# Our Tivo Died In One Year



## Wubba1108 (Jan 28, 2006)

Just a head's up to other Tivo users or potential users. We bought our Tivo approximately one year ago....and it DIED this morning. Called Customer Support and the best they could do was to recommend that we buy a new one. So, Tivo officially wins the award for having the lowest self-life of ANY electronic equipment in our home.

Congrats, Tivo. We'll be sure to pass along news of this distinction to our network of peers and family.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

On the other hand, my friends and I bought 9 TiVos between us between 5.5 and 6 years ago. Zero failures so far. They also have some newer TiVos. No failures among these youngsters either.

It's strange that they only recommended a new one. TiVo will repair/replace for a fee, and the most failure prone part - the disk, is easily replaced by the owner.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Wubba1108 said:


> Congrats, Tivo. We'll be sure to pass along news of this distinction to our network of peers and family.


Oh no, TiVo is doomed!!!


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## Xadrian (Jan 28, 2006)

I bought my series 1 TiVo ~6 years ago and it's still truckin' along fine. I'll finally replace it once the series 3 are out. My dad's TiVo (bought at the same time) had hardware troubles after a year and a half, but they never suggested buying a new one - they offered to repair it. And if you were still under the 1 year mark, I believe it's covered under warranty. Electronics fail. Much more often if they have HDDs in them. Sounds like you just got unlucky.


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

Wubba, put it up on eBay. There are many people who can repair it who would be willing to bid on it.

Or, if you want to fix it, get a hard drive of equal or greater size and visit http://tivo.upgrade-instructions.com/index.php


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

Wubba,

Sorry about the dead TiVo and the bad customer service. Most TiVo's can be fixed pretty cheaply if you are interested. The most common part to fail is the HD which is easy to replace yourself. Let us know what type of problem you're having and most likely we can get you back up and going quickly.

I know it sucks to have something break and it would piss me off too, but if you get over your anger and want to try and fix it, let us know. Many times the people on here are more knowledgeable and quicker than official TiVo support.

-Dylan


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

my tivo upgrade lasted about 1 year, do I blame Tivo for it? nope. 

do I blame weaknees? nope

do I blame maxtor? nope.

I have plenty of technology that is over 5 years old that is going strong. 

My first Tivo 80 hours is still running after 3 years.

It's just one of the those things, electronics are sensitive things subject to lots of reasons for failure.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Wubba1108 said:


> Congrats, Tivo. We'll be sure to pass along news of this distinction to our network of peers and family.


Huh, I would have thought the TiVo rep would have been won over by your charm and positive attitude. At least here you got the correct advice that a TiVo usually goes bad by losing the Hard drive and is easy to fix


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## gregmark (Jan 8, 2006)

It is not "easy to fix". At least, I object to that statement when it omits a qualifying clause such as "for the technically inclined (if not skilled)". Tivo the company should probably do something more for folks like Wubba. Most users of computers or electronics are lazy, demanding, and *extremely* likely to not know that a Tivo has a hard drive. Successful tech companies understand this and have something better to say then "Ooh.. yeah... just buy a new one". If nothing else, the rep could have told Wubba to check out the tivocommnity period com (five posts, here I come!).


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

gregmark said:


> It is not "easy to fix". At least, I object to that statement when it omits a qualifying clause such as "for the technically inclined (if not skilled)". Tivo the company should probably do something more for folks like Wubba. Most users of computers or electronics are lazy, demanding, and *extremely* likely to not know that a Tivo has a hard drive. Successful tech companies understand this and have something better to say then "Ooh.. yeah... just buy a new one". If nothing else, the rep could have told Wubba to check out the tivocommnity period com (five posts, here I come!).


What we dont know, is if the OP had a monthly subscription and a 40 hour TiVo. if he did then just buying a new TiVo at 39 or 50 bucks and doing monthly on it would be cheaper and easier.

TiVo will repair but usually charges 90$ for it.

as for easy to fix yourself, you can order a large drive from weakknees and simply swap it out with the drive in the box. done in 10 minutes and my non tech using dad could do it with the simple instructions included


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

cynthetiq said:


> my tivo upgrade lasted about 1 year, do I blame Tivo for it? nope.
> 
> do I blame weaknees? nope
> 
> ...


:up: :up: :up:

Like others in this thread, I bought a series 1 6 years ago, and it is going strong. After 2 years, I sold it to my BIL, who then sold it to a relative of his, and none of us lost value in it.

My two more recent dtivo units are still going strong, and one has the well-documented over-heating problem. A $10 fan has taken care of that.

I'm sorry you are having problems, and I hope that they get fixed. I imagine that they will, now that you have posted it here.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

As paradox as it sounds, CS rep was probably right. Unless OP has lifetime it is cheaper to buy a new one than to repair the old one. TiVos are more or less disposable now days much like small screen Tvs, VCRs and DVD players. Unfortunately, with lower prices comes cheaper manufacturing and QC. I also have 6 year old and 3 year old TiVos that are working fine, but few months ago it took me 3 trips to the store to get 2 working DirecTiVos (3 out 5 I tried were defective).


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## gregmark (Jan 8, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> as for easy to fix yourself, you can order a large drive from weakknees and simply swap it out with the drive in the box. done in 10 minutes and my non tech using dad could do it with the simple instructions included


But you have to know that such a thing is possible in the first place. My non-tech dad, who would also be able to install a weakness drive in 10 minutes with the enclosed instructions, would probably never think to slug "fix my tivo drive" into a Google search. More likely, he would just accept "just buy a new one" at face value and curse Tivo.

I do agree though that the OP is probably simplifying his customer support interaction somewhat, if not entirely. Number one rule of customer support? Trust me on this: customers always lie.

Having said that, I just think it's (inadvertently) flippant to tell Tivo layity that any solution that requires unscrewing a chassis is easy.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

gregmark said:


> Having said that, I just think it's (inadvertently) flippant to tell Tivo layity that any solution that requires unscrewing a chassis is easy.


You could always get the neighbor's kid to do it. Back in the early days when the upgrade process was little documented and didn't have ready-made solutions like Weaknees, it was common for people here to upgrade other people's TiVos for a beer. If it's not easy for you, there's a kid nearby who will think it's a piece of cake.

