# Some basic questions on the TS4k



## TitanTiger (May 5, 2009)

I've looked through several threads and haven't seen exactly what I'm looking for, so forgive me if this has been discussed elsewhere already.

What is the main advantage of the TS4k over say and Apple TV or Roku (not counting the price)? Does it essentially bring a TiVo DVR interface to a streaming device? What kind of functionality does it lack that the regular Tivo's have (other than the local storage for recording shows)?

And what's the special situation with Sling compared to AT&T TV, Hulu Live or Youtube TV? Have they integrated Sling into the TiVo guide and UI in ways the others aren't?


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Pick you're streaming app ecosystem...

Android TV
Roku
Fire
Apple

Stop thinking of the TS4k as a Tivo device. It's an android tv device. Pick your ecosystem first. Then pick the device you think is best in that ecosystem. I'm in the android tv camp with the ccgtv and TS4k. I prefer the TS4k over the ccgtv because I like the remote better (for my needs), and I prefer the android tv interface over the Google TV interface. I haven't touched Roku in years, and my firetv sticks collect dust. But that's just me. 

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## TitanTiger (May 5, 2009)

I'm more in the Apple ecosystem I guess than anything else. I mean, I use AT&T TV for live television. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime and AppleTV+. 

What I was sort of hoping was that the TS4k somehow integrated all or most of that stuff into the TiVo interface I'm used to, and a remote that had more obvious functionality than the typical Roku, Apple or Fire remote. 

We only got rid of cable because our previous internet/cable provider could not get our internet to stop dropping out for hours a day even after 6-7 visits to "fix" it. Our new internet provider doesn't use traditional cable boxes and CABLECards anymore, so our TiVos are no longer live. We're just finishing watching stuff already recorded. But I miss the ease of use and a remote with more than 4 buttons.


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## Ostrasized Logicist (Jun 29, 2021)

TitanTiger said:


> I'm more in the Apple ecosystem I guess than anything else. I mean, I use AT&T TV for live television. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime and AppleTV+.
> 
> What I was sort of hoping was that the TS4k somehow integrated all or most of that stuff into the TiVo interface I'm used to, and a remote that had more obvious functionality than the typical Roku, Apple or Fire remote.
> 
> We only got rid of cable because our previous internet/cable provider could not get our internet to stop dropping out for hours a day even after 6-7 visits to "fix" it. Our new internet provider doesn't use traditional cable boxes and CABLECards anymore, so our TiVos are no longer live. We're just finishing watching stuff already recorded. But I miss the ease of use and a remote with more than 4 buttons.


The main advantage of the TS4K is that it is $30 at Wal-Mart and that is a great price for the hardware involved (which gives you 4k, Dolby Vision, etc.). However, the software side of things is horrendous. If you have just a soundbar, I think it would probably work without too many issues. If you have any kind of higher end surround sound setup, forget it. It's not worth the savings at that point.


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## TitanTiger (May 5, 2009)

It's baffling to me that TiVo didn't get ahead of this and have a solution for cord cutters that fully integrates the TiVo experience, starting with them having a live TV streaming service like YouTube TV or Hulu Live. Virtually everything you're already used to on a regular TiVo box, but the DVR is in the cloud.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Ostrasized Logicist said:


> The main advantage of the TS4K is that it is $30 at Wal-Mart and that is a great price for the hardware involved (which gives you 4k, Dolby Vision, etc.). However, the software side of things is horrendous. If you have just a soundbar, I think it would probably work without too many issues. If you have any kind of higher end surround sound setup, forget it. It's not worth the savings at that point.


My surround setups can generally work off of the ts4k remote outside of the projectors multi step power settings). I have gone the harmony route for the projector setups, but I still use the lil peanut after power on and can do pretty much everything. The two TV setups, both with receivers and 3.1 surround work fine off the peanut. In fact it works better than the ccgtv remote which doesn't seem to do cec consistently or correctly which just might have me switch the TS4k away from the one projector setup since the harmony is there.

And the harmony remotes work great with Android tv setups too. I'm sure the banner ad haters could even configure a macro to page down from it automatically.

