# HR10-250 to Comcast + Series3 switch



## pnfisher (Mar 20, 2005)

I purchased an HR10-250 in November 2004 and recently made the jump to Comcast. Given all the good information this forum has provided over the years, I thought it would be useful to share my recent experience.

It's currently feasible to recoup the purchase cost of a Series3...

Comcast's current promotion for DBS customers is $25 off any package for 16 months, free HBO, and free install. Value: $400+
Used HR10-250s are going for lots on eBay. Value: $300+
Series3 can be found for as low as $600. See the "Best Price you have found on Tivo S3" thread in the TiVo Community Series3 forum.
$400 + $300 > $600

In my area, Comcast offers all digital channels via ADS (analog-digital simulcasting), more national HD channels than DirecTV (who cares about future HD channels if they can't be reliably recorded?), and they are even broadcasting SciFi in Dolby Digital.

I've generally been extremely pleased with DirecTV service, and I'm not sure what has happened to them of late. They were always on the cutting edge -- all digital, UltimateTV, DirecTivo, HD DirecTivo.

Ever since the announcement of the HR20 and the rise of Earl as the defacto DirecTV Internet spokesperson, it's been downhill for DirecTV. I honestly don't understand why they're alienating their highest paying customers and having them sign a new two-year contract to lease a device that cannot reliably record shows.

Without a reliable method to record and playback channels, what's the point of having 150 of them available in HD? I could care less.

However, if DirecTV wakes up and decides they should offer a stable, reliable, HD DVR platform, I'd be more than happy to come back -- Comcast doesn't have contracts.

Until then, my Series3 is working great -- feels like a much improved HR10-250.


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## jonra (Apr 1, 2005)

I agree with everything you posted, except....

Why not wait for Comcast to offer TIVO software on their own DVR this summer? This way you can get more service from the HR10-250 until then. 

I'm assumming whatever is on my TIvo DirectTV play list that will always be there for viewing after I cancel my DirecTV service?


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## trausch (Jan 8, 2004)

I agree 100% and am considering the same. I currently have 3 Direct Tivos (HR10-250 + 2 80 HR Tivos) and no contract with Direct TV. My plan is to jump ship as soon as Comcast has the Tivo software on the 64xx models. I will then buy one series 3 and rent two 64xx. So I will essentially have 3 HD Tivos! 

I think I should be able to recoup most of the upfront costs for the switch as you pointed out in your original post. My only concern is the monthly cost structure for the Tivos. I hope to transfer my lifetime from Direct TV to Tivo for the Series 3 but how much of a premium will I pay for the Tivo software on the 64xx boxes and two cable cards for the Series 3 from Comcast? I have read that Comcast will be charging a $15 a month fee per Tivo box (standard $10 fee plus $5 Tivo fee). Currently I pay $10 to mirror my Direct TV service to the other two boxes. If I switch it will be $60. The other concern is that the hard drive on the 64xx is small, much smaller than the 80 HRs I am used to on mu other Tivos.


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## pnfisher (Mar 20, 2005)

jonra said:


> Why not wait for Comcast to offer TIVO software on their own DVR this summer? This way you can get more service from the HR10-250 until then.


The Tivo software on the Moto platform is still an unknown -- it might ship on time, or it might be delayed for another year. The Series3 works now, Comcast has a good DBS to Cable switch offer now, and the HR10-250s are selling well on eBay. Once specific national DirecTV MPEG4 announcements are made, with dates set in stone, I would assume that HR10-250 prices on eBay will start to fall. We're in a sweet spot to leave DirecTV and "trade in" our old, used HR10-250s for new Series3s.

Also, the Series3 does a great job recording OTA -- gotta have Veronica Mars and Smallville in HD.  (The only local channel Comcast doesn't offer in HD here is CW.)


jonra said:


> I'm assumming whatever is on my TIvo DirectTV play list that will always be there for viewing after I cancel my DirecTV service?


That's correct.


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## pnfisher (Mar 20, 2005)

trausch said:


> My only concern is the monthly cost structure for the Tivos.


