# OTA activated on the HR20 West Coast



## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

OTA has been activated on the West Coast

See dbstalk


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Let the next batch of troubles begin!


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## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

Markman07 said:


> Let the next batch of troubles begin!


OK, sarcasm aside but I would like add, (while trying not to turn this into a comparison thread) that in the last month, I've been lucky I guess--The HR20 has done everything I wanted without a problem.

I needed to reboot once because the captions stopped working. In that time, I've had 2 shortened recording with the HR10 from NBC OTA and ADOS (audio drop out syndrome) from FOX OTA.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Markman07 said:


> Let the next batch of troubles begin!


Yes, let them begin because DTV is fully engaged with this thing. Bring on the problems while they are working on it. The solutions will come quick.

Waiting for a TiVo update is like watching paint dry. If there are OTA issues, do you think they'll be fixed before or after the audio dropouts from OTA on the HR10?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Billy66 said:


> Yes, let them begin because DTV is fully engaged with this thing. Bring on the problems while they are working on it. The solutions will come quick.
> 
> Waiting for a TiVo update is like watching paint dry. If there are OTA issues, do you think they'll be fixed before or after the audio dropouts from OTA on the HR10?


Actually it's more of a double standard.

NDS rolls out updates weekly, obviously with little testing. But TiVo's updates have to be thoroughly tested for months before DirecTV even considers the idea of releasing them.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

True Doug, but TiVo SA updates are also few and far between and DTV isn't handcuffing that effort. Couldn't it just be that TiVo is slow?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Slow is a relative term. The NDS guys are focusing all their effort on a single thing. The Tivo guys are working on S3, HR10, ..., the list goes on and on and on. 

I don't see how Tivo can keep up when NDS can throw double the dollars\engineers at the problem that Tivo can, year after year if they chose to do that.

I hate to say it but the reliability of the HR10 seems to be going down with each recent release while the HR20 seems to be going up with each release.


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## jbradway (Sep 30, 2001)

mikeny said:


> OK, sarcasm aside but I would like add, (while trying not to turn this into a comparison thread) that in the last month, I've been lucky I guess--The HR20 has done everything I wanted without a problem.
> 
> I needed to reboot once because the captions stopped working. In that time, I've had 2 shortened recording with the HR10 from NBC OTA and ADOS (audio drop out syndrome) from FOX OTA.


I guess I must be lucky as well. I've had more problems with the HR10 recently than I have had with the HR20. I've been running them parallel and noticed that the HR10 has been starting my shows about 1 minute later than the HR20. I had to reboot the HR10 twice in the last two weeks. Just like some people have no HR10 problems and some do, the same applies to the HR20.


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## merlin803 (Dec 11, 2005)

jbradway said:


> I guess I must be lucky as well. I've had more problems with the HR10 recently than I have had with the HR20. I've been running them parallel and noticed that the HR10 has been starting my shows about 1 minute later than the HR20. I had to reboot the HR10 twice in the last two weeks. Just like some people have no HR10 problems and some do, the same applies to the HR20.


Count me as lucky also I guess. I am getting ready to sell the HR10 and use my HR20 exclusively.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Initially, the HR20 recorded less than half of the shows that we actually had scheduled. Now, it only misses about 25%.

I have a problem with a DVR that records "most of the time." 

Inevitably, it always seems to miss the most important of the shows we want recorded (which is why the HR10 is used as our main unit).


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Murphy's law says it will always be that way good Sir. 

I'm glad things are performing better??

Your experience would not have been suitable for me to switch either. I hope you continue to halve your failure rate until it is measurably gone.

I see you trying so your compliments and complaints hold more weight. Good luck man.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Billy66 said:


> Yes, let them begin because DTV is fully engaged with this thing. Bring on the problems while they are working on it. The solutions will come quick.


 Given some people's experience with the R15 there's good reason to question that.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Well, I _want _ it to work since it _is_ our inevitable future......



