# WHY Spend Money on a Fire Stick?



## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

I hope this does not turn into a nasty debate - I really just want some simple answers and ideas to try and understand something that does not make sense to me.

I see constant references to these things in various forums; I have looked at the details for these devices on Amazon, and I just do not get it. Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a pointless device like this?

BEFORE you respond, PLEASE do not mention "voice" in any way - I absolutely do NOT NOT NOT ever want to talk to my TV or any computer. Period. And I will NOT knowingly have an open mic in my house. Maybe you want voice interaction, but for me, that is just a huge reason why I would NOT want it.

So with that off the table, what could this device offer that I do not already have with a Bolt or the built-in apps on my Samsung 4K TV?


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

I have one and a few things. First is portabilituy - I take my fire stick with me on trips and plug it in where I am and can use it on the go. Second is app updates. Often smart TV apps are not updated as often as apps on firetv, appletv, or roku so you may get an updated or better version of the app. The final is app selection. i have a nice samsung smart TV but there are some apps available on fire stick which are not on samsung. Playstation Vue which I use for my TV watching is the big one. Now I often use my PS4 fo that over firestick but it isn't an option on my smart TV. Firestick is general has a lot more apps available then most smart TVs. 

So it is far from useless. My smart TV also has a firestick plugged in. I do 90% of stuff off the smart TV but the other 10% of apps that are not on there are where the firestick is very nice to have. 

One thing that is pretty common is that people load Kodi on the firestick to be used to stream from some less then legal sites.


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

V7Goose said:


> ...Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a pointless device like this?...


The bottom line for me would be if there is a certain service that the Fire Stick can get that your other devices can't. I haven't been following such things super closely lately, but when I went with DirectTV Now, my Tivo couldn't get it and I don't have a Smart TV.

On other forums, a couple of years back, we had similar discussions regarding Blu Ray disc players and Roku, etc. I have a Blu Ray disc player. It has streaming apps, but not nearly as many as streaming devices.

I would also add, too, that the streaming apps on my slightly dated Blu Ray player are slow to load. Dedicated steamers are faster.

I would also suggest to you that occasionally there are less common reasons that many, perhaps most, would never dream of. For example, I run my Roku 3 through my Slingboxes. When I want to listen to something, and don't want or need the video, I do it via my Slingbox PRO-HD or my Slingbox 500. It uses much less data in the AO (Audio Only) mode and much less battery power to not display video. While that is probably not an issue to most people, if you are listening on your smartphone and don't want to use all of your phone battery, it is huge.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

and thinkig about it, I don't think CBSAA (which I use to watch Star Trek) is on my smart TV either. For last season of discovery I think I had to use my firestick or ps4


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## The Merg (Dec 2, 2007)

You make the point about the voice option, but your question is “Why purchase the FireStick?” For many people, voice is a large part of it.

For myself, I got one when you could get the Tivo app for it. That allowed me to watch my shows wherever I was on a real TV as opposed to on my iPad or iPhone. Hopefully, that option will come back.

- Merg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

OK, so more apps that may not be in the TiVo or TV - that makes sense. But I do not own any game console, and I currently have no desire to use any app at all that is not already on my TiVo or TV. And when traveling, I have had no problems at all streaming from my Bolts at home, so I can't see anything there either. I have already cut the cord, and I am not going to pay the blood suckers for more unneeded services to stream different things.

So for me, still zero value. Thank you for your replies; at least I can now understand why some other people might want one.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

Then it doesn't sound like it is for you. and ps vue has nothing to do with gaming console. It is simply an OTT TV service but if you dont have or won't it that doesnt matter. 

So based on your comments, you should not get one. I love mine and have quite a few because I find them very useful.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Also some people hack them to get all sorts of "free" video. Basically like the boot leg cable TV boxes of old.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

V7Goose said:


> I hope this does not turn into a nasty debate - I really just want some simple answers and ideas to try and understand something that does not make sense to me.
> 
> I see constant references to these things in various forums; I have looked at the details for these devices on Amazon, and I just do not get it. Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a pointless device like this?
> 
> ...


If you happen to have Amazon Prime, there are a host of tv series and movies available for free with the prime service. I started using it and found quite a few good original series and movies. Last NFL season, you could pretty easily get ALL of the NFL games without too much trouble, sadly not this season though, at least so far.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

fcfc2 said:


> If you happen to have Amazon Prime, there are a host of tv series and movies available for free with the prime service. I started using it and found quite a few good original series and movies. Last NFL season, you could pretty easily get ALL of the NFL games without too much trouble, sadly not this season though, at least so far.


How is that different than what is already on the TiVo? Are you trying to say that Amazon does not make all their Prime content available to their apps on the TV or TiVo?


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## gigaquad (Oct 25, 2004)

There's no reason to own one. Just forget it. 


BUT I totally agree that yelling at my Alexa is enough for me. The last thing I need to be doing is yelling at my TV. I just trained myself to remember that the CHARACTERS in my shows can't hear me. Why would I want a tv based Alexa that couldn't hear me either? Quiet for the win. 
PM sent, too.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

V7Goose said:


> How is that different than what is already on the TiVo? Are you trying to say that Amazon does not make all their Prime content available to their apps on the TV or TiVo?


"Last NFL season, you could pretty easily get ALL of the NFL games without too much trouble, sadly not this season though, at least so far."
in addition, the Firetv doesn't hang or freeze and generally works better all around.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

Kodi, Exodus and the availability of content from unauthorized sources.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

There are lots of apps and things available on firestick not available on smarttv or tivo. However, if you have no interest in those and your tv and tivo give you everything you want you shouldn't get one but it seems like the OP had already decided they didn't want one so not really sure the purpose of this thread.

If you are happy with the apps on your TV and tivo, then enjoy them and you don't need a firestick.


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## emfinlay (Sep 21, 2008)

The Amazon app on my Tivo is terrible. The interface on my FireTV is much better and you can customize the FireTV (install applications).


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## cthomp21 (Jul 15, 2007)

They're incredibly cheap ($35 or less), have a better/faster interface than TiVo/Smart TV, have better support/updates than TiVo/Smart TV, have access to a large library of apps as opposed to TiVo/Smart TV, are able to access "less than legal" streams with Kodi, and have features such as gaming (with an additional controller) or voice.

Whether or not the additional features are desirable/useful is really dependent on the individual.

That being said, I don't use one. But, I still think it's an excellent device for certain situations. The Fire TV Recast coming this November looks like it may be a viable Tivo OTA/Mini competitor when coupled with a few Fire TV's.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

V7Goose said:


> OK, so more apps that may not be in the TiVo or TV - that makes sense. But I do not own any game console, and I currently have no desire to use any app at all that is not already on my TiVo or TV. And when traveling, I have had no problems at all streaming from my Bolts at home, so I can't see anything there either. I have already cut the cord, and I am not going to pay the blood suckers for more unneeded services to stream different things.
> 
> So for me, still zero value. Thank you for your replies; at least I can now understand why some other people might want one.


When you travel, how do you get whatever you stream onto a TV if you have no streaming device (Fire Stick or otherwise)? Do you just carry a long HDMI cable with you? Fire TV used to be the only way to stream Tivo content to a TV outside of your home, so that's another reason a Tivo user would need one.

Also consider that the apps on the stick are superior to the same apps on Tivo. For example, on Prime Video, ffwd is blind on Tivo (just a time bar), but you get thumbnails of each frame on Fire TV similar to what you'd see on Netflix. Also, the Hulu app on Tivo is very out of date and has no profiles like the Fire TV version.

Unlike you, I don't have any smart TVs, so I need some streaming device. Since Fire Stick is often on sale for $20, and it can run ALL apps (DirecTV NOW, Sling TV, PS Vue, Youtube TV, Hulu TV, Kodi, etc.), it's a no-brainer.

Having said all that, I do absolutely despise the Fire TV interface. It's confusing and inefficient, a sea of thumbnails in nonsensical groupings all trying to push Amazon content first and foremost. Roku and Apple TV are much simpler and somewhat provider agnostic.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Fire stick offers better quality streaming services playback than TiVo Bolt. I had to turn off Dolby Digital on FS for smoother playback but experience no sound difference. Smart TVs work ok but I like how FS and its remote work better.


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

I find that apps load faster on my Fire TV Cube, except that Netflix loads faster on my Roamio Pro now. (This is recent.)


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

The Fire Stick has voice. I know you don't want to use it but there are millions who have arthritis and not having to use a remote all the time is a help. It is also quite fast overall, apps load reasonably fast. Also for me the Slingbox app is important and it's superb on the stick. Since the stick is so portable that is a big thing. There is a boatload of apps a Samsung TV or the Tivo does not have and it would be hard to take my 60" tv with me everywhere....
There are other reasons but it's a good device that's why I spent money to get it.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

People tell me I should get one for Amazon Prime Video because it works much better than the app my TiVo has. My TV isn't a SmartTV so my Bolt is the only way to get the Amazon stuff on my TV. I already have a Chromecast hooked up to the TV too. Don't really need another device. I just live with the crummy TiVo app


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## opus123 (Feb 14, 2005)

Fire TV also has both Firefox & Silk browsers for web surfing (albeit limited). You can access YouTube via either browser. When FireTV was introduced it was 5X better than any smart tv, blu-ray, or (then) TiVo app in speed and stream quality. I've been so content I never bothered to even open TiVo's apps since upgrading to Bolt so I can't compare current status (so my bad if it has a browser).

