# Losing live TV when scheduled show starts



## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

I'm a bit confused with having multiple tuners (just went from S2 to Premier 4). 

Say I am watching live TV channel 5 using the delay buffer and watching a show that started at 8:30. I have something scheduled for 9:00 also on channel 5. When it is 9:00, it jumps right to real time and I am watching the recording and lose my buffer of my 8:30 show completely! That seems wrong. What's the point of having all those tuners!?!? Is that buffer around somewhere?

This is not how my S2 worked. I could continue my 8:30 show just fine until I ran into the 9:00 start. Seems like a step backwards with this particular scenario. 

I don't get this behavior if I am watching a different channel at 8:30. Then it just uses another tuner to switch to channel 5 and I am all set. 

Maybe there is some preference I can set???


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

That does seem different than what my Tivo HD does .... curious. I think my TiVo saves the buffer I'm watching combined with the new recording. When playing back the recording it just starts at the right place (beginning of recorded show) but I see the previous buffer recording at the front (left end) of the time line. That's not real clean and apparently not as efficient since it's saving that buffer fragment that isn't part of the recording. Apparently your model simply will not allow either (1) two tuners tuned to the same channel or (2) the buffer you were watching to be maintained as a "temporary" recording so you can finish watching it. I like the way my Tivo does it pretty well.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Weird, but hitting record gets it done.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

dlfl said:


> That does seem different than what my Tivo HD does .... curious.


The disappearing buffer when a recording starts is a known issue and not anything new.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

jrtroo said:


> Weird, but hitting record gets it done.


True, but I shouldn't have to hit record though. That presumes that I am aware of the fact that a scheduled show is coming up on the same channel. The beauty of Tivo with 4 tuners is that one doesn't have to remember what is setup to record - keeps my brain out of the loop. 

And even if I accepted that, why should I have to record everything and go back to My shows. Sometimes it is something timely like the news or chronicle and there is absolutely no point to keeping it and "managing" it via MyShows. I just want to watch it now. I like to watch LiveTv for my casual channel surfing and news and use MyShows for managing all my TV series. Sometimes while channel surfing, something is interesting and I want to continue watching it. Especially if I hit pause and take a detour to generate a buffer for commercial-skipping. Everybody uses Tivo differently and it should accomodate all these Use Cases the same.

Is this "known issue" a Premiere thing or all of Tivo? I searched forums first and didn't come up with relevant hits.

p.s. there is no problem with the recorded show's beginning point.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

hershey4 said:


> T
> Is this "known issue" a Premiere thing or all of Tivo? I searched forums first and didn't come up with relevant hits.


Well, dlfl said the behavior is different than what his HD does, so if his HD doesn't do it, then it's not something that affects all of Tivo.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

The issue is brought up in the 20.3.1 update thread as a bug that was not fixed, so it's been around for a while.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> The issue is brought up in the 20.3.1 update thread as a bug that was not fixed, so it's been around for a while.


You make it sound that its not a big deal because its not new. It's new to me and it irritates me greatly! I'm going to contact Tivo on it to try to get some action. (yeah, I know... don't hold my breath...)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

hershey4 said:


> You make it sound that its not a big deal because its not new. It's new to me and it irritates me greatly! I'm going to contact Tivo on it to try to get some action. (yeah, I know... don't hold my breath...)


How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching, what if all ch were somewhere in there buffer ? what one would TiVo change to start a recording ? All ch have a buffer, do you want the TiVo to check how far back into each buffer each ch is, than use the ch that is the closes to real time ? This logic could get complicated with 6 tuners.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

lessd said:


> How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching, what if all ch were somewhere in there buffer ? what one would TiVo change to start a recording ? All ch have a buffer, do you want the TiVo to check how far back into each buffer each ch is, than use the ch that is the closes to real time ? This logic could get complicated with 6 tuners.


No, it has nothing (directly) to do with tuners. You're watching a show in a live-tv buffer (behind) and that buffer becomes disassociated with a tuner. On Series 2 and 3 machines, you can continue to watch the show - the buffer stays around even without a tuner. On a Series 4 or 5 machine, the buffer disappears and you're kicked out of your show.

