# Is TiVo reducing the guide updates to every few days ?



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

For a some time now I have noticed that the daily guide updates are not bringing in new guide data each day, today I ran a forced update and I should have had guide data to at least March 17th to 6:30 PM, but my guide data is only to March 15th to 6:30 PM. At one time if the update took place after 4PM EST I would guide to 6:30 PM 13 days out, now at this time I am only out 11 days with the 11th day going to 6:30 PM. Has anyone else seeing this ?


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I was letting this slide because of the SkipMode rollout before posting something about it, but TiVo has missed the daily guide updates for 4 out the last 10 days. For the first time in that stretch last night made two days in a row. I'm waiting to see if tonight makes 5 out of 11 and 3 days in a row.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I've been watching for two days. Nothing. This is not funny anymore.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

I suspect Tivo may be having major server issues. There are reported problems accessing Tivo accounts, and they are still enabling some Roamios for the skip mode, plus they may have underestimated the amount of network traffic due to all the updating necessary too keep the skip mode current. Just a guess though.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Looks like guide data is coming in now, so THIS TIME they've apparently avoided three days in a row.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Yeah, looks like someone just fed the hamsters.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Tivo has been taking some weekends off lately, judging from past threads. Sort of annoying.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> Looks like guide data is coming in now, so THIS TIME they've apparently avoided three days in a row.


Yes, I am the OP and my guide data did came in, only a two day halt.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

How big of a deal is this for you all? 

Admittedly for me it's not. A week out it is still pretty inaccurate that I usually don't pay much attention to it. (lots of shows with generic information)


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

waynomo said:


> How big of a deal is this for you all?
> 
> Admittedly for me it's not. A week out it is still pretty inaccurate that I usually don't pay much attention to it. (lots of shows with generic information)


LOL

I was wondering why this was a big deal as well.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

waynomo said:


> How big of a deal is this for you all?
> 
> Admittedly for me it's not. A week out it is still pretty inaccurate that I usually don't pay much attention to it. (lots of shows with generic information)


I do see the guide stop too soon. Some late night shows only have descriptions for a few days out. But some late night shows are on my To Do List without being new or they have generic descriptions. When I had a Rovi guide there would be periods with "no information" because there were also shows with information. Now, I just check System Information for the guide end date. If I see 12 days, everything is good. Sometimes it drops to 11 days. But 10 days, then the hamsters need food. This time the guide came back on a weekend. That's new. It's not a big deal. For those, like me, with mild OCD, there is always zap2it.com for accurate information.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

The issue for me is the random times guide data is updated. It should always be everyday at least once per day and always before 6 pm. It is just too random on when it makes a Service Connection. i have had to force connections to get the latest data for that evening. 

I have both a FiOS DVR and a Bolt so I can see the difference in guide data.

This needs to be fixed.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

This has caught me a couple times with sports, where info is generic or teams are TBD until too late. If they kept the data up to date before taking random weekends off it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Data has been slacking for at least a year.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

markjrenna said:


> The issue for me is the random times guide data is updated. It should always be everyday at least once per day and always before 6 pm. It is just too random on when it makes a Service Connection. i have had to force connections to get the latest data for that evening.
> 
> I have both a FiOS DVR and a Bolt so I can see the difference in guide data.
> 
> This needs to be fixed.


What needs to be fixed? What's wrong if sometime, or even if there is a policy change and we only get guide updates every other day? Every third day? Why does it have to be before 6?

My preference would be at least 7 days if guide data. That allows for tweaking our to do list once a week. 13 days vs 10 days. How does it impact anyone.


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## FitzAusTex (May 7, 2014)

I didn't get updates for three days this past Wednesday/Thursday/Friday/Saturday. It is a big deal to me, because I subscribe to Universal HD for Olympic Winter-type sports like Skiing. I manually check for updates around 6pm every day because due to weather conditions (this year lack of snow) races get postponed/canceled constantly, and I need updated guide data to update my OPs. This two or three delay has happened 3 or 4 times this year. Funny thing is that I checked Tivo app on my phone and saw updated info, but many repeated manual updates on my Roamio resulted in nothing.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Based on your recording habits it probably doesn't effect you.

But there have been times for me, as I said, that the guide data is not correct. It needs to be updated everyday before 6 pm so that any changes are captured for the evening.

