# Bad pixelation sporadically on both CC & according to TWC strong signal...



## js281 (Sep 20, 2006)

So I am at a loss here, I wanted to post a message to see if anyone had the same problems and if so how was it resolved?

The problem that I am having is my Series 3 HD Tivo is having sporadic pixelation problems and many times it is to the point where some of the channels are unwatchable. The problem occurs on several of the digital channels (both HD & standard) but seems to be more prevalent on the HD channels. I have had 2 Time Warner Cable reps come out to check it out, and they both say that I have a strong signal (last one even checked to the box in the neighbors yard), they recommend replacing the cable cards. I would not have a problem doing this but the fact that this problem occurs on both cable cards has me worried (and I find that a little odd).

On a little diagnosis of my own, when the pixelation starts occurring I can goto the diagnostics screen on the Tivo and the channels strength well fluctuate between strong (97) to no signal, yet TW says there is no problem with the signal. Could this be a sign of 2 bad cable cards? Anyone else have similar problems?

I am in Houston and currently get service through Time Warner (Comcast).

Thanks for any assistance anyone might be able to provide.


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## colin1497 (Nov 20, 2006)

Someone said something about putting a terminator on the OTA antenna. You should be able to do some searches and find the post. I don't know if this will help or not in your case.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

I'll bet you find the frequencies of the bad channels are all near each other. On mine, I have these problems with all the channels in the 417 - 429 MHz range. Your TiVo displays this info for both cable cards on one of the menu options; note that the channel numbers have no relationship to the actual frequencies, and two adjacent numbers may be on widely different frequencies. Thankfully, all my premium movie channels are in the 600 MHz range and unaffected. Verizon replaced both cable cards with no change. The tech checked the signal strength and errors on the affected channels and all looked good. In fact, the signal strength was on the marginal side, so he actually reduced the attenuator to boot it a little.

I found that by severely attenuating the signal, the bad channels cleared up, but some of the good ones just went black. This, coupled with the test results and the fact that my STB is working perfectly gives strong indication that nothing is wrong with the signal and the problem is in the S3. TiVo is sending me a new box on Monday - we'll see what happens.


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## bluetex (Apr 24, 2005)

js281, 
What channels? I've got a TWC connected S3 in Houston on 2 cable cards. I've seen the same on channels 323 (KUHT-D/PBS Digital), 311 (CBS-HD), 309 (FOX-HD) and sometimes on 342 (Noggin-SD/Digital). I've had to switch over to Standard Def on Tuesday's American Idol premiere, and we usually have been bailling out on CSI (original) for dropouts.

I've not yet gone to the diag screen to see about signals, but I'll keep an eye out.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

In my case I've convinced it's just a poor transmission from the cable company (Comcast). I get pixellation and audio drop outs (fortunately not too frequently) on a variety of channels, both HD, digital, and analog cable stations. Since I have my Series 2 still hooked up to the same line and it still records some of the same shows as my Series 3, I checked a recent episode of The Daily Show on Comedy Central that had a dropout on my Series 3. The same problem existed on the Series 2.

I've also seen the problem occur in a friend's house whose cable runs directly into his TV.

Perhaps I'm just willing to settle for imperfections, but I haven't even bothered to try to get this issue addressed (and it's been a problem for me for the past several years). Every once in a while a certain program will have numerous drop outs, but the problem usually only occurs once during a show and only in a small percentage of the shows I watch. If it were a more frequent occurrence, I would attempt to get it fixed (though given Comcast's service record I'd be surprised if they would do anything to help).


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## js281 (Sep 20, 2006)

bluetex said:


> js281,
> What channels? I've got a TWC connected S3 in Houston on 2 cable cards. I've seen the same on channels 323 (KUHT-D/PBS Digital), 311 (CBS-HD), 309 (FOX-HD) and sometimes on 342 (Noggin-SD/Digital). I've had to switch over to Standard Def on Tuesday's American Idol premiere, and we usually have been bailling out on CSI (original) for dropouts.
> 
> I've not yet gone to the diag screen to see about signals, but I'll keep an eye out.


Bluetex,
I don't really watch many of the regular stuff, but Fox HD (pixelation during 24 is so aggravating I had to switch over to the old antenna standby to record if I wanted to catch something that was remotely watchable) CBS HD & WB HD (or whatever they call it now). I am planning swapping out both CC's come Monday and will report back my findings after I can get them all subscribed again. Problem is so very frustrating because it's a sporadic problem and it comes and go's at the worst times (like when i want to the Tivo to record something and I am not home).

Let me know how your troubleshooting goes and I will do the same.

Thanks,


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## js281 (Sep 20, 2006)

jeffsinsfo said:


> In my case I've convinced it's just a poor transmission from the cable company (Comcast). I get pixellation and audio drop outs (fortunately not too frequently) on a variety of channels, both HD, digital, and analog cable stations. Since I have my Series 2 still hooked up to the same line and it still records some of the same shows as my Series 3, I checked a recent episode of The Daily Show on Comedy Central that had a dropout on my Series 3. The same problem existed on the Series 2.
> 
> I've also seen the problem occur in a friend's house whose cable runs directly into his TV.
> 
> Perhaps I'm just willing to settle for imperfections, but I haven't even bothered to try to get this issue addressed (and it's been a problem for me for the past several years). Every once in a while a certain program will have numerous drop outs, but the problem usually only occurs once during a show and only in a small percentage of the shows I watch. If it were a more frequent occurrence, I would attempt to get it fixed (though given Comcast's service record I'd be surprised if they would do anything to help).


Unfortunately on some of the dropouts when the digital audio goes, it will cause my received (HK AVR635) to lock up which requires a hard power off of the receiver to alleviate the problem.


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## bluetex (Apr 24, 2005)

I put a little time into the signal strength tool with a few of the channels which were dropping. Chan 323 (KUHT-DT/PBS) gets a signal that goes from 87 to 91. It's a pixelating mess. HBO-HD (both) and the HDNet package all hits around 95 on average, Fox-HD is never above 92 either.

Here's the rub, I only get issues on one card. When I use the Cable Card tools and I can choose which one I'm using, it's only card 2 that has the pixelation problems.