If the OP knows the problem is the disk, and feels he can't unscrew the chassis, he should let us know where he lives. I'll do it for a beer if I'm near.

Samo may still be right though - depending on what rebate deals are out there, sometimes you can get a TiVo for less than the cost of the disk inside it.


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

he was smart enough to find this forum.. I'd like to suggest that he could be smart enough to read it -- to know that there is an HD in it and that Weaknees (a sponsor of this forum) could replace it..

Yes - the TIVO CS on this was maybe a little lacking.. but honestly.. if it's a monthly sub on a 40 hr box.. he got the right advice. 

Smart enough to whine.. but not smart enough to read.


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## lethcoeb (Apr 19, 2002)

My TiVo has died twice - the first time after about 1.5 years of service, and the second time after a year of service with a new hard drive.

Being a tech weenie, I gladly replaced the hard drives myself (and upgraded each time), but his/her point is clear and legit to me.

Hard drives fail, and often. The common user, who spends $150 - $300 for a nice little piece of electronic hardware, usually does not have to worry about it failing inside a year. Heck, how many of us have stereos, or microwaves, or clock radios fail at such a rate?

Granted, the hard drive is always on and spinning (or at least usually on and spinning), so that becomes the typical failure point.

But picking on a guy/girl with a legitimate complaint - Hey, my TiVo died, and tech support is telling me to treat it like a toaster! - is, in my mind, not a way to make converts to TiVo or the technology.

The thing I like about my Time Warner HD DVR is that if it acts squirrelly, I can always hand it back for a brand spanking new one (or at least someone's old one that works). As for my TiVo, next time the HD(s) die(s), I'm out another $200 or more bucks, plus the time it takes for Weaknees to ship a new HD (or two).


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

lethcoeb said:


> Heck, how many of us have stereos, or microwaves, or clock radios fail at such a rate?


On a more apples to apples comparison: Back in the good old days I've lost as many as 4 VCRs within a year. I once had the same one die 3 times in 18 months. That one cost $899 but that was back when $899 was still real money 

Rentals and leases do take care of you in case of trouble, but it's usually all factored into the rent you pay. (Of course, you'll pay a lot if you put your TiVo on monthly too and I don't recommend that either.)


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I'm surprised at all the talk about replacing the hard drive - the OP didn't mention what type of failure it is. Hey, OP, let us know and we'll try and help out!


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

Hard drive is the assumption because hard drive failures are the vast majority of TiVo failures. You've got the only moving parts in the hard drive. Mechanical devices break down -- especially mechanical devices on which maintenance cannot be performed. How long would a car last if you couldn't perform any type of maintenance on it?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

It's been mentioned in other threads, but I'll mention it here too: You can get a TiVo for $20 after rebate at CompUSA.

Of course some people don't like fussing with rebates, but to send it back to TiVo you'd have to package and ship it and the shipping alone would probably cost $20.

If the CSR knew this (and hopefully mentioned it) then a new TiVo is really hard to beat for a monthly customer.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dgh said:


> It's been mentioned in other threads, but I'll mention it here too: You can get a TiVo for $20 after rebate at CompUSA.
> 
> Of course some people don't like fussing with rebates, but to send it back to TiVo you'd have to package and ship it and the shipping alone would probably cost $20.
> 
> If the CSR knew this (and hopefully mentioned it) then a new TiVo is really hard to beat for a monthly customer.


Best Buy is selling them for $20, too (at least the ones in my area are), though they are not advertising it. Or get one of the refurbs on tivo.com for $30 and get the instant rebate by paying for a year up front. Both options are cheaper than repairing the box.

If you currently have lifetime service, and don't want to try to fix it, you will be able to sell it on eBay and recoup most of your money.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dgh said:


> On a more apples to apples comparison: Back in the good old days I've lost as many as 4 VCRs within a year. I once had the same one die 3 times in 18 months. That one cost $899 but that was back when $899 was still real money


On an even more apples to apples comparison we could talk computers. I've had one main board go bad, but long ago lost count of the hard drives that died. And I've also had hard drives last for quite a few years of daily use. Some of that is just the luck of the draw, but in my experience the primary reason for drive failure is the environment (or the inside of the box) getting too warm. Putting a TiVo on a TV or under a TV or in an enclosed cabinet -- where other electronics would probably be fine -- is asking for trouble.


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

I've own 3 tivos.

A Series 1, purchased in October 2000, and two Series 2, purchased later.

Not one has failed. If they ever do, it will likely be the harddrive.

You probably had a harddrive failure. They happen. They happen on PCs. You just happen to get a one that failed earlier than expected. 

If you have a lifetime subscription, you don't want to replace the box unless you send it in to get repaired for $100...I would highly suggest that you buy an "upgraded" drive online...If you don't like the idea of opening your own box, you can send it it and they'll do the work for you.

You purchased the unit over a year ago, and given your complaint I assume you didn't buy any warranty extension, etc.


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## MaryT (Dec 3, 2001)

I made a rule for myself a long time ago ...

Don't reply to threads from newbies blasting away the product.

I beleive some/many of them have other agendas.

If they really wanted help they would ask for it and not start complaining.


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## TommyTutone (Sep 20, 2003)

Just a quick question/hunch. Is your Tivo connected to a wireless network via Netgear WG111 adapter? I've been reading here and there about others who have had their Tivos freeze up on Saturday (myself included) who use this exact adapter.

And before anyone asks, I am using the one with the correct serial numbers.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

lethcoeb said:


> As for my TiVo, next time the HD(s) die(s), I'm out another $200 or more bucks, plus the time it takes for Weaknees to ship a new HD (or two).


Being a newbie myself while evaluating TiVo, this was one of my concerns as well.

I like the lifetime subscription, expensive, but it makes sense in the long run. But if the unit dies, or you want to upgrade it, you are out of luck unless you dish out more $cash$.

Also, anything over 3 years old in the tech arena is pretty much outdated. I would be great if the TiVo lifetime subscription could be moved from old hardware to new, but No!


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> I like the lifetime subscription, expensive, but it makes sense in the long run. But if the unit dies, or you want to upgrade it, you are out of luck unless you dish out more $cash$.