If TiVo is supposed to be the best???? Than why does my FiOS DVR have correct guide data everyday and TiVo doesn't.

They both use Gracenotes, so it has to do with the frequency or lack there of, of the updates.



lew said:


> What needs to be fixed? What's wrong if sometime, or even if there is a policy change and we only get guide updates every other day? Every third day? Why does it have to be before 6?
> 
> My preference would be at least 7 days if guide data. That allows for tweaking our to do list once a week. 13 days vs 10 days. How does it impact anyone.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

markjrenna said:


> They both use Gracenotes, so it has to do with the frequency or lack there of, of the updates.


There are several possibilities:
Networks don't give Gracenote the data,
Gracenote doesn't send the data to TiVo,
TiVo ignores the data,
TiVo applies rules to the data,
and TiVo doesn't send the data to the boxes.

No way to tell which is true. Zap2it.com is usually more accurate, especially for the cable only networks.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

markjrenna said:


> Based on your recording habits it probably doesn't effect you.
> 
> But there have been times for me, as I said, that the guide data is not correct. It needs to be updated everyday before 6 pm so that any changes are captured for the evening.
> 
> ...


I see that with my FIOS DVR and Tivo as well.

It made sense with dial-up connections back in the year 2000 to only perform update calls every 28 hours, otherwise it would be constantly tying up the phone line.

But it's 2016 and that problem doesn't exist anymore.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

I deleted the SNL scheduled recording for this past Saturday because it was missing the new box. But it was new. Part of the problem is Tivo can't publish information it doesn't get but now I see they may be pushing guide data out slower it makes more sense. Anyway, I watched and enjoyed the sketch about Conservatives for [That big red-haired guy running for office]. Jonah Hill was the host. I'm not a fan. Not a big loss.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

chicagobrownblue said:


> I deleted the SNL scheduled recording for this past Saturday because it was missing the new box. But it was new. Part of the problem is Tivo can't publish information it doesn't get but now I see they may be pushing guide data out slower it makes more sense. Anyway, I watched and enjoyed the sketch about Conservatives for [That big red-haired guy running for office]. Jonah Hill was the host. I'm not a fan. Not a big loss.


Not a global issue: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10816991#post10816991

Orange.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> LOL
> 
> I was wondering why this was a big deal as well.


Because looking at how far the guide goes out is just the indicator of lack of updates. It will hardly affect anyone with regards to recording something 10 days out. But it does affect shows that update their guide data a few days before the program airs. So what will happen is shows will be recorded with generic guide data, wishlists will fail to record due to missing descriptions/data, etc. Hopefully, it is fixed for good before the NCAA tournament. Otherwise, there will be lots of issues with the guide data as the NCAA tournament requires daily changes to guide data.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

It affects me more than 10 days out with the way I use the guide data. In addition to letting OnePasses pick up recordings I manually browse the guide data for about 50 channels to see if there are other programs I'll want to record and/or setup OnePasses for, as well as push out scheduled recordings to newly acquired future airings. It takes much more time to sift through 3-4 days of guide data than it does to sift through one day. What business is it of these TiVo apologists how each individual uses their guide data and if the only thing these customers ask for in the technologically advanced 21st century is a consistent level of customer service? What's their financial or personal interest in belittling others' reasonable concerns?

By the way, it's not for lack of the data existing. When I spoke to TiVo during an earlier multiple-day outage period in January the data was up to date on the TiVo app and TiVo online. The TiVo rep insisted it should be up to date on the boxes as well and with no information as why it was occurring they started going down the standard path of blaming each individual's internal Ethernet network, (apparently coincidentally occurring for every TiVo customer in the country in spite of successful mothership connections), before I called BS.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't have hard data, but it seems to be it's been lagging behind in terms of providing the full 14 days for quite some time now. I go through my To-Do List once a week, and I usually can't get too far into the second week before the guide data ends. Same for scheduling debates and basketball games.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Awesome. In four years I have never received more than 12.5 days of guide listings. Checking zap2it.com I see it has 14 days ahead and one day back.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Just to be clear on my point. It's not the amount of days out but the accuracy of the current days data. Today there were OnePasses for news shows with guests I want to have recorded. If I did not force a connection before 10 am today, the TiVo would not have recorded those.

The randomness at when it updates is the issue.... for me. 

The connection for updated guide data needs to happen more than once and at a more consistent time each day.

