# Roamio Plus Gigabit performance



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

I currently have a 4th Gen Airport Extreme that's wired to a Linksys 10/100 switch that my Roamio Plus is connected to.

Using kmttg on a Windows 7 machine, when I go to transfer a show using that setup I get around 85 Mbps transfer (according to kmttg).

Curiously, I bypassed the 10/100 switch to see what increase in speeds I would get using a Gigabit connection. The same transfer was now 128 Mbps.

Shouldn't the gigabit connection be higher than that? Or does the Tivo and kmttg have to do things that add overhead?

Also noticed that in my DHCP client list, the Roamio Plus has 2 MAC addresses? I would imagine one would be the wireless and the other the wired.....but I have the Roamio setup to only be wired? Why would both be showing up? I've never connected my Roamio via wireless and neither of those addresses are in the wireless clients list. Unless they have different chips for 10/100 and 1000?

-Kevin


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The two addresses are for Tivo core functions and the stream functions.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> The two addresses are for Tivo core functions and the stream functions.


Cool. Thanks. Interesting to know.

-Kevin


----------



## HDRyder9 (Aug 2, 2007)

I've always been disappointed with the speed of gigabit Ethernet. In the real world, I typically get about twice the speed of 100bT.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

There's some overhead on the TiVo as it needs to decrypt, demux, remux, re-encrypt while transferring which makes it CPU limited. That's why series 4 transfers were faster than series 3 and now series 5 transfers are faster than series 4. Depending what computer you are using and where you are writing to you may be I/O write speed limited. You *may* be able to speed up by using TS Transfers option in kmttg, but that won't do you much good unless you are using VideoRedo to decrypt instead of tivodecode.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Has anyone done a head-to-head of PS vs. TS on a Plus or Pro? I only have a Base, and they both max out the port. The difference is dramatic on a Premiere.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Testing this, I can transfer a .Tivo file from my Mac to my PC connected to the Airport Extreme via gigabit and I max out at a transfer speed of around 282 Mbps. This is initiating the transfer from the Mac to a shared Windows folder.

Going the other way, transferring from the PC to the Mac (again using the Mac to copy a file from a shared folder), I get a much higher 464 Mbps....not sure why it's faster.

So clearly, the overall Tivo transfers are much slower than typical computer to computer transfers.

Granted....coming from a TivoHD, the transfers out of Tivo are 10x faster so I'm happy about that.


-Kevin


----------



## PHeadland (Mar 29, 2005)

HDRyder9 said:


> I've always been disappointed with the speed of gigabit Ethernet. In the real world, I typically get about twice the speed of 100bT.


Gigabit Ethernet is 10x faster than 100 Mb Ethernet. The equipment on each end is frequently the limiting factor. So when you saw "disappointing" performance, it simple meant that whatever machines you were using could not maintain a higher sustained speed to/from their network interfaces.

The real value of gigabit Ethernet is when many machines are all sharing a network - no single machine may need all of the available bandwidth, but when you add all the traffic together it's a different story.

TiVo Roamio cannot send data at 1 Gb / second; I'm surprised it gets above 100 Mb / second.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Repeated the Mac to PC copy but this time accessing the file FROM the PC.

The file copy dialog topped out at 117 MB/s (936 Mbps). 
But Resource Monitor topped out at 404 Mbps.

Guessing one isn't correct 

-Kevin



PHeadland said:


> Gigabit Ethernet is 10x faster than 100 Mb Ethernet. The equipment on each end is frequently the limiting factor. So when you saw "disappointing" performance, it simple meant that whatever machines you were using could not maintain a higher sustained speed to/from their network interfaces.
> 
> The real value of gigabit Ethernet is when many machines are all sharing a network - no single machine may need all of the available bandwidth, but when you add all the traffic together it's a different story.
> 
> TiVo Roamio cannot send data at 1 Gb / second; I'm surprised it gets above 100 Mb / second.


Then I'm curious, why would Tivo put in a gigabit ethernet card in the Plus and Pro if the machine can't utilize it? Clearly based on my original transfer, even though it's not getting anywhere near 1 Gb speeds......it is an increase when connected via gigabit.

-Kevin


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Marketing...


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

kbmb said:


> Then I'm curious, why would Tivo put in a gigabit ethernet card in the Plus and Pro if the machine can't utilize it? Clearly based on my original transfer, even though it's not getting anywhere near 1 Gb speeds......it is an increase when connected via gigabit.


