# ASK for owners with 4K TV's: are your TiVo's set to 1080p or 4K?



## Randy No Arms (May 18, 2018)

Hi,

I noticed that if I let my BOLT stay with the "auto" video output setting I get 1080p/60.

My AVR is set to passthrough and my TV is a 4K model but my cable company has few 1080p channels: most are 720 or even 480.

Overall, my impression of anything digital is that if you put junk in, you get junk out, and uprezing video is always a chancy thing, but that leads me to the ASK here:

Are you pushing your BOLT to always display 4K/60 output or are you capping it to 1080p because going from 480 lines of vertical resolution to 2160 lines can never end well?

Thanks in advance for the opinion!


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

In auto mode my Bolt sends 4k/60 to my P series Vizio 4k set.

Even the 480i channels look really good when scaled up to 4k


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

OP, this would have been a great thread to have created with a poll, you may want to either add it, or create a new one with a poll and PM a Mod to delete this one.


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## bfwk122 (Jul 2, 2006)

Randy No Arms said:


> Hi,
> 
> I noticed that if I let my BOLT stay with the "auto" video output setting I get 1080p/60.
> 
> ...


I have it set to automatic and it works very well with my Samsung TV. It passes it at 2160/60 and all channels seem much clearer..


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## Randy No Arms (May 18, 2018)

Doesn't look like there a way to add a poll via Edit. Maybe I'll make a new thread at some point.

Thanks for sharing your data repliers! Maybe my AVR is telling TiVo that 1080p is supported but it sounds like putting in 4K/60 is the way to go.

Thanks!


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

Randy No Arms said:


> Are you pushing your BOLT to always display 4K/60 output or are you capping it to 1080p because going from 480 lines of vertical resolution to 2160 lines can never end well?


Huh? 1080 isn't evenly divisible by 480, either.

My TiVo is set to automatic, and chooses 4K60.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Randy No Arms said:


> Doesn't look like there a way to add a poll via Edit. Maybe I'll make a new thread at some point.
> Thanks for sharing your data repliers! Maybe my AVR is telling TiVo that 1080p is supported but it sounds like putting in 4K/60 is the way to go.
> Thanks!


There's a selection menu for the various resolutions. Move your selection over the one marked Auto (recommended). Now look to the right and you will see three items. The bottom item states "Auto for your TV includes:" and under that is what your TV reports to the TiVo. I get (on a 1080p Sony) 1080i for TE3 and 1080p for TE4.


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## Randy No Arms (May 18, 2018)

m.s said:


> Huh? 1080 isn't evenly divisible by 480, either.


My point being that uprez'ing from 480 to 1080 is hard enough as it's already twice as large; going to 4K is a much larger jump at over four times as large.


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## Randy No Arms (May 18, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Move your selection over the one marked Auto (recommended). Now look to the right and you will see three items.


Thanks - I'll take a look!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Randy No Arms said:


> Thanks - I'll take a look!


I have no idea why it's called "Auto". Perhaps it should labeled "I will use:".


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

Randy No Arms said:


> My point being that uprez'ing from 480 to 1080 is hard enough as it's already twice as large; going to 4K is a much larger jump at over four times as large.


Realistically, it's no harder at all. 1080 ->2160 is just turning every pixel into 4, which has to be done either by the TiVo before it's sent to the TV, or by the TV itself before it's placed on the screen. Otherwise, you'd have a 1/4 sized image with lots of black. It's a simple operation, doesn't take a lot of processor to do.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I used to run mine at 2160P but since TiVo never updated their UHD apps, and never enabled HDR, I decided to just output 720P, 1080i, and 1080P.
And then I put my Darbee Darblet on the output of my Bolt. WHich helps with the picture quality. It can't handle higher than 1080P anyway so changing my Bolt to 1080P and lower worked to my advantage.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

The set is going to scale up input resolution to match the fixed resolution of the display. The question is which device do you prefer to handle the scaling, the TV or the TiVo?. “Auto” on the TiVo has the TiVo upscale to the display resolution (the preferred resolution is reported to the TV from the TiVo). Selecting the resolution allows you to choose which resolution is passed to the TV for the TV to scale. Selecting a single resolution lower than the native display can result in scaling being applied by BOTH devices, which may create residual artifacts.

