# Telewest TV Drive PVR / DVR - any Tivo owner feedback?



## childe

I accidentally posted this on the Chit-Chat forum, but think it belongs here.

Now the Telewest TVdrive pilot is underway, are there any Tivo users who would care to share their views? It has some features which are clearly better than Tivo, but do they compensate for any other shortcomings it may have? Which is the better overall package, and why?

I'm very interested to hear from Tivo users as obviously their opinions are obviously to be highly respected, and they won't be overly impressed by features that we Tivo users take for granted.


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## karl

Just had TVDrive installed yesterday. I wanted it because I'm planning to get HDTV next year and also I am having problems with my TiVo randomly rebooting at ever more frequent intervals.

I also like the idea of the three tuners, 2 to record and 1 to watch, plus 90 minutes live tv rewind rather than 30. It also means the end of the "TiVo needs to change the channel at 8pm" message - which causes no end of confusion when my girlfriend comes round to watch Corrie!

With two 120GB drives in my TiVo and recording everything in Basic (guess I have bad eyesight plus I don't watch sport), 80 hours recording time seems a bit of a comedown (only 20 in HD!). 

Obviously as you rent the box from Telewest there is no opportunity for hacking like there is with TiVo, so I guess you're stuck with this capacity. On the other hand, I suppose the rental business model means it's cheaper to upgrade in the future when Telewest upgrade capacity. I can't help feeling it's somewhat ironic that the cutting edge of TV tech takes you back to the old days of Radio Rentals, as it were.

My initial impression from actually using the box was, perhaps predictably, that I immediately missed a TiVo feature. First thing I wanted to do was set up a season pass for Lost. Okay, so how do I type L-O-S-T? Oh, I don't - I have to find it in the EPG and press the yellow button! Impressive for a VCR user but frustrating for us spoilt TiVo users. Recording programmes by name is probably my favourite TiVo feature, ARWL for example is nice but I can live without it. Soon after getting my TiVo I disabled suggestions as I don't even have enough time to watch programmes I've explicitly recorded anyway. So recreating season passes is going to be problematic.

I think it wouldn't be so bad if the Telewest EPG was presented in the clever way TiVo does it. The TiVo EPG fits a lot more programmes into the space available. On the other hand, once you have found the programme you want, setting the recording is a very fast process, one key press and the text background of the programme goes red instantly to reflect the recording being set.

You can set start and end padding, but it applies to all recordings. But since there are two recording tuners, I don't foresee this being a problem for me in practice.

Then I set up recordings for Space Cadets. After a trip out to see Doom at the cinema, I came home to watch it. 

One additional irritation seems to be that certain programmes will always require you to enter a PIN before you can watch the recording. It seems you cannot turn parental control off completely, very annoying if you have no kids.

Oh dear, all it's recorded is a black screen. 

Early this afternoon I tried two simultaneous recordings. On watching one back, the picture kept breaking up and it kept losing the sound. 

So I tried the obvious tactic of rebooting the box. After reboot, it says TVDrive service not available, please phone Telewest Customer Care. I have a technician coming back next week.


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## AMc

Thanks for the review Karl. It all sounded quite encouraging up to the last 4 paragraphs, then worse for the last 3 and then that final one...
Reminds me of when my Pace box died and TW 'hurried round' in just under a week.

Loving TeleWest at the moment - just found out that Blueyonder have just deleted all my mail because I hadn't accessed the account for 90 days.


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## davisa

An interesting read, especially as I've been told no TVDrive availability until Q1 next year.

I think the lack of programme search and soft padding would both be a show stopper for me  I REALLY do have no idea what various channels show - and after years of TiVo I really don't care!

Please do keep your thoughts and observations coming...


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## cwaring

davisa said:


> An interesting read, especially as I've been told no TVDrive availability until Q1 next year.


http://www.telewestinfo.co.uk/news.shtml#TVDrive
There are 400 actual customers (as opposed to TW employees) who are trialing it this month, before a general release in Q1 next year. Lucky so-and-so's


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## dave h-j

cwaring said:


> Lucky so-and-so's :([/QUOTE]
> :D B... and a broken box doesn't sound lucky to me..


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## cwaring

True, but being able to review it for my site would be great. Plus, I still have my Tivo


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## HyperionX

Thanks for the insight Karl, but could you clarify something for me please? Did I misread or does the TVDrive have a "season pass" like functionality?

I think I saw soft padding (thank any deity that's listening!!) and multiple tuners (for that alone I'd be tempted to sacrifice a first born!)

Thanks in advance!


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## cwaring

I'm certain it does have something similar. How reliable it is I don't know and hope Karl can tell us all


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## karl

HyperionX said:


> Thanks for the insight Karl, but could you clarify something for me please? Did I misread or does the TVDrive have a "season pass" like functionality?
> 
> I think I saw soft padding (thank any deity that's listening!!) and multiple tuners (for that alone I'd be tempted to sacrifice a first born!)


I can confirm that TVDrive certainly does have "season pass" like functionality. Not sure how sophisticated it is in terms of rescheduling, first run only, no duplicate episodes, 28 day rules etc.

You can set padding options, but it is a global setting for all recordings. I'm not sure what happens when 2 programmes are recording in "pad time" and a third recording is scheduled to start, but I *think* the third is delayed rather than cancelled. In any case, having 2 recording tuners and a third viewing tuner should make clashes less likely. Also, there are options for clash resolution.

I'm hoping that my box will get fixed tomorrow. Just to clarify, only the recording functionality of my box is currently broken, and it turns out TiVo can control TVDrive as if it was a regular set-top box using the front IR blaster. Whilst it's disappointing to have problems, it is after all a pilot scheme.

Will try to post more once my box is working properly again!


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## cwaring

karl said:


> ...and it turns out TiVo can control TVDrive as if it was a regular set-top box using the front IR blaster.


Fron IR blaster? You sure? Does that mean the TVD uses standard IR and not IrDA? Also, I assume it controls one of the tuners so, theoretically, you could use the third TVD tuner to record something on Tivo while watching something previously recorded on said Tivo.

I can feel a feedback-loop coming on


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## sanderton

karl said:


> I wanted it because I'm planning to get HDTV next year ... With two 120GB drives in my TiVo and recording everything in Basic


Nothing like going from one extreme to the other!


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## HyperionX

Thanks Karl. Great work. Thanks for taking the time to use the device so exhaustively and letting us know so thoroughly and quickly :up:.

I look forward to more info about the TVDrive - especially about the "season pass functionality".  

I am assuming that the TVDrives are considered virtually ready for "public consumption" and this is the final stage testing....so we shouldn't expect to see too much diffferent from the final release...


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## ash_bluewomble

Does it look like it would be possible to use the TVDrive alongside a TiVo? i.e. have TiVo control one of the tuners and the TVDrive use the other 2 to record it's stuff? Would this work? Would you still be able to watch programs from the TVDrive (or Teleport) without it affecting the TiVo's recordings?

If this works, this setup surely provides the best of both worlds? Flexible, large, reliable and extensible TiVo, along side the TVDrive, which is unproven technology (and sounds a little unreliable in beta tests) offering help for resolving conflicts with TiVo, Teleport and HD recordings....


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## teresatt

This is exactly what I'm hoping to do. TVDrive sounds great but I bet it'll still be dissapointing compared to TiVo.


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## childe

There is one feature of the TVdrive which I don't think has been commented on, but which could become a Tivo killer; it supports High Definition TV. I know there is no content yet, but there will be soon. Once I can afford a HD TV and the majority of the content is HD, I think that will be the end of the road for my Tivo, unless there are very compelling reasons to stick with it.

In case there are some Tivo features that I can't bear to lose (Wishlists for instance), would there be any way of using the Tivo to control the TVdrive which could then record HD content? That would be brilliant.


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## cwaring

I have a feeling that I have been told there is something like Wishlists in the TVD. Maybe Karl could confirm?


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## nickriley

Is there any more info about the TVDrive - I for one am eager to hear reviews of the hardware and software


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## HyperionX

Maybe I'm being daft but I wondered why soft padding would be necessary...? If you have multiple tuners and an EPG that is "constantly" updated (either at regular intervals - not once a day! - or in real-time) wouldn't padding be redundant...?  

I ask because I find I have to use it on TiVo because some of the channel providers use program start and finish times as rough guide lines especially during "reality tv season"...

On a slightly separate point, is it safe to assume that the TVDrive's channel changing is integral and therefore should avoid/eliminate some of the channel changing anomalies that can arise with the IR Wand? I speak as someone who recently set TiVo to record a repeat of the new Battlestar Galactica pilot show second episode and woke to watch a riveting 1 1/2 hours of VH1 Xmas specials  

Thanks again....now all I have to do is hope that ntl and Telewest merge in time for me to take advantage of the TVDrive...


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## sanderton

If only the TV companies were that accurate and reliable!

If you've been recording Family Guy and American Dad over Xmas you'll have seem why soft padding was needed, even ona dual tuner machine.


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## ericd121

HyperionX said:


> Maybe I'm being daft but I wondered why soft padding would be necessary...? If you have multiple tuners and an EPG that is "constantly" updated (either at regular intervals - not once a day! - or in real-time) wouldn't padding be redundant...?


That would be true if the programmes were served up as discrete units, like Homechoice does, I believe; 
however, if programmes are being recorded from the broadcasters' live streams, then, as Stuart says, recordings will need padding because the broadcasters supply incorrect, or at least disingenuous, schedule data.


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## HyperionX

Thanks and a Happy New Year to all!!


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## childe

Karl - any further TVdrive feedback now you've had it for a few weeks?


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## ericd121

I, too, would be interested, particularly in whether there is *any* High Definition programming;
*Bleak House* and *Life in the Undergrowth* were both recorded in HD so I'm wondering if TeleWest actually broadcast those versions.


