doesn't then you have a problem.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

rairhart said:


> I have a very minor bug... occasionally when fast forwarding or rewinding, it won't make the "bloop" noise. I check the sound settings and it's set to make the noises. But sometimes the noise just doesn't work. The menus always make the noises. Anyone else notice this?


Both of my HD TiVo units (HR10-250) from DirecTV behave the same way.

The TiVo units cannot insert feedback "tones" in a Dolby Digital audio stream. So, if you are watching any HD OTA or HD cable channel (or satellite in my case), I would expect things to be silent. If you are watching analog channels or comparable digital SD channels (i.e., with PCM audio instead of Dolby Digital audio) you should hear the tones.

Depending on your A/V receiver brand and model, you may hear soft or loud "pops" when the TiVo is switching to/from Dolby Digital audio.

I also hear tones when using the menus because the TiVo sets itself to PCM audio for the menus.


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## guerra6880 (Sep 29, 2006)

I have seen anyone mention this one yet.

After a self induced reboot to clear up some dropped channels, it asked me to re-run the Guided Setup as it thought that that Cable Card #1 had just been inserted even thought this was completed after the installation of the Cable Cards 40+ hours ago. Has anyone else seen this behavior as well?


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## guerra6880 (Sep 29, 2006)

sonicboom said:


> Bug: When creating a season pass for a specific show on a specific channel, and you list all upcoming episodes, it displays all episodes on *all* channels.
> 
> The tivo should only display upcoming episodes on the channel that you selected, acting as a preview of what the season pass is going to record.
> 
> This is especially important given the duplication of channels across analog, digital, and HD bands.


All series of TiVo's have alway done this, this isn't anything new to the Series 3. I think that it is to show you what other episode are not going to be recorded so that you can choose additional ones is you want to.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

sonicboom said:


> The tivo should only display upcoming episodes on the channel that you selected, acting as a preview of what the season pass is going to record.


I disagree. It has always worked the other way, and I appreciate being able to see what my choices are for alternatives.


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## snathanb (Sep 13, 2006)

sysdude said:


> I activated my TiVo today but started making Season Passes yesterday.
> 
> I added more than a few series which worked out just fine, but some did not work out correctly. One such example was tonight's "Family Guy". The Season pass indicated that nothing was scheduled to be recorded. It was set for recording "first runs" saving all episodes.
> 
> It did not tag the family guy from tonight as something to record. Not sure why. the activity list did not even say that it "would not record". It was just not listed there. This also happened for "Blue's clues" for my child. Lots of episodes coming up, but none of them were tagged for recording.


"First Run" means the very first time an episode is aired, ever. Last night's Family Guy was a rerun, just as many of the Fox shows will be until November. They are all on haitus for baseball playoffs. Family Guy didn't record because you told it not to.

I'm sure that's why your Blue's Clues are recording either...


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## rairhart (Oct 2, 2006)

Budget_HT said:


> Both of my HD TiVo units (HR10-250) from DirecTV behave the same way.
> 
> The TiVo units cannot insert feedback "tones" in a Dolby Digital audio stream. So, if you are watching any HD OTA or HD cable channel (or satellite in my case), I would expect things to be silent. If you are watching analog channels or comparable digital SD channels (i.e., with PCM audio instead of Dolby Digital audio) you should hear the tones.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was listening to HD OTA with Dolby so that must be the issue. My Sony A/V receiver doesn't make any pops when switching to Dolby.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I only want to use my S3 for HD channels and I only have basic so I only get 5 HD channels. The 4 networks and something else. I set channels I receive to the 5 channels and ever since whenever I try to search for a program by name or time it takes at least 30 seconds to come up. When searching my name each time I key in a letter I have to wait another 30 seconds and when its by time each time I scroll to the next page of times I have to wait another 30 seconds. The only way that I can seem to fix this is to set it to all channels and not just thos few. Is there a way to fix this? Is it a bug?

-Joe


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

snathanb said:


> "First Run" means the very first time an episode is aired, ever. Last night's Family Guy was a rerun, just as many of the Fox shows will be until November. They are all on haitus for baseball playoffs. Family Guy didn't record because you told it not to.
> 
> I'm sure that's why your Blue's Clues are recording either...


Just to add a bit- IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY- I think first run applies if for any airing that is withing 7 days of the original air date.- So it might not just be the very first time an episode has aired.

For example- sometimes the networks repeat the earlier weeks episode on saturday night. Jericho is a recent example. I think Lost also has done that in the past.

If they chow originally aired earlier in the week but repeats on saturday (or anytime within 7 days) it will pick it up as first run.

But things that ar reruns from weeks or months ago (like current fox programming) will not get recorded by first run.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

When rewinding, then pressing play, it usually strts playing about where I started rewinding. Very annoying to have to fiddle with this. The spouse is NOT amused.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Man. I have been following this thread since the beginning. Hard to believe so many bugs have been found since the S3's release - bugs that weren't caught in beta testing. Some of these seem so common I can't imagine how they escaped beta.

TiVo has their work cut out for them it would seem.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

AVSman said:


> I wanted to post an update to my situation. I moved my S3 one shelf lower in my entertainment center, and it appears BOTH problems are gone!!! A big :up: to those who suggested the issue could be interference from other equipment, especially from plasmas. I was doubtful this would fix the second issue above, but it appears to have done so.
> 
> (Tangent)
> This is what is so great about online forums. I was going to run out and return my S3 to Circuit City, but I thought I'd post here and see what others thought first. Thanks again everybody!


I hope my unit doesn't have a slow respond time. I got rid of the 6412 for that reason. I would hate to 40 miles to renton to return it.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

BGreenstone said:


> But creating 2 season passes for the same show on different channels confuses the Tivo.


Odd. I had SPs for the L&O shows on the SD analog channels. Then I created them for the HD digital channels. And then I deleted the SD SPs. The S3 started recording the HD versions just fine.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

megazone said:


> Odd. I had SPs for the L&O shows on the SD analog channels. Then I created them for the HD digital channels. And then I deleted the SD SPs. The S3 started recording the HD versions just fine.


wishlists SEEM to confuse the SD channel and the HD channel. I cant quite put my finger on it. But it looks like wishlists ignore the HD channel but if you go to a show on the sd channel and select see upcoming then it shows the HD ones too.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

100% reproducable -

Clicking on ThumbsUp when an iPreview tag is displayed causes the recording screen for the lowest channel for that network, rather than the channel that the show is tuned on (or recorded on).

For example:

If you have Fox stations as follows:

13 analog cable
31 OTA SD
31-1 OTA digital
655 cable digital

and are watching a show recorded on 655, when you press iPreview, you get the opportunity to record the show in question, but on the lowest channel number selected in Channels I receive, rather than forcing the recording on 655.

So, if I have the Digital OTA and the Digital cable versions of the channels selected, the recording will be set up for channel 31-1 instead of 655.

I believe tag should "stick" to the channel, so iPreview should attempt to set up the recording on the channel the tuner was on at the time the tag is encountered.

My guess is that this same bug is on the Series 2 boxes.


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## Deacon West (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm having infrequent audio dropouts maybe once or twice a day. Also, after an audio dropout, I am able to rewind and the dropout is also recorded with the program. My S3 has two cablecards and currently no OTA antenna. I have seen this problem reported in this and other therads. Not a huge deal and I still love the S3. Is this a TiVo hardware issue, a cablecard issue or something else?


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

hookbill said:


> I have duplicate channels appearing in the guide. Apparently this is happening each time there is a call in and a download.
> 
> Not a huge hassle, but a bit annoying.


Are you using both cable and antenna? Try killing off one or the other of the duplicates in the channels menu.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

TiVotion said:


> Hard to believe so many bugs have been found since the S3's release - bugs that weren't caught in beta testing. Some of these seem so common I can't imagine how they escaped beta.
> 
> TiVo has their work cut out for them it would seem.


It is likely that some of them were seen in beta testing but were not deemed critical enough to hold up production. Any product this complicated is going to ship with some bugs, it is unavoidable. (Microsoft Windows ships with hundreds of known bugs, for example, but few of them are show-stoppers for anyone.) If a bug wasn't going to cripple the product, or force a recall of hardware, TiVo probably put it in the queue to be fixed, knowing that once the product was released it would be joined by a lot of other bugs in need of fixing. I expect we'll see a software update soon, fixing the biggest problems, another in a few weeks cleaning up and stabilizing everything, and another early next year speeding things up and improving the robustness of the procedures that interface with outside entities (cablecards, network apps, etc.).

If I were running the show at TiVo, I would make damn sure that the S3 was released this early so we could get the box as stable as possible before the big Christmas surge in subscribers crushed our customer service department.


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## TivoEd (Sep 15, 2006)

Has anyone had problems with the component 2 jacks not being active? I hooked my slingbox up to S-video (the way it was on my s2) and I had video but no audio - when i unplugged s-video and just tried component 2 (red,white, yellow) i got nothing? Otherwise it appears to work well.


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## snathanb (Sep 13, 2006)

TivoEd said:


> Has anyone had problems with the component 2 jacks not being active? I hooked my slingbox up to S-video (the way it was on my s2) and I had video but no audio - when i unplugged s-video and just tried component 2 (red,white, yellow) i got nothing? Otherwise it appears to work well.


Haven't tried it... but FYI.. those are composite, not component.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

I've been getting zero length "Partial" recordings of regularly scheduled programs. I can't determine any common factor for the 3 times it's happened so far.


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## nlayton (Sep 16, 2003)

TivoEd said:


> Has anyone had problems with the component 2 jacks not being active? I hooked my slingbox up to S-video (the way it was on my s2) and I had video but no audio - when i unplugged s-video and just tried component 2 (red,white, yellow) i got nothing? Otherwise it appears to work well.


S-Video is for video only, it does not have audio


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> 100% reproducable -
> 
> Clicking on ThumbsUp when an iPreview tag is displayed causes the recording screen for the lowest channel for that network, rather than the channel that the show is tuned on (or recorded on).
> 
> ...


seems tivo deosn't differnentiate the differnt versions at all- if you do a wishlist it only shows you one and ignores the rest. If you select one and do view upcoming eps then it will list all the channels.

If I remember at first the HR10-250 on directv had the same issue (at least confusing the local HD and the sat HD- but it seamed to differntiate the sd from HD). Then Directv changed the call signs on the sat channels from WNBC to something like NBCEast or something and that worked.

Maybe TiVo needs to change the callsigns they provide in the guide data to help this?


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> Are you using both cable and antenna? Try killing off one or the other of the duplicates in the channels menu.


Once I got cable cards installed that ended the duplicate channel problem.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

Lots of people mention the grid guide and title search being slow, and I agree, they are. Really really slow. But I almost never use them, so not a big deal. 

Has anyone else noticed the "now playing" list performing REALLY slowly? When I hit pagedown or delete a program, it takes a second or two to refresh, displaying each entry one by one. This is incredibly annoying. It's much less responsive than my old 1999 series1. This has got to be a bug, it's just displaying a list for crying out loud.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Maybe TiVo needs to change the callsigns they provide in the guide data to help this?


In this case, the call signs between the SD and HD versions, so that isn't it.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

Has there been any further information on the live audio dropping in and out while using the guide bug? I have also noticed audio on live playbacks dropping in and out when I was not using the guide on rare occasions. If I go back and look at the recorded content when it happened I don't hear the audio glitches so it only affects the live stream, not what is recorded. Anyways, I've looked around here and didn't see anything so I was wondering if there has been any new information because this is becoming more and more annoying.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

sonicboom said:


> Bug: When creating a season pass for a specific show on a specific channel, and you list all upcoming episodes, it displays all episodes on *all* channels.
> 
> The tivo should only display upcoming episodes on the channel that you selected, acting as a preview of what the season pass is going to record.
> 
> This is especially important given the duplication of channels across analog, digital, and HD bands.


This is a "feature" of all TiVos, not a bug. If you want to see a preview of what will be recorded, the place to go is the "To Do" list. Note that if there are some channels that you are confident that you will never want to record from, the best thing to do is to delete them from the "Channels I Receive" list.


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## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

Occasionally, and I really don't know why, the S3 stops putting out a signal over HDMI. I have a HDMI to DVI cable (cause my TV does not support DHMI natively). When this happens I can still hear the audio coming out of the tivo via component audio. 

If I unplug the HDMI from the tivo and replug it, the TiVo once more instantly starts putting signals over HDMI again and then it works again. 

Any ideas why this sort of bug is happening?


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

I haven't had a hint of problems with my HDMI input. Maybe your HDMI to DVI adapter is bad.


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## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

tunnelengineer said:


> I haven't had a hint of problems with my HDMI input. Maybe your HDMI to DVI adapter is bad.


Not so sure I'm ready to call it that yet. Worked for many hours with no problem, and after unplugging and replugging it works again.

I'm going to set the resolution to 1080i fixed instead of 1080i Hybrid. Dunno why I think it might be the culprit, but it is my guess..


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> In this case, the call signs between the SD and HD versions, so that isn't it.


point is- I beleive they ignore the "dt" at the end of the callsign and that's the problem.

There was a similar issue early on with the HR10 on directv but then directv changed the callsigns to something like NBCEast instead of WNBCDT and it fixed itself.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TODO list strangness?

Sorry if this is a dup but i didn't see it when i searched. But the todo list seems screwy on my box. 

When I go to todo and hit page down a few times, it seems eventually i will go too fast and the box needs to catch up to me. It will bong error noise me and refuse to page down (or down arrow)- if i wait a little bit it will 'catch up' and proceed. It may or may not do it again further down the list. It's a bit annoying becasue you never know if you have waited long enough- someimtes it needs a second other times like 10 or 15. If you 'rush' it and hit page down and it bongs you 3 differnt times it will dump you back to the top of the todo list. If you want to check on somethign a week or 10 days out it can take forever.

Also, I notice that on certain programs if I right arrow from the todo list for more info and then left arrow to go back to the todo list it will dump me out on the show above. Most times it dump you out with the same show highlighted but for whatever reasons sometimes on certain shows it repeatedly will dump you the show above. Doesn't really have any usability ramifications but I found it weird.

If you tune the tuners to two channels with no picture you can get much further and faster in the todo list.


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## absmith1 (Jul 16, 2001)

I didn't see this problem mentioned yet: 

When I go through the menu structure I sometimes come upon a TiVo screen that causes my screen to go blank. The TiVo is still there - I can move forward and backward in the menu and the picture will return. Does the S3 switch resolutions between menu screens or something?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

todo weirdness seems fixed in the .b upgrade.

Maybe we should start a new thread for 8.0.1b bugs so it's clear what's still an issue in the current version?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> todo weirdness seems fixed in the .b upgrade.
> 
> ...


never mind it's back...


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## wackymann (Sep 22, 2006)

I think I found a reappearing deleted channel bug...

On my system, there are 3 separate channels listed for 882 (INHD1, FSNEHD, NESNHD). NESN used to pre-empt INHD1 for Bruins and Red Sox games, which is why it's there. FSNEHD is still used for Celtics games. Anyways... a while back, NESNHD was given its own channel (851), so it never pre-empts INHD1 any more. So I went into the channel list and deleted the 882-NESNHD from my list. That seemed to work fine. However, every time my system reboots (e.g. firmware updates), the 882-NESNHD reappears in my channel list.

I'm worried that I will set something to record on 851, and it will decide to record 882 instead.


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## pfunky (Sep 15, 2006)

Coax cable plugged in
Coax Antenna plugged in
1 Cablecard inserted (in bottom slot):

Multi tuner doesn't work. Prior to installing the single cablecard, I saw the "change tuner" icon in the banner. Plus, using the "Live TV" button would change to it. Once I inserted the cablecard, the other tuner won't function. The "change tuner" icon isn't there, and when you press the "Live TV" button, it just gives the error "bong".


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## mikbrown (Oct 1, 2006)

pfunky said:


> Coax cable plugged in
> Coax Antenna plugged in
> 1 Cablecard inserted (in bottom slot):
> 
> Multi tuner doesn't work. Prior to installing the single cablecard, I saw the "change tuner" icon in the banner. Plus, using the "Live TV" button would change to it. Once I inserted the cablecard, the other tuner won't function. The "change tuner" icon isn't there, and when you press the "Live TV" button, it just gives the error "bong".