The monthly cost structure isn't overly burdensome for me -- I'm more than willing to pay in order to be able to reliably record and playback shows.


> I hope to transfer my lifetime from Direct TV to Tivo for the Series 3...


If you want to take advantage of the lifetime transfer to Series3 offer, today is the last day you can purchase a Series3 -- the Series3 must be purchased by the end of today and activated by March 2, 2007. See http://www.tivo.com/vip for more info.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

pnfisher said:


> I've generally been extremely pleased with DirecTV service, and I'm not sure what has happened to them of late. They were always on the cutting edge -- all digital, UltimateTV, DirecTivo, HD DirecTivo.
> 
> Ever since the announcement of the HR20 and the rise of Earl as the defacto DirecTV Internet spokesperson, it's been downhill for DirecTV. I honestly don't understand why they're alienating their highest paying customers and having them sign a new two-year contract to lease a device that cannot reliably record shows.


Paul's sentiments echo my own; I was an enthusiastic DirecTV fan up until I started using the HR20. Since then, their reputation has been steadily eroding. The policy of denial they enforce with respect to the serious flaws in the HR20 software, as well as their failure to resolve the flaws in a timely manner (I've given them almost half a year now) has convinced me that it's time to switch.

As a last ditch effort to repair what I see as a seriously damaged customer relationship, I wrote a letter to Chase Carey , president and CEO of DirecTV; which to date has been ignored. I don't know what else I could be expected to do as a customer beyond that.

I will also be taking advantage of the Comcast switch offer, and picking up a Series 3.


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## pdawg17 (Mar 1, 2003)

How much is it to cancel commitment with D*? $12/month?


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

pdawg17 said:


> How much is it to cancel commitment with D*? $12/month?


Yes, and I am sure they charge tax and at least one receiver fee on top of that.
I swear there was some sort of $9.99 option, but the retention person I spoke with denied it existed.

Incedentally, I was speaking to him regarding the contract term I was stuck with when I got my HR20. The fact that I was trying to cancel service specifically because the HR20 has huge, documented bugs making it worthless as a DVR was not a reason they consider valid for releasing my obligation.

In other words, I agreed to a contract term in exchage for their new fancy "Plus!" DVR, but when it didn't work as advertised, I am still stuck with the contract term.

That's what I call customer-centric.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm in the process of switching to Verizon FIOS for many of the same reasons. I also picked up an S3 Tivo for $615 and Verizon has the cablecards available to enable full-channel reception and recording of all subscribed channels. Tivo is currently running a special where you can get three years of Tivo service for $299 ($8.31 monthly). Verizon also offers a DVR but it does not use Tivo software, only has one set of IR codes, and has limited recording capacity (only 160GB). 

The rationale for using a S3 Tivo with Comcast vs. their DVR with Tivo software would be a no-brainer for me. You can upgrade the Tivo hard drive to whatever size you choose and you also own the hardware.

DirecTV has shot itself in the foot, as far as I'm concerned, for the following reasons:

1. They dumped Tivo for their own DVRs. I wouldn't mind except that the product has not lived up to expectations. Many DTV customers, including myself, signed up for the DVR service based on the fact that they offered a Tivo-based platform. It's become a classic bait-and-switch scenario.

2. Commitment requirement. My reason for switching to Verizon is mainly because all of my current hardware is mpeg2 and any future HD channels will require mpeg4 receivers and DVRs. Now we're back to reason No. 1. I'd have to get all new hardware and a 2-year commitment to use an inferior product. Neither Verizon or Comcast require any such commitment. My feeling is, when you offer a superior product then you won't have to worry about your customers leaving. It seems like the whole commitment scenario started right around the time when DTV started overcompressing their channels like crazy, resulting in reduced PQ all around. I have DVDs that I made from DTV programs recorded 4-5 years ago and the PQ has noticably deteriorated since that time.

