# Question about using Tivo Mini with Comcast.



## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I don't have a Tivo Mini yet.

But I was looking at my Comcast bill. It says this:

"
X1 Starter Double Play

*Includes Digital Starter and Streampix for Primary Outlet*, HD
Technology Fee, and Performance Pro Internet".

Does this mean that if I get a Tivo Mini and connect it to another outlet, that I won't get channels in HD? Why do they specify the primary outlet?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

This article mentions an additional outlet fee:

Comcast will charge subscribers to use their Roku as a cable box


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

If you already have a working TiVo with a cablecard installed, then you are already paying for the tuners that are connecting to Comcast. They have no way of knowing that you've added a Mini to your system, and that isn't really any of their business. A mini can access any channel that your TiVo can, since the mini just borrows a tuner from the TiVo.

Comcast charges vary depending on region. I've never paid an HD fee, and my TiVos have always been able to receive HD channels. But, it sounds like it is already bundled into your X1 Starter Double Play package.

I was at a local Xfinity store just last week because my bill shot up, as it always does in August. The first cablecard is supposed to be free, and a $1.50 charge for a 2nd cablecard in the same device. I have a Roamio Plus and a Premiere, so I have two cablecards. I asked why I was being charged two $1.50 fees, and they said they entered into their system that way to avoid tacking on the $10 "additional outlet" fee. Fine by me. I ended up with a triple-play package, even though I don't use their VOIP service because I've got Ooma.

Checked out Xfinity Mobile while I was there. Ended up going back the next day to sign up with a "bring your own device" plan. Voice and text is free, data is $12/GB but the first 100MB is free. So, if I can keep my data usage below 100MB/mo, I'll only have to pay about $3/mo for taxes and minor fees. Since I've avoided cell phones until now, and am not addicted to data intense services, I think I'll be able to do it. They also have an "unlimited" plan for a flat $45/mo, but I won't be needing that.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

nuraman00 said:


> Does this mean that if I get a Tivo Mini and connect it to another outlet, that I won't get channels in HD? Why do they specify the primary outlet?


No. You will not connect your Mini to a "Comcast outlet", you will connect it to your TiVo by Ethernet or MOCA. By "outlet" Comcast means a cable outlet for their service. The Mini is between you and TiVo, Comcast is not involved.

If you get HD on your Roamio or Bolt, you'll get HD on your Mini. You'll get exactly the channels on the Mini you get on your Roamio or Bolt.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

snerd said:


> If you already have a working TiVo with a cablecard installed, then you are already paying for the tuners that are connecting to Comcast. *They have no way of knowing that you've added a Mini to your system, and that isn't really any of their business. * A mini can access any channel that your TiVo can, since the mini just borrows a tuner from the TiVo.
> 
> Comcast charges vary depending on region. I've never paid an HD fee, and my TiVos have always been able to receive HD channels. But, it sounds like it is already bundled into your X1 Starter Double Play package.
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks.

(Also thanks for sharing your experience with the Xfinity Mobile plan.)

I was worried that somehow the MoCa connection that I would be doing wouldn't work.

Speaking of a MoCa connection, do I already have one set up?

Right now, my Tivo downstairs is connected via Ethernet to the router, and via coax from the wall.

My Tivo is configured for a wired connection in the network settings.

If I were to get a Tivo Mini for upstairs, if I connect the coax coming from the upstairs wall to the Tivo Mini, is my setup complete? I don't have Ethernet access upstairs.

Would I have to do any additional configuration on the main unit downstairs?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ej42137 said:


> No. *You will not connect your Mini to a "Comcast outlet", you will connect it to your TiVo by Ethernet or MOCA. By "outlet" Comcast means a cable outlet for their service. The Mini is between you and TiVo, Comcast is not involved.*
> 
> If you get HD on your Roamio or Bolt, you'll get HD on your Mini. You'll get exactly the channels on the Mini you get on your Roamio or Bolt.


Thank you.

(Also, I have a Premiere XL4).


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

It sounds like it should be pretty easy to get a working MoCA network in your house.

You may need to add a PoE filter to the input port of the splitter that connects to your comcast feed. Your Premier has MoCA capability built-in, but you will need to be sure that the Premiere is configured as a MoCA bridge so that ethernet signal from the router will be converted to MoCA signals on the coax. After those steps, you should be able to connect a Mini with coax to the wall and configure the Mini to connect using MoCA.

If that doesn't work, we can take a closer look at how everything is connected (especially coax connections) to get everything working as it should.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Just thinking about the coax setup a little more.

There used to be satellite several years ago, before I moved in.

When I moved in, the Comcast technician had to do something outside to make sure the downstairs outlet was getting cable now.

I've been wondering whether the upstairs outlets are still connected to the satellite, or cable.

Let's say I get the Tivo mini upstairs, and connect the coax. But it's not working (I'm not able to access the Tivo).

Would I then have to have a Comcast technician come and look at the outlet upstairs? When the technician came a few years ago, he said he'd probably have to do something to configure the upstairs outlets, and it would cost $50 per outlet. Not having a TV upstairs at the time, I declined.

Would I tell Comcast "the outlet isn't working" and try to get them to fix it without being charged?

The other question is, how does the Tivo recognize that a Mini is connected to it? And will there be a special configuration just for the Mini, to tell it to connect via MoCa? Or is the configuration I change, going to be applied more globally?