This is covered elsewhere, but when you put one CC in you effectively turn it into a single tuner device, hence your issue. You need to get another CC and you will be all set.


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## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

I've seen it discussed elsewhere, but did not find the solution: 

Just in the way of a setup: Here in NYC low def NBC is channel 4 WNBC, HD is say channel 702 WNBCDT 

Season Pass for "Heros" (as an example), I set it on the series 3, selecting the showing on channel 702. It says ok, will take a minute to show up in the todo list. 

So I wait a minute and check the season pass. It has selected the low def version of Heros to record. I thought it was a fluke, so I deleted the season pass and did it again. Same result. 

Oh TiVo programmers out there in CA (or wherever the programming happens), any chance of getting more than just 4 chars for the call sign checked? it would be nice if 
strcmp("WNBC","WNBCDT") != 0  

Of course an easy "fix" would be to delete the low def channels from the channels I receive. However, if I did that the babysitter would be watching lots of programming on the HD stations in SD. I don't want the black bars to burn into my Plasma screen...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

sysdude said:


> I've seen it discussed elsewhere, but did not find the solution:
> 
> Just in the way of a setup: Here in NYC low def NBC is channel 4 WNBC, HD is say channel 702 WNBCDT
> 
> ...


yup- wishlists show the same behavior ignoring the HD versions with the DT. A similar thing happened YEARS ago when the Hr10-250 with tivo software came out for directv. Luckily directv was in a psition to rename WNBCDT into something like NBCEHD or something so the first 4 digits where differnt and all was well. You would think that tivo would have learned back then.

For some reason sometimes they work though- i personally for whatever reason am fine with HD season passes but cant get the wishlists to acknowledge the HD versions- if i select an indiviudal show from the wishlist and select view upcoming then it shows all the SD and HD ones and I can pick the HD's and it will record those.


----------



## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> yup- wishlists show the same behavior ignoring the HD versions with the DT. A similar thing happened YEARS ago when the Hr10-250 with tivo software came out for directv. Luckily directv was in a psition to rename WNBCDT into something like NBCEHD or something so the first 4 digits where differnt and all was well. You would think that tivo would have learned back then.
> 
> For some reason sometimes they work though- i personally for whatever reason am fine with HD season passes but cant get the wishlists to acknowledge the HD versions- if i select an indiviudal show from the wishlist and select view upcoming then it shows all the SD and HD ones and I can pick the HD's and it will record those.


I'm guessing this stuff is written in something like C, in which case I was hoping that our TiVo service providers could re-write the "check station" code to check the whole string instead of just the first 4 chars (Guessing this is what they actually do). Seems like they should not have to change the call signs of the HD stations, just do a slightly better check.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

sysdude said:


> ... Seems like they should not have to change the call signs of the HD stations, just do a slightly better check.


agreed.

my point about directv was the problem was evident a couple years ago- it happened to get fixed by directv changing the call signs but it was obviously a problem for the short period when the regular station letters were used.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

sysdude said:


> I've seen it discussed elsewhere, but did not find the solution:
> 
> Just in the way of a setup: Here in NYC low def NBC is channel 4 WNBC, HD is say channel 702 WNBCDT
> 
> ...


For what its worth, I get the same TV signals as the TiVo programmers, and I'm not seeing this problem. I have a season pass for KTVUDT (2-1), it does not record off of KTVU (2), in fact I recently chaged that to be a season pass on 2-1, and deleted the one for 2. I also have one for KQED (the HD one) on cable 709 and it doesn't record KQED off of 9. They all record the channel I expect them to.


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## vanreuter (Jan 17, 2004)

Having the remote sensor bug. I hope to solve it with a hidden-link IR repeater. I can't find the remote sensor, "window", on the front panel. Will the IR repeater work, and if it will, where the heck is the remote sensor?


George


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

vanreuter said:


> Having the remote sensor bug. I hope to solve it with a hidden-link IR repeater. I can't find the remote sensor, "window", on the front panel. Will the IR repeater work, and if it will, where the heck is the remote sensor?
> 
> George


the useless plasma remote thread says right edge- says the round window is visible with a flashlight.

I have had succes with the speakercraft plasmaproof setup incase you cant get the hidden-link to work. (I found that the channelplus one was effected by the backlight in my LCD but the speakercraft could handle it.)


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

sysdude said:


> Season Pass for "Heros" (as an example), I set it on the series 3, selecting the showing on channel 702. It says ok, will take a minute to show up in the todo list. So I wait a minute and check the season pass. It has selected the low def version of Heros to record. I thought it was a fluke, so I deleted the season pass and did it again. Same result.


I've noted something similar. Here, NBC is on 7 in SD and on 807 in HD, over cable. I have a recording scheduled for channel 807. So far so good. I have been trying to also record antenna channel 7-1, as a back-up I suppose, but also so we can decide whether the antenna looks better than the cable. Sometimes, but not all the time, it won't let it happen.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

bicker said:


> I've noted something similar. Here, NBC is on 7 in SD and on 807 in HD, over cable. I have a recording scheduled for channel 807. So far so good. I have been trying to also record antenna channel 7-1, as a back-up I suppose, but also so we can decide whether the antenna looks better than the cable. Sometimes, but not all the time, it won't let it happen.


if i remember the issues with the HD directivo correctly, those problems also were hit and miss. Some had problems all the times, some had problems occasionally, others had no issues and told the first 2 groups they were nuts. I'm terrible at finding anything with the search here- maybe someone can find those old threads in the HD Directv part of the forum....


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I had lots of OTA signal lost this weekend. Just pic/audio loss here and there. I know it was fully due to local stations having issues, not the Tivo.

But I noticed the TiVo would only report the shows as 58 or 59 minutes instead of a fully hour. And these weren't shows that were scheduled weird by the network.

My guess is that the TiVo uses slightly less HD space due to the lost signal and the Duration is calculated based on the amount of space used?

Either way not a huge deal.


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## winpitt (Oct 17, 2006)

ChuckyBox said:


> It is likely that some of them were seen in beta testing but were not deemed critical enough to hold up production. Any product this complicated is going to ship with some bugs, it is unavoidable. (Microsoft Windows ships with hundreds of known bugs, for example, but few of them are show-stoppers for anyone.) If a bug wasn't going to cripple the product, or force a recall of hardware, TiVo probably put it in the queue to be fixed, knowing that once the product was released it would be joined by a lot of other bugs in need of fixing. I expect we'll see a software update soon, fixing the biggest problems, another in a few weeks cleaning up and stabilizing everything, and another early next year speeding things up and improving the robustness of the procedures that interface with outside entities (cablecards, network apps, etc.).
> 
> If I were running the show at TiVo, I would make damn sure that the S3 was released this early so we could get the box as stable as possible before the big Christmas surge in subscribers crushed our customer service department.


You're kidding, right? I hope you don't mean that there will be a surge of subscribers for the S3?

I'd also say that zero length recordings or missed recordings would be classified as severity one critical defects.

I really think the product is cool, but the price is completely out of acceptable range and there is too much competition. TiVo missed the boat on this one. Too late, too expensive. You can overcome one of those, but not both....


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## PatMcNJ (May 22, 2006)

This is not a REALLY bad problem, but annoying. I have Series 2 and 3 running side by side. (long story, 16 year old with autism LOVES to run the Tivo, but he deletes stuff-on purpose-sometimes, so now his shows will go to Series 2, and we will keep him off the series 3 ) 

I have had some trouble programming the stupid remotes, to 1 and 2. I set one, and then the other gets reset too. Or, the 1 side controls the 2 Tivio, vice versa. I read some tips on here, and even unplugged one of the Tivos while resetting the other, so no command would get thru somehow. 

I think I finally have it set, but when I use remote for the Series 2, the red light flashes on the series 3, like its taking the command as well. I am nervous I will be controlling both at the same time, recording and deleting on th e series 3 when I don't mean to......


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## Buran (Mar 29, 2005)

Sometimes the audio in programs buzzes/echoes (it's hard to describe) and sounds like it's being run through a cheese grater or something. Going back to the now-playing screen and resuming the playback fixes it, so it's a playback bug, not something in the saved file.

I got the 0:23 partial bug ONCE.

I also got a software revision from a to b but the weird audio problem persisted.

Closed captions, if they are displaying at the top of the visible area, sometimes scroll off the top of the screen and are still slightly visible instead of totally vanishing. If a caption is going to be partially shown outside the visible space, don't show it at all. Since I'm hearing impaired I run the captions constantly; it's a cosmetic bug (not functional; the captions still do show) it's annoying.

I'm using a widescreen HDMI HDTV for video and RCA out for audio to powered stereo speakers.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

winpitt said:


> You're kidding, right?


Kidding about what. That sounds like a very reasonable description of how this sort of thing gets done.


> I hope you don't mean that there will be a surge of subscribers for the S3?


Why not? Christmas is where most business gets done, companies really hope for a surge in business around the end of the year.


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## winpitt (Oct 17, 2006)

btwyx said:


> Kidding about what. That sounds like a very reasonable description of how this sort of thing gets done.Why not? Christmas is where most business gets done, companies really hope for a surge in business around the end of the year.


Doesn't sound reasonable to me. If the unit were priced appropriately I would agree. However, at the $800 per unit, plus TiVo monthly fees, plus CableCo cablecard monthly charges ($11 per month for me), it's not likely to gain much momentum other than for the TiVo diehards - and even not many of them on a large scale. Unfortunately.

TiVo really dropped the ball in pricing and availability.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

winpitt said:


> ...
> 
> I really think the product is cool, but the price is completely out of acceptable range and there is too much competition. TiVo missed the boat on this one. Too late, too expensive. You can overcome one of those, but not both....


you must have missed the 30 threads debating tivo's current price point for the box even at this late date.

Consensus is they are selling them plenty fast enough to the market that they intended. It is not ment for the mass market at this point. If anything all the issues with cablecards (and the truncated recordigs may very well be some loose of auth or something from the card) should make them want to make sure they dont go too fast so they cant handle all the issues they are seeing.

but best not to pollute this thread with that- any debate about pricing really should use one of the first 30 threads that dicsussed it.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

PatMcNJ said:


> This is not a REALLY bad problem, but annoying. I have Series 2 and 3 running side by side. (long story, 16 year old with autism LOVES to run the Tivo, but he deletes stuff-on purpose-sometimes, so now his shows will go to Series 2, and we will keep him off the series 3 )
> 
> I have had some trouble programming the stupid remotes, to 1 and 2. I set one, and then the other gets reset too. Or, the 1 side controls the 2 Tivio, vice versa. I read some tips on here, and even unplugged one of the Tivos while resetting the other, so no command would get thru somehow.
> 
> I think I finally have it set, but when I use remote for the Series 2, the red light flashes on the series 3, like its taking the command as well. I am nervous I will be controlling both at the same time, recording and deleting on th e series 3 when I don't mean to......


the light will light for ANY remote. It bascially just says "hey i saw in IR remote wink at me- not sure if it's my command but i'll check". THen it figures out if it means anything to that particular box.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

winpitt said:


> Doesn't sound reasonable to me. If the unit were priced appropriately I would agree. However, at the $800 per unit, plus TiVo monthly fees, plus CableCo cablecard monthly charges ($11 per month for me), it's not likely to gain much momentum other than for the TiVo diehards - and even not many of them on a large scale. Unfortunately.
> 
> TiVo really dropped the ball in pricing and availability.


your cablecompany appears to be gouging you if you are paying 11 for 2 cablecards. The FCC told the big boys they shouldn't be mroe than $2 each or risk action. Comcast even hands them out for free.


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## winpitt (Oct 17, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> your cablecompany appears to be gouging you if you are paying 11 for 2 cablecards. The FCC told the big boys they shouldn't be mroe than $2 each or risk action. Comcast even hands them out for free.


Uh, no. Not true.

The FCC did not establish Cablecard rates. Further, what they do is to separate the charges into two costs. Part to lease the card. Part to provision it.

Comcast IN SOME MARKETS hands them out for free apparently. Not this Comcast market. Not most Comcast markets.


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## winpitt (Oct 17, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> you must have missed the 30 threads debating tivo's current price point for the box even at this late date.
> 
> Consensus is they are selling them plenty fast enough to the market that they intended. It is not ment for the mass market at this point. If anything all the issues with cablecards (and the truncated recordigs may very well be some loose of auth or something from the card) should make them want to make sure they dont go too fast so they cant handle all the issues they are seeing.
> 
> but best not to pollute this thread with that- any debate about pricing really should use one of the first 30 threads that dicsussed it.


I'll drop this line in this thread, but strongly disagree with you. TiVo desperately needs the S3 to succeed, and a relatively small market penetration solves nothing. Their revenue (if they're keeping their eye on the ball) is tied to recurring revenue - meaning monthly fees - NOT HW costs. The cost of the box needs to be reasonable in order to gain acceptance, to then drive incremental month over month revenue. Anything else is failure.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

winpitt said:


> Uh, no. Not true.
> 
> The FCC did not establish Cablecard rates. Further, what they do is to separate the charges into two costs. Part to lease the card. Part to provision it.
> 
> Comcast IN SOME MARKETS hands them out for free apparently. Not this Comcast market. Not most Comcast markets.


THe FCC did NOT establish rates but they strongly implied that the big boys better not charge more than 2 bucks or they would regulate it. ALl the big 6 charge 2 or less.

THey CAN charge for an "additonal outlet fee" which you are supposed to pay for any additonal digital reciever- if it's a tivo or a cable compnay DVR or plain digital box. It is unclear if they are permitted to charge 2 "addtional outlet" fees or not. Many have argued it's one outlet and gotten their local provder to waive the second fee. I suspect that if you were to get the FCC involved the addtional outlet fee would only be applicable once, but since the tivo is the first mass market device to use 2 none of the proividers likely have a simple way to waive the fee withoug acidently nuking the cards auth. (As has been reported in several threads)

but maybe we can keep this to the bugs and argue about cablecard fees in those 30 threads....


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## crmlht (Aug 25, 2006)

bump


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

it looks like thre are some issues with how tivo is dealing with the carious copyright flags:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4498087#post4498087


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## Csander (Oct 21, 2006)

14. Live TV button sometimes works; sometimes doesn't - OK, I'm having the same problem I reported on yesterday. SOMETIMES (not all the time) when I hit the "Live TV" button, it brings up the program guide instead of switching tuners (like it's supposed to). The aggravating thing is that it's inconsistent...sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Can anyone check this out to see if they have a similar problem? 


-----

I had this problem and it now seems to have been fixed. I think you can knock this one off of your list.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Does it get better when you go to the main menu?

Are you using the original remote, or something else?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I was bored while watching a recording of CSI today so I decided to play with the closed captioning for the first time.

Once the first set of words appeared onscreen the TiVo froze. I had to pull the plug to reboot.

Good thing I can hear!


----------



## crmlht (Aug 25, 2006)

b



u



m



p


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> Man. I have been following this thread since the beginning. Hard to believe so many bugs have been found since the S3's release - bugs that weren't caught in beta testing. Some of these seem so common I can't imagine how they escaped beta.
> 
> TiVo has their work cut out for them it would seem.


They may have known about some of these bugs and released it anyway. Most software these days is released with some known bugs and much software has bugs that are never fixed (or not fixed until the next major revision) because it's not a priority to the publisher.

There is a very old bug related to Internet Explorer (pasting a string into the search window after bringing it up), that has not been corrected. Don't know if it's still there with IE7.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

I saw something interesting Friday. I went to record the local 6 PM news so I could finish watching something on HDNET Movies. The Tivo said 6:00. When I pressed the record button it asked me if I wanted to record Andy Griffith (which airs 5:30-6:00). I said yes. When it finished setting this up, I presssed the record button again, it asked if I wanted to record the news. I said yes. The movie ended earlier than I expected so I went to watch the news. The display indicated that what I was requesting was 40 minutes long. It correctly showed the current time arrow within that 40 minute period for the recording. Why would it think it had to start recording at 5:50 instead of maybe 5:30?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

vstone said:


> I saw something interesting Friday. I went to record the local 6 PM news so I could finish watching something on HDNET Movies. The Tivo said 6:00. When I pressed the record button it asked me if I wanted to record Andy Griffith (which airs 5:30-6:00). I said yes. When it finished setting this up, I presssed the record button again, it asked if I wanted to record the news. I said yes. The movie ended earlier than I expected so I went to watch the news. The display indicated that what I was requesting was 40 minutes long. It correctly showed the current time arrow within that 40 minute period for the recording. Why would it think it had to start recording at 5:50 instead of maybe 5:30?


when you schedule a recording like that at the last minute while you are watching it- Tivo attempts to get the entire show out of the buffer. The buffer is broken up into chunks but they dont necessarily start or finish on teh hour or half hour. In your case the chunk that container the segment beginning at 6:00 started recording at 5:50. The box cant/doesn't truncate a chunk so it had to grab the whole thing starting at that time. If you go to the now playing to watch it- it would show a 40 minute recording but when you press play it will start at 6:00 in an attempt to not bother you with teh extra 10 minutes.

