# TivoHD - How to upgrade internal hard drive



## Greg Lovern

On a TivoHD, how do I replace the internal hard drive with a larger one?

I read through the eSATA Drive Expansion FAQ in the Series3 HDTV DVRs forum here that describes how to add a Non-Verified external drive, but how do you replace the internal drive?

I did that previously with my Series 2, and then later I added a Weaknees bracket to it and a 2nd internal hard drive. 

I'm also familiar with the need to choose a drive that is rated for 24/7 use etc. The drives I have in my Series 2 (240080) are Western Digital WB3200SB.


Thanks,

Greg


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## Da Goon

WinMFS


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## turbovr6

I purchased the Weaknees 1TB Hitachi Drive. I paid a lot for it $549 but the drive already has the Tivo OS installed and it is a direct swap. Took me 5 minutes to change out the drive. I tried using some tools to upgrade the hard drive in my S2 a few years back and I feel that the Tivo was never quite right. After that I bought a preloaded drive and it was all good again. A couple of $$ is worth the less hassle IMO.


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## murryamorris

turbovr6 said:


> I purchased the Weaknees 1TB Hitachi Drive. I paid a lot for it $549 but the drive already has the Tivo OS installed and it is a direct swap. Took me 5 minutes to change out the drive. I tried using some tools to upgrade the hard drive in my S2 a few years back and I feel that the Tivo was never quite right. After that I bought a preloaded drive and it was all good again. A couple of $$ is worth the less hassle IMO.


Like Da Goon said, WinMFS is the way to go. It's not like the old Linux updates we used. It's easy and it works great. I've imaged and upgraded my Tivos (S3 and HD) with 1TB internal drives and now have backups as well on my computers. Just copy or image the drive that comes with the Tivo. It works perfectly. It only cost a little over $300 for the Hitachi 1TB drive and you can run acoustic management on them if you don't want to get a DVR specific drive (I actually have one Seagate DB35 also and it doesn't sound any quieter than the Hitachi with acoustic set low.


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## Brad Bishop

turbovr6 said:


> I purchased the Weaknees 1TB Hitachi Drive. I paid a lot for it $549 but the drive already has the Tivo OS installed and it is a direct swap. Took me 5 minutes to change out the drive. I tried using some tools to upgrade the hard drive in my S2 a few years back and I feel that the Tivo was never quite right. After that I bought a preloaded drive and it was all good again. A couple of $$ is worth the less hassle IMO.


It's obvious that this works but I thought, back in the old TiVo days, that the drives had some specific serial number associated with them and you couldn't swap back and forth. Perhaps they just run a script which grabs the serial number from the TiVo as the first thing it does, though.


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## tivoupgrade

Brad Bishop said:


> It's obvious that this works but I thought, back in the old TiVo days, that the drives had some specific serial number associated with them and you couldn't swap back and forth. Perhaps they just run a script which grabs the serial number from the TiVo as the first thing it does, though.


The serial number has always been specific to the unit and not the hard drive (ie. stored in firmware on the systemboard of the TiVo). What you may be thinking of is that in order to protect the security of the content recorded on a drive, once a drive is used in one TiVo, it cannot be moved to another TiVo and actually be used without having to do a "clear and delete everything" - then it can be used on the other unit. IE. The drive IS keyed to the unit it is created for, but not until it is actually used and the information that keys it to the unit is not stored permanently.


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## Thos19

With drives as large as 1TB from Hitachi, WD, etc, is it only possible to format the drives on PC's that are SATA capable? I ask this because I have in the past used a Dell 4400 2.0ghz machine with a SATA to IDE converter (from Addonics) to format a 500GB drive for my Series 3. That worked fine with MFS, but I've read that such bridges can't handle such a large drive as 1TB.

Anyone have any experience with doing this type of upgrade with similar conditions? Any help is sincerely appreciated.

Thos.


