# Daredevil: S01E13



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Discussion through episode 13


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I ended up staying up all night and watching the rest of the series. Much better than I expected overall. 

A very satisfying ending, and a pretty cool looking DD costume for next season, should there be one.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Took me 24 hours, but I watched the entire season. Really, really well done. Unequivocal 5-star rating. One of the best superhero costumes I've seen. I even came to accept D'Onofrio's interpretation of a more vulnerable Kingpin than I remember from the comics. (Please note that I haven't actually read Marvel comics since the early 1980s.)

So Crusher Creel was Jack Murdock's last opponent. Comics and TV fans know what happened to him later.

Will there be a Season 2? Or do we get Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, etc., before we see DD again in the Defenders?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm blown away by how good this was. I'd rather watch 13 hours of episodic TV than a 100 ish minute movie if it can be as good as this was. I didn't see anything that looked low budget either. Great cast, fantastic sound and visuals. I think we're seeing the start of the eventual death of typical cinema.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Very, very good. I would've cut it down to 6 or 8 episodes but very well done overall.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Did you notice, as Matt and Karen went into the new office at the end, the red garbage bag ties that formed the Daredevil logo? 

I actually found the costume a bit disappointing. I think he looked better in the black suit; the costume was a little, as Kingpin pointed out, silly.

Vincent D'Onofrio was awesome. After years of him basically slumming on L&O, I'd forgotten how good he can be.

I'm really looking forwards to the next chapters in this mini-saga Marvel is cooking up. Too bad Alias was already taken for a TV show! Alias was one of my favorite comics of all time; AKA Jessica Jones should be great.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I am tired of the leather look or the plastic look for superhero costumes and I was a bit disappointed by it as well.

Kingpin wears the material UNDER his suit, why couldn't Daredevil? In fact, give a spandex look and say the special fabric is under it. Funny thing, the black suit, while off the shelf, looked more like a "real" superhero costume than the final one.

One thing for sure...he could never wear that outfit under his daytime clothes.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Just finished. I need MORE DAREDEVIL!

I really really liked it. I hope there's a season 2.

And how long before Iron Fist?

Also, all those Marvel people in the credits and Wally Wood, who gave us the definitive red suit, not mentioned? That's too bad.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Oh, also, loved the Stilt Man legs in the background of the scene where Matt finally gets the costume. Nice easter egg there.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ereth said:


> And how long before Iron Fist?


A long, long time.

We have Jessica Jones (currently filming) and Luke Cage first. I don't think they've even started casting Iron Fist yet.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I just finished. Overall, I loved it.

I saw the garbage bag and thought it was weird how the shot was framed, but didn't realize the ties made the DD logo - now it makes more sense. Cool!

Did you catch the Stan Lee "cameo"? I thought we might not get one, because tonally it wouldn't really fit. But there was one, sort of, in this episode. I admit I didn't find it on my own - I had to ask Mr. Google:



Spoiler















If you still don't see him:



Spoiler



That's a picture of him on the wall.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Thank goodness for the Daredevil suit. I grew tired of his generic cat burgler look episodes ago.

I'm kind of torn on Fisk/D'Onofrio. I thought Vincent D'Onofrio did a great acting job but a lot of the Fisk scenes were tedious. I thought Wesley was a much more interesting character.

Hopefully, with the new suit and batons Daredevil will get the shiznit beat out of him less often in season 2.

I bet that Karen's murder of Wesley will play a part when Fisk inevitably gets out of jail.

Thank you, Netflix. You're actually earning my monthly subscription money unlike a certain three letter pay station beginning with the letter "H" and ending with an "O".


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

IGN has a pretty good half-hour interview with Steven DeKnight on season 1:


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I enjoyed the season and want more. 
Loved the blond (True Blood) girl's chutzpah.
Kingpin's fiancé got on my nerves
Hope there is a lot more Scott Glenn and Rosario Dawson next season.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I loved the first season. I don't really like the suit; I was expecting something sleeker, I guess. But it is better than the Dread Pirate Roberts outfit he's been wearing.