THe buffer chunks might start and stop at anytime (seems to maybe be based on file size instead of time- so it's random what minute it ends one chunk and starts another)

also related- the buffer might actually be longer than 30 minutes if the chunks dont match up- the tivo will only hsow you 30 minutes. But say you are watchign a show from 6:00 to 7:00 at 6:35 you hit record to get the program. SOmetimes you get lucky and the chunk stretches back past 30 minutes and it will nail the whole show.

Not a bug- just the way it's designed.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

I wish people would ignore "winpitt". He does nothing but bash Tivo, and bash Verizon.

Now, if he wanted to bash DirecTV, I'd fully support him, but he'd have to use more rational arguments.


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## mattn2 (Mar 23, 2001)

One new bug I have found ...

I have 3 repeat weekly recordings set up on channels w/o guide data (see QAM remapping w/o cable card for "OTA" stations for reason). 

I get the recordings fine but ... (Here is the bug)

In the History list I get 8 (or more?) entries per recording time slot marked "Not Recorded".

So for the two weeks I have these repeat recordings, I now have the whole history filled up with wrong "Not Recorded" (close to 50 entries). All other recording info gets lost in this noise.

# Matt


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

wackymann said:


> I think I found a reappearing deleted channel bug...
> 
> So I went into the channel list and deleted the 882-NESNHD from my list. That seemed to work fine. However, every time my system reboots (e.g. firmware updates), the 882-NESNHD reappears in my channel list.


I have the same problem. After reboot, many previously deselected channels come back, and I have to remove them again.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

c3 said:


> I have the same problem. After reboot, many previously deselected channels come back, and I have to remove them again.


come to think if it- same thing happened to me a couple times- eventually the deselected channels finally stopped coming back but it did take a few attempts...


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Anybody else have a problem with a requested channel lineup change?

I submitted a channel change weeks ago. In my area, Fox 16-2 ant should've been Fox 21-2 ant. I've been getting Tivo messages after every single connect saying the change was made (I probably have a dozen messages), but it never corrected the guide list at all for 21-2. Still only says Regular Programming for that channel. (It has been correct now at TCO and Zap2It for a couple weeks as well.)

During my troubleshooting in this thread, I discovered a C&DE fixes this. A simple rerun of guided setup does not unfortunately. On my other drives that I have not done C&DE, the guide is still reporting only Regular Programming for that channel.

Edit: discovered rerunning guided setup with a different lineup, then rerunning again with proper one straighted it out as well.


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## fusednova (Oct 7, 2006)

My bugs so far:

1 - Sound will rarely cut out during a live viewing. I can rewind and the sound is fine.

2 - Season pass has occasional recorded old versions but I have not seen this in 2 weeks.

3 - Tuners simply stop working resulting in 0:00 length shows. I reboot and all is well until the next "must have show" is 0:00. This has happened 3 times in the past 2 weeks.

4 - Resolution resets after reboot but not always.

- Dave
_________
2 X S1
3 x S2 
1 x S3 
2 x Replay 5040


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## winpitt (Oct 17, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> I wish people would ignore "winpitt". He does nothing but bash Tivo, and bash Verizon.
> 
> Now, if he wanted to bash DirecTV, I'd fully support him, but he'd have to use more rational arguments.


Another bug. On the forum I mean.

Again - your definition of bashing is somebody saying something you don't like apparently. You really take discussions personally, don't you?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

I've just noticed a peculiar bug. When "waking" the S3 up from standby the unit will be outputting 2 channel audio. This is with a station that is sending DD 5.1. Changing the channel, and then changing it back brings the DD 5.1 back. In the settings menu the audio is set for Dolby Digital. Was wondering if anyone else noticed this behavior.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

btwyx said:


> I'd like to add bad overshoot correction and funky skip back behaviour with highly compressed video. My cable company is sending very overcompressed SD (even worse than DirecTV), when I'm 3x FFWDing and I hit play I end up a long way overshot where I pressed play, the correction doesn't seem to work very well with such compressed data. It works as expected with reasonable HD channels.
> 
> With the overshoot I have to hit the skip back several times (like 5-6 times), and I'm not sure its working very well with this overcompressed video. If I hit the button quickly it doesn't always seem to actually skip. I need to let it catch up a bit before skipping. Overall, its making FFWD a little frustrating.


Thank god you said that, my significant other has been tirelessly giving me a hard time about my inadequate Tivo skills after missing the end of several commercial breaks. Looking back, they've all been in SD (cartoon network and food network mostly), so I'm glad I can tell her its the TV and not me!


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## MikeCG (Jun 23, 2000)

The problem I was going to post about sounds like the one described above, but I think it occurs in a different way. What I observe is that the Replay button sometimes works properly, but often skips FORWARD so much that it requires 5-6 presses of the Replay button to get back to where it should be. It's not a late press of the Replay button.


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## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

Format button?

I just noticed a small black button on the front of the Tivo Labeled "format". I take it this is the doomsday button, and will format everything on the TiVo?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

sysdude said:


> Format button?
> 
> I just noticed a small black button on the front of the Tivo Labeled "format". I take it this is the doomsday button, and will format everything on the TiVo?


Funny!

(In case you were serious, that's the display format button, so you can pick a video format that your TV can see during setup. Generally not needed after setup.)


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

So, has anyone compiled a sticky list of known and verifiable bugs? It's a little confusing looking through this thread and separating "bugs" from "annoyances" and other problems attributed to cablecards, signal strength, etc....


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## sysdude (Mar 9, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> Funny!
> 
> (In case you were serious, that's the display format button, so you can pick a video format that your TV can see during setup. Generally not needed after setup.)


I was serious! Looking trough the documentation I only found a description of the back of the TiVo not the front.

You say "format" to me, I think of formatting the hard drive..


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## crmlht (Aug 25, 2006)

bump


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

random tuner/channel loss as referenced here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318365&page=5


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

crmlht said:


> bump


This is at least the third time you have bumped this thread in the last couple weeks. Why? If everyone bumped threads *they* felt were important for others to see, or stay aware of, the forum would be full of bumps, and IMHO, become useless.

Eight of your sixteen posts since you joined TCF have been "bump".


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

If every post came from either a 13 year old boy or a forum cop, the effect would be exactly the same.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

rehr0001 said:


> More than likely someone stopped the recording by changing the channels or something.
> 
> You can go into the "to do list", look at previous recordings, and it will tell you why it stopped.


'Not here. I have had several recordings stop after a few minutes when no one was anywhere near the TiVo and there is nothing in the To Do list about why. What's far worse, over the last two weeks, my To do list has slowly evaporated entirely.

The TiVo was recording both my Season Passes and TiVo suggestions just fine, but starting two weeks ago it began missing shows. There is nothing in the To Do list about not having recorded or having deleted the shows. Now the To Do list is completely empty except for whatever shows I specifically tell the TiVo to record. I have 25 season passes, and all of them have large numbers of upcoming episodes, but every one is listed in the To Do list as "None Scheduled"...

Hmmm. I just restarted the TiVo, and at first the To Do list was unchanged (empty except for a couple of manual recordings and a ton of "None Scheduled"). After several minutes, however, the To Do list seems to be regenerating.

Has anyone else experienced a similar issue with the S3?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

rodalpho said:


> If every post came from either a 13 year old boy or a forum cop, the effect would be exactly the same.


What does that make you? The forum internal affairs division? "Cop"-ing the forum cop?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

rodalpho said:


> If every post came from either a 13 year old boy or a forum cop, the effect would be exactly the same.


I'm not sure what you are getting at? There are lots of posts in many threads that I consider a waste of electrons, and far too much thread drift as well (like this!!). But at least it's a friggin' post. Except in very limited circumstances, a "bump" is just selfish and rude. 8/16 posts (AKA 50% in 'old math') is both inconsiderate, and deserving of a tongue lashing from a mod  . IMHO.

I'm not going to belabor the point in this thread; I despise thread drift as much as the next person.


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## Deacon West (Apr 16, 2006)

Bump

And has anyone gotten the green or blue LED's instead of the orange on an S3?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

hookbill said:


> Once I got cable cards installed that ended the duplicate channel problem.


I JUST started getting the duplicate channel problem in my TiVo guide last night. Only the standard (non-digital) channels are duplicated...from 82 to 999 it only shows a single channel.

I have Comcast and two cable cards. The guide was fine for the last many weeks, but just started to show duplicates last night...any ideas anyone?


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

I have to say, I'm getting very annoyed with mucho bugginess. I jumped at the chance to transfer my lifetime service, put down a bunch of money to do it and now am wondering if I made a mistake.

1.) The system glitches in various ways that cause me to reboot. Then when I do the reboot, every time I have to go back in and redo my channel lineup. I have to step through the zillion channels telling it let this one through, not this one, etc etc... Then a week later it hiccups, I have to reboot and do it all over again. Then tonight when I went to redo the lineup, it wouldn't hold the info. I click to remove channel 14 from my lineup, move off the setup screen and then back and, hey, 14 is back in the lineup.

2.) I have trouble with channels coming through. One of my cable cards refuses to see channels 45-52. If the Tivo chooses to do a record on these channels with that tuner, I'm sunk. This is a cable card problem (I am having the card replaced) but given the HD Tivo is cable card dependent, I call it a Tivo problem too.

3.) On the same topic, it seems to me that the 2 HD tuners work hand in hand which can cause problems. What I mean by hand in hand is this. Lets say Tuner #1 is on channel 5. You are scanning the dial with Tuner #2. If as you scan you hit channel 5, Tivo will flip you over to Tuner #1 since it's already on that channel. If you are having problems with one of your cable card tuners this can make things confusing. It switched tuners on me without me being aware. Then I hit the bad channels and, until I figured out what happened, I thought both my tuners were messed up. And there's a more standard problem this seems to cause...

4.) Like I say, it really seems like the HD Tivo is set up to avoid having both the tuners on the same channel at the same time. So I had Tivo set to tape back-to-back episodes of Entourage. Given the arrangement of my season passes, Tivo felt the need to tape the first episode on one tuner and the second episode using the other tuner (Tuner 1 would tune to a different show after taping the first episode). Every week the first episode would tape and the second would fail to tape. My best guess is that at the start of the second episode, Tuner #2 tries to tune to HBO while Tuner #1 is still - for that split second - tuned to HBO. Tuner #2 goes, oh, Tuner #1 is already on that so I won't tune to that channel. The record fails. Then Tuner #1 switches to another channel to tape something else. If the tuners both worked independent of each other this likely wouldn't be an issue.

5.) The online functions also work spotty for me.

So, loss of the ability to transfer files, a reliance on cable card tech that seems to work at best so so, missing shows due to tuner bugs and cable cards blacking out, constant reboots requiring constant lineup fixing... Plus fifty days in and my lifetime service has still yet to be transferred over. In general I love Tivo but I'm hating this and I'm really starting to regret the upgrade.


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

Oops. Almost forgot. Tonight I came home to find Tivo couldn't tune in oodles of channels. And not like with the run of channels Tuner #2 couldn't tune in. With those channels it would go to the channels but not be able to get a signal. In this case it wouldn't even turn to those channels. Try to go to NBC 4 and it would to to Channel 11 as the nearest station. Even on the cable card channel testing screens. It wasn't able to see the channels until I did a full reboot. Then it again knew they were there but whether it would find their signals was a crapshoot on both tuners.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

Mr Jinxo,

Having read quite a few post on problems with the S3, I keep seeing a consistancy to the problems that point to the tuner/signal level.

Before returning your S3, may I suggest having your cable company come out and check the signal level for the individual channels/frequencies that you are having problems with. I'll bet you a beer that they're either too high or too low. Its my opinion that the S3 doesn't handly these variables as well as it should given the variability of signals found in most markets.

Did you have any problems with tiling or freezing with a cable company furnishing DVR? Not the plain cable box, but the DVR.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

JimPa said:


> Its my opinion that the S3 doesn't handl[e] these variables as well as it should given the variability of signals found in most markets.


Abso-friggen-lutely. That's it in a nutshell. Until a federal regulation gets passed specifying a hard limit on signal variability, and federal authorities start enforcing that regulation with serious fines (i.e., NEVER), consumer electronics makers have to design their system to work in the environment it will be deployed into.


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## Brad Smith (Nov 5, 2006)

JimPa said:


> Before returning your S3, may I suggest having your cable company come out and check the signal level for the individual channels/frequencies that you are having problems with. I'll bet you a beer that they're either too high or too low. Its my opinion that the S3 doesn't handly these variables as well as it should given the variability of signals found in most markets.
> 
> Did you have any problems with tiling or freezing with a cable company furnishing DVR? Not the plain cable box, but the DVR.


While I don't disagree that it might be a signal issue, the cable company had checked my signal when installing the cable company DVR and signal was perfect. No issues with that device. Now the Series3 has tons of issues (dropouts, freezes, etc.). I think it is pretty obvious that the issue is with TiVo, not the cable company. Could the signal be better? Probably. Could the cable company improve it? Probably, but at the moment they claim the signal is good, so that's unlikely. If TiVo wants to compete, they need to at least match the performance (that is, no dropouts and freezes) of the cable company DVRs.


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

JimPa said:


> Mr Jinxo,
> 
> Having read quite a few post on problems with the S3, I keep seeing a consistancy to the problems that point to the tuner/signal level.
> 
> ...


Nope. Never went with the cable system DVR. Had a Tivo, upgraded to the HD Tivo. Just sort of freaking out because Murphy's Law is hitting hard. Every element that can go wrong and annoy is. The tuning issues are a from the cable card reliance. The missing of shows is a flat out bug problem related to the Tivo not wanting 2 tuners on the same channel. Then there's various weird hiccups. Top it slow/no progress on my account status...


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

MrJinxo said:


> Plus fifty days in and my lifetime service has still yet to be transferred over.


www.tivo.com/vip


> #7 Both boxes will be activated once this process is complete, but the contract information may take over *60 days* to be reflected on the DVR or "Manage My Account".


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

Ok, now that I've spent a couple of weeks with the S3, here's a list of issues I've had.

No sound/picture on channel where the TV is left when I come home from work. Changing channel up and down back to it brings it back.
Sound occasionally cuts out usually followed by the screen getting garbled for a second.
OLED needs to stay consistently brighter than the "dim" setting. Doesn't have to be brightest, but should be brighter than dim.
Skull and Bones isn't in HD


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> #7 Both boxes will be activated once this process is complete, but the contract information may take over 60 days to be reflected on the DVR or "Manage My Account".


I get that the transfer of service will take awhile. Only on the phone I was initially told it would take a week. Then after a week the next guy said, no no, that was wrong info. It could take up to fifty days. I call on day fifty and get told no, it's sixty. Now I'm pointed to something that says MORE than 60 days. The point becomes less how many days and more that the answer keeps moving around when I just want to know, given what for me was a lot of money to lay out, WHEN do I look online and see the transfer happened and everything is cool. Then add in glitches, weirdness and less services... I start going, "I paid a grand for this?" If, out of the gate, that first agent said it would take well into December before the lifetime service would flip over, I would have been a bit annoyed right at that moment but it wouldn't be bugging me now. But because I've now gotten four different answers to that question, each one saying, "Just a bit longer, just a bit longer," it becomes part of the "I paid for this?" funfest.

I don't even want to be all super bitter. Big Tivo booster in general. Just the experience as a whole is getting a little taxing. More than an answer on the service issue, I'd rather hear some answers to the tuner issues. Really what this thread is for anyway. Just couldn't help venting on the other stuff while I was at it.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I thought it was upto 60 days, and I've been patiently waiting for the 60 days, which is Wednesday for me. Now its over 60 days.

