# TivoToGo soon? 'Tivo Lite' launching tomorrow?



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

From Engadget :

"Oh, and big time bonus for current users: TiVoToGo is on track to finally be re-enabled on Series3 boxes, but there's a fairly huge caveat: SD shows only, HD shows will have to stay safely stowed on the box. Bummer."

Much more on the 'Tivo HD' (commonly referred to as Tivo Lite) there as well, including speculating it launches w/in a week (and maybe even as early as tomorrow), eSATA and phasing out the s2.

*Edited for clarity.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

If true, TTG is a little more than I was expecting (not just restricted to analog from the speculation).


----------



## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

Excellent! When is the next Best Buy 10%-12% coupon weekend?


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

I like the Tivo Lite... TivoToGo is useless without HD support since all I watch is HD programming.

Oh welll. Can't have everything! LOL

TexasGrillChef


----------



## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

dig_duggler said:


> SD shows only, HD shows will have to stay safely stowed on the box.


 One thing that stinks about this, if true, is all the shows that are filmed in 4:3 SD but broadcast at 720p or 1080i. TiVo probably won't be able to distinguish between real 16:9 HD programs and side-barred SD programs, and lock down the side-barred SD programs too. I guess about 95% of the channels I watch are broadcast 24/7 at 720p or 1080i. (I'm over-the-air only.)

All I really want is TiVoComeBack anyways -- and wish TiVo would create an official term for that functionality.


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

The AP story says pre-orders will be taken on tuesday on TiVo's Web site, and units will be in stores by early august.

http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/07/23/whats-happening-11/


----------



## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Would TTG on S3 include MRV to a S2 box?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

minckster said:


> One thing that stinks about this, if true, is all the shows that are filmed in 4:3 SD but broadcast at 720p or 1080i. TiVo probably won't be able to distinguish between real 16:9 HD programs and side-barred SD programs, and lock down the side-barred SD programs too. I guess about 95% of the channels I watch are broadcast 24/7 at 720p or 1080i. (I'm over-the-air only.)
> 
> All I really want is TiVoComeBack anyways -- and wish TiVo would create an official term for that functionality.


I would be surprised if ANY digital content will be allowed to be TTG'd.  (I know they say SD in the article, but I'll believe that when I see it...)


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

More interest in TTG/MRV than the new box.

Hmmmmm... 

See you at midnight.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> More interest in TTG/MRV than the new box.
> 
> Hmmmmm...
> 
> See you at midnight.


I read the thing on engadget and didn't see anything about MRV, I guess it makes sense if they enable TTG there shouldnt be aproblem with MRV

I think the excitement (or interest) is getting back features that were lost in the "upgrade" for an HD BOX...

edit: I'm going to read your link now


----------



## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

TTG with no HD support is useless to me. All the HD I record I record OTA and I should not have to be restricted by CableLabs for that content. That's total crap.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

What's the point of MRV and TTG if it only works with SD programs? Seems like a huge waste to me. I tape a huge percentage of my shows in HD why can't the Tivo just downconvert them to 480p for TTG or MRV and still let us view them?


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Test said:


> I read the thing on engadget and didn't see anything about MRV, I guess it makes sense if they enable TTG there shouldnt be aproblem with MRV
> 
> I think the excitement (or interest) is getting back features that were lost in the "upgrade" for an HD BOX...
> 
> edit: I'm going to read your link now


The link leads you to the AP story which is a more reliable source. It doesn't mention MRV/TTG either. So who knows?

I think there is a substantial pent up demand for TiVo boxes pending the enabling of (S3) transfers, which obviously varies with what is/isn't enabled.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

minckster said:


> One thing that stinks about this, if true, is all the shows that are filmed in 4:3 SD but broadcast at 720p or 1080i. TiVo probably won't be able to distinguish between real 16:9 HD programs and side-barred SD programs, and lock down the side-barred SD programs too. I guess about 95% of the channels I watch are broadcast 24/7 at 720p or 1080i. (I'm over-the-air only.)
> 
> All I really want is TiVoComeBack anyways -- and wish TiVo would create an official term for that functionality.