It's new with one of the series 4 software releases and I regard it as a bug.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

lessd said:


> How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching,


That should be basic information... It ought to "know". That's probably the bug -- that the information is not being saved at each channel change so that the tuner request logic fails.


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## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

lessd said:


> How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching, .


It should know which tuner is currently being sent to the display.

The TiVo subsequently *should choose a vacant tuner to record anything set to be recorded that is not on that channel. Should all other tuners be actively recording other features, then the TiVo should throw up a warning page with options to cancel the upcoming recording**, just like the single tuner series 2 did.

*This is hypothetical, not actual recent model TiVo behavior

** Or Choose which recording to cancel to allow the upcoming recording to proceed.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

hershey4 said:


> You make it sound that its not a big deal because its not new. It's new to me and it irritates me greatly! I'm going to contact Tivo on it to try to get some action. (yeah, I know... don't hold my breath...)


It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


+1

ANYTHING that I watch, I hit the record button. I did this with my four tuner TiVos as well as my two tuner TiVos over the last decade. It has always avoided issues like the OP mentioned.

Even just a misplaced button press and I can lose the buffer of what is being watched if it is not being recorded. Or I could start doing something else, and when I come back the buffer is long gone. If I hit record there are no issues. I don't have to watch everything I record, and the TiVo will also automatically delete shows, or you can manually delete them if you want. But hitting record when watching something avoids alot of issues.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


-1

sorry, I disagree completely. LiveTV is LiveTV period.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pteronaut said:


> It should know which tuner is currently being sent to the display.
> 
> The TiVo subsequently *should choose a vacant tuner to record anything set to be recorded that is not on that channel. Should all other tuners be actively recording other features, then the TiVo should throw up a warning page with options to cancel the upcoming recording**, just like the single tuner series 2 did.
> 
> ...


I don't think TiVo spent any time on the extra logic about what tuner you are watching, if the ch is going to change you get a warning watching or not, but no warning if only the buffer is going away, as stated on this Thread, if the program on the buffer is important to the watcher, just record it.


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## dkenglish7 (Dec 9, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


-1

You keep repeating this as if it is Holy Writ. But just pushing the Record button is not enough. My XL4 will still jump out of the item I am recording and into the start of the scheduled recording. To avoid this behavior, I have to start recording the show, leave the show, and restart watching from My Shows. That is hardly the convenience I expect from a Tivo.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I may keep saying
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
but do you have any other options to prevent losing what you are watching?
No?
I didn't think so.
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.

Provided that you don't have suggestions turned on, you could also take a few seconds to check the to do list to see if anything is scheduled to record while you'll be watching live tv. But then again, if people are too lazy to press the red button, why would they go through the hassle of checking the TDL?

I don't understand whining about losing live tv to a recording when it is very simple to avoid the problem.

It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

scandia101 said:


> I may keep saying
> It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
> but do you have any other options to prevent losing what you are watching?
> No?
> ...


I disagree very strongly with this.

The activity is not using a DVR, it is watching TV. The TiVo motto is TV Your Way.

All you people saying "record everything" have a different view than TiVo itself. If TiVo thought that was the only way to watch TV, then it would set up a named recording for whatever is being watched live. TiVo knows better than that.

If you run across something interesting live, start watching, pause for a phone call, resume watching, and then miss the last 5 minutes of your movie because TiVo, without any warning, switches you to current time, you have every right to be very upset at TiVo. The 5 minutes you want to watch are stored in a buffer on the TiVo; there is no reason, besides this bug, that you should be denied the opportunity to watch them. You have always been able to watch this 5 minutes on Series 1, 2, and 3 TiVos, and for a good part of Series 4 history on Premieres as well. It's only in this past year that this bug has crept in.

Recording everything is a perfectly fine way to watch TV, but there are other ways that large numbers of TiVo owners watch TV. TiVo has always supported those ways, and for you folks to claim TiVo shouldn't is just wrong.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> I disagree very strongly with this.


