# Will record OTA channel but can't watch channel live



## A M (Jul 4, 2017)

Recently added Roamio OTA to support my cord-cutting adventure. I get all the major channels plus a bunch more when I use an antenna connected directly to the TV. When I installed the Roamio I did a channel scan and picked up all the same channels. Though it automatically added the ABC HD and the extra channels when I try to watch them I get the blue screen with a message about the signal or something like that. Oddly, if I select an ABC program to record from the Guide, it records fine and I can watch it.

Without knowing more about the tuners and software, it seems the DVR will record with lower digital signal than the live TV is set to require. How do I get around this? I may want to watch live TV some day.

I did search the archives and didn't find an answer. Anyone else notice this?

Thank you


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Are you sure that the channel is the same one? The guide channel might be different than the one you are trying to tune? Tune to the channel in question with the no signal screen then hit the record button. Does the recording have a picture?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

A M said:


> Recently added Roamio OTA to support my cord-cutting adventure. I get all the major channels plus a bunch more when I use an antenna connected directly to the TV. When I installed the Roamio I did a channel scan and picked up all the same channels. Though it automatically added the ABC HD and the extra channels when I try to watch them I get the blue screen with a message about the signal or something like that. Oddly, if I select an ABC program to record from the Guide, it records fine and I can watch it.
> Without knowing more about the tuners and software, it seems the DVR will record with lower digital signal than the live TV is set to require. How do I get around this? I may want to watch live TV some day.
> I did search the archives and didn't find an answer. Anyone else notice this?
> Thank you


May I ask the call letters of the ABC channel? One difference between a TV and a TiVo is that a TiVo does not have PSIP ability.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

With the current Bad Rovi stupid approach to managing channel lineups, you will find that you have literally hundreds of bogus channels in the channel list. This is especially bad in rural areas where the DMA (Designated Market Area) covers large physical areas that include many stations that are impossible to be received due to great distances. LOTS of work needed to make sure only the correct ones are checked. Be aware that the TiVo channel scan function does almost nothing now - it certainly does *NOT* find and select only the channels you can actually receive like a TV channel scan does.

Best approach is to use the TV tuner and the diagnostics screen that should be available in the TV setup to write down the specific channel call letters AND BOTH the display channel numbers and actual broadcast channel/frequency, then use this infor to edit the TiVo channel list. If your TV does not give you that information, it can also be found by searching the FCC license database.

Knowing the actual broadcast channel number (as opposed to the display channel number) is absolutely necessary to find the correct channel to check in the channel list when there are many bogus channels included in the lineup. But unfortunately, TiVo does not make it easy to even see this broadcast channel number. Older models, such as the Series 3 boxes, showed the broadcast channel frequency in the channel list, but newer boxes like the Bolt do not - to see the broadcast channel number you must use the Antenna Signal Strength screen. I do not have a Roamio, but I suspect that issue is the same as with the Bolt.


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## A M (Jul 4, 2017)

WJLA, Washington, DC

It's the weirdest thing. If I connect the antenna to the TV I can watch the channel. 

If I connect antenna to the TiVO I cannot watch the channel live but can record the broadcast and watch later. It is as if the signal strength is within the recording parameters but outside the viewing parameters. It is a software bug that they should be able to fix easily.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

A M said:


> WJLA, Washington, DC
> It's the weirdest thing. If I connect the antenna to the TV I can watch the channel.
> If I connect antenna to the TiVO I cannot watch the channel live but can record the broadcast and watch later. It is as if the signal strength is within the recording parameters but outside the viewing parameters. It is a software bug that they should be able to fix easily.


I agree, it is very strange. For those interested, its physical and virtual channel are 7. WJLA-TV - Wikipedia


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Wait!

So, that means you can tune that channel, get a 'Blue Screen' (TiVo does blue screen?), begin recording of that 'Blue Screen', then go to your recordings and begin playback of that recording and get a picture?

Wow...

