# Recommended Alternative To TiVo??



## Rebobbecker

Loved my Bolt the week I had it. But TiVo's ethics left a bad taste in my mouth. Sent the unit back.

Can anyone recommend an alternative? I know I'm in a TiVo forum, but I need to ask.

Thanks in advance.


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## Dan203

If you're OTA then there are a few options. (Channel Master, Tablo, etc...) If you're cable then there really isn't an alternative. There are a couple of PC based CableCARD tuners, but MS discontinued Media Center so there is nothing left to record from them. (Silicone Dust is working on thier own DVR, but it's not done yet)


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## mdavej

Dan203 said:


> If you're OTA then there are a few options. (Channel Master, Tablo, etc...) If you're cable then there really isn't an alternative. There are a couple of PC based CableCARD tuners, but MS discontinued Media Center so there is nothing left to record from them. (Silicone Dust is working on thier own DVR, but it's not done yet)


I came from Windows Media Center before I got Tivo. WMC still works perfectly fine on Win 7/8.1/10 for OTA and cable and will for the foreseeable future. It's still free, so just grab a cheap tuner off ebay and try it for yourself. I still have several in my closet if you're interested.

If you go the Silicon Dust route, there is another 3rd party DVR app in the works that's already far better than the one Silicon Dust is developing.

I'm not sure what Tivo could have done that is so unethical. But if I were you, I would not let ethics govern my DVR choices. Get what works best and is the most cost effective. Right now, that's still Tivo. Save the ethical stances for things more important than TV.


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## beyondthetech

mdavej said:


> I came from Windows Media Center before I got Tivo. WMC still works perfectly fine on Win 7/8.1/10 for OTA and cable and will for the foreseeable future. It's still free, so just grab a cheap tuner off ebay and try it for yourself. I still have several in my closet if you're interested.


Didn't Windows 10 drop WMC? Will the current WMC still work in regards to TV guide data? I thought that would drop as well after development ended.

Really makes you wonder why more developers and manufacturers haven't come up with a more robust solution. Cable operators, then TiVo, and that's it? Mac and Xbox One have solutions on their end, but only for OTA, and we're still waiting for the Xbox One to have the DVR portion enabled.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aero 1

beyondthetech said:


> Didn't Windows 10 drop WMC? Will the current WMC still work in regards to TV guide data? I thought that would drop as well after development ended.
> 
> Really makes you wonder why more developers and manufacturers haven't come up with a more robust solution. Cable operators, then TiVo, and that's it? Mac and Xbox One have solutions on their end, but only for OTA, and we're still waiting for the Xbox One to have the DVR portion enabled.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


microsoft killed the xbox dvr today.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/8/11884622/microsoft-xbox-one-tv-dvr-feature-on-hold


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## Wil

Rebobbecker said:


> Loved my Bolt the week I had it. But TiVo's ethics left a bad taste in my mouth. Sent the unit back.
> 
> Can anyone recommend an alternative? I know I'm in a TiVo forum, but I need to ask..


Believe me, I would love to move away from Tivo and I've looked at all the options mentioned here.

Unfortunately, important to me, there is no other device than the Tivo HD that records ALL cable shows, without exception and allows these recordings to be portable/backed up in original quality on my computer. None. Zero. And that's something I can't do without.

So my wife and the extended family see my old HD Tivo sitting there and say "You can have your Tivo but we can't have ours? " (Roamios). This happens every time I talk about transitioning away from Tivo, my notion being I'll continue to use the Tivo HDs to harvest the crippled shows and transition everybody to something else for watching and routine recording/room-to-room and device-to-device transfers. It's a non-starter.

So we're stuck as a Tivo household as long as Rovi allows.

But even putting completely aside the crippled programs/ Tivo HD benefit, you'll find no alternative to Tivo that is as family-user-friendly.


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## lujan

Dan203 said:


> If you're OTA then there are a few options. (Channel Master, Tablo, etc...) If you're cable then there really isn't an alternative. There are a couple of PC based CableCARD tuners, but MS discontinued Media Center so there is nothing left to record from them. (Silicone Dust is working on thier own DVR, but it's not done yet)


I have OTA only so I may look into something as an alternative when my free year of service expires...


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## Rebobbecker

mdavej said:


> I came from Windows Media Center before I got Tivo. WMC still works perfectly fine on Win 7/8.1/10 for OTA and cable and will for the foreseeable future. It's still free, so just grab a cheap tuner off ebay and try it for yourself. I still have several in my closet if you're interested.
> 
> If you go the Silicon Dust route, there is another 3rd party DVR app in the works that's already far better than the one Silicon Dust is developing.
> 
> I'm not sure what Tivo could have done that is so unethical. But if I were you, I would not let ethics govern my DVR choices. Get what works best and is the most cost effective. Right now, that's still Tivo. Save the ethical stances for things more important than TV.