3. Customer up-front fees for leased hardware. Not only is DTV holding me ransom by forcing me into a commitment with hardware I don't want, they want me to pay extra for the privilege! I already know that FIOS offers superior picture quality vs. DirecTV, at least for the moment with mpeg2 channels. If and when DTV gets the additional HD channels online that they've promised I may consider switching back, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I haven't seen what HD looks like with mpeg4 yet so the jury's still out until I do. I suspect FIOS will still win out. Did I mention that Verizon doesn't charge an extra fee for "HD access?"


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## mjbvideo (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm a 10 year DTV customer with 3 Tivo units (1 is HD) and this info is enough to make the switch. I'll see if I can get the numbers to match up. I am extremely frustrated with DTV. I can't ever see dumping my Tivo for that piece of junk HR20 in order to watch their 100 HD channels (vaporware?).


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> It's become a classic bait-and-switch scenario.


How is this a classic bait and switch? They are not advertising they have TiVo anymore. When they did advertise they had TiVo they delivered a TiVo.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> How is this a classic bait and switch?


Perhaps this was a bad choice of words but here's how I see it. Many people that signed up with DirecTV, before the introduction of mpeg4 hardware and NDS DVRs, did so based on the fact that DTV offered Tivo-based DVRs (i.e., the bait). Now they're switching everything over to mpeg4, eventually rendering any DTivo or HDTivo obsolete. You have to get rid of the Tivo DVRs in favor of DTV's POS DVRs if you want to be able to record any new HD channels.

While it may not necessarily be considered classic bait and switch, it's still a similar situation. DirecTV is now moving us in a direction that's different than what we signed up for and they're not giving us much of a choice about it. I feel like they're herding me towards the showers without giving me a towel or a bar of soap.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Trouble is Verizon's not known for treating customers any better. There's just as much, perhaps even more, chance that Verizon will screw things up worse. Between lying to Congress to get their fiber setup excluded from shared networking to their outright blocking of services they're certainly not deserving of anything resembling "trust". Just ask anyone that's had even slight trouble with their service what Verizon's "support" is like. You'll not come away impressed.


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## phodg (Mar 18, 2002)

I have Comcast coming out tomorrow for an install. I have 3 DirecTivos and have been a DirecTV customer since the USSB days, but it's time for a change. No commitment from Comcast makes it a no-brainer for me.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Hmmm, the no commitment aspect makes it more interesting. Are they actually shipping a Tivo-based solution yet? A leased, HDTV box running Tivo with no commitment would definitely raise my interest. 

I'm really not all that thrilled by the idea of using an S3 with cablecards. I mean, why put up with re-encoding it again? The SD quality off DirecTV has been fabulous, much better (to my eye) than what I've seen standalone boxes deliver. And since a great deal of the programming is still going to be in SD I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with the re-encoding.


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## pnfisher (Mar 20, 2005)

wkearney99 said:


> Hmmm, the no commitment aspect makes it more interesting. Are they actually shipping a Tivo-based solution yet?


AFAIK, Comcast is expected to start offering Tivo-based DVRs on their Moto platform sometime this year.


> I'm really not all that thrilled by the idea of using an S3 with cablecards. I mean, why put up with re-encoding it again?


The whole point of having cablecards is so you don't have to reencode -- digital channels on the Series3 are stored using the bitstream sent over the coax. If your cable company offers ADS (which Comcast does in many of their markets), then you'll have a 100% digital channel lineup -- there's no loss of quality when recording/playing back digital channels with the Series3 -- just like with the HR10-250.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Guess which one is on its way into the trash?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Uhhh...the little ugly one? (actually, neither is all that pretty)

Is it just me or does this look like a picture of a Tivo S3 butt-F-ing a HR20?  

yeah, OK, just me


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## jimbra (May 2, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> I'm in the process of switching to Verizon FIOS for many of the same reasons. I also picked up an S3 Tivo for $615 and Verizon has the cablecards available to enable full-channel reception and recording of all subscribed channels. Tivo is currently running a special where you can get three years of Tivo service for $299 ($8.31 monthly). Verizon also offers a DVR but it does not use Tivo software, only has one set of IR codes, and has limited recording capacity (only 160GB).
> 
> The rationale for using a S3 Tivo with Comcast vs. their DVR with Tivo software would be a no-brainer for me. You can upgrade the Tivo hard drive to whatever size you choose and you also own the hardware.
> 
> ...


