# New House being built- CAT6 or Coax?



## Johnwashere (Sep 17, 2005)

This may have been asked but I couldnt find a recent topic-

My parents are building a new house and they about to have all the wiring done soon. I want them to have an easy to use setup so I am planing on getting them a 3TB Bolt Vox and 7 minis - They are having 8 total TVs in the house. The cabling guy recommend running CAT6 and not coax- he says its more future proof, which I kind of agree. I was thinking about running coax to every TV as well in case for some reason they dont go with tivo- but I doubt that will be the case... They currently have Time Warner Spectrum boxes and they just arent the greatest... 
Tivo seems to be a good setup for them since it has Netflix, amazon, hulu built into it. They dont want to have to use a roku or smart tv functions to access apps- too confusing for them. Hopefully tivo will be around for awhile since Im planing on investing in a small fortune with all these tivo boxes...


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

It's definitely been asked.

If I were wiring it, I'd be recommending 2 Cat 6 and 2 Coax at a minimum, to each known TV location. Major areas, like the Theater Room or Family Room, I'd run at least 2 more Cat 6's than the currently known number of devices, like Roku, AppleTV's, etc. Coax rocks, because you can easily add a MoCA device later if necessary.

A Matrix for the Devices would be an easy way to get the devices to 'follow' you from Rom-to-Room and you probably wouldn't need 8 TiVo devices.

-KP


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Both.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

kpeters59 said:


> If I were wiring it, .. and 2 Coax at a minimum,


Two Coax cables to each room??? I definitely disagree with this reco. One for legacy TV should be more than adequate.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

ah30k said:


> Two Coax cables to each room??? I definitely disagree with this reco. One for legacy TV should be more than adequate.


Welcome to 1981...

-KP


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

1 Coax 2 Cat 6.

And if you really want to future-proof things you can run 1.5" conduit to each TV location. Don't forget a pull string inside each conduit.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

If you want to do it right, put at least one coax and one ethernet outlet on each wall of every room (probably can do just one each to the kitchen, bathrooms and laundry room). Home run each to a central location. That way, you can patch in whichever runs are active with a splitter for coax and a switch for ethernet, each with the appropriate number of ports. Use RG-6 quad shield coax and CAT 6 UTP.


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## Johnwashere (Sep 17, 2005)

kpeters59 said:


> A Matrix for the Devices would be an easy way to get the devices to 'follow' you from Rom-to-Room and you probably wouldn't need 8 TiVo devices.
> 
> -KP


The cabling guy told a video matrix system would be at $4,000-$10,000 - probably closer to $10k for the amount of TVs they have. Plus it just seems like controlling it might be a little confusing for my parents in their 60's... That price seemed a bit excessive and a little confusing, so I decided against it

They get 12 free cable with the new house and each cable run after that cost $110. With the 7.1 speaker runs in the basement , speaker runs in family room, and a various other drops they are already a quote of $1500 for the "free runs". They currently have just 1 Cat6 to each room. Adding an additional cat6 and coax is will defiantly add up.


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## gthassell (Apr 22, 2003)

I would actually suggest that you double the number of Cat6 cables. If you think you may need 2, you'll probably at some point in time want 4. Plus, you can use one of them for a phone line (if your parents use land lines). One trick I've seen and used (depending on the sturdiness of the cabling) is when pulling the cable - especially if drywall isn't up yet - is to pull (using a separate wire) from the "center" of the source cat6, so that with one pull, you get two cables, by cuttting the "center" into two once you have reached the final location. Any I wholeheartedly agree with runnng a chase. I also suggest setting up good ethernet patch panels and "junction boxes" in a basement if you have one, and label EVERYTHING. Lastly, I suggest checking out Monoprice.com for some of the best prices on both raw cabling as well as pre-done cables which you will need for linking the patch panel work into routers, etc.


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## gigaquad (Oct 25, 2004)

Like others said I think you'll be more than fine with 1 coax and 2 Cat 6 to each main room. If you want to get more involved you can run 1 cat 6 to the closets and bathrooms, but that's probably overkill. You can add them later by hand if you inherit the house and decide that you _really, truly,_ can't miss Netflix while pooping.

As far as needing more than 2 Cat 6 in a room after the build is completed, you can always add a small switch if necessary in the room. They're so tiny now that they're not a big deal.

When building a house the big question is how many *electrical outlets* you'll need. You can run ethernet yourself. Most DIY guys can't run electrical. (I said most, so calm down you die hard DIY'ers!  )


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Good:1x coax, 1x Cat.6
Better: 1x coax, 2x Cat.6
Best:2x coax, 2x Cat.6


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

As a lurker on this issue (1985 slab house with a cathedral ceiling--cable retrofitting is not going to happen), what is a "ballpark figure" for the cost of putting in coax and ethernet wiring when building a house? I know that there are many variables, but let's say a mid-size house with a moderate amount of cabling (e.g. no closets). Just curious as to the magnitude of this--are we talking 4 figures, 5 figures, ?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ah30k said:


> Two Coax cables to each room??? I definitely disagree with this reco. One for legacy TV should be more than adequate.


I could see doing 2 coax runs to the main DVR and/or modem locations, for future-proofing against a switch to OTA antenna for TV or DOCSIS 3.1 conflicts with MoCA, but 2 coax runs to each location may be overkill. 2+ Cat6 may be worthwhile to each location to minimize the need for network switches or for alternate uses of Cat6 beyond Ethernet networking. (see "matrix" suggestion; aside from saving on TiVo equipment costs, it can be really nice to have a single device broadcasting to any number of TVs in the home)


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

Definitely two COAX, and one CAT6 should be fine, as you can just add a switch to give you more ports. With the COAX, you might want to have OTA and Cable/Satellite. It's not easy to get OTA and Sat on the same piece of COAX.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

ke3ju said:


> Definitely two COAX, and one CAT6 should be fine, as you can just add a switch to give you more ports. With the COAX, you might want to have OTA and Cable/Satellite. It's not easy to get OTA and Sat on the same piece of COAX.


This is what is in my house (built in the early 2000's). We are the 3rd or 4th owners but what I don't understand is why they split the wires in each CAT6 half each to two separate plugs in the same wall plate? To get anything to work I need to remake the wall plate connection and abandon a jack.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Minimum of two coax and two Cat6 to each room. But Ideally I would run four Cat6 and two Coax. But if it were my place I would be doing two coax and four Cat6.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dwatt said:


> This is what is in my house (built in the early 2000's). We are the 3rd or 4th owners but what I don't understand is why they split the wires in each CAT6 half each to two separate plugs in the same wall plate? To get anything to work I need to remake the wall plate connection and abandon a jack.