Thanks for your reply. If you're interested, here's an explanation of TiVo's "unethical" behavior. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=541097


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## mdavej

beyondthetech said:


> Didn't Windows 10 drop WMC? Will the current WMC still work in regards to TV guide data? I thought that would drop as well after development ended.
> 
> Really makes you wonder why more developers and manufacturers haven't come up with a more robust solution. Cable operators, then TiVo, and that's it? Mac and Xbox One have solutions on their end, but only for OTA, and we're still waiting for the Xbox One to have the DVR portion enabled.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hacked version runs fine in Win 10 including full guide data. 3rd party guide works too if MS pulls the plug.

You do have file portability on unprotected content.

If I hadn't gotten such a good deal on my Roamio, I'd still be running WMC.


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## mdavej

Rebobbecker said:


> Thanks for your reply. If you're interested, here's an explanation of TiVo's "unethical" behavior. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=541097


That would definitely put me off too. But I've had similar or worse experiences with all providers. Not excusing TiVo, just saying that's par for the course.

DirecTV once wrongly billed me $700 which took forever to straighten out. I held my nose and signed back up years later because I had no other choice. Worked out fine the next time around.


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## Rebobbecker

mdavej said:


> That would definitely put me off too. But I've had similar or worse experiences with all providers. Not excusing TiVo, just saying that's par for the course.
> 
> DirecTV once wrongly billed me $700 which took forever to straighten out. I held my nose and signed back up years later because I had no other choice. Worked out fine the next time around.


Well, I've decided I'll keep watching the TiVo story (it's purchase and pricing). I loved the Bolt, but I refuse to do business with companies that mistreat their customers. Maybe Rovi will "fix" things. Maybe not. But I'll stay tuned. In the mean time, I'll continue my hate/hate relationship with Comcast. ;-)


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## lujan

Rebobbecker said:


> Well, I've decided I'll keep watching the TiVo story (it's purchase and pricing). I loved the Bolt, but I refuse to do business with companies that mistreat their customers. Maybe Rovi will "fix" things. Maybe not. But I'll stay tuned. In the mean time, I'll continue my hate/hate relationship with Comcast. ;-)


I have no choice with Comcast as they're the only ones I can use that give me the fast internet speeds I need for 4k video watching.


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## NashGuy

If you're looking for an alternative to TiVo to use with cable TV, your choices are currently pretty much confined to just using your cable system's DVR or switching TV service providers, e.g. to satellite, to FiOS, to AT&T Uverse, etc., and using that provider's DVR.

If you're looking for an alternative to TiVo to use with OTA TV, your choices are:
1. Tablo
2. ChannelMaster DVR+
3. forgetting about a DVR and relying instead on Hulu, plus maybe other streaming services like CBS All Access, PBS (free), etc.

There are some other options currently in the works (or rumored to be) for OTA DVR:
1. SiliconDust network tuners + their HomeRun DVR software and service (coming later this year?) + supported streaming device
2. SiliconDust network tuners + Channels DVR software and service (coming later this year?) + Apple TV 4
3. Android TV + attached USB tuner (coming later this year)
4. next-gen Amazon Fire TV with OTA DVR capabilities (rumored as a possibility for this year)
5. Magnavox OTA DVRs (coming this fall -- 3 different models)


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## mdavej

Rebobbecker said:


> ...Maybe Rovi will "fix" things. Maybe not.


Rovi can barely run their own core business (their guide data is far worse than what Tivo currently has). They have no experience interacting with the general public, and have expressed a desire to end Tivo's hardware business altogether. This doesn't sound much like a fix to me. I'm bracing myself for the worst (my old WMC computer is standing by).

If I could tolerate cable company DVRs, I would. But in my market they are antiquated and far more expensive than Tivo . A $150 mistake would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $50/month my cable bill would increase.

I've tried most Tivo alternatives (streaming services, WMC, DVDR, cable/satellite services/DVRs) and found all to be inferior to Tivo in most respects.

If you do ever find the DVR holy grail, please let us know.


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## Rebobbecker

mdavej said:


> A $150 mistake would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $50/month my cable bill would increase.


Wow! My Comcast X1 DVR rents for $10 a month. Are you saying yours is $50 per month???? Or are you saying that you're saving $50 per month by using TiVo OTA? That being said, figuring in the $12.50 per month for TiVo and amortizing the box over 48 months (~$6.20/Mo), I'd save about $20 if OTA; I'd spend an extra ~$10.00 if I stick with Comcast and TiVo combo. I was willing to spend the extra $10 for the Skip feature and the brilliant way the fast-forwarding works. But I was really put off by the *4* customer service reps I dealt with. So......I'll hold off til I either can't stand to wait any longer or see a real bargain.


