# Help! About to give up on Tivo Bolt.



## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

Have have Directv Now and Verizon with local channels. As far as I understand neither can be viewed through Tivo Bolt. I don't understand why my TV tuner can read the Verizon unscrambled channels but not Tivo Bolt. Am I misunderstand something? I have basically given up on my Bolt but I sure wish I could make use of it. Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Cephas said:


> Have have Directv Now and Verizon with local channels. As far as I understand neither can be viewed through Tivo Bolt. I don't understand why my TV tuner can read the Verizon unscrambled channels but not Tivo Bolt. Am I misunderstand something? I have basically given up on my Bolt but I sure wish I could make use of it. Any suggestions? Thanks!


I'm not sure what you mean by "Verizon with local channels". Is that an IP based service? If so, then no, you can't view them on the TiVo. If it's regular cable, then with a cable card you could get them.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

They are QAM. Verizon is QAM only. TiVo requires a cable card to map the QAM frequencies to channel numbers and give you guide data. Your tv is using the built in data in the channel which is called PSIP which tells the channel number which is probably of the form 21-1, 21-2, etc. TiVo is built for cable and would use the fios numbers like 521 (i don’t know your market so I can’t give real examples). On the off hand you have an OTA TiVo (you didn’t say),those are different frequencies. Verizon is cable QAM and TiVo OTA are OTA RF frequencies.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TonyD79 said:


> They are QAM. Verizon is QAM only. TiVo requires a cable card to map the QAM frequencies to channel numbers and give you guide data. Your tv is using the built in data in the channel which is called PSIP which tells the channel number which is probably of the form 21-1, 21-2, etc. TiVo is built for cable and would use the fios numbers like 521 (i don't know your market so I can't give real examples). On the off hand you have an OTA TiVo (you didn't say),those are different frequencies. Verizon is cable QAM and TiVo OTA are OTA RF frequencies.


My cable feed has always stripped the PSIP even before encryption. I have two clear QAM channels, one SD and one HD that my televisions will display with their QAM channel numbers. My TV also displays four vsb channels with color bars.

I'll speculate that the channels received by the OP do not match the channel numbers shown by the station or any on-line guide. Someone just forgot to encrypt them. On 11/21 through 11/25 HBO and Cinemax will be on their quarterly "free weekend", which is usually nationwide. A channel scan on a digital TV will find and display those channels.

There is also a slight chance these "local channels" are vsb and can not be tuned by a Series5 or Series6. It would explain whole number channel numbers on the TV.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure others have reported that fios retains the psip data. It does not matter as TiVo wouldn’t recognize it anyway.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Cephas said:


> Have have Directv Now and Verizon with local channels. As far as I understand neither can be viewed through Tivo Bolt. I don't understand why my TV tuner can read the Verizon unscrambled channels but not Tivo Bolt. Am I misunderstand something? I have basically given up on my Bolt but I sure wish I could make use of it. Any suggestions? Thanks!


So, the suggestion is to get a CableCard from Verizon. One costs $5/month and $25 to ship unless you pick it up at your local FIOS store. Tivo needs the CableCard not just for decryption reasons, but also to properly locate your channels and properly assign them to the channels in the Tivo/Roxi guide.

DirecTV Now won't work with the Tivo at all.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I think this is one of the few cases where you can just buy a cable card from eBay and not even bother to pair it.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I have Verizon internet with local channels. I understand I need a cable card for Tivo Bolt to receive the channels through Verizon. However, I am not interested in paying Verizon $5 per month to rent a cable card for channels I can already receive by connecting directly to my TV rather than through Tivo Bolt. If my TV tuner can receive those channels it is disappointing that my Bolt can't. 

Just don't want to pay $5 per month to connect to my Bolt just for the dvr capabilities. Thanks again for your help though.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> Just don't want to pay $5 per month to connect to my Bolt just for the dvr capabilities. Thanks again for your help though.


Before you give up, could you post one station call letters and its channel number?


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Before you give up, could you post one station call letters and its channel number?


My Verzion local channel feed is from Philadelphia, PA. This is with my coax connected directly to my TV.

