# Why is DTV the ONLY HD provider with mandatory contracts?



## fastep (May 22, 2004)

I just read in another post of a DTV subscriber who recently switched to dish and got the VIP622 (pretty cool mpeg4 unit from what I have read)for $299 and posted that he had the OPTION to sign a contract and receive credits for doing so or not sign a contract at all. I recently added Comcast HD (and LOVE IT!!)with NO contract required. I have read that Verizon FIOS tv requires NO contracts as well.

Why then does DTV have a MANDATORY contract??!! Not only that, starting Wednesday they are INCREASING their mandatory contract period from one year to TWO YEARS AND charging MORE for their HD DVR up front??!! Is there a hidden BONUS from DTV that I am just missing? Especially since Comcast and Dish offer MORE HD programming. What's the deal? Does anyone know?

GOOD LUCK DTV!!!!!!

Comcast - call 1-888-COMCAST
Dish Network - call 1-800-966-7147
Verizon Fios TV - http://www.verizon.net/fiostvcall
Directtv - call 1-800-DIRECTTV


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

jesus. go away please.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

tem said:


> jesus. go away please.


Aren't you curious or do you let companies just walk all over you? It's like leading sheep to slaughter and we're the SHEEP!!

No I won't go away as I hope to educate others BEFORE they get stuck. Or maybe someone can explain DTV's reasoning other than to CONTAIN current customers and LIMIT choices! If someone can do that satisfactorily I WILL stop posting and maybe I'll even re-sign with DTV. I believe we all DESERVE an answer!

If you like being locked with little choice - more power to you!


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I would like to know the answer to that question myself. I am getting more and more fed up with DirecTV everyday. I am really looking forward to the TiVo Series 3 and cable. I may be going back to cable next year or sooner. Will see.


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## bgtimber75 (Jun 2, 2002)

When I first signed up it was a 1 year comitment and I didn't have a problem with it. 2 years is excesive though. Especially if you have to pay for equipment up front. At least with Cellphone service you're getting the equipment at a greatly reduced price.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

bgtimber75 said:


> When I first signed up it was a 1 year comitment and I didn't have a problem with it. 2 years is excesive though. Especially if you have to pay for equipment up front. At least with Cellphone service you're getting the equipment at a greatly reduced price.


EXACTLY!!! REDUCED equipment pricing and/or service discounts for signing a contract (like Dish). That makes sense. I thought I was the only one who noticed! Good to know there's others out there that want the best bang for their buck!!


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

I'm not locked in and you're just a freaking annoying troll.

One or two posts is OK, but this isn't the "I must save the ignorant from DTV" forum where you must feel compelled to post the same thing in half a dozen threads. Any more than that just marks you as a rube.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

fastep said:


> Why then does DTV have a MANDATORY contract??!! Not only that, starting Wednesday they are INCREASING their mandatory contract period from one year to TWO YEARS AND charging MORE for their HD DVR up front??!! Is there a hidden BONUS from DTV that I am just missing? Especially since Comcast and Dish offer MORE HD programming. What's the deal? Does anyone know?


Starting 3/1/2006...

you'll be able to lease equipment at a certain price and have a commitment period of 1 or 2 years depending on the type of equipment you get

OR

you'll be able to buy equipment at a certain slightly higher price and NOT have a commitment period


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## BlankMan (Mar 30, 2002)

tem said:


> I'm not locked in and you're just a freaking annoying troll.
> 
> One or two posts is OK, but this isn't the "I must save the ignorant from DTV" forum where you must feel compelled to post the same thing in half a dozen threads. Any more than that just marks you as a rube.


It be nice if you followed your own advice.

I find this subject interesting, and Doug posted information that I was not aware of, so this thread is serving its purpose of disseminating information.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

fastep said:


> Aren't you curious or do you just let companies just walk all over you? It's like leading sheep to slaughter and we're the SHEEP!!
> 
> No I won't go away as I hope to educate others BEFORE they get stuck.


Walk all over you?  Let's see... company X has a term contract. Customer... yes it's acceptable or no it's not. Seems pretty simple to me. No 'education' needed. Perhaps you underestimate people's ability to make an informed decision because *you* had some problem understanding the simplicity of either accepting it or not. <shrug>


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Based on info in their recent Investor Day slideshow, I'd guess it is to keep customers from leaving at the drop of the hat for starters. By giving you one more step between you and the door, you might reconsider a change from DTV to someone else. If this means you have to packup and send back your equipment to revoke the 1 or 2 year contract, you once again are put in a position where you will not be able to simply just switch.

