# I'm starting to hate suggestions.



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I've always been pro-suggestions.

But this behvior is REALLY annoying me, I might shut them off.

Here is the scenario:

You are watching a live show on tuner 1.

A suggestion recording is going to tuner 2.

You get a prompt saying the system needs to change channels to record something. 

God forbid you are in the bathroom or something, you come back and it has cleared your buffer and started recording something else.

Why on earth doesn't it just shut off the stupid suggestion on tuner 2 and leave me alone?

I know, I'm going to get 'how does it know that you are watching live tv, vs. just having left the room...?' Maybe give me the option to only record suggestions if BOTH tuners are idle?


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## daperlman (Jan 25, 2002)

agreed. This is especially bad when you have space (and it is always recording a suggestion). I have trained myself to hit info and select whenever I notice it is recording and I want to change it


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

The recording logic in 9.x has made suggestions even more annoying. Since regular recordings that are back to back (aka 9-10, 10-10:30) use different tuners, you will constantly get your live tv buffer interrupted. Back to back suggestions have the same issue, so because of this live tv is impossible to watch now without recording every single thing you are watching.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater, I agree. It seems MUCH worse lately. It happens almost ALWAYS when i'm watching live tv.

On Sunday's I'm flipping around a lot for football games, and it's screwing me up constantly.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

The new logic caused me so much trouble that I turned suggestions off. Once a week I look at the suggestions it has found for me, and I record any that are of interest. I also get to give a Thumbs-Down to the suggestions that have no interest for me.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> rainwater, I agree. It seems MUCH worse lately. It happens almost ALWAYS when i'm watching live tv.
> 
> On Sunday's I'm flipping around a lot for football games, and it's screwing me up constantly.


There should be a timer, like 30 minutes at least, where if any button has been pressed in that time, it assumes you are watching live and leaves you alone.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

This issue of involuntary channel changing is one I mentioned long ago. The old UTV & Dishplayer boxes wouldn't change the channels on a delayed program without a manual ok.

I guess now I see how that could be a problem for Tivo, especially with a single tuner. You might have paused and walked away forgetting a favorite show was coming up on Season Pass.

But with a dual tuner you'd think this wouldn't need to happen so much. Especially just to record a suggestion or "enhanced content."


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Thanks lafos, I have been preaching that too for years to folks. Many just don't know you still see the list of suggestions when it is turned off, and can then pick ones you want! Makes SO much sense, as does giving thumbs down to bad ones. I'd never put up with it interrupting live TV either, and no reason to.


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## fredct (Nov 15, 2004)

We had a discussion of this in the past. Its an unfortunate situation because whichever decision TiVo makes, it could be exactly right or exactly wrong. What if you hadn't been watching TV at all? (remember, TiVo has no idea - most people don't use standby)


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

visionary said:


> Thanks lafos, I have been preaching that too for years to folks. Many just don't know you still see the list of suggestions when it is turned off, and can then pick ones you want! Makes SO much sense, as does giving thumbs down to bad ones. I'd never put up with it interrupting live TV either, and no reason to.


I don't agree, I really like the TiVo just finding things and recording them in the background.

So long as it doesn't interfere with my regular viewing. But it does. And like it's mentioned above, they've made it even worse.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

fredct said:


> We had a discussion of this in the past. Its an unfortunate situation because whichever decision TiVo makes, it could be exactly right or exactly wrong. What if you hadn't been watching TV at all? (remember, TiVo has no idea - most people don't use standby)


There can't be anything "exactly wrong" with back to back recordings using the same tuner.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

hefe said:


> There should be a timer, like 30 minutes at least, where if any button has been pressed in that time, it assumes you are watching live and leaves you alone.


I thought there was exactly such a timer.. but I now realize I have seen the screen asking if I want to let it change channels to record a suggestion.. and I OCD-ly press buttons a lot (including play just to see where I am in the recording).


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## fredct (Nov 15, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> There can't be anything "exactly wrong" with back to back recordings using the same tuner.


This isn't back-to-back recordings. At least not as discussed in the past.

This is a suggestion recording from 8PM to 9 PM, and then a season pass kicking in at 8:30PM. If you were watching something you didn't care about, or you weren't watching at all, than stopping the suggestion mid-stream - which perhaps is a favorite episode of a favorite show you've been really wanting to see again - in order to prevent recording over something you weren't watching anyway - would be exactly the wrong thing.

I don't doubt there are better ways to do this (the timer is an idea, but its not perfect either, as many people may watch long stretches of TV without touching the remote), but 'stop the suggestion' versus 'change the other tuner' is a rock and a hard place dilemma.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

fredct said:


> I don't doubt there are better ways to do this (the timer is an idea, but its not perfect either, as many people may watch long stretches of TV without touching the remote), but 'stop the suggestion' versus 'change the other tuner' is a rock and a hard place dilemma.


