# TiVo Coming To Roku?!



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

*Ooops - I meant to put this in the Coffee House! *

Dave and Digital Media Zone both have interesting articles about a TiVo Roku prototype that seems to have leaked during CES.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-01/tivo-coming-roku/

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2014/01/11/tivo-presents-network-dvr-concept-and-more-at-ces/


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Like Dave said this is probably not going to be available to stand alone users. It would cannibalize their Mini sales if they did that. Most likely it will be part of a package they sell to cable MSOs.

It is very cool though.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Like Dave said this is probably not going to be available to stand alone users. It would cannibalize their Mini sales if they did that. Most likely it will be part of a package they sell to cable MSOs.
> 
> It is very cool though.


I agree that is a risk - and Dave is probably correct.

But, if it really uses the Stream protocol as a driver, I see this as simply another access channel that wouldn't necessarily compete directly with the Mini. It just couldn't offer the breadth of functionality as Mini does.

If the solution required a service as suggested - it could be cheaper then the Mini, but as I said, not as functional.

On the other hand, the "why does it require a service" guys would blow a gasket!


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

It could be a $150 roku app.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dish is making a "virtual&#8221; Joey app that will run on an LG Smart TV that will require a service fee to use. So, as an MSO option, there is definitely a business model to follow. 

As a retail option? I would think it would be a harder sell depending on the cost. Cable customers are used to added fees on the bill without even looking - another $5.00 a month popping up barely raises an eyebrow for most of the unwashed masses...

But as a retail option, it is separate and more obvious. It would be very hard to describe the value proposition. 

It just feels like it should be free.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't think it'll really cannibalize Mini sales. The UI is not as robust and navigation via the Stream is not as good. Plus you'd have to buy a $130 Stream or a $400 Roamio Plus to be able to use it, TiVo is making money on it one way or the other.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think it'll really cannibalize Mini sales. The UI is not as robust and navigation via the Stream is not as good. Plus you'd have to buy a $130 Stream or a $400 Roamio Plus to be able to use it, TiVo is making money on it one way or the other.


Agree. This would be a great alternative for a wirelessly-connected TV especially for a 3rd or 4th bedroom. I suspect it would have a service fee and a lifetime service fee that would be slightly less than the TiVo Mini.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Let's take a leap and assume that Tivo did consider offering the Roku app at retail - I think it is time to play the "what would it cost game" again! 

The Mini costs $99 + $5.99 a month ($149.99 Lifetime)

I would expect that with the Roku app, the app would be free ($100 savings) and the service would be $3.99 a month with *no lifetime option*.

Question:

1) Would a Roku portal subscription give you access to multiple Ruku's in your home or only one?

2) What would cable labs do if you leveraged the "stream" functionality to allow the Roku to be used in OOH mode! (about as likely as congress passing a budget!!!!) 

* This is just a fun swag at a "what if". While I think it is possible that TiVo might offer the Roku app at retail, I do not think it is necessarily likely.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I bet it's free or a small one time fee for the app. Like I said you need a Stream or high end Roamio to use it anyway, so TiVo is getting their money. No need to charge for "service". While some may feel the same about the Mini it's a little different as the Mini provides the full TiVo experience on a secondary TV. This provides an inferior picture (720p), limited controls (skipping only), limited management features and fake live TV. While some may see it as an alternative to the Mini it's really a poor substitute in most cases so I don't think it will be a real threat to the Mini.


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## takeagabu (Oct 7, 2007)

Looks like this ain't happening.

"Update: As Takeagabu points out in the comments, the Roku channel may just be an endpoint for TiVo&#8217;s network DVR to be offered by cable companies and not necessarily an option made available to retail customers. I know I&#8217;d pay for it&#8230;"

"Thru unofficial channels I&#8217;ve been informed TiVo is not developing a Roku app. So either these were Photoshopped and distributed to press on the off chance that some day down the line they might decide to build it and seek coverage at the same time corporate email is down&#8230; or maybe they&#8217;re just not ready to acknowledge their plans. Either way, with TiVo (and most companies), purchasing decisions should be made based on what&#8217;s available versus what might one day appear. Although I nearly slipped and purchased a TiVo Stream after posting this. Hope it comes to fruition (and for retail)."


