# Time Warner Cable May Drop CBS From Its TV Lineup



## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

*Time Warner Cable May Drop CBS From Its TV Lineup*

Don't be left stranded without your favorite programming! Time Warner Cable has not renewed its contract to provide you with all your favorite CBS shows. Don't be the only one who can't see NCIS, The Big Bang Theory, 2 Broke Girls, The NFL on CBS, The PGA Tour, SEC Football, NCIS: Los Angeles, Person of Interest, Elementary, Hawaii Five-0, The Mentalist, The Good Wife and the final season of How I Met Your Mother.

http://www.keepcbs.com/


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

This would only apply to areas with a CBS "owned & operated" station. Other CBS affiliates negotiate their own individual agreements with the cable companies.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> This would only apply to areas with a CBS "owned & operated" station. Other CBS affiliates negotiate their own individual agreements with the cable companies.


Of course, that's a lot of major markets.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Of course, that's a lot of major markets.


True, but the page linked to makes it sound like it would affect *all* Time Warner Cable customers, and unfortunately, the zip code search field on the page reinforces that impression. I'm rather certain that is incorrect, and that this would only affect those served by an O&O station who use Time Warner Cable.

Additionally, this sort of brinkmanship goes on all the time between broadcasters and cable/satellite providers. For instance, Journal Broadcasting is also currently fighting with Time Warner as well.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Of course, that's a lot of major markets.


From what I read, it's NY, LA and Dallas. But it also includes Showtime.

Personally I'm sick of this stuff. In the end, the customer gets screwed as our rates go up (I'm not a TWC customer, but eventually all providers go through this crap) and we end up financing another 5 versions of CSI and NCIS.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm glad to see TWC is making cord cutters not regret their decision.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Wait, can't CBS pull the "Must Carry" card?


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Doesn't CBS dance this dance with someone every year. Dish.. DirectTV... etc...

Doesn't it always get resolved?


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

mattack said:


> Wait, can't CBS pull the "Must Carry" card?


CBS wants to be paid by Time Warner. They don't want to be carried at the price that TWC is offering them. Retransmission fees are now a pretty substantial revenue stream for OTA stations.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> But it also includes Showtime.


I noticed the blurb on Showtimes home page this evening about it.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

Here in the LA area it will include KCal ch 9 as well, which is owned by CBS.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm so tired of endlessly seeing corporations whine about money problems with each other in the public domain. The money CBS is trying to pry out of TWC is going to come out of our pockets. These websites that are trying to tell me that I should pay more for already ridiculously-overpriced content and its antiquated delivery system can go away anytime now.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

ElJay said:


> I'm so tired of endlessly seeing corporations whine about money problems with each other in the public domain. The money CBS is trying to pry out of TWC is going to come out of our pockets. These websites that are trying to tell me that I should pay more for already ridiculously-overpriced content and its antiquated delivery system can go away anytime now.


Agreed. The intentionally try to get customers in an uproar about it because both sides are big babies and can't handle it themselves. Totally stupid.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> Agreed. The intentionally try to get customers in an uproar about it because both sides are big babies and can't handle it themselves. Totally stupid.


Except:

A) There is stuff people watch...CBS is the highest rated network, especially among the older demos who are less technically inclined (yes generalization, and I'm in that demo)

B) They know this public bickering works....people will complain that their shows are not available.

It costs money to put out these disclaimers, so they must work or they wouldn't do it. TWC put out a full page ad in the NYT too this week.


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## scole250 (Nov 8, 2005)

Most areas, even Goldsboro NC, have options other than TWC for TV and they know if they drop CBS, they will lose customers. I wouldn't waste my time helping either side with any thing to help them tweek the negotiations. Unless they want to pay us for our input.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

scole250 said:


> Most areas, even Goldsboro NC, have options other than TWC for TV and they know if they drop CBS, they will lose customers. I wouldn't waste my time helping either side with any thing to help them tweek the negotiations. Unless they want to pay us for our input.


The thing is, this kind of thing happens with ALL providers. DircTV, Dish, Cabelvision, Comcast, they all have gone through this. Switch to something else, and in 6 months, there will be the same fight with ABC or whatever. For me at least, unless it's something THAT important that I can't get another way, I'm staying put.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Won't affect my reception since I get it all OTA.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> The thing is, this kind of thing happens with ALL providers. DircTV, Dish, Cabelvision, Comcast, they all have gone through this. Switch to something else, and in 6 months, there will be the same fight with ABC or whatever. For me at least, unless it's something THAT important that I can't get another way, I'm staying put.


Yeah, these kind of things aren't even news anymore. We see this same story every couple months. They always end up figuring things out.

Is AMC on Dish yet? I remember that was one of these things where both actually held out and for a long time. It might still be going on.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Azlen said:


> CBS wants to be paid by Time Warner. They don't want to be carried at the price that TWC is offering them. Retransmission fees are now a pretty substantial revenue stream for OTA stations.


I know, but I meant that Time Warner couldn't *actually* drop them, if CBS didn't ask for money.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Hoffer said:


> Yeah, these kind of things aren't even news anymore. We see this same story every couple months. They always end up figuring things out.
> 
> Is AMC on Dish yet? I remember that was one of these things where both actually held out and for a long time. It might still be going on.


Dish and Amc had lawsuits. But they settled a d it is on.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> I know, but I meant that Time Warner couldn't *actually* drop them, if CBS didn't ask for money.


I think how it works is once CBS asks for re-transmission fees, they waive their "must-carry" status. So, in this case, TWC CAN drop them. So, you are correct, if CBS didn't ask the fees, they would be covered by "Must Carry". Of course that only applies to CBS owned affiliates.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

When I lived in the LA area my TiVo was never set to KCAL. It used tonshow better programming


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

What is the longest one of these major 4 networks were dropped from a provider?

I've seen the notices, but haven't ever been affected.

Just curious.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Supposedly, CBS and Showtime were off the air in a few major markets for about 20 minutes on Monday night before the two sides worked things out. Luckily, my cable co. seems to be behind the curve on all these negotiations, so they just come in and accept whatever the established rate is after the other people fight it out.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

mattack said:


> Wait, can't CBS pull the "Must Carry" card?


They can pull the 'must carry' card if they do not charge for retransmission.

Alot of locals here in Boston did just that. Since carrying a station on cable lets a LP-TV (Low Power), or digital extra channel, like 5-2 charge more for commercials because they can claim higher viewership. ("Well, we are on FIOS in Boston, which has 160,000 subscribers, so we can assume 2% watch our channel every week").

I was on Arbitron rating as a 'pager wearer' for 2 years, just ended. It is pretty amazing how the ratings stuff works.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Breaking news from USA Today. Time Warner drops CBS in NYC, LA, and Dallas.


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

In those markets what are the other cable options?


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

PCurry57 said:


> Don't be the only one who can't see NCIS, The Big Bang Theory, 2 Broke Girls, The NFL on CBS, The PGA Tour, SEC Football, NCIS: Los Angeles, Person of Interest, Elementary, Hawaii Five-0, The Mentalist, The Good Wife and the final season of How I Met Your Mother.


And not a single show I watch listed.  I know they're popular with other viewers, but I just think it's funny that their "look what you'll miss out on" list is meaningless to me.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MrGreg said:


> And not a single show I watch listed.  I know they're popular with other viewers, but I just think it's funny that their "look what you'll miss out on" list is meaningless to me.


