# Battlestar Galactia "Sometimes a Great Notion - 1/16/09



## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Wow,,,

What is Starbuck? Not the final Cylon as defined.

The final Cylon revealed. And she knew about being reborn?

It was Earth. And the 13th tribe were Skinjobs...

Wow...


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

Win Joy Jr said:


> Wow,,,


Don't you mean, "Holy Frak!"

Dee's last scene just blew my mind.


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## dtivouser (Feb 10, 2004)

Here's my theory.



Spoiler



I think they are all frakkin Cylons especially Starbuck, and what's the chance that Dee comes back the same way Starbuck did? The same thing that resurrected her (and maybe the other 5) might still be functioning.



I was starting to get frustrated with the 'filler' in this episode, following Lee and Dee on their date. I guess that was useful considering what happened, but with ten episodes left I hope they kept the filling to a minimum.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

We have seen Kara Thrace have a resurrection opportunity on Earth. Are we going to see Dee get a resurrection opportunity (or would you say that's a catastrophe)?

Gaeta clearly said Dee was "glowing" which is often a sign of pregnancy. Do you think Dee knew she was pregnant and didn't want to bring a child into this nuked out civilization?


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

dtivouser said:


> I was starting to get frustrated with the 'filler' in this episode, following Lee and Dee on their date. I guess that was useful considering what happened, but with ten episodes left I hope they kept the filling to a minimum.


The point of the so-called "filler" was to show her state of mind so what did happen was an even bigger shock. In other words, it was not "filler" at all.


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## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

Wow! This was a really good episode. IMHO, back to season 1 quality. I hope the rest are as good.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I suppose whatever mechanism that was supposed to resurrect the ancient Cylons (were only five saved? Or did only five survive 2,000 years?) might still be functioning, and not limited to Cylons. That would explain Starbuck (and set up the anticipated, at least by some of us, return of Dee).

The good news is, this was great stuff. The nervous-inducing news is they're at a point right now where nothing is supposed to make sense, which is when this show is at its best. It's when they have to start explaining things that it tends to fall apart, Let's hope they can finally dodge that bullet...


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

dtivouser said:


> Here's my theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I walked away from this episode thinking that...



Spoiler



Starbuck is a resurrected cylon, and the 5th of the resurrect-able cylons. However, all current cylons were once humans living on earth who "skinjobbed" themselves in an effort to live beyond the apocalypse. All but the current "batch" of cylons have had their resurrection ships destroyed. Tigh and Dee saw the same thing when touching the waters of earth - the lives of humans that they think were themselves/their loved ones. Dee assumed she was a cylon and killed herself. Tigh saw Ellen and assumed SHE was a cylon. In reality, cylons were developed as a way to live forever, having the memories and "soul" of the human ancestor.


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Nooooo anyone but Dee 

Shocking scene, never saw that coming.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

we don't need spoiler tags if you're speculating on what comes next...I think it's an excellent theory that humans turned themselves into skinjobs as a means to achieve immortality...

not sure why everyone was surprised about Dee's suicide...I expected posts here to say how obvious they were making it...I mean, you just knew there would be a rash of suicides after what they've seen...

Gaeta lost his leg, so why exactly does he look like a vampire?


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## allietx (Oct 5, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Gaeta lost his leg, so why exactly does he look like a vampire?


Morpha addiction? Pain?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I agree with Anubys; after she was jabbering to herself on the trip back to _Galactica_ I was expecting her to go postal at any moment. I was not at all surprised (although I agree that was an excellent scene).

Pretty good episode. Interesting how they referenced Brother Cavil again; I guess that will be one of the last plot arcs (the rest of the Cylons catching up with them).


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

Does anyone get the feeling that Dee remembered something because of the jacks she found in the sand, something like what Anders and Tyrol experienced, something that told that she had lived on Earth before?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Great episode, I'm glad to see everyone else liked it 

Before the show I started to think too much about how Sol was 50+ years old and yet 40 years ago Cylons were only mechanical and too much on the analysis Gregg Easterbrook did of the science in the show in his TMQB column this week  Once I started watching the show I forgot all that though 

Not much Baltar in this ep.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

aintnosin said:


> Does anyone get the feeling that Dee remembered something because of the jacks she found in the sand, something like what Anders and Tyrol experienced, something that told that she had lived on Earth before?


it did seem strange that she reacted tot he jacks...I was trying to remember if they had a significance in her backstory but could not recall anything...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Starbuck finding her own corpse is a fascinating question for them to answer; and Dee killing herself was a shock, and I also like the twist that the 13th tribe were Cylons. I'm looking forward to Cavil and the other 'bad' Cylons returning. 

But overall; I think the melodrama is pretty thick and the payoffs to questions they answer is almost always lame - IMO. Ellen Tigh as the final Cylon? How anticlimactic is that? Just like so many other things, it feels contrived and made up along the way by the writers.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Liked it but don't need the black and white looking camera effects.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> it did seem strange that she reacted tot he jacks...I was trying to remember if they had a significance in her backstory but could not recall anything...


It might just be that she was thinking about the children who died on Earth. Which explains her somewhat manic state when she was babysitting Hera, and at least in part why she committed suicide (thinking about Hera's inevitable death)...


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## Ian (Mar 7, 2000)

Um...

For those who may want an insight (and an answer) as to whether or not we've seen the last of a certain someone...

http://scifiwire.com/2009/01/dualla-speaks-about-last-nights-battlestar-episode.php


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It might just be that she was thinking about the children who died on Earth.


I think this is it exactly. Although I am surprised that the game of jacks was known by the colonials and also that the jacks (and it appeared even the ball) survived the nuclear blasts. Dramatic license, I suppose.

It's interesting that they chose to portray the nuked version of Caprica as still green and habitable (albeit with significant levels of radioactivity, requiring medication for the remaining humans), but when earth was nuked they portray it as a wasteland, with nothing alive but a bit of shrubbery. It makes me wonder if they could/should just return to the colonies and deal with the remaining Cylon threat rather than wander around hoping to come across a habitable world.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Starbuck finding her own corpse is a fascinating question for them to answer; and Dee killing herself was a shock, and I also like the twist that the 13th tribe were Cylons. I'm looking forward to Cavil and the other 'bad' Cylons returning.
> 
> But overall; I think the melodrama is pretty thick and the payoffs to questions they answer is almost always lame - IMO. Ellen Tigh as the final Cylon? How anticlimactic is that? Just like so many other things, it feels contrived and made up along the way by the writers.