I don't always agree with it, but if you are a longer term customer you should always be able to get out of contracts. Since your history with them is proof that you are not going to take flight when a better deal comes along.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Mark Lopez said:


> Walk all over you?  Let's see... company X has a term contract. Customer... yes it's acceptable or no it's not. Seems pretty simple to me. No 'education' needed. Perhaps you underestimate people's ability to make an informed decision because *you* had some problem understanding the simplicity of either accepting it or not. <shrug>


Are you telling me a two year contract is ACCEPTABLE to you ??? If it's that simple to you than you're the PERFECT DTV customer!!!!!

Loyalty is one thing but come on!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

rkester said:


> Based on info in their recent Investor Day slideshow, I'd guess it is to keep customers from leaving at the drop of the hat for starters. By giving you one more step between you and the door, you might reconsider a change from DTV to someone else. If this means you have to packup and send back your equipment to revoke the 1 or 2 year contract, you once again are put in a position where you will not be able to simply just switch.
> 
> I don't always agree with it, but if you are a longer term customer you should always be able to get out of contracts. Since your history with them is proof that you are not going to take flight when a better deal comes along.


I'll go where it is SIMPLEST to switch thank you. Last I checked, I live in America. Let's see, hmmmmmm, DTV - LOCKED IN, all other HD service providers - SIMPLE TO SWITCH and save money! Which way should I go?.......

And yes - customers like me, (you know, a VERY LONG-TERM (8 years) customer that spent $2000 on TWO lousy hdtivos and averaged $130 a month for programming and bought the NFL package since it started), I was informed there was nothing that could be done about the contract that started over when I activated an r-10 a few months ago. So if you are waiting for a policy change I wouldn't hold my breath!


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Cable doesn't allow you to buy your equipment, as far as I know. Even if they did, I don't believe they'd offer up a HD-DVR for $299-$100MIR like DirecTV did back in August. I understood at that time that there was a 2 year commitment (started on advanced equipment at the beginning of that month), but if I back out I can send it back or pay a prorated amount on the balance. I also have a Lifetime DVR service, $199 I paid 5 years ago next month, and that's something else cable won't do. 

You really do need to pick a new theme, fastep, you're coming off as a "one note" poster. You weren't happy so you left. That's fine, no one should stay in a situation where they're not happy, if they're able to move. But, it's like you think everyone should follow you. I've checked out what my cable co. has to offer and I'll pass. No FOX, CBS, or NFL Network in HD? I'm not giving up NFL-ST if you can't offer me those things at a bare minimum.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I agree with a lot of what fastep is saying here. I agreed to a one year contract with DTV two years ago. Then when I had a problem with my HR10-250 that needed replaced, DTV took it appon themselves to re-up my contract for another year and did not tell me about it. I bought another HR10-250 and they upped my contract another year without telling me. I found this all out after the fact. I am working on getting the contacts removed from my account.

Most cable companies will pay you $200 to switch to cover the contact fees though.

I do not agree with what DTV is doing with contracts.

This is America you know, and you should be able to switch to whomever you what whenever you want.

If I get a better deal somewhere else I will be leaving DTV too. I just can not get TiVo and HD in one box from anyone else. When that changes, I will change too.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Starting 3/1/2006...
> 
> you'll be able to lease equipment at a certain price and have a commitment period of 1 or 2 years depending on the type of equipment you get
> 
> ...


Just called DTV (again) and this is the scoop:

Starting 3-1-06: HD DVR lease only through DTV - upfront cost $749 less $100 rebate and $99 installation. TWO YEAR AGREEMENT IS MANDATORY!!! This is the 3rd time I have been told this. PLEASE - If you have information to the contrary please post who you talked to. THREE DIFFERENT retention supervisors have been ADAMANT that the CONTRACT is NOT NEGOTIABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

fastep said:


> Are you telling me a two year contract is ACCEPTABLE to you ??? If it's that simple to you than you're the PERFECT DTV customer!!!!!
> 
> Loyalty is one thing but come on!


If they offered what I wanted, and depending on the 'penalty' for quitting early, then yes. If they didn't offer what I wanted or I didn't like the penalty, then no. How much simpler can it be?


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

bidger said:


> Cable doesn't allow you to buy your equipment, as far as I know. .


Unfortunately, you are wrong. What is really unfortunate for DTV subscribers is that just the OPPOSITE is true! With cable holds the future for HD Dvrs in something called "cablecard" which allows manufacturers to mass produce HD Dvrs that can be customized to work with any cable and Fios Tv provider. This technology does NOT work with satellite.