It just means you're out of touch, since CBS is the top-rated broadcast network and several of the shows listed are among the higest-rated shows on TV. Probably not something you want to be bragging about.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Is CBS planning on reducing their advertising rates of they lose a bunch of households?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Is CBS planning on reducing their advertising rates of they lose a bunch of households?


They won't be losing a bunch of households. This will get resolved within a few days. No big deal except for those who actually live in one of those cities and miss something they were hoping to see over the weekend.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

Both Ch 2 and 9 are out here in LA.  I watch a lot of ch 9 news.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Glad of 2 things: 
1. I'm on DTv not TWC
2. It's Rerun season.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Time Warner isn't in my area so I'm not affected. And if I was, losing CBS wouldn't be too bad since I can get it with an antenna, I would have to watch it live, though.
What would bother me is losing Showtime and missing Dexter. I have to wonder if you can watch it online through Showtime's webpage, or are Time Warner subscribers blacked out from even doing that?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I prefer to watch with CBS with an antenna as I get a better picture with it than I do with Time-Warner.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't know whether this would be legal under the Cable Act or not, but cable companies should do like TiVo and have hookups for both cable and antenna on their cable boxes. Then, they should agree to only carry broadcast stations in a opt-in package, for those who either are out of signal range, or for those who for whatever reason do not want to hook an antenna up.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

PCurry57 said:


> can't see NCIS, The Big Bang Theory, 2 Broke Girls, The NFL on CBS, The PGA Tour, SEC Football, NCIS: Los Angeles, Person of Interest, Elementary, Hawaii Five-0, The Mentalist, The Good Wife and the final season of How I Met Your Mother.
> 
> 
> MrGreg said:
> ...


I realize we're all different, and everyone has their own must-see TV list, but I have five shows I love on that list, and I don't even watch sports. Luckily I'm on Comcast, plus I have a very good roof mounted antenna hooked up to two older S3s.

Its hard to believe you don't watch a *single* one of those. What DO you watch?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Snappa77 said:


> In those markets what are the other cable options?


In Dallas, there aren't any.

As long as it's back before Under The Dome on Monday. Or maybe, not even then. That show is getting dumb.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I prefer to watch with CBS with an antenna as I get a better picture with it than I do with Time-Warner.


I pulled out my HD antenna so I could watch the Rangers Game tonight.

You are so correct. MUCH better picture than I get with Time Warner.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> In Dallas, there aren't any.
> 
> As long as it's back before Under The Dome on Monday. Or maybe, not even then. That show is getting dumb.


I just hope it's back before football season..


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

If the government would drop its antiquated rule bought and paid for by the NAB that prohibits cable and satellite providers from importing network channels from outside the "significantly viewed OTA range", this would all go away. The cable company would just find the cheapest affiliate willing to sell them the CBS programming, from whatever state, and carry it. Then the local channels would cry and beg the cable and satellite companies to carry their signals. Blame the government for this anti-competitive rule.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

When I was a kid, our cable company carried two feeds of one of the networks and I could watch blacked out Dodger games on the Bakersfield channel. Now I haven't zillion channels but the networks are all just one feed. A related cable channel carries network programming if the network is carrying a Giants game.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm just pissed a third of my screen is covered up with these annoying bugs about this. I'm not a TWC customer nor could I be, so why should I suffer this? More than once it covered subtitles on Big Brother.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> As long as it's back before Under The Dome on Monday. Or maybe, not even then. That show is getting dumb.


It's on Amazon Prime Streaming if you miss it.


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## Sromkie (Aug 15, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Time Warner isn't in my area so I'm not affected. And if I was, losing CBS wouldn't be too bad since I can get it with an antenna, I would have to watch it live, though.
> What would bother me is losing Showtime and missing Dexter. I have to wonder if you can watch it online through Showtime's webpage, or are Time Warner subscribers blacked out from even doing that?


I haven't read anything related to streaming of Showtime content, but since Showtime VOD would require a subscription to Showtime, I imagine streaming would be blocked.

This article claims that CBS has blocked Time Warner customers from even streaming full episodes from CBS.com.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/02/cb...ibers-from-watching-full-episodes-on-cbs-com/


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Time Warner sent me a "helpful" email last night to tell me about their blacking out CBS.


If I have time later, I'll post a picture of the blurb they are broadcasting on CBS.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

In retaliation for TWC blocking CBS, CBS has fired back by blocking any one who has a TWC internet connection from streaming anything on CBS.com.

If you do have Showtime, TWC is promising $ credits and has made either Encore and Startz available for free - - - as a courtesy.

What are we 12?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

thanks for heads up, just checked got Starz. Encore has always been free.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> In retaliation for TWC blocking CBS, CBS has fired back by blocking any one who has a TWC internet connection from streaming anything on CBS.com.


Hey, CBS, if I send you a copy of my DirecTV statement, will you unblock my IP address? 

(Not that I actually have any interest in watching anything on CBS.com.)


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> I don't know whether this would be legal under the Cable Act or not, but *cable companies should do like TiVo and have hookups for both cable and antenna on their cable boxes.* Then, they should agree to only carry broadcast stations in a opt-in package, for those who either are out of signal range, or for those who for whatever reason do not want to hook an antenna up.


 TiVo doesn't do that anymore. The 4-tuner boxes only have cable hookup - no antenna. I really wanted one until I heard that since I'm thinking of cutting the cord on cable.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Time Warner sent me a "helpful" email last night to tell me about their blacking out CBS.
> 
> 
> If I have time later, I'll post a picture of the blurb they are broadcasting on CBS.


Does it look like this?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> Does it look like this?


Interesting.

Time Warner is also fighting with Journal Broadcast Group, which has meant a blackout for Milwaukee's NBC affiliate (among other stations elsewhere).

Here's Milwaukee's blackout screen:









At least their blackout screens have fairly decent graphic design.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nirisahn said:


> TiVo doesn't do that anymore. The 4-tuner boxes only have cable hookup - no antenna. I really wanted one until I heard that since I'm thinking of cutting the cord on cable.


Go to Weaknees for Tivo Premiere.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> Does it look like this?


Yep, although they switch to something more like Loadstar's pic today.

(For some reason, my TiVos are refusing to transfer files to the pc.)


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Yep, although they switch to something more like Loadstar's pic today.
> 
> (For some reason, my TiVos are refusing to transfer files to the pc.)


I just took a picture of my TV screen to get the image above (hence why it is slightly off-angle... used a monopod, not a tripod).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> I just hope it's back before football season..


It will be back in a few days.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Just one more reason to dump cable. This isn't going to stop happening. What other industry throws their customers to the wolves and actively pushes their customers to get involved in a contract negotiation (by contacting TWC or CBS). It's not difficult to obtain most of this programming illegally. So who is really going to lose?


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

trainman said:


> Hey, CBS, if I send you a copy of my DirecTV statement, will you unblock my IP address?
> 
> (Not that I actually have any interest in watching anything on CBS.com.)


If they had anyone with any brains, they would just link your provider account to their web page, so you had to log in through your providers page, like CNN does.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

Letterman had a pretty funny bit about this. He ran the announcement of all the CBS shows you would miss, then looked deadpan into the camera for few seconds....All your favorite shows? (his was not on the list)

cut the cord 3 years ago and never looked back....OTA!