It isn't that hard. It shouldn't start a suggestion to begin with if it overlaps with a recording. I think they have made suggestions too aggressive in the current software.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

rainwater said:


> The recording logic in 9.x has made suggestions even more annoying. Since regular recordings that are back to back (aka 9-10, 10-10:30) use different tuners, you will constantly get your live tv buffer interrupted.


The TiVo doesn't know when you're watching, but it does know which tuner is being displayed. If I were TiVo King I'd ensure that the non-displayed tuner was always used for recordings when only one show is to be recorded (you mean that's not the way it works?).


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## bonnie_raitt (Sep 14, 2001)

Sounds like you guys are watching too much live TV.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> The TiVo doesn't know when you're watching, but it does know which tuner is being displayed. If I were TiVo King I'd ensure that the non-displayed tuner was always used for recordings when only one show is to be recorded (you mean that's not the way it works?).


Until 9.2 TiVo would record back to back recordings on the same tuner which allowed you to watch live tv without any annoyances. Now, it will ALWAYS use the other tuner so if you are watching live tv you will have change tuners and lose your 30 minute buffer to continue watching live tv. And if you are behind live this is especially annoying because you will not know to switch tuners until it is too late.


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## claire_d (May 15, 2007)

I have a suggestion as to how you should deal with this... but based on the title of your post I'm afraid to make it. 

Seriously, though, lots of time if I'm just watching something and I'm going to walk away for a bit, I'll hit record and just pause it. Especially 'cause of just 30 minutes on the buffer.


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## Krosis (May 10, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> You are watching a live show on tuner 1.


Why would you do such a thing?

Seriously, if you want to watch something more or less live then just hit record and watch the recording. Solves all the problems. It will even let you know if you are going to run into a real conflict with other shows.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Krosis said:


> Why would you do such a thing?
> 
> Seriously, if you want to watch something more or less live then just hit record and watch the recording. Solves all the problems. It will even let you know if you are going to run into a real conflict with other shows.


So is TiVo going to send out a message to all users that you can no longer watch live tv anymore? There is no problems if TiVo would fix this bug. Why should users have to change their viewing habits instead of TiVo fixing the bug?


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## Krosis (May 10, 2004)

rainwater said:


> So is TiVo going to send out a message to all users that you can no longer watch live tv anymore? There is no problems if TiVo would fix this bug. Why should users have to change their viewing habits instead of TiVo fixing the bug?


It's not a bug in my opinion since it's doing exactly what I want it to do. Perhaps they could offer customization options, but that would complicate things and they seem to try to avoid that.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

There has been a timer built into this logic from the very first TiVo...if it sees that you've used the remote recently it won't try to interrupt your viewing with a suggestion. If it's not doing that, it would be a bug. Appreciate the heads up, we'll look into it.

Pony


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## Krosis (May 10, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> if it sees that you've used the remote recently it won't try to interrupt your viewing with a suggestion.


Now I would like to turn that timer off, it's one reason I avoid live TV. I don't want to interfere with the suggestions.

You can't please all the people all the time


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Thanks, Pony. Such a timer has been discussed by others here, but I never knew whether it was one of those urban legend things.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

TiVoPony said:


> There has been a timer built into this logic from the very first TiVo...if it sees that you've used the remote recently it won't try to interrupt your viewing with a suggestion. If it's not doing that, it would be a bug. Appreciate the heads up, we'll look into it.
> 
> Pony


what about back to back scheduled recordings not using the same tuner?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Krosis said:


> Why would you do such a thing?
> 
> Seriously, if you want to watch something more or less live then just hit record and watch the recording. Solves all the problems. It will even let you know if you are going to run into a real conflict with other shows.


For one, when I watch football. I'm not going to go through the rigamoral of starting a recording, having then to stop it to switch to another game on a break or halftime. Same with most other sporting events. I flip around.

Another example is a major news story. Say the presidential election, or news after a speech. I want the ability to flip between news networks.

So no, that doesn't solve anything. I obviously pre-record tv shows...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TiVoPony said:


> There has been a timer built into this logic from the very first TiVo...if it sees that you've used the remote recently it won't try to interrupt your viewing with a suggestion. If it's not doing that, it would be a bug. Appreciate the heads up, we'll look into it.
> 
> Pony


SOMETHING has changed, it's very disruptive. I never used to notice until lately. I can't even get through a football game without it trying to change several times.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> SOMETHING has changed, it's very disruptive. I never used to notice until lately. I can't even get through a football game without it trying to change several times.


I think there are two issues:

1) Back to back recordings no longer use the same tuner. It doesn't matter if the recordings are suggestions or not. This will interrupt live tv because of this bug.

