# The Walking Dead S04E05: "Internment" 11.10.13



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Intense episode, No?

Really tired of Lizzy. I thought she had a plan taunting the Walker. I was wrong.

Carl was The Man. 

Michonne needs to keep smiling. 

The Governor - what will he do now? Maybe Carol will come back and get him.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Favorite scene was Rick and Carl mowing the walkers down. 

Why didn't they do that before?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

betts4 said:


> Favorite scene was Rick and Carl mowing the walkers down.
> 
> Why didn't they do that before?


The noise attracts more walkers and limited ammo, so guns are pretty much only used as necessary.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I'm tired of sick people. Hopefully that's over and done with now.

And that fence. Why didn't they just park some cars against the fence in the weak spots? They could line the inside of the fence with cars and it would hold forever.

Still, loving the show. I predict Carol will rescue the group from the governor somewhere down the line


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

so are we supposed to now think that the Guv was climbing the fence (then climbing back out) and feeding mice to the Walkers so they would all congregate in one spot on the fence and break it?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

^^ I didn't get that at all. I thought he was simply spying on the prison.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> I'm tired of sick people. Hopefully that's over and done with now.
> 
> And that fence. Why didn't they just park some cars against the fence in the weak spots? They could line the inside of the fence with cars and it would hold forever.
> 
> Still, loving the show. I predict Carol will rescue the group from the governor somewhere down the line


Moving cars against the fence would take away from Rick's gardening time.

Or at least they could have random noise points around the fence to spread out the walkers.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> ^^ I didn't get that at all. I thought he was simply spying on the prison.


well, someone has been feeding them mice. Walkers have also been gathering in one spot, and one spot only, for no apparent reason (well, other than 'this is where you can get mice' reason), weakening the fence...So I was just wondering if we will eventually find out that the Guv was responsible...

which would make it the most roundabout diabolical plan ever!


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> The noise attracts more walkers and limited ammo, so guns are pretty much only used as necessary.


Didn't they show an enormous dumpster full of ammo in this ep? Right beside the one full of guns?


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

I thought it was a great episode but my first thought, just like when the sickness first occurred is "Why don't they keep those cells closed?". They showed Hershel closing some cells yet somehow all the dead still managed to get out.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> The noise attracts more walkers and limited ammo, so guns are pretty much only used as necessary.


Maybe so, but it seems like it would have been smart to use the guns and to get rid of the horde BEFORE it became so critical that they knocked the fence down and compromised the prison.

I wonder if the Gov is somehow leading those 7500 walkers that swamped Daryl over towards the prison.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

zordude said:


> Didn't they show an enormous dumpster full of ammo in this ep? Right beside the one full of guns?


I believe those were large laundry bins, but yes they were filled with guns and ammo.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

zordude said:


> Didn't they show an enormous dumpster full of ammo in this ep? Right beside the one full of guns?


Yep- all uncovered out in the open where all the humidity and pouring down rain in the world can get them. 

Lizzie playing footsie in Glenn's bloody phlegm-goo just cemented the fact that she is one strange ranger. And that one tiny little "cough" is still sounding fake IMO, especially when all the other affected folks are dropping like flies.

And haha, but Rick's _so_ afraid of telling Darryl about Carol.
As he should be.

LOVED Rick and Carl teaming up- he gained a new respect for his son there.
As he should- Carl is my fav and this ep made me very happy.

Herschel was quite the effective walker tosser there, too. 
Mall Santa gone mad indeed 

I am totally bored by the Governor and hope that wraps up quickly, but I know my hope is in vain.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Yep- all uncovered out in the open where all the humidity and pouring down rain in the world can get them.


Ha! I commented to my wife that they didn't seem concerned about their guns and ammo getting rained on


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Anubys said:


> Walkers have also been gathering in one spot, and one spot only, for no apparent reason (well, other than 'this is where you can get mice' reason), weakening the fence...


I shouldn't try to apply logic to a zombie movie, but...
The way the walkers pushed through the fence seemed too organized. That many bodies _leaning_ on it or crowding towards it wasn't enough. It took some _pushing_. Once they got through, they turned into slow shamblers again, easily mowed down.

Anyway, after finishing that group off it seemed like Rick and Carl just left, paying no special attention to the *big hole in the fence*.

