# Game of Thrones "Fire & Blood" 6/19/11



## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Dragons, *****.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Awesome end scene. Great setup for next season all around.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't think anybody will be messing with the Khaleesi any more. It would have been cool if the theme music from Shaft was playing when she had the baby dragons crawling on her.

King Joffrey wins the "Biggest A-Hole on TV" award, 2011 edition.

This long wait is going to suck.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

I'm assuming it was covered more so in the book, but the whole, why the people that stayed did stay... Now the farmer/herders I can understand why, their whole life was destroyed, but why would any of the Dathraki(sp) stay... They must have swayed by her charisma and strong character.

ok just re-watched the ending. all that remained seemed to have been her slaves.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Yeah, my thoughts were:
Danerys: Giving new meaning to the term "Dragon Lady"
Joffrey: Needs to learn the 1st rule of "Risk" -- Kill, do not maim
Robb: Some achieve greatness, some have it thrust upon them
The Witch: Perhaps telling Dany that "Only death pays for life" wasn't the best move


Next season is going to be great. You've got Joffrey vs Tyrion in court (not as much of a mismatch as it may seem), Robb vs Tywin on the battlefield, Zombies in the north and Dragons in the south. Other than that not much is happening!


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

ducker said:


> but why would any of the Dathraki(sp) stay... They must have swayed by her charisma and strong character.


I read the books a while ago, but the way I remember it was the few who stayed were her sworn body guard (blood riders).


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Legion said:


> I read the books a while ago, but the way I remember it was the few who stayed were her sworn body guard (blood riders).


In the book they also mentioned that some that stayed were old, sick, etc. People that no other Khal would take.

Great episode. It could have been twice as long. Once again I think they did a good job portraying the book.

tk


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Joffrey isn't the sharpest sword if he doesn't think the woman he shares his bed with isn't going to want to stab him in the eyeball for murdering her father and Septa.


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Joffrey isn't the sharpest sword if he doesn't think the woman he shares his bed with isn't going to want to stab him in the eyeball for murdering her father and Septa.


No he isn't. He is a crazy mofo.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

How long does it take for a dragon to grow to be more than a flying lizard? An offeason on HBO?


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

fmowry said:


> How long does it take for a dragon to grow to be more than a flying lizard? An offeason on HBO?


If they stick to the books, about another 800 pages.

While the dragons would be a nice perk when they get older, I would be more impressed by the fact this chick just spent the night in a bonfire and has three dragons and nakedness to show for it.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't think anybody will be messing with the Khaleesi any more. It would have been cool if the theme music from Shaft was playing when she had the baby dragons crawling on her.


Very kewl! I thought she was dead meat, and now she's REALLY a dragon lady! 



cheesesteak said:


> King Joffrey wins the "Biggest A-Hole on TV" award, 2011 edition.


Yup, and I hope he gets what's coming to him.



cheesesteak said:


> This long wait is going to suck.


^This, this, this!!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

What a great 10 episodes, BRAVO HBO!! I'll likely be through all the books by the time season 2 starts, they are that good/fun to read!

HBO has really done justice to the books imo, I can't remember a show I've enjoyed more in it's first season other than perhaps the Sopranos. This one ranks up there with the best they have done.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

cheesesteak said:


> Joffrey isn't the sharpest sword if he doesn't think the woman he shares his bed with isn't going to want to stab him in the eyeball for murdering her father and Septa.


Hasn't it already started? Wasn't that scene towards the end the "afterglow" of Sansa boffing her tutor (one of many "eeeeewww" moments in that series)



whitson77 said:


> No he isn't. He is a crazy mofo.


Shows some of the downside of inbreeding.


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

So I take it the witch was responsible for Drogo's wound getting so severely infected in the first place? Can someone who read the book please shed some light if it was ever made clear? Also, was the death of the baby really as the witch described (it was born mutated and dead)? Was this the result of the witch's deliberate actions or because she went into the tent during the spell being performed?


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

Mr. Merkin said:


> So I take it the witch was responsible for Drogo's wound getting so severely infected in the first place? Can someone who read the book please shed some light if it was ever made clear? Also, was the death of the baby really as the witch described (it was born mutated and dead)? Was this the result of the witch's deliberate actions or because she went into the tent during the spell being performed?


Yes, I think Drogo's death, and the baby's were a result of the witch's spell. She had the intention of killing them all along. Much in the show was a recap of what happened, while in the book it was described as it happened, but the details were much the same from what I remember.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

tiassa said:


> Hasn't it already started? Wasn't that scene towards the end the "afterglow" of Sansa boffing her tutor (one of many "eeeeewww" moments in that series)


If you're talking about that old guy scene "The thing about kings..."? That wasn't Sansa. Looked a lot like her, though. She was a random service lady. A lot more "developed" than Sansa.

I like how he put on his frailty as he put on his cloak.

--Carlos "just a series watcher, not a reader" V.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

tiassa said:


> Hasn't it already started? Wasn't that scene towards the end the "afterglow" of Sansa boffing her tutor (one of many "eeeeewww" moments in that series)


If you are referring to the sexposition scene with the old court advisor (Maester Pycelle?), I think that was the same prostitute we've been seeing all season, Roz. She's like Forest Gump, shows up in every scene.

I think Roz works for Littlefingers. It took me a minute to figure out why Pycelle was saying what he said about Joffrey ("he'll be a great king", etc), when you knew he couldn't be serious. Then I realized Roz probably reports right back to LF, who would love to have something on Pycelle. Notice how he is actually quite fit, but assumed the hunch when it was time to appear in public. THAT'S how he's served more kings than any man alive!

Sansa would almost certainly need to remain virginal for her Grace.

ETA: or what unbeliever typed quicker than me


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Unbeliever said:


> I like how he put on his frailty as he put on his cloak.


Yeah I thought that was really neat. It makes me wonder if he IS one of those former kings that somehow arranged to have someone killed in his place and took on that new personality.

Z


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

Mr. Merkin said:


> So I take it the witch was responsible for Drogo's wound getting so severely infected in the first place? Can someone who read the book please shed some light if it was ever made clear? Also, was the death of the baby really as the witch described (it was born mutated and dead)? Was this the result of the witch's deliberate actions or because she went into the tent during the spell being performed?


