# Roamio OTA 1TB



## Photo_guy (Mar 12, 2015)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/more-storage-price-tivo-launches-121100312.html

Didn't see this posted yet. Sorry if it is a re-post.

$399 with All-in

Too bad they did not go with a 3TB. Now it costs $100 more (than the best prior deal) and we need to remove a 1TB drive to add a 3TB drive.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

That is actually a big deal - pretty much tells us no Bolt OTA - instead they are dropping back to the Roamio OTA so they can offer better pricing. At $400 with lifetime and a 1TB drive it is as cheap as Tablo or CM.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks for the news. The Roamio lives on. 

This was probably smart. What are the odds they could realistically sell a Bolt on the cheap?

$400 all-In is pretty good. Upgraders will bite. I suspect its still a bit too pricey for the frugal greater OTA market.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

atmuscarella said:


> That is actually a big deal - pretty much tells us no Bolt OTA - instead they are dropping back to the Roamio OTA so they can offer better pricing. At $400 with lifetime and a 1TB drive it is as cheap as Tablo or CM.


I agree, first I think TIVO made the right choice at 1TB keeping cost in mind, 3TB would make the initial cost too much.
Second, it would indeed appear Bolt won't get OTA _unless_ they need to sell off Roamio's hanging around in stock first.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

No monthly fee will get me to sell my Bolt and switch. We're OTA only here.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm glad I picked up a lifetime refurb Roamio Basic for $300 last fall. I put in a 3TB drive and gave it to my GF for OTA use. Which costs me less than this Roamio 1TB OTA All In box at $400

I'm surprised they went backwards and released a product based on the Roamio, seven months after releasing the Bolt.

I still have another Roamio Basic i bought in 2013 that I use with OTA. I have a 1TB drive in that. But I pay only $6.95 a month for it. So unless they offer some crazy $99 All In price to me. I will just continue to pay the $6.95 a month for it indefinitely.


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## Photo_guy (Mar 12, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> I'm glad I picked up a lifetime refurb Roamio Basic for $300 last fall. I put in a 3TB drive and gave it to my GF for OTA use. Which costs me less than this Roamio 1TB OTA All In box at $400
> 
> I'm surprised they went backwards and released a product based on the Roamio, seven months after releasing the Bolt.


Does seem a bit strange but, as you know, changing out the drive is very easy so Tivo's product development costs were zero. Today's 1TB drive probably cost the same as the 500mb drive cost when the OTA first came out. So they have a 'new' product that they can market for almost no additional cost - and sell it for more than the closeout OTA prices. Seems pretty smart.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Or they still have a warehouse full of thousands of Roamios that they need to get rid of?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

They wouldn't have removed the ROTA from the website so long ago if they had boxes to get rid of.

This smells like a new CEO decision.


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## theking02 (Jun 5, 2015)

Also includes "Casting":



> Casting: Cast your favorite Netflix and YouTube video from your mobile device to the TiVo Roamio OTA 1TB. No need to buy a Chromecast dongle; casting is built-in.


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## JolDC (Dec 21, 2001)

theking02 said:


> Also includes "Casting":


I thought all existing TiVo's did this. I was doing this on my Premiere before and my bolts now.


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## theking02 (Jun 5, 2015)

JolDC said:


> I thought all existing TiVo's did this. I was doing this on my Premiere before and my bolts now.


I had no idea; will have to try that out tonight!


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I saw an OTA on eBay that had a cable card trey retrofit into it. I had seen a few conversations about this been never really noticed if anyone fully tested it it.

If that works, this could be an interesting deal.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Excellent move on the part of Tivo, I see people here at Fry's in their shopping cart: A Channel Master OTA DVR, External Hard Drive, Antenna, Cables.

Threre is no reason they should pick the CM over Tivo.

Now all Tivo needs to do is offer streaming services so they gain additional revenue.

Smart Depack Chopra, smart!


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## ilovedvrs (Oct 21, 2004)

I see no mention if this 4k or not....


I'm ota only & I hate my Bolt...

Still doesn't do 4k Amazon...


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

It's a previous-generation Roamio (Series 5). So no 4K.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

ilovedvrs said:


> I see no mention if this 4k or not....
> 
> I'm ota only & I hate my Bolt...
> 
> Still doesn't do 4k Amazon...


Why do you hate the Bolt?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ilovedvrs said:


> I see no mention if this 4k or not....
> 
> I'm ota only & I hate my Bolt...
> 
> Still doesn't do 4k Amazon...


Roamio DVRs are not 4K compatible.

As far as I can tell the Bolt is likely the best OTA DVR ever made by anyone, if you hate it I really don't know what OTA DVR you can buy that is better, some are cheaper but not better. Unless of course you really don't want a DVR - if that is the case just buy a top streaming device (Roku/Apple TV/Amazon Fire TV/etc.) and be done with it.


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## ilovedvrs (Oct 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Why do you hate the Bolt?


Ulgy design, loud, no lifetime subscription (yet), they lied about 4k support, commercial skips IMO is useless (you have to wait for show to end / not automatic/doesn't work on all shows)

most shows I watch I start 20 minutes into them.. to have to make a decisions to use quick skip or fast forward every tv show I watch isn't helpful. I rather have no decision and just use fast forward. Better yet it should skip without user intervention..

I hope they have new 4k(that works) unit that isn't ulgy, so I can trash the bolt


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

ilovedvrs said:


> Ulgy design, loud, no lifetime subscription (yet), they lied about 4k support, commercial skips IMO is useless (you have to wait for show to end / not automatic/doesn't work on all shows)
> 
> most shows I watch I start 20 minutes into them.. to have to make a decisions to use quick skip or fast forward every tv show I watch isn't helpful. I rather have no decision and just use fast forward. Better yet it should skip without user intervention..
> 
> I hope they have new 4k(that works) unit that isn't ulgy, so I can trash the bolt


I love the design.. You can get a lifetime subscription and commercial skip operates the same as the roamio... Sounds like you didnt research before buying and now are looking for reasons to slam it. and not sure where they lied about 4K support. they said since the start that Amazon was not available yet


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

JolDC said:


> I thought all existing TiVo's did this. I was doing this on my Premiere before and my bolts now.


How are you doing the cast? My Tivo Bolt does not show up in either my Samsung S4 or Nexus 6. The S4 can cast directly to our Samsung Smart TV.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aspexil said:


> How are you doing the cast? My Tivo Bolt does not show up in either my Samsung S4 or Nexus 6. The S4 can cast directly to our Samsung Smart TV.


TiVo's use DIAL for casting. They don't use Google Cast. Apps like Netflix and Youtube support DIAL. But just any Google Cast app will not work. It doesn't actually cast like Google Cast. It just opens the app on the TiVo and controls it.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Kinda BS. I bought a Roamio OTA in 2014, paid a pretty good bit for it and then did the mandatory 12 month deal. It is activated now at $14.99, WTF is the difference between this and mine. Oh wait, I can go spend another $399 and then not have to pay $14.99 a month. Money grab and pretty sleazy.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ilovedvrs said:


> Ulgy design, loud, no lifetime subscription (yet), they lied about 4k support, commercial skips IMO is useless (you have to wait for show to end / not automatic/doesn't work on all shows)
> 
> most shows I watch I start 20 minutes into them.. to have to make a decisions to use quick skip or fast forward every tv show I watch isn't helpful. I rather have no decision and just use fast forward. Better yet it should skip without user intervention..
> 
> I hope they have new 4k(that works) unit that isn't ulgy, so I can trash the bolt



The Bolt has had a Lifetime All In subscription since last year. I think since it launched in October.

And I'll agree that the Bolt design is ugly. But it's no louder to me than any other TiVo. I can hear the fan from any DVR from at least 15 feet away in a quiet room. I wouldn't want to use any DVR in a bedroom because of the fan noise(and hard drive noise).

Although for years I did have a TiVo in the bedroom starting in 2001. I had become accustomed to the noise. But since the Mini came out and I got used to having a quiet bedroom, I wouldn't want to go back to hearing the noise every DVR makes.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

elwaylite said:


> Kinda BS. I bought a Roamio OTA in 2014, paid a pretty good bit for it and then did the mandatory 12 month deal. It is activated now at $14.99, WTF is the difference between this and mine. Oh wait, I can go spend another $399 and then not have to pay $14.99 a month. Money grab and pretty sleazy.


What do you mean you "paid a pretty good bit for it"? The Roamio OTA initially launched with $50 price tag. And prices come down over time on electronics. Early adopters pay more, late adopters pay less. It's been this way for decades. There's nothing "sleazy" about it. I swear some people around here seem to actually want TiVo to go out of business. I paid *$800* for my Roamio *Plus *w/lifetime a few years ago, and a few months ago I could have bought a Roamio *Pro* w/lifetime for *$600*. Do I feel cheated? Hell no. I am extremely grateful that TiVo exists and sold me a great product that allowed me to ditch TWC's awful boxes. Long live TiVo!


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> What do you mean you "paid a pretty good bit for it"? The Roamio OTA initially launched with $50 price tag. And prices come down over time on electronics. Early adopters pay more, late adopters pay less. It's been this way for decades. There's nothing "sleazy" about it. I swear some people around here seem to actually want TiVo to go out of business. I paid *$800* for my Roamio *Plus *w/lifetime a few years ago, and a few months ago I could have bought a Roamio *Pro* w/lifetime for *$600*. Do I feel cheated? Hell no. I am extremely grateful that TiVo exists and sold me a great product that allowed me to ditch TWC's awful boxes. Long live TiVo!


I swear some people around here are fanboys... How does that feel?

