# Audio dropouts afrer 6.3?



## EMoMoney

Anybody else noticing any audio dropouts after the 6.3 upgrade?


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## cheer

EMoMoney said:


> Anybody else noticing any audio dropouts after the 6.3 upgrade?


I get this, only on channels outputting dolby digital. PCM output seems fine -- and, in fact, if I go in and change my "digital output" to output PCM instead of dolby, everything sounds fine.

Well.

Except not in digital surround, of course.

Anyone else getting this?


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## JasonTX

My Tivo seems to have received the update last night and now live TV and all recordings off the OTA antenna have no sound. I switched to PCM like cheer suggested and now all the audio is back.

I output basic analog audio along with HDMI for video (old AV receiver).

I was panicing until I saw your post cheer -- thanks.

Jason


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## utmba95

How long are the dropouts? I've noticed a few 10-20 seconds of dropout, but my receiver didn't indicate a dropout so I thought it was not in the Tivo.


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## ArcticGabe

Yes, my audio was totally hosed. Some channels had audio, others had absolutely no audio (including Tivo sound effects). Just got 6.3 two days ago, and all of this started. 

I just tried switching Dolby Digital to PCM, and it seems to work fine now. Thanks to "cheer" for the great tip!!


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## altan

But PCM isn't a good replacement for Dolby (I believe). PCM is always stero while Dolby can be 5.1 (and other variants). I wouldn't be happy with this work around!

Have I forgotten about PCM? Let me know if I've misrepresented the situaton...

... Altan


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## cheer

altan said:


> But PCM isn't a good replacement for Dolby (I believe). PCM is always stero while Dolby can be 5.1 (and other variants). I wouldn't be happy with this work around!
> 
> Have I forgotten about PCM? Let me know if I've misrepresented the situaton...
> 
> ... Altan


You're exactly correct, and it's a bad, bad workaround. On Monday I'll probably call D* unless I figure this out myself first. I'm not going to live with this, that's for sure.


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## Arcady

ArcticGabe said:


> Some channels had audio, others had absolutely no audio (including Tivo sound effects).


There have never been TiVo sounds while watching a 5.1 program. Not on an SD box, and not on an HD box. There's no easy way for them to overlay audio on a DD stream.


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## pdawg17

This is a big enough deal to me that I may go unplug my box until further notice...


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## cheer

pdawg17 said:


> This is a big enough deal to me that I may go unplug my box until further notice...


It's a big enough deal to me that I may wipe and go back to 3.1.5f. As much as that pains me.


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## pdawg17

Cheer-

You are using an HT receiver, correct? I thought as long as the device had a decoder it would work ok...


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## cheer

pdawg17 said:


> Cheer-
> 
> You are using an HT receiver, correct? I thought as long as the device had a decoder it would work ok...


Not sure what you're getting at. Yes, it has a decoder (HT receiver)...used to work just fine. But since the upgrade, if the audio feed is really dolby digital (from OTA, an HD channel, or a select few SD channels) I get bad dropouts. Switch to PCM output and the dropouts go away (but so does surround sound).


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## chris_h

I am seeing it too, but I thought it was an issue with the local fox affiliate. I see 10 to 15 seconds of clean video (with no audio) and at the end there is a little video burp (garbled picture) and then both audio and video are fine. I already deleted the recordings, and did not try to rewind to see if the problem was repeatable. I will try to be a little more thurough next time it hits, since it may not be a local issue.


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## Todd

How significant is this problem? Do I need to pull the plug and prevent my box from getting the update until D* fixes this issue? I have no desire to loose DD5.1...


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## altan

I agree this is a big problem. However, it's not clear it's very widespread. I've only heard a couple of people say they have the problem (and I suspect most people with the HR10-250 use OTA and have a Dolby Digital receiver).

Are people with this problem using HDMI or Toslink for digital audio?

I don't have the upgrade yet, but I might unplug the phone until more info is available (as a few others have suggested)...

... Altan

Update 10/11: I've been having this problem for over a week now. Specifically, the audio drops out for about 8-10 seconds. After this time, the video quickly breaks up and then both the audio and video come back. It is not related to HDMI or Toslink. I experience the problem with the stereo output.


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## Camelot_One

I haven't gotten the upgrade yet, but I have always had this issue. I haven't tried the PCM workaround though. It only seems to show up when something is broadcast in Dolby 5.1, and it is not limited to OTA stations. (I don't get any) My HD CBS and NBC stations (the 80s) are the worst for it, haven't noticed it on the HD Discovery (any of the 70s channels)


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## cheer

altan said:


> I agree this is a big problem. However, it's not clear it's very widespread. I've only heard a couple of people say they have the problem (and I suspect most people with the HR10-250 use OTA and have a Dolby Digital receiver).
> 
> Are people with this problem using HDMI or Toslink for digital audio?
> 
> I don't have the upgrade yet, but I might unplug the phone until more info is available (as a few others have suggested)...
> 
> ... Altan


I am using Toslink. What I haven't seen (not that this means anything) is someone posting that they are having no issue whatsoever with DD output. Then again, those without an issue might not be reading this thread. 

It's absolutely not limited to OTA. So long as the audio is in DD format, regardless of the channel source, I have that problem. It's consistent -- I simply cannot watch anything this way. It takes, at most, 20 seconds for the problem to manifest (that's the longest -- usually it's just a second or two before it starts).

I really, really don't want to roll back to 3.1.5f...


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## Fghocker

I am using HDMI connection and when I turned on the tv this morning, all HD channels and OTA, the audio was gone and just made this horrible buzzing noise. I assume I received the update sometime last night. I just changed the settings (after reading it on this forum) from Dolby Digital to PCM and now the audio is fine.


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## cheer

Fghocker said:


> I am using HDMI connection and when I turned on the tv this morning, all HD channels and OTA, the audio was gone and just made this horrible buzzing noise. I assume I received the update sometime last night. I just changed the settings (after reading it on this forum) from Dolby Digital to PCM and now the audio is fine.


Just so everyone is aware, this is a DIFFERENT problem from the one the original poster and I are having.

As mentioned in the release notes, the upgrade can change the default settings of your audio stuff. If you are listening through a TV, and if you are using HDMI, you may get this problem because most TVs do NOT have dolby digital recorders.

On the other hand, if you're connected to a receiver (that is dolby digital compatible), everything SHOULD work fine. But I get constant dropouts on every channel that has a DD audio track.


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## EMoMoney

cheer said:


> Just so everyone is aware, this is a DIFFERENT problem from the one the original poster and I are having.
> 
> As mentioned in the release notes, the upgrade can change the default settings of your audio stuff. If you are listening through a TV, and if you are using HDMI, you may get this problem because most TVs do NOT have dolby digital recorders.
> 
> On the other hand, if you're connected to a receiver (that is dolby digital compatible), everything SHOULD work fine. But I get constant dropouts on every channel that has a DD audio track.


Being the OP, I should give some more specifics. Like Cheer, I have a DD receiver, and have noticed audio dropouts on live TV both on OTA and ESPN HD. I am using the toslink cable. I switched to the PDM digital output and still am experiencing the audio dropputs. I haven't recorded anything sice I received the update. Like some of the other posters have mentioned, the audio drops out for 20-30 seconds at a time.


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## axelbrunger

altan said:


> I agree this is a big problem. However, it's not clear it's very widespread. I've only heard a couple of people say they have the problem (and I suspect most people with the HR10-250 use OTA and have a Dolby Digital receiver).
> 
> Are people with this problem using HDMI or Toslink for digital audio?
> 
> I don't have the upgrade yet, but I might unplug the phone until more info is available (as a few others have suggested)...
> 
> ... Altan


 Yes, I too have this problem. For my it only occurs for OTA channel recordings
before I received the upgrade. I am using toslink as well. Swithing to PDM Digital
does not help either. Any other suggestions?

Axel Brunger


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## eddiwill

I don't have the upgrade yet, but this problem has plagued our house every since we got the HR10-250. We had it replaced with another (protection plan) and it does it as well. Both OTA and stuff from the Sat. have the problem when broadcast in DD. Sometimes it can happen more than 15 or 20 times during a 1 hour broadcast. It is incredibly annoying, and a few times has hit during some critical dialogue which just drives me nuts!

I was really hoping the upgrade would "fix" this problem. I know it's not worth much, but the few CSRs I have spoken to about this say that no nothing about this being "an issue."


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## rezdog

chris_h said:


> I am seeing it too, but I thought it was an issue with the local fox affiliate. I see 10 to 15 seconds of clean video (with no audio) and at the end there is a little video burp (garbled picture) and then both audio and video are fine. I already deleted the recordings, and did not try to rewind to see if the problem was repeatable. I will try to be a little more thurough next time it hits, since it may not be a local issue.


This is exactly what I'm seeing too. And I only remember seeing it on my fox affiliate. I think I saw it on some ST fox games too.


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## mwl001

Not sure if I'm seeing the same thing, but I believe I saw it on both FOX and CBS. I presumed it had to to with the feed -- when I had known reception problems (lousy antenna), I would drop audio completely, and video would freeze or pixellate 100% of the time. Yesterday, video continues perfectly, but audio drops out.


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## PJO1966

I had brief audio dropouts before the update, but I could always hit the instant replay button and it would play fine. I was watching Family Guy last night, which was recorded OTA, there were the long audio dropouts others were mentioning. I would hit the replay button and the audio would drop off at the exact same point every time. It was really annoying. I'm not happy with the work-around that loses surround. That's not an acceptable solution.


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## chris_h

chris_h said:


> I am seeing it too, but I thought it was an issue with the local fox affiliate. I see 10 to 15 seconds of clean video (with no audio) and at the end there is a little video burp (garbled picture) and then both audio and video are fine. I already deleted the recordings, and did not try to rewind to see if the problem was repeatable. I will try to be a little more thurough next time it hits, since it may not be a local issue.


Well I saw it again on Fox40, local fox 40.1 via OTA. This time it was during NFL football, Rams @ 49ers. It seems consistant at around 10 seconds, and always has the video burp at the end. The problem is repeatable on rewind. The analog audio also goes out during the time that the digital audio is missing. I get the impression from PJ019066's post that other folks have good analog audio during the problem time with the digital audio. Is that correct?


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## PJO1966

I was referring to the posts where people said that switching to digital PDM solved the problem but got rid of surround. This was not a consistant fix as others stated switching to PDM did not fix the problem.


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## chris_h

PJO1966 said:


> I was referring to the posts where people said that switching to digital PDM solved the problem but got rid of surround. This was not a consistant fix as others stated switching to PDM did not fix the problem.


Okay. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought that PCM was also a digital audio encoding method, and that it would also give 5.1 channel surround sound. I have not played with the PCM setting yet.


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## eengert

If there's anyone out there who has received the 6.3 update and uses the optical output to a DD receiver and is not experiencing any of these audio problems after watching a couple of programs, please post that here. For those of us who haven't received the update yet, it would be very helpful to know if this is a widespread problem. Speed and folders are great, but I think most of us would choose DD 5.1 reliability over those enhancements, and this information would help us to make the decision whether or not to allow our machines to be updated.

Also, has anyone reported it to D* and taken the time to walk through it with a support technician and/or had D* identify it as an official bug?


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## LlamaLarry

I have 6.3 on a hacked HR10-250, connected via optical to a Sony DA-50ES. I have no problem ( no drops, skips, hiccups, whatever) playing back DD content live over sat, live OTA, or previously recorded shows from either source.

I have never had any of the DD complaints the run around the board on any of my SD DirecTiVos or on my HD one in 3.1.5x and now 6.3.


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## tase2

eengert said:


> If there's anyone out there who has received the 6.3 update and uses the optical output to a DD receiver and is not experiencing any of these audio problems after watching a couple of programs, please post that here.
> 
> Also, has anyone reported it to D* and taken the time to walk through it with a support technician and/or had D* identify it as an official bug?


Yes please post here. I am actually waiting to see if they can remedy this problem before doing the update.


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## pdawg17

LlamaLarry said:


> I have 6.3 on a hacked HR10-250, connected via optical to a Sony DA-50ES. I have no problem ( no drops, skips, hiccups, whatever) playing back DD content live over sat, live OTA, or previously recorded shows from either source.
> 
> I have never had any of the DD complaints the run around the board on any of my SD DirecTiVos or on my HD one in 3.1.5x and now 6.3.


Just curious, Larry...did you manually install the slices or activate it with the phone call?


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## LlamaLarry

Manually kicked off the install. 

I have another box I have not opened that I am waiting to get 6.3 the normal way. Looks like I may get to wait for 6.3.x if they do indeed plan to roll out a fix. I wonder if DTV is even interested in the failcases here - DD working in 3.1.5x -> DD not working in 6.3 is definitely a big problem. Would be cool if they had a bug report page as I am not certain that calling in to support will do anything.


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## Vin

I'm experiencing the audio drop outs too since the upgrade.....very annoying.

(Optical out to DD receiver).


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## hongcho

Maybe we should start listing the receivers...

Hong.


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## ethos

EMoMoney said:


> Anybody else noticing any audio dropouts after the 6.3 upgrade?


I have had audio dropouts on the DD HD and OTA digital channels since the first day i got my HD Tivo.

I even sent the first one back to get another one, hoping it was just a bad unit. Directv sent me a refurb that did the same thing but also had video freezing. I cancelled my order and reordered another one and it still does the dropouts or hickups. It is worse on some channels than others but they all do it.

I looked everywhere (i thought) for anyone else with the same problem and never found anyone. So i replaced cables, tried different receivers, even changed Off air antennna's with no luck.

So now that i have just learned to live with it, the new software version seems to be giving this problem to everyone.

So does this mean when i get the update mine will be fixed? 

(fiber Optic out to receiver)


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## ethos

eddiwill said:


> I don't have the upgrade yet, but this problem has plagued our house every since we got the HR10-250. We had it replaced with another (protection plan) and it does it as well. Both OTA and stuff from the Sat. have the problem when broadcast in DD. Sometimes it can happen more than 15 or 20 times during a 1 hour broadcast. It is incredibly annoying, and a few times has hit during some critical dialogue which just drives me nuts!
> 
> I was really hoping the upgrade would "fix" this problem. I know it's not worth much, but the few CSRs I have spoken to about this say that no nothing about this being "an issue."


try this, jump back 7 secs and the hiccup wont happen in the same place and you can hear the dialog. It will still hiccup during the rest of the show.


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## EMoMoney

Well, I watched my first recoreded programs since the upgrade and I did experience a 10-20 second audio drop during The new adventures of old Christine, very annoying. I had no problems with How I met your mother or The class, haven't watched Prison Break or Studio 60 yet. This is bad if you can't record in DD. I tried rewinding, and the dropout is still there. The audio simply dropped out for 10-20 seconds during the recording.


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## BryanCPA

I'm getting the dropouts. The dropouts are recorded as you can rewind and they repeat in the same place. I would think this means that the model of DD receiver you use has no impact since the dropouts are on the recorded stream. I have not tried the PCM workaround yet.


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## eengert

BryanCPA said:


> I'm getting the dropouts. The dropouts are recorded as you can rewind and they repeat in the same place. I would think this means that the model of DD receiver you use has no impact since the dropouts are on the recorded stream. I have not tried the PCM workaround yet.


Could you perform a little test for us? If you still have a recording where you experienced the dropouts, switch to PCM and then go back to that point in the program and see if the dropout is still there. In other words, is it the audio setting at the time of playback that is important, or is it the audio setting at the time of recording? That would be interesting to know and may help D*/TIVO to troubleshoot and fix this bug. Thanks.


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## BryanCPA

eengert said:


> Could you perform a little test for us? If you still have a recording where you experienced the dropouts, switch to PCM and then go back to that point in the program and see if the dropout is still there. In other words, is it the audio setting at the time of playback that is important, or is it the audio setting at the time of recording? That would be interesting to know and may help D*/TIVO to troubleshoot and fix this bug. Thanks.


Good question. I will try when I get home tonight.


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## maldini

Can someone post a quick explanation of how to force the HR10-250 to output PCM? Do I need to change cables or can it use the same optical cable I am using now for DD5.1?

Thanks,

Maldini


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## LlamaLarry

BryanCPA said:


> I'm getting the dropouts. The dropouts are recorded as you can rewind and they repeat in the same place. I would think this means that the model of DD receiver you use has no impact since the dropouts are on the recorded stream. I have not tried the PCM workaround yet.


Why would it only be in the stream that you capture though?

I don't have the problem, so unless this is specific to your OTA and not the HD Pack channels, wouldn't it have to be specific to your receiver? We could all try to record the same exact show on a national HD channel and compare notes as to when the breakups occur.

I find it difficult to believe that I am the only one *not* having the problem. Maybe the OP can start a list of receiver brand/models that manifest the error?


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## cheer

maldini said:


> Can someone post a quick explanation of how to force the HR10-250 to output PCM? Do I need to change cables or can it use the same optical cable I am using now for DD5.1?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Maldini


It's a menu setting -- under settings, audio, somewhere like that. Change Digital Output to PCM instead of Dolby Digital.

I think part of the problem is that we have multiple issues, here. The fact that PCM doesn't fix it for everyone suggests this. Also, I see some write that the problem manifests briefly but if you rewind you can hear what you missed, whereas others say the dropouts are in the exact same place if you rewind and/or watch a recorded show.

So...everyone experiencing the problem, please do so thusly:

*Receiver Make/Model:* Sony STR-K750P
*HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on):* 6.3
*If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places?* No
*Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?* Yes
*How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously):* Continuously


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## EMoMoney

eengert said:


> Could you perform a little test for us? If you still have a recording where you experienced the dropouts, switch to PCM and then go back to that point in the program and see if the dropout is still there. In other words, is it the audio setting at the time of playback that is important, or is it the audio setting at the time of recording? That would be interesting to know and may help D*/TIVO to troubleshoot and fix this bug. Thanks.


Just tried it and the audio dropout is still there in the same timeline. The audio dropput seems to lie in the recording, not the output or the receiver in this case.


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## Chuck_IV

I was gonna post about this, the other day. I, though am not having complete audio dropouts tho. What I am getting is if I am on one tuner and swap over to the other tuner(using the down arrow), which is DD, I sometimes get stuttering audio. It reminds me of someone talking thru a voice activated speaker phone or bad cell phone, where you miss random syllables. I can rectify it by changing to a different channel, then going right back.

So far it has only occured when I swapped to my NBC HD(WNBC), watching the Sunday night NFL game. I had no issues swapping between Discovery and YES HD last night, nor swapping between YES HD and ESPN HD(NFL game).

***EDIT***
Adding receiver info...

Onkyo SR601 receiver connected to my HR10-250.


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## eddiwill

ethos said:


> try this, jump back 7 secs and the hiccup wont happen in the same place and you can hear the dialog. It will still hiccup during the rest of the show.


It doesn't work that way on mine. The drop is in the same place every time, recorded/live/skipped back, doesn't matter.

Just like the other poster, I have had this issue from Day 1, with both the new unit and the refurb replacement.


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## chris_h

Here is a blank form leveraged from cheers post, quote it and add your input if you so desire. I took the liberty of adding an item or two.

*Receiver Make/Model:* 
*HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on):* 
*If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places?* 
*Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?* 
*How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously):* 
* Does your analog audio also go out during this time?*
* Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back?*


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## chris_h

*Receiver Make/Model:* Sony 935
*HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on):* 6.3
*If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places?* Yes.
*Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?* No.
*How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously):* 3-5
* Does your analog audio also go out during this time?*Yes.
* Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back?*Yes.

I have now seen this on multiple channels both OTA and sat, where before I thought it was a local issue with a single OTA channel.


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## ethos

BryanCPA said:


> I'm getting the dropouts. The dropouts are recorded as you can rewind and they repeat in the same place. I would think this means that the model of DD receiver you use has no impact since the dropouts are on the recorded stream. I have not tried the PCM workaround yet.


You have a different problem than me. I get hiccups in the sound you seem to have long dropouts. Mine doesnt record the dropouts.


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## jseelna

I received the 6.3 update on my 2 HDTivo's this past weekend -- so far I have not experienced any Audio Dropout issues with my DD5.1 via TosLink -- Recorded Prison Break and House via OTA the last two nights and playback has been fine.


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## pdawg17

jseelna said:


> I received the 6.3 update on my 2 HDTivo's this past weekend -- so far I have not experienced any Audio Dropout issues with my DD5.1 via TosLink -- Recorded Prison Break and House via OTA the last two nights and playback has been fine.


What receiver?


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## jseelna

Phillips FR 975


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## ptrubey

I recorded Jericho on my local HD OTA CBS station. Got about 8 10 second long dropouts throughout the show. They were recorded into the program (I could rewind, etc, audio drops occured at the same spot). At the end of the audio drop out, video blip and then sound. This never happened before I received the 6.3 update two days ago.

Interestingly there are two DD settings. My unit had been set to NOT record DD audio and to NOT downconvert from DD to PCM. So I just changed the later setting to downconvert to PCM, and I'll see if that makes a difference.


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## maldini

Receiver Make/Model: *Harmen Kardon*
HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on): *6.2*
If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places? *Yes*
Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts? *No*
How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously): *3-5 times *
Does your analog audio also go out during this time? *not sure*
Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back? *No*

I noticed this pretty heavily the other night while watching the World Series of Poker on ESPNHD, although it should be noted the show as not in HD.

I experience this from time to time on the HD Direct TV channels but have never once experienced it on the OTA channels. Since I don't even have 6.3, this could be a different issue.

Maldini


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## Adam1115

fyi, no problems with DD here. I've ONLY watched DD content OTA, haven't had anything from satellite to test with yet, I'll check that out tomorrow..


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## A.C.

I don't know if what I'm getting is considered audio drop outs, but what is happening is I am now hearing a popping noise while using HDMI audio set to PCM (output to the TV) and viewing programs that are recorded from OTA HD and that are in DD. It's not so bad that makes the audio not audible, but it's bothersome. I'll give D* a couple of weeks to get a new release out. If the don't, it's back to the trusty ole code. It might be slow, but I haven't had a single problem with it in over a year.


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## Seminole

I think my audio drop outs have gone away. I dropped the HDMI cable went back to component and also reset the DD input and output on my HD Tivo so not sure if that fixed the problem or something else happened. By the way I notice no difference in PQ I think HDMI is overrated


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## chris_h

maldini said:


> HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on): *6.2*
> 
> Maldini


Typo or hacked version I was not aware of?


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## chris_h

ptrubey said:


> I recorded Jericho on my local HD OTA CBS station. Got about 8 10 second long dropouts throughout the show. They were recorded into the program (I could rewind, etc, audio drops occured at the same spot). At the end of the audio drop out, video blip and then sound. This never happened before I received the 6.3 update two days ago.
> 
> Interestingly there are two DD settings. My unit had been set to NOT record DD audio and to NOT downconvert from DD to PCM. So I just changed the later setting to downconvert to PCM, and I'll see if that makes a difference.


You have the exact same symptoms as me. Welcome to the club. I am working on a secret handshake and decoder ring.

That is interesting that the unit was not set to record in DD. I had not thought to try that, now I know I don't need to bother.


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## tall1

EMoMoney said:


> Well, I watched my first recoreded programs since the upgrade and I did experience a 10-20 second audio drop during The new adventures of old Christine, very annoying. I had no problems with How I met your mother or The class, haven't watched Prison Break or Studio 60 yet. This is bad if you can't record in DD. I tried rewinding, and the dropout is still there. The audio simply dropped out for 10-20 seconds during the recording.


I had the same dropout happen to me during old christine. I have not had any since. TOS to Denon 3803.


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## Orient Express

I wonder if this is a result of the fixing of the HD audio sync problem from 3.2?

Fix one thing break another. 

I have my HR10 connected to my Sony ES receiver via a TosLink cable, and get the audio dropouts on some programs but not others. 

For me it does seem to be confined to the OTA channels, specifically Fox. House was very annoying, but yet Gray's Anatomy was completely fine.

go figure.

Anyone with the 6.3 update still having the audio sync problems?


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## Stach

So far, I have only had audio dropouts when viewing my local HD Fox station (Minneapolis) as well. The picture moves nicely along and I lose DD audio for 5-10 seconds. I am connected via toslink to a Lexicon DC-1. I never experienced this exact issue before 6.3.

-Stach


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## LlamaLarry

Orient Express, which Sony ES receiver? My trusty old DA50-ES seems to be working perfectly.


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## cheer

As I've said before, I think there are different issues manifesting.

What I get when tuned to ANY station with a DD audio feed -- SD, HD, OTA, Sat, doesn't matter -- is a constant series of brief (1-2 sec) dropouts. It is utterly impossible to listen to any dialog. Turning my output to PCM completely eliminates the problem.

There are messages in the Tivo's kernel log file that indicate errors related to this.

The errors are not "permanent" in the stream -- in other words, if I rewind the dropouts are not in the same place.

I also experienced some other dropouts where I experienced both video and audio stuttering. This got worse and worse, and the box stopped responding to the remote (or bash). Finally it rebooted.


----------



## Orient Express

LlamaLarry said:


> Orient Express, which Sony ES receiver? My trusty old DA50-ES seems to be working perfectly.


It is an old DA555es, but I don't think that the receiver has anything to do with the issue.


----------



## boylan

Is this still a problem with 6.3a? If not, then I'll just upgrade and be done with it.

Receiver Make/Model: HR10-250
HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on): 6.3
If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places? Yes
Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?
How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously): less than once a show
Does your analog audio also go out during this time?
Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back? normally no, but once or twice it did.

Receiver: Denon 3802


----------



## Cheezmo

Ditto what Cheer said up above. No different with 6.3a.


----------



## Orient Express

The 6.3 audio dropouts on my HR10 seem to be limited to Fox programs that are recorded. No problem on live shows, or recorded shows from any other channel. I need to go back and count how many dropouts there are on the Fox programs I have recorded, and if they occur at the same time within each program to see if there is a trend there.

Is there consensus that this problem only seems to be showing up on Fox programming?


----------



## PJO1966

The audio dropouts are out of control. We had to turn on the subtitles while watching Bones. The audio dropped out about 4 or 5 times and each time lasted more than 30 seconds.


----------



## PJO1966

Orient Express said:


> Is there consensus that this problem only seems to be showing up on Fox programming?


So far for me the shows affected by the 30 second dropouts were Family Guy & Bones, both on Fox. I'm still getting the 1 second dropouts on all shows, but that's remedied by hitting the replay button.


----------



## chris_h

Orient Express said:


> Is there consensus that this problem only seems to be showing up on Fox programming?


No, I am pretty sure that I had a few dropouts 8 days ago on MNF via ESPN-HD. They do occur more frequently for me on fox via OTA, but they are not confined to fox programming, or even OTA programming.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

The audio dropouts a week ago for MNF on ESPN-HD were felt by a lot of people, including me. I still have 3.1.5f - it was pretty much determined to be a signal problem on ESPN from what I have read.


----------



## JohnDG

boylan said:


> Is this still a problem with 6.3a? If not, then I'll just upgrade and be done with it.
> 
> Receiver Make/Model: HR10-250
> HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on): 6.3
> If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places? Yes
> Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?
> How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously): less than once a show
> Does your analog audio also go out during this time?
> Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back? normally no, but once or twice it did.
> 
> Receiver: Denon 3802


I noted the Denon 3802, a receiver model that is susceptible to the loud "POP" sounds when the program material switches from DD to non-DD (e.g., when going from commercial to program for network broadcasts). I also note that you are only getting one dropout per show, which may not be related to this newer 15-20 second dropout problem.

Are you still getting the loud "POP" issues?

If not, then this change to the DD stream output may be related to legacy receivers not handling bad DD packets.

jdg


----------



## chris_h

scooby_doo_53 said:


> The audio dropouts a week ago for MNF on ESPN-HD were felt by a lot of people, including me. I still have 3.1.5f - it was pretty much determined to be a signal problem on ESPN from what I have read.


Yeah, and I had the stutter effect that everyone else had too. But I have a very deterministic audio dropout failure mode (it is very consistently 8 to 9 seconds, with a video glitch at the end). It could be that the dropouts were triggered by a bad data stream, which was unique to that evening for ESPN-HD, due to their network issues.


----------



## boylan

JohnDG said:


> I noted the Denon 3802, a receiver model that is susceptible to the loud "POP" sounds when the program material switches from DD to non-DD (e.g., when going from commercial to program for network broadcasts). I also note that you are only getting one dropout per show, which may not be related to this newer 15-20 second dropout problem.
> 
> Are you still getting the loud "POP" issues?
> 
> If not, then this change to the DD stream output may be related to legacy receivers not handling bad DD packets.
> 
> jdg


Good question - I always used to get the annoying POP (It scares the life out of my girlfriend), but I haven't noticed it since 6.3 (just the humming/stuttering for a second on channel changes) - but I'll check tonight.

As for the audio dropouts, they are only happening once or twice a show at most, but its different than previous reception problems (with 3.1.5). Anytime before I had a reception problem I would lose audio and video, but now I just lose audio for about 10-15 seconds, sometimes followed by a quick glitch - then it returns.


----------



## muzzymate

Orient Express said:


> Is there consensus that this problem only seems to be showing up on Fox programming?


Sure seems to be the case with me... All other DD channels haven't experienced any audio dropouts except for Fox.


----------



## cheer

Orient Express said:


> Is there consensus that this problem only seems to be showing up on Fox programming?


Absolutely not. It happens to me on every channel that has dolby digital audio, 24x7.


----------



## nc88keyz

I will confirm that it is mostly affecting fox OTA on my units. 

I have 2 hr10250s and they pretty much constantly record during the season between 8pm and 12pm

The drops are between 10-30 secs. 

They do repeat during playback as well.

I have a Sony STRDA3000ES

Both Units Zippered 3.1.5f, Then manually upgraded to 6.3a. I didnt get time to install 6.3 before it dissapeared from MFS

Feel free to ask any more questions. 

MY OTA Fox is provided by WSFX26 , Wilmington, NC

Another side effect of 6.3a is temp unable to tune OTA stations with a blue error banner at the bottom. Its about 1-2 secs. Nothing big, and you never see it on the recording. But it definately was not occuring with the last release. 

I think there will be some more 6.3x versions appearing soon in the stream.

Look out for 6.3b (B for Beta )


----------



## josejrp

I think I just had my first audio drop in more than a week of running 6.3 (and now 6.3a). It happened while watching tonight's recorded House, when he is is talking to the stalker teenage girl by his motorcycle. Lasted about ten seconds, and rewinding did not help. 

Funny thing is that I had not had any other dropouts in any other shows, and with the TV season starting, I've been watching a lot of TV. CSI, Jericho, and other 5.1 shows have been fine. Could be that House itself had problems tonight... I already deleted it, so I can't go back and try the PCM fix. 

The other funny thing is that although I am recording and outputting DD, I am using the analog outputs at the moment since my Sony ES receiver crapped out a month ago (three months out of warranty and unfixable!). If this was the DD bug, it even happens on the analog outputs.


----------



## nc88keyz

Perhaps it was dropping out because she is so freekin hot in the jailbait kinda way. Perhaps she was melting the optical output. But hey maybe house will walk on the wild side :") Well find out after the world series i think . It looks like he gets arrested for something in he preview. Was that her he was necking with?


----------



## Adam1115

I got THREE dropouts during house. VERY long. I almost switched to PCM. This is BAD.


----------



## cheer

josejrp said:


> The other funny thing is that although I am recording and outputting DD, I am using the analog outputs at the moment since my Sony ES receiver crapped out a month ago (three months out of warranty and unfixable!). If this was the DD bug, it even happens on the analog outputs.


That's not a DD problem -- you can't output DD via the analog outputs.


----------



## ayrton911

I hope I don't get 6.3a. I want it, but I do not want audio drop outs


----------



## mr.unnatural

*Receiver Make/Model:* B&K Reference 30 preamp/processor
*HR10-250 S/W version(s) (list all that you've experienced the problem on):* 6.3, 6.3a
*If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places?* yes
*Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?* Don't know
*How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously):* varies from program to program; worst case has been about 4 or 5 occurrences in 1 hour; generally only happens once or twice during a show, if at all
*Does your analog audio also go out during this time?* Don't know. Don't care. I haven't used analog audio outputs in years.
*Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back?* Yes

I have three HDTivos that have been manually upgraded to 6.3 and then again to 6.3a. Most shows I have recorded only experience one or two dropouts in an hour and some have none at all. I have only seen the video stutter on one recording and it happened during a commercial break. I have not monitored which channels have experienced the dropouts but it might not be a bad thing to start doing so. It could be a trend with some networks moreso than others.


----------



## Cheezmo

Fox is a good test, because the local affiliates pass almost exactly the same bitstream (except for the addition of local logos via a "splicer") to everyone nationwide.

I have seen the same problems people are describing on Fox and a couple of other OTA HD shows.

I had an even worse problem hit two 10-250's simultaneously (9:30PM central time Saturday), but I can't tell for sure what channel they were tuned to. Basically they started stuttering, got unresponsive and eventually rebooted. One of them was tuned 88 FOXE, but it may have been the other tuner that caused the problem.


----------



## cheer

So here's my latest theory.

The dropouts that people experience infrequently (and in particular those that are repeatable via rewind) are likely a problem with the stream itself. And while I do agree with Cheezmo to a certain extent, OTA broadcasts are always going to vary due to reception issues, etc.

Since I have been watching OTA HD I have had the occasional dropout, etc. Some stations worse than others.

Now the stuttering/unresponsive/reboot problem I have seen since moving to 6.3/6.3a, but only once. There was a crapload of bad things in the logs but as it hasn't repeated I haven't been able to get anywhere with it.

The audio dropout experience that I am having (and maybe I am the only one) is a CONSTANT series of micro-dropouts -- a second or two ad the most. It is utterly impossible to watch anything this way -- there's no way anyone would understand the dialog, etc. It does not repeat exactly when a rewind is done. Switching to PCM output eliminates the issue.

As I am also seeing (he said, dancing around the topic) issues in the AC3 streams, and corresponding log entries, I am beginning to wonder if maybe there are certain hardware revisions of the HR10-250 that have this problem.


----------



## josejrp

cheer said:


> That's not a DD problem -- you can't output DD via the analog outputs.


True, but it matched the symptoms other have mentioned... loss of audio for 10 seconds, returning after a video/audio blip. I have also read some reports that say the audio dropouts happens on all outputs, not just the optical.


----------



## cheer

josejrp said:


> True, but it matched the symptoms other have mentioned... loss of audio for 10 seconds, returning after a video/audio blip. I have also read some reports that say the audio dropouts happens on all outputs, not just the optical.


That's a different problem; that's audio missing in the program stream. Nothing to be done about that one.


----------



## willardcpa

Chris, just a "shot in the dark". But this is something that I have had a problem with on my setup. Does your receiver have a setting where it will automatically detect the digital input and lock on it? Mine does, but the problem that I have is that frequently the optical input signal apparently goes "totally silent" (not as in a drop out, but as in there is no sound on the program) and when it does the receiver loses its "lock" and when it comes back the reciever has to "lock" on it again and this causes dropouts for me. This would happen everytime there was a change in the scenes, a switch to or from commercial, or just flat silence on the part of the actors. I had to change the receiver setting to be "fixed' onto the optical input - after that no problems. 
So in my case it's not really audio dropouts per se, it was just the receiver going through the re "lock" procedure that caused a "dropout". I could see it everytime on the display on the receiver it would indicate that the receiver was changing modes on me all the time.


----------



## swartzentruber

josejrp said:


> I think I just had my first audio drop in more than a week of running 6.3 (and now 6.3a). It happened while watching tonight's recorded House, when he is is talking to the stalker teenage girl by his motorcycle.


 Watch it -- no spoilers please  We are a Tivo forum.


----------



## mr.unnatural

What spoiler? This was shown in the preview ads.


----------



## PJO1966

I had my first non-Fox 30 second droput during runaway on CW.

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but it would be an interesting move to sabotage the software upgrades on the HD-Tivo to get everyone to move to the new HD DVR. I know I'm seriously considering switching over. Of course I honestly don't believe this was deliberate, but it certainly is annoying.


----------



## cheer

willardcpa said:


> Chris, just a "shot in the dark". But this is something that I have had a problem with on my setup. Does your receiver have a setting where it will automatically detect the digital input and lock on it? Mine does, but the problem that I have is that frequently the optical input signal apparently goes "totally silent" (not as in a drop out, but as in there is no sound on the program) and when it does the receiver loses its "lock" and when it comes back the reciever has to "lock" on it again and this causes dropouts for me. This would happen everytime there was a change in the scenes, a switch to or from commercial, or just flat silence on the part of the actors. I had to change the receiver setting to be "fixed' onto the optical input - after that no problems.
> So in my case it's not really audio dropouts per se, it was just the receiver going through the re "lock" procedure that caused a "dropout". I could see it everytime on the display on the receiver it would indicate that the receiver was changing modes on me all the time.


Well my receiver does do that...and if there is a point where the digital signal is lost my receiver goes mute until it "re-locks." And, in fact, it does seem to be happening here...not changing modes so much as switching from DD5.1->Nothing->DD5.1->Nothing. But.

This isn't just scene changes or silence between dialog. Here's an example of trying to listen to Mike Greenberg this morning on Mike and Mike discuss the Bears' defense:

"You h--ears defen--est in t--C and th--kend's g--me ag--st the S--wks..."

And so on. Never more than one or two words can be understood at a time.

I don't think I can "lock" my receiver, but I will poke around in the manual and find out for sure.


----------



## eddiwill

FWIW, I was looking over a Dish forum for their Vip622, and there are a LOT of users with what looks like this exact same problem (though some flat out lose the audio altogether, not just a drop out). There is even mention of the whole "reciever lock" issue-- which my receiver also displays on each annoying drop. 

All seem to be using HDMI and optical cable, like most here. I wonder if their is some shared hardware component or software code that would cause this?


----------



## pdawg17

I manually updated to 6.3a a few days ago and had my first 10 second dropout followed by video "burp" while watching Vanished right now (interestingly a FOX show)...the other symptom I've noticed that I haven't read a lot about is when on any of the menus or when switched to PCM, I get a ton of constant crackling noise from my front mains...

I highly doubt D* will bother fixing the audio problems so it looks like I'm either going back to 3.1.5f (I don't want to lose recordings though) or enter the hellish world of the HR20...


----------



## ayrton911

Should I unplug my box from phone line, so I don't get 6.3? I don't want to have my unit ruined by the audio no longer working. What should I do? 

Thanks.


----------



## pdawg17

What's weird for me is that DD shows are fine other than 1 glitch on a FOX program...when in PCM mode however, I get a ton of static and popping sounds out of my speakers...even when on the tivo menu...once I start a DD program, the static stops completely...this never happened until the 6.3a update...I'm going to throw a 3.1.5f image on another drive at lunch today and see if it still happens...


----------



## addictsw

cheer said:


> That's a different problem; that's audio missing in the program stream. Nothing to be done about that one.


Perhaps, but I actually seriously doubt it. I'm willing to bet it's a 6.3 bug.

I'm a long-time HD tivo user and I'm used to the occasional drop-out over the years (I've seen many, but they're more rare than you might think).

Ever since getting 6.3, though I've been getting a very deterministic drop out (8-15 seconds of no audio with perfect video and a slight video glitch at the end). I don't get it very often (probably about once every hour or two or recordings), but often enough to be annoyed. The drop-out is in the recording as rewinding does not change any of it's characteristics.

It's not just localized to a single channel signal issue (this is what I thought the first time I saw it)... I've now seen the exact same repro on three distinct OTA channels.

And, FWIW, I have two HD tivos... one of them plugged in (and received the upgrade). The other one unplugged. The upgraded one is the only one with the audio hiccups.

My setup: HDMI & Toslink to a Denon 3806.

-Michael


----------



## Cheezmo

Ditto what Michael said...


----------



## chris_h

cheer said:


> That's a different problem; that's audio missing in the program stream. Nothing to be done about that one.


I hate to put words in other peoples mouths, even if it is just typing. But if you mean:

"that's audio missing in the program stream from the broadcaster"

then I have to respectfully disagree. When I had my unit on the 6.3 software, I recorded the 49ers game last sunday. I had an audio dropout like what is typical for me (8 seconds all audio MIA, video burp at end). I described in detail (exact time and scene) the audio dropout in our local OTA reception thread over at AVS.

Another local Sacramento user recorded the same game, also via the same channel OTA on a HR10 with 3.1.5f software. He confirmed that he did not have any audio dropout during this time. Obviously, this is a lot stronger confirmation then "all my audio grief started when I got 6.3." But it did.

I suppose you could argue that it is a bit-error in the data stream, but my contention is that the 6.3 software is less able to handle such errors. The result is that the audio stream recording goes out to lunch for 8 seconds, and I suspect the video burp at the end is a result of some sort of firmware intervention to reset the hardware (or maybe an OS call to get more audio data buffers?). This is just speculation on my part.


----------



## chris_h

ayrton911 said:


> Should I unplug my box from phone line, so I don't get 6.3? I don't want to have my unit ruined by the audio no longer working. What should I do?
> 
> Thanks.


I have used the 6.3 software. I was really looking forward to having it. The unit with 6.3 had a hardware failure, so I got a replacement. That replacement is running 3.1.5 and will stay that way until they get this audio dropout issue fixed. Audio is important to me. YMMV.


----------



## cheer

chris_h said:


> I hate to put words in other peoples mouths, even if it is just typing. But if you mean:
> 
> "that's audio missing in the program stream from the broadcaster"
> 
> then I have to respectfully disagree. When I had my unit on the 6.3 software, I recorded the 49ers game last sunday. I had an audio dropout like what is typical for me (8 seconds all audio MIA, video burp at end). I described in detail (exact time and scene) the audio dropout in our local OTA reception thread over at AVS.
> 
> Another local Sacramento user recorded the same game, also via the same channel OTA on a HR10 with 3.1.5f software. He confirmed that he did not have any audio dropout during this time. Obviously, this is a lot stronger confirmation then "all my audio grief started when I got 6.3." But it did.
> 
> I suppose you could argue that it is a bit-error in the data stream, but my contention is that the 6.3 software is less able to handle such errors. The result is that the audio stream recording goes out to lunch for 8 seconds, and I suspect the video burp at the end is a result of some sort of firmware intervention to reset the hardware (or maybe an OS call to get more audio data buffers?). This is just speculation on my part.


Yeah; I think I meant more like a reception problem, which could easily be different between you and the other user (different locales, antennae, etc.). But it also may be something due to 6.3/6.3a.

My issue is altogether different -- it's not in the recorded stream at all. This is demonstrated by (A) switching to PCM (a true dropout wouldn't be fixed by this) or (B) rewinding and replaying -- the gaps are in different spots.

Now I'm running a hacked box, and I replaced my kernel this morning with a newer one. The drops are far less frequent -- I can now hear three or four sentences in between the microblips, whereas before I might hear a word or two, max -- but still there.

I think the real roadblock to getting this solved is the wildly different experiences everyone is having. While there may be a common root cause or two, there are clearly several different problems occurring.


----------



## JohnDG

> I suppose you could argue that it is a bit-error in the data stream, but my contention is that the 6.3 software is less able to handle such errors.


Thoughts:
1) There are indications that the "loud (really loud!) static pop" problem has been fixed for legacy receivers (see the "3802" thread).
2) Changing to "PCM" for replay will not fix the "15-20 second dropout" problem if the DD stream after the burp was not recorded at all.

I would suggest the way to test for a PCM workaround is for somebody who has 2 HD TiVos to set one to "record PCM only (don't record DD stream)" and for the other HD TiVo set to record DD. Then record the same show on both, and then replay test when the problem occurs. As the "not DD" stream is really the stereo stream -- which, IIUC, is totally separate -- it should not exhibit same long dropout. Changing the HD TiVo to playback a recorded DD stream as PCM won't help if the stream doesn't get captured to begin with.

I'm not saying that no DD is adequate workaround -- it is not -- but verifying exactly what the problem is will help in the "fix this f***ing problem" feedback to DTV. 

jdg


----------



## Lije Baley

Has the problem been isolated to the use of certain receiver brands? I notice several people with Denon receivers having DD dropouts. Is it occurring in Yamaha, HK, B&O, etc?


----------



## cheer

I don't think we've really narrowed it down, since there are so many different types of dropout problems. FWIW, I'm using a Sony.


----------



## steven-h

I have not had any dropouts after the upgrade and I had none before. Feeding Sony STR DE-1075. DD is just fine here. Upgraded yesterday of a not hacked unit.


----------



## pdawg17

I am having very few dropouts but am getting random loud popping sounds when playing anything off of the satellite feed...it does not happen on OTA...it even happens when on the menu screen...I put a 3.1.5f image on another drive last night to troubleshoot and guess what? No popping...so add this popping to the list of random problems with 6.3a...


----------



## willardcpa

cheer said:


> ....FWIW, I'm using a Sony.


Which model, if I might ask?? As a follow up to my earlier idea - I checked on mine and it has a "mode" button, which when pushed toggles between "digital", "analog" and "automatic". At work right now so don't have access to my model #. But when I bought it 5-6 years ago it was the top model just below the ES series.


----------



## steven-h

pdawg17 said:


> I am having very few dropouts but am getting random loud popping sounds when playing anything off of the satellite feed...it does not happen on OTA...it even happens when on the menu screen...I put a 3.1.5f image on another drive last night to troubleshoot and guess what? No popping...so add this popping to the list of random problems with 6.3a...


I have read at least one post during this whole thing saying that when they went back to a stock unit no zipper etc. and upgraded to 6.3a there were no more audio problems. This indicating it is not 3.6a but zipper causing the problem. I guess it would be interesting to see just what percentage of problems occur in hacked units vs stock.


----------



## cheer

willardcpa said:


> Which model, if I might ask?? As a follow up to my earlier idea - I checked on mine and it has a "mode" button, which when pushed toggles between "digital", "analog" and "automatic". At work right now so don't have access to my model #. But when I bought it 5-6 years ago it was the top model just below the ES series.


Mine is a STR-K750P -- a lower-end receiver that came bundled with the speakers for under $300.  But it's been workmanlike until now.

I don't have a mode setting -- or at least, it's not like yours. It toggles between "A.F.D. Auto" and various PL-II or PL-I modes -- no setting to lock it in digital. However, peering through the manual made me notice another setting.

There is a "decode priority" setting -- or, rather, two settings; one for the DVD input (a.k.a. coax) and one for the Video 2 input (a.k.a. Toslink). The default on the DVD input is "PCM" and the manual just says to use this for audio CD and DVD sources. The default on the Video 2 input is "Auto" and it says to use this for audio CD, DVD, DTS-CD and DTS-LD sources, BUT that on audio CDs (i.e. PCM), "You may not be able to listen the[sic] very first moments of each track."

Video 2, of course, is where all of my Toslink boxen (including the HR10-250) are connected (via a Toslink switch). I will try switching that setting, since I never listen to audio CDs through this receiver.


----------



## cheer

steven-h said:


> I have read at least one post during this whole thing saying that when they went back to a stock unit no zipper etc. and upgraded to 6.3a there were no more audio problems. This indicating it is not 3.6a but zipper causing the problem. I guess it would be interesting to see just what percentage of problems occur in hacked units vs stock.


Link? I'd very much like to investigate this.


----------



## chris_h

steven-h said:


> I have read at least one post during this whole thing saying that when they went back to a stock unit no zipper etc. and upgraded to 6.3a there were no more audio problems. This indicating it is not 3.6a but zipper causing the problem. I guess it would be interesting to see just what percentage of problems occur in hacked units vs stock.


My 6.3 unit was not zippered. I did upgrade the storage to add a 400 GB drive for 650 GB total, but the OS was stock. I had the 8 second dropouts on recording with a video burp at the end. The fact that the missing audio was repeatable on rewind, and audio was missing from the analog outputs at the exact same time, tells me that this issue has nothing to do with the reciever I am using.


----------



## addictsw

It's not localized to hacked units.

I have a virgin HR10-250 that's now doing the 8-15 second audio dropout followed by a brief video hiccup problem.

This, though infrequent (once every one-three hours of OTA HD), has been happening ever since 6.3 and was not happening before this.

-Michael


----------



## DennisMileHi

I have two unhacked HR10-250s. One has the 6.3a upgrade and the other does not. Last night we were watching our recording of the Tuesday House on Fox OTA and had our first long (10 sec?) audio dropout while House is talking to the teenager by his motorcycle. I didn't really notice any video glitch when the audio returned. Never saw this before. Using HDMI and toslink out.

I just checked the recording of House on my other non-upgraded Tivo and there is no audio drop out. Also toslink but using component video.

Has anybody talked to D* tech support about this?? I hope it doesn't happen too often as it is annoying depending on what audio you missed. I am not too good at lip reading.


----------



## fasTLane

I am removing the phone connection.


----------



## JoeSchueller

I know this is horrible, but could you at least do Closed Captioning to get you through until D*/TiVo gets a fix out?


----------



## cheer

JoeSchueller said:


> I know this is horrible, but could you at least do Closed Captioning to get you through until D*/TiVo gets a fix out?


Bah. I'll go back to 3.1.5f before I do that.

As for calling D*...yeah, I did. They're certain it's my cable. Or cables, since I tried three. Nice of D* to hire the thinking impaired.


----------



## pdawg17

cheer said:


> Bah. I'll go back to 3.1.5f before I do that.
> 
> As for calling D*...yeah, I did. They're certain it's my cable. Or cables, since I tried three. Nice of D* to hire the thinking impaired.


Yeah...I called them to...I would be upset at them but I didn't expect much out of it anyway...


----------



## dougfetter

fasTLane said:


> I am removing the phone connection.


I also do not wish to do without DD audio, so I pulled my phone line out earlier today. I have my HR10-250 with version 3.1.5f connected via component & Toslink to a Denon 4306 and do not get any dropouts with the older Tivo software.


----------



## JoeSchueller

Should we set up a poll of some sort to see just how widespread this is. I'm dying to know what % are having problems. I don't have 6.3 yet, so I am concerned, but I'm also dying for some decent performance.


----------



## Larry Hutchinson

addictsw said:


> Perhaps, but I actually seriously doubt it. I'm willing to bet it's a 6.3 bug.
> 
> I'm a long-time HD tivo user and I'm used to the occasional drop-out over the years (I've seen many, but they're more rare than you might think).
> 
> Ever since getting 6.3, though I've been getting a very deterministic drop out (8-15 seconds of no audio with perfect video and a slight video glitch at the end). I don't get it very often (probably about once every hour or two or recordings), but often enough to be annoyed. The drop-out is in the recording as rewinding does not change any of it's characteristics.
> 
> It's not just localized to a single channel signal issue (this is what I thought the first time I saw it)... I've now seen the exact same repro on three distinct OTA channels.


That is exactly my situation also.

I want my 3.1 back!!!!!

Also, today I experienced a spontaneous reboot.

Did I mention that I want my 3.1 back?

And here I was thinking of buying an S3 but now I'm not sure if I want any TiVo now.


----------



## altan

I was concerned about this audio issue, but I'm happy to report I'm not experiencing audio drop outs after receiving the 6.3a upgrade yesterday. I've tried out several channels, both OTA and from SAT.

My unhacked HR10-250 is connected via SPDIF to a Harmon Kardon receiver. DD5.1 still works fine. I'll continue to monitor and update if I notice the problem.

... Altan


----------



## Cheezmo

Larry Hutchinson said:


> Also, today I experienced a spontaneous reboot.


If you have more spontaneous reboots, see if you can find a pattern as to what channel you are tuned to. In my case it is a specific OTA HD channel that occasionally gives mine fits.


----------



## rvaniwaa

JoeSchueller said:


> Should we set up a poll of some sort to see just how widespread this is. I'm dying to know what % are having problems. I don't have 6.3 yet, so I am concerned, but I'm also dying for some decent performance.


Just set it up.


----------



## josejrp

DennisMileHi said:


> I have two unhacked HR10-250s. One has the 6.3a upgrade and the other does not. Last night we were watching our recording of the Tuesday House on Fox OTA and had our first long (10 sec?) audio dropout while House is talking to the teenager by his motorcycle. I didn't really notice any video glitch when the audio returned. Never saw this before. Using HDMI and toslink out.


Interesting that we had the exact same audio dropout at the exact time(my first time too)... Since you are in Colorado and I am in Atlanta, it does not look like a local station issue. Maybe the DD stream can get glitchy and 6.3 is more sensitive to it? So far, I've only had it in the House episode... but that is about the only 5.1 show I currently see on Fox. It seems from other reports that the audio drops mostly happen during Fox shows.

It is also interesting that some people have the 5-10 second infrequent audio drops, and some other people have almost constant and shorter duration audio drops.


----------



## Larry Hutchinson

Cheezmo said:


> If you have more spontaneous reboots, see if you can find a pattern as to what channel you are tuned to. In my case it is a specific OTA HD channel that occasionally gives mine fits.


So far just one reboot. It was on the PBS (KOPB-DT) station that also has audio dropouts since the 6.3 "upgrade."

BTW, KOPB does not transmit Dolby 5.1 -- just plain stereo.

When the dropouts happen, my receiver says "no data."

I haven't tried analog out since I have seen reports that that shows the problem as well.


----------



## louiss3000

Orient Express said:


> Is there consensus that this problem only seems to be showing up on Fox programming?


I have seen this on Fox only..


----------



## Budget_HT

Some earlier reports listed ESPN HD also. I wonder if having 720p in common has anything to do with it. Has anyone seen/heard audio dropouts on 1080i programs? Even the PBS incidents I have read about on other threads seem to have 720p in common.


----------



## chris_h

josejrp said:


> Interesting that we had the exact same audio dropout at the exact time(my first time too)... Since you are in Colorado and I am in Atlanta, it does not look like a local station issue. Maybe the DD stream can get glitchy and 6.3 is more sensitive to it? So far, I've only had it in the House episode... but that is about the only 5.1 show I currently see on Fox. It seems from other reports that the audio drops mostly happen during Fox shows.


Have you two worked with each other to determine that it truly is the exact same time? In other words, maybe confirmed that the last word you each heard was "motorcycle" for example. I don't watch this show, so I don't know if motorcycle scene was long or short. It might also be useful to "the first word I heard after the dropout was "X". I think this "we have identical dropouts from two different fox affiliates" would be a good piece of data to have. Also, it is my understanding that the fox affiliates are pretty automated and that the network operations center (NOC) "controls" them all in a similar way. I have not done much research in this area.


