# Big Brother 19 (Summer 2017) Live Feed and all *spoilers*



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Big Brother is coming soon, Wed June 28! Here's the new thread for pregame talk and live feed discussion. We usually have enough interested to do individual show threads after each episode but this is the season-long anything-goes spoiler thread.

Houseguests have been announced and it looks like all newbies unless they announce more later, or a twist adds more. And so has the theme: Summer of Temptation. They'll be offering up temptations for money, power, and safety however taking the temptations will have consequences. And pics of the updated house decor.

I'm looking forward to another fun summer of shows!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

As always looking forward to this. In some ways it's harder to play than Survivor, as it's much longer in duration and I would imagine that boredom must set in pretty quickly. The drama alone is worth the watch. I've watched every season but the first and the second Rachel season (I just could NOT stand another whole season of her).


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

without the benefit of watching any feeds, game play, or house interactions, my initial thoughts of this house full of newbies is a little disappointment with the ladies - while christmas shows great signs of promise, that's just about it (so far). while i expect both dominique & raven to be fun on the feeds, i'm not convinced of their abilities to navigate the game...we'll see. i'll be keeping an eye on elena during any small group late-night conversations, she may end up being this season's arryn.

on the other hand, the pool of guys appear at first to be a bit deeper - matthew, cameron, cody, possibly kevin, all looking to play with their heads in the game. josh could be trouble, i'm thinking he may very well be the willie hantz of bb19. ramses is the token nerd, token racial minority guy, and token gay, all rolled into one, which could end up being lots of fun. jason the rodeo clown? no...just no. and mark? both conjure images of jessie.

overall it appears to be a good mix of personalities and ages, even while a bit lacking in diversity (which isn't that surprising given bb's history with robin cass).

i've already made my player cheat sheet for the first eps, and can't wait for this season to begin!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> without the benefit of watching any feeds, game play, or house interactions, my initial thoughts of this house full of newbies is a little disappointment with the ladies - while christmas shows great signs of promise, that's just about it (so far). while i expect both dominique & raven to be fun on the feeds, i'm not convinced of their abilities to navigate the game...we'll see. i'll be keeping an eye on elena during any small group late-night conversations, she may end up being this season's arryn.
> 
> on the other hand, the pool of guys appear at first to be a bit deeper - matthew, cameron, cody, possibly kevin, all looking to play with their heads in the game. josh could be trouble, i'm thinking he may very well be the willie hantz of bb19. ramses is the token nerd, token racial minority guy, and token gay, all rolled into one, which could end up being lots of fun. jason the rodeo clown? no...just no. and mark? both conjure images of jessie.
> 
> ...


Player cheat sheet? You take this way too seriously!! 

It's a fun show, but three hours a week is plenty. I don't watch any live feeds, and only occasionally watch the After Dark stuff.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Any word on what channel After Dark will be on this year?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Player cheat sheet? You take this way too seriously!!


it's easier than trying to remember 12-16 names in the early weeks. 

eta: my list even has color pics of the new houseguests, along with short bios. when there's conversation about other hg's on after dark, it's the only way i can keep up with who they're gossiping about! at least until the herd is thinned a little...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pmyers said:


> Any word on what channel After Dark will be on this year?


pop

p.s. you'll need to create a new 1p for both the cbs airings and after dark on pop, neither are working (yet?), and i have little faith in their reliability going forward, based on the on again, off again, back on again history with existing 1p.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Are we doing an "all-in" season thread this year? The title seems to suggest this...

In previous seasons, we've had a network season thread to discuss only things that happened on CBS (free of any spoilers from live feeds or BBAD), and a separate thread for the more up-to-date happenings in the live feeds and BBAD...

Edit: Oops... See my next post below...


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Oops... My bad... I just did a search, and we were doing episode specific threads (not a season thread), and a live/BBAD thread... This must be the live/BBAD thread, and we'll create the episode threads on-demand...


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Yep, like I said in the OP this will be the full season thread that can have untagged spoilers from the live feeds and individual threads can still be created and should have tagged spoilers (in spoiler tags) for things that didn't air in the show. 

It will be interesting to see if any of the Big Brother Over the Top stuff comes through to season 19. Like the live competitions, nominations, and diary room sessions. I liked that stuff a lot. But I'm betting they'll be back to blocking those out due to the TV schedule. I'll likely just stick to the TV stuff instead of subscribing to the live feeds.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I cut the cord a few weeks ago... So I no longer get access to BBAD... 

I'll likely just stay with whatever the CBS editors feed us...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

MikeekiM said:


> I cut the cord a few weeks ago... So I no longer get access to BBAD...
> 
> I'll likely just stay with whatever the CBS editors feed us...


there are several good blogs to help fill in between eps.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> without the benefit of watching any feeds, game play, or house interactions, my initial thoughts of this house full of newbies is a little disappointment with the ladies - while christmas shows great signs of promise, that's just about it (so far). while i expect both dominique & raven to be fun on the feeds, i'm not convinced of their abilities to navigate the game...we'll see. i'll be keeping an eye on elena during any small group late-night conversations, she may end up being this season's arryn.
> 
> on the other hand, the pool of guys appear at first to be a bit deeper - matthew, cameron, cody, possibly kevin, all looking to play with their heads in the game. josh could be trouble, i'm thinking he may very well be the willie hantz of bb19. ramses is the token nerd, token racial minority guy, and token gay, all rolled into one, which could end up being lots of fun. jason the rodeo clown? no...just no. and mark? both conjure images of jessie.
> 
> ...


I agree about the women. With the exception of Christmas and maybe Jessica, they don't seem to be a strong group. The past few seasons, the women mostly mentioned wanting to form an all-girl alliance. Of course, it generally fails, but this year's women all seem to want to work with guys straight off the bat. Perhaps casting didn't put as much effort into finding competitive women after having 2 female winners in a row.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And now there are rumors about a 17th houseguest. Spoilers just this one time.



Spoiler



Paul from BB18 may be back.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I'd be ok with that.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Me too... ^^^


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I like the guy just fine, but since we're voting on who goes to the Den of Temptation each week, it doesn't seem fair to throw in one known entity with 16 new house guests. Of course, it's never particularly fair so it's not going to make me stop watching.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

speaking of the den of temptation, thr posted an interview with julie, and producers grodner & meehan, and they revealed a little more about the season and the twist:
_



...
*Meehan:* It's a summer of temptation! Not only does the house represent that, but the rooms carry through with some of those themes and we're bringing that all the way through with the twists of the game this summer as well. With temptation there are lots of different paths the season could go on depending on which temptations the houseguests take. We've never done anything quite like that throughout the course of the season. So we have plans and backup plans for all different things.

*Grodner:* Which door? Door number one or door number two? Because door number one will take you down a whole different path and we have to produce it that way too. We have to be prepared. On opening night we have two different scripts and two different possibilities depending on what's going to happen.
...
*Grodner: *It's actually possible that a competition could be in the backyard ready to go and our art department has worked really hard to put it out there and the houseguests don't play it because of a decision they made. 
...

Click to expand...

_​


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Sounds like this could be a lot of fun! I'm interested.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

realityboy said:


> And now there are rumors about a 17th houseguest. Spoilers just this one time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, not me



Spoiler



I'd rather keep it just newbies, but I am sure CBS does this so that there is the familiarity factor that will get people to watch.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Nope, not me
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


i agree, steve, it's years past time for another season of all newbies, without interference from returning players, unless it's part of hosting a challenge or a reward/punishment choice by a hg.

i really despised the "coaches" twist, even more when they entered the game themselves, so i'm glad it's gone this season, along with the "battle of the block" nonsense with two hoh.

one returning player, possibly one who was extremely popular last season? i'm withholding judgement until i see what influence, if any, they have on the game, or how much.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i agree, steve, it's years past time for another season of all newbies, without interference from returning players, unless it's part of hosting a challenge or a reward/punishment choice by a hg.
> 
> i really despised the "coaches" twist, even more when they entered the game themselves, so i'm glad it's gone this season, along with the "battle of the block" nonsense with two hoh.
> 
> one returning player, possibly one who was extremely popular last season? i'm withholding judgement until i see what influence, if any, they have on the game, or how much.


I wouldn't mind it if is was something like newbies vs. veterans or something like that, It's not even a new concept. We've seen on a few of these types of shows what can happen when a returnee comes back to the game and the advantages and disadvantages, so it's not even interesting in that respect. But yeah, like you, lets see how they handle it.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> I wouldn't mind it if is was something like newbies vs. veterans or something like that, It's not even a new concept. We've seen on a few of these types of shows what can happen when a returnee comes back to the game and the advantages and disadvantages, so it's not even interesting in that respect. But yeah, like you, lets see how they handle it.


8 vs. 8, returning vs. newbies, i'm also ok with, because it's a known factor up front - what i despise is the switch from mentor to player, mid-season.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> 8 vs. 8, returning vs. newbies, i'm also ok with, because it's a known factor up front - what i despise is the switch from mentor to player, mid-season.


Yeah, that was bad. The only saving grace is that some of my favorites were involved (and also some players i didn't like).


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Can't find Big Brother After Dark on the schedule anywhere. Showtime online is saying its moved back to SHO2 but Tivo guide is not showing it, nor is it showing up in Tivo search.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Showing up for me on Pop, starting Thursday night/Friday morning.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

It alternates for me everyday between BBAD and the current "Pop Programming". I recommend *everyone* set up manual recordings.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

This much be some very old video that showtime has yet to take down after many years: Big Brother After Dark: Big Brother After Dark Returns | SHOWTIME.

When doing a goggle search on "big brother after dark" it's on the first page.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

nrnoble said:


> This much be some very old video that showtime has yet to take down after many years: Big Brother After Dark: Big Brother After Dark Returns | SHOWTIME.
> 
> When doing a goggle search on "big brother after dark" it's on the first page.


Will definitely be on POP. My manual recording started this morning and there were several promos for BBAD to begin Thursday at 1am EST.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

ahead of tonight's premier, thr posted a behind the scenes interview with grodner and meehan, with a few tasty spoiler tidbits:



Spoiler: first week off-feeds



*...
What have the past few days looked like in the house?*

*Grodner:* Right now, we're in the only time of _Big Brother_ where we're not live. But already within the first 48 hours we have seen flirting, lines drawn, alliances and our first big fight!
*...
Meehan:* It was a man and a woman, and a temptation played into it.
*...
On premiere night, how are the first temptations presented to them?*

*Meehan:* They were tempted by money, safety and power. The first one was a large cash temptation.
*...*


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Bad thunderstorms here and there were weather alerts air the first 18 minutes of the show. So I didn't watch and will catch up online hopefully tomorrow because I don't want to miss the beginning.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

I like BB over other reality shows, with Survivor a close second. Because BB is semi-live, the producers have fewer options to create a start to end story. With Survivor, the producers know the winner when they start editing episode #1, thus can add\remove footage that will make for high drama\ratings, and portray the winner as being the most deserving\cunning\etc. With BB, that is not possible to do week to week.

After watching BB since season #3, it becomes more evident that the game is stacked with winners and losers, so to speak. My general perception is that when they cast the show, there are somewhere between 4-6 people who cast with the producers intent to win, and any twists\turns\competitions\etc stacked to their favor. The remainder of HGs is added to the cast as foils because they have personality flaws that the audience will typically dislike enough to want them evicted. Each season we typically see at least one emotionally unstable person who has impulse control problems, and given the chance, will nearly always make a very bad choice that ruins his\her game, as well as anyone who teamed up to that individual.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

So


Spoiler



Megan


 quit already. There were allegations of a racial slur, but it seems that it was made up by the quitter and lead to the quitting. This was before the feeds started so hopefully we get some clarification on the show. I miss BBOTT showing the feeds from day 1.

Also, the slur was "panda". I've never heard of that as a slur.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Josh is a whackadoo. Guy seriously needs some medication or something.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> So
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


yeah, any self-eviction is a downer, with so many others who want an opportunity to be on the show. sounds as if the fallout from the hg own actions had blown up their game, and they thought their eventual eviction was certain, which we all know is never necessarily true on bb - can't wait for the sunday night diary room outtakes.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

realityboy said:


> So
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I don't know what happened in this particular case, but the show has a hidden "black book" of rules that TV audience does not know about. One thing HGs are not allowed to do is create certain types of lies about other HGs. Such as a lie of: "HG X told me that he is a convicted sex offender". BS like that is off limits, along with much longer lists of rules.


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## forecheck (Aug 5, 2000)

I know Cameron has done a couple of interviews, but has he been seen in public? Hoping they could come up with a way to get him back in if he is still sequestered.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

forecheck said:


> I know Cameron has done a couple of interviews, but has he been seen in public? Hoping they could come up with a way to get him back in if he is still sequestered.


I do believe he is in sequester. Pretty easy to bring him back via a temptation if they want. Also, btw, they just continued with this week as is by letting Cody pick a replacement nominee, Alex.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> I don't know what happened in this particular case, but the show has a hidden "black book" of rules that TV audience does not know about. One thing HGs are not allowed to do is create certain types of lies about other HGs. Such as a lie of: "HG X told me that he is a convicted sex offender". BS like that is off limits, along with much longer lists of rules.


Obviously production is sensitive to racial issues after S15, but I don't think accusing someone of calling someone a panda is an evictable offense. They'd likely just make her come clean and admit that she made it up if it was against the rules.

There was a similar incident at the beginning of BB17 that never made the show, and we never really got the truth as it was only spoken about secretively on the feeds.

In this case, per Alex, production did confirm to her that it was not said, but would not let her "watch the tapes".


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

realityboy said:


> So
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


The allegation was that the quitter used a racial slur, or that the quitter wanted to quit because a racial slur was used against the quiter?

LOL - Isn't this a thread where spoilers are okay?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the quitter attempted to blame the slur on another hg, by telling the supposed target of the slur, never expecting the other two would compare notes. once her lie was discovered, she quit rather than face the consequences.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it looks like paul won the temptation online vote, took it, and is safe for (an additional?) 3 weeks. he's being laid back, playing mentor, and absorbing all the info being spilled to him by the newbies in awe of his greatness - they appear to have no clue how dangerous he can be in this game.

feeds are down for the pov comp: cody, raven, matthew, jillian, jason, and alex are playing, kevin is hosting.

eta: josh, jillian, and ramses are have-nots


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

She is now saying on social media that she didn't self-evict. I'm not sure if she's to be believed or just trying to save face.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> The allegation was that the quitter used a racial slur, or that the quitter wanted to quit because a racial slur was used against the quiter?
> 
> LOL - Isn't this a thread where spoilers are okay?


Sorry. Just did that for a few posts in case someone wandered into the wrong thread. If they've made it this far, they've been warned.

Megan accused Jessica of calling Alex a panda. Jessica denied, and Megan quit.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> it looks like paul won the temptation online vote, took it, and is safe for (an additional?) 3 weeks. he's being laid back, playing mentor, and absorbing all the info being spilled to him by the newbies in awe of his greatness - they appear to have no clue how dangerous he can be in this game.
> 
> feeds are down for the pov comp: cody, raven, matthew, jillian, jason, and alex are playing, kevin is hosting.
> 
> eta: josh, jillian, and ramses are have-nots


And Paul can keep his safety a secret.

Also when feeds are down, there's a feed of cats that are up for adoption.


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## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

A little biased but I was rooting for Megan. Maybe one day we'll have a navy contender. lol


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I liked Megan from the first 2 episodes. This is really pretty shocking news. I wonder how it will all turn out on TV.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> She is now saying on social media that she didn't self-evict. I'm not sure if she's to be believed or just trying to save face.


interesting, can't wait to watch sunday night! either way, things are looking up for cameron...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

alex won pov (megan's replacement on the block).


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Good. I like her. Too bad sounds like they can't backdoor Paul.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

http://www.desertsun.com/story/life...n-she-left-big-brother-house-early/444830001/


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> http://www.desertsun.com/story/life...n-she-left-big-brother-house-early/444830001/


i'm not trying to be deliberately nasty, but wouldn't that still be considered a self-eviction, even when due to medical issues?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i'm not trying to be deliberately nasty, but wouldn't that still be considered a self-eviction, even when due to medical issues?


I would think so. Dick's S13 exit was a self-eviction, and he had just found out that he was HIV+.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

a couple of quick updates from overnight:

it appears that jason is cody's choice for replacement nom, xmas and raven have also tossed out ramses name (he's perceived as purposefully dropping in on conversations and is losing trust among some hg)

kevin told paul he took the $25k temptation (ruh roh!), paul tells kevin most hg think ramses took the money

paul told the feeds he is responsible for planting the racial slur rumor that caused megan to self-evict, part of his plot to spread rumors to destabilize the ladies (he thinks the ladies are stronger than the group of guys in the house) - he also thinks he can stay off the block in order to keep his temptation power secret

jessica and cody have been cuddling in the hoh bed, jessica thinks cody threw the pov comp to let alex win, he denies it - several are concerned with cody's directness, cody has promised to protect the alliance (cody says he flew into ferguson for the riots "just to see if he could survive...dressed like a bum...was interviewed by bbc")

mark and elena have cuddled in the living room

alex is pumped after winning the veto, announced she wants to target showmances

here's how the house is dividing up:


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I watched way too long yesterday. There is definite tension between Cody and a good portion of his alliance. Assuming the 9 that are together plus Kevin all make jury, Cody wants to bring Alex to jury also essentially making her the 11th person in their group. Jessica, Matt, Raven, and Dominique do not approve of this. I'm not quite sure that anyone does other than Mark. Mark reaffirmed that he wanted final 2 with Cody and that he trusts him 100%. Their final 3 includes Dominique.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

cody is making way too many rookie mistakes so early in the game - first hoh, big alliance, overbearing personality, showmance - you can tell he's not familiar with the show, and if it weren't for all the drama from megan and josh, he'd be in a lot more trouble with a renom and 5 days before the next hoh comp. we know historically how big alliances tend to fall apart badly this early in the summer.

up until kevin confided his taking the $25k to paul, i'd been impressed with kevin's "lay-low, make friends, don't become another target" game. it's not a bad early strategy for him, having never watched bb, and considering how the house is divided. we'll wait to see when paul blows up his game, it's simply a matter of when, not if.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And Cody seems to be planning on surprising his alliance with his replacement nominee. He won't confirm that it's Jason. There's a possibility that he tries to nominate Paul.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, last night while cody and jess were in the hoh bed, and before moving on to kissing (and beyond!), he remarked both paul and xmas were expendable, he's only concerned with protecting the showmances+dom in their alliance.

paul better hook up, and fast! (of course, we know he's safe for 3 weeks...)


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Do we know how the safety works? Like if he gets nominated then everybody is told about his power? Hopefully we'll find out more on tonight's show.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

DancnDude said:


> Do we know how the safety works? Like if he gets nominated then everybody is told about his power? Hopefully we'll find out more on tonight's show.


good question, not that i've seen or heard, though i've read online that ramses was on the receiving end of the consequences of paul's pop (pendant of protection).

if paul is on the block, and the pop remains a secret, whoever is sitting next to him is a goner - i can't see bb letting that happen, unless they justify it somehow by the early evictions returning, but who knows?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Veto ceremony-They know about Paul's safety now. Cody nominated Christmas blindsiding his entire alliance.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

woah, surprising! He's certainly putting a target on his back right from the start!


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Boo on the blindside twist. I like Paul, and would like to see him have honest\fair chance to win, but I felt the blindside with 3 weeks of immunity was a total ratings setup because Paul is a fan favorite. If the blindsides are to be fair, it needs to be designed in such a way that the producers can't switch things behind the scenes to favor any player over another.

In general I don't like the audience being involved because it becomes a popularity contest with millions of people who have nothing to risk. It would be like letting the TV audience make decisions on what plays are called during the Superbowl.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> good question, not that i've seen or heard, though i've read online that ramses was on the receiving end of the consequences of paul's pop (pendant of protection).
> 
> if paul is on the block, and the pop remains a secret, whoever is sitting next to him is a goner - i can't see bb letting that happen, unless they justify it somehow by the early evictions returning, but who knows?


It is my understanding if Paul is nominated, he has to reveal the secret and force the HOH to nominate someone else immediately. If Paul is never nominated, his identity remains a secret. Overall, its a good game changer except for that totally puts at risk a single player's game, not the entire house. 3 weeks on the block is an extreme high risk, but that person could be a pawn each week if he\she has a strong alliance.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> a couple of quick updates from overnight:
> 
> it appears that jason is cody's choice for replacement nom, xmas and raven have also tossed out ramses name (he's perceived as purposefully dropping in on conversations and is losing trust among some hg)
> 
> jessica and cody have been cuddling in the hoh bed, jessica thinks cody threw the pov comp to let alex win, he denies it - several are concerned with cody's directness, cody has promised to protect the alliance (cody says he flew into ferguson for the riots "just to see if he could survive...dressed like a bum...was interviewed by bbc")


Cody is a type that the producers look for. Someone who rarely watch the show (if ever), tends to be a leader and popular in his life, but lacks certain traits that are critical to win BB. BB is a social game, and HGs like Paul understand that, and Paul plays to the audience (good for ratings = producers slant game to such HGs). ATM, Cody appears to think that his leadership and athletic skills will take him to the end. It will be interesting to see how behaves when he is no longer HOH, and\or put on the block.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul has also been discussing the consequences to his taking the power as being a random draw, and that ramses lost.

cody finally admitted to jess, that once he saw alex was going to win the pov, he let her win at the end (after lying about throwing the comp? what is this guy thinking???)

as far as paul's power revelation, there doesn't appear to be much, if any, fallout.

xmas may be the smartest move cody has made, even with the fallout within the alliance. both sides are scrambling for votes, and the two strongest ladies are on the block - eviction night will be interesting, can't wait to see who's the next hoh.

cody has definitely placed a huge target on his back, i can't see him throwing any more comps soon...


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## forecheck (Aug 5, 2000)

Only the aftermath was shown on the feeds, but this morning Christmas was riding piggyback on Jason while he was walking around the backyard and he slipped and fell, either spraining or breaking her foot. She left with medical and hasn't returned yet. The houseguests are speculating that if she doesn't, will Cody have to nominate a 6th person.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Make Cody go all-in burning bridges and then bring them ALL back.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Christmas is back and on crutches. It's not broken, but she has to go get an MRI on Wednesday.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

In a previous season (can't recall which), an injured HG was medically prevented from participating in competitions, thus had to sit on the sidelines.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I know Raven has her health condition and pacemaker in her stomach which can garner sympathy, but I've still been a little suspicious of her background. I saw a Little Rock local news report about her on the internet where she said she was just fortunate to be able to afford her (very expensive) pacemaker and she wants to raise awareness for others with the same condition who can't. Her last name is Walton. She's from Arkansas. Is she related to Wal-Mart money?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> Christmas is back and on crutches. It's not broken, but she has to go get an MRI on Wednesday.


i've heard rumors of torn ligaments, stupid, stupid, stupid mistake! if xmas is able to remain a player, then survives the live eviction this thursday night (it appears she currently has the votes, and cody is clueless), we'll get to watch and see if her social game can take her to the end.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

She's back from the MRI. It's broken, but she's sticking around.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Anyone got the HOH results? Also, it looks like the house was ready to explode right after the vote? Jessica and Christmas looked like they were ready to go at it. Any fallout from that?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Paul won the HOH. Jess/Cody are still isolating themselves. Their side blamed Ramses for the vote for Jillian to go because they can't believe that Kevin would lie.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Also, Paul revealed his master plan that he had been hyping for the past few days. He wanted to nominate Matt & Raven as pawns to backdoor Cody. He has since realized that was a bad plan and currently seems to be leaning toward Josh & Alex as the pawns. Cody is still the target.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, paul nominating 2 of his potential votes (matt/raven) for a shot to backdoor cody wasn't the brightest of ideas. if cody ends up on the block next to josh after the pov, it will be a tough vote!


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I'm surprised Paul won. He's safe this week anyways and probably would have been better to continue building relationships instead of having to target and piss off more people. He would have been better off throwing this week and next.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

wouldn't it be smart for paul to use an hoh or two to manipulate the numbers to his advantage over the next 3 weeks, while he has protection? the lines appear to be mostly drawn for now, and i suspect he can still build relationships, help form the jury pool, and keep the target on his back the same size, even as hoh...we'll see how it works out.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

If I were Paul I'd do whatever I could to get Cody out. I don't think those fences can be mended. Cody has spent his trust with the house anyway. The cold irony would be everything going Paul's way except Cody gets spared by a temptation.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> I'm surprised Paul won. He's safe this week anyways and probably would have been better to continue building relationships instead of having to target and piss off more people. He would have been better off throwing this week and next.


He had been telling his side to throw it to him all week because he had a plan.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

xmas, raven, maybe others were all feeding paul tickets to help him win hoh, cody and jess weren't pleased

xmas (jing! jing! jing!) wins the den of temptation vote, gets to curse 3 hg - cody, jess, & jason are vetoads, dressed as frogs, have to hop from lily pad to lily pad all week.

paul noms alex & josh, plan is to backdoor cody

ramses puts himself on the block using his curse, paul has assured him he's safe and it's the best week to use it (famous last words)


----------



## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

If Ramses wins the veto and take himself off the block, does Paul get to put up a replacement?


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

EscapeGoat said:


> If Ramses wins the veto and take himself off the block, does Paul get to put up a replacement?


I doubt it. It probably works more like a penalty nomination.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

have nots - vetoads + matt (xmas originally picked jody + ramses, but hg can only be cursed once)

more details on xmas' ring of replacement temptation: she gets to replace 1 veto player chosen by random draw with herself, any pov comp this season.

kevin talks jason into going for the have not key before matt does, the dr says jason is first to ask.

pov comp: paul, alex, josh, ramses, elena, matt - jason hosting

updated alliance chart from @89razorskate20:


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul won pov - not a lot of details on the comp, but part of it involved eating nasty foods.

he'd originally planned to use the veto on alex (cody as replacement), then changed his mind and decided to pull josh off, because cody next to alex was best - i guess we'll find out soon enough!


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> paul won pov - not a lot of details on the comp, but part of it involved eating nasty foods.


From what I could tell it was a timed event going through an "airport" and if you passed certain tests like adding multiple number to equal exactly 19 (as we've seen previous seasons) then you get to pass and if you fail there was some kind of time consuming thing you had to do like eat nasty food or some large sweaty guy would pin you down. Ramses had promised to max out his time to throw the POV but apparently nearly beat Paul's time.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jason attempted the "have not pass" temptation, lost, is now a have not for 2 weeks, and isn't pleased

xmas is scheduled to have surgery on her foot this week (wednesday?), her ability to remain is the house is still up in the air


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov ceremony went as planned, josh down, cody up, alex, cody, ramses on the block

jess and jason exchanged words during the ceremony (do jess & cody get along with anyone?)

paul now talking to kevin, throwing ramses under the bus, and attempting to manipulate the 3-way vote by having kevin vote to evict ramses, making the vote 8-1-1...this is a dangerous game paul is playing with over 3 days until the live eviction


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Paul is an a-hole.
Once Cody (a bigger a-hole) is gone, Paul needs to go as soon as his immunity expires.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> paul now talking to kevin, throwing ramses under the bus, and attempting to manipulate the 3-way vote by having kevin vote to evict ramses, making the vote 8-1-1...this is a dangerous game paul is playing with over 3 days until the live eviction


What's the point of this? I know Paul is pissed at Ramses because Paul thinks Ramses tried to win the POV and didn't really throw it like he could have. I think Ramses came in 2nd? Paul was ranting to Xmas and somebody else about this, but then Ramses entered the room and said he wasn't trying to win, yadda yadda yadda, and seemed to settle things down. It Paul still gunning for him? (I just occasionally watch BBAD)

Jess seems to be trying to reintegrate with the group, after she and Cody spent two(?) days in self-imposed exile pouting in their frog suits. Cody is still nowhere to be seen. I think she realizes Cody is leaving and she needs to make nice. For example, she was in the audience when Dom interviewed Raven and Jason, even though Cody wasn't. She also had some funny conversations with Ramses, Kevin and Jason.

Curious if any of Dom's interview of Raven, specifically all the info about her gastroparesis and health issues, makes the network.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

justen_m said:


> What's the point of this? I know Paul is pissed at Ramses because Paul thinks Ramses tried to win the POV and didn't really throw it like he could have. I think Ramses came in 2nd? Paul was ranting to Xmas and somebody else about this, but then Ramses entered the room and said he wasn't trying to win, yadda yadda yadda, and seemed to settle things down. It Paul still gunning for him? (I just occasionally watch BBAD)


you summed it all up perfectly, ramses is now on paul's sh*t list, so paul's using kevin to throw him off balance.



justen_m said:


> Jess seems to be trying to reintegrate with the group, after she and Cody spent two(?) days in self-imposed exile pouting in their frog suits. Cody is still nowhere to be seen. I think she realizes Cody is leaving and she needs to make nice. For example, she was in the audience when Dom interviewed Raven and Jason, even though Cody wasn't. She also had some funny conversations with Ramses, Kevin and Jason.


jess was moving in that direction, then today's pov meeting happened, and she had it out with jason (who _has_ friends).

_(my pov post earlier incorrectly stated jess had words with josh, not jason, so i edited to correct...too many freakin' j's this season!)_


----------



## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

justen_m said:


> Curious if any of Dom's interview of Raven, specifically all the info about her gastroparesis and health issues, makes the network.


I caught part of that on BBAD. It was very compelling. It seemed like exactly the kind of story CBS loves, so I expect it to be included in the show, maybe even with an informational blurb at the end for a support group or fundraising effort.

During that part of BBAD there was one male player (I forget which) that had a look on his face that made me think he was realizing that a player with a terminal illness is a huge threat. If she gets to the final two, she's going to be nearly impossible to beat.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

EscapeGoat said:


> I caught part of that on BBAD. It was very compelling. It seemed like exactly the kind of story CBS loves, so I expect it to be included in the show, maybe even with an informational blurb at the end for a support group or fundraising effort.
> 
> During that part of BBAD there was one male player (I forget which) that had a look on his face that made me think he was realizing that a player with a terminal illness is a huge threat. If she gets to the final two, she's going to be nearly impossible to beat.


