# 1080p via Component connection?



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Can the Tivo Premiere output 1080p video via the component video ports or does it only do this via HDMI? I know 1080i works but 1080p?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

jcthorne said:


> Can the Tivo Premiere output 1080p video via the component video ports or does it only do this via HDMI? I know 1080i works but 1080p?


Confirmed that only 1080i comes through component. 1080p shows "No Signal" on my Vizio.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

1080p on the Premiere is limited anyway -- it's only 1080p24. My TV doesn't support that.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

Darn you are gonna miss out on all of those 1080p broadcasts. LOL


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't think component even has the bandwidth to support 1080p. I'm pretty sure 1080p requires HDMI 1.3 or higher.

Dan


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think component even has the bandwidth to support 1080p. I'm pretty sure 1080p requires HDMI 1.3 or higher.
> 
> Dan


I have an older Xbox360 and component is my only option on it. You can choose 1080p output and my TV recognizes it as such.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think component even has the bandwidth to support 1080p. I'm pretty sure 1080p requires HDMI 1.3 or higher.
> 
> Dan


Component can do 1080p60 without breaking a sweat, HDMI 1.0 supports 1080p60 as well.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think component even has the bandwidth to support 1080p. I'm pretty sure 1080p requires HDMI 1.3 or higher.
> 
> Dan


Component CAN do 1080p, but most manufacturers and content providers block it. In fact, they're eventually going to be down rezzed to 480i only. ONLY way you're going to get HD is with HDMI.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

kturcotte said:


> Component CAN do 1080p, but most manufacturers and content providers block it. In fact, they're eventually going to be down rezzed to 480i only. ONLY way you're going to get HD is with HDMI.


You mean "ONLY way you're going to get 1080p HD is with HDMI", right?


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

wmcbrine said:


> 1080p on the Premiere is limited anyway -- it's only 1080p24. My TV doesn't support that.


But my set does, and when I tested the various video outputs, the 1080p worked OK via component (but I have no idea where any 1080p 24HZ content might come from - my bluray player does it, but don't know when I'd see it from the tivo).


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

kturcotte said:


> Component CAN do 1080p, but most manufacturers and content providers block it. In fact, they're eventually going to be down rezzed to 480i only. ONLY way you're going to get HD is with HDMI.


Can you post any kind of reference for that? Are you suggesting this is something that the content providers through the cable companies are going to do through the signal in some way? Or are you suggesting that new hardware will come hobbled to prevent an HD signal through component?

I have not heard this and just spent some time looking and didn't see anything that confirms your claim?


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Many films on bluray are 1080p24. I rip and push blu-ray movies to my TivoHD now and plan to do so on the Premiere. The only bluray drive in our house is on my laptop. Have no need for one in the AV closet. Tivo does ALL media distribution and display in our home. 

Was just wanting to know if my projector will get the 1080p24 via the component outputs on the Premiere? The TivoHD sends it as 1080i30 although I will admit it does a pretty fair job at the conversion. My projector has a better processor though and supports 1080p24 natively so would be better. Was looking for an upgrade in the Premiere.

As for studios et al limiting component outputs....yea right. Fat chance that will work in the real world About as good as the 'encryption' on a .tivo file.......


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## Sean D. (Jan 5, 2011)

lujan said:


> You mean "ONLY way you're going to get 1080p HD is with HDMI", right?


For those of you who don't already know this...

I think he means the consumer products manufacturers are going to dump component video as a means of delivering high definition video content. (in the next few years)

The component video jacks may be reduced to just _another_ *standard definition* RGB analog resolution format. (480i MAX)

I agree this is likely to happen soon, so content providers can close the current high-definition "*ANALOG HOLE*". (where consumers are free to copy any recorded content via component video connection)

The Hollywood movie studios and the network/cable broadcast television corporations don't want you to have that option anymore. :down:

Piracy is a big problem as far as they are concerned, so any HD content transfered through component video, is a potential avenue they would like to see shut down. (sooner rather than later)

With HD component video inputs (or outputs) they can't really implement a rock solid digital copy protection scheme like they can with HDMI. (the HDCP digital handshake)

I sell Home Theater A/V equipment, and I have noticed the trend is going away from component video (to HDMI) in a big way.

The number of component video inputs on the newer flat panel televisions is dwindling, with every new model that comes into the store.

Component video connections on the new LED, LCD, & Plasma sets are definitely decreasing, while the number of HDMI 1.3 (or 1.4) connections are increasing.

On the *source devices* that actually output the high definition content (BLU-RAY, HD cable boxes, and HD Satellite boxes, etc.), don't be surprised if these devices will eventually have HDMI _only_ outputs. (to view a 720p, 1080i, and 1080p HD video)

So when analog component video connections are eventually reduced to a non-HD video only pathway...

I think it's going become very difficult to freely copy and transfer any HD programming when the manufacturers get their way. (and that will happen unfortunately)

I say that, because of all the moves the content owners are making today.