Minckster.....

The TivoToGo will go on the Copy flag that is sent out over Digital/HD programming. Any SD programing sent out on OTA even though broadcast at 720p or 1080i (upscaled) shouldn't have their Copy flag set.

However, your local stations could possibly set those copy flags. On Analog / Digital cable. SD programs don't have their copy flag set.

Thus the point being that if you use OTA while you should be able to TivoToGo anything and everything you want. Because of the 2-17-09 deadline you might not be able to TivoToGo anything OTA at all.

one of those strange but true things...

TexasGrillChef


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

dig_duggler said:


> From Engadget :
> 
> "Oh, and big time bonus for current users: TiVoToGo is on track to finally be re-enabled on Series3 boxes, but there's a fairly huge caveat: SD shows only, HD shows will have to stay safely stowed on the box. Bummer."
> 
> ...


If it does launch on the tivo web site tomorrow, let's hope they have the ordering snafus that screwed up the S3 launch all sorted out.


----------



## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> What's the point of MRV and TTG if it only works with SD programs? Seems like a huge waste to me. I tape a huge percentage of my shows in HD why can't the Tivo just downconvert them to 480p for TTG or MRV and still let us view them?


Because Tivos have a very small CPU and RAM set; most heavy lifting is done by the encoder/decoder chipsets.
HD MPG2 to SD MPG2 transcoding would likely overwhelm the box. It's slow enough on a "real" Intel PC...

For MRV at least you'd have to either block, or transcode, shows recorded in file formats that other box HW (Series2) would not support. Doubt that transcoding is likely.
However MRV of supported formats could work.
For TTG, the PC and TivoDesktopPlus could (and should) do any needed transcoding, since the destination playback format is unclear (the desktop itself- HD OK; DVD- downgrade to SD; mobile- reencode to 3GP/Mp4 etc..)
- but as others have noted, for both MRV/TTG, the limitation is likely to be "copy" flags not just HD or not.

There are technical limitations for HD transfer, noted above mostly for MRV;
there are "DRM/provider panic" limitations for digital content, which (we hope) would use the "copy once/never" flags instead of just usual provider "ack we can't let HD quality stuff out of the box/into the wild internets" (which actually unfortunately is likely...eg, why can't I even upconvert bought DVDs to 1080i over component, or view HD movies on PC via analog component...)


----------



## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

PS re the TTG (hopefully coming soon) change- anyone noticed that the "allow transfers" box for S3s, on "manage my DVR/preferences", went from the "inactive/non-saved checkbox", to "N/A" now?
Is that recent? You'd think it would go the other way but


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

pkscout said:


> TTG with no HD support is useless to me. All the HD I record I record OTA and I should not have to be restricted by CableLabs for that content. That's total crap.


Exactly. I too only record OTA, which CableLabs shouldn't have any influence over. I guess we'll see how it turns out.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

cgould said:


> PS re the TTG (hopefully coming soon) change- anyone noticed that the "allow transfers" box for S3s, on "manage my DVR/preferences", went from the "inactive/non-saved checkbox", to "N/A" now?
> Is that recent? You'd think it would go the other way but


Good catch - maybe it's a good sign that they are monkeying with the code.

It would stand to reason that the first thing that we're going to see is the software with the restrictions on what can and cannot be transferred to show up first, right?


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

The TivoToGo software is not ready yet. But it's getting closer.

Look for TivoToGo and MRV in the Fall 2007 update, in time for the Christmas selling season.


----------



## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

cgould said:


> For MRV at least you'd have to either block, or transcode, shows recorded in file formats that other box HW (Series2) would not support. Doubt that transcoding is likely.
> However MRV of supported formats could work.
> For TTG, the PC and TivoDesktopPlus could (and should) do any needed transcoding, since the destination playback format is unclear (the desktop itself- HD OK; DVD- downgrade to SD; mobile- reencode to 3GP/Mp4 etc..)
> - but as others have noted, for both MRV/TTG, the limitation is likely to be "copy" flags not just HD or not.