Contrary to what the OP said, TiVo will repair/replace units. Also, people can and do upgrade units, and the resale value of lifetime is close to 100% If you're unusually scared, many retailers will be happy to sell you an extended warrantee. I don't recommend them though.



joe123j said:


> Also, anything over 3 years old in the tech arena is pretty much outdated.


The CE world doesn't really move that fast. Most people I know bought their last VCR in the 80s. I was helping some friends install a new HDTV last week and it involved removing the 1990 TV, hooking the new one to their 1981 VCR and their 1985 LD player, and ~1980ish receiver. If you think about the evolution of each of those devices, they really didn't have any great need to update them. Likewise, you've just discovered TiVo even though it's over 6 years old. There may be some new gee wiz features in 3 years, but most people won't even notice until really major stuff happens. But if you must be on the absolute bleeding edge, be sure to take advantage of the high resale value of lifetime service.


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## GageShaye (Jan 31, 2006)

I posted this elsewhere, but thought it fit in well here. I could live with a YEAR before breakdown, but not this crap:

We've had TiVo for just over 3 MONTHS. Last week, it started "freezing". We'd turn on the t.v. then hit the tv input button to use TiVo, and the picture would either be frozen, or there'd be some odd screen with just black and green squiggles. It has missed recording some shows we had scheduled (Like 24! I can NOT believe it. I am in agony.)
I called Customer Support. I was told that I would be given a case number so that if it "keeps" happening, they'd have to replace the unit. I said, "It already 'keeps' happening." So the guy told me they'd replace it with a refurbished unit....for $49! Hello! I paid $49 for the NEW unit (after rebate) just over 3 months ago! If it'd have happened in the first 30 days they'd send a new one for free, then between 31 and 90 days I'd get a refurbished unit for free, but since it is over (just barely!), I have to pay $49 to get a refurbished unit! And what they heck would they do if I had a "lifetime subscription"? I know that I didn't go that option to start with because it was "lifetime of the UNIT", but if I had? I'd have paid $300 for something that lasted 3 months?! So, what do I do? I am mad as heck. Can this be fixed? Or do I report this to the Better Business Bureau?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

GageShaye said:


> And what they heck would they do if I had a "lifetime subscription


etc.

I believe most of the questions have been answered in your original thread now.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

GageShaye said:


> And what they heck would they do if I had a "lifetime subscription"? I know that I didn't go that option to start with because it was "lifetime of the UNIT", but if I had? I'd have paid $300 for something that lasted 3 months?! So, what do I do? I am mad as heck. Can this be fixed? Or do I report this to the Better Business Bureau?


Not much you can do except for sending TiVo $49. Reporting to BBB wouldn't do you any good at all. You owe TiVo for 9 more months of service regardless if your TiVo works or not. You can try to protest charges, but I bet the terms of your rebate specifically state that you have to keep service for at least a year. So your choices are to either pay $49 and enjoy TiVo for the rest of the year or pay for service you don't receive. And to answer your question about lifetime. If you had lifetime sub your sub would have been transferred to the replacement unit.
Edit. Didn't read your original thread, so I didn't realize that lifetime question has been answered. Before you send your unit for repairs, make sure you do few things. First to "Clear and delete" everything in setup menu. That will take care of any corrupted data files. If that doesn't work try to repeat "Guided setup". Do it twice of 3 times, don't ask me why - I have no idea, but that is what fixed my TiVo 5 years ago and it still works fine.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

GageShaye said:


> And what they heck would they do if I had a "lifetime subscription"? I know that I didn't go that option to start with because it was "lifetime of the UNIT", but if I had? I'd have paid $300 for something that lasted 3 months?!


As long as it's less then a year old they would transfer the lifetime service to the "refurbished" unit for you at no further cost. If it was over a year old then you'd be out of luck. (although you'd probably still be able to sell it to someone on eBay for at, or near, the cost of the lifetime service since this is a fixable problem by someone who knows what they're doing.)

Dan


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Dan203 said:


> As long as it's less then a year old they would transfer the lifetime service to the "refurbished" unit for you at no further cost. If it was over a year old then you'd be out of luck. (although you'd probably still be able to sell it to someone on eBay for at, or near, the cost of the lifetime service since this is a fixable problem by someone who knows what they're doing.)
> 
> Dan


Dan are you sure? Did TiVo change the policy on lifetime? My understanding was that as long as your original box is repaired or replaced by authorized service there are no restrictions to lifetime transfer regardless if box is under warranty or not.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Actually I think you're right. However if I remember correctly after the year is up the repair is prohibitively expensive. So it might not make much sense to do after the year is up. 

Dan


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## TommyTutone (Sep 20, 2003)

GageShaye said:


> I posted this elsewhere, but thought it fit in well here. I could live with a YEAR before breakdown, but not this crap:
> 
> We've had TiVo for just over 3 MONTHS. Last week, it started "freezing". We'd turn on the t.v. then hit the tv input button to use TiVo, and the picture would either be frozen, or there'd be some odd screen with just black and green squiggles. It has missed recording some shows we had scheduled (Like 24! I can NOT believe it. I am in agony.)
> I called Customer Support. I was told that I would be given a case number so that if it "keeps" happening, they'd have to replace the unit. I said, "It already 'keeps' happening." So the guy told me they'd replace it with a refurbished unit....for $49! Hello! I paid $49 for the NEW unit (after rebate) just over 3 months ago! If it'd have happened in the first 30 days they'd send a new one for free, then between 31 and 90 days I'd get a refurbished unit for free, but since it is over (just barely!), I have to pay $49 to get a refurbished unit! And what they heck would they do if I had a "lifetime subscription"? I know that I didn't go that option to start with because it was "lifetime of the UNIT", but if I had? I'd have paid $300 for something that lasted 3 months?! So, what do I do? I am mad as heck. Can this be fixed? Or do I report this to the Better Business Bureau?


Were you hooked up to a wireless adapter? If so, what kind? Have you tried rebooting it WITHOUT the adapter plugged in?


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## GageShaye (Jan 31, 2006)

Yes, I am hooked up to a wireless adapter! (I'll have to look when I go downstairs later. I'm pretty sure it is a Netgear....)
Would that maybe be the problem? I've always been hooked up that way, so I hadn't thought that this could cause a problem now...