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## headless chicken

Can the TivoHD be upgraded with a larger internal hard drive, or is it just the Series3 that can be upgraded? I read in another thread this functionality was disabled in the less expensive TivoHD and I don't know which one to get


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## murryamorris

headless chicken said:


> Can the TivoHD be upgraded with a larger internal hard drive, or is it just the Series3 that can be upgraded? I read in another thread this functionality was disabled in the less expensive TivoHD and I don't know which one to get


HD can also, I have both upgraded. Have a 1TB Hitachi in the HD and it works perfect.


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## bluebeetle

Can you keep your recordings when you upgrade? I thought I read some place that WinMFS won't let you do that.


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## murryamorris

bluebeetle said:


> Can you keep your recordings when you upgrade? I thought I read some place that WinMFS won't let you do that.


If you do a copy you can but I didn't. I made an image and then did a restore so I could be sure my backup images worked.


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## brettatk

Could someone please let me know if I got this right? I do not want to mess up a brand new 1TB drive.

1) Connect original Tivo drive to PC with sata cable
2) Connect new sata drive to pc with sata cable
3) Run WinMFS application
4) Set A drive as Source Drive (original Tivo drive)
5) Run MfsCopy
6) Take new drive and insert into Tivo, keep orginal as a backup.

Is there something I'm missing or is that pretty much it? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## flatcurve

Thos19 said:


> With drives as large as 1TB from Hitachi, WD, etc, is it only possible to format the drives on PC's that are SATA capable? I ask this because I have in the past used a Dell 4400 2.0ghz machine with a SATA to IDE converter (from Addonics) to format a 500GB drive for my Series 3. That worked fine with MFS, but I've read that such bridges can't handle such a large drive as 1TB.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with doing this type of upgrade with similar conditions? Any help is sincerely appreciated.
> 
> Thos.


It _should_ work fine. I've used those SATA to IDE converters to run diagnostics on a 1TB hitachi before and it worked fine. But I didn't actually program the drive that way though.


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## Christian Dad

brettatk said:


> Could someone please let me know if I got this right? I do not want to mess up a brand new 1TB drive.
> 
> 1) Connect original Tivo drive to PC with sata cable
> 2) Connect new sata drive to pc with sata cable
> 3) Run WinMFS application
> 4) Set A drive as Source Drive (original Tivo drive)
> 5) Run MfsCopy
> 6) Take new drive and insert into Tivo, keep orginal as a backup.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing or is that pretty much it? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


Greetings all,
I've recently gone from Series 2 to TivoHD, and would like to upgrade the capacity as well. I take it from the lack of response to the above that it is the correct procedure...

I have more questions:

1) Where does one acquire a copy of WinMFS ?

2) In my Series 2, I bought a bracket from Weaknees and have 2 drives. Is that sort of thing also possible for the HD? Two 1T drives?


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## brettatk

Christian Dad said:


> Greetings all,
> I've recently gone from Series 2 to TivoHD, and would like to upgrade the capacity as well. I take it from the lack of response to the above that it is the correct procedure...
> 
> I have more questions:
> 
> 1) Where does one acquire a copy of WinMFS ?
> 
> 2) In my Series 2, I bought a bracket from Weaknees and have 2 drives. Is that sort of thing also possible for the HD? Two 1T drives?


I'm still not 100% sure that is the correct procedure. I did find this online last week:

*TivoHD Upgrade Instructions
Remove the outer case and existing drive using a torx screwdriver in the T10 size. If you don't have one of appropriate length, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4.

Download WinMFS here.

Shut down Windows and attach original TiVo drive. You can open your computer and attach it with a SATA cable, or attach it externally using a SATA->USB adapter like this.

Boot to Windows XP (SP2) or Vista, run WinMFS, and click 'Select Drive' to select the drive you attached.

In WinMFS, click the 'Backup' option. Save the file to your hard drive.

Shut down the computer and attach the new, larger drive. You can disconnect the original Tivo drive.

Turn your computer back on, run WinMFS, and click the 'Restore' option. Select the file you saved to your hard drive in step #5.

You're done. Install the new drive in the TivoHD.

Note that won't backup your existing recordings. The "Backup" option in WinMFS just backs up the Tivo software and your configuration, not the recordings.