I'm thinking I have one card which is marginal in a few signal bands. I'm tempted to swap the cards between slots but I'm too fearful that my card pairings will disconnect and I'll be left with far more than a pixelation problem.


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## msantti (Sep 12, 2006)

I have TWC Houston also.

I get occasional dropouts on channel 10 and 12 on SD and a couple of the HD channels also. Not all the time.

I record a show for the wife on the channel 10 spanish station at 7:00pm. I find if it has the problem, I stop the recording, go to another channel, then start recording that. I then go back to channel 10 and start recording and is usually fine. I was thinking maybe it was card #1 was bad and I replaced it but I still have the same problem.


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## tivophilia (Aug 6, 2006)

Yes! I'm a prisoner or Time Warner Houston too! Same pixelation problem!

A few days ago my slot 2, after working for a couple of weeks, started pixelating intermittently, first in the local stations' HD signals, then in the premium HD channels. Now the pixilation continues in the local HD signals and the card doesn't display the local channels at all. The "conditional access" menu says it's not connected, but repeated hits from TWC don't wake it up.

This is my third series3 box, and through them I've run 14 cable cards (I've masochistically kept count). 

Surely I couldn't have had three boxes presenting one defective slot 1 and >three< defective slots 2s. But then surely I couldn't have come across only one of 14 cards which will work for more than a week.

TWC will not put cards on their trucks (series3 owners here have to pick up cards in person), so I'm out here alone. I must assess three variables for deficit--signal strength, the slots, the cards. I'm reduced to working on a purely Vegas-odds system, and I could use betting advice: It is more likely the card or the slot that's defective?

The latest TiVo CSR says that my signal strength--94 on the Tivo meter for both slots--isn't enough. TWC checked it today and said that signal strength is "fine." TWC's "fine" is meaningless to TiVo, of course. The CSR was incensed when I suggested since TiVo wedded itself to the cable industry, there should be at minimum an understanding among the parties on the calibration of meters.

So Questions 2 and 3: Is 94 on TiVo's scale "not enough"? Can cable companies boost signal strength for individual residences?

Let all of us Houstonians start calling (713) 341-8080 tomorrow and tell them to read this thread!


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## magaggie (Apr 9, 2002)

Thank goodness! I called them just now, we've been having this problem for several weeks, since the beginning of December, when there was a 2 day outage. One of my buddies on a different board said that his folks had a similar problem with TWC Houston, and that they'd installed filters or something, which was causing the signal strength problem, but obviously I can't get anyone to fess up about it over the phone.

They're sending someone out to test the signal tomorrow between 2 and 4, but who knows what they'll see - we tend to see the problem most pronounced during prime time.


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## JamesENicholson (Oct 13, 2006)

wow, i'm having the same problems too. with this many people having problems, i don't think it can be the tivo s3 or the cards. i think it is the stinking twc houston signal.


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## Unfocused (Jan 24, 2007)

tivophilia said:


> Yes! I'm a prisoner or Time Warner Houston too! Same pixelation problem!
> 
> A few days ago my slot 2, after working for a couple of weeks, started pixelating intermittently, first in the local stations' HD signals, then in the premium HD channels. Now the pixilation continues in the local HD signals and the card doesn't display the local channels at all. The "conditional access" menu says it's not connected, but repeated hits from TWC don't wake it up.
> 
> ...


If I recall correctly, I've never had signal over 94 EVER on my local Time Warner. I was very concerned when the tech installed it a few weeks ago and I check the signal and found it under 90, (86, IIRC) but all the channels were coming in clear, and have every since. I've checked it a few times since out of curiosity.

I'll double check this when I get home, but my memory says your latest TiVo CSR is incorrect.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

If you are having pixelation problems, please take a second and check a couple of the problem channels and post the frequencies here. It is real simple and should only take less than a minute:

While watching a bad channel, go into Diagnostics under Account and System Information. Both tuners show up in this screen, so make sure you check the channel number shown to find the right one, then just write down the frequency from the line below the channel number. You don't need all the zeros; just use the first three digits for MHz.

Here is what I have found with two different S3 boxes and 4 cable cards (I'm with Verizon FiOS in north Texas): all channels on the 411 MHz, 417 MHz, 423 MHz and 429 MHz frequencies are bad. All other channels below and above those frequencies work perfectly. Both boxes have the identical problem, and all bad channels have fluctuating signal strength. When I pull one of the cable cards out and put it in my TV, all channels come in perfectly with a rock solid signal. This seems to prove it is NOT a problem with either the cable card or the signal coming out of my wall. Since two different S3 boxes have the identical problem, I'm wondering if there is flaw with the S3 tuners in these frequencies?

Just for reference, anyone with FiOS in North Texas might want to compare the channels they receive with mine. Here are the channels that have the problem in my house: 50, 53, 54, 61, 62, 63, 65, 72, 76, 78, 90, 101, 111, 129, 134, 135, 160, 164, 171, 180, 190, 204, 210, 218, 230, 234, 235, 305, 307, 440.


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## jklst14 (Nov 16, 2006)

I have Comcast Philadelphia and I have this same problem on three channels (SciFi, Versus and TVLAND) on my series 3 Tivo. But when I plug the Cable Card directly into the TV, all three channels are fine.

As suggested, I looked under Diagnostics, and all three of the pixelated channels are on frequency 625 mhz.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Thanx jklst14. Unfortunately, all of my 625 MHz channels work perfectly. So I guess that indicates that this is not a universal problem with the same frequencies in the TiVo tuners. That would have been too good to hope for. But maybe if enough of us focus in on this problem we'll get it figured out. I hope to find someone with FiOS in the North Texas area who does NOT have the problem on the same channels that I do so maybe I can drag my box over there and test it. If it works, them Verizon might have to accept it is somehow related to their signal. We shall see. . .


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

tivophilia said:


> So Questions 2 and 3: Is 94 on TiVo's scale "not enough"? Can cable companies boost signal strength for individual residences?


94 is definitely high enough if your root problem is a noisy signal or not-strong-enough signal. It's pretty much irrelevant if the problem is too strong of a signal (IMO, but note I'm not an expert in the area).

TiVo does not measure strength of signal in what it reports; that's an analog measurement that requires separate special electronics hardware. As far as I know, it only measures amount of error correcting that it has to do in order to get back the original digital signal. That's something that can be done in software (or is probably done on the chip).

