# Warning for those receiving NY or LA HD locals!!



## mframe20 (Apr 16, 2006)

Well, just when you thought Directv couldn't mess with their customer any more... I'm in Dallas, so I've been getting the NY HD feed of NBC, CBS, and FOX. Well, NBC was off today, so I called up customer service and after being transfered many different times, I finally was talking to their "HD tech support". When I asked what was up with NBC, he said I'm not eligible to receive it because Dallas now has local HD's in MPEG4. He then proceeded to tell me that if I paid $99 and gave DirecTV my HDTivo that I paid close to a $1000 for, then they would send me an MPEG4 box. I told him that that was ridiculous because 1) it would not be able to record since it is not a DVR and 2) I bought my Tivo so I'm not giving it back to anyone unless they trade it for an MPEG4 HD DVR, which we all know they don't have. He then said that the much-awaited MPEG4 HD DVR wouldn't be available until late 2006, and when it is, those of us with the HDTivos will still have to pay quite a bit of an upgrade fee and trade in our boxes to get the new one on a lease. 

What makes me even more mad is when I told him that my CBS and FOX was still coming in fine, he again said I wasn't supposed to be getting any of those either, so he turned those off too. Unfortunately, an antenna is not an option becasue I'm 50 miles from the towers and my area is in a hole. This would make me cancel DirecTV and switch to cable, except there is no cable in my neighborhood. So now I'm not able to get any networks in HD.

Has anyone else experienced this? Be careful when talking to these clowns b/c they might turn your channels off too. It must be nice to play God with the Tv channels...


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

San Francisco has had MPEG-4 locals for a while, they haven't turned off any of my LA HD locals.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I have had MPEG-4 locals (in my home none the less) for at least 6 months now...

Still have my MPEG-2 NY Feeds.
It will probably stay that way until at least the HR20 is released (my guess)

IIRC some posts a few months back (I think it was Doug who posted it) that it will be a year after an area get's MPEG-4 before the NY/LA feeds will be shut down for that market.


To add to that, the week before the SuperBowl my neighboor (After jumping through a good number of hoops) got the MPEG-2 feeds turned on... (even though Chicago has MPEG-4)... 

I think you got the bad luck of a CSR who doesn't fully understand the HD rules (aka, with the HR10-250 and no HR20 yet, they are making exceptions)


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

mframe20, I'd suggest you call them up and tell them that btwyx and ebonovic are still getting NY and LA MPEG-2 locals, and see what happens 

Seriously, you ought to try calling back to see if you can get a different CSR.


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

mrframe, I can't believe they're doing this to you! Don't put up with this sh*t!

Don't just talk to any D* CSR, call 866-678-6664 and demand to be transferred to the* HD-DNS eligibility division.* They are the people you need to speak to. Until D* provides us with an HD DVR, I don't see how they can justify cancelling your HD DNS's.

There are a lot of us in exactly your situation (me included), so please let us know how this turns out.

Good luck! :up:


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## Fluffybear (Nov 10, 2000)

Wirelezz said:


> mrframe, I can't believe they're doing this to you! Don't put up with this sh*t!
> 
> Don't just talk to any D* CSR, call 866-678-6664 and demand to be transferred to the* HD-DNS eligibility division.* They are the people you need to speak to. Until D* provides us with an HD DVR, I don't see how they can justify cancelling your HD DNS's.
> 
> ...


DNS is not a god given right! You have no right to demand anything!

Yes, It stinks and it will piss me off when and if it happens to me but I realize that this is not a god given right and DirecTV is only following the law.

The local affliate could have exercised their right to cut off HD DNS (remember you are only getting it because the local affliate has approved you to receive it) so you have no right to complain and make demands.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

Q for OP: Did you have waviers? Or did you get the NYC HD feeds because of O&O or other reason?

I have waviers for all 4 networks and get LA HD feeds and I'm in a MPEG4 LIL area. I have assumed that the waviers would allow me to keep the LA feeds but now I'm not so sure...


