# Getting around Tivo's restrictive Mini rules with a Roameo plus/pro



## Newbie59 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hi guys, new poster here, a search didn't turn anything up, but here's a question I have:

The Tivo DVRs are essentially specially programmed computers with a tuner card. I've already got a PC with a 5ghz N wireless connection hooked up to everywhere I'd like to get a TV signal, and getting it there Tivo's way would require me running wires in my rental apartment, and spending $450 on minis. Is there any way to get the Roamio plus or pro to stream to the computers? It will be wired up directly into my router, and 5ghz is completely unused in my area, so I should have more than enough bandwidth to stream 1080p.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Short answer - no..

Mini's can operate using either Ethernet or Moca and retail for $150 each.

$450? You need 3 mini's?


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

* Some people have gotten "streaming" to computers using the TivoToGo protocol. I don't think anyone made a UI for it though, so it might be considered user unfriendly.

No live TV of course as well.

* SiliconDust has a good product for streaming to PC's of live TV. But then there's no DVR except what you run on the PC's.

* Simple.TV and Tablo are DVR's built for streaming, but then there's no CableCard.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

You could try to use a wireless to Ethernet adapter connected to minis if you think it will sustain the connection and bandwidth?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I should mention there is a rumor tivo is working on a Roku app... Just a rumor though...


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

What about streaming to a smartphone or tablet and using the an HDMI connector to the TV?


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## Newbie59 (Sep 30, 2014)

waynomo said:


> What about streaming to a smartphone or tablet and using the an HDMI connector to the TV?


that's one of the things I was thinking of as a backup, but it seems clunky, and I don't have that many spare android devices with that functionality. (only one currently)



bradleys said:


> Short answer - no..
> 
> Mini's can operate using either Ethernet or Moca and retail for $150 each.
> 
> $450? You need 3 mini's?


3 bedrooms, so yup.


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

If you have coax in the walls already, get minis and use moca?


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

The soon to be released "Android TV" in connection with a TiVo Stream or six tuner Roamio may potentially be a solution to your dilemma. That is if the Android TiVo App can be installed and works on it also


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

It would be a clunky solution but you could try installing the Bluestacks App Player (bluestacks.com) on each PC, that will then allow you to install the Tivo Android app on your PCs, then use the app to stream to the tvs. As the Tivo Android app was designed for a touch interface, you may run into some issues and will likely need to use a mouse and/or keyboard to navigate, but it might work. Again, would likely be a very clunky solution if it works at all.

My advice though is just to bite the bullet if you can and get the minis and connect them through MoCa. Several places have them for $140 right now (I know, not much of a discount) but I imagine some store (if not Tivo themselves) will have them at a significant discount for Black Friday.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Marty1781 said:


> Several places have them for $140 right now


You can get them for $132 right now on Amazon.


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> You can get them for $132 right now on Amazon.


Great! They must have recently just dropped the price from $140 within the past couple of days. I was fortunate enough to get 5 of them for $85 each (I know some got them for even less!) back when Tivo changed the pricing structure about a month or so ago.


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## Newbie59 (Sep 30, 2014)

The rooms are currently wired for satellite, so MOCA is an option, but it would be a giant PITA, since I'd have to figure out how to splice it into the cable system (I currently have cable for internet) and all the connections are on the roof, and the super limits roof access. I guess this answers my other question though, no reason to get a Roamio plus, just get a regular one and upgrade the HDD, since the extra two tuners and streaming to mobile devices aren't important to me. (No cell service on the subway)


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

If you're planning to use minis, the 2 extra tuners with the plus and pro might come in handy. Each mini uses one tuner. So if you're using 2 minis at one time you'd only have 2 tuners available for recording with a Roamio Basic. Food for thought. You can better evaluate your needs.


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## Newbie59 (Sep 30, 2014)

waynomo said:


> If you're planning to use minis, the 2 extra tuners with the plus and pro might come in handy. Each mini uses one tuner. So if you're using 2 minis at one time you'd only have 2 tuners available for recording with a Roamio Basic. Food for thought. You can better evaluate your needs.


