# Which is the better HDD for Roamio upgrade?



## razter (Oct 9, 2011)

I want to upgrade my Roamio from its standard 500MB drive to a 3TB drive and see most folks getting the WD AV-GP 3TB AV SATA II drive (WD30EURS), but I also see a WD AV-GP 3TB AV SATA III drive (WD30EURX) available on Amazon and the WD30EURX seems to have a better max data transfer rate, with all other specs being the same. Besides the superior specification is about a $10 lower cost.

So with that said, would the WD30EURX be a better drive for the Roamio or am I miss-reading something?

Thanks for your input!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Either of those will work. Also, the WD30EFRX red drive will also work.

Tivo does not use any of any drive's special functions.


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## elborak (Jul 15, 2014)

There is a thread on this forum (in fact it's on the first page) that has all the detail (and then some) that you could possibly need on this subject. Just be aware that some forum members hold very strong opinions, and they don't always agree.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

razter said:


> I want to upgrade my Roamio from its standard 500MB drive to a 3TB drive and see most folks getting the WD AV-GP 3TB AV SATA II drive (WD30EURS), but I also see a WD AV-GP 3TB AV SATA III drive (WD30EURX) available on Amazon and the WD30EURX seems to have a better max data transfer rate, with all other specs being the same. Besides the superior specification is about a $10 lower cost.
> 
> So with that said, would the WD30EURX be a better drive for the Roamio or am I miss-reading something?
> 
> Thanks for your input!


I think the only difference between the WD30EURS and the WD30EURX is the speed of the SATA interface circuitry. S = 3Gb/s and X = 6Gb/s. Either of those is far higher than the speed of data transfer from the platters, so either should be fine. I'm not sure whether any TiVos even have SATA-III (6Gb/s) interfaces, but the drives should be backward-compatible.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

According to tech support TiVo only runs at SATA 1.5 which is weird. Even the newest models.


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## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

JWhites said:


> According to tech support TiVo only runs at SATA 1.5 which is weird. Even the newest models.


TiVo's engineers determined that the older standard provided sufficient performance and it was a known item (all drivers were debugged, lower EMI due to the lower clock speed, etc.) so they continued to use it. Switching would require NRE to cover the updating drivers and regression testing. Plus any change in the EMI due to the higher clock speed.

As a consumer I often purchase the newest, fastest option. As an engineer I avoid those unless I really have to use them since I have no idea how reliable they will be.

- Dan


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Another consideration is that SATA 1.5 is plenty fast enough to drive the one or two drives in a TiVo. More advanced SATA makes a difference with RAID or SSD and possibly when reading the same data repeatedly from a cache, but it would be waste of resource to apply it here.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236602

WD AV-GP 3TB - WD30EURX - Plug and play
WD AV-GP 4TB - WD40EURX - Requires some prep work with a PC

Exclusive SilkStream technology 
- Optimized for smooth, continuous digital video playback of multiple simultaneous HD streams.

24x7 reliability for always-on video streaming 
- These drives are designed to last in high-temperature, always-on, digital audio/video environments such as video surveillance systems, PVR/DVR and IPTV.

Ultra-cool operation 
- WD AV-GP drives consume less power during operationwhich means less heat and greater reliability in harsh read/write environments.

Whisper quiet 
- Noise levels have been minimized to less than one sone - virtually below the threshold of human hearing.

Compatible 
- Tested for compatibility in a broad range of AV products including set top boxes, DVD recorders, and mainstream surveillance systems.
Usage
For Video Surveillance.

Regardless of NewEgg claiming there is a newer model available (WD Purple Surveillance PURX series), it is a whole different product, made for use in RAID arrays for motion-activated surveillance cameras. It's not made for consumer DVR use, and while it will "work", the TLER/ERC function can cause problems in a TiVo, which is not designed to work with TLER/ERC enabled RAID drives. They also only have a 60TB/yr total workload rating per drive, which even a 4-tuner TiVo will exceed, due to constant buffering of all tuners, all the time.

The WD Red NAS EFRX series has all the AV-GP has to offer, plus a 120-150TB/yr workload rating per drive (more than double the Purple). But, it is also a TLER/ERC enabled drive, so it can be used in RAID arrays.

I made the switch from AV-GP to Red NAS, and they have been great, except one drive had some weak sectors (not bad, just written weakly, and couldn't read back). It made the TiVo unusable, I had to run a full read test, followed by a full write zeros test, to reclaim the sectors, and start all over. If these weak write sectors had not been in a critical area of the drive, they likely would have just made a glitch in some recordings.

The problem with TLER/ERC enabled drives, is they take away control of error recovery from the TiVo. Since TiVos do not have TLER/ERC enabled drive controllers, any sector with a read or write error gets essentially stuck in limbo, only attempting retries for 7 seconds, per failed read/write, then moving on, rather than letting the drive keep trying, until the TiVo can realize there's a problem, and deal with it.

Regardless of the months I spent unable to figure out what was making that one TiVo an insufferable PITA, I still use Red NAS.

There are Pros and Cons to RAID TLER/ERC enabled drives, but many have no place in a TiVo context.

If you just want to keep it simple, go with the AV-GP. It's what TiVo uses. For about $15 more than a plain WD Green drive, you get a year more warranty (3 yr), and the drive won't stand-out as much as models TiVo doesn't use in any model TiVo. TiVo can tell what drive you have, by looking at the logs your TiVo uploads every day. They still might spot the drive, if they look close enough.

