# Closed Captioning vs HDMI



## jimp (Jan 1, 2005)

I received a rather nasty unexpected surprise this evening. 

After replacing a failing DVD Recorder with a new model with HDMI, I found out that Closed Captioning data does not get transmitted across an HDMI cable/signal. I'm not exactly hard of hearing, but CC does help me a lot, and I've grown used to watching TV with it turned on. (It vastly reduces the "what did he just say!?" type of questions, among other things...)

Some others who experienced the same problem were able to switch on CC decoding in their tuner or DVR, but as far as I can see there is no option on my DirecTiVo to display captions. I understand this option is present on an S3, and on some HD TiVo models, correct?

Previously, I was connecting my old DVD Recorder via component cables, and as long as I kept it on 480i, I still received caption data. I imagine I would get the same result with the new DVD Recorder, but I would lose the higher quality output and upconversion that the new recorder is capable of.

So are there any known solutions to this problem? Or am I stuck going back to the lower quality output? I know that it does not make a difference for watching regular TV, but I would prefer to use the higher quality output for DVD playback.

I will experiment some and see if I can have my DVD recorder output to component and HDMI at the same time, and switch the TV input to watch with higher quality I guess. I'll report back what I find if nobody has a better solution.

My living room setup is listed in my signature.

Thanks!

Jim


----------



## jimp (Jan 1, 2005)

I take the lack of replies to mean that there isn't a good alternative. 

Anyhow, the workaround that I suspected would work, does work.

I am able to have both the HDMI and Component connections active. Captioning works fine for me with 480i over Component cables. I have my Harmony remote switch to Component when watching TV, and to HDMI for DVD Playback. Sometimes I also leave it on Component for DVD playback when the disc lacks subtitles or the subtitles are not easily accessed.

If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of the difference between the video output of SD TiVo and DVD Playback with HDMI (upscaled to 1080i) vs 480i over Component cables.


----------



## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

jimp said:


> I take the lack of replies to mean that there isn't a good alternative.
> 
> Anyhow, the workaround that I suspected would work, does work.
> 
> ...


What does this have to do with DTivo receivers? That may explain the lack of any feedback on the question.


----------



## jimp (Jan 1, 2005)

I wanted to know if there was a way to turn on CC in the DirecTiVo box. The standalone S3 and HD TiVos apparently are able to decode closed captioning, but for whatever reason this feature is missing on DirecTiVos.


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

jimp said:


> I take the lack of replies to mean that there isn't a good alternative.
> 
> Anyhow, the workaround that I suspected would work, does work.
> 
> ...


You do know that component will pass 1080i? It's composite that won't. This may help in your connections.


----------



## jimp (Jan 1, 2005)

I wasn't aware of that, but unfortunately it won't help in my case.

This particular DVD Recorder will only output 480i/480p on Component. With HDMI it will do 480p/720p/1080i/1080p. 

Had I known about this ahead of time I would have done more research before replacing the recorder. That said, I'm content with the current setup, though I do wish the designers of the HDMI spec had accounted for Closed Captioning...

If it weren't for my Harmony remote making the changes so easy, I probably would have taken it back and tried a different model.

Bringing this back to the original topic though, does anyone know why the Closed Captioning decoder was left out of the DirecTiVo? Or at least disabled.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

jimp said:


> Bringing this back to the original topic though, does anyone know why the Closed Captioning decoder was left out of the DirecTiVo? Or at least disabled.


The standard-definition DirecTiVos don't have a built-in CC decoder because their outputs (S-video, composite, coax) have no problems passing along the CC data. The presumption was that they'd be hooked up directly to a TV with its own built-in decoder.

As far as I know, the high-definition DirecTiVo, the HR10-250, _does_ have a built-in CC decoder.

Does the upconversion provided by the DVD recorder really make a noticeable difference on DirecTV programming? My solution would have been to route one of the outputs from the DirecTiVo directly to the TV (for watching TV), and the other to the DVD recorder (for recording purposes), but then that upconversion wouldn't be there.


----------



## jimp (Jan 1, 2005)

> The standard-definition DirecTiVos don't have a built-in CC decoder because their outputs (S-video, composite, coax) have no problems passing along the CC data. The presumption was that they'd be hooked up directly to a TV with its own built-in decoder.
> 
> As far as I know, the high-definition DirecTiVo, the HR10-250, does have a built-in CC decoder.


I had read in another thread here that they did have a decoder, and it could be accessed by pressing "info" while watching a program, and hitting down a couple times to highlight the CC option. Supposedly there are even font and color options. I may have misunderstood the model to which they were referring.

If I had some more spare cash I might use this as an excuse to push the wife into letting me get a HD DirecTiVo ;-)

I thought the FCC said that any tuner had to be capable of CC decoding, not necessarily at the monitor/TV. I guess if they pass it through they can get around that rule.



> Does the upconversion provided by the DVD recorder really make a noticeable difference on DirecTV programming? My solution would have been to route one of the outputs from the DirecTiVo directly to the TV (for watching TV), and the other to the DVD recorder (for recording purposes), but then that upconversion wouldn't be there.


It doesn't really help much, if at all. I'll do some more testing tonight but the difference with the SD TiVo was marginal. That is why I so readily fell back to using the component outputs.

My wife and son like having the TV route through the DVD recorder. In order to watch a movie, they only have to put the disc in the drive. It automatically takes over at that point and plays the disc. When the disc is ejected or the movie is stopped, it goes back to the TV. Very simple and convenient, no messing with input switching and such. I also preferred both connections to be higher quality, and my DirecTiVo only has one S-Video out.

Incidentally, we moved the DVD recorder that no longer records properly into our bedroom to make watching DVDs easier in there as well.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

jimp said:


> I thought the FCC said that any tuner had to be capable of CC decoding, not necessarily at the monitor/TV.


Basically, only TVs with a diagonal screen size of 13 inches or larger are required to have built-in decoding.


----------