-KP


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

kpeters59 said:


> Wait!
> 
> So, that means you can tune that channel, get a 'Blue Screen' (TiVo does blue screen?), begin recording of that 'Blue Screen', then go to your recordings and begin playback of that recording and get a picture?
> 
> ...


That's what I asked and got no answer. I'm skeptical. I think he is recording a different feed and the same with the TV live versus TiVo live, but I could be wrong.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

What ZIP Code was used during Guided Setup of the DVR?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

V7Goose said:


> Knowing the actual broadcast channel number (as opposed to the display channel number) is absolutely necessary to find the correct channel to check in the channel list when there are many bogus channels included in the lineup. But unfortunately, TiVo does not make it easy to even see this broadcast channel number. Older models, such as the Series 3 boxes, showed the broadcast channel frequency in the channel list, but newer boxes like the Bolt do not - to see the broadcast channel number you must use the Antenna Signal Strength screen. I do not have a Roamio, but I suspect that issue is the same as with the Bolt.


My 2-tuner Premiere and my 4-tuner Roamio (both on 20.7.1.RC2) show the RF broadcast channel as "digital frequency" in the detailed information for whichever channel is highlighted in the channel list. So you're saying that the Bolt firmware no longer shows that? That would be a very strange thing for TiVo to remove.


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## A M (Jul 4, 2017)

I tried to record a show by going to the channel and selecting record but get an error on the channel. However, if I pick the show from the Guide it records just fine. That is how I watched 20/20 and Nightline.

To make this more clear, if I try to watch any of the channel 7 stations I get a blue screen with a notice that there is a problem with the signal or something. But it records shows on channel 7-1 just fine. I have it set to record Nightline and 20/20 with season passes or whatever that is called.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

A M said:


> I tried to record a show by going to the channel and selecting record but get an error on the channel. However, if I pick the show from the Guide it records just fine. That is how I watched 20/20 and Nightline.
> 
> To make this more clear, if I try to watch any of the channel 7 stations I get a blue screen with a notice that there is a problem with the signal or something. But it records shows on channel 7-1 just fine. I have it set to record Nightline and 20/20 with season passes or whatever that is called.


When you say "I tried to record a show by going to the channel and selecting record but get an error on the channel." and then say "if I try to watch any of the channel 7 stations I get a blue screen with a notice that there is a problem with the signal or something" I have ask what exactly are you doing? If you use the channel up/down button and set through you channels do any of them come in?

Have you gone into the Channel List in the Settings and removed any channels you do not receive? There maybe multiple channels showing the same channel numbers and you have to remove the ones you do not receive. I don't know why but for some reason TiVo may list out of area channels using the same channel number as a local channel and if you do not remove them from the list (remove the check mark) it can mess up accessing the actual working channel.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> *What ZIP Code* was used during Guided Setup of the DVR?


^^^ Please answer this ^^^

Along with your ZIP Code, you may also want to post the link to a TV Fool report for your location. For example (using ZIP 20001):

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=e6a4333b98862c​This helps inform as to what stations you *should* be receiving.



A M said:


> To make this more clear, if I try to watch any of the channel 7 stations I get a blue screen with a notice that there is a problem with the signal or something. But it records shows on channel 7-1 just fine.





atmuscarella said:


> Have you gone into the Channel List in the Settings and removed any channels you do not receive?


See this post for info on editing your Channel Lists.

'gist: Use the Grid Guide view for the Channel Guide, and enable display of "ALL" channels (logos disabled)... and then try tuning each channel, one at a time, documenting those that pull-in a signal (pic & audio).

Recommended Guide Options settings for reviewing tunable channels:








​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

A M said:


> To make this more clear, if I try to watch any of the channel 7 stations I get a blue screen with a notice that there is a problem with the signal or something. But it records shows on channel 7-1 just fine.


If you're trying to tune a station labeled as just "7" on your Roamio OTA, yeah, that's not likely a signal that the modern (digital TV only) Roamio OTA can pick up. This is why you want to review all the channels listed in your TiVo's channel guide information and filter-OUT those that you can't receive.