Sums up my opinions quite well, I really enjoyed where they were advancing the arcs, but I had to shout at the tv, "she's the 5th? that's the best you could do?"

Of all the potential 5ths, that one just doesn't grab me, there were so many others with potential.


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## Mr_Bester (Jan 27, 2007)

Ian said:


> Um...
> 
> For those who may want an insight (and an answer) as to whether or not we've seen the last of a certain someone...
> 
> http://scifiwire.com/2009/01/dualla-speaks-about-last-nights-battlestar-episode.php


There were similar articles when Starbuck "died".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> Sums up my opinions quite well, I really enjoyed where they were advancing the arcs, but I had to shout at the tv, "she's the 5th? that's the best you could do?"
> 
> Of all the potential 5ths, that one just doesn't grab me, there were so many others with potential.


I seem to remember hearing that


Spoiler



they're planning on introducing a number of possible "Final Five 5ths" along the way. After this episode, it would seem that there are billions of potentials (the population of Earth), and that Ellen (and Starbuck?) may represent a different kind of Cylon than the 12.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

oh my god we are all cyclons!!!


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

I'm going to make some of my usual "Overthinking a show that we all know has lost it's focus" predictions:

A few people theorized that maybe Ellen Tigh *was* #6 back when Tigh was having his hallucinations. There are some striking physical similarities, and, as Tigh pointed out, just because we haven't seen a cylon age doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. They seem to have their resurrection age (like Cavil always comes back as a 70 year old version of Doctor Yueh), but they also tend to die off and resurrect pretty quickly. What if Ellen Tigh was just an aged version of #6? Thinking back to the "Last Supper" picture, that would explain why #6 was in the Christ position...she was the one that apparently came up with the way that resurrection works.

We're definately going to find out how resurrection "works" in the coming episodes, and I think it's going to be much more metaphysical than people will want to accept. Almost like directed reincarnation.

I theorized back in season 3 that we were going to learn that the the "markers" on the way to earth were not placed by the 12 tribes, but by the 13th tribe as it returned from earth. Looks like that was the case.

I knew that Starbuck was resurrected; interesting twist that her ship was resurrected as well. My original theory was that her original incarnation was the 12th Cylon, and something changed her in her resurrection. Not so sure about that now. But I think we'll definitely learn more about it.

The final five are not "skinjobs" as we commonly define them. If resurrection is something like directed reincarnation, I think we'll learn that the final five are not models that had just been boxed up for a couple thousand years, but souls that were reincarnated late in the game.

Futhermore, "skinjobs" are not even skinjobs like we know them. The people of earth aren't combinations of biology and technology. I think that the Cylons (the biomechanical creations of the 12 colonies) and the "earthlings" joined up after the war. Earthlings obviously increased the abilities of the Cylons, and they enhanced themselves by combining the technology with themselves. When you can genetically modify your next revision, and then download into it, you can evolve very rapidly.

I also think that, probably to give them the manpower to survive, the earthlings that were able to re-incarnate fairly early found some way to duplicate themselves--again, a way to increase your population more rapidly than having kids. I think this, in combination with their own modifications, left them unable to reproduce in the traditional manner, leading to their interest in creating human/"cylon" hybrid children.

OK, last trippy theory--something with directed resurrection is tied to earth. I don't think that D is one of the final 5, but I think that we might see more people having some kind of memories that might tie back to previous lifes on earth.

Back to reality; I wonder if the final episodes will see them leave earth behind, or if they'll wind up sticking around (or coming back). Also, if earth does play in future stories, will they be able to do something about it, or will it just remain a relic? And the next episode almost feels like filler; hopefully that won't be the case and they'll use the final episodes to advanced the story as much as possible.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

ThePennyDropped said:


> I think this is it exactly. Although I am surprised that the game of jacks was known by the colonials and also that the jacks (and it appeared even the ball) survived the nuclear blasts. Dramatic license, I suppose.
> 
> It's interesting that they chose to portray the nuked version of Caprica as still green and habitable (albeit with significant levels of radioactivity, requiring medication for the remaining humans), but when earth was nuked they portray it as a wasteland, with nothing alive but a bit of shrubbery. It makes me wonder if they could/should just return to the colonies and deal with the remaining Cylon threat rather than wander around hoping to come across a habitable world.


I wonder if that could be a timing thing. Would all vegetation outside of the actual blast radius die right away, or could the resulting radiation and contamination lead to the gound ultimately not being able to support futher life.

Also, in the Cylon centered episode in (I think) season 2 when we spend quite a bit of time on Caprica, they imply that they're taking care of the radiation and making Caprica habitable again. Is there still such a strong Cylon presence back there even still, or did the Cylons pack up to chase down the humans--leaving Caprica (and the other colonies) empty?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

My brain hurts. 
Who else watched the part with Starbuck building the fire and burning the body and thought "End of Return of the Jedi, Luke burning Vader's body. " ?


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## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> My brain hurts.
> Who else watched the part with Starbuck building the fire and burning the body and thought "End of Return of the Jedi, Luke burning Vader's body. " ?


I was thinking grilled pork.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

One thought on the "dead" starbuck that I had forgotten about. The body was either deteriorated or burned badly. But it still had a full head of blonde hair. Was the hair just artistic license to let us know that the body was Starbuck, or is there some other explanation for the hair still being there?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

doom1701 said:


> or is there some other explanation for the hair still being there?


Poor writing 

I love the show but you just left that one hanging out there.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

doom1701 said:


> One thought on the "dead" starbuck that I had forgotten about. The body was either deteriorated or burned badly. But it still had a full head of blonde hair. Was the hair just artistic license to let us know that the body was Starbuck, or is there some other explanation for the hair still being there?


I was thinking hair and nails grow after death.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> Poor writing
> 
> I love the show but you just left that one hanging out there.


I thought we had officially renamed "poor writing" as "artistic license"


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

teknikel said:


> I was thinking hair and nails grow after death.


