# Wife won't delete recordings



## timckelley

I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.

(Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)

My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


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## LooseWiring

Upgrade.

Your wife preferrably, but upgrading your TiVo should work almost as well.


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## LooseWiring

Another solution is to hand her a box of blank videos and tell her to start dubbing.

Another option that won't have much of an immediate benefit is to only allow her to record shows in basic quality.

Or, buy a new TiVo.


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## martinp13

Get your wife her own TiVo. Seriously, that's what a lot of people have done. And if your schedules are that different, it probably makes the most sense.

Why not archive her stuff to VHS? Giving her the tapes doesn't cut it, since you have to essentially "watch it" to dub to VHS.

And I know you can't say it, but she's being really rude. If she's that far behind, she should tell you to go ahead and delete one of the series to make room. Besides, once it "fills up", it won't record anything else, so she'll miss some episodes.


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## msu2k

Buy her her own Tivo. If it's that big of a problem, it's worth it.


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## stevel

Get a second TiVo for your stuff.


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## TiVoChick

The extra TiVo definitely does the job. I have 2 teenage kids and our viewing habits aren't always the same -- we often want to TiVo different programs at the same time. So now we have 3 TiVos and there's no more fighting.


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## timckelley

Gosh, I'd hate to shell out for a second TiVO, but it would solve problems. I think what I may do is wait until her programs are about to delete... that may motivate her to start watching her stuff.

I'm a little confused by the order TiVo will use to decide what to delete. I hear that the first thing it deletes is the suggestions. Once that's done, I would think it would delete the ones that say "until space needed" before the ones that say "Keep until I delete". Once the former is gone, I assume it starts attacking the latter. But within those two categories, what order does it use? Note: In the season pass manager I moved shows up and down the list thinking it would affect the priority. Will it delete all episodes of one show before attacking another?


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## ashu

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> 
> I'm a little confused by the order TiVo will use to decide what to delete. *


Mostly right, except I understand that when the entire TiVo is full of KUID shows, NOTHING will be deleted. It will just stop recording new stuff 

I would also suggest you upgrade, but it would ...
1. Make her procrastinate more  
2. Delay the inevitable - a full 200+ hour TiVo as opposed to an 80 hour!

I upgraded weeks ago from 80 to 80+120, and upped the recording quality (I had grown to loathe Basic Quality, and some shows don't look good enough at medium either!), so I was able to relax a week or so before it filled up again!

A second TiVo might be your better, if not cheaper option.


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## Riggstonia

forget the new tivo, get a new wife


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## allan

A second Tivo is the best choice if you can afford it. Then you won't be bothered if she fills hers with KUID (Keep Until I Delete). An alternative is to save everything to VCR. That's less time consuming than actually watching the shows, since you don't have to be sitting at the tube while it saves it. As for what gets deleted when, suggestions go first, then the Keep Until Space Needed. Basically, if it has a yellow exclaimation point, it could go anytime. The solid yellow will expire in a day. Tivo never touches the KUID's. They're there until you (or your wife) deletes them.


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## Fustanella

TiVo will never delete "Keep until I delete" shows; only humans are authorized to do that. The error you mentioned earlier demonstrates that.


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## mbalgeman

> _Originally posted by allan _
> *A second Tivo is the best choice if you can afford it. Then you won't be bothered if she fills hers with KUID (Keep Until I Delete).*


Until she fills up your TiVo with her KUID stuff.  I can see the conversation now...
Wife: I can't record my show because my TiVo is full. Can you record it on your TiVo for me?
...

Honestly, with most shows being in re-runs at this point, you might just be able to ride this out for a couple weeks until the wife starts to catch up. Upgrading to a bigger hard drive will give you a bigger buffer for the next season of First Runs, so it might be worth doing it for the future.

Another option is make the kid's shows season pass "Save until space needed". That way you can set up the other shows to record, then change the kid's show's season pass back to KUID. I've never tried it, but I think that would work.


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## drosoph

Ok, get her her own TiVo ... I think you will win some points for doing so (I did) ... and it just *helps* the marriage in the long-run. We got our second and never looked back !


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## dgh

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Gosh, I'd hate to shell out for a second TiVO, but it would solve problems. *


Have you tried running the math by her? ie time to catch up = hours recorded / (average hours available to watch TV each night - average hours of "important" stuff TiVo records each night). Is the denominator even positive?


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## stevel

> _Originally posted by dgh _
> *Have you tried running the math by her? ie time to catch up = hours recorded / (average hours available to watch TV each night - average hours of "important" stuff TiVo records each night). Is the denominator even positive?  *


I take it you're not married, if you are offering such a suggestion seriously.


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## Mike20878

It's a pain, but I go through and extend the keep until date on shows that are in danger of deletion. I'm trying to watch as much as I can to catch up...


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## foo monkey

Start deleting her programs, one at a time, but don't tell her. If she finds out, which she probably won't, apologize. She's not going to divorce you over television.


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## allan

> _Originally posted by foo monkey _
> *Start deleting her programs, one at a time, but don't tell her. If she finds out, which she probably won't, apologize. She's not going to divorce you over television. *


I wouldn't bet on that! Some people take their TV very seriously.


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## edrock200

Throw a 120gb drive in there to add to your 80gb.


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## aaronw

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> I'm a little confused by the order TiVo will use to decide what to delete. I hear that the first thing it deletes is the suggestions. Once that's done, I would think it would delete the ones that say "until space needed" before the ones that say "Keep until I delete". Once the former is gone, I assume it starts attacking the latter. But within those two categories, what order does it use? *


KUID means KUID, no ifs, ands, or buts. What you saw was that it did not allow you to schedule more things because it knew that it would have no space to put them. As far as within space needed, I think once all of them are showing the yellow (!) I *think* it's just in order of when the 'save until date' is, but I'm not sure - I never let myself get that far behind the TiVo because I know I'd have to spend a whole weekend trying to get up to date.


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## foo monkey

Tell her she's being selfish.


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## Mike20878

> _Originally posted by foo monkey _
> *Tell her she's being selfish. *


Oh, that'll fix everything! 

Out of curiousity, what programs does she have saved? My wife had me TiVo'ing all kinds of reality crap...

Mike


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## rsnaider

Add another vote to upgrade...

I guess that could either be the wife or the TiVo.


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## allan

> _Originally posted by Mike20852 _
> *Out of curiousity, what programs does she have saved? My wife had me TiVo'ing all kinds of reality crap...
> 
> Mike *


EuYuck!!


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## JPA2825

Why not simply tape to VHS as you watch the program? Then she gets the benefit of the 60x FF and you use less tapes b/c all the commercials are edited out. She can hardly complain about that setup.

I recommend that you put each show on a different tape in chronological order. Also be sure to tape the Now Playing Screen to make sure which one you're taping.

Finally, when I'm done watching and I want my wife to know that I've watched it, we FF to 5 min. mark. That way if I start a show that is at 5 min., I know I can delete when I'm done watching.


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## Jonathan_S

> As far as within space needed, I think once all of them are showing the yellow (!) I *think* it's just in order of when the 'save until date' is, but I'm not sure


IIRC the tivo actually deletes the oldest expired show, not the show that has been expired the longest. Normally this is the same show, but if you have extended the save until date on some shows that might not be the case.


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## Davidian

Tell her that 2 shows are getting deleted every day. Let her decide if she wants to do it, or if you will have to.


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## edrock200

Tell her you got an error message that the Tivo is very tired of holding all that information and that it will begin to drop some of it soon if it's not watched or deleted. The message also warned that save until I delete is very stressful for the Tivo and causes wierd problems. It then said that no guide data will be downloaded because it's too full. It's filled up it's long term memory and now everything is being stored in short term memory. It's a very critical situation!


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## Timber

Delete her stuff and blame it on a TiVo bug!

-=Tim=-


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## Polcamilla

Okay, she's kind of in denial here, but what I think would *REALLY* help is a brief lesson on the different save options available.

Keep At Most = 1 - 5 or ALL

-This is the most BRILLIANT delete option of all, particularly for kids' shows. I'm really confused that she's having your archive the kids shows to tape. How many kids' shows does she have on tape already? How old are your kids? Do they *really* care which particular episode they're watching (and if they do, are they actually not old enough to understand how to watch/delete, themselves?). In our house, we use Keep At Most extensively for my 2 1/2 yr. old's shows. Since we know how many are being kept, we know exactly how many hours his stuff takes up. And since he doesn't care *which* episodes he watches, we know that he'll always have an episode (or two or five) to watch and that they'll be different, so we don't get sick of seeing the same thing over and over and over. We also never have to delete these shows when he's done watching because we know they'll be overwritten by new shows when the new shows air (and, not deleted BEFORE then). And, of course, if we are taping 3 shows at KAM=1, then we know his stuff takes up 1 1/2 hrs. of space on our TiVo. It will never take up *more* than 1 1/2 hrs. of space and nothing that we watch will ever get deleted for his shows because his older shows are getting deleted to make the space for the new show.

- Save Until = <Date>, Space Needed, I Delete

Most of the shows spouse and I care about are 'Save Until Space Needed'. We have a 60 hr. box and stuff tends not to get deleted until it's about 2 weeks old (actually, right now we have all of Firefly sitting at the bottom of our TiVo and still have stuff lasting two weeks---I think it's because we're watching less TV than when we first got our TiVo). We delete things when we're finished with them and sometimes delete things unwatched if we know we're not going to watch them (sitcom reruns, etc.). If a show we *really* care about gets down within the last 10 or so programs and we haven't watched it, I'll switch it to 'Save Until I Delete'. Then, when we *do* watch TV, we start at the BOTTOM of the list, watching the SUID programs first, then the SUSN. Sunday I did a marathon session of 'American Dreams' and got caught up for the season after not watching it in over a month. We have about two months worth of new Smallvilles to catch up on. Most of the SUSN stuff has a yellow dot with a ! in it by the time we watch it, so we don't use that to gauge its deletion likelyhood, but instead go by how close to the bottom it is. If it's the 5th show from the bottom, 1 hr. long, and the 4 things under it are 1/2 hr. sitcoms, then I know I need to watch it soon, because we've only got about 2 hrs. of recording time before it goes poof!

If stuff has been sitting for a *long* time as SUID at the bottom of the TiVo *or* gets to the bottom without me noticing and gets deleted before it's watched or switched to SUID, then I just decide we didn't *really* care enough about it to make it a priority and let it go. Plus, I figure that *everything* will show up in syndication or on DVD someday.

(I also have a few things set at KAM=2, primarily HGTV stuff and similar things that don't have any kind of story arc across episodes. I tried setting my 'Friends' reruns that way once and switched it because the different stations *do* show them in order and I'd get annoyed if I didn't have one in sequence if I was watching them.)

If your wife really has that much stuff on the TiVo and she's not watching any of it, sounds like she wouldn't've had the chance to watch it if she was TiVoless and she's just hoarding shows because she can and not really thinking about what she wants to do with it. Just like money is useless if not *eventually* spent, TV is useless if not eventually watched.

I'd teach her how to use the delete options a bit more intelligently and let her get a feel for how long stuff tends to stay on her TiVo under 'normal' circumstances (setting everything to SUID isn't really considered normal usage since the TiVo was never designed to archive television). Once she has a sense for how long shows tend to last and figures out how to really prioritize the shows she cares about and make time at some point in her life for them, she may do better. If she just can't do that, then I feel sorry for you, because if she's hoarding TV then I'm sure she's hoarding other things in her life too, and I can say from personal experience that this kind of behavior usually brings a lot more frustration and discontent than satisfaction. Have her check out www.flylady.net and good luck!


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## allan

One thing your wife hasn't caught on to yet. It's probably not possible to watch everything Tivo records! The best she can hope for is to watch the best shows in Now Playing. Something will either get deleted, or not recorded in the first place for lack of space.


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## jzawilski

As a wife and as a future TiVo-er, I say give her this TiVo (warmly and without resentment) and buy a new one for yourself. It's the most healthy answer for your marriage!


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## Joey303

Jzawilski: best suggestion yet!


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## bkc56

I've done several of the things suggested in this thread.

First, we have two Tivo's. One is for my wife's stuff and the kid's stuff. If it fill up, I don't have to stress about it.  The other Tivo is for my stuff and the stuff that both my wife and I watch. 

Next, both Tivo's have been upgraded with more space, but of course that only delays the problem.

Third, on the my/our Tivo, I record everything as KUID. If it's my show, I watch and delete it. If it's our show and we watch it together it's deleted. If I watch it I change it to 'yellow-dot' for her to watch and delete. The key idea here is that if she falls to far behind (and she's WAY behind right now) the some of the old stuff will simply vanish without failing to record anything new.

Having lived through one Tivo (and the stress I felt as it filled up) the only long-term solution (if your wife doesn't see-the-light) will be to get a second Tivo.


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## Azure

Definitely give her the current TiVo and tell her she's responsible for it. Explain the situation, that once it's filled, it will stop recording. Then buy yourself a new TiVo, with more space of course, and forbid her to record anything on it.


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## MediaLivingRoom

Get a DVD-Recorder.

or wait for a US version of the Sony NDR-XR1


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## samkuhn

You really should upgrade your Tivo to a large drive size. A 120-160GB drive will cost about $70-$120 and will more than double your space. The process is reasonably straightforward. Visit the upgrade forum.

I would suggest that you help your wife ween herself from keep-until-I-delete. Maybe a bit of negotiation to only use that on her three most favorite shows, and the rest go under "delete when space is needed". My wife and I have a 40+120 and it allows us to keep shows for 1-2 months before they delete, depending on how much other junk we watch. You could also ask her to not use KUID, but instead just keep reseting the delete date on the shows. At least that way it will be a bit of a nuisance to continually reset the timer on 30 shows, and a reminder that the tivo is full of shows that aren't being watched. Recording at lower quality will also free up some space, if you can tolerate it.


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## hokiepolk

I agree...buy yourself your own TIVO, and tell your wife she has an early anniversary present.


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## steuert

If you buy another TiVo, it will probably just be a matter of time until she fills that one up. She just can't bear the idea of erasing something she "might" want to look at in the future. Reminds me of a friend who taped hundreds of hours of TV movies to watch after he retired, but then never watched one.

If you must humor her, then IMHO probably the best answer is to transfer the TiVo recordings to something with removable media, such as a VCR or DVD recorder. When she sees the actual cost and inconvenience of keeping all this old junk around, maybe she will realize that, if she hasn't gotten around to watching a recording after a few weeks, she probably never will; and that in any event "it's only TV" and hardly worth archiving forever.


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## wa2joc

Separate TiVo's are like separate bathrooms - the secret to a happy marriage.


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## Fustanella

This really boils down to whether he has his wife set to "Keep Until I Delete" or if he entered into one of those til-death-do-us-part things.


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## dgh

Well clearly she's not "save until space needed" or she'd be gone already


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## martinp13

Be sure you let us know what the decision is, and how it works out.  We're nosy that way.


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## Turtle

If it were me, I'd dump the wife. Already done that twice,
wait......oops....they both dumped me. But I'm living 
happily with my 3 tivos.
turtle


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## sw10025

*Fellow Member of the "Tivo Pigs" Anonymous Survivors' Club*

Well, as a woman, I feel kind of funny even suggesting that this be done to another woman, but it sounds like buying another Tivo will only delay, not solve the problem. She's definitely in denial that she'll ever have time to watch all those programs, not with a small child(ren) she won't. My mother is also a "Tivo pig". I bought the original 30 hour Tivo for both my parents as a joint Christmas present, but my father was never allowed to use it, not without a lot of *****ing on her part. They upgraded to an 80 hour Tivo during the promotion a couple of months ago, and I said something to my father about maybe now he would get to use it, and he said "Don't be ridiculous. She'll just hog the new Tivo." Sure enough, he doesn't even have an hour recording on the new Tivo because the relentless nag wouldn't allow it without excessive *****ing.

My suggestion: change the "save" date from "save until I delete" to "save until Saturday" on some of her less favorite programs, or the oldest recordings, and say nothing. It might motivate her to watch them if she sees those exclamation points, and if it doesn't, or she doesn't even get to the TV to notice them, well, its not like YOU deleted them. The machine deleted them, not you. That'll take care of the immediate need. For the long term, summer will help, but next fall, consider changing "save until I delete" to "save 7 days" -- that'll probably keep at least a couple of weeks worth of each program, unless you have an excessive number of season passes.

The advice given earlier about the childrens' programs is also excellent -- kids want to watch the program. They don't care about the episode. As long as they have some, and some turnover, they're happy.


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## timckelley

Wow... so many responses. I feel I should give more background. We just got our TiVo a couple of months ago, and before that, we used to use a VCR to manually tape shows to watch later. We built up quite a backlog of tapes at the time of the TiVo purchase. My wife actually has watched part of the tape backlog, and a little bit of the TiVO backlog, but she still definitely has more tape backlog to watch, not to mention a whole bunch of TiVo backlog.

We have a 3 1/2 year old son, which keeps her very busy; that's why she has trouble watching the backlog. I myself have completely caught up and have no backlog. Here's why:

1) I have less shows on my list than she does. Several of her shows I simply refuse to watch because I've made a decision on how many shows I want to watch, based on how many hours I'm willing to spend watching TV. My list is not small, however, but it's smaller than hers.

2) I do most of my watching late at night after both my wife and son have gone to sleep. Sometimes I just stay up later, other times I go to sleep when they do, but wake up in the middle of the night and can't sleep, so I watch then too. So I personally have no tape or TiVo backlog.

Another thing... we temporarily have a reprieve because the seasons are over and mostly reruns are being shown now, so our To Do list is fairly small. One problem is that we have 3 season passes for kid shows, and sometimes they run marathons (even now), and then the To Do list gets big. (They're KUID-all episodes.) Right now, if I try to schedule something more than 2 or 3 days out it says the memory is full. That was a really neat suggestion somebody made about temporarily changing the season passes to KU space needed, schedule my show, then change the season passes back to KUID. I think I'll try that.

Recall that we offload the kids shows to tape as soon as we can. This really does seem silly to me. My son actually doesn't like the shows because he's too young to appreciate them. But my wife wants to save them on tape for the day that he'll like them. So far, we recorded about 6-12 episodes per season pass. She doesn't want any of them missed. I think I should have a frank talk with her and suggest that when the time comes for him to appreciate such shows, there will be plenty available at that time in the guide data (maybe not *that* show, but some appropriate shows), and we can TiVo them then. But she doesn't always think logically in these areas, so we'll see how that conversation goes.

One more thing I worry about. We got our TiVo in the middle of a season. What happens next year when a new season starts? If my wife doesn't keep up, there's going to be awfully large number of episodes she'll want stored. Maybe upgrading is an option, if the new buffer is large enough to last through the season so that she can catch up in the summer.


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## timckelley

P.S. I hope my wife doesn't discover this thread. Fortunately she doesn't know about this forum.


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## timckelley

New question about deletion.

Suppose all your suggestions are gone, and the only thing in your TiVo memory are season passes, some with KUID, and some with KU space needed. Suppose your TiVo is full and it needs to record something. Of course it won't touch the KUID, so it attacks the other. Will it delete in chronological order of when they were recorded, or will it first delete all shows lowest in the season pass manager list first before going to a different series? I'm assuming that's why we're able to move shows up and down in the season pass manager.


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## bmackiew

Count me in for the idea of having separate TiVos. My wife and I did just fine with one TiVo, as long as there was nothing she liked to watch. Once one of her friends introduced her to HGTV, it all went to hell in a handbasket, and I suddenly had far more home decorating shows on my drive than I thought a human could watch. 

And I was right. She can't watch them all. So I got myself a DirecTiVo, and gave her the standalone to do whatever she wanted with. She has total responsibility for getting her shows off the drive, whether it's by watching and deleting, deleting without watching, or doing nothing and watching her shows get overwritten. Removing myself from the equation made our lives much easier, and she's become more involved in deciding what shows have a higher priority to her - just like it should be.

Now I need to get one for my daughter, and life will be even better. Clifford and The Wire don't really mix.

Bill


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## timckelley

I should say also that as of the last few days my wife has increased the available memory by watching a little bit, and changing some shows to worst quality. So instead of being down to our last 2-3 hours, we've got about 7-8 hours of room on it. I still say that her rate of freeing up is going to have to increase when the new season starts in Fall. Here's what I think my options are:

1) get a second TiVo
2) upgrade our current one
3) archive more to tape
4) when the Fall comes and we become in imminent danger of filling up the TiVO with KUID causing shows not to record, I need to negotiate an agreement with her to change KUID to something else.

If an old episode gets deleted, I say it's more important for me not to miss a new episode than for her not to miss an old episode, especially if I'm keeping up and she's not.

Truthfully though, she does feel guilty for not keeping up, but she really wants to see all her backlogged shows.


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## timckelley

I like the second TiVo idea, but it's so expensive! $250 for the TiVO, $300 for the lifetime service. Total $550 layout for a second TiVo. That's a little hard to digest.


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## TiMo Tim

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Recall that we offload the kids shows to tape as soon as we can. This really does seem silly to me. My son actually doesn't like the shows because he's too young to appreciate them. But my wife wants to save them on tape for the day that he'll like them. So far, we recorded about 6-12 episodes per season pass. She doesn't want any of them missed. I think I should have a frank talk with her and suggest that when the time comes for him to appreciate such shows, there will be plenty available at that time in the guide data (maybe not *that* show, but some appropriate shows), and we can TiVo them then. But she doesn't always think logically in these areas, so we'll see how that conversation goes.*


Just out of curiosity (as the father of 2-yr-old and 4.5-yr-old boys), what kinds of shows is she recording?

We've done what a few others here have suggested: keep at most = 1, delete when space needed. We've got about 6-10 season passes for them, and all are set up this way. Our 4.5-yr-old loves Rescue Heroes, which is only on once per week-- but he'll watch the same episode every morning after he's ready for school. Our 2-yr-old says "Watch Bear [in the big Blue House]" and there it is for him. Yes, they're TiVo-spoiled.

We recently had our Sony series 1 serviced (failing hard drive), and had to be without the TiVo for about 2 weeks. It was a big shock to the system for our sons (and my wife!). They're much better now, though.

I've had to tighten up some of my wife's season passes, too. I had to limit her to 3 "Trading Spaces", and maybe 3 "30 Minute Meals". Marathons of Trading Spaces would fill up the list quickly. I also moved it down in priority, below all of our prime-time passes. Otherwise, it was pre-empting some good shows.

Good luck with the fight!

BTW, my opinion (since you don't want to shell out for another TiVo) is to put a stop to all the archiving. Nothing gets a default of KUID. If you need to keep it longer, use it sparingly. With summer here, you'll be spending more time not watching TV, so it's not going to get any better. Also, go back & adjust recording quality on shows that aren't worthy of the space (unless it's unwatchable on a big-screen).

Tim


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## allan

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *New question about deletion.
> 
> Suppose all your suggestions are gone, and the only thing in your TiVo memory are season passes, some with KUID, and some with KU space needed. Suppose your TiVo is full and it needs to record something. Of course it won't touch the KUID, so it attacks the other. Will it delete in chronological order of when they were recorded, or will it first delete all shows lowest in the season pass manager list first before going to a different series? I'm assume that's why we're able to move shows up and down in the season pass manager. *


I think it's in order of when the shows were recorded, oldest first. I don't think the priority on Season Passes has any effect on when it's deleted. It just determines which show gets recorded if you have 2 shows at the same time.


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## timckelley

>> Just out of curiosity (as the father of 2-yr-old and 4.5-yr-old boys), what kinds of shows is she recording? <<

The three shows are:

Liberty's Kids
Cyberchase
Between the Lions

>> We've done what a few others here have suggested: keep at most = 1, delete when space needed. <<

That's not really applicable to us because our son currently has no interest in any of the three shows. He also doesn't know how to talk yet because he's autistic, and doesn't do much TV requesting except for some video tapes he watches repeatedly. (He's currently 3 1/2 years old. My mother's pretty sure I was partially autistic too, and in fact I didn't speak until until was 4 or 5 years old.) I guess I should ask my wife how many episodes we really need to archive for a child who might never want to watch them. I think she's feels these shows are educational and for that reason she thinks he should watch them.


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## phone1

Yes I agree about the second TiVo, but don't tell your wife. Rent the "other" TiVo it's own apartment and visit it on your lunch hour and weekends. Oh yes, there will need to be the occasional over night "business trip" during sweeps week, your favorite playoffs, etc.


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## Mike20878

I tried setting my Wiggles SP to delete when space needed and KAM=5 yet I still have more than 5 in my now playing list. Will it only limit them to 5 when it needs space?

Thanks,
Mike


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## zaknafein

Tim, 

I have nothing to add, but just wanted to say thanks for your intellegent, well-thought out posts.

You clearly have a deep understanding of the subtle nuances of the TiVo's behavior. It's refreshing to see someone post a question, and have all their facts straight.


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## CrispyCritter

> _Originally posted by Mike20852 _
> *I tried setting my Wiggles SP to delete when space needed and KAM=5 yet I still have more than 5 in my now playing list. Will it only limit them to 5 when it needs space? *


 The episodes that existed before you last changed the expiration options on the SP, and any episodes for which you have manually changed the expiration date, will not count towards the 5. You shouldn't get more than 5 otherwise.


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## mmascari

> _Originally posted by CrispyCritter _
> *The episodes that existed before you last changed the expiration options on the SP, and any episodes for which you have manually changed the expiration date, will not count towards the 5. You shouldn't get more than 5 otherwise. *


If you change just the KAM and not the expiration, it will delete shows. I've seen instances where I change the KAM number and shows were deleted. For instance, it was 5 and I had 4 shows but haven't looked at any of them, and none are SUID. After changing the KAM number to 2, only 2 shows are left.

On the other hand, as mentioned, if you change the expiration date for a specific show, it's not counted, and I've seen this as well.


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## Polcamilla

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *>> Just out of curiosity (as the father of 2-yr-old and 4.5-yr-old boys), what kinds of shows is she recording? <<
> 
> The three shows are:
> 
> Liberty's Kids
> Cyberchase
> Between the Lions
> *


I understand how difficult it is for your wife, wanting to provide your son with the most encouragement and stimulation she can, but if he's not interested in these shows now and even *MIGHT* be later, I can guarantee she'll have no lack of options when he does show an interest.

Any kids' show that is halfway decent and even vaguely educational does not get dropped lightly. With three networks doing an intense amount of educational kids programming (PBS, Nickelodeon, and Noggin), content is definitely at a premium. They'll rotate great shows in and out of the schedule and repackage them as needed. I've taped a *lot* of vintage 70's Sesame Street for my toddler (because I loathe what they've done to Sesame Street recently) and have a current wishlist for The Electric Company so I can hoard up a bunch of the Spiderman clips and pass them on to a TiVo-less friend whose son is crazy about Spiderman. I'm not familiar with the first two shows your wife is saving but Between The Lions is a big one and I'd be shocked if it they stopped broadcasting it in the next few years.

As for her own shows, more and more programs are being offered by-the-season on DVD (for rental or purchase). When my husband and I get around to watching Buffy, this is probably how we're going to do it. She might consider just letting a few shows go for now and buying them instead of hand-archiving them so she can have them on hand for later. This is what we'll probably end up doing for Firefly (well, except, renting, not buying). And, again, one never knows when some cheesy program or another is going to get picked up by a cable channel (think Max Headroom on TechTV).

I do really think the problem is that she needs to find a way to let go of all the archiving. It sounds like she has a very full and busy life and she just doesn't need the guilt she's feeling every time she walks past or looks at the TV. Gently remind her that it is only television and that it's okay turn her back on imaginary characters in artificial circumstances.

Good luck!


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## Leon WIlkinson

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions? *


Find out how many hours of shows are keep until I delete... then subtract that from your 80 hours and that is what TiVo uses to tell you when things MIGHT delete.

So dub some shows then keep them and set the expiration to see when they delete/worn of pending so that could give some room and might get her to let you change the expiration( 2weeks ahead) once a week on all the shows instead

You and her need to live on the edge and just risk "your" shows .

Or fight fire with fire and set yours the same way so it won't record at all. If she fights dirty this might not be one of the first five options!


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## LynnL999

I was faced with a space problem after going on vacation during sweeps, during which a long miniseries also recorded.

To keep other stuff recording, I decided to take a cold hard look at my SP list. Some of the stuff on there that I had as KUID really didn't need to be -- for example, any of the Law & Order shows. I like them, but I won't die if I miss an episode. Anything I miss now will show up on regular reruns or TNT eventually, and it doesn't matter what order you watch that show in, or if you miss an episode. So those became keep until space needed.

I looked at my other SP's similarly, and learned that I really only had a few that I truly wanted as Record All, KUID. The rest could go if they absolutely had to, and I'd be sure of always having space for the shows that were really my top priorities. 

I also had a few shows recording daily on default quality (Medium) which really could be in Basic, e.g., The Screensavers, to save more space. I don't know if either of these suggestions might help, but I hope so. 

Another thing to consider with the kids' TV shows is that I'm sure kids TV won't be immune to the explosion of TV shows on DVD. (In fact kids' TV seems particularly ripe for that medium.) A $19.95 per month Netflix subscription seems to me a far more practical way to have access to such shows, without archiving yourself into a house full of tapes stacked all over 

Good luck,
Lynn


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by samkuhn _
> *You really should upgrade your Tivo to a large drive size. A 120-160GB drive will cost about $70-$120 and will more than double your space. The process is reasonably straightforward. Visit the upgrade forum.
> *


I just visited the upgrade forum, and unfortunately they tell me that my type of TiVo (series 2 80 hours) is designed to only hold one drive. They say there's risk of excessive heat and overtaxing the power supply if I try to add a second drive. There's the option of replacing, rather than adding, but then I won't get as much space. I wonder how large a drive I could put in there and what it would cost.

Also, the installation instructions look pretty complicated. I have installed hard drives and RAM memory, but that's about the extent of my computer hardware expertise. (I am an applications programmer, though.) I'm wondering how hard this upgrade would be.


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## stevel

Installation is easy - if you can install a hard drive in a PC. I suggest you visit www.weaknees.com for info on upgrade kits, including brackets and a fix for the power supply problem.


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## Thom

If you don't mind getting a Series 1 TiVo, try http://www.servicedvr.com/Extra/BuyExtraTivo.asp for an inexpensive standalone.

I recommend getting the HDR112; then buy a mounting bracket for a 2nd drive from http://www.9thtee.com/tivomtgbracket.htm; then buy and install a 2nd drive.

- Thom


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## martinp13

Yes, I know a second TiVo is expensive, but probly cheaper than a divorce.  Kidding of course, but I think it would help.

Frankly, KUID should only be used when it's a one-shot show or series that you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO SEE. If a show with a (!) gets deleted eventually, guess what: you didn't care enough about the show to watch it.  It took me a while to realize this, but a few forced deletions made me realize that I didn't _really_ care that the shows had been deleted! 

One thing you might try is to get her to *watch one show/episode a night*, and you watch it with her, even if you've seen it or don't care about it. Maybe right before bed, or at least after the kiddo is down for the night. Given the nature of TiVo, you can clear out a series at a time rather than have to jump around.


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## FlashStash

> _Originally posted by edrock200 _
> *Throw a 120gb drive AT HER to add to your 80gb. *


That's how I read this the first time...that might work too! ;D

FS


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## joekarglo

No, No, No! You guys are missing the forest looking at the trees. It is not acceptable to let Tivo rule your life by forcing you to watch more tv to "catch up." Tivo lets us rule the world of tv. All any hard drive is supposed to do is make sure there are plenty of your favorite shows available any time, day or night and especially on weekends. If it erases some unwatched, it is only to replace them with other good stuff. Relax!


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by joekarglo _
> *No, No, No! You guys are missing the forest looking at the trees. It is not acceptable to let Tivo rule your life by forcing you to watch more tv to "catch up." Tivo lets us rule the world of tv. All any hard drive is supposed to do is make sure there are plenty of your favorite shows available any time, day or night and especially on weekends. If it erases some unwatched, it is only to replace them with other good stuff. Relax! *


But I have a problem with your statement. First let me update you all on the status with my wife. She has started making progress watching her shows and deleting them. (Sigh of relief) But, now that she's seen her newfound space, she has increased her rate of finding new shows to record. Fortunately, many of these are not KUID. (Sigh of relief). But some are KUID, and as I speak, I'm again within a couple of hours of losing my TiVo space, because almost everything on it (minus a couple of hours) is being taken up with KUID shows. (Gasp of horror).

So my problem with your post is that if the TiVo gets filled up with KUID, that means it won't record anything, and once I've seen all my stuff, I'll have to nothing to watch any on TiVo! (Gasp of horror.) The TiVo in effect, will be useless to me until she deletes some KUID.

The problem is, she's developed this hobby that I don't completely empathize with. She likes to record all sorts of classic movies (i.e. movies that might be old, but in her opinion, are really good), and then archive them to VHS. She doesn't always keep up with her job of taping them off though. (I'm sure our house has in excess of 100 VHS tapes as I speak.) However, the majority of the KUID is still just current series that she's trying to keep up with.

I'm tending to think if I upgrade, it will only delay the problem. The new space could still eventually be wiped out with KUID. So I'm starting to think that two TiVo's might be the best answer. I have a question about this, though: In general, there are three types of recordings re record:

Stuff I want to see
Stuff she wants to see
Stuff we both want to see.

The third category is not a small category, and so how to we negotiate whose TiVo gets this third category? If some goes on mine, and some on hers (i.e. we split it), the stuff that's on mine could conceivably backlog if she doesn't watch it.


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## timckelley

New question. In the meanwhile, I'm thinking I could have a defense to preserve a little bit of the TiVo until the day we get a second. Suppose I take one of my favorite series, and say "Keep at most 2 episodes", and "Keep until I delete". What exactly would this do? If two episodes are already recorded, and a third comes up, will it automatically delete the older of the two and then record the third, so that I'd again have two? If so, this is perfect: I'd always have a recent episode to watch. But this doesn't sound quite right. KUID means don't delete until the user explicitly deletes. So how could Keep at most 2 episodes, coupled with KUID ever delete, even to make room for the new episode? Could somebody explain this functionality to me?


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## skanter

Solution #1: Get a new wife.

Solution #2: Get a 120G upgrade kit from Weaknees and keep the wife.


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## ac3dd

> *Stuff I want to see
> Stuff she wants to see
> Stuff we both want to see.
> 
> The third category is not a small category, and so how to we negotiate whose TiVo gets this third category? If some goes on mine, and some on hers (i.e. we split it), the stuff that's on mine could conceivably backlog if she doesn't watch it. *


For stuff you both want to see, both of you would record it on each of your TiVos, because you won't necessarily watch it at the same time. If you watch it together, delete it from both as soon as you're done.

The problem comes though if you both want to watch it but hers doesn't have space to record it. Then you'll just have to put your foot down, and either she'll have to watch it with you or miss it. If she still can't live with such exceedingly reasonable arrangements, you and she have bigger problems going on than TiVo. But my uneducated guess is that she will be sensible enough to respect that arrangement, especially if you give her the TiVo with the bigger hard drive .


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## tivoman

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *New question. In the meanwhile, I'm thinking I could have a defense to preserve a little bit of the TiVo until the day we get a second. Suppose I take one of my favorite series, and say "Keep at most 2 episodes", and "Keep until I delete". What exactly would this do? If two episodes are already recorded, and a third comes up, will it automatically delete the older of the two and then record the third, so that I'd again have two? If so, this is perfect: I'd always have a recent episode to watch. But this doesn't sound quite right. KUID means don't delete until the user explicitly deletes. So how could Keep at most 2 episodes, coupled with KUID ever delete, even to make room for the new episode? Could somebody explain this functionality to me? *


Hello there,

It wouldn't record the third show, you have to set it to "Keep Until Space Needed" then It will do what you said in your post. It will record the most recent two episodes. I do this with the morning and evening news where it only keeps one episode until the next showing.

Good luck,
TiVoMan


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## jautor

This (at best) will only temporarily solve space issues, but I've used the technique several times when going on vacation... 

If you've got movies or other programs that tend to get repeated (e.g. cable shows, movies, etc.), you may be able to re-record the same thing in the future - basically freeing up some space for a few weeks. 

For instance, I had quite a number of movies recorded from HBO sitting in Now Playing. I was going to be gone for a week, and the ToDo List showed me that several things in NP would be deleted by the time I got back (I always leave suggestions turned on, as that's an easy way to judge how much actual space is left - works better on the DirecTiVo, but anyway...). So I took a look through Now Playing, and picked out the longest programs (most disk space consumed), and did a title search. Lo and behold, there was the same movie(s) in the schedule, with showings out almost two weeks from now. Easy decision - I'm not going to watch it this week, and so I deleted the movie, and scheduled it to record again - using the airtime that was out the furthest in the future... 

I was able to repeat the process several times, and managed to free up 10-15 hours of space, with the same movies back on the TiVo two weeks later. No missed shows while I was on vacation, and nothing deleted that I intended to watch... (Oh, yeah, I've already upgraded, and of course, the TiVo is *still* full of stuff I want to watch - eventually)...


Jeff


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## TampaThunder

Now understand timckelley that my last name is also Kelley so you must be family and I wouldn't make such a unique suggestion unless we were related so here goes:

There was this post just last week - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...tid=1206630&highlight=wife+delete#post1206630 - where pinion8d complains that his wife deletes everything. Get a hold of him and offer a trade.  :up:


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## rtype

I have the same sort of problem, only it's all me. 

Here's how I'm addressing my problem.

1. I have an upgrade planned to 240 hours. I've seen you guys say this just delays the problem, but read the other steps first. The main things having so many hours will allow me to do are:
a. keep my movies/specials until I have time to watch them
b. record all of a series I intend to watch in order until I get the episodes I'm missing (in my case, I want to watch Sopranos beginning to end)

2. Pick the shows I absolutely want to watch, set them to record all and keep until I delete. For me, this is only three shows: Enterprise, South Park and CSI, so I'm not likely to get a big backlog here.

3. Other shows I want, set to keep 5 at most and delete as space is needed. This allows me to grab shows in syndication like The Simpsons and just watch them as it's convenient. If it deletes one I haven't seen before I get to it, no big--I'll have 4 others recorded at any given time and I'll delete the ones I know I have seen (or don't want to see again) as soon as I have time to mess with Tivo again. If the order doesn't matter and they're being run in syndication, all you really want here is to be able to watch one whenever you feel like it--this solves that problem.

Chances are you've got some stuff in category 2 that you can bump the priority down to category 3 there.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by skanter _
> *Solution #1: Get a new wife.
> 
> Solution #2: Get a 120G upgrade kit from Weaknees and keep the wife. *


I read where it's kind of difficult to upgrade 80 hour series 2 without replacing (as opposed to adding) a hard drive. So it become more expensive, and I don't think I can even so much as double my space. (If what I've read is right.)


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by tivoman _
> *Hello there,
> 
> It wouldn't record the third show, you have to set it to "Keep Until Space Needed" then It will do what you said in your post. It will record the most recent two episodes. I do this with the morning and evening news where it only keeps one episode until the next showing.
> 
> Good luck,
> TiVoMan *


Well, darn! That means if the hard drive fills up with KUID and then I have KAM=2 with KUSN, that means that before the 3rd episode comes up, my space becomes vulnerable to one my wife's KUID episodes on the To Do list. I.e. my space could get confiscated by my wife's list. So this solution idea of mine is not very good.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by ac3dd _
> *For stuff you both want to see, both of you would record it on each of your TiVos, because you won't necessarily watch it at the same time. If you watch it together, delete it from both as soon as you're done.
> 
> *


I've approached my wife on this subject, and she thinks it's a waste to record the same show on both TiVos. She thinks that since it's using up twice the amount of HD space it could if it were just on one TiVo, that that's a waste. But she's not 100% close-minded on this. She further has suggested that category 3 be put on my TiVo. I'm hoping she was joking... I guess I'll ask her to explain that comment. Afterall, if I tend to watch things earlier than she, it would make sense to put category 3 on hers, because then I could watch it quick, and then I wouldn't be bottlenecking her with regards to holding up the release of space. Conversely, should quite conceivably bottleneck me, if category 3 were on my TiVo. Of course, there's another problem with putting category 3 on her TiVo: If she fills up her TiVo, it could stop recording new episodes, which could impact me in sitations like "Enterprise", and other shows where I don't want to miss any episodes. Putting it on both TiVos is starting to make sense to me.


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## ac3dd

Putting mutually desired programs on both does use up some more space, but it solves many of the conflicting scenarios. Remember that once the first one of you watches a program, it gets deleted from that particular box so it's not as if it's taking up double the space forever. And if you watch it together, deleting it frees up twice the space . If you put the commonly wanted shows on just one box, you're back to the original problem again.

Similarly, having two cars instead of one will cost you more in gas and insurance (in addition to the obvious cost of the car itself), but if the scheduling and locations of your workplaces and other activities are quite disparate, the extra car goes a long way in reducing the location and timing conflicts.


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## gobiewankenobi

Not to sound archaic, but give her a good vcr. It sounds like her viewing habits would be better supported by that than the Tivo. 
1. It sounds like she knows what she wants to tape.
2. She pretty much knows when it's on.
3. She doesn't have the time to watch it right away.
4. She plans on putting the shows on tape anyway.
Keep the stuff you want to watch and both of you want to watch on the Tivo.
JAS


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## Zirak

Switch wives with the guy over in this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118564&highlight=wife+delete


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by gobiewankenobi _
> *Not to sound archaic, but give her a good vcr. It sounds like her viewing habits would be better supported by that than the Tivo.
> 1. It sounds like she knows what she wants to tape.
> 2. She pretty much knows when it's on.
> 3. She doesn't have the time to watch it right away.
> 4. She plans on putting the shows on tape anyway.
> Keep the stuff you want to watch and both of you want to watch on the Tivo.
> JAS *


No, actually my wife has good points about why she likes TiVo better than VCR.

1. Often the VCR misses her show due to last minute program changes
2. She can more easily control which shows, and in which order they go on tape. She likes to put similar things on the same tape. I suppose she could keep her tapes labled, so she'd know which tape to put in for recording, but that doesn't solve the ordering problem within a tape.
3. If a tape runs to the end (which heppens more than you'd think) during a recording, she'd be out of luck if it wasn't on TiVo. With TiVo she can restart the show and put in a new tape.
4. Some shows she really intends to watch and not put to tape.... she just hasn't gotten around to it.


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## saintpuhn

these recordings are movies? netflix?


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by saintpuhn _
> *these recordings are movies? netflix? *


Some are movies; some are series.


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## teknikel

Anything you want to see you should record on yours. You won't run out of space as soon as she would. And you have more control of what you want to watch. If you guys have more than 40 hours of stuff you both want to watch and you have 40 hrs of stuff just you want to watch, then lord help you.

kel


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## gschoen

Can this thread really have gone on this long??? Don't use KUID at all - whatever is oldest will be deleted when space is needed. If you haven't watched it yet, you were probably watching programs that were more desirable to you instead. And if it does get deleted, oh well. It's TV, that's why we have reruns. The Tivo is supposed to make TV revolve around your schedule, not you around TVs. I don't ever expect to watch most of the 130 hrs currently on my Tivo. If you don't have time to watch all the programs it's probably because you have a life and something better to be doing and should be happy. You can take satisfaction every time Tivo deletes something that it's validating you have a life other than TV. Perhaps for every 100 deletions, you can throw a "I have a life other than TV party."

Okay just kidding. But does your wife really thing she'll ever be able to watch all those 100s of video tapes? If this is a big issue between you then look out for what's to come!


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## timckelley

I have not been able to talk my wife out of using KUID. She really does think she'll eventually see all the old recordings - that or offload them to tape. By the way, even though it's an 80 hour TiVo, that's at basic quality. The time length goes way down for higher qualities. As for, does she think she'll see all 100 video tapes? Possibly not, but everything that sits on TiVo, she either wants to see or offload. But she won't say when she'll do it, because of the other things that keep her busy. Therefore: KUID. She stands by that decision.

By the way, our suggestions folder now hovers around zero, because of how filled up our TiVo is. And only a few shows sit without KUID (mostly mine). The good news is, when I come downstairs to watch TiVo late at night, and find no suggestions to watch, nor any new episodes of my limited list, often I can find one of my wife's shows to entertain me. (Our tastes have some overlap.) At least my wife's list of shows has not stagnated, because she is watching/offloading/deleting.... it's just that her ToDo list replaces what she deletes fairly promptly, not leaving me much room for any To Do list of my own.


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## Thom

You're not going to be able to change your wife's habits in this.

Either buy yourself your own TiVo, or buy one for her.

Regarding shows you both want to see, just make a simple rule: The TiVo "owner" decides how long the show stays on their TiVo.

Thus, in the case of a mutual show recorded on your TiVo, it will stay on the TiVo until either (a) both of you have watched it and then manually deleted it, or (b) the TiVo software automatically deleted it (to free space), even though she hadn't gotten around to watching it yet. (If you are in the habit of keeping your Now Playing List well-pruned, this would mean she had several days or weeks to sit down and watch it.)

Separate TiVos will keep things running smoothly, and that's worth a lot.

You can buy a refurbished Series 1 (with warranty and all accessories) for $90, and it can mount two hard drives.

- Thom


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by Thom _
> *You're not going to be able to change your wife's habits in this.
> 
> Either buy yourself your own TiVo, or buy one for her.
> 
> You can buy a refurbished Series 1 (with warranty and all accessories) for $90, and it can mount two hard drives.
> 
> - Thom *


Where would I find this? Is ebay a good place to shop? What downfalls are there for the series 1 software vs. the series 2 software? I guess the big expense will be paying the monthly service twice. Somehow it doesn't seem fair that I should have to pay twice for the same guide data be loaded on two machines in the same house.


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## Glen Graham

Tim...

Sadly, and I hate to sound mean and phrase it like this, but your wife appears to have both control and hoarding issues.

She is controlling because she is steadfastly refusing to "share" the capacity on the drive. This is demeaning -- and if you refused to let her use the one family car (to go get her hair cut) because you might want to drive it around block later... *SHE* would consider that abuse.

Secondly, as more space was freed up, she hoarded it by setting more things to record.

Then, she has those one hundred or so tapes.

So, in a nutshell, your wife needs help. You're right - increasing capacity will not help, she'll hoard more and become more obsessive.

If/when you get your own TiVo, she will fill hers up, and see space on yours -- and then either set some stuff to record on yours, or complain to you that *YOU* are being mean and unfair to *HER* (because you have extra space and are not sharing).

Sorry again to sound harsh.

In the meantime, divide the capacity of your TiVo in two. Each of you gets to schedule *ONLY* enough recordings to fill your half. Fair? Yes. Will she agree? Not a chance in hell -- because (see above), *she is not respecting you or your right to use the TiVo EQUALLY*.

If anything is for you two to share, you each deduct half from your share of the capacity. *IF* you have to put it all in "your share", then you are 100% allowed to delete it the moment you watch it.

Lastly, her setting everything to KUID and hoarding to tape... is very very indicative of problems that undoubtedly go beyond the scope of this forum. Either she has some unspoken grudge against you (thus she refuses to share), or she has an obsessive-compulsive disorder (making her feel the urge to hoard) that she cannot keep in check and should honestly consult professional help for.

Lastly, she is not entirely to blame -- you are enabling her by not standing up and insisting on your fair share of the use of the TiVo.

Perhaps you would benefit if the TiVo "broke" and had to be sent back for repair (a couple of weeks)... harsh, but might help open her eyes to her obsessive-compulsive disorder.


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## Glen Graham

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Where would I find this? Is ebay a good place to shop? What downfalls are there for the series 1 software vs. the series 2 software? I guess the big expense will be paying the monthly service twice. Somehow it doesn't seem fair that I should have to pay twice for the same guide data be loaded on two machines in the same house. *


On the other hand, to answer your questions:

eBay is, by and large, good. Often you can find units that already have a "lifetime" agreement.

Series 1 units are "stuck" on the last level of software -- no Home Media, no "Folders"... but other than that, work just fine. They have the advantage of being easily upgradable to 2 drives -- any 2 you want (so if it comes with a 30, you can add an extra 120 GB instead of having to replace it).

Let you wife have that unit, since it can easier hold more capacity.

Paying twice... get Lifetime, or consider it a small cost for a marriage. Bump your cable down a notch if you need to to save money.


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## Thom

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Where would I find this? Is ebay a good place to shop? What downfalls are there for the series 1 software vs. the series 2 software? I guess the big expense will be paying the monthly service twice. Somehow it doesn't seem fair that I should have to pay twice for the same guide data be loaded on two machines in the same house. *


www.servicedvr.com

(link also mentioned in my first reply in this thread)


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## martinp13

Tim, I have something you can use soon.


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## timckelley

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I was pretty surprised just now when I visited weaknees.com . It seems that things have changed in the last month or so regarding upgradabiltity of TiVo series 2 - 80 hours.

I was initially turned off from this idea because of the weak power supply and cramped quarters for holding two hard drives in my model, but it looks like recent developments have licked this problem. Their upgrade kits include a device for staggering the startup times for the two drives, allowing the weaker power supply to be sufficient, and also cooler, quieter fans to keep the two drives cool, despite their close proximity. They say it'll even be cooler than my one drive currently is! 

Now, I'm having a hard decision. I was leaning towards a his and her TiVo to solve our problems, but it looks like upgrading is a lot cheaper. For $209, plus $19 extra if I want the advanced cooling pak, I can add a 120 G to my current setup. This would give me almost 63 hours Best Quality, or almost 229 hours basic quality. (I'm assuming this includes the time on my current HD, but I'm not completely sure about that. Even greater if it's in addition!)

If I get a separate TiVo, it sounds like I need to spend at least $90 to get an old series 1 with not much space, plus $299 for a lifetime contract, plus more $ to upgrade it. (Unless somebody out there is willing to sell me a series 1 already with LifeTime for a really low price.)

I'd like to save $ and do an upgrade, but I'm kind of afraid my wife could fill this up to. Before I do this, I would need a plan/agreement between my wife and I... some way for her not to infringe on my half on the TiVo space. I wonder how doable that is?


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## janry

Three Steps:

(1) Upgrade existing TiVo and tell wife it is all hers.
(2) Buy yourself a new TiVo.
(3) Upgrade your new TiVo.

You can never have enough TiVo.


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## Glen Graham

Not sure what the final price is (auction ends in 2 days), but currently a 14-hour Series 1 *with lifetime* is $210 on e-bay

Click here

It is worth about $350, so it may yet be a decent deal (you can stick any old drive in it instead of the 15-GB that is there)

There is also another one with a "Buy It Now" for $399


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## abobrow

Dear Tivo Community-

Please help me avoid solving a problem in my marriage. My wife puts the thermostat at one setting but I want it at a different setting. Help! What should I do??

Are there thermostats that can keep a house at two different temperatures at the same time? If so, where do I get them? Is there another way of measuring the warmth of a house, besides using temperature? Please help!!!


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## rtype

> _Originally posted by abobrow _
> *Dear Tivo Community-
> 
> Please help me avoid solving a problem in my marriage. My wife puts the thermostat at one setting but I want it at a different setting. Help! What should I do??
> 
> Are there thermostats that can keep a house at two different temperatures at the same time? If so, where do I get them? Is there another way of measuring the warmth of a house, besides using temperature? Please help!!! *


Dear abobrow

Remind your wife that when she entered into the institution of marriage, she agreed to two understood principles. The first principle states that a woman shall not have possession or otherwise seek to restrict the usage of her husband's television remote control. The second states that a woman shall not adjust, tamper with or otherwise impede her husband's ability to set the thermostat.

Because these principles are understood and were perhaps not explicitly stated in your marriage agreement, many women have come to the conclusion that this agreement is by and large unenforcable. If she brings this to your attention, remind her that she did agree to these conditions of marriage whether they were explicitly stated or not. Also, you may remind her that if she chooses to continue to ignore this warning that you may choose to ignore two or more of the conditions of marriage which you agreed to that she may also find unenforcable.

If she understands the implication of your warning and chooses to suspend her interference with your operation of the television remote control and thermostat, you may, if you choose, decide to provide her with a gift of a blanket or a quilt kit in lieu of jewelry or other gift items at your next occasion.

Good luck with retraining your spouse. Remember that if things don't work out, newer models are available.


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## abobrow

Actually it was a joke, but thanks for your opinions.


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## rtype

> _Originally posted by abobrow _
> *Actually it was a joke, but thanks for your opinions. *


Whew, I'm glad you told me. My response was completely serious.


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## abobrow

Okay, I get it now. Sorry I mistook you for one of the people who are actually trying to solve this guy's problem. Irony is a tricky thing in print.


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## TiVoPrince

When you get to 9 TiVos (700 hours) and two viewers, the problems just sort of disappear.


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## Thom

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> .
> .
> .
> Now, I'm having a hard decision. I was leaning towards a his and her TiVo to solve our problems, but it looks like upgrading is a lot cheaper.
> .
> .
> .
> I'd like to save $ and do an upgrade, but I'm kind of afraid my wife could fill this up to. Before I do this, I would need a plan/agreement between my wife and I... some way for her not to infringe on my half on the TiVo space. I wonder how doable that is? *


Your wife's habits are not going to change. If she would/could, she already would have done so. Once you've upgraded your single TiVo, it just allows her to wait longer before watching her shows.

The only true solution to this is his and her TiVos. Note that once her TiVo fills up, she will want to begin using *your* TiVo. For peace in the family, allow her to do that, but insist that none of her shows be Keep Until I Delete. If she doesn't watch them/save them before they expire, well, she had her chance. And make sure all your shows are KUID, so that her shows don't bump your shows.

Upgrading your single TiVo is just delaying the inevitable.

- Thom


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## jsharper

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> * plus $299 for a lifetime contract,*


Might I highly suggest switching to DirecTV and going the DirecTiVo combo route... $5/mo service fee covers all the tivos you have. and there are no quality settings since it saves the digital bitstream verbatim from the satellite.... so if you upgrade to 100 hrs, you actually get close to 100 hours at "perfect" quality.


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## HeatherA

We've worked this out in my house. 2 adults, 1 teen, 1 pre-teen very different viewing habits.

I have a 109 hour Tivo in my office/family room that I am in charge of. No one is allowed to mess with it except me. They may watch, but they may NOT delete anything. (Cable/Sat)

We have a 101 hour Tivo in the living room that the kids can set up season passes on as well as some from husband. All 3 have complete control over this and have had to figure out common courtesys to make sure they don't step on each others toes (Cable/Sat)

We have a 40 hour ReplayTV in the bedroom that we picked up for a song and use for backup and a few of husbands shows. Husband and I are the only ones that mess with this one. (Cable Only)

Works well and most everyone is happy. The only problems we run into are the kids fighting over who has the most season passes.

It's complicated but it works and we're a happy TV viewing family


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## Azure

I'm in agreement with pretty much everyone else here. Your wife is not going to change. One TiVo is NOT going to solve your problems, no matter HOW many hours of capacity it has. Two TiVos is the only solution. And I agree, let her record on your TiVo, with the rules being all of her shows are a lower priority than yours, none of them can be KUID, and none of them can be Keep All. Surely you see that this is the only way. How can you convince yourself that upgrading your existing TiVo will work? You freed up space on your TiVo and she saw the extra space and added more shows to her To Do List. It really is too bad you don't have DirecTiVos though. We have 6 for 4 people to use. One of them with 220 hours. At a cost of $700 total.


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## smark

SHE'S STILL ALIVE?!


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## allan

I agree. One Tivo, no matter how big, is just postponing the problem. His & hers IS more expensive, but it sounds like the only option.


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## Joey303

Another TiVo? I don't think it's the answer.

I totally identify with the wife. Mind you, I don't side with her, but I can identify with her. And, as someone with her precise habits, I've got to admit that it's a symptom of a deeper personality problem and could probably benefit from some help. 

Maybe she would benefit from watching Oprah or Dr. Phil, if she's not really interested in tackling the problem with a professional. Actually, she's probably TiVo-ing those shows already  Oprah recently did a show on de-cluttering your house (and your life), which encouraged me to rent a dumpster and do the same. It's a good feeling . . . and a small start. Use this TiVo problem to work on the larger issue. Together. When all is said and done, she'll feel better about this letting-go of this KUID craziness . . . and better about herself, too. And, with a little nudging from you to help her get started, your relationship may improve, too. I know that I'm very grateful for the push and the support that I received.

Or, just buy another TiVo.


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## Sleestak

Tell her the Tivo had an "accident".


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## mclark11

THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH TIME TO WATCH EVERYTHING. I ALMOST HAD THE SAME PROBLEM TO MYSELF. I'VE DECIDED THAT it's better to live a life they catch up to tivo. So instead of watching more to catch up, I'm watching LESS.
The solution is get a life. In fact the reason she can't catch up is cause she has a life. Just tell her to forget what she's missing, cathing up on garbage is not worth missing on life. (And I mean that because you're probably seeing the good stuff and puttin off the garbage because it's not really worth watching in the first place)


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## NFLnut

> _Originally posted by martinp13 _
> *Get your wife her own TiVo. Seriously, that's what a lot of people have done. *


I agree with this post!

That's what I did three years ago. My wife and I watch a lot of the same things, but she still watches some stuff that I would never watch ("Sense and Sensibility," etc). Some of our suggestions combined were getting a little scary ("Kill the Monster"  ) so I bought her one too.


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## Mars Rocket

> _Originally posted by mclark11 _
> *The solution is get a life. *


"Life"? What is this "life" thing you speak of?


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## robertj49

You should never have shown here the keep until I delete choice. Most of my stuff is just recorded, and if I haven't watched it soon enough I have so much other stuff that I don't even realize it's gone. I'm upgraded to 120 hours, though. Upgrade your unit, and record everything (especially your wife's stuff, so she gets the message!!) at basic. That alone is work a few dozen extra hours, and it's really not that bad for most shows...


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## Rolnikov

We've got a phrase in our house for missed programs: *one in the bank*.

Any episode of a program that you miss is *one in the bank* - because tv is never gone for good - it'll always be repeated, and if you miss an episode of Frasier this week, when you see it in one, two or twenty years' time you'll be thrilled to have a brand new episode.

I see tv as a river, flowing continuously past, and tivo lets us slow down a particular bit of that river, where there's good fishing! But you can't stop the water flowing... try to build a dam and you'll feel the stress.

I would change everything on your tivo to keep until space needed, and let things take their natural course. And every time something has been deleted, say with a cheer: *that's one in the bank!*

Or if you can't countenance that, you need to get rid of the tivo, and the video. Pretend you have gambling debts and need to sell them. Otherwise the stress will kill you both - tv is important!


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## ccwf

> _Originally posted by Rolnikov _
> Any episode of a program that you miss is *one in the bank* - because tv is never gone for good - it'll always be repeated, and if you miss an episode of Frasier this week, when you see it in one, two or twenty years' time you'll be thrilled to have a brand new episode.


 I look forward to the day when this is true, but for now it isn't. Shows which usually don't get repeated every few years include most sports and other live events, series so short-lived they didn't make it into syndication, and special shows like the Buffy Musical episode (which _is_ repeated, but not in its entirety). (Also, currently most repeats of foreign-language series are on $$ channels and not subtitled.)

Anyways, back to the point of the original thread: you need a second TiVo. I myself have a 246+hr TiVo and can assure you that having a bigger TiVo will just delay problems for a while. Eventually, recording habits must change or the same old problems will recur. I myself used KUID/SUID a lot when I first upgraded my TiVo, eventually ran out of space, and was _forced_ to change my own habits. I now KUID less than a handful of shows and manually push back the expiration dates of other important, unwatched shows every few days.


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## mclark11

You can use KUID to your advantage. Record the show but specify only record 1 show (Default is 5), therefore if you don't watch it and delete it, it will no longer record new shows. This will be good for stopping Tivo recording those childrens program. Once you have one, it will stop recording.


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## ThreeSoFar

Multiple TiVos, here, and we love it. All over 100 hours, less actually since we default to High Quality since we have so much space. There's never any fear of losing stuff off the bottom of the list.


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## Raspewtin

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. *


Jeez I have to deal with this also. The get a 2nd Tivo thing is a great idea, unless she thinks that's too much stuff for just watching TV and the better soln is to watch less television and be more productive (as in my case). It's working bit by bit though for me (the muscle atrophy seems to have slowed), so perhaps you'll benefit from this whole thing.


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## macmedic

The only problem I have now that we bought a second TiVo is that I'm stuck in the bedroom watching my shows!!!
Yes I have HMO but it doesn't help when hers is FULL of KUID shows.

To add insult to injury she has also claimed ownership of MY MX-700!

I guess that's the price you pay when you have a tech-savy wife...


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## ThreeSoFar

Then make her upgrade hers so it doesn't fill as easily. And make sure she's using basic quality for shows where that makes sense (talk shows, etc.)


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## Dajad

Suggestion 1: Get her to read this thread and then talk about it like adults!

Suggestion 2: Take the total amount of time you TiVo records ... agree that she can use 50% of that time for whatever she wants and nothing more ... if she uses 50% of the space, you have a right to delete the bottom shows in Now Playing until her used space is back to 50%.

Suggestion 3. Go back to Suggestion 1 and follow it over and over until this is worked out! The most basic skill of any relationship is communication! Great communication takes plenty of practice. It sounds like the you are going to get lots of practice on this topic!

...Dale

P.S. Suggestion 4: If all of the above fail ... ask for a TiVo (for your own personal use) for your next birthday present ... in other words, let her pay for the second TiVo it if she's not willing to be reasonable.


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## timckelley

Well, I suppose I should update my status. I still think I'll get a 2nd TiVo but haven't gotten around to it. For the last couple of months, I haven't had much of a problem, because my wife has finally deleted a lot of her stuff! But the way she did this is by offloading to VCR, rather than to watch it. She buys VHS tapes like crazy these days, and it's starting to take up a lot of room in our TV room. The good news, is the TiVo has lots of space on it now.

But as we speak, the new season has just started, and many, many of our season passes are about to commence finding and recording new shows. The next month will be definitely be a good test of our TiVo watching strategy/ability. Wish us luck! 

For the last few months, I suppose I haven't been terribly bothered by the prospect of losing shows because the TV season was in it's dormant state. But now that September is here, I'll be ticked if one of my shows doesn't get recorded.

As usual, I have no backlog... i.e., there are no shows of mine on the Now Playing that I haven't already watched. I do a lot of late night TiVo watching as my wife sleeps, and so I do a good job of keeping up with it.


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## ThreeSoFar

You need another one.

And you probably need at least one of them to be upgraded to 100+ hours.


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## timckelley

3 Tivos? Out of curiosity, I wonder if there's any 2 person households out there with 3 Tivos.


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## LiveBlues

It's just me and my wife at home and we have 4.


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## Mchero

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Gosh, I'd hate to shell out for a second TiVO, *


Just got an email from Tivo, They are dropping the price thru December!

http://www.tivo.com/2.0.asp

:up:


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## timckelley

Oh no!!! I thought we had it under control. My wife had totally caught up and emptied Now Playing. Now she's gone mad and recorded every Xmas special (including cooking shows that cook Xmas dishes) she could get her hands on, and now Suggestions = 0! Much of our Now Playing is 'Keep Until I Delete', but not all, thankfully. She says she's going to make an effort to clean out this stuff, but I worry that the To Do List may add new Xmas stuff as fast as she can clear it out. Am I doomed?


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## allan

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Am I doomed? *


Yes!


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## martinp13

Hey, it's Xmas time... time to buy her a TiVo of her own. Maybe even the Pioneer so she can record and burn stuff to DVD.  You could leave it with TiVo Basic and use non-recording Wishlists on your other TiVo to alert you to things to manually record on the Pioneer.


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## djbrown

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Am I doomed? *


Tell her you are Jewish and the Christmas programming offends you.


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## machem

Have you bought another one yet! Isn't it worth $300 not to have this hanging over your head? We broke down and bought one (our first) this weekend, and even though we can't afford it (like anything else), we did it, and we're excited.

It is true I just sat down and read this whole thread, but I have to say that if it has been going on for this long, and you are still stressed about it, the additional time you will add to your life by not being stressed will be well worth it.


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## JYoung

You're *still* dealing with this???? 

It's been *six months*!!!!

The way I look at this, here are your choices:

 Get another TiVo.
 Upgrade your current one.
 See a marriage counselor as you and your wife have communication issues.
 File for divorce and sue for custody of the TiVo.


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## BadTVAddict

Not more Tivo time, but more time to watch it!

Reading the comments, it's so obvious how male dominated this forum is. Why is your wife so far behind? And why are you so caught up? Perhaps if you could take care of some of the kid duties, or even maybe clean up a bit and give her say an hour or two a day to catch up on her Tivo, then this issue would magically evaporate.

And you might even discover that since she's less stressed AND you're helping out, she might be much nicer person to live with and there might be some additional rewards for you.

Just a female perspective.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by BadTVAddict _
> *Not more Tivo time, but more time to watch it!
> 
> Reading the comments, it's so obvious how male dominated this forum is. Why is your wife so far behind? And why are you so caught up? Perhaps if you could take care of some of the kid duties, or even maybe clean up a bit and give her say an hour or two a day to catch up on her Tivo, then this issue would magically evaporate.
> *


That's not the case here. Just about all the time I spend at home during the day (when I'm not at work) is either playing with my son or doing housework. (Since he's only 4 and autistic, it's best that we not let him play by himself for too long.) The only time I get to watch TV is late at night after everybody's asleep. Sometimes I even wake up at 3:00 am, watch TiVo for an hour or two, then go back to sleep. My wife doesn't have a job, and the main times she gets to watch TiVo are while my son is in school, or for the couple of hours or so in the evening starting with my son's bath time (I give him his bath, and continue to play with him until bedtime).

Now admittedly, while my son is in school, my wife is mostly cleaning the house - that's part of the problem of her lack of time. Howver, a *big* problem is that her list of SPs is way, way bigger than mine.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by JYoung _
> *You're still dealing with this????
> 
> It's been six months!!!!
> 
> *


Here's why it's drug on for so long. My wife finally get aggressive and over time I saw Now Playing shrinking and shrinking. At one point, it actually became empty. For quite awhile, our available unused space was quite large. So it appeared everything was under control. We also had been buying and/or wanting to buy several other items, so an upgrade was never high on the priority list for the last 6 months. It's just in the last couple of weeks our space has gotten dangerously low, and for the last few days, we've actually hit the end: i.e., all space is used up.

Now, I feel kind of sorry for her because she's being impacted by this more than I, because after our talk a half a year ago, she seems to realize the importance of not making everything KUID. We still have a lot of KUID, but there's also a certain amount of KU <date> and KUSN. She's living right on the edge right now, because for the last couple of days, she's been deleting/watching at exactly the same pace as the To Do List has been been recording new stuff. She's in imminent danger of having her shows deleted. I'm staying on top of my stuff, and there is absolutely none of my shows sitting there because I try to watch them very quickly after they record. The good news is that TiVO will delete the oldest stuff first, so as long as I watch my stuff within a couple of days after recording, I'm fine - I won't lose anything. But my wife has a lot of old stuff on Now Playing... so this means that she is the one at risk of losing shows. This is why I feel sorry for her. We're starting to talk about upgrading again, but she wants to make it past Xmas season first because of all our Xmas expenses we're incurring at the moment.

Last night I just watched a one hour show of mine and deleted, and as an extra help, I deleted one episode of SouthPark from the To Do list, because it's an episode I've already seen.


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## Marco

> _Originally posted by BadTVAddict _
> *Why is your wife so far behind? And why are you so caught up? Perhaps if you could take care of some of the kid duties, or even maybe clean up a bit and give her say an hour or two a day to catch up on her Tivo, then this issue would magically evaporate.
> 
> And you might even discover that since she's less stressed AND you're helping out, she might be much nicer person to live with and there might be some additional rewards for you.*


Wow. Just like the 'what the neighbor said to my wife' thread in Happy Hour. It is amazing what people will presume to know about a stranger, and the advice they will proffer, completely unasked.

Like I said in that thread, I suspect the speaker is projecting her own issues.


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## JYoung

I'm sorry, Tim. 
I didn't realize that your son is autistic so that does put a slightly different spin on your wife's behavior. I see more as to why she is saving shows for your son.
So strike option 3 for now. Number 4 was only made in jest anyways......


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by JYoung _
> *I'm sorry, Tim.
> I didn't realize that your son is autistic so that does put a slightly different spin on your wife's behavior. I see more as to why she is saving shows for your son.
> *


Well, actually I really never saw the need for her saving shows for him - certainly not in the quantity she's done. Because by the time he's old enough to appreciate them, I'm sure there'll be other shows on he can watch. Anyway, currently the shows she's TiVoing aren't for him, they're for herself. This collecting of shows seems to be a compulsive hobby of hers, and she's already come right out and proclaimed that she's addicted to TiVo. Oh well, there are lots of more expensive hobbies than collecting shows.


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## TivoFan

> _Originally posted by dgh _
> *Have you tried running the math by her? ie time to catch up = hours recorded / (average hours available to watch TV each night - average hours of "important" stuff TiVo records each night). Is the denominator even positive?  *





> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *I take it you're not married, if you are offering such a suggestion seriously.  *


 That's the best laugh I've had all day.


> _Originally posted by steuert _
> *If you must humor her*


 I'm guessing you're not married.

Taking the above into account, I'm going to make some stupid suggestions.

You're wife is a packrat. The fact is that there is more tv out there than she can ever watch. She's got to face up to that. Once you do though, you'll find that instead of 1000 hours of good tv, you can narrow it down to 20 hours of excellent tv.

Seriously, if you have all those tapes of old movies, I suspect that she is not watching them. They replay those old movies all the time. Why not suggest that she wait to record any more of them until she runs low on some of the ones that she has taped? She can always record them next month or the month after. If she is serious about watching them, then this will work. If, as I suspect, she isn't then she'll end up not watching the tapes and you won't have to worry about her recording any more of em. And it would force her to a core realization.... there's no point recording a show you never get around to watching. (P.S. is she planning a month long sabbatical in the near future when she will have a lot more time to watch tv than she does now? If she can't watch everything she has now, it's doubtful she'll ever have more time in the future.)

The other option is to get her to agree to some form of a budget. Figure out how many hours you guys have available on your Tivo and divide it between the two of you. If she goes over that number of hours, then she needs to delete some shows. If she can't agree to this, then she's got to admit that she's not being fair to you.


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## Dadorama

Listen, after reading through this WHOLE thread, I feel like we need to see a picture of you folks, or have your address to send you a Christmas Card or SOMETHING. 

I feel like myself, and everyone around me has been cleansed through a form of group therapy.

I feel strangely like going out and buying another Tivo....

Merry Christmas everyone. And lets none of us take ourselves or our lives too awful serious! When problems like this are our most pressing, we are indeed truly blessed.

Agreed?

Dadorama


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## JustAllie

After reading the whole thread, I'm thinking your wife should buy _you_ a new TiVo.

Of course that's not going to happen, so save up and buy one for yourself. Put a big sign on it saying "Tim's TiVo - do not touch!" Make sure you don't record anything on her TiVo -- that would only give her ammunition to claim space on your TiVo.

If you record anything on your TiVo that you both like to watch, fine -- but if you've watched it and she hasn't, you have every right to delete it with no notice. After all, it's on YOUR TiVo.

I used to be a VHS packrat like your wife, but there's little harm in letting her horde VHS tapes. Unless of course they pile up too much and become a health hazard. 

After I owned a TiVo (actually two TiVos) for a while, I realized that my VHS collection was taking up a lot of space and wasn't getting watched anymore, so I gave the tapes away. I feel so free now.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by JustAllie _
> *I used to be a VHS packrat like your wife, but there's little harm in letting her horde VHS tapes. Unless of course they pile up too much and become a health hazard.
> 
> After I owned a TiVo (actually two TiVos) for a while, I realized that my VHS collection was taking up a lot of space and wasn't getting watched anymore, so I gave the tapes away. I feel so free now.  *


The funny thing is, that not only does she periodically buy new blank tapes, but once in awhile, I come home to find she's bought a new bookshelf for me to put together. After all, something has to hold these tapes.


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## JustAllie

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *The funny thing is, that not only does she periodically buy new blank tapes, but once in awhile, I come home to find she's bought a new bookshelf for me to put together. After all, something has to hold these tapes.  *


I used to have two bookcases totally devoted to videotapes, plus about 8 boxes stacked up in a corner (photocopy paper boxes, to give you an idea of size). To be honest, I still have one bookcase with the videotapes I couldn't quite part with. The boxes, however, are gone -- given away, sold, donated to charity auctions, and a few were even destroyed by water in a hurricane.

Moving three times in two years cured me of the desire to haul around so many videotapes. That and the joy of TiVo -- especially after I upgraded both of my TiVos to ~130 hours each.

You should move to a new home every six months. This will eventually break your wife of her packrat habits.


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## timckelley

Well, despite what I've said earlier in the thread, for the last few months (during which my wife had her Now Playing under control), I've been considering saving money by upgrading instead of getting a second TiVo. But things have changed since then.

1. Last week, I went to look at my weekly episode of Good Morning Miami. It wasn't there!  I checked recording history, and it was 'deleted: not recorded due a SP conflict. A higher priority show recorded instead'. So I checked - how could this be? Good Morning Miami has a rather high priority. It turns out that Scooby Doo Christmas special recorded in it's place. My wife must have scheduled it, and when it asked 'Okay to *not* record Good Morning Miami?', she said yes, knowing full well it was one of our important SPs. So I confronted her, and she admitted doing the deed and knowing what she was doing when she did it. She had decided that she wanted that Xmas special  

Upgrading the TiVo won't fix this problem. Buying a second TiVo will.

2. Sometimes I have trouble scheduling a recording, because her To Do List is so prodigious, and takes up a lot of the 24-clock (sometimes). One time I wanted to record a movie, and luckily there were 6 scheduled showings coming up. 1-5 all had conflicts with her To Do List! Luckily, the 6th showing was free, so I snagged it. But there are other times when a movie doesn't repeat so often, which puts me SOL.

Again, upgrading the TiVo won't fix this problem. Buying a second TiVo will.

3. As a fringe benefit of two TiVos, we can each customize our thumbs ratings to reflect ourselves. Having my own TiVo will give me better suggestions.

Conclusion: we need a second TiVo. Have any of you made this wise recommendation to me as a way to solve my problems?  I just need to wait until Xmas expenses die down before buying one. I'm considering buying a series one, and starting out with no service, just to get started, and I can at least move some of my SPs to it as manual recordings. Then hopefully, I'll eventually add service to it.


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## Mekong

This is a very long post, so maybe I missed it, but it seems no one is addressing home media option. I don't have a series 2, but can't he dump some of that stuff to his computer with home media option??


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## JYoung

Better get it before January 14, otherwise your wife may delete Enterprise from the To Do list....

(On the other hand, she may be doing you a favor......  )


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by Mekong _
> *This is a very long post, so maybe I missed it, but it seems no one is addressing home media option. I don't have a series 2, but can't he dump some of that stuff to his computer with home media option?? *


No, I don't think home media option has been addressed in this post. Are you saying with home media option, I could do some sort of mass/batch archive of my Now Playing to a computer hard disk? But then how could I later get it from hard drive to VCR?


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## DevdogAZ

No, you can't move shows to a PC hard drive with HMO. However, if you did get a second TiVo Series 2 and had HMO, you could move shows between the two units for viewing in another room, etc. From reading this thread, I think timckelley would benefit greatly from a DVD recorder. Your wife could start archiving some of those shows to a format that takes up less storage space and will presumably last longer. However, unless is it a TiVo with built-in DVD-R, it won't solve your scheduling conflicts. For the time being, you can get a relatively inexpensive used Series 1 and use it unsubbed like you mentioned. That's probably the cheapest solution for now.


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## timckelley

Yes, several times I've talked to my wife about switching to DVD instead of VHS. She doesn't seem to think it's that important because she's happy with VHS. (I say, the quality of the picture is pretty subpar on those tapes.) But she really likes the batch-save-to-DVD feature of the Pioneer. But on the other hand, it seems like I read about some sort of editing disadvantages of Pioneer vs standalone burner. Plus, there's the price tag. Isn't it cheaper to buy an old series one and a standalone burner than to buy the combined deal with Pioneer? Also, by buying a la carta, if one component breaks, I just need to fix/replace that component. If Pioneer breaks, I'm in big trouble.


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## DevdogAZ

You just have to decide what is important to you regarding recording and editing on DVD. There are pros and cons to both the PioneerTiVoBurner and a standalone DVD/R. 

Pioneer Pros:
Batch save
Record faster than real time and still use TiVo
Direct digital transfer of data off hard drive
DVD menus are just like a TiVo menu

Pioneer Cons:
Cost
Disc must be finalized every time it is recorded to
No editing capabilities

Standalone Pros:
Less expensive than Pioneer
Limited editing capabilites
Ability to buy burner that works with +/- media
Burn to RW media in multiple sessions

Standalone Cons:
Extra digital to analog conversion
Shows record in real time and tie up TiVo
Menus on DVD vary by burner manufacturer


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## cptodd

> _Originally posted by devdogaz _
> *Standalone Cons:
> Extra digital to analog conversion
> Shows record in real time and tie up TiVo
> Menus on DVD vary by burner manufacturer *


That real time thing was what tipped it for me! The Pioneer is SOOOOOO much more convenient for this reason.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *...she seems to realize the importance of not making everything KUID. We still have a lot of KUID, but there's also a certain amount of KU <date> and KUSN.*


RETRACTION!!! I just checked our TiVo this morning, and except for 1 hour and 30 minutes of suggestions, every bit of it is filled up with her KUID stuff. Fortunately the To Do list contains very little of my stuff, as things are mostly in reruns this week. Today's To Do list contains 1 hour of her stuff, but tommorrow's has 6 more hours of her stuff, so I can see she's still living on the edge. She continues to offload stuff daily, but is barely keeping ahead of the wavefront, like a surfer just in front of the breaking wave.

There's actually a 3 hour movie on there that I recorded, but she changed that to KUID. I don't know if she did that to protect my movie or because she also wants to watch it. (She told me she intends to either watch the movie or offload to tape.)


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by devdogaz _
> *Pioneer Pros:
> Standalone Pros:
> Less expensive than Pioneer
> Limited editing capabilites
> Ability to buy burner that works with +/- media
> Burn to RW media in multiple sessions
> *


Can you explain to me the difference between +/- media and other media?


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## DevdogAZ

The Pioneer TiVo only works with - media, meaning DVD-R and DVD-RW. There are other DVD burners that only uses + media and there are still others that will burn to both types. There is a debate as to which is better and I don't have an opinion on that. I was simply stating that if you want a choice, you have to go with a standalone because the Pioneer will only do -. 

Back to your wife: If she is offloading stuff every day to try and keep ahead of the wave, you really need a new solution. There is no way she's ever going to have time to watch all this stuff and your house is going to be overrun by VHS tapes. The Pioneer burner will save her a ton of time in archiving because she can simply line up a number of shows to go to a DVD and hit record. A little while later it will be done. A standalone DVD recorder will not save any time over the VHS, the only difference is picture quality and storage space. But it sounds to me like you really need to do something soon, or she needs to shake her compulsive habits. I used to be the same way when Seinfeld was still on the air. I made it a goal to get every episode of Seinfeld on tape and I prettymuch did. But those tapes have been in a box in the garage for a few years now and I realistically can't see a time when I will ever pull them out and watch them. My guess is this will be the same iwth most of the stuff your wife has on tape. She'll be comforted to know she has it on tape, but to actually go dig it out when she wants to watch it will be a whole different story. My guess is that 90+% of the stuff she records will never be watched and someday you'll be throwing away a whole boatload of VHS tapes.


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## timckelley

Yes, I told my wife about the batch save feature of Pioneer. To my surprise, she told me it's not a high priority for her because once Xmas is over, she intends to cut way back on her TiVoing of shows. (I'll be interested to see if that actually happens.)

She was also concerned about how much stuff can you put on one disk. Isn't it true that you can put more stuff on one VHS tape than you can put on one DVD disk?

Of course, Pioneer also has the TiVO basic option, which might be an advantage (i.e. money saver) for us, if we can live with having full service on just one TiVo. I suppose I could put wishlists on the one that has full service, in order to prompt me to add recordings to the Pioneer. But somehow I suspect that one day, I'll want to add full service to the Pioneer, if that's what we get.


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## DevdogAZ

Depending on the recording quality you choose, the Pioneer can put up to 6? hours on a DVD, roughly the same as on a VHS tape. If you are happy with the PQ of a VHS tape at 6 hours, you'd probably be fine with the Pioneer at 6 hours too, but some have said that the higher resolution causes more artifacting to appear so that may be an issue. 

If you're going to end up with two TiVos and maybe only subscribe one of them, I would think you would for sure want the Pioneer to be subscribed since it will be the one you can archive from and therefore should be the one doing the lion's share of her recordings. Of course that would mean that your other unit would have to be a pre-1.3 Series 1.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by devdogaz _
> *If you're going to end up with two TiVos and maybe only subscribe one of them, I would think you would for sure want the Pioneer to be subscribed since it will be the one you can archive from and therefore should be the one doing the lion's share of her recordings. Of course that would mean that your other unit would have to be a pre-1.3 Series 1. *


Good point. Darn. I've already got a lifetime sub on my current series 2 TiVo.


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## tmsmalley

Tell her "My Mom would never hog the TiVo with too many KUIDs." (The Mom + hog reference always works!) Then, when she leaves you, make sure she doesn't pack the TiVo!


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## geoman47

Wow! Just read this whole thread. Makes me appreciate my wife even more because she sticks to our KUID rules, which I took for granted!

Weve had our 60 hour TiVo for a little longer than a year, and we discussed getting a 2nd TiVo, but with no discount on a 2nd lifetime sub, its not going to happen. We also talked about upgrading the Hard Drive, which we may do, but really that would just help to watch more movies and archive stuff.

Really what we have done is picked about 2-3 of our favorite shows each. These are the ONLY shows that are allowed to be set to KUID. 2-3 episodes of each favorite show. And we HAVE to respect the limit. Exceptions arent allowed, they can seem like short term good ideas, but always hurt more than they help in the long term.

At basic quality which we can live with, that gives us like around 20 hours MAX of KUID stuff, the rest is fair game. I never thought of it like this until this thread, but we also treat it like Rolnikovs river analogy. That is, if you have time to watch a show fine, if not, it will or something else will flow by.


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## timckelley

Well, this morning she asked me if I was going to watch a SouthPark ep that recorded. I said yes, and so she changed it to KUID. I guess she does this to everything now. She records everything as KUSN, and changes it to KUID once it's in Now Playing. When Enterprise resumes in a couple of weeks, the TiVo *better not* be full! Gosh, I wonder if I'll need a backup plan, like (gasp!) programming our old 20th century VCR to record Star Trek. (covering ears from all the sounds of shocked horror)

I know I know, I'm going to buy a second TiVo. But I borrowed against our retirement (don't worry it was post-tax funds, so no penalty) to pay our property tax, and once I've repaid our retirement funds (which should be soon), I intend to buy a second TiVo.


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## Philosofy

This makes me forgive my wife's little habit. She is a neat freak, and our cordless phone keeps track of who called. She is always clearing that out, making it just a little more difficult to return calls (now I have to look up the number, etc.) What, you say? Program the numbers into the phone? I did that. She erased them. 

She used to clear out the suggestions on our TiVo, too, until I explained they really aren't taking up the space of stuff in the Now Playing or To Do lists.


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## timckelley

I'm now shopping for my second TiVo and am also in the middle of negotiations with my wife on how to manage our two TiVos. She really doesn't like the idea of putting shows we both watch onto both TiVos, and having each of us delete our half when we watch it.

But she did sign on to the idea that I'm allowed to make any of my shows on my TiVo KUID, and if she puts any of her shows on my TiVo, it must be KUSN. Also, if it's a show we both watch, and it's on my TiVo, once I watch it, if she hasn't watched it yet, I have the right to convert it to KUSN.

I can't argue with those terms, because it totally protects my shows to the same degree as if she totally stays off my TiVo. 

But she's already telling me that she wants to put some of her stuff on my TiVo. And it'll be interesting to see if she actually lives up to these terms. I hope that down the road I don't hear her saying "I know I have shows A,B,C..., G on your TiVo, but show E is really important. Can you make that KUID?" Or worse, she walks over and makes it KUID on her own without telling me.


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## Philosofy

Have you thought about upgrading her TiVo? Drop another 120 gig in there, and if she fills it up, tell her tought luck.


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## timckelley

Yes, actually, if either TiVo is to be upgraded, it will be hers. My first priority is to get a second TiVo, though, and eventually we'll probably upgrade hers, probably thru weakknees. I'm thinking of installing the HD myself, but letting them configure it. Who knows? It's possible that the priority of her upgrade could increase if she starts violating the 2-TiVo groundrules.


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## Mike20878

> _Originally posted by Philosofy _
> *This makes me forgive my wife's little habit. She is a neat freak, and our cordless phone keeps track of who called. She is always clearing that out, making it just a little more difficult to return calls (now I have to look up the number, etc.) What, you say? Program the numbers into the phone? I did that. She erased them.
> 
> She used to clear out the suggestions on our TiVo, too, until I explained they really aren't taking up the space of stuff in the Now Playing or To Do lists. *


Hopefully she doesn't try to alphabetize the season passes...


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## mitchb2

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, *


That's an incredibly annoying feature (bug).
It's happened to me before....pretty silly to assume that nothing between now and then will be watched and deleted.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by mitchb2 _
> *That's an incredibly annoying feature (bug).
> It's happened to me before....pretty silly to assume that nothing between now and then will be watched and deleted. *


Yes, I know they want to protect themselves and us by not promising to record something that won't record, but they could at least flash a message: "You show has been added to the To Do List, but it will not be recorded due to lack of space, unless you delete other shows before the show airs on xx/xx".


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## JYoung

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> 
> But she's already telling me that she wants to put some of her stuff on my TiVo. And it'll be interesting to see if she actually lives up to these terms. I hope that down the road I don't hear her saying "I know I have shows A,B,C..., G on your TiVo, but show E is really important. Can you make that KUID?" Or worse, she walks over and makes it KUID on her own without telling me. *


You're really going to stand firm here. Based on past history, once she starts putting her shows on your TiVo, you're done for. 
Soon you'll be in the same position as you were before except her shows will be filling two TiVos and you'll have none.
And getting a third TiVo will be your only option......


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## timckelley

So I wonder if that's why some of the posters here admit to having in excess of 6 TiVos.


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## killzone

You will probably need 3 or 4 tivos. I bought a 2nd Tivo for my wife but she still records all sorts of stuff on my Tivo.


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## timckelley

Well as long as she sticks to her KUSN rule, I won't be impacted by her shows on my TiVo, but of course if she sticks enough of her KUSN stuff on it, she'll start losing shows and then will come the moment of truth. Will she attempt to take action to preserve her shows from deletion, like changing our ground rules (2 TiVo rules), or will she abide by the rules and let her shows die? Well, I wear the pants, and my TiVo is my TiVo!


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## timckelley

Well, things are moving along nicely. With two TiVos we'll need to reorganize our equipment, plus I want to modulate our original TiVo, integrating it with our house's On Q system so that it will be viewable from the entire house, so I'll need a modulator.

I also need more shelves in my entertainment center, and so I bought some wood today from Lowe's and some stain to stain it the same color as my entertainment center. I bought a second VA500 UPS for $20 (normally $60) using discounts I got off of slickdeals.com. I'm about to order my modulator for $55 from worthington.com after I verify I've got a blank channel at home to modulate it onto. I'm currently tracking ebay auctions for a TiVo, or I might buy it from servicedvr.com. I need to go to Radioshack to buy remote extenders, and a couple of A/B switches.

Hopefully before too much longer, I'll be finished and will have joined all you multiple TiVo owners. Just in time too, because some of my SPs are starting to come off from their dormant rerun status.


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## Dr. Thodt

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *after our talk a half a year ago, she seems to realize the importance of not making everything KUID.*


I pray for the day my g/f finally learns this lesson.


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## lajohn27

Somewhere way back in this thread.. I read about SEVEN TiVOs in one house.. and the very first thought in my head wasn't 'why so many' or whatever..

But instead.. how would I remember what TiVO had what Season Pass and forget about watching the Suggestions..


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## JustAllie

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Or worse, she walks over and makes it KUID on her own without telling me. *


If she does this, it's pretty clear that she's saying she doesn't respect you or your things. 

If she tries that, change the groundrules to "My TiVo is My TiVo, Don't Touch!", and delete anything of hers that appears on there. Lock up that TiVo's remote when you're not using it.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by Dr. Thodt _
> *I pray for the day my g/f finally learns this lesson (not making everything KUID). *


Later in this thread, I retracted my statement. My wife is using KUID with gusto. But her SPs and To Dos are all KUSN. Once they they show up in Now Playing, she manually converts all to KUID  I've talked to her about this, but haven't been able to persuade her to change. Well, since I'm about to get my own TiVo, who cares?


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## martinp13

I've really enjoyed reading your thread, Tim, and I hope 2 TiVos helps. You are going to have to stand firm when she comes to you to use some of your space. If you allow her to use any of it (and I personally would say no), her stuff on there MUST be Space Available... no ifs ands or buts! You each set the rules on your own TiVo, and stick by them. Otherwise getting the second TiVo won't solve the problem.


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## timckelley

<dancing>Well, it's been done. The day before yesterday, I just won an ebay auction for my second TiVo! </dancing>

Originally I was just going to get a 60 hour HDRx12 (I forget if x=3 or x=6), but I saw a deal for an HDR212 that has already been upgraded to 194 hours. It had no bids on it, but the starting bid was $200.

I wound up being the only bidder, and so won it at the low price of $200! I figure if I'd of bought an HDR212 from http://www.servicedvr.com/ , I'd have spent $125, and then if I'd have upgraded it to 194 using weakknees, I'd have spent another $199, for a total if $324.

Shipping was $11.90, so I've spent a total of $211.90 as opposed to $324 elsewhere, so I figure I got a good deal. Plus, having all this space is really nice because I can record a bunch of stuff in 'Best Quality' if I like.

I've already talked to my wife, and she's keeping the 80 hour series 2, and I'm getting the 194 series 1, becauase she likes the folders feature of series 2, and more importantly, the series 2 is subbed, and, at least initially, the series 1 won't be subbed.

I figure I can schedule wish lists (but not ARWL) on the series 2, and then use that to find out when stuff is showing, and then manually schedule it on my series one. And I can do this all from one chair because this weekend I also bought a modulator off of ebay which I will use to distribute the series 2 TiVo to the whole house. I got a sweet deal on the modulator too, because I've seen mono modulaters go for anywhere from $80 to $150, and stereo modulators go for $200 to $300. I got a stereo modulator for a little over $33 from ebay.


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## timckelley

Btw, I know my wife needs space more than I, but since I'll be moving my SPs off of her machine, she will see some immediate benefit, spacewise, as well. Still, if she continues to have space problems, I'm still considering upgrading her TiVo, but for now, she feels satisfied with the arrangement. We'll see as time goes how that works out for her.

By the way, she's already started negotiating with me on the space. I've already mentioned earlier that she agrees to make any show of hers that are on my TiVo: KUSN. And SPs that we both watch, I have the right to convert to KUSN after I'm done watching them. But there are two SPs in particular that we both watch, that are more important to her than the others, and she proposes that they go on my TiVo as KUID until she's done watching them. Her argument is that with only 2 SPs being treated this way, I shouldn't be in danger of running out of space on my TiVo.

Is this a good idea? I guess I do feel kind of guilty having more space than her, but like I said before, I'm not opposed to the idea of eventually upgrading her TiVo.


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## martinp13

With 80 hours, I don't see the need to put anything on yours. She's just being a piggy. : oink : For now, I'd say no. If you don't push the baby bird out of the nest, it never learns how to fly. 

You can always change your mind later, if you need to. But I would remind her that this is why you got two TiVos... so she has her space that she can do with as she likes. If she can't manage that, then she needs to learn how to do it.

BTW, I couldn't manage my TiVo, so I got a second one.  Now I do much better scheduling on the two and sending stuff back and forth with HMO. I can record big throwaway shows like wrestling and NASCAR on the bedroom TiVo, freeing up the living room TiVo to record series. If I don't get around to watching the bedroom TiVo stuff, that's cool, and it eventually gets deleted. If I do watch it, I copy it to the living room TiVo and watch it there.


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## RARamaker

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *By the way, she's already started negotiating with me on the space. *


Sounds like you might need a lawyer.

Russ


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## Glen Graham

> _Originally posted by martinp13 _
> *With 80 hours, I don't see the need to put anything on yours*


"80 hours" is not necessarily real-world usable space.

Personally, anything below "high" quality to me is not worth watching - and my favorite shows are all at "best" quality.

So, her 80 hours may be only between about 25 (best) and 50 (medium).

timckelley -- for the amount of work you will do to track suggestions (A/B'ing two TiVos) and then micromanging your TiVo, you will probably spend many many hours per month. All to save $13?

Add to that the fact that broadcast times and lengths are more fluid, and eventually you'll get frustrated because you missed that a show was scheduled 15 minutes later (due to a debate, for example)...

I'd suggest you bite the bullet and subscribe your unit...


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by Glen Graham _
> [Btimckelley -- for the amount of work you will do to track suggestions (A/B'ing two TiVos) and then micromanging your TiVo, you will probably spend many many hours per month. All to save $13?
> 
> I'd suggest you bite the bullet and subscribe your unit... [/B]


Maybe you're right... I was intending on once per week reviewing my pseudo-SPs (actually, nonARWLs) on the subbed TiVo, reviewing the showtimes, and then compare to a list I'll probably have written down on paper to confirm no schedule changes. Of course that means that if a debate is not on the guide until a couple of days before the show, I'll miss the schedule change. Is that normal? Do schedule changes sometimes come with short notice like that?

Of course, if a marathon comes up, then I might want to manually schedule that, too.

And for one time recordings, I'll search for something on the subbed TiVo, and instead of clicking 'select' to schedule it, I'll click on 'View upcoming showings', pick one, A/B over to my TiVo, and do a manual recording. It doesn't sound like it should take that much time/work to do this, but I'll see. If it winds up being a major drag like you say, I'll certainly consider subbing the second TiVo. You very well may be right, because it's nice to have ARWLs automatically enter into your To Do List without any intervention on my part.

On the other hand, with all these 'TiVo is dead or dying' threads, it makes me afraid to do another lifetime sub. Or is lifetime a bad idea for used series one's?


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## JYoung

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> 
> On the other hand, with all these 'TiVo is dead or dying' threads, it makes me afraid to do another lifetime sub. Or is lifetime a bad idea for used series one's? *


There's always been "TiVo is dying" threads. Just FUD at this point.

The real question is will the used Series 1 last more than 2 years?
That's the break even point for a lifetime subscription.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by JYoung _
> *There's always been "TiVo is dying" threads. Just FUD at this point.
> 
> The real question is will the used Series 1 last more than 2 years?
> That's the break even point for a lifetime subscription. *


Good question. If the HD breaks, I could always replace it using weakknees. To replace it with 194 hours would cost slightly more than what I'm paying for this TiVo, so if I had monthly, it would save me a small (pretty small) amount of $ to buy another TiVo off of ebay. Of course, if the HDs last more than 23 months, I'm making a profit (by going lifetime instead of monthly). So it would seem to be a good gamble to get lifetime if HDs are all I'm worrying about, assuming that TiVo corp doesn't die.

But I suppose there are other things that can go wrong (power supply, fan, motherboard, modem). How easily are those things repaired, and how costly are they, and how likely are they to eventually breakdown (within 2 years)? If there's a fair chance of them breaking down within 2 years, would it be cheaper to repair, or buy another TiVo? This factors into the lifetime sub equation.

On the subject of TiVo corp dying, I was just thinking about this, and maybe I shouldn't worry too much about that. Often when a company goes bankrupt, they simply get bought out. If that were to happen, hopefully the buying company would continue to broadcast our guide data.


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## JYoung

The usual things that go bad on a Series 1 TiVo are the hard drive and the modem.
The hard drives are easily replaceable by anyone who's comfortable with working with pc hardware. The modem's tougher but there are ways to get around that. It does pay to make sure your TiVo unit is surge protected.

If TiVo goes out of business, Tivolutionary had hinted in the past that the units would be unlocked to a certain extent but that was a while ago.....


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by JYoung _
> *The modem's tougher but there are ways to get around that. It does pay to make sure your TiVo unit is surge protected.*


Mine will have a UPS on it. Hopefully my modem holds up. It seems I remember reading that a bad modem can be bypassed by hooking it to a home network. While I don't have a home network, I do have a hub in my On Q panel, and cat 5 (I think) lines connecting many rooms together, so I could easily set up a home network. But I have dialup, not broadband, so I'm not sure this set up could work. Oh well, hopefully the modem lasts a long time.


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## timckelley

I have the UPS tracking on my new TiVo and it's scheduled to arrive on Friday! And the seller even tells me she won't withdraw my funds from her paypal account until I test it and tell her that all is well with the new TiVo.

That's good customer service. She even gave me the tracking info without me asking her for it.


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## Glen Graham

For what it is worth, a dead TiVo modem can be gotten around.

1) Install a TurboNet network card and use broadband

2) Have your TiVo use an external hardware modem, like a US Robotics, etc.

My parents' S1 modem died, and they've been using an external USR modem for almost a year now.

Lastly, I would suggest, if you have any computer abilities (hardware), that you merely make a backup of your TiVo operating system yourself. Using the new MFS Tools, this will result in a file that is like 500MB max -- in other words, you can burn it to CD.

Then, if your drive ever died, you merely buy a new drive & "restore" the TiVo operating system onto it, plug it into your box, and away it goes.

Similarly, you can buy a 120 GB drive (or bigger), and transfer your TiVo operating system AND programs from your old drive to a new one -- as long as the new one is bigger than the old (must be bigger by at least one little byte).

Originally, I had added an 80 GB drive to my TiVo's 30. Then, the 30 started dying (tivo lockups, etc). I bought a 120 GB, and "merged" the 30 & 80 onto the 120. Ran it a few days, all was fine. Then I re-added the 80 back and now have 200 GB.


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## purple6816

I jsut bought her a DTivo of her own. She puts Opra and DrPhil and trading spaces on her own box. It is in her sewing room but, connects to the main tv also. I just point the remote into the other room and we can watch her Tivo. 

It is the only way to go. When she fills it she fills it.


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## timckelley

My second TiVo has arrived! The seller just emailed me saying that UPS has notified her that it arrived at my house, so I just called home, and indeed: my wife has found it on our front porch. (UPS never rings the doorbell  ) So this evening I'll hook it up 

Do I need to notify TiVo Corporation or anybody that ownership has transferred to me? I'm initially not going to sub it, but I wonder if TiVo will still think it's subbed to the original owner. Well, I suppose after 30 days of nonpayment service will lapse.


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## timckelley

When I called home to ask my wife to check the front porch, I told her to carry the package gingerly to the room where it's going, and to lay it softly down, because I don't want to jar the hard drive too much. At that point, she started jokingly making fun of me by saying "My Precious! My Precious!" (implying that I was as attached to my TiVo as Smiegel was to the Ring.)


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## timckelley

Well, the second TiVo is installed and works perfectly. I can't tell you how much a sense of liberty and freedom I feel from having separate TiVos. You all must try it.

Over the weekend, I finished watching all my stuff off the Now Playing menu on my wife's TiVo, and transfered over my SPs, so the series 2 is all hers now.


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## Marco

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Well, the second TiVo is installed and works perfectly. I can't tell you how much a sense of liberty and freedom I feel from having separate TiVos. You all must try it.
> 
> Over the weekend, I finished watching all my stuff off the Now Playing menu on my wife's TiVo, and transfered over my SPs, so the series 2 is all hers now. *


Time to update your username subtitle text!