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

> Let's say I get the Tivo mini upstairs, and connect the coax. But it's not working (I'm not able to access the Tivo).
> 
> Would I then have to have a Comcast technician come and look at the outlet upstairs? When the technician came a few years ago, he said he'd probably have to do something to configure the upstairs outlets, and it would cost $50 per outlet. Not having a TV upstairs at the time, I declined.


Chances are, they just cut the coax for the other rooms and left the ends of the coax dangling somewhere near the main splitter.

Before you try plugging in a Mini to see if it might just work, you need to install a PoE filter. Perhaps you can take a picture of the main splitter and post it here?



> Would I tell Comcast "the outlet isn't working" and try to get them to fix it without being charged?


That depends on whether you're willing to try to fix it yourself. You'd probably need a crimp tool to attach new ends to the cables, and might have to buy a new splitter, but it isn't difficult. Something like this might be all you need.



> The other question is, how does the Tivo recognize that a Mini is connected to it? And will there be a special configuration just for the Mini, to tell it to connect via MoCa? Or is the configuration I change, going to be applied more globally?


The TiVo and Mini would both need to have settings changed to use MoCA, otherwise they default to connecting through ethernet.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

snerd said:


> Chances are, they just cut the coax for the other rooms and left the ends of the coax dangling somewhere near the main splitter.
> 
> Before you try plugging in a Mini to see if it might just work, you need to install a PoE filter. Perhaps you can take a picture of the main splitter and post it here?
> 
> ...


You mean my main splitter downstairs? I have a splitter where one output goes to my cable modem, and the other goes to my Tivo. Before the splitter, I have the coax line from the wall going into my APC BR1500MS battery backup and surge protector, then out from the APC into the splitter.

How would this help figure out what my upstairs outlet is connected to?

Or, is there another main splitter somewhere else? Such as outside. I remember the technician did something outside.

I think I see what you mean in this guide:

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Installation_Setup_Configuration/MoCA-Networking-Help

I'll take a picture of coax coming from the wall downstairs.

https://i.imgur.com/8V5idtV.jpg

I'll also take a picture of the coax coming from the wall upstairs.

https://i.imgur.com/DWNUxei.jpg

Here is the splitter I have downstairs, that's coming in from the APC battery backup, and is going out to my cable modem and Tivo.

https://i.imgur.com/dKL960F.jpg

So which of these places would I need the PoE filter?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

And what's the correct way to install a PoE filter? So it's not backwards.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> And what's the correct way to install a PoE filter? So it's not backwards.


MoCA filters are not directional they will work in either direction.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

By "main splitter" I mean the one that the main feed from Comcast connects to. This might be outside your house in a small box attached to the side of the house, or it could be inside the house tucked away in an inconspicuous location. That guide from the TiVo does show what I mean, but they show a section of coax between the PoE filter and the main splitter. It is best to connect the PoE filter directly to the splitter rather than having any coax between the PoE and the splitter.

You can envision all the splitters and coax cables as forming a "tree" structure, with each splitter adding new branches to the tree. The PoE filter should attach at the "root" of the tree, which is the input port of the main splitter. Any "receiver" devices that get signals from the coax, such as a TV, cable box, TiVo, or Mini, can be viewed as "leaves" of the tree.

The TiVo talks to the Mini by sending signals back through the coax, down all the branches until the signals reach the root, where the signals reflect off the PoE filter (it acts like a mirror). After reflecting off the PoE filter, the signals go up through all the branches back to the leaves. If everything connects correctly, one of those leaves will be the Mini, and the TiVo will be able to commuicate with the Mini. If coax from the mini is not connected correctly, then they won't be able to communicate. So, if you're lucky and the room where you want the Mini is already connected correctly to the rest of the coax in the house, then all you need is a PoE filter at the root so that signals from the TiVo will be reflected back to the Mini.

The PoE filter has male threads on one side and female threads on the other side, so there is only one way to (easily) connect it directly to the main splitter. The tricky part is finding the main splitter, where the Comcast feed first touches coax that goes to the rest of the house. The splitter connecting the APC to the cable modem and TiVo is *not* the main splitter.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

fcfc2 said:


> MoCA filters are not directional they will work in either direction.


Note that what fcfc2 means is that from an electrical perspective, PoE filters behave the same way for signals that reach the PoE from either side.

Physically, the PoE filter is asymmetric, with different threads on each end, so there is only one way to connect it. Although it is possible to connect them in either direction, it takes extra coax and some funky adapters to connect one so that the signals flow in the opposite direction. It would still work if connected "backwards" but it would be a silly thing to do.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

The few cable tv low pass filters that I've opened up have all been first-order RL filters as best I could tell by looking. Since R is the load and the L (inductor that looks like a chunk of metal with or without a coil around it) is the only other component, it works the same forward or backward. But as snerd said, you really have to go out of your way and add some gender changers to connect it backwards, and it makes no difference if you do so.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

snerd said:


> By "main splitter" I mean the one that the main feed from Comcast connects to. This might be outside your house in a small box attached to the side of the house, or it could be inside the house tucked away in an inconspicuous location.


This is what it looks like in the backyard, outside my downstairs wall. I can't follow the wire anymore. It goes to the roof and I can't see where it goes after that.

I'm not sure if it's supposed to go to the roof if I'm using cable, but it does.

https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

And thanks everyone for letting me know that the PoE filter realistically only goes one way.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

nuraman00 said:


> This is what it looks like in the backyard, outside my downstairs wall. I can't follow the wire anymore. It goes to the roof and I can't see where it goes after that.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's supposed to go to the roof if I'm using cable, but it does.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg


OK, so there's no utility box outside, just the coax feeding into a hole in the wall. The coax going up to the roof probably just continues to a nearby telephone pole where it connects to a "tap" on thick coax near the street.