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## Gotchaa (Feb 9, 2003)

If you don't have an MPEG 4 receiver, and you have an HD DVR, D* should allow you to keep either the east or west coast feeds until they can provide an HD dvr with mpeg4 capabilities. If they give you a hard time, ask them how you are suppose to record Lost in HD with an mpeg2 hd dvr?


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## lmk911 (Dec 17, 2000)

How does this work if you have the DNS under the grandfather clause? I have had the east/west coast feeds since 97 and I will be adding an H10-250 soon. I would be royally upset, to put it lightly, if some bozo HD tech disconnected my networks. Obviously, if I wanted my locals I would have dropped my distant networks when I was given the choice last year.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

According to the Director of Engineering at the CBS O&O in my market (Sacramento), the station plans to cancel all HD DNS waivers when DirecTV begins providing his station in HD. I don't think it matters to them (the station) whether there is a DVR available or not.

That said, he didn't give me any timetable of WHEN the waivers would be yanked. Certainly, it would seem dumb to pull them immediately, since the vast majority of the D* subscribers do not have MPEG-4 receivers. A letter of warning would be nice, letting the subscriber know that on a particular date, preferably several months down the road, the service will be terminated.

We shall see. The last I heard, service to this market was scheduled to begin THIS WEEK. I'll find out soon enough if I lose the KCBS feed ...


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## mframe20 (Apr 16, 2006)

I had originally signed up for them b/c of O&O (for Dallas- NBC, CBS, and FOX), but I still had to wait for waivers to go through before D* would turn them on. Other people I know in the area are still getting them. From what the CSR told me, they don't have the ability to yank them for everyone at once, but when I called up the directv line, the computer pulled up my account and showed that I was receiving them, so he said by law he had to turn them off. When I asked about everyone else in the area, he said that theirs would get cut off too if they called up and an intelligent CSR saw on their account that they were recieving MPEG-2 NY feeds while in an MPEG4 market. I'm calling BS on all that! I think I got a CSR on a powertrip, so I'm going to call up again and see if I can talk to anyone else? Does anyone think it would be worth it to talk to my local stations since they originally approved the waiver, or would I be just wasting my time? THanks.


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## Chargerdan (Dec 10, 2004)

Can't you just lease a new H20 without giving up the HD Tivo? You will have to change your viewing habits for HD programming but you can still keep it and use it. I would hold onto the Tivo until the HR20 is out.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

mframe20 said:


> Does anyone think it would be worth it to talk to my local stations since they originally approved the waiver, or would I be just wasting my time?


My personal feeling is that it would be a waste of time, since it is in the local station's best interest for you to watch THEIR broadcasts, and not those from out-of-market. Since their signals are AVAILABLE to you, I can't see any reason why they would grant you a waiver.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

You could always "move" to NY


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## calguy99 (Feb 17, 2004)

Well if my "distant networks" were cancelled I would absolutely no reason to stay with Directv. Either go with Dish or go with cable HDTV.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

Well if you're in Cambria, you've got nothing to worry about -- you're not part of a market that will be getting MPEG-4 locals anytime soon! 

Nice area BTW -- I love visiting there.


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## jm_sullivan (Dec 10, 2003)

Don't Panic

The OP had a problem with his setup. He/She lived in Dallas and had East coast HD feeds. That shouldn't happen. IIRC the law passed recently(which is one of the hardest things to make sense of that I've ever read) states that you can only receive one of the coast feeds depending on your geographic location. I.E. Eastern and Central time zones get NY feeds while Western and Mountain time zones get LA feeds. I'm not sure if they broke it down by time zones, but it was something similar. When this law got passed I had Fox waivers and got the SD LA/NY feeds and HD LA/NY feeds for Fox. They turned off my HD LA feed.

So the OP calls with a channel turned on that the law explicitly does not allow. Those got turned off immediately. If he had the west coast feeds turned on, then he/she could be grandfathered in, but since he/she didnt... no HD feeds at all. Does this suck? you bet... but so does that idiot law they wrote.