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## JYoung

(patiently waiting for the Mrs. to start taking over the second TiVo)


(I'd guess mid February or so)


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## TivoGeezer

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *(implying that I was as attached to my TiVo as Smiegel was to the Ring.) *


More so, I would guess. At least the tivo will not purposely betray you.


----------



## timckelley

> _Originally posted by Marco _
> *Time to update your username subtitle text! *


Oops! Somebody mentioned this to me earlier, but I thought he was talking about my sig. Thanks.... I've now updated the username subtitle.


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## Mike20878

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Oops! Somebody mentioned this to me earlier, but I thought he was talking about my sig. Thanks.... I've now updated the username subtitle. *


What was the old one? I don't think I noticed it...


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## Capn Jack

> _Originally posted by foo monkey _
> *Start deleting her programs, one at a time, but don't tell her. If she finds out, which she probably won't, apologize. She's not going to divorce you over television. *


or tell her its a bug you read about on TiVo Community.


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## Marco

> _Originally posted by Mike20878 _
> *What was the old one? I don't think I noticed it... *


"Have Only One TiVo"


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## allan

> _Originally posted by Marco _
> *"Have Only One TiVo" *


Well, he still just has one Tivo. His wife has the other one.


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## timckelley

But I feel very liberated


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## drtivoevil

divorce!


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## timckelley

Divorce need not be necessary. The key to saving a marriage is to own two TiVos.


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## timckelley

Well, she did the forbidden thing. There was a movie on My Tivo set as KUSN. I'd already watched it, but she told me not to delete it because she wanted to watch it.

*Without my permission, she changed it to KUID * <sounds of shocked horror>.

She wanted to save it because she wants to tape it. Well, I informed her that she has violated one of the Sacred Holy Commandments, and that I reserve the right, if I get low on space, to arbitrarily change whatever I want to KUSN.

She agrees that this is my right, and in fact, within 24 hours, she taped the movie off to tape, so no harm done. To tell the truth, I still have lots and lots of unused space on my 194 hour TiVo, so I'm not worried about space anytime soon. If and when I get low on space, then I'll be looking at the KUID stuff on there and changing some of it to KUSN.

I don't use KUID for any of my own stuff, but if space gets low it's possible I might (in order to protect my shows from her stuff) start using KUID. At that time I might have to remind her not to change anything without my permission to KUID. Of course, if gets to this point, I probably should upgrade her TiVo. But it's not to that point yet, because I have lots of unused space on my TiVo right now.

You might wonder: why if I have so much space did she bother changing it to KUID? Answer: it had a yellow exclamation mark next to it, and she was worried about imminent deletion. I've explained to her before that that's not what the explanation mark means, but she's been having trouble accepting my explanation of the exclamation mark.


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## JYoung

shoot, I figured it would be at least another two weeks before she did something.

Stand firm. Otherwise she gets a crack here, a little more the next time, and soon she'll have taken over both TiVos.


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## Joey303

> You might wonder: why if I have so much space did she bother changing it to KUID? Answer: it had a yellow exclamation mark next to it, and she was worried about imminent deletion. I've explained to her before that that's not what the explanation mark means, but she's been having trouble accepting my explanation of the exclamation mark.


*This is not your wife's fault. Her logic is the typical logic that human being would use when seeing the exclamation point.

This is TiVo's fault and has been mentioned 
HERE.*


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by Joey303 _
> *This is not your wife's fault. Her logic is the typical logic that human being would use when seeing the exclamation point.
> 
> This is TiVo's fault and has been mentioned
> HERE. *


Thanks for showing me that thread. I agree with you.


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## robertj49

upgrade to a higher size disk--I think you can get up to 200 ish hours now, and then all can be happy. Record at the lowest quality you can stand to maximize space (If she won't watch 'em , give her the lowest quality!!)


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by robertj49 _
> *upgrade to a higher size disk--I think you can get up to 200 ish hours now, and then all can be happy. Record at the lowest quality you can stand to maximize space (If she won't watch 'em , give her the lowest quality!!) *


To be truthful, with all my newfound space (194 hours), I've been recording everything (no exceptions) at Best Quality. I was tired of the graininess on the old TiVo. Best Quality looks really nice.

Update: she's probably got about 2 or 3 hours of stuff on my TiVo with KUID! I told her that if/when my space gets low, I reserve the right to convert her stuff to KUSN, and my stuff to KUID.


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## JYoung

I'm sorry, you are allowing her to keep her stuff on your TiVo, why?


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by JYoung _
> *I'm sorry, you are allowing her to keep her stuff on your TiVo, why?
> *


There are shows we both watch. So I record these on my TiVo, and leave them there until she watches it. All her shows that are only for her are on her TiVo.

Well here's a new, slightly shocking update:
Right now, I've got 3 or 4 hours (probably closer to 3) of stuff I've already seen and am waiting for her to see so we can delete it. It's set to KUID (can you believe it?). I've always told her that if/when my TiVo gets low, I'll arbitrarily change what I want to KUSN, and maybe change some or all of my own stuff to KUID.

Well, this morning she told me "No you won't.... you'll tell me your TiVo is getting low, and then we'll set aside some time for you to watch our son while I watch the backlog and delete it."

So then I said to her: "So, are you telling me you're changing the holy ground rule that says I get the right to set the space settings on my own TiVo as I see fit?"

She replied to me: "Yes. Considering all the things I do for you in the marriage, yes, I'm revoking that ground rule."

I said back to her: "This could make good conversation material for the TCF."

She said "Fine."

So here I've posted it and await your advice.


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## TivoGeezer

What's that they say? "You can't win!" So watch the boy for a couple hours so she can catch up on Tivo. It will make peace.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by TivoGeezer _
> *What's that they say? "You can't win!" So watch the boy for a couple hours so she can catch up on Tivo. It will make peace. *


If my TiVo ever gets short on space because of her shows, it will take a whole lot more than a couple of of hours to free it up. We currently already take turns watching him to get our other house work done, but yes, I will agree to watch him for more hours if that's what it will take, unless more important work goes undone. (Like, say, getting our taxes done by April 15th.)


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## DevdogAZ

Sounds to me like the TiVo has been more of a problem for your marriage than a help. In my house, it has been nothing but a help, allowing us to spend time with our kids when they are awake, and watch our shows after they are asleep, for example. 

But you will never win this type of an argument with your wife. I say you don't let the TiVo get full before you make her watch her shows. If you do that, she could potentially have 30 or more hours of shows to watch and that is kind of insurmountable. I'd suggest making an hour or two a week where you tell her you will watch the kid while she can watch shows. That way you are always chipping away at the problem and it never gets too big.

The other option is to simply let some things get deleted. She will be pissed at first but eventually she will realize it's not a big deal that she missed a show, and once she realizes that, it will be very liberating for her. If she can come to an understanding that TV is there for her entertainment and TiVo helps to make that entertainment fit in with her schedule she will be very happy. If she continues to treat TiVo like a taskmaster that records far more shows that she will ever have the time to watch, she will never catch up, she will continue to be unhappy about it and the continued stress between you over this trivial issue could cause bigger problems in your marriage.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by devdogaz _
> *Sounds to me like the TiVo has been more of a problem for your marriage than a help. In my house, it has been nothing but a help, allowing us to spend time with our kids when they are awake, and watch our shows after they are asleep, for example. *


That's exactly how I use my TiVo. (when he's asleep.) I do find it very liberating to be able to do stuff with him and not worry about missing my shows.


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## Marco

Does she ALWAYS take a mile when you offer an inch? ... in non-TiVo matters, I mean.


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## Polcamilla

So.....many.....problems. Seriously----you *can* see that she's emotionally blackmailing you over TELEVISION, right?

Just delete the stupid shows and get it over with. Honestly, what's the worst she's going to do to you? Leave you? Deliberately break your TiVo?

I'll note (as a stay-at-home-wife and mother) that the things she does for "your" marriage are really the things she does for HER marriage and for HER family. If she's genuinely THAT unhappy with what she does that she feels she needs you to compensate her for her work by giving her an additional 8-10 responsibility-free hours so she can indulge in her compulsive habit, then she really needs to look at her life, figure out why it's making her unhappy, and make some serious changes so that her daily life can be a delight, not a drudgery.

You could fill your house with TiVos and still have problems. Television is not the issue here. And until you and she confront the REAL issue, your best bet is to find some place to lock away your TiVo where she can't access it. And feel no guilt about doing so, because she's showing that she can't share and can't play nice and, as a grownup yourself, there's no reason you should continue to give in to her childish demands.

Good luck!


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## JYoung

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *There are shows we both watch. So I record these on my TiVo, and leave them there until she watches it. All her shows that are only for her are on her TiVo.
> 
> Well here's a new, slightly shocking update:
> Right now, I've got 3 or 4 hours (probably closer to 3) of stuff I've already seen and am waiting for her to see so we can delete it. It's set to KUID (can you believe it?). I've always told her that if/when my TiVo gets low, I'll arbitrarily change what I want to KUSN, and maybe change some or all of my own stuff to KUID.
> 
> Well, this morning she told me "No you won't.... you'll tell me your TiVo is getting low, and then we'll set aside some time for you to watch our son while I watch the backlog and delete it."
> 
> So then I said to her: "So, are you telling me you're changing the holy ground rule that says I get the right to set the space settings on my own TiVo as I fit?"
> 
> She replied to me: "Yes. Considering all the things I do for you in the marriage, yes, I'm revoking that ground rule."
> 
> I said back to her: "This could make good conversation material for the TCF."
> 
> She said "Fine."
> 
> So here I've posted it and await your advice. *


Say what? Considering all the things she does?
Correct me if I'm wrong, (and I apologize in advance if I am) but she's a stay at home mom. Which means you are the breadwinner in the family. The one who goes out and works 8-10 hours a day to earn the money that allows her to indulge in her obsession.
It's not like you bring nothing to this marriage and for her to say that is unfair to you.
You could say to her, "Considering all the things I do for you in the marriage, I'm revoking the rule for my fidelity" and see what her reaction is.

Personally, I wouldn't let her get away with it. Once she starts doing this, it won't be long until she entirely takes over "your" TiVo (and starts canceling your Enterprise recordings). Then where will you be? You'll be backt o square one with the same problem, that's where.

(Oh, and PolCamilla makes a lot of sense too)


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## ZeoTiVo

anyone else here realize that this fued is all about television shows ?

I mean if you can not watch a television show within a week of it being on then is it really all that important to keep around. How many hours of shows are on VCR tape that will never get played ?

I tend to agrre with Polcamilla that this is about more than a TV show, at least I hope so becuase it sure would be very unreal to get this worked up simply about keeping a bucnh of TV shows around becuase you don't have time to watch them.


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## TiVoChick

Do you use HMO? Perhaps she can transfer some shows from your TiVo to hers when space gets low. That not only gives her more time, but it forces her to manage her shows within the space budget on her unit, not yours and hers.


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## JYoung

Unfortunately, wife has a Series 2 TiVo and Tim has a Series 1 (unsubbed, I believe)


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## timckelley

Yes, mine's unsubbed, and I don't have HMO. Plus, I should mention that I have 194 hours, but she only has 80. She really ought to have the one with more space, but she needs the guide data more than I do. (I also really like having 194 hours, because it means I can TiVo everything at Best Quality.) I've told her that if need be, I can upgrade her TiVo to have more space. But we're holding off on that for now, because even though she's occupying space on my TiVo, I still have 6+ screens worth of suggestions on it, so space is not a problem yet. (Suggestions came in during the first month I had it when it was subbed by the original owner, who finally got smart and cancelled her sub - I got several weeks of free guide data, hehehe!)

My latest thinking though, is that if space gets to be a problem, I might consider offloading her stuff to a tape and handing her the tape. She's already told me she wouldn't object to that. (She's also made it clear that she has no idea when she'll ever get to watch her stuff that's on my TiVo, but I am *not* to delete it - unless it's been offloaded to tape, that is.) The only bad thing is the menial work of offloading, but I suppose if I kicked off one show per night as I go to bed, I could make serious progress towards getting her stuff off my TiVo.


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## David Platt

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Well, I wear the pants, and my TiVo is my TiVo! *


Are you re-thinking this statement yet, Tim?


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Well, I wear the pants, and my TiVo is my TiVo! *





> _Originally posted by David Platt _
> *Are you re-thinking this statement yet, Tim?   *


I don't recall ever making the statement you quoted me as making. Where did you extract that quote from?


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## MediaLivingRoom

Maybe we should be able to add an external DVD-RW drive.


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## JoeltheTiVoFan

I suggest you think hard before adding capacity to her TiVo hard drive. The trouble is - she can't keep up with her recorded shows. When someone can't keep up with the load, and create a backlog, you don't solve anything by giving them the ability to create more backlog for themselves. Instead, you should try to create a situation where they have LESS ability to do so.

My wife insists on reading every line of a newspaper (not literally true, but she does like to scan every article). So, a typical five-section daily would take her all afternoon, and take most other people 30 minutes. We would pile up days, weeks of papers. It was a mess. We reached a deal: Every recycling day, we throw out all newspapers over 7 days old. 

My wife hasn't changed her newspaper habit. It's the same with magazines, etc. Every page, every article, etc... But she HAS accepted that it is silly to keep old papers around and read them, so she has SELF-LIMITED her back-log.

Now, admittingly, she does have the trouble with TiVo as well... she will want to watch every episode of any show we tape - even if we've put it in the category of "taped just because we may watch it if bored."

My solution (that she accepted): Set every show to keep at most 2 episodes. That way, they delete themselves... same idea as the papers.

By the way, if you think this sounds controlling - it's not... she's the one who asked me with ways to keep her backlog to a small number, and this is what I've come up with.

-Joel


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## David Platt

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *I don't recall ever making the statement you quoted me as making. Where did you extract that quote from? *


Right here.


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## timckelley

Oops... I guess I did make that statement in jest. What man truly wears the pants in any family? Women hold the trump card. If they don't get their way, they can get emotional about it (yell, cry, etc.)


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## Glen Graham

Tim...

As I posted back on 6-24-03 (post #92) -- note, in particular, the red and blue passages. The red predicted this, but...

The blue is the real key. From the last conversation you posted, it strongly seems as though your wife has some consuming (unspoken) issue -- either against you, or is simply directing her anger at you.

It could be resentment about your child's disabilities, her feeling she is "wasting" her life (a career she wanted but is not pursuing), or something you did. However, I want to venture to say that there is no *solution* to your TiVo issues...

The TiVo and the televisions are not her *real* problem. I urge you to think about that. She is merely using the TiVo as an outlet for built-up anger... and *that* is what you really need to get to the root of.



> _Originally posted by Glen Graham _
> *So, in a nutshell, your wife needs help. You're right - increasing capacity will not help, she'll hoard more and become more obsessive.
> 
> If/when you get your own TiVo, she will fill hers up, and see space on yours -- and then either set some stuff to record on yours, or complain to you that YOU are being mean and unfair to HER (because you have extra space and are not sharing).
> 
> Lastly, her setting everything to KUID and hoarding to tape... is very very indicative of problems that undoubtedly go beyond the scope of this forum. Either she has some unspoken grudge against you (thus she refuses to share), or she has an obsessive-compulsive disorder (making her feel the urge to hoard) that she cannot keep in check and should honestly consult professional help for.*


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## timckelley

Well, she is now only has about 2 hours on my TiVo, because I've been offloading her stuff to tapes. I'm using EP quality, so I think all her stuff will ultimately take up 3 tapes. Lately there's not too much of her stuff going on my TiVo, because there are lots of reruns going on now.

To tell the truth, there are only 3 SPs on my TiVO that she wants as KUID, which I'm taping off the VHS instead. And 2 of those 3 are in their last season and soon to be cancelled, so maybe there's some light in the future.

I talked to her again yesterday about her vast horde of tapes, and she tells me frankly, that the reason she's storing so much stuff that she has no time any day soon to watch, is that she has no faith in the future quality of our television shows. Much as a squirrel hoards nuts for the winter, she is hoarding hundreds and hundreds of hours of TV on tapes so that in her old age she'll have stuff to watch.

My reply to her is that I have more faith in the future of TV. I figure that when the time comes, there'll be worthwhile stuff to TiVo and watch. She disagrees with this assessment.


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## Marco

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *I talked to her again yesterday about her vast horde of tapes, and she tells me frankly, that the reason she's storing so much stuff that she has no time any day soon to watch, is that she has no faith in the future quality of our television shows. Much as a squirrel hoards nuts for the winter, she is hoarding hundreds and hundreds of hours of TV on tapes so that in her old age she'll have stuff to watch.*


The videotapes will go bad before the stuff on live TV does.


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## allan

> _Originally posted by Marco _
> *The videotapes will go bad before the stuff on live TV does.  *


I dunno. TV is getting pretty bad already. If I had to rely on the PrimeTime lineup, I would have thrown my set out the window by now.


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## ZeoTiVo

TVLand in 20 years will have all this stuff anyway

they may even have channels by decades by then


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## Glen Graham

Hoarders always have "reasonable excuses" for hoarding...

The truth is, she has an obsession. That obsession is "not missing anything she might, maybe, one day, sort of want to watch".

Obsessions are, sometimes, caused by the mind focusing energy in one direction to make up for a desire that cannot be fulfilled.

Often, therepy can help people resolve their obsessions.

But, the person has to want to change.


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## MediaLivingRoom

Bump


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## Susiemw

I just spent goodness knows how much time reading this thread from beginning to end. Talk about "days of our lives"in the tivo community. 

I was happy to read that you got the second tivo.

I was also supportive of your wife, who after all is an adult and allowed to make certain decisions in her/your life even if they aren't really realistic.. overdoing tivo is better than drugs , alcohol etc) right up to the point where she "changed the ground rules".

I hope you guys manage to work this out. I know if your wife were married to me her shows would have been instantly deleted from tivo when she pulled the "everything I do for this marriage" card. She does do a lot in your marriage. So do you. You're both in a tough situation with a child that needs extra care but playing fair between husband and wife has to be a ground rule that never changes. 

No arbitrarily changing the rules, no suddenly making the democracy a dictatorship. Communication is everything and at this point perhaps she needs to get reasonable about how much she is taping. it sounds like an addiction. At this point she doesn't want to get control of this addiction but that doesn't mean it's not a problem that she hopefully will acknowledge and confront. Normally, i'd say let her keep this addiction if it's giving her comfort (and it must be on some level) but the latest stunt changed my mind.

Of course, my opinion is meaningless in this discussion but it's 3:40 am and I should have been watching tivo instead or reading this bloody long thread so I just had to comment! LOL

Good luck!

Susan


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## timckelley

Oh, I see somebody bumped this. Well for quite awhile now, we haven't had any conflicts between TiVos. There's only two SPs that we both watch which sit on my TiVo, and I simply archive them to VHS when I'm done watching them, so I have scads of room on my unsubbed series 1.

I've told my wife that if she is struggling too much with space we could consider upgrading her 80 hour TiVo, but I don't think she wants to, because she thinks that if her 80 hour TiVo is full, she's got too much in her Now Playing. Well, it is mostly full still, and she's still constantly archiving to make room for her To Do List.

The latest is that she consolidated her clothes which used to be in two dressers and one bureau, and was able to free up one entire dresser drawers, and she's using it to store tapes. (The bookcases are all filled up with tapes already.)

She's admitted to me that she's addicted and wishes that she wasn't, but doesn't know how to break the addiction.


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## DevdogAZ

> _Originally posted by timckelley_
> *She's admitted to me that she's addicted and wishes that she wasn't, but doesn't know how to break the addiction.*


I would say the first, and easiest thing to try, is to "accidentally" delete some shows from her TiVo before she gets a chance to watch or archive them. She'll be pissed initially, but then she'll realize that the show is gone, there's nothing she can do about it, and she may actually find it liberating to have one fewer show to worry about.


----------



## timckelley

> _Originally posted by devdogaz _
> *I would say the first, and easiest thing to try, is to "accidentally" delete some shows from her TiVo before she gets a chance to watch or archive them. She'll be pissed initially, but then she'll realize that the show is gone, there's nothing she can do about it, and she may actually find it liberating to have one fewer show to worry about. *


Hmmm.... do you think I should run this idea by her first, or just surprise her with a lost show? I wonder how safe this is. I fear it may not be safe.

Correction to my last post: it's not 2 SPs, but 3SPs that we jointly own, residing on my TiVo.


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## Polcamilla

Tim---

Have her take a look at www.flylady.net --- if she really wants to make a change, this is a GREAT site. Flylady has a fantastic way of making you see how harmful clutter is and hording is and gently reminds you that you need to really love yourself to be able to make the changes you need to in your life.

Good luck!


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## JYoung

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *
> 
> She's admitted to me that she's addicted and wishes that she wasn't, but doesn't know how to break the addiction. *


Perhaps a counselor would help?
As Glen said, there's something else driving this.


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## timckelley

My wife is now complaining that the existence of her TiVo has a sort of beckening effect, sucking her into the room where she spends hours at a time attending to it, causing her to neglect her other duties. She has requested that I sell her TiVo to break her of the addiction.

I asked her what's to stop her from being drawn to my surviving TiVo. She said that that she'll know it's my TiVo and so will stay away from it. I thought that maybe she was making a rash decision after having a bad day, so I asked her the next day, and she's still standing by her desire to get rid of her TiVo.

I told her I'm having second thoughts about selling it, because having two standalone TiVos is handy for resolving conflicts. If she really wants to get rid of it, maybe I should take it for myself and become the owner of 2 TiVos while she owns zero. But she feels like she'd still get beckoned by it.

I suggested how about I remove the TV from the room that has her TiVo, and she admits that would accomplish the same thing, as she won't use her TiVo if there's no TV next to it. However, I could still use it because I have it hooked up to AVcast technology which makes it operable from a different room. (Of couse she could do this too, but doesn't know how.)

My question to you is: is it excessive for one person (me) to have a series 2 80 hour TiVo (subbed) and a series 1 194 hour TiVo (unsubbed)? It seems like a huge amount of space for me, and I'll never come close to using a large fraction of it, so it makes me think maybe I should sell one. Still, conflict resolution is nice, but on the other hand, I rarely have conflicts. But I won't say never, but there have been conflicts; it just doesn't happen often. Is that justification for hanging on to two TiVos?

(Note: last night I observed her in the act of being beckened to her TiVo, but it was after our son was asleep, so I don't see the big harm. But she told me that she also attended to it yesterday afternoon while my son was in school, and she had other housework that she really wanted to get done, but didn't.)


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## David Platt

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *I asked her what's to stop her from being drawn to my surviving TiVo. She said that that she'll know it's my TiVo and so will stay away from it. *


From the behavior that you've reported in this thread, I'm having a _really_ hard time believing that she'll follow through on this.


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## Marco

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *My wife is now complaining that the existence of her TiVo has a sort of beckening effect, sucking her into the room where she spends hours at a time attending to it, causing her to neglect her other duties. She has requested that I sell her TiVo to break her of the addiction.*


See JYoung's post, above. Unfortunately, you might have to send TiVo away ... could be akin to not keeping any alcohol in a household that has an alcoholic living in it. Your wife seems to display some traits of OCD and/or and addictive personality. But I'm no professional, so what do I know.


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## DevdogAZ

I think maybe this summer would be a perfect time for both of your TiVos to disappear. Whether you sell them or just hide them is up to you. Let her go 3 months without the ability to record and maybe it will break her of the habit. Then you can decide whether it's safe to bring the TiVo out.


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## TivoGeezer

Sounds like time for "Tivos Anonymous".


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## timckelley

Before making both TiVos disappear, I think I should just make hers disappear and see if she actually tries to use mine. I can always make both disappear if need be, but I really hope that's not necessary.


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## TivoGeezer

Maybe you could turn on the parental controls to keep her from messing with yours.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by TivoGeezer _
> *Maybe you could turn on the parental controls to keep her from messing with yours. *


Excellent suggestion. If she really wants to be locked out of her TiVo so that she won't yield to temptation, parental controls would accomplish that. I'll see what she says about this.

Question: Are parental controls available on an unsubbed series one?


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Excellent suggestion. If she really wants to locked out of her TiVo so that she won't yield to temptation, parental controls would accomplish that. I'll see what she says about this.
> 
> Question: Are parental controls available on an unsubbed series one? *


put parental controls on the Series 2
put the remote in a locked drawer or hide it , etc.. ask her to box up all the tapes and store them away some where. See if she can do that.

If she really hits bottom and tries to break the parental controls or get at your remote then she may willingly see she needs a professional that can help her to deal with her TV/TiVo compulsion.


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## timckelley

I've got some somewhat alarming news to report. All through this thread, I've been assuming my wife has about 100 VHS tapes in the house, because that's what I thought it looked like. Well, the other day, out of curiousity, I counted them.

Including all the tapes she's bought with movies already on them, plus the blank ones that she's offloaded TiVo onto (the latter is much greater than the former), she's got in excess of 540 VHS TAPES!!!    

And the number is still growing.

Well, I'm just happy that her hobby isn't something more expensive.


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## tivoman

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *She's got in excess of 540 VHS tapes!
> 
> And the number is still growing.
> 
> Well, I'm just happy that her hobby isn't something more expensive. *


 Thats funny, my co-worker collects DVDs and his collection so far is about 1,100 and still growing too plus he has about 4,000 VHS tapes from TV shows and movies.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by tivoman _
> * Thats funny, my co-worker collects DVDs and hs collection so far is about 1,100 and still growing too plus he has about 4,000 VHS tapes from TV shows and movies. *


HOLY CHRIST!!!!!   My wife will probably be happy to hear that her habit is tame compared to some.


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## Glen Graham

Either that... or she'll go into "high gear" trying to regain her #1 spot from "the competition"

Still, the that many tapes takes up a lot of room... plus effort, etc. Perhaps she really needs a "work at home" job to focus her efforts on!


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by Glen Graham _
> *Either that... or she'll go into "high gear" trying to regain her #1 spot from "the competition"
> 
> Still, the that many tapes takes up a lot of room... plus effort, etc. Perhaps she really needs a "work at home" job to focus her efforts on! *


TMCkelley should PM all those people posting about recording news feeds etc.. His wife may already have an archive of them


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## goofyfanatic

> _Originally posted by allan _
> *I wouldn't bet on that! Some people take their TV very seriously. *


If she was taking T.V. that seriuosly then she would have watched the shows already.

Expanding the drive in the current unit will only tempererly solve the problem. Give it another couple of weeks and the problem will return.

I think the getting her own box makes the most sense. How much will it cost. Get a refurbed 40 hr unit and the lifetime subscriptsion and you are on your way. Of course when hers gets filled (Which it will) she might just come back to your unit!

Seth


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## TivoFan

540 tapes x what 6-8 hours each? (I don't even remember the last time I recorded something on a tape so the # of hours is a guess). Plus an 80 hour tivo.

The truth of the matter is that more than likely she'll never watch 80-95% of the tapes.

I suggest you implement a tough-love system. Take all of her tapes and lock them up where only you have the key. Stop any purchases of new tapes. Allow her to keep 10 tapes outside of wherever you have them locked up. If she wants to watch one of the other tapes, she has to trade you a tape to get one out of storage. Only let her trade one a day. If she doesn't have enough room to record/archive something, then it gets deleted.

Your wife isn't recording shows for archival reasons. She's recording them to feed her addiction. To make her feel like she's able to manage everything. But she needs to learn that it's impossible to manage everything and learn to focus on the most important things.


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## timckelley

> _Originally posted by TivoFan _
> *I suggest you implement a tough-love system. Take all of her tapes and lock them up where only you have the key. Stop any purchases of new tapes.*


 There's one problem with that strategy. I want to stay married to her. 

Update: The bad news is that last weekend, I just assembled yet another bookcase to hold her ever growing tape supply. The good news is that, now that she's admitted that she feels compelled to watch or tape even the Suggestions , she has agreed that it's a good idea to disable the Suggestions feature. I have done exactly that, and so now her TiVo will not provide anymore suggestions. I know that seems like a waste of TiVo's assets, but if my wife can't resist spending too much time with her TiVo due to beckoning suggestions, then I feel we've done the right thing here by disabling them.


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## Marco

> _Originally posted by timckelley _
> *Update: The bad news is that last weekend, I just assembled yet another bookcase to hold her ever growing tape supply.*


You're not an exhumer, you're an enabler.


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## ZeoTiVo

Good for Her :up: 

put a parental lock on it and do not tell her the passcode. this will tell you both if she is really ready to kick the habit


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## timckelley

On the subject of selling it or keeping it for myself as my second TiVo, I'm undecided. I really don't have that many programming conflicts, so I probably really don't need two TiVos. But which to keep? Hers is subscribed; mine isn't. But mine has 194 hours of space, hers only 80. Also hers has folders, but mine doesn't (because mine's a series one).

I could sell hers, and then subscribe mine... that's a thought. But then I still wouldn't have folders, but folders aren't really that big a deal to me anyway. Or I could upgrade the series 2 to have more space and then sell my unsubscribed unit. (I wonder if a series 2 will upgrade to 194 hours worth?)

But then I have to figure out where to sell one. I guess I could try ebay, but I need to learn how to post an auction there. Plus my feedback score is only +7. (I've bought 8 things, all with positive feedback... two were from the same seller. I've never sold anything on ebay.) So I don't know how much bidding I'd get on my low feedback score.

I guess I could avoid the whole problem altogether and just keep both TiVos. 



Edit: I forgot to mention that high on my priority list is to have more than just 80 hours of space. I really like recording everything at Best Quality.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> I could sell hers, and then subscribe mine... that's a thought. But then I still wouldn't have folders, but folders aren't really that big a deal to me anyway. Or I could upgrade the series 2 to have more space and then sell my unsubscribed unit. (I wonder if a series 2 will upgrade to 194 hours worth?)


if the OS is version 5x or higher it will support larger Hard drives. 7X definitley will.
You also could get a 120 hour drive from an upgrader already to go and add it as a second drive in the series 2 and still be below the 137 gig partition limit. Read up on their site about the power trip needed to keep a second drive from spinning up at the same time as the first adn pulling too much on the power supply.


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## timckelley

New question: If I put both TiVos together in the same room, is it okay for both to be plugged into the same phone line? Also, should I not plug them into the same UPS? I'm thinking that would cut down their ontime in half during a power failure. I already have two UPSes anyway, so I suspect that they each should continue having their own UPS even if they're in the same room. Any of you out ther have 2 TiVos in the same room? What do you do UPS-wise?


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## ashu

timckelley said:


> New question: If I put both TiVos together in the same room, is it okay for both to be plugged into the same phone line? Also, should I not plug them into the same UPS? I'm thinking that would cut down their ontime in half during a power failure. I already have two UPSes anyway, so I suspect that they each should continue having their own UPS even if they're in the same room. Any of you out ther have 2 TiVos in the same room? What do you do UPS-wise?


Shouldn't be a problem - just split the phone line. If they HAPPEN to dial out at the same time, only one will succeed, the other will try shortly thereafter. Calls occur every 24-36 hours and last (average) 10-20 minutes. Odds of an overlap are low.

UPS - sure, you'd halve the total up-life, but so what - if you can't shut it down in 5 minutes, how does 10 minutes help? 

Upgrades and disks (suggestion) - should you decide to sell the Series 1 with Lifetime (great market for it, BTW), move the large disk (from it) to the S2! Upgrades are easy. Use the income (from selling it) to buy Lifetime for the S2!


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## peteypete

OOPS


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## Polcamilla

I can't help but wonder if getting rid of her TiVo in some way is really going to do the trick? I ESPECIALLY wonder if it will if she knows you have a functioning TiVo in the house (let alone two!). What will keep her from using yours? What will keep the situation from escalating as it always has before?


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## catboy17too

I agree with upgrading the harddrive. Unless of course you need to watch two things at once, for more space it makes much more economical sense to upgrade.


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## DevdogAZ

I would unhook her TiVo and hide it and tell her you sold it to someone at work or something. Then see how she handles the withdrawls and if she starts scheduling things on yours. If after a while she shows that she can handle it, but you are wishing you had a second one for conflict resolution, pull the other one out and hook it back up. However, if during your test, you also find you can live just fine with only one, then you really can sell the second one.

As for which to keep, as an owner of an upgraded series 1, I would prefer a S2. I'd like folders and HMO and TTG. It should be fairly simple to add another (or larger) drive to your wife's S2 so it has the capacity of your current S1.


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## timckelley

Your HMO and T2G comments are a really good point. If I ever want to use those features I better keep the series 2. I wonder if I could take a drive out of the series one and put it in the series 2? I know weakknees sells kits for adapting the power supply to handle two drives and also a better fan to keep the series 2 cooled with two drives. I wonder if I could buy their kit, minus the extra drive if I've already got one. Or would this drive have to be somehow prepared/configured first in some way, since it'd be coming from a series 1 and going to a series 2.

I guess I'm getting a little off topic here, as this question is better suited for the help forum.


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## boscodegama

I can understand your wifes problem. I had this problem a while back when I had my TV tuner card and was recording a lot of shows. I was keeping them for no apparent reason.

I do archive stuff off of my TiVo's now with TTG, but it's a very select group of programming. Any and all poker shows ( involving professionals that is, not celebrities )  and some other Discovery shows and stuff like that.

It sucks to be consumed and burdened like this and I can sympathize. It may be helpful to get rid of them or seek conseling if she can't deal with it on her own. 

It's not a big deal, in my opinion, but it's definitely worth rectifying.


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## mrjam2jab

could set kids show to Keep at most 2 or some such low number....will only have 2 at any given time but they will alwasy be there.


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## timckelley

mrjam2jab said:


> could set kids show to Keep at most 2 or some such low number....will only have 2 at any given time but they will alwasy be there.


To tell the truth My wife finally deleted those old 3 SPs for child shows. But a few weeks ago she convinced me to add 1 child SP to my TiVo  She said she wants to watch an episode or two of this new show before deciding whether to keep or delete the SP. If she keeps it, she'll archive to tape (or get me to do that). But this was all before her recently renewed committment to stop watching TiVo. I haven't asked her yet how this effects the children SP on my TiVo.

Oh and as for the KAM=2, she prefers 'Keep all episodes'. I prefer KAM=1. I actually compromised with her and got her to agree with KAM=4 on this new SP.


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## JYoung

This problem is not going awaaaayyyy.....


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## waldingrl

We have had this problem, too. We upgraded our first Tivo and purchased a second. I generally watch the upstairs tv so it's loaded with my stuff and stuff for our son. The downstairs unit has all the programs we usually watch together, stuff for our son & my husband's stuff.

I tend to fall asleep during alot of things we watch together so I try to catch up on them. We have a rule - we keep 2 episodes of shows we watch together on the downstairs unit. If I fall asleep or miss for some reason it's my responsibility to catch up. If I dont it's my loss. Of course - there are exceptions for mini-series or season finales, etc.. I STILL haven't seen the rest of The 4400 but being married for 10 years my husband knows that he can't get away with deleting that one!  

Wouldn't the home media option make it easier also? We don't have it, but you would be able to access the shows from multiple units.

If you have kids you could always take the kids for the day and order her to eat popcorn and ice cream and catch up!


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## HTH

LooseWiring said:


> Upgrade.
> 
> Your wife preferrably....


When I read this, my instinct was to immediately post, "Oh! I-i-if you do that, ca-can I have the old one?"

Then I read the rest of the thread. I don't think our hoarding activities should be combined. (There's something to be said for non-localized archive security anyway.)

I was going to suggest getting three Series2 boxes and using HMO to record the shows you both like on one, shows each of you like on your own, and use HMO to transfer from the common unit for shows one of you wants to keep and the other to eliminate.

But at least I know who to ask when I need to get a copy of some early 21st century television programs (especially commercials which tend not to survive). Um... she has labeled the tapes, has an organized filing system, and databased them, right?

You might also want to consider redesigning the shelves so that you can put them tightly against each other and spread any two sections apart to access them. Check some really big (book) libraries for ideas.

Lastly, make sure you have a system for their safe destruction en masse before the raid by the feds. Or get someone that can convince a jury that she is really only time-shifting. At the very least, get her to watch some of the first tapes and erase them to demonstrate that this is only temporary time-shifting and not eternal retention.


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## timckelley

As far as the legality of these tapes, they really are only for her personal use. Also HMO won't help us because my TiVo is only a series one.


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## GBaz

Dont take this the work way but, see is like an adict. Try having a hroing adict quit will leaving heroing easliy accesible. It does not work.
Sounds like she is a horder. Does she do this with anything else...i knew someone who had clsets full of string, yes string, just incase they everneed some they had 10,000 miles to choose from.
While your worried about staying married to her i think she is already married to the TiVo Guy. It may be time for her to join TA, TiVo Annonumus. No really dont be affended but i think this may be a bigger problem then you can handel on your own.


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## wouldworker

GBaz said:


> Dont take this the work way but, see is like an adict. Try having a hroing adict quit will leaving heroing easliy accesible. It does not work.
> Sounds like she is a horder. ... No really dont be affended but i think this may be a bigger problem then you can handel on your own.


How cud hee knot bee affended? You cald his wyfe a horder. Wear I come frum thems fiting wurds. iff u cald my wyfe a horder Id brake yor nos.


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## DevdogAZ

wouldworker said:


> How cud hee knot bee affended? You cald his wyfe a horder. Wear I come frum thems fiting wurds. iff u cald my wyfe a horder Id brake yor nos.


LOL!!   

I wanted to say something, but couldn't figure out how. You hit the nail on the head. :up:


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## ashu

wouldworker said:


> How cud hee knot bee affended? You cald his wyfe a horder. Wear I come frum thems fiting wurds. iff u cald my wyfe a horder Id brake yor nos.


Funniest. Post. Today. 
Thanks


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## vanchaser

This may seem mean. But IF a 2nd TiVo is too expensive (It IS the BEST solution), then you should try the following.

Set Seasame Street and Wiggles on a 5 show max (and at low quality). My daughter is happy to see Elmo and not the recording quality. 1) She shouldn't be in front of the TV for 5 hours at a time.. and every day a NEW hour of TV is added. (Personally I have mine to a 2 show max and it works out in our house) but the 5 show max is for your wife appeasment.

The one that will get you in trouble. Remove ALL the Keep Until you delete of all new recorded shows. Let them get recorded and AUTOMATICALLY removed.

WHEN she starts throwing pots.... explain the unit only has SO much room. She HAS to watch shows or else it fills up.

Finally make a season pass for TLC's CLEAN SWEEP. Have your wife watch this show.

1 Tivo for you and your child
1 Tivo for your wife.. .and let your WIFE try to keep hers working.... IS the best solution.

Another thing to consider... Calculate how many hours you and and your wife actually DO spend watching your TV shows. Then you have to make some hard decisions since the weekly shows MUST fit into the amount of time you have to enjoy the TV.

Remember whole shows can be written off and "caught up" once the season is released on DVD.


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## timckelley

My wife now knows about this thread, but hasn't read it. Well, actually I told about this thread a long time ago, but only recently have I brought up the idea of her reading it. Question: Do you think I should show it to her? I think it's funny and it makes me laugh when I read it, but I'm not sure if she'll take it that way. I kind of briefly (very briefly) described it to her, and she's not sure either how she'll react. Maybe I better play it safe and not let her see it.


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## stevel

It's rather long. I'd not encourage her to read it. If she finds it on her own, fine. If you push her, it will change her attitude about it.


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## Philly Bill

If she hasn't watched 'em by now she isn't gonna. Delete 'em.


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## Polcamilla

So you mentioned two weeks ago that she now knows about This Thread and might or might not want to read it. But you DIDN'T mention her current TiVo status. Last we'd heard, she was thinking about getting rid of hers and had a Season Pass (for a kid's show) set up on yours. So....did she get rid of the TiVo? Has she taken over yours? Has your child (who was, at the time, too young to appreciate some of the shows she was recording for him---MY kid, who is younger than yours, is now watching Reading Rainbow and Between the Lions) EVER watched ANY of these shows?

I wouldn't recommend that she read the thread (I mean, she CAN---I wouldn't prevent her if she was determined to) because I don't think it will make a difference. Psychiatrists and lightbulbs and all that.


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## faspina

Its a series two. Hook it up to your PC and download them to your PC, if you have a CD burner you can make VCD, 1 hour shows fit fine on a VCD you don't need a DVD burner. 

Mike kids NEVER want me to delete stuff so I off load them to DVD/VCD


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## timckelley

Polcamilla said:


> So you mentioned two weeks ago that she now knows about This Thread and might or might not want to read it. But you DIDN'T mention her current TiVo status. Last we'd heard, she was thinking about getting rid of hers and had a Season Pass (for a kid's show) set up on yours. So....did she get rid of the TiVo? Has she taken over yours? Has your child (who was, at the time, too young to appreciate some of the shows she was recording for him---MY kid, who is younger than yours, is now watching Reading Rainbow and Between the Lions) EVER watched ANY of these shows?
> 
> I wouldn't recommend that she read the thread (I mean, she CAN---I wouldn't prevent her if she was determined to) because I don't think it will make a difference. Psychiatrists and lightbulbs and all that.


To answer these questions:

In her attempt to break herself of her TiVo/archiving habit, she and I did the following: Her TiVo room was filled with countless tapes, plus her TiVo, 2 TVs and 3 VCRs. We moved all her tapes upstairs to a different room, and moved her TiVo to the family room, which is where my TiVo was, and I moved my TiVo off to the living room. (We also moved her TVs and VCRs upstairs.) As far as I can tell (but I should ask her to make sure), she's mostly stopped her mad habit of archiving tapes. I haven't been putting together new bookshelves nor have I been seeing packages of blank tapes sitting around, so I think this is a safe bet. But she hasn't 100% stopped using the TiVo. She simply watches it in the family room now. But I think she's not using it to the excessive extent that she used to.

Supposedly, under this arrangement, she was giving me her TiVo, and I was going to move a lot of my SPs to it, but I don't see this happening, because the space is still mostly filled up on it with her stuff. We're in the off season anyway, so my SP's are dormant, so I'm waiting until fall to decide which TiVo to keep my SPs on. I have a feeling I'm still going to keep my SPs as manual recording on my own unsubbed TiVo, and that what we've really accomplished here is to shuffle what rooms the TiVos were in, but at least she doesn't seem to be archiving to tape so much, so that's something. I think her To Do list is no longer filled with stuff designed solely for archiving. But she still has her To Do List for stuff she wants to watch, hence she's using most of the space on her TiVo. But still, I did move one of my SPs to it, with a KAM=5, and the # eps I have on there really is usually around 3 because of the space limitations. This is a low priority SP of mine, so it doesn't bother me.

I'm certainly not greedy and don't expect that I should get two TiVos, and she gets zero, but it was her original idea to do this because she felt she was spending too many hours watching TiVo. But as you can see, I think she really still owns a TiVo, though she doesn't come out and admit it. But she's no longer complaining that she's neglecting her other duties because of TiVo, so I'm hoping her habit is under control, but admittedly it's been a long time since I've really talked to her about this.

Oh, and on my TiVo (the unsubbed one), she doesn't have a single thing sitting on it, nor does she have any SP on it, so this is truly my 100% TiVo.

And as for the question about my 5 year old son (who, btw, is autistic)... he still has never watched any show she's ever offloaded to tape. He rarely has watched shows directly from Now Playing, but mainly he likes to watch VHS tapes and DVDs.

Oh, and finally, after thinking about it, I've decided not to show her this thread. As things stand now, I don't think she'll stumble onto it either, because she hardly ever does any internet surfing.


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## BillyT2002

I've solved this problem before by buying a second TIVO. In my house, we now have a He-vo and a She-vo.

Another good idea is to never set up a season pass to save until you delete just set options to save until space is needed, save at most 1 or 2 episodes, record only first run episodes only, whenever possible.

Then, once something is recorded, you can save it indefinitely if you really want to.

Every once in a while you just have to give your wife the ultimatum that if she doesn't watch something or save it to VCR tape within so many days, her options are that you will either delete it, buy a new TIVO for yourself or seek a divorce, her choice.


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## timckelley

BillyT2002 said:


> Every once in a while you just have to give your wife the ultimatum that if she doesn't watch something or save it to VCR tape within so many days, her options are that you will either delete it, buy a new TIVO for yourself or seek a divorce, her choice.


I never threaten divorce because she already uses that word a lot already.  I'm afraid that if I threaten it, she'll say "okay - let's do it."


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## Polcamilla

Sounds like a lot of work, but it also DOES sound like some progress has been made (I guess you'll really see when the new TV season starts). It's great that she doesn't have ANY shows on your TiVo. If it were me, I think as long as that boundary was maintained, I wouldn't worry too much about what she does with hers. I can see how you feel that you having two TiVos is unfair, but her having two TiVos is equally unfair. 

I do remember that your son is autistic and I don't think you've ever mentioned how moderate/severe it is (although, I know any level is challenging---we have friends with high-functioning autistic kids who seem to be absolutely charming the few times I've met them who still present many challenges to their families). I was more asking whether he's watched any shows as a gauge of her compulsion to preserve television for future need than because of his developmental needs. I don't know if this would be of any use to you, however, but we do have one autistic friend who made some real progress on his speech because he was fascinated with the Thomas the Tank Engine videos (which my son also adores). He watched the videos, then his mother gave him a small wooden Thomas engine and he immediately starting playing with and talking about the engine when previously he talked about almost nothing/no one at all. He is younger than both your son and mine, however.

Oh, the other thing I'd suggest to you is to go ahead and subscribe/upgrade the drive on your TiVo. Right now it seems like you're having to suffer the trial of manual recordings and a small drive for fear of feeding your wife's compulsion and there's no reason to punish yourself, particularly if she's getting things under control. If she DOES start to monopolize your box again, then you can just lock it up (perhaps get a fireproof box and drill holes in the back for the cables----then unlock the lid when YOU need to use it and lock it again when you're done) if you need to.

Thanks for the followup!


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## timckelley

Polcamilla said:


> I do remember that your son is autistic and I don't think you've ever mentioned how moderate/severe it is


I'd say he's moderate to severe. He's 6 years old now, and still hardly says any words, and communicating anything to/from him is still a challenge. Showing him photos works fairly well though, but you can only communicate so much through photos.

And now for an update: My TiVo is broken! :down:  :down:

It's been showing the signs for awhile. At first occasional pixelation, then frequent stuttering and pixelation, and sometimes it just freezes and the remote does nothing, and I have to reboot. Lately the stuttering and freezing is so bad, that it's really unusable. And when it freezes, it won't record anything. My research in the Help forum suggests that it's likely a bad hard drive.

So for now, I've put all my SPs onto my wife's TiVo. Unfortunately the free space still hovers around zero, so it's tricky watching my shows before they delete.

I still refuse to use KUID on my shows, but most of my wife's stuff still has KUID, so this makes it hard to watch my shows without fear of deletion. I just approached my wife the other day and requested she curtail her use use of KUID. She says that any show she doesn't 100% know she's going to watch it in the next couple of days, she's going to use KUID.

It's still true though that she doesn't archive to tape anymore. I'm trying to decide between the following options:

1) Spend over $100 to get a new drive from weaknees and fix my TiVo
2) I have a spare drive I'm not using sitting in my house, so maybe I can fix it for free. But I don't know how to do this, and I'm not quite sure where to get the instructions for how to do it. I saw some Hinsdale instructions, but it looks like it's designed for upgrading, not replacing a hard drive. My case might be complicated too because I might have two drives in there now (at 194 hours, I suspect it's two drive), and I don't know if one or both are bad.
3) Since I never subscribed my TiVo to begin with, I could give up and buy a new TiVo. I don't need much space on it. 40 or 80 hours would be enough for me.

#2 is appealing because it saves money, but #3 is appealing because it won't take work on my part. My other issue is my lack of subscription. If I go #3, I'll have to subscribe unless I get another used series 1. But I've been wishing to be subscribed because I've lost a couple of shows to schedule changes I didn't catch in time, and a subscribed TiVo would have caught it for me. It's also so much easier to set up recordings when you're subscribed. So if I subscribe, #3 is viable, and has the extra benefit of making HMO possible. (Series 1 doesn't support HMO.)

But my wife often resists me spending more $ because she thinks if we need two TiVos, then she should stop hogging her TiVo and let me have most or all of it. She says this but it never seems to happen. I think I'm going to have another talk with her soon, because my TiVo is broken. Either she stops hogging her TiVo, or I buy a new second one, or fix the one I've got and subscribe it.

I also can't decide whether to subscribe for $6/ month or go lifetime for $300.

Actually, I'm starting to think that if I fix the series one, I should go for the $6/month because that way if I decide I want a series 2 later, I'm not locked into the series one. Also, the series one is getting to be an old unit, and I don't know if I should fork out lifetime for it.

I think I'm leaning towards fixing it for free ala Hisdale, and then paying $6 / month to subscribe it. I just need to educate myself on how to fix it, and how to diagnose the current drives that are in it. (Also, I'm told that dual drives are somehow 'married', and can't be split up. What if one drive is good and the other is bad? Is there really no way to reformat the good drive and keep it? Make it into a one drive/smaller system? It doesn't make sense to me that you can't do that.)


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## BobCamp1

The Tivo Upgrade Center has all kinds of advice on upgrading or replacing hard drives.

Since your Tivo is in sad shape, you probably can't get a good image from it. I can suggest Instantcake, which is easy to use and can turn any hard drive into one that your Tivo can use. It costs $20. http://www.ptvupgrade.com/products/instantcake/


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## ZeoTiVo

if you can figure which is the good hard drive you can use it and chuck the other. It will mean reformatting the drive and losing everything on it of course.

if it was me I would fix the sereis 1 and hold off buying until more is known about the new cable card model with dual tuner. Dual tuner would solve a lot of your TiVo problems


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## timckelley

BobCamp1 said:


> Since your Tivo is in sad shape, you probably can't get a good image from it. I can suggest Instantcake, which is easy to use and can turn any hard drive into one that your Tivo can use. It costs $20. http://www.ptvupgrade.com/products/instantcake/


I thought there were were people in the upgrade forum willing to give an HDR212 image for free. (That's my model.) I'm not sure of this, but I think I should check into it before paying the $20.



ZeoTiVo said:


> if you can figure which is the good hard drive you can use it and chuck the other. It will mean reformatting the drive and losing everything on it of course.


Yes, I really don't mind if I lose everything on the series 1. I was pretty much caught up when it went bad anyway.



ZeoTiVo said:


> if it was me I would fix the sereis 1 and hold off buying until more is known about the new cable card model with dual tuner. Dual tuner would solve a lot of your TiVo problems


I'm not sure about that course of action. By having two physically separate TiVos, it enforces separation of space between my wife an me. In effect, I "own" my space, and she owns her space. With one dual tuner TiVo, she could conceivably take over the whole TiVO.

Also, if I went the dual tuner route, I bet I'd have to resubscribe lifetime to it, but admittedly I could sell my current lifetime unit and get some money back. But now that I think of it, I'll certainly keep this in mind because sometimes I have conflicts between my own shows I need to resolve, and if my TiVo was dual tuner, it could be handy. So I agree with you that fixing my old TiVo makes sense because it keeps my options open as far as eventually getting a dual tuner model.

I wonder when those are going to come out? I have analog Time Warner cable. Do you supose the dual tuner cable card model will work for me?


----------



## alyssa

couple of thoughts
Owning ones own space is a positive thing... especially if one of those people like to keep (lots of) things.

Second with regards to your wife, just to kinda flip this around a bit, how about suggesting she archive her shows on to DVD via MyDvd ect. It'd give her something to do with the shows & ulitmatly they'd take up less room then tapes. Plus, she'd eventually have to decide if the show was worth her time to tranfer, edit, trancode & burn. My guess is that eventually she'd decide to keep less shows.


----------



## StanSimmons

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62430&perpage=20&pagenumber=7


----------



## timckelley

StanSimmons said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62430&perpage=20&pagenumber=7


Thanks for that link. I still haven't had time to work on my TiVo, but the first thing I plan to do is to open it up and run some sort of fitness utility (if I can find one) to the drive(s) to see which are good and which are bad. After that's done, I'll revisit your link.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> up when it went bad anyway.
> 
> I'm not sure about that course of action. By having two physically separate TiVos, it enforces separation of space between my wife an me. In effect, I "own" my space, and she owns her space. With one dual tuner TiVo, she could conceivably take over the whole TiVO.


* grin * I actually meant a dual tuner for your own use so conflicts are no longer an issue for you. It sounds like your wife should stick with a single tuner TiVo 

and we are not yet 100% sure that CC dual tuner will give you two tuners off of analog. - that is my hope as well adn hopefully CES anouncements will tell us more on those kind of details


----------



## timckelley

ZeoTiVo said:


> * grin * I actually meant a dual tuner for your own use so conflicts are no longer an issue for you. It sounds like your wife should stick with a single tuner TiVo
> 
> and we are not yet 100% sure that CC dual tuner will give you two tuners off of analog. - that is my hope as well adn hopefully CES anouncements will tell us more on those kind of details


Yes, in the latter half of my post, I started to realize (as I was typing), that I personally could use a dual tuner.

It's not common for me to have conflicts, so the dual tuner would be sort of a luxary.

However, two of my season passes conflict on Wednesdays: SouthPark and Law and Order. However, SouthPark repeats their first run eps several times, so this can be handled.

Today is exceptional though. This evening is the Rose Bowl (my home team Longhorns have a shot at winning the national title for the first time since 1970), Law and Order (first run), and SouthPark (first run). I've scheduled SouthPark to catch the repeat later in the week, so that's fine. But I had to choose between Law and Order or the Rose Bowl, neither of which will be repeated anytime soon. I chose the Rose Bowl, because that's just too important to miss.


----------



## timckelley

timckelley said:


> I thought there were were people in the upgrade forum willing to give an HDR212 image for free. (That's my model.) I'm not sure of this, but I think I should check into it before paying the $20.


Yes indeed, I'm downloading my free image as we speak. I've already opened up the TiVo and see 2 80G Maxtor drives, and I've verified one is good and one is bad, so I'll keep the good one. (I ran Maxtor fitness utilities on them.) I'm thinking of adding my puny 20G drive that I have laying around as a second drive for a total of 100G (which admittedly will mean a reduction from the 160G I've been enjoying.) Yes, I know 20G is puny, but I'm not using it anyway, so I may as well put it to use, and save money by not buying another drive. I personally think 100G is enough for me.

I hope I can understand the Hinsdale instructions (they look formidable to me), but we'll see. After I get this TiVo working, I intend to subscribe it. For a long time now, I've been living with an unsubscribed TiVo, but this last month, borrowing my wife's TiVo, I'm remembering how nice it was to have the features of subscription, so I'm going to take advantage of the multi-user dicount and pay $6.99 to subsribe my series 1. Later if I want to upgrade my series 1, I won't have to worry about being locked into lifetime. (Of course this means I need to commit to a one-year contract, and so I'll be using my series 1 for at least a year. I feel like I can live with that.)

For the last week or two, my wife's TiVo has had about 6-10 shows in Suggestions, but now it only has one, and my wife yesterday warned me that she's pumped a recent surge of stuff into the To Do list, so I think I should watch my shows promptly after their appearances into Now Playing, to avoid deletion. Of course if she fills it all with KUID, I'm up a creek, so I have an incentive to get my series 1 fixed. (Yes, she still has most of her stuff as KUID, which I really don't agree with.)

I originally proclaimed myself liberated when I first bought the second TiVo, but at the moment I'm not. I look forward to my fixed TiVo.


----------



## timckelley

After about 3 days of trying to figure out the Hinsdale guide and getting many questions anwered by the helpful people over on the Upgrade Forum, it appears I've successfully fixed my series 1 TiVo. It's now a 115 hour TiVo, as I pulled out the bad hard drive, and replaced it with a smaller hard drive I had hanging around. (It was 80G + 80G, but now it's only 80G + 20G). True, it's a step down, but it was free because that hard drive was just sitting left over from my last computer whose motherboard had gone bad, and I really don't need more than 115 hours.

I also just bit the bullet and subscribed it at $6.95 per month. I'll give my wife the option of which TiVo she wants: series 1 @ 115 hours, or series 2 @ 80 hours. It's quite possible my wife will prefer the series 2, even with it's smaller space, because it has folders, and I think she really likes the folders feature. Of course, now that I've finally become educated in the ways of Hinsdale, I suppose I could even attempt to upgrade her TiVo, if she wants.

Question: if for some reason after using this TiVo for awhile the old problems resurface (but I doubt that will happen), I can cancel my new subscription in the first 30 days. If I then decide to buy a new TiVo (say, if I can't fix this one), could I restart a new monthly on that unit? If so, it seems like kind of a loophole. Somebody could repeatedly start a sub, and then cancel within 30 days, alternating like that, and effectively get perpetual free service.


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## Polcamilla

timckelley said:


> If so, it seems like kind of a loophole. Somebody could repeatedly start a sub, and then cancel within 30 days, alternating like that, and effectively get perpetual free service.


I'm pretty sure that the TiVo mothership can recognize individual TiVos by serial #, so you'd pretty much need to keep buying a new TiVo every 30 days, which would cost *far* more than the $7/mo. of the subscription. Besides which, the perpetual subscribing and calling to cancel would be a tremendous amount of work----would anybody *really* want to spend 2-3 hours of their time every month to save $7?


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## timckelley

Uh oh... new update that caught me off guard. It didn't appear to me that this whole having my TiVo unsubscribed made it so unattractive to my wife, and maybe that's whay she's always stayed off of it for the two years I've had it. Now that it's subscribed, she asked me if she could move her General Hospital (soap opera) SP onto it temporarily. Her TiVo is mostly filled up, and she wants a chance to widdle it down, and apparently, to offload some stuff to tape. With the moving of TiVos around the house lately, the VCR hasn't been hooked up to her TiVo, so stuff has built up. It's hooked up now, though.

She wanted to put her SP on my TiVo as KUID. I asked her if she could refrain from sticking anything on my TiVo as KUID, because I really dislike to the use of this. She compromised and agreed to 'keep until 5 days'.

(the good news, also, is that of her SPs, General Hospital is one she does a pretty good job keeping up with. Her mother and her watch it on most weekdays.)

Now admittedly, I have more space than her (115 hours at basic, vs her 80 hours at basic), and she even considered trading TiVos with me once I subscribed mine, but since mine is series 1, we can't do HMO, which means she can't export her shows to my TiVo, so she decided to keep her TiVo. I told her I'd still consider upgrading the size of her TiVo, especially now that I've had hands on experience with the Hinsdale instructions. Well, it hasn't gotten to that point yet, because my TiVo still has scads of room on it.

BTW, I'm liking the suggestions feature of my TiVo, because right now a lot of my SPs aren't generating new eps due to the off season, and the suggestions feature is doing not too bad a job on my TiVo.


----------



## timckelley

Oh no! My wife has asked me to stop deleting my Scrubs eps after watching, because the next several eps have a guest star that she's interested in watching. I suggested that we then record on both TiVos, and that way each person can delete their copy when they're finished.

But her TiVo is about tapped out of space, and she pointed out that I have *lots* of space on my TiVo, and that I'd be pretty selfish not to cooperate with this request. I could tell she was about to get emotional, so I stopped arguing. 

Well, to keep peace I'll do this, but I'll be monitoring my TiVo to make sure she doesn't creep too much onto it. In fact, in my mind, it's not enough to make sure I have several hours of free space. I like having lots of free space because lots of free space = lots of Suggestions = good chance some of the Suggestions are shows I like.


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## ZeoTiVo

setup to record anything - record CNN in 1 hour blocks

fill up your TiVo while you can and she will then think there is no space


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## timckelley

ZeoTiVo said:


> setup to record anything - record CNN in 1 hour blocks
> 
> fill up your TiVo while you can and she will then think there is no space


 This is war! I must defend my TiVo against foreign invaders.


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## JYoung

You realize that you are on your way to buying a third TiVo.


----------



## dnthewind

I never thought that a thread on a message board could make me appreciate my wife so much... I just read the 1st 2 and last 2 pages of this thread and the transformation is inspiring/hysterical.

Tim, you're a good man. :up:


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## timckelley

Oops. I mistakenly thought this thread got archived, and so I continued the story onto a new thread. The new thread is here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=309930


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## murgatroyd

Tim, it's a real pity that the DVD-recorder units don't work better. Just think, you could buy her the 300-hour upgraded model from Weaknees and then she would have plenty of room, AND she wouldn't have to have the VCR hooked up in order to dump off her shows. 

However, given what I'm hearing from my friend who bought one of the Humax recorders, I suggest you not buy one without reading the various threads here outlining the problems that some of these units have. 

Jan


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## JYoung

Told you to stand firm


----------



## timckelley

Oh NO! I am now down to LESS THAN ONE SCREEN worth of suggestions.  I told my wife yesterday about this problem again.... she is now feeling free to simply walk in and schedule stuff on my TiVo. THis is because her TiVo is full.

I think because I subscribed my TiVo half a year ago (I used to do everything via manual recordings, unsubbed), she is now finding my TiVo sufficiently user-friendly to invade. I guess I could hide the remote but I think that would provoke her.

I might not have mentioned this, but I just recently bought a standalone DVD-burner for less than $100, and have so far burned two of her movies on it. I like it much better than the old VCR-archiving method. It's right now hooked to the cable feed but not to either TiVo. She just told me she's thinking this weekend she wants me to hook the DVD-burner to her TiVo. Hopefully that means she's about to offload stuff and make room so she can get off my TiVo. 

I also told her yesterday that because I'm now down to less than a screen of suggestions, that maybe she should give me the go-ahead to upgrade her TiVo. :up: I told her that for just under $100, I can increase her from 80 hours, to more than 300 hours. :up: She likes the idea of upgrading, but she hesitates for me to do it now, because she doesn't like me spending a lot of time working on upgrading her TiVo when I could be working on other more important house projects. :down:

But I'm going to closely monitor things for the next few days, including DVD burner activity, etc, and if I don't see progress soon, I'm definitely going to advocate going forward with upgrading her TiVo.


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## JustAllie

I can't believe this thread has been alive since 2003, and you still have a problem.


----------



## timckelley

Surely I'm not the only one.  Isn't there anybody else out there in TCF land that has husband/wife TiVo problems?

BTW, her latest space hog is dozens of eps of General Hospital. (She has no intention of archiving those - she simply wants to watch/catch up on them.)

Also, the latest thing that set her back, TiVo wise, is that a couple of weeks ago she went to the beach for a week with her family and my son, while I stayed home and did house projects. I know that sounds bad that I couldn't even go along on a beach vacation, but I had fallen horribly behind in paperwork, and I don't know when else I could have caught up. Unlike most people I know, who can have their child play alone for an hour or two, we can't do that because of his autism. My wife watches him all week, and then when I'm off for the weekend, I try to give her a break, and then I watch him, which leaves me almost no time to get housework done.

During that week, she got more backlogged.


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## Adam1115

What your too cheap to upgrade the hard drive? You know you can put 1.5 terrabytes of space on a tivo...


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## JYoung

If she's literally dozens of episodes behind on a daily (5 times a week) soap opera, she will likely never catch up.


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## maki

JYoung said:


> If she's literally dozens of episodes behind on a daily (5 times a week) soap opera, she will likely never catch up.


I don't know what kind of seasons soap operas go on but if it's anything like my daily talk shows there's always a time like the summer for some serious catching up.


----------



## timckelley

Adam1115 said:


> What your too cheap to upgrade the hard drive? You know you can put 1.5 terrabytes of space on a tivo...


To be honest, I'm all in favor of paying the $100 to upgrade her to over 300 hours. The roadblock is her hesitance to divert me from my other housework to do this. But like I said, if my TiVo stays this low or gets lower, I'm going to press the issue and make it a higher priority to-do item.


----------



## DevdogAZ

timckelley said:


> To be honest, I'm all in favor of paying the $100 to upgrade her to over 300 hours. The roadblock is her hesitance to divert me from my other housework to do this. But like I said, if my TiVo stays this low or gets lower, I'm going to press the issue and make it a higher priority to-do item.


Dude. Sack up!! It's not like upgrading the TiVo is akin to building a new wing on the house. It should only take you a couple of hours. You waste that much time here on TC every day. I guarantee that whether she "approves" it or not, you will both be much happier in the long run if you just go ahead and upgrade her TiVo.


----------



## mattack

JYoung said:


> If she's literally dozens of episodes behind on a daily (5 times a week) soap opera, she will likely never catch up.


I'm dozens of episodes of Letterman's show behind (a few months' worth), but I'm going to watch them.. Though admittedly I didn't catch up during his 2 weeks off (busy with a developer conference). I am recording them from my Tivo to my other recorder where I can watch them at 1.5x speed with sound though..


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## alansplace

mattack said:


> I am recording them from my Tivo to my other recorder where I can watch them at 1.5x speed with sound though..


i love that feature about my Toshiba RD-XS32S.
--
Alan


----------



## timckelley

devdogaz said:


> Dude. Sack up!! It's not like upgrading the TiVo is akin to building a new wing on the house. It should only take you a couple of hours. You waste that much time here on TC every day. I guarantee that whether she "approves" it or not, you will both be much happier in the long run if you just go ahead and upgrade her TiVo.


Well, only once before did I replace a TiVo hard drive, and it took way more than a couple of hours to replace. It took 3 evenings of research, working, and asking questions when I got stuck. I really didn't find the Hinsdale instructions all that user-friendly to somebody of my knowledge. And that was a case where I didn't mind losing the programs on my disk. In this case, she's going to want me to copy all her shows onto the new disk as well, which will also mean we'll need to schedule this at a time when her To Do List has a big enough gap in it that she won't miss her recordings. I'm told the copy operation takes hours to complete.


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## Timber

I'll stick with the suggestion I made months ago, delete shows that you don't think she'll notice have gone and if she does blame it on TiVo.

-=Tim=-


----------



## JYoung

mattack said:


> I'm dozens of episodes of Letterman's show behind (a few months' worth), but I'm going to watch them.. Though admittedly I didn't catch up during his 2 weeks off (busy with a developer conference). I am recording them from my Tivo to my other recorder where I can watch them at 1.5x speed with sound though..


Most soaps (including General Hospital) don't have an off season or a vacation.
They show new episodes year round (except for a few holidays and the like).
So probably 255 episodes a year.


----------



## weetoots

edrock200 said:


> Throw a 120gb drive in there to add to your 80gb.


Is it as easy to add a second HD, as it is in a computer? Any sites with how-to's?

Al


----------



## timckelley

weetoots said:


> Is it as easy to add a second HD, as it is in a computer? Any sites with how-to's?
> 
> Al


No, actually it's considerably harder, which I can attest to, since it took me 3 evenings of working and asking questions when I got stuck (when I replaced a bad HD in my series 1 TiVo.) When I say harder, I don't really mean it's a lot of work - I just simply didn't find the Hinsdale instructions all that straightforward. Just replacing an HD in a PC is childsplay (imo) in comparison. Also, btw, opening the case of a TiVo is a bit more work than opening a computer case.

BTW, throwing in a second HD into a series 2 always causes power and cooling issues, but somebody else in this thread already suggested replacing, instead of adding to, the HD. That seems simpler, and is what I plan on doing.


----------



## DevdogAZ

timckelley said:


> No, actually it's considerably harder, which I can attest to, since it took me 3 evenings of working and asking questions when I got stuck (when I replaced a bad HD in my series 1 TiVo.) When I say harder, I don't really mean it's a lot of work - I just simply didn't find the Hinsdale instructions all that straightforward. Just replacing an HD in a PC is childsplay (imo) in comparison. Also, btw, opening the case of a TiVo is a bit more work than opening a computer case.
> 
> BTW, throwing in a second HD into a series 2 always causes power and cooling issues, but somebody else in this thread already suggested replacing, instead of adding to, the HD. That seems simpler, and is what I plan on doing.


I didn't find it very difficult when I did it previously. Hopefully having done it before, it will be easier for you the second time.

As for replacing the HD in your wife's TiVo, you do realize that by doing so, she'll first have to copy all her shows off of it, or just lose them, right? If she's willing to lose them or copy them all off to some other medium, then your problem is solved and you don't need to add a HD.


----------



## timckelley

devdogaz said:


> As for replacing the HD in your wife's TiVo, you do realize that by doing so, she'll first have to copy all her shows off of it, or just lose them, right? If she's willing to lose them or copy them all off to some other medium, then your problem is solved and you don't need to add a HD.


Yes, I knew that, and no, she doesn't want to lose her stuff. I planned on copying her shows off the old drive onto the new drive I buy. Admittedly I've never done that before (as the one other time I replaced an HD it was to my TiVo, and I didn't mind losing my shows and settings.)

I'm told it's possible to preserve the old shows by moving them to the new drive.


----------



## baw

Haha, my wife is the same way. She has shows dated from November last year. "Don't delete that! I'm going to watch it!"


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## timckelley

baw said:


> Haha, my wife is the same way. She has shows dated from November last year. "Don't delete that! I'm going to watch it!"


HA! So I'm not the only one in this boat.


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## TivoFan

Seriously, are we still posting in a three year old thread?


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## maki

Do your wives know you're talking about them??


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## timckelley

TivoFan said:


> Seriously, are we still posting in a three year old thread?


Nope. It's your imagination.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> Nope. It's your imagination.


the three old thread was not picked up on so timckelley started a new one.

MFStools 2.0 will allow you to easily copy the shows and settings to the new hard drive with no hassle if it is going back in the same DVR. With a little more research you can also copy shows and settings to a different DVR *as long as it is the same model*


----------



## JustAllie

timckelley said:


> To be honest, I'm all in favor of paying the $100 to upgrade her to over 300 hours. The roadblock is her hesitance to divert me from my other housework to do this. But like I said, if my TiVo stays this low or gets lower, I'm going to press the issue and make it a higher priority to-do item.


Her recording backlog is causing the problem.

She shouldn't get to decide whether you spend your time solving the problem. Either she okays the time, or she deletes her shows from your TiVo. Or she doesn't complain when you go out and buy a third TiVo and hide the remote from her.


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## Melwani97

VHS your wife's shows too??? 

Sorry to state the obvious, but that's all I got!


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## timckelley

Melwani97 said:


> VHS your wife's shows too???
> 
> Sorry to state the obvious, but that's all I got!


Yes, I could do that to get them off, but

a) There so many shows it'll take some work to do this. There is no 'batch save to VCR command' - such a command would be quite useful. I don't particularly enjoy the work, and also my wife is picky about how to label the tapes, so I prefer to let her take care of it. BTW, we do have a DVD burner, but it's hooked up to her TiVo, not mine. There is a VCR on my TiVo though.

b) There are some shows she really is preferring to watch on my TiVo and not tape off at all. I could be strict and tell her it's going to tape by this week if she doesn't watch it, but she gets touchy sometimes, so I haven't pressed it yet. I have a feeling though that part of her touchiness is being caused because inside she feels guilty for invading my TiVo.

Once I upgrade her though, I still have to deal with all the stuff of hers that currently sits on my NP. At least (I assume) no new stuff will show up. I'm sure she'll eventually get if off my TiVo herself though once she's upgraded. I mean she's doing that now - the problem is that new stuff of hers shows up on my TiVo about as fast as she gets old stuff off. Apparently while I'm at work, she is helping herself to my remote and scheduling new stuff. 

Once she's upgraded, I think we need to revisit the house/ground rules. She can possibly justify her invasion because I have a bigger TiVo than she does, even though she likes to record a lot more stuff than I do. But once she's upgraded, she'll have 2 to 3 times more space than I, and so she really won't have a lot of justification for invading my TiVo. I think I need to get her to sign off on the agreement to stay off my TiVo.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> Apparently while I'm at work, she is helping herself to my remote and scheduling new stuff.


OK right there all bets are off. It is time for some tough talk. You are posting about how you don't want to upset her by not doing the other house chores before upgrading a TiVo or deleting her shows or putting Kid Zone on your TiVo to keep her from adding or whatever.
Then she totally ignores your feelings and just does as she pleases.
That is not a 50 50 relationship and you either need to make it 50 50 by doing what you *know is right* or just admit to the 10 90 relationship and just give her both TiVos and doing whatever she tells you to do next.

Otherwise why drag out yet another thread going on about this nonsense.


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## classicX

timckelley said:


> To be honest, I'm all in favor of paying the $100 to upgrade her to over 300 hours. The roadblock is her hesitance to divert me from my other housework to do this. But like I said, if my TiVo stays this low or gets lower, I'm going to press the issue and make it a higher priority to-do item.


Whu-PSSHT!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

It doesn't take long to do the upgrade - are you THAT swamped with housework? Why do you even watch TV if you can't get away from your housework long enough to enjoy a show?

My point is, that hour or two or seventeen that you spend a week watching recorded shows, can be spent upgrading the Tivo.


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## timckelley

Also, remember, copying her shows to the new drive could be an overnight operation, so I'll have to negotiate a time when her To Do List has a big enough gap in it.


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## SMWinnie

timckelley said:


> Also, remember, copying her shows to the new drive could be an overnight operation, so I'll have to negotiate a time when her To Do List has a big enough gap in it.


...or, alternatively, just manually schedule her shows for that evening on her other* TiVo. Insane though your description of her sounds, I can't imagine she'd be unwilling to watch one night of material on her backup machine.

* You know, the larger one that you consider yours here but not at home.


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## Stanley Rohner

timckelley said:


> Also, remember, copying her shows to the new drive could be an overnight operation, so I'll have to negotiate a time when her To Do List has a big enough gap in it.


Holy cow !! She sure has got you whipped !

What would happen to you if one of her shows didn't get recorded because the TiVo was being upgraded ?


----------



## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Once I upgrade her though, I still have to deal with all the stuff of hers that currently sits on my NP. At least (I assume) no new stuff will show up. I'm sure she'll eventually get if off my TiVo herself though once she's upgraded. I mean she's doing that now - the problem is that new stuff of hers shows up on my TiVo about as fast as she gets old stuff off. Apparently while I'm at work, she is helping herself to my remote and scheduling new stuff.


You need to take your remote with you when you go to work.

Honestly, is she recording so much stuff that you can't take 4-6 hours to do the upgrade?

Of course, you're still only delaying the inevitable. 
Sooner or later, she will fill up her TiVo again and then she'll be recording on yours, "just for a little while".

Have you reminded her of the simple equation of x hours of material recorded = x hours to watch?


----------



## mattack

JYoung said:


> Have you reminded her of the simple equation of x hours of material recorded = x hours to watch?


You must be watching mostly noncommercial stuff.

for me, X hours of recorded material ~= .75X hours to watch..

(less if I FF with captions on, like a lot of the repeated stuff in the Last Comic Standing Finale... less if I watch on my non-Tivo recorder, where I can watch at I think 1.5x with sound. for things like Big Brother, I watch at 1FF the whole time.. For America's Got Talent, I 1FF through everything BUT the actual performances, which I watch at regular speed.)


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## JYoung

mattack said:


> You must be watching mostly noncommercial stuff.
> 
> for me, X hours of recorded material ~= .75X hours to watch..


I'm aware of that however, I don't think that the OP should overly complicate the argument.


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## timckelley

I've had these arguments before, but I don't think they've sunk in. She still likes to bite off more than she can chew. She tends to not think as logically as I do. Oh well, hopefully the upgrade will solve things.


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## TivoZorro

You've got to decide what kind of life you want to live. Do you want to be controled by a total control freak or do you want to live in peace.

My brother lives with a control freak. She controls what tv shows he watches, what he eats and what sports he plays among other things. He has been married ten years and is happy. Personally I never would have married her and I told him that when he asked me for advice. 

Your wife has total disregard for you. if I were you I would be getting a divorce. That's just my opinion. You need a break from her. Rent an apartment and take your Tivo with you. And don't give her a key to the place. Maybe after a few days of living without you she'll learn to accept your boundaries but i doubt it. Sometimes you have to lookk at for yourself. Or as others have suggested take your Tivo Remote to work.

You've issued plenty of threats and demands and she doesn't take any of them seriously because she knows you won't go through with any of them. All she has to do is pull her sensitive routine and she's got you right back where she wants you.

I issued plenty of threats to my ex-spouse. I kept telling him that I was going to leave him if he didn't straighten up but he didn't take me seriously until my dad called him into his office and gave him the bad news. My brother stayed with me at my apartment and I moved all of his things out to the garage where he could pick them up. My dad made it clear that I didn't want to see or talk to him ever again. He tried calling me a couple of times on the phone but I made it clear that I didn't want to talk to him and hung up.

I realize that you have a child and that makes things more difficult. I guess it comes down to how much do you love her and how much are you willing to put up with. But you do have options.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> She tends to not think as logically as I do.


and it is working for her and not for you.


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## Stanley Rohner

timckelley said:


> Also, remember, copying her shows to the new drive could be an overnight operation, so I'll have to negotiate a time when her To Do List has a big enough gap in it.


Cough{wussy}Cough


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## timckelley

Stanley Rohner said:


> Cough{wussy}Cough


True, I'm stronger than her, and I could put my foot down, but the reality of the situation is that being macho and dominant creates more problems than it solves. She can get emotional and start yelling and crying, and generally make life difficult (including threatening divorce, etc.) This is an atmosphere I really don't want to live with. She already yells enough and has enough anger already, I don't need the stress of more yelling and arguing, and my son certainly doesn't need to witness that. (Not to mention she's being medically treated for depression by her psychologist, and having an autistic son that needs almost constant supervision, and protection from dangers - like being run over by cars, among other things - even now at his current age of almost 7 - doesn't make things easier.)

So this is why I don't always put my foot down. But I haven't been lying down totally like a wussy either. I've had quite a few conversions with her, and she knows my feelings on this. Just today, I asked her if, after the upgrade to over 300 hours, will she then agree to stay off my TiVo. At first she said "no", because her TiVo is hooked to a DVD burner, but mine is hooked to a VHS machine, and she wants the option to archive her shows in either format. This is easily solved with an A/B switch that I just bought at Walmart, so I rephrased the question: "If I give your TiVo the option of saving to DVD or VHS, and if you have over 300 hours of space, do you foresee needing to put stuff on my TiVo?". At this point, she accused me of being selfish with my TiVo. I immediately told her it wasn't selfishness. I told her that we have the means of setting ourselves up with TiVos/accessories beefy enough to satisfy both our needs, and I see no reason why we shouldn't avail ourselves of this ability to set ourselves up. She needs a fair amount of space, and she needs to be hooked up to a DVD burner and a VCR. I want/need a fair amount of space so that I'll have a nice selection of Suggestions to choose from. Also, when she sets stuff up on my TiVo, if I'm not mistaken, it defaults to a one-thumbs up for all her stuff, which could be goofing up my thumbs settings.

So, we each have our needs, and I see a way to meet those needs, and I'd like to set things up like that, and I don't consider that to be selfishness. When I put it like that, she agreed with me and said she'll stay off my TiVo.

Anyway, I intend to order off for the new hard drive by this afternoon, and will install it sometime later after it gets shipped to me.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> Also, when she sets stuff up on my TiVo, if I'm not mistaken, it defaults to a one-thumbs up for all her stuff, which could be goofing up my thumbs settings.


 you are correct any season pass will automatically add one thumb up when it is setup. You can go to any show after it is set and one thumb down to make it neutral again.


> So, we each have our needs, and I see a way to meet those needs, and I'd like to set things up like that, and I don't consider that to be selfishness. When I put it like that, she agreed with me and said she'll stay off my TiVo.
> 
> Anyway, I intend to order off for the new hard drive by this afternoon, and will install it sometime later after it gets shipped to me.


Good - I recall the earlier thread and the difficulties you face but just wanted to see you make things work for yourself. No one else in your family will, unfortunately. Hope the upgrade goes smoothly. the second one usually does. :up:

PS - compare price against this page from outpost.com to get a good deal - the larger hard drive you put in now - the easier fro both of you later.
http://shop1.outpost.com/search?que...950&pType=pDisplay&from=0&to=24&order_by=p04d


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## Stanley Rohner

_She can get emotional and start yelling and crying, and generally make life difficult (including threatening divorce, etc.)_

_She already yells enough and has enough anger already, I don't need the stress of more yelling and arguing._

Did you witness any of this behavior before you got married ?


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## timckelley

Stanley Rohner said:


> _She can get emotional and start yelling and crying, and generally make life difficult (including threatening divorce, etc.)_
> 
> _She already yells enough and has enough anger already, I don't need the stress of more yelling and arguing._
> 
> Did you witness any of this behavior before you got married ?


To tell the truth - no. Then again, she didn't develop her clinical depression until after marriage.


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## billb914

forget the new drive - you need a second box - one for her stuff, one for yours.


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## TivoZorro

billb914 said:


> forget the new drive - you need a second box - one for her stuff, one for yours.


I think she already has her own box, which is full and that is why she is taking over his Tivo. I'm afraid that she'll just fill up the 300 hours on her upgraded box and then she will be back to scheduling things on his. It's a vicious cycle that I don't see how it can be broken.

I have a 700 hour Tivo, two 80 hour Tivos and one 30 hour Tivo. And I know that it is my responsibility to take care of my tv shows. If I get behind and my Tivos get full I either have to dump them to my PC or to tape. I have to have shows ready on tape for when I go pet sitting. I can't imagine sharing my Tivos with anybody else. Of course part of the deal of living with my parents is that I do record shows for my mom or dad (like Prison Break or Dancing with the Stars, Desperate Housewives) which I am recording for myself anyway. I just dump them to tape for them. They aren't interested in using the Tivos per say which is a good thing.


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## TivoFan

Your wife is an addict. Cut her off completely. It's for the best.


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## timckelley

TivoFan said:


> Your wife is an addict. Cut her off completely. It's for the best.


When I quoted this to her, she laughed and said you're probably right. Other times, when her mother brings up the subject, she protests by saying it's her hobby, and that everybody has hobbies, and this is hers.


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## timckelley

Oh, I have an update and a question for you people. The other day when I said I was going to order my hard drive that afternoon: My wife and I got into discussions about whether it was better to upgrade or get a third TiVo. She started pitching the idea for a 3rd TiVo because she wants to do her archiving stuff upstairs in a room that my son doesn't play in, but when she's downstairs, she wants to be able to watch General Hospital.

At first I thought I could get a cheap lifetime used TiVo off of ebay, because I saw some auctions with low bids and reputable sellers. But then the bid shot way up in the last day, and then when I searched completed auctions, I see it's really hard to get a lifetime for under $300 unless it's a series 1 with very little space.

So after more talking we agreed to the original plan of simply upgrading her current TiVo. I can still accomplish what she wants though because I have some AVcast equipment that I used to have installed, which is currently uninstalled. This equipment lets you watch a TiVo from a different TV than the one it's hooked up to. I used to use this equipment when my TiVo was unsubscribed because I wanted to be able to see my wife's guide data from my TV. Anyway, I can hook this equipment up again, which will allow her to watch her TiVo from downstairs, so this is really the best solution.

So now my next question is which hard drive to buy. Two of you above have posted links for me for suggested hard drives.

One link is:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144392



> Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JB 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
> $90.99
> 
> In Stock
> $5.64 Three Day Shipping (Not available in HI, AK and PR)


Another link is:

http://shop1.outpost.com/search?que...950&pType=pDisplay&from=0&to=24&order_by=p04d



> Seagate 300GB ST3300631A-RK Parallel ATA Retail Hard Drive
> Item # 4596277 Seagate Same Day $79.99 ships free
> 
> Maxtor 300GB L01R300 16MB Buffer Ultra ATA/133 - Retail Hard Drive Kit.
> Item # 4187703 Boxed Hard Drives Kits - 300GB & Above - 7200RPM Same Day $79.99


I see the cheapest is the Seaqate 300MB one. Should I be wary of certain brand names? Is there a reason why I should pick a different one that the cheapest above? Seagate is compatible with TiVo, right? BTW, even though the Western Digital says 320 MB, the comments from the consumers say that when formatted, it's just under 300 MB.


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## classicX

timckelley said:


> she wants to be able to watch General Hospital.


 

+1 for cutting off her TV completely. She needs a new "hobby."


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## timckelley

classicX said:


> +1 for cutting off her TV completely. She needs a new "hobby."


In her defense, she watches it while she's folding the laundry.


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## RangersRBack

Holy Mother of God!

I somehow just read this thread for the first time. Three years of the same posts over and over again...what kind of life do you have? And what kind of marriage?

She spends all of her free time recording and hoarding shows, and maybe even spends a little time watching them too. You spend all of your free time doing housework and negotiating time when you can feed her habit. 

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Do you two have any kind of relationship whatsoever that doesn't involve Tivo? Do you ever do anything together with your child? Ever go to the park? Do you ever do anything together that involves just the two of you? No surprise that you only have one child, she can't get pregnant through the remote.

For the posters who suggested he cut his wife off from the recordings, I totally agree. I also submit that we should cut this guy off from his addiction to coming on here and discussing his horrible personal life, and his questions about technology that never address his ultimate problem.

IMHO he needs to spend less time on here, and instead spend some quality time with his wife. Or some quality time at a lawyer's office getting away from his wife. Or some quality time standing up to his wife, let the tears flow and then take it from there. She may thank you for it later.

To me this barely sounds like a marriage. Ten years later he'll still be here asking about hard drives and the cost of upgrading, instead of addressing the real issues in his marriage.

Jeesh.


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## timckelley

You exaggerate the situation. The only TiVO watching I ever do is late at night after my son has gone to sleep. I spend most of my other time that I'm not at work, by playing with my son or doing housework. Most evenings I take my son for bike rides or walks, and at least once per weekend I usually go on hikes with him, and my wife and he and I often go swimming in our backyard swimming pool.

The problem with my wife is that she schedules a lot more stuff on her TiVo than she really has time to watch, and so it backs up on her.


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> The problem with my wife is that she schedules a lot more stuff on her TiVo than she really has time to watch, and so it backs up on her.


The problem with your wife goes far beyond having her Tivo back up on her. Re-read your posts.

Your marriage needs help.


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## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> The problem with your wife goes far beyond having her Tivo back up on her. Re-read your posts.
> 
> Your marriage needs help.


Actually, you're right but not for the reasons you had just posted, which is why I corrected your statment that we have no time for each other or for our son. We are, in fact, getting help. We're participating in marriage counseling currently, and in fact I've just finally arranged respite care for our disabled son once a month, so that we can hopefully finally have time to do things together without necessarily having our son with us all the time.

I've also been asking her for a long time that we should eat lunch together at least once a week while my son is at school, but she's always too busy for that. Yesterday, she said she intends to make time for this.

Having said that, yes she still has a problem with being obsessed with her TiVo, but it's more harmless than more expensive hobbies might be, or doing drugs, etc. She does need a hobby and there are worse ones to have. Meanwhile, I'd like to pursue this cheap upgrade to her TiVo as a means of reclaiming my own TiVo back again.

I recently noticed I had less than one screen of suggestions, and I told my wife, and she made progress and cleared up some stuff, but now I see she's scheduled a bunch of movies on my TiVo, some of which are currently in NP. Also, the new season has started, and my To Do list suddenly has several eps of my shows scheduled.

I took the action last night, and changed my SPs to KUID to combat with her KUID stuff, and I note that not quite all can be changed to KUID without getting warnings of earlier than desired expiration dates being assigned to my shows. I warned my wife this morning, but we barely had time to talk about it.

What I plan to do in the meanwhile before the upgrade is complete is to keep careful watch of my To Do List. If one of my eps is projected not to record due to lack of space, I really feel that I should delete one of my wife's movies, or delete one from the To Do List, in order that I get my show record. But in fairness I think I should let her know my plan, and I hope she sees the reasonableness in my logic that if my show is not recorded vs her show not being recorded, my shows should get priority, since it is my TiVo we're talking about. Meanwhile I should get moving on this upgrade so that less of this problem has to surface.


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## JYoung

Your wife is not respecting your boundries.
Time to hide your TiVo remote with you when you're not using it.

And of the drives you listed, I like the Seagate the best.

I have a Seagate running in my Series 2 with no issue so far.


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> Actually, you're right but not for the reasons you had just posted, which is why I corrected your statment that we have no time for each other or for our son. We are, in fact, getting help. We're participating in marriage counseling currently, and in fact I've just finally arranged respite care for our disabled son once a month, so that we can hopefully finally have time to do things together without necessarily having our son with us all the time.
> 
> I've also been asking her for a long time that we should eat lunch together at least once a week while my son is at school, but she's always too busy for that. Yesterday, she said she intends to make time for this.
> 
> Having said that, yes she still has a problem with being obsessed with her TiVo, but it's more harmless than more expensive hobbies might be, or doing drugs, etc. She does need a hobby and there are worse ones to have. Meanwhile, I'd like to pursue this cheap ugrade to her TiVo as a means of reclaiming my own TiVo back again.
> 
> I recently noticed I had less that one screen of suggestions, and I told my wife, and she made progress and cleared up some stuff, but now I see she's scheduled a bunch of movies on my TiVo, some of which are currently in NP. Also, the new season has started, and my To Do list suddenly has several eps of my shows scheduled.
> 
> I took the action last night, and changed my SPs to KUID to combat with her KUID stuff, and I note that not quite all can be changed to KUID without getting warnings of earlier than desired expiration dates being assigned to my shows. I warned my wife this morning, but we barely had time to talk about it.
> 
> What I plan to do in the meanwhile before the upgrade is complete is to keep careful watch of my To Do List. If one of my eps is projected not to record due to lack of space, I really feel that I should delete one of my wife's movies, or delete one from the To Do List, in order that I get my show record. But in fairness I think I should let her know my plan, and I hope she sees the reasonableness in my logic that if my show is not recorded vs her show not being recorded, my shows should get priority, since it is my TiVo we're talking about. Meanwhile I should get moving on this upgrade so that less of this problem has to surface.


Stop already, just stop.

Stop with the SP's and the KUID's and hoping she sees the reasonableness of your logic. You're past that now, if it hasn't changed in the last three years it won't change now.

You're just going to keep going back and forth, and in ten years you'll still be here posting about your latest idea that hopefully won't make her mad, and you'll be up to 35,000 posts (dude you're averaging like 200 a month).

She needs to walk away from the Tivo, and you need to walk away from this forum. You're both addicted, and your marriage is virtually over because of it.


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## classicX

tim, while RangersRBack is being a bit rude and sensationalistic, I tend to agree, but I don't think that your marriage is over. Without getting too deep into your personal life, judging by your posts here, it seems that there are bigger issues than the Tivo.

You and possibly your wife as well are using the Tivo as an excuse.

That said, you may not get to the root cause without some drastic measures. I said it jokingly before, but disconnecting the Tivo's is probably a good start. It will likely cause a big argument, but tell her it's because you want to spend more time with her and your son and don't want any excuses. Tell her you love her.

It will get worse before it gets better, but I think it's worth it, don't you?

For what it's worth, it's just TV. What will happen to her if she misses some shows? It won't kill her. I used to be the same way, recording show after show and always making time to watch TV, when it should be the other way around - if there is something better to do with your time (rather than watching TV), do it.

Tell her if she wants to watch General Hospital while folding the laundry, then fold the laundry while General Hospital is ON.

Be sure to let it be known that you are denying yourself from the Tivo as well. Take the Tivos and put them in a box and store them somewhere, for a good long while. Trust me, it won't be the end of the world. Not even your world.

But underlying issues will only be exacerbated by smaller "surface" issues. The quicker you get to the real issues, the quicker they can be resolved.

Tivo may lose a customer but you will gain a life.

And not just a 1UP mushroom.


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## sushikitten

Oh. My. God.

I just now read through all 13 pages of this thread. I had hoped it was just a controversial thread that garnered a lot of responses....so imagine my surprise when I saw it had been going on for THREE years.

I am seriously amazed that you can live with this. I know people have to pick their battles, but this would drive me INSANE! It doesn't matter how many boxes you have or how big you upgrade to, this is always going to be a problem. So why even bother??

Oh, and +1 for your wife going cold turkey. Desperate times call for desperate measures.


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## timckelley

classicX said:


> but tell her it's because you want to spend more time with her and your son and don't want any excuses.


I don't understand this statement. I'm currently not sacrificing any time with her or my son by watching TiVo. I've said many times in this thread that I only watch it late at night when my wife and son are asleep. My TiVo usage really is not causing any other part of my life to suffer. You could possibly make the argument that having my TiVo in the house is too great a temptation for my wife, but it's not true that I personally am sacrificing other things I should be doing instead.

Also, I really don't spend a lot of hours a week watching TiVo. I'm far from being controlled by it. But what few hours I spend, I feel it would be nice if I could use technology to make most use of those hours. (e.g. TiVo lets me FF thru commercials.) One of the big selling points of TiVo is that it lets you get higher quality TV viewing done is less time. I really think I use my TiVo the way it's meant to be used, and I'm not addicted to it. My wife may be, but I'm not.

As far as, is my wife spending less time with me and my son? She doesn't spend less time with my son, because she watches it mainly when he's in school. This is why she's so backlogged right now. His summer vacation (which is 1 1/2 months for him) just ended, and during that time, she didn't have a lot of time to watch TiVo. The fact that she's usually too busy to eat lunch with me, though, could be a sign she spends too much time with her TiVo. You could argue that if she spends less time with TiVo, she could have more time to finish her other house work, and have more time to spend with me at lunch, but that's fairly minor in the scheme of things, timewise, since lunch doesn't last very long. (BTW, every Friday all 3 of us already eat lunch together because my son gets off from school at lunchtime on Fridays.)

I think she suffers most from her TiVo because she gets backlogged in her housework. I do think she needs a hobby, but she does seem to get obsessed with TiVo.

But to give up TiVo so I can spend more time with my wife and son? That doesn't make sense. Giving up my TiVO watching would make no difference, since they're asleep anyway.


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## timckelley

jenhudson said:


> Oh. My. God.
> 
> I just now read through all 13 pages of this thread. I had hoped it was just a controversial thread that garnered a lot of responses....so imagine my surprise when I saw it had been going on for THREE years.
> 
> I am seriously amazed that you can live with this. I know people have to pick their battles, but this would drive me INSANE! It doesn't matter how many boxes you have or how big you upgrade to, this is always going to be a problem. So why even bother??
> 
> Oh, and +1 for your wife going cold turkey. Desperate times call for desperate measures.


It may be hard to tell by reading the thread at one whack, unless you pay close attention to the date stamps on each post, but really since I bought my TiVo 2 1/2 years ago, it's only in the last month I've had a problem with her hogging my space on it. For over two years I've actually lived in TiVo happiness.

True, she's infringed on it slightly over the last two years, but only to a very very small percentage of my free space. Now, in the first year (i.e. 3 1/2 years ago) of TiVo ownership, that's another story. At that time, we only had one TiVo, and there were quite a few months of conflict on that TiVo.

But you might have a false impression that I've spent 3 1/2 years of solid TiVo misery; that's not the case.

Also, if you think upgrading will not solve problems, it might at least extend it another 2 1/2 years like the last upgrade did. But I'd like to think that if my wife does develop 300 hours of backlog, she'll face reality and accept that that's too much and do something about it. From talking to her about this aspect, she agrees. She thinks an 80 hour (at basic quality - it's much much less than that at High or Best Quality) TiVo is not enough space, but 300 hours is. There actually is a certain amount of logic to that statement.


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> It may be hard to tell by reading the thread at one whack, unless you pay close attention to the date stamps on each post, but really since I bought my TiVo 2 1/2 years ago, it's only in the last month I've had a problem with her hogging my space on it. For over two years I've actually lived in TiVo happiness.
> 
> True, she's infringed on it slightly over the last two years, but only to a very very small percentage of my free space. Now, in the first year (i.e. 3 1/2 years ago) of TiVo ownership, that's another story. At that time, we only had one TiVo, and there were quite a few months of conflict on that TiVo.
> 
> But you might have a false impression that I've spent 3 1/2 years of solid TiVo misery; that's not the case.
> 
> Also, if you think upgrading will not solve problems, it might at least extend it another 2 1/2 years like the last upgrade did. But I'd like to think that if my wife does develop 300 hours of backlog, she'll face reality and accept that that's too much and do something about it. From talking to her about this aspect, she agrees. She thinks an 80 hour (at basic quality - it's much much less than that at High or Best Quality) TiVo is not enough space, but 300 hours is. There actually is a certain amount of logic to that statement.


Dude you've been posting about this for three years...THREE YEARS.

Part of me thinks you're making this all up to show us how dependant we've all become on our tivos. You speak of such an extreme example with thousands of hours of recordings, someone who is so obsessed with Tivo it sounds like she doesn't think of much else, and a marriage that sounds more like two people trying to figure out how to share Tivo, instead of trying to figure out how to share a life.

Now I don't think this is really the case, but for crying out loud already...THREE YEARS and you're still discussing the same basic issues.

Go to the movies for once, or a baseball game or something. Or exercise. I love Tivo but I have other interests too.


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## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Go to the movies for once, or a baseball game or something. Or exercise. I love Tivo but I have other interests too.


You might notice from my post count that I have posted on many, many other subjects than just TiVo (on the other TCF subforums.) This is a 3 year long thread, but the amount of time I've spent per month posting to this particular thread has been very small. Sometimes months go by without me putting in a single post.

Also, as for other activies (movies, etc), did you not notice how I said I only watch TiVo late at night after my family is asleep? During the day I have various other activities I participate in.

However this forum is the Coffee House forum, and in this forum we are only allowed to post about TiVo. Hopefully that explains why I've confined my discussion here to TiVo, and how a 3 year thread could be devoted to that subject.


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## murgatroyd

timckelley said:


> ... but now I see she's scheduled a bunch of movies on my TiVo, some of which are currently in NP.


May I suggest a separate negotiation for the movies?

I personally don't see the value in setting up my TiVo to record movies for me unless there is no other way to see the movie. I'd much rather get the DVD, which can be watched without FFing through commercials, comes with extras (I especially enjoy commentary tracks) etc.

If your budget allows, perhaps she could get some of these movies some other way. If not, perhaps a 'house rule' could be negotiated that summertime when she is likely to be behind in watching her other stuff is not a good time to go out looking for movies to record.

If you have a TiVo, sooner or later you have to learn that you can't record everything you might like to see and you can't watch everything that gets recorded. You have to be able to let some stuff go.

I recently had to go on a trip with an open-ended return date. I too have a backlog of shows I need to dump off to VCR. I gutted my SPM, tossing out a lot of SPs for stuff I really didn 't care about, turning off auto-recording for a bunch of ARWLs, etc. so that I could keep the stuff I needed to put at KUID and have space to record the stuff we absolutely wanted to see that would air while we were gone. CBS News Sunday Morning is great, but would we care about watching a two-week-old recording? No, so off the To Do list it went. The manual five-minute recordings we use to change the channel for the morning news -- out! And so on.

If the movie in question has never been out on DVD and can't be rented or gotten in some other way, that's one thing. But if it is something that's readily availble on another format, why waste valuable TiVo space?

If you like, point out to her how much movies are edited for TV. Sell her on the better movie-viewing experience she could have if she chooses not to fill up your TiVo with movies.

Negotiate, but give her a chance to come around so she'll make the decision and she'll be happy with what she chooses to keep or toss.

P.S. to the rest of you -- give Tim and his wife a break. They have the right, and deserve the chance to work things out to their satisfaction, not ours. If they have a disabled kid, they have stuff to worry about that a lot of the rest of us don't have. So what if they fight a little over the TiVos? It's better than fighting about other stuff.

Jan


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> You might notice from my post count that have posted on many, many other subjects than just TiVo (on the other TCF subforums.) This is a 3 year long thread, but the amount of time I've spent per month posting to this particular thread has been very small. Sometimes months go by with me putting in a single post.
> 
> Also, as for other activies (movies, etc), did you not notice how I said I only watch TiVo late at night after my family is asleep? During the day I have various other activities I participate in.
> 
> However this forum is the Coffee House forum, and in this forum we are only allowed to post about TiVo. Hopefully that explains why I've confined my discussion here to TiVo.