This has been on the VIP offer page since the beginning, I made a copy of it on the day of release (12th of Sept). The policy hasn't changed, and was there for you to see all along, the CSRs aren't doing too well for you though.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

Here is my story.

First S3: random macroblocking on all stations at various times but more often than not.
Replaced
Second S3: I've had it up and running for the last week. In the last few days I noticed:

1. Some recordings show macroblocking. I suppose this could be related to problem number 2.

2. Some channels from time to time show macroblocking but relatively infrequently. Last night the NFL game showed it but at the same time INHD had no problem.

3. One tuner/card dropped out (lost all channels) and I had to do a reset which solved the problem (it's the one where you don't lose any of your settings luckily). This happened twice in the last few days. It seems that the problem is with Tuner/card 1 but I still need to observe this a bit more.

4. Live TV button suddenly stopped switching tuners and brought up the TV guide instead. I am using a Harmony 890 to control. When this happened I checked on the TIVO remote and the same problem occurred.

5. I have not noticed the problem with the missing channels in the range that has been reported in this thread.

I don't know what to think at this point. I'm still within the 30 day period but I'm not sure that swapping yet again is going to solve these problems.

Could the macroblocking have to do with the cable cards? I already swapped one which would not show any channels. I hate to have to deal with Comcast again. Could it be a signal strength issue? I thought not because I had the exact same set up (same cables,etc) with my Comcast provided Moto and no problems with the signal. Also the signal strength as measured from the TIVO menu is in the mid-90s. I've seen some posts saying that you cannot rely on the TIVO measure. Still, if the signal strength was ok for the Moto why would it not be ok for the TIVO?

The dropping out of all channels and weird button behavior seem like firmware bugs judging from what I've read in this thread.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Do you have another cable box (preferably HD) lying around, or that you could pick up from your local Comcast office to CONFIRM the macroblocking isn't a bad signal, or Comcast-headend issue?


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

ashu said:


> Do you have another cable box (preferably HD) lying around, or that you could pick up from your local Comcast office to CONFIRM the macroblocking isn't a bad signal, or Comcast-headend issue?


Yes. I have the Comcast HD cable box sitting right next to the S3. I used the exact same cable from the wall to both boxes. I also used the exact same cabling from the DSTB and the S3 to the TV. When I first had the problem on all channels with the first S3 I had a conversation with a TIVO first level tech who asked a lot of questions about the cable connections between the TIVO and the TV. He suggested changing the HDMI slot, etc. That is why I replicated exactly the connections between the boxes and the TV. In all experiments I had no problem with macroblocking using the Moto/Comcast box. Interestingly, the first S3 had this problem pretty much all the time. The second S3 has only started showing the problem after about 5 days of use and the problem is not ubiquitous; it happens on a few channels and only some times, not most of the time.

Could the S3 be more sensitive in some way to something in the signal? I suppose I should schedule a tech visit with Comcast so that they can check the signal just to be sure but you know what a hassle it is dealing with the cable companies.


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## gbrown (Oct 31, 2006)

If you are running a splitter, make sure that it is a newer model that has significant bandwidth. Even 5 year old splitters may not. 

Also I was using an old "push-on" type cable line between the splitter and the S3. The Comcast service guy said to dump it and go with the "screw-on" type cable line. 

Once I made both changes, a lot of "signal" issues disappeared.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

gbrown said:


> If you are running a splitter, make sure that it is a newer model that has significant bandwidth. Even 5 year old splitters may not.
> 
> Also I was using an old "push-on" type cable line between the splitter and the S3. The Comcast service guy said to dump it and go with the "screw-on" type cable line.
> 
> Once I made both changes, a lot of "signal" issues disappeared.


From the signal input to my home I have three destinations: cable modem, the TIVO box and another DSTB/TV. The cable runs are long too because the guy didn't drill through the walls. They just installed about six months ago so i'm pretty sure that the splits are the newer model. I guess it's worth checking. I WAS thinking of drilling the holes in the walls and re-running the cables which would shorten the length of the runs significantly. Still the question remains, why would this only affect the TIVO and not the two other DSTBs?


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

Update:

So the cable guy came out to replace my bad cable card. The little plastic button that you push to kick out the card? It failed. For a high tech gadget that ejector is pretty Fisher Price. Eventually the guy had to use pliers to pull the card free. Inserted the new card but never did get to finish the install. A screen popped up saying a Firmware update was in progress. The cable guy said that was pretty much the kiss of death. The weird thing is the screen came up for the card that was working, that we left alone, not for the new card.

The cable guy says he has only had that issue pop up on Tivo installs, never when putting the cards into HD sets. He said it popped up for one lady so they left it to "update". 24 hours later it was still updating. So I went online to see what I could find out. Here's where it gets fun. The official Tivo site says the firmware update is part of the process that can pop up and that you should not stop it. Don't turn the power off & don't pull the card or you can fry it. So don't pull the card ever during the update only the process can go on forever if the card dies for, apparently, no reason. Meanwhile the new card sits in its slot but you can't get around the "update" screen so it is still sitting there yet to be authorized.

The cable guy is coming back tomorrow with a whole "poker hand" of cable cards. Meanwhile my Tivo continues it's eternal quest to update.

A thousand dollars.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Jack D said:


> In all experiments I had no problem with macroblocking using the Moto/Comcast box.


Ouch. That's really the most telling aspect of many of these reports: S3 doesn't work; Motorola works.



> Interestingly, the first S3 had this problem pretty much all the time. The second S3 has only started showing the problem after about 5 days of use and the problem is not ubiquitous; it happens on a few channels and only some times, not most of the time.


That was my experience... the first day or two were okay.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

bicker said:


> Ouch. That's really the most telling aspect of many of these reports: S3 doesn't work; Motorola works.
> 
> That was my experience... the first day or two were okay.


Did you find a resolution to your problem?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Yes: I returned my S3. That resolved my problem.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

bicker said:


> Yes: I returned my S3. That resolved my problem.


So you've given up on S3?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Yes. We'll stick with the Motorola DVRs, at least until threads like this one, and the missing channels thread, and the lost recordings thread, and the assorted other problem threads in this forum, calm down to only a few messages per week (and then, mostly replies saying that that problem has been resolved). Then perhaps we'll reconsider.


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

So... had the Time Warner guys come out to work on the cable cards and so hopefully fix the missing channels problem. Yikes! Most important point: having run the system without the cards I discovered it wasn't a cable card issue. The entire missing channels thing is utterly an HD Tivo issue. Tried without a splitter at all and still no joy so I'm calling it a full official HDTivo bug problem.

On the other end of things, getting the cable cards "fixed" turned into a four day saga. Each day a guy would show up, somehow make things worse (breaking cards that had been fine for example) and then would say, "I personally will come back tomorrow and fix this!" Then the next day a new guy would show up and say the same thing. Today the whole thing finally ended. End result: somehow I actually lost an additional channel or two. Not sure how that happened. My hope is that the oversensitivity on the channel reception is a software issue that Tivo will fix... soon... reeeeal soon.


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## SoBayJake (Feb 6, 2002)

MrJinxo said:


> So... had the Time Warner guys come out to work on the cable cards and so hopefully fix the missing channels problem. Yikes! Most important point: having run the system without the cards I discovered it wasn't a cable card issue. The entire missing channels thing is utterly an HD Tivo issue. Tried without a splitter at all and still no joy so I'm calling it a full official HDTivo bug problem.
> 
> On the other end of things, getting the cable cards "fixed" turned into a four day saga. Each day a guy would show up, somehow make things worse (breaking cards that had been fine for example) and then would say, "I personally will come back tomorrow and fix this!" Then the next day a new guy would show up and say the same thing. Today the whole thing finally ended. End result: somehow I actually lost an additional channel or two. Not sure how that happened. My hope is that the oversensitivity on the channel reception is a software issue that Tivo will fix... soon... reeeeal soon.


How does this make it a TiVo issue? How does running w/o cable cards prove its a TiVo issue? Digital channels don't suffer snowy effects like analong, you would have a great signal, no signal, or some intermittent blocking of the image.

If channels are coming and going, sure sounds like a cable card issue, not TiVo.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

No. The problem is as likely as not an unreliable implementation of the interface to the CableCards as anything having to do with the CableCards themselves. Only TiVo can determine that (not the customer, not the cable company), and only to the extent that TiVo is willing to work with their customers to diagnose the precise cause of the problem. My experience with TiVo's techs is that, for THIS problem, they're unwilling to do the right thing. Hopefully that will change.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

SoBayJake said:


> How does this make it a TiVo issue? How does running w/o cable cards prove its a TiVo issue? Digital channels don't suffer snowy effects like analong, you would have a great signal, no signal, or some intermittent blocking of the image.
> 
> If channels are coming and going, sure sounds like a cable card issue, not TiVo.


I think what he's saying is that he could receive the channels without the cable cards which indicates that either the cards weren't properly authorized, they were damaged or once authorized the signal would come and go which is an indication that something isn't right with the incoming signal and or sensitivity to variations by the Tivo.

....and while I'm at it, it may be that the S3 design requires the signal to be in a narrower band in order for it to handle it. Problem is that incoming signals do tend to vary.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

bicker said:


> No. The problem is as likely as not an unreliable implementation of the interface to the CableCards as anything having to do with the CableCards themselves. Only TiVo can determine that (not the customer, not the cable company), and only to the extent that TiVo is willing to work with their customers to diagnose the precise cause of the problem. My experience with TiVo's techs is that, for THIS problem, they're unwilling to do the right thing. Hopefully that will change.


One could argue that given the fact that many of us are trouble-free with our CableCARD equipped S3's, that the problem could just as easily be the particular CC implementation/head-end equipment/authorization/signal strength with the given cable company.

It would tend to believe that problems with CCs in S3s is much more a cable company problem than it's being a problem with the S3.


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## MrJinxo (Oct 24, 2006)

SoBayJake said:


> How does this make it a TiVo issue? How does running w/o cable cards prove its a TiVo issue? Digital channels don't suffer snowy effects like analong, you would have a great signal, no signal, or some intermittent blocking of the image.
> 
> If channels are coming and going, sure sounds like a cable card issue, not TiVo.


Here's why. Channels 45 - 50 are missing on one Tivo tuner and not the other when the Tivo is using cable cards. Cable cards are removed so that only the basic level channels are at play and the cards are out of the equation. Result: same channels are missing on the same tuner. Therefore cable cards not the issue but rather the tuning ability of the HD Tivo. Further, previous to getting HD Tivo I received all channels perfectly using a digital cable box. So the integrity of the signal is not the issue. If the crappy box can spit out those channels, why would my top line brand new super Tivo not be able to?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

MrJinxo said:


> Channels 45 - 50 are missing on one Tivo tuner and not the other


This is the analog tuner problem reported by many people.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> > The problem is as likely as not an unreliable implementation of the interface to the CableCards as anything having to do with the CableCards themselves. Only TiVo can determine that (not the customer, not the cable company), and only to the extent that TiVo is willing to work with their customers to diagnose the precise cause of the problem. My experience with TiVo's techs is that, for THIS problem, they're unwilling to do the right thing. Hopefully that will change.
> 
> 
> One could argue that given the fact that many of us are trouble-free with our CableCARD equipped S3's, that the problem could just as easily be the particular CC implementation/head-end equipment/authorization/signal strength with the given cable company.


Except that the reports of problems are too broad, and far more prevalent than reports of similar problems with CableCard equipped televisions.



> It would tend to believe that problems with CCs in S3s is much more a cable company problem than it's being a problem with the S3.


Everyone will "tend to believe" what will make them feel more comfortable given the choices they've made -- the horses they've decided to bet on. Regardless of personal proclivities, TiVo is the device at the end of the line -- it is up to TiVo to prove that the problem is further up the line, in each case. I produce a software application. We use operating system software on the customers' workstations for its front-end (Microsoft IE plus some Microsoft ActiveX controls). If our customers have problems, they turn to us, because we were the last company in the supply-chain. It is our job to diagnose every problem until we find a way to fix it within our code, or prove that the problem is a bug in someone else's code (typically by developing a simple open-source application that demonstrates the bug in the other company's code).


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

MrJinxo said:


> Here's why. Channels 45 - 50 are missing on one Tivo tuner and not the other when the Tivo is using cable cards. Cable cards are removed so that only the basic level channels are at play and the cards are out of the equation. Result: same channels are missing on the same tuner. Therefore cable cards not the issue but rather the tuning ability of the HD Tivo.


Sorry, guy -- that sounds exactly like the problem I had, except I had channels missing all the way up the line-up, including some channels in the 2-99 range, as well as a couple of 200-level channels and a couple of 800-level channels.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

Yeah, the excuse I heard a few times is that the cable cards work fine directly on TVs that are so equipped to handle them.

But when you think about it, a TV is not a recorder. There are codes that deal with only recorders. Whether this is part of the problem, who knows. ....and why does the Motorola DVR not have these problems?


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

JimPa said:


> Yeah, the excuse I heard a few times is that the cable cards work fine directly on TVs that are so equipped to handle them.
> 
> But when you think about it, a TV is not a recorder. There are codes that deal with only recorders. Whether this is part of the problem, who knows. ....and why does the Motorola DVR not have these problems?


Well the Moto does not use cable cards.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

MrJinxo said:


> Here's why. Channels 45 - 50 are missing on one Tivo tuner and not the other when the Tivo is using cable cards. Cable cards are removed so that only the basic level channels are at play and the cards are out of the equation. Result: same channels are missing on the same tuner. Therefore cable cards not the issue but rather the tuning ability of the HD Tivo. Further, previous to getting HD Tivo I received all channels perfectly using a digital cable box. So the integrity of the signal is not the issue. If the crappy box can spit out those channels, why would my top line brand new super Tivo not be able to?


It absolutely could be, and most likely is a signal issue. I've rediscovered one of the reasons I hate cable.

When I converted from DirecTV to cable, on the first visit, nothing was authorizing - the cable cards, not even the cable boxes. The guy went outside, and came back, and said the signal strength was too low. So, he amped the signal enough to get everything authorized. Fine.

A couple weeks into it, and I realize that my HD Tivo is fine on all channels, but my cable boxes are losing channels in a couple of ranges. Some are pixelated heavily, some don't come in at all. Since this was similar to the previous auth problem, I decided to clean up the splitting (he had an 11db amp followed by a -7db splitter; I replaced the splitter with a +5db per port powered splitter).

At this point, all my cable boxes were working great, but now my S3 Tivo was losing channels, and pixelating.

Great.

After much messing around with various combinations, I finally settled on putting the -7db splitter right before the S3, and now everything is fine. The cable boxes work (with what seems like an over-amped signal), and the S3 is fine with a normal signal.

Bottom line is that all this cable equipment is super sensitive to signal strength, and the S3 Tivo is just another piece. What works for one piece of equipment might not work for another. This is one of the many reasons cable sucks - unlike satellite, the signal strength is determined by the sender, rather than the receiver (satellite has the power generated on each line by the receiver).

I would suggest trying a cheap $2 -7db splitter right before your S3 and see if the signal is too strong. If that doesn't work, try an amp to see if the signal is too weak. I prefer Viewsonics amps, as they seem to be the cleanest, and don't seem to overamp already amped parts of the signal - they seem to clean it up and even it out. At least in my experience.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

bicker said:


> Except that the reports of problems are too broad, and far more prevalent than reports of similar problems with CableCard equipped televisions.
> 
> Everyone will "tend to believe" what will make them feel more comfortable given the choices they've made -- the horses they've decided to bet on. Regardless of personal proclivities, TiVo is the device at the end of the line -- it is up to TiVo to prove that the problem is further up the line, in each case. I produce a software application. We use operating system software on the customers' workstations for its front-end (Microsoft IE plus some Microsoft ActiveX controls). If our customers have problems, they turn to us, because we were the last company in the supply-chain. It is our job to diagnose every problem until we find a way to fix it within our code, or prove that the problem is a bug in someone else's code (typically by developing a simple open-source application that demonstrates the bug in the other company's code).