During the bright and sunny morning after scene, when Herschel was getting in the jeep with Michone, I kept expecting a final surprise (like the end of a slasher movie) -- one presumed-dead walker getting Herschel.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

tlc said:


> Anyway, after finishing that group off it seemed like Rick and Carl just left, paying no special attention to the *big hole in the fence*.


Holes in TWO fences!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> I shouldn't try to apply logic to a zombie movie, but...
> The way the walkers pushed through the fence seemed too organized. That many bodies _leaning_ on it or crowding towards it wasn't enough. It took some _pushing_. Once they got through, they turned into slow shamblers again, easily mowed down.


Although the pushing could have been simple crowd dynamics, the kind that gets normal people killed...when people at the back of a crowd move forward, crushing the people in the front of the crowd.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

zordude said:


> Didn't they show an enormous dumpster full of ammo in this ep? Right beside the one full of guns?


That's what it looked like, but it it's not an unlimited supply and as far as anyone knows, they'll have to live in the zombie apocalypse for a long long time. There is no running to the store to buy more as needed. You make what you have last as long as you can.
Since the early episodes of the series, bullets have been, for the most part, only used as necessary.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

betts4 said:


> Maybe so, but it seems like it would have been smart to use the guns and to get rid of the horde BEFORE it became so critical that they knocked the fence down and compromised the prison.


Yes, it might seem like that.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

tlc said:


> ... During the bright and sunny morning after scene, when Herschel was getting in the jeep with Michone, I kept expecting a final surprise (like the end of a slasher movie) -- one presumed-dead walker getting Herschel.


If that happened, then his character would be *Herschel Walker*.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

getreal said:


> If that happened, then his character would be *Herschel Walker*.


:up:

..how long have you been waiting to use that. ;D


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## LaurenLMHC (Aug 28, 2013)

I was disappointed that neither Herschel, nor Maggie seemed even remotely upset about losing someone who has been with them since almost the beginning. Carol is one of the few remaining originals and her character deserved more acknowledgement. Which does suggest IMO that she will be back. Or just lazy writing. I'm hoping the former!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, duh she's going to be back! 

As for their lack of being upset, I think the point the writers are trying to make (and not doing a very good job) is that Carol murdered two of their own. By Carol's standards, Glenn, Herschel, Creepy Child, and everybody else in the sick ward would now be dead. Because that's what we do with sick people when we're Carol.

Carol really has turned into something of a monster. The mystery, given that the writers have clearly set her up for that, is that everybody isn't more upset with what she did.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

LaurenLMHC said:


> I was disappointed that neither Herschel, nor Maggie seemed even remotely upset about losing someone who has been with them since almost the beginning. Carol is one of the few remaining originals and her character deserved more acknowledgement.


Neither Herschel nor Maggie were originals.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Carol really has turned into something of a monster. The mystery, given that the writers have clearly set her up for that, is that everybody isn't more upset with what she did.


Agreed.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Favorite scene was Rick and Carl mowing the walkers down.
> 
> Why didn't they do that before?





scandia101 said:


> The noise attracts more walkers and limited ammo, so guns are pretty much only used as necessary.


As long as the walkers are on the outside of the fence, there's no reason to waste all of your ammo shooting at them. As others have said, ammo has to be a somewhat scarce resource at this point.

But really, they should have done a better job of shoring up the fence. And they should have been able to spread out the herd somewhat using noise and other distractions, to where they could take them out more readily. They let the horde build up far too much.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Cearbhaill said:


> I am totally bored by the Governor and hope that wraps up quickly, but I know my hope is in vain.


I was totally bored by the governor last season and wasn't happy he is being brought back so soon - :down:

On an did anybody else see that? moment 
- anyone else notice that in the "previously on" footage they showed Carol dragging the body out - 
they showed that moment before after she turned the corner without revealing who was doing the dragging.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> As long as the walkers are on the outside of the fence, there's no reason to waste all of your ammo shooting at them. As others have said, ammo has to be a somewhat scarce resource at this point


I would think that they could have looted more ammo from Woodbury than they could ever need.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

zordude said:


> I would think that they could have looted more ammo from Woodbury than they could ever need.