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Did Karen realize that Matt is Daredevil at the end? It looked like it but I don't remember the Black Mask saying that line about moving on together.


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

I like the suit too. The black mask tied in the back looked stupid.

I couldn't stop watching this series. Netflix did a great job. Everyone was casted very well. The guy who played DD was perfect for the part. Foggy was very likable. The guy who played Kingpin did a good job acting, but I think Kingpin is more confident than how he was portrayed here. But maybe he is still finding himself...

The mysterious woman from China was very interesting to watch. Also, what is her deal. She is not what she appears to be. Her homeland is "a lot farther away" than China?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hairyblue said:


> The mysterious woman from China was very interesting to watch. Also, what is her deal. She is not what she appears to be. Her homeland is "a lot farther away" than China?


She may be back in the Iron Fist series. She seems to come from K'un L'un, a Shangri-La-type place in the Himalayas that exists in a pocket dimension which can only be accessed from Earth once every seven years, where Iron Fist grew up and gained his powers. The symbol on her drugs is the symbol of the Steel Serpent, an Iron Fist villain from K'un L'un.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I too got hooked. Overall excellent. I said it in another thread - great scripts some great performances and the fight scenes were great.

The only thing I guess with binge watching is not having time to absorb everything and all the little details.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I actually found the costume a bit disappointing. I think he looked better in the black suit; the costume was a little, as Kingpin pointed out, silly.
> 
> Vincent D'Onofrio was awesome. After years of him basically slumming on L&O, I'd forgotten how good he can be.


I didn't like the costume either.
He looked sexier just in black.

I still could have done without D'Onofrio. I didn't think he was awesome.
Talk about chewing up the scenery.



hairyblue said:


> The guy who played DD was perfect for the part.


Yeah. Charlie Cox was great. BUT. Pet peeve. Somewhere around episode 5, I went to the imdb and discovered he was yet another British actor import and I guess kudos to him for pulling one over on me...
Really? 
Aren't there *ANY* American actors who can play the leading male roles in these shows?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Finished last night... What a surprisingly good show! I'm not a big Daredevil fan, and didn't have much in the way of expectations going into this series. Too bad it sounds like it's going to be awhile before season 2.


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

Queue said:


> Did Karen realize that Matt is Daredevil at the end? It looked like it but I don't remember the Black Mask saying that line about moving on together.


I was wondering the same thing. But I don't think she knows. Maybe it was just them solidifying their friendship.

I was too lazy to go back and rewatch the episode to be sure though.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hairyblue said:


> I was wondering the same thing. But I don't think she knows. Maybe it was just them solidifying their friendship.
> 
> I was too lazy to go back and rewatch the episode to be sure though.


My thought was what he said to her was exactly what the masked man said to her when he had saved her, and she realized that. But I didn't go back to check.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Loved the show. Casting was spot on too.

I was actually surprised at how good D'Onofio was as I didn't like his character in L&O:CI at all. It was too much "I know a guy" for just about every expertise needed!

Looking forward to more.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It's a shame D'Onofrio is best-known for L&O, because he is an astonishing chameleon of an actor. The first two roles I saw him in were Adventures in Babysitting and Full Metal Jacket, both in 1987. In the former, he plays a mechanic who is so tall, muscular and blond, one of the characters mistakes him for the comic book character Thor. In the latter, he plays a vastly overweight, developmentally-challenged army recruit. That he could make the physical transformation between the two in less than a year is remarkable enough (FMJ was filmed first), but the portrayals of the two characters were so distinct, it's hard to believe it's the same guy.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

This is now my favorite TV show of all time, beating out Highlander (and for those that know me, that's a tall order.) The only quibbles I have are that Matt's hair should have been redder, and a lot of his opponents fought in the same style he did (like the hit man that impaled himself.) I loved the easter eggs: I didn't catch the Steel Serpent logo.