MRV basically just re-wraps the MPEG stream stored on one Tivo and send it to another Tivo, so there is no scaling/sizing/re-encoding of the MPEG stream, right? Is there any info on whether SD digital cable channel's MPEG2 formats are compatible with Tivo's? S3, and S2? The S2DT is using 480x480, I wonder if it can handle what ever MPEG resolution that cable is using for their digital SD channels. Ideally if it's compatible, I'm hoping to Tivo digital cable shows on the S3, and MRV them over to the S2 box.


----------



## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

yunlin12 said:


> MRV basically just re-wraps the MPEG stream stored on one Tivo and send it to another Tivo, so there is no scaling/sizing/re-encoding of the MPEG stream, right? Is there any info on whether SD digital cable channel's MPEG2 formats are compatible with Tivo's? S3, and S2? The S2DT is using 480x480, I wonder if it can handle what ever MPEG resolution that cable is using for their digital SD channels. Ideally if it's compatible, I'm hoping to Tivo digital cable shows on the S3, and MRV them over to the S2 box.


Yes, it should just mostly rewrap, which is why non-S2-compatible file formats (HD) wouldn't work for MRV.
SD digital res and bitrate would vary per channel and per station, and per cable provider; I'm sure many channels are higher than 480x480.

Can you TTCB 720x480 etc higher-res MPG files from PC to the S2DT? If so, you'd think it could handle the S3 SD-digital shows... but this is a guess not technically informed  Other threads had more knowledgeable posts about transport stream vs program and other formatting technicalities.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Most cable providers encode SD at 528x480 or 544x480.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I have played 640x480 and 720x480 content just fine on a Series2. No idea about cable company digital streams.


----------



## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

pkscout said:


> TTG with no HD support is useless to me. All the HD I record I record OTA and I should not have to be restricted by CableLabs for that content. That's total crap.


It's all about what they got approved by Cable Labs. TiVo would definitely push TTG/MRV with HD if they could get past cablelabs regulatory issues.

People have been asking for TiVoToGo via S3s for laptops, pocketpcs, and other devices....The fact that the very expensive S3 couldn't meet at least all the features of S2 was a major issue for a lot folks. The fact that it looks to be providing at least SD support is a huge step....then they can continue to work on cable labs for HD support.

This is a nice step and very much appreciated....I'm seriously thinking about an TiVOHD model now.


----------



## Jazhuis (Aug 30, 2006)

I think I want GoBack more than I want TTG/MRV. I found more use for that than I ever did TTG itself (didn't have more than one S2, so I never tried MRV).


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I'm just glad I have my Tivo S3 recording all the shows that I'm missing by spending all my time reading all these posts.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

CableLabs doesn't control OTA content, but just like we'd expect from TiVo to not want to have to explain to us why some programming is available vis TTG and some is not. For exaple, on the Vista Media center boxs with CableCARDs you can move OTA content to your Zune, but not any CableCARD sourced content. I wish TiVo would do something like this, but I guess they think it will just confuse us.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind it if they down-converted TTG to SD. That way I could watch on my iPhone etc, if I want to watch it in HD, I'll want to watch it on my TiVo anyways, after-all TTG is about portability, for me at least.

MRV is a bigger feature for me, but if they can't stream the signal live and do conflict resolution between multiple boxes it isn't much good.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> The link leads you to the AP story which is a more reliable source. It doesn't mention MRV/TTG either. So who knows?


I take this as an insult. Engadget has just as much credibility, rumors are specifically marked as such.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Engadget is a pile o' crap. They posted bogus nonsense about the iPhone (among other things) and the site is just an amateur blog. It's really sad that a collection of dorks can ruin a large company's stock price.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

Arcady said:


> Engadget is a pile o' crap. They posted bogus nonsense about the iPhone (among other things) and the site is just an amateur blog. It's really sad that a collection of dorks can ruin a large company's stock price.