I assume that is if both minis are on at the time. I expect that we will rarely have more than two people watching TV at any given time, since most of us are out of the apartment most of the time.


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

Newbie59 said:


> The rooms are currently wired for satellite, so MOCA is an option, but it would be a giant PITA, since I'd have to figure out how to splice it into the cable system (I currently have cable for internet) and all the connections are on the roof, and the super limits roof access. I guess this answers my other question though, no reason to get a Roamio plus, just get a regular one and upgrade the HDD, since the extra two tuners and streaming to mobile devices aren't important to me. (No cell service on the subway)


Keep in mind the Roamio also has a builtin MoCa adapter which will save you from having to purchase one separately ($50 +tax/shipping at tivo.com). You shouldn't have to splice into anything. The way MoCa works is you just simply plug it into any open coax jack and that creates the MoCa network over all the connected coax cabling. You don't have to plug it in at the source either, again, any open connection will work.

So in your case, simply plug the Roamio into the coax jack wherever you want (bedroom, etc), plug in ethernet (or, while not recommended, a wireless N/AC bridge that wirelessly connects to your router), tell the Roamio to create the MoCa network, then all the Minis will have access to the Roamio.

You will want to install a POE filter, however, at the point where the coax enters your apartment so that other tenants in the building will not be able to access your MoCa network. If installing the filter is not an option, I believe the Plus also has some security features when creating the MoCa network (encryption, etc) in order to secure your network.

I would highly recommend going with the Plus. It's just a more versatile box with higher resale value whenever you decide to sell it. If you wait until Black Friday, there are likely to be some great deals on it also.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

One thing to remember is that copy protected content will not be viewable using the minis. This may not be a big issue - no issue for live TV - however for stuff like Amazon downloads or recorded content that is copy protected, the mini will not be able to display it. I had to consider this fact for my setup, as the minis might otherwise have been more useful in additional places than they are currently.


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## magicspell (Jan 10, 2013)

wmhjr said:


> One thing to remember is that copy protected content will not be viewable using the minis. This may not be a big issue - no issue for live TV - however for stuff like Amazon downloads or recorded content that is copy protected, the mini will not be able to display it.


Are you sure this is true? I thought the TiVo could "stream" anything to another TiVo on the same network. It just can't "move" it to another TiVo/device (like a PC, etc). Since the mini is only streaming the content from the host TiVo it should be able to play copy protected content.

What am I missing?


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

wmhjr said:


> One thing to remember is that copy protected content will not be viewable using the minis. This may not be a big issue - no issue for live TV - however for stuff like Amazon downloads or recorded content that is copy protected, the mini will not be able to display it. I had to consider this fact for my setup, as the minis might otherwise have been more useful in additional places than they are currently.


I can't speak to things like Amazon downloads simply because I haven't tried it but copy-protected content (whether live or recorded) such as HBO is definitely viewable on the Minis. No issue there.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> One thing to remember is that copy protected content will not be viewable using the minis. This may not be a big issue - no issue for live TV - however for stuff like Amazon downloads or recorded content that is copy protected, the mini will not be able to display it. I had to consider this fact for my setup, as the minis might otherwise have been more useful in additional places than they are currently.


Not true, in fact this is why the mini excels, it can play copy protected cable content in place via streaming.


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## Craig in PA (Mar 9, 2013)

Simple answer: Get a slingbox and hook it up to the TiVo's component outputs. Stream to any computer or tablet, within wifi range or with any other internet connection.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> Not true, in fact this is why the mini excels, it can play copy protected cable content in place via streaming.