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## thyname

Rebobbecker said:


> Wow! My Comcast X1 DVR rents for $10 a month. Are you saying yours is $50 per month???? Or are you saying that you're saving $50 per month by using TiVo OTA? That being said, figuring in the $12.50 per month for TiVo and amortizing the box over 48 months (~$6.20/Mo), I'd save about $20 if OTA; I'd spend an extra ~$10.00 if I stick with Comcast and TiVo combo. I was willing to spend the extra $10 for the Skip feature and the brilliant way the fast-forwarding works. But I was really put off by the *4* customer service reps I dealt with. So......I'll hold off til I either can't stand to wait any longer or see a real bargain.


He probably has multiple TV sets. With cable co, you pay fees for each of them. With TiVo you use one Bolt and the Minis

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mdavej

Rebobbecker said:


> Wow! My Comcast X1 DVR rents for $10 a month. Are you saying yours is $50 per month???? Or are you saying that you're saving $50 per month by using TiVo OTA? That being said, figuring in the $12.50 per month for TiVo and amortizing the box over 48 months (~$6.20/Mo), I'd save about $20 if OTA; I'd spend an extra ~$10.00 if I stick with Comcast and TiVo combo. I was willing to spend the extra $10 for the Skip feature and the brilliant way the fast-forwarding works. But I was really put off by the *4* customer service reps I dealt with. So......I'll hold off til I either can't stand to wait any longer or see a real bargain.


Charter sticks it to us on the DVR. It's $13 plus $7 for each box (5 in my case), bringing the total to $48. Just one DVR comes to $20 total. If I went back to satellite, they're closer to $21 for a DVR. If I dropped cable TV altogether, that's about $60-$90 depending on what promo I manage to squeeze out of them. But then I'd have to pay $45 for PS Vue to get most of what I have now on cable.

My Tivo is lifetime, so my monthly cost is $2.50 for the whole house. I still do cable, not OTA. But the Tivo lifetime system I gave to my parents is OTA plus the lowest PS Vue package ($30). They're saving about $80 compared to their similar DirecTV system.


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## aaronwt

Rebobbecker said:


> Wow! My Comcast X1 DVR rents for $10 a month. Are you saying yours is $50 per month???? Or are you saying that you're saving $50 per month by using TiVo OTA? That being said, figuring in the $12.50 per month for TiVo and amortizing the box over 48 months (~$6.20/Mo), I'd save about $20 if OTA; I'd spend an extra ~$10.00 if I stick with Comcast and TiVo combo. I was willing to spend the extra $10 for the Skip feature and the brilliant way the fast-forwarding works. But I was really put off by the *4* customer service reps I dealt with. So......I'll hold off til I either can't stand to wait any longer or see a real bargain.


Around here they also charge some HD Tech fee on top of the X1 rental price. Taking it to $20 a month.


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## jrtroo

Another option to the OP would be an alternative Tivo box instead- a lifetime Roamio from craigslist. 

And, on the other thread, it is pretty clearly an Amazon issue, as the are selling the box and either sent the wrong one or had the wrong description.

Otherwise, not too many options out there...


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## aspexil

A friend of mine is OTA with the ChannelMaster DVR+ latest firmware and it has fits doing a season pass type recording. He has to go in and manually record episodes. At least with my Bolt it does not have that issue so I'm sticking with it.


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## aaronwt

aspexil said:


> A friend of mine is OTA with the ChannelMaster DVR+ latest firmware and it has fits doing a season pass type recording. He has to go in and manually record episodes. At least with my Bolt it does not have that issue so I'm sticking with it.


Having to that would get me to do streaming for everything. There is no way I could go back to recording like in the 20th century. And having to constantly monitor when and what comes on every week.


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## Rebobbecker

OK. Let's say it was an Amazon error. My point is that 3 TiVo CSRs assured me verbally that a credit would be issued. After those conversations I received 2 very terse emails stating that no credit would be forthcoming. I spent 40 years dealing with clients as a small business owner. In that capacity I often dealt with customer issues. If the issue had gray areas I would default to the customer request. A happy client is a repeat client. In this case with TiVo, they had already made a profit on the sale of the box. They would have almost certainly made an additional $450 over the next 4 years for their service. Instead, they misled me THREE times by promising a credit, obviously just trying to get me off the phone and hoping I'd just give up. The fourth CSR attempted to sell me a different unit, lacking the Skip and Quick modes, instead of dealing with the issue. When I said I was only interested in the Bolt, the CSR became very confrontational, implied that I was a jerk, said a credit would be issued and the account would be closed, and hung up. BTW, thus far, no credit has been issued. Whereas, Amazon issued a credit one day after the unit was sent back. 

