# What feature would make you move to the "TIVO BOLT"



## scottfll954

I have a Roamio plus now and very pleased...

2 features would make me move up if offered.. 

1... more graphical UI
1a.. voice commands

2.. double the speed.. 

All very doubtful in my opinion


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## moyekj

About the only thing I can think of for me in terms of hardware (which will NOT happen):
No need for cablecard or tuning adapter


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## JerryAC

Add more steaming channel options like USTVNow, SlingTV, etc. like a Roku box. It would also have to quick in switching channels like the Roku.

I don't have a problem with the Roku, except it is un-handy to have to search in my bucket of remotes to change the HDMI input on my TV. My Tivo remote will not control my Insignia TV inputs.


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## tomhorsley

The ability to play files from my home computer without having to go through klunky interfaces like streambaby which may or may not always be supported by the TiVo software. Preferably I could just provide links to video files on a simple web server. (I can stream video to my Nexus 7 MX Player app this way, and it works far more reliably than streaming from the TiVo to the TiVo app on the same Nexus 7).


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## dave13077

I don't mind the Cablecard but would like to see the Tuning Adapter go away. Tuning Adapter issues (missed recordings and blank channels) are the only thing that makes me want to possibly ditch Tivo for Direct TV.


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## jxryan

Adding the embedded Roku-TV platform to Tivo would be awesome. Not sure about the feasibility though.


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## MikeekiM

1. Support for both cable and OTA
2. Support for DirecTV
3. Support for more streaming services (though this would piss me off a bit since I shouldn't have to move to new hardware to get more services...this should be a software update).
4. Lightning fast UI (and I mean lightning fast...not just a little faster...the Roamio is already quite impressive in responsiveness)


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## atmuscarella

At this point there would be very little TiVo could do on the hardware side that would cause me to believe I needed to upgrade. On the software side again at this point most of what I might find useful could easily be done on the Roamio platform, which I have near 100% belief will continue to be fully support. 

If (when) I buy a 4K TV everything changes. At that point I will basically want a DVR that supports every type of 4K content delivery available. 

Of course there are also things I might like that I know are impossible for TiVo to do at this time, like providing stand alone OTA Dish or Direct combo DVRs.


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## alarson83

-more streaming options
-cost - tivo has always had a fairly high cost to entry for its boxes and service compared to say... a roku. I certainly dont expect that cheap, but hundreds for box and service is a barrier that prevents many from entering. Similarly, what i have now works fine, so whatever new features there are need to justify the price... and i doubt there will be $500 of new features over the roamio here.


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## sicariis

Faster SoC, More memory, 4+TB of Storage (preferably 6TB but I'll settle for 4TB). 

New Streaming options: HBO Now, Showtime, SlingTV, etc. Renewed support for Video Podcasts. 

Updated UI, Updated On Demand App. Auto-Backup OnePass info to TiVo servers.


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## krkaufman

See related responses in "TiVo Bolt?" thread, starting HERE.

edit: Personally, I have a hard time imagining anything that the Bolt will be able to do that won't also be available in the existing Roamios with a software update, so I don't see a short-term upgrade happening. (I figure the rebranding is simply to emphasize some new software feature TiVo wants to focus on, similar to how the "Roamio" brand was meant to emphasize the mobile streaming capability.)

That said, the only things that might compel me to upgrade would be if the Bolt models had exclusive access to: user profiles, 6+TB hard drives, NAS storage, simultaneous cable & OTA, add-on networked tuners, merged 'My Shows' and networked scheduling for multi-DVR homes.


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## Dan203

MikeekiM said:


> 1. Support for both cable and OTA


If it had this, and still had all the features of the Roamio Pro, I would consider it. Right now I'm using a Roamio Pro and an OTA because there is one channel I can only get in HD via OTA. I would rather have them all integrated into one box though.


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## MikeekiM

Dan203 said:


> If it had this, and still had all the features of the Roamio Pro, I would consider it. Right now I'm using a Roamio Pro and an OTA because there is one channel I can only get in HD via OTA. I would rather have them all integrated into one box though.


I guess there is actually two different issues at play:

1. Support for cable OR OTA on the high end boxes
2. Support for integrated cable AND OTA programming

It's my understanding that even the basic Roamio doesn't support #2...you have to choose one or the other... I don't have a basic Roamio, so I don't have any hands-on experience with the box...


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## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> If it had this, and still had all the features of the Roamio Pro, I would consider it. Right now I'm using a Roamio Pro and an OTA because there is one channel I can only get in HD via OTA. I would rather have them all integrated into one box though.


I've always thought that a "Pro" model should have been differentiated from the Plus by more than just hard drive size. 4+ OTA tuners (even 2!) to complement the 6 CableCARD tuners would definitely compel me to upgrade -- for the same reason as Dan203: Comcast carries 1 of our local HD channels (CW) in SD-only, and doesn't carry our 2 PBS subchannels.


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## HarperVision

MikeekiM said:


> I guess there is actually two different issues at play: 1. Support for cable OR OTA on the high end boxes 2. Support for integrated cable AND OTA programming It's my understanding that even the basic Roamio doesn't support #2...you have to choose one or the other... I don't have a basic Roamio, so I don't have any hands-on experience with the box...


Actually, technically it CAN do OTA and cable simultaneously. The only limitation is that it has only one RF coax input, meaning you have to combine those signals together and without the proper filters, some the channels may overlap and cause interference and/or total loss of signal on one or more channels.


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## moyekj

HarperVision said:


> Actually, technically it CAN do OTA and cable simultaneously. The only limitation is that it has only one RF coax input, meaning you have to combine those signals together and without the proper filters, some the channels may overlap and cause interference and/or total loss of signal on one or more channels.


 But in software can you setup for a combined OTA & cable guide lineup? I was under the impression not.


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## HarperVision

moyekj said:


> But in software can you setup for a combined OTA & cable guide lineup? I was under the impression not.


Yes you can. I have my OTA setup that way as we speak. What you do is first set it up for antenna OTA, then after completing that setup and all's well, plug in either a TA (on base model or OTA) or cablecard (if you have a base model only) and it will pop up a message saying that it has detected the TA or cablecard and asking if you want to setup your TiVo to also support cable tv. Just select yes and it will run through guided setup for cable and when finished they will be merged in the guide together, just like an HD or a premiere unit.


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## moyekj

HarperVision said:


> Yes you can. I have my OTA setup that way as we speak. What you do is first set it up for antenna OTA, then after completing that setup and all's well, plug in either a TA (on base model or OTA) or cablecard (if you have a base model only) and it will pop up a message saying that it has detected the TA or cablecard and asking if you want to setup your TiVo to also support cable tv. Just select yes and it will run through guided setup for cable and when finished they will be merged in the guide together, just like an HD or a premiere unit.


 That's pretty cool (assuming you can do the appropriate RF modulation to combine the signals as you mentioned).


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## HarperVision

moyekj said:


> That's pretty cool (assuming you can do the appropriate RF modulation to combine the signals as you mentioned).


On mine I'm only using it for OTA and then I slip in a modulated QAM channel (a DirecTV DVR) on ch 135 from my ZeeVee modulator using a standard coax splitter because the frequencies are far enough apart as to not interfere.


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## Dan203

MikeekiM said:


> I guess there is actually two different issues at play:
> 
> 1. Support for cable OR OTA on the high end boxes
> 2. Support for integrated cable AND OTA programming
> 
> It's my understanding that even the basic Roamio doesn't support #2...you have to choose one or the other... I don't have a basic Roamio, so I don't have any hands-on experience with the box...


#2 is what I was talking about. The last TiVo to do that was the Premiere 2 tuner unit. I'd consider it even if it was asymmetrical. Like 2 cable and 2 OTA.


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## waynomo

The ability to transfer copy protected content like HBO to my PC.


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## Dan203

waynomo said:


> The ability to transfer copy protected content like HBO to my PC.


They could do that now with an updated app. They allow it in the iOS app.


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## waynomo

Dan203 said:


> They could do that now with an updated app. They allow it in the iOS app.


I didn't say it would be difficult.


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## Dan203

I just meant it wouldn't require new hardware.


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## atmuscarella

Dan203 said:


> I just meant it wouldn't require new hardware.


That is my feeling on most of what people want. If it software related (apps (except 4K streaming), features, etc.) there is no need for new hardware and if TiVo is planning on adding/updating software no reason to not do it on the Roamio platform.

Any truly new box (not just a refresh) will have to offer something on the hardware side or it is a waist of time.


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## tjtv

Plex app(or something similar like XBMC) that worked smoothly in 1080p that would play back mkv files residing on the local network without the need for the machine that serves up the mkv to do any transcoding.

If the BOLT did that, and did it right, it would go a looonnng way towards getting the A/V cabinet down to a single box. That would certainly be something worth paying for.


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## Dan203

tjtv said:


> Plex app(or something similar like XBMC) that worked smoothly in 1080p that would play back mkv files residing on the local network without the need for the machine that serves up the mkv to do any transcoding.
> 
> If the BOLT did that, and did it right, it would go a looonnng way towards getting the A/V cabinet down to a single box. That would certainly be something worth paying for.


Again a software feature, not hardware. The Netflix, Amazon and Vudu apps work just fine at 1080p on the Roamio. Not sure why the Plex app doesn't, but it seems to be a software limitation not a hardware one.

Really if you think about the Roamio hardware it's basically got everything you'd really ever need. Especially the Plus/Pro. That's why I think this is basically going to be a refresh to make the Plus/Pro features cheaper so they can sell them at Basic prices. Essentially I think the cable Bolt will be a Roamio Plus with a cheaper plastic case, then there will be an XL with a bigger drive, and an Aereo edition which has all the same features but is OTA only. (and maybe limited to 4 tuners instead of 6) Other then that we might see a slight CPU bump.

Everything else people are wanting can be done in software. The only thing that can't is OTA and cable in a single box. And I think that's unlikely because it would be too expensive for a box very few people actually need.


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## series5orpremier

When I add up the ~$1300 in Roamios, lifetimes, hard drives, and minis that make up my current set-up, and that the average age of all that hardware/service is about one year, there's nothing in a mere refresh that would make me get a Bolt anytime soon. You'd have to be using the term Series 6 for me to think about it. I need at least a few more years before I get my money's worth out of my current set-up.