3-1 KYW-TV which is CBS
6-1 WPVI0 HD which is ABC
10-1 WCAU-DT which is NBC
17-1 WPHL-DT
29-1 WTFX-DT which is FOX


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Cephas said:


> I understand I need a cable card for Tivo Bolt to receive the channels through Verizon. However, I am not interested in paying Verizon $5 per month to rent a cable card


In case you missed this post...


mdavej said:


> I think this is one of the few cases where you can just buy a cable card from eBay and not even bother to pair it.


eBay search for "CableCARD" (no guarantees, but cheap enough to test)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> My Verzion local channel feed is from Philadelphia, PA. This is with my coax connected directly to my TV.
> 
> 3-1 KYW-TV which is CBS
> 6-1 WPVI0 HD which is ABC
> ...


First, I am assuming you have a Bolt and you do not have a cable card. I don't know if it is TE3 or TE4, but either should work. I have TE4. First, with the cable connected to your Bolt, you will need to see if the Bolt will find those channels. In Channel Settings, you will need to perform a cable scan. This will find every QAM channel on your feed. The number is probably going to be over 400. No channels will be checked in your channel list. But if it says zero channels, you can stop now. There is a possibility you will need to repeat Guided Setup and select "install later" for the cable card.

It would be nice if your TV has diagnostics that show the frequency of the channels you want to watch. If it does, please post those frequencies. Then it will be possible to check the right channels in the channel list. If not, finding the clear channels will be harder.

If you get to the point of finding the frequencies or channel numbers, you can set the guide to display "My Channels" and you will have a guide with those 5 channels. I can help with that. Manual recordings can be made also, but it will not have anything but channel number, time & date. It's your choice. I don't know the history of the Bolt or why you have it.

If you buy a cable card from eBay and the Bolt finds it, a channel scan is not possible.
Motorola / ARRIS Multi Stream CableCard MediaCipher M-Card 514517 612572142714 | eBay

WPHL-TV - Wikipedia


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> First, I am assuming you have a Bolt and you do not have a cable card. I don't know if it is TE3 or TE4, but either should work. I have TE4. First, with the cable connected to your Bolt, you will need to see if the Bolt will find those channels. In Channel Settings, you will need to perform a cable scan. This will find every QAM channel on your feed. The number is probably going to be over 400. No channels will be checked in your channel list. But if it says zero channels, you can stop now. There is a possibility you will need to repeat Guided Setup and select "install later" for the cable card.
> 
> It would be nice if your TV has diagnostics that show the frequency of the channels you want to watch. If it does, please post those frequencies. Then it will be possible to check the right channels in the channel list. If not, finding the clear channels will be harder.
> 
> ...


I have this Bolt... Tivo Bolt 500 GB Model: TCD849500. I don't know if that is TE3 or TE4. I bought it so I could cancel my Verizon Fios TV and still have a DVR. I do like the Tivo guide and dvr and still would like to use it. I do not have a cable card but it appears if I want to continue to use my Bolt I either need to connect it to an antenna or get the cable card.

So my current set up is Directv Now which I know I cannot use with the Bolt. I have Verizon Fios Internet with local channels.

I will try what you suggested in the previous post. Thanks a lot.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> I have this Bolt... Tivo Bolt 500 GB Model: TCD849500. I don't know if that is TE3 or TE4. I bought it so I could cancel my Verizon Fios TV and still have a DVR. I do like the Tivo guide and dvr and still would like to use it. I do not have a cable card but it appears if I want to continue to use my Bolt I either need to connect it to an antenna or get the cable card.
> So my current set up is Directv Now which I know I cannot use with the Bolt. I have Verizon Fios Internet with local channels.
> I will try what you suggested in the previous post. Thanks a lot.


If your goal is to have a pleasant guide and/or recording experience, then you will not get it without a cable card or antenna.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Cephas said:


> I have this Bolt... Tivo Bolt 500 GB Model: TCD849500


Are you sure you're not missing a ZERO at the end of the model number? (see here)

Also, do you have All-In/Lifetime service for the BOLT? A TiVo service plan is required to have guide data and most all functions of the DVR.

p.s. TE3 & TE4 are just the different software/UI versions available for the Roamio and BOLT models (and their connected Minis); Premiere and older DVRs are limited to the traditional, TE3 (TiVo Experience 3) UI.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

krkaufman said:


> Are you sure you're not missing a ZERO at the end of the model number? (see here)
> 
> Also, do you have All-In/Lifetime service for the BOLT? A TiVo service plan is required to have guide data and most all functions of the DVR.
> 
> p.s. TE3 & TE4 are just the different software/UI versions available for the Roamio and BOLT models (and their connected Minis); Premiere and older DVRs are limited to the traditional, TE3 (TiVo Experience 3) UI.