I know I'm now beating a dead horse, so I won't write anymore of these screeds. It's just disappointing to see a good product being devalued because of poor customer service.


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## lujan

Rebobbecker said:


> OK. Let's say it was an Amazon error. My point is that 3 TiVo CSRs assured me verbally that a credit would be issued. After those conversations I received 2 very terse emails stating that no credit would be forthcoming. I spent 40 years dealing with clients as a small business owner. In that capacity I often dealt with customer issues. If the issue had gray areas I would default to the customer request. A happy client is a repeat client. In this case with TiVo, they had already made a profit on the sale of the box. They would have almost certainly made an additional $450 over the next 4 years for their service. Instead, they misled me THREE times by promising a credit, obviously just trying to get me off the phone and hoping I'd just give up. The fourth CSR attempted to sell me a different unit, lacking the Skip and Quick modes, instead of dealing with the issue. When I said I was only interested in the Bolt, the CSR became very confrontational, implied that I was a jerk, said a credit would be issued and the account would be closed, and hung up. BTW, thus far, no credit has been issued. Whereas, Amazon issued a credit one day after the unit was sent back.
> 
> I know I'm now beating a dead horse, so I won't write anymore of these screeds. It's just disappointing to see a good product being devalued because of poor customer service.


In cases like this I always resort to the credit card company by submitting a dispute and it's resolved eventually in my favor.


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## jrtroo

You say "In this case with TiVo, they had already made a profit on the sale of the box. "

Actually, FYI, Tivo loses money on the sale of the box, and makes it up on the service.


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## Rebobbecker

jrtroo said:


> You say "In this case with TiVo, they had already made a profit on the sale of the box. "
> 
> Actually, FYI, Tivo loses money on the sale of the box, and makes it up on the service.


Well, it's a good thing that they make up the loss with volume.


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## NashGuy

aspexil said:


> A friend of mine is OTA with the ChannelMaster DVR+ latest firmware and it has fits doing a season pass type recording. He has to go in and manually record episodes. At least with my Bolt it does not have that issue so I'm sticking with it.


From what I've gleaned from the CM DVR+ thread over at AVS Forum, that box is a never-ending bugfest. It probably works well most of the time for most of its users but every firmware update seems to introduce real problems for at least some folks while fixing other stuff.


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## tarheelblue32

Rebobbecker said:


> OK. Let's say it was an Amazon error. My point is that 3 TiVo CSRs assured me verbally that a credit would be issued. After those conversations I received 2 very terse emails stating that no credit would be forthcoming. I spent 40 years dealing with clients as a small business owner. In that capacity I often dealt with customer issues. If the issue had gray areas I would default to the customer request. A happy client is a repeat client. In this case with TiVo, they had already made a profit on the sale of the box. They would have almost certainly made an additional $450 over the next 4 years for their service. Instead, they misled me THREE times by promising a credit, obviously just trying to get me off the phone and hoping I'd just give up. The fourth CSR attempted to sell me a different unit, lacking the Skip and Quick modes, instead of dealing with the issue. When I said I was only interested in the Bolt, the CSR became very confrontational, implied that I was a jerk, said a credit would be issued and the account would be closed, and hung up. BTW, thus far, no credit has been issued. Whereas, Amazon issued a credit one day after the unit was sent back.
> 
> I know I'm now beating a dead horse, so I won't write anymore of these screeds. It's just disappointing to see a good product being devalued because of poor customer service.


Sometimes, you just have to put up with bad customer service experiences when there is no viable alternative. I've had very bad customer service experiences with Time Warner Cable over the years, but I really have no viable alternative. A 3Mbps DSL line from AT&T is completely unacceptable. If you want a good CableCARD DVR, then TiVo is basically your only alternative at this point in time. I suggest you just push through the customer service issues until they are resolved.


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## Rebobbecker

tarheelblue32 said:


> Sometimes, you just have to put up with bad customer service experiences when there is no viable alternative. I've had very bad customer service experiences with Time Warner Cable over the years, but I really have no viable alternative. A 3Mbps DSL line from AT&T just isn't a viable alternative. If you want a good CableCARD DVR, then TiVo is basically your only alternative.