And yes, it's getting _closer_ to being perfect, but I'd still not give it the 'ready for prime-time' moniker yet. But to be fair, I didn't expect it to be at this time either. I'll give it another 3 months.



Billy66 said:


> Murphy's law says it will always be that way good Sir.
> 
> I'm glad things are performing better??
> 
> ...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Why is this thread even posted here?? Unless activating OTA turns it into a TiVo...


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> Given some people's experience with the R15 there's good reason to question that.


They seem to be clearly more engaged with this product than the R15. I do agree though, there is plenty of reason to have questions and/or doubts.



> And yes, it's getting closer to being perfect, but I'd still not give it the 'ready for prime-time' moniker yet. But to be fair, I didn't expect it to be at this time either. I'll give it another 3 months.


I was also more than mildly surprised. My expectations, although not gloom, were surely cautious.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Actually it's more of a double standard.
> 
> NDS rolls out updates weekly, obviously with little testing. But TiVo's updates have to be thoroughly tested for months before DirecTV even considers the idea of releasing them.


Well, as much as I like my TiVo, the last update for teh hr10-250 is not exactly somehting anyone should be proud to say was tested extensively.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Why is this thread even posted here??


For speculative and comparative purposes?

Because Rupert Murdoch just agreed in principle to sell his shares of DirecTV to Liberty Media, potentially opening the door for the new owners of DirecTV to re-examine the strengths and weaknesses of the NDS software and maybe even renegotiate contracts with TiVo, possibly leading to efforts to port the TiVo software to the HR20 MPEG4 platform?

Because we're just curious?

Because we think, therefore we are?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Because Rupert Murdoch just agreed in principle to sell his shares of DirecTV to Liberty Media,_ potentially opening the door for the new owners of DirecTV to re-examine the strengths and weaknesses of the NDS software and maybe even renegotiate contracts with TiVo,_ possibly leading to efforts to port the TiVo software to the HR20 MPEG4 platform?


Although IMO the chances of a D* MPEG4 TiVO platform are zero, if they offered it I'd even be willing to pay an additional monthly fee rather than stick with the HR20 (yes, dual buffers are that important to me).

But we'll never get that opportunity.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Actually it's more of a double standard.
> 
> NDS rolls out updates weekly, obviously with little testing. But TiVo's updates have to be thoroughly tested for months before DirecTV even considers the idea of releasing them.


Doug, you burried the lead.

All you say is perfectly true, but the story here is that it is ALWAYs much better to fully vet a software release than to blindly shoot from the hip. Ask anyone who ever had both Tivo and a DISH PVR, and they will certainly agree.

Tivo has a reputation (at least until 6.3) of never breaking features or performance in an up rev. Consequently, you don't see a lot of damage control, specifically because it is rarely needed, or a lot of releases of any kind, because the features that really count were already there by v2.0. On the other hand a flurry of regular updates is always either a game of vaporware catchup, or a sure sign of flop-sweat surrounding a previous pooch-screwing.

Tivo must past muster at one more level (DTV) for a DTivo than for a SA, but they have always taken the much wiser and saner path for up revs, regardless of the hurdles presented by DTV.


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## jash69 (Feb 25, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> Why is this thread even posted here?? Unless activating OTA turns it into a TiVo...


because as soon as the ota enabled hr20 that's at least as stable as the hr10 hits the mass market, which i hear is in the next 30 days via multiple shipments to all retail and dealer markets, the hr10 is dead and so is tivo


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jash69 said:


> because as soon as the ota enabled hr20 that's at least as stable as the hr10 hits the mass market, which i hear is in the next 30 days via multiple shipments to all retail and dealer markets, the hr10 is dead and so is tivo


I laugh at your 30 days.

I laugh at your claim the HR10 is dead.

I even laugh at your claim that TiVo is/will be dead.

