# This Roamio is starting to suck.



## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

I am missing lots of onepass recordings and as I am checking now shows it should be recording are not in the to do list. Also when starting recordings to play it plays it's little spinning icon for what seems an eternity anymore. I am getting ver5 unsatisfied.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

19972000muskrat said:


> I am missing lots of onepass recordings and as I am checking now shows it should be recording are not in the to do list. Also when starting recordings to play it plays it's little spinning icon for what seems an eternity anymore. I am getting ver5 unsatisfied.


What's the reason given for why it's not recording the shows?

I can't remember the last time that I saw a BSC.

Scott


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## rgrounds (Jun 15, 2004)

In my brief one year experience with my Roamio Pro my only issues with missing recording was because of the Tuning Adapter not getting rebooted. Once I put a timer on it I have never missed anything. 

You didn't state if you are OTA or Cable so I am not sure my fix would be your fix. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok I've used the Roamio for quite sometime now and am somewhat disappointed in its performance. I've had a Directv series 2 tivo for 15 years or so and it has better over all response time than the Roamio does. Sometimes when I go to open a recorded series the Roamio will pause for like 10 secs I never had any delay like that with my Directv series 2 tivo. I guess the Roamio does a lot more things at a higher quality picture but the Directv series 2 tivo is a whole lot older.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@19972000muskrat

Your roamio experience certainly isn't typical, although every problem you mention has been experienced by at least some users at least some of the time. I rarely see BSC's but have seen a few in just the last week. BTW BSC's are worse if there is a network connectivity issue to the TiVo servers. Missing one-pass recordings is more likely to be caused by inaccurate guide data than by a malfunctioning Tuning Adapter. It depends strongly on what shows you're trying to record. I have one-pass errors (missed or duplicate recordings) on a number of shows and there is one daily show that I've had to set up as timed recording because the one-pass never worked right -- even after I reported it to Tivo several times. But these problems occur mostly on less popular channels, e.g., CSPAN and Smithsonian.

Digital tuning on TiVo's can take 4 to 5 seconds even when everything is working properly. Some think it is made worse when using a TA. I use a TA and 4 to 5 seconds is what I see.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

19972000muskrat said:


> Sometimes when I go to open a recorded series the Roamio will pause for like 10 secs I never had any delay like that with my Directv series 2 tivo. I guess the Roamio does a lot more things at a higher quality picture but the Directv series 2 tivo is a whole lot older.


Are you seeing the spinning circle as this happens?

Tivos, from the Premiere on, infuriatingly(*) basically require a constant net connection and go into a tizzy if they can't connect to the network _OR SOMETHING_ even very briefly. That at least SEEMS to be what's happening, since I see it too, once in a while.. then going out and back in or into other folders isn't as slow..

(The one case I see that doesn't seem to be network related is that trying to undelete an item very veryveryvery often just spins and leaves the item looking like it's still in recently deleted.. but if I go out, it really did undelete it..)

(*) but we still bought it, so gave them positive reinforcement.


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## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, It's the spinning circle and is intermittently. It is definitely waiting on something but what I do not know.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

19972000muskrat said:


> Yes, It's the spinning circle and is intermittently. It is definitely waiting on something but what I do not know.


There are pages and pages here about this and why. The receiver "phones home" meaning it contacts the Tivo servers for some tasks to complete them. Sometimes the wait time for the response from the servers is longer than others.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

19972000muskrat said:


> Yes, It's the spinning circle and is intermittently. It is definitely waiting on something but what I do not know.


Are you using ethernet? Pull/unplug the ethernet cord and see if it gets faster.

If so, you have a network issue causing your slowdown.


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## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

Well that is a bunch of BS from Tivo if I have to wait on a server to see a show I have already recorded.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

19972000muskrat said:


> Well that is a bunch of BS from Tivo if I have to wait on a server to see a show I have already recorded.


Upgrade to a Bolt+.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

19972000muskrat said:


> Well that is a bunch of BS from Tivo if I have to wait on a server to see a show I have already recorded.


Possibly, but TiVo isn't going to change, so you can either try and diagnose the issue or ditch TiVo. My suggestion is to try and diagnose the issue.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

I turn off the modem and watch a show or two, by then, usually, Tivo servers are fine.