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## Anotherpyr

It took the mini and a major sale to get me to upgrade to a roamio from the original premiere. I can't imagine any new feature the bolt could offer that would change that.


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## tjtv

Dan203 said:


> Again a software feature, not hardware. The Netflix, Amazon and Vudu apps work just fine at 1080p on the Roamio. Not sure why the Plex app doesn't, but it seems to be a software limitation not a hardware one.


The current plex app on roamio is able to play mkvs *without transcoding*? Even on high quality BR rips with DTS audio? If so that's really awesome.

If it's not capable of doing then, then maybe there really is a new hardware chip that could be included in the BOLT to make it possible, and make it possible at 1080p.


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## caughey

scottfll954 said:


> I have a Roamio plus now and very pleased...
> 
> 2 features would make me move up if offered..
> 
> 1... more graphical UI
> 1a.. voice commands
> 
> 2.. double the speed..
> 
> All very doubtful in my opinion


1. What does that mean? "more graphical" in what way?

1a. Oh, no thank you. But you're welcome to it.

2. Double speed of what? Menu navigation? Or...?

I can't think of anything that Bolt could offer that I just have to have.


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## hillyard

Both cable an over the air tuners
Snappier response
More user customizing ie get rid of ad bar, ability to skin the screens
4K
Less bugs
Better wifi


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## krkaufman

HarperVision said:


> Actually, technically it CAN do OTA and cable simultaneously. The only limitation is that it has only one RF coax input, meaning you have to combine those signals together and without the proper filters, some the channels may overlap and cause interference and/or total loss of signal on one or more channels.


Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's quite likely) but wouldn't those "proper filters" block a portion of either the OTA or cable spectrum, effectively eliminating a range of OTA and/or cable channels?


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## HarperVision

krkaufman said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's quite likely) but wouldn't those "proper filters" block a portion of either the OTA or cable spectrum, effectively eliminating a range of OTA and/or cable channels?


Why yes they would as a matter of fact. It would be very system and area dependent and you would have to choose which of the channels that overlap to keep and which to filter out. My only use case for this undocumented "feature" is so I can use my frequency agile QAM modulator with another source device (currently a non-activated DirecTV DVR for testing) so it commingles with my OTA ATSC in the guide for easy access (i.e. - WAF). I can change the frequency/channel that it broadcasts on, so not really an issue for me. 

I'm not saying it's an ideal solution with these later TiVos, just that it's technically possible.


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## jcthorne

tjtv said:


> The current plex app on roamio is able to play mkvs *without transcoding*? Even on high quality BR rips with DTS audio? If so that's really awesome.
> 
> If it's not capable of doing then, then maybe there really is a new hardware chip that could be included in the BOLT to make it possible, and make it possible at 1080p.


The current hardware already supports the necessary codecs to do this. (except DTS which is a licencing issue, not technical). it the current plex app that does not support 1080p resolution h264 video streams. The netflix and amazon apps already do on Roamio.


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## Dan203

They could do DTS pass through without licensing. However they would need at least a core decoder for the PCM option to work, which would require licensing.


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## meoge

I personally would like 12 tuners.


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## lessd

meoge said:


> I personally would like 12 tuners.


That would be easy I think, just have two cable card slots, but to be usefull we need programs by person, like Netflix, my recordings would be under my name, my wifes under her name and so forth, we would need a bigger hard drive but that should not be much of a problem for TiVo as we (on this Forum) can do it now.


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## meoge

lessd said:


> That would be easy I think, just have two cable card slots, but to be usefull we need programs by person, like Netflix, my recordings would be under my name, my wifes under her name and so forth, we would need a bigger hard drive but that should not be much of a problem for TiVo as we (on this Forum) can do it now.


Yes, profiles would be first on my wish list

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## aaronwt

I would need the Bolt to be black and to have some kind of performance increase. If the only option is white then there would need to be a major performance bosst for me to even consider getting a Bolt.


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## krkaufman

meoge said:


> I personally would like 12 tuners.


Yeah, 12 tuners was nice on my WMC setup... 6 CableCARD + 6 OTA, via HDHomeRun Prime (x2) and DUAL (x3). It was nice to be able to pad all my shows and not have to worry about conflicts.

Alas...


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## abovethesink

Profiles and 4k support for the apps. I hate having to switch to my otherwise inferior TV apps to watch their shows in 4k. If we are dreaming, two cablecard slots would be awesome, but the boxes will cook you dinner before they do that. The industry is moving away from cablecards. I would also like to see the transfer and delete option for protected shows expanded beyond the mobile sphere, i.e. TiVo to TiVo or TiVo to PC. But that, like profiles, could exist on the Roamio or Premiere line already.


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## krkaufman

lessd said:


> That would be easy I think, just have two cable card slots, but *to be usefull we need programs by person, like Netflix, my recordings would be under my name, my wifes under her name and so forth*, we would need a bigger hard drive but that should not be much of a problem for TiVo as we (on this Forum) can do it now.





meoge said:


> Yes, *profiles would be first on my wish list*.





abovethesink said:


> *Profiles *and 4k support for the apps.


I nagged davezatz about user profiles, recently, and he clued me in to TiVo having dabbled with the concept as early as a decade ago...



> ZNF (Mar 2010): Three TiVo Premiere Mysteries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my original Premiere write-up, I dinged TiVo for lacking the sort of personalized user experience Sezmi is championing. Yet TiVo pioneered this with Kidzone, filed a possibly related outlandish RFID patent, and has made some vague comments leading me to believe its on their radar. And, surely, the proof of the pudding is seen above.


It's a bummer that nothing has materialized after all this time.

And I wouldn't call the RFID patent (ZNF, Nov 2005!) "outlandish," since they were working w/ pre-smartphone technology; I've pondered the same thing, but w/ smartphones, to make user profiles more convenient, allowing one or more viewers to attach to a TiVo DVR/Mini without affecting what's being displayed to the TV. (Wouldn't it be nice if the TiVo could quickly suggest the best content to view as a group, based on the intersection of user profiles and individual watched progress.)

----
Re: Sezmi: It seems to have been akin to a TiVo with OnePass and user profiles, plus SlingTV, rolled into one -- and not dissimilar to what many have speculatively pined for as an Aereo replacement.
Jan 2010: Hands on with Sezmi (Finally!)
Feb 2010: Sezmi Launches Into Retail (Los Angeles)
Sep 2011: Sezmi Joins The Deadpool
Sep 2011: Sezmi says goodbye. Here's why.​


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## caughey

krkaufman said:


> (Wouldn't it be nice if the TiVo could quickly suggest the best content to view as a group, based on the intersection of user profiles and individual watched progress.)


Nice. But also slightly creepy, in a cool kinda way. 

New hardware wouldn't be required for profiles, but maybe the Bolt has added a facial recognition camera.


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## CoxInPHX

If it made Margaritas and Cotton Candy.


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## lessd

meoge said:


> Yes, profiles would be first on my wish list
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


In thinking about a 6 tuner TiVo box, profiles is important, but TiVo has to put an option into the Mini so it will stay on all the time as we like the TV on at night and a Mini would do the job, but it goes off in 4 hours if you are sleeping, my wife likes the kitchen TV on all the time when she home and doing work near and in the kitchen, again the Mini will not do because of the 4 hour time out, so I can't replace my three Roamios with a single Bolt if the Mini works the way it does now, no matter what the spec are for the Bolt!


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## aaronwt

krkaufman said:


> I nagged davezatz about user profiles, recently, and he clued me in to TiVo having dabbled with the concept as early as a decade ago...
> 
> It's a bummer that nothing has materialized after all this time.
> 
> And I wouldn't call the RFID patent (ZNF, Nov 2005!) "outlandish," since they were working w/ pre-smartphone technology; I've pondered the same thing, but w/ smartphones, to make user profiles more convenient, allowing one or more viewers to attach to a TiVo DVR/Mini without affecting what's being displayed to the TV. (Wouldn't it be nice if the TiVo could quickly suggest the best content to view as a group, based on the intersection of user profiles and individual watched progress.)
> 
> ----
> Re: Sezmi: It seems to have been akin to a TiVo with OnePass and user profiles, plus SlingTV, rolled into one -- and not dissimilar to what many have speculatively pined for as an Aereo replacement.
> Jan 2010: Hands on with Sezmi (Finally!)
> Feb 2010: Sezmi Launches Into Retail (Los Angeles)
> Sep 2011: Sezmi Joins The Deadpool​


 has it really been over five years since they showed the profiles pic? I really wish that would have been implemented. It would have made the organization of the shows so much easier than it is now.


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## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> has it really been over five years since they showed the profiles pic? I really wish that would have been implemented. It would have made the organization of the shows so much easier than it is now.


What I find especially annoying is that they stuck w/ the "My Shows" rename as part of the 2010 rollout, from "Now Playing," without adding user profiles -- making the "My" in "My Shows" more confusing, since it would imply user-specific content to new, uneducated (i.e. blissfully ignorant) users.

And preserving watched progress can add a great deal of confusion in a multi-user home, as well. No guarantee that it's "My Watched Progress."


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## jth tv

1. Significantly better Over The Air Reception
2. Significantly better Over The Air Reception Tools. For example, a timestamped log of signal strength and reception Quality.

At this point, direction and placement of an antenna seems to be too much trial and error and not enough actual measurement.

3. Discrete (separate) standby / wakeup infrared codes for Harmony 600 remote


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## NYHeel

Profiles would be really great. I remember getting all excited when that picture was released. It would be really annoying in the beginning because we'd have to assign all of our season passes to specific profiles but it would be worth it.


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## SugarBowl

Things that I would want ... 

Support for streaming/scheduling from windows 10 devices

No Tuning adapter


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## jlb

dave13077 said:


> I don't mind the Cablecard but would like to see the Tuning Adapter go away. Tuning Adapter issues (missed recordings and blank channels) are the only thing that makes me want to possibly ditch Tivo for Direct TV.


That's one of the reasons why I am so glad we only subscribe to Comcast limited basic for locals.


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## Dan203

SugarBowl said:


> Support for streaming/scheduling from windows 10 devices


With DuOS you can use the Android app.