 It is taking advantage of it seeing as you are getting > 100Mbps speeds, and also the Pro and Plus machines have integrated MoCA 1.1 which is also > 100 Mbps and it's likely a combo ethernet/MoCA SOC being used. Base Roamio doesn't have integrated MoCA so cheaper to go with 10/100 for just ethernet.


----------



## Alan_r (Sep 13, 2013)

kbmb said:


> ...
> Also noticed that in my DHCP client list, the Roamio Plus has 2 MAC addresses? I would imagine one would be the wireless and the other the wired.....but I have the Roamio setup to only be wired? Why would both be showing up? I've never connected my Roamio via wireless and neither of those addresses are in the wireless clients list. Unless they have different chips for 10/100 and 1000?
> 
> -Kevin


Also, what Ive found most curious is that the wired port and the wireless have the same MAC address.
When I connected wired and wirelessly I noticed in my DHCP logs that the MACs were the same.

I guess thats to prevent both interfaces from being active at the same time, unlike a PC?


----------



## scole250 (Nov 8, 2005)

kbmb said:


> Then I'm curious, why would Tivo put in a gigabit ethernet card in the Plus and Pro if the machine can't utilize it? Clearly based on my original transfer, even though it's not getting anywhere near 1 Gb speeds......it is an increase when connected via gigabit.
> 
> -Kevin


I doubt you could find an ongoing supply of 100Mbit adapters. There's plenty for sale, but I wouldn't setup new system production line and software using a part you may not get another batch of.

Besides 128Mbit is still better than 100Mbit and even with 100Mbit adapter, I doubt you would get close to the 100Mbit rate.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

scole250 said:


> I doubt you could find an ongoing supply of 100Mbit adapters. There's plenty for sale, but I wouldn't setup new system production line and software using a part you may not get another batch of.


But they are putting just 10/100 in the base Roamio.

-Kevin


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

kbmb said:


> Then I'm curious, why would Tivo put in a gigabit ethernet card in the Plus and Pro if the machine can't utilize it? Clearly based on my original transfer, even though it's not getting anywhere near 1 Gb speeds......it is an increase when connected via gigabit.
> 
> -Kevin


Tivo did not put in a gigabit ethernet card, because there is no ethernet card in the machine to begin with. The SoC used is an off the shelf part and the ethernet is a minor portion of it.
Inside the Tivo Roamio Plus/Pro there is a 1Gb ethernet switch. Connected to the switch is the Plus/Pro SoC (effectively the DVR), the MoCA adapter, the external ethernet port, and the Stream hardware. Now they have integrated much of this onto a single board, but the setup is _almost_ the same as taking the Roamio Basic and the other components and hooking them all up in separate boxes. Now the Roamio Basic's SoC appears to have only 100Mb ethernet integrated, so you would only be able to pull from it at 100Mb.

As a side note, this setup is the same as the Premiere Elite/4/XL4. The only difference in those is that S4 SoC only had 100Mb ethernet integrated. So even though the device would connect to the rest of your hardware at 1Gbps, you could only pull from the Tivo DVR at 100Mbps.


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

kbmb said:


> But they are putting just 10/100 in the base Roamio.
> 
> -Kevin


They didn't put on in the Roamio Base. The SoC that they got to choose from had 100Mbit.


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

moyekj said:


> It is taking advantage of it seeing as you are getting > 100Mbps speeds, and also the Pro and Plus machines have integrated MoCA 1.1 which is also > 100 Mbps and it's likely a combo ethernet/MoCA SOC being used. Base Roamio doesn't have integrated MoCA so cheaper to go with 10/100 for just ethernet.


I bet there isn't a version of the SoC that they used with 1Gb.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

socrplyr said:


> Tivo did not put in a gigabit ethernet card, because there is no ethernet card in the machine to begin with. The SoC used is an off the shelf part and the ethernet is a minor portion of it.
> Inside the Tivo Roamio Plus/Pro there is a 1Gb ethernet switch. Connected to the switch is the Plus/Pro SoC (effectively the DVR), the MoCA adapter, the external ethernet port, and the Stream hardware. Now they have integrated much of this onto a single board, but the setup is _almost_ the same as taking the Roamio Basic and the other components and hooking them all up in separate boxes. Now the Roamio Basic's SoC appears to have only 100Mb ethernet integrated, so you would only be able to pull from it at 100Mb.
> 
> As a side note, this setup is the same as the Premiere Elite/4/XL4. The only difference in those is that S4 SoC only had 100Mb ethernet integrated. So even though the device would connect to the rest of your hardware at 1Gbps, you could only pull from the Tivo DVR at 100Mbps.





socrplyr said:


> They didn't put on in the Roamio Base. The SoC that they got to choose from had 100Mbit.


