# Can a Slingbox 500 replace both a Tivo Stream and Tivo Mini Vox?



## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I have neither a Tivo Stream or a Tivo Mini Vox.

I do have a Tivo Premiere XL4, connected to the downstairs TV.

If I were to get a Slingbox 500, and connect it downstairs, could I:

* Use my upstairs TV's built in Chromecast to watch live TV, and play my Tivo recordings. 

* Stream out of home to a Windows 7 or Windows 10 PC.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I see with a Slingbox, there can only be 1 user.

So someone couldn't be watching TV downstairs, and also upstairs.

But with a Tivo Mini Vox, the Mini Vox could use a tuner to watch something else.

I also see that SlingPlayer isn't on AndroidTV. I would have to use SlingPlayer on my Android Phone, and cast it to the TV. I don't like doing that.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Can someone please confirm my understanding?


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Yes on the TiVo.

For the sling box you’d end up watching the same channel.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Slingbox is great for viewing outside your home but very tedious, clunky and slow to operate. I would never use one in place of a Mini.


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## kcejo (Sep 12, 2017)

I've used my Slingbox to stream to a Windows 7 and Windows 10 PC out of the home. It's a great option for that, but I agree with mdavej that it is tedious, clunky and slow to operate. If Tivo would actually allow out-of-home streaming like they advertise, I wouldn't use the Slingbox. But, until they do, it's still a good option. And I agree that I would not use a Slingbox in place of a Mini at home.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I see with a Slingbox, there can only be 1 user.
> 
> So someone couldn't be watching TV downstairs, and also upstairs.
> 
> ...


The best and eaiest way to watch your content streaming from a Slingbox to be viewed on a big HDTV is to get the Amazon Fire TV and then load the free Slingbox app. When you launch the free Slingbox app on Fire TV connected to your big HDTV it automatically connects to the Slingbox and your sling content image appears on your big HDTV in good quality even in slow internet situations. While the menus for the Slingbox app can take getting used to, I'm always amazed at how easy it is to sling my content to a great big HDTV and have great picture quality either at home on my LAN or remotely at someone else's house using their HDTV.

You can also use a Roku to watch sling content on an HDTV but for the Roku you have to use your mobile device to initiate the connection and then _*your mobile device becomes the remote control for your sling content. *_ The Roku remote control is not used while you're watching and controlling your sling the content

The Slingbox uses Superior proprietary encoding that allows a good picture Quality In even slow limited bandwidth internet connections. while 8 megabits per second provides the highest quality picture, one can still get *good* quality picture with Upstream as slow as 3 megabits per second. The Tivo Mini does a very inferior job of sending out good picture quality consistently. The Slingbox encodes on the Fly constantly adjusting to the internet speed being fast or a little slow et cetera and it does all this without having to drop the picture or force you to start all over.

the only real value of the TiVo Stream is its ability to transfer recordings to your mobile devices, but of course only recordings that don't have any copy protection on them, so that further limits the value of the TiVo Stream. TiVo Stream is an old product that hasn't been manufactured for years and as far as I know not a single update on Hanson has been added to the stream since.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> You can also use a Roku to watch sling content on an HDTV but for the Roku you have to use your mobile device to initiate the connection and then _*your mobile device becomes the remote control for your sling content. *_ The Roku remote control is not used while you're watching and controlling your sling the content


How easy is it to use my mobile device to navigate in time? Do they have options to skip ahead 30 seconds or something? Or do I have to use my finger to pinpoint exactly when to stop? That's annoying to me, as when I let my finger go, it still jumps forward or backward 1 - 2 minutes.

I'm asking for both playing a recording, or live TV.

Since the owner where I'd be doing the out of home streaming has a Roku, I'd be using that.

But is it any easier to navigate in time from a Fire TV?

As for the OP, I've realized that the Slingbox can't replace both, so I'd also be getting a Tivo Mini.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm assuming that if I use a laptop/PC to Sling content, it's much easier to navigate in time? Are there easy options to navigate backwards or forwards?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok, if I go to 2:19, I see there's time navigation to skip behind and ahead. Good.

I don't know why the skip ahead is grayed out in this instance, but at least it's possible.






Is there any chance that I can also use Tivo's time hashmarks to skip ahead to the next mark, when Slinging?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

(I'm quoting some posts from another thread into this thread, because I don't want to get too off-topic with the title of the other thread.)



krkaufman said:


> The Slingbox is effectively like someone sitting in front of the attached/controlled box, and someone watching/using the main TiVo doesn't affect Mini use ... aside from potentially competing for live TV tuners.
> 
> The Slingbox is best paired with whichever box is least likely to be used by a home user when someone else is Slinging. For this reason, many users use a dedicated Mini for the Slingbox to avoid usage conflicts with whoever is at home.
> 
> Having compatible A/V outputs also plays a part.





krkaufman said:


> Yes.


Great.

Given that I'm by myself, and I don't know which box would be used less in the future while someone else is Slinging, I'll do what's easier to connect for now.

It's easier to keep the Slingbox downstairs, and make a simple Ethernet connection to my switch.

I'll also keep the powered HDMI splitter downstairs.

It would be a nice to have to get my upstairs TV wired Internet, but if I don't need a coax to Ethernet adapter for any other device upstairs (such as a Slingbox), then I don't want to get the adapter just for the TV.

And I'm not sure if the TV needs wired internet, it was just a nice to have. I could always get a powerline Ethernet adapter if I don't want to get the bigger coax to Ethernet adapter, to add wired internet to my upstairs TV.

Here's what my shopping list looks like:

* Tivo Mini Vox

* Slingbox 500

* Powered HDMI Splitter. Do I need a 4K 30Hz or 4K 60Hz one?

* Device Mount for Tivo Mini:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M4NQ0S...colid=5ZOH1613TYZ9&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

If I'm not able to wall mount it in the same space where my TV mount is, then return it.

Already in stock:

* A 10' Etherent cable for the Slingbox.
* Wall mount cable clips for the coax cable that will go from the wall, across the room to the upstairs TV.
* Velcro cable concealing sleeves.
* Wall Mount TotalMount remote holder for upstairs TV and Tivo Mini remote.

And any idea about my last question in the post above, about being able to use Tivo's time hashmarks to jump in time, through a Slingbox? Especially if using the Android Sling Player to Sling through a Roku.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> And any idea about my last question in the post above, about being able to use Tivo's time hashmarks to jump in time, through a Slingbox? Especially if using the Android Sling Player to Sling through a Roku.


Works the same way as it does if you're sitting in front of your Tivo except you're using a virtual, on-screen remote instead of a real remote. So just press the same buttons on the virtual remote that you press on the Tivo remote, namely ffwd then skip. The only difference is you have time to go out and get a cup of coffee between button presses.

While slinging to a Fire TV is clunky but tolerable, slinging to a Roku is downright brutal and nearly impossible to do in a hotel room or wherever you'll be watching. You'll discover this the first time you try it. I suggest you test it at a friends house before your first trip.

I sling a lot when travelling internationally, and I find simply watching on a laptop to be the easiest way.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks. One last question, for now. I don't know if it matters, but do I need a 4K 30Hz or 4K 60Hz powered splitter? 

I'd be slinging to a Roku at a family member's.

And the virtual remote you mention, that's the same one that's at 2:19 in the video in post # 10, right?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Yes on the remote.

No idea about 4k. Don't have it myself and know very little about it.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

@Series3Sub , @mdavej, etc.

The Slingbox 500 has 2 HDMI ports. One HDMI In, and one HDMI Out.

What do I do with the HDMI Out? Is that necessary?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I would use that OUT instead of a splitter to show the Tivo screen on your local TV.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> I would use that OUT instead of a splitter to show the Tivo screen on your local TV.





Series3Sub said:


> Or if you take the HDMI route, referring to the earlier post, all you do is have an HDMI cable from the output of the cable sat box to the input of the splitter and then another HDMI cable from one of the outputs of the splitter into the Slingbox HDMI input.


As per @Series3Sub (from another thread), I'd be using the powered HDMI splitter to get around the copy protections when transmitting via HDMI.

He recommended I use the HDMI from the Tivo/Tivo Mini, to the input of the splitter. Then one output of the splitter to the Slingbox HDMI Input.

And the other output of the splitter to the TV.

Are you recommending that instead of going from the output of the splitter to the TV, that I use the output of the Slingbox HDMI Output, to the TV?

If so, why is that?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Who knows. My experience with HDMI splitters is very hit and miss. No harm in trying the simple way.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> As per @Series3Sub (from another thread), I'd be using the powered HDMI splitter to get around the copy protections when transmitting via HDMI.
> 
> He recommended I use the HDMI from the Tivo/Tivo Mini, to the input of the splitter. Then one output of the splitter to the Slingbox HDMI Input.
> 
> ...


Yes, from the splitter just use ONE HDMI output to the Slingbox and an HDMI cable from the Slingbox to the TV (ou can leave the other output(s) of the splitter disconnected). This is best because with the Slingbox 500, will allow your to set-up your Slingbox ON YOUR TV SCREEN, and that makes it an easier to follow all the prompts on the TV screen and verify with the testing screen. For the M1/M2, you must set up the those Slingboxes ON-LINE like at a PC via internet because M1/M2 don't have the set-up using your TV feature.

To be clear: The TiVo DVR BOX has an HDMI output, so you can use the HDMI splitter, but the analog output of the DVR Box varies (it could be either composite or component) by Series and Model and may require require component cables or breakout cable, and some DVR Boxes' output may only provide COMPOSITE video, which is SD and not pretty. On the other hand, The Mini has an HDMI out AND an analog out (using the breakout cable) that is COMPONENT video, and that is HD and all flagged programming should play through component connections. The Slingbox has COMPONENT input and output, as well, so you can still use the on screen prompts to set up the Slingbox 500 using COMPONENT, as well. The HDMI out of the Slingbox to your TV can output both HDMI and Component signals, so, if you want, you only need to connect the HDMI to see BOTH HDMI and Component using just the HDMI out from Slingbox to HDTV.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I installed and set up the Slingbox.

I connected both component and HDMI, but set the source to HDMI. I set up the powered HDMI splitter.

When I tried launching Slingplayer the first time on the PC, it didn't work. It said it couldn't connect to the Slingbox for some reason.

I tried again, and I was getting only audio.

I changed the source to component, then I got video. I then changed it back to HDMI, and I also got video.

Watching a TV show is fine. Watching MLB was ok.