For a signal that's strong enough to overwhelm a tuner, the TiVo totally loses the signal for that period. If it's extremely brief, the TiVo may be able to reconstruct it from the surrounding signal and be fine; a little bit longer and you'll have pixelation; a little longer than that and you'll have a 0 signal reported.

So that's very different from what happens in a too-weak situation, where the tuner is always functioning properly and the values reported will be accurate even if they're not good enough to reconstruct the original signal. In a too-weak situation, the error correcting rate is probably a good approximation of signal strength.

It sounds like most of the problems reported in this thread are a signal occasionally too strong for the TiVo on certain frequencies.

Again, this is based just on what I've read - I don't have the technical background in this area to know this is what's happening. If somebody has that knowledge, please feel free to correct me!


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## tivophilia (Aug 6, 2006)

Hope someone can explain how TWC Houston measures one signal coming out of the coax and series3 diagnostics reports that same signal strength as two different values (slot 1, slot 2). 

Childish analogy in an attempt to understand why so many posters report the pixelation on slot 2 only: Does slots 1 take all the signal it needs, then passes on what's left of the signal to the poor relation which is slot 2?


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## JFR0317 (Nov 24, 2002)

js281 said:


> So I am at a loss here, I wanted to post a message to see if anyone had the same problems and if so how was it resolved?
> 
> The problem that I am having is my Series 3 HD Tivo is having sporadic pixelation problems and many times it is to the point where some of the channels are unwatchable. The problem occurs on several of the digital channels (both HD & standard) but seems to be more prevalent on the HD channels. I have had 2 Time Warner Cable reps come out to check it out, and they both say that I have a strong signal (last one even checked to the box in the neighbors yard), they recommend replacing the cable cards. I would not have a problem doing this but the fact that this problem occurs on both cable cards has me worried (and I find that a little odd).
> 
> ...


I just read your post to my wife, and she asked me when I had made that post. 

Seriously, I am having the exact same problem and got the same response when I had a TWC technician out to check things out, except he didn't suggest to change out the cablecards. I also (albeit much less frequently) have had the same problem with my Sony XBR LCD w/cablecard, so I'm even more inclined to think it's a problem with TWC Houston's signal and how it interfaces with cablecards. I also have the TWC SA8300HD DVR in another room, and it exhibits no problems when I am having the issues with the Series 3 TiVo. The interesting thing when looking at the Series 3's diagnostics is how it will fluctuate from an indicated strong signal level (such as 85 or 90) to 0 and then quickly back to a strong signal. I have also tried unhooking the OTA antenna feed with no improvements and have also tried both (1) boosting the signal level with an in-line amplifier and alternatively, (2) attenuating the signal by inserting a four-way splitter (-7 db drop) into the signal path, both with no luck.

Also, my problem occurs with both tuners when tuned to TWC channels, so my problems don't seem to be limited to just one cablecard.


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## cepheid (Feb 16, 2002)

JFR0317 said:


> ...I have also tried unhooking the OTA antenna feed with no improvements and have also tried both (1) boosting the signal level with an in-line amplifier and alternatively, (2) attenuating the signal by inserting a four-way splitter (-7 db drop) into the signal path, both with no luck.
> 
> Also, my problem occurs with both tuners when tuned to TWC channels, so my problems don't seem to be limited to just one cablecard.


Ditto (again)... having the SAME problems here on both cablecards. I'm in west Houston near Kirkwood/Briarforest. I can only add a bit more data, but no solution:

The pixelation seemed to be much less problematic during late December, but over the past 2-3 weeks, it's gotten VERY bad... the affected channels pixelate badly enough to be unwatchable about 30 minutes out of every hour - maybe 6-7 minutes of clear signal, then 6-7 minutes of pixelation.

I have tried attenuating from 6 db to 16 db with no improvement at all. At 19 db attenuation, I lose the digital signal lock altogether, so can't attenuate more than 16 db.

I also had the TWC-supplied DVR prior to getting the S3 with NO pixelation. And my S2 TiVo rocks right along. Good thing I have it to fall back to for watching what I can't get from TWC on the S3.


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## js281 (Sep 20, 2006)

So I swapped out both cards, and it does not seem to have fixed the problem  The very little amount that I have been able to watch TV since I have swapped the cards I still noticed some pixellation but have not really been able to sit down a write down the channel information (which I will hopefully be able to do this weekend). I did notice that watching American Idol there where some audio issues, but not sure if this was related or not (I don't think it was).

I definetly think this is a thread that I will continue to contribute to once I get more information (hopefully everyone else in Houston will do the same) and maybe some Tivo reps are watching this thread and may be able to provide some input as well.

I found it very funny that both Time Warner reps that came out to look at the issue had nothing but bad things to say about Cable Cards, was this because of ignorance or just because they have actually had that many fail??

Looking forward to updates as they come in


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## bluetex (Apr 24, 2005)

I sat and monitored channel 309 on both tuners yesterday before American Idol came on. 

Tuner 1 stayed steady between 92 and 94 and never lost signal lock
Tuner 2 fluctuated wildly between 80, 0, and 92 and lost lock over and over about every 5 seconds.

This has been happening for us for about 2 weeks. Or top 3 offenders are 311, 309 and 323.

The series2 systems (one a moto box the other without) are both fine, no problems at all. The Standard Def channels are also fine.

Only problems are with HD.

We're in Copperfield


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## psquared (Jan 26, 2007)

I am in Houston and I am having pixelation problems on HD stations as well, but at the present I am only receiving them OTA, so it makes me wonder whether the problem is with TWC or with Tivo or with signal strength problems in general.

I will investigate and report more detail, but I thought I might drop a note to suggest that it might be something other than a TWC problem.


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## JFR0317 (Nov 24, 2002)

psquared said:


> I am in Houston and I am having pixelation problems on HD stations as well, but at the present I am only receiving them OTA, so it makes me wonder whether the problem is with TWC or with Tivo or with signal strength problems in general.
> 
> I will investigate and report more detail, but I thought I might drop a note to suggest that it might be something other than a TWC problem.


When I am having the problem with TWC HD channels, I can switch to the OTA channels and have no problems. So at least in my case, it seems to be a TWC only issue.


