# Channel lineup staff must have been cut



## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

I always dread turning on the TV and seeing I have a message from TiVo. A month ago I got the message that a channel was deleted. Uh, no, it hasn’t been. This isn’t the first time this has happened which is why I dread seeing a message from TiVo. I have no idea why TiVo deletes a channel without verification. Of course you can’t have a pass work or even record a specific program when there is no guide data. Only way to do it us with a manual recording.
Usually after filing the lineup form it takes about three or four business days for the fix. It has now been almost a month. I emailed them again today with the case number. The response was quick- “we are working on it”.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

UCLABB said:


> I have no idea why TiVo deletes a channel without verification.


they can't, the request must come from the station, either directly, or through an affiliate program - that said, mistakes are often made.


> Usually after filing the lineup form it takes about three or four business days for the fix. It has now been almost a month. I emailed them again today with the case number. The response was quick- "we are working on it".


this is when i begin calling/emailing daily.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

NorthAlabama said:


> they can't, the request must come from the station, either directly, or through an affiliate program - that said, mistakes are often made.
> 
> this is when i begin calling/emailing daily.


Sure they can. I myself have requested changes that have been made. I should have noted I am talking about cable lineups. These are set by the cable company, not stations. Usually the screwup has been getting the wrong feed, East versus West. For some reason cable nets will use a mix of feeds even when logically you'd would think if you're on the west coast, you'd get West feeds, but it's a mix for some reason. I once had every East feed incorrectly changed to West- nearly two dozen channels. Took quite some time to get it straightened out.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

UCLABB said:


> Sure they can. I myself have requested changes that have been made. I should have noted I am talking about cable lineups. These are set by the cable company, not stations. Usually the screwup has been getting the wrong feed, East versus West. For some reason cable nets will use a mix of feeds even when logically you'd would think if you're on the west coast, you'd get West feeds, but it's a mix for some reason. I once had every East feed incorrectly changed to West- nearly two dozen channels. Took quite some time to get it straightened out.


no, they can't. tivo cannot make any changes to a station lineup, broadcast or otherwise, without the stations consent - legally - if it disagrees with their third party verification, but a time shift is not a lineup change, and neither are guide errors made by tivo that need to be corrected. this is why tivo relies on a third party for lineup verification. that doesn't mean that tivo always inputs the data accurately, or that they understand which markets receive which lineups when looking at the data - tivo makes these mistakes all the time.

my biggest gripe is my guide has an incorrect call sign for a local broadcast station - it lists the call sign for the primary station in birmingham which has the same program listings, but a different call sign than our local affiliate. after a back and forth with the station and tivo, it appears that tivo chooses to use the incorrect call sign because it works better with their data system, and since the listings are accurate, and agree with nielsen, there's nothing to be done except to live with it.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

NorthAlabama said:


> no, they can't. tivo cannot make any changes to a station lineup, broadcast or otherwise, without the stations consent - legally - if it disagrees with their third party verification, but a time shift is not a lineup change, and neither are guide errors made by tivo that need to be corrected. this is why tivo relies on a third party for lineup verification. that doesn't mean that tivo always inputs the data accurately, or that they understand which markets receive which lineups when looking at the data - tivo makes these mistakes all the time.
> 
> my biggest gripe is my guide has an incorrect call sign for a local broadcast station - it lists the call sign for the primary station in birmingham which has the same program listings, but a different call sign than our local affiliate. after a back and forth with the station and tivo, it appears that tivo chooses to use the incorrect call sign because it works better with their data system, and since the listings are accurate, and agree with nielsen, there's nothing to be done except to live with it.


I don't think we are communicating here. I'm talking about a cable lineup, you are talking OTA I guess.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

UCLABB said:


> I don't think we are communicating here. I'm talking about a cable lineup, you are talking OTA I guess.


nope, i'm talking both. channel lineup info is proprietary, and the content cannot be altered by tivo without permission, broadcast or cable. when tivo makes a mistake by listing an east coast lineup for a west coast channel, that's tivo channel guide error of the time zone, not a change to the programs in the channel lineup itself - tivo's guide is wrong, not the station's lineup, and that can be changed because it's tivo's mistake.

my complaint was about a broadcast channel, though, you're right - our guide is one letter off on the call sign, and it annoys me every time i see it in the guide.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> Sure they can. I myself have requested changes that have been made.