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Still have CBS in CFL but lost all Showtime/TMC as I guess everyone did with TWC. Noticed that now working are Encore, FXMC, Fear, IFC. Don't see anything worth watching on any of those channels.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> In retaliation for TWC blocking CBS, CBS has fired back by blocking any one who has a TWC internet connection from streaming anything on CBS.com.


Confirmed here in Northeast Ohio, where CBS.com streaming no longer works on Time Warner Internet service.

We're not one of the affected TV markets. Our CBS affiliate is owned by Raycom, and is on TWC's video service with no problem. (They have a dispute that has them off Dish Network, but that's another story entirely.)

tv.com (CBS video app) on my Android phone doesn't stream anything with TWC-fed WiFi, but does on the phone's 4G connection with WiFi off.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

I thought cbs was back, until I realized they were showing starz kids/family in its spot.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Edmund said:


> I thought cbs was back, until I realized they were showing starz kids/family in its spot.


They are doing this in Dallas too. Of course, it's not HD. It's SD that's been zoomed in. 

Gee, thanks Time Warner. Eff you.

And you to CBS.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm not personally affected since I have Comcast, but this still really upsets me, and I hope it doesn't become a trend. Why should this bickering cause the subscribers to suffer a loss of service? I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't this be considered a breach of contract? (i.e, subscribers have a contractual agreement for which they are receiving a service.)


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Apparently those of us who wound up with Earthlink when our local mom and pop got bought out and can only get it over cable via TWC are also screwed watching anything from CBS online even though we can still get the local CBS broadcast affiliate (not a CBS O&O) via cable, so I hope nothing pre-empts their soaps before this gets straightened out or I'm going to have to explain to my mom why she can't catch it online either.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

unitron said:


> Apparently those of us who wound up with Earthlink when our local mom and pop got bought out and can only get it over cable via TWC are also screwed watching anything from CBS online even though we can still get the local CBS broadcast affiliate (not a CBS O&O) via cable, so I hope nothing pre-empts their soaps before this gets straightened out or I'm going to have to explain to my mom why she can't catch it online either.


Why not go through Tor? Wouldn't Tor hide the fact to CBS that you have TW as internet provider?


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

Here's what I get with TWC Internet service:










TWC cable service here, too, but I'm nowhere near any of the affected CBS O&O markets. Our affiliate (Raycom's WOIO/19) is just fine with TWC cable, carriage wise.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

The local affiliate has been forced to start running ads telling people that the Time Warner-CBS conflict doesn't affect them, all because of CBS's ham-handed propaganda that doesn't distinguish O&O stations from affiliates.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

brianric said:


> Why not go through Tor? Wouldn't Tor hide the fact to CBS that you have TW as internet provider?


I successfully used the Tor browser (self-contained) to hide my TWC origins. But it said it needed Flash Player installed.

The Tor browser looks like a different version of Firefox, but I don't know if just running Vidalia and Firefox (the installed version I have) would work, or if more configuration would be needed.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

With the local CH9 blocked, you think the espn telecast of the Dodgers Monday will be available to those effected?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> Just one more reason to dump cable. This isn't going to stop happening. What other industry throws their customers to the wolves and actively pushes their customers to get involved in a contract negotiation (by contacting TWC or CBS). * It's not difficult to obtain most of this programming illegally. So who is really going to lose?*


The person who obtains the program illegally and gets caught of course!!

I'm assuming that by cable you mean pay providers including satellite and fiber?

Unless you want to go the illegal route, I'd bet there will be a time when the Neflix's and Hulu's and other online content providers will be fighting the same fight (and yes, I know Hulu is owned by some of the networks....for now).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

javabird said:


> I'm not personally affected since I have Comcast, but this still really upsets me, and I hope it doesn't become a trend. Why should this bickering cause the subscribers to suffer a loss of service? I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't this be considered a breach of contract? (i.e, subscribers have a contractual agreement for which they are receiving a service.)


Unfortunately, it IS a trend. As most broadcast networks move away from "must carry" to transmission fees to rake in more bucks, we are seeing this more and more. It's been a trend for years with cable channels and more recently the broadcast nets. I can't think of a provider in my area that hasn't gone through any of this with some channel or another.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Edmund said:


> With the local CH9 blocked, you think the espn telecast of the Dodgers Monday will be available to those effected?


Almost definitely, since you can still get channel 9, just not on cable, therefore the blackout rules still apply.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Edmund said:


> I thought cbs was back, until I realized they were showing starz kids/family in its spot.


I'm not sure why Time Warner thinks this is an adequate substitute.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I am sure they are bluffing, but it would be fun to see how things played out if Time Warner indeed went with an a la carte option for these CBS stations!


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

It would also be interesting to see what would happen if TWC just went bnack to carrying these local CBS affiliates, perhaps putting a "reasonable" fee in an escrow account. (Personally, I don't think they should have to pay _*anything*_ to carry a local OTA station, as long as they transmit it as is and don't insert their own adds. I don't see how the station can claim that they are harmed since it provides access to their programming and advertising to people in their viewing area who might have antenna reception problems.)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> It would also be interesting to see what would happen if TWC just went bnack to carrying these local CBS affiliates, perhaps putting a "reasonable" fee in an escrow account. (Personally, I don't think they should have to pay _*anything*_ to carry a local OTA station, as long as they transmit it as is and don't insert their own adds. I don't see how the station can claim that they are harmed since it provides access to their programming and advertising to people in their viewing area who might have antenna reception problems.)


The network has the choice of requiring that the cable provider carry their programming, in which case there is no fee. The other choice is if the network demands a retransmission fee, then they've waived the "must carry" requirement and they can withhold their programming from anyone until they're paid an amount they feel is fair. In this case, CBS has elected the second option, so the "must carry" status no longer applies and as far as a cable provider is concerned, CBS is no different than ESPN or History or Discovery.

So I don't think TWC could retransmit the CBS signal and just put what they think is a reasonable amount into escrow. Either there is an agreement stating what TWC's rights are and the amount they have to pay, or there is no agreement and then TWC has no legal right to retransmit the CBS signal, just like a cable co. couldn't transmit ESPN's content without a valid agreement with ESPN.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> The network has the choice of requiring that the cable provider carry their programming, in which case there is no fee. The other choice is if the network demands a retransmission fee, then they've waived the "must carry" requirement and they can withhold their programming from anyone until they're paid an amount they feel is fair. In this case, CBS has elected the second option, so the "must carry" status no longer applies and as far as a cable provider is concerned, CBS is no different than ESPN or History or Discovery.
> 
> So I don't think TWC could retransmit the CBS signal and just put what they think is a reasonable amount into escrow. Either there is an agreement stating what TWC's rights are and the amount they have to pay, or there is no agreement and then TWC has no legal right to retransmit the CBS signal, just like a cable co. couldn't transmit ESPN's content without a valid agreement with ESPN.


There is absolutely no valid comparison between cable only ESPN and something available OTA. It would be an interesting civil court case. How exactly can the local affiliate prove a tort? In fact, if I were an attorney, I would consider filing a class action suit on behalf of viewers in the area who, for one reason or another, can only receive the signal via cable. I would also consider asking the FCC to re-examine the regulations that allow this sort of unconscionable extortion.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> There is absolutely no valid comparison between cable only ESPN and something available OTA. It would be an interesting civil court case. How exactly can the local affiliate prove a tort? In fact, if I were an attorney, I would consider filing a class action suit on behalf of viewers in the area who, for one reason or another, can only receive the signal via cable. I would also consider asking the FCC to re-examine the regulations that allow this sort of unconscionable extortion.


