# Battlestar Galactica 2/10/2006 (S02E16) "Sacrifice"



## DVC California (Jun 4, 2004)

Wow - I was able to start this 3 hours AFTER the east coast broadcast. Where's everyone...watching the Olympics or something?



Spoiler



I thought this was a _*fair*_ episode.

I don't think having Starbuck accidentally shoot Lee was in character, especially after the big deal they made of how good a markman she was in the "Scar" episode.

I'm ambivalent about them killing off Billy. I never really cared about his character until this episode. They finally let him show some backbone and he gets shot protecting a girl who doesn't love him. Meh.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I was just about to post a thread...decided to refresh one more time because I could not believe no thread yet!

that's more like it...good story, good acting, pertinent to current events...and a heck of a surprise...I thought for sure Billy would be the next president...I wonder if he has to leave the show because of a different acting commitment and the writers HAD to write him out...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DVC California said:


> Wow - I was able to start this 3 hours AFTER the east coast broadcast. Where's everyone...watching the Olympics or something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


by the way...you don't need to add a spoiler tag to discuss this ep...if the title and date are in the thread title, spoilers about this ep are ok...

welcome to the forum!


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

Every time I start a thread someone does at the same time, so I waited! I really liked Billy I'm sad to see him gone. He is just so cute with his blue eyes and freckles. Still I wasn't all emotional or anything, not sure why it usually doesn't take much. 

Ellen Tigh (sp) is just an idiot. The best thing she could have done was listen to Lee but the second best thing was to not let them know who she was. 

Emily


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## JediCowboyD (Feb 21, 2002)

Billy, Don't Be a Hero.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I knew Billy was going to die before -- pissed me off still that he actually did. 

Sci Mind Numbing Friday complete.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

Well, Billy's number has been up since "Home pt. 1."

As for Starbuck's marksmanship, don't forget she missed Zarek in the prison ship episode. She's pretty good at hitting targets, not so much at people (or at least the *right* people).

And Ellen's just useless - not only did she screw things up by announcing how valuable a hostage she was, she also gave Starbuck away! Saul'd be better off had Adama let them shoot her...


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

emandbri said:


> Ellen Tigh (sp) is just an idiot. The best thing she could have done was listen to Lee but the second best thing was to not let them know who she was.
> Emily


I thought it was great when they were head to the bathroom and she was ready to get busy with him. She is a real peice of nothing. Too bad she didn't get killed.

This show was a ton better then last week. And only one use of Frack half way in.


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

I liked this episode a lot. I think seeing people fight it out based on confusion over what sort of threat the cylons pose is what BSG should be about. I would have preferred a story arc for the series where we learn a little bit every once in awhile about the cylons, and what we learn makes previous episodes make more sense. I'm not sure that is what we are going to get, so an episode which makes use of the cylon threat without telling us anything at all about the cylons is good too.


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## mikeinla (Jun 6, 2004)

Does anybody else think Ellen Tighe is a Cylon? I do...the ditzy stuff is an act.

A Cylon wife for the Galactica XO?

Great plot line there...


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

When the do an autopsy I assume they can tell if it was a cylon or human? I always thought Billy was a cylon.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jcondon said:


> When the do an autopsy I assume they can tell if it was a cylon or human? I always thought Billy was a cylon.


I think they said they have to cremate to know the difference...Ellen is too old to be a cylon...


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

:up: Pretty good episode. I was surprised Billy died. I thought he was just wounded. Glad it was all in "current time".


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Pretty decent ep.


quango said:


> And Ellen's just useless - not only did she screw things up by announcing how valuable a hostage she was, she also gave Starbuck away! Saul'd be better off had Adama let them shoot her...


Yeah... no kidding. I immediately thought she was a moron when she left the bathroom.

Kinda OT, I'm not sure if this is a repost, but last Sunday's Dilbert was related to BSG.  
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2006020523365.jpg

Too bad there aren't any "perfect monsters" at my work.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

during the episode my wifes comments about Ellen Tugh were..

"I am the XO wife!"--- YOu stupid bicth

"don't shoot me"----- SHoOT THE [email protected]

My wife really hates ellen tigh.

I liked this episode. I love the music in this show the drums are amazing!!! I am glad that it was in real time. I first thoguht that billy was only shot in the arm. I was bummed about him getting killed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

warrenevans said:


> I first thought that billy was only shot in the arm. I was bummed about him getting killed.


This is the second time he's been written out of the show (the first was when he went off to do a pilot that didn't get picked up). Maybe the producers are trying to tell him something? "Dude! In or out?"


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

This is more like it!

I'm kinda sad to see Billy go. On the other hand, it's good to know that even regular characters aren't untouchable.

Were we supposed to think that the woman who lead the hostage-taking & who's husband had died was a journalist? Or just obsessed?


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

Loved this episode. Unlike the past two weeks, it held my attention all the way through.

The woman wasn't a journalist, she just wrote a manifesto and sent it to the media.

It's getting to the point, though, where if you start to like a character you can count on them either dying or doing something that makes them repulsive within a few episodes.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Spiff said:


> Loved this episode. Unlike the past two weeks, it held my attention all the way through.
> 
> The woman wasn't a journalist, she just wrote a manifesto and sent it to the media.
> 
> It's getting to the point, though, where if you start to like a character you can count on them either dying or doing something that makes them repulsive within a few episodes.


That's right...now I remember.

I also wanted to add that on the last episode, Starbuck was an unstable, hard drinking, out-of-control, fiend. On this episode, she's heading up the rescue mission.

Hmmmm.....


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I liked this episode, as well. I'm sorry to see Billy go, though: I've liked the Duala/Billy pairing better than the Duala/Apollo pairing (I just don't see the chemistry between them), and now that Billy's gone there's not even going to be the Duala/Billy/Apollo triangle tension.

Nitpicking here: In the opening scene, where Dana Delaney's character is typing up her "Cylon M.O." bullet points, there are about 7 or 8 listed and you see her typing out another one. I freeze-framed it to read what they were. I was surprised, then, to hear her go on to slowly and deliberately speak the various points, as if she was in the process of typing them as she went.