As I read it, the witch properly dressed Drogo's wound, but the dressing irritated him so he removed it and used something else instead. The result was the infection that would have killed him.

The witch didn't get evil until Dany asked her to save him. She took that task on knowing what it meant for Dany's baby and that Drogo would be a vegetable, albeit living, afterward. If Drogo hadn't been hurt and/or if they'd never used the witch, the baby would have been okay. It was the blood price for saving Drogo.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Looks like Cercei really likes to keep it all in the family.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Mr. Merkin said:


> So I take it the witch was responsible for Drogo's wound getting so severely infected in the first place? Can someone who read the book please shed some light if it was ever made clear? Also, was the death of the baby really as the witch described (it was born mutated and dead)? Was this the result of the witch's deliberate actions or because she went into the tent during the spell being performed?


Check out my spoilers from last week's thread for the answer to the first question.

For the third, Jorah confirms that he was born mutilated. Notice the description of the mutilation indicated that the baby had dragon-like features.

As for the fourth, it's a little up in the air. There's the "life pays for life" thing, but there's also a comment that Jorah was responsible because he took her into the tent.

from book:


Spoiler



Ser Jorah had killed her son, Dany knew. He had done what he did for love and loyalty, yet he had carried her into a place no living man should go and fed her baby to the darkness. He knew it too; the grey face, the hollow eyes, the limp. "The shadows have touched you too, Ser Jorah," she told him. The knight made no reply. Dany turned to the godswife. "You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse."
"No," Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

astrohip said:


> If you are referring to the sexposition scene with the old court advisor (Maester Pycelle?), I think that was the same prostitute we've been seeing all season, Roz. She's like Forest Gump, shows up in every scene.
> 
> Sansa would almost certainly need to remain virginal for her Grace.


OK, I wasn't sure, but I thought it might be. But you are right, Goffrey is the sort that would hang the bloody bedsheets out the window the night after his "initial encounter" with Sansa


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

My favorite part of the entire series was that old guy! I had no idea that was all fake. Genius! That entire scene was fantastic.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

warning - video has NSFW language, but is sooo funny - one fan's reaction to the unfortunate demise of Eddard Stark...


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> warning - video has NSFW language, but is sooo funny - one fan's reaction to the unfortunate demise of Eddard Stark...


According to the comments, Sean Bean mentions this video in a recent interview.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

JETarpon said:


> According to the comments, Sean Bean mentions this video in a recent interview.


yeah, that's how i found it -


Spoiler



article is here



EDIT: Links may contain spoilers - as Jet pointed out....


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> yeah, that's how i found it -


That interview is pretty spoilerific.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Loved this last episode, particularly all the Dany stuff. The last scene with the fire and the dragons was very moving.

I still can't help thinking of the kids as younger, particularly when they do things that seem more appropriate for younger children--like when Robb was hitting the tree with his sword and said he would kill them all. Seems exactly like what a 14-year-old would do, but less so what a 20-year-old or so would do.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

JETarpon said:


> That interview is pretty spoilerific.


duely marked, thanks!

just watched the ending again, love the final scene with the dragons, they looked great!


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> duely marked, thanks!
> 
> just watched the ending again, love the final scene with the dragons, they looked great!


Yeah but...


Spoiler



There's supposed to be one sucking on each tit!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> Yeah but...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Perhaps in addition to being averse to lower frontal nudity, the actress also doesn't like nursing CGI dragons.



Greg


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Was on vacation and read the entirety of book one during it..
60% through book 2 now. I am hooked on the story line.... 

I think they did a good job with the season one. It's sad to have to wait almost a year for season 2.

Not really a spoiler, just a difference I noted about a character between the show and the book.


Spoiler



The main difference I see going into season 2 is Catalyn Stark, in the book she wants nothing but her daughters back and peace. She doesn't want war (worries about Robb) and doesn't have a blood vengeance against the Lannister's since it won't make Bran walk, or bring Ned back to life. On the show however it appears she wants it to rain lion's blood.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

JETarpon said:


> Yeah but...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



personally, i think them showing them on their own to be much better! but i did get the impression from the scene that she had just finished feeding them, of course i'm probably projecting b/c i read the book!


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

So when's the DVD release? I've read the books, but don't have HBO, so been keeping up with the threads to see opinions on the show. After all the rave reviews here I'm really looking forward to watching on DVD!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hummingbird_206 said:


> So when's the DVD release? I've read the books, but don't have HBO, so been keeping up with the threads to see opinions on the show. After all the rave reviews here I'm really looking forward to watching on DVD!


Usually shortly before the next season.

So it will probably be a while.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> So when's the DVD release? I've read the books, but don't have HBO, so been keeping up with the threads to see opinions on the show. After all the rave reviews here I'm really looking forward to watching on DVD!


Subscribe for 1 month and watch all the shows via HBOGO.com


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

NatasNJ said:


> Subscribe for 1 month and watch all the shows via HBOGO.com


Not interested in subscribing for any length of time, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll just wait for the DVD release.


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

Spoiler from the second book.



Spoiler



Theon, in the final episode, swears loyalty to Robb, till his dying breath, or something like that...

Then, in the second book, he takes over Winterfell and then says that he will spare Osha no mercy because she broke her oath to him...

Very hip. Er, hyp...o crite! 



ETA: this is a question for those who have already read the second book. Something I noticed about the final episode.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> Not interested in subscribing for any length of time, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll just wait for the DVD release.


You don't need to. A single months subscription gives you access to a months access of HBOGO which gives you every episode of every HBO series at your fingertips. NO need to stay subscribed after a month. (assuming you watch everything you wanted to in that month) Just an FYI...
Assuming your cable provider is on the HBOGO list.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> You don't need to. A single months subscription gives you access to a months access of HBOGO which gives you every episode of every HBO series at your fingertips. NO need to stay subscribed after a month. (assuming you watch everything you wanted to in that month) Just an FYI...
> Assuming your cable provider is on the HBOGO list.


Absolutely. HBO GO is awesome. I'm on family vacation right now with my in laws and my iPad is streaming Netflix and HBO GO. A potent combination!


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Something to tide us over for the long wait (other than, you know... reading the books). Here's 10 minutes of Joffrey getting slapped over and over again:


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

drumorgan said:


> Spoiler from the second book.