The hair was protected from the elements by the helmet, so when she pulled the helmet off, it was obvious whose body it was.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Sums up my opinions quite well, I really enjoyed where they were advancing the arcs, but I had to shout at the tv, "she's the 5th? that's the best you could do?"
> 
> Of all the potential 5ths, that one just doesn't grab me, there were so many others with potential.


All the proof we have right now, is from a hallucination by a half-crazy, probably drunk Tigh.

I'll wait until I hear D'Anna say it.

That said, there has been a lot of speculation over the past two years that Ellen was a cylon. Personally I think it's someone who is alive, and since there's been no evidence that there are multiples of the final five, that would leave Ellen out.


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

I'm thinking Ellen was the original basis for the # 6 model cylon. Obviously if you were to recreate/ressurect yourself, and had the choice, and you once looked like Tricia Helfer, you'd choose that period of your life to recreate yourself as. Yes? Or either she had little influence on the decision and the scientists resposible for the skinjobs chose to age this particular model "in her prime".

Morale of the story, Ellen isn't really the 12th(5th?) model.

Starbuck isn't either. She must have inadvertantly gotten caught up in one of Rodney McKay's interdimensional rift experiments and thus learned the way to Earth in a manner similar to how the Wraith did. 

So.......who else wasn't in the fleet when D'Anna made her statement?
Obviously Cally. and on that note, there is another hybrid baby to deal with too. Or could that baby be an as yet unheard of pure cylon conception?

Have we even seen the 5th before? Any possibility of a completely new character being introduced as the 5th?


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## b5ver (Jan 16, 2005)

appleye1 said:


> ...
> That said, there has been a lot of speculation over the past two years that Ellen was a cylon. Personally I think it's someone who is alive, and since there's been no evidence that there are multiples of the final five, that would leave Ellen out.


Questions that remain:

Was CylonEarth populated with millions or billions of copies of only the Five or were all Twelve copies there?

Was Kara's ship carrying the nuke?

Since Adama has known Saul for 30 odd years, were Saul and Tyrol and the others brought from CylonEarth to the colonies as babies and placed with surrogate families (like Hera was initially) with no questions asked? It would explain how their friends had known them all there lives.


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

In the memory flashback sequences there was no "multiple copies" that I remeber seeing so......

Of all 200 plus remains that were recovered and tested, every one of them was of cylon origin....

I'm thinking that CylonEarth was a fully functioning society of artificially created beings capable of reproducing "naturally".

The destruction of earth was either.......
Similar to that of Caprica, wherein "toasters" rose up and wiped out the "skinjobs".....or....

Quite simply the same kind of nuclear build up amongst super powers that we earth inhabitants have faced in our times ended in global warfare and they annihilated themselves for the most part.


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

b5ver said:


> Was Kara's ship carrying the nuke?


This was a GLOBAL annihilation, confirmed several times during the course of the show. Not just ONE nuke going off.

Although I guess that would be all it really takes to set off a global thermonuclear war.

Also, from informaion given in the episode, it has been 2000 years since the events that occured that brought them to where they are today. The condition of Starbuck's remains and the remains of her ship would be more inline with recent events in the show. Not something that occured 2000 years ago.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Archangel00 said:


> Morale of the story, Ellen isn't really the 12th(5th?) model.
> 
> ..............
> 
> ...


I can only hope you, and Rob, and the rest are correct, if Ellen really was the 5th.. I'm disappointed.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Archangel00 said:


> Of all 200 plus remains that were recovered and tested, every one of them was of cylon origin....


I wondered about that. Does the rest of the fleet know this?

Apollo said they told the fleet that just like the survivors of the 13th colony set out to found the 12, they too would set out and seek a new home. If they revealed that everyone on the ruined planet was a Cylon, that would have their descendants on the 12 colonies Cylons too. I assumed Apollo was bending the truth to inspire hope. But that would only work if the general population didn't know everyone on the planet that they tested so far as Cylon.



teknikel said:


> I was thinking hair and nails grow after death


They only appear to, because the body dehydrates after death and shrinks.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Archangel00 said:


> Of all 200 plus remains that were recovered and tested, every one of them was of cylon origin....


...with no explanation as to how, after it has been established that Spylons are medically indistinguishable from humans without very extensive, time-consuming tests involving nuclear bombs, they can do quick mass testing...


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

And talking of nuclear bombs, I take it that the background radiation was low enough not to make the skinjobs even slightly ill.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...with no explanation as to how, after it has been established that Spylons are medically indistinguishable from humans without very extensive, time-consuming tests involving nuclear bombs, they can do quick mass testing...


If the Cylons were running the tests, they probably know better what to look for than the humans who were working with a much smaller sample of Cylon DNA.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...time-consuming tests involving nuclear bombs...


I thought that was just Baltar bulls**t, wasn't it? Did they ever really come up with a real test for Spylons?

Anyway, I imagine there might be skeletal differences that are readily apparent in an autopsy that might not be in a live subject examination. Or maybe they had never thought to analyze Spylon bones, as their usual way of dealing with them back then was to flush them out the airlock!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

appleye1 said:


> I thought that was just Baltar bulls**t, wasn't it? Did they ever really come up with a real test for Spylons?


It worked, but when he identified Boomer he lied about the result.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

did they confirm from multiple sites that the inhabitants are all cylons or are we talking about one site? maybe this is where the cylons lived and the other half of the planet was full of humans (which would explain the war)


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

I seem to recall them mentioning that remains collected from all over the planet had all tested as Cylon...

One thing still is left completely unanswered about Starbuck's apparent resurection: Where did her ship and equipment come from? That kind of rules out some automated facility. Also she has no memory of waking up in a tub of jello either, although I guess modified memory implantation would take care of that. There must be somebody stil undiscovered out there that not only brought Kara back somehow, but duplicated her Viper, uniform, dogtags, etc...


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> And talking of nuclear bombs, I take it that the background radiation was low enough not to make the skinjobs even slightly ill.


I think after 2000 years, most of the fallout has settled and isn't floating around in the air.

Thus, if the levels were low enough, they wouldn't have to worry about topical exposure, but would not be able to drink the water or consume any food (and someone did warn them against drinking the water).


