# FiOS trying to make me keep one box



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

I recently moved and got FiOS at my residence. When I set up the order initially, it would not allow me to place the order without at least one set top box and I had to call in to get cablecards. When I did the rep said it would not allow him to set up the service without a box either but I could return the box later and it would come off of my bill (believing this was probably my first mistake). I now have my Tivos set up and am completely moved in and I went to their site to try to return the box and it will not let you take the quantity down to 0. I chatted with a rep who told me at least one box (at a ridiculous $12 per month) is required.

I thought there were several people on here without boxes using FiOS. Should I try calling in and see if CSR roulette works or try something else? They no longer have any Verizon Stores here where I can walk in with the box and return it. 

Possible solutions welcomed.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Make a call. Obviously the CSR is incorrect. The only thing you can to do is talk to the company and get it changed or cancel service or live with it.


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## leesweet (Mar 13, 2004)

Exactly. I have no FiOS hardware besides the cablecard and the router.


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## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

In 2009 when i first got fios i tried there dvr ,i used it for 1 week didnt like it so i got 2 tivo premiere boxes and returned the motorola dvr.i havent had no problems using mine without a fios dvr. I read somewhere that verizon makes you get a fios box when you first get fios but you can return it if you got the tivo,clearly the csr doesnt know what hes talking about. they cant force you to keep their dvr as long as you have your tivo.


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## DVRMike (Aug 30, 2013)

I just had Fios installed. I placed the order online with a set top box and then called the next day and had the set top box replaced with a cable card. It took a few minutes but the rep was able to get it done. The cable card was shipped to my house with the router before installation day. 



I am only paying for the cable card rental and I have no set top box on my account.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

If CSR roulette doesn't work, file a complaint with the FCC. That usually gets you in contact with someone competent who has the authority to actually do something other than follow the usual CSR script.

https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Verizon wanted to charge me to return my boxes at the Verizon store. They told me I could return them for free at the UPS store which I did. No more boxes in my house. 

Do you have a UPS store near you? Take your box in there. They'll give you a receipt and they'll return it for you with no charge.

ETA: I live in Nova also.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Are you on a bundle that comes with a box?

TWC gives me a box... essentially free. It sits in my closet. If they didn't give me this box, my bill would actually go UP. Taking the box got me a better rate. You might see if that's what's going on.


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## dellybelly (Jan 26, 2015)

Is your cablecard listed on your account when you go into the My Fios site to change equipment?


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

You can not set up cablecard only service on the website, you have to talk to a CSR (that is how we set up FiOS with no box last June).


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Grakthis said:


> Are you on a bundle that comes with a box?
> 
> TWC gives me a box... essentially free. It sits in my closet. If they didn't give me this box, my bill would actually go UP. Taking the box got me a better rate. You might see if that's what's going on.


No, there is no inclusion of equipment with FiOS. If it were free, I would keep it for a spare room or for the access to OnDemand for my pay channels, but for $12 a month, I don't want it.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

larrs said:


> No, there is no inclusion of equipment with FiOS. If it were free, I would keep it for a spare room or for the access to OnDemand for my pay channels, but for $12 a month, I don't want it.


CSR doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't have a box and been on FIOS for ever.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

waynomo said:


> Verizon wanted to charge me to return my boxes at the Verizon store. They told me I could return them for free at the UPS store which I did. No more boxes in my house.
> 
> Do you have a UPS store near you? Take your box in there. They'll give you a receipt and they'll return it for you with no charge.
> 
> ETA: I live in Nova also.


I just moved to Dallas from NoVA and there are no Verizon Stores that accept FiOS equipment. I will try the UPS route (with their provided label) and see what they do.


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

Another FiOS user here with only 4 Cable Cards on my account.

No other equipment and I have had it this way for years.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

I only have 1 cable card.. no STB... When I started I did have 1 STB/DVR that I used in a separate room that I've since sent back. Good luck.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Semi-OT. If they don't give you any boxes included, does that also mean if you only have one CableCard you have to pay per month for it? On Comcast, they include a box with their digital packages, so if you have a CableCard, you get a credit for it per federal law.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Semi-OT. If they don't give you any boxes included, does that also mean if you only have one CableCard you have to pay per month for it? On Comcast, they include a box with their digital packages, so if you have a CableCard, you get a credit for it per federal law.


