# Walking Dead - "18 Miles Out" - Feb 26, 2010



## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

I missed the bit before the credits. Can someone summarize?

At least we are getting some action outside of the farm. Still looking for the event that will drive them from the farm. I hope/suspect it will happen soon.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

It was just a preview of what happens later in the episode I think.


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## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

I thought so - it looked like what just happened with Shane getting trapped on the bus.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Did they ever explain the significance of 18 miles?

It seems like an odd and arbitrary distance to pick...


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Related to this episode -- I liked the song that played near the end:
"Civilian" by Wye Oake.

I discovered that Amazon has the song as a *free *MP3 download here:
http://www.amazon.com/Civilian/dp/B0058VIKLW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330317464&sr=8-1


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Loved how Rick sort of "ran away" leaving Shane in the bus with walkers outside. Shane had a good "omg" look on his face. Of course, being Rick, he didn't leave for good. I am thinking that may have straightened some things out in Shane's head a bit.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Did they ever explain the significance of 18 miles?
> 
> It seems like an odd and arbitrary distance to pick...


Chai.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Loved how Rick sort of "ran away" leaving Shane in the bus with walkers outside. Shane had a good "omg" look on his face. Of course, being Rick, he didn't leave for good. I am thinking that may have straightened some things out in Shane's head a bit.


I think it convinced Shane He needs to be the last man standing.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I really hope you can't become undead by contact/infection. If that's the case, a significant portion of the cast got wiped out last night. Personally, I don't see the point of cutting your hand and smearing your own blood...the walkers appeared to be attracted to them regardless. Given that this happened prominently in this episode, it feels like foreshadowing to me. As does the lone walker in the field...perhaps a precursor of a zombie overrun heading towards the farm?

I posted this prediction elsewhere, but, in regard to Lori's baby, I'm predicting that the baby doesn't survive the birth, and is actually born a walker. Except given this new twist, they'll actually refer to it as a "crawler". They will raise it like a normal child, although when it becomes too much to handle (starts smoking, chasing zombie girls, staying out late, and drinking), Rick and Lori will turn their backs on it and tell Shane, "You take care of him. You said he was yours to begin with."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Loved how Rick sort of "ran away" leaving Shane in the bus with walkers outside. Shane had a good "omg" look on his face. Of course, being Rick, he didn't leave for good. I am thinking that may have straightened some things out in Shane's head a bit.


I would hope that he would seer the irony (if their positions were reversed, of course, Rick would be dead, because leaving Shane behind was exactly the kind of hard decision Shane accuses Rick of not being able to make). But since Shane is a sociopath, I doubt anything of the sort will flit through his brain.


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

TiVotion said:


> Personally, I don't see the point of cutting your hand and smearing your own blood...the walkers appeared to be attracted to them regardless. Given that this happened prominently in this episode, it feels like foreshadowing to me.


For me, the important thing here wasn't whether or not the technique was sound, but rather that Shane wound up using it. He had just been verbally and physically assaulting Rick over his ability to be a leader, and yet when things turned bad he used Rick's new trick to buy himself some more time.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I don't think the lone walker in the field was meant to foreshadow anything - it was just a bit of artistic flourish. I liked it. Actually, I think the mid-season finale and these first few episodes of the second half have all been pretty good - a step up in pacing and general quality. Since that's coincident with Mazarra taking over for Darabont, I'm encouraged by the direction the show is heading.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

BTW, the lone field walker was the same actor as the walker that came out of the window and looked at Rick before chasing him. Not the same character of course, just the same actor.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

When I saw Shane do the smearing of blood on the school bus- it was following Rick's example and as a way to get the Walkers to focus on the blood instead of on him and give him a chance to stick a knife in their brains and stop them. He couldn't kill them en masse with his knife, but could take them down one by one. 

I love the scene with Rick in the car shooting the Walkers and Shane leaping into the car. I felt like it was Dukes of Hazzard's day on Walking Dead. Yeehaw!


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> I really hope you can't become undead by contact/infection. If that's the case, a significant portion of the cast got wiped out last night. Personally, I don't see the point of cutting your hand and smearing your own blood...the walkers appeared to be attracted to them regardless. Given that this happened prominently in this episode, it feels like foreshadowing to me. As does the lone walker in the field...perhaps a precursor of a zombie overrun heading towards the farm?


If that is the case then they need to stop opening wounds on their hands. Walker blood seems to go everywhere and if you get it in your hand your infected. Same with mouth or eyes it seems. Rick with the walkers on top of him seemed like he could get infected real easy.

It seems the depot was an organized place, the two police officers got bit infected while trying to round them all up inside, then they locked them up and locked up the compound so none of them could escape. That is why I think the two cops were outside and everyone else was inside.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I was thinking about a possible flaw in Rick's plan of leaving the boy somewhere he would at least have a chance.

Say there were no walkers at that school and the dropped the boy off there. There were an awful lot of cars around. Surely the boy could have gotten one of them going, and then the whole idea of taking him 18+ miles away would have been moot. That is unless, Rick planned to flatten all the tires and take all the coil wires or something.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

really enjoyed this episode...is the show back on track?


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Did they ever explain the significance of 18 miles?
> 
> It seems like an odd and arbitrary distance to pick...


I thought about it and figured it was over a days walk.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

mwhip said:


> If that is the case then they need to stop opening wounds on their hands. Walker blood seems to go everywhere and if you get it in your hand your infected. Same with mouth or eyes it seems. Rick with the walkers on top of him seemed like he could get infected real easy.
> 
> It seems the depot was an organized place, the two police officers got bit infected while trying to round them all up inside, then they locked them up and locked up the compound so none of them could escape. That is why I think the two cops were outside and everyone else was inside.


I don't think that's how the infection works. I think every one is already infected and any cause of death automaticaly results in reanimation. A bite just causes massive blood loss, shock and fever(infection) causing death. Death=Reanimation. To much blood flying around for any contact with fluids to cause reanimation(28 days later).

I think the cops guarding the depot starved to death. The focus on the empty cans when Rick and Shane first went in.

After dying from hunger(dehydration) they reanimated. That's why Rick and Shane were puzzled by the lack of bites/scratches.

I'm sure that's what the CDC guy whispered in Ricks ear. Every one is all ready a zombie just waiting to die/reanimate.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

I took a different take on Rick and Shane. Didn't Rick stop at the two officers and see that they died together and instead of abandoning Shane, go back and get him because they were/are partners?

If they take him back to the farm, there's no way that they can kill him, can they? Herschel won't let them do that, would he? It's one thing to kill the two in the bar, but they can't kill an unarmed person, can they?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I took a different take on Rick and Shane. Didn't Rick stop at the two officers and see that they died together and instead of abandoning Shane, go back and get him because they were/are partners?


I got that take on it too. Rick looked at those dead men and saw what he and Shane were - partners. He saw them and realized they had stood together and died together. As partners do. He got the guns from them, which is why he might have stopped in the first place, but then after seeing them, it reinforced his will to go back for Shane. I don't know if he would have left Shane anyway, but we were led to believe it for a second.