But when I watched basketball, the basketball itself looked fuzzy when it was being passed. I've watched basketball on YouTube, or League Pass broadband before on this same PC and monitor, and it never looked fuzzy like that.

The video itself seemed fine in terms of smoothness. It's just that for some reason, the basketball looked blurry.

I then closed Slingplayer, and tried launching it again. It says "connecting to your slingbox in slingplayer" and doesn't do anything.

How do I get it to consistently work?

Also, when I was able to view SlingPlayer, every 10 - 20 seconds, there was a slow, line, moving vertically up the screen. Like the Hz was too slow or something.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I can't get the Slingbox to work in Firefox anymore. It worked once.

I've never gotten it working in Chrome.

It just says "connecting" and never advances.

For Internet Explorer, it always connects. But I get audio only 1/2 the time, even though the connection is "excellent".

Also, after launching Sling Player, every time I close Internet Explorer, I get a message that "Internet Explorer has stopped working".


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I wonder if the issue is with the handshake, as described here (#30). I tried disconnecting the HDMI powered splitter, and reconnecting it, but I still get audio most of the time.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

It finally worked again.

Basketball looked a tiny bit better this time (when the basketball was in motion).

I didn't see that slow line moving vertically upwards either.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Also, why am I getting a Clorox ad in Spanish, every time I go the the web Sling Player? It's happened everytime I've gone to Sling Player today.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Here's another thing that's bothering me about watching basketball. When compared to watching a game on YouTube, it seems like the game on SlingPlayer is at 1/2 or 3/4 speed. Again, this is with "excellent" connection. Yes, the game through SlingPlayer is preseason, compared to what I'm watching on YouTube.

But it just feels like whatever I'm watching on SlingPlayer on my PC is a little slower.

To be clear, I don't mean SlingPlayer looks choppy.

SlingPlayer looks smooth, but it's as if everything I'm watching is happening a little slower than on TV, or even YouTube. It's like it takes 1.3 seconds to watch 1 second.

The HDMI splitter I got was 4K, 60Hz, if that makes any difference.

I can't be certain that every single HDMI cable between the Tivo and Slingbox is HDCP 2.0.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

One "trick" to get Sling Player more consistently working seems to change the input to component, then back to HDMI.

While it's worked a few times when selecting HDMI from the start, is there a way where I don't have to do this every time?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

@Series3Sub , @mdavej. Let me know if you have any advice or feedback based on my comments today.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Also, I have a VPN set up. Is that going to affect out of home streaming?

Will I need to connect to my VPN first, before being able to stream through Sling Player?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

@krkaufman , @dean glaser , let me know if you also have any feedback in this thread. Especially for posts # 20 onward, which is when I installed my Slingbox.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Unlike others, I think the splitter is a bad idea, as I said before. Component works great for me. Also, you need to lower your expectations. Slingbox is never going to look great. It should look good, but won’t ever exactly match the source. I use the “embedded” player on web browsers and never see any ads, and it works every time. Lastly, I’ve never actually tried to use Slingbox on my own LAN, so I’m not sure what to expect there.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Unlike others, I think the splitter is a bad idea, as I said before. Component works great for me. Also, you need to lower your expectations. Slingbox is never going to look great. It should look good, but won't ever exactly match the source. I use the "embedded" player on web browsers and never see any ads, and it works every time. Lastly, I've never actually tried to use Slingbox on my own LAN, so I'm not sure what to expect there.


The ad plays before my Sling video starts (live streaming). It was a little annoying on Saturday because it was in Spanish every time, and I'm not sure why.

On Sunday, it was at least an English ad. The ad is about 15 seconds.

So when I use component, it's 3 cables for video, and 2 for audio, right? I have both HDMI and component video / stereo audio set up.

I'm just trying to make it work with HDMI right away, without having to go to the input settings and change the source to component for a second, then back to HDMI.

Overall I think the quality is ok, it just seems a little worse when watching something fast moving like basketball (specifically when a ball is passed).

Overall, I think things like NBA League Pass Broadband, MLV.tv , or ESPN on demand, have a little better quality. But Slingbox is still ok, and it will seemingly solve the problem of watching remotely.

I'll know for sure later this month when I'm out of town.

So do you not see an ad play right before your Slingbox stream starts?

I recall you saying that your experience with splitters was hit and miss. Is that why you think it's a bad idea?

Thanks for your response.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Zero ads with embedded player.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Zero ads with embedded player.


Thanks I just noticed that tonight. I launched it from the web browser instead of the desktop shortcut and there were no ads. Usually I have my laptop connected to the tv and use the old windows store app which I prefer over the web browser, or I use the Fire TV app. I may use the HTPC some now though.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

nuraman00 said:


> The ad plays before my Sling video starts (live streaming). It was a little annoying on Saturday because it was in Spanish every time, and I'm not sure why.
> 
> On Sunday, it was at least an English ad. The ad is about 15 seconds.
> 
> ...


SAP audio?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Sparky1234 said:


> SAP audio?


I don't remember if there was much audio in this Clorox Spanish ad. There were Spanish words, though, during the ad.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Zero ads with embedded player.





osu1991 said:


> Thanks I just noticed that tonight. I launched it from the web browser instead of the desktop shortcut and there were no ads. Usually I have my laptop connected to the tv and use the old windows store app which I prefer over the web browser, or I use the Fire TV app. I may use the HTPC some now though.


Weird. I think I'm using the embedded player. I'm not using an app, because the desktop app doesn't support the Slingbox 500. I tried that once, and that's what it said.

I just go to the browser (Internet Explorer seems to be the only one that works right now, although Firefox worked the very first time I tried it).

And then it says connecting to Slingbox. I'll try to take a screen shot of the ad I'm talking about, as well as the player, so we can see if there's any misunderstanding on my part.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

No need for screenshots. I'm very familiar with all the players. If you see ads, you aren't using the embedded player. This is the embedded player:
slingplayer.slingbox.com/embedded/slingplayer.php


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> No need for screenshots. I'm very familiar with all the players. If you see ads, you aren't using the embedded player. This is the embedded player:
> slingplayer.slingbox.com/embedded/slingplayer.php


You're right, I wasn't using the embedded player.

I went to your link, and it looked a little different. It asks me to select my Slingbox each time.

So I've tried this a few times right now, and it works right away every time, with the HDMI connection. I don't have to change connections back and forth.

The quality looks a little better too, and so does the speed. I don't get that feeling that the framerate was a little slower or something.

FYI, I had been using newwatch.slingbox.com.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

So, today was my attempt to set up the Tivo Mini.

I set up the MoCA connection on the PremiereXL4. It said it was successful. But when I went to "view network status", it said the MoCA link was down.

I then called Tivo.

They said to do 2 things:

* Call my cable provider to verify if I had an existing MoCA connection.
* Change my splitters. They didn't like how my splitters were 1002 MHz. They recommended at least 1600 Hz.

I have a spare splitter that is 2050 Mhz.

I then called my cable provider.

* They verified that I didn't have an existing MoCA connection.

They didn't like how my signal strength was 86 - 88%.

They wanted a signal strength of at least 95%.

They said I could try changing the splitter in the living room first. If that didn't work, then the one outside.

They also didn't believe I had a PoE filter. I told them I had one installed by the representative 3 weeks ago. He just didn't note it. I guess because he was there for 7 mins. He saved me on the service charge.

I guess I'll try changing my downstairs splitter right now.

Then even if it still says the MoCA connection is down, I want to try connecting the Mini anyways, to see what happens.

This installation is not fun. It's taking a lot longer than I though.

Tivo also said I have to downgrade the Mini's firmware.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Changing splitters in the living room got it to 91 - 92%.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Tivo also said to check if my router is capable of MoCA.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I called my router manufacturer.

He didn't seem too sure about whether it was compatible with a MoCA network.

He put me on hold. After about 9 mins, he said I should have no problem with a MoCA network.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Since this is any entirely different subject, may want to start a new thread and start by providing us the relevant details of your coax and ethernet networks.

But to start, if your Mini is running Hydra, you will indeed have to downgrade it first. Since you can't connect to your network yet, you'll have to temporarily relocate it so you can plug directly into ethernet to do the downgrade. There are a couple of existing threads on how to downgrade.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I can go through the setup on the Mini, but I keep getting the message that Tivo Service is required.

It's able to "connect" and download info, so I think that means the MoCA connection is good.

I activated my Tivo Mini several hours ago.

Calling Tivo support again. Hopefully this has nothing to do with the MoCA connection.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Since this is any entirely different subject, may want to start a new thread and start by providing us the relevant details of your coax and ethernet networks.
> 
> But to start, if your Mini is running Hydra, you will indeed have to downgrade it first. Since you can't connect to your network yet, you'll have to temporarily relocate it so you can plug directly into ethernet to do the downgrade. There are a couple of existing threads on how to downgrade.


Let me try downgrading before calling Tivo support.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Last time I "activated" a Mini, it didn't actually kick in for at least 24 hours. There are threads on how to speed that up, but I don't remember the details.

When I tried to connect Tivos running different UI's (the old Encore and new Hydra), it didn't work very well, if at all. I assume your host Premiere isn't running Hydra. If I recall correctly, Hydra won't even run on Premiere.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I couldn't figure out how to downgrade, so I called Tivo Support.

After unplugging the Tivo Mini and plugging it back in, it finally went to the "Name this DVR" screen, then asked me to downgrade.

After 10 - 15 mins, it finished downgrading.

It then asked for the Guided setup.

It was then stuck on Tivo Service required. It kept going back to that, which is why I called in the first place.

Finally after repeating the guided set up 3 times, it asked me to Name this DVR.

It then asked me to downgrade again!

Tivo then put me on hold as they're checking why it's doing this.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Last time I "activated" a Mini, it didn't actually kick in for at least 24 hours. There are threads on how to speed that up, but I don't remember the details.
> 
> When I tried to connect Tivos running different UI's (the old Encore and new Hydra), it didn't work very well, if at all. I assume your host Premiere isn't running Hydra. If I recall correctly, Hydra won't even run on Premiere.


How do I know what exactly the Premiere is running?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

nuraman00 said:


> How do I know what exactly the Premiere is running?


When asked to choose a country, hit the remote's Info button.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok, after it tried to downgrade a 2nd time, it went to the guided set up.

Then it went to the Name This DVR again.

Then finally it said "congratulations".


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> When asked to choose a country, hit the remote's Info button.


Is there another way? My Tivo Mini just finished the set up a minute ago. I hope I never see that Choose A Country screen again.

