# NBC kills off Parks & Rec, 30 Rock and Community



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

All will receive shortened final season orders to wrap up the series.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...eBarUI:p=facebook-like&fb_source=home_oneline


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm okay with it. 5 seasons of PnR is more than could be hoped for given its ratings, even tho its one of if not the best 30 min comedy going.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Your thread title suggests that those shows had been canceled, but the linked article says that they will all likely be renewed.

How is that "killing them off"?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

They are giving them a FINAL shortened season. Probably because they decided they have stuff in place for the second part of the year.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Great news. Given the ratings, that's all that any fan could have hoped for. And since NBC has reportedly picked up at least five new comedies for next year, and may still pick up more, the speculation has been that they were going to run many more comedies next year and do them in shortened 13-episode seasons rather than doing full 22 episode seasons and then having to air reruns or go on hiatus, etc. This article seems to confirm that speculation, at least in part.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Yeah, bad headline for the thread.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I will be really sad to see Parks & Rec go, but I would rather it go out on top at five seasons than do what The Office did.

I gave up on 30 Rock already.

Community I seem to love when I'm watching, but I don't look forward to it the way I did in the first season.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Wow. Killing off three established shows seems a little extreme. I know the ratings weren't there, but jeez.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

That article slightly contradicts what was reported yesterday by tvline.com (Michael Ausiello's website, who is usually pretty good with his insider info). According to tvline, _30 Rock_ is coming back for its 7th and final season, but while _Community_ and _P&R_ are also coming back to shortened seasons, they are not necessarily going to be their final seasons.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

I will give NBC this - They have allowed a couple shows to end gracefully recently (Like Chuck). Not like Fox did with Firefly. BIHF.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> That article slightly contradicts what was reported yesterday by tvline.com (Michael Ausiello's website, who is usually pretty good with his insider info). According to tvline, _30 Rock_ is coming back for its 7th and final season, but while _Community_ and _P&R_ are also coming back to shortened seasons, they are not necessarily going to be their final seasons.


Actually, the article in the OP doesn't really say anything official about P&R or Community. It says that 30 Rock will likely have a shortened final season, and then the stuff about P&R and Community is pure speculation.

Also, I just read about a couple other comedy pickups by NBC, bringing their total to six new comedies. In order to get that many new comedies on the air, they're either going to be expanding their comedy blocks and/or airing shortened seasons of most of their comedies.

I wonder what that means for Whitney and Up All Night. Chelsea is obviously done.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Your headline is misleading at best, and quite possibly wrong.

What makes people create a thread titled so intentionally wrong? I just don't understand it. 

Think I'm overreacting? Did a single one of you read this and NOT think, "Oh geez, xxx has been cancelled".


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Your headline is misleading at best, and quite possibly wrong.
> 
> What makes people create a thread titled so intentionally wrong? I just don't understand it.
> 
> Think I'm overreacting? Did a single one of you read this and NOT think, "Oh geez, xxx has been cancelled".


get over it. In my opinion, they ARE killing them off, of the reports are true. If you announce that you are proceeding with a shortened season that will be the final season, you're killing it off. It's not a non-renewal, and it's not a full renewal.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Also, I just read about a couple other comedy pickups by NBC, bringing their total to six new comedies. In order to get that many new comedies on the air, they're either going to be expanding their comedy blocks and/or airing shortened seasons of most of their comedies.


 There are five listed in the article. That would bring the total to 7.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

It's not the end of the world, but I also thought NBC had announced the shows listed in the thread title were not coming back next season at all, which would have been surprising. Instead, they didn't announce anything, an there is a report of rumors that the shows will come back for 13 episodes. (which is 2 seasons worth of shows if they were British shows. )


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

NBC's upfront presentation is Monday. We'll know then. Until that time, it's all speculation.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> get over it. In my opinion, they ARE killing them off, of the reports are true. If you announce that you are proceeding with a shortened season that will be the final season, you're killing it off. It's not a non-renewal, and it's not a full renewal.


Except that NBC has not announced anything. The article you posted was reporting on what the _rumors_ are of what NBC will announce next Monday.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> There are five listed in the article. That would bring the total to 7.


I wasn't referring to that article. I was referring to previous reports that had listed four. That article includes one that wasn't in the initial reports, and then since then they've announced a sixth pickup entitled "Guys with Kids."


cmontyburns said:


> NBC's upfront presentation is Monday. We'll know then. Until that time, it's all speculation.