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## tivophilia (Aug 6, 2006)

bluetex said:


> Tuner 1 stayed steady between 92 and 94 and never lost signal lock
> Tuner 2 fluctuated wildly between 80, 0, and 92 and lost lock over and over about every 5 seconds. Only problems are with HD.


Same here. I popped out slot 2 yesterday. No pixilation on slot 1 at all.


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## BillL (Oct 6, 2004)

So is it a hardware issue? Do all Tivo boxes have this problem? Or should we swap our boxes?

I have Cox in CT and have pixilation on my High Def channels only on tuner 2.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

My problems on two different S3 boxes have been identical on both tuners.


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## FlippedBit (Dec 25, 2001)

This is a know issue. TiVo is aware of it and have admitted that there are idiosyncracies with some MPEG compressions that the S3 can't handle. They alluded that it is something they might be able to fix. I am summarizing what somebody else posted in another thread a couple of months ago. We are all waiting to see if 8.1 fixes this problem. If 8.1 doesn't fix this then I am going to start calling TiVo. In the mean time, I have been sufferring. Search for pixilation and audio dropouts and you will find many other threads.

There was a thread where somebody solved their problem by terminating their Antenna input. I don't think this worked for everbody though. I've been meaning to pick up a terminator but haven't yet. Somebody else put a high pass filter in the cable line to cut out DC and claimed success. However, I think others who have tried this didn't have success. If it is an MPEG decompression issue, then it can only be fixed with a TiVo software or hardware change.


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

A friend of mine was having this trouble on TWC Houston as well. Apparent good signal strength on all channels, but some HD channels would get back pixel/breakups. 

TWC technician came out and replaced the house drop, which had some splices in it that he thought could be letting in interference, which they've seen as more of a problem than signal strength. Between that fix, and adding a terminator on the OTA input, has completely fixed the problem... 3 days and no breakups!

Jeff


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## FlippedBit (Dec 25, 2001)

I believe most of the pixilation cases are cases where the cable co boxes don't exhibit a problem. This points to the S3 as being the problem. I suspect that replacing a bad cable is not likely to be the solution for most of us since a very significant percentage of S3 owners are having this problem and most of us weren't having any similar problems before.

Here is the post I was recalling:



SCSIRAID said:


> Tivo called me this evening to get some additional information on my open case with this issue. I went thru the whole drill of what I had tried and the results. They wanted to insure that the problem was what they thought it was. Based on our discussion, the rep was confident that the issue I (and some of you) are seeing is fixed in 8.1. He went further to explain that its not really a dropout in signal but in fact an MPEG stream decoding issue. He said further that they had found quite a few idiosynchricies with mpeg provided by cablecos digital channels. One specific example was the strange FF actions seen by FIOS customers.
> 
> I dug a bit and was told that 8.1 is close to ready. Based on reading between the lines, I also think there are gonna be some disappointed folks with what is NOT in 8.1.
> 
> So overall... looks like good news. Rep was also a nice guy and we had a nice conversation. Thanks Tivo!


The link is:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4644865&highlight=mpeg#post4644865


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## bluetex (Apr 24, 2005)

Upon further review and tinkering.. the problem is both tuners and not specific to either card.

The signal just stinks. I'm going to try my hand with the techs tomorrow.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bluetex said:


> Upon further review and tinkering.. the problem is both tuners and not specific to either card.
> 
> The signal just stinks. I'm going to try my hand with the techs tomorrow.


I hope they can get this worked out for you. Keep us posted.


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## bluetex (Apr 24, 2005)

Update on my pixelation issue. 

I called the tech line, they scheduled a truck roll for Tuesday. Monday mid-morning -- all of the sudden the signal cleared up and everything was all strong again.

I went ahead and let them come out Tuesday, they still changed out the splitter in the attic -- but of course everything was already ok.

Since then.. no problems, no pixelation, no audio dropouts. All is 100% cleared up.

Funny how it clears up 24 hours ahead of the visit... then they call in the afternoon and remind you that the truck will be there the next day. 

All's well. Happy again.


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## JFR0317 (Nov 24, 2002)

Just checked how my TWC Houston reception is doing, and of course, I'm not currently having any problems either. However, my problems have come and gone periodically, so I can only hope things are cured. Not real optimistic.


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## cepheid (Feb 16, 2002)

I've noticed that for the past week (!), I've not had pixelation issues on any channels that have lasted more than a second or two. Whatever TWC-Houston has done seems to have cleared up the issue entirely, at least for now. For the first time since I've had my Series 3, I have not had to rely on "backup recordings" on my Series2.

<crossing fingers!>


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## tinkererguy (May 14, 2002)

FlippedBit said:


> I believe most of the pixilation cases are cases where the cable co boxes don't exhibit a problem. This points to the S3 as being the problem. I suspect that replacing a bad cable is not likely to be the solution for most of us since a very significant percentage of S3 owners are having this problem and most of us weren't having any similar problems before.
> 
> Here is the post I was recalling:
> 
> ...


Sigh, I realize I'm Cox, but your descriptions seem most spot-on from my scouring this site.

Both of my 2 S3s went to the 8.1 upgrade today, but Istill have pixelation on some non-HD channels, like HBO, sometimes after about 10-15 minutes of clear viewing. No problem on Cox HD tuner. Move cables around, problem stays with the TiVos, Cox box always just fine (Motorola 6200 series).

About the only thing I can find in common is that I recall (prior to 8.1) that the "Signal Strength Meter - Cable" would show 98 percent, then briefly drop every 10 seconds or so, for under a second each dropout. Now on 8.1, put it on HBO 205, after 3 minutes signal dropped from solid 97/98 range down to 89, and pixellation began, with
Digital signal acquired "no signal on tuner one"
showing every 10 seconds or so, and once every minute or so signal went to 0 on tuner was measuring. Switching to another channel then back again (killing off the buffer) doesn't seem to help at all.

Back on 8.0, I recall flipping to other tuner, but same problem would show over there, so my issue was never tied to just one tuner either.

When one unit was on 8.0 and the other on 8.1 (for a few hours), I tuned to the same HBO channel 205 on all 3 units, and dropouts were just a bit less bad on the 8.1 unit, perhaps, it was hard to tell, both were unwatchable, Cox box was fine throughout.