That will run perfectly fine if wired properly. But limit you to only a 100Mb/s connection. They did it to save money by not running twice as much cable. Since your average person wouldn't notice it.

We have done this at work in the past. But only for a temporary second connection. Until a new cable could be added to the location.


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## gthassell (Apr 22, 2003)

Another thing to consider is whether or not you will want / need more than just your "standard" network in any given room. With HDMI over ethernet (which I don't believe can use a standard switch), and the potential desire to have a separate IoT / Device network from your "computer" network, having 2-4 CAT6 (or greater) runs makes a lot of sense. And while I recognize there is indeed extra cost, the other question is how much would it cost to have to retrofit / correct it. (this should also include the "cost" (loss of utility) of not doing it at all, and having to live without something they would want / enjoy.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I would build the house so every wall was at least 2 feet "thick" and had an interior passageway you can get to and run wiring or fiber or plumbing or duct or whatever else comes up, as needed, in the future. Then I'd look at ceiling and flooring requirements for wiring.

Almost every time I have drywall down for some project, I'm running huge amounts of cabling, almost always home-running it to someplace appropriate. In my office-room-comverted-to-theater I had to add Dolby Atmos speaker wiring, subwoofer wiring, wiring for controlling projector screens, wiring for HDMI to ceiling locations, power in odd places, not just along the lower few feet of walls, even ended up routing some plumbing and up to other floors near the exterior to get me water spigots on every balcony. I ducted a closet to provide an exhaust path for servers, including the addition of a fan to suck the hot air out of it. I've usually put at least 4 drops of network cabling in locations, where there's any chance of future higher-bandwidth needs, like a server location where I might aggregate multiple connections to increase bandwidth. I also added network wiring through the space to the ceiling of the patio outside and to an external wall for cameras and other devices.

Never underestimate your future needs.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

ke3ju said:


> It's not easy to get OTA and Sat on the same piece of COAX.


I disagree, diplexers do that quite easily, since they were specifically designed for that purpose. Perhaps you meant OTA+catv or some other combination?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

snerd said:


> I disagree, diplexers do that quite easily, since they were specifically designed for that purpose.


Is this still the case, with modern DISH and DirecTV whole home setups that use MoCA? Don't the Mid-RF MoCA frequencies overlap with OTA?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

You will regret not having enough cable runs a lot more than you will regret spending a little more money than absolutely necessary during construction. The cost is a minimal component of the overall cost of the house.

We built a 2-story with basement in 1999. I paid the electrician a grand total of $75 extra (!!) to install five 1" plastic pipes running from the basement straight up inside the walls to junction boxes, 2 to the 2nd story and 3 to the first floor. Then I ran Cat5 from router/switch in basement and installed sockets in the junction boxes. My only regret is not having more pipes installed. It's never been necessary to "pull" the cat5 through these straight vertical conduits.


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## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

You can buy a cable that has two coax's and a cat 5 under one sheath.

https://www.amazon.com/CAT6-QUADSHIELD-CABLED-feet-Made/dp/B0042L3CTY


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

When you drill through a coax or some critter dines on it, you will kick yourself for now running a couple dollars worth of extra rg6.


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## AntiPC (Jul 22, 2005)

I went through this process in 2016. I wound up with a coax and Cat6 cable to every room. I also had them put 8 Cat6 drops to points outside and garage for POE security cameras. Additionally, they ran speaker wires for 5.1 in the living room and family room.

All the network and coax was home run wired to a closet, and a Cat6 and coax were run to the side of the house for provider access. The guy was supposed to run a coax to the attic for an OTA antenna, but didn't. I repurposed the last bedroom's coax for the attic antenna, but left a fished stub in case I change my mind.

The only coax I use is the feed from TWC, the living room (TWC), family room (OTA), and the attic antenna run. The living room has a Bolt, and the family room has a Roamio OTA. The bedrooms have minis.

The only thing I'd like to change is the solid door on the network closet; it needs better ventilation.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Is this still the case, with modern DISH and DirecTV whole home setups that use MoCA? Don't the Mid-RF MoCA frequencies overlap with OTA?


Snarky answer: yes, it is still true that diplexers can join/separate OTA and SAT frequencies on/from the same coax. 

Good point though, I have no direct experience with DISH/DirecTV other than playing with a couple of DECA adapters, which do use frequencies that clash with OTA/CATV. Clearly, MoCA and Sat clash as well (even more so with upcoming MoCA 2.5), so there are certainly many cases for which having two coax runs makes life simpler.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

So we just moved into our new house a few months ago. It was built new in 2006. We bought it from the architect and builder -- a young guy in his late 30's or so. It's a really great house. But he only ran *one* COAX cable to pretty much every room -- and DIDN'T run ANY CAT6 in the entire house (except for one room -- more on that later). Luckily, I can use MOCA for it with two Tivo's and one Tivo Mini to get TV in the rooms we need, as well as MOCA->Ethernet to the rooms we need wired internet access (two home offices). We can't get Verizon FIOS here, so I had to create my own MOCA network with one MOCA bridge and four re-purposed FIOS routers acting as MOCA bridges. But it would have been really nice to have CAT6 runs to the rooms where we need it most instead of COAX+MOCA bridges.

I asked him 'why no CAT6?' and he response was basically 'we just used wifi throughout the house for internet access'. Ugh. He also said the library next door 'lights up the whole house with their wifi' (even though you actually need a passcode to get on their wifi). I also need dedicated internet access (for VPN), not some random bandwidth from the library! 

The one room he did run some CAT6 was the media room in the basement. And it was only between the back wall junction box, and the media closet on the side of that same room (basically an "L" run of 3 or 4 CAT6 cables.) And for half of those, he clipped off the RJ45 ends and used the bare wires for RF remote control extenders (he had a few of these in the different basement rooms using CAT6). But no networking AT ALL. Oh, yeah, except he did run one CAT6 cable from the utility/power room to the outside utility box where the cable and power enter the house. Neither end of that cable has an RJ45 on it, either. I have no idea what he thought that would be used for-- there's just this bare Ethernet cable hanging outside the house. 

You'd figure building a new house in 2006, you'd run at least one CAT6+COAX to every room. Nope. 