Yet three years later you're still posting about the exact same issue...your wife infringing on your tivo space. It's getting old now, literally, and to me 9,000 posts in less than four years is a lot. 200 posts a month on a tivo forum is excessive, regardless of the subject you're posting about...it's still Tivo.

There is a lot of obsession going on in your house, and maybe it's time to do the unthinkable...get rid of Tivo altogether. Both you and your wife may find it liberating that you're not tied to the machine anymore, and maybe you can move on to more important things...like real life.


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## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Yet three years later you're still posting about the exact same issue...your wife infringing on your tivo space. It's getting old now, literally, and to me 9,000 posts in less than four years is a lot. 200 posts a month on a tivo forum is excessive, regardless of the subject you're posting about...it's still Tivo.
> 
> There is a lot of obsession going on in your house, and maybe it's time to do the unthinkable...get rid of Tivo altogether. Both you and your wife may find it liberating that you're not tied to the machine anymore, and maybe you can move on to more important things...like real life.


If you're complaining about 200 posts per month (it's actually less than that btw) you need to complain to quite a few users here besides me. My post count is lower than many. If you're complaining that I let a thread last this long, there is no rule or expiration date set on threads. You have the option of not reading this thread if you're getting bored by it. I have gotten the impression that not everybody is bored from it.

Also, I don't need liberation from my TiVo, because frankly, I don't spend that much time on it. Percentagewise, the vast majority of my life is not spent on TiVo related activities.

Lastly, I haven't been posting about the same thing these 3 years. The fact that she's infringed onto a TiVo that has been exclusivly assigned to me is a fairly recent development.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> Lastly, I haven't been posting about the same thing these 3 years. The fact that she's infringed onto a TiVo that has been exclusivly assigned to me is a fairly recent development.


but even if you put a 300 gig drive in - she will still at some point be back to your TiVo becasue she has filled up her space again.

ask yourself why she needs to make so many VCR tapes she never watches? What void is she filling by collecting shows?


----------



## timckelley

ZeoTiVo said:


> but even if you put a 300 gig drive in - she will still at some point be back to your TiVo becasue she has filled up her space again.
> 
> ask yourself why she needs to make so many VCR tapes she never watches? What void is she filling by collecting shows?


I've talked to her about this. She stopped working when our son was born almost 7 years ago, and I think she doesn't feel completely fulfulled as her career has ended. I've told her she's welcome to start working again - we'd have to find childcare. But so far she doesn't want to. As for saving all those tapes? Much earlier in this thread, I might have mentioned that she disposed of a whole bunch of them, so she doesn't own as many tapes as she used to. But she's slowly starting to build them up again. She claims she wants them to watch in her old age, or for our son to have access to when he gets older. She actually regrets disposing of some of those tapes. She felt pressured into it, and regrets doing it.

Also, I'm pretty sure I mentioned my son is autistic and still can't speak and needs a lot of supervision, and this puts a lot of of stress on her.

As for the 300 gig only delaying the problem - I have already addressed this in recent posts

a) She only has 80G now, which is really not very big. In a way, I don't blame her for having space problems. 80G is not much - I think if she's going to have and use a TiVo, it's not unreasonable for her to have more than a measly 80G.

b) I'm hoping that if she still fills up a 300G drive (sHe has never had that massive a backlog in her life yet, so I'm not prepared to predict with certainty she's going to now), then I'd like to think she'd see the awesome size of the backlog and face facts that she's recording too much stuff and start pruning her SPs.

c) Even if the above fails, well, the last time I upgraded I got 2 1/2 years of happiness on my TiVo with no space problems. Maybe we'll get another 2 1/2 years of happiness out of this upgrade. Maybe more, because this is a bigger upgrade than last time. That alone is worth it.


----------



## greg_burns

timckelley said:


> BTW, even though the Western Digital says 320 MB, the comments from the consumers say that when formatted, it's just under 300 MB.


They all format like that. Drive manufacturers let their ad departments lie. Must drive their engineers mad. I have that WD in my Tivo. Would highly recommend.


----------



## timckelley

greg_burns said:


> They all format like that. Drive manufacturers let their ad departments lie. Must drive their engineers mad. I have that WD in my Tivo. Would highly recommend.


Thanks for this feedback. 

JYoung likes the Seagate, which is cheaper, but you and one other person have recommended the WD. Hmmmmm.... hard decision.


----------



## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Thanks for this feedback.
> 
> JYoung likes the Seagate, which is cheaper, but you and one other person have recommended the WD. Hmmmmm.... hard decision.


Well, the Seagates still come with a 5 year warranty while the Western Digital's come with a 1 or 3 year warranty.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with the WDs, I have two in my server. Of course the OS drives are Seagates and I have yet to see a Barracuda crap out in less then five years.

I'm personally avoiding Maxtor right now, I've seen a number of them crap out in the past year (and yes I know that Seagate bought them)


----------



## timckelley

JYoung said:


> Well, the Seagates still come with a 5 year warranty while the Western Digital's come with a 1 or 3 year warranty.
> 
> I don't think that there is anything wrong with the WDs, I have two in my server. Of course the OS drives are Seagates and I have yet to see a Barracuda crap out in less then five years.
> 
> I'm personally avoiding Maxtor right now, I've seen a number of them crap out in the past year (and yes I know that Seagate bought them)


Interestingly, the one TiVo hard drive that went bad on me was a Maxtor.


----------



## greg_burns

JYoung said:


> Well, the Seagates still come with a 5 year warranty while the Western Digital's come with a 1 or 3 year warranty.


The WD linked had a 3-yr. But I would choose WD for its acoustic noise level. I know you can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to quiet down Hitachi, Maxtor and WD drives. Don't believe it works on Seagates. (Maybe they have their own software, or maybe it isn't even necessary.)


----------



## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> a) She only has 80G now, which is really not very big. In a way, I don't blame her for having space problems. 80G is not much - I think if she's going to have and use a TiVo, it's not unreasonable for her to have more than a measly 80G.


on that I do agree. I have an 80 gig Dual Tuner and it drove me nuts keeping things from falling off it. The new TV season would just not work on it at all.

I put in a 500Gig Maxtor recently and am much happier with the room. I currently have about 200 suggestions on it 

The maxtor was well priced at $180 from outpost.com but the drive is fairly noisy when it writes. I would not get it again. Good thing it is in the family room where the noise is not a big deal.


----------



## greg_burns

ZeoTiVo said:


> The maxtor was well priced at $180 from outpost.com but the drive is fairly noisy when it writes.


Did you try the Hitachi Feature Tool or AMSET (Maxtor's own acustic managment software) on it to try quieting it down? You can still pull it and do it now. It doesn't alter the data on the drive.


----------



## RavenFan

RangersRBack said:


> Yet three years later you're still posting about the exact same issue...your wife infringing on your tivo space. It's getting old now, literally, and to me 9,000 posts in less than four years is a lot. 200 posts a month on a tivo forum is excessive, regardless of the subject you're posting about...it's still Tivo.


And exactly how does the existence of this thread negatively impact your life so much that you feel compelled to repeat your same argument with this guy over and over again?

Read the thread. Don't read the thread. Who cares? Just understand that we all have the right to post TiVo related issues to this forum. If you won't like the thread, don't read it.

By the way, this thread contains what? 13 pages? In 3 years? That averages out to about 1/3 of a page per month. Not that much in the big scheme of things.


----------



## RangersRBack

RavenFan said:


> And exactly how does the existence of this thread negatively impact your life so much that you feel compelled to repeat your same argument with this guy over and over again?
> 
> Read the thread. Don't read the thread. Who cares? Just understand that we all have the right to post TiVo related issues to this forum. If you won't like the thread, don't read it.
> 
> By the way, this thread contains what? 13 pages? In 3 years? That averages out to about 1/3 of a page per month. Not that much in the big scheme of things.


Relax. The point I was trying to make is that he has other issues besides which hard drive to buy. How does the existence of my post negatively impact your life so much that you feel compelled to answer? Read my post, don't read my post, who cares? Just understand that we all have the right to post. If you don't like my post, don't read it.

And if you took the time to read the thread you would see that others agree with me, but I'm the one who came out and said it a little more directly than most.


----------



## Polcamilla

First of all, don't stop posting because checking into this thread every few months is my own personal General Hospital. 

Our first TiVo was 60 hrs. and did fine by us for many years before we bumped it up to 100 or so. You're right that the 300 hr. machine will keep her occupied for a while, but it won't be a permanent solution. Eventually, 300 hrs. won't be enough, then 500 hrs. won't be enough, etc. As you said, she already regrets getting rid of those tapes she purged. She's still hoarding and she's able to see that more space will allow her to save more (even if she doesn't *mean* to---how many years has she been saying she'd find time to 'catch up'?). If you're skeptical, consider that when you offered her the 300 hr. box *plus* the DVD recorder *plus* the VCR, she said *you* were being selfish for not letting her use your 100 hr. machine as well. There will never be enough space to permanently sate her.

Having the whole family take a break from the TiVo probably is an excellent idea. No, you aren't addicted to your TiVo, but your relationship with your wife with regards to the TiVos has become very complex. She may not be able to work through the issues she needs to address if you still have a functioning TiVo. I know, even if I knew I had a problem, I would definitely resent my husband for indulging in my addiction around me (even if it was when I was out of the house/asleep) much like an alcoholic has trouble seeing others drink socially. You are watching your TiVo responsibly, but together you and your wife are really struggling to manage your TiVo resources and the 'mine/yours' approach just isn't working (and won't work again once she fills up her 300 hrs.). You need a dramaticly different approach to resolve the issue and if no one is using TiVo, then everyone can work together on finding ways to meet their needs TiVo-less. Yeah, you'll lose some time, but if it strengthens your relationship, it will hopefully be worth the sacrifice.

Oh, and if you do upgrade (and it sounds like you're going in that direction) and are worried about her missing programming, I have an idea. Buy another Series 2, set up the shows she wants for the time hers will be in the shop, subscribe the machine (hrm, not in that order), upgrade hers, then cancel the subscription anre return the S2 (once she's watched/offloaded what she recorded, that is). If she doesn't get the shows off the "rented" machine before the return deadline, then she'll have to cough up the price of the machine. *And* once you've upgraded, don't just hide your remote. Our old S1/DTiVo/S2 remotes work completely interchangeably in our house, so she'd be able to use her remote to set up shows on your TiVo. Clear her stuff off, then set up parental controls so she can't set up anything to record on your machine. That will probably upset her, but you can tell her you love her and that you got her a Netflix subscription. Not only can she get movies, but they have a *lot* of boxed sets of television programs. About the only things she'd miss are daytime programming and sports (and shows so bad *nobody* wants them on DVD). 

Good luck!


----------



## JYoung

Polcamilla said:


> Oh, and if you do upgrade (and it sounds like you're going in that direction) and are worried about her missing programming, I have an idea. Buy another Series 2, set up the shows she wants for the time hers will be in the shop, subscribe the machine (hrm, not in that order), upgrade hers, then cancel the subscription anre return the S2 (once she's watched/offloaded what she recorded, that is). If she doesn't get the shows off the "rented" machine before the return deadline, then she'll have to cough up the price of the machine. *And* once you've upgraded, don't just hide your remote. Our old S1/DTiVo/S2 remotes work completely interchangeably in our house, so she'd be able to use her remote to set up shows on your TiVo. Clear her stuff off, then set up parental controls so she can't set up anything to record on your machine. That will probably upset her, but you can tell her you love her and that you got her a Netflix subscription. Not only can she get movies, but they have a *lot* of boxed sets of television programs. About the only things she'd miss are daytime programming and sports (and shows so bad *nobody* wants them on DVD).
> 
> Good luck!


If He gets another Series 2, he'd better work fast and get it from somewhere with a liberal return policy.

Due to the One year commitment of TiVo service that is now required, of course.


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## Polcamilla

Hrm...TiVo no longer allows you to cancel within 30 days and get a full refund on the subscription if you're not satisfied?


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## Genkitty

Oh... my.

I just read this read from start to finish. I think I must go hug my sweeties now. We've survived for YEARS (since 9/2000) with our original Series 1 35 hour DirecTiVo (3 adults in the house, 40-some season passes, no archiving). The second TiVo mentioned in my sig was just purchased off ebay and is en-route - we were spurred to upgrade because of the Series3 buzz which jostled us out of our rut.

You have my sincerest sympathies, Tim.


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## ZeoTiVo

Polcamilla said:


> Hrm...TiVo no longer allows you to cancel within 30 days and get a full refund on the subscription if you're not satisfied?


you can get a full refund on hardware or bundle - no problem and no penalty if within the first 30 days. 
now prepaid cards are another matter


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## gonzotek

Official Text of the 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee, culled from the TiVo Service Payment Plans page.


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## JYoung

ZeoTiVo said:


> you can get a full refund on hardware or bundle - no problem and no penalty if within the first 30 days.
> now prepaid cards are another matter


You're assuming that she'll be done with it in 30 days...........


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## ZeoTiVo

JYoung said:


> You're assuming that she'll be done with it in 30 days...........


No, I am saying TiVo will honor a 30 day money back guarantee.

Whether she will fill up another TiVo and latch onto it or be done with it in 30 days I am not commenting on at all


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## timckelley

Well, I have had the new hard drive here for a couple of weeks, but I haven't installed it yet. It has to be on a Friday or Saturday evening, because I'm going to do the lengthy copy operation of her backlog onto it overnight which means the installation must begin at night and complete in the morning. (i.e. I'll be sleeping during the copy operation.) So I can't really do it on a morning when I go to work. So far, her To Do List has prevented me from doing it on any weekend. I told her I don't want to put this off, because for one thing, what if the hard drive is bad? I would need to make a warranty claim during the warranty period.

But tonight I intend to do this. In 15 minutes, her To Do List is about to hit a gap, and starting 10:30 tonight her To Do List will be idle until 2:30 tommorrow afternoon. This presents a window of opportunity for me to upgrade her. So barring technical difficulties, our Holy Ground rules of my TiVo is mine, and hers is hers will be reinstated by tommorrow morning.  I've just talked to her tonight and gotten her to sign off on this renewed treaty/contract/understanding.  

She blames a lot of her backlog on trying to keep up with General Hospital, and she said she's seriously considering canceling that SP.


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## murgatroyd

Good luck with the upgrade, Tim. 

Jan


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## Kharizzmatik

lol I just read all 14 pages of this, when I already should've been asleep... Definitely interesting. I think those hassling him for "putting up with" his wife and her habits should really get off of his back. Everyone handles situations differently, he chose to try to work with her through it all which I think is wonderful. It may have been a pain in the rear and 3 years later he may still be back at square one dealing with the same issue, but marriage is all about cooperation and working things through.

But before i went to sleep I wanted to pipe in and just add that i watch General hospital every day, and have since I was born (my mom watched it every day...). You honestly could delete two-three weeks worth of shows and she'd probably still know exactly everything that was going on in the new episodes. They tend to drag out story lines ridiculously lol.....  I'll miss a weeks worth of shows and then pick back up and it'll be like I never missed a single moment...


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## gonzotek

Kharizzmatik said:


> lol I just read all 14 pages of this, when I already should've been asleep... Definitely interesting. I think those hassling him for "putting up with" his wife and her habits should really get off of his back. Everyone handles situations differently, he chose to try to work with her through it all which I think is wonderful. It may have been a pain in the rear and 3 years later he may still be back at square one dealing with the same issue, but marriage is all about cooperation and working things through.
> 
> But before i went to sleep I wanted to pipe in and just add that i watch General hospital every day, and have since I was born (my mom watched it every day...). You honestly could delete two-three weeks worth of shows and she'd probably still know exactly everything that was going on in the new episodes. They tend to drag out story lines ridiculously lol.....  I'll miss a weeks worth of shows and then pick back up and it'll be like I never missed a single moment...


My fiancée and her best friend were GH-aholoics. It started to draw me in for a few weeks, but when I realized that nothing ever fully resolves, I quit watching. My fiancée quit a few weeks later of her own free will(really...). Her friend had a different solution: when she starts getting back-logged, she'll just watch the friday episodes, which are apparently the 'good ones', where all the action of the week generally takes place.

Hope the upgrade went smoothly, Tim!


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## timckelley

gonzotek said:


> Hope the upgrade went smoothly, Tim!












   (I erased personally identifying info from the pic.)

So: even more hours than I'd hoped. (340 hours now, more than quadrupling her space.  ) -- of course that's 340 hours of basic quality, which in the real world is much less. Still, her space is more than quadrupled, because before she had 80 hours of basic quality.

BTW, isn't there a screen that will show me how many hours there are at Basic vs Good vs High vs Best quality?

Edit: I just notice the pic is gone. It's because my geocities account was purged some time ago. When I get home, I'll upload the pic to my photobucket account, as I know I still have the pic.


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## timckelley

However, to answer your question, it wasn't all that smooth. I got stuck on the part where I needed to download the MFS utilities for SIX HOURS. 

The last time I did an upgrade, I made a boot diskette with these utilities, but that only works if the HD < 137 GB. Since my new HD = 300GB, I needed a boot CD, not a boot diskette. I struggled quite a bit in burning one that would actually be bootable. Windows XP burning commands didn't seem to work, so then I downloaded a trial version of NERO, and that didn't work either. Finally after a LONG time, I decided to install NERO on my second computer. I immediately had better luck, as I could now see not just an ISO file burning, but the files that are inside the ISO file were starting to be viewable, where before they weren't. But I kept erroring out towards the end of the burn. I went through more than a dozen CDs before I got a successful burn. It could be my CDs are old and gone bad, or maybe, when I was tweaking the NERO settings (burn speed, etc), I just stumbled on a setting that worked.

Once I got that bootable CD, the rest was easy. I'm saving that CD in case I ever do another upgrade. Next upgrade will be easy, now that I have this CD.


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## JYoung

timckelley said:


> BTW, isn't there a screen that will show me how many hours there are at Basic vs Good vs High vs Best quality?


Yes.
Messages & Settings - Settings - Recording - Recording Quality.

I give her six months before she starts encroaching in your TiVo again....


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## timckelley

Ever since I upgraded her TiVo I've lived in TiVo happiness once again.  :up:

She still has some stuff on my TiVo, but she's steadily draining it off, and there is no inflow of shows to counteract the outflow. (i.e. all her new To Do's are going to her TiVo, not mine.) So her list of shows on my TiVo is steadily shrinking. I now have two screens of Suggestions. 

I actually have more of my own backlog than I've had in a long time. But if it gets too out of hand, I can suspend or cancel one of my SPs, or let KUSN handle it. But the main thing is, I have control over my TiVo.


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## echodave

Funniest.

Thread.

Ever.

Thank you, thank you, for not only making me realize that having five tivos isn't insane, but that my wife isn't as crazy as I'd feared.


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## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Ever since I upgraded her TiVo I've lived in TiVo happiness once again.  :up:
> 
> She still has some stuff on my TiVo, but she's steadily draining it off, and there is no inflow of shows to counteract the outflow. (i.e. all her new To Do's are going to her TiVo, not mine.) So her list of shows on my TiVo is steadily shrinking. I now have two screens of Suggestions.
> 
> I actually have more of my own backlog than I've had in a long time. But if it gets too out of hand, I can suspend or cancel one of my SPs, or let KUSN handle it. But the main thing is, I have control over my TiVo.


I really don't use Suggestions.
I have 200 GB on one TiVo and 240 GB on the other and I often save shows for viewing during the lull periods.


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## zilogky

Buy her a Tivo and have her pay the monthly fee on it if she wants to fill it up with her videos. I believe Tivo has something where they only charge you 6.95 a month for the second Tivo, check it out. If it is true just buy a bigger Tivo for yourself and give the smaller one to her.


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## JustAllie

zilogky said:


> Buy her a Tivo and have her pay the monthly fee on it if she wants to fill it up with her videos. I believe Tivo has something where they only charge you 6.95 a month for the second Tivo, check it out. If it is true just buy a bigger Tivo for yourself and give the smaller one to her.


Wow, his first post, and it's a smeek! 

Welcome to the forum, zilogky!


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## revemd

You could also sneakily rejig the settings on season passes so that it only keeps 3 or 4 episodes before deleting them. This saved my marriage. But shhh. Don't tell.

--Dio


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## timckelley

I was alarmed yesterday when I took a peek at my wife's recently enlarged TiVo and found only 4 shows in Recently Deleted. It made me think it was already mostly filled up.  That would have been horrible as it would make me think that my TiVo might soon get retargeted by her ravenous TiVo-appetite. 

But I talked to her, and it turns out that she oftens manually deletes stuff from Recently Deleted. I told her that's not needed, because RD doesn't subtract from available space. Her reasoning is that she likes to delete stuff she knows she will absolutely never need to undelete, so that, in a way, she is controlling which part of the RD folders deletes first, thus sort of protecting the RD entries that might have a small chance of eventually needing to be undeleted.

Whew! She still has lots of space. 


Oh, by the way, she's been steadily taping off the General Hospital eps from my TiVo, and there is only one ep left on it. Plus there's just a few assorted over entries on my Now Playing that are hers. I notice though that there are at least a dozen General Hospital eps on her TiVo. Plus, I bet she hasn't had time to watch the taped backlog of General Hospital, so when I remember, I think I'll ask her if she's still considering giving up her General Hospital.

Oh, I guess I could also mention to her a tip that I read earlier in this thread from sombody: that she could just skip two weeks of it, and still figure out what she missed by watching the later eps.


----------



## timckelley

WOW! I just got a chuckle out of a conversation I just now had with my wife. I asked her what the latest is with her idea of nixing her General Hospital SP and her stoppage of watching that show. I noticed she has as lot of eps of it on her TiVo.

She told me that she wants to watch it until they kill off 'Manny' (whoever that is), and see a little of the aftermath of it, then she'll stop watching the show, because the rest of the subplots are getting silly lately. I then asked her how far behind she is in watching the show.

She said she's up the JUNE 29TH EPISODE!!     . WOW! That means she's got THREE MONTHS of that show's eps stored up waiting to watch. I know that at least a month of that, maybe more, is sitting on VHS tapes, and the rest is in her Now Playing. I told her that this is an amazing amount of backlog. She replied that she's an amazing person. 

The other problem is that since she's this far behind, she doesn't know the air date of the last eps she'll be interested in watching. In fact, Manny's death may have happened weeks or months ago, and she doesn't know it yet, so she may be needlessly recording more eps of the SP. She won't know until she watches it. So meanwhile, to be safe, she still records the daily ep of General Hospital. Whenever she catches up and watches all the eps from June 29th until the point where she's satisified, then she'll delete the SP and also delete all the excess eps she's got on her TiVo.

So at least there's a light at the end of this tunnel.


----------



## TivoZorro

I have some good news and some bad news about the death of Manny.

A blog indicates that Manny was killed off the week of 7/10/06. Hence the good news. Here is the link with the details.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/07/10/110236.php

But after all this is a soap and it indicates that Manny may not be dead alfter all, hence the bad news. There may be no light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## timckelley

TivoZorro said:


> But after all this is a soap and it indicates that Manny may not be dead alfter all, hence the bad news. There may be no light at the end of the tunnel.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!     

Hopefully she still deletes the SP. 

I have a vested interest in this because if she deletes the SP, it'll take longer for her to fill up her new upgraded TiVo.


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## JYoung

You'd better encourage her to kill the SP.
As I said earlier, if she's that far behind, she will never catch up.

However, if she is firm in her killing the SP after the "death of Manny", she only has about two weeks left to watch.


----------



## timckelley

Oh by the way, she has officially killed the General Hospital SP. I'm not sure if she's still watching the backlog or not though. Hopefully she's done watching it. She told me a couple weeks ago that the SP has been axed. But the funny thing is, just the other day she told me that Luke and Laura are going to be on General Hosptal together again, so I wonder how she knows this if she axed the SP? I think I should ask her this.


----------



## TivoZorro

timckelley said:


> Oh by the way, she has officially killed the General Hospital SP. I'm not sure if she's still watching the backlog or not though. Hopefully she's done watching it. She told me a couple weeks ago that the SP has been axed. But the funny thing is, just the other day she told me that Luke and Laura are going to be on General Hosptal together again, so I wonder how she knows this if she axed the SP? I think I should ask her this.


Maybe she's reading the latest soap magazines or the soap internet sites. I think it goes like this, Laura has awoken from a three year coma ......


----------



## JYoung

timckelley said:


> I was alarmed yesterday when I took a peek at my wife's recently enlarged TiVo and found only 4 shows in Recently Deleted. It made me think it was already mostly filled up.  That would have been horrible as it would make me think that my TiVo might soon get retargeted by her ravenous TiVo-appetite.
> 
> But I talked to her, and it turns out that she oftens manually deletes stuff from Recently Deleted. I told her that's not needed, because RD doesn't subtract from available space. Her reasoning is that she likes to delete stuff she knows she will absolutely never need to undelete, so that, in a way, she is controlling which part of the RD folders deletes first, thus sort of protecting the RD entries that might have a small chance of eventually needing to be undeleted.


Hmmmm, I wonder if there isn't another reason she's deleting from Recently Deleted.


----------



## timckelley

Oh, I caught her watching General Hospital last night, and she admits she's back to watching it again. I think the return of Luke and Laura was too much for her to resist. I'm curious what sort of backlog she has of General Hospital, but she was in sort of a snippy mood last night, so I didn't ask. Well my upgrade to her TiVo is still working nicely though, and she still is off of my TiVo.

I'm actually down to less than 2 screens of suggestions on my TiVo, but it's my fault, not my wife's. I'm caught up on all my shows, except I must have a month worth of Simpsons eps on there. That's clearly too much, and I consider the Simpsons my lowest priority SP, so I'm considering just deleting a bunch of eps off my NP. I'm not deleting the SP because I watch Simpsons sometimes. But I don't need 60 eps on my NP.

I also have Simpsons set as KUSN, so I really could just let it fill up and then I'll lose my old eps. The only reason I'm considering not doing that is because I like having a certain amount of Suggestions, so I don't think I'm going to let my TiVo fill up.

Unlike my wife though, I don't feel compelled to watch all those back eps. I'll just delete them.  (I can't remember if I said earlier in the thread, that the reason there are so many of these eps is because Simpsons shows reruns all the time, but they're not reruns to me, because I haven't been watching the Simpsons for quite a few years. I must say I like the show, now that I'm watching it.)


----------



## jtlytle

1. Make sure all shows are set for BASIC quality..
2. Buy a new S2 DT 186 hours TiVo for YOURSELF.. then..
3. learn how to say " Tough Sh*t" if she compalins that HER TiVo is full and want to use yours.


----------



## timckelley

My shows are all set at Best Quality.


----------



## jtlytle

timckelley said:


> My shows are all set at Best Quality.


That explains why your hard drive got full too fast.


----------



## timckelley

jtlytle said:


> That explains why your hard drive got full too fast.


Yes, but I'm not complaining. I have plenty of space, even at Best Quality. Actually, my hard drive really did not get full 'too fast'. It's filled with dozens of eps of "The Simpsons". I really don't need that many eps, and and so I'll probably delete a bunch without watching them. I have no desire to have half a hundred backlogged eps that I feel I must watch. I mainly just want my TiVo to always have shows available for me to watch that I like, and I also don't want to miss any episodes of any of my SPs except for "The Simpsons". (It's okay if I miss eps of the Simpsons.)

My TiVo is already meeting all these needs currently, so I have no need to go to Basic Quality, nor do I need more hard drive space. The space I have, even at Best Quality, provides me with more than enough eps on all Season Passes to achieve all my above goals.


----------



## jtlytle

My apology, I didnt realized that this threat started 3 years ago, I am sure the problem has solved by now.


----------



## Havana Brown

timckelley said:


> Her reasoning is that she likes to delete stuff she knows she will absolutely never need to undelete, so that, in a way, she is controlling which part of the RD folders deletes first, thus sort of protecting the RD entries that might have a small chance of eventually needing to be undeleted.


I think the only times I've undeleted is when I forgot to keep the episode for someone else to watch. I don't usually re-watch shows, and my tivo is pretty full that I don't have time to catch up on lots of things. I can't remember the last DVD I saw because I still have too much stuff on the tivos.


----------



## RangersRBack

jtlytle said:


> My apology, I didnt realized that this threat started 3 years ago, I am sure the problem has solved by now.


LOL. Yeah, THREE YEARS AGO!

Personally I think this thread has another 5-10 years in it, but that's just me. The characters on Lost will figure out how to beam themselves back to the states before this guy and his wife figure out how to manage Tivo, and the rest of their life!


----------



## Havana Brown

RangersRBack said:


> LOL. Yeah, THREE YEARS AGO!
> 
> Personally I think this thread has another 5-10 years in it,


Unless Tivo broke up their marriage.


----------



## RangersRBack

Havana Brown said:


> Unless Tivo broke up their marriage.


It's much worse than that. I love Tivo, but in this case Tivo broke up all vestiges of common sense!

You have to invest a few hours and read the entire thread to believe it, and also believe that three years later we're discussing basically the SAME THING!

This is my favorite thread of all time!


----------



## Havana Brown

RangersRBack said:


> It's much worse than that. I love Tivo, but in this case Tivo broke up all vestiges of common sense!
> 
> You have to invest a few hours and read the entire thread to believe it!


I have (just didn't want to say it)


----------



## edickison78

Speaking as a wife, yours needs to learn to share. I'm all for upgrading, have just done so myself. An even better idea would be to tell her to get her own TiVo, these here be modern times


----------



## RangersRBack

edickison78 said:


> Speaking as a wife, yours needs to learn to share. I'm all for upgrading, have just done so myself. An even better idea would be to tell her to get her own TiVo, these here be modern times


Wow I wish someone would have thought of posting that THREE YEARS AGO!

Oh wait, someone did. Two years ago too. And last year for that matter. Still, the thread rolls on...........

Question, when a thread hits it's five year anniversary mark, and WE'RE STILL DISCUSSING THE EXACT SAME ISSUE, does the original poster get a present?

Or does it have to wait until the 10 or 15 year mark? Because don't worry, we'll get there.


----------



## Havana Brown

For 5 years it's wood, for 10 it's tin and for 15 it's crystal.


----------



## DevdogAZ

edickison78 said:


> Speaking as a wife, yours needs to learn to share. I'm all for upgrading, have just done so myself. An even better idea would be to tell her to get her own TiVo, these here be modern times


She does have her own TiVo. It's full and she's now wanting to add Season Passes to Tim's.


----------



## RangersRBack

devdogaz said:


> She does have her own TiVo. It's full and she's now wanting to add Season Passes to Tim's.


Just like three years ago.............


----------



## ZeoTiVo

devdogaz said:


> She does have her own TiVo. It's full and she's now wanting to add Season Passes to Tim's.


Tim needs to make use of the new technology that was developed and came out while this thread was running its course. I say he gets a Series 2 and then turns on the Kid Zone feature so his wife can watch shows on his TiVo but can not add new scheduled recordings


----------



## RangersRBack

ZeoTiVo said:


> Tim needs to make use of the new technology that was developed and came out while this thread was running its course. I say he gets a Series 2 and then turns on the Kid Zone feature so his wife can watch shows on his TiVo but can not add new scheduled recordings


Hey there's an idea, let's talk about what happened since this thread started, and all the got resolved or changed in the world while our poor friend still can't figure out how he and his wife can't share Tivo:

1. The Red Sox won a world series.
2. The NHL shut down for an entire season, came back, played an entire season, and moved onto the next one.
3. Lebron James moved from high school to th NBA.
4. Britney got married and divorced. Sort of.
5. Everyone started drinking green tea.
6. The Chicago Bears went from laughingstock to good.
7. The Chicago Cubs went from laughingstock to laughingstock.
8. One season of the Sopranos aired.
9. American Idol took over America every Spring.
10. Jack Bauer saved the world THREE TIMES!

(What else am I missing?)

Yet this guy and his wife are still having basically the SAME PROBLEM regarding TV!


----------



## timckelley

I should clear up misconceptions that the same problems have occurred for the last 3 years, and also the misconception that 3 years ago she was hogging my TiVo.

3 1/2 years we got our first TiVo. Within a few months I started having the 'running out of space problems'. Then about 3 years ago, my wife totally caught up with her backlog, and there was no problem. By December, 2003, the problem was back. January, 2004 I bought a second TiVo, and gave her the original TiVo. That solved our problems. That is, until this year. Note that's a two-and-a-half year continuous stretch of no problems. It was only this year that she had taken over a large fraction of my TiVo. I then upgraded her from 80 hours (basic quality) to more than 300 hours (basic quality). That instantly solved the problem, and here I sit right now with no problem.

So no, you're mistaken when you say it's been 3 years of the same problem.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> I should clear up misconceptions that the same problems have occurred for the last 3 years, and also the misconception that 3 years ago she was hogging my TiVo.
> 
> 3 1/2 years we got our first TiVo. Within a few months I started having the 'running out of space problems'. Then about 3 years ago, my wife totally caught up with her backlog, and there was no problem. By December, 2003, the problem was back. January, 2004 I bought a second TiVo, and gave her the original TiVo. That solved our problems. That is, until this year. Note that's a two-and-a-half year continuous stretch of no problems. It was only this year that she had taken over a large fraction of my TiVo. I then upgraded her from 80 hours (basic quality) to more than 300 hours (basic quality). That instantly solved the problem, and here I sit right now with no problem.
> 
> So no, you're mistaken when you say it's been 3 years of the same problem.


Dude just a month ago you're posting about too many SP's and backlogs, and filled hard drives, just like you were three years ago. That's three solid years of the same basic problem!

And read the thread, there have been fixes before over the years, but inevitably you get back to the SAME PROBLEM!

So don't worry, if you have no problem at the moment I promise you this thread will start up again in a week or a month with 'My wife is now doing blah blah blah, even though she said she wouldn't', and now I have a Tivo problem again........

I'm one of the morons who reads this whole thread and has been paying attention, and every time you think you have the problem solved, or your wife figured out, the SAME THING HAPPENS!

This thread is funnier than Entourage! And lasts a lot longer too!


----------



## marrone

Seems like an external RAID would help here.

Wasn't someone selling a 1.4TB raid a while back for a Tivo?

-Mike


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Dude just a month ago you're posting about too many SP's and backlogs, and filled hard drives, just like you were three years ago. That's three solid years of the same basic problem!


three years ago: yes
one month ago: yes

three solid years: no. The key word is solid. Like I said, there were two and a half solid years of no problem in between 3 years ago and 1 month ago.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> three years ago: yes
> one month ago: yes
> 
> three solid years: no. The key word is solid. Like I said, there were two and a half solid years of no problem in between 3 years ago and 1 month ago.


Two and a half solid years of no problems between 3 years ago and 1 month ago? Are you serious? Please check your posts dated 6/3/2003 (the original post), 7/22/2004, 8/4/2005, and the last two months. No problems??? Please. Your problems are obviously ongoing.

And there are many many other posts by you other than on those dates.

No problems? Did your wife delete part of your brain when she should have been deleting recordings?


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Two and a half solid years of no problems between 3 years ago and 1 month ago? Are you serious? Please check your posts dated 6/3/2003 (the original post), 7/22/2004, 8/4/2005, and the last two months. No problems??? Please. Your problems are obviously ongoing.
> 
> And there are many many other posts by you other than on those dates.
> 
> No problems? Did your wife delete part of your brain when she should have been deleting recordings?


8/4/2005 is right in the middle of the two-and and a half year range where I wasn't having problems. I checked that post and don't see any reference to my problem of running out of TiVo space. The only problem I see there is one my wife had (not any problem I was having), separate from the basic problem you're claiming to exist for a solid three years. That was the post where my wife was trying to deal with her TiVo addiction. Reread that post and you'll there is no space shortage problem being dealt with at that time.

If anything, that post illustrates how this is not 3 years of the same problem.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> 8/4/2005 is right in the middle of the two-and and a half year range where I wasn't having problems. I checked that post and don't see any reference to my problem of running out of TiVo space. The only problem I see there is one my wife had (not any problem I was having), separate from the basic problem you're claiming to exist for a solid three years. That was the post where my wife was trying to deal with her TiVo addiction. Reread that post and you'll there is no space shortage problem being dealt with at that time.
> 
> If anything, that post illustrates how this is not 3 years of the same problem.


You're talking semantics to avoid the basic issue.

What I said was, it's three years of the same basic problem...you and your wife having problems living together with Tivo. Three solid years.

Sure the specifics may change from year to year...uprade issues, tape issues, general hospital issues, whatever...but the bottom line is you've been having the SAME BASIC PROBLEM for three solid years.

I promise you this thread will still be alive five years from now, with a different yet similar problem regarding how you and your wife can't figure out how to live together with Tivo.

Here's a thought...throw Tivo out the door and just watch some TV together, whatever is on...together.


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> You're talking semantics to avoid the basic issue.


I submit it is you talking semantics if now you're lumping in her desire to watch less TV with my problem of lack of space. Still, your comment of 3 solid years is still completely false even if I were to include that secondary problem. If you look at my number of posts here divided by time, you'll see I post to this thread relatively seldom. That's because the vast majority of the time, I'm not having problems to report. Like I said, I personally didn't have problems for 2 1/2 SOLID YEARS. My wife might have, but even then, hers weren't solidly throughout that 2 1/2 years.

Overall, my TiVoing is going quite smoothly, even now as I speak, so I have no need nor desire to get rid of it. It's working as designed.

Watching TV together, as you suggest also isn't practical since our free time is usually not at the same time. That's why we have TiVos to begin with.


----------



## jtlytle

RangersRBack said:


> No problems? Did your wife delete part of your brain when she should have been deleting recordings?


no no, It's "WIFE" thing you don't understand.. Unless you have one, Well, Maybe it's YOU We are confused with..


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> I submit it is you talking semantics if now you're lumping in her desire to watch less TV with my problem of lack of space. Still, your comment of 3 solid years is still completely false even if I were to include that secondary problem. If you look at my number of posts here divided by time, you'll see I post to this thread relatively seldom. That's because the vast majority of the time, I'm not having problems to report. Like I said, I personally didn't have problems for 2 1/2 SOLID YEARS. My wife might have, but even then, hers weren't solidly throughout that 2 1/2 years.
> 
> Overall, my TiVoing is going quite smoothly, even now as I speak, so I have no need nor desire to get rid of it. It's working as designed.
> 
> Watching TV together, as you suggest also isn't practical since our free time is usually not at the same time. That's why we have TiVos to begin with.


Yeah. Smoothly. If everything was going smoothly this thread would go away, but it never does. And never will. Trust me, in ten years we'll still be discussing the SAME BASIC PROBLEM.

To jlytle, yes I am married, and every time I read another post from this guy, I walk over and give my wife a kiss. She has no idea that I'm thanking her for not being this woman. And we have an actual relationship, where we watch some TV together and some not, and actually do things together that don't involve the TV as well.

Sounds like this woman spends her entire life trying to catch up to shows she recorded.


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Yeah. Smoothly.


Exactly. Long periods of smoothness interspersed with shorter periods of roughness. 



> If everything was going smoothly this thread would go away, but it never does.


I don't follow that logic. Once things go smoothly doesn't mean it will permanantly remain smooth.



> And we have an actual relationship, where we watch some TV together and some not, and actually do things together that don't involve the TV as well.


We also do many things together. It's these other things that are partly responsible for her backlog. I don't see how you can possibly infer that because she has a backlog, that we don't do things together. For example, a week and a half ago, my wife and I and my son all drove out to Central Texas and spent the day there hiking and climbing to the peak of "Enchanted Rock" (A site in a state park.) Where in any of my posts have I implied we don't do things together?


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> True, I'm stronger than her, and I could put my foot down, but the reality of the situation is that being macho and dominant creates more problems than it solves. She can get emotional and start yelling and crying, and generally make life difficult (including threatening divorce, etc.) This is an atmosphere I really don't want to live with. She already yells enough and has enough anger already, I don't need the stress of more yelling and arguing, and my son certainly doesn't need to witness that. (Not to mention she's being medically treated for depression by her psychologist, and having an autistic son that needs almost constant supervision, and protection from dangers - like being run over by cars, among other things - even now at his current age of almost 7 - doesn't make things easier.)
> 
> So this is why I don't always put my foot down. But I haven't been lying down totally like a wussy either. I've had quite a few conversions with her, and she knows my feelings on this. Just today, I asked her if, after the upgrade to over 300 hours, will she then agree to stay off my TiVo. At first she said "no", because her TiVo is hooked to a DVD burner, but mine is hooked to a VHS machine, and she wants the option to archive her shows in either format. This is easily solved with an A/B switch that I just bought at Walmart, so I rephrased the question: "If I give your TiVo the option of saving to DVD or VHS, and if you have over 300 hours of space, do you foresee needing to put stuff on my TiVo?". At this point, she accused me of being selfish with my TiVo. I immediately told her it wasn't selfishness. I told her that we have the means of setting ourselves up with TiVos/accessories beefy enough to satisfy both our needs, and I see no reason why we shouldn't avail ourselves of this ability to set ourselves up. She needs a fair amount of space, and she needs to be hooked up to a DVD burner and a VCR. I want/need a fair amount of space so that I'll have a nice selection of Suggestions to choose from. Also, when she sets stuff up on my TiVo, if I'm not mistaken, it defaults to a one-thumbs up for all her stuff, which could be goofing up my thumbs settings.
> 
> So, we each have our needs, and I see a way to meet those needs, and I'd like to set things up like that, and I don't consider that to be selfishness. When I put it like that, she agreed with me and said she'll stay off my TiVo.
> 
> Anyway, I intend to order off for the new hard drive by this afternoon, and will install it sometime later after it gets shipped to me.


Was this part of the smoothness? Because this sounds about as rough as it can get.

My opinion is she's addicted to Tivo and you're addicted to this thread.


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Was this part of the smoothness? Because this sounds about as rough as it can get.
> 
> My opinion is she's addicted to Tivo and you're addicted to this thread.


At that point it was not smooth. May I add that I'm the OP and it makes sense I'm here. I'm starting to think you're the one addicted to this thread.


----------



## jtlytle

RangersRBack said:


> To jlytle, yes I am married, and every time I read another post from this guy, I walk over and give my wife a kiss. She has no idea that I'm thanking her for not being this woman. And we have an actual relationship, where we watch some TV together and some not, and actually do things together that don't involve the TV as well.


Excellent


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> At that point it was not smooth. May I add that I'm the OP and it makes sense I'm here. I'm starting to think you're the one addicted to this thread.


I already told you that I'm one of the few who watches this thread. Not sure if addicted is the right word, it's more like driving past a car wreck and not wanting to look, but you look anyway and hope it's not bad.

And not unlike when you drive past a car wreck and say a little prayer for those involved, and then thank God it wasn't you, I thank God every time I read this thread that my wife is...well...different from yours!


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## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> I thank God every time I read this thread that my wife is...well...different from yours!


Yes, my wife has problems I have to deal with. Thank you for gloating over your lack of problems with your wife, and for making fun of my marriage.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> Yes, my wife has problems I have to deal with. Thank you for gloating over your lack of problems with your wife, and for making fun of my marriage.


Don't worry, I have different problems! Who doesn't?

I just don't post them on a public forum for three years! Actually, at least you're saying you have problems, that's the first step to solving them. Your other e-mails make it sound like everything is peachy.


----------



## HiDefGator

Sorry I haven't read this whole thread but my solution was to do a clear and delete one day and then blame it on the Tivo reseting itself. Solved the problem for months.

Getting a second Tivo will not solve this problem long term. Eventually it will fill up too. If you record 10 hours of TV a week but watch only 5 something eventually has to be deleted.


----------



## RangersRBack

HiDefGator said:


> Sorry I haven't read this whole thread but my solution was to do a clear and delete one day and then blame it on the Tivo reseting itself. Solved the problem for months.
> 
> Getting a second Tivo will not solve this problem long term. Eventually it will fill up too. If you record 10 hours of TV a week but watch only 5 something eventually has to be deleted.


Sorry, that was suggested two years ago.

Next!


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Don't worry, I have different problems! Who doesn't?
> 
> I just don't post them on a public forum for three years! Actually, at least you're saying you have problems, that's the first step to solving them. Your other e-mails make it sound like everything is peachy.


My intention in my postings wasn't to say I've had a solid 3 years of no problems, because I certainly haven't, as this thread testifies. My point is that it's not 3 solid years of problems. In fact, the vast majority of those 3 years have been pretty much problem-free (from my point of view) due to a) adding a second TiVo, and b) upgrading the first TiVo.

The main reason this thread has lasted for 3 years is that when a new problem (say, 2 1/2 years later) surfaces, I choose to update the original thread. Others here choose to start new threads, but I think it's more organized to keep it all to one thread.

A secondary reason this thread has lasted, is because several people have asked for updates, so there is evidently interest in this thread. If interest dissapears, then this thread will likely die.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> My intention in my postings wasn't to say I've had a solid 3 years of no problems, because I certainly haven't, as this thread testifies. My point is that it's not 3 solid years of problems. In fact, the vast majority of those 3 years have been pretty much problem-free (from my point of view) due to a) adding a second TiVo, and b) upgrading the first TiVo.
> 
> The main reason this thread has lasted for 3 years is that when a new problem (say, 2 1/2 years later) surfaces, I choose to update the original thread. Others here choose to start new threads, but I think it's more organized to keep it all to one thread.
> 
> A secondary reason this thread has lasted, is because several people have asked for updates, so there is evidently interest in this thread. If interest dissapears, then this thread will likely die.


OK so please give an update. How many hours of stuff does your wife currently have to watch? And how many hours a day would you say she spends watching it?


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> OK so please give an update. How many hours of stuff does your wife currently have to watch? And how many hours a day would you say she spends watching it?


I honestly don't know how many hours she has backlogged, as I don't operate her TiVo. She did watch some of her backlog last night though, after our son went to bed. I was on the computer doing work during that time. It's probably safe to say that she has lots of free space though because of the recent upgrade I did. I also saw her maintaining her recently deleted list just a few days ago, and it looked like a lot of stuff was in it, so apparently she's must have recently deleted some backlog. I don't know if she actually watched it, or if she deleted without watching, though.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> I honestly don't know how many hours she has backlogged, as I don't operate her TiVo. She did watch some of her backlog last night though, after our son went to bed. I was on the computer doing work during that time. It's probably safe to say that she has lots of free space though because of the recent upgrade I did. I also saw her maintaining her recently deleted list just a few days ago, and it looked like a lot of stuff was in it, so apparently she's must have recently deleted some backlog. I don't know if she actually watched it, or if she deleted without watching, though.


So approximately how many hours a day do you think she spends watching TV?


----------



## RavenFan

RangersRBack said:


> So approximately how many hours a day do you think she spends watching TV?


Probably fewer than you jave spent antagonizing this guy for the past few days.

My TiVo gets backlogged because I _don't_ watch a lot of hours of TV per week.


----------



## timckelley

RavenFan said:


> My TiVo gets backlogged because I _don't_ watch a lot of hours of TV per week.


I'm sure the exact same is true for my wife. She's spends a lot of time doing things because of, and around our son, which is why she gets backlogged.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> I'm sure the exact same is true for my wife. She's spends a lot of time doing things because of, and around our son, which is why she gets backlogged.


So approximately how many hours does she actually watch per day?


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> So approximately how many hours does she actually watch per day?


I'll need to ask her, because I don't know. But I do know that she doesn't watch it every day.


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## murgatroyd

Tim, I think you're a great guy, and totally undeserving of all the abuse that has been heaped upon your head in this thread.

The plain fact of the matter is, some guys think they should be able to do whatever self-indulgent thing they want, because they are guys, and that's just the way things are. Meanwhile housework and child care and other stuff should happen automagically, done by the housework and child-care fairies. They don't care how that stuff gets done, because it's not 'man stuff'.

Basically, they are demanding that you turn in your man card because you actually have a clue that your wife is a human being and likes to watch TV in her (few) off-hours, just as you yourself do. 

If anyone in this thread comes off looking bad, it's the boo birds. Their reading comprehension isn't very good. 

I wish you both many happy hours of family time and TiVo-space juggling in the future.

Jan


----------



## RangersRBack

murgatroyd said:


> Tim, I think you're a great guy, and totally undeserving of all the abuse that has been heaped upon your head in this thread.
> 
> The plain fact of the matter is, some guys think they should be able to do whatever self-indulgent thing they want, because they are guys, and that's just the way things are. Meanwhile housework and child care and other stuff should happen automagically, done by the housework and child-care fairies. They don't care how that stuff gets done, because it's not 'man stuff'.
> 
> Basically, they are demanding that you turn in your man card because you actually have a clue that your wife is a human being and likes to watch TV in her (few) off-hours, just as you yourself do.
> 
> If anyone in this thread comes off looking bad, it's the boo birds. Their reading comprehension isn't very good.
> 
> I wish you both many happy hours of family time and TiVo-space juggling in the future.
> 
> Jan


Yeah, Tim, You Da Man!

But what is Tim doing that's so self-indulgent?


----------



## RAZUR_BLADEZ

Tim, No disrespect use really asked for it posting such a stupid thread. Still going 3 years, how stupid. Sorry my 2 cents. 

david


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## timckelley

RAZUR_BLADEZ said:


> Tim, No disrespect use really asked for it posting such a stupid thread. Still going 3 years, how stupid. Sorry my 2 cents.
> 
> david


You're mistaken... reread the thread. My problem is currently solved. BTW, this whole thread started, partly to ask for advice (3 years ago) on techniques of getting my wife's shows deleted. Partly it was also simply to share my interesting story. Other purposes, which were answered early in the thread, were to ask various questions concerning functionality and features of TiVo. How was that 'stupid'? If you had no answers nor anything very useful to contribute, you most probably would have been better served not participating in the thread.

Also, btw, this thread which you claim is 'stupid' has been proclaimed by some as being their favorite thread of all threads in TCF. (Not that I'm trying to boast or anything - I'm simply refuting your statement.)

Lastly, the vast majority of the antagonism in this thread has come from only one person, which tends to cast doubt on the legitimacy of complaints against this thread's existence. If this thread were indeed stupid, I'd've gotten grief from a lot more people.


----------



## TivoZorro

I guess I take a different approach to this thread and why it should end.

Tim, you and your wife are both adults and should be able to work out your problems on your own, if not you both need to see a counselor together. 

If you are content with her taking over your Tivo periodicaly and have no desire to do anything about it except placating her, then keep quiet and live with it and quit pestering the Community for solutions. 

My brother has a controlling wife who tells him what TV shows he can watch and what food to eat among other things. I told him before he married her not to do it, but he has been happy with her for ten years with no complaiints. To each his own. I wouldn't live like that, but hey I'm not married to her. 

I wish you and your wife all the luck in the world and if you are happy with the way things are then go for it.


----------



## timckelley

You all are taking this way too seriously. This is a TiVo forum where threads about TiVo are supposed to be welcomed. You who are not interested don't need to read the thread. That's how forums work. Enough people have been interested in this thread, that its existence is legitimate. It's one thing if everybody was pestered by it, then you could make the case that I'm a troll and should go away. However, when enough people show interest, and when in addition, I get useful information from the thread, then it's appropriate, and those people bugged by it should be the ones to go away (i.e. don't read this thread.)

As it, like I've said many times, my problem for now is solved, and I don't foresee needing to post more updates to this thread unless things change. And if things do change, but I perceive no further interest in the thread, and I don't think I will get any more information useful to myself from posting here, then of course I won't post anymore. Other than that, it's not inappropriate for me to post here. This is the TiVo Coffee House. The way you use this forum is to visit the threads that interest you, and stay away from the ones that don't.

Also, remember I'm the OP of this thread, so it's not like I'm invading somebody else's thread, threadcrapping on it.



RangersRBack said:


> OK I think I'm the person Tim is referring to in both these paragraphs [above]


Actually, you're not the only one.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> Also, btw, this thread which you claim is 'stupid' has been proclaimed by some as being their favorite thread of all threads in TCF. (Not that I'm trying to boast or anything - I'm simply refuting your statement.)
> 
> Lastly, the vast majority of the antagonism in this thread has come from only one person, which tends to cast doubt on the legitimacy of complaints against this thread's existence. If this thread were indeed stupid, I'd've gotten grief from a lot more people.


OK I think I'm the person Tim is referring to in both these paragraphs. It's true I can't for the life of me imagine posting here for three years about the same basic problem. I'm sure our friend will come on with a few paragraphs explaining why it's NOT the same exact problem every time, but the truth is the problem just manifests itself over and over and over again, in different forms.

I'm also the one who has proclaimed this to be my favorite thread, it's been the source of years of entertainment. I think my favorite part is when he says "I'm currently in negotiations with my wife on blah blah blah recordings, and she hasn't gotten back to me yet". 

Some of the basic tenets of marriage have gotten trampled here, apparently for at least the last three years.


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## iaflyer

First, I wanted to say that I have found this thread fascinating over the years and I'm subscribed to it. 

One think I was wondering about is whether she is still offloading stuff onto videotapes. I remember her doing it in the past, both shows for your son and to free up some space on the Tivo (I can't remember if it was hers or yours). Is she still doing that?


----------



## timckelley

iaflyer said:


> First, I wanted to say that I have found this thread fascinating over the years and I'm subscribed to it.
> 
> One think I was wondering about is whether she is still offloading stuff onto videotapes. I remember her doing it in the past, both shows for your son and to free up some space on the Tivo (I can't remember if it was hers or yours). Is she still doing that?


She's mostly broken herself of that habit. In fact, it used to be she watched almost no TV. Her activity was mostly confined to simply offloading stuff without watching it, and not really watching TV hardly at all. Now, she actually watches TV and deletes her stuff after watching it, and only once in awhile offloads stuff to tape or DVD. (We now have a DVD burner.) Well I do remember a few months ago there being a James Bond marathon, and she burned just about every James Bond movie there is to DVD. But in the last few months, I can't think of much else she's offloaded. Well just before I recently upgraded her TiVo, and she was depleting my space, she offloaded the eps of General Hospital from my TiVo, but again, that was a couple of months ago.

Since the TiVo upgrade I haven't witnessed her offloading (not that she couldn't do it in my absence), but has told me she doesn't offload like she used to.


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## sk33t3r

On my wifes TIVO the standard on she records who knows what, but now that I have it seetup to stream from the tivo to her PC she is happy, she doesnt have to sit in the back room and watch them, she can sit at her desk and work and watch them.

But the clear and delete does wonders from time to time, I dont record that much, I mainly record something that way I have more than a 30 min buffer, as soon as I catchup or watch the shows bye bye, I delete them.


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## timckelley

Hmm almost 3 months since my last post here, and just one minor update to make: During the day, my wife wants to watch TV downstairs, but at night in bed she'd like to watch it from bed. My TiVo is in the bedroom, and my wife likes "American Idol", so she has taken the liberty of *PUTTING A SEASON PASS* for "American Idol" on *MY TIVO*. 

Well, it's not as dire as I paint it, because:

a) I have between 3 and 4 screens of suggestions on my TiVo, so I'm not low on space.
b) I kind of like "American Idol", though it's not my favorite show by a long shot
c) She likes to make fun of the contestants, but doesn't particularly enjoy doing it unless she's watching it with somebody else, so I watch it with her in our bedroom at night. So I guess I partly own the SP in that sense.

But by no means would I have scheduled that SP on my own onto my TiVo. I don't consider it that good a show. But it's not that bad either, so I watch it with her. One drawback is that she sometimes falls asleep before the ep is over, and she doesn't want to miss it, so I can't just finish watching it and delete. I have to pause it at the point where she fell asleep, and resume another day.

This is just a recent development, so there's very little backlog. Yesterday there were two eps in NP, and we watched 1 1/2 of them before she fell asleep, so right now there's just 1/2 an ep on there. So it really is not a problem right now.

If it were to become a problem, I suppose buying a 3rd TiVo (and assigning ownership of it to her) and putting it upstairs would solve things, but I don't want to do that, because the lifetime option is gone now.

(Oh, and to preempt that guy who says this thread is 3 years of the same thing, this isn't. She's not overflowing to my TiVo due to lack of space on hers.... she simply wants the flexibility to watch from downstairs or upstairs.)


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## ZeoTiVo

yah we had this discussion back when you were deciding to upgrade the series 1 or not. MRV is a very useful feature in our house. It would be worth the 6.95 a month in my opinion.

but anyhow this one does not sound like encroachment to me as it sounds a lot more like the two of you get to spend some time just laughing at the world at night before bedtime. That is, as they say, priceless.


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## jtlytle

timckelley said:


> But by no means would I have scheduled that SP on my own onto my TiVo. I don't consider it that good a show. But it's not that bad either, so I watch it with her. One drawback is that she sometimes falls asleep before the ep is over, and she doesn't want to miss it, so I can't just finish watching it and delete. I have to pause it at the point where she fell asleep, and resume another day.
> 
> This is just a recent development, so there's very little backlog. Yesterday there were two eps in NP, and we watched 1 1/2 of them before she fell asleep, so right now there's just 1/2 an ep on there. So it really is not a problem right now.


Have you thought of wake her up and say, "wake up, the show isn't over yet!"


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> Hmm almost 3 months since my last post here, and just one minor update to make: During the day, my wife wants to watch TV downstairs, but at night in bed she'd like to watch it from bed. My TiVo is in the bedroom, and my wife likes "American Idol", so she has taken the liberty of *PUTTING A SEASON PASS* for "American Idol" on *MY TIVO*.
> 
> (Oh, and to preempt that guy who says this thread is 3 years of the same thing, this isn't. She's not overflowing to my TiVo due to lack of space on hers.... she simply wants the flexibility to watch from downstairs or upstairs.)


Cool, my favorite thread is back, starring my favorite couple, Mr. & Mrs. Tivo! 

Yep, I'm the guy who says this is three years of the same thing, but I am in fact wrong...now we're up to three years and eight months!!! 2/3 of the way to four years!!! Gotta love it!

June 3, 2003...my wife and I are having Tivo problems. February 2, 2007...my wife and I are having Tivo problems.

I will continue to say I understand you haven't been having the EXACT same problem for almost four years, but this is still the SAME BASIC PROBLEM! You and your wife having Tivo capacity issues.

Let's see, we're less than four months from the FOUR YEAR anniversary of this thread, and next year we'll hit the FIVE YEAR anniversary! And the nay-sayers said it couldn't be done...oh ye of little faith.

I stand by my prediction that this thread is capable of a good 10-15 year run...it's like the LES MISERABLES of forum threads...in more ways than one! 

Yeah, have a good time making fun of those American Idol contestants...doesn't it feel good to make fun of wacky people???


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## JustAllie

If, starting back in 2003, Tim had put $1 into a savings account for every post that appeared in this thread, he could have bought several more TiVos and/or larger hard drives by now.


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## ZeoTiVo

JustAllie said:


> If, starting back in 2003, Tim had put $1 into a savings account for every post that appeared in this thread, he could have bought several more TiVos and/or larger hard drives by now.


yah but if it cost him a dollar every time he posted he would not have posted much if at all in his thread


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## od111

Reach down between your legs to confirm your masculinity!! 

Then give her a handfull of vhs tapes.

or...

Just go out and buy another Tivo!
I'm guessing she handles all the bills (as most head of housholds do)
She now has the option to return YOUR Tivo (to save some money) and must finally watch her shows. If she's not willing to compromise YOUR Tivo Stays!!!!


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## JustAllie

ZeoTiVo said:


> yah but if it cost him a dollar every time he posted he would not have posted much if at all in his thread


140 posts by Tim so far in this thread. So $140 down... a few more posts will get him a dual tuner model...  Oh, and look, I just posted here twice today, costing Tim two more dollars....


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## RangersRBack

od111 said:


> Reach down between your legs to confirm your masculinity!!
> 
> Then give her a handfull of vhs tapes.
> 
> or...
> 
> Just go out and buy another Tivo!
> I'm guessing she handles all the bills (as most head of housholds do)
> She now has the option to return YOUR Tivo (to save some money) and must finally watch her shows. If she's not willing to compromise YOUR Tivo Stays!!!!


Pretty sure that was suggested back in 2004...or was it 2005? I forget...so hard to keep track!


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## ZeoTiVo

RangersRBack said:


> Pretty sure that was suggested back in 2004...or was it 2005? I forget...so hard to keep track!


both


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## od111

RangersRBack said:


> Pretty sure that was suggested back in 2004...or was it 2005? I forget...so hard to keep track!


Sorry, as you see this was my first post.

Guess I didn't go deep enough into the Tivo dramas past.

- no too sure I want to


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## timckelley

od111 said:


> I'm guessing she handles all the bills


To tell the truth, I handle all bills, all investments, and do all the taxes.

Oh, and my wife is still off the wagon (or is it 'on the wagon'?) with her VHS problem. i.e. she is no longer archiving stuff to tapes like she once madly did. Her upgraded TiVo still has lots of space on it, and my TiVo currently has no American Idol on it, as we are both watching the eps fairly promptly after they air.

I currently have over 4 screens of Suggestions on my TiVo, so I have lots of space too. I confess that American Idol is a bit more entertaining to me that I thought at first when I watched it, so I don't really mind keeping it on my TiVo, especially since my wife wants to watch it from upstairs. Still, I would never on my own had scheduled that SP.

My wife's twin sister is also a huge fan of American Idol, and she records it on her Time Warner DVR. Last week I was over there when she was playing it, and it was my first gander at a Time Warner DVR. I did not like it as much as TiVo.


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## rdrrepair

Get another TiVo - *Get yourself (you deserve it) one of those new Series 3* - I got another TiVo and upgraded mine - She got my old one (500hrs) after I transfered all of her shows into it.

The kids have there own and everyone is very happy!!!


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> My wife's twin sister is also a huge fan of American Idol, and she records it on her Time Warner DVR.


Oh no, this is new intel...your wife has a twin sister who is also armed with a DVR? Note to the world...be afraid...be very afraid.


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## JustAllie

RangersRBack said:


> Oh no, this is new intel...your wife has a twin sister who is also armed with a DVR? Note to the world...be afraid...be very afraid.


It's actually Tim's wife's sister's husband's DVR, of course.


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## timckelley

JustAllie said:


> It's actually Tim's wife's sister's husband's DVR, of course.


BTW, they are still in the dark ages; i.e. one DVR for the whole house. And they have two daughters, ages 16 and 9. Maybe they'll grow up with the same personalities as my wife and their mother.


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## QuietPower

I had the same problem with a girlfriend then i hook up tivo togo and dump all her backlogged movies to a PC.

She loves making shows do not delete


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## RangersRBack

JustAllie said:


> It's actually Tim's wife's sister's husband's DVR, of course.


Except there's a little problem with her encroaching onto his hard drive!


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> BTW, they are still in the dark ages; i.e. one DVR for the whole house. And they have two daughters, ages 16 and 9. Maybe they'll grow up with the same personalities as my wife and their mother.


Or maybe they do things other than watch TV...


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## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Or maybe they do things other than watch TV...


I typically watch about an hour per day of TV. Is that excessive? Maybe if we spent our lives watching TV, backlog wouldn't have been an issue. (Which btw, currently isn't.) Also, I do all my watching late at night, because during the day I'm doing nonTV stuff.


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> I typically watch about an hour per day of TV. Is that excessive? Maybe if we spent our lives watching TV, backlog wouldn't have been an issue. (Which btw, currently isn't.) Also, I do all my watching late at night, because during the day I'm doing nonTV stuff.


I think we had this discussion back in 2003 or 2004, so I'm going to skip it this time.


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## timckelley

To be more accurate, the conversation happened less than 3 months ago, and as I recall, it ended without any point ever being demonstrated that either my wife or I watch too much TV. We spend most of our lives doing nonTV activity.

The problem this whole thread has never been that we spend too much time watching TV. If anything, it's the opposite. My wife accumulated a backlog because of how little she watched. In fact, years ago when her backlog was a problem, there was a period when she typically would watch close to zero TV, and spend most of her time simply offloading her NP list to tape.

She's changed her habits now. Now, she watches a bit more TV, so she can actually delete stuff, and she's doing practically zero archiving, and the big thing now is that she doesn't swamp her To Do List so heavily as she used to do. We'll see if that keeps up.

Still, swamping a To Do List <> watches TV.


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## JustAllie

I don't think it's so much an issue of time spent watching TV as the fact that TV shows appear to be a source of conflict, concern, or stress. TV should be fun. It shouldn't run your life. 

I do understand your concern about your wife encroaching on your TiVo space, Tim. I think you're gun-shy because she has had packrat tendencies in the past. It's really hard for her to admit that she won't watch a show and thus can delete it unwatched. The thing is that these days, a show deleted is not a show that's gone forever. There are reruns, DVD rentals, iTunes downloads, online versions from the network website, etc. It sounds like she has already started getting better about this, though. And you admit that American Idol is something you two enjoy watching together -- which makes it good TV, not bad TV. (Well, for you, anyway. ) 

So the issue then is that she put a season pass on your TiVo without asking you. You're thinking back to how things were in 2003 and imagine this getting worse, until your TiVo is overrun with stuff she won't delete. Maybe, instead, it'll get better, as having TiVo helps her let go of her inner packrat.


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> To be more accurate, the conversation happened less than 3 months ago, and as I recall, it ended without any point ever being demonstrated that either my wife or I watch too much TV. We spend most of our lives doing nonTV activity.
> 
> The problem this whole thread has never been that we spend too much time watching TV. If anything, it's the opposite. My wife accumulated a backlog because of how little she watched. In fact, years ago when her backlog was a problem, there was a period when she typically would watch close to zero TV, and spend most of her time simply offloading her NP list to tape.
> 
> She's changed her habits now. Now, she watches a bit more TV, so she can actually delete stuff, and she's doing practically zero archiving, and the big thing now is that she doesn't swamp her To Do List so heavily as she used to do. We'll see if that keeps up.
> 
> Still, swamping a To Do List <> watches TV.


Dude I wasn't talking about excessive TV watching. I think we did discuss that back in 2004 or so, but that was when I was young and foolish. I'm older than that now.

I just love this thread. I love that we get updates, I love that different Tivo capacity problems keep popping up that you share with us, and I love that in 10 years we'll still be discussing your Tivo capacity problems.

I'm going to nominate you for poster of the decade!


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## RangersRBack

JustAllie said:


> I don't think it's so much an issue of time spent watching TV as the fact that TV shows appear to be a source of conflict, concern, or stress. TV should be fun. It shouldn't run your life.
> 
> I do understand your concern about your wife encroaching on your TiVo space, Tim. I think you're gun-shy because she has had packrat tendencies in the past. It's really hard for her to admit that she won't watch a show and thus can delete it unwatched. The thing is that these days, a show deleted is not a show that's gone forever. There are reruns, DVD rentals, iTunes downloads, online versions from the network website, etc. It sounds like she has already started getting better about this, though. And you admit that American Idol is something you two enjoy watching together -- which makes it good TV, not bad TV. (Well, for you, anyway. )
> 
> So the issue then is that she put a season pass on your TiVo without asking you. You're thinking back to how things were in 2003 and imagine this getting worse, until your TiVo is overrun with stuff she won't delete. Maybe, instead, it'll get better, as having TiVo helps her let go of her inner packrat.


Wow, I'm impressed...you've been following along at home. I thought I was the only knucklehead who has been paying attention to this thread all along!


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## JustAllie

RangersRBack said:


> Wow, I'm impressed...you've been following along at home. I thought I was the only knucklehead who has been paying attention to this thread all along!


I didn't come in here until six months after it started, but this thread has continued to amaze me.


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## RangersRBack

JustAllie said:


> I didn't come in here until six months after it started, but this thread has continued to amaze me.


Future post by Tim, June 22, 2013:

Even though all television is now watched through broadband connection and there is no longer any such thing as network broadcasts, my wife for some reason feels it necessary to steal my cell phone at night so she can download every episode of that long-running spinoff hit, 'Mars Idol', featuring those wacky colonists.


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## Havana Brown

This is the thread that never ends . . .


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## JustAllie

Havana Brown said:


> This is the thread that never ends . . .


If it ever reaches 1000 posts and has to be closed, we can call the follow-on thread(s) "What Is Your Wife Still Not Deleting," or WIYWSND.


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## Leila

Question: "Wife won't delete recordings"

Answer: "Delete wife"


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## RangersRBack

JustAllie said:


> If it ever reaches 1000 posts and has to be closed, we can call the follow-on thread(s) "What Is Your Wife Still Not Deleting," or WIYWSND.


Oh man Allie you got to have the 500th post! No fair, I NEVER get to have the 500th post!!!


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## murgatroyd

Havana Brown said:


> This is the thread that never ends . . .


 Yes, it goes on and on, my friend
Some people started writing it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue writing it forever just because

Jan (with apologies to Shari Lewis)


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## wmorrison27

If you network your TiVo to your home computer, you can send some of the programs that may not be watched for a while to cold storage if you have room on your computer's hard drive. Computer storage is cheap and you can easily add more storage to a computer by plugging in an external hard drive.

I have a computer with a large drive that I use for storing classic movies captured when they did appear on cable (like Disney flicks for the kids) that we plan to watch once in a while, but don't want to keep around plugging up limited space on my TiVo box. With Ethernet networking, I can watch a movie from the computer in real time on my TiVo. We even watch the movie ON the computer screen sometimes - which can be nice if the TiVo TV is busy.

You can even get fancy and copy the files to a DVD - which we sometimes do in preparation for a long car trip with the kids and load up with their favorite TiVo'ed shows for the car DVD player.


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## kirbinster

I was going to suggest the exact same thing that the previous poster suggested - as I do that all the time.

Another thing I do is use the dual tuner pvr that is built into my computer to record shows and then send them to the TiVo so that I can watch them on my 65" HD TV rather than on the PC. I also use a program called VideoRedo to strip out all commercials before I send the stuff to the TiVo to make it a more enjoyable viewing experience.


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## grizel

Okay. sound sliek you dont need two tivos' you just need the one cleaned off. in our house we agreed day one that if you watch it it dies. we have very few things saved for a rainy da, just got a dvd burner so those we have held (music and comedy concerts mostly) are going to be gone soon. We're very strict about the running of the tivo, (When you have 60+ season passes on a 80 hour tivo, you have to be) suggestions are sorted every day and those we dont care about are killed instantly. We're just watchers not archivers anyway.

being I'm female myself I have to say the "get a new wife" jokes don't fly, I thought I'd chime in... here we go... 

Okie:

1: get a DVD burner (I got a Lite On for $99 on pricegrabber last week - email me I'll tell you where) and start burning. or make her do it. bad thing is you kinda have to monitor it while it records (since swithcing to live is right out), so you might as well sit down and watch it. it's good to do when you are multi tasking and running around. I find a egg timer is great for next to the remote. Set it minute or two early. os you have the time to get there and are ready to hit STOP.

2: tell her the oldest stuff is dying first. No ifs and or butts. OR
every three or so days ask which SERIES saved can be killed off. She gets to choose which she really cares about.

3: send the kids to grandmas for a weekend, or you take them away on a trip, and tell her this is her ONE chance to watch/record off all her shows or they die a harsh death. Also tell her that she has to delete them when done. If she screws her chance and goes shopping witht he girls, she has to personally delete X number of hours.

4: kill everything. Even your stuff in a drastic "salting of the earth" maneuver. Say the machine was too full and it locked up so you pulled the plug and had to kill everything off in a fit of angry depseration because there was no room. lay on the guilt.

5: you *COULD* get her her own tivo - valentine's day is coming up after all, not hign says love like "Keep your **** on your own machine biatch"... just put it where ever she spends the most time in the house (office, kitchen etc...), so a new tv might be in order too. I agree though that getting her her own tivo will just encourage her to squirrel away shows for winter and you will get the above "i'm full, tivo for me" scenario. It's the "hold my handbag" of the tivo she-crowd. Is there a way to set tivo to ask for a passcode before recording (on yours?)

6: second/larger hard drive i hear is the easiest thing in the world to do almost... cheaper than buying a new one... just gives her more room to fill up though.


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## JustAllie

There ought to be a requirement to read the whole thread before posting.


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## RandyDtg

You can also transfer to a PC or Laptop, then even burn the files to DVD's. And then later retrieve them back to the TiVo for watching.

or get a TiVo with a big hard drive:

My 750 gig TiVo holds over 900 hours.


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## hoboknj

Don't ever set anything to "save until I delete". Record everything as "keep until space needed" and you will never run into this problem. Save until I delete anticipates all future programs being recorded and saved until manually deleted and therefore blocks out more time than actually needed. We had this problem with an old 30 hour box, changed all the options to delete as needed and NEVER lost a program. It makes a huge difference and is a very simple solution to free up hours of available time on your hard drive that no longer is reserved for future programs on your season pass selections.


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## photokev

The cheapest option may be to install a second hard drive. You could triple your storage for less than buying a second Tivo.


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## bareyb

I had basically the same predicament with my kid's shows. They want to keep them forever and watch each one 137 times. So I got them their own TiVo and I use it to put my overflow on. Season passes that are causing a conflict on Tivo1 get moved to TiVo2. So it helps the kids while at the same time helping me. Win-win. Except for the extra money it all costs of course. The kids win that one.


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## timckelley

photokev said:


> The cheapest option may be to install a second hard drive. You could triple your storage for less than buying a second Tivo.


I refer you post 403 of this thread. I've already upgraded her TiVo, which solved our problems. She still has lots of available space on her upgraded TiVo.

The 'wife won't delete' problem, for now, has been solved.


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## TivoFan

And it only took 3 years 8 months!


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## timckelley

TivoFan said:


> And it only took 3 years 8 months!


To be fair, most of that time there wasn't a problem. Buying a second TiVo less than a year after the first, solved the problem, but then it resurfaced last year, so then I upgraded her TiVo. I always suspected I'd need to to that.

I also talked to my wife today about her TiVoing. She still has the General Hospital SP on her TiVo, and we have the American Idol SP on my TiVo, but there are no other shows she regularly watches. She has cut way down on the swamping of her To Do List she once did. So this is why she's not backlogging anymore - she simply doesn't schedule as much stuff to watch. She claims that she's caught up on General Hospital, and also caught up on American Idol.

I asked her how she can do this. I made the analogy with other forms of addiction, like alcoholism. Normally, when an alcholic breaks the habit they must become a Tee-totaler. Imagine an alcoholic having a sip of alcohol each day, but not plunging back into their addiction. Here's my wife having her daily sips of her TiVo, but she is not plunging back into the mad swamping of her To Do List that she once did. I'm still wondering how she's doing it.

It'd be funny if one day she registers with TCF and reads this thread, and then decides to post her side of all this.  (She has still never seen this thread.)


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## ZeoTiVo

hoboknj said:


> Don't ever set anything to "save until I delete". Record everything as "keep until space needed" .


did all these kind people who posted all these helpful tips really think that none of them came up in the *3 years* this thread has been around


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## Stalyn

Well i solved that problem by getting 3 total tivos in my house. My youngest daughter (28) is like your wife. I got a 250 in my front room, a 40 in my daughters room and another 40 for my wife. Now everyone is happy and i can watch what i want on my tivo.


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## steves1010

I had a similar issue only our tivo is 40 hour. Since I was purchasing a new computer for my wife I did so with a multimedia package added a wireless router and tivo card then set up auto transfers to her computer from tivo. Now I'm downloading her programs that have to be saved to DVD's. I admit it's a little extreme but since I was already getting her the computer it made more sense that upgrading. Good luck.


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## dalgar

I've just been reading through this and was having a great laugh. I can't wait until the warranty runs out on my tivo so I can start working with it. But, by that time someone will have already figured out how to make Tivo recognize external HD's on the USB. Then I can stick my terrabyte station on it! LOL.

Seriously though if I can get this PC to Tivo xfer rate issue licked I will have TONS of space. I have 2 terrabyte NAT servers and one I wanted to fill with all our old VHS movies and DVD's so we can simply pcik from a menu.

If I can't get that working I will look into the sling system or some such.


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## timckelley

Wow! I just got a copy of the latest issue of the TiVoCommunity newsletter. (It's emailed to all us TCFers), and this thread is second on the list of 'hot topics'.


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## murgatroyd

timckelley said:


> I asked her how she can do this. I made the analogy with other forms of addiction, like alcoholism. Normally, when an alcholic breaks the habit they must become a Tee-totaler. Imagine an alcoholic having a sip of alcohol each day, but not plunging back into their addiction. Here's my wife having her daily sips of her TiVo, but she is not plunging back into the mad swamping of her To Do List that she once did. I'm still wondering how she's doing it.


Don't be so harsh, Tim.

After all, MANY people get TiVos, fill up their To-Do Lists, and go crazy because they feel they must watch/save everything.

Most people do learn, eventually, that they don't have to watch everything and its okay to let some shows go. You learn which shows are important to you and which are not so important.

And we all have seasonal variations of too many shows to watch / nothing on the Now Playing List (or in your case, 'I've already seen all those Suggestions'). As you have explained, it was just that kind of seasonal variation that caused your space crunch.

This is just part of owning a TiVo. Maybe your family's case is extreme when compared to others, but I've never thought your situation was as dysfunctional as everyone else is making it out to be.

Jan


----------



## timckelley

Oh, I have retract a false statement I made earlier, and I just apologized to my wife today for making a false assumption. It turns out she never did put an American Idol SP on my TiVo. She's been scheduling each ep as it appears in the guide data and putting them in my To Do List, but she has not put in an SP. She apparently is at least respecting the ground rule against her putting SPs onto my TiVo.

But she smiled and said if I'd like the SP there, she'll put it there. Well, since we're watching the show together, and we're watching it upstairs in my TiVo room, I think it should go on my TiVo. But I think it should be 'first runs only'.

She also said she's got a bunch of movies sitting on her TiVo right now. (Remember I said there are only two shows she regularly watches now, but movies are not shows.) She knows I sometimes look for good movies and welcomed me to watch anything I see interesting on her TiVo.

It sounds like she's thinking the best use of our TiVos is not to split them into a his and hers TiVo, but instead for us to share both TiVos. I suppose I wouldn't mind that unless hers started filling up again. That's why we got two to begin with.

I'm starting to regret getting a series 1 TiVo. If the second TiVo had been series 2 like the first, I could be using HMO to move shows between TiVos. Then everybody would be happy. We could have a his and hers TiVo, but if there's something she wants to watch upstairs, she could move it to my TiVo just prior to watching it. Darn... I should have had better foresight.


----------



## jdventer

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.
> 
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


 Record programs as Keep Until Space Needed and ask you wife to add time to recorded programs she has not watched (you can add up to 6 days) when they show up with an (!) indicating TiVo will delete them soon. This will allow you to schedule more programs to record because the TiVo will not reserve the space forever.


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## johnscott99

My wife recorded a radio show about dodgy songs in the 1930s. 

She won't delete it because she wants to write down the names of the songs and singers. 

I have done this 3 times now. She keeps losing the piece of paper. 

It was broadcast in October 2003. 

It's harder to lose a TiVo than a piece of paper. 

Tattoo?


----------



## RangersRBack

JustAllie said:


> There ought to be a requirement to read the whole thread before posting.


Yeah it's pretty funny, most of these helpful suggestions have been made in one form or another sometime in this thread in the last three years and eight months. Apparently people don't want to read 500+ posts...can't imagine why!

Can you believe people are still coming up with suggestions???

Folks, it's all been done...it's all been suggested...it doesn't help.

Tim's problem CANNOT be solved electronically!!!


----------



## donutsdad

I moved all of the exercise equipment and my wifes other "hobbies" all into the room where the tivo is....that way she is simply "there" more hours than before....

ergo..more opportunity to watch and delete...

the problem for me is that for the shows that we both watch...i have to wait till her "schedule" permits for even ME to watch those.....


----------



## maximumtwo

I know some people have already given this as an answer. 

I have some what the same problem. You need to use TIVO Desktop. It is a free program that you down load to your computer. Your tivo and your computer become a network. By doing this you can move programs over to your computer and back again. It will explain how to do it on the TIVO website. I did it and it works great. I finally got the second TIVO with the dual tuner. Now I have them all link together and it is wonderful.

Good Luck. I hope this helps some.

Max


----------



## timckelley

maximumtwo said:


> I have some what the same problem. You need to use TIVO Desktop. It is a free program that you down load to your computer. Your tivo and your computer become a network. By doing this you can move programs over to your computer and back again. It will explain how to do it on the TIVO website. I did it and it works great. I finally got the second TIVO with the dual tuner. Now I have them all link together and it is wonderful.
> 
> Good Luck. I hope this helps some.
> 
> Max


That's a nifty solution, and I might look into this if it becomes a problem again, but as I've said later in this thread, our problem is solved for now. My wife has scads of empty space on her upgraded series 2, and right now, my TiVo's NP is 100% my stuff, and 0% my wife's. Yes, we now have one joint show we watch together, but we're 100% caught up on that show.

Actually, there's really more than just that one show we watch together. There's a couple of SP's of mine I have on my TiVo, such that when I watch them, sometimes my wife is there watching it with me, but not always.


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## Sniffy69

She'll NEVER get around to watching them, guaranteed. Just delete them all and go to marriage counseling about that decision later.


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## timckelley

Sniffy69 said:


> She'll NEVER get around to watching them, guaranteed. Just delete them all and go to marriage counseling about that decision later.


Which post is that in reply too? I'm starting to get a little astonished at how many comments I'm seeing that are outdated based on more recent posts.


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## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> That's a nifty solution, and I might look into this if it becomes a problem again, but as I've said later in this thread, our problem is solved for now. My wife has scads of empty space on her upgraded series 2, and right now, my TiVo's NP is 100% my stuff, and 0% my wife's.


OK we can all rest easy now, Tim's problem has been solved. No need for any more solutions or suggestions. Tim and Mrs. Tim are good to go.

Here's the funny part. Read the above paragraph, and look what Tim said:

"Our problem is solved...for now".

Which means even Tim knows it's only a matter of time before he's back saying my wife did so and so and it's a problem because of so and so. I'm telling you, this thread has at least a ten year shelf life, maybe longer. The funny thing is EVERY possible solution has been proposed, but people aren't crazy enough to go back and read this entire thread, so every three months we get back on the same merry go round and throw around the same theories, and solutions.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Put me on that lise, because I keep expecting this thread to go away...and it never does!


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> Which post is that in reply too? I'm starting to get a little astonished at how many comments I'm seeing that are outdated based on more recent posts.


Tim....newsflash:

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK AND READ 500+ POSTS GOING BACK ALMOST FOUR YEARS!!!

This is why thread shouldn't be four years old, and why this thread is bordering on insane. WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE SAME BASIC THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

And you're surprised people are rehashing old comments?


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Tim....newsflash:
> 
> PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK AND READ 500+ POSTS GOING BACK ALMOST FOUR YEARS!!!
> 
> This is why thread shouldn't be four years old, and why this thread is bordering on insane. WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE SAME BASIC THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
> 
> And you're surprised people are rehashing old comments?


Frankly, yes. Whenever I see a long thread, I either do the work and read before posting, or I don't post. There are many, many threads longer than this at TCF.

I am making an effort, by the way, of not talking about the same thing over and over again. So far, your the only one calling for the closing of this thread. I will indeed stop posting if (a), people stop asking me questions, and (b) there is a general agreement this thread should end.



RangersRBack said:


> "Our problem is solved...for now".


Yes, it is indeed solved for now. The first time I did a TiVo upgrade (actually it was buying a new TiVo, not really an upgrade), I got 2 1/2 years of TiVo happiness out of it. The second time I did an upgrade (last year), will hopefully get me another 2 1/2 years of happiness. Or maybe, my wife is cured of her problem now.


----------



## DevdogAZ

This thread should definitely NOT end. It's hilarious every time I open my e-mail and there are new replies.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> Frankly, yes. Whenever I see a long thread, I either do the work and read before posting, or I don't post. There are many, many threads longer than this at TCF.
> 
> I am making an effort, by the way, of not talking about the same thing over and over again. So far, your the only one calling for the closing of this thread. I will indeed stop posting if (a), people stop asking me questions, and (b) there is a general agreement this thread should end.


Dude I'm not asking for the thread to be closed...I never said that. I think it's pointless and ridiculous to talk about your wife and Tivo capacity issues over and over and over again for four years, but I'm not the forum police.

Besides, I get a kick out of this thread, why would I want it to be closed?

However, this thread doesn't go on and on and on because people ask you questions. You bring up your issues, we discuss them and then the thread goes away for 2-3 months...and then YOU start it up again. With a different problem regarding your wife and Tivo capacity issues.

Do you listen to the same CD over and over and over again too?


----------



## RangersRBack

TivoFan said:


> And it only took 3 years 8 months!


Oh it's not solved...no way it's solved.

Was it solved when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I don't THINK so!

Solved would mean this thread would go away because there is nothing further to discuss. Believe me, this thread is JUST GETTING STARTED!


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> Dude I'm not asking for the thread to be closed...I never said that.





RangersRBack said:


> This is why thread shouldn't be four years old, and why this thread is bordering on insane.


That sounded like a recommendation for closure to me.



RangersRBack said:


> However, this thread doesn't go on and on and on because people ask you questions. You bring up your issues, we discuss them and then the thread goes away for 2-3 months...and then YOU start it up again.


I admit that sometimes I do start it back up again, when I have an update to the situation, because I've gotten impressions that many people would like updates. TCF is filled with threads where the OP comes back with updates, and it's generally welcomed.

There are plenty of other times though, that this thread has continued because somebody else has posted to it and/or asked me questions.

I'm really not sure how much salt I should put in your critique of the worthiness of this thread, because you seem to be almost alone in your criticism.

Plus the TCF newletter has declared this the second hottest thread, so who am I to argue with that?


----------



## supersleeper

I have three TiVo's and have NEVER had this problem, but I only save the "Save to I delete" option only for my MUST SEE's. I think it is a matter of prioritization. two of our TiVo's are networked and they sometimes offset each other to record programming that the other cannot because it is busy. One series 2 is in our bedroom (Networked) the other is in our living room (networked) and the last series 1 (not networked) is in the kids playroom and records nothing but cartoons. This setup works perfectly for us.

Another thing you can do is delete programs that she won't notice  . Believe me, she won't notice. Not many of our programs are set to "Save until I delete" but my wife too does not delete recordings. I've tried to tell her to delete the recordings after I have marked them as "save until..." but she doesn't grasp it.

Also, at some point she has to realize that she is going to miss programming just the same as if it were not deleted, because the maximum amount of programs you can save a "Save until I delete". This is actually worse, because she will miss the NEW episodes.


----------



## murgatroyd

RangersRBack said:


> Was it solved when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I don't THINK so!


This is better than watching "Jaywalking" on _The Tonight Show_. 

Jan (not saying "/pops popcorn" because I would choke on it when I laughed)


----------



## JustAllie

murgatroyd said:


> This is better than watching "Jaywalking" on _The Tonight Show_.
> 
> Jan (not saying "/pops popcorn" because I would choke on it when I laughed)


Yeah, that was hysterical. Those German bombers sure had to fly a long way.


----------



## RangersRBack

timckelley said:


> That sounded like a recommendation for closure to me.
> 
> I admit that sometimes I do start it back up again, when I have an update to the situation, because I've gotten impressions that many people would like updates. TCF is filled with threads where the OP comes back with updates, and it's generally welcomed.
> 
> There are plenty of other times though, that this thread has continued because somebody else has posted to it and/or asked me questions.
> 
> I'm really not sure how much salt I should put in your critique of the worthiness of this thread, because you seem to be almost alone in your criticism.
> 
> Plus the TCF newletter has declared this the second hottest thread, so who am I to argue with that?


A number of people have talked about the lifeline of this thread, I'm not alone.

Yeah you said 'second hottest thread' a few times, so congratulations, it sounds like you enjoy that. Not sure what the criteria is to make it a hot thread, but if it's new ideas and concepts, I'm afraid we're all falling a bit short there. Even you noted that people were rehashing old ideas.

But who can blame them, it's unrealistic to ask someone to sit there for hours going through 500+ posts!


----------



## RangersRBack

supersleeper said:


> I have three TiVo's and have NEVER had this problem, but I only save the "Save to I delete" option only for my MUST SEE's. This setup works perfectly for us.


See here is the thing. You have to be a fan of this thread (yep, I'm one of the few), OR SIT HERE FOR HOURS AND READ EVERY POST to realize that Tim's problems actually have nothing to do with Tivo, or storage, or capacity, or deletions, or anything electronic for that matter.

People keep naively posting remedies, or solutions, and 'what worked for them'. When the truth is, NOTHING will work for TIM. Nothing whatsoever!!!

Tim could have an entire roomful of Tivos, all with unlimited capacity, and we would STILL be discussing what his wife did to the fifth Tivo from the left last night. We discuss because...he discusses.


----------



## cheer

JustAllie said:


> Yeah, that was hysterical. Those German bombers sure had to fly a long way.


You know you're getting old when you begin to suspect that most people don't get Animal House references anymore.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

RangersRBack said:


> Not sure what the criteria is to make it a hot thread,


 have somone other than the OP continuously posting critiques oif the threads while other people see the thread pop up on the first page for the first time and thus decide to post their 2 cents and then all the regular viewers keep coming back to see what is new and before you know it you get good numbers in both the posting and views column and bingo - the software picks it up as the second hottest thread.

but maybe yours was a rhetorical question


----------



## RangersRBack

ZeoTiVo said:


> have somone other than the OP continuously posting critiques oif the threads while other people see the thread pop up on the first page for the first time and thus decide to post their 2 cents and then all the regular viewers keep coming back to see what is new and before you know it you get good numbers in both the posting and views column and bingo - the software picks it up as the second hottest thread.
> 
> but maybe yours was a rhetorical question


It was, but that poses a bigger question in the grand scheme of things...

Is a rhetorical question still rhetorical if someone answers it???

Hmmmmm


----------



## RangersRBack

OK it looks like this thread has finished yet another short-term run, I'm guessing it's no longer one of the 'hot topics' or whatever it was in the newsletter.

So who wants to predict when Tim will come back and tell us the latest news of what his wife is doing, or not doing? 

My prediction is we hear from Tim again on May 24. He seems to be able to go three months between postings, and then he has to come in and tell us his latest Tivo/wife problems. And it starts all over again.

Your prediction?


----------



## hyachts

My prediction is that you will contribute many more posts and, consequently, subtract more value from this thread than anyone, including the OP.


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## RangersRBack

hyachts said:


> My prediction is that you will contribute many more posts and, consequently, subtract more value from this thread than anyone, including the OP.


Value and this thread in the same sentence? Quite the stretch!


----------



## timckelley

RangersRBack said:


> My prediction is we hear from Tim again on May 24. He seems to be able to go three months between postings, and then he has to come in and tell us his latest Tivo/wife problems. And it starts all over again.
> 
> Your prediction?


My prediction is that you'll have to eat crow, because today is June 28th.


----------



## musika

upgrade now for betterness


----------



## timckelley

New development, and so time to update this thread.  

For the last month, I've been having a lot of stuttering on my TiVo, so 5 days ago I finally got around to replacing the hard drive. (If anybody's interested, see this thread for the complications and problems I ran into while doing this.)

Anyway, I did this, and all was dandy and my TiVo was running really nicely with no stuttering, but then earlier tonight I was watching a show on my TiVo and right in the middle of the show, it went totally dead as if a light switch were flicked or something!  :down:

I tried unplugging and plugging back in several times and this did nothing. No drives spinning or anything, it's like there was no power. So I opened up the case, and I think the cord is good because when I plug it in, I hear a very faint clicking noise, but no spinning is happening. At this point, I don't know how to fix the problem, so I posted about my problem over on the Help forum, and am awaiting advice. Meanwhile, I'm out of commission and dead in the water. 

My wife is asleep, but without her permission I just went downstairs to her TiVo and transferred all my SPs onto her TiVo. 







I looked at her RD list and see she has about 8 pages worth, so it looks like she's not about to run out of space in the imminent future. However, she's got a 250GB hard drive and her default quality is "High Quality" (not "Best Quality" like I use), so I kind of expected to see more than 8 pages of RD there. Her Now Playing is fairly large, and she has something like 50-60 SPs/WLs! 

Oh well, hopefully I can get my TiVo fixed before space gets to be a problem on her TiVo.


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## jtlytle

Can you sneak in and change the quality to BEST and pray she won't noticed?


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## RoyK

jtlytle said:


> Can you sneak in and change the quality to BEST and pray she won't noticed?


Good God man, are you trying to get the guy killed?


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## bryus

Wow, I am new to this thread because until recently I only visited the DirecTiVo thread. My wife and I managed to get by for 3 years on a 35hour DirecTiVo box. Only once in that time did we "lose" shows because we ran out of space. And, that was during the Olympics where I could only record 4-7 hour blocks.

I upgraded to a 77 hour drive earlier this year which made it a lot easier to manage our space. Then the 2nd input went bad so we switched last month to a S2 DT and cable. This has led to a new complication with space, the quality level. On the DirecTiVo everything is best quality so it's easy to count up the space remaining in hours. Now, not so much.

Still, we don't have too much trouble maintaining just one TiVo. I think a big part of this is that we tend to run 20-40 season passes. I can't believe how many people I see have 60+ season pases. I even saw someone say they had ~115 somewhere.

It makes me feel like I don't watch much TV at all. 

My thought on this is that Tim's wife has strong packrat tendencies, but that they aren't dangerous because she's just filling up a hard drive with television shows. It's not like she's filling rooms with compulsive shopping. 

My wife and I just avoid these problems by being critical of our recording and eliminating shows we don't watch. If it goes past 3 or 4 episodes not watched maybe we're not into it. Also, once something is watched, it's gone. I am storing movies we wanted to see on a hard drive connected to my PC while I have free HBO for six months, then we can watch those when our now playing list runs out.


----------



## timckelley

jtlytle said:


> Can you sneak in and change the quality to BEST and pray she won't noticed?


When I upgraded her to 250GB, my hope was for her new space to last her a couple of years or more before it gets to be a problem, and she starts attempting to trespass onto my TiVo again.

Your idea would undermine this goal of mine, and so I'm definitely rejecting your suggestion.  I'm not sure why you'd think I should do that.


----------



## barbeedoll

Timber said:


> Delete her stuff and blame it on a TiVo bug!
> 
> -=Tim=-


 I'll share my food and my bed, but every relationship is truly tested when one is forced to share a Tivo.

I "feel your pain"", as I have a husband with the same "don't delete anything" mantra.

Here's my suggestion, and the way I solve the problem. I have a Tivo with a DVD burner attached...I burn the shows to a DVD, and if and when he watches them is now on his shoulders. But I've "saved" them for him.

On my other Tivos that are without a burner, I transfer the shows to my PC with Tivo to Go, then burn them to DVD from there.

The option to watch shows on a computer or portable DVD viewer in the car (when waiting for kids), on trips when someone else is driving, watch some with the kids on long trips, watch while outside and the kids are running around, etc., while waiting in a Doctor or Dentist's office..you get the idea, may give your wife more of an opportunity to catch up with her viewing on her own timetable.

A gift of a portable viewer for her may be much cheaper for you than a divorce. And no one should have to suffer the stress and worry of missing his own shows with a perfectly good Tivo sitting there.

Barbeedoll


----------



## ZeoTiVo

it seems no one read deeper into this thread when the wife had a VCR hooked up and was amassing booksehlves full opf tapes of shows she was going to catch up on someday. The lerger hard drive helped alleviate that archive problem as she was able to watch more shows before they were in danger of being deleted and at last report does not compulsively archive like she used too..

making the media more portable than a VCR might help some but does not seem to fit the family life style Tim has shown in various posts


PS to tim - I never saw any discernible difference between best and high other than the top quality setting took far more drive space for, to me, no benefit. If she went down one notch she would get a lot more hours of space on the drive


----------



## timckelley

She still to this day does seem cured of her VHS tape amassing problem. If she were still doing it, I'd still be assembling bookshelves for her.  But it's been a long time since I've done that. Still it would bug me to have a Now Playing as thick as hers, but I can see where some people might like it, because they feel it gives them a lot of variety to choose from for watching. Plus, I suppose it's kind of pointless to have 250 GB, if you don't intend to have a thick Now Playing.

By the way, a few days ago, somebody has agreed with my analysis that my TiVo is most likely suffering from a broken power supply. I'm still waiting for my 9thTee power supply I ordered.

My wife also told me yesterday that one of my SouthParks I thrust onto her TiVo was conflicting with one of her shows, so she rescheduled my ep for a different showing. (Odd as I received no conflict messages when I scheduled it.) One thing I'm worried about is that the SouthPark guide data lately has not had the actual ep name in it, so there's no guarantee that when my wife rescheduled my ep, that she actually picked the same ep or not. 

I jokingly told her my shows carried higher priority than hers, and she reminded me that it's her TiVo.


----------



## mearlus

A recent 'solution' occured for one of our Tivos a few months ago. The HD died  That sort of taught a lesson on archiving stuff for the sake of archiving it.

What I've done to combat filling the Tivo's HD's up with 'stuff I want to keep forever' is have the wife go through the now playing and tell me what she wants kept. I think transfer it over to my desktop and once I have a bunch on their I transfer them over to my fileserver for archiving. At some point she says she'll sit down and edit/extract the clips from the videos and burn it to DVDs. (Generally Ice Skating/Sports are what she keeps)

I'm assuming the editing will be a project for me in the future


----------



## barbeedoll

ZeoTiVo said:


> it seems no one read deeper into this thread when the wife had a VCR hooked up and was amassing booksehlves full opf tapes of shows she was going to catch up on someday. The lerger hard drive helped alleviate that archive problem as she was able to watch more shows before they were in danger of being deleted and at last report does not compulsively archive like she used too..
> 
> making the media more portable than a VCR might help some but does not seem to fit the family life style Tim has shown in various posts
> 
> PS to tim - I never saw any discernible difference between best and high other than the top quality setting took far more drive space for, to me, no benefit. If she went down one notch she would get a lot more hours of space on the drive


 You're right. I must not know as much about Tim's family life style as some others.

I saw the "VHS tape amassing problem" and recognized myself before I really understood all of my options with Tivo. Although it had not previously been part of my lifestyle (which was VHS tape amassing"), I now have found a solution by moving on to other viewing formats for my Tivo files. I'm only saying it is a possible answer to Tim's dilemma.

Sorry if I put too much of myself in Tim's situation. It was only a suggestion.......(Grin)

Barbeedoll


----------



## timckelley

Speaking of VHS, my wife just asked me other the weekend about the government mandated changed signals going to digital instead of analoge. She wants to know if her stockpile of VHS tapes will still work 20 years from now. I told her as long as we have a VCR in the house, and an old-style TV, they can be hooked up to play her tapes. For all I know, even the HDTV's might accept an analog input, but I don't really know the answer to that question.


----------



## headroll

timckelley said:


> Speaking of VHS, my wife just asked me other the weekend about the government mandated changed signals going to digital instead of analoge. She wants to know if her stockpile of VHS tapes will still work 20 years from now. I told her as long as we have a VCR in the house, and an old-style TV, they can be hooked up to play her tapes. For all I know, even the HDTV's might accept an analog input, but I don't really know the answer to that question.


Unless they have turned to dust by then.

-Roll


----------



## kiosan

My goodness. I just read this thread from beginning to end (how sad for me) while listening to a Tivoed film I've been waiting to watch for about a month because my husband wasn't interested (in the film).

Tim, you're a good egg. Mythological even.

I don't believe I've ever seen a thread go on for so long on any BB I've been involved in. Ever. Amazing.