This is not true, the iPhone rumor was posted as such and the stock hit an all time high last week if you didn't notice.

Not sure how an amateur blog could be ranked #1 by technorati.com.


----------



## stantonl (Jun 22, 2004)

I guess I need to get the old credit card ready for the new Tivo arrival.


----------



## davedonohue (Oct 20, 2004)

I work in tech PR, and I can tell you that several vendors that are household names - not just in these forums but in the real consumer world - consider Engadget to be far more than an "amateur blog".

Objectively speaking, their readership numbers bear that out, and subjectively speaking, I believe their staff mostly knows what they're talking about - and are up front when reporting rumors or taking wild-ass guesses.



bdraw said:


> This is not true, the iPhone rumor was posted as such and the stock hit an all time high last week if you didn't notice.
> 
> Not sure how an amateur blog could be ranked #1 by technorati.com.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Readership is not an indication of quality. Have you seen the numbers for the newspaper tabloids? Or Fox News? Or American Idol? Just because lots of uninformed people read something, it doesn't make it a good source. Posting rumors because of a large fear of getting scooped doesn't make real news. Real news has verified sources. As far as I can tell, that site doesn't even bother to try.

I'm entitled to my own opinion on the quality of my news sources.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

If you consider any site that will post a rumor even when disclosed as such as amateur, than yes, by your definition, we are amateurs, as are most blogs. If you want all your news verified, wait three months to read it in a magazine. 

Technically, we are not amateurs 'cause we get a check each month from AOL.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Your response just reinforces my original point. And I had no idea you worked for them when I first responded.

Just a quick glance at the site gave me this partial headline: "CE-Oh no he didn't!" If I want crap like that, I'll look at the National Enquirer, TYVM.


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

bdraw said:


> I take this as an insult.


But now you see I was being nice.


----------



## mike_camden (Dec 11, 2006)

Bdraw, don't take it personally. I am in the tech field. In my own personal opinion as well and based on discussions with peers at conferences, Engadget is viewed as a quality and well-respected information site; a reader has to know going in that some of what is posted is speculation and rumor (it's usually posted as such). Thanks for all you and your co-workers do; I greatly appreciate the engadget family of sites and consider a couple of them to be on my daily hit list.

However take what I say with a grain of site. I also watch Fox news regularly, so I guess that really puts my opinions in the dumpster with some folks here.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

For the most part I don't take it personally, but at the same time I am defensive.

Not everything in this post ended up being true, but we can't post anymore till tomorrow. Check back on the site at 12:01am, or wait till the morning at your favorite source.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

bdraw said:


> Not everything in this post ended up being true, but we can't post anymore till tomorrow. Check back on the site at 12:01am, or wait till the morning at your favorite source.


12:01am - which time zone?


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Never Never Land timezone.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

Sorry, I forget, it's eastern standard time. There are two timed on engadgethd.com


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Arcady,

While we're waiting for midnight, there's something I always wanted to ask you. I like your avatar, but who's the guy with you?


----------



## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

mike_camden said:


> Engadget is viewed as a quality and well-respected information site


Except when it comes to the iPod and the Zune. 

Or, for that matter, pretty much anything Apple-related.

But enough thread hijacking.


----------



## davedonohue (Oct 20, 2004)

Arcady,

You are entitled to your opinions, but I can tell you that a majority of consumer technology vendors want to have their product launches accurately covered by Engadget, which is why they brief them in advance and why they'll have an accurate story on the launch up at 12:01 ET.

Sometimes vendors need to give an advance to another outlet, like the AP, but it doesn't mean that one is more credible than the other. It just has a different reach (you don't see a lot of Engadget stories carried in local newspapers, for example, but then again many early tech adopters don't go out and buy a new widget thingie based on what they read in their local newspaper).

