# Goodbye Tivo, it's been nice (sometimes)



## imagexpo (Apr 16, 2015)

I am no longer a cable tv subscriber as of yesterday. Canceled my Tivo service this morning after being an early adopter (Series 1).

Although happy with Spectrum as a whole, the ludicrious FEEs of $60 a month on top of the service was just too much. And the horrible guide experience with Tivo was the final straw. 

I have Ooma, an antenna, HDHomerun, Nividia Shield, Channels DVR, and Sling Blue and Discovery+ streams now.
Previously my total onthly bill including Tivo was $237.
My new TOTAL including internet is $104 monthly!!!!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You WASTED a lot of money if you were paying MONTHLY for Tivo. Should have paid lifetime long ago.

I stream lots of stuff (without commercials), but still record tons of stuff on Tivo, including as "backup".. Streaming is WAY WORSE than tivo in some areas (FF/rewind, no simple skip back).. can't play faster than realtime.. shows EXPIRE..


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

>>> Streaming is WAY WORSE than tivo

+1 :thumbsup:


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

imagexpo said:


> .......
> Although happy with Spectrum as a whole .............


Really? What about their incessant huge automatic cable TV rate increases, and the hassle of negotiating with agents worse than used car salesmen to knock them down? I cut cable TV 14 months ago and Spectrum probably would still have me as a customer if not for their sleazy customer interface. Their lack of support for Tuning Adapters was another major pain.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Streaming IS worse as far as functionality and access. But the cost of cable has gotten ridiculous. So I’ve been off TiVo for a few months now and I can’t say I’m missing it. But it’s not TiVo’s fault, it’s the providers with their packages and additional fees that ruined it for me.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

A couple of years ago, I thought streaming was going to be THE way to go. But after a year of cheap streaming packages, the cost is almost as high as cable now. I'm kinda old school, but VOD has taken over for most of my DVR needs. Spectrum does have a poor cloud DVR, and I will probably go that route when (not if) my Bolt dies.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Not that I know anything about streaming, my first experience with Sling, the Monday night final college football game.
I started watching it this week, observations: the skip back or forward is very slow and makes it difficult to skip commercials,
for no reason what-so-ever (twice) it just decided to throw in a commercial right in the middle of a play and then totally lost track
of where I was in the game, it would pause when it wanted (assume bandwidth issue and I accept the blame for my slow connection),
I watched the 1st quarter one day, 2nd quarter the next, when it decided to lose its place in the 3rd quarter I deleted the recording 
and cancelled Sling. (not really that big a deal I was using sling for that game only) But, had the sling app been much more responsive
and usable I might have kept it around for some sports.

Note I was running Sling on my Firestick, Amazon prime and Netflix on my Firestick do not suffer from problems indicated above.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

And just several months ago, I had this massive debate here with someone who insisted that streaming was a far better experience than a local DVR. I'm glad you all feel the same. It's too bad we don't have better local DVR solutions ready for us.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Sling is pretty clunky in use. It is a cheap way to get certain cable channels tho. YTTV is the OTT cable service to beat. For reasons discussed before. 

YTTV is overall better than TiVo/cable even. I definitely would tell everyone to get it over cable/TiVo these days.


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## imagexpo (Apr 16, 2015)

Streaming is a pain and if cable wasn't so outrageous (like I stated $60 A MONTH just for fees: franchise, local, state, Federal, etc) I would have stayed with it.

But after Tivo constantly recording shows I didn't want and NOT recording shows I did want, I spent more time managing Tivo than it was worth.

I will say that Discovery+ is the BEST deal in streaming though.
For $7 a month you get most of all Discovery channels (Discovery, HGTV, Food, ID, plus History and others with NO commercials.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Anotherpyr said:


> Streaming IS worse as far as functionality and access. But the cost of cable has gotten ridiculous. So I've been off TiVo for a few months now and I can't say I'm missing it. But it's not TiVo's fault, it's the providers with their packages and additional fees that ruined it for me.


Totally depends on area and provider, I get all non-premium channels + 400mb HSI for $130/mo. (tax+BS fees included) here on Comcast. Been getting that kind of double play deal for over 15 years now. And a way better experience with Tivo.

One of the keys for me was to never rent any of their crap and always get lifetime Tivos. When the Minis came along it made whole home simple.
I agree that the cost sucks for many and cable's days on Tivo are numbered, but right now it's a no-brainer to keep my setup.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

trip1eX said:


> YTTV is overall better than TiVo/cable even. I definitely would tell everyone to get it over cable/TiVo these days.


YMMV.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

Anotherpyr said:


> Streaming IS worse as far as functionality and access. But the cost of cable has gotten ridiculous. So I've been off TiVo for a few months now and I can't say I'm missing it. But it's not TiVo's fault, it's the providers with their packages and additional fees that ruined it for me.


 I was definitely going to go the streaming route and OTA with my Bolt but just got an offer from Fios to renew for two years. They had a package for non-sports fans.... gigabyte internet, phone, and cable with all the popular channels minus sports for $109.00 per month including taxes and fees and card rental.. and no data caps. Sounded good so I just signed up. I probably could have saved a few pennies with streaming but I really like the way Tivo works with Fios and the convenience of all of the features.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

MrDell said:


> I really like the way Tivo works with Fios


In at least some FIOS areas, the combination of a modified Tivo model HD and FIOS is just about a _perfect_ cable DVR situation.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

Wil said:


> In at least some FIOS areas, the combination of a modified Tivo model HD and FIOS is just about a _perfect_ cable DVR situation.


 It really is.... after talking to the agent within 3 minutes they modified my channel lineup without any issues.... all I had to do was remove the channels I no longer received in the TiVo channel list settings and I was good to go! All adjustments were made on their end and the information was relayed to the cable card in my TiVo.


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## tivaulo (Apr 25, 2008)

OK, so what do you guys suggest? My UPS just hit the crapper today and took my 6-channel Roamio with it. Tried a new HD but it's still stuck on a boot loop. I've been with Tivo since Series 2 and I really like the UI. My cable provider is Spectrum and the last time I tried their DVR it was horrible, way too clumsy. 

So similar to the OP, my options are:

1) Buy and Edge and keep life simple.
2) Tell my wife "sorry honey, no TV for you!"
3) Try to figure out if there's a better way to record 6 channels than Tivo.

Mind you, I only use Tivo to record, because I can't stand how slow the apps are on Tivo. We have a Roku (and a Tivo mini) in the bedroom for the other apps, and an Android TV in the living room. 

I would love to stop paying for cable TV, but then I would be paying for marriage counseling which would be even more expensive, so I'm not cutting the cable TV package. Just possibly kicking Tivo to the curb because the company seems dead already, and TE4 scares me 

I have ethernet cables all over the house, a PC right by the TV, and a firestick I don't use.

I don't have a problem setting new thing up but I'm pretty clueless about what my choices are these days. 
So is there anything out there that can replace the DVR capabilities of a 6 channel Tivo with a half decent UI?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

YTTV records unlimited channels. Skip fwd/back is instant and precise. UI is subjective, but I have no problem with it. Excellent TiVo/cable replacement. I switched from TiVo to streaming/ota 4 years ago and haven’t looked back.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

mdavej said:


> I switched from TiVo to streaming/ota 4 years ago and haven't looked back.


Serious question: Why do you linger on the TiVoCommunity forums four years after moving on from TiVo products?
Second serious question: Since you have OTA, what about YTTV attracts you? Sports? News? 
Third serious question: What do you use for highspeed internet? What limitations are there? What's it cost?

I see a lot of posts from people who have moved on. While I have relied primarily on OTA for more than a decade, I often sample alternatives including a brief stint with DirecTV and a briefer stint with AT&T TV. I get my fill of Tiny Homes in about an hour. If I wanted the cable filler channels, Philo seems to be a good, inexpensive option. Pluto has cable news for free.

After four years, what makes YTTV an excellent TiVo/Cable replacement for you?


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

tivaulo said:


> So is there anything out there that can replace the DVR capabilities of a 6 channel Tivo with a half decent UI?


Nothing would be as easy as just jacking in a new TiVo, and I'd look for another Roamio. Read up on the Edge before you buy one. The Bolt was terrible. I believe the Roamio Pro was the last great TiVo ever produced, and highly recommend buying one with upgraded storage and a warranty from WeaKnees.

I often recommend _Channels DVR_ as a TiVo replacement, but there's no Roku client app so it would only work on your Android TV (or Fire TV, or Apple TV, or iOS). Also Spectrum encrypts everything, so the standard _HD HomeRun _CableCARD box _Channels DVR_ requires would not work for you, and you'd need to use their beta "TV Everywhere" feature to access Spectrum over the web in stereo not 5.1 sound. So not my recommendation for you, but if you're curious see: getchannels.com

As has been mentioned there's YouTube TV, Hulu Live TV, Fubo, etc., most of which also work with _Channels DVR_ and offer their own "cloud DVR" options too. See thestreamable.com


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> YTTV records unlimited channels. Skip fwd/back is instant and precise. UI is subjective, but I have no problem with it. Excellent TiVo/cable replacement. I switched from TiVo to streaming/ota 4 years ago and haven't looked back.