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## TommyTutone (Sep 20, 2003)

GageShaye said:


> Yes, I am hooked up to a wireless adapter! (I'll have to look when I go downstairs later. I'm pretty sure it is a Netgear....)
> Would that maybe be the problem? I've always been hooked up that way, so I hadn't thought that this could cause a problem now...


I cannot speak with certainty, but I have a correct versioned WG111 wireless adapter and had the same problems as you (and several other people it seems). I attributed it to the hard drive, as others have suggested, and went out and bought a new Tivo. It turns out that the adapter causes the new one to die as well, yet it works perfectly when the adapter is unplugged.

The thing is, the adapter worked perfectly for 4 months, and on Saturday it 'died' out of the blue. I am of the belief that Tivo sent out a software update Friday night, and it has screwed up the compatibility with my adapter.

I'd like to see if someone from Tivo can comment on this, but yes, check to see what wireless adapter you have.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

GageShaye said:


> I posted this elsewhere, but thought it fit in well here. I could live with a YEAR before breakdown, but not this crap:
> 
> We've had TiVo for just over 3 MONTHS. Last week, it started "freezing". We'd turn on the t.v. then hit the tv input button to use TiVo, and the picture would either be frozen, or there'd be some odd screen with just black and green squiggles. It has missed recording some shows we had scheduled (Like 24! I can NOT believe it. I am in agony.)


That is/was my fear while evaluating TiVo and the lifetime subscription.

The average life span for these kinds of electronics is about 3 years. Most disk drives average about that long before they break down.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

joe123j said:


> That is/was my fear while evaluating TiVo and the lifetime subscription.
> 
> The average life span for these kinds of electronics is about 3 years. Most disk drives average about that long before they break down.


If the disk drive goes, you replace it -- the lifetime service on the box is still in force.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

ChuckyBox said:


> If the disk drive goes, you replace it -- the lifetime service on the box is still in force.


You have to pay for that. If you replace it yourself (correct me if I a wrong), you void the warranty.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> The average life span for these kinds of electronics is about 3 years. Most disk drives average about that long before they break down.


If you're loosing electronics and disk drives that frequently, you should check your power or add UPS/surge protectors. No one I know (in several parts of the US) burns up electronic products anywhere near that quickly. My parents live in a high thunderstorm/power failure area and I don't think they own any electronic product under 5 years old. The PC that I gave to them in 1995 still runs fine though the bearings in the disk have gotten louder then when they were new.



joe123j said:


> You have to pay for that. If you replace it yourself (correct me if I a wrong), you void the warranty.


How about if it's under warranty, you let them replace it, otherwise you replace it. Of course, some people upgrade them immediately anyway since the disk comes with it's own warranty anyway, and that's about all that's ever likely to fail.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> IHow about if it's under warranty, you let them replace it, otherwise you replace it. Of course, some people upgrade them immediately anyway since the disk comes with it's own warranty anyway, and that's about all that's ever likely to fail.


If you open the TiVo box yourself, do you void the TiVo warranty on that unit and put your TiVo lifetime subscription in jeopardy?

When I called TiVo and ask this same question, the agent very clearly told me that TiVo would void my unit immeditaly if I replaced anything inside the TiVo box. Was the TiVo agent wrong?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

The agent is right - TiVo has a typical CE device warranty that doesn't encourage people to poke around inside. However this in no way makes your first sentence true. The warranty ends when it ends. Your sub status has nothing to do with that.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> The agent is right - TiVo has a typical CE device warranty that doesn't encourage people to poke around inside. However this in no way makes your first sentence true. The warranty ends when it ends. Your sub status has nothing to do with that.


So let's see. I buy a TiVo box with lifetime subscription and I open the box to install a larger disk drive like you and so many here say to do.

3 months later, the TiVo box is having problems which I cannot fix (like it wont start up). I cannot take it back to the retailer because it is over 30 days. I cannot send it back to TiVo to get repaired because I voided the TiVo contract since I open the TiVo box.

What happens to my lifetime subscription which is tied directly to my now dead TiVo box which TiVo wont fix?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Again - you only voided the *warranty* which gets you a free repair for a limited time. Everything else is still on the table.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> Again - you only voided the *warranty* which gets you a free repair for a limited time. Everything else is still on the table.


Again, if I modify the TiVo box and it breaks 3 months later. Have I lost my $300 lifetime subscription?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> Again, if I modify the TiVo box and it breaks 3 months later. Have I lost my $300 lifetime subscription?


Again, no.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> Again, no.


So what will my $300 dollar lifetime subscription do for me if I cannot use it since it is directly tied to a broken TiVo box?


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

Only way you lose the $300 is if the motherboard of the tivo gets fried... basically it's the lifetime of the board. All other items within the box are pretty much replaceable by anyone and parts are readily available.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> So what will my $300 dollar lifetime subscription do for me if I cannot use it since it is directly tied to a broken TiVo box?


I would recommend having the box fixed. You do not need a warranty to have something fixed. A warranty only gets it fixed at the manufacturer's expense. Do you honestly not know that?


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> I would recommend having the box fixed. You do not need a warranty to have something fixed. A warranty only gets it fixed at the manufacturer's expense. Do you honestly not know that?


So if the motherboard goes bad on my TiVo, I can somehow get this replaced and I will not loose my $300 lifetime subscription?

Also, why are you trying to circumvent TiVo written policies? If I am honest and I tell TiVo that I modified my TiVo box, they can cancel my lieftime subscription, no?


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

It won't do anything for you if you don't have the box repaired. Will a car that no longer runs do anything for you? Of course not, it's common sense that it doesn't do anything until you repair it.

Read my previous post. The LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION is tied to the LIFETIME of the MOTHERBOARD.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> Also, why are you trying to circumvent TiVo written policies? If I am honest and I tell TiVo that I modified my TiVo box, they can cancel my lieftime subscription, no?


Again, *NO*.

Warranties expire all the time. The expire naturally with time, mileage etc. When the warranty expires you are not required to throw away a product that has a problem. If you were I'd be on my 80th car by now.

Your lifetime sub has *nothing* to do with the warranty.


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## dnthewind (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi Tommy - actually it was connected to the wireless network... but it was connected via the usb network adapter back to the base station. What's the implication here?