Yeah they showed pretty much a full interview last night except for the commercials. I wish BBAD were back on SHO. If everything Raven said is true it is an extremely compelling story. I have no reason to doubt the story though you can practically see the pacemaker through her skin and she doesn't eat when everyone else is pigging out. Jason's "interview" about his head injury was practically hilarious in contrast. Something else I realized is that Dominique really seems to be a sleeper threat in this show. She's not on anyone's radar that I can tell and gets along with everyone.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

xmas & jess attempt to talk it out, and hug, but when xmas relays the details to paul & alex in the hoh, it appears it didn't take - paul continues to blame ramses for taking the $25k, even though he now knows it was kevin

xmas goes in for surgery on wednesday, will stay the night at the hospital, then return to the house thursday - there are a couple of broken bones and a "popped" ligament that needs to be reconstructed - they will use screws and springs, and the surgery is expected to last about 6 hours

ramses came up with a new chicken parmaslop recipe, jason approves


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> xmas & jess attempt to talk it out, and hug, but when xmas relays the details to paul & alex in the hoh, it appears it didn't take - paul continues to blame ramses for taking the $25k, even though he now knows it was kevin


Why the hell is Paul complaining? If someone didn't take the $25,000 CBS would have had to think of another way to get Paul into the game.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

brianric said:


> Why the hell is Paul complaining? If someone didn't take the $25,000 CBS would have had to think of another way to get Paul into the game.


He isn't "complaining". He knows Kevin got that reward, not Ramses. He is trying to get rid of Ramses by throwing him under the bus at every opportunity. Which is stupid bad timing, IMHO. Get rid of Cody first, then focus on your next target. Both guys are still on the block!


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> xmas & jess attempt to talk it out, and hug, but when xmas relays the details to paul & alex in the hoh, it appears it didn't take - paul continues to blame ramses for taking the $25k, even though he now knows it was kevin
> 
> xmas goes in for surgery on wednesday, will stay the night at the hospital, then return to the house thursday - there are a couple of broken bones and a "popped" ligament that needs to be reconstructed - they will use screws and springs, and the surgery is expected to last about 6 hours
> 
> ramses came up with a new chicken parmaslop recipe, jason approves


Thanks for the updates.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

we have another injury - this time it's raven. she missed a step, slipped while walking down the spiral staircase when leaving the hoh room, and bumped her head, elbow, and split between her toes on the railing. there was blood, but when she returned from the dr, she said bb administered the stitches on site, but couldn't numb beforehand due to the location of the injury, so she was screaming. otherwise, she appears to be ok (ice pack on her bruised head, bandaged toes).

xmas should be back from surgery tonight, and her bags have finally disappeared from the storage room (they've been there since she was on the block and injured her foot).

looks as if we're still on track for a 1-1-8 vote (ramses, alex, cody) at tonight's eviction, but, of course, you never really know until the votes are cast.

due to the length of time the hg's have been on indoor lockdown, everyone's expecting the next hoh to be endurance, but i'm not completely convinced. these predictions pop up every year, and have been wrong before (we love 'em on the feeds!). while it may be a physical comp, i believe it's still a little early in the season for a true, bb-style endurance comp, especially before jury - we'll see later tonight!

eta: voting is still open for the dot, i noticed in the fine print it was scheduled to be open until (i believe) 7/19. i suspect bb is up to something over the next week with this season's twists.


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

*1:56PM BBT:* Paul asks Josh if he is crapping better now and Josh tells him, "No, I'm constipated from damn pickle juice." Paul is laughing hysterically.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

At this rate with injuries it might just become a game of who can stay healthy. This is the 3rd one right? Mark/finger, Christmas/Foot, and Raven/Toes with special mention of Megan just being Megan. Cody got a chance to drop some bombs last night and Dominique gave him the platform to do so with her interview show. It actually started off somewhat funny even with Cody's murder gaze. It quickly became apparent he was trying to set Jessica up for a better position in the house and chip away from Paul's alliance. Paul, Matt, and Mark lectured her about why that was a horrible idea and she seemed to accept it with a bright cheery smile like she does everything. I'm starting to wonder if Dominique will be able to keep her chipper attitude much longer. She's certainly showing up on peoples radar now.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> ...
> 
> eta: voting is still open for the dot, i noticed in the fine print it was scheduled to be open until (i believe) 7/19. i suspect bb is up to something over the next week with this season's twists.


I told my friends that - and meant to post here inquiring...

The voting for the other temptations was 3-4 days, and this one is 10! I wondered if they're pulling some trick to keep Cody tonight?!?


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I bet they will have a contest for one of the ousted guests to have a chance to come back - they do that every season. Maybe they are waiting to see who comes back?


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

raven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Well, I was wrong. Ninny was right. Now we're sure to get Cody back. Although, who *was* that guy that chatted with Julie? If he'd play I wouldn't love-to-hate-him so much. 

I'd forgotten about Cameron.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Alex is new HOH.


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

Squeak said:


> Alex is new HOH.


That is who I thought would win that competition though I would have bet on Christmas if she was healthy.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> Well, I was wrong. Ninny was right.


What else is new???


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Looks like Paul was caught making plans to mock Dominique by wearing black leggings and blackface.

'Big Brother' Houseguest Paul Plans 'Blackface' Stunt, Fans Pissed


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I noticed through the week that Paul was wearing a black beauty mask. Some of the girls were wearing them too. Hope it doesn't go too far.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Back from vacation. Looks like I didn't miss too much during Paul's reign. 

Paul used the face mask as part of his costume. He did not cover his full face. It was just a design. Jason didn't use the veto. 

Josh/Mark's "playful" banter finally boiled over after a dispute over a pool game. (Josh double touched on his last shot). The loser was to drink a mixture of pickle juice/hot sauce. Mark through the drink in Josh's face. They argued. Then Jess/Josh argued. Then Xmas/Dominique.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

food fight! arguments continue, josh won't let it (or anything) go, even as mark tries to apologize, so josh's meltdowns continue to make himself an even bigger target (depending on who's in his path) - his victim stance is getting really old, really fast (good news for everyone else)

dom & paul still at odds, rehashing the same argument endlessly (dom called paul a snake, no dom didn't, she inferred it, no she didn't), paul is stupid to keep this up, as dom is most likely a goner thursday

paul came up with a plan to dress as dom, in a black outfit and mask, so, of course, social media exploded with comments of "black face" and racism - paul's reasons for wanting dom gone are mostly legit (her talk show questions and comments), so this was a really another stupid and insensitive move on his part, he's overplaying his hand

dom claims jealousy made her a target, and that black players have been early targets in recent years (true), but fails to recognize her own role that made her a target

josh tried the have not temptation, lost, so he has an extra week as a have not (i hope he makes it, not a smart move for him considering his fragile emotional state)

alex & paul talk of targeting ramses & jess next, the general idea is to leave xmas alone (as of this moment)

latest alliance chart from @89razorskate20


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

ready for three consecutive nights of bb! the live feeds will go down at some point before thursday's live eviction, and will likely remain down until after friday's battle back comp.

online voting has closed, and both the temptation and curse have been released into the house, bb says there were a lot of votes cast, everyone scrambling to identify the winner, talk (raven) is the curse effects the house, not individual(s)

xmas slipped and fell in the kitchen (floor grease from paul's cooking, she braced her fall and is ok), ramses left grease on the stove, went to storage, forgot about it, and almost started a fire - he smoked up the house

mark & josh *finally* finish hashing out the food fight! argument (mark points out this is the second bet on which josh reneged, the other was with paul)

jason ate a chip as a have not, of course bb caught him, no word on any punishment (a first offense this small is generally a warning from bb, even if on purpose)

raven's stitches were removed

ramses made emergen-c popsicles for the have nots (josh, mark, ramses, jason), jason approves, calls ramses the slop god

bb gave the hg's personalized coffee mugs


----------



## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

realityboy said:


> Paul used the face mask as part of his costume. He did not cover his full face. It was just a design.


 Are you referring to his snake outfit or Dom dressup? In the news clip I saw it looked like he was saying he was using the mask to symbolize Dom - if so, that's pretty offensive.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Stylin said:


> Are you referring to his snake outfit or Dom dressup? In the news clip I saw it looked like he was saying he was using the mask to symbolize Dom - if so, that's pretty offensive.


There was only ever the snake outfit. He was always dressing up as a snake never as Dominique.


----------



## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

Ahhhhhh, ok... 
After your reply things make much more sense. I just went to utube and watched the clip, and at no time do I hear him say dressing up as "Dom/her etc". He clearly says snake. I can't stand Paul, but that is a nasty assault (accusing him of blackface) on his character!


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Stylin said:


> Ahhhhhh, ok...
> After your reply things make much more sense. I just went to utube and watched the clip, and at no time do I hear him say dressing up as "Dom/her etc". He clearly says snake. I can't stand Paul, but that is a nasty assault (accusing him of blackface) on his character!


It really got out of hand. I think it was assumed that he'd cover his entire face as part of his snake costume which would've been ill-advised. The accusations were out before we saw his outfit. I don't like him, and it was a stupid outfit, but it wasn't really blackface at all.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

raven & matt have been talking about throwing tonight's hoh to paul (again?!), josh asked jason to throw the hoh to him, jason agreed, they were talking of potential noms mark & matt next, josh wants to split them up before jury

paul is paranoid jess won the dot vote, other hg's agree (she's appeared happy since it was released even though she's on the block, and jess asked questions about double evictions), so paul has been working to make her paranoid so she'll use tonight before he loses his safety (even though he knows she's likely safe) - he even talked xmas into helping, but jess held strong and never admitted to winning the dot

paul also tried to smooth out tensions with dom, and while she was nice enough, she wasn't having it (good for her), paul then went to alex, Jason, kevin, and later mark & elena to relay his version of his talk to dom (man, let it go already), and he plans to dress as a snake (again?!) tonight

dom & jess discussed paul running the house, jess agreed she'd seen signs herself (finally!)


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Cody won Battleback, then Jess won HOH (and is keeping her room locked, like Cody). 

Josh and Ramses are on the block.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

It looks like Jess & Cody think the house is voting out Josh, but the house plans to blindside them again by voting out Ramses. Mark & Elena are also out of the loop.


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Squeak said:


> Cody won Battleback, then Jess won HOH (and is keeping her room locked, like Cody)


Once we see the battle back on TV, there is little doubt that it was highly taylored to Cody's skills.

I am not complaining because I understand the producers need to ensure each season is entertaining from start to finish, and that means keeping the best players in the game without rigging it.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> Once we see the battle back on TV, there is little doubt that it was highly taylored to Cody's skills.
> 
> I am not complaining because I understand the producers need to ensure each season is entertaining from start to finish, and that means keeping the best players in the game without rigging it.


I disagree. I don't think either challenges particularly favored Cody. He is just a strong campetitor. He earned his way back.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Jessica won veto. Likely no change to nominations unless Cody & Jessica get wind of the plan to keep Josh.


----------



## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

realityboy said:


> Jessica won veto. Likely no change to nominations unless Cody & Jessica get wind of the plan to keep Josh.


Time to wake up the puppets and backdoor the puppet-master (Paul).


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

DVR_Dave said:


> Time to wake up the puppets and backdoor the puppet-master (Paul).


I don't think they have the votes to do this right now.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> I don't think they have the votes to do this right now.


They definitely do not. They don't even have the votes to get out Josh. The best option would be to save Ramses and put up a better pawn like Raven.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

realityboy said:


> They definitely do not. They don't even have the votes to get out Josh. The best option would be to save Ramses and put up a better pawn like Raven.


I agree. If they really want Josh out, they need to put someone next to him that won't get votes. Raven would be a good choice!


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> I agree. If they really want Josh out, they need to put someone next to him that won't get votes. Raven would be a good choice!


Jessica, in particular, really wants Josh gone. She told Alex that he gets under her skin so bad that it's hard to concentrate on the game with him there. Alex shared this with Paul, and it just gives them more incentive to keep Josh.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

havenots are the first three out of the hoh comp - keven, mark, paul (plus josh on week 2 after losing the havenot temptation)

mark lost the havenot temptation, and is not looking forward to his own extended week 

jess is suspicious the house is lying to her (they are) and ramses will be evicted, meaning cody and jess the targets next week (duh!), cody calls her paranoid, and tells her he will put the fear of god in them if josh stays and ramses is evicted 

paul was talking to jason about how dumb jess and cody are if jess doesn’t use the veto 

for some odd reason xmas went off on ramses for jumping the laundry line while she was asleep. she’s says she was teasing him, but she wasn’t – she was really steaming mad. ramses brushes it off, jokes xmas hit him with a crutch.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

oops! forgot to post the latest alliance chart from @89razorskate20:


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov ceremony is over, veto not used, josh (prematurely, recklessly) is celebrating his victory in "private" - if he keeps this up, jess & cody will figure out what's up, if they ever leave the hoh bed, that is...


----------



## 10_pearljam (Dec 28, 2005)

A blindside of this magnitude, if Josh stays, will be epic!! Jess wanted to use the POV on Ramses and put Alex up but Cody said not to...lol. 

Not sure why America threw Jess the Den of Temptation. Do people really like her and Cody that much?


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

10_pearljam said:


> A blindside of this magnitude, if Josh stays, will be epic!! Jess wanted to use the POV on Ramses and put Alex up but Cody said not to...lol.
> 
> Not sure why America threw Jess the Den of Temptation. Do people really like her and Cody that much?


Peronally, I think the vote was rigged. Production wanted the drama. Just like Paul getting 3 weeks of safety.


----------



## 10_pearljam (Dec 28, 2005)

nyny523 said:


> Peronally, I think the vote was rigged. Production wanted the drama. Just like Paul getting 3 weeks of safety.


Can't argue that...there have been many rumors that they try to steer the house guests certain ways. If they eliminate Jess, Cody and Paul in the next month, it would be great imo...lol


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

They're doing their best to keep Cody and Jess alive but that couple just doesn't know how to play the game.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nyny523 said:


> Peronally, I think the vote was rigged. Production wanted the drama. Just like Paul getting 3 weeks of safety.


how could they rig each individual vote? i can see the potential for moving comps around, the release of convenient temptations or other "twists" (pandora's box), and even asking leading questions in the dr sessions, but rigging a live vote? no way.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> how could they rig each individual vote? i can see the potential for moving comps around, and even asking leading questions in the dr sessions, but rigging a live vote? no way.


Not the live vote - the Den of Temptation votes.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the live vote has always been questionable, 10 votes per ip address (not per login), with social media rallies asking friends of friends to vote, but rigged by production? i still don't think so.

(p.s. i added a little to the post, thought of something else)


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

nyny523 said:


> Peronally, I think the vote was rigged. Production wanted the drama. Just like Paul getting 3 weeks of safety.


I think the general viewing audience just likes to upset the status quo and usually votes for the underdog. I strongly disliked Jess and Cody in the early stages, but once everyone else in the house seemed to be ganging up on them I was rooting for them to pull it out.

tta


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

tivotvaddict said:


> I think the general viewing audience just likes to upset the status quo and usually votes for the underdog. I strongly disliked Jess and Cody in the early stages, but once everyone else in the house seemed to be ganging up on them I was rooting for them to pull it out.
> 
> tta


That is how I like it. Always rooting for chaos because that is more entertaining. If the production messes with the show a bit; it doesn't bother me.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> pov ceremony is over, veto not used, josh (prematurely, recklessly) is celebrating his victory in "private" - if he keeps this up, jess & cody will figure out what's up, if they ever leave the hoh bed, that is...


But at this point, it doesn't matter if they figure out what's up. They can't really do anything to stop it.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

10_pearljam said:


> A blindside of this magnitude, if Josh stays, will be epic!! Jess wanted to use the POV on Ramses and put Alex up but Cody said not to...lol.
> 
> Not sure why America threw Jess the Den of Temptation. Do people really like her and Cody that much?


lol, and once again Cody screws her game up.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

bryhamm said:


> But at this point, it doesn't matter if they figure out what's up. They can't really do anything to stop it.


Sure they can. They can use the halting hex so Ramses doesn't get voted out. Short sited but they would pull one over on the house.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> lol, and once again Cody screws her game up.


while her decision not to use the veto was influence by cody, now she may have screwed up her own game by admitting to kevin she won the temptation vote. she decided to lie about the temptation and the consequences, though, by vaguely hinting she has safety, it's about who she wants on the block, and consequences for nominating her.

her confession might come back to haunt her, but, who knows, it might turn out to be good strategy, in light of the proposed blindside sending ramses home. most hg's already have her pegged as winning the dot, anyway, but this is her first verification (besides cody).


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

tigercat74 said:


> Sure they can. They can use the halting hex so Ramses doesn't get voted out. Short sited but they would pull one over on the house.


Knowing that it is them against the house, I seriously doubt they would use the hex now. One of them will inevitably end up on the block and they will need to save it for then. It's not like Ramses is an ally.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nyny523 said:


> Knowing that it is them against the house, I seriously doubt they would use the hex now. One of them will inevitably end up on the block and they will need to save it for then. It's not like Ramses is an ally.


while i agree, neither jess or cody would be willing to blow the temptation over a josh vs ramses eviction, and it's smarter to save until the last minute in case they end up on the block, knowing what was planned would allow them to plot in the background, or even spread false rumors in hopes of swaying the vote.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> Knowing that it is them against the house, I seriously doubt they would use the hex now. One of them will inevitably end up on the block and they will need to save it for then. It's not like Ramses is an ally.


I agree it wouldn't be smart but it would be entertaining.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

tigercat74 said:


> I agree it wouldn't be smart but it would be entertaining.


This is true! Too bad they almost never do what we really want to see...


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Using it also unleashes a consequence upon the house. Let me guess.... double or triple eviction.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Using it also unleashes a consequence upon the house. Let me guess.... double or triple eviction.


Ooh - fun!


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I thought just accepting it unleashes a consequence on the house. So the consequence is happening, even if it doesn't get used. Just like how Christmas got the ring and the consequence was the Vetoads, even though she has not used it yet.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> I thought just accepting it unleashes a consequence on the house. So the consequence is happening, even if it doesn't get used. Just like how Christmas got the ring and the consequence was the Vetoads, even though she has not used it yet.


I forgot about Christmas power. Can't she remove someone from block and replace them. I want her to put Cody on the block and then Jessica use the hex. It would be outstanding.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

tigercat74 said:


> I forgot about Christmas power. Can't she remove someone from block and replace them. I want her to put Cody on the block and then Jessica use the hex. It would be outstanding.


no doubt chaos would ensue. and if both were used during a double eviction night?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

tigercat74 said:


> I forgot about Christmas power. Can't she remove someone from block and replace them.


Not that powerful. She can replace someone in the POV competition.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> no doubt chaos would ensue. and if both were used during a double eviction night?


That's me. Agent of chaos.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

justen_m said:


> Not that powerful. She can replace someone in the POV competition.


that's right, it was a better consequence than it was a temptation. but, still, on a de night, it could be fun!


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

justen_m said:


> Not that powerful. She can replace someone in the POV competition.


That is why I forgot about it. Pretty weak compared to the other two.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

tigercat74 said:


> Sure they can. They can use the halting hex so Ramses doesn't get voted out. Short sited but they would pull one over on the house.


Well yeah, but that would be a dumb use of that power.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

not much going on in the house, the hg's look to be on cruise control until tomorrow's live eviction:

it appears ramses is still set to go home

paul, alex, & jason have to keep reminding josh not to act so happy around the house

matt & raven were involved in "activities" under the covers


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Kevin told Jessica about the plan to keep Josh. 

As per hamsterwatch.com:

Kevin pulled Jessica aside (into the toilet stall actually) to tell her he wasn't positive Josh was going, that there might be a plan underway to flip the vote. She immediately told Cody of course, and questioned Elena, and Cody questioned Jason and Alex.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

They had videos (or pictures?) for them to memorize for HOH so that killed any potential fallout from Kevin blabbing to Jessica. Great timing, Big Brother! 

Voting out Ramses is still the plan. The only people that do not know are Mark & Elena and poor innocent Ramses, lol. He just wasn't meant for this game. Kevin tipped him off on Sunday night that he needed to talk to Jessica and get her to save him with veto. He never talked to her. She was already doubting things by that time, and Ramses likely could've gotten her to save him if he would've just had a conversation. I watched for 5 hours or so on Sunday night waiting for him to talk to her. After a few near misses worthy of a Three's Company episode, he gave up. 

Also apparently the night before live eviction and HOH, Elena (with subtle prodding from Paul) thought it was a good idea to break up with Mark. They very well might makeup in the morning, but spending all night arguing is not going to help their HOH performance (not that Mark had a shot anyway).


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yes, kevin told jess that ramses is being voted out, jess finally realizes she wasted her veto (& hoh), wishes she'd replaced ramses with paul or alex, is furious, and blames cody

jess later confronts xmas & elena about their votes, xmas lies about her vote, elena is voting to evict josh (jess suspects paul has kept elena in the dark about the vote flip, and she's right)

when cody spoke to jason, Jason nervously denies knowing about the vote flip, then later jason runs to alex

jess wants to talk to raven, who might also convince matt not to flip, but cody want to swap the plan and talk to matt instead

paul wants to cover bases with elena about the vote flip in case she wins hoh

alex hid in the storage room trash can and scared the life out of jason

the hg's were studying a group of pics on the memory wall for an upcoming memory comp

paul is trying to isolate eleana, telling her it looked bad to hang out with jess, cody, & mark (his go-to strategy to isolate others), and while it appears to be working as she was avoiding mark, they later talked, kissed, and hugged, so who knows

the latest alliance chart from @89razorskate20:


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

morning update: josh has decided to follow mark around this morning while banging pots & pans, mark escaped to the hoh room for quiet, and is not pleased.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> morning update: josh has decided to follow mark around this morning while banging pots & pans, mark escaped to the hoh room for quiet, and is not pleased.


Does he want to be evicted?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

tigercat74 said:


> Does he want to be evicted?


my thoughts, exactly.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

alex, mark, matt, jason, & josh played in the temptation comp, mark won safety, jason lost and is the third nom this week

paul is now focused on the pov comp, in the hoh with alex, xmas, matt, raven, & jason

paul wants jess & cody on the block to flush out her power, elena is backup plan a, josh is backup plan b, depending on the veto and the power

jason isn’t sure what to do if he wins veto, paul tells him to throw the comp, or not to use it, and to trust the alliance (yeah, right)

for some reason, josh is banging pots & pans again? (cameras are ignoring him)

noms are jess & cody


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

So, it seems like this week is just not going to matter since Jess is certainly going to use her power. And then Paul is pissed. Again.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> So, it seems like this week is just not going to matter since Jess is certainly going to use her power. And then Paul is pissed. Again.


Not necessarily. Put Elena and Cody on the block and hope they don't win the veto. Make Jess use her power to save Cody or watch him walk out the door again. See if she will use her power to just save him.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Thursday would be a good time to have a "double eviction" so that one person still leaves. The producers won't do it though because they won't risk pet Paul being gone in a flash (he can't compete in HOH).


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

DancnDude said:


> So, it seems like this week is just not going to matter since Jess is certainly going to use her power. And then Paul is pissed. Again.


Cody spent all night convincing Jessica to just let him go. I don't think he's interested in being in the game anymore under the umbrella of protecting Jessica's game.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

tigercat74 said:


> Not necessarily. Put Elena and Cody on the block and hope they don't win the veto. Make Jess use her power to save Cody or watch him walk out the door again. See if she will use her power to just save him.


Jess is already on the block with Cody


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul, cody & jess went at it in the hoh room, paul asked cody to leave the hoh room, and then paul vented over and over and over all night

mark & josh almost came to blows about josh following mark banging pots & pans, production stepped in and told josh to stop, advised mark to steer clear of josh due to mark's size

jess tried to blow up matt & raven’s game to elena

jess & cody argue and about the noms and using the power, break up, then later kiss & make up

jess confesses to xmas the truth about the hex, with all the details, and xmas went straight to paul to tell him

bb announces a “storm watch” updates throughout the night (veto comp), hg's gather in the living room to watch

pov players are paul, jess, cody, raven, jason, kevin - xmas is hostess


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

What is the scope of the Hex powers?

My limited understanding is that she can pull one person off the block prior to eviction (limit use 1 time over 3 weeks). However, the way Jess and Cody talk (TV show), they act as if she can pull them both off. Surely she can't pull both of them off at the same time.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

It's the Halting Hex. She can halt the eviction for the week prior to the live vote.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

So that means there won't be an eviction when she uses the hex. In this case, Jess and Cody are both on block (along with a 3rd person), thus all three will be saved when she use it.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> So that means there won't be an eviction when she uses the hex. In this case, Jess and Cody are both on block (along with a 3rd person), thus all three will be saved when she use it.


That is correct. So, unless anything dramatic changes, Paul's HOH will be nothing. (The only things that I could see was that if Jody could convince everyone to vote for Jason instead of either Jess or Cody. But that is very unlikely.)


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

She may hold on to it though as Cody wants to go, sort of. With Cody the definite target wouldn't it make more sense for Jessica's game to just hold on to it? She would certainly get some personal satisfaction of it continuing to appear as if her hex is useless then activating it if she ends up on the block again before it expires.


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## KevinG (Sep 3, 2003)

rahnbo said:


> She may hold on to it though as Cody wants to go, sort of. With Cody the definite target wouldn't it make more sense for Jessica's game to just hold on to it?


Except the rest of the house knows that *SHE* has the power. So, even if everyone tells her that she is safe and they are voting to get Cody out, I'd guess they'd still take out Jess. She's the bigger long term threat than Cody anyway.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

KevinG said:


> Except the rest of the house knows that *SHE* has the power. So, even if everyone tells her that she is safe and they are voting to get Cody out, I'd guess they'd still take out Jess. She's the bigger long term threat than Cody anyway.


That is what I would do if I was the house.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

TriBruin said:


> That is correct. So, unless anything dramatic changes, Paul's HOH will be nothing. (The only things that I could see was that if Jody could convince everyone to vote for Jason instead of either Jess or Cody. But that is very unlikely.)


No. It would get rid of the hex.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I agree that the smartest thing would be to tell Jess they are getting rid of Cody (who says he wants to go) so that she won't use the Hex - then vote her out.

The only issue after that would be that Cody makes Jury. But not sure Paul would get either of their votes in the end so it really wouldn't matter.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

They decided to torment Jess/Cody 24/7 to somehow convince her not to use the Hex to save him or to make him hit someone or self evict. In addition, the house is mad that they're not guaranteed jury at this point. They believe that either Jess or Cody should willingly leave to allow everyone else to make jury. 

It came off really bad with ten people bullying Jess/Cody. They kept up for awhile, but then a fan with a megaphone yelled over the fence. "America loves Jess, Paul is a bully". Paul and his minions seemed deflated realizing that they were the bad guys, but of course, they're trying their best to rationalize their behavior.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

realityboy said:


> They decided to torment Jess/Cody 24/7 to somehow convince her not to use the Hex to save him or to make him hit someone or self evict. In addition, the house is mad that they're not guaranteed jury at this point. They believe that either Jess or Cody should willingly leave to allow everyone else to make jury.
> 
> It came off really bad with ten people bullying Jess/Cody. They kept up for awhile, but then a fan with a megaphone yelled over the fence. "America loves Jess, Paul is a bully". Paul and his minions seemed deflated realizing that they were the bad guys, but of course, they're trying their best to rationalize their behavior.


Thank you...That did a much better job of explaining what happened yesterday vs Hamsterwatch (which is my go to). I could not follow what exactly was going on, and the above is great context.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

That was just a quick summary. I liked the recap on Global (Canadian channel that shows BB) if you want more details. I stumbled upon it yesterday. I rarely go to Hamsterwatch. I always go to Jokers while watching, but their updates aren't that great anymore.

Big Brother 19 Spoilers: Houseguests hatch vicious plot


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Whoa! That's a bit too far. Quite a bit!

I read some on _Fans of Reality TV_, but am days and days behind... one friend texts me random updates, she said that there were recent things that might turn me against Christmas... against the whole house. I do believe that this is what she meant. Darnit!


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

SoBelle0 said:


> Whoa! That's a bit too far. Quite a bit!
> 
> I read some on _Fans of Reality TV_, but am days and days behind... one friend texts me random updates, she said that there were recent things that might turn me against Christmas... against the whole house. I do believe that this is what she meant. Darnit!


Agreed. Very slimy imo.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I read Hamsterwatch - they give good, quick summaries. I don't have time for stuff like Jokers.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> They decided to torment Jess/Cody 24/7 to somehow convince her not to use the Hex to save him or to make him hit someone or self evict.




SoBelle0 said:


> Whoa! That's a bit too far. Quite a bit!




bryhamm said:


> Agreed. Very slimy imo.


paul's let his power go to his head more than usual this season, with no problem rallying other hg's to do his bidding, routinely overreaching, and crossing line after line, so this continued obsessing isn't really surprising to me, unfortunately.

it will be interesting to see the cbs edit, they can only show so much of this, and for a lot of viewers it's all they'll know about. if they are true to events, i can see popularity easily turning against paul, but who knows, i'm frequently wrong when it comes to bb!


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Twitter has turned on him. He's lost support from all of the BB alum except for Gina Marie. 

CBS can't ignore it, but they also can't make the audience hate all of them. Maybe just leave some people out. I'd say Mark & Elena didn't do much. Kevin egged it in on in private but wasn't directly involved. Maybe show Matt being opposed to the plan initially. Josh is Josh. Raven might be a tough one. She was horrible, but she's so rarely on the show that I don't know how they'll portray her.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Based on what I read, I am just about done with this season. I used to like Alex and Christmas, but, as described in the article, no more. Attacking one's military service is just flat out wrong. 

I hope CBS will show what happened, but I am not holding my breath.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul has all the power, it's a wasted week for him, he knows it, is pissed, and reacting accordingly, as only paul & his minions can

matt seemed to be the voice of reason arguing a couple of times against xmas' dark plan of targeting cody's military service - who knew mat was still in the house? 

raven fake crying when talking with jess (at paul's direction), paul joining josh with pots & pans banging

this week is a mess, but it will pass thursday - imagine if jess or cody wins hoh


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> matt seemed to be the voice of reason arguing a couple of times against xmas' dark plan of targeting cody's military service - who knew mat was still in the house?


Xmas stands a good chance of trashing her career if she goes after Cody's military service.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I can't remember a season where I have hated so many of them.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

brianric said:


> Xmas stands a good chance of trashing her career if she goes after Cody's military service.


People are already leaving bad reviews for her book on Amazon. It's an ugly side of Big Brother fans that is seen way too often.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Xmas just came back from the doctor and immediately asked Jess to talk. I wonder if something might've slipped while she was out.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

wasn't it jess that asked to talk to xmas?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I think Xmas asked to talk to her, but nothing really came of it. Jess/Cody no longer trust her after yesterday.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

realityboy said:


> Twitter has turned on him. He's lost support from all of the BB alum except for Gina Marie.