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## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

sfhub said:


> Possibly, but TiVo isn't going to change, so you can either try and diagnose the issue or ditch TiVo. My suggestion is to try and diagnose the issue.


Not sure what you mean by diagnose? Seems it's apparently a known issue.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

19972000muskrat said:


> Not sure what you mean by diagnose? Seems it's apparently a known issue.


If your network connection is functioning normally it actually isn't a "known" issue. I almost never see blue spinning circles on my system, unless TiVo servers go down.

If TiVo servers go down or your network connection is having issues either intermittent or longer term, then it is an artifact of the design, but these are not normal situations. kIf you are seeing the spinning circles often enough to notice or complain, something is not working correctly.

There are probably other reasons you might get a blue spinning circle. I suggested you unplug your ethernet cable to see if the spinning circles go away. The reason this works is the network connections time out immediately when the interface is down, so the spinning circles don't really happen. If you still get blue spinning circles after unplugging the ethernet cable, then the problem isn't with network, it is something else.

If you determine the problem is with the network, you should figure out why, because it isn't normal to have blue spinning circles. That would require more network diagnostics.

If it isn't a network issue, it might be a hard drive issue. When sectors start going bad, the TiVo can hang as the hard drive tries to re-read or re-map sectors.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Sparky1234 said:


> Upgrade to a Bolt+.


Yeah, that'll fix all the Tivo server issues.


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## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

sfhub said:


> If your network connection is functioning normally it actually isn't a "known" issue. I almost never see blue spinning circles on my system, unless TiVo servers go down.
> 
> If TiVo servers go down or your network connection is having issues either intermittent or longer term, then it is an artifact of the design, but these are not normal situations. kIf you are seeing the spinning circles often enough to notice or complain, something is not working correctly.
> 
> ...


Well I don't actually get them very often. I guess that's what makes them annoying when I do. My internet service is att dsl so that probably explains that issue.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

sfhub said:


> Are you using ethernet? Pull/unplug the ethernet cord and see if it gets faster.
> 
> If so, you have a network issue causing your slowdown.


This is not even remotely in any possible way accurate. Not by a country mile.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

sfhub said:


> If TiVo servers go down or your network connection is having issues either intermittent or longer term, then it is an artifact of the design, but these are not normal situations. kIf you are seeing the spinning circles often enough to notice or complain, something is not working correctly.
> .


Again, so far from being either true or accurate that it's beyond description.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wmhjr said:


> This is not even remotely in any possible way accurate. Not by a country mile.


Actually it is quite accurate. TiVo retrieves data from their servers on the fly in various points of the normal UI navigation. If it cannot reach the servers (for example your cable modem connection is down or tivo servers are down) the requests take time to timeout and you get spinning circles.

If you pull the network cord, the OS realizes there is no network and the requests terminate right away without needing to timeout. You get a bunch of placeholders for stuff it couldn't download, but the UI isn't blocked.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

sfhub said:


> Actually it is quite accurate. TiVo retrieves data from their servers in various points of the normal UI navigation. If it cannot reach the servers (for example your cable modem connection is down or tivo servers are down) the requests take time to timeout and you get spinning circles.
> 
> If you pull the network cord, the OS realizes there is no network and the requests terminate right away without needing to timeout.


Actually, you're completely wrong in your earlier statements. You specifically stated "network problems" and frankly discounted anything other than "Tivo servers being down", as well as representing this as atypical behavior. None of these are true. By pulling the ethernet, you're addressing the symptom - not the problem.

In this case, the root cause is without question an overbearing and improper architectural decision which created far too much dependency during normal operations on Tivo hosted platforms (not just servers, btw) at a "reasonable" performance level capable of servicing all requests. If you created an FMEA or C&E, you'd see the error of the design immediately.

Furthermore, it's not just Tivo servers "being down". It's Tivo hosted services performing at a lower than necessary performance level. They may well be "up" technically, but still incapable of providing reasonable performance given the intrusive nature of the chatty software.

And yet furthermore, there is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR too much evidence of this being a chronic issue totally unrelated to any "local" network or even broader internet or ISP issue to have even the slightest credibility in making a statement to the contrary.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wmhjr said:


> Actually, you're completely wrong in your earlier statements. You specifically stated "network problems"


network problems encompasses anything preventing data the UI needs from getting to the TiVo vis-a-vis the current design. I made no comment on whether the current design was good or not.