If you want to "cheap-out" and keep it simple, get a WD Green EZRX, with only a 2yr warranty. I'd be wary about how many years these will hold up in a base-Roamio, even more so in a Plus/Pro, due to the extra tuners, and the added load, always being there.

It has come to my attention that WeaKnees is using the Purple PURX drives for some of their upgraded models and upgrade kits. This means they are counting on the drives lasting as long as the warranty they provide, and hoping the RAID Error Recovery Control features don't have to deal with errors in certain critical areas. If this makes you think Purple, then I suggest Red. Why get a 60TB/yr drive, when a 120-150TB/yr drive can be bought for $5-$10 more? Technically a Red should last twice as long, since it won't be always operating above rated workload.

There are Seagate drives that are suitable, and TiVo uses them in some models. But, they tend to cost more. Seagate also has a NAS line has the same RAID-enabled issues, should you get a NAS version.

That's all I feel like discussing. There's a whole thread full of this same info, here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695

Skip the first half of it, as all that info is obsolete. Near the back end of the newer half, you can find all the rest of the info, and plenty of folks who will disagree with everything I say or suggest, and dismiss every concern I ever share. If you want the data, you'll have to sift through the drama.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

As far as SATA version I, II, or III (1.5, 3.0, or 6.0Gb/s), The Roamio will first knock the rate down to SATA I (1.5Gb/s / 150MB/s), then it will downshift to ATA compatibility mode @ 133MB/s, using FPDMA. That's as fast as Green and other low-RPM, low-power profile, drives will operate (50-150MB/s sequential, from the slowest zone to the fastest zone) internally, anyway. Non sequential speed is much slower. The average works just fine at 133MB/s host interface rate.

As others have said, there's nothing to gain from deviating from a mode that works in both adequate speed, and minimizes EMI/RFI (Electromagnetic Interference/Radio Frequency Interference). DVRs don't need burst rate performance, and 6Gbps SATA-III on such a drive is just a fast interface to a slow platter drive. That's what the drive mfg provide, so that's what TiVo gets, as do we.

The older EURS SATA-II drives worked just as well as the new EURX SATA-III drives.


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## razter (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks for all the information, it's great to have knowledgeable folks around to help when making these types of decisions.

I went ahead and ordered the 3TB WD30EURX from Amazon for $135.49 with 2 day Prime delivery. Installed the drive last night in about 30 minutes and the hardest part of the process was getting the cover off of the Roamio (being very careful not to damage the clips on the sides of the cover). About another 30 minutes to run the TiVo setup again and now recording capacity reports up to 477 HD hours or 3286 SD hours... Nice!

So far everything seems to be working well and I'm very pleased with the upgrade. Again, thanks for all the input.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Oh, I didn't realize getting the cover off was harder than on previous Tivos?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

mattack said:


> Oh, I didn't realize getting the cover off was harder than on previous Tivos?


Base Roamio is one many would be best watching a youtube video to understand. It's all snap-fit, and one single T-8 screw. But, there's a non-snap tab in the front that requires a special arced action to unhook, and care to do things right in reverse, putting the top back on (or the tab winds-up above the metal part it's supposed to be underneath).

One you have done a few, it's easy.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Oh, I have a Roamio Plus...


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

ej42137 said:


> Another consideration is that SATA 1.5 is plenty fast enough to drive the one or two drives in a TiVo. More advanced SATA makes a difference with RAID or SSD and possibly when reading the same data repeatedly from a cache, but it would be waste of resource to apply it here.


You mean like the famed TiVo Mega?


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

danm628 said:


> As a consumer I often purchase the newest, fastest option. As an engineer I avoid those unless I really have to use them since I have no idea how reliable they will be.
> 
> - Dan


I completely understand that, but if every engineer or scientist did that wouldn't the momentum of experimenting and exploring new things kinda stall out and get us stuck in a rut? Maybe I'm over thinking this, I keep flashing back to the 80's and its "cutting edge" technology.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

JWhites said:


> You mean like the famed TiVo Mega?


Well, no. If a Roamio with six tuners keeps up, a TiVo Mega with six tuners won't be sending data any faster.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

JWhites said:


> I completely understand that, but if every engineer or scientist did that wouldn't the momentum of experimenting and exploring new things kinda stall out and get us stuck in a rut? Maybe I'm over thinking this, I keep flashing back to the 80's and its "cutting edge" technology.


I was on a big project a long time ago where the newly appointed director was all enthusiastic about using every cutting edge technology that he had ever heard about. Two painful years later we had blown the budget and schedule by twice and he "resigned" in disgrace.

But I hear you. When I build a new computer for myself, I pick the coolest, fastest, baddest parts I can afford, whether I need them or not. If my wife were ever to audit my parts list I'd certainly have some _esplainen_ to do!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> I was on a big project a long time ago where the newly appointed director was all enthusiastic about using every cutting edge technology that he had ever heard about. Two painful years later we had blown the budget and schedule by twice and he "resigned" in disgrace.
> 
> But I hear you. When I build a new computer for myself, I pick the coolest, fastest, baddest parts I can afford, whether I need them or not. If my wife were ever to audit my parts list I'd certainly have some _esplainen_ to do!


That one computer for yourself, you may change your mind if you were building them in volume to sell to other people.


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