Me too, only my cable cut was just 14 months ago. Also, a few clarifications about YTTV:
1. Its free cloud DVR records unlimited shows (not channels).
2. ffwd/rewind is very fast but not sure about "precise". It goes in 15-second jumps.

General statements that streaming is better/worse than traditional cable TV just don't make sense, since so much depends on factors that vary from case to case. One thing is true as a general statement however: Streaming no longer has a cost advantage over cable TV when it comes to getting the same content. The content providers are king and they will get their money regardless of how it's delivered. But another valid general statement is that streaming has it all over Cable TV for the customer interface, pricing transparency, and ease of subscribing/unsubscribing.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

tivaulo said:


> OK, so what do you guys suggest? My UPS just hit the crapper today and took my 6-channel Roamio with it. Tried a new HD but it's still stuck on a boot loop. I've been with Tivo since Series 2 and I really like the UI. My cable provider is Spectrum and the last time I tried their DVR it was horrible, way too clumsy.
> 
> So similar to the OP, my options are:
> 
> ...


4) Get a used lifetime Roamio Plus from ebay for $300 or less, and use TE3 UI.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tivaulo said:


> 1) Buy and Edge and keep life simple.
> 2) Tell my wife "sorry honey, no TV for you!"
> 3) Try to figure out if there's a better way to record 6 channels than Tivo.


You NEED six channels/tuners? Since you are talking about recording why not another Roamio? Around $200 used with lifetime. The Plus/Pro does have 6 tuners but is cable only. The "basic" has 4 tuners (enough for most) and can be used for cable OR OTA (one at a time, not both at same time). Since lifetime no monthly fees. If a basic, if you really NEED 6 tuners could just buy another, have two Roamios (you'd end up with 8 channels.) Not sure if your cable company charges for a second cable card, if so should be not much. Edge, well pretty expensive for the cable model, the device itself but even more so the lifetime service or monthly/yearly fees. Even if you wait for a sale. And it's TE4/Hydra only, may not be the interface you like.

What drive did you try in your Roamio, model number? I assume you are using TE3 since you mention you like the UI and are a long time Tivo user? If not, ie you "upgraded" to TE4, then the drive model for replacement even more critical. Either OS CMR is the way to go though, NOT SMR. Post the model, and/or try a drive you KNOW is CMR, the fact that it's even getting into a boot loop kinda makes me think the Tivo itself might be ok.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wizwor said:


> Serious question: Why do you linger on the TiVoCommunity forums four years after moving on from TiVo products?


The vast majority of discussions on TCF have nothing to do with Tivo. So I still enjoy reading those posts. But I hear loud and clear, "you're no longer in the club, so leave already, and don't let the door hit you on the way out". Doesn't bother me. I still get more enjoyment out of TCF than not. Maybe one day soon I'll give up, but not quite yet.


> Second serious question: Since you have OTA, what about YTTV attracts you? Sports? News?


None of the above. But it's complicated. Personally, I only watch Motor Trend and cooking shows on YTTV. I have no interest in sports. However, my parents, whom I share the service with, have it for the news and PBS (they can't get it OTA). So I'm able to provide 2 households with cable TV content for less the cost of a single cable subscription. Unfortunately, YTTV is the only streaming service that has PBS. Otherwise I could save a lot of money switching to something like Philo or even just Discovery+.


> Third serious question: What do you use for highspeed internet? What limitations are there? What's it cost?


I use T-mobile. At $50/month it's the cheapest, slowest internet available in my market. If I could go cheaper and slower, I would in a heartbeat. The limitations are significant (no bridge mode, inconsistent speeds), but they have no impact on my streaming performance. I really only need about 12 Mbps for that.


> After four years, what makes YTTV an excellent TiVo/Cable replacement for you?


I've been through several streaming services in the past 4 years, starting with Playstation Vue. I absolutely loved it. In many ways it was better than YTTV is today. It had a great lineup and was a solid DVR. Alas, the lineup was gutted, price skyrocketed, and the service ultimately shuttered. Then came AT&T. Abysmal DVR but, at $35, a fantastic lineup and price. I kept that for a few years. But that same lineup is over $100 today, so that pushed me to YTTV, which had been at the bottom of my list until that moment.

So why is it so good for me, in spite of its shortcomings (high price, terrible guide, no 5.1 sound)? Unlimited DVR that I don't have to manage at all, PBS (it's the only streaming service that has it), runs on any platform, superb trick play (no other service comes close). Best of all, no cable card, tuning adapter or massive cable bill full of bogus fees. The day I told Charter to stuff it was a very happy day.

What was wrong with Tivo? Not very much. Really just its requirement to use cable TV and its terrible streaming capabilities. It's the best DVR by far. I could have kept using it for OTA. But then I have to switch back and forth to different sources more and more to stream. Seemed silly when I had streaming devices that could do everything, even though cloud DVR has limitations.

So here we are. Another reason I hung around here so long was my hope that Tivo Stream 4K would solve Tivo's lack of streaming apps and integrate with the Tivo's I already paid for. Alas, it did not pan out. The Stream ended up having zero integration with Tivo, making it nothing more than a pale imitation of the dozens of other identical streaming devices that have been around for at least a decade.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Me too, only my cable cut was just 14 months ago. Also, a few clarifications about YTTV:
> 1. Its free cloud DVR records unlimited shows (not channels).
> 2. ffwd/rewind is very fast but not sure about "precise". It goes in 15-second jumps.
> 
> General statements that streaming is better/worse than traditional cable TV just don't make sense, since so much depends on factors that vary from case to case. One thing is true as a general statement however: Streaming no longer has a cost advantage over cable TV when it comes to getting the same content. The content providers are king and they will get their money regardless of how it's delivered. But another valid general statement is that streaming has it all over Cable TV for the customer interface, pricing transparency, and ease of subscribing/unsubscribing.


I agree with your other points, but not your clarifications.

1. If I were to set up 100 recordings and they all happened hit simultaneously on 100 different channels, YTTV would still record them all. So it effectively does have unlimited tuners even though the concept of a tuner doesn't really apply to a streaming service.

2. It hits those jumps very precisely and shows you a thumbnail of exactly where it's going to stop. But yes, I'll concede you can't get any closer than those increments. I can live with that.

In my ideal world, cable would be affordable, and Tivo would run every streaming app, and I'd be happier than I am now with YTTV. But that's not the reality, and YTTV comes closest to solving all those issues for me at the moment. I'd love for YTTV to be a lot cheaper, have a no-sports option, have 5.1 sound, a better guide and tighter voice control integration. Maybe someday. But by that time I'll have lost interest and switched entirely to OTA.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

mdavej said:


> But I hear loud and clear, "you're no longer in the club, so leave already, and don't let the door hit you on the way out".


Not from me. I came here when I was seriously looking at TiVos (for the third time) and hang around because I have five Roamio/OTAs, a couple Minis, and a Stream. I like to keep up. Even now, my time here is on the wane.



mdavej said:


> None of the above. But it's complicated. Personally, I only watch Motor Trend and cooking shows on YTTV. I have no interest in sports. However, my parents, whom I share the service with, have it for the news and PBS (they can't get it OTA). So I'm able to provide 2 households with cable TV content for less the cost of a single cable subscription. Unfortunately, YTTV is the only streaming service that has PBS. Otherwise I could save a lot of money switching to something like Philo or even just Discovery+.
> 
> I've been through several streaming services in the past 4 years, starting with Playstation Vue. I absolutely loved it. In many ways it was better than YTTV is today. It had a great lineup and was a solid DVR. Alas, the lineup was gutted, price skyrocketed, and the service ultimately shuttered. Then came AT&T. Abysmal DVR but, at $35, a fantastic lineup and price. I kept that for a few years. But that same lineup is over $100 today, so that pushed me to YTTV, which had been at the bottom of my list until that moment.


I liked Vue. Integrated right into the Recast EPG. I understand YTTV does as well.



mdavej said:


> I use T-mobile. At $50/month it's the cheapest, slowest internet available in my market. If I could go cheaper and slower, I would in a heartbeat. The limitations are significant (no bridge mode, inconsistent speeds), but they have no impact on my streaming performance. I really only need about 12 Mbps for that.