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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

TitanTiger said:


> I'm more in the Apple ecosystem I guess than anything else. I mean, I use AT&T TV for live television. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime and AppleTV+.
> 
> What I was sort of hoping was that the TS4k somehow integrated all or most of that stuff into the TiVo interface I'm used to, and a remote that had more obvious functionality than the typical Roku, Apple or Fire remote.
> 
> We only got rid of cable because our previous internet/cable provider could not get our internet to stop dropping out for hours a day even after 6-7 visits to "fix" it. Our new internet provider doesn't use traditional cable boxes and CABLECards anymore, so our TiVos are no longer live. We're just finishing watching stuff already recorded. But I miss the ease of use and a remote with more than 4 buttons.


Well there simply isn't a way to integrate non standard iptv into an integrated guide of sorts. There is no one standard all cable companies are using as they migrate away from cable cards. No one standard, no way to "tivo" it so to speak.

I believe they do integrate sling TV into their channel guide that can integrate some other non-cable iptv services. They might be working on others, but since I don't do cable, I stopped paying attention and don't even participate in the beta stuff anymore.

Funny... Everyone whine about cable costs, and paying for stuff they don't need. People wanted more Ala carte type stuff. Well, now that there's a lot more Ala carte options and services, now everyone complains about the lack of integration, and for some they're not even saving money by the time they get done subscribing to more streaming services. Or they have to manage them more. Start one, binge for a few, cancel, start another, rinse and repeat. Seems tedious.

Seemed much easier when it was all through one source, and you could just record it all for local playback at your convenience.

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## TitanTiger (May 5, 2009)

It’s not really ala carte though. It’s a “package” just like cable, only is streaming over the internet rather than a traditional cable signal. Ala carte would mean getting to choose the 5, 10, 20 channels or so you want and nothing you don’t.


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## Ostrasized Logicist (Jun 29, 2021)

dbpaddler said:


> Well there simply isn't a way to integrate non standard iptv into an integrated guide of sorts. There is no one standard all cable companies are using as they migrate away from cable cards. No one standard, no way to "tivo" it so to speak.
> 
> I believe they do integrate sling TV into their channel guide that can integrate some other non-cable iptv services. They might be working on others, but since I don't do cable, I stopped paying attention and don't even participate in the beta stuff anymore.
> 
> ...


It is funny. I dropped cable TV service this weekend. My wife and I just used cable and DVR up until the beginning of last year when we switched to T-Mobile cellular service and received a Netflix subscription with our service package. A couple of Rokus later and it wasn't long until we didn't watch any live TV and only streamed whatever show we wanted to watch. I would have dropped the cable TV service earlier, but I had it for sports and it was convenient to have linked subscriptions to pretty much any app. Well, a pandemic later and I am pretty much over any sports. I bought an ATSC 3.0 HDHomerun to watch/dvr local networks and we will cycle through streaming services as we want to watch certain shows. We really don't use a live channel guide anymore other than to look up if there is anything to DVR over the air. We are saving a ton of money.


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## Ostrasized Logicist (Jun 29, 2021)

dbpaddler said:


> My surround setups can generally work off of the ts4k remote outside of the projectors multi step power settings). I have gone the harmony route for the projector setups, but I still use the lil peanut after power on and can do pretty much everything. The two TV setups, both with receivers and 3.1 surround work fine off the peanut. In fact it works better than the ccgtv remote which doesn't seem to do cec consistently or correctly which just might have me switch the TS4k away from the one projector setup since the harmony is there.
> 
> And the harmony remotes work great with Android tv setups too. I'm sure the banner ad haters could even configure a macro to page down from it automatically.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


My remote will operate my audio receiver just fine (volume, power, mute). I'm talking about the TS4K not outputting sound correctly. I'm sure yours is not providing the correct sound output to your system either.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Ostrasized Logicist said:


> It is funny. I dropped cable TV service this weekend. My wife and I just used cable and DVR up until the beginning of last year when we switched to T-Mobile cellular service and received a Netflix subscription with our service package. A couple of Rokus later and it wasn't long until we didn't watch any live TV and only streamed whatever show we wanted to watch. I would have dropped the cable TV service earlier, but I had it for sports and it was convenient to have linked subscriptions to pretty much any app. Well, a pandemic later and I am pretty much over any sports. I bought an ATSC 3.0 HDHomerun to watch/dvr local networks and we will cycle through streaming services as we want to watch certain shows. We really don't use a live channel guide anymore other than to look up if there is anything to DVR over the air. We are saving a ton of money.