Will be calling TiVo tomorrow, and letting them know that unfortunately 8.1 hasn't helped me (previous calls to TiVo support gave me hope 8.1 might help, and Cox installed an amp and ensured adequate strength on all cables). On the bright side, doesn't seem to bite me on HD channels that I usually watch, nor on ABC over the air HD, but I still need to get this addressed.


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## tinkererguy (May 14, 2002)

TiVo recommended I get 4 new cablecards from Cox.

We narrowed the problem down to non-HD digital channels only, all other channels stay locked on 99% signal strength and have no pixelation issues. Higher bitrate premium digital channels have it worst, like HBOF on 205. Lower bitrate digital channels like G4 on 120 show the problem less often and less severe (somewhat watchable, whereas HBO unwatchable/intolerable).

Hoping it was a bad batch of older, early Motorola cablecards, if it helps to share, all my serial #s began with NG3625TA21xx, where xx is the last 2 digits that varied among the 4 cards. The UA#s were all 000029907848xxxx, where the last 4 digits varied.

Will know Friday afternoon, when the installer arrives with 4 new cards, pixelation will be evident right away if it's still there, hoping this is the root cause, as it's about all that's left to replace.


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## TivoTodd (Aug 16, 2002)

Cox customer here.
I am having the same problem, but not for any digital channels, only analog channels. The SciFi channel is probably worst for me, but I record and watch from that analog channel the most. All of my digital channels appear to be fine, or at least if / when they have problems, it isn't for very long.
I have tried many many things in an attempt to figure out what's wrong.

Cable guy was here today. He found some loose connections in my house, and tightening those improved reception on my other S1s and S2s, but it didn't help the S3 at all.
Cable guy indicates Signal Quality at all locations inside and outside the house is great, well within what he would expect to find; nothing to indicate a problem (other than some bleed through which led him to check the tightness of the cables in the observation above).
Cable guy, at my request, hooked up one of his amplifiers. While he did notice an increase in signal strength at the different outlets, and at the cable line going into my S3, it wasn't much, nor did it help the S3. He left with the amplifier in hand, as I didn't see it was helping, and didn't want to pay $50 for no benefit.
Cable guy offered to change out both cable cards, but neither he nor I saw the benefit in that, not likely that both cards would fail the same way, at the same time, for the same channels. I am curious to see if Tinker's four new cards help or not.

Other observations for my situation:
-Both tuner's show the problem.
-Using diagnotics screen, the symptom I see is a tuner tuned to an analog channel will have varying signal strenths ranging from 70s to 90s, and occaisionally, no number is displayed, just a dash. When the dash is displayed, the "Signal Lock" turns from Yes to No. During this behavior, the other tuner will have varying Signal Strength, but the Signal Lock will always be Yes... unless it is on a digital channel, and then the Signal Strength is almost always constant.
-If both tuners are on an analog channel, and one is experiencing the issue, when I change it to a digital channel, that tuner suddenly starts behaving appropriately, and the other tuner starts misbehaving like the first one.
-The 8.1 upgrade didn't do anything to help.
-The ONLY way I have been able to watch these troublesome channels is to get both Tuners on the same channel. And the ONLY way I can figure out how to do that is to use the "Test Channel" selection from the Cable Card menus. However, when I *do* get the tuners on the same channel, one of them is always having the problem, evidenced via watching the tuner, or by monitoring the Diagnostics for that tuner.
-One more thing I did that really confused me. I ejected both of my cable cards, and tuned to the analog channel range. No problem.. none at all. That's not the confusing part... The diagnostic screen shows a Signal Strength of 0 (zero), but still has a Signal Lock of Yes.

I guess somehow, the Cable Cards and the S3 are able to get a "digital" signal for an "analog" channel... Insert the cards back in to the S3, and the problem comes right back. The signal strength meter in the Channel Settings does show "Digital Signal Acquired".. on the analog channels.. 

To quote Vinnie Barbarino... I'm so confused...


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Here's my pixelation issue... Verizon Fios, Laurel, MD... I get bad breakups sometimes on a small set of channels, corresponding to 795 MHz. (At other times, they clear up.) But here's the thing: It only happens on _one_ of two S3's. The one with the breakups is much further away from the splitter, hooked up by a 13+-year old cable formerly used with Comcast, and then DirecTV. Verizon techs say the signal at the hookup point* is good, although I don't know if Tivo has the same idea of "good". Signal levels are 99-100 on all other channels, as well as these channels on the good S3; on the bad S3, the signal levels on these channels jump around all over the place.

In this situation, is it still plausible that the signal level is too high? Or what?

* I'm calling it a "hookup point" rather than an "outlet" because there's no outlet -- just a cable running along baseboards.


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## js281 (Sep 20, 2006)

Well a day prior to getting the update to 8.1, I had problems on the Food network on TWC/Comcast in Houston so problem was not isolated to just HD stations. Pixelation was awful, but have not had a chance to see a problem w/ 8.1 (but then again have only had the update for a couple of days and with a new baby in the house haven't had a chance to watch television )

Will update on my situation when I get a chance to watch more television, but problem does not seem to be isolated to HD Digital stations but appears also on other digital stations (SD).


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## TivoTodd (Aug 16, 2002)

Here's something I just figured out today...
Initially, I had indicated that my pixelation problems only occurred on my analog channels. Well.. you know how TiVo won't give you the option of choosing a recording quality if it is a digital channel... I now see a large number of my analog (or so I thought) channels act as if they are digital for recording.. no record quality selections. And that makes sense, now, because the "signal strength" in the diagnostics section shows a number other than zero.

On channels where the signal strength is zero, record quality selections are available.. indicating a true analog channel (at least for now).

And for some odd reason, the pixelation issues on my (formerly analog, now apparently digital) SciFi channel have been non-existant today... so.. perhaps I can only watch SciFi on the weekends?


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Just an update on my issue with FiOS - even though it was the same on my replacement box, all channels cleared up a few days later without my doing anything. They have been perfect for the past month.