I've already seen it at least 8 times today.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

nuraman00 said:


> Is there another way? My Tivo Mini just finished the set up a minute ago. I hope I never see that Choose A Country screen again.
> I've already seen it at least 8 times today.


Scroll down:
TE3:
Tivo Customer Support Community

TE4:
Tivo Customer Support Community


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

So, this day went differently than I thought.

It took me nearly 6 hours to route coax across my room using wall mount cable clips; and set up the Tivo Mini.

That included 4 calls to tech support (Tivo; cable provider; Asus; and one last 46 min call to Tivo).


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> Scroll down:
> TE3:
> Tivo Customer Support Community
> 
> ...


Thanks. I verified through the system info that it's TE3.

How does everyone know TE4 is called Hydra?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

And I still don't know why it says link down when I go to view network status, and view the MoCA details.

But I'm not going to worry about it.

If I experience any issues in the next few days, maybe I'll change the outside splitter too.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> It took me nearly 6 hours to route coax across my room using wall mount cable clips; and set up the Tivo Mini.


If I didn't have any coax or ethernet going to the Mini, I would have tried some other method like powerline ethernet or a gaming adapter before running any new cables.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> If I didn't have any coax or ethernet going to the Mini, I would have tried some other method like powerline ethernet or a gaming adapter before running any new cables.


Yeah, maybe I could have tried powerline ethernet.

It wasn't a new cable though. It's just that the cable outlet was on the opposite side of the room as the TV. I'm not sure why they put the outlet there. There's really only one way to put a bed and stuff in that room, so the outlet in the spot where it is doesn't make sense for a lot of reasons.

But basically I just routed the cable up the wall; across the top of my closet; then a little down toward the TV.

I also just wanted to finish setting up everything on Sunday, so I could be free from another project.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

When I had a similar situation, I just got a fish tape, cut a tiny slit in the carpet and snaked it under. If you're renting, such a hole will be invisible when you remove the cable when you move out. If you have no carpet, then just run flat ethernet cable along the baseboard. No need for coax.

Maybe next time.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> I set up the MoCA connection on the PremiereXL4. It said it was successful. But when I went to "view network status", it said the MoCA link was down.


The MoCa "link" *will* report as down, at least until the first MOCA client successfully connects.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> When I had a similar situation, I just got a fish tape, cut a tiny slit in the carpet and snaked it under. If you're renting, such a hole will be invisible when you remove the cable when you move out. If you have no carpet, then just run flat ethernet cable along the baseboard. No need for coax.
> 
> Maybe next time.


I have hardwood floors.

I'm not near the router. Hence there would be nothing else to connect the Ethernet cable to, unless I was using a powerline adapter.

Also, I couldn't run it along the baseboard, because the closet was in the way. Also, not only was the closet in the way, but also the door to outside the room. Hence I had to route it up and around the closet and bedroom door.

I'll take a picture later this week and post it, so you can see what other alternatives there after you've seen the layout. I like the suggestions.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> The MoCa "link" *will* report as down, at least until the first MOCA client successfully connects.


You are right! It says it's up now.

Between the two calls I had to Tivo yesterday, spanning 68 minutes, I wish one of them had explained that to me. I kept pointing out that I wasn't sure if the MoCA connection was really successful, because the MoCA link status kept saying it was down. They never addressed my concern, and just had me go to other parts of the network settings, to see if I had set up the MoCA correctly.

I did also tell them that when the Mini tried to connect, it was able to get the program info. But I said it still seemed weird that it said the link status was down.

(I might have stopped checking the link status after the first call, but before I tried turning on the Mini).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

The quality of the MoCA connection can be checked via the Network Status screen on the MoCA-connected Mini.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> I have hardwood floors.
> 
> I'm not near the router. Hence there would be nothing else to connect the Ethernet cable to, unless I was using a powerline adapter.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying. No need for pics. I can't think of a better way in that case.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> I see what you're saying. No need for pics. I can't think of a better way in that case.


I was going to post a pic anyways, when I had time, because I wanted input on something. I'll probably create a new thread for that.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> The quality of the MoCA connection can be checked via the Network Status screen on the MoCA-connected Mini.


How do you see the quality? Or what field do you look at?

Are you talking about the MoCA link status?

If so, thanks.

I couldn't use this though when I was trying to set up the Tivo Mini though, because at that time, I was having trouble getting past the Getting Connection Info screen. It just kept looping back to the Guided Setup, or it would say the Tivo wasn't activated yet.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> How do you see the quality? Or what field do you look at?


See >this post<.

Document # of nodes, channel, TX/RX PHY rates and power estimates.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I see with a Slingbox, there can only be 1 user.
> 
> So someone couldn't be watching TV downstairs, and also upstairs.
> 
> ...


No, it does not cast from the phone. It instructs your Roku to make it direct connection to the Slingbox via the internet connection with the Roku, something like using a URL to connect-- your phone does not cast the video. However your phone does become the remote control for the Slingbox on Roku. the video you see through your Roku is the Roku connecting to the Slingbox using the Roku internet connection, not your phone.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> How easy is it to use my mobile device to navigate in time? Do they have options to skip ahead 30 seconds or something? Or do I have to use my finger to pinpoint exactly when to stop? That's annoying to me, as when I let my finger go, it still jumps forward or backward 1 - 2 minutes.
> 
> I'm asking for both playing a recording, or live TV.
> 
> ...


Yes there are options to skip ahead and Skip back and pause all trick play including fast forward rewind there should be everything you can do from your TiVo remote you can also do with Slingbox on mobile device. if you watch the sling on a PC then you are presented with an image that is exactly like the TiVo remote and then you press those buttons on the virtual remote. using a Remote device just take a little bit of getting used to as far as the menus and where the commands are located once you get the hang of it it's not difficult. keep in mind that takes a little bit of time for the command to go through the internet to the Slingbox your DVR or mini responding and then the result being sent back through the internet. I would say the Slingbox does not really allow for robust channel surfing, however most people don't use it for that they use it to either watch live programming at length or playback and recording at length, but I don't do channel surfing even at home.

Correct, if I were to use a TV in another room a lot and want full easy functionality then I would get a mini. However, I do use the Slingbox in rooms right don't watch TV very often and I just want to watch Idol live TV or play back of a recording without channel surfing for that it's a great option to paying a lot more for an extra Mini.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I'm assuming that if I use a laptop/PC to Sling content, it's much easier to navigate in time? Are there easy options to navigate backwards or forwards?


 it's very it's very easy Once you know where those buttons are. I believe on the mobile devices when you touch the screen at the bottom are the commands to skip forward skip backward play pause record it's easily accessible and should be easy to do. keeping in mind the time it takes to send the command through the internet and for the result of that command to be seen by you on the other end if I wanted to skip back 10 seconds I often press the skip back button twice then I'm where I should be taking in consideration the time for the command to travel.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> Ok, if I go to 2:19, I see there's time navigation to skip behind and ahead. Good.
> 
> I don't know why the skip ahead is grayed out in this instance, but at least it's possible.
> 
> ...


 yes that's the whole point of the Slingbox experience. using the PC or the mobile remote what you do is the very same thing you would do if you were in front of the TiVo press the fast-forward button then press the skip forward button that's using the so-called TiVo hash marks.

the Slingbox allows you to control your TiVo just as if you were sitting in front the Slingbox allows you to control your TiVo just as if you were sitting in front of that TiVo at home it can do all the same things that you can also do at home. so the Slingbox experience is you're sitting at a remote location and you use that very same command see what if you were at home controlling the TiVo with a very same command and what you see on screen is what's coming out of the TiVo so yes you can do all the same things with your TiVo it shuts us if you're at home.

what are you what are you doing with a Slingbox solo? did you already own that particular Slingbox? I thought it made it clear my post to avoid those old Legacy Slingboxes because they are somewhat deprecated at this point the only slingboxes that won't be giving you any problems or limitations are the Slingbox 500 or the M2. any of the older boxes and you will likely encounter some problems or limitations at some point possibly being in able to play it using the Slingbox player for PC or Mac.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> As per @Series3Sub (from another thread), I'd be using the powered HDMI splitter to get around the copy protections when transmitting via HDMI.
> 
> He recommended I use the HDMI from the Tivo/Tivo Mini, to the input of the splitter. Then one output of the splitter to the Slingbox HDMI Input.
> 
> ...


Unless you can prove it I never said to use the second output from the splitter from the TV what I did say perhaps in another thread is that you use the output of the Slingbox to then connect to the television you're going to need to do this because for the Slingbox 500 it has a simple on-screen setup process and if you don't have the output of the Slingbox connected to the television you won't see it, further this does not at all interfere with anything you always want to go from out of the Slingbox to the television. Just leave the second output from the splitter unconnected. The point was to circumvent the hdcp, not to provide two outputs from the splitter so just leave that one out the from the splitter I'm connected to anything.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I installed and set up the Slingbox.
> 
> I connected both component and HDMI, but set the source to HDMI. I set up the powered HDMI splitter.
> 
> ...


 well I don't know well I don't know what that line is you're talking about. Did you get your Slingbox 500 new or used and from a reputable source. I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread of May been in another but keep in mind that the HDMI connection at first can be a little quirky but it took me all of 30 seconds to work out the quirkiness. act right I fooled around with it a bit I have perfect picture come through HDMI and perfect component pictures at both of my sling boxes each connected to two different sources with excellent results.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I can't get the Slingbox to work in Firefox anymore. It worked once.
> 
> I've never gotten it working in Chrome.
> 
> ...


Actually the playback of the Slingbox video uses a separate Slingbox player for PC or Mac therefore it is not dependent upon the browser for viewing which was the case in earlier versions. the internet is moving away from add-ons especially from media, so Slingbox dumped the add ons through browsers to view Slingbox video and instead requires the use of the Slingbox player to view your Slingbox content. however in regards to a PC or Mac yes you'll have to use a browser to essentially sign in or initiate the process that will then wake up the Slingbox and automatically load on top of the browser the Slingbox player.

it's hard for me to it's hard for me to troubleshoot the problems you're having because I can't see it in and I'm not there myself, but be careful, especially in Firefox that you don't have any thing like you direct origin or other add-ons that it is designed to keep out third parties because that may prevent the sign on or the initiation to begin the connection.

some time ago for me I found some time ago for me I found that Firefox most likely due to my extensions, but not properly sign me in so I switched the Chrome and Chrome it always sign me in with no problems because the security extensions on Chrome seem to allow proper sign on and initiation. however with recent updates I'm able to sign into sling box using either Firefox or Chrome and they will properly initiate and launch the sling player on my PC.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I wonder if the issue is with the handshake, as described here (#30). I tried disconnecting the HDMI powered splitter, and reconnecting it, but I still get audio most of the time.