2) I'm not 100% sure, bug it seems suggestions use to not start recording if another recording would start after it so that they overlap. What seems to happen now is you are watching tuner #1 and a suggestion starts recording on tuner #2. Then 30 minutes later a regular recording starts, requiring you to switch tuners and cancel the suggestion (because of another new bug that doesn't automatically cancel suggestions).


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

Suggestions were turned off a few days after I hooked up my Tivo as they were very annoying.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

I just tested this on my DirecTivo box, and have the same behavior. So, this isn't a newly introduced problem.

The only possible difference, is that I explicitly scheduled the recording after the suggestion was in progress. So, I guess it's possible that it wouldn't have started the suggestion if it already knew a recording was scheduled for the same time (item #2 in rainwater's last post).

Since I watch so little live tv, it would be hard to catch this with my regular usage to see if a previously scheduled recording on that box would behave the same.

And, I responded to rainwater in a different thread, but his comment about "another new bug that doesn't automatically cancel suggestions" isn't actually a new bug. I'm assuming he's talking about his complaint where watching a scheduled recording while a suggestion is recording on the background tuner. If you attempt to change channels, it prompt you to cancel the scheduled recording instead of automatically swapping tuners and cancelling the suggestion. That's also happening on my DirecTivo box.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Roderigo said:


> I just tested this on my DirecTivo box, and have the same behavior. So, this isn't a newly introduced problem.


The bug started in 9.2. This behavior never existed on the S2 DT since it was introduced and certainly never existed on the S3 or TiVo HD before 9.2. Prior to 9.2 on SA TiVos, suggestions were cancelled when changing channels instead of requiring the user to cancel the scheduled recording to change channels. I can't speak for DirecTivos, but I can speak to the S2 DT and S3 platform since I have own several of each since both were introduced.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Roderigo said:


> The only possible difference, is that I explicitly scheduled the recording after the suggestion was in progress. So, I guess it's possible that it wouldn't have started the suggestion if it already knew a recording was scheduled for the same time (item #2 in rainwater's last post).


That isn't what we're talking about.

We're talking about your TiVo being idle, no scheduled recordings. You sit down to watch football on Sunday and all day you keep getting interrupted constantly with the TiVo trying to start recording a suggestion on the tuner you are actively watching when the other one is idle!

You flip on your game on 9-1 using Tuner1. You go to the bathroom, come back, your buffer is cleared and it is recording something stupid on Tuner1. Then you have to hit LiveTV and hit 9-1 to return to the show (now on Tuner2) you are watching. Suggestion finishes recording, so Tuner1 is idle and the tivo is prompting you to change channels AGAIN.

Before this change, the scenario would have been, you flip on your game on 9-1 using Tuner1. Suggestions run exclusively on Tuner2. You hit LiveTV to access Tuner2 and switch to ANOTHER game, the suggestion is automatically canceled and the channel is changed. No prompts or annoyances. Yes, the second tuner would go and record another suggestion later, but not on your active tuner.

They should at LEAST revert the behavior back to the way it used to be. It would be even better if you could tell it to only record suggestions if both tuners are idle...


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> That isn't what we're talking about.
> 
> We're talking about your TiVo being idle, no scheduled recordings. You sit down to watch football on Sunday and all day you keep getting interrupted constantly with the TiVo trying to start recording a suggestion on the tuner you are actively watching when the other one is idle!


Did I misread your original post?


Adam1115 said:


> You are watching a live show on tuner 1.
> 
> A suggestion recording is going to tuner 2.
> 
> ...


Your latest post is saying that suggestions are starting on an active tuner. If that's happening (haven't seen it myself, but as I said, I don't watch much live tv), I'd agree it's annoying.

However, your original post sounded like you wanted a scheduled recording to cancel an in-progress suggestion on the background tuner. I tested this against the oldest software I have running at home (6.3 directv software), and that's how it worked with that software. Doesn't mean that tivo couldn't make their software better, just that it's not a recent change.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

rainwater said:


> The bug started in 9.2. This behavior never existed on the S2 DT since it was introduced and certainly never existed on the S3 or TiVo HD before 9.2. Prior to 9.2 on SA TiVos, suggestions were cancelled when changing channels instead of requiring the user to cancel the scheduled recording to change channels. I can't speak for DirecTivos, but I can speak to the S2 DT and S3 platform since I have own several of each since both were introduced.


I suppose it's possible that it worked like this in 6.3, and tivo fixed it sometime before 7.2.5 (I think that's what the S2DT shipped with), and then broke it again in 9.2. I'm just assuming that if it worked like that in 6.3 (since I just tested that scenario) it continued to work like that up through the current software.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Roderigo said:


> Did I misread your original post?


Yes, I'm talking about live tv only. I realized after others comments that it is alternating between tuners which is very annoying.

