# Can't play some recorded programs



## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

This is a continuation and reoccurance of a problem I posted about last year. Recap and update:

Last year the problem with my several year old Roameo started with some recorded programs not being playable. When I pressed play or selected play the screen would just blink and remain as it was. First it was just a come programs on certain channels. Then it became all programs recorded after a certain date. I could copy the programs to my PC and they would play fine. I could copy them to another Tivo and they would play fine. Also, a video uploaded to the Tivo wouldn't play either.

The hard drive was fine, recoding the video in VideoReDo didn't help. Neither did any of the other trouble shooting fixes suggested to me. I finally gave up and ordered a new Bolt. Everything worked fine on the new Bolt.

I then ran a Clear and Delete Everything on the old Roamio. That actually fixed my problem. The old programs that wouldn't play before did now. Newly recorded programs played fine. I could upload videos an play them as well. So I returned the Bolt.

Everything worked well for about 6 weeks or so. Then I started having the same problem with the Roameo again. So I bought another new Bolt. Everything worked as it should once more with the new Bolt.

The 6 or 7 weeks later the same old problem starts again with the new Bolt. Too late to return it for a refund. It seems now that I can't go more than 6 or 7 weeks between Clear and Delete before the Tivos start acting up again.

Is anyone else having a similar problem? Last time I posted about this there didn't seem to be anyone else with the same problem.

Any thoughts as to a cure? If I can't solve this I may be forced to a cable company DVR. I've owned at least one of every model of Tivo starting with the Series 1, with the exception of the Premiere. I can hardly stand the thought of moving to the cable company DVR.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

It could be the hard drive, being it's the only moving part in modern computers other then a fan it most prone to have things go wrong. They are like car batteries in that they should go for a long time without trouble, but they don't know that. I would talk to Tivo to see if they might work out a deal to get your Bolt working right.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

What's the Temperature reported from the TiVo's?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

rdrrepair said:


> What's the Temperature reported from the TiVo's?


The Bolt, which is now sitting in the open is 55. The Roameo, in a cabinet, is 46.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Stock drives or larger than original? Percentage of recorded programs in each? Number of TiVo boxes listed under your account on the TiVo website?

It sound like a HD to me too. Is it on the same tv set you're experiencing this? I once had a handshake issue with a tv set that kinda sounds like this. It was an older HD Sony rear projection. I solved it by using the component inputs instead of the hdmi.

Sony Tv Causing My Tivo To Freeze

.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> This is a continuation and reoccurance of a problem I posted about last year. Recap and update:
> 
> Last year the problem with my several year old Roameo started with some recorded programs not being playable. When I pressed play or selected play the screen would just blink and remain as it was. First it was just a come programs on certain channels. Then it became all programs recorded after a certain date. I could copy the programs to my PC and they would play fine. I could copy them to another Tivo and they would play fine. Also, a video uploaded to the Tivo wouldn't play either.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering, might it be a software or database conflict/corruption of some type, which is causing the systems to refuse to play a recorded show that is perfectly fine? Just checking, by any chance had you made any alteration to the TiVo software or TiVo box--is the hard drive the original?

Perhaps related, you mentioned that you ran a Clear and Delete Everything on the old Roamio which fixed the problem, and that the old programs that wouldn't play before did, now. The Clear and Delete Everything had wiped out all your content, right? (I haven't run a Clear and Delete Everything before.) Assuming that's the case, where did these old programs that subsequently would play come from--another TiVo box on your network, or your PC? You also mentioned that you could upload videos and play them as well--where did that content come from (your PC)? By any chance, did you customize the metadata for shows being transferred to the box from your PC, if you transferred content that way, and/or did you create metadata files and how? Similarly, did you create folders on the box through transferring content to it from your PC with customized metadata? I'm just wondering if there might be some "outside influence" that might shed some light here, such as metadata corrupting the database/software. Or an issue/conflict caused by personalized/outside-the-TiVo-universe show metadata and metadata on TiVo's own servers.

If you had transferred content to the TiVo box which had originated from outside the "TiVo universe" (i.e. from your PC), I wonder if deleting all such content and starting fresh again through another Clear and Delete Everything might work, this time not moving any content back to your box from your PC (or from another TiVo box that such outside-the-TiVo-universe content now may be on). In other words, keeping the box plain and virgin. If it then seems ok, you could try moving to the box content from another TiVo box but still solely within the TiVo universe--if there then is an issue, that would seem to be a second issue area.

Any other pattern between the use of the various boxes that you can think of, apart from plain vanilla use, that perhaps (unexpectedly) might be causing them to continually revert to a non-playing state?