As for the turning off of the feeds for other people that have them... I have all the NY HD feeds. Philadelphia got MPEG4 last fall sometime(one of the first). I have gotten no notices about service ending. We'll see how long this lasts.


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## KSbugeater (Jan 26, 2006)

Last time I checked, Dallas was in the Central Time Zone, and therefore used to get NY feeds. It's not a wrong coast issue. The problem here is that D* _should_ turn off the distants in an area that was granted them by O/O stations when that area's locals go MPEG4. They just don't bother to unless some CSR decides to go "hall monitor" and enforce SHVERA like happened to the OP. All y'all that live in MPEG4 cities and are still receiving HD distants are just living on borrowed time while D* looks the other way.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sirshagg said:


> You could always "move" to NY


DON'T do THAT! The time being wrong on your TiVo's is really obnoxious! I moved to a White area after spending over an hour on Streets and Trips and plugging in areas into DirecTV's website. I found an area that is outside of Denvers DMA, but not in any others and I qualified for ALL LA HD-DNS plus kept my Denver locals.

Nice.


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## jm_sullivan (Dec 10, 2003)

Don't panic round 2

so... my fault on Dallas being in central time. Sorry... it did explain the actions of the CSR. I now have no idea why the CSR did that. 
Taking a look again at the law(found Here ) I come up with a few points:

1. SEC. 204. REPLACEMENT OF DISTANT SIGNALS WITH LOCAL SIGNALS.
(ii) PRE-ENACTMENT DISTANT DIGITAL SIGNAL SUBSCRIBERS- Any eligible subscriber under this subparagraph who is a lawful subscriber to such a distant digital signal as of the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004 may continue to receive such distant digital signal, whether or not such subscriber elects to subscribe to local digital signals.

my translation of this is... if you have the signal, you get to keep it. No time frame is specified.

2. (iv) LOCAL-TO-LOCAL DIGITAL MARKETS- After the date on which a satellite carrier makes available the digital signal of a local network station, the carrier may not offer the distant digital signal of a network station affiliated with the same television network to any new subscriber to such distant digital signal after such date, except that such distant digital signal may be provided to a new subscriber who cannot be reached by the satellite transmission of the local digital signal.

translation - if they have local digital and you are new... you have to get local digital. no DNS for you.

3. SEC. 205. ADDITIONAL NOTICES TO SUBSCRIBERS, NETWORKS, AND STATIONS CONCERNING SIGNAL CARRIAGE.
Section 338 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 338) is further amended by inserting after subsection (g) (as added by section 203) the following new subsection:
`(h) Additional Notices to Subscribers, Networks, and Stations Concerning Signal Carriage- 
`(1) NOTICES TO AND ELECTIONS BY SUBSCRIBERS CONCERNING GRANDFATHERED SIGNALS- Any carrier that provides a distant signal of a network station to a subscriber pursuant section 339(a)(2)(A) shall--
`(A) within 60 days after the local signal of a network station of the same television network is available pursuant to section 338, or within 60 days after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004, whichever is later, send a notice to the subscriber--
`(i) offering to substitute the local network signal for the duplicating distant network signal; and
`(ii) informing the subscriber that, if the subscriber fails to respond in 60 days, the subscriber will lose the distant network signal but will be permitted to subscribe to the local network signal; and
`(B) if the subscriber--
`(i) elects to substitute such local network signal within such 60 days, switch such subscriber to such local network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period; or
`(ii) fails to respond within such 60 days, terminate the distant network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period.

This part is a bit worrisome. It makes no differentiation between analog and digital, but most other sections do. It seems to imply though that you could choose to stick with the NY or LA signal instead of the local signal. Has anyone gotten this letter ever??

To sum up the way I read this, the OP should not have had the DNS stations removed so long as he was a valid subscriber as of December 8, 2004. There is no provision that I can find that describes terminating the grandfathered clause without a notice as described in my third point.