If your complaint is that I should have used the phrase down or degraded vs down, mea culpa, you got me.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

sfhub said:


> network problems encompasses anything preventing data the UI needs from getting to the TiVo vis-a-vis the current design. I made no comment on whether the current design was good or not.
> 
> If your complaint is that I should have used the phrase down or degraded vs down, mea culpa, you got me.


Actually, you're wrong again. "Network problems" mean nothing of the sort. Network problems mean - network problems. And, BTW, its not just the UI that requires data. Furthermore, you clearly stated



sfhub said:


> If your network connection is functioning normally it actually isn't a "known" issue. I almost never see blue spinning circles on my system, unless TiVo servers go down.
> 
> If you determine the problem is with the network, you should figure out why, because it isn't normal to have blue spinning circles. That would require more network diagnostics.
> .


Again, neither of the above statements are correct. Anecdotal information as how "you" personally almost never see blue spinning circles in no possible world means that it isn't either a known issue or that other people do not.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Look, the truth here is that the BSCs are a well known problem. We don't know all the reasons for them. We do know that they are associated with an abnormally high degree of interaction between the Tivo and their hosted services (again, not just "servers" and not just the "network"). We do know that people see them at random, and it's not all that infrequent. We do know that this happens to people who have incredibly robust network connections. We do NOT know exactly how Tivo is delivering those hosted services. Such as, (assuming they are) how are they load balanced? Is there persistency between TSNs and specific nodes? Are there federated hosting "centers"? To what extent is there latency tolerance? The number of questions around this is just about endless - but the conclusion that it's been a poor architectural decision was in concrete a long time ago. And frankly, for most people there is absolutely nothing whatsoever that can be done to improve it. They can perhaps hide the symptoms temporarily by unplugging the ethernet connection, but that is frankly about it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

sfub: Don't waist your time respond, wmhjr is all knowing, never wrong, and has been empowered by the Government to be the overlord in controlling the meaning of the words "network problem". He/she has determined that TiVo sucks in all ways - just go with it.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> sfub: Don't waist your time respond, wmhjr is all knowing, never wrong, and has been empowered by the Government to be the overlord in controlling the meaning of the words "network problem". He/she has determined that TiVo sucks in all ways - just go with it.


Yet more BS. Would you care to actually contradict what I said? Or would you prefer to "waist" your time making crap up? So, would you yourself have the idiotic opinion that if Tivo hosted systems (meaning servers, SAN, load balancers, perhaps packet management devices, are simply incapable of handling the volume or requests they're getting, then it's a "network problem"? If that's the case, it's clear that your technology experience expired with the Mac Jr.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

wmhjr said:


> Yet more BS. Would you care to actually contradict what I said? Or would you prefer to "waist" your time making crap up? So, would you yourself have the idiotic opinion that if Tivo hosted systems (meaning servers, SAN, load balancers, perhaps packet management devices, are simply incapable of handling the volume or requests they're getting, then it's a "network problem"? If that's the case, it's clear that your technology experience expired with the Mac Jr.


Some folks come here looking for help. Some folks come here trying to help by sharing their knowledge and experience. Some other folks come here to try and demonstrate that they are "superior" to others by putting them down and demeaning them and their thinking. These folks often hijack the threads and make no substantial offers of any real help or suggestions, the ensuing arguments are really their goal.
PS. "waist" does not equal "waste"


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

fcfc2 said:


> Some folks come here looking for help. Some folks come here trying to help by sharing their knowledge and experience. Some other folks come here to try and demonstrate that they are "superior" to others by putting them down and demeaning them and their thinking. These folks often hijack the threads and make no substantial offers of any real help or suggestions, the ensuing arguments are really their goal.
> PS. "waist" does not equal "waste"


Yes, and some folks who come here for help get false information (such as in this thread) that causes them to go through ridiculous trial and error crap in efforts to fix something that is a core Tivo issue that cannot be fixed locally. Those folks hopefully end up getting at least unbiased information rather than technically false information.

BTW, the "waist" comment was MY pointing out the previous posters using that term. Perhaps you might read the posts you're commenting on....