That is also how my house is connected. You need to find the other side of that coax inside your house, where it should connect to the main splitter, and that is where to add the PoE filter (if there isn't already a PoE in place).


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> This is what it looks like in the backyard, outside my downstairs wall. I can't follow the wire anymore. It goes to the roof and I can't see where it goes after that.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's supposed to go to the roof if I'm using cable, but it does.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg


Interesting, in most places code requires a grounding connection which I don't see any indication of, and unless there is one connected inside wherever your first splitter is, you might want to question whoever your ISP is. 
As mentioned before, the ideal placement for a MoCA filter would be on the input of the first/main splitter, but in a pinch or if inaccessible, you could place the filter at the location pictured. This would still secure your MoCA network it just isn't quite as good for the internal MoCA strength. Also, although most MoCA filters have one male and one female end, there are some available with integrated grounding blocks which have male threads on both ends. MoCA filter with ground | eBay


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

Just take your Tivo upstairs and connect it into the cable outlet and a TV, If you get a signal and tv works now you know your outlet is still connected.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

snerd said:


> OK, so there's no utility box outside, just the coax feeding into a hole in the wall. The coax going up to the roof probably just continues to a nearby telephone pole where it connects to a "tap" on thick coax near the street.
> 
> That is also how my house is connected. You need to find the other side of that coax inside your house, where it should connect to the main splitter, and that is where to add the PoE filter (if there isn't already a PoE in place).


I don't think I can track it further. To recap, here is the coax outside the wall, downstairs:

https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg

Here is the coax from the same wall, on the inside:

https://i.imgur.com/8V5idtV.jpg

And here is that same coax, going to my APC battery backup, then from the battery backup to this splitter:

https://i.imgur.com/dKL960F.jpg

Then, from this splitter, one end goes to my cable modem, and the other goes to my Tivo.



fcfc2 said:


> Interesting, in most places code requires a grounding connection which I don't see any indication of, and unless there is one connected inside wherever your first splitter is, you might want to question whoever your ISP is.
> As mentioned before, the ideal placement for a MoCA filter would be on the input of the first/main splitter, but in a pinch or if inaccessible, you could place the filter at the location pictured. This would still secure your MoCA network it just isn't quite as good for the internal MoCA strength. Also, although most MoCA filters have one male and one female end, there are some available with integrated grounding blocks which have male threads on both ends. MoCA filter with ground | eBay


Based on my latest recap, what do you think I should do?



schatham said:


> Just take your Tivo upstairs and connect it into the cable outlet and a TV, If you get a signal and tv works now you know your outlet is still connected.


I might try that at some point. I wanted to see if I could understand the setup, and where I might need a MoCA filter downstairs, before trying that.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> I don't think I can track it further. To recap, here is the coax outside the wall, downstairs:
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg
> 
> ...


"Based on my latest recap, what do you think I should do?" As mentioned previously, call your ISP and ask about the fact that their coax appears to be un-grounded and that you believe that is required by code....
If you can get access to the first splitter to enter your home, get an install a standard MoCA filter on it's input. If that is not an option, then, I would get one like I linked to, remove the barrel connector and install it at the pictured location. 
If you cannot get a response from your ISP regarding the lack of ground, I would then look for the main ground, usually a piece of rebar driven into the ground, often nearby close to where your electric meter is, and after buying the appropriate connector, run at least a 12gauge grounding wire from that main ground back to your cable is connected via the combo grounding block/MoCA filter.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

The ground is a big deal. You're taking a big gamble without it. My parent's house had ungrounded cable. A storm came, and a surge zapped nearly everything connected to that coax - modem, TV, etc. When I called the cable company and told them what had happened, they came and grounded it the same day, no charge of course. They also replaced their modem, and I was able to get the main board in the TV replaced under warranty (just parts, I did the labor myself). If not for that, I'd have made them pay for all the damage and they would have been liable since they violated code.

While my case was just a big inconvenience, it could have been much worse (fire, injury, death). That's why we have codes.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

nuraman00 said:


> I don't think I can track it further. To recap, here is the coax outside the wall, downstairs:
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg
> 
> ...


If the coax enters through the wall and only goes through the APC to a splitter that feeds your cable modem and TiVo, and that is truly the main feed from Comcast, then there is no connection to any other rooms in the house.

Now I'm wondering if there might be a junction box somewhere on your roof (possibly with a ground connection) or in an attic? The coax on the upstairs wall needs to meet up with the other coax in order to make a MoCA connection.

Are there other rooms with coax wall plates? If so, then there must be additional splitters somewhere to connect everything together. I think you're going to need to map out all the coax in your house before we can determine whether or not your TiVo will be able to communicate with a Mini.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

snerd said:


> If the coax enters through the wall and only goes through the APC to a splitter that feeds your cable modem and TiVo, and that is truly the main feed from Comcast, then there is no connection to any other rooms in the house.
> 
> Now I'm wondering if there might be a junction box somewhere on your roof (possibly with a ground connection) or in an attic? The coax on the upstairs wall needs to meet up with the other coax in order to make a MoCA connection.
> 
> *Are there other rooms with coax wall plates? If so, then there must be additional splitters somewhere to connect everything together. I think you're going to need to map out all the coax in your house before we can determine whether or not your TiVo will be able to communicate with a Mini.*