This version was so realistic and gritty, do you think they could do a SHIELD crossover? Or a Constantine crossover?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I think a shield crossover is possible, but I think AoS is finished with this season's production, no? So We'd have to wait for AoS season three or DD season 2, if either get renewed.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I knew nothing of DD going in, other then the Ben Affleck movie from a while back which wasn't very good. I loved the show! I actually really liked how they humanized Fisk. It made him more believable, rather then the typical bad guy where they're just sociopaths who are evil for evil's sake. He had lofty intentions, just misguided methods. Although he devolved into more of a psyco toward the end. I never watched L&O so the last thing I remember D'Onfrio from was that weird movie with Jennifer Lopez. I thought he fit the roll well.

Only thing I thought was weird was Rosario Dawson's role. It seemed to come to an abrupt end after a short introduction. Does that character play a bigger part in the comics? Were they just introducing her for some future storyline?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> nly thing I thought was weird was Rosario Dawson's role. It seemed to come to an abrupt end after a short introduction. Does that character play a bigger part in the comics? Were they just introducing her for some future storyline?


She seems to be a version of the Night Nurse, a character in that neck of the Marvel Comics Universe who takes care of street-level super-heroes. I would not be at all surprised if she shows up in the other shows (it probably doesn't hurt that Rosario Dawson is a life-long comic-book geek...she's even written some).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I thought she was going to be his love interest, but then they kind of shifted toward the end getting Foggy back with his ex and opening up a potential relationship between Matt and Karen. Not sure why the whole Foggy/Karen romance fell off a cliff after the building explosions.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I don't think I should have watched the entire season in 2 days. I was pretty burnt out towards the end and just wanted it to be over. I liked the show overall, but it was just too much at once.

I'm curious, how is Daredevil in the comics? Is he more like the Ben Affleck movie or this TV series? In the movie, his sticks would like shoot out ropes and he'd swing around and such. Is that how he was in the comics? I assume they didn't have the budget for such things for a TV show.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm pretty sure that in the comics the sticks are connected via a rope in the middle. At least a lot of the pictures I've seen online indicate that. I've never actually read a comic, so I don't know for sure.

I watched it over 4-5 days, 2 episodes at a time. While I really enjoyed the show, it didn't captivate me enough to cause 3am binge watching sessions like some other shows have.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Yes, the billy club has always been attached by an extensible cable (and depending upon the artist, that thing can REALLY grow!).

From the Marvel wiki:



> Daredevil has been known to wield a multi-purpose weapon that has many different modes. It's initial form is two billy clubs held together by an extendable cable. It can shift from a nunchaku- like weapon to a manrikigusari (a long rope/chain weapon with two weights on its ends), dual billy clubs which can be wielded in an Eskrima-like fashion, staff, or a cable with a grappling hook. The weapon can also be adjusted to combine both sticks into an Eskrima stick. Most notably, the billy club can be disguised as a blind man's cane, for use by DD's alter ego, Matthew Murdock. The weapon is held by a holster on the side of Daredevil's left leg.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I look forward to season 2. Now that he's actually Daredevil, maybe his weapons and suit will come more into play. Hopefully we see more of the suit maker and he'll build more cool things.

With the suit, I also hope he isn't injured constantly. I get really annoyed when a super hero is injured for long periods of time. I just want to see them at 100%, kicking ass.  I know it adds drama and such to be hurt.

Have they announced a season 2 yet? Netflix tends to announce things pretty early.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

That guy who made the suit, Melvin Potter, is a player in the comics.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Hoffer said:


> With the suit, I also hope he isn't injured constantly. I get really annoyed when a super hero is injured for long periods of time. I just want to see them at 100%, kicking ass.  I know it adds drama and such to be hurt.


