# Tivo HD without cable card



## briankasperek (Mar 17, 2009)

I have basic analog cable, no cable box or digital box.
When I got my HD Tv, it set up for about fifteen digital channels. The info on the Tivo HD says you need a cable card to record HD stations but one of the threads said you don't need it for OTA. Will the Tivo HD record digital stations that come in on the cable even without any cable box?


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

You can record any unencrypted digital (clear QAM) channels, but you will not get any guide data for them. The Tivo Series 3/HD/XL models require CableCard(s) to get guide data for digital channels.


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## Rodwalls (Jan 12, 2009)

Speaking of OTA, I can record in HD no cards needed. I only do OTA so I can't answer the cable question.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

briankasperek said:


> I have basic analog cable, no cable box or digital box.
> When I got my HD Tv, it set up for about fifteen digital channels. The info on the Tivo HD says you need a cable card to record HD stations but one of the threads said you don't need it for OTA. Will the Tivo HD record digital stations that come in on the cable even without any cable box?


Your TiVo will NOT record any digital (Cable) channels that are encripted without a cable card or STB!

With "FiOS" and _possibly_ cable companies without a cable card or STB running off the coax alone you can get SD and Local HD channels WGN and many music channels. if you have a cable company you may get other analog channels. FiOS is all digital!

Your TiVo WILL record any OTA channels.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe01880 said:


> Your TiVo will NOT record any digital channels without a cable card.
> 
> Your TiVo WILL record any OTA channel.
> 
> After June 12 there will be NO analog channels cable OTA anyplace..PERIOD


This is just wrong. First, your Tivo CAN record digital channels without a cable card. But these will all be QAM "in the clear" channels, which usually includes the local OTA channels and some others, sometimes more. But you will have no guide data - just manual recording.

Second, after June it's true there will largely be no more OTA analog. But many cable companies will still be providing cable analog, though this is changing in some regions as the companies migrate to all digital lineups.


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## Pixel (Jan 10, 2003)

Joe01880 said:


> After June 12 there will be NO analog channels cable OTA anyplace..PERIOD


Not true. On Time Warner cable (and probably others) in SE Wisconsin there will continue to be SD analog channels following the shut down of analog broadcasting.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Joe01880 said:


> After June 12 there will be NO analog channels cable OTA anyplace..PERIOD


Charter in NC/SC doesn't even broadcast 2-99 in digital and they have no plans to change on June 12th. They will continue with their analogs for quite some time.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

briankasperek said:


> I have basic analog cable, no cable box or digital box.


By "basic" do you mean lifeline, or do you have a more general basic package? IOW, are you paying more like $20 or more like $50 a month. Do you get channels like ESPN, TNT, Comedy Central?

If so, you can probably get a CableCARD and it'll add about $2 to your monthly bill. Completely worth doing. At least with Comcast, there's a "Digital Starter" package that's the same price as analog Expanded Basic, only with a digital box (or a CableCARD if you ask).

With Comcast, that package includes more channels in HD that just your OTA channels. This is the list for Digital Starter in Philly.

ABC Family HD* Children & Family 
Comcast SportsNet HD* High-Definition TV 
ESPN HD* High-Definition TV 
ESPN2 HD* High-Definition TV 
TNT HD* High-Definition TV 
HD Theater* High-Definition TV 
VERSUS HD* Sports 
Golf Channel HD* High-Definition TV 
Universal HD* High-Definition TV 
Palladia* High-Definition TV 
A&E HD* High-Definition TV 
HGTV HD* High-Definition TV 
Food Network HD* High-Definition TV 
History Channel HD* News & Info 
TBS HD* High-Definition TV 
CNN HD* News & Info 
USA HD* Lifestyle 
Discovery HD* High-Definition TV 
TLC HD* News & Info 
Sci-Fi HD* 
Animal Planet HD* Children & Family 
WPVI - ABC HD* High-Definition TV 
WCAU - NBC HD* High-Definition TV 
KYW - CBS HD* High-Definition TV 
WTXF - FOX HD* High-Definition TV 
WPHL - MY HD* High-Definition TV 
WPSG - CW HD* High-Definition TV 
AMC HD* Movies 
Disney HD* Children & Family

You need equipment to receive them, either an HD cable box or a TiVoHD with a CableCARD.