My wife and I had the "TIVO" discussion tonight, when I informed her that Direct TV will no longer support TIVO HD in the near future. Her immediate response was then who will.

Bye Bye Direct TV. We are contacting Comcast and as much as I hate Comcast customer service and billing. We love our TIVO more.


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## pesos (Mar 23, 2003)

pnfisher, I'm curious about this because I am considering doing the same and am in your area. I have been very happy with my hr10-250 -- although I don't watch nearly the volume of tv most people here seem to. I tivo the daily show, bill maher, and heroes - and sopranos when it's on. I have been lucky enough never to have any issues with my hr10. however I am concerned about the eventual move to mp4 of course - and have been thinking about moving to comcast since i'm now using them for internet anyway.

the whole looming sdv thing is my only hangup -- what are your thoughts there? (I am not super knowledgeable about it, but the posts here regarding sdv seem to have somewhat dried up)...

thanks!
Wes


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

jimbra said:


> My wife and I had the "TIVO" discussion tonight, when I informed her that Direct TV will no longer support TIVO HD in the near future. Her immediate response was then who will.
> 
> Bye Bye Direct TV. We are contacting Comcast and as much as I hate Comcast customer service and billing. We love our TIVO more.


I called Comcast this morning, they are giving me the "Dish Switch" $25/month discount for 12 months.

The best part? Get this: They offered an install date of TOMORROW. With a time window of TWO HOURS. Try getting that from DirecTV.


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## jimbra (May 2, 2002)

bizzy said:


> I called Comcast this morning, they are giving me the "Dish Switch" $25/month discount for 12 months.
> 
> The best part? Get this: They offered an install date of TOMORROW. With a time window of TWO HOURS. Try getting that from DirecTV.


I hear ya, loud and clear, DTV shot itself right in the foot, BIG TIME. All 8,988 of them on my space friends list that equates to a $763,906.00 loss per "month" loss to Direct TV.

DIRECT TV ARE YOU LISTENING??????????????????????????????????

Just on my end, what about other ends??????


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

pesos said:


> the whole looming sdv thing is my only hangup -- what are your thoughts there? (I am not super knowledgeable about it, but the posts here regarding sdv seem to have somewhat dried up)...
> 
> thanks!
> Wes


Why wait and spend more money to get less? It is easy to switch, costs relatively nothing and you can cancel anytime. If svd becomes a reality and it turns out you don't like it, cancel and move on. In the meantime, you can enjoy more hd, a fast and reliable hd dvr, better pq and save alot of money.

I switched last year and saved about $1500 and this year signed up for the "triple play" - all channels, hd dvr, cablecard, hs internet, and unlimited phone service including long distance for about $150 per month. Compared to 2 years ago (when I had D*, comcast and verizon), I'm saving about $90 per month.

My hd lineup includes all hd locals, 4 hd movie channels (hbo, cinemax, starz and sho), discovery hd, INHD, pbs HD, national geographic hd, A&E HD, MTV HD, Golf HD, NFL HD, TNT HD, UHD, CSN HD, and ESPN 1 and 2 HD.

The phone service is great (louder and sharper than traditional phone service), the internet is very fast and reliable, and the dvr (which was FREE) is the fastest I have ever used, has an excellent UI, and has never missed a recording.

I recently had fios installed and opted to stay with comcast mainly due to price. IMHO, although fios is great - pq, internet speed, phone service and channel lineup were about the same as comcast (fios has HDNET but no INHD or A&E HD) but fios costs about $50/month more.

If and when there comes a better alternative to comcast, I will switch. Life is way too short to wait and pay for less. I think it is prudent to be concerned about TODAY rather than what tomorrow may or may not have in store.