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## karl

Telewest came and swapped my box, I've now had TVDrive working (almost) properly for a couple of weeks now. 

I say almost as I have had a few more glitches. Nothing too serious, although I have needed to reboot a few times (could not get out of the TVGuide). Sometimes, after watching a recording and then going to the TVGuide, the TVGuide seems to get confused about what day it is - it occasionally thinks it's the day of the recording.

The thing that strikes me the most about comparing TiVo and TVDrive, and I'm sure this will come as no surprise to anyone here, is just how good the UI designers at TiVo were. One example is, when you come to the end of a recording (which is itself a challenge as there is no 15-minute jump, just fast forward and rewind at various speeds), TVDrive gives you three options for where to go next - "Recorded Programmes", "View Again" or "Live TV". I don't know if it's just me, but "View Again" seems really wierd. Why would I want to do that straight away? Obviously "Delete" would be a better choice. However, after selecting "Recorded Programmes" the just viewed programme usually (although, I think, not always) is the selected one so you can delete it quite easily. As I said though the biggest pain is it's not easy to jump to the end of a programme in the first place. One plus point over TiVo though is that the list of recorded programmes does show which recordings you have part-viewed or fully-viewed before (i.e. you do know which programmes you've watched in their entirety).

Another thing I do like about the TVDrive is the unit itself has a digital clock/playback location display. The onscreen display is just a counter though.

I can confirm that TiVo will control the non-recording tuner of the TVDrive via the front IR blaster, so it is possible to use the two together. 

One interesting feature is sleep mode, which means that temporary recordings are not made outside of peak hours (Weekdays 15:00-23:00, weekends 07:00-23:00). During sleep mode an icon is superimposed on the bottom left of the screen and Ok needs to be pressed to reactivate the TVDrive. I guess this could affect TiVo recordings.

As far as HDTV is concerned, this is one of the reasons I got TVDrive. Currently the entire series of "The Blue Planet" is available through Teleport, but that's it at the moment as far as I know (don't have an HDTV yet anyway). As for HD interfaces, there is an HDMI port (and it says some content may only be available this way due to licensing restrictions), and a component output also for HD (is this the same as DVI? dunno). Looks like HDMI is the way to go when buying a HDTV set.

Regarding wishlists and the like, TVDrive has no such functionality, and indeed this area is to me the biggest advantage of TiVo. You schedule recordings by selecting them in the 8-day TVGuide, and you can choose to record all episodes of a series (or, bizarrely, all episodes that week). You can do the same thing in the mini guide. That's it.

On the whole, I'm reasonably happy with the TVDrive. It is a pain that you can't select programmes to record by name, and the other major irritation is the need to input PIN codes for parental control for certain programmes - there seems to be no way to fully turn off parental control, and some pretty innocuous programmes seem to be protected.


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## teresatt

Thanks so much for the feedback Karl. It's a shame about not being able to set a recording by searching for it's name. We rarely know the date or time of a programme that we want to record and often we don't even know what channel it's on. It means that we'll still have to have a seperate programme guide in order to set recordings. That rather defeats one of the purposes of a PVR.

For a given programme on the EPG, can you view upcoming episodes like you can on TiVo and see whether any are scheduled to be recorded. Do series links pick up every singe showing including repeats or are they intelligent like TiVo and only pick up those not shown recently?

Is there a bookmark facility so that if you stop watching partway through a recording, when you come back to it you are where you left it?

You say that TiVo can control the non recording tuner, but I take it that there's only one output from TVDrive. So if TiVo is recording, you can't watch another channel or recording on TVDrive.

How does the TVDrive handle it's disk space. Does it expire recordings or do you have to manualy delete them. Does it prevent you setting more programmes to record when it's out of disk space?

From your feedback, Karl, I'm impressed that Telewest seem to have implemented some advanced PVR features and TVDrive should be able to compare favourably with Sky+ and defintely better than the majority of FreeView PVRs. HD is also a definite bonus. I've only got an SD screen, but HD material looks a lot better than SD.

In your opinion Karl, is TVDrive good enough to, dare I say it, ditch TiVo? I've just had a real scare wih my TiVo when I though it was broken, so I'd love to know that there is a viable alternative.

Thanks.


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## Richardr

karl said:


> One interesting feature is sleep mode, which means that temporary recordings are not made outside of peak hours (Weekdays 15:00-23:00, weekends 07:00-23:00).


Out of interest, what are temporary recordings?


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## karl

teresatt said:


> For a given programme on the EPG, can you view upcoming episodes like you can on TiVo and see whether any are scheduled to be recorded.


Not exactly, but if you are recording a whole series you can get a list of episodes and then view some info about each episode. The information seems shorter than the Tribune data. TiVo definitely better here.



teresatt said:


> Do series links pick up every singe showing including repeats or are they intelligent like TiVo and only pick up those not shown recently?


Haven't worked that out yet.



teresatt said:


> Is there a bookmark facility so that if you stop watching partway through a recording, when you come back to it you are where you left it?


Yes.



teresatt said:


> You say that TiVo can control the non recording tuner, but I take it that there's only one output from TVDrive. So if TiVo is recording, you can't watch another channel or recording on TVDrive.


Well, there is a separate SCART for VCR, but I believe that is only for copying recordings. You can of course record 3 channels at once though. Isn't that enough 



teresatt said:


> How does the TVDrive handle it's disk space. Does it expire recordings or do you have to manualy delete them. Does it prevent you setting more programmes to record when it's out of disk space?


AFAIK you have to manually delete them. I haven't managed to run out of disk space yet!



teresatt said:


> In your opinion Karl, is TVDrive good enough to, dare I say it, ditch TiVo? I've just had a real scare wih my TiVo when I though it was broken, so I'd love to know that there is a viable alternative.


I think the answer to that depends on individual circumstances and requirements. In my case, my TiVo hardware seems to be failing (although I do have a spare power supply that I haven't got round to fitting). On the whole, the TiVo software is clearly superior to the TVDrive software. However, considering the package as a whole, both systems have their plus and minus points. For example, the fact that the recording function is integrated into the set top box has definite advantages, and of course if you want HD without Sky, what choice have you got?

It seems to me that UK TiVo hardware is pretty unreliable. Don't know whether this is a software design flaw - recording all the time? TVDrive stops recording all the time during off-peak times. Temporary recordings refers to the 90-minute live TV buffer.

The other point is, there is no reason of course that the TVDrive software won't be improved in the future. In a few years time when we want to record eveything in HD, I don't think TiVo will be the answer.


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## teresatt

karl said:


> Well, there is a separate SCART for VCR, but I believe that is only for copying recordings. You can of course record 3 channels at once though. Isn't that enough


I was hoping to still be able to fully run TiVo off TVDrive and have access to the TVDrive features just in case I didn't completely get on with TVDrive. When the TVDrive box was first announced it was stated that it would have multiroom capability, but it seems that Telewest have dropped this in favour of renting the existing old boxes for £5 a month.

Do you know if the VCR output is composite only? Most people now have DVD recorders and would be very much better off with an RGB output. I'll be surprised if it's RGB.

The other huge issue that concerns me is widescreen switching. I can't bear to watch cropped or stretched 4:3. Karl, are you using HDMI or component? What happens with 4:3 programmes, do you have to change aspect manually? Does the picture get output simultaneously to all outputs including HDMI, component and scart. I could use the component output for the picture and route the scart output into my aspect switcher box. It plugs into the serial port on my plasma and changes it's aspect when triggered off the scart. I currently output my TiVo into my plasma VGA input via a converter so I use the aspect switcher.

Thanks again for all your feedback and taking the time to answer my many questions.


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## HyperionX

Thanks Karl for all of the "work" you've done so far reviewing the TVDrive. Much of the information has been very valuable.

Whilst I think TiVo is an excellent PVR, it's not supported in the UK in terms of evolving as TV usage and presentation evolves (multiple tuners, HD, etc)

The TVDrive is increasingly looking like a viable replacement (or at least supplement) for my aging TiVo that means that I won't have to change my TV provider.

BTW one point I thought the maximum you could record was two channels simultaneously whilst watching the third or watching a recording...?

Have to say I'd be extremely happy if the TVDrive can intelligently distinguish between first shows and repeats...TiVo's good but I already get too many repeats recorded as it is...


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## cwaring

> It seems to me that UK TiVo hardware is pretty unreliable.


Personally, I would disagree. I've had very few hardware-related problems with my Tivo. None, in fact, other than hard drive stuff.



karl said:


> Don't know whether this is a software design flaw - recording all the time?


If you're referring to the 'Live Buffer' then it's designed to do that and I find it useful sometimes. Sorry if I've mis-understood your point 

Personally, I can't wait to try TVD and review it on my site


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## karl

teresatt said:


> I was hoping to still be able to fully run TiVo off TVDrive and have access to the TVDrive features just in case I didn't completely get on with TVDrive.


Well, you can almost do this, you just won't have full access to TVDrive features when TiVo is recording.

Don't know the answer to the rest of your questions, as at the moment my set up is with just a plain old 4:3 TV. What I can tell you is you do have to choose which output port to use.

Since you are a TW customer, my advice would be suck-it-and-see as soon as TVD is generally available. Since you're renting it, what have you got to lose? Have fun!


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## karl

HyperionX said:


> BTW one point I thought the maximum you could record was two channels simultaneously whilst watching the third or watching a recording...?