I paid $200 for my Roamio OTA in Oct 2014. I then paid $19.95/month for a year. I now pay $14.95 a month. They then come out with a "new" OTA Roamio that has no sub fees. And you are speaking to someone who has been a tivo sub in one way or another since 2009, including a Roamio, Series 3 and Premiere.

it's a money grab, Dish and Directv do it all day long. Give great new deals to new buyers, and sit on the $$$ rolling in from your reliable ones.

Here is a scenario, I paid $200 for mine, then a couple of years sub fees, how about dropping my $14.95 down to $5 or 6 a month? It is an OTA box, how much are they keeping off that $15/month? Im sure plenty.

I dont expect free, but with this new revelation $15/month is HIGH. And I am supposed to feel sorry about a company that spent a lot of their time putting money in the bank suing others?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

elwaylite said:


> I paid $200 for my Roamio OTA in Oct 2014.


If you paid $200 then it wasn't a Roamio OTA, it was a standard Roamio. The Roamio OTA price was $50, substantially below what the hardware actually cost TiVo to make.



elwaylite said:


> I dont expect free, but with this new revelation $15/month is HIGH.


When your current subscription term is up, you can probably call TiVo and get them to lower it to $9.99/month.



elwaylite said:


> And I am supposed to feel sorry about a company that spent a lot of their time putting money in the bank suing others?


I'm not sure how this is at all relevant.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

aaronwt said:


> Or they still have a warehouse full of thousands of Roamios that they need to get rid of?


Or the raw parts for thousands of them. And thousands of 1TB drives from the discontinuation of the Plus.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

ilovedvrs said:


> Ulgy design, loud, no lifetime subscription (yet), they lied about 4k support, commercial skips IMO is useless (you have to wait for show to end / not automatic/doesn't work on all shows)
> 
> most shows I watch I start 20 minutes into them.. to have to make a decisions to use quick skip or fast forward every tv show I watch isn't helpful. I rather have no decision and just use fast forward. Better yet it should skip without user intervention..
> 
> I hope they have new 4k(that works) unit that isn't ulgy, so I can trash the bolt


Just a thought...maybe you'd be happier selling your Bolt and buying a 4K-capable Roku or Fire TV? And then subscribing to commercial-free Hulu for $12 per month. Use the PBS app for free commercial-free HD streaming from that network. That only leaves CBS, which you can access for free (without ads) as a Plex channel or for $6 per month (with ads) through the CBS All Access app.

Given that your screen name is "ilovedvrs," this probably isn't something you'd want to do. But after your first year of TiVo service is up, you'll be paying $150/yr (avg. of $12.50/mo) for TiVo service that you're only using with OTA channels. Just a thought.


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

Weren't folks successful in adding cable card slots to the OTA version to essentially make it a basic? Makes this more attractive if that works out.


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## gor88 (Jan 3, 2008)

Does anyone know how the ram and processor speed compare between the roamio ota and the bolt? I was just curious, since I just got a Bolt.

Supposedly, the Bolt is 3x faster than the previous version, which I assume is a Roamio. Another difference would be Gigabit Ethernet support, not to mention the streaming 4K support.

So far, I think I am keeping the Bolt and will do the yearly renewal. Now, if the introductory price for the Roamio OTA was $299 with All In, the Bolt would get packed up right now and shipped back to Amazon. $399 to downgrade to the previous generation hardware doesn't sound like a plan for me.

The HD size doesn't matter to me, since I'm replacing with a Seagate 4TB using the Ross Walker method, once I fully vet the Bolt I am keeping (the one I got had "non-stick" factory seals, since been told other TiVo owners have experienced the same - replacement is on the way).


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

foghorn2 said:


> Excellent move on the part of Tivo, I see people here at Fry's in their shopping cart: A Channel Master OTA DVR, External Hard Drive, Antenna, Cables.
> 
> Threre is no reason they should pick the CM over Tivo.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing Naveen played a bigger role in this than Deepak did.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Need oem bracket salvaged from a basic roamio to sucessfully make it work, everything else is Mickey Mouse.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

Let them test the waters.
I'll wait until they're $300 again.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I wonder if they'll be able to add mobile streaming to this device like they did with the Bolt using the Broadcom chipset rather then needing the special chip in the Stream? IIRC the chipset used in the Roamio OTA/Basic has transcoding capabilities.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

tampa8 said:


> I agree, first I think TIVO made the right choice at 1TB keeping cost in mind, 3TB would make the initial cost too much.
> Second, it would indeed appear Bolt won't get OTA _unless_ they need to sell off Roamio's hanging around in stock first.


If it came with the 3TB, then it would be worth the $400.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I wonder if they'll be able to add mobile streaming to this device like they did with the Bolt using the Broadcom chipset rather then needing the special chip in the Stream? IIRC the chipset used in the Roamio OTA/Basic has transcoding capabilities.


Good idea, but do you think the Roam Basic or OTA will be able to handle the heat dissipation during transcoding?

The air path is from the left over and under the HDD, through the PuuuunY fan and then up and under the MB including the thin cpu heatsink with no fan of its own.

On the bolt there's a bigger fan "passing gas" under its hump (its arse ) which pushes hot air  out.

I have a newer stream that does not have a heating nor fan noise problem, but history shows it gets pretty hot and is taxing the fan quite a bit when transcoding.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Definitely a niche market, but I think they will do well with them. 1TB is more than enough for the casual type of viewer who doesn't subscribe to pay TV, and is basically working with 5 or 6 channels to record from versus 100+ on cable.

TiVo is a fantastic DVR to use with OTA for casual TV viewing.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I paid $299 for both my OTA's with Lifetime, immediately put a $100 3TB drive in one, left the original in the other.

I think I paid $399 for my Basic with Lifetime and a 2 TB drive.

I think I'm much better off than this current deal.

Pretty sure it was still called Lifetime when I got them, may have changed to "All-In" by the time I got the second OTA.

Stock OTA is used by my daughter who doesn't record near as much crap as I do, I think the fullest she's gotten it was 50%.
Easy enough to drop a 1TB-3TB drive in there if needed, still cheaper than this new deal.


phox


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

I think this is a good move by Tivo. The OTA+streaming viewer has many venues to watch shows, so they are less dependent on the OTA DVR and wouldn't see as much value to a Tivo subscription. By removing the subscription cost, they can capture the viewer who wants a quality OTA DVR but doesn't use OTA enough to justify the subscription. I think without this option, Tivo would lose this type of person as a customer to other OTA DVRs which had little or no subscription cost.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

One step forward and two steps backward if you ask me.The good is it addresses the OTA cord cutter folks with and all in no monthly option. The Bad is its still too expensive for most in that crowd and its now old technology.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I wonder if they'll be able to add mobile streaming to this device like they did with the Bolt using the Broadcom chipset rather then needing the special chip in the Stream? IIRC the chipset used in the Roamio OTA/Basic has transcoding capabilities.


The press release says it works with the Tivo Stream device. IE streaming is not built it. Its the same old Roamio OTA.


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## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

This puts the kibosh on all those folks trying to sell their older 500GB Roamio OTAs with Lifetime on ebay for $500+


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

I wish this had been announced before I got the $50 one from Best Buy and into the 1 year of monthly service.


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## AZbuckeye (Apr 28, 2016)

I purchased the $50.00 OTA from Best Buy, but I recently canceled my service after completing my year commitment. They offered a reduced monthly rate of $12.99, but I want to eliminate the monthly payment. I would consider the new 1TB unit for $400.00, but I would rather keep the current unit and get a discounted lifetime subscription.....I wonder if they will eventually make that offer?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

AZbuckeye said:


> I would consider the new 1TB unit for $400.00, but I would rather keep the current unit and get a discounted lifetime subscription


Why? If it's cheaper to buy a new one with lifetime why not just do that? You can keep the old one for parts.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

elwaylite said:


> Kinda BS. I bought a Roamio OTA in 2014, paid a pretty good bit for it and then did the mandatory 12 month deal. It is activated now at $14.99, WTF is the difference between this and mine. Oh wait, I can go spend another $399 and then not have to pay $14.99 a month. Money grab and pretty sleazy.


as technology ages it always gets cheaper. nothing sleazy about that.


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

Not a bad deal at all


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I am contemplating it but my OTA is not great. This does not have MOCA built in, right? So I'd have to add it to it or connect it via ethernet, correct?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> I am contemplating it but my OTA is not great. This does not have MOCA built in, right? So I'd have to add it to it or connect it via ethernet, correct?


Correct, unless TiVo added that capability to this new version of the Roamo OTA, which I highly doubt.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If you're only using the OTA, and not any Minis, then you can use wifi.


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## Photo_guy (Mar 12, 2015)

purwater said:


> I wish this had been announced before I got the $50 one from Best Buy and into the 1 year of monthly service.


Sounds like you are in a similar situation as I was this time last year. I had purchased a $50 OTA because it seemed like an inexpensive, low risk way to see if Tivo would work for us. After a few months the $300 lifetime units became available. Since I liked the Tivo I went ahead and bought one and intended to cancel the monthly plan unit after the 1 year ended. At the end of the year I ended up keeping it active after they offered to lower the monthly fee to $10. Even with the expense of both Tivo's I am still saving money over what I was paying with Dish before.
I know it seems like you made a mistake but you probably made the best decision you could at the time. Now it is time to evaluate your needs going forward.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> If you're only using the OTA, and not any Minis, then you can use wifi.


Yeah. I never use wifi for non portable devices. Too much wifi traffic in my building.


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## tony2tru (Mar 4, 2004)

I'm glad they brought this back. I got the $299 Amazon Roamio OTA and friends have since seen my cord cutting setup and wanted to get on the TiVo bandwagon as well and I just had to tell them you can buy it for $500 on eBay or Amazon. This deal will bring in more users to the TiVo community!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

davefred99 said:


> One step forward and two steps backward if you ask me.The good is it addresses the OTA cord cutter folks with and all in no monthly option. The Bad is its still too expensive for most in that crowd and its now old technology.