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## trausch (Jan 8, 2004)

bizzy said:


> Guess which one is on its way into the trash?


You have to be careful mating these two boxes. Cross species procreation like this is dangerous. My guess is the child of these two boxes would be an unholy disaster.


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## pesos (Mar 23, 2003)

ok, I got circuit city's (emeryville) last s3, and they PMed costco for $599.99 plus tax.

Comcast is coming Saturday to hook up digital silver (with hbo), free installation. The rep said that his screen showed 12 mo of $25 off, but that the contract showed 16 mo of $25 off, so he recommended I double-check the contract I sign on Saturday.

I had him add the $5/mo hd-dvr package so my housemate can use the comcast dvr and we get the HD channels. He also put two extra cable cards on the order for $1.50/mo

Am I forgetting anything? Is my triple lnb directv dish worth anything?

thanks again!
Wes


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

pesos said:


> Am I forgetting anything? Is my triple lnb directv dish worth anything?


you could try cooking with it.


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## jimbra (May 2, 2002)

bizzy said:


> you could try cooking with it.


We are spray painting ours flat black pointing at the sun and adding a rotisserie scewer so we can Bar B Q ribbs and chicken this summer. This sure will save on LP gas and charcaol briquets.


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## jimbra (May 2, 2002)

bizzy said:


> you could try cooking with it.


We are spray painting ours flat black pointing it at the sun and adding a rotisserie scewer so we can Bar B Q ribbs and chicken this summer. This sure will save on LP gas and charcaol briquets.


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## pnfisher (Mar 20, 2005)

pesos said:


> the whole looming sdv thing is my only hangup -- what are your thoughts there?


If sdv is deployed in a meaningful way in the Bay Area, I can sell the Series3 to someone in a market that isn't using sdv. I was able to sell the HR10-250 for quite a bit -- unlike sdv, which is a potential issue, mpeg4 on d* is a done deal -- people are willing to pay for Tivo, even if it can't view all the avalable channels.

If sdv is deployed out here, by that time, the Comcast Moto HD DVR with the Tivo interface should be available... I'd sell my Series3 at that point and pick up one of the Moto boxes.

Having said that, I have a Series3 now, and it works great now.


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## pesos (Mar 23, 2003)

Cool - that's basically the conclusion I came to. The S3 is working beautifully with my OTA antenna - tomorrow comcast should be here with the cable cards and then the hr10 hits ebay...

-Wes


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## pnfisher (Mar 20, 2005)

pesos said:


> The S3 is working beautifully with my OTA antenna - tomorrow comcast should be here with the cable cards and then the hr10 hits ebay...


Good luck on the install! Make sure the installer turns on ADS at the headend so your Series3 will pick up the digital versions of the regular analog channels.

Regarding OTA, I've found that the OTA tuner in the Series3 is quite a bit better than the HR10-250. The HR10-250 was never able keep a lock on KNTV, but the Series3 holds the signal perfectly.


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## jergio (Nov 23, 2001)

I'm thinking of switching from Directv to Comcast and have been following this thread with interest. I'm curious about you guys in Berkeley- how does the Comcast picture compare to Directv? I have a 43" Pioneer and Sci-Fi and FX don't have that great of a picture even with calibrating with the HDNet test pattern.

Thanks

-Jerry


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## sox09 (Mar 18, 2007)

I am new on the board here and saw this discussion. I was a DTV customer until I moved to a vacation home and now we have comcast here. I am planning on going back to DTV when we move back but problem is no tivo in the interim. Does anyone know if I can still use the HR10-250 for cable without satellite and get some TIVO here! Thanks!


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## Cruzan (Dec 21, 2001)

I will be out of contract with DTV in June. I'd switch to Comcast for an S3 in a second but here in Santa Cruz we don't have an ABC affiliate and Comcast doesn't offer ABC in HD here (they import the San Francisco ABC affiliate in SD.) 

I get the LA affiliate today in HD and I'm afraid if I ever switch to the HR20 the bozos at DTV will cancel it. 