I think the best thing of all about this episode was Shane and Rick finally talking - without that slut Lorie around to much stuff up.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

If I were Maggie, I'd kick Andrea's ass up and down that farm if she deliberately left my suicidal sister alone.

Shane and Andrea really need to head off on their own. I'm getting sick of them. Frankly, not many of these people have an abundance of appealing attributes.

I still don't get the need to kill the new kid. Did they even ask him if he has any skills the group might need? He probably was just a drifter who hooked up with whatever group would have him, just like how their group came together.

T-Dog needs to hire Drew Rosenhaus as his agent and maybe do some situps on the front lawn to get more screen time. The walker strolling through the field got more screen time than T-Dog.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> If I were Maggie, I'd kick Andrea's ass up and down that farm if she deliberately left my suicidal sister alone.
> 
> Shane and Andrea really need to head off on their own. I'm getting sick of them. Frankly, not many of these people have an abundance of appealing attributes.
> 
> ...


I think what Andrea did was right on like Andrea said "you cant sit on her". I totally understood where she was coming from and she needed to know and they needed to know if she really wanted to die. Don't want dead weight around. No pun intended.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mwhip said:


> I think what Andrea did was right on like Andrea said "you cant sit on her". I totally understood where she was coming from and she needed to know and they needed to know if she really wanted to die. Don't want dead weight around. No pun intended.


You would let somebody do that to a member of your family? "Oh, I'm just going to take a walk around the farm whistling Dixie while your seriously depressed, suicidal sister that you left in my care decides whether to kill herself. Toodles." Andrea would resemble a walker when I was done with her if I were Maggie.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And it slipped right by Andrea when it was pointed out to her that if they had acted towards her as she wanted to act towards Kid Sis, then Andrea would be dead.

That's one of the great things about community...it supports people at times when they can't get by on their own.

I think they're trying too hard to explain Andrea. Comic book Andrea has a lot of the same characteristics, but that's just the way she is. By trying to come up with a process by which TV Andrea becomes that way, I think they're really selling the character short.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

MonsterJoe said:


> really enjoyed this episode...is the show back on track?


sure seems like it to me. 
Great episode.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I thought this was a great ep. In fact, my only real quibble was that the opener was unncessary. We didn't really need to see the action first and then flash back to how it started - the ep would have better without it. 

As for Andrea - there's no doubt that she's right about Beth. In a post-apocalpytic world, you really can't afford to carry around a suicidal person with you. What happens if the zombies finally discover the farm and overrun it? You might end up dead yourself if you spend precious minutes trying to convince Beth to come with you. She needs to decide if she wants to live or die on her own.

Of course, Maggie was absolutely right to hate her for it too. That's her prerogative as family. 

I *loved* Andrea laying into Lori though. That was awesome. I was kinda hoping she'd smack her too.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I *loved* Andrea laying into Lori though. That was awesome. I was kinda hoping she'd smack her too.


It was a difficult scene for me. I hate both of them equally for different reasons.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I *loved* Andrea laying into Lori though. That was awesome. I was kinda hoping she'd smack her too.


I agree with this! I was more than a little pissed off that Lori seems to think only the men can protect while the women make the homes. The duties should be divided equally among the able bodied - Dale just sits on the RV, not like he's doing to go hand-to-hand with a zombie. No reason he can't wash the freaking clothes too, same for Glenn, T-Dog, etc. Everyone should be pitching in everywhere.

But I don't agree on the suicide stuff. Andrea only "came through it" because Dale prevented her from going through with it. She would have if she'd had the opportunity. It's hypocritical of her to say that everyone needs to make their own choice, when her choice would have been to die, but she is glad she is alive now. If she was terminally ill, mortally wounded or disabled in a way that would make her likely zombie bait, I could see supporting her.

The worst thing that Andrea did was pretend to offer to help and then leave the suicidal person alone. Andrea is free to have her own opinions, but she was totally slimey by getting involved. If she was not willing to help the way the family wanted, she should have stayed the eff away.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I don't like it when any show does the "flash forward" thing at the beginning.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

VegasVic said:


> I don't like it when any show does the "flash forward" thing at the beginning.


There are times when it's an effective narrative strategy, but most of the time it's just a lazy way to start a show. As here.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

We saw the whole "women cook/wash/raise kids" thing way back in season one when the women were gathered by the water washing clothing. It's ridiculous, but they let it happen.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Loving these post-break episodes!

I loved that Rick and Shane had some interactions without Lori. They talked about supplies and then finally the relationship stuff.

I knew that boy was in trouble as soon as he said he went to school with her. I still don't like this idea that he has to be a bad guy and has to be dealt with. He just doesn't seem to be that type of person.

I still can't get over these people's recovery times for major injuries, though


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## CharlieW (May 30, 2001)

pmyers said:


> I still can't get over these people's recovery times for major injuries, though


The way I look at it -- it was better than watching him lay around in bed for two or three episodes before Rick and Shane decided what to do with him. I'll suspend belief in order to avoid more post-op recovery episodes.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

MonsterJoe said:


> It was a difficult scene for me. I hate both of them equally for different reasons.


+1... Both of them were making stupid arguments.


Zevida said:


> But I don't agree on the suicide stuff. Andrea only "came through it" because Dale prevented her from going through with it. She would have if she'd had the opportunity. It's hypocritical of her to say that everyone needs to make their own choice, when her choice would have been to die, but she is glad she is alive now. If she was terminally ill, mortally wounded or disabled in a way that would make her likely zombie bait, I could see supporting her.
> 
> The worst thing that Andrea did was pretend to offer to help and then leave the suicidal person alone. Andrea is free to have her own opinions, but she was totally slimey by getting involved. If she was not willing to help the way the family wanted, she should have stayed the eff away.


The way I see it, if Andrea was really suicidal to begin with for the reasons she stated, she'd still be suicidal now. The fact that someone cared enough to stop her, and she got over her blue moment, tells you that she wasn't really suicidal, just had a lapse of deep depression. I honestly think every one of the survivors has had a suicidal thought at one point since the break out. If they all succumbed to that low moment there would be no survivors left.


VegasVic said:


> I don't like it when any show does the "flash forward" thing at the beginning.


I sometimes think they do it just to fill the hour.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> We saw the whole "women cook/wash/raise kids" thing way back in season one when the women were gathered by the water washing clothing. It's ridiculous, but they let it happen.


And I keep waiting for somebody to call them on it, especially with the emergence of Sniper Andrea, but I guess they're not ready for that plot development yet.

It's hard to keep in mind how very little time has passed since the end of the world...it's only been a couple of weeks since Rick woke up in the hospital. (And sometimes I think it's hard for the writers to keep it in mind.)


robojerk said:


> I sometimes think they do it just to fill the hour.


Nah, it's so that the episode can have an exciting beginning. The middle of a zombie attack, instead of a couple of guys driving down a lonely highway. With a guy in the trunk.

Done right, that technique leaves us wondering how the situation developed. But here, it was pretty self-explanatory.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Was this the largest time jump we've seen in the show yet? I don't think we've ever jumped more than 2-3 days before at most.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

robojerk said:


> I sometimes think they do it just to fill the hour.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Nah, it's so that the episode can have an exciting beginning. The middle of a zombie attack, instead of a couple of guys driving down a lonely highway. With a guy in the trunk.
> 
> Done right, that technique leaves us wondering how the situation developed. But here, it was pretty self-explanatory.