That's right...unless TiVo is also recording the output from the TVDrive


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## karl

cwaring said:


> If you're referring to the 'Live Buffer' then it's designed to do that and I find it useful sometimes. Sorry if I've mis-understood your point


I am referring to the live buffer. It just seems to me that TVD has quite a good feature in that it doesn't record everything outside of peak hours, so the hard disk is getting a rest every day. As you say, hard drive failure must be the number one bugbear of us TiVo owners, and I can't help feeling 24/7 recording may contribute to this.

Most people are unlikely to be watching live TV at 4am in the morning, so taking advantage of this to (try to) improve machine reliability seems like a good idea.


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## teresatt

karl said:


> Since you are a TW customer, my advice would be suck-it-and-see as soon as TVD is generally available. Since you're renting it, what have you got to lose? Have fun!


Are you tied into a 12 month contract? If so I would have £120 to lose. However, I am quite hopeful about TVDrive. It sounds a lot better than I expected and hopefully future software updates will make it better.

It's a shame about having to select the output as it means I won't be able to use the component output. Manually changing aspect drives me mad and we'll have 4:3 programmes for years to come yet, so I'll be restricted to scart. If I want to watch HD, I'll have to switch over to component. It'll be a long time before there's a significant amount of HD available anyway. I have made the assumption that there is no way that auto aspect switching will work over anything other than scart. Most manufacturers don't support line 23 switching, only by the scart pin. what's going to happen in the future when everything is HDMI? Will all output be scaled up to HD resolution and 4:3 programmes have the side bars built in?


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## cwaring

karl said:


> I am referring to the live buffer. It just seems to me that TVD has quite a good feature in that it doesn't record everything outside of peak hours, so the hard disk is getting a rest every day. As you say, hard drive failure must be the number one bugbear of us TiVo owners, and I can't help feeling 24/7 recording may contribute to this.


Some would argue that it's the start/stop of a hard drive that reduces it's life-span while running it 24/7 is what it was designed for. I don't know


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## HyperionX

karl said:


> That's right...unless TiVo is also recording the output from the TVDrive


Thanks for the clarification.


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## doctor.steve

I'm in the same boat as Teresa, I do like the sound of this new product...
Various reasons (like single box solution), however I would hope to use it alongside Tivo at least to start off with.

Karl - one question (you briefly touched on the answer).
The user interface. I have teleport and it's awfully slow in comparison to bringing up the tivo menus. Is the same type of interface employed for the tvdrive?
What is the speed like (or do you just get used to it?)

Thanks for your comments so far also... :up:


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## teresatt

Karl, anymore feedback on TVDrive, especially as you've had it for a few weeks now? Has it grown on you or are you missing your TiVo? There's quite a bit being reported on the Digital Spy forums, but I'm really interested in what a TiVo user thinks.

Thanks.


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## ...coolstream

Reading the comments about where Tivo is unable to compete with trends in TV, I see that Tivo are in fact adapting _probably only Stateside though_ 

It would be so good to see something like this one day available in the UK
http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/n...ries-3-video-interview-first-look-0108051437/


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## mikerr

karl said:


> I As you say, hard drive failure must be the number one bugbear of us TiVo owners, and I can't help feeling 24/7 recording may contribute to this.


The number one killer of HDDs is excessive heat, and tivo have reasonable cooling. Running them 24/7 with constant seek, and constant writing does them no harm whatsoever.

Maxtor/quantum drives as used in tivos are one of the least reliable makes of all hdds though....



> Most people are unlikely to be watching live TV at 4am in the morning, so taking advantage of this to (try to) improve machine reliability seems like a good idea.


IMO one of tivo's greatest strengths is that it watches and records tv 24hrs (suggestions) so I have a list of programmes ready to watch when I sit down.

One feature I always wanted from tivo (apart from another tuner) was the ability to *avoid* recording programmes at peak time.
I.e. if there is a repeat of any programme on in the early hours, record that, so I have the tuner free for my channel hopping.

Having said that, its always a disappointment to find that I`m watching live TV, and the fast forward button doesn't work


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## childe

This was posted by richard_hamblen on another thread here. I'm copying it to here so hopefully all TV Drive comments can be kept in one place. Any other feedback?

=====
feedback on TVDrive

season pass manager
1. You may only want to keep a few of the programmes and auto delete the oldest. For example I only want to keep the latest episode of xxx Or you may only want to keep 5 episodes of xxx  this isnt possible with the TVDrive
2. When you need space, TVdrive does not delete the oldest programmes.
3. Because season pass is not really season pass it is record this programme in this time slot each week. If you only want new episodes recorded not old episodes - first runs only there is no way to tell it this.
4. What isnt clear is if you add a season pass and the season finishes, will it start to record a new season of the series when it returns.
5. No Wishlists  I cant record programmes that meet a criteria  such as movies staring xxx or directed by yyy or programmes with red in the title.
6. you have no todo list to check what has been done and why things havent been done.

Record programmes
1. it would be good to use the alphabet selection to see the list of programmes to find what you are after. Currently you have to wade through the timetable.
2. the search facility on programmes takes about 2-5 minutes to load  it is cringe worthy. If you go to the option to select a programme by genre (thinking it will be quicker than wading through the programme schedule, youll die of old age before you find your programme. 
3 when you press record part way through a programme, it records from when you press the button. 
4. if you press the record when you are watching from the buffer it wont allow you to record the programme. You cant start recording from the buffer, you can only start when in live tv.
5. there is no way to the entire programme once it has started, if you come in part way through, you loose the start. HOWEVER  there is a 90 minute buffer, so you can rewind and pause till youre ready to settle down. Just hope youve not come 89 minutes into the programme.

Replay
1. I personally like having the record bar that Tivo give you to tell you how far through the programme you are. (TVDrive uses a timer and numbers on the bottom left of the screen - in delay it just says how far behind realtime you are)
2. need a skip to end  you can do it but it isnt obvious how and the only way Ive found means you loose the buffer!

Menu jumping
1. you cant pause and then go into the menus when watching buffered content.
Comes up with a box to say you will go back to live TV. This means you have to rewind after exiting the menus, to get back to where you were.

Buffered content
1. it has a great 90minute buffer, but you cant do much with it other than pause and shuttle forward and back. 
2. you have no idea how long the programme is in the buffer, you only know where you are compared to real-time.

Video output
1. there is no output on the VCR socket unless you are transferring a recording to the VCR
2. when you switch to HDTV, 4:3 ratio programmes are not stretched or zoomed to fit a widescreen via the box  some tvs can stretch/zoom HDTV some cant. ALL HDTVs are widescreen and so you get a black borders to the left and right if you dont stretch. 
As all SD widescreen TVs stretch and zoom, it is not an issue with SCART output. 
3. you cant have dual output between HDMI and SCART  it is one or the other. (think this is due to the decoders)
And you might want this if you have a second TV connected via a video sender. 
=============


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## childe

For information, Telewest have today started a national rollout of TVDrive. It would be good to get more feedback here from any new users. I'm in an NTL area so it does not immediately affect me, but NTL will probably follow suit with something similar in the not too distant future. As my Tivo is now over 5 years old I am very keen to know how well this alternative stacks up, and it would be useful to get feedback from a range of users.


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## mikerr

Ordered it today, have to wait 3 weeks for install though - free install, and £5 a month.
TW orderline: 0845 1420220

I don't think its going to replace my tivos though.


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## AndrewDucker

Hmm, that £5 a month is to keep your current box - it's £10 a month for the TV Drive rental or £15 if you're not on Supreme.

Or am I reading the agreement here:
http://www.telewest.co.uk/html/tv_drive/New_Tabs/index.html
all wrong?


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## cwaring

I think they can probably vary as it how they want to as necessary, according to how stroppy the customer gets


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## mikerr

I currently have 2 boxes, so that might be something to do with it


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## B33K34

--When you need space, TVdrive does not delete the oldest programmes.
--Because season pass is not really season pass it is record this programme in this time slot each week. If you only want new episodes recorded not old episodes - first runs only there is no way to tell it this.

That's two failings that make it a DVR rather than a PVR in my book. Not good news.


----------



## cyril

B33K34 said:


> --When you need space, TVdrive does not delete the oldest programmes.
> --Because season pass is not really season pass it is record this programme in this time slot each week. If you only want new episodes recorded not old episodes - first runs only there is no way to tell it this.
> 
> That's two failings that make it a DVR rather than a PVR in my book. Not good news.


I don't think many US TiVo users think much of the Scientific Atlanta 8000 series , on which the TV Drive is based:

http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/topic/171807-1.html


----------



## HyperionX

It's looking a little rough for the TVDrive at least in the first release...the main hope I guess is that since this is an ongoing product, the software can still be updated, improved upon and released to the (UK) public...unlike TiVo  

It's a real shame that TiVo doesn't seem able to find a happy medium with DVR hardware manufacturers to integrate their excellent software with. And in this case I'm not only talking about plain hardware only manufacturers (i.e Thomson, etc) but well know customer recognised brands (i.e. Sony, Toshiba, etc) with more global strategy and pull

I guess a good example of this might be the successful blending of Sony and Ericsson for mobile phones - Sony with the kudos, brand design and build quality but little presence in the phone market and Ericsson with the technology and and technical know-how but little style or brand presence in the increasingly customer savvy, satisfaction driven and focussed market. The combined effort has transformed both their roles in the mobile market not to mention kick starting new trends.....but I digress sorry....


----------



## Simon George

I am due to have TV drive delivered in a couple of weeks so I read this thread with interest

I feel there is a point being overlooked here - and that is image quality.

As good as Tivo is - I have the same machine, with disk upgrades from the day they hit the stores - Tivos big weakness as time goes on is picture quality.

I agree that software-wise Tivo has yet to be bettered or even equalled, but put a Tivo image on a large screen (in my case a projector to a 6 foot screen) it becomes readily apparent the extreme compression and therefore image degradation that exists when playing back a Tivo recording. (and that is after running the video feed through filters and component scalars to tidy up the image) 

Add to this the introduction of upscaling to HD by DVD players now readily available and the contrast becomes quite eyewatering. 

