# MRV now streams?



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Did I miss the announcement? I just went to transfer a show from one Tivo box to another and it STREAMS. There no longer seems to be an option to transfer (copy).

Has anyone experienced this? I did a search and found nothing.

I know many of you have wanted this for a long time but this is quite a disappointment for me. One of my Tivo's is far away from the router and gets a weak signal. I was not able to watch the show. It kept breaking up. I will now need to reconfigure my wireless setup.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

What does the menu look like and say?

I just checked on mine and it still says Transfer this recording.

This is on Premiere to Premiere and on Premiere to HD.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

aadam101, are you sure that the show in question is one that you otherwise would've been able to transfer? The big advantage of streaming should be that it allows watching shows that would be prohibited for transfer by the CCI flag. So I'd expect some shows to only be streamable, and others to be both streamable and transferable.

I only have one Premiere, so I don't expect to see this anytime soon. Fortunately I'm on Fios, where everything is CCI = 0x00.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

The show is Nurse Jackie. The menu hasn't changed. When I transfer it, the show starts playing and the entire buffer is already full and the video is definitely streaming. I'm able to FF to any point immediately. It stutters and is unwatchale for me.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I just went back and tried to stream again and it didn't work. Everything is now transferring as it always had. I have no explanation.


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2008)

Perhaps you were accidentally added to a testing program, then removed?


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

What model of Tivo were you transferring to/from?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

TerpBE said:


> What model of Tivo were you transferring to/from?


Two Premieres. Maybe it was some sort of test. I would think that would require an update but who the hell knows with Tivo these days. It's not like they communicate anything. I can't believe this only happened to me. It was definitely streaming. I've had a Tivo for 11 years. This was something I have never seen before.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yes, it has been widely covered that TiVo is testing out streaming to/from Premieres and this will be useful for shows whose CCI byte don't allow for MRV transferring.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2011-03/whats-next-for-tivo-hulu-streaming-extenders/

How you got a fleeing glimpse of this, I dunno.

And this streaming capability will be most evident in the new Premiere Q and (especially) the Preview "extender" boxes we heard about this week.

As far as I know this new capability will not REPLACE transferring. As well it should not, for obvious reasons. With TiVo these days, as you say though, who knows.

Keep a digital camera handy so the next time you see this UI, you can post about it here.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Just wanted to give this a bump for those of you who don't read the Premiere forum.

I have been able to get streaming to work. When you are at the screen that says "Transfer this recording" don't press select. Press the PLAY button and the video will stream. 

Please some else confirm this so I know I am not crazy!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aadam101 said:


> Just wanted to give this a bump for those of you who don't read the Premiere forum.
> 
> I have been able to get streaming to work. When you are at the screen that says "Transfer this recording" don't press select. Press the PLAY button and the video will stream.
> 
> Please some else confirm this so I know I am not crazy!


I am testing now and it appears to be working lol.

I made sure the program was not available on my local TiVo in case it was somehow defaulting to that. I hit play and was able to play as if I was watching live. I need to double check and see what is happening at the same time on the other TiVo.

I wonder if this is in error lol. Good Catch though.

Also verified it works on copy once content since I had a show I had transferred to the TiVo that had the red slash and didn't give me the option to transfer. Also I get the message Multiroom Viewing is not available if I try to play back a show this way from my TiVo HD on my Premiere.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

innocentfreak said:


> I wonder if this is in error lol. Good Catch though.


I'm guessing it's an oversight. They probably have streaming in this version of the OS and are waiting on an HDUI update to enable it.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I would agree but I thought it would be the same way with remote deletion but they ended up just updating the SD page with delete. I could see them doing the same here. 

Of course someone may have forgotten to throw the switch to turn it off.

One other possible solution is they don't announce it so people can test it without complaining it doesn't work since technically it is a hidden option.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> One other possible solution is they don't announce it so people can test it without complaining it doesn't work since technically it is a hidden option.


lol. I wouldn't be surprised if that there was their half baked plan.

I feel a lot better now. I really thought I was going crazy since I couldn't make it happen a second time.