What is the point of putting that in this thread?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I tried to look at the heads on the spikes to see if Aryia's tutor (forget his name) was up there. Alas, I could not make out any faces other than the 2 they clearly showed (Ned and Septa).

I really liked how both kids (Bran and his younger brother) saw their father go into the crypt.

The entire scene with the old guy and Roz was priceless.

Dany AND HER HAIR are made of dragon blood


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Gosh, totally forgot another great scene: The Hound stopping Sansa from killing Joffrey. But the way he did it: not letting on that he knew what she was up to. Almost as if telling her that this wasn't going to work and to wait for a better time and place!

Or did I read the Hound wrong? I can't wait to find out. I'm willing to bet the Hound will be the new King Slayer when he kills Joffrey.


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

Anubys said:


> Or did I read the Hound wrong? I can't wait to find out. I'm willing to bet the Hound will be the new King Slayer when he kills Joffrey.





Spoiler



I will take that bet. I will even give you odds.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

well, since I don't read spoilers, your post means nothing to me. But I'll go on a limb and say you either agreed or disagreed with me!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Awesome awesome. The worst part of the episode...when they showed after the credits...The Game continues (or something like that, I don't think it was "game"), Spring 2012!! A whole year!!! Well I will be reading the book before then for sure.

The only thing I kind of didn't like, is I could imagine reading the book, and being really p.o.ed that there wasn't much closure on any of the story lines. I get that this is a series books, but I guess it was never intended to be done with each book being a self contained story. That said, the anticipation for the next book and for the next season is great, and they have me hooked. I agree, this is one of HBOs best series. Certainly the best since The Sopranos ended. This actually might be my favorite series of anything on TV since Lost.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

SurvivorFan said:


> The witch didn't get evil until Dany asked her to save him. She took that task on knowing what it meant for Dany's baby and that Drogo would be a vegetable, albeit living, afterward. If Drogo hadn't been hurt and/or if they'd never used the witch, the baby would have been okay. It was the blood price for saving Drogo.


I wonder if the witch had watched Pushing Daisies?


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

SurvivorFan said:


> What is the point of putting that in this thread?


I just noticed that from the episode (the one this thread is about) and I happened to read the corresponding part from the book about the exact same time. Just wondering if everyone else noticed this. I thought it was interesting.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

NatasNJ said:


> You don't need to. A single months subscription gives you access to a months access of HBOGO which gives you every episode of every HBO series at your fingertips. NO need to stay subscribed after a month. (assuming you watch everything you wanted to in that month) Just an FYI...
> Assuming your cable provider is on the HBOGO list.


I think his point is that a month still qualifies as a "length of time."

I think your idea is a good one though. One could also pull everything down through OnDemand (if available).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Bob Coxner said:


> I wonder if the witch had watched Pushing Daisies?


I was thinking the EXACT same thing.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Anubys said:


> Dany AND HER HAIR are made of dragon blood


 I had the same thought, and even made a comment about it to my wife. Her reply to me was:

"You're right -- that's totally unrealistic! Unlike the dragons, and the zombies, and the blood magic..."


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

drumorgan said:


> I just noticed that from the episode (the one this thread is about) and I happened to read the corresponding part from the book about the exact same time. Just wondering if everyone else noticed this. I thought it was interesting.


Everyone who read the 2nd book would know that and NO ONE who hasn't would want to know that. Posting future book spoilers in these threads is totally uncalled for IMO.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> I had the same thought, and even made a comment about it to my wife. Her reply to me was:
> 
> "You're right -- that's totally unrealistic! Unlike the dragons, and the zombies, and the blood magic..."


And let's face it, having parts of you be immune to fire but not other parts would limit the usefulness of that particular superpower...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And let's face it, having parts of you be immune to fire but not other parts would limit the usefulness of that particular superpower...


well, I really liked the dragon on her shoulder, but I hated the one in her lap with a passion!


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Flame retardant wig! I was wondering if they were going to burn off her hair, as it does happen in the book, but I guess HBO is afraid it'd turn off the audience to have her bald for a bit. Personally, I'd be all for Dany sporting an Arya pixie cut in season 2.

Speaking of Arya pixie cut, obviously in the book its much easier to picture people mistaking her for a boy than on the show, but I find it funny that with her new hair she actually looks more like a girl than before.


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

SurvivorFan said:


> Everyone who read the 2nd book would know that and NO ONE who hasn't would want to know that. Posting future book spoilers in these threads is totally uncalled for IMO.


You do know what the word "spoiler" means right? Next time you see one clearly labeled how far ahead of you it is and you don't want to know it... you'll know what NOT to click on. IMO.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

drumorgan said:


> You do know what the word "spoiler" means right? Next time you see one clearly labeled how far ahead of you it is and you don't want to know it... you'll know what NOT to click on. IMO.


I see the point, though. What's the purpose of the spoiler in this thread?

Obviously, I didn't read it. So maybe there is a purpose to it that we would gleam from reading it.

But I do wonder why these keep popping up. If you're telling people who already read the book, well, they already know it. If the audience is people who did not read the book, well, they're not going to read your spoiler!

again, not having read the spoiler, there may be a good reason for it. I just can't picture what the reason would be.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I see the point, though. What's the purpose of the spoiler in this thread?
> 
> Obviously, I didn't read it. So maybe there is a purpose to it that we would gleam from reading it.
> 
> ...


Well, since it's been awhile since I read A Clash of Kings, I wouldn't have made the exact connection he was making myself except for it being pointed out, although I would have made the connection more generally if that makes any sense without delving into the spoiler itself.

You have to keep in mind that these are 1,000 plus page books, so the details often fade from memory. I have certainly seen posters put up inappropriate spoilers that are either not sufficient as a warning to stay away or that give something away in the context of what leads up to the spoiler. This one, however, seems to me to be a textbook example of how a future spoiler should be posted in the episode threads. Just my opinion.


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

drumorgan said:


> You do know what the word "spoiler" means right? Next time you see one clearly labeled how far ahead of you it is and you don't want to know it... you'll know what NOT to click on. IMO.


I've read the books, no skin off my nose.

But you know full well there are people who will read that and wish they hadn't. Since it added nothing to the the conversation about this episode, my conclusion is you did it to be obnoxious. Good job!