They'll be doing a media conference call on Sunday, so we'll know then at the latest, but it's very possible there will be official announcements on some of these things sooner than that.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

They might not be highly rated, but a new show would arguably be worse off without something for audiences to transition to.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

We'll miss Community a little bit as it's a fun diversion, but we don't watch the other two.

Hopefully they can find some funny replacements.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> get over it. In my opinion, they ARE killing them off, of the reports are true. If you announce that you are proceeding with a shortened season that will be the final season, you're killing it off. It's not a non-renewal, and it's not a full renewal.


You need reading/writing comprehension.

Killing them off would be cancelling/not renewing them THIS season.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

I don't give a crap about the others, but I am crushed over Parks and Rec.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> In my opinion, they ARE killing them off, if the reports are true.


And now you even qualify it with "if the reports are true".

There were lots of ways to create this thread, but your way was wrong. It's not that I need to get over it, it's not that big a deal. It's just my feeble attempt at hoping people will strive to create better titles, when they see the effects of a poorly created one.

In other news, someone was wrong on the Internet today, so I'm off to correct them.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

If true, I'm ok with it I guess. I don't watch P&R, but I do watch the other two. 30 Rock, to me is out of ideas, so a graceful exit is good. Despite all the knocking I do on Community I will really miss that, and also glad that it will get a nice sendoff. On the other hand, I have to question their choices for new sitcoms. Anne Heche? Matthew Perry? Bill Pulliman? What have they done on TV that has been the least bit successful recently? So rather than find some fresh new talent, they are recycling has beens and never was. I thought Whitney was a good idea because they brought in someone who was fresh and different. But I guess that's kind of normal for the way TV is, the networks are more likely to take a risk on shows with a big "name".


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'll miss Community.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I am so confused. Like others, I will wait for the upfronts next week. I never got past the pilot on 30 Rock. I did not get past the pilot on Parks and Rec. Community is past its freshness date. (Weirdly, an episode has been nominated for the Hugo Awards, an annual big SF award.)


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I'll miss Community.


You mean, after next season, right? (If the OP's rumors are to be believed)


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

This just in - NBC is going to cancel every show currently on its network!!

Well, not right now, but eventually. 

Yeah, the wording of the thread title seems to suggest an immediate action, as opposed to a future action.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

sieglinde said:


> I am so confused. Like others, I will wait for the upfronts next week. I never got past the pilot on 30 Rock. I did not get past the pilot on Parks and Rec. Community is past its freshness date. (Weirdly, an episode has been nominated for the Hugo Awards, an annual big SF award.)


You should give P&R another try. Start with season 2 and watch a few episodes. It was a thousand times better than season 1. I also gave up after the pilot, but tried a few episodes in season 2 and now I think it's the best comedy on TV bar none.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> This just in - NBC is going to cancel every show currently on its network!!
> 
> Well, not right now, but eventually.
> 
> Yeah, the wording of the thread title seems to suggest an immediate action, as opposed to a future action.


That's exactly what I was thinking. The OP feels that the title is justified because they are killing them off, just not right now, and we don't know when because there is just speculation...

This just in: "We are all dying!" some day.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It feels like P&R is coming to a natural ending anyway -- Lesile wins the election, Ann gets back together with Chris.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I am glad they are giving them all a chance to wrap things up. 30 Rock isn't what it once was but I still enjoy it and I will hang in there until the bitter end. 

Community and Parks and Rec are still fantastic shows. Maybe Netflix will be interested? They seem to be trying hard to transition something from network TV to their service. I think either show would fit in nicely.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I love all three of these shows. Gonna miss them when they are gone.
But at least they know they are leaving, and hopefully will write some great final episodes.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Your headline is misleading at best, and quite possibly wrong.
> 
> What makes people create a thread titled so intentionally wrong? I just don't understand it.
> 
> Think I'm overreacting? Did a single one of you read this and NOT think, "Oh geez, xxx has been cancelled".


That is how I read it and it made me sad. When I realized the truth it made me happy. For NBC to try and get into the mix with the other nets they have to end this large block of niche shows. I love them all so this is good. The creative teams beyond all three shows are so good that they will have 13 amazing episodes. When parks and rec did 13 episodes last year starting in spring it was one of the best sitcom seasons in the history of tv


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I don't give a crap about any of them since I can't stand any of them...