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## travellover (Mar 20, 2007)

tinkererguy said:


> TiVo recommended I get 4 new cablecards from Cox.
> 
> We narrowed the problem down to non-HD digital channels only, all other channels stay locked on 99% signal strength and have no pixelation issues. Higher bitrate premium digital channels have it worst, like HBOF on 205. Lower bitrate digital channels like G4 on 120 show the problem less often and less severe (somewhat watchable, whereas HBO unwatchable/intolerable).
> 
> ...


 i live in rocky hill and am getting tothe point where i am ready to throw the tivo out the window. cable company has been here at least 10 times in a month and still have no answers.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Here is the latest on my dropout/pixelation issue......

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4976950&&#post4976950


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## glassonion (Nov 26, 2006)

Well my pixelation issue has certainly changed - good and bad. As I mentioned above I use to get frequent intermittent tiling on pretty much every channel, although some seemed more frequent and severe than others. Now my overall pixelation has significantly improved (after no change in S3 or CC!). Tiling is typically pretty short (couple seconds) and very infrequent (every few hours or more as opposed to every hour). I don't know if the broadcast signal changed but it seemed to correlate with around the same time Cox added some local HD channels...This all changed just as my attenuators arrived in the mail so I didn't really get a chance to try them out on the problem.

Here's the kicker though, I now have near constant tiling on specific channels on frequencies 531 and 537000 KHz. Happens on both S3 units exactly the same. The head-tech at Cox and I both suspect the CC are failing, so were trying out new ones later this week. I'll keep the forum updated. Oh yeah, I did try the attenuators (3, 6, and 9dB) which did nothing but perhaps worsen the already constant tiling channels..

I actually started a different thread a couple days ago about the CC failure thing
my other CC thread


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## George Webster (Apr 2, 2003)

This is my best attempt to explain what the people on this thread have in common. At the end, I will explain what I think causes the problem. 

Jjs281 wrote: Time Warner Cable reps say there is a strong signal. When the pixilation starts, the signal strength fluctuates between 97 and 0.

My comment  A momentary signal strength reading, taken by the cable company, is just a very brief snap shot of time and therefore means nothing. If the pixilation is not occurring during the few seconds that they take their reading, then the reading does not prove that the signal is free of problems. Tivos signal strength meter says there is a problem with the signal strength.

V7Goose wrote: Verizon checked the signal strength and all looked good. Two different S3 boxes and 4 cable cards (I'm with Verizon FiOS in north Texas): Both boxes have the identical problem, and all bad channels have fluctuating signal strength. When I pull one of the cable cards out and put it in my TV, all channels come in perfectly with a rock solid signal. This seems to prove it is NOT a problem with either the cable card or the signal coming out of my wall. Since two different S3 boxes have the identical problem, I'm wondering if there is flaw with the S3 tuners in these frequencies.
V7Goose wrote: Just an update on my issue with FiOS - even though it was the same on my replacement box, all channels cleared up a few days later without my doing anything. They have been perfect for the past month.

My comment  another brief signal reading from a cable company which may not have been during the pixilation problem. In his first post it SEEMS to be an S3 box problem  but did the writer leave the card in the TV long enough for the problem to show itself? Also, the writer only did his test with one out of four cable cards. Not thorough enough to prove anything. Then the problem fixed itself and since the S3 did not fix itself it leaves only the cable company to suspect. That is two people with cable, so far. 

Bluetex wrote: I've got a TWC connected S3 in Houston on 2 cable cards. Tuner 1 stayed steady between 92 and 94 and never lost signal lock. Tuner 2 fluctuated wildly between 80, 0, and 92 and lost lock over and over about every 5 seconds. The series2 systems (one a moto box the other without) are both fine, no problems at all.

My comment  this sounds like this case might be the S3, however, it could also be a cable card problem. Three people with cable  3 out of 3

Jeffsinsfo wrote: Since I have my Series 2 still hooked up to the same line and it still records some of the same shows as my Series 3. Had a dropout on my Series 3. The same problem existed on the Series 2.

My comment  S2 and S3 on same signal feed  both had problem. Its the cable company. People with cable = 4 out of four, so far.

Jeffsinsfo also wrote: I've also seen the problem occur in a friend's house whose cable runs directly into his TV.

My comment  people with cable TV = five out of five. Obviously this one is not a problem with S3.

Msantti wrote: I have TWC Houston also.

My comment - Cable TV = 6 out of 6

Tivophilia wrote: I'm a prisoner or Time Warner Houston too! Same pixilation problem! This is my third series3 box, and through them I've run 14 cable cards. TWC checked it today and said that signal strength is "fine."

My comment  only fine during the few seconds they checked the signal strength  I will bet there was no pixilation during those few seconds. What are the odds that the same person has 3 defective series 3 boxes and 14 bad cable cards? Its the cable TV company folks. 7 out of 7 with cable TV.

Magaggie wrote: One of my buddies on a different board said that his folks had a similar problem with TWC Houston

My comment  8 out of 8 with cable TV

JamesENicholson wrote: I think it is the stinking TWC Houston signal.

My comment  9 out of 9 with cable TV and problems.

Jklst14 wrote: I have Comcast

My comment  10 out of 10 with problems and cable TV

JFR0317 wrote: When I am having the problem with TWC HD channels, I can switch to the OTA channels and have no problems. So at least in my case, it seems to be a TWC only issue. Have had the same problem with my Sony XBR LCD w/cable card, so I'm even more inclined to think it's a problem with TWC Houston's signal and how it interfaces with cable cards.

My comment  Not a problem with S3. 11 out of 11 with problems and cable TV.

Cepheid wrote: having the SAME problems here on both cable cards. I also had the TWC-supplied DVR prior to getting the S3 with NO pixilation. And my S2 TiVo rocks right along. Good thing I have it to fall back to for watching what I can't get from TWC on the S3

My comment - The writer does not make it clear whether his evaluation of the TWC DVR and the S3 ran at the same instance in time, therefore it is somewhat meaningless. Perhaps this a cable card issue or pixilation problems with the cable signal at different points in time. 11 out of 11 with cable TV and problems.

BillL wrote: I have Cox in CT and have pixilation on my High Def channels only on tuner 2.

My comment - 12 out of 12 with problems and cable TV 

Jautor wrote: A friend of mine was having this trouble on TWC Houston as well. 

My comment: 13 out of 13 with problems and cable TV

Cepheid wrote: Whatever TWC-Houston has done seems to have cleared up the issue entirely.