----------



## RangersRBack

kiosan said:


> My goodness. I just read this thread from beginning to end (how sad for me) while listening to a Tivoed film I've been waiting to watch for about a month because my husband wasn't interested (in the film).
> 
> Tim, you're a good egg. Mythological even.
> 
> I don't believe I've ever seen a thread go on for so long on any BB I've been involved in. Ever. Amazing.


It defies belief, that's for sure. Tim may be a good egg, but Mrs. Tim not so much.


----------



## Polcamilla

timckelley said:


> Her Now Playing is fairly large, and she has something like 50-60 SPs/WLs!


There may not be a correlation between the size of the Now Playing and the number of SPs/WLs. We have around 70 on our bedroom TiVo, but that's because it's my 'Museum of Television' -- I refuse to delete shows from the Season Pass Manager that have been cancelled. About 1 in 5 list items is something that is actually still being aired (how sad is *that*?).

How long until your TiVo is fixed? This can only end badly if it doesn't return to you soon!


----------



## timckelley

I'm expecting the new power supply tommorrow, so hopefully by tommorrow evening I can fix it. If for some reason (but recent posts in the Upgrade Forum seem to think this is unlikely) I find that my two drives are overwhelming the power supply, I'll cut back to one drive, but then I'll have to redo guided setup, which means it won't be until late Saturday before I can start recording things again on my TiVo.


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## JaneiR36

Why not take the opportunity to upgrade to Series 2? They've got some excellent prices out right now less than $100 on both Amazon & TiVo's websites. Not sure if those prices are for new subscribers only. Since you know how to change a hard drive, you can upgrade from the 80 hour Series 2 to 250 or whatever. You've mentioned you wish you could do home networking, throw the POS away and take the chance to upgrade your box, now! 

PS: First post here! New user, too. I mainly registered since I couldn't do an advanced search for one of my TiVo problems without registering. And now that I'm registered I feel the need to make pointless contributions. Wonder how many of your new members have the same problem.


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## timckelley

I'd consider the upgrade to series 2, but my series 1 is lifetime subscribed. Also, bad news: I put in the new power supply, and the exact same problems remain.  This means the problem is not the power supply or the hard drive. :down: I wonder if the motherboard is bad? I'm thinking of calling the manufacturer (Phillips) on Monday when they open to see if I can get some opinions on how I should proceed.


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## StanSimmons

I had Philips "repair" a HDR112 several years ago, they charged me $99 for a swap unit. It shipped from Waco, TX, and was a refurb. I don't know if they have any left these days.

Check your PM's


----------



## timckelley

StanSimmons said:


> I had Philips "repair" a HDR112 several years ago, they charged me $99 for a swap unit. It shipped from Waco, TX, and was a refurb. I don't know if they have any left these days.
> 
> Check your PM's


Thanks for the PM, I actually read it and replied to it before even seeing this post here in this thread.


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## timckelley

Wow, I have some excellent news. When I called Saturday, they told me I needed to call the manufacturer, Phillips to attempt to get the TiVo fixed, but that since it sounds a lot like my motherboard is kaput, Phillips will most likely replace my TiVo with a new unit, and then TiVo, inc will transfer my lifetime onto it.

Then StanSimmons made the generous offer of gifting me one of his unsubbed Series ones, and I could see if they will transfer my lifetime onto it.

I called Phillips, but they won't let you even talk to anybody about your problem, unless you first pay them $19.

So I decided to call TiVo inc back, and I re-explained my situation. I remember them saying I should get the manufacturer to get me a working box, but I asked them if I got a box from a person (i.e. StanSimmons), instead, could I still transfer lifetime on it?
She put me on hold because she said she wanted to see if I'm even allowed to transfer lifetime. She came back and said they will indeed grant me a one-time special transfer of my lifetime, but here comes the astounding part:

*She says it doesn't have to be series one! I can buy a series 2 or even a series 3, and she will transfer my lifetime onto it for free!*
:up: :up:   WOW!

I've come to sort of regret only getting a series 1, and my hindsight regret can now be erased! I made definitely sure to get a case number from her, so that when I call back to get my lifetime transferred, they will not forget the deal we made. 

My first thought is that a series 2 will do all the extra things I've been wanting to do, but can't currently do. My next thought is that series 2 DT might be nice for those cases where there are conflicts. Those situations don't happen very often at all, but I suppose if I'm ever going to upgrade, now's the time to do it. My final thought is: I wonder if I should get a series 3? I currently subscribe to analog cable, but I'm told there's a bit of HD programming available even with my analog cable (namely the local networks plus KLRU). So if I get a series 3 (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a series 3 the one that can record in HD quality?), then I will be underutilizing it's abilities, as the vast majority of my content is SD. Furthermore, I don't own an HD TV.

However, about a week or two ago, I started considering purchasing an HD TV because my upstairs TV has such shoddy picture quality. I could just buy a brand-new SD TV, but I feel like HD is the way of the future, and if I'm going to shell out for a new TV, maybe I should go ahead and plan for the future, and get an HD TV.

Also, I'm thinking that even though most of my content right now is SD (via analog cable from Time Warner), that doesn't mean it'll always be that way. If there's a chance I'll eventually get more HD content, I suppose it's possible that 3 or 5 years from now I might regret not having a series 3 TiVo. If I'm ever going to get a series 3, this is my one and only chance to load lifetime onto it for free. But aren't series 3 expensive? I see I need to give this some serious thought.


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## JustAllie

Tim, you'd be foolish to transfer that to anything other than a TiVoHD. Seriously -- you could turn around and resell it and still make out like a bandit. Or keep it and have the TiVoHD for many years without paying a monthly fee. :up:


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## timckelley

The other thing is, she said I have to buy retail, and not straight from TiVo, because if I buy from TiVo, it'll already be subscribed. The only retail place I know to buy from is Best Buy, so I guess I should go shopping soon. (By soon, I mean today or tommorrow.  )

BTW, this lifetime that I currently have on my broken S1 is something I only put there when I heard they were doing away with lifetime. Thanks to this forum, I was warned just in time before they abolished lifetime, and I subbed my S1 with only days to spare before it was too late. Now, because of that, I get to transfer it to a higher TiVo.


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## JustAllie

Don't open the box until the lifetime is transferred to the new TiVo, just in case you have trouble getting the next customer service rep to believe that you were offered this deal.


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## timckelley

JustAllie said:


> Don't open the box until the lifetime is transferred to the new TiVo, just in case you have trouble getting the next customer service rep to believe that you were offered this deal.


That sounds like good advice, but the only risk is that what if the TiVo is defective and I have to take it back to Best Buy? It'd be less complicated to do this if the lifetime wasn't yet transferred. Hopefully they accept returns in the first month even if the box is opened, but I guess I better confirm that first.


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## JustAllie

timckelley said:


> That sounds like good advice, but the only risk is that what if the TiVo is defective and I have to take it back to Best Buy? It'd be less complicated to do this if the lifetime wasn't yet transferred. Hopefully they accept returns in the first month even if the box is opened, but I guess I better confirm that first.


Swapping lifetime service from a broken box to another box of the same type is not that hard to swing.

But it does not hurt to verify BestBuy's return policy in any case.


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## timckelley

This is going to be so nice that for the first time in my life, I'll be able to move shows between our two TiVos. I suppose I should consider the possible drawback down the road, should my wife ever have space problems again, that might think of my TiVo as an overflow storage area.  Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Also, the room I'm thinking of putting my new TiVo in has a cat 5 outlet in it, so I should be able to hardwire it to our network. Unfortunately the other TiVo (an S2 single tuner) is not near a cat5 outlet, so I'd have connect it wirelessly. (It's currently not connected to our network at all.) Fortunately my router supports both wired and wireless connections.)

(BTW, I'm open to negotiation with my wife on who gets which TiVo, but it make sense for mine to be the TiVo HD - which is the model I'm currently leaning towards - because if we get an HD TV, we can save money by letting the upstairs TV be the HD TV, the reason being that I only sit about 5-6 feet from it, which means it's makes sense to get a smaller size screen, which translates into a big $ savings.)

Going from series 1 to HD, two tuners, networking, HMO, etc. This is going to be a huge leap in technology. 



JustAllie said:


> But it does not hurt to verify BestBuy's return policy in any case.


I'm now leaning towards Amazon, because of their lower prices (around $250 for the TiVo HD)


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## mamosley

I had to go the second tivo route my self. Even though the Mrs. has seen every episode of will and grace, reba, mash and not to mention the rachel ray, montel williams, opra, and ellen degeneras wish lislts the tivo was always full. The tivo was in the bedroom and we had the cable comapany dvr in the living room on the hdtv (couldnt justify the price of the s3 even to myself). Or course she wouldnt watch her shows until I was in bed trying to go to sleep. So once I found out the multi room viewing was coming to the s3 and the tivo hd, out with the cable dvr. Now she wanted to try to set all the same stuff to record in the living room stating she shouldnt have to watch her shows in the bedroom which is funny because she wouldnt touch the cable dvr because it wasnt a tivo. So I got a little mean and deleted all her series recordings and wish lists off the tv hd the put a parental password and even set rated g shows to require pin. Now she cant set her shows when I'm not at home. She tried to complain but I told her she'll just have to wait for mvr feature because I am not about to have to filter thru all her shows.


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## StanSimmons

One thing to keep in mind....

TiVoHD does not have MultiRoom Viewing yet.

I have been very happy with my S2 Dual Tuner.


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## JaneiR36

Tim, I just wanted to say, this is such excellent news and I'm very happy for you and your wife!!!!!


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## timckelley

StanSimmons said:


> One thing to keep in mind....
> 
> TiVoHD does not have MultiRoom Viewing yet.
> 
> I have been very happy with my S2 Dual Tuner.


Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know about that - I should factor this into my decision.


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## ZeoTiVo

StanSimmons said:


> One thing to keep in mind....
> 
> TiVoHD does not have MultiRoom Viewing yet.
> 
> I have been very happy with my S2 Dual Tuner.


I am fairly confident of TiVoPony's post that MRV will come to S3/TiVo HD in November.


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## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know about that - I should factor this into my decision.


TiVoJerry also said that MRV will be enabled in November.

I have to agree with the redhead in that you should go ahead and get the TiVoHD or Series 3.

Even if you don't get an HDTV right away, the Series 3 or TiVoHD will hook up to a standard definition TV fine.
And dual tuners rock.


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## janry

At least your wives will use TiVo. I'm stuck having 3 VCRs hooked up to accommodate my wife's refusal to give TiVo a try.


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## timckelley

JYoung said:


> TiVoJerry also said that MRV will be enabled in November.
> 
> I have to agree with the redhead in that you should go ahead and get the TiVoHD or Series 3.
> 
> Even if you don't get an HDTV right away, the Series 3 or TiVoHD will hook up to a standard definition TV fine.
> And dual tuners rock.


Yes, I agree with this reasoning, plus I can see myself having HD TV in the not far future, so I went ahead and ordered a TiVo HD last night from Amazon, for about $253, with no tax and no shipping. 



janry said:


> At least your wives will use TiVo. I'm stuck having 3 VCRs hooked up to accommodate my wife's refusal to give TiVo a try.


Wow. My wife is slow to technology, but she quickly embraced TiVo years ago when I first bought one.

My wife is suggesting the idea of putting the the TiVo HD downstairs in the family room instead of upstairs in the bedroom. My reason for the bedroom is that I sit only about 5-6 feet away from that TV, so if that's the room our eventual HD TV goes, I would probably be happy with a 26 or 27 inch TV. (27 inch is what we have there now.)

My wife's logic is that the downstairs gets more use (mainly because she and my son mainly watch that one, though my wife sometimes watches the bedroom one too. Also, guests would watch the downstairs TV. But to be honest, guests rarely watch our TV anyway, and my son mainly watches shows like the Wiggles, but I suppose that doesn't mean the Wiggles doesn't deserve to be in HD.

I pointed out to her that she sits across the room from that TV, so if that's where we put an HD TV, we'd need a much larger, and therefore, much more expensive TV. However, what's there now is a 27 incher, and she said she's happy with that size, even from that distance. But I'm thinking a 27 inch HD TV, might have less square inches than a 27 inch regular TV, because of the aspect ratio, plus if a lot of content that hits is is going to be SD content, doesn't it chop off the left and right sides, effectively making the 27 inches into a much smaller TV? I'm therefore thinking that just to keep what she's used to, we'd need more than 27 inches.

But I'm not close minded. If she is truly going to be satisfied with 27 inches downstairs, I'll consider it, and then I'll move her TV up to the bedroom, which btw, gives a much nicer picture than the one in the bedroom currently does. Plus her TV supports closed captioning, while mine doesn't, so that would be another improvement. I'm thinking we should visit a store, and look at some TVs and then sit an appropriate distance away from it, and then I'll ask her what she thinks of that size. Maybe then she'd really know how many inches she can live with or without, and then if she says yes, we need 40+ inches or something, then putting the HDTV in the bedroom might make more sense to her.

One other point to consider is that I'd be happy with an LCD (as opposed to plasma) HDTV in the bedroom, because I normally sit squarely in front of it. I'm told that plasmas are good from watching from any angle, whereas LCDs aren't (you need to be in front). But (I could be wrong) I think plasmas are more expensive, and I'm not sure everybody downstairs sits directly in front of that TV. So this could be another financial argument for upstairs instead of downstairs.

Oh, and my final point is that her S2 has a 250 GB drive in it. I don't think the TiVo HD has quite that big a drive, but admittedly, it's upgradable to potentially have a lot more than that.


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## bryus

janry said:


> At least your wives will use TiVo. I'm stuck having 3 VCRs hooked up to accommodate my wife's refusal to give TiVo a try.


Wow, that's just archaic. My wife and I were visiting my sister and I spent about an hour playing with her Hughes DirecTiVo box. I had been wanting TiVo since it first came out but never could justify the cost. The time I spent with it convinced my wife that this was a good thing and me that I could never watch TV the old fashioned way again.

Within a week I had made the calls to switch from Dish to DirecTV and I haven't been without TiVo since. My wife can't stand to watch live TV and I think we would give up a lot before we would give up our TiVo.

Tim,

I have a 27" TV in my living room. I have the same concern as you. How do I keep the same size image?

After eyeballing them in the store it looks like it would take a 37" to 42" 16:9 screen to provide the same height as a 27" 4:3 screen.


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## ZeoTiVo

Here is a link with a straight forward look at HD size vs SD size.
http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=92

and Cnet overview gets into specific viewing distances and size of various TV types etc..
http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108580-2.html

PS -I am stuck on how 3 VCRs could be seen as preferable to one DVR and a now playing list but Mileage does vary as they say


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## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Yes, I agree with this reasoning, plus I can see myself having HD TV in the not far future, so I went ahead and ordered a TiVo HD last night from Amazon, for about $253, with no tax and no shipping.


Well apparently, Jerry and Pony lied.
TTG and MRV for Series 3 and THD was turned on today.



http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=371193


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## JustAllie

JYoung said:


> Well apparently, Jerry and Pony lied.
> TTG and MRV for Series 3 and THD was turned on today.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=371193


Sweet!

Now I want to go home early and transfer shows just for the heck of it.


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## ashu

Happy for ya, timckelley


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## ZeoTiVo

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am fairly confident of TiVoPony's post that MRV will come to S3/TiVo HD in November.


well so much for being confident it would be November.


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## JYoung

JustAllie said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Now I want to go home early and transfer shows just for the heck of it.


Since I'm working from home for a couple of reasons today, I don't have to rush home to MRV....


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## JustAllie

ZeoTiVo said:


> well so much for being confident it would be November.


The problem is that they've now set up an expectation of beating deadlines in the future. Heh heh....


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## ZeoTiVo

JustAllie said:


> The problem is that they've now set up an expectation of beating deadlines in the future. Heh heh....


Hmm, maybe TiVoPony knew it was before Halloween all along


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## RoyK

JustAllie said:


> The problem is that they've now set up an expectation of beating deadlines in the future. Heh heh....


Anyone can beat a deadline if you don't mind leaving a lot of wreckage behind.


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## timckelley

RoyK said:


> Anyone can beat a deadline if you don't mind leaving a lot of wreckage behind.


So this new release is going to be bug-filled? I hope not.


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## RoyK

timckelley said:


> So this new release is going to be bug-filled? I hope not.


I can't speak for 9.2 - we S2 owners are the ones stuck with the wreckage. Don't tell me - I know the "hang in there - TiVo will fix it soon" motto by heart.


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## ZeoTiVo

RoyK said:


> Anyone can beat a deadline if you don't mind leaving a lot of wreckage behind.


Glad my 5 S2 TiVo DVRs sailed into 9.1 with smooth waters and full sails


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## timckelley

5?!?!?    
Update: I got an email from Amazon yesteday evening that they shipped, and the TiVoHD is estimated for arrival today. 

I'd be surpised if it could ship that fast, though.


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## Havana Brown

kiosan said:


> My goodness. I just read this thread from beginning to end .


Excellent work for a newbie. :up:


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## Enrique

Is this the longest running thread in TCF history? almost 4 1/2 years!!


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## timckelley

Update: two days ago, around 8 PM, I received the TiVo HD from Amazon, which was a pleasant shock to me that they shipped so fast, considering it was free shipping, and they say the price for free shipping is 3 to 5 day delay.

I hooked it up that night, and overnight imported guide data and did guided setup.

Then yesterday, I called TiVo to transfer lifetime onto it, and the guy asked me again why I was getting this done. I reminded him I had a case number, and he asked, "so is this because Phillips would have charged you a lot to fix the old TiVo?" At this point, I started to get worried that they were going to give me some flack on this issue. I told him the truth, "No, they wanted $20 to even talk to me about it, so I called TiVo and told them about the troubleshooting I'd already done. I ruled out the power supply because I bought a new one and installed it. I also ruled out the hard drives drawing too much power, because I tried disconnecting power to the HDs, and not even the fan would spin when powering up. Based the likely problem being the motherboard, your colleague went ahead and authorized this transfer, and created the case number to document it."

He then asked where I bought it, and I told him Amazon, which I also got preauthorized from TiVo inside that case number before buying it.

At this point (suspense building  ) said, "Okay, that's fine. Let me see if I can do this." After a few minutes he said he thinks he successfully transfered it, and told me to wait a couple of hours to see this.

Later last night, I forced a call in to TiVo from my TiVoHD, and after doing so, I checked the system info, and
*Behold! Subscription status = Lifetime!*

So I've succeeded in my mission.  I'm now the enviable owner of a lifetimed TiVo HD, and there was no fee to transfer my lifetime over. 

On another note, I'm wondering if one reason they were so generous to me is because during the whole time before they authorized the transfer, I let them know I was happy to go through whatever channels, if necessary, to get the S1 repaired or replaced, rather than junk it and start a new activation on an S2 or S3. Had I had my heart set on an S2 or S3, they would have known they could have forced me to pay for a new activation (i.e. a monthly fee), and there was nothing I could have done about it. But in this case, they already knew they weren't going to get any monthly fee out of me, so maybe it made them more willing to authorize the transfer. I'm just speculating, wondering why some people are less successful than others in getting this sort of cooperation.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> I'm just speculating, wondering why some people are less successful than others in getting this sort of cooperation.


Nice guys do not alwasy finish last. Enjoy the TiVo HD :up:


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## JustAllie

Enrique said:


> Is this the longest running thread in TCF history? almost 4 1/2 years!!


When it hits 1,000 posts, though, Tim will have to start a new thread. Or his wife will have to start deleting recordings.


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## Polcamilla

So.....where's the new TiVo going? Upstairs or down?

I'm curious because it seems like your wife has an uncanny knack for always negotiating the better deal for herself.


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## timckelley

For now, based on the fact that her series 2 has 250GB, but this new one has a bit less than that, and based on the fact that her TiVo already has all her season passes on it, we put the new one upstairs. The other argument that makes sense is that the TiVo HD comes with a built in ethernet port, and the upstairs room has an ethernet outlet already in it. I also, along with the new TiVo, bought a USB network adapter to put on the downstairs TiVo. For the time being, we're not using these, because our internet has been down for almost a week, and has been scheduled to come back up anyday now. (Maybe today if we're lucky.) If we just have to switch out the TiVos, that means I'd move the wireless adaptor to the TiVo HD, but then I'd need to buy a wired adapter for the S2.

We still haven't completely agreed on where the new TV will go whenever we get around to buying an HD TV though, but I expect the HD TiVo to follow that TV. (Post 587 shows the pros and cons of the two possible scenarios.) I'm thinking we'll eventually resume this conversation after we see some price tags. She might start to see it my way, because that's one thing we agree on - not to spend huge amounts of money.


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## JYoung

She hasn't realized that it's dual tuner yet, has she?


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## timckelley

JYoung said:



> She hasn't realized that it's dual tuner yet, has she?


Good point. Just yesterday I told her how nice it was that when I pad a show out 5 minutes, causing it to want to clip an adjacent show, that clipping is no longer an issue, because it can use the dual tuners to avoid clippage. 

So I guess she knows about it. So far she hasn't acted too envious.

(P.S. The fact that clipping is even available is a luxury for me, because my old S1 didn't have clipping as a feature.)

I'm also really liking the the folder feature, and it's nice when I open a folder, to see a screen devoted to the SP, with each row showing the ep name. This is so much nicer than the S1 was.


----------



## old64mb

Caught up on this thread over lunch, tried not to spit anything out from laughing or shaking my head. I do hope counseling has helped, and if you're seeing one still please do mention what you did with the SP transfer. Possibly just amusing, but there could be other issues involved on your end.

On a less important note, upgrade your THD to 750 GB or 1 TB ASAP.

It will allow periodic archiving of things from your wife's S2 (with the nice equilibrium of how it takes time to do so, in which case she and you actually have to talk about it and can't do it spontaneously - important for both of you I'm betting) and more importantly you'll proactively head off any issues on how much space HD takes up - since I can easily see that coming down the pipe.

I should note that one recent petty pleasure that I had was cutting off service on the S2 I left with my now-ex once the year long S3 transfer was about to run out. She may not have even been using it recently, given she was overseas. More than likely, my generosity in keeping it going wasn't noticed as I suspect it's been in storage.

But...given the amount of grief I went through about how attached I was to Tivo, along with her screams of bloody murder if 'her' shows weren't recorded as she quickly became addicted despite continuing to complain about how I couldn't live without it...let her live without it or confront how she liked the thing too - by paying for it. The CSR and I had a good laugh about it.

Best of luck.


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## timckelley

At the risk of irritating some who think this thread has gone on too long, I thought it might be a good idea to post a relevant new development that's been going on. My wife has discovered our new MRV feature. (Is MRV the right term? I'm referring to the ability to move shows from one TiVo to another.)

My wife seems to enjoy watching TV at nighttime after our son goes to bed, which is also when I like to watch TV. (She used to do most of her TV watching at daytime, but this seems to have changed now.) At this time she's in our bedroom, but many times she beats me to the bedroom because sometimes I have work to do on the computer before I'm ready to retire to the bedroom to watch my TiVo.

Before, she's just watched some my shows with me, but since I've bought the TiVoHD, and also bought a wireless adapter for her TiVo S2, this means that for the first time in our lives, MRV is now available. So I've been finding more and more of her shows being transferred onto my TiVo 

Now I don't blame her for wanting to watch TV in the bedroom, and I expect her to make some use of this feature. But I told her that I'd rather she only transfer what she intends to watch that night. I'd rather her not convert my TiVo into a repository for shows that she'll eventually watch.

She counters with comments that she has some shows she thinks I'll like, so she takes the liberty of moving them onto my TiVo so that I'll have the benefit of having them there. I guess sometimes she's right, but often times they're shows I really don't want. As of yesterday, I think there was a bit over a screen worth of her shows on my TiVo. We watched and/or deleted some, so now it's a bit under one screen worth.

I think I've had to remind her of the ground rules more than once in the last month, so hopefully this will sink in, but I see I should keep monitoring my TiVo, just to make sure it doesn't get out of hand with too many of her shows on it. In fact, two days ago, I was ready to go up and watch my TiVo, but she was watching one of her transferred shows and I decided I had no interest in it, so I went down to her TiVo to transfer one of my shows down to it so I could watch it.

Unfortunately, all my shows are in Best Quality, so they transfer slowly, so while I was waiting I found one of her shows that interested me, and watched it instead. (Her Now Playing is huge, so there's a fair chance that there's something on it that I'll like.)

Anyway, I think that was the only time I wanted to watch my TiVo but couldn't due to her watching something I didn't like, so it's not too bad a problem right now. I suppose one solution is to swap TiVos. Since she enjoys watching TV in the bedroom so much, that could work. But there's still a lot of my shows on my TiVo that she likes too, so this idea of swapping maybe isn't the best idea. I guess we'll stay like we are for now. Last night I told her to stop transferring shows until she watches / deletes some of what's already there. 

Overall, I'm enjoying the new TiVo though. Like I said, only once die I effectively get kicked off of it, but many many nights I've been watching my own shows on my own TiVo without a problem.


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## JustAllie

Tim, if she transfers something to your TiVo, you can delete it whenever you want to. If she wants to watch it on another day, she can transfer it again. A whole screen full of stuff she _might_ want to watch is excessive.

And start recording most things at High quality. It's a perfectly fine quality unless you have a really large television or watch high-action stuff. And it transfers faster. I get just about real-time transfers, making it possible to start transferring something and then start watching it right away.


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## Lensman

Hey, Tim. For the record, I love your saga!

Have you established that you can do whatever you want with your Tivo? That is, delete any shows there?


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## janry

Time to turn MRV off except when you need it. Tell her TiVo turned the feature off due to a bug. If you wife is like mine (very lo tech), she will buy it.

Thank goodness my wife can't MRV her VCR tapes to my TiVos.


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## ZeoTiVo

OK- first let me say again I find it odd that the two of you can not just see the TiVo DVRs as community prperty

now since you have deisginated them as his and hers
again I am reading how she slowly creeps onto your space and starts to control it. She should just MRV the show she is going to watch but she obviously is still obsessed with keeping as many shows around as possible. She may feel out of control in delaing with your son's illness and thus seeks control in other areas. I know when my Daughter had a serious illness(all better now ) I built a big playfort in the back yard as my therapy, the one place I could control how things went as I built it from my own plans.

Now as to the specific issue of MRV - you could go into the IP settings on your TiVo and fudge it so the two do not see each other adn then set it back when you need it. A bit of hassle though.
You could do the kidzone feature I suggested a while back. There is no view of other TiVo DVRs so no MRV in Kid Zone. A simple password entered by you would let her use the full TiVo and MRV but you cancontrol the when and cut her off if needed. Of course this would be a direct confrontation of her control.

also
you could stop using BEST and use HIGH instead. there really is little visible difference but a huge difference in size and thus space on the TiVo and MRV speed. I use HIGH even on TiVo DVRs with 500 gig of space.
Which brings up the idea of getting the DVR expander for your TiVo HD to add 500 gig easy as plugging it in.


of course saving/adding sapce as always does not address the real issue of your wife always seeming to encroach no matter the setup.


----------



## timckelley

I guess you're probably right that I shouldn't be so worried about space as it's easily expandable, especially on the TiVoHD. I think yesterday I was down to 20 suggestions, so there's no certainly no crisis in progress. But sometimes I do like to have a good number of suggestions so something good is in them for me to watch, so that's part of my space concern. Also, I just wanted to make sure the one screen of her stuff doesn't turn into 2 or 3 screens, because that could be a problem.

As for why it's not community property: I think it's because she records such a huge amount of stuff, that separating our TiVos ensures I have enough space, and also that I don't have conflicts. Now that I have dual tuner, I suppose conflicts aren't nearly as big a problem as before.

But JustAllie's idea is a good one: if I wind up having too much of her stuff, I should be able to delete some with no problem, because she can always retransfer it. If it comes to that I may try that, but I think I should warn her before I actually do it.

I guess I'll try out High Quality to see what I think. Years ago, I stopped doing it because I thought Best Quality was noticably better. I guess I'll do another test and see what I think. If we get an HD TV though, I assume there's not really a way to save on space when HD content is being recorded. That would really be a test of our space management abilities if/when that happens.


----------



## JYoung

It's your TiVo, you can delete her MRVs when you want if she insists on transfering stuff.



ZeoTiVo said:


> OK- first let me say again I find it odd that the two of you can not just see the TiVo DVRs as community prperty


Quite a few couples have his and her TiVos.



ZeoTiVo said:


> also
> you could stop using BEST and use HIGH instead. there really is little visible difference but a huge difference in size and thus space on the TiVo and MRV speed. I use HIGH even on TiVo DVRs with 500 gig of space.
> Which brings up the idea of getting the DVR expander for your TiVo HD to add 500 gig easy as plugging it in.


I used Medium quality for most shows when I watched primarily on a standard TV.



ZeoTiVo said:


> of course saving/adding sapce as always does not address the real issue of your wife always seeming to encroach no matter the setup.


Too true.


----------



## JYoung

timckelley said:


> If we get an HD TV though, I assume there's not really a way to save on space when HD content is being recorded. That would really be a test of our space management abilities if/when that happens.


Yep.
Depending on the HD feed, a one hour show will consume 4.3 to 7.1 GB of disk space.
The stated capacity of the stock TiVo HD is 20 hours or HD recording.

(I really need to expand the drive on mine.)


----------



## classicX

timckelley said:


> She counters with comments that she has some shows she thinks I'll like, so she takes the liberty of moving them onto my TiVo so that I'll have the benefit of having them there.


That sounds like _womanspeak_ to me.

I'm no expert, but I think the translation is as follows:

"I want you to start watching more shows that I like so I can feel free to fill up your TiVo."

BTW - I can't believe this thread is still alive. Is this a record?


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## classicX

Just transfer one of your shows to her TiVo for every show she transfers to yours - when her older stuff starts getting deleted early, she'll stop that quickly.


----------



## alyssa

classicX said:


> That sounds like _womanspeak_ to me.


WOMANSPEAK !?!?

Tim- get the Esata drive, preferably one for each unit. In this case bigger is better.


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## JustAllie

timckelley said:


> But JustAllie's idea is a good one: if I wind up having too much of her stuff, I should be able to delete some with no problem, because she can always retransfer it. If it comes to that I may try that, but I think I should warn her before I actually do it.


You can use the network to double-check that the program is still on her other TiVo before you delete it. I think it's perfectly fair for you to delete stuff willy-nilly from your TiVo if it's still available on her TiVo. As I said, she can re-transfer it. The first time you do it, tell her that's the plan.

If she's moving, say, 5 shows to your TiVo so that you'll both have a bunch of shows to choose from to watch together that night, then do your deleting the next morning rather than just before you settle down to watch TV together.


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## ZeoTiVo

alyssa said:


> In this case bigger is better.


now that is Woman_plain_speak


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## classicX

alyssa said:


> In this case bigger is better.


What do you mean, "in this case?"


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## mattack

Next time, on As the Tivo Turns...


----------



## handy

My wife had a 40 & 80. Mine is a Toshiba 160 w/burner. After watchin a show with her one night, I mentioned that it looked terrible. She was using basic to hold everything. My solution was to upgrade both to 500 & 300. I used the old drives in my computers. Don't be scared to install them, it's easy. Life is good.


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## JYoung

alyssa said:


> WOMANSPEAK !?!?
> 
> Tim- get the Esata drive, preferably one for each unit. In this case bigger is better.


The Mrs.' TiVo is a plain Series 2 so I don't think that an eSATA drive will work without serious modification.....


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## alyssa

JYoung said:


> The Mrs.' TiVo is a plain Series 2 so I don't think that an eSATA drive will work without serious modification.....


true, adding a second hd to a series 2 is a bit more complicated but tim's been around so he's up to it. right tim?


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## pilotbob

This thread clearly illustrates "Paralysis of Analysis".


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## timckelley

alyssa said:


> true, adding a second hd to a series 2 is a bit more complicated but tim's been around so he's up to it. right tim?


Yes, I know how to add drives, but I don't think we're at this point right now. My wife hasn't run out of space. The latest chapter of "As the TiVo Turns" (as mattack puts it  ) is not that she's running out of space, but that she's starting to transfer more and more stuff onto my TiVo. Her motivation, I don't think, is to access my empty hard drive space, but rather it's to give her the flexibility to watch stuff upstairs or downstairs.

I suppose this is reasonable, as long as she doesn't dump excessively onto my TiVo.


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## alyssa

Perhaps a 'time on my tivo' limit might be of use. for example- she can transfer something for a few days but you have permission to delete it after a couple of days.
I would suggest you need to define the "when I can delete a show off my tivo" point.

As to the womanspeak issue, you all might find this funny


----------



## ZeoTiVo

alyssa said:


> Perhaps a 'time on my tivo' limit might be of use. for example- she can transfer something for a few days but you have permission to delete it after a couple of days.
> I would suggest you need to define the "when I can delete a show off my tivo" point.
> 
> As to the womanspeak issue, you all might find this funny


TiVo DVRs default time limit is 2 days - and the icons easily show when something is set as "able to delete" for space needed. They could go with those keep until settings and any special case that might come up - a movie she wants to watch together could be set at Keep Until 7 days for instance.

The danger in this is that it allows encroachmnet on his TiVo and might inlcine her to go encroach even further.


----------



## retired_guy

LiveBlues said:


> It's just me and my wife at home and we have 4.


we've got five for the two of us and a sixth I've loaned to my daughter. I also keep recordings on my PCs.

My wife keeps not only programs she hasn't seen, but anything she's seen and she thinks she may want to see again (for some series, such as "First 48 Hours", that means every episode), along with anything she thinks my daughter would like to see when she comes over. Not that we actually watch much a second time.

I've been married almost 50 years and don't have a lot of faith in her changing her ways. Since the Pioneer is a DVD recorder she has generated trillions of bytes of recordings. I don't think I'll see large enough disks anytime soon. Sometimes you should have to take the good with the bad. Ulcer medicines can help.


----------



## alyssa

ZeoTiVo said:


> The danger in this is that it allows encroachment on his TiVo and might incline her to go encroach even further.


Tim, you've got to set the rules before it goes too far. Give the spouses an inch and they'll end up with a mile.
See retired guys post for the ultimate in end games-

Initially I owned all the tivos in our house, they were therefor mine. Then the S3 came along, due to the cost I let my husband pay half. For the next three months we had heated discussions about me occasionally using both tuners, half of the tivo being his & all that hooie.

He couldn't plop in front of the TV & flip channels when I had programed both of the tuners. so I set up a TV input for straight cable but he couldn't be bothered with that, "to complicated" was the response. Mind you he's no slouch in the smarts department, web designer, musician & climbing guide etc.

We finally reached an agreement of me programing in the sports shows & him learning how to really operate the tivo/TV and be bloody well respectful of my programing.


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## JYoung

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo DVRs default time limit is 2 days - and the icons easily show when something is set as "able to delete" for space needed. They could go with those keep until settings and any special case that might come up - a movie she wants to watch together could be set at Keep Until 7 days for instance.
> 
> The danger in this is that it allows encroachmnet on his TiVo and might inlcine her to go encroach even further.


It's not like the Mrs. has a history of abusing the KUID .......


----------



## classicX

Does TiVo have an option to password protect "keep until I delete" recordings? In other words, you need to put in a password in order to delete any recorder that says "keep until I delete"?

Then, if you were to do this to all of your SPs, you would basically be prioritizing your shows as far as the TiVo is concerned, and if space is an issue, it would automatically delete her transfers first.


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## timckelley

Fortunately, her list of transfers has shrunk to half a screen over the weekend.  Partly this is because I had more work than usual to do at nightime, and during this time she watched and deleted some of her transferred stuff. I assume she's also deleting it off her own TiVo, now that she's watched the shows.


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## pilotbob

alyssa said:


> Then the S3 came along, due to the cost I let my husband pay half.


I never understood this mentality. Since I've been married it (all income) has been "our" money... and all purchases were "our" things.

I have heard the "our money" (what he earns) and "her money" (what she earns) and say it jokeingly at times. But, my wife and I consider ourselfs as a true partnership so I couldn't pay for "half" of something.

Sorry to be off topic... or is it?

BOb


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## jmpivo

Like many on this thread, we faced the same issue once the wifey got all tech-geekie and learned to Tivo. I remembered the old quip about a dude wanting to be correct or happy. I chose the latter but told my beloved that I wanted a new TIVO for Xmas. She was eager to please (or to get her own Tivo) and I have a spanking new S2DT now also on the home LAN. She keeps all her Season pass stuff on the family room Tivo (S2) and I have all my season pass stuff on the S2DT in my office. I happily sit next to her while she watches Desperately (Insane) Housewives, HGTV, Design this & that, Fashion whatever, etc while I'm warping to some SciFi world wirelessly using the Tivo Desktop on my laptop and earbuds. I just know at some point, she'll tap me on the shoulder and say she's run out of space but I already have my response in hand... and it will be a dubious 'well that sux, how about an upgrade for your birthday'!
-jeff.
p.s. Thanks for all the laughs in this thread too.


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## timckelley

pilotbob said:


> Sorry to be off topic... or is it?


I also consider our money to be jointly owned, but you can understand how a TiVo might not be. For example, her purse is hers, and not 'ours', because only she uses it.

This being said, I confess that sometimes, I get the impression that she considers some money to be 'hers' and not 'ours', but I don't agree with that concept.


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## Polcamilla

Tim--

You missed your semi-annual bump. How are things on your TiVoHD?


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## guppies

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.
> 
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


 You can archive the shows you have watched on the VRC as well. If she complains about the quality, then tell her she can watch them right away. After you archive them, take the "keep until I delete" off. This way if she watches it before it is deleted she will be happy and you will have room to tape more.

I tape more than my hubby does sohe bought me my own HD Tivo for my birthday. This way I can tape what I want and leave it there for as long as I want!

Good Luck!


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## guppies

You can also add a SATA Drive. Just buy the largest one you can. If she fills that up then there is no hope!


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## jilter

I have a S3. Can you "add" a drive to that?


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## timckelley

Polcamilla said:


> Tim--
> 
> You missed your semi-annual bump. How are things on your TiVoHD?


[/looks around for RangersRBack, but see's that the coast is clear to post an update, because he's not here. ]

My wife has pretty much stopped transferring her shows to my TiVo, as she does almost all of her TV watching on her TiVo now. But I still probably have about 10 or so hours of her shows that have been sitting on my TiVo for months now. I don't really have a space problem, though sometimes I've kind of wanted more suggestions that I have. If it bugs me too much, I guess I could try offloading them through my network to one of our computers. (I assume this is possible.)

Or buy a SATA drive, but I hate to spend money for something I don't really need that much. Just yesterday I reminded my wife of these shows that have stagnated and just sat in my NP for months. I said "How about I transfer them back to your TiVO?" But she doesn't want that, because even with all the space she's got since I upgraded her, she has filled up most of it!  She doesn't have a lot of room for new shows. I also think part of her backlog is General Hospital again.

I could have sworn that when I first gave her all that space, she said she wouldn't fill it up. Well, she is currently not moving shows to my TiVo, so my castle for the moment not being invaded.


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## imasofa777

timckelley said:


> I guess I could try offloading them through my network to one of our computers.


Yes you could, just make sure you have TiVo desktop installed on one of your home computers and you could transfer all of her stuff off of your TiVo. You could also use it to archive things of your own, movies, series etc.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> But I still probably have about 10 or so hours of her shows that have been sitting on my TiVo for months now.


Hopefully set to "Keep until space needed" so all it mucks with is your suggestions

Keep in mind if you setup offloading shows to the PC, your wife will figure out hat she can store lots of shows that way. I would just keep her on her TiVo and let her shows roll off your TiVo if need be.


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## timckelley

Yes, her shows are KUSN, thankfully. But these last couple of days I did go fishing in suggestions for something to watch, and nothing appealed to me, but it's possible that even had her shows been gone, the selections might not have been much better.

I've been slacking for months now with my thumbing, so maybe suggestions isn't doing as good a job as it could be.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> Yes, her shows are KUSN, thankfully. But these last couple of days I did go fishing in suggestions for something to watch, and nothing appealed to me, but it's possible that even had her shows been gone, the selections might not have been much better.
> 
> I've been slacking for months now with my thumbing, so maybe suggestions isn't doing as good a job as it could be.


ther is hope - with 9.4 on the TiVo HD you can look at all your thumb ratings and manage them


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## Polcamilla

timckelley said:


> I've been slacking for months now with my thumbing, so maybe suggestions isn't doing as good a job as it could be.


Maybe you've already watched everything.


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## JimSpence

guppies said:


> ...
> I tape more than my hubby does sohe bought me my own HD Tivo for my birthday. This way I can tape what I want and leave it there for as long as I want!
> 
> Good Luck!


What is this *tape* you mention? 

Sorry, it's been a while since I've been able to ask that question.


----------



## timckelley

Today my wife has told me she might want to get a third TiVo for the house. 

I suggested "How about I up the space on your TiVo?", but her reasoning for the 3rd TiVo is that sometimes my son wants to watch the Wiggles on her TiVo at the same time she wants to watch something, so she thought she could put the third TiVo in the living room so she can watch it while my son watches TV in the family room.

Since most of the other stuff besides "The Wiggles" that my son watches is on DVD, I figured an unsubbed S1 would be good enough for him, and to just have a manual repeating recording get him a constant supply of recent Wiggles episodes.

But I guess this idea won't work, because my wife wants the option to also watch her stuff in the family room when my son isn't watching that TV (meaning one TiVo will be exclusively for my wife, and another would be split between wife and son - the third is upstairs and pretty much my TiVo), and I don't think it will be acceptable for any of my wife's content to be on an unsubbed S1.

I don't really like the idea of shelling the $ out for a 3rd lifetime sub and a brand new 3rd TiVo. The conversation sort of ended today with no plans to buy a 3rd TiVo, and my wife didn't press it, because she realizes the money end of her wish, but I worry based on multitudes of past discussions about things my wife wants, that if I ignore it, it keeps resurfacing and resurfacing in future discussions, and then eventually mushrooms to point that if I don't agree to buy it, she gets really disappointed and hard to live with until I concede.

At this point, it's too soon to say if that will happen here, or if she will decide the luxury isn't worth the $ and just forget about it, so we'll see what happens. Stay tuned to a future episode of "As the timckelley's TiVo Situation Turns" to find out what happens.


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## alyssa

timckelley said:


> .....but I worry based on multitudes of past discussions about things my wife wants, that if I ignore it, it keeps resurfacing and resurfacing in future discussions, and then eventually mushrooms to point that if I don't agree to buy it, she gets really disappointed and hard to live with until I concede.
> ...... Stay tuned to a future episode of "As the timckelley's TiVo Situation Turns" to find out what happens.


Way better than a soap tho!
Sounds like you've got till Christmas to figure something out based on my female intuition.
so in the glass half full mode-She gave you a big hint of something to get her for Christmas.


----------



## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Today my wife has told me she might want to get a third TiVo for the house.
> 
> I suggested "How about I up the space on your TiVo?", but her reasoning for the 3rd TiVo is that sometimes my son wants to watch the Wiggles on her TiVo at the same time she wants to watch something, so she thought she could put the third TiVo in the living room so she can watch it while my son watches TV in the family room.
> 
> Since most of the other stuff besides "The Wiggles" that my son watches is on DVD, I figured an unsubbed S1 would be good enough for him, and to just have a manual repeating recording get him a constant supply of recent Wiggles episodes.
> 
> But I guess this idea won't work, because my wife wants the option to also watch her stuff in the family room when my son isn't watching that TV (meaning one TiVo will be exclusively for my wife, and another would be split between wife and son - the third is upstairs and pretty much my TiVo), and I don't think it will be acceptable for any of my wife's content to be on an unsubbed S1.
> 
> I don't really like the idea of shelling the $ out for a 3rd lifetime sub and a brand new 3rd TiVo. The conversation sort of ended today with no plans to buy a 3rd TiVo, and my wife didn't press it, because she realizes the money end of her wish, but I worry based on multitudes of past discussions about things my wife wants, that if I ignore it, it keeps resurfacing and resurfacing in future discussions, and then eventually mushrooms to point that if I don't agree to buy it, she gets really disappointed and hard to live with until I concede.
> 
> At this point, it's too soon to say if that will happen here, or if she will decide the luxury isn't worth the $ and just forget about it, so we'll see what happens. Stay tuned to a future episode of "As the timckelley's TiVo Situation Turns" to find out what happens.


If The Wiggles are really the reason for this, buy some of the DVDs.
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1221419...ords=The Wiggles&rh=i:aps,k:The Wiggles,i:dvd

I suspect this isn't totally true though.


----------



## MikeAndrews

LooseWiring said:


> Upgrade.
> 
> Your wife preferrably, but upgrading your TiVo should work almost as well.


That only delays the inevitable. Trust me.

I added 1TB and was thinking that was like infinite space, so I added and extended every season pass I could imagine, until it started deleting stuff a week later.

Now I try to hold down it to 100 season passes.


----------



## Brighton Line

I go with buying the DVD or just burn some DVD's yourself. I use to tape everything of the Purple Thing for my newphew when he was young, made tapes for him (Tapes?? What's that) so he could watch it whenever on whatever.
Heck, now I could just give him the laptop and he could watch how to say Thank You all day long.


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## timckelley

Actually we do have some Wiggles DVDs, which my son sometimes watches. I can ask her, but I have a feeling that in the morning while's she's getting herself and my son ready for school she thinks it's easier to use the TiVo than to bother inserting a DVD, waiting for it to load in DVD memory, then usign the menu commands to get the video started.

But there's a greater issue at stake than how my son can watch the Wiggles. As I said, there are times that she wants to be able to watch her TiVo stuff in the living room while my son watches the TV in the family room (whether it be DVD or TiVo is irrelevant), and there are other times she wants to watch her TiVo stuff in the family room. For now things seem okay, since it's been two days since she brought this up, and it hasn't resurfaced, but it might eventually though.


----------



## MickeS

Yes. You need a third TiVo. Sorry.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

Brighton Line said:


> I go with buying the DVD or just burn some DVD's yourself. I use to tape everything of the Purple Thing for my newphew when he was young, made tapes for him (Tapes?? What's that) so he could watch it whenever on whatever.
> Heck, now I could just give him the laptop and he could watch how to say Thank You all day long.


in the words of baby Bop - "Fill it up 1, Fill it up 2, Fill it up 3"

You might as well just get the third DVR* as she has a somewhat legit reason she can use to work on you with. After that she will not and you can stand firmer on her not using your TiVo.

*Disclaimer - I have 6 running TiVo DVRs for various uses in the house and my 4 kids - so I may be biased toward just getting a 3rd DVR


----------



## timckelley

Update on the situation.

My wife's recently deleted folder has hit absolute zero. She has totally and completely used up all the space on her TiVo. 

She's now losing shows unless she watches something every day to make room. In fact, she's been doing a little of that, and also a little of actually choosing something to delete, because she doesn't want the TiVo to make that choice on her behalf.

I applaud her ability to actually delete something without watching it. This is a new landmark development that strikes to the heart of the OP of this long and nobel thread, "Wife won't delete recordings". After all the years since this thread started, she finally has done it! 

But let me say, she just deleted only a little bit - just enough so her To Do list will still record.

At the same time all this has been happening, I've been making a deal with one of our other TCFers here, who has nicely offered to sell me one of her lifetimed TiVos. She gave me permission to mention her name, by the way: jenhudson. She apparantly had an extra TiVo that's been sitting in her closet unused, so she sold it to me.

It's just a series 2, but that's fine, as we have no HD TVs in the house anyway, and even if we ever get one, one of our other TiVos is HD capable anyhow. But the TiVo she sold me (at a reasonable price) also has it's hard drive already upgraded to the same size as the one my wife already had. (System info says up to 340 hours, which I assume is at basic quality). So this doubles my wife's space. I just set up this TiVo a few minutes ago.

But like my wife said, it's not just the extra space she sought, but now when my son is watching TV in one room, she can now watch her TV in the other, so she feels this will give her more of a chance to watch her content and stop it from piling up so much.

If she somehow fills up both her TiVos, then that will just seem whacked out to me, and I can't see an argument for further increasing her space after that. Surely she can live within the generous amount of space she now has. If not, I'll be pretty interested to hear her excuse.


----------



## timckelley

(bump)

I haven't looked closely, but I know she has many screens worth of movies sitting in NP on her second TiVo. She does watch some stuff on the second TiVo, but I think she uses it for storage and conflict resolution more than actually watching stuff. She's mainly using the second TiVo to store movies, and she keeps specials, series, and other nonmovie stuff on the primary TiVo. It's possible that she's filled up both TiVos , but I'm not really sure of that. I guess I could go look and see how much free space she actually has on it. I know that the primary TiVo she shares with our son does hover around zero free space, but there are always a few shows on it in NP for my son to watch, so she is indeed sharing it with him. He still watches DVDs too though (and, hard as it to believe, a few VHS tapes as well).



JustAllie said:


> Tim, you'd be foolish to transfer that [my lifetime from my old broken S1] to anything other than a TiVoHD. Seriously -- you could turn around and resell it and still make out like a bandit. Or keep it and have the TiVoHD for many years without paying a monthly fee. :up:





JYoung said:


> I have to agree with the redhead in that you should go ahead and get the TiVoHD or Series 3.


In hindsight, this is all excellent advice, because (as I mentioned in another thread), my employer was trying to make room in the office, and put their HD 32" CRT computer monitor (4:3 aspect ratio, supports 1080i resolution) on craigslist but nobody would make offers, and then we hired a new person, and they got desperate to make room in her future office before her first day on the job, so I took it off their hands for the sweet low price of $25  They also threw in a very sturdy cart for it to sit on (the monitor is quite heavy).

I wasn't sure if it could be converted to an HD TV, but with the help of some smart people here on TCF, I purchased a $58 device made by HDfury.com, which converts the HDMI output from my HDTiVo to the VGA input the CRT Monitor expects. The result is that the monitor now acts as a very nice HD TV, and the quality of the picture is mind boggling to me, because I've never had an HD TV before, so I didn't know what I was missing.

I still just have analog cable, so I also installed an antenna to pick up a quite a few local digital channels, along with something called "sub channels". Altogether around a dozen or so totally free channels, all digital, are now part of my quide data. (The antenna only cost me $11.99, one time fee only.) I'm piping the sound through a stereo, so I'm now enjoying lots of HD features that my HD TiVo has to offer, that I wasn't until recently getting.

So yes, choosing a TiVo HD to move my lifetime onto has worked out excellently. I never considered getting an HD TV to be high enough on my priority list, but for the low $ I just spent, I figured I should not pass that up.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

I guessed what year this thread was started and missed it by 2 years,


----------



## bzuka

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.
> 
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still all-in-one-pieceshrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


you can always talk to her and explain everything becouse you are the all-in-one-piece and maybe you soul buy some more device to watch eveything you want personally


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## ZeoTiVo

bzuka said:


> you can always talk to her and explain everything becouse you are the all-in-one-piece and maybe you soul buy some more device to watch eveything you want personally


this is a long thread and that has been said in at least 400 different ways.


----------



## timckelley

I've noticed lately, as more and more of my SPs are coming through my antenna, and recording in HD, that it doesn't take a lot to fill up my TiVo. My wife has for quite awhile now, stayed totally off my TiVo, so the TiVo situation has been pretty peaceful for awhile now.

But even my own SPs are enough to fill up my TiVo if I go too long without watching TV. I've never actually filled it up though. Once I came to within maybe 2 shows of being full, but I watched and deleted stuff, and I usually have about 10 or so shows in Suggestions (sometimes more). Still, not much compared to when I did everything in SD.

There are a couple of shows on there I haven't deleted because my wife told me she wants to watch them. But typically, a few months go by, she never watches it, and I eventually silently delete without telling her, and she doesn't seem to notice.

Meanwhile, she still has both her TiVos mostly filled up. She's back to watching General Hospital, and has weeks worth (at least) backlog of eps in her NP. She probably has over a dozen Biography shows too. Lots and lots of other stuff, but I'm not quite sure what it all is.

It seems like last year she had cut back from archiving, but lately I've noticed an increase in her archiving habit. Sometimes she still tapes to those archaic VHS tapes, but mostly she burns to DVD, so at least that's more uptodate technnology. They also take up a lot less shelf space. I can tell that she doesn't like to put off her tasks of offloading, because it makes room on her TiVo after she deletes it.

I know I've told her that we have the ability to transfer shows to our PC, but I think she'd rather have the stuff on DVD and/or VHS.


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## ZeoTiVo

this is one of my favorite threads but it seems like a soap opera in itself some times.


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## Dan203

You should pick up one of those DVR Expander drives. The TiVo HD units only have 160GB drives. If you were to add a 500GB DVR Expander and you would quadruple your disc space and never have to worry about running low on space again.

I added a 500GB one to my S3, which starts with 250GB, and right now I have the complete seasons of 4 different shows (9-12 episodes apiece) plus a couple dozen more recently recorded shows, all in HD, and I still have 48 recordings in the Recently Deleted folder. (I don't use Suggestions)

Dan


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## timckelley

Sounds like a nice Xmas gift idea.  I wonder how much those cost.


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## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Sounds like a nice Xmas gift idea.  I wonder how much those cost.


Since you've already replaced your TiVo drive before, I'm going to agree and disagree with Dan203 and suggest you swap out the hard drive on your TiVo HD for a larger one.

I dropped a 1TB drive in my TiVo HD this summer and I have lots of space.

See here for more info:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#S5


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## mattack

Does she ever watch the stuff she's archived to DVD?

I have *tons* of DVDs (DVD-Rs, DVD-RWs, and DVD-RAMs), and while I've been slowly transferring some stuff to an external hard drive (from finalized DVD-RWs, mostly music shows/recordings so I can hopefully get the audio off as MP3s at some point), I usually only watch something off DVDs to 'make more room on DVDs'..


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## comgenius1

timckelley said:


> I know I've told her that we have the ability to transfer shows to our PC, but I think she'd rather have the stuff on DVD and/or VHS.


If memory serves, there is a version of Nero that allows you to burn your tivo recordings to DVD once you have them on your computer.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> It seems like last year she had cut back from archiving, but lately I've noticed an increase in her archiving habit. Sometimes she still tapes to those archaic VHS tapes, but mostly she burns to DVD, so at least that's more uptodate technnology. They also take up a lot less shelf space. I can tell that she doesn't like to put off her tasks of offloading, because it makes room on her TiVo after she deletes it.


A 1T hard drive can be had for as little as $80 plus shipping. You might really consider upgrading her drive, yours, or both.



timckelley said:


> I know I've told her that we have the ability to transfer shows to our PC, but I think she'd rather have the stuff on DVD and/or VHS.


There are a lot of other advantages to offloading to a PC. First of all, in the long run it will take far less space and cost much less. It's also much faster and easier than copying to DVD or tape. Secondly, using an application like Galleon, one can have the programs archived to the PC automatically, with no intervention on your part, as long as they have some parameter in common (like similar or identical names or being part of a series). Thirdly, if you choose, you can have an external application automatically remove commercials. Fourthly, you can if you choose create a very handy folder structure for holding the programs. For example, I think you said she records soaps. She can create a separate folder for each Soap with sub-folders arranged by month, for example. Fifthly, if you find she is still being really bad about deleting stuff, adding 4TB or so to a PC is not terribly expensive or difficult, and I defy her to overflow a 4T system with SD videos. Finally, if the videos are stored on a networked PC, then they can be watched not only on any networked TiVo in the house, but also any other networked video device, like, say, a laptop.


----------



## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> and I defy her to overflow a 4T system with SD videos.


I've learned not to underestimate her abilities in this area. 

BTW, if I were to somehow install this 4TB system you speak of, I guess I'd need another 4TB to back it up, in case of a hard drive crash or something.


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## lrhorer

JYoung said:


> Since you've already replaced your TiVo drive before, I'm going to agree and disagree with Dan203 and suggest you swap out the hard drive on your TiVo HD for a larger one.


Yeah. My THD has a 750G drive, one of my S3s has a 1.5T drive, and the other S3 has a pair of 1T drives. My video server has an 8T RAID6 array.


----------



## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> I've learned not to underestimate her abilities in this area.
> 
> BTW, if I were to somehow install this 4TB system you speak of, I guess I'd need another 4TB to back it up, in case of a hard drive crash or something.


Ah, there's the rub! Yes, if you consider the data on the system to be important, then backing it up is a must. Note your current implementation does not have backups, except those she copies to DVD.

My own personal solution to the dilemma is, just as you say, an independent backup server. Another option, however, would be offline storage. You can get an eSATA / USB hard drive docking station for under $40. Using this, you can back up data to individual hard drives you keep on the shelf. With this method, the total storage invested in the backup solution can be only slightly larger than the *used* space on the PC, not the total space. It also allows you to easily mix-and-match drive sizes at will, meaning you can purchase only the additional backup space you need and / or at the lowest price per bit. Right now the lowest cost per bit of which I know are 1.5 TB drives, although I think I remember seeing a holiday special on a 2T drive for around $140 somewhere. In any case, a 1T hard dive fits in less space on the shelf than a 25 pack of DVDs, yet easily holds as much info as 120 Dual Layer DVDs. Of course, Single Layer DVDs are much cheaper than Dual Layer, but they take up more than twice the space, and are only a little less expensive to purchase initially than the hard drive. Re-write the hard drive a time or two, and you've totally blown away any DVD solution for cost, as well.


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## daveak

For not a lot of money, you can build a multi drive raid storage tower. Then if you lose one drive, you can still access your data. I did this for easily less than $500 to start (controller, 3 ea 1 tb drives, and enclosure - went raid 5). Videos (and our library of digital photos & music) are available from anywhere in the house. We have a central location for electronic media with lots of expandable storage. You can even go cheaper and still have as much storage, though I like using raid for data I do not want to lose.


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## pilotbob

daveak said:


> For not a lot of money, you can build a multi drive raid storage tower. Then if you lose one drive, you can still access your data. I did this for easily less than $500 to start (controller, 3 ea 1 tb drives, and enclosure - went raid 5).


Or if you are not crafty you can get a Drobo... yes, they are pricey but will grow with you and as time goes by bigger drives to add/swap into it will get cheaper.

BOb


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## TiVoEvan74

I couldn't read through this entire thread... much too long. Someone probably has already made this suggestion, but if not, here goes.

A good solution would be to add one of the Humax Tivos with DVD burning capability. You can then off-load shows onto DVDs and file them in a box with colored coded sleeves. That frees up the space and makes them accessible at a later date--for your own --or your wife's marathons!

You can get a refurbished one from weakknees.com with larger capacity drives in them, too. That way you won't have to offload as often, but can when you want or need to. BOBW = best of both worlds.


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## bareyb

TiVoEvan74 said:


> I couldn't read through this entire thread... much too long. Someone probably has already made this suggestion, but if not, here goes.
> 
> A good solution would be to add one of the Humax Tivos with DVD burning capability. You can then off-load shows onto DVDs and file them in a box with colored coded sleeves. That frees up the space and makes them accessible at a later date--for your own --or your wife's marathons!
> 
> You can get a refurbished one from weakknees.com with larger capacity drives in them, too. That way you won't have to offload as often, but can when you want or need to. BOBW = best of both worlds.


Well there you go Tim. Problem solved.


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## HeatherA

HeatherA said:


> We've worked this out in my house. 2 adults, 1 teen, 1 pre-teen very different viewing habits.
> 
> I have a 109 hour Tivo in my office/family room that I am in charge of. No one is allowed to mess with it except me. They may watch, but they may NOT delete anything. (Cable/Sat)
> 
> We have a 101 hour Tivo in the living room that the kids can set up season passes on as well as some from husband. All 3 have complete control over this and have had to figure out common courtesys to make sure they don't step on each others toes (Cable/Sat)
> 
> We have a 40 hour ReplayTV in the bedroom that we picked up for a song and use for backup and a few of husbands shows. Husband and I are the only ones that mess with this one. (Cable Only)
> 
> Works well and most everyone is happy. The only problems we run into are the kids fighting over who has the most season passes.
> 
> It's complicated but it works and we're a happy TV viewing family


Was reading some of my old posts on this forum and saw this one... so weird. My kids are now HS and College age and we have 2 TiVos and 4 MCE machines going in our house each day. No conflicts any more, no arguments and more season passes than we need, some in triplicate. I can't believe this thread is still going. Haha


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## lrhorer

daveak said:


> For not a lot of money, you can build a multi drive raid storage tower. Then if you lose one drive, you can still access your data. I did this for easily less than $500 to start (controller, 3 ea 1 tb drives, and enclosure - went raid 5). Videos (and our library of digital photos & music) are available from anywhere in the house. We have a central location for electronic media with lots of expandable storage. You can even go cheaper and still have as much storage, though I like using raid for data I do not want to lose.


One big caveat, though. RAID is not a backup solution, and it is not fault-proof. It is fault tolerant. More importantly, it cannot in any way make up for user error. A RAID solution should prevent the loss of data in the event of one or possibly more (depending on the RAID level) hard drives. If the user is willing to take the risk, then a RAID system is a moderately robust measn of storing data. Backups are the only answer to data loss from vectors other than a failing hard drive, though. In my case, the video server hosts a RAID6 array and the backup server hosts a RAID5 array. When 3T hard drives are introduced and come down in price, I will be converting all the drives in my RAID arrays to 3T drives, and taking all the old drives and using them for offline backups. This is probably a bit excessive for arrays smaller than 4T, as copying less than 4T of data can be done fairly quickly. For arrays larger than that, however, the odds of one array suffering a failure while trying to do a full restore to the other array start to rise high enough to be of concern.


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## emp

pilotbob said:


> I never understood this mentality. Since I've been married it (all income) has been "our" money... and all purchases were "our" things.
> 
> I have heard the "our money" (what he earns) and "her money" (what she earns) and say it jokeingly at times. But, my wife and I consider ourselfs as a true partnership so I couldn't pay for "half" of something.
> 
> Sorry to be off topic... or is it?
> 
> BOb


x2.

If your both contributing to your household then its "our" money, not "my" or "your" money.


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## timckelley

Well, here's a new update: Over a week ago, our house got flooded, but I was careful to save all 3 TiVos. My TiVo was upstairs, so has been continuing to record, but I had to unplug both my wife's TiVos. For the last week, we've been living at my mother-in-law's house, so my wife took the liberty of scheduling a few of her most important shows on my TiVo.

Today, I hooked up one of her TiVos in the same room as mine (upstairs) so that TiVo is back in business finally. But she's had no time to watch anything, so I'm sure her backlog has been getting bad. Today she made the decision to delete about 18 episodes of Biography without watching them, and more than a half dozen episodes of Chuck. She's accepting that she can't realistically believe that she's going to eventually watch everything that's been sitting in her vast Now Playing list, so this is some progress on her part, I think. (Just a dent however, because at Basic Quality, she fits a huge amount of shows in her Now Playing.)

Today, she asked me to bring her other TiVo over to her mother's house, as she has analog cable through Time Warner just like we do, so I'd think it will work here. (I'm currently typing this on my MIL's laptop.) Well, I kept looking all over the house, and I couldn't find her other TiVo. At long last I found it in one of the upstairs bedrooms... she had moved it there post-flood but forgot she'd done that. That room is jampacked with stuff that got moved into it since we had to evacuate everything from the first floor, as we're going to have to repainted and recarpeted, so it was hard to find that TiVo.

Then I realized I had no power cord, and after the longest time, I found it in the garage, because that's where I moved the TV cart/stand during the flood to save it from damage. (I had to move a bookshelf to get to it.) By the time I retrieved the items I was so dehydrated that I was getting dizzy and short of breath, because my house, being uninhabited right now, is being kept at a high temperature to save on air conditioning, and I did this right after going on a 1 hour neighborhood walk with my son. But after drinking about 40 ounces of water, I felt a lot better. I guess I'm now about to plug in and set up this TiVo I just fetched for my wife. 

She's made comments that she thinks she records too much, and would like to give one of her two TiVos to her mother, but her mother doesn't want it though, so I think we're still going to have all 3 TiVos in the family. Personally, I'd think she's want to keep both, because they're both single tuner S2s, and only one would provide no conflict resolution ability.


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## cyntax01

sounds like theres a physical addition here, beyond the mental addiction, akin to methamphetamines or heroin. Why not schedule a record of "Intervention" on A&E? or better yet, call the hotline and make some cash doing an episode. lol.
All kidding aside, upgrade the hard drives, its super cheap and mega easy to do.
Sorry about the floods -- being a new englander, judging by last March's "historic floods", I sympathize with your troubles at home (you're not a local, by chance?) Luckily, she'll have plenty of time to catch up on season 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 of deadliest catch before season 7 starts.


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## Polcamilla

Hey, Tim--- do you guys have some kind of Netflix on-demand capability?

It might be interesting to try to break the hoarding cycle entirely by convincing her that EVERYTHING she wants to watch is waiting for her on Netflix and she can just sit down and select what she wants when she wants it. No need to bother recording anything or to decide what's a priority to watch. She can just pick what she's in the mood for when she has time to watch something.


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## timckelley

I know my TiVoHD has that capability (though we've never subscribed to it); but I'm sure whether S2s have that. I they do, but I'm not sure; I'll have to look at the menus. We've talked about getting netflix, but haven't decided on it. One thing is for series currently being aired, I don't know that you can get that through netflix.

Other than that, can most things be gotten through netflix, and watched on demand (streaming through internet) like that? If so, it makes me wonder why we're paying over $60 a month (with no premium channels) to Time Warner Cable.


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## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> I know my TiVoHD has that capability (though we've never subscribed to it); but I'm sure whether S2s have that. I they do, but I'm not sure; I'll have to look at the menus. We've talked about getting netflix, but haven't decided on it. One thing is for series currently being aired, I don't know that you can get that through netflix.
> 
> Other than that, can most things be gotten through netflix, and watched on demand (streaming through internet) like that? If so, it makes me wonder why we're paying over $60 a month (with no premium channels) to Time Warner Cable.


no you can not get current stuff and likely things like biography are not even available at any time via Netflix and especially streaming.

The S2 can do amazon rental or buy - but be careful here - one show costs 1.99. Hoarding is bad enough but racking up a big bill is too dangerous to risk. Introducing your wife to that idea would be a bad thing.

As for Netflix, that you can stream on the HD models only but like I said, it will not be exactly what she watches now and introducing your wife to yet more stuff to watch may not be the best approach


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## aardwolf

Before I was married, I used to let my shows get built up like that. I would actually take VACATION DAYS from work so I could stay home and catch up on all my TV viewing.

At some point I came to the realization that I was addicted to TV. Now I limit myself to 1-2 shows per night (no more than 1.5 hours of total viewing). When new shows come out, we (I'm married with kid now) don't watch unless we eliminate an older show.

It helps that my daughter is 1.5 years old and we don't watch TV until after she goes to bed at 8.


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## WhiskeyTango

I think I'm in the same boat as the OP's wife. I do delete shows but just record way more than I can watch. I have 3 upgraded Tivo's and all of them were running low on space. I figured that I would be able to clear up space over the summer but was still recording too much. With the fall season starting I decided to start cleaning house. I deleted 2 full seasons each of Brotherhood, Damages, and Californication. I delted SP's for a few other shows and am looking at what other shows I watch but could do without like The Apprentice. It's all Tivo's fault. Before I got my first one I watched a normal amount of TV. With each upgrade and additional Tivo, I recorded more and more stuff that I normally wouldn't have bothered with.


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## allan

Ever since I got a Weaknees super-sized Tivo, I've piled up a lot of stuff, mainly just because I can. And I watch LESS TV than I did with a smaller Tivo, partly from lack of good stuff, but largely because I know I CAN skip without losing my recordings. Eventually, I'll fill this one up, and end up in that boat.


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## timckelley

What I don't understand is how it doesn't bother my wife to record everything in Basic Quality. She does that to maximize how many shows she can fit on there, but it's so grainy, I'd hate Basic Quality.

I'm the other extreme.. I record everything in Best Quality, or if I can pick it up on my antenna, it gets recorded in HD quality. I also have a smaller hard drive than she, so keeping up with my space can be challenging at times, as it can fill up fast.

Since it's now been over a week since I've lived in my house (it's still being repaired), I've taken steps by deleting 2 of my SPs. They are of old shows that have reruns all the time (Bonanza and Enterprise). I can see those reruns anytime. (Amazingly I never watched Bonanza as a child, and I'm watching it now for the first time... I rather like the show.) But all the new shows I'm keeping. The new season is about to start, and my current shows are mostly HD quality, so I hope to get back to the house soon, or even I could run out of space. I probably could go at least 2 or 3 weeks before that would happen, and I don't think I'll be out that long, but on the other hand, my wife is slightly poaching on my TiVo right now. But she has nicely chosen a very low quality (probably Basic) for her shows.


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## WizarDru

ZeoTiVo said:


> no you can not get current stuff and likely things like biography are not even available at any time via Netflix and especially streaming.


Biography is available on Netflix and quite a few episodes are available for Streaming.
http://www.netflix.com/WiSearch?oq=&lnkctr=srchrd-ips&v1=biography&btn=Search

Chuck is available through Netflix, but not the latest season. Some shows, like many of Disney's kid sitcoms and TNT's shows, have their stuff on Netflix streaming BEFORE it comes to DVD/Bluray. Netflix is far better with TV shows on streaming than movies. And if she's really taking THAT LONG to watch stuff, she's better served waiting until its on Netflix and she can watch at her leisure.


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## timckelley

New problem developing. I decided to replace one of my wife's TiVos with a new one that supports HD, since more and more of our analog channels are disappearing as Time Warner slowly evolves to digital. Actually I got her the TiVo Premiere, and I still have a TiVo HD. (I need to sell her old TiVo, which I haven't done yet.)

I have a cable card in my TiVo HD, but my wife doesn't yet have one, because our house is for sale, and she'd rather wait until we move to get one, because that way we only have to pay the tech once, instead of twice, to get her TiVo going with a cable card.

Well, there's already shows on channels no longer available on analog that she wants, so lately she's been recording them on my TiVo. I didn't mind because I had a lot of space, but I'm starting to run out of space now. So I got the bright idea to move them using HMO to her TiVo. I figure she may not have a cable card, but you'd think I should be able to transfer a show I recorded with my cable card down to her TiVo.

But on every single one of her shows, I'm getting the message "Transferring prohibited by the copyright holder", whatever that is. I see a really long thread about it on the TiVoHD forum, and I skimmed through it, but I still don't really understand it, except that TiVo is passing the blame, while others blame TiVo, so I don't know whose fault it is. I just think it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that I should be able to move her shows to her TiVo, but apparently I can't do that.  So my problems remain. 

I wonder, by chance, if I were to get her a cable card if this message would magically go away? Maybe not.


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## timckelley

Well, if nothing else, if I got her a cable card, she could record her future showings on her own TiVo, so long term I guess that's a solution.


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## bareyb

timckelley said:


> Well, if nothing else, if I got her a cable card, she could record her future showings on her own TiVo, so long term I guess that's a solution.


I looked but didn't see the thread you were referencing but it sounds like the copyright protection is probably coming down from the Cable Provider. Not much TiVo can do about that.

Getting her a cable card and her own TiVo will probably end this thread once and for all.


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## DevdogAZ

The restriction on transferring has nothing to do with whether yours or hers has a cablecard. It's just a fact of life with digital broadcasts. Some providers turn on the flag that only allows the show to be copied once, and that once was when you recorded it.

And I can't believe thus thread is still going.


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## bareyb

Once he gets her a cablecard this thread will finally retire. She'll have her own TiVo and can keep all the recordings she wants.


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## ZeoTiVo

bareyb said:


> Once he gets her a cablecard this thread will finally retire. She'll have her own TiVo and can keep all the recordings she wants.


come on guys - give him some real info.

1. come August 1st the FCC will require TWC to allow for self install of cable cards - thus ending the truck roll fee.

2. Unless he bought a premiere XL - once she starts recording the shows in HD - that hard drive is going to fill up 3 times as fast as before when recording analog SD shows.

DevdogAZ gave you the info on how it is the recording via digital channels that is adding that copy restricted flag. That will persist. However streaming between 2 premiere DVRs is being worked on and has been seen in the wild and reported on in this forum.


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## timckelley

ZeoTiVo said:


> come August 1st the FCC will require TWC to allow for self install of cable cards - thus ending the truck roll fee.


Wow; that's great news; the first I've heard of this. No need for me to wait for me to move to my next house then. Hopefully Time Warner acknowledges this new requirement when I call them. I know the last time I talked to them about it, which was a couple of months ago, they didn't mention anything about it, and said I'll have to pay to get the installation done.

It does seem odd that I can't transfer the shows, since I think the impression many have when we buy TiVos is that we'll be able to do this.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Unless he bought a premiere XL - once she starts recording the shows in HD - that hard drive is going to fill up 3 times as fast as before when recording analog SD shows.


 That's a good point. We haven't sold her old TiVo yet, and for now she's still using it, so the space problem isn't here yet, but I assume if I need to expand her space I can. I know on my TiVo HD, there's a way to expand space without even opening the box; supposedly you can plug more space straight into it. Maybe the same might be true on the TiVo Premier.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> But on every single one of her shows, I'm getting the message "Transferring prohibited by the copyright holder", whatever that is.


All digital transport streams have a byte embeded in them known as the CCI byte. The value of this byte determines whether or not compliant devices are allowed to transfer videos that have this byte set to something other than 0.

There is no law requiring any device to be compliant, but in order to obtain CableLabs certification for a device, it must be compliant. The CATV company is not required to allow any user to attach a non-compliant digital receiver to their plant.

Meanwhile, the FCC mandates that all locally broadcast TV stations, when placed on the CATV lineup, must have their CCI byte set to 0. At the CATV company's discretion, they may set the CCI byte of any other regularly scheduled programming to 0x01, if they choose. Pay-per-view and VOD channels can have their CCI bytes set to 0x02 or above.

Some CATV companies, like Time Warner Cable, set all non-OTA channels to 0x02 or above.



timckelley said:


> I wonder, by chance, if I were to get her a cable card if this message would magically go away? Maybe not.


No. TWC chooses not to allow anyone to transfer content from their line-up.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> It does seem odd that I can't transfer the shows, since I think the impression many have when we buy TiVos is that we'll be able to do this.


This cannot be done with any un-hacked DVR.



timckelley said:


> That's a good point. We haven't sold her old TiVo yet, and for now she's still using it, so the space problem isn't here yet, but I assume if I need to expand her space I can. I know on my TiVo HD, there's a way to expand space without even opening the box; supposedly you can plug more space straight into it. Maybe the same might be true on the TiVo Premier.


It is, but the recommended method is to upgrade the internal drive, instead.


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## tomhorsley

I actually use this as a guide to tell myself what shows I want to watch. When it starts to seem like work to catch up on a TV program, I ask myself "Why am I watching it at all then?"


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## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> It is, but the recommended method is to upgrade the internal drive, instead.


If that's true, I'm willing to go that route, as I've done this for S2's and an S1. Hopefully it's not harder to do on a Premier.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

timckelley said:


> If that's true, I'm willing to go that route, as I've done this for S2's and an S1. Hopefully it's not harder to do on a Premier.


just different, not harder.


----------



## dlfl

timckelley said:


> What I don't understand is how it doesn't bother my wife to record everything in Basic Quality. She does that to maximize how many shows she can fit on there, but it's so grainy, I'd hate Basic Quality............. but on the other hand, my wife is slightly poaching on my TiVo right now. But she has nicely chosen a very low quality (probably Basic) for her shows.


Still with the wife problems after 8 years? 

Maybe the solution isn't technical -- have you considered Dr. Phil ?


----------



## DevdogAZ

dlfl said:


> Still with the wife problems after 8 years?
> 
> Maybe the solution isn't technical -- have you considered Dr. Phil ?


If she starts recording Dr. Phil, her hard drive will fill up even faster.


----------



## bikegeek

Am I the only one that reads this thread and thinks that if wife won't delete recordings then delete wife?


----------



## steve614

Now that the wife has her own Tivo...If she is still not deleting shows, then plan on upgrading the HD or adding an external.

When you get to the point that you have to do this (and we all know you will ), I also recommend the internal upgrade to 2TB. Adding an external drive also adds another failure point.
If you have a computer with SATA ports and an optical drive, upgrading the Premiere is not that challenging if you've done upgrades yourself before.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968


----------



## lrhorer

ZeoTiVo said:


> just different, not harder.


Right, and not really very difficult, in any case. Anyone comfortable with opening the case on a PC should have few problems if they follow the instructions.


----------



## lrhorer

bikegeek said:


> Am I the only one that reads this thread and thinks that if wife won't delete recordings then delete wife?


I don't think her not deleting shows is grounds for expulsion. OTOHJ, if she deletes shows when she shouldn't, then it's mandatory.


----------



## timckelley

steve614 said:


> If you have a computer with SATA ports and an optical drive, upgrading the Premiere is not that challenging if you've done upgrades yourself before.


One of my computers has IDE ports, and the other has SATA ports, so that sounds good. If by optical drive, you mean a DVD/CD drive, then yes I have that too. (I'm not too familiar with computer lingo.)

In my past upgrades, it's usually been to replace a failed hard drive, so I was able to get a free image off a fellow TCFer, but in this case, the drive hasn't failed, so maybe I can make my own image, assuming the process for Premiers is analagous to the process for S2s.


----------



## Stuxnet

timckelley said:


> In my past upgrades, it's usually been to replace a failed hard drive....


If you can do that, upgrading a Premiere w/jmfs is cake. If you're even a little unsure watch the two-part video on YouTube that completely steps you through the process... from opening the case to booting up the new drive installation.


----------



## timckelley

ZeoTiVo said:


> 1. come August 1st the FCC will require TWC to allow for self install of cable cards - thus ending the truck roll fee.


A few days ago I was in my local TWC addressing my Internet problems, and brought this up. The lady said she's not aware of this change and they have no plans go stop requiring truck rolls. I told her I didn't think they have a choice in the matter when the FCC makes rulings like this. She agreed and said she figures her department will get notified at some point.

Well it was only 2 weeks from 8-1 when she said this; you'd think they'd've been notified by then. I'll probably be calling soon to ask for a nontruckrolled cable card.


----------



## timckelley

New updates. I sold my house and moved to a smaller one in late August, 2011. I thought it would be a good time to sell one of our TiVos, but my wife kept hinting she wasn't ready to sell it. Her mother got pretty mystified why we need that many TiVos, and it seemed like she was pressuring her to let me sell it. In the end, she put her foot down and said we're keeping all 4 TiVos.  

So in the new house, we've got one in the master bedroom, the family room, the kitchen, and there's a room we call the "blue room" (because the walls are blue). It's really sort of my wife's media room, as that's where her huge collection of tapes and DVDs is.

Well apparently despite this bountiful amount of TiVos, her TiVo Premier is running out of space.  She recently asked me to upgrade it to give her more space. Some of you in this thread recently predicted this would happen. 

After researching, it did seem like (in agreement with what some of you said) that the best solution is the replace the internal drive with a 2 TB drive. I just did that last night in fact.

This morning I told my wife that she now has space to hold 291 hours of HD programming, or 2552 hours of SD programming. I further told her, that if I were she, I'd record everything in HD she can because it looks so much better. Oh by the way, her TiVo Premier is now hooked up the HD TV I had been using with my TiVo HD, and I bought a new 32 " HD TV for my TiVo.

My wife told me she might compromise and record *some* stuff in HD quality, but to be honest, she can't rule out that she'd eventually run out of space if put all in HD (which would limit her to 291 hours), so she intends to continue recording some stuff in lower quality.  

BTW, she's pretty much stayed off my TiVo since we've been in this new house. As well it seems she should, since the allocation is basically

Me: 1 TiVo (dual tuner HD TiVo)
Son: 1/2 TiVo (dual tuner TiVo Premier)
Wife: 2 1/2 TiVos. (2 single tuner S2's, + 1/2 of the upgraded TiVo Premier... well, a lot more than half, since my son will only use a small fraction of the new massive amount of space I put on it)


----------



## bareyb

So... Nothing has changed...


----------



## timckelley

BTW, I used to think people who had 4 TiVos must have gone nuts and/or whacked out in the mind, and here we are among those wierdos. Well, maybe my original opinion is still correct.


----------



## bareyb

timckelley said:


> BTW, I used to think people who had 4 TiVos must have gone nuts and/or whacked out in the mind, and here we are among those wierdos. Well, maybe my original opinion is still correct.


We have three. Well two TiVos and Comcrap box for PPV's. One of these days I'm gonna upgrade both of them to "Elites" with four tuners and hopefully then my kids can have their TiVo and my wife and I can have the other one. Right now my stuff is spread across all three due to conflicts...


----------



## timckelley

bareyb said:


> So... Nothing has changed...


Well, as I noted earlier in the thread, a small amount has. When my wife's TiVo fills up, she will indeed delete recordings, because she's forced into it. She knows if she doesn't, the TiVo will stop recording, which would really bug her.

So she will actually delete recordings, if forced into it.


----------



## bareyb

timckelley said:


> Well, as I noted earlier in the thread, a small amount has. When my wife's TiVo fills up, she will indeed delete recordings, because she's forced into it. She knows if she doesn't, the TiVo will stop recording, which would really bug her.
> 
> So she will actually delete recordings, if forced into it.


Well technically, the TiVo would simply delete the oldest first...

ETA: Oh wait... Never mind. She saves everything "keep until I delete". Forgot that bit.


----------



## terpfan1980

@TimCKelley - how many of your boxes are now Premieres?

With the new software updates to the Premiere you can now "multi room stream" so you could watch content from any one TiVo on the others in the house (that are all Premieres, all with the same updated software) so you wouldn't need to be as concerned about which TiVo where is storing which content.

That said, I'd still advise following the "wife gets her own" rule for as long as she (like my daughter it seems) continues to employ the "keep until I delete" setting.


As to how many Tivo's are too many and such... I've got my own Premiere XL with the stock drive in it, a Premiere with stock drive in it for my master bedroom, shared with my Mrs., a Premiere with stock drive in it in our living room (for everyone to share), a Premiere with stock drive in it for my step-daughter's bedroom, and a Premiere with a 2TB drive in it that will go into my daughter's room eventually but is currently offline while she cleans and makes room in there for it to be setup. (No cable drop there currently, so no way to get the FiOS channels on it yet).

I've also got an HTPC that uses a Ceton card with 4 tuners available to it (that is a bit finnicky, but works well enough that I watch much of the live TV that I would catch on it).

Before we had the option to do the multi-room streaming, I had that many boxes just to make sure we each had a TiVo available to us where we'd want it at. Now that we could stream from any box to any of the others, it's less frustrating and time consuming waiting for content to be copied from one box to the other through the home network.

Once I invested in the boxes though, and had lifetime on them, I pretty much quit worrying about how many I had, as long as no one else was monopolizing space on the boxes that I wanted to have recording my favorite shows, all is good :up:


----------



## donnoh

timckelley said:


> Well, as I noted earlier in the thread, a small amount has. When my wife's TiVo fills up, she will indeed delete recordings, because she's forced into it. She knows if she doesn't, the TiVo will stop recording, which would really bug her.
> 
> So she will actually delete recordings, if forced into it.


You need to get her to clean the house and cook, then she wouldn't have time to watch Tivo!


----------



## dginok

Time to call "Hoarders".........her compulsion to keep all recorded shows forever is the digital equivalent of burying herself in her own house with stuff.


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## bkc56

Interesting to see this thread is still humming along (I posted back in 6/03). My situation is still unchanged: 2 upgraded Tivos, 1 for my wife's stuff, and the other for my stuff and some we both watch. Her's is chronically full, sometimes requiring priority work as it's going to be totally full in a couple days (stop recording). I don't monitor it, so it could actually get full sometimes and I may not notice. Mine is more manageable, but it does still have some old stuff. For example, we still have last year's Superbowl because my wife hasn't gone through it to watch the ads yet.

Still, the system works. I don't stress about it because I'm not going to miss anything due to no disk space.

Getting a second Tivo (the Tivo itself was free, but lifetime cost) was some of the best money I've spent.


----------



## bobster954

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.
> 
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


netflix, season shows...amazon prime tv shows, dvd rentals or buy of entire season, comcast video on demand.
Lastly, if not copyrighted, use a program to pull them to the computer.
Finally, get a second tivo, one for her recordings (that will no longer record as it is out of space) and one for you to watch things.

last thing I can think of is...'yes dear' and go mow the lawn.


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## shwru980r

Upgrade to a larger hard drive.


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## JYoung

Does anyone else cringe every time this thread is bumped?


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## DevdogAZ

JYoung said:


> Does anyone else cringe every time this thread is bumped?


I cringe when people reply to the initial problem expressed in the OP without reading the thread to find out what steps have already been taken.

Oh, and I cringe when the thread pops up, too.  I keep expecting it to be a bump by tim telling us when his wife's episode of Hoarders will air.


----------



## JustAllie

DevdogAZ said:


> I cringe when people reply to the initial problem expressed in the OP without reading the thread to find out what steps have already been taken.




I am still not clear how the situation is substantially different than in the OP. it's just a matter of details and a few technology updates. The OP's wife still hasn't let go of her attachment to recording and saving shows that she will never have time to watch. I won't even attempt to dissect the OP's relationship with his wife and their control over disc space and technology purchases.

Hang on while I cancel my cable contract and unplug my TiVo. I have stuff on this TiVo dated January 2011 that I still haven't watched.


----------



## mattack

JustAllie said:


> I have stuff on this TiVo dated January 2011 that I still haven't watched.


That's all? Heck, I had older stuff than that lost when Tivo drive(s) went bad.. (One S3 drive, as well as the S3 it was in.. don't power on.. The drive went kaput too -- isn't recognized when hooked to a computer, but seems to spin up -- hope to someday try to buy an identical controller card.. and then revive the S3 maybe with a PS... and separate TivoHD drive went into reboot forever loop.)

But going back to the ORIG drive, I finally was getting some old Last Call with Carson Daly episodes from 2007/2008 off (keep musical performances.. semi-hoarding, I intend to some eon make MP3s or AACs out of them to listen to on my iPod/iPhone).

But when the S3/drive was functional, I had things from SEVERAL YEARS before that, and WOULD sometimes eventually get addicted to an old show and catch up. (But alas, I lost at least a full season of Cold Case.. Yes it's in reruns, but (1) those are hacked up, including (2) music changes.)


----------



## aaronwt

timckelley said:


> Well, as I noted earlier in the thread, a small amount has. When my wife's TiVo fills up, she will indeed delete recordings, because she's forced into it. She knows if she doesn't, the TiVo will stop recording, which would really bug her.
> 
> So she will actually delete recordings, if forced into it.


Why not set up a PC with TiVo Desktop. Then you can transfer the recordings and have unlimited storage potential.


----------



## terpfan1980

I do have to wonder what TimCKelley's wife is going to do when/if that overly full TiVo dies or, more specifically, if the drive in it dies and she loses all of that hoarded up programming.

I know there's still content that can't be legally obtained on DVD and/or Blu-ray, or found for legal streaming/download over the internet, but so much content is available that way, and so many channels exist on most cable systems that it seems silly to me to go too crazy on setting up keep until I delete recordings.

I know I'm a fine one to talk with so many TiVos in my home and so much capacity shared among them (not to mention my own HTPC), but I really don't fret over missing shows. Eventually they'll be available or I just won't bother watching them. If I que up too many shows, I figure it's a message to me that I just don't need to watch whatever it was.

Heck, I even bought a couple of larger drives that I intended to put into the TiVo boxes and never bothered upgrading because I didn't want to take the time to do it and didn't feel that pinched for space over the long haul.


----------



## terpfan1980

aaronwt said:


> Why not set up a PC with TiVo Desktop. Then you can transfer the recordings and have unlimited storage potential.


That's a feature that I have taken advantage of a few times. I try not to do that too often, but when I see something go by that I'd really like to save, I admit that I will pull a copy back to the PC and the convert it to iTunes so I can take it with me on my iPad or iPhone later if desired. :up:


----------



## timckelley

aaronwt said:


> Why not set up a PC with TiVo Desktop. Then you can transfer the recordings and have unlimited storage potential.


I think a lot of the stuff she records is copyright protected (not premium channels though, we don't have any premium channels), so she can't move it off the TiVo.

BTW, I'm not sure that she puts everything at KUID anymore like she did years ago. She still might be making prodigious use of it, but maybe she still might have some stuff with expiries. (But I'm not sure.)

Still, even then, when the TiVo fills up, she would still delete stuff, because then the TiVo will choose what to delete among the expiry stuff, and I think she wants to make that decision instead of the box making it.


----------



## duerrs

how about transfer all her shows to a pc and have her transfer them back to the tivo when she is ready to watch.


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## duerrs

whoops, was on page 2 when i typed that.....sorry


----------



## timckelley

BTW, I'm not sure if this transfer to PC thing was even an option when I started this thread. I think HMO came out later.


----------



## DevdogAZ

JustAllie said:


> I am still not clear how the situation is substantially different than in the OP. it's just a matter of details and a few technology updates. The OP's wife still hasn't let go of her attachment to recording and saving shows that she will never have time to watch. I won't even attempt to dissect the OP's relationship with his wife and their control over disc space and technology purchases.
> 
> Hang on while I cancel my cable contract and unplug my TiVo. I have stuff on this TiVo dated January 2011 that I still haven't watched.


Two posts above mine, someone recommended he upgrade to a larger hard drive. This is just a dozen or so posts after tim has explained that he just put a 2 TB hard drive in his wife's TiVo and their family now has 4 TiVos. That poster clearly hadn't read very far into the thread before offering a suggestion. That's all I was getting at.


----------



## timckelley

Hard as it is to believe, my wife is saying she'd like to get a 5th TiVo for the house.  I suggested if it's a space problem, how about I just get extra hard drive space, and she can transfer shows to a computer or something.

I think partly she doesn't like that idea because if how hard she thinks it will be to do the transferring. I don't think it would be that hard. It's been a long time since I've ever done that, but I remember it being fairly simple, and I'm sure I could teach her how to do it.

But she brings up another point. When she's folding clothes (my son's bedroom is where she folds clothes), she'd like to watch TiVo there in my son's room.

Here is where our 4 TiVos are now:

1) TiVo HD in master bedroom, hooked to an HD TV. (This is my TiVo.)

2) TiVo Premier in the family room, hooked to a large sized HD computer monitor.

3) S2 in kitchen hooked to a cheap SD TV.

4) S2 in a spare room that she's calls the "media room", hooked to a cheap SD TV. This is the room where her collection of recordings resides on a bunch of book shelves.

I then suggested moving one of the existing TiVos there, but she says she doesn't like that because
a) She and sometimes my son like to watch TiVo'd programs in the family room.
b) When my son is at school, and my wife is sitting in the kitchen eating lunch, she likes watching a TiVo program in the kitchen
c) She likes having a TiVo in the media room, since it's next to her recordings. Actually I suppose I could probe her on this one. Does she still actively record stuff, and that's why she wants the TiVo next to her collection? Because if she just wants to watch a recording, I'd think she could grab a disc from that room and play it in that room. (You don't need a TiVo for that.) Well, maybe she's still recording stuff. I almost never set foot in that room.

My son's bedroom has a cheap SD TV hooked to a DVD player, but no DVR - this is where she'd like a 5th TiVo. She did say she'd be perfectly happy with an S2, as she somehow doesn't care about HD quality.

Well I suppose in today's day and age, I'd think a used S2 with a lifetime sub could be found on the cheap, since most people want HD quality.


----------



## bareyb

You guys sound like you would be good candidates for the new "TiVo Mini" when and if it ever comes out. It allows you to stream content from your other TiVos without having to have cablecards or additional outlet fees from the CableCo. Supposedly, it's coming out some time this year. Maybe for Christmas?


----------



## timckelley

That's a good suggestion, but you made me realize that even though my wife is happy to record stuff on the SD stations (I'm not though... I record everything in HD), there is no guarantee that Time Warner will keep broadcasting those SD stations.

If Time Warner ever goes to digital only, that means 2 of our TiVos (S2's), plus a 3rd if I succumb and buy her another S2, might become difficult to use. Maybe there's a way I could an S2 to communicate with a digital tuner... I'm not sure.

Your streaming option sounds like a less risky way to go. Yes, she doesn't get more space, but I could add HD space to a computer and show her how to transfer stuff to it.

I wonder if it will have to ability to stream from an S2 though.


----------



## jrtroo

That would be my recommendation also.

However, I would not bother teaching her how to push data to your pc, but instead show her how simple it is to pull the data to the Tivo. 

My wife gets how to do that (she did not even need a walk-through), and enjoys that I can set up folders for her different shows, or per primary watcher, genre, ect. I use pytivo so its reliable and low overhead to the server.


----------



## timckelley

jrtroo said:


> I use pytivo so its reliable and low overhead to the server.


Yes, I don't have pytivo, but I'd like to install it. I don't have server either, but I do have a home network. (Router with a bunch of devices connected to it.) PyTivo doesn't require an actual server, does it? Though I think it would be nice if we had a server - I don't know how to set up one though.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Definitely sounds like you need some kind of media distribution system rather than another TiVo. That way, it won't matter what TiVo you record something on, or what TV you're trying to watch it on. Everything will be available on every TV (if you set it up that way). If SD is acceptable (to her), then I recommend BOCS. Looks like they currently have a sale going on, too, so it may be a great time to get it.


----------



## jrtroo

pyTivo does not need a server, I actually have it on a PC that I use for ripping/editing and on my server for longer term items (where I use subfolders and the like).

I use WHS, which is awesome and easy enough to set up for anyone who has installed windows. Too bad they are no longer updating it, however. I love the stupid-proof automatic backups of each and every PC in the house.


----------



## timckelley

DevdogAZ said:


> Definitely sounds like you need some kind of media distribution system rather than another TiVo. That way, it won't matter what TiVo you record something on, or what TV you're trying to watch it on. Everything will be available on every TV (if you set it up that way). If SD is acceptable (to her), then I recommend BOCS. Looks like they currently have a sale going on, too, so it may be a great time to get it.


That technology sounds pretty nifty. Do you know if when they inject the TiVo signal into the house cable, if it interferes any with the existing signal? When you watch a program on a BOCS channel, do you think it looks as clear as if I didn't even have BOCS installed?

I suppose one good thing is that at least our two digital TiVos and HD TVs shouldn't (I assume) be affected, since with digital, the bits are just 1's and 0's, so a weak 1 is still a 1.

The other thing is is sounds like I have to install the super combiner in front of the house's main splitter. I don't know where that's located, but maybe I can figure it out. I have a feeling it might be outside, so hopefully the super combiner is weather proof. Also, I wonder if I'd by breaking any Time Warner rules by installing something in front of Time Warner's main house splitter.

Since the set up uses RCA cables, it sounds like it's really meant for S1's and S2, and not any HD signals. But that's okay, because my wife is happy her S2's, and distributing her two S2's would probably work for her. Plus, I think I could even distributer her TiVo Premier, though if she tries to watch it outside the family room, it'll just be using the RCA cables, so it'll be SD quality. But I don't think she'll mind, plus my son's TV is just an SD TV anyhow.


----------



## unitron

jrtroo said:


> pyTivo does not need a server, I actually have it on a PC that I use for ripping/editing and on my server for longer term items (where I use subfolders and the like).
> 
> I use WHS, which is awesome and easy enough to set up for anyone who has installed windows. Too bad they are no longer updating it, however. I love the stupid-proof automatic backups of each and every PC in the house.


Perhaps you should specify exactly what you mean by "server" in this context, since I'm not sure pyTiVo could run without being on that, or "a", computer.

Unless you know how to get it to run on a flashed router or some kind of NAS box. That would be cool.


----------



## bareyb

PyTiVo is awesome for storing large amounts of Video on your Computer and pulling them to your TiVo when you want to watch them. Setting up PyTiVo can be a little tricky for the uninitiated, but I set up a really easy Tutorial on how to install it if you ever get the urge. 

I have it on my laptop and use as needed. One day I do plan to set up a server but honestly, the way it is now suits my needs pretty well. 

Here's a direct link with step by step instructions. It's Mac Centric but I've heard it works fine for PC's too: Installing PyTivo on the Mac for Beginners


----------



## jrtroo

unitron said:


> Perhaps you should specify exactly what you mean by "server" in this context, since I'm not sure pyTiVo could run without being on that, or "a", computer.
> 
> Unless you know how to get it to run on a flashed router or some kind of NAS box. That would be cool.


I did note that my server is WHS (though I certainly could have connected the dots together better).

I use pytivo on WHS (Windows Home Server) - basically a older PC that I loaded the WHS software on and connected a bunch of drives. For the record, I use v1 due to its unique treatment for pooled drives.

I believe that pytivo can run on several different NAS products, whs is just the one I have. Searching here should uncover several.


----------



## mattack

timckelley said:


> If Time Warner ever goes to digital only, that means 2 of our TiVos (S2's), plus a 3rd if I succumb and buy her another S2, might become difficult to use. Maybe there's a way I could an S2 to communicate with a digital tuner... I'm not sure.


Supposedly Tivos will control the DTAs (think "cheap cable boxes") that cable companies gave/give out when they got rid of (most) analog channels.



timckelley said:


> Yes, I don't have pytivo, but I'd like to install it. I don't have server either, but I do have a home network. (Router with a bunch of devices connected to it.) PyTivo doesn't require an actual server, does it? Though I think it would be nice if we had a server - I don't know how to set up one though.


pyTivo *is* the server.. But at least I seem to remember it "just works". I never was able to get Galleon to do anything useful.. but pyTivo was basically run it, set the path (I set it to the same path that kmttg downloads to), and it "just works".. (I had ONE tiny problem yesterday, but that seemed to be due to me monkeying with my router.)


----------



## timckelley

My wife resisted the idea of pyTiVo at first, because she thought it would be complicated, but when I assured her it wasn't (which I assume it's not, but I guess I'll find out  ), and also told her I can buy another hard drive for one of our computers if there's not enough space for videos, she signed on to the idea.

Apparently what she wants to do is take all the animated stuff that's currently scattered among her 3 TiVos and move/consolidate them to one place. In her mind, it was going to be on a 4th TiVo, but now she's agreed to store them on a computer with pyTiVo installed in lieu of a 4th TiVo.

As for seeing videos in my son's room, using the BOCS technology mentioned about sounds acceptable to her. I see you can connect up to 3 devices, and I suggested connecting all 3 of her TiVos, but she doesn't want the 3 TiVos in one room, so she just wants one TiVo hooked up to it.

On a somewhat unrelated matter, she also wants a new room added to our house, which will probably be expensive... we haven't really started the ball rolling on that yet, nor do I know the actual price, though we have talked to some contractors about it. But anyway, she says once we have more room, she'll agree to having all 3 of her TiVos together hooked to the BOCS box. I guess she thinks the house would look too crowded right now if I try to put the 3 TiVos together. Not sure I agree though... TiVos aren't that big. In fact, I have in the family room a sort of tall wooden cabinet with lots of shelves, which I think could house 3 TiVos, but I didn't get into that with her, as she's happy for the time being with distributing just one TiVo. That's fine with me, because personally I just watch my own single TiVo in the master bedroom and that's it. My one TiVo holds enough space for all my shows. Once in a while I come close to tapping out all the space on it, but when that happens, I watch some shows, or if necessary, delete unimportant ones. Also, sometimes if I find my SPs fill up NP faster than I can watch them, I reevaluate my SP list, and maybe cancel the one I least care about.


----------



## murgatroyd

My only concern about putting three TiVos in the same space is this: how are you going to handle conflicts with the remote?

I have three TiVos in one place, but one is a Sony (different remote codes).


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## jrtroo

pytivo will not be complicated from the UI. It will give you a folder at the bottom of the to do list that lets you pull content from a PC. I have three set up: Server Movies, Server TV, and My PC. Each has subfolders for each family member for their own content. Operationally its just like pulling a show from another TiVo.