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I don't give a crap about any of them since I can't stand any of them...


Rules for Posting to the TV Talk Area

Specifically


Justapixel said:


> *Dont thread crap.*
> Thread crapping means posting negative comments in threads created by fans of a show, simply to anger them. This does not mean you cannot be critical of a show, but it must be constructive criticism.
> 
> Examples: Posting, Lost sucks, and anybody who watches it has lost their mind is considered thread-crapping. Posting, I am finding Lost frustrating because they are stretching out the story line, and I dont enjoy the backstories is legitimate.
> ...


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm just glad to get some more Community after this season. I love that show!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Crow159 said:


> Rules for Posting to the TV Talk Area
> 
> Specifically


oooooh....I see the thread-crapping police are out in force today...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I don't give a crap about any of them since I can't stand any of them...


Thanks Alfer.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

30 Rock has been officially renewed for 13 eps in a 7th and final season, which is all the article in the OP was really reporting. No word on Parks or Community.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-a...c-renews-30-rock-for-seventh-and-final-season


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

DreadPirateRob said:


> 30 Rock has been officially renewed for 13 eps (...)


Wow---if that's "killing off", then what did FOX do to _Alcatraz_?


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

As stellar as Parks and Recs is, I cant believe they're canceling it. Its been one of the strongest sitcoms writing wise since very early on. Maybe Netflix or TBS will snatch it up. Its a shame to see a cast like that break up.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> As stellar as Parks and Recs is, I cant believe they're canceling it.


No legitimate source has said they're canceling Parks and Rec.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

KungFuCow said:


> As stellar as Parks and Recs is, I cant believe they're canceling it.


Why do you think they're canceling it?


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Why do you think they're canceling it?


Because of the misleading thread title.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Community officially renewed for a 4th season of 13 episodes. Conspicuously, it was *not* announced that it will be the final season. So, no, this is *not* a cancellation.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/nbc-renews-community-for-season-4

This has been NBC's m.o. of late with critically loved but ratings challenged shows (like _Chuck_), and it makes sense when you are in their position. Renew the shows for 13 eps, and leave it open for a back order of 9 more if they perform better than expected, or more likely nothing else does better. They are leaving their options open.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

No word yet on _Parks_, but I'd be shocked if it did not get the exact same pickup as _Community_. If NBC can't get ratings, then it at least needs shows with buzz, and those two are the most critically acclaimed shows that it has.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Parks and Rec just continues to get better. I'll be pissed if it's cut short.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> No word yet on Parks, but I'd be shocked if it did not get the exact same pickup as Community. If NBC can't get ratings, then it at least needs shows with buzz, and those two are the most critically acclaimed shows that it has.


Not to mention that Parks has better ratings than Community, so it's a virtual lock that Parks will be back.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Not to mention that Parks has better ratings than Community, so it's a virtual lock that Parks will be back.


It's not quite that simple. There's also the licensing fee to consider.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

sieglinde said:


> I am so confused. Like others, I will wait for the upfronts next week. I never got past the pilot on 30 Rock. I did not get past the pilot on Parks and Rec. Community is past its freshness date. (Weirdly, an episode has been nominated for the Hugo Awards, an annual big SF award.)


The pilots were pretty bad. 30 Rock in particular. But they both improved slowly and got good. 30 Rock may be running out of steam but watch them on Netflix or something. They are good overall.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> The pilots were pretty bad. 30 Rock in particular. But they both improved slowly and got good. 30 Rock may be running out of steam but watch them on Netflix or something. They are good overall.


If you thought the 30 Rock pilot was bad you should have seen the pre-aired pilot. Rachael Dratch in the Jenna role. It was *horrible*.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

TheMerk said:


> If you thought the 30 Rock pilot was bad you should have seen the pre-aired pilot. Rachael Dratch in the Jenna role. It was *horrible*.


Both versions were terrible. I only started watching 30 Rock much later because of all the good buzz. I don't think I would have it just based on the pilot.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

TheMerk said:


> If you thought the 30 Rock pilot was bad you should have seen the pre-aired pilot. Rachael Dratch in the Jenna role. It was *horrible*.


Is that available in the cloud somewhere? I'd love to see it.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> Is that available in the cloud somewhere? I'd love to see it.