I've owned FTV1, FTV2, and now the Cube. I never talk to my TV for playback or channel switching, but I do use voice on Cube to turn on/off my TV and toggle back and forth between the FTV interface and TiVo ("switch to cable"). It learns your TV & AV Receiver during set-up, and after some bumps in the road corrected via software updates... works great for me. Very convenient when i'm late for work running out of the house and turn it all off via voice. I also use 'voice' to play music, which works very well as the Cube defaults to playing through your AV receiver/HT speakers (it switches AV & TV on when off).

I also own the AppleTV solely for Airplay mirroring my phone/mac (or a friend's iPhone) to the TV... which works great. Outside of Airplay, I find ATV inferior to FireTV in every way... especially the horrendous 'touch' remote. FTV's remote is very TiVo-like but lacks AV volume/power buttons. FTV's major down-side is it's interface dominated by Amazon content.


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## opus123 (Feb 14, 2005)

...and now i never forget/burn anything i'm re-heating in the oven while watching TV, because I now "set a timer" verbally.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

As it relates to the TiVo experience only: all the major apps (Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, etc.) are a far superior experience on the Fire TV to the poor experience many have with using a TiVo for those apps. I have 3 Smart TV's from Sony and Samsung and they are all ABYSMAL experiences for the major apps and all the other junk apps they have on them. The Smart TV's can be slow, don't get updates nearly as often or EVER at some point and can even be a worse experience than the poor experience on TiVo.

This goes back to the TiVo desire and marketing as the *"One Box" *years ago with the S4. Even pretty much from day one all the way back then, MANY TiVo users just found their Roku or Fire TV's to be far, superior to use to access nearly all the same apps that TiVo has. And it hasn't gotten much better over the years.

To be fair, my OP friend, Dish's Netflix and YouTube apps are also an inferior experience compared to the Roku and Fire TV (although the Neflix app experience on the Hopper 3 seems to be better than on TiVo). Devices that are dedicated and designed for STREAMING always seem to outperform DVR boxes that are great at being a DVR, but end up having apps perform as an afterthought.

Also, Roku and Fire TV get the necessary updates FIRST and QUICKLY, it seems, while TiVo and Dish get updates and refreshes and new UI at Netflix, etc. at the very slow Netflix timetable, like when Netflix is in the mood many MONTHS later.

Aside from the many other uses and sources of FREE video programming, TiVo (and Dish, and Comcast, etc.) DVR users get devices like a Fire TV because their TiVo DVR's don't really deliver as they should in regards to how the apps on the TiVo perform compared to how well--and hassle free--those same apps perform on a Roku or Fire TV device.

TiVo used to have a Fire TV app that allowed streaming from TiVo in your home or outside you home to a big HDTV for viewing, but that app has been put to death by TiVo. However, we hope that a replacement app may be available once TiVo finishes it Beta testing with users, some who are on this Forum. That would be an additional reason to use a Fire TV device: to watch TiVo content anywhere the Fire TV is connected to a nice BIG, HDTV.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

V7Goose said:


> *I hope this does not turn into a nasty debate* - I really just want some simple answers and ideas to try and understand something that does not make sense to me.
> 
> I see constant references to these things in various forums; I have looked at the details for these devices on Amazon, and I just do not get it. Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a *pointless device like this*?


Might want to word your questions more carefully if you want to avoid 'nasty debates'.



V7Goose said:


> BEFORE you respond, PLEASE do not mention "voice" in any way - I absolutely do NOT NOT NOT ever want to talk to my TV or any computer. Period. And I will NOT knowingly have an open mic in my house. Maybe you want voice interaction, but for me, that is just a huge reason why I would NOT want it.


It sounds like you understand at least one reason why these devices make sense to a lot of people. Even if you do NOT NOT NOT ever want to talk to your TV, others do like to use Alexa to control a television. When I am cooking, doing dishes, or am otherwise occupied, I like to do a lot of things with my voice. BTW, if you have a cell phone or laptop in your home, you have a potential 'open mic' in your home. In fact, your smart tv may have a mic. In our school district, the IT department located a stolen laptop by remotely turning on the camera/mic and listening to conversation to identify the thief. The school district got in more trouble for violating the thief's (and 'potentially' any family's using one of the loaner laptops) privacy than the thief did for stealing the laptop.



V7Goose said:


> So with that off the table, what could this device offer that I do not already have with a Bolt or the built-in apps on my Samsung 4K TV?


Only you know the answer to this. For the rest of us, the answer is pretty simple: an app that runs on this device is not available on the Bolt or the TV or does not work as well on the Bolt or the TV.

I suspect you will dismiss these examples and I have no idea what apps are available on your television or DVR, but there are a lot of apps on the Fire TV Stick (and Roku) that are not universally available...

Sling TV
Sony Vue
Pluto
PlayOn TV
Countless news apps
Countless special interest apps
Countless games (TiVo has no game controller AFAIK; does your TV?)
Countless educational apps
Countless spiritual apps
If you are sincerely interested, browse this list.


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## ScaleManJ (Oct 26, 2017)

Here’s a reason but not my primary one for having a fire stick

Better picture on my new 4K TV. I like the picture through my FS over the same (using Netflix for example) picture run through my Bolt.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

for me, if I were to buy one, it would be about portability. I sometimes travel for work. If that picked up, I'd consider getting one to leave in my bag so I can bring with me and not have to watch content at night on my phone or laptop. I was travelling with an Apple TV for a while and that was a major pain to get onto hotel networks. Now, I don't know if hotels would more readily allow a fire stick on the networks...probably would still necessitate a call......


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> People tell me I should get one for Amazon Prime Video because it works much better than the app my TiVo has. My TV isn't a SmartTV so my Bolt is the only way to get the Amazon stuff on my TV. I already have a Chromecast hooked up to the TV too. Don't really need another device. I just live with the crummy TiVo app


Hey the TiVo app works and if you are happy with it why change. Fire stick offers better quality streaming services playback than TiVo Bolt. I had to turn off Dolby Digital on FS for smoother playback but experience no sound difference. Smart TVs work ok but I like how FS and its remote work better.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Sparky1234 said:


> Hey the TiVo app works and if you are happy with it why change. Fire stick offers better quality streaming services playback than TiVo Bolt. I had to turn off Dolby Digital on FS for smoother playback but experience no sound difference. Smart TVs work ok but I like how FS and its remote work better.


Yeah.. That's about right. The Bolt "works". I think TiVo would be better if the OnePass worked properly for Amazon shows.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm personally a HUGE fan of Roku, and Roku is now my go-to device as my viewing has shifted away from DVR'ed linear TV on TiVo. TiVo's apps are lousy compared to Roku or FireTV, as they aren't updated nearly as often, and a lot of stuff just isn't available. I also started on a Premiere, which was a total dog performance wise for apps beyond normal DVR usage, so that left a bad taste in my mouth. Also, TiVo's remote mapping for apps makes no sense. Every app is different, and they never standardized anything, as the application developers, not TiVo seem to control the mapping.

I later moved to a 4k TV, and still had the Premiere and Roamio OTA, so my Roku Ultra filled the gap there. The TV's apps were garbage and crashed all the time (Samsung). I strongly prefer Roku because it's provider-neutral, and it will work with virtually any OTT PPV, OTT SVOD, Free, or Cable Anywhere service. If you like Amazon and their ecosystem, then get a FireTV. I think FireTV is a weaker product compared to Roku, but they have huge ecosystem tie-ins that are increasing every time they launch new devices. I wouldn't recommend anyone use TiVo as an app platform, although my roommates used to use one of my Minis for Netflix and Hulu because it was there on another TV, and it was passable.


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## Jeff Metzner (Sep 26, 2018)

There are certain apps that are available on the Fire Stick but not the Tivo. For example, if I want to watch Star Trek: Discovery on CBS All Access I can't do that on the Tivo.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

You know, reading through all the posts here and learning about all the varied reasons why people get value from the Fire TV platform does make me wonder: what will happen in a few weeks when Fire TV can also offer Tivo features (live tv/home recording) through Recast?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> You know, reading through all the posts here and learning about all the varied reasons why people get value from the Fire TV platform does make me wonder: what will happen in a few weeks when Fire TV can also offer Tivo features (live tv/home recording) through Recast?


I fully intend to replace my Tivos with Recast if I can live with its limitations. It adds great streaming capabilities that Tivo lacks, but it's missing some bells and whistles (commercial skip, more than 2 streams, cable card, expandable storage). Great for OTA-only cord cutters with basic requirements, not so much for serious Tivo users still on cable that save everything they record and rely on skip.