Did you check when you purchase the HDMI splitter from reviews that this split it does indeed work for chicken bedding hdcp using a Slingbox. that's what I did and got those specific Splitters and they both work well.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> It finally worked again.
> 
> Basketball looked a tiny bit better this time (when the basketball was in motion).
> 
> I didn't see that slow line moving vertically upwards either.


 keep in mind that at first the Slingbox is going to sling keep in mind that at first the Slingbox is going to sling the video using minimum amounts of speed and bandwidth, however over several minutes if you have a fast enough connection it will look better and better and better and could look at top-level HD about eight megabits per second after some minutes.

Also on the PC and the mobile devices and the Fire TV and Roku you still have the option to manually select the quality of the video. the Slingbox uses the AUTO setting as default for video quality meaning in a figure out the best picture quality dependent upon your internet speed. however if you know you have fast internet plenty of bandwidth and speed you can manually select the video quality to be best or HD right away and then the Slingbox will quickly increase the picture quality as per your selection.

as I said before as I said before in the auto picture quality setting at first the video being stream might not look great but if you allow it several minutes for it to slowly increase the quality of picture relative to how much internet speed you have it'll start to look very good. the Slingbox in the auto setting is designed to start out somewhat minimally with picture quality and then slowly increase it so it won't overwhelm your bandwidth and then failed to send video, but again if you know you've got really fast Upstream from where the sling boxes and really fast Downstream from where you watching it then you can immediately manually select the best or HD highest video quality setting and the Slingbox will do so. one quirk is that if I select the HD picture quality setting which I believe is the highest, it will display on my Fire TV connection that my bandwidth is a big enough for that, but it is so I just killed a message and choose to select the option forward Slingbox not to send me that connection anymore because it works perfectly fine for me at the highest picture quality level.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

mdavej said:


> Unlike others, I think the splitter is a bad idea, as I said before. Component works great for me. Also, you need to lower your expectations. Slingbox is never going to look great. It should look good, but won't ever exactly match the source. I use the "embedded" player on web browsers and never see any ads, and it works every time. Lastly, I've never actually tried to use Slingbox on my own LAN, so I'm not sure what to expect there.


I respectfully disagree, my experience is that Slingbox looks absolutely great given one has fast enough Upstream speed and enough Downstream speed. and it looks even better on a 4K TV. you may have a different experience, but the general statement that it doesn't look great and it never will is simply not true. my experience with Slingbox for quite a long time has been very high expectations because it does meet that given that set up properly and is enough speed provided were talking about the Slingbox 500 or the M1 M2 because I can't speak to the experience with those old Legacy Slingbox is that Slingbox frankly is simply not supporting anymore.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

well well Opie, it sounds like you have your Slingbox properly so I'll sign off from here. I hope the mocha TiVo and Slingbox and everything comes together for you best of luck


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Series3Sub said:


> I respectfully disagree, my experience is that Slingbox looks absolutely great given one has fast enough Upstream speed and enough Downstream speed.


Point taken. In my own experience, I've never seen it quite equal the source even on my own LAN with plenty of bandwidth. There is always a tiny bit of tearing on pans and scene changes. I've never watched a baseball game on it, but I assume the tearing I see on scene changes would be similar with a ball whizzing across the screen in a quarter of a second. So the best I've seen is very good, but not great. Good to hear that perfection is possible at least with the optimal setup.

It could be the device I'm slinging to that's holding me back, which is the embedded web client in Chrome on a very old Win 7 laptop most of the time. What do you typically watch on?


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

mdavej said:


> Point taken. In my own experience, I've never seen it quite equal the source even on my own LAN with plenty of bandwidth. There is always a tiny bit of tearing on pans and scene changes. I've never watched a baseball game on it, but I assume the tearing I see on scene changes would be similar with a ball whizzing across the screen in a quarter of a second. So the best I've seen is very good, but not great. Good to hear that perfection is possible at least with the optimal setup.
> 
> It could be the device I'm slinging to that's holding me back, which is the embedded web client in Chrome on a very old Win 7 laptop most of the time. What do you typically watch on?


Interesting, because yes I have excellent picture quality and never never experienced the tearing. I have a very sharp eye and sometimes I can tell that I'm watching the Slingbox only because it doesn't quite pop out as much is when I'm watching from the source or it's clear that I'm not getting 60 frames per second, but a gorgeous picture otherwise. And when I have slinged with only 3 megabits per second up to my aunt's home several miles away on her 4K TV the PQ was shockingly fantastic. It must have been enough data for her 4K upscaling to do its magic and it looked very close to the source .

But I wonder if in your case of less than great picture quality if it's the quality of your network possibly the router itself. A lot of routers especially lower to mid priced ones or those older routers simply can't handle the traffic and start overheating or they lack sufficient buffer and start spitting out Half Baked packets of data, and they are easily overworked with a relatively light load with today's demands and can get really hot. I had an older, less capable, more simple under the hood router, and it seemed to perform well enough until I have more devices and started seeing some pretty poor results regarding video on my LAN. I noticed some less than great picture quality at times when using my Slingbox or even the TiVo app on Fire TV during the time I was using my older less expensive router. I then did a very tiny upgrade and paid just a little bit more for a more capable router but I was still getting mixed results on my LAN with Slingbox, TiVo app on Fire TV, and some of the other streams.

Well, we were going to have a live in guest for a while who was really going to need a a good LAN, and I had doubts about my router handling all the traffic well. So I went ahead and splurged on the Asus RT88U, if I recall the model correctly, but it was quite expensive. This class of router can handle several of my TiVo streams on my DVR and Mini's, multiple streams to tablets or other mobile devices such as phones, slinging out of home to family who want to watch content that I have that they couldn't get, downloads to the dish DVR, and superb picture quality using the Slingbox on my big fat 55in TV, and it doesn't get too hot either. All my other problems were solved, and I always got great high quality pictures on all my streams including Slingbox and the old TiVo app on firetv, although the old TiVo app on firetv had a quirk that sometimes it would not stream in high-quality but it wasn't my network it was the stupid app because I discovered a workaround to that particular quirk, but never any problems with any of the other devices. I never have to think about my router, and I'm never reminded I have a router whenever I stream and watch stuff. Everything just works with high-quality picture.

I don't know your network, maybe it's great, but I'm just thinking that maybe the poor quality you're experiencing on the Slingbox maybe just be your network, or more specifically the router. One of the reasons TiVo keeps telling people to use MoCA rather than the home network is because most people have rotten home networks that will give poor or inconsistent results using tivo's and client Mini's.

Anyway, I really do believe that one of the reasons I'm getting outstanding picture quality with Slingbox on My LAN is because of the router and that also affects the quality coming out of the house Upstream to the remote viewing place, as well. in short I get really great picture quality from every device on the LAN and it is in great part to the router and to a some degree that my LAN is all gigabit, so there's plenty of Headroom.

Also, are you also are you using the Slingbox 500 or the M1 or M2. I believe those models do you perform the best or at least they have the best specs. I've read postings that the Legacy models seem to occasionally suffer for what your experiencing, but not the latest models. well I hope you managed to get better picture quality out of your Slingbox.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Appreciate the advice. My 350 gives me a very good picture which I'm quite happy with. It's just not exactly the same as the source. My network performance is solid, and stream is pegged at Best quality on my LAN. I notice the slight judder/tearing only for a split second on scene changes or pans. Not a big deal. I only use my Sling when in foreign countries, which is only occasionally. But when I do travel it's usually for long periods, a few months at a time. If I'm in the US, I don't need to sling as I can get most everything on demand or with the Tivo app.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> No, it does not cast from the phone. It instructs your Roku to make it direct connection to the Slingbox via the internet connection with the Roku, something like using a URL to connect-- your phone does not cast the video. However your phone does become the remote control for the Slingbox on Roku. the video you see through your Roku is the Roku connecting to the Slingbox using the Roku internet connection, not your phone.


Oh, thanks for the clarification. I thought it casted it from the phone, because of this icon in the upper right, with the square and curves, that's usually associated with casting. When I was on a remote network, it said the options were to play on my phone, or a Roku. (Ignore the options that are in the picture right now, as that's from my home network).

https://i.imgur.com/zabVkbb.png

Why couldn't the SlingPlayer for Roku, behave more like the phone one, where I could just launch the player directly from the Roku, and log into my account? And then use the Roku remote as the control?

Why have the phone get in the middle and instruct the Roku to make the connection?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> Correct, if I were to use a TV in another room a lot and want full easy functionality then I would get a mini. However, I do use the Slingbox in rooms right don't watch TV very often and I just want to watch Idol live TV or play back of a recording* without channel surfing for that it's a great option to paying a lot more for an extra Mini.*


Probably because it's now discontinued, but the price of the Slingbox has gone up since when you probably purchased it.

I paid $330 for a new Slingbox 500.

There's a new Slingbox M2 on eBay for $107 after shipping. I had wanted the 500 model though, even though I think the only major difference is that the 500 has HDMI whereas the M2 is component only.

How much did you purchase yours for, and what model?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> Unless you can prove it I never said to use the second output from the splitter from the TV what I did say perhaps in another thread is that you use the output of the Slingbox to then connect to the television you're going to need to do this because for the Slingbox 500 it has a simple on-screen setup process and if you don't have the output of the Slingbox connected to the television you won't see it, further this does not at all interfere with anything you always want to go from out of the Slingbox to the television. Just leave the second output from the splitter unconnected. The point was to circumvent the hdcp, not to provide two outputs from the splitter so just leave that one out the from the splitter I'm connected to anything.


Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I ended up doing, connecting the output of the Slingbox to the TV. And the 2nd output of the splitter is unconnected.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> well I don't know well I don't know what that line is you're talking about. *Did you get your Slingbox 500 new or used and from a reputable source.* I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread of May been in another but keep in mind that the HDMI connection at first can be a little quirky but it took me all of 30 seconds to work out the quirkiness. act right I fooled around with it a bit I have perfect picture come through HDMI and perfect component pictures at both of my sling boxes each connected to two different sources with excellent results.


I ended up getting a new Slingbox 500 from an Amazon.com seller.