Even right now, there's still a good 9 months or so before there's any national MPEG4 content -- and even then it'll be debatable if it's must-have content. Anyone who can get their local stations OTA is simply better off getting them that way no matter what -- MPEG2 or MPEG4 DirecTV, because OTA is better quality, if you can receive it. The HR10 is long from being dead.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

jash69 said:


> because as soon as the ota enabled hr20 that's at least as stable as the hr10 hits the mass market, which i hear is in the next 30 days via multiple shipments to all retail and dealer markets, the hr10 is dead and so is tivo


I'm enjoying my HR20 more than most TiVo converts and even I think this is laughable. I understand you wanting to take a poke at Adam115, but this is crazy. The HR10 is a great unit and the motivation to switch (MPEG4)isn't nearly great enough.

Leave Adam alone, he wants you to make it personal so the thread gets closed. This one makes him uncomfortable.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> I'm enjoying my HR20 more than most TiVo converts and even I think this is laughable. I understand you wanting to take a poke at Adam115, but this is crazy. The HR10 is a great unit and the motivation to switch (MPEG4)isn't nearly great enough.
> 
> Leave Adam alone, he wants you to make it personal so the thread gets closed. This one makes him uncomfortable.


What is this for..? I just wondered why it was here because it wasn't a tivo, people answered.

I didn't say anything bad about the HR20... I hope they work out the kinks, I'm glad OTA got enabled, for me I wanted TiVo. No big deal... to each their own...


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Sounds like the HR20 only has one issue left - no dual channel buffers. Get this fixed and I would be willing to upgrade one of my ST Tivos to the HR20.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

coachO said:


> Sounds like the HR20 only has one issue left - no dual channel buffers. Get this fixed and I would be willing to upgrade one of my ST Tivos to the HR20.


Based on an earlier post in this very thread (quoted below), I would think that failing to record 25% of scheduled shows is a pretty big issue that still needs to be fixed. The only time my HR10 has NOT recorded a scheduled show is when I lost power.



Sir_whinealot said:


> Initially, the HR20 recorded less than half of the shows that we actually had scheduled. Now, it only misses about 25%.
> 
> I have a problem with a DVR that records "most of the time."
> 
> Inevitably, it always seems to miss the most important of the shows we want recorded (which is why the HR10 is used as our main unit).


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

coachO said:


> Sounds like the HR20 only has one issue left


And no Suggestions; ignoring a certain sparseness with wishlist-like capabilities.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> The Tivo guys are working on S3, HR10, ..., the list goes on and on and on.


LOL. How about listing exactly what 'on and on and on' is? Yeah, I didn't think so.


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## alwayscool (May 10, 2005)

Just curious... I thought NY wast on the EAST Coast.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

alwayscool said:


> Just curious... I thought NY wast on the EAST Coast.


Yes, NY *ist* on the East Coast. Not sure what point you were trying to make or if you were replying to a specific post ...


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

dswallow said:


> And no Suggestions


It was nice not having to shut that off.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dual tuners are a biggie missing on the HR20.

The next big problem (other than stability) is the lack of a Channels I Receive list. Searches and things wind up finding three stations for the same "station" (Analog SAT, Digital OTA, Digital SAT).


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

bidger said:


> It was nice not having to shut that off.


I thought it was nice that the HR10 had suggestions, and it was nice that I had the option to turn them off (which I did).


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Dual tuners are a biggie missing on the HR20.
> 
> The next big problem (other than stability) is the lack of a Channels I Receive list. Searches and things wind up finding three stations for the same "station" (Analog SAT, Digital OTA, Digital SAT).


Hopefully the initial bug in the CIR list gets fixed, but you can do it by manually setting up a favorites list Tony. I know that stinks, but it's how you would have to do it with a DTiVo anyway.

Dual buffers (I know you mean buffers not tuners) is really clamored for. I'm ok on that front, but it's a much bigger deal than I ever thought. I'd like them, but I'm not certain DTV intends to give them to us. By that I mean I don't know that they are even working on that feature. 

The 25% failure rate is one person's experience, not everyone's, but truthfully whatever the rate is, it's a bit high to me. I won't proclaim the TiVo perfect, but missed (or recorded and deleted) programs are what I would call an "unmeasurable" level. The HR20 still has some of that.