Win10 finally adds HLS support, so maybe they'll finally creat a native app in another 2 years or so. (about how long it took for the Android app to get finished)


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## NashGuy

The only things that would get me to sell my relatively new Roamio OTA and buy a Bolt Aereo Edition are all software-based stuff that I believe could be implemented on Roamio (and probably Premiere too). But if TiVo added streaming apps for Showtime and HBO on Bolt and stated that they would never be offered to Roamio (which I highly doubt would ever happen), I'd probably trade up. Or *maybe* if Bolt offered a significantly improved UI (essentially a whole new version of the TiVo service) that wouldn't be rolling out to Roamio too, then I might upgrade.

There's really nothing hardware-wise that would get me to upgrade. I'm happy with my 4 tuners and 500 GB hard drive (well, I may inexpensively upgrade the HD myself at some point) and the Roamio silicon is capable enough for me. I have no interest in built-in Stream or MoCa functions.


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## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> With DuOS you can use the Android app.
> 
> Win10 finally adds HLS support, so maybe they'll finally create a native app in another 2 years or so. (about how long it took for the Android app to get finished)


Funny thing is, it would take minimal effort to port the Android app over to a Windows Universal App using the Windows development bridge.

Unfortunately, I just do not think TiVo is going to do it. They have TiVo Online and I suspect they will convince themselves that a web portal has broader access than a Windows 10 universal app.

We will see, if Windows 10 continues to grow at its current pace, maybe it will convince TiVo that it is worth the effort.


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## Dan203

One thing that concerns me is that if they do release a Windows 10 app they may yank the old TiVoToGo protocol. If there is a way to download shows to a PC using a Windows 10 app then they may decide TTG is no longer needed. However because of the way the Stream works we wouldn't be able to decode and edit downloads like we can now. That would be bad for VRD, and for me personally.


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## aaronwt

Doesn't TiVo online work with Windows devices?

I've got a refurbished Asus Transformer tablet coming soon. So I guess I will find then.


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## bradleys

aaronwt said:


> Doesn't TiVo online work with Windows devices?
> 
> I've got a refurbished Asus Transformer tablet coming soon. So I guess I will find then.


It does, but it certainly isn't as functional or responsive as the mobile apps are.

The big drawback for TiVo Online is that you cannot stream any copy protected content even in your home.


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## Dan203

Also when in full screen there is a constantly displayed progress bar but no 30 second skip or instant replay. (the smaller UI has those but they go away in full screen)

Plus there is no way to setup the Stream from online.tivo.com. You have to set it up using an iOS or Android device first.


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## foghorn2

Kodi 
Folders
Hbo now/go
Tivos version of SlingTv

But im sure this could be done on the romes.


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## Jed1

Dan203 said:


> Also when in full screen there is a constantly displayed progress bar but no 30 second skip or instant replay. (the smaller UI has those but they go away in full screen)
> 
> *Plus there is no way to setup the Stream from online.tivo.com. You have to set it up using an iOS or Android device first*.


This is the main reason why I do not have a stream as I have no way of setting it up.


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## dfreybur

Any of these three would trigger an upgrade for me -

1) A universal learning remote peanut. As it is now there are TVs not in the database and if yours is not listed, tough. There are learning remotes on the market so this should be doable. Or sell such a remote and I would buy one.

2) Save stream to disk. Preload the next episode of each one-pass. Our network continues to lose stream every so often. It's a race between increasing screen resolution and network bandwidth so I expect to always be just barely on the margin of streaming just barely working but not quite always. For copyright reasons this one will never happen but we can dream and I would switch away from Tivo to get such a DVR.

3) An Aero subscription service so I don't need an antenna at all. The reverse of cutting the cable but all over the net.


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## Dan203

dfreybur said:


> 1) A universal learning remote peanut. As it is now there are TVs not in the database and if yours is not listed, tough. There are learning remotes on the market so this should be doable. Or sell such a remote and I would buy one.


The Slide Pro is a learning remote. You can learn the power, input and volume/mute buttons.


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## keenanSR

There is no reason to believe the new model will not output 1080p/24 from the OTT apps such as Netflix and Amazon is there? A new chipset, or something of that nature? That's a feature I would not want changed.


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## tomhorsley

If it has profiles, I hope the channel list will be per-profile. I'd love to setup a "college football" profile that just had all the channels broadcasting football games so I could switch to that profile on Saturdays and channel surf from one game to the next when commercials come on .


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## senorgregster

I honestly can't see anything that would make me buy one. Happy with what I have. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty room for improvement with the roamios but not multi hundred dollar wrong.


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## filovirus

As a Comcast user with a Pro, 3TB Plus, and three minis, I cannot fathom what the Bolt could offer that would entice me to disrupt what I have. And that stinks for Tivo, which seems to be heading the way of the dodo if you follow their stock price and future loss of of patents. The vast majority of people are content to pay the lease on crappy cableco DVR/Tuners or cut the cord. As a Tivo fan, I hope I am wrong about the Bolt. If the next apple TV has the ability to use native/iPad/iphone apps, that will disrupt so much of the current paradigm.


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## andydumi

I'd like to see the ability to Chromecast a recorded show. I know we have the minis, but occasional casting without the need for a monthly cost mini would be great.


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## atmuscarella

andydumi said:


> I'd like to see the ability to Chromecast a recorded show. I know we have the minis, but occasional casting without the need for a monthly cost mini would be great.


Mini's are now $150 with lifetime service (no option for a monthly fee). If you are still paying monthly on a mini you need to either buy a new one or call TiVo and get them to give you lifetime on it for some very low fee.


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## NashGuy

filovirus said:


> As a Comcast user with a Pro, 3TB Plus, and three minis, I cannot fathom what the Bolt could offer that would entice me to disrupt what I have. And that stinks for Tivo, which seems to be heading the way of the dodo if you follow their stock price and future loss of of patents. The vast majority of people are content to pay the lease on crappy cableco DVR/Tuners or cut the cord. As a Tivo fan, I hope I am wrong about the Bolt. If the next apple TV has the ability to use native/iPad/iphone apps, that will disrupt so much of the current paradigm.


I'm afraid you may be right about TiVo's future. There's also the question about the future of CableCard and its successor hanging over TiVo's head. Given the rise of streaming and, it would seem, the inevitable winnowing of the cable bundle, I think TiVo's main advantage is its ability to integrate traditional TV (whether cable or OTA) with streaming. I think that has to be the core of their marketing message, both for retail consumers as well as for striking deals with small to mid-size cable operators. It's the only real distinction that sets TiVo apart. (Yes, longtime TiVo users may appreciate it as the best-ever cable DVR but focusing on that more traditional aspect of TiVo's capabilities hasn't really done much to boost the company the past several years.)


----------



## plazman30

What would make me move to the Bolt?

The release of the product.

I'm on a Premiere and would like something faster that has 4 tuners.


----------



## lessd

plazman30 said:


> What would make me move to the Bolt?
> 
> The release of the product.
> 
> I'm on a Premiere and would like something faster that has 4 tuners.


You could also move to the Roamio for less money, I think the Bolt will be a less expensive DRV to make for TiVo and some of the chips that the Roamio uses may be going out of production, making harder to keep making the Roamio as it is.


----------



## krkaufman

plazman30 said:


> I'm on a Premiere and would like something faster that has 4 tuners.


Just in case, are you aware of the ongoing sale on 4-tuner Roamios?

https://www.tivo.com/shop/promo/supersavings

$300, including Lifetime service plan, for either a new OTA or refurb base model​


----------



## MikeekiM

filovirus said:


> As a Comcast user with a Pro, 3TB Plus, and three minis, I cannot fathom what the Bolt could offer that would entice me to disrupt what I have. And that stinks for Tivo, which seems to be heading the way of the dodo if you follow their stock price and future loss of of patents. The vast majority of people are content to pay the lease on crappy cableco DVR/Tuners or cut the cord. As a Tivo fan, I hope I am wrong about the Bolt. If the next apple TV has the ability to use native/iPad/iphone apps, that will disrupt so much of the current paradigm.


Fortunately, there's always DirecTV... Genie is a wonderful box... If TiVo were to go the way of the dodo, I would switch back to DirecTV once my contractual obligation with Comcast was met...


----------



## jcthorne

The two things I would most like to see upgraded, next gen or in the Roamio...

1, Faster UI in the apps. Likely just needs more processor power and memory.

2, An opera browser that supports full 1080p at BluRay bitrates and DTS sound.


----------



## filovirus

MikeekiM said:


> Fortunately, there's always DirecTV... Genie is a wonderful box... If TiVo were to go the way of the dodo, I would switch back to DirecTV once my contractual obligation with Comcast was met...


By the time Tivo goes out of business, IP video should be well established. Cord cutting would be an option at that time.


----------



## moyekj

filovirus said:


> By the time Tivo goes out of business, IP video should be well established. Cord cutting would be an option at that time.


It won't be cord cutting because for most people the ISP provider is the same as cable company and they will find a way to make up for lost revenue by charging per byte much like the wireless networks. And in the IP model we will lose control over skipping commercials. We are in golden times now compared to what the future has in store.


----------



## rainwater

moyekj said:


> It won't be cord cutting because for most people the ISP provider is the same as cable company and they will find a way to make up for lost revenue by charging per byte much like the wireless networks.


Cable companies are already doing that. They make next to nothing on video services. If you look at TWC and Comcast the last few years, almost all of their profits are from their internet service.


----------



## filovirus

moyekj said:


> It won't be cord cutting because for most people the ISP provider is the same as cable company and they will find a way to make up for lost revenue by charging per byte much like the wireless networks. And in the IP model we will lose control over skipping commercials. We are in golden times now compared to what the future has in store.


Agreed, I was paying about $130 a month to Dish and 79.99 to Comcast for internet. Once I dumped dish and added TV to Comcast, my bill is usually around 120-135 per month including two cablecards, digital preferred, HBO, SHO, Max, and Starz, along with 100/10Mb internet. I just call every year, threaten to cancel and reap the benefits. Now, while I am saving money with Comcast over Dish, I have bought heavily into Tivo with a Roamio Pro,Plus and three minis all with lifetime. I need that Roamio investment to last years and still have the option to sell off on eBay when the time comes.