Thanks to Darock159- reading your post made me realize what I was doing wrong.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Here it works flawlessly and as if you were on the actual TiVo which is very impressive. I figured there might be some streaming hiccups, but I haven't tried it during heavy network traffic or when someone is playing back a recording on the TiVo I am streaming from.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Well, for about 16 minutes I was incredibly impressed. I was streaming a program that was CCI restricted and it was playing just like it had been transferred even when skipping the commercials. At 16 minutes in to the program the image on the screen froze. The host Premiere was fine as was the network. Went back to the Premiere I was streaming to and that image was still there. Went to play a program that was recorded on the Premiere with the frozen image and instead of playing that program it brought me back to the frozen streaming image. From that point on the Premiere was completely frozen. It wouldn't respond to any input although the amber indicator did light up indicating it was getting the remote control input (just like the SDUI remote freeze problem). Tried the HDUI reset code, waited another 15 minutes and finally rebooted it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

aadam101 said:


> Thanks to Darock159- reading your post made me realize what I was doing wrong.


What were you doing wrong? Darock159 hasn't posted in this thread.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Fofer said:


> What were you doing wrong? Darock159 hasn't posted in this thread.


I wasn't hitting the PLAY button. The first time I did it was a complete accident. I didn't really know what I did.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

rahnbo said:


> At 16 minutes in to the program the image on the screen froze. . . From that point on the Premiere was completely frozen.


In fairness and for the time being I'm not exactly going to blame Tivo for this. I noticed after the reboot that many channels were signal unavailable. It's normal for that to happen until all the mappings are done but not more than 30 minutes. After a long hold on the phone with Brighthouse they told me they're doing system maintenance until 6am. Thus, the streaming problem/freeze may have nothing to do with Tivo although it probably caused it to freeze up which I would think Tivo could handle but apparently not. Will try again when BH gets their stuff working again. It was an awesome 16 minutes of streaming though!


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

Thanks for finding this. As a sufferer in the TWC "protect everything we can" zone, this feature alone makes my four-Premiere investment worthwhile.

I did notice that it does not continue streaming in the small video window, but that's fine with me.

I tried to stream from my S3. When I pressed play, I got the please wait message, then an error screen "Can't connect to DVR". It says Multi-Room Viewing is not available due to network problem. I suspect the S3 doesn't have the code for streaming. It was worth a try.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lafos said:


> I tried to stream from my S3. When I pressed play, I got the please wait message, then an error screen "Can't connect to DVR". It says Multi-Room Viewing is not available due to network problem. I suspect the S3 doesn't have the code for streaming. It was worth a try.


Got the same result when I tried to stream from my HD to my Premiere. Looks like it is Premiere to Premiere only, at least for now.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

I got the a lockup less than 20 minutes in. Has anyone watched a full show? The screen locked and didn't get remote response. The tivo did respond to the tivo ipad app, but the screen stayed frozen. After a few minutes, it rebooted.


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## thebfg (Aug 1, 2004)

lafos said:


> I got the a lockup less than 20 minutes in. ... After a few minutes, it rebooted.


Same thing happened to me 18 minutes in. TiVo locked up. Rebooted on its own after a bit. Trying it again with a different show...

Yay... another freeze and reboot...


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## tomm1079 (May 10, 2005)

i have 2 tivo hd's and 1 Premiere. 

I just tried from the HD to Premiere and it says network is unavailable (even though it will MRV).


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Is this real streaming? Can you instantly skip to the end of the recording and to any point in it without waiting for it to download?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mikeyts said:


> Is this real streaming? Can you instantly skip to the end of the recording and to any point in it without waiting for it to download?


I was able to when I tried last night.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I hope TiVo is able to work the bugs out of this. I hope the new TiVo "Preview" comes out, for sale at retail, and works swimmingly with it... and is reasonably priced.

The chances of all of the above happening, I fear, are slim to none.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Well no matter what it is still very dependent on the network the premiere is connected to. I have not been able to test out streaming myself since the only protected content I have is from Amazon VOD and it will not let me stream it.
But on a normal transfer from Premiere to Premiere I get 85mb/s to 95mb/s transfer rates so I would expect not to have any issues streaming. At least not related no my network since I have more than enough bandwidth with my gigabit backbone.


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## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

You can even stream a show that is recording. Too bad it isn't ready yet, after watching a few shows I got the hang described earlier.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

rahnbo said:


> Well, for about 16 minutes I was incredibly impressed. I was streaming a program that was CCI restricted and it was playing just like it had been transferred even when skipping the commercials. At 16 minutes in to the program the image on the screen froze. From that point on the Premiere was completely frozen.


