# OTA Picture not as Good through Tivo



## rjgibson0066 (Feb 13, 2007)

It's much better (and reliable) with the antenna directly connected to TV.

Any ideas why?


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

rjgibson0066 said:


> It's much better (and reliable) with the antenna directly connected to TV.
> 
> Any ideas why?


The signal is being split. 4 tuners vs. just 1 on the tv.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Some TVs also have separate picture settings for each input so I would check that.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

rjgibson0066 said:


> It's much better *(and reliable) *with the antenna directly connected to TV.
> 
> Any ideas why?


What does "reliable" mean?


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## SrLANGuy (Dec 26, 2001)

jwbelcher said:


> The signal is being split. 4 tuners vs. just 1 on the tv.


I don't believe having 4 tuners has any effect on signal loss or picture quality.


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## rjgibson0066 (Feb 13, 2007)

astrohip said:


> What does "reliable" mean?


I get picture degradation through the Tivo that I wasn't getting with the antenna connected directly to the TV.

I will check the inputs - is there anything specific settings I should look if I change individual inputs?

Also, would a better antenna help?


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## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

That's odd. I saw no difference between connecting my antenna to my TV than to my Tivo. Are you using the same connectors from your antenna to the Tivo that you used when you connected to the TV? Did you change the antenna position or location?


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

rjgibson0066 said:


> I get picture degradation through the Tivo that I wasn't getting with the antenna connected directly to the TV.
> 
> I will check the inputs - is there anything specific settings I should look if I change individual inputs?
> 
> Also, would a better antenna help?


Pick up an amp (PCT are good) to boost the signal before it goes into the Tivo. This will help overcome the signal loss as its split across the TiVo's 4 tuners.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rjgibson0066 said:


> I get picture degradation through the Tivo that I wasn't getting with the antenna connected directly to the TV.
> 
> I will check the inputs - is there anything specific settings I should look if I change individual inputs?
> 
> Also, would a better antenna help?


For free you can verify the signal. The TiVo VCR Diagnostics show signal level and SNR for each tuner. A signal of about 90 and SNR of about 36dB are good. Adding an amp might produce a signal that overloads the tuner. That would be bad. My TV also shows SNR and it is the same as the TiVo and does vary on some channels even though I have cable.


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## rjgibson0066 (Feb 13, 2007)

^ where do you find these diagnostics in Settings?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rjgibson0066 said:


> ^ where do you find these diagnostics in Settings?


I'm on cable, but: Settings & Messages, Account & System Info, DVR Diagnostics. The display starts with tuner 0. Each tuner has Signal Strength and SNR. Some may dispute the accuracy but the only time they have been off for me is when I had two bad tuners. Then the numbers were impossible. Notice also the RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected. These should be zero or close. They are the error counters. Glad to help. There are 25 more threads in the Roamio forum just like this one if you care to search on "OTA Signal Quality" or similar words. There are more opinions than threads for this subject.


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## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

I can understand having more frequent signal dropouts with a suboptimal ota signal but if there is a signal lock shouldn't picture quality be identical other than during the moments when there is signal drop out? I've seen other posts or reviews of antennas with x antenna having a better picture but this doesn't make sense from what I thought I knew about digital ota reception. Am I missing something?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

My TV and a TiVo Roamio Basic have about the same OTA signal quality.

Try using a splitter to connect the TiVo and the TV to the antenna at the same time. Being able to switch between the two fast will make it easier to compare signal quality. In my case, heavy truck traffic at certain times of the of day effects a few channels for both the TV and the TiVo.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

confinoj said:


> I can understand having more frequent signal dropouts with a suboptimal ota signal but if there is a signal lock shouldn't picture quality be identical other than during the moments when there is signal drop out? I've seen other posts or reviews of antennas with x antenna having a better picture but this doesn't make sense from what I thought I knew about digital ota reception. Am I missing something?


