# New TiVo HD Upgrade Program - Save $100!



## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Does TiVo think its existing customers are idiots? 

No additional savings on Lifetime Service ($299) and the $100 lower 'sale' price of the XL is $30 higher than at Amazon.com

https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade.do


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

So what Amazon got 38 prices for the Tivo HDXL from $469.00 to $653.00 a $154 higher then Tivo.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

Usually frowned upon to post in multiple threads. If you are really wanting one, buy from where ever the cheapest one is and then buy the lifetime. Otherwise not sure what you are complaining about.... other than Tivo not making their boxes dirt cheap; but that's a whole other topic that's been thrashed to death in my opinion. I will say we all would like lower prices and leave it at that.

Personally for me, buy an HD and upgrade the hard drive, ALMOST the same box (almost the operative word).

Good luck to ya!


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

Tivo asks for feedback on the upgrade program on the webpage. Tell them what you think of their "upgrade" program.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

newskilz said:


> Usually frowned upon to post in multiple threads. If you are really wanting one, buy from where ever the cheapest one is and then buy the lifetime. Otherwise not sure what you are complaining about.... other than Tivo not making their boxes dirt cheap; but that's a whole other topic that's been thrashed to death in my opinion. I will say we all would like lower prices and leave it at that.
> 
> Personally for me, buy an HD and upgrade the hard drive, ALMOST the same box (almost the operative word).
> 
> Good luck to ya!


I didn't intend to post in two threads. The _'Flag this message'_ part of the header of this thread is an error and I'd hoped a Moderator would delete the first post and thus the thread and the second post here would be the header post of a properly titled thread. Anyway...

I learned about the *New TiVo HD Upgrade Program* from an 'exclusive' email yesterday which was apparently sent to owners of standard-def S2 and S1 TiVos with active TiVo Service.

At first glance it looked like a good deal worth pursuing but after checking it out the 'exclusive' deal proved to offer less than what is already available to everyone, with or without older TiVos still with service.



reneg said:


> Tivo asks for feedback on the upgrade program on the webpage. Tell them what you think of their "upgrade" program.


Excellent idea! Thanks.

If TiVo pitches an 'exclusive' offer to current customers it should be better than deals available to non-current customers, not worse. This deal is all sizzle and no substance.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

caddyroger said:


> So what Amazon got 38 prices for the Tivo HDXL from $469.00 to $653.00 a $154 higher then Tivo.


Yes they do!

But why would any Amazon shopper who wasn't an idiot choose to buy from another listed seller when the top deal from Amazon itself has the lowest price and free shipping? 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...p?ie=UTF8&qid=1254924315&sr=1-3&condition=new


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Does this "deal" include the wireless adapter? That would, slightly, change the numbers.

Manufacturers frequently sell products at "list price". They don't want to undercut retailers (B&M or online). This deal is $100 under the normal tivo direct price. A person who's willing to shop can save a few dollars buying from a different vendor.

I have a bigger issue with tivo offering a refurbished unit to existing customers who don't qualify for this "deal". Many people won't go to the bottom of the page and don't realize purchasing a refurbished tivo prevents a customer form getting MSD.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

reneg said:


> Tivo asks for feedback on the upgrade program on the webpage. Tell them what you think of their "upgrade" program.


Feeback left:

*TiVo Survey*

1. What are your thoughts on the TiVo DVR Upgrade program?



> It stinks! At first I thought you were offering a real deal, then discovered that anybody, whether or not a current customer, could get a better deal on HDTiVo XL without your 'exclusive offer'.


2. If you are not likely to take the DVR upgrade offer, please tell us why.



> If you make an 'exclusive offer' make it significantly better than anything else available. Don't need more useless hype!


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

lew said:


> Does this "deal" include the wireless adapter? That would, slightly, change the numbers.


No. It's an optional extra for $60.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Accepting your numbers a person who's not eligible for this offer will pay an extra $130 if they order the unit directly from tivo. A person who's eligible for this offer will only "overpay" $30.

You really don't have a complaint regarding this offer so much as you have a complaint regarding the price tivo is selling units direct vs the price units are available from internet vendors.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

I disagree. I have no problem with either TiVo's pricing or online vendors' pricing. It's a free market; they can offer TiVos for whatever they choose.

I do have a complaint for TiVo for their email full of crap, and the misleading hype on their website (and the issue you raised in your earlier post, BTW) but aside from posting about their dirty diapers here, I did also let them know directly!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TiVo can't undercut their own vendors that sell TiVo's. It would be bad business practice. That is why the only time you really see good deals on TiVo.com are with bundles. You will rarely find a good "deal" on a standalone TiVo that doesn't have other costs associated with it.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

If you want to track price history at Amazon:

http://camelcamelcamel.com/

I bought my HD on May 18 for $209 and was happy to see (later) that I hit the price minimum, which lasted only an hour or two. Actually I originally ordered at $214 and then saw an hour later it was down to $209 and had to call Amazon and negotiate the better price.