Is anyone else here from Santa Cruz? How are you dealing with this?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

You lost me with this line:



pnfisher said:


> Ever since the announcement of the HR20 and the rise of Earl as the defacto DirecTV Internet spokesperson, it's been downhill for DirecTV.


Why the swipe at Earl?


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## mayall (Oct 6, 2004)

Cruzan said:


> I will be out of contract with DTV in June. I'd switch to Comcast for an S3 in a second but here in Santa Cruz we don't have an ABC affiliate and Comcast doesn't offer ABC in HD here (they import the San Francisco ABC affiliate in SD.)
> 
> I get the LA affiliate today in HD and I'm afraid if I ever switch to the HR20 the bozos at DTV will cancel it.
> 
> Is anyone else here from Santa Cruz? How are you dealing with this?


I'm in Santa Cruz and in the same situation as you. Comcast in Santa Cruz does not carry a good HD lineup (although they do have NBC and PBS which you can't get here from DirecTV).

As soon as Comcast in Santa Cruz matches DirectTV, I will also get the S3 and switch.

Will Mayall


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> ... Many people that signed up with DirecTV, before the introduction of mpeg4 hardware and NDS DVRs, did so based on the fact that DTV offered Tivo-based DVRs (i.e., the bait)...


I have never seen any numbers to suggest that having Tivo increased DirecTV's subscription rate. I would love to see someone produce any statistical evidence that offering Tivo was good for DirecTV. Other than the 17 people who will immediately reply that they personally signed up because of Tivo. The only evidence I have ever seen shows that having a DVR (any dvr) reduces churn over an account without a DVR.

There are currently over 100 million cable and sat subscribers in the US. There are less than 2 million standalone Tivo subscribers. And since many Tivo owners have multiple Tivo units, there are far less than 2 million active Tivo accounts. That makes it hard to conclude that Tivo is a major force in deciding which provider people chose to get TV from today much less 2 years ago.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> I have never seen any numbers to suggest that having Tivo increased DirecTV's subscription rate. I would love to see someone produce any statistical evidence that offering Tivo was good for DirecTV. Other than the 17 people who will immediately reply that they personally signed up because of Tivo. The only evidence I have ever seen shows that having a DVR (any dvr) reduces churn over an account without a DVR.
> 
> There are currently over 100 million cable and sat subscribers in the US. There are less than 2 million standalone Tivo subscribers. And since many Tivo owners have multiple Tivo units, there are far less than 2 million active Tivo accounts. That makes it hard to conclude that Tivo is a major force in deciding which provider people chose to get TV from today much less 2 years ago.


I personally signed up because of Tivo and the fact I could have 2 Dtivos at the time both SD for $4.99 a month DVR fee and $4.99 mirroring fee. I was able back then to get them for no up front cost. I also like the fact I could "modify" them in order to extract recordings, etc. I also learn a lot about Linux, which is helping me in my current job.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> I have never seen any numbers to suggest that having Tivo increased DirecTV's subscription rate.


Add me to the list of people who went to Direct TV only because of TiVo. When I first got TiVo in 2000, Directivo was not available. After two years of TiVo with Comcast, I switched to Directivo for the two tuners, free TiVo subscription with total choice premiere, and more recording space. My original standalone TiVo only had 9 hours of recording time at best quality.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I went to DirecTV 5 years ago becasue of HD. Comcast kept draging their feet with HD so I left them for DirecTV. Then I discovered their dual tuner SD TiVo and I fell in love. That was the reason I stayed with DirectV. Now that Comcast has HD here and the S3 came out I'm in the process of leaving DirecTV. If they would have stayed with TiVo I probably would have stayed, assuming they improved the picture quality to what it used to be. But they decided not to stick with TiVo so the only reason I'm still with DirecTV is because of the HDnet channesl which comcast doesn't offer. but at some point soon I'm going to need to dump DirecTV completely. I don't mind it now since the deal I have with Comcast saves me $55 a month which more than covers DirecTV for me now.


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