Not true. Try downloading an Amazon title (Amazon Instant Download). At least on MY units (both minis) you get a red X next to them if you select them in "My Shows" or whatever. If you try to play them you get the message about can't do it. I've had minis since within a few weeks of them coming out.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

magicspell said:


> Are you sure this is true? I thought the TiVo could "stream" anything to another TiVo on the same network. It just can't "move" it to another TiVo/device (like a PC, etc). Since the mini is only streaming the content from the host TiVo it should be able to play copy protected content.
> 
> What am I missing?


That is absolutely not true. I cannot speak to which protected content is prohibited and which is not conclusively, but know for absolute certainty about Amazon downloads to start with.

If you somehow get an Amazon download to work properly to let's say "Roamio Pro #1", you can ONLY view that content on the display natively connected to "Roamio #1" - even if you have another Roamio Pro and two minis as well as perhaps a Premier (which is exactly my home scenario) on the same network in the same home.

I "Can" successfully, however, play HBO content, etc. There have been a few items of content that would not play, but mainly it has been Amazon. I make the point because I've rapidly over the past year moved away from playing "other" content through the Tivos because of some pretty poor reliability in that regard, and have moved to Roku and other devices for that stuff. So, while I know for absolute certainty that this applies to Amazon Instant Downloads, I don't know for sure what other types of content it might apply to.

And, for the record, I have confirmed this at least 30 times. Most recently, about a month ago. I can't speak for anything more recent, but in direct discussions with both Tivo and Amazon (who also confirmed this - both of them) there was no sign of this changing.

If you are "streaming" content (not currently available on Tivo, but rumor has it that the streaming vs download might be coming) then the minis may overcome this limitation. But I'm speaking of what they are, right this very instant.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Not true, in fact this is why the mini excels, it can play *copy protected cable content* in place via streaming.





wmhjr said:


> Not true. Try downloading an Amazon title (Amazon Instant Download). At least on MY units (both minis) you get a red X next to them if you select them in "My Shows" or whatever. If you try to play them you get the message about can't do it. I've had minis since within a few weeks of them coming out.


Amazon content is not cable, but when Prime streaming is up on the Mini you can watch there.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> Amazon content is not cable, but when Prime streaming is up on the Mini you can watch there.


And where exactly did I specify "cable content"? What I said was completely correct. Your statement of "not true, this is why the mini excels" was in fact incorrect.

And as I said, there has been other content beyond Amazon that at least I got the "Red X" and was not able to view on either the mini, or on other Roamios beyond the one that the content was saved on.

Given the terrible reliability and performance of Amazon I and some others have had, and given the very poor stream performance, I already gave up on that set of features/functions from the Tivo and have found alternative devices that simply do it better and more reliably. I'm not holding my breath for the new Amazon app, and at this point won't use it. No point in revisiting frustrating scenarios when I've already had to move on to find solutions that simply work. All of the time. On Wifi even.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> One thing to remember is that copy protected content will not be viewable using the minis. This may not be a big issue - no issue for live TV - however for stuff like Amazon downloads* or recorded content that is copy protected, the mini will not be able to display it.* I had to consider this fact for my setup, as the minis might otherwise have been more useful in additional places than they are currently.





wmhjr said:


> And where exactly did I specify "cable content"? What I said was completely correct. Your statement of "not true, this is why the mini excels" was in fact incorrect.


You can't RECORD content on a Tivo that is not cable, you mentioned it, I corrected you correctly.

The Amazon downloaded content is a rarity for most Tivo users, your sweeping statement was in error, I simply corrected the inaccurate aspect of it for the other participants in the thread.

The Mini excels as a device to play back cable recorded content of ANY status remotely in another room without being another Tivo, that's why they built and designed it.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> You can't RECORD content on a Tivo that is not cable, you mentioned it, I corrected you correctly.
> 
> The Amazon downloaded content is a rarity for most Tivo users, your sweeping statement was in error, I simply corrected the inaccurate aspect of it for the other participants in the thread.
> 
> The Mini excels as a device to play back cable recorded content of ANY status remotely in another room without being another Tivo, that's why they built and designed it.


dianebrat, you're simply amazing. You can spin words until the world ends, but you were incorrect - period. End of story. I explicitly stated SOME of the content that cannot be viewed.