It makes sense to be all-in, as OTA users don't want to pay more monthly fees.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Yeah. I never use wifi for non portable devices. Too much wifi traffic in my building.


Then you'll need to use Ethernet or a bridging technology like Moca or HomePlug.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Then you'll need to use Ethernet or a bridging technology like Moca or HomePlug.


Yup. Thanks.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

I think this is a great move by TiVo. Yes, it's on the slightly expensive side for what most OTA only folks would want to pay but IMHO it's the best OTA DVR on the market and worth well worth the $399 price. It's competitive with the current alternatives especially for being a premium product. Hopefully it will eventually get discounted on Amazon making it even more competitive. 1TB is adequate for the majority of users (I managed pretty well with 1TB of storage for my Roamio on OTA (500GB internal and 500GB external) for nearly 3 years until I upgraded the drive. I hope TiVo sells a ton of them!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

For all but the few most extreme users, 1TB is a TON of storage on OTA. That's 1TB with maybe 6 channels. I have 2TB and 70 channels and it's fine. It was fine when I had 120 channels.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TivoJD said:


> This puts the kibosh on all those folks trying to sell their older 500GB Roamio OTAs with Lifetime on ebay for $500+


True. Although I'll be happy if I can sell my 500GB Roamio OTA with lifetime for close to the amount I put into it (~$330 with tax). I dunno, given that it'll be used, with no warranty, and a smaller hard drive (although I've never gotten it more than 85% full and it's usually around 55-65% full), I don't know if it'll fetch over $300 (and of course eBay gets their cut). Still, even if my net cost is $100 for using the TiVo for two years, that's pretty darn good. Would come out to about $4/month.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

This seems like a good deal for ROTA/1TB . I missed the $299 ROTA/500GB offer but may pull the trigger on this one. Either 500GB or 1TB would be fine for us.

We currently have an 8 year old stock HD 160GB unit that we've always used OTA-only and it has lifetime. It's been a real trooper and given us no problems. But it's basically 10 year old hardware -- I take it the ROTA is much snappier and uses less power. Aside from better streaming support, what are some other advantages moving up to ROTA from an old HD?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

olsen623 said:


> This seems like a good deal for ROTA/1TB . I missed the $299 ROTA/500GB offer but may pull the trigger on this one. Either 500GB or 1TB would be fine for us.
> 
> We currently have an 8 year old stock HD 160GB unit that we've always used OTA-only and it has lifetime. It's been a real trooper and given us no problems. But it's basically 10 year old hardware -- I take it the ROTA is much snappier and uses less power. Aside from better streaming support, what are some other advantages moving up to ROTA from an old HD?


I think you pretty much listed them.
Newer HD UI - includes SkipMode & QuickMode
More apps
More storage
More tuners (4 versus 2)
I also like the remote better. I like RF (no line of sight needed). 
The Roamio OTA is a very good OTA DVR with acceptable streaming abilities.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

Looks like Lifetime HD/160GB units are going for about ~$150 on flea-bay. If I sell the HD and get the new ROTA/1TB deal that would bring it down to ~$250. Not a bad deal.


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

Photo_guy said:


> Sounds like you are in a similar situation as I was this time last year. I had purchased a $50 OTA because it seemed like an inexpensive, low risk way to see if Tivo would work for us. After a few months the $300 lifetime units became available. Since I liked the Tivo I went ahead and bought one and intended to cancel the monthly plan unit after the 1 year ended. At the end of the year I ended up keeping it active after they offered to lower the monthly fee to $10. Even with the expense of both Tivo's I am still saving money over what I was paying with Dish before.
> I know it seems like you made a mistake but you probably made the best decision you could at the time. Now it is time to evaluate your needs going forward.


Yeah this is the start of a trial run for the wife and I. Currently have Directv and plan on cancelling it in the next 10 days. Since we only get 3 decent OTA channels I've been letting it record the stuff we watch on those for the past 6 weeks or so. I figure if we have an internet outage we'll have a good amount of shows recorded to watch that evening. I'm hoping the transition to OTA and streaming goes well, and saves us some cash monthly. Worst case is that we come back to Directv on one of their "come back" offers or try Dish for a couple of years on the new customer offers.


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## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

I've been exclusively OTA + OTT since July 2010. It would appear that the incredible response to the firesale on OTA units coupled with the crazy markups that those units were fetching on ebay, *FINALLY* got the message across to tivo: the customer base who wants an OTA tivo does not want a monthly subscription. They were completely marketing it wrong. It's good to see tivo re-introducing a product they thought was dead in response to customer demand. 

This is a weirdly satisfying piece of news that makes me happier than it should.


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## JTHOJNICKI (Nov 30, 2015)

Does anyone know which Roamio model will serve as the basis for the new OTA? Roamio? Plus? or Pro?

Anyone seen a picture of it yet?

I'm really tempted as I have the Bolt, but have yet to purchase the All-In. I use the Bolt only for OTA and even with a 3TB drive upgrade, I find myself running low on drive space too fast. I also have a 3TB Roamio Pro with a cablecard. I'm thinking about getting the new Roamio OTA All In and slapping in a 5TB drive. Cheaper than buying All-In with my Bolt. TBH the only reason I bought the Bolt at the time was for Skipmode and the fact that I got it on sale for $211. Now that the Roamio line has Skipmode; I'd be good with a 5TB Roamio OTA with All-In.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

JTHOJNICKI said:


> Does anyone know which Roamio model will serve as the basis for the new OTA? Roamio? Plus? or Pro?
> 
> Anyone seen a picture of it yet?
> 
> I'm really tempted as I have the Bolt, but have yet to purchase the All-In. I use the Bolt only for OTA and even with a 3TB drive upgrade, I find myself running low on drive space too fast. I also have a 3TB Roamio Pro with a cablecard. I'm thinking about getting the new Roamio OTA All In and slapping in a 5TB drive. Cheaper than buying All-In with my Bolt. TBH the only reason I bought the Bolt at the time was for Skipmode and the fact that I got it on sale for $211. Now that the Roamio line has Skipmode; I'd be good with a 5TB Roamio OTA with All-In.


It is the same Roamio they sold before (based of the standard Roamio). The only difference is it has a 1TB hard drive and the included lifetime service.


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## timbuckone (Oct 27, 2012)

Now I hope tivo adds sling tv to the ota. Channel master dvr+ has it.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

What would it take to add Roku support to the Tivo? Many smart TV's come with Roku support and, in my simple opinion, it seems like it would add a lot of value to Tivo. Regardless of how good the support apps are in Tivo, if the user has to wait for Tivo to add support for it, then it's not very useful. The user will likely end up using a standalone streaming device instead to get access to whatever channels they want.


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## LoveGardenia (Apr 24, 2015)

rainwater said:


> It is the same Roamio they sold before (based of the standard Roamio). The only difference is it has a 1TB hard drive and the included lifetime service.


I was wondering if there was a newer model motherboard. But based on your reply this may not be the case.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

warrenn said:


> What would it take to add Roku support to the Tivo? Many smart TV's come with Roku support and, in my simple opinion, it seems like it would add a lot of value to Tivo. Regardless of how good the support apps are in Tivo, if the user has to wait for Tivo to add support for it, then it's not very useful. The user will likely end up using a standalone streaming device instead to get access to whatever channels they want.


You're 100% correct in thinking that TiVo needs to hitch its streaming wagon to a more popular platform. That's especially true if they come out with a non-DVR streaming box this fall, which is one interpretation of remarks TiVo honchos made on their most recent quarterly earnings call.

Would Roku be willing to license their platform to TiVo? I dunno. It's true that, aside from their thriving streaming box/stick business, Roku sees a big part of their future in licensing their platform to smart TV makers, which they've been doing for a couple years now. But those Roku-powered smart TVs have a UI that looks very much like what you get with a standalone Roku box. In TiVo's case, they would presumably be looking to keep their existing TiVo system UI and just be able to run apps (or "channels" as Roku calls them) coded for Roku, with access to the Roku channel store, I guess. TiVo users could browse through Roku apps/channels, install them on their TiVo, and the most popular ones would be supported by TiVo's OnePass system.

Would Roku license their platform to a competing set-top box maker to be used in a way that muddies or hides their brand that way? I sort of doubt it, but maybe if TiVo offered enough money to license the Roku platform in the way they'd want to use it. That said, I think Roku may be more amenable to partnering with TiVo by having TiVo DVR functionality reside within an app/channel made for Roku, with TiVo selling a hardware accessory that includes the tuners and hard drive. The accessory would connect to the Roku either via USB, wifi or ethernet. So essentially TiVo would be a direct competitor to the likes of Tablo in this case.

I think it makes more sense for TiVo to turn to Android as their streaming platform. Google licenses full-blown Android, with access to the Google Play app store, to lots of hardware partners and allows them to modify the UI to an extent. Or TiVo could simply take open-source Android (which doesn't require paying a license to Google but also doesn't come with access to Google Play) and then integrate it with their products as they see fit, which is essentially what Amazon did with their Fire TV products. If done right, all the existing apps coded for Android TV (and there are a ton of them) should work fine. TiVo would just need to either pre-install them or upload them to their servers and set up their own little app store.


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## JTHOJNICKI (Nov 30, 2015)

I just ditched Dish for Comcast & TiVo. Don't miss Dish at all and am saving a ton of money each month.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

JTHOJNICKI said:


> I just ditched Dish for Comcast & TiVo. Don't miss Dish at all and am saving a ton of money each month.