And to the 'just record everything people", that's what I've had to start doing. But telling the S3 to record 2 4 hour football games (with padding) in HD so that I can switch back and forth consumes about 80 GIGS of hard drive space. Telling it to do that (when I'm watching it live) results in a bunch of stuff getting deleted.


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## Distortedloop (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes, add me to the group that is frustrated with this behavior.

I am new to TiVo. My series 3 of less than three weeks is my first TiVo branded DVR. I have owned a ReplayTV and several models of TWC provided DVRs.

I could make a lengthy list of things I think make the TiVo inferior to the Scientific Atlanta dual tuners TWC provides, but this problem would be high on the list of complaints.

I am watching live tv on one tuner, the second tuner is recording a suggestion (as indicated by no title displayed on front LCD). A season pass or scheduled recording I've selected comes up, and it tells me to change the channel to record my season pass. The software should assume that the channel I am watching is and the season pass or hand selected recording is a higher priority to me than a "suggestion".

Here's what is worse that happened yesterday.

I am watching a program, I hit record to save it...a suggestion is recording on the other tuner. A scheduled recording time comes up. TiVo pops up to cancel the recording I am watching live and recording to get the season pass. Why on Earth would it think that a program I'm watching and want recorded is less important to me than a suggestion.

This one's just wrong...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Distortedloop said:


> I am watching a program, I hit record to save it...a suggestion is recording on the other tuner. A scheduled recording time comes up. TiVo pops up to cancel the recording I am watching live and recording to get the season pass. Why on Earth would it think that a program I'm watching and want recorded is less important to me than a suggestion.
> 
> This one's just wrong...


This is a new bug I have posted about on this forum that started with 9.2. One poster claims this is intended behavior. If it is, then TiVo needs to state somewhere on their website that suggestions will screw with your scheduled recordings instead of saying that they do no interfere with your ability to use the TiVo.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

This is getting RIDICULOUS!

Today, I'm watching A&E live after it finished recording a show on tuner 2. Tuner 1 is recording a suggestion on Disney. I leave the room and come back to find that tuner 2 (Which I've actively been watching live, using the remote, etc.) has changed channels to record a suggestion on DISNEY. So BOTH TUNERS are tuned to the same show, 1 for the suggestion and one 'live' following the last suggestion on the same channel.

Come ON TiVo! You have two BACK TO BACK suggestions on the same *CHANNEL* and you decide to use the active LIVE TV TUNER that is on a different channel?????


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> This is getting RIDICULOUS!
> 
> Today, I'm watching A&E live after it finished recording a show on tuner 2. Tuner 1 is recording a suggestion on Disney. I leave the room and come back to find that tuner 2 (Which I've actively been watching live, using the remote, etc.) has changed channels to record a suggestion on DISNEY. So BOTH TUNERS are tuned to the same show, 1 for the suggestion and one 'live' following the last suggestion on the same channel.
> 
> Come ON TiVo! You have two BACK TO BACK suggestions on the same *CHANNEL* and you decide to use the active LIVE TV TUNER that is on a different channel?????


I have that happen alot, so much that I turned suggestions off because it is annoying as hell now.

I liked suggestions, but now its like it has to record all the time, no matter what now, and that is annoying. Just yesterday I cleared out the suggestions on my DT and turned suggestions on around 5pm, and this morning at 9am, I checked and it recorded 23 suggestions in 16 hors, when before it may have only recorded 10 at the most.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mike3775 said:


> I liked suggestions, but now its like it has to record all the time, no matter what now, and that is annoying. Just yesterday I cleared out the suggestions on my DT and turned suggestions on around 5pm, and this morning at 9am, I checked and it recorded 23 suggestions in 16 hors, when before it may have only recorded 10 at the most.


I strongly suspect this is because there's more space available on your Tivo, because of you watching more shows due to being on vacation and/or due to fewer new shows because of the writer's strike (though this time of year is always pretty full of reruns).


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## toddcscar (Jan 6, 2006)

I for one would like an option to disable the tivo suggestions on the tuner that is showing live tv. I have digital cable and access to FM radio stations (with great clarity I might add: no static) and I frequently turn the tivo and tv on, change to the radio station and then turn off the tv and just list to NPR in the mornings. However, tivo suggestions kick in and change the channel.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Just hit record and you'll get a few uninterrupted hours. Delete the "show" later.


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## shane_pcs (Jan 3, 2008)

I am tired of the "Just hit record comments". Since aparently absurd suggestions are allowed, why not just buy and additional TivoHD and stack it on top of the other one. Now enable suggestions on one, and disable them on the other. Only watch live tv on the one with disabled suggestions. That would also solve the problem, but wouldn't it just be easier for Tivo to correct the bug in thier software?

I agree with some of the other posters. I shouldn't have to hit record every time I watch tv. I am a recently converted ReplayTV user and thus never used the previous software, I just thought the Tivo was poorly designed. Now that I know that it previously worked logically I hope they fix it.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

shane_pcs said:


> I just thought the Tivo was poorly designed. Now that I know that it previously worked logically I hope they fix it.