Dare I mention it, but: might it make sense to contact (gulp) TiVo customer support? Almost certainly, the Tier 1 folks won't have an answer (? but who knows?) and this would have to be escalated to an engineer. Have you yet contacted TiVo--if so, what was the result?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

rdrrepair said:


> Stock drives or larger than original? Percentage of recorded programs in each? Number of TiVo boxes listed under your account on the TiVo website?
> 
> It sound like a HD to me too. Is it on the same tv set you're experiencing this? I once had a handshake issue with a tv set that kinda sounds like this. It was an older HD Sony rear projection. I solved it by using the component inputs instead of the hdmi.
> 
> ...


The Roameo Pro was bought new from Weakknees with their upgrade to 4TB back when the Roameo was fairly new. The Bolt is a stock 3TB bought new directly from Tivo. The Roameo was at about 75% full and the Bolt was probably close to 60% full. I have 5 Tivos and 2 Minis on my account.

I have serious doubts that it is the hard drive. I've owned enough Tivos, and had a few drive failures during that time, that this doesn't act like a hard drive problem. In addition, the video files are not corrupted in any way. They play fine on my PC and if I transfer them to an older Tivo. Also, it's unlikely that I'd have two the identical problem on two different Tivos, one of which was new.

As far as a HDMI problem, I have trouble accepting that also. The problem gets corrected with a clear and delete everything, Even with a different Tivo the problem showed up after about 6 weeks.

One seemingly unrelated problem also occurs at about the same time the unplayable recordings start to show. A really weird problem with creating a new wish list starts as well.

Thank you for your thoughts, but with the problem resurfacing on the two different model Tivos they just don't seem to be very likely the cause of the problem.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I'm wondering, might it be a software or database conflict/corruption of some type, which is causing the systems to refuse to play a recorded show that is perfectly fine? Just checking, by any chance had you made any alteration to the TiVo software or TiVo box--is the hard drive the original?
> 
> Perhaps related, you mentioned that you ran a Clear and Delete Everything on the old Roamio which fixed the problem, and that the old programs that wouldn't play before did, now. The Clear and Delete Everything had wiped out all your content, right? (I haven't run a Clear and Delete Everything before.) Assuming that's the case, where did these old programs that subsequently would play come from--another TiVo box on your network, or your PC? You also mentioned that you could upload videos and play them as well--where did that content come from (your PC)? By any chance, did you customize the metadata for shows being transferred to the box from your PC, if you transferred content that way, and/or did you create metadata files and how? Similarly, did you create folders on the box through transferring content to it from your PC with customized metadata? I'm just wondering if there might be some "outside influence" that might shed some light here, such as metadata corrupting the database/software. Or an issue/conflict caused by personalized/outside-the-TiVo-universe show metadata and metadata on TiVo's own servers.
> 
> ...


The hard drives on both the Roameo and the Bolt are original. The Roameoa was purchased from Weakknees with their 4TB upgrade disk several years ago when the Roameo was a fairly new model. The Bolt is a stock 3TB purchased directly from Tivo. The only software changes were those made by Tivo. This problem started showing up last May. There have been several software changes by Tivo since then.

Sorry I wasn't clear on the Clear and Delete Everything. I copied all the programs that had been recorded on the Tivo to my PC or to other older Tivos I still own before doing the Clear and Delete Everything. Before you ever run Clear and Delete Everything just remember it does exactly what it says, EVERYTHING.
Any videos I uploaded after the problem started wouldn't play. Tivo files from recorded shows, video files or video files with meta data attached. I transfer files to and from the Tivo with Pytivo and use MetaGenerator 3 for meta date. Sometimes I do create folders to upload to.

I've owned at least one of every model of Tivo from the Series 1 to the Bolt, with the exception of the Premiere, and there's nothing I'm doing different. It's really weird that the problem didn't occur for several years with the Roameo, and now it occurs after 6 weeks or so on the Roameo as well the the new Bolt.

What adds to the weirdness, and why I haven't bothered with Tivo support, is that no one else seems to be experiencing the same problem. I started posting about this back in May with the trouble first started and not one person posted that they were having the same problems. Also, I believe we have better experts on strange Tivo behavior right here in these forums than Tivo has available to customers.

I really appreciate your comments and suggestions.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bobfrank said:


> The hard drive was fine, recoding the video in VideoReDo didn't help. Neither did any of the other trouble shooting fixes suggested to me. I finally gave up and ordered a new Bolt. Everything worked fine on the new Bolt.
> 
> I then ran a Clear and Delete Everything on the old Roamio. That actually fixed my problem. The old programs that wouldn't play before did now. Newly recorded programs played fine. I could upload videos an play them as well. So I returned the Bolt.
> 
> ...


The fact that it has happened with 2 different TiVo's (Roamio and the Bolt) and no one else here has reported this would seem to point to something unique in your environment but heck if I can think what it would be. You indicated that the shows would play fine if you transferred them to another TiVo (what other TiVo were you transferring them to?). Did you try just Clear Program and To Do Information versus Clear and Delete Everything? What cable company are you using?