----------



## WeBoat

I'm having audio dropouts only on one channel. OTA 7-1 out of Miami. Fox channel. It breaks up every time I whatch it. Audio drops for about 10 seconds every three of four minutes.

In two years I've never had a drop out. With 6.3a it happened the first time I changed to that channel.

The other OTA and HD channels seem fine.


----------



## DennisMileHi

chris_h said:


> Have you two worked with each other to determine that it truly is the exact same time? In other words, maybe confirmed that the last word you each heard was "motorcycle" for example. I don't watch this show, so I don't know if motorcycle scene was long or short. It might also be useful to "the first word I heard after the dropout was "X". I think this "we have identical dropouts from two different fox affiliates" would be a good piece of data to have. Also, it is my understanding that the fox affiliates are pretty automated and that the network operations center (NOC) "controls" them all in a similar way. I have not done much research in this area.


I've deleted the recording. If (when!) I see this again, I will save it and do some better analysis. I am considering unplugging my phone line on my other Tivo so I may be able to prove something. This better be fixed when 24 cranks back up or I am going to be really mad at D*/Tivo.


----------



## BOBCAT

I started seeing audio dropouts on HD net and Discovery HD that started about a week ago, and I am still on 3.1.5f. Could it be D* having a problem and not 6.3?


----------



## Cheezmo

No, because many of us are having the problem on OTA channels also. It not a normal "audio dropout", there is a very specific pattern to it. Audio drops out for 10-20 seconds, then there is a hickup/macroblocking in the video and it starts back up again. Surely there are other random dropouts that people will have from time to time no matter what version of the software they have but there are very specific characteristics to this new 6.3 problem.


----------



## jimmymiko

Who needs 6.3a anyway. If the basic function of the DVR is broken with the 6.3 or 6.3a upgrade who would let the unit upgrade now? I am not going to be plugging in my phone line until I see another OS patch. I am still at 3.1 and happy because I don't have the audio issues on OTA. Again I am not sure at this point unless you don't use OTA you would want the update? Sure faster menu, guide and folders but if the basic functions don't work why bother. Maybe DTV will give anybody with 6.3 or 6.3a a credit until the unit works.:down:


----------



## Markman07

Fox NFL pregame show on OTA has had a few already. I have HDMI and TSOLINK using a SONY STR=DE885 receiver.


----------



## jhimmel

Is anyone getting these dropouts using HDMI -only-?

Just read the entire thread and I'm wondering if the problem is limited to Toslink. I don't believe I have seen any reports here from anyone passing DD over HDMI.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

jimmymiko said:


> Who needs 6.3a anyway. If the basic function of the DVR is broken with the 6.3 or 6.3a upgrade who would let the unit upgrade now? I am not going to be plugging in my phone line until I see another OS patch. I am still at 3.1 and happy because I don't have the audio issues on OTA. Again I am not sure at this point unless you don't use OTA you would want the update? Sure faster menu, guide and folders but if the basic functions don't work why bother. Maybe DTV will give anybody with 6.3 or 6.3a a credit until the unit works.:down:


Here, here jimmymiko,

Couldn't agree more. From what I've read on these forums (and I've read most all the posts), the audio dropouts are probably caused by 3 things:

1) The D* and OTA feeds themselves (most likely)
2) Bad sectors on the drives exposed by the 6.3/6.3a upgrade causing the dropouts.
3) The software itself (least likely)

I pulled my phone line out long ago as soon as these reports started. I replaced my drive about 1 month ago. The menu / SP speed is just fine (15 seconds worst-case) so I have *everything* to lose.

At this point you're probably thinking, if he believes the software is the least likely cause, and he's got a brand new (error-free) disk, why doesn't he go for it? The feeds won't change either way. Answer is, I'm happy with my unit the way it is and I learned years ago with computers, if it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## Cheezmo

Here's my vote for it being a software problem. This from the kernel log during one a couple of minutes ago during the Cowboys vs. Titans game on Fox...



Code:


Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full. 
Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN 
Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop -->    SUCCESS 
Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop -->    SUCCESS 
Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

Cheezmo said:


> Here's my vote for it being a software problem. This from the kernel log during one a couple of minutes ago during the Cowboys vs. Titans game on Fox...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full.
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


Interesting, do you have any logs from 3.1?


----------



## Cheezmo

No, but is anyone having these dropouts with 3.1?


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

Cheezmo said:


> No, but is anyone having these dropouts with 3.1?


Yes, I have. They are no more than 2 seconds long, however.


----------



## scottie

Received the 6.3 update last night. Add me to the list of those experiencing audio dropouts. Several during the Cowboys vs Titans game on Fox via OTA.


----------



## narrod

3) The software itself (least likely)

I am convinced it is the software. My machine that still has 3.15 is working fine. The 6.3a
machine continues to experience dropouts. Fox OTA is the worst.


----------



## narrod

Alos, TosLink is not the problem. I very seldom have my home theater on. I'm using a straight HDMI connection from receiver to TV.


----------



## jhimmel

Cheezmo said:


> Here's my vote for it being a software problem. This from the kernel log during one a couple of minutes ago during the Cowboys vs. Titans game on Fox...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full.
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


I would say that is some compelling evidence. Any idea how a ring buffer gets "too full"?


----------



## steven-h

How do we get this information to the correct people at Direct TV so we can get it fixed?


----------



## altan

jhimmel said:


> I would say that is some compelling evidence. Any idea how a ring buffer gets "too full"?


The HW is putting data into a circular buffer. This is a buffer where there is no explicit start and end point. The end point moves as data is added and the start point moves as data is removed from the buffer. The software is controlling the process of routing this data to a destination (be it the HDD, the MPEG decoder, or both). If for some reason the software falls behind and the start/write location in the buffer reaches the end/read location, the buffer is full and no more data can go there. Incoming data is dropped at this point.

This sort of thing happens when the software cannot handle the input data rate that the HW is using and the buffer fills up. Once the buffer is full (start/write position equals end/read position), the HW stops putting data into the buffer --- data is lost.

The ring buffer should be sized so that under maximum latency it will never fill up.

Guess at what could cause this? Perhaps additional software running on the Tivo utilizing CPU cycles. Perhaps Hard Drives with smaller buffers or longer seek times. Hard Drives with bad sectors. That sort of thing. If you are doing 3 HD programs at 18Mbps each, you need sustained throughput of close to 60Mbps...

Anyway, the above may be compeltely wrong.

... Altan


----------



## BayTiVo

I'm having frequent audio dropots and complete video freezing and I'm still on 3.1.5. I seem to only have problems when a HD channel is involved. No problem with 2 SD channels, but having one HD channel causes the problem on the SD also. Started about 2-3 weeks ago and is now unwatchable.

I've swapped out all cables, removed the multiswitch, disconnected OTA and run mfs fixes on the drive using kickstart. This sure looks like a change in the HD stream that is affecting the buffering capability.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

The previous two posts tend to add support for my theory. 

OK, so the audio drops out when a buffer fills. This does not prove it's the software. Bad sectors are still a possibility. 

BayTiVo has problems on 3.1 as I do. I'll add that when I had my original disk (for 2years) the audio dropped only occasionally, and only for 1-2 seconds. Then as the disk began to fail, dropouts were much more frequent. In the final stage, the machine started robooting by itself. A new disk cured everything except an occasional 1-2 sec dropout. One could attribute these to the source, or it could be software, but I have been on 3.1 the whole time. 

If the upgrading of software causes bad sectors to emerge as problematic, then the update script should scan the drive and prevent the upgrade. Unfortunately, this makes TiVo more like a computer that needs support, and less like the information appliance that it is intended to be


----------



## merlin803

Add me to the list, I have only had the update for a couple of games but while watching the Fox OTA recorded Lions game I received multiple audio drops...


----------



## BayTiVo

I ran the Tivo kickstart with both "57" and "58" options for mfs cleanup. If bad sectors were to blame, that should have cleared the issue.

The problem is worse if HD channels are involved, but I have now seen it with only SD channels (not as bad, though).


----------



## Russelle

I havent had any drop outs but it locked up and rebooted twice today while changing channels on the guide.


----------



## chris_h

Cheezmo said:


> Here's my vote for it being a software problem. This from the kernel log during one a couple of minutes ago during the Cowboys vs. Titans game on Fox...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full.
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


This is what I suspected, based on the video burp I (and others) are seeing just prior to the audio returning. Can you please confirm (if you know) that the 17:27:53 is HH:MM:SS format? I would have expected to see an 8 second gap between audio buffer overrun and audio restart, but it could be that something in the restart process takes 8 seconds to kick in.


----------



## Cheezmo

All those log entries appear at the end of the incident, when the hiccup occurs and the audio comes back. I had two Tivo's running simultaneously on the same channel and while they both exhibited the problem, it never occurred simultaneously. In many cases there were two incidents on the same machine exactly 1 minute and 5 seconds apart. Then mysteriously around half time no more problems occurred on either one.


----------



## DaveWhittle

I have the bug too:

_Receiver Make/Model: _*Denon 3803*
_HR10-250 S/W version(s)_ *6.3a*
_If you rewind the live buffer and/or watch recordings, do the dropouts always occur in the same exact places?_ *yes*
_Does switching output to PCM eliminate the dropouts?_ *Don't know*
_How often, in a 15-minute period, does this happen? (1-2 times, 3-5 times, 6-10 times, continuously):_ *varies, so far have noticed no more than 1 occurrence in 1 hour if at all*
_Does your analog audio also go out during this time? _*Don't know. *
_Does the video "burp" for a frame or two just prior to audio coming back? _*Yes*

I have seen it during Saturday Night Live (NBC), I think a Fox football game and during Amazing Race (non-HD on CBS), all OTA.


----------



## rifleman69

Had it here as well, noticed it during both the Panthers/Saints on Fox, the Cincy/NE game on CBS, and the Seahawks/Bears on NBC today. It probably happened probably five times total during these games Perfect video with no sound for about eight seconds and then a small pixellization with the audio coming back. Rewinding and going back through the same spot replicates the problem.

I'm just hooked up component from the HR10-250 to my tv. I do have two hard drives in there too if that helps anyone.


----------



## eengert

Can anyone with 6.3/6.3a and the DD via toslink audio dropout problem confirm or deny that switching to PCM output and/or switching to RCA audio cables while viewing a live program fixes the dropout problem? Obviously that's not an acceptable long-term solution if it works, but if I knew that it was a confirmed workaround, I would consider letting my box upgrade and use stereo audio until they sent down a new version to fix this bug. I really would like the guide speed and folders, but if it causes programs to be annoyingly unwatchable under any audio setting, it's not worth it. I really only want to hear from those who've had 6.3 dropouts. I understand some haven't experienced them, and I hope to be one of those, but in case I am, I want to know if there's a confirmed workaround. Thanks.


----------



## Lee L

DennisMileHi said:


> I have two unhacked HR10-250s. One has the 6.3a upgrade and the other does not. Last night we were watching our recording of the Tuesday House on Fox OTA and had our first long (10 sec?) audio dropout while House is talking to the teenager by his motorcycle. I didn't really notice any video glitch when the audio returned. Never saw this before. Using HDMI and toslink out.


I have a box that is still at 3.1.5f and I have had an epidemic of dropouts lately. Exactly as described here, a few seconds of no sound followed by a brief video glitch upoin the sound returning.

I have a Yamaha HTR-5490 receiver and use toslink and component. The machine has had an additional 250 gig hard drive since Twinbreeze came out with their bracket but is unhacked in all other aspects.

I wonder if D* has just been playing with the signal and it is a coincidence?


----------



## gquiring

I tried watching Batman last night on HBO HD and was 100% fed up with the audio dropouts. It's been unusually high for about the last 2 weeks. I do not have 6.3.


----------



## Krookut

gquiring said:


> I tried watching Batman last night on HBO HD and was 100% fed up with the audio dropouts. It's been unusually high for about the last 2 weeks. I do not have 6.3.


Agreed. I think something's wrong with 3.1x as well.


----------



## chris_h

eengert said:


> Can anyone with 6.3/6.3a and the DD via toslink audio dropout problem confirm or deny that switching to PCM output and/or switching to RCA audio cables while viewing a live program fixes the dropout problem? Obviously that's not an acceptable long-term solution if it works, but if I knew that it was a confirmed workaround, I would consider letting my box upgrade and use stereo audio until they sent down a new version to fix this bug. I really would like the guide speed and folders, but if it causes programs to be annoyingly unwatchable under any audio setting, it's not worth it. I really only want to hear from those who've had 6.3 dropouts. I understand some haven't experienced them, and I hope to be one of those, but in case I am, I want to know if there's a confirmed workaround. Thanks.


I no longer have 6.3 as that unit died, and I won't let the replacement update to 6.3 until this issue is fixed. When I did have 6.3 running, the PCM output workaround did not help. This makes sense, since what I was seeing is a record problem, not a playback problem. When audio is missing for 8 seconds on the recording, it does not matter what you do to the outputs (PCM, DD, analog), there is simple no sound to be heard.

I suspect that the people who are able to use the PCM workaround are experienceing playback issues, not the same issue those of us with "all audio missing 8 seconds and then returns with a video burp" issue are seeing.


----------



## eengert

chris_h said:


> I no longer have 6.3 as that unit died, and I won't let the replacement update to 6.3 until this issue is fixed. When I did have 6.3 running, the PCM output workaround did not help. This makes sense, since what I was seeing is a record problem, not a playback problem. When audio is missing for 8 seconds on the recording, it does not matter what you do to the outputs (PCM, DD, analog), there is simple no sound to be heard.
> 
> I suspect that the people who are able to use the PCM workaround are experienceing playback issues, not the same issue those of us with "all audio missing 8 seconds and then returns with a video burp" issue are seeing.


Possibly true, but there are two different places to set audio type. I was asking about the output audio type for a live program, but have you tried changing the recorded audio type to see if there are audio dropouts on a recorded program when you have it record in PCM and playback in PCM?


----------



## chris_h

eengert said:


> Possibly true, but there are two different places to set audio type. I was asking about the output audio type for a live program, but have you tried changing the recorded audio type to see if there are audio dropouts on a recorded program when you have it record in PCM and playback in PCM?


Not to get too much into semantics, but even live programs are recorded, you are just watching a buffered recording. I never got a chance to try PCM recording prior to my 6.3 unit dying. It is hard for me to say if giving up DD all together is better than the periodic audio dropouts with DD. Probably not.


----------



## Freightdog

FWIW, my HR10 has acted a bit wierd over the past couple of weeks, but it is still on 3.1..

On Mail Call, SUnday night, had a 30sec audio drop out.

Also, unit rebooted Friday night around 11:15. Has never done that before.


----------



## jasonjmp

Have 2 HR10s.

1 hearty care free unit forever, started dropping 8-15 second audio on FOX, days after it upgraded on its own about 2 weeks ago. Drop outs got us very angry during FOX's OTA (WashDC) Prison Break recording tonight. I would estimate between 6-12 drop outs. Not a problem on other channels. So far.

1 unupgraded unit will be unplugged tonight.


----------



## pdawg17

jasonjmp said:


> Have 2 HR10s.
> 
> 1 hearty care free unit forever, started dropping 8-15 second audio on FOX, days after it upgraded on its own about 2 weeks ago. Drop outs got us very angry during FOX's OTA (WashDC) Prison Break recording tonight. I would estimate between 6-12 drop outs. Not a problem on other channels. So far.
> 
> 1 unupgraded unit will be unplugged tonight.


Interesting...I had about the same amount on Prison Break tonight as well in the Bay Area...really irritating...can anyone with 3.1.5f confirm if they saw dropouts on Prison Break tonight?

Edit: Now I'm watching Vanished and I've had 6 dropouts in the first 15 minutes...this is just inexcusable...D* may be losing another customer soon...once I'm caught up on my shows I'm going to go back to 3.1.5f...over a year wait for this update and I'm going to end up right back where I was...

Now I just read Sotapoppy's post below...what the heck are we supposed to make of this? Why is it FOX most often and it happens on some 3.1 boxes? But some 6.3 and 3.1 boxes are fine? Could there have been any hardware changes to the HR10s over time?


----------



## David Platt

pdawg17 said:


> Interesting...I had about the same amount on Prison Break tonight as well in the Bay Area...really irritating...can anyone with 3.1.5f confirm if they saw dropouts on Prison Break tonight?


No audio dropouts for me on 3.15f recording OTA on Portland's FOX affiliate.


----------



## sotapoppy

pdawg17 said:


> Interesting...I had about the same amount on Prison Break tonight as well in the Bay Area...really irritating...can anyone with 3.1.5f confirm if they saw dropouts on Prison Break tonight?


I had numerous dropouts on local fox OTA during Prison Break tonight in the Minneapolis area. I'm on 3.1. Before this, dropouts have not really been an issue for me.


----------



## Indiana627

Had 2-3 dropouts during Prison Break last night on Buffalo Fox OTA with DD turned on. 6.3a installed last week. This was the first time I've had the problem.


----------



## fasTLane

Are all timeslots affected on the Fox OTA broadcasts? I am going to watch tonite and see if my non-upgraded HR10-250 is afflicted with this.


----------



## altan

I had my first audio dropout while watching recorded Prison Break last night. The video kept going just fine, the audio stopped for 5 seconds or so. This was about 50 minutes into the program. I have 6.3a. Rewinding and playing the content again causes the same audio dropout.

I was lucky because I was recording the same content on my Media Center PC. Both the HR10-250 and the Media Center PC are fed from the same OTA antenna. There is a single splitter. One feed goes to the HR10-250 and the other goes to the Media Center.

It was interesting that the Media Center recording of Prison Break did not have the audio drop.

The Media Center isn't doing Dolby Digital, however, while the HR10-250 is.

... Altan


----------



## fredflint

After getting 6.3 and 6.3a, and all the OTA FOX audio dropouts in the process, I switched my season passes for Prison Break and Vanished to the FOX East feed (channel 88, I think) out of NYC. No audio dropouts since. I'm just glad I have a choice.


----------



## judson_west

I've got 3.1 and had experienced several dropouts, some lasting minutes, during a recent episode of Cold Case. This was recorded from the SAT channel. When the dropout occurred, I lost the voices, but background noises and music continued. When it returned, the receiver picked up a DD 2.0 signal later switching to a DD 5.1 signal. I have never had any problems like this since I owned the HR10 6 months ago. I use a Toslink cable to my Sony STR-DA50ES receiver.


----------



## Lee L

The fact that you had some of the audio makes me think that is probably a local station issue. You might want to call engineering to see if they know what happened.


----------



## rmassey

Krookut said:


> Agreed. I think something's wrong with 3.1x as well.


I have an HR10-250, 3.1.x, unhacked, stock unit and I am getting many audio drop outs using DD setting for OTA HD recordings. I have not tried to switch to PCM yet. I don't think this is 6.3 related.


----------



## 68sting

I also have a 250. My problems started Friday night and are only on recorded progaming. I record my programs on the hd west coast channels. Two shows I recorded Friday(81,83) had only back ground audio no voices. The commercials were fine which makes me think the programs are in dd and the commercials are not. It's only recording one of the surround channels info in dd. Went to watch Cold Case today and it worked for about 15 min. (an improvement) and then dropped the audio again. I called D* and they are clueless. I still show 3.1 software. My phone line hasn't been hooked up for a while and they though thats why I didn't get the upgrade. So I hooked it up and the said I should have it in 24 hours. Here's my set up.

HD250 into a Clabs hd splitter to my theater room, MB, and family room. The home theater has a tos link and the other two rooms get analog. I had the unit set to record in DD. 

I have changed audio to record in analog and will wait for the update.


----------



## toms111la

My unhacked 250 was upgraded Friday night. Since then I have been having frequent drop outs along the lines of what has been described. It seems to be all OTA HD programing. I called D* today and, as usual, the person I am talking to is barely listening while going through their D* for dummies play book. Is it plugged in? etc. They will not even acknowledge that anyone else is having the problem. I initially set up to Record in DD. I sometimes turn on my DD receiver but often just use the TV sound system. I got the dropouts both through the TV and trough the receiver when I set the 250 to output DD. I turned the record option not record in DD. This seems like an unnecessary workaround.


----------



## Paul_PDX

judson_west said:


> I've got 3.1 and had experienced several dropouts, some lasting minutes, during a recent episode of Cold Case. This was recorded from the SAT channel. When the dropout occurred, I lost the voices, but background noises and music continued. When it returned, the receiver picked up a DD 2.0 signal later switching to a DD 5.1 signal. I have never had any problems like this since I owned the HR10 6 months ago. I use a Toslink cable to my Sony STR-DA50ES receiver.


I had a problems with audio in Sunday's Cold Case recording as well (on 3.15f still) at what would have been around 9:22 Pacific time. The strange thing is I also had problems with Desparate Housewives recorded at the same time.

While the two of them were recording I was watching an HD program I had recorded earlier.

I wonder if some of this is that more of us are pushing the limits with multiple OTA HD recordings at the same time (and maybe coming out with higher bit rates this year).


----------



## Todd

judson_west said:


> I've got 3.1 and had experienced several dropouts, some lasting minutes, during a recent episode of Cold Case. This was recorded from the SAT channel. When the dropout occurred, I lost the voices, but background noises and music continued. When it returned, the receiver picked up a DD 2.0 signal later switching to a DD 5.1 signal. I have never had any problems like this since I owned the HR10 6 months ago. I use a Toslink cable to my Sony STR-DA50ES receiver.


That particular problem with getting background audio but no voices is not a TiVo issue. It's an issue with the station. I've seen that issue a few times in the past and it's a problem going between 5.1 and 2.0 audio at the station's end.


----------



## jasonjmp

Following up:

Prison Break OTA last night on my 3.1 tivo did not have *any* drop outs, but my OTA 6.3 tivo which experienced between 6-12 drop outs (as i posted), some only minutes apart. I had never ever had any audio drop outs before 6.3, and I have only noticed it on fox (washington dc). Hero's recorded in SD, with some audio sync issues for 3/4th of the show, but i blame my local station for that, as it happens here and there.


----------



## WeKnSmith

We have a 3.15f & a 6.3a unit. Both are connected to my Sony KV-32HS420 TV, which is connected to my receiver via RCA audio cables. The 6.3a is connected to the TV via HDMI, and the 3.15f is using RCA Audio & Component Video to connect to the TV. Both are set to NOT record in DD. The 6.3a is set to PCM (otherwise there is no audio). Not a single problem... 

The receiver does not have a Toslink input anyway. I could not care less about DD for now. The HR10s are running fine, and I'm happy to keep it that way. 

I am sure all of this info does not apply, but I would recommend that someone that is having these drop outs should just try using RCA cables for a bit to see if the issue goes away. 

Sounds to me as if the problem is actually something wrong with the broadcast stream.


----------



## gregftlaud

so since the upgrade i've been having about 10 second audio dropouts on just one ota channel here in ft lauderdale....fox wsvn 7-1. i know i read on here about audio dropout after the upgrade...but i have dd disabled (using pcm but didnt fix it) in the settings menu.......so is this happening because i'm using the optical cable and should i switch to the red/white audio cables until the software fix?


----------



## Jimmmmbo!

Figures.

Here I looked forward to getting 6.3(a) from 3.1.5. As soon as I thought I should wait (and pull the phone plug) because of peoples' issues with audio dropouts, my unit says "pending restart." No choice, I restart.

Now, audio drops out on my Yamaha receiver and I can easily count "1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8" and then it returns. It doesn't matter whether I have Dolby Digital only or Dolby Digital converted to PCM (according to Tivo). I recorded the problem area, and it drops out every time. In fact, right now, I can't even get Dolby Digital (because the local OTA deactivated it for weather cr*p) and I still get 8 sec dropouts.

We're hosed.


----------



## bwaldron

Bad luck!

It does seem that there are real problems with 6.3a for a significant number of people; surprised that this wasn't caught during whatever beta testing was done...and also a little surprised that D* hasn't suspended the roll-out.

I've pulled my phone line from the back of my unit for now. Reluctantly, because I have been looking forward to the update. I'd rather deal with interface slowness than the audio issues, though.

Hopefully the issues will get resolved soon.



Jimmmmbo! said:


> Figures.
> Here I looked forward to getting 6.3(a) from 3.1.5. As soon as I thought I should wait (and pull the phone plug) because of peoples' issues with audio dropouts, my unit says "pending restart." No choice, I restart.


----------



## gregftlaud

does this new "audio drc" setting actually work for anyone? it doesnt for me.


----------



## hhh222

One of my HR10's had 6.3a now and has rebooted at least 3 times and is acting odd in other ways. Missed the 1st 21 minutes of Veronica Mars, allowed me to be recording 2 other shows when "Nip Tuck" was supposed to be recording as a season pass.


----------



## stephen_m

Well that didn't take long. Within a half hour of the upgrade I got a 10 second audio drop out on Fox OTA. I've had the unit for almost two years and have had zero dropouts with 3.1. I'm glad I left the other receivers phone line unhooked and can put that one in the living room. Too bad too, the speed and folders are great. Ugh !!


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

The nature of these forums is to promote information exchange at very high speed. 

You, collectively, have shown there is an issue with the upgrade to 6.3x in that it can cause audio dropouts in some boxes. There is no reason to discuss this further. I recommend that you spend your time calling Directv customer support and report your problem, rather than trying to further troubleshoot the issue.

Directv will fix this audio dropout problem in a subsequent release of software. 

It will take several more days or weeks, or even months, but they will fix this issue for those of you that are experiencing it. They have to, or there is no product for sale folks and you will leave for greener pastures! 

It will seem like an eternity, because forums work in minutes and hours and software bug fixes work in days/weeks/months.

It's really as simple as that.

If your're still on 3.1, and you can't tolerate this problem, unplug your phone line now.


----------



## JaserLet

I too am now getting audio dropouts with 6.3a. I had no such problems with 3.1.5f. I too have called DirecTV to complain and will call again tomorrow during business hours.


----------



## ElectricPickle

When you call DirecTV ask for "Advanced Technologies" support. Don't even bother with the front line people.


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## ddingle

When the software updates,does it update the software version in the "information" page? I have a customer with similar audio issues on OTA HD channels, in addition however he is getting an "invalid access card" banner intermittently? His software is still showing 3.something. I am suspicious that something else is wrong with his? Thanks


----------



## Herb S.

Audio dropouts on Prison Break OTA, one lasted about 10 sec the other less than a second. No dropouts on Vanished following program same station. Have 6.3a. Have not had dropouts on non OTA programs like Battlestar. Anyone know # for advanced tech support. Using optical output going to Denon AVR 3300.


----------



## primetime73

My neighbor called me on Monday night to see if I was having audio dropouts during Monday Night Football on ESPNHD. He is using my old Samsung HD receiver and was losing audio for 10 seconds or more and was experiencing it while on the phone with me. I have the HR10 still running the old 3.1f software and had zero audio dropouts using the optical output to my Denon receiver. He said he noticed the problem on UHD and ESPNHD all night, but when he switched to ESPN SD the audio was fine. I guess the audio dropouts are not limited to the HR10.


----------



## toms111la

As I mentioned earlier, I did not have audio problems until my 250 was upgraded normally on last Friday night. I almost never watch anything live so I can't say if it makes any difference if live or recorded. My guess is that it does not because everything is actually being recorded. As far as I am able to tell, in my case the problem is confined to OTA broadcasts from our local CBS affiliate. (KLFY in Lafayette, La.). I have not watched very many shows from other stations but the few I have watched, seemed ok. I know for sure that I didn't have any problems from the few HD programs I recorded from the satellite. (Weeds did not have any drop outs and it was recorded Sunday evening after the upgrade. I watched some shows off the same CBS channel that were recorded before the update and no drop-outs. Yesterday morning, I set the new and improved audio controls to not record in DD and not to output in DD. I watched at least one show that was recorded from the CBS affiliate last night ( after resetting the audio controls)(NCIS) and it seemed to be working ok for more than half the show but during the second half, I had at least two(2) 5-10 second drop outs. I noticed last night that just as the sound was coming back, the picture would break up for appox 1 sec as the sound returned to normal. I think others have reported this same thing. I'm not sure if it happed every time. I don't think the optical output is the problem. I get the same thing using HDMI directly connected to TV. I guess these are both digital connections so it might make a difference to use analog connections. Anybody having the problem using analog AUDIO connections to TV? I agree with one of the posters above that the best way to get this fixed is to keep calling D*. I think it will help if we can be as specific as possible. Assuming the person on the other end is actually listening. Whenever I call, I am continually amazed at how obvious it is that they are only giving my complaints their limited attention. I guess I would probably do the same if I was doing that job but it is still irritating.


----------



## Todd

Do the audio dropouts also happen on recordings done prior to the 6.3 upgrade?


----------



## Robdec

I dont understand how so many people can have the Audio issue and Directv wont do anything about it. Its crazy. From what I read here it look like close to 100% of people with optical cables are having the issue. Is that correct.


----------



## toms111la

Todd said:


> Do the audio dropouts also happen on recordings done prior to the 6.3 upgrade?


I can't speak for everyone but the recordings I did prior to the upgrade from the same OTA station that is giving me the problem, do not have any problems when played back after the upgrade.


----------



## toms111la

Robdec said:


> I dont understand how so many people can have the Audio issue and Directv wont do anything about it. Its crazy. From what I read here it look like close to 100% of people with optical cables are having the issue. Is that correct.


I don't think the problem is limited to those using the optic cable. I have the problem whether I use the optic cable or not.


----------



## JoeSchueller

toms111la said:


> I don't think the problem is limited to those using the optic cable. I have the problem whether I use the optic cable or not.


When you switch to analog audio (or HDMI) and stop using the optical connection, do you also turn off DD recording/playback? Does that have any effect?


----------



## toms111la

JoeSchueller said:


> When you switch to analog audio (or HDMI) and stop using the optical connection, do you also turn off DD recording/playback? Does that have any effect?


Turning off DD Recording/Playback did not eliminate audio drop offs for me.


----------



## cheer

iwantmyhdmitv said:


> You, collectively, have shown there is an issue with the upgrade to 6.3x in that it can cause audio dropouts in some boxes. There is no reason to discuss this further. I recommend that you spend your time calling Directv customer support and report your problem, rather than trying to further troubleshoot the issue.
> 
> Directv will fix this audio dropout problem in a subsequent release of software.
> 
> It will take several more days or weeks, or even months, but they will fix this issue for those of you that are experiencing it. They have to, or there is no product for sale folks and you will leave for greener pastures!
> 
> It will seem like an eternity, because forums work in minutes and hours and software bug fixes work in days/weeks/months.
> 
> It's really as simple as that.
> 
> If your're still on 3.1, and you can't tolerate this problem, unplug your phone line now.


What a bunch of nonsense.

First of all, we haven't collectively demonstrated anything, except that there are many different problems with different characteristics.

Calling DirecTV is pointless, because they will blame cables/receivers/etc. until and unless we can demonstrate that it truly is due to a software problem.

Hint: if you're having the problem on ONE OTA STATION ONLY, it's very likely not a software problem. I don't care if it worked OK before. Recent weather changes could just as easily be responsible.

Troubleshooting is the only way we can narrow the various problems down. You don't need to participate if you do not wish to.


----------



## toms111la

After experiencing my problems, and reading about others problems, it seems to me that the 6.3a upgrade inadvertently changed something about the way the H10-250 interprets the digital code coming from some of the OTA stations. I am not an expert. I think I have read or been told that the HDTV data stream includes information not directly related to the picture and sound being viewed/recorded. Does it seem logical to assume that something in the data stream from some stations is causing the H10-200 to hiccup causing the problem.

I had a strange problem about 6 months ago with one on the NBC stations in my area. If I switched to that station, the picture would go into slow motion on the H10-250 but still worked fine on a non DVR tuner. The station engineer, who was very responsive, could not find the problem for a few weeks. He finally traced the problem to a software upgrade in some of his equipment which was resolved when he restored the earlier version. The problem did not occur, according to him on any other tuner.

My point is that modern OTA HDTV tuners must have to interpret a lot of different digital data streams and I don't think that the standards are uniform. We all know the technology is evolving. Given that so many folks are having the problem, I obviously think it is up to D* to solve the problem. That being said, it may be difficult to test the software update sufficiently prior to roll-out to anticipate the problem. I have a feeling that many folks are not having the problem simply because the stations they are using don't have the offending code.
I obviously don't know this for sure but it seems to make sense to me. I would like anyone more technically savy to comment. Thanks


----------



## Sir_winealot

toms111la said:


> Turning off DD Recording/Playback did not eliminate audio drop offs for me.


So it doesn't matter what cables you're using, and/or how you're hooked up ....there are _no exceptions_ for this drop out?


----------



## jeffscott72

I have two HR10s, one has 6.3a and the other doesnt. The upgraded box is having the audio drops. It drops audio on OTA, SD, and DirecTv HD Feeds. No real pattern to it. The box with the older software doesnt drop the audio. Has anyone actually called and reported the problem. I havent called yet. I really dont like having the follow all there steps in their scripts before they actually become helpful.


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## toms111la

I have called. I didn't get a good vibe. They said no one else was having the problem!! I think it is important that everyone having the problem call. My guess is they don't take it serious unless they get a lot of calls.


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## SHOMan

Take a look at the static/pop thread. 

We hounded D* for weeks on end with no fix. We found a CSR who was willing to "walk" the problem through to engineering. I got the office of the president to have an engineer call me, who acknowledged the issue after I demonstrated it to him over the phone and pointed out the my SD tivos (that are capable of recording DD) worked fine with my audio receiver.

Result? No call back as promised by the technician. He stated any fix would have to come from the manufacturer, which is TIVO. D* did not create this update code, TIVO did.

And there lies the rub. D* is handling the problem poorly, but TIVO, the sacred cow, is responsible for the code working, or not working, properly.

According to at least one user, this update has fixed the static/pop issue that has plagued this unit since day one. OTOH, it has created the static/pop issue for those that never had it before. On top of that, the dropouts.

Too many plain vanilla problems with the update suggest that testing resources on this update project were limited in the extreme. This new problem is much bigger than the static/pop issue.

I hope they get it fixed quick. 

BTW, I am still stuck on 3.1.5, and thinking I had better unplug my phone line.


----------



## EMoMoney

Sir_whinealot said:


> So it doesn't matter what cables you're using, and/or how you're hooked up ....there are _no exceptions_ for this drop out?


Nope, it's not dropping the output, it's dropping audio during recording.


toms111la said:


> I have called. I didn't get a good vibe. They said no one else was having the problem!! I think it is important that everyone having the problem call. My guess is they don't take it serious unless they get a lot of calls.


They're going to stick to that story for a while no matter how many people call. I called the other day and spoke with a "DVR Specialist", I wasn't irate, but I was asking tough questions, and kept backing the CSR into a corner where he finally admitted to it being a known issue. But then he would keep trying to change his answer by saying this was an issue prior to 6.3 which 6.3 was supposed to fix. I explained to him over and over that I was not talking about the known HDMI issue and this problem only surfaced after the 6.3 upgrade.


SHOMan said:


> He stated any fix would have to come from the manufacturer, which is TIVO. D* did not create this update code, TIVO did.


After I finally got the CSR to admit this was a known issue, he basically told me the same thing, that This was a TiVo problem, not D*. If I wanted any further questions answered I would have to contact them.


----------



## Todd

EMoMoney said:


> After I finally got the CSR to admit this was a known issue, he basically told me the same thing, that This was a TiVo problem, not D*. If I wanted any further questions answered I would have to contact them.


But of course TiVo will not answer any questions regarding DirecTV TiVos....


----------



## DennisMileHi

Tonight, I was watching a recording of Lost which was about 45 minutes behind live. At minute 58, I lost exactly 10 seconds of audio when Jack was hanging his head after being talked to by the lady jailor. I went back and viewed it again and the audio is NOT on the recording no matter how many times I play it. So, I went upstairs to my other HD Tivo which was recording the same show. (It just got the 6.3a upgrade today on that box.) There was NO problem at the same time. So, I think the problem is some complicated issue with what else is going on inside the HR10. And, therefore, it must be software related as I NEVER had this problem before. I called D* earlier on this issue with a single time I had a problem with FOX showing House OTA. In the process of explaning that problem, they inadvertantly hung up on me. I gave up on calling them.

I am thinking seriously about other alternatives for HD broadcasts, including cable and E*, but I do love my Tivo. Otherwise, I would already be gone. Year commitments or not. I am now going to look back in this thread for the name of the advanced technology or whatever to ask for when I call D* again.

D* has to fix this. I would encourage others to call with details.


----------



## DennisMileHi

OK, so I call D* and ask for Advanced Technologies (even at 10:30 MDT they are there) and tell him about my audio dropout I just reported here. The guy said this was the first he had heard about it but would send it up the line to engineering. He told me that other people should call and report this problem and that would get them to look at it. He came across as a knowlegeable smart person.

So, all you folks on this thread should spend the time to communicate with D* Advanced Technologies about the audio dropout problem. We can ***** and moan all we want here, but we need to call and explain clearly the audio problems you have experienced after the 6.3a upgrade.

Hope this will help.


----------



## cheer

DennisMileHi said:


> OK, so I call D* and ask for Advanced Technologies (even at 10:30 MDT they are there) and tell him about my audio dropout I just reported here. The guy said this was the first he had heard about it but would send it up the line to engineering. He told me that other people should call and report this problem and that would get them to look at it. He came across as a knowlegeable smart person.
> 
> So, all you folks on this thread should spend the time to communicate with D* Advanced Technologies about the audio dropout problem. We can ***** and moan all we want here, but we need to call and explain clearly the audio problems you have experienced after the 6.3a upgrade.


Sigh.


----------



## toms111la

I made a point to watch shows last night from all 4 major networks. All are received at my location OTA.
CBS - Droupouts 2-4 per hour 8-10 sec each. Also had during Letterman show.
FOX - Droupouts had 3 during 1 hour "BONES
ABC - No drops
NBC - No drops

I know quite a few folks mentioned Fox problems during Prison Break but this was my first problem with Fox. All of my earlier problems were CBS.

Has anyone had problems with ABC or NBC? It may help if we can determine if the problem is limited to FOX and CBS. Maybe they are doing something different than ABC and NBC.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

Yep, ABC OTA last night during Lost and The Nine - my unit upgraded yesterday too, and I never had a problem with audio before then.


----------



## toms111la

scooby_doo_53 said:


> Yep, ABC OTA last night during Lost and The Nine - my unit upgraded yesterday too, and I never had a problem with audio before then.


I recorded both of those shows but have not watched yet. I will watch them tonight and see what happens. It may have more to do with what the individual locals are doing with their re-transmission equipment??? I don't get any of the 4 networks over the Satellite. Is anyone who gets the broadcast networks from D* having the problem or is this strictly an OTA problem.

I think it is important that we not confuse this audio dropout problem (post 6.3a)with other problems? The problem I am having is characterized by a continuing perfect picture but the sound suddenly drops to nothing for 5-10 sec. Most of the time, but not always, at the instant the sound comes back the picture distorts for a very brief time probably 1/2 second. I am pretty sure others have described it pretty much the same way. If you are seing something different please advise.

Just another thought. Is anyone who is hooked to their TV using nothing but RCA cables seing the problem? I don't remember the exact terminology but what I am talking about is the 3-colored RCA plugs for picture and the RED and WHITE cables for sound. I'm just wondering if this problem has something to do with the HDMI circuit malfunctioning. I know the HDMI has some sort of way of preventing illegal copying. Any of you experts have any thoughts on whether this is possible??


----------



## cheer

toms111la said:


> I think it is important that we not confuse this audio dropout problem (post 6.3a)with other problems?


That ship sailed a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## cheer

toms111la said:


> I made a point to watch shows last night from all 4 major networks. All are received at my location OTA.
> CBS - Droupouts 2-4 per hour 8-10 sec each. Also had during Letterman show.
> FOX - Droupouts had 3 during 1 hour "BONES
> ABC - No drops
> NBC - No drops
> 
> I know quite a few folks mentioned Fox problems during Prison Break but this was my first problem with Fox. All of my earlier problems were CBS.
> 
> Has anyone had problems with ABC or NBC? It may help if we can determine if the problem is limited to FOX and CBS. Maybe they are doing something different than ABC and NBC.


Utter nonsense. It is far more likely to be a reception problem if it's only happening to you on some-but-not-all OTA channels.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

toms111la said:


> I recorded both of those shows but have not watched yet. I will watch them tonight and see what happens. It may have more to do with what the individual locals are doing with their re-transmission equipment??? I don't get any of the 4 networks over the Satellite. Is anyone who gets the broadcast networks from D* having the problem or is this strictly an OTA problem.
> 
> I think it is important that we not confuse this audio dropout problem (post 6.3a)with other problems? The problem I am having is characterized by a continuing perfect picture but the sound suddenly drops to nothing for 5-10 sec. Most of the time, but not always, at the instant the sound comes back the picture distorts for a very brief time probably 1/2 second. I am pretty sure others have described it pretty much the same way. If you are seing something different please advise.
> 
> Just another thought. Is anyone who is hooked to their TV using nothing but RCA cables seing the problem? I don't remember the exact terminology but what I am talking about is the 3-colored RCA plugs for picture and the RED and WHITE cables for sound. I'm just wondering if this problem has something to do with the HDMI circuit malfunctioning. I know the HDMI has some sort of way of preventing illegal copying. Any of you experts have any thoughts on whether this is possible??


My unit upgraded just last night, right before I started to watch "Bones" on FOX OTA. I had the 8-10 second audio dropout on that show before I switched over to ABC.

Also, I did indeed see the "picture distortion" when the sound returned.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

Forgot to mention that I am using the optical audio cable, with component video. My Mitsubishi big screen is too old to have an HDMI connection.


----------



## Herb S.

FWIW experienced audio dropouts on House last night NOT RECORDED, just OTA so it would seem the problem is not the recording of the show, but signal interpretation itself. Watched a little bit of Dancing with Stars OTA no audio problems, was waiting for Yankee game. 6.3a


----------



## String

Cheezmo said:


> Here's my vote for it being a software problem. This from the kernel log during one a couple of minutes ago during the Cowboys vs. Titans game on Fox...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full.
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop -->    SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
> Oct  1 17:27:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


Thoery on why it only occurs for OTA.
Since D* sends us HD Lite, the buffer does not need to be that large. That was what was probably used for programming and testing. However, since, OTA sends us the full bandwidth of the station, the buffer required is larger, but was not taken into account during programming and testing. That is why the above stated buffer over runs occur, and cause the audio dropouts, followed by the video burp when audio and video retart.

Just a theory.


----------



## dbex

String said:


> Thoery on why it only occurs for OTA.
> Since D* sends us HD Lite, the buffer does not need to be that large. That was what was probably used for programming and testing. However, since, OTA sends us the full bandwidth of the station, the buffer required is larger, but was not taken into account during programming and testing. That is why the above stated buffer over runs occur, and cause the audio dropouts, followed by the video burp when audio and video retart.
> 
> Just a theory.


 Good Point! Maybe after the HD-lite lawsuit they'll fix it, because they will be forced to...


----------



## toms111la

cheer said:


> Utter nonsense. It is far more likely to be a reception problem if it's only happening to you on some-but-not-all OTA channels.


I really don't think it is a reception problem and your calling my post "utter nonsense" does not add anything to the discussion. I have had a lot of reception problems in the past and never has it been characterized by perfect picture and no sound. The stations in my area are strong and my current OTA antenna setup has not had any reception problems for quite some time. If you are not having the problems, great. It would be helpful if you would tell us what programs you have watched since upgrading, and how are you receiving them and how is your unit hooked up? I am not trying to start an argument. I am just hoping that through this board, we might be able to help define and/or isolate the problem.


----------



## bwaldron

cheer said:


> Utter nonsense. It is far more likely to be a reception problem if it's only happening to you on some-but-not-all OTA channels.


Probably. But could it also be a case of different bitrates on various OTA HD channels (i.e., # and type of subchannels in a given locality), and higher bitrate (larger) files causing the dropouts? No a network issue per se, but I can at least conceive of getting problems with some channels and not others.


----------



## DaveWhittle

cheer said:


> Utter nonsense. It is far more likely to be a reception problem if it's only happening to you on some-but-not-all OTA channels.


I would argue this response ^^^ is bigger nonsense.

I'm getting 90% + signal strength on the channels that get the occasional 5 to 10 second audio drop-out followed by the picture glitching once the audio comes back in, as others reported. I have only observed this flaw after the 6.3a upgrade.


----------



## josejrp

Previously, I had only had the "10 second audio drop with small video blip at the very end" symptom on Fox programs, but yesterday I had it while in a commercial break during Lost on ABC (Atlanta WSB). Just letting the group know...


----------



## pdawg17

Has only occurred for me while watching FOX...I've had 15-20 dropouts total and they have all been FOX shows...


----------



## pdawg17

josejrp said:


> Previously, I had only had the "10 second audio drop with small video blip at the very end" symptom on Fox programs, but yesterday I had it while in a commercial break during Lost on ABC (Atlanta WSB). Just letting the group know...


Commercials? What are those?


----------



## gquiring

I am still seeing lots of audio dropouts and I do *not* have 6.3. I don't think it is just related to OTA channels as my worst channel right now is HBO HD. I watched Dexter the other day on SHO HD and it had lots of issues. I was getting fed up last night with ABC (86) with the drop outs, it kills the story with plots like Lost.


----------



## LoopinFool

cheer said:


> Utter nonsense. It is far more likely to be a reception problem if it's only happening to you on some-but-not-all OTA channels.


Please, give it a rest. You're welcome to believe it or not, but it's clear that this is a software/driver problem with the 6.3 distribution and SOME OTA broadcasts. This is a big, big problem for some people and you're not helping one bit. As far as I know, there's no way to downgrade the system software back to 3.1.5 without losing all your recordings (and certainly not without opening up the Tivo). That means people are stuck with unwatchable recordings and have virtually no recourse.

That it's a software issue has been all but proven by people with multiple HR10-250 receivers. People have had audio dropouts on one box (6.3a) and none on the other (3.1.5f) hooked up to the same antenna. Go ahead and argue about cabling issues, coincidental hard drive failures, and more if you like, but I won't be listening.

The ATSC bitstream has a huge variety of flavors. The video can have various bitrates and the audio can have various bitrates. I am pretty sure this is being caused by a high-bitrate Dolby Digital stream. Someone at TiVo or Broadcom made a ring buffer a little smaller. It never got tested on this exact hardware with a 320Mbit DD stream (or similar) coming through the ATSC decoder, and now we're here.

It also makes sense that it's happening mostly on Fox stations. Most Fox stations were upgraded to HD-capable equipment recently. The specs for that equipment were dictated by the Fox network. With 720p video, there's a little more bandwidth available for audio, so perhaps they chose to have a higher-quality 5.1 audio stream because they can.

Our local Fox affiliate now has a subchannel (music videos), so perhaps I wouldn't have the dropout issue with 6.3. I still won't plug the phone in until someone from here in Madison posts that they have no OTA audio dropouts since 6.3. I'm not sure I would then, either.

- LoopinFool


----------



## jeffscott72

I see the audio drop in SD recordings as well. I record OTA, Firefly on UHD, and some shows on the SD channels. I have seen drops from all three sources. More on the HD shows. As far as OTA vs DTV HD, one doesn't seem to have more drops then the other. I have another box that hasn't been upgraded yet. I haven't been using it much. I'll duplicate the recordings from the Upgraded box and see if it is better.


----------



## eddiwill

I posted this several pages back and maybe it was overlooked. I was thinking it may have some bearing, but I am not terribly knowledgeable in this stuff. If it isn't relevant, my apologies. 

I have had DD audio drops from the start, even replaced a unit because of it, only to be exactly the same on the new/refurb. Happens on OTA and HBO, etc. 

Anyway, FWIW, I was looking over a Dish forum for their Vip622, and there are a LOT of users with what looks like this exact same problem (though some flat out lose the audio altogether, not just a drop out). There is even mention of the whole "receiver lock" issue-- which my receiver also displays on each and every annoying drop. 

All seem to be using HDMI and optical cable, like most here. I wonder if their is some shared hardware component or software code that would cause this? it just seems kind of odd that a totally different provider and box would have such a similar issue.


----------



## cheer

LoopinFool said:


> Please, give it a rest. You're welcome to believe it or not, but it's clear that this is a software/driver problem with the 6.3 distribution and SOME OTA broadcasts. This is a big, big problem for some people and you're not helping one bit. As far as I know, there's no way to downgrade the system software back to 3.1.5 without losing all your recordings (and certainly not without opening up the Tivo). That means people are stuck with unwatchable recordings and have virtually no recourse.
> 
> That it's a software issue has been all but proven by people with multiple HR10-250 receivers. People have had audio dropouts on one box (6.3a) and none on the other (3.1.5f) hooked up to the same antenna. Go ahead and argue about cabling issues, coincidental hard drive failures, and more if you like, but I won't be listening.


People have also had it happen on both software versions, and on neither. Some people with 3.1.5f have the same problem. Some people with 6.3/6.3a have no problem.

So to say that it's "clear" is to ignore a sizeable chunk of the evidence we have, but that's the popular sport around here lately.

No problem -- go ahead and pursue the idea that it's Fox's "high-quality" (HAH!) DD stream. Let me know how that works out for you.


> It also makes sense that it's happening mostly on Fox stations. Most Fox stations were upgraded to HD-capable equipment recently. The specs for that equipment were dictated by the Fox network. With 720p video, there's a little more bandwidth available for audio, so perhaps they chose to have a higher-quality 5.1 audio stream because they can.


Then wouldn't almost everybody have Fox problems? And for what it's worth, I have a demuxed AC3 stream from a Fox OTA recording, and its bitrate is virtually identical to one from NBC and one from HDNet.

EDIT: and everyone loves to quote my "utter nonsense" remark out of context, so let's be clear: looking at this from an individual network basis (as opposed to an affiliate basis, or some other commonality) is a nonsense suggestion *unless* everyone is universally having a problem with one network and not others. Since that is clearly not the case, it's a waste of time to pursue. You don't troubleshoot problems by guessing what the solution might be, working up an explanation for why the solution makes sense, and ignoring evidence to the contrary. No matter how "clear" it all seems.


----------



## humbland

Add us to the post 6.3 audio drop out list.
I called dtv and asked for "advanced tech ". They are aware of the problem and "searching the code". They said to toggle off Dolby Digital and on PCM (for the time being). 
They said a solution would be coming, but not for at least 2 weeks.
If anyone gets a further update, please post here.
Thanks,
E.


----------



## toms111la

humbland said:


> Add us to the post 6.3 audio drop out list.
> I called dtv and asked for "advanced tech ". They are aware of the problem and "searching the code". They said to toggle off Dolby Digital and on PCM (for the time being).
> They said a solution would be coming, but not for at least 2 weeks.
> If anyone gets a further update, please post here.
> Thanks,
> E.


TO me, that sounds like good news. I did change my setting as recommended. I am still getting the drops but, although I can't be sure, it seems to have reduced the number of drops. I'm not sure if that is even logical based on the excelent analysis of those savvy enough to post the log information above. It may be my imagination!


----------



## Rcam10

I got a HR10 that upgraded sometime Thursday apparently. I watched about 2 hours on it last night, one OTA and Lost from Directv DNS ABC. I was getting audio dropouts with 3.1 and last night I still had them on both shows. 

It appeared to be about the same amount, best I could tell so far, but maybe a little more than usual. I did have a several picture breakup's for a second on both shows, something I normally don't have. But I haven't got the 10 second audio lost yet I hear some talk about. I hope I don't get that. 

The dropouts I get got worse about 2-3 weeks ago. I haven't watch Fox yet, but I always get them on Prison Break, Directv HD channel 88. 

I use optical out going to a Yamaha receiver.


----------



## pkscout

I seem to be having the reverse happening, at least initially. I had audio drop outs all the time with 3.x (including some video drop outs even though signal strength is always above 95%). In the three or so days since the 6.3a (I never got 6.3.0) upgrade I haven't had any audio drop outs at all.

Go figure.


----------



## fasTLane

Hey Durham. Area has been in the news a lot today. Hope you're upwind.


----------



## LoopinFool

cheer said:


> People have also had it happen on both software versions, and on neither. Some people with 3.1.5f have the same problem. Some people with 6.3/6.3a have no problem.
> 
> So to say that it's "clear" is to ignore a sizeable chunk of the evidence we have, but that's the popular sport around here lately.
> 
> No problem -- go ahead and pursue the idea that it's Fox's "high-quality" (HAH!) DD stream. Let me know how that works out for you.


I don't like to get into online pissing matches, so I'll just express myself in a way you'll understand...

Sigh.

Oh, and I'm sincerely happy for you that you aren't experiencing these problems.


----------



## phox_mulder

Got the update Wednesday morning, didn't do the reboot till late Wednesday night.
Last night I watched 2 shows recorded before the upate, they were fine, no dropouts.
I also watched 1 show recorded after the update, it too was fine, no dropouts.

To take HDMI out of the equation, I watched 1 of the first 2 via component to the TV, toslink to the 5.1 receiver, I watched the other one via HDMI to the TV, Toslink to the 5.1 receiver.
I watched the newest recording via HDMI to the TV, Toslink to the 5.1 receiver.

All three shows were HD OTA recordings.

Some have said it takes some time for the dropouts to manifest themselves though.


phox


----------



## EMoMoney

humbland said:


> Add us to the post 6.3 audio drop out list.
> I called dtv and asked for "advanced tech ". They are aware of the problem and "searching the code". They said to toggle off Dolby Digital and on PCM (for the time being).
> They said a solution would be coming, but not for at least 2 weeks.
> If anyone gets a further update, please post here.
> Thanks,
> E.


This is not a viable option as the droputs occur in the recording process, it has nothing to do with what type of output is selected. If anything, selecting not to record in DD would be a more vialble solution, but many of us have tried that and the dropouts still occur.

Also, I have a hard time believing the CSR you spoke with since most people who are calling are being told they are the first to report this problem.