I have the TiVo pass the HD broadcast resolutions in native resolution (1080i, 720p) and the TV upscales those to the native resolution. The only exception is 480i SD content, which is passed as 480p (the TV doesn’t accept 480i input), so in that instance the TiVo handles the de-interlacing, and the set handles the reast of the image processing and scaling.

While it is difficult to detect any real difference in the device selection, I would rather have the TV handle the upscaling, and whenever possible to have the upscaling occur only once in the process.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

I've stopped trying to figure out why my Bolt always chooses 1080p as the auto setting when literally every other 4K device I have connected (Apple TV 4K, Roku Ultra, Xbox) automatically defaults to 2160P. I've changed connections, reset video, swapped cables, you name it. Now I just don't use it to watch any 4K content, just use the streamers or LG's native apps. They all handle 4K flawlessly.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Don't have a bolt, but some experimentation showed that the TV (LG OLED B6) syncs up to a different resolution faster than my Roamio does, so I can channel surf faster if I set the Roamio to pass along the native resolution and let the TV upscale things .


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

sangs said:


> I've stopped trying to figure out why my Bolt always chooses 1080p as the auto setting when literally every other 4K device I have connected (Apple TV 4K, Roku Ultra, Xbox) automatically defaults to 2160P. I've changed connections, reset video, swapped cables, you name it. Now I just don't use it to watch any 4K content, just use the streamers or LG's native apps. They all handle 4K flawlessly.


My understanding is that the "auto" setting uses the EDID metadata (Extended Display Identification Data) coming from the TV. In my case, using "auto" from the Bolt sets the output to my LG to 4k, and the Bolt then scales everything to that resolution. If I chose to (for example, I wanted everything output to the set at 720p), I could select ONLY the resolution desired in the video settings menu (not selecting "Auto") and the Bolt will scale all output to that resolution, and pass it on the TV.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Randy No Arms said:


> Hi,
> Overall, my impression of anything digital is that if you put junk in, you get junk out, and uprezing video is always a chancy thing, but that leads me to the ASK here:
> 
> Are you pushing your BOLT to always display 4K/60 output or are you capping it to 1080p because going from 480 lines of vertical resolution to 2160 lines can never end well?
> Thanks in advance for the opinion!


I hate to break it to you, if you think it's not going to end well, because that is always how it ends. Your TV's got a fixed resolution with a fixed number of pixels. It's always going to be upscaled to 2160 lines. It's just a question of whether it's upscaled by the Tivo or the TV.

Generally, it shouldn't matter which device does the upscaling, though it's my subjective impression that the Tivo does a better job than my TV (thus I set the Tivo to upscale to 4K)

The one caveat is this. I would set it to either auto (with all relevant resolutions enabled) or 4K but not 1080i/1080p. If you set it to 1080p your 720p content will first have to be downscaled and then upscaled so that it can be output by the Tivo at 1080p since it's not an even multiple. But if it's upscaled directly to 2160, either by the Tivo or your TV, then it doesn't have to be downscaled first (even multiple).

(I don't know if the above downrezzing actually produces a noticeable effect-I never tested it, but in theory it should)


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

The open variable is which device will do the scaling. The scaler chip sets used in the sets are typically developed in house. TV's from "the big three" (Sony, Samsung, LG) have the reputation of making good scalers, some of the other sets... not so much. That said, the question is if you think the TiVo will do a better job than the TV. You have the ability to try with your eyeballs- record a few programs, and then change the output resolution before playing back, and see if you notice any difference.

I would fully concur with fyodor that in any case, you don't want to be scaling the image twice. The reprocessing leaves more artifacts, or digital "noise" - and everything, except native 4K material, has to be scaled to match the native display of your 4K set. Think of it this way: that 4K display is made up of over 8.2 million pixels; a 480 SD feed is 307.2K pixels. Only 4% of that SD image on the 4K display is "real"- the remaining 96% is created through the scaling formulas. Any time that you are partially scaling an image, and then rescaling the scaled output, can create more "noise" in the calculations.