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

Was it me or did Sharon pick something up when Adama sent her back to her cell? Looks like she's trying to be covert with her right hand as the guard comes to handcuff her. Or maybe she was just holding her tummy. I couldn't tell. And why didn't Lee just stay inside the wall and try to escape from there so that he could lead some marines back thru the passageway? And of course it would've been great if Ellen had been shot.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Halfway through this episode my comment was "Battlestar Galactica is back!". This is the type of episode that makes this show great. 

In response to 7thton's comment about the quick turnaround in Starbuck, I looked at it like this: she happened to be on board because she was on leave. They only sent her in because she was convenient. She made a huge error by volunteering for the recon mission not knowing if she knew any of the "terrorists".

I too was sorry to see Billy go, especially after he finally grew a pair.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

As for next week previews...



Spoiler



It looks like they finally address the subject of who's in charge of Pegasus. It looks like *Major* Lee Adama figures in somehow, and they pulled actor John Heard into the mix. I wonder what his character's position was before.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

let's just be clear on one thing: Billy can easily be brought back if he's a cylon!


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> let's just be clear on one thing: Billy can easily be brought back if he's a cylon!


I had exactly the same thought.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

When Ellen collided with the woman terrorist in the lounge, I thought that Ellen was the leak that told them about the Cylon Sharon. I continued to think she was with them when she ran out of the bathroom.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Anubys said:


> let's just be clear on one thing: Billy can easily be brought back if he's a cylon!


Not that Billy though, they destroyed the resurrection ship.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

danterner said:


> I liked this episode, as well. I'm sorry to see Billy go, though: I've liked the Duala/Billy pairing better than the Duala/Apollo pairing (I just don't see the chemistry between them), and now that Billy's gone there's not even going to be the Duala/Billy/Apollo triangle tension.


I agree that I can't stand the idea of Apollo with Duella, though I didn't think Billy was that great a character, so I wasn't broken up about his getting killed. Plus, you could see that coming from the time he started "eyeing the gun." Just think Apollo and Starbuck are suppose to get together and will eventually.

Ellen is an idiot and even if she's not a cylon, she need to die!

Nice to see Dana Delaney on the show, but too bad she played a terrorist and had to die. She'd be a great addition to the regular cast.

I figured out that Adama was going to send over the Sharon corpse immediately.

Much better show than the last couple of weeks, that's for sure.

Cheryl


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Anubys said:


> let's just be clear on one thing: Billy can easily be brought back if he's a cylon!


However, he would have very little opportunity to interact with the rest of the regulars, as everyone would know that he's a Cylon (or at least that the one killed was one and the next one could be one too).

They already have one captured Cylon plot line, I doubt the need another.



vman41 said:


> Not that Billy though, they destroyed the resurrection ship.





Spoiler



We know there's an episode coming up called 'Downloaded', focused around a Cylon, presumedly resurected, which suggests that eventually there'll be a new resurection ship available.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I hate to say it but this episode was a bore except for Adama's 'trick' with the Mark 1 Boomer corpse. Several just OK episodes in a row now.

I'm glad that the obsequious Billy is gone. At least the brutha went out in style.

Duala & Apollo? Something's not true with this match.

I admit that I kinda have a case of the hotties for Ellen Tighe. Yeah, she's a bimbo and has lotsa miles on her but it's something I'm not proud of and can't control. Needs to be ridden hard and put away wet.


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

This was a great episode, especially in comparison to the last two. I'm interested in the previews of next week as well. Some of those Pegasus questions need to be answered. I hope that eventually the Pegasus doesn't get "lost" somehow. I thought it a nice touch that it stayed with the show unlike in the original 70's Galactica, where it goes off and is never seen again. Definitely a source for many future internal conflicts.


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

I saw the Billy thing coming as soon as he showed up in the bar, given the title of the episode. Hopefully the writers have someone interesting in mind for the next President's aide. Perhaps someone that will be more suspicious of Gaeis?

I like how the hostage-taker shot the Boomer corpse. There just isn't enough head-shooting in TV. It sure takes the mystery out of whether or not a character is faking, asleep, or just knocked out. Jack Bauer sure wouldn't have appreciated it


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## Thaed (Nov 25, 2003)

I wasn't too crazy about this one. In next week's episode, the Pegasus jumps by itself. That's how the original series Pegasus left. Pegasus just isn't going to be in the show much longer.

Even though Baltar makes my skin crawl, these episodes without him have suffered.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

By far the best episode of season 2.5 but still not as good as the season 2.0 episodes. I hope they get back to the main story arc some time soon. I am glad billy is dead so now we don't have to suffer a stupid love triangle.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> I admit that I kinda have a case of the hotties for Ellen Tighe. Yeah, she's a bimbo and has lotsa miles on her but it's something I'm not proud of and can't control. Needs to be ridden hard and put away wet.


Ewww!!  That _is_ gross. 

I agree with everyone saying this week was much better and back to what's great about BSG. I also really liked Dana Delaney on the show, and some of her character's views - just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that no one is out to get you. I've been saying all along that they've got to get rid of the spylons because everything they do is manipulation. Out the airlock with 'em!


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

jschuur said:


> However, he would have very little opportunity to interact with the rest of the regulars, as everyone would know that he's a Cylon (or at least that the one killed was one and the next one could be one too).
> 
> They already have one captured Cylon plot line, I doubt the need another.
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Apparently, the episode revolves around original Galactica Sharon after she was gunned down Lee Harvey Oswald style. She wakes up on Cylon Caprica?


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

I was very surprised to see them kill off Billy (budget cuts?) but I was tired of always seeing him in that coat and tie. So, whatever.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Thought this was a good episode. Not a 'top' episode, but much better than the last two.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Adama's conversation with Boomer. He asked her if she's willing to give up where the other Cylons in the fleet are and she flat out said 'no'. Then at the end they show her in the cell with hand on belly just staring at the ceiling, her cylon brain thinking. I originally thought she wouldd become a 'sympathizer' for the humans but now I'm thinking she's probably playing everybody, including Helo, all for her baby.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Ewww!!  That _is_ gross.


