# How about a backup applet?



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

It would be very cool to have a built-in applet that would allow a single drive box to do a complete bit-for-bit backup to an externally connected drive.

It's already running some flavor of Linux, it would just have to invoke the "dd" command with preset parameters for the two SATA ports.

Make it 'hidden' with a 'kickstart' command so that there are a very limited number of non-technical people with access to the utility. Make it unavailable for systems that already have two drives running.

And yes, I know it could potentially turn into a support nightmare, but like the original undocumented S3 OLED "Add an external drive with kickstart" command, it could be totally disavowed and unsupported.

I would love to have a way to painlessly back up an internal drive without having to take the box apart, especially now as drives are getting bigger and bigger.

The only real error checking required would be to make sure it was a single drive system, and that the external backup drive was at least as big as the internal drive.

This would be ridiculously simple for TiVo to implement if the desire to do so was there.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> This would be ridiculously simple for TiVo to implement if the desire to do so was there.


I doubt that there is enough demand for this capability to justify the commitment of either the development or support resources.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> I doubt that there is enough demand for this capability to justify the commitment of either the development or support resources.


Perhaps not. No way to really know.

I wonder how many people just walk away from the device when the hard drive fails, cancelling their subscription?

Even those with lifetime service serve a purpose to increase subscriber numbers and thus what TiVo charges for the non-stop endless marketing to which we are now all subjected.

This occurred to me because I was just thinking this morning what a *remarkable *pain in the ass it is to back up a TiVo drive.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Perhaps not. No way to really know.
> 
> I wonder how many people just walk away from the device when the hard drive fails, cancelling their subscription?
> 
> ...


If you had a Venn diagram and two of the circles on it represented the small set of people who would use this app and the equally small set of people who would scrap their TiVo if the hard drive died, I doubt that they would be anywhere near one another, much less intersect.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I'd have to assume there's already some legal/copy-protection prohibition against doing such a thing.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> I'd have to assume there's already some legal/copy-protection prohibition against doing such a thing.


bingo I also think there is people wanting it, but like was said the content providers will not allow tivo do it.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> I'd have to assume there's already some legal/copy-protection prohibition against doing such a thing.


I don't see why there would be. It's not like you can play the shows off a TiVo disk without having it in the *specific *TiVo that recorded them.

A bit-for-bit copy of the drive would only be useful in the original drive's original machine. If you put it into a different TiVo, the *only *option you have is to Clear And Delete everything.

There is no DRM or copy protection issue there at all.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dougdingle said:


> I don't see why there would be. It's not like you can play the shows off a TiVo disk without having it in the *specific *TiVo that recorded them.
> 
> A bit-for-bit copy of the drive would only be useful in the original drive's original machine. If you put it into a different TiVo, the *only *option you have is to Clear And Delete everything.
> 
> There is no DRM or copy protection issue there at all.


Yeah, except we're not talking about logic and reason; we're talking about digital "rights" lawyers.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, except we're not talking about logic and reason; we're talking about digital "rights" lawyers.


It *is * a "rich person's" way of archiving copy-protected content. Of what other real use would this app be, particularly with a Roamio?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> It *is * a "rich person's" way of archiving copy-protected content. Of what other real use would this app be, particularly with a Roamio?


What a strange thing to say. 3TB WD Green drives are selling for $85. This is neither about rich people, nor about archiving.

The real world use would be for doing weekly backups so that when the Roamio's drive fails (all drives eventually fail), I can put the backup drive into it and lose (at most) a week's worth of recordings while having most of the 500 or so shows on the drive available again.

Just because some are too shortsighted to see the value of something like this does not mean it's not useful for others.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Just because someone is so arrogant that he thinks his wants justify the effort doesn't make it so. See, I am just as capable as you are in engaging in an ad hominem.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> Just because someone is so arrogant that he thinks his wants justify the effort doesn't make it so. See, I am just as capable as you are in engaging in an ad hominem.


This list is called "TiVo Suggestion Avenue". Its purpose is for end users to make suggestions. I made a suggestion.

Life is too short to engage with people like you. See ya.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The main reason this will never happen is it's too "techy" and TiVo tries to make everything simple. Plus there could be some legal issues. First off Copy Once content isn't suppose to be copied at all. There are some legal loopholes there, but it's a grey area. There is also the fact that DVRs are intended for "time shifting" and not legally suppose to allow "archiving". By providing a way to back up the drive they are essentially saying that the recordings are permanent and need to be protected rather then temporary content. Again a grey area that might result in a legal challenge.

FYI there is a way to back up unprotected content to a PC (and a couple of NASes) so if you're worried about losing the drive that might be a good way to go. Also you can back up your 1Ps to a PC using kmttg. They're also automatically backed up to TiVos servers and _should_ be restored automatically if you replace the drive, but that feature can be a bit hit and miss.

A couple of things I'd like to see added that I think would mitigate this issue a bit...

1) A way to move protected recordings between TiVos like you can now do with an iOS device. (i.e. transfer and delete)

2) A way to initiate a TiVo to TiVo transfer via the mind interface.

With those features software like kmttg could do a completely automated migration from one TiVo to another, making it easier to upgrade to a new TiVo or use a second TiVo as a backup.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> This list is called "TiVo Suggestion Avenue". Its purpose is for end users to make suggestions. I made a suggestion.
> 
> Life is too short to engage with people like you. See ya.


The feeling is mutual.


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