I said _sometimes_, and I was talking about all shows in general.. _It's my opinion_ that they do it just to fill time. I know that they think they're doing to to make the beginning exciting, but it's not needed if your show is good enough to take us there organically, and thus they do it to subconsciously or something to generate filler. Like I said, it's just my opinion..


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

markz said:


> I was thinking about a possible flaw in Rick's plan of leaving the boy somewhere he would at least have a chance.
> 
> Say there were no walkers at that school and the dropped the boy off there. There were an awful lot of cars around. Surely the boy could have gotten one of them going, and then the whole idea of taking him 18+ miles away would have been moot. That is unless, Rick planned to flatten all the tires and take all the coil wires or something.


I assumed the idea was that he would have no idea where to go to find them, either with his friends if he got back with them, or on his own. Once they suspected that he knew where Maggie lived, that was out the window. I wondered if they didn't talk to him at all since they took him home. You'd think he would have mentioned knowing Maggie sooner since he seemed to think it would help him.



Barmat said:


> I think the cops guarding the depot starved to death. The focus on the empty cans when Rick and Shane first went in.
> 
> After dying from hunger(dehydration) they reanimated. That's why Rick and Shane were puzzled by the lack of bites/scratches.
> 
> I'm sure that's what the CDC guy whispered in Ricks ear. Every one is all ready a zombie just waiting to die/reanimate.


I thought that too, but Rick seemed really puzzled at the lack of bites on them. Unless he didn't believe the CDC guy. If he knows, he sure wasn't telling Shane.

Since I knew how it would end, I was cringing every time they yelled and played that loud music, and fired their gun......but then I probably would have done that even if I didn't know zombies were coming. When I'm in zombieland I'm going to be tiptoeing around and whispering all the time.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I knew that boy was in trouble as soon as he said he went to school with her. I still don't like this idea that he has to be a bad guy and has to be dealt with. He just doesn't seem to be that type of person.


He seemed to enjoy killing the zombie girl a little too much


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Test said:


> He seemed to enjoy killing the zombie girl a little too much


Yeah, there were definite flashes of evil in his eyes when the boys weren't looking.


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

What I didn't understand was when the boy said that he knew Maggie and her father. I'm assuming the boy was kept by them long enough to heal up, which meant there would have been plenty of time for him to let them know that he knew them.

What am I missing?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Tsiehta said:


> What I didn't understand was when the boy said that he knew Maggie and her father. I'm assuming the boy was kept by them long enough to heal up, which meant there would have been plenty of time for him to let them know that he knew them.
> 
> What am I missing?


I wondered that too.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> T-Dog needs to hire Drew Rosenhaus as his agent and maybe do some situps on the front lawn to get more screen time. The walker strolling through the field got more screen time than T-Dog.


Black guys in this genre rarely make it this far so it's probably a good thing. If he gets more face time, he's a goner!

As for the women doing the laundry. Has Rick ever changed his shirt? I didn't notice this episode, but he was wearing that sweaty cop shirt all S1 and the first half a S2. The women need to step up with their duties. 

As for the episode in general, who said we can't have zombie killing and move the story along. The double shot through the head of the "dead" zombie on the Rick foursome was a nice touch. Justified too.


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## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

VegasVic said:


> I don't like it when any show does the "flash forward" thing at the beginning.


Completely agree. It would have made the image of the first zombie in the window so much more surprising/exciting had they _not_ shown it. Since we were spoiled into knowing that they'd be chased by zombies, the only question was "when are they going to appear?"


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

TiVotion said:


> I really hope you can't become undead by contact/infection. If that's the case, a significant portion of the cast got wiped out last night. Personally, I don't see the point of cutting your hand and smearing your own blood...the walkers appeared to be attracted to them regardless. Given that this happened prominently in this episode, it feels like foreshadowing to me. As does the lone walker in the field...perhaps a precursor of a zombie overrun heading towards the farm?
> 
> I posted this prediction elsewhere, but, in regard to Lori's baby, I'm predicting that the baby doesn't survive the birth, and is actually born a walker. Except given this new twist, they'll actually refer to it as a "crawler". They will raise it like a normal child, although when it becomes too much to handle (starts smoking, chasing zombie girls, staying out late, and drinking), Rick and Lori will turn their backs on it and tell Shane, "You take care of him. You said he was yours to begin with."


You need to start watching the animated series Ugly Americans. You'll get all of your wishes and more. It's really good and available on Netflix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_Americans_(TV_series)


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm going to catch hell for this, but in a post-apocalyptic world, particularly in this where with the farm you can expect them to become a mini-agrarian society some traditional roles will emerge naturally. For the most part, traditional male and female roles will occur with few exceptions.

One thing I don't see is that there is any long term planning in this group because of their dysfunction. But basically you need:

Defense - Zombies and humans. Different defense strategies and needs

Food - production and cultivation, includes cattle.

Household maintenance - Shelter, hygiene and food preparation

Scouting - scavenging, defense, and long term use of discarded items (these guys need an electrician to generate their own power)


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rick was speaking long term to Shane during the drive, but Shane was tuning him out. He was talking about stocking up for the winter, the effect of winter on the zombies, etc. He also stated talking in this episode about ammo conservation. (Though even if ammo were in good supply the knife idea still has merit because it is a more silent kill, though the risks of close quarters combat are a pretty steep trade). He's one of the only characters so far to be talking long range, I think.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I liked it when Rick was talking long range. I am not sure how far away it is, but they still have that traffic jam to go collect supplies from. Just the water truck alone is a boon. Even with the farm having all those wells, water from a jug could be useful.


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

Second half has definitely been an improvement over the first - that Sophia search brought the show to a crawl. The scenes with the girls at the house were pretty pointless - I think we've covered the "there's no hope, what's the point of living?" angle more than sufficiently. I didn't really get the idea about dropping the kid 18 miles away, didn't make all that much sense, especially if he's a local he could figure out where he was and where they were. I wonder if we'll ever hear from the black dude and his kid again. If not, what was the point of those dumb walkie talkie scenes? I also don't get how up close and personal they continue to get with the zombies, you would think a splash of blood or saliva in the eyes or mouth would get them infected.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I wonder if he really knew/knows Maggie from school or if he just saw her or heard her name mentioned while he was recovering. If he is from around there then yeah, the 18 mile drop off probably didn't matter at all. It was a surprise to Rick that he knew Maggie so the guy didn't say anything about it in recovery, which is kind of odd and would set my alarms going off.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I am really loving the second half of this season. I thought the show lost its way first half the season. I just wish there were more episodes it is ending way to soon. I am glad the show is in very good hands now.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Lot of great questions brought up here. I always enjoy the ep discussions here.

I enjoyed the ep and am with those for whom the intial preview segment was kind of unnecessary/weird. I remember thinking 'yikes, what the heck did I miss?'. (or something like that. ha!) Didn't need to see the scene twice.