Good to know. Second recommendation in a week.



mdavej said:


> So why is it so good for me, in spite of its shortcomings (high price, terrible guide, no 5.1 sound)? Unlimited DVR that I don't have to manage at all, PBS (it's the only streaming service that has it), runs on any platform, superb trick play (no other service comes close). Best of all, no cable card, tuning adapter or massive cable bill full of bogus fees. *The day I told Charter to stuff it was a very happy day.*


I used to have a blog called The Beer's On Comcast that celebrated my divorce from Comcast.



mdavej said:


> What was wrong with Tivo? Not very much. Really just its requirement to use cable TV and its terrible streaming capabilities. It's the best DVR by far. I could have kept using it for OTA. But then I have to switch back and forth to different sources more and more to stream. Seemed silly when I had streaming devices that could do everything, even though cloud DVR has limitations.


There's plenty wrong with TiVo. The fact that we are going to end up with doorstops when TiVo pulls the plug on their service is on my mind these days. It's not like Rovi is above redefining the term Lifetime, right? It's no longer the single box/remote solution. 


mdavej said:


> So here we are. Another reason I hung around here so long was my hope that Tivo Stream 4K would solve Tivo's lack of streaming apps and integrate with the Tivo's I already paid for. Alas, it did not pan out. The Stream ended up having zero integration with Tivo, making it nothing more than a pale imitation of the dozens of other identical streaming devices that have been around for at least a decade.


It's actually pretty good hardware, but I agree with the rest.

Thanks for taking the time to talk about your adventure.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

wizwor said:


> I liked Vue. Integrated right into the Recast EPG. I understand YTTV does as well.


Yeah, the guide integration with Recast is brilliant. Right now I've got OTA, YTTV, Pluto and Sling (the free channels) all in one guide.


> Good to know. Second recommendation in a week.


My T-mobile got off to a rocky start. When I was first setting it up, I was moving it around the house to find the best signal. I didn't realize it locked on to the worst signal until I rebooted. After that, I was able to find a good place, and it's been solid ever since. Actually more reliable than Spectrum. My speeds are usually around 100 down, 30 up. Occasionally it drops to 50, but not very often. Definitely worth the $30/month savings over Spectrum. That's enough to pay for almost half my YTTV bill.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

well since your Tivo broke, I would try YTTV. I think they have a 14 day free trial currently at least as of a week ago or so. Just need a streaming box/stick or smart tv. 
takes a minute or two to get going.


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## tivaulo (Apr 25, 2008)

mdavej said:


> YTTV records unlimited channels. Skip fwd/back is instant and precise. UI is subjective, but I have no problem with it. Excellent TiVo/cable replacement. I switched from TiVo to streaming/ota 4 years ago and haven't looked back.


Wow, I've been clicking the YTTV adds off without even looking at it. I thought it was just to watch Youtube without the ads. Need to take a better look at it now.



Pokemon_Dad said:


> Nothing would be as easy as just jacking in a new TiVo, and I'd look for another Roamio. Read up on the Edge before you buy one. The Bolt was terrible. I believe the Roamio Pro was the last great TiVo ever produced, and highly recommend buying one with upgraded storage and a warranty from WeaKnees.


I can't believe that sticking with the Roamio actually seems like the best idea. I had read about the Bolt being a dude, but the Edge being bad too is pretty sad, although not surprising. Weaknees prices are pretty high. I believe they are even higher now than what I paid 7 years ago. So if if anything I'll go the ebay route instead. Thanks for setting me straight.



tommage1 said:


> What drive did you try in your Roamio, model number? I assume you are using TE3 since you mention you like the UI and are a long time Tivo user? If not, ie you "upgraded" to TE4, then the drive model for replacement even more critical. Either OS CMR is the way to go though, NOT SMR. Post the model, and/or try a drive you KNOW is CMR, the fact that it's even getting into a boot loop kinda makes me think the Tivo itself might be ok.


Yes, it's TE3. It's a Roamio Plus with a replaced 2GB HD. I was hoping it was the HD because the date on it says 2013. But maybe I should try a third HD, who knows, **** happens twice in a row sometimes.

I also found my old Premiere, with a working HD! So, I'll be using it as soon as I talk to Spectrum about swapping my cable card to a new device. This should take the urgency away while I figure my next move. How the old lady reacts to the new normal will probably dictate my choice.

Thanks guys, very helpful suggestions.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

tivaulo said:


> Wow, I've been clicking the YTTV adds off without even looking at it. I thought it was just to watch Youtube without the ads. Need to take a better look at it now.
> 
> I can't believe that sticking with the Roamio actually seems like the best idea. I had read about the Bolt being a dude, but the Edge being bad too is pretty sad, although not surprising. Weaknees prices are pretty high. I believe they are even higher now than what I paid 7 years ago. So if if anything I'll go the ebay route instead. Thanks for setting me straight.


 It really is a shame that TiVo's hardware went downhill... just wanted to put my two cents in... I have been with TiVo since the premier and I have had a Bolt for three years with no issues yet. I did add some external cooling based on recommendations on the forums and so far so good.... not sure if life expectancy will be as good as previous models. I just purchased a backup toshiba hard drive just in case. Tivo hardware failure was not as prevalent with Roamio models and before.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

tivaulo said:


> Wow, I've been clicking the YTTV adds off without even looking at it. I thought it was just to watch Youtube without the ads. Need to take a better look at it now.


That's "Youtube Premium" which is indeed Youtube without ads. "Youtube TV" is an entirely different service that has nothing to do with Youtube content. Another clue is the price. Youtube Premium is $11.99 and gives you Youtube videos with no ads. Youtube TV is $64.99 and gives you 85 or so traditional cable TV channels (HGTV, ESPN, FOX, etc.) and unlimited cloud DVR. It's a streaming alternative to cable/satellite TV without the equipment or bogus fees.

If you decided to switch from cable to YTTV or similar streaming service like AT&T TV, Hulu Live TV, Philo, etc., then your Tivo would be redundant. If you decide to keep cable, then the above streaming services would be redundant. It's one or the other, not both. For me, Spectrum was running well over $100 for the same channels I get with YTTV, so switching to YTTV was a no-brainer. The biggest thing you need to consider is if the streaming provider you're considering actually carries all the channels you watch and how much it costs.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tivaulo said:


> Yes, it's TE3. It's a Roamio Plus with a replaced 2GB HD. I was hoping it was the HD because the date on it says 2013. But maybe I should try a third HD, who knows, **** happens twice in a row sometimes.


Well you still did not post the actual model number of the drive/drives. The one that was in there, I don't need to know as I know it was working before. But the replacement you tried, that one I would need to know actual model number. And did you run diagnostics on the replacement?

Don't pitch the Roamio regardless, if you can't get it to work I'd give ya shipping to send it to me. I'd try to fix it (pretty much drive or possible power supply, I'm guessing drive). If I can you could have it back for whatever expenses I have, shipping/parts.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tivaulo said:


> Yes, it's TE3. It's a Roamio Plus with a replaced 2GB HD. I was hoping it was the HD because the date on it says 2013. But maybe I should try a third HD, who knows, **** happens twice in a row sometimes.


There is something else you can try before you'd consider shipping etc. Called kickstart commands. They can be finicky depending on device or OS. However since you are in a boot loop anyway should not matter. I'd try KS58 first. If that does not work try KS 57. If that does not work try KS76543210. The last resets everything so you'd lose all recordings, settings and cable card pairing. To run the KS commands you need remote to be in IR mode, not RF. However since you have a Premiere you could most likely just use the Premiere remote to run the KS on the Roamio. Just make sure the Premiere is powered down so you are not controlling it while using it's remote to run KS on Roamio.

Keep in mind some of the KS commands can take HOURS to complete. Some will bring up a green screen of death, talks about serious error. That is normal. Just let run a few hours at least (especially the 57 or 76543210). You can search the forums for how to initiate the KS commands, should be fairly easy to find. Or there are instructions on Weaknees site I believe.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tivaulo said:


> I also found my old Premiere, with a working HD! So, I'll be using it as soon as I talk to Spectrum about swapping my cable card to a new device. This should take the urgency away while I figure my next move. How the old lady reacts to the new normal will probably dictate my choice.


I am not sure how Spectrum cable cards work but with Comcast if the card is activated you will get the majority of the channels without it being paired. Needs to be paired to get premium channels and a handful of others. So if I were you I'd just put the cable card in the Premiere and see what happens, don't call Spectrum. If you do, and they switch the pairing, then if you end up with the Roamio working you'd have to pair it again. Again switching around the cable card will work with Comcast (for non premium channels), I can't speak for Spectrum.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> I am not sure how Spectrum cable cards work


I have Comcast, but I'm told Spectrum encrypts everything. So every channel is like a premium channel.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I have Comcast, but I'm told Spectrum encrypts everything. So every channel is like a premium channel.


Ah, if true then would have to be paired. If I was tivaulao I'd still try the kickstarts and/or another drive before switching the pairing though.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I have Comcast, but I'm told Spectrum encrypts everything. So every channel is like a premium channel.