To reinforce what others are saying and reaffirm my original observation I still get total lockups of most shows during streaming. I've tried about 10 now and I only got through one which was only a 30 minute program. The Premiere either totally locks up and requires a reboot or simply reboots itself.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> To reinforce what others are saying and reaffirm my original observation I still get total lockups of most shows during streaming. I've tried about 10 now and I only got through one which was only a 30 minute program. The Premiere either totally locks up and requires a reboot or simply reboots itself.


Was the box doing anything else? I've already had my boxes dealing with six streams with no issues other than the Amazon VOD download slowing to only 3mb/s. So it seems like it should be more than capable. Maybe just a little tweaking and they will be able to fix it. 
I'm unable to test it out since nothing is restricted on FiOS and it won't stream my restricted Amazon downloads.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I'm unable to test it out since nothing is restricted on FiOS and it won't stream my restricted Amazon downloads.


It works on any recording. Just hit play on the transfer screen.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

For those having problems I'm curious.... are your TiVos connected via Ethernet or WiFi? If WiFi are you using N or G adapters?

Dan


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## Mike Pfeifer (Mar 17, 2011)

Really can't complain about it not working properly since it's technically not supposed to be there anyway...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Can we complain about it showing up then, when it's half-baked and clearly not ready for prime time? It's not like we've enabled it by entering some secret backdoor code. It's enabled by pressing "play."


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Tried it on my TiVoHD, streaming from a Premiere. Looked like it was going to work for a second - the HD said "please wait" and the blue light flashed on and off. Then it said it had been added to the transfer queue (which it hadn't). 
If you press play on the transfer screen on the HD, for a non-protected recording, it begins a normal transfer.
I then noticed that the copy protection flags from the Premiere look a little wonky (one show from an HBO channel isn't protected, yet one basic cable (OWN) program is, neither of these were shows I was trying to transfer). Not sure what's up there but I'll investigate.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> It works on any recording. Just hit play on the transfer screen.


It hasn't worked on any of my boxes. You get the lower pitched bong sound when you hit play.

I'll try it again tonight, maybe I was on the wrong screen or something


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> For those having problems I'm curious.... are your TiVos connected via Ethernet or WiFi? If WiFi are you using N or G adapters?
> 
> Dan


My wife tried it this morning and said that it froze up on her about 20 minutes into an hour long show.

She was streaming from premiere to premiere. Both our Tivos are connected via 100Mbps wired network.

Jeff


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Can we complain about it showing up then, when it's half-baked and clearly not ready for prime time? It's not like we've enabled it by entering some secret backdoor code. It's enabled by pressing "play."


What I would like to see is someone from Tivo chime in and assure us that this feature will be officially released in some future release.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> What I would like to see is someone from Tivo chime in and assure us that this feature will be officially released in some future release.


You would like that, wouldn't you .

It would be a public announcement of the feature, pretty much binding them to delivering it. They may not be entirely sure they want to do it yet, and even if they do want to do it, there'd no doubt be an uproar in these forums when it didn't show up within what people here figure is a reasonable time.

To my mind it's best not to ever pre-announce anything unless there's some huge marketing motive, and better not to announce until you can announce a firm date for release.


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## Johnwashere (Sep 17, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> I then noticed that the copy protection flags from the Premiere look a little wonky (one show from an HBO channel isn't protected, yet one basic cable (OWN) program is, neither of these were shows I was trying to transfer). Not sure what's up there but I'll investigate.


I have noticed for at least the last week HBO 1 HD is unprotected for me. I didnt record true blood on my main premiere, so it was really nice to be able to pull it down from my bedroom HD.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> What I would like to see is someone from Tivo chime in and assure us that this feature will be officially released in some future release.


I recently took one of those monthly TiVo polls where they were gauging interest in having this capability. But they didn't mention that it would be only Premiere to Premiere.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> I recently took one of those monthly TiVo polls where they were gauging interest in having this capability. But they didn't mention that it would be only Premiere to Premiere.


I would say at this point assume they are talking about their current platform.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> It hasn't worked on any of my boxes. You get the lower pitched bong sound when you hit play.
> 
> I'll try it again tonight, maybe I was on the wrong screen or something


I tried it again and now it works. I did the same thing as before only now I don't get the low pitched bong sounds.