Good point. They had a lot of supplies there. I'd think they'd have antibiotics and such as well. They even had a female doctor that must've gotten killed since I've not seen her.

Regarding Carol - I find her fascinating and agree that she has become a monster. I'm glad they added this to her otherwise boring (but endearing) character. I'm interested in how she and Daryl will play out. I think he was affected by the empathy she once showed him which, given his upbringing, must have been refreshing.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I would imagine that if Woodbury had ammo or any other supplies they could take, they most certainly would have taken it.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

Yeah, the guns and ammo out in the open seemed like a real weird storage situation, and as we've said in other episode threads, I don't know why they haven't simply circled the wagons around the perimeter, driving dragging or otherwise parking vehicles around the fence and setting up a perimeter system like the one used at Woodbury.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DreadPirateRob said:


> As long as the walkers are on the outside of the fence, there's no reason to waste all of your ammo shooting at them. As others have said, ammo has to be a somewhat scarce resource at this point.


I can see this for the most part, in normal walker times, but these walkers weren't just all around the perimeter like they used to be, they were up against the fence in one spot and in an already weakened spot. It was an oddity that should have been handled differently. like with a lot of ammo.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Whoever built the prison should have dug the fence post holes much deeper than the apparent 6 inches.

If you want a 12 foot tall fence, the depth for the fence posts need to go 1/3 of the height, or 4 feet deep.

If your fence is 20 feet high, then the posts need to go to a depth of about 7 feet.

The only parts breaking in the zombie world would be, literally, the "weak link in the chain" link where it attaches to the fence posts.



> "Depending on the geographical location, fence height, and fencing materials used, post hole size may vary," says the Hoover Fence Co. A rule of thumb it recommends is to dig the hole to a depth one-third of the height of the fence that's above ground, so that a 12-foot-high fence requires a 4-foot hole. Typically, a chain link fence with a gate requires even deeper post holes to withstand the additional stress of a moving gate, advises Hoover Fence.
> 
> Read more: http://www.ehow.com/decision_7180998_deep-chain-fence-post-be_.html#ixzz2kOyLsQSD


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## LaurenLMHC (Aug 28, 2013)

john4200 said:


> Neither Herschel nor Maggie were originals.


That's why I said "almost since the beginning." I only said Carol was an original


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

LaurenLMHC said:


> That's why I said "almost since the beginning." I only said Carol was an original


That's why I did not say that you said they were originals. I only said that Herschel and Maggie were not originals.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

getreal said:


> Whoever built the prison should have dug the fence post holes much deeper than the apparent 6 inches.
> 
> If you want a 12 foot tall fence, the depth for the fence posts need to go 1/3 of the height, or 4 feet deep.
> 
> ...


Not to mention they'd be set in concrete.

I'd imagine a prison fence has much different depth requirements so prisoners can't tunnel their way out like every prison movie ever.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

My money's still on the crazy child for feeding the rats to the walkers.

Love Herschel's "put down the Bible, pick up the shotgun" moment.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, duh she's going to be back!
> 
> As for their lack of being upset, I think the point the writers are trying to make (and not doing a very good job) is that Carol murdered two of their own. By Carol's standards, Glenn, Herschel, Creepy Child, and everybody else in the sick ward would now be dead. Because that's what we do with sick people when we're Carol.
> 
> Carol really has turned into something of a monster. The mystery, given that the writers have clearly set her up for that, is that everybody isn't more upset with what she did.


I disagree! I think the intent is to show us how desensitized everyone has become to the loss of a close friend/loved one. Pragmatism rules supreme and emotions are really kept in check "for the sake of the tribe".


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'm hoping the sickness is done. Their "lockdown" procedures still frustrate me. That just could have been handled so much better.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I'm hoping the sickness is done. Their "lockdown" procedures still frustrate me. That just could have been handled so much better.


Well, since Hersh was the one who kept holding out hope that it'll all be ok and a lot of the "procedure" was his doing. This should be an eye opener.

But Hersh is an idiot at times, so..

In the cell, door shut, unless you NEED to be out.

If you can't get up, you get tied down.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Does anyone remember that Herschel also kept a load of Walkers in his barn? for months? 

