# Bolt OTA signal strength



## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

I have had a bolt for 2 years working perfectly OTA. About a month ago all channels stopped coming in. Signal strength was at best 35 on my closest channel. I disconnected the cable and ran it directly to my tv. Everything worked great. Signal strength was in the 90s on all channels. After a few hours on the phone with TIVo, I got them to send me a new bolt. Hooked it up and everything was great again until this morning. My signal strength is down to the 30s on most channels, yet everything works fine directly into the tv. Either I have the worst luck in the world and this Bolt tuner has died too or something else is causing my signal issues only with the Bolt. Any ideas?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Maybe a victim of the 'channel repacking'?

You might want to explore either a fresh channel scan or possibly re-running Guided Setup.

Also, you might want to verify your channel lineup in comparison to your Zip Code.

-KP


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rmduff said:


> Either I have the worst luck in the world and this Bolt tuner has died too or something else is causing my signal issues only with the Bolt. Any ideas?


I wouldn't take a trip to Vegas.

While watching the Diagnostics display, try moving the coax. Using the same coax for the TV and the Bolt still means you have to move it. It could be a bad connector.

You might check the ODT if the Bolt is not in a well ventilated space. Just a guess.


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## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

I tried new channel scan and reran guided setup. No change. My ODT is 67 but I tried unplugging it for an hour but even with an ODT in the 30s my signal strengths are still low. Also shaking the coax in diagnostic mode made no change. I’m using MOCA to a TiVo Mini. Any chance this has something to do with MOCA? Everything was working fine until the middle of June and now the same signal strength problems on two different Bolts.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rmduff said:


> I tried new channel scan and reran guided setup. No change. My ODT is 67 but I tried unplugging it for an hour but even with an ODT in the 30s my signal strengths are still low. Also shaking the coax in diagnostic mode made no change. I'm using MOCA to a TiVo Mini. Any chance this has something to do with MOCA? Everything was working fine until the middle of June and now the same signal strength problems on two different Bolts.


Sorry, MoCA is not my thing. Someone with more experience may be able to help. An OTA TiVo strives (with AGC) to have a signal level of 72%.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Channel 'repack' info for Mobile:

RabbitEars.Info

-KP


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Part of the Channel Repack here was turning the main transmitters down to half power while they worked on putting in new ones for all the channels that are moving frequencies.
This started mid June and they won't be back to full power till late August when the channels move.

Only time I've been affected by this has been during big rainstorms, luckily it's been one of the driest July's on record, so it's hasn't been that bad.


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## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

I don’t believe the Repack is related to my problem, as one of the channels I have lost did not move. This channel worked in the morning as it recorded the World Cup game fine but now has a signal strength of only 35 but comes in as a 92 when connected to my tv tuner using the same coax. It seems to me that something is causing my tuners to go bad, but what could it be?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

In the network settings, check the MoCA stats. It may not be a MoCA created problem, but the stats may help to identify it. You should see two nodes, one for the Bolt, and the other for the Mini. What are the Tx and Rx power numbers reported for each? A dBM value approaching +3 indicates that the MoCa equipment is having to work very hard, by adding power to overcome a flaw in the coax plant. If it’s too much to write down, take a couple of shots of the display woth a cell phone, and post the pix here. Folks here can help.

I am of the opinion that two tuner sets going bad is highly unlikely, and suspect either a bad or loose RF connector, failing splitter, or coax impingement. I don’t know how true it is, but I have heard that Comcast attributes 20% of their technician service calls to loose or failing connectors.


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## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

I have attached photos from the bolt and the mini. 
As an update I have turned off Moca but this has made no change in signal strength. I was able to watch the World Cup final directly on my tv but the bolt is still only getting a 35 signal strength on my Fox and all other channels except 2. So frustrating to have everything working perfectly for two years and now nothing works due to some unknown cause.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

The MoCA numbers don't look horrible. If you were seeing high power rates or low PHY link rates, it might lead to something in the plant, but these numbers don't necessarily look out of line.

MoCA uses frequency ranges above 1000 MHz. After the repack, your local broadcasters aren't using anything over 600MHz, so I would have been very surprised if turning MoCA off made any difference your over the air reception. The frequencies aren't near each other.

I'm still of mind that there's a connection issue near the bolt. If you can, remove the coax cable that connects the Bolt (or the TV, when you have it directly connected) to the wall plate. The wall plate should be held in by a couple of screws, just like a switch plate or outlet cover. Remove the plate and pull it away from the wall, and inspect the coax cable. It's likely that the female connector that projects out of the plate is a barrel style F-81 connector (female both ends). Using a 7/16" open end wrench, lightly tighten the in-coming cable in the wall box to the barrel connector on the back of the wall plate (don't reef it down with a lot of force, but you want it to be tight enough that you can't loosen it using just a light touch with your fingers). Reinstall the plate to the wall box. Use a new, known good RG6 coax cable to connect to the wall plate and the Bolt, tightening in the same manner at the wall plate (but only finger tight on the Tivo or TV- don't use a wrench on consumer electronic connectors). Recheck your signal strength.