Yes, all cablecards (first, second or beyond) are $5 per month on FiOS. Since there is no "included" STB in their programming packages, there is no credit for your first card like there is on Comcast.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

leesweet said:


> Exactly. I have no FiOS hardware besides the cablecard and the router.


The same here but I don't use their router. I've been using my own routers for 7+ years on FiOS. I currently have five of the FiOS routers gathering dust in a closet. I've never like using them because they were alays lacking compared to my Dlink and Asus Routers. The Dlink gaming routers I used and the Asus N56U router I currently use have always run circles around the FiOS Actiontec routers.

Back in 2007/2008 I did have an HD STB from FIOS just for VOD. So I did have their router also connected for the STB. But I found I could get the streaming content they had from other means and I rarely ever used it. So I turned it in to save the $10 a month they charged at the time for the HD STB. BAck then I had eight cable cards but they were $2.99 a month. AT $4.99 a month they are much more expensive now, but I only use one cable card from FIOS now since I use TiVo Minis.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> The same here but I don't use their router. I've been using my own routers for 7+ years on FiOS. I currently have five of the FiOS routers gathering dust in a closet. I've never like using them because they were alays lacking compared to my Dlink and Asus Routers. The Dlink gaming routers I used and the Asus N56U router I currently use have always run circles around the FiOS Actiontec routers.
> 
> Back in 2007/2008 I did have an HD STB from FIOS just for VOD. So I did have their router also connected for the STB. But I found I could get the streaming content they had from other means and I rarely ever used it. So I turned it in to save the $10 a month they charged at the time for the HD STB. BAck then I had eight cable cards but they were $2.99 a month. AT $4.99 a month they are much more expensive now, but I only use one cable card from FIOS now since I use TiVo Minis.


At the risk of going way off topic, I tried the new Quantum router and it performs okay. I saw no real performance difference between it and our Asus N66U. I went back to the Asus mainly because I run Merlin's variation of the Asus firmware and it has a number of features the Quantum doesn't.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I have two cablecards and the router from Verizon, but no STBs. They don't charge for the router and I only use it for wireless connectivity with a laptop. I run a pfSense homebrew router on my network using parts I culled together from my junk box and it works great.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> At the risk of going way off topic, I tried the new Quantum router and it performs okay. I saw no real performance difference between it and our Asus N66U. I went back to the Asus mainly because I run Merlin's variation of the Asus firmware and it has a number of features the Quantum doesn't.


I am using their router and I love it. I have a couple of Wireless AC devices and I can really tell the difference than my old N router. I get awesome coverage as well although I did add an AC extender at the very back upstairs of my house for ipad/phone access.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> I have two cablecards and the router from Verizon, but no STBs. They don't charge for the router and I only use it for wireless connectivity with a laptop. I run a pfSense homebrew router on my network using parts I culled together from my junk box and it works great.


I think with me it was either $8 per month for the router or buy it. I went with buying it (about 18 month payback if I remember correctly).


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> At the risk of going way off topic, I tried the new Quantum router and it performs okay. I saw no real performance difference between it and our Asus N66U. I went back to the Asus mainly because I run Merlin's variation of the Asus firmware and it has a number of features the Quantum doesn't.


Which features?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Yes, all cablecards (first, second or beyond) are $5 per month on FiOS. Since there is no "included" STB in their programming packages, there is no credit for your first card like there is on Comcast.


Ah ok, sneaky way around federal law/ way to charge customers more.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

waynomo said:


> Which features?


Primarily multiple guest AP options (I use one for actual guests and one for my son's old Playstation than only does WEP) and the traffic monitoring and logging. There are a couple of other minor features that could live without, but those are the key ones. The guest access feature is actually a core feature of the Asus firmware, but Merlin has added a few bells and whistles as well as some advanced monitoring and logging options. I also find that Merlin's build provides slightly better performance (he uses different drivers).

Overall, the Quantum Router is good performer. It didn't have any guest wireless options when I got, but that feature was recently added in a firmware update.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> Ah ok, sneaky way around federal law/ way to charge customers more.


Time Warner does the exact same thing.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Time Warner does the exact same thing.


Their new $89.99/month Triple Play promo Pkg includes equipment I believe tho.