I now see the network adapter theory... Our situation was similar - I'd been using the adapter w/o problems for 6-9 months but on Saturday this problem occurred. I hadn't tried restarting it w/o the adapter hooked up, but certainly will. I'll also confirm the network adapter model # once I get home.

In the meantime, we bought a new 80 hr. to replace it. It seems to be workgin frine with the same adapter in it (though as of this morning it was "pending restart" to let the new software version kick in... which makes me nervous. Has anybody had this problem and confirmed that removing the network adapter made it go away??? If so I just took a roundabout method to finally getting MRV!


----------



## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> Your lifetime sub has *nothing* to do with the warranty.


My *POINT* which you are not getting, is that if the motherboard breaks 3 months down the line, and you had modified/open the TiVo box, you are OUT of your $300 lifetime subscription because TiVo will *NOT* fix the unit.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> My *POINT* which you are not getting, is that if the motherboard breaks 3 months down the line, and you had modified/open the TiVo box, you are OUT of your $300 lifetime subscription because TiVo will *NOT* fix the unit.


Again, Again, Again, Again.... *No*

I'm not getting your POINT because your POINT is incorrect. Please repair your POINT. Is it still under warranty? If so the repair will be free, but please repair it whether it is under warranty or not. It is seriously defective.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

cynthetiq said:


> Read my previous post. The LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION is tied to the LIFETIME of the MOTHERBOARD.


Will TiVo honor a lifetime Subscription to a TiVo box if they know that the TiVo box has been modified in any way? Can you give a simiple Yes/No answer?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Yes.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> Again, Again, Again, Again.... *No*
> 
> I'm not getting your POINT because your POINT is incorrect. Please repair your POINT. Is it still under warranty? If so the repair will be free, but please repair it whether it is under warranty or not. It is seriously defective.


Here, let's make this simple and take one step at a time and skip the life sub for a moment:

- I get a TiVo box. I open the box. I install a larger drive like you and many others here say to do.

- The TiVo box breaks 3 months later. I send it back to TiVo for repair. Will TiVo fix it when they see that i modified the TiVo box?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Please keep rereading the previous responses until they sink in.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> Yes.


Are you sure about that? Notice the "Any Modification" part. So if I hack a TiVo box to act like another TiVo box that has a lifetime subscription, TiVo is ok with that?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

"ok with that", "warranty" and "subscription" are all separate things.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> "ok with that", "warranty" and "subscription" are all separate things.


You need to go back and re-read my question. My question to you was simple and and straight forward:

I asked:

_Will TiVo honor a lifetime Subscription to a TiVo box if they know that the TiVo box has been modified in any way? Can you give a simiple Yes/No answer?_

What part of the question was not clear to you?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> You need to go back and re-read my question. My question to you was simple and and straight forward:
> 
> I asked:
> 
> ...


Thank you for asking.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> Will TiVo honor a lifetime Subscription to a TiVo box if they know that the TiVo box has been modified in any way? Can you give a simiple Yes/No answer?


1). Yes
2). Yes

TiVo knows my box is modified. I talked to a CSR about it. That didn't make them remove my lifetime subscription.

Nobody has ever, to my knowledge, had their lifetime sub removed because they have modified the box. Is that clear enough?


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

MickeS said:


> 1). Yes
> 2). Yes
> 
> TiVo knows my box is modified. I talked to a CSR about it. That didn't make them remove my lifetime subscription.
> ...


Yes, that is clear enough if it was true. 

When I called TiVo support on 3 seperate occasions to make sure I was getting the correct answer with their policies. TiVo reps made it VERY clear that if I open or modify a TiVo box, that would void my subscription with them.

Maybe they were all wrong and you are correct. In which case, I have lots of hacking todo on my TiVo box which as you say, it's OK'ed by TiVo.


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

joe123j said:


> Yes, that is clear enough if it was true.
> 
> When I called TiVo support on 3 seperate occasions to make sure I was getting the correct answer with their policies. TiVo reps made it VERY clear that if I open or modify a TiVo box, that would void my subscription with them.
> 
> Maybe they were all wrong and you are correct. In which case, I have lots of hacking todo on my TiVo box which as you say, it's OK'ed by TiVo.


voiding your SUBSCRIPTION and voiding your WARRANTY are two seperate things.

How do you void your subscription? You do something that is against the TERMS OF SERVICE, such as Hacking a TIVO to make it operate like it HAS A LIFETIME subscription when no such subscription was purchased.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> Yes, that is clear enough if it was true.
> 
> When I called TiVo support on 3 seperate occasions to make sure I was getting the correct answer with their policies. TiVo reps made it VERY clear that if I open or modify a TiVo box, that would void my subscription with them.
> 
> Maybe they were all wrong and you are correct. In which case, I have lots of hacking todo on my TiVo box which as you say, it's OK'ed by TiVo.


It's explicitly allowed in the service agreement:


> 13. Definition of Product Lifetime Subscription. A "Product Lifetime Subscription" to the TiVo service covers the life of the TiVo DVR you buy-not the life of the subscriber. The Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR in case of ownership transfer. *The subscription remains in effect* if the TiVo DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) *or even if you upgrade your TiVo DVR to increase storage capacity (though such upgrades, if not performed by TiVo or a TiVo-authorized third party, will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR and constitute a breach of this Agreement)*. Because a Product Lifetime Subscription is linked to a particular TiVo DVR, you may not transfer it to any other TiVo DVR unless all the following conditions apply: (a) the TiVo DVR is being replaced pursuant to the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty; and (b) the TiVo DVR being replaced is of the same make and model as the replacement TiVo DVR; and (c) you provide us with a proof of replacement by the manufacturer or retailer. TiVo reserves the right to charge you a fee to transfer Product Lifetime Service from a TiVo DVR being replaced to a replacement TiVo DVR. Each TiVo DVR purchased requires its own TiVo service subscription and activation. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty).


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> If you open the TiVo box yourself, do you void the TiVo *warranty*





joe123j said:


> When I called TiVo support on 3 seperate occasions to make sure I was getting the correct answer with their policies. TiVo reps made it VERY clear that if I open or modify a TiVo box, that would void my *subscription* with them.


Since you seem to be unable to keep these two concepts straight, I'm not going to place a lot of faith in that.

Three separate calls to get the same answer. Gee, just like this thread


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Yeah, you're confusing the WARRANTY with the SUBSCRIPTION. Your subscription will NOT be void if you modify your TiVo.