Gina Marie? Was she the one who got fired in real life for saying racist things?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

verdugan said:


> Gina Marie? Was she the one who got fired in real life for saying racist things?


yes, the one and the same, along with aaryn, same season (bb15).


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

a couple of updates -

elena went for the havenot temptation and lost, so an extra week of slop for her

the latest alliance chart from @89razorskate20:


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I posted this (as a spoiler) on the CBS thread - but apparently the calling into question of Cody's military service has become a big thing.

If you believe TMZ that is.

'Big Brother' Star Cody Nickson Villain on Show, Hero in Marines


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i forgot to add in yesterday's update that the hg's were given the opportunity to practice a scaled down version of a golfing "crap shoot" competition, which i'm sure we'll watch on tonight's hoh comp.



Cainebj said:


> I posted this (as a spoiler) on the CBS thread - but apparently the calling into question of Cody's military service has become a big thing.


attempts to use cody's military service against him in attempted game move will surely backfire on those involved, it's stupid gameplay, and rightly scorned for how it was handled. clever players _might_ have been able to manipulate it gently into conversations by using less obvious tactics, not the ham handed methods suggested, but even that would have been a socially dangerous move, even when attempted by the best.

what i found interesting watching last night's show is when jess was upset with cody, his genuine desire to improve his communication with jess, and struggles to do so - it focused on sides of both players we haven't seen in previous show edits, and was a smart move by production.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> i forgot to add in yesterday's update that the hg's were given the opportunity to practice a scaled down version of a golfing "crap shoot" competition, which i'm sure we'll watch on tonight's hoh comp.


The thinking is that it will not be for the HOH competition (because Paul was allowed to practice), but for the temptation comp on Friday.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeak said:


> The thinking is that it will not be for the HOH competition (because Paul was allowed to practice), but for the temptation comp on Friday.


has it been confirmed by cbs or bb paul will be unable to play in tonight's hoh comp following the (expected) use of the hex? i can't remember it, and allowing paul to compete following the erasure of his noms/hoh week sounds exactly like another twist/consequence bb might allow.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> I posted this (as a spoiler) on the CBS thread - but apparently the calling into question of Cody's military service has become a big thing.
> 
> If you believe TMZ that is.
> 
> 'Big Brother' Star Cody Nickson Villain on Show, Hero in Marines


I saw this reported on some of the BB sites I follow as well. This has further heighten my dislike for Paul and his minions. Even Christmas, who I was really starting to like, was involved.

I think I am the point that I can't root for anyone to win. Jess would be the closest, but she has no chance at all.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> has it been confirmed by cbs or bb paul will be unable to play in tonight's hoh comp following the (expected) use of the hex? i can't remember it, and allowing paul to compete following the erasure of his noms/hoh week sounds exactly like another twist/consequence bb mighty allow.


I doubt BB or CBS would confirm anything. Otherwise, how would they make up the rules as they go to favor their chosen players? 

The way I understood the Hex is that all Jess is doing is "Halting" the eviction. Unlike the "Coup d'Tat" a few years ago, she is not overthrowing the HOH. If BB allows Paul to play, then they are just making up rules as they go along.

One thing is, I think, BB also trys to monitor popularity of the players. Paul was a popular player last year, and that is the reason he was brought back. However, I am hearing that the tide is turning against him because of his actions in the house (and probably more how his encouraging disgusting behavior by some of his minons.)


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

realityboy said:


> It came off really bad with ten people bullying Jess/Cody. They kept up for awhile, but then a fan with a megaphone yelled over the fence. "America loves Jess, Paul is a bully". Paul and his minions seemed deflated realizing that they were the bad guys, but of course, they're trying their best to rationalize their behavior.


I really hope they air the megaphone on CBS - I seem to remember the first couple of seasons they showed when someone hired a plane to fly over the backyard with a message - but I also seem to recall (I could be wrong) - they didn't show what the messages said and I had to find out elsewhere.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i remember there was skywriting at the beginning of this season, too. while i don't appreciate any potential impact to the game, i always smile at the persistence and clever ways some fans use in these feeble attempts to pass info to the hg's, especially since most of it are vague blurbs that are wildly open to interpretation.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> i can't remember it, and allowing paul to compete following the erasure of his noms/hoh week sounds exactly like another twist/consequence bb might allow.


Sounds like another act of favoritism giving him a path of least resistance.

Re/belittling Cody for his military service - I can't help but think of the Dixie Chicks and that the houseguests may be rudely awakened by that same treatment from the public when they depart the house. The Dixie Chicks didn't deserve that treatment but by attacking an individual serviceperson I think the houseguests might.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

series5orpremier said:


> Sounds like another act of favoritism giving him a path of least resistance.


maybe, maybe not, but i'm sure it was discussed at the time the hex idea was hashed out by production, and long before anyone knew who would have the power, or be hoh when it was used, so i doubt it.

add to this that past hoh's have reacted poorly to an unknown power released into the game effectively leaving their strategy exposed without recourse, any ability to mitigate this intrusion makes sense from a fairness standpoint alone.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, they do have the freedom to finalize the rules as they go.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> I really hope they air the megaphone on CBS - I seem to remember the first couple of seasons they showed when someone hired a plane to fly over the backyard with a message - but I also seem to recall (I could be wrong) - they didn't show what the messages said and I had to find out elsewhere.


I doubt they will. For the most part, BB tries to keep the HG insulated from the outside world and doesn't want their game play influenced by the public. Back with BB first began, the banner planes were very active and BB would always call for a inside lockdown if a plane was in the area. (There was a very short time that CBS flew their own banners as part of challenges, but that didn't last very long, and BB went back to discouraging banners.) I thought I heard awhile ago, that CBS now pays off the local banner plane owners to NOT fly over the BB house. But, that isn't 100% of course. And, sometimes HGs do get to read the messages before BB can force them back inside.

Speaking of outside influences, I read speculation that Paul's letter during his first HOH was likely a coded message about the other HGs (who to trust, who not to, etc.) I know BB does try and prevent that (the messages are all typed and spacing is changed.) but outside influences are always going to be a part of the game.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> has it been confirmed by* cbs or bb paul will be unable to play in tonight's hoh* comp following the (expected) use of the hex? i can't remember it, and allowing paul to compete following the erasure of his noms/hoh week sounds exactly like another twist/consequence bb might allow.


Yes, it has been confirmed from the producer:

Big Brother 19 interview: Allison Grodner on Temptation Competition, Halting Hex rule



> *This question is mostly about the rules of the Halting Hex. If Jessica plays it this week, will she be eligible to compete in the next Head of Household? Or, will she still be treated again as the outgoing HOH and Paul will be able to compete?*
> 
> The Halting Hex is separate from the HOH and the rules of the HOH. She will be eligible to play the week after it is used unless she is already HOH. Paul will be ineligible to play in the next HOH just as it would have been without the Hex.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

thanks, but i'm still not ready to concede his participation in practice is a sign it's not for the upcoming hoh comp - i've been wrong before (this season), so it wouldn't be the first time!


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> thanks, but i'm still not ready to concede his participation in practice is a sign it's not for the upcoming hoh comp - i've been wrong before (this season), so it wouldn't be the first time!


Yeah don't disagree. No one really knows.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Not really much of note Thursday night. Obvious targets are obvious. Christmas might be starting to get tired of Paul calling the shots. She told Josh that she loves Paul but he shouldn't do everything that Paul tells him to. She also seemed reluctant to use her temptation this week when Paul brought it up.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I was really surprised of how much they did NOT show on the CBS broadcast. For a bunch of reasons. Big Brother loves public controversy - yet the 2 things that happened this season that got news play they did not show on the main broadcast. (Paul and his black face and the house going after Cody over his military record).


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> I was really surprised of how much they did NOT show on the CBS broadcast. For a bunch of reasons. Big Brother loves public controversy - yet the 2 things that happened this season that got news play they did not show on the main broadcast. (Paul and his black face and the house going after Cody over his military record).


Paul came off as a complete bully in his TV edit but reading here and elsewhere it looks like others in the house got off easy.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> I was really surprised of how much they did NOT show on the CBS broadcast. For a bunch of reasons. Big Brother loves public controversy - yet the 2 things that happened this season that got news play they did not show on the main broadcast. (Paul and his black face and the house going after Cody over his military record).


There was absolutely nothing else to show for the blackface controversy. He dressed as a snake and used a black face mask to paint his face. They showed it.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i predict it's going to be an interesting immunity temptation and veto comp this week (is it time for otev yet?), but with paul josh as hoh, i'm not expecting any other surprises.


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

I wonder if this week will be a double eviction since there was no eviction last night.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it's about time for a de, or ffwd, it's historically around the start of jury sequestration, so...in two weeks? julie always announces it live on the thursday before.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Josh would prefer to get out Elena this week, but I don't think he really gets a say even though he is HOH. No one must defy Paul.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Remember that we had one person quit as well so likely one less double eviction week than a normal season.


----------



## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

DancnDude said:


> Remember that we had one person quit as well so likely one less double eviction week than a normal season.


Did they still do an eviction when Megan quit or was she the "evictee" that week?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

DVR_Dave said:


> Did they still do an eviction when Megan quit or was she the "evictee" that week?


The week kept on going. Cody had to replace her since she was nominated.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the temptation comp has been underway for 6+ hours, it appears most everyone is playing except josh, maybe xmas (josh told her to take it easy). plans are swirling throughout the house:

cody & jess are planning for one of them to win, then the other to throw the temptation comp, to ensure one plays for veto as the 3rd nom, with josh likely nom mark & elena next to the loser if one of them wins immunity

jason is also planning on throwing the comp to lock himself in as the 3rd nom, trying to keep cody or jess out of the pov comp as the third nom, in case cody or jess throws the comp

paul is pleased everyone is making jess feel comfortable, so he can manipulate the vote to blindside her this week if she doesn't win immunity, while upsetting cody at the same time as a plus

josh wants elena gone, and xmas told him to not only keep his plans from paul, but to look for an opportunity to talk about working a safety deal with cody & jess for next week


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Cody won. Jess came in last and is 3rd nominee per their plan. Josh still hasn't done nominations, but it looks like he'll put up Mark/Elena. He wants Elena as the target. Paul says it has to be Jess.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

He nominated Mark/Elena. Josh wants to target Elena, but I don't think he has the votes.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm psyched Cody won. I have to say, it makes zero sense that Josh is targeting Elena. I guess we will find out why he is suddenly after her...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the veto comp will be great, can't wait for the results.

with immunity, is cody eligible to be picked to play in the veto comp? that would be incredible!


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Cainebj said:


> I'm psyched Cody won. I have to say, it makes zero sense that Josh is targeting Elena. I guess we will find out why he is suddenly after her...


You'd think between those two he'd want Mark out, or to backdoor Cody. Unless he gets so much of a bipolar high banging pots and pans at them. He might realize as soon as Paul runs out of adversaries for him to harass he loses most of his value to Paul, but then again I don't give him any credit for being that much of a thinker.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> the veto comp will be great, can't wait for the results.
> 
> with immunity, is cody eligible to be picked to play in the veto comp? that would be incredible!


Yes, he can play and that is the hope of Jody


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

josh has already ignored xmas' advice, and told paul his target is elena, so now paul has plenty of time to massage the vote following the veto comp - josh effectively ended his hoh by telling paul his plans.

elean is not pleased with being nominated, mark was is indifferent (he was told he's a pawn). paul thinks he's making things better by telling the hg's he's a fighter and volunteered to be put up by josh as a pawn - hearing that didn't make elena any happier, and isn't exactly helping josh's game.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Does Christmas still have her veto replacement power? It's probably expired by now I suppose.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Does Christmas still have her veto replacement power? It's probably expired by now I suppose.


She still has it. Paul ordered her to use it this week. At first, she didn't want to, but she's either changed her mind or decided it's easier to tell Paul what he wants to hear.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

xmas is beginning to play smart again, and has been giving josh good advice...it's the first sign paul's stranglehold on the house is showing cracks. 

let's hope xmas uses the power to shake up the veto comp.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

realityboy said:


> She still has it. Paul ordered her to use it this week. At first, she didn't want to, but she's either changed her mind or decided it's easier to tell Paul what he wants to hear.


And to be clear, she can't use it on Jess


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

but she could use it on paul...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

elena is the only havenot this week, completing the additional week consequence following her loss of the havenot temptation - talk about adding insult to injury!


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> but she could use it on paul...


Or on Cody so he can't win and pull Jess off.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

sure, that's what _paul_ has in mind, but josh appears to be controlling his own hoh this week, and xmas has been working to support him behind the scenes, so i can't help but hope for a little anti-paul house revolt drama.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

tigercat74 said:


> Or on Cody so he can't win and pull Jess off.


Ends up that is exactly what happened.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, and i'm disappointed with xmas, she either must really want jess out, or is more worried about paul than anyone, but there's still the chance for jess to win the veto.

considering who was on the block, i see it as a waste of the power, it might have come in real handy later on, and josh said he didn't want it used. 

i guess whatever makes paul happy...


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

Squeak said:


> Ends up that is exactly what happened.


You mean I predicted something right. I never do that.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

players in the veto comp: josh, jess, elena, mark, alex, & xmas - kevin is hosting

xmas is attempting to talk to jess about why she used the temptation power to take cody out of the pov comp, jess isn't hearing it (timing much, xmas?).

julie chen said she was on team jess


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And Mark won veto. He'll obviously save himself even though Josh and Christmas want to talk him out of it. Jess will be gone.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

NorthAlabama said:


> ...is it time for otev yet?...


finally, i guessed right, it _was_ time for otev.

elean was first out, followed by jess, josh, and alex, leaving mark the win (xmas wasn't cleared to play in the comp).


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I'm reading joker's updates and hamster watch and these people are just bizarre. Most of what they say makes no sense. Their anger towards someone is like at the 8th grade level. I don't know if I've seen this as bad before. I don't want ANY of them to win.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NJChris said:


> I'm reading joker's updates and hamster watch and these people are just bizarre. Most of what they say makes no sense. Their anger towards someone is like at the 8th grade level. I don't know if I've seen this as bad before. I don't want ANY of them to win.


At this point, I want Kevin to win.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov ceremony, no surprises, mark used the veto on himself, raven replaced him, so it's jess, elena, and raven on the block - this should be a glaring red flag for alex & xmas.

bb has been playing sound effects in the house probably for a future comp: a baby crying, a barking dog, a jack hammer, and a drum solo.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

add a lawnmower to the list of sound effects played in the house by bb

jason and kevin debated working with cody while they were in the back yard (we'll see, at least it's another sign of further weakening of paul's stranglehold on the house - these hg's better wake up, and fast, before paul stacks the jury)

at different times both xmas & alex were trash-talking raven, to josh & kevin respectively

the hg's celebrated kevin's birthday

there's been another friday night ep scheduled, guesses are it's a clip ep like last year

the latest alliance/deals chart from @89razorskate20:


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Another big fight yesterday. On Tuesdays, they get glasses that they use for Snapchat. I never really pay much attention to it. I always thought it was ridiculous that they got so excited for a camera, but everyone does usually seem pretty excited for it. Josh and a few others decided to dance around in their tutus with the pots and pans for Snapchat. I don't think it was directed at Jess & Cody, but it did irritate them. Then, in the kitchen, Paul and Josh were talking about Matt's showers (he showers multiple times per day like 4-5) and the drought. Jessica interrupted to ask Josh if he could even spell drought. He was actually able to spell it. She said that she was proud of him but that there were probably hundreds of other words that he couldn't spell. Then, she went outside with Cody. After stewing on it for a while and being prodded by Xmas & Paul, Josh went outside to confront. Screaming match ensued, and then Josh went to his room to cry. 

About an hour later, Josh decided that it would be a good idea to antagonize them more. He got out his pots and pans, but production put an end to it fairly quickly. He's no longer allowed to bang pots & pans.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jess & cody were nasty with their comments during the fight, and jess _was_ being a jerk when it started, but it was josh who instigated the confrontation with cody, and then went running and crying to the hoh because he was called names when cody stood up to him - josh is unhinged.

mark was watching the fight wearing the snapchat galsses, and paul seized the opportunity to ask mark why he didn't come to josh's defense, to which mark pointed out no one ever jumped in when josh was going after him (true). paul later used mark's indifference in an attempt to sway other hg's against mark - amazing.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

realityboy said:


> About an hour later, Josh decided that it would be a good idea to antagonize them more. He got out his pots and pans, but production put an end to it fairly quickly. He's no longer allowed to bang pots & pans.


That may have happened because CBS is under intense criticism to allow bullying to continue.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

NorthAlabama said:


> mark was watching the fight wearing the snapchat galsses, and paul seized the opportunity to ask mark why he didn't come to josh's defense, to which mark pointed out no one ever jumped in when josh was going after him (true). paul later used mark's indifference in an attempt to sway other hg's against mark - amazing.


 Paul uses any opportunity to influence others. Even trying to get sympathy saying a vet never can win the game (in an attempt for them to take him to f2 thinking he can't win). Even tho Nicole won bb18. But I blame the Houseguests for being so dumb. They know he is like this yet they believe EVERY word he says.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

brianric said:


> That may have happened because CBS is under intense criticism to allow bullying to continue.


That or it's because he accidentally hit Raven's hand with a pan. Of course, she milked it for all it was worth. She wasn't completely innocent either. She got the pans and lined them up on the counter for Josh.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

how many terminal illnesses does raven have again? please remind me...

it's amazing doctors cleared her for the show.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

One of them is so rare that it doesn't even have a name. They call it Raven's disease according to her.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there was another attempt to yell "evict raven" to the hg's, but since the perpetrators announced it on twitter in advance bb was ready, played a siren and called for an indoor lockdown, so no one heard - the hg's didn't have a clue what was up.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Hehe. That siren was leftover from BB:OTT when someone tried to yell about the sisters. There's also been a few comps that returned this year after debuting on BB:OTT. The Temptation Competition in the dark from this past week was the veto that was played on Halloween in BB:OTT, and the HOH that Paul won where they found tickets and rolled a ball was a more elaborate version of an HOH comp from BB:OTT that Paul hosted.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

someone also mentioned the siren was used in se9 to signal the end of a twist, but i don't remember it (didn't watch bb: ott).

the comps have really improved in recent seasons, and i'm really hoping for the comic book cover challenge to return this year - production has a lot to work with this season.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

BB:OTT was actually pretty fun*. The comps were more creative but less elaborate. The HOH comp that Jess won was also from OTT. A huge elaborate set isn't really needed to watch someone hold a stick. 

*America had a bit too much involvement so discussing OTT online was not fun at all. Joker's had to make 2 separate discussion boards for the two warring factions of fans which were pretty evenly divided. (Ballsmashers vs Late Night Jamboree)


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

So now Jessica's unwanted touching has made it to TMZ. It's slightly less of a non-story than the blackface thing, but it's still being blown out of proportion. It wasn't a recent occurrence (it mostly happened while Cody was gone), and Jessica was not the only one to do it.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bb sounded a party horn, then a cat call (guy whistling), then more jackhammer, and later a kitty yowling

josh is super paranoid watching the hg’s while in the hoh room, paul’s smearing of mark is working on josh, josh is upset that mark hinted josh had provoked yesterday’s argument (josh did play a part in it, jess and cody had walked away, josh followed them) 

mark and jason were talking about working with cody to get rid of paul (as josh watched from the hoh monitor), then later jason says he’s abandoned the idea of working with cody (the idea might look better again after he's nominated for eviction)


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> So now Jessica's unwanted touching has made it to TMZ. It's slightly less of a non-story than the blackface thing, but it's still being blown out of proportion. It wasn't a recent occurrence (it mostly happened while Cody was gone), and Jessica was not the only one to do it.


Twitter web player


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

mark & elena shared a “was it good for you?” moment under the sheets in the wee hours of the morning

upon waking, cody & jess cuddled while declaring their neverending love for each other, then later practiced for cody's hoh comp tonight

meanwhile, paul, xmas, & alex preferred raven bashing over breakfast (matt appears to be losing friends, too, maybe as a result?)

paul has been debating the idea of throwing this weeks hoh comp, in anticipation of an upcoming de/ffwd (it’s got to be coming soon)

cody, mark, & elena remain the biggest targets in the house


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Does anybody know if Paul was given some kind of "signing bonus" for coming back this season? In other words, he gets $$ exactly what every other HG does per week, but was given something extra for coming back. Its a bit like how a few NFL players get a huge signing bonus after 1-2 years working for for scale; they are getting compensated for already done a great job.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Most likely. The returners all did last year. It was a flat amount plus a bonus for making jury. Nicole said she was the only one that didn't ask for increased pay, but they ended up paying all 4 anyway.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> Twitter web player


Maybe, I just have a poor sense of humor, but do that to me and there is a good possibility you might be missing some teeth afterwards.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Jstkiddn said:


> Maybe, I just have a poor sense of humor, but do that to me and there is a good possibility you might be missing some teeth afterwards.


it could have something to do with my disdain for raven, too.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

josh claims bb said not to talk to cody (they don’t want cody to leave the game)

paul is concerned cody & jess are getting a favorable showmance edit, making him look like a jerk (look like?)

paul wants to win safety while someone volunteers to throw the temptation comp, so cody won’t automatically play for pov (and cody can be backdoored)

paul suggested josh as a have not so he’d get back in shape, along with cody to drive cody crazy (josh plans to antagonize cody the entire week, or until bb shuts him down)

alex talks of putting matt & elena on the block, then mark & matt, but paul tried to change her mind to nom mark & elena (since it’s his hoh?), paul is afraid if they target matt or raven this week, one could split off to join cody, mark & elena in an alliance

the house appears to be over both matt & raven, but still need their votes, so will not target them (yet)

drum solo sound effects in the house (temptation comp?)


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> it could have something to do with my disdain for raven, too.


Possibly. I haven't really kept up with much feed stuff this season, but after some Googling and seeing that she's done this quite a few times and to so many different people, I can't believe CBS didn't make her stop. Paul was 100% correct that if it had been him (or any other man) doing that, then they'd be charged with sexual assault. But she's gone and I guess it's a moot point now. I'm just glad I don't have to see those awful nappy looking hair extensions any longer.


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

this website is speculating Jess left the house pregnant !

'Big Brother 19' Spoilers: Was Jessica Evicted Pregnant From The 'BB19' House?


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

tivoknucklehead said:


> this website is speculating Jess left the house pregnant !
> 
> 'Big Brother 19' Spoilers: Was Jessica Evicted Pregnant From The 'BB19' House?


I did notice Cody rubbing her belly in last night's episode. Hmmmmmm....


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yes, there was mention of her taking a pic of the pregnancy test when she made it home, for cody to see later.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

well, there goes alex's paul's plan to nominate mark & elena this week, or even matt & elena -

mark won safety in the temptation comp, again! matt threw the comp, so he's the third nominee (jason came close to winning).

it's going to be interesting to see who will be nominated besides elena (pretty much a given), since they don't want cody to have a guaranteed spot in the veto comp.

unless cody wins pov, he's probably off to jury.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Since Matt is already up there it seems it would be convenient to throw Raven up as well in case they need a plan B (breaking up another showmance).


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

but wouldn't matt being the third nom already accomplish that? it very well could be raven, with all the raven bashing that's been going on behind her back. 

elena is upset with being a pawn again this week, jason's worried (as usual) he'd get votes if he was sitting next to matt & elena, raven suggested josh so josh is mad at raven, but alex told josh in the hoh she had his and jason's back, so it's anyone's guess. i think kevin even suggested paul so he'd be guaranteed to play in the veto comp. 

nominations today is already being displayed in the living room, so we'll know soon.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> Possibly. I haven't really kept up with much feed stuff this season, but after some Googling and seeing that she's done this quite a few times and to so many different people, I can't believe CBS didn't make her stop. Paul was 100% correct that if it had been him (or any other man) doing that, then they'd be charged with sexual assault. But she's gone and I guess it's a moot point now. I'm just glad I don't have to see those awful nappy looking hair extensions any longer.


Actually, Paul did it to Jason a few times, and Matt definitely did it to Jessica on more than one occasion.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

It's harder to do with just Matt up there. First, Raven gets a vote. Second, with two more non-Cody nomination pawns on the block there's a lot more opportunity for the voters to get creatively frisky and flip some others into thinking they'd rather evict someone else while the opportunity presents itself.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

don't get me wrong, i'd love to see raven on the block, so let's hope alex comes through, she's no fan of raven. cody winning the veto would be icing on the cake.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

This week, either Cody goes or he wins veto. If he wins veto, he might as well save Elena forcing the group to dump one of their own.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i caught these tweets from former hg's about this season posted online, some of the others not below have been brutal (see evil dick's feed, unless your a fan of paul or raven):


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

xmas saw (overheard?) mark whispering to cody, told alex, so, of course, there was another argument tonight - it started between xmas & mark, then josh felt the need to jump in against mark when it moved to the kitchen, when next josh switched to cody (who was pretty much minding his own business), then back to xmas & mark. it eventually settled down (no pots & pans), with mark in the apple room relaxing with kevin once xmas left the room.

i am _really_ beginning to dislike xmas - the more she opens her mouth, the deeper my dislike.

and now, time for nominations...


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jason & elena were nominated, sitting next to matt.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

after rehashing the first week in the house with dom for the umpteenth time, xmas & mark hugged it out last night

bb woke the hg’s up early, before 8am bb time

there’s construction underway outside the house (the veto comp)

there’s been a bit of kevin bashing in the hoh room, both last night and this morning, mostly paul & alex - paul is making sure his next targets are all lined up so he can continue off the radar (concerned about jess’ eviction night speech, buddy? those were some loud cheers for jess when she left the house to meet julie, weren't they?)

veto players are alex, jason, elena, matt, mark, & paul, jason hosting

worries about mark winning veto and not using it (cody’s only hope)


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

well, bb sure knows how to shake up what looked to be a boring week in the house until thursday...a temptation/consequence, reward/punishment veto comp!

matt won the veto - outback steakhouse (will use the veto on jason, cody as replacement as expected, next to matt & elena)

mark won a trip to colorado

elena won $5000 (took money over the veto, punishing alex - see next)

alex has to dress as a campfire girl, and each time the bugle sounds for 1 week, must pitch a tent, assemble a grill, then cook each hg 1 hot dog, disassemble the tent & grill (as a result of elena's taking the $5k - oops! be careful who you put on the block as a pawn 2 weeks running...)

jason has to wear the xtreme-i-tard for 1 week (has to wear the x-helmet in the shower)

paul & xmas will be tethered for 2 days (like sky-diving), full gear - jumpsuits, helmets, goggles (can remove helmet/goggles for sleep, must shower with the helmets on)

alex is really, _really_ upset elena took the money over the veto, leaving her grilling hot dogs at all hours for 1 week, hints to josh she may campaign to take her out this week (over cody)

no havenots this week. at first alex said she was sticking to her deal to not make elena a havenot for her birthday, then suggested she changed her mind, but now it doesn't matter

elena is worried by alex's reaction (rightly so, elena supposedly broke a deal not to curse alex, but then took the cash)

as soon as alex grills her first time, and packs everything up, bb sounds the bugle again (and again at 4am) - alex is *not* pleased

cody spoke with alex outside while she was grilling, and pitched staying this week - alex said it's not up to her (she doesn't vote), then later relayed the conversation to paul

paul continues to take subtle stabs at kevin, sewing seeds of doubt about kevin at every opportunity, suggesting kevin's acting shady (making sure kevin's a target before paul)

eta: cody has really stepped up his social game the past couple of days, has been hanging out and joking in the kitchen and hoh room, and not looking miserable. while he's been caught alone in the havenot room & apple room, he's not isolating himself, and appears to be trying hard to fit in with the group. i don't think it will matter that much considering paul's never-ending desire to see him gone, elena has been thinking about being a constant pawn at the bottom of the house majority, and that it might be time to make a move, maybe with matt & raven - mark continues to be clueless. unfortunately, elena spoke with raven, who always runs to paul with her info.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> no havenots this week.


There are havenots this week -- Kevin, Mark, Paul, Jason are Have-not. They can also eat Alex's hot dogs.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Squeak said:


> There are havenots this week -- Kevin, Mark, Paul, Jason are Have-not. They can also eat Alex's hot dogs.


She's kinda cute in that outfit.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeak said:


> There are havenots this week -- Kevin, Mark, Paul, Jason are Have-not. They can also eat Alex's hot dogs.


yes, finally revealed today (after my post) - surprised elena didn't end up a havenot!


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> yes, finally revealed today (after my post) - surprised elena didn't end up a havenot!


yeah, sounds like Alex was going to be good to her word about not giving to Elena because of her birthday, but then ultimately it was out of her control (was first 4 out of HoH contest)


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeak said:


> yeah, sounds like Alex was going to be good to her word about not giving to Elena because of her birthday, but then ultimately it was out of her control (was first 4 out of HoH contest)


alex's been cursing elena pretty badly under her breath during the grilling punishment.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the havenot temptation hasn’t been accepted yet, paul refuses to chance it, mark is debating it

cody made a couple of pitches to alex for him to stay and split the house vote (and target paul), she & jason listened and nodded, then told paul and the rest of the alliance about the conversations, and cody’s plan to put up raven as the replacement nom

paul’s plan is to keep cody from alex before the veto meeting, by not leaving alex alone for cody to talk to her

lots of kevin bashing this morning, then cody, mark, & elena bashing, and later raven bashing (paul, xmas, jason, alex, & josh)

plan for veto meeting is still matt using the veto on jason, cody goes up (& out), then target mark & elena for the upcoming suspected de (mark as the target)

cody is realizing this morning his attempts to convince alex have failed since he hasn’t heard back from her (too bad matt refuses to think for himself at all, or he might have been an opportunity for cody)

while matt using the veto on jason gets cody out, i still think agreeing not using it on himself is stupid (always), even while he’s promised safety this week – of course, if matt did use it on himself, there’s no replacement nom, so the cody backdoor plan immediately fails and matt becomes the target


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto ceremony over, went as planned, cody on the block next to elena & matt. cody has his work cut out for him if he wants to stay by picking up votes (as in cody has no chance)

alex, jason, matt, & raven agreed to cast a vote to evict elena to shake up mark & elena (and create general havoc)


----------



## 10_pearljam (Dec 28, 2005)

Glad to see Cody go. Would like to see Mark and Elena go next followed by Paul.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

These people. Yesterday it was a fight over a pillow. Today it's a fight over cereal. So ridiculous.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> These people. Yesterday it was a fight over a pillow. Today it's a fight over cereal. So ridiculous.


all they do is argue, it's 24/7 mean girls. sometimes it's on purpose to irritate mark, cody, & elena, but other times it's just because alex, paul, xmas, josh, & raven are some of the most disgusting human beings - i can't imagine being cameron or jillian at home watching these freaks.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> all they do is argue, it's 24/7 mean girls. sometimes it's on purpose to irritate mark, cody, & elena, but other times it's just because alex, paul, xmas, josh, & raven are some of the most disgusting human beings - i can't imagine being cameron or jillian at home watching these freaks.