These prices include shipping, so before you post that Amazon sold cheaper than that through one of their third party suppliers, be sure to check how much shipping would have been.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

fallingwater said:


> Does TiVo think its existing customers are idiots?





fallingwater said:


> I disagree. I have no problem with either TiVo's pricing or online vendors' pricing. It's a free market; they can offer TiVos for whatever they choose.


You can't think existing customers are idiots for paying an extra $30 if they take advantage of this "deal" and order direct from tivo unless you also think new customers are idiots for paying an extra $130 for the same option.

I have a much bigger issue with offering refurbished units to existing subscribers.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

lew said:


> You can't think existing customers are idiots for paying an extra $30 if they take advantage of this "deal" and order direct from tivo unless you also think new customers are idiots for paying an extra $130 for the same option.


*BINGO!*



> I have a much bigger issue with offering refurbished units to existing subscribers.


*BONGO! BANGO!*


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

fallingwater said:


> *BINGO!*
> 
> *BONGO! BANGO!*


Since I've been insulted twice over, I though I might insert my idiotic thoughts:

If I were in the market for a TiVoHD right now, I would go with the upgrade program. What TiVo has to do to get me to buy from them is to get in the same ballpark as places like Amazon, and I consider $20-30 to be in the same ballpark (I'm obviously not a starving grad student or such!). What I get from ordering from TiVo is
1. A bit less hassle in the ordering process (no separate hardware and sub order).
2. Quick shipping; I've gotten TiVos the next day after ordering - not bad for free! (2-3 days is more normal).
3. Single point contact for problems - I just call up TiVo.
4. Dealing with TiVo customer support rather than Amazon, much preferable.
5. Warm fuzzy feeling for supporting TiVo rather than Amazon.

The first 3-4 TiVos I bought were from elsewhere. The 8+ I've gotten since have all been from TiVo, including several refurbed models. I get great support from TiVo; I don't know how much of that is due to buying direct from TiVo so they know the history of the TiVo.

Some of the deals I've gotten have been better than others; I think all my TiVo purchases have been some sort of a deal. I consider the upgrade offer to be a reasonable, not great, offer. I do agree the current refurb offers are poor for existing subscribers. The days of giving great refurb deals at the end of a quarter so TiVo can make their quarterly sales forecasts are now over, I suspect.

Having a long-lasting upgrade program for continuing customers (this has been around much longer than a typical TiVo "deal") to complement the refurb program for newcomers seems quite reasonable to me, and I'm glad they offer it. Certainly you would agree it's better than nothing?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> Since I've been insulted twice over, I though I might insert my idiotic thoughts:


Hopefully offered in humor! 



> If I were in the market for a TiVoHD right now, I would go with the upgrade program. What TiVo has to do to get me to buy from them is to get in the same ballpark as places like Amazon, and I consider $20-30 to be in the same ballpark (I'm obviously not a starving grad student or such!). What I get from ordering from TiVo is
> 1. A bit less hassle in the ordering process (no separate hardware and sub order).
> 2. Quick shipping; I've gotten TiVos the next day after ordering - not bad for free! (2-3 days is more normal).
> 3. Single point contact for problems - I just call up TiVo.
> ...


If I was in the market now I'd consider the upgrade offer. I've dealt with TiVo and they've provided good service and timely delivery. But so has Amazon. Since both offer free shipping I'd balance possible faster delivery against the price difference.

Once the service number for a brand-new unopened box TiVo is added to an account the seller makes no difference; the account holder deals only with TiVo regarding activation. Regarding other possible problems or HDD upgrades, the warranty is the same, whether it's used or violated.



> The first 3-4 TiVos I bought were from elsewhere. The 8+ I've gotten since have all been from TiVo, including several refurbed models. I get great support from TiVo; I don't know how much of that is due to buying direct from TiVo so they know the history of the TiVo.
> 
> Some of the deals I've gotten have been better than others; I think all my TiVo purchases have been some sort of a deal.


I've bought TiVos from various sources but never directly from TiVo. TiVo has always provided excellent support for them. I own seven TiVos with Lifetime Service plus two Toshibas with TiVo Basic. At present I'm using only two S3s and one Toshiba and have a Lifetimed HDTiVo (figuratively) gathering dust as well as three S2s, a (Grandfather eligible) S1, and the other Toshiba.