So far it seems to work great. I can't even tell that it's streaming. It seems to look and behave the same as when viewing it from the local hard drive. Whether using 30 second scan for a 10 minute scan or the three FF/REW speeds or jumping ahead to one of the 15 minute marks. I see no difference between the streaming and watching locally.

So far I've only been testing it with nothing recording. I'll need to check it out while it's also recording two things and downloading something from Amazon VOD.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

:up: This is still working great. I'm recording two HD programs and downloading an HD program from AMAzon VOD. While that is going on I can still stream an HD title, doing the 30 sec scan, and FF/REW just like normal as well as skipping to the 15 minute marks. Although it does seem like it might be skipping a few more frames that normal during the 30 second scan. Not sure though it could be my imagination.

So far it seems to be working great. I'll need to watch an entire show by streaming and see how that goes.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Hmmm... If they get this working on S3 units then I may need to reconsider how I have my system wired. Right now I'm using an elaborate system of matrix switches, wireless HDMI senders and IR blasters to be able to watch all my TiVos in another room. It works, but it's a bit complicated and a bit flaky due to HDCP. If I can get one of those Premiere player units and stream shows from all my TiVos to the other room in realtime I might have to seriously reconsider my setup.

Dan


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

My gut tells me this streaming capability will be for Premiere (and eventually, the new "Preview") units only. I'd love to be surprised and wrong. We'll see.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> Was the box doing anything else? I've already had my boxes dealing with six streams with no issues other than the Amazon VOD download slowing to only 3mb/s. So it seems like it should be more than capable. Maybe just a little tweaking and they will be able to fix it.
> I'm unable to test it out since nothing is restricted on FiOS and it won't stream my restricted Amazon downloads.


You're very lucky! I posted a picture in another forum showing that with Brighthouse almost everything I record in HD except local programming is restricted. The boxes were doing relatively nothing other than whatever they do in the background. Gigabit wired. No other transfers or recordings, only attempting to stream restricted shows. They stream wonderfully until they totally freeze and reboot. So long as this is occurring streaming is a great concept. . .not ready for prime time.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Fofer said:


> My gut tells me this streaming capability will be for Premiere (and eventually, the new "Preview") units only. I'd love to be surprised and wrong. We'll see.


Probably. Unfortunately the Premiere units still have a few significant problems that prevent me from even considering an upgrade from the S3. Maybe some day when they work out all the bugs I'll consider that, but for now if they don't add support for S3 streaming then I'll have to stick to my HDMI sender/matrix switch combo.

Dan


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

What significant problems are you referring to? FWIW, I "upgraded" from an S3 to a Premiere earlier this year. I haven't encountered any showstoppers, but then again, I am using the SD UI. It certainly feels a lot faster than the S3 it replaced. Feels weird not to be using the HD UI, but we both know why I made that choice. For now I will say I am glad to have the iPad app compatibility...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

OK maybe "significant" is relative, but the main issues for me...

1) The tuner isn't as good and has trouble with some channels that work fine on an S3 connected to the exact same feed. (S3 shows 95% signal strength, Premiere shows 70%)
2) I have audio issues with SD recordings in most recent software update. (sound effects weirdness and volume changes after trick play)
3) I get weird video glitches that get progressively worse until eventually I have to reboot. (about once a month)
4) TiVo Search is not available via the SDUI
5) HDUI is half baked and really, really slow

Dan


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Okay, thanks for that. I haven't experienced any issues with 1, 2, or 3. If the signal strength is lower for some channels on the Premiere, I haven't noticed it, perhaps it's lower but still high enough to work just fine for me? And I certainly don't have audio issues with SD recordings, or weird video glitches that progressively get worse.

#4 and #5 are issues, to be sure. I just stick with the SDUI so as not to be annoyed (good news: it's super, super responsive!) I never got into TiVo Search before, so this way I don't really know what I am missing. And if I want to search dynamically for new things to record, I just use the iPad app.

The biggest problem for me is #5, not from a functional standpoint. It's just rather annoying and somewhat embarrassing that TiVo couldn't prioritize this, find the time/resources to simply and intelligently present an HD UI that works.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The iPad app is similar to TiVo Search. I just don't have an iPad.