Jessica was watching and tweeting about as it was ongoing.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I really want Kevin to win. He is the only decent human being in there.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> I really want Kevin to win. He is the only decent human being in there.


I didn't care for him telling everyone about Cody's daughter and brother, and the flirting with Christmas is cringe. On another season that would make him unlikable, but with this group, he's still ahead of the curve.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul decided to attempt to hammer his final nail into kevin's coffin (after days of working to undermine kevin's game), by telling josh, alex, & jason it was kevin who took the $25k. josh said he already knew, jason said it didn't matter since he really didn't like ramses anyway, and alex was surprised, but not shocked - probably not the reactions paul had hoped for

yesterday alex, paul, jason, & josh finally get a clue that while one bully (josh) was irritating mark, mass bullying is pushing mark & elena closer together

cody's still a goner, mark & elena are in trouble if one of them don't win hoh or pov, with kevin queued up behind them


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

a longer than usual feed blackout was announced by cbs, following thursday’s de ep they’re off until after friday’s ep, claims it will be worth the wait

jason realized paul’s revelation of kevin taking the $25k was to make kevin a target (yes), but no signs he's willing work with kevin, mark & elena to make a move before it's too late, since he's safe (for now)

elena & mark compare notes, and figure out paul is behind all the arguments in the house (ding! ding! ding!), elena & mark see themselves as the new jess & cody, and see matt & raven as the new elena & mark (ding! ding! ding!) - too bad these realizations have happened when it’s probably too late to make game moves to counter, but it reveals growing cracks in paul’s strategy - will any of paul’s allies finally catch on to paul's steamrolling the house, and turn on him before they’re in jury? (i say no)

there seems to be zero plans in place for thursday’s de other than alex & paul deciding their next targets are mark, matt, then kevin, so in the off-chance the next hoh is won by mark or elena things might shake up - elena wants to nom alex & josh, mark would probably nom paul


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

shuffleboard practice in the backyard yesterday (for one of the de comps on thursday? xmas thinks so)

cody told elena he’s going to try to help mark & elena by calling out jason & alex (during the live show eviction speech?)

alex is intentionally burning the hot dogs before giving them to mark, elena, & cody

elena is dumping ice and putting empty trays in the freezer (alex hates this, saw elena on the hoh tv)

alex poured salt in the bag of sugar (for cody?)

paul's kevin bashing continues


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Very interesting after last night's live broadcast to hear that Alex has been reporting back to Paul on Cody's attempt to stay in the house. By NOT putting that on the CBS live broadcast they are creating more of a red herring that she might change her mind than I can see now she actually would.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yes, they are intentionally creating drama for the next 2 eps tonight & tomorrow, but i don't fault them for leaving it out - we all know where alex's loyalties lie, and for all we know, the outback dinner seg may have pushed it out.

there were indications jason was sick after eating outback (raven too, though she appears to be allergic to oxygen). interesting note, raven has noticed she isn't being called to the dr...at all (sure her mom's disappointed with the lack of fundraising air time).

another note, while i saw cody pouring coffee into the sink yesterday morning, i hadn't put together what was going on - he made regular coffee for himself, then before others made it to the kitchen, he grabbed decaf from storage, made a pot for the other hg's, pouring some out to make it appear it was what he was drinking - great prank, but matt made a fresh pot of regular. he's also been deliberately using josh's (marked) coffee cup the past few mornings (turn about's fair play!).


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I wonder if at this point if anyone knows what they are drinking because a few weeks ago Paul and someone else (I forgot who, probably Jason) was swapping around the contents of the regular and decaf containers in the pantry to tick off Cody. 

Jason did get sick both from overeating and the fact that something he ate caused his face to swell up for a few hours. He thinks it was something in the Blooming Onion sauce.

FYI, for whoever else is watching BBAD on POP the guide data in my area has been cutting every show an hour short. I happened to be awake and caught it when it started Tuesday. I've added an hour padding for the next two weeks.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the house is primping for the live show, mark helped cody by using clippers to trim the nape of cody's neck (mark was scared he'd mess up)

next, it's paul's turn using the clippers to give josh a haircut, and paul seriously messed up josh's hair - a big departure from the original trim idea. efforts to correct paul's mistake have taken most of josh's hair! i think it looks good, just probably not what josh was expecting, then paul yelled at josh when josh refused to let him "line up" the sides.


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

Other than Kevin I'm not sure there is anyone I don't dislike left in the house.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

josh wore a bandana to cover paul's botched haircut last night, i laughed when i saw him (it really wasn't that bad!).


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

This is my first time coming into the spoiler thread this season. The only reason I'm here is because someone posted a comment in the other thread indicating that Raven and her family might be pulling some kind of GoFundMe scam. Is this true? Is she lying about her medical condition? My wife and I had been wondering why they've been showing so little of her lately, particularly a lack of DR interviews.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

gweempose said:


> This is my first time coming into the spoiler thread this season. The only reason I'm here is because someone posted a comment in the other thread indicating that Raven and her family might be pulling some kind of GoFundMe scam. Is this true? Is she lying about her medical condition? My wife and I had been wondering why they've been showing so little of her lately, particularly a lack of DR interviews.


You can see what for sure looks like a pacemaker in her abdominal area so I don't think she's making up the condition. Now if there is some kind of scam going who knows? I know Matt did his little ad during the eviction for awareness month. Not sure there is more to it than that.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there has been little discussion of raven, her multiple and growing list of illnesses (besides her actual illness), or her and her mom's gofundme efforts in this thread, but if you type the words "bb19 raven exposed illness gofundme" in different combinations in your favorite search engine, or search twitter for the #ravenexposed & #ravenexposedparty hashtags, you'll find a lot, and i mean _a lot_ of reading material and speculation.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> there has been little discussion of raven, her multiple and growing list of illnesses (besides her actual illness), or her and her mom's gofundme efforts in this thread, but if you type the words "bb19 raven exposed illness gofundme" in different combinations in your favorite search engine, or search twitter for the #ravenexposed & #ravenexposedparty hashtags, you'll find a lot, and i mean _a lot_ of reading material and speculation.


Well I just did a little searching, and it doesn't seem like there is any proof that she is lying about anything. Some people suspect she is lying, while others think she's maybe just exaggerating her condition for sympathy.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

raven obviously has a serious medical condition which she has under control with treatment, i don't believe anyone seriously doubts it.

the controversy arose due to observations of raven's behavior, claims, comments, and perceived exaggerations on the live feeds. when combined with her mom's fundraising efforts and social media comments, along with behavior previously identified with medical fundraising scams, it's driving the speculation to a head, resulting in animosity towards raven.

add to all of this the knowledge that cbs/bb wouldn't let someone who was seriously ill compromise their health by allowing them to compete on the show, it's not surprising, or necessarily wrong to ask questions - but, as is usual with most social media frenzies, a lot of it is over the top and unfounded.

of course there's no proof, either way, and there never will be, unless raven decides to publically release her medical records, and why would she?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Well I just did a little searching, and it doesn't seem like there is any proof that she is lying about anything. Some people suspect she is lying, while others think she's maybe just exaggerating her condition for sympathy.


She's constantly said that she has multiple terminal illnesses. Yet, she hasn't gotten sick or even needed to see a doctor for a checkup in the past few months on the show. She's begging for money for medical bills while opening her second dance studio, going on vacations, & getting a new car. While, it does seem the gastroparesis is real (but not terminal), she and her mother had to go to several doctors before finding one that would put in the pacemaker.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

At this point, while I'd love to see Mark or Xmas make a move, I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm kind of rooting for a Matt/Raven final 2. It's a fitting end to this train wreck.



Spoiler: Reddit HOH Spoiler



the same Reddit poster that has correctly spoiled things in the past, is saying that Christmas won HOH.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> At this point, while I'd love to see Mark or Xmas make a move, I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm kind of rooting for a Matt/Raven final 2. It's a fitting end to this train wreck.


after listening to xmas join in with all the josh/alex/raven arguing nonsense, and watching her overall unwarranted nastiness towards other hg's in the house (not game related), the only move i want to see her make is out the door and into jury.

mark is my preferred hg to win at this point, but i don't believe he stands a chance. that said, #anyonebutpaul in final 3. and if paul does make it to final 3 or 2 (which appears extremely likely at this point), then loses the grand prize _again_, i'd be ok with that, too.



realityboy said:


> Spoiler: Reddit HOH Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> the same Reddit poster that has correctly spoiled things in the past, is saying that Christmas won HOH.


since we'll know the truth in about 5 hours, and it'd be foolish to post if it wasn't true and risk being subjected to reddit wrath, destroying a reputation in the process, it probably is.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

realityboy said:


> At this point, while I'd love to see Mark or Xmas make a move, I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm kind of rooting for a Matt/Raven final 2. It's a fitting end to this train wreck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Even more spoiler



Paul threw the comp to Xmas


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeak said:


> Spoiler: Even more spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Paul threw the comp to Xmas


this wouldn't surprise me at all, as it would be a really smart move all around at this point in the game.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

xmas is hoh, jason & matt are the noms, plan is probably to bd mark depending on veto comp results

havenots are still kevin & paul (not Jason since he won hoh during the de, mark won the havenot temptation)


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Mark is still the primary target, but it seems that the secondary target has shifted to Jason instead of Matt. While Jason did call out Mark for wanting to target Paul, Paul did not like that he wasn't informed immediately when it happened.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> Mark is still the primary target, but it seems that the secondary target has shifted to Jason instead of Matt. While Jason did call out Mark for wanting to target Paul, Paul did not like that he wasn't informed immediately when it happened.


meanwhile, matt & raven have begun to plot behind paul's back, wishing xmas had nom'd alex instead of jason in case there was an opportunity to get alex out - these are the growing signs of cracks in paul's stranglehold on the house i've been waiting for, hopefully things will continue to heat up going forward!

it appears the next temptation twist is in the form of "apple trees" in the house, tempting the hg's with eliminating eviction votes, a second veto, saving a friend, preventing another hg from playing the next hoh, etc., no word on the consequences.

xmas, paul, & josh were in the hoh room, and xmas thinks she sees a "rat" (mouse?) in the kitchen cabinets, then running under the stove. paul & josh go to investigate, there are packages of food sitting all over the counters, some open (and previous seasons thought the ants were bad!).


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

guess who has safety this week? you get 3 chances, and the first 2 don't count...


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> guess who has safety this week? you get 3 chances, and the first 2 don't count...


Putting it in spoilers so I don't ruin NorthAlabama's little game, which let's face it, it's more interesting that this season's BB.



Spoiler



This season is full of idiots. I can't believe Mark gave safety to Paul.



EDIT: Fixed typo.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Terrorists cannot be appeased.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

today's pov comp players will be xmas, jason, matt, paul, raven, & mark (oops!). raven wanted to host, but is playing instead, xmas knew this and picked raven anyway, some of the other hg's are wondering why (more cracks!).


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Jason won the veto so there's no chance for Mark.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> Jason won the veto so there's no chance for Mark.


yes, mark's toast (kevin better watch his back) - it was the "slip-'n-slide, fill the container" physical comp we usually see for hoh

xmas had a talk with kevin, warned him not to discuss veto plans with anyone (in an extremely condescending tone)

xmas chose mark for havenots, josh volunteered (i would not want to be in the havenot room with them)

another rat sighting, bb gave them plastic containers for the opened food

zingbot made an appearance in the house (said something about matt & raven doing nothing in the game besides each other  )

alex is no longer a campfire girl, jason shed his xtreme-i-tard

raven's latest and newest ailment is arthritis (see below)

another predictable week for paul's xmas's hoh


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> yes, mark's toast (kevin better watch his back) - it was the "slip-'n-slide, fill the container" physical comp we usually see for hoh
> <snip>
> raven's latest and newest ailment is arthritis (see below)


They came in from the comp and immediately began jamming ham in their mouths like they hadn't eaten in days. Raven too...she kept trying to talk about her arthritis but nobody seemed to care and more or less shut her down. Everybody was pretty sore and popping whatever OTC meds they could. There was also something in the comp (or perhaps another event if I misunderstood the context) involving current events one of which was the possibility of Trump's election being rigged. I know they've done comps and spots with Julie in the past where they were given various headlines to guess about. Should be interesting to see which other news events they were cued in to.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bb has been doing his best to wake the hg's this morning for the eclipse, with limited success.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bb has handed out eclipse viewing glasses to all the hg's, now they're all outside watching the eclipse.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

josh passed out while watching the eclipse, mark was inside sleeping, no signs of mark campaigning before the veto ceremony (now in progress).

jason & kevin were talking outside, jason was xmas bashing, jason said xmas upset him because she was insisting on chit-chat when bb first woke them up early, he wasn't in the mood, and she didn't get the hint from his upset stare (more cracks?). mild raven bashing about her being sick and in bed all the time, how they think the house is too scared to evict her due to her illness(es), and how lost she'll be once matt goes to jury.

xmas, matt, & raven in the hoh, mild mark & kevin bashing.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov ceremony over, Jason used the veto on himself, mark is the renom (as expected) sitting next to matt.

i'm wondering if mark would rather be evicted and sent to share time with elena in the jury house, rather than continue to play?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there was an inside lockdown earlier, some skywriting in the area, probably not game related, but bb wanted to err on the side of caution. later the hg's wondered if something big was going on in the news like war or impeachment (zingbot made trump jokes)

paul has been cam talking, and now see's his best f3 as xmas & josh, because jason & alex are too strong, but, as always, will keep all options open (confirms jason is a target)

xmas & josh were also talking about a f3 with paul, xmas said she'd let the guys battle it out (with the winner taking her to f2)

matt & raven had different ideas, they wanted josh gone (throwing a wrench in xmas & paul's f3 plans), with raven wondering why no one's targeted paul (you too?), but after talking with xmas today, they've all agreed jason & alex need to be split up (for now, anyways)

xmas is waiting for her cast to be removed and replaced with a boot (any day now), she's thinking she'll be able to compete in upcoming physical or endurance comps


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I'd be fine with Xmas being given the boot.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

series5orpremier said:


> I'd be fine with Xmas being given the boot.




after a little cam talking from the apple room this morning - about having the hoh tossed to her, how smoothly her and paul's hoh plans went, her f3 deal, how cold cody's personality is, how wonderful her personality is, how she wants jason gone after mark, but not her kindred spirit alex (better call paul on that one) - xmas is off to the doctor to have the cast removed and replaced (maybe the doctor could install some brains and a likeable personality while she's there?).


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

xmas had pins removed, has a new air-pump walking cast/boot, is still using crutches

alex has a sore throat

seeds of dissent being sown throughout the house - alex wants to confront mark (that dead horse has been beat to a pulp) - alex thinks xmas needs to go sooner rather than later due to xmas's hoh-itis – matt & raven want to break up jason & kevin - alex, xmas, jason, & kevin were raven bashing, comparing notes on her illnesses, and what she does that seems to contradict what she’s saying


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> xmas had pins removed, has a new air-pump walking cast/boot, is still using crutches


Dang, that is probably really painful. I had pin/plates removed from my fibula and ankle. Removing them was far worse than having them installed. I know Terrell Owens had a similar procedure to mine and still played in a Superbowl a few months later but it took me well over a year to walk normal. Of course he was an elite athlete and Christmas is also well built but still. . .


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

rahnbo said:


> Dang, that is probably really painful. I had pin/plates removed from my fibula and ankle. Removing them was far worse than having them installed. I know Terrell Owens had a similar procedure to mine and still played in a Superbowl a few months later but it took me well over a year to walk normal. Of course he was an elite athlete and Christmas is also well built but still. . .


with her new boot, i can't see her continuing to use crutches unless she was still in quite a bit of pain, so that makes sense.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> with her new boot, i can't see her continuing to use crutches unless she was still in quite a bit of pain, so that makes sense.


She still has to use the scooter for 2 more weeks.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> with her new boot, i can't see her continuing to use crutches unless she was still in quite a bit of pain, so that makes sense.


Right, once they boot you they don't want you walking in crutches. There is sort of a transition period from the blissful protection of the cast to going it with minor protection such as a boot or a brace. You have to sort of power through the pain to build back lost muscle mass and bone density. It can be done but I definitely wouldn't want to do it in front of national TV.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Since it's in between veto and eviction, I figured it was safe to come here as far as spoilers go (as I don't have live feed). So it sound like the infighting is between all houseguests besides Paul. And it sounds like only Raven even talked about Paul not being targeted a little. I still suspect, that from this point on, Paul will see who wins HoH, and whisper sweet nothings into the HoH's ear to get the other couple out. I suspected that Christmas' plan was to get her Paul and Josh to the end. Alex thinks SHE'S going to the end with Paul. I'm sure Matt and Raven have some thought about THEM going to the end with Paul. Paul's best move is just to let it all happen.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Christmas and Josh are Paul's ideal final 3. He's said it when speaking to the cameras alone. Jason/Alex & Matt/Raven both think they have a final 5 with those 3. Paul's sitting pretty in the middle and shouldn't need to win HOH for the next few weeks.

Paul's current preference for eviction order is Jason, Matt, Alex, Kevin, Raven.


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Are comments from the DR a bit different this year? It seems like there is a one hell of a lot of "recapping" being done by the HGs, especially Paul. Each show he is provides "_Here is what's going on..._" explaination. Its not just Paul, but he seems to get a lot of DR time. Not suggesting its bad, I am not recalling HGs doing that in previous seasons, or not as much.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nrnoble said:


> Are comments from the DR a bit different this year? It seems like there is a one hell of a lot of "recapping" being done by the HGs, especially Paul. Each show he is provides "_Here is what's going on..._" explaination. Its not just Paul, but he seems to get a lot of DR time. Not suggesting its bad, I am not recalling HGs doing that in previous seasons, or not as much.


i haven't noticed, but to be completely candid, i'll admit to not paying close attention.

what's very obvious to me is the lack of raven dr sessions - as of last week, she'd been called to the dr fewer times than jillian, and jillian was evicted week 1.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i almost forgot to post this - tonight's hoh endurance comp will be available on the live feeds following tonight's live eviction episode, 10pm/9c (on the west coast, too):


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

nrnoble said:


> Are comments from the DR a bit different this year? It seems like there is a one hell of a lot of "recapping" being done by the HGs, especially Paul. Each show he is provides "_Here is what's going on..._" explaination. Its not just Paul, but he seems to get a lot of DR time. Not suggesting its bad, I am not recalling HGs doing that in previous seasons, or not as much.


I'd say it is about the same. There is sort of an ebb and flow each season. I recall Dan and Derrick getting much more time during their seasons. Rachel certainly got too much. From what I've seen on BBAD they get about the same time but when it comes down to what makes it to air certain people do get more time. I can just imagine being a producer having to interview dead eyes Cody. Must have been scary even on the other side of the glass.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Jason is new HoH


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Squeak said:


> Jason is new HoH


Really stepping up now.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

bryhamm said:


> Really stepping up now.


Yes, but means he is probably the primary target next week when he can't compete for HoH, and would be one of the last opportunities to truly backdoor him.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

I don't actually like that, as I semi-like Jason. But, I agree with the above. 
He needs to send Paul packing! Put up Matt and Raven, then get rid of Paul. Jason could work with Christmas and Kevin. 
Oh, get rid of Josh. Please, won't someone just get rid of Josh!


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

The tree's lit up, but no ones taking an apple this week. Paul told them not to. But really the prizes aren't really that tempting compared to the punishments.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Why, oh why, are these people such sheep? GET RID OF PAUL YOU IDIOTS!!!
Omg.
I can't even.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> Why, oh why, are these people such sheep? GET RID OF PAUL YOU IDIOTS!!!
> Omg.
> I can't even.


Paul will instruct the jury to vote for him. He has shown to be the puppet master this season.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

we're down to the final 8, there are 4 weeks left, and the last week is f3 - somebody better wake up fast.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Matt and Raven put up. Matt claims he will use veto on Raven if he wins it.

"I'm not freaking Mark or Cody. Not throwing my girl under the bus".


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

brianric said:


> Paul will instruct the jury to vote for him. He has shown to be the puppet master this season.


I don't think you can be called a puppet master when you are dealing with dim witted star struck idiots.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pov comp players: jason, raven, matt, kevin, josh, & paul – xmas is hosting

(matt has promised to use the pov on raven if he wins, and not throw his lady under the bus like cody & mark)


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

What an idiot. He's handsome. And it seems to stop there. 

Sure! He probably wouldn't win the whole shebang... but don't just give it away and stay on the block. Ugh! These people!


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it appears these hg’s haven’t impacted viewership, last week bb19 took 3 of the top 5 spots in adults 18-49, and 3 of the top 6 in total viewers, winning its time slot each airing on all but 2 wednesday nights all season (the last friday night special finished 8 & 15 respectively).

the pov comp has been underway about 3 hours...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jason won pov - the comp was each hg hides an item in the house, then they take turns tossing the house to find the hidden items.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Paul (along with several of his minions) was pushing hard for Jason to use the veto and nominate Kevin. Jason stood his ground and is leaving the nominations the same.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> Paul (along with several of his minions) was pushing hard for Jason to use the veto and nominate Kevin. Jason stood his ground and is leaving the nominations the same.


well, the day is still young, but i've been proud of jason standing his ground (so far), alex may have pushed a little _too_ hard, jason wasn't in a good mood yesterday.

a lot of talk about sending raven to jury, and while i'd like to see it, i don't believe it's happening.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

realityboy said:


> Paul (along with several of his minions) was pushing hard for Jason to use the veto and nominate Kevin. Jason stood his ground and is leaving the nominations the same.


Bye Jason. That will make you
Next. Season is so boring and Paul's group picks off people one by one


----------



## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

brianric said:


> Paul will instruct the jury to vote for him. He has shown to be the puppet master this season.


If they let Paul get to final 2 they deserve to lose to him. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever is against Paul in final 2 says Paul should win.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

havenots are the first 2 down in the "everyone's a wiener" hoh comp - matt & kevin

alex took a bite of raven's banana bread, and pulled a clump of hair out of her mouth...when raven left the room, alex spit out what she was eating

josh is after kevin to give back his hoh slippers (to irritate kevin), jason told josh to just take his instead

josh says kevin hasn't won anything in 60 days, kevin should put the slippers back where he found them

alex chimes in, says don't give kevin anything if you win hoh

paul tells jason to blame kevin for not using the veto and leaving raven on the block so raven will be upset with kevin



these hg's are the biggest jerks & idiots ever cast in a single season of bb...


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Eww I gag just thinking about it. If even a little stringy cheese seems like hair I'm done. I wonder if it was Raven's real hair or part of her extensions? I just grossed myself out. Guess I'm skipping dinner.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto ceremony is over - jason didn't use the veto (good for him for sticking to his plan!) - matt & raven remain on the block

in jason's speech he mentioned something about doing what the house wanted, then, after the ceremony....boom! matt & raven are *not* happy, they are yelling at jason, then raven's crying, then they are yelling again, name calling, bringing up past votes, jason tried hiding in the storage room


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Good for him! Someone needs to play their own game in there. I hope he wins Veto next week, too!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

another fight/heated argument in the house...

kevin & josh got into a heated exchange – who won the $25k, josh called kevin a liar and asked him to swear on his kids, kevin dared josh to talk about his family again, then kevin picked up a glass as if he was going to throw it a josh...and...feeds cut

one hour later, feeds back, raven & matt vs jason (again), josh vs kevin, xmas vs kevin, raven vs kevin, alex making nasty comments about kevin, paul watching it all unfold, production evidently asked josh & kevin to stay separated

later, kevin, jason, & paul at the pool talking about the heated exchanges being on the feeds, matt getting sun next to them


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Oh you missed the beginning of that argument: Kevin asked Xmas if she was going to go swimming (meaning sit by the pool) and she took great offence to it and started going off on him and Josh jumped in (woof woof) to help her.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeak said:


> Oh you missed the beginning of that argument: Kevin asked Xmas if she was going to go swimming (meaning sit by the pool) and she took great offence to it and started going off on him and Josh jumped in (woof woof) to help her.


doesn't surprise me xmas was involved, paul sicced josh on kevin for next weeks target (good dog!).


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Matt has a penalty vote for breaking Have Not rules. He's eating regular food, taking hot showers, and sleeping in a regular bed with Raven.


----------



## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

None of these people are my favorite. Kevin seems to be a decent human though, unlike some of the others. Jason at least had some balls this week to stick to his plan. Jason may be decent too. Paul probably deserves to win since he's controlling every single person in the house. Alex is a complete b word. I used to like her, but she just turned nasty.

Why don't they like Kevin? Because Alex thinks he's a cop? She's telling people he's lying about everything - and yet, the only thing he's lied about is the $25K. 

Grrr.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

dthmj said:


> None of these people are my favorite. Kevin seems to be a decent human though, unlike some of the others. Jason at least had some balls this week to stick to his plan. Jason may be decent too. Paul probably deserves to win since he's controlling every single person in the house. Alex is a complete b word. I used to like her, but she just turned nasty.
> 
> Why don't they like Kevin? Because Alex thinks he's a cop? She's telling people he's lying about everything - and yet, the only thing he's lied about is the $25K.
> 
> Grrr.


I'm not watching the live feed, but I figure it's safe to read on Wednesdays between Veto and live vote. I agree about Kevin being likable but has done nothing to win the game. Matt and Raven getting mad over this? Really! Matt, stop "volunteering" to be the pawn because eventually it's going to come back to bite you. Raven, have you done ANYTHING in this game to warrant you staying? If you did, I'd sure like to hear about it. Alex, boohoo, your plan didn't work, get over it. Is there a point to scare a potential vote for you down the line except to be a bully? Christmas, just seems extremely stuck up to me. Her attitude just sucks to everyone. Josh is her perfect foil that helps keep her "hands clean". And he just needs to shut up, because when HE was HoH, he didn't play his own game either. He just did the bidding of the house. And of course Paul sits and watches them turn on each other. That's his plan all along. These player might just be idiots, but I'll give Paul credit in knowing this and playing it perfectly. Again, I can't stand the guy, but if he doesn't win, at this point then, then it's a travesty.

I still think giving him those first 4 weeks of immunity enabled him to get a feel for his competition and build up trust and alliances he probably wouldn't have gotten had he been able to be voted out.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I still think giving him those first 4 weeks of immunity


Hey! Don't got spreading that Fake News in here as well!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Squeak said:


> Hey! Don't got spreading that Fake News in here as well!


Hah! Your Fake News is my Truth!
Speaking of which, does CBS ever publish the tally of these votes? I'd be interested to see by how much Paul won that vote.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

dthmj said:


> None of these people are my favorite. Kevin seems to be a decent human though, unlike some of the others. Jason at least had some balls this week to stick to his plan. Jason may be decent too. Paul probably deserves to win since he's controlling every single person in the house. Alex is a complete b word. I used to like her, but she just turned nasty.
> 
> Why don't they like Kevin? Because Alex thinks he's a cop? She's telling people he's lying about everything - and yet, the only thing he's lied about is the $25K.
> 
> Grrr.


Jason is not a decent human being. If you heard some of the things he was saying about Kevin's wife, you wouldn't think so, either. Pretty disgusting stuff. Alex laughed right along. This is the most vile group of people every assembled on this show. When they get out, they are in for a huge shock.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Squeak said:


> Hey! Don't got spreading that Fake News in here as well!





Steveknj said:


> Hah! Your Fake News is my Truth!
> Speaking of which, does CBS ever publish the tally of these votes? I'd be interested to see by how much Paul won that vote.


I think he meant he only had 3 weeks, not 4

tta


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

tivotvaddict said:


> I think he meant he only had 3 weeks, not 4
> 
> tta


Nah, I was giving him grief saying the producers gave Paul immunity vs America.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Squeak said:


> Nah, I was giving him grief saying the producers gave Paul immunity vs America.


 I stand corrected 

tta


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

HOH was Ready, Set, Whoa! And everyone threw it to Christmas. 

As of now, it looks likes she's going to feed Jason/Alex the same lie that they told Matt/Raven last week that they're going up, but Kevin's the real target.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Jason is not a decent human being. If you heard some of the things he was saying about Kevin's wife, you wouldn't think so, either. Pretty disgusting stuff. Alex laughed right along. This is the most vile group of people every assembled on this show. When they get out, they are in for a huge shock.


Even worse the the year of the racists (BB15 I think)? One of them was a train conductor or something another was a blonde woman nicknamed Aryan or something. They weren't the only two IRC either. Was a pretty bad cast.

We haven't watched the live feeds in a couple years but I hated a good chunk of the people in that season (which we DID watch some of the live feeds IRC).


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

jcondon said:


> Even worse the the year of the racists (BB15 I think)? One of them was a train conductor or something another was a blonde woman nicknamed Aryan or something. They weren't the only two IRC either. Was a pretty bad cast.
> 
> We haven't watched the live feeds in a couple years but I hated a good chunk of the people in that season (which we DID watch some of the live feeds IRC).


This group is probably more personally vicious, but they're not racist. I'm not sure how to compare those.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

Steveknj said:


> Hah! Your Fake News is my Truth!
> Speaking of which, does CBS ever publish the tally of these votes? I'd be interested to see by how much Paul won that vote.


They can't cause the vote total is made up!


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Xmas put Jason and Alex up. Will be curious to see if Kevin becomes true target (I don't think he will be).


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

andyw715 said:


> They can't cause the vote total is made up!


Yeah, I don't buy that CBS would risk that.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeak said:


> Yeah, I don't buy that CBS would risk that.


i don't buy that either. while they most always failed to divulge specific numbers, i believe there were maybe one or two exceptions can barely recall, though i could be dreaming. Julie does usually indicate whether the votes were close or a landslide, though, and considering each user is allowed 1 - 10 votes a day, the numbers are artificially larger than the number of participants and aren't really relevant.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto players are xmas, jason, alex, kevin, raven, & paul


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

From hamsterwatch.com:

Josh had a lengthy talk with Christmas, telling her he was tired of Paul "working every single corner" to benefit himself. Christmas argued he'd been doing it for their "team" but Josh pointed out things like Paul wanting a split Alex/Jason vote with Christmas as tiebreaker would only pit Alex against Josh and Christmas, while pulling her closer to Paul; and that either way would benefit Paul rather than themselves for Alex and Jason's jury votes.