Why?
Your statement below does not disagree with anything I've said.



> If you run across something interesting live, start watching, pause for a phone call, resume watching, and then miss the last 5 minutes of your movie because TiVo, without any warning, switches you to current time, you have every right to be very upset at TiVo. The 5 minutes you want to watch are stored in a buffer on the TiVo; there is no reason, besides this bug, that you should be denied the opportunity to watch them. You have always been able to watch this 5 minutes on Series 1, 2, and 3 TiVos, and for a good part of Series 4 history on Premieres as well. It's only in this past year that this bug has crept in.
> 
> Recording everything is a perfectly fine way to watch TV, but there are other ways that large numbers of TiVo owners watch TV. TiVo has always supported those ways, and for you folks to claim TiVo shouldn't is just wrong.


You seem to believe that I'm saying that a Premiere Tivo should behave the way it does. I am not. What I'm saying is that there is a problem and you can easily avoid it. If you know this can happen and you continue to lose live tv to recordings, it's your own fault for not recording what you were watching.

TiVo, TV your way does not mean that a Tivo is required to do what you want, it has only ever meant within the scope of what a Tivo does. If your Premiere loses live tv for a recording, TV your way is not an option.

So again, why do you disagree with methods to get around this problem?

It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Look- if you know the behavior, then you know how to work the scenario. RECORD.

Even if working as the OP had hoped, a simple button push could dump the buffer. RECORDING would prevent that it totality.

When done, then delete. Plus, you can go to the park, walk the dog, whatever, and miss ALL of the commercials. Watch two games in succession without flipping around in about, 30 minutes a game.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

That's why they make chocolate vanilla and strawberry ice cream. everybody likes different flavors. Why should someone be forced to have chocolate if they want vanilla. It is about having control and having choices. For mega bucks I paid for this hunk of electronics, I should be able to do whatever ****I**** want with it (within the design specifications). That's the point. You think your way is fine, but clearly its good for YOU, not the world.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

Lets agree to disagree and move on to more interesting threads...


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

hershey4 said:


> That's why they make chocolate vanilla and strawberry ice cream. everybody likes different flavors. Why should someone be forced to have chocolate if they want vanilla. It is about having control and having choices. For mega bucks I paid for this hunk of electronics, I should be able to do whatever ****I**** want with it (within the design specifications). That's the point. You think your way is fine, but clearly its good for YOU, not the world.





hershey4 said:


> Lets agree to disagree and move on to more interesting threads...


You still clearly do not understand that I don't disagree on how the Tivo should work.
and
"It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it." is not my way as you seem to believe, it as a means to prevent the problem

If live tv means that much to you and you choose to not prevent the problem, you have absolutely no good reason to complain when it happens.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

scandia101 said:


> If live tv means that much to you and you choose to not prevent the problem, you have absolutely no good reason to complain when it happens.


That's an unbelievably arrogant statement to make.

So you would say:
1. If you only get 4 tuners working on your 6 tuner Roamio, and you don't change your Roamio to only use 4 tuners, then you have absolutely no good reason to complain?
2. If your TiVo reboots because because you have a green switch, and you continue to use the green switch, then you have absolutely no good reason to complain?
3. If you were using 1080p with Netflix, and you didn't change it to 1080i, then you had absolutely no good reason to complain? (This has been fixed).

This is a bug; it is not how TiVo has deliberately designed their system. The original poster has every right to complain about it. For you to say he doesn't is just mind-boggling to me.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

jrtroo said:


> Look- if you know the behavior, then you know how to work the scenario. RECORD.
> 
> Even if working as the OP had hoped, a simple button push could dump the buffer. RECORDING would prevent that it totality.
> 
> When done, then delete. Plus, you can go to the park, walk the dog, whatever, and miss ALL of the commercials. Watch two games in succession without flipping around in about, 30 minutes a game.