It really can't be said any clearer than this, so please don't ask again.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

Ah, excuse me, but are any of you actually reading any of this?

With regards to Lifetime Subscritpion from TiVo's policies, it says and I quote:

_"Definition of Product *Lifetime Subscription*. A "Product Lifetime Subscription" to the TiVo service covers the life of the TiVo DVR you buy-not the life of the subscriber. The Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR in case of ownership transfer. The subscription remains in effect if the TiVo DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) or even if you upgrade your TiVo DVR to increase storage capacity (though such upgrades, if not performed by TiVo or a TiVo-authorized third party, *will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR AND constitute a breach of this Agreement).*"_

Ah, hello there, did you read what constitude a breach of contract for the Lifetime Subscription?

If I open my TiVo box to add a larger disk drive like you tell others here to do, reading the above TiVo policy, I am in breach of contract - What contract? The "Definition of Product Lifetime Subscription" definition. Note the word "and" in that statement.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Fine. You can't upgrade at all. Whatever. Who gives a **** that TiVO explicitly says

*The subscription remains in effect if the TiVo DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) or even if you upgrade your TiVo DVR to increase storage capacity*

They're obviously just trying to set you up. Better use SageTV.

All I can say is that TiVo obviously has never cared about who performs the upgrade, since nobody has gotten their service terminated due to this. I don't know what else you want to hear.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> *The subscription remains in effect* if the TiVo DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) *or even if you upgrade your TiVo DVR to increase storage *capacity


Try reading what you cut and paste.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> Ah, excuse me, but are any of you actually reading this any of this?
> 
> With regards to Lifetime Subscritpion from TiVo's policies, it says and I quote:
> 
> ...


Being in breach of the agreement does constitute an immediate termination. TiVo merely retains the right to terminate. This is spelled out in the next paragraph. TiVo also retains the right to terminate for any reason whatsoever, provided they give you 30 days notice. Hundreds of people have upgraded their TiVos, openly discussed and documented it here and elsewhere, and there have been zero reports, to my knowledge, of TiVo terminating service solely for a drive upgrade.


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

I was thinking that this individual truly was asking for help, I'm assuming from herein out that this is just a troll.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

dgh said:


> Try reading what you cut and paste.


Again, you are not reading nor following correctly.

_*"though such upgrades, if not performed by TiVo or a TiVo-authorized third party, will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR AND constitute a breach of this Agreement)."*_

The question was if **I** upgrade my TiVo just like folks here are telling other folks to so freely do. I am in breach of contract and the contract is also about the Lifetime Subscription. I am not a TiVo authorized agent.

If I open my TiVo box, I am voiding 2 things. My warranty AND my Lifetime Subscription.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

MickeS said:


> Fine. You can't upgrade at all. Whatever. Who gives a **** that TiVO explicitly says


Oh My. For being so mighty and high until proven WRONG, what language! 

I am, totally amazed and fascinated beyond my wildest dreams by posts like yours


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Again no.

At least not for other people.

For you OK - Just for you everything dies when you upgrade your disk. 

But then you decided to cancel your TiVo days ago so it's OK.


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

joe123j said:


> Again, you are not reading nor following correctly.
> 
> _*"though such upgrades, if not performed by TiVo or a TiVo-authorized third party, will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR AND constitute a breach of this Agreement)."*_
> 
> ...


Oh my bad...

I guess I haven't had lifetime service on my 357hour box for the past 3 years...


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

gonzotek said:


> Hundreds of people have upgraded their TiVos,


I'm thinking more like hundreds of thousands. About 20% of the TiVos I know of have been upgraded.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> I am, totally amazed and fascinated beyond my wildest dreams by posts like yours


It wasn't THAT good, was it? But thanks. And congratulations on "winning"! That's what this is about for you after all, isn't it?

Plus I'm not sure what I was proven wrong on. Or are you saying you know of cases where TiVo has terminated a service agreement because of a hard drive upgrade?

All I'm saying is that, yes, when you specifically upgrade, they will surely terminate your service agreement. That's a given.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> Being in breach of the agreement does constitute an immediate termination. TiVo merely retains the right to terminate.


You are correct Sir. But that is besides the point.

I, like many other legit TiVo evaluators want to know what the POLICY SAYS, not how it is enforced or not. Unlike others here, I don't like to play games. I am seeking what TiVo policy states and TiVo is *VERY CLEAR* about what they say.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> Unlike others here, I don't like to play games.


You misspelled "do".


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> You are correct Sir. But that is besides the point.
> 
> I, like many other legit TiVo evaluators want to know what the POLICY SAYS


What it says is they reserve the right to terminate. How is that besides the point?

I thought you honestly wanted to know if TiVo would honor your lifetime subscription if you upgraded your HD.

They will. 100% guaranteed. Nobody has had any problems with that. Thousands of upgrades. Multiple upgrades. On multiple machines. On multiple accounts. After dealing with TiVo. After telling them. Their software is designed to work with larger drives. They upgraded the software to include support for disks larger than what they sell. The upgrades are rarely if ever done by TiVo. It is bulletproof.

What are you arguing about?

But of course, you're not really interested in answers. I should be ashamed of myself for even answering...


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

cynthetiq said:


> I was thinking that this individual truly was asking for help, I'm assuming from herein out that this is just a troll.


yep... seems to be the case.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

MickeS said:


> And congratulations on "winning"! That's what this is about for you after all, isn't it?.


Thank You. It sure feels good to see others admit they were wrong when they were trying to win by employing attack tactics and accusing you of not being able to read when it was them all along who could not follow even simple grammar  These things are very prevalent in cult like settings 

If it helps any and I am sure you wont belive me. I am after the truth - plain and simple. I am evaluating TiVo and like many here, I want to put a larger drive on it for obvious reasons.

I also want to know what is at stake should I open my TiVo box and I have a lifetime subscription. At stake is my $500 bucks that can go down the drain - bottom line.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Descartes is sitting in a bar, having a drink. The bartender asks him if he would like another. "I think not," he says, and vanishes in a puff of logic. 

Oh well, time for me to go do something more productive than talking at a post. See ya later.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> I also want to know what is at stake should I open my TiVo box and I have a lifetime subscription. At stake is my $500 bucks that can go down the drain - bottom line.