TVTorrents has it.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Netflix has Parks and Recreation on DVD and streaming.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Not to change topics, but Parks and Rec is completely different now than it was when it started. They really tweaked it a lot and now it is up there as one of the best shows on TV. Ron Swanson is simply hilarious.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

nickels said:


> Not to change topics, but Parks and Rec is completely different now than it was when it started. They really tweaked it a lot and now it is up there as one of the best shows on TV. Ron Swanson is simply hilarious.


Well, it's largely the same now as it was in Season 2, going forward. It's definitely been tweaked, but that was largely from S1--> S2. They realized that Leslie Knope was a far better and funnier character when she was super-competent than in S1 when she was Michael Scott-esque.

That's the only major change in the show. The characters have evolved over time, but nothing jarring. The creator/show-runner Mike Shur is a big fan of The Wire, and he doesn't like the status quo, so they will continue to evolve and move forward.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

As expected, _Parks & Rec_ gets the same 13-ep pickup as _Community_, with nothing being said about it being the final season. Can we change the thread title now?

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/nbc-renews-parks-and-recreation-for-season-5


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

How soon before the "They can't cancel _Community_ or _Parks & Recreation_ after next season if there are only 13 episodes each - they'll only have 84 and 81 (i.e. not the 100 you 'need' for syndication) episodes!" campaigns begin?


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Can we *delete* the thread title now?


FYP


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Parks and Rec was simply blah until they brought in Rob Lowe and...I'm blanking on his name. The last few seasons have been magic.

And even Tiny Fey admits the 30 Rock pilot wasn't very good.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Well, it's largely the same now as it was in Season 2, going forward. It's definitely been tweaked, but that was largely from S1--> S2. They realized that Leslie Knope was a far better and funnier character when she was super-competent than in S1 when she was Michael Scott-esque.
> 
> That's the only major change in the show. The characters have evolved over time, but nothing jarring. The creator/show-runner Mike Shur is a big fan of The Wire, and he doesn't like the status quo, so they will continue to evolve and move forward.


They also got away from the single-note story arc of the park she was trying to build and made the story lines more flexible, so we can get Leslie and characters into a lot of different things. Open it up for better comedy.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

YCantAngieRead said:


> Parks and Rec was simply blah until they brought in Rob Lowe and...I'm blanking on his name. The last few seasons have been magic.


I disagree, at least somewhat. Parks was astoundingly good pretty much from the minute S2 started, and Chris & Ben didn't come in until the end of S2 (second to last ep or thereabouts).

The first season _was_ dreadful, but thankfully it was only 6 eps or so, and I only stuck with it because the creators and the cast were so good that it had to get better. And I'm glad I did. S2/S3 is probably the strongest consecutive seasons that a sitcom has ever put together, and while I don't think S4 was quite as good, it was still better than just about everything else on TV.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> They also got away from the single-note story arc of the park she was trying to build and made the story lines more flexible, so we can get Leslie and characters into a lot of different things. Open it up for better comedy.


It was only a single-note arc because the first season only lasted for 6 eps. The arc was no more or less short (or single-note) than any other arc the show has done, but since it took the entire (abbreviated) first season and the first couple of eps from the second season, it seemed longer than it was. Heck, this season had one main arc that lasted for the entire season.

No, the only real difference is that they fundamentally changed Leslie. Pretty much everything else you can chalk up to getting to know the characters as they got more and more screen time.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> As expected, _Parks & Rec_ gets the same 13-ep pickup as _Community_, with nothing being said about it being the final season. Can we change the thread title now?
> 
> http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/nbc-renews-parks-and-recreation-for-season-5


Correction - the Parks & Rec pickup is for a *full* 22-ep season! Woot!

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/nbc-renews-parks-and-recreation-for-season-5


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## max99 (May 23, 2004)

It has changed to a full 22 episodes for Parks and Rec.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Correction - the Parks & Rec pickup is for a *full* 22-ep season! Woot!
> 
> http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/nbc-renews-parks-and-recreation-for-season-5





max99 said:


> It has changed to a full 22 episodes for Parks and Rec.


So what you're saying is it was killed off. Slow Death


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

_Extremely _slow.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Not dead yet.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

Imagine how many episodes would they have ordered if they hadn't killed it off!