----------



## JohnDG

EMoMoney said:


> This is not a viable option as the droputs occur in the recording process, it has nothing to do with what type of output is selected. If anything, selecting not to record in DD would be a more vialble solution, but many of us have tried that and the dropouts still occur.


Actually, I was looking for this to be noted in the thread, but did not catch it.

To confirm:

1) Upgraded to 6.3a
2) Changed the setting to not record DD
3) Recorded a program
4) Experienced the "10-20 second no sound dropout" problem during playback?

and, if so...
a) OTA only?
b) Also DTV HD Network (ch 80-89)?

jdg


----------



## cheer

LoopinFool said:


> I don't like to get into online pissing matches, so I'll just express myself in a way you'll understand...
> 
> Sigh.


Whatever. I could care less whether you pay attention to the evidence or not. It's your loss.


> Oh, and I'm sincerely happy for you that you aren't experiencing these problems.


Where did I say that?


----------



## EMoMoney

JohnDG said:


> Actually, I was looking for this to be noted in the thread, but did not catch it.
> 
> To confirm:
> 
> 1) Upgraded to 6.3a
> 2) Changed the setting to not record DD
> 3) Recorded a program
> 4) Experienced the "10-20 second no sound dropout" problem during playback?
> 
> and, if so...
> a) OTA only?
> b) Also DTV HD Network (ch 80-89)?
> 
> jdg


I'm too lazy to go back through and read the entire post myself. I'll set mine up to not record in DD and record something and test it. I don't record much HD from the Sat, but when I first noticed this, I noticed it watching live TV as well, not just recorded, and I thought I heard it on ESPN HD, as I was watching College Football.


----------



## pdawg17

EMoMoney said:


> I'm too lazy to go back through and read the entire post myself. I'll set mine up to not record in DD and record something and test it. I don't record much HD from the Sat, but when I first noticed this, I noticed it watching live TV as well, not just recorded, and I thought I heard it on ESPN HD, as I was watching College Football.


I had the dropout most recently when watching the Yanks-Tigers game yesterday...I was watching it live...


----------



## LoopinFool

cheer said:


> Whatever. I could care less whether you pay attention to the evidence or not. It's your loss.


Ok, you drew me in. Well done.

I have seen no posts here indicating that someone had RECORDED audio dropouts solely on OTA broadcasts with the 3.1.5f software. All the posts I've seen show occasional PLAYBACK dropouts on a multitude of sources, or lost signal (pixellated video, too) mostly with the satellite feeds.

If there's evidence here to show that there's not a software glitch in 6.3 causing recorded audio dropouts on _some_ OTA broadcasts (mostly Fox stations), please point me to it.

I'm just trying to help narrow down the cause so it might get fixed in a 6.3b release or whatever. My guesses as to the actual cause (apparently I wasn't clear enough that they're guesses) are entirely based on evidence posted here.

Even the same network has wildly varying digital streams coming out of the local stations. I don't think we'll ever have enough information to _properly_ troubleshoot the problem. Any guesses we make have to be wilder than we'd like. But isolating the conditions under which the problem occurs can only help DirecTV/TiVo get the thing fixed. I belive it needs fixing, based on the evidence posted here.



> Where did I say that?


You didn't. From the tone of your posts and telling multiple people all over the country that it's surely reception problems got me to Ass_U_Me you weren't experiencing the dropouts. I apologize for the unfounded statement.

- LoopinFool


----------



## rcbray

Just noticed where Earl posted on dbstalk that D*/Tivo are aware of the issues with 6.3 and are working on them.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=679357&postcount=329


----------



## jasonjmp

Great. Based on the recommendations and urging of this forum. I called D* today and they said they are aware of the issue and working on it..whew! 

For what its worth, I asked if she she had heard of the problem, and her response was "oh certainly" and I also asked the poor woman if she thought it was a priority to fix it, she said that they rarely have problems like this with receivers, so she thought it was a top priority. 

She said to make sure it stays plugged in to the phone line and they will update it as soon as it is ready. I let her go at that.


----------



## EMoMoney

humbland said:


> Add us to the post 6.3 audio drop out list.
> I called dtv and asked for "advanced tech ". They are aware of the problem and "searching the code". They said to toggle off Dolby Digital and on PCM (for the time being).
> They said a solution would be coming, but not for at least 2 weeks.
> If anyone gets a further update, please post here.
> Thanks,
> E.


I just confirmed this not a valid workaround at all. I experienced the dropouts with the following audio settings.
record DD, output DD
record DD, output PCM
record standard, output PCM
record standard, output DD


----------



## TonyD79

Just got my first dropout during the Yankees/Tigers game. Hours of Tv without a dropout. Guess the earlier stuff didn't have enough action for buffer overruns.


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## EMoMoney

Wow! 5 audio dropouts in the first 5 minutes of the Dodgers Mets game. What's Ditectv's new slogan? Good TV, Better TV, DirecTV.


----------



## alltimesaresoon

Everybody. You should hit them where it hurts "some". I called and complained about missing some of the tigers yankees due to MULTIPLE dropouts during the game. I was PO'ed. After getting no where at all with the CSR and technical service guys, I transferred over to account or customer retention and told them I would not pay full price when i don't get service and no updates at all on a "fix". They agreed to take $10 a month off my bill for 6 mos, and said that it should be fixed before the 6 mos period. Of course, they are just making up the "fix" part, and mentioned that this is Tivo's problem, not theirs. They sure aren't working together anymore very well.

But I think multiple people should get them to drop the price of your package for 6 months so they would have more motivation to get it fixed.


----------



## Robdec

Drop outs like crazy during the Mets game. What a bunch of crap. I dint pay $400 for this box and $85 a month in service to have audio drop outs and reboots


----------



## HDTivo4prez

:down: 
I guess I didn't want to believe this thread was real but I got my 6.3a update this past Wednesday morning. I was an early adopter of HDTivo, in fact, I was on the original pre-order list from Value Electronics back in April 2004. 

Yes, it is true!!! I have started to see the 5-10 second drop outs. I also noticed last night that just as the sound was coming back, the picture would break up for appox 1 sec as the sound returned to normal (this has been reported). At this point, I have only noticed them on my local FOX affiliate and ESPN-HD channels. 

This audio dropout is something I had never seen before on my HDTivo until the recent software update. This is very annonying and DirectTV needs to address it with an update. I will place my complaint phone call tomorrow. I hope I don't see this problem tomorrow on the Sunday Ticket games.


----------



## hybucket

I've had 6.3a for over a week and no problems...til last night. I was playing back MEN IN TREES recorded Fri night off OTA ABC-Boston, and...drop out. 8-10 seconds worth, with a slight flash in the pic before sound restored. Will call on Monday (no point dealing with weekend CSRs). This is not acceptable for the price being paid. I notice on this forum that several are getting discounts for the problems. Everyone with the problems should be getting this, and the loss of revenue might convince them to get this fix QUICKLY!


----------



## Ramsrule

I've got them too since the upgrade...... the now standard 8-10 second audio drop with slight video jumble upon audio resuming.

Happens on OTA and D* channels...... live or recorded. Ugh!

I guess it's time to move over to the new D* MPEG 4 DVR? I'll be a sad day when I have to box up my Tivo's and sell them on ebay.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

I'm still on 3.1.5f. The Dodgers Mets game had zero dropouts off San Francisco OTA. 

One suggestion I have for those of you waiting for the fix is to buy a copy of Instant Cake and retro your box back and then unplug the phone. 

Anyone out there know why this wouldn't be a good interim solution? 

BTW, you will have good menu speed unless you load up tons of season passes.


----------



## hybucket

For what we pay for service and for the box, it's ridiculous for us to even think about fixing the problem ourselves. D* should be given a reasonable amount of time to remedy the situation - if, after that time, it is not resolved completely, then we should be allowed to dissolve whatever "contract" we have with them for service so we can go to the series 3, which at least is supported by the TiVO company. I am very leary that because of D*'s relationship with TiVO, the problem might not go away as fast as we'd like. Although I am encouraged some small amount by the fact the CSRs are now apparantly at least acknowledging that a problem exists.


----------



## Markman07

My first OTA choke of today's game (lions and vikings). 
--------------------
Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full. 
Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN 
Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


----------



## Rcam10

I finally had one of those 10 sec dropouts out since getting the update on Thursday. I had unplugged the phone for awhile but decided to try it anyway. So, on a OTA CW channel at the first of Smallville, it did the 10 sec thing. 

I had recorded it also on Directv's SD local CW channel and it didn't dropout there. I've never had that happen before so of course its because of 6.3a. I've always got some short dropouts almost everywhere, but not this 10 second gap.


----------



## RichsSat

I have two audio problems since the upgrade.

1. the 10 second dropout that everyone here is talking about.

2. I have the NBC West Hd feed and everything that is being sent in 5.1 is messed up. Tivo 
is only recording the rear audio channels and it is transposing them to the L&R front speakers. As a result, no dialog is recorded. Every episode of the Law and Order series are messed up this way..... The problem only manifests itself on the NBC feed, all my OTA and HD satellite recording are fine..

Dunno if this is a feed issue or what but it is frustrating. Going to fiddle with my OTA setup to try to get NBC OTA since no one seems to have an answer for me....


----------



## cdelena

I have also had three lock-ups since 6.3, one today with 6.3a.. and ongoing audio drop-outs. No problems for a year prior to 6.3 so this release has not served me well.


----------



## fertree

My audio dropouts, which seem to have gotten worse in the last couple of weeks, have nothing to do with 6.3, because I haven't received it yet. (Am I the only one?) NCIS is the worst. It is always recorded and watched delayed and the dropouts disappear when I turn off Dolby Digital, even though it was recorded in DD.


----------



## gregftlaud

well...i thought i had a temporary fix for the audio dropout issue until dtv comes out with a software fix. i was using the optical cable hooked up to my audio receiver. so i unpluggeg it thought i'd try using rca red/white audio jacks input into my receiver. i have only been getting the audio dropouts since the software upgrade on one of my ota channels. anyway, i was watching the fox ota...dallas/eagles game today and got sick of the dropout and thought i'd try this cable change. two hours after i started using the rca audio jacks instead of the optical cable there were no dropouts. that had been the longest i had gone since the upgrade. but....just as i was getting in here to post my possible temporary fix.....a dropout occurred. however it only lasted 2-3 seconds....and not the 5-10 seconds that was happening using the optical cable.


----------



## EMoMoney

gregftlaud said:


> well...i thought i had a temporary fix for the audio dropout issue until dtv comes out with a software fix. i was using the optical cable hooked up to my audio receiver. so i unpluggeg it thought i'd try using rca red/white audio jacks input into my receiver. i have only been getting the audio dropouts since the software upgrade on one of my ota channels. anyway, i was watching the fox ota...dallas/eagles game today and got sick of the dropout and thought i'd try this cable change. two hours after i started using the rca audio jacks instead of the optical cable there were no dropouts. that had been the longest i had gone since the upgrade. but....just as i was getting in here to post my possible temporary fix.....a dropout occurred. however it only lasted 2-3 seconds....and not the 5-10 seconds that was happening using the optical cable.


Yep, the dropouts are in the recording/input, not the output.


----------



## kroddy

Welll... just to throw a little confusions to the mix: I experienced some audio dropouts earlier this evening watching Fox 29-1 HD OTA in Philadelphia... after a few audio dropouts the video froze, went blank, and then I saw "powering up... please wait"... a first ever spontaneous reboot for my 27-month old HR10-250 with it's six week old 750GB Seagate drive...

Only thing that makes me different to all of the above is that *I DON'T HAVE 6.3 yet*... I'm still on 3.15f... maybe we need to stop blaming the software upgrade and start asking what Fox have changed recently that may be contributing to this.


----------



## Markman07

I counted today from Noon until 6:30 time (all NFL on OTA)...searching through the kernal log file.

27 cases of audio drops....if you can go by where the kernel log says 

"Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full"


----------



## mgamon

RichsSat -

I've had same problem with Law & Order, recorded on OTA channel 4-1 in Los Angeles. This has happened the last 2 weeks on that show & channel. With full screen HD picture, the dialog center channel is lost. Then at some point picture changes from full screen HD to smaller boxed in version, with dialog restored but no DD 5.1. This last Friday's version (10/6), the picture and sound were fixed about 1/4 the way thru, & OK till the end.

Seems to me like it's someone screwing up at the local station - not setting switches right or something. 

I've also had various 10 sec or so audio dropouts with both 3.1.f & 6.3a software. Don't think the audio dropouts are related to 6.3 release, but who knows.

Max


----------



## EMoMoney

kroddy said:


> Only thing that makes me different to all of the above is that *I DON'T HAVE 6.3 yet*... I'm still on 3.15f... maybe we need to stop blaming the software upgrade and start asking what Fox have changed recently that may be contributing to this.


I never experienced audio dropouts like i am now before my HR10 was updated. So I DO blame the software. Your recent experience does not at all sound like what most are describing. My HR10 has never rebooted immediately after one of the audio dropouts. And if you look through all the posts, it's not just FOX, yes, it happens on FOX more than other channels, but I've experienced it on ABC, ESPNHD and CBS.


----------



## gregftlaud

i'm only experiencing the audio dropouts on ota fox here in ft lauderdale miami. the other ota channels work just fine. is anyone else here experiencing just problems with fox or are the other networks having the same problems?


----------



## Seminole

gregftlaud said:


> i'm only experiencing the audio dropouts on ota fox here in ft lauderdale miami. the other ota channels work just fine. is anyone else here experiencing just problems with fox or are the other networks having the same problems?


Same thing here in Boston with Fox trying to watch the game yesterday was nery annoying had to switch to Fox out of NY


----------



## toms111la

ABC & NBC seem fine. Fox & CBS, lots of drops. All post 6.3a


----------



## hybucket

Well, since I and several others are getting them on other-than-Fox stations, so, duh, doesn't seem like a FOX problem.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

kroddy said:


> Welll... just to throw a little confusions to the mix: I experienced some audio dropouts earlier this evening watching Fox 29-1 HD OTA in Philadelphia... after a few audio dropouts the video froze, went blank, and then I saw "powering up... please wait"... a first ever spontaneous reboot for my 27-month old HR10-250 with it's six week old 750GB Seagate drive...
> 
> Only thing that makes me different to all of the above is that *I DON'T HAVE 6.3 yet*... I'm still on 3.15f... maybe we need to stop blaming the software upgrade and start asking what Fox have changed recently that may be contributing to this.


It's just not on FOX (although I have seen it there the most). I had dropouts on ABC OTA watching "Lost" and "The Nine" last week.


----------



## bradfjoh

Experienced my first audio dropout last night during Desperate Housewives... it was for about 10 minutes though. Went to a commercial break, came back and everything was fine. 

I'm in PHX and still have 3.1.5f


----------



## String

Of the big 4 networks, do all of them broadcast in 5.1 DD?


----------



## pmturcotte

6.3a/10250 here. Seems to only be happening on the OTA feeds and on multiple networks. Noticed it during Lost, Nine and NFL games yesterday.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

String said:


> Of the big 4 networks, do all of them broadcast in 5.1 DD?


I'd say yes, although for some reason my NBC station always seems to not broadcast in 5.1. When you watch Sunday night football, they say at the beginning it's available in 5.1, but here in Denver, I think I have only seen the first game of the year in 5.1. Everything else for me records in 5.1 (CBS, FOX, ABC)


----------



## pkscout

kroddy said:


> Welll... just to throw a little confusions to the mix: I experienced some audio dropouts earlier this evening watching Fox 29-1 HD OTA in Philadelphia... after a few audio dropouts the video froze, went blank, and then I saw "powering up... please wait"... a first ever spontaneous reboot for my 27-month old HR10-250 with it's six week old 750GB Seagate drive...


If you're getting a reboot, I think that's likely to be a different problem (often it's bad sectors on the HD). Having had 6.3 for a few days now, I am inclined to think the audio drops out I and others saw with 3.x are different that what I've seen now (only twice) with 6.3. They "look" similar when you try and describe them here with only text, but now that I've seen them they are definitely (in my mind) different problems with similar symptoms.

The trade off for me is that the audio hickup problems I had with 3.x are gone, and the 6.3 audio hickup is, for me, less prevalent. I do hope DirecTV fixes this, but the increased performance and folders have mellowed me a bit.


----------



## Mike Lang

I have two HR10-250's in the same room. One has been on 6.3 for a week. The other hasn't been updated yet. I never had audio dropouts on either machine before. Since the update I'm getting them a lot on the 6.3 box and still none on the other. I can be tuned to the same channel on each box and only the 6.3 box will go silent. Neither box has been hacked in any way.


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## TonyD79

Only drop outs I've gotten so far were the Yankees/Tigers game (and most of my TiVoing HD is OTA). However, I watched the last couple of baseball games with my TV tuner OTA since my buffers were busy (and I am testing a new antenna on the TV) so I don't know if there would have been others.


----------



## Cheezmo

Actually there appears to me to be a second issue, again related to audio, that does lead to reboots. For a couple of minutes before the reboot, the log fills with...



Code:


Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel: AUDIO/MESSAGE BUFFER OVERRUN! 
Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel:  
Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel: /tvbin/dssappAV: ### ERROR: CwpSecondaryThread: Packet error on vchan 1 (overflow=1, bytesAvailable=3772) 
Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel: /tvbin/dssappAV: ### ERROR: CwpSecondaryThread: Packet error on vchan 1 (overflow=0, bytesAvailable=24) 
Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel: /tvbin/dssappAV: ### ERROR: CwpPrimaryThread: Packet error on vchan 1 (overflow=0, bytesAvailable=32) 
Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel: /tvbin/dssappAV: ### ERROR: CwpSecondaryThread: Packet error on vchan 1 (overflow=0, bytesAvailable=100) 
Oct  8 23:00:54 (none) kernel: /tvbin/dssappAV: ### ERROR: CwpPrimaryThread: Packet error on vchan 1 (overflow=0, bytesAvaila

As in hundreds of lines of this stuff. I see this on a different channel than the one that typically has the dropouts, and it occurs much less frequently, but every couple of days on my Tivo that often records from the affected channel.



pkscout said:


> If you're getting a reboot, I think that's likely to be a different problem (often it's bad sectors on the HD). Having had 6.3 for a few days now, I am inclined to think the audio drops out I and others saw with 3.x are different that what I've seen now (only twice) with 6.3. They "look" similar when you try and describe them here with only text, but now that I've seen them they are definitely (in my mind) different problems with similar symptoms.
> 
> The trade off for me is that the audio hickup problems I had with 3.x are gone, and the 6.3 audio hickup is, for me, less prevalent. I do hope DirecTV fixes this, but the increased performance and folders have mellowed me a bit.


----------



## mica

Add me to the list. 

My box upgraded on its own sometime over the past 7-10 days (I was too busy to notice when). 

Upon viewing, I noticed several instances of this problem while watching recordings of both college and pro football games on ABC and Fox (both OTA), and when I sat down with my wife last night to catch up on some programs, there were 8-10 second drops all over the place on CSI-LV, Cold Case, and Lost. Annoying! Im not sure if ESPNHD was impacted  Ill have to keep an eye (ear?) out for that. 

But I will call D* and let them know about it. 

Late


----------



## String

scooby_doo_53 said:


> I'd say yes, although for some reason my NBC station always seems to not broadcast in 5.1. When you watch Sunday night football, they say at the beginning it's available in 5.1, but here in Denver, I think I have only seen the first game of the year in 5.1. Everything else for me records in 5.1 (CBS, FOX, ABC)


My point was that if there are overrun issues, and my theory on why it is only OTA is correct, (that HDLite has less data so we do not see over runs) then perhaps it will only show on networks that broadcast full Audio.


----------



## gtadell

I was upgraded sometime in the last 7 days or so. I have since noticed the approximate 10 second audio dropouts on OTA HD programming. I can't rule out satellite programming because I just haven't recorded that much lately in HD off the dish. 
Just like others have reported, there is about a 10 second audio loss followed by a slight video blip and then everything is normal. I would also guess that it tends to happen near the beginning of a program.

:down:


----------



## Larry Hutchinson

Why is everybody blaiming DirecTV?

This is a TiVo software problem -- all DirecTV did was allow 6.3 to go out.


----------



## toms111la

Larry Hutchinson said:


> Why is everybody blaiming DirecTV?
> 
> This is a TiVo software problem -- all DirecTV did was allow 6.3 to go out.


WhY? Because every month I send DirecTV at least $100.. I have never paid a dime to TIVO.


----------



## vdubuclet

alltimesaresoon said:


> They agreed to take $10 a month off my bill for 6 mos, and said that it should be fixed before the 6 mos period.
> But I think multiple people should get them to drop the price of your package for 6 months so they would have more motivation to get it fixed.


 I think this is a great idea, and was wondering if anybody else had any success with this before I called.


----------



## hybucket

I frankly don't care WHO fixes it...but fix it!
Since D* is the one who gets my big bucks, they're the ones I'll put the responsibility on. After a decent amount of time, everyone who continues to have this problem should call and threaten to bail. They aren't about to allow that to happen, and they'll get together with that nasty TiVO gang and solve this thing.


----------



## bwaldron

Larry Hutchinson said:


> Why is everybody blaiming DirecTV?
> 
> This is a TiVo software problem -- all DirecTV did was allow 6.3 to go out.


I consider them _jointly_ responsible for development, testing and distribution of a reasonably bug-free update (no software is ever perfect).

While not everyone is having problems, the number of folks here reporting them makes it appear that the update wasn't tested widely enough.


----------



## SHOMan

bwaldron said:


> I consider them _jointly_ responsible for development, testing and distribution of a reasonably bug-free update (no software is ever perfect).
> 
> While not everyone is having problems, the number of folks here reporting them makes it appear that the update wasn't tested widely enough.


I think they are in deep denial with respect to the number of folks using OTA for recording and never really tested it they way they should have.


----------



## pkscout

SHOMan said:


> I think they are in deep denial with respect to the number of folks using OTA for recording and never really tested it they way they should have.


Given that DirecTV didn't think it would be a big deal to ship the new H20 with the OTA port *disabled*, this is quoted for truth.

So, I'd like to be the first to welcome everyone to the 6.3a beta test group.


----------



## Ivan1670

Are the audio drop outs just happening on the OTA programs, or are they happening on the sat signal also?


----------



## EMoMoney

Ivan1670 said:


> Are the audio drop outs just happening on the OTA programs, or are they happening on the sat signal also?


Both


----------



## hybucket

NBC's "Heroes" tonight was full of glitches, some caused by the network, and drop-outs caused by...well, you know. NBC couldn't decide whether to broadcast the program in HD or SD, and they kept switching back and forth. One can only hope everyone can get all these problems straightened out by 2009, when they shut off the analog streams. I can just imagine neophytes dealaing with all this.


----------



## Cheezmo

I've only watched the first 30 minutes of tonights Heroes, but it was flawless here in Dallas. Probably an affiliate issue (unless of course all the problems started after the half-way point).


----------



## Juppers

Heroes was fine here except the audio was tinny.


----------



## DmgInc

Argh.

Put me on the list for this annoying issue as well, and after spending my weekend trying to get my signal > 92 for my OTA channels (even though I knew it wouldn't matter...) then it dawned on me that I started getting these dropouts after the 6.3 update about 3 weeks ago. 

99% of my HD recordings are OTA and it seems to happen more often than not on my FOX station, usually about 4-5 times per hour show, and only about 1 time per hour show on the rest of my OTA channels. 

I guess I will try the "fix" of using PCM output.


----------



## EMoMoney

DmgInc said:


> I guess I will try the "fix" of using PCM output.


It does't work. The dropouts are in the recording, not the output.


EMoMoney said:


> I just confirmed this not a valid workaround at all. I experienced the dropouts with the following audio settings.
> record DD, output DD
> record DD, output PCM
> record standard, output PCM
> record standard, output DD


----------



## Lee L

pkscout said:


> Given that DirecTV didn't think it would be a big deal to ship the new H20 with the OTA port *disabled*, this is quoted for truth.
> 
> So, I'd like to be the first to welcome everyone to the 6.3a beta test group.


And the saddest thing is that this has been kicking around for so so long. Most peopel thought it was dead, then they revived it. Then it was delayed again at the last minute all because they wanted to make "really sure" there were no bugs in the code. Man, I sure hate to see what it looked like before the last minute delay a few months back.

Dish network started bring development in house and they had all the same issues with SW and still do AFAIK. There is always a release coming real soon now that will fix whatever issues are the problem, of course, it always brings new issues right along with it.


----------



## nasafella

> And the saddest thing is that this has been kicking around for so so long.


Also sad (and poor customer relations) is D*'s silence about the problems.

If indeed they are working on a fix, how hard would it be to post a note on their website, or better yet send a message to the HR10 that they know about the issue and a software fix is on the way?

Seems like that would even help them out, by reducing the number of calls to their CSR's.

They have no problem sending out constant advertisements to buy more service, or just the stupid "we're so great, you're so lucky to have us" BS.

Or my absolute least favorite slogan of all time: "Somebody up there loves you.... DirecTV."

Buh.


----------



## LlamaLarry

They may very well have an update in progress, but TiVo would be on the hook to develop it and may not have a schedule yet. It would also be prudent for DirecTV to beta test it a LOT wider than they did with 6.3 before opening the gates. Releasing 2-3 more 6.3x drops to fix things one at a time costs a whole lot more, and not just in development/QA time, but consumer patience.

If they posted a message that they were working on it we'd just have a bunch more threads (and PMs to Earl) whining about how long it is taking, who gets it first, etc. So pretty much just like right now.


----------



## mhn2

I had constant audio dropouts on Sunday during the Cowboys / Eagles game. It was the worst I have had it since the 6.3 upgrade. :down:


----------



## garbec

I also had numerous dropouts on Cowboys/Eagles (OTA) on Sunday, and I was able to rewind and repeat them. However I have not been upgraded to 6.3 yet. I am still at 3.1.Xf.


----------



## PJO1966

garbec said:


> I also had numerous dropouts on Cowboys/Eagles (OTA) on Sunday, and I was able to rewind and repeat them. However I have not been upgraded to 6.3 yet. I am still at 3.1.Xf.


That's a separate issue. The 6.3a dropouts are 10-30 seconds long and can not be fixed by hitting the instant replay button. They are recorded in.


----------



## annenoe

Juppers said:


> Heroes was fine here except the audio was tinny.


Watched it OTA in SF Bay Area and audio was bad for me as well - and I'm still on 3.1 (I've unplugged my box).


----------



## Budget_HT

This is starting to sound a bit like the software developers' attempt to fix audio glitches in 3.1 that caused audio playback dropouts actually resulted in a bigger problem in 6.3 of much longer audio recording dropouts.

If so, this might make sense of folks comparing 3.1 audio issues with 6.3 issues on the same programs. It seems like the 3.1 issues (as I have experienced them, at least) are 1 second or less of audio dropout on playback, with a rewind/replay bringing back the missing audio. The reported 6.3 audio dropouts may be triggered by the same data condition, but the software reaction differs.

BTW, I have one HD TiVo on 6.3 and the other (now unplugged from phone line) still on 3.1. I have not seen/heard any audio dropouts on the 6.3 unit (upgraded 10 days ago), but I don't watch that one as often.

My other observation here is that MOST reports of 6.3 audio dropouts occur on FOX, ABC and ESPNHD--all of which broadcast in 720p. Perhaps the scattered reports of 1080i stations with audio dropouts are different, but just as annoying to the viewer/listener.


----------



## Markman07

I have them on OTA FOX by far the worse. Last night watching the Monday night game I don't think I had any or if I did very very few. Guess I could check the Kernel log for the time frame.


----------



## generalpatton71

Markman07 said:


> I have them on OTA FOX by far the worse. Last night watching the Monday night game I don't think I had any or if I did very very few. Guess I could check the Kernel log for the time frame.


We may see lots of fox posts because Fox digital ota is always DD5,1. While all the other OTA networks require more equipment to do DD5.1 and many affiliates haven't forked over the cash for that equipment.


----------



## phox_mulder

I have yet to see these 5-10 second losses of audio.
Didn't see them with 3.1, haven't yet with 6.3a.

Point of interest though, I haven't recorded any FOX or ABC HD since getting 6.3a.
ABC, nothing I really want to watch or waste HD harddrive space for,
FOX, I got 6.3a just a week ago, and with the baseball break, I haven't TiVo'd anything.
(maybe I have TiVo's something, just haven't had the urge to watch yet?)

I do TiVo plenty of CBS and NBC and have watched programs recorded prior to getting 6.3a and since getting 6.3a, along with a couple CW and SHO-HD programs.

DD turned on, digital toslink to my 5.1 decoder.


phox


----------



## EMoMoney

phox_mulder said:


> I have yet to see these 5-10 second losses of audio.
> Didn't see them with 3.1, haven't yet with 6.3a.
> 
> Point of interest though, I haven't recorded any FOX or ABC HD since getting 6.3a.
> ABC, nothing I really want to watch or waste HD harddrive space for,
> FOX, I got 6.3a just a week ago, and with the baseball break, I haven't TiVo'd anything.
> (maybe I have TiVo's something, just haven't had the urge to watch yet?)
> 
> I do TiVo plenty of CBS and NBC and have watched programs recorded prior to getting 6.3a and since getting 6.3a, along with a couple CW and SHO-HD programs.
> 
> DD turned on, digital toslink to my 5.1 decoder.
> 
> phox


It doesn't necessarily have to be recorded either. But from the sounds of it, you don't watch much live FOX. You'll get the loss while watching live tv as well, just so happend if you're recording it you'll get the loss too. It's not only on FOX, but the majoority of it is. I've experienced the dropouts on CBS (New adventures of old Christine and COllege Football), ABC(The Nine and College Football), CW(Veronica Mars), ESPN HD(College Football and Baseball) NBC is the only station that doesn't come in really well, so I don't watch much.


----------



## merlin803

I called and spoke to the advanced technical dept and they said that they have had other complaints and filled out an "escalation form" (whatever that means...).

I encourage everyone experiencing this problem to call advanced technical to complain. 

I also asked if I was currently under any commitment with them...I am not and if they don't get this fixed soon then I am going to have to look into what other provider's have to offer. 

65" HDTV - $2000
HDTivo - $500
Pioneer audio reveiver - $450
DTV bill - $100/month

Not being able to watch my Tigers in HDTV (after a 19 freaking year wait!) without losing audio - PRICELESS


----------



## phox_mulder

EMoMoney said:


> It doesn't necessarily have to be recorded either. But from the sounds of it, you don't watch much live FOX. You'll get the loss while watching live tv as well, just so happend if you're recording it you'll get the loss too.


I can count the number of times I've watched Live TV in the last year on 1 finger.

Well, at home anyway.

I watch 10 hours of Live TV four days a week.

Not enjoying a second of it though.

That's what the TiVo's are for.

phox


----------



## PJO1966

I called and had an escalation report done as well. At first the woman I spoke with said that they had not heard of the problem. Later after she checked with her supervisor she said that they were aware of the problem and were working to find a solution quickly.

Blah blah blah.


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## EMoMoney

phox_mulder said:


> I can count the number of times I've watched Live TV in the last year on 1 finger.
> 
> Well, at home anyway.
> 
> I watch 10 hours of Live TV four days a week.
> 
> Not enjoying a second of it though.
> 
> That's what the TiVo's are for.
> 
> phox


I was just trying to point out that the issue is just not what is recorded, but rather what is live+recorded.


----------



## EMoMoney

merlin803 said:


> Not being able to watch my Tigers in HDTV (after a 19 freaking year wait!) without losing audio - PRICELESS


Could be worse, you could be working like me and watching the MLB Gamecast. I've been a Tigers fan for a loooong time, and this makes the playoffs 1000% better this year.


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## merlin803

EMoMoney said:


> Could be worse, you could be working like me and watching the MLB Gamecast. I've been a Tigers fan for a loooong time, and this makes the playoffs 1000% better this year.


Agreed


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## hybucket

I called D*, and have just posted on their forum. http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/listtopics?msgBoardID=10156613
I suggest others do the same.
I spoke to, what I was told, was advanced tech support. Get this - after explaining to her in detail what the problem was, she told me, yes, they were aware of it, and that the problem would be solved as soon _as they sent down the 6.3a update._ She didn't seem to comprehend that the problem was CAUSED by the update. Amazing.
And this was ADVANCED tech support? Geez, what must regular tech support be like?
After last night's dropouts, this is unacceptable.


----------



## billbillw

With 6.3a, unhacked...

I had numerous dropouts watching the Tigers last night too. Fox OTA. 

I split the screen with the integrated HD tuner on my TV and switched the audio back and forth whenever the audio dropped from the HDTivo's output. The audio from the the integrated HD tuner did NOT loose audio! Its definetly something with the Tivo and not the broadcast. The audio drop lasts about 4-5 seconds and could be quite annoying if watching a dialog driven show. I don't mind with sports as much since you are usually just missing some lame commentary. 

I haven't yet had dropouts on regular shows, so this may be something that is related to live on the fly encoding of the sporting events.


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## Mavrick22

I have been experienceing servere audio dropoutouts for the past 2 weeks on OTA and Directv channels and I was on 3.1f the whole time so I am starting to feel that it is not just the 6.3a software that is causing this.

I just recieved 6.3a this morning before I left for work and will see how things function tonight after I get home as I look at it the problems cannot be any worse than they have been I hope.


----------



## toms111la

Mavrick22 said:


> I have been experienceing servere audio dropoutouts for the past 2 weeks on OTA and Directv channels and I was on 3.1f the whole time so I am starting to feel that it is not just the 6.3a software that is causing this.
> 
> I just recieved 6.3a this morning before I left for work and will see how things function tonight after I get home as I look at it the problems cannot be any worse than they have been I hope.


I find it curious that some folks who purport to have 3.1 software have been having audio dropout the past 2 weeks while many others , myself included, did not have any such dropouts until 6.3a was installed. I see two possibilities and would be curious what others more expert with these units think. 
First, since a lot of the reported problems have been with Fox, perhaps the Fox affiliates have been given a software update which is making the buffer overruns more frequent? To subscribe to that theory, one would have to think that two different unrelated things have happened at about the same time. Most of the time those things don't happen.
Secondly, perhaps not all of 6.3a update is being done at the same time. Is it possible that portions of the overall upgrade are being done by D* without any indication or restart or that most of the upgrade gets done but due to some malfunction, the portion of the update which updates the system information section did not finish properly leaving some machines with part of the update, causing the audio problem, but still shows 3.1?


----------



## josejrp

Completely out of the blue, my wife told me today that there was something wrong with the Fox feed because her recorded "Bones" episodes had noticeable audio dropouts - bad enough where she had to turn on closed-captioning. Since she has no idea that the TiVo got upgraded, I see this as a good independent verification that the problem is real and it is not just us techies hearing a problem that has been there all along. So far I have had the dropouts on Fox (very frequently) and on ABC (only once or twice). Both channels are being recorded OTA, with 5.1, and 720p, for what that's worth. CBS is also 5.1 where I live, but I have not noticed any dropouts with them... As mentioned before, this is not an AV receiver incompatibility, because the dropouts are also on the analog outputs of the TiVo (assuming the DD stream was recorded). Not sure why DD errors would show up on the analog outputs, but there you have it...


----------



## Mavrick22

toms111la said:


> I find it curious that some folks who purport to have 3.1 software have been having audio dropout the past 2 weeks while many others , myself included, did not have any such dropouts until 6.3a was installed. I see two possibilities and would be curious what others more expert with these units think.
> First, since a lot of the reported problems have been with Fox, perhaps the Fox affiliates have been given a software update which is making the buffer overruns more frequent? To subscribe to that theory, one would have to think that two different unrelated things have happened at about the same time. Most of the time those things don't happen.
> Secondly, perhaps not all of 6.3a update is being done at the same time. Is it possible that portions of the overall upgrade are being done by D* without any indication or restart or that most of the upgrade gets done but due to some malfunction, the portion of the update which updates the system information section did not finish properly leaving some machines with part of the update, causing the audio problem, but still shows 3.1?


You know now that you mention it I think that most of my audio dropout have been from my Fox and ABC stations I really cannot rember dropouts on other stations. Will ask when I get home this evening and see if anyone else has noticed dropouts on other stations.


----------



## altan

I think the following would be an excellent test to run. Sadly, I don't have two HR10-250 to do it. 

Get 1 HR10-250 with 3.1.5 
Get 1 HR10-250 with 6.3a 

Ensure the OTA is split correctly so both HR10-250 are receiving the same signal level. Record the same set of programs on both HR10-250's. Now, determine whether both boxes have dropout. 

I did a similar test with the equipment I have. A HR10-250 and a Windows Media PC (with ATI HDTV card). I recorded the same program on both. HR10-250 had the mystery audio dropout, Windows Media PC did not. The audio dropout is the "video keeps going, audio stops for 8-10 seconds. Video then breaks up, comes back and both audio and video are good." 

Because of the above, I'm reasonably confident this is an HR10-250 issue and not a broadcaster issue. (I admit I'm ignoring the fact that the HR10-250 and ATI card may have different OTA tuners). In a controlled environment like above, knowing if the problem appears on 3.1.5 and/or 6.3a would be interesting. 

... Altan


----------



## EMoMoney

altan said:


> I think the following would be an excellent test to run. Sadly, I don't have two HR10-250 to do it.
> 
> Get 1 HR10-250 with 3.1.5
> Get 1 HR10-250 with 6.3a
> 
> Ensure the OTA is split correctly so both HR10-250 are receiving the same signal level.


Some have posted they have tested this. I don't know if they verified if the signal was the same level or not, but a few have tested this and stated they received no audio droputs on the 3.x unit.


----------



## DennisMileHi

EMoMoney said:


> Some have posted they have tested this. I don't know if they verified if the signal was the same level or not, but a few have tested this and stated they received no audio droputs on the 3.x unit.


Yeah, I reported that. I have only seen one dropout on Fox while watching House acouple of weeks ago. I looked at the recording on my second 3.1 HD Tivo which recorded the same show and there was no dropout. Both my units are now upgraded to 6.3a so that is the only data point I can offer. OTA signal strengths through diplexors are about the same on each unit.


----------



## mgoddard1

Here's what I'm seeing in tverr.log with 6.3a and these events coordinate with audio dropouts on my OTA channels.

Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 11:51:26 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 11:53:26 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 11:55:34 (none) last message repeated 2 times
Oct 11 12:01:17 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 12:05:52 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 12:13:20 (none) last message repeated 2 times
Oct 11 12:14:35 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 12:31:26 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 12:45:34 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 13:07:45 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 13:35:35 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 13:55:15 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 14:30:57 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 14:31:23 (none) last message repeated 21 times
Oct 11 20:11:15 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 20:25:46 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 20:28:57 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 20:32:10 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 21:21:13 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 21:31:32 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 21:41:05 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 22:15:37 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 22:19:32 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 22:20:44 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 22:29:19 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun
Oct 11 23:19:02 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[283]: GetData: Overrun


----------



## TyroneShoes

altan said:


> I think the following would be an excellent test to run. Sadly, I don't have two HR10-250 to do it.
> 
> Get 1 HR10-250 with 3.1.5
> Get 1 HR10-250 with 6.3a
> 
> Ensure the OTA is split correctly so both HR10-250 are receiving the same signal level. Record the same set of programs on both HR10-250's. Now, determine whether both boxes have dropout. ...In a controlled environment like above, knowing if the problem appears on 3.1.5 and/or 6.3a would be interesting.
> 
> ... Altan


And the answer is: (drumroll, please)......................

.......It only happens under 6.3/6.3a. I have performed this exact test. Somewhat by accident, I have met the above parameters. I had double-recorded some shows by mistakenly setting SPs for them on both a 6.3 box and a 3.1 box, the very day after getting 6.3. The dropouts only occured under 6.3, and later under 6.3a, I saw the same characteristic 8-second problem. The 3.1 box never blinked. Hope that helps.


----------



## TyroneShoes

Markman07 said:


> My first OTA choke of today's game (lions and vikings).
> --------------------
> Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full.
> Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN
> Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS
> Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS
> Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
> Oct 8 17:24:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


MarkMan, what utility are you running that is giving you the error logging?


----------



## hybucket

All this techno mumbo jumbo is fine for those who have even a clue what it all means, and hopefully the techs at D* do (though I wouldn't bet the ranch). The bottom line is, when are they going to FIX it?? It happened to me tonight on ABC with LOST and last night with BOSTON LEGAL, so it's not just FOX.


----------



## dtanforan

altan said:


> I agree this is a big problem. However, it's not clear it's very widespread. I've only heard a couple of people say they have the problem (and I suspect most people with the HR10-250 use OTA and have a Dolby Digital receiver).
> 
> Are people with this problem using HDMI or Toslink for digital audio?
> 
> I don't have the upgrade yet, but I might unplug the phone until more info is available (as a few others have suggested)...
> 
> ... Altan


I have the same exact problem. Started last week. Mine was already set to PCM and the problem still exists. It has happend on all major OTA networks for me.


----------



## mgoddard1

I really think this is a software problem too because if it was a signal glitch I would expect an underrun, not an overrun. The entries in tverr have matching entries in the kernel log:

tverr:
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun

kernel:
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> Signal quality problem: 1 more
en; total now: 1.
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() fail
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
Oct 11 10:32:24 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS

tverr:
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) TvMomHpkSwitchSource.C[284]: GetData: Overrun

kernel:
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full.
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


----------



## eventhorizon

cheer said:


> I get this, only on channels outputting dolby digital. PCM output seems fine -- and, in fact, if I go in and change my "digital output" to output PCM instead of dolby, everything sounds fine.
> 
> Well.
> 
> Except not in digital surround, of course.
> 
> Anyone else getting this?


Yes, I am as well. I just installed the HR10-250 about a week ago and was wonderin' what the HECK was up. I was going to buy a new HR20 but I'm rethinking that.

stev


----------



## gregftlaud

has anyone else noticed this too on the channels when there is an audio dropout.

it only happens on my local fox ota....but after the audio dropout ends and the audio comes back the picture sorta freezes for a minisecond and pixelates


----------



## chris_h

gregftlaud said:


> has anyone else noticed this too on the channels when there is an audio dropout.
> 
> it only happens on my local fox ota....but after the audio dropout ends and the audio comes back the picture sorta freezes for a minisecond and pixelates


Yes, many of us have noticed that, as documented in this thread. That is what I have been calling the video burp, or glitch.

It is likely a direct result of this:
Oct 11 21:23:56 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart


----------



## nasafella

If you do a Google search for things like "fox audio dropouts" you'll see that it's been happening here and there for years. The new Dish DVR seems to have lots of problems like this. 

Makes me think that maybe it's a combination of a pre-existing problem from some broadcasters/networks, and a new tivo software version that's more susceptible to the errors. 

Which leads one to believe that it will never get fixed, as all parties can point the finger at the other parties. Especially since it works sometimes on all channels, and all the time on some channels. 

It's not like the first 6.3 rollout where some people lost locals of a certain satellite. That was consistent. This 'new' audio problem isn't. 

And, since it affects mostly OTA reception, DTV would probably just as soon sell everyone a new HR20 than fix a (potentially complex) problem with the HR10. 
I think we're in for a long, dark, winter of choppy audio and sporadic reboots. 

Well, hopefully I'm wrong. In the meantime, I'm re-installing my original, unhacked, 3.1.5f drive, with the phone unplugged.


----------



## richtate

It is October 12 at 12:18am. I was watching Conan O'Brien on my local channel 5 (not the ota) and the audio dropped out from 12:18 to 12:19. It came back after that minute. This is the first drop out I've noticed since getting 6.3 last week.


----------



## richtate

Oh yeah, i was watching in real time and was not recording Conan.


----------



## jbradway

I for one didn't have any FOX droputs before 6.3a. Now I have them every time I tune in the station. And tonight I had the first 10 second audio drop while watching Lost on ABC OTA. I've had the some OTA pixelization and dropped video and audio pop on on rare occasions. But tonight it did the same missing audio trick that I see on FOX. I've never seen that on ABC. I wish I could remove the update and not lose all my recorded shows.


----------



## JohnDG

Is there a difference between the DTV supplied network signal and the OTA signal when it comes to DD/Stereo?

For example, does OTA include an imbedded stereo signal in the MPEG2 along with the DD stream? If not, does it use the DD stream to decode and produce the stereo output (RCA cables/PCM) signal?

Does the DTV Network(s) signal work the same way? Or does the DTV have a legacy imbedded stereo signal on top of a separate DD signal? Something along the lines of HBO SD?

What makes me curious is the option "Do not record DD" for the HD TiVos.

jdg


----------



## EMoMoney

Has anybody tried a complete reset of their system, not just a reboot? I'm curious if it resolves the issue.


----------



## AZJimbo

I had dropouts before the update, IMO it's not caused by the update.


----------



## PJO1966

AZJimbo said:


> I had dropouts before the update, IMO it's not caused by the update.


Which audio dropouts were you experiencing? Was it the one second dropout remedied by hitting the instant replay button or the 30 second dropout recorded in?


----------



## bwaldron

AZJimbo said:


> I had dropouts before the update, IMO it's not caused by the update.


I doubt that anybody had 100% drop-out free OTA before the upgrade.

However, if you read the thread, there is a new and specific type of dropout unique to 6.3 caused by buffer issues.


----------



## steven-h

EMoMoney said:


> Has anybody tried a complete reset of their system, not just a reboot? I'm curious if it resolves the issue.


Called Direct today and the CSR suggested this and I have completed it. I am waiting for guide to repopulate to set my season passes up. Will see what happens with audio and report back. Took close to an hour to reformat disk and ready to use again.


----------



## Markman07

I don't see how a complete reset will fix this as I had upgraded to 6.3 then back to 3.15F using a virgin image and then finally used the slicer to get to 6.3a. The dropouts (as specified in this thread) happened both with 6.3 and on 6.3a without more than few record programs and season passes.


----------



## EMoMoney

Markman07 said:


> I don't see how a complete reset will fix this as I had upgraded to 6.3 then back to 3.15F using a virgin image and then finally used the slicer to get to 6.3a. The dropouts (as specified in this thread) happened both with 6.3 and on 6.3a without more than few record programs and season passes.


Well, there are those who have 6.3/6.3a and claim they have no audio dropouts at all. This indicates there could be an indication of envirnmental issue. What make my unit different from one that is not experiencing the issue?


----------



## Cheezmo

Do you watch Fox HD OTA enough to have had a chance to see the issue? I've seen posts from others who say they have never seen the problem, and coincidentally never watch OTA HD.


----------



## pkscout

steven-h said:


> Called Direct today and the CSR suggested this and I have completed it. I am waiting for guide to repopulate to set my season passes up. Will see what happens with audio and report back. Took close to an hour to reformat disk and ready to use again.


They always suggest that if a reboot doesn't fix the problem. It's step number 2 of waste the customer's time doing things we know won't help. I had a bad drive in my first H10, I knew it was a bad drive, I could demonstrate exactly why and where it was bad, and they still made me waste a day doing it. And, as I predicted, it failed to even do the reset because of the bad drive, so I had a doorstop until they sent me the new one.


----------



## jediphish

Long time poster over at AVSforum; have been lurking here for a while but this is my first post.

I have two HR10s. The newer unit (in an upstairs den) upgraded to 6.3 then to 6.3a. The older unit did not upgrade automatically for a long time, and based on the problems with 6.3 noted here, I kept it unplugged. Last night I forced a call and it upgraded the older unit to 6.3a. While watching the first show the machine recorded after the upgrade, Ugly Betty, which was recorded over-the-air from my local ABC affiliate (720p with a subchannel also), I experienced the 8-10 second audio dropout. I recorded the show in Dolby Digitial and played it back in Dolby Digital connected via opitcal to my reciver.

I *never* had *this particular* problem before. I'm not sure if my newer unit, which has had 6.3a for some time has the problem or not, because I don't watch that TV much. I will investigate it though, and if it turns out its only the older unit, I'll consider myself lucky, switch the units. If both are suffering the problem, then I'll kick myself in the arse for plugging the older unit back into the phone line.


----------



## hybucket

I've said it before, but...the bottom line is, we can all compare stories as to when and why, but that doesn't solve the problem. For the $ we've spent and continue to spend, all this is unacceptable and we should all - not just those of us on the forums - be compensated for not receiving what we are paying for. Am I the only one who thinks that they're not handling this well at all??? Even a simple "Yes, we know, we apologize, we're working as fast as we can..." would seem be the thing for them to do.


----------



## Bryan Lyle

There is definitely a problem somewhere. I have 2 units. One has been updated and one has not. Both had on the NLCS game on Fox. The 6.3a unit dropped audio every 60 - 65 seconds for 8 - 10 seconds at a time. The unit that was not updated worked flawlessly. That unit is now unplugged from the phone line.

I can live with the dropouts until they get it fixed, however, if I hear my wife one more time telling me that her Nanny 911 recording is messed up, I am going to throw the Tivo out the window


----------



## Markman07

Earl can you tell us anything more... from what I understand is that the right people do know but am unclear on if someone is actively working on to fix?


----------



## jediphish

I called Level 2 Technical Support to report the audio drop problem that I am now experienceing after the 6.3 release. I wasn't really asking the rep for a fix, just wanted to report it. She was nice, said that according to her notes, they are aware of the problem. She said she would be giving my information to her supervisor who would then pass it on to engineering.

At this point, this is about the best I can do.

She did, of course, tell me that the "temporary" fix is to turn off DD recording (and DD output obviously).


----------



## Jpepping

I have not noticed any dropouts until last night. I turned on the BBall game and right away 10s of no audio. Then is was ok, with more dropouts as I watched. I have had no other dropouts until now, I wonder if there is something with the Live National Feed, we typically do not get live OTA way out here in AZ. I seem to remember that the sound was OK when they went to commerical break and it switched to the local feed. 

Unfortunatly, I now have to add myself to the "audio bug" crowd.

Jim


----------



## Bryan Lyle

I must say, that once they went to commercial on my NLCS game, it was fine as well.


----------



## jediphish

Jpepping said:


> I have not noticed any dropouts until last night. I turned on the BBall game and right away 10s of no audio. Then is was ok, with more dropouts as I watched. I have had no other dropouts until now, I wonder if there is something with the Live National Feed, we typically do not get live OTA way out here in AZ. I seem to remember that the sound was OK when they went to commerical break and it switched to the local feed.
> 
> Unfortunatly, I now have to add myself to the "audio bug" crowd.
> 
> Jim


Jim,
Have you D* customer support to notify them? That's the best way to add yourself to the official "audio bug" crowd and a nice way to help us all with receiving a fix.


----------



## Jpepping

jediphish said:


> Jim,
> Have you D* customer support to notify them? That's the best way to add yourself to the official "audio bug" crowd and a nice way to help us all with receiving a fix.


I am going to do that tonight, I need to see if I get the national FOXHD since PHX is Owned and Operated station  , so I figured I could kill 2 birds with one On Hold. 

Jim


----------



## aVOLanche

Add me to the post 6.3a audio dropout list.Never had any dropouts before.Now Fox and ABC are awful>audio drops for a few seconds and comes back with a quick pixelation of the video(video stays perfect during the audio dropouts).
Just got off the phone with a nice young lady(csr).She told me to disable Dolby Digital 5.1 and change DD to PCM(digital output).So they are admitting a problem.Then she said she really didn't know much about the problem and transferred the call to"advanced tech ".They said they had never heard of the problem,but will report it.The tech accessed this forum and this thread while we were on the phone.Hopefully,they will read the posts.
I hope they follow up!


----------



## hybucket

Now THAT'S great! Advanced tech has never heard of the problem.
Reminds me of what I went through years ago when Verizon first started up DSL.
THe only way D* is going to realize they "have a problem" is for their customers to threaten to leave. This is insane.


----------



## tbarker

I've been following the 6.3 threads for several weeks, and have reluctantly pulled the plug (on my phone) to prevent my Tivo from upgrading...

It seems the most popular theory for why some people are having issues while others are not, is most likely due to how the audio signal is being broadcast by each local station. So with that in mind, is there anyone in the Cincinnati area with 6.3a who can report on whether or not they are experiencing the 8-10 second audio drop outs?

Another theory I'm curious about is if the audio issue is related to certain revisions of the HR10-250 hardware. For example, is the issue showing up on all models? Old, middle-aged, and new HR10-250's alike?


----------



## meanstreak55

Hello all,

I've lurked here off and on for awhile, but this is my first post. Like many of you, I also have the audio drop out issue on Fox OTA. While watching the NLCS game tonight I was getting dropouts very frequently (8 seconds no audio w/ video glitch). The dropouts were occurring about every 30 seconds to a minute. About 15 minutes ago, I decided to switch my second tuner to an audio channel (no buffering utlized) and the dropouts immediately stopped... haven't had any since. Has anyone else tried this??

Todd


----------



## TomF

I got upgraded this morning and while watching the Detroit/Oakland game this afternoon on Fox-HD OTA, I noticed a couple of dropouts showrtly after I started watching. Each time when the audio came back there was a slight video disruption. I don't remember it happening again.


----------



## gregftlaud

so there is no offical word Earl on any new update anytime soon to fix the audio dropouts? this has been going on for some time now u would think it would have been fixed by now. when the 6.3 software came out with the 72.5 locals glitch....it took about a week for them to start rolling out 6.3a. so what is the freaking holdup?


----------



## jtchambliss

I just got 6.3 Friday and have quickly noticed the audio drop outs. They are only happening on Fox HD OTA. Hope we get this fixed soon. It makes watching my Oakland A's even harder.


----------



## jtchambliss

meanstreak55 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I've lurked here off and on for awhile, but this is my first post. Like many of you, I also have the audio drop out issue on Fox OTA. While watching the NLCS game tonight I was getting dropouts very frequently (8 seconds no audio w/ video glitch). The dropouts were occurring about every 30 seconds to a minute. About 15 minutes ago, I decided to switch my second tuner to an audio channel (no buffering utlized) and the dropouts immediately stopped... haven't had any since. Has anyone else tried this??
> 
> Todd


That worked great. The first 3 innings of the Oakland/Detroit game I was getting audio drops every 5-10 minutes. After switching the other tuner to an xm channel, no more audio drops. This will at least get me through the game.