Dan


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

The stream locked on wired gigabit for me. I hope they do get it working.

Dan203, the ipad app is not really like tivo search. More like a super remote. Can control to do and season passes, view the guide, delete shows, etc. If it could be used to control MRV, I'd be really pleased.

I agree on the weaker tuners in the Premiere compared to the S3 or HD. It is on both cable and OTA.

But I ended up with four anyway...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

lafos said:


> Dan203, the ipad app is not really like tivo search. More like a super remote. Can control to do and season passes, view the guide, delete shows, etc. If it could be used to control MRV, I'd be really pleased.


You can search for and "explore" shows too though, which replicates much of the same "TiVo Search" functionality. It does, indeed, fill some of the gap left behind by TiVo Search not being available to the SD UI.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> You're very lucky! I posted a picture in another forum showing that with Brighthouse almost everything I record in HD except local programming is restricted. The boxes were doing relatively nothing other than whatever they do in the background. Gigabit wired. No other transfers or recordings, only attempting to stream restricted shows. They stream wonderfully until they totally freeze and reboot. So long as this is occurring streaming is a great concept. . .not ready for prime time.


I watched two hour long shows and two half hour shows. The first one was fine. IT streamed through with me using the 30 sec. scan to scan over the commercials and had no issues. Although when I selected to delete it, it did not delete it from the box I was streaming from.

Then for the second show I decided to have two streams going between two Premieres. After around 25 minutes the one I was watching locked up. The other unit continued to stream. I waited around ten minutes and then I rebooted it. Once it rebooted I tried a different show but only streaming in one direction. That one seemed fine, and it came to the end and asked me if I wanted to delete it, I selected to keep it and then the screen that freezes at the end of a recording stayed there. No mater what menu I went into, that frozen screen was the back drop. And when I tried to go to Live TV, it showed the TV info and also the guide would pop up, but it would stay on that frozen screen. I had to reboot it.

So then on the fourth show, it was a 30 minute show. And this time it went like the first one I watched. It had no problems and was just like watching the show from the local drive.

So I will definitely not try to stream in both directions at the same time, but from my four tries it is certainly not consistent when only two of the four tries worked as it should.

So I will try it some more, but only when I don't have any shows scheduled to record since I don't want to miss anything because the box needed to be rebooted.

Hopefully they get it sorted out soon. Streaming seems nice and I see it even works with the Amazon VOD titles that are restricted. So if they do offer the four tuner box and a streaming only box, I could potentially see selling three of my premieres for one four tuner box and a preview. As long as my out of pocket cost is nothing or very minimal.


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## tzroberts (Jun 28, 2011)

Just transferred 35 shows from a Series 3 to a Series 4, with no problem. Maybe the people having issues are connected to their network via wifi and not hardwired...???


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Transferring is not streaming.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Can we complain about it showing up then, when it's half-baked and clearly not ready for prime time? It's not like we've enabled it by entering some secret backdoor code. It's enabled by pressing "play."


No. You cannot. Next question.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If they can get streaing working properly, for me the best thing since none of the content off FiOS is restricted, is that streaming works for recordings currently in progress.

With just transfers you have to wait until the recording is finished to transfer it. But with streaming I can start watching from another Premiere at any point in the recording while the program is still being recorded.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Yes, if this streaming works well, I'd add a Premier Player box at each set so long as the pricing and subscription rates were reasonable. $500each for additional Premieres was not reasonable according to the spousal unit.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The newly announced TiVo Preview might be a better option (assuming it's offered for sale in retail channels and assuming TiVo doesn't price it ridiculously.)

http://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/business/Generic_SS-2011_Preview.pdf


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm hoping those units are <$150 and that they do not require a subscription. Or if they do require a subscription it's cheap, like $1-$3/mo

Dan


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Same page, Dan203. Last time I had a TiVo in my bedroom, the whirring of the fan and HD kept me up. I am happier just sharing one TiVo from the living room instead. For distinct show watching in the 2nd room, though, a unit like the Preview would be ideal.

So, I am hoping the exact same thing.

Alas... this is TiVo. I've a feeling it won't even be offered for retail sale anytime soon. And when it is, they'll stupidly price it at $499. Or $199, with a full TiVo subscription required. Something really dumb like that.