Suggestions, well hopefully in the end, that's what it comes down to. If you want suggestions you go with TiVo, if they aren't important, you don't.

The competitive gap between theses units hasn't reached the point where Suggestions are the deciding factor for most. Hopefully soon.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> TonyD79 said:
> 
> 
> > Dual tuners are a biggie missing on the HR20.
> ...


Unless Favorites work differently on the HR20, I don't think setting up Favorites would help Tony's problem. As it is, your last sentence is incorrect regarding Favorites on TiVo.

On the TiVo platform, searches (wishlists, suggestions, upcoming recordings, etc.) are limited to only those channels marked in the "Channels I Receive List". The only affect "Favorites" has on the TiVo platform is to limit the number of channels currently appearing the Guide - it doesn't affect which channels are used for searches or recording season passes.

Tony's problem seems to be that the HR20 doesn't include that type of limitation, so he's getting search results on channels he may not want.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

That is correct. Currently searches incorrectly search and find programs on *all* channels, even those you don't receive. The main problem is that you don't have a choice to limit the search via your currently selected favorite list. That is a bug or an oversight. I'd think it would have been fixed a couple months ago but the stability issues obviously took over and they needed to fix those first. Once OTA is out of the way hopefully they can address this. They already addressed a major oversight: not enough info in the history as to why something didn't record.

RE: Suggestions. Tivo patent. You'll have to have a Tivo to have it. It was the first thing I did with a new Tivo, disable it, so I'm not upset about it. 

As for % of recording correctly, I'll just add that it's been 99.9% for me. In over 3 months I have only missed one recording due to the "partial" bug which seems to be fixed now (at least I haven't seen it in over a month now).

I would say for the vast majority the HR20 is now very solid. Yes, there are some that have problems. But then just one look around this very forum or in the Series 3 forum will find numerous posts about recording and other issues with the HR10 and S3. If I didn't know any better I would think both were a buggy pile...but I know better. Same on the HR20. Some are having issues there is no doubt, but it's gotten a lot better recently and overall it's very solid.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Unless Favorites work differently on the HR20, I don't think setting up Favorites would help Tony's problem. As it is, your last sentence is incorrect regarding Favorites on TiVo.
> 
> On the TiVo platform, searches (wishlists, suggestions, upcoming recordings, etc.) are limited to only those channels marked in the "Channels I Receive List". The only affect "Favorites" has on the TiVo platform is to limit the number of channels currently appearing the Guide - it doesn't affect which channels are used for searches or recording season passes.
> 
> Tony's problem seems to be that the HR20 doesn't include that type of limitation, so he's getting search results on channels he may not want.


I stand corrected on the extent of the search bug. I was under the impression that setting your favorites corrected that on the HR20.

I think you misunderstood my comparison to TiVo. I surely understand how TiVo works. I only meant that setting up a favorites on the HR20 is the same work you would have to do on any DTivo setting up the CIR list. The confusion was caused by *my* misunderstanding of the effects the fav list would have on the search bug.(the HR20 search bug)


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Based on an earlier post in this very thread (quoted below), I would think that failing to record 25% of scheduled shows is a pretty big issue that still needs to be fixed. The only time my HR10 has NOT recorded a scheduled show is when I lost power.


Based on other posts in other threads, I would think that Tivo having audio dropouts 100% of the time of scheduled shows is a pretty big issue that still needs to be fixed.

The point is - as already posted in this thread, there are many if not most HR20 users who are not having any serious problems on a 4 month old product. And yet Tivo STILL has serious issues after 7 years of production/experience/revisions.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> Based on other posts in other threads, I would think that Tivo having audio dropouts 100% of the time of scheduled shows is a pretty big issue that still needs to be fixed.


Don't you mean "audio dropouts 100% of the time [on] scheduled *OTA* shows"? I have no audio dropouts, but I do not record OTA. Regardless, yes - the OTA dropout issue does exist, and a fix is supposedly on the way.

However, my TiVos reliably record everything I tell it to, and I can't point to any serious issues that have impacted my enjoyment or use of these DVRs in the three years I've owned them.