Hey now.

Since I am the same age as Kate Vernon (actress who plays Ellen Tigh) I can say it and mean it: She's hot!  

(BTW: Somehow I find it interesting that Kate's father, John Vernon, who's most famous acting role was that of Dean Wormer in "Animal House" somewhat resembles Edward James Olmos...but that's totally off topic...)

Good suspenseful episode.

Continues the tension and suspense of not really knowing "who's right" about a lot of the issues.

Is keeping a known cylon alive in the brig a fatal mistake? Is the terrorists paranoia well founded?

Of course, the instant Ellen Tigh shows up in an episode we all know she's going to royally frack things up for everyone and generally make every bad situation worse!

For everyone's sake, she needs to be killed off, but then again, she adds good dramatic tension to the show!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> For everyone's sake, she needs to be killed off, but then again, she adds *good* dramatic tension to the show!


For everyone's sake, she needs to be killed off, but then again, she adds dramatic tension to the show!


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm really starting to warm up to the theory that Duella is a cylon.

Back when the group was on Caprica looking for the Tomb of Athena, Apollo made a comment that he couldn't understand how Helo could be involved with a cylon. It would be an interesting story point to have the woman Apollo was involved with be a cylon.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Regarding Adama's conversations with Cylon Shar, when she declines to name the other Spylons in the fleet, why does he go with 'anything' she tells him? Her refusal to disclose makes it obvious where her loyalties lie, not that I expected anything different.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Todd said:


> I was very surprised to see them kill off Billy (budget cuts?) but I was tired of always seeing him in that coat and tie. So, whatever.


In the podcast, Moore said that Paul Campbell (the actor who plays Billy) was getting offers for leading parts and they tried to accomodate him as much as possible. It's just that in their situation it was next to impossible to explain Billy's absences. He said they faced the same thing on Roswell with Colin Hanks and used the same solution. He also said that Campbell was very popular among the cast and they were sorry to see him go.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Thaed and Net114, it's against forum policy to discuss the next week's previews without spoiler tags.


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> Thaed and Net114, it's against forum policy to discuss the next week's previews without spoiler tags.


Yeh, I was careful not to actually mention what was in the preview, but point taken it spawned comments back.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I feel like such a tool bringing up forum rules but the previews are a sore spot for me.


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## mikeinla (Jun 6, 2004)

dswallow said:


> For everyone's sake, she needs to be killed off, but then again, she adds dramatic tension to the show!


I still think she's a Cylon!

Why?

1. Has access to Colonial defense information through her drunken husband...
2. Would make her character vastly more interesting...
3. Would be a great plot twist...the most airheaded character is faking being stupid...priceless


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mikeinla said:


> 3. Would be a great plot twist...the most airheaded character is faking being stupid...priceless


Or maybe she's not faking. She's a defective model!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> I feel like such a tool bringing up forum rules but the previews are a sore spot for me.


don't be...I was also annoyed and was about to say something about it...I avoid previews and knowing the ep title as well (since sometimes it gives a clue)...


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Good episode. Sorry to see Billy go - I liked his character and his role with the President.

Points:
- It also appeared to me that Sharon pocketed something during her first meeting with Adama.
- Starbuck headed up the rescue party despite her growing alcohol problem - why? Because Adama made the call, he has a soft spot for her, and may not realize how bad her drinking problem is. And it's not like he's ignored officers' drinking problems in the past. But as I recall, when he asked who was on Cloud 9, he was told that Starbuck, APOLLO, and marines were there - yet he didn't have Apollo in on the mission. And at this point, he didn't know Apollo was in the lounge...
- Sharon's refusal to pass on the identity of other Cylon agents. This could be a sign of where her loyalties also lie, but could also just be a sign that she's afraid of what will happen to them if their cover is blown. If they're caught/executed (which is possible, as they don't share Sharon's willingness to collaborate with the humans), they'd be dead forever, and Sharon likely does not want that to happen regardless of her true loyalties.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

emandbri said:


> Ellen Tigh (sp) is just an idiot. The best thing she could have done was listen to Lee but the second best thing was to not let them know who she was. Emily


I think Ellen is a Cylon


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I can't believe how seriously happy I was at the thought they might actually kill Ellen! I don't remember having that kind of reaction to a character in a long time. She's just a total waste. Whenever she's on the screen you KNOW she's going to frak something up, and usually something big.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Sherminator said:


> Why is she too old, Leoben didn't seem to be a spring chicken, anyway if she isn't a cylon, perhaps she has been "reprogrammed" to be a disrupter by the cylons.


it's just an opinion...the general idea is that cylons did not come up with the tech until recently and that someone like Ellen would have been alive during the first war (before they had human cylons)...so with many people knowing her, it would be impossible to replace her (and there's no evidence that they can do that)...

now brain-washing is possible...but there's no indication that Ellen wasn't like that all the time!


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I can't believe how seriously happy I was at the thought they might actually kill Ellen! I don't remember having that kind of reaction to a character in a long time. She's just a total waste. Whenever she's on the screen you KNOW she's going to frak something up, and usually something big.


She reminds me of Dr. Smith on the old "Lost in Space" show. They are both one-dimensional characters, but convincingly portrayed.

Realistically, no writer in their correct mind would kill her off sooner rather than later as she is such a "lightening rod" character. The actress playing Ellen could be the nicest, smartest person on the planet, but the character is highly-believable.

Given the way we want smart TV writing to be, if and when she exits the story, it should either be in a grand build-up of malice-aforethought glory and gore, or after some decent character development that explains why she is what she is and makes her a more understandable person. We'll still be glad to see here go, but it will have more of an impact.

Think of the recent Starbuck and Apollo episodes -- characters portrayed strong initially and now some other sides of them being shown. Just imagine the reverse with Ellen - dare we hope that the writing could be good enough to actually make her a hero? (Calling Dr. G'Kar to the ER)!