We'll see. Fingers crossed they don't mess this up.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rahnbo said:


> Well, for about 16 minutes I was incredibly impressed. I was streaming a program that was CCI restricted and it was playing just like it had been transferred even when skipping the commercials. At 16 minutes in to the program the image on the screen froze. The host Premiere was fine as was the network. Went back to the Premiere I was streaming to and that image was still there. Went to play a program that was recorded on the Premiere with the frozen image and instead of playing that program it brought me back to the frozen streaming image. From that point on the Premiere was completely frozen. It wouldn't respond to any input although the amber indicator did light up indicating it was getting the remote control input (just like the SDUI remote freeze problem). Tried the HDUI reset code, waited another 15 minutes and finally rebooted it.


Same thing happened to me, that why TiVo may not have a full release of streaming yet, you can't complain (to TiVo) about a non released feature not fulling working.


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## Johnwashere (Sep 17, 2005)

Tivo just said this on their facebook page:
"TiVo - Hi All, We are always working to improve the TiVo experience. Occasionally, features we are working on can be exposed prior to release. The ability to stream between two Premiere boxes is not officially supported at this time. We appreciate feedback on these features as it helps us continually improve the product. We will provide you an update when we have something more to share."


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

If would be fantastic if the devs could implement this streaming service through PyTiVo so I can stream directly from my server to my TiVo Premier... I know Streambaby does something similar but it has limitations and it would be nice to enable this service seamlessly through the My Shows menu.


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## shorties (Mar 2, 2010)

The old surveys TiVo did mentioned streaming to the TiVo iPad app, I hope that will be a feature they actually implement, and I hope it works outside the home over the Internet, like a slingbox.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

pyTiVo isn't a TiVo product, but they may eventually add it to TiVo Desktop which would be nice. Especially if it worked with H.264 video and didn't require a recode to MPEG-2.

Dan


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Can someone explain why some limited third party apps have been created? What is the technical hold up for a full app store?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

shorties said:


> The old surveys TiVo did mentioned streaming to the TiVo iPad app, I hope that will be a feature they actually implement, and I hope it works outside the home over the Internet, like a slingbox.


That would be freakin' fantastic, but I'm just not optimistic TiVo can pull that off.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I've streamed three more shows without issue. But with those, I starting recording a program on one Premiere and then started streaming it shortly after on another. So it was still recording while I was streaming.
There were also no other recordings going on from either Premiere other than the one recording that I was streaming to another box.
Plus these were all from the same channel, CNN-HD.
I'll need to try some more only this time adding another recording occurring at the same time to see what effect it has.

One thing I also have not tried is streaming from one Premiere to two other Premieres concurrently. Although based on when I streamed in both directions between two boxes, it will probably freeze at least one box.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

My guess is while it may allow two streams now it may be something they block in the future and only allow one stream. I am only going off the fact the Elite/Q were mentioned to only support 3 streams even though it has 4 tuners. 

This might just be though because the Elite/Q also can only handle 6 streams so it has to leave 3 open for other functions.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> pyTiVo isn't a TiVo product, but they may eventually add it to TiVo Desktop which would be nice. Especially if it worked with H.264 video and didn't require a recode to MPEG-2.
> 
> Dan


I realize that... But the PyTiVo devs have the flexibility to be more focused on this type of functionality then TiVo can be. Becides, I like PyTiVo alot better than TiVo-to-go...


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2008)

innocentfreak said:


> My guess is while it may allow two streams now it may be something they block in the future and only allow one stream. I am only going off the fact the Elite/Q were mentioned to only support 3 streams even though it has 4 tuners.
> 
> This might just be though because the Elite/Q also can only handle 6 streams so it has to leave 3 open for other functions.


My guess is that this is because 100Mb Ethernet can only handle 3 HD streams before becoming over-saturated, and/or that the TiVo hardware - network adapters - have similar limitations.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

After my last post I enabled two streams from one of my Premieres to go to two of my other Premieres. It was a 2 hour show. The originating Premiere was not recording anything, and neither were the receiving Premieres. It had gone through an hour of the program on both boxes before I left for work. I only did minimal FF/Rew and 30 second scanning but they were both fine during that hour. Both behaved as if it was being viewed from the local drive.