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

nickels said:


> Not to change topics, but Parks and Rec is completely different now than it was when it started. They really tweaked it a lot and now it is up there as one of the best shows on TV. Ron Swanson is simply hilarious.


I agree... This show has been great. Somewhere towards the end of the second season I got tired of it, though I kept recording and saved up about a year and a half of episodes. A couple of months ago I started watching them all (I'm caught up now) and it has been fantastic.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

YESSSS!!!

Still the last season, though?


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

I agree, NBC is doing the excat opposite of "killing off" these shows. They announced a RENEWAL if the shows for the next season. They have ordered 13 episodes each, but that doesn't mean it's being killed off. I'm sure they have the option for a pickup on the back 9.

For Chuck's 4th season, (I think), NBC renewed for 13 episodes, then ordered an additional 11 before midseason.

Thread title fail.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Why doesn't network television understand that 13 episodes is pretty much ideal for a quality season? Anything over that is filling in story lines with ridiculous plots and it ruins the quality of the show. I've never watched P&R but I like 30 Rock and Community (although I won't necessarily be sad when they're gone).

I readily admit that network TV can't compete with cable networks when it comes to what they can get past standards & practices, but the best thing cable TV has come up with is the 13-episode season.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

YCantAngieRead said:


> YESSSS!!!
> 
> Still the last season, though?


Other than the OP's erroneous thread title, I haven't seen anything suggesting it the last season for Parks & Rec.



Fleegle said:


> I agree, NBC is doing the excat opposite of "killing off" these shows. They announced a RENEWAL if the shows for the next season. They have ordered 13 episodes each, but that doesn't mean it's being killed off. I'm sure they have the option for a pickup on the back 9.
> 
> For Chuck's 4th season, (I think), NBC renewed for 13 episodes, then ordered an additional 11 before midseason.
> 
> Thread title fail.


As noted earlier, Parks & Rec has been picked up for a full 22 episodes. Rumors of its demise have been completely imagined by the OP.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Correction - the Parks & Rec pickup is for a *full* 22-ep season! Woot!
> 
> http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/nbc-renews-parks-and-recreation-for-season-5


Somehow, I think we are just missing a Miracle Max quote here. Talking about a not fully dead show and posts by the dread pirate himself.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> How soon before the "They can't cancel _Community_ or _Parks & Recreation_ after next season if there are only 13 episodes each - they'll only have 84 and 81 (i.e. not the 100 you 'need' for syndication) episodes!" campaigns begin?


Now that P&R has been picked up for 22 episodes instead of 13, that would give it 90 - add "plenty for syndication, plus it's a multiple of 5 which makes it easier to sell internationally" to the rumored reasons it wouldn't go past next season...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Sparty99 said:


> Why doesn't network television understand that 13 episodes is pretty much ideal for a quality season?


I disagree with this *UNLESS* you make (at least) 2 shows per year for each timeslot (+ specials/awards shows/etc.)

In other words, if we went down to 13 episodes being typical (instead of low 20s-24), we'd have even MORE reruns of shows.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Sparty99 said:


> Why doesn't network television understand that 13 episodes is pretty much ideal for a quality season? Anything over that is filling in story lines with ridiculous plots and it ruins the quality of the show. I've never watched P&R but I like 30 Rock and Community (although I won't necessarily be sad when they're gone).
> 
> I readily admit that network TV can't compete with cable networks when it comes to what they can get past standards & practices, but the best thing cable TV has come up with is the 13-episode season.


It's all about the money. Network TV has figured out that 22 episodes is the financial sweet spot. More episodes and the cast/crew feel overworked and the license fees are excessive. Fewer episodes and the network isn't getting its money's worth and it doesn't have enough content to fill its timeslots. Also, it's much cheaper to produce 22 episodes of one show per year than it is to produce 13 episodes each of two shows.

Remember, the network doesn't really care that much about whether the story/plot is perfect. If there are some filler episodes, that's no big deal. It's all about the money, and the advertisers pay just as much for filler episodes as they do for substantive episodes.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Somehow, I think we are just missing a Miracle Max quote here. Talking about a not fully dead show and posts by the dread pirate himself.


They're not even mostly dead.

How's that?


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

YCantAngieRead said:


> YESSSS!!!
> 
> Still the last season, though?


Nope. At least, not for Community or Parks & Rec. (It will be 30 Rock's last season, however).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> They're not even mostly dead.
> 
> How's that?