2 other rooms upstairs have coax wall plates. So there's 3 total rooms upstairs (one of them which has my new 2nd TV) with coax wall plates.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

fcfc2 said:


> "Based on my latest recap, what do you think I should do?" As mentioned previously, call your ISP and ask about the fact that their coax appears to be un-grounded and that you believe that is required by code....
> If you can get access to the first splitter to enter your home, get an install a standard MoCA filter on it's input. If that is not an option, then, I would get one like I linked to, remove the barrel connector and install it at the pictured location.
> If you cannot get a response from your ISP regarding the lack of ground, I would then look for the main ground, usually a piece of rebar driven into the ground, often nearby close to where your electric meter is, and after buying the appropriate connector, run at least a 12gauge grounding wire from that main ground back to your cable is connected via the combo grounding block/MoCA filter.





mdavej said:


> The ground is a big deal. You're taking a big gamble without it. My parent's house had ungrounded cable. A storm came, and a surge zapped nearly everything connected to that coax - modem, TV, etc. When I called the cable company and told them what had happened, they came and grounded it the same day, no charge of course. They also replaced their modem, and I was able to get the main board in the TV replaced under warranty (just parts, I did the labor myself). If not for that, I'd have made them pay for all the damage and they would have been liable since they violated code.
> 
> While my case was just a big inconvenience, it could have been much worse (fire, injury, death). That's why we have codes.


I'll call Comcast and tell them that I can't find the ground for my coax cable. And that I want to find it so I can put a MoCA filter.

I'll also tell them that I'm not sure if my outlets upstairs are connected.

Hopefully I can get them come look at it, in a free appointment.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I called Comcast.

They said I could put a MoCA filter where my wall plate is inside.

They said they could send a technician to check where the ground for the coax cable is.

And to see if my upstairs outlets are working.

However, if they find that there aren't any problems with the service, then it would be a $40 fee.

I made an appointment for September 15th.

They had an opening on August 26th, but I thought that was too soon.

There's no cancellation fee.

What do you think about what the technician said?

Should I also try taking my Tivo upstairs and connecting it to the coax? Would I be able to see TV service without doing any kind of setup in my upstairs TV? I don't have Ethernet upstairs, so it wouldn't be able to connect to the Tivo service.

Is this something I can to to help verify that a Mini would eventually work?


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Putting a MoCA filter at a wall plate will just confine MoCA signals to that one room, so that can't work.

A MoCA filter acts like a mirror and reflects MoCA signals so that they are blocked from going through the filter, while allowing lower frequencies used by TV and modem to pass through.

Yes, you could try connecting your TiVo to the upstairs coax and TV to see if you get any cable signals. The TiVo can work temporarily without an ethernet connection as long as it was working before you move it. If the TV can be moved easily, you could try to TiVo in each room to see if signals are reaching each of the wall plates.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

snerd said:


> Putting a MoCA filter at a wall plate will just confine MoCA signals to that one room, so that can't work.
> 
> A MoCA filter acts like a mirror and reflects MoCA signals so that they are blocked from going through the filter, while allowing lower frequencies used by TV and modem to pass through.
> 
> Yes, you could try connecting your TiVo to the upstairs coax and TV to see if you get any cable signals. The TiVo can work temporarily without an ethernet connection as long as it was working before you move it. If the TV can be moved easily, you could try to TiVo in each room to see if signals are reaching each of the wall plates.


I'll try bringing the Tivo upstairs this weekend.

I can't move the upstairs TV easily. It's wall mounted.

I'll also try to look around outside again this weekend.

I'm hoping to figure out where to put this MoCA filter without paying for the service fee.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I placed an order for a MoCA filter. Since I'll need one.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

On a side note, I don't exactly trust Comcast when they say they'll charge for the appointment if there's a service problem on their end.

When I set up the initial service 3+ years ago, I told them that my coax lines were connected to satellite, and not cable, and that's why nothing was working.

They said according to their records, that the house was wired for coax, and therefore it should work. But, if the service wasn't working and they had to make it work, then they wouldn't charge for the installation appointment.

Which is similar to what they're saying for this upcoming appointment.

However, when the technician actually got there, he told me the reverse. He said that if if he had to make any changes behind a wall, or do anything to make the service work, then he'd be charging for the appointment. I told him this directly conflicted with what I was told over the phone.

He ended up having to re-wire the outside so it wasn't connected to the satellite anymore, and it was connected to cable. 

He also billed the appointment as a "no-show" so I wouldn't be charged. Or he did something so I got a "credit" in the amount the appointment was for. However, the fact that I got a different answer from him as to whether I'd be billed, vs. what I was told over the phone, makes me nervous about this upcoming appointment.

That's why I delayed it for a few weeks, and that's why I'm trying to do what I can to avoid keeping the appointment. So I want to find the correct place to put the MoCA filter. 

I'll report back later this weekend.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Typically, and outside initial installation, if the issue is with the in-home coax then you get billed; if the issue is with Comcast equipment or outside coax them you don't get charged.

edit: p.s. ...


nuraman00 said:


> On a side note, I don't exactly trust Comcast when they say they'll charge for the appointment if there's a service problem on their end.


This seems the opposite of their stated policy, no charge if the issue is on their side, but a charge if the issue is with your in-home coax.

In a similar situation, I've read of some customers ordering the X1 whole home setup with free installation in order to get the additional rooms wired and MoCA'fied, and then exercising the 30-day Money Back Guarantee option to cancel the X1 service and return the associated equipment, and resuming their previous service plan - but now with additional rooms connected.