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> But I do wonder why these keep popping up. If you're telling people who already read the book, well, they already know it.


By that "logic", we would have no discussion threads at all!

[anubyslogic]
If you're telling people who already saw the show, well, they already know it. No need to discuss the show.
[/anubyslogic]


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

SurvivorFan said:


> But you know full well there are people who will read that and wish they hadn't. Since it added nothing to the the conversation about this episode, my conclusion is you did it to be obnoxious. Good job!


I thought it was a good observation, and that he is not the obnoxious one.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I thought this thread was about the episode. No some future possible event that takes place in the books. We've seen that some events can alter between the books and the show.

Example: From book one, not a spoiler, just a different set of events than the show.


Spoiler



In the book, Tyrion fought in the battle against the 2,000 north men and received a wound to his elbow that bugs him for some time. Also his father planned that the wildmen would be overrun by the northern army but Tyrion's men proved better than Tywin realized, the scene showed that Tywin may have planned to kill his Imp son with battle, but afterwards when news of Jaime's capture reaches Tywin, he accepts Tyrion as his son and makes him the Hand to rule, thinking his other son Jaime lost to him.
The show depicted that he was instead accidentally knocked out by a mallet by his over eager wildmen from the Vale before the battle even begun. No mention of his father planning that Tyrion would have been overrun and left to die in battle.


So what happens in the book Clash of Kings regarding that spoiler from book 2 may change in some small measure on the show. If you want to discuss the books go to a forum that is dedicated to them.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

robojerk said:


> So what happens in the book Clash of Kings regarding that spoiler from book 2 may change in some small measure on the show. If you want to discuss the books go to a forum that is dedicated to them.


Nah, if you don't want to read posts which are discussing how the show and the books relate, don't read those posts.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

john4200 said:


> Nah, if you don't want to read posts which are discussing how the show and the books relate, don't read those posts.


The spoiler wasn't discussing that episode directly though. It was discussing a possible future plot point that indirectly stems from this episode.

I'm in the process of reading the books myself and I think it would be totally rude of me to just be dropping future plot points in threads like these that are about specific episodes.


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## nlsinger (Feb 8, 2006)

john4200 said:


> Nah, if you don't want to read posts which are discussing how the show and the books relate, don't read those posts.


How do you know which posts are which until you read them? Obviously if it is spoiler tagged I won't look at it, but there are plenty of self-important know-it-alls that insist on commenting on future events: "You haven't seen nothing yet." or stuff about the dragons. Keep your commentary about the future to yourself!

Just. Don't. Put. Book-related. Spoilers. In. Episode. Threads. Simple.

I don't want to know anything, however innocuous someone might think it is, until I get there. 
Thanks!


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

There's a thread in the Happy Hour where book discussion is welcomed.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

SurvivorFan said:


> There's a thread in the Happy Hour where book discussion is welcomed.


I guess it comes down to everything being relative. While I certainly understand your point of view, in the original poster's defense, he did specifically state not only that he was posting a spoiler, but specifically where it was from. Having read it, I also found that the way he contrasted something from the second book with something that happened in this episode was kind of interesting. Had he mentioned the thing from this episode unspoilered, I think it would have been inappropriate as it would have left non-readers to anticipate that they should reexamine a scene from this episode, thereby somewhat spoiling their viewing experience. I guess I've just seen so many people post spoilers in overly obnoxious ways that this one doesn't deserve to be singled out as, if there are going to be spoilers at all, he couldn't have done a better job of not only alerting everyone as to how far one would need to read for it to be a spoiler, but also by choosing not to even give away the general subject matter outside of the spoiler itself.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

nlsinger said:


> How do you know which posts are which until you read them?


I'd say this "Spoiler from the second book" is a good tip off.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

3D said:


> Having read it, I also found that the way he contrasted something from the second book with something that happened in this episode was kind of interesting.


Exactly. His post was appropriate, relevant, and did not break any rules since it was properly spoiler tagged.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

robojerk said:


> I'm in the process of reading the books myself and I think it would be totally rude of me to just be dropping future plot points in threads like these that are about specific episodes.


It is more rude to attack someone for making a relevant comment about something that happened in the episode and how it relates to the books, when he did not break any rules and properly spoiler tagged his comment.

No one is forcing you to read posts that you do not want to.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

as I mentioned in my post, I did not know the content of the spoiler and therefore could not comment on whether the post was appropriate or not.

It certainly seems that it was very appropriate given that it discussed a scene from this episode and how important it is to something that is happening later. The warning was perfect, and the spoiler tags were used.

Sounds to me like the perfect post and exactly what the spoiler tags are for.

I never read posts from GOT threads in my e-mail. Spoiler tags do not work there. I see that a post has been made and I come here to read it. E-mail not handling spoiler tags properly is MY problem, not the poster's.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

I think every Game of Thrones thread has had more posts griping about spoiler tags and comments than posts discussing the actual show.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I think those in favor of the spoiler should be King of the North and those against should be King of the South


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I think those in favor of the spoiler should be King of the North and those against should be King of the South


And anyone ambivalent should talk to the Hand.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Fleegle said:


> I think every Game of Thrones thread has had more posts griping about spoiler tags and comments than posts discussing the actual show.


I also think that each episode is getting less participation (non-scientific observation) because people are tired of the book talk and constant comments about what's to come. If this keeps up, we may be able to just do a "Whole Season" thread next year.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> I think every Game of Thrones thread has had more *spoiler tags and* posts griping about spoiler tags and comments than posts discussing the actual show.


fixed your post.


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks to everyone who came to my defense. I certainly am not trying to be obnoxious. Just thought an interesting and relevant observation about this episode belonged in this thread. When you finish the second book, come back here and share your thoughts.


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## nlsinger (Feb 8, 2006)

john4200 said:


> I'd say this "Spoiler from the second book" is a good tip off.


My post is not all about you, btw.


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## aforkosh (Apr 20, 2003)

robojerk said:


> I thought this thread was about the episode. No some future possible event that takes place in the books. We've seen that some events can alter between the books and the show.
> 
> Example: From book one, not a spoiler, just a different set of events than the show.
> 
> ...