I would say that the advice to "just hit the record button" is being given by folks who don't appreciate how others watch TV. Even after 13 years of TiVo, my wife is still an inveterate channel flipper. So is she supposed to change channels, hit the record button, then 5 minutes later change channels again, then go to My Shows, and delete the 5 minutes of recording, then go back to live-tv and continue channel flipping? Don't be ridiculous.


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## treaty (Mar 1, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> I may keep saying
> It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
> but do you have any other options to prevent losing what you are watching?
> No?
> I didn't think so.


This is ridiculous. Anyone that has used previous versions of TiVo knows that this live tv buffer disappearing when scheduled recording begins on the same channel issue is a bug in the current Premier software version. The "other option" is for TiVo to fix the bug and make this work the way that it should... The way it's always worked in the past. The appropriate answer to the OP was just "it's a bug and we all wish TiVo would fix it".


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

treaty said:


> The appropriate answer to the OP was just "it's a bug and we all wish TiVo would fix it".


Some would think that offering a viable method to work around the shortfall would be more appropriate than simply telling the Op that the problem they see is a problem especially when the OP did ask if there was something they could do about it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I have a question for all the people complaining about this bug.

Are you spending as much time complaining to TiVo about this bug as you are arguing about it in this thread?

I hope so, because you're not doing anything but wasting your time here.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

I have reported my complaint to them and have been awaiting a response for near 24 hours. It will come in their typical slooooooooooooooow fashion.

@treaty is right. I (OP) wasn't initially thinking bug... I was initially thinking "maybe new and improved behavior - change of design" (just like new and improved sluggish navigation and other crap about Premiere I am coming to dislike). It is totally a new phenomena to me to embrace that Tivo is just another package of software complete with defects and performance issues and baggage. With my S2, Tivo used to just be a piece of hardware that did what I wanted. I just assumed Premiere would be the same reliability factor with more features. Boy, was I wrong!


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

CrispyCritter said:


> I would say that the advice to "just hit the record button" is being given by folks who don't appreciate how others watch TV. Even after 13 years of TiVo, my wife is still an inveterate channel flipper. So is she supposed to change channels, hit the record button, then 5 minutes later change channels again, then go to My Shows, and delete the 5 minutes of recording, then go back to live-tv and continue channel flipping? Don't be ridiculous.


No, I totally get it. If someone chooses not to learn a feature, or to not record and instead flip around back and forth with the buffer and potentially lose some content, that is up to them. I'm just indicating that hitting record, in this instance, addresses (and perhaps solves) the problem.

For your wife, I would suggest (its up to her) to hit record, and then either do something else or watch something else recorded, and then go back. She could potentially watch two interesting programs in the same space of time. If she chooses not to do this, no problem. Just indicating a potential solution.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> If live tv means that much to you and you choose to not prevent the problem, you have absolutely no good reason to complain when it happens.


wrong, i have every right to complain about buggy software, even if there's a workaround - users in this forum do it daily.

this is a huge bug, and contributes directly to unsatifactory performance. i shouldn't have to record every live show i watch, or view my to do list with each live channel change, just to avoid losing the live tv buffer.

countless times this has cost me the last 5 minutes of a show, and it's disappointing to have to go online, sometimes the next day, just to see the ending of a show - isn't that what tivo is for? other tivos and different mfg dvrs don't act this way, so it's not only a bug, it's a competitive issue, too.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> wrong, i have every right to complain about buggy software, even if there's a workaround - users in this forum do it daily.
> 
> this is a huge bug, and contributes directly to unsatifactory performance. i shouldn't have to record every live show i watch, or view my to do list with each live channel change, just to avoid losing the live tv buffer.
> 
> countless times this has cost me the last 5 minutes of a show, and it's disappointing to have to go online, sometimes the next day, just to see the ending of a show - isn't that what tivo is for? other tivos and different mfg dvrs don't act this way, so it's not only a bug, it's a competitive issue, too.