Either set the TiVo to 4K, and forget about it, or select the output resolutions that would normally be fed to the set (1080i, 720p, and 480i from Over The Air; or 720p, 480i from most Cable providers), and let the TiVo do the heavy lifting.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

I have the Bolt Video Resolution setting at 4K 60fps, for my LG OLED TV. This was the preferred setting according the Bolt menu. So is the TV doing the upscaling or the Bolt? I'm still a bit confused about this. Also, how do you know the scaled output resolution is if you picked the Auto setting?


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Randy No Arms said:


> I noticed that if I let my BOLT stay with the "auto" video output setting I get 1080p/60.


How do you know you are getting 1080p/60, with the auto setting?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Using the LG remote, point and click twice in the upper left hand corner of the screen. You will see the input identified, and a line beneath that box that indicates the input resolution.

Anything input below 4K is being upscaled to the native resolution of the TV, by the TV.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

tapokata said:


> Anything input below 4K is being upscaled to the native resolution of the TV, by the TV.


Just so I understand, the channel content will still show, lets say...1080i, but is upscaled to the native resolution of my LG OLED TV. But if I have the Bolt video resolution set to "Auto", how do I find out what the content is upscaled to?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

"Auto" will use a resolution reported back to the Bolt, via HDMI from the TV. On the LG TV, clicking in the upper left hand corner will show the input resolution from the connected device. 

To test this, fix 1080p as the output resolution from the Bolt. Double click in the left hand corner of the screen, and you will see the input resolution from the Bolt (1080p). At that point, the TV is taking the supplied 1080p resolution and upscaling it to the native display of the set (4K). Change the Bolt back to "Auto", and then double-click in the corner again, and you will see that the input resolution from the Bolt has changed back to 4K. The TV is taking the upscaled feed from the Bolt at 4K, and is not scaling it any further.

Note that the displayed resolution is not necessarily the original source resolution. Received broadcasts, for example, will be recorded at their original resolution- for example, an SD (480i) television program (such as anything coming from MeTV or Movies!) will record at 480i. If the Bolt is set to Auto resolution, the Bolt will upscale it to 4K to match the LG display. If you selected 480p as an output resolution, then the LG would upscale the 480 content from the Bolt to 4K.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Okay, so I've tried using "Auto" on the Bolt and then "4K 60fps". Didn't notice a difference and I'm not sure which I should have it set to for my LG OLED tv.

I also notice that changing channels takes longer (about 2-3 seconds of black screen) with the Bolt, than it did with the Premiere. Some had said this had to do with the Bolt video resolution settings, but I have noticed no difference. So for whatever reason the Bolt takes longer, than the Premiere which was almost instantaneous.

Okay, so I just clicked the left hand corner using "Auto" and then "4K 60fps", and on every channel it showed 2160P. Now I'm really confused because this is a 4K TV.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Leave it at auto, especially if you're concerned about the slight tuning lag. The auto setting will keep the input resolution constant to the TV.

There's no 4K 60fps source material coming to you via over the air or cable, only from streaming apps. Given that Tivo's apps don't support HDR, you'll be using the LG steaming apps for that in any case.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

tapokata said:


> Leave it at auto, especially if you're concerned about the slight tuning lag. The auto setting will keep the input resolution constant to the TV.


Okay, thanks!

I also tried clicking all the video resolutions on the Bolt, except "Auto" and then when I clicked the upper left corner twice, it showed different resolutions. However, I don't notice a difference in the tuning lag when using "Auto" or "4k 60fps". So now I'm wondering which is better, let my TV or the Bolt do the upscaling? I'm tending to think my LG OLED tv would be better than the Bolt.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tapokata said:


> Leave it at auto, especially if you're concerned about the slight tuning lag. The auto setting will keep the input resolution constant to the TV.
> 
> There's no 4K 60fps source material coming to you via over the air or cable, only from streaming apps. Given that Tivo's apps don't support HDR, you'll be using the LG steaming apps for that in any case.