I see the model number from the link you gave. Maybe my Tivo is missing the extra 0. I do have the all-in/lifetime service.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Cephas said:


> I see the model number from the link you gave. Maybe my Tivo is missing the extra 0. I do have the all-in/lifetime service.
> View attachment 37590


Apologies. I think the TiVo support page is listing the wrong model number. Surprise.

BOLT OTA 1TB, apparently, should be TCD849000VO. And I suspect somebody just got carried away w/ an extra zero on the 500GB BOLT entry.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

krkaufman said:


> Apologies. I think the TiVo support page is listing the wrong model number. Surprise.
> 
> BOLT OTA 1TB, apparently, should be TCD849000VO. And I suspect somebody just got carried away w/ an extra zero on the 500GB BOLT entry.


Thanks for all your help. I did the cable scan and found 718 channels. I get the following message... Channel not available. You may need CableCARD decoders to view this channel. Contact your cable provider for more information.

At this point I assume I need the cable card from the link you provided in a previous post? Or use an ota antenna.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Cephas said:


> At this point I assume I need the cable card from the link you provided in a previous post? Or use an ota antenna.


Seems a good assessment. The only suggestion would be to try to match the eBay-acquired CableCARD to a known working brand for FiOS, or do a bit of add'l research for a source with better odds of working.

Whether an antenna would work for you is a different matter, depending on what kind of OTA antenna signal you can get at your location. Some good starting resources on that front, to research station availability and the required antenna type:

TVFool.com
antennaweb.org
Channel Master Antenna Selection Guide


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

Thanks again for your time and help.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> Thanks for all your help. I did the cable scan and found 718 channels. I get the following message... Channel not available. You may need CableCARD decoders to view this channel. Contact your cable provider for more information.


On every channel?

Two methods. You get the frequency of the channels from your TV for the channels that work, or

Hit Guide. Option A: Select all channels. Now go down the list and Select each channel until you find the channels that work. Note the channel number. While on the channel move left until you are sitting on the channel number. Hit Select. Choose "Add to Favorites". When you are done, hit "A" on the guide again and select "My Channels". I may have skipped a step. When scrolling down, select "Watch now". Then back to the guide.

Was this Bolt previously use with an antenna? If so, you will need to repeat Guided Setup and select Cable. When asked, choose "Add Cable Card Later".


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> On every channel?
> 
> Two methods. You get the frequency of the channels from your TV for the channels that work, or
> 
> ...


I was finally able to get the channels to view with my Bolt. However, they are not on their correct channel number. For example ABC network is on 6-1 rather than 6 as the guide would show. Also much of the guide does not show any programing therefore I don't guess the dvr functions will work. Anyway at least I got the channels to come through.

I also updated to the lasted firmware or software.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Cephas said:


> I was finally able to get the channels to view with my Bolt. However, they are not on their correct channel number. For example ABC network is on 6-1 rather than 6 as the guide would show. Also much of the guide does not show any programing therefore I don't guess the dvr functions will work. Anyway at least I got the channels to come through.
> 
> I also updated to the lasted firmware or software.


Because you need a CableCARD, the ebay link should be fine, I've run unpaired CableCARDs with Verizon FiOS in the past and you will get your locals and guide data to match, had you said Frontier FiOS it would be a completely different discussion.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> I was finally able to get the channels to view with my Bolt. However, they are not on their correct channel number. For example ABC network is on 6-1 rather than 6 as the guide would show. Also much of the guide does not show any programing therefore I don't guess the dvr functions will work. Anyway at least I got the channels to come through.
> I also updated to the lasted firmware or software.


The guide on your antenna/TV didn't have decimal points? OTA has decimal points, cable cards remove them from cable channels (which can have 1 to 4 decimal points). You are looking to get those five channels. Anymore is just luck. Forget guide programming. Forget guide recording.

WPVI is 6 because it is physically 6 and your cable feed is being nice. My Fox channel is 54, but it comes through on my cable as 5.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

I went ahead and ordered the cableCARD. I will let you all know how it works out. Thanks


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> I went ahead and ordered the cableCARD. I will let you all know how it works out. Thanks


From where did you order it?