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## timckelley

Right now, all four of our TiVos use remote codes 1-4, so there are no conflicts. But you bring up a good question, because with BOCS technology, you use the BOCS remote to control the TiVos. I hope that remote has the ability to use remote codes like the TiVo remote does, but I should confirm that before buying any equipment.


----------



## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> My wife resisted the idea of pyTiVo at first, because she thought it would be complicated, but when I assured her it wasn't (which I assume it's not, but I guess I'll find out  )


From the perspective of a TiVo user, it is perfectly seamless. As jtroo mentioned, each video share (you can create as many as you like) appears at the very bottom of the Now Playing List, exactly like and just below the Deleted Items folder. How you organize those shares is entirely up to you. You can dump all the videos on the server into a single share, with or without subdirectorties, or you can create one share for kid's stuff, another for your wife, another for you personally, and one for everyone. If you want to get fancy (for you, still dead simple for her), you can even create one main share and then create shortcuts / symlinks in multiple folders. For example, you might have a main folder with the movie Get Smart. You can create a share pointing to this main folder, or not, as you see fit. In addition, however, you can also create folders named "Comedy", "Romance", "Espionage", and "Action". Then you can create 4 shares with the same respective names pointing to each respective folder. In each folder, then, you can create shortcuts / symlinks to the main file and its metafile. This way, it doesn't take up any significant amount of extra space on the hard drive, yet Get Smart appears in all four folders in the TiVo NPL. Meanwhile, doing the same sort of thing for the movie Where Eagles Dare will have it showing up in "Espionage" and "Action" (plus "War", if you like), but not "Comedy" or "Romance".

Note these also do not have to be separate shares, if you don't want them to be. They can just be sub-directories of a share. 'Very flexible.

If you *REALLY* want to get fancy, take a look at vidmgr. I was going to provide a screen shot, but my website seems to be down.



timckelley said:


> Apparently what she wants to do is take all the animated stuff that's currently scattered among her 3 TiVos and move/consolidate them to one place. In her mind, it was going to be on a 4th TiVo, but now she's agreed to store them on a computer with pyTiVo installed in lieu of a 4th TiVo.


Absolutely. Don't forget a good backup solution.



timckelley said:


> As for seeing videos in my son's room, using the BOCS technology mentioned about sounds acceptable to her. I see you can connect up to 3 devices, and I suggested connecting all 3 of her TiVos, but she doesn't want the 3 TiVos in one room, so she just wants one TiVo hooked up to it.


Is this for a 4th room? If so, where is it in relation to the other TiVos?



timckelley said:


> But anyway, she says once we have more room, she'll agree to having all 3 of her TiVos together hooked to the BOCS box.


Why? I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish.



timckelley said:


> My one TiVo holds enough space for all my shows. Once in a while I come close to tapping out all the space on it, but when that happens, I watch some shows, or if necessary, delete unimportant ones. Also, sometimes if I find my SPs fill up NP faster than I can watch them, I reevaluate my SP list, and maybe cancel the one I least care about.


Unless the hard drive is too small (in which case I suggest a hard drive upgrade - or even if not) there is really no point in doing this.


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## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> Is this for a 4th room? If so, where is it in relation to the other TiVos?


Yes, my TiVo is in the master bedroom, and her 3 TiVos are in the family room, kitchen, and another spare room we have. She'd like to be able to watch her NP from my son's bedroom... currently that room has a TV, but no DVR in it.



lrhorer said:


> Why? I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish.


It's probably no big deal, but I was just thinking that if all three of her TiVos were hooked to the BOCS box (which coincidentally has the ability to handle up to 3 input devices), then she could watch anything from the NP menu of any TiVo, from any TV in the house. Admittedly, it's probably more flexibility than she currently cares about. Plus there's always HMO that lets you move shows from TiVo to TiVo anyhow. OTOH, it seems like most of the stuff on her TiVo Premier can't be moved because of some copyright protection thing on it (Time Warner has flagged most of her content as un-HMO-able.)


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> Yes, my TiVo is in the master bedroom, and her 3 TiVos are in the family room, kitchen, and another spare room we have. She'd like to be able to watch her NP from my son's bedroom... currently that room has a TV, but no DVR in it.


OK, but where is it? If it is basically behind the wall where one of the TiVos sits, you might be able to simply run a cable from a secondary output of the TiVo "over the wall", as it were, to the other TV.



timckelley said:


> It's probably no big deal, but I was just thinking that if all three of her TiVos were hooked to the BOCS box (which coincidentally has the ability to handle up to 3 input devices), then she could watch anything from the NP menu of any TiVo, from any TV in the house.


'Not all that much point in that, if you have everything you might ordinarily wish to share on the pyTivo server. In any case, it would be a cumbersome setup.



timckelley said:


> Admittedly, it's probably more flexibility than she currently cares about. Plus there's always HMO that lets you move shows from TiVo to TiVo anyhow. OTOH, it seems like most of the stuff on her TiVo Premier can't be moved because of some copyright protection thing on it (Time Warner has flagged most of her content as un-HMO-able.)


No, which is why a Premier tends to be a poor choice if you are on a CATV system like Time Warner. They flag everything except the locals, which cannot be flagged by law. Are the other three TiVos S3 class machines? If so, then there is a solution for those units.


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## timckelley

No on the other side of that wall is a hallway and the closest other TiVo is on the far wall of a room on that hallway.

Her 3 TiVos are a premier and 2 S2s. I suppose I might consider trading my TiVo HD with her premier but it would probably be a hassle to switch the NP and SPs.

So for her to start watching shows in that room, pyTiVo isn't going to do it without a TiVo in there. That's why I'm considering BOCS.


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## jrtroo

Are you aware of the mini that is supposed to be coming out this fall? Combined with a 4/4XL, it could dramatically simplify your set up. 

It could make the most sense for you to wait on this, but set up pytivo in the meantime. Since you have TWC, copying is a limited option while streaming opens things up.


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## timckelley

Do I understand correctly that a mini won't work with S2's, let alone a premier? Though I suppose if it at least worked with a premier, that may be good enough for my wife. You're right that sounds simpler to set up.


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## jrtroo

We are waiting to hear the specifics, but we know it should work with a premiere, but perhaps with a limited feature set initially. It could work to stream, but would not be able to borrow a tuner from the two tuner box. That is an unknown detail.

We also don't know the cost. I think many with set ups similar to yours would be looking to sell their old boxes and get a p4 with the minis. That is what I'm waiting to see from a functionality and pricing perspective.


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## timckelley

Well than I'm definitely keeping this in mind. I don't feel like replacing my wife's S2's, because she keeps tell me up and down how satisfied and happy she is with her S2's, and replacing them isn't cheap (especially since they're lifetimed).

But if she can stream from her Premier, that may solve her problem, and the setup sounds so much simpler with a mini vs a BOCS. By streaming from just one of her TiVos, at least she has something to watch while she folds clothes. So it sounds like I could just buy the mini, but no additional TiVo boxes if I wish.

I'd be interested in find out the price of this mini though - I hope it's not too expensive.

Also by installing pyTiVo, she can still move things from there to the Premier if she wants, and from there stream it to the clothes folding room. I wonder when they're going to announce the price tag of this mini.

Actually I wonder if my TiVoHD could also be streamed to a mini. Not that part matters or would be a deal breaker or anything.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> Well than I'm definitely keeping this in mind. I don't feel like replacing my wife's S2's, because she keeps tell me up and down how satisfied and happy she is with her S2's, and replacing them isn't cheap (especially since they're lifetimed).


Will that still be true when Time Warner shuts off their analog channels? On a related note, you do realize the BOCS only supports SD video, right? 'Not an issue with the S2s, but with an S3 or S4, it is.



timckelley said:


> But if she can stream from her Premier, that may solve her problem, and the setup sounds so much simpler with a mini vs a BOCS. By streaming from just one of her TiVos, at least she has something to watch while she folds clothes. So it sounds like I could just buy the mini, but no additional TiVo boxes if I wish.


Well, perhaps, but since that egg hasn't hatched, yet, I would not make any firm plans based upon the chicken.



timckelley said:


> Also by installing pyTiVo, she can still move things from there to the Premier if she wants, and from there stream it to the clothes folding room.


That's an assumption, and it may be an unfounded one. Given the way the S3 and S4 handle online content, there's a fair chance you might not. I would says the odds are good this will be possible, but not overwhelming. OTOH, the point may be moot. The mini might be able to download video directly from the server. In fact, I suspect this is even more likely than the clumsier method of pushing first to the S4. If YouTube / Hulu / Amazon works, then a push to the mini should, as well.



timckelley said:


> Actually I wonder if my TiVoHD could also be streamed to a mini. Not that part matters or would be a deal breaker or anything.


No. Streaming is only available on the S4. Whether MRV would work or not, I don't know, but I suspect not.


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## timckelley

I guess you're calling a Premier an S4 (I didn't know they were the same). I read on the BOCS that the video has to go through the red/white/yellow RCA cables. I guess I assumed that there were ports on the back of our premier for these, and that the sort of signal that goes through there is SD only (i.e. an SD version of the HD recordings), but I realize that assumption could be way off. If there is no analog output available from a TiVo Premier, then yes you're right; BOCS won't work with it. (Right now, I'm using the HDMI output to my HD monitor.) But it would still work with her two S2s, which is enough to satisfy her.

But you bring up a good point, that if Time Warner ever does away with the analog channels, and my wife starts having to depend on digital TiVos, that throws BOCS out the window, whereas TiVo mini has more future in it.

I wonder though... Even if Time Warner does away with analog, maybe there's a way to get a digital tuner that modulates the signal onto analog, so that S2's could still work, provided S2's have a way to control this digital tuner. If that is so, then her S2's, and BOCS all would have a future in the post-analog world.


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## jrtroo

Comcast provided 2 free DTAs when they eliminated analog. That basically is the cable equivalent to the $40 over the air government boxes from several years ago.

It also makes the S2 boxs a single tuner tivo. 

Premieres are "series 4"- completely synonymous. But a P4 is a premiere with 4 tuners.


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## timckelley

My wife's S2's are single tuner models, so this is okay. Her premier is a two tuner model.


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## timckelley

I just looked at our two computers, and mine currently has less then 35 GB free (out of a 103 GB drive) and hers has a combined 110 GB free (she has two HD totalling about 175 GB). She's thinking of moving about 200 hours of shows over to pyTiVo.

If I'm not mistaken, I think that warrants me getting more HD space. In fact, something I've always wanted to to, but never knew how to do, is to install a network file storage device. I was just googling, and found several articles about how to convert an old computer into such a device. (Example is this one)

My wife's computer is the oldest computer in the house (still has Windows XP on it), so I came up with an idea of maybe buying her a new computer, and converting her old one to a file server, and beefing up it's HD storage. I could put it right next to mine in the study, where the router is. (Her computer is in a different room). For $18, I could buy a KVM switch so that my single monitor, mouse, and keyboard could be used for both boxes.

Maybe I could find a way to even attach our laser printer to it, so that my computer doesn't always have to be left on. (I have the printer shared so she can use it, but it requires my computer be on all the time.) Of course the file server will have to be left on.

Oh well, these are my latest ideas on how to beef up our computer equipment.


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## unitron

timckelley said:


> I just looked at our two computers, and mine currently has less then 35 GB free (out of a 103 GB drive) and hers has a combined 110 GB free (she has two HD totalling about 175 GB). She's thinking of moving about 200 hours of shows over to pyTiVo.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, I think that warrants me getting more HD space. In fact, something I've always wanted to to, but never knew how to do, is to install a network file storage device. I was just googling, and found several articles about how to convert an old computer into such a device. (Example is this one)
> 
> My wife's computer is the oldest computer in the house (still has Windows XP on it), so I came up with an idea of maybe buying her a new computer, and converting her old one to a file server, and beefing up it's HD storage. I could put it right next to mine in the study, where the router is. (Her computer is in a different room). For $18, I could buy a KVM switch so that my single monitor, mouse, and keyboard could be used for both boxes.
> 
> Maybe I could find a way to even attach our laser printer to it, so that my computer doesn't always have to be left on. (I have the printer shared so she can use it, but it requires my computer be on all the time.) Of course the file server will have to be left on.
> 
> Oh well, these are my latest ideas on how to beef up our computer equipment.


For what you have in mind you could probably get her a new machine and leave XP on her old one, at least for now, and run the free version of TiVo Desktop on it.

Relocate it's My TiVo Recordings folder from the C: drive where Desktop installs intself to an NTFS partition somewhere and either make it big and create subfolders to sort shows into, or make it smaller but have one or more big drives, each of which is just one big NT partition, and create shortcuts to it/them inside the MTR folder.

All of that will show up at the bottom of your Now Playing Lists, under the computer's name.

I just discovered that since my old Buffalo LS-500GL LinkStation Pro assigns itself a drive letter, or at least the NASNavigator software does, that I can put a shorcut to it in the MTR Folder and see that and access videos with TiVos as well.


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## lrhorer

jrtroo said:


> Comcast provided 2 free DTAs when they eliminated analog. That basically is the cable equivalent to the $40 over the air government boxes from several years ago.





timckelley said:


> My wife's S2's are single tuner models, so this is okay. Her premier is a two tuner model.


Whether TWC provides DTAs or STBs, there still is the compatibility issue. It cannot be guaranteed at this juncture the S2 will work with whatever device TWC provides, and upgrades for S2 models are not terribly likely at this point.

Also, that's not the only issue. A lot of women tend to dislike additional boxes and cables in their house.


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## timckelley

TiVo mini is an extra box. Still your comment about the lack of guarantee for future compatibility between Time Warned and S2's is a good argument for TiVo mini. I'm inclined to wait until they release more info on it before deciding.


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## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> Also, that's not the only issue. A lot of women tend to dislike additional boxes and cables in their house.


When my MIL sees a bunch of cabling behind AV equipment, she thinks it's a fire hazard.


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## lrhorer

unitron said:


> For what you have in mind you could probably get her a new machine and leave XP on her old one, at least for now, and run the free version of TiVo Desktop on it.


I strongly advise against that. It's a recipe for frustration. His proposed solution is a much, much better one. Personally, what I would propose (and use myself) is a Linux based box, but BSD is certainly workable.



unitron said:


> Relocate it's My TiVo Recordings folder from the C: drive where Desktop installs intself to an NTFS partition somewhere and either make it big and create subfolders to sort shows into, or make it smaller but have one or more big drives, each of which is just one big NT partition, and create shortcuts to it/them inside the MTR folder.


That's rather kludgy. First of all, even if one for some unfathomable reason decides to build a Windows server, a RAID solution is a better choice for the storage media. Secondly, Linux (or BSD in his proposal) is a much better choice for a server. Windows XP is not designed to be a server, and it does not make a good one. It is slow, kludgy, and unstable. Most server applications for Windows are expensive and often hard to manage. Attempting to run a windows workstation headlessly is problematical, and in order to accomplish much, someone is going to have to log in to the windows machine.



unitron said:


> I just discovered that since my old Buffalo LS-500GL LinkStation Pro assigns itself a drive letter, or at least the NASNavigator software does, that I can put a shorcut to it in the MTR Folder and see that and access videos with TiVos as well.


I'm not sure how assigning a drive letter is relevant. (For what does MTR stand?)


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> When my MIL sees a bunch of cabling behind AV equipment, she thinks it's a fire hazard.


Yeah, I know what you mean. My sister is worried she'll get shocked by an AA battery.


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## timckelley

I'm kind of ashamed to disclose this, but just yesterday I learned that last month my wife spent over $200 buying DVDs for seasons she was losing from her TiVos because she's running out of space.     I can't believe she's filled up that much space.

I was also fairly annoyed at those purchases. I told her that she should have told me before doing that, and I would have solved her space problem. She told me that she did tell me she was running out of space. I told her that had she told me she was about to spend money buying DVDs to replace lost shows, I would have expedited her space problem. 

Yes, part of her request for a new TiVo in my son's bedroom wasn't only so she could watch shows in there.... it was also to provide extra NP space. Well, hopefully pyTiVo will solve that problem.

Today I did buy a new computer to replace her old one, but I haven't hooked it up yet, nor converted her old one to a file server, but I hope to do that soon.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> TiVo mini is an extra box.


So is a NAS or a Video Server, for that matter, but the difference in this case is the NAS or Video server can sit out of the way (and out of view) in a closet somewhere.



timckelley said:


> Still your comment about the lack of guarantee for future compatibility between Time Warned and S2's is a good argument for TiVo mini. I'm inclined to wait until they release more info on it before deciding.


I think that is a good idea. In the mean time, you might take a look at this thread. It's nothing like a compendium on how to build a Linux based server, but it might give you a notion of what is involved, especially if you ask questions.

Note I have assisted several people with setting up a Linux server, and every one of them have expressed pleasure at the results.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> I'm kind of ashamed to disclose this, but just yesterday I learned that last month my wife spent over $200 buying DVDs for seasons she was losing from her TiVos because she's running out of space.     I can't believe she's filled up that much space.


Oh, I certainly can. The thing that is hard to believe is spending $200 on DVDs, rather than a hard drive. $200 can purchase a 4T hard drive these days. That's the equivalent of more than 450 DVDs.



timckelley said:


> Yes, part of her request for a new TiVo in my son's bedroom wasn't only so she could watch shows in there.... it was also to provide extra NP space. Well, hopefully pyTiVo will solve that problem.


It can under certain circumstances. First of all, anything on the S2's can be pulled right off to a server running pyTivo. A 4T hard drive will hold easily 4000 SD TV series episodes. Anything on the locally broadcast channels can also be pulled off the THD or Premier. If you choose to modify the THD, then anything from any channel can be pulled off it.


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## terpfan1980

timckelley said:


> I'm kind of ashamed to disclose this, but just yesterday I learned that last month my wife spent over $200 buying DVDs for seasons she was losing from her TiVos because she's running out of space.     I can't believe she's filled up that much space.
> 
> I was also fairly annoyed at those purchases. I told her that she should have told me before doing that, and I would have solved her space problem. She told me that she did tell me she was running out of space. I told her than had she told me she was about to spend money buying DVDs to replace lost shows, I would have expedited her space problem.
> 
> Yes, part of her request for a new TiVo in my son's bedroom wasn't only so she could watch shows in there.... it was also to provide extra NP space. Well, hopefully pyTiVo will solve that problem.
> 
> Today I did buy a new computer to replace her old one, but I haven't hooked it up yet, nor converted her old on to a file server, but I hope to do that soon.


If she's never deleting stuff because she's never getting around to watching it, and then she later goes back and buy's DVDs of it because she can't stand the thought of not getting to see it (but never does go back and watch those DVDs) then nothing will fix the situation until she gives up on hoarding shows.

The real solution is likely to be get her a subscription to Hulu+ or Amazon Prime or Netflix (or a combination of all of the above) so she can cease buying DVDs and stop trying to hoard up episodes of programming on a never ending supply of TiVos (or hard-drives that are filled with recordings from same).


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## timckelley

After a lot of help from people over on the HMO subforum, I've got pyTiVo running and working. I noticed my wife has 827 shows, if I'm reading the software correctly, stored on her TiVo Premier. I think a lot of them are in (gasp) Basic Quality.   (I couldn't stomach that quality on my TiVo.) She even has an HD monitor hooked to her premier with basic quality content! Even though it has an expanded hard drive I installed myself, she still felt compelled to record in Basic to maximize how much stuff she can fit on it.

Now that I've got pyTiVo running, I did yesterday finally order an NAS from Amazon, along with two 3 terrabyte hard drives, which I'll probably treat as a RAID array for protection. This should seriously boost my wife's ability to save shows. She also does seem to enjoy the feature of pyTivo where you can name "shares", which are like folders to hold categories of shows in.

For now, I've set up pyTiVo to archive to a spare 74.5 GB hard drive that's sitting empty on a spare computer, and I also have another one that size that's online on our network she can overflow to if needed, but that's just to get her by until our multi-terrabytes of storage arrives from Amazon. (Well her laptop also has a 500 GB drive on it as well.)

I'd think that for now though, she can temporarily manage her shows, recording new ones, without deleting old ones. This better put a stop to her DVD buying habit. (I don't know how many she's actually been buying, because I haven't closely scrutinized our credit card statements.) When I told her about the amount of space we're getting, I suggested maybe she can feel comfortable recording in a higher quality of resolution, and she said maybe she can.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> When I told her about the amount of space we're getting, I suggested maybe she can feel comfortable recording in a higher quality of resolution, and she said maybe she can.


ROFLMAO!!!


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## timckelley

Well, she's filled up our spare 74.5 GB hard drive and has filled up part of our other drive that size, but just in time to the rescue: Yesterday my new Sonology NAS from Amazon arrived, along with two 3TB Western Digital HDs I ordered.

Last night I hooked everything up, and the NAS is now online. For now I've created a T: drive to point to our new abundant space.

I know I've been advised to install pyTiVo directly onto the NAS, which I can look into; I just hope it won't be too complicated for me to figure out.

But for now, I could probably continue to run pyTiVo on our XP machine, and have it store videos on the NAS. I notice it made me password protect the NAS, so what I don't know yet is, when pyTiVo tries to move a video onto it, will it have trouble doing so because of the password protection?

Hopefully tonight I can test that out and see how it works. I was kind of surprised at how little this NAS's footprint is. I was expecting to put it on the floor, but instead I just put it on my desk right next to the router.

The funny thing is, my surge protector with 12 outlets now has 11 of them in use thanks to the NAS. I hope I don't have to add too my more devices to my study. (I was using 9 before, but the NAS needs one, and since my router ran out of ports, I moved my Netgear switch/hub over to my desk so that I could have more ports.)


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> Well, she's filled up our spare 74.5 GB hard drive and has filled up part of our other drive that size, but just in time to the rescue: Yesterday my new Sonology NAS from Amazon arrived, along with two 3TB Western Digital HDs I ordered.


And again I say, "Data always expands to fill all available hard drive space." 



timckelley said:


> Last night I hooked everything up, and the NAS is now online. For now I've created a T: drive to point to our new abundant space.


Actually, I would say probably forever. Even if all the services are moved to the NAS, you will almost certainly still want to access the NAS as an ordinary file server from workstations within the house.



timckelley said:


> I know I've been advised to install pyTiVo directly onto the NAS, which I can look into; I just hope it won't be too complicated for me to figure out.


If the OS is anything like the one on its bigger brothers, then not too much so. I definitely request you move the discussion over to the Linux thread whihc is stickied over on the Home Media forum.



timckelley said:


> But for now, I could probably continue to run pyTiVo on our XP machine, and have it store videos on the NAS. I notice it made me password protect the NAS, so what I don't know yet is, when pyTiVo tries to move a video onto it, will it have trouble doing so because of the password protection?


That is a function of Windows. As long as the network share is mapped and pyTivo is run with sufficient permissions, it will be able to read and write the share. If you run kmttg, then you probably always want to run it from a Windows machine, even though it can write directly to the network share. The NAS is not really designed to harbor a desktop environment.


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## Polcamilla

Has she at least tossed out those Liberty's Kids and Between the Lions VHS tapes??


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## timckelley

Polcamilla said:


> Has she at least tossed out those Liberty's Kids and Between the Lions VHS tapes??


She probably has. When we moved to a new house last year, she went through and kept her most important VHS tapes and got rid of the rest. She probably kept all her DVDs though, because they don't take as much space.

By the way, as we speak, our new NAS is in the process of receiving 23 episodes of Southpark from one of her TiVos. The new hardware is working nicely, and it was remarkably easy to set up, despite my lack of networking/server knowledge.


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## lrhorer

At that rate, it might fill up pretty fast. See my response above. 

In the mean time, if you have Premieres or hacked S3 TiVos, kmttg can delete the original content after it is transferred, if you like. At first I suspect you want to get comfortable with the setup and make sure it is reliable enough for you. I believe you have already run into the situation where a show did not transfer completely, so if it is of concern to you, you might stay on top of the transfers a bit so you can undelete any partial transfers on the TiVo, but at some point you might consider implementing such a facility.

At some point you might also consider ripping some or all of those DVDs to the NAS, depending on how many you have. Once again I refer you to my response above, though.


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## timckelley

She actually still has a giant heap-load of general hospital eps, but she's not transferring them because she keeps telling herself she's going to catch up on it. Plus it's a never ending, always new releasing show so it's not the kind of show that could be put off long term like South Park can.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> She actually still has a giant heap-load of general hospital eps, but she's not transferring them because she keeps telling herself she's going to catch up on it. Plus it's a never ending, always new releasing show


You're kidding, right? A soap opera? That same girl has been pregnant with that same priest's baby for 27 years!!!


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## unitron

lrhorer said:


> You're kidding, right? A soap opera? That same girl has been pregnant with that same priest's baby for 27 years!!!


At least those years pass.

About 2 or 3 seasons into The Nanny, she mentions to a friend having fallen a few years behind on reading Apartment 3G, and the friend says "Well, it's later that same day..."


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## timckelley

The copyprotected shows on her TiVo Premier are supremely annoying her; she'd really like to transfer them to our NAS. She has a long list of such shows. She complained that I should have bought an S2 for her third TiVo and not a TiVo Premier. I told her that I got the Premier because it's more future thinking. I told her for one thing that Premier is hooked to an HD monitor, but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)

Also I told her that Time Warner has been one by one eliminating our analog channels. Later this month, there are 6 or 7 of them that are about to disappear. When we go all digital, she might be happy to have the Premier. (OTOH, maybe when that happens, the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.)

Anyway, my wife thought of a great idea. She could use the Premier to record local networks, and her two S2's for everything else. But that will be a lopsided arrangement (because she records an awful lot of stuff not on local networks), so to compensate, she can HMO a bunch of stuff from her S2s over to the Premier soon after they hit Now Playing, to balance out the hard disk demand. She told me that she's noticed that if she records on a nonnetwork chanel on an S2, then moves it to the Premier, it still remains uncopyprotected, so this strategy of hers sounds doable.

I did suggest another idea: that I trade my TiVo HD with her Premier (since I don't care about copy protection. I always watch then delete my shows anyhow.) Then, somehow hack the TiVo HD to defeat the copy protection. But I made this suggestion unseriously, because from what little I've read on this topic, such a hack sounds complicated, and there's a good chance my skills aren't enough to accomplish it.


----------



## shwru980r

timckelley said:


> the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.


The shows on the S2 would wouldn't use as much disk space when copying them to the NAS. I don't mind an S2 on a small TV and it's OK sometimes on a large TV depending on the program.


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## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> The copyprotected shows on her TiVo Premier are supremely annoying her; she'd really like to transfer them to our NAS.


That's one reason I don;t recommend a Premiere, among many others.



timckelley said:


> She complained that I should have bought an S2 for her third TiVo and not a TiVo Premier. I told her that I got the Premier because it's more future thinking.


There is no question that the S2 is a dead horse. It just hasn't been buried, yet. At this point I would say the Premiere is backward looking, though.



timckelley said:


> I told her for one thing that Premier is hooked to an HD monitor, but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)


Agreed. I cannot watch most SD material. It's nauseous making.



timckelley said:


> When we go all digital, she might be happy to have the Premier. (OTOH, maybe when that happens, the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.)


I doubt it. Certainly, I spent many years using an S1 TiVo with a series of different leased STBs, but the setup was hardly reliable. Time Warner had a habit of randomly rebooting the STBs, usually around 04:00, which would cause me to lose several days' worth of recordings. Even without that, however, I was supremely jealous of my sister's DirecTiVo, which had two tuners. Giving up one tuner in a box would be a pretty hard thing to take.



timckelley said:


> a lopsided arrangement (because she records an awful lot of stuff not on local networks), so to compensate, she can HMO a bunch of stuff from her S2s over to the Premier soon after they hit Now Playing, to balance out the hard disk demand.


Why not just set up auto-transfer profiles in kmttg to transfer to the NAS?



timckelley said:


> She told me that she's noticed that if she records on a nonnetwork chanel on an S2, then moves it to the Premier, it still remains uncopyprotected, so this strategy of hers sounds doable.


Yes, but copying to the NAS is really a better idea.



timckelley said:


> Then, somehow hack the TiVo HD to defeat the copy protection. But I made this suggestion unseriously, because from what little I've read on this topic, such a hack sounds complicated, and there's a good chance my skills aren't enough to accomplish it.


Not really. Once the PROM is replaced, it only takes a few minutes. See the other forum, and look for the link in my signature.


----------



## lrhorer

shwru980r said:


> The shows on the S2 would wouldn't use as much disk space when copying them to the NAS.


A lot more than an SD copy from his THD or Premiere.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> A lot more than an SD copy from his THD or Premiere.


Analog cable recorded on S2s results in smaller files on the computer than the same analog cable recorded on an S3.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> Analog cable recorded on S2s results in smaller files on the computer than the same analog cable recorded on an S3.


True, but we aren't talking about analog broadcasts. As he mentioned, the analog channels are going away. We are talking about digital SD from a Premiere or THD vs digital SD converted to analog by a DTA or STB and then fed to the S2. Digital SD will be about 1.5G / hour. I don't have an S2 for actual comparison, but I suspect the S1's compression was about the same as the S2, and my old S1 recordings run close to 2.7G / hour. Of course, one has some control over the S2 coding rate, so if one is amenable to making the video even worse, recording in "basic" quality will result in less space utilization.


----------



## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> Not really. Once the PROM is replaced, it only takes a few minutes. See the other forum, and look for the link in my signature.


I think I'll follow up on that, because I have a coworker who is also highly mad at her copy protected shows. She has multiple TiVos and also an iPad that she'd like to move videos to.

She's been hoping for me to discover options for her, because she doesn't know much about computers. She's not even comfortable replacing a hard drive for that matter, but she'd be grateful for any help I can give her. I haven't said I'd help her though because I don't even know what's involved, but I'll go ahead and look at your link.

She thinks I'm smart and wizardlike with computers, but I told her my knowledge is inferior compared to a lot of people here on TCF.


----------



## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> Why not just set up auto-transfer profiles in kmttg to transfer to the NAS?


That does sound it makes more sense; I'll suggest this to her. Right now I only know how to set up one time transfers, but I'll look into the auto-transfer strategies.


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## timckelley

One thing I worry: Right now, she's already wiped out 3.9% of the NAS with shows. It doesn't sound like much, but we haven't had it very long. Well, her TiVos were full, and hopefully with her new breathing room, her rate of transfers will slow down soon.

The NAS, including hard drives, cost $400-$500, and I'd prefer that not to be an expense that recurs very often.


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## unitron

lrhorer said:


> True, but we aren't talking about analog broadcasts. As he mentioned, the analog channels are going away. We are talking about digital SD from a Premiere or THD vs digital SD converted to analog by a DTA or STB and then fed to the S2. Digital SD will be about 1.5G / hour. I don't have an S2 for actual comparison, but I suspect the S1's compression was about the same as the S2, and my old S1 recordings run close to 2.7G / hour. Of course, one has some control over the S2 coding rate, so if one is amenable to making the video even worse, recording in "basic" quality will result in less space utilization.


An S2 records a 2 hour movie from analog cable at best quality, then it gets copied to a FAT32 partition by TiVo Desktop and the last 5 minutes or so get lopped off by the FAT32 4GB file size limit.

Would the same show recorded at SD from a digital channel on an S3 make it onto that same FAT32 partition without any pieces missing?


----------



## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> That does sound it makes more sense; I'll suggest this to her. Right now I only know how to set up one time transfers, but I'll look into the auto-transfer strategies.


It is actually one of the few functions I found a little bit weird in kmttg. It took me a couple of tries before I understood the basic idea and was able to get it working properly. Once I understood what he had done, however, I didn't have any further problems. Give it a look, and post over in the Home Media thread if you get stuck. It is entirely possible you may not have the same misconceptions I did when I first tried it out.


----------



## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> One thing I worry: Right now, she's already wiped out 3.9% of the NAS with shows. It doesn't sound like much, but we haven't had it very long. Well, her TiVos were full, and hopefully with her new breathing room, her rate of transfers will slow down soon.


I'm sorry but I just have to chuckle at your expense on that one. 

At some point, I think you will really want to recode the videos to h.264. Using VRD, it is easy (and can even be automated), and will save you 30% on space. Assuming most of her material has commercials, and assuming you pad by 1 minute on both ends, editing out the commercials and padding will save an additional 30%, meaning you will fit about twice as many videos in the same space.

The only drawback (you will need to speak with the matrimonial unit about this) is you will either need to push the videos or else encounter somewhat slower transfers back to the TiVo. Note if she likes vidmgr, which I expect she will, the point is moot.

Now, pushing is really great, and you have seen some of the TV screen shots of vidmgr, which is a push add-on for pyTivo. (As I believe you know, one can also push from the pyTivo web interface from a PC.) There is one serous caveat, however. Pushing requires the cooperation of the TiVo mind server. If either the internet or the mind server are down, pushes will not work. We suffered a period of a couple of weeks when the mind server was severely impaired, and during that period, failure rates in excess of 70% were encountered. If it happens again, I suspect wifey won't be pleased. I'll leave you to decide when to warn her about the issue. During the initial adjustment phase may not be the best time.

One additional wrinkle revolves around your decision to purchase a NAS. Overall, I would not say it was a bad decision, by any means. There is one drawback, however. The NAS simply does not have a powerful processor. Ordinarily, it is far more than powerful enough to run pyTivo, vidmgr, Jukebox, etc. The exception is recoding video. Recoding video is exceedingly CPU intensive. Now, once again, 99% of the time, this will not be an issue in any way. If, however, you do decide to recode all your videos to h.264/MP4 (which I definitely recommend), and if the mind server starts having some issues, I would suggest the following:

For the duration of the issue, shut down pyTivo on the NAS, and temprarily fire it up on the fastest PC you have in the house. You will have to pull all the videos from the NPL, rather than pushing them (no vidmgr), but then that is a given. On the TiVo, you and your wife will not be able to tell any difference, except of course that the file transfers, while still slow, will not be as slow as from the NAS. Once the issue with the mind server has been resolved, you can easily shut down pyTivo on the PC and fire it back up on the NAS.



timckelley said:


> The NAS, including hard drives, cost $400-$500, and I'd prefer that not to be an expense that recurs very often.


Well, it shouldn't. The NAS itself can be upgraded without having to upgrade the drives. You can either purchase a larger NAS or more economically, roll your own server. Then of course, you can sell the NAS, sans drives. That said, 4% isn't much - yet. Nonetheless, I would come up with a budget for drive expansion based upon how fast you find yourself filling up the NAS. $100 a year or so - say $8 to $10 a month - may be more than enough.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> An S2 records a 2 hour movie from analog cable at best quality, then it gets copied to a FAT32 partition by TiVo Desktop and the last 5 minutes or so get lopped off by the FAT32 4GB file size limit.


That sounds about right. The compression on the S2 may be a bit better than the S1.



unitron said:


> Would the same show recorded at SD from a digital channel on an S3 make it onto that same FAT32 partition without any pieces missing?


It should very easily so, with quite a bit of room to spare. Of course, it depends entirely on the bit rate set by the provider, but the most common rate shaping in the industry allocates about 3.45 Mbps to each SD video stream. It can be more or less if they employ dynamic rate shaping. I rarely record any SD material, but I have done a small handful, and luckily a few of those are still coded as the original .mpg. The Roaring Twenties, which clocks in at 1:46:32, takes up 1.88G. Extending it to 2:00:00 would make it just a bit under 2.12G - far away from the 4G limit. (Not that I recommend FAT formatting.) It was recorded from Turner Classic Movies before they went HD. Calendar Girls, recorded from WGN America, is 1:31:13 and takes up 2.87G. Extending that to 2 hours would be 3.77G. 'More space, to be sure, but still under the 4G mark. Of course, recoding to h.264 will cut those figures by about 30%.


----------



## bareyb

timckelley said:


> The copyprotected shows on her TiVo Premier are supremely annoying her; she'd really like to transfer them to our NAS. She has a long list of such shows. She complained that I should have bought an S2 for her third TiVo and not a TiVo Premier. I told her that I got the Premier because it's more future thinking. I told her for one thing that Premier is hooked to an HD monitor, but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)
> 
> Also I told her that Time Warner has been one by one eliminating our analog channels. Later this month, there are 6 or 7 of them that are about to disappear. When we go all digital, she might be happy to have the Premier. (OTOH, maybe when that happens, the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.)
> 
> Anyway, my wife thought of a great idea. She could use the Premier to record local networks, and her two S2's for everything else. But that will be a lopsided arrangement (because she records an awful lot of stuff not on local networks), so to compensate, she can HMO a bunch of stuff from her S2s over to the Premier soon after they hit Now Playing, to balance out the hard disk demand. She told me that she's noticed that if she records on a nonnetwork chanel on an S2, then moves it to the Premier, it still remains uncopyprotected, so this strategy of hers sounds doable.
> 
> I did suggest another idea: that I trade my TiVo HD with her Premier (since I don't care about copy protection. I always watch then delete my shows anyhow.) Then, somehow hack the TiVo HD to defeat the copy protection. But I made this suggestion unseriously, because from what little I've read on this topic, such a hack sounds complicated, and there's a good chance my skills aren't enough to accomplish it.


I think it's time to cut your losses and kick her to the curb.


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## steve614

timckelley said:


> but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)


That's simple.

She cares more about the story than she does in how it's presented.

I can see where she is coming from. I recently upgraded from a CRT to an HDTV. I was frugal and didn't gain a lot of screen size.
I notice the difference, but "WOW" isn't one of the words I'd use to describe it.
More like "That's nice".

Your wife probably doesn't care at all, which makes things better for you.
Convert everything she saves to the highest SD quality and save yourself hard drive space.


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## lrhorer

steve614 said:


> That's simple.
> 
> She cares more about the story than she does in how it's presented.


That's specious. The two are irrevocably intertwined.

Story: A teenage girl and a teenage boy from feuding families met and impetuously fall in love. They secretly get married, but the boy in a fit of rage kills her cousin and is banished from the principality. She and a friar concoct a plan whereby she can go to be with her husband by faking her death. He thinks she is really dead, and kills himself. She sees him lying dead and kills herself. Everyone is sad.

There, I've given you the story, so you never need to watch any production of Romeo and Juliet, or any of its spin-offs, for that matter, right?

Presentation is of extreme importance, even in a book. If it weren't, there would be no point in going to see a play or a film based upon a book, at all.

Watching Franco Zefferelli's Romeo and Juliet is an excellent example. My sister taught English for over 30 years, and almost every year that she taught 9th grade, she would show that film to her class. Usually, it was on a small CRT. When Romeo kills Tybalt, the class laughed. They tended to yak through the presentation, and at the end were chatty and mostly upbeat. When she was able to take them to a theater, however, it was completely different. When Tybalt was killed, they gasped, and some even cried. For most of the film, the theater would be silent as a tomb, no pun intended. At the end of the film, almost everyone would be crying, and some would sob out loud. Few would speak.

I myself have seen the film many times, and on a small screen, the film just does not have a tremendous impact. On a very large screen, it leaves one breathless, and still does so, many years and many viewings later.

Some time try having two or more people tell you the same story, one of whom is a gifted storyteller, and the others not. The gifted storyteller will rivet you to the spot. The others will not make much of an impact, and may even bore or possibly even annoy you. The difference lies in one and only one thing: presentation.



steve614 said:


> I can see where she is coming from. I recently upgraded from a CRT to an HDTV. I was frugal and didn't gain a lot of screen size.
> I notice the difference, but "WOW" isn't one of the words I'd use to describe it.
> More like "That's nice".


I recently obtained a BluRay copy of The Man from Snowy River. I have seen this film more than a dozen times. "That's nice" certainly describes my reaction when watching it in SD on a small video monitor. "*Stunning!*" was my repeated thought while watching it on a 150" screen in 1080p. As a Thanksgiving treat, I let my housekeeper watch the film during her work hours. Almost the entire time, she sat with her hands over her face in awe. I seriously doubt she would have done so if she were watching it on a 19" CRT.

It is certainly true a superior presentation media will not make up for a poor script, poor acting, or poor cinematography. Indeed, it will make the latter much worse and may even make poor acting more evident. It is also true there are many shows that are not able to benefit much from a large, high definition display. You are not likely to see these in an IMAX theater. Many films, however, benefit greatly from a greater theatrical presence.



steve614 said:


> Your wife probably doesn't care at all, which makes things better for you.
> Convert everything she saves to the highest SD quality and save yourself hard drive space.


I wouldn't either, for a soap opera, which is one reason - although certainly not the top one or even one of the top three - I don't watch soap operas.


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## steve614

lrhorer said:


> That's specious. The two are irrevocably intertwined.
> <snip>


Yeah, wrong word choice. Let me rephrase:

She cares more about the story (and its presentation) than she does in how it's displayed (HD vs. SD).

I'm sure if I had a 150" 1080p screen, I would be WOWed too. 
But for now, I'm satisfied with a 32" 720p.


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## timckelley

I talked to my coworker who has a TiVo Premier and an S1, and she also doesn't care about HD.    She said to save space she records everything at lower quality except for one show because her sister likes that show, and wants to see it in HD.

She was quite disappointed when I told her my TCF findings about it being pretty much impossible to defeat the copy protection on a Premier, but now she's interested in getting a bigger HD for her Premier, as I think she also has space problems. But she doesn't feel comfortable opening the TiVo or a computer to do it. I suppose if I'm nice I could help her with it, as I still have my TiVo Premier utilities CD from back when I upgraded my wife's Premier.


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## HeatherA

Those women are crazy. I record nearly everything in HD and can't stand the look of SD. I want the story, the presentation and the display. Give me it all!


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## lrhorer

steve614 said:


> Yeah, wrong word choice. Let me rephrase:


OK.



steve614 said:


> She cares more about the story (and its presentation) than she does in how it's displayed (HD vs. SD).


Well, so do I. The movie Australia, for example, was visually absolutely astounding. The word "stunning" applied to its cinematography easily as well as to The Man from Snowy River. Meanwhile, the plot of TMFSR was nothing over which to get all excited, nor was the acting exactly stellar, but Australia downright sucked. For a given show, the greater size and higher resolution can make a huge difference, but admittedly in some cases not so much.

I will however dispute the notion that anyone watching a soap opera cares anything at all for the story.



steve614 said:


> I'm sure if I had a 150" 1080p screen, I would be WOWed too.


Excuse the pedantry, but the screen is 150". One can display any resolution one likes on it. The projector happens to support 1080p.



steve614 said:


> But for now, I'm satisfied with a 32" 720p.


Well, it is certainly better than nothing. I could barely even see a 32", unless I were sitting somewhat closer than I do in the theater, or in the living room for that matter.


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## lrhorer

HeatherA said:


> Those women are crazy. I record nearly everything in HD and can't stand the look of SD. I want the story, the presentation and the display. Give me it all!


Will you marry me?


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## mchief

Yes, but you need lots of money to afford me


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## timckelley

My wife made the comment that lrhorer might be good marriage material, given his advanced abilities to make TiVos do what you want them to do.


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## lrhorer

Just wait until she finds out what I can do with an oven... AND a dishwasher!

Hmm. You are close enough for her to drive down here, too.

I'm afraid things may not be looking too good for you, my friend. 

OTOH, one look at me and she will probably burn rubber all the way back to Austin.


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## HeatherA

timckelley said:


> My wife made the comment that lrhorer might be good marriage material, given his advanced abilities to make TiVos do what you want them to do.


Tell her to teach herself. It's so much fun. Now that I have my Premiere 4 tuner I am working on building up my library of re-watchable sitcoms (I love sitcoms) and have multiple SPs for the ones I'm working on. I use KMTTG to grab them, decrypt them, cut commercials out and then transfer them to my server and watch them via XBMC or Plex on my connected TVs. I'm also doing a similar thing with cheesy Christmas movies (adore those too) and using PyTivo as my final step to push them back to my main TiVo to group in one folder with all the metadata still intact.

The folks on here are so helpful. The tools they have given us are amazing, and whenever I hit a wall they walk me through it and I'm on to my next TiVo adventure. It makes TV viewing all the more fun knowing I'm in charge. 

My husband's role in all of this is more along the hardware side. He builds the computers, upgrades the TiVos (when we used to do that) and makes sure I can push the limits of whatever it is I decide I want to do... but I get to do all the fun stuff.

P.S. I know I'm lucky not to have any copy protection issues, but she could do the same things (on a lesser scale/less quality) with a S2 machine.


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## CraigK

steve614 said:


> That's simple.
> 
> She cares more about the story than she does in how it's presented.


That's the way my wife is. She doesn't care if it's HD or SD. I secretly go in and redo her Season Passes from the SD channel to the HD channel especially if it's a program we'll be watching together.

Luckily, unlike the OP's wife mine gets rid of programs quickly and rarely wants to save anything. She has all kind of available space on her 1TB TiVo HD.


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## lrhorer

HeatherA said:


> P.S. I know I'm lucky not to have any copy protection issues, but she could do the same things (on a lesser scale/less quality) with a S2 machine.


Or on a vastly expanded scale with the THD.


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## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> Why not just remove the SD channels from your listing?


That would break the Season Pass. He would still have to re-do the SP.


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## bareyb

Fofer said:


> Right but if he is already re-doing the SP anyway, he may as well fix it so that she can't make SD SP's again in the future (for shows on channels that have HD counterparts.)


Makes sense to me. We got rid of all of the SD Channels that had counterparts. There's really no reason for them to be in there. At least not for us (we have upgraded hard drives in all our boxes).


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## CraigK

bareyb said:


> Makes sense to me. We got rid of all of the SD Channels that had counterparts. There's really no reason for them to be in there. At least not for us (we have upgraded hard drives in all our boxes).


We have a Series 2 in another room (with the treadmill) that she transfers some shows from her Tivo HD to occasionally. They're usually not drama/comedy shows, but stuff like 60 Minutes or 20/20 so that's why at least some of the SD channels have to remain. I have to be selective on what Season Passes I "fix".


----------



## skruggie

OMG this is hysterical...I remember this thread from way back when I first got my tivo


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## dlfl

skruggie said:


> OMG this is hysterical...I remember this thread from way back when I first got my tivo


 There are so many things my wife won't do! In almost all cases she's just exhibiting good judgement. For better or worse her interest in TiVo doesn't go much beyond knowing how to change channels and play recordings.


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## lrhorer

timckelly,

How is the new server working out? Have you ventured out into the wild, blue horizon of advanced network apps, yet?


----------



## murgatroyd

We need a companion thread, "husband won't set up my file server". 

(Yes, I need to get back to studying pyTiVo.)


----------



## timckelley

lrhorer said:


> timckelly,
> 
> How is the new server working out? Have you ventured out into the wild, blue horizon of advanced network apps, yet?


It's working smoothly with regards to backing up my wife's shows, except she always gets me to do it for her. As user friendly as it is, my wife is uncomfortable doing it herself. I started writing a user document for her, but haven't finished it. Since she's not that familiar with even basic windows commands, like creating folders and renaming them (and that's involved when you create folders within shares, which she likes to have), that means my user document has to be very detailed explaining even the most basic steps. I just haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I actually decided it's easier to use the pyTiVo web screen directly instead of trying to use kmttg, by the way. It seems more reliable, especially when she wants to queue up a bunch of shows for transferring.

However, she's only using it at a basic level - i.e. transferring shows directly from TiVo to our new file server. I actually have a video of my son I'd like to put there too, and I'm pretty sure I can use the encoding features of kmttg to do it.

As for advanced network apps, I haven't looked into that. I'm just now getting around to moving our printers to be hooked up to the file server, and I could swear it came with PC back up/restore utilities, but after looking at the synology software that came with it, I can't find any such features. I suppose it's not big deal - there's all kinds of PC backup/restore freeware on internet that's available. My server is mapped as a T: drive, so any backing up software I use can simply specify T: as the target drive.


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## timckelley

By the way, my wife has made quite a few cracks along the lines of "why didn't I just buy her another TiVo, instead of this complicated file server?" She doesn't need my help to move shows between actual TiVos, but she apparently does need my help using pyTiVo, so she seems like she wishes I'd've gotten another TiVo instead.

I keep telling her I have no regrets, because

I've always wanted a file server for more reasons than backing up shows.
She's getting 3TBs of space (actually 6, but it's a 2 drive raid array, so really it's just 3), which I don't think any TiVo I would have bought her would have had.
 I think the price per byte of storage is cheaper this way than buying another TiVo
She already has enough tuners. Buying another TiVo involves spending $ on more than just storage - you're buying a tuner and guide data, and all that.

Assuming I'm getting a file server anyway, a TiVo + a file server is fairly expensive, and I don't want to shell out that much $.


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## bareyb

timckelley said:


> *By the way, my wife has made quite a few cracks along the lines of "why didn't I just buy her another TiVo, instead of this complicated file server?" * She doesn't need my help to move shows between actual TiVos, but she apparently does need my help using pyTiVo, so she seems like she wishes I'd've gotten another TiVo instead.
> 
> I keep telling her I have no regrets, because
> 
> I've always wanted a file server for more reasons than backing up shows.
> She's getting 3TBs of space (actually 6, but it's a 2 drive raid array, so really it's just 3), which I don't think any TiVo I would have bought her would have had.
> I think the price per byte of storage is cheaper this way than buying another TiVo
> She already has enough tuners. Buying another TiVo involves spending $ on more than just storage - you're buying a tuner and guide data, and all that.
> 
> Assuming I'm getting a file server anyway, a TiVo + a file server is fairly expensive, and I don't want to shell out that much $.


Tell her she has a problem and you are no longer willing to enable her. Seems to work pretty well on "Intervention".


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## mattack

timckelley said:


> [*]She's getting 3TBs of space (actually 6, but it's a 2 drive raid array, so really it's just 3), which I don't think any TiVo I would have bought her would have had.


Nope, Tivos won't even boot with a drive > 2 TB installed, even if the OS is only configured for 2 TB at least that's what I gather on the upgrade discussions.


----------



## lrhorer

timckelley said:


> It's working smoothly with regards to backing up my wife's shows, except she always gets me to do it for her.


It sounds like you need an automated process.



timckelley said:


> I actually decided it's easier to use the pyTiVo web screen directly instead of trying to use kmttg, by the way. It seems more reliable, especially when she wants to queue up a bunch of shows for transferring.


I definitely don't follow that, especially if one employs kmttg's auto transfer utilities. The only real issue I have had on a recurring basis was when a series insists on giving two different episodes the exact same name. There are work-arounds for that, but none were really compatible with my scripts. It just meant I had to intervene manually.



timckelley said:


> However, she's only using it at a basic level - i.e. transferring shows directly from TiVo to our new file server. I actually have a video of my son I'd like to put there too, and I'm pretty sure I can use the encoding features of kmttg to do it.


From what source?


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> Does she ever actually go back and watch any of the shows you're offloading to this "file server?" Ever?


Why the quotes around the term? He has a file server. A NAS, as I recall.

As to her watching, I would expect it would be far more likely than what he was doing before, IIRC. I believe he was archiving to DVD.


----------



## murgatroyd

Fofer said:


> I'm not asking what's "far more likely."
> 
> I'm asking if she ever watches any of these "archives" -- on DVD, or off the NAS.
> 
> (And I'm betting the answer is no.)
> 
> Methinks there's a better solution here and it doesn't involve throwing technology at the "problem."


I don't see what business it is of ours if she is watching what she records or not, or how long it takes her to get around to it.

We all make choices of what we want to watch, what we want to keep, how much money we want to spend, and so on. I'm noticing that lately people here are awfully quick to make moral judgements about what other people do, simply because what other people like to do is not the same as what they like to do. It doesn't matter what our reasons might be, what our budget might be, or any of the other variables. If we don't do things their way, we are wrong.

We recently got someone boasting in the Downton Abbey thread that they never pay for anything that they can watch on broadcast for free. This was in response to someone else saying that a missed episode was available for download from iTunes. Maybe it is more convenient to buy it from iTunes than it is to sit at the computer and watch the episode for free from PBS.org. Why should he cares if someone else spends money to get an episode off iTunes? They weren't spending his money.

IMO, the only reason to ask whether Tim's wife is watching something out of her archive or not is to debug their workflow, and to remove any impediment there might be to her watching something, if and when she wants to. There are reasons her watching time is limited, and I don't see why she shouldn't have a choice of what she wants to see when she can watch something. How much she can afford to keep is between her and Tim. It's not my place to say anything about that. The only reason the volume should come into play is for technical considerations of how to deal with that size of video library.

I personally think it is lunacy *for me* to archive whole seasons of a show off cable or OTA when it is available for purchase on DVD, because I can barely keep up with archiving the shows that aren't commercially available and never will be.

But not everyone will share this view, just like not everyone in the Ultraviolet thread does things the way you like to do it.

Can we please stick to discussing the technical aspects, and let Tim and his wife decide for themselves what works best for them?


----------



## murgatroyd

Fofer said:


> Sorry, no. It's a public discussion forum, and that's what happens. You're passing judgment via an assumption that I'm passing judgment. Neither of us is right or wrong. C'est la vie.


I just find it curious that having gone around and around with everyone who insisted that you didn't need Ultraviolet because they didn't need Ultraviolet, that you would use the same kind of argument on someone else.

I think there's a better solution that doesn't involve technology, too, but since I'm not in a position to volunteer to help with watching their kid or do their housework so Tim's wife can watch more of her shows, nor do I have a magic wand to give her more hours in her day, what point is there for me to say so?


----------



## timckelley

I've asked my wife about it, and thinks she might need these shows in her old age. I personally have more confidence that there will always be new content available that's worth watching. My wife doesn't have that confidence though.


----------



## mattack

Fofer said:


> Does she ever actually go back and watch any of the shows you're offloading to this "file server?" Ever?


I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm using offloading to a drive connected to a computer, and I *do* go back and watch at least some of the shows. Since I have less storage on the Tivos, I download shows in groups and then watch them in air order later, if they're not a show I keep up on week to week.

(There are other things, like music shows & musical performances from talk shows, that I *haven't* really watched, but "someday" intend to rip the audio off to use as songs on my ipod/iphone.)


----------



## timckelley

It's possible she's watched some of the offloaded shows - I don't know. I'll have to ask her.


----------



## murgatroyd

Fofer said:


> But what's been left out of this thread, it seems, is the very frank admission about what happens to these shows after they are offloaded (ie: NOTHING) and that's a little unfair to those who've been following along for all this time.


Unfair to the people reading this thread? You're complaining that the thread will never be resolved? _Seriously?_ This from the person who foisted the rebus thread on Happy Hour?

Tim has created a thread which is useful for anyone who is struggling with a lack of time to watch their shows and a limited amount of disk space.

He doesn't owe the people who are reading this thread anything.


----------



## murgatroyd

Fofer said:


> I'm not following, and the "argument" about Ultraviolet played out quite a bit differently in my perspective then the problem posed by this thread did.


I don't see why you, or Tim's wife, or anyone here should have to justify liking what you like, or wanting what you want. What matters is whether the solution meets your needs.


----------



## murgatroyd

There has been lots of new information. The thread will be handy when I set up my file server. 

Look, I'm sorry to take it out on you personally. I'm just fed up with the general contempt I see on this board for spouses who aren't on TCF themselves, and the contrary attitude. If someone asks "how can I do this with [this set of equipment] then someone else says how cheap it would be to buy something newer. But in the threads where someone is buying the newer stuff, they whine that the OP is spending too much money. What's wrong with actually, you know, being helpful, and giving people a straight answer? Quaint and old-fashioned, I know.


----------



## bareyb

Fofer said:


> Meh. Apology accepted and all, but let's be adults here. The wheels of the bus go 'round and 'round. Everyone has an agenda, even you. Yes, you've got a contrary attitude (and contempt) for plenty of things too.
> 
> I'm not scolding anyone, I am participating in a public discussion. After ten years, some other perspectives might (and probably _should_) emerge. This is healthy discourse.
> 
> Carry on.


FWIW, I'm right there with ya Fof. I've known Tim's wife had a "problem" for years now. I've alluded to her hoarding more than once, and let's face it, that's all this really is. She's running on fear and her decisions are made out of fear. She uses the exact same "logic" that all the Hoarders on the TV show use. Saying she may "need them in her old age" is just more of her kidding herself.

Granted, it's a fairly harmless variation of the hoarding gene, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend there is actually any solution for what is going on. The Hoard will simply continue to grow. If it were my wife, I'm not sure what I'd do... From watching Hoarders on TV, it would seem they get VERY upset if you try to stop them, so it's quite possible, I'd simply turn a blind eye and do exactly what Tim is doing... Marriages are funny that way.


----------



## steve614

The good thing about this type of hoarding is it doesn't take up much physical space. You can put a lot of shows on a 2TB hard drive, and you can put a lot of hard drives in a shoebox.


----------



## unitron

bareyb said:


> FWIW, I'm right there with ya Fof. I've known Tim's wife had a "problem" for years now. I've alluded to her hoarding more than once, and let's face it, that's all this really is. She's running on fear and her decisions are made out of fear. She uses the exact same "logic" that all the Hoarders on the TV show use. Saying she may "need them in her old age" is just more of her kidding herself.
> 
> Granted, it's a fairly harmless variation of the hoarding gene, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend there is actually any solution for what is going on. The Hoard will simply continue to grow. If it were my wife, I'm not sure what I'd do... From watching Hoarders on TV, it would seem they get VERY upset if you try to stop them, so it's quite possible, I'd simply turn a blind eye and do exactly what Tim is doing... Marriages are funny that way.


That's why the marriage vows say "for better or for foibles and eccentricities".


----------



## bareyb

unitron said:


> That's why the marriage vows say "for better or for foibles and eccentricities".


Exactly. Everyone has their quirks. Show me someone whose spouse doesn't do anything annoying and I'll show you someone who hasn't been married very long.


----------



## terpfan1980

Hey! stop trying to make Tim fix this. If he does that, then who will have all of this old content to provide to the Smithsonian some day?


----------



## murgatroyd

terpfan1980 said:


> Hey! stop trying to make Tim fix this.  If he does that, then who will have all of this old content to provide to the Smithsonian some day?


:up: :up: :up:


----------



## bareyb

terpfan1980 said:


> Hey! stop trying to make Tim fix this. If he does that, then who will have all of this old content to provide to the Smithsonian some day?


Good point.


----------



## cathyy

Oh, Tim, Tim. How naive you are. My husband likes to save old TV series and movies too. Even he is unsure how much he has, but he is checking right now to see. He thinks he ought to know how much he has. (Waits while he looks) Looks like about 6 terabytes right now, with another terabyte in digitized comics. He has plans for a 15 terabyte Drobo very soon, holding 5 drives of 3 terabytes each, set up to tolerate either a single or multiple drive failures - a lot depends on how much it will actually hold set up to tolerate multiple drive failures. It will store 11 terabytes at single drive failure, so I wonder if it will hold it all set for multiple.


----------



## igirl

We moved recently and had similar issues - catching up on way too many recorded shows and clearing space for new ones.

I transferred tons of shows to HDD over my network using iTivo - then deleted them from the Tivo.

Dropped them (as sym links) into iTunes and are watching them on our Apple TV 3.
We could also watch them on our WDTV Live.
Or watch them on our iPads.

No space limitations - all the time in the world to "catch up".


----------



## Bigg

I don't get this thing with recording massive amounts of TV. I pretty much go through my DVR at the end of the week and delete most of what's on it. A few things might stay 2-3 weeks, but I either really want to watch them, or they are a goner. I just moved from a Comcast DVR of unknown size to an MCE machine with 3TB, and right now I need to do a cleanout. I have 75GB of shows on it (Comcast HD). TiVo is likely my next step in the DVR world, and I don't expect to get about maybe 10% at MOST on an XL4. Mainly I just like the disk space so I can let the thing go nuts and not worry about it filling up if I'm away for a week or two.

OTOH, my mom seems to have issues keeping her Comcast DVR clean. It's a 500GB DCX3400, and it's always teetering on the edge of not having enough space. I don't get it. If you're not going to watch it, delete it. I think the TiVo S2 that preceded that one was chock full when it died. Did she miss anything on it? Nope.


----------



## steve614

Bigg said:


> I don't get this thing with recording massive amounts of TV.


If you have the resources, why not?
It saves you from having to pay for Netflix or iTunes if you ever want to watch shows after they have originally aired.
Sure, you could probably watch them online for free, but who wants to watch TV on a computer screen from an online source that most likely forces you to watch ads?


----------



## WhiskeyTango

Bigg said:


> I don't get it. If you're not going to watch it, delete it.


I have plenty of shows that I want to watch but just don't have the time to keep up with all of them. It's simply not possible to watch 40+ hours of TV a week so I watch about 20 shows at any given time. When I finish all episodes of a show, I add one of the backlogged shows into the mix. Why should I give up watching a show I enjoy just because I can't watch it in real time when I have the ability to have that show waiting for me when I'm good and ready. That's basically the point of having a DVR, watch when YOU want to not when the networks want you to. And in your case, if you aren't going to watch it, why are you recording it in the first place?


----------



## timckelley

My wife continues to remind me that she needs me to write up some pyTiVo instructions so she won't have to rely on my help with it.

Last night after my son went to sleep I stay up until almost midnight writing part 1 of some 2-part instructions.

Part 1 is queueing shows to transfer from TiVos to T:\HoldingArea. (That's the folder pyTiVo is configured to move the shows to.)

Part 2, which I'm working on right now, while my wife and son are at a Valentine's party, is how to move shows from T:\HoldingArea to her various shares.

It all sounds simple, but I'm including screen shots and writing it in lay lingo to somebody who doesn't know how to use Windows. (i.e. I can't assume she has any windows knowledge.) At least this is how she told me to write it, because she has no confidence in her knowledge of Windows, but to be honest she has some experience with it. But just minimal experience. I'm not sure if she even knows how to rename files or folders, or delete or insert new folders, for example.


----------



## jrtroo

Sounds like a great episode of Modern Family. Yikes.


----------



## timckelley

Document is complete.


----------



## Bigg

steve614 said:


> If you have the resources, why not?
> It saves you from having to pay for Netflix or iTunes if you ever want to watch shows after they have originally aired.
> Sure, you could probably watch them online for free, but who wants to watch TV on a computer screen from an online source that most likely forces you to watch ads?


It's not really the same at all. A DVR is not the be-all-end-all to "on demand" video.

Watch stuff on TV, enjoy it, and delete it. I just did my weekly cleanout, and I'm down to 2 hours on my DVR.



WhiskeyTango said:


> I have plenty of shows that I want to watch but just don't have the time to keep up with all of them. It's simply not possible to watch 40+ hours of TV a week so I watch about 20 shows at any given time. When I finish all episodes of a show, I add one of the backlogged shows into the mix. Why should I give up watching a show I enjoy just because I can't watch it in real time when I have the ability to have that show waiting for me when I'm good and ready. That's basically the point of having a DVR, watch when YOU want to not when the networks want you to. And in your case, if you aren't going to watch it, why are you recording it in the first place?


Because if you keep getting farther behind, you're never going to actually watch them. At some point, you have to realize it's pointless, and just delete them. I pretty much use a 2-3 week rule. If I haven't found it interesting by that point, I'm not going to, and I nuke it.

The point of a DVR is to time shift and zap commercials, not create a massive stockpile of TV shows. So that tonight's ep of Finding Bigfoot, I can watch it tomorrow or the next day or the next. But if I don't watch it by next weekend, I can be pretty sure I don't really want to watch it, and I should probably delete it (I will watch it).


----------



## unitron

Bigg said:


> ...
> 
> The point of a DVR is to time shift and zap commercials, not create a massive stockpile of TV shows...


The point of *my* DVR is to do what I want it to do, not for me to do what it wants me to do.

And the point is certainly not for either of us to feel compelled to adhere to someone else's idea of what we should be doing or how we should be doing it.


----------



## javabird

unitron said:


> The point of *my* DVR is to do what I want it to do, not for me to do what it wants me to do.


This.


----------



## igirl

Bigg said:


> I don't get this thing with recording massive amounts of TV...


_And to all the others..._

In our most recent example - we relocated to another city & state. I stayed behind selling the house and packing while hubby started a new position and worked for a few months while also scouting for new homes to purchase.

We have multiple shows we like - so I archived them via Tivo - and when the Tivo got full - I archived them over to an external HDD on the network. We are slowly but surely catching up, but it will take months as he only has the time to watch 1-2 shows a day at the most.

Meanwhile, we'll never have to watch a commercial. It's all time shifted for as long as we like. Periods of the year contain big black outs in shows/networks we enjoy - so we'll have plenty saved up to fill the gaps.

Sometimes we go away on business or take vacations too - another need to archive shows. Sometimes only one of us wants a show and the other is not interested - so we have our "own" individual recordings as well - saved for use as we see fit, at a later time.

Get it now? 

And if the shows ever do completely run out on the Tivo - we also have Netflix. 
Bottom line = we HATE LIVE TV and almost never ever ever ever watch it - due to commercials.


----------



## Bigg

igirl said:


> _And to all the others..._
> 
> In our most recent example - we relocated to another city & state. I stayed behind selling the house and packing while hubby started a new position and worked for a few months while also scouting for new homes to purchase.
> 
> We have multiple shows we like - so I archived them via Tivo - and when the Tivo got full - I archived them over to an external HDD on the network. We are slowly but surely catching up, but it will take months as he only has the time to watch 1-2 shows a day at the most.
> 
> Meanwhile, we'll never have to watch a commercial. It's all time shifted for as long as we like. Periods of the year contain big black outs in shows/networks we enjoy - so we'll have plenty saved up to fill the gaps.
> 
> Sometimes we go away on business or take vacations too - another need to archive shows. Sometimes only one of us wants a show and the other is not interested - so we have our "own" individual recordings as well - saved for use as we see fit, at a later time.
> 
> Get it now?
> 
> And if the shows ever do completely run out on the Tivo - we also have Netflix.
> Bottom line = we HATE LIVE TV and almost never ever ever ever watch it - due to commercials.


Sounds like too much TV.


----------



## steve614

Bigg said:


> Sounds like too much TV.


Don't be jealous.


----------



## mattack

Bigg said:


> It's not really the same at all. A DVR is not the be-all-end-all to "on demand" video.


Not the be all and and all, but CLOSE.

Yes, I have used Cable's On Demand from my Tivo and appreciate it being there.. But I can't skip commercials on that.

IF I had infinite storage, I'd just record everything with buffers on both ends. Recording MORE than you can watch ends up giving you new shows all summer long, where there are fewer new shows on (More in the past ~10 years than previously, but still less than during the main first run season.. and most of the summer stuff is reality, which some [not me] hate.)

SOME things I record for keeps.. not much, but I just like having a HUGE variety of what to pick.. I have "gotten into" something I had a season or more of, then caught up on.

(There is also a downside, yes, your drive can go bad.)


----------



## Bigg

Fofer said:


> The other downside is, you're watching too much TV.


Yup lol.


----------



## mattack

There's no such thing as too much TV.


----------



## aaronwt

At some point though stuff gets deleted. I have many terabytes of HD content that I've recorded since Summer 2001. I did recently delete around 4TB of that content from one of my unRAID servers since I had not watched it in a long time and most of it is available now from BD or from a streaming service in HD. 

Although I still have more terabytes of HDTV content left than I deleted. But at least I'm making progress. I'm sure I'll delete more soon since I'm keeping getting close to the storage limit of 99TB I have between my WHS and my two unRAID servers.(unless I buy more hard drives and external eSata boxes to add to my second unRAID) And most of the content Ive been putting on them the last few years has been BD content instead of broadcast recordings.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## shwru980r

steve614 said:


> Sure, you could probably watch them online for free, but who wants to watch TV on a computer screen


A google tv device like the logitech revue allows you to watch free online video on your TV.


----------



## shwru980r

steve614 said:


> If you have the resources, why not?


I think it would cause your hard drive to fail sooner than if you only recorded what you can watch.


----------



## WhiskeyTango

shwru980r said:


> I think it would cause your hard drive to fail sooner than if you only recorded what you can watch.


You're joking right?


----------



## Bigg

aaronwt said:


> At some point though stuff gets deleted. I have many terabytes of HD content that I've recorded since Summer 2001. I did recently delete around 4TB of that content from one of my unRAID servers since I had not watched it in a long time and most of it is available now from BD or from a streaming service in HD.
> 
> Although I still have more terabytes of HDTV content left than I deleted. But at least I'm making progress. I'm sure I'll delete more soon since I'm keeping getting close to the storage limit of 99TB I have between my WHS and my two unRAID servers.(unless I buy more hard drives and external eSata boxes to add to my second unRAID) And most of the content Ive been putting on them the last few years has been BD content instead of broadcast recordings.
> 
> Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


HOLY ****. 99TB? It's not even possible to watch that much!!! And, while I'm commenting, I have to ask what stopped you from crossing the 100TB mark just to say that you did it?


----------



## timckelley

Wow, so that's almost .001 times as much as Data's (from Star Trek Next Generation) brain. (which supposedly holds 100,000 TB of memory).


----------



## aaronwt

Bigg said:


> HOLY ****. 99TB? It's not even possible to watch that much!!! And, while I'm commenting, I have to ask what stopped you from crossing the 100TB mark just to say that you did it?


I have some more hard drives lying around that I could use, but I would need to buy more 4-bay, eSATA, eclosures that are port multiplier capable. So instead of spending more money for enclosures(I'm already using twelve enclosures with my WHS and unRAID), at some point I'll end up taking enclosures from my WHS and adding them to my second unRAID setup. Since the WHS with duplication only gives you 4TB of storage from 8TB of space(I use four, 2TB drives in each enclosure). But if I move them to my unRAID, I would have all 8TB in each enclosure available to use for storage.

Although another option would be to take the 4 bay enclosure I use with my TiVo Desktop server and use that with my unRAID instead. But then I wouldn't have dedicated local storage for TiVo Desktop.


----------



## bareyb

aaronwt said:


> Although I still have more terabytes of HDTV content left than I deleted, at least I'm making progress. I'm sure I'll delete more soon...


----------



## timckelley

I'm starting to have a new problem with my own TiVo. Over the course of many years, I've been gaining about 1 pound per year, but over the years that can add up.

One thing that contributes to it is that most nights, after my son goes to sleep, I'll watch TV while eating popcorn. Well one week ago today, I was walking to the Grocery store to buy more popcorn, and as I passed by the library, I could see my reflection in the glass wall, and I didn't like how big my stomach looked. So I turned right around and aborted the trip and told myself I would no longer eat anything after dinner.

Even though I may feel a little hungry, I tell myself that soon I'll be asleep anyhow, wake up, and it'll be breakfast time. It's been working, and I'm already losing weight, but a side effect is that I seem to have lost the desire to watch TV. I've watched no TV at all since one week ago. Undoubtedly my TiVo is probably backing up. I really don't have many SPs, so it shouldn't take long to catch up if I so choose. I just need to decide how interested I still am in those SPs. I'm into the shows, so I'd like to see how they continue to develop, but nighttime has always been when I have time to watch TV. I think even when this thread started, about 10 years ago, I said as much.

Oh a great side effect though is that all my nighttime heartburn has vanished. I feel like I could live long term with this new eating strategy; I just hope that three months down the road I don't fall to temptation, but really I think I have a decent chance of sticking to this. I really don't think it's that big a sacrifice. (Even though popcorn is my most favorite food that exists on this planet - well when I go to the cinema, which only happens a few times a year, I bet I'll supremely appreciate the popcorn there.)


----------



## Bigg

timckelley said:


> I'm starting to have a new problem with my own TiVo. Over the course of many years, I've been gaining about 1 pound per year, but over the years that can add up.
> 
> One thing that contributes to it is that most nights, after my son goes to sleep, I'll watch TV while eating popcorn. Well one week ago today, I was walking to the Grocery store to buy more popcorn, and as I passed by the library, I could see my reflection in the glass wall, and I didn't like how big my stomach looked. So I turned right around and aborted the trip and told myself I would no longer eat anything after dinner.
> 
> Even though I may feel a little hungry, I tell myself that soon I'll be asleep anyhow, wake up, and it'll be breakfast time. It's been working, and I'm already losing weight, but a side effect is that I seem to have lost the desire to watch TV. I've watched no TV at all since one week ago. Undoubtedly my TiVo is probably backing up. I really don't have many SPs, so it shouldn't take long to catch up if I so choose. I just need to decide how interested I still am in those SPs. I'm into the shows, so I'd like to see how they continue to develop, but nighttime has always been when I have time to watch TV. I think even when this thread started, about 10 years ago, I said as much.
> 
> Oh a great side effect though is that all my nighttime heartburn has vanished. I feel like I could live long term with this new eating strategy; I just hope that three months down the road I don't fall to temptation, but really I think I have a decent chance of sticking to this. I really don't think it's that big a sacrifice. (Even though popcorn is my most favorite food that exists on this planet - well when I go to the cinema, which only happens a few times a year, I bet I'll supremely appreciate the popcorn there.)


Or you could eat less for dinner and then eat popcorn!


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> HOLY ****. 99TB? It's not even possible to watch that much!!!


Oh, sure it is. Right now I only have about 2000 videos, some of them only 22 minutes long, and it fills up 13T. If most of the files were not h.264, that number would be closer to 18T. I've watched almost every video on the system at least once, and some of them many times. A 99T array is only about 5 times that size - perhaps 10,000 or so videos. Watching one movie and one series episode a day on average would run through 10,000 videos in only 14 years or so, and many people watch considerably more than one series episode and one movie a day on average.


----------



## Bigg

An entire movie a day is a LOT of media consumption, but you need enough media stored for 14 years?!?!? There's always going to be new media to acquire!


----------



## mattack

an entire movie/day is a lot of media consumption? Even using a long estimate, that's 2 hrs/day. The average TV usage is MANY more hours than that a day of TV.


----------



## Bigg

mattack said:


> an entire movie/day is a lot of media consumption? Even using a long estimate, that's 2 hrs/day. The average TV usage is MANY more hours than that a day of TV.


I might average an hour a day of actually sitting down and watching TV. Probably less. And even that seems like quite a bit.


----------



## mattack

You're on the very low end of the Bell curve.


----------



## Bigg

mattack said:


> You're on the very low end of the Bell curve.


I can think of a lot of people who have the TV on a lot like I sometimes do, but not many people who actually sit down in front of the TV that much...


----------



## WizarDru

Bigg said:


> I can think of a lot of people who have the TV on a lot like I sometimes do, but not many people who actually sit down in front of the TV that much...


I'm sure you do, but that really is on the far end of TV viewing. 
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...watching-tv-nielsen-numbers-article-1.1162285

Even with the continuing decline of TV viewership, people still watch a LOT of TV every week.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> You're on the very low end of the Bell curve.


I thought the Bell curve measured tele_phone_ usage.


----------



## Bigg

WizarDru said:


> I'm sure you do, but that really is on the far end of TV viewing.
> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...watching-tv-nielsen-numbers-article-1.1162285
> 
> Even with the continuing decline of TV viewership, people still watch a LOT of TV every week.


Is that counting when the TV is on, or when people are actually actively WATCHING it? If you count TV on, that would triple or more my count. And the line really starts to blur when you're downloading or streaming cable TV content on a computer, which for me is almost all secondary usage, like while folding laundry.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> An entire movie a day is a LOT of media consumption, but you need enough media stored for 14 years?!?!?


It's not the amount of media, it is the variety. Hypothetically, if one watches 8 hours of video a week, one could get by with only 8 hours worth of media for the week, but it would not allow for anything reasonable in terms of a selection from which to choose. Indeed, even with nearly 2000 videos, when my brothers, sister-in-law, and sister are visiting, it can be difficult to find even one that everyone likes and wants to watch.



Bigg said:


> There's always going to be new media to acquire!


Not so much, really. Most of the stuff coming out is crap. The peak year in my collection was 1984, and by a very wide margin, most of the programs came out before 1990.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> I might average an hour a day of actually sitting down and watching TV. Probably less. And even that seems like quite a bit.


I don't watch anything like the 40 hours listed in the posts above, but I surely usually watch more than 7 hours a week, most weeks.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> Is that counting when the TV is on, or when people are actually actively WATCHING it?


I don't ever turn a TV on without watching it.


----------



## Bigg

lrhorer said:


> It's not the amount of media, it is the variety. Hypothetically, if one watches 8 hours of video a week, one could get by with only 8 hours worth of media for the week, but it would not allow for anything reasonable in terms of a selection from which to choose. Indeed, even with nearly 2000 videos, when my brothers, sister-in-law, and sister are visiting, it can be difficult to find even one that everyone likes and wants to watch.
> 
> Not so mush, really. Most of the stuff coming out is crap. The peak year in my collection was 1984, and by a very wide margin, most of the programs came out before 1990.


Oooookay. There's Netflix, there's rentals, or there's maintaining an expensive and cumbersome hoard of content....


lrhorer said:


> I don't ever turn a TV on without watching it.


What about news shows or Daily Show/ Colbert Report? Those shows don't really need to be watched... you can do other things while listening to them.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> Oooookay. There's Netflix


Which has almost nothing of interest not already on my server, and costs money.



Bigg said:


> there's rentals, or there's maintaining an expensive


The content on the server cost a great deal less than renting, and rentals are rarely of interest. They are also a pain.



Bigg said:


> and cumbersome hoard of content....


It's not in the least cumbersome. The only maintenance occurs when the content is recorded and cataloged. Admittedly, I do at that point have to decide on the appropriate genres (comedy, drama, western, etc.) and I do choose to get the cover art at that point in time.



Bigg said:


> What about news shows or Daily Show/ Colbert Report? Those shows don't really need to be watched... you can do other things while listening to them.


I don't watch those... or listen to them. Even if I did, I would not attempt to do two things at once. That merely results in a poor outcome of both endeavors.


----------



## Bigg

lrhorer said:


> Which has almost nothing of interest not already on my server, and costs money.


Sorry to break the news of math to you, but even if you expect your NAS to last a very, very generous 5 years, you'd have to have spent less than $8*60mo = $480 on your whole thing, which clearly is not the case. So that one's busted.



lrhorer said:


> The content on the server cost a great deal less than renting, and rentals are rarely of interest. They are also a pain.
> 
> It's not in the least cumbersome. The only maintenance occurs when the content is recorded and cataloged. Admittedly, I do at that point have to decide on the appropriate genres (comedy, drama, western, etc.) and I do choose to get the cover art at that point in time.
> 
> I don't watch those... or listen to them. Even if I did, I would not attempt to do two things at once. That merely results in a poor outcome of both endeavors.


Where did all that stuff come from?

You should try being more engaged in what's going on in the world... heck, watch the evening news if you want the boring version geared towards old people. Any of those aren't that interesting to sit there and watch, and it is easy to absorb everything they are saying while doing something else. Believe me, I wouldn't be sitting in from of the TV watching TWiT, John Stewart, Steven Colbert, Rachel Maddow, and Bill Maher every week. I don't have that kind of time. But I watch them while I'm doing laundry, dishes, preparing food, making lunch for the next day, etc.


----------



## timckelley

Bigg said:


> Sorry to break the news of math to you, but even if you expect your NAS to last a very, very generous 5 years, you'd have to have spent less than $8*60mo = $480 on your whole thing, which clearly is not the case. So that one's busted.


IIRC my NAS, including its 6 TB, cost somewhere around $400, and I would hope it lasts considerably longer than 5 years.


----------



## terpfan1980

timckelley said:


> IIRC my NAS, including its 6 GB, cost somewhere around $400, and I would hope it lasts considerably longer than 5 years.


I think you might want to update to note that you are talking about TB, not GB.


----------



## timckelley

terpfan1980 said:


> I think you might want to update to note that you are talking about TB, not GB.


Oops, you're right.


----------



## timckelley

timckelley said:


> IIRC my NAS, including its 6 TB, cost somewhere around $400, and I would hope it lasts considerably longer than 5 years.


I have to retract this. I just looked up my records, and by the time you add in sales tax, I spent a hair over $500.


----------



## timckelley

Fofer said:


> If a show isn't watched for more than 5 years, do you honestly think your wife is going to go back into the archives on the NAS and watch it? Really?


I've had my doubts, but my wife claims yes.



Fofer said:


> What did she say when you asked [whether she's watched an NAS'd show]?


She said yes she has. I then asked if she watched them by transferring them from the NAS to a TiVo then watching it, or did she watch it off her TiVo just after NASing it, but before deleting it off the TiVo? She said for all but one, it was the latter, but there was one show she did transfer from NAS to TiVo, after the original TiVo deletion, so she could watch it.

For the more common situation (where she watched it before deleting it from her TiVo, but had already NAS'd it), I have a sneaking feeling that she might have never deleted it from the NAS. I think she likes to save certain shows that she's already watched, because she thinks they're good and worth saving, I guess so that she has the option to watch them again later if she wants. I would like to think if the show's not notable though - but that she simply wanted to watch it before losing it - that she'd delete it from the NAS. I guess I should have asked her about that.

Oh wait - she doesn't know how to delete a show from the NAS, and she's never asked me to delete one for her. I need to remind her that she can do this.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> Sorry to break the news of math to you, but even if you expect your NAS to last a very, very generous 5 years


I don't have a NAS. I have several servers in my house. Two of them are more than 10 years old, one of which is serving video. I expect both (with upgrades, of course - neither has many of their original components, even today) to last until my death.



Bigg said:


> you'd have to have spent less than $8*60mo = $480 on your whole thing, which clearly is not the case. So that one's busted.


The servers are necessary, quite apart from one of them having as part of its duties holding and serving video data. Actually coming up with a correct number for the total cost would be very difficult. At a minimum it is 8 drives * $150 per drive, or $1200. It is probably more like twice that, but then that $8 * 60 figure is nowhere nearly sufficient to cover the cost of renting, and not a tiny fraction of the cost to me in time trying to find content. Multipy by 30 years or so, and your math is closer to correct. That's around $2900, but it doesn't meet my needs effectively.



Bigg said:


> Where did all that stuff come from?


Almost all of it was recorded by the TiVos. A little bit is ripped from DVDs or BluRays. A handful I authored myself.



Bigg said:


> You should try being more engaged in what's going on in the world...


Why? Exactly what benefit has being engaged in the world lent you? What difference will the effort you have spent in being so engaged make in 20 years? In 40 years? What effect will your engagement allow you to have on the world's existence on any time frame - outside the people you know personally?



Bigg said:


> Any of those aren't that interesting to sit there and watch, and it is easy to absorb everything they are saying while doing something else.


No, it is not. It is also not possible to do something else properly, efficiently, and effectively while being distracted by TV, or anything else, for that matter.



Bigg said:


> But I watch them while I'm doing laundry, dishes


I fail to imagine how one could watch TV while doing laundry, unless one has a TV in the laundry room, and ditto washing dishes unless one has a TV in the kitchen. I do not. For me, it is a moot point in any case, because my housekeeper does those things.



Bigg said:


> preparing food


One of the last things I would ever allow myself from which to be distracted is prepapring food. At worst, it could be extremely dangerous. At best, one will tend to wind up with lousy food. When I am cooking, I am cooking. Nothing else. When I am watching TV, I m watching TV. Nothing else. When I drive a car, I drive a car. Nothing else. When I am on the phone, I am on the phone. Nothing else. When I am writing code, I write code. Nothing else. I do not cook, watch TV, write code, or drive while on the phone. I do not have the TV on when I am doing anything else.



Bigg said:


> making lunch for the next day, etc.


I rarely ever prepare food for the next day. If I prepare food, it is for immediate consumption unless I am preparing for a trip or a picnic, or if the food itself takes several days to be ready. My goulash, for example, is best not eaten until at least two days after it is cooked.

The bottom line is this, whatever I do is not worth doing unless it has essentially 100% of my attention, whether it is as simple as brushing my teeth, or as complex as designing a network.


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> LOL - this thread's getting weirder (if that's possible.)


Fair enough, but is it enlightening, or at least entertaining?


----------



## lrhorer

Then we of different viewpoints have been of service, and I, at least, am content.


----------



## Bigg

timckelley said:


> IIRC my NAS, including its 6 TB, cost somewhere around $400, and I would hope it lasts considerably longer than 5 years.


lrhorer's 99TB has to cost a bit more than that... Even with cheap PC hardware, doing ~100TB is going to be close to $10k assuming large RAID 6 arrays.



terpfan1980 said:


> I think you might want to update to note that you are talking about TB, not GB.


Hah, I read right over that.



Fofer said:


> LOL. You're a very good husband, Tim. Better than I'd be in that situation, that's for sure. :up:


I'd have to say that's a pretty good excuse to get WAF on building giant RAID arrays and putting them on the network!



lrhorer said:


> I don't have a NAS. I have several servers in my house. Two of them are more than 10 years old, one of which is serving video. I expect both (with upgrades, of course - neither has many of their original components, even today) to last until my death.


Ok, even more expensive. Even if you're keeping old hardware alive, eventually it will get out of hand maintenance wise, and you also have to get new drives every few years, not only to keep up with capacity, but because they start to fail.



lrhorer said:


> The servers are necessary, quite apart from one of them having as part of its duties holding and serving video data. Actually coming up with a correct number for the total cost would be very difficult. At a minimum it is 8 drives * $150 per drive, or $1200. It is probably more like twice that, but then that $8 * 60 figure is nowhere nearly sufficient to cover the cost of renting, and not a tiny fraction of the cost to me in time trying to find content. Multipy by 30 years or so, and your math is closer to correct. That's around $2900, but it doesn't meet my needs effectively.


You have to look at it over the reasonable life of the servers. Computer hardware doesn't last 30 years. You could keep getting old hardware, and even if it's so old that it's really cheap, you're still going to have a cost to acquiring and maintaining it. Plus, the electric bills for any NAS/server system will be significant.



lrhorer said:


> Almost all of it was recorded by the TiVos. A little bit is ripped from DVDs or BluRays. A handful I authored myself.


Holy crap. Digital hoarding to an extreme!



lrhorer said:


> Why? Exactly what benefit has being engaged in the world lent you? What difference will the effort you have spent in being so engaged make in 20 years? In 40 years? What effect will your engagement allow you to have on the world's existence on any time frame - outside the people you know personally?


So that I can live an educated life, and know what's going on around me, and in the country. And so that I can have an intelligent discussion with other people about current issues, and really know what's going on.



lrhorer said:


> No, it is not. It is also not possible to do something else properly, efficiently, and effectively while being distracted by TV, or anything else, for that matter.


If I take a 10% productivity hit for watching TV, that's a fantastic trade-off to make. I would dread doing anything in the kitchen without TV and podcasts to listen to, so nothing would get done. If you take the 10% performance hit, combined with doing two things at once, you effectively gain 80-90%. Sounds like a good compromise to me.



lrhorer said:


> I fail to imagine how one could watch TV while doing laundry, unless one has a TV in the laundry room, and ditto washing dishes unless one has a TV in the kitchen. I do not. For me, it is a moot point in any case, because my housekeeper does those things.


Excuse me and my sub-1% salary. I'm probably in the top 5-10%, not the top 1%. I have a TV in the kitchen, and I fold laundry on my bed, where I have a computer screen where I can stream or watch torrented shows.



lrhorer said:


> One of the last things I would ever allow myself from which to be distracted is prepapring food. At worst, it could be extremely dangerous. At best, one will tend to wind up with lousy food. When I am cooking, I am cooking. Nothing else. When I am watching TV, I m watching TV. Nothing else. When I drive a car, I drive a car. Nothing else. When I am on the phone, I am on the phone. Nothing else. When I am writing code, I write code. Nothing else. I do not cook, watch TV, write code, or drive while on the phone. I do not have the TV on when I am doing anything else.


There's not much to mess up while cooking, unless you're just being a klutz. Driving, yes, I put a podcast on and leave the phone alone, since I am sharing a road with other people.



lrhorer said:


> I rarely ever prepare food for the next day. If I prepare food, it is for immediate consumption unless I am preparing for a trip or a picnic, or if the food itself takes several days to be ready. My goulash, for example, is best not eaten until at least two days after it is cooked.
> 
> The bottom line is this, whatever I do is not worth doing unless it has essentially 100% of my attention, whether it is as simple as brushing my teeth, or as complex as designing a network.


Apparently you and your 1% money doesn't have to make your own lunch, but I do, so it has to be done the night before so that it's ready in the morning. If I didn't have TV to listen to while preparing food, I would never prepare any food, and I'd get really fat from ordering take-out, and my kitchen would be slovenly, unlike the neat, clean, well-ordered place that it is now.


----------



## steve614

lrhorer said:


> For me, it is a moot point in any case, because my housekeeper does those things.


Where's that "Oh, SNAP" photo that's been floating around?


----------



## mattack

Fofer said:


> If a show isn't watched for more than 5 years, do you honestly think your wife is going to go back into the archives on the NAS and watch it? Really?


I admit it's not the same thing at all, but I had a movie on my netflix queue for I think around 10 years before actually watching it (the 13th floor).

I have watched some tivoed stuff *years* after watching it. Not 5 though, I don't think.. only because my S3 drive (and the S3) died.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> lrhorer's 99TB has to cost a bit more than that... Even with cheap PC hardware, doing ~100TB is going to be close to $10k assuming large RAID 6 arrays.


First of all, my arrays are nowhere near 100T. That was the other poster. My largest array at the moment boasts 18T of available storage, 24T of media. Secondly, a large array does not cost quite that much. If one employs consumer grade media (which works fine for non-commercial purposes), drive space is under $50 per TB, and array chassis plus controllers are available for about $60 per spindle. A 20 drive chassis fully loaded with 3T drives runs about $4200, and delivers between 51T and 60T of storage with moderate to no redundancy. Loaded with 4T drives, it will deliver between 68T and 80T for about $7000. I expect that number to drop below $5500 later this year. I would not be at all surprised if by Christmas a 100T array employing 4T spindles with 4 parity drives can be had for under $8000, or with no redundancy for around $7000. An array employing 3T spindles can be had for that right now. That said, I am not planning to grow any of my arrays beyond 32T of storage any time this year, and maybe not beyond 24T.



Bigg said:


> Ok, even more expensive. Even if you're keeping old hardware alive, eventually it will get out of hand maintenance wise, and you also have to get new drives every few years, not only to keep up with capacity, but because they start to fail.


Of course. The same is true of desktop PCs and DVRs. I imagine more than half of the Premieres out there are upgrade purchases.



Bigg said:


> You have to look at it over the reasonable life of the servers. Computer hardware doesn't last 30 years.


Yes, it does in some cases. At work I manage more than 50 hard drive based controllers whose drives have been spinning continuously since the early to middle 1990s.



Bigg said:


> You could keep getting old hardware, and even if it's so old that it's really cheap, you're still going to have a cost to acquiring and maintaining it. Plus, the electric bills for any NAS/server system will be significant.


True, but then so is a monthly fee for online rentals for the reminder of my life. The most important point, which you continuously avoid, however, is that the storage pool of any rental service is maintained by someone else. The most unacceptable thing about Netflix et al is their pathetic selection. The second most important point is that most of the selection is a mound of garbage, and I would have to wade through that mound continuously to make use of it. On my server, virtually every single show is something I will enjoy watching at some point in time, and the vast majority I will enjoy again, and again, and again. Just last night my sister and I watched Little Man Tate and Finian's Rainbow. It was her first time to see Little Man Tate, and my fourth. I've watched Finian's Rainbow at least ten times. Both look to be available only on DVD: no HD and no streaming, AFAICT. So much for the usefulness of Netflix.



Bigg said:


> Holy crap. Digital hoarding to an extreme!


Don't be moronic. Hoarding implies collecting large numbers of items which will never see use, and it usually connotes indiscriminate collecting. Apparently you think anyone who has a library is hoarding. I have a modest book library, as well as a moderate film library. I enjoy - and occasionally employ - selections from both on a very regular basis. Almost none of the selections in either one will never see use by me again, unless I get hit by a bus in the next few weeks or something.



Bigg said:


> So that I can live an educated life


That is certainly not the way to do it. To live an educated life, you need to seek the content of a library, but apparently you find that something only a hoarder will do. An education implies useful knowledge, not reams of useless trivia. If it isn't going to be useful and important ten years from now, then it is just frivolous noise. What's worse, the so-called news is rarely, if ever, even useful at all, even today. Mostly it is nothing but sensationalist crap about what talentless starlet cheated on what spoiled movie star, or what prima donna sports star is demanding how many $millions per year.

Take the O.J. Simpson trial, for example. For the better part of a year, it dominated nearly every newscast. It was an almost completely irrelevant event that deserved nothing more than a 50 word sentence on page 20 of a Los Angeles newspaper. The fact the trial itself should have lasted no more than a week is another matter.



Bigg said:


> and know what's going on around me, and in the country.


If you think the news does that, then you are a fool. It is very unlikely that any given news feature concerns anyone or anything that will ever impact you personally, and even on those rare occasions, it is absolutely certain that the matter will not be given any in-depth treatment.



Bigg said:


> And so that I can have an intelligent discussion with other people about current issues


That is mostly an oxymoron. It is all but impossible to have an intelligent discussion of a current issue. An intelligent discussion for the most part can only be the result of weeks, months, or perhaps even years of research. In any case, I have more than plenty of material for lively and intelligent discussion to fill several lifetimes contained in the works of Galileo, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, William Shakespeare, Sophocles, George Bernard Shaw, Thomas Payne, Vincent van Gogh, Leonardo da Vinci, Piers Anthony, Arthur Conan Doyle, J.K. Rowling and dozens of others represented in my book library, not to mention the nearly 2000 movies and TV series episodes in my film library without having to resort to prattle about Charlie Sheen's most recent meltdown or what some congressman did to one of his interns behind the Lincoln Memorial.



Bigg said:


> and really know what's going on.


You won't find that on any TV, or even in any newspaper. You will only find that which is sensational, which rarely has anything to do with the actual events of import. Most truly important events are boring, and the bulk of all the actual mechanics are not even important taken as an individual event. On person starting their car in the morning has almost no impact at all on anything, but the better part of a billion people starting their cars every morning has a far more reaching impact on you, me, and everyone else than an attempted assassination on some idiot of an elected official. "What is going on" is tens of billions of individual little acts that add up to a sort of momentum beyond the ability of any person to change, or even to comprehend.



Bigg said:


> If I take a 10% productivity hit for watching TV, that's a fantastic trade-off to make.


Usually it is more like a 250% hit. Depending on the task, not only will it take far longer to do both together than it would to concentrate on a single task, the more important aspect is the quality of both.



Bigg said:


> I would dread doing anything in the kitchen without TV and podcasts to listen to, so nothing would get done. If you take the 10% performance hit, combined with doing two things at once, you effectively gain 80-90%. Sounds like a good compromise to me.


Many people make that mistake, and then wonder why they have little free time and why they obtain such poor results.



Bigg said:


> Excuse me and my sub-1% salary. I'm probably in the top 5-10%, not the top 1%.


I don't really know, but I doubt I am in the top 5%.



Bigg said:


> There's not much to mess up while cooking, unless you're just being a klutz.


It sounds to me like you haven't done much cooking. First of all, handling ultra-sharp knives and other cooking utensils requires strict concentration, or else an accident is likely. Of course, in my case, my paralysis definitely does not help, so I must concentrate more than the average person or risk very serious injury. I will say that in over 40 years of cooking for myself, I have never had more than a minor cut, and very few of those. I know a number of people of which this is not true.

More to the point, however, being an effective cook requires careful scheduling of each element of the meal. Failure to plan and watch the clock can result in parts of the meal being inappropriately cold or too hot. Some foods can burn in a matter of just seconds if one is not paying attention. Just the other day I made a mistake and did the mashed potatoes too early, so that by the time they reached the table, they were beginning to get stiff, while my mad rush to get the roast cooked caused it to be unevenly done.



Bigg said:


> Driving, yes, I put a podcast on and leave the phone alone, since I am sharing a road with other people.


Listening to a podcast or similar distraction has been shown to be the equivalent of DUI. Even listening to music impairs one's driving abilities.


----------



## murgatroyd

lrhorer said:


> The most important point, which you continuously avoid, however, is that the storage pool of any rental service is maintained by someone else. The most unacceptable thing about Netflix et al is their pathetic selection. The second most important point is that most of the selection is a mound of garbage, and I would have to wade through that mound continuously to make use of it. On my server, virtually every single show is something I will enjoy watching at some point in time, and the vast majority I will enjoy again, and again, and again.
> ...
> Hoarding implies collecting large numbers of items which will never see use, and it usually connotes indiscriminate collecting. Apparently you think anyone who has a library is hoarding. I have a modest book library, as well as a moderate film library. I enjoy - and occasionally employ - selections from both on a very regular basis. Almost none of the selections in either one will never see use by me again, unless I get hit by a bus in the next few weeks or something.
> ...
> To live an educated life, you need to seek the content of a library, but apparently you find that something only a hoarder will do.


Hear, hear!

The whole point of having one's own library and/or collection is that the books/movies/music etc. in the library are matched to one's own taste, and not the taste of what is commercially popular.

Many people assume that if they want something "they can just find it at the library" (or Netflix, or whatever other service), totally oblivious to the fact that even the local public library can only keep so much, and what they keep will be decided on primarily by how much it circulates.

If your own favorite item is obscure, you can't count on some other library having it. The best thing to do is to own one's own copy.

This is a simple fact, apparently impossible to grasp by the people who float along consuming current content and nothing else.

There is nothing wrong with choosing to partake of only current content, and I understand why commercial content providers are forced to act the way they do, but IMHO in the private sphere, it is ill-mannered to dictate to others what they should be watching / reading / hearing, or what they should choose to own.

It is especially puzzling because in so many other areas, people refuse to hire professional services (e.g. plumbers, electricians), preferring to do the work themselves. But apparently this do-it-yourself mentality doesn't apply when I perform the professional services for myself which I know how to do (e.g. acquisitions librarian).


----------



## Bigg

lrhorer said:


> First of all, my arrays are nowhere near 100T. That was the other poster. My largest array at the moment boasts 18T of available storage, 24T of media. Secondly, a large array does not cost quite that much. If one employs consumer grade media (which works fine for non-commercial purposes), drive space is under $50 per TB, and array chassis plus controllers are available for about $60 per spindle. A 20 drive chassis fully loaded with 3T drives runs about $4200, and delivers between 51T and 60T of storage with moderate to no redundancy. Loaded with 4T drives, it will deliver between 68T and 80T for about $7000. I expect that number to drop below $5500 later this year. I would not be at all surprised if by Christmas a 100T array employing 4T spindles with 4 parity drives can be had for under $8000, or with no redundancy for around $7000. An array employing 3T spindles can be had for that right now. That said, I am not planning to grow any of my arrays beyond 32T of storage any time this year, and maybe not beyond 24T.


I must have confused you with another poster. My prices were correct, however, I looked them up on Newegg based off of 3TB WD drives running in RAID 6, IIRC.



lrhorer said:


> Of course. The same is true of desktop PCs and DVRs. I imagine more than half of the Premieres out there are upgrade purchases.
> 
> Yes, it does in some cases. At work I manage more than 50 hard drive based controllers whose drives have been spinning continuously since the early to middle 1990s.


That's getting close to 20 years with enterprise grade hardware, not 30 with consumer grade hardware.



lrhorer said:


> True, but then so is a monthly fee for online rentals for the reminder of my life. The most important point, which you continuously avoid, however, is that the storage pool of any rental service is maintained by someone else. The most unacceptable thing about Netflix et al is their pathetic selection. The second most important point is that most of the selection is a mound of garbage, and I would have to wade through that mound continuously to make use of it. On my server, virtually every single show is something I will enjoy watching at some point in time, and the vast majority I will enjoy again, and again, and again. Just last night my sister and I watched Little Man Tate and Finian's Rainbow. It was her first time to see Little Man Tate, and my fourth. I've watched Finian's Rainbow at least ten times. Both look to be available only on DVD: no HD and no streaming, AFAICT. So much for the usefulness of Netflix.