Wouldn't the affiliate be in breach of its contract with CBS if it did something like this?


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## GoHalos (Aug 30, 2006)

This has apparently been good for Aereo:

CBS blackout puts start-up Aereo in the spotlight



> Start-up Aereo is enjoying the spotlight for its online TV service in the wake of a Time Warner Cable-CBS battle over fees that has left major markets with a CBS blackout...
> 
> ...Reports have surfaced that Time Warner may start recommending Aereo to concerned CBS customers as a bargaining chip if the dispute doesn't end soon.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

GoHalos said:


> This has apparently been good for Aereo:
> 
> CBS blackout puts start-up Aereo in the spotlight


Aero operates in New York, Boston, and Atlanta. No Dallas and Los Angeles.
https://aereo.com/coverage


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

And poof! The channels in dispute are gone from my TiVo lineup. Got the message on the TiVo today.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

jsmeeker said:


> And poof! The channels in dispute are gone from my TiVo lineup. Got the message on the TiVo today.


Well that's messed up. Wonder how it'll affect SP's when they come back?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I still had mine. Till about 2 minutes ago. wow that's a lot of channels if you have Showtime.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

Edmund said:


> With the local CH9 blocked, you think the espn telecast of the Dodgers Monday will be available to those effected?


Yes, the game is on and available.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

nirisahn said:


> TiVo doesn't do that anymore. The 4-tuner boxes only have cable hookup - no antenna. I really wanted one until I heard that since I'm thinking of cutting the cord on cable.





brianric said:


> Go to Weaknees for Tivo Premiere.


TiVo.com also has the Premiere, but as nirisahn said, if you want a 4-tuner box, you're screwed.

I really like having a TiVo with OTA. That way if the cable goes out, you can still watch something.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

From the LA Times:

Time Warner chairman proposes offering CBS ala carte.

And the blackout doesn't seem to be affecting the ratings.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

GoHalos said:


> This has apparently been good for Aereo:
> 
> CBS blackout puts start-up Aereo in the spotlight


TWC should be careful doing that. They may lose customers when some folk realize that with Aero, they can get their locals and get content for cable shows by other less expensive means.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Edmund said:


> Yes, the game is on and available.


I'm actually surprised by this, because I thought blackout rules meant everyone, not just some cable companies. Unless it's one of those rare times that ESPN was able to show their broadcast locally even though it's available on a local channel. I've seen this happen occasionally.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

TWC internet customer here. 100+ miles away from the nearest affected CBS station (Dallas). When I go to cbs.com I get the blocked out message. When I turn on my VPN cbs.com works fine. I just have to avoid any VPN servers in the affected cities.

As for Aereo, if you have a VPN provider you can use Aereo even if you don't live in one of the 3 cities they serve. Just connect to a server in one of the cities and register. The first month is free.

There are many good VPNs. I use Witopia and can recommend it but there are others equally good.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

This is actually working out really well for me. CBS is gone, but it's in reruns so it's not like there's anything I'd be watching on that channel anyway. And as a courtesy, TWC enabled the Starz package for me, so now I've got access to a whole bunch of movies that I wouldn't have ordinarily been able to get.

While I hope this gets resolved before the fall TV premieres start, I hope it _doesn't_ get resolved until the end of the week.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> Wouldn't the affiliate be in breach of its contract with CBS if it did something like this?


Did something like what? It's the CBS owned affiliates that have demanded an increase in their "retransmission fees" and I'm saying that TWC should carry the stations anyway and fight it out in court.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Did something like what? It's the CBS owned affiliates that have demanded an increase in their "retransmission fees" and I'm saying that TWC should carry the stations anyway and fight it out in court.


What you, or somebody, said is they should bring in a non CBS owned affiliate from a different market, and/or that the FCC rule prohibiting that is what's standing in the way of that.

If the non-CBS owned affiliate in Billings, Montana offered a cable company the right to retransmit its signal to the cable company's customers in California, I think CBS would sue them, because, I can only assume, there's something in the contract between CBS and the affiliate prohibiting it. And/or there's an acknowledgement that the affiliate's distribution of CBS programming outside of some defined geographic area is copyright infringement.

Now, if this was a different dispute, where Time Warner was having a dispute with a non owned affiliate, and CBS itself said here, take WCBS New York instead, you might have a different issue. Or you might not. There might be two way covenants like that in the affiliation agreement.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> What you, or somebody, said is they should bring in a non CBS owned affiliate from a different market, and/or that the FCC rule prohibiting that is what's standing in the way of that.


It wasn't me that said it.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> It wasn't me that said it.


Looks like I quoted the wrong post. My apologies. This was the post I should have quoted.



Davelnlr_ said:


> If the government would drop its antiquated rule bought and paid for by the NAB that prohibits cable and satellite providers from importing network channels from outside the "significantly viewed OTA range", this would all go away. The cable company would just find the cheapest affiliate willing to sell them the CBS programming, from whatever state, and carry it. Then the local channels would cry and beg the cable and satellite companies to carry their signals. Blame the government for this anti-competitive rule.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I get both Washington and Baltimore local network affiliates on FIOS, but I choose to record and watch them via OTA antenna. FWIW, my local CBS affiliate is owned by CBS (formerly Westinghouse).


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

busyba said:


> This is actually working out really well for me. CBS is gone, but it's in reruns so it's not like there's anything I'd be watching on that channel anyway. And as a courtesy, TWC enabled the Starz package for me, so now I've got access to a whole bunch of movies that I wouldn't have ordinarily been able to get.
> 
> While I hope this gets resolved before the fall TV premieres start, I hope it _doesn't_ get resolved until the end of the week.


There is a series on cbs showing first run shows now, Unforgettable on Sundays.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

rahnbo said:


> Well that's messed up. Wonder how it'll affect SP's when they come back?


hmm.. good question. I should check on mine.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

busyba said:


> This is actually working out really well for me. CBS is gone, but it's in reruns so it's not like there's anything I'd be watching on that channel anyway. And as a courtesy, TWC enabled the Starz package for me, so now I've got access to a whole bunch of movies that I wouldn't have ordinarily been able to get.
> 
> While I hope this gets resolved before the fall TV premieres start, I hope it _doesn't_ get resolved until the end of the week.


Did they give it to you in HD? I get it in zoomed in SD. 

My season passes are there. Channel number is right. But the channel "name" is wrong. I suspect when they add them back in, all will be well.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Did they give it to you in HD? I get it in zoomed in SD.


That's weird.

I have it in HD. They're the exact same channels that I would be using if I actually subscribed to them.

I also have the SD versions, on different channel numbers.

Are you sure you're dialed into the correct channel number?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

My Starz HD is HD


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

brianric said:


> Why not go through Tor? Wouldn't Tor hide the fact to CBS that you have TW as internet provider?


I ain't that 'leet.

I'm still trying to figure out how to burn .tivo files to DVD, and haven't gotten as far as knowing whether to use +R or -R blanks.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

aindik said:


> If the non-CBS owned affiliate in Billings, Montana offered a cable company the right to retransmit its signal to the cable company's customers in California, I think CBS would sue them, because, I can only assume, there's something in the contract between CBS and the affiliate prohibiting it.