For the record, I don't have anything to do with TiVo or this announcement or Engadget, but I do have a solid understanding of how PR and publishing work on- and off-line, and industry consensus differs from your opinion.

Which you are definitely entitled to.

And I hate Fox News and tabloids. But I like Stargate: Atlantis.



Arcady said:


> Readership is not an indication of quality. Have you seen the numbers for the newspaper tabloids? Or Fox News? Or American Idol? Just because lots of uninformed people read something, it doesn't make it a good source. Posting rumors because of a large fear of getting scooped doesn't make real news. Real news has verified sources. As far as I can tell, that site doesn't even bother to try.
> 
> I'm entitled to my own opinion on the quality of my news sources.


----------



## doormat (Sep 15, 2004)

Eh, Engadget is good, Ars Technica is my #1 site to read (after the tech website I work for which shall remain nameless because I dont like to whore myself out like that). I read it when someone links it but otherwise I dont have the time to read everything they publish (like their CES coverage, ****ing a!). Speaking of CES, I cant remember if it was them or someone from gizmodo (I think it was gizmodo, coz the jerk did it at MWSF too and Ars pointed it out) who was being a ********* at CES about cutting lines in front of other press and taking pictures of stuff and asking questions. Also the digg spam is atrocious, regular stories that really arent that interesting seem to get dugg up because its a big name site. They cant control it all though.

Back to the S3 Lite stuff, damn me being in EDT until tomorrow, otherwise I'd be reading it at 9 instead of midnight. I'll put my order in though. As long as its not like the S3 where people saw the boxes in store before they got their shipment. I'll review it as soon as I get my hands on it!

Also, the eSata is a good plus. I figured that feature would have been cut from the Lite box. I can replace the internal HD and add external storage.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Add me to the Engadget is fairly reliable crowd (however I started this thread based on their post, so...). When they are waaay off it is usually marked as rumor or comes with a disclaimer (except for that whole hilarious apple stock thing about 2 months ago, which in fairness was retracted pretty quickly).

Engadget + ap story + screens (that seem legit) + mod advertising a pdf going up at midnight seem to indicate at least the 'Tivo HD' is going on sale tomorrow. 

And yeah that digg spam is annoying as all get out...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I never saw the Series 3 in the stores here. Any chance that this will show up at Best Buy in more locations than the Series 3 did?


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I never saw the Series 3 in the stores here. Any chance that this will show up at Best Buy in more locations than the Series 3 did?


It better.


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I never saw the Series 3 in the stores here. Any chance that this will show up at Best Buy in more locations than the Series 3 did?


The S3 was (and is) only available at Best Buy stores with Magnolia Home Theater designation. The Tivo HD will be in all Best Buy stores, with promised availability of sometime between August 5th and 10th.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jrm01 said:


> The S3 was (and is) only available at Best Buy stores with Magnolia Home Theater designation. The Tivo HD will be in all Best Buy stores, with promised availability of sometime between August 5th and 10th.


The Best Buy I go to has the Magnolia section. Maybe I should have asked in there, the people I asked on the floor by the other DVRs and satellite receivers said they didn't carry it. I'm going there tomorrow, I'll have to take a look in the Magnolia area.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Anyone know if this new unit has eSATA support? 20hrs of HD recording (even as a 2nd & 3rd unit) isn't enough for me. So I was wondering if anyone knows if this unit will have a eSATA connection for eSATA drives.

Does anyone think that if it does a 1tb Hitachi Drive would work?

TexasGrillChef


----------



## Tuckrat (Feb 4, 2004)

Check out the specs - it's officially posted on Tivo's website now - home page has been replaced with big page announcing availibility. Specs show ESATA - for future use...

No, MRV and TTG are not available on it... yet. (read the FAQ)


----------



## dvr4me (Jul 10, 2007)

"eSATA will launch deactivated. "We hope to activate it some time later," but when he would not say. Same with the external drive TiVo's obviously going to sell for the thing. "

http://www.engadgethd.com/


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> Arcady,
> 
> While we're waiting for midnight, there's something I always wanted to ask you. I like your avatar, but who's the guy with you?