Although apparently the show handled Tyrion's injury differently from the book (I haven't read it), it was pretty clear from Tyrion's reaction to his father's order that the northerners were viewed as sacrificial lambs and that by sending Tyrion with them, Tywin was effectively getting rid of him.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I thought he said as much to his concubine.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> I thought he said as much to his concubine.


He actually said as much to his father. He said something to the effect of "Surely father if you wanted to get me killed, you could have just done it" Something like that. But now, it appears Tywin has some respect for Tyrian, making him Hand of the king. That's going to be one of the more interesting aspects of next season I think. How Tyrian influences Joffrey going forward. We know that Tyrian, despite his loyalty to the Lannisters, has a bit of a soft-spot for the the Starks, especially the Stark kids. And it seemed that he got a bit of a kick out of the fact that the Starks fooled his dad and brother with the deception. So will he try and tame Joffrey and make him sue for peace?


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> He actually said as much to his father. He said something to the effect of "Surely father if you wanted to get me killed, you could have just done it" Something like that.


"Surely, there are ways to have me killed that are less detrimental to the war effort,"


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dawghows said:


> "Surely, there are ways to have me killed that are less detrimental to the war effort,"


That was it. Thanks.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> He actually said as much to his father. He said something to the effect of "Surely father if you wanted to get me killed, you could have just done it" Something like that. But now, it appears Tywin has some respect for Tyrian, making him Hand of the king. That's going to be one of the more interesting aspects of next season I think. How Tyrian influences Joffrey going forward. We know that Tyrian, despite his loyalty to the Lannisters, has a bit of a soft-spot for the the Starks, especially the Stark kids. And it seemed that he got a bit of a kick out of the fact that the Starks fooled his dad and brother with the deception. So will he try and tame Joffrey and make him sue for peace?


I'm not sure I fully understand the heirarchy and various feudal positions. I didn't think that Tywin was making Tyrian Joffrey's Hand, necessarily, but rather was just saying that Tyrian would take over Ned's role as Lord of Winterfell. Did I misunderstand?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

danterner said:


> I'm not sure I fully understand the heirarchy and various feudal positions. I didn't think that Tywin was making Tyrian Joffrey's Hand, necessarily, but rather was just saying that Tyrian would take over Ned's role as Lord of Winterfell. Did I misunderstand?


yes, you did. He told Tyrion to go rule the kingdom in his stead, acting as Joffrey's hand (remember, Joffrey named Tywin his hand). It's clear that he considers Joffrey his puppet.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> yes, you did. He told Tyrion to go rule the kingdom in his stead, acting as Joffrey's hand (remember, Joffrey named Tywin his hand). It's clear that he considers Joffrey his puppet.


That's how I understood it. I think he realized that Tyrion is smart enough to "advise" Joffrey to do things to the advantage of the Lannisters. Considering how much Tyrion hates his dad, and he's already defying him buy taking the whore with him to Kings Landing, this should be some interesting interplay. I just have the feeling that Tyrion will not exactly be Tywin's puppet.

I think Tyrion might be my favorite character in the whole story.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> That's how I understood it. I think he realized that Tyrion is smart enough to "advise" Joffrey to do things to the advantage of the Lannisters. Considering how much Tyrion hates his dad, and he's already defying him buy taking the whore with him to Kings Landing, this should be some interesting interplay. I just have the feeling that Tyrion will not exactly be Tywin's puppet.
> 
> *I think Tyrion might be my favorite character in the whole story.*


He certainly ranks up there. Er, down there? Well, you know what I mean.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Anubys said:


> yes, you did. He told Tyrion to go rule the kingdom in his stead, acting as Joffrey's hand (*remember, Joffrey named Tywin his hand*). It's clear that he considers Joffrey his puppet.


Thanks. That's the part I don't recall.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> That's how I understood it. I think he realized that Tyrion is smart enough to "advise" Joffrey to do things to the advantage of the Lannisters. Considering how much Tyrion hates his dad, and he's already defying him buy taking the whore with him to Kings Landing, this should be some interesting interplay. I just have the feeling that Tyrion will not exactly be Tywin's puppet.
> 
> I think Tyrion might be my favorite character in the whole story.


well, I see Tyrion and Jaime as totally and completely desperate to get their father's approval (I think love is beyond feasible). So they will do and say anything he wants. He has almost complete control over them.

Tyrion was willing to die in the war (by going to the front lines) rather than defy his father. That's saying something!

Now, I also think that Tyrion is a very smart and devious guy. So he will eventually break free from his father's spell. Defying him over the "whore" thing falls under the category of "what he won't know won't hurt him".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Considering how much Tyrion hates his dad, and he's already defying him buy taking the whore with him to Kings Landing, this should be some interesting interplay


Although Dad didn't say "Don't bring the whore to King's Landing," he said "Don't bring the whore to court."


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although Dad didn't say "Don't bring the whore to King's Landing," he said "Don't bring the whore to court."


YES!

I noticed that and so wondered why Tyrion was so upset about the order. To me, it meant don't bring her to the palace and have her treated as a noble person. It didn't mean to not keep her in his place and sleep with her as he wished. But when Tyrion didn't seem to make a distinction, I thought I missed something or the meaning of "court" is different in this world.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Finale hit season high, breaking 3 million viewers.

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/06/season-finale-sets-a-ratings-high/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Wow! Lucky it didn't break me!

I wonder how many people watched it, and what percentage of them it broke?


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow! Lucky it didn't break me!
> 
> I wonder how many people watched it, and what percentage of them it broke?


I wouldn't call it breaking me but I wasn't overly excited about the introduction of dragons at the end.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

goblue97 said:


> I wouldn't call it breaking me but I wasn't overly excited about the introduction of dragons at the end.


really? i thought that was one of the coolest parts of the first season. that and the opening with the white walkers. great bookends, there is so much more to come!


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> I wouldn't call it breaking me but I wasn't overly excited about the introduction of dragons at the end.


Why not?


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## magaggie (Apr 9, 2002)

goblue97 said:


> I wouldn't call it breaking me but I wasn't overly excited about the introduction of dragons at the end.


I somewhat agree with this. Not to touch on a sore spot, but I read the book, and I think it looked better in my imagination than it did on the screen. 