If you want to backup your recordings too,then you need to choose the MFSCopy option in WinMFS which requires that the original Tivo drive and new drive be connected at the same time -- in which case you may want 2x SATA -> USB adapters.*

I'll probably just use the backup and restore option in WinMFS. Atleast that way I'll only have to hook up one drive at a time instead of both drives. As soon as I get my CableCards installed I'll perform the upgrade.

As for having two 1TB internal drives, I've read that there isnt enough room in the THD. If you wanted more room once you upgrade the internal drive to 1TB you can then connect a 1TB esata drive to your tivo. That is what I eventually plan on doing.


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## Christian Dad

Thanks.

Just thought of another question...

How big is the original drive in GB if it says it'll record 160 hours. The only reference I have to go on is my old Series 2, the 040 was 40GB, 40 hours worst quality SDTV.


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## brettatk

Christian Dad said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Just thought of another question...
> 
> How big is the original drive in GB if it says it'll record 160 hours. The only reference I have to go on is my old Series 2, the 040 was 40GB, 40 hours worst quality SDTV.


I believe the Tivo HD has a stock drive of 160GB. 160 hours of SD (probably worst quality), or 20 hours of HD.


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## spike2k5

brettatk said:


> Download WinMFS here.


That link is old.

Use the follow url:

http://www.mfslive.org/download.htm

Quick start:

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/quickstart.htm


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## brettatk

Well I couldnt wait until tomorrow so I went ahead with the upgrade:










I have to say this was a very easy upgrade, took about 20 minutes to do everything. Thanks for all the info everyone provided.


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## POLONASH

I just bought a new Tivo HD. I also bought a 500gb internal drive to upgrade it. I've not even opened the box for the Tivo yet. My question is-Do I still need to use a PC to image and restore the original Tivo hard drive or can I simply replace the drive and start my new service?
Thanks and I apologize if this subject has been covered before! 1st post!


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## Deanq4

You'll need a PC (or Mac i guess)

Has anyone tried the method of copying the stock tivoHD to an internal drive drive then switching the drive around, and copying the internal back to the new tivohd?

I only have a PATA connection and wanted to upgrade with out having to buy 2 usb>SATA connectors. I have heard that if I have a free drive (I have one I can clear up) and I copied the contents of the HD to that one I could save all the data (cable cards and season passes) then re-copy it to another external drive and have a new drive ready to go. 

I will likely store the recordings that I really want to keep on the PC using tivo to go, so the only purpose in doing this is to save the cable card and season pass settings. I was wondering, how much space is needed to copy the content of a tivoHD without any shows on it? We thinking 20-80 gig or more like 2?

thanks


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## HomeUser

Use MFSLive to make the backup without recordings then restore that backup to the new SATA drive. 

The backup without recordings is saved as a 200-300Meg file on your internal drive the backup still has your season passes, wish lists and setup info just not the recordings.


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## Deanq4

Thanks,

Sounds like a plan, I cleared out a 90 gig drive so I could just do it at the time I had the drive and not wait till at transfered them all. I think that will be enough, especially with no new shows on TV for a while.

Now I have to decide if I want to void the warranty on my TiVoHD or not...


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## tonestert

Deanq4 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Sounds like a plan, I cleared out a 90 gig drive so I could just do it at the time I had the drive and not wait till at transfered them all. I think that will be enough, especially with no new shows on TV for a while.
> 
> Now I have to decide if I want to void the warranty on my TiVoHD or not...


Will changing the internal hard drive void the Tivo warranty ?


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## Deanq4

tonestert said:


> Will changing the internal hard drive void the Tivo warranty ?


I would think so, but I guess since there is no "void if broken" seals then how would they know if you swapped the drive back


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## HomeUser

Deanq4 said:


> I would think so, but I guess since there is no "void if broken" seals then how would they know if you swapped the drive back


The TiVo connects to the TiVo service every day I sure there must be some sort of status information sent back.


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## Deanq4

Does it really? Why would it matter to them? If so they obviously don't care that people do it, or they would turn off the service if you upgraded.


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## Christian Dad

Deanq4 said:


> Does it really? Why would it matter to them? If so they obviously don't care that people do it, or they would turn off the service if you upgraded.