Scott


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Your tv set brand... Is it a Sony?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> The hard drives on both the Roameo and the Bolt are original. The Roameoa was purchased from Weakknees with their 4TB upgrade disk several years ago when the Roameo was a fairly new model. The Bolt is a stock 3TB purchased directly from Tivo. The only software changes were those made by Tivo. This problem started showing up last May. There have been several software changes by Tivo since then.
> 
> Sorry I wasn't clear on the Clear and Delete Everything. I copied all the programs that had been recorded on the Tivo to my PC or to other older Tivos I still own before doing the Clear and Delete Everything. Before you ever run Clear and Delete Everything just remember it does exactly what it says, EVERYTHING.
> Any videos I uploaded after the problem started wouldn't play. Tivo files from recorded shows, video files or video files with meta data attached. I transfer files to and from the Tivo with Pytivo and use MetaGenerator 3 for meta date. Sometimes I do create folders to upload to.
> ...


A few others have reported this issue previously--this is not just you.

I have a hypothesis, that this may be a result of shows from outside the TiVo world being introduced to a TiVo box as a result of a PC-TiVo transfer (and to be included in that, TiVo-to-TiVo transfers where the show being transferred had originated from a PC and from outside the TiVo world).

You mentioned that you transfer content data files from your PC to the TiVo box, with metadata--I take that to mean, with associated metadata files. I am thinking that for some reason (perhaps TiVo's move to its newer database system a few years back?), metadata files associated with PC-transferred files (meaning specifically, content files created not by a TiVo box originally) may cause a conflict with the TiVo software and database and cause a malfunction and/or corruption, which then goes on to affect more than the transferred content files themselves. Now why there would be a time lag for this to manifest itself, I don't know--it almost feels like a corruption that needs to work its way through the TiVo box system, akin to a virus working its way through the system.

It also could be the simple process of transferring a file to a TiVo box from a PC that introduces the corruption factor. But something is suggesting to me, it's not just that--wouldn't more people have been having issues, in that case? Rather, I'm wondering if it's the separate metadata files and metadata that are introducing the corruption/failure factor--fewer people create metadata files, leading to fewer people with issues. Or, possibly, the transfer of content files with associated metadata files where _folders_ will be created on the TiVo box--perhaps that causes a corruption. Or, I guess, it also could be something in certain content files themselves--something in the format, etc.

Before I'm told that I'm totally in "X-Files" land here, recall that TiVo had noted previously that some shows that were transferred between TiVo boxes after TiVo switched its database system a few years back could have transfer issues. For example, I have some old PBS shows that had been recorded on my old Series 2 box that, when transferred to my Bolt, randomly have shown up with completely different show names and graphics, even while other shows in the same show series show up correct.

If one were to experiment, I would say to first Clear and Delete Everything, to hopefully start from a clean slate. Then, don't transfer anything to the box--only use it for new TiVo-made recordings on the box. Is it ok? (The hitch here is, how long to wait, before making this determination--multiple weeks, based on when you saw issues develop previously (hadn't you said that problems would appear 6-7 weeks later?)?)

If it is ok,you now have a baseline of safety. Then perhaps proceed by baby steps to transfer shows to the cleaned TiVo box, starting with shows on other absolutely clean TiVo boxes. I probably would _not_ transfer a show from a box that had been infected and not yet cleaned--it could be that all content files on the box, even ones created by the TiVo box and which did not come from "outside," are infected and would spread the infection to the newly-cleaned box. If that's ok, you then have a new safety baseline. At that point, perhaps transfer some _new_ shows from a PC, _but without any metadata files_. (Again, avoiding any shows that had been on a problematic TiVo box previously, to avoid a possible re-infection caused by those.) If matters remain ok, that's a new baseline.

And then, should you be so brave, you could try transferring to the clean box extra-TiVo content files along with associated metadata files (but not those that would create folders on the TiVo box), and see if anything happens. And then, extra-TiVo content with associated metadata files that will result in folder creation.

The idea would be, to go incrementally and see where, if anywhere, a problem develops, to ascertain what the problem possibly is. To try to speed this process, you also could start in the middle, such as with extra-TiVo content files with or without associated metadata files, or at the "end," with extra-TiVo content files with associated folder-producing metadata files. Have to ponder that some, as to the most efficient means.

I'm just guessing here--no engineer. But I'm wondering if there is a pattern to this all. See what you might think.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

HerronScott said:


> The fact that it has happened with 2 different TiVo's (Roamio and the Bolt) and no one else here has reported this would seem to point to something unique in your environment but heck if I can think what it would be. You indicated that the shows would play fine if you transferred them to another TiVo (what other TiVo were you transferring them to?). Did you try just Clear Program and To Do Information versus Clear and Delete Everything? What cable company are you using?
> 
> Scott


The other Tivos were a Series 3 (with the OLED window) and to a Tivo HD.