The mini does not "excel" as a device. It fills a need, and works reasonably well. It is subject to some pretty harsh restrictions (such as no WiFi) as compared to some other solutions. It is susceptible to audio sync issues. However, it does work - and not with ANY status of "recorded" content. The fact that you choose to restrict the word "recorded" to mean only that coming through the cable card is simply another example not looking at current viewing options - which include IP delivered content. BTW, that content is "recorded" from a mechanical perspective just the same as downloaded content.

To the contrary, you're over generalization that the mini can do "anything" is exactly what misleads potential customers. I neither love, nor hate, my two minis. They work "OK". Their main advantage is simply cost to be honest, and that is purely due to the reduced Tivo cost - not anything else. Since they require either a MoCa or Ethernet connection and consume tuners from existing Roamios, they are effectively only offsetting Tivo service fees. It does not have optical out, as compared for example to Amazon Fire TV. Tivo built the device because frankly, Tivos are per unit very expensive, and they needed to compete with the growing solution sets provided by the MSOs, which provided this functionality at a lower cost.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> dianebrat, you're simply amazing. You can spin words until the world ends, but you were incorrect - period. End of story. I explicitly stated SOME of the content that cannot be viewed.


and of the 2 items you listed 1 was wrong, thus my digging my heels in as you insist I'm "spinning words"
We disagree about the mini, but that doesn't make you correct about the statement I corrected you on.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> and of the 2 items you listed 1 was wrong, thus my digging my heels in as you insist I'm "spinning words"
> We disagree about the mini, but that doesn't make you correct about the statement I corrected you on.


Diane, could you please point me to the IEEE standard definition of "recording" which means it is restricted to only comment coming from Cable?

I'll wait.... I think it's gonna be a pretty long wait.... Until you come up with that, your generalization is patently incorrect.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Are you serious? You are arguing that a download/file transfer is the same thing as a recording from a source broadcast?


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Holy crap it is so much easier to just say "Yeah, I should have said 'recorded or downloaded'" than it is to argue the definition of the word "record."

Unreal.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

jrtroo said:


> Are you serious? You are arguing that a download/file transfer is the same thing as a recording from a source broadcast?


With respect to the topic, yes I am. At the end of the day, it is recorded content that is hosted on the Roamio/Pro, with somebody attempting to view it through a mini. "Download" vs "Record" only (if anything) has to do with how it got there. There may - or may not - be differences in the content formatting. Please note that in MY post that dianebrat keeps pointing to, I never, ever specified "source broadcast".


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Grakthis said:


> Holy crap it is so much easier to just say "Yeah, I should have said 'recorded or downloaded'" than it is to argue the definition of the word "record."
> 
> Unreal.


No, not unreal. I was specifically trying NOT to explicitly either include or exclude ANYTHING other than what I was clear about not being capable. Dianebrat doesn't seen to like admissions that there are limitations to what the mini "excels" at, and was trying to nitpick. I was clear about exactly what I knew was not possible, what I had experienced but had little knowledge of, so others could draw their own conclusions or thoughts - as well as tests if that was felt to be necessary.

So many people defensive of tivo.......


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## elborak (Jul 15, 2014)

Grakthis said:


> Holy crap it is so much easier to just say "Yeah, I should have said 'recorded or downloaded'" than it is to argue the definition of the word "record."


For him, apparently it is. Stroking his own ego by never admitting he was less than 100% clear seems to be far more important than actually learning to communicate effectively.

If the majority of the readers of your remarks interpret something in a different way than you intended, it's obvious you did a poor job of expressing yourself. Seems simple, and is to most, but apparently not to all.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

wmhjr said:


> One thing to remember is that *copy protected content will not be viewable using the minis.* This may not be a big issue - no issue for live TV - however for stuff like Amazon downloads or *recorded content that is copy protected*, the mini will not be able to display it. I had to consider this fact for my setup, as the minis might otherwise have been more useful in additional places than they are currently.