There might be now, but when I first got into C band, you could subscribe to a set of network channels from either New York, Denver, or Los Angeles. I enjoyed it, because I could come home late, and still catch all the shows on the west coast feed. Then the rules were changed, making it illegal to sell out of market signals if a local signal was available. It was the FCC that changed the rule. I have no clue as to the current contract contents for the smaller local affiliates.

I do know you can watch all the networks in HD, with a C band dish, for free right now. They are all unscrambled somewhere up there, if someone were desperate to get them and had the space for a 10' dish.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Here in Columbus Ohio we lost Showtime as well although our local CBS affiliate is still on the air on Time Warner Cable.

Yesterday I got a message from my TiVO that it deleted a number of what appears to be CBS owned channels including

Smithsonian Channel
All the Showtime channels (SHO, SHO2, SHOCSHD, SHOXHD etc...)
Various TMC Channels
FLIX, NEXT , WOMEN, FAMZ etc...

I know CBS is having a spat with Time Warner Cable, but isn't it strange that the channels would be dropped this soon from the TiVo guide? 

Also they gave us STARZ HD (really HD) here in Columbus.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> isn't it strange that the channels would be dropped from the TiVo guide?


i thought it was strange also but then again - the TiVo guide relies on programming data from your cable company so - i guess not _THAT_ strange.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Does anyone know if our season passes will come back if and when they restore those channels??


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

George Cifranci said:


> Here in Columbus Ohio we lost Showtime as well although our local CBS affiliate is still on the air on Time Warner Cable.
> 
> Yesterday I got a message from my TiVO that it deleted a number of what appears to be CBS owned channels including
> 
> ...


we got the same deal in Cleveland - still have CBS, but no Showtime. Grrr...


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

George Cifranci said:


> Does anyone know if our season passes will come back if and when they restore those channels??


yes


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> Does anyone know if our season passes will come back if and when they restore those channels??


My season passes are still intact. They seem to be attached to the channel number.

Looking at the SP Manager, the SP that once looked like:

Two Broke Girls (702 WCBSHD)

now looks like

Two Broke Girls (702 TWC)

I imagine the opposite transformation will take place when the channels come back.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Smithsonian? Wow, even if you never watch CBS this has impact. Comcast doesn't seem to get into these spats


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Davelnlr_ said:


> There might be now, but when I first got into C band, you could subscribe to a set of network channels from either New York, Denver, or Los Angeles. I enjoyed it, because I could come home late, and still catch all the shows on the west coast feed. Then the rules were changed, making it illegal to sell out of market signals if a local signal was available. It was the FCC that changed the rule. I have no clue as to the current contract contents for the smaller local affiliates.
> 
> I do know you can watch all the networks in HD, with a C band dish, for free right now. They are all unscrambled somewhere up there, if someone were desperate to get them and had the space for a 10' dish.


In NY and LA the network owns the affiliate stations. Not sure about Denver. That's different from some rogue affiliate making his signal available nationally.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

If I wasn't receiving a channel I'd want my TiVo guide to reflect that ASAP.


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> Did they give it to you in HD? I get it in zoomed in SD.


I'm also in DFW. There is an SD Starz Kids & Family at 375 to replace CBS, and an HD version up in the 800 range to replace Showtime. What's weird is that the two channels are showing different content.

Maybe you only receive the HD Starz block in the 800s if you subscribed to Showtime?


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

After watching this drama, I really hope the next version of Tivo has an OTA tuner (or at least as an accessory)


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

What good is it to get Starz channels if you already subscribe to Starz? Do those people get a refund?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jamesbobo said:


> What good is it to get Starz channels if you already subscribe to Starz? Do those people get a refund?


I think the Starz thing was described by TWC as a "courtesy", not compensation.

I believe that they are also giving a refund on the Showtime subscription (and whatever other premium channels have been blacked out), although that doesn't apply to me since my building gets Showtime for free as part of the bulk deal.

I'm not sure if there's a refund forthcoming based on the CBS outage. If there even is, I can't imagine it would be much, considering the total number of channels you get for the amount you pay for just for the level of service that includes CBS.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> Here in Columbus Ohio we lost Showtime as well although our local CBS affiliate is still on the air on Time Warner Cable.





markymark_ctown said:


> we got the same deal in Cleveland - still have CBS, but no Showtime. Grrr...


This is a dispute with the CBS owned-and-operated stations, not the network itself.

In Columbus, the CBS affiliate is WBNS/10, which is owned by Dispatch Broadcast Group.

Here in Cleveland, the CBS affiliate is WOIO/19, which is owned by Raycom Media.

Thus, they're still on TWC in both cases. Showtime is gone because it's 100% owned by CBS nationwide (no affiliates, because it's a cable network).

"CBS 19", in a separate dispute between Raycom and Dish Network, is off Dish Network. But that doesn't affect WOIO on TWC.

As noted earlier, CBS.com video is blocked for all TWC Internet customers, even those in markets like Cleveland and Columbus, where the TWC video feed is unaffected.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Inundated said:


> As noted earlier, CBS.com video is blocked for all TWC Internet customers, even those in markets like Cleveland and Columbus, where the TWC video feed is unaffected.


Is this legal? It seems like it shouldn't be. I hope the government steps in at some point.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

sieglinde said:


> Smithsonian? Wow, even if you never watch CBS this has impact. Comcast doesn't seem to get into these spats


Everyone gets into them. You just don't notice them unless they get to the point where channels get dropped.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DaveDFW said:


> I'm also in DFW. There is an SD Starz Kids & Family at 375 to replace CBS, and an HD version up in the 800 range to replace Showtime. What's weird is that the two channels are showing different content.
> 
> Maybe you only receive the HD Starz block in the 800s if you subscribed to Showtime?


This must be, since I don't subscribe to any premium channels.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> Is this legal? It seems like it shouldn't be. I hope the government steps in at some point.


I'm not sure there's any law requiring CBS to serve up online video on its website to any specific customers.

It is a stupid move, because it makes people like me - in markets not at all affected by the sniping between CBS and TWC - mad at CBS. And there are PLENTY of TWC RoadRunner HSI subscribers who do not get the video service.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Inundated said:


> I'm not sure there's any law requiring CBS to serve up online video on its website to any specific customers.
> 
> It is a stupid move, because it makes people like me - in markets not at all affected by the sniping between CBS and TWC - mad at CBS. And there are PLENTY of TWC RoadRunner HSI subscribers who do not get the video service.


Is it CBS that's blocking their online content from TWC subscribers, or is it TWC who is blocking their subscribers from CBS content. I thought it was the latter.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Is it CBS that's blocking their online content from TWC subscribers, or is it TWC who is blocking their subscribers from CBS content. I thought it was the latter.


The block at CBS.com is coming directly from CBS - I even posted a screengrab of what CBS serves up to TWC Internet subscribers earlier in this thread.

It is presumably meant to get TWC customers who are trying to get around the dispute upset at their cable company.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Right. TWC actually suggested that people just go get the stuff on-line. Of course, that's not gonna work now for TWC cable customers that are also TWC Internet customers.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> Is this legal? It seems like it shouldn't be. I hope the government steps in at some point.


Probably not but it is a very anti-consumer d-bag move and if Net neutrality ever moves forward acts like this should be included.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Right. TWC actually suggested that people just go get the stuff on-line. Of course, that's not gonna work now for TWC cable customers that are also TWC Internet customers.


Something here about CBS cutting off its nose to spite its face...the block also affects TWC cable customers, like myself, where the TWC system has no dispute with the CBS affiliate's owner.