----------



## jtchambliss

jtchambliss said:


> That worked great. The first 3 innings of the Oakland/Detroit game I was getting audio drops every 5-10 minutes. After switching the other tuner to an xm channel, no more audio drops. This will at least get me through the game.


Spoke too soon. Just got an audio drop with xm on the other buffer


----------



## mfury88

_I got upgraded this morning and while watching the Detroit/Oakland game this afternoon on Fox-HD OTA, I noticed a couple of dropouts showrtly after I started watching. Each time when the audio came back there was a slight video disruption. I don't remember it happening again._

Ugh.. this is EXACTLY what I am getting. I JUST got the software Friday night. Everything I've read on here is exactly what is happening. It seems to ONLY be FOX, OTA, and when it happens, the video gets disrupted when the audio comes back!

WTF WTF WTF WTF!! I've had this box for 2 years now. This AFTER I replaced the darn thing 3x because of the HDMI issue and video. Now all of a sudden I have this problem BACK again. I am VERY angry now.


----------



## pepijn

Just decided to register and post my similar unlucky experiences with audio dropouts and 6.3a. My box must've updated overnight because last night I had no trouble watching Tigers/A's game 3 through Fox Detroit's OTA feed. In contrast, tonight the game was unwatchable and I had to switch to the SD feed. I actually realized I had the 6.3a done because my receiver was showing PLII surround instead of 5.1 on the HD feed, but at that point it was already giving me dropouts. Switching the optical out back to DD seemed to only make this worse, and I had to switch soon after.

The guide is faster and I have folders for my recordings, but at what price?

pepijn.


----------



## DmgInc

Any idea as to why this problem seems to be mainly affecting FOX (OTA?) the most? My FOX OTA is guaranteed minimum of 5 dropouts per hour show, and during baseball/football 2x to 3x that. Has anyone looked at the file data of a FOX OTA recording vs. say a CBS OTA recording to see what, if anything, is different?


----------



## shanew1289

mfury88 said:


> _I got upgraded this morning and while watching the Detroit/Oakland game this afternoon on Fox-HD OTA, I noticed a couple of dropouts showrtly after I started watching. Each time when the audio came back there was a slight video disruption. I don't remember it happening again._
> 
> Ugh.. this is EXACTLY what I am getting. I JUST got the software Friday night. Everything I've read on here is exactly what is happening. It seems to ONLY be FOX, OTA, and when it happens, the video gets disrupted when the audio comes back!
> 
> WTF WTF WTF WTF!! I've had this box for 2 years now. This AFTER I replaced the darn thing 3x because of the HDMI issue and video. Now all of a sudden I have this problem BACK again. I am VERY angry now.


count me in too, playoffs of all times.... FOX OTA specifically, to a tee


----------



## aphex187

My HR10-250 was upgraded today to 6.3a. I use HDMI to the back of my Samsung DLP - no receiver.

Audio Dropouts happen on any OTA recordings. Anything recorded on a sat. feed is fine but whether it was recorded a month ago OTA or today, it has the dropouts. I would say it happens every 5-10 seconds and makes those shows unwatchable.

This sucks


----------



## gregftlaud

hello dtv...it took u only a week to go from 6.3 to 6.3a......these audio dropouts have been happening about a month now since 6.3 orginally came out.....it shouldnt be taking this long to fix. some how i think they are trying to get us all to upgrade to the hr20


----------



## generalpatton71

eddit sorry didn't mean to post.


----------



## DolphinGirl

If it is true that audio dropouts are only occurring on OTA broadcasts, are DNS programs OK?


----------



## AJ500

tbarker said:


> I've been following the 6.3 threads for several weeks, and have reluctantly pulled the plug (on my phone) to prevent my Tivo from upgrading...
> 
> It seems the most popular theory for why some people are having issues while others are not, is most likely due to how the audio signal is being broadcast by each local station. So with that in mind, is there anyone in the Cincinnati area with 6.3a who can report on whether or not they are experiencing the 8-10 second audio drop outs?
> 
> Another theory I'm curious about is if the audio issue is related to certain revisions of the HR10-250 hardware. For example, is the issue showing up on all models? Old, middle-aged, and new HR10-250's alike?


My HR10-250 has been upgraded to 6.3a. I just tuned to FOX HD 19.1 OTA and have gotten five dropouts in the first 30 minutes. Two were during the NFL pre-game show and three early during the game. Each has lasted several seconds.

My 10-250 is one of the first. The video is over HDMI and the audio is fed through a Denon receiver.


----------



## snoots

I called again to complain, both of my boxes do the same 6-10 sec audio loss with slight pixelation when it returns. After convincing the CSR that I was not going to buy the "turn your audio to PCM" solution, she went away and when she came back said that engineering was working on a fix and would be correcting the issue. Where have we heard that before???


----------



## bigroot

I just got upgraded this morning and I too have the audio dropouts on OTA!!

I never had any problems before 6.3a.


----------



## aVOLanche

An update on my situation.I have two(2) receivers(HR10-250).One is 2+ years old and the other is 2 months old.Both have updated to 6.3a and both have the audio dropout issues.It is NOT a hardware issue.I never had audio dropouts before the update.

Today I was watching the Atlanta Falcons NFL game in HD on Fox(OTA) and got the dropouts.So I put the other sat tuner on NFL Sunday Ticket ch721-HD-satellite-same game-Guess what......NO DROPOUTS.....none......nada.And D****TV won't admit the problem.They PO me more every year.


----------



## Budget_HT

Reboots and audio dropouts on one HD TiVo with 6.3a for about a week. All audio dropouts are on 720p HD channels FOX, ABC and ESPN-HD.

No problems at all on the other HD TiVo still on 3.1.

Reported problem to DirecTV. They wanted to review audio settings (which I have had on PCM for a week now) and have me do another power-down reset, which I refused to do. I just wanted to add another report to the growing list.


----------



## Ein

I think I'll disconnect the phone line to avoid the problem.


----------



## Ein

too late, it's pending a restart.

Bewared what you wish for.


----------



## TomF

I got 6.3a last week and I've noticed audio drop outs on Fox and CBS OTA.


----------



## hybucket

Someone in Vegas could make a bundle taking bets on how many complaints it takes before D* recognizes the problem...then, another bet for how long it takes them to fix it.


----------



## drew2k

snoots said:


> I called again to complain, both of my boxes do the same 6-10 sec audio loss with slight pixelation when it returns. After convincing the CSR that I was not going to buy the "turn your audio to PCM" solution, she went away and when she came back said that engineering was working on a fix and would be correcting the issue. Where have we heard that before???


Was it right after 6.3 rolled out and customers complained that they couldn't see some of the satellites?


----------



## Ein

I don't know how often the drop outs occur. I watched 30 min of Fox and didn't noticed any. Maybe it's too soon to tell.


----------



## thebishman

Both of my units have now upgraded. I have experienced no audio drop-outs on CBS HD OTA, or any other OTA digital stations. I unfortunately do not have FOX HD OTA, so can't comment on that.
Bish


----------



## chris_h

DolphinGirl said:


> If it is true that audio dropouts are only occurring on OTA broadcasts, are DNS programs OK?


It is not true that the DD audio dropouts only affect OTA channels.


----------



## jpeckinp

Well I was watching the football games today on Fox and it was the first time I experienced any audio drop outs. I was constantly switching between 4 different channels to watch games and Fox was the only with the problem.

They better have this fixed before 24 starts in Jan.


----------



## videojanitor

I received 6.3a on one of my machines last Wednesday. Hadn't had a chance to play with it much. Tonight I watched back a couple of recordings I made last week -- "Lost" and "CSI" -- both were flawless. Afterward, I tuned into the news on my local FOX station -- within two minutes, I was treated to my first audio dropout.  I kept watching -- they happened every five minutes or so, usually only lasting about 2 seconds, followed by some picture breakup. 

I was buffering the same channel on my other, 3.1 machine, and reviewed the same sections and found no problems at all.

What doesn't make sense is why this seems to be affecting FOX stations more than others. I could see if it was only during network programming, as they are all being fed from the same encoder at FOX, but during non-network periods (like the time I was watching), there should be nothing in common with any of them. 

Suffice it to say, the phone line has been pulled on my one remaining unit, and I will shortly be restoring the drive image I made last week on the other one.


----------



## sluciani

Wife and I have been watching an average of 3 network shows a night for the past week to clear up a backlog of recordings that took place while we were away on vacation. All shows were recorded in HD and DD, which is being decoded by a Yamaha receiver via the coaxial S/PDIF connector. Recordings were about a 50/50 mix of OTA and D* and the unit is running 6.3a.

After about 18 hours of viewing over 7 nights, we haven't been able to detect any significant audio dropout activity. Certainly nothing more than we had with 3.15f... maybe one or two one-second or less dropouts in the course of an evening's viewing.

/steve


----------



## toms111la

sluciani said:


> Wife and I have been watching an average of 3 network shows a night for the past week to clear up a backlog of recordings that took place while we were away on vacation. All shows were recorded in HD and DD, which is being decoded by a Yamaha receiver via the coaxial S/PDIF connector. Recordings were about a 50/50 mix of OTA and D* and the unit is running 6.3a.
> 
> After about 18 hours of viewing over 7 nights, we haven't been able to detect any significant audio dropout activity. Certainly nothing more than we had with 3.15f... maybe one or two one-second or less dropouts in the course of an evening's viewing.
> 
> /steve


Were all the recordings made after the unit was upgraded? All of my pre-update recordings were fine. Only recordings made after the update caused problems.


----------



## hybucket

Well, I had my first spontaneous TiVO reboot this morning. Changing channels, the screen went dark, then began rebooting. It got to the "ALMOST THERE" screen, and stayed there for a half hour. I called D*, who said it was probably processing a new update. I said I don't think so. She put me on hold for ten minutes, then came back and suggested I unplug/replug. I did. THe same thing...stuck at "almost there." She was flustered. For laughs, I pushed the channel-up button on the remote, and magically, the unit came to life. The CSR said that had nothing to do with it, but I have my doubts. IT's now working fine but...how long must we endure the re-booting and the audio-drop? The CSR was polite, and was aware of the problem since the 6.3 update, but had no idea when the problem would be fixed.
On another note, and this may not be the proper thread for this but who cares, a website called "TV Predictions" run by someone named "Swammi" is saying this morning that D* is giving rebates to the customers who have the $9.99 HD package, because D* is taking away some of those stations on weekends to gain bandwidth for their NFL HD package. SOme customers are getting full refunds of $9.99 for a year, others are getting partials. Certainly worth a call to D*, if you ask me.


----------



## newsposter

was away over weekend and came back to 6 3. This morning, had OTA news show go blank on audio for a few seconds and the pic was perfect. Definitely not in line with previous OTA stuff where the pic went south along with the audio of course. Hopefully a one time thing but i unplugged the other unit so as not to get the update


----------



## pmturcotte

I got a ton of dropouts this weekend, most noticeably during the MLB playoff games, OTA HD feed (HDR10250/6.3). Too bad they couldnt time it to happen every time Lou Pinella opens his mouth.

The dropouts are getting pretty ridiculous if you ask me.


----------



## EMoMoney

pmturcotte said:


> The dropouts are getting pretty ridiculous if you ask me.


+1000
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's either tolerate the audio droouts or upgrade to the HR20 which from everything I am reading is still very unstable.


----------



## pmturcotte

Didnt I also read that the HR20 currently does not support OTA feeds? I could be wrong but I thought in one of these endless threads I read that. That makes it almost useless to me, I have a very strong OTA signal where I live. 

Did have DTV call me back though after I sent a complaint email in. Will see what they say. Wouldnt mind if they offered me a free 5lmb dish and DVR upgrade of some sort - provided everything actually works. For stuff thats unstable, I may as well keep what I have!


----------



## whsbuss

pmturcotte said:


> Didnt I also read that the HR20 currently does not support OTA feeds? I could be wrong but I thought in one of these endless threads I read that. That makes it almost useless to me, I have a very strong OTA signal where I live.
> 
> Did have DTV call me back though after I sent a complaint email in. Will see what they say. Wouldnt mind if they offered me a free 5lmb dish and DVR upgrade of some sort - provided everything actually works. For stuff thats unstable, I may as well keep what I have!


Yes, the HR20 still has OTA disabled (according to the AVS forum). I thought I saw something about D* not reading posts on this site and that they had their own site for us to complain. Anyone else see that?

Somehow we need get a ground swell of complains to D* about these dropouts.


----------



## jeffloby

I am sure this has all ready been asked before and I am sorry if so. But has anyone with a HDTV with an OTA tuner noticed an audio dropout or has it been only thru HR10-250's. My Sony has an OTA tuner that brings in a much better signal than my Tivo does. I was wondering if anybody that watches both ways like I do noticed it on the Tivo but not the HDTV. If you get dropouts both ways it wouldn't be a Tivo problem. I still have 3.1 so I haven't been able to compare the two different ways. 

Thanks, Jeff


----------



## chris_h

whsbuss said:


> Yes, the HR20 still has OTA disabled (according to the AVS forum). I thought I saw something about D* not reading posts on this site and that they had their own site for us to complain. Anyone else see that?


Yes, it was reported earlier in this thread, here is the link to the D* forum:
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/listtopics?msgBoardID=10156613


----------



## WinstonSmith

louiss3000 said:


> I have seen this on Fox only..


Same here.


----------



## desulliv

I get audio dropouts on FOX and CBS OTA. Just to check, I had the Seattle/St. Louis football game on FOX OTA and on the satellite feed on the other tuner (was not blacked out even though local TV was airing it). Got audio dropouts on the OTA feed; went to satellite feed to view same segment--no audio dropout.


----------



## videojanitor

Here's something interesting that I don't think anyone else has tried (or maybe the did and I didn't see it). My local FOX station has a subchannel, running "The Tube" music channel. I tuned into that this morning, waited about 5 minutes, and found that it too was hit by the audio dropout problem. That is a very low bit-rate (~4 Mb/s) 480i stream.

This is odd.


----------



## newsposter

the tube is off CW here, great for 3 thumbs up for suggestions to monitor disk space ( and may even catch a good video or 2)

Thanks for the 4mb number, I've been trying to figure out how much each 4 hour block of tube gets me as far as typical network HD space.


----------



## WinstonSmith

shanew1289 said:


> count me in too, playoffs of all times.... FOX OTA specifically, to a tee


Hate to see it happen to you, but I"m glad someone else from my area is being affected.


----------



## videojanitor

newsposter said:


> Thanks for the 4mb number, I've been trying to figure out how much each 4 hour block of tube gets me as far as typical network HD space.


That number can vary, depending on the station, but that's a pretty good average. On the FOX station here, it gets a maximum of 4 Mb/s, but it can get shaved down by the FOX splicer if the network stream asks for more bits (the FOX feed has priority in the mux).

Since I happen to work at this station  , I just sent an email to our main digital engineering guy to see if he can come up with any reason why this problem seems to be affecting FOX stations more than others. It's not making sense (to me) right now.


----------



## sluciani

toms111la said:


> Were all the recordings made after the unit was upgraded? All of my pre-update recordings were fine. Only recordings made after the update caused problems.


Yes. They were all recordings made within the past 3 weeks, post upgrade on this particular HR10.


----------



## bwaldron

videojanitor said:


> Here's something interesting that I don't think anyone else has tried (or maybe the did and I didn't see it). My local FOX station has a subchannel, running "The Tube" music channel. I tuned into that this morning, waited about 5 minutes, and found that it too was hit by the audio dropout problem. That is a very low bit-rate (~4 Mb/s) 480i stream.
> 
> This is odd.


Yeah, that does seem odd. I'd assumed that the buffer problems causing the audio dropouts wouldn't be seen on a low-bitrate subchannel.

Seems to be _something_ in the way FOX broadcasts digitally besides bitrate.

Given D* ownership, it does seem ironic that it is FOX causing the majority of the dropout problems w/ 6.3a.


----------



## tcloyd

Just wanted to add my name to the list of problems. I live in the Minneapolis, St. Paul area in Minnesota. I am only experiencing audio dropouts on Fox OTA ONLY> Everything else is fine. I agree that it must be something in Fox's stream that is causing this......


----------



## GalenMD

Sorry if this has been addressed earlier or elsewhere:

I read in another thread that somebody solved his audio dropout problem with a Clear and Delete. Has anyone here with this problem tried that yet? Would be interesting to see how it works for those having the most problems.


----------



## Budget_HT

sluciani said:


> Yes. They were all recordings made within the past 3 weeks, post upgrade on this particular HR10.


Were any of the recorded programs from either FOX, ABC or ESPN-HD?

My observation is that the vast majority of reported dropouts occur on these 720p channels.

We did not see dropouts on our HD TiVo with 6.3a for over a week, but it looks like that was because we did not watch or record any of the 720p channels (this HD TiVo is used primarily by my wife and she watches mostly NBC and CBS HD, and many SD channels). We did not have any reboots either UNTIL we deliberately tuned in and recorded from the above channels to see if our unit was affected.

Our other HD TiVo is still on 3.1 and has not had any dropouts at all.


----------



## videojanitor

tcloyd said:


> I am only experiencing audio dropouts on Fox OTA ONLY> Everything else is fine. I agree that it must be something in Fox's stream that is causing this......


Same here. The mystery is that there are actually two streams coming from each FOX station. When the FOX network is on-air, you are receiving a data stream that is originating from an encoder at the FOX network center in L.A. -- when the station is in local programming, the data stream is from an encoder at the local station. Since each station is free to use whatever encoder they want, this would seem to eliminate any commonality during non-network time periods.

However, there is one piece of equipment that is always in line, and that is the FOX "splicer." This box performs the switch between the network stream and the locally generated stream. This is the only common thread I can find among all FOX affiliates. I'm going to ask our Chief Engineer to put the thing into bypass this afternoon, and see if that makes any difference.


----------



## EMoMoney

tcloyd said:


> Just wanted to add my name to the list of problems. I live in the Minneapolis, St. Paul area in Minnesota. I am only experiencing audio dropouts on Fox OTA ONLY> Everything else is fine. I agree that it must be something in Fox's stream that is causing this......


No, many users have noted that this is not just isolated to Fox. Yes, it is more common on the Fox OTA, but I have had this problem with CBS, ABC, and CW as well. I don't record anything on NBC OTA as I don't get a good signal from it, but it's not just FOX.


----------



## tbarker

AJ500 said:


> My HR10-250 has been upgraded to 6.3a. I just tuned to FOX HD 19.1 OTA and have gotten five dropouts in the first 30 minutes. Two were during the NFL pre-game show and three early during the game. Each has lasted several seconds.
> 
> My 10-250 is one of the first. The video is over HDMI and the audio is fed through a Denon receiver.


Thanks for the info. You have my sympathy. I think I'm going to leave my HR10-250's phone line disconnected until 6.3b is released.

Are you noticing any audio dropouts on any other locals (5.1, 9.1, 12.1) or on ESPN-HD like others are experiencing?


----------



## videojanitor

OK, just conducted this experiment:

I was hearing the dropouts + picture breakup on FOX OTA (during local programming).
The station put the FOX splicer into "external bypass" -- I watched for 25 minutes -- no dropouts. The splicer was put back inline -- dropouts resumed within 2 minutes.

From this, the only conclusion I can draw is that the FOX splicer is adding something to the data stream that 6.3a does not like. Exactly what this is, I have no idea, but I will be passing this along to both DirecTV and FOX.


----------



## Sir_winealot

Well, I'm getting the problem on CBS ...happened during the (Bucs/Bengals) football game on Sunday. Haven't seen the prob on FOX yet.


----------



## tcloyd

videojanitor said:


> OK, just conducted this experiment:
> 
> I was hearing the dropouts + picture breakup on FOX OTA (during local programming).
> The station put the FOX splicer into "external bypass" -- I watched for 25 minutes -- no dropouts. The splicer was put back inline -- dropouts resumed within 2 minutes.
> 
> From this, the only conclusion I can draw is that the FOX splicer is adding something to the data stream that 6.3a does not like. Exactly what this is, I have no idea, but I will be passing this along to both DirecTV and FOX.


That is awesome that you were able to arrange that. I wonder why others are experiencing drop outs with the other net's OTA feeds? I get all of the big four off OTA and have had no problems with ABC, NBC, and CBS. I will just be thankful and hope that with what you provided to D* will help rersolve this for everyone.


----------



## newsposter

just got 6.3 and 1x FF wouldn't work on last night CW OTA. It freezes when you do 1x FF but 2 and 3x work..unplugged the 2nd receiver to prevent this problem. I guess that i dont have audio dropouts is good though.
but CW still has the same audio crackle at regular intervals


----------



## EMoMoney

tcloyd said:


> That is awesome that you were able to arrange that. I wonder why others are experiencing drop outs with the other net's OTA feeds? I get all of the big four off OTA and have had no problems with ABC, NBC, and CBS. I will just be thankful and hope that with what you provided to D* will help rersolve this for everyone.





EMoMoney said:


> No, many users have noted that this is not just isolated to Fox. Yes, it is more common on the Fox OTA, but I have had this problem with CBS, ABC, and CW as well. I don't record anything on NBC OTA as I don't get a good signal from it, but it's not just FOX.


Just read through this thread and you'll see this is _*not* _ isolated to FOX OTA.


----------



## bwaldron

videojanitor said:


> OK, just conducted this experiment:
> 
> I was hearing the dropouts + picture breakup on FOX OTA (during local programming).
> The station put the FOX splicer into "external bypass" -- I watched for 25 minutes -- no dropouts. The splicer was put back inline -- dropouts resumed within 2 minutes.
> 
> From this, the only conclusion I can draw is that the FOX splicer is adding something to the data stream that 6.3a does not like. Exactly what this is, I have no idea, but I will be passing this along to both DirecTV and FOX.


Very interesting!

I believe I read on AVS that FOX upgraded the splicer late this summer to use a higher data rate. Perhaps the testing done on 6.3 was completed previous to the upgrade and so the problem wasn't seen before release.

Before I re-imaged my machine back to 3.15f and pulled the phone line, the only time I was seeing the dropouts w/ 6.3 was indeed on FOX (though I understand others are seeing it on other channels).

Good that you're passing the info on to D*. Hopefully this can lead to a fix.


----------



## GadgetJunkies

AJ500 said:


> My HR10-250 has been upgraded to 6.3a. I just tuned to FOX HD 19.1 OTA and have gotten five dropouts in the first 30 minutes. Two were during the NFL pre-game show and three early during the game. Each has lasted several seconds.
> 
> My 10-250 is one of the first. The video is over HDMI and the audio is fed through a Denon receiver.


I'm in the Cincy area as well and I too had these dropouts. My HR10-250 has been on the 6.3a for about a week now.


----------



## videojanitor

tcloyd said:


> That is awesome that you were able to arrange that. I wonder why others are experiencing drop outs with the other net's OTA feeds? I get all of the big four off OTA and have had no problems with ABC, NBC, and CBS. I will just be thankful and hope that with what you provided to D* will help rersolve this for everyone.


When you work at the station, you can get some amazing things done. 

Obviously there is more here than meets the eye -- 6.3a is sensitive to something, and the FOX splicer seems to be one of the more easily reproduceable culprits. Whatever the cause, no doubt it can vary from station to station, so I'm not surprised that it happening on other channels.

I just hope that D* doesn't blow it off, and that it gets resolved. Until then, I have re-imaged my drive back to 3.15f, and dropouts are no longer a problem.


----------



## videojanitor

bwaldron said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> I believe I read on AVS that FOX upgraded the splicer late this summer to use a higher data rate. Perhaps the testing done on 6.3 was completed previous to the upgrade and so the problem wasn't seen before release.


The true story on that was, FOX increased the payload on their satellite transponders from ~55 Mb/s to ~77 Mb/s -- this allowed them to put more streams on each transponder, and didn't necessarily equate to a higher data rate for any individual stream. In fact, I saw little to no increase at all for the HD streams.

That said, I don't know what the problem is here, and would require someone with intense knowledge of ATSC and the test equipment to determine exactly what is being sent that the HR10 with 6.3a doesn't like.

Like you, I rolled back to 3.15f, and all is now well again.


----------



## kroddy

Just wondering: 

Anyone experienced this during a recording when they were recording two things at once? 

If so did it happen in both recordings at the same time?


----------



## chris_h

videojanitor said:


> OK, just conducted this experiment:
> 
> I was hearing the dropouts + picture breakup on FOX OTA (during local programming).
> The station put the FOX splicer into "external bypass" -- I watched for 25 minutes -- no dropouts. The splicer was put back inline -- dropouts resumed within 2 minutes.
> 
> From this, the only conclusion I can draw is that the FOX splicer is adding something to the data stream that 6.3a does not like. Exactly what this is, I have no idea, but I will be passing this along to both DirecTV and FOX.


VideoJanitor,

Very interesting indeed. We know from logs posted by Chris Heer that the HR10 experiences data buffer overflow with the audio drops (my theory is that the OS can't keep up and keep the HW supplied with buffers). Is there any more information about what exactly "external bypass" mode on the splicer entails? In other words, does it not allow "stuffing of null packets into the audio data stream" for instance?


----------



## EMoMoney

kroddy said:


> Just wondering:
> 
> Anyone experienced this during a recording when they were recording two things at once?
> 
> If so did it happen in both recordings at the same time?


I don't think so but I will take note this week when The Unit and Veronica Mars are recording.


----------



## videojanitor

chris_h said:


> Is there any more information about what exactly "external bypass" mode on the splicer entails? In other words, does it not allow "stuffing of null packets into the audio data stream" for instance?


Unfortunately, I don't have that answer -- but I will try to find out. Clearly, something is different. It would be interesting to see what would happen with two 6.3a machines both tuned to the same channel -- would the dropouts occur at the same time, or are they totally random? If indeed it is a buffer overflow, then random would seem to be the case.


----------



## tall1

tcloyd said:


> Just wanted to add my name to the list of problems. I live in the Minneapolis, St. Paul area in Minnesota. I am only experiencing audio dropouts on Fox OTA ONLY> Everything else is fine. I agree that it must be something in Fox's stream that is causing this......


tcloyd, switch to FOXE, channel 88. I have not had any dropouts since doing so.


----------



## JaserLet

I experienced my first few audio dropouts today on OTA, I've had 6.3 for about 2 weeks. My HR10-250 is set for plain PCM audio and uses a plain RCA stereo cable pair to connect sound to my TV.

Audio dropouts occured during my wife's soap operas on CBS this afternoon, several moments of no audio over the period of a few minutes. Neither of us has ever experienced any audio dropouts in the past. 

My HR10-250 is running stock 6.3a, it is NOT hacked or modified.


----------



## sluciani

Budget_HT said:


> Were any of the recorded programs from either FOX, ABC or ESPN-HD?


 About half were ABC & FOX. Fox OTA seems to be the source of many folks' complaints.

For those having problems, I have a theory that the new software may be slightly more memory or processor intensive, and that the uncompressed bandwitch of OTA HD (vs. D* compressed HD) may be pushing the HR10 hw/sw architecture to its limits, causing problems under certain circumstances. What these circumstances are and why they affect some of us and not others is a complete mystery to me, however.

I believe that the extra processing load required to process uncompressed OTA HD could very well be the reason the new HR20 does not support OTA, as of yet.

/steve


----------



## pmturcotte

sluciani said:


> I believe that the extra processing load required to process uncompressed OTA HD could very well be the reason the new HR20 does not support OTA, as of yet.
> /steve


I was thinking about this last night.

What is the picture quality difference between pulling the HD locals on the dish or via OTA? I have a strong signal on both (peaks in the 90s) so that wouldnt be an issue of one vs the other. Just notice the OTA signal is so good, I wonder if pulling them all of the dish would 1 - make a difference and 2 - clean up this mess.


----------



## newsposter

who has that noise silencing feature turned on?

When i was scrolling thru 6 3 and trying to figure out what changed...my wife saw the screen that equalized sound and it's been on ever since. CSI NY and NCIS will be the tests this week to see if it really works


----------



## sluciani

pmturcotte said:


> I was thinking about this last night.
> 
> What is the picture quality difference between pulling the HD locals on the dish or via OTA? I have a strong signal on both (peaks in the 90s) so that wouldnt be an issue of one vs the other. Just notice the OTA signal is so good, I wonder if pulling them all of the dish would 1 - make a difference and 2 - clean up this mess.


I have 20/20 vision (with glasses), and I view a 50" Fujitsu plasma which has excellent PQ from about 10 feet away, and I am able to see a subtly better picture with OTA vs. D* compression from the HR10. The OTA picture is a bit "cleaner". However, I only see the difference when I A/B the two pictures. When I'm just viewing a D*-compressed program without comparing, I am still very satisfied with the PQ, so it really makes no difference to me which one I record.

I mainly use OTA to receive the New York City area HD feeds I can't get from D*, UPN, CW and PBS.

/steve


----------



## Budget_HT

steve,

I may have missed this earlier in your posts, but are your audio dropouts only happening on OTA reception? Or are you getting dropouts on FOX and ABC received via satellite?


----------



## tcloyd

tall1 said:


> tcloyd, switch to FOXE, channel 88. I have not had any dropouts since doing so.


I wish I could. Just moved to Minnesota from California this past summer. D* would not give me the HD network feeds off the satellite like they did in LA, even though the affiliates are network owned and operated.


----------



## BBURNES

I know this is not different or more insightful than earlier posts, but since upgrading to 6.3a, I definitely AM experiencing 8-10 second audio dropouts others are experiencing.

So far, I've experienced ONLY when watching OTA broadcasts from FOX and CBS.

This last Sunday, while watching "live/buffered" NFL and MLB games on FOX, the dropouts occured every 10-15 minutes during both broadcasts. Very annoying.

They also occured while watching recorded episodes of CSI on CBS.

DirecTV, where are you in getting this resolved? 

These are not minor "glitches". They are sizeable chunks of the broadcasts that are AWOL. Repeated 8-10 second audio dropouts during episodic TV causes viewer to miss entire parts of the script and plot.


----------



## bluesman64

The best I can tell, I'm only having audio dropouts on Fox OTA (Channel 31-1 in Denver). Are people experiencing dropouts on other OTA or satellite channels?


----------



## chris_h

bluesman64 said:


> The best I can tell, I'm only having audio dropouts on Fox OTA (Channel 31-1 in Denver). Are people experiencing dropouts on other OTA or satellite channels?


Yes. See multiple other posts throughout this thread.


----------



## bwaldron

bluesman64 said:


> The best I can tell, I'm only having audio dropouts on Fox OTA (Channel 31-1 in Denver). Are people experiencing dropouts on other OTA or satellite channels?


Some seem te be. While I had 6.3a installed, I only saw the problem on FOX OTA...however, I saw it often. It wasn't tolerable to me, so I re-imaged my drive back to 3.15f and unplugged my phone. I'll wait for a fix...if none comes, I'll stay with pokey but reliable.


----------



## videojanitor

bwaldron said:


> I'll wait for a fix...if none comes, I'll stay with pokey but reliable.


Same here. I only have two requirements for a DVR:

1. Record what I ask for.

2. Do the above without adding problems.

Don't care how many "features" there are -- if it can't do those two things, it's a doorstop.

FYI --> I have made FOX's top engineering people aware of the 6.3a audio dropouts, and they were very interested to hear about it. They said they would investigate, so assuming they have contacts high-up in the D* engineering area, I'm hopeful that this will move to the front burner.


----------



## tbarker

videojanitor said:


> Same here. I only have two requirements for a DVR:
> 
> 1. Record what I ask for.
> 
> 2. Do the above without adding problems.
> 
> Don't care how many "features" there are -- if it can't do those two things, it's a doorstop.
> 
> FYI --> I have made FOX's top engineering people aware of the 6.3a audio dropouts, and they were very interested to hear about it. They said they would investigate, so assuming they have contacts high-up in the D* engineering area, I'm hopeful that this will move to the front burner.


You are now officially my new hero. :up:


----------



## bwaldron

tbarker said:


> You are now officially my new hero. :up:


I'll second that. Many thanks for getting the ball rolling...hopefully D* and Tivo will pick it up and resolve this issue.


----------



## EMoMoney

Makes you wonder how much testing was actually done here. I'm in te IT industry so I know full well the process of releaseing a new product and the pressures of meeting deadlines. We've released products with bigs, but this is a pretty big issue to be missed.


----------



## GalenMD

Since nobody responded to my prior post, I thought I would try again:

Has anyone tried a Clear and Delete to try to solve this problem? I only found one post in another thread and he had good results.

Updating a system software without doing a clean install seems like a difficult task and is likely fraught with problems. Though I do not want to lose my recorded shows, if I get the dropouts enough, I would likely try this (I'm still on 3.1).


----------



## steven-h

GalenMD said:


> Since nobody responded to my prior post, I thought I would try again:
> 
> Has anyone tried a Clear and Delete to try to solve this problem? I only found one post in another thread and he had good results.
> 
> Updating a system software without doing a clean install seems like a difficult task and is likely fraught with problems. Though I do not want to lose my recorded shows, if I get the dropouts enough, I would likely try this (I'm still on 3.1).


I did that. It is better but, I still get the dropouts that end with video breakup. All from OTA stations mostly FOX but, I have also had them on ABC and CBS.

Since the reformat I average one a night which is much better than before. However it has not fixed the problem altogether for me. And I lost all my recorded shows etc.


----------



## videojanitor

tbarker said:


> You are now officially my new hero.


Hey thanks, but I'll only take the kudos IF the problem gets fixed! Honestly, with this many complaints, I can't imagine that this will be ignored ...


----------



## bwaldron

videojanitor said:


> Hey thanks, but I'll only take the kudos IF the problem gets fixed! Honestly, with this many complaints, I can't imagine that this will be ignored ...


You get kudos regardless IMHO.

I also believe it will be fixed. Hopefully Tivo can shake loose a programmer or two to work on this even while busy fixing their own S3 issues.


----------



## thumperxr69

I will join the sadness.  Received 6.3a last weekend and no problems so far until tonight and I was watching the NLCS OTA from my local FOX and audio dropped for about 6 sec. It was a really difficult decision stay plugged in and receive 6.3 or unplug and keep this pokiness and no folders??? I rolled the dice.

Have we heard if there been any word from D* on a solution??? (I will admit I haven't been able to keep with all of these threads).

Any word from the king of all info Earl???


T


----------



## aVOLanche

I've had the most problems with Fox,then ABC regarding audio dropouts on OTA HD from D*.Tonight I got a CBS dropout during Criminal Minds.It was exactly like the others:about 9-10 secs and a quick video blip at the end.I can't remember whether I've had NBC dropouts,but definitely Fox,ABC,and CBS.


----------



## orange-man

Ditto for me on the dropouts, on the Fox NLCS tonight. 10 seconds and then a video blip. Unbelievable. I'm going to unplug my second unit until they get this thing fixed. I just got my 6.3a yesterday and I was so happy............not anymore.


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

So I have a simple question:

Does anyone out there who has read a majority of the posts on this thread still want to "upgrade"  ??

Deal..... or No Deal


----------



## desulliv

Just watched last night's CSI Tivo'ed on CBS OTA. Four or five audio dropouts with pixelation finale. Have had 6.3a for over a week. As I reported before FOX OTA has same issues.


----------



## efm

dropouts on ota fox and ota nbc (in chicago, 32.1 & 5.1, repectively). virgin unit which took the upgrade 3 days ago; never experienced dropouts previously.


----------



## kbohip

So far I've not had a single noticeable audio dropout with 6.3a, but I'm using the old RCA jacks, not DD or optical out. The spontaneous rebooting is a whole 'nother story though.


----------



## techno_riker

EMoMoney said:


> It does't work. The dropouts are in the recording, not the output.


That can't be true. My pre-6.3 recordings were fine and now after the upgrade I have the drop-out issue.


----------



## videojanitor

techno_riker said:


> That can't be true. My pre-6.3 recordings were fine and now after the upgrade I have the drop-out issue.


What he meant was that after getting 6.3, the audio dropouts will be heard when listening "live," and they will infect the recordings. Anything recorded when 3.1 was installed will play fine (as you noted).


----------



## techno_riker

videojanitor said:


> What he meant was that after getting 6.3, the audio dropouts will be heard when listening "live," and they will infect the recordings. Anything recorded when 3.1 was installed will play fine (as you noted).


No, I mean that my 3.1 recordings (PBS HD only) also have the drop-outs. In fact, so far the PBS 3.1 recordings (Austin City Limits) are the only ones where I experience the drop-outs. I just got the 6.3 upgrade last Friday and all of a sudden I'm getting the drop-out on prior recordings.

I'm just waiting for new recordings and "live" TV to start having the issue.


----------



## videojanitor

Oh, thanks for the clarification. This adds an interesting wrinkle to whole thing. Do the dropouts on your 3.1 recordings follow the same pattern that many here (including myself) have described? That is, do you get a period of silence, followed by a blast of pixellation and then the sound returns?


----------



## sluciani

Budget_HT said:


> steve,
> 
> I may have missed this earlier in your posts, but are your audio dropouts only happening on OTA reception? Or are you getting dropouts on FOX and ABC received via satellite?


Never really paid attention whether there were more dropouts on OTA or Sat, but I'm only experiencing 1 or 2 one-second or less dropouts a night, same as with 3.15f. To save disk space, I try not to record OTA HD when there's a SAT HD alternative, unless for some reason I think a bit of extra resolution might enhance a particular show.

/steve


----------



## fjwagner

I was getting a string a dropouts on Fox Cards Mets last night OTA Houston, but then switched to FoxE HD and they stopped. I have noted many others mentioning Fox as a culprit, so more confirmation on this end. Fred


----------



## newsposter

thumperxr69 said:


> Any word from the king of all info Earl???
> 
> T


he's notably absent from all these complaint threads


----------



## taterheart

No audio dropouts at all last night on FOX OTA (Portland, OR) during the Cards/Mets game. I'm still on 3.1.5 by choice, but I've been getting 1 second audio glitches on FOX OTA every 5 minutes or so for the past month until last night.


----------



## mobilelawyer

Don't hit me for asking this, but how does a mere software upgrade cause audio dropouts? I wonder how much of this is blaming the problem on the upgrade when there might be other causes. That being said, I have 6a, and I have had problems with audio dropouts on OTA channels that I do not remember having before the upgrade. I am just not willing yet to pin them on the upgrade.


----------



## Sir_winealot

What then?


----------



## videojanitor

mobilelawyer said:


> Don't hit me for asking this, but how does a mere software upgrade cause audio dropouts?


I don't think anyone here will hit you, but for me, I look at this as logically as possible. Take my own case: I never had audio dropouts under 3.1 -- because of all the complaints I read here, I decided to make a backup of my drive just in case I experienced this problem. Sure enough, as soon as 6.3 rolled into my system, I'm getting the dropouts. I let it go for a few days -- then I restored my drive back to 3.1 -- the dropouts cease.

From that, I can't really draw any other conclusion than that there is a problem with 6.3. Exactly WHAT the problem is, I have no idea -- only the people who wrote the code will be able to figure that out.


----------



## bwaldron

mobilelawyer said:


> Don't hit me for asking this, but how does a mere software upgrade cause audio dropouts? I wonder how much of this is blaming the problem on the upgrade when there might be other causes. That being said, I have 6a, and I have had problems with audio dropouts on OTA channels that I do not remember having before the upgrade. I am just not willing yet to pin them on the upgrade.


Well, there is a specific audio dropout problem that started for numerous people when their units upgraded. Those with access to the error logs on their units have documented the errors.

It seems quite clear that there is an issue with the new code relating to some channels/types of digital streams. It may of course be an interaction between the new code and changes in the signals received (primarily FOX OTA), but the updated code is clearly involved. The same signals are buffered properly by the older 3.1 code.


----------



## JohnDG

mobilelawyer said:


> Don't hit me for asking this, but how does a mere software upgrade cause audio dropouts? I wonder how much of this is blaming the problem on the upgrade when there might be other causes. That being said, I have 6a, and I have had problems with audio dropouts on OTA channels that I do not remember having before the upgrade. I am just not willing yet to pin them on the upgrade.


Anecdotal evidence shows that release 6.3 fixed the "(Explosive) Static Pop Sound when Changing Channels" problem with some older receivers, including the Denon 3802. Investigation of the previous problem showed it was being caused by bad DD packets being passed on to the receivers.

I'd suggest that the fix to this previous problem entailed different processing of bad DD streams. It would seem that this fix has now caused 6.3 not be able to recover from the DD stream errors until the buffer overflows, when the code then goes into some different error recovery code routine due to the new error condition. The bad spots in the DD streams would correspond to one second DD dropouts running 3.1.5 for the corresponding program's DD stream.

A temporary fix is to back out the new code. The permanent fix is to fix the new code to recover within one second from a bad DD stream, like it could in the previous releases, while not passing the bad packet to the receiver.

jdg


----------



## techno_riker

videojanitor said:


> Oh, thanks for the clarification. This adds an interesting wrinkle to whole thing. Do the dropouts on your 3.1 recordings follow the same pattern that many here (including myself) have described? That is, do you get a period of silence, followed by a blast of pixellation and then the sound returns?


The dropouts on my 3.1 recordings are similar but has a few different types:

1) the audio drops-out for a second or two, but video continues
2) the audio drops-out for a second or two, video pauses, then starts again

I haven't seen any pixelation.


----------



## kbohip

Got my first two audio dropouts with Fox OTA today. They lasted at least 10 seconds each. I haven't noticed any dropouts yet with other stations.


----------



## Budget_HT

techno_riker said:


> The dropouts on my 3.1 recordings are similar but has a few different types:
> 
> 1) the audio drops-out for a second or two, but video continues
> 2) the audio drops-out for a second or two, video pauses, then starts again
> 
> I haven't seen any pixelation.


Those are not the same as dropouts I see on my 6.3 unit. I sometimes got those 1-2 second dropouts when I had reception issues for OTA.

I cannot speak to your specific situation, but I see two separate, seemingly unrelated problems here.


----------



## phox_mulder

techno_riker said:


> 2) the audio drops-out for a second or two, video pauses, then starts again
> 
> I haven't seen any pixelation.


Those are the ones I'm seeing with 6.3a, but they are the same ones I saw with 3.1 since I got the HR10-250.

Usually only 1 per hour, usually towards the beginning of the show, 5-10 minutes in.

I have not seen the 8-10 second of no audio with video continuing,
then coming back after a 1/2 second burst of pixelization.

I have not recorded anything on FOX HD since baseball started,
which coincided with me getting 6.3a on my box.

Hopefully they figure it out and fix it before baseball is over and I start recording from FOX again.

phox


----------



## toms111la

I had a first tonight. I had a classic 6.3a 8-10 sec audio drop from a recording made from our local digital PBS station. This station broadcasts 3 separate signals which map as 24.1, 24.3, & 24.5. The lower two are SD only and 24.5 is PBS HD. I had at least 3 drops in one 1/2 hour recording of (don't laugh) The New Yankee Workshop. This was the first drop I have seen on an SD station.


----------



## Tony Chick

Got 6.3a this morning. Tried to watch the Mets game on Fox OTA thru Tivo and got 8-10 second audio drops every 10 minutes or so. I switched over to my main Zenith HD receiver instead. We don't watch much Fox, but the wife won't be happy if this happens during "House".


----------



## videojanitor

toms111la said:


> This was the first drop I have seen on an SD station.


Yep, I had the same thing happen (reported earlier in this thread). My local FOX station has a subchannel (40-2) with music videos -- the dropouts/pixelation are present there, as well as on the main channel. If anyone else's FOX station has a subchannel, they should check it out -- I'm sure you'll find that it drops out there as well. Both the main and the subchannel are passed through the FOX splicer, which if taken off-line, eliminates the dropouts (at least on FOX). That doesn't mean the splicer is at fault, but rather something about the bitstream that comes out if it is causing 6.3 to ralph up.


----------



## TyroneShoes

JohnDG said:


> ... It would seem that this fix has now caused 6.3 not be able to recover from the DD stream errors until the buffer overflows, when the code then goes into some different error recovery code routine due to the new error condition...


That the audio dropout problem may be tied to 5.1 DD would jive with the fact that many folks are seeing it only or primarily on FOX, as virtually all FOX stations use MPEG splicers to pass DD from the network, while for many markets other net affils do not pass DD at all. It would make sense then that non-DD stations would not manifest the dropout problem at least as much, and that some would only see this on FOX network programs.

Speaking for myself, I am in a market where at least 3 stations pass 5.1 DD to network programming, and those are the 3 stations that I have seen the dropout problem on, always in prime time. Coincidence? I think probably not.


----------



## videojanitor

TyroneShoes said:


> That the audio dropout problem may be tied to 5.1 DD would jive with the fact that many folks are seeing it only or primarily on FOX...


The FOX station I work for does not send 5.1 during non-network time periods (just 2.0), however I experienced just as many dropouts during local programming as I did with network. However, there is definitely something about the splicer output that 6.3 doesn't like -- did you see my earlier post where I took the splicer out of the signal path and the dropouts went away?


----------



## sluciani

sluciani said:


> Never really paid attention whether there were more dropouts on OTA or Sat, but I'm only experiencing 1 or 2 one-second or less dropouts a night, same as with 3.15f. To save disk space, I try not to record OTA HD when there's a SAT HD alternative, unless for some reason I think a bit of extra resolution might enhance a particular show.


Watched the Mets last night on FOX OTA and i experienced one long audio dropout (about 10-15 seconds) at the beginning of the 6th or 7th inning, I believe. Unfortunately, I didn't have FOX SAT on the other tuner as a control.

/steve


----------



## sluciani

toms111la said:


> I had a first tonight. I had a classic 6.3a 8-10 sec audio drop from a recording made from our local digital PBS station. This station broadcasts 3 separate signals which map as 24.1, 24.3, & 24.5. The lower two are SD only and 24.5 is PBS HD. I had at least 3 drops in one 1/2 hour recording of (don't laugh) The New Yankee Workshop. This was the first drop I have seen on an SD station.


From what I'm reading in this thread, the dropouts seem to be associated with DD 5.1, which can be present on both HD and SD. Do you know if the channel you were watching was broadcasting 5.1? /steve


----------



## newsposter

and does DD have to be turned on for us to get the dropouts? I never use DD. I've only had one dropout for a few seconds but havent watched enough fox lately to get a better handle on it. All other network shows this week have been perfect for me though.


----------



## sluciani

newsposter said:


> and does DD have to be turned on for us to get the dropouts?


Apparently not. I was watching the game on FOX OTA on my bedroom HR-10, which has DD record set to "off". Audio DRC was "on" and audio output was set to PCM, though this setting is probably "N/A" when DD record is "off".

/steve


----------



## finaldiet

sluciani said:


> Watched the Mets last night on FOX OTA and i experienced one long audio dropout (about 10-15 seconds) at the beginning of the 6th or 7th inning, I believe. Unfortunately, I didn't have FOX SAT on the other tuner as a control.
> 
> /steve


Had same audio drop-out on OTA 32-1, Chicago channel at about same time.


----------



## sluciani

finaldiet said:


> Had same audio drop-out on OTA 32-1, Chicago channel at about same time.


Interesting. So we know it's not random. More prrof that it's probably the "splicer" glitch issue explained earlier in this thread.

/steve


----------



## mdh333

I was watching the baseball game too, and am not sure of the exact inning, but did experience a couple long dropouts. Probably around then, as it was after 10pm (eastern) as Lost was over and I had the 2nd tuner on Fox Sat.

Fox OTA/HD had the dropout

Fox local SD/Sat did NOT have the dropout

I have experienced some of these dropouts on both of my HR10-250s, both of which connect to TV via HDMI. Neither is using DD5.1.

Are there any workarounds that people have found? Different connections/settings/etc?


----------



## stiffi

FYI,

I am now getting audio dropout on EVERYTHING OTA. 

I get them on my HR10-250, and my SIR-TS160 receiver.

I have to think it's either something inherent in the OTA broadcast, or else it's something in ALL directv software, tivo or not.

Just so you know, my HR10-250 is wired with a CM 4221 antenna and run through my home theater receiver with optical.

The SIR-TS160 is not wired to the home theater, but uses the same CM 4221 OTA feed.


----------



## bwaldron

stiffi said:


> I have to think it's either something inherent in the OTA broadcast, or else it's something in ALL directv software, tivo or not.


It's an interaction between something in the (new) code and something in the broadcasts.

I've reverted to 3.1, and OTA reception was flawless last evening for the entire baseball game on FOX and for Criminal Minds recorded off CBS OTA. So not _all_ software is having the problem.


----------



## stiffi

bwaldron said:


> It's an interaction between something in the (new) code and something in the broadcasts.
> 
> I've reverted to 3.1, and OTA reception was flawless last evening for the entire baseball game on FOX and for Criminal Minds recorded off CBS OTA. So not _all_ software is having the problem.


Why is my Samsung SIR-TS160 having problems? There's no Tivo software in there at all.


----------



## videojanitor

stiffi said:


> Why is my Samsung SIR-TS160 having problems? There's no Tivo software in there at all.


When did your Samsung start having problems? The dropouts on the HR10-250 coincide precisely with the 6.3 software rollout -- since that doesn't affect your Samsung, and nothing has been changed on the broadcast end, I'm certain it is unrelated.


----------



## JoeCraw

Add me to the list of users having audio dropouts after 6.3a.

I was watching last night's Mets/Card game on OTA Fox HD.
I have Tivo set to output DD and it is connect to my receiver with an optical cable.
There was 4 or 5 6-10 seconds audio dropouts with video continuing.
Each time this happend, when the audio returned, there was a flash of pixelization.


----------



## Seminole

I wish someone at Fox, Tivo, or [email protected] would hurry up and fix this problem it is very annoying. This just pushes me 1 step closer to FIOS in the 1st 1/4 when it is available in my area.


----------



## merlin803

Those of us that plan to watch the game tonight should note the exact time/inning/batter when the drop outs occur to see if they happen for everyone at the same time.


----------



## stiffi

videojanitor said:


> When did your Samsung start having problems? The dropouts on the HR10-250 coincide precisely with the 6.3 software rollout -- since that doesn't affect your Samsung, and nothing has been changed on the broadcast end, I'm certain it is unrelated.


First problem I noticed was last night. I know it was the OTA, but I can't remember what I was watching. I think it was ABC.


----------



## videojanitor

merlin803 said:


> Those of us that plan to watch the game tonight should note the exact time/inning/batter when the drop outs occur to see if they happen for everyone at the same time.


That is an excellent idea. I hope some people will follow up on that. My gut tells me that it will happen at different times, as it seems to be some kind of buffer overflow problem, and it just depends on when it happens to get full. This kind of community comparison though would definitely go a long way towards getting a bead on this.


----------



## BlankMan

Got 6.3a with Tuesday afternoons call (53219), recorded Boston Legal OTA that night, watched it Wednesday, audio drop out half way through. Folders are nice now but *not* nice enough to make up for the loss of audio....


----------



## bwaldron

BlankMan said:


> Got 6.3a with Tuesday afternoons call (53219), recorded Boston Legal OTA that night, watched it Wednesday, audio drop out half way through. Folders are nice now but *not* nice enough to make up for the loss of audio....


I'm with ya.


----------



## chris_h

merlin803 said:


> Those of us that plan to watch the game tonight should note the exact time/inning/batter when the drop outs occur to see if they happen for everyone at the same time.


That is a great idea. I would go one step further. Note even more details, such as: the count was "X balls, X strikes" and the last audio I heard was the anouncer saying "that batter is..." I really think you might be able to get the drops to corespond to the second that way, not just the batter. This assumes that the dropout timing will match for different users, which I think is a long shot. Either way, I think it is a good data point.

If I still had 6.3, I would even watch baseball just to pitch in!


----------



## videojanitor

I think I will start a thread just for this ...


----------



## lxkatze1

Any news from Directv when the fix is coming? I was lucky enough to read this forum and did disconect the phone line until I hear that the upgrade is free of the problems mentioned above.


----------



## Cheezmo

merlin803 said:


> Those of us that plan to watch the game tonight should note the exact time/inning/batter when the drop outs occur to see if they happen for everyone at the same time.


I've already tested this with two HD Tivo's watching the same show. The dropouts do not occur at the same time, but the log entries to look the same (same audio buffer overrun type messages). There is an interesting pattern where two dropouts often happen 1 minute and 5 seconds apart, but commercial breaks, reception problems, etc., break the flow and different receivers will overflow at different times.


----------



## sluciani

Seminole said:


> I wish someone at Fox, Tivo, or [email protected] would hurry up and fix this problem it is very annoying. This just pushes me 1 step closer to FIOS in the 1st 1/4 when it is available in my area.


If it's just happening with FOX OTA, and not ABC, CBS or NBC OTA, is it reasonable to assume that Fox is doing something non-standard and should be the one to address the problem? 6.3 may just have exposed a flaw that's been there all along, assujing there are no 3.15f users also experiencing these long audio dropouts on FOX OTA.

/steve


----------



## desulliv

sluciani said:


> If it's just happening with FOX OTA, and not ABC, CBS or NBC OTA, is it reasonable to assume that Fox is doing something non-standard and should be the one to address the problem? 6.3 may just have exposed a flaw that's been there all along, assujing there are no 3.15f users also experiencing these long audio dropouts on FOX OTA.
> 
> /steve


I posted this before, but I get the audio dropouts on FOX OTA and CBS OTA. There was one incident on Studio 60 on NBC OTA. The pattern is the same: 5-10 seconds of no audio and a flash of pixelation before return of audio.


----------



## rexjak

bwaldron said:


> I've reverted to 3.1, and OTA reception was flawless last evening for the entire baseball game on FOX and for Criminal Minds recorded off CBS OTA. So not _all_ software is having the problem.


how do you revert?!!


----------



## ddix

My started dropping out immediately after the software upgrade.


----------



## mst3k

I got my upgrade yesterday. Running Dolby Digital mode not PCM. My menus are quick as a wink, picture is awesome and no audio dropouts. I have 6.3a and no probs to report.


----------



## bwaldron

rexjak said:


> how do you revert?!!


I restored a backup image that I had made when I upgraded my unit to a larger drive.


----------



## bwaldron

mst3k said:


> I got my upgrade yesterday. Running Dolby Digital mode not PCM. My menus are quick as a wink, picture is awesome and no audio dropouts. I have 6.3a and no probs to report.