My Brother in Law finally switched from Comcast to DISH, loves it, likes the receiver(s) far better than what he had and is saving alot of money. He also has a couple channels he wanted that Comcast does not have. He really likes the external hard drive that can go to any receiver in the house.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Tivo knows an OTA Tivo will be bricked in a few years, because of the ATSC 3.0 conversion. Then they can sell a new OTA Tivo for $700.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> Tivo knows an OTA Tivo will be bricked in a few years, because of the ATSC 3.0 conversion. Then they can sell a new OTA Tivo for $700.


How will it be bricked? OTA 3.0 will not be required for any device or Broadcaster. And won't they still need to be broadcasting a legacy signal too?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> How will it be bricked? OTA 3.0 will not be required for any device or Broadcaster. And won't they still need to be broadcasting a legacy signal too?


It wouldn't be "bricked" unless ATSC 1.0 broadcasts completely ceased to exist and that won't happen for many, many years. The proposed plan is for the existing OTA bandwidth to be shared between ATSC 1.0 broadcasting from some towers in a given market and ATSC 3.0 broadcasting from others in that same market. For instance, instead of 10 different towers in a market now each broadcasting a single HD station and multiple SD subchannels in ATSC 1.0, you may have 6 towers broadcasting in ATSC 3.0 with a single UHD station plus a few subchannels on each, while the other 4 towers continue to broadcast in ATSC 1.0, with the channels that used to be spread across 10 towers now crammed onto those 4.

That said, if the above takes place, that means that there will likely be fewer ATSC 1.0 channels being broadcast (say good-bye to some of those SD subchannels) and we'll see the major network affiliates' ATSC 1.0 broadcasts switch to lower bitrates and therefore lower picture quality -- either very compressed "HD lite" or maybe even all SD.

So I don't see my Roamio OTA becoming completely obsolete until well after 2020, although it's possible that the quality and quantity of the OTA channels that it's able to receive will decrease to the point that I'm just not interested in using it.

Now, all the above is conjecture, but I think it's pretty much reflective of what's being stated by most folks in the know.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Right. Broadcasters won't voluntary turn off signals to potential eyeballs watching their commercials, and too many voters use OTA. There's enough bandwidth in smaller markets to handle all of it, and if people complain about picture quality on major channels they'll re-allocate resources to make it better. Turning off legacy signals will take an act of Congress, five years warning to consumers, and a government-subsidized conversion program.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

series5orpremier said:


> Right. Broadcasters won't voluntary turn off signals to potential eyeballs watching their commercials, and too many voters use OTA. There's enough bandwidth in smaller markets to handle all of it, and if people complain about picture quality on major channels they'll re-allocate resources to make it better. Turning off legacy signals will take an act of Congress, five years warning to consumers, and a government-subsidized conversion program.


They are auctioning off the frequencies that TV stations are currently using, and the auctions start at the end of the month. Some stations will go out of business and others will have to move to a different frequency. The FCC already has congressional authority and money to pay the local broadcaster's costs to move the stations.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Bones: "Captain! What does God need with a broadcast signal?"

Hope all these reLIEgous channels go away.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> How will it be bricked? OTA 3.0 will not be required for any device or Broadcaster. And won't they still need to be broadcasting a legacy signal too?


From what I've read, it's not likely that a station that has to change frequency would be required to continue to broadcast a legacy signal. The FCC has to get money from Congress to pay the local broadcaster to change frequency and I doubt they will get a second frequency for a legacy signal. I would think a second legacy signal would cost twice as much. I doubt the FCC would pay for new equipment to broadcast the legacy signal on the new frequency either since they would turn right around and pay for new equipment to broadcast the new ATSC 3.0 signal.

If there was a station that wasn't forced to move, then they could broadcast the legacy signal, but eventually they would switch to ATSC 3.0, because they are getting paid to do so by the FCC.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Until consumers fully convert, local broadcasters have more incentive to broadcast legacy signals than they do OTA 3.0. Just wait until the emergency Congressional hearings start and watch how fast the elimination of legacy signals goes then.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Will the Roamio OTA be an Amazon exclusive? At the top of TiVo's homepage it says "NEW! TiVo Roamio OTA 1 TB now available on Amazon. Learn More". I'm not sure why TiVo would be directing people to Amazon if they intended on selling it directly. Maybe the $300 Roamio OTA blowout sale on Amazon did so well that Amazon wanted more and so TiVo made more just for Amazon to sell.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

Amazon is showing them with a 2-4 week delivery? BestBuy has them on the website but no stock at local stores.

BestBuy is also now showing 500GB and 1TB Bolts for $199 and $299 respectively, and it looks like the first year service is no longer included.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

How long did TiVo/Amazon/BB run the Roamio OTA 500GB All-In offer last year?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I'm still seeing the one year included bolts in Amazon.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

As if I needed another reason to upgrade... electricity cost. In my case I've got an 8 year old Series 3/HD which uses about 40W, or about $56/year. Sounds like the Roamio units are about 14W, or $19/year -- a difference of $37/year. That's right... when it comes to efficiency and electricity wasted I'm cheap!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Right. Broadcasters won't voluntary turn off signals to potential eyeballs watching their commercials, and too many voters use OTA. There's enough bandwidth in smaller markets to handle all of it, and if people complain about picture quality on major channels they'll re-allocate resources to make it better. Turning off legacy signals will take an act of Congress, five years warning to consumers, and a government-subsidized conversion program.


This is why I doubt if ATSC 3.0 will ever go anywhere. ATSC 1.0 is fine for the OTA subs, and eventual 4k can be handled through RDBS spot beams on DirecTV or something, in addition to cable.


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## cncb (Jul 4, 2013)

It seems like ATSC 3.0 tuners could be added externally via USB or ethernet (like how the HDHomerun tuners work). If they could assure us that this will happen they might be able to sell more of these.

Edit: I guess the Roamio can't handle HEVC video but it sounds like there might be new Minis that will be able to.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

series5orpremier said:


> Right. Broadcasters won't voluntary turn off signals to potential eyeballs watching their commercials, and too many voters use OTA. There's enough bandwidth in smaller markets to handle all of it, and if people complain about picture quality on major channels they'll re-allocate resources to make it better. Turning off legacy signals will take an act of Congress, five years warning to consumers, and a government-subsidized conversion program.


I agree that ATSC 1.0 "lighthouse" signals will be left on for a number of years to give those viewers time to make their own transition over to ATSC 3.0 (or some other method of accessing TV). One of the reasons that will be necessary is that there will likely NOT be a government-subsidized converter box program this time. Which, as a taxpayer, is fine with me. If ATSC 1.0 viewers are unhappy with how their signals change for the worse due to a truncated share of local spectrum (meaning they lose HD and/or they lose some of the subchannels they now get), then they can pay the 50 bucks to buy a converter dongle that receives the superior ATSC 3.0 H.265-encoded signals and converts them to an H.263 or H.264 stream at whatever resolution their TV can handle (1080p/720p/480p). It will connect to the TV via HDMI. Or they could spend more and buy a new UHD 4K TV or internet gateway/DVR with ATSC 3.0 tuners included. For TVs so old they don't have an HDMI input, never mind -- you're stuck with ATSC 1.0 (or a cable/satellite box with an old-school video connection). Which, again, is fine. Technology moves on.

Enhanced picture (up to and including UHD HDR), sound, interactivity, more reliable reception, and the ability to watch live on any screen on your home network (whether it's a "TV" or not) are the carrots that ATSC 3.0 broadcasters are hoping will lure consumers to upgrade their equipment. Reduced picture quality and viewing options on ATSC 1.0 will be the sticks to nudge viewers away from that standard. From the broadcasters' perspective, I think interactivity is the key to why ATSC 3.0 is supposed to be profitable for them; if your ATSC 3.0 tuner is connected to your home's internet, they could have the option to dynamically insert demographically and/or geographically targeted ads at you during live TV commercial breaks -- kinda like Hulu does now. They can charge advertisers more for such ads because they're targeted at audiences who are more receptive. (That's the future of TV advertising, BTW. It's what all the OTT TV services will use and, I'd bet, what even cable TV systems will use once they switch from QAM to IP.) And interactivity will allow second screens to become part of the broadcast TV experience too, with show-related info, surveys, quizzes, games (and ads) served up on tablets, phones and laptops while you watch the show on your TV.

If the transition plays out well, ATSC 3.0 -- free UHD HDR TV that could be recorded to a local home server/DVR -- could be a great thing for TV viewers. But that's a big "if". There may be less consensus now than ever among the public on how our fixed amount of wireless spectrum should be used, split between cellular data and two types of TV broadcast. And OTA broadcasters are tasked with not one but two big transitions at the same time: the spectrum repack and the move to ATSC 3.0. Meanwhile, all the major players in the TV/tech/entertainment industries are trying to figure out what the future is going to look like and what their next chess move should be. Interesting times...


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Bigg said:


> This is why I doubt if ATSC 3.0 will ever go anywhere. ATSC 1.0 is fine for the OTA subs, and eventual 4k can be handled through RDBS spot beams on DirecTV or something, in addition to cable.


The FCC will start auctioning off frequencies on May 31. If the frequency of a current station is sold, that station has to shut down or change frequencies and the FCC will pay for the ATSC 3.0 equipment.

It doesn't matter that ATSC 1.0 works fine on the current frequencies. If the FCC doesn't provide more bandwidth for cellular data, then performance will degrade. ATSC 1.0 won't work very well on the new frequencies. If a station is moved to a new frequency, they have to go with ATSC 3.0.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Enhanced picture (up to and including UHD HDR), sound, interactivity, more reliable reception, and the ability to watch live on any screen on your home network (whether it's a "TV" or not) are the carrots that ATSC 3.0 broadcasters are hoping will lure consumers to upgrade their equipment.