Then go somewhere else. There are tons of options for streaming, and even then, you can't possible watch it all. The concept of re-watching content in this day and age doesn't make any sense either, there's so much new content out there all the time that there's no reason to re-watch most things, other than a few legendary movies, which are easily available everywhere.



lrhorer said:


> Don't be moronic. Hoarding implies collecting large numbers of items which will never see use, and it usually connotes indiscriminate collecting. Apparently you think anyone who has a library is hoarding. I have a modest book library, as well as a moderate film library. I enjoy - and occasionally employ - selections from both on a very regular basis. Almost none of the selections in either one will never see use by me again, unless I get hit by a bus in the next few weeks or something.


There is no realistic usage case for even a few TB of TV shows, thus it is hoarding. Certainly not to the extent where it ruins your life like those crazy shows on TLC and A&E, but more like a lot of people's garages and attics, a bunch of crap they're never going to use but still keep around. A certain collection is normal, but not RAID array after RAID array full of the crap.



lrhorer said:


> That is certainly not the way to do it. To live an educated life, you need to seek the content of a library, but apparently you find that something only a hoarder will do. An education implies useful knowledge, not reams of useless trivia. If it isn't going to be useful and important ten years from now, then it is just frivolous noise. What's worse, the so-called news is rarely, if ever, even useful at all, even today. Mostly it is nothing but sensationalist crap about what talentless starlet cheated on what spoiled movie star, or what prima donna sports star is demanding how many $millions per year.
> 
> Take the O.J. Simpson trial, for example. For the better part of a year, it dominated nearly every newscast. It was an almost completely irrelevant event that deserved nothing more than a 50 word sentence on page 20 of a Los Angeles newspaper. The fact the trial itself should have lasted no more than a week is another matter.


I'm talking about current political and social events that are important. I like to stay educated on what's going on in the world.



lrhorer said:


> If you think the news does that, then you are a fool. It is very unlikely that any given news feature concerns anyone or anything that will ever impact you personally, and even on those rare occasions, it is absolutely certain that the matter will not be given any in-depth treatment.


The state of the US economy and political system of course impacts everyone. However, if you go by a strict definition of only things that directly impact you, you will quickly become an ignorant person with no intellectual curiosity. That's a horrible, pathetic existence. People who have intelligence and intelectual curiosity will read and learn about things that they won't do or see or places they won't go, but still gain from the experience.



lrhorer said:


> That is mostly an oxymoron. It is all but impossible to have an intelligent discussion of a current issue. An intelligent discussion for the most part can only be the result of weeks, months, or perhaps even years of research. In any case, I have more than plenty of material for lively and intelligent discussion to fill several lifetimes contained in the works of Galileo, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, William Shakespeare, Sophocles, George Bernard Shaw, Thomas Payne, Vincent van Gogh, Leonardo da Vinci, Piers Anthony, Arthur Conan Doyle, J.K. Rowling and dozens of others represented in my book library, not to mention the nearly 2000 movies and TV series episodes in my film library without having to resort to prattle about Charlie Sheen's most recent meltdown or what some congressman did to one of his interns behind the Lincoln Memorial.


The world moves at a faster pace than that. I like to be able to have an intelligent conversation about things on a daily or weekly basis, not years later.



lrhorer said:


> You won't find that on any TV, or even in any newspaper. You will only find that which is sensational, which rarely has anything to do with the actual events of import. Most truly important events are boring, and the bulk of all the actual mechanics are not even important taken as an individual event. On person starting their car in the morning has almost no impact at all on anything, but the better part of a billion people starting their cars every morning has a far more reaching impact on you, me, and everyone else than an attempted assassination on some idiot of an elected official. "What is going on" is tens of billions of individual little acts that add up to a sort of momentum beyond the ability of any person to change, or even to comprehend.


Not on the evening news. However, ironically the fake news shows dig into a lot of real issues much deeper than the real news, Rachel Maddow does a good job on the purely political side of things, and PBS shows also do a great job of topically discussing things in depth.



lrhorer said:


> Usually it is more like a 250% hit. Depending on the task, not only will it take far longer to do both together than it would to concentrate on a single task, the more important aspect is the quality of both.


I'm sorry, but I'm not retarded. I can wash dishes, prepare food, or fold laundry while comprehending what is on my TV. So can most other people.



lrhorer said:


> Many people make that mistake, and then wonder why they have little free time and why they obtain such poor results.


It's not a mistake. If I did things linearly, instead of in parallel, I would either do many fewer things (like watch/listen to shows about current events) or I would just about never sleep, and would be totally ineffective at everything.



lrhorer said:


> I don't really know, but I doubt I am in the top 5%.


If you weren't, you wouldn't be able to really afford a housekeeper.



lrhorer said:


> It sounds to me like you haven't done much cooking. First of all, handling ultra-sharp knives and other cooking utensils requires strict concentration, or else an accident is likely. Of course, in my case, my paralysis definitely does not help, so I must concentrate more than the average person or risk very serious injury. I will say that in over 40 years of cooking for myself, I have never had more than a minor cut, and very few of those. I know a number of people of which this is not true.


I don't really cook much, but I do a decent amount of food prep and cleaning and whatnot in the kitchen. However, I'm not an idiot, I can handle a knife just fine while listening to Jon Stewart or Rachel Maddow. If you have issues handling knives, then you shouldn't be handling them in the first place.



lrhorer said:


> More to the point, however, being an effective cook requires careful scheduling of each element of the meal. Failure to plan and watch the clock can result in parts of the meal being inappropriately cold or too hot. Some foods can burn in a matter of just seconds if one is not paying attention. Just the other day I made a mistake and did the mashed potatoes too early, so that by the time they reached the table, they were beginning to get stiff, while my mad rush to get the roast cooked caused it to be unevenly done.


There's more leeway than that. Yes, it does require some planning. Which has nothing to do with also listening to/watching a show at the same time.



lrhorer said:


> Listening to a podcast or similar distraction has been shown to be the equivalent of DUI. Even listening to music impairs one's driving abilities.


So the radio, which everyone listens to while they drive, is a horrendous distraction? Give me a break. That's absurd. I'm a better driver while I'm listening to a podcast, as my mind isn't wandering all over the place, and I don't drive nearly as fast (although speed and safety have a limited connection other than KE = .5mv^2).



murgatroyd said:


> Hear, hear!
> 
> The whole point of having one's own library and/or collection is that the books/movies/music etc. in the library are matched to one's own taste, and not the taste of what is commercially popular.


You're acting as if everything that comes out is off the market within months or a few years. That's absurd and completely untrue. The amount of consumer choice has never been higher, and you can find a massive selection of content available on demand between your MSO, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, VUDU, and the like. More than anyone can watch. If you really need to find something obscure late, someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale.


----------



## murgatroyd

Bigg said:


> Then go somewhere else. There are tons of options for streaming, and even then, you can't possible watch it all. The concept of re-watching content in this day and age doesn't make any sense either, there's so much new content out there all the time that there's no reason to re-watch most things, other than a few legendary movies, which are easily available everywhere.
> 
> You're acting as if everything that comes out is off the market within months or a few years. That's absurd and completely untrue. The amount of consumer choice has never been higher, and you can find a massive selection of content available on demand between your MSO, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, VUDU, and the like. More than anyone can watch. If you really need to find something obscure late, someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale.


In short, you are completely clueless.

#1: It's no business of yours if I want to re-watch content that I own. "No reason *for you* to re-watch things" does not equal "no reason to watch".

You prefer new content. Bully for you. Go watch new content. Don't dictate to other people what they should watch.

#2: IMHO streaming video over the net, for content which is available on physical media, is a colossal waste of bandwidth.

#3: How do you expect "someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale" if we can't buy it in the first place, because owning our own physical media is being a hoarder? Where do you think secondhand copies come from? Someone has to buy them first or they won't be on the resale market later.


----------



## Bigg

murgatroyd said:


> In short, you are completely clueless.
> 
> #1: It's no business of yours if I want to re-watch content that I own. "No reason *for you* to re-watch things" does not equal "no reason to watch".
> 
> You prefer new content. Bully for you. Go watch new content. Don't dictate to other people what they should watch.
> 
> #2: IMHO streaming video over the net, for content which is available on physical media, is a colossal waste of bandwidth.
> 
> #3: How do you expect "someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale" if we can't buy it in the first place, because owning our own physical media is being a hoarder? Where do you think secondhand copies come from? Someone has to buy them first or they won't be on the resale market later.


I didn't say owning any media at all was being a hoarder, I said keeping absurd amounts of content around is being a hoarder.

It's not a waste of bandwidth at all. It's putting bandwidth to good use. Considering the internet runs on 40gbps and now now 100gbps connection, I don't think it's going to run out of bandwidth anytime soon.

If you're just sitting around watching the same thing over and over, you're not experiencing what else is out there. That and it's generally boring.


----------



## murgatroyd

Bigg said:


> I didn't say owning any media at all was being a hoarder, I said keeping absurd amounts of content around is being a hoarder.


Absurd amounts of content -- according to you. Who made you arbiter elegantiae?

You can't argue that it's okay to stream video because the Internet is an unlimited resource, but wag your finger at other people and say they have too much stuff. If there's no ration book for you, what gives you the right to impose rationing on other people?



Bigg said:


> If you're just sitting around watching the same thing over and over, you're not experiencing what else is out there.


And if you are multitasking while you watch, you aren't paying attention, and you haven't really seen it. So you aren't experiencing what is out there at all, or only getting some small percentage.

Just because you have a short attention span, and can't even pay attention to your "new" content when you watch it, is no reason to slam other people who prefer to watch theirs in a different manner than you do.


----------



## jcthorne

lrhorer said:


> Then we of different viewpoints have been of service, and I, at least, am content.


While I do not always agree with your points of view, I ALWAYS read them as I find them well reasoned and engaging.

As for the comment about being engaged in the world... I guess it depends on which PART of the world. You seem very engaged in some aspects. This fourm as an example. You just seem to choose those parts of interest to you rather than let society dictate what you should be engaged in. I find that refreshing.


----------



## dlfl

Fofer said:


> LOL - this thread's getting weirder (if that's possible.)





lrhorer said:


> ........
> I fail to imagine how one could watch TV while doing laundry, unless one has a TV in the laundry room, and ditto washing dishes unless one has a TV in the kitchen. I do not. For me, it is a moot point in any case, because my housekeeper does those things.
> ..............


 I see a concept here, for a new thread even "better" than this one, titled:

"*Housekeeper won't delete recordings*".


----------



## Bigg

murgatroyd said:


> Absurd amounts of content -- according to you. Who made you arbiter elegantiae?
> 
> You can't argue that it's okay to stream video because the Internet is an unlimited resource, but wag your finger at other people and say they have too much stuff. If there's no ration book for you, what gives you the right to impose rationing on other people?


That comparison makes no sense. I'm not advocating streaming 24/7 either. Ridiculous amount of content relative to how much time a person would have to watch it.



murgatroyd said:


> And if you are multitasking while you watch, you aren't paying attention, and you haven't really seen it. So you aren't experiencing what is out there at all, or only getting some small percentage.
> 
> Just because you have a short attention span, and can't even pay attention to your "new" content when you watch it, is no reason to slam other people who prefer to watch theirs in a different manner than you do.


That also makes no sense. If I had all the time in the world, I'd sit there and watch it, but I don't. The vast majority of the information on those shows isn't visual, it's audio, so an occasional glance at the screen gets you 98% of the way there.

Who said I have a short attention span? NO ONE. Because I don't. So don't imply ridiculous things.



jcthorne said:


> While I do not always agree with your points of view, I ALWAYS read them as I find them well reasoned and engaging.
> 
> As for the comment about being engaged in the world... I guess it depends on which PART of the world. You seem very engaged in some aspects. This fourm as an example. You just seem to choose those parts of interest to you rather than let society dictate what you should be engaged in. I find that refreshing.


That's assuming that by ignoring certain parts of society, they aren't important, which is patently false. Technology and politics are two things that everyone should be well versed on, and unfortunately, most people in this country aren't.



dlfl said:


> I see a concept here, for a new thread even "better" than this one, titled:
> 
> "*Housekeeper won't delete recordings*".


LOL

Your post did not say a single thing that had any logic to it.


----------



## Turtleboy

As long as you have the physical storage space for it. As an adult, I've always lived in one bedroom (or smaller) apartments. I don't have a lot of space for a lot of stuff.


----------



## dlfl

Bigg said:


> ........That also makes no sense. If I had all the time in the world, I'd sit there and watch it, but I don't. The vast majority of the information on those shows isn't visual, it's audio, so an occasional glance at the screen gets you 98% of the way there.
> ..........


I see a new niche market here for "*occasional glance*" cable TV, one that would require less than 10% of the bandwidth that digital HD channels do now, thus allowing the inherent unreliability of Tuning Adapters to be dispensed with. A HD Video snapshot would be transmitted perhaps once every several seconds. (A more advanced version would sense when the viewer's eyeballs were aimed at the TV screen and provide on-demand snapshots.)

Carrying the concept even further would lead to "*audio only*" TV. Oh... I guess that was invented about 100 years ago. Actually, back in the days of TV being only channels 2-13 OTA I had an audio only TV set, err.. radio.

Please consider the above ideas with all the gravity that should pertain to this august thread.


----------



## timckelley

My wife hasn't had time yet to read my user doc on pyTiVo, but today I did use some advice given to me by the author himself to set her up so that she can use her laptop to access pyTiVo.

I kind of worry that once she eventually loses her dependence on my assistance to get her shows moved, that she might start going to town archiving shows. I want our NAS to last a good while before filling up, as I shelled out $500 for it.

To be fair, I've wanted an NAS for other reasons, but one is enough in my book.

Btw yesterday, I attached our laser printer to the NAS, effectively making it a network printer. That was nice.


----------



## murgatroyd

Turtleboy said:


> As long as you have the physical storage space for it. As an adult, I've always lived in one bedroom (or smaller) apartments. I don't have a lot of space for a lot of stuff.


That's not the issue, TB. The issue is that someone else's stuff is not your problem. I don't see why it's anybody's business how big a server someone has, and how many files they have on it. It's their stuff. It's not your stuff. It's not in your way. It's not preventing you from getting to your own stuff.

As a matter of fact, if someone owns their own server or their own physical media, they have done the OPPOSITE of getting in your way to get to your stuff. If they watch their own copies instead of habitually streaming over the net, they aren't hogging bandwidth, and people who are doing more important stuff on the net than watching TV (e.g. you, blogging about legal stuff), can do it more easily.

Edit: for the record, I keep far fewer shows now than I did when I had to rely on videotape to timeshift.


----------



## lrhorer

jcthorne said:


> While I do not always agree with your points of view


Of course you don't. If you did, then you would either be a sycophant, or me. I'm not sure which idea I find more disturbing. 

Fortunately, for all of us, you are neither.



jcthorne said:


> I ALWAYS read them as I find them well reasoned and engaging.


Thank you for the kind words. I do try to put some thought into the things I say. It would be disrespectful of the readers here and embarrassing to myself not to at least make the attempt.



jcthorne said:


> As for the comment about being engaged in the world... I guess it depends on which PART of the world. You seem very engaged in some aspects.


I took his sentence to mean current and popular events, and assuming the interpretation is correct, he is right. I could not possibly care less about what is popular and I care very little of what is current unless it is likely to have far reaching and highly fundamental impacts, or unless it actually and seriously impacts me or the ones I love. What someone in Los Angeles, or for that matter across town from me does is none of my business, and he or she is free to do it without comment or judgement - or any concern whatsoever - by be.

It's called being free and independent. I don't know. Perhaps in some measure it is an occupational hazard for those of us who spend much of our time contemplating the vastness of the cosmos, its beginning, its fundamental nature, and its end. That is of course assuming I interpreted his position correctly. If his comment about his own educational status was meant to imply I am uneducated in any sense, then I am compelled to respond he is very sadly mistaken.



jcthorne said:


> This fourm as an example. You just seem to choose those parts of interest to you rather than let society dictate what you should be engaged in.


Well, there is also a matter of how much time I have to spend on such things. It forces me to be somewhat selective, and if I am going to spend my time without recompense, I see no reason to select that which does not interest me over that which does. I most certainly hope, however, that your assessment of my main motivations is accurate. I fervently hope I don't march to the beat of any drummer, least of all one chose cadence is dictated by a popular vote.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> ...then you would either be a sycophant, or me. I'm not sure which idea I find more disturbing...


Do the rest of us get to vote on that?


----------



## Bigg

dlfl said:


> I see a new niche market here for "*occasional glance*" cable TV, one that would require less than 10% of the bandwidth that digital HD channels do now, thus allowing the inherent unreliability of Tuning Adapters to be dispensed with. A HD Video snapshot would be transmitted perhaps once every several seconds. (A more advanced version would sense when the viewer's eyeballs were aimed at the TV screen and provide on-demand snapshots.)
> 
> Carrying the concept even further would lead to "*audio only*" TV. Oh... I guess that was invented about 100 years ago. Actually, back in the days of TV being only channels 2-13 OTA I had an audio only TV set, err.. radio.
> 
> Please consider the above ideas with all the gravity that should pertain to this august thread.


Some people might like to sit down and watch the Daily Show or the Colbert Report, so I don't think that would work very well. Same for the MSNBC talk shows, although I highly doubt that a majority of the people consuming them are actually sitting there watching and doing nothing else.



timckelley said:


> My wife hasn't had time yet to read my user doc on pyTiVo, but today I did use some advice given to me by the author himself to set her up so that she can use her laptop to access pyTiVo.
> 
> I kind of worry that once she eventually loses her dependence on my assistance to get her shows moved, that she might start going to town archiving shows. I want our NAS to last a good while before filling up, as I shelled out $500 for it.
> 
> To be fair, I've wanted an NAS for other reasons, but one is enough in my book.
> 
> Btw yesterday, I attached our laser printer to the NAS, effectively making it a network printer. That was nice.


Well, then you'd have an excuse to build a giant FreeNAS box with no spousal repercussions!


----------



## lrhorer

dlfl said:


> I see a concept here, for a new thread even "better" than this one, titled:
> 
> "*Housekeeper won't delete recordings*".


It would be an extremely short discussion, I fear. She's afraid to even dust the video systems, let alone learn how to use them. Lord knows why, really. It's not like they are inordinately frail, or that I would yell at her if she accidentally broke something, but while the rest of the house is kept clean and dust free, in order to get her to clean the video stacks, I have to pull out every component and have her dust it while I hold it. Weird.


----------



## ringo->

Take the battery out of her car...


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo.


Why not move the shows to a local PC hard drive? I just checked, and TiVo transfer sees the series 2 just fine. I happened to have a Mac house, but there's PC software to do this. Then she just transfers back to watch. Transfer over wired connection is a bit faster than real time.

This is the cheapest solution with no expense. 
Second TiVo is the second choice. 
A new wife may be better short term, but in the long run may be more expensive.

Disclosure, I have a wife and daughter, each with their own assigned 2 tuners.


----------



## briboi2012

how to you post a question here???


----------



## Turtleboy

murgatroyd said:


> That's not the issue, TB. The issue is that someone else's stuff is not your problem.


Actually, other people's stuff is my problem.


----------



## unitron

Turtleboy said:


> Actually, other people's stuff is my problem.


Yeah, but only when they hire you to worry about it.


----------



## unitron

briboi2012 said:


> how to you post a question here???


If you mean, how do you start a new thread, go here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?

and decide in which forum it would be best for your question to be posted, then click on that forum's title, then when it loads click on where it says "New Thread" (blue thing, on the left, just above the black bar)


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Fofer said:


> Can they ever barter for time on each other's available tuner?


If they want. So far, that's enough for them.


----------



## lrhorer

Bigg said:


> I must have confused you with another poster. My prices were correct, however, I looked them up on Newegg based off of 3TB WD drives running in RAID 6, IIRC.


Then it is your math that is a little off. NewEgg has a 3T WD Green drive right now for $140. A 99T RAID0 array would require 33 spindles, costing $4620. A RAID6 array with 2 parity drives would run $4900. Wit that many drives, one might consider going with 5 parity drives, which would run $5320. A 20 drive enclosure with a drive controller can be had for about $1200. So even with 5 parity drives, one can put together a 99T array for under $7800 at today's pricing using 3T drives. A 99T RAID0 array can be had for just a bit over $7000 in drive costs.

Not only that, but just in the last few days, 4T drive prices have come down considerably. NewEgg now has a 4T drive for $190 with free shipping. That means a 100T RAID0 array will cost about $7150, or RAID6 with 4 parity drives, about $7900. That's not pennies, but it is still well below your $10K estimate.



Bigg said:


> That's getting close to 20 years with enterprise grade hardware, not 30 with consumer grade hardware.


I can count, thanks. The point is, they have lasted 20 years, and only a couple have failed so far. There is no reason to believe most will not last another 10 years, assuming they are still in use.

I do not know for certain whether they are enterprise grade, or not. I suspect they are, but on the other hand, in that application they do not need to be fast or to deliver high throughput, or even need to be particularly robust. They certainly were not fast or of huge capacity for the time.



Bigg said:


> Then go somewhere else. There are tons of options for streaming, and even then, you can't possible watch it all.


You are missing the point entirely. Again, it is not about the volume of the material, it is about its quality and its ease of access. Some nebulous "somewhere else" does not cut the mustard. Please point to an exact source for those two movies available online in a minimum of 1080i resolution with no objectionable artifacts. Then tell me how long it took you to find them *WITHOUT KNOWING THE TITLES BEFOREHAND*. We did not sit down and say, "Let's watch Finian's Rainbow and Little Man Tate tonight. Rather, we browsed the list of movies on the server and chose those two.



Bigg said:


> The concept of re-watching content in this day and age doesn't make any sense either, there's so much new content out there all the time that there's no reason to re-watch most things


That is only true if one is a highly superficial individual, unwilling to derive any meaningful understanding or fulfillment from works of art. It is doubly untrue because the vast majority of content out there is total crap, and not worth watching the first time.



Bigg said:


> other than a few legendary movies, which are easily available everywhere.


Well, let's see...

'Directed by Francis Ford Copola. Well, few people have ever heard of him, I guess, so nothing of legend there.

'Starring some guy named Fred Astaire. Was he in any other films? Oh, yeah, one or two. It seems this was his last one. Nothing of note there, is there? Maybe if they had done some research, they might have found someone who could dance for this film, though.

That Petula Clark girl needs to learn how to sing, and that Don Franks guy has such a grating voice. Tommy Steele needs to learn how to move onstage.

Yeah, I guess you are right. 'Nothing legendary about that film.[/sarcasm]



Bigg said:


> There is no realistic usage case for even a few TB of TV shows, thus it is hoarding.


You simply have no clue whatsoever. My time is highly limited, but even so my family and I have watched at least 200G of content from the server just this month. More importantly, you continue to ignore the main points. Do you go out in the wild and gather all your food? I seriously doubt it. I'm sure like almost everyone else, you go to to a grocery store or supermarket and buy your food all in one place. The fact the supermarket has tens of thousands of times more food than you can ever eat in a lifetime is completely beside the point. You choose a supermarket because of its convenience, its variety of goods, and perhaps its cost. An array of videos offers precisely the same advantages.



Bigg said:


> I'm talking about current political and social events that are important.


Social events are never important in even the tiniest measure. Current political events are only rarely so, and even then there are almost none on which you can have any effect at all, unless you do happen to be in that 1%. One's knowledge or lack thereof has no effect whatsoever on it. What's more, it is almost impossible to determine which events are of actual import until there is a historical content. The actual importance of an event is usually impossible to properly gauge until years or even decades afterwards. We are still learning some details of the actual impact and significance of the bombing of Pearl Harbor, not to mention some of its details.



Bigg said:


> I like to stay educated on what's going on in the world.


Do you really? China is by far the most populous nation on Earth. More than 1.4 billion people are Chinese, which is nearly 20% of the Earth's population. Please give us a brief synopsis of the top 100 most significant political events in China this year, and then tell us what you are going to do about them.

The European union has a significantly higher GDP than the United States. Please provide the same information concerning its economic activities.

I see you live in Hartford, Connecticut. "The world", however, certainly includes the other 49 states. Please provide the 20 most significant legal decisions in each of the other 49 states in the last three months.

Then realize that once you have gathered all that information, you have not garnered even .000001% of "important" events in the last three months.

News stories are not designed to be informative. They are designed to be popular and sensational. The overarching goal of news agencies is not to educate anyone. It is to make money. Admittedly, some are worse about this than others. There is a genuine difference between E! and The Macneil Lehrer Report or between "The National Enquirer" and "The Wall Street Journal", but none of them can possibly do more than scratch the very top surface of world events and they can only take a superficial WAG about the actual importance of anything they report.



Bigg said:


> The state of the US economy and political system of course impacts everyone.


Not so much, really. First of all, the US population only constitutes about 4.5% of the world's total population, and the actual deterministic impact to the other 95.5% of the world is minimal at best. Secondly, even the impact to Americans of the top million or so events is minimal. It is the culmination of billions of events that has an impact. Thirdly, I do not consider economic events of any sort to be particularly important. I have spent considerable parts of my life living in mild poverty and considerable parts of my life being what some would term moderately wealthy. Neither is of importance to me or to who I am. Provided I am not in danger of starving to death or dieing of exposure, how much money I have is not important. It's all small change.



Bigg said:


> However, if you go by a strict definition of only things that directly impact you


I don't believe I ever used the term, "directly impact me". I did say, "Which I can directly impact", which is a *VERY* different thing. I focus most of my energy on the things I can directly control, or at least directly influence.



Bigg said:


> you will quickly become an ignorant person with no intellectual curiosity.


It is to laugh. In 54 years, no one and I mean *NO ONE* has ever accused me of being incurious or ignorant. A few have accused me of being overly curious and a number have accused me of being tiresomely over-educated.



Bigg said:


> That's a horrible, pathetic existence.


Typical of people who seek only superficial information and current events and artwork.



Bigg said:


> People who have intelligence


Few professional engineers and scientists are lacking in intelligence. You were addressing me in your original post, and I certainly do not qualify. That may sound arrogant, but it is an established fact.



Bigg said:


> and intelectual curiosity will read and learn about things that they won't do or see or places they won't go, but still gain from the experience.


Well, I prefer to go and do, and as much as possible, I have. Places I can never go and things I can never do, of course I must read about, or at least study from afar, and I do. I generally limit it to important things, however, not current events.



Bigg said:


> The world moves at a faster pace than that. I like to be able to have an intelligent conversation about things on a daily or weekly basis, not years later.


In that case, you have neither. You are substituting an *UN*intelligent conversation about frivolous events for an intelligent one about significant ones.

I don't intend to be abusive, but your entire discourse positively reeks of superficiality and foppishness. By your statements, you don't extract more than a minimum of information from movies and TV episodes because you only watch them once, and evidently you mostly watch superficial content. You seemingly favor that which is current, superficial, and sensational over that which is substantive. You seek out information that will never be of any use to you other than in conversation.

Conversations are fine. I have them quite often and enjoy them, but life is about doing, not talking.



Bigg said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm not retarded. I can wash dishes, prepare food, or fold laundry while comprehending what is on my TV. So can most other people.


In fact no one can. Any distraction is just that: a distraction. To be sure, there are some activities that require minimal amounts of attention, but I avoid such things as much as possible in the first place. They may not exactly impoverish one's existence, but they certainly do not enrich it, and I most certainly am not going to dilute an edifying experience with unnecessary distractions, even if I could do so effectively. No matter what I choose to undertake, I give it my 100% undivided attention so that I may do the best possible job of it as quickly and effectively as I can.



Bigg said:


> If you weren't, you wouldn't be able to really afford a housekeeper.


As I say, I don't really know or care. My relative economic standing is of absolutely no importance. That said, I think that more than 1 out of every 100 people have a housekeeper, at least part time. If I am wrong about that, however, who really cares?



Bigg said:


> I don't really cook much


I do. Usually at least once a day, and often more on weekends.



Bigg said:


> but I do a decent amount of food prep and cleaning and whatnot in the kitchen. However, I'm not an idiot, I can handle a knife just fine while listening to Jon Stewart or Rachel Maddow. If you have issues handling knives, then you shouldn't be handling them in the first place.


I never said you were an idiot, but anyone who handles a knife or any other dangerous device without giving it 100% of their absolutely undivided attention is indeed an idiot. I did so long prior to my paralysis, and now that I am somewhat crippled, I must be even more careful. I have seen many people injured by improper attention, and I have even seen a couple of people killed by it. (No, I have never seen anyone killed by accidentally mis-handling a knife, but I have certainly seen people cut themselves through inattention.)



Bigg said:


> There's more leeway than that.


Sometimes, but often not. Some of my favorite recipes can be ruined by a mis-timing of less than 30 seconds.



Bigg said:


> Yes, it does require some planning. Which has nothing to do with also listening to/watching a show at the same time.


It's not entirely about planning. It is about paying attention and performing the proper actions at just the proper time during the process. There is a reason restaurants hire sous chefs and regular chefs, as well as an executive chef.



Bigg said:


> So the radio, which everyone listens to while they drive


Not everyone does. I do not, except in rural highways. I really should not, even then.



Bigg said:


> is a horrendous distraction?


Horrendous? No. Deadly? It can be. Any event of which your mind takes note requires processing that takes away from other processes. If you hear the words of a song, a podcast, or a conversation, then your mind is distracted to some extent - perhaps a large one in some cases - from its other duties. A 2008 study by Carnegie Mellon University confirms this, as well as other studies by the U.S DOT and the NTSB.



Bigg said:


> Give me a break. That's absurd. I'm a better driver while I'm listening to a podcast, as my mind isn't wandering all over the place


What I might have to give you is a funeral. The average trip requires a driver to make over 400 decisions per mile. Even during the takeoff and landing phase of a flight on a commercial jetliner, let alone while cruising, a pilot is faced with fewer decisions than a driver of an automobile, yet FAA regulations require absolute silence in the cockpit other than sounds and conversations directly related to the flight from the time the flight checklist is started until the cabin is depressurized and the engines shut down.



Bigg said:


> You're acting as if everything that comes out is off the market within months or a few years.


No, but a large fraction of what I want to watch is. Indeed, much of it was never on the market in the first place, for home consumption.



Bigg said:


> That's absurd and completely untrue. The amount of consumer choice has never been higher


Again, the volume is not of high relevance, other than the fact the volume of crap through which one must wade to find something worth watching is enormous.



Bigg said:


> and you can find a massive selection of content available on demand between your MSO, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, VUDU, and the like.


All of it requiring additional money and a great deal of time and effort. 'Vert tiresome time and effort.



Bigg said:


> More than anyone can watch.


Once again you focus on the truly trite, superficial, and trivial. Just because it is a mountain of garbage, rather than a mole hill, does not make it better.



Bigg said:


> If you really need to find something obscure late, someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale.


So buying it and putting it on a shelf is not hoarding (and yes, I have a few hundred DVDs on the shelf), but obtaining it much less expensively and putting it on a server is?


----------



## Bigg

lrhorer said:


> ...


I stand behind my math. Maybe you can find something a few bucks cheaper, or skimp on something, but the point is, it costs a lot of money.

Expecting consumer grade hardware to last that long is completely nuts. I'm not saying that none of it will, but it's an unrealistic expectation.

If you're just browsing, you've defeated even what really specific use-case you might have had. If you're just browsing, there are tons of cloud-based services out there you can browse.

Wanting to experience new things doesn't make one superficial.

Huh?

Highly time limited and watching 200GB of content don't make any sense together.

If you want to use stupid analogies that don't work then I have to ask why you are demanding to have your own supermarket in your basement?

That's a great attitude- you are only one of many votes, so you should just be ignorant.  Thank god not everyone is that uncaring and ignorant, as the government would be even worse than it is today, taking more and more power unto themselves, like in defense, DHS, CIA, etc, with no one to try to counterbalance.

What? Somehow I have to now be an encyclopedia with photographic memory? You are unbelievably hypocritical and totally unrealistic.

It depends on the news show. Some are sensationalist, others are highly informative, i.e. Rachel Maddow's show that looks at things from a technocratic perspective, and digs up many obscure facts and stories that are important.

And this is why we should all be ignorant why?

That's going to get you to just as much of a narrow, ignorant place as the other way around.

Your attitude here shows you to be highly incurious and ignorant.

If you can't gain something from learning about a place you won't ever travel to, for example, then you are highly ignorant and narrow-minded.

Superficiality and foppishness? You've got to be kidding me. You sound like you're trying to do a poor job at imitating a snobbish intellectual, but you're so ignorant, that you can't pull it off. You seem very selfish in a weird way that cuts you off from a lot of interesting things.

I stand by the fact that I'm not retarded, and I can listen to a talk show and prepare food at the same time.

You've got to be kidding me. You're advocating that no one listen to anything while driving? This is absurd un-logic.

Cloud-based is the easier way to enjoy content. You rent or watch, and you're done. Nothing to store, organize, or maintain.

If you go by the argument that everything out there is garbage, then it's all garbage. You can't, then, argue that you need 10TB or 100TB or garbage, because it's garbage. If you think TV is garbage, then don't watch it, and read a book or something.

Having a reasonable sized collection of physical media is not hoarding. Just like anything else, an excess is. And the whole media server model doesn't work well for converting physical media, as it takes many times more effort to convert it than you will ever gain out of the system.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Bigg said:


> HOLY ****. 99TB? It's not even possible to watch that much!!!


The highest memory usage I see is 9GB/hr for some channels. So just over 100 hrs/TB. Yes, this is basically storing 10,000 hours of video. I'm not judging, just doing the math. Wow.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

lrhorer said:


> But anyone who handles a knife or any other dangerous device without giving it 100% of their absolutely undivided attention is indeed an idiot.


Sometimes there's a gem buried in a thread that goes on a while. Sorry, off-topic, but I am the cook in my house. And when I have the knife in my hand, I concentrate. When the wife or daughter try to talk to me I stop, and tell them this is the time I can't multitask. 
Thank you for confirming my need for 100% concentration isn't just normal, but a safe recommendation.


----------



## timckelley

timckelley said:


> IIRC my NAS, including its 6 TB, cost somewhere around $400 [later post I corrected this to $500], and I would hope it lasts considerably longer than 5 years.


Oh no! I think I installed this NAS a little over 8 months ago, and Windows is reporting that out of a total capacity of 3 TB (it's really 6, but I'm using a 2 disk RAID for redundant data storage, so for practical purposes it's 3), 46.8% is used up! 

At this rate, it will last a total of just under 1.5 years before it gets tapped out, contradicting my post above.  

My wife's shows seem to be growing like a cancer. 

I suppose if necessary, I could buy another NAS, and chalk up my wife's habit as costing $500 every 1.5 years. I suppose there are worse habits.


----------



## bareyb

timckelley said:


> Oh no! I think I installed this NAS a little over 8 months ago, and Windows is reporting that out of a total capacity of 3 TB (it's really 6, but I'm using a 2 disk RAID for redundant data storage, so for practical purposes it's 3), 46.8% is used up!
> 
> At this rate, it will last a total of just under 1.5 years before it gets tapped out, contradicting my post above.
> 
> My wife's shows seem to be growing like a cancer.
> 
> I suppose if necessary, I could buy another NAS, and chalk up my wife's habit as costing $500 every 1.5 years. * I suppose there are worse habits.*


There are definitely more _expensive_ habits, that's for sure. As hobbies go, you're getting off pretty cheap.


----------



## timckelley

Well when I brought this up with her tonight, she did say that at some point, she can look into deleting some archived stuff that she doesn't really need that much. So it sounds like she's subtly admitting she doesn't really need all the shows she's saving.


----------



## JYoung

timckelley said:


> Well when I brought this up with her tonight, she did say that at some point, she can look into deleting some archived stuff that she doesn't really need that much. So it sounds like she's subtly admitting she doesn't really need all the shows she's saving.


I don't think you're understanding how this works.


----------



## murgatroyd

timckelley said:


> Well when I brought this up with her tonight, she did say that at some point, she can look into deleting some archived stuff that she doesn't really need that much. So it sounds like she's subtly admitting she doesn't really need all the shows she's saving.


One of the ways I save on hard disk space is to buy the commercial DVDs for TV shows when one is available. It just doesn't make sense to me to spend a lot of time transferring a show, cutting out the commercials, and burning stuff to a disc, or having the file sit around on my hard disk, when I could just buy DVD, especially for the season sets of TV shows.

Or in other words, if I don't care enough about a show to buy the DVD, there's not much point in archiving it with the TiVo instead. (I also delete far more of the shows I record than I did when I was using a VCR to record things when I was away from home.)

Most of the shows I save rather than delete are things which will never have a commercial DVD.

YMMV.


----------



## terpfan1980

murgatroyd said:


> One of the ways I save on hard disk space is to buy the commercial DVDs for TV shows when one is available. It just doesn't make sense to me to spend a lot of time transferring a show, cutting out the commercials, and burning stuff to a disc, or having the file sit around on my hard disk, when I could just buy DVD, especially for the season sets of TV shows.
> 
> Or in other words, if I don't care enough about a show to buy the DVD, there's not much point in archiving it with the TiVo instead. (I also delete far more of the shows I record than I did when I was using a VCR to record things when I was away from home.)
> 
> Most of the shows I save rather than delete are things which will never have a commercial DVD.
> 
> YMMV.


Tim and/or his wife might also want to just consider using Amazon or Vudu or somewhere similar to buy the series in the cloud. No need to store it on your own media, no need to store it on physical media and simple enough to access it all when necessary.


----------



## murgatroyd

terpfan1980 said:


> Tim and/or his wife might also want to just consider using Amazon or Vudu or somewhere similar to buy the series in the cloud. No need to store it on your own media, no need to store it on physical media and simple enough to access it all when necessary.


That's another option.

If resources are limited, do triage. Save the stuff locally that won't be available by other means.

I especially don't see the point in archiving runs of older TV series off broadcast once they have been cut down in length for syndication. If the DVDs have the original running time, IMO it's much better to have the DVDs.


----------



## timckelley

Buying DVDs is way more expensive than buying NAS's, and my wife seems to have accepted using the NAS in lieu of buying DVDs.


----------



## timckelley

Well, reviewing our NAS, I now find that it's 70% used up. Compared to my last update on this, it looks like my wife has slightly accelerated her usage of the NAS. (I'm also putting files - nonvideo related - of my own on the NAS, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the files that she's putting there.)

She furthermore has told me that with Christmas season approaching, she thinks she's going to record even more stuff soon, causing an even higher rate of disk usage. She seems to be spending our bytes like the federal government spends our dollars. 

Her recommendation is that I already should start shopping for a second NAS, and that I can consider it my Christmas present to her. By the way, we often tell each other what to give for Christmas, so this is fine that she's letting me know what she wants. But it'd've been nice for a $500 piece of storage to last longer than this.

I also keep bringing up the idea of ax-ing Time Warner Cable because of how little I think we get for the money. She keeps waffling on this, and is not close minded, but one thing that bugs her is that if we start getting content from a combination of OTA + Hulu Plus + possibly Netflix or renting from Amazon + miscellaneous other web sources, that it might not be so easy for her to archive stuff.

I told her that, for example, if she likes a show on Hulu Plus but can't archive it (I assume they don't let you do that), that it's okay because she can consider Hulu Plus to be her gigantic archive. Everything's available on demand, so there's no need for a personally stored copy of any of their shows. She still doesn't seem 100% comfortable with that. I guess she might worry whether a show that she'd've otherwise archived in say, 2014, will still be available in 2034 when she might want to watch it again. Who knows what will happen to Hulu Plus by then.


----------



## sushikitten

I'm sure this has been covered but it's been a long time since I have read the thread so... Have you figured out how many hours of TV she has archived and how many days or years it would to take to watch?


----------



## timckelley

sushikitten said:


> I'm sure this has been covered but it's been a long time since I have read the thread so... Have you figured out how many hours of TV she has archived and how many days or years it would to take to watch?


No, I never did that calculation, but I could make a rough guess if something there could tell me how many bytes it takes to record an hour worth. Most of her stuff is recorded at fairly low quality, so she probably gets a lot of hours stuffed in a smaller amount of space. I'd like to think she doesn't pick the lowest quality setting, but maybe the second lowest.

I do remember a few years ago her having a VHS collection of something like several hundred cassettes, but when we moved I think she disposed of a lot of those. My son actually still sometimes watches things on VHS, though DVD is more common in our house. But it's kind of amusing to me that people still like VHS.


----------



## Bigg

timckelley said:


> No, I never did that calculation, but I could make a rough guess if something there could tell me how many bytes it takes to record an hour worth. Most of her stuff is recorded at fairly low quality, so she probably gets a lot of hours stuffed in a smaller amount of space. I'd like to think she doesn't pick the lowest quality setting, but maybe the second lowest.
> 
> I do remember a few years ago her having a VHS collection of something like several hundred cassettes, but when we moved I think she disposed of a lot of those. My son actually still sometimes watches things on VHS, though DVD is more common in our house. But it's kind of amusing to me that people still like VHS.


Quality? HUH? TiVos don't have that anymore, as they record whatever comes off the cable. So it's either SD or HD, depending on what channel you use.


----------



## timckelley

2 of my wife's 3 TiVos are S2's, which let you choose between 4 quality levels; each take a different amount of space per hour.

I think even on her TiVo Premier, she foolishly chooses the SD channels to record from, even when there are HD channels available. I'm pretty sure she does this to conserve on hard drive space, and she seems to not care about HD quality.


----------



## unitron

Which came first? This thread or TCF?




Seriously, there can't be that many still-active (and by the OP yet) threads which have already had a tenth anniversary.


----------



## dlfl

I would "ignore" this thread except it has officially acquired "antique" status.


----------



## steve614

sushikitten said:


> Have you figured out how many hours of TV she has archived and how many days or years it would to take to watch?





timckelley said:


> No, I never did that calculation, but I could make a rough guess if something there could tell me how many bytes it takes to record an hour worth.


This calculation has nothing to do with bytes or amount of space used. 
It is about the length of the shows. 
Count up all the shows and take into account if they are 1/2 hour, 1 hour, etc.
Add up all those hours. I'd be curious to know the number.


----------



## timckelley

The bytes would be easier and quicker for me, because I have no idea what the average length of her shows is. (And she's fairly consistent on the quality setting she uses for recording.) I'm sure she's got anywhere from 30 minutes shows to 2 hours movies, but finding out the average could be difficult. I suppose I could count up and give a lower and upper range, but the range will probably be quite wide.


----------



## Bigg

timckelley said:


> 2 of my wife's 3 TiVos are S2's, which let you choose between 4 quality levels; each take a different amount of space per hour.
> 
> I think even on her TiVo Premier, she foolishly chooses the SD channels to record from, even when there are HD channels available. I'm pretty sure she does this to conserve on hard drive space, and she seems to not care about HD quality.


Oh dear. That's pretty bad. Sounds like time for a Roamio Pro and Minis! What is she recording off of? A basted or serial controlled box?


----------



## bareyb

I think it's time to delete the Wife.


----------



## unitron

bareyb said:


> I think it's time to delete the Wife.


Nah, at this point he's got too much money tied up in her.


----------



## Coffee

timckelley said:


> The bytes would be easier and quicker for me, because I have no idea what the average length of her shows is. (And she's fairly consistent on the quality setting she uses for recording.) I'm sure she's got anywhere from 30 minutes shows to 2 hours movies, but finding out the average could be difficult. I suppose I could count up and give a lower and upper range, but the range will probably be quite wide.


A S2 measures recording space in SD hours. If you got a 1tb model, that would be 150 hours of HD, which is not far less than a thousand hours of SD.

Also, you could upgrade to anything newer than a S2 and be able to use a DVR expander, which adds 1tb to whatever is already there.


----------



## timckelley

Coffee said:


> Also, you could upgrade to anything newer than a S2 and be able to use a DVR expander, which adds 1tb to whatever is already there.


Well it looks like the price has stayed the same since a year ago, in that I could buy a Synology NAS box + 2 x 3TB WD hard drives for a tad over $500 including tax and shipping. And since I've been using RAID 1 technology (which is mirroring of the drive, so if one drive goes bad, the other drive has a backup of it), I get 3TB use out of the set up. But I see I could actually buy a 4 bay Synology device and buy 4 x 3TB drives, and set them up with RAID 5 technology, which means 1 drive backs up the other 3, so again means I'm protected from data loss, but now I get 3/4 use of the space. So for a tad over $800 I could have 9TB use of the space. So for 60% more money, I basically could have triple as much space as what $500 could give me. If my wife ever uses up another 3TB, then it'd be a good investment to go ahead and spend $800 now and get this vast ocean of space.

I'm not sure if the 1 TB expander you mention would be as cheap per byte as going the NAS route would. But there is something to be said for the 1 TB expander: One of my wife's TiVos is a TiVo Premier, and unlike her 2 S2's, the Premier automatically copy protects a bunch (but not all) of her shows on it, preventing her from moving them to the NAS. I suspect that expander would give her some breathing room for dealing with that problem.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> Well it looks like the price has stayed the same since a year ago, in that I could buy a Synology NAS box + 2 x 3TB WD hard drives for a tad over $500 including tax and shipping. And since I've been using RAID 1 technology (which is mirroring of the drive, so if one drive goes bad, the other drive has a backup of it), I get 3TB use out of the set up. But I see I could actually buy a 4 bay Synology device and buy 4 x 3TB drives, and set them up with RAID 5 technology, which means 1 drive backs up the other 3, so again means I'm protected from data loss, but now I get 3/4 use of the space. So for a tad over $800 I could have 9TB use of the space. So for 60% more money, I basically could have triple as much space as what $500 could give me. If my wife ever uses up another 3TB, then it'd be a good investment to go ahead and spend $800 now and get this vast ocean of space.
> 
> I'm not sure if the 1 TB expander you mention would be as cheap per byte as going the NAS route would. But there is something to be said for the 1 TB expander: One of my wife's TiVos is a TiVo Premier, and unlike her 2 S2's, the Premier automatically copy protects a bunch (but not all) of her shows on it, preventing her from moving them to the NAS. I suspect that expander would give her some breathing room for dealing with that problem.


I seem to recall reading that there was a problem using an external with anything bigger internally than the original drive.

Better to just replace the internal with a 2TB and not double the possible sources of failure.

newegg has the WD20EURS on sale through the 28th

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=511576


----------



## timckelley

Wow, that's a great price; considerably lower than I've found. I'll check and see if it's compatible with Synology NAS's. It's true I could save a bunch of money and just upgrade her TiVo Premier, though there wouldn't be data protection like what RAID 5 would give me. Also I've already upgraded the Premier, but I can't remember how big a drive I put in it. I know it wasn't 3TB though. I could open it up and see. I guess I'll talk about the options with my wife.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> Wow, that's a great price; considerably lower than I've found. I'll check and see if it's compatible with Synology NAS's. It's true I could save a bunch of money and just upgrade her TiVo Premier, though there wouldn't be data protection like what RAID 5 would give me. Also I've already upgraded the Premier, but I can't remember how big a drive I put in it. I know it wasn't 3TB though. I could open it up and see. I guess I'll talk about the options with my wife.


I'm talking about using that particular drive (along with comer's jmfs cd v1.04) to copy the Premeire's internal drive and expand, so that you've maxed out the Premiere's internal at 2TB and skip an external altogether.

I wouldn't think that the kind of drive suited to a NAS or RAID setup, because that's a different job from recording 24/7, where it's more important to get almost everything and keep going, instead of slowing down as much as necessary to get every last byte exactly correct.

You can live with one pixel that's blue instead of the green it was supposed to be for one 1/30th of a second out of a 2 hour movie.

A changed numeral in your financial records, not so much.

Never send racehorses and plowhorses to do each other's jobs.


----------



## iaflyer

I have a Synology to store video and photos and love it. Very easy to setup and use. As to using RAID or not, I do use raid even though the stuff isn't essential. Sure, I don't want to lose the photos but I have them stored on DVD as a backup anyway. 

The reason for the RAID is that it would take many hours to replicate the videos and photos on the hard drive that failed. With the low cost of hard drives these days, it's worth the dollars to pay for another HD to have a spinning backup. I used a pair of WD Red 2 TB hard drive for storage. At the time, it was $129 I believe, so if I consider my time at $20 an hour (lower than what I make but a decent price for my free time with the family) if it would takes long than 6 hours to replicate all that storage, I make out.


----------



## mattack

timckelley said:


> I think even on her TiVo Premier, she foolishly chooses the SD channels to record from, even when there are HD channels available. I'm pretty sure she does this to conserve on hard drive space, and she seems to not care about HD quality.


I *purposely*, not foolishly, record on the SD channels, for disk space reasons. I "care" about HD quality, and in fact sometimes am watching the On Demand HD versions of shows.. But don't want to take up the Tivo's space. (I even offload SD shows to an external drive, and yes, I managed to kill one earlier this year.. that was all my fault.)

The *one* show I have started recording in HD because I watch it that night is The Amazing Race.


----------



## Bigg

How do you stand watching crummy SD? Just get a bigger TiVo!


----------



## timckelley

Crisis in progress: it's Xmas season, the time when my wife goes to town with her To Do List, and one of her S2's just died. I just posted a thread to the help board here, and I'll see if it can be resurrected, but I'm not so sure it can be. She's not very happy at the moment.


----------



## bareyb

timckelley said:


> Crisis in progress: it's Xmas season, the time when my wife goes to town with her To Do List, and one of her S2's just died. I just posted a thread to the help board here, and I'll see if it can be resurrected, but I'm not so sure it can be. She's not very happy at the moment.


Most likely just needs a new Hard Drive, but her recordings are probably gone for good&#8230; Better ask Santa for some more Hard Drives...She's probably going to want you back up all her recordings now.


----------



## mattack

Depends on how bad you mean it died. If the drive shows up while connected to a computer, you MIGHT be able to "just" do the "copy and expand" steps to recover the contents.


----------



## WRX09MD

Timber said:


> Delete her stuff and blame it on a TiVo bug!
> 
> -=Tim=-


Im not even married and that will get me a divorce for sure!


----------



## unitron

Fofer said:


> Any update?


The saga is in progress here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512172


----------



## PalmTrees

timckelley said:


> Crisis in progress: it's Xmas season, the time when my wife goes to town with her To Do List, and one of her S2's just died. I just posted a thread to the help board here, and I'll see if it can be resurrected, but I'm not so sure it can be. She's not very happy at the moment.


Is the wife actively angry with the machine for dying, or does she recognize that it's bound to happen over time?


----------



## timckelley

Her stockpile is getting more reliable than it used to be, now that we have pyTiVo hooked our NAS that contains two hard drives (mirrored - I think it's called RAID 0). Plus I did go ahead and purchase a new bigger NAS and 4 hard drives to put in it in RAID 5 formation. They're on route as we speak, being shipped to my house.

I also, for $8.50 just purchased a MOCA POE filter from ebay, in hopes it will improve our home networking. The wifi is unreliable with pyTiVo, and I'm constantly restarting pyTiVo, and the MOCA is also unreliable anywhere that's not very close to the router. I'm hoping this $8.50 part will solve things.

But yes, the hard drives inside the TiVos themselves are not backed up and are at risk, and my wife really doesn't want to lose the data on them.

As for the broken TiVo, I've been waiting for over a day for a guy on Craiglist to answer my last email, but he just did. I'm scheduled to pick up his broken TiVo tomorrow morning (for free - he's giving it away!) on my way to work, and my plan is to harvest the power supply out it, as I think the his power supply is okay. I'm hoping that's what's wrong with my wife's TiVo (a bad power supply). The people on the help board are leaning that that's what's wrong with it, given my symptoms. So best case scenario is that by tomorrow evening, her TiVo is operational again, with no loss of her shows, except whatever her To Do List failed to record during her down time.

Worst case scenario is that the motherboard is bad, and my lifetime subscription is at risk. I guess a mid-case scenario is a bad hard drive. Hopefully I'll know more by tomorrow evening.


----------



## timckelley

As I just reported in the help thread: Success! I've repaired the TiVo, and the cost of repairs was unbeatable at $0.00. (Craiglist free TiVo with good power supply and bad hard drive + wife's TiVo with bad power supply and good hard drive = wife's repaired TiVo plus extra TiVo with bad hard drive and no power supply.)

Thanks are due to the folks at the Help forum.


----------



## bareyb




----------



## timckelley

Well I discovered something funny. I finished putting the case together, and I was going to put the TiVo back on it's shelf (I had it on the floor to work on it), and I noticed all the wires were already correctly threaded in from the back of that shelf except the power cord.

So I got the bright idea of unplugging the UPS, but leaving the TiVo plugged into the UPS, and thread the UPS and the power cord with it, through that shelf so that I could get the TiVo back into position without having to power it off.

Well once I unplugged the UPS, the TiVo instantly powered down, which means the UPS is bad. I guess I'll be shopping for a new UPS.

Edit: while looking through UPS threads here, somebody suggested just replacing the battery. It turns out my model has a replacement battery available through Amazon with free shipping for $17.59. Probably a lot cheaper than new UPS's.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> Well I discovered something funny. I finished putting the case together, and I was going to put the TiVo back on it's shelf (I had it on the floor to work on it), and I noticed all the wires were already correctly threaded in from the back of that shelf except the power cord.
> 
> So I got the bright idea of unplugging the UPS, but leaving the TiVo plugged into the UPS, and thread the UPS and the power cord with it, through that shelf so that I could get the TiVo back into position without having to power it off.
> 
> Well once I unplugged the UPS, the TiVo instantly powered down, which means the UPS is bad. I guess I'll be shopping for a new UPS.
> 
> Edit: while looking through UPS threads here, somebody suggested just replacing the battery. It turns out my model has a replacement battery available through Amazon with free shipping for $17.59. Probably a lot cheaper than new UPS's.


Those batteries are designed to amaze you at how fast 2 years goes by anymore.


----------



## CrispyCritter

unitron said:


> Those batteries are designed to amaze you at how fast 2 years goes by anymore.


I've given up with online replacement batteries, and most of the time have given up on manufacturer replacement batteries. My experience is they either don't work in the first place, or don't last. It's more cost-effective for me to just replace the UPS with one bought on sale (I have 8 UPS's so it's worthwhile me keeping a sale spare around).


----------



## unitron

CrispyCritter said:


> I've given up with online replacement batteries, and most of the time have given up on manufacturer replacement batteries. My experience is they either don't work in the first place, or don't last. It's more cost-effective for me to just replace the UPS with one bought on sale (I have 8 UPS's so it's worthwhile me keeping a sale spare around).


When they're on sale, they're usually not much more than the price of the battery, but they're very good at timing the sales when I either don't need one or can't get to the store.


----------



## timckelley

unitron said:


> When they're on sale, they're usually not much more than the price of the battery, but they're very good at timing the sales when I either don't need one or can't get to the store.


Even when on sale, I've never seen them anywhere near $17.59.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> Even when on sale, I've never seen them anywhere near $17.59.


And if you need one right now and drop in at Batteries +, you won't see that price, either.


----------



## timckelley

unitron said:


> And if you need one right now and drop in at Batteries +, you won't see that price, either.


True, but I do see that price right now on Amazon, with free shipping.


----------



## timckelley

BTW, that NAS I bought dragged a long time to get going. I got the unbright idea of purchasing used hard drives, which the seller said were well tested with 100% good sectors, working as well as brand-new. Two were DOA, and at least one of the others had bad sectors on it, per the utilities I ran to test them with.

The good news is that he took them back with no hassle, and he even paid the return shipping, so I was out nothing. This time I bought 4 brand-new still in factory wrapping hard drives, and last night I installed them. They seem perfect. As of this morning, one of the NAS utilities was still running, one which tests every sector, so it's not 100% tested out yet, but so far everything looks good and all 4 drives are detected and storage allocated.

This one box has an amazing 12 trillion bytes in it, with 3 of those trillion for redundant storage per RAID-5 strategy, so really I have use of 9 trillion bytes.

I now feel digitally wealthy.


----------



## timckelley

A somewhat embarrassing update.

I've said in some threads (maybe this one too) that we've been having trouble transferring my wife's recordings reliably via pyTiVo because our wifi signal isn't steady enough, and my attempts to use MOCA have not worked.

My wife got the idea of having me move her kitchen TiVo to my son's bedroom (which is located just across the hall from my router, so the signal should be good there) which I did, and after awhile, she didn't like not having access to trickplay features in the morning... typically during the mornings she likes watching the news and weather forecasts in the kitchen, and she likes being able to rewind when she misses something.

So she asked if I could get a fifth TiVo eek:  ) to put in the kitchen for that. I reminded her that the reason we moved it is to get pyTiVo to work more reliably. She said that's okay, because she'd just use the TiVo for watching in the mornings, and won't need to archive anything from it. I then asked her if she only cares about rewinding the live buffer, because I think (but am not 100%, but I'm pretty sure) that an old unsubbed S2 TiVo will work from the live buffer + trickplay features, but she won't have any guide data, and I'm pretty sure she won't be able to hit the <record> button to record the live show that's airing either.

She countered that she'd like the ability to record the live show that's in progress with the <record> button. (Why, I'm not sure.) So out of curiosity, I went to Craigslist to see if anybody had any lifetimed S2's for sale, and I did find one ad that was a nice one. She lives not far at all from me, and is selling her lifetimed S2 for $50. That seemed like a great deal, so I replied to the already 9 day old ad, and she still had it.

So I went by, and I thought I'd be smart and test it before buying it, so I brought a tiny hand held DVD player I have, which can also be used as a monitor, because it has video inputs.

I got to her place last night, and the details are: she hasn't used it in 3 years, and it's still packed in her box. She had used it for the 5 years prior to that, so it's actually 8 years old. (She currently has AT&T Uverse, and uses AT&T's DVR, which she confides that she doesn't like as much as TiVo, which says something, because she's comparing it to her old S2, let alone today's models. But she's an AT&T customer and has their DVR, so she feels she has no use for the TiVo.)

Anyway, I plugged it in, and it got stuck on the Welcome screen while powering up.  After 10 minutes of being stuck I gave up, as that seems too long. However, having said this, I could be wrong, but the fact that it made it to the welcome screen suggests to me that the motherboard and power supply are okay, and maybe it just needs a new hard drive. It's lifetimed, and so seems to have value in my mind. She also is very tech unsavvy and says she'd have no clue how to work on a TiVo to fix one.

Well she came right and out and said if I'm still interested, I can just take it without paying her, and try to fix it, and if I succeed in getting it fixed, I can pay her what I think it's worth. I was impressed by her trusting nature, and I don't like taking advantage of people, so I gave her my contact information so that she'll know I won't just abscond with her TiVo, and my plan is to try and fix it.

I'm pretty sure I have extra hard drives lieing around my house, so it's possible I could get this thing working at no cost, in which case I feel like I probably should still give her $50. Well I guess I could deduct money for the work I did, but I feel like $50 is such a great deal, even if the only thing wrong is a bad hard drive, I still kind of feel like she deserves $50 if that's all it needs. I might need to get an image for the drive though, and I don't know if I'll have to pay to get an image. (If so, that might be legitimately deducted from her $50.) But this came up once before, years ago, and I lucked out, and somebody on TCF actually sent me the image I needed for free.

Also, we do have 2 other S2's, and maybe we'll luck out and one of them is the same model, and I could get the image from that one... I haven't yet checked to compare model numbers. Also, I do happen to have a computer (the one that's running pyTiVo) that contains a motherboard with IDE connections, so I could certainly use that one to work on this old model S2 (which most probably contains an IDE motherboard in it).

Anyway, I started out saying this was embarrassing, and the embarrassing part is that we actually have 5 TiVos in our house now (albeit one doesn't work yet). It seems kind of absurd to me to have that many TiVos, but a lifetimed TiVo including hardware + sub, all for $50, just seemed like a great deal to me, and my wife wanted it, and it might be hard to beat that price very easily, so I took it.


----------



## terpfan1980

5 TiVo boxes isn't embarrassing. I've got that in my home (5 Premieres, with plans to replace one of those with a Roamio), though one is not currently active.
Step-daughter's bedroom.
Daughter's bedroom is supposed to have one, but is not currently active.
Living room.
Master Bedroom.
Den.

Add on top of that the tuners that I have available in the HTPC that I have (which can be accessed over the network from 2 other PC's, as well as from the Ceton Echo extender).

A Slingbox connected to one of the TiVo's is also occasionally used by my son to get stuff that he otherwise couldn't catch while he's away at school.

There is no such thing as too much TV.  

(That doesn't mean that we keep all of the recordings for forever and don't let them go. In that area, well, if the box gets full, too bad. Something is gonna be deleted.)


----------



## gastrof

timckelley said:


> A somewhat embarrassing update...


There are people who work for the government who, with a combination of drugs and other techniques could take care of this whole problem for you.

Have you ever heard of "Stepford"?


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> A somewhat embarrassing update.
> 
> I've said in some threads (maybe this one too) that we've been having trouble transferring my wife's recordings reliably via pyTiVo because our wifi signal isn't steady enough, and my attempts to use MOCA have not worked.
> 
> My wife got the idea of having me move her kitchen TiVo to my son's bedroom (which is located just across the hall from my router, so the signal should be good there) which I did, and after awhile, she didn't like not having access to trickplay features in the morning... typically during the mornings she likes watching the news and weather forecasts in the kitchen, and she likes being able to rewind when she misses something.
> 
> So she asked if I could get a fifth TiVo eek:  ) to put in the kitchen for that. I reminded her that the reason we moved it is to get pyTiVo to work more reliably. She said that's okay, because she'd just use the TiVo for watching in the mornings, and won't need to archive anything from it. I then asked her if she only cares about rewinding the live buffer, because I think (but am not 100%, but I'm pretty sure) that an old unsubbed S2 TiVo will work from the live buffer + trickplay features, but she won't have any guide data, and I'm pretty sure she won't be able to hit the <record> button to record the live show that's airing either.
> 
> She countered that she'd like the ability to record the live show that's in progress with the <record> button. (Why, I'm not sure.) So out of curiosity, I went to Craigslist to see if anybody had any lifetimed S2's for sale, and I did find one ad that was a nice one. She lives not far at all from me, and is selling her lifetimed S2 for $50. That seemed like a great deal, so I replied to the already 9 day old ad, and she still had it.
> 
> So I went by, and I thought I'd be smart and test it before buying it, so I brought a tiny hand held DVD player I have, which can also be used as a monitor, because it has video inputs.
> 
> I got to her place last night, and the details are: she hasn't used it in 3 years, and it's still packed in her box. She had used it for the 5 years prior to that, so it's actually 8 years old. (She currently has AT&T Uverse, and uses AT&T's DVR, which she confides that she doesn't like as much as TiVo, which says something, because she's comparing it to her old S2, let alone today's models. But she's an AT&T customer and has their DVR, so she feels she has no use for the TiVo.)
> 
> Anyway, I plugged it in, and it got stuck on the Welcome screen while powering up.  After 10 minutes of being stuck I gave up, as that seems too long. However, having said this, I could be wrong, but the fact that it made it to the welcome screen suggests to me that the motherboard and power supply are okay, and maybe it just needs a new hard drive. It's lifetimed, and so seems to have value in my mind. She also is very tech unsavvy and says she'd have no clue how to work on a TiVo to fix one.
> 
> Well she came right and out and said if I'm still interested, I can just take it without paying her, and try to fix it, and if I succeed in getting it fixed, I can pay her what I think it's worth. I was impressed by her trusting nature, and I don't like taking advantage of people, so I gave her my contact information so that she'll know I won't just abscond with her TiVo, and my plan is to try and fix it.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have extra hard drives lieing around my house, so it's possible I could get this thing working at no cost, in which case I feel like I probably should still give her $50. Well I guess I could deduct money for the work I did, but I feel like $50 is such a great deal, even if the only thing wrong is a bad hard drive, I still kind of feel like she deserves $50 if that's all it needs. I might need to get an image for the drive though, and I don't know if I'll have to pay to get an image. (If so, that might be legitimately deducted from her $50.) But this came up once before, years ago, and I lucked out, and somebody on TCF actually sent me the image I needed for free.
> 
> Also, we do have 2 other S2's, and maybe we'll luck out and one of them is the same model, and I could get the image from that one... I haven't yet checked to compare model numbers. Also, I do happen to have a computer (the one that's running pyTiVo) that contains a motherboard with IDE connections, so I could certainly use that one to work on this old model S2 (which most probably contains an IDE motherboard in it).
> 
> Anyway, I started out saying this was embarrassing, and the embarrassing part is that we actually have 5 TiVos in our house now (albeit one doesn't work yet). It seems kind of absurd to me to have that many TiVos, but a lifetimed TiVo including hardware + sub, all for $50, just seemed like a great deal to me, and my wife wanted it, and it might be hard to beat that price very easily, so I took it.


On the back where the power cord plugs in there's a sticker and the model number is on that sticker and if it's a TiVo brand TiVo that number will start with TCD (and if the next three characters are 649 I may have to hate you) and if you tell us what it is we can see about getting it running again.

In the meantime, go read the IDE/SATA adapter thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

because S2s are set up to use IDE drives but you can get a lot more GB/$ with SATA drives these days, and I'll bet if you get a twinbreeze bracket from weaKnees and put two 1TB drives in there she'll have all 2TB filled in short order.

It could be that the drive is okay but (due to "capacitor plague") the power supply isn't quite up to providing enough current for everything at once.

Don't actually spend any money until after we talk again.

(I think your wife and my mom must be related)


----------



## timckelley

Well the TiVo I need to repair is model TCD140060, and my other S2s are models TCD540040 and TCD240080. Does anybody know if either of those two have compatible images to the TCD140060, or do I need to look elsewhere for a fresh image?

I'm probably jumping the gun though, because I haven't verified if the hard drive is bad. I'm thinking as a first diagnostic step, I should pull out the hard drive and mount it in my Windows XP computer (which has an IDE motherboard in it), and run a hard drive diagnostic utility to see if the hard drive is good or not.

According to This site, this S2 I just got is the first S2 model ever made.

Edit: I'm confused, because the above site says this model comes with a 60 GB hard drive. Yet I could swear the first S2 I ever bought had a 40 GB drive. Yet they claim this is the first S2 model? 

More bad news: I'm looking around my house for spare hard drives, and so far I'm just finding a 20 GB and a 40 GB, which I guess are pretty puny. OTOH, my wife didn't act like she wanted this TiVo to store a bunch of shows on, but mainly to have some kind of timeshifting ability in the kitchen. IOW, not her normal hoarding, but merely taimeshifting.

Edit2: I talked to my wife, and even a 40 GB drive, which would give her 40 hours at basic quality (IIRC) is more than satisfactory to her. She claims she just wants it to be able to hold a couple of shows on it.


----------



## timckelley

Well, I opened it up. As the link above says, it has a 60GB Western Digital hard drive, and stamped on it is "June 13, 2002". Maybe this thing is older than the owner claimed. I will say it's really clean inside with no dust at all anywhere that I see.

I suppose I could put something bigger than my 40 GB drive in it, but if I can quickly get it working, I'll feel better about knowing what fair price I should pay the girl that lent it to me. I can always upgrade later if I need to.


----------



## timckelley

Wow, it just turns out that I already have a DOS bootable flash drive that tests western digital hard drives. I think I'll use it now to test this drive.

Edit: Darn, the one computer I need to use to test the HD (because it has an IDE motherboard) is the same one that runs pyTiVo, and my wife has it busy right now transferring stuff. With her queue, it'll be tomorrow before I can resume work on this.  Oh well.


----------



## timckelley

timckelley said:


> Well the TiVo I need to repair is model TCD140060, and my other S2s are models TCD540040 and TCD240080. Does anybody know if either of those two have compatible images to the TCD140060, or do I need to look elsewhere for a fresh image?


I found these quotes from a 7.5 year old thread:



Anametrix said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I have a working TCD240XXX image, I'm wondering if this image will work on a TCD140XXX TiVo?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Thanks in advance!





mick66 said:


> Yes, it will work, if the image is of v7.1 or later. The 240 and 140 TiVos both use the same software now, but the older versions are different and not interchangable.


Earlier in that thread, they say if the first three digits are different, you're out of luck, but this guy talks about v7.1 or later. I should look at my TCD240 TiVo that I have to verify if the version is v7.1 or later (which given that thread is 7.5 years old, I'd think that I'm okay). It sounds like I'm in luck, and can use that image.  :up:


----------



## timckelley

Say, if I do get this thing fixed for free, do you people think I should still offer $50 to her, which was her full asking price? She did advertise it as working, which it isn't, so I could certainly argue it's worth less, and she seems to be negotiable given it's condition and willing to basically collect from me whatever I say it's worth, but if $50 was underpriced to begin with, and having a bad hard drive is still worth the $50, then I don't want to short change her, and I'll still pay her $50.

I guess my question is: what is a reasonable market value for a lifetimed TiVo that's got a bad hard drive? If those go for $50, then I'll probably pay her $50. But I'm not going higher than that, because $50 was her original asking price. However, if the true market value is less than $50, I may consider offering her whatever that market value is.


----------



## timckelley

Wow, I just found a hard drive lying around I forgot I had, which is 320 GB: much bigger than the other two. But it's SATA, so I'd have to install some kind of adapter to get it to work. I guess I can try that, but it likely won't happen today, as I own no such adapter.


----------



## timckelley

I'm getting very frustrated, because I've spent most of today simply trying to create a bootable CD with disk utilities on it. I preferred a flash drive, but for some reason I can't get my Windows XP computer to boot to a USB drive.

I got it to boot to a DOS bootable CD, but if I try to include drive diagnostics, it no longer will boot. Then I thought to boot to the DOS only CD, and swap CDs to one that contains the diagnostics (as once it boots to CD, it won't recognize the flash drive), but now it won't boot to any CD for some wierd reason.

I've tried switching to a R/W CD after wasting 3 read-onlies, but I get the error message "Unit not ready", and can't burn an ISO to it.

I guess now I'm off to google what that means.

This is just a sampling of what I've gone through today, spending hours getting nowhere on this. I guess I'm not really an expert of how to make bootable CDs or flash drives and have to rely on google, and google hasn't really come through for me today.


----------



## timckelley

I downloaded some program called WinISO that lets me add files to ISOs, so I added the drive diagnostics. Several CDs later, they all failed either because the CDs were unreadable, or there is a bad or missing command interpreter.

But looking at the ISO file on my hard drive (before burning), I don't see any COMMAND.COM, which makes me think the ISO file itself (which I downloaded from internet) is insufficient. It's chock filled with DOS utilities, but the most important one: command.com is missing. I guess now I'll look elsewhere for a better ISO file.

I worry that this entire day will come and go with me making no progress, while I have many other household duties that are getting neglected.

Edit: no, command.com is there now.  It wasn't before, I could swear.


----------



## timckelley

I can't believe, I finally get it to boot to a DOS CD, and the drive diagnostic that I added to the ISO prior to burning are mysteriously missing from the CD.


----------



## scandia101

timckelley said:


> I found these quotes from a 7.5 year old thread:
> 
> Earlier in that thread, they say if the first three digits are different, you're out of luck, but this guy talks about v7.1 or later. I should look at my TCD240 TiVo that I have to verify if the version is v7.1 or later (which given that thread is 7.5 years old, I'd think that I'm okay). It sounds like I'm in luck, and can use that image.  :up:


Yes, tivo merged the software at some point so that 140s and 240s use the same software. Considering that the S1s ended on v7.3 it would be unlikely that a working 240 isn't at least as current as the S1 software.
The replacement drive will have to be be at least 80gb because that's what's in a 240080, unless the 240 was upgraded from a 240040 image.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> I can't believe, I finally get it to boot to a DOS CD, and the drive diagnostic that I added to the ISO prior to burning are mysteriously missing from the CD.


Your cd burning software should have a "burn as an image" option, which will let you make a bootable copy of the Ultimate Boot CD from the free .iso as well as a bootable copy of the MFS LIve cd v1.4 .iso

The UBCD has drive diagnostic programs from all the major brands to check the drive itself.

The MFS Live cd has

pdisk -l /dev/whicheverdriveistheTiVoone

to check the partition layout

and

mfsinfo /dev/whicheverdriveistheTiVoone

to check the MFS partitions

and WinMFS, running on XP SP3 or later, also has a version of

mfsinfo

that can reveal problems with the TiVo software on the drive.

Go here:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

go to the bottom where it says mirror sites and click on one of the old-style drive icons.

and for MFS Live, click this

http://mfslive.org/forums/download/file.php?id=89

Recent-ish 140 image usable with WinMFS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/140_gset.tbk

That 240 image will probably work on a big enough drive, and if it's not new enough

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/240_gset.bak

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/240_GSet.tbk

Remember, .tbk files have to be restored with WinMFS
(if you don't already have winmfs.exe on that XP machine, PM me)

and .bak files are for restoring with the MFS Live cd.

Back during the single tuner S2 era, Maxtor was making drives with a few more bytes than the competition for a given size, and some of those drives got used in TiVos, so an image from, for example, the 80GB Maxtor that came in my 240 won't fit on an 80GB WD or Seagate, so there's that to worry about.

As to which IDE/SATA adapter is needed for that particular S2, there seems to be some uncertainty as to whether it has to be a Marvell chipset based one, like the S1s, or whether, like the later S2s, it can use either a Marvell based or a JMicron based.

I've got a 140 I can experiment on if I can find a working SATA drive around here.

Now, in case the problem isn't the drive, do you have a voltmeter?


----------



## timckelley

So I thought I'd try putting hte diagnostics on a separate CD so I could swap them. (Boot to one, use another to run diagnostics.) But I get "General Failure reading drive A". It seems it will only read the disc I boot to.

It's weird: I insert the CD in a different computer, and I see all files just fine, but in the XP computer, it seems them all except the ones I added (the drive diagnostics). I'm having trouble thinking of anything more to try.


----------



## timckelley

Also, I wonder why my later model e-machines computer will boot to my flash drive, but the older model won't. The BIOS lists it as a bootable drive. It already has my drive utilities and DOS in bootable form, so it would be easy and convenient if I could boot to it.

I'd just use my later model e-machines to do this, but it's motherboard is a SATA motherboard, so I'd like to use the other one.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> So I thought I'd try putting hte diagnostics on a separate CD so I could swap them. (Boot to one, use another to run diagnostics.) But I get "General Failure reading drive A". It seems it will only read the disc I boot to.
> 
> It's weird: I insert the CD in a different computer, and I see all files just fine, but in the XP computer, it seems them all except the ones I added (the drive diagnostics). I'm having trouble thinking of anything more to try.


Just use the UBCD on the PC with IDE.


----------



## trip1eX

Reminds me of my Dad. He'd watch his fav shows. Then he got a VCR. And then at first occasionally recorded those fav shows when he otherwise couldn't watch them. He started to fall behind though and eventually was recording everything and watching nothing. It was a vicious circle. The more he recorded stuff so he (could) go back and catch up the bigger the pile got which only increased the odds he'd ever go back. I guess he didn't want to admit defeat. And so it became a running joke. 

And in his garage somewhere sits a few large boxes of VCR tapes with every episode of Dallas, Falcon Crest, Dynasty and a few other shows like Dukes of Hazzard starting somewhere after the first few years those shows started airing because even 5-10 years after those shows stopped airing he wouldn't let anyone record on those tapes.


----------



## unitron

trip1eX said:


> Reminds me of my Dad. He'd watch his fav shows. Then he got a VCR. And then at first occasionally recorded those fav shows when he otherwise couldn't watch them. He started to fall behind though and eventually was recording everything and watching nothing. It was a vicious circle. The more he recorded stuff so he go back and catch up the bigger the pile got whichonly increased the odds he'd ever go back. I guess he didn't want to admit defeat. And so it became a running joke.
> 
> And in his garage somewhere sits a few large boxes of VCR tapes with every episode of Dallas, Falcon Crest, Dynasty and a few other shows like Dukes of Hazzard starting somewhere after the first few years those shows started airing because even 5-10 years after those shows stopped airing he wouldn't let anyone record on those tapes.


Should have bought him a second VCR, although that might have led to tying up both machines recording. 

But that's one of the big advantages of the TiVo--you can tie up as many tuners as it has and still watch something you already recorded.


----------



## timckelley

unitron said:


> Just use the UBCD on the PC with IDE.


Thank you; I'm attempting this now, but I think I clicked on the wrong button and some software got installed that I didn't want.


----------



## timckelley

I finally got UBCD created and I've booted to it, and I see the UBCD menu right now on the computer that's got the questional TiVo drive mounted, but it's not obvious to me how to use this menu to test the drive. I'm still fiddling around with it though.


----------



## timckelley

My problem with UBCD is that only two items on the main menu are selectable. I can't scroll the hard drive diagnostics to make it run. Only the first and last items on that menu work.


----------



## timckelley

I hope I can get this posted, as my main computer has gotten flaky ever since I installed the UBCD software, but anyway, I forgot that my keyboard has this weird quirk that everytime I switch computers via my KVM switch, numlock goes on. I turned it off, and now I can navigate the whole UBCD menu. I ran the 5 minute quick test on the TiVo drive, and I got: "TEST COMPLETED WITH READ ELEMENT FAILURE. ERROR/STATUS CODE 7". It then invites me to run a full media scan to resolve the issue. I assume that I should infer from this that it's a bad drive.

I have onhand a Samsung drive I can try to replace it with... I hope UBCD can also test Samsung; I'm about to search and see. The test I just ran was on a WD drive, and I used the built in WD diagnostic to test it.

Edit: Yes, UBCD does have two different versions of Samsung drive diagnostics... I'm now googling to see which version goes with the particular model I have.


----------



## timckelley

Welp, the Samsung passes with no errors, so I suppose I could now go about getting it imaged. I guess I'm off to research how to use MFS tools.

Edit: Wait, after rereading unitron's post, he lays it out simply for me, by providing an image link and offers me access to an exe file to install it. Thank you; that's very helpful. The way you've spelled it out, it sounds like I'm getting close to the light at the end of the tunnel on this.


----------



## timckelley

By the way, my wife has reiterated she doesn't need a bigger hard drive, but I'll concede that given her track records, I should not rule it getting something bigger than the puny 40GB Samsung I have onhand will be needed at some point.

But right now, I want to see if I can get the TiVo working with parts I have onhand because

a) What if something else is wrong besides the hard drive? I don't want to shell out for a new HD just to discover it's going to be a waste because the TiVo is not resurrectable.

b) I hate to keep the Craigslist girl (I guess I say girl, because she's a fair amount younger than me) dangling on the status of the TiVo, as we haven't actually come to an agreement on how much I'm willing to pay her for the TiVo, and I need to know how reliable it is before I come up with a number. I suppose if I'm going to cut it down to 40 GB (or eventually shell out for another HD) I could justify lowering her $50 number, but I do feel like it's worth something because of that lifetime sub, so if I get it working, I'm definitely going to pay her a reasonable amount of money. Surprisingly, she emailed me her address, and said I can simply mail her a check. That does seem to go against Craigslist protocol; she's very trusting (that the check won't bounce).

Well, I say trusting, but when I was in her condo (just a small condo from the looks of it), she had her front door open the whole time.  Maybe she didn't trust me enough to be alone with her in her small condo with the door closed. I guess you can never be too careful with these Craigslist guys.


----------



## timckelley

Process complete! :up:  :up: 

At first it said something about a hardware malfunction, and that I must restart it, but it's probably because I had just put a new image on the HD. I had it connect to internet via ethernet to update account status, and it still said "no service"   So I called customer service and they said no, it does have lifetime service.

I restarted the DVR as it requested and now it does say "Lifetime".  All I really need to do now is go through guided setup. System info also confirms that space available matches what I'd expect given the hard drive that's in it.

So I think I'm in business, and in the process am probably now indebted to unitron, who was of great help getting this to work. He also helped me recently with another of our TiVos that broke and needed a power supply, as I explained a bit earlier in this thread.

The girl that sold me this TiVo said she kind of marvels at the kind of people that you can get to connect with your equipment when going through Craigslist. (I think in her mind, I'm some kind of TiVo expert and computer wizard, but really to be honest, I'm nothing compared to the experts in the TCF Help forum, especially unitron.)

So our house now has 5 working TiVos, all with product lifetime on them: 3 S2's, one Premier, and one TiVo HD. I think I've only paid for 2 or 3 lifetimes, as I've been getting good deals on lifetime by buying used.



timckelley said:


> I hope I can get this posted, as my main computer has gotten flaky ever since I installed the UBCD software.


BTW, this is fixed now too. The flakyness was spam popups in chrome, and overall computer slowness. I used system restore to go back in time a few days, and all is well now.


----------



## unitron




----------



## timckelley

Well guide data is loaded, but when I hit Now playing, I get a message about a hardware problem preventing me from being able to record anything, or to watch anything in NP. I tested it, and I can schedule To Do items, but sure enough, it won't record. The specific error is "Error #51".

I googled, and this thread says that means the the TiVo service number on the motherboard doesn't match what's on the disk, and the fix is to do a "Clear and delete everything". Actually this does make sense, since this is a new disk with an image that didn't come from this TiVo, so maybe this error is nothing to worry about.

I guess I'll go do a Clear and Delete Everything.


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## steve614

timckelley said:


> I guess I'll go do a Clear and Delete Everything.


Yep, I was going to say something about this because you didn't mention it in the previous post, but I see you've figured it out.

:up:

Now, have you decided what your going to pay to the woman who gave you the Tivo?
Whatever you decide, I think $40 is a fair price since the Tivo has lifetime, even though you had to do some work to get it working.


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## unitron

Give her the full $50 for being nice about it, and having trusted you.


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## timckelley

My wife's initial advice was to slash it in half to $25 or less because of the work involved. I told her that the fact that it has a lifetime sub is worth something reasonable, and I slowly worked her up to an agreement of $40, which coincidentally exactly equals steve's advice. I haven't emailed her yet, but I'm about to. Actually I'm not closeminded to the full $50 - I really think she probably deserves whatever the typical market value is for a lifetimed used S2 with a broken hard drive in it, but I'm just not sure what that is.

I could theoretically make an argument that what I now have is a working S2 with a puny 40 GB drive in it, instead of the 60 GB that was advertised, so I'm marking it down to $40. But I could in my mind make a counterargement that if this TiVo is eventually destined for an HD upgrade anyhow, whatever HD I threw in there to get it working is irrelevant.

It's possible, but I'm not sure, that had the ad said "lifetimed S2 with bad hard drive for $50", that maybe I still would have bought it.


BTW, the clear and delete everything worked, and all features appear to work just fine now.


----------



## Aero 1

timckelley said:


> My wife's initial advice was to slash it in half to $25 or less because of the work involved. I told her that the fact that it has a lifetime sub is worth something reasonable, and I slowly worked her up to an agreement of $40, which coincidentally exactly equals steve's advice. I haven't emailed her yet, but I'm about to. Actually I'm not closeminded to the full $50 - I really think she probably deserves whatever the typical market value is for a lifetimed used S2 with a broken hard drive in it, but I'm just not sure what that is.
> 
> I could theoretically make an argument that what I now have is a working S2 with a puny 40 GB drive in it, instead of the 60 GB that was advertised, so I'm marking it down to $40. But I could in my mind make a counterargement that if this TiVo is eventually destined for an HD upgrade anyhow, whatever HD I threw in there to get it working is irrelevant.
> 
> It's possible, but I'm not sure, that had the ad said "lifetimed S2 with bad hard drive for $50", that maybe I still would have bought it.
> 
> BTW, the clear and delete everything worked, and all features appear to work just fine now.


Just giver her the $50. That lady helped you deal with your wife's OCD and saved you hours of being yelled at and reprimanded.


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## timckelley

Aero 1 said:


> Just giver her the $50. That lady helped you deal with your wife's OCD and saved you hours of being yelled at and reprimanded.


One problem might be that if $50 is too much, my wife will likely give me grief for paying that much. And I just did a quick look at ebay for lifetimed malfunctioning S2's that got sold, and the few I saw went for $20 - $30, so maybe $40 is more than reasonable. I suppose one reason the market value is lower is because only a relatively smaller subset of potential buyers are willing and able to fix them.


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## shwru980r

timckelley said:


> One problem might be that if $50 is too much, my wife will likely give me grief for paying that much. And I just did a quick look at ebay for lifetimed malfunctioning S2's that got sold, and the few I saw went for $20 - $30, so maybe $40 is more than reasonable. I suppose one reason the market value is lower is because only a relatively smaller subset of potential buyers are willing and able to fix them.


She said she would accept what you think it's worth. Checking ebay completed auctions is an objective method of determining the value of an item.


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## timckelley

Yes, the sale is completed by the way. Based on my review I felt that $40 was more than enough, so I offered it, and she enthusiastically said "Sold!", and also told me how happy she was that I got it working, as it makes her feel better that her TiVo will have a good home and live on. I've already paid her the money now, and the TiVo is still working fine.

I got the impression that she was very happy with the $40. I do remember when I was over at her place mentioning to her that it's a shame that people can't recover their lifetime fees when they sell their TiVos, but she quickly dismissed that saying that she got her money's worth out of it, given the number of years worth of monthly subscription fees she never had to pay.


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## trip1eX

unitron said:


> Should have bought him a second VCR, although that might have led to tying up both machines recording.
> 
> But that's one of the big advantages of the TiVo--you can tie up as many tuners as it has and still watch something you already recorded.


Totally forgot you couldn't watch while you recorded on a VCR. 

Thanks. I knew something was missing from my story. That's the big reason he couldn't catch up.

Oh and he was too cheap to buy another VCR (I don't recall the idea ever coming up) and I was just a kid. He spent a ton on tapes for shows he'd never watch though.  He could have bought another VCR and got by with 2 tapes instead of 50 or whatever it was and spent the same $$$. Probably a bit penny-wise and lb-foolish relatively speaking although he probably made better use of his time which is priceless.


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## timckelley

New development. Today my wife complained that one by one, each of her 3 TiVos halted their transfers of shows to our NAS. I took a look and see the problem.

Just like in Dr Suess's "The Lorax", she has cut down the very last truffula tree. (Aka our 3TB NAS is now tapped out of space). She filled it up. 

So I just put our recently purchased 9TB NAS into service. I'm busy moving some of her shows over to it, and later this evening I'll set up pyTivo so that new transferred shows go to the new NAS.


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## bareyb

What would happen if you started deleting the oldest of her shows from the NAS to make more room as you go? Would she even notice? You know she's never actually going to watch the vast majority of this stuff right? I think she has a sickness and you are her enabler.


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## timckelley

At some she'd probably figure it out, and I'd be in hot water. But if this 9TB (actually 12 TB, but 3TB are used for RAID5 protection) ever gets filled up, I'd like to think she'll do some weeding out to make room.


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## bareyb

Yeah&#8230; I agree. That's probably not gonna happen. Hoarders don't typically give up anything unless they are forced to or it's causing them some type of hardship. As it is, most of the hassle is falling on _you_. She can basically just keep doing what she's always done with no repercussions. It's like the 600 lb. people who can't get out of bed. _Somebody_ is bringing them food&#8230; In this case it's you.

If you _really_ want something about this to change (and I'm not saying you do), it's going to have to come from you and she's going to have to get real about her hoarding issues. Of course, there are far more harmful things in life than digital hoarding, and I understand wanting to help your wife and keep the peace, but that's the reality in my opinion.


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## unitron

timckelley said:


> New development. Today my wife complained that one by one, each of her 3 TiVos halted their transfers of shows to our NAS. I took a look and see the problem.
> 
> Just like in Dr Suess's "The Lorax", she has cut down the very last truffula tree. (Aka our 3TB NAS is now tapped out of space). She filled it up.
> 
> So I just put our recently purchased 9TB NAS into service. I'm busy moving some of her shows over to it, and later this evening I'll set up pyTivo so that new transferred shows go to the new NAS.


More than ever, I'm convinced she's related to my mom.


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## Lensman

Have you considered going to an Unraid box? It sounds like you're savvy enough to enjoy the hobbyist aspect of building your own box and adding drives as you need them. This latter "user upgradeability" with consumer HDDs and the support for HDDs of different sizes makes this a *great* solution for digital hoarders.

I am at 18TB but when I get free weekend I need to put my new Unraid box together and move all the drives over to utilize my 3 new 4TB drives.

It seems amazing that I'm well into the second decade of lurking in your thread. It might be the longest serial thread I've ever participated in!


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## ooMikeo

Wow


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## terpfan1980

Considering how many hours a 1TB drive holds on a TiVo Premiere XL (just in HD programming, not even considering what it would hold in SD content), if your wife filled a 3TB drive and hasn't actually consumed that content then as others have said here, you have a serious problem -- or should I say that your wife has a serious problem here.

30 years out she's never going to watch the content that she's holding on to, and you're going to have kept tossing hardware at the problem because you love her and storage is cheaper than the argument or disappointment over the loss, but seriously this is the kind of thing that people typically are sent to help to get past.


I'm bad at hoarding things digital/electronic, but after a while, it just becomes more stuff that is not needed. Eventually you might have that light bulb go off for your wife, but for as long as you keep trying to keep it from being an issue the underlying problem isn't going to be addressed.


Continued best wishes to you (now, tell me again who you are buying drives from so I can purchase some shares of stock in that company since you'll be a customer for years to come   )


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## timckelley

Well my wife has been acknowledging lately that she spends too much time managing her TiVo recordings, and she's said several times I should move forward with my idea of axing Time Warner and setting up OTA in our house (possibly supplemented with other programming like netflix, amazon, hulu, etc).

I finally got around to ordering a Venturer digital converter which arrived yesterday... I wanted to set it up on one of our S2s to make sure I know how to do it, and that it will work. I just completed the programming of the converter, and the guided setup of the S2, and I think it works perfectly. (channel changing is not as instantaneous as with cable, but I understand that's normal - still just take a couple of seconds or so.) I was pretty surprised that we pick up 18 OTA channels quite clearly. I'm not sure how many of those are good/useful channels...for example a few are in spanish.

I'd love the idea of saving $ by getting rid of Time Warner and am completely on board with this notion. One thing I worry about: my wife has been more heavily in the business of archiving shows than actually watching them, though she certainly does watch TV. Cable works well for archivers, because TiVo will record those shows. But I don't think netflix, amazon, or hulu will let you archive. I did explain to her that those places have their own complete archive that we can dip into whenever needed, so no need for us to archive... they've already done it for us. I hope she can grok this philosophy.

Meanwhile, she can continue to archive OTA shows, and among our 18 channels, there could be a fair amount of worthy content among them. If we really move forward with this, I need to buy a certain amount of (reasonably cheap) equipment.

We have 5 TVs (2 of them HD), and 5 TiVos (2 of them capable of recording in HD format and have built in OTA tuners). I own one cheap rabbit ears antenna, and as of yesterday, one digital converter box (which I got used for $23 from ebay, free shipping, brand name = Venturer).

So I still need:

4 more antenna (I quickly found some for < $8 free shipping, and for I know, there might be better deals than that out there)
2 more digital converter boxes

But I'd be annoyed if I bought all this, canceled our Time Warner account, and then my wife says we really need to go back to cable.

I also told her that if I call to cancel, I expect they'll probably try to talk me out of it, and make an offer to lower our cable bill if we don't leave. It kind of sounds like my wife would consider such an offer if it were low enough. But I'd never call to cancel on a bluff - if I call, I'm calling because I'm willing to cancel.

So that bring up another problem. What if I buy the above equipment so that I'll be ready for the OTA transition, then call to cancel, they offer an aggressive deal for me to stay, my wife wants to take the deal, and then I'm stuck with this wasted equipment I just bought.

I wonder if I could call to cancel as of some future effective date to give me time to acquire the equipment, so that if we change our mind and don't quit cable, I have the option not to buy the equipment.

I may be worrying about nothing, because I think one reason the OTA attracts my wife is because the amount of recordable content won't be so massively huge, and she feels like it'll induce her to spend less time recording stuff.


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## bareyb

Hey you never know. Cutting the cord might be just thing to help her break free of her habitual archiving. Your last sentence kind of makes me think even your wife is getting a little sick of the habit. If it doesn't work out you can always go back /shrug. All you'll be out is a little time. If it cures or lessens the effects of the hoarding, it'll be worth it.


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## MauriAnne

timckelley said:


> I wonder if I could call to cancel as of some future effective date to give me time to acquire the equipment, so that if we change our mind and don't quit cable, I have the option not to buy the equipment.


My dad has Time Warner and I was helping him with a problem. As I was researching, one of the things I read said you got the best deals from TWC if you cancelled with an effective date in the future. The post said that gave them time to contact you and make you better offers than the normal retention folks who answered the phone. And apparently, they're happy if you call to un-cancel as well in case the equipment doesn't work or your wife gets cold feet.


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## timckelley

So, I could have this all put in motion, and then I go to order the equipment, and a few days later, but before the termination date is reached, I get a call from TWC with an offer, but I've already ordered the equipment. I guess this could still be the same type of problem I was worried about. I was assuming that by the conclusion of my phone call, I'd know if we're really cancelling or not, but it sounds like with future termination dates, I can't assume that.

I did tell my wife this morning that our kitchen TiVo is all set up with OTA, and I was hoping to get impressions from her on how much she likes it, and if it's okay to set up the whole house like that. She apparently doesn't have time to learn how to use it (not that it takes much training... I tried to show her the dashes in the channel numbers, but she didn't have time to listen to that), she told me to talk to her about it this evening.

Maybe when she thinks about it, she'll say to cut TWC counteroffer or no counteroffer, which would simplify things. Actually I need to figure out if I'm under a contract first... I don't think I am, but I'm not positive.

Actually I do have a bundled deal of internet + cable, and my idea is to go to internet only. Maybe they'll somewhat raise my cable price for not being in a bundle anymore, which I guess is okay, since our monthly bill will still drop, but if they charge too much for internet, I'll shop elsewhere for good internet deals. I'd prefer cable based internet though, because it works better with our ooma telephone.


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## ZeoTiVo

so what happened? Have you cut TWC? Does your wife archive less? Is she in withdrawal?


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## sushikitten

Or are you planning on buying the new TiVo mega?


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## timckelley

ZeoTiVo said:


> so what happened? Have you cut TWC? Does your wife archive less? Is she in withdrawal?


To recall all the stuff that happened:

TWC made me a counteroffer when I told them I was cutting them, and their offer was even lower than AT&T's deal. (I was going to cut Time Warner totally: internet and TV, and get AT&T internet.) Meanwhile, we did a free trial subscription of Netflix, and my wife did watch a fair amount of it.

When the trial ended, I asked her if she liked it enough stop the cable TV. She started balking, and said there were channels she didn't want to lose. Many times, I've mention ed that when you switch packages, you lose some channels but gain others, and hopefully the others would have content she'd enjoy as much, plus if Netflix doesn't, there's Hulu and other sources.

Meanwhile, the counteroffer I got from Time Warner was for internet plus analog only TV for a very low price, and when my wife heard that, and realized the channels she likes are mostly available on analog, she wanted to go that route.

I personally hate watching analog, but I was already on board with going OTA only, so what I did is hookup my small set top $8 antenna, one I've had for years, to my TV only (not hers), and we went with the counteroffer, not renewing netflix. As most shows I watch are available OTA, I'm getting the HD quality I like through my antenna, but my wife is putting up with lower quality, but she's never minded that.

One thing that went to waste is that as I was preparing for the transition, I had gotten a good deal on an attic antenna, which I tested and works great. My plan (which I got assistance on in a different TCF thread) was to run a cable from it to my outside cable box, and have every TV in the house given access to this antenna. But without dropping Time Warner cable, I'd have to co-mingle a TW signal with an OTA signal on the same coax network[1], which I hear is a difficult proposition, so my attic antenna is sitting up there unused.  Maybe one day my wife will eventually agree to drop Time Warner, at which time I can put this attic antenna into service.

As for archiving, I do think she's archiving less than she used to (but she still archives). She also seems to watch more TV she used to watch.

[1]Even if we keep Time Warner roadrunner internet and drop cable TV, the attic antenna will still work. I can open the cable box on my outside wall, and run the TW signal to my study, avoiding all the splitters in that box, then configure the splitters so that all the other coax ports on on the coax network, separate from the internet signal, so no co-mingling need occur. A sticky point though is that I'm using MOCA to distribute my internet signal, so under this setup MOCA won't work, so maybe I'd want to run some ethernet wire from my study's router to other rooms, and dump the MOCA. I'd have to do a fair amount of crawling around in the attic, but maybe it would be worth it.



sushikitten said:


> Or are you planning on buying the new TiVo mega?


To be honest, I've not heard of this device. But I don't think we're going to buy any more TiVos anytime soon, as we already have 5 TiVos in the house.


----------



## JWhites

Tim, check it out http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=520748
24 TB of storage and six tuners. Could very well replace some of those other TiVo's dude.


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## mattack

Wait, do you really mean analog? Nowadays? I like(d) the "just split the cable" factor of analog, and analog degradation is much better..


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## unitron

timckelley said:


> ...
> Meanwhile, the counteroffer I got from Time Warner was for internet plus analog only TV for a very low price, and when my wife heard that, and realized the channels she likes are mostly available on analog, she wanted to go that route...


Is that just channels 2-13 analog, or from 2 up into the '70s or '80s with all your local broadcasters plus some non-broadcast stuff like USA or TNT?

And if you don't want to post it here, could you PM me what you're paying for that package? TWC has decided that we're made of magically replicating solid gold and that they need to be shaving even more off of us each month, and I need some leverage.


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## JWhites

I wouldn't think in this day and age _any_ cable channel still broadcasted in analog. I feel sick now.


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## dlfl

JWhites said:


> I wouldn't think in this day and age _any_ cable channel still broadcasted in analog. I feel sick now.


It's still commonly done on TWC systems -- I'm surprised too. In the 6 Mhz bandwidth required for an analog channel they could do 2 HD and 2 SD digital channels.


unitron said:


> Is that just channels 2-13 analog, or from 2 up into the '70s or '80s with all your local broadcasters plus some non-broadcast stuff like USA or TNT?
> .......


The analog channels on TWC are 2 thru roughly 70 and include a lot of cable-only programming.


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## timckelley

unitron said:


> Is that just channels 2-13 analog, or from 2 up into the '70s or '80s with all your local broadcasters plus some non-broadcast stuff like USA or TNT?
> 
> And if you don't want to post it here, could you PM me what you're paying for that package? TWC has decided that we're made of magically replicating solid gold and that they need to be shaving even more off of us each month, and I need some leverage.


I now get channels at least up to the 70's (though I could swear there are some in the 80's, but now quite sure if it goes up that far). This includes the Disney Channel, which my wife really didn't want to lose, and it also includes ESPN, which is kind of nice.

I was paying, including taxes, fees and everything, for my internet and cable TV a total of $114.08 per month, but now it's only $76.62


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## thewebgal

Don't cut the recordings, cut the husband!

Get a computer with a really big raid/hard drive, copy all the recordings to the computer, 
set up Streambaby so they can be played back from the computer, 
and WIPE the TIVO drive so you can start fresh!

My Roamio with a 3TB drive had 300+ hours of HD recording capability ...
if you are doing Standard Def recordings, its probably something like a Thousand hours capability ...!


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## joe.masters

Amen!


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## ncted

timckelley said:


> I now get channels at least up to the 70's (though I could swear there are some in the 80's, but now quite sure if it goes up that far). This includes the Disney Channel, which my wife really didn't want to lose, and it also includes ESPN, which is kind of nice.
> 
> I was paying, including taxes, fees and everything, for my internet and cable TV a total of $114.08 per month, but now it's only $76.62


Around here, TWC is removing the analog channels and requiring people to get digital boxes to receive the formerly analog channels. No more plugging the coax into your TV to get cable, unless your TV has a cable card slot.


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## timckelley

I assume the price would go up then from my current setup. If that happens, my vote is to dump cable TV, and use antenna + internet. I just haven't gotten my wife to sign on to this idea.