Do you watch a lot of OTA...especially FOX?

Glad it's working for you, and hope it stays that way. But the upgrade clearly has some issues that are impacting many folks.


----------



## thumperxr69

ddix said:


> My started dropping out immediately after the software upgrade.


Mine too.


----------



## Lije Baley

After this thread started, I disconnected the phone line to both HR-10s. Now, the inevitable nag screen is appearing. D* has its nerve.


----------



## mst3k

bwaldron said:


> Do you watch a lot of OTA...especially FOX?
> 
> Glad it's working for you, and hope it stays that way. But the upgrade clearly has some issues that are impacting many folks.


Admittedly I watch NO OTA. I get everything from satellite. I live on the back side of a hill and can't get OTA.


----------



## chris_h

mst3k said:


> Admittedly I watch NO OTA. I get everything from satellite. I live on the back side of a hill and can't get OTA.


That's a great idea! Each 6.3 install should come with a hill included. Cool!


----------



## bwaldron

mst3k said:


> Admittedly I watch NO OTA. I get everything from satellite. I live on the back side of a hill and can't get OTA.


Well, then, the problem that is being discussed in this thread should not impact you.


----------



## bryhart

6.3a Issues: audio dropouts & spontaneous reboots

FWIW:
Called D*and eventually (2 transfers) got to someone who sounded familiar with the problems. The tech said they were aware of the issues and they were working with Tivo to get this resolved. After speaking with him for a few minutes, I asked if he had any insider info on an approx. date for a fix. He responded with "looks like November or December." Based on my previous discussions with D* staff, I wouldn't put much faith in this...but it is the first estimate I have heard/seen anywhere so I thought I would post.


----------



## videojanitor

"November" I could believe -- that's less than two weeks from now. But "December?" That would seem to be a little outrageous, given the widespread (and annoying) nature of this problem.


----------



## Lee L

I had one or 2 issues with CBS last night and also this AM while I was watching the local (WRAL) news OTA, so it is more than just Fox and apparently more than just national originated programs.


----------



## BGLeduc

Well, I may the dreaded 6.3a audio drop out problem.

I watched the last hour or so of the baseball game last evening. Audio was solid. I surfed around a bit, and went back to Fox to catch the news (10pm MST, Midnight EST), but they were still doing the post game interviews. Out of the blue, the sound went dead silent for well over 10 seconds. WTF?

I can say with 100% certainty that I have not seen that before (have had the HD Tivo for close to two years), and I have watched a lot of NASCAR races on Fox, so I would have noticed. 

I did not think to rewind and see if it was recorded that way or not. I do note that I did not lose Dolby Digital lock when it happened (my AVR shows Dolby Digital 5.1 on the display when it gets or re-acquires lock).

We have watched a lot of recorded OTA content since I finally got 6.3 on 10/18, and have not noted any issue with that. We only have one Fox show scheduled for Tivo (House) so we will pay close attention when watching that.

Brian


----------



## bwaldron

BGLeduc said:


> Well, I may the dreaded 6.3a audio drop out problem.
> 
> I watched the last hour or so of the baseball game last evening. Audio was solid. I surfed around a bit, and went back to Fox to catch the news (10pm MST, Midnight EST), but they were still doing the post game interviews. Out of the blue, the sound went dead silent for well over 10 seconds. WTF?
> 
> I can say with 100% certainty that I have not seen that before (have had the HD Tivo for close to two years), and I have watched a lot of NASCAR races on Fox, so I would have noticed.
> 
> I did not think to rewind and see if it was recorded that way or not. I do note that I did not lose Dolby Digital lock when it happened (my AVR shows Dolby Digital 5.1 on the display when it gets or re-acquires lock).
> 
> We have watched a lot of recorded OTA content since I finally got 6.3 on 10/18, and have not noted any issue with that. We only have one Fox show scheduled for Tivo (House) so we will pay close attention when watching that.
> 
> Brian


That sounds like the 6.3 problem...8-10 secs of no audio (with brief video pixellation upon return).

When I was running 6.3a I saw it only on FOX...which, unfortunately as a baseball fan I was watching much more than usual. (I do watch House and NFL on FOX, and that's about it for me.)

Hopefully a fix is developed and delivered soon. After all, News Corp doesn't want us to avoid watching FOX, do they?


----------



## PJO1966

I experienced my first CBS 30 second audio dropout during Jericho. Add it to the list of ABC & FOX. Still no long dropouts on NBC.


----------



## videojanitor

As I documented earlier in this thread, I found that when my local FOX station bypasses the network splicer, the dropout problem goes away. Using a FusionHDTV card, I was able to capture two ATSC transport streams -- one with the splicer in line, and one with it out. If there's anyone out there that is adept at analyzing streams, perhaps I could send you these files and you could see what differences there are between them?

With my uneducated eye (using TSReader Lite), the only big difference I see right off the bat is in the Elementary Stream PID 49 (0x0031):

With the splicer in line, it says "MPEG Video: Bitrate 19.000 Mbps"

With it bypassed, it says: "MPEG Video: Bitrate 13.450 Mbps"

Not sure if that is significant or not, but the rate displayed in "bypass" is in the ballpark for what is being sent out, while the rate displayed when it's in-line is way too high. It lists that, plus another 4.5 Mpbs for the subchannel, which exceeds the available number of bits.

If anyone wants to take a look at this files, send me a PM. They may hold the key to this situation.


----------



## sluciani

videojanitor said:


> With the splicer in line, it says "MPEG Video: Bitrate 19.000 Mbps"
> 
> With it bypassed, it says: "MPEG Video: Bitrate 13.450 Mbps"


Your findings lend more credence to my own gut feeling that 6.3a consumes more memory and or processing power and that, as a result, the hardware may, at times, have difficulty processing the extra data from an uncompressed OTA signal vs. a compressed D* signal of the same broadcast.

For the same reason, I wouldn't be surpried to learn that it's not a coincidence that DirecTV's HR10-250 replacement, the HR20-700 DVR, has not enabled its OTA capability.

Taking my speculation one step further, if audio dropouts are the reason the HR20 hasn't enabled OTA yet, and audio dropouts were not a problem on the HR10 platform under 3.15f, then the HR20's CPU and/or memory is either no better than the HR10's, which would be surprising, or the h/w is better and the HR20's programming is poorer than the HR10's.

Makes me appreciate the HR10 more than I thought.

/steve


----------



## annenoe

Can anyone confirm or deny that if we don't use Dolby, we will not have dropouts?

I have unplugged my box to avoid update but wondering if it's safe to upgrade as long as I don't use Dolby. I'm willing to wait but if this is all about Dolby, then I'd be happy turning that off until next update.


----------



## GadgetJunkies

annenoe said:


> Can anyone confirm or deny that if we don't use Dolby, we will not have dropouts?
> 
> I have unplugged my box to avoid update but wondering if it's safe to upgrade as long as I don't use Dolby. I'm willing to wait but if this is all about Dolby, then I'd be happy turning that off until next update.


I just posted a thread about this. I called DTV and talked to advanced tech support and they had me switch to standard audio and I have had no dropouts since. They also gave me 4 months free on my HD package and 3 months of Showtime free for my troubles.


----------



## sluciani

annenoe said:


> Can anyone confirm or deny that if we don't use Dolby, we will not have dropouts?
> 
> I have unplugged my box to avoid update but wondering if it's safe to upgrade as long as I don't use Dolby. I'm willing to wait but if this is all about Dolby, then I'd be happy turning that off until next update.


I am not recording or outputting Dolby Digital on my bedroom HR10 and I still got a long audio dropout on FOX OTA the other night. The audio is being fed to the display via HDMI, however.

If *GadjetJunkies * solved his problem by using standard audio cables, perhaps the problem isn't with Dolby Digital, but with PCM digital.

/steve


----------



## GadgetJunkies

sluciani said:


> I am not recording or outputting Dolby Digital on my bedroom HR10 and I still got a long audio dropout on FOX OTA the other night. The audio is being fed to the display via HDMI, however.
> 
> If *GadjetJunkies * solved his problem by using standard audio cables, perhaps the problem isn't with Dolby Digital, but with PCM digital.
> 
> /steve


I'm using HDMI as well. All I did was go into the Settings menu and changed the setting to record in standard audio from DD. I am also using a 4228 OTA antenna and use it to record most everything. I made the audio settings change 3 days ago and have not had one dropout on shows that I have watched. I will say though that I have not viewed all my recordings as of yet.


----------



## josejrp

Well, yeah, if you don't record the Dolby Digital stream, then the dropouts may not happen. But digital 5.1 sound is a pretty important feature of HD programming...


----------



## josejrp

A while back, somebody mentioned that after a Clear & Delete the dropouts stopped happening... has anybody else tried this? I wouldn't think it would matter, but...


----------



## GadgetJunkies

josejrp said:


> Well, yeah, if you don't record the Dolby Digital stream, then the dropouts may not happen. *But digital 5.1 sound is a pretty important feature of HD programming*...


Not if you can't hear it.


----------



## steven-h

josejrp said:


> A while back, somebody mentioned that after a Clear & Delete the dropouts stopped happening... has anybody else tried this? I wouldn't think it would matter, but...


I was asked to do Clean & Delete by Direct and I have not had a dropout since a week ago Thursday when I did it. I have not watched as much Fox since I am not a baseball fan, however, I also had dropouts on my local ABC station and have had none there at all with much viewing. I have watched some baseball and experienced no dropouts during that time. So far other than loosing my recorded programs I am a happy camper.


----------



## sluciani

GadgetJunkies said:


> I'm using HDMI as well. All I did was go into the Settings menu and changed the setting to record in standard audio from DD. I am also using a 4228 OTA antenna and use it to record most everything. I made the audio settings change 3 days ago and have not had one dropout on shows that I have watched. I will say though that I have not viewed all my recordings as of yet.


Guess you've just been lucky in your choice of shows. I can confirm the dropouts still occur with the same set-up as yours. Standard audio via HDMI. Happened twice watching the Mets-Cards playoffs on FOX OTA on two different nights.

The only time I've ever noticed dropouts is with FOX OTA, by the way.

/steve


----------



## videojanitor

annenoe said:


> Can anyone confirm or deny that if we don't use Dolby, we will not have dropouts?


I never used Dolby Digital, and got the dropouts. Because the picture also breaks up during the dropout event, it's got to have something to do with the way it processes/records the ATSC stream, hence I would expect to hear it no matter what audio mode was being used.


----------



## BGLeduc

josejrp said:


> Well, yeah, if you don't record the Dolby Digital stream, then the dropouts may not happen. But digital 5.1 sound is a pretty important feature of HD programming...


I am not sure that it works that way, but will be happy to stand down if someone has better information.

I would expect that you are _always_ recording the DD stream. In fact, ALL digital broadcasts, HD or not, have their audio encoded in DD; the difference is that some are in 2CH (my local CBS affiliate), while some are in full DD 5.1.

By choosing the DD->PCM option, you simply tell the HR10 to downmix from DD to PCM so it can be output via optical to a decoder or other device that does not support DD.

And in fact, if you are using the stereo analog outs, there already is DD to 2CH _analog_ (albeit Pro Logic compatible) conversion that happens automatically.

Its really should be no different than a DVD player. If you are using a digital out but your receiver lacks the ability to decode DD (or DTS in the case of a DVD player), you turn on the PCM downmix option.

At present, I have observed one single drop out that occurred during the post game interviews after the final NLCS game on Fox. I only got 6.3 on 10/18, and have not watched much TV since then, but I can also say with 100% certainty that prior to the 6.3 upgrade, I had never experienced a drop out of that type.

Brian


----------



## GadgetJunkies

steven-h said:


> I was asked to do Clean & Delete by Direct and I have not had a dropout since a week ago Thursday when I did it. I have not watched as much Fox since I am not a baseball fan, however, I also had dropouts on my local ABC station and have had none there at all with much viewing. I have watched some baseball and experienced no dropouts during that time. So far other than loosing my recorded programs I am a happy camper.


I too was asked to do a Clean & Delete and I still had the audio dropouts. Picture was clear but no audio.


----------



## Kacky

....   What's a Clean & Delete?


----------



## sluciani

BGLeduc said:


> I am not sure that it works that way, but will be happy to stand down if someone has better information.
> 
> I would expect that you are _always_ recording the DD stream. In fact, ALL digital broadcasts, HD or not, have their audio encoded in DD; the difference is that some are in 2CH (my local CBS affiliate), while some are in full DD 5.1.
> 
> By choosing the DD->PCM option, you simply tell the HR10 to downmix from DD to PCM so it can be output via optical to a decoder or other device that does not support DD.
> 
> And in fact, if you are using the stereo analog outs, there already is DD to 2CH _analog_ (albeit Pro Logic compatible) conversion that happens automatically.
> 
> Its really should be no different than a DVD player. If you are using a digital out but your receiver lacks the ability to decode DD (or DTS in the case of a DVD player), you turn on the PCM downmix option.
> 
> At present, I have observed one single drop out that occurred during the post game interviews after the final NLCS game on Fox. I only got 6.3 on 10/18, and have not watched much TV since then, but I can also say with 100% certainty that prior to the 6.3 upgrade, I had never experienced a drop out of that type.
> 
> Brian


If DD HD shows are recorded like DD DVD's, which I believe to be the case, there's both a 5.1 audio file and a 2 channel LPCM file attached to the video, and the DD "record" preference tells the HR-10 which one to record. (Those with TivoWeb installed can check file sizes to see if there's a difference recording DD or not.)

If DD was always recorded, there wouldn't be a need for separate preference settings for both recording it and outputting it. If it always recorded DD, only the output preference would be necessary.

/steve


----------



## steven-h

Kacky said:


> ....   What's a Clean & Delete?


Clean and Delete can be activated by going into the menu, messages and settings, restart or reset system, then clean and delete. It formats the hard drive and clears all settings. It takes about an hour and then you must setup your system as if it were new out of the box.


----------



## BGLeduc

sluciani said:


> If DD HD shows are recorded like DD DVD's, which I believe to be the case, there's both a 5.1 audio file and a 2 channel LPCM file attached to the video, and the DD "record" preference tells the HR-10 which one to record. (Those with TivoWeb installed can check file sizes to see if there's a difference recording DD or not.)
> 
> If DD was always recorded, there wouldn't be a need for separate preference settings for both recording it and outputting it. If it always recorded DD, only the output preference would be necessary.
> 
> /steve


Interesting, info Steve.

I had not even noticed that there was a separate recording choice in the menu. Guess I need to spend a bit more time in front of the TV with the Tivo remote in hand 

Having said that, I still question the thought that there is, or even needs to be, a separate 2CH PCM mix in the OTA stream.

All DD decoders MUST be able to downmix to 2CH. As such, why would there need to be a PCM mix in the broadcast, as it would be redundant?

Time for a bit more research om my part.

Brian


----------



## jginaz

sluciani said:


> If DD HD shows are recorded like DD DVD's, which I believe to be the case, there's both a 5.1 audio file and a 2 channel LPCM file attached to the video, and the DD "record" preference tells the HR-10 which one to record. (Those with TivoWeb installed can check file sizes to see if there's a difference recording DD or not.)
> 
> If DD was always recorded, there wouldn't be a need for separate preference settings for both recording it and outputting it. If it always recorded DD, only the output preference would be necessary.
> 
> /steve


here is a TSReader Lite output for Fox in my area:
Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 49 (0x0031)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 19.000 Mbps Resolution 1280 x 720p
MPEG Video: Framerate 59.94 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
Descriptor: Video Stream Descriptor
Multiple frame rate flag: False
Frame rate: 29.97¼
MPEG-1 only flag: False
Constrained paramter flag: True
Still picture flag: False
Descriptor: Stream Indentifier Descriptor
04 . 
Descriptor: Maximum Bitrate Descriptor
Maximum bitrate: 1921300 bytes per second
Descriptor: Data Stream Alignment Descriptor
Alignment type: video access unit
Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0x86
e1 65 6e 67 c1 3f ff .eng.?.

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 52 (0x0034)
AC3: Bitrate 448 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 3/2 5 L, C, R, SL, SR
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x41432d33 (AC-3)
Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0x81
08 3c 05 .<. 
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: eng
Audio type: undefined
Descriptor: Stream Indentifier Descriptor
8e . 
Descriptor: Maximum Bitrate Descriptor
Maximum bitrate: 62950 bytes per second

As you can see there are not two streams.

JG


----------



## Budget_HT

sluciani said:


> If DD HD shows are recorded like DD DVD's, which I believe to be the case, there's both a 5.1 audio file and a 2 channel LPCM file attached to the video, and the DD "record" preference tells the HR-10 which one to record. (Those with TivoWeb installed can check file sizes to see if there's a difference recording DD or not.)
> 
> If DD was always recorded, there wouldn't be a need for separate preference settings for both recording it and outputting it. If it always recorded DD, only the output preference would be necessary.
> 
> /steve


It has been a while since I read up on the ATSC standards, but I clearly recall that the only audio being sent is Dolby Digital, no LPCM audio is sent in the broadcast stream. The DD can be 5.1 (best of course), 2.0 (common for stations without current encoder equipment), even 1.0 is allowed but I have never seen it.

The part that is like DVD is in the DTV receiver or A/V receiver or a DVD player. All of these can include downmix capabilities to convert DD 5.1 to Dolby Pro Logic or plain stereo, either via LPCM digital output or L+R analog audio output.


----------



## sluciani

jginaz said:


> As you can see there are not two streams.


So why is there a Tivo audio preference to record DD or not?

EDIT: A little Googling may have provided the answer to my own question. I believe that preference should really read "record 5.1 or 2.0 channels of audio", rather than simply "DD or not".

It appears all HDTV audio is encoded to a standard called A/52, which uses AC-3 algorithms for encoding and decoding. AC3 provides for the encoding of up to 5.1 audio streams, so I'm guessing that preference tells the AC3 encoder whether to write 5.1 or 2.0 to the disk at the time the file is captured, rather than always write 5.1 to the disk and then convert to 2.0 afterwards. I suppose doing it this way provides a more efficient use of disk space for those that don't need 5.1?

/steve


----------



## whsbuss

Well what I've done for today's Eagles game is to leave Fox OTA 29-1 on one of the buffers. Since last night's world series I have not yet had any dropouts. Watched all of Fox News Sunday and it was perfect (although I did see a few audio sync problems but no dropouts).

I hope the game records without issues so I can record it on DVD. Gotta be a sync issue as I have tried with and w/o recording DD options.


----------



## steven-h

Last night while watching Harry Potter on ABC HD over the air I had the 20 -30 sec audio dropout then picture breakup. This was after I did a complete reformat last Thursday at Direct TVs request. I will report this back to Direct. I just hope all the folks posting here are calling Direct. We must make this wheel squeak a lot and push Direct into action.


----------



## Budget_HT

I called in and reported my reboots and audio dropouts. But what an experience!

I simply wanted to go on record with a trouble report to add to the growing list. The CSR insisted on trying to troubleshoot this problem for me. I explained my awareness and the that the problem is experienced by many other folks reporting in here at the forum, and that the only fix will be a software release to fix the root cause. It took me 15 minutes to convince her to just enter a report. Then she insisted on talking to her supervisor who wanted to start all over again.

I forgot to ask to be transferred to the TiVo specialists. I won't forget again!


----------



## videojanitor

Budget_HT said:


> I called in and reported my reboots and audio dropouts. But what an experience!


Same thing happened to me. Pretty obvious these people are just reading from scripts, and can't process the information you give them. I also sent a detailed email, and in it, I begged them to PLEASE not send a boilerplate response. Guess what I got? A boilerplate response. "Many problems can be solved by a simple system reset."

The only thing I really want to know about this problem is:

1. Are the people who write the software AWARE of it?

2. If so, are they WORKING on a fix?

Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible to get answers. A real answer -- not just something from a random CSR.


----------



## GadgetJunkies

Watching Fox SD 19 today and all of a sudden the screen went black like the television was not receiving anything from the HR10. Nothing would come up. Did a reboot and everything came back. This is getting ridiculous.


----------



## Herb S.

I have reported to D* the audio dropout problem. They said they were aware of the problem. My temporary solution is go back to 3.1 till the problems with 6.3A are cleared up. Suggestion to the moderators, how about combining all the different threads about dropouts into one thread. 

Herb


----------



## videojanitor

Herb S. said:


> I have reported to D* the audio dropout problem. They said they were aware of the problem. My temporary solution is go back to 3.1 till the problems with 6.3A are cleared up.


Hopefully the person who told you that was telling the truth. At this point, it would be hard to believe that they're not aware of it. Like you, I went back to 3.1 and will wait it out. Now I have to deal with occasional nag screens pleading with me to make a phone call. I will -- as soon as they fix this! Not sure how often these screens will appear ...


----------



## crwmlw

How do you go back to 3.1


----------



## Cody21

Yep - precisely the issue I'm now seeing after receive 6.3a last Friday morning. Never NEVER had this Audio drop-out issue until then (have had unit well over 2 years). And I get some wierd pixellation (about 2 secs. worth) when the Audio comes back on. Happens quite a bit on FOX OTA .. Sucks to be us ... again... still ....



bwaldron said:


> That sounds like the 6.3 problem...8-10 secs of no audio (with brief video pixellation upon return).
> 
> When I was running 6.3a I saw it only on FOX...which, unfortunately as a baseball fan I was watching much more than usual. (I do watch House and NFL on FOX, and that's about it for me.)
> 
> Hopefully a fix is developed and delivered soon. After all, News Corp doesn't want us to avoid watching FOX, do they?


----------



## Mr. Bill

As posted on another thread, in addition to the audio drops on D* FOX HD ch 88,, I also get a less-than-1/2-sec, very low, 'static hum' burst from my Denon 3801 AVR when changing channels from one DD station to another. 

It did not exist before and goes away when 'DD to PCM' is enabled instead. :down: 

I'm calling D* this morning -- got 6.3a Sat. night.


----------



## IdaTex

I got upgraded to 6.3a last week and started having 10 second drops on Fox OTA. Yesterday I got it watching football so I switched over to the Sunday Ticket HD feed (channel 719) of the same game and did not have any dropouts at all. When I switched back to the baseball game they were back.

I have only noticed this on Fox OTA so far. I think I might have noticed one on NBC last night but it might have been part of the show. I watched 2 hours of recorded NBC last week after the upgrade and no problems at all. I didn't notice any issues with ABC either but I might not have had the upgrade yet. I will know this Wednesday.

I also get the static pop when switching between tuners or changing channels. The horrible audio/video dropouts I was experiencing on ESPN HD (73) have disappeared since the upgrade but they have always come and gone.


----------



## chris_h

crwmlw said:


> How do you go back to 3.1


You have to pull out your hard drive(s) and put the old image on them. Some folks use the instant cake CD, or an image that they saved for backup purposes. See the upgrade and/or underground forums for more details.


----------



## Charlutz

+1 to the list of audio dropouts on OTA signals post 6.3a.


----------



## Herb S.

Crwmlw, I guess I was not clear regarding 3.1; what I suggested to D* that they go back to 3.1. Not having a hacked unit I don't know of a way to go back 3.1 without D* downloading it.


----------



## jcricket

Or they can just release a 6.3b with the audio dropouts fixed.

Cue conspiracy theorists about how 6.3 is a ploy to get us all to switch to HR20s.


----------



## fasTLane

That has already been worked on some threads.


----------



## jhimmel

Got 6.3a on the 20th, got the 8 second audio dropout on the 22 - while watching a recorded CBS OTA show. NEVER had such a thing happen to me with 3.1. I assume I am in for more of the same.

Hope they get a fix for us. If not - I am leaning more and more towards FIOS. It's just the multiple $700 S3's that I would need holding me back right now.

I get DTV NY feeds of some HD networks, but typically use the OTA anyway. Do the DTV HD network feeds get the audio droppouts too?


----------



## RonH54

Are these Audio drops just found on OTA channels? I just received update last night(10-22/23) and I don't receive any OTA channels since I am so far from my Locals. I do receive Network HD feeds from NYC, so I just wondering should possibly see any audio drops? I use my Stereo receiver for surround sound.


----------



## EMoMoney

RonH54 said:


> Are these Audio drops just found on OTA channels? I just received update last night(10-22/23) and I don't receive any OTA channels since I am so far from my Locals. I do receive Network HD feeds from NYC, so I just wondering should possibly see any audio drops? I use my Stereo receiver for surround sound.


I have noticed them on 80 (CBS) and ESPN HD, but very few. The majority are on the OTAs and mostly on FOX.


----------



## WhyMe

Just got 6.3a Sunday, Monday night I am getting Audio Dropouts. Thankfully I just put my hacked drive back in will 3.1.5f.....I think I will wait this time till its fixed....


----------



## Smiles

I'm experiencing the wonderful world of audio dropouts with 6.3a as well. All OTA AFAIK. I did notice that the audio would frequently kick back in after a (small) video glitch, as if it got a full frame and everything resynched. I appreciate the improvements in 6.3a, but losing audio was a major oversight.


----------



## hybucket

Ive been away for over a week - i come back and see that nothing has changed - amazing!!!


----------



## stiffi

jcricket said:


> Or they can just release a 6.3b with the audio dropouts fixed.
> 
> Cue conspiracy theorists about how 6.3 is a ploy to get us all to switch to HR20s.


There are reports around the board that CSRs are telling people.

1. They don't have any HR20 units
2. They are discouraging people from getting HR20 units due to the bugs.


----------



## hpb

When my 6.3a TiVo has the audio dropout problem it registers this error on the console from the serial port.

"Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full."

Then there are four messages:

"video stop --> SUCCESS"
"audio stop --> SUCCESS"
"ausio restart --> SUCCESS"
"video restart --> SUCCESS"

Immediately the sound returns.

It has NOTHING to due with DD 5.1 vs. PCM.

The audio data stream in the OTA signal is overflowing a buffer in the tivoapp software. TiVo will need to adjust some settings to prevent the problem. DirecTV will be clueless and will have to wait for the fix from TiVo. The data stream from the satellites is probably at a slower rate than OTA signal so we are only seeing the problem with the OTA signal


----------



## bpratt

I received 6.3a a little over a week ago. Two days before 6.3 installed, I did a "clear and delete everything" because my unit was slow. When 6.3a installed there were two recorded shows from 3.1, both of which played without problems. Since then we have watched about 30+ hours of recorded shows and only two (one CBS and one NBC) recorded the first night have had the 8 to 10 second audio dropouts.

Since then, everything has worked perfectly, however I have not recorded anything on FOX since receiving 6.3. No more audio dropouts, no partial recordings, no problems.

Has anyone tried a "clear and delete everything" after receiving 6.3 to see if it fixes the audio dropout problem?


----------



## steven-h

bpratt said:


> I received 6.3a a little over a week ago. Two days before 6.3 installed, I did a "clear and delete everything" because my unit was slow. When 6.3a installed there were two recorded shows from 3.1, both of which played without problems. Since then we have watched about 30+ hours of recorded shows and only two (one CBS and one NBC) recorded the first night have had the 8 to 10 second audio dropouts.
> 
> Since then, everything has worked perfectly, however I have not recorded anything on FOX since receiving 6.3. No more audio dropouts, no partial recordings, no problems.
> 
> Has anyone tried a "clear and delete everything" after receiving 6.3 to see if it fixes the audio dropout problem?


Yes I have completed a clear and delete everything since receiving the update. All appeared OK then the audio dropouts from over the air started and I have had one reboot.


----------



## kjnorman

I got my first audio drop since the upgrade to 6.3a while watching Heroes. Thankfully it has been my only drop in the week or so that the machine has been upgraded so I am not sure if it was a local issue or an upgrade issue. The drop seem to last a while, somewhere between 3 and 6 seconds if I had to guess.

Another annoying issue I have now that I did not have before is the way the Tivo handles transitions from prologic (analog) to dolby digital. Now, every time it changes it sends though a blast of static to my speakers. I do not like it.

I kinda wished I had back up the box now, so that I could restore it back to 3.1f(?) that I had before. I can accept slow menus and lack of folders for clean reliable audio.


----------



## kjnorman

hpb said:


> When my 6.3a TiVo has the audio dropout problem it registers this error on the console from the serial port.
> 
> "Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full."
> 
> Then there are four messages:
> 
> "video stop --> SUCCESS"
> "audio stop --> SUCCESS"
> "ausio restart --> SUCCESS"
> "video restart --> SUCCESS"
> 
> Immediately the sound returns.
> 
> It has NOTHING to due with DD 5.1 vs. PCM.
> 
> The audio data stream in the OTA signal is overflowing a buffer in the tivoapp software. TiVo will need to adjust some settings to prevent the problem. DirecTV will be clueless and will have to wait for the fix from TiVo. The data stream from the satellites is probably at a slower rate than OTA signal so we are only seeing the problem with the OTA signal


Its very good that you are able to log this. Have been be able to pass this information up the chain to Directv and Tivo so that they can follow this up?


----------



## dbett

jcricket said:


> Cue conspiracy theorists about how 6.3 is a ploy to get us all to switch to HR20s.


No, no.

It's actually a plot by Tivo and the Cable Companies to cripple the HD-DTivo boxes to get people to switch to cable and use the new Series 3 box.


----------



## newsposter

dang..had prison break dropouts..guess i move Fox OTA to tivo 2, thankfully unplugged


----------



## harley3k

dbett said:


> No, no.
> 
> It's actually a plot by Tivo and the Cable Companies to cripple the HD-DTivo boxes to get people to switch to cable and use the new Series 3 box.


I noticed my first audio drop-outs last night and it was pretty annoying.
I doubt there is a conspiracy, but I am moving to FIOS... The install is this Friday.

-h


----------



## kbohip

My wife had very long dropouts with Justice last night. There were 3 in the first 8 minutes and they lasted about 15 seconds each. Strangely enough we only had a 2 second dropout during Prison Break. I watched a couple of old Cops reruns on Fox ota and got major dropouts as well. Where's the fix Directv?

PS, I get the pixelation after the audio comes back on too.


----------



## kbohip

bpratt said:


> Has anyone tried a "clear and delete everything" after receiving 6.3 to see if it fixes the audio dropout problem?


I did a C&D to cure my constant rebooting problems. Luckily it fixed that but the audio dropouts remain and will NOT be fixed until Tivo or Dierctv or someone fixes it. Ie, 6.3b.


----------



## jediphish

Have posted before about my experiencing the 8-10 sec audio dropouts followed by video burp. I've been out of town for about a week, so just now watching the last week's programming.

While watching Ugly Betty from last Thursday (10/18) on OTA ABC 720p, I experienced the drop-outs, except that this time the drop-outs were only 2-3 seconds. The video burp/glitch would follow and the sound would be restored. It happened about 4 or 5 times during the hour (not counting commercials, which I skip through). I have not had my Tivo plugged into a phone line since I got 6.3a so this is not the result of any new software.

Has anyone else noticed that the audio drop-outs have gotten shorter in duration? I still have The Nine, Lost, Men In Trees, What About Brian and Desperate Housewives to watch so we'll see if the same thing happens. I actually have several eps of What About Brian, so I guess I'll see if there are any differences between the older and more recently recorded eps.

For the record, I don't record OTA Fox 720p, as I have access to the NY DNS feed, so I've only experienced the drops on ABC.


----------



## litzdog911

hpb said:


> When my 6.3a TiVo has the audio dropout problem it registers this error on the console from the serial port.
> 
> "Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full."
> 
> Then there are four messages:
> 
> "video stop --> SUCCESS"
> "audio stop --> SUCCESS"
> "ausio restart --> SUCCESS"
> "video restart --> SUCCESS"
> 
> Immediately the sound returns.
> 
> It has NOTHING to due with DD 5.1 vs. PCM.
> 
> The audio data stream in the OTA signal is overflowing a buffer in the tivoapp software. TiVo will need to adjust some settings to prevent the problem. DirecTV will be clueless and will have to wait for the fix from TiVo. The data stream from the satellites is probably at a slower rate than OTA signal so we are only seeing the problem with the OTA signal


Excellent info .... Please pass this information to DirecTV.

Also, I just checked the "Series 3 Tivo Forum" here and it seems that it does not have this problem. Hopefully this means that Tivo's software engineers can solve this problem in the HR10-250. And, of course, we know the problem didn't exist in the previous release.


----------



## toms111la

jediphish said:


> While watching Ugly Betty from last Thursday (10/18) on OTA ABC 720p, I experienced the drop-outs, except that this time the drop-outs were only 2-3 seconds. The video burp/glitch would follow and the sound would be restored. It happened about 4 or 5 times during the hour (not counting commercials, which I skip through). I have not had my Tivo plugged into a phone line since I got 6.3a so this is not the result of any new software.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that the audio drop-outs have gotten shorter in duration?


Yes. I have also had some of the shorter drops exactly as you describe. I should keep a log but I think they were also on NBC. I am continuing to get the long ones on both Fox and CBS. All OTA. We are learning to lip read! Do HD broadcasts have closed captioning? I might try to turn it on!


----------



## designr

Audio dropouts are gone... but add me to the list of complainers annoyed by the new POPPING&STATIC feature.


----------



## shanew1289

UGH, lost the EXACT LAST 8 seconds of the final out of Game 3 of the World Series. Missed everthing after that ball off the bat to after the out at first, from Rolen. UGH!

also my Logs show the same

Oct 25 03:38:50 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full. 
Oct 25 03:38:50 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN 
Oct 25 03:38:50 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 25 03:38:50 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 25 03:38:50 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 25 03:38:50 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


----------



## drew2k

I've had 6.3a for over a week, and today was the first time I heard audio popping. I was watching Nip/Tuck on FX, which is not in 5.1, but my receiver was set to output DD 5.1 when available. I am using optical cable to my AV receiver.


----------



## chris_h

toms111la said:


> Do HD broadcasts have closed captioning? I might try to turn it on!


Yes, most do. Some broadcasts have both standard (analogish) and digital captions. To turn them on is a 20 step macro (for me) on the HR10, as it is burried deep in the menu system.


----------



## ptr727

I decided to do a bit of research before I call tech support, and I found this thread, so here is my story...

I do not have any OTA channels, no indoor reception, only satellite.
I have dual inputs setup for a round dish.
I get my feed from a multi unit provider via a de-stacker and not directly from a dish.
I only receive one HD channel, CBS on 83 in LA area.
For audio I use an optic link to my AV receiver.

Before the 6.3a upgrade I had no problems.

After 6.3a...

Sometimes playback will stutter, both audio and video, a jerky motion, then play for a few seconds, then stutter, then play, etc. 
This does not sound like the 8s dropout talked about, but short stutter bursts.

Stuttering happens very often on my HD channel, but it does sometimes happen on other channels.

Once the playback stuttering starts, even live TV on HD or SD channels stutter.

When the stuttering starts the system becomes very sluggish, and even when I stop playback, and nothing is recording, the system will become very slow, this normally ends in the system rebooting spontaneously.

It seems that once something goes wrong, the system uses lots of CPU time, becomes sluggish, then crashes.

I tried changing 5.1 audio to stereo, made no difference.

That's my story


----------



## kbohip

ptr727 said:


> I decided to do a bit of research before I call tech support, and I found this thread, so here is my story...
> 
> I do not have any OTA channels, no indoor reception, only satellite.
> I have dual inputs setup for a round dish.
> I get my feed from a multi unit provider via a de-stacker and not directly from a dish.
> I only receive one HD channel, CBS on 83 in LA area.
> For audio I use an optic link to my AV receiver.
> 
> Before the 6.3a upgrade I had no problems.
> 
> After 6.3a...
> 
> Sometimes playback will stutter, both audio and video, a jerky motion, then play for a few seconds, then stutter, then play, etc.
> This does not sound like the 8s dropout talked about, but short stutter bursts.
> 
> Stuttering happens very often on my HD channel, but it does sometimes happen on other channels.
> 
> Once the playback stuttering starts, even live TV on HD or SD channels stutter.
> 
> When the stuttering starts the system becomes very sluggish, and even when I stop playback, and nothing is recording, the system will become very slow, this normally ends in the system rebooting spontaneously.
> 
> It seems that once something goes wrong, the system uses lots of CPU time, becomes sluggish, then crashes.
> 
> I tried changing 5.1 audio to stereo, made no difference.
> 
> That's my story


This sounds exactly like a dying hard drive. Try a clear and delete everything and if that doesn't work I'd put money on the hard drive.


----------



## luder

Is 6.3 only for hr10?


----------



## newsposter

jediphish said:


> Have posted before about my experiencing the 8-10 sec audio dropouts followed by video burp.


that's what happned to Justice this week....at least 4x so was a real PITA. I've had the occasional ota problem but this was perfect pic and no sound and no other network has it. So it's not ota. I've moved all fox passes to my 3.1 software machine. If this moves to other networks..ugh



designr said:


> Audio dropouts are gone... but add me to the list of complainers annoyed by the new POPPING&STATIC feature.


I've not kept up with the thread but think i got this on What about Brian this week. Had to kill the stereo and listen quietly it was so annoying. about 50 min in just like a speaker being buzzed with a blender.


----------



## bwaldron

luder said:


> Is 6.3 only for hr10?


Yes. It provides essentially the same functionality as 6.2 on the SD units.


----------



## String

Can anyone else confirm or debunk this. It appears to me, that I only get the dropouts when both tuners are on OTA channels.

Thanks


----------



## Bob_Newhart

These dropouts are defini................................... because of the way it is ........................... however, it can be done that way if she was ..................................................looked good. 

While watching the World Seri.............................................................................. happened at least ten times in only........................................ 

I hope that Direct TV will get this.................................................................... can only hope.


----------



## whsbuss

Bob_Newhart said:


> These dropouts are defini................................... because of the way it is ........................... however, it can be done that way if she was ..................................................looked good.
> 
> While watching the World Seri.............................................................................. happened at least ten times in only........................................
> 
> I hope that Direct TV will get this.................................................................... can only hope.


How good is this?? Great post!
Talking points when calling D* CSR


----------



## designr

Bob_Newhart said:


> These dropouts are defini................................... because of the way it is ........................... however, it can be done that way if she was ..................................................looked good.
> 
> While watching the World Seri.............................................................................. happened at least ten times in only........................................
> 
> I hope that Direct TV will get this.................................................................... can only hope.


Bit of clarification here... I had these audio drop-outs before the 6.3a upgrade but found that they only occurred if I let the hard drive get too full. Restarting didn't help - only reducing the storage down to less than about 15 hours and restarting. This supports what *hpb* and *shanew1289* found, "Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full."

I have not allowed my number of stored shows increase since the upgrade so I do not know if the audio drop-outs will return as I record and store more HD shows. The popping & static is new with the 6.3a upgrade - sort off - the popping did occur in the old system when switching between 5.1 audio and PCM. But, now with 6.3a it occurs frequently during normal 5.1 playback.

I was going to get some new, bigger hard drives after the upgrade but now maybe I should ask D*TV to send me a new, bigger hard drive 

btw: Is the new 6.3a hacked yet (I've haven't been staying current lately)? I want to network the box.

Can I say "hacked" on this board?


----------



## designr

String said:


> Can anyone else confirm or debunk this. It appears to me, that I only get the dropouts when both tuners are on OTA channels.
> 
> Thanks


I got the drop-outs on the old system and do NOT have OTA. Maybe I'll let my disk fill up and see if the drop-outs come back using 6.3a.


----------



## phox_mulder

Finally I got a few of the dropouts everyong else is experiencing.
Yay!  

Prison Break from 10-23, the first FOX program I've TiVo'd since I received 6.3a.

It wasn't bad, it was real bad.

I stopped counting after 10 of them.

8-10 second losses of audio, then the little glitch as it came back.

I have not seen them on CBS or NBC programming.
I've only watched one ABC program and did not experience them.
I have not seen them on SHO HD, the only satellite based channel I currently record via the HR10.

It's annoying, to say the least, but I think I can survive till they figure out a fix.
Closed Captioning (when it's working properly) is a good thing.


phox


----------



## jackbroker

We have 2 HR10-250 units. One is connected to an HDTV with HDMI and to a receiver via the optical output. One is connected to an HDTV via compoinent cables and to a receiver via optical. Neither has a "full" hard drive. Both are connected to an OTA antenna. Both have been tried on a dolby digital setting, and both have been tried PCM. Both have been reset.

It makes no difference what operating parameter we change, we still get the audio dropouts on both units, although they seem to do this on HD programs OTA. I cannot say they do not do this on programs from the satellite, but I haven't noticed it.

It seems that no one knows what causes this, and no one knows precisely when or how it occurs? I do know that changing to PCM did nothing, nor did routing power directly from the wall plug.

Both units had been trouble free until the software "upgrade."

Our fix is to change to Verizon FIOS next week and live with the puny hard drive problem with their DVRs.

DirecTV is seemingly a bunch of clueless idiot salesmen utterly bereft of even rudimentary customer service skills.


----------



## ptr727

kbohip said:


> This sounds exactly like a dying hard drive. Try a clear and delete everything and if that doesn't work I'd put money on the hard drive.


Are you sure, it was never a problem on 3.51f?
I'd hate to have to delete all my recorded shows I have yet to watch


----------



## newsposter

phox_mulder said:


> Finally I got a few of the dropouts everyong else is experiencing.
> Yay!
> 
> Prison Break from 10-23, the first FOX program I've TiVo'd since I received 6.3a.
> 
> It wasn't bad, it was real bad.
> 
> I stopped counting after 10 of them.
> 
> 8-10 second losses of audio, then the little glitch as it came back.


how come we all get different dropouts...do we all get the same stream? I only had maybe 2 dropouts for PB but had 4+ on justice...but nowhere near 10...even my wife's cursing 6.3 at times now...thankfully moved the fox SP to the 3.1 unit and hopefully that is a good solution for now.


----------



## jediphish

jediphish said:


> Have posted before about my experiencing the 8-10 sec audio dropouts followed by video burp. I've been out of town for about a week, so just now watching the last week's programming.
> 
> While watching Ugly Betty from last Thursday (10/18) on OTA ABC 720p, I experienced the drop-outs, except that this time the drop-outs were only 2-3 seconds. The video burp/glitch would follow and the sound would be restored. It happened about 4 or 5 times during the hour (not counting commercials, which I skip through). I have not had my Tivo plugged into a phone line since I got 6.3a so this is not the result of any new software.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that the audio drop-outs have gotten shorter in duration? I still have The Nine, Lost, Men In Trees, What About Brian and Desperate Housewives to watch so we'll see if the same thing happens. I actually have several eps of What About Brian, so I guess I'll see if there are any differences between the older and more recently recorded eps.
> 
> For the record, I don't record OTA Fox 720p, as I have access to the NY DNS feed, so I've only experienced the drops on ABC.


To follow up, last night I watched last week's episode of Men In Trees and had the same experience. About 10 times, the audio dropped out for about 2 seconds and then the video glitch occurred and then everything was normal. The drops were short enough that I didn't really miss any of the dialogue. It's definitely the same pattern as was happening with the 8-10 sec drop, except that its shorter. I will say that one time, the drop was longer (about 8 seconds), but the other 9 times it was only about 2 seconds.

I have to say that even though they are annoying, when the audio is only gone for a couple of seconds, it's not unbearable. It's almost like losing the OTA signal (except that I'm not losing the signal - it's definitely the audio drop pattern, everytime).

I'll report back when I watch Lost and The Nine.


----------



## steven-h

Well I have developed a new problem with 6.3a. Last night was the second time this has happened. My remote seems not to work however, I can go to the box and push the buttons and all works fine. If i put the remote right up to the eye on the receiver is works some time if I bring up the guide and push the ch down or up the menu starts scrolling and will not stop. I put in new batteries nothing changed. I have a universal remote also it does the same thing. The first time I pulled the plug and did a reset and all was well. Last night this would not fix it so I left i unplugged all night and it is working OK this morning. Am I the only one with this it never happened before 6.3a. I still have the audio drop outs on OTA Fox and ABC and I have had one reboot. I did a clear and delete everything a week ago today at D's suggestion. Another thing I have noticed is that if I do a clear thumbs and suggestions the suggestions are not erased.


----------



## Sir_winealot

ptr727 said:


> Are you sure, it was never a problem on 3.51f?
> I'd hate to have to delete all my recorded shows I have yet to watch


Try a "Clear program data and To Do List." It works just as well, and you won't lose any of your recorded shows.


----------



## kdonnel

Last night was the first time I watched Fox since getting 6.3a. I have the box set to record DD but output PCM. I have not had any dropouts until last night.

I was watching my local Fox station's news OTA when the sound just stopped. About 6-8 seconds later the picture pixelated and the sound came back. It continued doing that every 30 seconds or so.

I hope this stays isolated to Fox or they push out a fix soon.


----------



## Gweeto

I experienced the same last night. First time watching Fox OTA since 6.3a and was watching Prison Break. The first segment of the show had the audio dropouts and then after the first commerical break the problem went away. 

I am now a believer in the bug.


----------



## phox_mulder

newsposter said:


> how come we all get different dropouts...do we all get the same stream? I only had maybe 2 dropouts for PB but had 4+ on justice...but nowhere near 10


Since the problem seems to be buffer overrun, maybe the severity of the dropouts depends on what the other tuner is doing when recording FOX.
If the other tuner is dealing with a quick action/lots of sounds program, it slows the system down enough to make the one tuner more succeptable to buffer overrun, and vice-versa.

Recording a FOX program with it's known problems on one tuner inadverntantly affects whats being recorded on the other tuner.

Same thing would apply to watching said bad FOX recording while one or more of the tuners is recording something.

I think the worst case scenario would be watching a FOX recording,
tuner "A" recording a FOX program, tuner "B" buffering FOX live.
I think that would lead to a critical failure/reboot scenario.

phox


----------



## Herb S.

Audio dropouts occur even on live broadcats with Fox in my area, SE New Hampshire, 25.1 out of Boston.


----------



## chris_h

newsposter said:


> how come we all get different dropouts...do we all get the same stream? I only had maybe 2 dropouts for PB but had 4+ on justice...but nowhere near 10...even my wife's cursing 6.3 at times now...thankfully moved the fox SP to the 3.1 unit and hopefully that is a good solution for now.


I don't think all DMAs would necessarily get the exact same stream for a FOX network program due to the various affiliates possibly doing different stat-muxing for sub-channels. I don't know for sure, perhaps videojanitor can comment here.

But even for two HR10 users with 6.3a in the exact same DMA (getting the exact same stream) I think I could make an arguement for having different dropouts. This is mostly speculation on my part, and I don't know the HR10 architecture. But the buffers that are overflowing are likely in system memory, and I would speculate that they are overflowing because the OS can not service the HW interrupts/messages to restock memory buffers soon enough. I base this on the kernel log messages provided by other users. So a user who had a lightly loaded system (not recording anything on the other tuner, and "live" fits my definitioin of recording) is less likely to see dropouts. Put another way, they are more likely to see fewer dropouts.


----------



## joealtus

I got my first non-Fox audio dropout. I've been getting intermittent dropouts on Fox, 8 seconds or so of no audio, video pixelization, then back to normal.

I had the exact same thing happen on last night's Lost.


----------



## kdonnel

I also just got my first non FOX dropout.

TBS (local OTA in Atlanta) seems to be as predictable as FOX. They were occuring very often tonight.


----------



## ravedog

Gweeto said:


> I experienced the same last night. First time watching Fox OTA since 6.3a and was watching Prison Break. The first segment of the show had the audio dropouts and then after the first commerical break the problem went away.
> 
> I am now a believer in the bug.


So if you get the dropputs on Prison Break and both others here and I did as well, does that mean its the unit or Prison Break?


----------



## litzdog911

ravedog said:


> So if you get the dropputs on PB and someone else did here and I did as well with PB, does that mean its the unit or PB?


Huh?


----------



## videojanitor

chris_h said:


> I don't think all DMAs would necessarily get the exact same stream for a FOX network program due to the various affiliates possibly doing different stat-muxing for sub-channels. I don't know for sure, perhaps videojanitor can comment here.


With some exceptions, all stations that are taking a particular feed (ie: Eastern/Central, Pacific, etc.) are receiving the same stream. This is if we are talking about normal prime-time programming. Sometimes there are two HD streams running for the same time zone -- there may be some regionalizing going on -- but not often.

I have already determined that there isn't anything with the FOX feed per se that is causing the problem to rise to the surface, because it happens just as frequently during local programming. However, both network and local streams are passed through the splicer, and when that is bypassed, the dropouts stop -- at least on the one station I used for the test. Not sure exactly what this means, but it is 100% repeatable, so it must mean something.

As for any stat-muxing, during network programming, the splicer ensures that the network stream passes without being shaved. If the network feed needs more bits, it steals them away from the subchannel. The subchannel can never take anything away from the net feed.


----------



## dthreet

think everyone. there prob be a patch. don't give up on directv, the updated for the h10 just went out and they are in the process of swaping them in west coast.


----------



## toms111la

dthreet said:


> think everyone. there prob be a patch. dont give up on directv, the updated the h10 and in the process of swaping them in pac, mnt time zone.


HUH!!! CAN ANYONE TRANSLATE?


----------



## mroot

I experienced my first 9-second dropout during the World Series last night. My Yamaha reciever shows "Dolby Digital" on the front during the broadcast and when the dropout occured, it changed to "Pro Logic", so something is definitely happening to the DD stream.

Mike

PS. This was an OTA broadcast


----------



## toms111la

mroot said:


> I experienced my first 9-second dropout during the World Series last night. My Yamaha reciever shows "Dolby Digital" on the front during the broadcast and when the dropout occured, it changed to "Pro Logic", so something is definitely happening to the DD stream.


I don't think this means anything other than the fact that your when your receiver stops getting a DD signal, it defaults back to try to use Pro-Logic. With the audio drops, no audio, DD or otherwise is sent to the receiver.


----------



## newsposter

litzdog911 said:


> Huh?


assuming not rhetorical (not that i've ever been wrong):

he wanted to know if the fact that he had the same dropouts as someone else meant that it was all our machines or just a fox problem?


----------



## bwaldron

newsposter said:


> assuming not rhetorical (not that i've ever been wrong):
> 
> he wanted to know if the fact that he had the same dropouts as someone else meant that it was all our machines or just a fox problem?


Well if that's the question, the answer is _both_.

Videojanitor has demonstrated that there is something in the FOX splicer that 6.3a doesn't like (but 3.1 has no problems with).


----------



## twaller

Does anyone know what the "official" D* position is on the dropouts? Are the CSRs and Tech Support people still saying "that's the first I've heard of it"?


----------



## chris_h

videojanitor said:


> As for any stat-muxing, during network programming, the splicer ensures that the network stream passes without being shaved. If the network feed needs more bits, it steals them away from the subchannel. The subchannel can never take anything away from the net feed.


Thanks for the information.


----------



## tmorley

just received the 6.3 updates last weekend . Both of my HD-Tivos are experiencing the dropouts everyone is describing - but only on Fox OTA 

no other OTA or Directv stations and not on my Directv distant network sd Fox station (388)


----------



## Cruzan

phox_mulder said:


> I think the worst case scenario would be watching a FOX recording,
> tuner "A" recording a FOX program, tuner "B" buffering FOX live.
> I think that would lead to a critical failure/reboot scenario.
> 
> phox


I also have more video burps with Fox than any other network.

I think DirecTV should try to work with Fox to fix the problem, and then sue their ass if it doesn't work.

Oh wait...


----------



## shanew1289

MAKE IT STOP!



Code:


Oct 27 18:51:53 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 18:51:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:51:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:51:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:51:53 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:56:21 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 18:56:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:56:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:56:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 18:56:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:00:36 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 19:00:36 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:00:36 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:00:36 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:00:36 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:08:29 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 19:08:29 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:08:29 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:08:29 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:08:29 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:17:12 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 19:17:12 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:17:12 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:17:12 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:17:12 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:21:18 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 19:21:18 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:21:18 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:21:18 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 19:21:18 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:10:45 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 20:10:45 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:10:45 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:10:45 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:10:45 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:15:17 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 20:15:17 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:15:17 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:15:17 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:15:17 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:39:48 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 20:39:48 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:39:48 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:39:48 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:39:48 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:44:20 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 20:44:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:44:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:44:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:44:20 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:52:21 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 20:52:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:52:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:52:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:52:21 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 20:58:50 (none) kernel: received EIT for tuner 0 (length=204) 
Oct 27 21:04:40 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:04:40 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:04:40 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:04:40 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:04:40 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:12:58 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:12:58 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:12:58 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:12:58 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:12:58 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:21:42 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:21:42 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:21:42 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:21:42 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:21:42 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:25:24 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:25:25 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:25:25 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:25:25 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:25:25 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:29:58 (none) kernel: StopTuner: ATSC_CMD_STOP (msg 0x10) (atscFd=62) tunerNumber = 1 
Oct 27 21:29:58 (none) kernel: <BroadcomDirectvInputReinitialize> Set tuner mux pin state to DSS 
Oct 27 21:29:58 (none) kernel: <BroadcomDirectvInputReinitialize> Set tuner mux pin state to DSS 
Oct 27 21:34:07 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:34:07 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:34:07 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:34:07 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:34:07 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:38:16 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:38:16 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:38:16 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:38:16 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:38:16 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:42:26 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:42:26 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:42:26 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:42:26 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:42:26 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:51:34 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full. 
Oct 27 21:51:34 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN 
Oct 27 21:51:34 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:51:34 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:51:34 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:51:34 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:55:52 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 21:55:52 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:55:52 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:55:52 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 21:55:52 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:00:00 (none) kernel: StopTuner: ATSC_CMD_STOP (msg 0x10) (atscFd=62) tunerNumber = 1 
Oct 27 22:01:33 (none) kernel: <updateRingBuffers> Hardware input buffer overflowed on audio stream; reason: ring buffer too full. 
Oct 27 22:01:33 (none) kernel: <BroadcomAtscStreamGetData> updateRingBuffers() returns OVERRUN 
Oct 27 22:01:33 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:01:33 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:01:33 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:01:33 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:05:28 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 22:05:28 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:05:28 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:05:28 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:05:28 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:09:23 (none) kernel: <processAudioPackets> GetPtsAndNextPesHeaderPosition() failed. 
Oct 27 22:09:23 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:09:23 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio stop --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:09:23 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> audio restart --> SUCCESS 
Oct 27 22:09:23 (none) kernel: <restartAvProcessing> video restart --> SUCCESS


----------



## holemania

twaller said:


> Does anyone know what the "official" D* position is on the dropouts? Are the CSRs and Tech Support people still saying "that's the first I've heard of it"?


yes, they are....i was even patched thru to 2nd level support and was told that it is not a "known issue".

we recently converted back to a land-line from vonage cause we ran a "clear & delete"...didn't realize you had to call in again to be able to use the dvr again after a "clear & delete".

anyway, at some point we must have been upgraded from 3.1.5 to 6.3a.

i was out of town....and my wife told me that we had begun to experience the audio dropout. they best 2nd level support could offer was to try "standard audio" instead of "dolby digital".

when i returned today, i saw that the audio was already set to "standard".

don't know if fox ota is the only channel to display the audio dropouts....will have to monitor that.

i will say that we had an erroneous reboot today though....

i hope directv is in touch with this forum....hopefully they will issue a patch to resolve this!