I never thought Josh, of all people, would be the one to start waking up to Paul's shenanigans. And more surprised that Christmas is so dumb. I thought she was smarter than that.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul won the pov comp - will probably take alex down, and replace her with kevin (jason sill the target of the moment) - it was a q & a comp.

paul’s plan is for raven to win the next hoh with targets being kevin & alex, then josh wins the following hoh targeting the remaining kevin or alex, with paul winning the f4 hoh and automatically advancing to the f3 (still no clues from any hg about this thursday's de).

eta: alex & jason have been told they're safe this week and kevin is the target, paul has instructed kevin to keep quiet, and while alex still believes she, jason, & paul are going to f3 (  ), jason is nervous (and rightly so). with jason gone, so is any possibility for him to team with kevin against paul. if needed, xmas will break a tie to send jason to jury, and paul is still left with no blood on his hands, in better shape for jury votes.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> (still no clues from any hg about this thursday's de).


Their egos must be allowing them to assume America wants to see them Sept. 27 during premier week . I can't even stand to see them now and for the next 2.5 weeks. Unfortunately the newbies will be so disoriented by double eviction week it once again won't cross any of their minds to put Paul on the block or vote him out.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

have nots are over for this season

the tree of temptation is gone

xmas, paul, & alex raven bashing, listing her illnesses

paul & josh discuss eviction order – jason this week, then alex, raven, & kevin

xmas & josh argue, he walks away while she’s talking, xmas yells a josh for disrespecting her

josh, talking to himself, realizes a de is coming up, and paul is protecting his positions in the house (ding! ding! ding! - if only xmas would listen to josh)

more raven bashing & illness listing with paul, jason, alex, & kevin


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> josh, talking to himself, realizes a de is coming up, and paul is protecting his positions in the house (ding! ding! ding! - if only xmas would listen to josh)


Not to go conspiracy theory on you guys, but Josh's sudden awakening seems fishy to me. Could diary be feeding him lines/questions so that these last few weeks are more interesting?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i've long suspected the dr asked leading questions based on comments made by multiple hg's over the seasons, and when combined with bb's insistence that dr sessions remain private, sure, it's possible. but what impact will it have? i don't think it really matters at this point, xmas is all-in with paul, and by the time alex & raven realize they're roadkill once jason's gone, it'll be too late. too much would have to happen at this point for the house to shift strategy after the veto meeting and before thursday. that, and no one really listens to josh.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto meeting, paul used the veto on alex, xmas put up kevin as the replacement nom


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Bye bye Jason.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

side note: it appears xmas will start putting pressure on her foot tomorrow, beginning with walking on the heel of her walking cast.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Just reading through here as I do between veto and live eviction. For Paul, I think the most dangerous player for him to take to the end is Christmas, and I say that ONLY because she MIGHT get some votes because of her injury and what she had to deal with in the house with it. So, why would Paul not be trying to angle to get her out? If I was Paul, it's the perfect time to team up Raven and Alex to go after the last "power couple" left. Do that, keep the blood off his hands and he's got the game won. I don't see any of the remaining players even remotely having a shot to beat him going into the finals. Kevin and Raven don't win comps. Josh could win a comp and MAYBE he could take out Paul. Alex still thinks she has the final two set with Paul. She's likely not going to defect. But, Josh realizing what might be going out, could make him an even bigger target.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

*xmas finally admitted to the live feeds late last night that josh is right about paul stacking votes in the jury*

jason is still tonight's first target, josh will tell him just before tonight's live show (so, no blindside)

alex should go right behind him in the de, unless she wins hoh or veto, then it would be raven (if all goes according to plans)

kevin still believes he's a gonner since he was the renom, the look on his face should be interesting once the votes are announced


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Man, Xmas is slow on the uptake. So now, what does she do about it?

I figured that there would be contingencies in place for a double eviction. They usually prepare for the possibility.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hefe said:


> Man, Xmas is slow on the uptake. So now, what does she do about it?


my guess? not a thing, she's made her plans, and doesn't seem willing to change course.


> I figured that there would be contingencies in place for a double eviction. They usually prepare for the possibility.


paul has.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

now josh is debating whether or not to tell jason about the vote, josh asks xmas & paul, they both tell him to do what he feels is best


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And Josh won HOH. Likely, everyone threw it to him since Alex couldn't compete anyway.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

This should be an easy decision. You put up Paul and Alex. Everyone plays veto anyway. You're assured that you can take one of them out.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hefe said:


> This should be an easy decision. You put up Paul and Alex. Everyone plays veto anyway. You're assured that you can take one of them out.


alex is already the target, with kevin as a backup plan - i really can't see paul going on the block (at least not voluntarily) - if josh were brave enough to do it, that one move might win him the grand prize on finale night if he makes f2

alex has already told paul that he's her bestie, the only one she trusts in the house, in case anyone was wondering about fallout from jason's eviction


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> alex is already the target, with kevin as a backup plan - i really can't see paul going on the block (at least not voluntarily) - if josh were brave enough to do it, that one move might win him the grand prize on finale night if he makes f2


Well, that's infuriating if he doesn't go after Paul. Paul was despicable after the eviction. He was calling out Josh in front of Alex as if he had nothing to do with it, and then he was pushing Josh on "so if I was on the block you would have voted me out?" as if he's a victim, and then when Alex won the HOH for the double eviction, Paul runs out and cheers and is the first to hug Alex as if they're teammates. If Josh and Christmas don't go after Paul with every chance, they are even dumber than I thought. I don't know why they think he's safe to ride with.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hefe said:


> Well, that's infuriating if he doesn't go after Paul. Paul was despicable after the eviction. He was calling out Josh in front of Alex as if he had nothing to do with it, and then he was pushing Josh on "so if I was on the block you would have voted me out?" as if he's a victim, and then when Alex won the HOH for the double eviction, Paul runs out and cheers and is the first to hug Alex as if they're teammates. If Josh and Christmas don't go after Paul with every chance, they are even dumber than I thought. I don't know why they think he's safe to ride with.


the fight was fake, planned for alex, to give the illusion paul and josh aren't working together.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> the fight was fake, planned for alex, to give the illusion paul and josh aren't working together.


Yes, but it blatantly serves Paul and not Josh and Christmas. Josh shouldn't be putting up with that. All it does is turn Alex's sights from Paul to them.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> Yes, but it blatantly serves Paul and not Josh and Christmas. Josh shouldn't be putting up with that. All it does is turn Alex's sights from Paul to them.


That is what is so infuriating about this season. Everyone is doing Paul's bidding, even if it hurts their game. Josh had the perfect opportunity to blow up Paul's game. He could have saved Jason and then exposed Paul to Jason and Alex. Yet, he took the heat for Jason eviction and made Paul look like a hero to Alex. Guess what, Alex likes Paul and will likely be a friend of him in the jury house (which she will likely see very soon.)

Hopefully Jason now realizes how he was played and exposes Paul's game to the Jury.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TriBruin said:


> That is what is so infuriating about this season. Everyone is doing Paul's bidding, even if it hurts their game. Josh had the perfect opportunity to blow up Paul's game. He could have saved Jason and then exposed Paul to Jason and Alex. Yet, he took the heat for Jason eviction and made Paul look like a hero to Alex. Guess what, Alex likes Paul and will likely be a friend of him in the jury house (which she will likely see very soon.)
> 
> Hopefully Jason now realizes how he was played and exposes Paul's game to the Jury.


At this point, Josh has nothing to gain by keeping Paul's secret. He should let it "slip" to Alex that they are in cahoots. It helps Josh if Paul is a target for Alex.

I found it funny in the video messages for Jason that Josh spilled the beans on Paul, and in the next message, Paul is delivering a "I don't know what happened, they're a bunch of counterfeits" message. I can't see how Paul keeps his alliances secret to the jury. They will talk.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul confirmed his plans to the feeds for noms and veto, he's looking for a rationalization for not using the veto on alex should he win, and said worst case scenario would be kevin winning veto and xmas going on the block - there it is, paul is expecting josh to nom alex & kevin, and if someone comes down, xmas goes up - no plans for paul to visit the block this week, at least not in his mind.

i'm not so sure josh will be willing to nom xmas, even as a pawn, considering his recent concerns of paul's actions, though when he attempted to tickle xmas earlier today, she slapped josh, so who knows? i guess we'll see...


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I hope just for kicks Paul comes in 2nd again (but I doubt it). He was complaining about that on BBAD. Christmas has been "hugging" all over Paul and Josh this season. Last night Paul and Josh were hugging it out when xmas wasn't around. I'll probably miss the Sunday and Wednesday eps thanks to Irma. Looking forward to updates from here. FYI, Alex was pretty cute in her Revengers outfit.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

rahnbo said:


> I hope just for kicks Paul comes in 2nd again (but I doubt it). He was complaining about that on BBAD. Christmas has been "hugging" all over Paul and Josh this season. Last night Paul and Josh were hugging it out when xmas wasn't around. I'll probably miss the Sunday and Wednesday eps thanks to Irma. Looking forward to updates from here.


oh, man, i hadn't noticed you were in florida, hang on tight and protect yourself the best you can, my thoughts are with you. 

i really don't expect much to happen other than the comps and the taped eviction to air wednesday night since we're down to f5, so no problem keeping you up to date.


> FYI, Alex was pretty cute in her Revengers outfit.


yes, she was!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

alex & kevin are the noms

alex is in tears (something josh said during the ceremony?), josh attempted to comfort her, no success

when xmas & paul try to comfort josh (upset that alex is upset), josh begins to cry, too, saying he feels like a bad person for making these (paul's) game moves

kevin is still the pawn (for now), and alex the target, though kevin might want to try and win the veto comp (or any comp), now is not the time to leave anything to chance, when 1 vote can alter who goes

eta: paul left the apple room where alex was crying, walked up to paul who was crying and being comforted by xmas, and slapped josh on the face - he said alex told him she could cry on demand, and was doing so now purposefully to make josh feel bad


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

tmz has picked up the story of paul slapping josh:

Twitter web player



> *"Big Brother"* has a little bit of everything this season, including assault and battery.
> 
> Check out the live feed, where *Josh Martinez* breaks down after one of his comrades was evicted from the house Thursday.
> 
> ...



when previous hg's have been evicted for violence, why is bb allowing paul to continue in the game?


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

While I'm not one to take domestic battery lightly... err... actually... this is. Alex hit Jason all the time, playfully, and she can't can't actually hurt him. This is different. Way different.

You are living with someone who bullies you, and can physically hurt you. *Doesn't California law REQUIRE Paul be removed from the home for at least a night*? Yeah, that's domestic abuse laws in Cali, AFAIK, but IMNAL.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

The slap didn't seem all that hard to me. Not much harder if any then Alex hitting Jason.

I think Mark throwing pickle juice with Tabasco sauce in it in Josh's face was worse.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

as much as watching and listening to josh can really grate my nerves, and while i can seem him being viewed as a big, lovable lug, *both xmas & paul hit him yesterday*, and bb seems oblivious. i can only deduce it must be josh's size when compared to the other hg's, but still.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

josh has been teasing the live feeds with hints he may actually begin to play bb for himself, instead of playing paul’s game

when he declared to xmas she was part of his f2, her reply was to trip over her tongue while giving josh a non-answer in return - it became clear to josh that xmas was not part of his path to f2, and he already believes the only reason paul would take him to f2 is because paul thinks he could beat josh

josh next reasons the remaining hg’s he can beat - kevin & alex (xmas, too, but he now knows she won’t take him to f2)

he then asks himself if he is ready to betray xmas & paul, and this is where his reasoning breaks down (and why paul will probably win) - the question josh should be asking is how he can win

josh starts thinking about the veto - he doubts alex or xmas would vote to evict paul if paul is on the block, but instead of working on plans to secure a vote to evict paul so josh could break the tie as hoh, he decides to wait and see what happens – his second breakdown in reasoning

josh’s time is almost up, let’s hope he doesn’t wait much longer to decide (which is what paul is probably counting on josh doing)


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul won pov, the comp was bb comics - if paul leaves the noms the same, he will expose his game to alex - i guess he wasn't willing to risk josh making a move against him

paul was potty mouth
jason was whistle-nut & ole
kevin was a merman
xmas was self-described as "murderous"
jessica was hex appeal
josh was meatball
raven had claws
no convo on matt, alex, cody, elena, mark, jillian, or ramses
cameron & dominique had a comic, megan didn't


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

THURDAY DOUBLE EVICTION.

I like josh, but Julie should not have instructed him to run back and hit the button. Raven was right behind him, and may have won if Josh stood there celebrating for a few more seconds.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nrnoble said:


> THURDAY DOUBLE EVICTION.
> 
> I like josh, but Julie should not have instructed him to run back and hit the button. Raven was right behind him, and may have won if Josh stood there celebrating for a few more seconds.


I agree. That would have been sweet if Raven won.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I thought Julie said one eviction Wednesday and one eviction Thursday.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

series5orpremier said:


> I thought Julie said one eviction Wednesday and one eviction Thursday.


i think he was referring to last thursday's show (maybe the better thread for his post), but i agree - i was taken aback when julie cued josh to run back and hit the buzzer, enabling him to win hoh.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul is having his pre-veto meeting convo with alex, trying to prepare her for his not using the veto on her while saving as many jury votes as he can once she's in jury

paul is flattering alex and her game, how she would win in f2, his "commitment" to take her to the end, and how it's kevin's fault, along with josh & xmas for going after raven

alex is looking down, not looking paul in the eye, and telling him repeatedly to "do what he has to do for his game" (she's not buying it), and that she's always wanted him to win, with her 2nd

now he's trying to convince her that jason's eviction wasn't his fault, and how she'll win america's favorite player


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

brianric said:


> I agree. That would have been sweet if Raven won.


If I were Raven, I would have called Julie on it right then. There is 500K on the line, being polite by saying\doing nothing is not the right move at that moment. Raven might have gotten a mini-faceoff with Josh if she had said something, especially on Live TV.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

veto meeting, paul didn't use veto, noms still alex & kevin

alex is teed off at paul for not using the veto, angrily mumbling under her breath (think campfire girl/elena), and has isolated herself to the havenot room

as much as paul would like to blame josh for alex's foul mood, she became the most upset following paul's admission he wasn't using veto, and then later decided to start talking with alex about jury votes (too soon?)

xmas & paul have been trying to keep josh away from alex, he wants to cry with her and keep apologizing, but he's not making it any better (neither is anyone else)

kevin is moping around, he realizes he's probably next


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Does anyone know when each week they have nominations and vetos?

Does it vary, or they very consistent when those things take place? I am guessing both nominations and veto take place before the Sunday show. Normally we know who wins HOH on Thursday night.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nrnoble said:


> Does anyone know when each week they have nominations and vetos?
> 
> Does it vary, or they very consistent when those things take place? I am guessing both nominations and veto take place before the Sunday show. Normally we know who wins HOH on Thursday night.



thursday: live eviction, then hoh comp
friday: nominations
saturday: veto comp
sunday: rest & relax, lazy day
monday: veto ceremony
tuesday: hoh pics & hoh blog
wednesday: plot, backstab, & lie


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> tmz has picked up the story of paul slapping josh:
> 
> Twitter web player
> ​
> when previous hg's have been evicted for violence, why is bb allowing paul to continue in the game?





justen_m said:


> While I'm not one to take domestic battery lightly... err... actually... this is. Alex hit Jason all the time, playfully, and she can't can't actually hurt him. This is different. Way different.
> 
> You are living with someone who bullies you, and can physically hurt you. *Doesn't California law REQUIRE Paul be removed from the home for at least a night*? Yeah, that's domestic abuse laws in Cali, AFAIK, but IMNAL.





NorthAlabama said:


> as much as watching and listening to josh can really grate my nerves, and while i can seem him being viewed as a big, lovable lug, *both xmas & paul hit him yesterday*, and bb seems oblivious. i can only deduce it must be josh's size when compared to the other hg's, but still.


I think we all know the answer. it's been clear since day one of this season.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Indeed, drama is king, and the more of it the better.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

If you want to get technical, I consider Josh's pots and pans and verbal abuse earlier in the season to be much more physically violent than that (meets the legal definition of assault) and Josh should have been thrown out of the house a long time ago.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

series5orpremier said:


> If you want to get technical, I consider Josh's pots and pans and verbal abuse earlier in the season to be much more physically violent than that (meets the legal definition of assault) and Josh should have been evicted from the house a long time ago.


And all those earlier in the season that participated in the butthole poking...how is that not sexual assault? And Mark throwing pickle juice in Josh's face. And the fights that almost started between Mark and Josh and Cody and Josh. And yadda yadda...


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

There are levels of severity that depend on context and level of violence and harmful intent. Josh is by far the worst offender of the season, underscored by him not coincidentally and with intent always being in the middle of the most serious conflicts of the season.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> If you want to get technical, I consider Josh's pots and pans and verbal abuse earlier in the season to be much more physically violent than that (meets the legal definition of assault) and Josh should have been thrown out of the house a long time ago.


This +1000

I could not believe that BB did not throw him out. Although I hated it when Evel Dick banged pots and pans, he was not in anybodies face. Josh was banging the pans right in peoples faces. To me that bordered on assault. If not, would this be considered abuse of equipment? Previous contestant had been removed from abusing their equipment.

Don't forget, Paul was cheerleading the whole thing and encouraging Josh (and telling him, at one point, start banging again.) But, production loves Paul, their golden child. He can do know wrong.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Apparently none of them can do wrong, not just Paul.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

TriBruin said:


> I could not believe that BB did not throw him out. Although I hated it when Evel Dick banged pots and pans, he was not in anybodies face. Josh was banging the pans right in peoples faces. To me that bordered on assault. If not, would this be considered abuse of equipment? Previous contestant had been removed from abusing their equipment.


they used to draw the line at any physical contact - strike someone, instant removal from the game, no questions asked, though i think this was the first "hot sauce in the eyes" incident. the same with willfully damaging the property or electronics, that meant immediate removal from the house, and any repair/replacement costs deducted from the offending hg stipend.

noise? that hasn't been a reason for removal in previous seasons (evil dick), though bb evidently asked josh to stop once mark eventually complained he was about to lose it.

i guess they've decided to take context into account this season...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

big brother network has a gallery of a few of the bb comics posters:

BB Comics: Cody Nickson is The Stare-Crow

the latest online poll i viewed shows cody leading both paul & kevin in popularity, by a margin of more the 2 to 1 over both.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

TriBruin said:


> To me that bordered on assault.


It was assault. Intentional physical contact (via violent sound waves) intended to harass, create emotional distress, and threaten further physical harm.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

series5orpremier said:


> There are levels of severity that depend on context and level of violence and harmful intent.


I agree. And since we know very little what is in Big Brother's black Book of HG rules, we don't know what level of physical contact is permitted or what HGs are expected to do if they feel another HGs has cross a line. Example, sex and sexual contact is clearly permitted, but we can assume that unwanted sexual advances are not tolerated.

to me throwing any food\drink into someone face in anger or as game tactic is an assault. Clearly BB worked out that matter behind the scenes. I am guessing both individuals felt mutually responsible and were OK with how its been resolved. The fact that Josh was crying about Jason eviction suggest they weren't hold grudges over what had happened in the past.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Mark threw the drink not Jason ?


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yes, in a context where he didn't do it out of the blue.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

here's a link to a recent hg contract i've linked before (i'm sure it's been revised since):

Big Brother contract: the legal agreement houseguests sign

and a list of "known" house rules from a fan forum someone put together (believe these at your own risk, but most sound legit):



Spoiler: house rules (spoilerized for length)



Big Brother House Rules

1. There is no direct contact with the outside world.
● Big Brother never discusses anything that has happened in the outside world.
● Big Brother never enters into any negotiations about how certain actions, conversations or events that may have occurred in the house will be shown on the television.
● Housemates are not permitted to make any attempts to communicate personal messages with members of the outside world by means of written messages, symbols or personalised clothing.
● If any objects appear in the garden Housemates must not touch or inspect them unless instructed to do so.
● If people appear in the garden Housemates MUST NOT communicate with them.
● In the event of any of these events occurring Housemates must make their way immediately inside and close the doors, even if not specifically asked to do so.

2. Housemates are filmed 24 hours a day and must wear personal microphones at all times.
● Big Brother will not broadcast images from the toilet on the television or internet unless it is being used for purposes other than those for which it was designed. For example, images of two people talking in the toilet may be broadcast.
● It is strictly against the Rules to interfere for any reason with the camera or sound equipment installed in the House and garden or to do anything which may hinder the working of the equipment in any way.
● It is against the rules to try and locate and/or acknowledge cameras through the mirrors. It is also against the rules to discuss camera positions.
● Nothing must be placed in front of mirrors to impede camera coverage. Housemates are forbidden to move vases and bowls and any other decorative items.
● No furniture can be moved from one part of the house to another.
● Housemates are forbidden to hang towels anywhere in the House except on the heated towel rails in the bathroom.
● It is compulsory to wear a personal microphone at all times except when sleeping, showering or taking part in any activity in which the microphone may be damaged.

FALIURE TO WEAR MICROPHONES WILL RESULT IN FINES.

3. The Diary Room is the only place in the house where Big Brother will acknowledge housemates. Visits to the Diary Room are a vital part of the Big Brother experience and are, therefore, compulsory.
● Housemates are welcome to enter the Diary Room at any time of the day or night.
● The Diary Room is the only place in the House that Big Brother acknowledges what Housemates say.
● Housemates may not wear sunglasses or hats in the Diary Room.
● The Diary Room can only be entered if there is no-one in the room. It is electronically locked at all other times. It will also be locked while Housemates are in the room.
● Big Brother can call individual Housemates to the Diary Room at any time. Housemates must come when called, failure to do so or responding in an offensive manner to Big Brother may result in disqualification and early eviction.
● It is compulsory for Housemates to enter the Diary Room to make their nominations.
● Big Brother is the only person who communicates with the Housemates. On occasion, Big Brother may not answer questions immediately but will always eventually return an answer. Big Brother will not answer personal questions.
● If a Housemate decides to leave voluntarily, they must explain their reasons why in the Diary Room.
● Any questions asked by Big Brother in the Diary Room cannot be divulged to other Housemates.
● Occasionally Housemates may need minor medical treatment. On these occasions professionals will usually treat them in the Diary Room. It is prohibited to try and seek information about the outside world from these professionals.
● If a Housemate is having a consultation with the counsellor or psychologist (either at their request or at the suggestion of Big Brother) then this conversation will be confidential. It will not be recorded and members of the production team will not be able to hear or see the consultation.

4. Each week, Housemates are required to go to the Diary Room and nominate two people for potential eviction.
● Housemates must give frank and honest reasons for their nominations.
● If any Housemate is deemed to be holding back a valid reason for nominating a fellow Housemate, a formal warning may be issued.
● Housemates are not allowed to nominate themselves or any inanimate objects.

5. Housemates are not permitted to discuss nominations with any other Housemates.

This includes:
● Any discussion with another Housemate that could be interpreted as a deliberate attempt to influence their nominations.
● Predicting or guessing who may be nominated or evicted.
● Discussing the reasons Housemates might use for nominating.
● Discussing the type of person Housemates are thinking of nominating.
● Writing down or using materials at Housemates disposal to form names, initials or other symbols. For this reason the use of pens, pencils or any written communication is strictly against the rules.
● Communicating in code or languages other than English and/or devising other methods of communication.

Housemates are, of course, free to talk about how they feel about the other Housemates. Their good and bad points may be discussed with others but NOT as part of a discussion about nominations.

6. Housemates may not intimidate, threaten or act violently towards any other Housemate.

Big Brother has the right to evict Housemates without warning if their behaviour is deemed to warrant it.

7. Housemates may not communicate in code and/or foreign or sign languages.
● Housemates are forbidden to write anything using any material or surface in the House eg steam on glass.
● On the occasion Housemates are provided with a writing implement it is forbidden for this implement to be used for anything other than the express purpose for which it is provided.
● Housemates must speak in English at all times.

8. All tasks, unless otherwise stated, are compulsory.
● The supply of food and other household goods is generally dependant on Housemates' performance in compulsory weekly tasks.
● Succeeding in the task results in a substantial shopping budget, failing the task means Housemates may have to live on "staples". Staple foodstuffs are supplied by Big Brother and provide enough calories and the appropriate balance of nutrients from all the major food groups for each Housemate for the week. Big Brother retains the right to change the rules of any task at any stage.
● In addition to the weekly tasks Big Brother may also set other challenges.
● If a task is deemed compulsory, any Housemate refusing to take part will attract a fine and may be evicted.
● The rules of all tasks are non-negotiable.

9. Housemates may not discuss any previous series of Big Brother. Housemates are forbidden to discuss their plans for the prize money.
● Housemates may not discuss any previous series of Big Brother - either Australian or international - or former Housemates - either Australian or international - with any other Housemate.
● Under no circumstances may any of the Housemates discuss how they intend to spend the prize money should they win it. In particular, any pacts to share or split the prize money between Housemates are against the rules and may result in the prize money being withdrawn altogether.
● Housemates may not discuss any aspect of the audition process or any person they met during the auditions or at any other time during pre-production or in Lockdown.

10. Big Brother reserves the right to change the rules at any time.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

^cf Rule 9- this is from the AUS version, it seems?


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

jcondon said:


> Mark threw the drink not Jason ?


I stand corrected. It was Mark. The matter was resolved without anyone being penalized. I would guess they were warned to drop the issue and not throw food\drink during a confrontation.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

big brother tends to issue warnings before moving to more severe consequences, unless it's a serious offense.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

The house rules seem logical. I suspect is not complete because I can think of some that surely are included. One example

* A house Guest can not falsify another HG's life events that has occurred outside of the BB house.

An example of this would be a lie: "HG X told me that before coming into the BB house he gave a girl a date rape drug and then he and 3 others raped her."

TMZ would pick up on something like that within hours. Lying about what happened in the house is OK, but that even has its limits where someone might use the game tactic of falsely accusing someone of a crime (or breaking the BB rules) within the BB house, and BB would need to step in to clear people falsely accused of forbidden actively that never occurred.

I simply point this out because people can get very creatively if they don't have clear limits what they are allowed to do to win 500K.

I also suspect that during casting they select people who do have reasonable personal limits (morals) on how far they will go to win. I've noticed over the years the HGs are generally decent people. BB producers could easily could find a cast of A-hole HGs that would cut each other throats if they could get away with it.

EDIT: I also remember during the 1st BB's All-Stars, where Dr. Will and Mike Boogie conspired to do crap that forced BB to kill the live feeds every few minutes. BB quickly put an end to whatever they were doing. I suspect that they were warned they would be put on the block together and\or expelled. In short, F**cking with production is now allowed.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the feeds have been blacked out since yesterday morning for the taping of tonight's eviction (feeds should be back up sometime following west coast airing of tonight's show).

here are the rumors:

alex was evicted as planned (tie vote, josh sent alex to jury as hoh)
paul won hoh (the same f4 hoh comp he won last season, btw )
josh & kevin are the noms
while the f4 hoh automatically advances to f3, the real power this week is veto (only three noms to choose from)

if paul wins veto, he might change his mind on keeping josh over kevin (which just might be the smartest move)

i've seen five different popularity polls listing cody as the most popular hg this season, putting him in good shape to win america's favorite player (jessica posted a while back for viewers to vote for cody over her)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Final 4 is always interesting. If a non-HOH wins Veto, they have all the power.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

hefe said:


> Final 4 is always interesting. If a non-HOH wins Veto, they have all the power.


I know it won't happen, but it would be hysterical if Kevin won Veto.


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## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

If only Kevin could win when it really counts...


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## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

I think, based on Alex's exit interview, Paul is not going to win - he made too many enemies in the jury as they are figuring out what he did.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Jstkiddn said:


> I know it won't happen, but it would be hysterical if Kevin won Veto.


ha! that would be hilarious!

kevin's going stir crazy, josh, xmas, & paul were all in the hoh bed sleeping, and kevin was alone downstairs. now, kevin's reading alone.

paul is working on his f2 pitch - 8 wins, never on the block, 191 total days in the house - and his plan to take josh to f2.



dthmj said:


> I think, based on Alex's exit interview, Paul is not going to win - he made too many enemies in the jury as they are figuring out what he did.


it would be incredible if paul took josh to f2, and came in second place! that would almost make this season worth it.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I would love to see him take Kevin to final 2 and lose to Kevin. That would be hilarious!!!


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

As of the final 4, IMHO, if Paul makes it to the final 2, he'll win BB. I think those who feel betrayed by him will quickly get over it and vote for him to win. He has not been an A-hole towards anyone, and my assessment of the HGs on the jury is they are not people who hold grudges toward someone they deep down like as a person and can respect as very good BB player.

And, as returning HG from last season, the other HGs will find it slightly harder to vote for him to be runner up two seasons in a row. They all knew he was very good player, so they could have evicted him if they had played a smarter game. Paul could make a valid argument in his speech to the jury that getting to final two back to back, is something very few people could accomplish.

Then again, I could be completely wrong...


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Paul's crocodile tears for the consumption of the TV audience and the jury are pathetic.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul won veto, and based on his discussions with xmas about her being the deciding vote, he doesn't plan to use it, leaving kevin & josh on the block, and kevin going to jury.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I don't understand all of Paul's gameplay. What was the purpose of turning the house against Kevin just to cut him at final 4? Why keep up the charade with Alex after not using veto? These are not good jury moves. Is he just overlooking that part? After last year, he should've learned. I think he still likely wins, but he's making it much closer that it should be considering he basically controlled everything that happened.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

nrnoble said:


> He has not been an A-hole towards anyone,


Well, he has, but I think he'll still win if he makes it.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

realityboy said:


> I don't understand all of Paul's gameplay. What was the purpose of turning the house against Kevin just to cut him at final 4? Why keep up the charade with Alex after not using veto? These are not good jury moves. Is he just overlooking that part? After last year, he should've learned. I think he still likely wins, but he's making it much closer that it should be considering he basically controlled everything that happened.


i completely agree, and can only attribute his behavior to arrogance, overconfidence, lack of self-awareness, and his inability to judge how others react to his behavior (example: allowing josh observe his immediate transition from tears to smiles).

it's what earned him second place last year, and what may do the same this year, but when you factor in the season-long behavior of the jury members, who knows?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i completely agree, and can only attribute his behavior to arrogance, overconfidence, lack of self-awareness, and his inability to judge how others react to his behavior (example: allowing josh observe his immediate transition from tears to smiles).
> 
> it's what earned him second place last year, and what may do the same this year, but when you factor in the season-long behavior of the jury members, who knows?


