# Alcatraz - Season (Series?) Finale 3/26/12



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

More running this week!

Getting the thread started although I've only watched the first half. I'll be back after the second part tonight, so here ya go.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Running is good.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

The season ended on a good note, best episodes to date... unfortunately, it may be too late to save the show.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I think I want to buy a 2013 Mustang.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Running is good but not with what she was wearing. Pretty good final 2, I have a feeling this is it though.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

She almost made it through both episodes without losing her gun!

Almost.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Wait, that was the finale?!?


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Just realized I missed the 13th episode.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Ummmm...... Those 2 were very nice and quite awesome.....

I mean the 2 episodes.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She almost made it through both episodes without losing her gun!
> 
> Almost.


I honestly laughed out loud when he picked up her gun.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> I honestly laughed out loud when he picked up her gun.


Same here.

You almost have to wonder at this point if they're doing it on purpose...

I have this mental image of a storage locker at Alcatraz filled with handguns...well, not so full any more.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

OK, seriously? That's it?

What was that control board in the Secret Room? Do the little light-up dots move around as the 63s are tracked, or do they have to manually moved? How did Mr Tracking Solution get there in 2012... did he show up 5 minutes ago? There were cans of food around him, like he'd been surviving there...?

And Hauser couldn't pick the lock for that lame-ass third key??

So much of this didn't make sense. Even to the end, they painted Rebecca as the most incompetent cop in the world. She really deserved to die.

I will watch if it gets renewed, but I won't be upset if it doesn't. Great idea, horrible execution.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> I will watch if it gets renewed, but I won't be upset if it doesn't. Great idea, horrible execution.


+1.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

See, here's what bothers me with this type of show: Cancel it or don't cancel it - that's a financial decision that needs to be made and we all understand that. But the networks promote these shows and get the viewers invested, and then when they're canceled we're left hanging. Okay the ratings don't warrant renewal. Fine. But PLEASE - let the producers do a true finale - a two hour wrap up that ties up all of the loose ends. There have been a dozen or more of this type of semi sci-fi show in recent years and in each case we've been left with no explanation or resolution. Bite the bullet - once it's canceled pay for one more long episode. PLEASE


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

The ratings for the finale dropped to a series low. Don't expect it to be back.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

martinp13 said:


> And Hauser couldn't pick the lock for that lame-ass third key??


It was a feakin' skeleton key from the 1800's, a 5 year old could pick that with a bobby pin.

phox


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

We finally got to see a scene that San Francisco was made for, a car chase.

Albeit, a heavily product placed car chase.

Does that ever happen in real life?
Has a police officer ever "borrowed" a passerby's car to chase a suspect?

Maybe back when cops just walked the beat and only criminals were rich enough to have vehicles, or brazen enough to steal rich peoples vehicles.

You'd think there would be real world examples for writers of TV and movies to draw from.


phox


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

phox_mulder said:


> We finally got to see a scene that San Francisco was made for, a car chase.
> 
> Albeit, a heavily product placed car chase.


I think that car chase was underwritten by Ford.
There was a plug about seeing more of the chase on the legendsofalcatrz.com site. (I have not checked it out yet.)

And was it just me or was the car chase a shot for shot remake of the first part of the car chase sequence from "Bullitt" with Steve McQueen?
(And yes, I noticed when they switched from Vancouver to San Francisco and back.)

And I absolutely couldn't believe that when Lucy said, "ask me anything", Soto's first question isn't, "How the f*** did you get here?"

And really Rebecca, you allow a cold blooded killer to stay within arm's reach of you? That might let him do something like, oh I don't know, BURY A KNIFE IN YOUR GUT!

Ok, so the experiments have something to do with being able to track people.
We have still have no idea how these people get to the present.

And I find I don't really care that much either.
I guess that Rebecca's dead and that's the end of the show.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

JYoung said:


> I think that car chase was underwritten by Ford.
> There was a plug about seeing more of the chase on the legendsofalcatrz.com site. (I have not checked it out yet.)
> 
> And was it just me or was the car chase a shot for shot remake of the first part of the car chase sequence from "Bullitt" with Steve McQueen?
> (And yes, I noticed when they switched from Vancouver to San Francisco and back.)


Commercial breaks before and after the chase both had a flashy Mustang commercial in them.

No way was the owner of the classic Mustang going to allow it to be used in the chase, so of course they had to find a new one.

Vancouver doesn't seem quite as hilly as SanFran.

phox


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

JYoung said:


> And was it just me or was the car chase a shot for shot remake of the first part of the car chase sequence from "Bullitt" with Steve McQueen?
> (And yes, I noticed when they switched from Vancouver to San Francisco and back.)


I read a couple weeks ago that the car chase scene was meant to be an homage to Bullitt.

So, I guess Detective Hottie is as dead as the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markb said:


> So, I guess Detective Hottie is as dead as the show.


Nah, she's got some kind of something that she inherited that makes her not dead. That's why they wanted her in the 63-Hunters to begin with.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Zombies!


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Nah, she's got some kind of something that she inherited that makes her not dead. That's why they wanted her in the 63-Hunters to begin with.