Some might say that TiVo is overdesigned. It attempts to pick up every stitch while offering a feature set way beyond DVR, and once in awhile drops a stitch.

Just turn off Suggestions until TiVo corrects the problem. TiVo's got a good record about correcting arcane s/w glitches.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> Some might say that TiVo is overdesigned. It attempts to pick up every stitch while offering a feature set way beyond DVR, and once in awhile drops a stitch.
> 
> Just turn off Suggestions until TiVo corrects the problem. TiVo's got a good record about correcting arcane s/w glitches.


One of the issues with suggestions is that back to back recordings use different tuners instead of the inactive tuner. So this affects users whether they have suggestions on or not. It just manifests itself more when you have suggestions enabled.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

The problem transcends Suggestions, true. Suggestions just makes it worse.


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## bryus (Mar 15, 2004)

This bug has been ticking me off for months. I had a Phillips DSR704 DirecTV box for 3 1/2 years. I only got rid of it last summer because the 2nd satellite input died. In all that time I NEVER once had a live buffer dumped for a suggestion like this. 

I would watch two live shows at once. Watch one until I hit a commercial, switch to the other, repeat. Never a problem. It only warned me it needed a tuner when it was recently watched by me as indicated by activity.

Now I have it dumping my buffer to START a suggestion. I always thought suggestions were supposed to be the lowest priority. First live TV, second scheduled recordings, third suggestions.

It's really annoying to loose 15 minutes of the fourth quarter of a football game so it could record a show I didn't want to watch.

Given that, I won't turn off suggestions because I use it as a sort of season pass list. I give three thumbs up to shows I like but don't watch regularly. This is for things like the news or sitcoms. It is easier than trying to create an elaborate season pass that creates conflicts.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

shane_pcs said:


> I am tired of the "Just hit record comments".


Me too.

WE KNOW how to hit record and record programs, it's not a helpful suggestion to tell us to record things.

We're here to talk about the NEW BUG that prevents use of LIVE TV because both recordings and suggestions interfere with them.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bryus said:


> I would watch two live shows at once. Watch one until I hit a commercial, switch to the other, repeat. Never a problem. It only warned me it needed a tuner when it was recently watched by me as indicated by activity.


But repeating the same suggestion (no pun intended)... why aren't you just recording both of these?

I *do* sometimes use live TV, and admittedly used it last night on two tuners at once -- mostly because I was in pretty much the only time I "seriously" use live TV -- when I'm very low on disk space. (I also buffer up some live TV of CNN before I plan to go to sleep to have some CNN to listen to.. but that sometimes is interrupted by channel changes, purposeful or accidental.. I know I'd record something if I *really* cared about it.)


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## rjames (Aug 8, 2003)

If you are using cable just run a spitter to the tv. You can watch live and record two. If your tv has a cable card you can get all the programs, if not most sets have a quam tuner and you can still get network hd. Watch one and record two, just switch imputs. Problem solved.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

rjames said:


> If you are using cable just run a spitter to the tv. You can watch live and record two. If your tv has a cable card you can get all the programs, if not most sets have a quam tuner and you can still get network hd. Watch one and record two, just switch imputs. Problem solved.


Problem *not* solved. Why are people having such a hard time understanding this?


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## rjames (Aug 8, 2003)

Seems to me it is solved unless you just want to whine.


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## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

More than anything else, this is probably the one 'feature' I'd want changed or fixed on my TIVOs. 

So many times, I'll pause something interesting onto which I've stumbled on live TV - answer a phone call or the front door or go to the bathroom, come back a few minutes later & a suggestion is recording. How difficult can it be to sense that you must be watching live TV if you've hit the 'pause' button? This would not be difficult to program into the logic or intelligence of the TIVO software & in my mind it's entirely intuitive. Failing that, I'd love to be able to do something (key sequence?) to indicate 'temporarily suspend suggestions'. 

While I do appreciate the occasional recorded suggestion, for the most part I believe they're far too aggressive trying to fill my TIVO  That's what I get for building three with almost 500 hours each, I guess ...


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

rjames said:


> Seems to me it is solved unless you just want to whine.


+1

Sometimes you just gotta find a workaround and be happy.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

rjames said:


> Seems to me it is solved unless you just want to whine.


The bug will still be there. And unless you are planning on notifying every single user of TiVo about a workaround and spend millions of dollars doing it, even that solution isn't a viable one.

This bug is one of the main reasons I am planning on switching my main TV to Moxi when the contract is up. The Moxi software isn't that great, but it at least works when you watch live tv.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Not every single user is as injured as you claim to be.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> Not every single user is as injured as you claim to be.