I agree that TiVo is a great DVR, but.... (See above)


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## aaronwt

Rebobbecker said:


> OK. Let's say it was an Amazon error. My point is that 3 TiVo CSRs assured me verbally that a credit would be issued. After those conversations I received 2 very terse emails stating that no credit would be forthcoming. I spent 40 years dealing with clients as a small business owner. In that capacity I often dealt with customer issues. If the issue had gray areas I would default to the customer request. A happy client is a repeat client. In this case with TiVo, they had already made a profit on the sale of the box. They would have almost certainly made an additional $450 over the next 4 years for their service. Instead, they misled me THREE times by promising a credit, obviously just trying to get me off the phone and hoping I'd just give up. The fourth CSR attempted to sell me a different unit, lacking the Skip and Quick modes, instead of dealing with the issue. When I said I was only interested in the Bolt, the CSR became very confrontational, implied that I was a jerk, said a credit would be issued and the account would be closed, and hung up. BTW, thus far, no credit has been issued. Whereas, Amazon issued a credit one day after the unit was sent back.
> 
> I know I'm now beating a dead horse, so I won't write anymore of these screeds. It's just disappointing to see a good product being devalued because of poor customer service.


That's just it. TiVo doens't make a profit on the sale of the box.


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## mlcarson

Which 3rd party DVR app are you referring to? 


mdavej said:


> If you go the Silicon Dust route, there is another 3rd party DVR app in the works that's already far better than the one Silicon Dust is developing.


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## mdavej

I forgot the name, but it runs on Apple TV. Shouldn't be hard to find.


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## Aero 1

mdavej said:


> I forgot the name, but it runs on Apple TV. Shouldn't be hard to find.


Channels


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## eki

If you are willing to go the custom route, in addition to my bolt and mini I have 2 TVs each configured to Amazon Fire TV with Kodi installed. Kodi connects over the network to a Windows 7 PC running Kodi configured with PVR/EPG. I have a HDHomeRun Prime with a cable card hooked up to the network supporting 3 tuners that the PVR uses to record/stream the video feed. The only downside is that you don't get copy protected channels like HBO. The Amazon Fire TV can be configured to use HBO Go. 

The guide that comes with Kodi is fairly intuitive but not as sophisticated as the Tivo guide. I've been too lazy to replace them with minis.


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## mlcarson

Thanks. I would have never have found that since I don't follow Apple stuff and channels is just too broad of a term with respect to HTPC stuff. Looks like the Apple TV might actually go somewhere this time if they get this working. They also need to play nice with Amazon so they can get Amazon Video/Prime. This might actually be the WMC replacement that so many desperately want.



Aero 1 said:


> Channels


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## NashGuy

mlcarson said:


> Which 3rd party DVR app are you referring to?


I'm not speaking for him but I do know that there's an Apple TV 4 app called Channels that works with Silicon Dust network tuners.

https://getchannels.com/

They have announced that they are working on adding DVR capabilities to their app and will charge an as-yet-undetermined monthly fee for that feature.

https://community.getchannels.com/t/announcing-channels-dvr/18

Additionally, Silicon Dust network tuners can also be used with Android TV devices. Rather than using their own app as the front-end, you can use Google's native Live Channels app in Android TV. (That app is basically a grid-style UI that presents channels from all available connected sources, whether from an antenna or CableCARD tuner or from various online live streams.) In the next update to Android TV rolling out in a few months, the Live Channels app will gain DVR functionality too.


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## mdavej

Yep, Channels is the one I was thinking of.

I have a couple of Silicon Dust tuners in my closet still. I used them with WMC and various other apps for years. I took them out of service when I got Tivo. They worked fine, but I still think Tivo is by far your best option for live/recorded TV should you ever forgive them.


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## lessd

In answer to your original question what is a *Recommended Alternative To TiVo* my guess would be the cable's co own DVR.


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## foghorn2




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## thyname

lessd said:


> In answer to your original question what is a *Recommended Alternative To TiVo* my guess would be the cable's co own DVR.


Well said and completely agreed.

Other than cable co provided DVR and whole home solution, there is not much available that is even close to TiVo. The TiVo is the flagship though in features and interface, but some cable co and DBS provides are catching up.

I have Directv and Genie HR44 (and a couple of wireless Genie Minis) and TiVo is better, but not by a huge margin. I have heard good thing about Hopper3. I demoed Cox contour6 and it looked good. If your cable co's solution sucks, bad luck...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mlcarson

I always liked the Dish Network's DVR's but hated the cable company's. The problem has always been Internet alternatives. If you have to have cable for Internet then the incremental difference for the TV service is generally less than the price of satellite. For cable TV, Tivo is currently the best option. 

If you can live without any DRM channels, there are home brewed DVR options that can then be supplemented with streaming services to provide a cable alternative at a cheaper price. It just looks like a better system -- either android TV or Apple TV is about a year away. It's hard to justify going the WMC route at this point since it's an abandoned product.


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## lessd

mlcarson said:


> I always liked the Dish Network's DVR's but hated the cable company's. The problem has always been Internet alternatives. If you have to have cable for Internet then the incremental difference for the TV service is generally less than the price of satellite. For cable TV, Tivo is currently the best option.
> 
> If you can live without any DRM channels, there are home brewed DVR options that can then be supplemented with streaming services to provide a cable alternative at a cheaper price. It just looks like a better system -- either android TV or Apple TV is about a year away. It's hard to justify going the WMC route at this point since it's an abandoned product.