I'm very, very skeptical that the stations are interested in any of this stuff for OTA. Why give away all the good stuff if they can charge for it over cable or satellite? Of course, we don't know if satellite will ever have more than HD resolution for LiLs, as DirecTV's HD LiL service was a MASSIVE undertaking, and I doubt that they'd have the bandwidth for 4k LiLs even with RDBS.



shwru980r said:


> The FCC will start auctioning off frequencies on May 31. If the frequency of a current station is sold, that station has to shut down or change frequencies and the FCC will pay for the ATSC 3.0 equipment.
> 
> It doesn't matter that ATSC 1.0 works fine on the current frequencies. If the FCC doesn't provide more bandwidth for cellular data, then performance will degrade. ATSC 1.0 won't work very well on the new frequencies. If a station is moved to a new frequency, they have to go with ATSC 3.0.


ATSC works on VHF. I really think the stations are pretty ambivalent about OTA. They'd be just fine with everyone paying for cable or satellite instead so that they can double dip.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

shwru980r said:


> If a station is moved to a new frequency, they have to go with ATSC 3.0.


Individual stations can pursue their own best interests and do whatever they want. There is no requirement to abandon ATSC 1.0 just like there's no requirement to immediately implement ATSC 3.0. If there were you'd see a ton of lawsuits and injunctions. Is this a communist dictatorship? I don't think so.

Right now the FCC is counting on local cooperation agreements amongst broadcasters because NOBODY is going to want to turn off ATSC 1.0 signals. When the free market doesn't accommodate a transition the FCC will have to reevaluate what they're going to do. My market is already set because it's already mostly VHF and major networks are already sharing broadcast frequencies due to common station ownership (NBC and CW; ABC and FOX). So I don't expect to see much change at all on the ATSC 1.0 front.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

The new 1TB Roamio OTA page is up:

https://www.tivo.com/shop/ota-detail


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The new 1TB Roamio OTA page is up:
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/ota-detail


Ordered mine from tivo.com at 8am. A few hours later TiVo shipped it. That's almost Amazon-Prime fast...


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## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

Is it just me, or are all of the Roamio OTA press pics showing it having the UI from the Bolt? That seems like the right move from a brand perspective, but strange in that the other Roamio products are still on the older UI. Wonder if that would also mean the OTA has the additional HDUI menus?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

steinbch said:


> Is it just me, or are all of the Roamio OTA press pics showing it having the UI from the Bolt? That seems like the right move from a brand perspective, but strange in that the other Roamio products are still on the older UI. Wonder if that would also mean the OTA has the additional HDUI menus?


Where are the press pics? On the Roamio OTA web page the only pics I noticed showed things that the Bolt and Roamio both have.


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## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Where are the press pics? On the Roamio OTA web page the only pics I noticed showed things that the Bolt and Roamio both have.


The main picture on the OTA page (https://www.tivo.com/shop/ota-detail) shows the program detail with the silver TiVo guy, which is only found in the Bolt's HDUI.

The quick mode picture on the same page shows the scrub bar with the new TiVo logo and not the old one.

The Amazon page for the OTA (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DR4T73Q) shows the HDUI search screen with the white selection bar hovering over Big Bang Theory (instead of the yellow one), with the Roamio OTA in the same picture.

These could easily be just bad cut/copy jobs from the Bolt marketing pages. Either way, it is confusing when you are selling two "new" products that are running different stock software.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Bigg said:


> ATSC works on VHF. I really think the stations are pretty ambivalent about OTA. They'd be just fine with everyone paying for cable or satellite instead so that they can double dip.


ATSC 1.0 works on the VHF hi band, but not as well as on UHF. From what I've read ATSC 1.0 won't work well on the VHF low band, which are the new frequencies being assigned.

If ATSC 1.0 was usable on VHF, the stations that were on the VHF low band before the first digital transition would have moved back to VHF after the analog stations were shut down. Only VHF hi band stations moved back to VHF and the reception was degraded significantly.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

series5orpremier said:


> Individual stations can pursue their own best interests and do whatever they want. There is no requirement to abandon ATSC 1.0 just like there's no requirement to immediately implement ATSC 3.0. If there were you'd see a ton of lawsuits and injunctions. Is this a communist dictatorship? I don't think so.
> 
> Right now the FCC is counting on local cooperation agreements amongst broadcasters because NOBODY is going to want to turn off ATSC 1.0 signals. When the free market doesn't accommodate a transition the FCC will have to reevaluate what they're going to do. My market is already set because it's already mostly VHF and major networks are already sharing broadcast frequencies due to common station ownership (NBC and CW; ABC and FOX). So I don't expect to see much change at all on the ATSC 1.0 front.


The FCC is offering to buy the current frequency a station is broadcasting on, give them a new frequency for free and pay for the ATSC 3.0 equipment. If a station rejects the offer, they don't get any money.

The FCC got money from congress to pay the stations to convert to ATSC 3.0. ATSC 1.0 won't work well on the new VHF low band frequencies being assigned. If a station had to change frequencies, they would have to pay out of their own pocket to broadcast ATSC 1.0 on the new frequency and then see a significant reduction in their broadcast range.

A station that doesn't have to change frequencies could stay on ATSC 1.0 longer, but they are still being offered money from the FCC to convert to ATSC 3.0.

Eventually the ATSC 1.0 components will fail and need to be replaced. Would you pay to repair old technology when the government will pay for new technology?


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

So why does it make sense to buy these "All In" devices? If ATSC 1.0 fate is what everyone says it is, why not hold onto a device where you are paying monthly?

Just a hypothetical question. I am trying to pay attention to this ATSC 3.0 stuff because I have both roamio's right now (All in and monthly). I want to get rid of one...which one I can't decide.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The price is right. At $400 the break even point is just over 2 years compared to $15/mo. It's unlikly the ATSC 3.0 teansition will happen before then anyway and even if it does in your area there will still be people in other areas that will be willing to by your TiVo for at least $100. So you'll be able to recoup some of it. 

My biggest concern about "all in" is TiVo's future, not ATSC's. Will TiVo survive the merger with Rovi? Will the quality of their service drop? Will the dump SkipMide? Etc... But again for $400 that's not a huge gamble.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Scooter Scott said:


> So why does it make sense to buy these "All In" devices? If ATSC 1.0 fate is what everyone says it is, why not hold onto a device where you are paying monthly?
> 
> Just a hypothetical question. I am trying to pay attention to this ATSC 3.0 stuff because I have both roamio's right now (All in and monthly). I want to get rid of one...which one I can't decide.


Most people don't know about the transition. I didn't know until I read about it on this forum. Others are claiming that ATSC 1.0 won't go away. My old Tivos work fine as DVRs.


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## JTHOJNICKI (Nov 30, 2015)

Ordered mine to replace my Bolt because, I can replace the Roamio OTA drive with a much bigger, cheaper drive (4-6TB) than the Bolt and the Bolt All-In is too expensive. Glad I got the first year of service free and that I only paid $211 for my 500GB Bolt. I bought the Roamio OTA from TiVo.com for the 30-day guarantee. I won't pull the drive until I'm sure that I'm keeping it.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> I'm very, very skeptical that the stations are interested in any of this stuff for OTA. Why give away all the good stuff if they can charge for it over cable or satellite?


Yeah. When you say "stations," I assume you're talking about the national networks ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and The CW. I'm not sure whether they like the idea of producing and distributing UHD content via their OTA affiliate stations or not. Of course, they were on board with distributing HD content via OTA when we moved from NTSC to ATSC 1.0; they didn't try to keep their HD feeds only for pay TV (cable/sat) back then, so I'm not sure why it would be different this time, although maybe it will be.

That said, the OTA affiliate stations definitely appear to be quite keen on ATSC 3.0 (including, one presumes UHD content), as evidenced by the public support from station owners including Sinclair, the Pearl TV consortium (nine owner groups that have banded together expressly to push for ATSC 3.0), as well as the Association of Public Television Stations. ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC Universal all own and operate a number of local affiliates too, so they all have a direct hand in the OTA game.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The new 1TB Roamio OTA page is up:
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/ota-detail


It's a well done page and builds a strong case for the Roamio OTA vs. its competitors. However, it looks like TiVo may have gotten a little creative with the math on the cost for the Tablo 4. They show hardware and service fees for it costing $700. The Tablo 4 box has an MSRP of $299.99 ($256 on Amazon), while lifetime guide data is another $150 (or $50 per year). Are they tacking on an extra $250 for a 1TB USB hard drive and a Roku?!


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

NashGuy said:


> It's a well done page and builds a strong case for the Roamio OTA vs. its competitors. However, it looks like TiVo may have gotten a little creative with the math on the cost for the Tablo 4. They show hardware and service fees for it costing $700. The Tablo 4 box has an MSRP of $299.99 ($256 on Amazon), while lifetime guide data is another $150 (or $50 per year). Are they tacking on an extra $250 for a 1TB USB hard drive and a Roku?!


Probably. They also have a few other things that are misleading in that chart. Like how they show only the Roamio as having streaming apps, when the Channel Master does have streaming apps, and the Tablo when used with a Roku (that they seem to be including in the Tablo's price) will have the Roku's streaming apps available.

Still, it is nice they didn't just slap the new OTA into the "outlet" section the way they did with the old OTA and the Roamio Pro. At least they seem to be making an attempt at going after cordcutters with this. IF there is anything that will save retail TiVos from extinction, it's cordcutters and OTA.


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## mickinct (Sep 14, 2015)

I wonder what brand of hdd they put in .........Western Digital WD10EURX AV-GP 1 TB??


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Where are the press pics? On the Roamio OTA web page the only pics I noticed showed things that the Bolt and Roamio both have.


Although one of the screnshots shows CNN which is strange since they are advertising an OTA Roamio.


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## Jim5506 (Oct 3, 2004)

Will this new Roamio OTA support TiVo Desktop?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Jim5506 said:


> Will this new Roamio OTA support TiVo Desktop?