When I first started having problems with the Roameo last May the first thing I noticed was that certain programs had a different program name and description. That problem was solved with a Clear Program and To Do Information. It solved the wrong names on the programs but didn't do anything for the shows that wouldn't play.

I have Frontier FIOS, formerly Verizon here in California.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

rdrrepair said:


> Your tv set brand... Is it a Sony?


Panasonic. The problem persists even when moving the Tivo to another Panasonic in the house.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> A few others have reported this issue previously--this is not just you.
> 
> I have a hypothesis, that this may be a result of shows from outside the TiVo world being introduced to a TiVo box as a result of a PC-TiVo transfer (and to be included in that, TiVo-to-TiVo transfers where the show being transferred had originated from a PC and from outside the TiVo world).
> 
> ...


I'll take you word for it that others have posted with the same problem. I consistently read most of these Tivo forums including the Tivo Help, Tivo Home and Media, both the Roameo and Bolt forums along with a few others and don't remember seeing any of them. None of them have replied to my posts about the problem.

I think maybe an X-Files event might be the cause, considering that it has been happening with two different Tivos. One of them shortly after the return for refund period had passed. Aliens are sneaking into my home at night to mess with my Tivo. sigh

I may take your advise and start from scratch without transferring any videos from my PC. Unfortunately, that kills one of the Tivo features I really like to use. Even though the problem has surfaced within 6 weeks or so the last couple of times, there's no telling how long it might to reappear.

Thank you for your thoughts. After having been with Tivo for so long I would really hate to have to move to a cable DVR. That'd be like going back to a stick shift, no power steering car. Yuck.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

The question is, under my hypothesis, exactly where in the process is the problem/conflict coming from. My bet is, either the separate metadata file that one can create for a content file being transferred from a PC, or the folder creation aspect of it.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> The question is, under my hypothesis, exactly where in the process is the problem/conflict coming from. My bet is, either the separate metadata file that one can create for a content file being transferred from a PC, or the folder creation aspect of it.


First I'll have to see if the problem reoccurs when only recording shows and not transferring them from the PC. It will take at least 3 months for me to feel that might be the solution if the problem doesn't show up by then. After than I can test uploading with separate metadata files for another 2 months, at least. Lastly I can see if adding folder creation causes problems. Maybe I'll have an answer by New Years.

I will use the other Tivo to stream my DVD videos until then.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bobfrank said:


> When I first started having problems with the Roameo last May the first thing I noticed was that certain programs had a different program name and description. That problem was solved with a Clear Program and To Do Information. It solved the wrong names on the programs but didn't do anything for the shows that wouldn't play.


Were these shows that you had transferred from your PC (and possibly ones that had old metadata from before the Rovi change)? It is sounding similar to what Mike is suggesting. Are you using the latest version of Metagenerator to generate metadata txt files?

Scott


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> First I'll have to see if the problem reoccurs when only recording shows and not transferring them from the PC. It will take at least 3 months for me to feel that might be the solution if the problem doesn't show up by then. After than I can test uploading with separate metadata files for another 2 months, at least. Lastly I can see if adding folder creation causes problems. Maybe I'll have an answer by New Years.
> 
> I will use the other Tivo to stream my DVD videos until then.


I'm still pondering it all. I wish there was a way to test the alternatives out without the long and inconvenient, mind-numbing waits.

And another possible option to throw into the mix: the transfer of shows from PC to TiVo without separate metadata files.

I wonder if it would be possible to run this by a TiVo engineer. Or, to check with TiVo_Ted here?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

HerronScott said:


> Were these shows that you had transferred from your PC (and possibly ones that had old metadata from before the Rovi change)? It is sounding similar to what Mike is suggesting. Are you using the latest version of Metagenerator to generate metadata txt files?
> 
> Scott


No, the incorrect program listing for shows were all for programs recorded on the Tivo. That problem has not reoccured.

I'm using the latest Megagenerator as far as I know. The version I'm using is 3.5.3.0.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I'm still pondering it all. I wish there was a way to test the alternatives out without the long and inconvenient, mind-numbing waits.
> 
> And another possible option to throw into the mix: the transfer of shows from PC to TiVo without separate metadata files.
> 
> I wonder if it would be possible to run this by a TiVo engineer. Or, to check with TiVo_Ted here?


I also wish there was some way to speed up testing the alternatives. I still really doubt that the metadata is the source of the problem, but first I have to test to see if the problem occurs with nothing but plain vanilla recordings.


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## Robtom (Mar 31, 2018)

bobfrank said:


> This is a continuation and reoccurance of a problem I posted about last year. Recap and update:
> 
> Last year the problem with my several year old Roameo started with some recorded programs not being playable. When I pressed play or selected play the screen would just blink and remain as it was. First it was just a come programs on certain channels. Then it became all programs recorded after a certain date. I could copy the programs to my PC and they would play fine. I could copy them to another Tivo and they would play fine. Also, a video uploaded to the Tivo wouldn't play either.
> 
> ...





bobfrank said:


> This is a continuation and reoccurance of a problem I posted about last year. Recap and update:
> 
> Last year the problem with my several year old Roameo started with some recorded programs not being playable. When I pressed play or selected play the screen would just blink and remain as it was. First it was just a come programs on certain channels. Then it became all programs recorded after a certain date. I could copy the programs to my PC and they would play fine. I could copy them to another Tivo and they would play fine. Also, a video uploaded to the Tivo wouldn't play either.
> 
> ...