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

wmhjr said:


> Yes, and some folks who come here for help get false information (such as in this thread) that causes them to go through ridiculous trial and error crap in efforts to fix something that is a core Tivo issue that cannot be fixed locally. Those folks hopefully end up getting at least unbiased information rather than technically false information.
> 
> BTW, the "waist" comment was MY pointing out the previous posters using that term. Perhaps you might read the posts you're commenting on....


Thanks for proving my point, it is interesting to note, that you assumed my post only applied to *you*. 
Frequently subsequent posters add information which does not really apply or is unlikely to resolve any particular issue and it is not uncommon to see a relevant post ignored. Let the readers decide who is providing the best information
The real point is that posts which demonstrate "superiority" to others tend to degrade into rudeness and insults very quickly which really don't help anyone and don't add clarity to the arguments. That is what is best avoided. 
While the issue at hand may well be not related to the local network the only sure way to determine this would likely include ruling that out anyway. 
Please have a good day.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

fcfc2 said:


> Thanks for proving my point, it is interesting to note, that you assumed my post only applied to *you*.
> Frequently subsequent posters add information which does not really apply or is unlikely to resolve any particular issue and it is not uncommon to see a relevant post ignored. Let the readers decide who is providing the best information
> The real point is that posts which demonstrate "superiority" to others tend to degrade into rudeness and insults very quickly which really don't help anyone and don't add clarity to the arguments. That is what is best avoided.
> While the issue at hand may well be not related to the local network the only sure way to determine this would likely include ruling that out anyway.
> Please have a good day.


And being even more clear, the poster in question telling the person asking for help that it was "rare" that it's a Tivo issue, or that it's only when the "Tivo Servers are down" is patently false information.

Yes, ruling out local issues is important. However, one should remember Occam's Razor, yes? The more assumptions one has to make the less accurate the hypothesis likely is.... In this case, we've got tons of posts and threads discussing this very issue, with factual acknowledgement that the root cause for at least a great deal of it is in fact with Tivo Hosting Services. Therefore, to pretty casually discard this as even possible, much less likely, does a disservice to this site and to the OP.

Yes, I am very disappointed in Tivo - very much. Certainly I'm biased. However in this case, it's facts in evidence - not bias. The person making the claim that this is not typically a Tivo issue but rather sending the OP on what is most likely a wild goose chase is simply an extension of the extraordinarily poor technical support provided by Tivo themselves. It not only provides no value, but rather, it provides negative value.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

wmhjr said:


> And being even more clear, the poster in question telling the person asking for help that it was "rare" that it's a Tivo issue, or that it's only when the "Tivo Servers are down" is patently false information.
> 
> Yes, ruling out local issues is important. However, one should remember Occam's Razor, yes? The more assumptions one has to make the less accurate the hypothesis likely is.... In this case, we've got tons of posts and threads discussing this very issue, with factual acknowledgement that the root cause for at least a great deal of it is in fact with Tivo Hosting Services. Therefore, to pretty casually discard this as even possible, much less likely, does a disservice to this site and to the OP.
> 
> Yes, I am very disappointed in Tivo - very much. Certainly I'm biased. However in this case, it's facts in evidence - not bias. The person making the claim that this is not typically a Tivo issue but rather sending the OP on what is most likely a wild goose chase is simply an extension of the extraordinarily poor technical support provided by Tivo themselves. It not only provides no value, but rather, it provides negative value.





wmhjr said:


> And being even more clear, the poster in question telling the person asking for help that it was "rare" that it's a Tivo issue, or that it's only when the "Tivo Servers are down" is patently false information.
> 
> Yes, ruling out local issues is important. However, one should remember Occam's Razor, yes? The more assumptions one has to make the less accurate the hypothesis likely is.... In this case, we've got tons of posts and threads discussing this very issue, with factual acknowledgement that the root cause for at least a great deal of it is in fact with Tivo Hosting Services. Therefore, to pretty casually discard this as even possible, much less likely, does a disservice to this site and to the OP.
> 
> Yes, I am very disappointed in Tivo - very much. Certainly I'm biased. However in this case, it's facts in evidence - not bias. The person making the claim that this is not typically a Tivo issue but rather sending the OP on what is most likely a wild goose chase is simply an extension of the extraordinarily poor technical support provided by Tivo themselves. It not only provides no value, but rather, it provides negative value.


You are 100% correct and perfect in every way. I hope you feel better.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

fcfc2 said:


> You are 100% correct and perfect in every way. I hope you feel better.