It may be golden times, but it is also transitional times in tech, with HDR, 4K. I Coming from TCI cable with a 12 inch B&W TV and 19 inch RCA, 1080p is a dream that is hard to believe.


----------



## moyekj

rainwater said:


> Cable companies are already doing that. They make next to nothing on video services. If you look at TWC and Comcast the last few years, almost all of their profits are from their internet service.


 Yes but most are not (yet) charging per byte or strictly enforcing their "data limits" which is what I fear we are heading towards.


----------



## filovirus

moyekj said:


> Yes but most are not (yet) charging per byte or strictly enforcing their "data limits" which is what I fear we are heading towards.


Which is why we desperately need competition in the broadband space. Caps are not an issue when you can cancel and go to a competitor that does not have any. Google fiber is doing a good job of disrupting the establishment, just not fast enough for the majority of us who have a duopoly for internet access. I live in a CenturyLink area, so I do not see DSL as a viable option, considering their 768Kbps upload speed in 2015.


----------



## krkaufman

filovirus said:


> Which is why we desperately need competition in the broadband space. Caps are not an issue when you can cancel and go to a competitor that does not have any. Google fiber is doing a good job of disrupting the establishment, just not fast enough for the majority of us who have a duopoly for internet access. I live in a CenturyLink area, so I do not see DSL as a viable option, considering their 768Kbps upload speed in 2015.


Same situation in my hometown. Comcast is the only "broadband" provider in the area (25Mbps+), with a couple phone companies offering sloooow DSL access (e.g. customers seeing speeds around 1.5 down/0.7up). Fortunately, Comcast is seeing some competition spring-up via a rural electric co-op whose phone & Internet services have expanded to digital fiber, offering speeds from 25Mbps up to Gigabit.


----------



## Jonathan_S

Offhand I can't think of any hardware features that would get me to dump my quite new 6-tuner Roamio for a Bolt. Sure I wouldn't mind if the CPU was a little snappier; but its quick enough I'm not going to spend money to upgrade just for that.

6 tuners is plenty, even if they added a 2nd cable card slot to support more.
I've already got a 3TB drive in there which seems big enough
Wifi isn't of interest to me since I've already got ethernet to the TiVo's location.

There was a time when I'd have loved a refresh of the DVD-TiVos so I could use the peanut remote and trick play with Blu-rays; but even that (which doesn't appear to be where they're going) isn't likely to get me to upgrade.



There are some software features I'd like (or like restored), but those wouldn't require new hardware.


----------



## HarperVision

Perhaps RVU technology so the TiVo can interface with a DirecTV Genie whole home system?



> With RVU capability, a TV that is connected to the home network can discover and play/record content from any compatible source of entertainment content on that network. These sources can be Pay-TV set-top boxes (such as DIRECTV Genie), Blu-Ray Disc Players, game consoles, *TiVo DVRs*, Roku, A/V receivers...basically any CE device that can output audio or video.


RVU Alliance Progress Report to FCC, May 28, 2015: http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/v...thWnLG8n2!-668154738!683247717?id=60001076089

Maybe the Bolt will have this feature so they can semi-get back in the DirecTV game? Just install a genie rvu server as the headend and then throw TiVos at each TV as the clients with all its streaming options (Vudu, PLEX, Hulu, Netflix, YouTube, MLB, et al.) to go along with your DirecTV Genie DVR!


----------



## Dan203

I doubt it. But if they could get permission to replace the Genie DVR and then use Minis in each room I could see them jumping at that. They have to be able to record the streams though or it's not really worth it.


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> I doubt it. But if they could get permission to replace the Genie DVR and then use Minis in each room I could see them jumping at that. They have to be able to record the streams though or it's not really worth it.


Why not just use the Genie as the headless host DVR and then maybe all TiVos including Minis can access it using the RVU app? Why replace the Genie? No reason to record the stream because the Genie is already doing that as the DVR. The rvu app acts just like a hardware Genie Mini client and acts just like the DVR to access all recordings and setup new ones, as well as trick play.

Have you used a Genie System before?


----------



## HarperVision

Looks like this has been discussed before in 2009 when RVU was first being hashed out:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10608999#post10608999


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## Dan203

TiVo is a DVR company. They want to be the ones recording the stream. They don't want to be relegated to an over priced, and over sized, Roku.


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## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> TiVo is a DVR company. They want to be the ones recording the stream. They don't want to be relegated to an over priced, and over sized, Roku.


I can understand your point, but ANY affiliation with another service provider like DirecTV would be good for their bottom line, period. As it stands now they're stagnant and have to do something to grow bigger or even survive.

Something like this would be a great addition to a product like the Roamio OTA. They could still be a DVR for OTA and cable and this way would give a DirecTV customer a viable option as well, instead of that ancient THR22.


----------



## krkaufman

HarperVision said:


> I can understand your point, but ANY affiliation with another service provider like DirecTV would be good for their bottom line, period. As it stands now they're stagnant and have to do something to grow bigger or even survive.
> 
> Something like this would be a great addition to a product like the Roamio OTA. They could still be a DVR for OTA and cable and this way would give a DirecTV customer a viable option as well, instead of that ancient THR22.


I'm with this guy, seeing how the "Bolt" branding fits with the concept of cloud-based delivery. And it'd be especially advantageous if Charter's acquisition moves are successful.


> Charter is currently working to acquire Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks, and Charter CEO Tom Rutledge said that it would deploy Worldbox across its entire footprint if it is successful in purchasing TWC and Bright House. (link)


----------



## Dan203

I dread the day when cloud DVRs are the norm. Only a matter of time before they decide it's advantageous for them to disable FFing through commercials like they already do with VOD.


----------



## Dan203

HarperVision said:


> I can understand your point, but ANY affiliation with another service provider like DirecTV would be good for their bottom line, period. As it stands now they're stagnant and have to do something to grow bigger or even survive.
> 
> Something like this would be a great addition to a product like the Roamio OTA. They could still be a DVR for OTA and cable and this way would give a DirecTV customer a viable option as well, instead of that ancient THR22.


That's why I'm so for a gateway type system for the next CableCARD replacement. Something that is completely system agnostic would allow TiVo to expand to all service providers. But what you've described seems like a bit of a kludge, and I don't think many people would understand that they are buying a DVR that can only act as an app platform for DirecTV.


----------



## tomhorsley

Dan203 said:


> I dread the day when cloud DVRs are the norm. Only a matter of time before they decide it's advantageous for them to disable FFing through commercials like they already do with VOD.


Even if they don't disable it, the controls are really sluggish across a network that is lots higher latency than directly talking to a local hard disk.


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> That's why I'm so for a gateway type system for the next CableCARD replacement. Something that is completely system agnostic would allow TiVo to expand to all service providers. But what you've described seems like a bit of a kludge, *and I don't think many people would understand that they are buying a DVR that can only act as an app platform for DirecTV.*


Who ever said that??? It would be a full TiVo DVR or even a mini, it would just have RVU capability as an app to open and become a thin client for your genie DVR, if you so choose This could be the intermediate step in EXACTLY what you're proposing for a gateway, in this case the Genie DVR by DirecTV!

Maybe they hooked up and talked at this FCC event that was already posted in the thread you're referring to Dan? 



 Go to about 19 mins in when they TiVo guy starts talking after the DirecTV rep. Hmmmmmm.......


----------



## Dan203

That seems to be a link to a Star Wars video


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> That seems to be a link to a Star Wars video


Haha sorry! This should be it: 




I corrected above too.


----------



## Dan203

Nah it doesn't sound like that to me. I watched the whole thing. To me it sounds like the DirecTV guy was asking if TiVo were to offer a service as an app could they allow it to be launched from the top rather then having direct access to the app like they do with Netflix. There was no indication to me that they had ever had any previous conversation about that.


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> Nah it doesn't sound like that to me. I watched the whole thing. To me it sounds like the DirecTV guy was asking if TiVo were to offer a service as an app could they allow it to be launched from the top rather then having direct access to the app like they do with Netflix. There was no indication to me that they had ever had any previous conversation about that.


I wasn't saying they said anything specific to this rvu possibility. Just that it was interesting info when the TiVo rep starting his presentation. Although there were a few hinty type "Hmmmm" moments if I recall. I was merely implying that this could be where the seed was planted and initial meeting took place regarding RVU between DTV and TiVo since they both were the feature presenters. Maybe the TiVo guy saw something they could benefit from in the DTV presentation, in this case maybe as an RVU client?


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## Dan203

It doesn't sound like RVU meet's TiVo's minimum needs. They want apps that allow for search integration. RVU sounds like something that only allows the host to start from the "top". The TiVo guy specifically said they did not want to just be an "app wall". They want to provide an alternative UI for an integrated user experience. It doesn't sound to me like that's currently possible with RVU.


----------



## Dan203

What I heard in that video, especially from the Dish lady, was that the providers (with the exception of Google) want this whole system to just be an app. They want the user to launch an app with their UI and use it for all navigation. Their rebuttal to why someone would buy a box instead of just leasing one if they had the same UI was because it has a different remote or a bigger hard drive. They think 3rd parties can compete on that. This is exactly the same things we heard during the CableCARD 2.0 OCAP debates which the CE manufacturers eventually just gave up on.


----------



## b_scott

the BOLT is not a thing until it's announced. But as for any new Tivo, my 2010 Premieres are still both going strong. I would never much faster speed in addition to full HD menus (does the Roamio have these?) and much better app speeds (I use my Xbox One for all apps because Tivo apps suck).


----------



## aaronwt

b_scott said:


> the BOLT is not a thing until it's announced. But as for any new Tivo, my 2010 Premieres are still both going strong. I would never much faster speed in addition to full HD menus (does the Roamio have these?) and much better app speeds (I use my Xbox One for all apps because Tivo apps suck).


Things are better with the Roamio line. I rarely use my XBOnes for apps because the audio is still borked. It has been messed up since launch with the surround channels mapped incorrectly for 7.1 and higher systems. If they weren't messed up I might use it more but because it is borked if I do use the XBOne for apps, it is only with stereo content.