Zombie sandwich was cool, especially when Rick figured out he would have to shoot through big tooth guy to get the guy behind him.

Loved the whole 'leaving Shane behind, then Rick sees the two dead cops and has change of heart' scene. Jumping out of bus plan good. I agree about the infection issue. I think as long as you manage to stay alive, you're ok (as ok as you can be in post-apocalyptic zombie world days). I thought, initially, the blood-spreading, knife kill thing was just a two-fold effort - not make noise to attract more walkers, and save on ammo. They sure do have a lot of ammo.

The new kid was on Talking Dead this week. Kind of interesting, although he seemed kind of spaced out. Also old farmer/doctor guy actor (sorry, keep forgetting character name). He was a little more interesting. Love the 'pop up video' segment.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

sharkster said:


> The new kid was on Talking Dead this week. Kind of interesting, although he seemed kind of spaced out. Also old farmer/doctor guy actor (sorry, keep forgetting character name). He was a little more interesting. Love the 'pop up video' segment.


He struck me as being young, nervous, and a wee bit vapid.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Pretty much all of the actors who have shown up on Talking Dead have been useless, but the new kids was worse than most. I like the celebrity fans much more.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Where the heck was Herschel? That caught me as strange.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

We didn't see a lot of the characters this episode. Unless I missed them in the background, we didn't see:

Dale
T-Dog
Glenn
Herschel
Carol
Darryl
Carl
the two other people who are farm people who I can't remember


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I just found it weird that Herschel was such a big part of the last episode and his daughter is still sick and he is nowhere to be found.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I just found it weird that Herschel was such a big part of the last episode and his daughter is still sick and he is nowhere to be found.


He was on a bender in the barn....


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I just found it weird that Herschel was such a big part of the last episode and his daughter is still sick and he is nowhere to be found.


They mentioned he was sewing up his daughter's wrist.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> Rick was speaking long term to Shane during the drive, but Shane was tuning him out. He was talking about stocking up for the winter, the effect of winter on the zombies, etc. He also stated talking in this episode about ammo conservation. (Though even if ammo were in good supply the knife idea still has merit because it is a more silent kill, though the risks of close quarters combat are a pretty steep trade). He's one of the only characters so far to be talking long range, I think.


Try and find a machete or sword  Longer range head kills/cut offs 



betts4 said:


> I wonder if he really knew/knows Maggie from school or if he just saw her or heard her name mentioned while he was recovering. If he is from around there then yeah, the 18 mile drop off probably didn't matter at all. It was a surprise to Rick that he knew Maggie so the guy didn't say anything about it in recovery, which is kind of odd and would set my alarms going off.


He said he knew her father. He should have said he knew HERSCHEL, I think he is lying since he didn't say that or their last name.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> Rick was speaking long term to Shane during the drive, but Shane was tuning him out. He was talking about stocking up for the winter, the effect of winter on the zombies, etc. He also stated talking in this episode about ammo conservation. (Though even if ammo were in good supply the knife idea still has merit because it is a more silent kill, though the risks of close quarters combat are a pretty steep trade). He's one of the only characters so far to be talking long range, I think.





tiams said:


> They mentioned he was sewing up his daughter's wrist.


But before that cutting, he was still no where.

Talking Dead with Herschel, not really a spoiler but a spoiler for Talking Dead. 


Spoiler



Herschel said how he was watching season 1 with his 97 year old mother, and she loved it. Even asked to read with him when he was auditioning for S2


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

danterner said:


> Rick was speaking long term to Shane during the drive, but Shane was tuning him out. He was talking about stocking up for the winter, the effect of winter on the zombies, etc. He also stated talking in this episode about ammo conservation. (Though even if ammo were in good supply the knife idea still has merit because it is a more silent kill, though the risks of close quarters combat are a pretty steep trade). He's one of the only characters so far to be talking long range, I think.


Reading back what I wrote, it occurs to me it might be confusing because I started by talking about long range planning (eg thinking ahead to the winter) but also interjected something about long range weapons (bullets versus knives).


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> He said he knew her father. He should have said he knew HERSCHEL, I think he is lying since he didn't say that or their last name.


I thought he said Maggie's name when he was down on the ground yelling at Rick, that he was in school with her but she never noticed him.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

betts4 said:


> I thought he said Maggie's name when he was down on the ground yelling at Rick, that he was in school with her but she never noticed him.


He might have picked up on the name from the house. It's convient that he didn't say Herschel, but her father. And that she wouldn't remember him, but she remember her.

All he gave was her name, so there is a possibility that he is completely lying.

Probably not though


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I don't remember him saying anythign about her father. I just remember him saying he went to school with Maggie but she wouldn't remember him.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I don't remember him saying anythign about her father. I just remember him saying he went to school with Maggie but she wouldn't remember him.


He said (paraphrasing) "I know Maggie, I went to school with her, she wouldn't remember me... I know her father too" He didn't mention the farm, or where they lived though.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> He said (paraphrasing) "I know Maggie, I went to school with her, she wouldn't remember me... I know her father too" He didn't mention the farm, or where they lived though.


well that certainly does make it more interesting and plausible that he is lying. Should be entertaining to find out!

One would think if he was telling the truth that he would have brought that up back at the farm.


----------



## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

I figured it was because Maggie was a hottie and he was just some underclassman nerd kid. Of course Maggie wouldn't remember him.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I figured it was because Maggie was a hottie and he was just some underclassman nerd kid. Of course Maggie wouldn't remember him.


Probably the most likely scenario 

The way he phrased stuff and it played out, it left some room for doubt in my head.


----------



## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

Now that they know zombies go crazy over blood, will they make blood-grenades so they can distract zombies and get away?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TiVotion said:


> Personally, I don't see the point of cutting your hand and smearing your own blood...the walkers appeared to be attracted to them regardless.


As stated before, it was a way to make the zombies focus their faces on a certain place, making the knife kills easier.



Barmat said:


> I think the cops guarding the depot starved to death. The focus on the empty cans when Rick and Shane first went in.
> 
> After dying from hunger(dehydration) they reanimated. That's why Rick and Shane were puzzled by the lack of bites/scratches.


I don't think so. Why would the two cops/guards stay in that compound and starve to death? Wouldn't they eventually decide to screw it and leave to go find some food?


Zevida said:


> But I don't agree on the suicide stuff. Andrea only "came through it" because Dale prevented her from going through with it. She would have if she'd had the opportunity. It's hypocritical of her to say that everyone needs to make their own choice, when her choice would have been to die, but she is glad she is alive now. If she was terminally ill, mortally wounded or disabled in a way that would make her likely zombie bait, I could see supporting her.


Disagree. The fact that Andrea is still alive shows that she truly wanted to live. It had nothing to do with Dale taking her gun away. She made the decision to live and she knows that Beth will have to make that decision as well, or she'll be worthless.


pmyers said:


> One would think if he was telling the truth that he would have brought that up back at the farm.


He clearly felt threatened by Rick's group and had no intention of letting on that he knew anyone associated with the group. He intended to keep that as a secret until it became clear to him that it was his only way to not get left behind by himself. Actually, by blurting it out, he put himself in more danger from Rick and Shane.