Um, I'm the guy in that picture. The woman is Amanda Tapping (from _Stargate SG-1_ and starting next year on _Stargate Atlantis_.)


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

dvr4me said:


> "eSATA will launch deactivated. "We hope to activate it some time later," but when he would not say. Same with the external drive TiVo's obviously going to sell for the thing. "


TiVo also told me they're planning for official eSATA support... this fall. Though I couldn't get them to comment on the possibility of a branded drive. Would make sense though on multiple levels (customer experience, support, accessory profit margins).


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

bdraw said:


> If you consider any site that will post a rumor even when disclosed as such as amateur, than yes, by your definition, we are amateurs, as are most blogs. If you want all your news verified, wait three months to read it in a magazine.
> 
> Technically, we are not amateurs 'cause we get a check each month from AOL.


I read engadget daily, but it's not the only thing I read. Anyone that sold off their apple stock SOLELY because of a clearly designated rumor on your site would be more amateur then your actual blogging. The fact that you guys have a q&a up with tivos vp of marketing is a pretty good example of how serious the big companies are taking tech blogs and engadget.

Too bad on the TTG/MRV thing...I guess I'll be waiting till fall see what that update brings to the series3/hd units


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Arcady said:


> Um, I'm the guy in that picture. The woman is Amanda Tapping (from _Stargate SG-1_ and starting next year on _Stargate Atlantis_.)


Hope your Tivo was busy with recording Stargate Atlantis on SciFi channel precisely at the time you were responding to this.. mine was. But you probably have multiple copies of it.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

Disappointing that there is no eSATA support yet, or TTG, but at least it's here.

As for some of your comments, I couldn't agree more, but I don't call the shots.


----------



## Hogues92 (Jan 8, 2006)

jrm01 said:


> The S3 was (and is) only available at Best Buy stores with Magnolia Home Theater designation. The Tivo HD will be in all Best Buy stores, with promised availability of sometime between August 5th and 10th.


I bought mine in the Chicago area at a BB with no Magnolia.


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

It just keeps getting sweeter.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Interview with Jim Denney, the stand out quote to me anyway:

"TiVo is also working to ensure TiVoToGo will not be resolution-restricted, only copy-flag restricted. (Read: TiVoToGo will work for SD and HD content.)"

*Edit - more of an informal Q & A than interview.


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> Interview with Jim Denney, the stand out quote to me anyway:
> 
> "TiVo is also working to ensure TiVoToGo will not be resolution-restricted, only copy-flag restricted. (Read: TiVoToGo will work for SD and HD content.)"


I know TiVo is telling people it is on its way, but I am very pessimistic right now.

They are still working on issues like if HD can be transfered. How long will they mud wrestle over that? I realize they can do software and legal wrangling in parallel, but I can't get my hopes up.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> I know TiVo is telling people it is on its way, but I am very pessimistic right now.
> 
> They are still working on issues like if HD can be transfered. How long will they mud wrestle over that? I realize they can do software and legal wrangling in parallel, but I can't get my hopes up.


I am totally with you. However, it's nice to occasionally get official stances on matters, rather than the endless speculation and rationalization that occurs on the forums. There is a long list of plans of theirs that never came to fruition.


----------



## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

MickeS said:


> The Best Buy I go to has the Magnolia section. Maybe I should have asked in there, the people I asked on the floor by the other DVRs and satellite receivers said they didn't carry it. I'm going there tomorrow, I'll have to take a look in the Magnolia area.


The best buy in cary, nc told my wife back in June, that they were no longer carrying the Series 3 and it was being discontinued. We went to the same best buy yesterday, and what do you know, there were three Series 3 machines on the shelf.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

HDTiVo said:


> I know TiVo is telling people it is on its way, but I am very pessimistic right now.
> 
> They are still working on issues like if HD can be transfered. How long will they mud wrestle over that? I realize they can do software and legal wrangling in parallel, but I can't get my hopes up.


