# Verizon Fios 4K Channels



## zubinh (Jun 7, 2004)

Verizon recently announced that Fios customers will be getting 4K channels this year (link to article below). Just wanted to make sure that as Bolt owners, there wouldn't be anything special we would have to do in order to receive these new channels. Also, has there been any guidance from Tivo as to HDR capabilities on the Bolts? Thanks!

Verizon plans to test 4K TV for its FiOS customers


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

zubinh said:


> Verizon recently announced that Fios customers will be getting 4K channels this year (link to article below). Just wanted to make sure that as Bolt owners, there wouldn't be anything special we would have to do in order to receive these new channels. Also, has there been any guidance from Tivo as to HDR capabilities on the Bolts? Thanks!
> 
> Verizon plans to test 4K TV for its FiOS customers


Actually, as I read the article, it says that Verizon will start to "test" some channels. Normally "tests" are never done system wide, so unless you happen to be in the "test" area, I would not hold my breath.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

zubinh said:


> Verizon recently announced that Fios customers will be getting 4K channels this year (link to article below). Just wanted to make sure that as Bolt owners, there wouldn't be anything special we would have to do in order to receive these new channels. Also, has there been any guidance from Tivo as to HDR capabilities on the Bolts? Thanks!
> 
> Verizon plans to test 4K TV for its FiOS customers


FiOS is launching IPTV later this year too. WHich would replace their QAM channels. The current consensus is that the 4K channels will be available on their IPTV platform. Because they are already maxed on on their QAM channels. If they do put them on QAM, they would most likely be bit starved. Since they really don't have the space for them. And have already reduced the bitrate of many of their HD channels to get all of the HD channels to fit in their system.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

And just to add to aaronwt's post if the 4K channels are broadcast via Verizon's IPTV platform it is very unlikely they will be available on a Bolt or Bolt+.


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## zubinh (Jun 7, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> And just to add to aaronwt's post if the 4K channels are broadcast via Verizon's IPTV platform it is very unlikely they will be available on a Bolt or Bolt+.


:fearscream:

That's terrible. Part of the selling point for the Bolts was that consumers would be ready for the time when 4K broadcasts are available. And now you're telling me that ain't happening. Basically all we've got is a DVR that can do Netflix and Youtube in 4K...


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

zubinh said:


> :fearscream:
> 
> That's terrible. Part of the selling point for the Bolts was that consumers would be ready for the time when 4K broadcasts are available. And now you're telling me that ain't happening. Basically all we've got is a DVR that can do Netflix and Youtube in 4K...


Well they are likely ready for 4K QAM (digital cable) broadcasts.

But TiVos can not receive or record IPTV broadcasts unless the service provider decides to build an app for TiVo's platform, doesn't matter if the IPTV system is 4K or not.

OTA is no better off. The Bolt only has ATSC 1.0 OTA tuners, 4K via OTA is going to require ATSC 3.0 tuners, so unless TiVo provides USB or Network attached ATSC 3.0 tuners that the Bolt can use, it will not support OTA 4K either.


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## brandenwan (Nov 6, 2015)

atmuscarella said:


> Well they are likely ready for 4K QAM (digital cable) broadcasts.
> 
> But TiVos can not receive or record IPTV broadcasts unless the service provider decides to build an app for TiVo's platform, doesn't matter if the IPTV system is 4K or not.
> 
> OTA is no better off. The Bolt only has ATSC 1.0 OTA tuners, 4K via OTA is going to require ATSC 3.0 tuners, so unless TiVo provides USB or Network attached ATSC 3.0 tuners that the Bolt can use, it will not support OTA 4K either.


Au contraire mon ami, Tivos can be modified at the software level to handle a hybrid form of IPTV (Think DirecTV Now or Playstation Vue) however it would render your DVR useless and you'd have to use an nDVR. They could however "trick" us into thinking nothing has changed with your now-dead DVR by reading the availabe storage and giving you the equivalent networked DVR space. It would probably be sluggish as hell though. It would likely be free-of-charge for all users with a subscription, but ultimately that would be a stop-gap measure and a successor to the Bolt will need to include both true IPTV capability and a QAM/ATSC 3.0 tuner, that way they'll appear to be keeping up with the K̶a̶r̶d̶a̶s̶h̶i̶a̶n̶s̶ big cable operators like Comcast and Verizon. They have already done it in other places with hybrid boxes and those hideous things made by Samsung that graces the shelves in Sweden and the UK. I hid under my covers the first time I saw that..that THING. Sorry, I digest. (joke)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

They would have to work with the cable operator to provide any IPTV capability. And if TiVo doesn't have more patents to force their hand, it's probably not likely to happen. Since there are so few TiVos out there. If their customer base was ten times the size, they would have more power. But at the current levels, I guess they would have to partner with a cable system. And that would typically only be smaller cable systems here in the US. I would love for FIOS to offer something for TiVo owners, but realistically I would be shocked if they did.

Plus from what I've read as DSL reports, to switch to the FiOS IPTV, you will have to get rid of QAM capability completely. SO it's all or nothing.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> They would have to work with the cable operator to provide any IPTV capability. And if TiVo doesn't have more patents to force their hand, it's probably not likely to happen. Since there are so few TiVos out there. If their customer base was ten times the size, they would have more power. But at the current levels, I guess they would have to partner with a cable system. And that would typically only be smaller cable systems here in the US. I would love for FIOS to offer something for TiVo owners, but realistically I would be shocked if they did.
> 
> Plus from what I've read as DSL reports, to switch to the FiOS IPTV, you will have to get rid of QAM capability completely. SO it's all or nothing.