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Takeagabu,

I just posted a similar thought, but you beat me to it.



> *Hmmm*
> A thought just came to me... What if this isn't leveraging the TiVo stream to drive the Roku app? It is possible that the Roku app is to be used to support the cloud service TiVo only. Just a thought, but it is possible.


Yeah, I bet that is the case considering what TiVo's focus was at CES


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

takeagabu said:


> Looks like this ain't happening.
> 
> "Update: As Takeagabu points out in the comments, the Roku channel may just be an endpoint for TiVos network DVR to be offered by cable companies and not necessarily an option made available to retail customers. I know Id pay for it"
> 
> "Thru unofficial channels Ive been informed TiVo is not developing a Roku app. So either these were Photoshopped and distributed to press on the off chance that some day down the line they might decide to build it and seek coverage at the same time corporate email is down or maybe theyre just not ready to acknowledge their plans. Either way, with TiVo (and most companies), purchasing decisions should be made based on whats available versus what might one day appear. Although I nearly slipped and purchased a TiVo Stream after posting this. Hope it comes to fruition (and for retail)."


Yeah, but it's still a fun 'what if...?' thought experiment.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

bradleys said:


> Let's take a leap and assume that Tivo did consider offering the Roku app at retail


Why do people assume this is for MSOs? Why would MSOs want this? They have just as much incentive as TiVo, probably more, to rent you a Mini instead. (or in the case of the could service one of their own boxes)

If this exists then I think it'll be for the retail market. I don't think there will be a monthly fee. And I think the app will either free or a small one time fee. (<$50) Charging monthly for an app doesn't really fit into TiVo's subscription system. Plus there are the logistics of having the app run on multiple Rokus, etc... Just seems difficult to manage.


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## takeagabu (Oct 7, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Why do people assume this is for MSOs?


Because that was the context it was shown in. It was shown as a mock up (along with an ipad app mock up) of the possibilities when using their cloud dvr prototype.

And as Dave Zatz has unofficially confirmed, tivo is not working on this.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

SugarBowl said:


> It could be a $150 roku app.


If TiVo was actually working on this they would have to finish developing it first. And that would take TiVo two to three years. If we were lucky.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

If they did offer it though, they could really hurt Simple.tv sales. I would probably finally decide to cut the cord with a Roamio basic for OTA and then a few Rokus scattered around. I'm so friggin done with cable and satellite and their pricing scheme/business model.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> If they did offer it though, they could really hurt Simple.tv sales. I would probably finally decide to cut the cord with a Roamio basic for OTA and then a few Rokus scattered around. I'm so friggin done with cable and satellite and their pricing scheme/business model.


You could do that now with a Roamio and a couple of Minis. Why would this be better to you? Do you already own Rokus in each room? Or do you think it would be cheaper?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> You could do that now with a Roamio and a couple of Minis. Why would this be better to you? Do you already own Rokus in each room? Or do you think it would be cheaper?


I'm talking so I could only have one device at those TVs, a Roku, for live tv and almost ALL streaming services (unlike a TiVo full, mini or otherwise). I worked out the costs and yes it's cheaper.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Having used both a Mini and a Stream extensively I would much rather have a Mini for a secondary TV. While the experience with the Stream is acceptable when watching a show before bed I would not want to deal with it for long bouts of TV watching. It's touchy and buggy and the trick play controls are a bit slow. The Mini is just like sitting in front of the actual TiVo and using it.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Yeah, I had a few interesting behind the scenes conversations yesterday. And I'm not sure we can trust TiVo's marketing firm due to the doublespeak, contradictory statements. All that is known for sure is that TiVo produced and indirectly provided the images - whether they're merely a mockup OR a screengrab of something in progress, I can't definitively say. Roku was mentioned in regards to the network DVR offering targeted at MSO customers. But these images were provided without context. (This isn't the first time TiVo's marketing folks accidentally slipped images into a press kit - remember user profiles and Comcast On Demand before it was announced?)