This reminds me of how Microsoft ruined about 6 months of my life. About 96 or 97 Microsoft put out new versions of Visual C, Visual Basic, and Office, all three within a period of about 3 months. Each of these had different incompatible versions of the Microsoft Common Controls files. I had an app that had speed buttons within a panel across the top of the program window. When this program developed on a PC with Visual Basic ran on a machine with Office, the leftmost button would not be there. Until you noticed that a button was missing it looked like the button was doing the wrong function. It took Microsoft about 6 months to admit to that they had released incompatible versions of theses files. I spent a lot of time on thsis.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

bicker said:


> Except that the reports of problems are too broad, and far more prevalent than reports of similar problems with CableCard equipped televisions.


It hard to really guage how widespread the problems are with online forums. It may be accurate, and it may not. My experience is based on an online forum with a Comcast SF bay area thread, and since the introduction of CableCARDs, Comcast in this area seems to be very adept at CC installations with rarely a complaint being posted about. In some other Comcast areas they do have problems and I truly believe the bulk of these problems are with the cable company implementation/communication/installation of CableCARDs rather than the S3 itself.

I'll concede that the S3 may have problems, but given that it is the same everywhere, while cable systems are not, I would go with the cable system as being the source of the bulk of the problems. It could be the S3 is not as tolerant as it may need to be to accommodate the wide disparity of equipment/people in different cable systems.

And for all the conspiracy theorists, remember that cable never wanted/wants to have CableCARDs in first place, it's in their best interest to have you use one of their boxes over a third party device where they can't control your TV viewing portal.

The only thing I can say for a fact is that in my personal experience with CableCARds in both displays and the S3, they've operated perfectly. I haven't had an CC issue with the S3 from the day they were installed, it's too bad others are having problems and hopefully TiVo/cable companies can get them resolved as the S3 is a really nice piece of equipment.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I think, though, that speculation misses the most important aspect -- that the problems seem to happen with TiVos, not with CableCard televisions.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

bicker said:


> I think, though, that speculation misses the most important aspect -- that the problems seem to happen with TiVos, not with CableCard televisions.


True, it would be interesting though to see the numbers on how many CC equipped displays are actually using CCs, my guess would be that it's less than 1%.


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## GotATiVoToo (Apr 20, 2002)

I'm curious whether there are other seeing a strange "smearing" of the video when fast-forwarding or rewinding. I've noticed this on SD programs, when in one of the trick play modes. What I see is a screen full of diagonal colored lines , that look like they're probably the colors of the image that would have normally been there. Most of the FF/REW content looks fine, but these are interspersed. If I play through that section at normal speed, it looks fine.


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## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

I am having problems with the Yahoo Photos. I can't seem to find where the images are coming from my Yahoo email. I have done several searches and cannot locate them.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

GotATiVoToo said:


> I'm curious whether there are other seeing a strange "smearing" of the video when fast-forwarding or rewinding.


I see that. It looks like what happens when a video signal looses sync, which is quite weird for a digitally processed signal. It only happens on the more compressed cable channels. The S3 has difficulties with these channels doing fast forward, overshoot correction and skip back, so I think its just their handling of over compressed signals needs to be improved.


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## GotATiVoToo (Apr 20, 2002)

I could easily be wrong, but I thought I had seen it on a couple of the analog channels as well. I'll pay closer attention to see if I'm mistaken about that. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone with this behavior.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

bicker said:


> I think, though, that speculation misses the most important aspect -- that the problems seem to happen with TiVos, not with CableCard televisions.


Do we have enough data on cable card use in HDTVs to be sure this statement is accurate? Surely we cannot use just the tivocommunity Forum data to assess the success rate for cable cards in TVs. Even the AVS Forum data may come up short here.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

GotATiVoToo said:


> I could easily be wrong, but I thought I had seen it on a couple of the analog channels as well.


It could happen on Analog, I don't watch any of them. It doesn't happen on HD channels for me.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Budget_HT said:


> Do we have enough data on cable card use in HDTVs to be sure this statement is accurate? Surely we cannot use just the tivocommunity Forum data to assess the success rate for cable cards in TVs. Even the AVS Forum data may come up short here.


We don't. That's why I say that it's a stretch to assume that the problems are with the S3 unit, there is just not enough data, or a source for that data, to make that assumption. For one thing, most of the posts on a forum like this are people looking for answers, answers to problems, whereas, if the unit is working correctly, there's really nothing to post about. So, that is going to skew the numbers badly and there's no way to make a determination as to whether it's the cable company or the S3.

Keep in mind that the S3 is certified by CableLabs to function with CableCARDS, so if there's a problem, the first place I would look would be the cable company. The S3's are all the same. There are 1000's of different cable systems in the country, even hundreds of different ones within a cable company the size of Comcast.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

keenanSR said:


> We don't. That's why I say that it's a stretch to assume that the problems are with the S3 unit, there is just not enough data, or a source for that data, to make that assumption. For one thing, most of the posts on a forum like this are people looking for answers, answers to problems, whereas, if the unit is working correctly, there's really nothing to post about. So, that is going to skew the numbers badly and there's no way to make a determination as to whether it's the cable company or the S3.
> 
> Keep in mind that the S3 is certified by CableLabs to function with CableCARDS, so if there's a problem, the first place I would look would be the cable company. The S3's are all the same. There are 1000's of different cable systems in the country, even hundreds of different ones within a cable company the size of Comcast.


I would agree with you to some extent.

However, when S3s reboot when tuning to a specific channel, this suggest issues with the TiVo implementation. While its true the CableCard may not be complying 100% to the spec, TiVo can definately handle this better than to reboot the machine (maybe an error message that the CableCard is messed up). To say its not clear who's fault it is may be true, but there's no way TiVo can't address this themselves to a certain extent.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> No. The problem is as likely as not an unreliable implementation of the interface to the CableCards as anything having to do with the CableCards themselves. Only TiVo can determine that (not the customer, not the cable company), and only to the extent that TiVo is willing to work with their customers to diagnose the precise cause of the problem. My experience with TiVo's techs is that, for THIS problem, they're unwilling to do the right thing. Hopefully that will change.


The interface to the CableCard is quite simple and completely standard. BTW, although I did have some issues with my S3 unrelated to cable channels, I've had much fewer problems with CC issues since they have been installed in the S3 than when one of them was installed in my Mitsubishi TV set. I've only suffered one instance of missing channels (and only on one card) with my S3, while I had several instances of the same with the TV. In every case, a call to the tech support line got the problem fixed without a truck roll.

As to TiVo's tech support, there is no way anyone can diagnose an internal standards issue over the phone unless the box has an in-depth diagnostics utility designed to do just that. Ordinarily, such troubleshooting would require putting the unit on aq bench and looking very carefully at the details of the signals running through the system. The tools required are quite expensive, including but not limited to a high bandwidth digital oscilloscope, a spectrum analyzer (maybe two), a frequency counter, a multichannel analyzer, and test equipment designed specifically to handle the devices in question.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

JimPa said:


> I think what he's saying is that he could receive the channels without the cable cards which indicates that either the cards weren't properly authorized,


No such thing. Many cable companies (including the one local to me) send out some channels in both an analog format (usually between 50 and 350MHz) and in the digital streams (usually between 350Mhz and 550MHz) as well. More to the point, perhaps, is the fact that in either case it is the S3 (or whatever receiver is using the CableCard) that does the tuning. The CableCard is nothing but a descrambler. It takes a digital input from the S3 receiver, descrambles the bits, and spits them back out to the TiVo's digital input. If the Tivo can receive the digital channel, then it can do so with or without the CableCard. Unscrambled signals are passed straight through the CC.



JimPa said:


> sensitivity to variations by the Tivo.


variations in what? The input and output of the CableCard is digital. There is no "sensitivity", per se. As long as the input voltage to both devices is within the capture specification, they will work. Input capture ranges are quite wide, and there is nothing exotic about the CableCard interface: it is a standard PCMCIA interface just like the one on the average laptop PC.



JimPa said:


> ....and while I'm at it, it may be that the S3 design requires the signal to be in a narrower band in order for it to handle it. Problem is that incoming signals do tend to vary.


That is just nonsense. The modulation parameters of the digital signal are fixed by standard. Any device with a "narrower" tuner simply won't receive the stream at all. Compared to some otyher tuner, the S3 tuner can have better or poorer specs for common mode rejection, adjacent channel rejection, input overload, intermodulation distortion, signal to noise, etc., but those are generally much more relaxed for digital signals than for analog. Not only are both the frequency and bandwidth very well fixed, the receiver can easily make up for small offsets in frequency using its PLL. Changes in level or equalization problems can be problematical if they exceed certain reasonable tolerances, but those tolerances are way above the maximum allowable variances set by the FCC. IF the CATV signal is operating oustide those tolerances, then it is entirely incumbent upon the CATV company to address the issue. The main point, however, is if the S3 can decode the stream without a CableCard, then it is virtually certain it can decode the stream with the CableCard under reasonable conditions.

Under somewhat other than reasonable conditions, it is possible the S3's digital input can resolve a damaged digital stream better than the CableCard, but in that case it is the CableCard which is inferior, not the TiVo. In such a case, however, it is the damaged stream whihc is in fact at fault, not the TiVo or the CableCard.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> Abso-friggen-lutely. That's it in a nutshell. Until a federal regulation gets passed specifying a hard limit on signal variability, and federal authorities start enforcing that regulation with serious fines (i.e., NEVER), consumer electronics makers have to design their system to work in the environment it will be deployed into.


That law went into effect well over 30 years ago. The FCC mandates very specific limits on signal levels in a CATV system. I don't know if the digital streams have a little different set of limits (because they are broadcast at a lower level than analog streams), but the FCC mandates the levels delivered to the consumer at the house entrance be no lower than 3 dBmV on any AM video channel. The maximum difference between two AM video channels anywhere in the band may not exceed 9dB. The difference between any two adjacent channels (6MHz spacing) may not exceed 1 dB. The variation over a 24 hour period may not exceed 2 dB for any channel. The total peak-to-valley response of the CATV transmission plant end to end may not exceed 4 dB. Those numbers are from memory, and it's been 20 years since I peformed an FCC Proof of Performance test, so some of the numbers may be off a bit, but the point is the FCC has very specific limits on how "bad" the cable signal can be. The fact is, in days past it was a little difficult to maintain all the specs for customers way at the end of a long amplifier cascade. Some cascades exceeded 30 trunk amplifiers, a bridger, 3 line extenders, and a house amplifer with more than 15 miles of cable in line, but today's CATV operators have turned to optical transmission nodes, limiting the number of amplifiers in cascade to 5 or 6 and the total coaxial cable length to less than a mile. With those parameters, it's fairly easy to maintain the FCC specs.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> Except that the reports of problems are too broad, and far more prevalent than reports of similar problems with CableCard equipped televisions.


I don't know that is an accurate assessment, at all. Certainly it was not the case for me. With my CC equipped television neither the CATV company (Time Warner) nor Mitsubishi were forthcoming about delving into the problem. In fact, I was unable through ordinary channels to get to anyone in either organization who even had the ability to understand the issues properly, let alone troubleshoot them. It was essentially impossible to even contact someone who knew what the VBI is.



bicker said:


> Regardless of personal proclivities, TiVo is the device at the end of the line -- it is up to TiVo to prove that the problem is further up the line, in each case.


They have a certification from Cable Labs. That is prima facia proof their box works with CableCards. What else would you have them do, unless you have not asked them to replace the TiVo under warranty. In that case, it ison you to request the swap.



bicker said:


> I produce a software application. We use operating system software on the customers' workstations for its front-end (Microsoft IE plus some Microsoft ActiveX controls). If our customers have problems, they turn to us, because we were the last company in the supply-chain. It is our job to diagnose every problem until we find a way to fix it within our code, or prove that the problem is a bug in someone else's code (typically by developing a simple open-source application that demonstrates the bug in the other company's code).


1. Are you a shareware author? If not, then my experience in the software world is far different than you describe. I'll give you an example: There is a persistent and easily reproducible bug when using Hummingbird Exceed and Microsoft Windows XP Pro. Every workstation exhibits the problem. Now despite the fact we are a billion dollar a year company and have site licenses and maintenance contracts from both companies costing many tens of thousands of dollars, both companies refuse to even look at the issue, insisting it is the other's problem.

2. If some but not all of your customers are reporting problems on one type of hardware, but not on any others, and most of your customers are not reporting a problem on any hardware, then what do you do? In the case of a particular brand of PC, it might be possible for you as a developer to purchase a few of the PCs to try to reproduce the issue, but how can TiVo obtain a sample of your CATV plant?

3. If you were having a problem with your TV set, would you try to force Sony to fix the problem, or would you put it on the CATV company to prove their signals were meeting standards? How is your TiVo any different? Have you obtained thorough certification documents from measurements made at the end of your cable drop which prove the signal is within specs for intermodulation distortion, hum, signal levels, multipath distortion (casued by poor return loss), ingress, signal to noise ratio, and signal flatness?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I read enough television-specific forums to know that televisions are not having CableCard problems to the extent that the S3 is. You're welcome to disagree, but that's what I've seen, definitively.

I'm not a shareware author. I work for a small company just like TiVo. The burden always falls on us. If not, we're the ones who the customer holds responsible, not Microsoft. Is it hard? Yes. It's hard. That's why our customers pay us for our software. If it was easy, they'd expect the software for free.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

Jack D said:


> Here is my story.
> 
> First S3: random macroblocking on all stations at various times but more often than not.
> Replaced
> ...


Just an update in case anyone can benefit from my experience. I finally had a Comcast tech come out to check out the signal. It's a real crap shoot with these guys but I got lucky because the guy really seemed informed. He knew all about S3s and cable card issues, etc. He did not give me the "it's probably your TIVO" crap which seems to be the default when a rep gets to the end of their knowledge base. Anyway, he checked the inside signal which was pretty strong and that led him to suspect that the signal was actually too strong at the outside box. He checked it and said that the fittings were very old and that the signal was, in fact, too strong out of the box, which created a lot of noise. He swapped out the old fittings and ordered an outside box maintenence which he could not do. So today the guy came and did something to the box and voila! It cleaned up the signal and, at least for the last few hours, I have not noticed any macroblocking problems. What a relief.

He also ordered two new cards for me but I wanted to wait to install these until I saw if the outside box maintenance corrected the problem. He said that a lot of the techs get sloppy and when they replace a card they just put it back into circulation so it is not unusual to get a lot of bad cards floating around in the system. Anyway, I've got the new cards coming on Friday and I will keep watching for macroblocking over the next day or so. If I don't see the problem again, I'll just cancel the new cable card install.

What a relief to get someone who knows what he is doing! Why is the level of knowledge of these guys so variable? That is clearly the fault of Comcast.

Other than that:

1. I haven't had to restart the TIVO because of a tuner dropping out since I first posted.

2. I had the experience one more time of the "live TV" button calling up the menu instead of switching tuners. Rebooted and it was ok again. Haven't seen it again.

3. I've noticed, from time to time, the sound dropping for a second or so but I can't say if that is related to the TIVO or had something to do with the signal problem I was experiencing. I will have to watch for a while to see if it still happens.

Hope this is useful to someone.


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## crmlht (Aug 25, 2006)

needs to be a sticky


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> I read enough television-specific forums to know that televisions are not having CableCard problems to the extent that the S3 is.


Based on what statistical analysis? Despite what it may seem, that is not a smart assed question. One's impressions often do not hold up under statistical analysis, and a proper analysis may uncover relationships which are not immediately obvious. More importantly, in this case I suspect the fraction of CableCard capable TVs whose users get CableCards is much smaller than the fraction of S3 owners who opt for CableCards. In fact, I submit it is the rare S3 user who opts for only OTA HD content, while getting a set top terminal or PVR from the Cable company for a TV is not that much more of a hassle than getting the CableCard. I suspect most CC ready TV owners haven't even bothered with CC, or if they have a significant number of them may have given up and simply gone for the set top terminal. Compare that with the S3, where a set top is really not a viable option, and few if any TVs require *TWO* CableCards



bicker said:


> You're welcome to disagree, but that's what I've seen, definitively.