Streaming apps aren't using any 4k 60fps material either. It's typically 4k 24fps.


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

My Bolt is set to auto mode and is connected to a Vizio P series 4k TV and always sets 4k as the default automatically.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Resist said:


> Okay, so I just clicked the left hand corner using "Auto" and then "4K 60fps", and on every channel it showed 2160P. Now I'm really confused because this is a 4K TV.


4K is 3840 × 2160. 1080 is 1920 x 1080.

Scott


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Or 2K is 1920 x 1080 and 4k/UHD is 3840 x 2160.
Or 2160P is UHD and 1080P is 2K.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> 4K is 3840 × 2160. 1080 is 1920 x 1080


I realized that later. Doh!


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

Did anyone else notice any loss of signal strength output during one of the past updates? Not sure what caused this, but on one of my TV's I can no longer use the 4k setting as it says the hdmi cable can not pass the signal and use HD setting. Thing is, it worked fine since I bought my Bolt, something changed in the last month or so. Same TV, Same Bolt, Same hdmi cable just new OS on the TiVo. I have Fios and a cable card, but had that the entire time too.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Rkkeller said:


> ? Not sure what caused this, but on one of my TV's I can no longer use the 4k setting as it says the hdmi cable can not pass the signal and use HD setting. Thing is, it worked fine since I bought my Bolt, something changed in the last month or so. Same TV, Same Bolt, Same hdmi cable just new OS on the TiVo. I have Fios and a cable card, but had that the entire time too.


TV software/firmware update which you might not be aware occurred (assuming you have Internet connectivity to the TV)?

Scott


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

Thanks, I think that was it or the TV update did not go right. I did a reset of the TV and now it works fine.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Im back to using UHD output. This weekend I set up a TCL TV, but it did not like my Darbee Darblet in the chain with my TIVo. So I had to remove it. 

Although I might go back and try again with it. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

And I'm back to using 1080P. When posting that thread I wondered if my TiVo had switched to Auto mode. WHich would have put it in UHD output. And the Darbee can't handle higher than 1080P. So I just cecked again and that is what happened. So I manually selected the TiVos resolutions again for 1080P or lower and put my Darbee Darblet back on the output of the TiVo. Which produces a much better picture than without the Darblet in the chain.


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## zubinh (Jun 7, 2004)

Thanks for all of this info. I have an LG OLED C8. So just to confirm, if I want the TV to do all of the upscaling, I should just check off everything except Auto? Is that correct?

The only downside to doing that is that there is a longer delay when changing channels.


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## jjensen9971 (Dec 3, 2008)

I also have a LG OLED TV and a Apple 4kTV - i will be using one of those devices for Vudu, Netflix, Amazon because those support 4k HDR. I am actually thinking about NOT upgrading my Tivo Premier to a Tivo Bolt. I guess I dont think i will be getting any 4k channels from my Xfinity cable card - so why the heck upgrade my Tivo???


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## jtrippe77 (Feb 13, 2012)

zubinh said:


> Thanks for all of this info. I have an LG OLED C8. So just to confirm, if I want the TV to do all of the upscaling, I should just check off everything except Auto? Is that correct?
> 
> The only downside to doing that is that there is a longer delay when changing channels.


I'm trying to confirm the same thing with my Sony 900F. If I read this thread correctly for the TIVO to upscale to 4k we set to auto. For the TV to upscale, select 1080i and 720p and then 4k pass through for the apps. Does that sound right?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jtrippe77 said:


> I'm trying to confirm the same thing with my Sony 900F. If I read this thread correctly for the TIVO to upscale to 4k we set to auto. For the TV to upscale, select 1080i and 720p and then 4k pass through for the apps. Does that sound right?


First, the (Pass Through) resolutions apply to streaming only.







In the above picture, the Auto setting will use what your TV prefers. That is shown on the lower right corner of the picture. To get a TiVo to send "native" or what it receives, you need to check all the boxes. That will get you the delay. On my Sony (W600B) shown on a Roamio, I just check 1080i and the Pass Through for Amazon. A TV will Always "upscale" to its own native resolution if it has to. On the same TV a TE3 Roamio wants to send 1080i. On a TE4 Roamio is wants to send 1080p.