When you request a change, they verify the info you say is correct before making the change by contacting the local station and/or cable company.

That's why it can take multiple days and why the guide errors form online asks you for cable company contact info.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

NorthAlabama said:


> nope, i'm talking both. channel lineup info is proprietary, and the content cannot be altered by tivo without permission, broadcast or cable. when tivo makes a mistake by listing an east coast lineup for a west coast channel, that's tivo channel guide error of the time zone, not a change to the programs in the channel lineup itself - tivo's guide is wrong, not the station's lineup, and that can be changed because it's tivo's mistake.
> 
> my complaint was about a broadcast channel, though, you're right - our guide is one letter off on the call sign, and it annoys me every time i see it in the guide.


C'mon now. How did the channel get deleted to begin with? You may think it requires permission, but my experience with countless screwups by TiVo tells me differently. Numerous times they've changed to the wrong feed. Numerous times they have deleted a channel that was still in the lineup. Hell, one time I made a mistake on the form when I was requesting multiple feed changes and they changed it to my incorrect feed. I had to submit it again to correct it. Maybe they SHOULD be confirming changes- and that would certainly reduce or eliminate the screwups, but you have to think with so many problems, they aren't doing it. (BTW, I am not talking about program info, that is an entirely different subject.)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Does it really matter much how incorrect guide data occurs? It is what it is.

Regarding how many labor hours TiVo devotes to getting correct data, I think you are doomed to see this get worse and worse. It’s like a pyramid scheme. Funds for this labor have to come from selling lifetime subs (or whatever it’s called now) and those sales are dwindling. That is, unless you are prepared to believe that TiVo has been putting a portion of lifetime sub sales revenue into some kind of trust fund that will keep paying for guide data preparation even after the revenue goes away.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TiVo employees don’t even add/delete channels to the lineup.

The lineups are maintained by a separate company, Rovi.

Rovi was TiVo’s parent company so they’re related but actually TiVo employees don’t edit the guide.

If you see an incorrect guide issue, that issue also extends to other places that use the Rovi guide.

So things like lifetime service fee revenue have NOTHING to do with this.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> TiVo employees don't even add/delete channels to the lineup.
> 
> The lineups are maintained by a separate company, Rovi.
> 
> ...


You are welcome to your opinion, but Rovi can't supply this data without being paid to do it and TiVo is getting less able to supply their portion of Rovi's guide data-related labor costs. It's always about money in the real world of business unless you think Rovi is a charity.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dlfl said:


> You are welcome to your opinion, but Rovi can't supply this data without being paid to do it and TiVo is getting less able to supply their portion of Rovi's guide data-related labor costs. It's always about money in the real world of business unless you think Rovi is a charity.


Rovi has multiple products/services and multiple customers. TiVo is but one customer of one product/service and pays Rovi a contracted rate.

Drawing a direct line like you did from lifetime subs to Rovi "labor" and categorizing TiVo as "supply their portion of ... labor costs" is massively misleading. It's not as if TiVo's consumer DVR revenues are funneled over into Rovi's balance sheet.

TiVo used to purchase guide data from Tribune Media Services before they switched to Rovi (because Rovi purchased them). I guess TMS has gone out of business now since TiVo stopped subsidizing their labor costs?


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> TiVo employees don't even add/delete channels to the lineup.
> 
> The lineups are maintained by a separate company, Rovi.
> 
> ...


This isn't about maintaining the guide. It's the lineup that is sent to one's TiVo. This lineup is sent by TiVo! In my latest case, I was messaged (by TiVo!) that the DIY network has been deleted from my lineup, i.e. Spectrum is no longer carrying it. And, it was deleted from my channel list and even if I re-checked it, no guide data was available. This isn't an Experi/Rovi issue. TVGuide (which gets its data from Experi/Rovi) for my area still shows DYI on Spectrum.
In sum, this *IS is a TiVo* issue and is an issue that is resolved by TiVo with TiVo staff.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> This isn't about maintaining the guide. It's the lineup that is sent to one's TiVo. This lineup is sent by TiVo! In my latest case, I was messaged (by TiVo!) that the DIY network has been deleted from my lineup, i.e. Spectrum is no longer carrying it. And, it was deleted from my channel list and even if I re-checked it, no guide data was available. This isn't an Experi/Rovi issue. TVGuide (which gets its data from Experi/Rovi) for my area still shows DYI on Spectrum.
> In sum, this *IS is a TiVo* issue and is an issue that is resolved by TiVo with TiVo staff.