Working on this issue with who? Nobody has any control over OTA HD content.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Working on this issue with who? Nobody has any control over OTA HD content.


They are working with CableLabs so that TTG works with all content, not just OTA. Not sure why TiVo won't just release the feature for OTA, but at the same time it doesn't surprise me.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

bdraw said:


> They are working with CableLabs so that TTG works with all content, not just OTA. Not sure why TiVo won't just release the feature for OTA, but at the same time it doesn't surprise me.


I understand that.

HDTivo keeps saying (or I keep misunderstanding) that it's possible that no HD is going to be allowed. I just don't see where that can be the case.


----------



## ncbagwell (Feb 15, 2005)

Once I see an official announcement on MRV and TTCB, I will be purchasing one of the new units.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> HDTivo keeps saying (or I keep misunderstanding) that it's possible that no HD is going to be allowed. I just don't see where that can be the case.


In an interview with Jim Denny, he specifically states this will not be the case.


> TiVo is also working to ensure TiVoToGo will not be resolution-restricted, only copy-flag restricted.


http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/24/qanda-with-tivos-jim-denney-about-tivo-hd/


----------



## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

yunlin12 said:


> Would TTG on S3 include MRV to a S2 box?


Most likely yes.

It isn't really TTG vs MRV, but transfers altogether, and selective transfers based on the source. I'd bet it will do only analog recordings, and will work fine between Series 2s and other Series 3s, as well as TTG/TTCB.

The point of having even a neutered transfer system is to have some sort of transfers. Ow would you sooner complain they have no transfers at all.


----------



## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

yunlin12 said:


> MRV basically just re-wraps the MPEG stream stored on one Tivo and send it to another Tivo, so there is no scaling/sizing/re-encoding of the MPEG stream, right?


MRV is a copy from one TiVo to the other, no re-wrapping or transcoding is done.



> Is there any info on whether SD digital cable channel's MPEG2 formats are compatible with Tivo's? S3, and S2? The S2DT is using 480x480, I wonder if it can handle what ever MPEG resolution that cable is using for their digital SD channels. Ideally if it's compatible, I'm hoping to Tivo digital cable shows on the S3, and MRV them over to the S2 box.


I am thinking, in the process of recording, the received TS is re-wrapped/packed to be TiVos internal format, which is much the same as it is in the Series 2. Then the tifo format recording could be trasnferred to a Series 2 (copy flags allowing).


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

classicsat said:


> Most likely yes.
> 
> It isn't really TTG vs MRV, but transfers altogether, and selective transfers based on the source. I'd bet it will do only analog recordings, and will work fine between Series 2s and other Series 3s, as well as TTG/TTCB.
> 
> The point of having even a neutered transfer system is to have some sort of transfers. Ow would you sooner complain they have no transfers at all.


Actually on the engadget interview with someone at Tivo it was indicated that when they get TTG working on the new S3 box it will not be restricted based on resolution, etc, only on copy flags in the source material.

So to me this means that you would be able to do all the HD TTG and MRV you want to do as long as the destination device is able to output at the correct resolution and what not.


----------



## Martlet (Jan 26, 2003)

I have a TiVo S2 SA, with only basic cable.

(That's enough from the HD peanut gallery... shush with all the gasping in dismay! I only get CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, and if I pay for it, HBO in HD when they air HD content. So very few shows I watch are available in HD).

While playing around with Roxio's Toast 8 on the Mac (which is the mac version of TiVo Desktop Pro on Windows), I noticed a copy flag on a show.

Obviously, this was SD over analog cable, so why would there be a copy flag on the show? 

Worse yet, it was on a re-run, a really old re-run (some season 1 episode of Friends or Will and Grace or the like, on USA channel IIRC).