Your are right, you shouldn't have to record everything, but the thing is, unless you do, you will continue to lose the end of what you were watching and it will be your fault for not being proactive about a problem that you are well aware of.

and why on earth would you have to check the TDL after every channel change?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> I would say that the advice to "just hit the record button" is being given by folks who don't appreciate how others watch TV. Even after 13 years of TiVo, my wife is still an inveterate channel flipper. So is she supposed to change channels, hit the record button, then 5 minutes later change channels again, then go to My Shows, and delete the 5 minutes of recording, then go back to live-tv and continue channel flipping? Don't be ridiculous.


If she's not really watching anything because she's flipping channels, she isn't really losing anything when a recording starts. My advice to record what you watch wouldn't be for her because she clearly isn't investing any time in anything in order to need to see the end. And you also seem to not understand that all I'm doing is suggesting a way to get around the problem. if it doesn't work for you that's fine, but it does not negate the advice.

and you clearly have some convoluted thinking going on if you think it would be necessary to delete each recording as you go rather than deleting them at one time that is convenient.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> ...and why on earth would you have to check the TDL after every channel change?


just another poor example of a workaround - you check your to do list to check for upcoming recordings on the same channel before you change live tv channels. if you forget upcoming recordings by the time you change channels again, you have to look again...


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> just another poor example of a workaround - you check your to do list to check for upcoming recordings on the same channel before you change live tv channels. if you forget upcoming recordings by the time you change channels again, you have to look again...


Don't understand why you are still arguing against not losing what you want to watch.
I understand that this is problem that people want solved and TiVo is the only one that can solve it. In the meantime, you can prevent losing what you want to watch by simply recording it. If that is not practical, then don't do it, but to argue against it is just plain asinine.

It's like buying a car that later develops an air leak in a tire. You have to keep adding air until it get's fixed. Arguing that you shouldn't have to add air to prevent damage because it didn't always do it and that it's not convenient to do so will not change the fact that you have to do something.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> just another poor example of a workaround -


Do you have any better work-around options that have not been mentioned?
I'm sure everyone would be greatful to hear what you have to offer on the subject


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> Don't understand why you are still arguing against not losing what you want to watch.


when did agreeing a software bug that causes live tv to be lost is a pain become "arguing"?


scandia101 said:


> If that is not practical, then don't do it, but to argue against it is just plain asinine.


where exactly did i argue against workarounds to become "asinine"?


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> ...
> It's like buying a car that later develops an air leak in a tire. You have to keep adding air until it get's fixed. ....


until it gets fixed by who? Ford? not a good analogy. It is within my control to get the tire fixed. I have no control over what Tivo does. Sure, I can attempt to influence their decisions, but I cannot fix the problem no matter what I do.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That is not the point in the analogy- taken to extreme they all fall apart. If you choose to not record as a way to get this done, you are free to do so. In the analogy, you are free to let your tire empty as well, but clearly an empty tire renders the car essentially useless, and this issue with Tivo is just an issue with a use case and does not render the Tivo useless. Good times.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

I don't think people have a problem with workarounds. I think it's the glib immature "deal with it" attitude expressed here. If someone has a problem with a bug in the software they have every right to complain until it gets fixed, no matter if there is a workaround or not. How long has this bug been out there? Maybe if more people started complaining instead of just sucking it up and dealing with it the bug would be fixed already.

Also, the fall update is coming soon and and one of the update items includes "bug fixes" sooooooo maybe?


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

Here's a bunch of BS from Tivo customer support. Their first reply was non-sensical but did call it a feature.

_Thank you for responding to TiVo Customer Support. I apologize for that grammar error in the first email. That is not a bug in the software. We changed the way the cache would work and what you see now is the new way it is handled. We can only place a request to hopefully get that changed back to the old way.​__At least this explanation is clear, but it is insane. Why would it work one way for one channel and work differently if I happen to be watching a different channel??? That is not a feature. That is BAD PROGRAMMING (software programming). Even if it was by choice (which I doubt), what advantage could it possibly bring to the user? There is NOTHING advantageous about the new behavior.