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## CaseyJ (Apr 26, 2017)

mdavej said:


> I fully intend to replace my Tivos with Recast if I can live with its limitations. It adds great streaming capabilities that Tivo lacks, but it's missing some bells and whistles (commercial skip, more than 2 streams, cable card, expandable storage). Great for OTA-only cord cutters with basic requirements, no so much for serious Tivo users still on cable that save everything they record and rely on skip.


I thought I read that the Recast is limited to 720P. That would be reason enough for me to not use it.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Yeah.. That's about right. The Bolt "works". I think TiVo would be better if the OnePass worked properly for Amazon shows.


Give Jeff a call and see what he can do about it.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I fully intend to replace my Tivos with Recast if I can live with its limitations. It adds great streaming capabilities that Tivo lacks, but it's missing some bells and whistles (commercial skip, more than 2 streams, cable card, expandable storage). Great for OTA-only cord cutters with basic requirements, not so much for serious Tivo users still on cable that save everything they record and rely on skip.


Everything on the market is compared to TiVo, just saying....


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Sparky1234 said:


> Everything on the market is compared to TiVo, just saying....


Sure, for DVR functions. They fail miserably at streaming apps, hence the reason for this thread and consideration of other devices like Recast. In today's media consumption environment, streaming is more important than ever. Just having outdated, crippled Netflix and Amazon apps won't cut it anymore. If Tivo can't adapt, they will ultimately become extinct, no matter how good their DVR is. Considering the current state of their guide data capabilities and their latest GUI, one could argue their DVR is actually getting worse.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

V7Goose said:


> I hope this does not turn into a nasty debate - I really just want some simple answers and ideas to try and understand something that does not make sense to me.
> 
> I see constant references to these things in various forums; I have looked at the details for these devices on Amazon, and I just do not get it. Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a pointless device like this?
> 
> ...


That's easy if you compare it to a modern TiVo. A modern TiVo does not have HDR. Yet my FireTv devices do. Plus the FireTv device will show me the encode playing from Amazon content. While many other Amazon apps, like from my ROkus, ATV 4K, or Roku TCL 6 Series UHDTv, do not.

And as far as the internal TV apps, that would depend on the TV. My FireTvs run circles around the UI of my Sony UHD TV. I would pick the FireTV over that any day. But then my FireTV is typically down at fourth or fifth of my list of streamers. I will mainly use it for Amazon content. But now that I have a DV TCL TV, and the FireTV does not, I'll need to use my ATV 4K or internal TV apps to access the Dolby Vision content from Amazon.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

V7Goose said:


> I hope this does not turn into a nasty debate - I really just want some simple answers and ideas to try and understand something that does not make sense to me.


As I see it, the only way that what you're asking about wouldn't make sense is if you believe every product out there that offers streaming content from various sources is !00% the same as everything else.

Why would anyone want XYZ when they already have ABC? Because XYZ resolves a deficiency (real or perceived) in ABC.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Yes. Unfortunately, no one device can do everything.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

mdavej said:


> Sure, for DVR functions. They fail miserably at streaming apps, hence the reason for this thread and consideration of other devices like Recast. In today's media consumption environment, streaming is more important than ever. Just having outdated, crippled Netflix and Amazon apps won't cut it anymore. If Tivo can't adapt, they will ultimately become extinct, no matter how good their DVR is. Considering the current state of their guide data capabilities and their latest GUI, one could argue their DVR is actually getting worse.


I see these sort of comments all the time but what exactly is outdated and crippled about the Tivo Netflix and Amazon apps? They seem perfectly fine to me. I'm running them on a Roamio and they work without any issues. The Netflix app has access to my profiles. What is it missing? I will admit that the Hulu app is somewhat outdated as it doesn't include access to Hulu profiles. That app does need updating. But Netflix and Amazon, what's wrong with them?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NYHeel said:


> I see these sort of comments all the time but what exactly is outdated and crippled about the Tivo Netflix and Amazon apps? They seem perfectly fine to me. I'm running them on a Roamio and they work without any issues. The Netflix app has access to my profiles. What is it missing? I will admit that the Hulu app is somewhat outdated as it doesn't include access to Hulu profiles. That app does need updating. But Netflix and Amazon, what's wrong with them?


I already posted the Amazon shortcomings in detail earlier in the thread. Netflix: NETWORK DROPS: Netflix and Amazon frequently looses network on BOLTS. , among other things.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Amazon is my primary store for media. Which is to say not only do I subscribe to Prime, but I buy movies and TV shows (700+ in my video library) through Amazon too, and I subscribe to Amazon Channels for HBO and CBSAA. I've owned FireTV devices since 2014, and also have owned Rokus since 2009. I still think the FireTV is the *best* way to watch Amazon content, and I'm in their media ecosystem every day.



jsmeeker said:


> People tell me I should get one for Amazon Prime Video because it works much better than the app my TiVo has. My TV isn't a SmartTV so my Bolt is the only way to get the Amazon stuff on my TV. I already have a Chromecast hooked up to the TV too. Don't really need another device. I just live with the crummy TiVo app


I agree that the TiVo Amazon app is crummy. _Still is crummy._ The last time I revisited Amazon on my Roamios, I thought how can anyone live with this unreliable FF and 30 sec skip w/Amazon media? And you don't have access to X-Ray metadata- where you can see IMDB cast info, trivia, scene/chapter markers and cross-index additional titles?








V7Goose said:


> I see constant references to these things in various forums; I have looked at the details for these devices on Amazon, and I just do not get it. Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a pointless device like this?


I find that FireTV's detractors

don't understand or want the X-Ray/IMDB metadata

would rather live with a crummy TiVo app
don't want nuisance of changing inputs on TV or AVR
simply don't use Amazon that much.



Jeff Metzner said:


> There are certain apps that are available on the Fire Stick but not the Tivo. For example, if I want to watch Star Trek: Discovery on CBS All Access I can't do that on the Tivo.


I subscribe to the CBS All Access Amazon Channel instead. (and you can access those channels on TiVo's Amazon app last time I checked) But I also subscribe to other apps like Hulu, Filmstruck, Funimation, and Netflix. And their FireTV apps are on par with the Web and Roku versions.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

aaronwt said:


> Yes. Unfortunately, no one device can do everything.


That's true, but, for antenna-first-cord-cutters, the Roamio comes closest -- and no one is in second. If you are an OTT-first-cord-cutter, TiVo is not so great as it cannot stream any of the OTT cable substitutes like Sling TV, DirecTV Now, and Sony Vue. That is why this conversation has to start with specifics of what OP wants to watch. This thread is kind of mental masturbation -- it feels good, but nothing will come of it.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Sparky1234 said:


> Give Jeff a call and see what he can do about it.


haha

He's got better stuff to work on for me. Like the Whole Foods thing


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Scooby Doo said:


> You know, reading through all the posts here and learning about all the varied reasons why people get value from the Fire TV platform does make me wonder: what will happen in a few weeks when Fire TV can also offer Tivo features (live tv/home recording) through Recast?


Nothing changes for me. The new Amazon box is OTA only. Not useful for a guy like me who has cable TV and has no intention of cutting it.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Nothing changes for me. The new Amazon box is OTA only. Not useful for a guy like me who has cable TV and has no intention of cutting it.


Good point. What do you think are the chances of Amazon making a CableCARD version of Recast?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

V7Goose said:


> Why in the world would anyone with a modern TiVo or Smart TV every want to spend money on what seems like a pointless device like this?


I love Tivo, but have plenty of things to complain about it.. one of them being that it takes FOREVER to launch Hulu, etc., on the Tivo. The newest Tivo I have is a Roamio Pro. (I don't want Hydra and I think I like the curved case EVEN LESS. I want a [email protected]$# rectangular solid I can STACK.)

Another thing being that the various apps don't have consistent Tivo UI... but if they launched quickly enough, I'd put up with that..

But just the ridiculously slow launch time is enough to make me switch to Apple TV (not my personally owned one) to e.g. use Hulu..

I actually did buy one of the Amazon devices of *some* kind.. when they were $20 for Prime members. Ended up being wasted money since IIRC this was even before Tivo added the other apps?? or maybe it was just before I had an Apple TV.

Heck, if the launch time (up until being fully usable) were maybe HALF of the time it is now, I'd probably use the Tivo one, even though that would _still_ be what I consider a ridiculously long wait.. Just to avoid switching inputs as much.

So basically -- I totally understand why people would buy them. Now, if my TV had the apps built in and they were reasonably usable/featureful/had decent transport controls.. I'd probably use those at least sometimes.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The real synergy comes from pairing a fire tv stick with a bare-bones LCD TV or an older TV that isn't a smart TV. Amazon also sells a sidecar remote to enable the fire tv remote to control the TV. You can also buy the first generation fire tv remote that doesn't have a microphone.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

wizwor said:


> That's true, but, for antenna-first-cord-cutters, the Roamio comes closest -- and no one is in second. If you are an OTT-first-cord-cutter, TiVo is not so great as it cannot stream any of the OTT cable substitutes like Sling TV, DirecTV Now, and Sony Vue. That is why this conversation has to start with specifics of what OP wants to watch. This thread is kind of mental masturbation -- it feels good, but nothing will come of it.