He is not the brightest bulb when it comes to some things, but he is very good with medical.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I thought Lizzy was the one feeding the walkers on the fence, but we never learned for sure.



Beryl said:


> Really tired of Lizzy. I thought she had a plan taunting the Walker. I was wrong.


Her plan was to get it away from Glen so that it didn't kill him.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Her plan was to get it away from Glen so that it didn't kill him.


That is exactly what I thought. Not a bad idea but it would have been better if she had a long metal spike to put thru the walkers head.

Maggie was great this episode. Loved seeing her shoot out the glass.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Was there even anything mechanically keeping the cells shut once they were closed? Did it take a manual "lever" to open them?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Was there even anything mechanically keeping the cells shut once they were closed? Did it take a manual "lever" to open them?


No, it looked like they were just closed, but not locked. I'm assuming the thinking is that the walkers don't open things. they push through, so as long as they don't wedge into the edge of the door it won't easily be opened.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Adam Savage on Talking Dead addressed some of the fence issues "triangles are your friend",lol


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Does anyone remember that Herschel also kept a load of Walkers in his barn? for months?
> 
> He is not the brightest bulb when it comes to some things, but he is very good with medical.


He thought there would be a cure. He was never in the outside world and had no idea how bad things were (or the proof Rick had from the CDC). I don't think he made a bad assumption.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Was there even anything mechanically keeping the cells shut once they were closed? Did it take a manual "lever" to open them?


I wondered the same...


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Her plan was to get it away from Glen so that it didn't kill him.


Well, yes and no. She did want to get it away from Glenn, but she actually thought she was calling it and that he was coming because she was calling. She was surprised when he attacked her and told Herschel as much - she thought he was listening to her, not hunting her.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Zevida said:


> Well, yes and no. She did want to get it away from Glenn, but she actually thought she was calling it and that he was coming because she was calling. She was surprised when he attacked her and told Herschel as much - she thought he was listening to her, not hunting her.


Yeah...she was also calling it by name. Where has this kid been?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Yeah...she was also calling it by name. Where has this kid been?


Hanging out with Hershel to much.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Zevida said:


> Well, yes and no. She did want to get it away from Glenn, but she actually thought she was calling it and that he was coming because she was calling. She was surprised when he attacked her and told Herschel as much - she thought he was listening to her, not hunting her.


Right. Her attitude towards the walkers is why I assumed (and kind of still do) that she was the one feeding them. However, I thought we have seen multiple episodes now where she has been proven wrong. Didn't she even reflect on this in a prior episode?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

betts4 said:


> That is exactly what I thought. Not a bad idea but it would have been better if she had a long metal spike to put thru the walkers head.


There was no way she was going to kill the walker. She thinks walkers are still people.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

If I was Rick....I'd make sure I was with the rest of the council when I told Daryl.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

"Daryl, I had no choice but to exile her. She was making unilateral decisions that affected the group. Wait, um, I mean..."


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

danterner said:


> "Daryl, I had no choice but to exile her. She was making unilateral decisions that affected the group. Wait, um, I mean..."


Why do people keep saying that? Did I miss some scene where Rick told Carol he was exiling her?

All I saw was Rick saying (or implying) that he would not keep Carol's murders a secret, that Tyreese might attack Carol, and that Rick would not trust Carol around his kids anymore. It seemed like the two of them agreed that it would be best for Carol not to come back. But if Carol had said, "I'm coming back", I did not see anything to lead me to believe that Rick would tell her "I won't allow it".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It seemed clear to me...


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

It was pretty clear to me too. Rick told her he can't trust her in the group and she'd better find another one. She did protest. He was firm.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Zevida said:


> It was pretty clear to me too. Rick told her he can't trust her in the group and she'd better find another one. She did protest. He was firm.


He was firm in telling her what he thought -- he thought that Tyreese would try to kill her, that the other people would not want her around, and if everybody else died and it was just the two of them (plus his kids, presumably), he would not have her there with his kids. That last was the only time he gave her any orders, and he prefaced that with saying if it were only the two of them.