----------



## JonR

I've been watching this thread for a while and in hind sight I should have unplugged my unit so it would not update to 6.3a but I thought "not everyone is having issues" therefore I allowed the update to 6.3a.........What a mistake!! as I now have a unit that never had audio issues to one that displays the 8 to 10 sec audio drop followed by a picture pixelization every night viewing CBS OTA and FOX OTA. Since OTA makes up approximately seventy five percent of what we watch it has been very frustrating lately with our HR10. I called DTV, 2nd tier Tech support, and they said they are aware of the issue but have no plans on fixing it due to the release of the HR20. I politely asked if they could revert back to 3.1f and she said that it would be impossible. She also indicated that they had very few calls about this issue therefore DTV thinks this is a minor issue affecting only a select minority which makes it a low priority on their radar screen.

It is up to everyone that owns / leases a HR10 that exhibits this audio behavior and I assume they all do to call DTV and complain or it will never even be looked at by TIVO or their software engineers. We should all threaten to leave DTV if this issue is not resolved as this may be the only way to get their attention.

NUMBERS SPEAK LOUDER THAN YOU MAY THINK.......I pay a huge monthly bill to watch DTV programing which should not be interrupted by audio dropouts that have a direct link to the software DTV put on my DVR without my permission.

 
John


----------



## bwaldron

shanew1289 said:


> MAKE IT STOP!


Jeez, that is a depressing log!

Glad to be holding w/ 3.1.5f for now...


----------



## bwaldron

JonR said:


> I've been watching this thread for a while and in hind sight I should have unplugged my unit so it would not update to 6.3a but I thought "not everyone is having issues" therefore I allowed the update to 6.3a.........What a mistake!! as I now have a unit that never had audio issues to one that displays the 8 to 10 sec audio drop followed by a picture pixelization every night viewing CBS OTA and FOX OTA. Since OTA makes up approximately seventy five percent of what we watch it has been very frustrating lately with our HR10. I called DTV, 2nd tier Tech support, and they said they are aware of the issue but have no plans on fixing it due to the release of the HR20. I politely asked if they could revert back to 3.1f and she said that it would be impossible. She also indicated that they had very few calls about this issue therefore DTV thinks this is a minor issue affecting only a select minority which makes it a low priority on their radar screen.
> 
> It is up to everyone that owns / leases a HR10 that exhibits this audio behavior and I assume they all do to call DTV and complain or it will never even be looked at by TIVO or their software engineers. We should all threaten to leave DTV if this issue is not resolved as this may be the only way to get their attention.
> 
> NUMBERS SPEAK LOUDER THAN YOU MAY THINK.......I pay a huge monthly bill to watch DTV programing which should not be interrupted by audio dropouts that have a direct link to the software DTV put on my DVR without my permission.
> 
> 
> John


Sorry, we tried to warn you 

Hey, at least the front line CSR's have moved from "first we've heard of it" to "a few calls". Progress of sorts, I guess.

If you really want 3.1.5f back, you could always drop the $20 for InstantCake.


----------



## holemania

i realize alot of people have probably already called directv, but i think we should report this en masse and document our emails to get a more immediate response from directv...this is unacceptable!

here's the email i sent to directv:

directv technical team,

recently my hr10-250 hd/dvr software version was upgraded automatically from 3.1.5 to 6.3a. since the upgrade, we are experiencing intermittent audio dropouts for 8-10 seconds. also, we have experienced erroneous reboots. i have done some research online regarding the 6.3a upgrade and there seems to be a fair amount of people that are experiencing the same audio dropouts/erroneous reboot problems (tivocommunity and avsforum forums). please advise if directv technical dept. is aware of these problems with the upgrade. also, please let me know if a subsequent upgrade patch can be issued to help me & all the others who are experiencing these problems. we need to have these issues resolved. if a resolution patch cannot be issued, can i please return to the previous 3.1.5 software? i never experienced these problems before the upgrade to 6.3a. thanks for your time!


----------



## jeffstra

OK, I got one. I tried to play my recording of last weekend's F1 race but there was no audio. This was recorded before I received the update. I received the update Tuesday. I hadn't deleted the recording of the race and last night I tried to play it again but still no audio. Then, after switching to other recordings, I had no audio at all. No matter what recording or live TV. I restarted the unit and got the audio back. I've had the unit for nearly 2 years and that was the first time this has happened.


----------



## fasTLane

3.1.5f has been stable for this unit. 

Speed and organization is relative. At what cost.

Kudos to D* for giving the phone cord option.


----------



## Lije Baley

jeffstra said:


> OK, I got one. I tried to play my recording of last weekend's F1 race but there was no audio. This was recorded before I received the update. I received the update Tuesday. I hadn't deleted the recording of the race and last night I tried to play it again but still no audio. Then, after switching to other recordings, I had no audio at all. No matter what recording or live TV. I restarted the unit and got the audio back. I've had the unit for nearly 2 years and that was the first time this has happened.


I don't have 6.3 but I think it resets your audio to Dolby Digital. If you're listening through your TV you'd need to reset the audio output to PCM. If you were listening through a receiver with DD, I don't know what is going on. And if resetting the receiver fixed the problem, who knows what's happened.


----------



## mgmrick

Count me in for audio drop outs. Tried to watch world series on fox last night. Audio drop out thru out the game.

D* knew of this problem yet they released 6.3 and 6.3a any ways. Why would any company do this???

Thanks
Rick


----------



## HSW

I noticed a few 10 sec audio dropouts on Fox OTA last nite, but none on sat Fox-E. Could it be an OTA issue not related to the 6.3?


----------



## bwaldron

HSW said:


> I noticed a few 10 sec audio dropouts on Fox OTA last nite, but none on sat Fox-E. Could it be an OTA issue not related to the 6.3?


It is an OTA issue, but it's also related to 6.3a. The same OTA feeds work fine in 3.1.5f but cause dropouts on 6.3a.


----------



## phox_mulder

Last night I watched a couple "Justice"s that were recorded prior to receiving 6.3a.
Audio was rock solid through both episodes.
Justice is of course a FOX program.

Leads me to believe that it is indeed a recording problem rather than a playback problem.

I also watched "Las Vegas" which was recorded last night, and it was rock solid throughout as well.
NBC recordings seem to be fine with either software version.


phox


----------



## majones

bwaldron said:


> It is an OTA issue, but it's also related to 6.3a. The same OTA feeds work fine in 3.1.5f but cause dropouts on 6.3a.


I don't believe the Fox OTA audio dropout issue is related to 6.3 and here's why.

I had recently returned my HR10-250 because of hard drive issues and received a refurbished one last week. It had 3.1.5f on it so I unplugged the phone line after the initial setup of the unit.

Now with my setup, I split the OTA signal so that one leg goes into the HR10-250 and another goes directly into the TV (HP md5880n DLP). I do this so I can do PIP and because sometimes I like to watch HD shows like sports that I'm not recording anyway. I've found the HP TV's NTSC tuner is superior to the HR10-250's.

Anyway, I was watching the World Series on Fox last night through the HR10-250 and I was getting audio dropouts with some pixelation (remember that I have 3.1.5f software).

As a test, I switched over to the direct OTA feed (bypassing the HR10-250), and I was still getting the audio dropouts/pixelation. During the second half of the game, however, the audio dropouts stopped, on both the HR10 and OTA direct to the TV. Fox must have done something to fix the problem.

All this is proof to me that the audio dropouts/pixelation is a problem with Fox and not the HR10-250 or 6.3a software.


----------



## narrod

Not my experience at all. DirecTv replaced my unit that had been upgraded to 6.3a. The replacement has 3.15f and I unplugged the phone line to keep it that way. Every single problem I was having has gone away.


----------



## bwaldron

majones said:


> I don't believe the Fox OTA audio dropout issue is related to 6.3 and here's why.
> 
> I had recently returned my HR10-250 because of hard drive issues and received a refurbished one last week. It had 3.1.5f on it so I unplugged the phone line after the initial setup of the unit.
> 
> Now with my setup, I split the OTA signal so that one leg goes into the HR10-250 and another goes directly into the TV (HP md5880n DLP). I do this so I can do PIP and because sometimes I like to watch HD shows like sports that I'm not recording anyway. I've found the HP TV's NTSC tuner is superior to the HR10-250's.
> 
> Anyway, I was watching the World Series on Fox last night through the HR10-250 and I was getting audio dropouts with some pixelation (remember that I have 3.1.5f software).
> 
> As a test, I switched over to the direct OTA feed (bypassing the HR10-250), and I was still getting the audio dropouts/pixelation. During the second half of the game, however, the audio dropouts stopped, on both the HR10 and OTA direct to the TV. Fox must have done something to fix the problem.
> 
> All this is proof to me that the audio dropouts/pixelation is a problem with Fox and not the HR10-250 or 6.3a software.


Well, all I can tell you is that if you have kept up with this thread since the beginning, including videojanitor's experiment with the FOX splicer removed...not to mention those of use who have used 3.1 and 6.3 on the same hardware, there is plenty of evidence to show that there is a new audio dropout problem with 6.3a that simply does not occur with 3.1.5f. It happens mainly with FOX, but some have seen the same problem with other OTA channels. There are issues with the OTA signals that impact 6.3 but not 3.1.5.

But believe what you like.


----------



## mikeny

majones said:


> I don't believe the Fox OTA audio dropout issue is related to 6.3 and here's why.
> 
> I had recently returned my HR10-250 because of hard drive issues and received a refurbished one last week. It had 3.1.5f on it so I unplugged the phone line after the initial setup of the unit.
> 
> Now with my setup, I split the OTA signal so that one leg goes into the HR10-250 and another goes directly into the TV (HP md5880n DLP). I do this so I can do PIP and because sometimes I like to watch HD shows like sports that I'm not recording anyway. I've found the HP TV's NTSC tuner is superior to the HR10-250's.
> 
> Anyway, I was watching the World Series on Fox last night through the HR10-250 and I was getting audio dropouts with some pixelation (remember that I have 3.1.5f software).
> 
> As a test, I switched over to the direct OTA feed (bypassing the HR10-250), and I was still getting the audio dropouts/pixelation. During the second half of the game, however, the audio dropouts stopped, on both the HR10 and OTA direct to the TV. Fox must have done something to fix the problem.
> 
> All this is proof to me that the audio dropouts/pixelation is a problem with Fox and not the HR10-250 or 6.3a software.


It is most definitely 6.3a software. The dropouts are about 7 seconds long and they never occurred prior to 3.15 in that fashion. We're not talking about a muted syllable here. It's bad. It's more like lines of dialogue. They're recorded that way so rewinding and playing back you get the same dropout. It's not FOX.


----------



## majones

bwaldron said:


> There are issues with the OTA signals that impact 6.3 but not 3.1.5.
> 
> But believe what you like.


Hey, I'm just reporting my situation. There may very well be additional audio dropouts with 6.3, but I'm just saying Fox seems to also be responsible for dropouts/pixelation problems, even without 6.3 and without an HR10.


----------



## merlin803

bwaldron said:


> Well, all I can tell you is that if you have kept up with this thread since the beginning, including videojanitor's experiment with the FOX splicer removed...not to mention those of use who have used 3.1 and 6.3 on the same hardware, there is plenty of evidence to show that there is a new audio dropout problem with 6.3a that simply does not occur with 3.1.5f. It happens mainly with FOX, but some have seen the same problem with other OTA channels. There are issues with the OTA signals that impact 6.3 but not 3.1.5.
> 
> But believe what you like.


DTV's advanced tech dept. is well aware that 6.3a has caused the new audio drop out problem.


----------



## bwaldron

majones said:


> Hey, I'm just reporting my situation. There may very well be additional audio dropouts with 6.3, but I'm just saying Fox seems to also be responsible for dropouts/pixelation problems, even without 6.3 and without an HR10.


No problem. Wasn't meant as any sort of attack. But there are clear issues with 6.3a that aren't seen with 3.1.5f. There does seem to be something in the FOX OTA signal that is leading to buffer overflow errors with 6.3a. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that other equipment is affected as well.

FWIW, Fox is causing no problems at all for me as long as I run 3.1.5f on my HR10. It also is fine on my TV's built-in tuner. With 6.3a, though, I get a new type of 8-10 sec. audio dropouts on FOX. Many others have found the same to be true.

Hope whatever issues you're having w/ FOX on your equipment get worked out.


----------



## toms111la

majones said:


> I don't believe the Fox OTA audio dropout issue is related to 6.3 and here's why.
> 
> I had recently returned my HR10-250 because of hard drive issues and received a refurbished one last week. It had 3.1.5f on it so I unplugged the phone line after the initial setup of the unit.
> 
> Now with my setup, I split the OTA signal so that one leg goes into the HR10-250 and another goes directly into the TV (HP md5880n DLP). I do this so I can do PIP and because sometimes I like to watch HD shows like sports that I'm not recording anyway. I've found the HP TV's NTSC tuner is superior to the HR10-250's.
> 
> Anyway, I was watching the World Series on Fox last night through the HR10-250 and I was getting audio dropouts with some pixelation (remember that I have 3.1.5f software).
> 
> As a test, I switched over to the direct OTA feed (bypassing the HR10-250), and I was still getting the audio dropouts/pixelation. During the second half of the game, however, the audio dropouts stopped, on both the HR10 and OTA direct to the TV. Fox must have done something to fix the problem.
> 
> All this is proof to me that the audio dropouts/pixelation is a problem with Fox and not the HR10-250 or 6.3a software.


It seems to me that the problems you were having are more related to reception problems rather than the 6.3 problem that the majority of us are seeing. When I switch to my other tuner, I don't have the problem. It seems to me that nothing about the problem is universal. But enough of us are sure that the problem is absolutely being caused by the software upgrade.


----------



## majones

toms111la said:


> But enough of us are sure that the problem is absolutely being caused by the software upgrade.


Oh, I am convinced that there are problems are caused by 6.3. I had 6.3a briefly and experienced most of them.

The dropouts/pixelation on Fox that I was seeing being reception-related? Could be.


----------



## videojanitor

majones said:


> Anyway, I was watching the World Series on Fox last night through the HR10-250 and I was getting audio dropouts with some pixelation (remember that I have 3.1.5f software).


I can tell you that FOX was having occasional problems with the feed on Friday night, so anything you saw is likely what was being broadcast. It affected both the HD and SD feeds -- appeared to be in the link between the remote site and the TOC.


----------



## zdude1

I am watching the Bucs-Bengals on Fox OTA in Atlanta on my hr10-250, and just had a 9 second audio dropout at 3:49pm. I rewinded and played it back, and it dropped out again, so it is in the recording. 

SW: 6.3a, bone stock HR10-250, using HDMI-DVI, and L/R audio

Audio Settings:
Dolby Digital: No, record in standard audio
Digital Output: DD to PCM

(I also get the recordings stopping prematurely on OTA, as it did during the FL-GA game yesterday on CBS-HD OTA)

It appears they didn't do their homework before releasing 6.3a.


----------



## newsposter

zdude1 said:


> I am watching the Bucs-Bengals on Fox OTA in Atlanta on my hr10-250, and just had a 9 second audio dropout at 3:49pm. I rewinded and played it back, and it dropped out again, so it is in the recording.
> .


In fairness, 100% of everything you watch on tivo is on a recording  but I do realize that sometimes things can be cleared up by rewinding.


----------



## ravedog

Tonight - problems watching football on NBC (KVBS) at around 5:50PM and audio drop outs started happening - getting frequent - then CRASH.... the HR10-250 crashed and took 15 minutes to reboot.

Nice...


----------



## sluciani

ravedog said:


> Tonight - problems watching football on NBC (KVBS) at around 5:50PM and audio drop outs started happening - getting frequent - then CRASH.... the HR10-250 crashed and took 15 minutes to reboot.(


It probably was your KVBS feed, but just curious if you might have been tuned to FOX OTA on your other tuner at the time. If there are dropouts on the unwatched tuner, I'm wondering if they might spill over to the watched tuner, or cause a reboot due to background processing errors.

/steve


----------



## mkedave

My experience is that the problem is definitely 6.3a-related. 

I started having the audio dropouts (about 10 seconds or so, primarily with FOX OTA) immediately after the forced 6.3a upgrade. After several discussions with D* customer service/tier-two tech support, D* replaced my HR10-250 with another which did not have the upgrade.

No dropouts since.

But I'm certainly not going to reconnect the phone line until/if a new version of 6.x is released and proven in the field.


----------



## hxmiller

Sometimes after the aduio dropouts my Tivo reboots. Happens aabout every once every day at various times.


----------



## kroddy

Found mine "Searching for signal" and not responding to remote (or buttons on the panel) just before 1pm yesterday.... unplugged to reboot... was looking forward to watching the Eagles without dropouts this week since they were on CBS... noticed that KYW-DT (Phila CBS 3-1) was constanttly swapping between DD5.1 and DD 2.0 - 5.1 during the live game, 2.0 for the hand-back to the studio for game-breaks, and for commercials...about 1:30pm the audio stopped, picture froze and it rebooted all by itself...

After that, the rest of the game was problem free - still swapping 5.1/2.0, but the Eagles played far worse than they used to before the upgrade 

Skipped quickly through both the Fox & CBS 4pm games - didn't notice any dropouts but that doesn't mean there weren't any... 

Watched pretty much the whole of the NBC game on WCAU-DT 10-1 OTA & did get one 6.3 typical 8 second audio drop-out/video stutter towards the end.

This is becoming annoying, particularly the lock-ups & reboots... I don't believe it is the hard-drive (it's a couple of month old Seagate 750Gb that checked out perfectly in SpinRite before I installed it - don't really eant to spend that amount of time checking it again  ), and it's definitely not thermal - temp sensor is normally around 40-42 degrees.

I've had various Tivo's for about six years now, and my HR10 for almost 2.5 years, and apart from a very occasional glitch they've always just sat there and worked - I'm now starting to think I need to babysit it constantly.


----------



## DennisMileHi

narrod said:


> Not my experience at all. DirecTv replaced my unit that had been upgraded to 6.3a. The replacement has 3.15f and I unplugged the phone line to keep it that way. Every single problem I was having has gone away.


Ditto. Exactly the same thing. And I do have another HR10-250 that is on 6.3a and it has audio problems on FOX (a lot) and CBS OTA.


----------



## bwaldron

DennisMileHi said:


> Ditto. Exactly the same thing. And I do have another HR10-250 that is on 6.3a and it has audio problems on FOX (a lot) and CBS OTA.


Yes, that has been the experience of many of us here.


----------



## Mr. Bill

We have these now too -- 8-10 sec and sometimes a very brief pixel breakup afterwords. It was happening frequently on KERA (PBS) 13-1 on Friday night.


----------



## gstahl

Sorry for the me too but after 6.3a mine also has audio dropouts OTA. Seems like an issue of the product not meeting promises once they did a software update (now how much an I paying for this??)

Two notes:
- My dropouts are maybe 7-15 seconds (have not timed) simple lack of audio, everything else is fine, no picture break up, no reboot. I think I can change channels and come back to the channel to fix it, but have not tested this more than once.
- I actually really Directv and have been a customer since the early USSB days (what was this like 1994?) but this is rather annoying to fit a reboot problem (hopefully fixed) and this audio issue with a new software update.


----------



## fives

...and i thought i was the only one! i've experienced the same audio dropouts as you've described. I spoke with D* tech support about it, and they did not indicate that they knew about this issue. then i happened on this thread and, after browsing 22 pages of posts, i'm glad i'm not alone, but quite disappointed in D*! In post 633, merlin803 stated that "DTV's advanced tech dept. is well aware that 6.3a has caused the new audio drop out problem." Does anyone know if they are doing anything about it? 

Does D* tech support monitor this forum? sure would be nice to know that they see what we see...

-fives


----------



## Chandler Mike

Mr. Bill said:


> We have these now too -- 8-10 sec and sometimes a very brief pixel breakup afterwords. It was happening frequently on KERA (PBS) 13-1 on Friday night.


I have this exact same problem.

Has happened 3 times during the first 30 minutes of Prison Break tonight.


----------



## holemania

merlin803 said:


> DTV's advanced tech dept. is well aware that 6.3a has caused the new audio drop out problem.


do you have any further information/documentation that DirecTV has their finger on the pulse of this issue?

are they actively pursuing some sort of resolution?

please provide further details...


----------



## merlin803

holemania said:


> do you have any further information/documentation that DirecTV has their finger on the pulse of this issue?
> 
> are they actively pursuing some sort of resolution?
> 
> please provide further details...


I don't really have any useful information other than talking to them a couple of times and them acknowledging that there is a problem and they are working on it.

I believe there is a post by Earl on the "other" site where he said that D* has not "officially" acknowledged a problem but that they have asked Tivo to work on the problem.


----------



## ddix

Talked to DTV tier 2 support tonight and was told the fix would be out the end of November.


----------



## tyketime

kroddy said:


> ... noticed that KYW-DT (Phila CBS 3-1) was constanttly swapping between DD5.1 and DD 2.0 - 5.1 during the live game, 2.0 for the hand-back to the studio for game-breaks, and for commercials...


I am still on 3.1.5 (I've left it unplugged to avoid the update for now). I experienced the same signal changes as you did. Now I am not an audiophile, so I can only report what I noticed. I have an optical audio output from HR10-250 to my Onkyo Receiver. When the game was on, my receiver indicated a DD signal, but PCM also showed up on my receiver display. When they went to commercials, PCM disappeared, a second DD label was displayed, and the sound was louder and fuller.

I'm at the office so I can't check right now, but does this mean my receiver is not capable of receiving DD5.1 and that's why it triggered into PCM mode?

I found the constant changes distracting. Are others also experiencing this constant change in signal? Most of the Eagles games have been on Fox and I don't recall experiencing this issue like I did this past weekend.


----------



## newsposter

ahh, the pleasures of Fox OTA on my old 3.1 machine last night. 

I think dtv should give out 2nd receivers to all you who dont have them, at least as temporary rentals.


----------



## Anthony In NYC

I never had a single audio or video problem on my HD-Tivo until 6.3a. Now I have the audio problem all the time and the video problem was so bad I had to reboot my tivo... I REALLY REALLY WISH I had unplugged that phone line in time.... it really is awful. I too have an Onkyo I have seen a more than few people with onkyo report the problem...


----------



## jspencer

I have experienced audio dropouts occurring every 1o mins or so and lasting for ten seconds. Sent DTV a note and of course they say call as there has been no report of audio issues *wink * I never had an issue with audio dropout pror to this upgrade of software.


----------



## SHOMan

Anthony In NYC said:


> I never had a single audio or video problem on my HD-Tivo until 6.3a. Now I have the audio problem all the time and the video problem was so bad I had to reboot my tivo... I REALLY REALLY WISH I had unplugged that phone line in time.... it really is awful. I too have an Onkyo I have seen a more than few people with onkyo report the problem...


Anthony, it is NOT your Onkyo.


----------



## tcloyd

OK, this is a bit strange......been experiencing the dropouts like everyone else on Fox OTA. I was dreading HOUSE starting back up on my season pass knowing that there would be dropouts all over the place and that it would drive my nuts during one of my wife's and mine favorite shows. However, I only experienced two (maybe three) dropouts during the show. It was nowhere near as bad as it was during Fox's sports presentations. Weird.


----------



## Gweeto

tcloyd said:


> OK, this is a bit strange......been experiencing the dropouts like everyone else on Fox OTA. I was dreading HOUSE starting back up on my season pass knowing that there would be dropouts all over the place and that it would drive my nuts during one of my wife's and mine favorite shows. However, I only experienced two (maybe three) dropouts during the show. It was nowhere near as bad as it was during Fox's sports presentations. Weird.


I am getting about the same thing. The FOX OTA shows I am recording get about 3 to 4 audio dropouts in an hours (knock on wood so it does not get worse). They usually seem to come together like during one particular segment between commercial breaks.


----------



## thepackfan

tcloyd said:


> OK, this is a bit strange......been experiencing the dropouts like everyone else on Fox OTA. I was dreading HOUSE starting back up on my season pass knowing that there would be dropouts all over the place and that it would drive my nuts during one of my wife's and mine favorite shows. However, I only experienced two (maybe three) dropouts during the show. It was nowhere near as bad as it was during Fox's sports presentations. Weird.


My guess is that fox sports programs use a higher bitrate thus the worse the drop out


----------



## crwmlw

Ok Im in Chicago withe 6.3 getting a huge amount of audio dropouts. Huge fan of Prison Break on Fox and Im ready to lose it. I should have never had my phone line plugged in? How many people here have received a decent explenation from Directv?


----------



## fasTLane

Total of people who have received a decent explanation = 0

Still unplugged and waiting.


----------



## broken back

Tried to watch House that was recorded on 10/30 was not hearable. Had 8 audio drop outs first 15 minutes. My wife told me to watch it and try to tell her what happened. It is time this was fixed by Tivo for DTV customers. This was the worst show yet on Fox. We have had drops on other OTA but not like FOX.

And yes I have called DTV Tech and DTV forum.


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## steven-h

Just spent 25 Min on the phone with Direct. I was hot, in addition to the audio drop outs and 1 or 2 reboots now when I go to the program guide and move up or down in the guide it acts like the button is stuck and just keeps going. Same thing if I go to info, it is like the up down switch is stuck. I have another remote programed for the HR 10-250 and it does the same thing. Direct did not try and tell me to do anything they just listened and took all I had to say down and told me they most certainly know about the problem with 6.3a and hope to have some information in a week. All of my information will be passed on. I just hope so I want my 3.1 back.


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## toms111la

I am so close to canceling! Check out the email responce I got today!:

_Thanks for writing about your equipment. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having on your HR10-250 receiver. We are aware of this issue. After the HR10-250 software upgrade to 6.3 version, some customers report loss of audio on HD channels. To troubleshoot this technical issue, please try these steps:

1. Go to DIRECTV Central 
2. Select "Message and Settings"
3. Select "Settings"
4. Select "Audio" 
5. On Dolby Digital (Select No, record standard audio). This will make the receiver record with Dolby off. 
6. Select Digital output. Then Choose "Dolby digital to PCM" (not Dolby Digital). This will make live TV audio work.

Just to let you know, this issue has been resolved with the software download 6.3A in Sep - Oct 2006. To confirm this software version on your HR10-250, please follow the following steps:

1. Go to Main menu. 
2. Messages and Setup. 
3. System Information. 
4. "Software Version" displays the current version.

I hope this information has been helpful. If the troubleshooting steps did not fix the problem, please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance._


----------



## videojanitor

thepackfan said:


> My guess is that fox sports programs use a higher bitrate thus the worse the drop out


That's a valid theory, but in reality the sports programming doesn't use a bit rate that's any higher than the regular prime programming. Also, my local FOX station has a subchannel which only uses about 4 Mbps -- I got the exact same dropouts on that. When the splicer was bypassed, the dropouts stopped, even though the bit rate was the same. Something else is causing this -- but what, I do not know.


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## amoneys2k

Just thought I'd add to the list of those that are seeing the audio dropouts on FOX and CBS after the 6.3a upgrade. They're about 7 seconds long and sometimes the video hiccups right when the audio comes back. I'm recording this OTA in HD. I don't have Dolby Digital enabled, just using standard audio.


----------



## litzdog911

toms111la said:


> I am so close to canceling! Check out the email responce I got today!:
> 
> _Thanks for writing about your equipment. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having on your HR10-250 receiver. We are aware of this issue. After the HR10-250 software upgrade to 6.3 version, some customers report loss of audio on HD channels. To troubleshoot this technical issue, please try these steps:
> 
> 1. Go to DIRECTV Central
> 2. Select "Message and Settings"
> 3. Select "Settings"
> 4. Select "Audio"
> 5. On Dolby Digital (Select No, record standard audio). This will make the receiver record with Dolby off.
> 6. Select Digital output. Then Choose "Dolby digital to PCM" (not Dolby Digital). This will make live TV audio work.
> 
> Just to let you know, this issue has been resolved with the software download 6.3A in Sep - Oct 2006. To confirm this software version on your HR10-250, please follow the following steps:
> 
> 1. Go to Main menu.
> 2. Messages and Setup.
> 3. System Information.
> 4. "Software Version" displays the current version.
> 
> I hope this information has been helpful. If the troubleshooting steps did not fix the problem, please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance._


Sad. This is incorrect advice and will not solve the ~8-sec DD audio dropout problem. I've forward a copy of this text to my DirecTV Customer Engineering Support contacts so that they can change the "script" being used to respond to folks reporting this problem.


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## hybucket

Here's one I don't think I've seen. I"m getting the dropouts on FOX OTA when NOT watching it recorded, but "live." I know the TiVO is always recording, but til now, was only getting the dropouts on previously recorded pgms. This morning, I"m getting it watching "live" TV. Called D*, just to make sure my complaint was put in my file, and got the usual responses.


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## Liquidice

Got pointed to this thread from another forum. I've been having the same 8-10 second audio dropout randomly when watching OTA stations only, DirecTV HD stations seem just fine (HDNet, HBO HD, etc ..). FOX OTA seems to be one of the worst.

I found rebooting my TiVo eliminted the problem at least for a little while. Turning on PCM did not fix the problem for me. I have a few recordings that have the dropout built into the recording regardless of the broadcast. Perhaps if I changed to not record in Dolbt Digital vice outputting PCM it would fix the problem, but I don't think this is an acceptable fix either.

If anyone has found any workarounds it would be much appreciated!


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## Cubfan

I've got audio dropouts on OTA stations, too. Made the World Series pretty unenjoyable... or was it that the Cardinals won it? Well, maybe both.


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## ElectricPickle

On November 8th DirecTV will give their quarterly report to stockholders for the third quarter. Their second quarter report was interesting in that they emphasized how they were spending almost a billion dollars on customer retention of "High Quality Customers" (that's us, the ones who spend over $600 per year on their service and are using HD and DVR's) so that we would not be part of the "churn" (people who leave DTV for something else). They also bragged about how the HR20 was ahead of schedule and would help keep the HQC's happy. I don't know if that is working out for them at this point in time, especially since the OTA tuners are still turned off. Also I don't think that DirecTV expected how effective the cable companies "Triple Play" packaging turned out and they are scrambling now to stop the "churn" it's causing. Also consider that traditionally the third quarter has always had the largest churn rate anyway - now even larger. My point is this. DirecTV does NOT want people like us to leave. If they are smart, and can overcome the "big corporation" "poop flows downhill" mentality, then they will fix the HR10-250 bugs ASAP. There is no excuse for the HR20 not being the best that it can be, they built it in-house and can fix it in-house. Let's wait and see what they have to say to their stockholders on the 8th. If we feel ignored or uncompensated then we can leave and it WILL hurt them.


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## newsposter

aww man...watching Nine now...got a loud static tick tick tick for about 30 second...then no sound...then tick tick back...then cleared up....I can't move even more SP to the 3.1 machine as it has only 1/2 the space and is overloaded now

wahhh


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## drew2k

newsposter said:


> aww man...watching Nine now...got a loud static tick tick tick for about 30 second...then no sound...then tick tick back...then cleared up....I can't move even more SP to the 3.1 machine as it has only 1/2 the space and is overloaded now
> 
> wahhh


This was NOT a TiVo issue ... I repeat: This was NOT a TiVo issue!

I had the same static ticks followed by complete lack of audio with playback on my HR10-250, so I jumped over to the the same recording on my Cablevision SA-8300HD and had the same sound problems in the same exact places. (Yes, I double-record Wednesday ABC night series on two DVR's.... Anal? Maybe. Worth it? Definitely!)


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## spellow

well, just got off the phone with Customer Retention DTV, they said a patch is being worked on but will be 30-60 days out.

They said to disable DD on the Tivo,...lol yeah right.

so basically we have to live with this crap until a patch comes out....this sucks, I didn't pay all this money for 2 of these things so TV could suck.

we need to organize and get DTV to get something done about this....I'm so close to just cancelling, I have FIOS and have been testing their DVR and it's not soo bad, alteast there is no audio drop outs.


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## Liquidice

MikeW on DBSTalk posted this:



MikeW said:


> One of the suggestions by a DirecTV tech was to configure my box as "Satellite Only", then back to "Satellte and Antenna". Takes about 15 minutes. I did this yesterday before recording Boston Legal. It actually seemed to work. I had no dropouts for the entire 60 minutes. Previous weeks had 3-5 drops per episode. I've had dropouts on ABC and Fox. I'm looking forward to seeing if Justice has any dropouts next week.


I can't link the URL because I dont have 5 posts.

Anyways, I ran through this procedure and then scanned for OTA channels again. No idea if this really helped yet, but some on DBSTalk reported that this helped them!


----------



## litzdog911

Liquidice said:


> MikeW on DBSTalk posted this:
> 
> I can't link the URL because I dont have 5 posts.
> 
> Anyways, I ran through this procedure and then scanned for OTA channels again. No idea if this really helped yet, but some on DBSTalk reported that this helped them!


Folks who've tried this have reported that it's not a fix.


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## sluciani

drew2k said:


> This was NOT a TiVo issue ... I repeat: This was NOT a TiVo issue!


I second this. Had the same probem. Recorded on D* channel 86. /s


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## rod456

Cubfan said:


> I've got audio dropouts on OTA stations, too. Made the World Series pretty unenjoyable... or was it that the Cardinals won it? Well, maybe both.


Sorry Cubbies,

WAY TO GO CARDS!!!


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## newsposter

drew2k said:


> This was NOT a TiVo issue ... I repeat: This was NOT a TiVo issue!
> 
> I had the same static ticks followed by complete lack of audio with playback on my HR10-250, so I jumped over to the the same recording on my Cablevision SA-8300HD and had the same sound problems in the same exact places. (Yes, I double-record Wednesday ABC night series on two DVR's.... Anal? Maybe. Worth it? Definitely!)


'good' news. But weird that this happened 2 x recently but never before. Just coincidental timing about 6.3.


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## notmestl

Well here is the response I got (mind you I mentioned I tried turning off Dolby Digital with no positive results)......

_Thanks for writing and for bringing this matter to our attention. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this technical issue has caused. Our Technical Department is aware of the matter and is working on a future software download that will resolve the issue. In the meantime, you can turn off Dolby Digital as a short-term fix to the audio dropping out for 8-10 seconds.

If you have any further questions, please call our technical support center at call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly._


----------



## Charlutz

drew2k said:


> This was NOT a TiVo issue ... I repeat: This was NOT a TiVo issue!
> 
> I had the same static ticks followed by complete lack of audio with playback on my HR10-250, so I jumped over to the the same recording on my Cablevision SA-8300HD and had the same sound problems in the same exact places. (Yes, I double-record Wednesday ABC night series on two DVR's.... Anal? Maybe. Worth it? Definitely!)


That's good to know. We had the same issue with the Nine. I am getting occasional audio dropouts with pixellation upon recovery and last night CSI and Grey's both stopped recording 26 minutes in. 6.3a sucks.


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## hybucket

On the forum for the new Series 3, they are also talking about stopped-recording problems, so perhaps it is NOT a 6.3a issue.


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## litzdog911

notmestl said:


> Well here is the response I got (mind you I mentioned I tried turning off Dolby Digital with no positive results)......
> 
> _Thanks for writing and for bringing this matter to our attention. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this technical issue has caused. Our Technical Department is aware of the matter and is working on a future software download that will resolve the issue. In the meantime, you can turn off Dolby Digital as a short-term fix to the audio dropping out for 8-10 seconds.
> 
> If you have any further questions, please call our technical support center at call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.
> 
> Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly._


Right. I'm trying to get my DirecTV support engineering contacts to change this "advice" because it does NOT solve the problem.


----------



## toms111la

toms111la said:


> I am so close to canceling! Check out the email responce I got today!:
> 
> _Thanks for writing about your equipment. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having on your HR10-250 receiver. We are aware of this issue. After the HR10-250 software upgrade to 6.3 version, some customers report loss of audio on HD channels. To troubleshoot this technical issue, please try these steps:
> 
> 1. Go to DIRECTV Central
> 2. Select "Message and Settings"
> 3. Select "Settings"
> 4. Select "Audio"
> 5. On Dolby Digital (Select No, record standard audio). This will make the receiver record with Dolby off.
> 6. Select Digital output. Then Choose "Dolby digital to PCM" (not Dolby Digital). This will make live TV audio work.
> 
> Just to let you know, this issue has been resolved with the software download 6.3A in Sep - Oct 2006. To confirm this software version on your HR10-250, please follow the following steps:
> 
> 1. Go to Main menu.
> 2. Messages and Setup.
> 3. System Information.
> 4. "Software Version" displays the current version.
> 
> I hope this information has been helpful. If the troubleshooting steps did not fix the problem, please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance._


This is a follow up to my continuing attempts to get a reasonable answer from DirecTV. I sent a very nasty email responding to the above. Yesterday I got a call from someone at DirecTV who left a message on my voice mail. They left a name and number so I called this AM. I assumed that the number would get me to the technical group but when I call the number, the auto answer system starts out trying to get me to order a pay-for view! Anyway I fight through the system and ask for advance technical support and I get a guy who I tell about the audio drops. He starts with the normal ...turn off the DD..try a reset.. blah..blah... blah..and I loose it. I tell him to put a supervisor on. After a few minutes on hold, I get a very nice, well spoken woman who, for the very first time says yes, they know about the problem and are working to come up with a fix. I was feeing a little better at this point but I had to ask when she thought it would be fixed. *At that point she told me that the problem had first been reported on November 1*. Needless to say, I got very angry at such a ridiculous statement. I told her I had reported it for the first time myself several weeks ago and that I know of lots of others who have reported it long before November 1. All I can say is keep calling. It is really a pain but as soon as you hear BS.. move up the food chain.. ask for supervisors until you get someone who speaks the language and gives an answer that makes sense.


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## newsposter

dang now L/O last night had a dropout. 1st nbc one I noticed


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## crwmlw

Ok same story here, just hung up with Directv at 9AM, they said they put a trouble ticket in November 1st and the technical staff is working on a fix and have no idea when it will be out. The bottom line is they know about it and are working on it, the first person I talked to was an idiot and said I must have a faulty receiver. Where in G--DS name do they get these idiots for tech support? LOL We'll just have to wait and see. Just wanted to let everyone know.


----------



## Jeff's Tivo

Hello,
Here's a big surprise......I just got off the line with DTV Tech support regarding the audio drop outs I've been experiencing since the 6.3 update.
They have NEVER ever heard of this problem existing to date. (yeah, Right !)
But they will be glad to exchange my "owned" HR10-250 with a "leased" HR20.
Why can't they just say" we're aware of the problem and we're working on it"
Is that too much to ask !


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## toms111la

Jeff's Tivo said:


> Hello,
> Here's a big surprise......I just got off the line with DTV Tech support regarding the audio drop outs I've been experiencing since the 6.3 update.
> They have NEVER ever heard of this problem existing to date. (yeah, Right !)
> But they will be glad to exchange my "owned" HR10-250 with a "leased" HR20.
> Why can't they just say" we're aware of the problem and we're working on it"
> Is that too much to ask !


Only the supervisors know!!


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## hybucket

The audio dropouts on FOX with last week's PRISON BREAK (yeah, I'm running behind) were incredible. I think I'll check out Comcast again...


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## phox_mulder

hybucket said:


> The audio dropouts on FOX with last week's PRISON BREAK (yeah, I'm running behind) were incredible. I think I'll check out Comcast again...


I just finished watching it, and it was fine for the whole hour.

Last night I watched a couple Vanished's, and they were fine as well.

No, I haven't reverted to 3.1, I am still on 6.3a.
No, I havent' changed anything audio recording/playback wise.
No, I haven't changed my antenna or rescanned the channels.

I wonder if the local FOX station has done something different regarding the splicer or whatever piece of equipment it was determined is causing the problems?

I'm getting ready to watch last weeks Bones, will be listening like a hawk.

phox


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## Brett Jason

when you guys refer to "audio dropouts" are they accompanied by a stuttering/pixelation? THat's what I have, I just don't know if it's the same thing. Mine seems to be on NBC OTA. ER and The Office, this past Thursday most recent examples. It makes the shows virtually unwatchable.


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## videojanitor

The specific audio dropout being discussed here is typically a loss of audio for about 8-10 seconds -- then the picture will pixellate briefly, and the audio returns. Does that sound like what you're experiencing?


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## litzdog911

phox_mulder said:


> I just finished watching it, and it was fine for the whole hour.
> 
> Last night I watched a couple Vanished's, and they were fine as well.
> 
> No, I haven't reverted to 3.1, I am still on 6.3a.
> No, I havent' changed anything audio recording/playback wise.
> No, I haven't changed my antenna or rescanned the channels.
> 
> I wonder if the local FOX station has done something different regarding the splicer or whatever piece of equipment it was determined is causing the problems?
> 
> I'm getting ready to watch last weeks Bones, will be listening like a hawk.
> 
> phox


I have noticed that the dropout frequency varies considerably from day to day and program to program. For example, "Prison Break" a couple of weeks ago was unwatchable due to numerous 8-sec audio drops every few minutes. But last week's "Prison Break" was fine, with just two audio drops.


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## kbohip

I've noticeed far fewer dropouts over the last few days. I wonder if they're actually working on the problem.


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## rod456

toms111la said:


> Only the supervisors know!!


Poor CS, IMHO. D* should be passing on the information to the frontline CSR so they don't screw up anymore HR10's than they have by needless restarts, etc.

All I ask is for a CSR to be honest and upfront. I think all anyone wants to know is 1) Yes we are aware of the problem and 2) we are working towards resolving the problem in the near future.


----------



## hifijoe

OK, I'm a newbie to this forum, but I've been a D* customer for 9 years straight and don't want to switch to Com*, but I will if needed. I've just purchased and hooked up my HD10-250 via HDMI to my new Vizio and was supprised to find NO SOUND AT ALL! Switching to PCM solves this problem but I want DD! Since I am just now upgrading to HD, I don't have the Sat hooked up becouse D* can't get one installed until the end ov the month. I just have the ant. connected and wanted to watch and record OTA. I wished I checked this forum before I paid $300 for this DVR. Is this sound issue the same for Sat channels? If it is, I'm may return this unit and get the dreaded D* unit without TIVO.


----------



## Brett Jason

yes, that's it. I don't see the pixelation mentioned as much, wanted to make sure it was the same error. Again, I see it mostly on NBC shows. Either that or I watch too much NBC.


----------



## Juppers

hifijoe said:


> OK, I'm a newbie to this forum, but I've been a D* customer for 9 years straight and don't want to switch to Com*, but I will if needed. I've just purchased and hooked up my HD10-250 via HDMI to my new Vizio and was supprised to find NO SOUND AT ALL! Switching to PCM solves this problem but I want DD! Since I am just now upgrading to HD, I don't have the Sat hooked up becouse D* can't get one installed until the end ov the month. I just have the ant. connected and wanted to watch and record OTA. I wished I checked this forum before I paid $300 for this DVR. Is this sound issue the same for Sat channels? If it is, I'm may return this unit and get the dreaded D* unit without TIVO.


A different unit won't make a difference. The Vizio you have doesn't have a DD decoder in it. Doesn't really need one since they only have 2 speakers.


----------



## rod456

hifijoe said:


> OK, I'm a newbie to this forum, but I've been a D* customer for 9 years straight and don't want to switch to Com*, but I will if needed. I've just purchased and hooked up my HD10-250 via HDMI to my new Vizio and was supprised to find NO SOUND AT ALL! Switching to PCM solves this problem but I want DD! Since I am just now upgrading to HD, I don't have the Sat hooked up becouse D* can't get one installed until the end ov the month. I just have the ant. connected and wanted to watch and record OTA. I wished I checked this forum before I paid $300 for this DVR. Is this sound issue the same for Sat channels? If it is, I'm may return this unit and get the dreaded D* unit without TIVO.


Duh, maybe you needed a little more research into HD and DD before purchasing a HD TV. You need a DD receiver, center channel speaker, FR/FL speaker, RR/RL speakers and subwoofer for DD. Sure isn't D's fault.........


----------



## phox_mulder

phox_mulder said:


> I'm getting ready to watch last weeks Bones, will be listening like a hawk.
> 
> phox


OK, Bones was odd.

1st 10-15 minutes there were at least 4-5 10 seconds audio dropouts.

Then around the time they should have taken their first station break, there was a burst of pixelization, they took their break, and the audio was fine for the rest of the program.

It's like they switched to a different feed or delay server when they came back from break, and that fixed the audio dropouts.

Whatever they did, they need to do it more often.

phox


----------



## hifijoe

rod456 said:


> Duh, maybe you needed a little more research into HD and DD before purchasing a HD TV. You need a DD receiver, center channel speaker, FR/FL speaker, RR/RL speakers and subwoofer for DD. Sure isn't D's fault.........


OH REALLY!! I assumed the fiber optic output from the TV connected to my DD receiver would pass the signal. Since it did not, I connected the fiber optic cable from the tivo to my receiver. Same problem. Thanks for your help.


----------



## drew2k

hifijoe said:


> OH REALLY!! I assumed the fiber optic output from the TV connected to my DD receiver would pass the signal. Since it did not, I connected the fiber optic cable from the tivo to my receiver. Same problem.


It should have worked for you - this is the same way my home theater is setup (HD TiVo sound into TV, TV out to AV Receiver), and my DD works. I only record off of Sat though, no OTA.


hifijoe said:


> Thanks for your help.


 I love sarcasm. Rod definitely deserves it too.


----------



## newsposter

phox_mulder said:


> OK, Bones was odd.


yes he is but..... 

no fox problems since moved all passes to 3.1 machine thankfully.


----------



## ShiningBengal

hifijoe said:


> OK, I'm a newbie to this forum, but I've been a D* customer for 9 years straight and don't want to switch to Com*, but I will if needed. I've just purchased and hooked up my HD10-250 via HDMI to my new Vizio and was supprised to find NO SOUND AT ALL! Switching to PCM solves this problem but I want DD! Since I am just now upgrading to HD, I don't have the Sat hooked up becouse D* can't get one installed until the end ov the month. I just have the ant. connected and wanted to watch and record OTA. I wished I checked this forum before I paid $300 for this DVR. Is this sound issue the same for Sat channels? If it is, I'm may return this unit and get the dreaded D* unit without TIVO.


Does the Vizio have the capablity of decoding and outputing 5.1 Dolby Digital? My Vizio 37" LCD will not decode Dolby Digial, PCM 2.0 or analog are the only options. If you want Dolby Digital, you will have to put it through an AVR or other decoder and from there to 5.1 audio amplification and speakers.


----------



## Juppers

hifijoe said:


> OH REALLY!! I assumed the fiber optic output from the TV connected to my DD receiver would pass the signal. Since it did not, I connected the fiber optic cable from the tivo to my receiver. Same problem. Thanks for your help.


If you read the specs for your Vizio set, the optical out is for OTA DTV channels. It does not pass along any info from the HDMI input.

Did you reenable DD when you plugged the optical form your HR10-250 to your receiver?


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## String

I was having the usual dropout problems during the Football game yesterday. I change the channel on the second tuner to 0, and the problems stopped. I wonder if it is only an issue if the 2 tuners are both set to HD channels.


----------



## deli99

String said:


> I was having the usual dropout problems during the Football game yesterday. I change the channel on the second tuner to 0, and the problems stopped. I wonder if it is only an issue if the 2 tuners are both set to HD channels.


String,

Was this during the Sunday Night Football game? I was having a lot of problems with that one (received on channel 85, the NBC Los Angeles HD station). Lots of pixelization and audio stuttering and drop-outs. The worst I've seen it on my 3-month old box.


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## aprest

I am having the dropout problem on all four of my HR10-250 HD Tivo STBs. Three had 6.3a and I bought another one with 3.1.5f at Circuit City last week for $199 as an open box. I made the mistake of leaving the phone line connected and by Saturday it had 6.3a installed. I Tivo'ed "The O.C." off Fox on one of the HR10s that had 6.3a and the one that had the older software (before it upgraded on Friday night). There were several dropouts on the one with 6.3a and none on the one with the older software. I am now getting dropouts on both FOX and NBC here in Maryland. I haven't seen dropouts from the satellite programs.

Today I talked with "Chris" in DirecTV's Advanced Technical Support and she admitted right up front that they have a problem and are working on a software fix (since about last Thursday) but she had no estimated time for the fix. She recommended that I set the unit to not record in Dolby Digital as an interim fix. I told her that was unacceptable. She transferred me to Customer Retention and I talked with "John" for about 30 minutes. I told him that I am pissed and that they had better put a flame under the asses of the staff working on a solution. I have been a DirecTV customer for 10 years and have seven STBs. I told him that I have FIOS Internet service and that if the problem isn't solved by the time Verizon starts offering TV service here in Montgomery County Maryland (which is soon) I will cancel my DirecTV service, buy four Tivo Series 3 HD STBs and sign up with Verizon. John tried to convince me to switch out the four HR10-250 STBs for four HR20-700 STBs with a special deal that wasn't very exciting. I told him that was a big problem because I love Tivo and because of the problems in installing a new Ku/Ka dish, additional coax runs, no way to diplex OTA onto the Ku/Ka coax cable feeds, the lack of OTA capability on the HR20-700 STBs, and the cost of replacing my $500 Spaun 4X12 multiswitch. His head was spinning!

Everybody on this forum needs to contact DirecTV and tell them that they want this problem solved and solved FAST.


----------



## toms111la

aprest said:


> Everybody on this forum needs to contact DirecTV and tell them that they want this problem solved and solved FAST.


I agree! Phone early and phone often!


----------



## hybucket

I just got off the phone with a very nice lady at Customer Retention. I told of my problems with dropped audio and shortened recordings. I also told her to check to see that I spend close to 200 bucks a month on D* at various locations. She put me on hold for five minutes, and came back with the exciting news that, yes, they were aware of the audio problem. Why, she even said that it first had been reported on November 1st!!! She then put me on hold again, and came back to inform me there had been NO reports of any shortened recordings. ANywhere. None. She then told me she has an HR-10 and has the 6.3a update and has had no problems. She also told me that the techs and CR's all read the forums (this one included), and they are NOT a source of information, because we're all windbags. Well, she didn't use that word, but said the forums are filled with MISINFORMATION. I asked her that if at least a dozen people are having the same problem with the same unit, was that "misinformation." SHe then said she'd be glad to swap my unit for another HR-10. WHen I suggested that D* wasn't really pushing that unit any more, she said they had plenty in stock to use as replacements, if that's what I wanted. I said what I wanted was a fix, or I was going to Comcast. She said that I'd probably have problems with them as well. All in all, an enouraging conversation. Tomorrow, I'll call Comcast and see what they're offering. Unbelievable.


----------



## aprest

Is there any way I can print out all the posts on this forum as one long epistle and mail it as an attachment to a letter to the President of DirecTV (and others at DirecTV and press people) ? I am getting more pissed everyday about the ignorance and/or arrogance of DirecTV support people.

The only way we are going to get this fixed is to threaten publicly to sink their boat.


----------



## aprest

hybucket said:


> I just got off the phone with a very nice lady at Customer Retention. I told of my problems with dropped audio and shortened recordings. I also told her to check to see that I spend close to 200 bucks a month on D* at various locations. She put me on hold for five minutes, and came back with the exciting news that, yes, they were aware of the audio problem. Why, she even said that it first had been reported on November 1st!!! She then put me on hold again, and came back to inform me there had been NO reports of any shortened recordings. ANywhere. None. She then told me she has an HR-10 and has the 6.3a update and has had no problems. She also told me that the techs and CR's all read the forums (this one included), and they are NOT a source of information, because we're all windbags. Well, she didn't use that word, but said the forums are filled with MISINFORMATION. I asked her that if at least a dozen people are having the same problem with the same unit, was that "misinformation." SHe then said she'd be glad to swap my unit for another HR-10. WHen I suggested that D* wasn't really pushing that unit any more, she said they had plenty in stock to use as replacements, if that's what I wanted. I said what I wanted was a fix, or I was going to Comcast. She said that I'd probably have problems with them as well. All in all, an enouraging conversation. Tomorrow, I'll call Comcast and see what they're offering. Unbelievable.


I suggest that you start with Advanced Technical Support and stay on their case until they admit the problem and make sure they fill in your account record with an admission of the problem and then ask to be transferred to Customer Retention who should be looking at your file of the discussion that you just had. Also get names for your record. We need to work together to force them to pay attention.


----------



## hybucket

The Customer Retention person told me that I should go to the D* site and submit a "feedback" form. I asked her what good that would do when she already said that the techs read this forum and they should be already aware of the problems, and what possible good would my "feedback" email do. She had no answer for that one. She said that while I was on hold she had spoken to advanced tech support, and that's where she was getting the info such as the "November 1st" thing, and the fact that NO ONE had reported shortened recordings. I agree that the only way they are going to fix these problems is by making this public. You can be sure that D* does NOT want the public to think that their DVR is unreliable, and I would certainly say that shortened recordings at just about any time and two or three audio dropouts of 10 seconds each per show are extremely unreliable. In most major cities, there are consumer reporters on the local stations that would just love to get hold of this. Boston (where I am) has Hank Phillipi Ryan on the NBC affiliate who does a really good job with this sort of thing and I"m sure other markets have a similar venue. Let them start losing high-paying customers and they will make a public statement, at the very least, even if there is no fix yet. At least, LET THEM ADMIT THE PROBLEMS. I do get names every time I call. I also ask them to make sure that my call appears on my record, but of course there's no guarantee that they actually do that. I still find it amazing there aren't more out there who are screaming their heads off about this, particularly those of us spending big bucks every month for an unreliable service.