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## Robtom (Mar 31, 2018)

I have the same problem the difference is I could play record program for 3 sec on my Roamio ota and it stop but it work when I stream on my other device( tablet phone)
Any suggestions!!


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Robtom said:


> I have the same problem the difference is I could play record program for 3 sec on my Roamio ota and it stop but it work when I stream on my other device( tablet phone)
> Any suggestions!!


No new ideas from me. When I have the problem the program doesn't even start to play. So, it's possible your problem is different than mine. The only way I've been able to cure the problem (temporarily) is to do a clear and delete everything, after saving my recordings first of course.

I'm still testing the suggestion that I do not upload anything from my computer to the Tivo. Since the problem takes a while to show up I might not know for a while if this helps.

Have you been uploading any programs from your computer to the Tivo?


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## jsquare (Dec 23, 2002)

Same boat here. I opened a thread just for this issue here: Can't playback any recordings done after May 12
At first believed that only recordings after May 12 were affected but now everything is unplayable. I did transferred some videos a few few months ago via PyTivo but everything worked fine until now.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

@Robtom, Just checking for a pattern I'm suspected:

Have you transferred shows from your PC to your TiVo box? If so, have you done so with associated show metadata files? If so, have you created those metadata files yourself or otherwise amended the data in them?


jsquare said:


> Same boat here. I opened a thread just for this issue here: Can't playback any recordings done after May 12
> At first believed that only recordings after May 12 were affected *but now everything is unplayable*. I did transferred some videos a few few months ago via PyTivo but everything worked fine until now.


And that seems to track what others have found: the problem with some files then infecting everything.


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## jsquare (Dec 23, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> @Robtom, Just checking for a pattern I'm suspected:
> 
> Have you transferred shows from your PC to your TiVo box? If so, have you done so with associated show metadata files? If so, have you created those metadata files yourself or otherwise amended the data in them?
> 
> And that seems to track what others have found: the problem with some files then infecting everything.


Yes, I created custom meta-files for those transferred files in order to place them in folders by series and proper info, but that was over 2 months ago.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

jsquare said:


> Yes, I created custom meta-files for those transferred files in order to place them in folders by series and proper info, but that was over 2 months ago.


OK, then, this is the pattern/hypothesis I'm seeing and thinking:

There seems to be something tied to the transfer of files from a PC to a TiVo box. And more particularly, where there is a separate metadata file tied to the show being transferred. The reason I suspect this additional metadata file "requirement" for the issue is that I think it likely that we would have seen and heard of more problems if this issue was based on a file/show transfer alone (where no metadata file was involved). It is unclear to me if the issue applies where any separate metadata file is involved, or only where the metadata file has been user-amended or created (such as, in your case, to get folder grouping)--I'm wondering if the user-amended/created factor is the determining factor (and then perhaps going to a specific data field), as, again, I'm wondering if we would have heard more about this issue if matters were the presence or absence of a metadata file alone.

My suspicion/hypothesis is that the transfer of these files causes a corruption of the TiVo box's database. The corruption seems to start small, but then ultimately affects all shows on the box, over time. It's almost like an illness spreading through the database.

@bobfrank seems to be most advanced in experimenting with a remedy. (Unfortunately, it seems to need substantial time, many weeks or even into months, to see if a remedy is permanent.) Safest seems to be, clearing the shows off the box with a TiVo Clear and Delete Everything, and starting anew. My guessing is that moving affected shows off the box before the CD&E and then back after may re-infect the box. (IIRC, @bobfrank had that situation on one attempt at a fix.) Likewise, moving shows to the box from a PC again, with associated metadata files, may cause the issue again, if this is a metadata file-related issue (unknown if this only would apply to user-created or amended metadata files). In the absence of further info. as to what specifically is causing the issue, safest would seem to be, if transferring from a PC to the TiVo box, doing so without separate metadata files--unfortunately, that deletes some desired functionality, for example with grouping shows on the TiVo box or for shows/content being transferred where TiVo doesn't have show data or correct data (I have some old, transferred, recorded shows, recorded years ago by my Toshiba Series 2 TiVo box, where my Bolt TiVo box associates them with completely different show data, at random).

There does seem to be a pattern here. I wish that a TiVo engineer could be looped in on this . . . .


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

jsquare said:


> Same boat here. I opened a thread just for this issue here: Can't playback any recordings done after May 12
> At first believed that only recordings after May 12 were affected but now everything is unplayable. I did transferred some videos a few few months ago via PyTivo but everything worked fine until now.