Spoiler



In my imagination, her hair was all burned off, she was covered in soot, and smoke and ashes, surrounded by charred, smoldering wood. And then there she was, covered in her red green and black dragons. In my head, the dragons were bigger. It was much more of a dramatic chipmunk moment for me.


Don't get me wrong, it was a GREAT scene, Demandred hasn't read the books and he was all "WOW" about it, but I think my imagination was just better  Go go George R. R. Martin's awesome writing


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

magaggie said:


> I somewhat agree with this. Not to touch on a sore spot, but I read the book, and I think it looked better in my imagination than it did on the screen.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I knew that TV magic would never meet up with how the scene looked in my imagination before hand. Since I was prepared for the scene not to meet my expectations I was able to enjoy it more actually.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> But now, it appears Tywin has some respect for Tyrian, making him Hand of the king.


Or he thinks there's a chance that Joffrey will have him killed out of hand (relative or not). I'm sure Joffrey remembers this:



jschuur said:


> Something to tide us over for the long wait (other than, you know... reading the books). Here's 10 minutes of Joffrey getting slapped over and over again:


I think there was even a discussion afterwards between Tyrian and his brother about what lessons like this would mean for Tyrian if & when Joffrey became king.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Tyrion with an O.

I think that Tywin knows Tyrion's strengths and that Cercei doesn't have them. Cercei has no control over Joffrey, and he needs to be reined in.

Also, Jaime's been taken captive and Tywin considers him all but lost, and Tyrion is the only son he has left.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

JETarpon said:


> Why not?


I don't know. I understand that this is fiction but I guess my line is somewhere between whitewalkers, direwolves, 700 foot walls of ice and baby dragons. This just puts it too far into the supernatural for me...I guess. I'll keep watching though.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

JETarpon said:


> Tyrion with an O.
> 
> I think that Tywin knows Tyrion's strengths and that Cercei doesn't have them.


Cersei with an 's'.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Cersei with an 's'.


You are correct, sir!
</McMahon>


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> I don't know. I understand that this is fiction but I guess my line is somewhere between whitewalkers, direwolves, 700 foot walls of ice and baby dragons. This just puts it too far into the supernatural for me...I guess. I'll keep watching though.


We knew that dragons had existed before. We saw their skulls, if nothing else.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> Also, Jaime's been taken captive and Tywin considers him all but lost, and Tyrion is the only son he has left.


Tywin probably thinks Jamie has done all that was needed of him (Poke the old king with his pointy sword and poke his sister plenty of times with something else to generate offspring), and is of no more use.

Especially with people like Sandor Clegane or Meryn Trant willing to blindly obey orders without having a personality of their own.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> I don't know. I understand that this is fiction but I guess my line is somewhere between whitewalkers, direwolves, 700 foot walls of ice and baby dragons. This just puts it too far into the supernatural for me...I guess. I'll keep watching though.


Yeah, I kind of thought the same thing. To me, before the dragons appeared, most of the supernatural stuff was more the stories and myths that were told by the characters. They talked about dragons being extinct for years (and it sounded like nobody alive ever saw one), so that it could be the kind of medieval story that were told back in the day with no proof of existence. Same with the whitewalkers. Direwolves? Well wolves do exist in the real world and this could have been the name given to a rather large group that was found in the woods. Not really out of reality. The rest of the series at least seems plausible from a human standpoint. Even the witches spell is something that was seriously believed back in medieval times. But now we have the appearance of REAL dragons. Oh well, I still dig the story that I would never let this bother me. Like Lost becoming a story about the battle of two men's wills in the last season rather than what it was for five previous seasons, I can live with this change.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> They talked about dragons being extinct for years (and it sounded like nobody alive ever saw one), so that it could be the kind of medieval story that were told back in the day with no proof of existence.


You must have missed the scene in the castle where Arya was playing in the corridor filled with huge dragon skulls, one of which she hid in to eavesdrop on a conversation...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You must have missed the scene in the castle where Arya was playing in the corridor filled with huge dragon skulls, one of which she hid in to eavesdrop on a conversation...


Also, the eggs...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> Also, the eggs...


Although those COULD have just been pretty rocks.

"Hey, lady, wanna buy some ro...that is, DRAGON EGGS? Special price, just for YOU!!"

But that would have been a cheat. Let's face it, the remnants of magic have been lurking all over the edges of the show since literally the first scene. It would have been a cheat to have it all just be explained away. Clearly, magic was intended to play a role in this series all along.


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

Steveknj said:


> Yeah, I kind of thought the same thing. To me, before the dragons appeared, most of the supernatural stuff was more the stories and myths that were told by the characters.


What about the zombie that tried to kill Mormont & Jon?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

SurvivorFan said:


> What about the zombie that tried to kill Mormont & Jon?


Or the supernatural creatures in the first scene of the first episode?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

SurvivorFan said:


> What about the zombie that tried to kill Mormont & Jon?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or the supernatural creatures in the first scene of the first episode?


yes, but those were clearly considered legend as they had not been seen in thousands of years (until then). Time had erased any proof of their existence and were as Vampires are to us.

The dragons, on the other hand, had their skulls in the palace at King's Landing as early as 15 years before; when the mad king was killed.

But we have seen plenty of hints about magic. Heck, Ned appearing in 2 dreams on the same night going into the crypt, on the same night he died.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> yes, but those were clearly considered legend as they had not been seen in thousands of years (until then). Time had erased any proof of their existence and were as Vampires are to us.


But they WERE seen before the dragons hatched, which contradicts Steveknj's notion that there was no supernatural stuff in the show until then.

There was plenty of supernatural stuff. It's just that Martin (followed by the show's writers) was clever in easing it into the story gradually and subtly. And Steveknj apparently just didn't pay attention to it.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But they WERE seen before the dragons hatched, which contradicts Steveknj's notion that there was no supernatural stuff in the show until then.
> 
> There was plenty of supernatural stuff. It's just that Martin (followed by the show's writers) was clever in easing it into the story gradually and subtly. And Steveknj apparently just didn't pay attention to it.


yes. absolutely. I just reread my post and it is confusing as hell 

I was trying to totally agree with you but did a pi$$ poor job of it!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> yes. absolutely. I just reread my post and it is confusing as hell
> 
> I was trying to totally agree with you but did a pi$$ poor job of it!