Series3Sub said:


> Actually the playback of the Slingbox video uses a separate Slingbox player for PC or Mac therefore it is not dependent upon the browser for viewing which was the case in earlier versions. the internet is moving away from add-ons especially from media, so Slingbox dumped the add ons through browsers to view Slingbox video and instead requires the use of the Slingbox player to view your Slingbox content. however in regards to a PC or Mac yes you'll have to use a browser to essentially sign in or initiate the process that will then wake up the Slingbox and automatically load on top of the browser the Slingbox player.
> 
> it's hard for me to it's hard for me to troubleshoot the problems you're having because I can't see it in and I'm not there myself, but be careful, especially in Firefox that you don't have any thing like you direct origin or other add-ons that it is designed to keep out third parties because that may prevent the sign on or the initiation to begin the connection.
> 
> some time ago for me I found some time ago for me I found that Firefox most likely due to my extensions, but not properly sign me in so I switched the Chrome and Chrome it always sign me in with no problems because the security extensions on Chrome seem to allow proper sign on and initiation. however with recent updates I'm able to sign into sling box using either Firefox or Chrome and they will properly initiate and launch the sling player on my PC.


@mdavej helped me figure out the playback issues, on the PC.

I had been using this player (which was recommended during the setup):

Slingbox - Country Selector

This player sucks. There's a 15 second advertisement every time I launch it. I kept seeing the same Clorox ad, in Spanish for some reason.

And the HDMI connection rarely works. I have to switch the source to component, then HDMI, to see video + audio. (Or use component directly).

This player below is good:

Slingbox Player

No ads.

HDMI works right away.

Actually, I just noticed one issue RIGHT NOW. If I'm using the embedded player, the rewind 7 seconds / skip ahead 30 seconds button doesn't work. I see the message on the screen after I push the button, but it doesn't perform the action. I also don't hear the Tivo button sounds that correspond with pushing those buttons.

If I use the player on my phone, or that "Newwatch" Sling player, then the buttons work. And I also hear the Tivo button sounds.

Any idea why, @mdavej? Do those buttons work for you on the embedded player? Is there any configuration I can do, for the embedded player?

I might call Slingbox tomorrow to see if they can help.



Series3Sub said:


> Did you check when you purchase the HDMI splitter from reviews that this split it does indeed work for chicken bedding hdcp using a Slingbox. that's what I did and got those specific Splitters and they both work well.





Series3Sub said:


> keep in mind that at first the Slingbox is going to sling keep in mind that at first the Slingbox is going to sling the video using minimum amounts of speed and bandwidth, however over several minutes if you have a fast enough connection it will look better and better and better and could look at top-level HD about eight megabits per second after some minutes.
> 
> *Also on the PC and the mobile devices and the Fire TV and Roku you still have the option to manually select the quality of the video.* the Slingbox uses the AUTO setting as default for video quality meaning in a figure out the best picture quality dependent upon your internet speed. however if you know you have fast internet plenty of bandwidth and speed you can manually select the video quality to be best or HD right away and then the Slingbox will quickly increase the picture quality as per your selection.
> 
> as I said before as I said before in the auto picture quality setting at first the video being stream might not look great but if you allow it several minutes for it to slowly increase the quality of picture relative to how much internet speed you have it'll start to look very good. the Slingbox in the auto setting is designed to start out somewhat minimally with picture quality and then slowly increase it so it won't overwhelm your bandwidth and then failed to send video, but again if you know you've got really fast Upstream from where the sling boxes and really fast Downstream from where you watching it then you can immediately manually select the best or HD highest video quality setting and the Slingbox will do so. one quirk is that if I select the HD picture quality setting which I believe is the highest, it will display on my Fire TV connection that my bandwidth is a big enough for that, but it is so I just killed a message and choose to select the option forward Slingbox not to send me that connection anymore because it works perfectly fine for me at the highest picture quality level.


Thanks for the tip. Now when I launch the player, I check to see which quality is selected. If it's less than what I like, I manually set it to the best.

How do I set the video quality on a Roku player? Do I set it from my phone first, before switching to show it on the Roku?



Series3Sub said:


> I respectfully disagree, my experience is that Slingbox looks absolutely great given one has fast enough Upstream speed and enough Downstream speed. and it looks even better on a 4K TV. you may have a different experience, but the general statement that it doesn't look great and it never will is simply not true. my experience with Slingbox for quite a long time has been very high expectations because it does meet that given that set up properly and is enough speed provided were talking about the Slingbox 500 or the M1 M2 because I can't speak to the experience with those old Legacy Slingbox is that Slingbox frankly is simply not supporting anymore.





Series3Sub said:


> *well well Opie, it sounds like you have your Slingbox properly so I'll sign off from here. *I hope the mocha TiVo and Slingbox and everything comes together for you best of luck


Thanks for checking the thread and responding.

Yeah, once I switched to the embedded player, it worked well on my home network. It worked with the HDMI right away.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

So, I used the SlingPlayer with the Roku last week, when I was remote.

Here's my experience:

* Overall, it worked well, and easily. Very little buffering issues. It would maybe need to buffer for 1/2 a second every 20 mins or so. That's very reasonable.

* Also, the response time from hitting a button on my phone, and seeing the corresponding action on the TV, was about 1.5 - 2 seconds. Not bad. Definitely usable.

However, if I wanted more granular time navigation control, then I can't really do that. If I want to fast forward, even if I hit fast forward then play right away, I have to accept that it will go ahead at least 1 - 2 mins, if not 3, by the time it plays at normal speed again. That's ok.

I figured out how to reasonably fast forward through commercials, and have it stop at the beginning of the next segment, within some margin of error.

* The one usability feature that seemed to be missing, was that the controls on my phone weren't the full Tivo remote. So if I was fast forwarding for a long period of time, the Tivo time navigation bar would stay on the screen. There wasn't a "clear" button I could hit, like I could on the Tivo remote, so that it would keep fast forwarding, but without the time navigation bar blocking the bottom portion of the screen.

This was an issue because the time navigation bar blocked the scoreboard of the MLB game I was watching. If the game is looking like a blowout, I fast forward until the score looks closer, or there is an important moment in the game. I couldn't determine when to stop fast forwarding because this channel kept their scoreboard on the bottom, right where the Tivo time navigation was. Some channels keep their scoreboard at the top, some keep it at the bottom.

So the lack of a "clear" button, like on the Tivo remote, seemed to be the one feature missing, when using my phone for controls.

* The overall quality was pretty good, when watching on the Roku. However, it didn't appear to be the same HD as it would when using a PC player. Even when playing directly on my phone, looked better.

It wasn't bad, as for the most part, it was fine. And I still enjoyed the experience. But there were a few times when I could tell the quality was reduced.

The quality didn't improve over time, it stayed the same as it was once I launched it.

The color of the grass also looked a bit off, as if it the color was compressed.

@Series3Sub said it's possible to manually select the quality, when playing on a Roku? I'll have to try that next time and see if I can select the best. What options does it say? Does it say a specific resolution? Or does it say things like "HQ" and "SQ"? (high quality, standard quality)?

Again, overall, it was a good few days. I could watch for hours, and no major issues. Just a minor one with the lack of a "clear" button. But if there's a way to improve the quality even more, then I want to try it. Otherwise it's ok.

I am satisfied with this solution, and am glad I made the purchase.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Point taken. In my own experience, *I've never seen it quite equal the source even on my own LAN with plenty of bandwidth. There is always a tiny bit of tearing on pans and scene changes. I've never watched a baseball game on it, but I assume the tearing I see on scene changes would be similar with a ball whizzing across the screen in a quarter of a second.* So the best I've seen is very good, but not great. Good to hear that perfection is possible at least with the optimal setup.
> 
> It could be the device I'm slinging to that's holding me back, which is the embedded web client in Chrome on a very old Win 7 laptop most of the time. What do you typically watch on?


So far, I think the quality is the same when on my own LAN. But if you read my post above, it's not quite the same when remote and watching on someone's Roku. When a baseball is hit, then it's as you described.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> Well, we were going to have a live in guest for a while who was really going to need a a good LAN, and I had doubts about my router handling all the traffic well. So I went ahead and splurged on the Asus RT88U, if I recall the model correctly, but it was quite expensive.


I just got a new router this June, the Asus RT86U. Very similar model.

So far, I'm happy with the results on all of my devices, whether connected via hardwire, Blue Tooth, or Wi Fi.

Maybe that's why the Slingbox 500 also looked good on my home network, when I was testing it.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

nuraman00 said:


> @mdavej helped me figure out the playback issues, on the PC.
> 
> I had been using this player (which was recommended during the setup):
> 
> ...


Bump @mdavej.

Do the rewind 7 seconds / skip ahead buttons work for you, on the embedded player?

I just got off a support call with Slingbox.

First they logged into my account and tried those buttons on an iPad. It worked.

Then they tried it on the New Watch Sling Player. The buttons worked.

I asked if they could try it on the embedded player. The support person said that he couldn't, because the only player he recommends is the New Watch player.

He said "I don't know what that player is" of the embedded player.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Yes, all the buttons work. Perhaps you picked the wrong remote. Mine looks exactly like a TiVo remote. 

Of course Sling wants you to use the New player so they get the ad revenue. 

Please don’t press the matter with support. If they become aware embedded still exists, it might get shut down.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Yes, all the buttons work. Perhaps you picked the wrong remote. Mine looks exactly like a TiVo remote.
> 
> Of course Sling wants you to use the New player so they get the ad revenue.
> 
> Please don't press the matter with support. If they become aware embedded still exists, it might get shut down.


Thanks.

Yeah, mine also looks like a Tivo remote. When I use their new player, the same remote comes up and the buttons work.

When I use the embedded player, the remote comes up but those two buttons don't work.

Sure, I won't contact Slingbox tech support about the embedded player anymore.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

In regards to not having buttons on the virtual remote:

1. As an earlier poster mentioned, it could be that you may have picked the TiVo virtual remote that does not match your model.

2. Keep in mind that often the entire virtual remote is not displayed, which means that buttons may appear to be missing, but they're just outside of the display. You can move the virtual remote up or down in the screen to access the buttons that are not visible. You can also move the remote left and right anywhere on the screen according to your preference. You can also, using 2 fingers, increase the size of the remote or decrease the size of the remote on the display. So, perhaps the clear button is there but it's off the display. Try resizing or moving the remote around so that you can see the entire remote.

The way to move the remote is to use one finger placed on the virtual remote leaving it on the virtual remote--BUT NOT ON ANY BUTTONS; ONLY THE PORTIONS OF THE VIRTUAL REMOTE THAT HAS NO BUTTONS--until you see a visual change indicating that you can now drag that remote anywhere you want up, down, left, right on the display. Again to increase or decrease the size of the remote, use two fingers and bring them close together or further apart just as you would other images on any mobile device.