Instead of buying an HDTiVo XL, if I wanted more capacity it would make sense to upgrade the HDTiVo I already own to a TB HDD. It's already out of warranty in excellent+ condition.



> I consider the upgrade offer to be a reasonable, not great, offer. I do agree the current refurb offers are poor for existing subscribers. The days of giving great refurb deals at the end of a quarter so TiVo can make their quarterly sales forecasts are now over, I suspect.
> 
> Having a long-lasting upgrade program for continuing customers (this has been around much longer than a typical TiVo "deal") to complement the refurb program for newcomers seems quite reasonable to me, and I'm glad they offer it. Certainly you would agree it's better than nothing?


It's reasonable. But upon inspection it provides no incentive beyond what's already available to current TiVo customers.

At first glance I thought (hoped idiotically!) that the offer allowed the purchase of a brand-new warranteed 1 TB HDTiVo for $500 plus Lifetime TiVo Service for $100 less than the current price to MSD customers. That would have been an 'exclusive offer' to existing customers which gave me incentive to buy what I don't need.

I understand that business realities may keep the above fantasy in the looney bin, but if a better offer is impossible, it would be better if TiVo ballyhooed no 'exclusive offer' instead of an offer which offers nothing but hype, and instead quietly maintains their long-standing policies.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

fallingwater said:


> Hopefully offered in humor!


Somewhat. Why should I resent being called an idiot?

Look, you've been complaining about the upgrade program for over 3 months now, even going to the extent of starting new threads about it. I can understand you not being interested in it for yourself; that's fine. But you seem to be on a campaign to get TiVo to drop it, which adversely affects me and others who value different things than you do. It's a nice ongoing program that TiVo thinks is worth pushing, and it offers me an option that I wouldn't otherwise have. Why do you want to reduce my options?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> Why should I resent being called an idiot?


I didn't call you an idiot. Your buying TiVos from their website in accordance with ongoing policies has nothing to do with a TiVo customer responding to this specious offer, thinking they're getting a better deal than has already been available for existing customers or is better than any other available deal.



> ...you've been complaining about the upgrade program for over 3 months now, even going to the extent of starting new threads about it.


I started this thread about an 'exclusive offer' promo which insults TiVo's customers' intelligence.

Please follow up with your '3 months' assertion. TiVo's policies are what they are. TiVo has recently begun charging for certain Lifetime Service transfers for repaired TiVos over three years old (?) I believe, which has received comments and complaints at _*TCF*_, but not from me.



> I can understand you not being interested in it for yourself; that's fine. But you seem to be on a campaign to get TiVo to drop it, which adversely affects me and others who value different things than you do. It's a nice ongoing program that TiVo thinks is worth pushing, and it offers me an option that I wouldn't otherwise have. Why do you want to reduce my options?


This current 'exclusive offer' provides nothing which isn't already available to you or any other TiVo customer.

If I 'value different things than you do', that's what _*TCF*_, and (since your ID features a reference to fighting for it ) the American ideal of freedom itself is all about. :up::up::up:


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

fallingwater said:


> Please follow up with your '3 months' assertion. TiVo's policies are what they are. TiVo has recently begun charging for certain Lifetime Service transfers for repaired TiVos over three years old (?) I believe, which has received comments and complaints at _*TCF*_, but not from me.


For example, your post here, which is from over 3 months ago, you complaining about this same upgrade program?

There is at least one other thread as well that I saw.

Again, you're perfectly within your rights to not want to take advantage of it, but starting new threads to complain yet again, and then to say TiVo shouldn't be offering it because *you* don't want to take advantage of it, is anti-social.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> I started this thread about an 'exclusive offer' promo which insults TiVo's customers' intelligence.


it is just some marketing hype about a price point TiVo has set. I think you are making more out of it then need be as well.
Maybe since all of us get to FFwd/Skip TV commercials we think this kind of hype is not used all the time by all companies.
The smart thing would be to just ignore the ad.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> For example, your post here, which is from over 3 months ago, you complaining about this same upgrade program?
> 
> There is at least one other thread as well that I saw.
> 
> Again, you're perfectly within your rights to not want to take advantage of it, but starting new threads to complain yet again, and then to say TiVo shouldn't be offering it because *you* don't want to take advantage of it, is anti-social.