And, TWC Internet customers, even in the CBS O&O markets, who do not subscribe to TWC's video service.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

Suddenly Cozi tv and Antenna tv showed up. I don't know if its due to the cbs and twc conflict or not?


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

Edmund said:


> Suddenly Cozi tv and Antenna tv showed up. I don't know if its due to the cbs and twc conflict or not?


What TV market (area)?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Edmund said:


> Suddenly Cozi tv and Antenna tv showed up. I don't know if its due to the cbs and twc conflict or not?





Inundated said:


> What TV market (area)?


I think Edmund is getting the So Cal market so I don't think it's related.

Cozi has been showing OTA on a subchannel of the NBC O&A for a while now.
Antenna TV is OTA on a subchannel of the CW affiliate (KTLA).


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

Yes, I'm in the San Fernando valley of LA county, I have locals with my internet package from TWC. Suddenly yesterday ch 4.2 cozi tv, and 5.2 antenna tv were on. So its coincidence they showed up now.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

How long did past disputes took to resolve? I've only been with Time Warner for less than 2 years so this is my first blackout ever. It seems like it's taking a long time to get settled but maybe this is par for the course. I'm not looking for speculation on what could possibly be happening behind closed doors or opinions on which side is more at fault. It's not that I don't care because I do. It's just that in this case what I'm looking for is some historical context to see how this fight compares to previous ones.

*EDIT:* Apparently I have sat through one of these from early last year when MSG was blacked out in the middle of Linsanity here in NYC. That one lasted less than a week so this one is going on for much longer. Do people recall others that came before it and how long they took?


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

mlsnyc said:


> How long past disputes took to resolve? I've only been with Time Warner for less than 2 years so this is my first blackout ever. It seems like it's taking a long time to get settled but maybe this is par for the course. I'm not looking for speculation on what could possibly be happening behind closed doors or opinions on which side is more at fault. It's not that I don't care because I do. It's just that in this case what I'm looking for is some historical context to see how this fight compares to previous ones.


It seems to me here in Columbus, OH with Time Warner Cable they often have disagreements with various providers when it comes time to re-negotiate contracts. Sinclair Broadcast Group comes to mind, the Big 10 Channel etc... Usually they come to an agreement at the last minute and programming isn't usually cut off. Sometimes as with HDNET and HDNET movies they can't come to an agreement and they drop the channel (and replace it with pure crap like MAVTV). I think the issue with CBS/Showtime etc... with the channels actually being dropped from my TiVo guide are probably the most significant (mainly because I am a Showtime subscriber) that I have seen (or at least noticed).


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

CBS has Giants-Broncos in week 2 (September 15). If New Yorkers can't watch the Giants all hell will break loose. So, it should be resolved by then.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

aindik said:


> CBS has Giants-Broncos in week 2 (September 15). If New Yorkers can't watch the Giants all hell will break loose. So, it should be resolved by then.


I wouldn't be surprised if CBS allowed TWC in New York to air the Giants game even if WCBS (e.g.) is otherwise unavailable - a few years ago, when ABC cut off a cable company in the San Francisco area from its local ABC station, they allowed two shows to air; a 49ers Monday Night Football game, and the Oscars.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if CBS allowed TWC in New York to air the Giants game even if WCBS (e.g.) is otherwise unavailable


I would. This dispute (along with the Journal Broadcasting one that is also going on right now) is already far, far nastier than any of the previous ones that I recall. I can't see *any* concessions being given. In fact, I can see something like that being held over the head of Time Warner Cable to get them to give in.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

So seems like besides feeling this is going on longer than usual I'm also not alone in getting the sense this one is nastier than the ones before it.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

mlsnyc said:


> So seems like besides feeling this is going on longer than usual I'm also not alone in getting the sense this one is nastier than the ones before it.


Yeah. I knew it was getting serious when my TiVo reported that the Showtime and other CBS owned channels were being dropped from the guide data.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I think no matter what happens we (consumers) will lose here.
TWC has put a spotlight on the retransmission fee issue, which obviously consumers shouldn't be a fan of. If TWC has to pay more money to rebroadcast shows it will obviously make cable TV more expensive..

The other issue which I think TWC is more focused on is blocking CBS from allowing Netflix, Sony, Intel and the like from streaming content. I believe this is the bigger issue in TWC's point of view. Young people watch less TV, and when they do they're fine with watching it on a laptop or PC. Add devices such as Roku, Google/AppleTV, the upcoming devices from Intel/Sony. TWC sees a trend they do no like.

I think if TWC got what they wanted and at least for a time had CBS unable to put their shows on those other providers they would easily accept the retransmission fee hike (and push the costs down to us), knowing that their customers in their monopolized areas would be unable to drop TWC for Comcast or something and also unable to watch CBS shows on other mediums..


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Fortunately they can't keep me from receiving it via free-space RF.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

loubob57 said:


> Fortunately they can't keep me from receiving it via free-space RF.


If you've been watching the Aero articles, CBS and FOX have threatened to leave OTA all together. I'm also looking for an article I read a while ago where the FCC said they want to pay the TV networks to drop their airpsace so they can sell it to the wireless providers. The current TV airspace would make wireless a lot better.. I'll edit this post once I find it.

The Cable Co's would be happy, and the networks would be happy if OTA was dead.
Edit:
This is the closest thing I could find on the networks dropping OTA and get money from FCC.

TimeWarner Cable vs Intel


> Comcast, just happens to be legally prohibited from making deals that would block streaming services.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

robojerk said:


> If you've been watching the Aero articles, CBS and FOX have threatened to leave OTA all together. I'm also looking for an article I read a while ago where the FCC said they want to pay the TV networks to drop their airpsace so they can sell it to the wireless providers. The current TV airspace would make wireless a lot better.. I'll edit this post once I find it.
> 
> The Cable Co's would be happy, and the networks would be happy if OTA was dead.


The "networks" might be happy, but there are a lot more than just the networks who have TV broadcasting licenses.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

robojerk said:


> I'm also looking for an article I read a while ago where the FCC said they want to pay the TV networks to drop their airpsace so they can sell it to the wireless providers. The current TV airspace would make wireless a lot better.. I'll edit this post once I find it.
> 
> The Cable Co's would be happy, and the networks would be happy if OTA was dead.
> Edit:
> ...


The airspace that the FCC is talking about is the former frequencies that were devoted to the analog stations. Quite frankly if Fox and CBS decided to drop their OTA broadcast is should be an automatic forfeiture of those frequencies with no compensation by the government.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

brianric said:


> The airspace that the FCC is talking about is the former frequencies that were devoted to the analog stations. Quite frankly if Fox and CBS decided to drop their OTA broadcast is should be an automatic forfeiture of those frequencies with no compensation by the government.


The networks aren't the ones holding the broadcast licenses. it is the broadcast stations, most of which are not owned by a network and not all of which are even affiliated with a network.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

If this drags into football season, I am gonna need to figure out if I can setup some sort of indoor antenna. Though I don't quite know where I would put it.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

brianric said:


> The airspace that the FCC is talking about is the former frequencies that were devoted to the analog stations. Quite frankly if Fox and CBS decided to drop their OTA broadcast is should be an automatic forfeiture of those frequencies with no compensation by the government.


The analog stations and the digital stations are all in the same set of frequencies, except for channels 52-69 which the FCC already took back as part of the digital transition, and auctioned off in 2009.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> If this drags into football season, I am gonna need to figure out if I can setup some sort of indoor antenna. Though I don't quite know where I would put it.