Exactly this. Is this jury going to realize that Paul played the best game and not take anything personally or be bitter. My first thought was these people would realize how much Paul played them and throw a vote his way, but, one of the problems he's facing is that some of his closest allies in the house are the ones he's recently backstabbed. Alex, and now Kevin, and Raven and Matt before that. That's four votes potentially against him. On the other hand, he could play it that Christmas or Josh were in on it at the beginning and that they were all strategizing together (which we know isn't true) and then it becomes who the jury either likes better or played the best game. As I said, I get the feeling that Cody, Mark and Elena, having A) been out of the house the longest and therefore had more time to think about the game and B) have no love lost for Christmas or Josh either may wind up voting Paul and would just have to swing a couple of votes towards Paul. The season has pretty much stunk, but at least the jury vote could be more interesting than first thought.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

The house was stupid enough to let Paul control everything during the game, I don't see why they wouldn't let him have the win. 

I find it tough to believe that any of the remaining players can beat him in the final HOH. This is his to lose now.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> The house was stupid enough to let Paul control everything during the game, I don't see why they wouldn't let him have the win.
> 
> I find it tough to believe that any of the remaining players can beat him in the final HOH. This is his to lose now.


While I agree, you never know what a jury might do and how bitter they are. I always have this argument around Survivor where a player can be a beast at competitions and manipulate the tribe, but have a horrible social game where they become either TOO friendly and have to stab allies in the back or just be an a-hole where they become hated, yet be considered one of the best players. Paul in this case could have done everything right, but in the end, he upset all his allies because of the promises he couldn't keep, and that could keep him from winning. So, really his game play is lacking because he got people to trust him TOO much and in the end, they felt betrayed and don't want to give him the money. We'll see if Paul took any of this into account. You know he tried to get blood on everyone else's hands, but do they see through him? Some of the moves he made late in the game can end up biting him in the butt. Having Josh cast the tie breaker to get Alex out could be one of those things that could bite him in the butt.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

All he has to do is tell them and they'll do it like he did the rest of the season. Seriously Xmas and Josh let him play like he was upset that they voted out Jason to get sympathy from Alex all the while smeering blood all over them.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

There is still a reasonable chance Paul won't make it to the final two. I think Josh could flip on him if Josh ends up with being the HG who makes the final choice to evict. Josh is extremely likely to take christmas to the final two if he is in that position.

If Paul is in the final two, it really comes down to if the jury thinks Paul played a very very slimy game. I think Paul will effectively argue that he had each person's back, until the time when he had to make a difficult choice to evict his allies one by one. This is a game, and it extremely hard for someone to win without cutting loose someone who trusted them.

There is too much a HG can't control in the game of BB, and each HG's #1 priority is not to be evicted, second priority is to play the best game they can to get enough votes to win. One example, Kevin has played well enough to keep him in the game, but not good enough to win against any of the remaining HGs.

If the jury get the sense that paul is lying to them when they ask questions or during his jury statement, that will cost him the game.


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## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

Paul will either get all the votes - or lose horribly.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Paul is such a phony he makes my skin crawl. Do not want him to win.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I think Paul lying in the goodbye messages to the houseguests is a bad idea. For one, the other messages have contradicted his and makes him look bad. Also, the jurors are much more likely to discuss how things went and it was sure to come out.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Can't believe Raven and Matt honestly believing they were puppet masters. I've never seen so many clueless contestants in a Big Brother series.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

DancnDude said:


> I think Paul lying in the goodbye messages to the houseguests is a bad idea. For one, the other messages have contradicted his and makes him look bad. Also, the jurors are much more likely to discuss how things went and it was sure to come out.


i laughed when josh spilled his & xmas's alliance with paul in his goodbye message, i wonder if kevin will think to reveal it openly to the jury?


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

brianric said:


> Can't believe Raven and Matt honestly believing they were puppet masters. I've never seen so many clueless contestants in a Big Brother series.


It was Raven only. She's delusional.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I loved this moment:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/907036030771122177


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Paul is annoying as hell, but it would be a real shame if he doesn't make it to the final two. After all the manipulating he's done, it would suck to be denied the payoff of seeing how the jury ultimately reacts to his game.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Was dumb for Paul to win that last veto. Let either of the other 2 win and he doesn't look bad. For him to tell Kevin that Christmas would beat him in the finals and then NOT use the veto to put her up looks horrible.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Paul has been overly concerned with manipulating situations to force either Josh or Xmas to cast deciding votes. As if bathing them in blood makes him look clean. I don't think the jury could care less. He would have been better off being honest and owning everything he was responsible for so the jury could give him credit for it without thinking he's still jerking them around. He's really over-analyzed everything to the point where he's going to cost himself the game, right down to keeping Josh over Kevin.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bryhamm said:


> Was dumb for Paul to win that last veto. Let either of the other 2 win and he doesn't look bad. For him to tell Kevin that Christmas would beat him in the finals and then NOT use the veto to put her up looks horrible.


once kevin was out, you're right, it was a stupid move.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> I think Paul lying in the goodbye messages to the houseguests is a bad idea. For one, the other messages have contradicted his and makes him look bad. Also, the jurors are much more likely to discuss how things went and it was sure to come out.





NorthAlabama said:


> i laughed when josh spilled his & xmas's alliance with paul in his goodbye message, i wonder if kevin will think to reveal it openly to the jury?


This is one of the (admittedly many) reasons the I don't like Paul. I don't know if it is poor strategy or just an unwillingness to get "blood on his hands", but he needs to own his game play. To say that "Christmas went rogue" was stupid. At this point, he has put himself in to a position of looking like he actually hasn't done much. A good players can own up to game play. I just don't see how that works well with an end game. What is he going to say? "I got to the end because everyone else voted each of you out?" If so, that is a very risky argument. Most juries can respect a players that owns they game play.



gweempose said:


> Paul is annoying as hell, but it would be a real shame if he doesn't make it to the final two. After all the manipulating he's done, it would suck to be denied the payoff of seeing how the jury ultimately reacts to his game.


I would love to see the jury roast Paul. But, more than that, I would love to see him eliminated at the final 3. Imaging Josh winning HOH and turning to Paul. "Paul, this whole game, you have made me and Christmas be the bad guy. Now it is our chance to evict one more person. Good-Bye!"



series5orpremier said:


> Paul has been overly concerned with manipulating situations to force either Josh or Xmas to cast deciding votes. As if bathing them in blood makes him look clean. I don't think the jury could care less. He would have been better off being honest and owning everything he was responsible for so the jury could give him credit for it without thinking he's still jerking them around. He's really over-analyzed everything to the point where he's going to cost himself the game, right down to keeping Josh over Kevin.


Agreed. And this is why Paul may lose again. To his advantage, the jury knows he is the mastermind. But, if I was a jury member, I would actually hold his inability to own his game against him. I would be more willing to give Josh or Christmas the win right now. At least they were both forced to public evict another HG. In many cases Paul has manipulated the votes to NOT vote for the evicted HG. How well does that work?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

TriBruin said:


> I would love to see the jury roast Paul. But, more than that, I would love to see him eliminated at the final 3. Imaging Josh winning HOH and turning to Paul. "Paul, this whole game, you have made me and Christmas be the bad guy. Now it is our chance to evict one more person. Good-Bye!"


either of these would redeem the season.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> This is one of the (admittedly many) reasons the I don't like Paul. I don't know if it is poor strategy or just an unwillingness to get "blood on his hands", but he needs to own his game play. To say that "Christmas went rogue" was stupid. At this point, he has put himself in to a position of looking like he actually hasn't done much. A good players can own up to game play. I just don't see how that works well with an end game. What is he going to say? "I got to the end because everyone else voted each of you out?" If so, that is a very risky argument. Most juries can respect a players that owns they game play.
> 
> I would love to see the jury roast Paul. But, more than that, I would love to see him eliminated at the final 3. Imaging Josh winning HOH and turning to Paul. "Paul, this whole game, you have made me and Christmas be the bad guy. Now it is our chance to evict one more person. Good-Bye!"
> 
> Agreed. And this is why Paul may lose again. To his advantage, the jury knows he is the mastermind. But, if I was a jury member, I would actually hold his inability to own his game against him. I would be more willing to give Josh or Christmas the win right now. At least they were both forced to public evict another HG. In many cases Paul has manipulated the votes to NOT vote for the evicted HG. How well does that work?


Do they know he's been the mastermind? From what we've seen of the jury (and last night's was very interesting), I get the feeling that Kevin is not bitter, he realizes that Paul's playing the game. Jason and Alex appeared to be putting the blame on Paul AND Christmas and Josh. Raven thinks she and Matt were working with Paul and that Jason and Alex wanted her out and that's why she was gone. Only Mark, Elena and Cody realize everything that went on. And none of them really want to trust Mark, Elena and Cody, because they don't really like them. So, from what I saw of the jury, I think Paul wins this as long as he doesn't screw it up when the jury grills them.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> either of these would redeem the season.


I keep going back and forth on this. I really don't want Josh or Christmas winning either. Josh was abusive early in the game and I find Christmas to be a stuck up jerk who's about to turn on her biggest ally to bring Paul to the end. She pretty much admitted it to Josh when he asked her if her plan was still to take him to the final two. But yeah, to see Paul finish second again would be fun. Nothing really could redeem this season for me. It was THAT bad.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Only Mark, Elena and Cody realize everything that went on. And none of them really want to trust Mark, Elena and Cody, because they don't really like them. So, from what I saw of the jury, I think Paul wins this as long as he doesn't screw it up when the jury grills them.


I think Jason and Alex have it pretty figured out too. He figured out it wasn't Alex that screwed him over.

Matt isn't nearly as clueless as Raven but not sure if he figured it out too or not.

Really it all comes down (assuming it is Paul and either Josh or Christmas) will people vote against Paul out of anger. Or if they will vote for the one who really played the best game. Dirty or not he really played the best and won enough comps. Certainly more then Christmas. Josh can certainly make the case he won some comps and wasn't just along for the ride.

Not sure who Mark and Cody despise more between Josh and Paul. I don't think Mark or Cody really care for either.

All that said out of the 3 I hope Josh can beat Paul and Christmas.

In years past I think some have voted for the 'wrong' house guest out of spite but by and large I think most vote for who did the most to win.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

a good jury q&a session might bring out repressed anger (or, not).

don't forget to ignore tonight's clip episode...


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> a good jury q&a session might bring out repressed anger (or, not).
> 
> don't forget to ignore tonight's clip episode...


I guess the only reason to watch would be to see the first HoH comp? Are they going to show the whole thing?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> I guess the only reason to watch would be to see the first HoH comp? Are they going to show the whole thing?


i'm thinking the final hoh comp will be shown finale night, and tonight will be fluff - we might see the start of an endurance hoh at the end of the show.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i'm thinking the final hoh comp will be shown finale night, and tonight will be fluff - we might see the start of an endurance hoh at the end of the show.


Yep, tonight will be the "sit around the table drinking champagne and reminisce about the season" episode. As long as they don't show the WHOLE endurance comp, I'll skip.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> a good jury q&a session might bring out repressed anger (or, not).
> 
> don't forget to ignore tonight's clip episode...


If they bring back Dr. Wil to conduct the jury round table, he will likely sway some of the jury members to vote for Paul. Apparently, he has been a big Paul supporter the whole season.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> If they bring back Dr. Wil to conduct the jury round table, he will likely sway some of the jury members to vote for Paul. Apparently, he has been a big Paul supporter the whole season.


Has that been rumored?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Has that been rumored?


he hosted the jury round table last season.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I like to predict Will will ask the jury something like "Raise your hand if you were in an alliance with Paul".


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul won round 1 of the final hoh

josh & xmas will compete in round 2, and that winner will face paul in round 3


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Honestly, I don't like someone like Will hosting because it will lead to his bias. It's better when they discuss among themselves and come to their own conclusion. Will is a Paul supporter and will naturally lead the jury that way.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> I like to predict Will will ask the jury something like "Raise your hand if you were in an alliance with Paul".


This came out last night on the Jury segment of the CBS broadcast. Everyone said they were in an alliance with Paul, except Cody said, I wasn't!


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> This came out last night on the Jury segment of the CBS broadcast. Everyone said they were in an alliance with Paul, except Cody said, I wasn't!


Except clueless Raven didn't believe them


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I think they'll get over their bitterness and Paul wins in a landslide. The only hope is that Josh can win the final HOH. I don't think Christmas has a shot. Then again, isn't the final comp that finish the sentence thing from the jury house that seems really random and not based on previous knowledge?


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hefe said:


> I think they'll get over their bitterness and Paul wins in a landslide. The only hope is that Josh can win the final HOH. I don't think Christmas has a shot. Then again, isn't the final comp that finish the sentence thing from the jury house that seems really random and not based on previous knowledge?


yes, it's usually the final hoh comp, and while it's not based on game knowledge, a thorough understanding of, and close social relationships with, the jurors generally wins.

eta: no comments on the winner of round 1 of the final hoh?


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> yes, it's usually the final hoh comp, and while it's not based on game knowledge, a thorough understanding of, and close social relationships with, the jurors generally wins.
> 
> *eta: no comments on the winner of round 1 of the final hoh?*


I think it's because nobody is surprised. I fully expect Paul to win round 3 as well.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

NorthAlabama said:


> eta: no comments on the winner of round 1 of the final hoh?


Not a surprise. It's usually endurance, Christmas probably couldn't compete, and Josh doesn't do well in endurance comps.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I think it's because nobody is surprised. I fully expect Paul to win round 2 as well.


That would be quite a shocker if he wins Round 2. I would almost accuse him of cheating, but the way this season has gone, Josh and Christmas may just disqualify themselves and give the win to Paul.

(Paul can't play in Round 2. That will be only between Josh and Christmas, with the winner of Round 2 facing off with Paul in Round 3.)


----------



## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

Steveknj said:


> I think it's because nobody is surprised. I fully expect Paul to win round 2 as well.


Of course Paul will "win" HOH part 2 (even though he's not participating) since both of his sheep are competing.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I fixed my post, I meant round 3


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Will is hosting the jury again.

Big Brother Alum Dr. Will Kirby Talks Season 19, Chairing Jury Debate


----------



## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

I think I am done with BB. They keep jumping the shark and running out of new ideas and just starting to rehash everything like Survivor has been doing. Seeing Paul come back pretty much killed this season for me as I think he is so unlikable and fake just a shame people in the game can't see it. How many seasons do they have to keep bringing old people back, let newbies play the game. I don't even want to see Will, could care less really.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I am kind of excited for Celebrity Big Brother...


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Rkkeller said:


> I think I am done with BB. They keep jumping the shark and running out of new ideas and just starting to rehash everything like Survivor has been doing. Seeing Paul come back pretty much killed this season for me as I think he is so unlikable and fake just a shame people in the game can't see it. How many seasons do they have to keep bringing old people back, let newbies play the game. I don't even want to see Will, could care less really.


I don't have a problem, in general, with returning players. For one, it makes it much easier to get invested in the game early. Day 1, you know these people and whether you like them or hate them.

The problem is, unlike Survivor, BB seems to have their own favorites that they want to bring back over and over again, either to play or be part of the game. But, they are often not people want to see again. I don't think that too many people were pining for Paul to come back. Yes, some may have felt he should have won last season, but that is no reason to bring him back the very next season (and give him a huge advantage in the game.)

And I really don't need to see Mr. Pectacular (Jesse) every season. Please just go away!


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

verdugan said:


> It was Raven only. She's delusional.


I liked the r


nyny523 said:


> I am kind of excited for Celebrity Big Brother...


I'm not. Too many new shows to watch and I don't feel like tying up three plus hours a week to watch BB. BB ok in the summer.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> I don't have a problem, in general, with returning players. For one, it makes it much easier to get invested in the game early. Day 1, you know these people and whether you like them or hate them.
> 
> The problem is, unlike Survivor, BB seems to have their own favorites that they want to bring back over and over again, either to play or be part of the game. But, they are often not people want to see again. I don't think that too many people were pining for Paul to come back. Yes, some may have felt he should have won last season, but that is no reason to bring him back the very next season (and give him a huge advantage in the game.)
> 
> And I really don't need to see Mr. Pectacular (Jesse) every season. Please just go away!


Survivor has brought back way more contestants. There have been quite a few seasons of all returnees or half returnees.

Big Brother doesn't bring back nearly as many, and counterintuitively, I think that is the problem. If there were 8 returnees, it wouldn't matter if we didn't like Paul because there would be someone else to like. Off the top of my head, I think there have been 29 players that have played twice and 2 that have played 3 times on BB. And 14 of those were from the original All-Stars.



Spoiler: Spoilered for length-list of returnees



S7-Boogie, Erika, Janelle, Will, Kaysar, Howie, James R., Jase, Diane, Nakomis, Allison, Dani R., Marcellus, & George

S11-Jessie

S13-Dick, Dani D., Jeff, Jordan, Rachel, & Brendan

S14-Dan, Boogie, Janelle, & Britney

S18-Nicole, Frank, Dayvonne, & James H.

OTT-Jason

S19-Paul

Did I leave anyone out?


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I'm sure the "celebrity" version will be much shorter than a regular season. Maybe a month, 6 weeks at most. Just counterprogramming for the Winter Olympics while the normal shows are on break.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

realityboy said:


> I'm sure the "celebrity" version will be much shorter than a regular season. Maybe a month, 6 weeks at most. Just counterprogramming for the Winter Olympics while the normal shows are on break.


But when the Winter Olympics starts I'll have a back log of the normal shows to watch. I'm retired, but I'm a volunteer photographer for a few charities, mainly the American Cancer Society, and sports and event photographer for a local Christian grammar school, and I don't know how people have time to watch so much TV. Outside of news, I'm lucky if I can get two hours in a day of TV watching.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

I think Paul to a huge risk t


realityboy said:


> I'm sure the "celebrity" version will be much shorter than a regular season. Maybe a month, 6 weeks at most. Just counterprogramming for the Winter Olympics while the normal shows are on break.


Yeah, its going to be a condensed version of somekind.

Live feeds? Probably not. Entire season probably will be pre-recorded\edited.
Live show? Very unlikely
How many shows per week? Probably no more than 2. All taped.

Overall more like Survivor where they recorded the entire season in advance, then edit the footage knowing who is the winner, thus making the winner look good\deserving.

I am not a fan of celeberties versions of reality shows (ie Celebrity Apprentice) and\or when they play for a cause. What cause is more deserving, Cancer, Altimers, AIDS, Dreamers, etc.

And, as others have previously stated, they tended to B list or C list celebrities.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nrnoble said:


> Live feeds? Probably not. Entire season probably will be pre-recorded\edited.
> Live show? Very unlikely
> How many shows per week? Probably no more than 2. All taped.


from cbs:



> _The special event-which is in addition to BB's upcoming milestone 20th season in Summer 2018-will feature Julie Chen as host, multiple episodes per week during a concentrated run, the series' signature Head of Household and Power of Veto competitions, and Live Evictions.
> 
> Does that mean more 24/7 live feeds coverage through CBS All Access? You betcha._


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Wonder what they mean my "Concentrated run". I am guessing it means something shorter. If it is shorter, then it suggests fewer celebrity HGs and\or more double evictions. 

The main thing I am glad about is that they are not replacing standard BB with this celebrity edition. 

My suggestions 

Dr Phil, Oprah, Michele Obama, Steve Bannon, Megan Kelly, Micheal Moore, Bill Clinton, Rush Limbaugh, Cher, Penn & Teller, Donald Trump, Clint Eastwood, Joe Scarborough, Bill O'reilly
Sean Spicer, Kellyanne Conway, Putin.


No way:

former child stars
anyone considered to be on Hollywood's B list or lower.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nrnoble said:


> Wonder what they mean my "Concentrated run". I am guessing it means something shorter. If it is shorter, then it suggests fewer celebrity HGs and\or more double evictions.
> 
> The main thing I am glad about is that they are not replacing standard BB with this celebrity edition.
> 
> ...


That would make me watch BB Celebrity version.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I still hate Paul. 
I think I hate Josh even more but I'd rather Josh win just so I can see the look on Paul's face.
I would be deliriously happy if Paul doesn't make it to final 2.

Anyone wanna start a guess on how the jury would vote if Paul is in the final 2?

Raven and Matt seem clueless, especially if Raven thinks she was the puppet master. 
I think they would vote for Paul to win.

Cody could go either way - I could see him voting for Paul for out-playing everyone, but that one fight in the HoH room makes me think he would be vindictive and not give him the vote.

I suspect Jason and Alex would NOT for being blindsided.

I'm not sure about Mark, Elena and Kevin.

Or Josh or Xmas if they are the other jury member.

Did I leave anyone out?

I'm slightly annoyed at myself that I actually know all their names


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Cody votes for Paul. Remember how impressed he was with Alex and how he was trying toh elp her to the detrmient of his own game because he loved what a "competitor" she is? He will do the same for Paul as he will respect someone plaing.

Alex votes for Paul. From what I'm hearing they talked before she left and she's back on the Paul bandwagon. Jason might not, but Alex may end up browbeating him into it while she's in the jury house.

Christmas will do anything for Paul.

MAYBE Josh votes for Christmas if Paul takes Christmas to the end, but we know he will take Paul.

tta


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

feeds have been down about 2 4 hours for part 2 of the final hoh comp...


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

josh won round 2 of the final hoh

it took over 6 hours to complete the round, and josh only beat xmas by about 7 minutes

there were 3 rounds within the comp, and josh mentioned he took one hour to complete one of those

it will be josh & paul for round 3 on finale night


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the updates. I've been going through BB withdrawals. I finally got caught up on the aired shows via Hulu on my phone. Still no cable/broadband internet but got a big antenna that can pull in CBS so should be set for the finale.


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

For those who despise paul, and would enjoy seeing him waterboarded, burned to death slowly over many hours, or some other extremely painful demise, only 5 of 17 BB winners have won part 1.

Someone in another forum said they wanted to watch while rats ate him to death. Another wanted follow him around town hoping for the opportunity to push him under a bus.

Vicious!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i imagine losing to josh on finale night would be more painful for paul than all of the above.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i imagine losing to josh on finale night would be more painful for paul than all of the above.


That'd be awesome, but I hope he doesn't even make it to final two.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

It would be interesting to see if Josh picks Paul if he wins Final comp. I know he and Christmas are tight, but I wonder if her not committing to take him is she won, is going to weigh on him. On the other hand, he's been saying for a few weeks now that Paul is going to be tough to beat in the jury. With that said, I think Josh is the only one who could out Paul's game to the jury and that could help him win.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

I can't wait for this season to be over.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

It's been the Paul show. I'm only reading live updates here and there.

The cast was starstruck and stupid, so I wouldn't say paul did anything masterful.

Hah... watch Paul get eaten by rats.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NJChris said:


> It's been the Paul show. I'm only reading live updates here and there.
> 
> The cast was starstruck and stupid, so I wouldn't say paul did anything masterful.
> 
> Hah... watch Paul get eaten by rats.


The most masterful thing he's done is realize that everyone was starstruck and wanted to work with him. He took it from there, getting rid of those that didn't want to work with him early (using willing allies to do it), and then, cutting, what he thinks, were the allies most likely to vote his way in the jury. Of course, that strategy could backfire if they are bitter (which seems possible). Now, having Dr. Will run the jury in my mind will seal it for Paul. It's amazing to me how much "help" Paul has had all season from production. I'd be all for Paul losing this game in the end despite all that, except having any of the others win, will annoy me just as much.

This reminds me of the season, I think the one that had Allison and someone else, where each one played a despicable game and the jury couldn't figure out who to vote for because they hated both. That's how I look at this season. I don't want any of the three to win. I'd love to see CBS say "none of you deserve to win, so we're taking our 500k and throwing it in the pot for next year"


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

The cliche is "Its game", but its true.

Imagine playing chess, but with each game there is a different combination of pieces. Sometimes there are 3 queens, 2 kings, 4 rooks, 7 pawns, etc. The next time is a different combo. How a person plays each game would be different because of pieces on the board. If you played exact same game each time, you wouldn't win very often, but if you adapt your game to based on the peices on the board, you have better chance to win... I can't fault Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game.

Yeah, everybody wants the White Knight to win, the person who never lies, never back stabs, remains true to his allies, and never makes any enemies. Then at the very end in the final two, he steps aside and lets someone else have the 500K because that person needs the money more than he does.... That would be Jim Rockford's pal Lance White


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> The most masterful thing he's done is realize that everyone was starstruck and wanted to work with him. He took it from there, getting rid of those that didn't want to work with him early (using willing allies to do it), and then, cutting, what he thinks, were the allies most likely to vote his way in the jury. Of course, that strategy could backfire if they are bitter (which seems possible). Now, having Dr. Will run the jury in my mind will seal it for Paul. It's amazing to me how much "help" Paul has had all season from production. I'd be all for Paul losing this game in the end despite all that, except having any of the others win, will annoy me just as much.
> 
> This reminds me of the season, I think the one that had Allison and someone else, where each one played a despicable game and the jury couldn't figure out who to vote for because they hated both. That's how I look at this season. I don't want any of the three to win. I'd love to see CBS say "none of you deserve to win, so we're taking our 500k and throwing it in the pot for next year"





Spoiler



Allison & Jun season 4


Julie Chen has said that crowning a winner that season was her least favorite moment of the entire franchise.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

nrnoble said:


> The cliche is "Its game", but its true.
> 
> Imagine playing chess, but with each game there is a different combination of pieces. Sometimes there are 3 queens, 2 kings, 4 rooks, 7 pawns, etc. The next time is a different combo. How a person plays each game would be different because of pieces on the board. If you played exact same game each time, you wouldn't win very often, but if you adapt your game to based on the peices on the board, you have better chance to win... I can't fault Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game.


I am not faulting Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game. Where I do fault Paul is not owning up to what he's done, as exemplified in a farewell message saying Christmas went rouge on me instead of saying he was responsible for the ouster. Another season like this could destroy the franchise as Big Brother starts losing too many viewers.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

brianric said:


> I am not faulting Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game. Where I do fault Paul is not owning up to what he's done, as exemplified in a farewell message saying Christmas went rouge on me instead of saying he was responsible for the ouster. Another season like this could destroy the franchise as Big Brother starts losing too many viewers.


I agree that it's a bad season, but the ratings actually went up. The best in 5 years or so.


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

brianric said:


> I am not faulting Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game. Where I do fault Paul is not owning up to what he's done, as exemplified in a farewell message saying Christmas went rouge on me instead of saying he was responsible for the ouster. Another season like this could destroy the franchise as Big Brother starts losing too many viewers.


I agree that does not make any sense to me either. Why lie in the goodbye message when the evicted HG is going to find out the truth anyway. Paul doesn't have to come clean either. He can say truly sincere stuff about what he likes about them as a human being, "You're a great person, etc, etc, etc", which stays clear of game play stuff until the end of game where he can explain everything from his perspective within the context of the game.

Previously a HG stated on the live feeds something like {paraphrasing}: "_They kept going over the same thing over and over, they were trying to get me to act like i was pissed off and wanted to kill him, but I wasn't going to do it_"... then we hear BB announce "Y_ou're not allowed to talk about production_". This gives a bit of insight as to what BB attempts to do when HGs are in the DR.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> The cliche is "Its game", but its true.
> 
> Imagine playing chess, but with each game there is a different combination of pieces. Sometimes there are 3 queens, 2 kings, 4 rooks, 7 pawns, etc. The next time is a different combo. How a person plays each game would be different because of pieces on the board. If you played exact same game each time, you wouldn't win very often, but if you adapt your game to based on the peices on the board, you have better chance to win... I can't fault Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game.
> 
> Yeah, everybody wants the White Knight to win, the person who never lies, never back stabs, remains true to his allies, and never makes any enemies. Then at the very end in the final two, he steps aside and lets someone else have the 500K because that person needs the money more than he does.... That would be Jim Rockford's pal Lance White


Nope, not me. My favorite players were Dr. Will and Dan, who both were not the most honest players . But, Paul was NOT a player I wanted to see play again and he was given advantages early in the game that enabled his strategy. So it's not about having the bad guy win, it's about having a player I didn't want to see be helped by the producers to win. And, Josh and Christmas aren't exactly White Knights either. I don't really think there WERE any this season to tell you the truth.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

realityboy said:


> Allison & Jun season 4. Julie Chen has said that crowning a winner that season was her least favorite moment of the entire franchise.


Yep, exactly. I remember the jury grilling them and each of them telling about how they back stabbed everyone.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> I agree that does not make any sense to me either. Why lie in the goodbye message when the evicted HG is going to find out the truth anyway. Paul doesn't have to come clean either. He can say truly sincere stuff about what he likes about them as a human being, "You're a great person, etc, etc, etc", which stays clear of game play stuff until the end of game where he can explain everything from his perspective within the context of the game.
> 
> *Previously a HG stated on the live feeds something like {paraphrasing}: "They kept going over the same thing over and over, they were trying to get me to act like i was pissed off and wanted to kill him, but I wasn't going to do it"... then we hear BB announce "You're not allowed to talk about production". This gives a bit of insight as to what BB attempts to do when HGs are in the DR.*


And this is the kind of thing that has begun to sour me on shows like BB and Survivor. Do you know who they were talking about?


----------



## Dobey (Nov 7, 2005)

nrnoble said:


> I agree that does not make any sense to me either. Why lie in the goodbye message when the evicted HG is going to find out the truth anyway. Paul doesn't have to come clean either. He can say truly sincere stuff about what he likes about them as a human being, "You're a great person, etc, etc, etc", which stays clear of game play stuff until the end of game where he can explain everything from his perspective within the context of the game.


This unintended genius by the "meatball" Josh took advantage of one part of the game that Paul couldn't contol... while Paul chose to lie to each evicted houseguest heading to Jury, Josh exposed Paul's game in those messages and created, what will ultimately be a bitter Jury... and Paul will lose.

Admittedly, I am not a fan of any of the final three.