Well, it depends. Charter (the brand is Spectrum, but the company is Charter) has tended to leave the channel flagging as it was when they acquired the franchise. For the biggest acquisition, TWC (who was actually bigger than Charter before the acquisition) who flagged all channels (other than the locals and the PEGs) as copy-once, you should expect that only those solutions that provide a full encrypted content path to function. But there are still some franchises which are different.

Many have expected that Charter (like Comcast) would *eventually* create a nationwide standard and roll it out. It has not (yet?) happened, which means "Your Mileage *WILL* vary".

The best way forward is to get full validation so there are no unexpected surprises at some point in the future.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

I think the Tivo interface is still way better than anything Cable has to offer and any other DVR. I dropped Charter TV almost 10 years ago because their TV with Internet service was just too expensive in my opinion. But since they changed their name to Spectrum now their internet bill for my area has increased several times within a year, it's $75 a month now which I think it too expensive as well. And they don't have any less expensive plans and nothing else is a good deal in my area, it sucks! Internet should be getting less expensive, not more. Add in a Netflix subscription and a few others and the monthly bill can be just as expensive (or more), as a Spectrum TV/Internet combo package. I'm not even interested in their phone package, as I have a first generation Ooma and it cost me nothing per month (no state taxes), even though I don't even need that phone, everyone uses cell phones now. Guess I'm just nostalgic to my house number of 22 years.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

@Resist, I just dropped Spectrum in favor of T-Mobile Home Internet which is $50. It's slower than Spectrum, but I don't need blazing fast speed. If you get a good signal, it should work fine. If you decide you don't like it after a couple of months, you can go back to Spectrum and get the new customer rates at least.


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## SilentTuba (Dec 17, 2020)

MrDell said:


> I was definitely going to go the streaming route and OTA with my Bolt but just got an offer from Fios to renew for two years. They had a package for non-sports fans.... gigabyte internet, phone, and cable with all the popular channels minus sports for $109.00 per month including taxes and fees and card rental.. and no data caps. Sounded good so I just signed up. I probably could have saved a few pennies with streaming but I really like the way Tivo works with Fios and the convenience of all of the features.


I just signed up for fios again after a few years with Optimum, and have an install coming in a few weeks. I really appreciate their current pricing model; no contracts, no "deals" where the price jumps significantly after two years, and no added fees, everything is included in the quoted price. I'll be getting 300mbps internet for $40 a month, and for the first two months, the Fios "Test Drive" package, which is basically two months of their top tier tv package for $50 a month. After that you have to choose which package you want, and I'm likely going to go with the "More Fios" package, which is $70 a month. Total cost for cable, internet, and cablecard will be $115 a month, with no equipment rental save the card.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

SilentTuba said:


> I just signed up for fios again after a few years with Optimum, and have an install coming in a few weeks. I really appreciate their current pricing model; no contracts, no "deals" where the price jumps significantly after two years, and no added fees, everything is included in the quoted price. I'll be getting 300mbps internet for $40 a month, and for the first two months, the Fios "Test Drive" package, which is basically two months of their top tier tv package for $50 a month. After that you have to choose which package you want, and I'm likely going to go with the "More Fios" package, which is $70 a month. Total cost for cable, internet, and cablecard will be $115 a month, with no equipment rental save the card.


That sounds like a nice deal....we considered that but we decided to keep our landline phone so we chose the bundle with the phone. I know landlines are becoming a thing of the past but my wife and I are so used to having a landline we thought we would miss having it... our kids think we are crazy


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## SilentTuba (Dec 17, 2020)

MrDell said:


> That sounds like a nice deal....we considered that but we decided to keep our landline phone so we chose the bundle with the phone. I know landlines are becoming a thing of the past but my wife and I are so used to having a landline we thought we would miss having it... our kids think we are crazy


And one of my favorite things about the way they do their prices now is that I won't be paying for a phone line I don't want, because it makes my cable and internet costs cheaper! To each their own, I guess, haha!

if I went with their "Fios My Way" TV package, I could get the bill down to $95 a month, all in. I don't like the way that plan works, and every configuration I tried online left out lots of channels I would want (you pick your five favorite channels, and their algorithm fills in the rest). So, after the test drive (which will cost us $95 a month for 2 months), we'll go with the "More Fios" plan. Still saving me $15 a month over Optimum, and I love the idea of not having any of their equipment in the house.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

SilentTuba said:


> So, after the test drive (which will cost us $95 a month for 2 months), we'll go with the "More Fios" plan. Still saving me $15 a month over Optimum, and I love the idea of not having any of their equipment in the house.


Yes..... No Verizon equipment!! What is so nice is the way Verizon and Tivo work so well together. I have Cox available in our area also but really don't want the hassle of tuning adapters .... and because of this competition prices are always in line!! Good luck with your install!


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## tivaulo (Apr 25, 2008)

Well, I've been trough a ride today that tested my kung-fu capabilities to stay cool in the middle of chaos. But first let me answer a couple posts from tommage1.
WARNING - LONG TEXT BELOW



tommage1 said:


> There is something else you can try before you'd consider shipping etc. Called kickstart commands. They can be finicky depending on device or OS. However since you are in a boot loop anyway should not matter. I'd try KS58 first. If that does not work try KS 57. If that does not work try KS76543210. The last resets everything so you'd lose all recordings, settings and cable card pairing. To run the KS commands you need remote to be in IR mode, not RF. However since you have a Premiere you could most likely just use the Premiere remote to run the KS on the Roamio. Just make sure the Premiere is powered down so you are not controlling it while using it's remote to run KS on Roamio.
> 
> Keep in mind some of the KS commands can take HOURS to complete. Some will bring up a green screen of death, talks about serious error. That is normal. Just let run a few hours at least (especially the 57 or 76543210). You can search the forums for how to initiate the KS commands, should be fairly easy to find. Or there are instructions on Weaknees site I believe.


Thanks, I will bookmark this post for when the time comes, but the Roamio problem now feels like something that happened two years ago after today.



tommage1 said:


> I am not sure how Spectrum cable cards work but with Comcast if the card is activated you will get the majority of the channels without it being paired.


When I talked to the spectrum rep, she told the local channels were not encrypted. But from previous experience I would say at least 90% of all channels are. Anyway, changing the card with Spectrum was cake compared with the rest.

Now, about today. I'm going to try not to whine too much so I'll jump through some details.

So the Premiere working again was nice. Still had some old shows in it and I felt very melancholic of the good old days when I saw the big Tivo Godzilla guy walking through town on startup. But... the guide never loaded. Going through the Network connection, everything went fine with downloading the guide, but on the last step the Premiere rebooted instead. Soon I got sick of the Tivozilla guy again...

Then I went through the clear data method, and shortly after two ice ages it got done. But the guide still failed to load. I'm pretty sure now it's the famous S03 error, although I didn't look for this error number, but it was an irrecoverable error or something like that. This was all Sunday night.

So Monday morning I decided to try something different. I was afraid of doing a reset because I didn't trust the software to go back to normal, so I tried the Guided Setup again. I imagined that in 7 years something had changed on the Tivo side and the guided setup seemed like a harmless way of poking the beast.

And that's when I got to meet the guided setup endless loop... Now I had the boot loop on the Roamio and Guided Setup loop on the Premiere. I may be harsh saying this but it seems to me that Tivo hired expert monkeys to write their software. No offense to monkeys!

After finding out that the only way out was finding my original HD, or creating a new one, and remembering how painful that process was 10 or so years ago, I said enough is enough (like a famous guy) and walked out the door towards the Spectrum store to grab me a sh_itty DVR. I'm lucky, the store is close enough.

And that's when things started getting real dangerous to my mental health. After 1 hour or so waiting in line, and listening to some lady asking the customer service on how to reset her Amazon device, I got "helped". It was short and unsweetened. The lady said that the account was in my wife's name and I was not authorized to get a new DVR. But, I know very well that we had fixed this issue 10 or more years ago. I knew that. It came up once before and we fixed, there was no doubt about it. But I forgot that it was done with Adelphia, or Time Warner or whatever the *uck name the company had back then. Spectrum is a new monster and most likely lost the post it note that they had attached to my folder saying that I was cool to do shït.

So after calming myself down a little, I figured I would call my wife and she could call Spectrum to put me as an authorized user so I wouldn't waste another hour in line for Spectrum's wonderful customer disaster the next day. Luckily she was home and picked up the phone and called the guy on another phone. See, she's a technophobe and I've been doing everything techy for the almost 40 years that we've been together.