Why not? It works with the regular basic Roamio.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Probably. They also have a few other things that are misleading in that chart. Like how they show only the Roamio as having streaming apps, when the Channel Master does have streaming apps, and the Tablo when used with a Roku (that they seem to be including in the Tablo's price) will have the Roku's streaming apps available.


Yeah. I noticed that. One other thing to point out in the Tablo's defense too is that the Roamio OTA would need a Stream, a Mini(s), and a Bridge (total: $360) to serve programs to additional screens while the Tablo would not need any additional accessories (although additional TVs would require their own Roku, Android TV or Fire TV, starting at $40). Also, there's a less expensive 2-tuner version of the Tablo for those who don't need 4 tuners.

There are definitely some use cases where I'd say Tablo could be a better value than the Roamio OTA, particularly for those folks who want "tv everywhere," have multiple TVs, and/or value having all their streaming apps on the same box as their OTA TV.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> ATSC 1.0 works on the VHF hi band, but not as well as on UHF. From what I've read ATSC 1.0 won't work well on the VHF low band, which are the new frequencies being assigned.


Yes, it has challenges, but before the analog shut-down some ATSC 1.0 channels were running on lo-band VHF. They had some serious multi-path issues, but they were working.



> If ATSC 1.0 was usable on VHF, the stations that were on the VHF low band before the first digital transition would have moved back to VHF after the analog stations were shut down. Only VHF hi band stations moved back to VHF and the reception was degraded significantly.


It's usable, just not ideal.



NashGuy said:


> Yeah. When you say "stations," I assume you're talking about the national networks ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and The CW. I'm not sure whether they like the idea of producing and distributing UHD content via their OTA affiliate stations or not. Of course, they were on board with distributing HD content via OTA when we moved from NTSC to ATSC 1.0; they didn't try to keep their HD feeds only for pay TV (cable/sat) back then, so I'm not sure why it would be different this time, although maybe it will be.


This is partially true. They have continued with the OTA model, which is very entrenched. However, there has been a slow move to pay tv, and this may be the case with UHD. A lot of the high-value content is going on the sister cable networks, and not on the broadcast networks, even as the broadcast networks stay around. I think a lot of the stuff that would really benefit from UHD may never hit the networks, and the networks may not go to UHD in the near future. I don't know which networks own what, but I could envision each network launching a UHD version of a cable network they own, and making that a flagship property for high-value scripted content, while keeping a lot of lower-value content like reality TV and sitcoms (which is most of network TV anyway) on the OTA networks, without UHD.



> That said, the OTA affiliate stations definitely appear to be quite keen on ATSC 3.0 (including, one presumes UHD content), as evidenced by the public support from station owners including Sinclair, the Pearl TV consortium (nine owner groups that have banded together expressly to push for ATSC 3.0), as well as the Association of Public Television Stations. ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC Universal all own and operate a number of local affiliates too, so they all have a direct hand in the OTA game.


I'll believe it when I see it. If I had to put money on it, I'd put my money on Universal launching a UHD version of one of the NBCU cable networks, and high-value UHD content becoming available initially on the RDBS band on 99c or 103c, and eventually via IP cable and fiber pay tv providers.



NashGuy said:


> There are definitely some use cases where I'd say Tablo could be a better value than the Roamio OTA, particularly for those folks who want "tv everywhere," have multiple TVs, and/or value having all their streaming apps on the same box as their OTA TV.


Doesn't Tablo transcode everything to MPEG-4? That alone would scare me off. TiVo keeps everything in MPEG-2. That being said, I'm definitely not the target market for this, unless I got one as a toy and a supplement to D*.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Bigg said:


> Yes, it has challenges, but before the analog shut-down some ATSC 1.0 channels were running on lo-band VHF. They had some serious multi-path issues, but they were working.
> It's usable, just not ideal.


They moved one channel back to the VHF hi band here after they shut down the analog channel and and there was a stark contrast in reception from when it was on UHF. Viewers were irate and it received coverage in the local news outlets. Most people need an outdoor antenna to receive the channel now. They had to get permission from FCC to increase signal strength and the coverage still isn't that good. It's sill the most difficult channel to receive and every channel but one is transmitted from the same antenna farm.

If a station sells their frequency and gets a new VHF lo frequency they would have to pay for new ATSC 1.0 eqipment to keep broadcasting or they could get paid by the FCC to broadcast using ATSC 3.0. ATSC 1.0 would cost more money and reception would be significantly degraded.

Only stations that don't have to change frequencies will continue with ATSC 1.0. An then the FCC will probably give them a deadline to receive the funds to upgrade.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

FCC has $$$ to give away to broadcasters but not us to receive 3.0?

Utter BullCarp!

We need the dollars too, so does TIVO. I guess Tivo and us endusers are too poor to bribe the gobment.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

My PBS affiliate and its sub channels have always come in just fine on Low VHF from 34 miles away. I think the Low VHF is hard to receive narrative is anecdotal BS that's an antenna issue rather than a broadcasting one. If you're trying to receive it on a UHF antenna of course you're not going to get it, and most people have no concept of the difference between UHF and VHF antennas much less the different gain profiles you can get in different parts of the VHF spectrum.

My biggest reception problem are the stations on my lone UHF frequency from only 14 miles away, and I have a very good UHF antenna combining with my VHF one.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

foghorn2 said:


> We need the dollars too, so does TIVO. I guess Tivo and us endusers are too poor to bribe the gobment.


I think that's going to have to happen eventually before they can mandate a permanent shut-off of ATSC 1.0 signals. In the meantime they'll still exist right up until that date.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Not sure how we have morphed into believing the Government has anything to do with ATSC 3.0. The last time I read through the info it is completely being driven by the private sector and in fact they have to get the Government to allow them to broadcast via ATSC 3.0. 

The Government isn't paying anyone to convert to ATSC 3.0 and the Government isn't forcing anyone to stop broadcasting in ATSC 1.0 and convert to ATSC 3.0.

From the Government's point of view the spectrum auction and repacking doesn't have anything to do with ATSC 3.0. 

Regarding UHF versus VHF. I have channels being broadcast on 5 frequencies all the broadcast antennas are in the same place. 2 are broadcasting on VHF and 3 on UHF, when I have reception problems it is mostly the channels broadcast on UHF, no real issue with the ones broadcasting on VHF. I am about 35 miles from the towers, have line of site and use a roof mounted deep fringe combo antenna.


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

Earlier this week, I wanted to order the Roamio OTA 1TB. I checked Best Buy and it wasn't available to order yet. I checked Amazon and they showed that it would ship in 2 to 4 weeks. I checked TiVo online and was e-directed to Amazon. I just want to order it. Does anybody have any other options for this yet?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Jim1348 said:


> Earlier this week, I wanted to order the Roamio OTA 1TB. I checked Best Buy and it wasn't available to order yet. I checked Amazon and they showed that it would ship in 2 to 4 weeks. I checked TiVo online and was e-directed to Amazon. I just want to order it. Does anybody have any other options for this yet?


Try TiVo's website again:

https://www.tivo.com/shop/ota-detail


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

Sweet. Thank you. I wonder if they just added it yesterday to their website?


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## mickinct (Sep 14, 2015)

I would call tivo directly and order that's what i did months ago.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Doesn't Tablo transcode everything to MPEG-4? That alone would scare me off. TiVo keeps everything in MPEG-2. That being said, I'm definitely not the target market for this, unless I got one as a toy and a supplement to D*.


Yes, I'm pretty sure it does transcode everything to make it more efficient to sling recordings around wireless networks to various screens. That was my initial objection to the concept too when I first learned about Tablo, as I assumed it would result in a loss of HD PQ. And then I read this:

https://www.tablotv.com/blog/choosing-right-tablo-recording-quality/

If you set the Tablo to transcode OTA to signals into MPEG-4 at 10 Mbps (max quality), that's about equivalent to MPEG-2 at 18 Mbps. Which is a higher bitrate than any of my local OTA HD channels use anyhow. My guess is you'd have to be doing freeze-frame comparisons and poring over pixels to notice any difference between a recording of the native MPEG-2 OTA stream versus the transcoded MPEG-4 recording. Meanwhile, you get the benefit of cramming more hours of HD video on your hard drive with the Tablo than with a TiVo. However, channel surfing is slower with the Tablo due to the transcoding as the live TV buffer fills.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Try TiVo's website again:
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/ota-detail


I find it funny that their quickmode picture is for a presidential primary debate.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> I find it funny that their quickmode picture is for a presidential primary debate.


Why? I find that QuickMode works best on unscripted programming like live shows and "reality" TV.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> My PBS affiliate and its sub channels have always come in just fine on Low VHF from 34 miles away. I think the Low VHF is hard to receive narrative is anecdotal BS that's an antenna issue rather than a broadcasting one. If you're trying to receive it on a UHF antenna of course you're not going to get it, and most people have no concept of the difference between UHF and VHF antennas much less the different gain profiles you can get in different parts of the VHF spectrum.
> 
> My biggest reception problem are the stations on my lone UHF frequency from only 14 miles away, and I have a very good UHF antenna combining with my VHF one.


IIRC, it has to do with multipath in major urban markets, but I don't remember all the antenna stuff from back in the transition days.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> Not sure how we have morphed into believing the Government has anything to do with ATSC 3.0. The last time I read through the info it is completely being driven by the private sector and in fact they have to get the Government to allow them to broadcast via ATSC 3.0.
> 
> The Government isn't paying anyone to convert to ATSC 3.0 and the Government isn't forcing anyone to stop broadcasting in ATSC 1.0 and convert to ATSC 3.0.
> 
> ...