Carol was in denial that what she did was wrong. Rick had to talk harshly to try to get her to realize it. I'm not sure he succeeded completely, but between Rick's comment about not wanting her around his kids, and the other points he made, it seemed that Carol was persuaded that it would be best for her to not come back to the prison. Certainly Rick did not forbid her from coming back, let alone "exile" her.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Zevida said:


> It was pretty clear to me too. Rick told her he can't trust her in the group and she'd better find another one. She did protest. He was firm.


She didn't *really* protest. She didn't say "I don't care if you don't like what I did - I'm coming back to the prison, and you can't stop me. We can take this up with the rest of the Council."

No, maybe that was because she still sees Rick as the implicit leader of the group, despite the fact that she was on the Council and he wasn't. Or maybe it was because when looking at her actions through the eyes of another, she understood that she crossed a line. I think the latter is more likely.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Rick definitely exiled her.

Carol definitely protested.

Just because they did not spell out the words doesn't mean it didn't happen. They did a lot of it with body languages, looks, and implications.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Of course Rick exiled her. I really don't see how that can be in question. 

He even told Maggie "I told her she couldn't come back"...or something like that.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Yes, clearly exiled.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Didn't he directly state that he would now allow her to return? In any case, it was quite clear to me. Which means, of course, that we will continue to argue about it for several more pages.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Didn't he directly state that he would now allow her to return? In any case, it was quite clear to me. Which means, of course, that we will continue to argue about it for several more pages.


LOL...too true!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> Didn't he directly state that he would now allow her to return?


No, he never changed his mind and told her she could return.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

scandia101 said:


> No, he never changed his mind and told her she could return.


I'm pretty sure that was a typo and now=not


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I'm pretty sure that was a typo and now=not


But it's more fun to take it at face value.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But it's more fun to take it at face value.


Yes, yes it is.
And with all of the varying thoughts on what happened, as wrong as most of you are , it's entirely possible that it was accurately typed.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> Yes, yes it is.
> And with all of the varying thoughts on what happened, as wrong as most of you are , it's entirely possible that it was accurately typed.


If I were taken at face value, my net worth would be subterranean....


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

They have killed off major players all the time. I would not be surprised if she is gone and we just don't see her again. Of course there is that spin off!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Put me in the camp that says Carol was clearly exiled. She knew Rick's mind was made up and from previous experience with him, she knew no amount of talking or protesting would get him to change his mind, so she just accepted it. Doesn't mean she liked it or agreed with it.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Put me in the camp that says Carol was clearly exiled. She knew Rick's mind was made up and from previous experience with him, she knew no amount of talking or protesting would get him to change his mind, so she just accepted it. Doesn't mean she liked it or agreed with it.


I suppose I should clarify my earlier comment. I think Rick certainly intended to exile her, but lacked the authority to do so, especially given how hands-off he had been since ending the Ricktatorship, and if Carol really felt like he was wrong and she was right, she could have pushed the issue at least enough to get back to the prison and take it before the other members of the Council. The fact that she didn't - and only half-heartedly tried to change his mind - indicates to me that she thinks she deserves to be exiled.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> ...The fact that she didn't - and only half-heartedly tried to change his mind - indicates to me that she thinks she deserves to be exiled.


That's the real crux of it and seems to be agreed to by Maggie and Herschel...we'll see about everybody else.

I was actually thinking this was some type of mid-season break cliff hanger epiose. I was glad to see that there is a new episode this week.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Herschel actually seemed shaken up to me after Rick told him (off screen) about Carol.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Third episode of sick people not properly securing themselves from each other, while located in the perfect security environment, a prison. Of course, we all knew what was going to happen inside the prison... like a slow motion train wreck coming.

Add me to the camp that thinks Carol was exiled. I don't really see it any other way. I don't necessarily thinks she believes she _deserves_ to be exiled so much as she thinks it's best for the group that she be exiled. Her previous behavior shows that she puts survival of the group above her own welfare. I think she understood Rick's logic that she had to go and she would not be accepted back at the prison. In her mind, she took one for the team.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

smbaker said:


> Add me to the camp that thinks Carol was exiled. I don't really see it any other way. I don't necessarily thinks she believes she _deserves_ to be exiled so much as she thinks it's best for the group that she be exiled. Her previous behavior shows that she puts survival of the group above her own welfare. I think she understood Rick's logic that she had to go and she would not be accepted back at the prison. In her mind, she took one for the team.