The Roamio is a crappy streaming device. I don't think that the Recast will get TiVo users to jump ship, but it could be just the ticket for people who are reluctant to cut the cord, and want some broadcast TV functionality, but mostly stream, which is where the whole market is going. This is a smart ecosystem play by Amazon. They don't seem to be afraid to integrate legacy systems into their world, like with the phone adapter for Echo, which is genius.

What I don't like about Recast is that it's locked into the FireTV ecosystem, which is what Amazon wants. In my mind, I want to have a Roku or AppleTV, as Roku is service-agnostic, and Apple TV is fairly close to agnostic, even though it's obviously the native device for iTunes. Meanwhile, the FireTV is very closely linked into Amazon's content, and the interface doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a result. I really want to give the new Apple TV a try, but I have little interest in going back to the FireTV (I had a stick for a while, I barely ever used it).



Scooby Doo said:


> Good point. What do you think are the chances of Amazon making a CableCARD version of Recast?


A number very near zero that isn't zero. CableCard is basically dead, it's a support disaster, and it's not the market Amazon is targeting.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Bigg said:


> The Roamio is a crappy streaming device.


While certainly at the bottom of the list of streamers, the Roamio does it all competently. Netflix, Prime, Plex, and an OTA DVR using a single remote control that did not cost $200 was all a lot of us wanted not too long ago. When TiVo started selling the Roamio at $300 and $200 -- well that is a single box that can be your only box, as far as I am concerned.



Bigg said:


> I don't think that the Recast will get TiVo users to jump ship, but it could be just the ticket for people who are reluctant to cut the cord, and want some broadcast TV functionality, but mostly stream, which is where the whole market is going. This is a smart ecosystem play by Amazon. They don't seem to be afraid to integrate legacy systems into their world, like with the phone adapter for Echo, which is genius.


I think the Recast will do well in the cities. Amazon can bundle a stick, a recast, and a mudflap antenna for $299.99 and help anyone give OTA a go. The Recast makes it easy to mount an antenna on the right window. I see some Tablo users pre-ordering, but, as with the Simple TV DVR owners who jumped to Tablo, a lot of what makes them unhappy will be common to all whole house DVRs -- slow channel changes, limited tuners, etc. Except for the stream to Amazon Echo Show, I think the Tablo is a better option.



Bigg said:


> What I don't like about Recast is that it's locked into the FireTV ecosystem, which is what Amazon wants. In my mind, I want to have a Roku or AppleTV, as Roku is service-agnostic, and Apple TV is fairly close to agnostic, even though it's obviously the native device for iTunes. Meanwhile, the FireTV is very closely linked into Amazon's content, and the interface doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a result. I really want to give the new Apple TV a try, but I have little interest in going back to the FireTV (I had a stick for a while, I barely ever used it).


Exactly right!



Bigg said:


> A number very near zero that isn't zero. CableCard is basically dead, it's a support disaster, and it's not the market Amazon is targeting.


Cable is at risk in general. With 5G arriving, AT&T and Verizon are poised to penetrate the last mile deeply. Their costs will be lower with no wires to maintain. AT&T is already steeply discounting their entertainment products when bundled with cell service. Should be fun.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mattack said:


> I love Tivo, but have plenty of things to complain about it.. one of them being that it takes FOREVER to launch Hulu, etc., on the Tivo. The newest Tivo I have is a Roamio Pro.





mattack said:


> So basically -- I totally understand why people would buy them. Now, if my TV had the apps built in and they were reasonably usable/featureful/had decent transport controls.. I'd probably use those at least sometimes.


We have a Roamio Pro and use Netflix, Amazon Prime and Hulu on it and don't have an issue with the launch time. The one thing that I would like to see improved is trickplay on the Amazon Prime client though. It does seem to take it quite a long time to start playing again after FFD or RWD. The Netflix client is fine here as is the Hulu client.

Scott


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> The real synergy comes from pairing a fire tv stick with a bare-bones LCD TV or an older TV that isn't a smart TV. Amazon also sells a sidecar remote to enable the fire tv remote to control the TV. You can also buy the first generation fire tv remote that doesn't have a microphone.


Concur!!!


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> We have a Roamio Pro and use Netflix, Amazon Prime and Hulu on it and don't have an issue with the launch time. The one thing that I would like to see improved is trickplay on the Amazon Prime client though. It does seem to take it quite a long time to start playing again after FFD or RWD. The Netflix client is fine here as is the Hulu client.
> 
> Scott


It's works but is slower. Content does look better played through the Fire Stick too.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

wizwor said:


> While certainly at the bottom of the list of streamers, the Roamio does it all competently. Netflix, Prime, Plex, and an OTA DVR using a single remote control that did not cost $200 was all a lot of us wanted not too long ago. When TiVo started selling the Roamio at $300 and $200 -- well that is a single box that can be your only box, as far as I am concerned.
> 
> I think the Recast will do well in the cities. Amazon can bundle a stick, a recast, and a mudflap antenna for $299.99 and help anyone give OTA a go. The Recast makes it easy to mount an antenna on the right window. I see some Tablo users pre-ordering, but, as with the Simple TV DVR owners who jumped to Tablo, a lot of what makes them unhappy will be common to all whole house DVRs -- slow channel changes, limited tuners, etc. Except for the stream to Amazon Echo Show, I think the Tablo is a better option.
> 
> ...


The demise of cable is greatly exaggerated. It will be around for many year.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

Bigg said:


> What I don't like about Recast is that it's locked into the FireTV ecosystem


Agree. The one advantage of being part of a locked ecosystem (Amazon/Apple/ Google) is they have access to unlimited cash and really good developers, two things that Tivo has lacked.


Bigg said:


> A number very near zero that isn't zero. CableCard is basically dead, it's a support disaster, and it's not the market Amazon is targeting.


Agree. But watch your back, the torches are lit and the peasants with pitchforks are on their way! Much more likely to see a DVB-T version of Recast because the overseas opportunity for this type of thing is probably bigger than the US. Way underexploited by Tivo


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

wizwor said:


> Cable is at risk in general. With 5G arriving, AT&T and Verizon are poised to penetrate the last mile deeply. Their costs will be lower with no wires to maintain. AT&T is already steeply discounting their entertainment products when bundled with cell service. Should be fun.


100% agree


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

Sparky1234 said:


> The demise of cable is greatly exaggerated. It will be around for many year.


If you say so


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Everybody's mentioned what I would've said except one thing--maybe someday, TiVo will release another app for Fire Sticks that would let them work like Tivo Minis. There used to be an app that would let you watch tivo recordings on a Fire Stick, but Tivo abandoned it. Rumor has it they're working on something new, so maybe someday a Fire Stick could be a viable $35 option instead of a $175 Mini.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

wizwor said:


> While certainly at the bottom of the list of streamers, the Roamio does it all competently. Netflix, Prime, Plex, and an OTA DVR using a single remote control that did not cost $200 was all a lot of us wanted not too long ago. When TiVo started selling the Roamio at $300 and $200 -- well that is a single box that can be your only box, as far as I am concerned.


The thing is, it doesn't do everything. There are a lot of streaming services that it just doesn't work with, while virtually everything works on Roku, and it works well. I wouldn't give up my Roku for TiVo only, even setting aside that my Roamio can't do 4k like my Roku.



> I think the Recast will do well in the cities. Amazon can bundle a stick, a recast, and a mudflap antenna for $299.99 and help anyone give OTA a go. The Recast makes it easy to mount an antenna on the right window. I see some Tablo users pre-ordering, but, as with the Simple TV DVR owners who jumped to Tablo, a lot of what makes them unhappy will be common to all whole house DVRs -- slow channel changes, limited tuners, etc. Except for the stream to Amazon Echo Show, I think the Tablo is a better option.


Agreed. I think it will do better in cities where it's easier to set up, but I think it will do well outside the cities as well. I've seen quite a few newer style UHF-centric antennas popping up in the last few years in relatively rural/exurban areas. What is interesting to me is that the adoption of new (or what is old is new again) technology like solar panels and OTA antennas is driven by the middle of the middle class. People in low-income urban areas don't have the money or stability for solar panels, and seem to have DirecTV dishes everywhere, the wealthy neighborhoods have so much money that they just throw it at the power company and Comcast/Cox/Altice, but the middle has the money to invest or finance, but also has to care where their money is going.



> Cable is at risk in general. With 5G arriving, AT&T and Verizon are poised to penetrate the last mile deeply. Their costs will be lower with no wires to maintain. AT&T is already steeply discounting their entertainment products when bundled with cell service. Should be fun.


I'm skeptical that they will get out into more rural/exurban areas with 5G, however, it's still going to shake up the market a lot. AT&T has heavy duty bundling on DirecTV, fiber/VDSL, and wireless. I'm rather peeved that they dumped us off to the imbeciles at Frontier.