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

It's time for 30 Rock. I love that show, but I don't have a problem with that.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

This is indeed the most misleadingly titled thread ever.

So, *NONE* of the shows that the thread title says are being "killed off" are canceled, and all are, in fact, renewed for next year.

Nuts.

When this thread first appeared, my thought was, "If NBC is killing these shows and *keeping* The Office (which, sadly, has clearly jumped the shark) they're beyond insane, and deserve any ratings hit they get.

Of course, it turns out, that thought is moot...

(All that is a round-about way of saying, "why don't we rename this thread now?")


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> (All that is a round-about way of saying, "why don't we rename this thread now?")


Because the comedy value is awesome.

If the thread _does_ get renamed though, it should just be to add a prefix like "NOT REALLY: "


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

It's not officially the last season of 30 Rock either.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/nbc-will-air-full-season-of-the-office.html

"What's more, Greenblatt said he's not ready to say it's over for 30 Rock just yet, either. "I now that's the speculation that's been out there, but it is not yet official," he said."


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Kill off _30 Rock_, and bring back _Studio 60_


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Since they are relegating community to Friday nights, that gives the thread title a little more veracity. But the title still sucks.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

I suspect next season may be the next for the Office. I'm too lazy to go back through-is it 22 episodes?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

YCantAngieRead said:


> I suspect *next* season may be the *next* for the Office.


I agree


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

I are good with werds.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> It's all about the money. Network TV has figured out that 22 episodes is the financial sweet spot. More episodes and the cast/crew feel overworked and the license fees are excessive. Fewer episodes and the network isn't getting its money's worth and it doesn't have enough content to fill its timeslots. Also, it's much cheaper to produce 22 episodes of one show per year than it is to produce 13 episodes each of two shows.
> 
> Remember, the network doesn't really care that much about whether the story/plot is perfect. If there are some filler episodes, that's no big deal. It's all about the money, and the advertisers pay just as much for filler episodes as they do for substantive episodes.


Problem is quality suffers and their audience shrinks. It is very short term results oriented thinking. It may cost more to create two 13 episode seasons but then they might not bleed massive viewers from one season to the next because of the amount of lower quality full episodes.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

tiams said:


> Since they are relegating community to Friday nights, that gives the thread title a little more veracity. But the title still sucks.


Disagree. Networks have started to realize over the last two years there is money to be made on Fridays.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

marksman said:


> Disagree. Networks have started to realize over the last two years there is money to be made on Fridays.


Particularly with a fanbase as small and as loyal as that of _Community_. It gets pretty much the same numbers week in/week out, and will likely do the same numbers on Friday as it did on Thursday.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Particularly with a fanbase as small and as loyal as that of _Community_. It gets pretty much the same numbers week in/week out, and will likely do the same numbers on Friday as it did on Thursday.


I think it could go either way.

On the one hand, I'd say that Community's core fanbase are the kind of people who would not be home on Friday nights.

On the other hand, that same core fanbase probably has a disproportionately high concentration of DVR-users/timeshifters.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

busyba said:


> I think it could go either way.
> 
> On the one hand, I'd say that Community's core fanbase are the kind of people who would not be home on Friday nights.
> 
> On the other hand, that same core fanbase probably has a disproportionately high concentration of DVR-users/timeshifters.


This.

I thought I read somewhere that Community had one of the highest percentages of being watched via DVR. Unfortunately, that doesn't account for ratings, but it's still being viewed, just not by people that matter.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Haven't "they" figured out some way to make DVR viewings count to some extent?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

busyba said:


> Haven't "they" figured out some way to make DVR viewings count to some extent?


Well they do compile the stats, but I guess as long as the ability to skip ads is available, then the value of watching on the DVR is diminished greatly. And as others have said, for certain types of ads, like movie premiers, it is important that they be viewed that night. Watching a movie ad on a Tuesday for a movie that opened the previous Friday, is next to worthless for the advertiser.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> Haven't "they" figured out some way to make DVR viewings count to some extent?


The most important ratings that everyone sees and that make the most impact on a show's success are the "overnights," which come out the next morning after a show airs, and include ratings for live viewing, plus any DVR watching up until 2 am.