How much money TiVo makes from your subscription outweighs the amount they get for the hardware. My original S2 (an 040 from Fry's) was $50 almost 3 years ago. The service is a cash cow. "recurring revenue"


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## flatcurve

Deanq4 said:


> Does it really? Why would it matter to them? If so they obviously don't care that people do it, or they would turn off the service if you upgraded.


well it matters in the sense that the tivo can be damaged if you're careless. But obviously, if you're connecting to their service _after_ upgrading, you didn't break anything.


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## jonglee

Wanted to let everyone know that I successfully upgraded from the stock internal TivoHD HDD to a Seagate 750GB using WinMFS today on Vista (SP1). Purchased two USB/SATA adapters (Sabrent SATA-C35U Serial ATA to USB 2.0 Cable Converter Adapter with Power Supply) from Amazon) and it took about 4 hours to copy over all my shows, but everything works well. Initially it seemed a bit sluggish after the swap and the Seagate drive seemed a bit louder than the WD but quiet enough in the box.

In case it helps anyone, the steps I took were:

-opened the TivoHD (no seals broken signifying the box being opened to void warranty)
-plugged both drives in, then booted up my Vista laptop
-used WinMFS and did the MFScopy
-said 'yes' to the expand the drive dialog box after the 4 hours of copying

that's it!


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## murryamorris

jonglee said:


> -opened the TivoHD (no seals broken signifying the box being opened to void warranty)


You don't have to break a seal for Tivo to know the drive has been upgraded. They will see it upgraded when the Tivo communicates. I've never had any problems on any of S2's, S3, or THD I've upgraded though. The space is nice isn't it?


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## ThreeSoFar

murryamorris said:


> You don't have to break a seal for Tivo to know the drive has been upgraded. They will see it upgraded when the Tivo communicates. I've never had any problems on any of S2's, S3, or THD I've upgraded though. The space is nice isn't it?


They will (may) see it, but they will not care. They never have.


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## murryamorris

ThreeSoFar said:


> They will (may) see it, but they will not care. They never have.


I never said they would care. I just said they can tell even without breaking any seals (which the Tivo doesn't have anyway).


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## Christian Dad

Greetings all

TiVo HD upgraded to 1TB


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## opus472

Deanq4 said:


> Now I have to decide if I want to void the warranty on my TiVoHD or not...


Or buy the Tivo at Costco and then don't worry about the warranty.


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## opus472

Trying to follow the instructions at http://mfslive.org/setupcomputer.htm

If I'm using a laptop, I'd be connecting from the laptop's USB port to the SATA connection on the new drive? If that's the case, why couldn't I use the same connection from a desktop PC, without having to open it up and directly connect the drives?


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## opus472

Does WinMFS automatically detect connected drives? I started the program File > Select, the screen is blank. But I don't yet have a drive connected, just checking before I get started...


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## Christian Dad

opus472 said:


> Does WinMFS automatically detect connected drives? I started the program File > Select, the screen is blank. But I don't yet have a drive connected, just checking before I get started...


Yes... actually the instructions say that it will only show those drives that have not been mounted and do not have drive letters assigned. I think that's a great idea because it prevents you from screwing up your Windows drives.


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## dwit

Christian Dad said:


> Yes... actually the instructions say that it will only show those drives that have not been mounted and do not have drive letters assigned. I think that's a great idea because it prevents you from screwing up your Windows drives.


And actually, there is an option(simple check on on a box) to show and utilize unmounted drives(I think).


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## opus472

Trying to pin down the exact model numbers for recommended hard drives -

Hitachi - CinemaStar 7K1000, not the DeskStar?

Seagate DB35 - does it matter whether it's the 7200.2 or DB35.3 or DB35.4?


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## tivoupgrade

opus472 said:


> Trying to pin down the exact model numbers for recommended hard drives -
> 
> Hitachi - CinemaStar 7K1000, not the DeskStar?
> 
> Seagate DB35 - does it matter whether it's the 7200.2 or DB35.3 or DB35.4?