My comment: NOT the S3 - 14 out of 14 with problems and cable TV

Tinkererguy wrote: No problem on Cox HD tuner. Move cables around, problem stays with the TiVos, Cox box always just fine (Motorola 6200 series).

My comment  this comparison does not rule out a problem with the cable cards. 15 out of 15 with problems and cable TV

TivoTodd wrote: Cox customer here - varying signal strengths ranging from 70s to 90s, and occasionally, no number is displayed, just a dash. When the dash is displayed, the "Signal Lock" turns from Yes to No. I ejected both of my cable cards, no problem.. none at all.
My comment  proof that the cable cards are problematic, at least in one case. 16 out of 16 with problems and cable TV

Wmcbrine wrote: Here's my pixilation issue... Verizon Fios, Laurel, MD

My comment  17 out of 17 with problems and cable TV

Travellover wrote: Cable Company has been here at least 10 times in a month and still have no answers.

My comment - 18 out of 18 with problems and cable TV 

Glassonion wrote: Now my overall pixilation has significantly improved (after no change in S3 or CC!).

My comment  did the S3 fix itself or did the cable cards fix themselves? Doubtful. 19 out of 19 with problems and cable TV

Psquared wrote: I am having pixilation problems on HD stations as well, but at the present I am only receiving them OTA.

My comment  this is the only person having an OTA problem and it could very simply be trees swaying in the breeze. I have same problem. 

FlippedBit wrote: This is a know issue. TiVo is aware of it and have admitted that there are idiosyncrasies with some MPEG compressions that the S3 can't handle. They alluded that it is something they might be able to fix. If it is an MPEG decompression issue, then it can only be fixed with a TiVo software or hardware change.

My comment  the writer does not support his claim with a link to an article so there is no way to check the accuracy of the information.

My final thoughts  19 out of 20 posters have had problems on cable TV.

A friend of mine recently signed up for cable television with Cablevision, which is supposed to have the fastest internet service available. I have their 15 megabit per second service and for $10 per month extra they offer 30 megabit per second service. My friend was getting so much pixilation (does not own a series 3 or any DVR) that he returned the cable box, cancelled the service and went back to satellite. I think what is happening is that each time Cablevision signs up more internet users, there are times when bandwidth availability gets too overburdened and television picture pixilation occurs at those times.

I seriously doubt this is a series 3 issue. Remember, at standard definition a picture has 211,000 pixels. Full 1080 is 1920 x 1080 for a whopping 2,073,600 pixels. Just a tiny bit short of 10 times the bandwidth requirements. I think as new customers are added for internet, cable TV pixilation will only get worse over time. Unless they find new ways to put more data through the same fiber optic cables or install additional cables. Too many people signing up for fast internet and hogging the bandwidth, in my opinion. 

I have DirecTivo and never have problems with pixilation unless we have extremely heavy rain (once or twice per year)


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

George Webster said:


> My final thoughts  19 out of 20 posters have had problems on cable TV. I seriously doubt this is a series 3 issue.


OR there could be a problem in the way the S3 decodes digital cable MPEG streams. Posting so many instances of people with cable having problems actually reinforces it is a problem with the TiVo and not the cable.

Although you seem to be saying that cable technology in general is an inferior technology to satellite which will take this whole thread down a rat-hole that I'd rather not go.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

George Webster said:


> ...I think as new customers are added for internet, cable TV pixilation will only get worse over time. Unless they find new ways to put more data through the same fiber optic cables or install additional cables. Too many people signing up for fast internet and hogging the bandwidth, in my opinion.


Spoken like someone who has no idea how the cable infrastructure is engineered. The bandwidth for TV and internet are totally separate and more users do not reduce TV bandwidth. The spectrum for TV is fixed, in the short term, and unaffected by internet usage.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

George Webster said:


> This is my best attempt to explain what the people on this thread have in common. At the end, I will explain what I think causes the problem.
> 
> [Analysis of individual posters issues snipped as not directly relevant to my post.]
> 
> ...


I agree that the dreaded pixelized video and audio dropout problem is probably neither a TiVo nor a CableCARD issue. I think that its almost certainly a signal strength issue but not one that is limited to cable transmissions. Cox OKC provides me with a strong cable signal and I occasionally see pixelization or dropouts but never have them with enough severity or frequency to seriously hamper my viewing.

In stark contrast, I have to receive the local ABC affiliates HD programming OTA. The owner of KOCO, the local affiliate, insists on extortionate payment from Cox for the privilege of retransmitting its HD programming and Cox has declined. KOCO has transmission problems, the reasons for which are not worth getting into here, but the bottom line is that I have had a lot of pixelization and dropout issues with ABC HD programming, particularly in the 9:45-10:00 pm time frame.

I live less than 5 miles from the KOCO antenna so simple rabbit ears are fine for my purpose. Even with rabbit ears, I was getting a reading on my S3s signal strength meter of from 75 to nearly 90 but still had severe problems with KOCOs signal. Then I moved my rabbit ears to a place 4 feet higher in my viewing room and KOCOs signal strength jumped up to 95-100. Since them, although I have had occasional pixelization and dropouts, they have been infrequent enough to make the problem bearable, if not entirely solved, despite KOCOs notoriously dicey OTA signal. This has convinced me that signal strength is, indeed, the culprit, not the S3.


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## George Webster (Apr 2, 2003)

ah30k said:


> OR there could be a problem in the way the S3 decodes digital cable MPEG streams. Posting so many instances of people with cable having problems actually reinforces it is a problem with the TiVo and not the cable.


I do not agree at all. The forum has over 130,000 registered users and yet only 20 people on this thread have written about pixalation problems. I truly believe that if it was a series 3 problem there would be hundreds or perhaps thousands of posts about it. I believe it is an isolated problem with various cable TV companies.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

The overriding factor *in my case * is when I take the exact same cable feed and attach it to two different Tivo's, a TWC SA8300, a TV with QAM Tuner, same TV but with a cablecard installed.... The only one (actually two) of these items that pixelate on QAM sources at a rate of once every 4-7 minutes.... guess which two... the Tivo's!!! No amount of attenuation or gain adjustments, DC blockers, High Pass Filters, etc etc changes that situation. Thats a strong clue.