Therefore, your CHOICE of HD Dvrs will be geatest with cable. I have already bought 2 sony 500gb HD DVRS and like those even better than the cable moto 6412! There are at least 3 more coming soon (Tivo3, Panasonic 250gb,3-tuner HD Dvr and a new sony dual tuner (mine only has one).

With DTV - you are allowed ONE CHOICE - $749 up front to rent it and a TWO YEAR COMMITTMENT!!!!! (Or get one on ebay cheaper maybe?)

Listen - I'll say it again - Loyalty is one thing but come on !


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

fastep said:


> Just called DTV (again) and this is the scoop:
> 
> Starting 3-1-06: HD DVR lease only through DTV - upfront cost $749 less $100 rebate and $99 installation. TWO YEAR AGREEMENT IS MANDATORY!!! This is the 3rd time I have been told this. PLEASE - If you have information to the contrary please post who you talked to. THREE DIFFERENT retention supervisors have been ADAMANT that the CONTRACT is NOT NEGOTIABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They're mixing up purchase terms with lease terms.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=287514


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## bgtimber75 (Jun 2, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Starting 3/1/2006...
> 
> you'll be able to lease equipment at a certain price and have a commitment period of 1 or 2 years depending on the type of equipment you get
> 
> ...


So does that mean I can buy an HD Tivo on E-bay today and activate it on Wednesday without a 2 year commitment? If that's the case then it's not as bad as I thought.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

bgtimber75 said:


> So does that mean I can buy an HD Tivo on E-bay today and activate it on Wednesday without a 2 year commitment? If that's the case then it's not as bad as I thought.


It should; we'll see come 3/1, though.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

dswallow said:


> It should; we'll see come 3/1, though.


I would call first before laying out alot of $$$$$$.

1-800-directtv

Ask for a supervisor.

Can others PLEASE post what response DTV gave them?

Thanks - many people out there want to know!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I really just don't get the super-furor over the commitment...

You're not gonna drop $400-$500 on equipment "today" if you think you're going to cancel service "tomorrow", right?

The "commitment" amounts to agreeing to pay a penalty if you want to cancel earlier; the penalty is only $300 (or $150) and it's prorated over your 24 months (or 12 months) commitment period. Outside of canceling, the "commitment" is just to subscribe to any Total Choice package at all -- not to any specific one.

Maybe things will change a little come 3/1 in this regard but historically if you move and cannot get a signal to receive DirecTV at your new home, DirecTV has waived penalty fees.

And you can always ship back the equipment you had active at the time of cancellation instead of paying any penalty.

So anyone contemplating an HR10-250 HD DVR probably is already paying upwards of $70-$80 per month to DirecTV or more so allowing for 50% of the commtiment period to have passed before needing to cancel for whatever reason, you're looking at a penlty cost at worst of less than 2 months of your subscription cost.

Is this really all that significant compared to your other expenses/costs with DirecTV?


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I really just don't get the super-furor over the commitment...
> 
> You're not gonna drop $400-$500 on equipment "today" if you think you're going to cancel service "tomorrow", right?
> 
> ...


I just want people to know so they can get an over-all impression of the company they will be paying a monthly fee to. I think a company's policies go a long way to reflect the kind of company they are (just like the NDS' inability to hack a 30-second skip). People have a right to know ALL the facts!

Remember - It's NOT the $$$$ - it's THE POINT!

And by the way, I don't think it's such a good idea that telling people if they purchase an HDtivo today that they "may not" get locked into a contract without knowing for sure. I think my advice in calling first is more prudent. Maybe we don't have money to burn like some others!


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## unclebrownie (Dec 31, 2001)

tem said:


> I'm not locked in and you're just a freaking annoying troll.
> 
> One or two posts is OK, but this isn't the "I must save the ignorant from DTV" forum where you must feel compelled to post the same thing in half a dozen threads. Any more than that just marks you as a rube.


 Must be that time of the month for you .


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## Bitz69 (Jul 29, 2000)

Stop Feeding the troll people...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

for the record DTV stated their 2005 customer acquisition cost was 642 dollars

hardware 272
installation 167
dealer commission 153
marketing 50

I dont know what all that means but you can probably figure it out  My guess is they are saying it costs that much to get a customer so we better keep him!