So, I wouldn't want to have copy flag protected TTG/MRV. All of your digital content plus random SD content, even some of the SD re-runs of old shows, seems like a very crippled version of TTG/MRV. And if they can put the copy flag on analog SD shows on a whim, how long before they all start putting the copy flag on every show just because they feel like it, and TiVo doesn't pay anything to them?

How long would it even work assuming analog SD doesn't have the copy flag? By the time we get MRV for analog SD content on the S3, won't analog cable be phasing out?


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

bdraw said:


> In an interview with Jim Denny, he specifically states this will not be the case.
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/24/qanda-with-tivos-jim-denney-about-tivo-hd/


I am well aware of that, too.

Which is precicely why I asked HDTivo to clarify, it seems as that he was saying the opposite when he said "They are still working on the issues to see if HD can be transfered".


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Martlet said:


> So, I wouldn't want to have copy flag protected TTG/MRV. All of your digital content plus random SD content, even some of the SD re-runs of old shows, seems like a very crippled version of TTG/MRV. And if they can put the copy flag on analog SD shows on a whim, how long before they all start putting the copy flag on every show just because they feel like it, and TiVo doesn't pay anything to them?


What you saw was probably an error, it happens. They can't put the flags on just any content, it isn't legal to do so. But sometimes someone screws up - usually when that happens an entire channel, even an entire cable system, shows the flag. When it happens on just one show it can even be a glitch in the system.

Nothing is perfect, and mistakes happen.


----------



## showpony (Mar 5, 2005)

bdraw said:


> Disappointing that there is no eSATA support yet, or TTG, but at least it's here.
> 
> As for some of your comments, I couldn't agree more, but I don't call the shots.


Hey don't let these people give engadget sh*T. You do great work there and help us out a ton.

Word from Detroit. Boyeee!


----------



## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

Do we have any indication of when this is happening? This engadget news tidbit is more than a week old, and I'm eager to make use of TTG on my TiVoHD. (Even if it is only limited to SD recordings initially.)


----------



## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Many expect some form of TTG/MRV on the Series 3 platform by the end of the year, along with real eSATA support.


----------



## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

classicsat said:


> Many expect some form of TTG/MRV on the Series 3 platform by the end of the year, along with real eSATA support.


Well that Engadget article seems to indicate that TTG could get reactivated for SD Shows on Series 3 boxes here any day now. Is there evidence to the contrary now?


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

TokyoShoe said:


> Do we have any indication of when this is happening? This engadget news tidbit is more than a week old, and I'm eager to make use of TTG on my TiVoHD. (Even if it is only limited to SD recordings initially.)


TiVo said 'by the end of the year', which probably means closer to the end of the year than now. By comparison they phrased eSATA support as 'this fall', which is a closer time frame. If it was going to drop soon they probably would've said something like 'in August' or 'by September' or something more concrete.


----------



## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

megazone said:


> TiVo said 'by the end of the year', which probably means closer to the end of the year than now. By comparison they phrased eSATA support as 'this fall', which is a closer time frame. If it was going to drop soon they probably would've said something like 'in August' or 'by September' or something more concrete.


I am perplexed as to why they are waiting, I guess. I can understand having to delay the sharing / moving around of HD TV shows because of legalistics and rights. Sure.

But if that's the case, why not just release a "limited version" of TTG for the Series 3, and allow only SD Shows to be shuffled? It seems like they're on an "all or nothing" kick, which seems kinda short sighted.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

This has been discussed before. TiVo feels that the 'all or nothing' approach is better as it is less confusing to the majority of users (Why can I move X but not Y?) and will be less of a support issue. Being able to just have it 'on' is cleaner than having it only work for some content but not others, especially for ADS when users may think a show is 'analog' but it is really digital simulcast, so they don't understand why it is blocked, etc.

I see TiVo's point, not having to deal with various exceptions and partial features is easier to handle. Since they're working towards full support, it is less costly to them to just keep it off until they can launch than to deal with partial support in the interim.


----------