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## digdug (Jan 13, 2004)

For me, Billy's death is no big loss to the show. I was never to fond of him and never got more than a snicker while watching his schoolboy crush on Duala. She was obviously playing him while she had her eyes on much bigger game. Nice guys finish last dontcha know?

On the flip side, his sense of honor and chivalry is to be commended.


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

This is one of those episodes that had me yelling at the TV because the characters were doing stupid things where they should know better. We all know that Starbuck is top gun and pretty much a military celebrity. So who is the best choice for a covert op? Um, not Ms. Popularity!

Another moment that had me yelling is when they saw the guy with the machine gun reloading. I thought it was a perfect moment to take him down. What do our trained soldiers do? Brave brave Sir Robin! Turn tail and run!

I was surprised that Billy received a killing shot. I rewound the scene and it looked like he got hit in the shoulder. Odd that he gets killed while Adama with a nasty chest wound is fine. Perhaps all Adamas are unkillable. 

Anyway, why the heck didn't they just put knockout gas in the enviromental system for the room? Oh, it would ruin the drama. Nevermind!


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

emandbri said:


> Ellen Tigh (sp) is just an idiot. The best thing she could have done was listen to Lee but the second best thing was to not let them know who she was.


Oh, stopping the bullet aimed for Lee or the no-name marines would be fairly high up on the list of usefull things she could have done.

I thought for a moment at the beginning that the gunmen were actually plotting to kill Ellen, possibly because they believed she was a Cylon.



7thton said:


> I also wanted to add that on the last episode, Starbuck was an unstable, hard drinking, out-of-control, fiend. On this episode, she's heading up the rescue mission.


Well, to be fair to Starbuck's charactor continuity; this week she was royally screwing up a rescue mission. So unstable and out-of-control seem to still apply


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

clearly, the people from the 12 colonies are not good at recognizing people...Starbuck disguised herself with a hat...nobody recognizes Six once she wore glasses...


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## Doctor_K (Dec 21, 2001)

What a waste of a amazing look for Dualla, nice dress! We need more episodes with her "out of uniform".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> clearly, the people from the 12 colonies are not good at recognizing people...Starbuck disguised herself with a hat...nobody recognizes Six once she wore glasses...


They must live in the same universe as Superman...


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## jigsawhc (Jun 4, 2005)

This was the first episode where I did not think Billy was annoying and then he died. It actually made me a little sad. Last week i would not ahve cared. Amazing was a spine does for a character.


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## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

Great episode. Can't understand why people want Ellen to be killed off....yes, she is an idiot, but that's what is great about this show, not everyone on it is either a hero or a villain, some are just sort of in-between, which is what I consider Ellen to be. 

The greatest thing about this show is that everyone seems so realistically human. We see their faults, their strengths, their good days and bad. Hey, just like real life...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

we also saw how much Tigh loves Ellen, didn't we? If it were just "people" in there, don't you think Tigh would have been in the "blow the whole bar" camp?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

rlc1 said:


> Great episode. Can't understand why people want Ellen to be killed off....yes, she is an idiot, but that's what is great about this show, not everyone on it is either a hero or a villain, some are just sort of in-between, which is what I consider Ellen to be.
> 
> The greatest thing about this show is that everyone seems so realistically human. We see their faults, their strengths, their good days and bad. Hey, just like real life...


Ellen, in between?!?! You'll have to name _one_ decent quality she has before I'll agree to that . At best you could say she's stupid... at least then she wouldn't be as culpable. But we've seen plenty of evidence that she's not just stupid.

I hate her character, and characters like hers on other shows, because she's just a scapegoat for the writers: an easy out of any situation. "Oh, just give Ellen some lines to completely muck everything up". I'd be much happier if they handed out these things more evenly: maybe Billy could have been the one to tweak when seeing Starbuck. At least Apollo and Dualla gave each other away and Ellen wasn't in the middle of _that_, too.

I'm much happier if everyone is at least basically competent: the writers have to work harder but it seems more realistic to me. Maybe I'm just an optimist


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## MassD (Sep 19, 2002)

Anubys said:


> clearly, the people from the 12 colonies are not good at recognizing people...Starbuck disguised herself with a hat...nobody recognizes Six once she wore glasses...


Well.... I let that one go. Realistically, how many people off the Galatica would recognize Starbuck on sight? Not all that many I would guess.


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## chewbaccad (Feb 16, 2005)

an OK episode, but it does seem like using Ellen was the easy way out on a lot of things. And should her husband be wondering what she was doing in the bar in the first place? My god, every time that character shows up I just keep wanting Stewie Griffin to come through the door and ask her "is there any tread left on the tire?"  

I wasn't sorry to see Billy go, but I did find it odd that they finally give him a backbone 5 minutes before the curtain drops on him...

And hey!!! Gaeta got a line!!! I think he said "sir" at one point!! That's the first time in months... everybody please join us in remembering the true forgotten man, Lt. Gaeta


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I did like the look on Ellen's face when she thought she was going to get lucky in the bathroom with Lee.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Actually what I thought would have been interesting if Apollo continued his spiral downward by shooting the leader in the head while using his prisoner as a human shield Oh wait that was Arnold in True Lies nevermind.

PS: I still think Ellen is an old (age wise) version of Six.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I'm not believing Ellen is a Cylon. Tighe and Adama have known her for several years and have thus seen her age. If she's a Cylon, then either Cylons are able to age, or else she replaced the 'original' human Ellen at some point which then implies they can 'import' a human's memories as part of their programming.


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

voripteth said:


> *...why the heck didn't they just put knockout gas in the enviromental system for the room?*


Yeah, where's that handy dose of anesthizine gas when you need it? 

70-PPM does a body good.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

When the President was on the Bridge of the Galactica there was a woman standing behind her in the background. It looked like she was wearing a suit but the lighting was perfect to hide her face. Kind of like the picture that Dana Delaney had up on her wall of the woman where you could see her hair and her outline but her face was hidden.

J


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Anubys said:


> cylons did not come up with the tech until recently and that someone like Ellen would have been alive during the first war _(...)_so with many people knowing her, it would be impossible to replace her (and there's no evidence that they can do that)...