How odd, since you're usually such a, well, you know.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> The rest of the series at least seems plausible from a human standpoint.


I suppose one could work out some kind of orbital mechanics to account for the seasons being erratic to the point that summers and winters can last decades....


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

personally i wouldn't have been so interested in the show had the supernatural elements not been there. this place is not Earth or our history, and i like that! so many directions it can go, and the opening scene set the stage - the story is taking a while to unfold calendar wise, but in just 10 short hours there is already so much to love and want to see more of I can't wait (UGH! almost an entire year!!).

good thing i have the books to keep me company, until i read them all and have to even wait on THOSE!


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

pjenkins said:


> personally i wouldn't have been so interested in the show had the supernatural elements not been there. this place is not Earth or our history, and i like that! so many directions it can go, and the opening scene set the stage - the story is taking a while to unfold calendar wise, but in just 10 short hours there is already so much to love and want to see more of I can't wait (UGH! almost an entire year!!).
> 
> good thing i have the books to keep me company, until i read them all and have to even wait on THOSE!


In contrast, so far, I've had little interest in the supernatural. I've been hooked by the political/military interactions, largely ignoring the supernatural.

However, this place certainly isn't Earth, and the supernatural, if done well, won't be a problem, even if it's more visible next season, as I suspect it will be.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Martin has said that he wanted to introduce supernatural elements slowly to readers, like a frog in water that slowly gets hotter so by the time they're there readers are already invested.

The show even downplays some of the super natural elements from the books. Direwolves and dreams jump out immediately.

Normally I'm adverse to magic/divine intervention in books because it feels like Deus Ex Machina. I think the books do a good jump of keeping them grounded in "reality." There's only a couple of supernatural elements I don't like about the books.

I've always been far more intriguied by the political drama than the other stuff. I used to roll my eyes when I saw Jon and Dany chapters, it took me a very long time to warm up to either of them, not because they weren't interesting characters, but because the location was boring to me. (I remember being very excited when Jon ran from the wall cause I held some small hope he'd actually be gone from it.)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

allan said:


> In contrast, so far, I've had little interest in the supernatural. I've been hooked by the political/military interactions, largely ignoring the supernatural.
> 
> However, this place certainly isn't Earth, and the supernatural, if done well, won't be a problem, even if it's more visible next season, as I suspect it will be.


That's me. Of course you are all correct, but I am so caught up i the characters that the supernatural stuff just seemed so insignificant to me until the dragons appeared. Yes the long summers and winters are not normal on this earth, but when you consider that in the North, there IS snow and ice, and in the south, it's warmer....could this just be the foretelling of an ice age? It's an earthly explanation. In medieval times, there were certainly those who believed in dragons and witches and magic spells and zombies and whatever else. And while we've seen dragon skulls, I suppose it could be possible that they are really dinosaur bones of some sort. The bones were in the palace 15 years ago, but don't we move dinosaur bones around today?

I'm obviously totally wrong about this, but a lot of the so called "supernatural" could be explained in earth terms based on what was known and thought in medieaval times....that is of course, until the dragons appeared around Dany's head.


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

The dragons aren't supernatural. They are CGI. It's actually Sci-Fi, not Fantasy.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Why was Jamie out there all by himself? It would be easy for someone to sneak in and untie him. He's your prime bargaining chip, people.....

I love the supernatural part--after the first 5 minutes, I was disappointed that nothing but palace politics happened for so long. It was really good, but I was waiting for the Zombies. The dragons I didn't see coming, but they should liven things up. I've got the books on order but they're coming by way of Outer Mongolia, I think. Next season I'll be one of those smug book readers who knows what's coming. I hope that doesn't spoil it.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> Why was Jamie out there all by himself? It would be easy for someone to sneak in and untie him. He's your prime bargaining chip, people.....


I think it has more to do with budget concerns, lots of things which should have huge crowds (the hand's tourney for instance) look very sparse. Also, book difference


Spoiler



they fast tracked that scene from the second book and he would have been in a dungeon.





> I hope that doesn't spoil it.


I don't think it would. I actually think the two are very good compendiums for each other. You'll get a ton of background info and internal thought processes to enjoy and broaden what you already know and going forward next season you'll just be able to see what you imagined in your head brought to life. I'm happy I've read the books before, and most importantly, I can't wait until July for Dance with Dragons.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I was enjoying the season fine. It was obviously a quality show, and it was interesting enough. I'd let an episode or two pile up.

Then something happened about half way through Ep 7 and it just exploded into a really fantastic show.

it's not just fiction, but fantasy too. i'm not sure why anyone wouldn't be expecting dragons n ****.

Personally, I really appreciate the subtlety they pulled it off with. I enjoy fantasy, but too often it's done poorly. The scene with the witch in the tent doing the blood ritual is a good example. They didn't show you anything, and it was really good.

The supernatural is a normal part of the world they live in, and that's the way it comes across.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MonsterJoe said:


> The supernatural is a normal part of the world they live in, and that's the way it comes across.


More to the point, it WAS a normal part of the world, and now it seems to be making a comeback.

I can't remember if they said this in the show, so:


Spoiler



In the hall of dragons at King's Landing, the skulls are arranged chronologically. The oldest skulls are huge, like the one Arya hid in. The newest ones are much smaller, stunted and malformed. The last dragon died a century ago. Everybody knows dragons used to exist, but the creatures north of the Wall are thought by many to be myths.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

I predict an Emmy for Peter Dinklage, (Tyrion), and for costume design. I was seriously impressed with the costuming throughout this entire run.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

stellie93 said:


> Why was Jamie out there all by himself? It would be easy for someone to sneak in and untie him. He's your prime bargaining chip, people.....


Remember she dismissed the guards so I'm guessing that he was in a relatively secure location, probably near (but segregated from) their other POW's


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I can't remember if they said this in the show


You're safe, it was mentioned during Viserys's sexposition with Doreah in the tub.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Game of Muppets
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/24/game-of-thrones-of-muppets_n_883690.html#s297429


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

robojerk said:


> Game of Muppets
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/24/game-of-thrones-of-muppets_n_883690.html#s297429


Oh my gosh!! Those are so awesome!
Heh! Rizzo...
All very well chosen.
Love it!!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

lmao, those are awesome


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Direwolves are real and went extinct 10,000 years ago (though not as big as described in the book.)