Luckily, it's not much of a hindrance for our needs.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Hank said:


> You'd figure building a new house in 2006, you'd run at least one CAT6+COAX to every room. Nope.


Our house was built in 2005 and no Ethernet cabling either. Just coax to every room.

Scott


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> Our house was built in 2005 and no Ethernet cabling either. Just coax to every room.
> 
> Scott


How easy it is to forget the amazing pace of technology! 2005 or 2006 was ancient history --- no iPhone, no digital cable enabled TiVo's, etc.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

dlfl said:


> How easy it is to forget the amazing pace of technology! 2005 or 2006 was ancient history --- no iPhone, no digital cable enabled TiVo's, etc.


My boss from the 90's built a new house in 1994 and had home-run CAT5 run to every room terminating in a basement network room.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

I think it has more to do with the builder than anything else. A friend of mine built a new house 5 years ago and this was no starter house. Every single run was an option at $150 EACH (I think I am in the wrong business...)


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

SNJpage1 said:


> You can buy a cable that has two coax's and a cat 5 under one sheath.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CAT6-QUADSHIELD-CABLED-feet-Made/dp/B0042L3CTY


Sheath!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

SNJpage1 said:


> You can buy a cable that has two coax's and a cat 5 under one sheath.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CAT6-QUADSHIELD-CABLED-feet-Made/dp/B0042L3CTY


Thats what I have in addition to a patch panel in the garage. This allowed me to have a backhaul mesh network, put my receiver and various boxes in my LR closet and my BR closet. I have also switched from Dish to DTV to Comcast, and ISDN, DSL to Comcast over the years and for periods of time I had both. Of course in my case I was able to crawl under my house.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

The bare minimum today is 2x RG6 and 2x CAT-6. It's actually gotten simpler, as in the late '90s, the bare minimum was 2x RG6 and 3x CAT-5 with 1 terminated for phone lines. Go figure. 2x RG-6 is very important because you might want DBS and OTA or DBS and cable or OTA and cable, and with any combo, you need 2 RG-6 cables. With structures wiring and 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6, you can have DBS, OTA, and cable internet, with the OTA TiVo in a different room from the cable modem connected via Ethernet to Minis, and DBS in every room, and not run out of cabling.

Don't skimp on the wiring, or the construction methods themselves. Insulation should be at least double code at a bare minimum, preferably triple code especially in a northern climate, a focus more on air sealing in a southern climate, properly sized HVAC equipment that is the highest efficiency available is another place not to skimp. If budget is a concern, skimp on the cabinets and counters and stuff that doesn't matter as much. Unfortunately, most builders do the opposite, they throw up cheap, crappy houses with substandard wiring, substandard insulation, substandard HVAC equipment and generally lousy construction, but spend a bunch on flashy stuff like granite countertops and fancy cabinets.

If I were retrofitting a house today, I'm not sure I'd actually run any wiring anywhere, due to the advancements in wireless, which seems to be the way everything is going, but when building new, there is no excuse for not doing it right. For existing houses, I think the direction everything is going in is wireless. You can do voice, data, and phone today with a single coax cable to a modem and router, and wireless from there to Ooma for phone and a streaming TV service. However, I'd much rather add a bunch of extra wiring, use it for a few years, and then not need most of it then need wiring that I don't have.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Right now, I am doing some renovations. Since I will be painting and patching anyway, I will run two RG6 and two Cat6 cables from the attic to the basement. I will also run two of each from a wall where I plan to hang a television and two of each from the closet on the other side of the wall. And I will have hdmi connects between the closet and the wall with the TV. I will put a TiVo and a Genie in that closet to support the TV on the other side of the wall. The thing is, you cannot really future proof. Install a lot of everything because running cable is cheap until the walls are up.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

wizwor said:


> Right now, I am doing some renovations. Since I will be painting and patching anyway, I will run two RG6 and two Cat6 cables from the attic to the basement. I will also run two of each from a wall where I plan to hang a television and two of each from the closet on the other side of the wall. And I will have hdmi connects between the closet and the wall with the TV. I will put a TiVo and a Genie in that closet to support the TV on the other side of the wall. The thing is, you cannot really future proof. Install a lot of everything because running cable is cheap until the walls are up.


HDMI isn't a bad idea, but it's not future proof at all, so I'd run at least a pair of CAT-6 along with it, or conduit for pull-through later. CAT cable is relatively future proof, the only thing today that can't run on CAT-5 cable from the 1990's is the higher-end HDBaseT stuff, any phone, Ethernet, etc, is just fine on CAT-5 including gigabit (technically 5e, but there really isn't much difference between the two).


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Speaking of HDMI... when we moved into this house, the previous occupants (renters) had a bad break-up, and apparently the boyfriend/husband left in a rage, and (I am not making this up), instead of disconnecting the TV from the wall mount, he CUT all the wires clean through, and broke the HDMI cable end (see photos). These cables are run inside the walls to the media closet about 12 feet away, and there are two angled bends in the wall. I asked the guy who installed it if it's possible to snake a new cable through, and he didn't think so without taking down drywall.

The RBG cables I can fix myself... but is there any way to fix the HDMI cable connector?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

No.

Which is why the message above yours further reiterates why you run _more_ than enough wire.

-KP


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Unless they are stapled to the studs in the wall you may be able to use the existing ones as fish tape and pull the new ones though.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Both.


Absolutely, if I was building a new house I'd want both, cost of the cables not that much, it's installation after the house is built that would cost a lot. If you have possible OTA/antenna available too why not Ethernet and two coax setups, one for cable/satellite and one for OTA? Coax cable is REALLY cheap..........................


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Oh, what is the difference with CAT5E, CAT6 and CAT 7? I heard all pretty much the same BUT I thought there would never be speeds available more than gigabit could handle. I think there is now?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> Absolutely, if I was building a new house I'd want both, cost of the cables not that much, it's installation after the house is built that would cost a lot. If you have possible OTA/antenna available too why not Ethernet and two coax setups, one for cable/satellite and one for OTA? Coax cable is REALLY cheap..........................


Even during remodels!

A few years ago we tore out our masonry fireplace and installed a gas fireplace. In the process I installed conduit like below that runs to a closet nearby where my receiver/ATV/BluRay/Tivo sit. I had to replace the Celerity HDMI cable and it made it really easy.


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

snerd said:


> I disagree, diplexers do that quite easily, since they were specifically designed for that purpose. Perhaps you meant OTA+catv or some other combination?