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## jeremymc7 (Feb 11, 2015)

larrs said:


> I recently moved and got FiOS at my residence. When I set up the order initially, it would not allow me to place the order without at least one set top box and I had to call in to get cablecards. When I did the rep said it would not allow him to set up the service without a box either but I could return the box later and it would come off of my bill (believing this was probably my first mistake). I now have my Tivos set up and am completely moved in and I went to their site to try to return the box and it will not let you take the quantity down to 0. I chatted with a rep who told me at least one box (at a ridiculous $12 per month) is required.
> 
> I thought there were several people on here without boxes using FiOS. Should I try calling in and see if CSR roulette works or try something else? They no longer have any Verizon Stores here where I can walk in with the box and return it.
> 
> Possible solutions welcomed.


I have FIOS without a box or EVEN a cable card. In my area it's still clear qaam


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## bmille05 (Feb 26, 2014)

So I had the same dilemma with Verizon. My solution was I told them I was going to remove my 3 existing dvr's and get a HD non dvr box as a replacement. But I told them that I will go to a Verizon store to p/u the new box. I then got the email confirmation of the transaction online and it said if I don't p/u the new box in 10 days the order will be cancelled. And they are shipping me the 3 boxes to use to return the dvr's. So I won't have any cable boxes in the house just a cable card. DONE! They can't bill you for something you never got!


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

bmille05 said:


> ...They can't bill you for something you never got!


This is Verizon we're talking about...make sure you check your bill carefully!


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## bmille05 (Feb 26, 2014)

Diana Collins said:


> This is Verizon we're talking about...make sure you check your bill carefully!


I will definitely be checking my bill. Here is the confirmation email:

*You have chosen to pick up your FiOS equipment at a Verizon store location. Find a store nearby
Your equipment is ready to be activated as soon as you pick it up. You should set up your equipment as soon as possible since billing begins the day you pick it up from the store.
Please note that if your equipment is not picked up within 10 days after your due date, your order will be canceled.*

I will let everyone know if this works.


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## ntlord (Nov 30, 2013)

Since this seems like a relevant place to ask this question, I will. I just bought a new place, and I currently use Comcast, but plan to switch to FIOS.

As my condo currently sits it has a piece of fiber sitting in one of those Leviton boxes, along with a bunch of RG6 coax going to various places. I plan to install a Leviton cable splitter shortly. 

I have my own router and networking devices, which I plan to use. Obviously, I also plan to use Tivo. What do I need to tell Verizon to get the right stuff? I don't want any of their cable boxes, modems, or routers. Is that possible? Obviously, I'll need a cable card, but what should I tell them regarding the internet situation?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ntlord said:


> Since this seems like a relevant place to ask this question, I will. I just bought a new place, and I currently use Comcast, but plan to switch to FIOS.
> 
> As my condo currently sits it has a piece of fiber sitting in one of those Leviton boxes, along with a bunch of RG6 coax going to various places. I plan to install a Leviton cable splitter shortly.
> 
> I have my own router and networking devices, which I plan to use. Obviously, I also plan to use Tivo. What do I need to tell Verizon to get the right stuff? I don't want any of their cable boxes, modems, or routers. Is that possible? Obviously, I'll need a cable card, but what should I tell them regarding the internet situation?


They will force you to use their router on the install. If you have CAT-5 from the ONT to the router location, and are set up that way, you can use your own router after they finish installing it.

There is a really good FAQ on dslreports that details every different configuration. You don't need to worry about their boxes getting internet/VOD if you use TiVo exclusively, just not that you will not get their VOD through TiVo.


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## ntlord (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks for this. Yes, I do have cat 5 near the ONT (it would go in one of those leviton boxes). Getting a straight answer from Verizon on this was impossible. They will literally not tell you that you can hook up the ONT directly to your own router. Just sucks I have to buy their stupid router anyway.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ntlord said:


> Thanks for this. Yes, I do have cat 5 near the ONT (it would go in one of those leviton boxes). Getting a straight answer from Verizon on this was impossible. They will literally not tell you that you can hook up the ONT directly to your own router. Just sucks I have to buy their stupid router anyway.