There are ratings for "Live + 7" which include the regular ratings plus all viewings via DVR within the next seven days after the original airing. However, these ratings usually come out about three weeks after the original airing, and there are serious questions about whether the advertisers are willing to pay for those extra viewers that are likely skipping the ads. So yes, they have figured out how to count DVR viewers, but whether those viewings count is a completely different story.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Ok, so if they are counting DVR viewers in the overnights, then that might make the impact of the move to Friday slightly less bad.

I know that if _I_ was still young enough to be out partying on a Friday night, I would totally watch Community on my TiVo before going to bed.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

marksman said:


> Problem is quality suffers and their audience shrinks. It is very short term results oriented thinking. It may cost more to create two 13 episode seasons but then they might not bleed massive viewers from one season to the next because of the amount of lower quality full episodes.


So take all of the crap on TV now and double or triple it. Because all of those additional shows that will be needed to fill out a season of 39 weeks will be shows that were deemed not good enough to air now. That's saying something given they were deemed worse than shows like Cavemen and Work It.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Community consistently draws a 1.3 - 1.7 in the desired demo. If they can do that on Friday, it would be just about the highest rated show from any network on that night. That should be enough to keep it around for another season. 

Now, if it drops lower than that - say into the sub 1.0 range - then it is done.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

I'm also looking forward to the 66th straight year of NBC killing off Meet the Press.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

It's Official: '30 Rock' Will End Its Run Next Season


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> Its Official: *TGS* Will End Its Run Next Season


FYP.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Didn't Community pull similar ratings as Whitney when they were in the same time slot? I'm confused about why Whitney got a full 22 episode order and Community only got 13. Let's hope it doesn't lose its audience in the move to Fridays an NBC decides to order the back 9.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> Didn't Community pull similar ratings as Whitney when they were in the same time slot? I'm confused about why Whitney got a full 22 episode order and Community only got 13. Let's hope it doesn't lose its audience in the move to Fridays an NBC decides to order the back 9.


If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Community has had three seasons to catch on and hasn't really ever broken out. Meanwhile, Whitney did respectable this year without any real help from lead in or promotions, and they're probably hoping that if they can improve the overall network ratings this season with promotions during the Olympics, during SNF, and with new shows that get buzz, then that will spill over into lifting Whitney's ratings as well.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

lambertman said:


> I'm also looking forward to the 66th straight year of NBC killing off Meet the Press.


I heard it's only getting a 52-episode order this season.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Meanwhile, Whitney did respectable this year *without any real help from* lead in or *promotions*


lol, wut???

Were you in hibernation between June and September 2011?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> lol, wut???
> 
> Were you in hibernation between June and September 2011?


Apparently. But even still, I think it's more telling with how a show does several weeks after its premiere, and then later in midseason when it switches timeslots. Whitney moved to Wednesdays at 8/7 and had no lead in and by then was not getting any promotion, and it still maintained roughly the same ratings it was getting when it followed The Office in the fall. That shows it was a decent self starter, and IMO, that's what got it renewed.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

busyba said:


> lol, wut???
> 
> Were you in hibernation between June and September 2011?


That does remind me about the non-stop promotion for her show. I heard commercials for it on the radio constantly.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Apparently. But even still, I think it's more telling with how a show does several weeks after its premiere, and then later in midseason when it switches timeslots. Whitney moved to Wednesdays at 8/7 and had no lead in and by then was not getting any promotion, and it still maintained roughly the same ratings it was getting when it followed The Office in the fall. That shows it was a decent self starter, and IMO, that's what got it renewed.


I thought when Whitney was getting better ratings than Community, then when it was moved to Community's slot, its ratings dropped to around where Community was holding steady...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> I thought when Whitney was getting better ratings than Community, then when it was moved to Community's slot, its ratings dropped to around where Community was holding steady...


I may be wrong, but I don't remember Whitney ever airing in the Thursday 8/7 timeslot. It started out in the fall in the Thursday 9:30/8:30 slot following The Office, and it premiered with over 3.0 (18-49) but by the end of the fall season, the ratings were hovering just under 2.0. At midseason, the timeslot was switched to Wednesday 8/7 where it spent the rest of the season and averaged about 1.7, which is pretty respectable given the lack of lead in and the ratings that other shows on NBC got.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Community has had three seasons to catch on and hasn't really ever broken out. Meanwhile, Whitney did respectable this year without any real help from lead in or promotions, and they're probably hoping that if they can improve the overall network ratings this season with promotions during the Olympics, during SNF, and with new shows that get buzz, then that will spill over into lifting Whitney's ratings as well.