Sorry, you're wrong.

Rovi maintains the channel list (which channels are in which lineups) and the guide data (what shows are on which times).

Further, if TiVo had removed the channel from your lineup you would not have been able to re-check it. It would have not been there at all. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

When you contact TiVo and say "DIY is removed but it's still part of the lineup" they contact Spectrum to confirm and then contact Rovi to correct the issue.


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## Larsenv (Jun 8, 2020)

I had a problem with the HD versions of the local channels in my dorm not getting any guide data, as they were mapped to numbers not matching the cable provider (Suddenlink, which in my dorm did not require a CableCARD).

I filled out a request with TiVo - eventually after a couple weeks they said they "fixed" it, when they actually just changed a few channels. None of the local channels were fixed...

I was so annoyed with this that I tried using an antenna and mounted it terribly in my dorm - my roommate said "just use Netflix", which still makes me cringe to this day. Why would I replace my TiVo with Netflix? I took off the antenna since the reception sucked.

I never found a solution because I moved out and am not coming back there. (don't go to college during the middle of a pandemic)


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> Sorry, you're wrong.
> 
> Rovi maintains the channel list (which channels are in which lineups) and the guide data (what shows are on which times).
> 
> ...


Look, I know what I saw. I got a message from TiVo that channel 840, DIYHD, was removed from my lineup. I don't think anyone but TiVo can send a message to my box. I tuned to 840 and it was there, still is, but with no title info. I went to channel list and re-checked it, but of course that didn't really change anything.

There is nothing wrong with the Rovi info. You can go to tvguide, info supplied by Rovi, and DYI is listed just fine for Spectrum and my zip code. This is more or less TiVo simply removing it from my guide data, maybe just by my zip code, I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how things work, but TiVo must have a data base of lineups for each zip code that it downloads to one's box when you do a guided setup. My guess is that they removed it from that data base. Why the channel number is still there with no program data, I don't know. 
So, just don't tell me I am wrong. I've played around with TiVo on these same issues many times and have a pretty good feel for how it works, maybe not how it should work.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Oh, I just remembered that a few years ago TiVo made wholesale changes, all wrong, to my lineup one day. It was so bad I was forced to re-run guided setup using a zip code in another city. I used that until tivo got things straightened out for my zip code.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> Look, I know what I saw. I got a message from TiVo that channel 840, DIYHD, was removed from my lineup. I don't think anyone but TiVo can send a message to my box. I tuned to 840 and it was there, still is, but with no title info. I went to channel list and re-checked it, but of course that didn't really change anything.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the Rovi info. You can go to tvguide, info supplied by Rovi, and DYI is listed just fine for Spectrum and my zip code. This is more or less TiVo simply removing it from my guide data, maybe just by my zip code, I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how things work, but TiVo must have a data base of lineups for each zip code that it downloads to one's box when you do a guided setup. My guess is that they removed it from that data base. Why the channel number is still there with no program data, I don't know.
> So, just don't tell me I am wrong. I've played around with TiVo on these same issues many times and have a pretty good feel for how it works, maybe not how it should work.


Just because you got a message on your TiVo doesn't mean TiVo made the change.

LINEUP CHANGES ARE MADE BY ROVI, who is TiVo's exclusive lineup provider.

Furthermore, if the channel was there for you to re-check, it was not removed.

What you are saying doesn't make sense and you clearly don't understand how TiVo's guide data works.

Just because TV Guide's website still had the channel proves nothing. Clearly removing it from your lineup was an error. Maybe TiVo processed the change before it was caught. Maybe the change was only made to their data customers and not web customers (Rovi sells multiple products of different types of data/feeds), maybe there was a processing error on TiVo's end. Lots of possibilities.