I am really surprised that more don't see this as an issue.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

We PAY for guide data, it's really Tivo's *ONLY* product/service. They have an obligation to keep it updated and timely at all times.

*If* they are going to keep slacking at pushing out their only revenue-producing product/service, then they should expect even more complaints from people about paying for guide data in the first place.

This isn't a good way to attract new people with money to your service.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

markjrenna said:


> Just to be clear on my point. It's not the amount of days out but the accuracy of the current days data. Today there were OnePasses for news shows with guests I want to have recorded. If I did not force a connection before 10 am today, the TiVo would not have recorded those.
> 
> The randomness at when it updates is the issue.... for me.
> 
> ...


It's bad if today's data is wrong. Checking System Info I see that the indexing is done shortly after the download. Until that is done a 1P will not be accurate or will any last minute changes to the schedule. I expect those to be frequent for the next few months.

I don't see TiVo causing every box to call home at the same time. That would cause heavy server loads. Even using a distributed database might be too much. If the opposite procedure was used (like Rovi), then our boxes would not call home but have the updates pushed to them at, say, 2am. Someone would find fault with that, of course.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Shows with generic data will be recorded as new. You would miss a new show if it's time got moved after your last database update. That sometimes happens even when the data is updated daily.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

You see this, in my case, that is not true.

To be even more clear... I have OnePasses setup with PEOPLE. Not the shows. So when the news show in my case have generic data it will not record. Only when the guide data is updated with the PERSON in the description will the TiVo pick it up to record.

I really do hope I made myself clear.



ej42137 said:


> Shows with generic data will be recorded as new. You would miss a new show if it's time got moved after your last database update. That sometimes happens even when the data is updated daily.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ej42137 said:


> Shows with generic data will be recorded as new.


Not if you are using wishlists to record shows.


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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

rainwater said:


> Hopefully, it is fixed for good before the NCAA tournament. Otherwise, there will be lots of issues with the guide data as the NCAA tournament requires daily changes to guide data.


This was a problem with the PAC-12 tournament this weekend. I use a wishlist search to record specific teams. If the guide says "Conference Semi-final - TBA vs. TBA" or something like that, the wishlist won't pick it up.

I was around this weekend so I checked the To Do List mid-afternoon to see if that evening's game was scheduled to be recorded. It wasn't and the guide still said "TBA vs. TBA". I forced a guide update and eventually the listing was updated to include the team names and the program recorded without me manually scheduling it.

Yes, there are probably other approaches I could take. However, the wishlist team search approach works as long as the TiVo calls in frequently enough. I guess I'll need to keep a closer eye on everything the rest of the month.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

powrcow said:


> This was a problem with the PAC-12 tournament this weekend. I use a wishlist search to record specific teams. If the guide says "Conference Semi-final - TBA vs. TBA" or something like that, the wishlist won't pick it up.
> 
> I was around this weekend so I checked the To Do List mid-afternoon to see if that evening's game was scheduled to be recorded. It wasn't and the guide still said "TBA vs. TBA". I forced a guide update and eventually the listing was updated to include the team names and the program recorded without me manually scheduling it.
> 
> Yes, there are probably other approaches I could take. However, the wishlist team search approach works as long as the TiVo calls in frequently enough. I guess I'll need to keep a closer eye on everything the rest of the month.


Conference tournaments are harder because teams play every day if they advance so I will give TiVo a break on that one. The NCAA tournament is Thursday through Sunday and a team never plays two days in a row. In that case, TiVo really should pick up wishlist recordings for specific teams. But we will see.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

rainwater said:


> Not if you are using wishlists to record shows.


True enough.



markjrenna said:


> You see this, in my case, that is not true.
> 
> To be even more clear... I have OnePasses setup with PEOPLE. Not the shows. So when the news show in my case have generic data it will not record. Only when the guide data is updated with the PERSON in the description will the TiVo pick it up to record.
> 
> I really do hope I made myself clear.


Sorry, I don't conflate Wishlists and One Pass in my mind, but I suppose you could make the case that One Passes, Wishlists and repeating manual recordings are variations on a theme since they are all under control of the One Pass manager. I can certainly see that you're having problems if you're depending on Wishlists.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> True enough. Sorry, I don't conflate Wishlists and One Pass in my mind, but I suppose you could make the case that One Passes, Wishlists and repeating manual recordings are variations on a theme since they are all under control of the One Pass manager. I can certainly see that you're having problems if you're depending on Wishlists.