They won't tell you that because normally they don't run CAT-5, so you have to use the special MoCA WAN connection baked into their router. It makes their install a lot easier, as they just drop the ONT at the demarc or by the electrical panel, give it power, and then the rest is just a literal unplug-plug of the cable modem and boxes to provide FIOS, and MoCA makes the cabling the same as if Comcast/RCN/TWC/BHN were using DOCSIS. But if you already have your own CAT cable, you can certainly use that.

They won't support your router, but if you know enough to use your own router, you probably know enough to support it. If you get their new Quantum router, you could use it as another AP on Ethernet, as it's AC1750 IIRC.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

ntlord said:


> Since this seems like a relevant place to ask this question, I will. I just bought a new place, and I currently use Comcast, but plan to switch to FIOS.
> 
> As my condo currently sits it has a piece of fiber sitting in one of those Leviton boxes, along with a bunch of RG6 coax going to various places. I plan to install a Leviton cable splitter shortly.
> 
> I have my own router and networking devices, which I plan to use. Obviously, I also plan to use Tivo. What do I need to tell Verizon to get the right stuff? I don't want any of their cable boxes, modems, or routers. Is that possible? Obviously, I'll need a cable card, but what should I tell them regarding the internet situation?


The Verizon provided equipment and connection options I believe depend on the service you've contracted for. I would post your location, the service that you've contracted for and maybe you'll get responses from FiOS TiVo users in the area. I believe that you can likely have an intelligent conversation with a Verizon installation supervisor before hand to discuss it. I would also maybe poll the neighborhood and check their installs.

What equipment do you plan on using that you already have or are intending on using?

Sometimes you only get out of a conversation a response to what you've input into the discussion.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

WVZR1 said:


> The Verizon provided equipment and connection options I believe depend on the service you've contracted for. I would post your location, the service that you've contracted for and maybe you'll get responses from FiOS TiVo users in the area. I believe that you can likely have an intelligent conversation with a Verizon installation supervisor before hand to discuss it. I would also maybe poll the neighborhood and check their installs.
> 
> What equipment do you plan on using that you already have or are intending on using?
> 
> Sometimes you only get out of a conversation a response to what you've input into the discussion.


Unless it's an older Ethernet install (like 2006 era), Verizon will almost always install the router on coax, unless you're getting the 150mbps package or higher, or the user elects to use Ethernet and has provided their own Ethernet install. ONTs can be inside or outside, there does seem to be inconsistency on that one.


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## ntlord (Nov 30, 2013)

So, in my case, the piece of fiber is like 6 inches away from where all my cat5 is sitting, so I can't imagine I'll have a problem there. 

But, here is my question: If I elect ethernet, instead of coax, will my tivo box still be able to connect to the coax port on the ONT for TV signal?

edit: I live in D.C. area. In terms of equipment, I'll get whatever equipment will make this happen. But, I run a custom built router, running sophos astaro software. The problem is I can't run it NAT'd behind some POS verizon router, it needs a public IP because of VPN issues. 

In terms of service I was thinking 50mbit + normal HD cable plan.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ntlord said:


> So, in my case, the piece of fiber is like 6 inches away from where all my cat5 is sitting, so I can't imagine I'll have a problem there.
> 
> But, here is my question: If I elect ethernet, instead of coax, will my tivo box still be able to connect to the coax port on the ONT for TV signal?
> 
> ...


As long as you don't use a FiOS STB, there is no need to use the FiOS router. WHen you use EThernet from the ONT that is just for the INternet connection. The Coax will still carry just the TV signals.

I've been using Ethernet from my FiOS ONT for 7.5 years now. I never wanted to be reliant on their equipment since if there was an issue there would be downtime. While with Ethernet you can just hook up any router to the ONT.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ntlord said:


> So, in my case, the piece of fiber is like 6 inches away from where all my cat5 is sitting, so I can't imagine I'll have a problem there.
> 
> But, here is my question: If I elect ethernet, instead of coax, will my tivo box still be able to connect to the coax port on the ONT for TV signal?
> 
> ...


If you have no FIOS STBs, you can avoid their equipment alltogether, if you want a FIOS box for VOD, you could put their router as a MoCA bridge behind your firewall/router, which is one of the configurations outlined on the dslreports page.

The TiVo needs the QAM signal from the ONT, but can get internet from the Ethernet port. If you use the Verizon router either as the router, or as a MoCA bridge behind your own router, than it can get internet through MoCA.


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