What I have seen is also not statistically significant, but it is based on direct observation of my own situation. The TV had many, many more problems on an ongoing basis with its one CableCard than my S3 has had with 2 CableCards, one of which came straight out of the TV. Indeed, I had so many problems with the CableCard I rarely made use of it, relying instead on the CATV company's PVR as a tuner. If I had not been anticipating the release of the S3, I would have sent the CC back and never bothered further with it. I certainly would never have posted my woes in any forum. I suspect the same may be true of many CC capable TV owners.



bicker said:


> I'm not a shareware author. I work for a small company just like TiVo. The burden always falls on us. If not, we're the ones who the customer holds responsible, not Microsoft.


One can try to hold whomever they like responsible, but it has little to do with reality. In this particular case, there are 5 responsible parties: 
1. TiVo 
2. The CATV company 
3. The manufacturer of the CableCard 
4. The manufacturer of the CATV encryption equipment (possibly the same as 3) 
5. Cable Labs

Cable Labs certifies the first 3 entities for interoperability. Setting aside individual unit failures, they are responsible for making sure the devices manufactured by the entities will work with each other. Any systemic failure not related to #4 must be addressed by them, and one simply cannot say, "It's TiVo's fault." Again, back to my analogy which you so blithely ignored, if your application works perfectly well with every PC running Windows XP except for Compaq PCs, and you determine some piece of hardware on those PCs prevents your code from operating properly, what do you (as a company) do?

I can give you two other actual scenarios I am fighting right now: Acronis True Image croaks when using certain Logitech USB mice / Keyboards on Compaq systems. Acronis, Logitech, and Compaq are all refusing to address the issue.

I have Sunrocket VOIP service. I used to have Vonage, but I was having service issues. I dropped Vonage because they had such lousy customer service. After moving to Sunrocket, however, I still had the same service issues. Sunrocket had better customer service, and worked with me to isolate the issue, but then refused to work with me further because the source of the issue was not in their network. They referred me to the CATV company, who also refuses to work with me because it may not be in their network, either, and they lack the tools to trace the issue to its source.

These are both cases where the involved parties have more responsibility in the matter than TiVo does in general with transmission issues. If the CATV company's encryption gear is faulty, it is not TiVo's responsibility to fix it. If the CATV company's CableCards are faulty, it isn't TiVo's responsibility to fix it. If the CATV company's transport gear is faulty, it isn't TiVo's responsibility to fix it. If someone else's receiver works on the same set of gear as the TiVo does not, then it is suggestive there may be something wrong with the TiVo. Verifying this can be done by swapping out the TiVo, or by providing TiVo with hard data showing all the transmission gear owned by the CATV company is functioning well within prescribed limits. If the hard data shows the equipment is not operating within prescribed limits, then there is no reason to bother TiVo, because it isn't their problem. The statement, "more people are having problems with S3 TiVos than CC capable TVs" is meaningless in this context, and provides TiVo with nothing they need to fix.

My sister lives in a rural area. Several times her TiVo has been fried by nearby lightning, and she fairly frequently misses a show becasue the power fails. By your reasoning, she should complain to TiVo because it doesn't work well with the low quality power provided by her utility company and demand they fix the problem.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MrJinxo said:


> Eventually the guy had to use pliers to pull the card free. Inserted the new card but never did get to finish the install. A screen popped up saying a Firmware update was in progress. The cable guy said that was pretty much the kiss of death. The weird thing is the screen came up for the card that was working, that we left alone, not for the new card.


Did you get this resolved? I had a similar issue on initial installation. I had a CC operational (more or less) in my Mit5subishi TV when the S3 arrived, so I moved the card over myself and called the CATV company for a hit. The card initialized with no problems. When the installers came out a couple of days later with an additional CableCard, inserting the new card caused a similar failure to the one you describe. Replacing it with a different card cleared up the failure on the first card and allowed both to properly initialize (after we found and fixed an unrelated issue). I made sure the installers had more than 1 CableCard with them when they came out, because we had to change out the CableCards in the TV four times befgore finding one which was halfway stable.



MrJinxo said:


> The cable guy says he has only had that issue pop up on Tivo installs, never when putting the cards into HD sets.


That's really not surprising, since the issue seems to be the second (faulty) card seems to lock up both cards. Since TVs only have 1 CC slot, the effect never manifests in just that way.



MrJinxo said:


> The official Tivo site says the firmware update is part of the process that can pop up and that you should not stop it. Don't turn the power off & don't pull the card or you can fry it. So don't pull the card ever during the update only the process can go on forever if the card dies for, apparently, no reason.
> 
> 
> > That is taking the advice to the extreme. If the update does not advance after 24 hours, you have a bad card on your hands in the first place, and shutting off the TiVo isn't going to make it any worse.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Jack D said:


> He checked it and said that the fittings were very old and that the signal was, in fact, too strong out of the box, which created a lot of noise.


Actually, neither connector problems (old or otherwise) nor high levels will result in noise. The primary sources of noise in a CATV system are ambient temperature thermal noise and amplifier noise. Thermal noise is fixed by the ambient temperature. It varies with ambient temperature, but the difference in noise between 244K (-20F) and 311K (100F) is not all that huge. At 300K (80F), thermal noise runs about -69dBmV, if I recall. A "pure" signal injected into a passive coax system at a level which will exit the far end at 0dBmV will come out with a signal / noise ratio of 69dB. Increasing the level by 10dB will reduce the relative noise by 10dB, resulting in a S/N of 79dB. Amplifier noise is dependant upon amplifier design, but a typical CATV amplifier has a noise figure of about +9dBmV, which means a "pure" signal coming into the amp at +9dBmV will have a 69dB S/N ratio leaving the amp. The total amplifier noise depends on the number of amps and their noise figures, but the point is the total of amplifier and thermal noise is fixed. Increasing the levels on the system will not make noise worse, and depending on just where the signal increase is effected, will tend to make the relative noise (S/N ratio) better. So was the guy lying when he said the signal levels were too high? Probably not. While noise levels and ingress (interference coming into the CATV system from outside RF carriers) are in effect improved by high signal levels, distortion is greatly worsened by increased levels. Third order distortion in particular jumps 3dB for every 1dB increase in signal level. Maintaining a CATV system is a balancing act between the best achievable S/N and S/Ingress figures and the lowest achievable second and particularly third order distortion levels.

In addition, even a "pure" input signal will be problematic for a receiver if it is too high in level. If there is only one channel on the input cable, then the signal level can be fairly high before it will cause problems for the receiver. Even then there are reasonable limits. If the input signal consists of many channels, then the maximum input level which can be withstood without significant errors drops precipitously. So what is "good" and what is "bad"? If the signal level for an analog channel is lower than 0dB, many sets will start to display noticeable snow on that channel. If the signal level for any channel exceeds 10dBmV, it may cause issues (usually beats) with other channels, particularly adjacent channels ad channels whose levels are much lower. Digital signals are run lower in level than analog channels, but the rules still apply.



Jack D said:


> I have not noticed any macroblocking problems. What a relief.


I have seen this term before in this forum, but I am not sure to what it refers. Does it refer to a momentary splash of blocks across the screen? If so, the proper term is "pixelization". If not, what is it? Pixelization will tend to occur whenever there are errors in a digital video frame, particularly if the frame is an I frame. Errored bits in a B frame usually produce somewhat less noticeable effects.



Jack D said:


> What a relief to get someone who knows what he is doing! Why is the level of knowledge of these guys so variable? That is clearly the fault of Comcast.


Well, that is easy to say. Installers are fairly well paid, but their salary and working conditions are not such as to generally attract people with degrees in physics or engineering. Techs are somewhat more highly paid, and have somewhat better working conditions, but again a professional scientist or engineer is not too likely to take such a position. What's more, the ones who are very technically savvy move up (or out) quickly in any organization, leaving the more routine jobs to those whose abilities are not greater than the position demands. In short, you're not going to find Albert Einstein or Buckminster Fuller serving up fries at the local burger factory, and you won't find them climbing poles for the CATV company, either.



Jack D said:


> 3. I've noticed, from time to time, the sound dropping for a second or so but I can't say if that is related to the TIVO or had something to do with the signal problem I was experiencing. I will have to watch for a while to see if it still happens.


No broadcast stream is perfect on reception everywhere, and from what I have read from Josh Diner, satellite video streams - especially HD streams - have really trashy audio from time to time. I would not be at all surprised to find the same in CATV transmissions.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> I have seen this term before in this forum, but I am not sure to what it refers. Does it refer to a momentary splash of blocks across the screen? If so, the proper term is "pixelization". If not, what is it? Pixelization will tend to occur whenever there are errors in a digital video frame, particularly if the frame is an I frame. Errored bits in a B frame usually produce somewhat less noticeable effects.


When you see relatively large squares of solid color or otherwise incorrect image on the screen because you lost the differential data to fill them them in, macoblocking seems like a perfectly descriptive term to me.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> ...snip...
> 
> These are both cases where the involved parties have more responsibility in the matter than TiVo does in general with transmission issues. If the CATV company's encryption gear is faulty, it is not TiVo's responsibility to fix it. If the CATV company's CableCards are faulty, it isn't TiVo's responsibility to fix it. If the CATV company's transport gear is faulty, it isn't TiVo's responsibility to fix it. If someone else's receiver works on the same set of gear as the TiVo does not, then it is suggestive there may be something wrong with the TiVo. Verifying this can be done by swapping out the TiVo, or by providing TiVo with hard data showing all the transmission gear owned by the CATV company is functioning well within prescribed limits. If the hard data shows the equipment is not operating within prescribed limits, then there is no reason to bother TiVo, because it isn't their problem. The statement, "more people are having problems with S3 TiVos than CC capable TVs" is meaningless in this context, and provides TiVo with nothing they need to fix.


You left out the part that Tivo is the only one in the chain that has a financial interest in getting your S3 working and whether Tivo likes it or not, its up to them to get bugs worked out elsewhere in the system. Otherwise revenues drop and some day the company has to close.

Problem detection can be helped along by having tools in place that point to precisely where the problem is. None of this "we haven't heard of this problem", so it much be the cable company. An example is where users got partial recordings because of "Amber Alerts". On the page that tells you the details about the shortened recording, it could say that the recording was terminated early due to cable company sending a "insert technical term" signal. To avoid this in the future, cable company needs to " describe in precise terms what should be done". Otherwise, users just assumed that the S3 just decided on its own to stop recording and starting thinking about how they're going to return it for a refund.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> What I have seen is also not statistically significant


That cuts both ways. There is no reason to believe that the problem is not TiVo-specific. There is no statistically significant data indicating that. We are all just projecting our own opinions of what is reality. In some cases, I think some folks are projecting what they hope rather than what they believe. I guarantee you that that is not what I'm doing.



> if your application works perfectly well with every PC running Windows XP except for Compaq PCs, and you determine some piece of hardware on those PCs prevents your code from operating properly, what do you (as a company) do?


We don't write software for personal computers.

In one case, our application wouldn't run on a customer's old-version mainframe operating system. What did we do? We gave the customer the option to upgrade or to refund the customer's money, no questions asked.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

JimPa said:


> You left out the part that Tivo is the only one in the chain that has a financial interest in getting your S3 working and whether Tivo likes it or not, its up to them to get bugs worked out elsewhere in the system. Otherwise revenues drop and some day the company has to close.


Bingo.



> Problem detection can be helped along by having tools in place that point to precisely where the problem is.


That's an essential aspect of robust design. In the maniacally biased hypothetical presented above, my company would build in fault detection and report specific information indicating precisely which of the resources we rely on failed, and in what way. (We have such health monitoring built into our systems.) We then work with our customers to contact the vendors of these other systems, with the diagnostic information from our application showing their failure.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> Actually, neither connector problems (old or otherwise) nor high levels will result in noise. The primary sources of noise in a CATV system are ambient temperature thermal noise and amplifier noise. Thermal noise is fixed by the ambient temperature. It varies with ambient temperature, but the difference in noise between 244K (-20F) and 311K (100F) is not all that huge. At 300K (80F), thermal noise runs about -69dBmV, if I recall. A "pure" signal injected into a passive coax system at a level which will exit the far end at 0dBmV will come out with a signal / noise ratio of 69dB. Increasing the level by 10dB will reduce the relative noise by 10dB, resulting in a S/N of 79dB. Amplifier noise is dependant upon amplifier design, but a typical CATV amplifier has a noise figure of about +9dBmV, which means a "pure" signal coming into the amp at +9dBmV will have a 69dB S/N ratio leaving the amp. The total amplifier noise depends on the number of amps and their noise figures, but the point is the total of amplifier and thermal noise is fixed. Increasing the levels on the system will not make noise worse, and depending on just where the signal increase is effected, will tend to make the relative noise (S/N ratio) better. So was the guy lying when he said the signal levels were too high? Probably not. While noise levels and ingress (interference coming into the CATV system from outside RF carriers) are in effect improved by high signal levels, distortion is greatly worsened by increased levels. Third order distortion in particular jumps 3dB for every 1dB increase in signal level. Maintaining a CATV system is a balancing act between the best achievable S/N and S/Ingress figures and the lowest achievable second and particularly third order distortion levels.
> 
> In addition, even a "pure" input signal will be problematic for a receiver if it is too high in level. If there is only one channel on the input cable, then the signal level can be fairly high before it will cause problems for the receiver. Even then there are reasonable limits. If the input signal consists of many channels, then the maximum input level which can be withstood without significant errors drops precipitously. So what is "good" and what is "bad"? If the signal level for an analog channel is lower than 0dB, many sets will start to display noticeable snow on that channel. If the signal level for any channel exceeds 10dBmV, it may cause issues (usually beats) with other channels, particularly adjacent channels ad channels whose levels are much lower. Digital signals are run lower in level than analog channels, but the rules still apply.


Well whatever he did worked. So there must have been some sort of noise problem that was fixable. I tried to find out what the outside maintenance guy did but so far no one has been able to tell me. I supose it could have been a coincidence that the signal just cleared up after the guy did the work but I tend to think there was a cause and effect.



lrhorer said:


> I have seen this term before in this forum, but I am not sure to what it refers. Does it refer to a momentary splash of blocks across the screen? If so, the proper term is "pixelization". If not, what is it? Pixelization will tend to occur whenever there are errors in a digital video frame, particularly if the frame is an I frame. Errored bits in a B frame usually produce somewhat less noticeable effects.


Signal breakups. Small boxes of color but much larger than a pixel. Call it what you want.



lrhorer said:


> Well, that is easy to say. Installers are fairly well paid, but their salary and working conditions are not such as to generally attract people with degrees in physics or engineering. Techs are somewhat more highly paid, and have somewhat better working conditions, but again a professional scientist or engineer is not too likely to take such a position. What's more, the ones who are very technically savvy move up (or out) quickly in any organization, leaving the more routine jobs to those whose abilities are not greater than the position demands. In short, you're not going to find Albert Einstein or Buckminster Fuller serving up fries at the local burger factory, and you won't find them climbing poles for the CATV company, either.


You don't need or want Albert Einstein to come out and fix your cable. He probably wouldn't be any good at it anyway. It is simply a managerial problem. They need to do a better job of screening and provide a better level of training. Even if the good ones move up; they need to ensure that the ones coming in are of a certain capability and then train them properly for the specific job. They also need to create the proper set of incentives. If the main way the guy's performance is measured is if he gets all his calls done that day, that is going to lead to quality problems. This should not be an impossible job.



lrhorer said:


> No broadcast stream is perfect on reception everywhere, and from what I have read from Josh Diner, satellite video streams - especially HD streams - have really trashy audio from time to time. I would not be at all surprised to find the same in CATV transmissions.


Just that I didn't notice this problem with my Comcast PVR and I do with the TIVO.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

vman41 said:


> When you see relatively large squares of solid color or otherwise incorrect image on the screen because you lost the differential data to fill them them in, macoblocking seems like a perfectly descriptive term to me.


That's the description I've come to use for what you describe. For example, very dark scenes, on say, the SciFi Channel, can have MB because of the very very low bitrate, MPEG decoder issues, etc.

However, what is usually seen on a image from Comcast, and what I believe most are talking about here is indeed pixelization, where the image has a tear, or there is a band, or small area of the image that breaks up and then clears up and looks fine. MB OTOH, is something that typically will not go away depending on the source material and the equipment being used, it remains constant. A light scene will not have the problem, a dark scene, or a scene with a large expanse of the same color will have the problem.