Thanks for the explanation. I only used "card" in my previous statement because I'm networking challenged 

I had assumed everything is chip based now.

Regardless of setup.....I was hoping for a bit better performance from the Gigabit side on transfers.

-Kevin


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

kbmb said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I only used "card" in my previous statement because I'm networking challenged
> 
> I had assumed everything is chip based now.
> 
> ...


I agree. I wouldn't ever expect anywhere near 1Gbps, but I was hoping for 200+ Mbps. My current reading is 117 Mbps (via MoCA). Maybe I will hook directly into the box and see what I can get a little later.

When you were computing your throughput numbers how were they computed? Remember that for networking 1Gbps means 1000^3 bits per second, not 1024^3 bits per second. When talking Mega, that is a 5% error when making the comparison. (Your 128 Mbps would become 134 Mbps.)


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

socrplyr said:


> I agree. I wouldn't ever expect anywhere near 1Gbps, but I was hoping for 200+ Mbps. My current reading is 117 Mbps (via MoCA). Maybe I will hook directly into the box and see what I can get a little later.
> 
> When you were computing your throughput numbers how were they computed? Remember that for networking 1Gbps means 1000^3 bits per second, not 1024^3 bits per second. When talking Mega, that is a 5% error when making the comparison. (Your 128 Mbps would become 134 Mbps.)


Whatever raw number I got, if it wasn't in Mbps I did the conversion in Google or Wolfram.

kmttg was giving me Mb/sec
OS X activity monitor shows MB/sec
Windows Resource Monitor shows B/sec

So for the kmttg I wasn't doing any conversion, as the 85 and 128 Mbps numbers were directly from the app.

All the others I was letting Google convert them. Although, whether right or wrong, any 5% difference wouldn't matter here since the gigabit speeds from the Tivo are so much slower that what I was hoping for.

-Kevin


----------



## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Is the ethernet port on the Mini only 10/100? I'm pretty sure my switch is indicating a 10/100 connection to my Mini.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

This is all well and good, but what does it really matter? If you can use multiple minis with HD quality from a base unit without problems, who cares? Is there a potential problem someplace?


----------



## Alan_r (Sep 13, 2013)

The OP is using kmttg though, so the faster the transfer the better.

Sure, its nice that between TiVo devices its fast enough, but when getting the files to the desktop you want that as fast as possible, especially if theres a big queue to go through.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Ok, so use case 1 is when there are lots of files to transfer to a PC. I get that it will transfer faster, but that seems, in most cases, a small benefit overall unless someone is really looking to watch shows concurrently on a local network or PC. However, if having this increased speed allowed transferring more quickly to an iPad, I could see the benefit.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Alan_r said:


> The OP is using kmttg though, so the faster the transfer the better.
> 
> Sure, its nice that between TiVo devices its fast enough, but when getting the files to the desktop you want that as fast as possible, especially if theres a big queue to go through.


Exactly. Again, this is all a first-world problem right.  I'm not really complaining as much as I'm curious to understand why the Tivo gigabit transfers seem slower than I would expect. Tivo says it's a 10/100/1000 port on the device, so naturally I kind of expected performance closer to a local PC or PC transfer (minus any work Tivo needs to do).

Take for example a 7.45 GB show I just downloaded.

Using kmttg it took 8:27 at (117.6 Mbps) hooked up via a gigabit connection.

I then transferred the same file from my PC to my Mac using the same gigabit connection and it took 2:24 at (434 Mbps).

It's more my curiosity as to why the performance of gigabit on Tivo is not that much more than 100 Mbps connection.

-Kevin


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> Ok, so use case 1 is when there are lots of files to transfer to a PC. I get that it will transfer faster, but that seems, in most cases, a small benefit overall unless someone is really looking to watch shows concurrently on a local network or PC. However, if having this increased speed allowed transferring more quickly to an iPad, I could see the benefit.