The FCC is a government agency and they are starting a reverse auction on May 31 to buy back UHF frequencies. TV channels 30-36 and 38-51 will be reallocated for mobile broadband and unlicensed wireless services. Congress allocated $1.75 billion.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> The FCC is a government agency and they are starting a reverse auction on May 31 to buy back UHF frequencies. TV channels 30-36 and 38-51 will be reallocated for mobile broadband and unlicensed wireless services. Congress allocated $1.75 billion.


Correct and that is what I was talking about in my 3rd paragraph. But that has nothing to do directly with ATSC 3.0.

It seemed to me that posts had started to attach the FCC buy back and future repacking of spectrum with the Government having something to do with forcing a conversion to ATSC 3.0, which from everything I have read it is not doing. At this point any conversion to ATSC 3.0 is being driven by the private sector meaning it will be up to each individual broadcaster if they change or not.

The only Government/FCC involvement I have seen so foar with ATSC 3.0 is that they have to allow channels to use it, which appears they will, which is significantly different than the analog to digital (ATSC 1.0) conversion which was government mandated and supported in a number of ways.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Why? I find that QuickMode works best on unscripted programming like live shows and "reality" TV.


I would love to know how TiVo recorded CNN on a OTA TiVo.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I would love to know how TiVo recorded CNN on a OTA TiVo.


They put in a cable card, of course.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

rainwater said:


> I would love to know how TiVo recorded CNN on a OTA TiVo.


They use the same image for the QuickMode section on the Bolt. They just reused it for the OTA.



TonyD79 said:


> They put in a cable card, of course.


That would work. I'm sure TiVo has access to spare CableCard brackets. Though I don't guess we technically know yet if the new OTA still has the CableCard access door on the bottom.


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## huskerpower95 (Jan 12, 2016)

Is it just the 6 streaming apps or will others be available?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

huskerpower95 said:


> Is it just the 6 streaming apps or will others be available?


Not exactly. The 6 streaming apps they highlight on the web page are part of the major apps there are others like HBO Go, WWE, MLB.TV, and some others. There are also a bunch of minor ones available through the Opera TV Store.

If you list what you are looking for I am sure someone will tell you if it is there.

Things like Sling TV and Sony's TV service are not there.


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## huskerpower95 (Jan 12, 2016)

atmuscarella said:


> Not exactly. The 6 streaming apps they highlight on the web page are part of the major apps there are others like HBO Go, WWE, MLB.TV, and some others. There are also a bunch of minor ones available through the Opera TV Store.
> 
> If you list what you are looking for I am sure someone will tell you if it is there.
> 
> Things like Sling TV and Sony's TV service are not there.


Mostly HBO GO and Cox on Demand apps


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I would love to know how TiVo recorded CNN on a OTA TiVo.


I think there were some that were simulcast on PBS?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure it does transcode everything to make it more efficient to sling recordings around wireless networks to various screens. That was my initial objection to the concept too when I first learned about Tablo, as I assumed it would result in a loss of HD PQ. And then I read this:
> 
> https://www.tablotv.com/blog/choosing-right-tablo-recording-quality/
> 
> If you set the Tablo to transcode OTA to signals into MPEG-4 at 10 Mbps (max quality), that's about equivalent to MPEG-2 at 18 Mbps. Which is a higher bitrate than any of my local OTA HD channels use anyhow. My guess is you'd have to be doing freeze-frame comparisons and poring over pixels to notice any difference between a recording of the native MPEG-2 OTA stream versus the transcoded MPEG-4 recording. Meanwhile, you get the benefit of cramming more hours of HD video on your hard drive with the Tablo than with a TiVo. However, channel surfing is slower with the Tablo due to the transcoding as the live TV buffer fills.


You're always going to lose something during transcoding.... Although I suppose at that point, it probably doesn't have any practical impact...


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

It arrived tonight, no issues at all getting it set up. Coming from a Series 3 HD the Roamio OTA is MUCH more responsive. I'm copying over a few things from the old TiVo to the new one and that part is SLOW. Any suggestions for speeding it up? From other posts I gather that it's just the way it is when moving stuff off a Series 3 TiVo...


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

olsen623 said:


> It arrived tonight, no issues at all getting it set up. Coming from a Series 3 HD the Roamio OTA is MUCH more responsive. I'm copying over a few things from the old TiVo to the new one and that part is SLOW. Any suggestions for speeding it up? From other posts I gather that it's just the way it is when moving stuff off a Series 3 TiVo...


How slow? You can see the transfer speed under network, diagnostics, transfer speed history.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

olsen623 said:


> I'm copying over a few things from the old TiVo to the new one and that part is SLOW. Any suggestions for speeding it up? From other posts I gather that it's just the way it is when moving stuff off a Series 3 TiVo...


Transferring from my TiVoHD was always a real-time process. If the program was an hour long, it took roughly an hour to transfer. (wired ethernet connected, gigabit switches)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

olsen623 said:


> It arrived tonight, no issues at all getting it set up. Coming from a Series 3 HD the Roamio OTA is MUCH more responsive. I'm copying over a few things from the old TiVo to the new one and that part is SLOW. Any suggestions for speeding it up? From other posts I gather that it's just the way it is when moving stuff off a Series 3 TiVo...


Even if you transferred OTA to OTA it would be slow because it's only a 100Mb/s connection. But then going from a Series 3 or Premiere is even slower because those devices couldn't come close to maxing out the 100BT connection.

While a Bolt with a GigE connection will get as high as 500Mb/s transfer rates.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

JoeKustra said:


> How slow? You can see the transfer speed under network, diagnostics, transfer speed history.


About 5Mb/s slow. There wasn't that much to transfer over and it finished overnight. I didn't both transferring over the kids stuff. The new Roamio OTA has already filled up with all those "educational" PBS cartoons.

Now doing the erase procedure on the HD and getting it ready to sell on ebay or craigslist.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

olsen623 said:


> About 5Mb/s slow. There wasn't that much to transfer over and it finished overnight. I didn't both transferring over the kids stuff. The new Roamio OTA has already filled up with all those "educational" PBS cartoons.
> 
> Now doing the erase procedure on the HD and getting it ready to sell on ebay or craigslist.


That's bad. My rate when transferring to a basic Roamio from a basic Premiere is about 90Mbps. It might be higher but both use wireless adapters. Both are converted to 802.11ac and I use a tri-band dual core router.


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## sheshechic (Apr 14, 2012)

olsen623 said:


> It arrived tonight, no issues at all getting it set up. Coming from a Series 3 HD the Roamio OTA is MUCH more responsive. I'm copying over a few things from the old TiVo to the new one and that part is SLOW. Any suggestions for speeding it up? From other posts I gather that it's just the way it is when moving stuff off a Series 3 TiVo...


Is there still a CableCard access door on the bottom?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Even if you transferred OTA to OTA it would be slow because it's only a 100Mb/s connection. But then going from a Series 3 or Premiere is even slower because those devices couldn't come close to maxing out the 100BT connection.
> 
> While a Bolt with a GigE connection will get as high as 500Mb/s transfer rates.


The S3 is definitely not network limited. The Premiere going to TiVo Desktop does about 40mbps, even when the machines have a gigabit connection between them.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> The S3 is definitely not network limited. The Premiere going to TiVo Desktop does about 40mbps, even when the machines have a gigabit connection between them.


Yes the S3 is hardware limited like the Premiere. Just more limited.


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## rorrim (Jun 21, 2005)

I'm considering purchasing one just to test out how viable it is to cut the cord. I already have a couple of lifetime Roamio basics connected to a pair of Minis. I've really thought about starting to play with antennas and streaming services to see how much I would actually miss. I could do that with my second Roamio, but the price here is good enough to play around without losing anything that is currently available now.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rorrim said:


> I'm considering purchasing one just to test out how viable it is to cut the cord. I already have a couple of lifetime Roamio basics connected to a pair of Minis. I've really thought about starting to play with antennas and streaming services to see how much I would actually miss. I could do that with my second Roamio, but the price here is good enough to play around without losing anything that is currently available now.


It's actually not that hard. Here's how I would proceed. First I would look at my viewing habits. If there are networks that aren't broadcast, I'd check their streaming ability. Then I would visit zap2it, enter my zipcode, select OTA, and check the channels. With those channels I would visit rabbitears to see the signal strengths. Also I would check Wiki to see what it says about the stations.

I have a 2-tuner Premiere that I've configured for OTA. Looking at the channel list I know that some can never be received. But I do agree that the price of the OTA Roamio makes your job easier.


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## rorrim (Jun 21, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> It's actually not that hard. Here's how I would proceed. First I would look at my viewing habits. If there are networks that aren't broadcast, I'd check their streaming ability. Then I would visit zap2it, enter my zipcode, select OTA, and check the channels. With those channels I would visit rabbitears to see the signal strengths. Also I would check Wiki to see what it says about the stations.
> 
> I have a 2-tuner Premiere that I've configured for OTA. Looking at the channel list I know that some can never be received. But I do agree that the price of the OTA Roamio makes your job easier.


I've already been doing that. In fact, I have a couple of Premieres here with lifetime and one of them is connected to a not so good antenna. I get a lot better reception when I connect the same antenna to my Roamio basic so that is definitely part of my decision. I've got a Roku and an Apple TV so I have been trying to do as much streaming as I can before making the decision. I have subscriptions to Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Netflix.

The biggest things always come down to live TV and sports only available on cable. SlingTV is making that easier, but it's still live TV and at the moment only some of that is available for "rebroadcasting".


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> Correct and that is what I was talking about in my 3rd paragraph. But that has nothing to do directly with ATSC 3.0.
> 
> It seemed to me that posts had started to attach the FCC buy back and future repacking of spectrum with the Government having something to do with forcing a conversion to ATSC 3.0, which from everything I have read it is not doing. At this point any conversion to ATSC 3.0 is being driven by the private sector meaning it will be up to each individual broadcaster if they change or not.
> 
> The only Government/FCC involvement I have seen so foar with ATSC 3.0 is that they have to allow channels to use it, which appears they will, which is significantly different than the analog to digital (ATSC 1.0) conversion which was government mandated and supported in a number of ways.