Cable is basically dying at this point. Even OTA isn't doing that well, but when you only have to invest maybe $500 and there are no monthly fees, the bar is a lot lower for how much content you need to get from it to make it worthwhile.

The content is leaving cable and going to streaming even faster than we thought, and new forms of entertainment, like YouTube channels are popping up like crazy. What I've finally learned is that it's not about replacing the same content from cable, it's about eyeball-hours. If the eyeball-hours are going towards new types of "TV", then they will go away from "traditional" TV, and the new TV on Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, etc, will just become "TV". Since I've cut the cord, I have a bigger backlog of TV to watch than I've ever had before, far larger than when I had a 2TB Premiere with cable.

It will take many years for cable to finally die, but it's already dying, it's just a matter of how long it can hold on before it's not worth it to the MSOs to even offer it. If people want linear channels, they will get streaming packages like DTVN, but many people will be fine without the linear channels.

The economics are ultimately in charge, and I think they are very clear. I think of TV today as coming from four sources, OTA, cable, Premiums, OTT SVOD. When 80-90% of your viewing is OTA, Premiums, and OTT SVOD, and 80-90% of your bill is coming from cable, it's pretty clear what most people are going to do. I think having the option of an OTA DVR combined with a streaming device like what Recast does really puts this is perspective for a lot of people.



Scooby Doo said:


> Agree. But watch your back, the torches are lit and the peasants with pitchforks are on their way! Much more likely to see a DVB-T version of Recast because the overseas opportunity for this type of thing is probably bigger than the US. Way underexploited by Tivo


Quite true as Amazon expands globally.


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## JackStraw (Oct 22, 2002)

Firestick is so much faster than the Roamio app it isn't even close.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I pretty much gave up on apps from my TiVos. Back in 2015, when the Bolt launched, they were ahead of everybody with UHD. But now they have been surpassed by everyone. I'll take a Roku, ATv, or FireTV over a TIvo any day for apps at this point. The only apps I might use on my TiVos now are Pandora and Plex(for only HD content). And that would only be because I dont want to switch to another device at that moment.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

oh.. another reason someone might want a FireStick over the the TiVo app

TiVo app doesn't support live streaming stuff (like Thursday Night Football)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

HerronScott said:


> We have a Roamio Pro and use Netflix, Amazon Prime and Hulu on it and don't have an issue with the launch time. The one thing that I would like to see improved is trickplay on the Amazon Prime client though. It does seem to take it quite a long time to start playing again after FFD or RWD. The Netflix client is fine here as is the Hulu client.
> 
> Scott


I guess you're way more patient than I am. It takes FOREVER to go from the Tivo now playing into actually being able to play a show in Hulu. Also, as I said, the UI isn't "tivo-ified". Even on the Apple TV, whose remote I am not a lover of, different things from VLC to Hulu all act very very similar/almost identical with regard to video transport..

Hell, even the horrible Comcast On Demand is way faster to get into, and that's a really bad interface too (AFAIK, it comes from the cable company and not from the Tivo itself).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> oh.. another reason someone might want a FireStick over the the TiVo app
> 
> TiVo app doesn't support live streaming stuff (like Thursday Night Football)


It supports something live minus a few seconds. I can go and select the live Thursday Night game that is on and it will start recording it. Thus allowing me to stream it right away.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Sparky1234 said:


> Everything on the market is compared to TiVo, just saying....


Well, by TiVo people they are. Most folks I know dont even realize that TiVo still exists. Besides mine I haven't seen one in the wild for a decade or more.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> It supports something live minus a few seconds. I can go and select the live Thursday Night game that is on and it will start recording it. Thus allowing me to stream it right away.


Do you mean recording it off of the Fox or whatever channel is carrying it?

I'm talking about using the Amazon App.

Yes, if you have a TiVo, you probably have access to Fox or whatever. But you won't have access to the "extras" that Amazon offers up like the alternate audio tracks.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> Amazon is my primary store for media. Which is to say not only do I subscribe to Prime, but I buy movies and TV shows (700+ in my video library) through Amazon too, and I subscribe to Amazon Channels for HBO and CBSAA. I've owned FireTV devices since 2014, and also have owned Rokus since 2009. I still think the FireTV is the *best* way to watch Amazon content, and I'm in their media ecosystem every day.
> 
> I agree that the TiVo Amazon app is crummy. _Still is crummy._ The last time I revisited Amazon on my Roamios, I thought how can anyone live with this unreliable FF and 30 sec skip w/Amazon media? And you don't have access to X-Ray metadata- where you can see IMDB cast info, trivia, scene/chapter markers and cross-index additional titles?
> 
> ...


You like having your tv & movies you purchased on one single line? When it comes to amazon purchased content, the Fire tv & sticks are the worst of ALL streamers. I want my tv shows separated from my movies. When I watch movies I watch movies, and when I watch tv shows I watch tv shows. To borrow from the Quiet Man.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I fully intend to replace my Tivos with Recast if I can live with its limitations. It adds great streaming capabilities that Tivo lacks, but it's missing some bells and whistles (commercial skip, more than 2 streams, cable card, expandable storage). Great for OTA-only cord cutters with basic requirements, not so much for serious Tivo users still on cable that save everything they record and rely on skip.


I'm still on cable and don't save stuff that we record (we watch and delete), but comskip and quick play alone are two features that we rely on almost every day. Plus the wife uses Comcast On Demand all the time.

The playback experience on a Tivo is still far superior to any streaming + OTA non-Tivo solution (i.e. recordings vs. streaming).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

Among all the comments on this thread, I have not seen anyone mention the Nvidia Shield for comparison purposes. So, just for the sake of completeness, I will add that I have only rarely used my Roamio Pro or "smart TV" (Sony XBR-65Z9D) for streaming since I got the Shield.

As others have mentioned, all streaming media devices have their limitations and drawbacks (e.g., the Shield does not *as yet* allow for Dolby Vision or Netflix Atmos audio), but I am highly satisfied with the speed and ease of operation of all functions on the Shield and it is light years ahead of the apps in the TV or the TiVo.

The only advantage the TiVo offers me now in the streaming department is access to Xfinity on Demand, which I find handy for the occasional extra feature after watching a show such as HBO's _In_secure or AMC's Better Call Saul, and for a short screening/preview of movies I might want to record based on my weekly review of upcoming programming via the guide.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I think the Recast comes at the perfect time. It's an ecosystem play by Amazon, and it's a clear recognition that cable is dead, streaming is the future, and OTA is a small, but critical part of the streaming ecosystem. It was a missing link for a lot of people to cut the cord or go all-in on Amazon's ecosystem, and now that link is there.

I do, however, hope that they come to their senses and allow the option of native MPEG-2 streaming as well as MPEG-4 streaming at 1080p60.



chiguy50 said:


> Among all the comments on this thread, I have not seen anyone mention the Nvidia Shield for comparison purposes. So, just for the sake of completeness, I will add that I have only rarely used my Roamio Pro or "smart TV" (Sony XBR-65Z9D) for streaming since I got the Shield.


The NVidia Shield is a niche product aimed at a niche market. The FireTV and Recast are aimed at the masses of people adopting Echo and other Amazon technologies. It's an ecosystem play.



> The only advantage the TiVo offers me now in the streaming department is access to Xfinity on Demand, which I find handy for the occasional extra feature after watching a show such as HBO's _In_secure or AMC's Better Call Saul, and for a short screening/preview of movies I might want to record based on my weekly review of upcoming programming via the guide.


Comcast's video quality is trash. Not only do the convert all the cable channels to 720p, they over-compress the snot out of them. We'll have to see what the Recast looks like, but Amazon really needs to get their stuff together on that one and allow it to stream at 1080p60 MPEG-4 or native MPEG-2. Hopefully that will come in a future software update.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

mattack said:


> Hell, even the horrible Comcast On Demand is way faster to get into, and that's a really bad interface too (AFAIK, it comes from the cable company and not from the Tivo itself).


I thought all of the apps on a Tivo were developed by the content providers and not Tivo.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Bigg said:


> I do, however, hope that they come to their senses and allow the option of native MPEG-2 streaming as well as MPEG-4 streaming at 1080p60.
> Amazon really needs to get their stuff together on that one and allow it to stream at 1080p60 MPEG-4 or native MPEG-2. Hopefully that will come in a future software update.


I'd bet that if this is popular and rolls out smoothly they will quickly improve it. They know lots of folks will hang back and wait to see what the reviews end up saying. Step 1 will be throw it out there and see how it stands up. Step 2 will be improve it and add features to bring in all those with doubts and concerns. They could even throw in the Fire Sticks for free. Content providers will love how this helps sell their Channels.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mschnebly said:


> I'd bet that if this is popular and rolls out smoothly they will quickly improve it. They know lots of folks will hang back and wait to see what the reviews end up saying. Step 1 will be throw it out there and see how it stands up. Step 2 will be improve it and add features to bring in all those with doubts and concerns. They could even throw in the Fire Sticks for free. Content providers will love how this helps sell their Channels.