So they made created her to look older than other models. So what? Perhaps all her "family" was killed in the first war and she met Tigh 5 or 6 years ago. (Sharon must have been around about that long to go through the academy and pilot training and all that)



Jeeters said:


> Tighe and Adama have known her for several years and have thus seen her age.


Cylons must be able to age. The fetus is certainly aging, right? And if they're so biologically close to humans that it's so hard to tell them apart and so close that they can cross-breed, it's not unreasonable to assume that they age like humans.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Cylons must be able to age. The fetus is certainly aging, right? And if they're so biologically close to humans that it's so hard to tell them apart and so close that they can cross-breed, it's not unreasonable to assume that they age like humans.


Also it will explain why six will still look hot but aged like a fine wine a few years from now


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## porges (Feb 28, 2001)

Apropos of nothing: Ellen is played by Kate Vernon, whose father, John Vernon, was the legendary Dean Wormer in Animal House. (And whose birthname according to imdb is the truly impressive "Adolphus Raymondus Vernon Agopsowicz".)


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Maybe when Ellen went in for one of her many plastic surgeries they replaced her with a Six model that had been altered to look like her. Nobody would question if her face was different because she paid to make it different.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Perhaps all her "family" was killed in the first war and she met Tigh 5 or 6 years ago. (Sharon must have been around about that long to go through the academy and pilot training and all that)


 Nope, they've said a few times that Sharon came to Galactica around "two years ago" (mentioned in this episode, in fact)


> Cylons must be able to age. The fetus is certainly aging, right? And if they're so biologically close to humans that it's so hard to tell them apart and so close that they can cross-breed, it's not unreasonable to assume that they age like humans.


 the fetus is a "new" breed, different from the other spylons; hence all the Cylon excitement. They are a bunch of Pinnochios with dreams of being "real".


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> ...Cylons must be able to age. The fetus is certainly aging, right? And if they're so biologically close to humans that it's so hard to tell them apart and so close that they can cross-breed, it's not unreasonable to assume that they age like humans.


 Remember, the baby is half human, half cylon, so the "aging" rules for "pure" cylons would not apply.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The writers really need to get back to creating more of an arc of a storyline, than these standalone episodes. They've been fine, but they lack the energy and excitment of the previous multi-episode storylines.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> Nope, they've said a few times that Sharon came to Galactica around "two years ago"


OK, she came to _Galactica_ two years ago---are you suggesting that she did *not* go to the Academy? All the other officers know each other from school, but no one knows her? No one asked her about her previous posting? She was going to take the chance that no one asked anyone there about her?

I don't think so...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> OK, she came to _Galactica_ two years ago---are you suggesting that she did *not* go to the Academy? All the other officers know each other from school, but no one knows her? No one asked her about her previous posting? She was going to take the chance that no one asked anyone there about her?
> 
> I don't think so...


I'm suggesting that no one on the Galactica has known her for more than two years. Apollo and Starbuck knew each other previously, and they both have been on active duty for awhile; they would not have attended flight school with Sharon, who according to the character bio here: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/characters/


> Is "Not long out of flight school, she's the squadron's rookie"


 And from another source


> 'Boomer' Valerii appears to be a young pilot recently-assigned to shipboard operations. Assigned to flying the Raptor reconnaissance vehicle. Her inexperience is demonstrated through repeated heavy landings aboard the Galactica (Mini-Series).


 and


> Initially, "Boomer" Valerii is unaware of her Cylon status. As far as she is aware, she was born on the mining colony of Troy, the daughter of a family from Arilon (Flesh and Bone). Troy itself was destroyed in an unexplained cataclysm, allowing Boomer's background to be established as that of an orphan.


I can't recall anyone mentioning knowing Boomer before she arrived on Galactica.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Bad writing. Sorry, but the writers have sucked the last few weeks. They kind of know where they want to go dramatically, but they don't know how to get there.

If you want dramatic tension, you have to make it unfold logically. Actions taken by characters have to be inevitable due to circumstances. But, in order to drive the story to the point they wanted it to go they had their characters make a series of stupid decisions: Apollo hiding in the bathroom instead of leaving out the front door; Ellen revealing herself (and everyone else); Apollo revealing himself; Starbuck trying to go undercover (and where do you get a false-bottomed toolbox on short notice anyway?).

They needed a terrorist group, so they invented one, but just barely touched on their motivation and organization. Surely, there's a whole episode or three possible just on that plot line. Where's the depth of characterization? Where's the patience in building storylines that this show used to have? Why can't we see more of the problems in the civilian fleet?

And I'm still not buying into the whole love quadrangle--now triangle--between Apollo/Dualla/Billy(RIP)/Starbuck. Like most other character interactions recently, that storyline is dramatically inert. Just because they tell us that there is tension between the characters, doesn't mean we can feel it. I feel nothing.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> I can't recall anyone mentioning knowing Boomer before she arrived on Galactica.


Maybe not anyone on _Galactica_, but she must have been asked about her experiences in school and military training.

Think about it---let's say you're on _Galactica_ and some new hottie joined your ship. Of course people ask her where she was before. She says "flight school". Well, you certainly know a lot of people at flight school or people who were a year behind you or whatever and so you ask about them. Maybe you call them up to get the 411 on this chick.

Are you saying that the Cylons were just hoping that no one would do that? No, of course not. So she did go to flight school. And, by the same logic, to the academy. But that's it. As latrobe quoted, she's from Troy so no one would ask too many questions about why she doesn't have a family...

But that means that's she's been around for a number of years. _Galactica_ plus flight school plus military school. 5-6 years, I'd guess.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> But that means that's she's been around for a number of years. _Galactica_ plus flight school plus military school. 5-6 years, I'd guess.


they did say that she was one of the few survivors (orphan) of some disaster that killed the entire colony...basically, a convenient cover for why she does not have any family or anyone remembering her before a certain date...so yes, she may have been around 5-6 years...that is a far cry from being around for 50+ years like Ellen...