What annoys me more is how quickly they heal. In that final fight he got beat on pretty badly and yet he didn't even have a bruise on his face the next day. And that spear thing that got him in the gut should have incapacitated him for months and yet he was flipping around with just a slight wince a few days later.

I know it's a comic so I don't really pay that much attention, but I'd rather them be invincible or wear some sort of armor so that they don't have to deal with the injury aspect at all.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> What annoys me more is how quickly they heal. In that final fight he got beat on pretty badly and yet he didn't even have a bruise on his face the next day. And that spear thing that got him in the gut should have incapacitated him for months and yet he was flipping around with just a slight wince a few days later. I know it's a comic so I don't really pay that much attention, but I'd rather them be invincible or wear some sort of armor so that they don't have to deal with the injury aspect at all.


Wasn't there a line by Stick that said that the meditation helps healing?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Matt also said it.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

In addition to the other injuries, he should have broken every bone in both hands about 147 times during the 13 episodes.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Wasn't there a line by Stick that said that the meditation helps healing?





classicX said:


> Matt also said it.


Yeah, I remember it being mentioned more than once that he heals fast due to meditation.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Well that's just new age nonsense.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> Well that's just new age nonsense.


No, it works, but only if you were blinded by some special chemicals as a young boy.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

BrettStah said:


> No, it works, but only if you were blinded by some special chemicals as a young boy.


We are going to need some empirical evidence to test that. Time to set up a double blind study...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Well that's just new age nonsense.


Just a comic book.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> We are going to need some empirical evidence to test that. Time to set up a double blind study...


I don't know if I should boo or give you a standing ovation.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

And it's official... Marvel.com reports that Netflix has ordered a Season 2 of Daredevil for 2016!

http://marvel.com/news/tv/24478/netflix_orders_a_second_season_of_marvels_daredevil


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Ereth said:


> And it's official... Marvel.com reports that Netflix has ordered a Season 2 of Daredevil for 2016!
> 
> http://marvel.com/news/tv/24478/netflix_orders_a_second_season_of_marvels_daredevil


HOORAY!

Netflix -- it's the anti-FOX.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Good news!


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Ereth said:


> And it's official... Marvel.com reports that Netflix has ordered a Season 2 of Daredevil for 2016!
> 
> http://marvel.com/news/tv/24478/netflix_orders_a_second_season_of_marvels_daredevil


Also, the show runner for season 1 is leaving the show to film a movie. The 2 head writers, or something, for season 1 will be season 2 show runners.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The whole musical showrunners thing bothers me less with Marvel than with regular shows, since Marvel exercises such tight control over their properties anyway. Which is to say, on a Marvel project the showrunner (or, in the case of the movies, director) is less in charge than usual, and his departure will have less of an impact.


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## FilmCritic3000 (Oct 29, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The whole musical showrunners thing bothers me less with Marvel than with regular shows, since Marvel exercises such tight control over their properties anyway. Which is to say, on a Marvel project the showrunner (or, in the case of the movies, director) is less in charge than usual, and his departure will have less of an impact.


New showrunner/head writer Doug Petrie is already a writer and co-producer on the series; he and showrunner Steven S. DeKnight even wrote ep 12 together.

And they're both former _Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ writers. DeKnight also wrote for _Angel_ and created _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_. So both have good pedigrees and DeKnight is leaving the series in good hands.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sure, but my point was that it would have been in good hands (i.e., Feige, Loeb, Whedon, et al.) regardless of who ended up being the showrunner.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

WooHoo... Man with all the original programming Netflix is adding I'm surprised their prices haven't gone up yet. Well worth the $8/mo I pay.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

I have a feeling I'm gonna be rereading Born Again soon


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Ereth said:


> Oh, also, loved the Stilt Man legs in the background of the scene where Matt finally gets the costume. Nice easter egg there.


Not to mention Melvin throwing a circular saw blade, and the plans on the table for some other saw blade-based doodad. 

I can't recall, is Melvin's "Betsy" in the comics?


