# Underground? No Talk of Video Extraction?



## snickerrrrs (Mar 31, 2006)

Underground what's underground about codes or ftp? Maybe "Advanced Tivo programming" might be a better title. 

If you choose to save a program to vcr (or to your pc capture card) or you use a dvd recorder to save a tv program or movie to disk it's just an additional step. Isn't this video extraction? What's the difference? I guess I don't get it. Maybe you all can straighten me out on this.

I can understand not talking about stealing DSS service, stealing is stealing. But using recordings for your own personal use seems like a no brainer. For example I have 48 episodes of the thirsty traveler that I'd like to save to DVD. At 30 minutes per episode thats a full 24 hours of transfer time and storage!

Sorry if I'm ranting but stifling freedom of speech is kind of a pet peeve. Would Tivo even exist if they were afraid to talk about new ideas for improving tv? Oh the networks might sue us! Face it tv is changing because of Tivo. Advertisers are having to include more product placements into movies and tv shows because Tivo users 30 sec skip though commercials. Thanks for listening

PS: let know if this post show be somewhere else, thanks


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

I beleive the talk of LOSSLESS video extraction w/o encryption is forbidden.

Save to VCR introduces loss in quality. Assuming fair use is still observed.

TivoToGo is encyrpted and requires a key. 

Hacking to remove a show from your tivo w/o encryption, producing a perfect, distributable file is forbidden.


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## snickerrrrs (Mar 31, 2006)

I guess I wouldn't want a high quality copy of my shows on dvd when I can have them on video tape!  You can save the movie but you have to watch it on 13 inch black and white TV!  

Thanks Shanew


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

snickerrrrs said:


> ....Sorry if I'm ranting but stifling freedom of speech is kind of a pet peeve.....


It's got nothing at all to do with "freedom of speech". This is a privately owned forum, owned by David Bott, he sets the rules - its his football. See the fifth thread down in this sub-forum, he makes it quite clear that he will not allow talk of "extraction."
So like the football games in the neighbors backyard with his football - you don't like the rules - go home.  
He won't debate you on it, and whatever the rest of us say is irrelevant.  
And if we violate the rules, he will essentially "send us home."


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

Besides it not about free speach its about the DCMA.


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

snickerrrrs said:


> I guess I wouldn't want a high quality copy of my shows on dvd when I can have them on video tape!  You can save the movie but you have to watch it on 13 inch black and white TV!
> 
> Thanks Shanew


They do have DVD recorder combos. Humax I think is the main one.

I see your pain, but the legalities are the way they are. I heard guys can copy DVD's now. is that true?!


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## snickerrrrs (Mar 31, 2006)

Listen, I'm not questioning whether Tivo Community should have rules of course Mr. Bott can make rules. (Is it really a Forum if you only discuss popular ideas?) I'm suggesting that limiting discussion of ideas like the intrusiveness of DMCA for example is a limit to free speech, and that anytime you limit the free discussion of ideas it's a bad idea. It's a easy way to avoid controversy (and the threat of lawsuits) and I can appreciate that. I guess I just think the name underground is misleading. You don't need an underground to discuss ideas that are mainstream. It's the controversial or outside the box ideas that need protection. Bottom line is Tivo is a better product because open discussion on websites like this one. Thanks

PS: Ok i'll get off my soapbox


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

I think you can talk about it all you want. but once you start talking about DOING it and providing details for "educational purposes ONLY", then the rules kick in.

Of course if this thread disappears, maybe I am wrong


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

It boild down to unauthorised access to content. 

The "Analog Hole" allows you to use a DVD recorder or PC capture device.

TiVoToGo is permitted, because that mechanism is sactioned and supported by TiVo, to pull video from the DVR to a computer. Forbidden is decrypting the file (how DSD discussion passes, I don't know).

"Extraction" removes TiVo's and DirecTV's control on that content, which would put this board and its management in a tough position if disission of that subject were permitted, and somebody wanted to make something of it.

"Personal use" is no longer (and maybe never has been) and excuse to defeat copy measures.


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

classicsat said:


> ....The "Analog Hole"....


This is a family forum, you can't use language like that here.  
Oh, you're exercising your "freedom of speech"? Nevermind...


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

There is another forum where extraction talk/software is welcome. See http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152705 for more information on location.

But they won't let you talk about service theft, so no 'Free Speech' there.

Not sure where 'Free Speech' TiVo talk is that has a decent amount of traffic.

-----

The limit is do the DMCA. The owner of this forum feels explicit talk of extraction may be a vioclation of the DMCA, and he doesn't want any lawyers calling and he makes the rules.

He does not limit your 'Free Speech'. You are welcome to start your own forum and talk about digital extraction.


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## vernonator (Jul 5, 2005)

FYI...there is no "Freedom of Speach" in a private arena. It ONLY applies to Gov't infringment. As was said before - this is a private forum and the owner can do as he likes. There are other sources around that have all the info you are looking for. Just not here.....


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