Of course, but how do you know which ones are? That is the whole point. Most people on this forum are power users and despise live tv. However, thinking everyone uses their TiVo like the power users on this forum is not very smart.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Of course, but how do you know which ones are? That is the whole point. Most people on this forum are power users and despise live tv. However, thinking everyone uses their TiVo like the power users on this forum is not very smart.


I agree, some people for example have guests stay with them. Explaining to them that they have to hit record on any show they might want to watch, otherwise it will change channels and record a suggestion leaves them a bad taste of what a 'tivo' is.

You *should* be able to watch live tv if you *want* to, even if some people think that you're stupid for doing so.


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## drewj (Feb 21, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> Not every single user is as injured as you claim to be.


Just because it doesn't affect your workflow doesn't mean it isn't a problem that should be addressed. It is a big frustration for many, I'm sure.

Bottom line: The old behavior was better and their "update" broke the prior (correct) behavior.


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## buckeye1010 (Dec 11, 2002)

I've had suggestions turned off since almost the beginning. I know enough stuff of what I like to keep me busy for a long time


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rjames said:


> If you are using cable just run a spitter to the tv. You can watch live and record two. If your tv has a cable card you can get all the programs, if not most sets have a quam tuner and you can still get network hd. Watch one and record two, just switch imputs. Problem solved.


As someone else pointed out in another thread on this subject; live TV without using your Tivo foregoes all trick play features. :down:


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## bryus (Mar 15, 2004)

mattack said:


> But repeating the same suggestion (no pun intended)... why aren't you just recording both of these?
> 
> I *do* sometimes use live TV, and admittedly used it last night on two tuners at once -- mostly because I was in pretty much the only time I "seriously" use live TV -- when I'm very low on disk space. (I also buffer up some live TV of CNN before I plan to go to sleep to have some CNN to listen to.. but that sometimes is interrupted by channel changes, purposeful or accidental.. I know I'd record something if I *really* cared about it.)


Does it matter why I don't record. It doesn't work the way it's supposed to, therefore it's broken. It's that simple.

The "shut up and use the workaround line" is getting old. Clearly most of the people here are in tech support. They don't care about fixing anything, just getting to the next issue.

I guess if you are happy paying money for something that's broken, go ahead. Some of us demand more.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bryus said:


> Does it matter why I don't record. It doesn't work the way it's supposed to, therefore it's broken. It's that simple.
> 
> The "shut up and use the workaround line" is getting old. Clearly most of the people here are in tech support. They don't care about fixing anything, just getting to the next issue.
> 
> I guess if you are happy paying money for something that's broken, go ahead. Some of us demand more.


I know. It's not a universal workaround.

What about during the upcoming presidential race? Do I need to have TWO Series3's recording all of the news channels so I can flip between them to prevent it from changing in the middle to record a suggestion or Dora the Explorer?


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## Grandpasteve (Jan 13, 2007)

This problem is not good, we were happy with TiVo for most of 2007, enough to buy a second TiVo, but this problem, introduced in the Fall is making us regret Tivo. It was user friendly for the whole household before 9.2, now it is annoying.

I don't need a work around, I need TiVo to work the way it did.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Grandpasteve said:


> This problem is not good, we were happy with TiVo for most of 2007, enough to buy a second TiVo, but this problem, introduced in the Fall is making us regret Tivo. It was user friendly for the whole household before 9.2, now it is annoying.
> 
> I don't need a work around, I need TiVo to work the way it did.


Yea, don't get me wrong, I love my S3, it's been the best DVR I've ever owned. I just wish (hope) they fix it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

So tonight, watching TV live, TiVo changes the channel to record a suggestion.

No warning.

What happened to the notice that it's going to change channels in one minute???


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

_One_ minute.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

I just picked up my first dual tuner Tivo...the TivoHD. I have3 S2 units dating back to 2003.

I am shocked to read about this.

Here is what brought me to this thread......I come into the room and see the Tivo is recording 2 suggestions. I tune to Tuner 1....and change the channel to the 5 o'clock news. Now, I go over to Tuner 2, and go to change the channel to the Food Network........well, the Tivo changes Tuner 1 to the Food Network, leaving Tuner 2 to record the suggestion.

Pausing tuner 1 does nothing....it still changes Tuner 1 instead of tuner 2.

The only way to get out of it is to stop the recording on tuner 2, then change the channel.

This is very annoying.

-Kevin


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

The Tivo already keeps a log of keypresses. Why not leverage the existing log and only change channels on the other tuner when a keypress hasn't been detected for over 30 minutes?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ciper said:


> The Tivo already keeps a log of keypresses. Why not leverage the existing log and only change channels on the other tuner when a keypress hasn't been detected for over 30 minutes?


Or just put it back to the way it was a few months ago....