If you're on the $20 lifeline package, you might still be able to get a CableCARD for just the $2 rental fee without upgrading your package, but you might have to fight about it. If you can, I would.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

If you can receive channels without either a cable box or cable cards, the Tivo will receive the same. Just the encrypted digital channels you will not receive without cable cards.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

ThAbtO said:


> If you can receive channels without either a cable box or cable cards, the Tivo will receive the same. Just the encrypted digital channels you will not receive without cable cards.


The TiVo will receive them. But if they're digital channels, it won't know what they are and won't be able to create season passes with them, record with auto-recording wish lists on them, or otherwise know what's on them at any given time.


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## fgcchevy (Mar 9, 2009)

briankasperek said:


> I have basic analog cable, no cable box or digital box.
> When I got my HD Tv, it set up for about fifteen digital channels. The info on the Tivo HD says you need a cable card to record HD stations but one of the threads said you don't need it for OTA. Will the Tivo HD record digital stations that come in on the cable even without any cable box?


i have the limited basic cable package $11.95 per month, i can receive all local broadcast stations in hd. i cannot get the program guide data but i can record the hd channels by maunually recording them. manual recordings also give you the option to record once or every week on a specific day and time. i am happy with my set up because i will now save around $80 per month on my cable bill.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Joe01880 said:


> After June 12 there will be NO analog channels cable OTA anyplace..PERIOD


Not completely true. There are low power analog stations that can stay analog. I realize this doesn't affect the vast majority of people and qualifies as a nitpick.



Pixel said:


> Not true. On Time Warner cable (and probably others) in SE Wisconsin there will continue to be SD analog channels following the shut down of analog broadcasting.


He was talking about OTA. Cable is irrelevant.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

mattack said:


> He was talking about OTA. Cable is irrelevant.


Looks like he was talking about cable, OTA and anyplace. He's wrong about the first two, not sure about anyplace.


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## tombro (Mar 18, 2009)

Good thread, good replies. I am a noob here and just got my TiVo HD last Sunday. I scanned for channels, and noted that to get the guide functionality, etc, a cableCARD is needed.

We have central NJ Comcast, and have been getting starter digital without a box for the longest time. We only have one HD TV, which is where the TiVo is connected. As a previous poster said, you can record HD channels manually. I cheat with the guide part by viewing programming guides for the analog (if recording network TV) station, then setting my record Fx manually for the HD signal. Just like VHS tape-recording.

I am ordering my cards for the ease of use, however, from Comcast.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

darksurtur said:


> This is just wrong. First, your Tivo CAN record digital channels without a cable card. But these will all be QAM "in the clear" channels, which usually includes the local OTA channels and some others, sometimes more. But you will have no guide data - just manual recording.
> .............


I know what you mean, but be careful how you say it. Yeah, with the cable card, what you can record includes the OTA channel being passed along the cable wire. But that is not the same as using a OTA antenna to get your channels. If you use an OTA antenna, even without cable cards, you will get guide data.



fgcchevy said:


> i have the limited basic cable package $11.95 per month, i can receive all local broadcast stations in hd. i cannot get the program guide data but i can record the hd channels by maunually recording them. manual recordings also give you the option to record once or every week on a specific day and time. i am happy with my set up because i will now save around $80 per month on my cable bill.


I have comcast lifeline too and I love it this way. You might want to spring for the card so you don't have to worry about tons of manual recordings. In my region, the first card is free. So thankfully, they had M series cards when they did my install.


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## fgcchevy (Mar 9, 2009)

jlb said:


> I know what you mean, but be careful how you say it. Yeah, with the cable card, what you can record includes the OTA channel being passed along the cable wire. But that is not the same as using a OTA antenna to get your channels. If you use an OTA antenna, even without cable cards, you will get guide data.
> 
> I have comcast lifeline too and I love it this way. You might want to spring for the card so you don't have to worry about tons of manual recordings. In my region, the first card is free. So thankfully, they had M series cards when they did my install.


yea i tried getting the cards, but they told me i would have to upgrade to the digital starter pack then pay an extra $6 or so for the cable cards. if idid that it would put me in the same range of price as where i was at. i think they are lying about needing to have the digital pack just to get my higher subscription back. i am tired of comcast lying about this that and the other, i will just stick with the manual recordings, whick isnt really that big of a deal anyway and pay a lot less $