Wmhjr - honestly dude, they way you stated that was very clear to anyone reading it. You insinuated that recorded copy protected content could not be viewed on the Mini - and while it is true for the Stream, it is not true for the mini. The *only *thing that is available on the Roamio that is not directly available in the Mini is the legacy Amazon content and that is being replaced by a new streaming app.

backtracking and saying you were just referencing a dead app - is ludicrous.

Admit that you made a mistake and move on.

Even if we take you at face value - your statement was poorly worded, confusing and VERY misleading...


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

You can disagree all you want. Please read my post more carefully. I attempted to even provide clarification, and clearly stated that I knew of some (which included Amazon) but could not confirm others. My first statement was not worded as well as I should have worded it, and I tried clarification about EXACTLY what I was speaking of. 

Second, I HAVE had non-Amazon content that could/would not be played via the mini from either of my Roamio Pros. I just get tired of hearing justification such as how it "excels" and how using Amazon is a "rarity" - even though it is a published, and marketed feature which Tivo frankly does not provide clarity to potential customers prior to purchase.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

wmhjr said:


> Second, I HAVE had non-Amazon content that could/would not be played via the mini from either of my Roamio Pros. I just get tired of hearing justification such as how it "excels" and how using Amazon is a "rarity" - even though it is a published, and marketed feature which Tivo frankly does not provide clarity to potential customers prior to purchase.


That Amazon app has been removed from all new devices and will be permanently removed from all Raomio line DVR's soon - I suspect before the end of the year. So it would be inconceivable to base your purchasing decision on a dead application.

If you personally have had other protected content fail to stream on the Mini - you need to file a ticket with TiVo.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt your statement is at best misleading because that is a pretty definitive statement.

"...recorded content that is copy protected, the mini will not be able to display it."


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

wmhjr said:


> You can disagree all you want. Please read my post more carefully.


That would be a waste of everyone's time. No one should read your posts any more than they absolutely have to, to navigate the thread.


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

Newbie59 said:


> Hi guys, new poster here, a search didn't turn anything up, but here's a question I have:
> 
> The Tivo DVRs are essentially specially programmed computers with a tuner card. I've already got a PC with a 5ghz N wireless connection hooked up to everywhere I'd like to get a TV signal, and getting it there Tivo's way would require me running wires in my rental apartment, and spending $450 on minis. Is there any way to get the Roamio plus or pro to stream to the computers? It will be wired up directly into my router, and 5ghz is completely unused in my area, so I should have more than enough bandwidth to stream 1080p.


You prolly want the Roamio itself to be on a wired cnnct. But the minis will work just fine on wireless. I have one Mini connected via a Tivo Wireless N adapter on 5GHz. And the other mini connected via an old WAP54G running OpenWRT. The wireless N one took a few tries to find my Premiere DVR (though the network itself for d/l'ing updates just worked). The WAP54G one just worked.

I am seeing equal performance w my minis to those I know w Minis on wired. However, I have a very strong wireless signal in the two Mini locations.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Newbie59 said:


> The rooms are currently wired for satellite, so MOCA is an option, but it would be a giant PITA, since I'd have to figure out how to splice it into the cable system (I currently have cable for internet) and all the connections are on the roof, and the super limits roof access. I guess this answers my other question though, no reason to get a Roamio plus, just get a regular one and upgrade the HDD, since the extra two tuners and streaming to mobile devices aren't important to me. (No cell service on the subway)


If your satellite system in NOT a Dish Hopper nor a DirecTV Genie nor are you using DirecTV B Band, you can use MoCA because the satellite Intermediate Frequency for is above the band used by MoCA. This means you can send MoCA using the same cables that to the rooms where you have satellite cables running. However, both Dish Hopper and DirecTV Genies use the MoCA for those systems.


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