No it's not at stake. Your warranty will be void though. That's it.

But it's OK, you can use that as an argument to justify SageTV. It's not true, but then again, you seem to be pretty careless about the truth anyway. You've already lied to us about your participation on the SageTV board, so you might as well lie to yourself about how TiVo treats upgraded HDs.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

MickeS said:


> No it's not at stake. Your warranty will be void though.


Oh my goodness, this is like a bad acid dream that wont stop.

What part of TiVo Policy do you not understand with regards to the "AND" part below:

_*will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR AND constitute a breach of this Agreement)."*_

If YOU open your TiVo, you are Voiding both your warranty AND your Lifetime Subscription becasue you are in breach of agreement.


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

how does one put another user on ignore in vbulletin....

oh here it is... :click:


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

joe123, good luck.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

joe123j said:


> Oh my goodness, this is like a bad acid dream that wont stop.
> 
> What part of TiVo Policy do you not understand with regards to the "AND" part below:
> 
> ...


The problem is that you are reading the agreement, but don't know history behind the hard drive upgrade. When original upgrade path was discovered about 6 years ago, hackers approached Tivo and asked them if it would be OK with TiVo to post it and if TiVo will not disable hacked units. The answer was - "OK you can do it, but we reserve a right to stop it if any attempts are made to hack TiVo service". To this date TiVo hackers community and TiVo are honoring this gentlemen's agreement. There are no indications that this agreement will ever be broken, but there are no guaranties on anything in life. For example TiVo could lose E* law suit this March and go down a drain taking lifetime subscriptions with them.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

They are talking about breaching the WARRANTY aggrement. Your lifetime will be ok. TRUST me, I have returned 3 tivos that have been hacked ( hard drives installed). 

Troll feeding time in 30 minutes


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

samo said:


> To this date TiVo hackers community and TiVo are honoring this gentlemen's agreement..


I guess I don't like games. TiVo could have from the very start, made it so that anybody can upgrade or add more drives - like having a drive bay on TiVo units on which you can insert "add" a larger disk drive.

I prefer to stay legit and read the fine print. For me, as a consumer, I don't care if 99% of the people are getting away with it because guess what, when something goes wrong, I will be in that 1% who gets screwed. If you play with fire, you will get burn.

Cult response coming in less than 30 minutes.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> I guess I don't like games. TiVo could have from the very start, made it so that anybody can upgrade or add more drives - like having a drive bay on TiVo units on which you can insert "add" a larger disk drive.
> 
> I prefer to stay legit and read the fine print. For me, as a consumer, I don't care if 99% of the people are getting away with it because guess what, when something goes wrong, I will be in that 1% who gets screwed. If you play with fire, you will get burn.
> 
> Cult response coming in less than 30 minutes.


Then could you not have an authorized third-party do it for you? Fine print says that's ok. TiVo Series 3 shown at CES(which is not available yet, but slated for mid-06) has a SATA port for easy, TiVo-sanctioned upgrades.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> Then could you not have an authorized third-party do it for you? Fine print says that's ok..


Yes, that would be $ok$. But now, things are getting very expensive. I rather look to other solutions which costs much less.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> Yes, that would be $ok$. But now, things are getting very expensive. I rather look to other solutions which costs much less.


And there's nothing wrong with that.

So, you are not planning on upgrading the TiVo? Do you think you will sell it?


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> And there's nothing wrong with that.
> 
> So, you are not planning on upgrading the TiVo? Do you think you will sell it?


What is wrong is that the over all costs begins to add up - Unless money is not a problem in which case 80% of all posts here can be ignored since most want to upgrade because they bought a cheap TiVo to save.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> What is wrong is that the over all costs begins to add up - Unless money is not a problem in which case 80% of all posts here can be ignored since most want to upgrade because they bought a cheap TiVo to save.


I'm not sure what you're saying...I asked what you were planning on doing with your unit, only out of interest?


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

joe123j said:


> I guess I don't like games. TiVo could have from the very start, made it so that anybody can upgrade or add more drives - like having a drive bay on TiVo units on which you can insert "add" a larger disk drive.


And they did. Original Series 1 had an extra drive bay AND drive upgrade was available on Philips units from manufacturer. Because self-upgrade was so much cheaper majority of TiVo users elected to do it themselves.
Do you know that if you buy a PC from Best Buy and install an extra drive in case it goes bad they wouldn't do in-store exchange? I had it happen to me - they told me that since I opened a case myself the only thing I can do is to send it back to HP. That is an official Best Buy policy. Of course it was a combination of the stupid store manager and me honestly telling them that I did open a case. Most people don have much problems exchanging defective PC at BB. So to respond to your concern - yes it is feasible that TiVo will use their written policy and cancel your lifetime. If you don't want to gamble with 99.999% odds in your favor, then self-upgrade and/or lifetime sub is not for you. Neither is poker.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> I'm not sure what you're saying...I asked what you were planning on doing with your unit, only out of interest?


I am evaluating TiVo vs SageTV. If I keep TiVo, I would want to add a lot more disk space. With SageTV, I can add ad many drives as I want without voiding anything if I do it.

So, I need to know the final $number$/cost to setup 5 TV's.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> So, I need to know the final $number$/cost to setup 5 TV's.


If all you are looking at is cost-to-storage, then it's going to be SageTV. I'd say there quite a few other factors, many very intangible and subjective. Ease-of-use, reliability, complexity and time-commitment of maintainence all come to mind. Sage might still win out for you, and again, that's OK. As suggested by someone else many posts ago, you could always use both in some combination. It doesn't *have* to be either/or.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> If all you are looking at is cost-to-storage, then it's going to be SageTV. I'd say there quite a few other factors, many very intangible and subjective. Ease-of-use, reliability, complexity and time-commitment of maintainence all come to mind. Sage might still win out for you, and again, that's OK. As suggested by someone else many posts ago, you could always use both in some combination. It doesn't *have* to be either/or.


Not at all, that was one factor. The other main factor is being able to hook up my entire house to stream recordings to all of my 5 TV's. With MediaMVP, each TV in my house can watch a different recording and best of all, no noise, no fans, no PC on each TV.