Try a Mohu Leaf. You could easily hang it behind a poster or other artwork on the wall, or behind an entertainment center, or possibly even just attached to the back of the TV itself.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Try a Mohu Leaf. You could easily hang it behind a poster or other artwork on the wall, or behind an entertainment center, or possibly even just attached to the back of the TV itself.


wow.. That's awesome. If it comes to it, I'll seriously give it consideration.

Thanks.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

mlsnyc said:


> So seems like besides feeling this is going on longer than usual I'm also not alone in getting the sense this one is nastier than the ones before it.


This hasn't even come close to some of the worst blackouts (some of these were regional).

AMC and Dish was over 3 months.
Tribune and Cablevision was two months.
Northwest Broadcasting and Directv was 9 weeks.
Cordillera Communications and Time Warner was over 5 months.
Comcast Sportsnet and Directv has been 5 months and is still ongoing.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Comcast SportsNet Philly and DirecTV has lasted for decades.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

Raycom Media (local affiliate owner) and Dish was about 10 days.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> This hasn't even come close to some of the worst blackouts (some of these were regional).
> 
> AMC and Dish was over 3 months.
> Tribune and Cablevision was two months.
> ...


Dish and all of the NY sports networks have been pretty much for years.

DirecTV and Comcast over the old Vs. sports network (now NBCSN) lasted most of a full hockey season.

It may be one of the longest between a cable provider and a big 4 network O&O. If I'm TWC, and this heads into football season, I'm offering free OTA antennas to all my customers who want one.

I have a hard time "choosing sides" in these disputes. I know if the shoe was reversed and a TW channel and a CBS owned cable company, we'd see the same thing. I've seen that happen more than once. I always cite the Cablevision and MSG fights before CV owned them. And then after CV bought them, they had the same exact fight with TW over the channels that they fought AGAINST when MSG was NOT owned by them.

Ultimately, the consumer loses as we pay for this. And btw, the consumer ultimately pays for the advertising by both sides to fight against this!!


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

LoadStar said:


> Try a Mohu Leaf. You could easily hang it behind a poster or other artwork on the wall, or behind an entertainment center, or possibly even just attached to the back of the TV itself.


This looks great! Only problem is when I list my address in NYC the list of channels it thinks I should get doesn't include CBS. But the map for the Ultimate model covers a lot of the metro area, and I would think CBS would have some tower within that pretty large region.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

mlsnyc said:


> This looks great! Only problem is when I list my address in NYC the list of channels it thinks I should get doesn't include CBS. But the map for the Ultimate model covers a lot of the metro area, and I would think CBS would have some tower within that pretty large region.


Any address that's in NYC (literally the five boroughs) should be within 35 miles of the transmitter for WCBS-TV, which, like most everyone else, is at the top of the Empire State Building.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

aindik said:


> Any address that's in NYC (literally the five boroughs) should be within 35 miles of the transmitter for WCBS-TV, which, like most everyone else, is at the top of the Empire State Building.


Off topic but curious. Anyone know if there are plans to move the antennas to the Freedom Tower when it's complete? It will be taller than the ESB (well I think it's already taller). The antennas used to be on one of the WTC buildings.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Off topic but curious. Anyone know if there are plans to move the antennas to the Freedom Tower when it's complete? It will be taller than the ESB (well I think it's already taller). The antennas used to be on one of the WTC buildings.


I haven't read anything but I would think the existence of the Freedom Tower would screw up reception of TV signals from ESB. Which, if true, would mean they'd have to move.

FM radio transmitters have always been on ESB even pre 9/11 and will probably stay there.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

aindik said:


> Any address that's in NYC (literally the five boroughs) should be within 35 miles of the transmitter for WCBS-TV, which, like most everyone else, is at the top of the Empire State Building.


That's what I figured. Curious why their list wouldn't show it. But whatever the case I think both the base and ultimate indoor models are priced reasonably enough for me to check this out. May also eventually shove aside the inertia on my part that keeps me tethered to cable.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Bob Coxner said:


> As for Aereo, if you have a VPN provider you can use Aereo even if you don't live in one of the 3 cities they serve. Just connect to a server in one of the cities and register. The first month is free.


I thought I read that the the credit card billing address has to be in their viewing area. Or have you found otherwise?

Also, what kinds of speeds have you gotten with Witopia (or whatever you currently use)?

-Mike


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## Martyp (Jan 6, 2004)

I am one of the few that I wish directv would let me drop the sports channels.

They are spouse to be included free with my package but was getting charged a 3.00 a month fee.

They gave me a credit for the next year to cover it, but would,love ala cart pricing I could get the channels I want and even if it did not lower my bill all that much I would still love it


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

marrone said:


> I thought I read that the the credit card billing address has to be in their viewing area. Or have you found otherwise?
> 
> Also, what kinds of speeds have you gotten with Witopia (or whatever you currently use)?
> 
> -Mike


You could get a prepaid credit card to avoid any billing address questions. Or, it's a bit more work but you can also add a second address to your credit card billing profile. You could use a fake NYC address. Also, you get the first month free with Aereo.

Oddly enough, I was just testing my speeds a few minutes ago using http://www.speedtest.net/. I have the 20mbps package from TWC. I had Witopia use their Quick Connect feature, which automatically connects you to the nearest and best server. In my case that's about 100 miles away in Austin, Texas. My speed was almost identical without the VPN and with it. 22mbps down and 2.25mbps up. Pings were both around 50.

I then tested using a server in New York City. 20mbps down and 2.1mpbs up. So, there was about a 10% drop in speed using the NYC server but you would obviously never notice it at these speeds. Ping 50.

I then connected to a server in London, the one I use when I want to watch the BBC. 14.5mb down, 2.1mb up. Still excellent speed, although the ping was pretty high at 215. My Pandora music did stop, with a notice that they're only permitted to stream to the US. 

As always, YMMV.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/b...ast-until-nfl-season.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

So if CBS is not on TWC at the start of the NFL season, could advertisers on those games demand a rebate? TWC I believe is still the major Cable provider in Manhattan (not sure about the other boroughs). That would be a significant chunk of viewers in the most lucrative market. If that happens, that could prod CBS to lower their demands.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

CBS doesn't have any local teams in the three affected markets until week 2. Week 1, the Jets are on Fox, the Giants and Cowboys are on NBC (and L.A.'s team is blacked out. ). 

Week 2 CBS has the Giants. That's the big one.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Seems to me like it's Time Warner, not CBS, telling you that you can grab an antenna and watch CBS. 

CBS doesn't want you to use an antenna. They want you to subscribe to a carrier that will pay them.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

CBS wants to charge providers to carry their content, along side selling ad space on their shows.

TWC wants to make exclusive deals with CBS (and presumably other networks) to retain their geographical monopolies and does not want to have to compete with Intel/Sony/Hulu/Netlflix/Amazon/Redbox to complete with TV package.

What I think would be best for consumers if CBS just signed deals with the streaming providers to weaken the Cable Co's death grip on content, and CBS lowered (or dropped) their retransmissions fee nonsense.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Bob Coxner said:


> You could get a prepaid credit card to avoid any billing address questions. Or, it's a bit more work but you can also add a second address to your credit card billing profile. You could use a fake NYC address. Also, you get the first month free with Aereo.