I assume you have OTA signal at the Mini's location? If so, can you temporarily swap the Bolt in place of the mini, and see if your signal strength changes in the new location?


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## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

Update on what I have tried. I have checked all the connections and tried the bolt in the bedroom with no change to signal strength. I got a RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp and it has boosted the signal enough to get a picture. Signal strength is up to 50 on most channels except my fox affiliate which is a vhf channel. This one channel didn’t change much and signal strength is still only 40 up from 35. Using the preamp has caused me to have to loss MOCA to my mini. I need to either get a signal booster that will work with MOCA or I will have to run CAT5 to my Mini which will be a huge pain due to fire blocks in my walls. Any suggestions on a different signal booster that will help with my vhf station?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Where are you injecting power for the pre-amp? If at all possible, while keeping it indoors, locate it as close as you can to the pre-amp on the down-lead from the antenna. Below that insertion point, add (or reposition) a PoE filter, typically on the input of the first splitter that the down-lead connects to. That should keep the MoCA frequency traffic away from the amplifier.

Antenna <-> preamp <----> power inserter <----> PoE filter: coax splitter : -> coax plant

Keep the power injector above the first splitter drop. As you have discovered, DC power injectors and MocA do not play well together.

As far as VHF operation, I believe that pre-amp has a selector switch for separate or combined feeds (that is, if you were feeding two different antennas into the pre-amp you'd use the separate position)- you might want to check to see how that's set.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

While a duplexer in this fixture would have the lowest insertion loss, a MoCA rated splitter works as well.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

rmduff said:


> Update on what I have tried. I have checked all the connections and tried the bolt in the bedroom with no change to signal strength. I got a RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp and it has boosted the signal enough to get a picture. Signal strength is up to 50 on most channels except my fox affiliate which is a vhf channel. This one channel didn't change much and signal strength is still only 40 up from 35. Using the preamp has caused me to have to loss MOCA to my mini. I need to either get a signal booster that will work with MOCA or I will have to run CAT5 to my Mini which will be a huge pain due to fire blocks in my walls. Any suggestions on a different signal booster that will help with my vhf station?


Can't help with MOCA but instead of running CAT5 I use this extender one at the Bolt and one at the Mini. I used to use the Linksys WUMC710 but they were flaky and started dying and past end of life so made the switch to the Netgear devices. They have been rock solid since I installed them back in January. Make sure you give both the Bolt and Mini static IP addresses on your network and they will always find each other after a power outage.

As for OTA I can understand why the TV gets a better signal as the Bolt has 4 tuners. So perhaps you need to invest in a larger antenna to increase the signal strength coming into the coax. I have two of these antennas in our attic as an outdoor installation is just not possible here.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I use an EX7000 for five devices including three TiVo units. It on the high end. What model is your router?


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## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

aspexil said:


> As for OTA I can understand why the TV gets a better signal as the Bolt has 4 tuners. So perhaps you need to invest in a larger antenna to increase the signal strength coming into the coax. I have two of these antennas in our attic as an outdoor installation is just not possible here.


That is the biggest issue of all. The first bolt was perfect for 2 years and this one was perfect for only 2 weeks before the signal strength dropped. I would just go buy a new bolt today but I'm afraid something in my setup is killing the bolt tuners.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> I use an EX7000 for five devices including three TiVo units. It on the high end. What model is your router?


NETGEAR Nighthawk X8 - AC5300 Tri-Band Quad-Stream Wi-Fi Router (R8500)


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

rmduff said:


> That is the biggest issue of all. The first bolt was perfect for 2 years and this one was perfect for only 2 weeks before the signal strength dropped. I would just go buy a new bolt today but I'm afraid something in my setup is killing the bolt tuners.


Is your coax grounded? You can get a lightning arrestor that has a ground lug on it and ground that to earth with a copper clad steel ground rod as far deep as you can pound it in with a sledge hammer. Or to a copper water pipe that heads out of your house.


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## rmduff (Nov 2, 2005)

aspexil said:


> Is your coax grounded? You can get a lightning arrestor that has a ground lug on it and ground that to earth with a copper clad steel ground rod as far deep as you can pound it in with a sledge hammer. Or to a copper water pipe that heads out of your house.