I'm not saying there isn't something strange about Ellen...the sudden appearance in the fleet and the coma is too convenient...but her being a straight spylon like Boomer does not track with any of the evidence we've seen so far...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Maybe not anyone on _Galactica_, but she must have been asked about her experiences in school and military training.
> 
> Think about it---let's say you're on _Galactica_ and some new hottie joined your ship. Of course people ask her where she was before. She says "flight school". Well, you certainly know a lot of people at flight school or people who were a year behind you or whatever and so you ask about them. Maybe you call them up to get the 411 on this chick.
> 
> ...


I would bet money she has not been around for 5-6 years. And yeah, she did go to flight school; but the issue that began the discussion was whether or not spylons age, and wouldn't someone notice one way or the other. No one on the show has known her personally for more than two years. Anytime they mention Boomers past they imply this. If you can find ANY show reference to ANY Cylon being around for for more than 2-3 years, I will accept your premise. But there isn't any, because they weren't. I will go on what is actually in the shows, rather than assumption about how anyone would behave in another reality.

Here's a BSG timeline


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I'm not saying there isn't something strange about Ellen...the sudden appearance in the fleet and the coma is too convenient...but her being a straight spylon like Boomer does not track with any of the evidence we've seen so far...


The thing about Ellen is that she doesn't need to be a cylon. She would do anything or turn on anyone for some sort of compensation without thinking about it. She could even be a Cylon informant, not realise it and not care as long as she was getting hers. She is much like a female version of Baltar, only she isn't as socially repressed, or paranoid.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Anubys said:


> that is a far cry from being around for 50+ years like Ellen...


Who said Ellen has been around for 50 years? Do we know how long the Tighs have been married? Perhaps Ellen also came from that doomed Troy colony...


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Just as an aside, Kate Vernon (Ellen) is only 45.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> Just as an aside, Kate Vernon (Ellen) is only 45.


 

she looks 55 to me...Tigh is a heck of a cradle robber, then!


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> she looks 55 to me...Tigh is a heck of a cradle robber, then!


It's all the plastic surgery.

I'm not going to post links, because I would get in serious trouble. But a little searching will bring up some pictures of her younger days. She was in a lot of movies in the 80's... like Pretty in Pink with Molly Ringwald.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> It's all the plastic surgery.
> 
> I'm not going to post links, because I would get in serious trouble. But a little searching will bring up some pictures of her younger days.


how did you do that?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Meh. I liked the plot developments, just not how they arrived there. It felt really artificial to me to have starbuck shoot apollo just after everything between them in the previous episode. The writers seem to have no patience lately.

Anyhoo, will Lee be the new presidential advisor when he wakes up?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> how did you do that?


I'll never tell.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Do we know how long the Tighs have been married?


battlestarwiki.org says 7 years. They met after Adama convinced him to re-enlist in the military (reenlistment decision was in the flashbacks of episode "Scattered").


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Meh. I liked the plot developments, just not how they arrived there. It felt really artificial to me to have starbuck shoot apollo just after everything between them in the previous episode.


Er... why? It was an accident; she didn't mean to do it. Right?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> battlestarwiki.org says 7 years.


So she could easily be a Cylon.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

madscientist said:


> It was an accident; she didn't mean to do it. Right?


She was lining up a shot on some quail, and Adama just happened to be in the line of fire.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

madscientist said:


> Er... why? It was an accident; she didn't mean to do it. Right?


That's why I said it was artificial. The writers found a cheap way to manipulate starbuck's emotions, in my opinion. They didn't even give their friendship/love issue any time to simmer after last week's episode. Just right into a complete reversal. These past three episodes have had one noticeable flaw to me, and others have pointed it out as well... the writers are not developing the storylines adequately. Soon it may turn into japanese animation, where something gets introduced less than 5 seconds before it becomes an important plot point. I'm waiting for the cylons to fire the ionic cannon.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> So she could easily be a Cylon.


  First, Cylons have been around for "5-6 years", now 7+; _and_ they age, because you say so? Do you have anything besides your perception to support your assertion?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> First, Cylons have been around for "5-6 years", now 7+; _and_ they age, because you say so? Do you have anything besides your perception to support your assertion?


The only thing I'm asserting is that it is possible that she's a Cylon and it's possible that they age.

I'm just saying it's possible---that there's no evidence to dispute it. If you want to claim it's *im*possible, then provide some evidence.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> The only thing I'm asserting is that it is possible that she's a Cylon and it's possible that they age.
> 
> I'm just saying it's possible---that there's no evidence to dispute it. If you want to claim it's *im*possible, then provide some evidence.


Well, anything is possible, but based on what's happened in the show and what Ron Moore has said in interviews, podcasts, and on his blog, it would seem unlikely that Ellen is a Cylon. I think she may be being manipulated a la Baltar, but I don't think she is a cylon.



Spoiler






> With this information from the show's main creative leader, it is established as canon that:
> 
> There are precisely twelve human Cylon models. The other varieties of Cylon spacecraft or fighters are not factored into this count of 12 models.
> Sharon Valerii was never an actual human, and neither were the other Cylon agent models.
> The twelve models are based on on archetypes determined by the Cylons that form what they perceive were the specific kinds of human behavior and/or personality, distilled into twelve varieties.


 http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Humano-Cylon


Also


Spoiler






> Is Ellen Tigh a Cylon operative? (This would stretch believability, according to Ron D. Moore. See the speculated infiltrators section of the Humano-Cylon article for more.)


 http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Ellen_Tigh



Nothing in the show proves it one way or another; but there is more indication that she is not. The age thing is more a matter of we have seen nothing to indicate that they _do_ age. The spylons are different from humans in several ways, there is no reason that they would age like human. Particularly since every spylon we've seen looks exactly the same age as the other copies of the same model. Also, if they aged, it would be difficult for one copy to replace a previous copy after resurection, since the new one would look younger.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I have never claimed that the Cylon human models are, well, modelled on existing humans. My assertation is that Ellen Tigh might have always been a Cylon and that she first appeared 7 years ago. Nothing that's happened in the show (nor other info) refutes that, to my knowledge. As for Moore's comment,


Spoiler



...it suggests that he has not yet made up his mind, but that he feels that having her be a Cylon (plus crazy and everything else) might be too much, but that's certainly not the same thing as having him say she's human. Lee, for example, is definitely human, according to Moore's laws.





latrobe7 said:


> The age thing is more a matter of we have seen nothing to indicate that they _do_ age.