HD, even upscaled SD DVD to HD is good, it is very good. The contrast to conventional TV is amazing and you as become aware of the improvement, then you start to notice artifacts in normal TV more easily.

Since 3 series Tivo's are not planned for the UK (as far as I understand) anyone who wants to enjoy PVR and HD, and has no choice but to use telewest ,- TV Drive is a must have.

But looking at the thread - I can still have both so there is not much to complain about.


----------



## cyril

Simon George said:


> I agree that software-wise Tivo has yet to be bettered or even equalled, but put a Tivo image on a large screen (in my case a projector to a 6 foot screen) it becomes readily apparent the extreme compression and therefore image degradation that exists when playing back a Tivo recording. (and that is after running the video feed through filters and component scalars to tidy up the image)


I assume you have tried mode 0 hacks to up Tivo image quality?

If that's not enough you can always try the SDI mod.

I'm currently saving up for a 65" plasma, which I will hook up to my mode 0 TiVos.
I'll add a scaler and SDI if required.


----------



## mikerr

Simon George said:


> put a Tivo image on a large screen (in my case a projector to a 6 foot screen) it becomes readily apparent the extreme compression and therefore image degradation that exists when playing back a Tivo recording.


When you have a nice big screen, you can see its not just tivo that suffers from compression and pixelation - its there on the original broadcast, the horror channel is particularly bad...

Whats the odds sky reduce its bitrates on normal channels even further when they release HD as a chargeable extra?

Anyway roll on the 15th for TVdrive - can't see it replacing my tivos, but at £5 its fine to resolve clashes and there is the "new gadget factor"


----------



## Simon George

mikerr said:


> When you have a nice big screen, you can see its not just tivo that suffers from compression and pixelation - its there on the original broadcast, the horror channel is particularly bad...


Agreed, some channels can look truly awful even when bypassing Tivo. However even a hacked tivo is still ultimately compressing a signal that already has compression artifacts built in to them from the transmission company (whether DTT, satallite or cable). Thats where Tivo suffers, it will always be worse than the original transmission, and since for Tivo that means SD it will suffer ever more in comparison with any service that offers HD on PVR

I am sure that as pressure to expand HD grows with the market, then the remaining channels will be squeezed and the amplified differential used in turn to justify a complete migration to HD.

So how does one lobby the powers that be to back HD Tivo in the UK?


----------



## cwaring

If anyone wants to have a look at the user guide for the TVDrive you can download it from here. It's a PDF of course; 1.2mb.


----------



## karl

teresatt said:


> Karl, anymore feedback on TVDrive, especially as you've had it for a few weeks now? Has it grown on you or are you missing your TiVo?
> Thanks.





doctor.steve said:


> I'm in the same boat as Teresa, I do like the sound of this new product...
> Various reasons (like single box solution), however I would hope to use it alongside Tivo at least to start off with.
> 
> Karl - one question (you briefly touched on the answer).
> The user interface. I have teleport and it's awfully slow in comparison to bringing up the tivo menus. Is the same type of interface employed for the tvdrive?
> What is the speed like (or do you just get used to it?)


Well, mid January my TVDrive stopped working again and has only come back to life in the last couple of days. Apparently it was a problem at the server end (code 2001). The frustrating thing is, this type of problem stops you accessing even existing recordings; if there's something wrong with communications to the server, no TVDrive functions work at all. On the plus side, when it came back all my scheduled recordings had been made - I just couldn't watch any of them (so now I can watch all of Life on Mars after all!)

Thankfully the non-TVDrive functions of the set-top box were all fine, so I was able to carry on using my TiVo. Ironically one of the reasons I got the TVDrive is I was having problems with my twin 120GB TiVo. I put my original Quantum disk back and everything is fine again.

It was quite frustrating dealing with Telewest customer services. I'm a bit puzzled as to why Telewest were apparently not interested in feedback from their pilot users. I would have expected a feedback email address or private discussion board or whatever, but there was nothing.

With regards to the speed of the menus, I don't personally find it a problem.

My number one gripe, apart from it not working, is the parental control thing. It seems ridiculous to have to put in a PIN code to watch recordings of programmes as innocuous as Question Time and American Idol!

I must admit, now my TiVo is reliable again, I am in two minds about whether to keep TVDrive. I was planning to get HDTV this year, but it seems like a bit of a minefield. Apparently you have to get 1080p resolution for "true" HD (compatible with Blu-ray, PS3 etc), so you need to spend £2800 on a Philips 37PF9830. Maybe. And I am trying to cut down the amount of TV I watch - albeit it not very successfully!

I do like the way the TVDrive twin-tuner recording process never interferes with watching live TV (i.e. never getting the "TiVo needs to change the channel" message) - but is it worth £120 a year? Hmm.


----------



## AMc

karl said:


> I do like the way the TVDrive twin-tuner recording process never interferes with watching live TV (i.e. never getting the "TiVo needs to change the channel" message) - but is it worth £120 a year? Hmm.


 I currently have the 'Supreme' package and FilmFour. Honestly I have real problems finding enough things on all those channels that interest me enough to record with Tivo and fill a normal 8-11pm viewing slot. There is (virtually) nothing that I want to watch live - the exception is going to be the World Cup this summer - but I'm not a club footie fan so that's just a few weeks.
I've been idly contemplating Freeview - esp. as FilmFour is going free soon. My suspicion is I could happily do with a Freeview DVR to record FilmFour programming and a cheap Freeview box for Tivo and save myself £240 a year in Telewest subs.
Then move my broadband to a cheap ADSL provider and cut £25 pm>£15...

Hmmmm


----------



## cwaring

AMc said:


> I've been idly contemplating Freeview - esp. as FilmFour is going free soon. My suspicion is I could happily do with a Freeview DVR to record FilmFour programming and a cheap Freeview box for Tivo ...


Why the extra box/DVR just for FF, or were you meaning so you can record two channels at the same time?



> Then move my broadband to a cheap ADSL provider and cut £25 pm>£15...


£25. Is that TW's 2 or 4 mb service? Have you been upgraded yet? Just wondered


----------



## RichardJH

> £25. Is that TW's 2 or 4 mb service? Have you been upgraded yet? Just wondered


Interesting comment ? I pay £25 for Blueyonder Broadband Complete how will I know whether it is 2mb 4 mb


----------



## Simon George

RichardJH said:


> Interesting comment ? I pay £25 for Blueyonder Broadband Complete how will I know whether it is 2mb 4 mb


£25 buys you 4mb


----------



## cwaring

Even though I run that TW site I still get confused by their pricing sometimes, especially pre- and post- speed-uplift differences 

So yes, £25 *was* 1mb but is now (or at least by the end of April) 4mb. I don't think that's a bad price; especially seeing as how you don't have to live right next door to the telephone exchange to get it


----------



## mini__me

If you lived next door to the exchange you'd get 22MB 

I'm 2.4km straight line and get 5MB in the daytime 4MB at night, thats with a real line length of 3.3km


----------



## cwaring

Of course, I was having a dig at ADSL services  TW Broadband doesn't use the phone line so distance is not a problem.


----------



## kmusgrave

cwaring said:


> Of course, I was having a dig at ADSL services  TW Broadband doesn't use the phone line so distance is not a problem.


Just the problem that you get slower speeds for more money...  (I used to have BY but dumped it for a faster ADSL service. No-one seems to have told the people at Telewest though as they have forgotten to turn it off and haven;t asked for the modem back  )


----------



## ericd121

kmusgrave said:


> Just the problem that you get slower speeds for more money...  (I used to have BY but dumped it for a faster ADSL service.


Tho' Blueyonder doesn't have any download quotas AIUI, whereas many ADSL ISPs do; 
*PlusNet * allows 20Gb of Usenet, FTP and P2P traffic a month, and then *pushes such traffic down the priority list*, resulting in slower speeds.

(Sorry for keeping this thread off-topic).


----------



## kmusgrave

Indeed. I've made sure I got an unlimited service. I need to as I need it for my source of HiDef TV programs


----------



## AMc

cwaring said:


> Why the extra box/DVR just for FF, or were you meaning so you can record two channels at the same time?


Exactly that - I get little value out of FF at the moment because the films I'm most interested in invariably clash with something on at prime time. I can only assume that FTA this will happen more often. If I can have a dedicated 'FilmFour' box that records at broadcast quality then I can set manual recordings (by reading the Tivo guide) and keep that standalone. Ironically a reason to get TVDrive but a years subs would buy the Freeview box outright.



cwaring said:


> £25. Is that TW's 2 or 4 mb service? Have you been upgraded yet? Just wondered


Great question - a while back they renamed my 1Mb connection to 'Blueyonder Broadband Complete'. http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/blueyonder/getContent.jspx?page=785754&group=ser_internet_namechanges
Looking here suggests I'm being charged £25pm for 1MB (+£10 a month for the landline) - so I really should do something about it as an equivalent ADSL line + phone line should be £15 + £10 or £120 a year!


----------



## cwaring

I'd stay where you are for now. After the upgrades, you'll be on 4mb  See here for details.


----------



## ericd121

I used to play around with the *Telewest Quote* page, seeing how much various packages might cost.

My favourite option was middling broadband, £25 and basic telly, £5.50;
a fast (1Mb soon to be 4Mb) connection with an adequate telly line-up, at £30 a month.

However, this option is no longer available, as stated at the foot of that page, 
"*All TV packages must be taken with a Telewest phone service starting from an additional £10.50 a month*"

I was thinking about using VOIP, but, now, at £41 a month, I may as well stay with PlusNet and FreeView , and BT  .