----------



## lessd

b_scott said:


> the BOLT is not a thing until it's announced. But as for any new Tivo, my 2010 Premieres are still both going strong. I would never much faster speed in addition to full HD menus (does the Roamio have these?) and much better app speeds (I use my Xbox One for all apps because Tivo apps suck).


To go from a Premieres to the Bolt is a no brainer as you will for sure see a big difference, from a Roamio to the Bolt not so much, something that takes 2 sec then goes to 1/2 sec, big difference, going from 1/2 sec to 1/5 sec not so much difference as a user.
But after the Bolt comes out the price of the Roamio will drop, and may be a much better cost deal for a Premiere or TiVo-HD upgrade, don't know if it will make any sense to upgrade the Roamio to the Bolt, as I think the Bolt will be more a replacement for the Roamio and cost less to make for TiVo using newer chips etc. Refreshing a product line is good for sales.


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## b_scott

All depends on what you use Tivo for. If you only use it to record and watch cable, like I do, an upgrade wouldn't be much value when I have to spend $600-700 for the privilege, per box.


----------



## chicagobrownblue

I'll probably get a Bolt if it has just a few pluses compared to my Roamio Basic. I'll try to get lifetime on my Roamio and give it to a friend.

I know, I know the Roamio Plus offers a few pluses to my Roamio Basic. If it gets cheap enough, I may just get the Plus.


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## TiVoEvan74

1. Solid state drive, to eliminate noxious whirring noise of hard drive.

2. Eliminate fan-- larger heat sink, even larger enclosure.

3. Better designed 3rd party apps-- Netflix and Amazon Instant could use larger text.

4. Option to hide the top banner.

5. Relocation of streaming services to a folder on home page.

6. Low cost lifetime service. At this stage, recording much less and other options emerging, would like to avoid too much $ tied to one device!

Do those and we'd bolt to Bolt! (OK, no doubt that pun has been made countless times already.$)


----------



## lessd

TiVoEvan74 said:


> 1. Solid state drive, to eliminate noxious whirring noise of hard drive.
> 
> 2. Eliminate fan-- larger heat sink, even larger enclosure.
> 
> 3. Better designed 3rd party apps-- Netflix and Amazon Instant could use larger text.
> 
> 4. Option to hide the top banner.
> 
> 5. Relocation of streaming services to a folder on home page.
> 
> 6. Low cost lifetime service. At this stage, recording much less and other options emerging, would like to avoid too much $ tied to one device!
> 
> Do those and we'd bolt to Bolt! (OK, no doubt that pun has been made countless times already.$)


A SSD is not good for a TiVo as the buffers are writing 24/7, the life of a SSD would be too short. You can purchase your own 2Tb SSD now for under $1000, go for it.

On the Roamio the fan is very quiet after the boot is done, hard to believe that any problem.

Your 3,4,and 5 could be done.

Lifetime cost has nothing to do with the hardware, newer hardware does not make Lifetime service less costly for TiVo. TiVo could start selling the Bolt for a fixed price that includes Lifetime but TiVo would have too much of a loss on 3rd pty sales because of retail markup to get to any list price, that most likely why there is no 3rd pty sales of Lifetime Service as there once was in the early days.


----------



## trip1eX

Good question. They'd have to do a lot for me to buy one as I don't plan on going 4k anytime soon and the Roamio seems to record tv good enough.


If anything I'd get an OTA version next and try doing without cable.


----------



## lessd

trip1eX said:


> If anything I'd get an OTA version next and try doing without cable.


You can do that now (OTA) with the Roamio, why wait for the Bolt, it has be more costly at first.


----------



## Dan203

I still think the OTA Bolt will include streaming, so as long as its not $130 more then a Roamio OTA it might be worth waiting.


----------



## Mikeguy

But one just never knows . . . absent being a TiVo insider.


----------



## Dan203

Exactly. I'm guessing, so I could be completely wrong. And if I am, and the current deal expires before the Bolt is released, you might regret not taking the current deal. So take my speculation with a grain of salt.


----------



## TiVoEvan74

"A SSD is not good for a TiVo as the buffers are writing 24/7, the life of a SSD would be too short"

Good point! Hadn't thought about that, Les!

OTOH, my point about Lifetime Service $$ was from the standpoint of a consumer... not Tivo! With so many of us moving to streaming, and technology changing (new devices, including by other companies), it just doesn't make a lot of sense to tie up $500 in a device, especially one that might end up being used little or even abandoned! 

It's the first time that I've realized there's good justification for choosing monthly subscription (or annual) rather than buying lifetime.

Plus, with Tivo offering $250 lifetime this summer, one suspects they can still do well with a less costly PLS!


----------



## trip1eX

lessd said:


> You can do that now (OTA) with the Roamio, why wait for the Bolt, it has be more costly at first.


I know. I'm just saying a Roamio OTA is something I'm thinking about more than the Bolt.


----------



## b_scott

TiVoEvan74 said:


> 1. Solid state drive, to eliminate noxious whirring noise of hard drive.
> 
> 2. Eliminate fan-- larger heat sink, even larger enclosure.
> 
> 3. Better designed 3rd party apps-- Netflix and Amazon Instant could use larger text.
> 
> 4. Option to hide the top banner.
> 
> 5. Relocation of streaming services to a folder on home page.
> 
> 6. Low cost lifetime service. At this stage, recording much less and other options emerging, would like to avoid too much $ tied to one device!
> 
> Do those and we'd bolt to Bolt! (OK, no doubt that pun has been made countless times already.$)


1. I don't think I've ever once heard my Tivo. Maybe there's something wrong with yours.

2. See #1

3. Yes

4. Never happen. Ad revenue.

5. I think a redesign of the now playing with apps in a section would be a good idea.

6. Never happen. They make majority of their money from subs.


----------



## jonw747

It's probably not realistic yet as a standard feature, but a 100% solid state DVR would certainly be appreciated for both noise and reliability concerns.


----------



## Dan203

jonw747 said:


> It's probably not realistic yet as a standard feature, but a 100% solid state DVR would certainly be appreciated for both noise and reliability concerns.


SSDs aren't there yet. They have a limited number of write cycles that would cause them to have a very short lifespan in a DVR which is recording from 6 tuners simultaneously 24/7.


----------



## Kremlar

Bah... I built 6 HTPCs 3.5 years ago using SSDs despite the potential for early failure. Each is used regularly, especially my primary one which does most of the recordings for my house. 

Not 1 has failed yet. And the MTBF and TBW ratings of today's SSDs are better than 3.5 years ago.

For the most extreme recording scenarios maybe it's a potential issue, but if prices were better for high capacity SSDs I wouldn't hesitate to use one.

A Crucial 1TB MX200 is rated to write at least 175GB per day for 5 years. That's not too bad.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Kremlar said:


> A Crucial 1TB MX200 is rated to write at least 175GB per day for 5 years. That's not too bad.


So a 6-tuner Tivo SSD would die in 10 to 14 months, depending on typical 12-18 mbps bitrates. Not great.


----------



## jonw747

Dan203 said:


> SSDs aren't there yet. They have a limited number of write cycles that would cause them to have a very short lifespan in a DVR which is recording from 6 tuners simultaneously 24/7.


Well, let's see... 8.6GB per hour * 6 * 24 * 365 would be 452 TB per year.

When the manufacturers of SSD's are only willing to rate their device to last for 100's of TB's, clearly a DVR manufacturer shouldn't go with something that's only rated to last a fraction of a year.

But there are some SSD's that have been independently tested to beyond 2000 TB, and if someone was willing to accept the the risks & cost they may very well get 4+ years recording all the time on all tuners with an SSD.


----------



## Kremlar

I haven't done the math, but that's probably a very high use scenario. I can only speak for my usage, which is probably 3-5 hours of recordings per day, and maybe 1-3 tuners being used to watch live TV at a time mostly during the evening hours.


----------



## Jonathan_S

Kremlar said:


> I haven't done the math, but that's probably a very high use scenario. I can only speak for my usage, which is probably 3-5 hours of recordings per day, and maybe 1-3 tuners being used to watch live TV at a time mostly during the evening hours.


Actually jonw747's scenario don't rely on any particular amount of tv watching or schedule recordings. That's the amount of data written to disk for the 30-minute buffers of the 6 tuners of a Roamio - which happens whether or not you're actively watching TV.

Unless you consistently put your TiVo into standby, or unplug it, that's how much data is recorded every year.


----------



## Dan203

Yeah that's the difference between a TiVo and an HTPC. TiVo records on all 6 tuners 24/7 whether you're watching them or not. Even in stand by. (I think there is one version of the new stand by that doesn't, but it only kicks in after like 4 hours of inactivity)


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## Kremlar

Ahh I see, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## jonw747

Kremlar said:


> I haven't done the math, but that's probably a very high use scenario. I can only speak for my usage, which is probably 3-5 hours of recordings per day, and maybe 1-3 tuners being used to watch live TV at a time mostly during the evening hours.


This is a good point, though.

If an SSD was to be designed in to a DVR (rather than retrofitted), then it could be designed to only write to disk what needs to be recorded extending the typical lifespan.


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## trip1eX

TVoS on Bolt would make me buy one.


----------



## lessd

jonw747 said:


> This is a good point, though.
> 
> If an SSD was to be designed in to a DVR (rather than retrofitted), then it could be designed to only write to disk what needs to be recorded extending the typical lifespan.


Are the trade offs more than what one would get with TiVo and a SSD, on the Roamio I can't hear the hard drive unless I put my ear to the box. Big SSD drives are about 8-10 times the cost of a normal HD. 2Tb SSD about $800 to $950, a 2Tb WD green drive under $90. Why even bother unless you can give me a great advantage like on a Windows boot drive.


----------



## trip1eX

They could go dual drive. SSD for the OS and apps. hard drive for recordings. 

But yeah no need for SSD for recordings. Doesn't make any sense.


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## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> They could go dual drive. SSD for the OS and apps. hard drive for recordings.
> 
> But yeah no need for SSD for recordings. Doesn't make any sense.


According to people in the Roamio forum they already do this with the Roamio line. All the software is on an SSD, which is why you can just drop any drive into the TiVo to upgrade it.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> According to people in the Roamio forum they already do this with the Roamio line. All the software is on an SSD, which is why you can just drop any drive into the TiVo to upgrade it.