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Ellen Tigh as the final Cylon? How anticlimactic is that? Just like so many other things, it feels contrived and made up along the way by the writers.





dianebrat said:


> Of all the potential 5ths, that one just doesn't grab me, there were so many others with potential.


Who says Ellen Tigh is the final Cylon? It wasn't "shown" to Tigh, he's just drawn a conclusion from observation.

BTW, did Deanna ever meet Ellen Tigh? If not, that would likely mean Ellen's NOT the final, because of her saying, "You? I had no idea" in her vision.



doom1701 said:


> What if Ellen Tigh was just an aged version of #6?


That would certainly be a nightmare for #6. To look like 6 when young, and Ellen Tigh when old? Yeesh, that'd be almost like looking like a 23-year-old Tom Cruise when young, and Saul Tigh when old. 



scottykempf said:


> My brain hurts.
> Who else watched the part with Starbuck building the fire and burning the body and thought "End of Return of the Jedi, Luke burning Vader's body. " ?


It definitely crossed my mind, but then I thought all there is to burn is hair and bones, and that'd just be dumb.

Greg


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gchance said:


> BTW, did Deanna ever meet Ellen Tigh? If not, that would likely mean Ellen's NOT the final, because of her saying, "You? I had no idea" in her vision.


well, we don't know which of the five she said that to...I don't care who the 5th is, my money is on her saying that to Tigh; given the hell they have put him through and how much they hated him...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I still can't decide if I liked the episode or not.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

aintnosin said:


> Dee's last scene just blew my mind.


Hers too!


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## Mr_Bester (Jan 27, 2007)

Anubys said:


> well, we don't know which of the five she said that to...I don't care who the 5th is, my money is on her saying that to Tigh; given the hell they have put him through and how much they hated him...





gchance said:


> Who says Ellen Tigh is the final Cylon? It wasn't "shown" to Tigh, he's just drawn a conclusion from observation.
> 
> ....
> Greg


According to this article, Ron Moore says it too....
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...en-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mr_Bester said:


> According to this article, Ron Moore says it too....
> http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...en-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html


ugh......

I still think my line of reasoning would make things a lot more interesting if nothing else.....but we'll see.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Just watch last night, a couple of thought:

I don't think the Dee is coming back (this is not based on spoilers, just speculation.) I think he story line was to show how disappointing that earth the colonists found is to them. They were expecting to welcomed with open arms by the 13th tribe, and all they get is a barren planet. Everyone (including Adama and Roslyn) were affected, Dee just took her disappointment to the extreme. 

What the Frak is up with Starbuck???

AFA as Ellen Tighe being the 5th Cylon, that's it? We'll see if there is more to this story.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> And talking of nuclear bombs, I take it that the background radiation was low enough not to make the skinjobs even slightly ill.


Spylons are only susceptible to a special type of radiation. The type found in the nebula where the humans hid Ragnar Anchorage. Just plain old nuclear radiation doesn't bother them. Or else they wouldn't be staying on Caprica.


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## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

Mr_Bester said:


> According to this article, Ron Moore says it too....
> http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...en-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html


There's some spoilers in this article (not huge, but still...).

I thought the most interesting parts of the article regarded the interplay between the writer's strike and the timing of the writing/shooting of this episode.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

After watching this episode and being mostly bored, I was shocked to see all the praise here.

So either I just didn't get it, or everyone here is just so happy it is back they would've liked a full hour of nothing but the President whining about something else.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ahartman said:


> I thought the most interesting parts of the article regarded the interplay between the writer's strike and the timing of the writing/shooting of this episode.


Not that we needed it, but the interview was pretty conclusive proof that they really have been making it up as they went along!


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not that we needed it, but the interview was pretty conclusive proof that they really have been making it up as they went along!


Yeah, that pissed me off. If I had been interviewing the guy I probably would have choked him. We all knew they were winging it, but I had always hoped that we were wrong and that they actually had some grand plan mapped out (they kept saying the Cylons did, didn't they?)

How could they launch a series like this and have such a non-cohesive story? I won't expect much from the next project these guys put their name on. (cough-Caprica-cough)


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## pudding7 (May 13, 2002)

I just want to know how Starbuck got a brand new ship and uniform. It's one thing to talk about resurecting Cylons, but someone gave/built/created a brand new Viper and new clothes and gear for her when she came back.

So where's the factory and who's running it?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

pudding7 said:


> I just want to know how Starbuck got a brand new ship and uniform. It's one thing to talk about resurecting Cylons, but someone gave/built/created a brand new Viper and new clothes and gear for her when she came back.


Ship of Lights.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not that we needed it, but the interview was pretty conclusive proof that they really have been making it up as they went along!


Unfortunately it just continues to reinforce that Cylons never had "a plan." They were just making it up as they go along.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

JETarpon said:


> Ship of Lights.


I was hoping that Count Iblis would surface in these last few episodes. Looks unlikely though...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TriBruin said:


> Unfortunately it just continues to reinforce that Cylons never had "a plan." They were just making it up as they go along.


I've long since gotten over the fact that the story wasn't fleshed out through its conclusion right from the start..like pretty much every other TV show in existence.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

hefe said:


> I've long since gotten over the fact that the story wasn't fleshed out through its conclusion right from the start..like pretty much every other TV show in existence.


Wisdom. :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> I've long since gotten over the fact that the story wasn't fleshed out through its conclusion right from the start..like pretty much every other TV show in existence.


Lost being a major exception.

And a show that began every episode from the beginning with "They have a plan" should have, well, a plan. That's been one of the major disappointments with BG (which, to be fair, also has its strengths). It tried to have it both ways by posing as a Show With A Plan without actually doing the work. If you're going to be lazy (and, as you say, many shows are), then at least don't pretend not to be.


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## moot (Apr 8, 2006)

appleye1 said:


> How could they launch a series like this and have such a non-cohesive story?


This sparked my brain to come up with a hopefully relevant point. BSG started off with a miniseries. That storyline revolved around a Cylon attack (revenge) on the colonies with an apparent goal of completely rendering the human race extinct. Looking at just that tiny window of story, the show's creators had a whole, concrete concept. They didn't really know the "why" of the attack, but as a limited-scope story, it worked.