I would much rather have a flawed recording 100% of the time (with a momentary audio drop being the flaw), than missed recordings 25% of the time.



> The point is - as already posted in this thread, there are many if not most HR20 users who are not having any serious problems on a 4 month old product. And yet Tivo STILL has serious issues after 7 years of production/experience/revisions.


I would guess that individual experience with the TiVo platform is just like that with the HR20: YMMV.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> Based on other posts in other threads, I would think that Tivo having audio dropouts 100% of the time of scheduled shows is a pretty big issue that still needs to be fixed.
> 
> The point is - as already posted in this thread, there are many if not most HR20 users who are not having any serious problems on a 4 month old product. And yet Tivo STILL has serious issues after 7 years of production/experience/revisions.


Not "TIVO", DirecTV's previous generation HD-DVR, which is POWERED BY TiVo.

You say "TiVo having audio dropouts 100% fo the time". My HD TiVo doesn't have audio dropouts.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> Not "TIVO", DirecTV's previous generation HD-DVR, which is POWERED BY TiVo.


Huh? 



Adam1115 said:


> You say "TiVo having audio dropouts 100% fo the time". My HD TiVo doesn't have audio dropouts.


Good for you. You must not record OTA. However, many people are having them. Did you you somehow miss all of the threads about it?

But in any case (as I stated in my original post), the point is that many HR20 owners are not having any problems either. But many of the Tivo lemmings would have everyone believe that every HR20 is having serious issues.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> Good for you. You must not record OTA. However, many people are having them. DDid you you somehow miss all of the threads about it?
> 
> But in any case (as I stated in my original post), the point is that many HR20 owners are not having any problems either. But many of the Tivo lemmings would have everyone believe that every HR20 is having serious issues.


No, I have a series 3 TiVo, which is also a HD-TiVo, and it records my OTA just fine. You lumped ALL TiVo's into this category. So 100% of TiVo's do NOT have this issue.



Mark Lopez said:


> I would think that Tivo having audio dropouts 100% of the time of scheduled shows is a pretty big issue that still needs to be fixed.


Only ONE DVR has this problem, and it is one manufactured by Hughes (DirecTV) running TiVo software.

MY HD-TiVo, a Series 3 works fine.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Actually, we have _no idea _ how many people are (or are not) having problems with their HR20's. The small percentage of those that post on these forums really aren't a true representation of Joe Consumer.

I feel for those that own an HR20 and don't read DBS though ...there is much information there that had I not had access to, I would've boxed up the unit and sent it back (or put it in the closet in hopes that the D* engineers could get it together).

What I found telling however, was on the numerous occasions that I called in to D* and was told by their reps "we're having a lot of trouble/problems with the unit" along with other negative inferences.

That right there tells me there are many out there who _are _ having problems.

An opinion.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Sir_whinealot said:


> What I found telling however, was on the numerous occasions that I called in to D* and was told by their reps "we're having a lot of trouble/problems with the unit" along with other negative inferences.


Contrast that with various times it seems problems with the HR10 or various SD DirecTV w/TiVo models have been widespread from reports here yet whenever someone called in about it DirecTV CSR's would always say "you were the first to call about it...".

If a problem is widespread enough to be on the radar of the average DirecTV CSR, that's something.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> No, I have a series 3 TiVo, which is also a HD-TiVo, and it records my OTA just fine. You lumped ALL TiVo's into this category. So 100% of TiVo's do NOT have this issue.


No Poison Channel bug for you?

On any case, this is a DirecTv HDTV TiVo forum, so Mark's assumption isn't too far a field.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> No Poison Channel bug for you?
> 
> On any case, this is a DirecTv HDTV TiVo forum, so Mark's assumption isn't too far a field.


I haven't experience ANY bugs with the series3, knock on wood. It performs flawlessly.

I was being sarcastic about the HD-TiVo part, so I get the assumption, I was just trying to point out that it isn't ALL OF TIVO, just the Hr10.


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