Exile is a punishment that must be ordered and enforced. Rick neither ordered her exile, nor was he likely to enforce it if she tried to come back.

Rick explained to her that she was basically an outcast. Even if she came back, she would be an outcast (if Tyreese did not kill her) after Rick told everyone what she did. She realized he was likely correct and decided not to come back.

Rick did not order her exile. He talked her into not coming back because he thought that was the best thing for her, and she appeared to agree.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Carol was exiled by Rick. Just rewatched the scene and confirmed it. If you missed it, you aren't paying attention and/or cannot read body language and understand implied words.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Zevida said:


> Carol was exiled by Rick. Just rewatched the scene and confirmed it. If you missed it, you aren't paying attention and/or cannot read body language and understand implied words.


Rick did not exile Carol. Rick did not order Carol into exile, nor did he indicate that he would prevent Carol from coming back. If you think he did, you are not paying attention and/or you have an overactive imagination.

Body language and implied words.  You seem to be confusing making someone feel unwelcome and unwanted with exiling them, which is a punishment that must be ordered and enforced.

If Carol really wanted to come back, all she would have to do is come back. Then she could defend herself from Tyreese and get a hearing before the committee.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I'm starting to feel claustrophobic with this show. I need to see what's happening in the rest of the world.


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## fallstreak (Nov 14, 2013)

Beryl said:


> Good point. They had a lot of supplies there. I'd think they'd have antibiotics and such as well. They even had a female doctor that must've gotten killed since I've not seen her.
> 
> Regarding Carol - I find her fascinating and agree that she has become a monster. I'm glad they added this to her otherwise boring (but endearing) character. I'm interested in how she and Daryl will play out. I think he was affected by the empathy she once showed him which, given his upbringing, must have been refreshing.


I agree. Carol is kinda boring, would love to see how their (daryl and her) love story will end.

and for god's sake why can't they just fix the fence?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

john4200 said:


> Rick did not exile Carol. Rick did not order Carol into exile, nor did he indicate that he would prevent Carol from coming back. If you think he did, you are not paying attention and/or you have an overactive imagination.


Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.


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## tripmac (Oct 4, 2004)

Bryanmc said:


> I'm starting to feel claustrophobic with this show. I need to see what's happening in the rest of the world.


I agree, I would like for them to get to Stone Mountain and look around.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

john4200 said:


> ...Rick did not order her exile. He talked her into not coming back because he thought that was the best thing for her, and she appeared to agree.


That is just symantics. You are just calling it something different than exile. Either way she was told to not come back and she complied (so far).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

fallstreak said:


> I agree. Carol is kinda boring, would love to see how their (daryl and her) love story will end.
> 
> and for god's sake why can't they just fix the fence?


Really? I was finding her kind of fun. Teaching the kids and flirting with Daryl. It seemed like she was starting to grow and was part of the community.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Really? I was finding her kind of fun. Teaching the kids and flirting with Daryl. It seemed like she was starting to grow and was part of the community.


Fun in a dangerous way, which I think is the whole point of the storyline and the reason why I think it is far from over.

I.e., they're not yet done having dangerous fun with her (hopefully ending in some form of redemption and reconciliation).


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I.e., they're not yet done having dangerous fun with her (hopefully ending in some form of redemption and reconciliation).


Sadly, redemption in a show like this is usually fatal. See: Andrea.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

betts4 said:


> Really? I was finding her kind of fun. Teaching the kids and flirting with Daryl. It seemed like she was starting to grow and was part of the community.


Agreed. She WAS boring until she became a loose cannon. I'm enjoying this new storyline for the character. It also might feel less claustrophobic if we follow her some. (Also, I'd like to find out who was on the other end of that CB radio.)

Flirting with Daryl seems to be a waste of time. After all of these months, he had not made a significant move after he found her in that cell - Season 3. Michonne needs to cut her loses and move on to Rick or even Hershel.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although the pushing could have been simple crowd dynamics, the kind that gets normal people killed...when people at the back of a crowd move forward, crushing the people in the front of the crowd.