----------



## AMc

> I'd stay where you are for now. After the upgrades, you'll be on 4mb.


If 4Mb was important then I would, but contrary to popular opinion unless you routinely download movies then this type of speed is overkill.
I work for an internet performance monitoring company and we use 2Mb links (albeit burstable higher) but at a base rate we don't see any benefit in anything faster.


----------



## cwaring

Okay, well how about 2mb for £17.99? That's what I'm on.


----------



## pgogborn

ericd121 said:


> I was thinking about using VOIP, but, now, at £41 a month, I may as well stay with PlusNet and FreeView , and BT  .


An interesting BT broadband and Freeview combination is getting closer. BT is having a big push upgrading their wholesale broadband to 8mb.


> The new speed, already available in parts of the country from rival ISPs including Cable & Wireless's Bulldog and UK Online, will provide plenty of bandwidth for customers to use BT's planned Next Generation TV product while surfing the web or using internet telephony.
> 
> The TV service will allow Freeview users to call up and watch for free any show broadcast by the platform's channels over the previous week. It will also have pay-as-you-go video on demand, allowing people to watch premium channels without needing a subscription >
> http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1722296,00.html


(I don't use PlusNet as an ISP, but I do use its exchange checker which says BT give an estimated estimated for enabling my exchange for Max DSL of 31/03/06)


----------



## childe

Any more TVDrive users yet?


----------



## cwaring

Yes. Me. Obviously you can't see the big cheesy grin on my face but that's probably 'cos the thing just went ka-ka on me  Oh well, it's not like I haven't had to re-boot the Tivo ever .

First impressions are really good, apart fom the lack of "Search By Title" for setting recordings .

I think having one of these is _definately_ going to be more work than a Tivo but maybe the good points will outweigh the bad .

It's really strange to be sat watching BBCN24 while recording "Charmed" on LivingTV and a music-video show on E4 and all in perfect cable quality 

BTW, sorry for thr smiley overload


----------



## daveh

Do you have a HDTV to take advantage of their HD offering as described here?
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds30252.html


----------



## cwaring

You've got to be joking! I've only just gone W/S thanks to my brother giving me his old TV. HD is _way_ off for me


----------



## 6022tivo

I did read this HD Telewest service via the teleport box and service thingy.

Also at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4793774.stm

I suppose that Telewest got ahead of SKY with the HD service, that is nice to know.


----------



## Simon George

childe said:


> Any more TVDrive users yet?


Me too. It arrived yesterday

The previous posts seem to have it about right on the software - not nearly as good or convenient as Tivo

Still the picture quality via HDMI even for standard def programmes is superb - the best I have seen.

There are still motion artifacts to be seen if you are looking for them, but they are much less intrusive than on anything else I have seen (in broadcast TV terms). I am looking for them on a 60'' screen.

However I have not cracked one problem - how to hook up the Tivo to the TV Drive box. As I am using HDMI, there is no RGB signal form the TV scart. I can only use the VCR scart, but the picture on this is significantly degraded (I am not even sure it is just the composite signal - it looks like it is worse than that), to the point of being hard to watch.

I know that others have married the two together - so how is it done?


----------



## Funkyshaker

I got my TVDrive installed yesterday. I put my Tivo on Ebay a week ago and so far I am very pleased with the transition over to the Telewest box.

I have mine hooked up to a 32" Samsung LCD via HDMI and Scart. The reason for using both connections is because you can't stretch a 4:3 HDMI feed to widescreen and it annoys me seeing so much wasted space on the TV. If I use the scart then no matter what the channel is braodcasting (4:3 or 16:9) I can stretch it to fit. I called Telewest this morning regarding this and there is not much they can do. I will just ahve to switch between the two outputs until a fix comes along.

The menu system, although clunky, works well. Not as well as Tivo though. What would only take a couple of button presses on Tivo seems to take more effort on TVDrive.

I have only set-up one series link (Eastenders for the missus) so I can't comment on how reliable it is. The omission of searching programmes using the alphabet is a big one for me - searching through a whole list of TV listings can take a while on TVDrive.

Picture quality is superb. The HD content (especially Blue Planet) looks great and really shows off what the system can do.

The three tuners work so well - I have successfully recorded two programmes whilst watching another and everything was perfect.

The things that I really miss is Tivo's suggestions. It was always great to see what Tivo recorded for me on the fly!

If anyone would like to ask anything specific then fire away. It really is a great system - still a few things to iron out but as a replacement to Tivo it works extremely well.

I hope this has helped someone?

Dan


----------



## cwaring

Funkyshaker said:


> I got my TVDrive installed yesterday. I put my Tivo on Ebay a week ago and so far I am very pleased with the transition over to the Telewest box.


My Tivo is still hooked-up to my original STB; just in case  A good thing, as it happens as Tivo failed to record "Smallville" the other night (an OAD problem). Recorded fine on TVD though 



> The menu system, although clunky, works well. Not as well as Tivo though. What would only take a couple of button presses on Tivo seems to take more effort on TVDrive.


I noticed that too.



> I have only set-up one series link (Eastenders for the missus) so I can't comment on how reliable it is.


Some are okay while some don't work and some get too many.

eg "Working Lunch" doesn't work and "Smallville" get ALL eps, including the afternoon repeats of last season  They are, apparently, working on it with their EPG data provider.



> The omission of searching programmes using the alphabet is a big one for me - searching through a whole list of TV listings can take a while on TVDrive.


I have mentioned this to them so hopefully they will be implementing this at some point 



> Picture quality is superb. The HD content (especially Blue Planet) looks great and really shows off what the system can do.


Indeed. Gotta love 'direct stream' recording as opposed to the D/A conversion Tivo uses 



> The three tuners work so well - I have successfully recorded two programmes whilst watching another and everything was perfect.


That really does weird you out the first couple of times, doesn't it


----------



## nick.perry

cwaring said:


> My Tivo is still hooked-up to my original STB; just in case


That's exactly what I intend to do (for the short term) when I get my TVDrive next week, but just for the record, I think it has been implied that the TVDrive is controllable directly by the TiVo, but not explicitly confirmed.

Is a different IR set used to control the TVDrive - if so which one works - and is it with or without the IRDA dongle?

TIA. Nick


----------



## Simon George

nick.perry said:


> That's exactly what I intend to do (for the short term) when I get my TVDrive next week, but just for the record, I think it has been implied that the TVDrive is controllable directly by the TiVo, but not explicitly confirmed.
> 
> Is a different IR set used to control the TVDrive - if so which one works - and is it with or without the IRDA dongle?
> 
> TIA. Nick


Yes you can - and because the TV Drive can record without changing channel, or indeed the other way around, you can change channel without affecting what TV Drive is recording, the two devices can work quite well together.

Without IRDA dongle - it works well


----------



## mikerr

Ok, I got tvdrive hooked up to a 37" HD LCD TV, and here are my pros/cons in relation to tivo users:

pros:
HD HD HD ...very nice via HDMI
Records the digital stream... improvement in quality ,mainly noticeable on BBC channels
Menus much faster than both my old Pace box and SA boxes
3 tuners, (2 recording tuners)
has series links for most progs, but other than priorities, no settings 
remembers where you were up to when resuming watching a recording
visually shows whether you have watched any/all of a recording.
one less box (if you get rid of tivo)

cons:

Hit record while a programme is on, and it only records from that point onward, no recording of the past buffer.

It has 3 tuners, but you can only record from 2. the 3rd is reserved for watching tv.
(It will be this 3rd "TV watching" tuner that tivo uses if you connect it up.)

When you are recording 2 channels, and try to record a third, the message box just says "ner ner", and tells you to cancel one of the other recordings, but it doesn't tell you what they are, or give you the option of cancelling them immediately like on tivo. You have to go into tvdrive>planned-recordings>program>cancel, then return to live tv and press record again.

No wishlists, no keyword search, no suggestons, not even an A-Z list of showing programmes - there must be an easier way..anyone?

E.g. setting it to record something that on in the week involves scrolling through several days of programme guides, to find when its on, and you need a good idea of what channel each programme is on to do that.

When playing a recording there's no progress bar (bad omisson!), and no skip start/end/10mins ... just a 2x/4x/8x/16x/32x ff/rew

Basically if all you want is a standard digibox with a simple record feature its ok, but try to do anything fancy and its either tedious, or impossible - I`m thinking of keyword searches here.

I'm going to see if I can use it all weekend without touching tivo, but at present its looking like Tivo is alive and well in this household.

WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST PAY A LICENCE TO TIVO !

Don't get me wrong, If I`d never seen a tivo, I`d think tvdrive was great, its just now that I now what's possible with tivo, I'm finding tvdrive to be rather limited.


----------



## HyperionX

I'd be really interested in how well the series link works....
I also have a couple of questions if you don't mind....

Do you get the same (or similar) record clash warnings on TVD as you do on TiVo if you try to pre-record to many items across the tuners?

Bearing in mind I've read that the series link is more like "_record at this time on this channel every week_" is there scope for padding smart or otherwise?

Sorry if these questions have been asked an answered elsewhere.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## cwaring

At the moment, there is only 'global' padding; ie adds start and end time to _every_ programme. I am hoping they'll "fix" this at some point 

I have yet to try and set more than two recordings at once so don't know exactly what happens but I think you get the choice of which existing upcoming recording to delete.


----------



## HyperionX

Thanks for the info!


----------



## mikerr

Season passes ("Series links"):

You can set priorities for the series links
You can see upcoming episodes (ony 8 days), and stop it recording selected ones manually.

No other options, so no "save only last 1/3/5 eps" like on tivo ... so you'll end up with 50 eps if you record the simpsons, and no repeat/reshowing detection.