Everything was going fine until the guy asked for the 4 digit pass code. To my luck, I had left the computer on and the screen on. But my info is on a file that's 63 pages long and luckily unencrypted. I had to teach her how to use ctrl+F to find the info, which she did, but then finding the high-lighted text on the screen right in front of her was too much. I'm not blaming her because I thought she had gone pretty far, but it was like dying on the beach at that point. I could really feel my brain shaking trying to get out because the pressure being built was too much. But she eventually she found the code and I didn't go "Falling Down" inside the store. Note to youngsters, that's an old movie with Michael Douglas. And it's a JOKE!

So I finally got the DVR and went back home happily there after...

Or so I thought! After installing the DVR I get this message that the channel is not available on my service and I could "upgrade" to add that channel. All channels said that. Knowing fully well that Spectrum hates me for never changing my grandfathered service, I didn't bite that one.

Then I call Spectrum, just to listen that they were experiencing an outage in my area and they couldn't activate my new device. But I had just checked on the website and the device was activated and I "refreshed" it once to make them happy. So I waited for a person to talk to. A guy came and said the outage was gone already, but the phone computer lady never got the news. He was very helpful and knowledgeable, but that's no pair to a system designed to make people feel like sh_it. So I spent another hour with the poor guy on the phone.

He gave up. Offered to send physical help to check the cables. I politely declined, citing that it was working earlier today. And mentioned that at that point I was ready to kick all those big companies (Tivo, Spectrum) and go with a REAL big company, Google. And that maybe their servers are really slow to update and I'd try it again later on. Shush, maybe the service outage was till on and HE had the wrong info! Anything is possible with this company.

So we hang up, and I watched some TV through my phone casting to the big screen. Amazing how clear the signal is, even wirelessly. I could even live like that if their phone app was better I thought. Maybe it is time to go sign up with YTTV I thought. And I turned the DVR on again just to see if the problem got fixed. But the damn machine boot time is comparable to my windows 95 back then, so I went to the bedroom to work on my new YTTV option. Thanks imagexpo!

While looking for the free trial I realized that Google, (a company that I don't trust not just because of their size, but because of their finicky approach to things (see, there is little guarantee that YTTV will be around longer than my brand new TV)) had changed their free trial to just 5 days. SOBs I thought, but I saw a promo code box and I went looking for one. Went through all the sleazy websites but nothing. Only mentions of previous deals.

Then I got up to get some water and the fooking tv was working!!

Just like that I felt like that the dark cloud had finally left from above me and life was good again. I ended up not signing up with YTTV, but that's high on my priority now. Maybe some deal will come by in the next couple weeks with longer trial or something. Who knows.

For right now I'm sitting on this. I'll try to find the old Premiere HD and see if I can revive it. And try the codes suggested on the Roamio. But my path seems more like a good fat kick in the ass of Tivo and Spectrum's TV package than anything else right now. I could use the money I save to increase my internet speed even more. Who knows, losing Tivo now could be the best thing that happened to me.

That's a far travel from where I was just three days ago, and the odds of all this crap happening in a row are very very small. But life beats our imagination all the time. So Goodbye Tivo, it's been nice. Hope I can find my paradise.


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## tivaulo (Apr 25, 2008)

Resist said:


> I think the Tivo interface is still way better than anything Cable has to offer and any other DVR. I dropped Charter TV almost 10 years ago because their TV with Internet service was just too expensive in my opinion. But since they changed their name to Spectrum now their internet bill for my area has increased several times within a year, it's $75 a month now which I think it too expensive as well. And they don't have any less expensive plans and nothing else is a good deal in my area, it sucks! Internet should be getting less expensive, not more. Add in a Netflix subscription and a few others and the monthly bill can be just as expensive (or more), as a Spectrum TV/Internet combo package. I'm not even interested in their phone package, as I have a first generation Ooma and it cost me nothing per month (no state taxes), even though I don't even need that phone, everyone uses cell phones now. Guess I'm just nostalgic to my house number of 22 years.


Port your house number to Google and use an old cell phone on wifi as your "landline". There are a few steps to get there but it's been working pretty well for a few years now. Cost is a one time $25 fee to Google and whatever it costs you to port to a cell company first. Mine was free because I have extra lines on Tmobile. Phone service through google is free and fairly reliable.


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## jaimz2 (Dec 22, 2001)

I still have Charter and a Bolt with a cable card. Every once in a while some channels won't come in but I just unplug bolt and cable card tuner and it comes back on. I pay ~$140 for cable, internet and tivo. I like the commercial skip with the press of the green button. Can't replace that in anything I have seen.


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## 19972000muskrat (Jan 2, 2008)

MScottC said:


> And just several months ago, I had this massive debate here with someone who insisted that streaming was a far better experience than a local DVR. I'm glad you all feel the same. It's too bad we don't have better local DVR solutions ready for us.


Yeah I have been using ATT Now for 3 years now and it has never got anywhere close to being as responsive as my Tivo plus I only get a whopping 20 hrs of DVR space. If I hadn't got in early and still have a good deal on it I would have quit it by now. Luckily I get all the major stations on my antenna so I don't have to watch local stations on ATT.


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## Tivohud (Jan 11, 2003)

I called Spectrum over the holidays to look at dropping my landline. We're grandfathered on an old Brighthouse plan so any change would also require a new TV plan. They said that under a new plan they would not support the cablecard and tuning adapter for my Tivo. No changes have been made, but it looks like my future with Tivo is very limited.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

Tivohud said:


> They said that under a new plan they would not support the cablecard and tuning adapter for my Tivo.


That is unlikely (even some of the plans such as their Choice plan, where they officially do not mention the ability to use a CableCARDs but only streaming devices, reportedly work fine (no personal experience there, but reported by others)), but many CSRs no longer have any training on CableCARDs, so default to saying it is no longer supported. I know a number of people on both legacy plans, and the newer SPP plans, with CableCARDs. But sometimes you have to ask, ask again, and then escalate, to get someone who knows about CableCARDs. Of course, as is always the case with every provider which has grown by acquisitions, there are location specific exceptions for every generality.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tivaulo said:


> For right now I'm sitting on this. I'll try to find the old Premiere HD and see if I can revive it. And try the codes suggested on the Roamio. But my path seems more like a good fat kick in the ass of Tivo and Spectrum's TV package than anything else right now. I could use the money I save to increase my internet speed even more. Who knows, losing Tivo now could be the best thing that happened to me


You can also try the kickstart commands on the Premiere (current drive, not the one you are looking for). I'm going to guess might need the 76543210 for the Premiere (but try the 58 and 57 first). Once you know how to do it it's very simple, time wise for you next to nothing, actual labor, the time involved is just waiting the possible hours for the KS commands to complete.

And remember, don't pitch the Roamio (or the Premiere). Assuming they have lifetime service. I'd be interested in trying to fix the Roamio for sure. There are a good amount of things to try, since I have done this many times in the past I could probably isolate whatever is wrong within an hour or two. The KS commands are one of the things I would try. And if I can fix (I do have a drive that should/would work), I would send back if you want, assuming you cover out of pocket expenses, probably mostly the shipping costs. Up to you, I myself will not give up my Tivos as nothing is nearly as good, if only considering the DVR/recording section.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

I posted last August considering ditching Tivo/Cable, as I moved and realized the rental property could not get cable after I moved (long story). I have been doing YTTV in the meantime, trying it, and have been pretty impressed. 
I am moving back to the city now and have spectrum for internet at the new place, but I just cant do cable with them again, with my Tivo, after the last few years of endless issues with their tuning adapters and their lack of even really wanting to support them, never mind the prices. So I am thinking I am done with Tivo DVRs, after 14 or so years, which I am very bittersweet about. 
But as others said, its more about the cable companies than the Tivo itself. 
Im looking at the Tivo stream device now, but it looks like YTTV isnt supported into its main interface/guide, though you can use the YTTV app on the Tifo Stream 4K itself.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

MrDell said:


> I was definitely going to go the streaming route and OTA with my Bolt but just got an offer from Fios to renew for two years. They had a package for non-sports fans.... gigabyte internet, phone, and cable with all the popular channels minus sports for $109.00 per month including taxes and fees and card rental.. and no data caps. Sounded good so I just signed up. I probably could have saved a few pennies with streaming but I really like the way Tivo works with Fios and the convenience of all of the features.


That really sounds too good to be true. This includes broadcsat tv fees? cablecards?


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Sequoia225 said:


> Im looking at the Tivo stream device now, but it looks like YTTV isnt supported into its main interface/guide, though you can use the YTTV app on the Tifo Stream 4K itself.


As you may have seen here, many have stripped out the TiVo/Sling interface to create a fully functioning Android TV device. And many of them have installed Channels DVR, which supports most channels on YTTV and many other services including Locast, as well as OTA with an HDHR tuner if you've got the patience for that sort of thing.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

tivaulo said:


> Port your house number to Google and use an old cell phone on wifi as your "landline". There are a few steps to get there but it's been working pretty well for a few years now. Cost is a one time $25 fee to Google and whatever it costs you to port to a cell company first. Mine was free because I have extra lines on Tmobile. Phone service through google is free and fairly reliable.