Recording 'flags' and the HDMI (HDCP) encryption they are using now, is light years ahead of any the anti-piracy measures they have used in the past. (by a mile)

Program (source) digital encryption flags + Video (display) encryption HDCP handshake requirements = bad news for any consumer who prefers to archive their favorite shows to their computer. (and/or eventually burn them to BLU-RAY recordable media discs)

And for all the internet and high-speed PC/MAC connectivity on these advanced source devices like Tivos and flat panel televisions...

Many of these digital connection portals (eSata, IEEE 1394 Firewire, and USB 2.0) are either *content restricted*, or *functionally 'broken'* (severely crippled) by specific downstream hardware and software requirements/limitations. (I believe on purpose)

This is all due to the pressure placed on the manufacturers by the HD content owners. They simply do not want you to have the ability to freely copy many of these HD programs off of the original hard drive. Period.

In fact, it would not surprise me to see all the PC-based software rip/encoding programs becoming utterly pointless in a few years time.

Conventional wisdom suggests that none of these programs will have the ability to transfer any shows off the original unit's hard drive, because of a 100% COPY NEVER status on all 720p and 1080i HD recorded content. (the status of copying/transferring Standard Definition content will probably stay the same)

That's the direction I see this all going...

And were not that far away from that point now. 

So unless you have a friend that's a MIT graduate (with a masters degree in computer software programming), and he can break or 'trick' all these digital video padlocks...

It's going to be a nearly impossible to move your own personal HD recordings around as freely as you can now. (with the same digital bit-for-bit quality)


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Grr.. I have a pretty high end receiver that I purchased not long before HDMI became the standard. I use it in my media room and have everything setup with component cables and optical audio. It works fine and I really hate the idea of (paying $1500) replacing it...


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Sean D. said:


> With HD component video inputs (or outputs) they can't really implement a rock solid digital copy protection scheme like they can with HDMI. (the HDCP digital handshake)


 FYI that not-so rock solid HDCP encryption scheme has already been cracked a while back.


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## Sean D. (Jan 5, 2011)

tomhorsley said:


> But my set does, and when I tested the various video outputs, the 1080p worked OK via component (but I have no idea where any 1080p 24HZ content might come from - my bluray player does it, but don't know when I'd see it from the tivo).


The only source component that would realistically utilize 1080p at 24fps is a Blu-Ray player.

US-based (ATSC) compatible *broadcast television sources* will ONLY transmit a 1080i (interlaced) signal at 60 fields per second. (not 1080p at 24 frames per second)

In _theory_, they could potentially broadcast in 1080p/24 (it's written into the ATSC standards), but no one does at this time.

In fact, no network/cable/satellite content is broadcasting any HD content at 1080p/24, 1080p/30, or 1080p/60.

720p/60 is the highest current (progressive scan) resolution available from Cable or Satellite television providers. (AFAIK)

Blu-ray is the only consumer level video medium that you could have been viewing at that resolution. (unless your Blu-ray player is also a PS3 game console of course!)


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## Sean D. (Jan 5, 2011)

moyekj said:


> FYI that not-so rock solid HDCP encryption scheme has already been cracked a while back.


That's merely one piece of the puzzle...

To actually use that software coding hack (to circumvent the current HDCP digital encryption security), it would require both a software *and* a hardware modifications to all the HDMI connected equipment in the video chain. (IC chip)

That could get rather expensive, and I doubt very many Home Theater enthusiasts would pony up for the high dollar entry fee required. 

This is not very likely to happen given all the time, money, and effort it would take to make everything work properly. (in a closed digital loop among connected devices)

Not to mention the threat of being locked up in federal prison, even if you could figure out a way to successfully implement this... 

The consumer products industry and the HD broadcasters have our heads in a steel vice right now...and they're squeezing it. 

BTW: This is the same reason why you can't upgrade a HDMI 1.1 connected hardware device...to a HDMI 1.3 (or 1.4) device. A simple HDCP software hack won't cut it. The HDCP digital authentication process is too complex and robust to allow a one way security breach (compromise) to bypass it. Any effective security circumvention would require revised HDMI encryption software programming, *and* new encoding/decoding processors on both ends of the two connected devices. (send and recieve)

Who the hell is going to go through all that trouble???


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

moyekj said:


> FYI that not-so rock solid HDCP encryption scheme has already been cracked a while back.


Aside from that, the hardware that uses it is largely cracked in the head . I had a cheapo DVD player with HDMI, but when I used it I found the TV had to be powered on before the DVD player, or it would never output a video signal, and if I switched the TV to another input source (like my computer, to check email while I have the DVD paused), video would never come back after I switched back to the DVD player. It is incompetent implementations like this what drive people to piracy in the first place .


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Sean D. said:


> BTW: This is the same reason why you can't upgrade a HDMI 1.1 connected hardware device...to a HDMI 1.3 (or 1.4) device. A simple HDCP software hack won't cut it. The HDCP digital authentication process is too complex and robust to allow a one way security breach (compromise) to bypass it. Any effective security circumvention would require revised HDMI encryption software programming, *and* new encoding/decoding processors on both ends of the two connected devices. (send and recieve)


Somehow I suspect that in China at this very moment, (where they make all the LCD display technology anyway) there are pirates with a perfectly normal off the shelf LCD TV that has had the LCD display ripped out and replaced with signal capture hardware .