IMO, the crowd was not big enough for that and there was a rhythm -- push, push, push. As someone mentioned, the posts should've been _deep_.



john4200 said:


> Rick did not exile Carol. Rick did not order Carol into exile, nor did he indicate that he would prevent Carol from coming back. If you think he did, you are not paying attention and/or you have an overactive imagination.
> 
> Body language and implied words.  You seem to be confusing making someone feel unwelcome and unwanted with exiling them, which is a punishment that must be ordered and enforced.
> 
> If Carol really wanted to come back, all she would have to do is come back. Then she could defend herself from Tyreese and get a hearing before the committee.


Which, judging from the reactions we've seen so far, she would lose.

When Rick said he _didn't trust her around his family_, he was saying he would actively campaign against her at such a council meeting. Keeping her from staying, not keeping her from returning. Even if Carol thinks she could convince the council otherwise, she shouldn't think so with Rick against her. If she somehow managed to win a council vote, that would create a "us or her" situation. Rick would leave taking his family and followers, splitting the group significantly.

I am still very interested to see Daryl's reaction, though


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Beryl said:


> Flirting with Daryl seems to be a waste of time. After all of these months, he had not made a significant move after he found her in that cell - Season 3. Michonne needs to cut her loses and move on to Rick or even Hershel.


I thought the flirting with Daryl was just for fun. Not really for an intimate relationship but more like what two characters do on Criminal Minds (Morgan and Garcia).


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Bryanmc said:


> I'm starting to feel claustrophobic with this show. I need to see what's happening in the rest of the world.


That's the beauty of the apocalypse--you have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world. Unless you start seeing planes fly over or get radio broadcasts, you're lost. Bad in some ways, good in others. At least there's no government telling you what you can and can't do. No Obamacare. 



heySkippy said:


> Sadly, redemption in a show like this is usually fatal. See: Andrea.


Can someone remind me what happened to Andrea? I forgot all about her.

I wonder what the average life span is for a woman in a car surviving the zombie apocalypse on her own? Maybe she should get some zombie companions like Michonne had--that seemed to work. I can't see Carol lasting on her own very long.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Can someone remind me what happened to Andrea? I forgot all about her.


In last season's finale, the Governor handcuffed her to a chair and then locked her in a room with someone who was dying. When the dying guy turned into a zombie, he came and ate Andrea before she could get herself free.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

pmyers said:


> That is just symantics. You are just calling it something different than exile. Either way she was told to not come back and she complied (so far).


:up:


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> In last season's finale, the Governor handcuffed her to a chair and then locked her in a room with someone who was dying. When the dying guy turned into a zombie, he came and ate Andrea before she could get herself free.


well, to add a little detail: he bit her a little before she killed him. Then when the gang came in to save her, all they could do is give her a gun so she would kill herself. They locked the door and then we all heard the gunshot.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> In last season's finale, the Governor handcuffed her to a chair and then locked her in a room with someone who was dying. When the dying guy turned into a zombie, he came and ate Andrea before she could get herself free.


Andrea was bitten by the Zombie. She shot herself, one would assume, in the head.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

pmyers said:


> That is just symantics. You are just calling it something different than exile. Either way she was told to not come back and she complied (so far).


The word is semantics.

Anyway, the part quoted above is wrong. Rick did not tell Carol "to not come back".


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Cearbhaill said:


> Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.


Of course, it is true because it is a statement of fact.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

He locked her out of the car and said he won't allow her there with his family. It's pretty clear to everyone but you.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm reminded of something my 10 year old told my 7 year old: If I say you win, will you shut up?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tlc said:


> Which, judging from the reactions we've seen so far, she would lose.
> 
> When Rick said he _didn't trust her around his family_, he was saying he would actively campaign against her at such a council meeting. Keeping her from staying, not keeping her from returning. Even if Carol thinks she could convince the council otherwise, she shouldn't think so with Rick against her. If she somehow managed to win a council vote, that would create a "us or her" situation. Rick would leave taking his family and followers, splitting the group significantly.


I agree. I think Carol probably realized this as well.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Zevida said:


> He locked her out of the car and said he won't allow her there with his family.


False.

You need to listen again. Or re-read my posts about it. He did not say he "won't allow her there with his family".


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I'm reminded of something my 10 year old told my 7 year old: If I say you win, will you shut up?