The download speeds won't be good at all for my area with my carrier (T-Mobile), otherwise I would have done that a long time ago. I used to get dropped calls all the time with my cell out of my house. T-Mobile sent me a box that uses my internet to basically make internet calls. I was like, so you want me to pay you every month to make calls using my own internet? If I'm going to do that I might as well use my own landline that connected to my internet via an Ooma, which costs me nothing per month. So for now looks like I'm stuck paying Spectrums extortion increases to have internet.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

mattyro7878 said:


> That really sounds too good to be true. This includes broadcsat tv fees? cablecards?


 Yes... that is the final bill including all fees and taxes and cable card rental .... I think not having any sports channels helps bringing the cost down too. Also, we are very fortunate to have Cox in our area so prices are very competitive because people are very likely to switch if good deals are not offered.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

MrDell said:


> Yes... that is the final bill including all fees and taxes and cable card rental .... I think not having any sports channels helps bringing the cost down too. Also, we are very fortunate to have Cox in our area so prices are very competitive because people are very likely to switch if good deals are not offered.


Wow, amazing what a little competition will do.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

MrDell said:


> Yes... that is the final bill including all fees and taxes and cable card rental .... I think not having any sports channels helps bringing the cost down too. Also, we are very fortunate to have Cox in our area so prices are very competitive because people are very likely to switch if good deals are not offered.


I am an xfinity customer but had Fox for quite a while. Other than the need for tuning adapters I was happy with their service. Other than Comcast being a monstrous monopoly who could make all tivo users lives better, I am satisfied with them as well.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

MrDell said:


> I was definitely going to go the streaming route and OTA with my Bolt but just got an offer from Fios to renew for two years. They had a *package for non-sports fans*.... gigabyte internet, phone, and cable with all the popular channels minus sports for $109.00 per month including taxes and fees and card rental.. and no data caps. Sounded good so I just signed up. I probably could have saved a few pennies with streaming but I really like the way Tivo works with Fios and the convenience of all of the features.


I wonder what you would save if they offered local channels as an optional add-on. Some would pay, some would BYO, and some would do without. I think this is getting close to the 'a la carte' people have been clamoring for. Imagine signing up for high speed internet then selecting options from local channels to cable fillers to sports to premium channels? They could even provide some of the diginets cord cutters have come to love. Sign me up.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Wow, amazing what a little competition will do.


I know.... Before Fios came to town Cox really took advantage because they were the only act in town.... now they changed their toon because of the competition!


wizwor said:


> I wonder what you would save if they offered local channels as an optional add-on. Some would pay, some would BYO, and some would do without. I think this is getting close to the 'a la carte' people have been clamoring for. Imagine signing up for high speed internet then selecting options from local channels to cable fillers to sports to premium channels? They could even provide some of the diginets cord cutters have come to love. Sign me up.


I think that you are absolutely right... Verizon came under attack from the cable channels when they first implemented their "Custom TV" packages but they didn't listen and still offer them today. They have 5 packages you can pick from .... some geared for sports fans, some for information (Discovery etc) some for children ( Cartoon Network mtv etc). ... the nice thing is that you can go online and log in and switch packages at no cost. Within 5 minutes your TiVo cable card is updated and your good to go. The only thing is that if you get anything with sports you get the $8.95 sports fees. I am not an avid sports fan so I save the fees because of not choosing that package which is nice not paying for something you would not watch!!


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

The question is who get there first. IMHO, Amazon is already there. Local channels (Recast), cable fillers (Philo, Pluto), and premium channels (Prime channels) -- who could ask for more...for less?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Sequoia225 said:


> Im looking at the Tivo stream device now, but it looks like YTTV isnt supported into its main interface/guide, though you can use the YTTV app on the Tifo Stream 4K itself.


I would recommend the new Chromecast with Google TV. Like the TiVo Stream 4K, it runs Android TV apps and features the Google Assistant, but this device is made by Google itself. It has a new home screen UI called Google TV which aggregates content from across major streaming services (sort of like the TiVo app does on the TiVo Stream 4K). The "Live" tab in the Google TV UI has a grid guide for YTTV. (In the future it's supposed to support additional live channel sources too.)

I got my parents one as a Christmas gift and used it extensively. It's a very nice device for $50.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> I would recommend the new Chromecast with Google TV. ...
> 
> I got my parents one as a Christmas gift and used it extensively. It's a very nice device for $50.


And even better at $12 or less, effectively, if you're a Netflix subscriber and get one via the 6-month Netflix credit promo bundle.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> I would recommend the new Chromecast with Google TV. Like the TiVo Stream 4K, it runs Android TV apps and features the Google Assistant, but this device is made by Google itself. It has a new home screen UI called Google TV which aggregates content from across major streaming services (sort of like the TiVo app does on the TiVo Stream 4K). The "Live" tab in the Google TV UI has a grid guide for YTTV. (In the future it's supposed to support additional live channel sources too.)
> 
> I got my parents one as a Christmas gift and used it extensively. It's a very nice device for $50.


Sorry, Im not clear on what the Chromecast does that the Tivo Stream 4K does not. The 4K aggregates content right?

I also dont understand what YTTV is vs Google TV.

Thoughts?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Sequoia225 said:


> Sorry, Im not clear on what the Chromecast does that the Tivo Stream 4K does not. The 4K aggregates content right?
> 
> I also dont understand what YTTV is vs Google TV.
> 
> Thoughts?


The two devices are similar but they have different content aggregation systems.

On the TiVo Stream 4K, content is aggregated in the TiVo Stream app, where you can browse through content from several different services, maintain a single "My Shows" watchlist, etc. This app also has a linear channel grid guide that contains the free "TiVo+" streaming channels as well as streaming channels from Sling TV if you subscribe to it. You launch the TiVo Stream app from the Android TV home screen, just as you might launch any other app, OR by simply pressing the TiVo button on the remote. Check out these short tutorial clips to see all this in action:
















On the Chromecast with Google TV, content is aggregated in a new system/UI called Google TV. Google TV *is* the device's homescreen instead of the regular Android TV home screen found on the TiVo Stream 4K and other Android TV devices like the Nvidia Shield TV, Mi Box S, etc. Google TV offers suggested content from across various services, tailored to your likes and the services you tell it you subscribe to. It also has a unified watchlist feature. (You can even add titles to your Google TV watchlist from a Google search results page in a web browser, or see the entire watchlist by Googling "my watchlist.")

And, if you subscribe to YouTube TV, the Google TV homescreen also has a "Live" tab that features a traditional cable TV-style grid guide for all the linear channels you get in your YouTube TV package. (YouTube TV, as you may know, is simply cable TV service that streams over any internet connection, similar to Sling TV.)

See the animated screenshot here to see the Google TV home screen in action.

Here's a pic of its Live tab featuring YouTube TV channels:









There are various reasons why anyone might prefer one device over the other. But if you subscribe to Sling TV, you'll get a greater degree of integration on the TiVo Stream 4K. If you subscribe to YouTube TV, you'll get a greater degree of integration on the Chromecast with Google TV. (Google says that additional live TV services will be integrated into the Google TV "Live" tab in the future, though.)


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> On the Chromecast with Google TV, content is aggregated in a new system/UI called Google TV.


Is this Chromecast a completely different product than what launched as Chromecast? My recollection is that that device simply presented content aggregated on another device (FireTV Tablet, for instance) to the television. Does that launch model work the same way (I have one someplace)?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

wizwor said:


> Is this Chromecast a completely different product than what launched as Chromecast? My recollection is that that device simply presented content aggregated on another device (FireTV Tablet, for instance) to the television. Does that launch model work the same way (I have one someplace)?


This new product still uses the familiar Chromecast brand name but it's actually a full-blown Android TV device with its own remote control and on-screen user interface that runs apps itself (much like the TiVo Stream 4K). And like the original Chromecast, it also can be used as a receptor for content you cast to it from apps on a phone or tablet, or from inside the Chrome browser on a computer.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> This new product still uses the familiar Chromecast brand name but it's actually a full-blown Android TV device with its own remote control and on-screen user interface that runs apps itself (much like the TiVo Stream 4K). And like the original Chromecast, it also can be used as a receptor for content you cast to it from apps on a phone or tablet, or from inside the Chrome browser on a computer.


OK. Thanks. I won't go looking for the other -- which I thought was a piece of crap.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

wizwor said:


> OK. Thanks. I won't go looking for the other -- which I thought was a piece of crap.