Let's hope so! I'd hold out more hope for MPEG-4 1080p60 than native MPEG-2, but that would still be a huge improvement if they use a decent bitrate.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

shwru980r said:


> I thought all of the apps on a Tivo were developed by the content providers and not Tivo.


AFAIK, On Demand isn't an app.. It's somehow a UI you go into.. i.e. sort of like the very very very limited text UI you get when you try to navigate to a channel where the cablecard isn't authorized.

Though ironically, I *did* use the Tivo's Hulu over the weekend, because there was some kind of Hulu outage that only affected some clients.. and I think I got a tiny tiny tiny tiny bit more used to it. I still think it takes WAY too long.. If you just go into it once THEN stay in Hulu, then I guess it's almost tolerable (and was obviously useful to have as *an* interface -- I didn't try the old Amazon stick I got long ago).. But I switch back and forth (e.g. if you have a OP that points to Hulu episodes, and you go back out to delete that episode), and that's slow...


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

mattack said:


> AFAIK, On Demand isn't an app.. It's somehow a UI you go into.. i.e. sort of like the very very very limited text UI you get when you try to navigate to a channel where the cablecard isn't authorized.
> 
> Though ironically, I *did* use the Tivo's Hulu over the weekend, because there was some kind of Hulu outage that only affected some clients.. and I think I got a tiny tiny tiny tiny bit more used to it. I still think it takes WAY too long.. If you just go into it once THEN stay in Hulu, then I guess it's almost tolerable (and was obviously useful to have as *an* interface -- I didn't try the old Amazon stick I got long ago).. But I switch back and forth (e.g. if you have a OP that points to Hulu episodes, and you go back out to delete that episode), and that's slow...


Isn't that what apps are? A UI you go into to access their content?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mschnebly said:


> Isn't that what apps are? A UI you go into to access their content?


You're being pedantic, which I usually appreciate.

But AFAIK, on Tivos, the "apps" are actually using specific APIs into their "Tivo OS" (whatever it's really called) to provide UI and such.

I think (someone correct me) that On Demand was before ANY of the other apps.. Also, I don't remember, does On Demand show up in the separate apps menu?

But while I guess it doesn't SEEM different from the end user, I *THOUGHT* that the Comcast On Demand was basically the Tivo "talking to the Comcast server and pretending to be a cable box", rather than using *tivo provided* APIs to provide a DIFFERENT experience.

It's a fine line, but I do think there is still a difference.

It's kind of like when I am on a new WiFi network and get a capture page to log in -- that's being provided by them, not my end.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mattack said:


> I think (someone correct me) that On Demand was before ANY of the other apps.. Also, I don't remember, does On Demand show up in the separate apps menu?


No it wasn't before the other apps and yes it shows up in the apps menu. As far as I know, it is an app written by Comcast to support their On Demand (and Cox also has one for their On Demand).

Scott


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

So Amazon released the updated 4K fire TV stick at $49.99. Still toying with getting one for my work laptop bag for when I travel. I want to revisit my question from earlier to see if anyone can respond:

When I have travelled with an AppleTV, it would necessitate a call to the "hotel tech support" in order to get the AppleTV onto the hotel wifi network. Does anyone know if that is a peculiarity of the apple device or is it all portable devices (minus laptops)?

Thanks ahead of time for anyone that has info in this regards!

https://www.amazon.com/Stick-all-new-Remote-streaming-player/dp/B079QHML21/


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jlb said:


> So Amazon released the updated 4K fire TV stick at $49.99. Still toying with getting one for my work laptop bag for when I travel. I want to revisit my question from earlier to see if anyone can respond:
> 
> When I have travelled with an AppleTV, it would necessitate a call to the "hotel tech support" in order to get the AppleTV onto the hotel wifi network. Does anyone know if that is a peculiarity of the apple device or is it all portable devices (minus laptops)?
> 
> ...


So it's better than the $70 pendant? I see the $50 stick can handle Dolby Vision and HDR10+. I guess I'll need to pick up one next month. I'll wait to see what price they have around black Friday. They do let you save $10 if you pre-order two right now.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> So it's better than the $70 pendant? I see the $50 stick can handle Dolby Vision and HDR10+. I guess I'll need to pick up one next month. I'll wait to see what price they have around black Friday. They do let you save $10 if you pre-order two right now.


Agreed. I will prob wait until Black Friday.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

jlb said:


> When I have travelled with an AppleTV, it would necessitate a call to the "hotel tech support" in order to get the AppleTV onto the hotel wifi network. Does anyone know if that is a peculiarity of the apple device or is it all portable devices (minus laptops)?


The ability to easily connect to hotel wifi (due to web page login requirement) is the primary reason I travel with a Fire TV stick. As you know, this can be difficult or impossible on other streaming devices. In fact, before the Fire TV existed, I had to bring my own router with me when travelling just so I could connect other streaming devices.


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

jlb said:


> When I have travelled with an AppleTV, it would necessitate a call to the "hotel tech support" in order to get the AppleTV onto the hotel wifi network. Does anyone know if that is a peculiarity of the apple device or is it all portable devices (minus laptops)?
> 
> Thanks ahead of time for anyone that has info in this regards!


While a previous reply makes it sound like this is easier on a Fire TV, I was going to add that this sounds like a case for what gets termed a "travel router" that stands between you and the hotel network -- set up the stick once to connect to the travel router, and have the router connect to the hotel WiFi.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

ashipkowski said:


> While a previous reply makes it sound like this is easier on a Fire TV, I was going to add that this sounds like a case for what gets termed a "travel router" that stands between you and the hotel network -- set up the stick once to connect to the travel router, and have the router connect to the hotel WiFi.


Two different cases. Fire TV Stick can log into hotel wifi directly, sans travel router. I had to use travel router for devices other than the Fire TV. While a travel router is handy, it's another layer of complexity and takes time to set up.

Keep in mind this really only applies to domestic travel. Things get even more complicated with international travel. While a Fire TV Stick can still log in to hotel wifi in foreign countries, most of the streaming services no longer work. So I have to resort to using VPN or my Slingbox. Netflix won't work through a VPN, so Slingbox is a workaround for that.

Another option is to just carry a long HDMI cable with you. Then it's just a matter of connecting your laptop.

Unless I'm going to be at a particular destination for more than a week, I usually don't bother trying to stream anything.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> So it's better than the $70 pendant? I see the $50 stick can handle Dolby Vision and HDR10+. I guess I'll need to pick up one next month. I'll wait to see what price they have around black Friday. They do let you save $10 if you pre-order two right now.


Yep. It supports HDR10, Dolby Vision, HLG, HDR10+, and also Dolby Atmos. And it has an improved remote with power and volume buttons. Plus a faster processor with support for AC WiFi. Native 24p support. Bluetooth 5.0.

And here's the kicker -- still just $50! Pretty amazing. And they're bundling it with the Recast at a $30 discount.

All that said, I'm still not a fan of their UI. Although Amazon will soon release a new Prime Video app with a redesigned UI. I imagine that new look will also be implemented in the Fire TV UI too.

[Edit: corrected $20 to $30 discount]


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> All that said, I'm still not a fan of their UI. Although Amazon will soon release a new Prime Video app with a redesigned UI. I imagine that new look will also be implemented in the Fire TV UI too.


I have Echo Dots paired to my FireTV devices- and I'm using voice to bypass that UI more often than I thought I would. There are 700+ items in my video library- if I had to endlessly scroll through 100 to get to Boogie Nights, I'd be sick of the UI too.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Why can't they just make a box? Having the pendant or stick hanging off a short extension cable with a dongle for Ethernet hanging off of that is FUGLY, and then you still don't have IR for a universal remote. Roku and Apple TV are both nice boxes that sit under the TV, have Ethernet jacks, and take IR input.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Why can't they just make a box? Having the pendant or stick hanging off a short extension cable with a dongle for Ethernet hanging off of that is FUGLY, and then you still don't have IR for a universal remote. Roku and Apple TV are both nice boxes that sit under the TV, have Ethernet jacks, and take IR input.


I don't even see the point in the Ethernet dongle. If it's like the Pendant, I can get at least as fast speeds over Wireless AC as I can from the 100Mb/s connection. Both connections are just as rock solid.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Saturn_V said:


> I have Echo Dots paired to my FireTV devices- and I'm using voice to bypass that UI more often than I thought I would. There are 700+ items in my video library- if I had to endlessly scroll through 100 to get to Boogie Nights, I'd be sick of the UI too.


Will be interesting to see what the new UI looks like. I'm betting they'll implement some kind of universal queue like Watch Next in the TV app on Apple TV. But I'm also betting that the new Amazon UI will continue to have ads. Boo!

As for pairing Echo Dots -- I was just noticing earlier that it makes a lot more sense (to me, anyhow) to get this new 4K Fire TV Stick for $50 plus a new 3rd gen Echo Dot for $50 plus (if you need it) the Fire TV Ethernet Adapter for $15 (total of $115) than to get the Fire TV Cube for $120 (which has the Ethernet Adapter included), given that the Cube does not support Dolby Vision, HDR10+, HLG or Bluetooth 5.0. Although the Cube does have twice the storage if you need LOTS of apps. And maybe it has a bigger speaker with better sound than an Echo Dot? But it does appear that all of the Alexa smarts with the ability to control multiple AV components via IR is now included in the remote control that comes with the new stick, so you don't need the Cube for that.