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

Just finished watching last night (did one or 2 a night). Signed back up with Netflix just for this series and it was worth it. Great casting and acting and they did a good job laying down the history. I also liked the "feel" of the show. Some people were complaining that the lighting was too dark, but I really liked it.

I'm not a fan of the new suit. Too Batman like. Needs to be sleeker and more red.

Glad to see season 2 is a go, but I hate the long delay shows have now.

John


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I really disliked the black mask suit and thought they waited too long to reveal the red costume. They should have had that reveal in episode 10 or 11 and built up the legend from there. Looking forward to seeing it in action more in season 2.

They took out the billy club swinging from building to building because it's incredibly unrealistic.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> I really disliked the black mask suit and thought they waited too long to reveal the red costume. They should have had that reveal in episode 10 or 11 and built up the legend from there. Looking forward to seeing it in action more in season 2.


I think they waited way too long for the red suit too. I noticed the episode 13 title being "Daredevil" very early on. I immediately wondered if the red suit wouldn't appear until the last episode. I was disappointed to find that to be true.



> They took out the billy club swinging from building to building because it's incredibly unrealistic.


A kid getting sprayed in the eyes, which blinds him and gives him super human senses is realistic?


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Hoffer said:


> A kid getting sprayed in the eyes, which blinds him and gives him super human senses is realistic?


Caving into once conceit does not give them license to cave into all conceits. Marvel movies work because they are slightly more grounded in reality than the comic book movies that have preceded them. You can't destroy all suspension of disbelief in live action entertainment or it becomes Batman and Robin.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> Marvel movies work because they are slightly more grounded in reality than the comic book movies that have preceded them. You can't destroy all suspension of disbelief in live action entertainment or it becomes Batman and Robin.


Remind me, what was it that caused all that damage to NYC that was being repaired in this Daredevil series?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> Remind me, what was it that caused all that damage to NYC that was being repaired in this Daredevil series?


The alien invasion in the Avengers movie.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Show was so, so good. Makes Gotham and Flash look like garbage in comparison. Wish all supes shows could be done with the same care and attention.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Hoffer said:


> I think they waited way too long for the red suit too. I noticed the episode 13 title being "Daredevil" very early on. I immediately wondered if the red suit wouldn't appear until the last episode. I was disappointed to find that to be true.


I knew that the final episode was going to be the reveal of the suit. And lliked that they did it that way. Also knew King Pin's tailor was the one that was going to make it for him.

Looking forward to DD S2!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Odds Bodkins said:


> Show was so, so good. Makes Gotham and Flash look like garbage in comparison. Wish all supes shows could be done with the same care and attention.


Daredevil and The Flash are just two different sides of the comics TV coin to me, and I like both a lot. But I like the light-heartedness of The Flash more than the darkness of Dardevil.

I stopped watching Gotham around episode 8 or so. It wasn't even a conscious decision. I just never feel like watching it.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

I think not being interrupted by commercials makes a big difference to just about any show.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

jth tv said:


> I think not being interrupted by commercials makes a big difference to just about any show.


Agreed, also the fact that it was developed directly for Netflix means they didn't have to edit in the obvious commercial breaks every 6-9 minutes, making it feel more like a long movie rather than a TV show.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

classicX said:


> Agreed, also the fact that it was developed directly for Netflix means they didn't have to edit in the obvious commercial breaks every 6-9 minutes, making it feel more like a long movie rather than a TV show.


The storytelling also benefits from them all being dumped at once. There isn't the pressure to introduce everything and hook people in the first couple of episodes. People don't have a week between installments to forget about it.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

And it also benefits from them getting to create the whole season in one plan without having to do a pilot and retool. You get a consistent vision but you also get the kind of storytelling they can only do if they're sure they have the time to do a story, and they know how long they have to tell it before they start. I keep wondering what Babylon 5 might have been like if JMS had been creating it in the time of streaming services, and with the budget a Netflix could have given him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'm not sure Daredevil had more of a budget (in adjusted dollars) than B5. The difference is, B5 was at the cutting edge of what was possible at the time without a big budget, and Daredevil today is the kind of show that is probably pretty easy to look great for relatively cheap. That is, the technology has developed to the point where a less ambitious show today can look sensational, which wouldn't have been possible in B5's day, much less a show as visually ambitious as B5.