The original Chromecast works well for what it does. There are plenty of folks who prefer to use their phones as their means of browsing for content and then use the phone as the remote control. Very handy for big-screen viewing of your personal photos in Google Photos. Also, if you have Google smart speakers (as I do), then you can just tell it turn on your TV and play music or video there.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> The two devices are similar but they have different content aggregation systems.
> 
> On the TiVo Stream 4K, content is aggregated in the TiVo Stream app, where you can browse through content from several different services, maintain a single "My Shows" watchlist, etc. This app also has a linear channel grid guide that contains the free "TiVo+" streaming channels as well as streaming channels from Sling TV if you subscribe to it. You launch the TiVo Stream app from the Android TV home screen, just as you might launch any other app, OR by simply pressing the TiVo button on the remote. Check out these short tutorial clips to see all this in action:
> 
> )


Thank you very much for this post.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

Sigh, I still cant decide what I want. Everytime I research further, I read about problems with the TS4K and also the CCwGTV. 

I am moving again and just bought a new tv - a 65" OLED. My current TV (LG 55") isnt even a smart TV so its a nice step up. 
I loved Tivo for so many years - was using my Premiere XL4 until last summer when I moved then (though the streaming apps on it sucked, I used my PS4 for that. I just cant do tivo/cable card anymore with the endless glitchiness of the tuner adapters and the price. 

My attraction to the Tivo Stream 4K is partly just from always having such a good experience with Tivo equipment for so many years. They did a good job being the best at what they did (in my opinion) for so long. But in some ways, the CCwGTV sounds a bit better and less problematic. 

I need to look into Sling more and compare it with YTTV as I know little about Sling.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

The Stream 4k really has nothing to do with Tivo equipment. They've made that perfectly clear.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Sequoia225 said:


> Sigh, I still cant decide what I want. Everytime I research further, I read about problems with the TS4K and also the CCwGTV.
> 
> I am moving again and just bought a new tv - a 65" OLED. My current TV (LG 55") isnt even a smart TV so its a nice step up.
> I loved Tivo for so many years - was using my Premiere XL4 until last summer when I moved then (though the streaming apps on it sucked, I used my PS4 for that. I just cant do tivo/cable card anymore with the endless glitchiness of the tuner adapters and the price.
> ...


I would encourage you to think about which video service(s) you plan to use. Sounds like you still want a service with live cable TV channels and DVR features. Is that right? Which one(s) are you interested in: YTTV, AT&T TV, Fubo TV, Hulu with Live TV, or Sling? Are you hoping for a service that comes as close as possible to the user experience you're used to with traditional cable plus a TiVo DVR? What are your must-have channels? Here's a handy website, BTW, for comparing the various cable TV services: Suppose... you could design your perfect TV service

Do you plan to use any other services like Netflix, Prime Video, HBO Max, Hulu, Disney+, YouTube, etc? Do you use free OTA TV and want to access that via your streaming device too?

If you can tell us what services and user features you value, then we can give advice on what streaming device might be the best choice. It's all kind of a confusing mess for the average consumer.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> If you can tell us what services and user features you value, then we can give advice on what streaming device might be the best choice. It's all kind of a confusing mess for the average consumer.


Interesting website you posted (suppose). 
I guess in short, I dont want to pay for traditional cable TV anymore (or deal with their tuning adapters/cable cards), so I am giving up on my Tivo Premiere XL4. 
I now own a new smart TV and have only used my PS4 for streaming apps so far (the Tivo Premiere is way too slow with those apps.) Obviously I am very used to the Cable/Tivo setup like you mention, but am willing to adapt to something new.

For live TV, I have been trying out YTTV (thru the PS4). Im fairly impressed with it, I especially like how you can order the channels to your liking, but want to consider other options for Live TV channels that may be cheaper. I dont watch any sports but still like the local channels and CNN and other random "cable" channels. 
For streaming, I use Netflix, Prime, and occasionally Hulu/HBO/Disney+ and Curiosity Stream and I like the idea of these things being aggregated on one screen like these newer streaming devices seem to do.

Bottom line, I just cant really tell how dramatically different these streaming devices are from one another, even after researching them. It sorta seems like they all access pretty much what I would want, but in slightly different ways that almost SEEM negligible just through research and not having used them. And if they are all costing 30-60 bucks, then price is not an issue for deciding for me.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Sequoia225 said:


> For live TV, I have been trying out YTTV (thru the PS4). Im fairly impressed with it, I especially like how you can order the channels to your liking, but want to consider other options for Live TV channels that may be cheaper. I dont watch any sports but still like the local channels and CNN and other random "cable" channels.


You're probably not going to find something you like better overall than YTTV for less money. (The set-up with the most cable-like experience and the best picture and sound quality, and fullest channel packages, would be AT&T TV using their own custom Android TV box and remote, but that's going to cost you a little more money than YTTV, not less. And you may prefer the fact that YTTV lets you keep DVR recordings for 9 months while AT&T TV only keeps them 90 days.) YTTV is $65/mo and so are Fubo TV and Hulu+Live TV.

To pay less than that amount, you'd need to drop down to Sling. Either of their base packages cost $35/mo, and includes CNN and an assortment of other cable channels, but Sling lacks local channels. So if you went that route, you'd need to use an antenna for your locals, and then an in-home DVR if you wanted to record them. Although, keep in mind that primetime non-sports programming on ABC, NBC and Fox is available next-day on the basic Hulu service. CBS content, including its live local channel, is in the CBS All Access app (soon to be renamed Paramount+). And PBS and CW shows are available same-day and next-day, respectively, in their own free apps, although the CW app includes unskippable ads. All that to say that you may not really need an OTA DVR because those apps allow for on-demand access to major network shows. (And various apps should allow you free on-demand access to at least one of your local station's recent newscasts.) But you'd still need an antenna to watch your local channels live (except for CBS, which you can watch live via Paramount+). Anyhow, if you're interested in using an OTA antenna, with or without an OTA DVR, let me know and we can get into that set of options/questions.



Sequoia225 said:


> For streaming, I use Netflix, Prime, and occasionally Hulu/HBO/Disney+ and Curiosity Stream and I like the idea of these things being aggregated on one screen like these newer streaming devices seem to do.
> 
> Bottom line, I just cant really tell how dramatically different these streaming devices are from one another, even after researching them. It sorta seems like they all access pretty much what I would want, but in slightly different ways that almost SEEM negligible just through research and not having used them. And if they are all costing 30-60 bucks, then price is not an issue for deciding for me.


I think that the TV app on the Apple TV 4K probably does the best job of aggregating content, particularly with regard to offering and updating a unified watchlist that spans lots of different streaming services (which is, IMO, one of its best features). There's also much greater consistency in terms of how the playback controls work (via remote control button presses) and appear on-screen among apps on the Apple TV 4K than is the case for other devices; for the most part, apps conform to Apple's suggested guidelines. But unfortunately, an Apple TV 4K costs about $180, not $30-60, so it's in a whole other price range.

No device will aggregate content from every service. The TV app on the ATV4K doesn't integrate Netflix (because Netflix refuses to participate). Google TV on the new Chromecast doesn't integrate Netflix Originals but does integrate the rest of the Netflix catalog. It doesn't integrate CuriosityStream either (although that may get added as time goes by; Google TV is still new). I think the TiVo Stream app on the TiVo Stream 4K integrates Netflix (all of it, AFAIK) as well as the other services you mentioned, except for CuriosityStream. I'm not sure, though, how good a job TiVo does in terms of tracking the availability of content titles as they appear and disappear from the various underlying services/apps. I know in the past (with the OnePass feature on traditional TiVo DVRs), they didn't do so well; a show might appear on Netflix but not be reflected in TiVo's database until a few days later. Apple does a very good job with this in their TV app. From the limited amount of time I've spent with Google TV, I'd say it does a pretty good job.

As mentioned before, among live TV services, Google TV integrates YTTV while the TS4K integrates Sling. Apple's TV app integrates AT&T TV and Fubo TV (and maybe Hulu+Live TV?), although it does not offer a grid-based live channel guide of any kind like the other two do.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

@Sequoia225 one of the main differences between YTTV, Hulu Live TV, etc. is which local channels they carry. As I recall YTTV has everything but PBS in most places, but in many towns you can also use Locast to get the locals. Another alternative is over-the-air TV of course, so let us know if you want to explore that. Or is that not a concern?

Also YTTV and similar services offer "cloud DVRs", but many people record from those services with Channels DVR which is a great TiVo replacement that runs on a local PC, Mac, or NAS and offers clients for Fire TV, Apple TV, Android, and iOS. Which brings up another question: what OS does your smart TV run? Is it something developed by that brand, or is it Android, Fire, Roku, etc? The choice of streamer is a big conversation, and that starts with knowing what you've got there. Or are you happy with the PS4?

There's lots to explore. You may find the following threads good starting points, and there are many more here with the word "cord" in the title.
• TiVo Alternatives?
• SOAK: Tell Me About Your Cord-Cutting Experience!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> @Sequoia225 one of the main differences between YTTV, Hulu Live TV, etc. is which local channels they carry. As I recall YTTV has everything but PBS in most places, but in many towns you can also use Locast to get the locals.