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

fgcchevy said:


> yea i tried getting the cards, but they told me i would have to upgrade to the digital starter pack then pay an extra $6 or so for the cable cards. if idid that it would put me in the same range of price as where i was at. i think they are lying about needing to have the digital pack just to get my higher subscription back. i am tired of comcast lying about this that and the other, i will just stick with the manual recordings, whick isnt really that big of a deal anyway and pay a lot less $


Some people have tried upgrading to Digital Starter, getting the CableCARDs installed and working, and then downgrading back to Limited Basic a month later and seeing if they let you keep the CableCARDs.


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## fgcchevy (Mar 9, 2009)

aindik said:


> Some people have tried upgrading to Digital Starter, getting the CableCARDs installed and working, and then downgrading back to Limited Basic a month later and seeing if they let you keep the CableCARDs.


i already did that, i had the cards installed and working, then i called to downgrade my service. when they came out to put the trap they said they had to take the cards. i argued with the tech about it, telling him that i was gonna get a monthly charge for the cards, why didnt he just leave them in. i did realize that with trap put on my line and the cards installed i still got all the hd channels in the higher price plan, thats probably why the take the cards.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I think denying cable cards unless you get a certain package is wrong and illegal.


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## fgcchevy (Mar 9, 2009)

jlb said:


> I think denying cable cards unless you get a certain package is wrong and illegal.


do u have a link to that law? if u do please post it for me so i can call my cable company about it


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

fgcchevy said:


> i already did that, i had the cards installed and working, then i called to downgrade my service. when they came out to put the trap they said they had to take the cards. i argued with the tech about it, telling him that i was gonna get a monthly charge for the cards, why didnt he just leave them in. i did realize that with trap put on my line and the cards installed i still got all the hd channels in the higher price plan, thats probably why the take the cards.


I thought the PURPOSE of the CableCard was to tell the device which channels you are paying to receive. It sounds like your cable company has no clue how to configure the cards or your tech was just telling you something to end the disagreement. Of course, I'm no expert on this matter, but I think my layman's understanding is sound.


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

jlb said:


> I think denying cable cards unless you get a certain package is wrong and illegal.


I'll bite - right now, basic is not encrypted (on Comcast in MA), so if you pay for basic service and don't need cards to tune them in, what is the point in insisting on having them? I only have the main TiVo carded to get the expanded channels in high def.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

JoeTaxpayer said:


> I'll bite - right now, basic is not encrypted (on Comcast in MA), so if you pay for basic service and don't need cards to tune them in, what is the point in insisting on having them? I only have the main TiVo carded to get the expanded channels in high def.


So that you can tune to the unencrypted basic channels on their appropriate channel numbers.

(And so the TiVo can set season passes, not that the FCC or Comcast care about that).


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Joe01880 said:


> Your TiVo will NOT record any digital (Cable) channels without a cable card or STB!
> 
> With FiOS and possibly cable companies without a cable card or STB running off the coax alone you can get SD and Local HD channels WGN and many music channels. if you have a cable company you may get other analog channels. FiOS is all digital!
> 
> ...


As already said, TiVo Series 3s most certainly DO get unscrambled QAM cable channels without cable cards. No guide data, but they tune the channels and can record them. That's what the QAM tuner is FOR.

FiOS has switched to all digital, and you'll get NOTHING without one of their boxes or cable cards.

The June 12th date is NOT the cutoff date for cable, and many cable providers will continue to have analog channels which older TVs (especially cable-ready ones) will be able to get without a cable box. It's expected that eventually that will change, but the June 12th date has NOTHING to do with cable companies still having analog channels.


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

aindik said:


> So that you can tune to the unencrypted basic channels on their appropriate channel numbers.
> 
> (And so the TiVo can set season passes, not that the FCC or Comcast care about that).


My TiVos without cards do both just fine. They both get basic right up to ch 96.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

JoeTaxpayer said:


> My TiVos without cards do both just fine. They both get basic right up to ch 96.


Analog. Not digital.


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

aindik said:


> Analog. Not digital.