That's the way it started for me. First, only certain programs on certain channels, then everything after a certain date, finally everything on the Tivo no matter when it was recorded.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> That's the way it started for me. First, only certain programs on certain channels, then everything after a certain date, finally everything on the Tivo no matter when it was recorded.





Mikeguy said:


> OK, then, this is the pattern/hypothesis I'm seeing and thinking:
> 
> There seems to be something tied to the transfer of files from a PC to a TiVo box. And more particularly, where there is a separate metadata file tied to the show being transferred. The reason I suspect this additional metadata file "requirement" for the issue is that I think it likely that we would have seen and heard of more problems if this issue was based on a file/show transfer alone (where no metadata file was involved). It is unclear to me if the issue applies where any separate metadata file is involved, or only where the metadata file has been user-amended or created (such as, in your case, to get folder grouping)--I'm wondering if the user-amended/created factor is the determining factor (and then perhaps going to a specific data field), as, again, I'm wondering if we would have heard more about this issue if matters were the presence or absence of a metadata file alone.
> 
> ...


Here's an update on my testing. I uploaded programs to my new Bolt, including some with meta date to go into folders. A little over a month later the problem reoccured. Then I copied everything off my Tivo (a new Bolt) did a clear and delete everything. I copied everything back to my otherwise perfectly find Roameo. Some of the uploads to the Roameo were with meta data to put into folders. The only thing allowed on the Bolt was programs recorded on the Bolt. Another month+ and the Roameo problem started again. The Bolt hasn't started showing any signs yet (where did I leave the wood to knock on?)

I copied everything off the Roameo, did a clear and delete everything and copied the programs back to the Roameo. This time with no added meta data and nothing going into created folders. That experiment has only been going on for a week or two.

It is starting to look like the transfer with meta data is a cause of the problem. Still undetermined whether the folder creation is part of the problem or not.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> Here's an update on my testing. I uploaded programs to my new Bolt, including some with meta date to go into folders. A little over a month later the problem reoccured. Then I copied everything off my Tivo (a new Bolt) did a clear and delete everything. I copied everything back to my otherwise perfectly find Roameo. Some of the uploads to the Roameo were with meta data to put into folders. The only thing allowed on the Bolt was programs recorded on the Bolt. Another month+ and the Roameo problem started again. The Bolt hasn't started showing any signs yet (where did I leave the wood to knock on?)
> 
> I copied everything off the Roameo, did a clear and delete everything and copied the programs back to the Roameo. This time with no added meta data and nothing going into created folders. That experiment has only been going on for a week or two.
> 
> It is starting to look like the transfer with meta data is a cause of the problem. Still undetermined whether the folder creation is part of the problem or not.


And so now, I wonder if there is a benefit to get granular as to users with issues and what they specifically have done, as to the potential, specific cause. Specifically, I've been wondering if the issue is the mere fact of the separate metadata file and/or where it comes from (generated by MetaGenerator; or, from a basic template?); the fact of the editing of the file; and/or specific fields in the metadata file, perhaps as added/edited by users. Perhaps no as to the first 2 possibilities (wouldn't more people have said something?), but could there be something as to the 3rd? Could it (sadly) be user adoption of a TiVo-unknown, misc. number sequence in the metadata file so as to create a folder grouping on the TiVo box, as you note--could that unknown number be causing the TiVo box's database to throw a hissy fit?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> And so now, I wonder if there is a benefit to get granular as to users with issues and what they specifically have done, as to the potential, specific cause. Specifically, I've been wondering if the issue is the mere fact of the separate metadata file and/or where it comes from (generated by MetaGenerator; or, from a basic template?); the fact of the editing of the file; and/or specific fields in the metadata file, perhaps as added/edited by users. Perhaps no as to the first 2 possibilities (wouldn't more people have said something?), but could there be something as to the 3rd? Could it (sadly) be user adoption of a TiVo-unknown, misc. number sequence in the metadata file so as to create a folder grouping on the TiVo box, as you note--could that unknown number be causing the TiVo box's database to throw a hissy fit?


Testing is extremely difficult as it seems to take more than a month for symptoms to start showing up. Even 2 months isn't unusual. Takes a very long time to test different scenarios.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> Testing is extremely difficult as it seems to take more than a month for symptoms to start showing up. Even 2 months isn't unusual. Takes a very long time to test different scenarios.


Absolutely (and you're to be commended for your patience in doing so).


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## Robtom (Mar 31, 2018)

In my case is simply a regular ota record on my roamio 1t do not play back. But when i stream this file with tivo stream on my tablet from my Roamio it's work!!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Robtom said:


> In my case is simply a regular ota record on my roamio 1t do not play back. But when i stream this file with tivo stream on my tablet from my Roamio it's work!!