The one thing I wanted to point out that I found odd is that Rick and Shane seemed to search that whole facility for supplies. So how is it that they didn't notice a whole building completely locked up? How is it that they hadn't looked in the windows and seen the walkers? If all it took for the walkers to come cascading out of the building was a broken window, you'd think they would have all been pressed up against the glass when Randall, Rick, and Shane were making so much noise yelling at each other prior to that.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

There is something key about the dead uniformed men. What killed them if they were not bitten? Shane and Rick said they died of scratches, but I don't think they could find any visible scratches. If walkers killed them, why didn't they devour them? As said above, they surely wouldn't stay there and starve. Something sudden killed them.


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

tiams said:


> There is something key about the dead uniformed men. What killed them if they were not bitten? Shane and Rick said they died of scratches, but I don't think they could find any visible scratches. If walkers killed them, why didn't they devour them? As said above, they surely wouldn't stay there and starve. Something sudden killed them.


Zombie TV show logic would tend to support the starved to death theory.

Real life logic suggests they would have made a food run even if for some unknown reason they felt compelled to guard that place. Cars, gas, guns, and food (and well stocked bars) are still plentiful, no reason to starve to death or be stuck in one spot.

Anyway, I am really liking this show even with all it's logic flaws. Can't wait for the next episode.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> He said (paraphrasing) "I know Maggie, I went to school with her, she wouldn't remember me... I know her father too" He didn't mention the farm, or where they lived though.


I forgot about him mentioning 'her father'. I am surprised though that if he went to school with her that he wouldn't have said something when he was at the farm or that it wouldn't have come up some other way. I am sure Herschel must have talked to him after working on his leg.

Herschel - "What's your name son?"

"George *******" (I can't remember his name)

"Oh, George, I remember watching your brother play basketball" or maybe "going hunting with your dad". It's a small frigging town. People know each other. Even if not by name, but by face.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

"Of the Marietta ********?"


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Zombie TV show logic would tend to support the starved to death theory.


Then why were Shane and Rick trying to determine their cause of death and never mentioned starvation? I contend there is something important about those men dying without being bitten.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I forgot about him mentioning 'her father'. I am surprised though that if he went to school with her that he wouldn't have said something when he was at the farm or that it wouldn't have come up some other way. I am sure Herschel must have talked to him after working on his leg.
> 
> Herschel - "What's your name son?"
> 
> ...


Tony and Dave had claimed to be from Pennsylvania or somewhere else up north. They had no reason to suspect that Randall was a local. And since Randall had been shooting at Rick and Rick's group probably hadn't been very hospitable to him (other than helping fix his leg), Randall probably wasn't about to volunteer the information that he recognized his surroundings. It wasn't until he felt like he had no other choice that he blurted out that info.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I sure would have said something before they put me in a car or to Herschel when he was fixing me up....which leads me to believe that he is lying.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

It was against his self-interest to tell them he knew Maggie from school. That is why he kept that information to himself until it slipped out in his desperate plea for them not to leave him. He made a tactical (maybe fatal) error in revealing that info because doing so meant they were going to have to correct the half-measure of just leaving him alive 18 miles away.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I sure would have said something before they put me in a car or to Herschel when he was fixing me up....which leads me to believe that he is lying.





tiams said:


> It was against his self-interest to tell them he knew Maggie from school. That is why he kept that information to himself until it slipped out in his desperate plea for them not to leave him. He made a tactical (maybe fatal) error in revealing that info because doing so meant they were going to have to correct the half-measure of just leaving him alive 18 miles away.


Exactly. As tiams said, as long as they didn't know he knew Maggie, they figured he wasn't a threat to them provided he couldn't find his way back to the farm. Knowing that he knows Maggie changes everything, as the only way to eliminate the threat he poses is to kill him.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I sure would have said something before they put me in a car or to Herschel when he was fixing me up....which leads me to believe that he is lying.


If he had told them before they put him in the car, Shane would have just tried to kill him sooner.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Exactly. As tiams said, as long as they didn't know he knew Maggie, they figured he wasn't a threat to them provided he couldn't find his way back to the farm. Knowing that he knows Maggie changes everything, as the only way to eliminate the threat he poses is to kill him.


the flip side to that is that he could also be seen as a friend/ally.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> the flip side to that is that he could also be seen as a friend/ally.


He's not going to be viewed as a friend/ally without earning that trust. It's not automatic simply because he says he knows Maggie. And so far, his actions (shooting at Rick from the roof) don't really warrant that trust.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> He's not going to be viewed as a friend/ally without earning that trust. It's not automatic simply because he says he knows Maggie. And so far, his actions (shooting at Rick from the roof) don't really warrant that trust.


I agree that it has to be earned, but I disagree with the camp that says he must die because he shot at our "heros".

If I was in his shoes...I would have said something way before they put me in that car so that I could attempt to build that trust.....I especially would have said something to Herschel while he was patching me up.

Assuming that what he is saying is true and not made up. If it's made up, then it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't say it at the farm.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I sure would have said something before they put me in a car or to Herschel when he was fixing me up....which leads me to believe that he is lying.





pmyers said:


> I agree that it has to be earned, but I disagree with the camp that says he must die because he shot at our "heros".
> 
> If I was in his shoes...I would have said something way before they put me in that car so that I could attempt to build that trust.....I especially would have said something to Herschel while he was patching me up.
> 
> Assuming that what he is saying is true and not made up. If it's made up, then it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't say it at the farm.


This is my thought also. Try to form some connection before being put in the trunk of the car.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll bet Randall overheard them talking when they were first bringing him back to the farm (or perhaps even when he was still stuck on the fence). They were arguing about whether it was safe to take him back to the farm as he would then know where they were. So they blindfolded him so he wouldn't know where they went. So all he knows is that there was some discussion about whether they should just kill him or leave him for the zombies and ultimately they decided to take him with them but only after taking precautions to ensure that he can't locate the farm on his own. If he suddenly pipes up and tells them that despite the blindfold, he knows where they are because he's from the area and knows Maggie's family, that's not likely to turn out good for him.


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

tiams said:


> Then why were Shane and Rick trying to determine their cause of death and never mentioned starvation? I contend there is something important about those men dying without being bitten.


I think it was Shane that started it by saying something like "Look no bites" and Rick maybe covering for the CDC "Whisper" by pointing and mumbling something about scratches.

The story of these guards would make a good Webisode.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I figured it was because Maggie was a hottie and he was just some underclassman nerd kid. Of course Maggie wouldn't remember him.


That's what I got from it. Also, many kids may recognize a schoolmate's parents but not know their first names. Herschel was probably just 
"Mr. Hot Maggie's Dad" to him.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Barmat said:


> I think it was Shane that started it by saying something like "Look no bites" and Rick maybe covering for the CDC "Whisper" by pointing and mumbling something about scratches.
> 
> The story of these guards would make a good Webisode.


Well if the "CDC whisper" was "you are all infected already and everyone turns into zombies when they die" that just doesn't work because those dead guards were just dead, they didn't die and turn into walkers. They were like all the dead bodies in the traffic jam. What would kill people who were just sitting in their cars? Again, nobody is going to die from starvation while staying in one location. You go scavenge for food.