:up::up::up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> He locked her out of the car and said he won't allow her there with his family. It's pretty clear to everyone but you.


Surely you realize he'll never budge? Just give it up, and hope some day he and Ereth don't end up on opposite sides of an argument.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I'm reminded of something my 10 year old told my 7 year old: If I say you win, will you shut up?


Agreed. I had actually forgotten who/why I had him on ignore so recently took him off. Now I remember why. Problem solved (again).

I love a healthy debate, but he/she has proven themselves totally unwilling to accept anybody's ideas other than their's (unless it agrees with their's).


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I'm reminded of something my 10 year old told my 7 year old: If I say you win, will you shut up?


I'm going to guess the answer is no. He's one of those...


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Anubys said:


> well, to add a little detail: he bit her a little before she killed him. Then when the gang came in to save her, all they could do is give her a gun so she would kill herself. They locked the door and then we all heard the gunshot.


To add more detail: that was after she spent several minutes reminiscing instead of using the instrument the soon-to-be-walker provided her to free herself. She was almost free when she got bit so if she had concentrated on freeing herself, she would have survived.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Beryl said:


> To add more detail: that was after she spent several minutes reminiscing instead of using the instrument the soon-to-be-walker provided her to free herself. She was almost free when she got bit so if she had concentrated on freeing herself, she would have survived.


That was only because the writers wanted to create dramatic tension. Andrea was dying in that episode no matter what. That the writers made her seem stupid at the same time was probably unintentional.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

pmyers said:


> I love a healthy debate, but he/she has proven themselves totally unwilling to accept anybody's ideas other than their's (unless it agrees with their's).


Let's summarize.

I mentioned several facts from the conversation that Rick and Carol had, then explained why what happened was not Rick ordering Carol's exile.

pmyers and Zevida responded with incorrect statements about what was actually said, and then when I pointed out the factually incorrect statements, pmyers responds by saying that I cannot accept the ideas of others and he is therefore ignoring me. 

Well done, pmyers! :up:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

If only that's all it were.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> If only that's all it were.


Enlighten me.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Bryanmc said:


> I'm starting to feel claustrophobic with this show. I need to see what's happening in the rest of the world.


I hear ya. My favorite episodes are were we get to see what else is going on in the world, especially when they come across any survivors. I love hearing their stories of survival and also what they call "walkers".


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

john4200 said:


> Enlighten me.


There's no point- everyone is sick of hearing about it.
Please stop already.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I love hearing their stories of survival and also what they call "walkers".


A question just occurred to me.... Is there a reason nobody ever calls them zombies on the show? Is that term copyrighted by someone? Just curious.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Balzer said:


> A question just occurred to me.... Is there a reason nobody ever calls them zombies on the show? Is that term copyrighted by someone? Just curious.


Per the show creator: in this "world" the concept of a Zombie, has never existed. They have no prior knowlege of Zombies to go by.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Cearbhaill said:


> Please stop already.


I had stopped. I summarized the situation and was planning to be done with the debate. Then DevdogAZ and you posted about it.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Agreed. I had actually forgotten who/why I had him on ignore so recently took him off. Now I remember why. Problem solved (again).
> 
> I love a healthy debate, but he/she has proven themselves totally unwilling to accept anybody's ideas other than their's (unless it agrees with their's).


Ha...that dude's been on my IL for a loooong time...I certainly don't miss him


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Beryl said:


> To add more detail: that was after she spent several minutes reminiscing instead of using the instrument the soon-to-be-walker provided her to free herself. She was almost free when she got bit so if she had concentrated on freeing herself, she would have survived.


I was completely drawing a blank on this until this post--now I remember how she stupidly messed around instead of getting on with it. Thanks for the reminders.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Agreed. I had actually forgotten who/why I had him on ignore so recently took him off. Now I remember why. Problem solved (again).
> 
> I love a healthy debate, but he/she has proven themselves totally unwilling to accept anybody's ideas other than their's (unless it agrees with their's).


That's weird, I did the same thing as you. Maybe I thought I was missing a valid debate. He's back on the ignore list.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> I was completely drawing a blank on this until this post--now I remember how she stupidly messed around instead of getting on with it. Thanks for the reminders.


And she was stupidly messing around with perfectly manicured feet!


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