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> From where did you order it?


Motorola Multi Stream CableCard Media Cipher M-Card 514517 TiVo Series 3 612572163382 | eBay


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mdavej said:


> I think this is one of the few cases where you can just buy a cable card from eBay and not even bother to pair it.


That did not work when I tried it. Only if the cable card is entered into the Verizon system will it work with FiOS. I got one from eBay last year or 2016 as a test. And it did not work to receive any FiOS channels.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Because you need a CableCARD, the ebay link should be fine, I've run unpaired CableCARDs with Verizon FiOS in the past and you will get your locals and guide data to match, had you said Frontier FiOS it would be a completely different discussion.


But unpaired is different. I've run unpaired cable cards from FiOS in the past with no issues. But those cable cards were also entered in to the Verizon system. The motorola cable card I got from eBay did not work. And I was told that was because the card info was not entered into the FiOS CATV system. And Verizon FiOS would only enter the cable card info into their system from one of their own cable cards.

At least that was the case last year or in 2016 when I got the Motorola cable card from Ebay.

If things have changed then I will need to find that cable card I got from ebay. I would be happy to return one of my two cable cards I rent from FiOS and save $5 a month.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

aaronwt said:


> That did not work when I tried it. Only if the cable card is entered into the Verizon system will it work with FiOS. I got one from eBay last year or 2016 as a test. And it did not work to receive any FiOS channels.


The cableCARD I order should be here by Saturday. I will post an update after I receive the card. I don't have high hopes that it will work but I hope to be wrong. I really want to be able to use the DVR function of the Bolt.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> Thanks for the replies. I have Verizon internet with local channels. I understand I need a cable card for Tivo Bolt to receive the channels through Verizon. However, I am not interested in paying Verizon $5 per month to rent a cable card for channels I can already receive by connecting directly to my TV rather than through Tivo Bolt. If my TV tuner can receive those channels it is disappointing that my Bolt can't.
> Just don't want to pay $5 per month to connect to my Bolt just for the dvr capabilities. Thanks again for your help though.


Remember this? I think we have established your bolt can receive those channels. It won't be pretty. Pretty costs $5 a month.

I give it 99% that it won't work. If you are lucky the Bolt will find the card. If it finds the card, but you have no channels, then you will need to remove the card or a cable scan will not work.


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## psychic99 (Aug 21, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Remember this? I think we have established your bolt can receive those channels. It won't be pretty. Pretty costs $5 a month.
> 
> I give it 99% that it won't work. If you are lucky the Bolt will find the card. If it finds the card, but you have no channels, then you will need to remove the card or a cable scan will not work.


I'm sorry it will not likely work because while you can use the QAM or unpaired CC without a proper FiOS card you can't do a guide scan and hence pass that off to the TiVO. I have tried. The only device that I have that works without a CC is the old Silicondust 3CC which you can use without a card. I hook it up to Plex and share w/ the fam as they cut the cord.

Not sure why you have a lifetime Bolt and won't pay the $5 for CC. That is like a coffee a month.

In a few weeks Verizon will be putting on deals, so you may be able to lock in a great deal on TV. Last year during the xmas period I was able to get gig + Preferred + HBO + CC for $110 (even with all fees). This may be higher than your budget, however I would say it is price competitive as gig is $80 alone. I always ask for HBO promo too. They always throw it in.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

psychic99 said:


> I'm sorry it will not likely work because while you can use the QAM or unpaired CC without a proper FiOS card you can't do a guide scan and hence pass that off to the TiVO. I have tried. The only device that I have that works without a CC is the old Silicondust 3CC which you can use without a card. I hook it up to Plex and share w/ the fam as they cut the cord.


I think your quote may be misplaced. Please read the entire (short) thread. In a day or two we will learn that the card from eBay is not going to solve any problems. Honestly, I don't know what "pairing" does. I do know that a channel list (VCT) is loaded. Then the card is provisioned for the channels paid for.


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## psychic99 (Aug 21, 2015)

I read it, the reply put in the quote and I didnt see it. I think on the moto the value of vctid should be non negative. I do recall a day or two of NS errors early on when they gave me an old CC and it wasn't updating the firmware. That was many years ago tho.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> That did not work when I tried it. Only if the cable card is entered into the Verizon system will it work with FiOS. I got one from eBay last year or 2016 as a test. And it did not work to receive any FiOS channels.