I let them continue when I left so when I get home tonight I'll need to see if any of the boxes froze and the end of the streaming program.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> My guess is that this is because 100Mb Ethernet can only handle 3 HD streams before becoming over-saturated, and/or that the TiVo hardware - network adapters - have similar limitations.


Forgot about that, but at least with the Q it will have MoCA 2.0 I believe which is faster than 100mb. I don't think speeds have been mentioned with the Elite yet so no way to know what type of connection it will have.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think they may use the MOCA in the Q to establish an ad hock network among it and the various Preview units in the house, but that it will still require a regular Ethernet connection for current network functionality. This will allow it to have the entire bandwidth of the MOCA network for streaming without the possibility of over saturating the users home network or requiring them to buy special MOCA hardware to connect the Q to their network. I believe the other "whole house DVRs" out there use a similar technique where the base unit and players communicate across a private network and not via the users home network.

Now when it comes to the Premiere and maybe even the Elite, they may fall back to Ethernet/WiFi since those wont be as controlled as the Q/Preview combos that will actually be installed by cable providers.

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I tried three streams this evening. I started a recording on one Premiere, then I went to three other Premieres and initiated streaming from the recording I had just started. I did this twice this evening. Each time it worked with all three boxes for 20 to 25 minutes. During that time each box did the FF/REW/30scan with no issues and it behaved just like it was from the local drive.

The first try the box recording and sending the streams rebooted after 20 to 25 minutes. The Premieres receiving the stream had a frozen stream, but as soon as I hit the TiVo button I got into the menu and I could go to live TV. and they were fine.

On the second try, after 20 to 25 minutes, the box that was recording and sending out the streams did not reboot, it was fine. But all three boxes receiving the streams froze. And I had a frozen image on all three boxes that stayed as the background no matter what menu I went to or even if I went to live TV.
All three boxes had to be rebooted.

This shows a lot of promise if these kinks can get worked out. I'll only mess with it now as one stream since that seems to have better luck for me. But I still won't do it if I have any recordings scheduled.


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2008)

The Elite is described as being able to bridge MoCA. The Preview may also have this capability. If so, only one of these needs to be connected to your regular Ethernet LAN. The bridge should be able to forward DHCP requests and responses. Also, the Previews will need to be able to stream Netflix, Hulu Plus, YouTube etc.

I see no point for the MoCA to be ad hoc as this would be an unnecessary complication. Nor do I see how making this ad hoc would clear out any bandwidth. It's not like using different subnet IP addresses means you don't have to keep sharing the physical media.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The Elite is described as being able to bridge MoCA. The Preview may also have this capability. If so, only one of these needs to be connected to your regular Ethernet LAN. The bridge should be able to forward DHCP requests and responses. Also, the Previews will need to be able to stream Netflix, Hulu Plus, YouTube etc.
> 
> I see no point for the MoCA to be ad hoc as this would be an unnecessary complication. Nor do I see how making this ad hoc would clear out any bandwidth. It's not like using different subnet IP addresses means you don't have to keep sharing the physical media.


I think what he is saying is that if you choose not to bridge it to you home network, it can use zeroconf to set up a .local network and work among the boxes on MoCA without needing any user interaction.

I agree that once you put a bridge in place, or connect both MoCA and Ethernet to the Elite, DHCP would take over and everything will be on the same subnet.

This is how DirecTV's Whole home DVR setup works. If you don't buy the Cinema Connection kit (bridge) it uses zeroconf and is fully self contained. If you do install the bridge it uses DHCP and sees and can be seen by your home network for DLNA and internet downloads of VOD content. (DirecTV's flavor of MoCA tuned to work with the satellite RF spectrum on the cable is called DECA)


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

I'm curious how well this would play with an existing MoCA network. Maybe IP doesn't play a part, and communication is somehow done at lower levels of Ethernet, or a different protocol altogether.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure it is still IP. MoCA is just PHY layer instead of Ethernet, the same protocols are used on the higher layers. My experience with the DirecTV version shows that DLNA protocols are going accross both transparently. That is TCP/IP with DTCP encryption. If you have an existing MoCA network, I would expect it to just work, but get the IP addresses from the MoCA router using DHCP without need of a bridge.