 I thought the Tivo software (at least the essentials) are only stored in the Roamio's built-in flash so you can do an easy hard drive replacement. And that the Tivo software is copied to the hard drive when a new hd is installed and it runs from the HD. I didn't think any of it is run from flash storage.


----------



## jcthorne

trip1eX said:


> TVoS on Bolt would make me buy one.


Apple anything on my Tivo would make me take all of them out of the house. I will not buy into their dumbed down, DRM laden world of control.


----------



## ggieseke

trip1eX said:


> I thought the Tivo software (at least the essentials) are only stored in the Roamio's built-in flash so you can do an easy hard drive replacement. And that the Tivo software is copied to the hard drive when a new hd is installed and it runs from the HD. I didn't think any of it is run from flash storage.


It's a NAND memory chip on the motherboard, so I guess you could call it a flash drive or an SSD. The OS is installed there and runs from there. The partitions that get lots of write cycles (/var, Linux swap, SQLite and the MFS partitions) are on the hard drive.


----------



## HarperVision

jcthorne said:


> Apple anything on my Tivo would make me take all of them out of the house. I will not buy into their dumbed down, DRM laden world of control.


Even if it was an amazing OTT streaming TV service like Vue, for half the cost of your cable bill that you can add and cancel at will?


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## aaronwt

HarperVision said:


> Even if it was an amazing OTT streaming TV service like Vue, for half the cost of your cable bill that you can add and cancel at will?


There is no streaming service that could do that and give equivalent quality. It would cost much more than I currently pay for cable.


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## trip1eX

ggieseke said:


> It's a NAND memory chip on the motherboard, so I guess you could call it a flash drive or an SSD. The OS is installed there and runs from there. The partitions that get lots of write cycles (/var, Linux swap, SQLite and the MFS partitions) are on the hard drive.


Oh I didn't recall that anything ran from the flash except an install process. But it's been a few years.

Anyway that just would make including more flash memory for apps and guide data etc even easier and perhaps more likely next time around in the interest of a more responsive machine.

Guide data would seem like it would be accessed faster. STuff like season passes or history and that kind of thing would be accessed faster. Any show thumbnails/info stored locally would pop up quicker.

And any thumbnails/info stored locally in a Netflix app would also pop up quicker. Although maybe an app like Netflix wouldn't launch any faster because the bottleneck is really the login process across the internets.

(I'm assuming none of this is already happening  )


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## trip1eX

jcthorne said:


> Apple anything on my Tivo would make me take all of them out of the house. I will not buy into their dumbed down, DRM laden world of control.


Yeah I would hate to have a much better app platform and streaming from the computer features etc on my Tivo. That would suck.


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## Dan203

TiVo's app platform is fine. They support standard HTML5 apps. The problem is that they have so few users the developers don't have a huge incentive to develop apps for TiVo. If all it was was a matter of an app store then we'd see every app you could imagine in the Opera store, but we don't. Without more users the only way we're going to see more apps is by TiVo making deals with the services directly.


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## jonw747

lessd said:


> Are the trade offs more than what one would get with TiVo and a SSD, on the Roamio I can't hear the hard drive unless I put my ear to the box. Big SSD drives are about 8-10 times the cost of a normal HD. 2Tb SSD about $800 to $950, a 2Tb WD green drive under $90. Why even bother unless you can give me a great advantage like on a Windows boot drive.


"Why bother" is a question that doesn't stop hobbyists from spending their money pushing the limits to try to achieve something. 

My Roamio Plus is in my A/V center where the noise level is not an issue, but unfortunately dust is a factor because of the constant airflow thanks to the fan.

I'm very happy the Mini has neither a hard drive nor a fan and is small enough to fit behind a TV in a bedroom. In theory someone could drop their Roamio in the basement and run a Mini on their main TV.

These are all nice alternatives to spending a ton of money on passive cooling and an SSD that may or may not work; but that doesn't change the fact that a DVR with no moving parts would be ideal.

Obviously it's not worth it to you or to me, but it's a big world, and somebody out there is probably thinking about trying it and/or has already tried it.


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## jaredmwright

How about a Windows 10 app that works on Xbox and all devices, this would be a killer feature with universal apps now. I really hope TiVo sees the potential in the platform and brings the next version of TiVo to all devices via software. If this requires a Bolt, then that would sell me on it and I would dump my Premiere and Roamio in a heartbeat. Hopefully this is supported on the Roamio though and I don't have to. Another feature I would like is a way to change the hard drive by pulling and re-installing without tools. This would make upgrading easier and allow people to put in their size drive. Heck, even allow a drive-less TiVo with an option to add expandable storage at the users discretion. (I know, pipe dream)

TiVo moves so slow, I fully expect to still see SD screens and under powered hardware that barely keeps up with initial launch and quickly falls behind.


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## Dan203

MS is working on an app that can convert Android apps to Windows 10 with very few, if any, code changes. (project astoria) Once that's released maybe TiVo will convert their Android app over to Win10 for us.


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## Tivogre

Seamless integration of live tv and shows into the new Apple TV and Siri search engine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dan203

Unlikely. TiVo is basically a competitor to Apple at this point. One of the main reasons to buy a TiVo is their own universal search. If TiVo just added a few more key apps, and made some of the ones they have already work a bit better, there would really be no reason to own both a TiVo and an AppleTV.


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## Tivogre

No one said this thread was about what was "likely". The question was what would make me buy one. See above for my answer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dan203

Ahhhh.... got it! 

Although technically if they wanted to do that it wouldn't be limited to the Bolt. In fact with the whole app store thing coming to AppleTV you might even be able to install the existing iPad app on the AppleTV. Doesn't really do live TV though.


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## Tivogre

That is the crux of what I'm getting at. If the Apple TV could leverage live tuners and "user recorded content" from the Bolt, THAT would be game changing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dan203

They could add live TV to the existing app if they wanted. They have the ability to borrow a tuner using a Mini, no reason they couldn't do the same thing with the apps and the Stream. Not sure why they haven't actually.


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## bradleys

I just can't think of any "functionality" that would require a hardware refresh other than 4k and a stream in every device.

I suppose they could be updating the stream hardware to be faster and more stable.


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## Dan203

Stream, MoCa, remote finder and wifi bridging across the product line would be nice. 4K is probably only going to be in the Pro model.


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## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> Ahhhh.... got it! Although technically if they wanted to do that it wouldn't be limited to the Bolt. In fact with the whole app store thing coming to AppleTV you might even be able to install the existing iPad app on the AppleTV. Doesn't really do live TV though.


Interesting thought! Since they're going to tvOS I wonder if someone will be able to work it out to be able to sideload iOS apps to it, like we do with Android stuff?


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## b_scott

Dan203 said:


> Unlikely. TiVo is basically a competitor to Apple at this point. One of the main reasons to buy a TiVo is their own universal search. If TiVo just added a few more key apps, and made some of the ones they have already work a bit better, there would really be no reason to own both a TiVo and an AppleTV.


I don't want to speak for them, but it seems they may be wanting a search within channel apps (which don't exist on Tivo, other than cable provider apps like Xfinity on Demand)

Like, bring in apps such as FXNOW and let you search within all of them.


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## jonw747

Dan203 said:


> Unlikely. TiVo is basically a competitor to Apple at this point. One of the main reasons to buy a TiVo is their own universal search. If TiVo just added a few more key apps, and made some of the ones they have already work a bit better, there would really be no reason to own both a TiVo and an AppleTV.


AppleTV's primary purpose has been to help distribute Apple's eco-system (aka iTunes/iMovies/iPhotos/AirPlay/etc) on to TVs and/or sound systems.

If the goal is just to pickup some Apps that TiVo cannot currently steam, there are cheaper ways than the ATV.

If TiVo does go after the TV streaming market, it sure would help if they had an open App store approach like even Apple has finally accepted. Alas, if they were going to do that in a DVR, they'd need to do it in a way such that the whatever those Apps did, they didn't interfere with the recording process.


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## Dan203

They have an app store. The Opera App store. Unfortunately it's not very popular with developers so they've been forced to pursue most of the apps they have directly. Most TV service apps these days are HTML5 and run in the sandbox of the browser, so they can't really interfere with recording or crash the box. The one app on TiVo most likely to crash the whole box is Netflix and it happens to be the one app that's not HTML5.


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## tomhorsley

I'd think the best way to get your favorite apps on your TV is for TiVo to support Miracast so you can display your existing smart phone/tablet/etc on your TV. Now all the apps on your smart device are also on your TV (assuming your smart device supports Miracast, of course .


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## jonw747

Dan203 said:


> They have an app store. The Opera App store. Unfortunately it's not very popular with developers so they've been forced to pursue most of the apps they have directly. Most TV service apps these days are HTML5 and run in the sandbox of the browser, so they can't really interfere with recording or crash the box. The one app on TiVo most likely to crash the whole box is Netflix and it happens to be the one app that's not HTML5.


Just lots of issues there and plenty of room for improvement if that's where they want to go.

Fire TV and Roku 3 raised expectations that running an App on a streaming device should be snappy and responsive. What TiVo has is better than what's typically in other STB's, but if they're going to start competing with streaming boxes they'll need to step up their game.

Of course, the name of the game is content, and getting the most important providers on board. Now that Roku has their own version of universal search, maybe they should just partner with them and basically embed a Roku3 in to the TiVo to handle streaming duties.


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## jonw747

tomhorsley said:


> I'd think the best way to get your favorite apps on your TV is for TiVo to support Miracast so you can display your existing smart phone/tablet/etc on your TV. Now all the apps on your smart device are also on your TV (assuming your smart device supports Miracast, of course .


That would be very smart, as well as supporting the various methods for casting video, but IMO Miracast isn't so much a solution as it is an option. If I want to watch HBO Go, I don't want to have to bother to drag another device in to it; but I will if it's the only way I can do it.


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## NashGuy

TiVo already supports casting, a little bit anyway, through the DIAL protocol.

http://www.dial-multiscreen.org

The only app on TiVo I'm aware of that uses this is YouTube. Launch the YouTube app on your phone or tablet, find what you want to watch and then you can cast it to your TiVo, which will auto-launch its YouTube app and display your selected content. Would be nice if DIAL were implemented in other TiVo apps too, although that should be a lower priority on the streaming front than other needed improvements IMO.