When was this BUG introduced into the software? _​_We had that added just recently in the software update around 20.1. We could not say why it was added, as there wasn't an official release why. Suffice to say many customers were not happy about it. _​
So much BS that just adds to the anti-Tivo sentiment. SInce when does a "feature" not get a release note and hype? Answer: when it is not a feature, it is a bug!!! A fundamental design change for performance enhancement feature is fine, but when it causes a regressive behavior in functionality it becomes a DEFECT!!!!!!! Jeez... software engineering 101


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Tivo has long not held out detailed release notes, and only the biggest issues are included when they are provided. That is not really any evidence that they believe its a feature. Don't take anything a CSR says too literally.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

Agreed, CSR's don't usually know much and will say whatever. This was first response fwiw:

_Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be glad to help you with this feature request. We apologize for the confusion, but that was a bug on the new software, but instead a planned change. However, I would agree that having the buffer the way it was in the past was better, so I can place a request to hopefully get that changed back. Definitely keep us informed of any other features you would like to see (this kind of feedback is what allowed us to finally add the capacity meter again). _​
Sounds like I got the "feature request" department! Yup... fixing bugs is a feature I request --- LOL!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Test said:


> I don't think people have a problem with workarounds. I think it's the glib immature "deal with it" attitude expressed here.


Sorry you feel that way. But I don't understand how saying that 'until it gets fixed, there is a work-around and not using it makes it your own fault for losing the end when a recording starts' could be construed as having a glib attitude.

People can complain about the issue to their heart's content, but this thread has not been complaints against the issue, it has been mostly complaints against the work-around which makes no sense.

Any time there is a problem in life, you have to deal with it and compromise to make do with what you have until the issue is either resolved or it becomes permanent. When it becomes permanent, the compromis is no longer a compromise, it becomes how the situation is handled. This Tivo issue is no different.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> Sorry you feel that way. But I don't understand how saying that *'until it gets fixed, there is a work-around and not using it makes it your own fault for losing the end when a recording starts'* could be construed as having a glib attitude.


That's great, but that isn't how you started and continued on with this discussion. You made a flippant statement and then kept repeating. As a matter of fact if you stated it the way you claim you did in the first place I don't think this thread would have been turned into a "I shouldn't have to" argument.



scandia101 said:


> *People can complain about the issue to their heart's content*, but this thread has not been complaints against the issue, it has been mostly complaints against the work-around which makes no sense.


That differs from your previous statement...a lot. The majority of this thread is about the bug and the fact that customers shouldn't HAVE to use a work around to get the system they pay a lot of money for to work correctly.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Test said:


> That differs from your previous statement...a lot. The majority of this thread is about the bug and the fact that customers shouldn't HAVE to use a work around to get the system they pay a lot of money for to work correctly.


Complaining that they shouldn't have to use a work-around is not complaining about the issue, it's complaining about the work-around.
According to what the csr responding to hershey4's complaint said, the system is working correctly.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> Complaining that they shouldn't have to use a work-around is not complaining about the issue, it's complaining about the work-around.


when the work around is unacceptable, that makes the bug that creates the need to use the workaround is also unacceptable.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> when the work around is unacceptable, that makes the bug that creates the need to use the workaround is also unacceptable.


What bug?

If you find the work-around unacceptable, don't use it. That makes it entirely your choice to lose the buffer when a recording starts, so the blame is on you too.
And if, as you say, the problem is unacceptable, why do you still have a Tivo Premiere when continued use is accepting it?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> What bug?


the bug that stops live tv shows unnecessarily while you're watching them, before they end.



scandia101 said:


> ...why do you still have a Tivo Premiere when continued use is accepting it?


i'm sure tivo appreciates your endorsement.

performance, support, and overall experience _always_ factor into future purchases. throwing new money at tivo's unresolved technical issues isn't always the right solution.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> the bug that stops live tv shows unnecessarily while you're watching them, before they end.


That's not a bug. That's how it works now.



> Thank you for responding to TiVo Customer Support. I apologize for that grammar error in the first email. That is not a bug in the software. We changed the way the cache would work and what you see now is the new way it is handled. We can only place a request to hopefully get that changed back to the old way.