My best case scenario would be for Josh to win round three of the HOH, and to take Christmas to the end, leaving Paul in 3rd, thinking he is at least a lock for AFP... and then watching his reaction to Cody winning AFP!

Looking forward to the finale!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dobey said:


> This unintended genius by the "meatball" Josh took advantage of one part of the game that Paul couldn't contol... while Paul chose to lie to each evicted houseguest heading to Jury, Josh exposed Paul's game in those messages and created, what will ultimately be a bitter Jury... and Paul will lose.
> 
> Admittedly, I am not a fan of any of the final three.
> 
> ...


So considering the types of leading questions that BB seems to push for, I wonder if Julie will let them ask the types of questions that will expose Paul. Or if Will will lead them to consider that the game played by Paul should trump all the backstabbing he did to each of them. I'm guessing, that if Paul makes the final two, that by the time he gets to speak to the jury, they will already be persuaded to vote for him.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

realityboy said:


> <snipped>. Julie Chen has said that crowning a winner that season was her least favorite moment of the entire franchise.


Mine too, by far.

tta


----------



## Dobey (Nov 7, 2005)

tivotvaddict said:


> Mine too, by far.
> 
> tta


Mine too, but the "friendship alliance" from Season 6,


Spoiler



with the final 2 of Ivette and Maggie


 is a close second.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Dobey said:


> Mine too, but the "friendship alliance" from Season 6, with the final 2 of Ivette and Maggie is a close second.


Ugh...I know this is a spoiler thread from season 19, but I just started watching Season 6 this weekend (purchased All Access due to fight between my CBS channel and DirecTV). I should have known better.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Squeak said:


> Ugh...I know this is a spoiler thread from season 19, but I just started watching Season 6 this weekend (purchased All Access due to fight between my CBS channel and DirecTV). I should have known better.


eeks, I know you didn't say Season 4, but I didn't even think of this being a potential spoiler. Sorry! I just edited the quote I used in my response to the season 4 winner to remove the winner info.

tta


----------



## Dobey (Nov 7, 2005)

Squeak said:


> Ugh...I know this is a spoiler thread from season 19, but I just started watching Season 6 this weekend (purchased All Access due to fight between my CBS channel and DirecTV). I should have known better.


Sorry... added spoiler tags for the Season 6 info. Even though this is a spoiler thread, I should have thought that one through. Please update the quote in your reply to remove the spoiler as well!


----------



## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

brianric said:


> I am not faulting Paul for taking advantage of other people's strengths & weakness in the game. Where I do fault Paul is not owning up to what he's done, as exemplified in a farewell message saying Christmas went rouge on me instead of saying he was responsible for the ouster. Another season like this could destroy the franchise as Big Brother starts losing too many viewers.


If Paul is in the final 2, that's the time to confess to what he's been up to, not in the farewell messages. Even if he doesn't do that, he should win because he's played a better game. Much like...

(old Survivor spoiler)


Spoiler



Boston Rob in the season he won Survivor



...Paul has played with a pretty lame group of competitors, but he still outplayed them.


----------



## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

A few observations:

I really liked Paul early on and admired how smart he was at playing everyone. But there came a point when all of a sudden I turned on him and wanted him to be found out. Not sure if it is just boredom with how easy it is to get everyone to do what he wants, or the way his manipulations are kinda mean, like yelling at Josh after that eviction --"If I were sitting up there would you have evicted me??" It has gone too far. He should certainly win, though.

I can't stand the diary room moments anymore. Were they always so yelly and recappy? There is never anything genuine or unrehearsed. Especially Paul.

Reading this thread and noticing you guys commenting on this final two or that final two, I am amazed at how I can't remember them at all. I have watched every episode of every season and once they are done, the players just fade away--except for the big memorable ones. I met James Rhine at a restaurant up in way northern Wisconsin once, btw.

Most memorable Big Brother moment....."Busto! Busto!"

/end of random commenting


----------



## Dobey (Nov 7, 2005)

EscapeGoat said:


> If Paul is in the final 2, that's the time to confess to he's been up to, not in the farewell messages. Even if he doesn't do that, he should win because he's played a better game. Much like...
> 
> (old Survivor spoiler)
> 
> ...


I agree Paul has played with a lame group. But, Big Brother and Survivor are completely different games, and Jury Management will be the reason Paul does not win. Paul may have "outplayed" those that are in the Jury, but he failed to "expect the unexpected"... By not realizing that Josh was providing each evicted house guest with the details on how and why they were evicted, and watching Paul lie about how they were evicted has created a bitter Jury that will not vote for him to win. Waiting until he is in the final 2 to confess will be too late to swing the votes needed to pull out the win. The only wildcard at this point is Dr Will and CBS... which direction will they lead the Jury down in the final interviews with the remaining houseguests?


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Tracy said:


> A few observations:
> 
> I really liked Paul early on and admired how smart he was at playing everyone. But there came a point when all of a sudden I turned on him and wanted him to be found out. Not sure if it is just boredom with how easy it is to get everyone to do what he wants, or the way his manipulations are kinda mean, like yelling at Josh after that eviction --"If I were sitting up there would you have evicted me??" It has gone too far. He should certainly win, though.
> 
> ...


I also have trouble remembering a lot of past seasons. There are people I remember because I was big fans of theirs such as Dan and Will, and I remember moments from the shows, but otherwise, I don't remember too much. I went to a wiki yesterday to try and look up some of these people just to refresh my memory.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dobey said:


> I agree Paul has played with a lame group. But, Big Brother and Survivor are completely different games, and Jury Management will be the reason Paul does not win. Paul may have "outplayed" those that are in the Jury, but he failed to "expect the unexpected"... By not realizing that Josh was providing each evicted house guest with the details on how and why they were evicted, and watching Paul lie about how they were evicted has created a bitter Jury that will not vote for him to win. Waiting until he is in the final 2 to confess will be too late to swing the votes needed to pull out the win. The only wildcard at this point is Dr Will and CBS... which direction will they lead the Jury down in the final interviews with the remaining houseguests?


Maybe I'm missing something, but where did Josh tell the evicted houseguests how they were evicted? Was this something they showed in Friday's episode? If that's the case, the Jury seemed to not know from what i can see. Right now, if you look at the jury, I think most of them are not fans of Christmas or Josh either and think they were in on the whole thing and, in fact maybe among the ring leaders. I agree that Will and CBS will do all they can to put Paul's game in a more positive light. I'll be surprised if Paul makes the final two if he doesn't win. I do think we'll know pretty quickly which way this will go.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Dobey said:


> Mine too, but the "friendship alliance" from Season 6,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Oh gross! Ugh, I hated that season. I can hear it all right now in my head....cappy, cappy, cappy


----------



## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Yes, Season 4 was awful, season 6 was awful, season 9 was awful, this season was awful... hey, exactly why am I watching this show?


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Friendship Alliance is my all time low for Big Brother.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

lambertman said:


> Yes, Season 4 was awful, season 6 was awful, season 9 was awful, this season was awful... hey, exactly why am I watching this show?


Nineteen seasons, 3 awful. That's not bad really. There were some truly great seasons. Season 2 (which got me hooked), The two Dan seasons come to mind.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

GoPackGo said:


> Friendship Alliance is my all time low for Big Brother.


I hated that season, but it's also the season that made me a contrarian with BB. I absolutely hated the way Janelle, Howie and Kaysar acted and that made me hate them even more than the friendship alliance.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but where did Josh tell the evicted houseguests how they were evicted?


In the goodbye video messages he told them about the secret alliance with Paul, while Paul acted like he knew nothing in his messages.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> In the goodbye video messages he told them about the secret alliance with Paul, while Paul acted like he knew nothing in his messages.


I don't think that gave away much. I also don't think that, once the houseguests realize that they were played, it will matter. I'm sure that Will will explain (that's a funky sentence structure!) that's how the game is played. As I said, this was already brought up in the jury house where everyone admitted they were in a secret alliance with Paul. At the end of the day, either the jury will be mad at Paul for how they were played, or, they will admit he played a great game and bamboozled them all. Over time, they will realize the latter I believe. I think ONLY if Paul insists that they were all REAL alliances and he really intended to take them all to the final 3 will he get in trouble, because THEN the jury will feel that he was insincere.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I don't think that gave away much. I also don't think that, once the houseguests realize that they were played, it will matter. I'm sure that Will will explain (that's a funky sentence structure!) that's how the game is played. As I said, this was already brought up in the jury house where everyone admitted they were in a secret alliance with Paul. At the end of the day, either the jury will be mad at Paul for how they were played, or, they will admit he played a great game and bamboozled them all. Over time, they will realize the latter I believe. I think ONLY if Paul insists that they were all REAL alliances and he really intended to take them all to the final 3 will he get in trouble, because THEN the jury will feel that he was insincere.


In years past (and I think this one too) house guests were frequently clued in a day or two before that they were going home this week. Even more so over the last few seasons where it seems almost no one bothers to even campaign anymore. I believe Kevin told Jason he was going home the day or two before which upset Paul (or at least he pretended it did to make them not trust Kevin). Everything this year was done sneaky and as mean as possible. Two of the house guests (at least) stormed out without even saying good bye to the others. Then they watch the good bye videos and Paul is STILL lying to them. Sorry to see you go man. Not sure what happened, or so and so flipped. Then they watch Josh's good bye video where he tells them Paul screwed you. Other then Raven (and maybe Matt) I think everyone else in the jury knows Paul ran the show/house and screwed most of them over. Will they hold it against Paul?

I can certainly see a few of these house guest holding that against Paul. Especially if comes down to Paul and Josh. Josh has won some stuff he wasn't just along for the ride.

I honestly am not sure who Mark and Cody would vote for between the two. Perhaps Paul. The rest (maybe Jason and Alex) might be bitter enough to give their votes to Josh. While Paul was the puppet master (sorry Raven), Josh won comps and did a lot of the dirty work.

If either of the guys were smart they would take Christmas. She really doesn't deserve to win and from what I understand was just as horrible if not worse in the after dark feeds (I personally didn't watch). She coasted (understandable with a broken foot). No way can she make the case she had the better game play over either Paul or Josh.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

That is why they never should have allowed Christmas to stay in the game with a broken foot. It just lets her coast to the end because she can't compete in competitions and makes everyone want to keep her in so their chances are better.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jcondon said:


> In years past (and I think this one too) house guests were frequently clued in a day or two before that they were going home this week. Even more so over the last few seasons where it seems almost no one bothers to even campaign anymore. I believe Kevin told Jason he was going home the day or two before which upset Paul (or at least he pretended it did to make them not trust Kevin). Everything this year was done sneaky and as mean as possible. Two of the house guests (at least) stormed out without even saying good bye to the others. Then they watch the good bye videos and Paul is STILL lying to them. Sorry to see you go man. Not sure what happened, or so and so flipped. Then they watch Josh's good bye video where he tells them Paul screwed you. Other then Raven (and maybe Matt) I think everyone else in the jury knows Paul ran the show/house and screwed most of them over. Will they hold it against Paul?
> 
> I can certainly see a few of these house guest holding that against Paul. Especially if comes down to Paul and Josh. Josh has won some stuff he wasn't just along for the ride.
> 
> ...


I agree, that I'd take Christmas, with the one caveat is that she'll play the "I did amazing considering my broken foot and was in on all the scheming" card. That may play on some people's sympathy. But yeah, she's been pretty despicable as far as i can see. On the other hand, Josh, with all his bluster about how he knew Paul's game and outing him, did NOTHING to stop him. A big move against Paul, which he threatened over and over would have cinched it for him. At the end of the day, he did Paul's bidding like a good little soldier. If this isn't a bitter jury, that could play against him...that he never played his own game. As far as I can tell, I see the votes going this way:

Cody - Paul (I think he recognizes the game he played and JOSH was brutal to him. I also think he doesn't like Chirstmas
Mark - Paul (again, he knows the game Paul played and I think Paul was pretty straight up with him, plus he had the blowup with Josh. And Christmas was brutal to him as well.
Elena - We know she's bitter toward Christmas (and Josh), but she doesn't like Paul either. Ultimately, she'll vote for Paul.
Matt / Raven - They think that they, with Paul, masterminded the game and that other forces led to their ouster. They both vote for Paul.

So that's enough votes, even if if Christmas/Josh vote for each other and Alex/Jason are bitter toward Paul.

Anyone see it different?


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> That is why they never should have allowed Christmas to stay in the game with a broken foot. It just lets her coast to the end because she can't compete in competitions and makes everyone want to keep her in so their chances are better.


I tend to agree with that, but on the other hand, how can you kick her out if she can still "play"? It wasn't her fault she got hurt. And if the HG didn't see that she's doing that, shame on them.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Cody - Paul (I think he recognizes the game he played and JOSH was brutal to him. I also think he doesn't like Chirstmas
> Mark - Paul (again, he knows the game Paul played and I think Paul was pretty straight up with him, plus he had the blowup with Josh. And Christmas was brutal to him as well.
> Elena - We know she's bitter toward Christmas (and Josh), but she doesn't like Paul either. Ultimately, she'll vote for Paul.
> Matt / Raven - They think that they, with Paul, masterminded the game and that other forces led to their ouster. They both vote for Paul.
> ...


Wonder if Mark and Cody figure out it was Paul that put Josh up to the pots and pans thing and much of the crap Josh did. Sure Josh is an adult (legally anyway) and decided to do those things but he was certainly egged on and put up to much of it by Paul. If people vote on the merits Paul should win over Josh and Christmas. Guess we will see if enough people have cooled down and vote for the one who played the best game over all. Or if they are spiteful / bitter.

I can certainly see Cody and Mark (and by extension maybe Elena) voting for Paul.

I think Paul wins if he is final two. If not Josh over Christmas.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I don't think that gave away much. I also don't think that, once the houseguests realize that they were played, it will matter.


It didn't give away anything that wouldn't have come out in the jury house, but by continuing to lie at that point only makes it more personal. It's pretty stupid to try and manipulate them at that point, and if it does anything, it can only serve to make the juror more bitter. Now, it may or may not wind up having that effect, but why even risk that? What's the point? It was a dumb and unnecessary move, but obviously one that was intentional.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I think Paul would have been better off admitting what he'd done in the farewell messages vs waiting for a final 2 speech to the jury. It's going to initially make them very angry. I think it would've been best to give them some time to get over some of that anger and be able to place their vote with reason as opposed to emotion.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

The best outcome is for Josh to win, and take Christmas over Paul. That's best for his game. That's best for my entertainment. So, let's do that!

I don't like him any more than I like Paul. Actually, I might personally like Paul a bit better. I used to like Christmas, but even she's terrible. 
I just don't want Paul to win. He deserves it more than any. Josh should have taken him out - what, three times now? 

Idiots!


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I tend to agree with that, but on the other hand, how can you kick her out if she can still "play"? It wasn't her fault she got hurt. And if the HG didn't see that she's doing that, shame on them.


I see that argument, but I think this would have been an actual good reason to have a returning houseguest next year. Definitely invite her to play again, just not this year.

I'm guessing they're still going to invite her back for a future season so they can have the "now that she's at full strength, see how she does" angle.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

What do you think their definition of celebrity is for Celebrity BB? You'll see Christmas and Paul again in the spring.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

series5orpremier said:


> What do you think their definition of celebrity is for Celebrity BB? You'll see Christmas and Paul again in the spring.


Kathy Griffin, some singer I've never heard of, some athlete I've never heard of 

Though I think you're right that we'll get at least one previous houseguest.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> The best outcome is for Josh to win, and take Christmas over Paul. That's best for his game. That's best for my entertainment. So, let's do that!
> 
> I don't like him any more than I like Paul. Actually, I might personally like Paul a bit better. I used to like Christmas, but even she's terrible.
> I just don't want Paul to win. He deserves it more than any. *Josh should have taken him out - what, three times now? *
> ...


See I see that as Paul's biggest argument against Josh winning. "You've known now for 3 evictions prior to the final three what I was doing, yet, you STILL chose to keep me in the game. You had THREE cracks at putting me up, yet you didn't. Why? Because I told you not to. I ran you and I ran Christmas, and you know it. You were playing MY game."


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

DancnDude said:


> Kathy Griffin, some singer I've never heard of, some athlete I've never heard of
> 
> Though I think you're right that we'll get at least one previous houseguest.


Meatloaf, Gary Bussey, Latoya Jackson, Brett Michaels...


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

I don’t recall anyone using the goodbye messages for disinformation in previous seasons. Good on Paul for trying that tactic, but I think he should have realized that Josh and others would not try to weaponize the messages.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

GoPackGo said:


> I don't recall anyone using the goodbye messages for disinformation in previous seasons. Good on Paul for trying that tactic, but I think he should have realized that Josh and others would not try to weaponize the messages.


That's only if the jury reveals the GB message. Otherwise how would Josh know what Paul said?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> That's only if the jury reveals the GB message. Otherwise how would Josh know what Paul said?


He's not saying that Josh would know what Paul said. Just that Paul should realize that Josh isn't doing the same, so he might be revealing the truth as people often do, contradicting his own lie and making it seem like an unnecessary manipulation.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

SoBelle0 said:


> The best outcome is for Josh to win, and take Christmas over Paul. That's best for his game. That's best for my entertainment. So, let's do that!
> 
> I don't like him any more than I like Paul. Actually, I might personally like Paul a bit better. I used to like Christmas, but even she's terrible.
> I just don't want Paul to win. He deserves it more than any. Josh should have taken him out - what, three times now?
> ...


This is how I feel.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

If Josh weren't such a bully, I may have rooted for him to win here. I just can't stand how big of a bully he was. I'm not sure why everybody hated on Mark so much, he seemed like a nice guy to me.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

DancnDude said:


> If Josh weren't such a bully, I may have rooted for him to win here. I just can't stand how big of a bully he was. I'm not sure why everybody hated on Mark so much, he seemed like a nice guy to me.


Because he cried.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> If Josh weren't such a bully, I may have rooted for him to win here. I just can't stand how big of a bully he was. I'm not sure why everybody hated on Mark so much, he seemed like a nice guy to me.


That's exactly how I feel. I find it really hard to root for him. I have trouble rooting for any one of these people, so I'm not rooting for anyone, I'm just curious who wins at this point.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Prediction time:
Cody - Paul
Elena - Paul
Mark - Paul
Matt - Paul
Raven - Paul
Jason - Josh
Alex - Josh
Kevin - Paul
Christmas - Josh


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Josh's answers were far better than Paul's. And the questions seem to piss Paul off, which was fun to watch. Why did he still not own up to all the unnecessary lies? 

Yet, I'm sure the sheep will still give it to Paul.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Wow.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I know! I was way off!! LOL!


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Perfection!! Paul was pissed. Then Cody won AFP. 
Sweet justice and so entertaining.


----------



## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

SoBelle0 said:


> Perfection!! Paul was pissed. Then Cody won AFP.
> Sweet justice and so entertaining.


BEST ending to a bad season!


----------



## Dobey (Nov 7, 2005)

Dobey said:


> This unintended genius by the "meatball" Josh took advantage of one part of the game that Paul couldn't contol... while Paul chose to lie to each evicted houseguest heading to Jury, Josh exposed Paul's game in those messages and created, what will ultimately be a bitter Jury... and Paul will lose.
> 
> Admittedly, I am not a fan of any of the final three.
> 
> ...


Ha! Two out of three tonight!


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

series5orpremier said:


> What do you think their definition of celebrity is for Celebrity BB? You'll see Christmas and Paul again in the spring.


I'm done with Celebrity BB if Paul comes back.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

SoBelle0 said:


> Josh's answers were far better than Paul's. And the questions seem to piss Paul off, which was fun to watch. Why did he still not own up to all the unnecessary lies?
> 
> Yet, I'm sure the sheep will still give it to Paul.


Yeah, I don't get why he continued to lie and not own up to things.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Super surprising ending! I thought Christmas was going to vote for Josh. I also thought Josh had a better chance to beat Christmas. Paul really could not see how angry he made people by his game of pitting couples against one another and playing everybody's friend.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

angbear1985 said:


> BEST ending to a bad season!


What a satisfying end. Suck it Paul.

Josh was much better in the finale than Paul. Paul is in denial.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> Super surprising ending! I thought Christmas was going to vote for Josh. I also thought Josh had a better chance to beat Christmas. Paul really could not see how angry he made people by his game of pitting couples against one another and playing everybody's friend.


I think if he had owned up to what he did during the finale, he could've won. Instead, he tried to claim the moral high ground and that pissed people off.

Paul's face when they showed Josh's farewell messages was Gold, Jerry, GOLD!


----------



## capriz (Aug 4, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> Kathy Griffin, some singer I've never heard of, some athlete I've never heard of
> 
> Though I think you're right that we'll get at least one previous houseguest.


If we don't see Julie in the house as a player ... well then wtf CBS?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

capriz said:


> If we don't see Julie in the house as a player ... well then wtf CBS?


Somebody from The Talk will be there. Aisha Tyler loves to do every job she can get her hands on. Maybe one of Sharon Osbourne's kids.

It was great it all came down to Cody's vote and he had explained it as 'I voted for the person who stabbed me face rather than the person who stabbed me in the back.'


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

series5orpremier said:


> Somebody from The Talk will be there. Aisha Tyler loves to do every job she can get her hands on. Maybe one of Sharon Osbourne's kids.
> 
> It was great it all came down to Cody's vote and he had explained it as 'I voted for the person who stabbed me face rather than the person who stabbed me in the back.'


No, that's what Alex said. Cody just said he was going to stay true to his word.


----------



## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

I'm no fan of Josh, but it was oh so satisfying to see Paul is sooooo pissed. He really thought he won until he realized the final vote came down to Cody. Lost by 1 vote again!


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

I thought for sure when Josh picked Paul over Christmas he would have lost by several votes. Thought it was a huge mistake and maybe almost still was but he got just one more vote over Paul.

Paul whining about they will have to live with their votes after he lost. Does he think any of them is going to wake up tomorrow and regret not voting for him? 

I guess most of these house guest didn't get how much America didn't like most of them. I think Josh and Paul thought Christmas was going to get Americas favorite player. She wasn't even in the top 3.


----------



## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

When they announced Josh the winner - Paul went over to the side - by the memory wall.... I was thinking the 2nd place person walked out of the house - before the winner did? After Josh came out - few moments later you could see Paul come out of the house, in the background.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

SoBelle0 said:


> Perfection!! Paul was pissed. Then Cody won AFP.
> Sweet justice and so entertaining.





Stylin said:


> I'm no fan of Josh, but it was oh so satisfying to see Paul is sooooo pissed. He really thought he won until he realized the final vote came down to Cody. Lost by 1 vote again!


I think Paul realized he was going to lose after it was 4 to 2 in his favor when Mark voted for Josh, with Elena and Cody's vote left to be counted. You could see Paul muttering what was probably curse words. Josh thought he lost just before Cody's vote was announced.


----------



## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Josh has, what I call, an 'authentic' personality; he is always himself. What may have won over the majority was that he truly liked\respected each of the people who voted for him and they felt if they reversed places, he'd vote for them to win. With Paul, they did not get that same feeling. Josh made real personal connections with other HGs, Paul did not, or to a much lesser degree.

IMHO, the producers pick 4 people upfront who they feel have all the qualities to win. I am not too sure Josh was one of the 4. I think he was intended to be a pawn that would not make it to the end. He turned out to be a better player than expected.

I would have voted for Paul because getting to the final 2 in back to back season take a great deal of skill. In the context of the game BB, he outplayed everyone, but clearly when the table got turned on him, he was denied 500K because he lacked something.

It would be interesting to find out if a vote for Josh, was really a protest vote, a vote against Paul. In other words, any other HGs could have been sitting next to Paul, and Paul still would have not enough votes to win. Cody's vote was a "I HATE PAUL" vote, and nothing to do with Paul's total game play. Cody's takes things too personally and he hold grudges (which is exactly why he was chose to a HG this season).


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

angbear1985 said:


> When they announced Josh the winner - Paul went over to the side - by the memory wall.... I was thinking the 2nd place person walked out of the house - before the winner did? After Josh came out - few moments later you could see Paul come out of the house, in the background.


Pretty sure the winner is always the first one to walk out.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

What a crappy season that was redeemed by a great finale.

Looking forward to discussing next season with you all.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the look on paul's face when he lost to josh was worth every minute of this lousy season. 

cody casting the deciding vote, then winning afp, was icing on the cake.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Paul fan all season but I was fine with Josh winning. Any votes Paul had from the jury before the finale were certainly lost with his terrible answers to jury questions. Had Paul answered those questions differently I think he could have won.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob has a Podcast had interviewed Julie Chen. Julie said Paul's expressions during Josh's answers to the jury were disrespectful and that also could have cost him.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

SoBelle0 said:


> Perfection!! Paul was pissed. Then Cody won AFP.
> Sweet justice and so entertaining.





NorthAlabama said:


> the look on paul's face when he lost to josh was worth every minute of this lousy season.
> cody casting the deciding vote, then winning afp, was icing on the cake.


Exactly my thoughts!


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

gossamer88 said:


> Rob has a Podcast had interviewed Julie Chen. Julie said Paul's expressions during Josh's answers to the jury were disrespectful and that also could have cost him.


I was thinking the same thing. If I were an undecided jury member I think Paul's facial expressions combined with his disingenuous responses to the jury questions and Josh's surprisingly decent answers to they jury probably would have swayed me to vote for Josh. Paul definitely played a better game but Josh won the jury.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

GoPackGo said:


> Paul fan all season but I was fine with Josh winning. Any votes Paul had from the jury before the finale were certainly lost with his terrible answers to jury questions. Had Paul answered those questions differently I think he could have won.


But he couldn't answer them differently because of his arrogance.

Sure, there's such a thing as a bitter jury. However, jury management has to be a part of your strategy.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Given how much time he had to think about what he was going to say on finale night, it's amazing how bad Paul's responses were.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

rahnbo said:


> I was thinking the same thing. If I were an undecided jury member I think Paul's facial expressions combined with his disingenuous responses to the jury questions and Josh's surprisingly decent answers to they jury probably would have swayed me to vote for Josh. Paul definitely played a better game but Josh won the jury.


Here's the interview on YouTube.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Given how much time he had to think about what he was going to say on finale night, it's amazing how bad Paul's responses were.


He still thought that he "didn't get any blood on his hands" and that's what would win it for him, when in fact, his betrayal of most of his allies, was more of an artery gusher than any of his manipulation. He was covered in blood as it turned out.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> He still thought that he "didn't get any blood on his hands" and that's what would win it for him, when in fact, his betrayal of most of his allies, was more of an artery gusher than any of his manipulation. He was covered in blood as it turned out.


That's the thing that I just don't understand. Paul strikes me as a reasonably intelligent guy. Did he truly think that nobody in the jury would put two and two together and realize that he stabbed them in the back?


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

gweempose said:


> That's the thing that I just don't understand. Paul strikes me as a reasonably intelligent guy. Did he truly think that nobody in the jury would put two and two together and realize that he stabbed them in the back?


At least from a view perspective, to me that is the way the game should be played. At least that is how we saw players like Dr Will play it. Play everyone, then get them evicted...as long as they don't know you are doing it before you are evicted, who cares if they compare notes once they get to jury. That's how they realize who they got outplayed by.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> At least from a viewer perspective, to me that is the way the game should be played. At least that is how we saw players like Dr Will play it. Play everyone, then get them evicted...as long as they don't know you are doing it before you are evicted, who cares if they compare notes once they get to jury. That's how they realize who they got outplayed by.


I don't disagree, but Paul continued to stick to his "I'm innocent" story all the way to the very end. What did he possibly have to gain from that approach? It was basically like saying to the jury, "You guys are so stupid that even once you were evicted and able to talk among yourselves, you still didn't realize that I lied to you and manipulated you for my own gain." This strategy makes no sense at all. I simply don't understand what Paul was thinking. He seemed to place all the emphasis on how the jury viewed him when they were still in the house, and completely ignored how they might feel in hindsight after being evicted and comparing notes with the other jurors. It's like all that mattered to Paul was that they weren't mad at him at the very moment they walked out the door. This is such a truly shortsighted way to view the game, and very surprising to see from a second time player of Paul's caliber.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> At least from a view perspective, to me that is the way the game should be played. At least that is how we saw players like Dr Will play it. Play everyone, then get them evicted...as long as they don't know you are doing it before you are evicted, who cares if they compare notes once they get to jury. That's how they realize who they got outplayed by.


Except, you still need to do this artfully and own up to your game. Paul thought everything through, except how to pacify the people he was voting out and then not owning up to his game, even at the end, claiming that others were responsible for them going out. Once they have been evicted, he should have explained to them in the DR goodbye message what he was doing. I guess his paranoia that they would talk to each other in the jury got to him. So that made him seem even more duplicitous to the jurors. So I agree that this is one of the best ways to play but you have to own up to it.

The other way to play is to lie in the weeds, make friends with everyone and seem like a non-threat, and then, spring into action once the jury becomes a factor. But as fans, we usually hate this type of game. We always will complain that they never "played the game". But it's much easier to get votes playing that style of game.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Had Paul owned up to what he did, it would be a different game. I don't recall specifics, but I think that Will was more charming, and certainly more honest about his dishonesty. Paul came off like a hypocrite with all the friendship crap.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> At least from a view perspective, to me that is the way the game should be played. At least that is how we saw players like Dr Will play it. Play everyone, then get them evicted...as long as they don't know you are doing it before you are evicted, who cares if they compare notes once they get to jury. That's how they realize who they got outplayed by.


Will owned it in the DR. The players voting saw his DRs. Also, fwiw, most that season were more bitter towards the other finalist. Will was on the block most of the season and rarely voted, plus he was never HOH.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

realityboy said:


> Will owned it in the DR. The players voting saw his DRs. Also, fwiw, most that season were more bitter towards the other finalist. Will was on the block most of the season and rarely voted, plus he was never HOH.


It was also S2 and the first time BB had been played in the current format, so everything was new. Will invented a lot of what we see in BB today and how to play. So stuff he could get away with then, might not work now.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Is season 2 available to stream anywhere? I never saw it. I started watching in season 3. I'd probably be shocked by how much the game has changed since then.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Is season 2 available to stream anywhere? I never saw it. I started watching in season 3. I'd probably be shocked by how much the game has changed since then.


All seasons are on CBS All Access.

For a real shock, sample a few minutes of season 1.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Paul just needed to own up to his gameplay. The goodbye messages should have been more like: "in order to keep myself safe, I had to play the middle with all of the couples and swing to the couple that won HoH. Unfortunately that means you had to go." He just didn't do enough to be sympathetic to those he voted out.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

realityboy said:


> All seasons are on CBS All Access.