Yes, Locast is a streaming option for live local channels if you live in an area where it's offered. But you'd probably want to "donate" the minimum requested $5/mo in order to get rid of the constant donation nags. And I don't think Locast has a cloud DVR, so it doesn't solve the issue of timeshifting.

As far as locals offered by the streaming cable TV services, YTTV is actually the only one that offers PBS. It also offers locals for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW. The others (except Sling) generally have those five, but not PBS, although any given service might be missing one or more of the locals in your particular market.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks @NashGuy. So hard to keep up with the list of who's got what. I keep looking at all these services regularly, but find they wouldn't save us much if any money due to our cable news and talk addiction. I may soon be approaching Xfinity for a new deal though, and am not sure they'll continue to support CableCARDs with the latest packages, so changes could happen here too.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Thanks @NashGuy. So hard to keep up with the list of who's got what. I keep looking at all these services regularly, but find they wouldn't save us much if any money due to our cable news and talk addiction. I may soon be approaching Xfinity for a new deal though, and am not sure they'll continue to support CableCARDs with the latest packages, so changes could happen here too.


If all you *really* need cable-wise are CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, you can get those (along with HLN, Bloomberg, Newsy, and Cheddar) in Sling's $35/mo Blue package. It's also got Discovery, HGTV, Food, A&E, AMC, AXS TV, Bravo, E!, History, ID, Nat Geo, TLC, TBS, TNT, Travel, TruTV and Vice, so you should be pretty well covered on lifestyle/reality/talk stuff too. And Channels Plus supports Sling for their TVE recording feature. It's actually a pretty solid little live TV bundle for folks who don't need ESPN and get their locals via OTA.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> If all you *really* need cable-wise are CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, you can get those (along with HLN, Bloomberg, Newsy, and Cheddar) in Sling's $35/mo Blue package. It's also got Discovery, HGTV, Food, A&E, AMC, AXS TV, Bravo, E!, History, ID, Nat Geo, TLC, TBS, TNT, Travel, TruTV and Vice, so you should be pretty well covered on lifestyle/reality/talk stuff too. And Channels Plus supports Sling for their TVE recording feature. It's actually a pretty solid little live TV bundle for folks who don't need ESPN and get their locals via OTA.


Thanks! Thinking about it. For the other channels the lack of 5.1 sound would be a drawback if we watched much entertainment that's only on cable. I think we'd mostly do fine with just OTA and streaming plus news/talk on Sling Blue, though sometimes we still get weather interference on OTA so maybe I'd keep basic cable for a while longer. I'm looking forward to seeing if ATSC 3.0 "orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing" is really more robust.

*Edit:* Channels DVR is not working well with Sling. That may be why I keep forgetting about Sling as an option. None of the news/talk channels seem to be working with Channels at this time. I know we can use Sling's own cloud DVR, but that further modifies the WAF among other considerations.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Thanks! Thinking about it. For the other channels the lack of 5.1 sound would be a drawback if we watched much entertainment that's only on cable. I think we'd mostly do fine with just OTA and streaming plus news/talk on Sling Blue, though sometimes we still get weather interference on OTA so maybe I'd keep basic cable for a while longer. I'm looking forward to seeing if ATSC 3.0 "orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing" is really more robust.
> 
> *Edit:* Channels DVR is not working well with Sling. That may be why I keep forgetting about Sling as an option. None of the news/talk channels seem to be working with Channels at this time. I know we can use Sling's own cloud DVR, but that further modifies the WAF among other considerations.


Ah. Bummer about Sling and Channels. As for 3.0's OFDM, yes, more robust transmission that's easier to receive with an indoor antenna and that isn't prone to multipath interference (which is the bane of ATSC 1.0's existence) could actually be its killer feature, not so much its improved picture and sound quality or potential for two-way interactivity via a broadband-connected return path.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> @Sequoia225 one of the main differences between YTTV, Hulu Live TV, etc. is which local channels they carry. As I recall YTTV has everything but PBS in most places, but in many towns you can also use Locast to get the locals. Another alternative is over-the-air TV of course, so let us know if you want to explore that. Or is that not a concern?
> 
> Also YTTV and similar services offer "cloud DVRs", but many people record from those services with Channels DVR which is a great TiVo replacement that runs on a local PC, Mac, or NAS and offers clients for Fire TV, Apple TV, Android, and iOS. Which brings up another question: what OS does your smart TV run? Is it something developed by that brand, or is it Android, Fire, Roku, etc? The choice of streamer is a big conversation, and that starts with knowing what you've got there. Or are you happy with the PS4?


Its this TV so it looks like its LG's own? "webOS"?
For years I lived in an area where OTA didnt work, I am not sure if it will work where I am about to live. Im in the middle of a move, so I havent even opened the TV yet - just bought it, and just moving. I would consider getting a digital antenna for the local channels. What would you guys recommend for an antenna?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Sequoia225 said:


> Its this TV so it looks like its LG's own? "webOS"?
> For years I lived in an area where OTA didnt work, I am not sure if it will work where I am about to live. Im in the middle of a move, so I havent even opened the TV yet - just bought it, and just moving. I would consider getting a digital antenna for the local channels. What would you guys recommend for an antenna?


Your TV does have a tuner. Go to a site like antennaweb.org and enter your address to see what stations you can get and what size/type of antenna you need.

Be aware that YTTV already carries many of your locals, so all an antenna would add is the subchannels that typically just show old re-runs in low definition, something that I personally would not miss. If you intend to keep YTTV, you could probably skip the antenna.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Sequoia225 said:


> Its this TV so it looks like its LG's own? "webOS"?
> For years I lived in an area where OTA didnt work, I am not sure if it will work where I am about to live. Im in the middle of a move, so I havent even opened the TV yet - just bought it, and just moving. I would consider getting a digital antenna for the local channels. What would you guys recommend for an antenna?


You'll find the major apps in LG WebOS, but small companies like Channels DVR will likely never support it. Over the long run you'll probably find the WebOS apps will age out and you'll want one to plug in a Fire/Apple/Android/Roku streaming stick/puck, but it's worth keeping things simple at first and exploring what's in that LG.

Your choice of antenna would depend on how far you are from the transmitters, whether they're all clustered together or spread out across the compass, and whether any stations in your area still use VHF-Low or VHF-Hi, or if they're all UHF. Also indoor vs. outdoor, trees in the way, and the range of weather conditions. Do some research on NoCable.org and manufacturer sites like ChannelMasters Antenna Selection Guide. Make sure you add a grounding block where the antenna cable enters your home. Here are some recent threads on the topic:
OTA Antenna Users - Show Me Yours!
TiVo HD ANTENNA DISCUSSION...

Oh and before I forget, for researching live TV streaming options like YouTube TV, Hulu, and others, I recommend TheStreamable.com


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

mdavej said:


> Your TV does have a tuner. Go to a site like antennaweb.org and enter your address to see what stations you can get and what size/type of antenna you need.
> 
> Be aware that YTTV already carries many of your locals, so all an antenna would add is the subchannels that typically just show old re-runs in low definition, something that I personally would not miss. If you intend to keep YTTV, you could probably skip the antenna.


right, its a matter of either/or. Like I said, for many years I was in a bad spot for OTA, but according to a site I checked last night (like the one you suggested) , Im going to be in a much better spot, so I want to factor it in if I dumped YTTV.


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## Sequoia225 (May 14, 2005)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> You'll find the major apps in LG WebOS, but small companies like Channels DVR will likely never support it. Over the long run you'll probably find the WebOS apps will age out and you'll want one to plug in a Fire/Apple/Android/Roku streaming stick/puck, but it's worth keeping things simple at first and exploring what's in that LG.
> 
> Your choice of antenna would depend on how far you are from the transmitters, whether they're all clustered together or spread out across the compass, and whether any stations in your area still use VHF-Low or VHF-Hi, or if they're all UHF. Also indoor vs. outdoor, trees in the way, and the range of weather conditions. Do some research on NoCable.org and manufacturer sites like ChannelMasters Antenna Selection Guide. Make sure you add a grounding block where the antenna cable enters your home. Here are some recent threads on the topic:
> OTA Antenna Users - Show Me Yours!
> ...


You guys are a weath of information about this current mess of a television service landscape we now have. thank you so much!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Sequoia225 said:


> You guys are a weath of information about this current mess of a television service landscape we now have. thank you so much!


Another site that is useful in case you are considering live cable channel services is Suppose. Type in your zip code, pick out your "must-have" channels, and it will show you your various options with pricing.

Each service has its pros and cons. You can ask us about those, or read the info about them at TheStreamable as suggested above; that site gives good reviews and info.


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