Honestly, though, just paying the technician fee seems a simpler approach.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

schatham said:


> Just take your Tivo upstairs and connect it into the cable outlet and a TV, If you get a signal and tv works now you know your outlet is still connected.


A cable modem can also be used for this purpose, with the benefit that the modem doesn't require a TV monitor; you just connect the modem to the wall outlet and see if it is able to establish a connection, based on the modem's status LEDs. (Probably wouldn't want to try this testing while anyone else is looking to use the Internet.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> To recap, here is the coax outside the wall, downstairs:
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg​
> Here is the coax from the same wall, on the inside:
> ...


So these pictures then show both sides of the wall for one room's coax feed, from inside and from outside the house. Correct?

Are the coax outlets for the upstairs rooms similarly situated on exterior walls and, if so, are there similar entry points to what's pictured for each room from outside?

Given you said this was a satellite setup in the past, can you see where the satellite dish is/was located and trace coax cabling from that point to the upstairs rooms, or anywhere else?

Do you have an attic? A basement? Closets? A crawl space? If the satellite setup had multiple rooms connected then there has to be a splitter somewhere, or some location with several disconnected coax cables. The coax runs to the upstairs rooms have to originate somewhere.

Have you looked behind the wall plate(s) to see if splitters are hidden within the walls?

In regards to the one pic from outside, can you provide some insight on all the various cables included?






​


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> So these pictures then show both sides of the wall for one room's coax feed, from inside and from outside the house. Correct?


Correct. Those pictures show the outside of the downstairs wall, and the inside of the same wall.



krkaufman said:


> Do you have an attic? A basement? Closets? A crawl space? If the satellite setup had multiple rooms connected then there has to be a splitter somewhere, or some location with several disconnected coax cables. The coax runs to the upstairs rooms have to originate somewhere.


I have an attic.

Also, I took my Tivo upstairs to the Sony today, just to see if it would work. I was able to watch live TV. So it looks like the coax upstairs is properly wired?

So we just have to figure out where to put the MoCA filter?

With regards to the notes you put on the picture:

* Yes, the two parts you circled and asked if it was the same line inside and outside. Yes, they are the same line.

* The one you asked if the coax line was heading towards the roof, yes it is.

* The ones where you asked "What's this line? Where is it going" those are coax lines coming from some sort of satellite box. I'll upload a picture. But, all of the coax lines coming from the satellite box don't really go anywhere now, since they're not actually connected to the wall plate downstairs. They are just hanging there.

Here are more pictures:

Let's focus on the bright white coax. That's the line you marked "What's this line? Where is it going". I'll show how it goes to the DirecTV satellite box.

Here's another picture of the line, but this time clearly cut:

https://i.imgur.com/QNItBNM.jpg

It continues here:

https://i.imgur.com/pVyXbYx.jpg

Then goes up the side, next to the drain pipe:

https://i.imgur.com/G1NZY8f.jpg

Then to this DirecTV junction box thing.

https://i.imgur.com/d6AQCCu.jpg

You'll also see another darker white coax cable going around the side of the house. That's the one that is is connected to the downstairs inside splitter.

I followed that cable around the back of the house, then to the other side of the house:

It went to this splitter:

https://i.imgur.com/LPO1w4d.jpg

That splitter goes to 2 rooms upstairs. One of them is the room where I have my new upstairs TV.

Also, the same coax cable that's coming into my downstairs wall, also goes to the roof in this manner. This is why I said I can't follow it too much anymore:

https://i.imgur.com/QxaAEsl.jpg

I did eventually see the coax coming down the roof, into this area. Is any of this helpful?

https://i.imgur.com/O2CbafV.jpg

Also, in your notes, you asked if something was a phone line. It appears it is. But if I look on the inside of the house, where it is going to, I just see some sort of phone filter hanging there.

I do have a land line set up. I have a Ooma VoIP device, and the output phone jack is split two ways. One is going to a phone handset, and the other is going to a wall phone jack. Connecting to the wall phone jack gives the other phones in the house an active phone line.

The wall phone jack that the phone line is doing to, is not the same as that other wall where I said there's just a phone filter hanging there.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Typically, and outside initial installation, if the issue is with the in-home coax then you get billed; if the issue is with Comcast equipment or outside coax them you don't get charged.
> 
> edit: p.s. ...
> 
> ...


It does.

Also, when I initially called, they told me the fee was $79. Then they put be on hold, and said it was $39.99.

That's better. But I still have a feeling that if the technician comes, the technician will say that since the service is running, the technician is not going to install the MoCA filter, since it's not related to Comcast.

Or the technician is not going to check where the main splitter is. Or whether it's grounded.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Typically, and outside initial installation, if the issue is with the in-home coax then you get billed; if the issue is with Comcast equipment or outside coax them you don't get charged.
> 
> edit: p.s. ...
> *
> This seems the opposite of their stated policy, no charge if the issue is on their side, but a charge if the issue is with your in-home coax.*


I mis-typed when writing my earlier post.

I meant to say that both when I had my initial install, and when I called them a few days ago, they said no charge if the issue was on their side, so if they had to fix something to make the service work.

But, when the technician came during the initial install 3+ years ago, he said there would be a charge because he had to examine behind the wall. As well as cut the satellite and hook it up to the cable.