I personally hope it's all true and on track for TiVo retail customers in 2014. And there's no logical reason why I remain a TiVo optimist, given my familiarity with the HDUI and Android streaming.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I personally wish the 2 companies would merge and offer the best of both worlds including:


A DVR with all the streaming ablities of a Roku and DVR functionality of a TiVo.
A stand alone streaming device that provide all the streaming abilities of a Roku and all the functions of a Mini.
A stand alone blu-ray player that provide all the streaming abilities of a Roku and all the functions of a Mini.
Software for TV manufactures that provide all the streaming abilities of a Roku and all the functions of a Mini. 
Then we would have something .

Given I don't think that will ever happen, I think TiVo would be better off spending the time & money this would cost on actually having their Roamio DVRs provide as close as possible to as good/complete of a streaming experience as a Roku.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> If they did offer it though, they could really hurt Simple.tv sales. I would probably finally decide to cut the cord with a Roamio basic for OTA and then a few Rokus scattered around. I'm so friggin done with cable and satellite and their pricing scheme/business model.


Not following the logic here, a simple.TV box is still way cheaper than a lifetime Basic. And for OTA folks looking to cheap out in every way possible, that means something.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Not following the logic here, a simple.TV box is still way cheaper than a lifetime Basic. And for OTA folks looking to cheap out in every way possible, that means something.


A dual tuner simple TV with lifetime is $400 + the cost of a hard drive. So if someone wants/needs more than 2 tuners a Roamio + 3TB drive + lifetime will be cheaper. If the Roamio worked with a Roku the same as a simple TV did why wouldn't it be major competition?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Again, it's cheaper and that's all that matters to this crowd - tuner count etc. is irrelevant. You've been over in the HDTV Recorders section of AVS, so you know there's a distinct minority there that hates Tivo and wants to get a nice OTA DVR for as little money as possible, even when we say it's not possible based on what they want to pay.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Again, it's cheaper and that's all that matters to this crowd - tuner count etc. is irrelevant. You've been over in the HDTV Recorders section of AVS, so you know there's a distinct minority there that hates Tivo and wants to get a nice OTA DVR for as little money as possible, even when we say it's not possible based on what they want to pay.


Tuner count is hardly irrelevant. To compare Apples to Apples you have to compare the same tuner counts. So to have four tuners with each device, which costs less?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I said 'cheaper is all that matters to this crowd'.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

You're not taking into account the numerous used Premieres out there being sold with lifetime. I have both simple.tv and a roamio, believe me, if TiVo had a Roku channel, simple.tv would definitely feel it!


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Again, it's cheaper and that's all that matters to this crowd - tuner count etc. is irrelevant. You've been over in the HDTV Recorders section of AVS, so you know there's a distinct minority there that hates Tivo and wants to get a nice OTA DVR for as little money as possible, even when we say it's not possible based on what they want to pay.


Yes there will always be people who want a DVR for next to nothing. Basically they are irrelevant, as no company is going to bother with them because selling stuff at a loss isn't very good business.

That said simple TV DVRs are not next to nothing $400 for dual tuner unit with lifetime service, another $100+/- for a USB hard drive, & another $50-$100 for a Roku. Which is $550-$600 so how is that any different than a Roamio with lifetime? In the end I still think most people are more interested in getting the feature set they want and will pay a few dollars more for something that gives it to them versus something that doesn't. There are good reason someone might want a simple TV setup instead of a Roamio but it really isn't just price and why if TiVo had a Roku app it would provide more competition to simple TV setups.

