# Bolt 5TB drive?



## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

*Will the bolt take a 2.5-inch drive 15mm thick?
Has anyone tried this drive?
Will the bolt use all the drive?
Seagate Barracuda 2.5in 5tb Sata 2.5in 5400rpm 6gb/s 128mb 15*

Digital Storage Capacity5 TBCompatible DevicesDesktopBrandSeagateSeriesST5000LM000Connectivity TechnologySATAHard Disk Form Factor2.5 InchesForm Factor2.5 inchRead Speed140 Megabytes Per SecondCache Size128Item Weight190 Grams

Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-2-5in-5400rpm-128mb/dp/B01LXO31IZ
I found an OEM version on eBay for about half that price.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I don’t believe it would fit, but, just as well, since it’s an SMR drive.






CMR and SMR Hard Drives | Seagate US


See the list of recording technology utilized on our internal hard drives



www.seagate.com





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See also:








Drive upgrades, replacement, CMR, SMR, PMR


So confusing now, I found this site which breaks down by manufacturer, then drive size, then platter capacity, model numbers listed within platter capacity, also specifically mentions SMR for many model/platter capacities. Seems to be fairly up to date, I will be using it to check drives for...




www.tivocommunity.com












WD Reds, the CMR SMR fiasco


As most know WD changed the 2-6TB current model 3.5 reds to SMR without informing the public. Which caused a lot of grief. The EFAX models. Now they are doing something new. The SMR EFAX 2-6TB models are still marketed as Reds. But they have "rereleased" the EFRX Reds, they now call them "Red...




www.tivocommunity.com


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

What is the problem with SMR drives?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

johnd01 said:


> What is the problem with SMR drives?


See one of MANY articles about shingled drives like What is shingled magnetic recording (SMR)? - Definition from WhatIs.com. The issue is that TiVo is continually writing and the shingled drive won't be able to keep up and eventually will quickly stop working, if it works at all.

It's been discussed many many times here. Is it possible to use an SSD drive in a TiVo BOLT +? was one of my replies.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

johnd01 said:


> What is the problem with SMR drives?


If the drive is never idle to allow for regeneration, it will run very slow or could crash.

And that's a realistic possibility in a tivo.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

johnd01 said:


> *What is the problem with SMR drives?*


Really?  

What was the result of your GOOGLE Search? 🍿


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

johnd01 said:


> What is the problem with SMR drives?





cwerdna said:


> ...*It's been discussed many many times here*. Is it possible to use an SSD drive in a TiVo BOLT +? was one of my replies.


I '_brought over_' some of @cwerdna 's text just so that I could more easily expand upon it:


cwerdna said:


> *I suggest you understand what shingled magnetic recording (SMR) is*, why it is was created, its disadvantages, and understand the descriptions of the algorithms. Then, think about the writing behavior a TiVo has and why that can be a problem if you install an SMR drive, esp. if the TiVO didn't ship with one.
> 
> *It's like roof shingles that overlap slightly. When an SMR drive writes, it writes wider than width of the track it is writing to can affect data on adjacent track(s)*...


In an effort to cut costs, and store MORE DATA on platters the same PHYSICAL SIZE as CMR HDDs, the tracks are CLOSER TOGETHER on SMR HDDs. The result is that a SMR HDD acts much like a solid-state storage device (i.e. Flash, SD, even SSD) in that changing ONE BYTE of data requires the READING IN, UPDATING, WRITING OUT of an ENTIRE BLOCK of DATA. The SMR HDD manufacturer allocated a SMALL region of the HDD as a temporary 'Buffer Area' where data can be QUICKLY written, to eventually be MOVED (to its 'proper place' during a future 'Idle' period) but if the SMR HDD is never allowed sufficient 'Idle' time, it will overflow the 'Buffer Area' and begin to suffer greatly.

It's easy to see this problem with Windows File Explorer when copying multiple, ESPECIALLY small, files to a Flash or SD drive - the copy BEGINS at a HIGH RATE of transfer but once the 'Buffer Area' is exhausted, DROPS to a CRAWL for the remainder.