Sure. And we have seen nothing to indicate that they do *not* age. It's up in the air for now.

Every Cylon human model we've seen looks exactly the same age as similar models *at the same given time*. That either means that they all age together (including the "template"), or they do not age. We have not seen what Boomer looked like 5 years ago compared to what she looks like now. We have no way of knowing one way or another. That's all I've said---you're the one who is taking incomplete information and making unfounded assertions...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> That's all I've said---you're the one who is taking incomplete information and making unfounded assertions...


Whatever. You clearly live in a world of your own perception. I linked outside information that lends support to my view, where's yours?

And what is "they all age together (including the "template")", but an "unfounded assertion"?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Surely, there's a whole episode or three possible just on that plot line. Where's the depth of characterization? Where's the patience in building storylines that this show used to have? Why can't we see more of the problems in the civilian fleet?


This has actually been my only problem with the last 3 episodes: everything has been done in a very traditional TV-way - neat little one-episode character-centred stories with a beginning, middle and end, all within 42 minutes. This is very different from how BSG started out, where it wac character-driven, but not character-centred, and where plotlines "were resolved by their own volition" to use one of my favorite borrowed lines.

I wish they'll get back to multi-episode arcs that unfold characteristics, rather than these one-off deals where characters are suddenly behaving in ways that have not been touched on very much before.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't agree with Amnesia that Ellen is a spylon...but I'm willing to concede his point that it's possible...nothing that we have seen so far makes it a certainty that she is not... 

Amnesia is wrong, of course, but not definitively!


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> And what is "they all age together (including the "template")", but an "unfounded assertion"?


It's a *possibility*! Why can't you understand?!?

I'm saying that I'm open to multiple possibilities and you claim that only one option is possible, yet provide no evidence for your assertion. You have not provided any backing to support your allegation that they do not age. I say maybe yes, maybe no. You say definitely no. Where's your proof?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

It's also possible that she's a ghost. It's just a TV-show, guys...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> It's a *possibility*! Why can't you understand?!?
> 
> I'm saying that I'm open to multiple possibilities and you claim that only one option is possible, yet provide no evidence for your assertion. You have not provided any backing to support your allegation that they do not age. I say maybe yes, maybe no. You say definitely no. Where's your proof?


Well, apparently your reading comprehension is as poor as your memory.



latrobe7 said:


> ...anything is possible...Nothing in the show proves it one way or another; but there is more indication that she is not.


I never said it was definite, I said the evidence in the show so far lends to her not being a cylon, and that cylons don't age. The only thing I said was definite was that no one on Galactica has known Sharon for more than two years. I provided multiple links to support my views. Once again, where's yours?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

MickeS said:


> It's also possible that she's a ghost. It's just a TV-show, guys...


Yup. It's also possible the writer's don't even know yet. Perhaps they originally conceived her as human then hear about some TCF place theorizing she's a Cylon and then go, "hmm, *there's* and idea!". Or it's possible she was conceived as a Cylon but they'll in the end decide to nix that idea and her 'reveal' will never happen.


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> battlestarwiki.org says 7 years. They met after Adama convinced him to re-enlist in the military (reenlistment decision was in the flashbacks of episode "Scattered").


Lol, I've been browsing through that and it reminded me of something I thought was pretty funny. Everybody knows how the Cylons are referred to as "toasters". Did anybody else notice how the Cylon Raiders launched from the basestars? Look an awful lot like toast popping up to me...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> I said the evidence in the show so far lends to her not being a cylon, and that cylons don't age.


What evidence suggests that Cylons don't age?

My position is that there is no evidence either way.
You claim that there is evidence supporting that allegation that they don't age.

What is it?


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Jumping in late here only because I just saw the episode. Thought it was OK, but Ellen has to go! I just flat out don't like the character. And she definitely looks a lot more than 45.

Anyways, regarding trusting Boomer. So far she's been nothing but truthful. Whenever she gave answers, (or did that plug into her wrists trick) it was helping her stay alive. We saw in the last episode (or before it...it was in this episode's "previously on") that she was agreeing with Adama that maybe the human race SHOULD die. So she doesn't seem to have any real attachment to humans (with the possible exception of Helio, or whatever his name is). Coupled with her concern that they destroyed the resurrection ship (what a mean thing to do to the poor cylons!), she knows she can't be resurrected anytime soon. She's pregnant. Also add that Caprica Six acknowledged that the Sharon copy is flawed, and you got yourself one seriously screwed up cylon.

So me thinks she's just trying to survive. She doesn't resist whenever the guards come around. Perhaps once the baby is delivered, she'll change her tune a little (I doubt Adama will let Boomer raise her child, so you got the whole mother lion thing).

I wonder if she would have revealed the other spylons if Adama started torturing her, bringing her almost to the point of death.

But nothing hints that she won't turn on the fleet if she sees a reason to.

-Mike


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

actually, I think the Sharon model is not flawed...or its flaw is that it is too human (thus, a flaw in the eyes of the cylons)...she shows independent thinking from the "hive" mentality and seems capable of genuine feelings...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> What evidence suggests that Cylons don't age?
> 
> My position is that there is no evidence either way.
> You claim that there is evidence supporting that allegation that they don't age.
> ...


I will concede that the aging evidence is subjective. I dont believe the growth of the fetus is evidence of aging. Growing is not necessarily the same thing as aging. They dont need to sleep, some or all have heightened reflexes and strength, and I think its likely that they have little or no susceptibility to disease. I base that on the fetal blood of the hybrid baby curing cancer, almost instantly. Some or all models can interface with a computer directly via a fiber optic link. IMO no traits we would take for granted in humans are necessarily present in cylons, and new differences are always coming up. I believe that a machine designing a human would engineer out as much weakness as possible, and don't get why they would engineer in aging as we know it. Unless, it was specifically for the creation of a covert agent like Ellen, which IMO, is a stretch.