Is that happening to you routinely with recordings you are making, or is this (hopefully) a one-off situation?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> Absolutely (and you're to be commended for your patience in doing so).


It's more desperation than patience. If I don't find the source of the problem I might be forced to use the cable company DVR (yuck!). I've have had at least one of every Tivo, except a Premiere, starting with the series 1. It would be very painful to leave Tivo.

I would hate to be unable to upload videos to my Tivo. I prefer to copy my DVDs to the Tivo because of the playback control available with Tivo. But that would be better than losing the Tivo for regular TV.

It is looking a little like it's the uploaded programs that are causing the problems, maybe with, maybe without the added meta data and or created folders.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Robtom said:


> In my case is simply a regular ota record on my roamio 1t do not play back. But when i stream this file with tivo stream on my tablet from my Roamio it's work!!


If it's just one program you might just have a corrupted recording. If more and more recordings start showing the problem you might be in the same boat as I am.

Have you been uploading video files from your computer to the Tivo? Have you been using added meta data? Have you been creating folders for your uploaded videos?


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## jsquare (Dec 23, 2002)

bobfrank said:


> It's more desperation than patience. If I don't find the source of the problem I might be forced to use the cable company DVR (yuck!). I've have had at least one of every Tivo, except a Premiere, starting with the series 1. It would be very painful to leave Tivo.
> 
> I would hate to be unable to upload videos to my Tivo. I prefer to copy my DVDs to the Tivo because of the playback control available with Tivo. But that would be better than losing the Tivo for regular TV.
> 
> It is looking a little like it's the uploaded programs that are causing the problems, maybe with, maybe without the added meta data and or created folders.


It's cheaper and better to buy an used Roamio and register with TiVo for a month or so, transfer the recordings to it, reset and deleted everything on the corrupted one, when ready move the recordings back to the original TiVo and cancel service on the backup unit. Luckily I have a working Roamio and a 3TB as backup, I'm doing that process right now, don't know how long it will take but it's the only way to make things right again, forget about TiVo customer service they are a bunch of morons.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

jsquare said:


> It's cheaper and better to buy an used Roamio and register with TiVo for a month or so, transfer the recordings to it, reset and deleted everything on the corrupted one, when ready move the recordings back to the original TiVo and cancel service on the backup unit. Luckily I have a working Roamio and a 3TB as backup, I'm doing that process right now, don't know how long it will take but it's the only way to make things right again, forget about TiVo customer service they are a bunch of morons.


I have a Roamio that was, and is, working just great except for this problem. After trying everything I could and getting some suggestions from the community here I bought a new Bolt and transferred everything to it.

Unfortunately the Bolt started having the same problem, but not until the return period had passed. After doing a clear and delete everything on the Roamio I moved everything back. Then the Roamio started having the problem after 6 weeks or so.

I couldn't buy and return a new Tivo ever couple of months. While I'm doing some testing to try and discover what is triggering the problem, I'm just moving programs to and from my computer. The leading candidate for the trigger right now is uploading programs with added meta data and maybe that coupled with creating folders.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

jsquare said:


> It's cheaper and better to buy an used Roamio and register with TiVo for a month or so, transfer the recordings to it, reset and deleted everything on the corrupted one, when ready move the recordings back to the original TiVo and cancel service on the backup unit. Luckily I have a working Roamio and a 3TB as backup, I'm doing that process right now, don't know how long it will take but it's the only way to make things right again, forget about TiVo customer service they are a bunch of morons.


I would advise caution: it is possible that the issue is with shows originally transferred to the TiVo box from outside (see the above), and so transferring those shows to a different TiVo box could infect that box as well, and then transferring them back to the original box could re-infect that box.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> OK, then, this is the pattern/hypothesis I'm seeing and thinking:
> 
> There seems to be something tied to the transfer of files from a PC to a TiVo box. And more particularly, where there is a separate metadata file tied to the show being transferred... ...I wish that a TiVo engineer could be looped in on this . . . .


Has @dlfl been looped in?

MetaGenerator has been around for years. The first thought I usually have when I see a problem reported is "Hasn't this ever happened before?" And @dlfl might know.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ClearToLand said:


> Has @dlfl been looped in?
> 
> MetaGenerator has been around for years. The first thought I usually have when I see a problem reported is "Hasn't this ever happened before?" And @dlfl might know.


Sorry, but as Sgt. Schulz said: "I know nothing!". (Ironically) I don't do many PC-to-TiVo transfers.