It wasn't until it got picked up as a series, and they had to start explaining the "why", that things began to fall apart. I suspect that after the success of the miniseries, Sci-Fi pushed them to get a series into production as fast as possible. When creating the universe where the miniseries took place, they hadn't needed to go into the kind of details they would need with a regular series.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

moot said:


> It wasn't until it got picked up as a series, and they had to start explaining the "why", that things began to fall apart. I suspect that after the success of the miniseries, Sci-Fi pushed them to get a series into production as fast as possible. When creating the universe where the miniseries took place, they hadn't needed to go into the kind of details they would need with a regular series.


From what I've gleaned from interviews (mostly with Moore), this isn't the case. They just don't feel the need to plan things out; they pride themselves on making it up as they go along.

They also seem to have a pretty healthy contempt for actual science fiction--to them, it's just trappings.

Then again, considering the show's popularity it's hard to say they're wrong from their perspective. I just don't see things the same way they do, and to me they'll always be wrong wrong wrong. But I always have been a little... odd.


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

Humans create robots. The robots revolt, wage war, disappear and in turn create human versions of themselves called cylons.

Cylons return in the pursuit of wiping out the human race. The human colonies are nearly destroyed and limp off to find a mythical earth from where they supposedly came from.

The Cylons in turn discover God and religion and factions open up among themselves. One faction believes that the humans can lead them to a path of self-discovery and that they can live together.

These Cylons and the humans embark on a journey to find earth. They find it and disover that 2000 years ago, some version of the Cylons and toasters existed on an earth that was destroyed during a nuclear holocaust. No signs of humans.

So what does this all mean and how do the events of 2000 years ago tie in to the present? Everyone can't be a Cylon because we know there have been situations that only affected the Cylons and the humans showed no ill effects. Also, don't Cylons have super strength and haven't found a way to reproduce yet. Something humans do easily. Cylons can communicate with computers. So I think we can say that humans are humans and cylons are cylons. 

Is it possible that the first life on earth was mechanical? This life evolved into the cylons. The cylons rose against their mechanical creators and earth was destroyed in the process. The survivors set out to find a new home, found it, and the cycle started again, only this time in reverse?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

slocko said:


> Humans create robots. The robots revolt, wage war, disappear and in turn create human versions of themselves called cylons.


The robots _are _Cylons. The humanoid Cylons (a.k.a. Spylons) are a later development, at least in the context of the Colonies. But the mechanical Cylons are supposedly the originals. It hasn't yet been explained where the Spylons come from.


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Why the frak does somebody always find jacks in every post-apocalyptic wasteland? I don't think any of my neices or nephews _ever_ played with jacks, but according to most sci fi the landscape must be littered with them.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Lost being a major exception.


Along with Babylon 5.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not that we needed it, but the interview was pretty conclusive proof that they really have been making it up as they went along!


The podcasts made this pretty clear a long time ago as well.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> Along with Babylon 5.


And most importantly, Arrested Development.

(Had to get an AD reference in somehow )


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I liked this episode but this is the most unrelentingly depressing tv show ever. No way I'm buying the dvds to get depressed all over again.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Were do the human/cylon hybrids fit in to this. Back in the day the plot line as that they were the most important thing in the world. now they're just kids?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

No mention thatthe Cylon helmet found was one of the 1970 show's Cylons?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> No mention that the Cylon helmet found was one of the 1970 show's Cylons?


Those were the helmets they had during the First Cylon War in this series, too...


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Didn't they make mention that they weren't any models that the current Cylons knew of?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, then, it wasn't the helmet from the original series, because those were the ones we've seen on the Cylons during the First Cylon War.


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> Ship of Lights.


During the Kara commanding the waste ship arc, given her paintings.

Still trying to put it all together. Kara has got to be a cylon given her resurrection.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Win Joy Jr said:


> During the Kara commanding the waste ship arc, given her paintings.
> 
> Still trying to put it all together. Kara has got to be a cylon given her resurrection.


Yup, she's the 6th of the final five. No actually she's the 1st of the new final five. No, actually it depends on which is the stickiest idea they throw at the wall this week.

But yeah, I think she's a Cylon too. It wouldn't surprise me if they threw the whole "final five" thing out the window, and there will end up being a lot more Cylons we don't know about now.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The robots _are _Cylons. The humanoid Cylons (a.k.a. Spylons) are a later development, at least in the context of the Colonies. But the mechanical Cylons are supposedly the originals. It hasn't yet been explained where the Spylons come from.


Yeah, and the Spylons have been around for 2000 years evidently but just showed up in the 12 colonies sometime in the past 40 years (given that the colonists had never seen them before.) Maybe it took them 2000 years to get to the vicinity of the 12 planets for some reason? And then when they got there (at some point during the 40 year span) they bumped into the mechanical Cylons and formed an alliance with (or enslaved) them?

Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

latrobe7 said:


> IMO. Ellen Tigh as the final Cylon? How anticlimactic is that? Just like so many other things, it feels contrived and made up along the way by the writers.


That's the way I feel. Ellen as a Cylon, who cares.


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## jebbbz (Sep 7, 2007)

appleye1 said:


> Yup, she's the 6th of the final five. No actually she's the 1st of the new final five. No, actually it depends on which is the stickiest idea they throw at the wall this week.
> 
> But yeah, I think she's a Cylon too. It wouldn't surprise me if they threw the whole "final five" thing out the window, and there will end up being a lot more Cylons we don't know about now.


The Finalish Five don't know that they are Cylons until they are triggered. Even then, the First Four of the Finalish Five didn't know what is going on until or about their earth history when they were triggered. Thus, the Finalish Five have dodgy memories. Also, I don't think we have yet seen evidence that the Cylons-on-Earth needed anything but biology to reproduce and of the Finalish Five there is one married couple. Thus, I confidently predict that it will turn out that Kara is the forgotten and forgetful daughter of Saul and Ellen Tigh.