----------



## ravedog

I don't think there is a "shortened programs" problem. I think its a crash and reboot problem. Am i correct in thinking that most of us are viewing these "short" shows later from their Lists? If so, then my supposition is that the unit crashed during the show and after it rebooted, it never picked up where it left off. And since we weren't there to see it crashing, we think there is a short problem.

As far as crashing.... mine (6.3) is doing iit like no ones business - when it never happened prior to 6.3. 

When calling D* about these problems - i recommend that anyone having these crashes _ and i have seen them while watching LIVE TV, you really emphasise this as well.

This of course is in addition to the adio problems.


----------



## ElectricPickle

DirecTV 3rd Quarter Stockholder Report Wednesday

The DIRECTV Group, Inc. Earnings Conference Call (Q3 2006) 
Scheduled to start Wed, Nov 8, 2006, 11:00 am Eastern

DirecTV, EchoStar subscriber growth seen slowing 


> "I think the writing's on the wall that cable's going to be able to deliver more video services and, with time, superior video services than satellite," said William Kidd, an analyst at Ladenburg Thalmann.
> 
> DirecTV, which is set to report results on Wednesday, is betting it can reduce customer losses by raising the bar for new subscribers with tighter credit checks. That reduces subscriber growth, though it raises the proportion of higher value customers according to executives


Earnings Preview: Satellite Television 


> Cable companies' bundling of data, voice and video services, known as the triple play, has been cutting into subscriber gains at DTV and Dish over the past few quarters, leading to speculation at the start of the quarter that the two companies might merge to combat cable's resurgence. But most analysts agreed such a union wouldn't pass antitrust muster.





> A court upheld a ruling that Dish DVRs infringe Tivo patents. The initial ruling gave EchoStar 30 days to pull its DVRs from 1 million subscribers, but that was stayed by an appeals court. The decision is still up in the air, but EchoStar may be forced to license the technology from TiVo.





> Operationally, EchoStar has been growing at a faster clip than DirecTV, but DirecTV said it expected the slowdown because of its larger base and the introduction a year ago of a policy to target customers less likely to skip monthly payments and more likely to purchase extra services.


----------



## toms111la

hybucket said:


> I just got off the phone with a very nice lady at Customer Retention. I told of my problems with dropped audio and shortened recordings. I also told her to check to see that I spend close to 200 bucks a month on D* at various locations. She put me on hold for five minutes, and came back with the exciting news that, yes, they were aware of the audio problem. Why, she even said that it first had been reported on November 1st!!! She then put me on hold again, and came back to inform me there had been NO reports of any shortened recordings. ANywhere. None. She then told me she has an HR-10 and has the 6.3a update and has had no problems. She also told me that the techs and CR's all read the forums (this one included), and they are NOT a source of information, because we're all windbags. Well, she didn't use that word, but said the forums are filled with MISINFORMATION. I asked her that if at least a dozen people are having the same problem with the same unit, was that "misinformation." SHe then said she'd be glad to swap my unit for another HR-10. WHen I suggested that D* wasn't really pushing that unit any more, she said they had plenty in stock to use as replacements, if that's what I wanted. I said what I wanted was a fix, or I was going to Comcast. She said that I'd probably have problems with them as well. All in all, an enouraging conversation. Tomorrow, I'll call Comcast and see what they're offering. Unbelievable.


I, like most everyone here has experienced audio drops after 6.3a update. This is the first I have noticed someone mention shortened recordings but perhaps they have been discussed on another forum. Anyway, for what its worth, I also noticed at least 4 or 5 instances of shortened recordings very soon after the update was installed. I discovered something unusual regarding what I thought were shortened recordings. First, to be clear, what I experienced looked like this: After selecting a 30 min program from the now playing list, the information panel showed a 17 min recording and was designated as "partial". The first few times, I simply deleted the recording, not wishing to bother watching a partial program. On a later occasion, I had set to record two different 30 min programs at the same time and both of them indicated partial 17 min recordings. The really weird thing that I discovered was that when I watched the supposedly shortened programs, the entire 30 min show was present! It was like the clock in the TIVO unit was somehow malfunctioning such that what was reported to be a 17 min partial recording was actually 30 min of material. Even the green progress bar showed 0-17 min while watching the show but all 30 min was present. This has not happened to me lately but it did happen at least 6 times within the first 2 weeks after the update. I know that these units sometimes do reboot on their own which can causes a true partial recording. That is what I assumed had happened the first few times that I dumped the recording. The "time warp" phenomenon that I experienced is hard to explain but I assure all that it did happen. All I am suggesting that if you happen to end up with what looks like a shortened recording, run through at high speed and make sure you are actually missing some of the recorded material.


----------



## hybucket

In my instances of partial recordings, they were ACTUAL partial recordings, as I FF'd thru to make sure. ALso, I do not believe it is caused by a rebooting of the unit. When my unit reboots, it always loses the 30-second skip. I have not lost the "skip" after any of these partial recordings, so I don't think that's the situation. 
The audio skips on last night's PRISON BREAK (FOX, of course, OTA) were ridiculous, and even tho it's only 8-10 seconds, I missed what was probably important dialogue. The bottom line again is, the unit is unreliable. Imagine if this was happening with any other kind electronic unit - the general public would not tolerate this, they would demand a refund.
UPDATE: Yesterday, the CR said the best way to report the problems I was experiencing was to go to the D* site and submit a feedback email. She said the tech would reply to me with a detailed response within 24 hours usually. So this morning I said, what the heck, so I sent a detailed report of what my problems were. This is the response I got within 5 minutes. Suprised? Not me.

_Thanks for writing. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.

Sincerely,

Lisa D.
100136485
DIRECTV Customer Service_

So I called tech support (call me a masochist). This CR immediately said they are aware of the problems. They were first reported on November 2nd. Wonder what happened to the problem reported on November 1st, which was the date they gave me yesterday? I obviously have too much time on my hands.


----------



## String

deli99 said:


> String,
> 
> Was this during the Sunday Night Football game? I was having a lot of problems with that one (received on channel 85, the NBC Los Angeles HD station). Lots of pixelization and audio stuttering and drop-outs. The worst I've seen it on my 3-month old box.


Nope. Fox NFL Sunday. 1 PM Cowboys at Redskins OTA.


----------



## mle_ii

ElectricPickle said:


> DirecTV 3rd Quarter Stockholder Report Wednesday
> 
> The DIRECTV Group, Inc. Earnings Conference Call (Q3 2006)
> Scheduled to start Wed, Nov 8, 2006, 11:00 am Eastern
> 
> DirecTV, EchoStar subscriber growth seen slowing
> 
> Earnings Preview: Satellite Television


And if cable doesn't take them out of business perhaps Xbox 360 eventually will...
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/20061106-moviestv.htm


> Watch Movies and TV On Your Xbox
> Redmond, WashingtonOn November 6, Microsoft Corp. announced agreements with CBS, MTV Networks, Paramount Pictures, Turner Broadcasting System Inc. (TBS Inc.), Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), and Warner Bros. Home Entertainment to bring an initial lineup of more than 1,000 hours of hit television shows and movies to Xbox 360 consoles in the U.S. by the end of the year. Additionally, Xbox 360 will be the first gaming console to bring standard and HD TV shows and movies to the customer via digital distribution over the Internet.


----------



## gcrow

I noticed that two HD programs I previously recorded OTA from our local PBS affiliate developed skips in both audio and to a lesser extent video which made them unwatchable after updating to 6.3. I called DirectTV and they didn't mention there was a massive problem (I discovered this forum later). I assumed it was a hard drive problem and allowed them to send a replacement unit. 

My second HR10-250 is showing audio skips in standard definition recordings (from satellite) which were made before its update. The skips are very infrequent and short so I'm living with them. 

I have not seen any skips in new recordings made after the updates, but have not recorded a lot. So far, I have Dolby 5.1 turned on because I use optical output to feed a processor. If the problem shows up in new recordings, I'll try turning it off.


----------



## BoltonHill

Can I just say this: Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh to most everyone who upgraded to 6.3(a) after Oct 12. These threads have had NIGHTMARE stories about this upgrade! I unplugged my phone line and guess what? 3.1f and my OTA is AWESOME! No video drop outs, no pixilation, Dolby Digital is phenomenal! I still LOVE my HR10-250!! Both of my units were purchased in Sept 2004 and they're running like champs!

Ok... as the Fantastic Four's Torch says.... "flame on!"

Oh... I forgot to tell my 80 y/o dad to disconnect HIS phone line (I'm such a bad son!) so he WAS experiencing everything everyone else is talking about. Retention p-ssed him off and Cox Cable offered him total replacements at no cost AND (prolly because of his age and ungrateful son... yeah he blamed it all on me even though he follows these boards more then I do!) 6 months FREE. <sigh> I've been with D* for 10 years and while I hate the HR20 (have two in my guest bedrooms)... let them suffer!, if I had to go through what y'all are talking about I'd lose it too! Best to all who upgraded... hope a decent fix comes soon so the rest of us can get folders and a faster operating system!


----------



## fasTLane

No flame here. Did the same.


----------



## CessnaDriver

Ok, add me to the list of people with audio drop outs.

We lost sound 3 times for about 8-10 secs each time while watching the Country Music Awards last night over the satellite.

(no country music jokes please)


----------



## sdchrgrboy

BoltonHill said:


> Can I just say this: to most everyone who upgraded to 6.3(a) after Oct 12. These threads have had NIGHTMARE stories about this upgrade! I unplugged my phone line and guess what? 3.1f and my OTA is AWESOME! No video drop outs, no pixilation, Dolby Digital is phenomenal! I still LOVE my HR10-250!! Both of my units were purchased in Sept 2004 and they're running like champs!
> 
> Ok... as the Fantastic Four's Torch says.... "flame on!"
> 
> Oh... I forgot to tell my 80 y/o dad to disconnect HIS phone line (I'm such a bad son!) so he WAS experiencing everything everyone else is talking about. Retention p-ssed him off and Cox Cable offered him total replacements at no cost AND (prolly because of his age and ungrateful son... yeah he blamed it all on me even though he follows these boards more then I do!) 6 months FREE. <sigh> I've been with D* for 10 years and while I hate the HR20 (have two in my guest bedrooms)... let them suffer!, if I had to go through what y'all are talking about I'd lose it too! Best to all who upgraded... hope a decent fix comes soon so the rest of us can get folders and a faster operating system!


Well I have 6.3a on both machines and I have experienced not a single issue, I repeat, not a one. I am loving the folders and faster speed. So I say Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh to you who is stuck with old software. I'll bet there are thousands of people out there with no problems as well.


----------



## bigcb37

I too have been having audio dropouts after the update. Saw it on Desperate Housewives OTA HD feed. Hope they come up with a fix soon. I like the speed after the update but the audio issue is a total step backwards...


----------



## fasTLane

sdchrgrboy said:


> I am loving the folders and faster speed. So I say Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh to you who is stuck with old software.


Well, thank yo lucky stars!

How some of us see it:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't.
Where there's smoke there's fire.
Curiosity killed the cat.
Better safe than sorry.

-Unplugged and waiting.


----------



## toms111la

sdchrgrboy said:


> Well I have 6.3a on both machines and I have experienced not a single issue, I repeat, not a one. I am loving the folders and faster speed. So I say Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh to you who is stuck with old software. I'll bet there are thousands of people out there with no problems as well.


Do you use OTA channels? Just curious. I bet you are right that many folks don't have a problem. It seems to me as someone who is having the problem that it is a little hit or miss as to the signal being broadcast by local OTA channels. Most of the problems seem to be Fox and I did have some during the baseball series but I really have not had much problem with Fox since then. I watched a new House and a new Bones last week and all seemed ok. My main problem is with my local CBS affiliate and I am getting at least 2 or 3 full 10 sec drops per hour. I agree that the improvements in speed and folders is great. I have not seen any problem with HD programs coming from D*.


----------



## Bob_Newhart

bigcb37 said:


> I too have been having audio dropouts after the update. Saw it on Desperate Housewives OTA HD feed. Hope they come up with a fix soon. I like the speed after the update but the audio issue is a total step backwards...


I liked the speed at first. But I could swear that the guide has slowed down again. When I page up on the guide, there is a 2-3 second delay for it to re-populate, where when it first got updated it seemed more like a second or so.


----------



## bwaldron

sdchrgrboy said:


> Well I have 6.3a on both machines and I have experienced not a single issue, I repeat, not a one. I am loving the folders and faster speed. So I say Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh to you who is stuck with old software. I'll bet there are thousands of people out there with no problems as well.


None of us using 3.1.5f are "stuck" with the old software. We have made a choice to stay with (or revert back to) this version.

I can deal with the slowness much more easily than the new audio dropouts that I immediately saw after the upgrade. I went back and am perfectly happy with 3.1.5f, pokey as it is sometimes.

Glad you're not having problems with the upgrade.


----------



## sdchrgrboy

toms111la said:


> Do you use OTA channels? Just curious. I bet you are right that many folks don't have a problem. It seems to me as someone who is having the problem that it is a little hit or miss as to the signal being broadcast by local OTA channels. Most of the problems seem to be Fox and I did have some during the baseball series but I really have not had much problem with Fox since then. I watched a new House and a new Bones last week and all seemed ok. My main problem is with my local CBS affiliate and I am getting at least 2 or 3 full 10 sec drops per hour. I agree that the improvements in speed and folders is great. I have not seen any problem with HD programs coming from D*.


I don't use much OTA, however I do record a few programs including one program on Fox OTA which is out of Tijuana, not sure if that matters. I haven't experience any audio dropouts on it however.


----------



## Cajonkev

Oh XETV gets drop-outs too....

Or I guess I should say that I get drops on all my OTA (including the aforementioned XETV from TJ) as well as D* network feeds like NBC-LA.


----------



## chuckbernard

Ok, so add me to the list too. 30 second audio dropouts are common place now. 
To me, they have destroyed my own personal equipment that I paid over $800 for. They didn't ask me if I wanted their update. They just did it and now it is frustrating to watch TV because I never know when the next dropout will occur.

I'm going to call them and raise some hell.


----------



## cp1966

I have the audio dropouts on fox HD OTA on my HR10-250, but not if I watch the same channel via the attic antannae. It does seem odd that most complaints are regarding the Fox affiliates


----------



## lordbah

The dropouts ruined House last night for me.


----------



## steven-h

lordbah said:


> The dropouts ruined House last night for me.


Weird I had no dropouts during House however, my box rebooted itself shortly before House came on.


----------



## aprest

This has probably been asked before but what is the simplest was to revert back to 3.1.5f from 6.3a on all four of my HR10-250 STBs? I added an additional Weaknees 250GByte hard drive to two of them. I have a PC that I could use to make the change if necessary.

BTW I am having dropouts on both FOX and NBC not just on FOX.


----------



## bradfjoh

lordbah said:


> The dropouts ruined House last night for me.


Agreed -- it was really bad the first 1/2 hour. I was about 10 min in when I switched over the other tuner to record House in SD - that recording began at minute 32.

I couldn't stand watching it in SD though, so I decided to give it one more chance and there were not any dropouts in the 2nd half where there were probably 4-5 in the first half hour.


----------



## nmarrion

The number of drop-outs during last night's (OTA) House was the straw that broke the camel's back...I finally picked up the phone to complain to DirecTV.

(as reported elsewhere the Retention # no longer works without a PIN)

As usual it took three transfers to speak with someone who acknowledged the audio drop out problem, post 6.3/6.3a even existed. All I could be told was that the problem will be fixed in a future software update (no target date) and that the work around is to switch off Dolby Digital...

I was also told that this problem was first reported by a Customer on 11/1...

So for me it comes down to a simple choice...switch to watching my wife's programs in SD or dumping DirecTV. I am leaning towards leaving DirecTV and buying a series 3 Tivo and moving to Comcast.


----------



## rod456

nmarrion said:


> The number of drop-outs during last night's (OTA) House was the straw that broke the camel's back...I finally picked up the phone to complain to DirecTV.
> 
> (as reported elsewhere the Retention # no longer works without a PIN)
> 
> As usual it took three transfers to speak with someone who acknowledged the audio drop out problem, post 6.3/6.3a even existed. All I could be told was that the problem will be fixed in a future software update (no target date) and that the work around is to switch off Dolby Digital...
> 
> I was also told that this problem was first reported by a Customer on 11/1...
> 
> So for me it comes down to a simple choice...switch to watching my wife's programs in SD or dumping DirecTV. I am leaning towards leaving DirecTV and buying a series 3 Tivo and moving to Comcast.


Couple of dropouts on House with Sat HD Feed as well.


----------



## AreBee

lordbah said:


> The dropouts ruined House last night for me.


House was pretty clean for me last night in Connecticut.

Previously the last time I watched Fox-HD OTA was Sunday's Cowboys/Redskins game and I was forced to switch to the Sunday Ticket Channel. I was having 15 second dropouts with 20-30 seconds in between them. It was horrible.

P.S. On Saturday I tried rescanning my OTA channels as someone reported as a possible fix. I saw NO improvement at any time. I also saw NO improvement when switching from DD to PCM.


----------



## ElectricPickle

After listening to todays stockholders meeting I have decided that DirecTV is not going in the direction that I want. Chase did mention that they were working on bugs in their advanced technology hardware and that customer support for advanced technology needs attention, but I think if DirecTV wants to keep me as one of the "high end" customers they are failing in the effort. We are only 10 percent of their customer base but we are the 90 to 100 percentile in revenue. DirecTV is basing their continued success on keeping and attracting the customers that use their High Definition DVR equipment, subscribe to premium HD packages and sports packages. In my opinion they are not supporting the hardware in a timely enough manner. We have invested a lot of money in these things and DirecTV does not seem to understand that. Nothing makes a technophile angrier than getting the run-around and being talked down to when trying to solve a problem. Im beginning my search to replace DirecTV.


----------



## PJO1966

ElectricPickle said:


> After listening to todays stockholders meeting I have decided that DirecTV is not going in the direction that I want. Chase did mention that they were working on bugs in their advanced technology hardware and that customer support for advanced technology needs attention, but I think if DirecTV wants to keep me as one of the "high end" customers they are failing in the effort. We are only 10 percent of their customer base but we are the 90 to 100 percentile in revenue. DirecTV is basing their continued success on keeping and attracting the customers that use their High Definition DVR equipment, subscribe to premium HD packages and sports packages. In my opinion they are not supporting the hardware in a timely enough manner. We have invested a lot of money in these things and DirecTV does not seem to understand that. Nothing makes a technophile angrier than getting the run-around and being talked down to when trying to solve a problem. Im beginning my search to replace DirecTV.


Well said. By "customer support for advanced technology needs attention" hopefully they mean that the CSRs should have the same if not more info than their high end customers do. I've already found my replacement (FiOS TV) but unfortunately it's not available in my area yet.


----------



## dbears

I've been having dropouts as well since the update. I now record all Fox shows on the NY feed (St. Louis' local is owned and operated by Fox so I still get Fox HD from NY). I don't know how much longer that will last . I didn't have any issues with House last night but I had probably four dropouts in Prison Break the night before OTA.

Thanks 

Mike (Da Bears 7-1)


----------



## deanooh

Last night I too had at least 3 or 4 Audio Dropouts that lasted 8-20 Seconds.. Very annoying. i feel like calling DirecTV and letting them know that there are many more out there that are having this problem. But I read on this board that they are definitely aware of the issue with 6.3.
Dean


----------



## Jungle1

Not that it matters much, but add me to the list.

I noticed several drop outs, usually about 10 seconds long, during the Lions/Falcons game on Fox OTA in Detroit.


----------



## Cajonkev

I know there is plenty of talk around Fox but I at least get drops on ALL of my HD feeds from both OTA and D*. Pick your network, pick your show and I've got em.

Here is the responce I received from D*:

" Subject 
HR10-260 Ver. 6.3a Problems 

Discussion Thread 
Response (Julius) 11/07/2006 09:48 PM 
Dear Mr. ,

Thanks for writing. I sincerely apologize for the technical concern you're having with audio dropouts on your HD DVR. Our Technical department is aware of the problem since it was first reported last 11/1/2006. A future software download will resolve the issue. In the mean time, as a short-term fix, please turn off Dolby Digital by following the steps below.

- Press DIRECTV button 
- Select "Messages & Settings," press SELECT 
- Select "Settings," press SELECT 
- Select "Audio," press SELECT 
- Select "Dolby Digital," press SELECT
- Select Dolby Settings, press SELECT

If you have any further technical questions, please call our technical support center and discuss the matter with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.

Sincerely,"

I know, I know...They new well before 11/1...


----------



## vikingguy

I get audio dropouts only on Fox OTA it is driving me nuts. I did not use DD sound so I figured I was safe guess not. They better get this fixed before bauer power hour starts in january or retentions will be getting a call.


----------



## jcricket

Yeah, the dropouts on House last night were really annoying. I had like 10 of them. I just turned closed-captioning on and left it on. That's the worst it's been for me.

I have DD turned off, btw, and it always has been (I don't have a surround sound system).


----------



## Brett Jason

"- Select Dolby Settings, press SELECT"

this says record in dolby digital, do you want to say yes or no?


----------



## litzdog911

Brett Jason said:


> "- Select Dolby Settings, press SELECT"
> 
> this says record in dolby digital, do you want to say yes or no?


With respect to the ~8-sec audio drop problem being discussed here, it does not matter how you set that.


----------



## Joe Jensen

I've had DD turned off since my first audio dropout weeks ago. Not sure it's just FOX, but I'm watching House now and it's really annoying...joe


----------



## Cajonkev

DD never matered for me DO's either.

As to the D*'s direction however, I printed it as they sent it so it remains unanswered. I think it would be fair to assume however they were wanting me to turn it "off".


----------



## vernsh

I got the 6.3a about 2 weeks ago and so far, everything has been fine.


----------



## Joe Jensen

10 second dropout tonight on the over the air PBS HD station. I think I have it on more than just FOX...joe


----------



## dthreet

I called DirecTv about this yesterday. They told me that this was a known issue and there would soon be a software update that would be fixing this problem. The temp fix was to turn off Dolby Digital, this will reduce this problem. Also some people experienced Green blurred screens. I tried this, it did helped. So guess when tivo gets to it there will be a 6.3.b


----------



## hybucket

I;ll bet that turning off the DD will not help your problem at all. BONES had two dropouts in the first five minutes, then....none.
Anyone checked into the Series 3 with Comcast?


----------



## Cwaters

I was advised today to turn off the DD. Told the coustomer no-service geek that wasn't an acceptable solution and he got mad. He put me on hold for five minutes and came back with "Have you checked your audio cables? You don't have a surround sound system, do you? You should try turning that off..."

Fricken joke, these guys.


----------



## hybucket

Again, the only thing to do is threaten to leave D* for whatever your alternative might be.
When Verizon first started their DSL service, the CSRs were just like D* - the standard answer was that they were not aware of any problem. It took them about two years to get their act together. Obviously, D* has been around long enough so we shouldn't have to put up with jokes like that.


----------



## sprocto2

Cwaters said:


> I was advised today to turn off the DD. Told the coustomer no-service geek that wasn't an acceptable solution and he got mad. He put me on hold for five minutes and came back with "Have you checked your audio cables? You don't have a surround sound system, do you? You should try turning that off..."
> 
> Fricken joke, these guys.


I am not sure what anyone really expects them to say? There is nothing anyone can tell you that will fix the problem. It's clearly broken, it needs a software update. While it may feel better to have a more official timeline, the units will be fixed on the same date whether you were aware of said date or not.

Calling to complain to emphasize the magnitude of the problem can't hurt I suppose. Telling them their canned response sucks, won't. IMO


----------



## bwaldron

sprocto2 said:


> I am not sure what anyone really expects them to say? There is nothing anyone can tell you that will fix the problem. It's clearly broken, it needs a software update. While it may feel better to have a more official timeline, the units will be fixed on the same date whether you were aware of said date or not.
> 
> Calling to complain to emphasize the magnitude of the problem can't hurt I suppose. Telling them their canned response sucks, won't. IMO


They might stop telling folks that turning off DD will help. It doesn't. Simply tell people it's a known problem and a fix is in development. (And apologize for the upgrade causing the issue.)


----------



## jcricket

Knowing how most call centers work, they're simply reading off a script. If you give them enough incidents/bugs that tell them the script is full of holes (i.e. Turning DD off doesn't fix it), those combined incidents will bubble back up to the people that write the scripts.


----------



## bwaldron

jcricket said:


> Knowing how most call centers work, they're simply reading off a script. If you give them enough incidents/bugs that tell them the script is full of holes (i.e. Turning DD off doesn't fix it), those combined incidents will bubble back up to the people that write the scripts.


Undoubtedly. At least they've updated the script so that every report is no longer the first time they've heard about the problem.


----------



## litzdog911

I thought they've updated their script to acknowledge the problem and tell folks that a software update is coming. Maybe that new script hasn't worked its way through all of the CSRs yet.


----------



## aprest

Well I have had it with the dropouts because of 6.3a. I am going to revert back to 3.1.5f on all four of my HR10-250 STBs. I succeded in doing that on one of my single drive HR10-250 STBs this morning. I spent $20 on an InstantCake software download, configured an old PC to do the upgrade and completed the installation of the 3.1.5f software on a new Seagate 250GB drive that I then installed in an HR10-250. Although I had some problems getting the InstantCake to work, once I sorted out and solved the PC hardware problems the update took less than ten minutes to complete. I lost the stuff that I had TIVOed but so be it. I am not about to connect the phone line until DirecTV has this problem fixed which may be never. 

Next step is to do the same thing to my two dual drive HR10-250 STBs and to my remaining single drive HR10-250 STB.


----------



## hybucket

This is all well and good for you and others who know all the techno stuff of how to roll back to 3.x, but what about the rest of us who must put up with these dropouts? Like you say, this may never be fixed. And we just let them get away with this and all the $ we shell out for unreliable equipment. No one should have to go thru what you describe above.


----------



## ravedog

not to mention the program only works on a PC (mac user here)...


----------



## ElectricPickle

I will just watch FOX Standard Definition until they patch it. If it takes too long though I'm outta here. Formatting and reverting the drive seems just a bit dramatic at this point.


----------



## hybucket

Dramatic? Anyone who does it should send D* a bill for their time and expenses!


----------



## rod456

Cwaters said:


> I was advised today to turn off the DD. Told the coustomer no-service geek that wasn't an acceptable solution and he got mad. He put me on hold for five minutes and came back with "Have you checked your audio cables? You don't have a surround sound system, do you? You should try turning that off..."
> 
> Fricken joke, these guys.


I guess D* just doesn't get it that part of the HD experience is the DD sound and they ask their HD customers to turn it off, what piece of Cr*&.......


----------



## JonR

After my unit froze and rebooted which it has never done I again called DirecTv to get an update on when they will release the assumed 6.3b update and the DVR specialist did acknowledge the audio dropout issue but she had NO time frame on when the issue would be resolved. I decided then I had enough and took matters into my own hands and purchased Instant Cake from PTVupgrade ($20.00) and re-imaged my system back to 3.1.5f. It was a fairly simple procedure even though I still had to call DirecTv because my DVR status became inactive but the DVR specialist had that situation resolved very quickly.

Guess what? Recorded and watched "Live Tv" OTA including Fox / CBS with NO issues including the dreaded 6.3a audio dropout. I'm now a very happy camper as my unit is back operating as before (as designed) with the exception of having the phone line unplugged.

When and what will the HR10 do because I've left the phone line disconnected until a working patch is downloaded?

Thanks,
John


----------



## aprest

hybucket said:


> This is all well and good for you and others who know all the techno stuff of how to roll back to 3.x, but what about the rest of us who must put up with these dropouts? Like you say, this may never be fixed. And we just let them get away with this and all the $ we shell out for unreliable equipment. No one should have to go thru what you describe above.


I understand and agree with you. Since I am one of the lucky few to have FIOS Internet service and Verizon will be providing video service within the next few months I will be voting with my feet and will cancel DirecTV service after 10 years. I am now paying for 7 DirecTV receivers four of which are HR10-250 STBs. Customer Retention was not very happy when I told them that and tried to cut a deal by giving me HR20-700 STBS at a discount. I went through the litany of problems involved with transitioning to these new inferior non-Tivo DVRs and he got real nervous. But I am not going to spend lots of money to DirecTV because they screwed this up. I plan to buy the new Tivo Series 3 HD STBs that can work with FIOS and cable inputs. Yes they are expensive but I can sell my 3.1.5f HR10-250 STBs on ebay for ~$300-350 each and cover half the cost of the new Tivo STBs. People that can get FIOS or cable TV service should also vote with their feet. The new Series 3 HD Tivo STBs with cable cards will get more HD channels, eliminate rain fade, not require pulling more coax, or new multiswitches.


----------



## Joe Jensen

aprest said:


> I understand and agree with you. Since I am one of the lucky few to have FIOS Internet service and Verizon will be providing video service within the next few months I will be voting with my feet and will cancel DirecTV service after 10 years. I am now paying for 7 DirecTV receivers four of which are HR10-250 STBs. Customer Retention was not very happy when I told them that and tried to cut a deal by giving me HR20-700 STBS at a discount. I went through the litany of problems involved with transitioning to these new inferior non-Tivo DVRs and he got real nervous. But I am not going to spend lots of money to DirecTV because they screwed this up. I plan to buy the new Tivo Series 3 HD STBs that can work with FIOS and cable inputs. Yes they are expensive but I can sell my 3.1.5f HR10-250 STBs on ebay for ~$300-350 each and cover half the cost of the new Tivo STBs. People that can get FIOS or cable TV service should also vote with their feet. The new Series 3 HD Tivo STBs with cable cards will get more HD channels, eliminate rain fade, not require pulling more coax, or new multiswitches.


Make sure you check out the video quality on the new service before you switch. I understand that this service will have a much lower bit rate than regular HDTV. DirectTV does this too. Looks at Discovery HD, awesome picture (they require high bit rate in the license agreement with DirectTV. The other HD channels don't and the pictiure is much lower quality...joe


----------



## iwantmyhdmitv

JonR said:


> After my unit froze and rebooted which it has never done I again called DirecTv to get an update on when they will release the assumed 6.3b update and the DVR specialist did acknowledge the audio dropout issue but she had NO time frame on when the issue would be resolved. I decided then I had enough and took matters into my own hands and purchased Instant Cake from PTVupgrade ($20.00) and re-imaged my system back to 3.1.5f. It was a fairly simple procedure even though I still had to call DirecTv because my DVR status became inactive but the DVR specialist had that situation resolved very quickly.
> 
> Guess what? Recorded and watched "Live Tv" OTA including Fox / CBS with NO issues including the dreaded 6.3a audio dropout. I'm now a very happy camper as my unit is back operating as before (as designed) with the exception of having the phone line unplugged.
> 
> When and what will the HR10 do because I've left the phone line disconnected until a working patch is downloaded?
> 
> Thanks,
> John


After a while your unit will throw up a nag screen reminding you to make a daily call. The only way I know of to avoid this screen is to keep your message folder empty.

Thanks to these forums, I was able to pull the phone cord in time before I was updated. I have been on a fresh HD with IC for the last 3 months, and the menu speed is still 90% as fast as the day I loaded it.


----------



## aprest

Joe Jensen said:


> Make sure you check out the video quality on the new service before you switch. I understand that this service will have a much lower bit rate than regular HDTV. DirectTV does this too. Looks at Discovery HD, awesome picture (they require high bit rate in the license agreement with DirectTV. The other HD channels don't and the pictiure is much lower quality...joe


Do you have a reference for FIOS having a lower bit rate? The forums I have been following generally have rave reviews about the FIOS picture quality. Fiber has immense bandwidth and should trounce cable and satellite when it comes to the need for compression. There have been negative coments about the Motorola FIOS STB but the reviews of the Tivo Series 3 STBs with cable cards on FIOS have generally been great once you get the cable cards to work with the FIOS system.

My FIOS data service has been outstanding with less than 2 hours of service outage in 14 months.


----------



## ElectricPickle

aprest said:


> ...... People that can get FIOS or cable TV service should also vote with their feet. The new Series 3 HD Tivo STBs with cable cards will get more HD channels, eliminate rain fade, not require pulling more coax, or new multiswitches.


FIOS is available only to a small percentage of the market at this point in time. Here in South Florida following the hurricanes, cable companies did a horrible job getting their systems back online. For most people it took weeks, some took months. At least with satellite you can put your dish back up and youre watching TV again - even under generator power.


----------



## hybucket

Satellite and cable both have advantages and disadvantages as far as weather-related problems. It depends on your location which is better - here in the Northeast, snow and ice fade in the winter are common occurrences, even with dish covers.


----------



## flemingljr

just to add one more to the list, ever since I got the 6.3 update, I'll get 2 or 3 audio dropouts per hour (each about 20 secs long, followed by a small video hiccup). I've only seen it on FOX OTA and some on CBS OTA, it's beyond annoying. I called DTV today, and they said to turn off DD, and switch to PCM and that a fix is coming. I hope it's soon :-(


----------



## flemingljr

I just tried changing the digital output from DD to PCM, and it didn't do anything. Has anyone tried recording in standard audio instead of DD? did it help?


----------



## litzdog911

flemingljr said:


> I just tried changing the digital output from DD to PCM, and it didn't do anything. Has anyone tried recording in standard audio instead of DD? did it help?


None of those settings will change this problem.


----------



## slydog75

OK, I upgraded to 6.3a shortly after it was released. Up until today I haven't been having any problems with the audio drop outs (at least not more than usual). However, today, the Steelers vs. Saints game is unwatchable! (and I don't mean because of the way Pittsburgh has been playing.. but that sure doesn't help my mood right now). Im getting about 10 to 50 second long audio drop outs CONSTANTLY. Maybe once a minute. After it comes back the screen flashes with pixelation and stutters for a second then it returns to normal. Has DIrecTV acknowledged this as an issue? I haven't been keeping up as I haven't had the problem until today. Should mention the game was on Fox OTA. HD or not didn't matter (the sub channel feed was not in HD).


----------



## N47H4N

hybucket said:


> I;ll bet that turning off the DD will not help your problem at all. BONES had two dropouts in the first five minutes, then....none.
> Anyone checked into the Series 3 with Comcast?


I had the exact same problem in BONES in the first five minutes too (Recorded OTA).
Must something in the DD singnal (from Fox or other broadcasts) that the TiVo software doesn't like. Fox seems to have the problem more often.
I have an HR10-250 and TosLink, got the update 3 weeks ago.


----------



## toms111la

flemingljr said:


> I just tried changing the digital output from DD to PCM, and it didn't do anything. Has anyone tried recording in standard audio instead of DD? did it help?


Everyone has tried it! It doesn't help.


----------



## Budget_HT

I finally got some audio dropouts on my local FOX HD station during commercials (on the early game today) and during local programming (during half time). Prior to today I had only observed dropouts during actual FOX network programs. 

Fortunately, I unplugged the phone line for my second HR10-250 before it installed 6.3, and it continues to work flawlessly.

Initially my dropouts were affecting FOX and ABC OTA (both happen to be 720p). Lately I am only seeing them on FOX.

This HR10-250/HDTV combination is using an HDMI connection with DD turned off in the HR10, so I too have experienced the dropouts with PCM audio. The HDTV will not accept a DD signal over HDMI.


----------



## twaller

OK....Fox OTA dropout problem finally showed up for me. 2 dropouts during Steelers Saints game on Fox. About 8 seconds each. DD is enabled, but it doesn't make any difference. No dropouts on the sat stations. All my SPs are set up for Channel 88 (Fox NY). Hopefully they won't show up there.


----------



## aprest

slydog75 said:


> Has DIrecTV acknowledged this as an issue? I haven't been keeping up as I haven't had the problem until today.


Yes they have after a lot of us used a cattle prod on them. I suggest that you call and ask for Advanced Technical Support and have them log your problem. The more people that complain the sooner this will get fixed (or maybe never??).


----------



## Mark Lopez

I too had my first instance of the dropout on FOX OTA during Bones (twice). I don't record much from that channel, so I had not noticed it before.


----------



## slydog75

aprest said:


> Yes they have after a lot of us used a cattle prod on them. I suggest that you call and ask for Advanced Technical Support and have them log your problem. The more people that complain the sooner this will get fixed (or maybe never??).


I'll be doing that tommorow for sure.


----------



## bwaldron

aprest said:


> Do you have a reference for FIOS having a lower bit rate? The forums I have been following generally have rave reviews about the FIOS picture quality. Fiber has immense bandwidth and should trounce fiber when it comes to the need for compression. There have been negative coments about the Motorola FIOS STB but the reviews of the Tivo Series 3 STBs with cable cards on FIOS have generally been great once you get the cable cards to work with the FIOS system.
> 
> My FIOS data service has been outstanding with less than 2 hours of service outage in 14 months.


FIOS does not transmit in HD-Lite as D* does.


----------



## aprest

bwaldron said:


> FIOS does not transmit in HD-Lite as D* does.


That's why it's called satel-LITE.


----------



## vjd3

I watched football all weekend; the only audio dropouts I got (and they were numerous) are on Fox OTA ... the HD DirectTV NFL feeds from Fox had no problems. I'm on 6.3 as well. I got them irregardless of whether I was using DD or the PCM output.

The 8 pm game on NBC was flawless, as was the local CBS feed on the Patriots game.


----------



## Joe Jensen

aprest said:


> Do you have a reference for FIOS having a lower bit rate? The forums I have been following generally have rave reviews about the FIOS picture quality. Fiber has immense bandwidth and should trounce cable and satellite when it comes to the need for compression. There have been negative coments about the Motorola FIOS STB but the reviews of the Tivo Series 3 STBs with cable cards on FIOS have generally been great once you get the cable cards to work with the FIOS system.
> 
> My FIOS data service has been outstanding with less than 2 hours of service outage in 14 months.


I have no test data to share. I have been told that the stream will be compressed not for bandwidth issues, but because of the storage requirements to time shift content. Might not be an issue if you live in a time zone that broadcasts live feeds, but here in the mountain states our content is all time shifted...joe


----------



## drjjr

vjd3 said:


> I watched football all weekend; the only audio dropouts I got (and they were numerous) are on Fox OTA ... the HD DirectTV NFL feeds from Fox had no problems. I'm on 6.3 as well. I got them irregardless of whether I was using DD or the PCM output.
> 
> The 8 pm game on NBC was flawless, as was the local CBS feed on the Patriots game.


I had one dropout on the NBC game last night (OTA). Of course dropouts during football aren't nearly as annoying as dropouts during a show. I had no dropouts on the HD Sunday Ticket game for the Steelers.

I think it's safe to say that the dropouts are unique to the unit and whatever else it might be doing while decoding an HD signal.


----------



## chris_h

aprest said:


> My FIOS data service has been outstanding with less than 2 hours of service outage in 14 months.


Interesting. I kinda expected the first few years of FIOS to be filled with cases of what is fondly refered to as "backhoe fade." Are you saying you have measured your uptime 24/7 for the last 14 months, or is this just a estimate based on the times you have tried to use it and it has not been available? If the latter, how much do you use it in a given week? Thanks in advance.


----------



## pkscout

Well, for the longest time we've only been seeing the audio drop outs on FOX. In the last week the drop outs on FOX have become so bad we finally just turned on closed captioning. On top of that we have now seen drop outs on ABC, CBS, and NBC. So that's now every OTA HD station we get. Grrr....


----------



## Smuuth

aprest said:


> Yes they have after a lot of us used a cattle prod on them. I suggest that you call and ask for Advanced Technical Support and have them log your problem. The more people that complain the sooner this will get fixed (or maybe never??).


Another incentive to call and gripe about this (as if you should need any more incentive):

I called CS and complained about the audio dropouts since the 6.3a install. After the CSR read the standard script about turning off the DD recording, she admitted to there being a problem and that they were working on a software download fix. She then credited my account with 4 months free of the HD package as partial compensation for my inconvenience.


----------



## Ereth

pkscout said:


> Well, for the longest time we've only been seeing the audio drop outs on FOX. In the last week the drop outs on FOX have become so bad we finally just turned on closed captioning. On top of that we have now seen drop outs on ABC, CBS, and NBC. So that's now every OTA HD station we get. Grrr....


I've started moving all my OTA season passes to my Series 3.

This is really turning my once-beloved HR10-250 into a boat anchor.


----------



## rod456

vjd3 said:


> I watched football all weekend; the only audio dropouts I got (and they were numerous) are on Fox OTA ... the HD DirectTV NFL feeds from Fox had no problems. I'm on 6.3 as well. I got them irregardless of whether I was using DD or the PCM output.
> 
> The 8 pm game on NBC was flawless, as was the local CBS feed on the Patriots game.


NASCAR on NBC East Coast Channel 82 of D* SAT is unwatchable as well. Stopped watching it on HD and went to local SD D* SAT channel. It has been doing this since 6.3a, so it is not always a OTA issue, it happens with SAT as well, but could be an NBC/NASCAR problem as well.


----------



## newsposter

add cbs thurs and friday nights to my list. Moving all fox to my 3.1 was doable..moving all my cbs isn't


----------



## String

I have noticed that if I turn the other tuner to Channel 0, the dropouts stop. While it is not the best solution, I think it works.


----------



## hybucket

Since the dropouts are ON the recording, I can't see how putting the tuner on Channel 0 would make a difference in the playback. And you can't always put the other tuner on Channel 0 while it's recording.


----------



## toms111la

String said:


> I have noticed that if I turn the other tuner to Channel 0, the dropouts stop. While it is not the best solution, I think it works.


I can see how that might work. Others more skilled in earlier posts have posted log files demonstrating that the drop is a buffer overrun. If the second channel is not getting any data, it might allow the operating channel to utilize more of the resources and not outrun the buffer. Unfortunately, most of the time when I am recording one show, I am recording two shows. But in a rare situation when I want to watch one show live, it may help.


----------



## PJO1966

hybucket said:


> Since the dropouts are ON the recording, I can't see how putting the tuner on Channel 0 would make a difference in the playback. And you can't always put the other tuner on Channel 0 while it's recording.


Maybe String is referring to the other dropout issue, the one that is only a second or two and is not recorded in. Hitting the instant replay button takes care of the problem. I have this issue on everything I watch on my TiVo, from every channel. Actually this issue is far more common than the recorded in dropouts for me.


----------



## aprest

chris_h said:


> Interesting. I kinda expected the first few years of FIOS to be filled with cases of what is fondly refered to as "backhoe fade." Are you saying you have measured your uptime 24/7 for the last 14 months, or is this just a estimate based on the times you have tried to use it and it has not been available? If the latter, how much do you use it in a given week? Thanks in advance.


I work out of a home office for about sixty hours per week. I have an extensive network throughout my house (CAT-5, 2.4GHz and 5.0GHz wireless) feeding seven PCs. My wife uses it for about 20 hours per week and my son stays up half the night using it. If something goes wrong with my Internet service I have to reboot my network which used to happen two to three times per week with Comcast cable modem service. So my estimate is based on only having to reboot twice in fourteen months and being without service for very few hours. It has been incredible!


----------



## ratlhead

This audio dropout nonsense is getting DirecTV kicked to the curb once the NFL season ends.

I'm so friggin tired of the issues with DirecTV, and I refuse to try out their new bug-plagued HD-DVR. Time to move onto Series 3 Tivo/Comcast.


----------



## String

PJO1966 said:


> Maybe String is referring to the other dropout issue, the one that is only a second or two and is not recorded in. Hitting the instant replay button takes care of the problem. I have this issue on everything I watch on my TiVo, from every channel. Actually this issue is far more common than the recorded in dropouts for me.


No I am referring to the 8 second followed by the video blip. I think it might not overrun if it is only recording one channel. 2 weeks in a row, while watching Fox NFL sunday, the game was almost unwatchable. It was just so irritating. I changed the other channel to 0, and they dropouts stopped. I probably would have been better off, just turning off my struggling skins, but I just couldn't look away.

Give it a try and see if that helps if you are not recoding both channels.


----------



## Wilhite

String said:


> No I am referring to the 8 second followed by the video blip. I think it might not overrun if it is only recording one channel. 2 weeks in a row, while watching Fox NFL sunday, the game was almost unwatchable. It was just so irritating. I changed the other channel to 0, and they dropouts stopped. I probably would have been better off, just turning off my struggling skins, but I just couldn't look away.
> 
> Give it a try and see if that helps if you are not recoding both channels.


I hadn't really seen any issues until Monday night. I was watching a program in realtime on PBS HD OTA that started at 8pm. I didn't have any problems until the other tuner started recording CBS HD OTA at 8:30pm. The audio dropouts started on the PBS program a few minutes after the CBS recording started and continued through the end of the program at 9pm.


----------



## JohnTivo

My 2 cents...

When my box upgraded, I didn't see any audio or video drop outs for some time. It was only after I switched the default upgrade settings in the audio menu (to recording Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital output) and my drive was close to capacity that issues began. I started getting the drop outs and freezes on just about every show recorded. Even on shows that were recorded prior to the audio settings being changed.

Over the last 5 days, I've switched back to the default settings and tried to watch or delete shows to free up space on the drive.

I'm happy to report that I'm no longer getting the audio drop outs and video freeze issues on shows that I've recorded in the last few days. 

I do not know if my issues were a combination of the 6.3a bugs and bad sections of my drive. I was about to pull the drive and replace it.. but since things are back to "normal", I'll see how things go.


----------



## wozman57

chris_h said:


> I am seeing it too, but I thought it was an issue with the local fox affiliate. I see 10 to 15 seconds of clean video (with no audio) and at the end there is a little video burp (garbled picture) and then both audio and video are fine. I already deleted the recordings, and did not try to rewind to see if the problem was repeatable. I will try to be a little more thurough next time it hits, since it may not be a local issue.


If anybody is counting, I am seeing the same issue ...


----------



## hongcho

95124. DD to a preprocessor. (Sorry, I haven't followed all the discussion in this thread.)

I am starting to notice this as well. It's only on KTVU (Fox). I have not seen this on any other OTA channels. Also, I think it's only on the HD programmings since I did see this on "House" and "Vanished", but not on "Family Guy" (those three shows are what I record on HR10-250).

The behavior is that the audio goes away and it would come back after a minor glitch in the video. This leads me to believe that some signal gets lost (or being unable to decode) on the audio first and then when it re-syncs (with some video loss happening later) everything comes back.

Not sure exactly what the problem is. Maybe there is some bitstream incompatibility between the Fox HD stream and HR10-250.

I think KTVU is sending the network HD as is (that is, not re-encoding from the higher bitrate stream). Maybe, the 6.3a update changed some behaviors (whether it's the decoding speed or decoding the MPEG syntax).

Hong.


----------



## videojanitor

hongcho said:


> Not sure exactly what the problem is. Maybe there is some bitstream incompatibility between the Fox HD stream and HR10-250.
> 
> I think KTVU is sending the network HD as is (that is, not re-encoding from the higher bitrate stream). Maybe, the 6.3a update changed some behaviors (whether it's the decoding speed or decoding the MPEG syntax).


I conducted some tests earlier in this thread, but they are buried at this point! I'll summarize to save you (and others) the trouble of digging that up: It appears that 6.3a has a problem with SOMETHING in the bitstream -- that "something" appears at the output of certain boxes in the broadcast chain. Exactly what boxes, we don't know, but for let's just say it happens if the station uses box "A," "B," or "C."

Now, if box "A" is the FOX splicer, then the problem will apparent on ALL FOX affiliates, as this is supplied by the network and is required to put FOX HD on the air. Boxes "B" and "C" might be used by other stations, and thus the problem could appear there as well. If they don't use any of those boxes, no problems.

I know that box "A" (the FOX splicer) is one of the things that will cause this problem to occur, because if I take it out of the signal path (I work for a FOX affiliate and can do this kind of thing  ), the problem on the HR10 goes away. It has nothing to do with the network bitstream, as the problem happens during both network and local programming -- the only common box between those two things is the splicer.

This doesn't mean that the fault lies with the splicer, but rather, there's just something about what comes out of it that 6.3a doesn't like. Whatever that is, it can happen with other devices as well, but since all FOX stations use this device, it hits them most often.


----------



## Joe Jensen

videojanitor said:


> I conducted some tests earlier in this thread, but they are buried at this point! I'll summarize to save you (and others) the trouble of digging that up: It appears that 6.3a has a problem with SOMETHING in the bitstream -- that "something" appears at the output of certain boxes in the broadcast chain. Exactly what boxes, we don't know, but for let's just say it happens if the station uses box "A," "B," or "C."
> 
> Now, if box "A" is the FOX splicer, then the problem will apparent on ALL FOX affiliates, as this is supplied by the network and is required to put FOX HD on the air. Boxes "B" and "C" might be used by other stations, and thus the problem could appear there as well. If they don't use any of those boxes, no problems.
> 
> I know that box "A" (the FOX splicer) is one of the things that will cause this problem to occur, because if I take it out of the signal path (I work for a FOX affiliate and can do this kind of thing  ), the problem on the HR10 goes away. It has nothing to do with the network bitstream, as the problem happens during both network and local programming -- the only common box between those two things is the splicer.
> 
> This doesn't mean that the fault lies with the splicer, but rather, there's just something about what comes out of it that 6.3a doesn't like. Whatever that is, it can happen with other devices as well, but since all FOX stations use this device, it hits them most often.


Very cool. Do you have contacts at Tivo? If not, PM me...joe


----------



## hongcho

> I am starting to notice this as well. It's only on KTVU (Fox). 

Well, I have to revise my comment on this. I think I did see one on CW (Smallville) this week. However, it is true that it happens more frequently (and with longer durations) on KTVU.

Hong.


----------



## newsposter

audito issue migrated to ABC now....at least 1 minute of silence on Daybreak this week. Thankfully kicking to 480 and muting TV kicks in CC. I dont know if anyone else has this option but it's much easier than CC thru the tivo. And the SD pic still looks pretty good.


----------



## Brett Jason

unlike the majority who seem to have FOX OTA issues, my NBC OTA shows are virtually unwatchable due to audio drop out/pixelation. I'm going to switch my season passes to the SD version and see if that is watchable.


----------



## hybucket

SO....everyone is just accepiting the fact that we'll now just watch everything on SD instead of HD because of these D* problems. Duh. Anyone else find this unacceptable, considering there's little response from D* as to when this problem is going to be resolved?


----------



## steven-h

hybucket said:


> SO....everyone is just accepiting the fact that we'll now just watch everything on SD instead of HD because of these D* problems. Duh. Anyone else find this unacceptable, considering there's little response from D* as to when this problem is going to be resolved?


Not quite sure from reading here that all are calling D and filing complaints. This should be done every week not just one time until we get the desired response.


----------



## Adam1115

hybucket said:


> SO....everyone is just accepiting the fact that we'll now just watch everything on SD instead of HD because of these D* problems. Duh. Anyone else find this unacceptable, considering there's little response from D* as to when this problem is going to be resolved?


Not me, I'm canceling as soon as my S3 arrives.


----------



## chris_h

hybucket said:


> SO....everyone is just accepiting the fact that we'll now just watch everything on SD instead of HD because of these D* problems. Duh. Anyone else find this unacceptable, considering there's little response from D* as to when this problem is going to be resolved?


Some of us went back to 3.1.5f shortly after 6.3 came out due to our lack of confidence in Tivo / Directv getting a timely fix out. True that it is slow compared to 6.3, but I do not have any more audio drop outs.


----------



## ElectricPickle

steven-h said:


> Not quite sure from reading here that all are calling D and filing complaints. This should be done every week not just one time until we get the desired response.


This is true. Call every week and demand a discount until it's fixed. Eventually the service will be free.


----------



## JonR

> Originally Posted by *chris_h*
> _Some of us went back to 3.1.5f shortly after 6.3 came out due to our lack of confidence in Tivo / Directv getting a timely fix out. True that it is slow compared to 6.3, but I do not have any more audio drop outs._


Several weeks ago after many audio dropouts and one reboot I re-imaged my HR10 back to 3.1.5f and left the phone line unplugged from the latest 6.3a and my HR10 has performed flawlessly ever since. I agree that all the HR10 owners or at least all of us with issues need to apply pressure on D to resolve these bugs (software bugs) and issue a time line on their resolution.

The issue that bothers me the most is D's lack of beta testing as these bugs surfaced immediately upon installation. Many of us in this forum would have volunteered to test and provide feedback to D prior to mass distribution. Even Microsoft gave everyone Vista to test and debug so the end product would have fewer bugs when distributed to the masses.

John


----------



## aVOLanche

Someone needs to drop a LAWSUIT in D*s lap over the dropouts and partial recordings,and freezeups,and remote control issues......and the unwillingness to allow us to have 3.1.5 back until they get this fixed.


----------



## Tom_Parker

These audio drops are driving my family crazy. 

In the meantime I've been trying but can't re-scan OTA. The HD 10 asks for 3 thumbs down to confirm, but it won't take the "enter" signal.

Any go around?


----------



## phox_mulder

Tom_Parker said:


> These audio drops are driving my family crazy.
> 
> In the meantime I've been trying but can't re-scan OTA. The HD 10 asks for 3 thumbs down to confirm, but it won't take the "enter" signal.
> 
> Any go around?


Enter is not the same as "Select".

On the original peanut remote, enter is down on the bottom under the 9 button.

phox


----------



## newsposter

i think dtv should send you all a 2nd unit plus install just for fox and the other dropouts...this morning i was watching the news and side by side fox was perfect on 3.1 but not 6.3


----------



## Tom_Parker

phox_mulder said:


> Enter is not the same as "Select".
> 
> On the original peanut remote, enter is down on the bottom under the 9 button.
> 
> phox


This is about the dumbest oversight I've made in a long time. Next time I'll ask why I can't power up and someone will point out it needs to be plugged in.

Thanks - and hopefully this will address part of this maddening problem with audio.


----------



## Cody21

Doubtful ....  These are as you say, maddening.... YMMV



Tom_Parker said:


> Thanks - and hopefully this will address part of this maddening problem with audio.