Congress established a $1.75 billion TV Broadcaster Relocation Fund
to pay reasonable relocation costs of TV stations and MVPDs. Reimbursement funds will be available to stations and MVPDs as
they incur expenses. The Media Bureau has developed a list of eligible expenses and estimated costs.

Do you think if a station sells their current frequency and moves to a VHF low frequencey, that the FCC would reimburse them to continue broadcasting using ATSC 1.0 standard? Since the FCC is pushing ATSC 3.0, I would think that only the ATSC 3.0 standard would be an eligible expense.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

The FCC is not pushing ATSC 3.0. The broadcast industry is. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Congress established a $1.75 billion TV Broadcaster Relocation Fund
> to pay reasonable relocation costs of TV stations and MVPDs. Reimbursement funds will be available to stations and MVPDs as
> they incur expenses. The Media Bureau has developed a list of eligible expenses and estimated costs.
> 
> Do you think if a station sells their current frequency and moves to a VHF low frequencey, that the FCC would reimburse them to continue broadcasting using ATSC 1.0 standard? Since the FCC is pushing ATSC 3.0, I would think that only the ATSC 3.0 standard would be an eligible expense.


The FCC isn't push ATSC 3.0 they haven't even approved it for use yet. ATSC 3.0 is being developed and driven by the private sector as away for OTA to be more profitable. It is going to increase available bandwidth (more channels per frequency and/or UHD) and much better reception including the ability for hand held devices (phones & tablets) to be able to get good reception almost anywhere.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

sheshechic said:


> Is there still a CableCard access door on the bottom?


Yes, there is an access door but no bracket installed.


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## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

My Kill-A-Watt reports it is running about 16W under all conditions. Forcing it into standby doesn't have much effect so I'll plan to keep it in the default "no power savings" mode.

The left side of the box (with the HDD) runs cool and the right side (with the processor) runs a bit warmer than my old S3 HD TiVo but I suspect the little fan in the Roamio is just not as efficient. On the Roamio the MBT is in the low 40Cs so probably not a big deal at all.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

olsen623 said:


> My Kill-A-Watt reports it is running about 16W under all conditions. Forcing it into standby doesn't have much effect so I'll plan to keep it in the default "no power savings" mode.
> 
> The left side of the box (with the HDD) runs cool and the right side (with the processor) runs a bit warmer than my old S3 HD TiVo but I suspect the little fan in the Roamio is just not as efficient. On the Roamio the MBT is in the low 40Cs so probably not a big deal at all.


Standby with high power savings will decrease the power used. Since it won't buffer the tuners unless recording. And it will power down the hard drive when not recording in standby.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> The FCC isn't push ATSC 3.0 they haven't even approved it for use yet. ATSC 3.0 is being developed and driven by the private sector as away for OTA to be more profitable. It is going to increase available bandwidth (more channels per frequency and/or UHD) and much better reception including the ability for hand held devices (phones & tablets) to be able to get good reception almost anywhere.


http://current.org/2016/05/atsc-spells-progress-for-public-television/

"Broadcasters would be able to invest in this new technology of the future , buying 3.0-compatible equipment for which they will be compensated during the FCCs channel repacking process."

If the FCC will compensate broadcasters for new ATSC 3.0 equipment, then I think they are pushing it. Remember, congress has allocated $1.75 Billion for transition expenses.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

olsen623 said:


> My Kill-A-Watt reports it is running about 16W under all conditions. Forcing it into standby doesn't have much effect so I'll plan to keep it in the default "no power savings" mode.
> 
> The left side of the box (with the HDD) runs cool and the right side (with the processor) runs a bit warmer than my old S3 HD TiVo but I suspect the little fan in the Roamio is just not as efficient. On the Roamio the MBT is in the low 40Cs so probably not a big deal at all.


Leave the Kill-A-Watt connected and enable maximum power savings, After two hours check your power consumption and see how much you save. Please come back and let us know. Thanks.

My warm spot is at the rf connection. Normal MBT is 39-41C. Put a 3TB drive in and it might increase to 43C.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> http://current.org/2016/05/atsc-spells-progress-for-public-television/
> 
> "Broadcasters would be able to invest in this new technology of the future , buying 3.0-compatible equipment for which they will be compensated during the FCCs channel repacking process."
> 
> If the FCC will compensate broadcasters for new ATSC 3.0 equipment, then I think they are pushing it. Remember, congress has allocated $1.75 Billion for transition expenses.


The compensation they are talking about is for giving up their current channel. The FCC hasn't even approved ATSC 3.0 broadcasts and isn't given anyone special money to convert. I think there is allot of spin going on.


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## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

Since this is the Roamio OTA thread I have a question. Am I understanding this right, Roamio OTA does not let you watch recorded shows on the Tivo app (iOS in my case) even at home? On the Tivo website I found a page detailing instructions on streaming/downloading to a device. The list of supported Tivos did not include the OTA. Plus on the OTA marketing page it does not say anything about the apps other than you can use them to program and as a remote. My wife often watches recorded shows from our Roamio Pro on her iPad at home on our network. I want to cut the cord, buy a Roamio OTA and sell the Pro. If it does not stream recorded shows to devices on the same network then I am not sure it will fit our needs. The Bolt with lifetime is crazy expensive, but so was the Pro I guess so maybe I shouldn't complain?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Welshdog said:


> Since this is the Roamio OTA thread I have a question. Am I understanding this right, Roamio OTA does not let you watch recorded shows on the Tivo app (iOS in my case) even at home? On the Tivo website I found a page detailing instructions on streaming/downloading to a device. The list of supported Tivos did not include the OTA. Plus on the OTA marketing page it does not say anything about the apps other than you can use them to program and as a remote. My wife often watches recorded shows from our Roamio Pro on her iPad at home on our network. I want to cut the cord, buy a Roamio OTA and sell the Pro. If it does not stream recorded shows to devices on the same network then I am not sure it will fit our needs. The Bolt with lifetime is crazy expensive, but so was the Pro I guess so maybe I shouldn't complain?


You are correct the Roamio OTA (and the base Roamio) do not have the built in ability to stream to Android & iOS devices (or to a web browser). You can however add that ability by buying an external Stream device. It is $130 from TiVo: https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/tivo-stream or you could try buying a used one from someone on ebay or amazon.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Welshdog said:


> Since this is the Roamio OTA thread I have a question. Am I understanding this right, Roamio OTA does not let you watch recorded shows on the Tivo app (iOS in my case) even at home? On the Tivo website I found a page detailing instructions on streaming/downloading to a device. The list of supported Tivos did not include the OTA. Plus on the OTA marketing page it does not say anything about the apps other than you can use them to program and as a remote. My wife often watches recorded shows from our Roamio Pro on her iPad at home on our network. I want to cut the cord, buy a Roamio OTA and sell the Pro. If it does not stream recorded shows to devices on the same network then I am not sure it will fit our needs. The Bolt with lifetime is crazy expensive, but so was the Pro I guess so maybe I shouldn't complain?


I have a base Roamio (same as the OTA version but it has the option of using a cable card). I have only used it for OTA though. I bought a separate TiVo stream a couple of years ago and it has worked well for streaming around the house or downloading content to my IOS devices. I think it even has some advantages over the built in streaming from the BOLT (more devices?). I have used it for out of the home streaming but my internet uplink speed is so low that it isn't very reliable (I only have 1Mbps up). If you have better uplink speed it would probably work OK.

I think I found a little better price for the TiVo stream online vs. buying direct from TiVo. Be careful if it's used though as I have heard that the ones that were provided by cable companies can't be used again.


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## Nelson2009 (Mar 21, 2009)

Hi 
If I plan to purchase New Roamio OTA 1TB Model. Can you pick up used roamio with cablecard to pull it out and install on new OTA ? 
Will Subscription continue work and ever guide tv for cable ? just curious if anyone experience it ?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Nelson2009 said:


> Hi
> If I plan to purchase New Roamio OTA 1TB Model. Can you pick up used roamio with cablecard to pull it out and install on new OTA ?
> Will Subscription continue work and ever guide tv for cable ? just curious if anyone experience it ?


Please read some of this thread.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528452


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## Nelson2009 (Mar 21, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> Please read some of this thread.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=528452


thanks i understand but this model was release in April for 1TB. I assume it would be same hardware as old roamio But i was just double check if they change any hardware that we might not able to use cablecard with it


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## IrishOyes (Jun 18, 2016)

*Has anyone else experienced the loss of antenna signal when "upgrading" from an older Tivo HD Series 3 to Roamio OTA*? I'm experiencing a significant loss of signal (up to 35% or more) and the only thing different is the Roamio vs the old Tivo.

Antenna professionally installed a few years ago outside of house, 30ft up, with preamp in attic. Nothing moved or changed. Same coax cable, same everything. Signal was good on old Tivo HD (no cable, just OTA) but now it's crap.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

IrishOyes said:


> *Has anyone else experienced the loss of antenna signal when "upgrading" from an older Tivo HD Series 3 to Roamio OTA*? I'm experiencing a significant loss of signal (up to 35% or more) and the only thing different is the Roamio vs the old Tivo.
> 
> Antenna professionally installed a few years ago outside of house, 30ft up, with preamp in attic. Nothing moved or changed. Same coax cable, same everything. Signal was good on old Tivo HD (no cable, just OTA) but now it's crap.


How is the actual picture? You are comparing apples to oranges. The signal strength levels shown is not necessarily the same between different model bolts.
I typically get a rock solid signal with just 30% on Roamios.


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