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## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> I now get channels at least up to the 70's (though I could swear there are some in the 80's, but now quite sure if it goes up that far). This includes the Disney Channel, which my wife really didn't want to lose, and it also includes ESPN, which is kind of nice. I was paying, including taxes, fees and everything, for my internet and cable TV a total of $114.08 per month, but now it's only $76.62


Also just a thought. If you have a Cablecard and TiVo you can have it remap the analog channels you get to their digital equivilents and sometimes it even activates the HD versions like ESPN, for no additional costs except maybe a couple bucks for the cc.


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## JWhites

Fofer said:


> Yep, that and a bunch of TiVo Minis would be a great new setup.  :up:


Absolutely. I think that was even a recommendation on one if the threads here or on tivo.com, since I think they eliminated the client cap.


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## aaronwt

Analog? Really? I didn't realize any of the larger cable system were still using Analog.


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## JWhites

thewebgal said:


> Don't cut the recordings, cut the husband!


What? Boo :down:


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## unitron

timckelley said:


> I now get channels at least up to the 70's (though I could swear there are some in the 80's, but now quite sure if it goes up that far). This includes the Disney Channel, which my wife really didn't want to lose, and it also includes ESPN, which is kind of nice.
> 
> I was paying, including taxes, fees and everything, for my internet and cable TV a total of $114.08 per month, but now it's only $76.62


What do they call the internet package you get, and what speed do they advertise?

You didn't have to switch phone service to them, did you?

And are you sure that you weren't given an introductory price that goes up in 6 months?

And are they making you pay cable modem rent, or did you already own your own?


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## kokishin

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.
> 
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


My wife is the same way! I have to delete old recording in the middle of the night while she is sleeping. If she notices it, I just tell her the disk must be too full or the recording expired.

PC=10!


----------



## timckelley

unitron said:


> What do they call the internet package you get, and what speed do they advertise?


I have their "extreme internet" package. This was another inducement they gave me to not go to AT&T. I had been getting standard internet (15 mbps), but now I have 30 mbps, despite the substantial price drop they gave me.



unitron said:


> You didn't have to switch phone service to them, did you?


No, and I wouldn't want to, since I pay $0 per month for my landline through ooma. (I don't even pay taxes or fees, as I bought the original ooma core/hub model.)



unitron said:


> And are you sure that you weren't given an introductory price that goes up in 6 months?


After we went all through the deal, he admitted it's only guaranteed for 6 months, but he invited me to call back after 6 months and try to get another 6 month discount. I figure worst case scenario, if they jack up the prices a lot, I can still dump them.



unitron said:


> And are they making you pay cable modem rent, or did you already own your own?


No, I already own my own modem, so the price I mention is the total I'm paying (including taxes and fees.)


----------



## wmcbrine

Since people have mentioned the TiVo Mega, I feel I should point out that, AFAICT, it's based on the Roamio Plus/Pro architecture, which means it will _only_ work with digital cable -- not analog, and not OTA. The base Roamio (four tuners) and the Roamio OTA are the only current models that will do OTA, and the last model that did analog was the two-tuner Premiere.


----------



## timckelley

wmcbrine said:


> Since people have mentioned the TiVo Mega, I feel I should point out that, AFAICT, it's based on the Roamio Plus/Pro architecture, which means it will _only_ work with digital cable -- not analog, and not OTA. The base Roamio (four tuners) and the Roamio OTA are the only current models that will do OTA, and the last model that did analog was the two-tuner Premiere.


I would really hate using a DVR that doesn't support OTA, as that's where I get most of my shows. Admittedly that's not true for me wife, but she's getting 100% of her shows from analog cable right now, so the TiVo Mega sounds like a no-deal for her too.

I suppose at some point we may have to make a decision, if Time Warner ever stops their analog programming, and forces us to go digital or nothing. I personally would choose nothing, and go OTA, but I have a feeling my wife and I may have conflicting opinions if/when that happens.

If somehow, she wins the argument, and she wants digital cable, then I suppose TiVo Mega could play a role in that. I guess it boils down to, before I'd ever get a TiVo Mega, I'd need an agreement on what we'd do in the above hypothetical situation. I lean against doing it, because if I were to have this conversation today, and my wife says "I could never dump Time Warner. If they stop analog, we're just going to have to go digital", things could change between now and when analog goes away. For all we know, by that time there could be other internet based offerings she likes so much, she'll no longer care about digital cable.

It's sounds like TiVo Mega is for people who are willing to make a long term commitment to digital cable. With so many people cutting the cord these days, and so many other ways that keep cropping up to get TV into your house, I just wonder how successful TiVo Mega's going to be.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> ...
> No, I already own my own modem, so the price I mention is the total I'm paying (including taxes and fees.)


What brand/model #, how long owned, how do you get along with it?

(I have to get Earthlink through TWC if I want faster than dial-up, and they just started charging modem rent along with an analog package cable TV price hike)


----------



## timckelley

unitron said:


> What brand/model #, how long owned, how do you get along with it?
> 
> (I have to get Earthlink through TWC if I want faster than dial-up, and they just started charging modem rent along with an analog package cable TV price hike)


I bought a Motorola SURFboard SB5101U DOCSIS 2.0 Cable Modem, from amazon on 12-12-2012, for $24.99 + $5.49 shipping = $30.48 total, and I've not had an ounce of trouble with it. It's worked perfectly this whole time.

I'm doing this, like you, to avoid paying monthly rent for a modem.


----------



## HerronScott

timckelley said:


> I have their "extreme internet" package. This was another inducement they gave me to not go to AT&T. I had been getting standard internet (15 mbps), but now I have 30 mbps, despite the substantial price drop they gave me.


TWC's standard is 15Mbps and they are calling 30Mbps Extreme? Seems slow by most standards today.

Comcast standard has been 25Mbps, Blast is 50Mbps and Extreme is 105Mbps and I believe they are upgrading Blast and Extreme to higher speeds (105Mbps and 150Mbps).

Scott


----------



## ncted

HerronScott said:


> TWC's standard is 15Mbps and they are calling 30Mbps Extreme? Seems slow by most standards today.
> 
> Comcast standard has been 25Mbps, Blast is 50Mbps and Extreme is 105Mbps and I believe they are upgrading Blast and Extreme to higher speeds (105Mbps and 150Mbps).
> 
> Scott


Yeah, TWC has been pretty slow in rolling out their Maxx service. We're supposed to get it where I live "soon." My current Extreme service will go from 30/5 to 200/20. I plan to downgrade to Turbo (100/10) when the time comes. My SB6121 will only go up to 172Mb downstream anyway.

-Ted


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## ncted

timckelley said:


> I have their "extreme internet" package. This was another inducement they gave me to not go to AT&T. I had been getting standard internet (15 mbps), but now I have 30 mbps, despite the substantial price drop they gave me.


Depending on where you live in Austin, you may be able to get way more than 30Mb:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/cont...twc-begins-major-internet-speed-increase.html


----------



## Bigg

timckelley said:


> I'm not sure if the 1 TB expander you mention would be as cheap per byte as going the NAS route would. But there is something to be said for the 1 TB expander: One of my wife's TiVos is a TiVo Premier, and unlike her 2 S2's, the Premier automatically copy protects a bunch (but not all) of her shows on it, preventing her from moving them to the NAS. I suspect that expander would give her some breathing room for dealing with that problem.


Your TiVo is not magically copy protecting things. For regular cable channels, they are improperly marked by TWC, as they are hostile towards TiVo for unknown reasons. On a cable provider that is properly marking channels like Comcast or Verizon, nothing except premiums are copy protected (the Premiums require it be contract).

It's also amazing that TWC still has analog, and that this thread is still going!

And I think I have a problem with 50 hours of stuff on my Premiere XL4 that's been accumulating for a while!


----------



## dlfl

Bigg said:


> Your TiVo is not magically copy protecting things. For regular cable channels, they are improperly marked by TWC, as they are hostile towards TiVo for unknown reasons. ........


It's been established over and over again that TWC is within their legal and regulatory rights to copy protect as they do. I guess "improper" could have various definitions and if you define it as "I don't like it" then it is improper. I don't like it either.

Gee, I wonder why TWC would be hostile to Tivo, other than TiVo CableCARD and Tuning Adapter are support PITA's and TiVo's don't support VOD? 

If most regions had effective competition for cable TV, you would see a much nicer TWC.


----------



## Bigg

dlfl said:


> It's been established over and over again that TWC is within their legal and regulatory rights to copy protect as they do. I guess "improper" could have various definitions and if you define it as "I don't like it" then it is improper. I don't like it either.
> 
> Gee, I wonder why TWC would be hostile to Tivo, other than TiVo CableCARD and Tuning Adapter are support PITA's and TiVo's don't support VOD?
> 
> If most regions had effective competition for cable TV, you would see a much nicer TWC.


TWC is not doing anything illegal. It is still the wrong way to do it, since we know it is not required, and is simply an anti-competitive move to screw over TiVo users who aren't paying TWC's exorbitant DVR fees. While improper copy flags provide zero benefit to TWC/BHN except for screwing over TiVo users, SDV is a whole different ballgame, as it actually provide bandwidth benefits to their network, it just happens to also not work well with TiVo.

TiVo does support cable VOD, TWC chooses not to support their VOD system on TiVo. Comcast has chosen to support their VOD system on TiVo. FIOS is a bit of a different ballgame, since TiVo could certainly decode their IP-VOD streams, but it might take some creativity to get everything talking in the first place to make it work.

If Comcast gets TWC, maybe they will fully Comcastize the TWC systems with an HD channel purge so that they can nuke SDV (and bring them back later through the H.264 conversion, which should get Comcast from their current 120 HD's up to around the 200 HD level that TWC is at now), fix the improper copy flags, and roll out XoD on TiVo. That would be a dream come true for TWC-TiVo users.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

dlfl said:


> If most regions had effective competition for cable TV, you would see a much nicer TWC.


or TWC being bought by comcast


----------



## DevdogAZ

JWhites said:


> I wouldn't think in this day and age any cable channel still broadcasted in analog. I feel sick now.





aaronwt said:


> Analog? Really? I didn't realize any of the larger cable system were still using Analog.


Cox in Phoenix still broadcasts analog channels. I get all the SD stuff from 2 - 70 via analog. That includes ESPN, Disney, USA, etc. The main cable channels I can't get via analog that I wish I could are BBCA, FXX, and Pac 12 Network.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

DevdogAZ said:


> Cox in Phoenix still broadcasts analog channels. I get all the SD stuff from 2 - 70 via analog. That includes ESPN, Disney, USA, etc. The main cable channels I can't get via analog that I wish I could are BBCA, FXX, and Pac 12 Network.


Same for me, TWC in NC, I mainly just went digital because I wanted the features of the Roamio model


----------



## ncted

ncted said:


> Depending on where you live in Austin, you may be able to get way more than 30Mb:
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/cont...twc-begins-major-internet-speed-increase.html


http://www.twcableuntangled.com/2014/10/twc-maxx-hits-austin-milestone-la-nyc-upgrades-continue/


----------



## harlequinnature

You can make her choose deleting her shows or buying her own tivo? Maybe she'll realize that it's a waste having two and decide to let you delete her recordings. It's worth a try.


----------



## JWhites

I still think it's a good idea to make her get her own TiVo and her pay her own subscription and the two TiVo's aren't linked on the same account, that way when she fills hers up it'll be her own dilemma to deal with. Just make sure you change the channel on your TiVo and hide the remote so she can't start recording on yours.


----------



## lessd

JWhites said:


> I still think it's a good idea to make her get her own TiVo and her pay her own subscription and the two TiVo's aren't linked on the same account, that way when she fills hers up it'll be her own dilemma to deal with. Just make sure you change the channel on your TiVo and hide the remote so she can't start recording on yours.


And a separate bedroom and then a good divorce lawyer


----------



## Bigg

Yeah, I'm trying to get to the point, where excepting special events like the Olympics and regular news programs that I don't watch, I keep my backlog down to ~10 or so hours, and watch most stuff within 2 weeks of it recording.


----------



## timckelley

Well here are several updates to what's been happening.

As of today, Time Warner in Austin will no longer broadcast analog programming, so I have to switch to digital or dump Time Warner cable. I got my wife to agree to dump them, but I could tell she wasn't all that happy about it, so when I called to dump them, them made another pitch to not lose me, and their pitch was good enough that my wife seems happier if we stick with them. But here's the new setup we agree to have:

Her TiVo Premiere, and my TiVo HD will receive the digital signals from Time Warner
My wife's 2 S2's will be connected to our house antenna only, with the tuning accomplished via 2 Venturer digital tuners I own, controlled by IR cable by her S2's. My wife is completely happy with the setup, because she typically only records OTA stuff on her S2's anyhow.

Here's the deal Time Warner offerred... they're continuing / extending the deal I negotiated them last year, pricewise, when I threatened to dump them, plus they're going to let us use two Multistream cable cards for zero rent (at least for 6 months they will), and then the rent becomes something like $6.50 or $7.00 for the two cards, unless I negotiate them down on it again later. Plus, at no extra cost they're upgrading our internet from 30 mbs up to at least 100 mps (it might even be 150 mps, but I can't quite remember).

I did finish climbing up the apex of the rafters in my attic, and mounted my antenna in front of some slats in the wall, facing the TV towers. We also reorganized the house so that the TiVo Premier is still in the family room, but her two S2's, plus my TiVo HD are now all in a spare bedroom. We typically watch those TiVos at different times of day, so I think that will work out.

I ran my antenna cable to just that one room (via the cable box outside) then, and all three TiVos are getting the antenna signal. (So my TiVO is actually getting Time Warner digital and antenna both).

Later, if we dump Time Warner, I can easily route the antenna to the family room if I want. I also poked a hole in the wall between the 3 TiVo room and my study (which is where my router is), and I ran ethernet + coax over. (The reason for the coax is because there was only one coax port in the 3 TiVo room, but I wanted to have digital cable + antenna there, so I need two coaxes for that, and my study already has 3 coax ports, two of which weren't being used, so I tapped into one of them, and did the necessary hookup in my outside cable box. the nice thing is that port was hidden under my desk near the wall, so there's no ugly wiring going across the floor or anything.)

So, that means for the first time, 3 of our 4 TiVos are connected with ethernet, which I quite like. Plus, I successfully walked through my attic to the family room TiVo, and I spotted the coax that heads down to it, I feel like I could run ethernet there to if I want, which I think I'll likely do in the near future. I guess then I'll stop using MOCA when that happens.

Now here's the bad news of what's going on:

1) One of my wife's S2 stopped working - probably a bad hard drive. We have a back up S2, also lifetimed, so I put it into service to replace it, but it also seems to have a bad hard drive. (At least I assume it does.) So we have one working S2, and two broken S2's, and my 3 TiVo room is setup to handle two working S2's, so I guess I'll be working on replacing a hard drive soon to get it working again.

2) After Time Warner talked me into staying, which was just last Saturday, I went to their office that day to get two M-cards, and they only had one in stock, and they said they'd call me when they got another. They never called me, and here we are today, which is the day we're losing analog. I just called to see if they got one, but all calls are routed to a call center in Irving, Texas, and there is no way for for me to talk to anybody by phone to see if they have another M card. I have to physically drive to the office and stand in line (which is sometimes a long line) only to possibly be told they still don't have one. Oh well, I'll be going today on my lunch hour to see. Fortunately I work quite close to their office.

3) Last night I called them at about 10:30 pm to activate the one card we do have (which I put in my wife's TiVo Premier.) Their technical support is open 24/7, but what I didn't know was that the cable card activation department closes at 10 pm. So lady did what she could to attempt to activate it. Result: the card is only picking up local OTA channels, so I have to call back today to try again. 

Question: I don't have a tuning adapter, and last year I was told I needed one to use a cable card, but the lady yesterday said no, I only need one for on demand programming or some premium channels that we don't have, so that in my case I don't really need a tuning adapter. That's good news to me, as I'd rather not have one if I don't need one, but I was curious if you experts agree with her assessment.


----------



## timckelley

Fofer said:


> DOCSIS 3.0 is where it's at. Required on Time Warner if you want the fastest speeds. I currently get 100 Mbps download speeds.





timckelley said:


> Plus, at no extra cost they're upgrading our internet from 30 mbs up to at least 100 mps (it might even be 150 mps, but I can't quite remember).


Uh oh... I'm pretty sure our modem (which I bought years ago, as I don't like paying a month rent for a modem) is DOCSIS 2.0. It sounds like you're saying I might not get to take advantage of my higher speed without getting a DOCSIS 3.0 modem then. Strange how the retention guy made no mention of this to me.


----------



## timckelley

Here I sit in a mightily long line at TWC. 40 people in front of me.


----------



## tatergator1

timckelley said:


> Question: I don't have a tuning adapter, and last year I was told I needed one to use a cable card, but the lady yesterday said no, I only need one for on demand programming or some premium channels that we don't have, so that in my case I don't really need a tuning adapter. That's good news to me, as I'd rather not have one if I don't need one, but I was curious if you experts agree with her assessment.


What channel package did you ultimately end up with? I've lost track of what you're actually paying for. In most all TWC regions, having a Tuning Adapter is a good idea. With that said, the typically deliver the popular cable channels via linear QAM and there is no need for a Tuning Adapter for those channels. These include the local broadcast channels and most of the lower-tier cable channels.

Getting TWC to tell you whats on SDV in your area is a nightmare, mainly because general support is clueless to all thing CableCard and Tuning Adapter, so the best way to determine if you really need one is to get the CableCard properly setup and then see if you get all the channels you're paying for.


----------



## timckelley

I get what they call starter TV + standard TV, though right now my cable card is only picking up starter TV.

The woman at the counter today said she thought everybody with a cable card needs a tuning adapter, but I could tell she's not an expert on it, so I'm not taking her statement with any grains of salt. Having said that, she gave me one and suggested I try hooking it up to see if that fixes my channel problems.

I'm only getting channels 01-20 right now, which makes me think (in view of tatergator's post) that there's more problems happening to me than not having a tuning adapter.

Bad news: they still have no spare cable cards, and they checked the Round Rock office, and they don't have any either. She also said it's been awhile since any have been shipped from the warehouse, and she has no idea why. She said she'll look into it, but can't give me any time frame one when they'll have one.

Meanwhile, starting today, my analog channels are disappearing. They say they won't go en masses, but in in phases, starting with today. They're theory is that as channels slowly disappear, people will call in asking where their channels are, and maybe they won't call all at one. (To be fair, they did give us lots of warnings about this, but a lot of people don't read the warnings.)

I guess it's not that big a deal, as it's my TiVo that's missing the cable card, not my wife's, but I figure I'd be within my rights to ask for a prorated refund due to missing channels. I told the lady I was going to disconnect service initially, and the only reason I didn't is because of the offer the salesman made to me last Saturday, and that offer included cable cards, which are not being delivered to me.

Say, here's another tuning adapter question. I could swear I remember the tuning adapter (back when I had one) being plugged into a USB port in the back of the TiVo. The tuning adapter she gave me included a power brick and power cord, but no USB cord. Am I misremembering? Is it enough to simply power it on, and then plug the coax from the wall to the input, and then another coax from the output of the TA to the input of the TiVo?


----------



## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> I get what they call starter TV + standard TV, though right now my cable card is only picking up starter TV. The woman at the counter today said she thought everybody with a cable card needs a tuning adapter, but I could tell she's not an expert on it, so I'm not taking her statement with any grains of salt. Having said that, she gave me one and suggested I try hooking it up to see if that fixes my channel problems. I'm only getting channels 01-20 right now, which makes me think (in view of tatergator's post) that there's more problems happening to me than not having a tuning adapter. Bad news: they still have no spare cable cards, and they checked the Round Rock office, and they don't have any either. She also said it's been awhile since any have been shipped from the warehouse, and she has no idea why. She said she'll look into it, but can't give me any time frame one when they'll have one. Meanwhile, starting today, my analog channels are disappearing. They say they won't go en masses, but in in phases, starting with today. They're theory is that as channels slowly disappear, people will call in asking where their channels are, and maybe they won't call all at one. (To be fair, they did give us lots of warnings about this, but a lot of people don't read the warnings.) I guess it's not that big a deal, as it's my TiVo that's missing the cable card, not my wife's, but I figure I'd be within my rights to ask for a prorated refund due to missing channels. I told the lady I was going to disconnect service initially, and the only reason I didn't is because of the offer the salesman made to me last Saturday, and that offer included cable cards, which are not being delivered to me. Say, here's another tuning adapter question. I could swear I remember the tuning adapter (back when I had one) being plugged into a USB port in the back of the TiVo. The tuning adapter she gave me included a power brick and power cord, but no USB cord. Am I misremembering? Is it enough to simply power it on, and then plug the coax from the wall to the input, and then another coax from the output of the TA to the input of the TiVo?


No, you're correct remembering that a USB cable must be present between the TiVo and TA. That is how the TiVo tells the TA what channel it needs to tune to and then the TA tells the TiVo what frequency it's using.

Also, since you're only getting channels 2-20 but supposed to get standard too, it sounds like you may have a trap on your coax line at the street, not allowing the higher signals to come through. Check into that.


----------



## timckelley

Well a year ago I used to have a cable card, and it did get the higher channels, so I suspect there's not a trapping problem.

Darn, I guess once more I have stand in line to get the USB cord they forgot to give me. I'll need to do that anyhow when the second cable card finally shows up, but my wife will be perturbed if the only reason her TiVo doesn't work tonight is the lack of a USB cord.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> Uh oh... I'm pretty sure our modem (which I bought years ago, as I don't like paying a month rent for a modem) is DOCSIS 2.0. It sounds like you're saying I might not get to take advantage of my higher speed without getting a DOCSIS 3.0 modem then. Strange how the retention guy made no mention of this to me.


Did he mention you could buy a modem on their compatible list and break even in a year on not paying them rent on one?


----------



## timckelley

unitron said:


> Did he mention you could buy a modem on their compatible list and break even in a year on not paying them rent on one?


No; the subject of modems didn't even come up. He just said he was upgrading my speed without upgrading the price tag.


----------



## timckelley

I just got off from a chat session, and they tell me I need either an HDMI or an RCA cable to connect the tuning adapter to the TiVo. I'm very skeptical, as I recall it being a USB cable. Hopefully I can get them to issue me the correct cable, unless I don't even need the tuning adapter, in which case I'll return it.


----------



## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> I just got off from a chat session, and they tell me I need either an HDMI or an RCA cable to connect the tuning adapter to the TiVo. I'm very skeptical, as I recall it being a USB cable. Hopefully I can get them to issue me the correct cable, unless I don't even need the tuning adapter, in which case I'll return it.


They're idiots! No, a TA doesn't even have HDMI or RCA connections on it! You need a USB cable. The same type used for printers so if you have one laying around the house you can use that or run to Walmart or radio shack for a few bucks. No need to wait in line again at TWC.


----------



## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> Well a year ago I used to have a cable card, and it did get the higher channels, so I suspect there's not a trapping problem. Darn, I guess once more I have stand in line to get the USB cord they forgot to give me. I'll need to do that anyhow when the second cable card finally shows up, but my wife will be perturbed if the only reason her TiVo doesn't work tonight is the lack of a USB cord.


That doesn't mean they haven't installed a trap on your line since you gave back that Cablecard a year ago. Which package did you change to when you returned it? If just the base lifeline package or internet only then they most certainly added a trap to your line!


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## timckelley

I changed to their starter + standard package, but as of now, that package is digital. Back when I signed up for it last year, it was an analog service.


----------



## timckelley

HarperVision said:


> They're idiots! No, a TA doesn't even have HDMI or RCA connections on it! You need a USB cable. The same type used for printers so if you have one laying around the house you can use that or run to Walmart or radio shack for a few bucks. No need to wait in line again at TWC.


Oh, you mean where it's USB on one end, and a small square on the other end? I think one of my printers uses that type of cable.


----------



## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> I changed to their starter + standard package, but as of now, that package is digital. Back when I signed up for it last year, it was an analog service.


I mean a year ago when you said you used to have a cablecard, not what you switched to now.


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## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> Oh, you mean where it's USB on one end, and a small square on the other end? I think one of my printers uses that type of cable.


 yes


----------



## timckelley

HarperVision said:


> I mean a year ago when you said you used to have a cablecard, not what you switched to now.


Back then, I think I might have had more channels, but there were never any premium channels. Looking at their packages, the one above what I have now is "preferred TV". But I'm not quite sure if that's what I had, as maybe the reason my channel line up shrunk when I switched to analog, might simply be because I no longer had a cable card.

Anyway, my plan is to call this evening while their cable card department is there (meaning before 10 pm), and I'm hoping they can get it figured out while I'm on the phone with them.


----------



## Bigg

You could always try the TiVos without a TA and see what channels you get. If there's channels you want that you're not getting, then hook up the TAs.

DOCSIS 2 maxes out at 38mbps theoretical, and the highest package I know of that's been provisioned on a D2 modem in the last 10 year (there were uncapped packages back in the late '90s) is 25/5mbps on Comcast, which was provisioned at 27/6, and even that's way beyond what D2 should be doing, and I doubt a D2 system could ever handle that, but a D2 modem on a D3 system with mostly D3 modems can squeak out 25mbps most of the time.


----------



## timckelley

Fofer said:


> Yep, you'll want DOCSIS 3.0. I bought my own modem so I wouldn't have to pay TWC's ever-increasing rental fee. I got the ARRIS / Motorola SurfBoard SB6183 and now have 300 Mbps download and 20 Mbps upload speeds.


Wow; I just found out the plan they put me in without charging extra is the "Ultimate 200" plan, which gives 200 mbps download / 20 mbps upload, but when I did a speed test with my Docsis 2.0 modem, I'm getting less then 16 mbps download. The modem you bought is one of the two they recommend for getting speeds in excess of 100 mbps download. So I think I should buy one of those two modems.

My wife told me yesterday that she thought we had faster internet, and she's not seeing it. Now I see why.

Edit: I think yours is the less expensive of the two, at $129.99. Their website says the leasing charge is $8 per month, which makes it a slightly over 16 month breakeven point to buy vs lease... less if they raise their prices in the next 16 months. I know I've used my current modem for years with no problems, so it seems a reasonably safe bet I'd get my money's worth by buying.


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## jrtroo

It was night and day when I went to a 3.0 modem. It eliminated a sluggishness I did not even realize I had. Completely worth it, I would do it asap...


----------



## timckelley

The only sticking point is that as of last night, I got the cable card working, and now my wife has a bunch of new channels, which ironically she doesn't like. I'm a little unclear why - maybe she thinks the large lineup will beckon her to do more recording than she'd prefer to do. So... she still suggests that she might be open to at some point getting rid of Time Warner cable, and going back to my original plan of OTA + internet.

If that were to happen, we'd lose our bundling discount, and the price of internet would go up, and if the price went up enough for us to switch internet providers, she's worried that if I buy a $130 modem, we'll be stuck with a modem that's incompatible with the new provider.

Still, I think the main competition is U-verse, which I don't know much about, but I do know they have data caps, while Time Warner doesn't, and I'm not sure if they can match this 120 mbps performance.... In other words, even if we dump Time Warner Cable, and our internet bill goes up, I still might want to keep Time Warner cable, so on the rent vs buy question, I'm still inclined to buy the modem.


----------



## tatergator1

timckelley said:


> The only sticking point is that as of last night, I got the cable card working, and now my wife has a bunch of new channels, which ironically she doesn't like. I'm a little unclear why - maybe she thinks the large lineup will beckon her to do more recording than she'd prefer to do. So... she still suggests that she might be open to at some point getting rid of Time Warner cable, and going back to my original plan of OTA + internet.


You could always remove the extra channels from the guide listing and see if that is better for her. You can still view them manually by entering the channel number, but it would make the list smaller and less overwhelming, if that is in fact the problem.


----------



## timckelley

Good idea.


----------



## Arcady

Or set up a favorite channel list and have that show as default.


----------



## timckelley

By the way, today is Day 2 of the post-analog digital-only era of Austin, and I still don't have a cable card in my TiVo. Since Austin doesn't have one to be found anywhere, they're shipping one to me, and I'm pretty sure they're waiving the normal shipping charges.

The digital conversion, which has been in the works for months seems to have a sloppy implementation imo, since they've been caught with no cable cards to give us customers who are losing our analog service. They've got stacks and stacks of digital tuning converters piled high though for all the live-TV nonDVR watchers.

We TiVo people aren't being paid enough attention to.


----------



## Arcady

If I knew that a digital-only change was coming for months, I wouldn't be in line on the day they switched to get CableCARDs.


----------



## timckelley

Arcady said:


> If I knew that a digital-only change was coming for months, I wouldn't be in line on the day they switched to get CableCARDs.


To be fair, my plan was to dump Time Warner, and 3 days before the switchover, is when they pitched me the counteroffer, and my wife liked it, so this was a last minute decision to stay with Time Warner. That very day I was in line for a cable card (and by the way, the saleman who pitched this to me, said they had them available for my immediate use and that I was welcome to come in that day and get a couple of cards, but he lied - they really didn't have any), and they were out, and then yesterday, the day of the switchover, I was in line again to see any showed up, and they were still out.

I suppose if the cable card shortage drags out, I could still call them and nix it all and say we're leaving them. Having said all this, even if our plan was to go digital all along, I'm not sure I'd've gotten a card a month or two in advance... I may have wanted to stay analog to squeeze out another lower cost month before paying the higher price. (I assume higher price, because they only kept my cost low because I threatened to quit them.)

I suppose it's not that big a deal to me, as I was ready to go OTA anyway, and my TiVo is still connected to my antenna. I just figure we're paying for digital and not fully getting it. But I can probably get a prorata refund, so really I guess I have nothing to complain about. I'm just thinking other customers in my position might have a stronger hankering than I to tune into their channels, so potentially this lack of cards may be a mark of sloppiness on their part.


----------



## mattack

timckelley said:


> Edit: I think yours is the less expensive of the two, at $129.99. Their website says the leasing charge is $8 per month, which makes it a slightly over 16 month breakeven point to buy vs lease... less if they raise their prices in the next 16 months. I know I've used my current modem for years with no problems, so it seems a reasonably safe bet I'd get my money's worth by buying.


I have no idea if it's compatible with Time Warner, but I bought a 
"Motorola SB6120 SURFboard DOCSIS 3.0 eXtreme Broadband Cable Modem"
for $49.99 from a 3rd party seller on Amazon in early 2013.


----------



## Bigg

Fofer said:


> Compatible yes, AFAIK, but only supported for their 100 Mbps speeds.
> 
> Only the 6183 model is supported for their 300 Mbps speeds, so that's the one I got.


Yeah. If I had the misfortune of being on TWC, I would definitely have a 16 channel modem, even if I didn't have the 200 or 300 package, just to have access to those QAMs. Around here, Comcast runs 8x4 (8x1???) channels on their system, so an 8x4 modem is plenty capable. I think Comcast is going to wait until D3.1 to go any farther than they have today (105/150mbps). 105mbps is more than enough for basically anyone for the next few years. When households start having more than 2 or 3 4K video streams going at once, plus other stuff, that might change, but we're several years away from that, and even today's Blast! could probably support 4-5 4K streams with a hardwired gigabit network.


----------



## timckelley

timckelley said:


> This one box has an amazing 12 trillion bytes in it [i.e. 12 TB], with 3 of those trillion for redundant storage per RAID-5 strategy, so really I have use of 9 trillion bytes.
> 
> I now feel digitally wealthy.


I now feel digitally poor. 

Well maybe an exaggeration, but here's the situation. Just 14.5 months later, that 9 trillion bytes has evaporated to less than 5% of that figure, as my wife must have gone to town storing stuff on it.

The first NAS, which has 3 trillion bytes is still online, but I took it for myself to store various computer data files, plus as a general backup area for our home computers. Most of that 3 trillion is still free, so I like having that NAS for my personal use, and see it lasting me a long time. But wife's NAS, the 9 trillion byte one is running out. 

I can't believe 9 trillion bytes could get used up in this time frame.

In fact, I'm in the middle of repairing one of her S2's, and was borrowing the pyTiVo computer to do the work (but currently having problems), and so with pyTiVo down, her main TiVo (the Premier) has filled up and she's about to, or already has, started to lose shows, and she got fairly irritated with me yesterday for the pyTiVo being down, as she wants to archive to make room on her filled up Premier.

So last night, I temporarily restarted pyTiVo until I have time to figure out what's going wrong with my S2 repair. At some point I'll have to power that computer down again, but maybe by then, she'll have offloaded some shows to regain breathing room on her Premier. (BTW, as I recall, I upgraded that Premier years ago, and it has a decently sized HD in it.)

Meanwhile, I told her about how low her NAS is getting, and she said that yes, she can probably delete a bunch of stuff from it, that she doesn't really have to have, so we'll see if she actually does that before her 4.74% drops to much lower than that, or if she comes to me with a request to buy another NAS. If I were to buy another, I'd be tempted to power down her filled up one, to save on electricity, and maybe also that might lengthen the lifetimes of the HDs contained within it.

But it would certainly be nice if she can delete a bunch of stuff like she says, so that I don't have to fork out so soon for another NAS.


----------



## aaronwt

9TB  can go quick. I put a 4TB drive in my KMTTG machine last year and it filled up in a few months. I then replaced it with a 6TB drive earlier this year and it filled the extra space up in a few weeks. Although I could always push it to one of my three unRAID setups. But it's easier to just delete a bunch of stuff.


----------



## bareyb

What if you were to simply go in and start deleting the oldest stuff first, like TiVo does. Would your wife even notice? Personally? I wouldn't even be involved if it were me. If my wife wanted to "hoard" she'd have to learn how to set up a NAS and maintain it herself.


----------



## timckelley

bareyb said:


> Personally? I wouldn't even be involved if it were me. If my wife wanted to "hoard" she'd have to learn how to set up a NAS and maintain it herself.


Had I gone that route, she'd still be burning shelf loads of DVDs (at the beginning it was VHS's which was even more space consuming). I say this because I don't think she'd've ever figured out how to set up an NAS.


----------



## replaytv

I would delete her except if she has a really nice boat. ;- )

http://www.berro.com/joke/funny_matrimonial_ads.htm

Or maybe you could put her in cold storage till her deficiencies can be corrected genetically in the future.


----------



## Bigg

Fofer said:


> Yeah, throwing storage at the problem won't solve it, it's like hoping a Q-tip will plug the hole in the dam. Eventually the dam will just break.
> 
> It's time to have the difficult talk with your wife. The enabling of her digital hoarding must come to an end.


He could throw storage at it basically indefinitely. We're at the point where an individual could put a petabyte of storage in a (well ventilated and well powered) closet, but to what end? From the OP's posts, it seems he is a middle class American, so is that really the best use of his finite resources? If the OP was wealthy, he probably would already have had his IT contractor add more TB of storage to his rack of servers, and wouldn't think twice about it...


----------



## bareyb

timckelley said:


> Had I gone that route, she'd still be burning shelf loads of DVDs (at the beginning it was VHS's which was even more space consuming). I say this because I don't think she'd've ever figured out how to set up an NAS.


As Dr. Phil would say, you're _really_ doing all this _you_, not her. It's starting to make more sense now. I guess you gotta do what you gotta do then. I'd be very tempted to start deleting the oldest stuff rather than buying bigger and bigger drives. In fact, I do that already on my daughter's TiVo. She sets up stuff to KUID and I routinely go in and delete everything except for the last 15 shows. So far, she has never even noticed.


----------



## timckelley

My wife keeps fairly well track of her stuff, and I feel pretty sure it'd provoke her if I did that.


----------



## Arcady

Buy a few 12TB NAS boxes, set them up to archive her stuff, then place a bill for the whole thing on her desk.


----------



## Mikeguy

Fofer said:


> The enabling of her digital hoarding must come to an end.


As one who would if he could, it's not hoarding--it's the preservation of motion picture art (which would take years to view, in the meanwhile more amassing).


----------



## DevdogAZ

Figure out if there are any of the things she's hoarding that are available via other means (streaming, iTunes, DVD, BitTorrent, Usenet, etc.) and then delete all that stuff. No reason for her to store them when other people have already done so and made them easy to access. Tell her that whenever she's ready to watch x, you'll be happy to provide whatever subscription, purchase cost, access is necessary.


----------



## murgatroyd

DevdogAZ said:


> Figure out if there are any of the things she's hoarding that are available via other means (streaming, iTunes, DVD, BitTorrent, Usenet, etc.) and then delete all that stuff. No reason for her to store them when other people have already done so and made them easy to access. Tell her that whenever she's ready to watch x, you'll be happy to provide whatever subscription, purchase cost, access is necessary.


I already suggested that he not force her to archive stuff which was commercially available via DVD, which is one of my rules of thumb about whether to archive a show or not.

I just don't see the point in trying to grab a show and waste my time cutting the commercials out of it when I can buy a better copy. I only grab things which are not likely to be released on DVD.

Fofer's point about commercials also holds ... some of the time.

Since I figured out I can watch certain networks via the xfinity TV Go Android app, for some shows, when space in the To Do list gets tight, I cancel the recordings for the shows which will be available that way. That way I don't have to waste space on the TiVo's hard drive to record a show I'm just going to watch-and-dump. (The downside is not being to FF through the stupid ads, which are shown over and over and over.)


----------



## unitron

I remain convinced that his wife and my mom must have a lot of DNA in common.


----------



## mattack

Heh, I'm at least finally starting to pare down recordings (after almost filling up a 3 TB drive I put in my Roamio several months ago) .. I cancelled "American Crime" last night.. After I finish watching the 2nd CSI Cyber, I may cancel that.

Putting in the 3 TB drive was when I upgraded _most_ of my SPs to HD though. (Mostly various non-prime-time shows are the ones not in HD.. the kinds of news/documentaries/talk shows that I either totally hoard on and/or watch like podcasts at 2x via VLC.) I do wish Tivo natively took bigger than 3 TB with no extra hacking though.

Even though I filled up the 3 TB quickly, in some ways I sort of see the horizon. If I could get a whole season, including "bank up for summer", but watch while the season was on for other shows, then I could see a light at the end of the tunnel for more storage... (Of course this is only for time shifting purposes, ignoring any 'record for keeps' though that's less and less over time for me.)


----------



## Mikeguy

It is amazing how easily that hard drive can get filled up so quickly, and how one might never be able to leave the house again and still not get through the backlog. 

Many, many years ago, when I started my first fulltime job, I purchased a VCR and recorded Julia Child cooking shows during the week while I was at work, for weekend viewing. Suddenly, my weekends included the task of watching all those shows, which took substantial time, until I forced myself to recognize that I didn't _ have to_ watch them all and spend my weekends indoors.


----------



## timckelley

Well I reminded her that her 9TB storage is running low, and we'll need a decision soon on whether she's going to do some significant deleting, or if we need a third NAS. She told me that due to her busy schedule, she needs to defer that decision about one month.

She may run out by then, but there is a way to last that long, because most of my 3TB NAS is still free space [1], so I suppose I could lend part of that to her until she makes her decision.

I know this is kind of similar or analogous to lending her part of my TiVo, which I know TCF regards as a dangerous move, putting my digital liberty in jeopardy, but i figure worst case scenario is she eats up half my NAS, at which time I put my foot down and make the decision that we get the third NAS, then move her trespassing data over to it, and re-liberate my NAS.

[1] if only she could manage her space as well as I. In the time it took her to fill up 9 TB, I've only made a very small dent in my 3 TB.


----------



## HarperVision

timckelley said:


> Well I reminded her that her 9TB storage is running low, and we'll need a decision soon on whether she's going to do some significant deleting, or if we need a third NAS. She told me that due to her busy schedule, she needs to defer that decision about one month. She may run out by then, but there is a way to last that long, because most of my 3TB NAS is still free space [1], so I suppose I could lend part of that to her until she makes her decision. I know this is kind of similar or analogous to lending her part of my TiVo, which I know TCF regards as a dangerous move, putting my digital liberty in jeopardy, but i figure worst case scenario is she eats up half my NAS, at which time I put my foot down and make the decision that we get the third NAS, then move her trespassing data over to it, and re-liberate my NAS. [1] if only she could manage her space as well as I. In the time it took her to fill up 9 TB, I've only made a very small dent in my 3 TB.


Haha, and you guys think I am the crazy one for just being a Christian! I can't believe people go through this much trouble and expense for something as essentially meaningless as TV!

(This isn't really directed at you personally timckelley, just an observation that popped into my head while reading your post, reminding me of many others that are similar and referring to a now infamously off track other thread  )


----------



## Arcady

timckelley said:


> She told me that due to her busy schedule, she needs to defer that decision about one month.


This is the type of answer I get from a boss, not a spouse.


----------



## HarperVision

Arcady said:


> This is the type of answer I get from a boss, not a spouse.


They're not the same thing?


----------



## timckelley

Fofer said:


> Prediction: your 3TB drive will be filled in short order.


 I don't think even she can fill that much space in a month. Maybe I'll hold off for now lending her use of my NAS, as her NAS isn't quite full yet. When it does fill up, her attempts to offload shows will fail, and maybe that will be enough of a catalyst to invoke a decision. (She can't offload to my NAS until I set up a pyTiVo "share" on my NAS... She doesn't know how to do that.)


----------



## aaronwt

timckelley said:


> Well I reminded her that her 9TB storage is running low, and we'll need a decision soon on whether she's going to do some significant deleting, or if we need a third NAS. She told me that due to her busy schedule, she needs to defer that decision about one month.
> 
> She may run out by then, but there is a way to last that long, because most of my 3TB NAS is still free space [1], so I suppose I could lend part of that to her until she makes her decision.
> 
> I know this is kind of similar or analogous to lending her part of my TiVo, which I know TCF regards as a dangerous move, putting my digital liberty in jeopardy, but i figure worst case scenario is she eats up half my NAS, at which time I put my foot down and make the decision that we get the third NAS, then move her trespassing data over to it, and re-liberate my NAS.
> 
> [1] if only she could manage her space as well as I. In the time it took her to fill up 9 TB, I've only made a very small dent in my 3 TB.


It sounds like they need a new show..."Digital Hoarders"! 

Now I do save a bunch of content, but at least I have no problem deleting it. I will typically pick a certain amount of time, and delete any content older than that. For me that is a good way to clear things out. Then I can look at content that might be available to stream now. And if so then I can delete that too.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Tim, if you let her use your NAS or offer to buy her another one, you're just enabling her bad habit. I would tell her that 9 TB is hundreds of hours of shows, and even if she devoted six hours a day toward watching the backlog, it's still going to take her several months to watch all of it. Ask her if she foresees a possibility within the next few years that she'll be able to devote six hours a day for many months to watching these shows. If not, then the backlog is going to continue to build, and that's simply not healthy. 

However you decide to get there, I would suggest you tell her that 9 TB is all the space you're going to make available for her, and that she either needs to keep her collection within that limit, or she needs to figure out how to manage and pay for additional storage on her own.


----------



## timckelley

I did have another TiVo talk with her this morning. She said she's not sure about making major deletions soon, at which point I tried to illustrate just how huge a collection 9 TB represents, which I think she didn't like hearing.

I suggested that if there's not going to be be a lot of deleting, then maybe I should go ahead and buy another NAS. She said another option is for her to buy stuff on DVD, and I immediately nixed that in the bud, telling her that is more expensive than buying an NAS. I think the 9 TB (actually it's 12 TB, but 3 of it is used by the RAID configuration for data protection, so she really gets a usable space of 9 TB) might have cost me in the neighborhood of $800, but I feel confident that the equivalent in buying already burned DVDs would be in the $thousands.

Also, as this thread is now about 12 years old, and I sort of partially reviewed it last night, reading things I said that I totally forgot I said and things that she said over the years, I decided to ask her frankly about the status of her possible addiction to the TiVo. She said yes, she still considers herself addicted to TiVo. I asked how much the elimination of TiVo suggestions helped this (a measure we undertook many years ago). It definitely helps, but she still considers herself addicted.

So I then suggested that if I buy another NAS I could be enabling that addiction. She said yes, I would be. So I was left confused on what to do, and asked her for ideas. Her latest suggestion is to not buy another NAS and let her existing one run out of space, and maybe that will cause her to stop archiving so much or alternatively, find a bunch of stuff to actually delete. She did mention she could purge her entire collection of "Smallville", which is 10 seasons of 25 eps per season, so a total of 250 hours.

I could be off but maybe that's 250 GB (she records stuff in low quality), so I told her that as big as that sounds to her, that only represents 3% of her 9TB of storage. (Well maybe I'm not being accurate in my 1 GB per hour estimate... I'm not sure; this was off the top of my head).

Also, if I do give her part of my 3 TB, I thought of a way to protect a piece of that in a way that she cannot encroach on it. I remember that in my Synology software I could set up multiple volumes on the Server. Right now, our two NAS's are called TWILIGHT and BUFFY, as we're going with a vampire them for naming our servers. Her 9 TB resides on BUFFY, and my 3 TB is on TWILIGHT. I could partition TWILIGHT into two volumes, assigning a different drive letter to each, and include one of those letters as a new pyTiVo share, and reserve the other one for my personal use. So if she were to fill up her volume, she'd have no way to encroach on my volume. Both would have their own reserved space on TWILIGHT.

So this would protect me, but I probably won't even open up TWILIGHT to her unless she brings this up again and strongly asks for it. (She's definitely aware of my free space on TWILIGHT.) Meanwhile, if/when she finally runs out of space, if I do what she says - namely, stop enabling her and stop buying NAS's (which I can be on board with, since NAS's cost $), I will be interested to see what happens.

In the old days she'd instruct me to either buy another TiVo, or upgrade one, or buy an NAS. This morning she's backed off from that. It will be nice if she sticks to this new resolution. But I feel like when the moment of truth comes, I can't predict what's going to happen. I really don't think she will say to buy another TiVo, and I think we're past the days of her stealing my TiVo. I really think either she will finally stop her 12 year long campaign of expansion, or she will break down and plead for me to buy another NAS.

That or she will secretly without my knowledge (knowing I wouldn't like it) start buying DVDs like she used to do. This would really irritate me if that happened. The lesser of two evils to me is to buy another NAS... not buy expensive DVDs. Plus, we really don't have that much room to store more of them... one room already has 3 walls full of them. I think when this moment of truth comes, if she starts showing signs of stress, I may reiterate the unacceptableness of option 3. (Kind of like when a parent doesn't want their child to have sex, but if they do, please use birth control.  )


----------



## Arcady

How about a regular old 3TB external drive? Copy the older stuff to that, put it on a shelf, and if she really wants to see it, then plug it into the network somewhere.

Or delete the old files, put an empty hard drive case on a shelf, and tell her the stuff is stored there. In 5 years when it comes up, "oh no, the drive failed!"


----------



## DancnDude

I agree that it would be worth looking into seeing if a streaming option might work. Especially now that TiVo has OnePass, you could link up the series in the exact same way she uses them now except when they are played, they'd be streaming. 

And they aren't taking up space on your TiVo. And they'll be higher quality (not that she cares much about that).


----------



## timckelley

I've not heard of OnePass. By chance, do you know if the TiVo Premier supports it?


----------



## WO312

timckelley said:


> I've not heard of OnePass. By chance, do you know if the TiVo Premier supports it?


The newest release does if you use the HD menus. Mine was updated last week.


----------



## tatergator1

timckelley said:


> I've not heard of OnePass. By chance, do you know if the TiVo Premier supports it?


If not already received, it should be rolling out to your box soon.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Fofer said:


> It won't come up in 5 years. She's hoarding, not actually watching


That's what I was going to say as well. This isn't about watching the shows. It's unlikely she'll ever do that. This is about collecting and just the knowledge that she has something.

I remember when I was in college and I really fell in love with Seinfeld. I started recording every new episode and started recording the older episodes via syndication. The internet was fairly new at the time, and I remember feeling like I found some amazing buried treasure when I found an online listing of all the episodes, in order, with titles. It made cataloging my collection much easier. Anyway, I remember I held onto those VHS tapes for years. I never had any desire to actually watch them, but just knowing that I had them was somehow comforting. It was a few years after all the seasons became available on DVD that my wife once again suggested we throw those out, and this time I relented. I've never bought the series on DVD and I rarely watch the syndicated reruns.

I'm not sure what it was that made me want to collect the episodes. Maybe it was growing up in an era where if something aired on TV and you missed it, you might never get a chance to see it again. But that era is over. Content owners are making things available and virtually everything that's new today will be available online in some form or another. I just can't see wanting to hold on to ten seasons of Smallville or anything like that. It's just too easy to find elsewhere when (IF) there is ever a desire to actually watch the show.


----------



## Mikeguy

The public library can be a very good source for DVDs of earlier television series. I think of it as my extended DVD collection.


----------



## Mikeguy

Arcady said:


> How about a regular old 3TB external drive? Copy the older stuff to that, put it on a shelf, and if she really wants to see it, then plug it into the network somewhere.


Excellent idea. And Newegg just had a sale on a Samsung 4TB external hard drive on eBay, for $100.


----------



## DancnDude

timckelley said:


> I've not heard of OnePass. By chance, do you know if the TiVo Premier supports it?


Yes, it is rolling out now and should be out to everybody soon. There is a link floating around to get your box updated faster if you need to.

But essentially OnePass allows you to make a Season Pass for streaming shows. When a show is added to the Netflix/Amazon Prime/Hulu subscription, it shows up directly in the My Shows list just like recordings. You can have it mingle recorded shows with streaming shows as well.

If you create OnePasses for shows that are available online, you could delete her storage of those shows, yet the show would still show up in her My Shows list available to watch but not taking up space on your TiVo. It's unlikely she'll watch them anyways  It also allows sorting of shows in episode order which is also nice for organization purposes.


----------



## ej42137

Fofer said:


> What DevdogAZ said. It's time to put your foot down, Tim.


If you do decide to follow that advice, I have the name of a good divorce lawyer; PM me when you need it.

My advice would be to buy 6TB hard drives and use them as archive media as suggested above; it will be cheaper and far less painful in the long run.


----------



## HarperVision

ej42137 said:


> If you do decide to follow that advice, I have the name of a good divorce lawyer; PM me when you need it. My advice would be to buy 6TB hard drives and use them as archive media as suggested above; it will be cheaper and far less painful in the long run.


And I have a pouch you can store your balls in if you concede and buy more hard drives to feed her addictions.


----------



## evanborkow

harpervision said:


> and i have a pouch you can store your balls in if you concede and buy more hard drives to feed her addictions.


ouch!


----------



## Arcady

Fofer said:


> Hard drives with exported recordings on a shelf? Yeah, she'll REALLY be sure to go back and watch those...
> 
> Where? On a computer?


Because you can't plug a hard drive in and access it from PyTivo.

Oh wait, you can.

Why would you keep terabytes of live storage actually running when you are not going to access hardly any of it for years? If you really need to keep it, keep it offline and ready to go.

I keep my archived shows offline. They are on these things called DVD.


----------



## Arcady

That's why I also suggested empty hard drive cases. If she thinks the recordings are there, but they really aren't, everyone wins.


----------



## timckelley

It's not true that she never watches shows that are on pyTiVo. She's done that, though I don't know how often - probably not often. But I've occasionally gotten questions from her when she has trouble seeing some of her pyTiVo folders on our TV, so she does use that feature.



DancnDude said:


> But essentially OnePass allows you to make a Season Pass for streaming shows. When a show is added to the Netflix/Amazon Prime/Hulu subscription, it shows up directly in the My Shows list just like recordings. You can have it mingle recorded shows with streaming shows as well.
> 
> If you create OnePasses for shows that are available online, you could delete her storage of those shows, yet the show would still show up in her My Shows list available to watch but not taking up space on your TiVo. It's unlikely she'll watch them anyways  It also allows sorting of shows in episode order which is also nice for organization purposes.


We've been meaning to try out Hulu Plus, but haven't done it. I have no idea how much of her shows might be there, but if there's a fair amount, your suggestion sounds useful. Plus she's often complained about having trouble sorting her episodes in episode order, so I bet she'd love this feature.

Though I've told her that as long as all her episodes are in pyTiVo, there are ways to display it in episode order. I suppose one way is to rename the files to have the ep # as part of the file name, but this OnePass sounds more convenient.

Also, I agree with the analogy about DVDs being offline just like external hard drives that are powered down are offline, and she really doesn't mind if her stuff is offline, as long as she has a way to get them online as needed, so if external hard drives are cheaper than NAS's, that's probably a good alternative. Somebody mentioned a 6 TB drive. They have them that big now? Wow.

If I were to get an external HD, one thing it wouldn't have that an NAS has is the data protection offered by RAID technology. But actually if I were to have an offsite backup of the external hard drives, that's actually a better data protection than even RAID offers. I currently don't have any offsite backup plan in place (which some may say is living dangerously, as a house fire that destroyed all our media could be catastrophic).

Maybe I could do a combination of external HDs and implementing some kind of offsite backup plan.


----------



## DevdogAZ

I think a house fire that destroyed all her media would probably be the best thing that could happen.* Being forced to give up all that saved stuff might get her to realize how unimportant all of this stuff is in the grand scheme of things and might snap her out of her addiction.

*Obviously I'm being facetious. I wouldn't wish that on you. But losing all of her recordings wouldn't be a bad thing.


----------



## mattack

HarperVision said:


> Haha, and you guys think I am the crazy one for just being a Christian! I can't believe people go through this much trouble and expense for something as essentially meaningless as TV!


One of the things you talk about exists.


----------



## Bigg

Most NAS'es have USB ports, and can share external drives over the network. Not sure how this would or would not work with PyTiVo though. My giant 631GB hoard from XL4 (ok, I have a 61GB one from the 7-year life of the S2) is sitting on a PC with TiVo Desktop, although that wouldn't scale into the multi-TB range.

Why would you care if they are RAID'ed? It doesn't sound like these shows are actually important enough to bother backing up!


----------



## HarperVision

mattack said:


> One of the things you talk about exists.


Seriously? God I feel sorry for this world.


----------



## HarperVision

Fofer said:


> Please, please don't ruin this long-standing cornerstone of a thread with religion talk. Please.


Don't worry. That won't happen here again. It'll just be one offs firing warning shots across the bow!


----------



## ej42137

HarperVision said:


> And I have a pouch you can store your balls in if you concede and buy more hard drives to feed her addictions.


Nice marriage you must have.


----------



## HarperVision

ej42137 said:


> Nice marriage you must have.


Very nice, thank you!

You do realize there's a laughing face after that clearly shows I'm joking around, right?


----------



## aaronwt

You don't see those when using Forum Runner.

I can see that something is there but it shows up as a colon and the letter p.


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## aaronwt

I guess it's an Android thing. Unless there is a setting somewhere I need to enable.


----------



## HarperVision

Fofer said:


> Displays fine in ForumRunner on iOS, FWIW.


Yeah, that's what I use to make 99% of my posts here and I see them fine.


----------



## DevdogAZ

aaronwt said:


> You don't see those when using Forum Runner.
> 
> I can see that something is there but it shows up as a colon and the letter p.


So the Android version of ForumRunner just renders emoticons as text, the way they originated? That shouldn't be a problem. Everyone knows what colon-p means, don't they?


----------



## unitron

DevdogAZ said:


> So the Android version of ForumRunner just renders emoticons as text, the way they originated? That shouldn't be a problem. Everyone knows what colon-p means, don't they?


There's an enlarged prostate, shrinking bladder joke in there somewhere.


----------



## timckelley

[... one year passes ...] Okay, so here's an update to our situation. Three things have happened, that all have an impact on our TiVo setup.

1. My employer sold off a big chunk of itself to another company (I'm an IT programmer for a life/annuity insurance company). There were layoffs, but the entire IT department stayed intact - the new company hired us.  (I'm actually in kind of a good position, because they've made a strategic decision to convert their software systems that hold their policies to the system my company used, and so they really need programmers experienced with that system - including the ability to make software changes / adding new features - so if anything, this may have increased my job security.)

But a side effect of this, is that they don't want to maintain any offices in Texas, but they will allow me to work out of my house, so I now work from my house. What this means is that the room with all my equipment (router, modem, ethernet switches, ooma phone system, two NASes, two printers, two computers, plus other stuff has become even more crowded. Their strict security forbids me from doing company work on a personal computer, so that means 3 computers, instead of two, and two monitors instead of one. (It would have been 3 monitors, but I figured out a way for my personal computer and work computer to share the same dual monitors. Same for my mouse, speakers, and keyboard.)

Anyway, the reason for the two personal computers in this room (which I may have explained earlier in this thread) is because one of them is really old (has Windows XP on it), and I've been using that to run pyTiVo.

Also, they gave me a special company router that's specially configured to allow me to use RDP straight to their network in Wisconsin. So now I have two routers. (One personal, and one company owned), and they both plug into the same cable modem.

I don't really have room here for 3 computers (2 personal + 1 company), which leads me to my next bullet point...

2. I was getting tired of my main workhorse computer (the one I mostly use for my personal computer) being so outdated and slow, and it was on Windows Vista, which I don't like very much, so I bought a Windows 7 computer that's so much zippier. So my idea was to decommission both the Vista computer and the XP computer, because this one is so much faster, it could handle pyTiVo as well as all my other stuff. So I'm back down to two computers in this room: my work computer and my one personal computer.

But I never did get around to installing pyTiVo (which I still can do), but my wife hasn't really complained. She's basically stopped archiving her shows. (Hard to believe that at long last has happened!) So maybe, if you take away her ability, it just stops? Is that how this works?

Having said that, her TiVo Premier, which is upgraded and has loads of disk space, is nevertheless close to 100% full, and she winds up deleting stuff manually to make room for her new recordings. But apparently she doesn't look all that squeamish when she deletes stuff. She seems to accept that a lot more than she used to. I guess she's gotten used to deleting stuff. But she still likes keep her TiVo mostly full.

3. Compared to my early days, I'm having so much more problems with TiVo malfunctions. In some ways, I wonder if the electricity at this house we bought several years ago has lower quality electricity than before. It seems like we get way more one second outtages then we used to. But all our TiVos are on UPS's, so you'd think that would protect them. Anyway, here's our current TiVo situation:

TiVo Premier dual tuner. Works fine (except we occasionally lose the signal on channels 2-4, for reasons I still don't understand. Might have to do with our MOCA adapter, but not sure).

TiVo HD dual tuner. Broken. I've tried several things with the help of the Help section here, but nothing has solved it. I'm worried it could be the motherboard.

3 S2 TiVos, all single tuner. All have stopped working.

(And all 5 TiVos have lifetime service.  )
I maybe could fix some of the S2's, but the one or two I've tried to fix (including replacing the HD) have not worked. (See, with all these broken TiVos, it makes me wonder if there's something wrong with our house in general.)

Anyway, I made a strategic decision to buy a TiVo Roamio. (I can't remember offhand if it's 4 or 6 tuners.) My reasoning is that 3 S2's with one tuner each is 3 times as much hardware to maintain/repair, then one Roamio, and the Roamio gives you more tuners, to boot.

Now, even the Roamio has given me problems. At first, it would freeze up, and hitting the TiVo button did nothing, until I hit it a few times, and then it would suddenly reboot. At first, this happened once every couple weeks, then weekly, then more and more often, until it was happening daily. It had a 90 day warranty, so I made a claim, and I just got the replacement, which I'm setting up right now. So I hope this works better.

We procrastinated a little on returning it, because we had all 6 seasons of the Walking Dead recorded on it (thanks to a marathon), and we binge watched it, and now we're 100% caught up. (Ironically, even when the TiVo had frozen menus / frozen live TV, it would continue to record it's To Do List, and we could watch Now playing from the Roamio through her TiVo Premier, by streaming it through our network, so that's how we got by, and once we finished watching the Walking Dead, I promptly returned the TiVo.)

I've told her that with all the tuners, she could have the Roamio, and I could take the Premier, but she has many dozens of SPs and she does not look forward to transferring them. Meanwhile, I'm not going to be that possessive of either TiVo, and if she wants to transfer a few SPs at a time and gradually change over, that's fine. My TiVo HD has been broken for so long, that I've pretty much stopped watching TV except for the shows we both watch together (on her Premier).

There are in fact, a number of shows we both follow, and we both would probably be upset if we missed an episode, but she's good at making sure that those shows don't miss an episode.


----------



## bareyb

> but she has many dozens of SPs and she does not look forward to transferring them, and if she wants to transfer a few SPs at a time and gradually change over, that's fine.


I only read the last couple of lines (tldr) but I wanted to remind you that you can transfer all your Season Passes online at TiVo.com. Makes it a lot less painful.


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## timckelley

bareyb said:


> I only read the last couple of lines (tldr) but I wanted to remind you that you can transfer all your Season Passes online at TiVo.com. Makes it a lot less painful.


Wow, that's a great feature I didn't know about. I'm certainly going to tell my wife about that.


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## murgatroyd

bareyb said:


> I only read the last couple of lines (tldr) but I wanted to remind you that you can transfer all your Season Passes online at TiVo.com. Makes it a lot less painful.


This, except I was going to recommend using kmttg.


----------



## timckelley

murgatroyd said:


> This, except I was going to recommend using kmttg.


I've used kmttg to transfer actual shows from a TiVo to an NAS; I didn't know it could also move season passes from one TiVo to another.

At any rate, I currently don't have kmttg installed, so I'll likely pursue bareyb's suggestion.


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## bareyb

timckelley said:


> Wow, that's a great feature I didn't know about. I'm certainly going to tell my wife about that.


Well now I wish there was a You're Welcome button! Glad to help. The OnePass Manager is @ http://online.tivo.com/start/manage


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## timckelley

Wait, a correction to what I said: one of my S2's is actually working [1] and my wife has been using it.

The Roamio is up and running now, so we have a total of 3 working TiVos, with a combined 7 tuners available. I'd hope that will solve all conflict resolution problems.

[1] I attached a digital tuner to the S2, and IR cables so that the TiVo can control it. I also have an attic antenna, and I ran a coax from there to my house's cable box, where I can control which rooms get the antenna, and which rooms get the a time Warner cable signal. The S2 gets the antenna, so she's using that TiVo for OTA broadcasts.


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## timckelley

She probably wouldn't agree to them. #1 for reasons explained many years ago, much earlier in this thread. (Basically VCRs are a lot more menial to record and to play back, tapes take up physical space, and they are prone to accidental partial loss of recordings, like if the tape hits the end in the middle of a show.)

#2 might sound reasonable to her in theory, but once she hits the 50%, if there's a show she really wants recorded, she'd have trouble digesting the thought of losing the show, when there's a lots of free space still on the TiVo. She'd probably record it by borrowing against my space, intending to free it up later.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I've discovered that upgrading or adding TiVos tends to buy a couple of years of peace each time I do it.

Now this newest development might be a new and different test of our management skills, because the plan is to move all her SPs off the Premier onto the Roamio. This means there will be a transition period when all her new recordings will go to the Roamio, but her old stuff will remain on the Premiere, slowly getting deleted as stuff is watched.

One alternative is to HMO the stuff over, but there's a fair amount that you can't do that on, because of Time Warner's copy protection flags they stick on a lot of shows.

Also, there are certain SPs that she doesn't delete the eps from, even after watching them. I'm not quite sure why that is, and if space winds up being a problem, I'll need to talk to her about that. Because if the Premiere is to become my TiVo, I wouldn't want a large fraction of it taken up by shows she's already watched, but doesn't want to delete.

In the past, she's done this because she had plans to back them up to our NAS. But she seems to kind of lost interest in doing that. (Which is nice, because NAS's aren't that cheap.) However, if the reason she's not deleting is because she just wants to hang on them for archival reasons, that's what the NAS's are for, so if it comes to that, I can reinstall pyTiVo (I explained just a few posts ago, why we no longer have pyTiVo installed.) I'm 99% sure that she'll agree to delete those shows if she knows they're backed up.


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## timckelley

Yes


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## mattack

Heh, I upgraded my Roamio by plugging in a 3 TB drive at some point.. then upgraded my Premiere 4 to a 6 TB drive, but it currently only thinks it's 4 TB.. and moved most active/prime time OPs to the P4 (due to space).. It's already about 1/3 full, but I knew that was going to happen. The Roamio is still almost full, but I have been eating into its shows a bit.. I realized long ago that in previous almost-disk-full situations, I ended up downloading FULL EPISODES of a bunch of late night talk shows (only SD quality, but still about a gig per episode).. So I sometimes pytivo them back, skim through, and either save the musical guest or nuke them...

So I'm not quite as bad as the original poster, and am slowlyslowly eating into the backlog.. (Plus, quickmode lets me skim through things like a single guest of a talk show more conveniently than on a computer or iPad in VLC.)


----------



## trip1eX

Do you guys have Netflix? Much easier to delete stuff on your Tivo when you know old seasons of a ton of shows are on Netflix. (For example, every season of The Walking Dead except the current one is on Netflix.) Obviously their availability isn't guaranteed for life or anything. But she doesn't need to know that. And chances are some service will have xyz show on it.

You really wouldn't have to be a current Netflix subscriber etc either. The promise to subscribe to one of these services at the time you want to watch old episodes of a series would be enough to lessen the fear of deleting old stuff on the Tivo.


----------



## mattack

I have been doing that with a couple of shows, e.g. The Americans, that show up on Amazon Prime.. (I used to say Grimm too, but I basically gave up on that.)

I've said it before, but I'd gladly use a streaming service that was commercial free, had a _predictable/consistent_ amount of episodes for ALL shows it carried (and/or tell me expiration dates on individual episodes/seasons), instead of or likely in addition to Tivo.. commercial free Hulu seems the closest, but not quite.


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## iaflyer

Long time viewer, rare poster to this (very) interesting thread. Would you entertain us with a picture of the videotape archives? (Does she still have them, I have read the whole thread over the years but can't remember now).


----------



## timckelley

iaflyer said:


> Long time viewer, rare poster to this (very) interesting thread. Would you entertain us with a picture of the videotape archives? (Does she still have them, I have read the whole thread over the years but can't remember now).


When we moved to a new (smaller) house a few years ago my wife got rid a good chunk of her VHS tapes (and it seemed to cause her some serious pain when she did it). Still her VHS and DVD collection remains large enough that if I were to take a photo of it I will probably need a panoramic shot. Most of the walls in one of our rooms is taken up with bookshelves containing them.


----------



## Aero 1

We've endured this thread for many, many years. we are owed this picture.


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## timckelley

My wife has forbidden me from taking pictures, so now I need to decide whether to secretly take them. She probably wouldn't know if I did.


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## evanborkow

Don't do it!


----------



## JBDragon

What I want is something like Netflix or PLEX where a person can log into Tivo and watch the new stuff he wants. Let me put it this way, My Dad moved into my house. He is recording all kinds of CRAP I just don't want to see, yet I have to weed through it to find the shows I want to see, but he's watching many of those also and so they are shown as watched.

Why can't each person have their own Login, With a list of shows THEY wanted to record, if some of those are also on the other persons list, say you can delete it, but it's not really deleted until anyone else that wanted to watch it also deletes it then it's wiped form the system forever. Any show I haven't watched, is there and showing not watched. The shows I don't care about don't show up in my direct listing unless I add it to my show list. Kind of like the Tivo Suggestions recordings. It's there, but not in your face there. I have PLEX setup for different people and Netflix, but come on TIVO, why not?

Right now I have to weed through a ton of crap. I have no idea what's safe to delete or not without going to up my Dad and asking for each and every show. Can I delete that? How about this? There's so much recorded, it's a huge pain. So it's hard to make room for new stuff. i want to watch something and just be able to delete it and have it GONE forever from my site. Clear it all up to just stuff I need to watch still. This is my biggest gripe with Tivo.


----------



## bareyb

JBDragon said:


> What I want is something like Netflix or PLEX where a person can log into Tivo and watch the new stuff he wants. Let me put it this way, My Dad moved into my house. He is recording all kinds of CRAP I just don't want to see, yet I have to weed through it to find the shows I want to see, but he's watching many of those also and so they are shown as watched.
> 
> Why can't each person have their own Login, With a list of shows THEY wanted to record, if some of those are also on the other persons list, say you can delete it, but it's not really deleted until anyone else that wanted to watch it also deletes it then it's wiped form the system forever. Any show I haven't watched, is there and showing not watched. The shows I don't care about don't show up in my direct listing unless I add it to my show list. Kind of like the Tivo Suggestions recordings. It's there, but not in your face there. I have PLEX setup for different people and Netflix, but come on TIVO, why not?
> 
> Right now I have to weed through a ton of crap. I have no idea what's safe to delete or not without going to up my Dad and asking for each and every show. Can I delete that? How about this? There's so much recorded, it's a huge pain. So it's hard to make room for new stuff. i want to watch something and just be able to delete it and have it GONE forever from my site. Clear it all up to just stuff I need to watch still. This is my biggest gripe with Tivo.


People have been asking for folders for as long as I can remember.


----------



## DancnDude

JBDragon said:


> What I want is something like Netflix or PLEX where a person can log into Tivo and watch the new stuff he wants. Let me put it this way, My Dad moved into my house. He is recording all kinds of CRAP I just don't want to see, yet I have to weed through it to find the shows I want to see, but he's watching many of those also and so they are shown as watched.
> 
> Why can't each person have their own Login, With a list of shows THEY wanted to record, if some of those are also on the other persons list, say you can delete it, but it's not really deleted until anyone else that wanted to watch it also deletes it then it's wiped form the system forever. Any show I haven't watched, is there and showing not watched. The shows I don't care about don't show up in my direct listing unless I add it to my show list. Kind of like the Tivo Suggestions recordings. It's there, but not in your face there. I have PLEX setup for different people and Netflix, but come on TIVO, why not?
> 
> Right now I have to weed through a ton of crap. I have no idea what's safe to delete or not without going to up my Dad and asking for each and every show. Can I delete that? How about this? There's so much recorded, it's a huge pain. So it's hard to make room for new stuff. i want to watch something and just be able to delete it and have it GONE forever from my site. Clear it all up to just stuff I need to watch still. This is my biggest gripe with Tivo.


TiVo has been rumored to be working on user profiles for a long time. There's even a leaked image that was posted in 2010:


Who knows why it's taken them so long. Hopefully they're still working on it because I think it'd be great feature as well. Along with showing all shows on all TiVos in a single list.


----------



## Joe01880

timckelley said:


> I've got an 80 hour series two TiVo. We've several season passes, with the option: "Keep until I delete". I've watched everything I want, and am ready to delete, but my wife is severely behind on watching the programs. The TiVo is almost full now, and often when I try to schedule a new program it says it can't schedule because it's out of memory.
> 
> (Actually, it's projecting that by the time the show airs, it'll be out of memory because of the "To Do" list, but as the season's really over now, the only stuff in my To Do list are 3 season passes my wife has set up for our 3 year old son -- educational cartoons. These are also "keep until I delete", but my wife has agreed to let me archive these to VHS as soon as they record. Therefore, by the time my desired shows will air, the TiVo really won't be out of memory, but it doesn't know that. A solution is for me to wait until just before the air date, and then schedule a recording.)
> 
> My wife is unwilling to delete anything, because she wants to watch it all. (There's quite a prodigious amount recorded right now.) She also doesn't know when she'll have time to watch stuff. She won't change "Keep until I delete" to an expiration date, because she can't guarantee when she'll watch the stuff. Our TiVo is effectively no longer an 80 hour TiVo, but a 6-7 hour TiVo, and it's still shrinking. Soon I'll be TiVoless. [sounds of shocked awe]. She's jeopardizing my TiVo experience. Solutions?


Get a newer TiVo, put a 3 terrabyte hard drive in it and live unhappily ever after.

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk.


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## bareyb

What was I thinking. Deleted.


----------



## timckelley

Update: The Roamio is already full.    That didn't take long.

You may think this is bad, but basically every TiVo in the house is under my wife's control. I haven't really complained because in this new age of streaming from Amazon Prime and youtube, I don't feel as possessive of a TiVo as I used to be, but there are shows I still watch on TiVo, and so far this hasn't been a problem. Also, not everything is KUID like it used to be in the old days, so if we lose shows, it will likely be her shows that are lost.

I also about a month or more ago reenabled pyTiVo and my wife is archiving again. But much of what's on the Roamio is copy protected by Time Warner, and my wife has been asking that I upgrade it. I've been taking a long time getting around to it, but less than a month ago I ordered a 4TB drive to replace the 500GB drive that's in there.

The TiVo is full, and starting tonight it wants to basically start recording the new season, but last night I finally started the process of upgrading.

I ran into a snag because you need a T8 screwdriver to get it open, and the smallest I have is a T10. So I got up an hour early this morning and went to Walmart and got one. (Home depot and Lowes websites were fruitless, so I went to Walmart.)

Next, I had trouble opening my Dell desktop, but a youtube video solved that.

Next, I had trouble figuring out where the extra SATA ports are, and another youtube video solved that. (They're not all adjacent like I'd've thought.)

Next, the extra ports weren't working. I ruled out the drive and data cable through my troubleshooting and narrowed it to the port itself, and a nice person on the Upgrade forum here suggested I go into BIOS, and voila: the port was disabled like he theorized. Fixed now, and data movement is in progress as we speak, projected to finish in another 20 minutes.

I may indeed succeed in getting this all done in time for this evening's lineup, but I cut it pretty close.

BTW, I hear that with Roamios, you don't need MFS tools... you can just plug in the drive and it self formats and loads itself with the TiVo software, but you wouldn't have any shows on it, and my wife would have lost a heapload. (Not me, as I've already watched my entire backlog.)

ETA: I misread the progress meter. It could be 7:15 - 7:30 before it's done. She'll likely miss one show tonight.  Oh well.

ETA2: No, she won't miss it. She's already set the TiVo Premier to record that show. So I still may be the hero saving the day in this episode of "As the TiVo Fills".


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## bkc56

Interesting that this thread (and story) is still alive. I posted to it back in 2003 that we'd gone to a his and hers Tivo to solve the problem. It's worked well for the last decade plus. We're now among the Series 1 refugees and have converted to two Bolts (with transferred lifetime) so the process will continue. The one old Tivo will be cleared within the week and can have its final power-down. Not sure how long it will take to get the other one cleared as it's pretty full (but that's not my problem). There's already a pretty large disparity in how fast the two new Bolts are filling up.


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## TonyD79

You could blame the guide update and clear the whole damned thing!


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## astrohip

bkc56 said:


> Interesting that this thread (and story) is still alive. I posted to it back in 2003 that we'd gone to a his and hers Tivo to solve the problem.


That's what I did a few years ago. It works well. The kitchen TV has a Mini, and it's attached to her TiVo too, so it's like she's watching "her TiVo" when she watches that TV. She loves it. (Let's not complicate the situation by introducing the fact that a Mini can actually change hosts )

It also keeps her from using my tuners. And amazingly, even six tuners is pushing it at this time of year (new Fall shows, padding for some networks, etc).



TonyD79 said:


> You could blame the guide update and clear the whole damned thing!


I've blamed entire shows being wiped out on TiVo glitches before (New vs New/Repeats, and other sundry excuses).


----------



## timckelley

I feel I may have made a strategic mistake. For a fair while, I was not watching TiVo and contenting myself with streaming things to my iPad from internet. But I've become interested in several shows, and while I can stream them from the channel's app, I'm forced to watch commercials, but with TiVo, you don't have to watch commercials. What's better about TiVo is that the Roamio supports that great "D" button that single clicks you through the all the commercials back to the show again.

So I'm back to fairly often using the Roamio, but during my several month break from it, my wife has taken control of it, and I let her get away with it, because I didn't care at the time. As it is, it's mostly full, but still has space, so program loss is not imminent. Also, whenever I want to find my SPs I have to scroll through scads of screens to find them because she has so many SPs on it.

And after all these years (about 15 if I remember correctly) she STILL mostly uses KUID. Now I'm very thankful for the "mostly" because she might have roughly 5% (maybe a bit less) of her shows on KUSN, so if we ever run out of space, those will be the first ones to go. As long as I don't let my shows sit too long, hers will be more stale than mine, so I guess I don't have that much to worry about. She still actively archives with pyTiVo, but the Roamio is still mostly full, nevertheless.

So, we have 3 TiVos currently being actively used: Roamio, Premiere, and an S2 (but the S2 is occasionally frustrating my wife because the digital-to-analog tuner I have that is what allows the S2 to work sometimes stops tuning to channels causing her to miss shows. It didn't used to do that.) But my point is that pretty much all 3 TiVos are hers, so that means she has 3 TiVos and I'm sharing one of them (the Roamio) with her. I have no TiVo that I can really call my own TiVo.

I could ask her to relinquish one of them, but that may not be easy once she has possession of them and has filled them with SPs like she has. No, if I ever want my own TiVo, I'd probably have to buy a 4th one, and not make the mistake I made with the Roamio - that is, not stop using it, allowing her to encroach on it.

BTW I asked her, that considering our Roamio has 4 tuners (not to mention the Premiere has 2), and the S2 has just one tuner, why even use the S2? Is it a space problem? She said no, it's a conflict problem. She needs the extra tuner that the S2 offers.


----------



## sushikitten

This still just blows my mind.


----------



## glugglug

Similar situation here, but I use Windows Media Center. Not quite as bad because I can group the shows by series to find the ones i watch easier, and because I have a large enough drive pool to not delete things for about 2 years Well sort of. Most of the series are set to keep only 7 episodes so they'll auto-delete a lot after 2 months. (and the kids stuff doesn't get deleted, *ever*. The collection has been building up since 2008.)

Recently upgraded to 32TB. Not looking forward to end of Win7 support in 2020. Will probably keep running it, but with the WMC machine no longer being the primary household PC so that the lack of security updates becomes less of an issue. (already using SchedulesDirect guide data because Rovi that they changed to 2 years ago sucks)


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## timckelley

32TB? That's impressively big.

I think our Roamio has 4TB, the Premier 3TB if I remember correctly, and I have two NAS's, one of them has 12 TB in a RAID array, so 9 TB usable, and the other with 6 TB across two mirrored drives, so that's 3 TB usable. I also have 2 external hard drives that are mostly full of shows, but I can't remember offhand how many TBs they have.

But if I add it all together, I don't have 32TB like you do.


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## Mikeguy

And so, I picked up a refurb. Roamio OTA (with 500GB drive) in TiVo's Nov./Dec. White Sale, for use in my main watching space, where I also have a lifetimed Series 2 which certainly will start getting more creaky over time (still working great, though--a real champ, and with its original drive, no less!). Was thinking of getting a bigger hard drive for it right away but then thought, as I've posted here, how could I even get close to filling the current drive; and life and some procrastination set in.

Well, 4 Star Trek series in re-runs later (running 6 days a week) and I'm suddenly at 91% full. 

What I've come to realize, though, is that I may need to change my recording habits. I mean, realistically, when could most of us actually watch all that programming? It's like when I got my first VCR and recorded Julia Child cooking shows M-F while I was at work, then feeling obligated to watch them all Sat. morning or afternoon. It just got crazy.

Apart from those favorite shows which we want to time-shift, perhaps the best approach is to _not_ be recording so much, unless there is real purpose there (apart from, "Well, I have the space . . ."). Or, at the very least, KUSN the bulk of the shows. I mean, at this point, if I don't start deleting, I'm going to have to hire someone to watch all those shows for me.


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## DevdogAZ

Tim, are you saying your wife sometimes has 7 things recording at once?!? Have you thought about getting her counseling for her hoarder tendencies?


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## timckelley

It's possible that she only has 3 things at once; if you use overlap protection, 2 shows can wipe out the Roamio's 4 tuners, and she uses the S2 for the third show. I think she only wants certain genres of shows on the premiere, so the S2 assists her in that.


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## Joe01880

Sounds like someone besides the Mrs. needs to grow a pair and regain control of their house hold... or at the very least engage in some serious TiVo family counseling, maybe contacting Dr. Phil...

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Mikeguy

And again I ask, when does she think she is going to be watching all that content?

Absent her being able to address her issue (I think the term might be, electronic hoarding, perhaps?), I would recommend that you either secure one of the TiVo's for your personal control or, if that would cause an issue, purchase a separate TiVo for you to control alone. Perhaps the consideration of that scenario alone might be enough to have the situation addressed.


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## Mikeguy

DevdogAZ said:


> Tim, are you saying your wife sometimes has 7 things recording at once?!?


A totally reasonable comment. And then I realized that I was recording 5 shows at the same time, just the other night. (PBS, ABC, CBS, Fox, and a Star Trek Voyager rerun.) It's rare, but it can happen.


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## tenthplanet

Stream Star Trek when you want episodes it's on multiple sites. Only record what you can't get other ways.


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## jcthorne

Resurrecting an old tread about hording large quantities of video. I am guilty of this but we all have a hobby.

I just wanted to brag a little about an amazing deal I just got on a new Synology NAS. I have had a ds1511+ for better than 5 yrs. Expanded it with both available expansion chassis and now running up against its upper limits with 15 maximum drive bays.

I was offered a factory refurbished DS3611xs for $500 and jumped on it. Yes, its a few years old in design but the unit is actually brand new and unused and carries full warranty. Its new old stock that was disassembled and tested, memory and cooling system upgraded to current spec and repackaged. These sold new for just north of $3k and still bring $2k on ebay used. They fully support the current version Sonology software including the newer btrfs self healing file system. It has 12 bays and is expandable to 36. The current version software is only limited by available hard drive size to 285TB with dual redundancy. (3 ea 12 drive arrays). I would never have thought about spending the retail price for a server of this level, but at $500 and I can sell the current one and expansion chassis for more than that, it was an easy decision to feed the habit. I am pretty stoked about the new toy.


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## timckelley

Wow, over a quarter of a petabyte. It's hard to comprehend that much memory. Over a quarter of a quadrillion bytes. Put another way, 350 units each having the size of your server, would in combination contain the same amount of memory as is in Data's positronic brain. (Star Trek Next Generation)


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## tenthplanet

For a moment I thought this thread had turned into a zombie, (It just won't die) . Nice deal on the storage.


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## RoamioJeff

timckelley said:


> Wow, over a quarter of a petabyte. It's hard to comprehend that much memory. Over a quarter of a quadrillion bytes. Put another way, 350 units each having the size of your server, would in combination contain the same amount of memory as is in Data's positronic brain. (Star Trek Next Generation)


I remember reading a recent Scientific American article where researchers pegged the equivalent capacity of the human brain to be 2.5 petabytes.


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## mattack

jcthorne said:


> It has 12 bays and is expandable to 36. The current version software is only limited by available hard drive size to 285TB with dual redundancy. (3 ea 12 drive arrays). I would never have thought about spending the retail price for a server of this level, but at $500 and I can sell the current one and expansion chassis for more than that, it was an easy decision to feed the habit. I am pretty stoked about the new toy.


So $500 means no drives, right? I think so..

So 285 TB means total limit, right? So ~7.91 TB per drive limit? (285/36) We're past that limit now... or if I'm wrong, which I probably am, what's the biggest single drive size it supports? (Jeez, what limits did we hit over the years.. 128 meg, 2 TB, and a few others.. I mean various hardware and/or software limits that limited the max size that could be used for various things.)

I filled up one external drive I had (mostly of tivo recordings, some of music shows I'm keeping), so ended up just buying another. Most is probably stuff I won't watch, some is old talk shows I ended up copying off in full, should skim through them sometime. I had dreamed of having a big RAID array (so I lessen the chance of losing recordings), but even though I could afford it, can't really justify it. For $500 for one with 12 bays to start, I might though!


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## ej42137

S*y*nology is the company that makes NAS.


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## jcthorne

The NAS capacity is quoted using the largest currently offered NAS drives, 10TB Seagate Iron Wolf drives. Synology and Seagate have linked up to specifically support the better diagnostics on these drives but the NAS will work fine with WD Red drives as well. The calculation is based on dual redundancy so you only get the space of 10 drives per chassis with 2 drives redundancy to protect the array. IE if a drive fails, you simply replace it on the fly and the data is rebuilt. Trouble is, with large arrays (generally over 8 drives) the most likely time for a second drive failure is during the heavy load rebuild process. Thus the dual drive redundancy. Anyway 9.5 TB (actual capacity of the drive) x 10 x 3 chassis. 285TB. 

Yes the price was without drives.


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## aaronwt

That sounds like a great deal.

FOr me I've been using three unRAID setups for the last five or six years and prior to that I used a Windows Home Server.

It would certainly be nice to have everything in one setup. But my setups also consists of only 2TB and 3TB drives for 129TB of total storage. It would really be nice to have 6TB or 8TB drives and have everything in one enclosure. Instead of the three to five enclosures I have for each unRAID setup.


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## tenthplanet

One almost needs a server room at this rate, not that's a bad thing..


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## mattack

jcthorne said:


> offered NAS drives


Do you REALLY need special drives? Especially with RAID reducing the likelihood of data loss with disks going bad, seems strange to have to use ridiculously expensive drives.

(Yes, I understand the counterargument of not "cheaping out" on the drives.. But my theoretical idea is to use it for "just TV shows", and I'm already just using consumer external drives that could go bad at any minute.)


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## jcthorne

The NAS drives are not that much more expensive. Heck with the Seagate 10TB units the Iron Wolf NAS drive is cheaper than the Barracuda desktop drive. The real difference between the two is the firmware and the drive re-read attempts. A desktop drive when encountering a bad sector will stop reading and repeatedly attempt to read the sector. Will time out and the array will fail. A NAS drive tries a very limited number of times and moves on. Assumes (correctly) the array will fix the missing data, marks the sector bad and continues along. Yes, there really is a difference and is more compounded the more drives you have in the array.

The difference in price of the NAS drives is generally just the difference in build quantities. In the larger drives the NAS editions can be the same or lower price than the desktop drives as few buy 10TB drives for a desktop.


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## jcthorne

tenthplanet said:


> One almost needs a server room at this rate, not that's a bad thing..


Well I do have a media and network equipment closet with flow through ventilation and a glass front door. Does that count?


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## tenthplanet

jcthorne said:


> Well I do have a media and network equipment closet with flow through ventilation and a glass front door. Does that count?


 It's a start , actually that is very good.


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## timckelley

I recently installed a portable AC unit in the room that has my 2 NAS's (It also has 2 computers, a modem, 2 routers, laser printer, scanner, 2 monitors, ooma device, a mini fridge, and other stuff), so the room was getting warm.


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## jcthorne

Just in case any one is interested, I finished setting up my new Synology Diskstation DS3611xs and am very pleased with it. All data and services transferred over.

I now have a DS1511+ and 2 expansion chassis to sell. I have them listed on ebay but if anyone here wants to contact me directly I can cut a better deal on each piece or on all 3 components as a package. All are in as new condition and work perfectly. The DS1511 has a 3GB memory upgrade installed.


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## timckelley

So, recently my wife complained she couldn't transfer shows to our main NAS (4 x 3TB = 12 TB, but 9 usable due to RAID technology). It turns out she's filled it all up (which isn't the first time). When I logged onto it, there were error messages, including something about emailing of errors having failed (so that's why I wasn't notified). I assumed it was due to it filling up, so I was going to offload some to an external HD (which itself is getting filled up), but then she magically faced the fact that she has an excessive archive, and lots of it will never get watched, and she agreed to delete part of it. I asked "how about General Hospital?", and she told me to delete it, which is great because she's got an enormous amount of those episodes backed up, probably 1-2 TB (closer to 2 I bet). So yes, is she really ever going to catch up by watching all those eps? She's got so many other things, probably higher priority, to catch up on. So I deleted them. 

But then I still was getting synology error messages, and then I was suddenly notified that drive 3 has problems, and the system recommends that I replace that drive. So I powered it down and pulled out the bad drive, and I don't intend to power it on until I install a replacement drive.

Today, my wife asked if she can resume archiving, and I said no, that I need to buy and install a drive to replace the bad drive, and until then Buffy (the name of this NAS) is down. She seemed kind of annoyed, saying that I have 3 good drives, so why should the whole thing be down? I tried to explain the cleverness of RAID technology, that no matter which drive crashes, the other 3 back it up, and you lose nothing. And that all 4 need to be in working order for it to function correctly. I couldn't seem to get her to understand, so I gave up the conversation.

So probably this evening, I'll order another drive. I've never encountered this, but I assume that once I install it, and power the Synology on again, it'll detect it and ask if I want to rebuild the array from the other 3, and then I should be back in business again.

I suppose if things were urgent, I could reconfigure pyTiVo to point to our other NAS (called Twilight [1]), which has 2 x 3TB, using mirroring, so 3 TB usable. But so far I've been confining her videos to Buffy + the external HD, so I'd rather not involve Twilight.

[1] I guess the theme of our NAS names involves vampire shows - this was more her idea than mine, as my wife is fan of vampire shows.


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## DevdogAZ

Tim, you are an enabler of the highest order. I hope your wife appreciates you.


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## timckelley

The remarkable thing though was that she was willing to delete a sizable chunk of space and lose it. My hope is that if she continues this strategy, maybe I can at long last (after 14 years of this problem) have a wife who is not only now willing to delete, but delete enough that I can stop buying more space.

As I alluded to, I now have 2 NAS's and one sizeable external hard drive, and most of the space is used up, but maybe her deleting of general hospital could be the beginning of good things to come.


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## mattack

Well, I have a 4 or 6 TB and I think an 8 TB external drive, the 8 TB has about 6 TB free, but the smaller one is almost full, and the vast majority is stuff downloaded off Tivo.. (Though I know some, a small amount, is duplicated, like shows that repeat on PBS that I still download again sometimes..)

I'd love to get a NAS some time to lessen the drive-going-bad possibility.


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## sushikitten

Well I never imagined this day would come. 

Hooray!


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## Thom

Wow. You've done a magnificent job of delaying the inevitable...

*
June 28, 2003
Your wife's habits are not going to change. If she would/could, she already would have done so. Once you've upgraded your single TiVo, it just allows her to wait longer before watching her shows.

The only true solution to this is his and her TiVos. Note that once her TiVo fills up, she will want to begin using your TiVo. For peace in the family, allow her to do that, but insist that none of her shows be Keep Until I Delete. If she doesn't watch them/save them before they expire, well, she had her chance. And make sure all your shows are KUID, so that her shows don't bump your shows.

Upgrading your single TiVo is just delaying the inevitable.

- Thom
*
.


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## timckelley

Just like the national debt, if I delay it long enough (with continued upgrades), it'll eventually be my grandchildren's problem, and not mine... except she won't be alive, and the problem will be solved anyhow.

But if you notice from my last post, she's actually learned how to delete a sizable chunk of shows. Whether that will last, we'll see. If it does, then maybe I'm done upgrading.


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## dwatt

Let us all wish for a Christmas miracle.


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## timckelley

My wife did ask about the status of our NAS today, and just now as I type this, I've finished installing the new drive, and executing the repair command (which ran remarkably fast, considering how many TB I'm dealing with). It's now back in business again.

I actually mentioned to her "remember 14 years ago when we got our first TiVo, and I had posted a TCF thread entitled 'wife won't delete recordings' to solicit help with managing our TiVo?" (she kind of frowned at this point.... btw, she's never read this thread) "Well when you deleted all that space by purging General Hospital, I posted that progress noting your achievement on my problem". At this point, she called me a dick, which hopefully was half joking, though it's possible she doesn't 100% appreciate me talking about her here, and exposing her TiVo behavior to others like I have. Oops.

She's not really mad though, as she probably just chalks this up as one of a list of things I do that she doesn't agree with. In fact I just told her I was in the process of repairing the NAS, and she seems happy enough.

ETA:



timckelley said:


> because she's got an enormous amount of those episodes backed up, probably 1-2 TB (closer to 2 I bet).


I'm a little off; I just looked at BUFFY, and it says I have 1.34 TB free, so it's not closer to 2 TB. Still, a good sized chunk. Having said that, she's preparing to archive some more videos. If she fills it up again, hopefully she'll find something to delete. Also, I did tell her it's better to delete a lot, and not always fill it up, and then delete a bit, etc, as that can lead to file fragmentation. (She probably doesn't understand what that is though.)

The other weird thing is, deleting is not as simple as deleting files using Windows Explorer. You also have to empty the recycle bin, before it'll recognize the space, and even then, you can't use Windows to empty the recyle bin. I have to use the synology software to do it, which she doesn't know how to do, so I need to be helping her delete the space.


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## Thom

timckelley said:


> I actually mentioned to her "remember 14 years ago when we got our first TiVo, and I had posted a TCF thread entitled 'wife won't delete recordings' to solicit help with managing our TiVo?" (she kind of frowned at this point.... btw, she's never read this thread) "Well when you deleted all that space by purging General Hospital, I posted that progress noting your achievement on my problem". At this point, she called me a dick, which hopefully was half joking, though it's possible she doesn't 100% appreciate me talking about her here, and exposing her TiVo behavior to others like I have. Oops.


What happens in TCF stays in TCF......you're screwed. 

On the bright side, the divorce will solve your "Wife won't delete recordings" problem. Unless the divorce agreement specifies you have to keep maintaining her in the TiVo lifestyle to which she has become accustomed...


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## timckelley

I kind of hate to bump this thread, but I figured I'd report that the sizable chuck of space she deleted has been filled up again with her archiving, and our NAS is a again full (12 TB, 9 usable because of RAID). The TiVos are close to full and she's pressing me to make room, and contrary to last time, she's not prepared at this time to delete stuff from the NAS. Also of note, even though the way she made space last time was to delete her huge collection of General Hospital, she's still recording that series! Maybe she figures old outdated eps are of small value compared to more current ones.

Well in the past we've made space by offloading to a large external HD we have (which admittedly is not so safe, because it's not backed up anywhere.) I currently have 1.34 GB free on that drive, so we're in the process now of transferring a bunch of stuff from the NAS to that drive (maybe enough to fill it up). That's because I have pyTiVo directly connected to the NAS. I like it that way because I normally keep the external HD powered off except for when we need it. The NAS is always online, because I can't predict when my wife wants to archive.

Anyway, she thinks maybe I should be prepared if need be, to purchase more space.

I reminded her of the relatively greater safety of the NAS vs the external HD because of RAID technology (which has already saved her once when a drive went bad... I replaced the drive, and none of her shows were lost). I told her I can get more bytes per dollar if I just buy an external HD, but the risk is that if it goes bad, she loses her shows. I don't think we've decided yet how much risk she's willing to take, to save $.

Actually before we do this, I've been meaning to show her the smart features of our TV that we bought a couple of months ago. She did say that if she can easily get shows willy nilly on demand, maybe she'll reconsider doing all this archiving. So I really need to show her this before I buy any space. I know she watches a lot of stuff on major networks, and all those networks, I think, have free apps I can access on the smart TV to bring up shows. I just don't know if it's all shows that network has made, or a subset, so I don't yet know how satisfied she'll be by it.


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## krkaufman

timckelley said:


> I told her I can get more bytes per dollar if I just buy an external HD, but the risk is that if it goes bad, she loses her shows. I don't think we've decided yet how much risk she's willing to take, to save $.


You can always buy 2 externals and mirror 'em.


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## Thom

I'd just buy four 6 TB drives, install them in the NAS, and be done with it for a while, hopefully a long while.

Here's some $140 drives from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00U..._FMwebp_QL65&keywords=6tb+internal+hard+drive


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## timckelley

Thom said:


> I'd just buy four 6 TB drives, install them in the NAS, and be done with it for a while, hopefully a long while.
> 
> Here's some $140 drives from Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00U..._FMwebp_QL65&keywords=6tb+internal+hard+drive


That's an idea... I was thinking: what a waste of the 4 x 3TB drives I already have, but they're filled, so what if I remove them and save them on a shelf somewhere and do what you said (install 4 x 6 TB drives)? Down the road, if she wants to access shows on the 4 x 3 TB drives that are on my shelf, is it as simple as swapping them back in, and it'll be like it was, and I can see all the shows, or would it detect drive swaps and try to reinitialize or format them or something?

Oh, I guess I need to also see if my Synology NAS supports 6 TB drives.


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## Thom

timckelley said:


> That's an idea... I was thinking: what a waste of the 4 x 3TB drives I already have, but they're filled, so what if I remove them and save them on a shelf somewhere and do what you said (install 4 x 6 TB drives)? Down the road, if she wants to access shows on the 4 x 3 TB drives that are on my shelf, is it as simple as swapping them back in, and it'll be like it was, and I can see all the shows, or would it detect drive swaps and try to reinitialize or format them or something?
> 
> Oh, I guess I need to also see if my Synology NAS supports 6 TB drives.


Keeping track of which shows are on which set of drives, and swapping drive sets when your wife wants to watch something on the other set, is too much hassle. To keep hassle at a minimum (assuming your Synology allows capacity upgrading without losing data), either install 6 TB drives one drive at a time (to allow raid rebuild of data onto each new drive), then tell NAS to use extra capacity, OR (and this is probably best option considering how she uses it) buy yet another NAS, fill it with drives, and put it on your network alongside the existing NAS. Getting and using an extra NAS will probably be the most hassle free option for the future.

I went through the hassle and expense of upgrading TiVos for more capacity so I wouldn't lose shows that "I'll want to watch that eventually", but I finally realized that I was in a race I couldn't win. If I hadn't watched (and deleted) a show by the time the TiVo went to auto-delete it, that meant the show wasn't important to me.

My advice to you is basically the same as it was many years ago: Maximize her TiVo storage capacity; if she doesn't watch a show before the TiVo gets full or auto-deletes it (months and months later), that means the show wasn't important. Let the NAS get full so that her TiVo either auto-deletes or stops recording new shows (no capacity due to unwatched Keep Until I Delete shows filling it). This will force her attention onto which shows are most important to her. This is something all TiVo users have to come to terms with. She's a TiVo addict and you are her enabler.


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## Mikeguy

Fofer said:


> This will never happen.
> 
> I'd say, just erase the current set and start recording new shows on it instead. Forgo the purchase of four 6 TB drives at $140 each. She won't go back and watch those new recordings either. But at least now you've saved yourself the new $560 expense (and hassle.)


No way am *I *going to be around someone who discovers that her content has been erased without notice . . . .


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## Fofer

Okay so how about saying, "_Honey, can we talk? I love you, and enjoy making you happy, but I'm tired of all of this maintenance and expense, to archive all of these old TiVo recordings that you never, ever even watch. The backlog just keeps getting bigger and bigger and it feels like a waste. I'm sorry, but I'm being honest with you, and I hope you understand and that my feelings matter. I kind of hate to bump the thread in the TiVo forum, continually asking for advice about it, it's actually gotten quite embarrassing for me. I'm spending all of this time, and money, and attention, on a project that doesn't actually matter. You're not watching these old shows. All of my work feels like it's for naught. I want to feel vital, I want to feel like my intelligence and efforts are being used for good in this world! Instead, this stockpiling of recordings that will never be watched... <sigh>... it's actually taking a toll on my overall enjoyment of life. And life... it's just so short, isn't it? I want our time together on this earthly plane to be as joyous as possible. Can we work on improving this situation, and deciding that it's okay to delete some of these old recordings? If not, how about I teach you how to maintain it all yourself, so it becomes your project, and not one of mine that feels seriously unhealthy?_"

Or something like that... just spitballing here.


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## RoamioJeff

timckelley said:


> That's an idea... I was thinking: what a waste of the 4 x 3TB drives I already have, but they're filled, so what if I remove them and save them on a shelf somewhere and do what you said (install 4 x 6 TB drives)? Down the road, if she wants to access shows on the 4 x 3 TB drives that are on my shelf, is it as simple as swapping them back in, and it'll be like it was, and I can see all the shows, or would it detect drive swaps and try to reinitialize or format them or something?
> 
> Oh, I guess I need to also see if my Synology NAS supports 6 TB drives.


Face it, you're going to need your own data center.

p.s. I wonder ... how many hours of video per week on average can one record stuff at a rate whereby they can never catch up watching it all. That might be the fundamental question here.