True on the iPad streaming, although I think with an iPad you'd be maxed out at 300 Mbps on an N connection....and even with that you'd have to have a perfect setup and the network overhead will still knock 40% off the rate.

Transferring that same 7.45 file from my Mac Pro to my MacBook Air connected via N with a transmit rate of 300, I still max out at about 185 Mbps.

So yes, the gigabit on the Tivo would help.....and as you can see, it's still below what I would expect.

-Kevin


----------



## tre74 (Nov 12, 2010)

Idiot here, so patience is appreciated, lol. Using Tivo Desktop with new Roamio base. I used to transfer shows from Premiere to laptop over wireless. This was done very slowly. Basically, the shows transferred in realtime or slower. I'm all wired now on a gigabit network using a gigabit usb 2.0 adapter on the laptop. This doesn't give me gigabit bit speeds on laptop, but has bumped it up. Tried transfer from Premiere to laptop and then from Roamio to laptop to compare performance. Premiere transferred shows in half the running time of shows while Roamio transferred shows in a third of the run time. I'm curious if anybody is running an all wired gigabit network that includes a PC with a gigabit connection and a Roamio Pro or Plus. If so, what are the transfer times? Thanks folks.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

tre74 said:


> Idiot here, so patience is appreciated, lol. Using Tivo Desktop with new Roamio base. I used to transfer shows from Premiere to laptop over wireless. This was done very slowly. Basically, the shows transferred in realtime or slower. I'm all wired now on a gigabit network using a gigabit usb 2.0 adapter on the laptop. This doesn't give me gigabit bit speeds on laptop, but has bumped it up. Tried transfer from Premiere to laptop and then from Roamio to laptop to compare performance. Premiere transferred shows in half the running time of shows while Roamio transferred shows in a third of the run time. I'm curious if anybody is running an all wired gigabit network that includes a PC with a gigabit connection and a Roamio Pro or Plus. If so, what are the transfer times? Thanks folks.


That's what I just ran. I have the Roamio Plus hooked up directly to Airport Extreme on a gigabit connection. PC hooked up on same connection.

I transferred a 60 minute program with a file size of 7.45 GB in 8:27.

*EDIT: BTW, same program instead transferred via a 10/100 switch, completed in 11:56 at (83 Mbps).*

This was using kmttg. Not sure if Tivo Desktop would be slower or not.

-Kevin


----------



## Alan_r (Sep 13, 2013)

My curiosity is piqued now.
I think when I get home Ill do some GigE transfers as well.

Ill have to fire up a shelved Windows laptop since I only use a MacBook Air, but I am just too curious how fast it will go on GigE connection!


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> Has anyone done a head-to-head of PS vs. TS on a Plus or Pro? I only have a Base, and they both max out the port. The difference is dramatic on a Premiere.


On mine I still see a slight difference with PS being 1-2Mbps slower then TS. I'm connecting via MoCa so I'm constrained by the 10/100 port on the MoCa adapter.


----------



## tre74 (Nov 12, 2010)

kbmb said:


> That's what I just ran. I have the Roamio Plus hooked up directly to Airport Extreme on a gigabit connection. PC hooked up on same connection.
> 
> I transferred a 60 minute program with a file size of 7.45 GB in 8:27.
> 
> ...


Yikes, that is fast, lol.


----------



## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

I've only done a few tests but from what I've seen using Tivo Desktop, pulling from the Pro/Plus, they do about 140-200Mbps to the PC. I haven't seen anything under 140Mbps. I've not pulled from the PC yet to check transfer speeds nor done any Pro<->Plus transfers yet.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Devx said:


> I've only done a few tests but from what I've seen using Tivo Desktop, pulling from the Pro/Plus, they do about 140-200Mbps to the PC. I haven't seen anything under 140Mbps. I've not pulled from the PC yet to check transfer speeds nor done any Pro<->Plus transfers yet.


Can I ask:

1) What version of Tivo Desktop are you running?
2) How are you measuring speeds?

I haven't yet done a test on Tivo Desktop yet so I might try later.

-Kevin


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

With my Roamio Pro I get 190Mb/s transfer rates, at least the last time I looked, from my Roamio Pro to my TiVo Desktop PC or KMTTG. As reported in the transfer history in the DVR Diagnostics section.