I may use both in the future, but right now, like many here, I cannot afford all. So I have to make a decesion as to the best solution for the money today.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> They are talking about breaching the WARRANTY aggrement. Your lifetime will be ok. TRUST me, I have returned 3 tivos that have been hacked ( hard drives installed).


*No, that is not correct.

TiVo warranty very clearly states that If YOU open your TiVo box, you are Voiding both your warranty AND your Lifetime Subscription becasue you are in breach of agreement.

Whether TIVo looks the other way or not, that is totaly a different argument. The truth is that if you open your TiVo box, you are in breach of Contract with TiVo.*


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

aaaah what a nice day here for fishing... you know... trolling...


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> Whether TIVo looks the other way or not, that is totaly a different argument. The truth is that if you open your TiVo box, you are in breach of Contract with TiVo.


Yes, TiVo and other earthlings look at it one way. Joe123(j) looks at it in another way. Since his way is more restrictive, and doesn't affect anyone except him, I say leave him to his fantasies.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I thought this thread was already resolved by its own volition.

Or momentum, if you prefer that. Same thing.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

*I am not sure what you guys are trying to do by deceiving TiVo owners who may not know any better.

TiVo policy is VERY clear about the fact that YOU will break the TiVo Lifetime Subscription contract if you open your TiVo box.

This reminds me of idiots who claim that just because someone brakes the law, it is ok for them to break the law as well.
*


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

aaah nice to see I can still catch one last fish before the end of the day... trolling is such a good way for catching fish.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

joe123j, maybe if you used all capital letters we would understand.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

*
aaah - Deception at it's finest.

Smoke and mirrors  wont take away the fact you are promoting TiVo owners to jepordize their Lifetime Subscription by breaking TiVo's contract policy if they open their box.*


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

joe123j said:


> aaah - Deception at it's finest.
> 
> Smoke and mirrors  wont take away the fact you are promoting TiVo owners to jepordize their Lifetime Subscription by breaking TiVo's contract policy if they open their box.


Joe, buddy, you're back. Where have you been? I was over there in the "Amazing Product" thread trying to get my Sage setup going and defend you, and you just abandoned me. Dude, that was cold.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> aaah - Deception at it's finest.


Nah, people have done *way* better than you. You were caught on the day of your first post.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

ChuckyBox said:


> Joe, buddy, you're back. Where have you been? I was over there in the "Amazing Product" thread trying to get my Sage setup going and defend you, and you just abandoned me. Dude, that was cold.


*Dude, go to the SageTV forums where they can help you and you will find it not to be a cult like setting like here with employees attacking anyone who questions TiVo or warns people not to open their TiVo boxes becuase they will break their LifeTime Subscription. 
*


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

joe123j said:


> *Dude, go to the SageTV forums*


Hey are joe123j and joe123 talking to each other over there? Did joe123 answer all of joe123j's questions?


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

well it's cloudy here in NYC, it's a great day to go fishing!!! just have to get on the boat to go trolling... 

sigh... maybe we should just ask for this thread to be closed.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> ...employees attacking anyone...


The SageTV forums are indeed nice, and anyone interested in SageTV should have a look at them; the community there seems vibrant and helpful. But now you are accusing not only the forum members and moderators of TCF of attacking you, but TiVo, Inc. employees?!? I'd like to see some reference to any TiVo employee attacking you. In my experience, no matter what the tone of the poster, if a TiVo employee interacts with him or her on this board, they attempt to be polite and helpful. They generally take fair criticism well, and often will pass on complaints and suggestions to the appropriate people at TiVo HQ.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> The SageTV forums are indeed nice, and anyone interested in SageTV should have a look at them; the community there seems vibrant and helpful. But now you are accusing not only the forum members and moderators of TCF of attacking you, but TiVo, Inc. employees?!? I'd like to see some reference to any TiVo employee attacking you. In my experience, no matter what the tone of the poster, if a TiVo employee interacts with him or her on this board, they attempt to be polite and helpful. They generally take fair criticism well, and often will pass on complaints and suggestions to the appropriate people at TiVo HQ.


*I was attacked for correcting mis-information being spread here about TiVo's policy. I cut and pasted TiVo's policy and highlighted the exact places where the facts are stated.

I have yet to see any moderator come out and uphold TiVo's written policies. What I do see, is a lot of people encouraging others to break TiVo's policy while saying it is OK ( Wink-Wink  ) to do so. *


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

Wow... another big fish!


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> *I was attacked for correcting mis-information being spread here about TiVo's policy. I cut and pasted TiVo's policy and highlighted the exact places where the facts are stated.
> 
> I have yet to see any moderator come out and uphold TiVo's written policies. What I do see, is a lot of people encouraging others to break TiVo's policy while saying it is OK ( Wink-Wink  ) to do so. *


But was it a TiVo employee attacking you? That's what you asserted in your previous post. Moderators at this forum are not employed by TiVo, Inc.


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## joe123j (Jan 25, 2006)

gonzotek said:


> But was it a TiVo employee attacking you? That's what you asserted in your previous post. Moderators at this forum are not employed by TiVo, Inc.


*I don't know, all I said was maybe. I said that because non of them could stay focused on the facts, they try to get away from the facts with baby like name calling, etc, when pressed on issues.
*


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

joe123j said:


> *Dude, go to the SageTV forums where they can help you and you will find it not to be a cult like setting like here with employees attacking anyone who questions TiVo or warns people not to open their TiVo boxes becuase they will break their LifeTime Subscription.
> *


I do not see any occurrence of 'maybe' in this text. Do you?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

joe123j said:


> *Dude, go to the SageTV forums where they can help you and you will find it not to be a cult like setting like here with employees attacking anyone who questions TiVo or warns people not to open their TiVo boxes becuase they will break their LifeTime Subscription.
> *


JustAPixel is not a TiVo Employee. No TiVo employee would bother to ever repsond to a shill like you, you flatter yourself way too much.

JustAPixel also would never bother to reply to you save in performing her Moderator duties.

You obviosuly are trying to do a TiVo to Sage comparison with as negative a slant toward TiVo as possible. I assume it is something you want to use on the Sage forum, even though you seem to think your lie about not being part of that forum is good enough to fool a cult.

My advice open up all your computers and take the hard drives out of them so you can never get on the internet again.


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