But if you think a TiVo employee hit a big delete button next to "DIY" in a massive channel lineup database they control, you're wrong.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> Oh, I just remembered that a few years ago TiVo made wholesale changes, all wrong, to my lineup one day. It was so bad I was forced to re-run guided setup using a zip code in another city. I used that until tivo got things straightened out for my zip code.


When this happens it's usually a cable operator prematurely making changes or applying changes to wrong geographic regions.

ie: they have changes taking place in the future but they push the changes out to the listing companies (Rovi) early.

Again, this would be an issue with Rovi's data which TiVo is simply downstream from.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> When this happens it's usually a cable operator prematurely making changes or applying changes to wrong geographic regions.
> 
> ie: they have changes taking place in the future but they push the changes out to the listing companies (Rovi) early.
> 
> Again, this would be an issue with Rovi's data which TiVo is simply downstream from.


Kinda funny that when I wrongly reported a feed that was wrong to TiVo, they made the change. Why was this not caught by Rovi or Spectrum if TiVo runs it by them?

I and others have been asked by TiVo to supply copies of our cable company's lineup to verify what we are saying. 
I'm not going to argue with you further because that was not my point to begin with. My OP was simply pointing out how long it was taking to correct a very simple problem. I have in the past almost invariably had issues taken care of within five business days.


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## gor88 (Jan 3, 2008)

I actually got a reply after a little over a week for a channel lineup change.

They added WWJX 23.2 in Jackson, MS. However, the person did NOT check Titan TV listings as I described in the ticket. They went based on the old out of date Rovi guide data. 

Since they provided an email for follow up feedback, I sent them an email with inline screencaps of my Titan TV channel lineup and listings. 23.2 changed to SonLife Broadcasting Network. It used to be a SD feed of TCT network. The lineup person also said that SonLife doesn't list 23.2 in their channel list.

What's really bad is that the Jackson, MS channel lineup in tvguide.com, based on Rovi data, has an analog WLBT 3, in addition to the normal WLBT 3.1. WWJX 23.1 is listed twice STILL, but they fixed the TiVo channel lineup to remove the duplicate.

I don't know if they have fewer people in the channel lineup department, but the quality of their work seems to have declined in recent months.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> Kinda funny that when I wrongly reported a feed that was wrong to TiVo, they made the change. Why was this not caught by Rovi or Spectrum if TiVo runs it by them?
> 
> I and others have been asked by TiVo to supply copies of our cable company's lineup to verify what we are saying.
> I'm not going to argue with you further because that was not my point to begin with. My OP was simply pointing out how long it was taking to correct a very simple problem. I have in the past almost invariably had issues taken care of within five business days.


You're finding a correlation where none exists.

"I told TiVo 'x' and then 'x' happened!"

Does not mean that TiVo did 'x' themselves.

"But TiVo themselves sent me a message that said 'x' was done!"

Again, doesn't mean TiVo did it.

TiVo is an intermediary between their customers (you) and their provider (Rovi).


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@cwoody222 regardless of the exact details of how TiVo/Rovi guide data works, common sense indicates that with dwindling TiVo subscription sales, the quality of the data will continue to decline. Providing the guide data to TiVo units costs money beyond any other normal service done by Rovi and where is this money coming from if not from TiVo?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dlfl said:


> @cwoody222 regardless of the exact details of how TiVo/Rovi guide data works, common sense indicates that with dwindling TiVo subscription sales, the quality of the data will continue to decline. Providing the guide data to TiVo units costs money beyond any other normal service done by Rovi and where is this money coming from if not from TiVo?


No. Providing the guide data to TiVo is exactly like the "normal service" done by Rovi. That's exactly what Rovi's products and services are.

Tivo still makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Lost lifetime subs is a sliver of their revenue and is very unlikely to contribute much to the specific cost of guide data.

You act like if TiVo loses a dozen more subs they're going to have to turn to Rovi and say "hey guys we can't afford you any more, can you drop our monthly rate?"


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> You're finding a correlation where none exists.
> 
> "I told TiVo 'x' and then 'x' happened!"
> 
> ...