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## ZobVA (Nov 2, 2009)

I just started having this exact same issue with my Tivo Bolt. It only began a month or so after I upgraded the box to Hydra. I strongly suspect it's a Tivo software glitch that has to do with the ads that Tivo has inserted at the beginning of all its recorded shows. Live TV plays fine, but when I try to play certain recorded shows the circle just spins and then... nothing happens. Very frustrating. I've been a Tivo owner and strong advocate of Tivo for more than 16 years and have stuck with it through all sorts of things. But this might be the one thing that finally pushes me to cut the cord. What good is Tivo if I can't watch recorded shows? They need to get this fixed NOW. I'm seeing more and more complaints about the same thing on Reddit and other places on the internet; it's widespread.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Is there no chance that the computers of those with this problem are causing the problem? There are many many folks here who transfer shows back and forth from Tivo to computer and vice versa. If this issue only happens to a select few, might their own equipment be the cause? Why arent we seeing this happen on all boxes that are involved with transfers??


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

ZobVA said:


> I just started having this exact same issue with my Tivo Bolt. It only began a month or so after I upgraded the box to Hydra. I strongly suspect it's a Tivo software glitch that has to do with the ads that Tivo has inserted at the beginning of all its recorded shows. Live TV plays fine, but when I try to play certain recorded shows the circle just spins and then... nothing happens. Very frustrating. I've been a Tivo owner and strong advocate of Tivo for more than 16 years and have stuck with it through all sorts of things. But this might be the one thing that finally pushes me to cut the cord. What good is Tivo if I can't watch recorded shows? They need to get this fixed NOW. I'm seeing more and more complaints about the same thing on Reddit and other places on the internet; it's widespread.


Your problem is totally unrelated to the trouble discussed in this thread. As the OP I can tell you that I don't use Hydra and the problem occurred long before Tivo started wlith the pre-roll ads.

Hopefully someone can help you with a solution. The only suggestion I would have is to upgrade to TE3 and not worry about the pre-roll commercials.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

mattyro7878 said:


> Is there no chance that the computers of those with this problem are causing the problem? There are many many folks here who transfer shows back and forth from Tivo to computer and vice versa. If this issue only happens to a select few, might their own equipment be the cause? Why arent we seeing this happen on all boxes that are involved with transfers??


Anything is possible, but I consider this to be highly unlikely. With the trouble shooting that has been done I, and others, have concluded that the problem is not with transferring video from the PC to the Tivo, but is caused by user created folders.

For most of the past year I have been uploading video to my Tivo with no problems. The difference is I no longer put them into user created folders on the Tivo.

Are you creating your own folders on the Tivo to upload your shows into? If not, this is why you're not having the problems. If you are, I'd like to hear more about how long you've been doing that and your procedure to create those folders.

As mentioned above, I am the OP in this thread.


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## RedMan8 (Sep 30, 2005)

Just a couple days ago - I have started having this same issue on my TiVo Premiere. Like the OP, I have had hard drive failures in the past and this doesn't "feel" like it's the hard drive.
I used to transfer shows back and forth all the time with PyTiVo, but a couple years ago the "push" stopped working so I started using Plex for almost everything. Now I only use the TiVo for live TV and I cut commercials out of the local news with KMTTG and VideoRedo. KMTTG uses the new comskip, so the video file never gets transferred back to the TiVo.
I used to create my own folders on the TiVo, and I'll bet there are still a couple in the list, but again I haven't done that in several years.
I have not hit Clear and Delete Everything yet but I was hoping that would be the solution. After reading this thread I'm worried the problem will just come back.
I'm going to watch this thread for any advice, and I'll post my results after C&DE.


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## RedMan8 (Sep 30, 2005)

C&DE never finished. I let it run for over 6 hours and I also pulled the plug and let it run for ANOTHER 6 hours before I gave up.
So I got a new image file and used DVRBars to restore the drive.
I'm up and running again but it doesn't have all my recording capacity yet. Does anyone have a link to WinMFS I could "borrow"?


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## RedMan8 (Sep 30, 2005)

Got it!
Dvr Backup And Restore Software for Windows (DvrBARS)


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

RedMan8 said:


> Just a couple days ago - I have started having this same issue on my TiVo Premiere. Like the OP, I have had hard drive failures in the past and this doesn't "feel" like it's the hard drive.
> I used to transfer shows back and forth all the time with PyTiVo, but a couple years ago the "push" stopped working so I started using Plex for almost everything. Now I only use the TiVo for live TV and I cut commercials out of the local news with KMTTG and VideoRedo. KMTTG uses the new comskip, so the video file never gets transferred back to the TiVo.
> I used to create my own folders on the TiVo, and I'll bet there are still a couple in the list, but again I haven't done that in several years.
> I have not hit Clear and Delete Everything yet but I was hoping that would be the solution. After reading this thread I'm worried the problem will just come back.
> I'm going to watch this thread for any advice, and I'll post my results after C&DE.


It sounds like your problem was different than mine. Like you I went for years creating folders with no problem. When I started having the problem C&DE solved the problem, but it came back after about 6 to 8 weeks. I don't know if it was creating the folders or just having folders on the drive that caused the problem. Since I've completely quick using self created folders I have not had the problem return even though I continue uploading videos to the Tivo.

I hope the new image you're installing does the job for you. Just don't ever set up user created folders again.


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