I agree, without the FCC requiring it when a traditional cable company like FIOS or Comcast switch to IPTV for delivery they are not going to support using that service on TiVo. It isn't hard to understand why, supporting TiVo would cost money and reduce revenue from hardware leasing, with no financial upside, no CEO in their right mind would voluntarily do that.

It is a little different with the OTT IPTV services like SlingTV or PlayStation Vue, their model requires the user to have their own hardware so supporting more hardware is a good thing, but as aaronwt said TiVos user base is so small that it may still not make financial sense for these companies to support using their services on TiVo.


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## zubinh (Jun 7, 2004)

I'll check DSL reports but does that mean that QAM on Fios is going away completely and Verizon will no longer support any devices with a cablecard?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

zubinh said:


> I'll check DSL reports but does that mean that QAM on Fios is going away completely and Verizon will no longer support any devices with a cablecard?


We don't know when FIOS is going to stop providing cable via QAM. Most think they will stop someday, guesses on when "someday" is are anywhere from soon to 5 or more years.

Under current law they can not drop support for cable cards on their QAM system.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

zubinh said:


> :fearscream:
> 
> That's terrible. Part of the selling point for the Bolts was that consumers would be ready for the time when 4K broadcasts are available. And now you're telling me that ain't happening. Basically all we've got is a DVR that can do Netflix and Youtube in 4K...


An age old lesson in the tech industry is to base your buying decision based on what a device can do for you now, not based on what it might do in the future.

Yes, we were told that if 4K showed up on QAM in H.265, that the Bolt should be able to support it. That's a lot of conditions and nobody ever said 4K would show up on QAM in H.265. In theory a converter box could be created or an App could be written for the Bolt, but technology tends to just ignore it's old messes and move on ...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

According to DSL Reports, the people beta testing the FiOS IP channels have access to 4K VOD content. 

No idea what it's like though. I know the current FiOS VOD quality is typically crap.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Don't most cable company DVR's have modems built into them ?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I believe so. But since FiOS doesn't use any modems, their STBs wouldn't have one.


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## ingsoc747 (Apr 5, 2017)

aaronwt said:


> I believe so. But since FiOS doesn't use any modems, their STBs wouldn't have one.


In my apartment, the fiber runs to a little box called the ONT which I believe splits the light by frequency - one is for TV, the other internet - and outputs over coax with some signal boosters. Internet is provided by means of MoCA which only is supported by Verizon's modem/gateway, unless you can get them to enable the ethernet port on the ONT. So yeah, you don't have to rent a modem from them, but you still have to rent their router, or buy one for an exorbitant price.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

ingsoc747 said:


> In my apartment, the fiber runs to a little box called the ONT which I believe splits the light by frequency - one is for TV, the other internet - and outputs over coax with some signal boosters. Internet is provided by means of MoCA which only is supported by Verizon's modem/gateway, unless you can get them to enable the ethernet port on the ONT. So yeah, you don't have to rent a modem from them, but you still have to rent their router, or buy one for an exorbitant price.


It's pretty trivial to switch the ONT from using MoCA to using the Cat5e port. New installations even default to the Cat5e port. But in an apartment, you might not have that option depending on how the wiring is. And the current Verizon STBs require MoCA LAN to run.

A MoCA router would cost you $150 from Verizon and around $100 on Amazon.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ingsoc747 said:


> In my apartment, the fiber runs to a little box called the ONT which I believe splits the light by frequency - one is for TV, the other internet - and outputs over coax with some signal boosters. Internet is provided by means of MoCA which only is supported by Verizon's modem/gateway, unless you can get them to enable the ethernet port on the ONT. So yeah, you don't have to rent a modem from them, but you still have to rent their router, or buy one for an exorbitant price.


I've been with FiOS for ten years. I've never needed to use their router. When I signed up in 2007 I specifically asked for an Ethernet connection from the ONT. So I could use my own router. Otherwise with MoCA, if their router craps out you are screwed. With Ethernet you could still use their router, but if it craps out you can quickly switch to you onw router. Minimizing your downtime.

My first year I use their router connected to the ONT and only used that with their STB I had for VOD. I hung my router off of their router and all my devices connected to it. But later I realized I didn;t use their VOD much since I could get the same content from other sources. So I turned the STB in to save the $10, and disconnected teh FiOS router completely.

Over the years FiOS has sent me multiple routers. I think I have six of them now, gathering dust in a closet. The most recent one they sent me was their newest model. No idea why they keep sending them to me, but they do. And I don't use them. And they have never charged me for them.


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## ingsoc747 (Apr 5, 2017)

aaronwt said:


> I've been with FiOS for ten years. I've never needed to use their router. When I signed up in 2007 I specifically asked for an Ethernet connection from the ONT. So I could use my own router. Otherwise with MoCA, if their router craps out you are screwed. With Ethernet you could still use their router, but if it craps out you can quickly switch to you onw router. Minimizing your downtime.
> 
> My first year I use their router connected to the ONT and only used that with their STB I had for VOD. I hung my router off of their router and all my devices connected to it. But later I realized I didn;t use their VOD much since I could get the same content from other sources. So I turned the STB in to save the $10, and disconnected teh FiOS router completely.
> 
> Over the years FiOS has sent me multiple routers. I think I have six of them now, gathering dust in a closet. The most recent one they sent me was their newest model. No idea why they keep sending them to me, but they do. And I don't use them. And they have never charged me for them.


Thanks. Maybe' I'll try to get rid of it then as I don't need the VOD. Does the app streaming still working w/o their router?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ingsoc747 said:


> Thanks. Maybe' I'll try to get rid of it then as I don't need the VOD. Does the app streaming still working w/o their router?


I haven't tried their app recently. But when I did I was not home when I used it.


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