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## krkaufman

NashGuy said:


> The only app on TiVo I'm aware of that uses this is YouTube.


Also Netflix.


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## NashGuy

krkaufman said:


> Also Netflix.


Ah, yes! Cool, thx.


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## BigJimOutlaw

"Stay tuned -- we are pretty close and there will be further announcements this quarter," he said. "We will try to be the first out there with products for UHD."

Sounds like a 4K confirmation.

http://www.lightreading.com/video/4k-8k-video/tivo-hints-at-uhd-launch-in-q3/d/d-id/718175

Still not sure I would upgrade. I'm happy with the Roamio and 4K isn't a thing I need yet. But I am glad to see Tivo a little ahead of the curve on 4K, instead of late like they kinda were with HD.


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## Dan203

BigJimOutlaw said:


> But I am glad to see Tivo a little ahead of the curve on 4K, instead of late like they kinda were with HD.


That had more to do with MSOs dragging their feet on CableCARDs. The S3 was in beta, testing just OTA, for almost a year before CableCARDs were mandated by the FCC and we could actually get one to test with.


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## tlc

Dan203 said:


> TiVo's app platform is fine. They support standard HTML5 apps. The problem is that they have so few users the developers don't have a huge incentive to develop apps for TiVo.





jonw747 said:


> Fire TV and Roku 3 raised expectations that running an App on a streaming device should be snappy and responsive. What TiVo has is better than what's typically in other STB's, but if they're going to start competing with streaming boxes they'll need to step up their game.
> 
> Of course, the name of the game is content, and getting the most important providers on board. Now that Roku has their own version of universal search, maybe they should just partner with them and basically embed a Roku3 in to the TiVo to handle streaming duties.


My only complaint with our _Premieres_ is how bad the streaming apps are. The Romeos might fix the speed (do they?), but Tivo is never going to keep up with Roku3, Fire TV, etc., in terms of app availability and update frequency unless they partner with someone. Embed a Roku3 or Android solution.

Also, when the Roku4 or Fire TV 2 is available with an even faster processor, it's a modest upgrade cost. Unlike an expensive do-all box with Lifetime Service.

They should release their own front-end app (software mini) for the popular streaming boxes. (They demoed one, right?) Then we could have the option of someone else's unified front end. Maybe the Tivo with the weak apps ends up in the guest room, while the Roku3 ends up in the media cabinet.

The streamers are so cheap compared to Tivos+Service, you could try all the candidates and pick the front-end you like.

TL-DR; I'd by a Bolt if there was a way to combine its functionality with more well-supported streaming apps, which might only happen in someone else's streaming box.


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## Dan203

While streaming to a 3rd party device like a Roku is possible the experience is diminished considerably. Most broadcast TV is still MPEG-2. Most of those streaming devices only support H.264. So for you to watch a TiVo recorded show on a Roku they'd have to use the Stream to transcode the MEPG-2 video to H.264. This introduces a performance lag which makes it impossible to do traditional fast forward and rewind. You can only skip. And even then skipping can take a few seconds while the TiVo seeks, streams some video to the Stream, it transcodes it, then sends it along to your device. It can take a couple seconds per skip when using the iOS and Android apps to do a 30 second skip. Also, as of right now, video transcoded by the Stream is always 720p so you lose a bit of resolution too.

So while having the app might make a good choice for a secondary room, or to take with you while you travel, it's not really a good choice for the primary interface to the TiVo.


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## tlc

Good point. I found Zatz's Software mini video and it was talking to a cloud DVR, not a Tivo, so it was probably using H.264. You're right, it can't be the solution I hoped for.

I still don't think that Tivo will ever get enough 3rd party, well-supported streaming apps to be the OneBox, unless they partner or embed Android or something.


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## NashGuy

tlc said:


> They should release their own front-end app (software mini) for the popular streaming boxes. Then we could have the option of someone else's unified front end.


The problem with that, my from perspective, is that I want TiVo and its OnePass feature to be the unified front end. If TiVo were reduced to an app on a streaming box such as Roku, I really doubt the streaming box would do as good a job of unifying the various streaming services PLUS live and recorded TV.



tlc said:


> I still don't think that Tivo will ever get enough 3rd party, well-supported streaming apps to be the OneBox, unless they partner or embed Android or something.


You know, if they changed their app platform from the existing HTML5 to Android in the new Bolt, that might be enough to get me to sell my newish Roamio OTA and upgrade (assuming that they didn't roll Android out to Roamio as well). I don't see that happening but, on the other hand, I think TiVo rightly understands that their major differentiating feature is the unification of broadcast and streaming TV and they have to know that streaming is a weak point for their product relative to competing platforms. So, if TiVo continues to languish with a smallish number of sluggish apps, they eventually may be forced to look for a new solution such as Android.


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## Kremlar

> or embed Android or something


I think that's a fantastic idea.


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## NashGuy

TiVo needs to do something to improve its collection of streaming apps, even if it means simply offering to pay for the cost of porting/recoding select apps to run on TiVo. (Actually, for all I know, maybe TiVo already does this.)


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## Dan203

From what we know there is a good chance the chip they'll be using for the Bolt is ARM based rather then MIPS, so it might actually be possible for them to run some version of Android. The main TiVo software is all Linux based. I wonder how had it would be to port that to Android instead? Maybe they could make the entire platform Android and then they could load any apps they wanted provided they didn't use any of the Google services. (that's why Amazon devices are limited because they can't run Google services)

Edit: Apparently there is a Samsung DVR using a MIPS processor that is running Android, so it's possible that if there were to do this they could port it back to the Roamio and Mini as well.


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## Kremlar

> (that's why Amazon devices are limited because they can't run Google services)


Not sure I follow what you're saying, but just in case you didn't know you can side load the Google Play Store onto an Amazon Fire Phone. I just bought 2 for use as spare phones and for my younger kids to play games/etc.. $120-$130 each including 1 year of Prime ($99) is an amazing deal!


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## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> From what we know there is a good chance the chip they'll be using for the Bolt is ARM based rather then MIPS, so it might actually be possible for them to run some version of Android. The main TiVo software is all Linux based. I wonder how had it would be to port that to Android instead? Maybe they could make the entire platform Android and then they could load any apps they wanted provided they didn't use any of the Google services. (that's why Amazon devices are limited because they can't run Google services)
> 
> Edit: Apparently there is a Samsung DVR using a MIPS processor that is running Android, so it's possible that if there were to do this they could port it back to the Roamio and Mini as well.


Given that Android is open-source and free, and is actually based on Linux, it makes you wonder why TiVo didn't choose that as their app platform back when they opted instead for Opera/HTML5. Maybe they thought the Roamio hardware wasn't up to the task? Or maybe it was simply that set-top Android apps weren't really used by anyone else at the time (which would have been the case, if that was back before the advent of Amazon Fire TV in Apr. 2014). As it stands now, it should be very simple for devs to take a Fire app and tweak it to run on standard Android TV and vice-versa.

Oh, and what is this Samsung DVR you speak of? A Google search turned up nothing for me.


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## HarperVision

NashGuy said:


> Given that Android is open-source and free, and is actually based on Linux, it makes you wonder why TiVo didn't choose that as their app platform back when they opted instead for Opera/HTML5. Maybe they thought the Roamio hardware wasn't up to the task? Or maybe it was simply that set-top Android apps weren't really used by anyone else at the time (which would have been the case, if that was back before the advent of Amazon Fire TV in Apr. 2014). As it stands now, it should be very simple for devs to take a Fire app and tweak it to run on standard Android TV and vice-versa.
> 
> Oh, and what is this Samsung DVR you speak of? A Google search turned up nothing for me.


Maybe they ran into issues similar to what Ceton did when they tried to do something similar with their ill-fated Echo box?

Re: the Samsung DVR, I think it's an MSO device.


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## Dan203

Kremlar said:


> Not sure I follow what you're saying, but just in case you didn't know you can side load the Google Play Store onto an Amazon Fire Phone. I just bought 2 for use as spare phones and for my younger kids to play games/etc.. $120-$130 each including 1 year of Prime ($99) is an amazing deal!


Amazon was a bad example because they actively try to block Google services from working so that you can only use apps designed for their market.

In any case I think if TiVo were to offer Android as an option they'd likely lock it down and prevent side loading because they don't want side loaded apps to effect the stability of the system. They might even run apps in some sort of sandbox so that you can't install any app that effects the system. People would be really upset if their DVR became unstable because some app running in the background caused it to reboot in the middle of their favorite show.


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## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> Oh, and what is this Samsung DVR you speak of? A Google search turned up nothing for me.


It's the Samsung SMT E-5015

Just saw it in a blurb about running Android on MIPS.


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## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> Amazon was a bad example because they actively try to block Google services from working so that you can only use apps designed for their market.
> 
> In any case I think if TiVo were to offer Android as an option they'd likely lock it down and prevent side loading because they don't want side loaded apps to effect the stability of the system. They might even run apps in some sort of sandbox so that you can't install any app that effects the system. People would be really upset if their DVR became unstable because some app running in the background caused it to reboot in the middle of their favorite show.


Not only that, it also costs $$$ to include the Google Play Store and other Google-specific services on a device. While Android itself is free, those other services must be licensed from Google.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/23/how-google-controls-androids-open-source

Also, I checked and yes, TiVo hooked up with the Opera TV Store back in Dec. 2013. At that time, HTML5 apps used on smart TVs and offered through Opera really represented the only open app platform that TiVo could turn to. Everything else used in TV-connected devices (iOS, Roku, XBox, PlayStation) was a closed platform specific to those device manufacturers.

The landscape today, however, is much different given the success of the Android-derived Amazon Fire, as well as the inclusion of stock Android TV in the Nvidia Shield as well as smart TVs from Sony and Sharp. It seems to me that TiVo would be far better off hitching itself to that wagon than Opera/HTML5.