Clashes:

A clash is apparently shown as a red exclamation mark in the todo list ("planned recordings") and also on the normal tv guide - I`ve *never* seen this though, it always tells me *immediately* on trying to set the 3rd recording that I can't do it,
and refuses to try.

When this happens it doesn't give me the any other option than "ok", then I have to manually cancel one of the others by going into the guide or todo list to find it,then returning to record the new programme - a very long-winded method!

Interestingly, it seems to have some sort of PDC... from the manual p16:

A recording clash occurs when...
the broadcasters have changed the time that the programme is shown
programmes can overrun resulting in a clash

Now this means that it isn't just timer based... they have some sort of PDC control?


----------



## cwaring

Not PDC but probably more like Sky's EPG, ie it can be dynamically updated. Just my guess, anyway


----------



## mikerr

<continuing the epic no-tivo weekend>
...just noticed you can jump to any specified time in a recording if you have already part watched it, but only on the second viewing ! I`m really missing an onscreen percentage/ total recording time, and a skip forward 10mins button.

In the onscreen help guide the conflict message box is different to what I get, theirs has 3 options: cancel this, fix clash, and view confilcts. I just get one option = "ok" and then have to manually find the clashes myself...

Earlier I switched over to find the film "28 days later" was on. This was already set to record, so it was recording on another tuner.
When I tried to rewind live tv, I couldn't - because I`d only just turned over, but it could have been clever enough to realise live buffer = tuner2 in that case, instead of making me navigate 10 menus to get to the recording.

It much less responsive than tivo, every button press has a half second delay, which is actually the most annoying feature...


----------



## HyperionX

Thanks for the information!

The fact that the season pass/link/thingy is fairly dynamic to changes rather than just a static "record at this time regularly" is encouraging....but (and it's a big but) the fact it can't spot (or perhaps better to say distinguish between) first showing, reshowing and repeats is a little more daunting.

If you watch "ER" you'll find your entire hard drive full after a couple of days  

Still one of the advantages over TiVo at least in this country is that TVD can address some of these issues if Telewest/ntl wants to with regular software updates...


----------



## woobag

Had TV drive installed on Friday and agree with most of the pro's and con's mentioned here. One thing that really bugs me though is the remote. With TiVo you get nice big buttons to control pause and forward/reverse, but on the TV drive they're tiny little ones shoved up the top, not the most convenient place.

The 3 tuners are a great benefit but I'm keeping my TiVo!


----------



## HyperionX

Something that Woobag's last comment made me think about....has anyone tried the new TVDrives with the various all-in-one remotes like the Harmony, etc...?


----------



## JeromeO'Donohoe

I've been told that the VCR output is composite, and letterboxed 4:3 - frankly, unbelievable. Have they not noticed people buying DVD recorders the last couple of years?


----------



## cwaring

Can't comment on the 'composite' issue, but the LB 4:3 is a known bug which they _are_ working on.


----------



## JeromeO'Donohoe

well, i hope for TW users' sake that it's all software, I suspect the composite issue is not which would be a crying shame.


----------



## mikerr

Also noticed it keeps all series linked recordings seperate from normal recordings, in "folders" of their own, so its tidier (but more confusing IMO as you have to navigate to each folder to see if/how many eps are there)
E.g. all eps of ER are in an ER folder, not scattered throughout other recordings

A common theme is "navigating" many menus in comparison to Tivo, which wouldn't be so bad if the menus weren't so SLOW, particularly the tv guide (it can be 10 seconds to page down, ridiculous!)

I assumed each ep would also be listed in "programs by date", but they aren't - I thought it hadn't recorded, then found it under "series recordings"

tip: always press "tv" on the tvdrive-remote when you've finished with it, otherwise tivo won't be able to change channel, and tivo will have 5 hours of TW menu footage recorded ;/


----------



## childe

If there are any old time Tivoers out there (over 4.5 years) they may recall what our wonderful Tivo was like when it was first launched. Whilst it was innovative and better than a VCR, it was by no means perfect. It was buggy and lacked several features which we now take for granted and regard as essential.

Fortunately, Tivo were then interested in the UK market and quickly gave us several bug fixes and a version upgrade which greatly increased the Tivo's reliability and functionality. Presumably the same will apply to TV Drive and, unlike Tivo, I suspect ntl:TW will be around for some years to come.

Therefore there is every reason to believe that over time the TV Drive user experience will converge with and maybe exceed the Tivo user experience, and given its hardware superiority TV Drive will win out in the long run.


----------



## cwaring

ericd121 said:


> However, this option is no longer available, as stated at the foot of that page, "*All TV packages must be taken with a Telewest phone service starting from an additional £10.50 a month*"
> 
> I was thinking about using VOIP, but, now, at £41 a month, I may as well stay with PlusNet and FreeView , and BT  .


I have it on very good authority that there is still a Supreme Solus pack (ie top TV package but no phone line) available for £22. Admittedly, it's only £6 cheaper than _with_ a phone-line, but there it is


----------



## cwaring

mikerr said:


> Also noticed it keeps all series linked recordings seperate from normal recordings, in "folders" of their own, so its tidier (but more confusing IMO as you have to navigate to each folder to see if/how many eps are there) E.g. all eps of ER are in an ER folder, not scattered throughout other recordings


While that is essentially correct, I'm sure you wouldn't want to mis-lead anyone by suggesting that that is the _only_ way to view recordings, would you? 

There are also options to view recordings a la "Now Playing" (ie by date) and also by A-Z.

Just thought I'd mention it 

In anyone's interested, there are shots of every menu here.


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## ericd121

cwaring said:


> In anyone's interested, there are shots of every menu here.


How did you grab these screenshots, Carl?


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## cwaring

It wasn't easy 

As you will know, Tivo simply outputs _everyhting_ to the VCR SCART. However, the TVDrive doesn't do this. I tried it and it simply recorded whatever the actual _tuner_ was showing; no menus.

However, I figured that it could be so clever with the RF output so hooked that up instead and, as you can see, it worked 

See, I can be devious occasionally


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## HyperionX

karl said:


> I can confirm that TVDrive certainly does have "season pass" like functionality. Not sure how sophisticated it is in terms of rescheduling, first run only, no duplicate episodes, 28 day rules etc.
> 
> You can set padding options, but it is a global setting for all recordings. I'm not sure what happens when 2 programmes are recording in "pad time" and a third recording is scheduled to start, but I *think* the third is delayed rather than cancelled. In any case, having 2 recording tuners and a third viewing tuner should make clashes less likely. Also, there are options for clash resolution.
> 
> I'm hoping that my box will get fixed tomorrow. Just to clarify, only the recording functionality of my box is currently broken, and it turns out TiVo can control TVDrive as if it was a regular set-top box using the front IR blaster. Whilst it's disappointing to have problems, it is after all a pilot scheme.
> 
> Will try to post more once my box is working properly again!


Now that the TVDrive is available..I've started to see some of the documentation around the device whilst it's no TiVo...it does look (a little) like Sky+...so to my usual question subject - series link/season pass...in Sky+ not every show can use the series link...  ...can you see if every and any show can be recorded using the series link function?


----------



## cwaring

The "series link" on TVD is nowhere near as sophisticated as Tivos. 

Where the data is correct, it works just as it should, although I don't think it will automatically schedule the next showing if the first one clashes. However, with dual-tuners this is far less likely to be needed anyway 

Naturally, with it being a brand-new product there are still some problems. For example, setting a link for "Smallville" will get every episode, not just the new ones; and my "Working Lunch" doesn't yet pick up every programme. Finally, and this is a strange one, although "West Wing" recorded fine last week @ 9pm, this week it scheduled the early-morning repeat instead, for no apparent reason 

Just like Tivo, if you keep an eye on it, it works just fine 

I cannot compare it to Sky+ as I have never used that system.


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## HyperionX

cwaring said:


> The "series link" on TVD is nowhere near as sophisticated as Tivos.
> 
> Where the data is correct, it works just as it should, although I don't think it will automatically schedule the next showing if the first one clashes. However, with dual-tuners this is far less likely to be needed anyway
> 
> Naturally, with it being a brand-new product there are still some problems. For example, setting a link for "Smallville" will get every episode, not just the new ones; and my "Working Lunch" doesn't yet pick up every programme. Finally, and this is a strange one, although "West Wing" recorded fine last week @ 9pm, this week it scheduled the early-morning repeat instead, for no apparent reason
> 
> Just like Tivo, if you keep an eye on it, it works just fine
> 
> I cannot compare it to Sky+ as I have never used that system.


Sorry Carl....what I meant was that Sky+ actually doesn't allow you to use their serason pass feature on some (many) programs(!) - the feature is available by exception rather than the rule (most prgrams you can't use it). Iwas wondering if there are any such restrictions with the TVDrive..?


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## cwaring

Sorry! Actually, I still don't quite get it. I thought one of the 'selling point' of Sky+ was the "get every episode of this series". If this is actually exception, rather than the rule then there's something seriously wrong, IMO.

I can only speak from my experience and I have to say that the majoriy of my current 'links' do seem to work okay.

As I said, there are known issues with some programmes, but these are being worked on.

I would say that the feature is the rule rather than the exception; certainly from my own experience


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## HyperionX

cwaring said:


> Sorry! Actually, I still don't quite get it. I thought one of the 'selling point' of Sky+ was the "get every episode of this series". If this is actually exception, rather than the rule then there's something seriously wrong, IMO.
> 
> I can only speak from my experience and I have to say that the majoriy of my current 'links' do seem to work okay.
> 
> As I said, there are known issues with some programmes, but these are being worked on.
> 
> I would say that the feature is the rule rather than the exception; certainly from my own experience


 Thanks Carl.