He later ended up either billing it as a no-show or somehow gave me a credit. But the fact that the technician initially said he would have to bill me to make the service work, makes me not trust them as much.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> I did eventually see the coax coming down the roof, into this area. Is any of this helpful?
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/O2CbafV.jpg


Yes, as that appears to be the elusive cable junction box ... and then some. That cable coming up from the ground is very likely your incoming coax feed from your cable provider, and inside one of those boxes is (very likely) the main splitter on whose input you would install the "PoE" MoCA filter. And it may also be the case that the necessary ground connection is being made inside one of these boxes, as well. (It's tough to make any further guesses without a pic from a different angle that clearly shows into which box all the cable runs from above are entering, or even better, a pic of the insides of those boxes.)

Did you try opening any of those three boxes? I can't tell from the pic which box that cable coming from the ground is entering; it looks like the top one, but the top box may just be obscuring the cable looping back down into the bottom box. Similarly, I can't tell from the pic how many cables are entering the bottom box in its upper right.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I tried opening a little bit, but I couldn't figure out how to open it. I'll try again later this week (probably Tuesday). And try to take better pictures of which box the cables are entering.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Also, I'm quoting these posts from one of the other threads, about Tivo and dynamic tuner allocation:



krkaufman said:


> Dynamic tuner allocation or not, you wouldn't be able to be recording 4 shows *and* watch live TV ... from the Mini or its host DVR ... unless you're watching one of the currently recording shows (or are using a 6-tuner Roamio or BOLT as the host DVR). That said, from all I've seen, 4-tuner Premiere's have dynamic tuner allocation, now; you could pose the question to the Premiere forum if you need to expedite a first-hand response.
> 
> p.s. I'm assuming you meant XL4, since a 4-tuner Premiere is required. 2-tuner Premiere's are not eligible to act as host DVR's for a Mini (which is a little surprising, since it seemingly could have been enabled once dynamic tuner allocation was released, although live TV conflicts would be more frequent with just 2 tuners to work with).





snerd said:


> If you want to be sure your Mini only uses a tuner when you're watching live TV, just hit the TiVo button to return to TiVo Central before turning off your TV. That will release the tuner. The Mini will also release the tuner after 4 hours of inactivity.


How do I tell how many turners are in use on a Tivo (without considering the mini right now)?

I can tell if there's a recording, then there will be a red light for every active recording.

But if I'm watching live TV, how do I see a tuner is being used?

And, can I also release a tuner by hitting the Tivo button with the main Tivo, like how was described with the Mini?

I'm also asking these questions, because once I get the mini, I want some visible way to know that if I'm watching live TV downstairs on the Tivo, and also watching live TV upstairs on the mini, that 2 tuners are being used.

And if I then hit the Tivo button on the Mini, then I can verify that a tuner is being released.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

nuraman00 said:


> How do I tell how many turners are in use on a Tivo (without considering the mini right now)?
> 
> I can tell if there's a recording, then there will be a red light for every active recording.
> 
> But if I'm watching live TV, how do I see a tuner is being used?


When watching live TV on my Roamio Plus (6 tuners), I use the INFO button followed by DOWN to show a list of channels that are active on the tuners. Those with a red dot are currently recording, while those with a gray dot are only buffering. Using RIGHT and UP/DOWN lets you select a tuner if you want to switch. Tuners that are in use by a Mini are marked "In use by ...." and can't be selected from the tuner list.



> And, can I also release a tuner by hitting the Tivo button with the main Tivo, like how was described with the Mini?


No, the tuners in the TiVo are always active (ignoring standby). My TiVos are configured so that hitting the TiVo button puts the live TV in a small window in the upper/right corner of the screen, so tuner allocation doesn't change by hitting the TiVo button.



> I'm also asking these questions, because once I get the mini, I want some visible way to know that if I'm watching live TV downstairs on the Tivo, and also watching live TV upstairs on the mini, that 2 tuners are being used.
> 
> And if I then hit the Tivo button on the Mini, then I can verify that a tuner is being released.


Use the tuner list, as described above. While watching live TV, hit INFO and DOWN to display the tuner list.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> I mis-typed when writing my earlier post.
> 
> I meant to say that both when I had my initial install, and when I called them a few days ago, they said no charge if the issue was on their side, so if they had to fix something to make the service work.
> 
> ...


That last photo reminds me of California a bit. It looks like you might have most all of your electric, catv, phone etc. right in those boxes. The upper right looks like it might be your electric service box where your breakers are located. There is smaller flush mounted box which may have your coax connections. Also, I see a green wire 9normally used for a ground running up along the conduit which may be connected via a clamp to that conduit. Not sure what the other boxes are, looks a bit like possibly phone and or an old Fios ONT. 
In any case, these boxes are the place to explore for your connections. Good luck


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> You'll also see another darker white coax cable going around the side of the house. ... I followed that cable around the back of the house, then to the other side of the house: ... It went to this splitter:
> 
> *https://i.imgur.com/LPO1w4d.jpg*


Which of the cables heading left out of the image, the top or bottom cable, is the cable that you followed from around the house?

And do you have a pic where the coax enters your other upstairs rooms from outside? (I believe you said that you have coax outlets in 3 rooms upstairs, but only one upstairs entry point has been pictured.)



nuraman00 said:


> You'll also see another darker white coax cable going around the side of the house. That's the one that is is connected to the *downstairs inside splitter*.


This doesn't seem correct, from my understanding of previous posts and what I can make out from the images posted.

Isn't the "downstairs inside splitter" just on the other side of the wall at that entry point beneath the DirecTV device, per your earlier post....?


nuraman00 said:


> To recap, here is the coax outside the wall, downstairs:
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iQkCiiH.jpg
> 
> ...



p.s. My current (mis)understanding of your cabling...