That wouldn't work with the DirecTV implementation though. The frequency bands are different and cable and satellite MoCA cannot interoperate without some sort of Cable MoCA to Satellite MoCA bridge between them. (Something that probably doesn't even exist)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I see no point for the MoCA to be ad hoc as this would be an unnecessary complication. Nor do I see how making this ad hoc would clear out any bandwidth. It's not like using different subnet IP addresses means you don't have to keep sharing the physical media.


What I was suggesting was to keep the streaming on the MOCA network and all other traffic on the ethernet/wifi network. That way 100% of the MOCA network's bandwidth would be dedicated to streaming and there would be no chance of interference from other devices or traffic.

However if the TiVo acts as a bridge via MOCA then that would not be possible. Although I guess they could use some sort of QOS functionality to provide priority to streaming traffic.

Dan


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> What I was suggesting was to keep the streaming on the MOCA network and all other traffic on the ethernet/wifi network. That way 100% of the MOCA network's bandwidth would be dedicated to streaming and there would be no chance of interference from other devices or traffic.
> 
> However if the TiVo acts as a bridge via MOCA then that would not be possible. Although I guess they could use some sort of QOS functionality to provide priority to streaming traffic.


If you assume that the Ethernet connection from the Bridge or Premiere Elite goes to a switch then streams between the Elite and client box would remain in the MoCA network. Any traffic not aimed directly at one of those boxes wouldn't get in either, so for the most part streaming would be protected. Also MoCA provides for bandwidth reservation within the MoCA bus environment so exterior traffic would only get left over bandwidth. In other words, yes it has QOS functionality built in.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Well there you go then. A system consisting of a Q and a few Previews conected via MOCA should provide a better streaming experience then a couple of Premieres connected via Ethernet. Higher bandwidth (175Mbps vs 100Mbps), QOS and the lack of traffic from other devices.

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Of course extra bandwidth never hurts, but the 100mb/s connection seems more than capable for streaming. When I did three concurrent streams from one Premiere to three other Premieres yesterday it was fine for the 20 to 25 minutes until it froze or rebooted. But even with one stream it seems like people have frozen or rebooted after 20 minutes so it would seem like bandwidth is not the issue.

Although I am using a gigabit backbone so where MoCA would probably help the most is for people that only have 100mb/s backbones in their homes.
Plus MoCA makes the most sense because most homes(I wish all were since my girlfriend's house was never wired with coax twenty years ago) are already wired with coax so MoCA makes it very easy to set up a robust network.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> Plus MoCA makes the most sense because most homes(I wish all were since my girlfriend's house was never wired with coax twenty years ago) are already wired with coax so MoCA makes it very easy to set up a robust network.


Well in this case MOCA makes sense because every TiVo requires a coax connection. So if the place is like your girlfriend's then the cable company would just have to wire coax to all the necessary rooms. (remember these Q units don't support OTA)

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Well in this case MOCA makes sense because every TiVo requires a coax connection. So if the place is like your girlfriend's then the cable company would just have to wire coax to all the necessary rooms. (remember these Q units don't support OTA)
> 
> Dan


Unfortunately they could not do it without making a mess of cable runs on the inside and outside judging by the work that Comcast, FiOS, and DirecTV has done on other home in her neighborhood.

She is currently fine with OTA. And the only way she will probably get any coax is if Verizon kicks her off DSL. Which might happen soon since Verizon is supposed to abandon the copper plant in that area and force everyone to a fiber connection. At least that was their plans. I don't know if they still plan on going forward with it.(Although I hope they go forward with it since that would mean she would have a nice speedy FiOS connection instead of her slow 1.25 mb/s DSL connection.)


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Same page, Dan203. Last time I had a TiVo in my bedroom, the whirring of the fan and HD kept me up. I am happier just sharing one TiVo from the living room instead. For distinct show watching in the 2nd room, though, a unit like the Preview would be ideal.
> 
> So, I am hoping the exact same thing.
> 
> ...


You left out that half the features they're touting won't actually be implemented...


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> You left out that half the features won't they're touting won't actually be implemented...


Well to be fair, they will introduce a half baked product and then take lots of surveys asking people if they want Tivo to spend time implementing the features they were promised in the first place.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

And then they'll come out with some new box, with the promise of even more features, that makes the $800 box I paid for 16 months prior, obsolete. And the new box will remain feature incomplete two years after it's introduction...


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