Any home brewed DVR would satisfy only a small minority of DVR users and their families TiVo set and forget UI is easy for most people to use (The cable co DVR may come close). The general market is not going to use any home made _rube goldberg _type of DVR.


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## NashGuy

mlcarson said:


> I always liked the Dish Network's DVR's but hated the cable company's. The problem has always been Internet alternatives. If you have to have cable for Internet then the incremental difference for the TV service is generally less than the price of satellite. For cable TV, Tivo is currently the best option.
> 
> If you can live without any DRM channels, there are home brewed DVR options that can then be supplemented with streaming services to provide a cable alternative at a cheaper price. It just looks like a better system -- either android TV or Apple TV is about a year away. It's hard to justify going the WMC route at this point since it's an abandoned product.


I'd say Android TV-based DVR solutions will be available (and out of beta) this year. As for Channels DVR on the Apple TV, harder to say -- you may be right that it won't be here for another year. Both will make use of Silicon Dust network tuners, OTA and CableCARD. It appears that Android TV will also support USB-based OTA tuners.

Back when I had Dish years ago, it was before the Hopper. But the Hopper does look quite slick and even has a built-in Netflix app. I wonder how many folks who think TiVo is the world's best DVR have first-hand experience with the Hopper? Just before coming to TiVo, I had a DirecTV Genie. I'd rate it pretty close behind the TiVo overall. It's a quality DVR.

I agree that cable has an advantage over satellite in that they can package internet in with TV. But that said, when I did all the research a few months back for my parents, it turned out that they wouldn't save anything by switching from their standalone Comcast internet plus Dish TV over to a Comcast X1 Double Play package (although they would get faster internet, which they don't really need or care about given that they're happy with their current 25 Mbps speed.)


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## eric102

foghorn2 said:


>


Good one.

I occasionally record an OTA show or two on DVHS just for grins, still looks great.


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## mdavej

lessd said:


> Any home brewed DVR would satisfy only a small minority of DVR users and their families TiVo set and forget UI is easy for most people to use (The cable co DVR may come close). The general market is not going to use any home made _rube goldberg _type of DVR.


I used WMC for years. It's every bit as easy to use as Tivo. Works fine with a remote. In fact, my wife thought we were still using a Dish DVR for a very long time.

The only tricky bit is the maintenance I occasionally had to do behind the scenes. That part is definitely not for the masses as the market has clearly shown.

WMC is still the only viable home brewed alternative to Tivo. No other solution, Android or otherwise, can handle DRM and provide a decent user interface. It goes without saying that the cable company DVR is an option, always has been. So why even discuss that.


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## HarperVision

eric102 said:


> Good one. I occasionally record an OTA show or two on DVHS just for grins, still looks great.


Wow I almost forgot about D-VHS! I used to love those. I had the 16-9Time setup too. Way cool and cutting edge at the time! 



mdavej said:


> I used WMC for years. It's every bit as easy to use as Tivo. Works fine with a remote. In fact, my wife thought we were still using a Dish DVR for a very long time. The only tricky bit is the maintenance I occasionally had to do behind the scenes. That part is definitely not for the masses as the market has clearly shown. WMC is still the only viable home brewed alternative to Tivo. No other solution, Android or otherwise, can handle DRM and provide a decent user interface. It goes without saying that the cable company DVR is an option, always has been. So why even discuss that.


Agreed. I would still be using WMC with Xbox 360 extenders if it weren't for my family mucking it all up!


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## JTHOJNICKI

As someone who just dumped my whole Dish Hopper setup; all I can say is watch Dish's fees very carefully; they add up. I had 3 Hoppers and 6 Joeys; owned one Hopper and 2 Joeys outright. Dish charged $12 per Hopper and $8 per Joey - whether owned or leased. I was being charged $165/month with Dish 200 programming. Also, AutoHop is nowhere as good as Skipmode - it only works for the 4 major broadcast networks during primetime - after a 1 to 7 day waiting period. This is because Dish is trying to be both a hardware and content provider.

I spent about $1,600 for TiVo equipment, including massive HDD upgrades and All-In service, but will spend only ~$20 per month for the next year for the same content package in a Comcast bundle.

My payback for my TiVo investment is just under a year and I hope to enjoy the savings for many years to come - even when the Comcast bundle goes up $30/month after the second year I'm still over $100 ahead per month.

And I've barely touched the Bolt since I got the Roamio OTA and put in a 6TB WD Red NAS drive. Once the free year of service expires on the Bolt, I'm probably going to sell it.