Yeah. That's the idea behind One Pass. Everything controlled from One Pass. Series, wish lists, streaming. All in one place.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> Sorry, I don't conflate Wishlists and One Pass in my mind, but I suppose you could make the case that One Passes, Wishlists and repeating manual recordings are variations on a theme since they are all under control of the One Pass manager. I can certainly see that you're having problems if you're depending on Wishlists.





TonyD79 said:


> Yeah. That's the idea behind One Pass. Everything controlled from One Pass. Series, wish lists, streaming. All in one place.


Except they aren't the same. While the auto-recording processes (I think there are three of them--OnePass, ARWL, Manual) are controlled under OnePass, they are very different in nature, and in their infrastructure. A true OP has different options than a WishList.

So while they may controlled in the same way, their creation and their functionality are not identical.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> This has caught me a couple times with sports, where info is generic or teams are TBD until too late. If they kept the data up to date before taking random weekends off it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Data has been slacking for at least a year.


Yeah the issue here is not that we're only getting 11-12 days now (on a regular basis), it's that the last-minute guide updates for stuff recording today are not being done.

That's a much bigger issue.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

The two should be separate data feeds. On the fly tweaks versus daily (or some other period) downloads. If they can do skip data on the fly, they can do schedule updates as well.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I still remember how they flubbed March Madness last year, with people missing second round games... While using MM as a sales gimmick on their site.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I still remember how they flubbed March Madness last year, with people missing second round games... While using MM as a sales gimmick on their site.


It may be even worse this year as it seems the actual updates happening on TiVo's end in getting the guide updates are more than the usual 24 hours apart.


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

Maybe they can have the people doing SkipMode push out an bracket update when each game is over.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

caughey said:


> Maybe they can have the people doing SkipMode push out an bracket update when each game is over.


TiVo has no mechanism in place to push out updates like that. TiVo schedules the boxes to call in, and during the call, they get all of the new guide updates since the last download. The problem is on TiVo's end, they aren't updated the guide data as often.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Tonight networks connections are taking forever.

Both my Bolt and Roamio Pro have been Loading for over the last two hours, are are still not finished. Something is up, connections usually take a several minutes on the Bolt, and less than 20 minutes on the Roamio.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

It's really very sad when the one service that you absolutely count on from Tivo has now gone unreliable.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

I thought it was just me. I have noticed that some days (or two) there are no updates. I've also noticed that listings for cable channels stop one to three days before broadcast TV channels (although both are posted on Tribune Media's Zap2It website). 

Is this a problem? Occasionally. More an annoyance. But the basic issue Tivo's subscription fees are not cheap. We pay for these listings and we are getting short-changed. Back in the day, there were inaccuracies in newspaper TV schedules, too. But I wasn't paying extra for those. The listings cost more than the box and I presume most of Tivo's profit is in listings, not boxes. So, they need to do it right. 

The pattern here is Tivo adding stuff I don't want and didn't ask for as the basic functionality declines in quality.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

It's not just you. I'm not into basketball, but zap2it has almost finished with the Round 2 NCAA teams. TiVo has only finished with the Round 1 teams and has no Round 2 teams. If I had money on the brackets, I would be upset. Round 2 starts tomorrow at noon.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

It is bad when my fios Dvr has updated that TiVo does not. 

I don't give a damn about 12 days from now. That will take care of itself but TiVo should have the daily fixes that everyone else has. 

Sad thing is that the iPhone app has the data.

ETA: a forced update just now brought the data in. That's tight. Today's games were set late Thursday night.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

You see this is EXACTLY my issue. FiOS has the correct data. Both FiOS and TiVo use Gracenotes. FiOS every day at the same time, 6 am or so updates the guide on our boxes with current data. How do I know this? I have BOTH a FiOS DVR and a Bolt. Now with TiVo, the guide update connection is some random time between 22 and 26 hours.

So... if the TiVo makes a connection to get guide data on Monday at 4 pm and TiVo gets the new data at 5 pm Monday, guess what? You still have old data. Secondly the next connection doesn't happen again at the worst 26 hours later, that's 10 pm Tuesday... It's past prime time and any changes made in gude data affecting Monday and Tuesday.... We Don't Get!

This process is broken and needs to change ASAP!