----------



## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

kbmb said:


> Can I ask:
> 
> 1) What version of Tivo Desktop are you running?
> 2) How are you measuring speeds?
> ...


1) 2.8.3
2) Task Manager (Win8)


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> With my Roamio Pro I get 190Mb/s transfer rates, at least the last time I looked, from my Roamio Pro to my TiVo Desktop PC or KMTTG. As reported in the transfer history in the DVR Diagnostics section.


Where? Only thing I see in the DVR Diagnostics is Tuner and Cable card info.

-Kevin


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

kbmb said:


> Where? Only thing I see in the DVR Diagnostics is Tuner and Cable card info.
> 
> -Kevin


Sorry about that. It's "view Network Diagnostics" on the network page. And then the transfer rates are under "view Transfer History"


----------



## Alan_r (Sep 13, 2013)

I got around 100-110Mb on my tests
I transferred a 17.3GB file in 24 minutes.

I was using kmttg and a roamio plus

So, sad to see its only 100ishMb, but if it was a 100Mb LAN then I probably would have seen 40Mbps.

Still though, Id be much happier somewhere around 200Mb instead.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Devx said:


> 1) 2.8.3
> 2) Task Manager (Win8)


Thanks. I'm on Windows 7 on this machine and I see in Resource Monitor a couple of numbers.

As I transfer a show (Tivo Desktop 2.8.3) the overall Network I/O fluctuates between 160 Mbps - 196 Mbps.

The curl.exe process itself though is measured in B/sec. That number basically tops out around 24,000,000 B/sec (around 184 Mbps).

Doing the same transfer with kmttg, the overall Network I/O is 120 - 141 Mbps.

It usually averages and settles around 128 Mbps in kmttg.

So looks like Tivo Desktop might be a little quicker.

-Kevin


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Sorry about that. It's "view Network Diagnostics" on the network page. And then the transfer rates are under "view Transfer History"


Thanks! Found it....never knew that screen was there.

For my kmttg transfers it looks like that reports in the 125 Mbps range.
For the Tivo Desktop transfers, it was reporting 176 Mbps.

-Kevin


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

kbmb said:


> Thanks. I'm on Windows 7 on this machine and I see in Resource Monitor a couple of numbers.
> 
> As I transfer a show (Tivo Desktop 2.8.3) the overall Network I/O fluctuates between 160 Mbps - 196 Mbps.
> 
> ...


 Make sure it's apples vs apples. If you have "quick transfers" turned on in TiVo Desktop then you should turn on TS Transfers in kmttg.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

moyekj said:


> Make sure it's apples vs apples. If you have "quick transfers" turned on in TiVo Desktop then you should turn on TS Transfers in kmttg.


This option doesn't work for me. The download fails each time.

-Kevin


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

kbmb said:


> This option doesn't work for me. The download fails each time.
> 
> -Kevin


 What is TiVo Desktop set to? If you have "fast transfers" turned on there and it's working then kmttg TS Transfers should work too for the same title. All TTG programs download programs the same way via http, so given you are downloading same program in same container and to the same destination drive, there should not be a big difference in transfer speeds.


----------



## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

moyekj said:


> What is TiVo Desktop set to? If you have "fast transfers" turned on there and it's working then kmttg TS Transfers should work too for the same title. All TTG programs download programs the same way via http, so given you are downloading same program in same container and to the same destination drive, there should not be a big difference in transfer speeds.


In Tivo Desktop I have the File Transfer Speed (Use the fastest method) checked.

Yeah, weird......I just tried again in kmttg and it's working now. And the transfers are faster.

I guess the only downside is you lose the ability to decode the files if you wanted to.

-Kevin


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

kbmb said:


> I guess the only downside is you lose the ability to decode the files if you wanted to.


 If using tivodecode, yes, but not if you have VideoRedo.


----------



## shortcut3d (Sep 1, 2013)

Windows and OSX have shown the same transfer speeds for me. I also checked on a Synology NAS on both the interface, and disk writes. In addition, I was able to confirm transfer speeds on a Ubiquiti ER-POE router, which shows individual port Tx/Rx.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

kbmb said:


> Can I ask:
> 
> 1) What version of Tivo Desktop are you running?
> 2) How are you measuring speeds?
> ...


I just log into the web interface and download via a browser and use it's Kbps rating as my metric.


----------