My antenna is in my attic so I assume I would not need to ground. Is that correct? On this bolt I was home when the signal dropped out and there was not a cloud in the sky.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

I just got a Bolt with the latest upgrade deal, it was to replace a Premiere. The Premiere has been working great OTA using an indoor antenna. The Bolt however, is missing 4 channels, doesn't receive a signal for them. Yet on the Premiere the signal strength meter show these channels as being very strong. So why can't the Bolt pull in these channels. Even my old Series 3 OLED gets these channels.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Resist said:


> I just got a Bolt with the latest upgrade deal, it was to replace a Premiere. The Premiere has been working great OTA using an indoor antenna. The Bolt however, is missing 4 channels, doesn't receive a signal for them. Yet on the Premiere the signal strength meter show these channels as being very strong. So why can't the Bolt pull in these channels. Even my old Series 3 OLED gets these channels.


The OTA signal is being split 4-ways in the Bolt; the Premiere only 2-ways.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

pfiagra said:


> The OTA signal is being split 4-ways in the Bolt; the Premiere only 2-ways.


That doesn't explain a high signal on the other two boxes and a zero signal strength on the Bolt. The signal strength shouldn't be degraded down to nothing.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

pfiagra said:


> The OTA signal is being split 4-ways in the Bolt; the Premiere only 2-ways.


Nope. There is no internal splitting in any TiVo. I know this seems like the logical explanation, but it just isn't happening.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

snerd said:


> Nope. There is no internal splitting in any TiVo. I know this seems like the logical explanation, but it just isn't happening.


Ok. I don't claim to be an expert, but the explanation that I provided has been posted here on these forums before.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

pfiagra said:


> Ok. I don't claim to be an expert, but the explanation that I provided has been posted here on these forums before.


My four tuner Roamio units ALL have stronger signal levels than my two tuner Premiere. That's been posted before.

None of us have schematics so we all just have to observe and report. After a while I learned who should be ignored, who is nasty, and who is just plain mean. I'm not saying there is a geographic factor either.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

pfiagra said:


> Ok. I don't claim to be an expert, but the explanation that I provided has been posted here on these forums before.


Yes, this same myth has been posted multiple times in multiple places, by other people who also aren't experts. That merely means that it is a widespread misconception.

I'm an RF engineer. I know how splitters work and when/where they are used. The only way it would make any sense to have a splitter built into a TiVo would be if the tuners were independent circuits, but in a TiVo all of the tuners are built into the same chip. The RF signal from the coax feeds into a single pin on the chip, and almost surely passes through a buffer amplifier inside the chip before passing to multiple tuners inside the chip.

Splitters are used to distribute RF power between segments of coax that carry the signals long distances. The purpose of a splitter is to take RF power coming into the input port and pass equal portions to the output ports in a carefully controlled manner that preserves as much RF power as possible while avoiding reflections that mess up reception. The components that make up splitters are big and bulky and not made of silicon, and once the signals are confined to a small area inside a chip it would be incredibly inconvenient (and unnecessary) to perform the functions that a splitter provides.

Long story shortened, it just isn't done that way.


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## Mark Bowren (Sep 2, 2018)

I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one experiencing this exact issue. After over a year of flawless use, somewhere around the end of July 2018 I lost about half of my 61 channels. For weeks I assumed it had something to do with my antenna (mounted in attic). I added 2 additional antennas (using combiner) pointing North, South and West (West Palm Beach area). My cable run is 50 feet (RG-6 cable). I finally decided to connect directly to the TV and was glad to see all the channels are there! Tivo is sending me a replacement Bolt and should have it on 9/12/2018. I will post the results later. I hope that it is not a refurbished unit. I suspect the internal preamp inside the Tivo (to drive the 4 receivers) has been compromised. I also hope that this is not due to a software flaw automatically pushed to all Bolts. It would be very difficult for tech support to identify this problem since they assume the customer's equipment is the problem.
On a technical note, external preamps are for driving multiple TV's and/or long cable runs (over 100 ft). If you are using RG-59 cable then you should replace it with RG-6. Also ground the antenna to a nearby water pipe or electrical outlet. This is for EMF noise and not for a lightening strikes. The RF signals very sensitive and any electrical interference can affect the ability for the receiver to decode the signal, especially the weak ones.


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## Mark Bowren (Sep 2, 2018)

This is my update on previous post. I received my replacement Bolt from Tivo (refurbished unit) and all my channels are back. I assume the issue was a faulty internal preamp used to drive the 4 receivers in the Bolt. I hope it lasts for a long time but if it fails again I will update this post.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

I have this right where the antenna enters the house and it helps. FWIW, the tuner in the TiVo's is always knocked for some reason, but it is about the same as the Tablo gets as I have both.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FY0B90/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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