My personal opinion is that this issue is a combination of factors... 1) A poor QAM tuner/demodulator in the Tivo and 2) Noise or Reflections in the TWC signal upsetting a poor tuner/demodulator. TWC could likely clean this up and remedy the situation (as evidensed by others that dont have the problem) but the Tivo should be able to cope with it (as evidenced by other devices that can). In my *opinion*... the 'fault' is with Tivo.

Did I mention that OTA HD (8VSB) is nearly perfect..... and that I love my Tivo (even if it does pixelate).


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

George Webster said:


> I do not agree at all. The forum has over 130,000 registered users and yet only 20 people on this thread have written about pixalation problems. I truly believe that if it was a series 3 problem there would be hundreds or perhaps thousands of posts about it. I believe it is an isolated problem with various cable TV companies.


There are all kinds of minor nuances to how MPEG streams are encoded and some headends may be doing something that is within spec but the TiVo might not decode it properly. Remember the FiOS ff skipping problem? This was finally solved when a user sent in the hard disk from his/her system and the TiVo staff diagnosed the MPEG stream. I'm not saying who is right or wrong, but if all of the STBs in the plant are OK with the streams, then the TiVo has to play along (even if the TiVo is within spec).


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## TiVolunteer (Jul 10, 2001)

George Webster said:


> and yet only 20 people on this thread have written about pixalation problems.


Make it 21.

Don't take this thread as the only indication. Try this thread, or this thread. SCSIRaid and I have compared notes and our situations are pretty close. However, in my situation, I have 3 Series 3's. And all three have the pixelation problem and I've pretty much done the same debugging as SCSIRaid.

I have performed multiple tests where all three recorded the same show from the same channel. I have captured instances where all three had pixelation within the same show *but in different locations within the show.* This tells me that, at least for me, the pixelation is not in the source because two of the S3's always had good data even though it was never the same two.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

My next test will be to take my S3 to a friends house and see if the problem recreates there. He is far enough away from me that Im reasonabally confident he is on a different cable 'node'. I will verify that fact with my TWC contact. I dont know if Tivolunteer and I are on the same node. That would be an interesting 'clue' too.

Tivo has my 'replacement' Tivo with all the recordings with pixelation but have provided no feedback yet.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

wmcbrine said:



> Here's my pixelation issue... Verizon Fios, Laurel, MD... I get bad breakups sometimes on a small set of channels, corresponding to 795 MHz. (At other times, they clear up.) But here's the thing: It only happens on _one_ of two S3's. The one with the breakups is much further away from the splitter, hooked up by a 13+-year old cable formerly used with Comcast, and then DirecTV. Verizon techs say the signal at the hookup point* is good, although I don't know if Tivo has the same idea of "good". Signal levels are 99-100 on all other channels, as well as these channels on the good S3; on the bad S3, the signal levels on these channels jump around all over the place.
> 
> In this situation, is it still plausible that the signal level is too high? Or what?
> 
> * I'm calling it a "hookup point" rather than an "outlet" because there's no outlet -- just a cable running along baseboards.


Yes. I had to put a splitter just in front of one of my S3's to reduce the db level. Try getting a cheap splitter from Radio Shack (-4b or -7db) and just stick it in front of the S3.


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## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

I am also using TWC Houston and have noticed the same pixallation/audio drop issues. However, something even a bit more strange. I watched a recorded show (from 312 HD) a week ago and it played back just fine. Today I tried to watch the same show and it gives lots of pixelation and audio drops. So something makes me think that its not the cable coming in, but rather the tivo box, maybe the mpeg decoding problem. I guess I am going to try to swap HDMI cables and/or test the component video out, but I dont think that will help. I'll post results if I find any.

-Mark


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Add me to the list (I actually started another thread a couple days ago; didn't realize this thread was similar to my problem).

I am *ALSO *TW-Houston (now ComCast). I was mostly trouble-free until about 2 weeks ago. Now I get severe pixelation on a couple of HD channels (mainly 290 HDNet). The SA8300HD *never* has a problem. Other than the problem that its UI is POS. 

On a few occasions it has happened while I was watching live. When this happens, I force it to change tuners, and watch 290HDNet on the other tuner. It usually is not pixellating on the other tuner.


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## Akezer (Jul 9, 2004)

Add me to the list also...here's my situation. I have Directv w/Tivo and a Hughes HDVR2. Over the last six months I've had tiling/pixelization/dropouts on the SciFI network. It's gotten so bad that the family can't even watch the show whether it's recorded or live. I call Directv thinking it was the signal which they said "no". So I started to do some investigating myself. It happens only on the Sat 2 feed into the unit (I've had this unit for several years). If I switch cables, it still only happens on the feed into the Sat 2 connection. It most noticable on Scifi although several only channels also exhibit severe tiling....but most are crystal clear on this Sat 2 feed. I thought it was the unit and am about to purchase a replacement, but now I'm reading this board and you are all talking about digital vs. analog vs. HD signal and freq...which is all slightly over my understanding. How do you rectify this? Thanks.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Akezer said:


> Add me to the list also...


No, your problem is unrelated.



> _I thought it was the unit and am about to purchase a replacement, but now I'm reading this board and you are all talking about digital vs. analog vs. HD signal and freq...which is all slightly over my understanding._


And irrelvant to an HDVR2. You were right the first time. Your second tuner is going bad. It happens.

You're lucky it's the second tuner (assuming you're right about that), since it means you can redo guided setup to turn it into a single-tuner unit, which should be reliable (for now). If it were the first tuner, you'd be out of luck.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

This sounds very similar to what I'm seeing over on Comcast, but for me it's only on a couple of channels and one tuner. Weird.


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## Akezer (Jul 9, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> No, your problem is unrelated. And irrelvant to an HDVR2. You were right the first time. Your second tuner is going bad. It happens.
> 
> You're lucky it's the second tuner (assuming you're right about that), since it means you can redo guided setup to turn it into a single-tuner unit, which should be reliable (for now). If it were the first tuner, you'd be out of luck.


Know what? You're right. Since I posted my first message, I read many more messages including the one thread about disconnecting the S-video and going with the composite input. This seems to eliminate the pixelation...no one seems to fully understand why...but I tried it and it worked! Once in awhile you'll get a very brief period of tiling but the original problem has cleared up 99.9%.

Thanks to all who offer all the tips on this site. I appreciate it.


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