I could never get it to work with DirecTV after SWM was implemented.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tommage1 said:


> Oh, what is the difference with CAT5E, CAT6 and CAT 7? I heard all pretty much the same BUT I thought there would never be speeds available more than gigabit could handle. I think there is now?


Google says, Demystifying Ethernet Types - Cat5e, Cat 6, and Cat7
For most homes in the next 10 yrs or so, there is little practical benefit for going beyond Cat5e, or maybe Cat6 and even Cat6 is not really necessary, but given the small price difference, I would consider it. 
Most folks could actually get by with a 10/100 backbone quite happily for most common home needs, but it's nice to have a 10/100/1000 for many purposes or just for the heck of it and that only really needs Cat5e and even some standard Cat5 can actually do that also...depending on how and when it was manufactured. 
Anything above Cat6 for home use is kind of overkill and unnecessary or for tech types who just want to play around.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

dwatt said:


> Unless they are stapled to the studs in the wall you may be able to use the existing ones as fish tape and pull the new ones though.


They do appear to be stapled or mounted along the way. Pulling the cables on either end didn't yield any give.


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## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

Hank said:


> The RBG cables I can fix myself... but is there any way to fix the HDMI cable connector?


You could try splicing a new cable to the end of the cut off one. I don't think the splice would cause a problem in the signal.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Get some detachable hdmi fiber cables like 
HDMI Cables at Crutchfield.com you can remove the connectors and put on future versions. They are about as future proof as I can imagine. They are also pretty strong and can be pulled through if the original cables are not stapled which is a no no anyways.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

SNJpage1 said:


> You could try splicing a new cable to the end of the cut off one. I don't think the splice would cause a problem in the signal.


Seriously? All digital signals like HDMI I think would be highly susceptible to splicing two ends together.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Hank said:


> Seriously? All digital signals like HDMI I think would be highly susceptible to splicing two ends together.


What you wrote was that it would work easily; I think you meant the opposite.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

ej42137 said:


> What you wrote was that it would work easily; I think you meant the opposite.


Nope, I think it's correct usage of "susceptible":

: easily affected, influenced, or harmed by something
: capable of being affected by a specified action or process


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Hank said:


> Nope, I think it's correct usage of "susceptible":
> 
> : easily affected, influenced, or harmed by something
> : capable of being affected by a specified action or process


Hank, you seem like a nice guy. I tell you with all love, you are using the word incorrectly. What you wrote is the opposite of what you meant to say.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

First, I think the usage is correct. Even before I made the original post, I actually looked up the word just to be sure, and felt the definition of "_easily affected, influenced, or harmed by something_" fit perfectly so I used it.
Second, even if it didn't, I think everyone will understand the usage in context.
Third, if I added the implied "... to interference from..." would that make you happy?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

No. What you wrote was that HDMI is susceptible to splicing, in other words that HDMI can be easily spliced. That is the exact opposite of what you meant. It was clear what you meant only because what you actually said was absurd, not because the meaning was clear or implied by what you wrote. The definition you cite is absolutely correct, but you have assumed an incorrect relationship of the property of susceptibility with the negative suggestion of harm that it often conveys. The key word in the definition is "easily": easily affected, or easily influenced, or easily harmed. I do not think you meant to say that HDMI is easily spliced, but that is what you said.

Why don't you Google "define susceptible" and look at the examples of how it is used.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> As a lurker on this issue (1985 slab house with a cathedral ceiling--cable retrofitting is not going to happen), what is a "ballpark figure" for the cost of putting in coax and ethernet wiring when building a house? I know that there are many variables, but let's say a mid-size house with a moderate amount of cabling (e.g. no closets). Just curious as to the magnitude of this--are we talking 4 figures, 5 figures, ?


"My" cost is the capital costs of the cabling, plus my time.

New construction? That's when it takes a couple of hours to do.

It took me a weekend to pull six home runs of cat5e, cat3, and RG-6 to each bedroom in my house during a refit when the pipe chase was open... (Yes, cat3 for POTS because I had a spool of it gratis.)


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

gigaquad said:


> When building a house the big question is how many *electrical outlets* you'll need. You can run ethernet yourself. Most DIY guys can't run electrical. (I said most, so calm down you die hard DIY'ers!  )


It's not about running electrical.... It's about getting a permit and having it inspected. In some jurisdictions, a DIY'er cannot run eletrical cable, it must be performed by a licensed contractor / electrician.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

ej42137 said:


> Why don't you Google "define susceptible" and look at the examples of how it is used.


Like I already said, I did that before posting. I felt the word was appropriate.


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

longrider said:


> I think it has more to do with the builder than anything else. A friend of mine built a new house 5 years ago and this was no starter house. Every single run was an option at $150 EACH (I think I am in the wrong business...)


To clarify -- a run of 2xRG-6 and 2xCAT-5 would be $600, regardless of distance? I think that looks like a contractor signaling that they're really not interested in doing the work. Then again, I get a nosebleed looking at some of the "option" costs in other areas of new construction...


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

fcfc2 said:


> Good:1x coax, 1x Cat.6
> Better: 1x coax, 2x Cat.6
> Best:2x coax, 2x Cat.6


Even "bester": 2xRG-6 and 2xCAT5 or CAT6 inside conduit (as @DigitalDawn suggested) or smurf tube. 

I had a local network contractor retrofit my existing house with double coax and CAT5 runs to each room, 10 connections in all. Pushing conduit or smurf tube would have been impossible without major structural work, so we ended up using a combination of separate cables to some rooms and the combo cable in others. Fortunately, we were able to use the HVAC chase for some of the cables going from the basement to the second floor.

Total cost was around $4.5k, including the cable I already had on hand and the drywall work required, but not including the cost of painting that I was going to do anyway.

(edit: included extra project description)


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> For most homes in the next 10 yrs or so, there is little practical benefit for going beyond Cat5e, or maybe Cat6 and even Cat6 is not really necessary, but given the small price difference, I would consider it.


HDBaseT can require CAT-6, depending on the configuration. Just for Ethernet, CAT-5e is as much as anyone is going to need in the forseeable future. If I were doing pure retrofit where it wouldn't be any more work to retrofit the cable again, I'd probably do CAT-5e, if I were doing new construction in-wall, I'd think about doing CAT-6, or I'd do CAT-5e and RG-6 in wall with smurf tube to every location so that I could easily add CAT-6 later. Best would be 2x CAT-6, 2x RG-6 AND smurf tube.