I hope that solves your problem for not having the clear button or other buttons visible and available because the virtual remotes on the Slingbox are exactly like the hardware remotes her specific model. They are absolutely identical in appearance and function as far as the specific device it is controlling.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Also to attempt to answer the OP question as to why Slingbox does not have an app for Roku as it does for the Fire TV:

There is a pretty fair cost for a company to develop an app. The Big Three operating systems for which some companies need to develop an app is Apple's iOS, Android, and the Roku OS. The fewer apps that need to be developed the better and less expensive the ongoing cost to maintain those apps. There are some companies that have chosen to focus on iOS and Android apps and not Roku OS in order to cut costs, and Sling Media and Dish are among those companies. The Fire TV uses a forked version of Android, so there isn't much additional cost if any to develop apps that will work for both Fire TV and Android devices.

So this means that as far as connected devices it is Fire TV that gets a proper app for the Slingbox and Dish Anywhere. Android mobile devices also get a proper Slingbox and Dish Anywhere app, and iOS gets a proper Slingbox and Dish Anywhere app. Apple has a fair number of mobile devices in the hands of consumers that warrant the expense of developing an app for iOS, and Android is used by countless Brands and companies as the OS running its mobile devices, so it makes perfect sense to spend the money to develop apps for Android. However because Roku OS is the odd bird, that's where some companies choose to cut their cost because Roku OS is only functional on the Roku connected device (or those not terribly popular "Roku TV" or Roku built-in TV's), but not any mobile devices I know of.

So, instead of developing an expensive app for the odd bird Roku OS, some companies, like Sling media, develop a sort of work around that requires you to use your mobile device to initiate and communicate with the Roku. It is not as elegant a solution as the full apps for Fire TV and iOS and Android mobile devices, but it gets the job done with the compromise of having to use your mobile device as a remote. Yes, the Fire TV app for Slingbox allows you to use the Fire TV remote for all functions and is easier and better experience in my opinion (all you have to do is select the app and it automatically loads and connects to the Slingbox all by itself), but it does not use a virtual remote that looks just like the TiVo hand remote. Instead, it uses the SlingPlayer on-screen menus and options using the Fire TV remote to navigate through it, and that does take a little getting used to, but once you get used to it it turns out okay.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> I just got a new router this June, the Asus RT86U. Very similar model.
> 
> So far, I'm happy with the results on all of my devices, whether connected via hardwire, Blue Tooth, or Wi Fi.
> 
> Maybe that's why the Slingbox 500 also looked good on my home network, when I was testing it.


Oh yes, I have no doubt that is why your Slingbox looks as good as it does. I was having problems with Slingbox picture quality with my previous routers that were old not up to snuff to modern demands, etc. it isn't just the capability of the modern chips but also the greater amount of memory in the modern routers. when I finally switched to a modern very capable router, not only did my Slingbox PQ greatly improve to the point of highly impressive, but all other manner of other problems I was experiencing disappeared.

After all, I believe the reason TiVo officially keeps pushing MoCA to be used in regards to networking TiVo devices, is the very fact that TiVo knows that most people have terrible home networks with old, inadequate routers and awful WiFi, especially for the demands of networking multiple TiVo HD streams using, perhaps, not the most efficient codecs. With my current high-end router, I have all my Tivo's and Minis networked, along with the connected devices like Fire TV's, computers, and simultaneous HD video downloads or HD streams from Dish all using hard wired with gigabit switches with the gigabit router. All this and more happens with no hiccups. but you and I and a few others are still in the minority because the vast majority of people out there have absolutely abysmal home networks, and TiVo knows that.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> Probably because it's now discontinued, but the price of the Slingbox has gone up since when you probably purchased it.
> 
> I paid $330 for a new Slingbox 500.
> 
> ...


I believe the original MSRP for the Slingbox 500 was $300, so an increase of $30 isn't bad at all considering that all Slingbox devices are no longer being manufactured. I believe I paid just a little under $300 (like $290?) at Amazon for one Slingbox 500 and the full $299 for my second Slingbox 500. I can't recall either the Slingbox 500 nor the M2 ever being sold at much of a discount. Even well before the end of manufacturing the slingboxes, I had seen some Slingbox 500's overpriced beyond MSRP especially on fleaBay, but both SOLD BY Amazon (I recall a 3rd party seller on Amazon asking MORE than MSRP) and the official Slingbox site were selling those boxes at MSRP, at least all the times I frequently checked their prices. of course, the M2 was less expensive than the SB500, but I forget by how much, but I seem to recall the M2 was significantly less then the SB500. The M2 had analog inputs only, no HDMI, and could only support one device and required set up through a PC on the internet. The 500 had composite, component, and HDMI inputs and allowed switching between two different devices using the very same Sling 500 box while also allowing the easier and more intuitive on-screen setup built into the sling 500 using the TV connected to the Slingbox 500. While not required for Slinging to work, all Slingboxes allow for pass-through of the video signal to allow viewing on the TV at all times.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> In regards to not having buttons on the virtual remote:
> 
> 1. As an earlier poster mentioned, it could be that you may have picked the TiVo virtual remote that does not match your model.
> 
> ...


Am I supposed to see the full virtual remote, even on the Sling player for an Android phone?

Because what I see instead are a horizontal row of buttons, and that's it.

I see something like this, not a full remote.










I do see the full remote when I use the Sling web players.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok, I figured out how to get the clear button on the Android app. I tap on the picture of the remote, then go to the "All" tab, where it will display more buttons in addition to the time navigation ones shown above (in the previous post).

Then one of the additional buttons is the clear one.

Good to know, this will help.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> I believe the original MSRP for the Slingbox 500 was $300, so an increase of $30 isn't bad at all considering that all Slingbox devices are no longer being manufactured. I believe I paid just a little under $300 (like $290?) at Amazon for one Slingbox 500 and the full $299 for my second Slingbox 500. I can't recall either the Slingbox 500 nor the M2 ever being sold at much of a discount. Even well before the end of manufacturing the slingboxes, I had seen some Slingbox 500's overpriced beyond MSRP especially on fleaBay, but both SOLD BY Amazon (I recall a 3rd party seller on Amazon asking MORE than MSRP) and the official Slingbox site were selling those boxes at MSRP, at least all the times I frequently checked their prices. of course, the M2 was less expensive than the SB500, but I forget by how much, but I seem to recall the M2 was significantly less then the SB500. The M2 had analog inputs only, no HDMI, and could only support one device and required set up through a PC on the internet. The 500 had composite, component, and HDMI inputs and allowed switching between two different devices using the very same Sling 500 box while also allowing the easier and more intuitive on-screen setup built into the sling 500 using the TV connected to the Slingbox 500. While not required for Slinging to work, all Slingboxes allow for pass-through of the video signal to allow viewing on the TV at all times.


Thanks. For some reason, I thought I read that the cost of the SLingbox 500 was under $100, when it was still being manufactured.

But if you paid about $300, then that's similar to what I paid.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Also, @Series3Sub, do you have any ideas as to why the skip behind 7 seconds, and skip ahead 30 seconds, work on the New Watch online web player, and work on the Android player, but not on the older embedded player, for me? They work for @mdavej.

This is the older embedded player:

Slingbox Player

The virtual remote looks like my Tivo remote, so I think I picked the right remote. And the fact that it works on the two other players (the New Watch online player, and the Android player), also confirms that I configured the right one.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Just wanted to provide an update.

Over Thanksgiving, I used the Slingbox again at the same host's house as in October.

The host had gotten a new modem from the ISP provider. I also changed the Slingbox settings to use best quality always, as opposed to Auto.

It might have been a combination of both the new modem, as well as the best always quality settings, but the quality looked even better.

So 2 times I've used Slingbox for out of home streaming, and I've been happy with its quality and performance.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

An update on my Slingbox.

I haven't had any issues in the past year.

However, last night, my Slingbox restarted 6 x in 1.5 hours. I checked to see what my support options are, and I'm literally 1 day over the warranty.

I'm going to call them anyways later today and see if they have any suggestions.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Although this is a belated post, I also had the very same problem at the same time as you did (September 2019) for about a week and it was driving me crazy. then after a week the problem mysteriously disappeared never to return. I have no idea what happened but it was real and I'm glad it only lasted about a week. Everything has been fine since then.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> Although this is a belated post, I also had the very same problem at the same time as you did (September 2019) for about a week and it was driving me crazy. then after a week the problem mysteriously disappeared never to return. I have no idea what happened but it was real and I'm glad it only lasted about a week. Everything has been fine since then.


I forgot to post how I resolved it.

I unplugged my Slingbox for 1 minute, then plugged it back in.

It didn't have any more issues with restarting after that.

1 week is a long time with this problem! When it happened 6x in 1.5 hours, it was pretty much impossible to watch any TV during that time. Because of the restarts. When it restarted, the DVR was unusable for those 2-4 minutes.

I had my HDMI cables set up so that my Tivo went to my Slingbox via the powered HDMI splitter, then the Slingbox to the TV.

I could have used the 2nd port on the splitter to output it to another HDMI port on my TV, but I didn't want to use two HDMI ports on my TV.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Also, one bit of sad news to report.

Sometime last year, a Roku stopped supporting the Slingbox app. When I try to launch it, I get a message saying that it's not supported anymore.



But it's not all bad. When I'm away remote at this place, I can still at least watch via a laptop or phone (I prefer laptop for the larger screen).

I am trying to post a link to the article, but this site keeps wanting to embed the link into a video.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Well I'm beginning to wonder if it was really a full week or more like 3 or 4 days, but it sure as heck felt like a week. yeah I tried all the known tricks like rebooting the Slingbox, disconnecting it, blah blah blah, and I think I even went through a full reconfiguration to fix it, and nothing worked. and then the problem vanished, thankfully.

however I am glad that you found however I am glad that you found the fix up disconnecting from Power which causes a reboot. that can clear up strange occasional glitches. I'll also add that while I can stream for several hours, sometimes after many hours of streaming the audio video will freeze but if I just choose "disconnect" command from from the Fire TV and then select "connect," the problem goes away and it continues to stream just fine. I suppose that is essentially a soft restart or refresh for the Slingbox, and I can always go back to view what I may have missed during the remote disconnect and reconnect commands at the Fire TV because the DVR continued to operate. I don't know if that's a glitch at the Slingbox or a glitch at the Fire TV Slingplayer app.

glad to glad to hear Slingbox is still working. Both of mine are still working after years of use.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> Also, one bit of sad news to report.
> 
> Sometime last year, a Roku stopped supporting the Slingbox app. When I try to launch it, I get a message saying that it's not supported anymore.
> 
> ...