The 7-1, 7-2, etc channels likely represent the digital sub-channels that you *can* watch and record.

edit: p.s. This theory seems empty since repeated Guided Setup on my spare BOLT with ZIP 20001 resulted in only the 7-* sub-channels in my guide listing. Tuning each of the 7-* sub-channels and checking diagnostics indicates they should be tuning to real channel 7 (freq 177000 KHz).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Does the "Channel Bits" value matter? 7-1 is 3151898, the others (-2,-3,-4) are 2103322.

Also, our local ABC affiliate (ZIP 62305) also broadcasts on real channel 7, and I'm able to both view live TV and record from the 7-1, 7-2 and 7-3 sub-channels (no associated sub-channel for 7-4) using the TiVo guide data for ZIP 20001. 'gist: Guide data is seemingly OK, so is it your station's signal or your antenna or OTA?


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## A M (Jul 4, 2017)

here is the TV Fool Link:

TV Fool

When I try to watch 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4 a blue floating banner: Problem with signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)

But

My Season Pass of Nightlight and 20/20 record fine. Both broadcast on channel 7.1. It could be that signal gets stronger later at night which I have not tested but this is

I do see some chatter about this error in other threads:

v53 tuning problem. OTA, no cable card, no tuning adapter

I will review the channel set up again, too.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

20001 has vast differences between tvguide.com and tv.com. I will light a candle for you.

I just ran guided setup for 20001 OTA on my Premiere. I see no problems. Guide on tv.com matches what's in the channel list.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

This would seem to be a worthwhile test...


UCLABB said:


> Tune to the channel in question with the no signal screen then hit the record button. Does the recording have a picture?


... though after setting the program to record, jump to "My Shows" and initiate playback of the recording from there.

You can also check current signal levels across your tuners by accessing the TiVo box diagnostics screen, via:

TiVo Central
> Settings & Messages
> Account & System Info
> TiVo box Diagnostics​
*Check "Signal Strength" *for each of the tuners. (Note that it would be beneficial to set each tuner to a different "real" channel, rather than the same virtual channel or sub-channels all broadcast on the same physical channel. And, of course, one of the tuners should be set to 7-1.)

I'd also be curious what you find if you set all 4 tuners to record at the same time.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

L David Matheny said:


> My 2-tuner Premiere and my 4-tuner Roamio (both on 20.7.1.RC2) show the RF broadcast channel as "digital frequency" in the detailed information for whichever channel is highlighted in the channel list. So you're saying that the Bolt firmware no longer shows that? That would be a very strange thing for TiVo to remove.


My Bolts are also on 20.7.1.RC2, and yes, the Bolt Channel List does NOT show any channel or frequency information other than the Display channel number (also know as the Virtual channel number). To see the actual broadcast channel (what TiVo calls the "[Freq]" when you communicate with the Lineup team, even though it technically is just a channel number and NOT a true frequency) you have to use the Antenna Signal strength screen and select the particular channel there.

On the Bolt, you can see the actual "frequency" that a tuner is currently receiving in the Diagnostics screen, but the only place you can see the real broadcast channel number that corresponds to that frequency is in the Antenna Signal Strength screen when you select each channel.

I agree that it is very strange that they dropped this important information from the Channel List display, and it is VERY irritating when trying to find real available channels out of the hundreds of bogus channels they are now including in the rural lineups (here in New Mexico, all of our OTA lineups have over 200 channels from all over the entire state!!).


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

A M said:


> I tried to record a show by going to the channel and selecting record but get an error on the channel. However, if I pick the show from the Guide it records just fine. That is how I watched 20/20 and Nightline.
> 
> To make this more clear, if I try to watch any of the channel 7 stations I get a blue screen with a notice that there is a problem with the signal or something. But it records shows on channel 7-1 just fine. I have it set to record Nightline and 20/20 with season passes or whatever that is called.