You seem to be ignoring my comment about TiVo keeping some sort of database of lineups that it downloads to your box when you run guided setup. Does Rovi maintain those or does TiVo maintain those? In other words, could those be fouled up by TiVo without Rovi having a hand in it? I don't know, but you seem to be cock sure about everything.

Also, I've lost track of who's who in this. Rovi bought Tivo and the combined became TiVo. Then Xperi merged with TiVo. Is Rovi, the guide service, a separate company?


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> No. Providing the guide data to TiVo is exactly like the "normal service" done by Rovi. That's exactly what Rovi's products and services are.
> 
> Tivo still makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Lost lifetime subs is a sliver of their revenue and is very unlikely to contribute much to the specific cost of guide data.
> 
> You act like if TiVo loses a dozen more subs they're going to have to turn to Rovi and say "hey guys we can't afford you any more, can you drop our monthly rate?"


Regardless of how much TiVo makes overall, it is obvious that the retail business is ebbing so it is certainly plausible that TiVo is scrimping on staff that deals with the retail customer base.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> No. Providing the guide data to TiVo is exactly like the "normal service" done by Rovi. That's exactly what Rovi's products and services are.
> 
> Tivo still makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Lost lifetime subs is a sliver of their revenue and is very unlikely to contribute much to the specific cost of guide data.
> 
> You act like if TiVo loses a dozen more subs they're going to have to turn to Rovi and say "hey guys we can't afford you any more, can you drop our monthly rate?"


Sounds great. Keep whistling. We'll see how things go for the next year or two.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> You seem to be ignoring my comment about TiVo keeping some sort of database of lineups that it downloads to your box when you run guided setup. Does Rovi maintain those or does TiVo maintain those?


Rovi does.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> Regardless of how much TiVo makes overall, it is obvious that the retail business is ebbing so it is certainly plausible that TiVo is scrimping on staff that deals with the retail customer base.


This statement is completely reasonable.

But the premise of earlier arguments was more akin to "TiVo messed up and deleted a channel that shouldn't have been deleted... must be because they've lost lifetime subscribers and can't afford to hire people to maintain the guide".


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> Rovi does.


So Rovi has access to TiVos servers?
You didn't answer my question about the companies involved. Is Rovi, the guide service provider, a separate company from Xperi?


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> This statement is completely reasonable.
> 
> But the premise of earlier arguments was more akin to "TiVo messed up and deleted a channel that shouldn't have been deleted... must be because they've lost lifetime subscribers and can't afford to hire people to maintain the guide".


I don't know why you would infer that. I only said that it was taking so long to get a problem fixed that TiVo may have reduced its staffing dealing with lineup issues. See second paragraph of the OP. I never said a thing about subscribers or maintaining the guide.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> So Rovi has access to TiVos servers?
> You didn't answer my question about the companies involved. Is Rovi, the guide service provider, a separate company from Xperi?


Tivo may likely have cached stored versions of the lineups on their servers but the content of those lineups gets refreshed frequently from their data partner, Rovi.

The same way the guide data is maintained and sourced by Rovi but is delivered to your TiVo device from TiVo servers.

And yes, Rovi has access to TiVo's servers in some form - that's how they deliver their product (the guide data) to TiVo.

Wikipedia can explain the TiVo/Rovi/Xperi relationships better than I can.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Rovi does.


There is no Rovi anymore. There's only TiVo (now a part of Xperi). I doubt that the TiVo DVR portion of the business has to pay for the guide data it consumes from the TiVo (Xperi?) guide data part of the business (part of the cost savings of course in the acquisition of TiVo by Rovi).