I don't foresee the need for NBase-T in homes, but then again, we were once saying that no one ever needed more than 640kb of RAM, so I'll just say there is no use for it in the next five years.



pj1983 said:


> Total cost was around $4.5k, including the cable I already had on hand and the drywall work required, but not including the cost of painting that I was going to do anyway.


That's not bad for the work done, OTOH, at this point, I'm not sure I'd do a retrofit like that. With new construction, it's a total no-brainer, as cable is cheap. Maybe for a larger house where you can't run everything off of one router, and backhaul for mesh starts to become important, and there are more TVs and such, it would be nice to centralize everything.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

Bigg said:


> I don't foresee the need for NBase-T in homes, but then again, we were once saying that no one ever needed more than 640kb of RAM, so I'll just say there is no use for it in the next five years.


Hey.... That 80 MB hard drive on my 386 was plenty big....


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

Our house was built in 2005 and they only ran two ethernet runs both to locations we didn't need (2nd floor master bedroom and kitchen?). Oddly enough while there are only 2 plugs in the house there are 8 Ethernet drops in the utility room and I have no idea where the other 6 cables are and even using a probe could only find one of the drops in the 2nd floor wall. The ceiling is fire blocked so I can't see past the point of where the ethernet cables go up the hole. Problem is a lot of devices need an Ethernet cable and don't support WiFi. So we invested in this WiFi Bridge. Now any device that needed an Ethernet port can get one in addition they also extend the WiFi network (I set up different SSIDs so I know which signal is which device) and I manage all the devices on static IP so I can always go back to each device when I have to admin. Our cable speed is 200/20 and you can run a speed test from any of the WiFi Bridges and they see at least 175/21 and that is with 2 Nest cams and 3 Amazon cams and 4 Ring cameras running plus our work computers connected to VPN. Our Bolt in the living room and Mini in the basement combination just works and I didn't have to fix any drywall and repaint. While it would be nice we just can't afford to pull wire throughout the house (behind the drywall is solid foam). And the WiFi Bridge is able to utilize both 5 Ghz radios as backhaul to the Netgear X8 routers (one in the basement that attaches to the cable modem and the other in the 2nd floor master bedroom).


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Our house was built in 1969, so no coax or ethernet wire was installed...it only had phone lines installed in the kitchen (wall phone) and the master bedroom. We snaked coax and UTP through the plumbing riser, from attic to basement, drilled up through the floor for jacks on the first floor, and dropoped cable down through the walls upstairs by drilling down into the headers. We now have 2 RG-6 runs to every room (only one in use these days) and one CAT-5. 

I can second the wisdom of installing 2 coax per room...I've had 2 runs go bad over the years. We finished the basement a few years ago, and put up a sheet-rock ceiling everywhere except the "computer room" (which houses two network printers, two NAS, our Plex server, Vonage adapter and gateway router) which is at the base of the plumbing riser, where I installed a suspended ceiling for ease of future access.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

pj1983 said:


> To clarify -- a run of 2xRG-6 and 2xCAT-5 would be $600, regardless of distance? I think that looks like a contractor signaling that they're really not interested in doing the work. Then again, I get a nosebleed looking at some of the "option" costs in other areas of new construction...


No, that price was for a single run of RG6. As that was all he did I dont know what the charges would have been for a proper 4 cable run. However each run was $150


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

An example of my use for the 2 RG6/cat5e cables was for moving a subwoofer. I used to have a subwoofer in the cabinet below the TV and it would vibrate stuff just too much. I moved back across the room by the sofa. So what I did was hook it up to one of the coax cables behind the sofa. In my patch panel I then connected the sofa jack to the receiver jack location and then to the receiver. I had a coax to phono plug adapter on each end.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Bigg said:


> HDMI isn't a bad idea, but it's not future proof at all, so I'd run at least a pair of CAT-6 along with it, or conduit for pull-through later. CAT cable is relatively future proof, the only thing today that can't run on CAT-5 cable from the 1990's is the higher-end HDBaseT stuff, any phone, Ethernet, etc, is just fine on CAT-5 including gigabit (technically 5e, but there really isn't much difference between the two).


Right. I agree there is no such thing as future proof. I also like to leave strings with my cables to pull the future through. That is what really matters is building something that can be easily upgraded in the future. I pulled my cat5 through with coax (thinwire ethernet).


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> We finished the basement a few years ago, and put up a sheet-rock ceiling everywhere except the "computer room" (which houses two network printers, two NAS, our Plex server, Vonage adapter and gateway router) which is at the base of the plumbing riser, where I installed a suspended ceiling for ease of future access.


Why on earth did you do that? Basements should always have drop ceilings in for mechanical and electrical access!!



wizwor said:


> Right. I agree there is no such thing as future proof. I also like to leave strings with my cables to pull the future through. That is what really matters is building something that can be easily upgraded in the future. I pulled my cat5 through with coax (thinwire ethernet).


CAT-6 is as close as you get to future proof, since we've been using CAT cable for a very, very long time. RG-6 is relatively unique in what it can do, although I think within a few years, most houses won't use coax except for the cable modem/gateway, everything else will be wireless/IP.

Since nothing is truly future proof, the conduits are the best idea.

Since a lot of houses have little to no data wiring, I think most stuff will just end up being wireless, unfortunately. As much as I love having Ethernet everywhere, very few homes will ever have it in-wall.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dstoffa said:


> Hey.... That 80 MB hard drive on my 386 was plenty big....


Ha, yeah, was buying a 486. Came with 40MB hard drive. They asked if I wanted an 80, I said no, 40 more than enough. Back in those days 1MB RAM was like $100.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

tommage1 said:


> Ha, yeah, was buying a 486. Came with 40MB hard drive. They asked if I wanted an 80, I said no, 40 more than enough. Back in those days 1MB RAM was like $100.


I hope you at least opted for an optical drive. I recall that installing Office from 35 floppies was like root canal.

I remember splurging for the 80 MB hard disk, the extra MB of RAM (to make it 2 MB). I eventually added the math co-processor. It had both 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" FD drives. It only had a VGA display (not SVGA). The machine got me through college and grad school. It had to be retired once support for DOS applications (to this day WP for DOS blows Word away) ceased. It got me through college and grad school. It couldn't be future proofed, but it did its job.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

dstoffa said:


> I hope you at least opted for an optical drive. I recall that installing Office from 35 floppies was like root canal.
> 
> I remember splurging for the 80 MB hard disk, the extra MB of RAM (to make it 2 MB). I eventually added the math co-processor. It had both 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" FD drives. It only had a VGA display (not SVGA). The machine got me through college and grad school. It had to be retired once support for DOS applications (to this day WP for DOS blows Word away) ceased. It got me through college and grad school. It couldn't be future proofed, but it did its job.