As evidence, nay, proof of this, consider the season after season of warm, loving and respectful relations between Saul and Kara, the playful banter and teasing they engaged in without knowing why.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

appleye1 said:


> Yeah, and the Spylons have been around for 2000 years evidently but just showed up in the 12 colonies sometime in the past 40 years (given that the colonists had never seen them before.) Maybe it took them 2000 years to get to the vicinity of the 12 planets for some reason? And then when they got there (at some point during the 40 year span) they bumped into the mechanical Cylons and formed an alliance with (or enslaved) them?
> 
> Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.


I still can't believe that people still think the final 5 are "spylons". Ellen's statement should be conclusive enough for everyone--something was done then to allow Tigh and the others to be reborn. Earth wasn't swarming with human/machine hybrids--it was swarming with humans (albiet slightly different in biological makeup from the "Caprica" humans).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

doom1701 said:


> I still can't believe that people still think the final 5 are "spylons". Ellen's statement should be conclusive enough for everyone--something was done then to allow Tigh and the others to be reborn. Earth wasn't swarming with human/machine hybrids--it was swarming with humans (albiet slightly different in biological makeup from the "Caprica" humans).


Well, it depends on whether you're going by what the writers thought in the early seasons of the show (that there were 12 models of Spylons) and what they thought after they started showing Spylon society and realized they had to have an explanation of why nobody sees the other five (that the other five had been boxed), and what they think now (that the other five are something completely different, which makes you wonder what that note to Adama was all about, and what the Spylons were talking about all those years).

What I can't believe is that anybody thinks anything matters, since they make it up as they go along without a whole lot of care for what went on before...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> After watching this episode and being mostly bored, I was shocked to see all the praise here.
> 
> So either I just didn't get it, or everyone here is just so happy it is back they would've liked a full hour of nothing but the President whining about something else.


I can't say I was bored or disappointed, but, to me, it was average BSG. It's likely (at least to me) that so many of us were jonesing for BSG that nearly any BSG would have pleased us.



cheesesteak said:


> ....No way I'm buying the dvds to get depressed all over again.


Well, at least you could get depressed in HD (if, like me, you're relegated to watching it in SD  ) They are they available in Blue Ray, aren't they (or will be?)?


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Guess I'm in the minority, but I thought this was a horrible episode. Hardly any dialog and depressing from start to finish.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

I have to agree with the detractors. This episode started out rockin' with them looking around the planet and finding out stuff and Starbuck finding herself. But then it just degenerated to the usual BSG dreak. Everyone is depressed and feeling sorry for themselves. Blah...


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## Talon (Dec 5, 2001)

I would expect it to be a depressing episode. The whole series to this point was surviving until they reached earth. Everything they fought for was to make it there alive and this is what they find. I would be depressed too.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

pudding7 said:


> I just want to know how Starbuck got a brand new ship and uniform. It's one thing to talk about resurecting Cylons, but someone gave/built/created a brand new Viper and new clothes and gear for her when she came back.
> 
> So where's the factory and who's running it?


Presumably the same automated factory/resurrection-facility that brought back the Five after Earth's holocaust. The big question in my mind is, how the frak did Kara's wreckage wind up on Earth in the first place?!  She went down over a completely different planet, right? Even if someone/thing needed to take her body to Earth to ressurect her, why leave it and the Viper wreckage strewn across the landscape? It just doesn't make sense to me...


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## Sromkie (Aug 15, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> Presumably the same automated factory/resurrection-facility that brought back the Five after Earth's holocaust. The big question in my mind is, how the frak did Kara's wreckage wind up on Earth in the first place?!  She went down over a completely different planet, right? Even if someone/thing needed to take her body to Earth to ressurect her, why leave it and the Viper wreckage strewn across the landscape? It just doesn't make sense to me...


Yeah, that's what bugged me, too. I guess they could explain it away with some kind of wormhole, but that's kind of lame. I hope that, if they do answer that question, they have a better explanation than that.

The whole entire planet of earth being "Cylons" thing makes me wonder what exactly happened to everyone. Did just some of them have access to whatever it was that resurrected them (I assume a resurrection ship), or did EVERYONE resurrect? If they all did, there could be an entire civilization of these Cylons elsewhere and maybe the five left that civilization in search of the original 12 colonies. I can't imagine why they lost their memory though. Also, I would think resurrecting and entire planet at once would cause some kind of server overload, so that's probably not feasible anyway -_^


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Was is me, or did Edward J. Olmos' acting seemed forced and terrible this episode?


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> They are they available in Blue Ray, aren't they (or will be?)?


I'm afraid no season of the show is currently available on Blu-ray (Universal supported HD-DVD during the format war) but showrunner Ronald D. Moore has said that the series is set to (at least) receive the super-duper boxset treatment on Blu-ray. My guess would be sometime in the fall (of this year).

I hope they do season sets as well - I'd be willing to buy seasons 1 & 2 for sure. Probably season 3 too. Unlikely that I'd pay for season 4 though. I was ambivalent about the final 5 nonsense but this episode - though it was actually great in other ways - just pushed me over the edge.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I thought the episode started out really good. The end with the reveal of who the last of the final 5 was a let down. I could watch the old man and tigh all day long very good stuff.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Sromkie said:


> Yeah, that's what bugged me, too. I guess they could explain it away with some kind of wormhole, but that's kind of lame. I hope that, if they do answer that question, they have a better explanation than that.


well, that's exactly what Kara said...she was going through that storm or whatever and when Lee saw her blow up, she actually materialized over Earth or something like that...so she could have blown up on earth, been downloaded and put into a brand new viper and sent back on her merry way...


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## techrat5 (Sep 17, 2003)

Sromkie said:


> Also, I would think resurrecting and entire planet at once would cause some kind of server overload, so that's probably not feasible anyway -_^


I remember something about the download process storing them if there were to many at once. That is why it took a few months to download SIX after the original attack.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> Was is me, or did Edward J. Olmos' acting seemed forced and terrible this episode?


Yeah, he's not a very convincing drunk. *Shrug* Every actor has his/her weaknesses...


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## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

I liked the episode overall, but hate the fact that Ellen is the last of the final 5. I was glad to see her go last season, always hated her character.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

rlc1 said:


> I liked the episode overall, but hate the fact that Ellen is the last of the final 5. I was glad to see her go last season, always hated her character.


But since she probably isn't you'll be fine


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## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> But since she probably isn't you'll be fine


I hope you're right. But I'm just getting ready for a big disappointment at the end of the series. It doesn't look promising...