Scott


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

HerronScott said:


> There is no Rovi anymore. There's only TiVo (now a part of Xperi). I doubt that the TiVo DVR portion of the business has to pay for the guide data it consumes from the TiVo (Xperi?) guide data part of the business (part of the cost savings of course in the acquisition of TiVo by Rovi).
> 
> Scott


actually, they probably do pay (although at cost or with a large discount) so that profitability of the separate business units can be tracked


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Missing channel finally restored today.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Just to hop on this thread, because I had my own multiple lineup request battles with TiVo earlier in 2021.
What I've found is that the TiVo channel lineup for my cable TV provider (a local municipality) has four separate choices, all of which are different - one more accurate than the others. Well, the first week of February, my lineup got caught up in some local broadcast sub-channel tower switcheroo, which normally I just ignore those since I don't watch those kind of "nostalgia" type SD channels, but then Fox ended up a dolphin in that particular net and so I had no choice. I won't give a full play-by-play, from early February to early April, but it did involve three separate lineup change requests through TiVo support (each request was to fix multiple channels), over those weeks.

What I do know is that of all the various guide data websites out there, the one that most closely matches TiVo's own TiVo Online web site is On TV Tonight - OnTVTonight.com - TV Listings, streaming and What's On TV Guide. It's not even close, as like TVGuide is still way out of whack, not at all accurate. The irony being, my provider's web site actually links to TVGuide. Yes, I've told them repeatedly, they don't seem to care. They also have a Zap2It crawl channel - an actual channel, on our cable lineup, and that also has lineup errors. Go figure.
(TitanTV doesn't use the same database and I actually got them to fix their errors with a simple form request and two days later it was fixed on their end.)

Out-of-the-blue changes and subsequent changes (some were correctly fixed, some where changed incorrectly which is even more maddening) were showing up on OnTVTonight in "real time", whereas no other website was reflecting these database changes. 
However. After I had all my lineup concerns finally fixed, after two full months of back and forth with TiVo support, three weeks later I noticed another change on the OnTVTonight, flat out removing a channel I do watch frequently. I figured, OK, here we go again. Except, for some reason, tha tchannel has NOT been removed from my TiVo or of course TiVo Online. In other words, although I know for a fact that OnTVTonight was using the same database, somehow they are now not in sync. Would it surprise me if any day out of the blue I'll see that channel gone from my TiVo guide data, no, but it's been two full months and counting.
So, getting to the root back and forth in this thread, all my recent experience tells me that lineup changes made by contacting TiVo support may or may not be reflected in any other TV listing website out there, even if from a business relationship point of view we would certainly think they should. In other words, if you truly need a change to *your* DVR, *your* TiVo channel lineup, only contacting TiVo support is going to hopefully, eventually make it happen. However the TiVo DVR channel lineup data is currently being changed/stored/replicated/shared/disseminated it is not completely transparent, like it was years ago when we could get changes made through Schedules Direct and those changes would show up on our DVRs a day or two later like clockwork.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

cogx said:


> Just to hop on this thread, because I had my own multiple lineup request battles with TiVo earlier in 2021.
> What I've found is that the TiVo channel lineup for my cable TV provider (a local municipality) has four separate choices, all of which are different - one more accurate than the others. Well, the first week of February, my lineup got caught up in some local broadcast sub-channel tower switcheroo, which normally I just ignore those since I don't watch those kind of "nostalgia" type SD channels, but then Fox ended up a dolphin in that particular net and so I had no choice. I won't give a full play-by-play, from early February to early April, but it did involve three separate lineup change requests through TiVo support (each request was to fix multiple channels), over those weeks.
> 
> What I do know is that of all the various guide data websites out there, the one that most closely matches TiVo's own TiVo Online web site is On TV Tonight - OnTVTonight.com - TV Listings, streaming and What's On TV Guide. It's not even close, as like TVGuide is still way out of whack, not at all accurate. The irony being, my provider's web site actually links to TVGuide. Yes, I've told them repeatedly, they don't seem to care. They also have a Zap2It crawl channel - an actual channel, on our cable lineup, and that also has lineup errors. Go figure.
> ...


Yes. clearly how this all works is a mystery. You would think that when a change is made it would be reflected on all the TiVo/Rovi supplied guides, i.e., TVGuide, TiVos, etc. If there is something wrong on one, something would be wrong on all of them.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Well, here we go again. Turn on TiVo and message pops up that History Channel has been deleted. Nope, tunes in fine, but of course no program data now.

channel shows up in the Xperi supplied TVGuide, Spectrum Guide, etc. So maybe CWoody222 can explain how in the hell this happens.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

And again more. Today Discovery Channel was once again deleted along with Trutv. I simply can’t understand why this is happening.