But B5 being done today, yeah, that would be pretty spectacular. TV commercials today blow B5 away visually!


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## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

jth tv said:


> I think not being interrupted by commercials makes a big difference to just about any show.


I also noticed that the runtimes vary a bit. It would seem beneficial to not have to cut or pad to hit a more exact runtime that I think a network show requires.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That's one thing I like about the non-Big 5 networks (FX, AMC, etc.)...they're willing to let their shows run long if they have to. (I assume if they run a little short, the network is happy to fill the extra time with more commercials or promos!)


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Really enjoyed it. Questions for y'all?

1. Who made his weapon? The dude who made the suit? Did they discuss that?

2. What did Foggy's ex do to help? Was the first we knew about that when she smiled in her car or did I miss earlier stuff?

3. When Fisk and DD talk about saving their city, do they just mean from crime and poverty and such? Or is there a more defineable threat?

4. Does Fisk know blondie visited his mom?


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

uncdrew said:


> Really enjoyed it. Questions for y'all?
> 
> 1. Who made his weapon? The dude who made the suit? Did they discuss that?
> 
> ...


1. Not discussed, but I assumed he did from the visit and I'd guess he'll be in season 2 and beyond to be DD's Q

2. She was a lawyer at the big law firm that represented Fisk. She was Foggy's GF in law school and then he shagged her and ended up getting lots of information from the firm via her copy and stealing skillz

3. Fisk wants to rebuild HK after he tears it down - DD wants to protect the citizens from gangsters and bad guys like Fisk. Fisk finally realizes he's actually a bad guy in the truck near the end of the 13

4. No.

Just finished the series tonight - watched the final 3 in a row - what a great series, had some lulls as all shows do, but overall an extremely well done, tight scripting, great cast, and just incredible fight sequences. Bravo Netflix!!


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not sure Daredevil had more of a budget (in adjusted dollars) than B5.


Maybe not, but I wonder if Netflix wouldn't be willing to give more for something like B5 if it were a new thing now. But the long-term commitment and the freedom to create an entire season at once and stream it are the differences whose effect would be larger, I think.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dawson Returning For More "Daredevil," Additional Marvel/Netflix Series


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Finally finished last night, after watching 10-12 on Thursday. I loved this one. I thought D'Onofrio was great, in a "learning to be Kingpin" way. By this episode I thought he really had grown into it. They gave him a lot of shots that allowed him to look much larger, and his crazyness was coming out nicely.

Count me in the "disappointed in the suit" club. First, by building it up for the final episode they made it a really big deal; in a way it almost seemed like the culmination of the entire 13 episodes and that's a lot of pressure to put on a costume.

Second, as has already been mentioned it was far too bulky. There's no way, for example, he could wear that under street clothes. I expect they'll just completely ignore the whole "have to go change" thing but it's disappointing. The worst part to me is the mask is so confining; as with the newer Batman costumes he can't even turn his head: in various shots at the end you see him rotating his shoulders and upper torso because he can't turn his head. Especially for DD such a confining costume is totally out of character.

On the other hand as others have said, it will be nice to not have him incapacitated every other episode or so.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> That guy who made the suit, Melvin Potter, is a player in the comics.


Melvin is a tad obscure, IMO.
Now Abner Jenkins, he's a player.

At Ben's funeral, were two of the pallbearers essentially stand ins for J. Jonah and Robbie?

I finished this today and I liked it quite a lot.

I kind of like the drawn out origin as there isn't really a handbook on how to become a superhero here.
I liked Matt figuring out exactly what type of hero he wanted to be.