----------



## Budget_HT

Tom_Parker said:


> This is about the dumbest oversight I've made in a long time. Next time I'll ask why I can't power up and someone will point out it needs to be plugged in.
> 
> Thanks - and hopefully this will address part of this maddening problem with audio.


Well, Tom, you have just joined a very large non-exclusive club of folks who were confused by having "select" and "enter" as separate buttons performing separate functions. Some of us joined the club a lot sooner than you, but the circumstances are nearly identical.

Welcome to the world of the not-so-obvious!


----------



## kroddy

Brett Jason said:


> unlike the majority who seem to have FOX OTA issues, my NBC OTA shows are virtually unwatchable due to audio drop out/pixelation. I'm going to switch my season passes to the SD version and see if that is watchable.


I had previously only ever actually noticed drop-outs on Fox, but yesterday watching the Eagles on KYW-DT CBS 3-1 in Philly I had at least three of the seven-seconds silence followed by a burst of pixels type drop outs. ironically the game wasn't even in HD... but I had set it up to record the HD because I didn't know that in advance.

it was not enough to render the game unwatchable... the Eagles were doing that all by themselves without any technical interference, but still very annoying... and final proof for me that this is not channel related, and getting me thinking about alternatives to D* unless a fix is found soon.


----------



## phox_mulder

I threw in the towel and moved all my FOX SP's over to my S3, and voila, no more audio dropouts,
on FOX programs that is.

I have, over the past couple of weeks noticed them on a couple CBS programs, Shark and CSI.

Haven't seen any on the only Satellite HD program I'm currently recording though, Dexter on SHO HD.


phox


----------



## aVOLanche

Am I correct in assuming that a new,replacement HR10-250 would have the old software(3.1)?I spent an hour on the phone with a "Tier 2 tech" from D* .He said this was the first he had heard of the problems with 6.3a.......jeeeez.He offered to send out a tech with 2 new HR10-250's to replace mine.Is this a no-brainer?He said "no charges" at all.


----------



## Packertivo

I got fed up after multiple reboots on one of my 2 units. I finally decided to call (retensions) with the intent of having them replace my 2 HR10-250's. After being put on hold for about 10 mintes, he came back and said they are aware of the issue and they are working on fix. He told me he was instructed that no replacement units were to be offered.

He offered me $125 credit which I took. I will wait a day or two and call back. I am tired of resetting my 30 second skip.


----------



## scott blair

aVOLanche said:


> Am I correct in assuming that a new,replacement HR10-250 would have the old software(3.1)?I spent an hour on the phone with a "Tier 2 tech" from D* .He said this was the first he had heard of the problems with 6.3a.......jeeeez.He offered to send out a tech with 2 new HR10-250's to replace mine.Is this a no-brainer?He said "no charges" at all.


They'll probably convert them to LEASED boxes and commit you for 2 more years.


----------



## aVOLanche

I'm already committed for almost 2 years.I'm more concerned that the replacement HR10-250s will be 3.1.5 software....and stay that way(don't new HR10-250s come with 3.1.5?And doesn't NOT plugging in the phone line keep the 6.3a software from being installed?).


----------



## hybucket

From what I was told by a CSR, any new units sent out are loaded with the latest updates which, in this case, would be the 6.x. 
Last night's PRISON BREAK was nearly unwatchable, with the dropouts. I don't care what the reasons, it's unacceptable and unreliable.


----------



## aVOLanche

Unbelievable.....more D* garbage.Here goes.I just spent another 20 minute phone call with a Level 2 Tech.He says that D* is sending out a new software upgrade over the next 2 days.He called it the "OXF6".I asked three times if this wasn't intended JUST for the HR20.The "tech" said "No,it's for all of our HD DVRs,including the HR10-250").
He acknowledged the dropout problem(but none of the other issues with the HR10-250).He said "You are in Tennessee?You will get the software upgrade at 1:30AM tomorrow"(i.e. late tonight).I'm not holding my breath on this one.


----------



## newsposter

funny..maybe hr20 software on our machines would help!


----------



## hybucket

I just did my weekly call to D*- talked to a rep who said an update is on the way, but had no time frame nor a designated name or # for it. She did say it would not be within the next two days, and credited by account 10 bucks a month for a year and a reduction in my premium pkg. as well. Wonder how much $ they're losing over all this...


----------



## nmarrion

I just called DirecTV again about the audio drop out problem. I last called 2 weeks ago. In my case my HR10-250 randomly rebooted twice for the first time last week too. I am not sure if this is a 6.3a issue or not.

After 3 transfers I was told by "advanced technical support" that the problem is known and there will be a software update. No date known when that would happen.

When I asked about financial compensation I was offered $10/off my HBO subscription for 6 months, but when I asked was told that I would be making a 12mth commitment if I accepted. I am not under contract commitment and I object to that given this problem is one that DirecTV caused to my unit that I paid nearly $1000 for.

I requested I speak to a Supervisor. One was not available and I have asked for a call back.

These guys are unbelievable...


----------



## hybucket

When the CSR gave me an "incentive" to hang around this AM, she said NOTHING about any committment. A "committment" for a problem that is theirs? They must be kidding.


----------



## nmarrion

I suggest you call back and verify that you are not now "committed"!


----------



## PJO1966

They re-up those commitments at the drop of a hat. My R-15 that I had purchased when they first came out died. They sent me a replacement. They re-upped me to a 2 year commitment when they replaced my faulty receiver without telling me. The only reason I found out is because I called to see how much time I had left to my commitment. I want to be able to jump ship to FiOS as soon as it is available. Supposedly they have removed any commitment from my account, but not before I raised a huge stink.


----------



## aprest

PJO1966 said:


> They re-up those commitments at the drop of a hat. My R-15 that I had purchased when they first came out died. They sent me a replacement. They re-upped me to a 2 year commitment when they replaced my faulty receiver without telling me. The only reason I found out is because I called to see how much time I had left to my commitment. I want to be able to jump ship to FiOS as soon as it is available. Supposedly they have removed any commitment from my account, but not before I raised a huge stink.


I wonder what recourse DirecTV has legally if we switch to FIOS, tell DirecTV that we are cancelling our service and refuse to pay any bill that they send us? I think I have no committment but I activated an open box HR10-250 (with 3.1.5f) that I bought at Circuit City for $199 about a month ago. The Circuit City box had a label on it that said it was either a store display or a customer return. When I set it up it came alive with the SD channels and HBO HD but not the channels I subscribe to so I called DirecTV and they activated it on my account. The best that I could tell was that it had been activated by someone that lives in Washington DC (I live in Maryland). I screwed up and left the phone line connected and ended up with 6.3a which I have "upgraded" to 3.1.5f with InstantCake. Anyway I don't see how DirecTV can claim a 2 year extension because I bought a "used" HR10-250 but they might try.


----------



## PJO1966

aprest said:


> I wonder what recourse DirecTV has legally if we switch to FIOS, tell DirecTV that we are cancelling our service and refuse to pay any bill that they send us? I think I have no committment but I activated an open box HR10-250 (with 3.1.5f) that I bought at Circuit City for $199 about a month ago. The Circuit City box had a label on it that said it was either a store display or a customer return. When I set it up it came alive with the SD channels and HBO HD but not the channels I subscribe to so I called DirecTV and they activated it on my account. The best that I could tell was that it had been activated by someone that lives in Washington DC (I live in Maryland). I screwed up and left the phone line connected and ended up with 6.3a which I have "upgraded" to 3.1.5f with InstantCake. Anyway I don't see how DirecTV can claim a 2 year extension because I bought a "used" HR10-250 but they might try.


Once you activated it, I can almost guarantee that they committed you for another two years. I would check. If they did, ask to speak with a manager and explain that you did not agree to a contract.

Unfortunately, if you refuse to pay any bill DirecTV sends you, they will simply hand it over to a collection agency. It will get messy from there.


----------



## toms111la

Has anyone noticed a problem with using the OTA signal meter since update? I know mine initially worked post-upgrade but someone on a local board said he was having problems getting his to work. I tried mine this morning and I get constant sound but no meter readings?? I restarted unit and will check this afternoon to see if problem fixed. Does anyone know if it is possible for D* and/or TIVO to make software changes which do not show up on information screen? Just curious.


----------



## EMoMoney

FWIW, I was at my outlaws for Thanksgiving and they have the same audio dropouts. A CSR told her that they would have a fix soon. I don't believe it for a second, but just thought I'd throw it out there.


----------



## leesweet

aprest said:


> I wonder what recourse DirecTV has legally if we switch to FIOS, tell DirecTV that we are cancelling our service and refuse to pay any bill that they send us?


You need to clear it up befor non-payment, since all they do is dump it to collections, and those third party goons don't care *why* you didn't pay, they just know they have a debt to collect and they will.

You really need to get it resolved before it getting to that stage. That's why it's good to have a lot of notes on your account that you own the boxes and/or that you called about the 6.3a issues a lot of times, that the service is unusable, that the HR20s they replaced your HR10s with were unsatisfactory, etc. (And if you are contemplating terminating, you may want to keep good notes. There's nothing stopping they from saying that they have no record of your umpteen earlier calls.  )


----------



## aprest

leesweet said:


> You need to clear it up befor non-payment, since all they do is dump it to collections, and those third party goons don't care *why* you didn't pay, they just know they have a debt to collect and they will.
> 
> You really need to get it resolved before it getting to that stage. That's why it's good to have a lot of notes on your account that you own the boxes and/or that you called about the 6.3a issues a lot of times, that the service is unusable, that the HR20s they replaced your HR10s with were unsatisfactory, etc. (And if you are contemplating terminating, you may want to keep good notes. There's nothing stopping they from saying that they have no record of your umpteen earlier calls.  )


I believe that you are right. I got the "card" group at DirecTV to change the used HR10-250 that I activated recently from "leased" to "owned". They then transferred me to Customer Retention (CR) and the lady I talked to was not very friendly. She claims that if you activate any STB (SD or HD) then you get a 12 month committment for SD or a 24 month committment for STBs like the HR10-250 and that I was committed until November 2008. I told her it was a used HR10-250 and she claimed it doesn't make a difference. I asked for her supervisor and she said she was the supervisor. I finally got her to say that someone will call me back within 72 hours. This experience with CR was unlike I ever experienced. They must figure that once they have you in a committment they don't have to be nice to you. DirecTV must be desparate. I went with DirecTV 10 years ago because I had had it with the cable companies. I bet that this is driven by Rupert Murdock who is ruthless in everything he does and it is ironic that he owns both DirecTV and FOX which has the biggest (but not the only) audio dropout problem. He is also the one that drove the replacement of the DirecTV Tivo STBs with inferior DVRs made by another company that he owns (the NDS Group). I wonder if a class action suit is a possibility?

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch


----------



## pmturcotte

This is what I heard from DTV:

"I'm sorry to hear about the audio drop outs you've experienced after the 6.3 software download on your system. We have identified the problem and our technical specialists are now working for a software download that will resolve the issue. In the meantime, the short-term fix that we can suggest is that you turn off the Dolby Digital option of your system. I know this is an inconvenience for you and I apologize for that."

No offer of an incentive to stay, nothing.

Recordings of last Thursdays CSI and this Mondays Prison Break were almost unwatchable. Just as you get to a real interesting or tense part, it would cut out. Driving me fricking insane


----------



## litzdog911

pmturcotte said:


> This is what I heard from DTV:
> 
> "I'm sorry to hear about the audio drop outs you've experienced after the 6.3 software download on your system. We have identified the problem and our technical specialists are now working for a software download that will resolve the issue. In the meantime, the short-term fix that we can suggest is that you turn off the Dolby Digital option of your system. I know this is an inconvenience for you and I apologize for that."
> 
> No offer of an incentive to stay, nothing.
> 
> Recordings of last Thursdays CSI and this Mondays Prison Break were almost unwatchable. Just as you get to a real interesting or tense part, it would cut out. Driving me fricking insane


This is the OLD advice. I thought they had updated this. Turning OFF your Dolby Digital Audio will not solve this problem. There are no workarounds (except recording your standard definition channel instead, or turning on Closed Captions to read the dialog you'll miss during the audio drops).


----------



## toms111la

pmturcotte said:


> In the meantime, the short-term fix that we can suggest is that you turn off the Dolby Digital option of your system. I know this is an inconvenience for you and I apologize for that.


Does anyone have an opinion as to whether this actually helps? I know it does not eliminate the problem but in my case it may have reduced the occurences. I guess there is no way to actually tell since the drops are so random.


----------



## Smuuth

toms111la said:


> Does anyone have an opinion as to whether this actually helps? I know it does not eliminate the problem but in my case it may have reduced the occurences. I guess there is no way to actually tell since the drops are so random.


The consensus opinion seems to be that it does NOT help. I know from my personal experience that it changed nothing in the frequency or severity of audio dropouts.


----------



## cheer

Smuuth said:


> The consensus opinion seems to be that it does NOT help. I know from my personal experience that it changed nothing in the frequency or severity of audio dropouts.


It fixes a different, unrelated audio problem; it does not fix the main "dropout" problem that people experience mostly on Fox.


----------



## Budget_HT

cheer said:


> It fixes a different, unrelated audio problem; it does not fix the main "dropout" problem that people experience mostly on Fox.


Can you recap that "different, unrelated audio problem" please?


----------



## jeepintivo

I've been having this problem on FOX in washington DC for about 2 months now. I just found this thread today as I thought I might have done something wrong when I setup my home theatre with the HR10-250. I called DTV tonight and after speaking with the first line and second line folks about some "future" upgrade that will fix this I went to customer retention as I am seriously thinking about leaving for FIOS or COX hd . They gave me a $5 a month HD channel package credit plus a $10 a month overall credit. Showtime was thrown in which is pretty worthless for me.

After noticing some of the latest threads about a commitment for a year after getting the discounts I called back yet again and got an employee name and ID who told me that there is no commitment. However he shows us only having a $5 a month overall credit (rather than $10) and a $5 hd credit. Our web account shows a $15 credit so I have no idea who to believe.

From the three people I talked to I have no reason to believe the audio dropout will be resolved anytime soon. My HD TIVO was already set to "down convert" Dolby Digital to PCM (I think this is a new setting with 6.3?) and that hasn't helped. I have gone back over several of my House and Prison Break records and found that the audio dropouts occur even after several replays just to confirm what others are saying.

I will be trying a COX DVR tomorrow most likely. FIOS is a bit harder to play with.

Prison Break and House are two of my favorite shows so this really stinks!


----------



## cheer

Budget_HT said:


> Can you recap that "different, unrelated audio problem" please?


Constant, very brief, audio dropouts on any channel with Dolby audio (OTA or satellite). They're part of the decoding/playback process, as if you rewind and play again the dropouts are in different spots. There's also no video artifacting associated with the dropouts.

If you get that one, turning DD output to PCM fixes it. (Not that that is an acceptable fix, but...)


----------



## Budget_HT

cheer said:


> Constant, very brief, audio dropouts on any channel with Dolby audio (OTA or satellite). They're part of the decoding/playback process, as if you rewind and play again the dropouts are in different spots. There's also no video artifacting associated with the dropouts.
> 
> If you get that one, turning DD output to PCM fixes it. (Not that that is an acceptable fix, but...)


Thank you. I had that problem for a long time, well before 6.3. But it seems to have stopped, also some time before 6.3 arrived. Right now I have one HD TiVo running 6.3 and the other running 3.1.


----------



## pmturcotte

jeepintivo said:


> I've been having this problem on FOX in washington DC for about 2 months now. I just found this thread today as I thought I might have done something wrong when I setup my home theatre with the HR10-250. I called DTV tonight and after speaking with the first line and second line folks about some "future" upgrade that will fix this I went to customer retention as I am seriously thinking about leaving for FIOS or COX hd . They gave me a $5 a month HD channel package credit plus a $10 a month overall credit. Showtime was thrown in which is pretty worthless for me.
> 
> After noticing some of the latest threads about a commitment for a year after getting the discounts I called back yet again and got an employee name and ID who told me that there is no commitment. However he shows us only having a $5 a month overall credit (rather than $10) and a $5 hd credit. Our web account shows a $15 credit so I have no idea who to believe.
> 
> From the three people I talked to I have no reason to believe the audio dropout will be resolved anytime soon. My HD TIVO was already set to "down convert" Dolby Digital to PCM (I think this is a new setting with 6.3?) and that hasn't helped. I have gone back over several of my House and Prison Break records and found that the audio dropouts occur even after several replays just to confirm what others are saying.
> 
> I will be trying a COX DVR tomorrow most likely. FIOS is a bit harder to play with.
> 
> Prison Break and House are two of my favorite shows so this really stinks!


Same problems here with the same shows and getting really sick of it. If it werent for the NFL package I would have left DTV a long time ago and certainly would have left over this nonsense. I think it will be months before they have this issue figured out.


----------



## hybucket

It has already BEEN months...2 1/2, to be exact. 
With more and more viewers finally coming to conclusion that it isn't because of the way their system is set up, I suspect that D* may finally realize that this is a bigger problem than they think, and will realize it in their pocketbooks.


----------



## pmturcotte

hybucket said:


> It has already BEEN months...2 1/2, to be exact.
> With more and more viewers finally coming to conclusion that it isn't because of the way their system is set up, I suspect that D* may finally realize that this is a bigger problem than they think, and will realize it in their pocketbooks.


Agreed. But how much do you think D* really gives a crap about whats going on? I mean good grief they are still using the "Oh yeah, we know about that, turn off Dolby Digital and that will fix it" excuse! They obviously dont care enough to change the CSR script!

I would rather hear this from a CSR "Yes, we are aware of it. Something happened during our last update that caused this and we are working on a solution. We're offering you $50 off your bill and free HD package until this is fixed."

Boom, thats it. 15 seconds, admit you know YOU screwed up. Dont keep prancing around with these pansy ass excuses. That bugs me 10x more than the issue itself.


----------



## hybucket

PM Turcotte:
I can't agree with you more!
No one who has the HD service should have to pay one dime for this until it is at the very least, reliable. I mean, I just can't imagine having to record something like PRISON BREAK, have it not record or have a shortened recording, and miss the whole damned plot!! If someone WANTS to take a chance on this, fine, but to have everyone PAY for his unreliable service is absurd. And probably, if there was a class action suit, illegal. Attorneys who are on this thing will no doubt beat this to death,


----------



## toms111la

hybucket said:


> PM Turcotte:
> I can't agree with you more!
> No one who has the HD service should have to pay one dime for this until it is at the very least, reliable. I mean, I just can't imagine having to record something like PRISON BREAK, have it not record or have a shortened recording, and miss the whole damned plot!! If someone WANTS to take a chance on this, fine, but to have everyone PAY for his unreliable service is absurd. And probably, if there was a class action suit, illegal. Attorneys who are on this thing will no doubt beat this to death,


What is it that you think is illegal? Do you think we should call the TIVO police?


----------



## hybucket

Oh, I was just kidding. There's nothing at all wrong with selling defective merchandise and charging a monthly fee for it. Some people just can't take a joke.


----------



## krbriesc

I had the same problem. Reboot will solve short term but it has happened again.


----------



## kroddy

I brought up the audio dropout problem as an aside after venting to the manager of an "advanced technical support" person about not being able to set up a recording for the England Australia cricket match tonight. 

She gave me the line about Tivo working on an update with no ETA at this time


----------



## krbriesc

Conspiracy Theory

DTV is trying to drive the TiVo lovers away so that the DVR they offer doesnt look like such a piece of crap. One of my SD TiVo went down. When I called to get the mirroring charge dropped till I could get the problem solved DTV talked me into their new and improved DVR that was better than TiVo. What a mistake; I ended up giving it to a friend. I havent herd from her since.


----------



## flemingljr

toms111la said:


> Does anyone have an opinion as to whether this actually helps? I know it does not eliminate the problem but in my case it may have reduced the occurences. I guess there is no way to actually tell since the drops are so random.


It does not fix the OTA audio dropout problem that lasts for about 10 sec's, with a small video hiccup at the end.

I take it DirecTV hasn't sent out an update with a fix for this yet? This is getting on my nerves, I wonder if they're thinking people will migrate to the new HD DVR, the longer they keep the fix on the shelf?


----------



## videojanitor

flemingljr said:


> I wonder if they're thinking people will migrate to the new HD DVR, the longer they keep the fix on the shelf?


I kinda doubt that, considering that the HR20 is still in short supply, and it's got bugs that are WAY more serious than this!


----------



## dturturro

Like no OTA at all?!


----------



## videojanitor

Yeah, well, there is that.


----------



## ElectricPickle

The season premier of "24" starts in January on FOX - If they don't have this fixed by the 15th then I'm out.


----------



## PJO1966

While I was watching TV last night the dropouts were coming 2 or 3 every minute. I was constantly hitting the instant replay button. It was a huge PITA. I called DirecTV to have my account noted for the third time. The girl I spoke with in tech support once again confirmed that they were aware of the problem and were working on it. Then she said something new... the official request for a fix was submitted on November 21st. I know everything that comes from the CSRs should be taken with a grain of salt, but this surprised me. I would hope that they've been working on solving this problem for longer than two weeks!


----------



## EMoMoney

ElectricPickle said:


> The season premier of "24" starts in January on FOX - If they don't have this fixed by the 15th then I'm out.


Yeah, with 24 and American Idol starting soon, I think D*'s in for a rude awakening.


----------



## MisterEd

What is "the instant replay button" ? Does that get the audio back after a dropout? What's funny is, I haven't barely had any Fox dropouts in like 10 days ... before them I was getting LOTS, and beofre THAT (when I first got 6.3a) I didn't get any (NY OTA).



PJO1966 said:


> While I was watching TV last night the dropouts were coming 2 or 3 every minute. I was constantly hitting the instant replay button. It was a huge PITA. I called DirecTV to have my account noted for the third time. The girl I spoke with in tech support once again confirmed that they were aware of the problem and were working on it. Then she said something new... the official request for a fix was submitted on November 21st. I know everything that comes from the CSRs should be taken with a grain of salt, but this surprised me. I would hope that they've been working on solving this problem for longer than two weeks!


----------



## Mark Lopez

PJO1966 said:


> While I was watching TV last night the dropouts were coming 2 or 3 every minute. I was constantly hitting the instant replay button. It was a huge PITA.


And that worked? It never has for me and I thought other reported the same thing (i.e. it's recorded that way). Perhaps you have a different problem.


----------



## tbb1226

EMoMoney said:


> Yeah, with 24 and American Idol starting soon, I think D*'s in for a rude awakening.


  as if...


----------



## tall1

hybucket said:


> It has already BEEN months...2 1/2, to be exact.
> With more and more viewers finally coming to conclusion that it isn't because of the way their system is set up, I suspect that D* may finally realize that this is a bigger problem than they think, and will realize it in their pocketbooks.


Do they carry pocketbooks? WTH is a pocketbook anyway?  I think this problem will have zero effect on D*'s business.


----------



## litzdog911

MisterEd said:


> What is "the instant replay button" ? Does that get the audio back after a dropout? What's funny is, I haven't barely had any Fox dropouts in like 10 days ... before them I was getting LOTS, and beofre THAT (when I first got 6.3a) I didn't get any (NY OTA).


Using the "replay" button will not cure the ~8-sec audio dropouts with Fox OTA channels.


----------



## PJO1966

There are two different audio issues that started with 6.3. The replay button only helps with the short audio dropouts, the ones that last for a second. I had been getting them more frequently that the 8-10 second dropouts that were recorded in.


----------



## bbadeaux

chris_h said:


> I am seeing it too, but I thought it was an issue with the local fox affiliate. I see 10 to 15 seconds of clean video (with no audio) and at the end there is a little video burp (garbled picture) and then both audio and video are fine. I already deleted the recordings, and did not try to rewind to see if the problem was repeatable. I will try to be a little more thurough next time it hits, since it may not be a local issue.


 I have the same problem with FOX OTA in Houston. Audio dropouts that last 5 to 10 seconds then a glitch in the video and the audio returns.

I wonder if this problem occurs when the station is broadcasting the network signal only?


----------



## videojanitor

Unless the station is bypassing the Terayon splicer during local programming (not likely, and not recommended!), then the problem will occur 24 hours a day.


----------



## DLR

The audio dropouts are getting worse IMO. We went from having one every 30-40 minutes a few weeks ago to five of them during a 30 minute program this week.


----------



## MisterEd

Is this dropout problem ONLY supposed  to happen with OTA recordings? I get it on my FOX MPEG*2* satellite recordings as well here in the NY area.


----------



## videojanitor

MisterEd said:


> Is this dropout problem ONLY supposed  to happen with OTA recordings?


Not necessarily. Although from the postings here, it is far more common on OTA, for some people (like yourself) it is happening on satellite content as well.


----------



## AreBee

My local Fox station dumped Bones last night for a UCONN basketball game picked up from ESPN+. Not one dropout.

Last time I watched House, the dropouts were as bad as I have ever seen. 

Is this the splicer issue you are talking about? 

EDIT: Just searched and found the results of videojanitor's experiment with the splicer.

Is there anything I can say to my Fox station?


----------



## videojanitor

AreBee said:


> Is there anything I can say to my Fox station?


Unfortunately, no. I work for a FOX station, and there's not a thing we can do about it. There is nothing wrong per se with what is passing through the splicer, however it's pretty clear that some parameter is causing a problem with 6.3a. I'd be a little more concerned if the problem was ONLY affecting FOX stations, but from all the evidence gathered here, it appears that does hit other stations on a random basis.

I'm rather surprised it is taking this LONG to fix this problem. What's it been now, three months?


----------



## hybucket

videojanitor said:


> Unfortunately, no. I work for a FOX station, and there's not a thing we can do about it. There is nothing wrong per se with what is passing through the splicer, however it's pretty clear that some parameter is causing a problem with 6.3a. I'd be a little more concerned if the problem was ONLY affecting FOX stations, but from all the evidence gathered here, it appears that does hit other stations on a random basis.
> 
> I'm rather surprised it is taking this LONG to fix this problem. What's it been now, three months?


IT will be three months for me on the 15th that I received the update and the assorted problems (dropped audio, shortened recordings) began. I call on a weekly basis, and get a different response each time I call. It doesn't matter if I talk to whoever happens to pick up, or if I go to advanced tech support. My guess - and it's strictly a guess - is that the lack of even TALKING about a fix is because they have either no idea what's causing it, or, they have no intention of fixing it. I tend to go with the latter. Again, for no reason whatsoever.


----------



## EMoMoney

hybucket said:


> My guess - and it's strictly a guess - is that the lack of even TALKING about a fix is because they have either no idea what's causing it, or, they have no intention of fixing it. I tend to go with the latter. Again, for no reason whatsoever.


You're absolutely correct. D* has no idea of what the issue is because the software is written by TiVo. I would guess that D* is involved with the testing process, but the ultimate fix will need to come from TiVo. Am I making an excuse for D*? No way. TiVo needs to come up with a fix for this issue and D* needs to demand that it be taken care of soon.


----------



## hybucket

EMoMoney said:


> You're absolutely correct. D* has no idea of what the issue is because the software is written by TiVo. I would guess that D* is involved with the testing process, but the ultimate fix will need to come from TiVo. Am I making an excuse for D*? No way. TiVo needs to come up with a fix for this issue and D* needs to demand that it be taken care of soon.


The less-than-friendly relationship between the two companies is what makes me think that a fix is a long ways away, if at all. The only thing that would make me think otherwise is that the problem also is happening with the TiVO series 3, so perhaps if they find a fix for that one, they just MIGHT share it with D*, with "might" being the key word. But I'll bet the folks with the Series 3 will have the fix before we do.


----------



## sluciani

MisterEd said:


> Is this dropout problem ONLY supposed  to happen with OTA recordings? I get it on my FOX MPEG*2* satellite recordings as well here in the NY area.


Are you talking about the same dropout problem? 5-8 seconds of silence and then a sub-second instance of video pixelation right before the sound comes back? Or very brief dropouts now and then, which are not a 6.3a-only issue. /s


----------



## litzdog911

Looks an update to solve this problem is coming soon ....
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=330528


----------



## EMoMoney

litzdog911 said:


> Looks an update to solve this problem is coming soon ....
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=330528


Yay!


----------



## PJO1966

Here's something interesting. I got my HD TiVo back to 3.x and I'm still having the playback audio dropouts (the ones resolved by hitting the replay button). I haven't recorded anything yet. It's sitting on HBO-HD.


----------



## cheer

PJO1966 said:


> Here's something interesting. I got my HD TiVo back to 3.x and I'm still having the playback audio dropouts (the ones resolved by hitting the replay button). I haven't recorded anything yet. It's sitting on HBO-HD.


Those type of dropouts aren't 6.3-related -- I thought they were for a long time but I experienced the same thing.

I've read others report that switching from HDMI to component resolves the problem -- have you tried that?


----------



## PJO1966

cheer said:


> Those type of dropouts aren't 6.3-related -- I thought they were for a long time but I experienced the same thing.
> 
> I've read others report that switching from HDMI to component resolves the problem -- have you tried that?


I don't have an available Component In to my TV. Besides, I don't see how that would affect the audio, it's hooked up to a receiver via optical.


----------



## Juppers

I had that issue until I replaced my optical cable.


----------



## cheer

PJO1966 said:


> I don't have an available Component In to my TV. Besides, I don't see how that would affect the audio, it's hooked up to a receiver via optical.


Because there appear to be some issues with HDMI on certain units, and the issue can exacerbate load issues on the box.


----------



## mkpd

Just another experience: 

I had a CRT HDTV with HDMI and I never had the audio dropout problem. Recently I purchased a KDL40XBR2 Sony LCD TV and now I get dropouts only on Live OTA HD or recorder OTA HD. I checked the older CRT again and didn't have a dropout while watching OTA HD. 

I suspect it is timing problem that the new TV is less tolerant of. 

I hope they can find a solution because these dropouts stink....


----------



## Adam1115

mkpd said:


> Just another experience:
> 
> I had a CRT HDTV with HDMI and I never had the audio dropout problem. Recently I purchased a KDL40XBR2 Sony LCD TV and now I get dropouts only on Live OTA HD or recorder OTA HD. I checked the older CRT again and didn't have a dropout while watching OTA HD.
> 
> I suspect it is timing problem that the new TV is less tolerant of.
> 
> I hope they can find a solution because these dropouts stink....


Do both TV's do DD 5.1?


----------



## mkpd

No - Both tv's don't have 5.1


----------



## sk33t3r

EMoMoney said:


> You're absolutely correct. D* has no idea of what the issue is because the software is written by TiVo. I would guess that D* is involved with the testing process, but the ultimate fix will need to come from TiVo. Am I making an excuse for D*? No way. TiVo needs to come up with a fix for this issue and D* needs to demand that it be taken care of soon.


Why would Tivo care. about patching the software? I think it all about money!!!

D** is pushing their own DVRs without Tivo software. This all could be a way for D** to switch everyone over to a HR20 with their own crappy software. MY hr10 is still at 3.1.5f and zippered so it will not update at all, it has downloaded the updates but hasent installed and I havent sliced it to 6.3.


----------



## fasTLane

Just wonder how many 3.1 devotees there are out there in tv land. Chalk one up here in Georgia. Merry Christmas.


----------



## EMoMoney

sk33t3r said:


> Why would Tivo care. about patching the software? I think it all about money!!!
> 
> D** is pushing their own DVRs without Tivo software. This all could be a way for D** to switch everyone over to a HR20 with their own crappy software. MY hr10 is still at 3.1.5f and zippered so it will not update at all, it has downloaded the updates but hasent installed and I havent sliced it to 6.3.


That doesn't make sense. D* does not write the software for the HR10-250s. It's all TiVo software. TiVo cared enough to convince D* to allow the 6.3 upgrade in the first place. If they have any hopes of true devoted TiVo users dumping D* after the MPEG4 push to buy series3 units, they should have an interest in patching the software.


----------



## jcricket

The conspiracy theorists need to remember the following aphorism: "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity"

As evidenced by the shoddy state of the HR20 when released, and the many problems in virtually every current DVR, I'd say that companies selling/building DVRs are regressing. Judging by the recent releases, they are acting like they sell general purpose PCs, where the level of testing is not nearly as high as a consumer electronics/embedded device.


----------



## crwmlw

Is the HR20 any better than the HR10-250 with regards to the audio dropouts? Is it worth getting yet and can you record off air Hd programming?


----------



## EMoMoney

crwmlw said:


> Is the HR20 any better than the HR10-250 with regards to the audio dropouts? Is it worth getting yet and can you record off air Hd programming?


I have not noticed any audio dropouts on my HR20 like the HR10-250 problem. Yes, OTA was activated a couple of weeks ago. D* has been releasing SW updates pretty regularly to make it more stable. I was a little worried at first because the MPEG4 locals were terrible, but they have improved in quality 10 fold, which I understand is not the sole responsibility of D* but rather the local affiliates as well.


----------



## bwaldron

crwmlw said:


> Is the HR20 any better than the HR10-250 with regards to the audio dropouts? Is it worth getting yet and can you record off air Hd programming?


I have no problems with dropouts on the HR20. Nor do I have them on the HR10 with 6.3b (or 3.1.5).

The HR20 w/ the latest software records OTA, and the tuner seems slightly better WRT multipath rejection.

The HR10 is still my main DVR, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.


----------



## hybucket

bwaldron said:


> I have no problems with dropouts on the HR20. Nor do I have them on the HR10 with 6.3b (or 3.1.5).
> 
> The HR20 w/ the latest software records OTA, and the tuner seems slightly better WRT multipath rejection.
> 
> The HR10 is still my main DVR, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.


Don't know about anyone else, and it could be specific to Boston's OTA ABC affiliate, but I am now getting a considerable amount of audio dropouts on it, more than I get on the local FOX OTA. I'm still on 6.3a/


----------



## steven-h

hybucket said:


> Don't know about anyone else, and it could be specific to Boston's OTA ABC affiliate, but I am now getting a considerable amount of audio dropouts on it, more than I get on the local FOX OTA. I'm still on 6.3a/


I had quite a few last night on ABC here in Louisville, KY. I have 6.3a.


----------



## crwmlw

So would it be safe to say that if I went with the HR20 I should be ok?


----------



## videojanitor

crwmlw said:


> So would it be safe to say that if I went with the HR20 I should be ok?


You would be safe in regards to audio dropouts, but unsafe in other ways. The HR20 is very much a "work in progress," and many people experience serious problems (like missed recordings) which would be considered much worse than audio dropouts. I personally would not switch to the HR20 *just* to get rid of the audio dropouts, since you will not have that problem once your machine gets 6.3b.


----------



## crwmlw

Ok thanks for that input, I'll hold off. Wonder how long before I get 6.3B??? Its these audio dropouts and short recordings that are driving me nuts.


----------



## videojanitor

You could get 6.3b today -- you just never know. The rumor mill says that all machines are supposed to have it by mid January. 

Now as for the "short recordings," there hasn't been any evidence that 6.3b fixes that problem. That problem seems a lot more random than the audio issue.


----------



## dturturro

EMoMoney said:


> I was a little worried at first because the MPEG4 locals were terrible, but they have improved in quality 10 fold


Has the PQ improved that much or are you just used to it now?


----------



## crwmlw

Does anyone with the 6.3b notice if it works regarding the audio dropouts?


----------



## toms111la

crwmlw said:


> Does anyone with the 6.3b notice if it works regarding the audio dropouts?


I have only had it since Saturday but I watched the station that was the worst in my area for many hours yesterday and did not have one drop. It is early for me but the improvement seems unquestionable.


----------



## hybucket

toms111la said:


> I have only had it since Saturday but I watched the station that was the worst in my area for many hours yesterday and did not have one drop. It is early for me but the improvement seems unquestionable.


Same here - I used to get a dozen dropouts an hour on the local ABC OTA, now get none. It's been a few days.


----------



## crwmlw

Ok I did a forced download and now its been saying loading data for over an hour? Is it stuck or will it take that long? Also has anyone who received the 6.3B noticed that fixed the short recordings as well?


----------



## mhn2

crwmlw said:


> Ok I did a forced download and now its been saying loading data for over an hour? Is it stuck or will it take that long? Also has anyone who received the 6.3B noticed that fixed the short recordings as well?


Mine did this for 2 days. It would not let me force a call because it said it was downloading data or something. When it finally finished it said "Pending Restart" which means you have recv'd the 6.3b upgrade.


----------



## crwmlw

Ok thanks I'll wait


----------



## crwmlw

Well thats the first time that ever happened, Said loading data for about 14 hours then this morning it said call succeeded no pending restart, so I restarted it and no 6.3b. Maybe it was just locked up. I tried another forced call after that and it went right thru with no update. Looks like I'll be the last one to get 6.3b just like before.


----------



## bmw528is

You also need to upgrade your dish with the HR-20......correct? Also, the average price to upgrade to the HR-20 is running about $99?


----------



## PJO1966

bmw528is said:


> You also need to upgrade your dish with the HR-20......correct? Also, the average price to upgrade to the HR-20 is running about $99?


At this point, you only need to upgrade the dish if you need to get the MPEG-4 channels. Otherwise the HR-20 will pull in the same channels you get now with the HR10-250.


----------



## imposterxyz

I have 2 HR10-250's, one of which upgraded to 6.3b on Sunday, but the other is still on 6.3a (don't ask me why; I made the phone calls at the same time). I decided to turn the BCS title game on both receivers and PIP'ed them, and I waited to hear the audio dropout on the 6.3a receiver. Swapped the PIP, backed up on the buffer, no dropout on the 6.3b receiver. Excellent.

But wait, at 9:00, the 2d tuner on the 6.3b receiver attempted to switch to record an SP, and it froze and rebooted. This receiver had NEVER spontaneously rebooted before. So did they fix one bug and give us another one? Argh!!


----------



## mroe

I also have the 6.3 upgrade. I have a non-hacked unit, that I have a DTV protection plan on. Haven't had any problems what so ever until the 6.3 upgrade. I've had the audio drop outs mainly on over the air fox channel. Shows like House, etc. Just about every show on the over the air channels especially fox I'm getting the drop outs on. Now that my favorite show, 24 is on, these drop out are really pissing me off. So I'm trying the switching to PCM audio, plus I'm trying to record from a standard sat channel too. Just to see if the drop outs happen on that channel. Will let you know what I get on Tuesday.


----------



## HSW

imposterxyz said:


> I have 2 HR10-250's, one of which upgraded to 6.3b on Sunday, but the other is still on 6.3a (don't ask me why; I made the phone calls at the same time). I decided to turn the BCS title game on both receivers and PIP'ed them, and I waited to hear the audio dropout on the 6.3a receiver. Swapped the PIP, backed up on the buffer, no dropout on the 6.3b receiver. Excellent.
> 
> But wait, at 9:00, the 2d tuner on the 6.3b receiver attempted to switch to record an SP, and it froze and rebooted. This receiver had NEVER spontaneously rebooted before. So did they fix one bug and give us another one? Argh!!


My 6.3b TiVo also rebooted a 9:00 PM central. No audio dropouts on Fox though.


----------



## aprest

mroe said:


> I also have the 6.3 upgrade. I have a non-hacked unit, that I have a DTV protection plan on. Haven't had any problems what so ever until the 6.3 upgrade. I've had the audio drop outs mainly on over the air fox channel. Shows like House, etc. Just about every show on the over the air channels especially fox I'm getting the drop outs on. Now that my favorite show, 24 is on, these drop out are really pissing me off. So I'm trying the switching to PCM audio, plus I'm trying to record from a standard sat channel too. Just to see if the drop outs happen on that channel. Will let you know what I get on Tuesday.


Have you tried a forced call to see if you can trigger the upgrade from 6.3a to 6.3b? Switching to PCM audio won't help and you will only get audio dropouts on OTA channels.


----------



## bmw528is

PJO1966 said:


> At this point, you only need to upgrade the dish if you need to get the MPEG-4 channels. Otherwise the HR-20 will pull in the same channels you get now with the HR10-250.


Received 6.3b Friday. So far, no audio dropouts during the OTA Fox NFL playoffs this weekend, which was a switch. No other differences that I can tell.

Correct, the only reason for me to get the HR-20 would be for MPEG-4.......just wasn't sure if I had to have a tech come out and install a new dish (again).


----------



## jtb

Got 6.3b Saturday,no audio dropouts watching the Bears game, but it froze up three times, had to pull the plug.


----------



## EMoMoney

I'd be curious to know how many more calls D* will receive Tuesday night/Wednesday morning when all the soccer moms and teenage girls experience the dropouts watching American Idol.


----------



## mroe

Well I recorded 24 off of Fox on the sat channel and the same time on the HD channel which is off the OVA antenna. I started watching the recorded HD versions and started hearing the drop outs, switghed over to the other recorded version off the sat channel, and had no drop outs. It would seem DTV has a problem dealing with the audio portion of the OVA signal. As much as I like the HD version clearity, it just isn't worth it to have to deal with all the audio drops. Until DTV can start having the locals broadcast over the sat channel rather than over the air, I'm recored my shows off the sat channels, screw the HD locals.


----------



## paulandtricia

Running 6.3b. Experiencing signifanct audio dropouts accompanied by video stutter (but no pixellation). It is especially bad with HD programming. Note I am running satellite signal only, no OTA antenna. I belive the problem relates to digital audio, since I can see my receiver getting alternating dolby digital / dolby pro-logic signals. This happens concurrently with the audio/video stutter. Lasts anywhere from 3-5 s, video freezes, then starts and sometimes audio will "catch up" from the delay and thus be out of sync with the video portion. 

Anyone have any suggestions??? I do not believe it is a hard drive issue because of the absence of pixellation. This problem has been present for sometime, but seems to have gotten MUCH worse after the upgrade.

I smell a class action lawsuit if D* continues to ignore what is clearly a problem for many users. Has anyone gotten acknowledgement from D* of the problem? Any potential solutions available, or on the horizon?


----------



## EMoMoney

paulandtricia said:


> I smell a class action lawsuit if D* continues to ignore what is clearly a problem for many users. Has anyone gotten acknowledgement from D* of the problem? Any potential solutions available, or on the horizon?


I haven't seen many posts here indicating significant audio dropouts on 6.3b. I've only had 6.3b for a couple of days, but no audio dropouts yet.

As far a a lawsuit for ignoring the problem? I don't think D* is ignoring the problem. Albeit slow (not entirely D*s fault), they did address the problems with 6.3a. If D* doesn't know there is a significant problem with 6.3b, they can't fix what they don't know about. The reason I say it's not entirely D*s fault is the SW comes from TiVo, not D*.


----------



## aprest

paulandtricia said:


> Running 6.3b. Experiencing signifanct audio dropouts accompanied by video stutter (but no pixellation). It is especially bad with HD programming. Note I am running satellite signal only, no OTA antenna. I belive the problem relates to digital audio, since I can see my receiver getting alternating dolby digital / dolby pro-logic signals. This happens concurrently with the audio/video stutter. Lasts anywhere from 3-5 s, video freezes, then starts and sometimes audio will "catch up" from the delay and thus be out of sync with the video portion.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions??? I do not believe it is a hard drive issue because of the absence of pixellation. This problem has been present for sometime, but seems to have gotten MUCH worse after the upgrade.
> 
> I smell a class action lawsuit if D* continues to ignore what is clearly a problem for many users. Has anyone gotten acknowledgement from D* of the problem? Any potential solutions available, or on the horizon?


I am not having any of those problems with 6.3b on four HR10-250 STBs after about a month.


----------



## toms111la

The only problem I had with 6.3a was the audio drops on OTA stations. My worst and longest drops were on my CBS station and my PBS station. I had short drops only on Fox and no drops at all on ABC and NBC. After the 6.3b upgrade everything is better but not perfect. I have had no problems on FOX, ABC or NBC. I'm not sure about PBS but I am continuing to have some minor problems with CBS. The drops are still happening but now are much shorter. Before upgrade, 7-10 seconds. Now only about a second (maybe less) followed by the pixilation and full recovery. These drops are not fixed by rewinding. It seems that something that my CBS station is doing is still causing some sort of buffer overrun but the upgrade causes the unit to recover much quicker. Note: I also have a Sony HD DVR and I have recorded the same program coming off the same antenna and the Sony does not drop so I am pretty certain it is not a reception problem.


----------



## bmw528is

Have 6.3b now for 10 days watching Fox OTA frequently..........no audio problems at all. Think I will be using the HR10-250 for quite awhile.


----------



## Joe Jensen

I've now had 6.3b and it's solved the audio problem, but I'm still having reboots. I very rarely (maybe once in 3 or 4 months) had reboots before 6.3a. I have the Tivo on a UPS which may have helped. Since 6.3a and now with 6.3b I've having a reboot almost every day. I'm convinced the reboots are related to 6.3. Is there anyone with 6.3 a or 6.3b that is not having reboots this frequently?...joe


----------



## dturturro

Ok, I finally got 6.3 b but I'm still getting very brief rapid fire drop outs on OTA stations. I reset the recorder and still no improvement. It looks (or sounds rather!) like the short dropouts that were happening on non OTA stations with DD. I'm really ready to give up on this box! Any suggestions?


----------



## bmw528is

Haven't had reboot yet.


----------



## RexB

Joe Jensen said:


> I've now had 6.3b and it's solved the audio problem, but I'm still having reboots. I very rarely (maybe once in 3 or 4 months) had reboots before 6.3a. I have the Tivo on a UPS which may have helped. Since 6.3a and now with 6.3b I've having a reboot almost every day. I'm convinced the reboots are related to 6.3.
> 
> *Is there anyone with 6.3 a or 6.3b that is not having reboots this frequently?...joe*


I've not had reboots since getting 6.3b five days ago, not much time but no probs at all. Audio DD5.1 is good on all OTA channels.

With 6.3a there were several reboots which cleared up after unplugging/plugging in the unit a couple of times.

This HR10-250 and v6.3b-01-2-357 software is working as advertised for me, knock on wood, I'll keep it until forced to change. It is unfortunate and maddening that other units/software are having the problems, so I feel blessed.


----------



## aprest

Joe Jensen said:


> I've now had 6.3b and it's solved the audio problem, but I'm still having reboots. I very rarely (maybe once in 3 or 4 months) had reboots before 6.3a. I have the Tivo on a UPS which may have helped. Since 6.3a and now with 6.3b I've having a reboot almost every day. I'm convinced the reboots are related to 6.3. Is there anyone with 6.3 a or 6.3b that is not having reboots this frequently?...joe


I am not having reboot problems on my 3 hacked 6.3b units or my unhacked 6.3b unit. The hacked units have TivoWebPlus and Crond installed and you can check how long the unit has been running since the last reboot. The units automatically reboot once a week to clean things out. The units typically run 7 days and then reboot.


----------



## dturturro

So am I the only one still having audio issues with 6.3b?


----------



## Budget_HT

dturturro said:


> Ok, I finally got 6.3 b but I'm still getting very brief rapid fire drop outs on OTA stations. I reset the recorder and still no improvement. It looks (or sounds rather!) like the short dropouts that were happening on non OTA stations with DD. I'm really ready to give up on this box! Any suggestions?


These don't sound like the typical 6.3a OTA audio dropouts that I experienced and others reported.

Perhaps you have a different issue. Here is a long shot for you: I had similar symptoms to yours about a year ago and I was ready to get a replacement when I discovered that the optical audio connector was not properly seated in the receptacle on the back of the HR10-250. I must have somehow dislodged it when I was adding other equipment and connections in my rack. Once I re-inserted the optical cable connector, the problem went away and everything has been fine since.


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## aprest

dturturro said:


> Ok, I finally got 6.3 b but I'm still getting very brief rapid fire drop outs on OTA stations. I reset the recorder and still no improvement. It looks (or sounds rather!) like the short dropouts that were happening on non OTA stations with DD. I'm really ready to give up on this box! Any suggestions?


In addition to the optical cable you might want to check the signal strength from your antenna to see if it is jumping around on the channels where you are getting dropouts. You should also check the audio settings on your HR10-250 since they are different than the way they were on 3.1.5f and can also get changed during the upgrade to 6.3a and to 6.3b.

I assume that you are feeding your audio through an AV receiver that is Dolby Digital capable - is that the case? If so check the AV receiver settings and both ends of the optical cable.


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## rcbray

Budget_HT said:


> These don't sound like the typical 6.3a OTA audio dropouts that I experienced and others reported.
> 
> Perhaps you have a different issue. Here is a long shot for you: I had similar symptoms to yours about a year ago and I was ready to get a replacement when I discovered that the optical audio connector was not properly seated in the receptacle on the back of the HR10-250. I must have somehow dislodged it when I was adding other equipment and connections in my rack. Once I re-inserted the optical cable connector, the problem went away and everything has been fine since.


I've had the same problem. My cable would somehow work itself loose. I had to get another cable.


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## PJO1966

I had the same problem. In my case it started with the frequent but brief audio dropouts, then I got the overheating message. It ended up being the power supply. Just something to keep an eye out for.


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## willie_tee

dturturro said:


> So am I the only one still having audio issues with 6.3b?


No, I'm still having the audio drop-outs with 6.3b. Its no better than 6.3a with respect to those drop-outs. Guess D* will offer me another 3 months of Showtime free, sheesh.
Bill


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## Fuego

Never had a single audio drop-out with 6.3a but now experiencing them frequently under 6.3b (have had it for about two weeks now) on both OTA and SAT channels. Most of my HD recording is from OTA stations (all are strong). 14 dropouts during the 2 hour season premier of 24, and 12 during the next two hour episode the following night - as an example. Very frustrating!


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## rkittler

I'm also encountering dropouts but only on the optical output, the analog output is fine. I changed the optical cable and swapped inputs on the processor to no effect. The sound is OK most of the time there are periods where it sputters as if the optical signal is weak and the processor cannot deal with it. Sometimes it will go out altogether for a few minutes. Another strange symptom, although it may not be related, is that when I do a power-off/on reboot it often comes up with a split screen with the colors reversed. I then have to do another soft reboot to clear this problem. Ideas?


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## Joe Jensen

After a ron of internet forum research, and a erronious "overheating" failure, I decided to replace my power supply ( www.weaknees.com ). this has fixed the rebooting problem so far. suggest you do some reading on this board about power supply issues. I think the power supply design is marginal, and maybe a lot of power supplies are failing at 2 years...joe


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## rkittler

Thanks. I'll research the PSU-related threads.


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## Cadilon

6.3b on HR10-250 here and the audio dropouts are far worse than they were with 6.3a. Just watched Heroes from last night and got about 10, 2-3 sec droputs. This seems to happen on all stations, not just Fox. I am using DD5.1. Guess I'll have to try PCM.


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## aprest

Cadilon said:


> 6.3b on HR10-250 here and the audio dropouts are far worse than they were with 6.3a. Just watched Heroes from last night and got about 10, 2-3 sec droputs. This seems to happen on all stations, not just Fox. I am using DD5.1. Guess I'll have to try PCM.


I have no problems with any of my four HR10-250 STBs that now have 6.3b (6.3a was awful but the dropouts were ~10 seconds followed by brief pixelation of the picture). You might want to check your antenna and cables.


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## Joe Jensen

Cadilon said:


> 6.3b on HR10-250 here and the audio dropouts are far worse than they were with 6.3a. Just watched Heroes from last night and got about 10, 2-3 sec droputs. This seems to happen on all stations, not just Fox. I am using DD5.1. Guess I'll have to try PCM.


Consider the new $49 power supply too. I had reboots every couple of days with 6.3b, and since the new power supply, no reboots and no audio dropouts...joe


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## mobilelawyer

aprest said:


> I have no problems with any of my four HR10-250 STBs that now have 6.3b (6.3a was awful but the dropouts were ~10 seconds followed by brief pixelation of the picture). You might want to check your antenna and cables.


I am happy to report the same result. I "cleared everything" after the 6.3b update, and the problem seemed to go away. No other known problems at this time, knock on wood.


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## Cadilon

Joe Jensen said:


> Consider the new $49 power supply too. I had reboots every couple of days with 6.3b, and since the new power supply, no reboots and no audio dropouts...joe


I woke up this morning to a "The unit has overheated and been shutdown message." It did it two more times after I pulled the plug to restart. It eventually worked. From what I read this sounds like a power supply. What do you guys think?


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## dturturro

FYI I called about the $199 lifetime service transfer:

This is currently an "unadvertised special". I called once and was told know, called a 2nd time and was told to call 877-367-8687, go to billing and ask for a manager. They are not actually transferring your lifetime over but selling a new lifetime for $199. As a result, you get to keep the lifetime on the DirecTiVo if you so choose.


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## Joe Jensen

Cadilon said:


> I woke up this morning to a "The unit has overheated and been shutdown message." It did it two more times after I pulled the plug to restart. It eventually worked. From what I read this sounds like a power supply. What do you guys think?


Mine was giving an overheating message when the unit was completely cool. I'd say put the new power supply...joe


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## Charlutz

We got several 10 sec dropouts last night during House after not having them for about a month. 6.3a, using the pcm stream and tv's speakers connected by red/white cables. We had to put the closed captioning on to watch it. This has been a crappy few months for the HR10.


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## NYURDRMS

dturturro said:


> So am I the only one still having audio issues with 6.3b?


One of my units is running fine with 6.3b. The other unit I have is doing a stuttering any time that the unit is trying to start recording a show on Fox OTA. When it tries to start recording, everything starts to stutter, even if I am watching another show. I get no response from the remote then after about 2 mintutes of stuttering it resets. This only happens with it trying to record fox OTA, everything else works fine and if I change my recordings to the sat SD feed instead of the OTA HD feed, it records fine.

Anybody else having this problem?


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## Eben

NYURDRMS said:


> One of my units is running fine with 6.3b. The other unit I have is doing a stuttering any time that the unit is trying to start recording a show on Fox OTA. When it tries to start recording, everything starts to stutter, even if I am watching another show. I get no response from the remote then after about 2 mintutes of stuttering it resets. This only happens with it trying to record fox OTA, everything else works fine and if I change my recordings to the sat SD feed instead of the OTA HD feed, it records fine.
> 
> Anybody else having this problem?


Try contacting the engineering dept. of your local Fox station. I know that the D.C. Fox station made some adjustment that helped. See this AVS forum for local HDTV info.


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