The Sky+ series link feature is only available on certain shows...If series link is available for a show then it will indeed record all episodes but (and it's a big but) where a show is covered the series link option isn't even offered on screen.

It looks as if the TVDrive covers everything even if the feature is a little temperamental


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## Simon George

HyperionX said:


> Thanks Carl.
> 
> The Sky+ series link feature is only available on certain shows...If series link is available for a show then it will indeed record all episodes but (and it's a big but) where a show is covered the series link option isn't even offered on screen.
> 
> It looks as if the TVDrive covers everything even if the feature is a little temperamental


I wanted to share my experiences of recording problems on TV Drive

I have set up several series recordings with mixed results. despite a few series recordings working e.g. Battlestar Galactica on Sky One seems to have recorded each Tuesday/Sky one episode just fine, and until last night, Poirot on ITV1 and 24 on Sky One seemed to be OK, actually the TV drive recording a show seems to be an arbitary affair.

The problems seem to be of two kinds

Last night neither 24 or Poirot recorded despite
- Prior weeks having recorded
- There were no other recordings that could have caused a clash.
- The shows where highlighted in red on the programme guide

I have a series recording of Newsnight (5 shows a week, nightly same time, same channel) set up
- It will only record certain apparently random days in the week
- The shows show up, some highlighted in red and some not
- When I try to make it record a show not highlighted, it asked do I want to CANCEL the scheduled recording. When I say no, and therefore apparently leave the recording in place, the show is NOT RECORDED!
- There were no other recordings that could have caused a clash.

Finally there is the problem of my taste in TV, but thats not something easily fixed ....

Why does my TV drive behave this way, and has anyone else noticed theirs doing the same?


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## Simon George

OK answering my own question - apparently Telewest have this as a known problem, and it is logged as an open item, but with no resolution date as yet.

New box teething troubles I guess - still worth the money though!


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## nick.perry

If I might continue to stray off (forum) topic - does anyone have HDMI output working on their TVDrive. I plugged in my Dell 2001FP last night using a HDMI->DVI converter. I got all the box-generated graphics - menus, info, banner, channel id, etc, but no TV picture - just black where it is supposed to be.

If I'm getting the menus I don't think it can be the monitor or cable (though I may be wrong, I don't know enough about the HDMI/DVI interface so it must be the TVDrive, right?


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## Ian_m

If the TV Drive supports content protection (HDCP) over HDMI then this maybe correct. You won't see the picture.

You need HDMI rather than DVI. A lot of people are simlarly going to be disappointed when Sky HD comes along and they plug in their legacy displays via DVI.


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## cwaring

Simon. "24" recorded fine for me here. Not sure why yours didn't. As you say, teething problems


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## sanderton

Ian_m said:


> If the TV Drive supports content protection (HDCP) over HDMI then this maybe correct. You won't see the picture.
> 
> You need HDMI rather than DVI. A lot of people are simlarly going to be disappointed when Sky HD comes along and they plug in their legacy displays via DVI.


HDCP works over DVI too, but you're quite right many owners of older displays will have to use component. To be honest it's pretty hard to tell the difference.


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## Simon George

sanderton said:


> HDCP works over DVI too, but you're quite right many owners of older displays will have to use component. To be honest it's pretty hard to tell the difference.


I have my TV Drive HDMI output connected to a HDCP compliant DVI-D input on a projector, and this works fine.

HDMI and DVI are for all practical purposes electrically identical - it is only a physical connector difference. You can have a cable with different connectors on each end and it will work fine. HDCP compliance is,effectively, the must have at all stages. (If you use a switch box [e.g. to connect TV Drive, and a DVDP to the TV] then that must be HDCP compliant as well.)

However when installing my TV Drive, I had the same "black Screen" problem described. The problem was fixed by performing a forced re-boot.

The other thing to look for is the length of the HDMI cable (15 metres in my case) - Whilst my DVD player seems to have no problem with a long HDMI cable, the TV drive HDMI needed a "Equaliser box" plugged in just before the projector in order to work.

BTW Thanks cwaring -


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## cwaring

Did someone mention they have their Tivo hooked up to their TVDrive? If so, how it is connected and does it limit what you can watch and when on either unit?

I was thinking about this last night while trying to get to sleep, which didn't help 

Surely you can't watch the TVD when the Tivo is recording as, because you're using the 'external' tuner (ie the one we can see and control) you'll end-up with whatever you do with the TVD on the Tivo instead of a programme?


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## Simon George

cwaring said:


> Did someone mention they have their Tivo hooked up to their TVDrive? If so, how it is connected and does it limit what you can watch and when on either unit?
> 
> I was thinking about this last night while trying to get to sleep, which didn't help
> 
> Surely you can't watch the TVD when the Tivo is recording as, because you're using the 'external' tuner (ie the one we can see and control) you'll end-up with whatever you do with the TVD on the Tivo instead of a programme?


Correct - Tivo can only record the external tuner

However this is no different to Tivo recording without TV drive - Tivo can only record what the cable/sat box outputs - if you change channels directly on an old style cable box directly you will have the same result as the one you describe.

TV drive is only superficially different in that you can look at stored programmes on it, but in effect this is the same as changing channels old style.

My Tivo is hooked up via the VCR scart on the TV Drive. (I use the HDMI for the TV, which means the TV scart is disabled). This is a very poor quality connection though. Using RGB instead of HDMI for the TV may be a better option when a Tivo is involved.


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## mikerr

I have a tivo hooked up to it, if we notice the tivo's red light is on, then we don't use the tvdrive control...

I would prefer the tivo to send a press of the tvdrive's "tv" button before recording,
as this would avoid missed recordings when you've left the tvdrive in menus, or on pause.

As to your comment further up, yes I did have an episode of coronation-st that I thought hadn't recorded, as it WASN'T in "view by date", but it WAS in the "View by series" submenu... 

From people's comments on the TW newsgroup, I may have a faulty unit though (its excessively slow in the guide menus)


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## cwaring

mikerr said:


> As to your comment further up, yes I did have an episode of coronation-st that I thought hadn't recorded, as it WASN'T in "view by date", but it WAS in the "View by series" submenu...


How odd


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## nick.perry

Simon George said:


> HDMI and DVI are for all practical purposes electrically identical - it is only a physical connector difference. You can have a cable with different connectors on each end and it will work fine. HDCP compliance is,effectively, the must have at all stages. (If you use a switch box [e.g. to connect TV Drive, and a DVDP to the TV] then that must be HDCP compliant as well.)


Aha! Thanks for that clarification - I guess that's it. I believe none of the older Dell flat panels are HDCP compliant. I doubt my 2001FP wil be so.

Also, with the TVDrive in 1080p mode the menus (remember I can't see any video) on my Dell 2001FP were distinctly 'soft'; like a particularly soft analogue composite video signal.
In 780p mode the menus were as sharp as a pin. that was a bit surprising.


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## Simon George

nick.perry said:


> Aha! Thanks for that clarification - I guess that's it. I believe none of the older Dell flat panels are HDCP compliant. I doubt my 2001FP wil be so.


There is generally an issue with computer display equipment and HDCP. I.e. most computer displays being manufactured even now are not HDCP compliant and at the moment there is no trend towards it even.


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## AndrewDucker

nick.perry said:


> Aha! Thanks for that clarification - I guess that's it. I believe none of the older Dell flat panels are HDCP compliant. I doubt my 2001FP wil be so.
> 
> Also, with the TVDrive in 1080p mode the menus (remember I can't see any video) on my Dell 2001FP were distinctly 'soft'; like a particularly soft analogue composite video signal.
> In 780p mode the menus were as sharp as a pin. that was a bit surprising.


I suspect that's because 1080p is 1920x 1080, which is a higher resolution than your monitor can cope with (1600x1200). The scaling is obviously worse for that than it is for 720p (1280x720) which your monitor clearly knows what to do with.


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## Simon George

I found this on anothe forum today - a summary of issues and planned fixes from Telewest themselves