​


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Which of the cables heading left out of the image, the top or bottom cable, is the cable that you followed from around the house?
> 
> And do you have a pic where the coax enters your other upstairs rooms from outside? (I believe you said that you have coax outlets in 3 rooms upstairs, but only one upstairs entry point has been pictured.)


The bottom cable is the one I followed around the house. You see an entry point to one room upstairs.

There's another entry point if you follow the top cable that's heading left. Shortly off-screen is the other entry point.

The 3rd upstairs room also has an entry point. At some point on the roof, there must be another splitter that has one end go to the 3rd upstairs entry point.

As to the image you posted:

https://www.tivocommunity.com/community/index.php?attachments/patchwork-jpg.36204/

Yeah, there are 3 lines under the eaves. That's why it was confusing to me. One of those might be diverging and going to upstairs room # 3.

All of those coax lines near the electrical box area are coming from the roof.

I haven't tried to open one of the electrical boxes again. As I said, I might do it on Tuesday.

Either I'll be able to open it; or I'll take more pictures of the area to see if we can get any more clues; or I'll have the technician come and figure out how to open it and install the MoCA filter.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I have the MoCA filter now, it arrived.

Now that I'm looking at it closely, I just have to ask, to make sure.

This is NOT a MoCA filter coming from my downstairs wall plate, correct?

https://i.imgur.com/8V5idtV.jpg

I also don't see anything like that coming from my upstairs wall plate, just a regular coax connector:

https://i.imgur.com/DWNUxei.jpg


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> I have the MoCA filter now, it arrived.
> 
> Now that I'm looking at it closely, I just have to ask, to make sure.
> 
> ...


No NOT a MoCA filter, it's just a normal compression fitting. 
Your second photo is just a plastic cover with a hole drilled in the center, then you see 2 different style compression connectors joined with a barrel connector.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Sorry for the delay. Once I realized that I needed a screwdriver to open the electrical box, and given how weekday evenings didn't have the best lighting conditions, I thought I would wait for the weekend to open the box.

Here's the big box, with the splitter:

https://i.imgur.com/M3Jiyo5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pwIp95T.jpg

So I should put the MoCA filter before it reaches the IN port?

After I installed it, if I can still watch live TV and get internet, then it means I installed it correctly?

After I install the MoCA filter, should I change my Tivo settings to use a MoCA connection instead of an Ethernet connection, even though I don't have the Tivo Mini yet? If I do change the settings, can I still verify it's working correctly without the Tivo Mini?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> After I installed it, if I can still watch live TV and get internet, then it means I installed it correctly?


The MoCA filter's installation should have no effect on tuning/viewing/recording content on your DVR, the XL4, even if installed in the wrong location. The MoCA filter's function is to block MoCA signals from leaving the house, and leaves the CATV/BB signals mostly untouched (w/ just a minimal signal loss). You wouldn't see any effect from an incorrect installation until you attempt to initialize your MoCA network on the XL4 (e.g. an improperly installed MoCA filter might result in the XL4 reporting visibility of MoCA clients that you don't have) or attempt to connect a MoCA client from another location in the home (e.g. the client may not have connectivity to the XL4, may connect to a MoCA node outside your home, etc.).



nuraman00 said:


> Here's the big box, with the splitter:
> ...
> https://i.imgur.com/pwIp95T.jpg


The pics don't provide sufficient detail to understand how this device connects to your coax lines (from the roof and the line from the ground). Did you open the other smaller plastic box? Did you trace all coax lines to just the big box? Can't the big box's whole front panel/door be swiveled open, rather than just the lower right panel?

Can you trace the coax lines connected to this device to where they're coming from... the coax line coming from the ground, coax runs coming from the roof, other? And when you can afford a brief Internet outage, you could try disconnecting either of the output ports from the device and see which output port affects your Internet connection.

It's possible that this single device provides the main split for your coax plant and, if so, the "PoE" MoCA filter would be installed directly on its input ("IN") port, rather than via a short coax cable:


snerd said:


> It is best to connect the PoE filter directly to the splitter rather than having any coax between the PoE and the splitter.



p.s. Also, from what I can see from the pics provided, that splitter (actually a "tap") isn't connected to Ground, so that issue remains open; though it appears also possible that the green wire mentioned by @fcfc2 is feeding into the big box via the same opening as the incoming coax cable, and there's a ground block hidden behind the unopened larger panel on the big box. For that matter, it's also possible that a "PoE" MoCA filter is also already (sub-optimally) located behind the unopened panel.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.p.s. My current understanding...








​
edit: to be discussed: tap vs splitter for main splitter, MoCA-compatible splittters, maintaining all connections vs optimizing for upstairs TV location only


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> After I install the MoCA filter, should I change my Tivo settings to use a MoCA connection instead of an Ethernet connection, even though I don't have the Tivo Mini yet? If I do change the settings, can I still verify it's working correctly without the Tivo Mini?


The XL4 will remain connected via Ethernet and will maintain its Ethernet configuration, necessary to bridge the MoCA/coax segment over to the router. When ready to activate MoCA bridging within the XL4, you'll additionlly configure the XL4 to act as a MoCA bridge.

That said, *at any time* you could enable the MoCA bridge within the XL4, before or after you install the "PoE" MoCA filter; however, you wouldn't want to leave MoCA active in the XL4 without the "PoE" MoCA filter being in place. (e.g. You could enable MoCA in the XL4 *before* putting the "PoE" MoCA filter in place simply to see if the XL4 is able to see any other MoCA nodes -- e.g. neighbors' gear. These foreign nodes should then NOT be visible once the "PoE" MoCA filter is properly installed.) This extra step isn't necessary, so once you know where the MoCA filter needs to go, it's simplest to just get it in place.