We also get what's the evolution of Wilson Fisk into the Kingpin and that he didn't go down easily, especially in the last fight with Daredevil.

Still liking Elden Henson and Deborah Ann Woll as well.

Not sure how this would crossover with other Marvel properties yet, but I wonder if they could work out an appearance by Hunter and/or Bobbi Morse.

I look forward to Season 2.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Melvin is a tad obscure, IMO.


In Marvel Universe perhaps, but he's significant in Daredevil.


> Now Abner Jenkins, he's a player.


Where was he in the series?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Drewster said:


> In Marvel Universe perhaps, but he's significant in Daredevil.
> 
> Where was he in the series?


He wasn't but I'd like to see him.

As long as they don't use Peter Petruski though, I think we're ok.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Finally had a chance to finish the series. Went through the last 3 in a row tonight. 

Overall it was really well done. Good cast, writing, production etc... 

As one who hasn't read DD since the late 70's (pretty much when I stopped reading most comics) I found it pretty true to the characters I remember. I loved D'Nofrio's take on Kingpin. They made him out to be more humane, and not as one dimensional as a lot of comic book villains. I also liked how they represented Fisk's raw strength. I seem to recall him beating the crap out of folks in the comics, and that followed nicely here. 

The red suit, I am not real keen on it, it seemed to be too much like Batman's to me. I didn't like the black on it, though the explanation made sense. 

One thing I kind of missed, was a good representation of Matt's "Radar Vision", say what you will about Affleck's movie, but I think that got the vision pretty close to how I remember it from the comics. 

It's going to be a long wait for season 2.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I actually found the costume a bit disappointing. I think he looked better in the black suit; the costume was a little, as Kingpin pointed out, silly.


Like Batman, DD's suit is intended to strike fear in his opponents while also concealing his identity and protecting him in combat. Unlike Spiderman whose suit is intended solely to conceal his identity and to be friendly.

It's new territory for Marvel having a live action character in a costume and I like the way they handled it. I hope they do as well with SM.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Like Batman, DD's suit is intended to strike fear in his opponents while also concealing his identity and protecting him in combat. Unlike Spiderman whose suit is intended solely to conceal his identity and to be friendly.
> 
> It's new territory for Marvel having a live action character in a costume and I like the way they handled it. I hope they do as well with SM.


DD's costume in the comics since about the fifth issue was bright red. That doesn't exactly strike fear.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> It's new territory for Marvel having a live action character in a costume and I like the way they handled it.


Seriously? You do realize they've been doing movies for almost a decade now, right?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Seriously? You do realize they've been doing movies for almost a decade now, right?


Not to mention the Hulk TV series in 1978.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Not to mention the Hulk TV series in 1978.


To be fair, he didn't have much of a costume...

Plus that wasn't Marvel. Marvel only started making movies in 2008 (Iron Man I).


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Seriously? You do realize they've been doing movies for almost a decade now, right?


None of the heroes in the MCU have worn "costumes" until Daredevil. Captain America wears a uniform designed for him. Everyone else wears either specialized gear or their normal clothing, not costumes.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> DD's costume in the comics since about the fifth issue was bright red. That doesn't exactly strike fear.


Depends on your perspective. He's a devil, red, scary, and operates at night.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> None of the heroes in the MCU have worn "costumes" until Daredevil. Captain America wears a uniform designed for him. Everyone else wears either specialized gear or their normal clothing, not costumes.


Dude, they're all costumes.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Craigbob said:


> One thing I kind of missed, was a good representation of Matt's "Radar Vision", say what you will about Affleck's movie, but I think that got the vision pretty close to how I remember it from the comics.


I think the effect from the movie was great, but probably still too expensive to do on this show. I also think they wanted to differentiate it from the movie, focusing on how he has more than just radar (he uses all of his heightened senses).


