# Heads up - Sky swapping SD and HD channels in EPG on 1 Feb 2011



## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

So for example, SKY1 HD will be listed at channel number 106 and SKY1 will be listed at channel number 170.

This change is only for HD subscribers - non-HD subscribers will experience no change (so for SD only subscribers, SKY1 will continue to be on channel 106).

This change could be a problem for the TiVo EPG as the station ident for channel 106 will be SKY1 for SD subscribers and SKY1HD for HD subscribers. How will TiVo handle this, will it just continue to refer to channel 106 as "SKY1" and 170 as SKY1HD, even though the former will be HD and the latter SD? Presumably HD owners will then need to change their SKY1HD Season Passes so that they are for "SKY1" instead.

Anyone using irblast to schedule HD recordings on their SkyHD box will need to tweak their HD channel list when the swap takes place on 1 Feb 2011.

Details from Digital Spy forum.


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## bignoise (Oct 7, 2000)

For day-to-day TiVo usage it shoudln't make any significant difference because the HD and SD channels that get swapped in this manner would only ever have an identical programme schedule to each other, so it really would not matter at all. 

Obviously if you're using the TiVo to cue specific off-board recordings on another device then that'd make more of a difference, as you say.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

bignoise said:


> For day-to-day TiVo usage it shoudln't make any significant difference because the HD and SD channels that get swapped in this manner would only ever have an identical programme schedule to each other, so it really would not matter at all.
> 
> Obviously if you're using the TiVo to cue specific off-board recordings on another device then that'd make more of a difference, as you say.


I prefer to feed my TiVo with HD channels whenever possible as the picture quality of the HD channels is usually better than SD, even over SCART, so once this change kicks in my existing HD Season Passes may start recording what is actually (from 1 Feb 2011) an SD signal...

You're right it's not going to be a major issue of course, just a bit of faffing about once the change has happened. I suppose the other option for TiVo would be to offer an extra package in Guided Setup - "Digital HD" - which has the HD and SD channels in their correct EPG location, but I doubt that will happen. The best we can probably hope for is to get used to some channels with "HD" idents actually being SD, and those without HD in the ident being the HD version! Confusing? A bit... 

The "off board" recordings I make on my SkyHD box are usually restricted to the sports channels, but it shouldn't be too much trouble to fix up the revised listing once it becomes known.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

HD recordings take a lot more hard drive space.
So for many, they'll only notice their skyHD boxes are suddenly full up.
An old 160gb skyHD box turns from an 80 hour box into a 20 hour box...

Will it happen automatically, or does the user select a menu option?


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

mikerr said:


> HD recordings take a lot more hard drive space.
> So for many, they'll only notice their skyHD boxes are suddenly full up.
> An old 160gb skyHD box turns from an 80 hour box into a 20 hour box...
> 
> Will it happen automatically, or does the user select a menu option?


Probably automatically, but details are still scarce - an option to switch would be nice though.

What is for sure is that the SD channels will remain available, so anyone concerned about disk space can still record from the SD channels, they'll just be scattered all over the EPG as the HD channels are now.

On balance I think it's a good idea, although how TiVo S1 will handle it gawd only knows.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Hmm, to handle this [properly, TiVo will need to have separate lineups for Sky and Sky HD.

I'm faintly surprised that the difference between a down sampled HD picture, and a native SD picture, is visible when it's been through TiVo's digitisation loop.

Or rather, I'm surprised that if that small pic quality difference is important to you, you don't watch it in native HD from the Sky box, which is a huge leap in comparison.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Hmm, to handle this [properly, TiVo will need to have separate lineups for Sky and Sky HD.


Yes, but the chances of that happening must be pretty remote.



TCM2007 said:


> I'm faintly surprised that the difference between a down sampled HD picture, and a native SD picture, is visible when it's been through TiVo's digitisation loop.
> 
> Or rather, I'm surprised that if that small pic quality difference is important to you, you don't watch it in native HD from the Sky box, which is a huge leap in comparison.


It's noticeable, hence the preference to record from an HD channel whenever there is the choice. Remember that some SD channels use shockingly low bit rates, sometimes I suspect to make the HD channels look even better than they otherwise would.

I mainly watch sport via the Sky HD box, and also to record any conflicts that I can't resolve on the TiVo thanks to a repeat. For everything else I prefer to watch on the TiVo even if the PQ isn't as good - the Sky UI is so [email protected] that I actually resent having to use it at all!


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

So if this is going to happen on Sky on 1 Feb, and I believe it still is, it's going to happen in less than 3 weeks... do we know if (or how) TiVo is going to handle this?

My guess is that if there is a change coming, this would show long-ish term commitment by TiVo to the UK S1 platform - bravo. If not though, I won't be surprised, but still disappointed - maybe a hack to irblast will serve as a work-around.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

If they keep it simple, then it will happen to all HD boxes - a bit like the Anytime service, where HD content is delivered to HD boxes and SD to the rest. That would cause problems for people with HD boxes that don't pay for the HD pack, as 106, 107 etc. will stop working and you would have to retune to SD content on 170 etc. 