They can get digital chanels that are NOT encrypted.

Don H.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

wtkflhn said:


> They can get digital chanels that are NOT encrypted.
> 
> Don H.


Not on the right channel numbers and not with guide data.


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## briankasperek (Mar 17, 2009)

I was away for awhile but have been interested in the posts. 

I called Tivo and they said the HD box would receive channels up to 99 without a card. This would allow me to only record three of the 15 digital channels that I get on my HD tv because most of them are over ch 100.

What I worry about is that if I buy the series two which is all I actually need,
a changeover to all digital by Oceanic would leave the box useless.

I only pay $12 for the basic analog service but do get some channels that are not on the basic list. The standard cable is $52 but doesn't get me many other channels that I really am interested in. If I went with basic digital, I would probably lose TCM, Weather, ESPN news and some others not on the basic list for either analog or digital. 

Any comments?


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

briankasperek said:


> I called Tivo and they said the HD box would receive channels up to 99 without a card. This would allow me to only record three of the 15 digital channels that I get on my HD tv because most of them are over ch 100.


It will pick up any unencrypted digital channel, whether or not it is above channel 99.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

RonDawg said:


> It will pick up any unencrypted digital channel, whether or not it is above channel 99.


It will, but the overall result is about as pleasant as a root canal!

The TiVo HD will *record* clear QAM programs, but it won't *display* the recorded programs very well. You can only use manual recordings, so they show up in your Now Playing something like this:

111-17 Manual recording
123-42 Manual recording

I don't remember exactly how the programs appear, because I tried to do manual recordings but gave up and got cablecards. Which was exactly what TiVo and Comcast wanted me to do.

It's shameful that TiVo refuses to do better than that for clear QAM without cablecards. TiVo knows about the problem, but they don't care. It's too low on their priority list. It's more important to them to plaster adverts for crappy Dominos pizza all over the GUI.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> ...The TiVo HD will *record* clear QAM programs, but it won't *display* the recorded programs very well. ....


What do you mean by this? Are you seeing a picture quality problem?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> What do you mean by this? Are you seeing a picture quality problem?


He means in the Now Playing list.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> What do you mean by this? Are you seeing a picture quality problem?


As aindik explained, my post was poorly worded.

The TiVo displays the actual program quite well. It doesn't display meta information about the program very well without cablecards.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> As aindik explained, my post was poorly worded.
> 
> The TiVo displays the actual program quite well. It doesn't display meta information about the program very well without cablecards.


Not only that but repeated manual recordings don't always function properly. I was part of the previous beta program and tested this for them and no fix was deployed that I know of. Not a single "episode" recorded and I was trying both daily and weekly recordings.

I have a duplicate Cinemax channel with no guide data to test with.


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## fgcchevy (Mar 9, 2009)

i finally got my cable cards without any additional charges, except for the cable card fee of $1.50. i did not have to upgrade my service either, i still have my limited basic. now i can set up season passes on individual shows with my guide data for the hd channels, as opposed to having to manually schedule all my recordings. finally comcast does something right!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

And that's why Tivo won't bother with this - for *most * people, getting a cheap CC is the easy answer to the problem.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Okay, to sum up since it's all scattered around. Without a Cable Card, the TiVo S3/HD will record

Over-the-air (antenna) programs, both digital and analog
Analog cable channels
Unencrypted digital cable channels, but it will not have program guide data for them
The Cable Card gives you the ability to record all digital cable channels that you subscribe to with correct guide data.

One other note: although all analog cable channels will be 2-99, there can also be digital channels in that range. You can't count on being able to record a channel normally without a Cable Card just because it's less than 100.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

alansh said:


> One other note: although all analog cable channels will be 2-99, there can also be digital channels in that range. You can't count on being able to record a channel normally without a Cable Card just because it's less than 100.


I think standard practice with cable companies is that channels mapped to numbers below 100 are analog. I say "mapped to," because the channel numbers we're looking at are the numbers you'd use if you had a cable box or a CableCARD, not the numbers you see with a clear QAM tuner. IOW, the public channel numbers, published on the cable company's web site.

Note, also, that some cable companies are still encrypting analog channels. So, the fact that a channel is "analog" is not enough to say that the TiVoHD will see it without a CableCARD.


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