*NOTE:* Even if you DON'T overflow the 'Buffer Area', you still won't be able to SAFELY UNPLUG a Flash or SD drive until the WRITE is completed, regardless of what Windows File Explorer shows. 


Spoiler



Folks should always do their own HOMEWORK / RESEARCH before posting questions but that doesn't seem to happen much...


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

What about dropping in a 2TB 2.5" SSD instead...just bought a refurbed one for $130.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

ncbill said:


> What about dropping in a 2TB 2.5" SSD instead...just bought a refurbed one for $130.


Then you run into problems w/the SSD wearing out due to the massive amount of writing TiVos do constantly. It's really bad with lower endurance drives that use TLC or even worse QLC flash vs. say SLC or MLC. Example article at https://www.techradar.com/news/nand-and-cells-slc-qlc-tlc-and-mlc-explained.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

ncbill said:


> What about dropping in a 2TB 2.5" SSD instead...just bought a refurbed one for $130.


I have concerns with an SSD writing repeatedly in the same space. How long with that buffer area last?
I would instead install the largest compatible HDD I can find? 
I have 1TB now, and I have a lot of other storage, but I would like to get to 3TB on this TIVO if it is practical.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

See also: Thoughts on Using an External HDD With a Bolt


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

johnd01 said:


> *Will the bolt take a 2.5-inch drive 15mm thick?
> Has anyone tried this drive?
> Will the bolt use all the drive?
> Seagate Barracuda 2.5in 5tb Sata 2.5in 5400rpm 6gb/s 128mb 15*
> ...


Yes it will fit. The 4TB drives I had were the same thickness. I used a couple of 4TB Seagate drives in my Bolts for around two years and around four years. One died around a couple of years old. And the other died around four years old.

Not sure that the 5TB drive will work in the Bolt though. I had firmware 0001 on my 4TB Seagate drives. But people with later firmware revisions ,for the 4TB drives, had issues.

Once my last 4TB Seagate SMR drive died, I replaced it with a 2TB Toshiba PMR drive. *TOSHIBA MQ03ABB200. *Which is also 15mm high.









Amazon.com: TOSHIBA MQ03ABB200 2.5 2TB 5400RPM SATA - 3 yr Factory Warranty Toshiba MQ03ABB200 : Electronics


Amazon.com: TOSHIBA MQ03ABB200 2.5 2TB 5400RPM SATA - 3 yr Factory Warranty Toshiba MQ03ABB200 : Electronics



www.amazon.com


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

johnd01 said:


> I have concerns with an SSD writing repeatedly in the same space. How long with that buffer area last?.


That's not how it works. Before an SSD writes, it has to erase. There are wear leveling algorithms so it's not the same blocks being always overwritten.

Maybe read up at The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD or start from page 1: The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD. He only covered SLC and MLC flash in that article. Now there's TLC and QLC with even less write endurance than MLC.

https://www.techradar.com/news/nand-and-cells-slc-qlc-tlc-and-mlc-explained points out figures in terms of P/E (program/erase) cycles for:
SLC: 100,000
MLC: 10,000
TLC: 3,000
QLC: 1,000

Really cheap large SSDs that aren't enterprise class these days are going to tend to be TLC or QLC. They'll say so in the specs and also in their specs will indicate their endurance or warranty period by TBW (terabytes written). They might also indicate DPWD (Drive Writes Per Day) they can tolerate before you prematurely wear them out/void your warranty.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Somebody here has been using a 7.68TB enterprise class SSD that's still going, right?

Is that one SLC or MLC?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

ncbill said:


> Somebody here has been using a 7.68TB enterprise class SSD that's still going, right?
> 
> Is that one SLC or MLC?


Yes, but remember, TE3 only. That is what they are using. I don't know of any SSD that works with TE4 (though there may be). TE4 = CMR drives, anything else, SMR, SSD, Esata connection, good luck, may not work at all, may work but not well (short life, as if the relatively short life of CMR 2.5" drives is not bad enough.) With Bolt Sata to Sata external with 3.5 CMR best possible scenario, IMO


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