Well then you can get an Amazon Fire TV whether it is the cheaper stick or the more capable larger fire TVs such as the cube. then download the SlingPlayer app onto your Fire TV. this is a great way to watch your sling content on a large HDTV. the SlingPlayer app for Fire TV does have the traditional SlingPlayer app menus Etc and it does take some time to get used to them but once you do you'll find it likely a superior experience.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> Well then you can get an Amazon Fire TV whether it is the cheaper stick or the more capable larger fire TVs such as the cube. then download the SlingPlayer app onto your Fire TV. this is a great way to watch your sling content on a large HDTV. the SlingPlayer app for Fire TV does have the traditional SlingPlayer app menus Etc and it does take some time to get used to them but once you do you'll find it likely a superior experience.


Thanks.

It's my sister's place though. That's where I stream from my Slingbox, as I've been spending an extended amount of time there the past few years, whenever I go there.

I can't get a Fire TV just for her TV. Well I guess I could, and just take it with me every time, but that's a little weird. Good to know there's an option though, as yes, the experience on the HDTV would be superior. Maybe at some point I'll come to this.

Maybe I can also just use a HDMI cable from the laptop to the TV. Oh no, but then I won't have any of the controls easily available, I'll have to be near the laptop.

The Fire TV, as you suggested, would work like it did with the Roku, where I can use my phone as the remote.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Well, the Fire TV Stick is exactly the sort of thing that is designed to plug into whatever display, watch, and then disconnect the Fire TV Stick and put it in your pocket, and walk away. Lots of Slingbox users LOVE the Fire TV Stick for just this purpose. Many other users take the Fire TV Stick with them whereever they go or when they travel, and they just plug it in and then watch whaever and then pull it out of the HDMI and then move on.

I encourage you to consider the Fire TV Stick (it is about the size of a USB thumb drive) for its portability and ease of plug into HDMI and pull out when done. Go to the Amazon website and read the reviews to be familiar with it. OH, and it is _*Cheap *_compared to the full size Fire TV or any other connected device for what it does.

Interesting that Roku is no longer supported because I sometimes use my aunt's Roku to connect to my Slingbox to watch. Now I probably gotta get a Fire Stick, too. 

Good Luck!


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Series3Sub said:


> Well, the Fire TV Stick is exactly the sort of thing that is designed to plug into whatever display, watch, and then disconnect the Fire TV Stick and put it in your pocket, and walk away. Lots of Slingbox users LOVE the Fire TV Stick for just this purpose. Many other users take the Fire TV Stick with them whereever they go or when they travel, and they just plug it in and then watch whaever and then pull it out of the HDMI and then move on.
> 
> I encourage you to consider the Fire TV Stick (it is about the size of a USB thumb drive) for its portability and ease of plug into HDMI and pull out when done. Go to the Amazon website and read the reviews to be familiar with it. OH, and it is _*Cheap *_compared to the full size Fire TV or any other connected device for what it does.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the lack of response. Your post has been on my mind for several months.

I am now considering a 4K Fire Stick for one more reason, than just having SlingPlayer.

I recently noticed an issue when playing a Google Play movie on my Sony 4K XBR-900e TV, which uses AndroidTV as the OS.

There was a lot of artifacting when playing 4K movies.

I rolled back the version of Google Play to the factory installed version, and 99% of the issue was resolved.

99% is not 100% though.

However, this lead to a suggestion from someone on another forum, that playback through a streaming device would be better than using the native Google Play app on the TV.

BTW, this is not my "main" TV, I use my Plasma TV most of the time. The upstairs 4K TV is more of a limited use TV, for now.

What do you think about this?

Would playback on a 4K Fire Stick be better than using the TV itself?

Is the 4x ARM Cortex-A53 @1.7GHz on a 4K Fire Stick better than the ARM Cortex-A53 @ 1.1 GHz on the Sony 900E TV (X1 Processor).

(Are the X1 Processor on the TV and the Cortex-A53 the same thing?)

Or, is it more about the software? Such as when I noticed that going back to an older version of Google Play worked better than the more updated version.

So is the version of an app like Google Play on a Fire Stick, better than an updated version on an AndroidTV?

On a completely separate topic, I noticed Google Play downscales 4K movies, when playing from the web.

It is not one of their supported devices for 4K:

Watch HD, 4K UHD & HDR videos with Google Play Movies & TV - Google Play Help

Movies Anywhere appears to have the same issue.

(I don't have an account with them yet, but am considering it).

I contacted Movies Anywhere, this was their response why:

++++++++

Thank you so much for getting back to us.

Unfortunately no. A web browser doesn't support 4K and you won't be able to stream a movie in 4K using your Movies Anywhere account. If you have a 4K movie you still can stream the movie but it won't be in 4K.

++++++++++

Why is the web browser such a limiting factor in 4K playback?

I would also like to be able to use a 4K Fire Stick with my computer, but that doesn't seem possible. Perhaps if I connected it directly into my computer monitor, but my monitor doesn't have built in speakers.

I'm just trying to get items that give me the most flexibility. So getting a Fire Stick for Sling Player is one way. If it also enhances playback on my 4K TV, then that would be a second way. And it would be good if I could also use that with my computer or monitor, but as far as I can tell, that doesn't seem possible.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> Sorry for the lack of response. Your post has been on my mind for several months.
> 
> I am now considering a 4K Fire Stick for one more reason, than just having SlingPlayer.
> 
> ...


OK, that is a lot of info. Allow me to get to the bottom of the superiority of a dedicated streaming device like a FireTV as opposed to any of the TV's: The TV's often do NOT update their apps, and often don't update API's and what you get is a DIMINSHED experience compared to a dedicated streamer (like FireTV or Roku), and eventually, the TV makers just give up and the app stops working or just pull the app.

The process is really complicated but, I believe it is the service such as Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. who build the app and maintain it, and only do so if streamers continue to pay and priority goes to the dedicated streamers like FireTV and Roku, while everybody else, including TiVo, Dish, and whoever else has thier app are lower on the list. Also, a dedicated streamer is designed for that ONE purpose and can excell in it and not have to provide any other features. A TV or TiVo DVR or Dish Hopper are what they are FIRST: A TV or a DVR for linear TV, while the apps they offer are NOT the primary feature they provide and, unfortunately, TV's, DVR's, etc. often don't get upgraded to be able to handle the latest versions of apps by Netflix or Amazon Prime, etc. This leads to all sorts of shortcommings when using TV's and DVR, etc. to view content using those apps.

Further, if one has a really ancient or slow Roku or FireTV, it costs very little--compared to a new TV or DVR that is otherwise functioning very well--to upgrade the Roku or FireTV and get the latesest and greatest offered by the latest version of the apps.

Considering the above, the better or weaker chip on the TV vs. a dedicated streamer is not going make any difference in the world when the TV maker choosed to stop PAYING to support the apps and the DVR maker simply can't upgrade what is necessary to keep the apps robust.

The short answer: *ALWAYS go with a dedicated streamer whenever possible.* OR while the NEW TV may have a great streaming app experience for now, you will have to get a dedicated streamer to view such content on the very same TV after some time when the app experience begins to go downhill, and this includes certain features of the APP itself. All the deidcated streamers have done very well with multiple updates with the streaming services apps over time with all sorts of better additions of features than any of the TV's or DVR's, and that is because those device do ONE thing, and Roku or Amazon can't NOT be able to update and provide the best experience in streaming or they would lose to each other's competition or people would not bother buying dedicated stremaers in the first place. This is why didicated streamers are so popular and the vast majority of people prefer the experience of a dedicated streamer to any other device when it comes to streaming content and have a dedicated streamer connected to a Smart TV instead of using the smart TV. Roku and Amazon are almost always gonna pay the money to the streamers, unlike most Smart TV's and DVR's, and TV manufactrures consdier a TV a few years old to be a LEGACY device that they resent paying streaming services to keep alive the apps on aging TV's, when TV makers can make money selling NEW TV's.

Long post. Sorry. Wrote more infor than I thought. I hope that helps, and remember: dedicated streamers can be CHEAP or get the highest end streamer. I always get the highest end (they aren't that expensive for better performance and speeed, etc.) and are fairly future proof, so you can have great experience over many years compared to the lowest end Roku, as one example. Of course the "stick" devices like the FireTV Stick are designed to be portable/mobile, so they are the best option if one needs portability like plugging into different TV's upon travels or temporary use. Otherwise, it one is going to have the streamer always connected to the one TV, I would go highest end streaming device and enjoy it.

I hope it all works out for you.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Thank you for the response. It helps put things in perspective.

Which one do you think is best?

I am looking for:

1) Supports SlingPlayer

2) Portability (so I can take it to a family member's and use the SlingPlayer)

3) Great performance (won't have playback issues like what I encountered with 4K Google Play content on my TV with Android TV.

I've read good things about Nvidia Shield, but it doesn't support SlingPlayer, so that's out. (It might be possible to side load it, but that has mixed results, and I don't want to do that).

So it seems like it's between FireStick 4K or AppleTV 4K.

4) I don't know if this exists, but is the user experience on these apps better?

One thing I get annoyed with when using these apps, is that when I pause something, the navigation controls come on the screen, and the screen content goes dim. For me, when I pause something, it's usually because I want to look at something in the scene. Having the navigation controls block the image hurts this. So does having the screen go dim, as I then can't look at the detail I'm trying to look at.

I like using my Tivo, because when I pause something, I get the full image, no dimming, no navigation controls in the way.

If one of these streamers has apps which mimics this behavior, that will get the edge from me.

It also appears navigating in time is app specific too. When I use HBO GO, I can rewind to the exact second. When I use Google Play Movies, I have to go back in 10 second increments. Again, I prefer having greater control, where I can go to the exact second.

On another note, this review doesn't like the AppleTV remote, because it has a touch pad. After reading about it, I would agree that I wouldn't like a touchpad.

Apple TV 4K vs. Nvidia Shield TV: Which Streaming Device Should You Buy? | Tom's Guide


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> Thank you for the response. It helps put things in perspective.
> 
> Which one do you think is best?
> 
> ...


Fire TV! Certainly the ONLY streamer with Slingbox App.