Pixalization=an intermittent signal transmission problem.
Macroblocking=a problem with the source material and/or combined with the equipment being used to view.

Sounds the same in some respects, but is actually different, with different causes and looks different when viewing an image that is exhibited the problem.

In my opinion of course, but macroblocking was something that was heavily discussed and dissected with regards to some Denon DVD players a few years back and it's not the same thing as the "pixelization" I see in digital TV broadcasts.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> In the maniacally biased hypothetical presented above, my company would build in fault detection and report specific information indicating precisely which of the resources we rely on failed, and in what way.


That is completely impractical. How, exactly, is TiVo supposed to obtain the information on how a CATV transmission system halfway around the country is failing or not? A CATV spectrum analyzer costs $10,000 - $25,000, depending on features. Third order distortion test sets cost on the order of $8,000, and most require coordination with an individual in the CATV NOC who can shut off the modulation of a channel. Multipath interference analyzers can run $30,000 or more. Flatness test systems (also called sweep systems) cost upwards of $40,000 and require a unit in the headend to transmit test signals. Older systems caused a significant blip in the picture every 5 seconds or so while in operation. Newer systems avoid the picture interference, but require communications between the headend and the field, and generally require data be inserted into the Vertical Blanking Interval of one or several broadcast channels. Building a TiVo with all these systems embeded in it would cause each unit to cost easily $60,000, and even then it wouldn't work with every CATV system since each system uses different test gear that test things in different ways. This is not the world of software, and the hardware of interest simply cannot be transported back to TiVo's test bench for testing.

For a more modest cost (but still increasing the cost oft he TiVo by perhaps a hundred dollars or more), the unit could attempt to monitor the digital stream in and out of the CableCard, but since the stream is encrypted going into the card, there are severe limitations on what it can determine. After all that cost and trouble, however, we don't have anything much more on which to go for most of the reported issues than we do now. You can wave your hands all you want, but until you can show the CATV system where the problem is occurring is well within specs, and changing the TiVo doesn't help, there is nothing TiVo can do. (Or Motorola, or Scientific Atlanta, or anyone else.)

If you really believe TiVo is inferior to TV manufacturers in this respect, and if you really believe you can get a TV manufacturer to force the CATV company to fix an intermittent problem of this nature, then you clearly won't mind calling Mitsubishi and telling them they need to fix two reproducible problems with their WD-62628 televisions when used in the San Antonio Time Warner Cable system, will you? The first problem is the CableCard gets autonomously re-initialized every few days. This causes a loss of all premium channels until a call is made to the CATV company to send a hit to the card. The second, seemingly not related to the first, is the TV Guide loses its programming every couple of weeks or so when a CableCard is installed. It looses not only the specific channel info but also the information concerning which CATV system is in use. Reprogramming the guide takes several hours. Related to this is the fact the automatic time set does not work when a CableCard is installed.

Get back to me with their answer, will you?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

JimPa said:


> You left out the part that Tivo is the only one in the chain that has a financial interest in getting your S3 working


That's not necessarily true, although they do have the most skin in the game. I, for example, am thinking very seriously of dropping Time Warner Cable and going with one of their competitors because of their refusal to work on certain broadband issues.



JimPa said:


> and whether Tivo likes it or not, its up to them to get bugs worked out elsewhere in the system.


There is over a million miles of CATV plant in the U.S., with over 10,000 headends and millions of amplifiers. Where do you suggest they start?



JimPa said:


> Problem detection can be helped along by having tools in place that point to precisely where the problem is. None of this "we haven't heard of this problem", so it much be the cable company. An example is where users got partial recordings because of "Amber Alerts". On the page that tells you the details about the shortened recording, it could say that the recording was terminated early due to cable company sending a "insert technical term" signal.


I'm not sure what you are saying. An amber alert should not interrupt a recording, just the video content, although there may be some issue of which I am unaware if the signal drops from HD to SD. Either way, detecting such an incident would require incorporating a video analyzer into the TiVo, and one which can handle all the various ways video insertions are implemented througout all the thousands of CATV systems. In case you are wondering, there is no standard means of inserting alerts, and any one of more than a dozen methods may be used by your local CATV provider. Adding the circuitry to a TiVo to handle this would probably make it much larger and definitely would add several hundred dollars to its cost, if it worked at all. I certainly don't wnat to pay an additional $400 or $500 for the privilege, do you?



JimPa said:


> To avoid this in the future, cable company needs to " describe in precise terms what should be done".


Done for what? And now you are saying the CATV company needs to do something. A moment ago you were saying TiVo needs to do something. Again, what do you suggest?



JimPa said:


> Otherwise, users just assumed that the S3 just decided on its own to stop recording and starting thinking about how they're going to return it for a refund.


What percentage of S3 users are having the problem? It simply is not possible to achieve 100% customer satisfaction, and any company who spends large amounts of money to appease a small fraction of its demographic is headed for bankruptcy a lot faster than one which simply experiences problems with its bleeding edge.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Jack D said:


> Well whatever he did worked. So there must have been some sort of noise problem that was fixable.


That's my point. If levels were high, it was highly unlikely to be a noise issue. It was almost certainly a distortion issue, or else just plain too much signal at the back of the TiVo. Digital signals, BTW, are genrally speaking very tolerant of noise, but very intolerant of distortion and interference. When they do fail because of noise, they do so abruptly. Analog signals first get grainy, then get more and more snow until there is a barely recognizable picture underneath lots of snow. Digital reception is perfect... perfect... perfect... gone! as the S/N ratio drops.



Jack D said:


> I tried to find out what the outside maintenance guy did but so far no one has been able to tell me.


He balanced the plant. Each amplifier has variable controls for gain, tilt, and fine flatness control, as well as plug-in attenuators and plug-in equalizers. If rough balanced properly, the plug-in hardware shouldnever need to be changed, but despite automatic gain and tilt controls, the plant can drift over time and needs to be tweaked. The problem may have been just in the amp closest to your house (within a few blocks), or it could have required balancing starting miles away, with each amp contributing just a tiny bit to the overall problem.



Jack D said:


> I supose it could have been a coincidence that the signal just cleared up after the guy did the work but I tend to think there was a cause and effect.]/QUOTE]
> No, it's most likely the plant was out of balance. It happens. It's even possible the problem could have been BOTH noise and distortion, if one section of the plant had low levels and another section was cranked up to try to compensate, but with high levels I suspect it was only a distortion issue.
> 
> 
> ...


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> That's not necessarily true, although they do have the most skin in the game. I, for example, am thinking very seriously of dropping Time Warner Cable and going with one of their competitors because of their refusal to work on certain broadband issues.
> 
> There is over a million miles of CATV plant in the U.S., with over 10,000 headends and millions of amplifiers. Where do you suggest they start?
> 
> ...


After reading your post, it would seem a miracle that anyone's Tivo is working, but we know that's not the case. 

One of the issues here is the great unknown about how many people as a percentage of the total have problems with their S3 (including cable company problems) to the extent where S3s are being returned for refund and loss of future subscription revenues.

Tivo did loose over $52 million during the last 12 months. Maybe that's telling us something.

Personally, I hope they get the S3 bug free and work out a system where cable company problems can be found and fixed. Don't particularly care how its done, as long as its done.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> Actually, neither connector problems (old or otherwise) nor high levels will result in noise. The primary sources of noise in a CATV system are ambient temperature thermal noise and amplifier noise. Thermal noise is fixed by the ambient temperature. It varies with ambient temperature, but the difference in noise between 244K (-20F) and 311K (100F) is not all that huge. At 300K (80F), thermal noise runs about -69dBmV, if I recall. A "pure" signal injected into a passive coax system at a level which will exit the far end at 0dBmV will come out with a signal / noise ratio of 69dB. Increasing the level by 10dB will reduce the relative noise by 10dB, resulting in a S/N of 79dB. Amplifier noise is dependant upon amplifier design, but a typical CATV amplifier has a noise figure of about +9dBmV, which means a "pure" signal coming into the amp at +9dBmV will have a 69dB S/N ratio leaving the amp. The total amplifier noise depends on the number of amps and their noise figures, but the point is the total of amplifier and thermal noise is fixed. Increasing the levels on the system will not make noise worse, and depending on just where the signal increase is effected, will tend to make the relative noise (S/N ratio) better. So was the guy lying when he said the signal levels were too high? Probably not. While noise levels and ingress (interference coming into the CATV system from outside RF carriers) are in effect improved by high signal levels, distortion is greatly worsened by increased levels. Third order distortion in particular jumps 3dB for every 1dB increase in signal level. Maintaining a CATV system is a balancing act between the best achievable S/N and S/Ingress figures and the lowest achievable second and particularly third order distortion levels.
> 
> In addition, even a "pure" input signal will be problematic for a receiver if it is too high in level. If there is only one channel on the input cable, then the signal level can be fairly high before it will cause problems for the receiver. Even then there are reasonable limits. If the input signal consists of many channels, then the maximum input level which can be withstood without significant errors drops precipitously. So what is "good" and what is "bad"? If the signal level for an analog channel is lower than 0dB, many sets will start to display noticeable snow on that channel. If the signal level for any channel exceeds 10dBmV, it may cause issues (usually beats) with other channels, particularly adjacent channels ad channels whose levels are much lower. Digital signals are run lower in level than analog channels, but the rules still apply.
> 
> ...


Too high a signal can cause tiling and freezing.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> That is completely impractical.


How can something that we do be "completely impractical"? It is not only practical, it is essential. Are there difficulties? Yes, always. It is the developers job to solve the problems, not whine about how hard doing so is. And if the current bottom-line answer is that there is currently no way to provide something with that level of robustness, management has to make the decision to release the crappy product and live with the ramifications of the dissatisfaction that it will evoke (accept the criticism), or to shelve the product until such time that a better solution can be arrived at. My company has done the latter. No comment regarding the former.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

JimPa said:


> After reading your post, it would seem a miracle that anyone's Tivo is working, but we know that's not the case.


Not at all. There are millions of miles of CATV plant, but the average user is only connected to a few miles or less of that plant, and only to one headend. This measn barring a real TiVo failure, most TiVos will work just fine. The bad plant, amplifer, or encryption device which affects one user is very unlikely to affect another user, which is the entire point. TiVo simply cannot be responsible for millions of potential problems around the country. Not even a giant like AT&T could manage that feat unless it owned every mile of plant and obtained revenue from evey mile of plant. TiVo obtains zero revenue from the CATV plant.

And actually, TV tuners (TiVo S3 included) do an astounding job of recovering a useable signal over a very broad range of signal profiles and under the assault of an almost unbelievable number of different issues. You would not believe the garbage I have seen going into a TV set which nonetheless produced very acceptable pictures on most channels, with some seriously bad exceptions.



JimPa said:


> One of the issues here is the great unknown about how many people as a percentage of the total have problems with their S3 (including cable company problems) to the extent where S3s are being returned for refund and loss of future subscription revenues.


True.



JimPa said:


> Tivo did loose over $52 million during the last 12 months. Maybe that's telling us something.


I doubt it. The S3 has only been out a couple of months, and has been selling like mad. The 12 month loss no doubt has other sources, and indeed may not mean much. Our company has been losing double-digit millions of dollars a year ever since it was formed almost 20 years ago. We are by far the healthiest company in our sector, and financially we are in great shape. Few large corporations can afford not to report a loss for the year.


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## GotATiVoToo (Apr 20, 2002)

It would be really great if the discussion in this thread could return to bugs, specifically.... (hint, hint)


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

JimPa said:


> Too high a signal can cause tiling and freezing.


Absolutely, even if the signal itself is reasonably free from distortion. The point, however, is that high levels in the core of the CATFV plant will increase triple-beat, composite third order distortion, cross modulation, and other third order anomalies by 3 dB for every 1 DB increase in signal level. This means the signal can go very rapidly from perfectly acceptable to completely unuseable if the plant levels are not maintained, even if the signal levels behind the receiver are quite acceptable. I've seen an input to a TV with a nearly perfectly flat 3dBmV level have so much distortion the pictire was virtually unwatchable. Some sections of plant are also much more susceptible to level drift. Usually customers at the very end of a very long amplifier cascade will see many more problems than those near the headend. This is a major reason among several others why most large CATV system operators have drastically shortened their amplifier cascades by installing fiber nodes which are directly fed from the headend or a hubsite. In the past, some customers were serviced by more than 27 amplifiers in cascade and more than 15 miles of coaxial cable plant. Now most large cable companies limit their cascades to 4 or 5 amplifiers in cascade, and no more than a mile of coaxial cable.

Even so, I have still had several trouble calls in to my CATV company over the last 6 years due to signal drift causing interruptions in my boradband service. The most recent was four months ago. Sometimes these events were accompanied by noticeable decreases in video qualiity, sometimes not.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

GotATiVoToo said:


> It would be really great if the discussion in this thread could return to bugs, specifically.... (hint, hint)


Yes, that would be nice, but I'm enjoying the heck out of lrhorer's very interesting posts about cable systems and how they operate so hopefully the two subjects could co-exist, or maybe a different thread for cableco specifics.

OTOH, what he's posting is directly related to assumed/imagined/real S3 bugs mentioned here so it does have relevancy.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> The S3 has only been out a couple of months, and has been selling like mad.


We have no reason to believe that.


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## wcoast1973 (Mar 14, 2004)

The Series3 does not allow you to enter a DHCP Client ID. While my DHCP server doesn't require it, I like to name all devices on my network for easy management and reporting purposes. It is tough when it is just TIVO followed by the service number.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Ahh, good point.

I assue your DHCP server is a system, not a router, then? My D-Link router DOES let me set a discovered dynamic DHCP client to a new, mnemonic and a 'static DHCP' IP.

Windows and unix systems seem to send the respective WINS or system name back and that shows up (conveniently) as the default Client ID, sometimes - although sometimes it's just a MAC address (the second IP interface on one of my PCs shows up as just the MAC address, while the other one shows up as the WINS name that system is assigned!)


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## wcoast1973 (Mar 14, 2004)

Correct, I run my own internal DHCP servers, so haveing a settable hostname is nice. However, I was just looking at one of my Series2 boxes, and the option is gone there as well (though it is still set to a friendly name from when I originally set it up). It looks like 8.x removed the functionality.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

I don't think this is a bug but am wondering if others are seeing this also.

I just got my S3, requested a HD recording, came back while it was recording & noticed it was also recording a suggestion. I wanted to surf so pressed channel down, got the message that my HD recording would be stoped if I changed channels.

Both cards are set up & test out ok. 

I would think the suggestion should stop recording if I attempt to change the chanel not the requested recording. I would be annoying to have to stop the suggestion then change the channel.


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## Jack D (Nov 3, 2006)

alyssa said:


> I don't think this is a bug but am wondering if others are seeing this also.
> 
> I just got my S3, requested a HD recording, came back while it was recording & noticed it was also recording a suggestion. I wanted to surf so pressed channel down, got the message that my HD recording would be stoped if I changed channels.
> 
> ...


It's not that hard to do. Just go to the info screen for the tuner recording the suggestion and select the recording button. It will ask you if you want to stop the recording. Select yes, then you can surf on that turner.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

True, it's not hard to stop a suggestion. 
But (and here's the wonky part) my husband wants to just sit down turn on the unit & flip channels. He's canceled recordings I've waited weeks for because he wanted to surf.<deep breath>
I thought with a duel tuner, as it is with a S2 non-duel, if there was a suggestion recording I'd be able to simple turn it off from the "Are you sure you want to change channel? screen" with out having to navigate to the suggestions screen.

The point is if a suggestion is being recorded & I want to change the channel I shouldn't have to navigate anywhere to stop the recording.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

alyssa said:


> He's canceled recordings I've waited weeks for because he wanted to surf.<deep breath>


Did you teach him a lesson so he won't do it the next time?


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

alyssa said:


> my husband wants to just sit down turn on the unit & flip channels. He's canceled recordings I've waited weeks for because he wanted to surf.<deep breath>


Buy him his own unit, or better yet, buy yourself the S3 and let him has the S2.

You don't need to navigate anywhere, you just have to make sure you're on the tuner recording the suggestion when you change the channel. One button press. It would be better if the TiVo worked out it could silently cancel the suggestion though.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

btwyx, since you're also in Mountain View, has anyone called you for the pairing info yet?