I'd say that too, but even more that it's because NBC does not own Community, but it does own Whitney.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> Your thread title suggests that those shows had been canceled, but the linked article says that they will all likely be renewed.
> 
> How is that "killing them off"?


Yeah. I thought you were saying that Parks and Rec had been canceled! I was about to be really disappointed. Glad it wasn't the case. That's one of the funniest shows on TV IMO.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Well they do compile the stats, but I guess as long as the ability to skip ads is available, then the value of watching on the DVR is diminished greatly.


You think that, I think that, but based upon actual scientific studies, some ridiculously huge percentage of DVR users DO NOT SKIP ADS.
[citation needed on myself]


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> So take all of the crap on TV now and double or triple it. Because all of those additional shows that will be needed to fill out a season of 39 weeks will be shows that were deemed not good enough to air now. That's saying something given they were deemed worse than shows like Cavemen and Work It.


So you assume every canceled show or show that was not picked up was bad?

I realize that the networks air some awful shows but I think shorter seasons would raise the overall quality of network tv from where it is now. Well over one hundred pilots are created every year and then some people seem to randomly pick what they think is good but refuse to support or show any confidence in.

Shorter cycles make all these decisions easier, from giving new shows a full 13 episode run to canceling them or renewing them.

I don't see anything advantageous about 22 episode seasons. Seasons used to be 39 episodes at one time. I could make a large list of high quality shows and most would be 13 or less episodes. Parks and Rec had one of the best seasons of any sitcom ever last year and it was 13 episodes long.

Like I said so many pilots are being made it would not actually be that much harder to fill out their schedules. Especially if they sized up and ran shows for their entire runs to see what happens. Some shows improve dramatically over their first 6 plus episodes. Plus with a schedule designed for shorter seasons it is less of a risk to commit a show for 13 weeks.

Also shorter seasons would allow more consecutive runs of shows which I think is a problem for the networks and all their breaks.

I just don't see any evidence the current model is working for them other than their salespeople are still able to squeeze blood from large corporate stones.

Big bang and modern family get good ratings. Why not make 35 episodes each a year and really bring in the money. New episodes of those shows make more money than reruns of other shows. I will admit sitcoms and dramas are different. There is more leeway with sitcoms. I see no benefit in dramas going more than thirteen episodes a season but don't believe me just look at how cable who almost only has 10-13 episodes a season actually grow audiences and build up shows.

One other thing is because people talk about the relatively low cost of repeats fine, 13 episode seasons allow you to repeat entire previous seasons in order to build up new viewers for the next season. It used to be normal for reruns to go in order and complete a whole season. Now with special programming and summer programming I think few if any shows get full reruns, which is especially bad for serialized shows.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

marksman said:


> So you assume every canceled show or show that was not picked up was bad?
> 
> I realize that the networks air some awful shows but I think shorter seasons would raise the overall quality of network tv from where it is now. Well over one hundred pilots are created every year and then some people seem to randomly pick what they think is good but refuse to support or show any confidence in.
> 
> ...


I think someone pointed it out that it's more expensive to run TWO 13 episode shows than one 22 episode show, and that's why it's not done the frequently. That said, I agree with all your points, and I'd be fine with having say 3 seasons, one from Sept to November, one from Jan to March and another from April to early June of 13 episode runs of all shows. Yeah I know post Memorial Day is already considered summer season, but is it really? I don't know. At least on the east coast, most schools are still open in June, so vacations are usually reserved for later late June before camps start. I think it would be fun to have all those options, but it would give me adjita (or however you spell that) juggling all these shows withing my 50 show SP limit


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> You think that, I think that, but based upon actual scientific studies, some ridiculously huge percentage of DVR users DO NOT SKIP ADS.
> [citation needed on myself]


I know that, but advertisers seem to be skittish about it, and networks have been trying for years to get rid of that function from DVRs (heck they even tried to do it from VCRs back in the day). On DirecTV NBC and ABC both have On Demand streaming of shows a little bit after they are shown live....and they forced DirecTV to disable 30 second skip for those shows.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Donald Glover says in his new song, "I hope the show gets canceled"

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/183229/childish-gambino-streams-new-track-we-aint-them/


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

No other place to post this:

http://drunkronswanson.com/


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