Without another MoCA node beside the XL4 on your coax plant, the XL4's MoCA bridge will report as down. You'll need a Mini or some other MoCA node reachable on your coax plant to validate the XL4's MoCA bridging.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> The MoCA filter's installation should have no effect on tuning/viewing/recording content on your DVR, the XL4, even if installed in the wrong location. The MoCA filter's function is to block MoCA signals from leaving the house, and leaves the CATV/BB signals mostly untouched (w/ just a minimal signal loss). You wouldn't see any effect from an incorrect installation until you attempt to initialize your MoCA network on the XL4 (e.g. an improperly installed MoCA filter might result in the XL4 reporting visibility of MoCA clients that you don't have) or attempt to connect a MoCA client from another location in the home (e.g. the client may not have connectivity to the XL4, may connect to a MoCA node outside your home, etc.).
> 
> The pics don't provide sufficient detail to understand how this device connects to your coax lines (from the roof and the line from the ground). Did you open the other smaller plastic box? Did you trace all coax lines to just the big box? Can't the big box's whole front panel/door be swiveled open, rather than just the lower right panel?
> 
> ...





krkaufman said:


> p.p.s. My current understanding...
> 
> View attachment 36298
> 
> ...


Yes, your new understanding is correct.

Here are more pics from the roof, going downwards.

I couldn't open the big box's whole panel. The best I could do was tilt it a little toward me, but not actually open it. I could only open the lower right panel on the big box. There's a message that says customer access only for the lower right panel too.

https://i.imgur.com/YOFaFwy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/o8Lr8V8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hl35KmB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/15PumjX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0oj0Jrc.jpg

Here's also the other small plastic box:

https://i.imgur.com/RK505Fx.jpg

It looks like it would be hard to unscrew to coax here, if I had to.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Any further advice, @krkaufman , @fcfc2?  Thanks.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

nuraman00 said:


> Any further advice, @krkaufman , @fcfc2?  Thanks.


My best suggestion for you is to call Comcast and tell them you are using MoCA and need to have them install a MoCA filter for you. It is possible they already have one installed in a drop box or wherever, but even if you have to pay, this is about the only way I can think of for you to get your MoCA working. I would also make it my business to ask the tech where you can get access to your wiring.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

fcfc2 said:


> My best suggestion for you is to call Comcast and tell them you are using MoCA and need to have them install a MoCA filter for you. It is possible they already have one installed in a drop box or wherever, but even if you have to pay, this is about the only way I can think of for you to get your MoCA working. I would also make it my business to ask the tech where you can get access to your wiring.


I have my appointment with Comcast set up for September 16th.

When I made the appointment in August, I asked them about the MoCA filter, but they were unable to provide any information over the phone. They just kept asking whether I had a problem with the service.

So the pictures I posted in post # 51 isn't enough, or isn't the right place?


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

nuraman00 said:


> When I made the appointment in August, I asked them about the MoCA filter, but they were unable to provide any information over the phone. They just kept asking whether I had a problem with the service.


I had a Comcast tech out here about three months ago, I was seeing random pixelation. While checking everything he installed a MOCA POE filter. I said I didn't think I needed it, my Mini's use ethernet. He said I did use MOCA on the Comcast side and their current policy was to install a POE filter in any residence that didn't already have one.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

DeltaOne said:


> I had a Comcast tech out here about three months ago, I was seeing random pixelation. While checking everything he installed a MOCA POE filter. I said I didn't think I needed it, my Mini's use ethernet. He said I did use MOCA on the Comcast side and their current policy was to install a POE filter in any residence that didn't already have one.


Thank you. Good to know that from your experience, they knew about the POE filter.

Hopefully the one that comes to my place can either check if there's one installed, or install the one I will provide.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Based on the pictures I posted in post # 51, does it look like I already have a POE filter installed?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> Based on the pictures I posted in post # 51, does it look like I already have a POE filter installed?


Can you see anything that looks similar to the following...






​
The "PoE" MoCA filter may be installed behind the portion of the panel you've been unable to open, including the possibility that it is built-in to the ground block (also hidden behind the closed section of the panel; e.g.. But no way to know for sure without opening the panel, which the tech will be able to do when they arrive.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

The technician came. He confirmed that the green wire from earlier photos is the ground.

https://i.imgur.com/o8Lr8V8.jpg

Apparently all I had to do to open the big portion of the box, was pull on both tabs. Lol.

He installed the MoCA filter.

https://i.imgur.com/Pg18EMp.jpg


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

nuraman00 said:


> He installed the MoCA filter.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/Pg18EMp.jpg


The "PoE" MoCA filter's current location will likely be OK, but the tech should have installed the MoCA filter on the input of the tap (the component over in the customer-accessible section of the panel) for best performance.

https://www.tivocommunity.com/community/index.php?attachments/big-box-annotated-jpg.36298/

... though the tech installing the filter where they did validates the earlier comments that the "PoE" MOCA filter might be hiding behind the unopened section of the panel.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> The "PoE" MoCA filter's current location will likely be OK, but the tech should have installed the MoCA filter on the input of the tap (the component over in the customer-accessible section of the panel) for best performance.


Agreed on general principle. This section of coax is short enough that it won't make a significant difference in signal strength.


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