The Deskstar 7K1000 will work fine and we highly recommend it (and use it too). Nothing wrong with the CinemaStar, though; they are just harder to get and a bit more expensive. If you are going to use a Deskstar, though - ensure you use the Hitachi utilities to turn on acoustic management and set it to the quietest mode you can (it will be as quiet as the CinemaStar when you do that); that is what we do.

As for the Seagates, the .2, .3, and .4 are not going to make a difference, but the fact that they are DB35 will make a difference. The only measurable difference between the DB35 and the Barracuda, its desktop counterpart, is that its quieter (the Barracuda cannot be tuned by an end-user), and you'll find that a 750GB Deskstar is about the same, acoustically, as a 750GB DB35. There are no 1TB DB35 drives and there won't be until this summer.


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## thewebgal

Tho I am kind of a techie, I'm new at this TIVO hacking thing ... but this whole system is sweet!

I bought a TIVOHD last summer when they first came out - its nice, but the drive is far too small, so, I googled and found the WinMFSlive site!.
Read up and got a pair of the Sabrent SATA-C35U Serial ATA to USB adapters ($41 - TigerDirect via Amazon). Then I found a site that sold a Seagate ST3750840SCE 750gig 7200rpm Db35 Sata300 drive for around $212 shipped. 

I use a PowerMAC, but I did have an older PC that isn't online any more. I downloaded the WinMFS software with my mac, copied it to a thumb drive, then installed it to the PC (WinXP machine). I connected the old TIVOHD drive to one adapter, connected the new Seagate to another, and ran the WinMFS software. I had read through the directions on their website and it was all very simple - just took a while (I let it run overnight). When I got up this morning I saw everything went beautifully smooth.

I put the new drive back into the TVIOHD case, closed it up and reconnected the Coax (CATV) the component video lines and the optical cable to my AV receiver. When I went to the Settings screen on the TIVOHD, with the new 750gB drive it shows as 98 HD hours - a VERY nice upgrade from the original 20 hours available on the old 160gB drive.

Total upgrade costs were right at $250 ...($210 for the drive, $41 for the 2 USB adapters)


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## opus472

thewebgal said:


> got a pair of the Sabrent SATA-C35U Serial ATA to USB adapters. I connected the old TIVOHD drive to one adapter, connected the new Seagate to another, and ran the WinMFS software.


Is there a way to accomplish this using only one USB/SATA adapter?


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## husky55

opus472 said:


> Is there a way to accomplish this using only one USB/SATA adapter?


Yes, you can.

1. backup the original drive
2. then remove the original drive, connect the new drive and do a restore.


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## lew

opus472 said:


> Is there a way to accomplish this using only one USB/SATA adapter?


Yes, but you won't be able to save your recordings and won't be able to run your tivo with 2 drives (one internal and one external).

As a previous poster noted all you have to do is do a truncated backup swap your old drive with your new drive then do a restore (and expand).

Some of the USB/SATA adapters have problems with drives that are 750 or greater.


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## ontheway

Is it necessary to remove the mounting bracket the hard drive is attached to/sits on top of, or is there another way to get the HD out of the tivo?


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## tivoupgrade

ontheway said:


> Is it necessary to remove the mounting bracket the hard drive is attached to/sits on top of, or is there another way to get the HD out of the tivo?


That's how you have to do it. Take a look here, its almost the same as with a Series3.


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## ontheway

tivoupgrade said:


> That's how you have to do it. Take a look here, its almost the same as with a Series3.


Thanks for the quick reply, this is my first tivo so wanted to be careful. Seems the case is magnatized and I have a socket set that has a T10 bit but to get to the case, it is a bit loose and unshielded so off to Lowes to get the correct tool.


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## tivoupgrade

ontheway said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, this is my first tivo so wanted to be careful. Seems the case is magnatized and I have a socket set that has a T10 bit but to get to the case, it is a bit loose and unshielded so off to Lowes to get the correct tool.


You will be fine as long as you are patient and careful; it is not very difficult at all. Good luck!


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## opus472

ontheway said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, this is my first tivo so wanted to be careful. Seems the case is magnatized and I have a socket set that has a T10 bit but to get to the case, it is a bit loose and unshielded so off to Lowes to get the correct tool.