Interesting. I had been debating signing up for All Access solely for the new Star Trek show. This sounds like just the extra incentive I was looking for. :grinning:


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

gweempose said:


> Is season 2 available to stream anywhere? I never saw it. I started watching in season 3. I'd probably be shocked by how much the game has changed since then.


I keep meaning to go watch that season. I started with All-Stars, and thought Will was a fantastic player. I'd like to see the origin story, as it were.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> I keep meaning to go watch that season. I started with All-Stars, and thought Will was a fantastic player. I'd like to see the origin story, as it were.


I think all the seasons are available on Hulu. EDIT: OOPS! It doesn't! Doesn't seem to be available anywhere.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I don't think you can get CBS stuff on Hulu.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

hefe said:


> I don't think you can get CBS stuff on Hulu.


Oops! You're right!


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

gweempose said:


> That's the thing that I just don't understand. Paul strikes me as a reasonably intelligent guy. Did he truly think that nobody in the jury would put two and two together and realize that he stabbed them in the back?


He's inteligent, but he's also very arrogant.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

You really need to watch Season 1. It will be shocking.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Just finally watched. That sucked! Josh wins game.... boo, then Cody wins most popular player... wtf?!?

Josh was annoying all season and Cody was just an a**hole to everyone but his girlfriend. Two less deserving people couldn't have won.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

paul is lucky his dr sessions weren't shown to the jury until _after_ they voted, the looks on their faces after watching were priceless.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> paul is lucky his dr sessions weren't shown to the jury until _after_ they voted, the looks on their faces after watching were priceless.


Lucky? He lost. Couldn't have really been any worse for him. In fact perhaps if they had seen them maybe some of them would have had more respect for how much he was involved in every decision in the house. Like Jessica did.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> Lucky? He lost. Couldn't have really been any worse for him. In fact perhaps if they had seen them maybe some of them would have had more respect for how much he was involved in every decision in the house. Like Jessica did.


true, but it could have been a landslide, at least it was close. by the time a minority of the jury (paul voters) began to realize what had happened to them, the vote had happened.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

So I finally watched this yesterday. Paul had such a 'tude during the questioning that any hope he had of salvaging a single vote (which is all he needed) was lost. Josh is a jerk, but Paul is such a cocky bastard it was satisfying to see him lose. He could have done what he did without being as nasty as he was, and owning his game, and I would have respected him. Unlike villains like Dr. Will, he had no charm and there was just nothing likeable about him. I disliked him last year (that whole friendship thing was so smarmy) and I hated him this year even more.
I was also sorry to see that Kevin didn't win fan favorite - he was the only decent person in that house.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I agree that Paul should have been a bit more humble during the questioning. I think he was shocked that they didn't fall for his attempt to manipulate them out the door. He tried to position himself so that he looked like everyone's friend and didn't have a hand in their eviction, but that part failed and they all figured it out.

But he still should have won, and I think once the jurors have a chance to watch back the season at least a couple of them will probably wish they could change their vote. They voted on emotion instead of voting based on who played the best game and I think at least one of them will regret it.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

A big part of this game is social. And I don't think there is a patented formula on deciding a winner. I think people base their votes using all kinds of criteria. Other "villains" have won, so I don't think it was just because he was a bad guy. I think he lost because he didn't own it. I think if his goodbye messages and his final speech had been "I know I screwed you, but you all knew my game from before and I had to change it up and lying an manipulating everyone was the only way I could win", he probably would have gotten every vote. But even at the very end he couldn't admit it, even when he was asked point blank by the jury. That was when he and his cocky 'tude lost. He still wanted to be everyone's friend while he stabbed them in the back. You can't have it both ways.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I wonder what would happen if they did a season of a show like BB or Survivor based on points? You get x points for being HOH, x points for POV, and x points for jury votes. At least the throwing and complete predetermination of comps wouldn't be a thing.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I think if they just made the first X number of people who are eliminated from the competition Have Nots for the week, that would ruin the vast majority of the plans. Or adding more punishments for those dropping early.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> I think if they just made the first X number of people who are eliminated from the competition Have Nots for the week, that would ruin the vast majority of the plans. Or adding more punishments for those dropping early.


They did that for about half the season. 1st few out in HOH were Have Nots.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

points works great for hoh, veto, cleaning the house, cooking for the house, making your bed, or taking daily showers, but it's difficult to find fair and accurate measurements to allow assignment of points to the social aspect of the game.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Perhaps make the punishments more severe like the one Dan got where he was isolated for 24 hours or however long it was and had to listen to crappy loud music.? I don't think I've seen a worse punishment in BB although he came out of that with his whole new funeral thing and that worked to his advantage.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

NorthAlabama said:


> points works great for hoh, veto, cleaning the house, cooking for the house, making your bed, or taking daily showers, but it's difficult to find fair and accurate measurements to allow assignment of points to the social aspect of the game.


That's true. It would require a large amount of time and thinking to get it ironed out. I was thinking something like the HOH could nominate whomever they wanted, the POV would run as normal, then when it came time for eviction the person with lowest score with points subtracted for jury votes would be evicted.

Edit: The jury = the jury and/or house votes.


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Any word on who the celebrities will be for BB? Are they going to be a typical rehash of B-list celebrities? I guess if it works for dancing the stars and other such shows, they will just get use the same list. How about getting famous convicted felons like OJ, Burnie Madoff, Charles Manson?

But I suspect it will be a typical theme like "Former Child Stars" Kate and Ashly, Danny Bonaduce, Todd Bridges, ALF, The Brady Kids, Dustin Diamond, Macaulay Culkin, Lindsay Lohan, Corey Feldman, and special musical guest star Leif Garrett.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I agree that Paul should have been a bit more humble during the questioning. I think he was shocked that they didn't fall for his attempt to manipulate them out the door. He tried to position himself so that he looked like everyone's friend and didn't have a hand in their eviction, but that part failed and they all figured it out.
> 
> But he still should have won, and I think once the jurors have a chance to watch back the season at least a couple of them will probably wish they could change their vote. They voted on emotion instead of voting based on who played the best game and I think at least one of them will regret it.


I've had a bit of time to think a bit more about the game and I think Paul's fatal flaw was realizing that Jason and Alex would be the bitter jurists and that Josh and Christmas would have probably had his back at the jury. Right there, that flips the vote in his favor. I think Josh and Christmas realized the game play (and as you saw, Christmas voted for Paul even though she was evicted.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Christmas voted for Paul because she has the hots for him...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

She said it was because Josh evicted her.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

hefe said:


> She said it was because Josh evicted her.


I think it is more because she has the hots for Paul regardless of what she said. If Paul had won maybe he would have spent some of that money on trips for the two of them or whatever.

She had contemplated tell them both to take the other guy shortly before eviction.

I guess it could be multiple reasons but I think for the most part she wanted her showmance to get the big money.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Christmas voted for Paul because she has the hots for him...





hefe said:


> She said it was because Josh evicted her.


Whatever the reason, she wound up voting for Paul even when her "take with" was still there. I suspect that Josh would have too. I don't think they would have been as bitter.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Whatever the reason, she wound up voting for Paul even when her "take with" was still there. I suspect that Josh would have too. I don't think they would have been as bitter.


of course not, they were in an alliance with paul...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jcondon said:


> I think it is more because she has the hots for Paul regardless of what she said. If Paul had won maybe he would have spent some of that money on trips for the two of them or whatever.
> 
> She had contemplated tell them both to take the other guy shortly before eviction.
> 
> I guess it could be multiple reasons but I think for the most part she wanted her showmance to get the big money.


Since I didn't have the live feeds and since they never showed any type of romantic connection between Xmas and Paul on the televised episodes, was there a romantic connection between Paul and Xmas?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> of course not, they were in an alliance with paul...


Obviously, it's just my gut reaction that I don't think they'd have been as bitter. ALL of the jury members, but Cody were in an alliance with Paul. Raven/Matt were obviously not bitter and voted for Paul. Alex/Josh were bitter and didn't. Elena/Mark were sorta in an alliance so I'm not sure how to count them.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Since I didn't have the live feeds and since they never showed any type of romantic connection between Xmas and Paul on the televised episodes, was there a romantic connection between Paul and Xmas?


From the little my wife read on jokers they liked to cuddle towards the end of the summer and seemed to develop a showmance at least towards the end.

A quick google search turns up videos and links that seem to confirm it.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

jcondon said:


> From the little my wife read on jokers they liked to cuddle towards the end of the summer and seemed to develop a showmance at least towards the end.


i never posted on the thread, but she's right, they got in a good bit of cuddle time towards the end of the season. josh liked to crawl into bed with them in the last few days...


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i never posted on the thread, but she's right, they got in a good bit of cuddle time towards the end of the season. josh liked to crawl into bed with them in the last few days...


Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse......


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I've had a bit of time to think a bit more about the game and I think Paul's fatal flaw was realizing that Jason and Alex would be the bitter jurists and that Josh and Christmas would have probably had his back at the jury. Right there, that flips the vote in his favor. I think Josh and Christmas realized the game play (and as you saw, Christmas voted for Paul even though she was evicted.


Maybe, but I think he assumed that Josh had p*ssed more people off with his banging of pans and general douchebagery. Turns out the jury was so bitter about how Paul played they voted against him even though the guy sitting next to him didn't deserve to win.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Maybe, but I think he assumed that Josh had p*ssed more people off with his banging of pans and general douchebagery. Turns out the jury was so bitter about how Paul played they voted against him even though the guy sitting next to him didn't deserve to win.


And you have to think at least one of them in jury KNEW Paul put Josh up to the douchebagery. Like I said before the actions are on Josh but Paul wasn't exactly a sweet guy either.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Since I didn't have the live feeds and since they never showed any type of romantic connection between Xmas and Paul on the televised episodes, was there a romantic connection between Paul and Xmas?


On one of the episodes, they showed some clips of her talking in the diary room and maybe to someone else about how she was feeling attracted to Paul.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

not that those particular dr sessions came from the 2 friday night clip episodes, but dr sessions are one reason why i don't totally skip them, because dr sessions sometimes reveal a lot, and they're not shown anywhere else.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

KyleLC said:


> On one of the episodes, they showed some clips of her talking in the diary room and maybe to someone else about how she was feeling attracted to Paul.





NorthAlabama said:


> not that those particular dr sessions came from the 2 friday night clip episodes, but dr sessions are one reason why i don't totally skip them, because dr sessions sometimes reveal a lot, and they're not shown anywhere else.


And I skipped them which is why I completely missed that reference.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Christmas was expecting Paul to win final HOH and take her with him. He wouldn't have, but she thought he would. He had her snowed, too. Josh was an ass but he knew what was going on. He knew he would never win against Christmas (so did Paul) so she was doomed unless she won HOH (unlikely). 
For those who didn't watch feeds/read updates/Etc, Christmas admitted several times to having a thing for Paul, and they got very close. Josh was constantly referring to himself as a third wheel. I think he knew he would never get her vote. 

Because she had the hots for Paul.

FWIW, I think Paul knew it and totally played her, as he has a girlfriend that he mentioned to Josh (he kept telling him not to say the third wheel stuff or his girlfriend would get the wrong idea). If I were his girlfriend watching, I would get the wrong idea without any help.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Christmas was expecting Paul to win final HOH and take her with him. He wouldn't have, but she thought he would. He had her snowed, too. Josh was an ass but he knew what was going on. He knew he would never win against Christmas (so did Paul) so she was doomed unless she won HOH (unlikely).
> For those who didn't watch feeds/read updates/Etc, Christmas admitted several times to having a thing for Paul, and they got very close. Josh was constantly referring to himself as a third wheel. I think he knew he would never get her vote.
> 
> Because she had the hots for Paul.
> ...


Great explanation, and it explains the whole Paul/Josh/Xmas relationship. From what I could see watching the main episodes, it always seemed that Josh was tight with Xmas, and they were going to be a duo by the end, which is why I was surprised when she said she wouldn't take him and he didn't take her. Which make me think that my thought about him going to the end with them was probably a bad idea since it seemed that they would have voted for him over Jason/Alex. But, they could have turned out to be just as bitter if they didn't go to the finals. It's all hindsight anyway, who really knows?


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

yeah, on the edited TV version they never got into Christmas's relationship with Paul other than they were in an alliance. A lot hits the cutting room floor, never making it to primetime. Now that streaming has it the tipping point, BB is be well suited for daily 30 minutes video recaps released by BB itself.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> yeah, on the edited TV version they never got into Christmas's relationship with Paul other than they were in an alliance. A lot hits the cutting room floor, never making it to primetime. Now that streaming has it the tipping point, BB is be well suited for daily 30 minutes video recaps released by BB itself.


And in this case, it feels that BB missed a huge development that actually affected someone's vote on the jury. As someone who doesn't watch the streaming stuff, I completely missed the point that Xmas had a thing for Paul. My assumption was that she and Josh were in a final 2 alliance. The producers needed to include more scenes of her and Paul snuggling or whatever. Not just a clip show Friday comment that she liked him, or whatever.

I like the idea of a daily recap. Even just a 5 minute recap of the day's events (but, I guess they can't include things like HoH winner or Veto winner or it would ruin the regular broadcasts). I guess they figure it will cut down on their subs for the streaming. Maybe they could even just put that in BBAD before they go to the live stuff.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Those who follow the daily streaming (whether by watching or reading updates) ALWAYS get a more honest view of the players and the season. Anyone following just the show gets the producers edit. A lot of players come off much better than they are in those edits. This season in particular had very generous edits, as virtually every player (with the possible exclusion of Kevin) was reprehensible. There were truly disgusting things said that you would never hear on the show. Americas favorite Cody is a racist and a homophobe. Runner up Jason laughed about wanting to rape Kevin's wife in front of him (as others laughed along). Jessica made anti-Semitic statements. Christmas was an evil ***** lunatic. Alex was nasty. Paul was downright viscous in the things he said to turn people against each other. I could go on - it was horrible. But you didn't see/hear any of that on the show.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

They exactly did the "Daily update" episodes on Big Brother: Over the Top. They were short 5-10 minute episodes that aired I think nightly that gave updates about what went on in the house that day.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Those who follow the daily streaming (whether by watching or reading updates) ALWAYS get a more honest view of the players and the season. Anyone following just the show gets the producers edit. A lot of players come off much better than they are in those edits. This season in particular had very generous edits, as virtually every player (with the possible exclusion of Kevin) was reprehensible. There were truly disgusting things said that you would never hear on the show. Americas favorite Cody is a racist and a homophobe. Runner up Jason laughed about wanting to rape Kevin's wife in front of him (as others laughed along). Jessica made anti-Semitic statements. Christmas was an evil ***** lunatic. Alex was nasty. Paul was downright viscous in the things he said to turn people against each other. I could go on - it was horrible. But you didn't see/hear any of that on the show.


Is the common of all seasons? I've heard about Cody's comments. I get people cooped up and their true selves can come out as they "forget" they are on camera. Obviously the edits we see are not showing the vast majority of what's going on, and I get now how a lot of the people I tended to like are looked at with more scorn by the people who watch the live stuff.

Honestly, I'm not sure how vested in these people I want to be anymore. Between how they actually turn out to be, and the way the producers play fast and loose with rules and the edits, I'm really souring on the whole thing. I still like the drama, and I'll probably still watch, but I'm definitely going look at it all with a much more jaundiced eye. I know in the back of my mind, it's always been this way, the examples of the last couple of seasons on Survivor and BB, are really starting to get me annoyed. I will be more inclined to drop a season or two if I feel that the game or edit we are seeing is not quite how things really were/are.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Those of you who check in on the live streams--- is being a have-not actually anything that matters? It seemed to have been a bigger deal in the old days. For the past few seasons, it seems like they mention it once at the beginning when showing the have-not room and then we never hear about it again. This season, I thought those spikey beds looked terrible, but never heard one comment about them. I think they should play it up more or just get rid of it.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Tracy said:


> Those of you who check in on the live streams--- is being a have-not actually anything that matters? It seemed to have been a bigger deal in the old days. For the past few seasons, it seems like they mention it once at the beginning when showing the have-not room and then we never hear about it again. This season, I thought those spikey beds looked terrible, but never heard one comment about them. I think they should play it up more or just get rid of it.


I watch After Dark and it is problematic if you're a have not because you can't eat anything but slop, can only take cold showers, and have unconformable sleeping conditions. They complained a little about the spikey beds but you could tell they were foam as often you'd see people sit right on them and they'd compress down and they figured out that by layering blankets on top of the bed it wasn't so bad...probably better than the carnival cars last season. I'm not sure why they seem to totally ignore have-not on the broadcast shows.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

rahnbo said:


> I watch After Dark and it is problematic if you're a have not because you can't eat anything but slop, can only take cold showers, and have unconformable sleeping conditions. They complained a little about the spikey beds but you could tell they were foam as often you'd see people sit right on them and they'd compress down and they figured out that by layering blankets on top of the bed it wasn't so bad...probably better than the carnival cars last season. I'm not sure why they seem to totally ignore have-not on the broadcast shows.


I think before the veto came into play, if I remember right, the episode that is used for the veto comp used to be used to show reward/have not competitions. I also think, that now that we see longer HoH comps, that's another night they no longer show the Have not comps. The HoH now bleeds into the Sunday episode. Plus this year they had the temptation comps to deal with.

I agree, if they aren't going to show it, why bother having it?


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Steveknj said:


> I think before the veto came into play, if I remember right, the episode that is used for the veto comp used to be used to show reward/have not competitions. I also think, that now that we see longer HoH comps, that's another night they no longer show the Have not comps. The HoH now bleeds into the Sunday episode. Plus this year they had the temptation comps to deal with.
> 
> I agree, if they aren't going to show it, why bother having it?


That and I think most of the time the HOH nominates the have nots so there isn't even a comp.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I agree, if they aren't going to show it, why bother having it?


Because it stresses the contestants, fraying their nerves and adding to the drama.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> As someone who doesn't watch the streaming stuff, I completely missed the point that Xmas had a thing for Paul.


No, you missed it because you passed on the clip show (which I don't blame you). Producers did lay that out there.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

rahnbo said:


> I watch After Dark and it is problematic if you're a have not because you can't eat anything but slop, can only take cold showers, and have unconformable sleeping conditions. They complained a little about the spikey beds but you could tell they were foam as often you'd see people sit right on them and they'd compress down and they figured out that by layering blankets on top of the bed it wasn't so bad...probably better than the carnival cars last season. *I'm not sure why they seem to totally ignore have-not on the broadcast shows.*


Because after a week or two, short of it having a direct impact on the outcome or causes a major drama outburst, who in the audience wants to see people complain about the living conditions?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

nyny523 said:


> This season in particular had very generous edits, as virtually every player (with the possible exclusion of Kevin) was reprehensible. There were truly disgusting things said that you would never hear on the show. Americas favorite Cody is a racist and a homophobe. Runner up Jason laughed about wanting to rape Kevin's wife in front of him (as others laughed along). Jessica made anti-Semitic statements. Christmas was an evil ***** lunatic. Alex was nasty. Paul was downright viscous in the things he said to turn people against each other. I could go on - it was horrible. But you didn't see/hear any of that on the show.


one common theme among bloggers this season? this was the worst bb cast. ever. several bloggers contemplated retirement, seemed dismayed from the very beginning, and almost all remarked on how difficult it was, not only to blog, but to even care about what happened to these despicable hg's as this season unfolded. the low rumbles of criticism over casting (robyn kass) that have been steadily growing over recent seasons erupted into a full-blown thunderous roar.

the tv ratings were the highest in years.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Squeak said:


> No, you missed it because you passed on the clip show (which I don't blame you). Producers did lay that out there.


Did they make a big deal about it, or was it just something Christmas said in passing?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Squeak said:


> Because after a week or two, short of it having a direct impact on the outcome or causes a major drama outburst, who in the audience wants to see people complain about the living conditions?


It just seems pointless at this point. I'd rather seem where every few weeks they give them different punishments, and in fact they do this from time to time (like having to wear the unitard). After all this show is for the viewers (and advertisers of course), so if there is some part of the game that players are exposed to, they should show it to us or just drop it. It was a pretty big deal the first few seasons (when it was PB&J and then switched to slop).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> one common theme among bloggers this season? this was the worst bb cast. ever. several bloggers contemplated retirement, seemed dismayed from the very beginning, and almost all remarked on how difficult it was, not only to blog, but to even care about what happened to these despicable hg's as this season unfolded. the low rumbles of criticism over casting (robyn kass) that have been steadily growing over recent seasons erupted into a full blown thunderous roar.
> 
> *the tv ratings were the highest in years.*


Which means that CBS will be tempted to do this again, either bring back what they percieve as a popular former player or a bunch of obnoxious hg that will be horrible human beings but cause drama. After all, it appears that's what we want to watch, right? Of course if everyone is nice, and there's little drama, we wouldn't watch either. I guess the point is, as viewers we generaly like heroes and villains, yet, we ended up watching ALL villains. Could it have been because we hoped that someone would turn up decent, or that we mostly wanted to see Paul get his (and we had to wait for the finale to see that)?

I don't know if I can watch another season like this past one (of course come July, I'll be here again).


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Ratings seem to ebb and flow. I think the all star season got some of the lowest ratings. 

And so does casting. BB:OTT had a great cast last fall. They just never know how people will be together until they're all put together and we see what happens.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Did they make a big deal about it, or was it just something Christmas said in passing?


2-3 minute segment, with night vision camera capturing her talking to herself. So not in passing, but enough that it indicates where her head was at.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Squeak said:


> 2-3 minute segment, with night vision camera capturing her talking to herself. So not in passing, but enough that it indicates where her head was at.


Thanks. I wonder why they chose to not play that up more in the mainstream episodes? It was an interesting choice based on how the voting ended up.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Squeak said:


> Because after a week or two, short of it having a direct impact on the outcome or causes a major drama outburst, who in the audience wants to see people complain about the living conditions?


Nobody I guess. I think it is more the fact that it is pointless to do it and not make something more out it. I'd rather see it mean something. For example, to prevent the highly orchestrated comp outcomes we had by Paul this season it would be great if things like have-not were based on who lost the comps. I think some comps did have a have not element but not many. Perhaps make the first two people to drop from a comp or come in last be have nots for an extended period of time, even the rest of the season. We should never see a broken footed person win a foot race again hopefully.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> the tv ratings were the highest in years.





Steveknj said:


> Which means that CBS will be tempted to do this again, either bring back what they perceive as a popular former player ...


What's worse is that not only will they continue to bring back "popular" former players, but they will also continue to rig the game in their favor so they have a better chance of making it far. I fear that Paul making it to the final two combined with the strong ratings this season will end up having a very negative impact on the game in the long run.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

And now for something completely different, but related. Amazing Race casting spoiler:


Spoiler: Amazing Race 30 Casting Spoiler



Cody & Jessica to appear on next season's Amazing Race, which starts filming Oct 1
Big Brother 19's Jessica And Cody Bring Their Showmance To The Amazing Race - CBS.com


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> And now for something completely different, but related. Amazing Race casting spoiler:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Amazing Race 30 Casting Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



This was almost a guarantee, especially once Cody won "America's Favorite Player".


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

In similar news, the sun rose this morning and will set this evening.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

gweempose said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> This was almost a guarantee, especially once Cody won "America's Favorite Player".





Spoiler



That was a guarantee by around week 4, and if you go back through the threads you'll find it speculated and discussed as a no doubter.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That was a guarantee by around week 4, and if you go back through the threads you'll find it speculated and discussed as a no doubter.





Spoiler



I have to say, I'm disappointed in CBS given some of the transphobic comments he made in the house this summer. Some things are more important than ratings, or at least they should be.

'Big Brother 19' contestant upsets fans with transphobic comments


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Why should the casting of a show like this be a spoiler? Do people really value tuning in to the first episode not knowing anything about the contestants? Do people see value in that?


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

hefe said:


> Why should the casting of a show like this be a spoiler? Do people really value tuning in to the first episode not knowing anything about the contestants? Do people see value in that?


A small number of people do, and we're in a Big Brother thread so I figure it's safer to hide something about a different show. As for me, I would not care at all if I knew who was going to be on it as long as it doesn't spoil how well they do.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Thanks. I wonder why they chose to not play that up more in the mainstream episodes? It was an interesting choice based on how the voting ended up.


It was one-sided and only happened toward the end of the season. She was always touchy feely with the other houseguests. When feeds started, it wasn't clear which two were in a showmance out of Mark, Elena, & Christmas. And most of the season, a Christmas/Kevin pairing seemed like it might happen.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

hefe said:


> Why should the casting of a show like this be a spoiler? Do people really value tuning in to the first episode not knowing anything about the contestants? Do people see value in that?


Short answer: yes.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> What's worse is that not only will they continue to bring back "popular" former players, but they will also continue to rig the game in their favor so they have a better chance of making it far. I fear that Paul making it to the final two combined with the strong ratings this season will end up having a very negative impact on the game in the long run.


Agreed. I probably watch more out of habit then having any real interest in these people anymore. Learning what I have about these types of games though the years, and these shows constantly tinkering with format and not usually in a good way (to me the whole temptation thing completely ruined the season, for obvious reasons). I'd love to see either BB or Survivor bring back a "classic" season. Just play by classic rules, no redemption island, or temptations. Lets see how these players play a normal game without monkey wrenches thrown into their game, which usually favor one or more player.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

realityboy said:


> And most of the season, a Christmas/Kevin pairing seemed like it might happen.


Seriously? Christmas and *Kevin*? I am truly baffled by this. He's married with kids and is twice her age.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Funny for a season that was mostly despised, people are still talking about it a week later.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

gweempose said:


> Seriously? Christmas and *Kevin*? I am truly baffled by this. He's married with kids and is twice her age.


Not quite. Christmas is 33 Kevin is 56.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

brianric said:


> Not quite. Christmas is 33 Kevin is 56.


Interesting. I would have guessed she was in her mid to late 20's.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Tracy said:


> Those of you who check in on the live streams--- is being a have-not actually anything that matters? It seemed to have been a bigger deal in the old days. For the past few seasons, it seems like they mention it once at the beginning when showing the have-not room and then we never hear about it again. This season, I thought those spikey beds looked terrible, but never heard one comment about them. I think they should play it up more or just get rid of it.


They also completely ignored that whole 50/50 key thing on the have not room wall. They did it once the first week, then never mentioned it again.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

gweempose said:


> Interesting. I would have guessed she was in her mid to late 20's.


i thought she was pushing 40, and only acted as if she was in her 20's.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> They also completely ignored that whole 50/50 key thing on the have not room wall. They did it once the first week, then never mentioned it again.


but...but...but...pots! and, pans! banging!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm kind of sad to hear Christmas was a b*tch. I liked her. She came off as sweet in the main broadcast.

I am not shocked at all that Cody was a bigot. He was a total a**hole the whole time he was on. I couldn't believe it when he was even in the top 3 for most popular, and was shocked that he actually won.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I'm kind of sad to hear Christmas was a b*tch. I liked her. She came off as sweet in the main broadcast.
> 
> I am not shocked at all the Cody was a bigot. He was a total a**hole the whole time he was on. I couldn't believe it when he was even in the top 3 for most popular, and was shocked that he actually won.


What shocked me even more is he and Jess are going to be in this season Amazing Race.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

brianric said:


> What shocked me even more is he and Jess are going to be in this season Amazing Race.


I don't watch TAR any more so I wont ever have to see them again.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

What's ridiculous is that I can see them bringing Cody back for an "all-stars" season, despite the fact that he did nothing to earn that title.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Seriously? Christmas and *Kevin*? I am truly baffled by this. He's married with kids and is twice her age.


It was actually a pretty big deal earlier in the season before Kevin became a pariah. I'm pretty sure she saw it as innocent flirting (laying with him on bed, calling him her househusband, etc), but he had talks with Jason about falling out of love with his wife and wanting to have sex with Christmas in jury. He also asked Jason if he would have sex in jury with any of the girls, but Jason always shut it down by saying that he was married. After the tide turned against Kevin, Jason told everyone, and Christmas started calling him a creepy old man.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

brianric said:


> What shocked me even more is he and Jess are going to be in this season Amazing Race.


Where have you seen that? I know it's been discussed, but I hadn't heard it was a fact. I think they will do better in that game because it's much more solitary.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I'm kind of sad to hear Christmas was a b*tch. I liked her. She came off as sweet in the main broadcast.
> 
> I am not shocked at all that Cody was a bigot. He was a total a**hole the whole time he was on. I couldn't believe it when he was even in the top 3 for most popular, and was shocked that he actually won.


Really? I thought Christmas came off as a b**** in the broadcast shows as well. As for Cody, as discussed, he won as an anti-Paul vote (I almost typed Hillary!)


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

brianric said:


> What shocked me even more is he and Jess are going to be in this season Amazing Race.





Steveknj said:


> Where have you seen that? I know it's been discussed, but I hadn't heard it was a fact. I think they will do better in that game because it's much more solitary.


It was posted as a spoiler earlier.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

realityboy said:


> It was actually a pretty big deal earlier in the season before Kevin became a pariah. I'm pretty sure she saw it as innocent flirting (laying with him on bed, calling him her househusband, etc), but he had talks with Jason about falling out of love with his wife and wanting to have sex with Christmas in jury. He also asked Jason if he would have sex in jury with any of the girls, but Jason always shut it down by saying that he was married. After the tide turned against Kevin, Jason told everyone, and Christmas started calling him a creepy old man.


And I think that's the problem with shows like this for players like Kevin who maybe never watched the show. We've seen lots of flirting and showmances happen as a means to an end, and not for any type of serious romance (obviously there are exceptions). Kevin maybe took it as more than it was. And I guess someone who wears their feelings on their sleeves like Kevin and even Josh can find themselves having real feelings.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Squeak said:


> It was posted as a spoiler earlier.


No longer a spoiler now huh?


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> No longer a spoiler now huh?


Nope


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> They also completely ignored that whole 50/50 key thing on the have not room wall. They did it once the first week, then never mentioned it again.


My speculation is that before the season starts BB producers have twice as many ideas\plans than they can actually inject into the show. They go one direction or another depending how the HGs react, and how the audience react to the HGs.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

nrnoble said:


> My speculation is that before the season starts BB producers have twice as many ideas\plans than they can actually inject into the show. They go one direction or another depending how the HGs react, and how the audience react to the HGs.


They actually did this all season. They just never bothered to show it. Someone went for it almost every week.


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