>> Some recordings just don't happen!
>> This has been the development team's key focus and we have been working
>> hard to rectify recording issues. The good news is that we believe we 
>> have
>> solved a couple of problems which may have caused you to either have a
>> recording completely fail, or find yourself with a big piece of 
>> 'recovered
>> content'
>>
>> These fixes are currently being tested and you should see the first
>> improvements in our mid-April code download. Additional fixes will also 
>> be
>> included in the mid-May release.
>>
>> In the meantime, you should see an improvement in recording stability if
>> you delete any recordings you do not wish to keep. If you continue to 
>> have
>> a significant number of problems with failed recordings please contact us
>> for free on 151 from a Telewest phone (or local rate 0845 142 0000 from
>> other providers) and we will organise having the hard disk reformatted
>> for you, once you have watched or archived any programmes you wish to 
>> see.
>>
>> I don't always get the interactive 'red button' prompts on my TVDrive
>> We are aware of this and we believe we have solved the problem. You 
>> should
>> see significant improvements in our mid-May code release. Until then, a
>> reset of your TVDrive should solve the problem.
>>
>> I sometimes can't enter my pin on Sky Movies 9 and 10
>> We are aware of this and we believe we have solved the problem. You 
>> should
>> see significant improvements in our mid-May code release. Until then, a
>> reset of your TVDrive should solve the problem.
>>
>> I can't record films from Sky Movies 9 and 10.
>> Due to the content of these channels we have to offer pin protection on
>> these services. We are working on a solution that will allow you to 
>> record
>> content from these channels.
>>
>> The VCR SCART Output is fixed to 4x3 Letterbox
>> This again is a known issue. We are investigating the option of setting
>> the VCR format to that of the TV output. I.e. if the TV SCART is set to
>> 4x3 letterbox, the VCR SCART will output 4x3 letterbox. If the TV SCART 
>> is
>> set to widescreen or HD, the VCR SCART would be set to widescreen. We
>> currently do not have a release date for this fix.
>>
>> The HDMI Output has a black bar down the right hand side
>> This is a known issue and is fixed in the next code release, due for
>> release mid April.
>>
>> I cannot stretch or zoom a 4:3 programme on my HD screen when my TVDrive
>> is set to HDMI or Component.
>> Many standard definition TV channels do not broadcast in widescreen but
>> you may not have noticed this before because your widescreen HDTV will
>> allow you to alter the picture format when connected via SCART. Typically
>> you can set the picture to 4:3 (and see black bars on the left and right
>> of the picture), zoom the picture (meaning that you will lose the top and
>> bottom of the image) or stretch the picture sideways to fill the screen
>> (and in the process make everyone look a little fat!)
>>
>> Unlike standard definition television, HDTV has a native widescreen
>> format, and your HD television expects to see a widescreen picture. To
>> compensate for this, the TVDrive team chose to add black bars to the left
>> and right of a 4:3 SD channel. We did this for two reasons: (1) our
>> research showed that the majority of people prefer to watch 4x3 
>> programmes
>> without the image being stretched and (2) it is necessary to keep the
>> video and the graphics plane in tight alignment so that interactive
>> applications such as the multi-screen sports coverage from the BBC looks
>> correct.
>>
>> We understand that many users would like us to offer the ability to zoom
>> or stretch a 4:3 picture (especially for widescreen programmes shown in
>> 14x9 format) and we're looking into how best to do this. As stated above,
>> because of the complexity of keeping overlaid graphics in alignment with
>> video this will take us some time to implement.
>>
>> I want my 5.1
>> TVDrive is fully capable of receiving Dolby Digital 5.1 broadcasts.
>> However, we need to make a change to the software for this to work with
>> Teleport HD movies. This is included in the mid-April code release. From
>> then on, we will be able to offer 5.1 sound on Teleport HD Movies.
>>
>> I want to watch HDTV but the engineer told me that TVDrive doesn't 
>> support
>> Component or DVI video
>> To be allowed to bring you HD Movies, the studios insist that we add 
>> 'Copy
>> Protection' to the High Definition output of TVDrive. Whilst we will
>> endeavour to show as much content as possible on all outputs, some
>> programmes and films will be restricted to the HDMI output only.
>>
>> Because of this Telewest engineers will not install TVDrive using the
>> Component (YPbPr) sockets. However, they are enabled and you can, with 
>> the
>> correct leads, connect it this way yourself.
>>
>> DVI is a difficult problem. Some screens with DVI sockets do support copy
>> protection (otherwise known as HDCP) and some don't. If your screen has a
>> DVI socket, and a 'HD Ready' logo or it states in the manual that it
>> supports HDCP copy protection then it will work fine with the TVDrive HD
>> service. Again because of the problems surrounding DVI, Telewest
>> installers will not install using DVI, you can, of course, connect this
>> yourself using either a HDMI to DVI cable, or a HDMI to DVI converter.
>>
>> Remember: both component and DVI do not carry sound, so you'll also have
>> to connect the box up to the audio sockets on your screen or amplifier
>> using the audio phono or optical sockets.
>>
>> Some early component screens only support 720p at 60Hz. This is the
>> American standard. TVDrive outputs 720p and 1080i at 50Hz only. Most
>> screens will support 1080I at 50Hz.
>>
>> My HD screen states that it is HD ready, but I cannot get TVDrive to 
>> work.
>> I get no output or I can see the TVDrive graphics but not the video.
>> This is most likely due to problems with HDCP copy protection mentioned
>> above. Some screens get upset when they are connected by HDMI/DVI for the
>> first time; others don't like it if you swap between two HDMI/DVI sources
>> (you may have a HDMI DVD player as well as a TVDrive). If you are having
>> this problem you should switch your TV off at the mains, leave it for a
>> couple of seconds, and then switch it back on.
>>
>> If you are looking to buy a HDTV screen, Telewest recommends that you buy
>> one with the 'HD Ready' mark and AT LEAST one HDMI socket


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## davisa

Simon George said:


> I found this on anothe forum today - a summary of issues and planned fixes from Telewest themselves...Bug list snipped


This really does sound like the product was unfit for release - some major show-stoppers there. Why couldn't they have just bought the TiVo software


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## ericd121

Simon George said:


> I found this on anothe forum today


Which one?


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## Simon George

ericd121 said:


> Which one?


Digital Spy


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## mikerr

Simon George said:


> Digital Spy


TVDrive has its own forum over there:
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=151


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## cwaring

Here too!
http://www.telewestinfo.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

(Hey! Why should DS get all the publicity  Gotta stand up for the small guy


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## cwaring

Something you may or may not have seen:
http://www.telewestinfo.co.uk/news.shtml

Re: ITV Deal:

NTL:Telewest 1 Sky 0


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## HyperionX

cwaring said:


> Something you may or may not have seen:
> http://www.telewestinfo.co.uk/news.shtml
> 
> Re: ITV Deal:
> 
> NTL:Telewest 1 Sky 0


Correction Telewest 1 Sky 0...don't think that ntl subscribers will get access  
ntl subscribers can't get the TVDrive (regardless of whether it's good or bad)...


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## cwaring

A very good point. Sorry I was using the full company name there


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## HyperionX

cwaring said:


> A very good point. Sorry I was using the full company name there


No problem you were being perfectly logical...unfortunately ntl-Telewest have only merged enough to share debt, align one or two prices, and make cuts (sorry a little cynical at present  ...)

I was really hoping to get a TVDrive in the near future but since I'm with ntl that's unlikely to happen


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## cwaring

I thought that NTL were planning their own DVR? That said, I do seem to recall reading something about them not going ahead with it for now. Might have to trawl DS for the story


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## 6022tivo

cwaring said:


> I thought that NTL were planning their own DVR? That said, I do seem to recall reading something about them not going ahead with it for now. Might have to trawl DS for the story


And apparently a better box than telewests??. Something about MP4 and the telewest one only being a MP2???. I think?


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## cwaring

True, but from what I've read there's not much diff between them; ie MPEG4 isn't much better than MPEG2; or something like that. Can't remember exactly


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## Richardr

The main advantage in MPEG4 is the better compression, so the provider can fit more channels in the same bandwidth for the same apparent quality.

Thus for the user, there may be no real difference between the two - albeit total bandwidth may restrict the number of channels available, and also I'm not sure what the quality will be like for cable converting from the original MPEG4 broadcasts to MPEG2.

Hopefully at some point a user will be able to compare the BBC's World Cup coverage between cable and satellite.

The latest in ex-ntl areas seems to be that they will adopt the TVDrive, but not until 2007 at the earliest.


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## Andy C

In advance of a TVDrive install, what codes would I use to control the live tuner with TiVo, and where is the best place to stick the emitter?

TVDrive will probably do most of the recording, but I would like to keep TiVo hooked up for wishlist recordings and setting remote recordings when I'm away.

Cheers,
Andy.


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## doctor.steve

I use 20020 fast with the blaster on as the tvdrive accepts normal ir.
In fact it's the same code as my pace 4000 box.

You've gotta have regular recordings, otherwise you can record a lot of tvdrive "resting" screens...

I have suggestions switched on and a nightly reset at 4am of the box.
It's all been a bit more stable since the latest software update - but I still don't use the record function of the tvdrive as it cuts programs off randomly and the fault is still under investigation (infact it has been since May!)...

Not to put you off but I've been receiving a discount since I got it installed due to issue 336089.


----------



## cwaring

On the other hand, and just to balance the view out, I didn't have a whole lot of problems when I had my TVD. Not to say there were none, but I certainly didn't get many programmes cut off. Maybe this is a new fault though as I haven't had mine for a couple of months


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## mikerr

You don't have a tvdrive anymore carl? Why did you get rid of it?

Oh and the sticking on the "resting screen" issue can be sorted with a tivo hack to resend
the channel change after 30 seconds:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=312583


----------



## cwaring

mikerr said:


> You don't have a tvdrive anymore carl? Why did you get rid of it?


Well, to be perfectly honest I had it on loan for six-months for a long-term review  on my TW website. They did offer to extend it further but I declined as I wanted to get back to using my Tivo  Seriously 

As a DVR, and in the absence of a new Tivo, it's an excellent product which I'm sure will be even better when all the bugs are sorted out.


----------



## Andy C

doctor.steve said:


> You've gotta have regular recordings, otherwise you can record a lot of tvdrive "resting" screens...


Thanks for the reply. I'm using codes 20020 now anyway so that's handy.

As for the resting screen, I assumed the box would wake when you tried to do anything, such as change channel. Obviously that isn't the case, although the resend hack sounds useful.



doctor.steve said:


> Not to put you off but I've been receiving a discount since I got it installed due to issue 336089.


I'm with NTL and they've just started taking installation bookings. Currently NTL boxes will be running a different code to TW called UK1, which is cross between the existing NTL and TW software. I think it's a stop gap until the 'big' code drop with the Virgin Media EPG. Whether this fixes any outstanding TW code issues I don't know.

I really don't want to get rid of the TiVo though, it's just so damn handy. My only reason for the TVDrive is the multiple tuners.

Andy.


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## RWILTS

Do what i intend to do when i get the NTL t drive - take out the multi room option for £5 per month have 'old' NTL box relocated to another room and move your tivo with it. Basicly retain your current set up in a new room and get benefit of multi tuners from the new box. 
Also like Telewest they are foregoing the instillation fee (nice of them!) if you take out the multi room option so thats £75 saved towards your additional £5 per month!!


----------