TonyD79 said:


> It is bad when my fios Dvr has updated that TiVo does not.
> 
> I don't give a damn about 12 days from now. That will take care of itself but TiVo should have the daily fixes that everyone else has.
> 
> ...


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

markjrenna said:


> You see this is EXACTLY my issue. FiOS has the correct data. Both FiOS and TiVo use Gracenotes. FiOS every day at the same time, 6 am or so updates the guide on our boxes with current data. How do I know this? I have BOTH a FiOS DVR and a Bolt. Now with TiVo, the guide update connection is some random time between 22 and 26 hours.
> 
> So... if the TiVo makes a connection to get guide data on Monday at 4 pm and TiVo gets the new data at 5 pm Monday, guess what? You still have old data. Secondly the next connection doesn't happen again at the worst 26 hours later, that's 10 pm Tuesday... It's past prime time and any changes made in gude data affecting Monday and Tuesday.... We Don't Get!
> 
> This process is broken and needs to change ASAP!


I feel for you, but I have never seen a scheduled connection after 6pm Eastern. VCM is a 24/7 operation and nobody really knows what it is, but it's not guide updates. I think that 6pm to 3am is never used. But I can't prove it either.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

It's not VCM. Guide data is updated when the TiVo makes a Service Connection and it's randomly every 22 to 26 hours.

Try this. At 6 pm, or later in the evening, force a Service Connection. You will indeed get new updated guide data.



JoeKustra said:


> I feel for you, but I have never seen a scheduled connection after 6pm Eastern. VCM is a 24/7 operation and nobody really knows what it is, but it's not guide updates. I think that 6pm to 3am is never used. But I can't prove it either.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Tivo has a mechanism to force connections and the VCM is probably it. But they can't force a million connections at once, either, and the VCM isn't particularly necessary for this issue.

I agree in principle, if there's data they can't update early enough in advance anymore then the call cycles should be sped up.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

markjrenna said:


> It's not VCM. Guide data is updated when the TiVo makes a Service Connection and it's randomly every 22 to 26 hours.
> 
> Try this. At 6 pm, or later in the evening, force a Service Connection. You will indeed get new updated guide data.


I can usually force a connection after 3:30pm Eastern and get new data if there is data to get. Right now my guide goes out 12 days. The definition of 12 days is subject to debate. I will gladly give up the two days back to gain two days forward. TMS (zap2it) goes out to 4/3 (Sunday). That's (to me) a 14 day guide. It really ends on 4/4 at 2pm, where my guide ends at 4/2 at 2pm. But it's not a constant, as others find their data goes to 6pm.

I remember when I had a 8 day Rovi guide. It ended at 2am on the 9th day. It also extended its guide internally, using the incoming content to fill out the guide, not extend it. That would, on failing days, give you a whole day of "to be announced" listings. It was normal to wake up and check the guide for success.

I did force a connection at 9am today. It didn't affect my scheduled update at 5:14pm, but it did fill out my 4/2 data. There was a "motive" for this.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

markjrenna said:


> It's not VCM. Guide data is updated when the TiVo makes a Service Connection and it's randomly every 22 to 26 hours.


I don't believe it's random. I think it's always been 24 hours after the last update finishes processing. On my Roamio, the last connection was at 3:10pm yesterday and my next one is scheduled for 3:56pm tomorrow.

Note that my 2 S3's which are much slower than the Roamio and take longer for the post-processing tend to slip by 2 hours and 12-20 minutes each day (24 hours plus 2 hours and 12-20 minutes).

Scott


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

I am bringing up this old thread because my Roamio guide data is now only going out to a full day Tuesday August 16th, and to about 6:30 Pm on Wed August 17, it should be out to Sat. August 20th, and tonight go out to Sunday August 21 !! Are others having this problem ???

Sorry just saw the post from PSU_Sudzi I guess we crossed.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Now down to 8 days, this is the worst it's been yet and at a horrible time with the Olympics on.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Now down to 8 days, this is the worst it's been yet and at a horrible time with the Olympics on.


Update today pushed it to 13 days.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

My guide only goes out 8 days on a Roamio base model 846. It's doing a scheduled connection right now so we'll see where it is after that. 8 days is atrocious, at least when it's always been 12 days up til now.

EDIT: Just noticed the other, much more timely and informative thread on this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542428

It appears this is issue is known to TiVo.


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