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## JoeKustra

RoamioJeff said:


> p.s. I wonder ... how many hours of video per week on average can one record stuff at a rate whereby they can never catch up watching it all. That might be the fundamental question here.


25 hours?


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## timckelley

Thom said:


> She's a TiVo addict and you are her enabler.


I've seen TV shows about 600 pound women that are too big do normal activities, but have husbands or boyfriends that are enablers when they shovel mammoth amounts of food to her. I've never thought highly of guys that do that, but I never really considered myself as that kind of guy. I guess that's bad if that's what I am.

Well physically she's totally capable of supporting her own habit, but she lacks the IT knowledge to do it. In hindsight, I guess I could have pretended I didn't have the knowledge either, but then I think she'd buy stuff on DVDs like she used to do, and what I'm doing now is far cheaper. In fact putting a stop to DVDs (and saving money) is why I started doing it.

So I guess unlike the 600 pound woman, she actually can feed herself, albeit using expensive methods.


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## RoamioJeff

JoeKustra said:


> 25 hours?


Well, yes, more that 24 hours of recording per day and you could never catch up watching. But that assumes that you never sleep or take any kind of break away from a screen, and have no other life.

More realistically, assuming eight hours of sleep, exercise, reasonable meals, trips to the grocery store, a job, and no other significant leisure activities, I cannot imagine more than 8 hours a day of recordings and staying caught up.


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## Mikeguy

RoamioJeff said:


> Well, yes, more that 24 hours of recording per day and you could never catch up watching. But that assumes that you never sleep or take any kind of break away from a screen, and have no other life.
> 
> More realistically, assuming eight hours of sleep, exercise, reasonable meals, trips to the grocery store, a job, and no other significant leisure activities, I cannot imagine more than 8 hours a day of recordings and staying caught up.


Ah, not quite--that's not calculating in SkipMode QuickMode and, as Fofer notes above, skipping commercials.


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## bkc56

timckelley said:


> She did say that if she can easily get shows willy nilly on demand, maybe she'll reconsider doing all this archiving.


Fact is, she'll never watch everything she has saved (although you may not be able to foresee what she will/won't get to). As such, the availability of shows is all she really needs. Where they are is irrelevant, as long as she has the possibility of watching them should she decide to.

There are SO many sources of shows on the internet. Most networks have recent stuff (typically just the current season). Subscription places like Hulu and Netflix have deeper archives. And there are a host of streaming/torrent sites often with very deep archives (I found this recently that at least looks promising: Watch Movies Online Free - hdonline.to).

Investing some of your time finding online archives of specific shows she's interested in may allow those shows to be purged from physical storage. Just provide a list of bookmarks or shortcuts to the specific site for a given show.

I use this method for anime series I watch. Rather than downloading a copy from some torrent, I save a link or two to a streaming archive where I watched it so I can easily find and watch it again should I want to (which only happens to about a third of them). Saves a LOT of disk space.

Of course there's the risk that a site or show won't be there when needed. But if she never gets around to watching that show, no one will ever know.


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## jcthorne

I say just go for broke and buy the big Synology NAS with future proof expansion options and lots of storage.... Happy wife, happy life. Then again, I may be a bit biased.

Also, online streaming services do not have all content all the time. Series come and go all the time.


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## Mikeguy

There seems to be a very human trait that things always are easier when someone else is doing the work and incurring the cost.

I might suggest that it could be educative to sit down with the wife and explain the options, both in terms of the very real $ costs as well as the time needed for the work, both now and then in the future. Perhaps that will help her gauge the need for the archived show--e.g. is it more beneficial having a year's worth of copies of a daily soap opera around, rather than using the storage costs to go on a 3-day weekend vacation? (No value judgment here--we all have our priorities--but for most of us, options are not limitless.)


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## sushikitten

Fofer said:


> Okay so how about saying, "_Honey, can we talk? I love you, and enjoy making you happy, but I'm tired of all of this maintenance and expense, to archive all of these old TiVo recordings that you never, ever even watch. The backlog just keeps getting bigger and bigger and it feels like a waste. I'm sorry, but I'm being honest with you, and I hope you understand and that my feelings matter. I kind of hate to bump the thread in the TiVo forum, continually asking for advice about it, it's actually gotten quite embarrassing for me. I'm spending all of this time, and money, and attention, on a project that doesn't actually matter. You're not watching these old shows. All of my work feels like it's for naught. I want to feel vital, I want to feel like my intelligence and efforts are being used for good in this world! Instead, this stockpiling of recordings that will never be watched... <sigh>... it's actually taking a toll on my overall enjoyment of life. And life... it's just so short, isn't it? I want our time together on this earthly plane to be as joyous as possible. Can we work on improving this situation, and deciding that it's okay to delete some of these old recordings? If not, how about I teach you how to maintain it all yourself, so it becomes your project, and not one of mine that feels seriously unhealthy?_"
> 
> Or something like that... just spitballing here.


I like this.

Have you tried anything remotely like this over the years?


----------



## m.s

64 pages? (I'm not reading all of that). Just buy her a TiVo of her own, and let her figure out whether she wants to watch/delete shows, or let the TiVo decide for her what to record or delete.


----------



## timckelley

sushikitten said:


> I like this.
> 
> Have you tried anything remotely like this over the years?


Yes, but if I back out of the picture, she'll likely go back to her expensive habit of buying content on DVD online or in stores, and honestly, I prefer the far cheaper current strategy of NAS's over the route of me not being involved (a route I've already tried).


----------



## mattack

timckelley said:


> Actually before we do this, I've been meaning to show her the smart features of our TV that we bought a couple of months ago. She did say that if she can easily get shows willy nilly on demand, maybe she'll reconsider doing all this archiving. So I really need to show her this before I buy any space. I know she watches a lot of stuff on major networks, and all those networks, I think, have free apps I can access on the smart TV to bring up shows. I just don't know if it's all shows that network has made, or a subset, so I don't yet know how satisfied she'll be by it.


I suspect for most shows it's not ALL episodes, usually one of these choices: only this season, previous seasons UP to this season, or the last X episodes.

I've lately been paying for Hulu w/no commercials, MOSTLY because for me, tivo streaming/downloading is so broken (it takes HOURS AND HOURS of retries to get one show successfully downloaded usually -- though I've also watched a few in VLC that I downloaded locally then copied with iTunes).. but anyway, even though Hulu is owned by the networks, you do not get all episodes of all shows.. and I think even the network-specific apps (e.g. on AppleTV) very very very very often have similar limits to what I mentioned above.

So I still am "archiving" shows, but then when I can, watching them commercial free on Hulu, then deleting my local copy either on the Tivo or the external hard drive I downloaded it to.. (esp to make space for Olympics). Yes, it's way too much work... I've long said I'd gladly mostly(*) get rid of cable and even Tivos if ALL shows were available commercial free, perpetually or with VERY clear expiration dates (and I could e.g. sort by-season-by-expiration so I can choose to watch things before they go away)...

(*) I'd probably have at least an OTA-capable Tivo to still record late night talk shows to keep some musical performances. I admit I don't save quite as many as I used to, but those and various PBS music performance shows are ones I like to keep even though I don't watch 'em often.


----------



## mattack

Thom said:


> I went through the hassle and expense of upgrading TiVos for more capacity so I wouldn't lose shows that "I'll want to watch that eventually", but I finally realized that I was in a race I couldn't win. If I hadn't watched (and deleted) a show by the time the TiVo went to auto-delete it, that meant the show wasn't important to me.
> 
> My advice to you is basically the same as it was many years ago: Maximize her TiVo storage capacity; if she doesn't watch a show before the TiVo gets full or auto-deletes it (months and months later), that means the show wasn't important.


I think both of you are on very extreme sides of the argument, though I admit I'm much closer to timckelley's end.. not QUITE that extreme though.. (If I had infinite storage all online, I would be..)

but I absolutely _have_ gone back and watched shows _YEARS_ after recording them. I still have Sleepy Hollow eps I'll get to (I think they're on Hulu, so I may end up watching them at the gym.. but I'm glad I have them on my Tivo just in case).. and I did just watch the last couple of episodes of "Second Chance" (Fox TV show) within the past few months.


----------



## mattack

Mikeguy said:


> Ah, not quite--that's not calculating in SkipMode and, as Fofer notes above, skipping commercials.


I think you mean QuickMode _and_ skipping commercials? (SkipMode is skipping commercials...)


----------



## Mikeguy

mattack said:


> I think you mean QuickMode _and_ skipping commercials? (SkipMode is skipping commercials...)


Yep, right, thanks--too many modes on my mind . . . .


----------



## ClearToLand

timckelley said:


> Yes, but *if I back out of the picture, she'll likely go back to her expensive habit of buying content on DVD online or in stores, and honestly, I prefer the far cheaper current strategy of NAS's* over the route of me not being involved (a route I've already tried).


Does everything have to be available 24x7?

If not, when the NAS gets full, buy some 4-8TB USB HDDs (BestBuy has WD 8TB for $160 most of the time) and off load the oldest material. When the USB HDD is full, create a .TXT file of the directory and store it where you can easily refer back to it to see "What's Where". This way you'll always have a copy of her content and you're not running 18 HDDs 24x7 for nothing.

But, if you need everything available 24x7, go the @jcthorne way and grab the Synology I LINK'd to in your 'Crop Thread' a few minutes ago. You're in a 'Lose / Lose' situation...


----------



## timckelley

I've kind of done that partially. We have a 5 TB external hard drive that's almost full, and I actually wrote a macro that scans to see what's on it, and creates a spreadsheet with the data grouping feature that allows you to drill down to nested folders and everything, so when the HD is offline, she can know what's on it by opening the spreadsheet.

As I mentioned, the risk is that it's not backed up (though I guess somebody suggested this could be remedied by mirroring). But the price is attractive enough, that maybe that's the route I'll keep going. The 4x3TB NAS can remain online 24x7 for use with active archiving. To be honest, I also have a 2x3TB NAS that's online 24/7 (3TB usuable because of mirroring), but I'm using that for nonTiVo related stuff like backing up our PCs.


----------



## ClearToLand

timckelley said:


> I've kind of done that partially. We have a 5 TB external hard drive that's almost full, and I actually wrote a macro that scans to see what's on it, and creates a spreadsheet with the data grouping feature that allows you to drill down to nested folders and everything, so when the HD is offline, she can know what's on it by opening the spreadsheet.
> 
> As I mentioned, the risk is that it's not backed up (though I guess somebody suggested this could be remedied by mirroring). But the price is attractive enough, that maybe that's the route I'll keep going. The 4x3TB NAS can remain online 24x7 for use with active archiving. To be honest, I also have a 2x3TB NAS that's online 24/7 (3TB usuable because of mirroring), but I'm using that for nonTiVo related stuff like backing up our PCs.


The part I question in my own situation (one 2-bay NAS with one 4TB WD Red without RAID, one 4-bay NAS with four 4TB WD Red with RAID5, several 2TB, 3TB, and one 8TB USB HDDs) is why keep HDDs spinning 24x7 when their content isn't required 24x7? Even 3TB is a lot of content to watch with new content arriving daily (most of the year).

I figure that I'll burn up the one 4TB in the 2-bay (Plex and TiVo) and only turn on the 4-bay once-a-week for backups. I limited myself to 2TB and 3TB USB HDDs because of the 'all the eggs in one basket' theory; i.e. how much data can you afford to lose. I bought the 8TB because $130 was too good to pass up.


----------



## Thom

mattack said:


> I think both of you are on very extreme sides of the argument, though I admit I'm much closer to timckelley's end.. not QUITE that extreme though.. (If I had infinite storage all online, I would be..)
> 
> but I absolutely _have_ gone back and watched shows _YEARS_ after recording them. I still have Sleepy Hollow eps I'll get to (I think they're on Hulu, so I may end up watching them at the gym.. but I'm glad I have them on my Tivo just in case).. and I did just watch the last couple of episodes of "Second Chance" (Fox TV show) within the past few months.


I, too, have gone back and watched shows years later. It's an advantage of expanding my TiVos to maximum size dual drives, dual 1 TBs in my Series 3s (now out of service), and dual 6 TBs in my base Roamios. This usually gives me 2 or 3 years to get around to watching a show. It makes it handy to wait and binge watch after the season has ended.


----------



## dfreybur

timckelley said:


> Yes, but if I back out of the picture, she'll likely go back to her expensive habit of buying content on DVD online or in stores, and honestly, I prefer the far cheaper current strategy of NAS's over the route of me not being involved (a route I've already tried).


I have a lot of DVDs I'll never watch. I buy them because I like the series. I buy them even if I watch the series by stream. When I think in terms of price, it's cheaper than going to conventions about that series or genre. Hmm, I go to an SF convention about every decade and it's been about a decade since the last one.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

Do yourself a favor and delete it all. Write zeroes to the disk seven times over and sell the NAS setup on eBay along with the external hard drive(s) and tell your wife this is for her own good.


----------



## timckelley

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Do yourself a favor and delete it all. Write zeroes to the disk seven times over and sell the NAS setup on eBay along with the external hard drive(s) and tell your wife this is for her own good.


Well, I had a good run. 24.5 years of marriage wasn't bad.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

timckelley said:


> Well, I had a good run. 24.5 years of marriage wasn't bad.


I'm sort of joking and sort of serious.  As a reader of this thread it does seem to be excessive/obsessive if these old shows are never watched. Best of luck with sorting this out.


----------



## tatergator1

I heard there's a large, climate controlled "facility" nearby that sounds perfect for a larger RAID array. Just need to do a bit of directional drilling for power/Ethernet hook-up, and negotiate rent with your neighbors. 



Spoiler: For those who don't read the Happy Hour section of the forum



https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu...-discovered-next-to-my-driveway-house.557693/


----------



## DevdogAZ

timckelley said:


> Yes, but if I back out of the picture, she'll likely go back to her expensive habit of buying content on DVD online or in stores, and honestly, I prefer the far cheaper current strategy of NAS's over the route of me not being involved (a route I've already tried).


I think TV shows being released on DVD are getting to be much less common. Shows are now available to purchase by the episode from iTunes or Amazon or Google Play, but hopefully as long as your wife knows the content is there for purchase, she'll realized there's no reason to spend money on them now but can buy them when/if she ever gets around to watching that episode. It will be a difficult transition for her, but in the end, it will make her much happier to be free of the burden of feeling like she has to save everything and simply knowing that if there's something she really wants to see, it's available SOMEWHERE online.


----------



## JoeKustra

timckelley said:


> I've kind of done that partially. We have a 5 TB external hard drive that's almost full, and I actually wrote a macro that scans to see what's on it, and creates a spreadsheet with the data grouping feature that allows you to drill down to nested folders and everything, so when the HD is offline, she can know what's on it by opening the spreadsheet.


Here's a thought. On that spreadsheet, include the hours of recordings. Then calculate the average additions, the average hours spent watching TV and see if you (she) will every have time to watch everything. Just a thought.


----------



## DevdogAZ

I vote Tim needs to set some boundaries. Explain to his wife how much time and money has gone into this hobby of hers and let her know that if she wants it to continue, she's going to have to take care of that burden. If she works and the household needs are covered, then she can spend her own money on buying hard drives or DVDs or on demand episodes. If she doesn't work, then Tim needs to give her an allowance and let her decide how to prioritize her spending. Right now, her hoarding has zero consequences because every time she runs into an issue, Tim jumps through hoops to create more space. But if she had limits on resources, she'd have to decide if it really made sense to spend that time or money on expanding storage space.

Based on what Tim has said, his wife has well over 10 TB of archived video. At an average of 2 GB per hour, that's over 5,000 hours of video. That's enough content for nearly TEN YEARS of viewing at a rate of 8 hours per day, 7 days per week, 365 days per year. And that assumes she's not watching anything new or adding anything else to the archive. She needs to be made aware of the sheer insanity of what she's doing. The reality is that she'll never watch 99% of the stuff she archives. She won't miss it if it gets "accidentally" deleted. There will always be newer and better content for her to watch, and if there is anything older that's worth watching, she'll be able to find it online for streaming or purchase WHEN SHE IS READY TO WATCH. And until she is ready to watch, there is no need for anyone to worry about saving all these episodes that will never be viewed.


----------



## Mikeguy

Fofer said:


> I doubt Mrs. McKelley thinks she will ever watch _everything_. She just likes knowing that she _can_ watch some of it, some time, if she decided she wanted to. And since it's Tim who is enabling this hoarding mindset with his time, money and energy, she figures, why not? It's "free."





DevdogAZ said:


> I vote Tim needs to set some boundaries. Explain to his wife how much time and money has gone into this hobby of hers and let her know that if she wants it to continue, she's going to have to take care of that burden. If she works and the household needs are covered, then she can spend her own money on buying hard drives or DVDs or on demand episodes. If she doesn't work, then Tim needs to give her an allowance and let her decide how to prioritize her spending. Right now, her hoarding has zero consequences because every time she runs into an issue, Tim jumps through hoops to create more space. But if she had limits on resources, she'd have to decide if it really made sense to spend that time or money on expanding storage space.


Exactly--right now it's easy to save everything, as someone else is doing all the work and the costs, seemingly, aren't being considered. Once those factors are figured in, behavior may change. Again--hoard another year of "General Hospital," or go on a vacation with your loving husband?


----------



## timckelley

My wife already does most of the work of maintaining. She uses pyTiVo to transfer, and she organizes them into the proper folders herself. If occasionally pyTiVo stops responds, I'm the one that restarts it, and if we need to expand drive space, I'm the one that does that.


----------



## NJ Webel

timckelley said:


> ... and if we need to expand drive space, I'm the one that does that.


Heh, heh, heh. He said, "IF" they need to expand space...


----------



## Mikeguy

Fofer said:


> At the rate you've been expanding drive space since this thread began almost 15 years ago (!)....
> 
> how much storage space do you estimate her hoard recordings will take up, 15 years from now?
> 
> 30 years from now?
> 
> I wonder if she'll ever watch 1/100th of it. Or even a full season of anything.


There could be a long line to get into the afterlife.


----------



## NorthAlabama

Mikeguy said:


> There could be a long line to get into the afterlife.


not for @timckelley.


----------



## mattack

DevdogAZ said:


> Shows are now available to purchase by the episode from iTunes or Amazon or Google Play, but hopefully as long as your wife knows the content is there for purchase, she'll realized there's no reason to spend money on them now but can buy them when/if she ever gets around to watching that episode.


That's at least $1/episode. As opposed to a $160 8 TB drive that can store way way more than 1000 episodes. (Even if they were 8 gigs apiece, but even NBC shows aren't that big in HD for an hour..) Much much more if they're SD (I still record some things in SD). I actually finally went through a whole ton of late night talk shows before the Olympics started, to make room. (Based on kmttg, I have 100 gigs or more of a couple of different late night shows -- IN SD -- on two tivos..)


----------



## DevdogAZ

mattack said:


> That's at least $1/episode. As opposed to a $160 8 TB drive that can store way way more than 1000 episodes. (Even if they were 8 gigs apiece, but even NBC shows aren't that big in HD for an hour..) Much much more if they're SD (I still record some things in SD). I actually finally went through a whole ton of late night talk shows before the Olympics started, to make room. (Based on kmttg, I have 100 gigs or more of a couple of different late night shows -- IN SD -- on two tivos..)


You missed the point. Most of us think that Tim's wife will never watch 99% of the stuff she is archiving. It's simply not possible. So she likely won't ever need to actually spend any of that money. It's just the knowledge that the shows are available to purchase and stream IF SHE EVER DECIDES IT'S TIME TO WATCH that will free her up to stop archiving. But given the massive amounts of things she already has saved and the fact that so much is available on Netflix and Amazon and Hulu, the likelihood that she'll ever actually end up purchasing any of these episodes is very remote.


----------



## timckelley

I will say that multiple time I fine myself watching interesting stuff my wife records, but I do watch it while it's still on the TiVo, not from the NAS. A couple of notable examples that come to mind are "The Gifted" and "Designated Survivor". I'm now watching every ep they make of those two shows, as I find them entertaining. Sadly, I don't think my wife has watched either show, even though she's recording them (because she thought they would be good shows to watch). There are other example like this that happened (I think "Timeless " is one, but that's a discontinued/cancelled show.)

I don't do as good a job as she does sniffing out good shows that might be worth watching, possibly because I don't watch commercials, so I don't see the advertisements. She does watch commercials, so I suppose in a way I get the best of both worlds: I don't have to waste my time with commercials, but I benefit from her commercials research.


----------



## JoeKustra

timckelley said:


> There are other example like this that happened (I think "Timeless " is one, but that's a discontinued/cancelled show.)


Second half of the season starts on 3/11.


----------



## timckelley

JoeKustra said:


> Second half of the season starts on 3/11.


I thought it was discontinued like a year ago or something, ending with the end of the 1st and only season. Is there an entire first half of a second season somewhere? Our OnePass hasn't been picking it up.


----------



## timckelley

Fofer said:


> Wait. She watches commercials? I thought one of the biggest reasons she preferred DVR recordings over streaming on demand was that she could skip commercials.


No, that's not the biggest reason.


----------



## JoeKustra

timckelley said:


> I thought it was discontinued like a year ago or something, ending with the end of the 1st and only season. Is there an entire first half of a second season somewhere? Our OnePass hasn't been picking it up.


I was almost right. From Wiki:

NBC cancelled the series after one season on May 10, 2017. Three days later, following negotiations with Sony Pictures Television, NBC renewed the series for a ten-episode second season. It is set to premiere on March 11, 2018.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

timckelley said:


> I thought it was discontinued like a year ago or something, ending with the end of the 1st and only season. Is there an entire first half of a second season somewhere? Our OnePass hasn't been picking it up.


Second season starts next month, first season ended last year.


----------



## timckelley

Fofer said:


> What is the biggest reason?


That she knows she'll always have access to it. She's not yet sure that all the shows she's keeping are available on demand.


----------



## bkc56

timckelley said:


> She's not yet sure that all the shows she's keeping are available on demand.


It doesn't have to be ALL. Each one that you/she can find that IS available is one less that needs to be recorded and archived. Even if you can only verify half of the stuff she wants, that would be a significant amount of storage freed up.


----------



## jcthorne

bkc56 said:


> It doesn't have to be ALL. Each one that you/she can find that IS available is one less that needs to be recorded and archived. Even if you can only verify half of the stuff she wants, that would be a significant amount of storage freed up.


What is available on a streaming service today could and does disappear tomorrow. They change out what shows they have for streaming all the time. If you want access to your shows, when you want them, streaming services other than building your own will never be a substitute.


----------



## Mikeguy

The "solution" for harmony possibly being, simply biting on the expense and putting large drives into the TiVo box and then transferring shows to a PC external drive as the TiVo gets filled, storing those drives away until needed (if ever). I'd make the person who wants the shows do the work and incur the expense.


----------



## timckelley

She's willing to do the work to the extent she feels able to. While I've taught her how to use pyTiVo, installing new HDs or NAS's is something I'd have a hard time teaching her, as she seems to have a hard time learning IT concepts. Even simple spreadsheet stuff she needs help with. I think the reason she mostly knows how to use pyTiVo [1] is because she uses it regularly, so it's drilled into her now. As for who incurs the expense, I consider all our money family money, so the family will incur the expense.

[1] Except when it stops working, and then I have to relaunch it. However, relaunching is pretty simple, only takes seconds, and is something I could probably teach her, due to it's simplicity. Or sometimes it fails because the drive gets full, and I have to check on that. I have taught her how to do that, because it's so simple, but she always forgets how, probably because this doesn't come up often. Also when that happens, and we transfer stuff to our external HD, I don't use windows because of the size of the files... I use synology directly to do it (runs faster), and she doesn't know how to do that. I suppose I could try to teach her that, but it might not go well, because it's not simple, especially the part where I verify the copy was successful before deleting the originals. In summary, as long as it's very simple, I can teach it to her.


----------



## Mikeguy

The external backup hassle could be made easiest (for you personally) simply by using external backup drives (or even external bare drive carriers/holders and bare drives). And then your wife simply takes charge of backing up what she wants to save to your PC and external backup, and catalogs it somehow as she is doing so, if simply in a text document (or paper notebook!). Personally, I would just make sure that she sees the expenses involved, so that she understands the cost of her "habit." We all have out own priorities and our own financial limitations.


----------



## bkc56

jcthorne said:


> What is available on a streaming service today could and does disappear tomorrow.


Given the situation of the OP, it's unlikely the streaming content will ever actually be needed for viewing. If it is, and it's unavailable, the response is simply: "Oops, looks like it's not here. Let's see if we can find a different source".


----------



## timckelley

LooseWiring said:


> Upgrade.
> 
> Your wife preferably, but upgrading your TiVo should work almost as well.


Isn't it ironic that the very first reply in this long thread, may turn out to be the final solution. My wife and I are breaking up right now, and so this long fought problem may soon have a permanent solution.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

timckelley said:


> Isn't it ironic that the very first reply in this long thread, may turn out to be the final solution. My wife and I are breaking up right now, and so this long fought problem may soon have a permanent solution.


Solves one problem but presents many new ones. All the best to you.


----------



## dwatt

This is all a bad dream. Let's get back to the cave thread.


----------



## unitron

timckelley said:


> Isn't it ironic that the very first reply in this long thread, may turn out to be the final solution. My wife and I are breaking up right now, and so this long fought problem may soon have a permanent solution.


And you think that merely breaking up is going to get you out of ongoing tech support duties?


----------



## DevdogAZ

I'm sorry to hear that, Tim. Good luck to you.


----------



## nuraman00

timckelley said:


> Isn't it ironic that the very first reply in this long thread, may turn out to be the final solution. My wife and I are breaking up right now, and so this long fought problem may soon have a permanent solution.


That's too bad. That's an unfortunate turn in a 15.5 year old thread.


----------



## evanborkow

I hope it's not over the TiVo.


----------



## Polcamilla

I'm really sorry to hear that, Tim! You've had more than your share of challenges together and I know that many of those challenges won't go away when you part. Best of luck to you through all of this!


----------



## JoeKustra

nuraman00 said:


> That's too bad. That's an unfortunate turn in a 15.5 year old thread.


That's longer than I was married. I did not repeat my mistake.


----------



## Polcamilla

Alright, I went back and skimmed the last few pages (oh, who am I kidding, I re-read the whole thread!).

Just one observation. In the 15 1/2 years this thread has been going, ALL of our television watching habits have changed dramatically. At the start of this thread, I had a 2 1/2 year old and we recorded about 5 episodes at a time of about 3-4 shows (Maisy, Blue's Clues, and I forget what else). A decade and a half later, I have 3 children, the youngest of whom is 11 1/2. They currently record ONE show on our TiVo each week and that is Doctor Who. The younger two primarily watch YouTube videos for entertainment. The oldest will stream television, but almost nothing currently "on the air". He's been working his way through Chuck and How I Met Your Mother and I just introduced him to Burn Notice (these are all through Hulu or Amazon Prime). He's watched Game of Thrones up to where he's read in the books and sometimes watches John Oliver with us (through HBO Go). When any of them want to watch something, they look for it on streaming on our Apple TV. They don't have a real sense of what a "channel" is or that something "airs" at a certain time, except for knowing that new episodes of Doctor Who are released on Sundays.

We have two TiVos, neither of which are full, and the downstairs one mostly contains reruns of things like Phineas & Ferb which nobody has watched in years.


----------



## sliderbob

Dang! 80 hrs? I bought a Tivo Roamio 500gb a few years ago and, last year, upgraded the hard drive to 8TB. Less than a $200 investment for the drive. I think there are 14TB drives out now..lol. I am just waiting for the 1 Petabyte drive (that is 1,000 TB)


----------



## nuraman00

Polcamilla said:


> Alright, I went back and skimmed the last few pages (oh, who am I kidding, I re-read the whole thread!).
> 
> *Just one observation. In the 15 1/2 years this thread has been going, ALL of our television watching habits have changed dramatically.* At the start of this thread, I had a 2 1/2 year old and we recorded about 5 episodes at a time of about 3-4 shows (Maisy, Blue's Clues, and I forget what else). A decade and a half later, I have 3 children, the youngest of whom is 11 1/2. They currently record ONE show on our TiVo each week and that is Doctor Who. The younger two primarily watch YouTube videos for entertainment. The oldest will stream television, but almost nothing currently "on the air". He's been working his way through Chuck and How I Met Your Mother and I just introduced him to Burn Notice (these are all through Hulu or Amazon Prime). He's watched Game of Thrones up to where he's read in the books and sometimes watches John Oliver with us (through HBO Go). When any of them want to watch something, they look for it on streaming on our Apple TV. They don't have a real sense of what a "channel" is or that something "airs" at a certain time, except for knowing that new episodes of Doctor Who are released on Sundays.
> 
> We have two TiVos, neither of which are full, and the downstairs one mostly contains reruns of things like Phineas & Ferb which nobody has watched in years.


I watch more TV than I did 15.5 years ago. Partly because there's even more sports coverage than before, with more games on national TV, and dedicated channels like NBA TV, MLB Network, and Tennis Channel.

What about your viewing habits, that weren't tied to your kids? What adult programs did you watch 15.5 years ago, and what about now?


----------



## Polcamilla

nuraman00 said:


> I watch more TV than I did 15.5 years ago. Partly because there's even more sports coverage than before, with more games on national TV, and dedicated channels like NBA TV, MLB Network, and Tennis Channel.
> 
> What about your viewing habits, that weren't tied to your kids? What adult programs did you watch 15.5 years ago, and what about now?


Honestly, in the past couple years, I've cut down on ALL my television watching a lot. Very few network shows have captured my interest and most of those that have then got summarily cancelled. I fell into and then out of watching the comic pundits (Daily Show, Colbert, John Oliver, the last of which I DO still watch but is only once a week at best). Weirdly, Hulu has offered me the most compelling options lately (Handmaid's Tale, Harlots) but they tend to be very short seasons. I don't watch news or sports and the only weekly network shows I even try to keep up on (as in, watch at least once a month) are The Good Place and Young Sheldon. Occasionally when I need to complete a sewing project, I'll find something to binge and if it's a network show, I'll typically find it on Hulu, watch whatever episodes are available, then not go back to it later.


----------



## timckelley

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Solves one problem but presents many new ones. All the best to you.


by the way, the tivo is not really the cause. We've had a lot of problems for a long time, and even had counseling. To be honest, she's the one who has asked for years to split up, and I've always resisted, for many reasons because I want to be with my son 7 days a week. But this last summer made me realize that I can live with him half a week and not really be upset. (She spent many days at her mother's with my son.) He's 19 years old now, which makes that easier. I do feel sure that I would be happier at this point to be split up, and I think she'd be happier too. Ironically, she's starting to kind of resist now that I finally agree, partly because I represent her financial stability. But that's not reasonable to me agree to have her always yelling at me just for the sake of supporting her, and really she'll be okay, as I assume she has legal rights to half my money, which is a lot of money.


----------



## timckelley

By the way, she asked me who gets which TiVos. I told her my favorite is the Bolt and she's welcome to have both the Roamio and the Premiere. One Bolt is more than enough for my needs. She's been infringing bigtime on the Bolt which is supposed to my TiVo anyway, but I guess that infringement will be ending. To reference the OP of this, I do delete my recordings, and this Bolt will truly be as a TiVo should be.


----------



## timckelley

Now that I think of it, I should also the cut the cord. She's the main reason I have this big line up of channels. OTA plus internet content is enough for me.


----------



## Mikeguy

timckelley said:


> By the way, she asked me who gets which TiVos. I told her my favorite is the Bolt and she's welcome to have both the Roamio and the Premiere. One Bolt is more than enough for my needs. She's been infringing bigtime on the Bolt which is supposed to my TiVo anyway, but I guess that infringement will be ending. To reference the OP of this, I do delete my recordings, and this Bolt will truly be as a TiVo should be.


It's kind of funny--who gets custody of the TiVo boxes? 

Best of luck and wishes to you in these coming months and chapters--


----------



## timckelley

Maybe in lieu of child support I’ll be forced to provide tech support of her TiVo’s, given the fact that I did father them.


----------



## nuraman00

timckelley said:


> Maybe in lieu of child support* I'll be forced to provide tech support of her TiVo's*, given the fact that I did father them.


That will probably take hours per incident.


----------



## nuraman00

timckelley said:


> I like the second TiVo idea, but it's so expensive! $250 for the TiVO, $300 for the lifetime service. Total $550 layout for a second TiVo. That's a little hard to digest.


Is that $300 lifetime service a discounted one, for a returning member?

Or was that the full rate in 2003?

Because for me, in 2013, it was $371 for a Premiere XL4, and $500 for the lifetime service.


----------



## nuraman00

phone1 said:


> Yes I agree about the second TiVo, but don't tell your wife. Rent the "other" TiVo it's own apartment and visit it on your lunch hour and weekends. Oh yes, there will need to be the occasional over night "business trip" during sweeps week, your favorite playoffs, etc.


LOL!


----------



## nuraman00

Polcamilla said:


> Any kids' show that is halfway decent and even vaguely educational does not get dropped lightly. With three networks doing an intense amount of educational kids programming (PBS, Nickelodeon, and Noggin), content is definitely at a premium. They'll rotate great shows in and out of the schedule and repackage them as needed. I've taped a *lot* of vintage 70's Sesame Street for my toddler (*because I loathe what they've done to Sesame Street recently*) and have a current wishlist for The Electric Company so I can hoard up a bunch of the Spiderman clips and pass them on to a TiVo-less friend whose son is crazy about Spiderman. I'm not familiar with the first two shows your wife is saving but Between The Lions is a big one and I'd be shocked if it they stopped broadcasting it in the next few years.
> 
> As for her own shows, more and more programs are being offered by-the-season on DVD (for rental or purchase). When my husband and I get around to watching Buffy, this is probably how we're going to do it. She might consider just letting a few shows go for now and buying them instead of hand-archiving them so she can have them on hand for later. *This is what we'll probably end up doing for Firefly* (well, except, renting, not buying). And, again, one never knows when some cheesy program or another is going to get picked up by a cable channel (think Max Headroom on TechTV).


What did they do the Sesame Street?

Too bad about Firefly. I didn't watch it, but my roommate at the time liked it.


----------



## nuraman00

rtype said:


> Dear abobrow
> 
> Remind your wife that when she entered into the institution of marriage, she agreed to two understood principles. The first principle states that a woman shall not have possession or otherwise seek to restrict the usage of her husband's television remote control. The second states that a woman shall not adjust, tamper with or otherwise impede her husband's ability to set the thermostat.
> 
> Because these principles are understood and were perhaps not explicitly stated in your marriage agreement, many women have come to the conclusion that this agreement is by and large unenforcable. If she brings this to your attention, remind her that she did agree to these conditions of marriage whether they were explicitly stated or not. Also, you may remind her that if she chooses to continue to ignore this warning that you may choose to ignore two or more of the conditions of marriage which you agreed to that she may also find unenforcable.
> 
> If she understands the implication of your warning and chooses to suspend her interference with your operation of the television remote control and thermostat, *you may, if you choose, decide to provide her with a gift of a blanket or a quilt kit in lieu of jewelry or other gift items at your next occasion.*
> 
> Good luck with retraining your spouse. Remember that if things don't work out, newer models are available.


That would be if the wife liked a warmer temperature than the husband, and the thermostat was set too high to trigger the heater.

What if the wife liked a cooler temperature, and didn't like the heater being triggered as often as it did? And she was already wearing short sleeved clothes.


----------



## tenthplanet

timckelley said:


> Maybe in lieu of child support I'll be forced to provide tech support of her TiVo's, given the fact that I did father them.


Be careful the universe may be listening and you'll have to do both..


----------



## nuraman00

timckelley said:


> The funny thing is, that not only does she periodically buy new blank tapes, but once in awhile,* I come home to find she's bought a new bookshelf for me to put together.* After all, something has to hold these tapes.


"Hi honey, I have some new furniture for you to assemble."


----------



## nuraman00

timckelley said:


> Oops! Somebody mentioned this to me earlier, but I thought he was talking about my sig. Thanks.... I've now updated the username subtitle.


What was the old username subtitle?

EDIT: Nevermind, someone reposted it on page 11.


----------



## DevdogAZ

It's kind of ridiculous when someone starts reading a thread that is many years old and is replying to posts made over a decade ago. Maybe catch up on the thread before deciding whether a reply is necessary or warranted.


----------



## nuraman00

timckelley said:


> Yes, mine's unsubbed, and I don't have HMO. Plus, I should mention that I have 194 hours, but she only has 80. She really ought to have the one with more space, but she needs the guide data more than I do. (I also really like having 194 hours, because it means I can TiVo everything at Best Quality.) I've told her that if need be, I can upgrade her TiVo to have more space. But we're holding off on that for now, because even though she's occupying space on my TiVo, I still have 6+ screens worth of suggestions on it, so space is not a problem yet. (Suggestions came in during the first month I had it when it was subbed by the original owner, who finally got smart and cancelled her sub - I got several weeks of free guide data, hehehe!)
> 
> My latest thinking though, is that if space gets to be a problem, I might consider offloading her stuff to a tape and handing her the tape. She's already told me she wouldn't object to that. (She's also made it clear that she has no idea when she'll ever get to watch her stuff that's on my TiVo, but I am *not* to delete it - unless it's been offloaded to tape, that is.) The only bad thing is the menial work of offloading, but I suppose if I kicked off one show per night as I go to bed, I could make serious progress towards getting her stuff off my TiVo.


How do you record stuff if your Tivo is unsubscibed?

Or are you transferring shows from one Tivo to another, using some software? I think you said that's what you're doing? I'm just a bit confused about how you're doing this.


----------



## nuraman00

DevdogAZ said:


> It's kind of ridiculous when someone starts reading a thread that is many years old and is replying to posts made over a decade ago. Maybe catch up on the thread before deciding whether a reply is necessary or warranted.


I agree in general. I just didn't think there was a chance someone would have posted what his original username subtitle was.

Since that's one of the things that once it's changed, you can't see what the old version was anymore.


----------



## Fofer

Yes, but you're commenting on posts from almost 15 years ago.


----------



## timckelley

nuraman00 said:


> How do you record stuff if your Tivo is unsubscibed?
> 
> Or are you transferring shows from one Tivo to another, using some software? I think you said that's what you're doing? I'm just a bit confused about how you're doing this.


I think a long time ago I had an unsubbed series 1, and used manual repeating recordings. I might have had the abilithy to watch on different TVs using some technology that let me operate TiVos from a different room and having the signal piped over. That was probably before HMO.

Today we have only subbed TiVos, and transferring between them is a standard feature, but most of our transfers are to an NAS device, using pyTiVo, software developed by one our TCFers here, and he has shared his software for free.


----------



## nuraman00

I didn't know you could still record on a Tivo, even if it was unsubscribed. So you just knew when programs would air, and then set it?

You knew when all of your programs would start (such as when a new season starts)? Just looked up on the internet when the start date and time would be, during each season?

Do you recommend pyTivo, or MFSTools?


----------



## nuraman00

Fofer said:


> Yes, but you're commenting on posts from almost 15 years ago.


And I wanted to understand the joke. Someone said he should now update his user name signature to something else, but I didn't know what the original signature was. Luckily someone reposted it, so I could understand the joke.

And it's only been a few comments. For the rest of the posts I've read so far, people had good responses to the more immediate and important questions or topics he had.

I've read 20 pages so far, and it's only a few comments or questions I had.

I also found it interesting to learn what the subscription fee was back then, in 2003 - 2006. And interesting that Tivos had modems built-in. I never thought about that, since when I got a Tivo, broadband had been around.


----------



## timckelley

nuraman00 said:


> I didn't know you could still record on a Tivo, even if it was unsubscribed. So you just knew when programs would air, and then set it?
> 
> You knew when all of your programs would start (such as when a new season starts)? Just looked up on the internet when the start date and time would be, during each season?
> 
> Do you recommend pyTivo, or MFSTools?


Yes, back then I read the TV schedule and manually programmed it. Only series 1s let you do this without subbing, I'm pretty sure. My series 1 eventually broke and I had to replace it.

IIRC, MFStools is for copying whole drives, while pyTiVo lets you pick and choose individual shows for transferring. pyTivo may not be the easier things to figure out how to use, but I'm not sure what the alternatives to that are. When I ran into problems, the author himself sometimes helped me with it.


----------



## ggieseke

timckelley said:


> Yes, back then I read the TV schedule and manually programmed it. Only series 1s let you do this without subbing, I'm pretty sure. My series 1 eventually broke and I had to replace it.


Even that required a Series 1 that was bought before a certain date (Nov 2000?) and a custom tweak by TiVo.


----------



## DVR_Dave

At one point, you could manually record on an unsubscribed Series 2 as long as it wasn't connected to the mother ship.

IIRC, you had to disconnect from the mother ship prior to or within a certain time frame of unsubscribing, or TiVo would send a kill signal.


----------



## bkc56

Sort of a sad turn for a thread I've been following since day-1.

I agree with the comment about changing viewing habits. We still have our two Tivos (bolts) recording, but the season pass list is getting shorter every year. We're watching a lot more movies (either physical media or Vudu).


----------



## nuraman00

I'm partway through page 37 now.

@*timckelley*, I had a question about your setup.

In this post, you mention hooking up a Tivo to a HD monitor, via a HDMI to VGA converter.

Wife won't delete recordings

What resolution were you viewing, then? Isn't VGA an analog input? If so, what were the differences in what you were seeing, versus if you had connected the Tivo to a HD TV or monitor via HDMI?

Also, again, I haven't finished reading the thread. But I don't think I've seen an update on your son (unless it's between pages 37 - 64). Well you gave us an update that he splits time between you and your wife, but was just wondering if there was anything else you wanted to share.

There were a few mentions in 2003, and maybe 2004.

How is he doing? How did he do when the house was flooded in September 2010?

Does he still watch TV on Tivo? Does he operate it by himself?

Also, I don't think you unnecessarily bumped this thread. For example, on page 35, it went from December 2009 - July 2011. A 1.5 year span. So you had updates or questions appropriately.


----------



## timckelley

It was considered an HD CRT monitor. I think I got 1084p (or was it 1084i?) resolution if I remember correctly. My son sometimes watches TiVo but my wife operates the remote during that. But in general I think he enjoys watching YouTube on his iPad over the TV


----------



## Polcamilla

timckelley said:


> My son sometimes watches TiVo but my wife operates the remote during that. But in general I think he enjoys watching YouTube on his iPad over the TV


I read the first sentence and thought, "Oh, so his autism severely restricts his ability to function." Then I got to the second setence. "Wait, no...he's just pretty typical for his generation in not having much use for the TV."


----------



## timckelley

He does have low function, but I'm sure that if we wanted to teach him how to operate the TiVo remote, and if he really enjoyed the TiVo, he could learn to do it. He enjoys his iPad, so he learned how to operate it. Even though he can't talk, when youtube gets stuck, he saw how I was removing it from memory and relaunching it, and without me teaching it, he figured it out just from when he saw me do it. I'm sure the reason is because he was motivated to, because he really likes youtube. It's his favorite app. If he's motivated, he learns how to do stuff. With TiVo, my wife thinks she has a show he'd like, so she'll start playing it in hopes he looks at it instead of his iPad.


----------



## Thom

timckelley said:


> By the way, she asked me who gets which TiVos. I told her my favorite is the Bolt and she's welcome to have both the Roamio and the Premiere. One Bolt is more than enough for my needs. She's been infringing bigtime on the Bolt which is supposed to my TiVo anyway, but I guess that infringement will be ending. To reference the OP of this, I do delete my recordings, and this Bolt will truly be as a TiVo should be.


So, you get the Bolt, she gets the Roamio and Premiere.

Who gets the NAS Box(es) that store most of her shows? You might be doing TiVo Tech Support for life (hers *or* yours! )


----------



## timckelley

She should get the 12 TB NAS (9 TB usable storage due to raid array) and the external HDs, while I think i should get the 6 TB NAS (3 TB usable storage due to mirroring), because I've been using that one for nonTiVo purposes. But you're right, she would need tech support. Maybe I should agree to give it under the condition she can't get snippy with me or I walk out.

This kind of brings me to another possible difficult TiVo development: Her mother has an irrational fear of TiVos and doesn't want them in the house.   (Maybe I should let that sink in for dramatic effect....)

For now, my wife comes here to my house to visit her TiVos, but I'd like the long term solution be for her to take them with her. I suggested how about she keep them out of the living room, so her mother doesn't have to see them. I think part of the deal is her mother hates multiple remotes and excessive cabling around the place. I also know when I got a Harmony remote to unify all devices, my wife eventually rejected it in favor of separate remotes, and I don't completely blame her. When it powers on the different devices, you have to make sure it's pointing towards them while you do it. The great thing about our current TiVo remotes is that you can point them in any direction and they still work. (I guess because they don't use IR signals I think.)

I hope she can get her mother to accept her TiVos if she agrees to keep them out of their living room. She could put them both in her bedroom. We already have two of our 3 TiVos in the same room, so she is used to dealing with 2 TiVos in the same room. (Not her mother though, who is afraid of TiVos).

(I think I succeeded in keeping the thread on topic, since the Coffee House requires all threads to be TiVo related.  )


----------



## Fofer

timckelley said:


> Her mother has an irrational fear of TiVos and doesn't want them in the house.


Fear?


----------



## Aero 1

timckelley said:


> She should get the 12 TB NAS (9 TB usable storage due to raid array) and the external HDs, while I think i should get the 6 TB NAS (3 TB usable storage due to mirroring), because I've been using that one for nonTiVo purposes. But you're right, she would need tech support. Maybe I should agree to give it under the condition she can't get snippy with me or I walk out.
> 
> This kind of brings me to another possible difficult TiVo development: Her mother has an irrational fear of TiVos and doesn't want them in the house.   (Maybe I should let that sink in for dramatic effect....)
> 
> For now, my wife comes here to my house to visit her TiVos, but I'd like the long term solution be for her to take them with her. I suggested how about she keep them out of the living room, so her mother doesn't have to see them. I think part of the deal is her mother hates multiple remotes and excessive cabling around the place. I also know when I got a Harmony remote to unify all devices, my wife eventually rejected it in favor of separate remotes, and I don't completely blame her. When it powers on the different devices, you have to make sure it's pointing towards them while you do it. The great thing about our current TiVo remotes is that you can point them in any direction and they still work. (I guess because they don't use IR signals I think.)
> 
> I hope she can get her mother to accept her TiVos if she agrees to keep them out of their living room. She could put them both in her bedroom. We already have two of our 3 TiVos in the same room, so she is used to dealing with 2 TiVos in the same room. (Not her mother though, who is afraid of TiVos).
> 
> (I think I succeeded in keeping the thread on topic, since the Coffee House requires all threads to be TiVo related.  )


----------



## nuraman00

Finished reading the thread. I read the first 48 pages in about 2 weeks. Then the rate slowed down over the holidays.

But today I finished what was remaining.

I enjoyed all of the question, support, and advice that was given in this thread. Also interesting to track the technology changes in relation to Tivo, and storage solutions.

If any future Tivo related developments occur, or if timckelley wants to provide any other type of update, I'll be caught up now in this thread.


----------



## timckelley

My condolences on the large chunk of your life you must have lost, reading this behemoth thread.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Fortunately for Tim, it seems he will no longer have to deal with this problem.


----------



## timckelley

I suppose as an update even though I’m separated from my wife she still has season passes on my TiVo. I’m guessing that she’ll never look at it, but I suppose to be nice I just should at least ask her if it’s OK to delete her stuff off of my TiVo. It’s at around 90% full right now so I’m not losing anything, but it could be nice to reclaim it as my own TiVo. There’s two other TiVos in the house which are her TiVos so I think I deserve at least one full TiVo.

I know she doesn’t want to lose the stuff on her other two TiVos; she asked me if I could set them up at her mother’s house where she’s living, in such a way she can watch the content without necessarily connecting it to the mothership. I told her I think it does have to connect at least occasionally so that the host company doesn’t shut down the whole box. I don’t know if I’m correct in that or not because they are lifetimed TiVos.


----------



## Mikeguy

timckelley said:


> I suppose as an update even though I'm separated from my wife she still has season passes on my TiVo. I'm guessing that she'll never look at it, but I suppose to be nice I just should at least ask her if it's OK to delete her stuff off of my TiVo. It's at around 90% full right now so I'm not losing anything, but it could be nice to reclaim it as my own TiVo. There's two other TiVos in the house which are her TiVos so I think I deserve at least one full TiVo.
> 
> I know she doesn't want to lose the stuff on her other two TiVos; she asked me if I could set them up at her mother's house where she's living, in such a way she can watch the content without necessarily connecting it to the mothership. I told her I think it does have to connect at least occasionally so that the host company doesn't shut down the whole box. I don't know if I'm correct in that or not because they are lifetimed TiVos.


1. You're a nice guy.

2. If the boxes are Lifetime'd, why not have them connect to the Internet/mothership, for full operability? The only reason I can see is, if the house doesn't have Internet or a convenient Internet connection to use (e.g. WiFi or Ethernet/MoCA). Depending on the TiVo box model, some models want an Internet connection and don't function as well without it. Having said that, I'm not aware that TiVo will shut down a Lifetime'd box that doesn't make periodic connections (is there a 1 or 2-year check?); and even if a box is "shut down," it still will function for playback of what it's already recorded to a connected television.


----------



## timckelley

I think her mother has a phobia of extra wires in the house. But she does have internet, including wifi. I also have a wireless USB adapter, so she doesn't necessarily have to run a wire all the way to the router, so I'm thinking she could be hooked up that way.


----------



## Fofer

DevdogAZ said:


> Fortunately for Tim, it seems he will no longer have to deal with this problem.


I wouldn't be so sure about that.


----------



## Mikeguy

timckelley said:


> I think her mother has a phobia of extra wires in the house. But she does have internet, including wifi. I also have a wireless USB adapter, so she doesn't necessarily have to run a wire all the way to the router, so I'm thinking she could be hooked up that way.


Yep. And depending on the TiVo box model, a separate adapter may not be needed, if it's already built in. Easiest all round, it seems to me, just to add into the WiFi network, avoiding workability issues.


----------



## Thom

timckelley said:


> I suppose as an update even though I'm separated from my wife she still has season passes on my TiVo. I'm guessing that she'll never look at it, but I suppose to be nice I just should at least ask her if it's OK to delete her stuff off of my TiVo. It's at around 90% full right now so I'm not losing anything, but it could be nice to reclaim it as my own TiVo. There's two other TiVos in the house which are her TiVos so I think I deserve at least one full TiVo.
> 
> I know she doesn't want to lose the stuff on her other two TiVos; she asked me if I could set them up at her mother's house where she's living, in such a way she can watch the content without necessarily connecting it to the mothership. I told her I think it does have to connect at least occasionally so that the host company doesn't shut down the whole box. I don't know if I'm correct in that or not because they are lifetimed TiVos.


Move her shows off your TiVo to a NAS, then install the NAS and her two TiVos at her mother's house. Even if it means buying an extra NAS.


----------



## timckelley

Except many of her shows are copy protected so you can’t move those to an NAS.


----------



## Mikeguy

Hook the TiVo boxes up and then it's your wife's time to look after her own needs and wants.


----------



## Thom

Buy yourself a new TiVo, and give her your old TiVo that has her shows.

If you have a NAS or two filled with her shows, give her the NAS and buy yourself a new one. Move the TiVo and the NAS to her mom's house, and her TiVos become her responsibility.


----------



## timckelley

I had powered down her NAS and shut down the laptop that was running pyTivo, but since her TiVo’s are still here recording stuff (and she doesn’t live here anymore), she recently asked me if I can start moving her shows onto the NAS via pyTiVo. I’ve been pretty busy lately but I probably should help her out.

She’s the one who does the transferring of shows, but she asked me to do it because she’s not in the house and I am. I guess I do have an incentive because my own TiVo (the Bolt) still has shows of hers taking up space.


----------



## timckelley

At some point in the future I’m guessing that the NAS should be set up in her house. But she won’t know how to maintain it. There’s really nothing to do to maintain it except when a hard drive crashes which doesn’t happen often but has happened. What I do then is immediately power the whole thing down before any other drives can crash then buy a new one and replace the bad drive and tell it to rebuild the raid array from the other three drives. (it has a total of four drives.) She’d have no earthly idea how to do any of that and I bet she’ll ask me to do it when the time comes. Of course if she ignores the error messages and doesn’t tell me and waits until a second drive fails, she can start losing her shows. But knowing her if she sees error messages, she almost certainly will text me about them.

Also I think of a drive fails, an alarm starts going off which is an annoying sound and she’s certainly going to want to do something about that.


----------



## timckelley

Speaking of which she’s not being very quick on this divorce thing. I filed the divorce with the courthouse and sent her a copy of the petition for divorce along with a waiver for being served, and she needs to sign and notarize that so I can return it to the court... it’s been a couple weeks and she still hasn’t signed it.

I think she’s in no rush for this divorce even though she’s the one who’s been asking for it for years. She’s starting to act like I’m the one that wants the divorce. Actually I believe we both do, but she may be giving other people the impression that I’m the homewrecker.

Honestly this would never have happened if it weren’t for the fact that for year after year she’s asked me countless times for a divorce so I don’t feel like it’s my fault. I resisted at first but now that I’ve accepted it, I would like to move forward.


----------



## Mikeguy

I guess that she's going to have to learn how to look out for herself and run her own TiVo box and NAS show.

If she has shows on your TiVo box, I would transfer them to the NAS--is it her part of the property? if not, I would let her know that you are happy to send it to her, at the cost to her of a replacement NAS for you--and then send the NAS and her TiVo boxes to her, for handling as she wishes. (If there are some shows that cannot be transferred, that's life--she likely can get them elsewhere, if she wants to. I would let her know of this issue and perhaps give her the option of buying your TiVo box from you, if you wish (and if you, then, won't be losing your own shows), at the full cost to her of a new TiVo box plus subscription for you.) And if something happens to the NAS in the future, like a crash, she'll have to handle it, just like other aspects of her own electronics/PC and other life.

As to the waiver of service of process: I would nicely give her a firm deadline date/time for the return of the signed form to you and in you hands (probably a week, absent some timing issue) and let her know that you understand that she is busy, but that if she doesn't return the signed form to you, in your hands, by that time, you will have to give instructions to have her formally served the next day and that the unfortunate cost will have to be ascribed to her.

Draw the lines.


----------



## Edmund

Who gets the OFA urc-8820 remote?


----------



## DevdogAZ

timckelley said:


> Speaking of which she's not being very quick on this divorce thing. I filed the divorce with the courthouse and sent her a copy of the petition for divorce along with a waiver for being served, and she needs to sign and notarize that so I can return it to the court... it's been a couple weeks and she still hasn't signed it.
> 
> I think she's in no rush for this divorce even though she's the one who's been asking for it for years. She's starting to act like I'm the one that wants the divorce. Actually I believe we both do, but she may be giving other people the impression that I'm the homewrecker.
> 
> Honestly this would never have happened if it weren't for the fact that for year after year she's asked me countless times for a divorce so I don't feel like it's my fault. I resisted at first but now that I've accepted it, I would like to move forward.


Spend the $50-75 on a process server and just have her served so you can get the process started. Sounds to me like she'll just keep dragging her feet as long as you'll let her.


----------



## timckelley

I didn’t know it was that cheap. I’m gonna see her tomorrow so I might mention this to her


----------



## Thom

Using a process server might well ratchet up (by several levels) the unpleasantness of this divorce.


----------



## Mikeguy

timckelley said:


> I didn't know it was that cheap. I'm gonna see her tomorrow so I might mention this to her


Or bring an adult friend with you to hand her a copy of the papers and have her served, and then the friend signing a proof of service form . . . .

All such a silly waste.


----------



## Qnapfan

DevdogAZ said:


> You missed the point. Most of us think that Tim's wife will never watch 99% of the stuff she is archiving. It's simply not possible. So she likely won't ever need to actually spend any of that money. It's just the knowledge that the shows are available to purchase and stream IF SHE EVER DECIDES IT'S TIME TO WATCH that will free her up to stop archiving. But given the massive amounts of things she already has saved and the fact that so much is available on Netflix and Amazon and Hulu, the likelihood that she'll ever actually end up purchasing any of these episodes is very remote.


<scratches head vigorously> ... after 60+ pages, I am ... intrigued, impressed, depressed and sobered ... all in one instant. My personal take on this ... let the wife have her obsession/quirk. Granted, there would be little logical support to archive these shows to the degree desired, but no one ever said that desires in general had to be logical. The question now becomes 2 fold as I see it - 1. Is this obsession damaging to the wife in any practical or 'real' way, and 2. What are the practical cost factors?

As for #1, while awkward and potentially irritating, the wifes desire is not life threatening and or catastrophically damaging .. in regards to #2 ... there seems to be a significant long term costing factor ... which depending on the budget in question can become an issue.

Now, my brain distills this down to a number of fundamentally interlocking goals ... Keep the wife happy, and keep the budget sane. If it were me in this situation, I think I would strive for happiness by creating a VERY ROBUST NAS Node for your wife ... I'd become the network admin (and the wife would be 'trained' to do what she could to contribute to the project). Thing is ... with technology advancing at the pace its going now ... storage is cheap like never before ... (I recently bought and shucked a NAS grade 10 TERABYTE drive for 170$ from Bestbuy (well actually if you factoring in reusing the decent DAS case and free USB drive ... something like 150$ for the drive!) Then buy either a Synology or Qnap 4/8 bay NAS to consolidate your data nodes. 80 raw Terabytes of Networked Storage towards the RAID config of your preference (possibly even 10G enabled)

... I think even your wife would have a hard time filling that up for quite some time.

Bottom line ... storage is cheap and replaceable ... can the same be said of your wife of a quarter century?


----------



## brianp6621

Qnapfan said:


> <scratches head vigorously> ... after 60+ pages, I am ... intrigued, impressed, depressed and sobered ... all in one instant. My personal take on this ... let the wife have her obsession/quirk. Granted, there would be little logical support to archive these shows to the degree desired, but no one ever said that desires in general had to be logical. The question now becomes 2 fold as I see it - 1. Is this obsession damaging to the wife in any practical or 'real' way, and 2. What are the practical cost factors?
> 
> As for #1, while awkward and potentially irritating, the wifes desire is not life threatening and or catastrophically damaging .. in regards to #2 ... there seems to be a significant long term costing factor ... which depending on the budget in question can become an issue.
> 
> Now, my brain distills this down to a number of fundamentally interlocking goals ... Keep the wife happy, and keep the budget sane. If it were me in this situation, I think I would strive for happiness by creating a VERY ROBUST NAS Node for your wife ... I'd become the network admin (and the wife would be 'trained' to do what she could to contribute to the project). Thing is ... with technology advancing at the pace its going now ... storage is cheap like never before ... (I recently bought and shucked a NAS grade 10 TERABYTE drive for 170$ from Bestbuy (well actually if you factoring in reusing the decent DAS case and free USB drive ... something like 150$ for the drive!) Then buy either a Synology or Qnap 4/8 bay NAS to consolidate your data nodes. 80 raw Terabytes of Networked Storage towards the RAID config of your preference (possibly even 10G enabled)
> 
> ... I think even your wife would have a hard time filling that up for quite some time.
> 
> Bottom line ... storage is cheap and replaceable ... can the same be said of your wife of a quarter century?


After 60+ pages did you miss the part where they're getting divorced?


----------



## shwru980r

timckelley said:


> Speaking of which she's not being very quick on this divorce thing. I filed the divorce with the courthouse and sent her a copy of the petition for divorce along with a waiver for being served, and she needs to sign and notarize that so I can return it to the court... it's been a couple weeks and she still hasn't signed it.
> 
> I think she's in no rush for this divorce even though she's the one who's been asking for it for years. She's starting to act like I'm the one that wants the divorce. Actually I believe we both do, but she may be giving other people the impression that I'm the homewrecker.
> 
> Honestly this would never have happened if it weren't for the fact that for year after year she's asked me countless times for a divorce so I don't feel like it's my fault. I resisted at first but now that I've accepted it, I would like to move forward.


Pack up all of her stuff and put it in the attic. If she asks, tell her all of her stuff is packed and stored in the attic and she can come and take it anytime she wants to. This way, you're not taking legal action against her and you're not putting her stuff on the street. But at the same time, you're letting her know that it's not your responsibility anymore but you will store it for her until she is ready to come and get it.


----------



## Qnapfan

brianp6621 said:


> After 60+ pages did you miss the part where they're getting divorced?


Hahahahaha ... it figures, reading from my phone (and I am thinking, due to the small size) actually missed the last 3-4 pages. My bad ... I actually did miss the 'who dunnit ending' of the murder mystery. Okay, I think I will crawl away in shame now....  Doh!

... and a heartfelt apology to the original poster ... I did not mean to seem callous or contemptuous of your situation. Gomen Kudasai.


----------



## timckelley

Here's a indirect update that has to do with my TiVos.

For years I've been wanting to cut the cord but my wife always wants to hang onto all these cable channels that I don't care so much about. She moved out a few months ago (we're separated working on a divorce) and I've been procrastinating because I've had some problems with my antenna... One or two channels usually come in but sometimes they don't.

Well it's fixed now and all my OTA channels are crystal clear, and I've been paying more than $150 per month for cable plus Internet. I'm now ready to drop my service to Internet only, and continue to enjoy my TiVo bolt for my OTA programming.

She reminded me today that her two TiVos are still in the house and still recording c able programming, and she wants to know if I can delay cutting the cord until May... I guess some seasons might be ending then.

She also reminded me that we're still married. This cutting cord conversation has come up many times before and she always asks can we wait till next May.

I kind of feel like since I'm the only one who lives here that I should be the decider of the services in my house... i'm kind of tempted to cut the cord behind her back. What is she going to do; divorce me over it?


----------



## Thom

timckelley said:


> Here's a indirect update that has to do with my TiVos.
> 
> For years I've been wanting to cut the cord but my wife always wants to hang onto all these cable channels that I don't care so much about. She moved out a few months ago (we're separated working on a divorce) and I've been procrastinating because I've had some problems with my antenna... One or two channels usually come in but sometimes they don't.
> 
> Well it's fixed now and all my OTA channels are crystal clear, and I've been paying more than $150 per month for cable plus Internet. I'm now ready to drop my service to Internet only, and continue to enjoy my TiVo bolt for my OTA programming.
> 
> She reminded me today that her two TiVos are still in the house and still recording c able programming, and she wants to know if I can delay cutting the cord until May... I guess some seasons might be ending then.
> 
> She also reminded me that we're still married. This cutting cord conversation has come up many times before and she always asks can we wait till next May.
> 
> I kind of feel like since I'm the only one who lives here that I should be the decider of the services in my house... i'm kind of tempted to cut the cord behind her back. What is she going to do; divorce me over it?


What's she going to do? Get mad and actively try to frack with you before, during, and after the divorce.

Move the TiVos and NAS to her home, even if it means buying another TiVo and NAS for yourself.

EDIT TO ADD: You could wait until May provided she is willing for you to move her TiVos and the NAS with her shows once May arrives. That way you've been a nice guy for a couple of months (keeps divorce amicable) and this minor TiVo headache is now gone. Don't get roped in to being her onsite TiVo/NAS tech support.


----------



## Qnapfan

timckelley said:


> Here's a indirect update that has to do with my TiVos.
> 
> For years I've been wanting to cut the cord but my wife always wants to hang onto all these cable channels that I don't care so much about. She moved out a few months ago (we're separated working on a divorce) and I've been procrastinating because I've had some problems with my antenna... One or two channels usually come in but sometimes they don't.
> 
> Well it's fixed now and all my OTA channels are crystal clear, and I've been paying more than $150 per month for cable plus Internet. I'm now ready to drop my service to Internet only, and continue to enjoy my TiVo bolt for my OTA programming.
> 
> She reminded me today that her two TiVos are still in the house and still recording c able programming, and she wants to know if I can delay cutting the cord until May... I guess some seasons might be ending then.
> 
> She also reminded me that we're still married. This cutting cord conversation has come up many times before and she always asks can we wait till next May.
> 
> I kind of feel like since I'm the only one who lives here that I should be the decider of the services in my house... i'm kind of tempted to cut the cord behind her back. What is she going to do; divorce me over it?


Nearly speechless (nearly hahahaha) ... Anyhow, the situation just boggles the mind ... I would think that this request would be an ... expedient window to actively explore with your (for the present) wife ... the reality of the situation and thus the practical option(s) - primary of which is to literally take possesion of 'her' tivo boxes along with the associated services that she so dearly wants to maintain.

I would think that the time spent doing this physical transfer would go a long way towards smoothing over one of the major sticking points (that started this whole thing) ... not to mention, it just may stop the ongoing 'slow bleed' over the contested Tivo/Services/Obligations ...


----------



## timckelley

Well she's still living in her mother's house (I'm guessing maybe 1500 ft²), and I get the impression her mother doesn't want her moving a bunch of equipment in there. I still think a TiVo doesn't take that much space though. I don't know when she's going to get around to upgrading to a bigger house, but that's kind of another story. (To elaborate, I just recently heard her saying she'd like to get that done before completing the divorce, but I told her she has that backwards... she'll get half the community money when the divorce is done, and she needs that $ to buy the bigger house, so to me, it's in her best interest to complete the divorce).

But meawhile, it doesn't seem right that just because we're still legally married that I have to keep paying for cable TV. We're separated, and this house is for practical purposes mine, and she lives elsewhere.


----------



## Thom

timckelley said:


> Well she's still living in her mother's house (I'm guessing maybe 1500 ft²), and I get the impression her mother doesn't want her moving a bunch of equipment in there. I still think a TiVo doesn't take that much space though. I don't know when she's going to get around to upgrading to a bigger house, but that's kind of another story. (To elaborate, I just recently heard her saying she'd like to get that done before completing the divorce, but I told her she has that backwards... she'll get half the community money when the divorce is done, and she needs that $ to buy the bigger house, so to me, it's in her best interest to complete the divorce).
> 
> But meawhile, it doesn't seem right that just because we're still legally married that I have to keep paying for cable TV. We're separated, and this house is for practical purposes mine, and she lives elsewhere.


Tell her you are cancelling your cable TV after May. You're still a nice guy for letting her finish up her season. If she brings up what to do about next season, well, you're not restarting your cable TV. So she will have to have made other arrangements.


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## Mikeguy

I guess that there are relationship and divorce reasons to keep on recording her shows for her for 3 more months, and for paying for cable (or will she be reimbursing that?  ) to do so, but this just sounds cray-cray. My immediate thought was to drop her an email and ask her when she will be around for you to drop off her 2 TiVo boxes and the NAS--that all is her life and responsibility.* And if she has issues with her mother, that's something she needs to deal with as well--I hear that there are these things called apartments and rentals. 

* If there's a cable hook-up in her bedroom in her mother's house, it's all that much easier, presumably without an issue for mom.


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## Fofer

Cut. The. Cord.

Literally!

(and figuratively)


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## DevdogAZ

Tell her if she has shows she wants to record, you'd be happy to bring the TiVos to her house and set them up. But you should not be required to keep recording things for her. 

Besides, I'll bet if you cut the cord and just didn't tell her, by the time you moved the TiVos to her house, she'd never even know that the last couple months of shows were not recorded. Based on what you've told us in this thread, she's thousands of hours behind on the shows she records and missing a couple episodes here will probably never even get on her radar, because she'll never actually catch up on any of it.


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## timckelley

I think it seems kind of stupid for me not to cut the cord when the only person who wants to see cable TV doesn’t live here and has a cable signal in the house she lives in. I guess I’m going to pitch the idea of moving her TiVo to her mother’s house. It not only would save money but probably give her more access to her own TiVo. She comes to my house maybe two or three times a week to shuttle her belongings back-and-forth and while she’s here she maintains her shows on her TiVos. She mostly only has time to manage her season passes and to do list and not actually watch her shows. (Or I assume she’s not in there watching them because she’s not here that long.) I think with her TiVo over at her mother’s house she could actually watch it.

I do think her mother resists the idea of letting her move her TiVo into her house, but there is a cable signal I’m pretty sure in the bedrooms and I think she could move it there without interfering with her mother’s TV. I know I mentioned this idea a long time ago to her; I’m not sure why it was shot down. but now that I’m ready to cut the cord I think that idea needs to be refloated.

To be honest she only has one guest bedroom in the house and it’s being used by my son... I could be wrong but my wife might be sleeping on the couch in the living room. But I get custody of him two days two nights and a few evenings per week, so I’m thinking she probably sleeps in the bedroom those two nights. Plus the whole time he’s at school she could be in there watching her TiVo(s) if it were there.


----------



## Qnapfan

timckelley said:


> Well she's still living in her mother's house (I'm guessing maybe 1500 ft²), and *I get the impression her mother doesn't want her moving a bunch of equipment in there. * I still think a TiVo doesn't take that much space though. I don't know when she's going to get around to upgrading to a bigger house, but that's kind of another story. (To elaborate, I just recently heard her saying she'd like to get that done before completing the divorce, but I told her she has that backwards... she'll get half the community money when the divorce is done, and she needs that $ to buy the bigger house, so to me, it's in her best interest to complete the divorce).
> 
> But meanwhile, it doesn't seem right that just because we're still legally married that I have to keep paying for cable TV. We're separated, and this house is for practical purposes mine, and she lives elsewhere.


How about this ... 'package' it for your wife ... pick out a reasonably priced vertical entertainment cabinet (minimal footprint) with good lockable wheels ... one that can nicely house her TIVO units, surge suppressor/UPS and some additional storage space for related items (small/medium flat screen on top?) ... done in a decidedly neutral color scheme/style in order to blend into her eventual new place?

You can think of the 3 months savings - as converted to a useful dual purpose gift in good faith to your soon to be ex-wife ... a gift that hopefully helps both parties by giving you some small financial closure to the ongoing 'corded' expense ... while simultaneously providing a reasonable compromise to your wife's request for extending the present status quo.


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## timckelley

I did suggest things to her today about this and she wants to talk about it more next week because next week is spring break, and she claims to be very busy this week. It always seems so hard to get her to agree to anything but I guess I can honor her small request to wait until next week. Now, if next week she says no dice I probably won’t like it very much.


----------



## Qnapfan

timckelley said:


> I did suggest things to her today about this and she wants to talk about it more next week because next week is spring break, and she claims to be very busy this week. It always seems so hard to get her to agree to anything but I guess I can honor her small request to wait until next week. Now, if next week she says no dice I probably won't like it very much.


... wow, its amazing that with her busy schedule, she can manage to watch all of those recorded shows ... oh wait.

Apologies if this remark seems rude ... but in all honesty, I simply can't seem to wrap my brain around the reasoning processes of your ... wife. Try as I might ... I am getting nothing but syntax error and white noise ...


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## ej42137

Don't be an idiot. Little stuff like this is the last thing you should be starting a fight about.


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## Fofer

ej42137 said:


> Don't be an idiot. Little stuff like this is the last thing you should be starting a fight about.


So you're saying he should just keep recording the shows for her? The ones she won't delete? What happens when she inevitably asks for an extension, in May? When does it end?


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## brianp6621

Fofer said:


> So you're saying he should just keep recording the shows for her? The ones she won't delete? What happens when she inevitably asks for an extension, in May? When does it end?


Absolutely he should. It ends when the divorce is final. Then he can tell her to pound sand. Until then he's just inviting trouble.


----------



## Fofer

brianp6621 said:


> Absolutely he should. It ends when the divorce is final. Then he can tell her to pound sand. Until then he's just inviting trouble.


Yeah, that sounds reasonable. :up:


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## timckelley

I’m at least going to give her till next week since she asked me to talk to her about it next week. If she asks for another extension past that, I will remind her that I can install her TiVo myself, and that it’s not like I’m asking her to take time out of her supposedly busy schedule.

But I suppose another point could come up. She’s probably going to want her TiVo to be on the same network as her NAS, so that she has ability to continue offloading shows. I can set that up easily enough but that Nas probably should not be in the bedroom but next to the router connected directly with ethernet.

And now I’m realizing another possible problem. If her TiVo goes in the bedroom with a wireless adapter, transferring shows to the Nas could be very time-consuming. There’s no ethernet port in the room where the TiVo probably will go. In my house all TiVos use ethernet connections not wireless.

It’ll probably be better whenever she buys a new house but I don’t wanna wait that long to cut my cable.

I can see her counter offering to finish offloading her shows and then move the TiVo to her house. More tedious work for me but I guess I can consider that if it means cutting the cable.

The other problem is that her Nas might only have about 40 hours of room if she’s lucky. She might have more shows that she wants offloaded. Maybe I’ll need to buy her another external hard drive.

I’ve already got a lot of work to do without having to deal with helping her with her TiVo so much. Hooking up the equipment isn’t so bad but moving all the shows is a little tedious, and she knows how to do it, but she’s asked me to take over the duty because the equipment is in my house and she’s usually not here.

If I could run an ethernet cable from her mother’s study to the guest bedroom that would solve it all, but I know her mother would not like seeing a cable stretch across the house like that... she really doesn’t like seeing a bunch of wires.


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## Qnapfan

timckelley said:


> I'm at least going to give her till next week since she asked me to talk to her about it next week. If she asks for another extension past that, I will remind her that I can install her TiVo myself, and that it's not like I'm asking her to take time out of her supposedly busy schedule.
> 
> But I suppose another point could come up. She's probably going to want her TiVo to be on the same network as her NAS, so that she has ability to continue offloading shows. I can set that up easily enough but that Nas probably should not be in the bedroom but next to the router connected directly with ethernet.
> 
> And now I'm realizing another possible problem. If her TiVo goes in the bedroom with a wireless adapter, transferring shows to the Nas could be very time-consuming. There's no ethernet port in the room where the TiVo probably will go. In my house all TiVos use ethernet connections not wireless.
> 
> It'll probably be better whenever she buys a new house but I don't wanna wait that long to cut my cable.
> 
> I can see her counter offering to finish offloading her shows and then move the TiVo to her house. More tedious work for me but I guess I can consider that if it means cutting the cable.
> 
> The other problem is that her Nas might only have about 40 hours of room if she's lucky. She might have more shows that she wants offloaded. Maybe I'll need to buy her another external hard drive.
> 
> I've already got a lot of work to do without having to deal with helping her with her TiVo so much. Hooking up the equipment isn't so bad but moving all the shows is a little tedious, and she knows how to do it, but she's asked me to take over the duty because the equipment is in my house and she's usually not here.
> 
> If I could run an ethernet cable from her mother's study to the guest bedroom that would solve it all, but I know her mother would not like seeing a cable stretch across the house like that... she really doesn't like seeing a bunch of wires.


How is the wiring in her mother's house? ... one possibility is ethernet over powerline. With decent wiring powerline adapters are more reliable than wifi, and the better units are in the Gigabit range - similar in performance to traditional 'wired' ethernet. Add the bonus of literally being just about plug and play - the units can then be taken with her as backup for network insufficiencies at her new place if needed. Lastly, they are fairly cheap given the convenience factor involved ... say 100 - 125$ give or take for a quality kit consisting of 2 units.


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## Fofer

timckelley said:


> Hooking up the equipment isn't so bad but moving all the shows is a little tedious, and she knows how to do it, but she's asked me to take over the duty because the equipment is in my house and she's usually not here.


My hunch is that this is why she doesn't want to move the equipment. Because even though you say she knows how to manage the recordings, she knows it is a tedious process, so she doesn't want to do it, and she knows that when the equipment is moved, you won't be expected to do it for her any longer, so the recording management will no longer happen.

Maybe *then* she'll start deleting recordings? Who knows. Not your problem.


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## PJO1966

Is it possible to automate the transferring of shows at all?


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## Qnapfan

PJO1966 said:


> Is it possible to automate the transferring of shows at all?


Personally, never tried that it to that degree ... but a friend who was more into automation once told me that for the older TIVOS in in particular, with folder access on the network, it was relatively easy to set up an automated backup protocol to a resident NAS ... but in that form it would still be proprietary TIVO ... in which case, you would need fairly robust macros linked to something like PYTV(sp) if you wanted video file compatability across the network.

Haha, the thought occurs ... set up her system to do the 'raw' port ... since she doesn't actually watch the shows, it won't matter ... and if she ever does (in theory, they could be processed at that point?). Grain of salt though, I've not personally tried this ... and the 'information' is dated ... not sure what the state is for file/folder access is nowadays.


----------



## timckelley

Update on the cable TV situation: Her TiVos are still at my house and out of niceness I honored her request to keep cable TV hooked up until the end of May, because that’s when a lot of seasons end.

About a week ago I thought I would call to schedule the cord cut that I’ve been wanting for years and I’ve never been allowed to do. Normally I would give her a heads up and tell her I’m making the phone call. But she has demonstrated time and again whenever I give her the heads up she says oh wait another month.

So I took matters into my hands and made the call without telling her.

A few days later the subject came up and she asked me to keep cable for another two months, that she would pay for those two months. I reminded her that until the divorce is final there is no “she pays” or “I pay” it’s “we pay” - it’s all community money. (She still has problems grasping that.) And that it’s too late anyway because I called and scheduled the cord cut. She was upset and said something about that my son’s favorite shows are not available over the Antenna (he spends weekends at my house). Really he doesn’t watch much TV, and would rather watch videos (especially YouTube) on his iPad anyway.

So she had to accept it, as of today my cord is at long last cut. :celebration: This will save me $80 per month.

To this day she is still getting me very often to back up her shows on to the file server. She’s remotely controlling her TiVo’s through the TiVo app on her iPad, and still actively recording stuff.

Now that cable TV is gone she said she would appreciate it a lot if I can connect the antenna to the two TiVos that do not currently have an antenna hook up.

Oh well; it costs me nothing so I’ll do it. I already have an attic antenna with the cable that leads down to the box on the outside of my house. All I have to do is open the box and connect the antenna cable to all the other cables via splitters. I already have an amplifier for the antenna so I think it can handle the splitting of the signal. I guess I’ll be doing that ASAP because there is no programming signal right now on those two TiVos. And then redo guided setup to make them point to the antenna.

I know she needs to move the TiVos to her house but she is still not allowing it. I’m getting close to finalizing the terms of the divorce, and I’m thinking of including a clause that includes a deadline for getting her stuff out of the house. I don’t see how anybody could blame me for not allowing an open ended storage situation. She still has a whole bunch of belongings here.


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## tenthplanet

Tivo's aside divorce is messy. Stay strong Tim. :handfist:


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## bkc56

timckelley said:


> So she had to accept it, as of today my cord is at long last cut. :celebration: This will save me $80 per month.


Congratulations on the milestone.


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## timckelley

By the way I think my bill had been something like $20 for Internet $145 for cable TV. Now it’s something like $65 for Internet and zero cable TV. My Internet was artificially low at $20 because of their bundling discount. If I don’t have cable TV there is no longer any bundling discount.

They tried very hard to get me to sign up for a more limited and cheaper cable TV package. They offered more than one alternative but I rejected them all and said I just want Internet.

They also offered mobile phone service but I rejected that too.


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## tommiet

After 35 years... Think I'll just keep my wife.


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## timckelley

By the way I just changed the guided setup on her Roamio to point to the antenna. Does anybody know if the season passes will automagically change themselves to point to the correct channel? The channel number on the cable line up is not the same as it is on the antenna lineup.

Or do I or my wife have to painstakingly go through every season pass and manually correct the channel number on them? She has a heap load of them.

The same question goes for her TiVo Premier.


----------



## randyb359

timckelley said:


> By the way I just changed the guided setup on her Roamio to point to the antenna. Does anybody know if the season passes will automagically change themselves to point to the correct channel? The channel number on the cable line up is not the same as it is on the antenna lineup.
> 
> Or do I or my wife have to painstakingly go through every season pass and manually correct the channel number on them? She has a heap load of them.
> 
> The same question goes for her TiVo Premier.


The season passes will automatically update the channels. I just switched from Comcast to Fios and all the Season Passes still work even though everything is on a different channel number.


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## timckelley

I made the mistake on the Roamio of removing the cable card after I had already re-done guided set up.

Now it says I need to redo guided set up again. To me that doesn’t make sense because its current set up is already antenna only, so I don’t know why it l cares that I removed the cable card.


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## timckelley

randyb359 said:


> The season passes will automatically update the channels. I just switched from Comcast to Fios and all the Season Passes still work even though everything is on a different channel number.


That sounds very nice.


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## timckelley

Darn, the season passes did not convert. That's going to be a lot of manual work because she has so many of them. She's texting me right now, asking about those season passes.


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## kpeters59

You ought to just need to edit them, probably if you had specific channels selected for the recordings.

-KP


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## Mikeguy

timckelley said:


> Darn, the season passes did not convert. That's going to be a lot of manual work because she has so many of them. She's texting me right now, asking about those season passes.


I guess that gives her a good reason to get the TiVo boxes over to her place, so that she can get it done.


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## laria

I think they will only convert if they are set up for all channels. I never tie mine to a specific channel and when Comcast renumbered a few years ago they all got recorded ok.


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## PJO1966

You should be able to make those changes online. It will be a lot quicker than doing it on the TiVo.


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## NorthAlabama

timckelley said:


> Darn, the season passes did not convert. That's going to be a lot of manual work because she has so many of them. She's texting me right now, asking about those season passes.


it sometimes takes a while, did you reboot after setting the guide to all channels and wait a day or so?


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## timckelley

NorthAlabama said:


> it sometimes takes a while, did you reboot after setting the guide to all channels and wait a day or so?


No; is rebooting advised?

By the way now that I'm splitting my antenna to three different TiVos, I'm seeing that the signal is still good quality, as I was hoping.


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## NorthAlabama

timckelley said:


> No; is rebooting advised?


the reboot will spark a connection and eventually indexing, which will help things along...you might want to force one or two connections before reboot, too.


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## DVR_Dave

laria said:


> I think they will only convert if they are set up for all channels. I never tie mine to a specific channel and when Comcast renumbered a few years ago they all got recorded ok.


My 1P are assigned to a specific channel and when I converted from Comcast to FiOS in Dec 2016, the 1P were automagically updated (Roamio Plus). Same when my parents went from FiOS to Comcast (TiVo HD).


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## laria

Ok I clearly thought wrong.


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## wizwor

This is a prolific thread! Sixteen pages and nearly 1400 posts since 2003! Today, this thread is sixteen years old! TimCKelley, the thread starter, himself has 31k posts! About five posts a day since joining in 2002. Where is Guinness?

Good luck with your cord cutting, Mr. Kelley. It's a great adventure for a lot of us. I started reading back this thread to see how long you had been considering installing an antenna. Not that long, really. First mention of cord cutting did not come until last November (though in March you said you had been considering it for years). It took me a lot longer to get around to it. In a sense, your success is more likely as you do not have to manage WAF.

Mr. Kelley, condolences on your impending divorce. Not just the divorce, but the life and circumstances that led to it. I was married for 27 years and have two boys. I cannot imagine living apart from them under any circumstances. If I read your words correctly, you have a son who would be around twenty. Hopefully, his relationships with both parents will not be strained by the divorce. (I know a guy who separated from his wife years ago. He continued to support her mother and daughter for years. Now the step daughter is on her own and his wife has moved in with him and her mother -- as a platonic roommate. Relationships are funny things.)

Reading this thread through, it seems divorce has been on your mind for a very long time. Divorce is mentioned (humorously) in the 18th post of the thread! In post 207 (again humorously) you said, "The key to saving a marriage is to own two TiVos." In post 293 (2005), you start talking about divorce seriously. Seems like this has been on your mind for a long time. Do yourself a favor -- kick the TiVos out of your home and get on with your life.

Congratulations to those who have been engaged in this thread. I've only ever heard of one thread that lived on nearly as long. It was a thread where people posted simply to keep the thread alive. This is organic.


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## eddyj

wizwor said:


> TimCKelley, the thread starter, himself has 31k posts!


Tim is a bit of a n00b, but we're OK with that.


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## wizwor

^^^ 66,354 / 17 = 3903 posts/year or 11 posts/day. Maybe you are single too?


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## eddyj

Nope. Wife, kids, dogs, fish...


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## DevdogAZ

Yep, definitely a n00b.

(Wait 'til he meets Smeek!)


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## timckelley

As another update, this divorce is still not complete, but it's getting very close. It's possible that in the next week or two, it will be done. Meanwhile, she is still remotely controlling her TiVos using her iPad. My Tivo has slowly migrated down to 70% full because she has nicely deleted some of her stuff.

Once she signs those papers, and the divorce is done, I'd like to think I can just wholly claim my TiVo. But our divorce agreement contains this clause, which when I think of it, indirectly involves the TiVos. 

I'm agreeing to store her stuff (and she has a heapload of stuff, which includes her TiVos as just a small item of it) in my house for a year (or maybe it's 1.5 years... I need to check) or until I decide to sell the house, whichever happens first. And to make selling easier, I put in a clause that once I have an agent under contract, she has to get her stuff out, because given the giant amount of clutter here, I think I need her stuff out before I can make the house look presentable for selling.

She also, I'm pretty sure, is motivated at long last to expedite the divorce because she's having trouble getting along with her mother, whom she lives with, and she can't afford to move out until she gets half our nestegg, which she can't get until the divorce is done. Much of the nestegg is in my name in retirement accounts. Until she finds her own place, she doesn't have room to store her stuff, which is why she wants me to store it in my house.

But here's a question I have as it relates to TiVos. I expect there to be a period of time post divorce that her TiVos will be in my house, and she'll want to control them remotely with her iPad, like she's been doing. Is there a way to divorce my TiVo from her ability to control it with her iPad? I could take it off the network, but I use apps on it, like Amazon Prime and youtube, so I want it to remain on the network so that it's connected to internet. Is there really a way for me to truly claim my TiVo as my own, while still allowing her iPad to access my network?

Or must my TiVo problems continue post-divorce?!?

(Notice how I've been keeping the discussion TiVo related, because a Coffee House rule here is that threads are required to be discussing TiVo issues.  )


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## Thom

I'm not sure, but I believe web control of TiVos involves the TiVo.com website. If true, changing your TiVo.com login password might end her remote web access.


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## timckelley

Thom said:


> I'm not sure, but I believe web control of TiVos involves the TiVo.com website. If true, changing your TiVo.com login password might end her remote web access.


Except I want her to still control her two TiVos, but I think your answer has made me realize what the solution probably is. Just like when you sell a lifetimed TiVo, the new owner is supposed to call TiVo and get the ownership transferred, I suspect my soon-to-be ex should get the ownership transferred to her name. And then she can get her own user name and password to TiVo.com, and set up her iPad to control her new TiVo.com account. It then could be smart of me to change my own password, which will by then be only controlling my single TiVo (Bolt). Once that's done, I would think she could no longer control my TiVo.

I can then go to town deleting everything of hers from it, including a bunch of season passes. But it would be polite for me to give her some notice that I'm dong this.... I think I will postpone this discussion with her until after she signs the divorce decree... I don't want any arguments to distract her from signing the paper.


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## timckelley

Actually I think the media access key is what allows the iPad to control it. I wonder if, when ownership changes to her, if she will automatically be assigned a new media access key different from my own. I hope so. And I assume that her knowledge of my media access key doesn't pose any jeapardy to my TiVo security, or I hope it doesn't...


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## DevdogAZ

I think allowing her to store her stuff at your house for a year or more is a VERY bad idea. I think it would be money well spent to take all her stuff, put it in a storage unit, pre-pay the rent for a year, and give the key to your wife. That way, she can't complain that she has nowhere to store her stuff, but you no longer have to deal with it and you don't have to be involved if she needs access to any of her stuff.


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## jrtroo

Create a separate account and move your box onto it.


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## ggieseke

Whoever gets a new account will get a new MAK, but be aware that any archived shows on a NAS or PC will have to be decrypted using the old MAK.


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## timckelley

ggieseke said:


> Whoever gets a new account will get a new MAK, but be aware that any archived shows on a NAS or PC will have to be decrypted using the old MAK.


Thank you for that valuable advice. That makes it sound like I should take jrtroo's advice and create a new account and move my box into it.

I don't care about any shows that are backed up on the NAS but my wife does care, as she has scads of that.

So it makes sense that she should keep the same MAK, and I should get a new MAK.


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## ggieseke

timckelley said:


> So it makes sense that she should keep the same MAK, and I should get a new MAK.


That makes the most sense to me since you have never talked about archiving your own shows, and the process of creating a new account and transferring your TiVos to it would be entirely under your control. You can usually transfer TiVos between accounts online without any problems, but it's worth a call to support to follow the official procedure. You give them the TSN of the TiVo that you're "selling", and they give you a code that the new owner can use to prove that they have the right to transfer ownership in case the online method doesn't work.


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## DVR_Dave

One thing to keep in mind if you set up a new account for yourself, you will most likely lose any loyalty benefits. It's been a while, but at one point, they had deals for 10+ year members.

Also, remove any of your non-joint credit cards from "her" TiVo account.


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## Mikeguy

DVR_Dave said:


> One thing to keep in mind if you set up a new account for yourself, you will most likely lose any loyalty benefits.


It would be interesting to hear the "divorce exception/explanation" for a loyalty benefit in a conversation with TiVo customer support.


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## shwru980r

timckelley said:


> Thank you for that valuable advice. That makes it sound like I should take jrtroo's advice and create a new account and move my box into it.
> 
> I don't care about any shows that are backed up on the NAS but my wife does care, as she has scads of that.
> 
> So it makes sense that she should keep the same MAK, and I should get a new MAK.


How are the Tivos apportioned in the divorce agreement?


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## timckelley

shwru980r said:


> How are the Tivos apportioned in the divorce agreement?


She gets the TiVo Premiere and the Roamio, while I get the Bolt. I'm certainly happy with that split because the Bolt all by itself has 4 tuners, and I do not hoard shows at all, so I should no space problems, once I can really divorce my TiVo from her.

Hmmmm.... I wonder what I'll say if, post-divorce, she still asks me to record something for her on my Bolt.


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## timckelley

Also, I think my Bolt only works with OTA, which is very fine because earlier this year I at long last cut the cord, and all my content for now, is a combination of antenna, Amazon Prime, and youtube, all of which are supported by the Bolt.


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## DVR_Dave

timckelley said:


> Hmmmm.... I wonder what I'll say if, post-divorce, she still asks me to record something for her on my Bolt.


Email her this link: Shop TiVo Products | Buy TiVo BOLT, Roamio, Mini and more.


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## timckelley

Four days ago my divorce became legal and final. I came back to this thread because I just now noticed that some shows have recently recorded on my TiVo that were programmed by my ex-wife!

Right now I’ve deleted all my own shows because I’ve watched them all but yet my TiVo is 79% full.

I suppose I could just wipe out all her stuff and there’s nothing she can do about it. I should explain that one of the conditions of the divorce decree, requires me to continue storing her belongings in my house for the next year and a half or when I sell the house, which ever comes first.

Also in the decree just to avoid arguments I gave her the right to claim anything in the house she wants as her own but with only very few exceptions and one of those exceptions is that the TiVo Bolt is spelled out as being my TiVo.

Isn’t it funny that of all the things that could be spelled out it was a TiVo that got spelled out?

She still seems upset and nervous about being able to survive without me so I don’t want to upset her anymore than I have to, but I really don’t have to tolerate having her stuff on my TiVo if I don’t want to. I’ll probably have a conversation with her soon about these things that are on my TiVo. It’s possible maybe she doesn’t care about these shows; I don’t know. But I guess she must still have season passes or to do items on my TiVo.


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## bkc56

Hard to believe it's been 16 years since this thread started. It's good that at least legal progress has been made, and it sounds like you have the right to do what you want with your Tivo.

I guess if you have the space, you don't need to clean it off immediately (unless you want that closure). But at some point, soonish, you'll want to delete any season passes that aren't yours, and some time after that, clear the disk too.


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## jrtroo

From personal experience, I would start putting all of that stuff you are storing into a single space and look to make the rest of the place yours (and marking it such so that there is no confusion in the future). I found painting a place can really change the look and feel of room/house. I would include the Tivo recordings in that as well.


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## Adam C.

Of all the things a person needs to worry about during a divorce, I find it hard to believe that recordings on a Tivo are one of them.


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## stile99

Adam C. said:


> Of all the things a person needs to worry about during a divorce, I find it hard to believe that recordings on a Tivo are one of them.


Not up on the story, are you?


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## Fofer

Adam C. said:


> Of all the things a person needs to worry about during a divorce, I find it hard to believe that recordings on a Tivo are one of them.


Pick one:

a) that you find it "hard to believe" says more about you than it does about Tim and his ex-wife

b) that you find it appropriate to post your judgment about his and/or her worries at this time says more about you than it does about Tim and his ex-wife

c) it's not about the "recordings on a TiVo."


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## mattyro7878

I am not married. I have had a few LTR's. I don't know the story but I can easily believe anything that can be told about the end of a relationship. It is mind boggling how bad or good things can end.


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## timckelley

I think one thing I had stacked against me is that statistically the rate of divorce among couples that have a special needs child is higher than in the general population.

Many times she has personally blamed me for my son‘s autism because many people think I myself am on the spectrum albeit the high functioning end of the spectrum. (This includes my uncle who is a doctor, as well is my mother.) In fact I couldn’t speak until I was five years old, after I received speech therapy.

And so my ex told me I should never have been willing to have children because of my genes. She also has regretted many times having a child but I never have had regrets, and I still don’t.


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## Fofer

timckelley said:


> And so my ex told me I should never have been willing to have children because of my genes. She also has regretted many times having a child but I never have had regrets, and I still don't.


That is an absolutely awful thing for her to have said to you. From where I'm sitting, I'd say you're much better off without her as your wife. And your son would probably be better off without her as his mother.


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## Mikeguy

timckelley said:


> I think one thing I had stacked against me is that statistically the rate of divorce among couples that have a special needs child is higher than in the general population.
> 
> Many times *she has personally blamed me for my son's autism* because many people think I myself am on the spectrum albeit the high functioning end of the spectrum. (This includes my uncle who is a doctor, as well is my mother.) In fact I couldn't speak until I was five years old, after I received speech therapy.
> 
> *And so my ex told me I should never have been willing to have children because of my genes.* She also has regretted many times having a child but I never have had regrets, and I still don't.


Alarm, Will Robinson, alarm. It must be nice to be her. And, thankfully, you are _you_. Find a nice reporter.


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## shwru980r

timckelley said:


> Four days ago my divorce became legal and final. I came back to this thread because I just now noticed that some shows have recently recorded on my TiVo that were programmed by my ex-wife!
> 
> Right now I've deleted all my own shows because I've watched them all but yet my TiVo is 79% full.
> 
> I suppose I could just wipe out all her stuff and there's nothing she can do about it. I should explain that one of the conditions of the divorce decree, requires me to continue storing her belongings in my house for the next year and a half or when I sell the house, which ever comes first.
> 
> Also in the decree just to avoid arguments I gave her the right to claim anything in the house she wants as her own but with only very few exceptions and one of those exceptions is that the TiVo Bolt is spelled out as being my TiVo.
> 
> Isn't it funny that of all the things that could be spelled out it was a TiVo that got spelled out?
> 
> She still seems upset and nervous about being able to survive without me so I don't want to upset her anymore than I have to, but I really don't have to tolerate having her stuff on my TiVo if I don't want to. I'll probably have a conversation with her soon about these things that are on my TiVo. It's possible maybe she doesn't care about these shows; I don't know. But I guess she must still have season passes or to do items on my TiVo.


You could change the season passes to Keep at Most 2 shows or anything less than Keep Until Delete.


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## Mikeguy

No need to foment upset and unrest . . . .


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## Fofer

No need to keep accumulating recordings for her, on his equipment, as negotiated. They're divorced.


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## Mikeguy

But there's a child and a related on-going relationship in the mix, not to mention a past relationship and an on-going contractual relationship. Mind you, I'm all for moving on (for both parties). But it's not my relationship.


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## timckelley

My son only watches the family room TiVo and my TiVo is not in that room. If she has recordings on there for him it really should not be on that TiVo.


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## Mikeguy

Totally apart from relationship issues, I'd check the obligations under the divorce contract--if there's an obligation to store things for her for a period of time, I could see that as covering TiVo recordings. But, depending on the wording, that doesn't necessarily include the obligation for _future _recordings to be made and stored.

I would kind of hope that this could be worked through consensually--e.g. something like, I'll keep on having my TiVo box record your shows for (3) months, giving you time to buy and set up your own TiVo box; and I'll keep storing your shows for 6 months, giving you time to transfer what you want to keep to your own box.


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## shwru980r

Mikeguy said:


> Totally apart from relationship issues, I'd check the obligations under the divorce contract--if there's an obligation to store things for her for a period of time, I could see that as covering TiVo recordings. But, depending on the wording, that doesn't necessarily include the obligation for _future _recordings to be made and stored.
> 
> I would kind of hope that this could be worked through consensually--e.g. something like, I'll keep on having my TiVo box record your shows for (3) months, giving you time to buy and set up your own TiVo box; and I'll keep storing your shows for 6 months, giving you time to transfer what you want to keep to your own box.


But the recordings are tied to the Tivo they are recorded on for cable, or the Tivo account if the shows are OTA. There is no practical way for the Ex to take possession of the shows that are being recorded. Also, my understanding of encrypted content is that the consumer owns or rents the media the content is stored on, not the content, and they own or rent the equipment that is licensed to decrypt the content for playback.

The shows that are being recorded are not the Ex's belongings because Tim owns the Tivo.


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## Mikeguy

shwru980r said:


> But the recordings are tied to the Tivo they are recorded on for cable, or the Tivo account if the shows are OTA. There is no practical way for the Ex to take possession of the shows that are being recorded. Also, my understanding of encrypted content is that the consumer owns or rents the media the content is stored on, not the content, and they own or rent the equipment that is licensed to decrypt the content for playback.
> 
> The shows that are being recorded are not the Ex's belongings because Tim owns the Tivo.


There are various means by which the recordings might be accessed or archived. Regardless, I'm simply suggesting to keep the terms of the divorce contract in mind, and to keep in mind that this relationship is going to continue indefinitely into the future, due to child issues--it would seem best, to me, to avoid poking the bear, if do-able.


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## shwru980r

Mikeguy said:


> There are various means by which the recordings might be accessed or archived. Regardless, I'm simply suggesting to keep the terms of the divorce contract in mind, and to keep in mind that this relationship is going to continue indefinitely into the future, due to child issues--it would seem best, to me, to avoid poking the bear, if do-able.


I see your point, but at the same time this creates false expectations. At some point, the agreement to store the EX's belongings will end and the belongings will be turned over to the EX. There is no way to turn over the recordings unless Tim gives her the Tivo that contains the recordings.


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## Mikeguy

shwru980r said:


> I see your point, but at the same time this creates false expectations. At some point, the agreement to store the EX's belongings will end and the belongings will be turned over to the EX. There is no way to turn over the recordings unless Tim gives her the Tivo that contains the recordings.


Yeah, from what I've read previously, I envision that this is going to be a landmine come-what-may. I'd be inclined, if it was me, to discuss with the ex that the recordings are going to be deleted (at the end of the 1-1/2 year period?) but then offer to "sell" the Bolt box to the ex for the cost of a replacement box (with Lifetime subscription) for me.


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## Polcamilla

Best of luck in finding an awesome realtor who will treat you well and help you spectacularly sell your home (and find a new one that can be YOURS and your son's).


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## Fofer

-bump-

I'm on Channels DVR now and it's very flexible software. I've been using it with a 10TB drive for a year now. Very happy with it. Black Friday sales got me looking into expanding its storage though. Maybe another 12 TB? I can keep adding drives as the library grows, even if nobody deletes anything. Even if everybody keeps importing more content. This platform allows for unlimited local storage, without all the work.

Anyway, this realization made me recall this classic thread. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!


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