I dropped cable and sold my Tivo's pre pandemic. Do similar but use channels dvr and have a little computer behind the TV as the server for OTA. I do actually use my mom's cable credentials for TV everywhere and it integrates her cable lineup into my OTA lineup. She uses my Amazon and Netflix. It's a great setup.

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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Ostrasized Logicist said:


> My remote will operate my audio receiver just fine (volume, power, mute). I'm talking about the TS4K not outputting sound correctly. I'm sure yours is not providing the correct sound output to your system either.


I do look at the receiver display to see the output.

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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

TitanTiger said:


> It's not really ala carte though. It's a "package" just like cable, only is streaming over the internet rather than a traditional cable signal. Ala carte would mean getting to choose the 5, 10, 20 channels or so you want and nothing you don't.


Depends where you go.... Fios you can pick five channels and the rest of your channels is pretty much an expanded OTA lineup. Hbo content isn't all on their channel. Now you need the max app. CBS and NBC don't have everything on their OTA station, you need the app. Disney pulled a ton of content from channels and it's now in their app. Much content you could get through cable channels is now gone and in various apps. Even content you previously had in certain apps has been pulled to the respective new apps.

So it's not necessarily just channels, but content as well.

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## Ostrasized Logicist (Jun 29, 2021)

dbpaddler said:


> I do look at the receiver display to see the output.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


Yeah. If I have the TS4K set to surround sound on, it outputs DD+ and my receiver says DD+ no matter the content. TIVO puts a "wrapper" around whatever the sound output. It is not converting it to DD+ it just puts the flag on there so that your device thinks it is receiving DD+. The programming the TIVO currently has set up on these devices hard codes stereo signals to left and right only and your receiver will not do any of it's processing to bring dialogue to the center channel because your receiver thinks it is receiving a DD+ signal and there shouldn't be anything in the center or the surround channels. Try this test on YouTube. Play something with surround sound turned on and see if you get anything through the center channel. Then, set the TS4K to stereo and your receiver to process stereo signal to a surround sound format and see if you get something out of the center channel.

Also, if I have surround sound turned on, I can't use Kodi as opening that program instantly crashes the sound output, probably because Kodi sees it as a corrupted signal.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Ostrasized Logicist said:


> Yeah. If I have the TS4K set to surround sound on, it outputs DD+ and my receiver says DD+ no matter the content. TIVO puts a "wrapper" around whatever the sound output. It is not converting it to DD+ it just puts the flag on there so that your device thinks it is receiving DD+. The programming the TIVO currently has set up on these devices hard codes stereo signals to left and right only and your receiver will not do any of it's processing to bring dialogue to the center channel because your receiver thinks it is receiving a DD+ signal and there shouldn't be anything in the center or the surround channels. Try this test on YouTube. Play something with surround sound turned on and see if you get anything through the center channel. Then, set the TS4K to stereo and your receiver to process stereo signal to a surround sound format and see if you get something out of the center channel.
> 
> Also, if I have surround sound turned on, I can't use Kodi as opening that program instantly crashes the sound output, probably because Kodi sees it as a corrupted signal.


I'll have to play around later this week and see if I can hear a difference between the ccgtv and TS4k as well as put my ear up to the speakers.

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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Watching Bad Batch on Disney. Marantz is showing DD+. Getting dialogue from the center and plenty of steering of sounds across the front three speakers. Which is all my LR projector setup has. Voices are across all three speakers based on where they are on screen. Seems pretty dialed in to me. 