I guess I'm a little hung up on this point, and nobody else seems to be, but I think it is key.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

tiams said:


> Well if the "CDC whisper" was "you are all infected already and everyone turns into zombies when they die" that just doesn't work because those dead guards were just dead, they didn't die and turn into walkers. They were like all the dead bodies in the traffic jam. What would kill people who were just sitting in their cars? Again, nobody is going to die from starvation while staying in one location. You go scavenge for food.
> 
> I guess I'm a little hung up on this point, and nobody else seems to be, but I think it is key.


No, they were walkers. Rick & Shane killed them.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

markz said:


> No, they were walkers. Rick & Shane killed them.


Oh, OK. I must have fallen asleep for a while! I thought they just found them lying there. So the only question is what turned them into walkers without being bitten. And why the non-walkers in the traffic jam died.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

markz said:


> No, they were walkers. Rick & Shane killed them.





tiams said:


> Oh, OK. I must have fallen asleep for a while! I thought they just found them lying there. So the only question is what turned them into walkers without being bitten. And why the non-walkers in the traffic jam died.


No, the 2 cops there were found just like that. They had a whole conversation about how there were no bite marks, but some scratches.

See like the above 50 posts


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

markz said:


> No, they were walkers. Rick & Shane killed them.


Negative...


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> No, the 2 cops there were found just like that. They had a whole conversation about how there were no bite marks, but some scratches.
> 
> See like the above 50 posts


Well, that's what I thought, that they were found like that. So I still say it is very significant. (see my post above re: I'm hung up on the point)


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> No, the 2 cops there were found just like that. They had a whole conversation about how there were no bite marks, but some scratches.
> 
> See like the above 50 posts


Wow, I must have been smoking something. I could have sworn they were the two that Rick & Shane first encountered. I thought Rick cut his hand and wiped the blood on the fence, then stabbed one in the head. Then he told Shane the next one was his, and Shane lifted his gun, but Rick made him use the knife. I swear they were wearing cop/guard uniforms.

If they just found them on the ground already dead, without bite marks, then there is no reason to wonder how they turned into walkers without being bitten. If they were just dead, then there is no mystery.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I agree with markz, that those were the walkers Rick and Shane lured to the fence, then stabbed. Why do you think they weren't those walkers?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

markz said:


> Wow, I must have been smoking something. I could have sworn they were the two that Rick & Shane first encountered. I thought Rick cut his hand and wiped the blood on the fence, then stabbed one in the head. Then he told Shane the next one was his, and Shane lifted his gun, but Rick made him use the knife. I swear they were wearing cop/guard uniforms.
> 
> If they just found them on the ground already dead, without bite marks, then there is no reason to wonder how they turned into walkers without being bitten. If they were just dead, then there is no mystery.


2 Dif sets of guards


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

markz said:


> If they just found them on the ground already dead, without bite marks, then there is no reason to wonder how they turned into walkers without being bitten. If they were just dead, then there is no mystery.


Yes, there is a mystery. 
1. If walkers killed them, then why didn't they in turn become walkers themselves? They obviously were not walkers.

2. If walkers didn't kill them, then what did?

I think we are supposed to think they died from being scratched by walkers. Which in itself is important new information - walkers can kill you just by scratching you. But again, why are they dead and not re-animated?

Plus, since they were just dead and not zombies, that disproves the theory that what the CDC guy told Rick was that they are all infected already and will turn into zombies no matter how they die.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

markz said:


> Wow, I must have been smoking something. I could have sworn they were the two that Rick & Shane first encountered. I thought Rick cut his hand and wiped the blood on the fence, then stabbed one in the head. Then he told Shane the next one was his, and Shane lifted his gun, but Rick made him use the knife. I swear they were wearing cop/guard uniforms


Nah, those were different guard walkers.  They were deanimated by the fence where Rick and Shane killed 'em. The pair lying down next to each other were definitely different walkers.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

justen_m said:


> Nah, those were different guard walkers.  They were deanimated by the fence where Rick and Shane killed 'em. The pair lying down next to each other were definitely different walkers.


They weren't walkers. Walkers walk.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

tiams said:


> They weren't walkers. Walkers walk.


Are you calling them liars? 

Personally, I'm in the "there were two guards, not four" camp. It didn't even occur to me that there was any possibility otherwise until this thread. Now that I think about it, though, maybe these two did die of starvation: they looked pretty gaunt.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

danterner said:


> Are you calling them liars?
> 
> Personally, I'm in the "there were two guards, not four" camp. It didn't even occur to me that there was any possibility otherwise until this thread. Now that I think about it, though, maybe these two did die of starvation: they looked pretty _*goth*_.


FYP...


----------



## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

AMC accidently spoils a characters death in promoting the season 2 blu ray.
I won't post a link, but if you really have to know, just google it.

Edit: or read the other thread, which I somehow missed.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Why did you have to say that? What you said is a spoiler in itself. Cheesus.


----------



## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

tiams said:


> Why did you have to say that? What you said is a spoiler in itself. Cheesus.


BS. I appreciate the warning, thank you trnsfrguy. :up:

Cue the whining about spoilers, time to close the thread. :down:


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

rimler said:


> BS. I appreciate the warning, thank you trnsfrguy. :up:


He could have warned us that there was a spoiler without telling us what it was. Inconsiderate.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Does a zombie die?


----------



## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

tiams said:


> He could have warned us that there was a spoiler without telling us what it was. Inconsiderate.


I don't see the problem. I never mentioned who the character was.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Of course it was the same two uniformed men. Rick killed one and told Shane to do the same. We did not see Shane kill. They then must have dragged the two dead from the gate and placed them side by side. You can see the stab wound in the head of one of them. More interesting was the empty food cans strewn on the ground, and the two incinerated corpses.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> FYP...


Bierboy with the assist.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

trnsfrguy said:


> I don't see the problem. I never mentioned who the character was.


You don't see a problem with announcing to us all that within the next 3 episodes a character will die? That is a spoiler.


----------



## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

brosebangen said:


> Male Strippers in Ireland, Dublin, Kilkenny, Carlow, Carrick on Shannon, Galway, Cork and Nationwide. Call now on 0877775705 for all your partying needs.


I just want to quote this for posterity.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

rimler said:


> Cue the whining about spoilers, time to close the thread. :down:


As if you have contributed anything of value to this thread.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

jgmack1 said:


> Of course it was the same two uniformed men. Rick killed one and told Shane to do the same. We did not see Shane kill. They then must have dragged the two dead from the gate and placed them side by side. You can see the stab wound in the head of one of them. More interesting was the empty food cans strewn on the ground, and the two incinerated corpses.


If Rick and Shane killed them, that would explain a lot.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I never doubted that the guards were the two that Rick and Shane killed. Seemed obvious to me. Shane was pointing out that they had no bites and was confused about why they were zombies.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Zevida said:


> I never doubted that the guards were the two that Rick and Shane killed. Seemed obvious to me. Shane was pointing out that they had no bites and was confused about why they were zombies.