Sure if all someone wants is a single tuner without real guide data you can get into something for allot less but with the Price of Series 3/ TiVo HD units with lifetime dropping to around $200 you can still get a TiVo for about the same money.

There are several good alternatives for OTA DVRs, including the up coming Channel Master, Simple TV setups, HTPC setups and various TiVos. Competition is good and I hope they all fight hard for market share.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> .......That said simple TV DVRs are not next to nothing $400 for dual tuner unit with lifetime service, another $100+/- for a USB hard drive, & another $50-$100 for a Roku. Which is $550-$600 so how is that any different than a Roamio with lifetime? In the end I still think most people are more interested in getting the feature set they want and will pay a few dollars more for something that gives it to them versus something that doesn't. There are good reason someone might want a simple TV setup instead of a Roamio but it really isn't just price and why if TiVo had a Roku app it would provide more competition to simple TV setups.


You just contradicted yourself and made the point. You just said why get simple.tv when Roamio is similar in cost, then go on to say why if TiVo had a Roku app would it be competition for simple.tv. Ummmmmm, because its a better experience, similar in cost and also would have a Roku channel (if released).



atmuscarella said:


> Sure if all someone wants is a single tuner without real guide data you can get into something for allot less but with the Price of Series 3/ TiVo HD units with lifetime dropping to around $200 you can still get a TiVo for about the same money.......


Simple.tv has a dual tuner and you just referenced it in the first quote above. Also there's nothing wrong with their guide data. Series 3's don't and won't connect with minis and probably won't take advantage of the Roku channel, so it's moot in this discussion. Plus if you want to add additional TVs you'd need a mini, so it would have to be a premiere4 or above, but with Roku channel you only need another cheap Roku.

TiVo Roamio Basic w/ Lifetime: $550
ATSC Antenna: $50-100
2 Roku 3: $180
Total = $780-830 out the door with the only monthly fees being streaming services like Netflix and Hulu+, etc. 
That also takes into account you don't own many of those devices already like antenna, Roku, hard drives, etc. I personally do so its even cheaper for me and probably many others.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

HarperVision said:


> You just contradicted yourself and made the point. You just said why get simple.tv when Roamio is similar in cost, then go on to say why if TiVo had a Roku app would it be competition for simple.tv. Ummmmmm, because its a better experience, similar in cost and also would have a Roku channel (if released).


The point I was trying to make was the price isn't much different one way or the other, but there are different features with a Simple TV versus a TiVo setup that might be just as import to many as the price difference in deciding which way to go.



HarperVision said:


> Simple.tv has a dual tuner and you just referenced it in the first quote above. Also there's nothing wrong with their guide data. Series 3's don't and won't connect with minis and probably won't take advantage of the Roku channel, so it's moot in this discussion. Plus if you want to add additional TVs you'd need a mini, so it would have to be a premiere4 or above, but with Roku channel you only need another cheap Roku.
> 
> TiVo Roamio Basic w/ Lifetime: $550
> ATSC Antenna: $50-100
> ...


You can/could buy single tuner simple TVs and other brands of tuners that allow you to attach a hard drive and use them as a VCR style DVR without any guide data. My point here was that even at this rock bottom price point you will still spend as much as a used Series 3/TiVo HD with lifetime so even at the very low end there are TiVo options that are price competitive.

I guess my over all point is that some people try to say that TiVos cost allot more than other options for OTA DVRs. My opinion is that is a false representation of what is available. While I don't think TiVos are cheap or a price leader they are price competitive when you compare obtaining a similar feature set and any increase in TiVo's feature set (like adding a Roku channel) would make them even more competitive.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

We agree on this forum that Tivos are not necessarily more expensive especially when you consider used market, but there's a significant number of people that have been put off by Tivo's fee scheme and refuse to consider them. Logic has no bearing here, and companies like simple.TV will appeal to that crowd at a (somewhat) lower retail price. That's all I was trying to say.


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