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## jayhawk069 (Jan 6, 2008)

lafos said:


> The new logic caused me so much trouble that I turned suggestions off. Once a week I look at the suggestions it has found for me, and I record any that are of interest. I also get to give a Thumbs-Down to the suggestions that have no interest for me.


I thought that's what everybody did. To actually record all those suggestions sounds insane, I mean zany. I check suggestions daily though. I'm surprised how useful they've been.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Recording suggestions is free. It never skips or deletes a requested program to get a suggestion.

Instead of requesting suggestions to be recorded I go ahead and let them record and delete the ones I don't want to watch. This is less obtrusive on a dual tuner box than it would be on a single tuner.

Especially during the writers strike I'm getting more suggestions per day than scheduled recordings, but what of it?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> It never skips or deletes a requested program to get a suggestion.


Unless you try to change channels while a suggestion and normal recording is active and a bug in the software forces you to delete scheduled recording and not the suggestion.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jayhawk069 said:


> I thought that's what everybody did. To actually record all those suggestions sounds insane, I mean zany. I check suggestions daily though. I'm surprised how useful they've been.


it's not insane/zany for those of us who use it as a "free space indicator" proxy.


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## tdn (Mar 22, 2008)

We recently bought a Series3 and love it except for this issue. I signed up to the forum specifically to search for information about this question.

Same as others:
-watching live TV on tuner #1
-Tivo is recording a suggestion on tuner #2
-Tivo needs to start recording one of my Season Pass recordings

It asks to Change the channel or Cancel my *Season Pass* recording.

Why on earth would it ask to cancel my Season Pass recording instead of asking to cancel the Tivo suggestion????

If I'm not actually watching tv I won't answer and it can change the channel on tuner #1 for the Season Pass. If I am watching and cancel it can should kill the suggestion and switch the Season Pass recording to tuner #2 - period.

With due respect, the hit record tips are worthless. Turning of the suggestions is an ok suggestion, but we got Tivo specifically for this feature. Technology is supposed to make our lives easier and more comfortable, having to check it daily to decide which suggestions to record defeats the purpose. It should allow me to be lazy AND not interfere with what I'm doing. That is the point of technology enhancements.


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## Yankees251 (Mar 18, 2008)

tdn said:


> We recently bought a Series3 and love it except for this issue. I signed up to the forum specifically to search for information about this question.
> 
> Same as others:
> -watching live TV on tuner #1
> ...


Ditto, add me to the list.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

This is not an issue for me for the following reasons.

I have 89 seasons passes and my two terabytes of storage is constantly full with approximately 350 recordings as reported by Tivo Desktop software. No suggestions record because the storage is full with recordings that Tivo sees as a higher priority, since they were specifically requested. I cannot even find time to watch all those shows, so a surely do not need suggestions anyway.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

Adam1115 said:


> Yes, I'm talking about live tv only. I realized after others comments that it is alternating between tuners which is very annoying.
> 
> And to the 'just record everything people", that's what I've had to start doing. But telling the S3 to record 2 4 hour football games (with padding) in HD so that I can switch back and forth consumes about 80 GIGS of hard drive space. Telling it to do that (when I'm watching it live) results in a bunch of stuff getting deleted.


Upgrade to more hard drive space. You will never regret it.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

rainwater said:


> Of course, but how do you know which ones are? That is the whole point. Most people on this forum are power users and despise live tv. However, thinking everyone uses their TiVo like the power users on this forum is not very smart.


But what is smart is using it like a power user.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

kbmb said:


> I just picked up my first dual tuner Tivo...the TivoHD. I have3 S2 units dating back to 2003.
> 
> I am shocked to read about this.
> 
> ...


Why not just make a season pass for the 5 o'clock news and the other program on the food network?


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## Yankees251 (Mar 18, 2008)

PrincetonTech said:


> Why not just make a season pass for the 5 o'clock news and the other program on the food network?


No good, then you are filling up TiVo with unnecessary recordings, which you'll have to delete at some point.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

With KeepAtMost=1 the number of unnecessary recordings is <=2, and you never have to delete if you don't want to.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

Yankees251 said:


> No good, then you are filling up TiVo with unnecessary recordings, which you'll have to delete at some point.


Thats why I upgraded to 1 TB internal and 1 TB external. Tivo Desktop reports that I have 340+ recordings waiting to be watched any any given time.


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## walueg (Sep 9, 2002)

> With due respect, the hit record tips are worthless. Turning of the suggestions is an ok suggestion, but we got Tivo specifically for this feature. Technology is supposed to make our lives easier and more comfortable, having to check it daily to decide which suggestions to record defeats the purpose. It should allow me to be lazy AND not interfere with what I'm doing. That is the point of technology enhancements.


Hear! Hear! I'm tired of the Tivo interfering with me without warning. I'm having to work way harder than I used to to get good programming on the thing.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Holy bump..!