You're not alone. It only works if it originally came from Verizon. So it's a game of chance.

Since all those cards were indirectly stolen, you're not always sure which ones came from which system.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

Well, many of you were right. The Motorola CableCARD does not work. While the Tivo recognizes the CC it will not allow any channels to pass through.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> Well, many of you were right. The Motorola CableCARD does not work. While the Tivo recognizes the CC it will not allow any channels to pass through.


You should no longer be able to perform a channel scan, unless there was a software change. The cable card pairing data should look ok:








What is next?


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

You are co


JoeKustra said:


> You should no longer be able to perform a channel scan, unless there was a software change. The cable card pairing data should look ok:
> View attachment 37670
> 
> 
> What is next?


You are correct. I cannot perform a channel scan. What is next? Either be happy with no guide or get the CC through Verizon. Do you use a CC?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> You are correct. I cannot perform a channel scan. What is next? Either be happy with no guide or get the CC through Verizon. Do you use a CC?


Your question seems to imply your goals have changed. I am trying to show you how to get a TiVo to work when it does not have a cable card and still receives clear QAM. I thought you wanted to get a small subset of cable channels and view/record them through the TiVo. If that is still true, step 1 is to find the frequency of those five channels using your TV, or the QAM channel number using your TiVo. My Sony has diagnostics that show the frequency of any channel. Most televisions do not. To find the channels with the TiVo requires tuning to those 700+ channels you posted manually. I have done that with my 400+ channels. It's very boring. But on the bright side you only need to check the primary channel, so the number should be much less. I hope. I can upload an Excel spreadsheet of all my channels if you would like to see how I did it.

What next?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Just spend the $5 a month and get the cable card from FiOS. It will make things much easier.
I currently have two cable cards from FiOS. Back in 2008 in the S3, two tuner days, I had eight cable cards from FiOS. But they only cost $3 a month back then.

Now with two Bolts I still have eight tuners on FiOS, but I only need two cable cards.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Your question seems to imply your goals have changed. I am trying to show you how to get a TiVo to work when it does not have a cable card and still receives clear QAM. I thought you wanted to get a small subset of cable channels and view/record them through the TiVo. If that is still true, step 1 is to find the frequency of those five channels using your TV, or the QAM channel number using your TiVo. My Sony has diagnostics that show the frequency of any channel. Most televisions do not. To find the channels with the TiVo requires tuning to those 700+ channels you posted manually. I have done that with my 400+ channels. It's very boring. But on the bright side you only need to check the primary channel, so the number should be much less. I hope. I can upload an Excel spreadsheet of all my channels if you would like to see how I did it.
> 
> What next?


When I first got the Tivo I wanted to reduce the money I was waisting on Fios/Cable. So I canceled my service, purchased an OTA antenna, hooked it up to my Tivo and went that route for a while. Then I got Directv Now when it first came out. Since I have purchased a second TV and moved the Tivo to it. I was hoping to use the DVR functions on the Tivo. I appreciate the help you gave me in getting the channels but without a guide I still can't take advantage of the DVR functions. It appears I either need to connect it back to the OTA antenna or get the cable card through Verizon to get the guide.


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## Cephas (Nov 10, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Your question seems to imply your goals have changed. I am trying to show you how to get a TiVo to work when it does not have a cable card and still receives clear QAM. I thought you wanted to get a small subset of cable channels and view/record them through the TiVo. If that is still true, step 1 is to find the frequency of those five channels using your TV, or the QAM channel number using your TiVo. My Sony has diagnostics that show the frequency of any channel. Most televisions do not. To find the channels with the TiVo requires tuning to those 700+ channels you posted manually. I have done that with my 400+ channels. It's very boring. But on the bright side you only need to check the primary channel, so the number should be much less. I hope. I can upload an Excel spreadsheet of all my channels if you would like to see how I did it.
> 
> What next?


You have been very helpful. I have the channels now and I can watch them. Next is to go through the channels, mark my favorites, and enjoy. Thanks for all your help.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cephas said:


> You have been very helpful. I have the channels now and I can watch them. Next is to go through the channels, mark my favorites, and enjoy. Thanks for all your help.


Remember the guide has three important options: All Channels, My Channels and Favorites. If you give a thumbs up to your channels, just select Favorites. Good Luck.


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