I'd be willing to bet that your problem is not a bug at all, but just a problem with how you have your channel list set up. Go set up your test situation where you have the channel selected and showing a blue screen, but also have a good currently active recording on that channel, then just use your "Live TV" button to cycle through the four tuners - I'll bet one of the tuners is actually tuned to the correct channel, and one of them is tuned to a bogus channel of the same virtual number.


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## Desutho (Nov 8, 2017)

Did anyone resolve this? I'm having this issue now! 

I have an indoor Winegard antenna which brings in all of my local channels clearly. When I first set up my TiVo Roamio OTA 1Tb, it got all the same channels as I previously got on my TV. I have two separate sets of PBS stations that I get in at various times, and depending on weather sometimes I only get one or the other. When I set up the TiVo I was getting both. Because the weather has always seemed to affect which of the two PBS I get, I have recordings set up to record Poldark on both, and at every time shown (none of them are at the same time or overlap, their schedules to air this show are different). For me that would give me 4 chances to get a clear recording. 

Recently, I tried to watch a show on one PBS station and got the no signal message and V52, so I went to the other PBS to see if it was coming in and got the same. Thinking then that I would have no recordings, I checked and ALL 4 for EACH week were recorded, with perhaps one being pixelated is all! Okay, so maybe I'm just having reception issues today, I thought.  Nope, this has been two weeks. I cannot watch any PBS station live, but I can record any of them, one recorded beautifully at 2 a.m. just yesterday.

So, after checking to be sure I had no reception on either PBS digital subchannels, I decided to restart my TiVo this morning. After doing so, I tried to watch both again. I still get the no reception message only NOW I get a V53 code!

Can anyone help with this? It seems odd to me that it is strong enough reception to record but not to watch live.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Have you checked your channel list to make sure only the correct stations are checked? Most likely there was a recent change made to the list by Bad Rovi that caused your problem.


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## Desutho (Nov 8, 2017)

Yes, I even did a re-scan of all channels and only the ones I know i get are checked. There are times that I don't receive either set of PBS stations depending on time of year/weather, but still being able to record them when I'm not able to watch them, is baffling! Will see if I can still record them now that I've done all of this. I may have only succeeded in losing that too.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

A channel scan with a TiVo generally has close to zero value - the TiVo does NOT look for stations like your TV does; it relies totally on the station lineup provided to the box by the host. The only way to see what stations are REALLY available to you is to use the Antenna Signal Strength screen to SLOWLY scan down the entire list and see if it shows both a positive signal strength AND a video picture. I said 'slowly' because it takes several seconds for the TiVo to switch stations in this screen, and if you move down the list too fast, you will completely miss existing stations.

There are some situations where a station cannot be tuned in normally from Live TV, but you can still find those channels in the Signal Strength screen and get an idea about what is happening. Note too that this screen is now the only way with current TiVo boxes to actually see the broadcast frequency that the received station is using behind the display frequency/channel number.


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## Desutho (Nov 8, 2017)

I had looked up the error codes online and did the processes described. One was to re-scan, which like you said, did nothing. I also did what you describe, and neither group of PBS stations come in, although one group did say "digital signal acquired" and a peak of around 40 -- don't remember exactly, the picture never came in nor did the frequency bar ever turn yellow or green like the other channels. I have not had anything record recently so I don't know if I'm not getting the recordings either, which would lead me to believe the channels are not being received at all. Otherwise, I would wonder why I can receive/record them when I'm asleep (2 a.m. usually) but not during prime time. I had run across this thread while researching the error code and since I had the same issue, I thought I'd check to see if there was a solution.

I'm not a techie, I know just enough to set up my electronics but not trouble-shoot them unless I find step by step instructions online. I'm wondering if an LTE filter might be in order for my antenna even though it is only an indoor model.