A prepaid card wouldn't trigger an address request? Or will it automatically validate no matter what address you put on it.? I've never used a prepaid card before, so I don't know how that works (and actually was wondering what address to use if I ever did that)

Thanks
-Mike


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

TWC is telling people in Dallas that they can watch the Cowboys next preseason game on the local Telemundo affiliate.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> TWC is telling people in Dallas that they can watch the Cowboys next preseason game on the local Telemundo affiliate.


"fieldgoooooaaaaallllll"


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

aindik said:


> TWC is telling people in Dallas that they can watch the Cowboys next preseason game on the local Telemundo affiliate.


That's what they did here in Milwaukee for the most recent pre-season game; they recommended watching Telemundo for the video, and muting it and listening to the play-by-play over the radio.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

aindik said:


> TWC is telling people in Dallas that they can watch the Cowboys next preseason game on the local Telemundo affiliate.




Thanks for the heads up.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> TWC is telling people in Dallas that they can watch the Cowboys next preseason game on the local Telemundo affiliate.





lpwcomp said:


> "fieldgoooooaaaaallllll"


More like "Intercepcion Roooooooooooooommmooooooooooooooooooo!"


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

busyba said:


> More like "Intercepcion Romooooooooooooooooooooooo"


LMFAO!!



It might be fun to listen to them talk about Romo en Espanõl. Might learn some new put downs.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

marrone said:


> A prepaid card wouldn't trigger an address request? Or will it automatically validate no matter what address you put on it.? I've never used a prepaid card before, so I don't know how that works (and actually was wondering what address to use if I ever did that)
> 
> Thanks
> -Mike


I don't use them myself so I'm not sure about the address part. Visa gift cards don't have an address associated with them, so there would be no address to check. However, I don't know if Aereo would accept those.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/prepaid/gift_card_faq.html

Walmart also sells prepaid cards that can be reloaded. Those do have an address associated but I'm pretty sure you could give any address you like when buying it.

https://www.walmartmoneycard.com/walmart


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

In the next 6 days I will miss 5 Dodger games because they're on KCAL CH 9. The Dodger's have been fun to watch lately, I can't live without my fix.


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## ewolfr (Feb 12, 2001)

Martyp said:


> I am one of the few that I wish directv would let me drop the sports channels.
> 
> They are spouse to be included free with my package but was getting charged a 3.00 a month fee.


We've been paying a surcharge since last year on our Directv bill. Its nice that they gave you a credit for them since according to this: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/10/entertainment/la-et-ct-directv-sports-surcharge-20121210

the main option for a subscriber that doesn't want to pay is to switch to a lower priced package that doesn't include the sports channels.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ewolfr said:


> We've been paying a surcharge since last year on our Directv bill. Its nice that they gave you a credit for them since according to this: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/10/entertainment/la-et-ct-directv-sports-surcharge-20121210
> 
> the main option for a subscriber that doesn't want to pay is to switch to a lower priced package that doesn't include the sports channels.


It also says that "it is only for new DirecTV subscribers". Then again it says "DirecTV has also tested this approach with some current subscribers as well" whatever the heck that means.

They have done this exactly like the cell phone companies did with their stupid "administrative fees". That way they can claim that it isn't a rate increase.


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## ewolfr (Feb 12, 2001)

Or if the promotional rate has expired and a subscriber is subject to whatever the prevailing rate is at that time. There are lots of ways they could apply the fee, just like with the administrative fees you mention. That article is also from back in December. Some things may have changed in how they apply the extra fee these days. But if anything they are probably spreading it to more people.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> It also says that "it is only for new DirecTV subscribers". Then again it says "DirecTV has also tested this approach with some current subscribers as well" whatever the heck that means.


That article is from last December and is out of date -- the regional sports network fee is now being charged to both new and old subscribers in the parts of the country that it affects.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Bob Coxner said:


> I don't use them myself so I'm not sure about the address part. Visa gift cards don't have an address associated with them, so there would be no address to check. However, I don't know if Aereo would accept those.
> 
> http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/prepaid/gift_card_faq.html
> 
> ...


I'll check that out. Thanks.

-Mike


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

mlsnyc said:


> That's what I figured. Curious why their list wouldn't show it. But whatever the case I think both the base and ultimate indoor models are priced reasonably enough for me to check this out. May also eventually shove aside the inertia on my part that keeps me tethered to cable.


Finally got the Leaf delivered from Amazon. All the big networks *except* CBS come in great -- crystal clear and no interference. Oddly enough to get the best reception for CBS, which in my case means less frequent freezes and pixelation that doesn't interrupt the program, is when the Leaf is tucked away in the back of the entertainment center with all the wires, not when it's close to the window or high up on the wall. Go figure.

By the way, TWC offering discounts for antennas...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/23/time-warner-cable-cbs-antennas_n_3806103.html


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I get a chucke out of this tweet from Louis C. K. every time I think about it.



> Hi. I'm on letterman tonight. I can't watch it because I have Time Warner.  Also how are you? Did you fall down recently? I hope not.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Time Warner and CBS have reached an agreement! The terms of the deal have not been made public at this time. Got Time Warner? Check to see if CBS is back on. Showtime subscribers may want to see missed episodes of Dexter via On Demand. There was no episode of Dexter over the Labor Day weekend.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I wonder how long before the channels get added back to our TiVo's?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

been back for a few hours in Dallas. Just need to get the channel added back into my TiVo lineup


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Well we all figured it would be right before the NFL season started....right on schedule.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

TWC sure didn't waste anytime shutting off the free STARZ channel I was getting during the CBS dispute, which is a bummer since there was a number of movies I wanted to see.


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## Inundated (Sep 10, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> TWC sure didn't waste anytime shutting off the free STARZ channel I was getting during the CBS dispute, which is a bummer since there was a number of movies I wanted to see.


Well, Starz was a temporary replacement for Showtime, and Showtime was restored last night...


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## ijgordon (May 21, 2005)

George Cifranci said:


> I wonder how long before the channels get added back to our TiVo's?


Still waiting...at least on the website, a search for "Dexter" returns Dexter's Laboratory and some other random stuff.
I doubt it's back on my Tivo device either.

Come on Tivo!!!


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

ijgordon said:


> Still waiting...at least on the website, a search for "Dexter" returns Dexter's Laboratory and some other random stuff.
> I doubt it's back on my Tivo device either.
> 
> Come on Tivo!!!


They have to wait until they get the official order from TWC that the lineup has been changed.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> They have to wait until they get the official order from TWC that the lineup has been changed.


Tribune has been updated so I expect Tivos in the field will get it in the next day or so.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

They are back on my TiVo. Dunno when the message came in. But it's there now. Wasn't there this morning.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Yup I got them back on my TiVo this evening when I got home.

The thing is, I had season passes for Dexter and Ray Donovan. They are still there, but when I select them in the season pass manager and select view upcoming episodes, it doesn't see any episodes. I also did a search for Dexter and it didn't find it. Does the TiVo need to make another connection to download the guide data for those channels now?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

George Cifranci said:


> Yup I got them back on my TiVo this evening when I got home.
> 
> The thing is, I had season passes for Dexter and Ray Donovan. They are still there, but when I select them in the season pass manager and select view upcoming episodes, it doesn't see any episodes. I also did a search for Dexter and it didn't find it. Does the TiVo need to make another connection to download the guide data for those channels now?


Give it time to update.

I was seeing scheduled recordings for my CBS shows


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