You'll need a T15 to remove the bracket. Somehow this is never mentioned anywhere...


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## tivoupgrade

Hmmm, I've never tried it with a T15, perhaps it will work. The T10 will work just fine., though.


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## opus472

tivoupgrade said:


> Hmmm, I've never tried it with a T15, perhaps it will work. The T10 will work just fine., though.


Not on mine - it just slips around, too small to get a grip.


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## tivoupgrade

That's interesting; I've never seen that. Will certainly keep my eyes open, though. 

When did you get your unit?


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## ontheway

The T10 worked on the bracket as well, msfcopy is running as we speak, hopefully it will finish before bedtime


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## opus472

tivoupgrade said:


> That's interesting; I've never seen that. Will certainly keep my eyes open, though. When did you get your unit?


About a month ago.


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## ontheway

My upgrade finished and all is right with the world. I installed an Hitachi Dekstar 1TB drive. Everything copied over and now I have 131 hours of HD capacity.


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## opus472

ontheway said:


> My upgrade finished and all is right with the world. I installed an Hitachi Dekstar 1TB drive. Everything copied over and now I have 131 hours of HD capacity.


Did you use a USB/SATA cable? Which one?


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## ontheway

opus472 said:


> Did you use a USB/SATA cable? Which one?


I picked up two of the following, one for the original tivo drive and one for the new drive, that way I didn't even have to open my computer up. These work for both Sata and IDE to USB.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16812189169


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## opus472

ontheway said:


> I picked up two of the following, one for the original tivo drive and one for the new drive, that way I didn't even have to open my computer up. These work for both Sata and IDE to USB.
> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16812189169


Cool. Just ordered two of these plus the Hitachi 1T drive @ Best Buy.


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## opus472

Ok, I received the two USB/SATA cables from newegg. Looks like I'm supposed to connect the wire from the back end of the power supply to the 4-wire thingie (this is the 4-pin to 15-pin adapter?)

Anyway, the two wires don't seem to wanna connect. Near as I can tell, the yellow wire is #1, which I'm matching up to #1 on the female socket attached to the power supply. But the 4 pins jiggle around when the wires move. And the pins are enclosed in a plastic housing, so it's impossible to tell when they're correctly lined up. Am I maybe missing something here?


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## opus472

opus472 said:


> Ok, I received the two USB/SATA cables from newegg. Looks like I'm supposed to connect the wire from the back end of the power supply to the 4-wire thingie (this is the 4-pin to 15-pin adapter?)
> Anyway, the two wires don't seem to wanna connect. Near as I can tell, the yellow wire is #1, which I'm matching up to #1 on the female socket attached to the power supply. But the 4 pins jiggle around when the wires move. And the pins are enclosed in a plastic housing, so it's impossible to tell when they're correctly lined up. Am I maybe missing something here?


Talked to the mfg (Link Depot) and took the cables to a local PC repair shop. They're both defective, hard to believe. Link Depot says they've never had this problem before...


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## ontheway

opus472 said:


> Talked to the mfg (Link Depot) and took the cables to a local PC repair shop. They're both defective, hard to believe. Link Depot says they've never had this problem before...


Sorry I didn't see your posts early. I had a little problem getting one of the power cables connected, the other one was easier but not smooth. I was eventually able to get the first one connected ok, seems they have a bad batch of cables.


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## opus472

ontheway said:


> Sorry I didn't see your posts early. I had a little problem getting one of the power cables connected, the other one was easier but not smooth. I was eventually able to get the first one connected ok, seems they have a bad batch of cables.


Thanks for the info. Newegg is overnighting replacements, sure hope the new ones work better!

Incidentally, the mfg name (Link Depot) appears nowhere on the boxes or documentation, just says Made in China. The only mention of Link Depot is on Newegg's product page.


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## opus472

I purchased (from Best Buy) a 3.5" Hitachi Deskstar 1T internal drive. But nowhere does it say model 7K1000, so I'm a bit concerned. Is it supposed to have that model # somewhere?


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