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## mikey1273 (Nov 6, 2017)

I had an issue with a few OTA channels on a Low power station out of Harrisburg Pa. the guide data was totally missing for a sub channel that was up as a repeater for an ABC affiliate. I had to give them the channel numbers and links to the guide data on titan TV and the technical info about the low power station from rabbitears.info it took them about 3 weeks to fix the guide info. last response was that they still needed to apply the ABC logo in place of the station call letters which they have not done so far, it's been over a month since the last message. I can see that they aren't doing as good as when I had cable but they got it done enough that I can record on the channel now so good enough.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

UCLABB said:


> Well, here we go again. Turn on TiVo and message pops up that History Channel has been deleted. Nope, tunes in fine, but of course no program data now.
> 
> channel shows up in the Xperi supplied TVGuide, Spectrum Guide, etc. So maybe CWoody222 can explain how in the hell this happens.


Rovi sends hundreds if not thousands of lineups into TiVo daily.

Idk why it happens. Could be&#8230;

Tivo refreshes too quickly before errors are caught and reversed.

Tivo is using the wrong feed for your zip/provider.

Tivo is misreading some data flag incorrectly.

While the issue in this case does seem to be unique to Rovi/TiVo if you're not seeing the errors on other Rovi-provided guides online, it doesn't mean that TiVo is deleting things on purpose due to incorrect or malicious Lineup Change requests and overwriting what Rovi is providing.

Have you spoken to your cable provider about it? Often times the staffers that are in control of lineups are unaware of how changes they make can cascade quickly and affect recipients downstream. They could be making changes that aren't intended to impact customers. (Ie: a "test" lineup that TiVo is inadvertently using)

Above is all pure speculation of what could go wrong with a data feed besides juts a human leaning on the big red "delete channel" button with their elbow.


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## KevinG (Sep 3, 2003)

Got a line up change on 7/6 (two days ago). Moved/Added/Deleted DOZENS of channels. All wrong. Tivo is effectively useless now since all of the guide data is wrong. Tivo corporate is similarly useless as all they can do is put in a request for repair that will take "5 to 7 days."

What a mess.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

KevinG said:


> Got a line up change on 7/6 (two days ago). Moved/Added/Deleted DOZENS of channels. All wrong. Tivo is effectively useless now since all of the guide data is wrong. Tivo corporate is similarly useless as all they can do is put in a request for repair that will take "5 to 7 days."
> 
> What a mess.


I had that mass screw up a couple of years ago. What I did then as an interim measure was find an area code and lineup that was still good and matched my lineup and then ran guided setup for that.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Two weeks since I reported History Channel wrongly deleted from my lineup. Crickets. Ditto for subsequent wrong deletions.


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## yesno (Jun 27, 2003)

Only 2 weeks.
(Researching Lineup 2021/05/20) for The Grio guide is off by one hour.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

TiVo finally added the missing channels back into my lineup. Still mystified as to how this happens.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Just as a follow up, I think I uncovered what a potion of the problem was. I think Spectrum changed a couple of channels from East feed to West feed. I think TiVo deleted the East feed but failed to enable the West feed. Could have also been a failure by Spectrum to properly notify.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Had a local change their frequency on the 10th. Notified TiVo on the 10th and today (12th) it's been updated. Not bad...


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

I noticed recently many program and episode description errors in my TiVo guide. I started submitting the Report a Lineup cases.

In my area of South Florida, the local ME-TV and Heroes & Icons channel does not follow the nationwide programming of these channels exactly. On weekends there are a few programs aired locally like church services or documentaries, etc. After reporting these guide errors I received a response from Xperi customer support that they checked and I am in error with my reports. They claim they confirmed with these channels their programming and the TiVo guide is correct. I replied that this weekend I will take pictures of the programs being aired which do not match the guide. No response from my reply.

The other recent issue is the growing program descriptions problem. The program is correct in the guide, but the episode #, title and description is for another episode. This has been occurring for a couple of weeks for some classic shows on the One network. I also reported 2 examples of this and the Xperi customer support replied that this issue has been corrected. I forced network connection multiple times, rebooted my TiVo, forced connection again. The next day I checked and some programs are still showing the wrong episode info.