I am not a lawyer. Reading this document is like reading a very badly compiled 9th grade paper. Add to that the fact that congress hasn't actually written this law from scratch. They keep amending the 1934 law and referring back to it which is very confusing to try and follow. I apologize if I've missed any big points, but I tried to quote sections that I thought were relevant.


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## calguy99 (Feb 17, 2004)

videojanitor said:


> Well if you're in Cambria, you've got nothing to worry about -- you're not part of a market that will be getting MPEG-4 locals anytime soon!
> 
> Nice area BTW -- I love visiting there.


Well I'm not sure how much HD programing is being broadcast on the local channels anyway. I'm itching to get a Panny 42 or 50 inch HDTV but I'm not sure how NTSC programming and DVDs are going to look. The bulk of my viewing right now will be in NTSC on Directv. Any Panasonic HDTV owners care to comment on the picture quality in NTSC and the closest viewing distances for the 42 and 50 inch screens?

Thanks


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## Camelot One (Feb 20, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> DON'T do THAT! The time being wrong on your TiVo's is really obnoxious! I moved to a White area after spending over an hour on Streets and Trips and plugging in areas into DirecTV's website. I found an area that is outside of Denvers DMA, but not in any others and I qualified for ALL LA HD-DNS plus kept my Denver locals.
> 
> Nice.


You just have to use the manual time zone setting. East coast feeds air at the same time as Central, its just the time on clocks that is different.

Moving to NY works just fine, provided you live in either the Eastern or Central time zones.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Camelot One said:


> Moving to NY works just fine, provided you live in either the Eastern or Central time zones.


I don't think it matters. I know someone  who lives in an East coast 'zone' but gets the LA feeds. They set the time zone on the Tivo to where they live and all works just fine. Sure the LA shows show up at the offset times in the guide, but so what? Actually it comes in handy for conflicts with the OTA HD locals.  I'm not sure what Adam1115 had a problem with.


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## hoopsbwc34 (Jan 28, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> DON'T do THAT! The time being wrong on your TiVo's is really obnoxious! I moved to a White area after spending over an hour on Streets and Trips and plugging in areas into DirecTV's website. I found an area that is outside of Denvers DMA, but not in any others and I qualified for ALL LA HD-DNS plus kept my Denver locals.
> 
> Nice.


Adam, can you explain more? How did you keep your denver locals if you switched to an out of DMA address? Did you then call and switch back to your Denver address after a certain amount of time?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> I don't think it matters. I know someone  who lives in an East coast 'zone' but gets the LA feeds. They set the time zone on the Tivo to where they live and all works just fine. Sure the LA shows show up at the offset times in the guide, but so what? Actually it comes in handy for conflicts with the OTA HD locals.  I'm not sure what Adam1115 had a problem with.


I didn't have a 'problem' with it, I just felt that it was anoying having goofy times in the guide and I didn't get my Denver locals. Now I get the LA HD Locals AND my Denver Locals now, and the times are all correct.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

hoopsbwc34 said:


> Adam, can you explain more? How did you keep your denver locals if you switched to an out of DMA address? Did you then call and switch back to your Denver address after a certain amount of time?


I 'moved' to a white area that is still in Colorado. I kept my Denver locals and requested HD Distant locals. Because the area in colorado is FAR from Denver, but not part of any other DMA (CO Springs, Cheyenne, Grand Junction), I didn't even need waivers.


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

*mframe20*... I would do as someone upstream suggested -- call and ask to be transferred to the HD-DNS group. Only they can help you, not a dummy CSR.

That being said, since last Aug 23rd there is no "grandfather clause" if you got the 3 HD stations (for DFW) via the original O&O "exemption." When I moved last September, I lost them and didn't get them back for 2 days till I ended up at the HD-DNS group, who fixed it for me. There is no grandfather clause for *anyone * now -- move or change your locals package and you risk losing your HD DNS service.

As an aside, that may be worthless: 2 weeks ago the six months free locals deal I had ended and I lost my locals, even though I had called ahead of time to ensure that "total choice w/ locals" continued. When I called to get it fixed, the CSR had no trouble at all ensuring my HD DNS were back too.


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