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## krkaufman

mdavej said:


> WMC still works perfectly fine on Win 7/8.1/10 for OTA and cable and will for the foreseeable future.





mdavej said:


> Hacked version runs fine in Win 10 including full guide data. 3rd party guide works too if MS pulls the plug.





mdavej said:


> Rovi can barely run their own core business (their guide data is far worse than what Tivo currently has). They have no experience interacting with the general public, and have expressed a desire to end Tivo's hardware business altogether. This doesn't sound much like a fix to me. I'm bracing myself for the worst (my old WMC computer is standing by).


Thanks for the nudge. I think I need to put the auctioning of my SiliconDust equipment on hold and shake the cobwebs off my WMC7 setup that I briefly ran last year, as a tech tranquilizer to calm my anxiety over the TiVo/Rovi integration.


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## mlcarson

I'm really hoping that Tivo just comes out with a Bolt-based Mini with more streaming options. I'm happy with my Roamio but would gladly update my Mini's for better streaming options. 

Rovi/Tivo should really look at making the Mini into a universal client with the same type of streaming support that the Roku has. If you want live TV/DVR functionality then you have the actual Tivo for that. You'd think it would be a lot easier to Tivo to improve the Mini than Android/Apple TV to build a better DVR product. Even if the Mini Bolt has nothing more than higher resolution streaming and faster apps, it beats most of the alternatives out there.


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## NashGuy

mlcarson said:


> I'm really hoping that Tivo just comes out with a Bolt-based Mini with more streaming options. I'm happy with my Roamio but would gladly update my Mini's for better streaming options.
> 
> Rovi/Tivo should really look at making the Mini into a universal client with the same type of streaming support that the Roku has. If you want live TV/DVR functionality then you have the actual Tivo for that. You'd think it would be a lot easier to Tivo to improve the Mini than Android/Apple TV to build a better DVR product. Even if the Mini Bolt has nothing more than higher resolution streaming and faster apps, it beats most of the alternatives out there.


Yeah, but the things that Apple and Google (Android) have going for them are big installed user bases and software/app platforms with big developer communities. The DVR solutions coming to Apple TV and Android TV are coming from outside developers that are choosing to create new stuff for those platforms. (Well, in the case of Android TV, Google is also providing a certain amount of OS-level support for DVR functionality too.)

I would love to see TiVo come out with a new box without a hard drive that offered more and better performing streaming apps than what they have now and which could also act as a Mini-type extender. The best way they could do that is take open-source Android and modify the UI, the way that Amazon did in creating Fire TV. If they did it right, it should take developers little to no work to make their existing Fire TV and Android TV apps run on a new Android-powered TiVo box. That said, I think TiVo would still have to get the app owners to agree to placing their apps on the new TiVo box but the easier TiVo can make that for the owners/developers, the better.

Of course, if TiVo did that, then they would be in a situation where their new Mini (or whatever they call it) would run more apps than their main Bolt and Roamio DVRs, which would be a little awkward.


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## lessd

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, but the things that Apple and Google (Android) have going for them are big installed user bases and software/app platforms with big developer communities. The DVR solutions coming to Apple TV and Android TV are coming from outside developers that are choosing to create new stuff for those platforms. (Well, in the case of Android TV, Google is also providing a certain amount of OS-level support for DVR functionality too.)
> 
> I would love to see TiVo come out with a new box without a hard drive that offered more and better performing streaming apps than what they have now and which could also act as a Mini-type extender. The best way they could do that is take open-source Android and modify the UI, the way that Amazon did in creating Fire TV. If they did it right, it should take developers little to no work to make their existing Fire TV and Android TV apps run on a new Android-powered TiVo box. That said, I think TiVo would still have to get the app owners to agree to placing their apps on the new TiVo box but the easier TiVo can make that for the owners/developers, the better.
> 
> Of course, if TiVo did that, then they would be in a situation where their new Mini (or whatever they call it) would run more apps than their main Bolt and Roamio DVRs, which would be a little awkward.


I don't want to give up my home DVR and the ability to record just what I want, now using One-Pass, (and the speed of trick play) it has its problems because of poor guide data, but it the best out there that shows me the new stuff I want to watch under "*my shows*" VOD works if you already know what you want to watch. With IP you can be forced to watch ADs UG


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## NashGuy

lessd said:


> I don't want to give up my home DVR and the ability to record just what I want, now using One-Pass, (and the speed of trick play) it has its problems because of poor guide data, but it the best out there that shows me the new stuff I want to watch under "*my shows*" VOD works if you already know what you want to watch. With IP you can be forced to watch ADs UG


OK, fair enough, although I don't see how anything you said is a response to what I was talking about. I and the previous poster weren't discussing a replacement of TiVo DVRs as they currently exist but simply a new box to replace the current Mini that also offers better streaming to compete against the likes of Roku, Apple TV, etc.