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

c3 said:


> btwyx, since you're also in Mountain View, has anyone called you for the pairing info yet?


They called sometime last month.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

btwyx said:


> Buy him his own unit, or better yet, buy yourself the S3 and let him has the S2.


The S2 units were both mine. That didn't stop him. <eye's narrow> But I couldn't resist the financial help with the S3 & the lifetime transfer so it's 'ours'. I'm not sure if I made the decision or not.



btwyx said:


> You don't need to navigate anywhere, you just have to make sure you're on the tuner recording the suggestion when you change the channel. ...


OK, i seem to be missing something-how do I switch tuners?  To switch channels, I thought I'd have to turn off the suggestion recording then navagate back to live tv.

This is covered in the sticky at the top, right?  (at myself)

eta; found the 'live TV' button on my remote. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction-


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## cab2 (Sep 17, 2004)

alyssa said:


> OK, i seem to be missing something-how do I switch tuners?


To switch tuners:
while watching tv; 
Right arrow on the joystick to bring up the banner.
You will see two (red) dots on the right side border of the banner
to switch between tuners, just arrow up or down as the case may be.
When you arrow up or down, it will show you what is recording on that tunner.

If you are on Tunner 1, and down arrow to Tunner 2 and then press the [select] button, you switch to Tunner #2 (or vice versa)


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

cab2, alyssa already found the easier 'Hit Live TV' button method to switch tuners


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

cool,
thanks! Obviously, I've got a bit to learn about duel tuners.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Tuners can be your friends too (and each other's) - no need to resort to violence!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Audio stream selection display glitch:

A number of channels have multiple audio streams. If the streams are in different languages everything works fine, but if they all appear as "English" the bottom most stream always has a check mark next to it even if it isn't the stream that is currently selected.

Selecting a different stream will actually change to that stream, but the GUI will always say the bottommost stream is active.

I saw this with a program with 2 English streams and one with 3 English Streams.


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## Peter Creath (Feb 16, 2000)

Using digital audio output, I get a consistent "pop" when I switch from analog programming to digital. Changing between digital channels, no problem; changing from digital to analog, no problem. Changing from an analog channel to a digital channel, I get a loud burst of noise every time.

I have 8.0.1c, which got rid of a bunch of other audio glitches, but this one persists. It's definitely a TiVo glitch, though. The problem happens with a variety of decoders.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Is your audio out connected to an HT receiver or a TV? That may be at fault. I don't notice this at all (digital audio to Yamaha receiver), but then again, I hardly ever watch ive TV anyway


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## Peter Creath (Feb 16, 2000)

ashu said:


> Is your audio out connected to an HT receiver or a TV? That may be at fault. I don't notice this at all (digital audio to Yamaha receiver), but then again, I hardly ever watch ive TV anyway


It's connected to a NAD T-763 HT receiver. It's not just me, though. A colleague with a top-of-the-line Lexicon also reports the same problem. Your Yamaha may be swallowing the garbage data, which helps compensate for buggy digital sources.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

NAD? Lexicon? Gosh - contact your ISF calibrator or HT setup advisor or sumfin' - saying a Yamaha is 'swallowing junk data' and making it sound like the NAD or Lexicon can do NO wrong is as immature as saying Bose Rocks or Monster makes special cables that are worth the money.

All I'm saying is try a different transport/medium, possibly a 'cheap' receiver if you have on lying around (and can bring yourself to lay hands on it without gagging) 

This is the FIRST I've heard of this pop, and the vast majority of S3 posters here have HT systems with tonnes of variety in their (mostly avergae/run-of-the-mill) HT receivers. So it's natural to blame the unusal receivers you folks have.

I say craigslist that NAD and buy a Sony  The demand for nads on craigslist seems inordinately high! (I crack myself up!)

<edit>
Maybe your fancy receivers switch TOO quickly and don't use adequate separation between sources and pass on a mix of data for a short instant. Change your macro-based remote-controlled (you use one, don'tcha?) input/source switch sequence to insert an extra delay between the various source switching steps if at all possible.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Peter Creath said:


> Using digital audio output, I get a consistent "pop" when I switch from analog programming to digital. Changing between digital channels, no problem; changing from digital to analog, no problem. Changing from an analog channel to a digital channel, I get a loud burst of noise every time.
> 
> I have 8.0.1c, which got rid of a bunch of other audio glitches, but this one persists. It's definitely a TiVo glitch, though. The problem happens with a variety of decoders.


It's definitely a receiver glitch, not a Tivo glitch.

If it were a Tivo glitch, everyone would have this. And the vast majority of us don't, with a wide variety of receivers.

How many times do you switch from analog to digital ont he same source? Never, other than the S3, so you've never seen your receiver exhibit this behavior.

In any case, it's the receiver, not the S3. Unless you have some logic or tests you haven't posted.


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## Peter Creath (Feb 16, 2000)

Ah, I remember the good old days, when people were friendly, and gave each other the benefit of the doubt.

I don't see why people are terrified of admitting there's a bug in the S3. I'm not a detractor. I've had a TiVo since the beginning, and they sometimes have bugs. In this case, it's a bug that is hidden by many decoders; thus it's not surprising that the bug slipped through.

Many decoders drop sync for a large period of time (nearly a second or more) when the encoding of the incoming signal changes. This can cause unpleasant artifacts on DVDs and other sources which sometimes have rapidly changing audio coding. They also have a delay between when you press "play" and when you can hear audio. Some DVD players, etc., get around this by endlessly transmitting digital "silence" (e.g. when paused) to keep the decoder in sync.

The problem here is when the S3 encounters decoders that don't drop samples on an audio format change. These decoders may be in the minority, but that doesn't make them broken. The S3 doesn't transition cleanly, causing a "pop". Decoders that drop samples during a format change don't hear it.

To clarify the situation in which this is occurring: the decoder is connected by an optical digital audio cable. There is no analog connection between the S3 and decoder. When changing the S3 from an analog source to a digital source, it doesn't transition the data stream cleanly, and the decoder emits a pop.

This is occurring on two very good decoders from different manufacturers, hence it's not just a problem with my decoder. It's the S3.


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## Peter Creath (Feb 16, 2000)

ashu said:


> saying a Yamaha is 'swallowing junk data'


Sorry, an imprecise turn of phrase. I didn't mean that as a criticism of the Yamaha, but rather than it's discarding the invalid data rather than decoding it. This is usually due to the lag most decoders (including some very nice ones) have in decoding a new data stream.

I didn't intend to disparage your gear -- I apologize for any distress I may have caused.


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## rehr0001 (Sep 17, 2006)

In my case (with a Harman Kardan AVR8000) instead of getting a pop, I just lose the audio completely. Cycling through different DSP modes will sometimes get the audio back, but occasionally it requires putting the receiver in standby and then back on to reacquire the stream.

It happens everytime I switch to digital from analog, but not from digital to digital or digital to analog.

DD to PCM is the only workaround and that sucks.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Alright, so there's confirmation of an issue. Make a fresh thread (as well) for greater visibility - maybe there are others as well.

FWIW, I almost NEVER channel surf (and when I do, it is HD) - which may have prevented me from ever switching from A to D channels (albeit with ONLY the digital optical cable connected to my HT receiver, just as in your case).

As far as interpreting the potential cause of the pop - for analog channels, with optical as the only audio output, the buffered Live stream (with freshly encoded MPEG audio, with video) is sent out of the outputs. For digital channels, it is likely the original source (no encoding needed). It does seem feasible that a pop could occur. 


Or perhaps your receiver is just incapable of synching correctly (or quickly enough) between PCM and DD, Dolby Pro etc! Without actually switching the input/source! And the receiver introduces white noise and 'decodes' it and sends it off to your speakers! Possibly!


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

A couple of minor bugs: 
1. My S3 lost its DHCP lease 3 or 4 days ago. I finally noticed music wasn't working and found it hadn't succeeded in a download since Jan 5. My DHCP server said that the S3 was trying to get a lease every 5 minutes for several days, and the server was offering one to it, but the offer was being ignored. I had to reboot the S3 and everything then worked (the S3 stopped ignoring the DHCP server.) 

2. For the past 2 weeks I've been getting a daily message that one channel was being deleted. What is interesting, and the real reason I'm posting, is that I continued to get those messages during the period of no network connectivity! I had always thought the channel change messages were messages downloaded from TiVo, but evidently it's something local to my TiVo that's messed up. We'll see if they stop now that I've rebooted. 

3. Very minor interface issue. Before rebooting, the network and phone status showed the last connection failed (as indeed it had). After rebooting, it erroneously showed that same connection as having succeeded (it hadn't reconnected, or at least downloaded, anything yet as I verified by connecting).


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## abbydancer (Jun 16, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> TODO list strangness?
> 
> Sorry if this is a dup but i didn't see it when i searched. But the todo list seems screwy on my box.
> 
> When I go to todo and hit page down a few times, it seems eventually i will go too fast and the box needs to catch up to me. It will bong error noise me and refuse to page down (or down arrow)- if i wait a little bit it will 'catch up' and proceed. It may or may not do it again further down the list. It's a bit annoying becasue you never know if you have waited long enough- someimtes it needs a second other times like 10 or 15. If you 'rush' it and hit page down and it bongs you 3 differnt times it will dump you back to the top of the todo list. If you want to check on somethign a week or 10 days out it can take forever.


I have noticed this behavior also. I also have seen it on my Series 2, and possibly on the Series 1 as well.

I've noticed on my brand new Series 3 that on the System Information Screen it says that I have guide data to a particular day. However, the todo list only goes up to noon the previous day. I also can't search for shows after that time. It's no big deal, I just wait a day to schedule recordings, but it's kind of weird.

abby


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## CharterJames (Jan 29, 2007)

doopstr said:


> I really hope the delay bug isn't the same problem the 6412 has. Hopefully they fix that.
> 
> The delay bug and the crappy guide of the 6412 are the two main reasons why I would buy an S3. Looks like I will just wait until Comcast offers the Tivo software on the 6412 to see how that works out. I was actually hoping that the Tivo software would fix the delay problem on the 6412.


Can you point me to the 6412 (I'm assuming your talking about the Motorola DCT 6412) bugs - We are in the process of deplooying the 6416 in my market and I'd love to see if these bugs are present on that box (and if so push for resolution!)

Thanks

James


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## foamy909 (Mar 29, 2005)

mattn2 said:


> One new bug I have found ...
> 
> I have 3 repeat weekly recordings set up on channels w/o guide data (see QAM remapping w/o cable card for "OTA" stations for reason).
> 
> ...


I have seen the same issue with multiple history entries, but also saw a new glitch. I also have two weekly manual repeat recordings on HD locals that are QAM in-the-clear. I knew that both episodes were repeats, so I went into the to-do list and cancelled just the immediate upcoming episodes. When the time-slot came around, it went ahead and recorded them anyway.

I know that QAM is not fully supported, but I figured that it would be a good back-up to my OTA season passes. Annoying, in any event...


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## jcicala (Jul 24, 2005)

Here is a bug that I have yet to find a fix to:

On each cablecard I receive all of the channels that I am supposed to receive, however, I do not receive program guide information for most channels between 22-50. Instead of breaking the channels down by programs and what is playing, these channels (on both cablecards) just say REGULAR SCHEDULE.

My tivo has a hardwire ethernet connection to the internet and updates daily, just not the channels between 22-50. I reran guided setup several times but in light of all the problems I am reading about here I have not been daring enough to either reset , reboot or unplug the unit. Any ideas??? Thanks in advance

-------
TIVO S3 (Cablevision)
HDMI
Panasonic TH-42PX60U


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## lkinley (Mar 28, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> when you schedule a recording like that at the last minute while you are watching it- Tivo attempts to get the entire show out of the buffer. The buffer is broken up into chunks but they dont necessarily start or finish on teh hour or half hour. In your case the chunk that container the segment beginning at 6:00 started recording at 5:50. The box cant/doesn't truncate a chunk so it had to grab the whole thing starting at that time. If you go to the now playing to watch it- it would show a 40 minute recording but when you press play it will start at 6:00 in an attempt to not bother you with teh extra 10 minutes.
> 
> THe buffer chunks might start and stop at anytime (seems to maybe be based on file size instead of time- so it's random what minute it ends one chunk and starts another)
> 
> ...


When did this behavior change? This is not how any of my Series 1 TiVos work. When hitting record from Live TV buffer, it only grabs the time slot for the show, not any extra. When using my new S3 it grabbed extra and I thought it was a bug 

-Lance


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

lkinley said:


> When did this behavior change?


DirecTiVos have worked like this, I know the Series 2 DTiVos worked like this.

I'd geuss its the difference between DTiVos and analog ones, the S3 is more like a DTiVo.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

lkinley said:


> When did this behavior change? This is not how any of my Series 1 TiVos work. When hitting record from Live TV buffer, it only grabs the time slot for the show, not any extra. When using my new S3 it grabbed extra and I thought it was a bug


My guess is the difference on the S1 and S2 is that TiVo is doing the compressing of the signal on them, and can keep track of exactly what time corresponds to the beginning of the show since it knows the compression rate. On the S3 (and DTiVo) the signal is being compressed at the origin, and the TiVo doesn't know how much it's being compressed, so can't calculate the beginning of the show.


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## henryhbk (Jan 30, 2007)

I have noticed the fast-forward -> play logic isn't as good as on my S2. There are plenty of times where it's in FF2 mode and when pressing play either doesn't jump back the appropriate amount or even worse several times has jumped FORWARD the same amount (very annoying). The S2 was always perfect in the rewind from FF logic... This seems a step back.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

henryhbk said:


> I have noticed the fast-forward -> play logic isn't as good as on my S2. There are plenty of times where it's in FF2 mode and when pressing play either doesn't jump back the appropriate amount or even worse several times has jumped FORWARD the same amount (very annoying). The S2 was always perfect in the rewind from FF logic... This seems a step back.


It has been speculated tha this has something to do with compression NOT being under TiVo's control - the source is pre-compressed (HD or digital SD) and jumping back requires a unique, non-standard calculation for each video file, and VBR complicates things further!

On S2 units, the Fixed BitRate (in most/all cases IIRC) compression made the replay correction a known quantity to implement perfectly.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

ashu said:


> It has been speculated tha this has something to do with compression NOT being under TiVo's control - the source is pre-compressed (HD or digital SD) and jumping back requires a unique, non-standard calculation for each video file, and VBR complicates things further!


I've speculated on that. The flakyness is worse on more compressed channels. HD channels, which have a much higher bitrate, work fine.

DirecTivos never had this problem, so I hope it can be addressed by some software tuning. Hopefully in the next system update.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Sorry, it might have been mentioned in this thread already.. But I found a reproducible case of a slow motion kind of problem I mentioned in some other thread.

If you're viewing live TV, and 30 second skip to the END of live TV (i.e. now, and presumably also happens without the 30 sec skip enabled), I can consistently get the Tivo into a weird "slow motion video" effect.. But the audio is still playing fine. So it's like it's only playing every other frame for twice as long or something like that.

I've seen similar problems with recordings, but not reproducibly like this.


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## passatdream (Nov 15, 2005)

MikeCG said:


> The problem I was going to post about sounds like the one described above, but I think it occurs in a different way. What I observe is that the Replay button sometimes works properly, but often skips FORWARD so much that it requires 5-6 presses of the Replay button to get back to where it should be. It's not a late press of the Replay button.


I have almost the same problem. I can fast forward or rewind with one button press, but two or three button presses (medium or fast rewind/ff) sends the DVR into some kind of time warp. For example, if I press the fast forward button two or three times, I'll notice that it skips 1 then 2 then 3 then 8 minutes. It completely skips minutes 4 through 7 (just an example). I then have to rewind on slow to get back to where it should be. I have a Tivo Series 2, and this is not a problem on that box.

Chris.


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## ivorycassiopeia (Feb 5, 2007)

jcicala said:


> Here is a bug that I have yet to find a fix to:
> 
> On each cablecard I receive all of the channels that I am supposed to receive, however, I do not receive program guide information for most channels between 22-50. Instead of breaking the channels down by programs and what is playing, these channels (on both cablecards) just say REGULAR SCHEDULE.
> 
> ...


I don't have an answer to this, but I'm hoping someone does -- b/c I have the same problem!


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