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I think it's going to be VERY hard for them to come up with a satisfactory final Cylon. There is no existing character where it wouldn't seem wrong and introducing a new one would be odd. Perhaps it will be God or something


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## sopranoiam (Aug 8, 2007)

With so few episodes left....has anyone considered the tie-in between BSG and Sarah Conner Chronicles? Wouldn't that be kewl? With all the switching between present/future....and many words are being batted around in Sarah that are key to BSG if you listen. Who knows....couldn't they run with that and keep BSG alive in a way also....


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> I think it's going to be VERY hard for them to come up with a satisfactory final Cylon. There is no existing character where it wouldn't seem wrong and introducing a new one would be odd. Perhaps it will be God or something


I think the phone lines at the writers offices just lit up.

"What if God was the final Cylon"?
"That's much better than making the Galactica a Cylon, like we thought of this morning. Let's do it!"


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

rlc1 said:


> I hope you're right. But I'm just getting ready for a big disappointment at the end of the series. It doesn't look promising...


sorry to disappoint you (link to interview w/ Ronald Moore)


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

I'm sure I'm thinking way beyond what the writers are actually doing, but everyone is assuming this really is Earth and that the 13th colony were cylons. My first thought when they tested the bones was that this wasn't really Earth at all. 

I'm thinking this might be a series that really is better left with them not finding Earth and fades out with them back on their quest... everything else has gotten way over complicated and way over cylonized to the point of just being silly.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Some of what you're thinking has been contradicted by the producers in published interviews after the broadcast of this most recent episode.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tem said:


> sorry to disappoint you (link to interview w/ Ronald Moore)


damn that's depressing, and Moore clearly says "we were making it up as we went" So while the Cylons may have had a plan, Moore and his writing team didn't.
:down:


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> damn that's depressing, and Moore clearly says "we were making it up as we went" So while the Cylons may have had a plan, Moore and his writing team didn't.
> :down:


He's been saying that for quite a while now. At least it looks pretty. 

Greg


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

unless I missed something, where the frak was Helo ?


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

also, I'm wondering if they are going to come back to the whole monotheism vs. polytheism thing. Perhaps that's why the Cylons were cast out ? A good 'ole fashioned religious war ? It's always been the most intriguing aspect of the show for me.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

tem said:


> unless I missed something, where the frak was Helo ?


He was playing with Hera and Sharon when Dee came to babysit.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Kara's wreck was planted by Widmore, of course.

I wasn't crazy about Ellen being the fifth (fitting, for a drunk's wife) but at least it wasn't Kara's viper.

Personally I was hoping that the final Cylon was actually the human race -- the final model had the ability to reproduce with variations to the theme. 

Plan or no plan, I still believe the ending will be great. Hey, who knows, maybe all this talk about making stuff up is just misdirection.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

edit: deleted my threadcrap.

I thought this show might turn a corner upon reaching earth, but I was sorely disappointed by this episode.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

You're joking, right?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

while I am not happy that Ellen is the 5th, I am grateful it wasn't Chief's wife (forget her name now, another think I'm grateful for!)...


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I am thinking that some of the initial stuff about the cylons will go away (glowing in the back when they get excited, etc).

I am predicting that the human-like cylons, aren't cylons at all, but really just the 13th tribe who during their demise figured a way to "clone" themselves (at least some of them did). They did this for a long time (almost 2000 years) and they found their way back to the original colonies. As time went on, their heritage was forgotten and they just started to blend in...or maybe they kept to themselves and they became self-delusioned...maybe 7 of the 12 "models" started to hate the other tribes because they lived on better than "cloning". 

During the cylon war, the human "cylons" manipulated the machines into believing they were cylons as well to get back at the humans. The other 5 didn't want that and just blended in.

In the end we'll find out that there is no difference between human and cylon, just that the "cylons" are just clones of old humans.

To me, that would seem to work...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MasterCephus said:


> I am thinking that some of the initial stuff about the cylons will go away (glowing in the back when they get excited, etc).


they can get around it if the 5 do not get the glowing back and the 7 do...it doesn't pass the sniff test if Ellen, the slut that she is, was able to hide the fact that her spine glows from the hundreds of lovers that she had...


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

Anubys said:


> they can get around it if the 5 do not get the glowing back and the 7 do...it doesn't pass the sniff test if Ellen, the slut that she is, was able to hide the fact that her spine glows from the hundreds of lovers that she had...


I am just betting since they are making it up as they go, that they will just make that part go away...

We see this with a lot of shows (I am totally thinking Stargate with this). The older the show gets, the older ideals tend to fade away and the only ones who really remember are the fanboys.

I just think that this is where RM is going with the story...

Think about it...if these clones have been around for over 2,000 years, they have seen things over and over and over again ("this has happened before, and will happen again") so that statement doesn't mean that the whole cloning (read cylon) process will happen again, but the human condition will go over and over again...


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

I have a bad "spot" in my recording... I think Comcast was having a seizure or something for like 5 minutes... any chance someone can hook me up with a segment of the show in MPEG?

I finally got to see it last night 

I don't have the time code (I'm at work), Former president Roslyn was sitting on the floor burning the "prophecy book" (the only frames I could see). The whole section of video from commercial to commercial is more or less garbled.


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

Try Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/53330/battlestar-galactica-sometimes-a-great-notion


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

Spiff said:


> Try Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/53330/battlestar-galactica-sometimes-a-great-notion


but that defeats the purpose of saving all the episodes


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

I don't think Starbuck is the final Cylon. I do beleive she was "reborn" by the same facility that the final 5 were originally put through. Her Viper? I have no idea. Unless the cloning facility can do machinery and clothing too. There has to be "someone" in charge of it and not just sutomated.

After the episode i figured Dee could be reborn as well. However, if there is someone behind Starbucks ressurection then Dee won't come back. I do not think it is a proximity thing like the regualr Cylon Ressurection ships.

Ellen Tigh...Not sure...I think it could be Tigh's wishful thinking. He does see her when he looks at Six sometimes too. Maybe he is just replacing her image with the image of his real wife from when he was on Earth. If she does turn out to be the "creator" of the ressurection process then I guess she'd have to be the 5th or like has been said, an older version of Six.