Yeah I think you guys are right.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Why would they drag them anywhere? Not the same zombies...


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> Yeah I think you guys are right.


I am glad people are agreeing with me. I thought I was totally off or something.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Wow...I had no idea that there was a debate about those guards.

I absolutely assumed they were the 2 same guards that rick and shane killed at the fence. It never even entered my mind that they might be 2 different officers, which I still don't.


----------



## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Zevida said:


> I never doubted that the guards were the two that Rick and Shane killed. Seemed obvious to me. Shane was pointing out that they had no bites and was confused about why they were zombies.


This is how I remember it!

Gerry


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I think the show is leaning away from the idea that everybody is already infected (unless Lori's baby comes out a crawler). From the season premiere with all the corpse's in their cars, to the new idea that a scratch can infect and kill you, this seems like the _new idea_ they want us to have. Or it could be a big misdirection.....


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tiams said:


> Plus, since they were just dead and not zombies, that disproves the theory that what the CDC guy told Rick was that they are all infected already and will turn into zombies no matter how they die.


We already found that out with all the corpses on the freeway that weren't reanimated.

I'm in the "only 2 guards" camp, but having said that, I don't understand how Rick and Shane could determine if there were any bites. They didn't remove their clothes and do a thorough inspection. Their bodies were decomposed. How do they know what is and what isn't a bite?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> We already found that out with all the corpses on the freeway that weren't reanimated.


The freeway corpses are certainly problematic for the theory, but not fatally so. I can come up with a couple of explanations. Possibly:

1. The showrunner didn't think it through; or
2. The freeway corpses died prior to getting infected (cause of death unknown - maybe the military tried to stop the spread of the virus by gassing the people fleeing the city), therefore no reanimation; or
3. They were undead at one point, but after a while they returned to full-dead. Maybe zombies need food, and they were trapped in the cars long enough that they became dormant again.
4. Maybe they were naturally immune to the zombie virus
5. Maybe they are in fact zombies, but particularly slow moving ones. Remember the zombie inside the tank? Didn't it take a while before it noticed Rick?

My feeling is that the CDC secret is still in play, highway dead notwithstanding, and that #1 is the most likely explanation


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> I am glad people are agreeing with me. I thought I was totally off or something.


What has the one to do with the other?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What has the one to do with the other?


True!


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

This season has spun around 180 degrees from the first half. :up:


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

ozzman73 said:


> One thing I don't see is that there is any long term planning in this group because of their dysfunction. But basically you need:
> 
> ...


Forget long term planning. They don't seem to have enough common sense to survive.

Don't start a knock down, drag out fight in a place you haven't cleared and secured. Go back to that crossroads you stopped at earlier (or Herschel's farm) and fight there.

Don't scrounge in drug stores, etc., without clearing the place, finding & securing the exits, and have a guard.

Don't drive alone, at night, in a random direction for stupid reasons.

Most of their serious scrapes with walkers could have been avoided. _How are these the people who have survived?_ Rick may only have been awake a couple of weeks, but the rest survived a longer time without him. (I assume it took a while for Lori to sleep with Shane.) They should be better at the basic survival stuff by now.

They're figuring out _now_ that loud noises attract walkers? I'm pretty sure that's why one of them uses a crossbow. And there was that episode with the loud car that Glen liked...


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

tlc said:


> Forget long term planning. They don't seem to have enough common sense to survive.
> 
> Don't start a knock down, drag out fight in a place you haven't cleared and secured. Go back to that crossroads you stopped at earlier (or Herschel's farm) and fight there.
> 
> ...


This show takes place according to Kirkman in an alternate reality that never had a "Zombie" cultural reference point. That's why they're called walkers not zombies. Other survivors might call them different things.

Sooooo. no Romero Night of the living Dead, no Day of the Dead ect etc. ....

Sooooo..... Our group has no background on how to survive in this Zombie waste land. They don't seem to have any previous life skills that would help now. With out dough nuts Rick and Shane are only better shots then most people. Law enforcement doesn't prepare some one for Zombie infested survival. It teaches you how to take down bad living guys and write reports. There is no bad ass Navy Seal/Ranger/Green Barrett in this group

The Guards on the ground are the same Rick and Shane stabbed. The talk about the lack of bites is a significant plot point. Rick was covering by mentioning scratches.

This is not 28 Days Later(I wish it was). You do not become a zombie from contact with bodily fluids, scratches.



Spoiler



in the comic, after Shane is buried, Rick goes back and un-buries Shane and shoots him in the head to make sure he doesn't come back.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

jradosh said:


> This season has spun around 180 degrees from the first half. :up:


This was the first episode not preplaned by show runner Frank Darabont. Maybe AMC was right to fire him.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Barmat said:


> This show takes place according to Kirkman in an alternate reality that never had a "Zombie" cultural reference point. That's why they're called walkers not zombies. Other survivors might call them different things.
> 
> Sooooo. no Romero Night of the living Dead, no Day of the Dead ect etc. ....
> 
> Sooooo..... Our group has no background on how to survive in this Zombie waste land. They don't seem to have any previous life skills that would help now. With out dough nuts Rick and Shane are only better shots then most people. Law enforcement doesn't prepare some one for Zombie infested survival. It teaches you how to take down bad living guys and write reports. There is no bad ass Navy Seal/Ranger/Green Barrett in this group


Those are all fair points, but I don't think they're responsive to tlc's argument - the world our protagonists live in may be starting from 0 when it comes to pre-existing zombie knowledge, and our band of survivors may not have brought any special survival skills to the table from the start, but the fact is our survivors have survived where others have not and enough time has now passed that they should be smarter about some basic survival stuff even if it just gleaned from "on the job" training.

To that point, though, I would argue that this story is following one small group of survivors. They're not necessarily going to all make it (their failure to learn basic survival skills quickly enough may wind up doing some or all of them in, eventually), and maybe there are other more fit and smart survivors elsewhere who will make it longer than them. We're just not following the story of those other better survivors. We're following the stupid ones because, ultimately, stupid is more entertaining.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Barmat said:


> The Guards on the ground are the same Rick and Shane stabbed. The talk about the lack of bites is a significant plot point. Rick was covering by mentioning scratches.


Stabbed when? Did I miss something?

And if Rick _and_ Shane stabbed them why would Rick need to lie in front of Shane abut it? 

...

One think I thought about a few days after watching the episode was how Rick seemed 'taken' by the image of the two guards, dead but side-by-side whereas Shane was similarly fascinated by the solitary zombie out in the field... alone.

To me this speaks to their different mindsets. Rick wanting to stick together, even to an unhappy ending whereas Shane wants to survive, even if it means being totally alone.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into those scenes?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

jradosh said:


> Stabbed when? Did I miss something?
> 
> And if Rick _and_ Shane stabbed them why would Rick need to lie in front of Shane abut it?


Yes, we have been discussing it for several posts. Several of us, me included, think the two guards laying side by side are the first two walkers Rick & Shane saw when they got there. Rick cut his hand, wiped the blood on the fence, and then stabbed the walker in the head when he was trying to get to the blood. Then the second walker came out, and Rick had Shane do the same to him. After they stabbed them, they made the comment about them not having any bite marks, so maybe it was scratches that turned them.