Bigg said:


> Why can't they just make a box? Having the pendant or stick hanging off a short extension cable with a dongle for Ethernet hanging off of that is FUGLY, and then you still don't have IR for a universal remote. Roku and Apple TV are both nice boxes that sit under the TV, have Ethernet jacks, and take IR input.


Maybe the smaller stick form factor is cheaper to make? I do know that the stick format has been WAY more popular for Amazon, to the point that "Firestick" is part of the popular lexicon across the web. With this new stick, which is so powerful and feature-rich, it looks to me that Amazon is positioning it as their mainstream flagship device (with the Fire TV Cube as an upper-end device only for folks who, for whatever reasons, want an Echo built into their Fire TV device rather than being able to position it separately in the room).

I love my Apple TV 4K and am quite happy with what I spent on it (seeing as it came for "free" with a 4-month prepaid DirecTV Now subscription). But it's hard to see how Apple isn't going to keep losing ground in the living room when their 4K HDR streamer costs $180 while Amazon and Roku offer 4K HDR streamers (also with multi-function voice remotes) for only $50. I think the ad-free Apple UI is more elegant and useful, and playback controls are more consistent and better designed across apps than is the case with either Roku or Fire TV. But those kind of UX niceties are difficult to communicate convincingly to buyers and don't tend persuade the masses, who only tend to "check the boxes" across tech features while looking at the price. IMO, to make it worthwhile to buy an Apple TV 4K, you have to either insist on the very best streaming experience OR be someone who is very enmeshed in the Apple ecosystem (and not in the Amazon/Alexa ecosystem) in order to make it worthwhile for the extra money.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I have several Fire TV boxes with ethernet ports. I added IR to all of them with Ortek IR dongles. Did they stop making the box?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I have several Fire TV boxes with ethernet ports. I added IR to all of them with Ortek IR dongles. Did they stop making the box?


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the device simply known as "Fire TV" switched from being a box to being that weird square/diamond-shaped pendant thing, which sells for $70. But given that the new Fire TV Stick 4K has more features plus a faster quad-core processor (1.7 GHz vs. 1.5 GHz) and a better remote control, I have to think that they're discontinuing the Fire TV (pendant). Who would pay more for a less powerful dangling dongle?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I don't even see the point in the Ethernet dongle. If it's like the Pendant, I can get at least as fast speeds over Wireless AC as I can from the 100Mb/s connection. Both connections are just as rock solid.


I guess. I just like the option of having it wired without a dongle. We have too many darn dongles everywhere! It's not an issue for the FireTV, but things go really stupid when you started having to plug dongles into other dongles to do things.



NashGuy said:


> Maybe the smaller stick form factor is cheaper to make? I do know that the stick format has been WAY more popular for Amazon, to the point that "Firestick" is part of the popular lexicon across the web. With this new stick, which is so powerful and feature-rich, it looks to me that Amazon is positioning it as their mainstream flagship device (with the Fire TV Cube as an upper-end device only for folks who, for whatever reasons, want an Echo built into their Fire TV device rather than being able to position it separately in the room).


I feel like they didn't really even try that hard with the regular FireTV, and then gave up on it, whereas Roku went all-in on it. Maybe it just doesn't work with their target audience, since I don't really like the Amazon-centricity of the FireTV anyway, and I'm the one complaining about no IR or Ethernet.



mdavej said:


> I have several Fire TV boxes with ethernet ports. I added IR to all of them with Ortek IR dongles. Did they stop making the box?


With the current pendant, you have to plug a USB IR receiver into a dongle. I don't think you can do Ethernet at the same time.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

mdavej said:


> Two different cases. Fire TV Stick can log into hotel wifi directly, sans travel router. I had to use travel router for devices other than the Fire TV. While a travel router is handy, it's another layer of complexity and takes time to set up.
> 
> Keep in mind this really only applies to domestic travel. Things get even more complicated with international travel. While a Fire TV Stick can still log in to hotel wifi in foreign countries, most of the streaming services no longer work. So I have to resort to using VPN or my Slingbox. Netflix won't work through a VPN, so Slingbox is a workaround for that.
> 
> ...


A long hdmi cable is a great idea!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Bigg said:


> Why can't they just make a box? Having the pendant or stick hanging off a short extension cable with a dongle for Ethernet hanging off of that is FUGLY, and then you still don't have IR for a universal remote. Roku and Apple TV are both nice boxes that sit under the TV, have Ethernet jacks, and take IR input.


I think the new Fire TV Stick remote will have the ability to control the TV. For the older Fire TV Remotes, you can buy a sidecar device that attaches to the Fire TV Remote and allows you to control the TV with one remote.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> I think the new Fire TV Stick remote will have the ability to control the TV. For the older Fire TV Remotes, you can buy a sidecar device that attaches to the Fire TV Remote and allows you to control the TV with one remote.


I'm talking about the FireTV taking IR from a Logitech Harmony for a universal remote. It can be done, with a pair of dongles. ATV and Roku already have the hardware built-in.


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## opus123 (Feb 14, 2005)

Bigg said:


> I'm talking about the FireTV taking IR from a Logitech Harmony for a universal remote. It can be done, with a pair of dongles. ATV and Roku already have the hardware built-in.


The Fire TV Cube comes with an IR Blaster that transmits to items that might not accept HDMI control/commands... I'm not certain, but guess that could/should function 2-way to accept remote commands.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Just thinking out loud…. Couldn't TiVo come up with a TiVo Stick that had the TiVo UI and maybe be used to stream your recordings away from home. It could also have some of the most popular apps you could install to make it "The One" device to carry with you? The name alone would give it lots of news articles written for free advertisement. Get them back in the game.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

I think this is quite likely to happen. Tivo certainly needs a cheaper/easier option for 2nd TV sets, and all the better if it can stream out of home. I think their may be legal issues with an OTA box that can stream out of home.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

opus123 said:


> The Fire TV Cube comes with an IR Blaster that transmits to items that might not accept HDMI control/commands... I'm not certain, but guess that could/should function 2-way to accept remote commands.


I don't think that takes IR in, and it's still a cable/dongle of sorts.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Scooby Doo said:


> I think this is quite likely to happen. Tivo certainly needs a cheaper/easier option for 2nd TV sets, and all the better if it can stream out of home. I think their may be legal issues with an OTA box that can stream out of home.


What TiVo needs is apps so that you can stream from the Bolt OTA to FireTV, Roku, Chromecast, and Apple TV devices that people already have, negating the need for MoCA and additional Minis.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Bigg said:


> What TiVo needs is apps so that you can stream from the Bolt OTA to FireTV, Roku, Chromecast, and Apple TV devices that people already have, negating the need for MoCA and additional Minis.


OTA is usually (always?) MPEG-2. I think that most of those devices only play nice with H-264, which would require a complete transcode.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

Bigg said:


> What TiVo needs is apps so that you can stream from the Bolt OTA to FireTV, Roku, Chromecast, and Apple TV devices that people already have, negating the need for MoCA and additional Minis.


Would Amazon allow this now they have a competing DVR? Or Apple?


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

ggieseke said:


> OTA is usually (always?) MPEG-2. I think that most of those devices only play nice with H-264, which would require a complete transcode.


Sure, but that's what Tivo is already doing for out-of-home streaming. Already built in to Bolt but strangely missing from Bolt OTA


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Scooby Doo said:


> Sure, but that's what Tivo is already doing for out-of-home streaming. Already built in to Bolt but strangely missing from Bolt OTA


The Bolt OTA has the transcoders. They advertise streaming to phones and tablets.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

Bigg said:


> The Bolt OTA has the transcoders. They advertise streaming to phones and tablets.


You are right. Thanks for correcting me. I sadly have an early Roamio OTA that does not support streaming and did not realize they have now corrected this deficiency


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Scooby Doo said:


> You are right. Thanks for correcting me. I sadly have an early Roamio OTA that does not support streaming and did not realize they have now corrected this deficiency


Roamio and Roamio OTA do not have the transcoders period. IIRC, Roamio Plus and Pro did, but I know those are cable-only models. I wish much of the country still had reasonably priced and good quality QAM-based TV providers, but sadly only areas with Verizon FiOS have that at this point. Their TV isn't as good as it used to be, but it's still decent, and it's usually really cheap when bundled with internet, although like other providers they are charging a lot of extra fees too.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

All that being said, I love the clean and simplistic nature of OTA. No fees, no encryption, no CableCards, no packages, no stress. Similarly, with all this streaming content that's come along, there is so much to watch even without pay TV.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> What TiVo needs is apps so that you can stream from the Bolt OTA to FireTV, Roku, Chromecast, and Apple TV devices that people already have, negating the need for MoCA and additional Minis.