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

classicX said:


> I think the effect from the movie was great, but probably still too expensive to do on this show. I also think they wanted to differentiate it from the movie, focusing on how he has more than just radar (he uses all of his heightened senses).


There was one review my brother showed me (no, I don't remember where, sorry) that I skimmed a bit before I had finished the series, and the blogger was screaming about not seeing Matt's radar vision except for the one small snippet when he was explaining it to Claire.

I'd argue that we saw it in every episode, in the opening title sequence.


Of course, I couldn't take him seriously when one of the first things he stated was how he was fast forwarding through Foggy's scenes because he hated Elden Henson and his portrayal so much.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rolling Stone: How Vincent D'Onofrio Became the Best New Villain on TV.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Graymalkin said:


> HOORAY!
> 
> Netflix -- it's the anti-FOX.


Seems even more fitting now that they've renewed Arrested Development.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Just finished the last episode. Liked it very much.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Did you notice, as Matt and Karen went into the new office at the end, the red garbage bag ties that formed the Daredevil logo?


I just took a screenshot - not buying it:












Cainebj said:


> Yeah. Charlie Cox was great. BUT. Pet peeve. Somewhere around episode 5, I went to the imdb and discovered he was yet another British actor import and I guess kudos to him for pulling one over on me...
> Really?
> Aren't there *ANY* American actors who can play the leading male roles in these shows?


Maybe he was just the right guy for the part, whatever his pedigree.



madscientist said:


> The worst part to me is the mask is so confining; as with the newer Batman costumes he can't even turn his head: in various shots at the end you see him rotating his shoulders and upper torso because he can't turn his head. Especially for DD such a confining costume is totally out of character.


I've said the same thing (often here) for every modern incarnation of Batman in the movies. From Keaton to Bale, that cowl is always inches thicker and much more rigid than in the comics. I can't for the life of me figure out why Batman's head has to be so fat in every new movie that comes out.



Queue said:


> Did Karen realize that Matt is Daredevil at the end? It looked like it but I don't remember the Black Mask saying that line about moving on together.


I wondered the same, and went back to the first episode when he saved her from the guy with the knife. There was no discussion in the apartment, just fighting. Then Matt and knife-guy both crash out through the window, landing in the alley outside in the rain. Matt kicks his butt, then Karen is there. She tells him he can't give the info she snagged to the police. There's no line similar to the lines spoken between them in the final episode, and there was no reaching for her hand. So I'm not sure what that look on her face really meant.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> I'd rather watch 13 hours of episodic TV than a 100 ish minute movie if it can be as good as this was.


^This^

And however many hours are needed.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Rosario Dawson Teases Daredevil Season 2, Potential Marvel Crossovers And The Punisher
Jun 17, 2015


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> DD's costume in the comics since about the fifth issue was bright red. That doesn't exactly strike fear.


Bursting into flames as you're putting the hurt on an opponent would strike fear. Daredevil needs to hookup with the Mockingjay and repurpose that flaming dress.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> Bursting into flames as you're putting the hurt on an opponent would strike fear. Daredevil needs to hookup with the Mockingjay and repurpose that flaming dress.


I'm not sure that flaming dress is Matt's color...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> What annoys me more is how quickly they heal. In that final fight he got beat on pretty badly and yet he didn't even have a bruise on his face the next day. And that spear thing that got him in the gut should have incapacitated him for months and yet he was flipping around with just a slight wince a few days later.
> 
> I know it's a comic so I don't really pay that much attention, but I'd rather them be invincible or wear some sort of armor so that they don't have to deal with the injury aspect at all.


Not to mention suspension of disbelief requires suppressing any knowledge of the ongoing controversy surrounding head trauma in football. Almost all these guys would be headed for a CTE diagnosis.

Hand-to-hand combat aside, I'd think there would be a special training course for the villains of the underworld to teach them to aim for the face when shooting at these g.d. spandexed vigilantes whose get-ups always seem to leave their heads exposed.


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