Also, it appeared from the scene that Jaime was tied up in some sort of area in the middle of their camp, not outside of it. It looked like there were walls all around them.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I cannot believe I spent the entire day yesterday watching this show. Well I'm done and now craving more. I'm STILL pissed about Ned. I really didn't see that coming. We've already lost a few people that surprised me but Ned and Khal both were two I thought had a much larger story to tell in this series. Guess not. 

Gah, my thoughts are all a jumble right now so I'll try to keep them organized between comments and questions. 

So Yoren (I think is his name) is taking Arya to Winterfell or to the wall? I wasn't sure I got his intention. I know he's recruiting for the wall but they pass Winterfell on the way right? I kinda hope he takes her to the wall and she can reunite with John Snow. I really liked their bond.

I guess this means that Winterfell is breaking free of Kings Landing and will be its own entity hence everyone declaring Robb their new king of the north?

And Jorah's face at the end when he walked to the fire, I assume expecting to see burned bodies or ashes. Dany and her dragons will be interesting next season! She doesn't have much of a following at this point but I suspect that will quickly change. What a 360 character change from the beginning of the season for this one. 

I can't help but love Baelish. He did tell Ned not to trust him. And he did tell him, whoever had the prince had the power. Like he was going to side with anyone else. 

The Hound knew exactly what was on Sansa's mind when she started walking toward Jeofrey. I wish he'd have let her push that little ass off. I'm getting all mad again just thinking about that scene. Someone please spoil me and tell me at some point he gets his.

So many more thoughts but I'll end with this. My favorite character is still Tyrion. I know he's a Lannister and the enemy but I really do hope the truth comes to light to the Stark family that he had nothing to do with that entire mess and they realize he's the only one of that entire bunch worth a crap. Oh and Tywin making him the hand to the king might turn out to be his biggest mistake. Here's to more slapping in future episodes!!


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Drogo, not khal. Khal is his title. 

Other that that I won't say anything so as not to spoil.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Well hell. I thought I had the names all down. I didn't even realize that was a title like Dany is called Khaleesi. Got it.


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## Kylep (Feb 14, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> So Yoren (I think is his name) is taking Arya to Winterfell or to the wall? I wasn't sure I got his intention. I know he's recruiting for the wall but they pass Winterfell on the way right? I kinda hope he takes her to the wall and she can reunite with John Snow. I really liked their bond.


I don't think they explain the plan exactly, but I think his intent is mostly to get her out of the city. I don't think he intends to actually take her to the wall.



photoshopgrl said:


> I guess this means that Winterfell is breaking free of Kings Landing and will be its own entity hence everyone declaring Robb their new king of the north?
> !


Yep



photoshopgrl said:


> I can't help but love Baelish. He did tell Ned not to trust him. And he did tell him, whoever had the prince had the power. Like he was going to side with anyone else.
> !


I think you'll get over that. 



photoshopgrl said:


> The Hound knew exactly what was on Sansa's mind when she started walking toward Jeofrey. I wish he'd have let her push that little ass off. I'm getting all mad again just thinking about that scene. Someone please spoil me and tell me at some point he gets his.
> !





Spoiler



Yes, he gets his... sorta... but like most characters he ends up being more gray then black.





photoshopgrl said:


> So many more thoughts but I'll end with this. My favorite character is still Tyrion. I know he's a Lannister and the enemy but I really do hope the truth comes to light to the Stark family that he had nothing to do with that entire mess and they realize he's the only one of that entire bunch worth a crap. Oh and Tywin making him the hand to the king might turn out to be his biggest mistake. Here's to more slapping in future episodes!!
> !


The hardest part of this series is to stop thinking in black and white. Everyone is a good guy from their own perspective.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

When I read the first book, I realized yep, this is not conventional white hat vs black hat fantasy. Somewhat like real life or Japanese anime in the grey areas.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> So Yoren (I think is his name) is taking Arya to Winterfell or to the wall? I wasn't sure I got his intention. I know he's recruiting for the wall but they pass Winterfell on the way right? I kinda hope he takes her to the wall and she can reunite with John Snow. I really liked their bond.


Winterfell has always been friendly to the nights watch, and Ned's brother is a high ranking member of the watch. I think Yoren is planning on taking her home.



photoshopgrl said:


> I can't help but love Baelish. He did tell Ned not to trust him. And he did tell him, whoever had the prince had the power. Like he was going to side with anyone else.


 



photoshopgrl said:


> My favorite character is still Tyrion. I know he's a Lannister and the enemy but I really do hope the truth comes to light to the Stark family that he had nothing to do with that entire mess and they realize he's the only one of that entire bunch worth a crap. Oh and Tywin making him the hand to the king might turn out to be his biggest mistake. Here's to more slapping in future episodes!!


Tyrion is easily my favorite character too. IMHO his character just gets better in the next book. I hope the TV show does good by his character in the next season, they at least got an actor who can do a good job of it.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Fleegle said:


> *I predict an Emmy for Peter Dinklage*, (Tyrion), and for costume design. I was seriously impressed with the costuming throughout this entire run.


Called it


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

What an awesome ending to a great season. I'm thoroughly amazed at how almost every episode had a GREAT ending to it. It was almost like the story was written with the intention to be made into a TV series (which I know is actually the opposite of how it was written).

On another note, man this show is harsh to the characters. It took me so long to learn the handful of characters whose named I did memorize. And now I realize that about half of the characters whose names I did commit to memory are now dead. Well, at least I didn't bother trying to remember the names of Dany's kid or the witch.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

LordKronos said:


> On another note, man this show is harsh to the characters. It took me so long to learn the handful of characters whose named I did memorize. And now I realize that about half of the characters whose names I did commit to memory are now dead. Well, at least I didn't bother trying to remember the names of Dany's kid or the witch.


I must be one of the few who didn't have any trouble. I pulled up the character bios from their site and referred to it when they were on screen for the first few eps so maybe that helped.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

DVD comes out Tue..

Now a tough decision to make Should I get the standard box, the Stark box, or the Targaryn box??? Damn Best Buy exclusivity!

 OR  OR


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh hell. I have mine no preorder through Amazon and they only have the standard. Now I want the Targaryen cover!


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