If you check all boxes you can change the output resolution with the Up key. If only one resolution is checked, the Up key displays that resolution.

One more thing. Hit the Info button when on a channel and the right side shows you the resolution being received.


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## jtrippe77 (Feb 13, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> First, the (Pass Through) resolutions apply to streaming only.
> View attachment 39111
> 
> In the above picture, the Auto setting will use what your TV prefers. That is shown on the lower right corner of the picture. To get a TiVo to send "native" or what it receives, you need to check all the boxes. That will get you the delay. On my Sony (W600B) shown on a Roamio, I just check 1080i and the Pass Through for Amazon. A TV will Always "upscale" to its own native resolution if it has to. On the same TV a TE3 Roamio wants to send 1080i. On a TE4 Roamio is wants to send 1080p.
> ...


Thank you. So it sounds like I should stick with what I have checked 720p/1080i and add 480i and p to let the TV upscale the broadcasts and leave checked 4k passthrough for the apps such as Netflix and Amazon Prime. Since my provider doesn't offer 4k content is there really any need to check the 4k settings other than the passthrough?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> First, the (Pass Through) resolutions apply to streaming only.
> View attachment 39111
> 
> In the above picture, the Auto setting will use what your TV prefers. That is shown on the lower right corner of the picture. To get a TiVo to send "native" or what it receives, you need to check all the boxes. That will get you the delay. On my Sony (W600B) shown on a Roamio, I just check 1080i and the Pass Through for Amazon. A TV will Always "upscale" to its own native resolution if it has to. On the same TV a TE3 Roamio wants to send 1080i. On a TE4 Roamio is wants to send 1080p.
> ...


The pass through-resolutions apply to any content being played. So if I play back the 2160P24 or 1080P24 videos I have on my my TiVos, they will use those resolutions and framerate for output. Not just from streaming content.


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## ELPHILLIPS (Feb 16, 2012)

I have a Bolt feeding a 2018 LG OLED 77 C. After trying different resolutions on the Bolt I just set it on auto and forgot about it. Seems to me no matter what resolution is sent to the TV the end image on the TV will be a product of the TV's upscaling.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ELPHILLIPS said:


> I have a Bolt feeding a 2018 LG OLED 77 C. After trying different resolutions on the Bolt I just set it on auto and forgot about it. Seems to me no matter what resolution is sent to the TV the end image on the TV will be a product of the TV's upscaling.


Not if it's being sent 3840x2160, UHD resoluton. Then the TV won't be upscaling anything.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

So I wanted to re-ask a question from this thread.....

To have the TiVo pass through whatever it gets from channels/apps I should check everything other than auto, right?

I have an ever so slight audio delay I am perceiving on my Samsung TV (using a Yamaha soundbar via CRC for audio). As a test of the possible theory that the TV might upscale “faster” and possibly remove the slight audio lag I want to bypass my TiVo Bolt doing the scaling.

What is really like is if my Samsung’s audio delay setting allowed for negative values. But I digress 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## My Cape is a Recliner (Oct 5, 2019)

Randy No Arms said:


> My point being that uprez'ing from 480 to 1080 is hard enough as it's already twice as large; going to 4K is a much larger jump at over four times as large.


going from (720x)480 to (1920x)1080p is 6 times larger. Then to (3840x)2160p/4k/UHD is 4 times larger than 1080p.

So.. Wouldn't having the DVR do the upscaling use an equivalent percentage (as above) more in storage space? If you're getting 1080p programs and having the TiVo upscale to 4k use 4 times as much space?


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

My Cape is a Recliner said:


> going from (720x)480 to (1920x)1080p is 6 times larger. Then to (3840x)2160p/4k/UHD is 4 times larger than 1080p.
> 
> So.. Wouldn't having the DVR do the upscaling use an equivalent percentage (as above) more in storage space? If you're getting 1080p programs and having the TiVo upscale to 4k use 4 times as much space?


Upscaling is done during playback, and doesn't affect the recording or storage space.


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