I still have the 486, has both floppy drives, a CD read only drive and Win 95. I stuck with DOS as long as I could. Tried Win 3.1 off 5.25 floppys, never used it much. Then Win 95 off 3.5s (quite a few of them if I remember correctly). Win 95 ok but didn't really like Win until 98SE (yeah, I had CD for that one). The days of expanded/extended memory in DOS, trying to find mini drivers to make boot disks for certain games, wonder if I could still do it. Gaming was certainly better on my C128.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

tommage1 said:


> I still have the 486, has both floppy drives, a CD read only drive and Win 95. I stuck with DOS as long as I could. Tried Win 3.1 off 5.25 floppys, never used it much. Then Win 95 off 3.5s (quite a few of them if I remember correctly). Win 95 ok but didn't really like Win until 98SE (yeah, I had CD for that one). The days of expanded/extended memory in DOS, trying to find mini drivers to make boot disks for certain games, wonder if I could still do it. Gaming was certainly better on my C128.


I wish I still had my old C64... I still have 1541 floppies full of games for it.

That being written, my 386 is long gone. I still have the P1-100 that replaced it. That had an optical CD. I never ran Win9x on it. It, too, was a DOS machine until it's last day. I was given a P2-400 MHz machine that ran 98se, which I could boot back to Dos 6.22 if needed for my old games. I actually didn't want to bother with a boot manager, so I simply installed two hard drives. The first bootable HD was Win98se (FAT32). The second HD had FAT16 partitions on it. So I could see everything in Win98, but if I wanted to boot in true DOS, I'd use a floppy, and it wouldn't see the FAT32 disk, and it would boot from the second HD into DOS. I just had to make sure I transferred COMMAND to the second hard drive (via the autoexec.bat on the floppy) so that it wouldn't always try to access the floppy for system calls....


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Johnwashere said:


> This may have been asked but I couldnt find a recent topic-
> 
> My parents are building a new house and they about to have all the wiring done soon. I want them to have an easy to use setup so I am planing on getting them a 3TB Bolt Vox and 7 minis - They are having 8 total TVs in the house. The cabling guy recommend running CAT6 and not coax- he says its more future proof, which I kind of agree. I was thinking about running coax to every TV as well in case for some reason they dont go with tivo- but I doubt that will be the case... They currently have Time Warner Spectrum boxes and they just arent the greatest...
> Tivo seems to be a good setup for them since it has Netflix, amazon, hulu built into it. They dont want to have to use a roku or smart tv functions to access apps- too confusing for them. Hopefully tivo will be around for awhile since Im planing on investing in a small fortune with all these tivo boxes...


the current tivo use coax not CAT6


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## man cave (Nov 15, 2014)

Im running fiber optic with HDMI ends. It's future proof and has the best picture Quality.


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## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

I would run CAT6A (not CAT6). It's more future-proof, and should be able to handle any future video distribution system you might want to do (HDBase-T, 10Gb Ethernet, HDMI 2.x). You'll need to make sure that everything from the jacks to the cable is rated CAT6A though.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lucidrenegade said:


> I would run CAT6A (not CAT6). It's more future-proof, and should be able to handle any future video distribution system you might want to do (HDBase-T, 10Gb Ethernet, HDMI 2.x). You'll need to make sure that everything from the jacks to the cable is rated CAT6A though.


There's no use for it now. That's why smurf tube is a good addition to permanently installed RG-6 and CAT-6 that's stapled to the studs.


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

I was thinking about this project, found this thread.

1) to reduce bugs and drafts / heat loss would enclosed metal conduit help?

The kitchen eating area jack be coming up from a "John Deer room" which isn't well sealed from outside (need to seal this better before project starts). Also that area is not really heated. 

For some weird reason, I want to run metal conduit. I likely woupd have to destroy and fix more wall.

I don't think the current electrical wires that I will be crossing has conduit currently. Any problems with conduit crossing the presumably insulated wires? House was built in late 1970s?


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Medicine said:


> I was thinking about this project, found this thread.
> 
> 1) to reduce bugs and drafts / heat loss would enclosed metal conduit help?
> 
> ...


Hopefully it wasn't wired using aluminum wires. Not that it impacts your question just that it's another can of worms.

Do you need metal conduit? It will conduct heat and cold as well.


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

I don't need it tobmy understanding, but I hate plastic on principle. I will also be buying clay drainage tiles to run french drains if that helps you see where I am coming from. Will have to buy a whole truck-load from the factory. Plastic never returns to the earth unless you burn it


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Metal conduit is about 1000x more difficult to install. That's why flexible plastic is used.

Since it more than likely just won't be used, the extra effort/expensive is difficult to justify.

-KP


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

I better buy my wife 1000 massages then... I can't bring myself to install plastic conduit. 

Do they make flexible metal conduit or is that too small diameter / lined with plastic?

One inch conduit for each set of 4 cat6a and 2 quad shielded coax will be enough space? Or can i i g by woth a smaller size conduit?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Go larger rather than smaller. You never know what else you might need in the future.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You'd be surprised how small that conduit becomes _really_ quickly.

Your best bet is to run 2 RG6 and 2 UTP to every location and maybe even Fiber. Then you won't really have to worry about it.

Make your Data Closet REALLY easy to access. Like walk up to _both_ front and rear easy...

-KP


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Here is flexible conduit I used from my family room TV to my office closet where I keep the equipment: Receiver/ATV/Blu-Ray/Roamio/MacMini.
The upper box is for TV Power/Cat5e/IR Sensor to Hub/HDMI/TV Backlight
The lower Box is for FL/Center/FR speakers/Subwoofer. Although I moved the Subwoofer since it rattled the TV cabinet too much


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

Anotherpyr said:


> Hopefully it wasn't wired using aluminum wires. Not that it impacts your question just that it's another can of worms./QUOTE]
> 
> Can you tell me more about aluminum wires? I have seen problems when tge electric company tries to splice copper and aluminum. Doesn't work for long


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

Larger than 1 inch?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Medicine said:


> I better buy my wife 1000 massages then... I can't bring myself to install plastic conduit.