> i'm sure tivo appreciates your endorsement.
> 
> performance, support, and overall experience _always_ factor into future purchases. throwing new money at tivo's unresolved technical issues isn't always the right solution.


Calling you out on being a hypocrite for continued acceptance of what you say is unacceptable is not an endorsement of TiVo.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> That's not a bug. That's how it works now.


just because it works that way by design, doesn't make it less of a bug. and if it's a "feature" as you suggest, why not design it into all tivo models? i'm sure the reception would be overwhelming.


scandia101 said:


> ...what you say is unacceptable is not an endorsement of TiVo.


i'm glad you agree with me that tivo doesn't appreciate your endorsement - thanks for seeing things from my perspective!


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

CrispyCritter said:


> No, it has nothing (directly) to do with tuners. You're watching a show in a live-tv buffer (behind) and that buffer becomes disassociated with a tuner. On Series 2 and 3 machines, you can continue to watch the show - the buffer stays around even without a tuner. On a Series 4 or 5 machine, the buffer disappears and you're kicked out of your show.
> 
> It's new with one of the series 4 software releases and I regard it as a bug.


Yep. We used to call that an 'orphaned' buffer. It would last until out exited for any reason (switched tuners, went into the menus, etc) or (IIRC) the scheduled recorded ended.

But as long as you didn't bump the wrong button you usually had pleny of time to finish watching the remaining bit of buffer. (It often seemed to confuse new users into thinking the TiVo had somehow gained 1 more tuner because it's 1 (or 2) tuners would be recording but they were still watching LiveTV - except they weren't; they were watching a buffered stream that was no longer having new material added)

This new(ish) bug hasn't bitten me much, but I did prefer the old behavior. (That said, it wouldn't be my top priority functionality to restore if given control of the TiVo development; the changes to wishlist handling/results bother me much more)


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

scandia, you gotta be kidding me!!! I know you don't believe the CSR BS (and to edit the words of the quote is totally NON Netiquette!!!).

To the rest of us... I think scandia is getting a charge out of our reaction to his obstanance. I'm outta here!!!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> just because it works that way by design, doesn't make it less of a bug.



Working that way by design is the definition of not being a bug.



> and if it's a "feature" as you suggest, why not design it into all tivo models? i'm sure the reception would be overwhelming


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> Working that way by design is the definition of not being a bug.


wrong, yet again. all bugs are created by design - _bad_ design.



hershey4 said:


> ...I think scandia is getting a charge out of our reaction to his obstanance. I'm outta here!!!


of course he is, still important to point out his hypocrisy (at least for a little while!).

thanks for reporting to tivo, maybe someone with a clue will read the thread and take action before writing off premiere software updates entirely. i reported my disappointment with scandia's new "feature", too.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm getting dizzy...


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

The obstinance belongs with those who cannot and will not accept what I'm saying:
There's a work-around, use it or don't and live with the consequences of either choice until such time that the problem no longer exists.

I don't understand how people are finding this so offensive as to keep arguing against it.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> wrong, yet again. all bugs are created by design - _bad_ design.


Believe what you will.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

I hate to revive this particular thread, but wanted to note that the bug is fixed since recent update. 

Now if I am watching Channel 123 via the 30-min buffer, and a recording for Channel 123 is requested, a spare tuner is now selected for that recording - presumably an affect of dynamic tuner allocation.

That is not as good as how Series 2 did it, but its preferable to losing the live buffer. I would still prefer that it just begin recording at the point in the buffer that is requested and let me seamlessly run into the recorded content. The fact that it uses a "spare" tuner, messes up my 4-way toggle of fave channels to surf in delay mode. Now 2 of my 4 tuners are duplicating the same channel and I lose one of my Faves. 

But as I said, its preferable to losing the live buffer into thin air so I guess I'm thankful for that.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Did they fix this on the 2 tuner Premier's also. I was running into the same problem as the OP of the thread. I just work around it but it would be nice not to have to.


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