Thanks for the link. I almost never post in the _Help Center_ so missed reviewing that thread. When I received the recent email on Oct. 5 I didn't realize that it was referring to the same July 1 *Upgrade Program* announcement from TiVo Jerry. Upon reviewing the _Help Center_ thread I'm amazed that my comments there are almost identical to what I thought when receiving the recent email. Here's a review of a few of the posts there including TiVo Jerry's original description and my reaction at the time:



TiVoJerry said:


> With TiVoPony away from the office, I've been asked to pass along a quick explanation of a new and ongoing upgrade program we at TiVo are implementing to reward devoted TiVo customers.
> 
> Beginning July 1st, TiVo will begin providing unique offers to dedicated customers that have owned a TiVo DVR for at least one year and are ready to upgrade to an HD DVR. TiVo encourages customers to log onto their account through tivo.com as eligible customers can save $50 or more off of a new TiVo HD DVR.
> 
> ...





TiVoJerry said:


> The FAQ will be updated to say:
> 
> *Q:* Can customers with Product Lifetime Service on their current TiVo DVR participate in the TiVo DVR Upgrade Program?
> 
> ...





scandia101 said:


> Woohoo! MSD pricing when I'd be getting MSD pricing w/o any "special" offer. What a deal. It makes me feel so special.
> 
> and it get's better
> 
> They offer a convenient way to commit to another year and lose your $6.95 MSD rate if you have it.





yukit said:


> You & I may be loyal Tivo customers by opting for lifetime subscriptions, but from Tivo's perspective, we are a bunch of deadbeats after about 3 years.
> It would be nice if Tivo offered us "trade-in" just like they did for S1->S3. May be we will get our turn when they come out with S4 Tivo





fallingwater said:


> After reviewing this 'upgrade program' we might also be thought of as being soft-in-the-head after falling off a turnip truck!
> 
> If TiVo 'Lifetime' users are considered deadbeats, TiVo ought to discontinue offering Lifetime Service and let pricey Moxi go that route alone.





TiVoJerry said:


> Product Lifetime Service (PLS) is unique to TiVo. Currently, no other subscription service provider offers this payment structure, such as for your home phone, cell phones, cable, satellite radio, etc. It was introduced at the request of TiVo subscribers looking to avoid yet another monthly bill. We have heard from many customers that when calculating the equivalent monthly cost of their TiVo service over the time they have used their DVR that it has been great value.
> 
> In the past TiVo has offered product lifetime transfers on a promotional basis, however a PLS transfer is not currently available through our new upgrade program, as we are offering discounts on new TiVo hardware.
> 
> We appreciate all the comments we have and will receive on this new program. We take customer feedback very seriously in our attempt to create the best experience possible for our customers.





jksmith0011 said:


> Yes, I also found that the discounted "PLS" subs is $299......($399 - $100).
> And, the low-end DVR-HD discounted price is $99. So, my total for HD upgraded will be $398. (Well, I wouldn't hesitate to jump in to HD upgrade if the total cost would be $298.)
> 
> Under the current economics situation (we have right now), it is tough for everyone of to shell out $400 for a TiVo HD upgraded.
> ...





ZeoTiVo said:


> yep - that is exactly what I get as well. This is just 100$ off the TiVo HD, that is not really all that special at all.
> 
> PS - in my case if I upgrade my 4 year old Series 2 with lifetime - I have to pay 399$ for lifetime - WTF? that was more a slap in the face for wanting to 'upgrade' my 4 year old unit on this 'special' deal. This had NEGATIVE UMF for me.





ZeoTiVo said:


> well it is just not about the cheapest option for most of us with TiVo DVRs. However 500$ for a TiVo HD is really just the father's day special that anyone could have gotten.
> Add in the fact that if I 'upgraded' my 240 model with lifetime it would have cost me 600$ (due to 399$ for lifetime) and the deal did not seem put together all that well at all to reward me for having older TiVo DVRs. That was my complaint.
> If I actually needed a TiVo then 500$ for a lifetimed TiVo HD DVR presents a pretty good value...


Back to the present:



ZeoTiVo said:


> it is just some marketing hype about a price point TiVo has set. I think you are making more out of it then need be as well. Maybe since all of us get to FFwd/Skip TV commercials we think this kind of hype is not used all the time by all companies.
> The smart thing would be to just ignore the ad.


Perhaps. But, as you stated, it's marketing hype and doesn't offer the cheapest option currently availabe. Most people aren't idiots and do recognize hype. When TiVo sends hype emails it doesn't speak well for itself. Glad that TiVo Jerry asked for customer feedback and that the recent email caused me to react by starting this thread and providing precisely the feedback Jerry asked for! 
https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade.do
TiVo doesn't benefit from giving customers 'a slap in the face'.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

fallingwater said:


> Thanks for the link. I almost never post in the _Help Center_ so missed reviewing that thread. When I received the recent email on Oct. 5 I didn't realize that it was referring to the same July 1 *Upgrade Program* announcement from TiVo Jerry. Upon reviewing the _Help Center_ thread I'm amazed that my comments there are almost identical to what I thought when receiving the recent email.