Thanks for the help. As far as the PBS is concerned, I'll leave it as-is unless other channels start having the same issue.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

When you use the TiVo Signal Strength screen and find a station where it shows a good signal strength but no video, it usually means that is a bogus channel that is in the lineup using the same BROADCAST channel frequency as a real channel in your area, but is setup for a different display frequency. For example, if you have a real channel 10.1 broadcasting on frequency 35, you should see the strong signal and a picture for 10.1 only, but any other channel in your lineup that says it is using frequency 35 will show a good signal strength, but no video. Current Bad Rovi lineups now have a lot of these bogus channels, especially in rural areas where the DMA covers an area hundreds of miles wide and many communities.

When you connect your antenna directly to the TV and do a channel scan there, do your PBS channels come in? Using a TV channel scan is a much better way to verify what channels your TiVo SHOULD be able to receive. The TV tuners are "honest" about what channels actually exist!

If you provide your zip code and the PBS station call signs/display channel/broadcast channels that you are looking for, I'll try to find the time to look up your lineup and see if I can give you any additional information.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Desutho said:


> I also did what you describe, and neither group of PBS stations come in, although one group did say "digital signal acquired" and a peak of around 40


By the way, I forgot to mention that on a Bolt, a signal strength of 40 is just barely strong enough to generate any picture (38% is usually too low to get anything at all), even for a real local station, so that may be part of your issue - You cannot directly compare signal strength numbers from one model to another, but you probably need either a better antenna, a better antenna location, or a decent amplifier to get that signal stronger.


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## Desutho (Nov 8, 2017)

I would understand if the problem was my antenna and not able to get the program at all. But I AM getting the program as evidenced by the recordings! Just can't tune to that channel and watch anything as it airs. Which is fine, I can still time-shift the program and all, but I just figured I should be able to watch that channel if the TiVo is getting it in strong enough to record it.

I live in zip code 58104. I am recording KFME-DT or K49FA-D. Since this started, I've been unable to watch either of these as I go to watch random programs, but each week I have the TiVo set to record ALL Poldark episodes on both (just in case the one I chose was poor or no reception). It records 4 of the same episode each week and of the 4 recorded, at least 3 if not all 4 are clear and HD. I am just baffled why the stations will not come in on my TiVo to just watch, but if I program it to record the stations, it does so magnificently!

I have ordered an LTE filter to see if that may be my problem -- nearby cell phone usage and tower usage go down later at night when these shows are on.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Desutho said:


> I live in zip code 58104. I am recording KFME-DT or K49FA-D.
> I have ordered an LTE filter to see if that may be my problem -- nearby cell phone usage and tower usage go down later at night when these shows are on.


That is one interesting station -> Prairie Public Television - Wikipedia


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

V7Goose said:


> A channel scan with a TiVo generally has close to zero value - the TiVo does NOT look for stations like your TV does; it relies totally on the station lineup provided to the box by the host. The only way to see what stations are REALLY available to you is to use the Antenna Signal Strength screen to SLOWLY scan down the entire list and see if it shows both a positive signal strength AND a video picture. I said 'slowly' because it takes several seconds for the TiVo to switch stations in this screen, and if you move down the list too fast, you will completely miss existing stations.
> 
> There are some situations where a station cannot be tuned in normally from Live TV, but you can still find those channels in the Signal Strength screen and get an idea about what is happening. Note too that this screen is now the only way with current TiVo boxes to actually see the broadcast frequency that the received station is using behind the display frequency/channel number.


That is how the guide data info is received but that isn't how my Roamio OTA works in finding new channels. It DOES find local received channels with a full channel scan that are not yet in the data base. In Tampa we recently had added new three sub channels, one for WFLA and two for WEDU and they showed up literally right after going live when I did a channel scan. It had no guide info (To be announced) and no description of what the channel was (blank)but the Roamio found them just as my TV did and my DISH receiver did. It took about two weeks as I remember for the guide info to show up and longer for the channel name. (The WFLA sub channel still has no channel name it has call letters instead) 
Another indication is when a new channel is added to the data base TiVO tells me that and it is added automatically after an overnight update. The two new WEDU sub channels showed as new added channels about two weeks after I scanned them in.


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