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## jonw747

NashGuy said:


> Given that Android is open-source and free, and is actually based on Linux, it makes you wonder why TiVo didn't choose that as their app platform back when they opted instead for Opera/HTML5. Maybe they thought the Roamio hardware wasn't up to the task? Or maybe it was simply that set-top Android apps weren't really used by anyone else at the time (which would have been the case, if that was back before the advent of Amazon Fire TV in Apr. 2014). As it stands now, it should be very simple for devs to take a Fire app and tweak it to run on standard Android TV and vice-versa.
> 
> Oh, and what is this Samsung DVR you speak of? A Google search turned up nothing for me.


Probably the same reason I'd be hesitant to upgrade to the Bolt if they announced it would be using Android as it's OS. Android is complex and not always stable.

When phone manufacturers recommend rebooting your phone every couple of days to keep it "running smooth" ... that's a red flag.

I'd want evidence first that no matter what happened while running an App, that it wouldn't crash the box or cause me to lose recordings.

That's another benefit to embedding an inexpensive standalone streaming technology like a Roku3. Yeah, sure, it would add expense, but I'd gladly pay an extra $50 to have a streaming box that supports everything integrated right in to my TiVo in a way that it can't interfere with what the TiVo is doing.


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## Dan203

They could sandbox it, or even run it via virtualization, so that an app could never crash the whole system.


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## jonw747

Dan203 said:


> They could sandbox it, or even run it via virtualization, so that an app could never crash the whole system.


They could if the CPU they choose supports it. They could also dedicate separate hardware to it.

But consider, the TiVo UI in the Roamio is nice and fast ... the Opera "sandbox" is slower and clunkier. They took a safe+cheap approach, sure, but ultimately it came at the cost of losing the snappy performance of the rest of the system.

Anyway, my point here is that a major technology shift comes with risk, and while the Bolt may have better specs, it's going to take some time to be sure it's actually a better DVR. The more its changed the more it'll have to prove.


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## NashGuy

Also, I'm not sure that Android (at least when it's properly customized for the device in which its embedded) is inherently less stable than Linux (of which Android is a variant/derivative). And Linux is what TiVo already runs on.


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## NashGuy

I'll also point out that the idea of simple access to a bunch of Android/Fire apps, while something I'd love to see in the TiVo Bolt, isn't something I expect to see at all. That leaked YouTube video of someone beta testing the new "Series 6" TiVo showed them using what appeared to be the same ol' HTML5 YouTube app that we have now. (Although I think I did spot a category of videos in the app labeled 4K.)


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## aaronwt

jonw747 said:


> Probably the same reason I'd be hesitant to upgrade to the Bolt if they announced it would be using Android as it's OS. Android is complex and not always stable.
> 
> When phone manufacturers recommend rebooting your phone every couple of days to keep it "running smooth" ... that's a red flag.
> 
> I'd want evidence first that no matter what happened while running an App, that it wouldn't crash the box or cause me to lose recordings.
> 
> That's another benefit to embedding an inexpensive standalone streaming technology like a Roku3. Yeah, sure, it would add expense, but I'd gladly pay an extra $50 to have a streaming box that supports everything integrated right in to my TiVo in a way that it can't interfere with what the TiVo is doing.


Not sure what manufacturers recommend rebooting the phone, but my android phone and tablets typically go for weeks without rebooting. If the battery dies or there is an OS update are typically the times they get reboooted.


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## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> I'll also point out that the idea of simple access to a bunch of Android/Fire apps, while something I'd love to see in the TiVo Bolt, isn't something I expect to see at all. That leaked YouTube video of someone beta testing the new "Series 6" TiVo showed them using what appeared to be the same ol' HTML5 YouTube app that we have now. (Although I think I did spot a category of videos in the app labeled 4K.)


It looked liked the same app but it loaded quicker. Like three or four seconds.


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## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> It looked liked the same app but it loaded quicker. Like three or four seconds.


Yeah. It also looked like navigation within the app was quicker too. He was really zipping around through the menus. Hopefully some of that is due to new efficiencies within the app and/or underlying TiVo OS (which can be rolled out to Roamios), although it may be purely due to the Bolt's more powerful Broadcom SoC.


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## krkaufman

> *Dan203>* It would also help with situations where two people in the house watch the same show but separately. This would allow each user to "delete" the show when they were done watching it without actually deleting it accidentally before someone else had seen it.


Exactly. But even before deletion, user profiles would eliminate confusion over exactly whose progress is marked by the "watched progress % bars." As things stand now, I have to go out of my way to clear my watched progress on anything I watch, so that the less savvy users in the house don't get confused.


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## zalusky

Software side:

User created tick marks. I have often wanted to save different positions on a show for conversational purposes. IE hit select at any point and it will remember where you are.

User folders and being able to associated one passes with those folders. Maybe associate to multiple folders similar to how we do albums in to photo tools.

The option to have Tivo consistent UIs on the apps like we had with the guide. I HATE (did I say HATE) the UIs for Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, Comcast OnDemand being all different.

Pricing options to opt out of ALL ads.

Software Tivo Mini app for Apple TV - could be an interesting partnership

Hardware Side (not much):

4K compliant


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## krkaufman

zalusky said:


> Software side:
> 
> User created tick marks. I have often wanted to save different positions on a show for conversational purposes. IE hit select at any point and it will remember where you are.
> ...
> The option to have Tivo consistent UIs on the apps like we had with the guide. I HATE (did I say HATE) the UIs for Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, Comcast OnDemand being all different. ...


User bookmarks (tick marks) *would* be handy, especially if shareable via social media; and your "consistent UI" request would be huge. The disjointed UI experience -- but especially the inconsistent playback controls -- makes for a very unsatisfactory experience.


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## krkaufman

Dumping all my user profiles-related wishlist items (replicated from)...


Personalized 'My Shows' listing
Personalized "watched progress"
Personalized 'Partially Watched' subgroup
Personalized streaming app authentication
Personalized social media integration
Personalized Favorites channel list(s!)
Personalized 'Discovery Bar' (though generally blah on the feature)
Personalized Suggestions filtering (typically disabled, for me)

And it would make a whole lot of sense for these user profiles to be OPTIONALLY linked to individualized TiVo.com accounts, allowing for simpler setup across multiple devices -- as well as preferences portability when visiting others with compatible TiVo systems.


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## plazman30

The actual release of the thing will make me switch.

I'm on a a Premiere looking to upgrade. But there is now way I am getting a Roamio if the Bolt is going to be out any day now.


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## Kremlar

Right! I'm ready to order too. Release the damned thing!


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## lessd

I guess one answer to the OP about what would make you or anybody switch to the Bolt would be its release, good point.


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## Dan203

This is sort of unprecedented. In the past TiVo has always released new models either in late Aug/early Sept, or somewhere around the Blue Moon holiday in March/April. At this point I wonder if the delay is intentional or if there was some sort of show stopper bug discovered in Beta that caused them to have to hold it back? If it doesn't get released in the next few weeks I fear they may just hold it back until next year near Blue Moon.


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## aaronwt

If it means they get rid of the ugly color scheme, I would say that would be a good improvement. Did a panel of people actually tell them that it would look better than the color scheme they have been using for many years now?

if I get a Bolt and it looks like the remote I would need to sell the remote right away. And make sure the Bolt is hidden from my view. Because just looking at it would make me want to break it into tiny pieces.


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## b_scott

aaronwt said:


> If it means they get rid of the ugly color scheme, I would say that would be a good improvement. Did a panel of people actually tell them that it would look better than the color scheme they have been using for many years now?
> 
> if I get a Bolt and it looks like the remote I would need to sell the remote right away. And make sure the Bolt is hidden from my view. Because just looking at it would make me want to break it into tiny pieces.


what color scheme are you talking about?


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## slowbiscuit

White, which I agree is hideous for CE components.


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## shwru980r

Before I would upgrade, I would need an assurance that the OTT apps would be updated on the same schedule as other streaming devices and that they wouldn't remove any OTT functionality unless the provider shut down.


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## NashGuy

shwru980r said:


> Before I would upgrade, I would need an assurance that the OTT apps would be updated on the same schedule as other streaming devices


That would be awesome but I don't ever expect that to happen so long as TiVo continues to rely on HTML5 apps or apps coded specifically for TiVo. The platform just isn't popular enough to get the major streaming services to support it the way they do Apple, Android/Amazon Fire, Roku, and Chromecast. Look, for instance, at TiVo's Hulu app. It's rumored to be updated "soon," which I believe would represent the first update to that app since it debuted on TiVo five years ago. How many times over those five years has Hulu updated and improved its app on other platforms? And look at major apps available on virtually all other platforms that we still don't have: HBO, Showtime, ESPN, Crackle, Vevo, Sling TV, etc.

Given that a quarter of the TV hours watched by Americans is now via streaming (and I'm sure higher than that among non-cable/satellite TV subscribers), TiVo really needs to commit to upping their streaming game, especially if they want to compete in the cord-cutter market with the Roamio OTA and new Bolt Aereo Edition. As I see it, TiVo's only real distinction these days is its ability to integrate all of the popular sources of TV so you can watch what you want, when you want, whether its from cable, OTA or streaming. If they only half-heartedly support the third leg of that stool, it really undercuts their marketing message of being a unified entertainment system.


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## Qwijib0

I know this is just software, but I wish it would track watched episodes perpetually so I can set a onepass and have it snag the first N episodes and as I watch them, continue snagging through the series.


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## krkaufman

Qwijib0 said:


> I know this is just software, but I wish it would track watched episodes perpetually so I can set a onepass and have it snag the first N episodes and as I watch them, continue snagging through the series.


Lacking intelligence, I'd like to see the ability to specify a separate "record from" setting within the OnePass configuration that would allow me to specify recording of episodes from a given season/episode onward. The current "Start from" setting simply restricts all content from being displayed/recorded.


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## espurgas

I would like to see dual HDMI output


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## Dan203

espurgas said:


> I would like to see dual HDMI output


Why? With Minis it seems like the primary need for such a feature is eliminated. I guess there are some secondary needs, like feeding a projector, but there are HDMI splitters or AV receivers with dual outputs that could be used in those special cases.


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## b_scott

Dan203 said:


> Why? With Minis it seems like the primary need for such a feature is eliminated. I guess there are some secondary needs, like feeding a projector, but there are HDMI splitters or AV receivers with dual outputs that could be used in those special cases.


word. You can get powered splitters for like $15.


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