TiVoTed told us months ago, when they killed the TiVo Fire TV app that was in perpetual beta, that they were working on a new set of TiVo apps. Meanwhile, news surfaced at CES in Jan. that TiVo was building a next-gen platform for MSOs that would include TiVo apps for Apple TV, Fire TV, etc., allowing those retail boxes to act like Minis.

And finally, a couple weeks ago, Zatz confirmed that all this is heading where I had predicted months ago:

_TiVo's service provider IPTV endpoints are being reworked, expanded and, in talking to TiVo VP Ted Malone, they hope to release these Roku, Fire TV, and Apple TiVo "soft Mini" clients to retail TiVo owners in the first half of 2019. No fees._​
OK, to be fair, I didn't predict that TiVo would undercut sales of their own Mini hardware by offering their new app for FREE. I figured they'd charge _something_ to use the app. But then, that was my thinking months ago, before we learned that TiVo was exiting the hardware business. So I guess, come 2019, it'll be Arris's problem. Will there still be a market for the $180 Mini Vox (the full cost of an Apple TV 4K) when folks can just use a streaming box/stick costing as little as $30 to do pretty much the same thing (although without the benefit of a dedicated TiVo remote)? Although, assuming Arris still has to manufacture Minis for TiVo-using MSOs, maybe they won't care that the retail market for the same hardware shrivels up to next-to-nothing; if it's the same hardware, I guess they could afford to still dribble out enough Minis for sale at TiVo.com to satisfy retail users.



Scooby Doo said:


> Would Amazon allow this now they have a competing DVR? Or Apple?


I think so. Amazon Fire TV and Apple TV have, for years now, allowed Tablo and Plex, with their own OTA DVR solutions, to exist on their platforms. There would be a big stink if either company played the bully and disallowed those apps -- or a future TiVo app -- from working on their hardware, just because those apps competed to some extent with their own first-party solutions.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> TiVoTed told us months ago, when they killed the TiVo Fire TV app that was in perpetual beta, that they were working on a new set of TiVo apps. Meanwhile, news surfaced at CES in Jan. that TiVo was building a next-gen platform for MSOs that would include TiVo apps for Apple TV, Fire TV, etc., allowing those retail boxes to act like Minis.


Yeah, I saw the news on zatznotfunny after I posted that. It is good news, as TiVo desperately needs to get into the App game.

Now the price of the TiVo Stream will probably go way up since they don't make them anymore, at least if they offer this to Roamio users.  I have 3 Minis though, so I don't really care that much.



> Will there still be a market for the $180 Mini Vox (the full cost of an Apple TV 4K) when folks can just use a streaming box/stick costing as little as $30 to do pretty much the same thing (although without the benefit of a dedicated TiVo remote)? Although, assuming Arris still has to manufacture Minis for TiVo-using MSOs, maybe they won't care that the retail market for the same hardware shrivels up to next-to-nothing; if it's the same hardware, I guess they could afford to still dribble out enough Minis for sale at TiVo.com to satisfy retail users.


Yes. Enthusiasts and custom installers who rack these things up will both want hardware clients. Most customers will be fine with software clients. And like you say, they're the same thing as what the MSOs get, so it's not like they're making something just for the retail market.



> I think so. Amazon Fire TV and Apple TV have, for years now, allowed Tablo and Plex, with their own OTA DVR solutions, to exist on their platforms. There would be a big stink if either company played the bully and disallowed those apps -- or a future TiVo app -- from working on their hardware, just because those apps competed to some extent with their own first-party solutions.


Amazon will absolutely, 100% support the TiVo app. They want you to buy a Fire TV stick, they don't care what you use with it. They needed a cheap OTA DVR for the folks who aren't going to go out and buy a TiVo or Tablo TV, so they made Recast. Recast isn't the product, it's just a sample to get people hooked on the ecosystem.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Yes. Enthusiasts and custom installers who rack these things up will both want hardware clients. Most customers will be fine with software clients. And like you say, they're the same thing as what the MSOs get, so it's not like they're making something just for the retail market.


I agree, although I wonder how many "enthusiasts and custom installers" there will be for new TiVo hardware in 2019. I know TiVo continues to have its die-hard fans but I question how many are left.

And our assumption that Arris is making the same Mini box for MSOs as for retail may be incorrect. It looks like their Qi3 -- operating in "Mini mode" -- is what they deploy to MSOs in place of actual Minis. (The Qi3 can also operate as a standalone cable box.)

So Arris may, in fact, only be making the Mini for the retail market. In which case, it's hard to see how that product survives once TiVo offers a free, albeit inferior, alternative via apps. That said, I imagine there will still be enough used/refurbished Minis floating around to satisfy demand from those TiVo fans who insist on peanut remotes for their secondary TVs.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> And our assumption that Arris is making the same Mini box for MSOs as for retail may be incorrect. It looks like their Qi3 -- operating in "Mini mode" -- is what they deploy to MSOs in place of actual Minis. (The Qi3 can also operate as a standalone cable box.)


That Qi3 is a pretty interesting product. I wonder what the price to MSOs is?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> I agree, although I wonder how many "enthusiasts and custom installers" there will be for new TiVo hardware in 2019. I know TiVo continues to have its die-hard fans but I question how many are left.


There's an entire industry out there that mostly supplies custom installers, and a lot of companies that focus on that market, like Control4, Sonos, etc. I think the Bolt OTA can survive at retail, the rest of their lineup may end up being a Crutchfield/Amazon type of thing for enthusiasts, and then through distributors for custom installers. They really should make a rackmount TiVo for that market with a built-in PSU, full sized drive, lots of cooling, and built-in analog audio outputs. They've already got IP control and such.



> And our assumption that Arris is making the same Mini box for MSOs as for retail may be incorrect. It looks like their Qi3 -- operating in "Mini mode" -- is what they deploy to MSOs in place of actual Minis. (The Qi3 can also operate as a standalone cable box.)
> 
> So Arris may, in fact, only be making the Mini for the retail market. In which case, it's hard to see how that product survives once TiVo offers a free, albeit inferior, alternative via apps. That said, I imagine there will still be enough used/refurbished Minis floating around to satisfy demand from those TiVo fans who insist on peanut remotes for their secondary TVs.


The Qi3 sure looks like a TiVo Mini Vox with a slightly different case to me. If not, they could combine the two products into one set of hardware. I have 3 of the OG Minis. They are great little boxes, but as content has shifted away from pay tv and now away from OTA, they are more and more limited in their purpose.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> The only advantage the TiVo offers me now in the streaming department is access to Xfinity on Demand


BTW, although this is mostly a technical curiosity, the TiVo's version of Xfinity on Demand isn't streaming. Oh, sure, XoD is available via streaming (e.g., on a Roku); but that's not what the TiVo uses. Rather, it's a more "traditional" cable VoD system, where the TiVo communicates to Comcast servers over the Internet, but the actual video comes via a regular QAM channel. That's why it can (far too often) become impossible to play anything, even though the app seems to be working -- there are a limited number of VoD channels in a given area, and they get filled up.

At least this is my understanding.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> BTW, although this is mostly a technical curiosity, the TiVo's version of Xfinity on Demand isn't streaming. Oh, sure, XoD is available via streaming (e.g., on a Roku); but that's not what the TiVo uses. Rather, it's a more "traditional" cable VoD system, where the TiVo communicates to Comcast servers over the Internet, but the actual video comes via a regular QAM channel. That's why it can (far too often) become impossible to play anything, even though the app seems to be working -- there are a limited number of VoD channels in a given area, and they get filled up.
> 
> At least this is my understanding.


You're correct in how it works. I don't think Comcast has capacity issues in most areas, so my guess is that the interface between the TiVo box and the VOD server just sucks and is unreliable.


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## sockgap (Sep 20, 2006)

The Amazon and Netflix streaming support via the TiVo Mini is really buggy. Streams stutter, get stuck, or the Mini wilI freeze and need to be rebooted. I use a Fire device on that TV now for that stuff. I just use the Mini for watching shows hosted on the main TiVo, which works fine.


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## ADTDRIVER (Oct 8, 2018)

My Samsung 4K smart TV purchase in 2015 does not have many of the latest apps, and I"m unable to get them. A Roku or other device would open up more options. Looking at the Sling site, for example, their app would be available on a Samsung smart tv produced in the next year and later.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ADTDRIVER said:


> My Samsung 4K smart TV purchase in 2015 does not have many of the latest apps, and I"m unable to get them. A Roku or other device would open up more options. Looking at the Sling site, for example, their app would be available on a Samsung smart tv produced in the next year and later.


I just don't get why Samsung doesn't update its apps, at least on a yearly basis.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ADTDRIVER said:


> My Samsung 4K smart TV purchase in 2015 does not have many of the latest apps, and I"m unable to get them. A Roku or other device would open up more options. Looking at the Sling site, for example, their app would be available on a Samsung smart tv produced in the next year and later.


I have a 2015 JS850D and the apps are HORRENDOUS. I've never really used them much except to try them and realize that they suck. Then I started using Roku for everything, and it was a MUCH better experience.


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