Is this problem still a problem...?

I haven't noticed the TiVo alternating tuners lately, but then again, I don't watch live tv much until football season...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Yankees251 said:


> No good, then you are filling up TiVo with unnecessary recordings, which you'll have to delete at some point.


not really. I have the morning and evening news on a Season pass. I set the Season pass to "Keep at Most 1"
Thus I ALWAYS have he latest newscast on my TiVo ready to give me the news when I want it but with nothing to delete ever as it automatically deletes the old one when the new one comes on.

as added bonus IF I have the TV on and watching something on live TV via TiVo - it changes to the news for me :up:

Live TV is a problem but how would anyone suggest TiVo prioritize things?

recording
suggestions
Live TV
leading to the issue

recording
Live TV 
suggestions
this would mean very few suggestions, and what if the person did indeed want the suggestion recorded?

to fix this specific thing then they would need a more complicated warning - for power users that would be great - asking me in essence which tuner to use
for people who do not care about the deeper workings - saying kill this or the other show which is recording would be a more complicated choice and outside the simple design TiVo strives for.

in short - the live TV versus suggestion is a more complicated thing from a design perspective than it seems

suggest


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## hagios (Mar 12, 2008)

sit and think...

which sounds better?

a. a life in which i am annoyed when i watch live TV BUT my TiVo does record shows that I didn't choose.

b. a life in which i am never annoyed when i watch live TV BUT TiVo Suggestions are disabled.

Sounds like an easy choice to me. If you are annoyed enough to fill up three pages of a thread with complaints, why don't you just turn off suggestions. what are you really losing? 

what are you losing right now with them on?

which is more important to you?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

hagios said:


> Sounds like an easy choice to me. If you are annoyed enough to fill up three pages of a thread with complaints, why don't you just turn off suggestions. what are you really losing?


Did you read this thread or just come to complain that there are 3 pages? Most of this thread involved discussing a bug in the software that caused a lot of interruptions of TV watching. One of the bugs was fixed in 9.3 (alternating tuners on all back to back recordings). The other outstanding bug (where changing channels while a suggestion and a scheduled recording are active can result in given only the option of canceling the scheduled recording) still exists. Many people get a lot of use out of suggestions. However, recent software updates have made this harder to do until the last update.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Live TV is a problem but how would anyone suggest TiVo prioritize things?


As has been discussed over and over:

Since dual tuner TiVo's came out, suggestions and season passes would automatically record on the IDLE tuner. Meaning if Tuner 1 is tuned to live tv and being displayed on your TV set, everything else would record on tuner 2 UNTIL both tuners were needed.

At some point in the last 6-8 months, a software updated changed this behavior to alternate tuners. Meaning if tuner 2 had just recorded a suggestion, the NEXT suggestion will change tuner 1, changing your live tv channel with no notice for no apparent reason.

It's also annoying when a merathon is recording because every half hour the tivo changes the live tv channel to record even though there is a second tuner doing absolutely nothing.,


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> As has been discussed over and over:
> 
> Since dual tuner TiVo's came out, suggestions and season passes would automatically record on the IDLE tuner. Meaning if Tuner 1 is tuned to live tv and being displayed on your TV set, everything else would record on tuner 2 UNTIL both tuners were needed.


right - that silly alternating tuner idea looked to me like the current way around the dilemna of how to prioritize things. I agree it needs to go as well.

but lets look at the example. First how can TiVo determine an actively viewed live buffer. Remote key entries would be indicative of course but not foolproof. I might be watching a football game or movie and have not even picked up the remote for 30 or more minutes.

so if they just have to rule out the tuner that is going to the TV then suggestions fight for time with scehduled recordings on the remaining tuner. In this case a suggestion was going and TiVo asked to use the TV aimed tuner.

What if am watching two football games and for some reason became engrossed in one game and had watched it for 40 minutes but mean to go back to the other tuner and catch up on that action.

in short there is no actual logic to follow on 
recordings 
suggestions
live TV
that works for all cases.

so recordings will happen of course and live TV or suggestions will get shoved around as a result. I have multiple TiVo DVRS so I just turned suggestions off on the one we tend to wtach the most.
I also put in large drives and figured out ways to record most anything I would watch anyhow (news set at Keep at most-=1 for example)

so in my case I would prefer on one TiVo that Live TV is ranked above suggestions. on my other TiVo I would prefer suggestions is ranked above live TV. That is a problem for the TiVo software designers


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> right - that silly alternating tuner idea looked to me like the current way around the dilemna of how to prioritize things. I agree it needs to go as well.


Alternating tuners were fixed in 9.3. It no longer alternates tuners on back to back recordings.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Alternating tuners were fixed in 9.3. It no longer alternates tuners on back to back recordings.


I thought that might be the case, I have not noticed any alternating tuners any time recently.


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