You really don't need metal conduit. Plastic is fine.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Medicine said:


> Can you tell me more about aluminum wires? I have seen problems when tge electric company tries to splice copper and aluminum. Doesn't work for long


Aluminum is not as good a conductor as copper. It's also softer. Connections to copper or other dissimilar metals are problematic and require connections that are approved for aluminum. So standard outlets and wire nuts aren't approved as they've been known to cause fires when used with aluminum wire.

For more info The True Story Behind Aluminum Wiring - Part One | Carson Dunlop Home Inspection Training


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> Your best bet is to run 2 RG6 and 2 UTP to every location and maybe even Fiber. Then you won't really have to worry about it.


That's the way to go, but there is no use case for fiber inside a home, and probably won't ever be. You want what everyone else has, i.e. CAT-5e compatible and RG-59/6 compatible. These days, you would use CAT-6 and RG-6 at a minimum.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I'd probably still consider running at least a few runs of Fiber.

File sizes are already huge with 4k BluRay, that being able to move Data at 10g speeds could be very useful going forward.

-KP


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> I'd probably still consider running at least a few runs of Fiber.
> 
> File sizes are already huge with 4k BluRay, that being able to move Data at 10g speeds could be very useful going forward.
> 
> -KP


Few houses have fiber, so few applications will be developed that need fiber. Other than a business-grade network, which would just as easily be done using 10 gigabit over CAT-6, or a very, very high end video distribution system with Crestron fiber, I have no clue what you would do with fiber in a house other than running in to an ONT/modem.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You can get a Switch with Fiber Ports.

After just rolling 3 NAS's to another new 10tb NAS, any extra speed is gladly received. Not that they would have done better, as they're all 'just' gigabit devices, but we're talking about 'future proofing'.

-KP


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> You can get a Switch with Fiber Ports.
> 
> After just rolling 3 NAS's to another new 10tb NAS, any extra speed is gladly received. Not that they would have done better, as they're all 'just' gigabit devices, but we're talking about 'future proofing'.


Great. You can do 10 gig copper, and either way, there is no use case for a home user to have 10 gig networking.


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

Cat6a can run 10 gbit/s right? Are 10 gb switches designed for cat 6a? I haven't researched switches yet. Was going to get gb switch for now amd go to 10 gb switch later when price comes down. 

I dontd know if Surface Studio 2 can handle 10 gb Ethernet. 

One of my nas has am upgrade slot for 10 gb etherEth card (qnap) nut didn't buy it yet.

What size conduit to run 2 quad shielded coax and 4 cat 6a ethernet llines? I think i will make one of the cat 6a a telephone line because i want a copper line to the house


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

I guess I'll be the naysayer but I just use wifi in my home. A good wifi router and mesh extenders and you don't really need Ethernet. Wifi is getting better all the time. I stream everywhere, from one end of the house to the other, with no problem. Coax is going to be thing of the past and probably Ethernet too.


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## Mgalin (Jan 7, 2002)

I didn't have Coax in the rooms where I had mini's.. When i moved, I tried Ethernet over power 2GB (AV2000) - the mini's worked like garbage - they didn't deal with dropouts well.. I then went to wifi bridges, worked better, but also didn't take well to dropouts.. (Mini's don't try very hard before failing / dropping errors) - I ended up running CAT6A. But keep in mind - if your gonna do ethernet, your dealing with switches. I ended up putting in a Netgear GS105PE in my attic and remotely powering it from a powered POE switch in my office. IMHO, if you aren't doing CAT6 to backhaul ethernet for a home office, MOCA works pretty damn well and you don't need switches.


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## Qnapfan (Feb 13, 2019)

I don't know if this is done regularly.... but I would knee jerk to the largest conduit the space would allow ... that and if there was extra space in the tube ... put in a dummy stringer line already threaded where possible. I would think this cheaper than an actual line while affording the potential for stringing in something new as the tech emerges? Given how long houses tend to last ... I wouldn't be surprised at getting 'future proofing' initiatives wrong. I've lost count on how many failed attempts I've made in future proofing computer tech!


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## Medicine (Feb 17, 2019)

Structural issue if cut too big hole for large conduit?


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## Qnapfan (Feb 13, 2019)

Full disclaimer ... I'm not a civil engineer or professional in the construction industry ... merely an enthusiastic dyi type. All I would say without reservation ... is be very careful of structural and or load bearing elements ... and if course electrical and plumbing obstructions. Tentatively, if none of those pose a problem ... then it's left to personal aesthetics.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Clarity update: Certainly hole cuts in vertical studs more of an issue or load bearing studs but going horizontal holes through blocking is less of an issue.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Don't forget the sheetrockers and those nifty drywall screws.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

I wouldn't use wifi, wireless isn't as reliable as hard wiring, has security problems, and is subject to interference. Files will only get bigger in the future.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Medicine said:


> Cat6a can run 10 gbit/s right? Are 10 gb switches designed for cat 6a? I haven't researched switches yet. Was going to get gb switch for now amd go to 10 gb switch later when price comes down.
> 
> I dontd know if Surface Studio 2 can handle 10 gb Ethernet.
> 
> ...


You can run 10gbe on CAT-6, I think it will run at a shorter distance on 5e as well. There's also N-BaseT for 2.5 and 5gbps depending on what wiring you have.

Any wiring you're running while the walls are open should be directly in the walls, not in the conduit. Leave the conduit empty for future use, that's the entire reason it's there. As big as practical is the way to go, as who knows what they will have in the future.



Qnapfan said:


> All I would say without reservation ... is be very careful of structural and or load bearing elements ... and if course electrical and plumbing obstructions. Tentatively, if none of those pose a problem ... then it's left to personal aesthetics.


There are rules of thumb for how much plumbers can drill through, it would be the same for telecom conduit.



tenthplanet said:


> I wouldn't use wifi, wireless isn't as reliable as hard wiring, has security problems, and is subject to interference. Files will only get bigger in the future.


Everyone has Wi-Fi, so the security argument is idiotic. However, interference and speed are good reasons to have at least some Ethernet. I'm not sure I'd retrofit right now, but if you're building new, doing a major remodel, or adding on right now, it would be idiotic NOT to run Ethernet and Coax to every room.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

For anyone who lives in close proximity to others, security is a thing, wi-fi sniffers are real. Some of us will never do wi-fi.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

tenthplanet said:


> For anyone who lives in close proximity to others, security is a thing, wi-fi sniffers are real. Some of us will never do wi-fi.