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## lessd

NashGuy said:


> OK, fair enough, although I don't see how anything you said is a response to what I was talking about. I and the previous poster weren't discussing a replacement of TiVo DVRs as they currently exist but simply a new box to replace the current Mini that also offers better streaming to compete against the likes of Roku, Apple TV, etc.


Why just the Mini, additional streaming would great added to the TiVo line,
it's the IP delivery of all TV that I have a problem with, or cloud type DVRs.


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## NashGuy

lessd said:


> Why just the Mini, additional streaming would great added to the TiVo line,
> it's the IP delivery of all TV that I have a problem with, or cloud type DVRs.


Oh, neither I nor mlcarson were proposing an IP-only or cloud DVR box here. My thought is, let's say TiVo takes one last stab at a line of consumer retail products by making a small box that competes against Roku, Apple TV, Android TV, etc. as something that offers a broad range of well-performing streaming apps. Use TiVo's universal search and unified watchlist (OnePass) to tie together all that streaming content from the most popular apps in an easy-to-use way. And, to give the box another selling point for existing TiVo users, make it work as a full-fledged extender for regular TiVo DVRs, effectively making it the replacement for the Mini.

I agree with you that additional/better streaming apps would also be a great thing for existing TiVo DVRs like the Bolt and Roamio but I doubt that's feasible if it means scrapping and rebuilding the underlying system software that those apps run on. If TiVo were going to go to a different underlying platform for their apps (e.g. Android), it's much simpler to do that with a whole new piece of hardware that you're building from scratch. Perhaps if TiVo remains in the retail DVR business and puts out a successor to the Bolt in couple years, it would be built on that new software platform as well.


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## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Oh, neither I nor mlcarson were proposing an IP-only or cloud DVR box here. My thought is, let's say TiVo takes one last stab at a line of consumer retail products by making a small box that competes against Roku, Apple TV, Android TV, etc. as something that offers a broad range of well-performing streaming apps. Use TiVo's universal search and unified watchlist (OnePass) to tie together all that streaming content from the most popular apps in an easy-to-use way. And, to give the box another selling point for existing TiVo users, make it work as a full-fledged extender for regular TiVo DVRs, effectively making it the replacement for the Mini. ............


That sounds awfully familiar. Hmmmmmm.......


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## NashGuy

HarperVision said:


> That sounds awfully familiar. Hmmmmmm.......


Yeah. But without the QAM tuner or built-in software support for MSO services (IPTV, cloud DVR, etc.). And probably with no involvement from Evolution Digital, since they don't do any kind of retail consumer hardware, only hardware they sell to MSOs.


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## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. But without the QAM tuner or built-in software support for MSO services (IPTV, cloud DVR, etc.). And probably with no involvement from Evolution Digital, since they don't do any kind of retail consumer hardware, only hardware they sell to MSOs.


But could be contracted to do so by TiVo.


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## NashGuy

HarperVision said:


> But could be contracted to do so by TiVo.


We'll see. My guess is, if such product comes to market, it will be this year, based on info that TiVo has given on their quarterly calls.


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## Caryn

Rebobbecker said:


> Loved my Bolt the week I had it. But TiVo's ethics left a bad taste in my mouth. Sent the unit back.
> 
> Can anyone recommend an alternative? I know I'm in a TiVo forum, but I need to ask.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## Caryn

Back in April when I got that THING from Comcast called an X1 (crappiest thing I've ever encountered in my life!), I joined here and was shopping for a TiVo.

I too, got yanked around by TiVo and just scared off so when a quick thinking Dish rep have me the deal of a lifetime I dumped Comcast fast. I'd been a Dish customer for 17 years at that point.

Well, Dish turned into idiots so here I am again.

Dish and others rip people off by charging $12 per month plus $6 per month (insurance ) PER Hopper so $36 per month for two of their old beasts AND I care not what they say about their "Sling thing"....It stinks! 

TiVo DID cop a big attitude with the takeover and worry that, like MANY other companies have done, they'll not honor their warranty, fees, service, etc.

Who can forget Sharper Image?

I attempted OTA. GORGEOUS picture and sound BUT some channels, like OWN, suddenly can't be streamed, even next day or a week later.

Plus, moving that stupid antenna all over the place was just ridiculous.

I know precisely what I need but I DO think TiVo is taking advantage of people. Not so much with the monthly fee but with the "all in". 

That's a promise NO company can keep. 

What was done there was that they simply "cooked the books" in a manner of speaking by a cash flush via all in and the inexpensive OTA service included, to make their company highly desirable and we now see their customer service has degraded.

I'm rather shocked that NO one can come up with an alternative.


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## jth tv

Patents and copyrights.


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