I do think they must have laid off/reduced the staff or keeping programming accurate in the guide is no longer as much of a priority. I still love my TiVos and not giving them up, but it feels as if they are slowly not making them as appealing as they used to be. I hope to see them turn things around and come up with a new strategy to improve the equipment, adding a unit which can access IP channels and improve the guide service. Time will tell I suppose.


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## klia (Apr 13, 2005)

Since July, when Comcast made some channel number changes, it's been issue after issue with my lineup. They'll fix some channels, then screw up the guide info for others. I'll submit a new report for the new issue, and they'll bork something else. They also can't seem to understand that some channels don't have multiple feeds (east/west) and because I'm in PDT, out of nowhere, they'll suddenly switch to "west" schedule -- which doesn't exist -- and throw everything off by 3 hours. They just did it again today with a channel whose HD version they'd borked the other day, and instead of correcting that, they borked the SD version, too.

I'm just so frustrated with them. It's been pretty clear for the past two years that they no longer keep on top of lineups at all (in 2019 and 2020, Comcast dumped all Encore channels and they're still in my lineup). And because I have older TiVos, I'm no longer allowed to call and talk to a human, and ask them to please stop "fixing" schedules that aren't incorrect.

ETA: TiVo also removed the HD designation from most of our HD channels, so auto-record Wish Lists for HD programs don't find anything.


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## mikey1273 (Nov 6, 2017)

Oh more trouble with lineups here.
A month ago the low power station WHLZ changed the sub channels around. Moving bounce to 19.1 where they had a static announcement. And adding DEfy tv to 19.5 where bounce was. Now a month later they have the logo correct. They have the guide data for Defy correct but they have the guide data for the channel TBD matched to 19.1 not bounce. Borked!

Then at the beginning of October they add Newsy at 19.6 I but in another line up change request. They have the program guide data now but no logo. 

Then last week WGAL added true real to there lineup on 8.5 virtual on there main feed vhf 8 and the Low power translator Rf35 as 8.5 also.
Yesterday they added trueReal as 8.7 to my lineup. Of course if you try to tune it nothing is there they don't have an 8.7 no clue how they messed up that. I can Still see the 8.5* in my channel list and it works with no guide data. 
So now I have a ticket in saying it's been done wrong. 

I hear people that use HD home run tuners and HDhomerun with Plex don't have this issue because the data is matched with Gracenote


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I got them to fix one problem fairly quickly -- about the week that seems standard.. one PBS SD channel moved to where CSPAN 1 was.. but I still have to do another correction since I forgot to tell them that what they call CSPAN now really should be CSPAN-1, since as CSPAN, it has absolutely no listings. (Not like the listings for the CSPAN channels is usually all that helpful, except for weekend programming.)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mattack said:


> I got them to fix one problem fairly quickly -- about the week that seems standard.. one PBS SD channel moved to where CSPAN 1 was.. but I still have to do another correction since I forgot to tell them that what they call CSPAN now really should be CSPAN-1, since as CSPAN, it has absolutely no listings. (Not like the listings for the CSPAN channels is usually all that helpful, except for weekend programming.)


C-SPAN and C-SPAN1 are both used for the same channel. C-SPAN is the proper name but TiVo won't change it.


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## klia (Apr 13, 2005)

mattack said:


> one PBS SD channel moved to where CSPAN 1 was..


We got the same change. When TiVo didn't automatically change our guide, I filed a report, and they fixed it within a week-10 days. But then they randomly changed them back a couple weeks after that and also borked a few other PBS channels at the same time, which took another month to get fixed.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Your profile doesn't say where you are.. For me, it changed back IIRC for one day.. then changed back to my report. and has been that way ever since..

I still have to report the "CSPAN" channel really being "CSPAN-1" since it has no listings at all now that it's called "CSPAN".


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JoeKustra said:


> C-SPAN and C-SPAN1 are both used for the same channel. C-SPAN is the proper name but TiVo won't change it.


?? Nope.. When it is "CSPAN-1", it actually had listings. As "CSPAN", it has no listings.


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