I literally don't think I know one single person without wifi. I used to hear some say they will never have a garage door opener because sniffers will drive by your house and open your door and steal your stuff.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

mschnebly said:


> I guess I'll be the naysayer but I just use wifi in my home. A good wifi router and mesh extenders and you don't really need Ethernet. Wifi is getting better all the time. I stream everywhere, from one end of the house to the other, with no problem. Coax is going to be thing of the past and probably Ethernet too.


You can still get better rates over wired. The microwave and other wireless devices can degrade your WiFi speed. Also the speed degrades with distance from nearest access point.

As far as security over WiFi, you can run a VPN on top of it to protect your communications.

I think it all depends on how long you plan to live somewhere. Fiber will give you the most bandwidth and highest speed followed by wired, and then wireless.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Anotherpyr said:


> You can still get better rates over wired. The microwave and other wireless devices can degrade your WiFi speed. Also the speed degrades with distance from nearest access point.
> 
> As far as security over WiFi, you can run a VPN on top of it to protect your communications.
> 
> I think it all depends on how long you plan to live somewhere. Fiber will give you the most bandwidth and highest speed followed by wired, and then wireless.


I have very good wifi spread all around my house and never get any buffering so for me it's far batter than the Ethernet I used to use. I even get coverage in the basement and garage perfectly. I know it's not a solution for everyone but when it's setup right it can be very solid. I've completely stopped using my Ethernet.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> That's the way to go, but there is no use case for fiber inside a home, and probably won't ever be. You want what everyone else has, i.e. CAT-5e compatible and RG-59/6 compatible. These days, you would use CAT-6 and RG-6 at a minimum.


I would love to have fiber at home. My gigabit connections have been my bottle necks for around nine years. Since I started using SSDs in my PCs. Especially now that I am using NVMe drives in my PCs. I have some cheap ones and they still have 8Gb/s(1000MB/s) write and 16Gb/s(2000MB/s) read speeds. WIth more expensive ones having over 24Gb/s(3000MB/s) read/write speeds.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Great. You can do 10 gig copper, and either way, there is no use case for a home user to have 10 gig networking.


of course there is. For much faster transfer rates. I could use that speed right now when transferring between my PCs. I'm typically transferring files larger than 60GB. And I first went to a gigabit network in 2001/2002 strictly because I was transferring hours of HD recordings each week that totaled 40GB to 50GB. Now I'm transferring my UHD rips around which takes a while on only a gigabit connection.

I was hoping the new spec that allows for 2.5Gbps over Cat5e and 5Gbps over Cat6 would have had more equipment and cheaper equipment by now. But it is still more than I'm willing to pay.


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## Qnapfan (Feb 13, 2019)

aaronwt said:


> of course there is. For much faster transfer rates. I could use that speed right now when transferring between my PCs. I'm typically transferring files larger than 60GB. And I first went to a gigabit network in 2001/2002 strictly because I was transferring hours of HD recordings each week that totaled 40GB to 50GB. Now I'm transferring my UHD rips around which takes a while on only a gigabit connection.
> 
> I was hoping the new spec that allows for 2.5Gbps over Cat5e and 5Gbps over Cat6 would have had more equipment and cheaper equipment by now. But it is still more than I'm willing to pay.


Prices are coming down and the market is becoming competitive in the consumer sector European companies like MikroTik have 10g hybrid consumer solutions that are reasonably priced and available (CRS305-1G-4S+IN) 4 SFP+ 10G ports + 1 POE 1G. Now for short distances the direct connect (SFP) route between switch and computer would be more economical, but for longer runs the fiber based SFP+ ports could be utilized for highest bandwidth context in conjunction with the longest runs. 10G copper while good/versatile ... has a shorter unamplified run limit.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

mschnebly said:


> I literally don't think I know one single person without wifi. I used to hear some say they will never have a garage door opener because sniffers will drive by your house and open your door and steal your stuff.


How many people do you know that are surrounded by 14 wi-fi networks, it's different in multi family housing.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tenthplanet said:


> How many people do you know that are surrounded by 14 wi-fi networks, it's different in multi family housing.


Two. One in a TP, one in an RV park. Quite common in FL and AZ. Many RV parks offer open WiFi too.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I live in a single family neighborhood and just checked my Mac which is on the south end of the house and saw 8 SSIDs.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tenthplanet said:


> For anyone who lives in close proximity to others, security is a thing, wi-fi sniffers are real. Some of us will never do wi-fi.


You have to have Wi-Fi anyway, even if all of your desktops and streaming boxes are on Ethernet, and that's why WPA2 exists. Put some crazy password on it, if you are super paranoid, use MAC Address filtering and hidden SSIDs, but that's all a PITA if you want to connect a friend to your network when they come over.



aaronwt said:


> I would love to have fiber at home. My gigabit connections have been my bottle necks for around nine years. Since I started using SSDs in my PCs. Especially now that I am using NVMe drives in my PCs. I have some cheap ones and they still have 8Gb/s(1000MB/s) write and 16Gb/s(2000MB/s) read speeds. WIth more expensive ones having over 24Gb/s(3000MB/s) read/write speeds.


You are generally the exception to the rule for everything. 



tenthplanet said:


> How many people do you know that are surrounded by 14 wi-fi networks, it's different in multi family housing.


Lots of people. If the interference is that bad, you hard wire everything you can, and just accept slow Wi-Fi.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

mschnebly said:


> I have very good wifi spread all around my house and never get any buffering so for me it's far batter than the Ethernet I used to use. I even get coverage in the basement and garage perfectly. I know it's not a solution for everyone but when it's setup right it can be very solid. I've completely stopped using my Ethernet.


True, but the rate required for streaming 4K is only 25Mb according to Netflix. I haven't had any issues with my wireless for that matter.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

tenthplanet said:


> How many people do you know that are surrounded by 14 wi-fi networks, it's different in multi family housing.


I live in a condo apartment, and right now my iPhone shows about 20 wi-fi networks. Although I'm only 1100 square feet, I have never been able to get a single strong wi-fi signal from one end of my apartment to the other. The layout is such that my office (second bedroom) is at one end of a long hallway, the livingroom, master bedroom, and city facing balcony with the view are at the other end. To that point I've always needed a 2nd wi-fi access point, with all the hassles that entails. The ultimate best solution for me are the hard wired Ubiquiti lite access point. No handoff issues, great speed.

FYI, I do have one piece of Ethernet cable that runs from the office in the back to the livingroom in the front, with GigE switches on both ends of that cable The cable modem and router are in the office, one access point hangs off of each switch suitably located on their respective ceilings.


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