Yes if each antenna provides a good/strong signal their shouldn't be any noticeable picture quality difference on the same TV. However putting a TiVo (or any other OTA appliance) into the mix can change how the picture appears on your TV. First the TV likely has separate picture quality setting for each input and second there are some settings on the TiVo that decide what the TiVo is going to do with the picture (pass through as is or process it into 720p, 1080i etc.), which may affect appearance.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I've been down this road so many times I need an EazyPass. I always come to the same conclusion: things are different. Is there a difference between tuner processing and HDMI processing? Probably. Are all televisions the same? Doubtful. Have I seen a difference between the picture when comparing my clear QAM via the tuner compared the output of my Roamio? Yes. It's a Sony TV (as was the one before it) and they can use a "common" settings that make all configurations apply to all inputs. Mine is set that way. I have calibrated the TV and I'm not a professional. But I calibrate with a BD disk. There isn't a calibrations "channel", either on cable or OTA. A rough test is an Opera test, but not really useful. Worse, some of my TV setting are on Auto and I don't know what that does. There are just too many variables. So, we all have our experiences to share and all are valid. But with the many opinions on picture quality, I feel there is no right or perfect answer. I like my TiVo picture. I think, in general, OTA is better than cable but in my case there is nothing I can do about it.

Is the OP right? Probably. Can we figure out why? I don't think so but it can be fun to try.


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## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

I completely agree that there will be differences in regards to processing, picture settings, display device, etc. I think my main point is that other that during periods where there is signal dropout (usually manifesting as pixelation, or audio dropout) picture is full original quality and not reception/antenna related.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Would you be able to illustrate the picture quality difference in two photos?



rjgibson0066 said:


> Also, would a better antenna help?


A so so antenna in a good reception spot is better than
a good antenna in a bad reception spot.

I'd look up where the transmitters are and try to get as close to a window in that direction:
http://www.tvfool.com/

The improvement you should expect by fixing your reception is reduced breaking up/pixeling, also reduced dropouts / freezing.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

confinoj said:


> I completely agree that there will be differences in regards to processing, picture settings, display device, etc. I think my main point is that other that during periods where there is signal dropout (usually manifesting as pixelation, or audio dropout) picture is full original quality and not reception/antenna related.


100% right, and we lack good tools to identify what needs to be done to correct the issue. There are signal diagnostics, but they seem to indicate only the most severe problems. I get "streaking" on CBS, an occasion audio dropout on any channel, and no way to determine what happened. I guess this meets my expectations. I've done my best to get a good experience with the best components I can find. I've tried my best.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

I find the split-4-ways Tivo OTA tuner to be superior to the tuners built-in to any of my Samsung TVs, including the PN64E7000. Fewer drop outs, even during bad weather events, and less compression/bit-starving artifacts.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

ncted said:


> I find the split-4-ways Tivo OTA tuner to be superior to the tuners built-in to any of my Samsung TVs, including the PN64E7000. Fewer drop outs, even during bad weather events, and less compression/bit-starving artifacts.


That's very good to hear. I have a 2008 Samsung 650 series LCD, which is overall a great set but it has a lousy tuner. I decided weeks ago that I would cut the cord later this year, so began playing around with various antennas, with and without a pre-amp, in various locations (attic, closet, beside house, on the roof). Despite the fact that I live in the city, with towers ranging from about 6 to 14 miles away, I could never get all the high-power stations (never mind all the low-power ones) to come in consistently well. Lots of problems with multipath interference. I also have an external USB tuner by EyeTV on my Mac which I also got around '08; when fed the same signal as my Samsung, it has nearly perfect reception on all the high-powered channels.

I ordered a TiVo Roamio OTA this past weekend during the $299 lifetime promo and am hopeful that I'll get good reception with it as I've read it has great tuners which excel at dealing with multipath. I've read that tuners have gotten better in the past decade, so hopefully the Roamio OTA will outperform even the EyeTV tuner. We'll see...


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