Outside of Slingbox app needs, for me, still Fire TV. However, Roku does have a lot more of those "crap apps" and those quirky oddball services that show really old stuff with very POOR quality or just bizarre niche apps with bizarre content. Fire TV's have all the big services I need/desire and it has Slingbox app and Dish Anywhere app, which I use both those apps. Fire TV now has Echo built-in, if one fancies all that "Alexa" has to offer in terms of voice control and other services features even if just to ask what the weather is or to define a word or ask it about some unknown country or movie, TV show, etc.

Basically Fire TV (the only choice of SlingPlayer) or Roku. I do not care for any of the other streamers as of today for various reasons. While other streamers have some advantages (like Android TV), they are lousy at doing what most people want for a streamer today. Those other streamers are for niche apps and users, and many of those who do have such streamers also STILL have and use either a Fire TV or Roku, so the other streamers are not really a Swiss Army Knife after all. And Fire TV and Roku offer inexpensive streamers that work well. This is not to say that the future may very well be Android TV ubiquitous in all homes, but not just yet. I hope that helps, and that is all very subjective.

Hope that helps.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Placed my order for a 4K Fire Stick. Should be here by Tuesday.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

@Series3Sub, what are we going to do now?

Individual streaming apps suck. They don't have the same flexibility in navigation as a Tivo.

I was forced to use one a few weeks ago, as I had forgotten to record a game. I went to FOX's on-demand app.

There was no way for me to navigate in time (FF or REW). I either had to join the game in progress, or watch from the beginning with no navigation.

I thought I might have been doing something wrong, so I tried the Firestick version; the Android TV version; and the web version. All were very limited.

There isn't anything like being able to precisely control DVR content like a Tivo, and extended via Slingbox.

Is a Tivo Stream still a viable option, to be used with a Tivo Premiere XL4?

+++++++++++++++++

https://www.slingbox.com/

*IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENTS*
11/9/2020
Effective November 9, 2020, Sling Media's Slingbox products will be discontinued.

To find a list of the Slingbox models subject to this decision and for additional details, please visit www.slingbox.com/discontinued.

Sling Media will continue to support existing users who remain under warranty.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nuraman00 said:


> @Series3Sub, what are we going to do now?
> 
> Individual streaming apps suck. They don't have the same flexibility in navigation as a Tivo.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I got the email, too. Well we at least about 2 more years into 2022, but it is a SAD bit of news.

I agree with you about your experience using the apps. The really sad thing is that Slingbox worked much, much more reliably than the TiVo app ever did for remote viewing. In fact, I remotely viewed TiVo exclusively with Slingbox because TiVo's remote view is a CLUSTER MESS!

Just recently, Dish had to completely redesign and re-code the Dish Anywhere app to meet modern tech requirements, and it has been an unreliable mess, although Dish has improved it in recent weeks, but I know it will take time to get it to work as well as the old Dish Anywhere app. So, now I depend upon Slingbox to stream my Dish content Live and DVR while Dish fixes the new Dish Anywhere, with design changes that are INFERIOR to the old app. The new versions takes more effort and is not nearly as intuitive as the previous version, so Slingbox has been the simple, reliable fallback that NEVER FAILS, and, of course, we can do and access MORE--or ANYTHING we can do at home--with a Slingbox than we can with either TiVo or Dish Anywhere app or those stupid channel apps.

What will I do? Maybe I'll be dead by 2022, and I don't have to experience the nightmare of the TiVo app or the not nearly as bad Dish Anywhere app. I suspect the Dish Anywhere app will be fine by 2022, but certainly NOT the TiVo who has seen the Cable Card requirement killed and may hasten TiVo's final days. I just hope that Xperi (TiVo's owners) continue to keep the servers up for us retail customers considering they have to keep the servers up for MSO (smaller cable company) customers, but I don't know what Xperi is capable of doing.

Well, let's just enjoy our Slingboxes for the next 2 years while we can. NO, I can not think of another product that does what the Slingbox does, and by that I mean plug into almost ANY device and stream whatever comes out of the HDMI or analog outputs (even DVD/blueray players and DVD Recorders outputs can be streamed) and stream it to a remote location. And certainly there is no other product than plug into the outputs of proprietary DVR's like TiVo's and cable and satellite DVR's and stream to any location.

I guess if I want to stream OTA broadcast channels remotely, I would get the Amazon Fire TV Recast, warts and all, but for Dish DVR content, I have no other option then Dish Anywhere app. In fact, for any cable or sat service DVR, one is relegated to their own apps that can include inferior options or features since they don't control the DVR or linear box as if you were at home with all options and features and operations as if you are front of the box at home.

Well, just enjoy the time you have left with your Slingbox. We have until 2022, so there is at least some time left.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks for sharing.

I never even got the email from Slingbox. I checked all of my inboxes. I had to find out through a post on this forum.

Why does Slingbox even need their servers up, for this setup to work? Shouldn't it just be through one's own router?

How do people use a Slingbox with a DVD or Blu Ray player, remotely? Does the disc already have to be in the drive?

Do you think a Tivo Stream would be the next solution for me, with my Tivo Premiere XL4? Would I then be able to remotely watch content? Does a Tivo Stream use a tuner?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

nuraman00 said:


> Would I then be able to remotely watch content? Does a Tivo Stream use a tuner?


I have a Stream. I can watch content from TiVo Online. It does not use a tuner, just an Ethernet connection. I have no knowledge of the Slingbox or Sling.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> I have a Stream. I can watch content from TiVo Online. It does not use a tuner, just an Ethernet connection. I have no knowledge of the Slingbox or Sling.


Are you sure about that? When I watch "live", it starts recording on a tuner. No way around that. Of course if you watch other recordings, that would obviously not use a tuner.8

Since Slingbox/Sling is going to quit working soon, it doesn't really matter. But think of it as a remote desktop session, where you see and control exactly what the local viewer sees and controls.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> How do people use a Slingbox with a DVD or Blu Ray player, remotely? Does the disc already have to be in the drive?
> 
> Do you think a Tivo Stream would be the next solution for me, with my Tivo Premiere XL4? Would I then be able to remotely watch content? Does a Tivo Stream use a tuner?


Yes the disc would have to be in the player or you call someone at home to load it for it.

I think Tivo will soon follow Sling in terms of obsolescence. I'd personally pursue some sort of cloud/streaming replacement. If you're a cable watcher, replacing your whole system and service with Youtube TV, for example, would give you all your current channels and the ability to watch anywhere with nothing but a streaming device. If you're an OTA watcher, then any number of software DVRs would work the same (Recast, Channels, Tablo, etc.).


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Yes the disc would have to be in the player or you call someone at home to load it for it.
> 
> I think Tivo will soon follow Sling in terms of obsolescence. I'd personally pursue some sort of cloud/streaming replacement. If you're a cable watcher, replacing your whole system and service with Youtube TV, for example, would give you all your current channels and the ability to watch anywhere with nothing but a streaming device. If you're an OTA watcher, then any number of software DVRs would work the same (Recast, Channels, Tablo, etc.).


Thanks.

The biggest drawback to me of YouTube TV is that content can only be kept for 9 months. I have some stuff that I like to keep. Other times, it can take a few years before I watch some content.

Most streaming platforms aren't good with sports channels, but YouTube TV is one of them. But the limit on how long content can be kept, sucks.

Let's say Tivo was discontinued. Do their servers need to be up, for the DVRs to still work? I thought that was one advantage of having local storage.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

And this doesn't even address my frustration with most apps. 

Navigating in time is more limited.

Then some of them do stupid things, like if I pause content, then sometimes they put a navigation menu on top of the paused content, without a way to remove the navigation bar. A lot of times I pause content so I can look at a scene more closely. For example, if I'm watching "The Simpsons", there's a lot of funny signs that I need to pause to read.

If I'm watching a game, sometimes I want to pause something to see where the ball is (with sports with small balls).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Are you sure about that? When I watch "live", it starts recording on a tuner. No way around that. Of course if you watch other recordings, that would obviously not use a tuner.8


You are correct. I should have said recording.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The biggest drawback to me of YouTube TV is that content can only be kept for 9 months.


Right, not an option for those who keep recordings forever. But fine for most of use watch and delete types. Whenever it takes me 9 months to get around to watching something, that means I was never interested enough to justify recording it in the first place.

Problem is you're not going to have that option much longer. With the cable card mandate gone, Tivo's days are numbered.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Right, not an option for those who keep recordings forever. But fine for most of use watch and delete types. Whenever it takes me 9 months to get around to watching something, that means I was never interested enough to justify recording it in the first place.
> 
> Problem is you're not going to have that option much longer. With the cable card mandate gone, Tivo's days are numbered.


I tend to watch sports most of the year, only when most of them are in the offseason, do I get to other TV shows and movies. Which is why some of my content stays for a while.

I do delete stuff when I'm done with it.

Other times, if I am recording a whole series, it takes a few months for all of the episodes to be broadcast. Then a few more months for me to watch, if not longer.

Hmm, I hadn't heard about the cable card mandate thing until you just mentioned it. Reading about it now:

Cable-box competition rules have been completely dismantled-to the detriment of consumers

So you think cable companies will stop supporting DVRs that use a cable card?

Can the Tivo function without a cable card?

If not, could Tivo just make a DVR that didn't need a cable card? Or what about Tablo or Plex, could they do that, for all cable channels (not just broadcast ones)?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> So you think cable companies will stop supporting DVRs that use a cable card?


Yes. It's already begun.


> Can the Tivo function without a cable card?


Yes. But you can't get any cable channels.


> If not, could Tivo just make a DVR that didn't need a cable card?


No. Both Tivo and the cable industry have had years to come up with a replacement. And here we are. Cable card is gone and there is no replacement in the pipeline at all.


> Or what about Tablo or Plex, could they do that, for all cable channels (not just broadcast ones)?


No. Tivo is (was) the only game in town for cable TV (besides Windows Media Center - also cable card like Tivo). Streaming is your other only option for recording cable tv content without using a cable company DVR. There is one outlier, Channels. It uses your TV Everywhere login to record cable TV streams from the web. But the quality isn't great, and it only works on certain channels, and of course still requires a cable or streaming subscription. I'd be very hesitant to put all my eggs in that basket.

Will some cable companies continue supporting cable card (and Tivo) indefinitely? Possibly. But they no longer have a legal mandate to do so. And the number of cable card customers is miniscule. So there simply aren't enough subscribers to have any influence.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it until your Tivo stops working. It may be fine for the rest of its life. But I certainly wouldn't buy any more Tivo hardware at this point.


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