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

As far as I know you can purchase a Dish DVR for a large price (around $700 for the HD one) and avoid a contract or pay $299 or $99 (depends on upgrade path and rebate) to lease one and be under an 18 month contract. It all comes down to what you prefer. I was with Dish for 7.5 years and they started the leasing and contracts. I decided to give Directv a try and so far so good. Yes I'm under a 2 year contract, but can return the equipment if I decide to leave and avoid the penalty. As long as my Tivos work I won't be going anywhere. After that who knows. I knew going in that I would have a contract, but there was no way for me to have 4 dual tuner DVRs with Dish for the price that I got with Directv.


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## (bruce_bruce) (Nov 1, 2003)

bidger said:


> Cable doesn't allow you to buy your equipment, as far as I know. Even if they did, I don't believe they'd offer up a HD-DVR for $299-$100MIR like DirecTV did back in August. I understood at that time that there was a 2 year commitment (started on advanced equipment at the beginning of that month), but if I back out I can send it back or pay a prorated amount on the balance. I also have a Lifetime DVR service, $199 I paid 5 years ago next month, and that's something else cable won't do.


Those aren't really valid arguments.

1. Can't buy equipment. As pointed out, with cable card you have the option (e.g. Tivo HD 3.0 box). Granted their aren't a lot of options but their aren't a lot in the HD DTV world either.

2. HD 10-250 sale. This was a blowout to clear their inventory of a discontinued product. It is not an ongoing offer so it isn't fair to compare to cable.

3. Lifetime subscription. Again, DTV doesn't even offer this so you complain that cable doesn't do it.

My gripe with the mandatory contract extensions is that they invoke them even when there is no logical reason to. Sure, if they are going to give you a new DVR for cheap, I have no problem with that. But if I buy an old (or broken) Tivo off of eBay that DTV has already been compensated for (e.g. the original owner is out of contract), why should I have to re-up for 2 years? That seems like a ripoff.

Bruce


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## TheBigDogs (Oct 14, 2004)

Bruce, I fought DTV over the extended contract and won because in California, there must be an offer at full retail price that does not include a contract. When I got the HR10, I explained that to the CSR and she told me "If you don't want the contract, the price is $599" (I was looking at the $299 with MIR of $100). 

So, my option was to pay the "full" price and not have a penalty or pay the lower price and suffer some sort of penalty should I drop service at some point in the future. Each month I keep the service reduces the DTV ransom by $12.50. 

I still think that's a screw, but it does justify their position to some extent. Right now I'm in the process of contacting both state and federal representatives to tell them I want to see legislation to eliminate this policy - not just for DTV but for cell phones and anything else. Since my business spends a mid five figure amount on campaign contributions every election, I'm enclosing a copy of my receipt from the 2004 elections, just to get their attention. 

If others who are offended by this would take a similar step, this problem could be gone by this time next year.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

fastep said:


> Are you telling me a two year contract is ACCEPTABLE to you ???


Yup! Fine with me.. if it wasn't I wouldn't have agreed to it! (Why would you agree to something you don't agree with?)


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Someone once called me a shill...


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## dchamero (Feb 10, 2006)

TheBigDogs said:


> Bruce, I fought DTV over the extended contract and won because in California, there must be an offer at full retail price that does not include a contract. When I got the HR10, I explained that to the CSR and she told me "If you don't want the contract, the price is $599" (I was looking at the $299 with MIR of $100).


Well... that's bull, because if you buy the HR10 on your own (paying full price or any price you can get, or even a used one), they STILL want the 2 yr commintment just for adding the receiver....


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Yup! Fine with me.. if it wasn't I wouldn't have agreed to it! (Why would you agree to something you don't agree with?)


Good - for now. Just remember in the next two years if you add any new equipment to your account your two year contract will start over! This will probably be true when you upgrade to the HR20. When you activate the HR20 sometime next year and get pissed that there is no 30 second skip, you'll want to dump DTV.....And then you will understand. Good luck.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

fastep said:


> Good - for now. Just remember in the next two years if you add any new equipment to your account your two year contract will start over! This will probably be true when you upgrade to the HR20. When you activate the HR20 sometime next year and get pissed that there is no 30 second skip, you'll want to dump DTV.....And then you will understand. Good luck.


Why would I get pissed about something I knew before I bought it? I already know that it doesn't have a 30 second skip! Why would I be pissed?

And if I were pissed, I would just cancel and send the thing back. So who cares!


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

fastep said:


> ....and get pissed that there is no 30 second skip, you'll want to dump DTV......


LOL Anyone who would dump the service just because there is no 30 second skip has some serious issues IMO.


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