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## Ostrasized Logicist (Jun 29, 2021)

dbpaddler said:


> Watching Bad Batch on Disney. Marantz is showing DD+. Getting dialogue from the center and plenty of steering of sounds across the front three speakers. Which is all my LR projector setup has. Voices are across all three speakers based on where they are on screen. Seems pretty dialed in to me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


Yes, if you feed it a Dolby Digital signal it works fine because the receiver thinks it is getting DD and it is receiving DD. The problem is when you have a stereo source as your receiver thinks it is getting DD, but it is only receiving stereo, thus, the receiver thinks there is only silence on the center and surround channels, so it does none of its internal processing to make "fake" surround/center. I haven't checked what happens with Atmos because I use my LG TV or Roku Ultra (HBO Max) to stream the providers with Atmos content because it is not worth the hassle trying to make it work with the TS4K. I bought the TS4K for $30 as a way to check out Android TV and get my HDHomerun set up with Kodi since LG WebOS & Roku don't support Kodi. Unfortunately, because of the sound issue, Kodi doesn't work on the TS4K either. So, it has just become a tinkering device.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TitanTiger said:


> I'm more in the Apple ecosystem I guess than anything else. I mean, I use AT&T TV for live television. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime and AppleTV+.
> 
> What I was sort of hoping was that the TS4k somehow integrated all or most of that stuff into the TiVo interface I'm used to, and a remote that had more obvious functionality than the typical Roku, Apple or Fire remote.


There is no AT&T TV app for Android TV devices such as the TS4K. But it does have apps for the other streaming cable TV services: YouTube TV, Hulu with Live TV, FuboTV, and Sling. Of those, only Sling is (partially) integrated into the TS4K's TiVo Stream app that pulls together content from multiple sources, including Netflix, HBO Max, Disney+, Hulu (original on-demand tier), Prime Video, etc. Unfortunately, though, Sling doesn't carry local network channels (except in a few large markets where the network owns the local ABC, NBC or Fox affiliate), so it's probably not a good replacement for your AT&T TV package. As for the others (YouTube TV, Hulu Live, FuboTV), you're just launching that individual app from the Android TV home screen; their content does not integrate into the TiVo Stream app as Sling's does. Also note that none of those services have channel numbers, so none make use of the 0-9 buttons on the TS4K remote.

Another option would be to go with YouTube TV with the new Chromecast with Google TV, which has a home screen UI that pulls together content recommendations from various on-demand apps as well as YouTube TV. There's even a Live tab with a channel grid guide where YouTube TV's live channels appear. But that device still has a simple remote, similar to Apple TV, Roku, and Fire TV. And the way that YouTube TV works (its guide and DVR) are somewhat different from TiVo and traditional cable boxes, so it may not suit you either.

Assuming you like your current AT&T TV service, you might be most satisfied if you stuck with it and purchased their custom Android TV streaming box and full-featured voice remote to use with it. That will give you the most traditional cable-like experience, coming closer to a TiVo than anything else. See here: AT&T TV Streaming Device, Remote, Cloud DVR & Apps

The remote has buttons for channel up/down, volume up/down, 0-9 (to enter channel numbers), transport controls, record, DVR list, last channel, and apps. The AT&T TV user interface *is* the home screen, so it doesn't so much feel like you're using a streaming device but rather a slick cable box that also offers apps. To access apps (including the Google Play store where you can download more apps), you either click Apps in the on-screen UI or click the Apps button on the remote. Unfortunately, though, that device still doesn't have the Apple TV app. So while you could use it for AT&T TV, Netflix, Prime Video and lots of other services, you'd still have to switch back to your Apple TV box for Apple TV+. Also note that while the Google Assistant voice search on this device does search for content across many apps, the UI doesn't integrate content from other apps alongside your AT&T TV content.

The AT&T TV box costs $120 new but you can find used, as well as new, ones on eBay for about half that. Be aware that a faster second-gen version of the box was submitted to the FCC for approval a few weeks back. No word on when it will be released as a replacement for the existing model but that almost certainly won't happen before AT&T TV is officially rebranded as DIRECTV Stream sometime later this month. Maybe the new model box will be released then.


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