Others here think there were two walker guards that Rick and Shane stabbed, and then two more dead guards laying on the ground.
...


jradosh said:


> One think I thought about a few days after watching the episode was how Rick seemed 'taken' by the image of the two guards, dead but side-by-side whereas Shane was similarly fascinated by the solitary zombie out in the field... alone.
> 
> To me this speaks to their different mindsets. Rick wanting to stick together, even to an unhappy ending whereas Shane wants to survive, even if it means being totally alone.
> 
> Or maybe I'm reading too much into those scenes?


I love your interpretation of those two scenes. I hadn't thought about it that way, but I think you are absolutely right.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

markz said:


> Yes, we have been discussing it for several posts. Several of us, me included, think the two guards laying side by side are the first two walkers Rick & Shane saw when they got there. Rick cut his hand, wiped the blood on the fence, and then stabbed the walker in the head when he was trying to get to the blood. Then the second walker came out, and Rick had Shane do the same to him. After they stabbed them, they made the comment about them not having any bite marks, so maybe it was scratches that turned them.
> 
> Others here think there were two walker guards that Rick and Shane stabbed, and then two more dead guards laying on the ground.


Ah... missed that discussion. Thanks 

I think they were the first two zombies that they took turns stabbing.



markz said:


> I love your interpretation of those two scenes. I hadn't thought about it that way, but I think you are absolutely right.


I don't know if it was intended that way, but it sure seemed like a strong juxtaposition of images to me.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

jradosh said:


> Ah... missed that discussion. Thanks
> 
> I think they were the first two zombies that they took turns stabbing.


I was arguing the other side, but now, I think I was wrong, and they were the two same walkers. I'm going to check sometime this weekend. The episode (every episode, actually) is on my TivoHD.

Yeah, I have the entire series on my Tivo and not gonna delete it, although I do watch Talking Dead after I watch. I should probably move it to my RAID at some point.


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Barmat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> in the comic, after Shane is buried, Rick goes back and un-buries Shane and shoots him in the head to make sure he doesn't come back.





Spoiler



I thought when Rick goes to dig up Shane he finds him as a zombie. So he figures out everyone is already infected.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> One think I thought about a few days after watching the episode was how Rick seemed 'taken' by the image of the two guards, dead but side-by-side whereas Shane was similarly fascinated by the solitary zombie out in the field... alone.
> 
> To me this speaks to their different mindsets. Rick wanting to stick together, even to an unhappy ending whereas Shane wants to survive, even if it means being totally alone.
> 
> Or maybe I'm reading too much into those scenes?


Very nice. I can see that being a nice subtle way to view the differences in them.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I just rewatched parts and they are definitely the same guards. They are killed at the fence. Off screen, they are dragged over to the grass so they can drive the car through to look for supplies. After scouting, they drive the car back out the gate and the zombie guards are gone, which is how we know they were moved.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

danterner said:


> Those are all fair points, but I don't think they're responsive to tlc's argument - the world our protagonists live in may be starting from 0 when it comes to pre-existing zombie knowledge, and our band of survivors may not have brought any special survival skills to the table from the start, but the fact is our survivors have survived where others have not and enough time has now passed that they should be smarter about some basic survival stuff even if it just gleaned from "on the job" training.


Yes I agree! :up:

While no one would have known how to handle walkers ahead of time, this bunch of people have been surviving for quite a while and certainly should know better by now how to avoid and/or deal with walkers.

Gerry


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay to help out, those were clearly the same two guards. I did some screenshots of them so you can see. 

http://i39.tinypic.com/28uosx.jpg


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Now the rest of my comments on the thread. Sorry so late, just watched the episode today. Went to catch up on it and it wasn't on my DVR. No idea why. So I downloaded it and then forgot to watch it.



T-Wolves said:


> Related to this episode -- I liked the song that played near the end:
> "Civilian" by Wye Oake.
> 
> I discovered that Amazon has the song as a *free *MP3 download here:
> http://www.amazon.com/Civilian/dp/B0058VIKLW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330317464&sr=8-1


Thank you! I was loving that song watching the show! :up:



Barmat said:


> I think it convinced Shane He needs to be the last man standing.


Yup. I agree with this 100%.



DreadPirateRob said:


> I *loved* Andrea laying into Lori though. That was awesome. I was kinda hoping she'd smack her too.


I don't necessarily side with Andrea and I can see both her and Maggie's side on that. However, I was smiling ear to ear when Andrea was telling Lori all about herself, especially the look on her face as she said "...boyfriend". Ha!



Test said:


> He seemed to enjoy killing the zombie girl a little too much





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, there were definite flashes of evil in his eyes when the boys weren't looking.


I don't know if I agree with that. I had to go back and rewatch after reading these two comments. I think it could have been that but could have also been the first time he'd been hand to hand combat with a zombie and just having gotten himself free in the nick of time, was high on adrenaline. I think the fact that he said "come on *****, let's see what you got" makes it seem the first but I'm still not convinced totally.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, there were definite flashes of evil in his eyes when the boys weren't looking.


Maybe he knew her pre-zombie.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

So has anyone done the "AMC Story Sync" thing while watching an episode?


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## Bwoodworth (Mar 5, 2012)

Hey ...dumb idea. What if, because of their proclivity toward liking/attacking/devouring human blood, one were to spray a group of walkers with human blood? The ensuing devouring of each other would worst case slow them down as they began to eat each other, and best case turn them upon themselves until they were a pile of armless leggless no longer"walkers". ? The blood can be taken from the group in small increments as ammo. An entire city can be taken out by a firetruck loaded with blood using the water cannon.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

danterner said:


> So has anyone done the "AMC Story Sync" thing while watching an episode?


I've done it for the last couple of episodes. It's pretty cool. They give you polls about judgement calls, replays of certain scenes, facts and trivia, and they also have a chat session going on.
The chat room is fast and furious. It's hard to keep up.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

trnsfrguy said:


> I've done it for the last couple of episodes. It's pretty cool. They give you polls about judgement calls, replays of certain scenes, facts and trivia, and they also have a chat session going on.
> The chat room is fast and furious. It's hard to keep up.


There's no denying, despite what many here at TCF complain about, this show is VERY popular...


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

A bit late to the discussion, but I thought there was an unusual attention to the burned walkers. That plus the discussion about how the guards became infected plus the attention given to the burning of the walkers on the farm makes me wonder if they aren't making the virus airborne while the corpses are burning. That is, if you breathe in the smoke you can become infected. Don't know if that's anywhere close to what they are going for but hats what it suggested to me.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I suspect in the end it will all tie into what the CDC guy whispered, and it will be some level of explanation for how the whole zombie thing works.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Barmat said:


> There is no bad ass Navy Seal/Ranger/Green Barrett in this group


I'd like to see different "pockets" every now and then (though it would completely ruin the flow of the series) where a Delta Force team or SEAL team has a stronghold somewhere. Do they actively patrol and look to eliminate walkers or do they practice escape and evade tactics, constantly on the move.


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