But I dont need to prove the negative. If your show theory is that Ellen is a cylon, the aging question is something that needs to be reconciled, if someone who came on the scene up to 7 years ago could be a cylon, then nearly everyone outside of Adama, Tigh, Lee and Roslin  oh, and Zarek - could easily be a cylon  and yeah, maybe they are. As you and others have pointed out, anything is possible and maybe the writers havent made up their mind yet and they could write the story to fit any theory; but what has been said about time frames, is that Boomer came on the scene at Galactica two years ago, and 6 started an affair with Baltar two years ago. So until something is said in the show about it, I will assume that the cylons came on the scene two years ago (two years before the cylon attack). I will therefore consider the possibility of anybody without a verifiable past beyond two years could be a cylon. Which is still a bunch of people. After all, most of society was destroyed and anyone can tell any story about their past. In fact, Ellen is one of the few people with an alibi  which you may say is the perfect reason to suspect her, but I disagree. As I said before, I think she may be under their influence somehow, but I dont think Ellen is a cylon. Nothing has been said to specifically refute cylons arriving 7 years ago, but nothing endorses it either  other than Ellen being a stupid b*tch.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't think you can take anything we know about the fetus and extrapolate it to include cylons...Sharon's blood would not have cured the president, for example. Otherwise, they would have used that instead of getting it from the fetus...it's clear that the fetus has properties not inherent in cylons (it is a human/cylon hybrid, after all)... 

so as far as we know, spylons are grown as an adult...we have not seen anything to indicate that they start as children and grow to the adult we see now... 

I'm not saying spylons don't age...I'm just saying we have not seen it (yet)...


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Jumping into the "Is Ellen Tigh" a Cylon -

I'd have to say not. I reason this as all the other Cylon subversives have been positioned in strategic jobs that would provide the Cylons an advantage - either by sabotage or additional intelligence. And Ellen Tigh has none of those - why would the cylons waste a model to be the wife of a drunk who was re-enlisting? Sure, maybe they met when he was already XO, but he still would have been XO of an older battlestar ready to be retired. In contrast....

Caprica/Baltar's Six: Weapons/defense contractor
Boomer: Soldier
Doral (original): Public relations worker, presumably for the military/government
D'Anna Biers: Reporter
Simon and Leobon: Have not seen in colonial job roles

Being related to an important military figure could be a reasonable fit - I just don't see Tigh as an important military figure. If she were Adama's wife, or the wife of the Pegasus XO, well I might feel differently.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

actually, that would explain why Ellen mysteriously appeared...once it was nothing but Galactica left of the fleet, they found a way to "get" to the second in command...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> actually, that would explain why Ellen mysteriously appeared...once it was nothing but Galactica left of the fleet, they found a way to "get" to the second in command...


On the other hand, we know that there are (and were before the attack) only 12 Spylon models. If they were to model one or some of them after actual humans in order to get any possible survivors of the initial attack, why would they pick the wife of the drunk second-in-command of an obsolete ship that was about to be converted into a museum?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, we know that there are (and were before the attack) only 12 Spylon models. If they were to model one or some of them after actual humans in order to get any possible survivors of the initial attack, why would they pick the wife of the drunk second-in-command of an obsolete ship that was about to be converted into a museum?


Hey, even Cylons can make mistakes.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, we know that there are (and were before the attack) only 12 Spylon models. If they were to model one or some of them after actual humans in order to get any possible survivors of the initial attack, why would they pick the wife of the drunk second-in-command of an obsolete ship that was about to be converted into a museum?


I wasn't implying that Ellen is a spylon...actually, quite the opposite...they clearly did not have a spylon high enough on Galactica since it was not an important ship...once it became important, they had to scramble and do SOMETHING...whatever Ellen is, I don't think she's a spylon, but she is probably there (brain washed?) to serve their purposes and give them access to someone high up in the pecking order on Galactica...

that also would explain the attempt on Adama's life...they are trying to get Baltar to the presidency, and trying to get Tigh to the command...


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Anubys said:


> actually, that would explain why Ellen mysteriously appeared...once it was nothing but Galactica left of the fleet, they found a way to "get" to the second in command...


Although they also had a version of Six and Lucy Lawless on the fleet.... Yes, I see your point.

But my comment was why they'd have Ellen marry Tigh in the first place well before the attack. About the only rationale I can come up with was to use him to "insert" herself into the company of other men in the military who might be more influential.

And so far they've not shown that Cylons can "brainwash" humans....although there they do have other means of manipulating them (see Cylon Sympathizers and Baltar, Gaius).


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I wasn't implying that Ellen is a spylon...actually, quite the opposite...they clearly did not have a spylon high enough on Galactica since it was not an important ship...once it became important, they had to scramble and do SOMETHING...whatever Ellen is, I don't think she's a spylon, but she is probably there (brain washed?) to serve their purposes and give them access to someone high up in the pecking order on Galactica...
> 
> that also would explain the attempt on Adama's life...they are trying to get Baltar to the presidency, and trying to get Tigh to the command...


Heh, that would be a cool surprise - I've been waiting to see Baltar assume his role in command of a Basestar pursuing Galactica, but they could have Ellen turn out to be a big sellout too, doing some of the damage we're waiting to see Baltar do. Maybe the Cylons captured here somewhere on Caprica, found out who she was, made a deal with her, and placed her on the ship she was found on, or something like that.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Crrink said:


> Heh, that would be a cool surprise - I've been waiting to see Baltar assume his role in command of a Basestar pursuing Galactica, but they could have Ellen turn out to be a big sellout too, doing some of the damage we're waiting to see Baltar do. Maybe the Cylons captured here somewhere on Caprica, found out who she was, made a deal with her, and placed her on the ship she was found on, or something like that.


Give Baltar a Basestar and use a bunch of Ellen models like was done in I, Mudd with Stella.


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