Not really. It's kind of sad that there is a group of people so defensive about potential "problems" that they're OK with what appears to be supporting deliberately false information being provided to others, but critical of actual facts. In any case, have a nice day.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Pulling the network cable allows you to quickly determine whether something on the network side is causing the blue spinning circles vs something on your unit itself, hard drive, tuner, cablecard, tuning adapters, etc.

It doesn't tell you what part of the network side is causing the issue, just that it is some network issue.

You can simulate this by pulling the cable from your router WAN and seeing the blue spinning circles show up when you try and playback shows. You will no doubt claim that I'm suggesting the OPs network connection is dead. That isn't the purpose. Instead I'm just simulating the behavior or the UI if your TiVo doesn't get a DNS response or if it has the IP address and sends out a packet request and there is no response from TiVo. "TiVo" meaning TiVo's servers, TiVo's Hosting Service, akamai for images, etc.

Keeping the router WAN disconnected, if you disconnect the ethernet cable from the TiVo, those blue spinning circles you get when you try and playback shows, go away.

This is all factual.

Your dispute centers around whether it is "normal" for one to have blue spinning circles. I stated it is not normal to have blue spinning circles. I didn't say it never happens. You somehow interpreted that to mean I'm discounting the contribution of TiVo's UI design to being susceptible to network issues or blue spinning circles. You also intepreted network issues to mean "local" network issues, which I never claimed. Network issues include everything that would cause the packet request from your TiVo to go out and the response to either not come back or be delayed.

So if the OP sees the blue spinning circles go away when unplugging the network cable, they know for sure it is something on the network side.

Your claim is then that this would then cause the OP to track down some phantom network issue, when in fact this is the design and just the way it works.

I claim that this is not normal. If TiVo servers are functioning normally and your network, both local, ISP, DNS, etc. are functioning normally you will not be seeing blue spinning circles (that are due to network requests)

Here is where you disagree. Since you feel this is just a design flaw and maybe in your situation you see blue spinning circles often, you attribute this to be working as designed.

I am not going to comment on your issue, but I have a Roamio, Roamio Pro, 2 Bolts and 2 Minis. I almost never see blue spinning circles and my TiVo has the same design as yours, so this is an existence proof, that if TiVo servers are functioning normally and the network in between the local TiVo and TiVo servers is functioning properly, blue spinning circles are not present.

Is it possible that some akamai servers serving images to OPs area are having issues but those issues are not present for my area? Sure. Is it possible OP has a local network issue? Sure. That isn't the point though. The point was to quickly determine network side or non network side causing the blue spinning circles.

You have so convinced yourself blue spinning circles are just expected behavior due to poor TiVo design, that you will immediately jump to that conclusion, even though to properly diagnose a situation, you should step through and eliminate the possibilities one by one.

You didn't even ask OP a single question yet you immediately know the cause. Where are your "facts", are you substituting your own "facts" for the OP? How do you know the OPs internet connection is not occasionally going down? The blue spinning circles from that event look the same as blue spinning circles when TiVo's servers don't respond promptly or at all.

This is the last I'm going to respond to you on this topic. You'll no doubt respond about how I'm so totally off base, off by a country mile, spewing falsehoods to waste everybody's time.

Everyone can read for themselves and make their own judgments.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Again, you keep saying false statements. Pulling the cable does NOT tell you it's a network issue. It only tells you it's not something with your specific Roamio/Bolt/Whatever. You really ought to do a bit of self-education, and perhaps read some of the threads about the BSCs before throwing out false information.

You also previously stated that it's only when the Tivo servers are "down" that this can happen - which is obviously a totally false statement. Now you're changing your tune and saying it's when they're not "functioning normally" - though you are in fact continuing to miss any potential issues caused by load balancers, packet management devices, SAN, etc....

I never jumped to the conclusion that the OP was experiencing this due to Tivo issues. I simply rebutted your contention that it only happens when "Tivo servers are down" and the this is a very rare occurrence. And that it's only due to "network issues". 

As for the rest, do what you want. Clearly, you're of the mindset that if it works well for you, it must be somebody elses fault and can't be a Tivo issue. There is a description for that kind of thought process, but I won't dignify it with identifying it here. People can make their own judgements. I certainly have in this case.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)




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