# Why do Netflix, etc. play well over 85 Mbps Powerline but TiVo does not?



## mln01 (Jan 10, 2006)

The question says it all. I've used the older 85 Mbps Netgear Powerline gear for several years to connect my TiVos and other equipment. Video streaming has been a secondary priority, but it works well for streaming Netflix and other services on my Roku 3 or on the TiVos. More recently, however, I was trying to use it with a Mini in a location where there is no coax so MoCa isn't an option. 

Programming on the Mini starts to play fine but after a 30 seconds or so the video and audio become choppy. I've now upgraded to 500 Mbps Powerline equipment so this is no longer a problem for me, but I still don't understand why the streaming services worked fine with the older equipment but content from the TiVo did not. Is it simply a matter of different video formats or compression?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mln01 said:


> The question says it all. I've used the older 85 Mbps Netgear Powerline gear for several years to connect my TiVos and other equipment. Video streaming has been a secondary priority, but it works well for streaming Netflix and other services on my Roku 3 or on the TiVos. More recently, however, I was trying to use it with a Mini in a location where there is no coax so MoCa isn't an option.
> 
> Programming on the Mini starts to play fine but after a 30 seconds or so the video and audio become choppy. I've now upgraded to 500 Mbps Powerline equipment so this is no longer a problem for me, but I still don't understand why the streaming services worked fine with the older equipment but content from the TiVo did not. Is it simply a matter of different video formats or compression?


There's room on the screen to add one more option to the network transfer history: TiVo to Mini transfer rate. That would really help.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

mln01 said:


> Is it simply a matter of different video formats or compression?


Pretty much. An average Netflix stream only uses around 3Mbps. A Mini stream uses around 19Mbps. I think Netflix also generally has a longer buffer than the Mini does and also has the ability to reduce the resolution of the stream on the fly if your bandwidth is insufficient, whereas the Mini cannot really do that. Apparently your old powerline adapters just weren't giving you enough bandwidth to maintain the Mini stream.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Internet streaming services were designed to play over an imperfect internet. They pre-buffer, they dynamically change bandwidth, all because the underlying assumption is that the connection may be wonky.

The Mini, designed to run over local networks only, assumes you have a reliable local network. It does minimal buffering, only runs at one bitrate (the recording bitrate), and generally isn't very good at handling anything less than a 100% perfectly reliable 100Mbit* local network. 

* Yes, I know it doesn't really use anywhere near 100Mbits. But you have to draw the line somewhere to avoid splitting hairs..


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Pretty much. An average Netflix stream only uses around 3Mbps. A Mini stream uses around 19Mbps. I think Netflix also generally has a longer buffer than the Mini does and also has the ability to reduce the resolution of the stream on the fly if your bandwidth is insufficient, whereas the Mini cannot really do that. Apparently your old powerline adapters just weren't giving you enough bandwidth to maintain the Mini stream.


You're a little off on the bitrates. Netflix uses between 6-8Mbps for Super HD. Your average cable HD channels is 12-14Mbps. 19.2Mbps is the max allowed for ATSC but most broadcast around 15Mbps and use the remaining bandwidth for SD sub channels. Netflix can go a lot lower because it uses H.264 and because everything is pre-encoded, rather then encoded in realtime, which allows them to run a multi-pass enocde and get better compression.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

it won't work for me either (it connects, but there is so much lag that shows are not watchable).

We even use the power line ethernet through the powerless for our PS4 with no issue.

I still haven't ordered the MoCA, but will need to.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> You're a little off on the bitrates. Netflix uses between 6-8Mbps for Super HD.


I was just using 3Mbps as an estimate for the average Netflix bitrate:

http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa

Obviously, bitrates will vary with Netflix streams, but if you can sustain 3Mbps, you should be able to get a decent Netflix stream.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

DawnW said:


> it won't work for me either (it connects, but there is so much lag that shows are not watchable).
> 
> We even use the power line ethernet through the powerless for our PS4 with no issue.
> 
> I still haven't ordered the MoCA, but will need to.


I use an AV200 powerline adapter for my Wife's Mini and it works fine. I tried buying another matching adapter so I could put a Mini in another room that doesn't have coax, but adding a second one didn't work. So apparently even with a 200Mbps powerline adapter it can barely sustain a single Mini.


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