Rob


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I tried to read through the thread, but all the people speculating about Earth and the Final Five and Starbuck, etc. just made me realize that I really don't care what happens on this show. I'm watching because I'm invested, and I will watch through the end. But I just don't have the energy to care enough about all the possibilities. The writers clearly don't either. Let's get the next nine episodes over with so this can be behind us.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

I heard an interview with Aaron Douglas who plays Chief Tyrol. All he had to say about the rest of the season was that the last time we see each character will be the last time we will want to see each character. We won't want to see "5 years later" or anything like that.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't understand the debate over "who is the 5th cylon"...I mean, it's settled...the 5th cylon is Ellen...the Kara situation will have to be resolved a different way (there's a 13th cylon or something else)...


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

WinBear said:


> I heard an interview with Aaron Douglas who plays Chief Tyrol. All he had to say about the rest of the season was that the last time we see each character will be the last time we will want to see each character. We won't want to see "5 years later" or anything like that.


So Callie is coming back, but this time naked? 'Cause I'd still like to see her again like that.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

If the opening is still to be believed, it clearly states that there are twelve models of humanoid Cylons, and at the start of this episode, it said, ONE was to be revealed. If you believe the opening is not lying to us, then there are only the simple answers: Ellen is the last of the Cylons, and Kara is not one. Her body, and her viper being on Earth need to be explained though.

How about this as speculation: The 13th tribe were humans who lived on Earth, and who independently developed cylons. Just like in the colonies, the Cylons rebelled, but in this case, they completely dominated the humans. Then, 2000 years ago, the remains of the humans nuked the Cylons. So, all the bodies are Cylon because the humans had arranged to leave.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> Then, 2000 years ago, the remains of the humans nuked the Cylons.


Which then asks the question (which I didn't see asked here yet, unless I missed it):
WHEN does this series take place? In the year 4000 A.D.?

-Mike


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

marrone said:


> Which then asks the question (which I didn't see asked here yet, unless I missed it):
> WHEN does this series take place? In the year 4000 A.D.?
> 
> -Mike


Are you assuming that the "Earth" they found is our own planet? In light of this episode, I no longer think that that's very likely. Or if it is, then it's been blown up, and later recolonized, more than once.


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

Anubys said:


> (there's a 13th cylon or something else)...


There were apparently billions of unique "cylons" on Earth 2,000 years ago, if Baltar and Tigh's theory is correct, so a 13th is not out of the question. Before now, there were only 12 _known_ models.


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## bigray327 (Apr 14, 2000)

dcheesi said:


> Are you assuming that the "Earth" they found is our own planet?


It could be Terra. We haven't seen that yet, have we?

Or even Paradeen, which was supposedly destroyed by the Eastern Alliance.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

bigray327 said:


> It could be Terra. We haven't seen that yet, have we?
> 
> Or even Paradeen, which was supposedly destroyed by the Eastern Alliance.


I thought that the final cylon was going to be Boxey, who decided to nuke everything over his grief about the loss of his daggit.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

If they introduced the character of Boxey, the *rest* of us would likely follow Dee in our grief over a once great show. We ALL would likely nuke the producers over the addition of such an awful character!


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Church AV Guy said:


> If they introduced the character of Boxey, the *rest* of us would likely follow Dee in our grief over a once great show. We ALL would likely nuke the producers over the addition of such an awful character!


Boxey's been around, in the Miniseries, Water, Bastille Day, and Kobol's Last Gleaming (although the Water and Kobol's sightings were only in deleted scenes on the DVD set)

That little %*^[email protected]## is probably still hanging around the ship somewhere...


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Maybe Tom Zarek is taking care of Boxey.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

dcheesi said:


> Are you assuming that the "Earth" they found is our own planet? In light of this episode, I no longer think that that's very likely. Or if it is, then it's been blown up, and later recolonized, more than once.


I'm making that asumption primarily because nothing else said seems to contradict it.
Said either by the characters "This isn't the Earth you're looking for" (with the appropriate waving of the hand), or even the episode summary (it explicity said Earth). Then again, if the summary said "what the think is Earth" then that would be too much of a giveaway.

I haven't listed to any podcasts or anything.

So perhaps it's all a ruse and they have yet to find it.

One thing does puzzle me, though. If the nuking happened 2000 years ago, then the 13th tribe left before that. So they had space technology back then.
In over 2000 years, shouldn't the technology of the colonials be a little better than it is?

-Mike


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

His point was that maybe this is not OUR earth, as in the one we really live on. This could all be a fantasy story in a galaxy far far away.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> His point was that maybe this is not OUR earth, as in the one we really live on. This could all be a fantasy story in a galaxy far far away.


agree...they know this is "their" earth because they were given its "sky" at the temple...so if everything lines up, it's earth...

the only questions remaining about that is if their earth is our earth...and if so, when?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Here's a publication of the information about that that I provided earlier:


> [Q:]
> That planet is Earth? We're not going to find out, "Oh, there's this other Earth over here..." This is the only Earth we'll see?
> 
> [Battlestar Galactica executive producer Ronald D. Moore:]
> They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. *They found Earth*.


http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...en-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> agree...they know this is "their" earth because they were given its "sky" at the temple...so if everything lines up, it's earth...
> 
> the only questions remaining about that is if their earth is our earth...and if so, when?


Well, it has our sky... (Orion, etc.)


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, it has our sky... (Orion, etc.)


I'm leaving open the possibility of a parallel universe?

in reality, I never even checked that


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

we've seen cylons show super strenght, as recent as the scene when cally got ***** slapped across the air dock. yet we see chief tyrol fight in this last episode and not show any super strength. not very consistent, but i guess that is nit picking.

i thought it was established that the cylons where created by the toasters as they tried to improve themselves. there was one episode where a young odama is sent to a ship where they find the toasters experimenting with humans. why can't the cylons recreate the resserection hub? they have the technology.

shouldn't tigh be in therapy right about now? he killed his wife for colloborating with cylons and here he is a therapy. that would put me in therapy.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

slocko said:


> there was one episode where a young odama is sent to a ship where they find the toasters experimenting with humans.


Would that be newly inaugurated President Odama


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