Doing it that way though could be attractive to Sky as it would most probably sell more HD subs!


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## JudyB (Jan 25, 2006)

Trinitron said:


> If they keep it simple, then it will happen to all HD boxes - a bit like the Anytime service, where HD content is delivered to HD boxes and SD to the rest. That would cause problems for people with HD boxes that don't pay for the HD pack, as 106, 107 etc. will stop working and you would have to retune to SD content on 170 etc.
> 
> Doing it that way though could be attractive to Sky as it would most probably sell more HD subs!


The original post from Millhouse says:


> This change is only for HD subscribers - non-HD subscribers will experience no change (so for SD only subscribers, SKY1 will continue to be on channel 106).


This is what I have seen reported elsewhere which I think makes sense (even if Sky often do what will generate most revenue).

What I haven't heard yet is a clear statement about whether BBC1 will be affected since our BBC1 (Oxford) is clearly not the same as BBC1HD...


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

JudyB said:


> The original post from Millhouse says:
> 
> This is what I have seen reported elsewhere which I think makes sense (even if Sky often do what will generate most revenue).
> 
> What I haven't heard yet is a clear statement about whether BBC1 will be affected since our BBC1 (Oxford) is clearly not the same as BBC1HD...


Apparently terrestrial HD channels - BBC1, BBC2, ITV, C4, C5 etc. - will not be switching, so it's a subset of mainly satellite SD/HD channels that will be swapping. This should lessen the impact on TiVo somewhat, but could still leave it a little confused.


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## JudyB (Jan 25, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> Apparently terrestrial HD channels - BBC1, BBC2, ITV, C4, C5 etc. - will not be switching, so it's a subset of mainly satellite SD/HD channels that will be swapping. This should lessen the impact on TiVo somewhat, but could still leave it a little confused.


Thanks - I think that makes sense. At the moment all of our Tivo Season passes are on the SD Sky channels, but if I'm paranoid about missing something then I change them to the HD channel and set up the SkyHD box to record them too.

That way we have the choice of watching the HD version or the SD one if the Tivo is busy recording something else and can still make use of the SkyHD box's ability to record 2 programmes at once...

As you can probably tell from this, for me the Tivo UI for controlling the recordings still beats the Sky UI by a long way (and allows us to record from FTA channels when the Sky card goes into sulk mode and won't allow the SkyHD box to record ).


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Milhouse said:


> Apparently terrestrial HD channels - BBC1, BBC2, ITV, C4, C5 etc. - will not be switching, so it's a subset of mainly satellite SD/HD channels that will be swapping.


I received my HD channels crib sheet in the post from Sky today.

I'm sure it's purely coincidental, but these changes will mean that BBC HD, BBC1 HD, ITV1 HD, C4 HD and C5 HD will now move to the second page on the HD tab of the Sky TV Giude.

Interestingly, ITV2 HD, ITV3 HD and ITV4 HD will be moved onto the first page.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

As there are a lot of channel moves tonight - I would suggest Sky users do NOT force a daily call this evening as this will apply the channel changes on TiVo before they match on Sky.

Best let TiVo do it overnight or force a call on Tuesday morning.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

ozsat said:


> As there are a lot of channel moves tonight - I would suggest Sky users do NOT force a daily call this evening as this will apply the channel changes on TiVo before they match on Sky.
> 
> Best let TiVo do it overnight or force a call on Tuesday morning.


Any idea how this will be implemented, or what we should expect?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

The line-up you are using will be used and you will need to set 'Channels I Receive' to match whichever channel you need.

So 106 you will need to select either Sky1 or Sky1HD - While 170 will only have Sky1SD if HD viewers want to select it.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

ozsat said:


> The line-up you are using will be used and you will need to set 'Channels I Receive' to match whichever channel you need.
> 
> So 106 you will need to select either Sky1 or Sky1HD - While 170 will only have Sky1SD if HD viewers want to select it.


Ah, so they're adding a new station ident of SKY1SD?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

No - 170 will have the SD version of Sky1 for HD viewers - 106 will have both versions and you have to select which one you want.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

ozsat said:


> No - 170 will have the SD version of Sky1 for HD viewers - 106 will have both versions and you have to select which one you want.


OK, ta!


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

There is at least one mistake in the new TiVo line-up for Sky - should correct tomorrow evening.

If anybody spots any others other than Sky3+1 - post it here.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

The music channels will fix on Wedneday evening.


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## poissony (Feb 20, 2002)

TiVo seems to have updated OK but TiVoWeb is not reflecting the new channels and channel numbers. I've done a full reload to TiVoweb but to no effect. 

Is TiVoWeb correct for anyone?


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Do a Full Reload on TiVoWeb - it caches the channel linep upon starting.


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