Yes, you said all of this before. That's why I'm as perturbed as I am that you started a brand-new thread who's main purpose seems to be offering up exactly the same insults as you did before.

This is an *on-going* program, not a sale. How many manufacturers can you list that have an ongoing program that undercuts all of their retailers in price? Such a manufacturer would lose their retail partners pretty quickly. Your expectations are just completely unrealistic (should I use another word?). This is a reasonable, not great, deal, with substantial savings over TiVo's normal price. You're campaigning for TiVo to drop this offer and only give us the option of list price. I don't understand why.

I'm willing to pay at least a little bit extra to support a company like TiVo because I like how they do business, and how they support their customers. You're only concerned about the final bottom line. I can understand that, but similar attitudes are responsible for lack of customer support we see from so many modern companies - the companies don't see any purpose in good customer support since people won't reward them for it.

I'm fine that you have priorities other than what I have, and that you express them. I'm not fine that you consider it reasonable to insult anybody who has different priorities than you. (I'm becoming more strident because you're not backing off from your insults at all.)


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> ...you said all of this before. That's why I'm as perturbed as I am that you started a brand-new thread who's main purpose seems to be offering up exactly the same insults as you did before.
> 
> This is an *on-going* program, not a sale. How many manufacturers can you list that have an ongoing program that undercuts all of their retailers in price? Such a manufacturer would lose their retail partners pretty quickly. Your expectations are just completely unrealistic (should I use another word?). This is a reasonable, not great, deal, with substantial savings over TiVo's normal price. You're campaigning for TiVo to drop this offer and only give us the option of list price. I don't understand why.


I forgot all about the promotion until receiving the Oct. 6 email. Until you provided the link I didn't recognize the promo in the email as the same one discussed in the _Help Center_ thread. If I had I'd have posted an update there.

If TiVo hadn't sent the email this thread wouldn't exist. As _reneg_ suggested, I used the link on TiVo's upgrade page to provide them the customer feedback they asked for, and urge others, you included, to do the same.

We disagree, that's not unusual at TCF. What you choose to consider a personal insult (from me), I consider a(n undoubtedly unintended) general insult from TiVo to all its customers. Understand that I don't object to TiVo's pricing but rather to its pitch.

If TiVo chooses to sell HDTiVo XL's on its website to some existing customers for a lower than list price, that's their choice. (Apparently their offer excludes existing customers who only own HDTiVos of either flavor.) But anybody can buy one at Amazon for less than TiVo's website's best price.



> I'm willing to pay at least a little bit extra to support a company like TiVo because I like how they do business, and how they support their customers. You're only concerned about the final bottom line. I can understand that, but similar attitudes are responsible for lack of customer support we see from so many modern companies - the companies don't see any purpose in good customer support since people won't reward them for it.


More power to you! Although I disagree with you, I've no problem with your choice; for you.

I look at a deal on its own merits. Both TiVo's and Amazon's prices are credible.



> I'm fine that you have priorities other than what I have, and that you express them. I'm not fine that you consider it reasonable to insult anybody who has different priorities than you. (I'm becoming more strident because you're not backing off from your insults at all.)


Our disagreement is over who is insulting whom.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> Glad that TiVo Jerry asked for customer feedback and that the recent email caused me to react by starting this thread and providing precisely the feedback Jerry asked for!
> https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade.do
> TiVo doesn't benefit from giving customers 'a slap in the face'.


he said Customer feedback was useful, not that he needed yet more threads on the same topic.
So I stated my opinion once - which does agree with yours and even though I agree with your opinion I also think the email is just marketing hype and does not merit a whole new thread. Now you are just beating your agenda versus taking the Tivo community forum into account


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

As I stated a couple of times in previous posts, had I recognized the Oct. 5 email from TiVo as part of the same offer which spurred the 3+ month old _Help Center_ thread I'd have posted an update there. But this horse was already out of the barn awhile until, thanks to _Crispy Critter_, I realized the email referred to that offer. Whether this new thread was warranted, it's here.

---
There are threads about innumerable topics all over _TCF_. Each has an agenda. An agenda is neither good nor bad, nor is disagreeing with one. Judging from your posts, you agree more than disagree with this one. If that's true why continue to update this thread and prolong the part you disagree with?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)




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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


>


So who is paying for the next 5 minutes...


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

http://touritaly.org/tours/Tuscany/Pisa/TowerOfPisa001.jpg

They just installed a clock on the Leaning Tower of Pisa. What good's the inclination if you haven't got the time?


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