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> Somehow I suspect that in China at this very moment, (where they make all the LCD display technology anyway) there are pirates with a perfectly normal off the shelf LCD TV that has had the LCD display ripped out and replaced with signal capture hardware .


Wouldn't surprise me any.
As far as the analog hole, all it would take is a software update and the component outputs would be fixed at 480i. I think most everything that's HD can receive updates right (Except early Blu-Ray player)?


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

bradleys said:


> Can you post any kind of reference for that? Are you suggesting this is something that the content providers through the cable companies are going to do through the signal in some way? Or are you suggesting that new hardware will come hobbled to prevent an HD signal through component?
> 
> I have not heard this and just spent some time looking and didn't see anything that confirms your claim?


Well, Blu-Ray has the image-degradation tag they could set - a disc with it set forces the player to output 480p max via analog outs. And I think the FCC has allowed "Selective Output" which means cableboxes would be required to downscale to 480p analog outputs on selected programming. (The FCC however has limited the selective output to apply only for 30 days from release OR on retail release, whichever is quicker).

Blu-Ray has stated they would hold off until 2012 or so before applying the tag. For selective output, who knows. I guess the next time your cable company updates the firmware on the cable box.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

They've been talking about downrezzing for years. I'll believe they're actually going to do it when I see it.

But, HDMI-only devices... that seems more likely. (S-video has already met its doom; why not component next?)


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Can you post any kind of reference for that? Are you suggesting this is something that the content providers through the cable companies are going to do through the signal in some way? Or are you suggesting that new hardware will come hobbled to prevent an HD signal through component?
> 
> I have not heard this and just spent some time looking and didn't see anything that confirms your claim?


We're already at the point that most BR players will only upconvert DVDs via HDMI, they are forced to 480p on component.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

You guys do realize that simple, high quality and completely legal HDMI 1.4 in to 1080p component out converters are already on the market? I have a 1.3 version I bought last year specificly to get past some of the pointless handshaking problems with HDMI.

In my case it was connecting my EVO phone to a LCD panel. The converter works perfectly and is very stable. I tried it with my TivoHD and it works there as well. Was about $100 but they are getting cheaper.

The harder the studio's squeeze this market, the more will slip through thier fingers. I'll gladly pay for what I use, but when they disable functionality I paid for either deliberatly or through incompetence, I'll do it another way.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> You guys do realize that simple, high quality and completely legal HDMI 1.4 in to 1080p component out converters are already on the market? I have a 1.3 version I bought last year specificly to get past some of the pointless handshaking problems with HDMI.
> 
> In my case it was connecting my EVO phone to a LCD panel. The converter works perfectly and is very stable. I tried it with my TivoHD and it works there as well. Was about $100 but they are getting cheaper.
> 
> The harder the studio's squeeze this market, the more will slip through thier fingers. I'll gladly pay for what I use, but when they disable functionality I paid for either deliberatly or through incompetence, I'll do it another way.


There isn't anyway to record it though is there? Like to be able to transfer shows to my computer that Time Warner doesn't allow me to. I imagine the required space would be IMMENSE though? lol


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Actually you can record it fine. Its analog out. You would need an encoding video capture card capable of 1080p component input.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100049

as an example capture device.

I have not gone this route yet, just mentioned the converter as I had one that solved my HDMI problem. But yes, you could use it to transfer HD video to your PC as well. The required space would not be all that bad as the capture card encodes to mpeg2 or h.264 in real time.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

That card only does 1080i.

And the HDMI port, if it's licensed HDMI, means it cannot support HDCP.

If you have an HDMI-out only device though, an HDFury2 or HDFury3 will convert an HDMI+HDCP signal into component (1080i/1080p). But if the source is cable, your max output is 1080i anyways, and there's many capture cards that can capture 1080i from component.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I just did a quick search for a capture card. Perhaps we should start a thread specificly to discuss 1080p componenet video capture cards. i for one would be interested in one that can encode h.264 output in real time. Bet it would be expensive though.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

In VideoRedo and other forums the Hauppauge cards are fairly popular for capturing up to 1080i component and encoding to H.264 on the fly with user-configurable quality settings. Also integrates nicely with Mythtv and other PC based DVR solutions and allows you to do things such as automated commercial detection/stripping, etc.
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HD-PVR

I have no personal experience with such capture cards though.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

Analog sunset begins, all the new Blu-ray players will only output HD via HDMI

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/10/analog-sunset-begins-all-the-new-blu-ray-players-will-only-outp/


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I use a Hauppage HD-PVR as part of Windows Media Center 7 here. Works great.

Still beta though.

IR blaster to my cablebox (Canada doesn't have an FCC equivalent with balls, so no CableCARD).


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