No, my point was, she's not dead in the unlikely event the show gets renewed.


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## Alphabull (Nov 9, 2003)

Did anyone else notice they passed the same old style green VW bug like three times during the chase?


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Alphabull said:


> Did anyone else notice they passed the same old style green VW bug like three times during the chase?


So THAT'S how they got from 1963 to now... time-traveling VW bugs!!!


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

Alphabull said:


> Did anyone else notice they passed the same old style green VW bug like three times during the chase?


I think that was deliberate as part of the Bullitt homage. From the IMDB Bullitt goofs page:

"During the chase sequence, the same green Volkswagen Beetle is seen at least 4 different times in 4 different locations in a period of not more than 1 minute."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Don't the Observers drive green Volkswagen Beetles?


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

So this show is dead? It is okay, but I watched it.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

JYoung said:


> And I absolutely couldn't believe that when Lucy said, "ask me anything", Soto's first question isn't, "How the f*** did you get here?"


I don't think she knew at that time before discovering that room. They probably knocked out the 63ers and sent them into the future.

Why 2012 is significant we don't know, but likely they are coming back one by one as they are being sent from '63. Since Tommy Madsen is the advance man I guess he has been the one taking the keys from '63 and bringing them to the future and also setting up the guns for the 63ers and I guess bringing back knowledge so they know how to function when they got here.

Interesting how there are '63ers all across the country as well.

I'm guessing the guy that was controlling the room transported himself from 63 to now because he is/was expecting Tommy Madsen to be the one meeting him.

I'm thinking this all has to do with that missing gold as well, perhaps they sent that to 2012 and have plans for it?



markb said:


> I read a couple weeks ago that the car chase scene was meant to be an homage to Bullitt.


That's the first thing I thought of when the chase started, she was a female Steve McQueen.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

And it was pretty poor police tactics for her to be standing that close to Tommy. He can also talk just fine face down on the ground and cuffed. She was trying to be tough but let her guard down a little and thats what gets you killed.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Nah, she's got some kind of something that she inherited that makes her not dead. That's why they wanted her in the 63-Hunters to begin with.


It seemed like they held the camera on her quite a while after she was pronounced dead. I was waiting for her eyes to pop open.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> It seemed like they held the camera on her quite a while after she was pronounced dead. I was waiting for her eyes to pop open.


Yeah...I have a feeling that the first time we see her in the non-existent Season 2 is a longer version of the same scene ending with that.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

snowjay said:


> I don't think she knew at that time before discovering that room. They probably knocked out the 63ers and sent them into the future.


But Doc doesn't know that!
All her knows that this is the first 63 that is actually willing to answer his questions to him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> But Doc doesn't know that!
> All her knows that this is the first 63 that is actually willing to answer his questions to him.


Yes, this is a classic example of writing the story instead of writing the characters. Because no way would _these _characters let _that _conversation slip past them.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

They could save Rebecca with Tommy's blood since his contains the magic coloidal silver.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

JYoung said:


> I think that car chase was underwritten by Ford.
> There was a plug about seeing more of the chase on the legendsofalcatrz.com site. (I have not checked it out yet.)
> 
> And was it just me or was the car chase a shot for shot remake of the first part of the car chase sequence from "Bullitt" with Steve McQueen?
> (And yes, I noticed when they switched from Vancouver to San Francisco and back.)


You think it was a co-incidence that the bad guy was driving a black current Dodge Charger?

They went so far as to have the green Volkswagen Beetle that shows uip the Bullitt chase like 6 times.

I'm just surprised that they didn't use the Bullitt edition green Mustang.

It just occurred to me that Becka had to commandeer another Mustang because hers was in Vancouver. If a cop told me to get out of mine, I'd tell the cop to try to catch me.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

So these after 50 years these guys finally knew to check for a room underground - even after Hauser told them to find a door the keys fit - and it's the first time they went down the stairs to a passage they never knew about under the lighthouse?

If humanity's survival is in the hands of these guys we may as well party because we're doomed.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

netringer said:


> So these after 50 years these guys finally knew to check for a room underground - even after Hauser told them to find a door the keys fit - and it's the first time they went down the stairs to a passage they never knew about under the lighthouse?
> 
> If humanity's survival is in the hands of these guys we may as well party because we're doomed.


But the door was bricked over, it's not like it was easily discoverable to the naked eye.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

netringer said:


> You think it was a co-incidence that the bad guy was driving a black current Dodge Charger?
> 
> They went so far as to have the green Volkswagen Beetle that shows uip the Bullitt chase like 6 times.
> 
> I'm just surprised that they didn't use the Bullitt edition green Mustang.


No.
You're missing that fact that I had no knowledge of this car chase scene until I actually watched it.
(If there was a commercial about it before, I skipped over it.)
So I didn't know that it was supposed to be a "homage" to Bullitt until I read it here.

And yes, the fact that Grandpa was driving a Charger and did the seatbelt check was a tip off.
Once they took off, I said, "Are they doing Bullitt now?"


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

JYoung said:


> ...
> (If there was a commercial about it before, I skipped over it.)
> So I didn't know that it was supposed to be a "homage" to Bullitt until I read it here.
> 
> ...


We gotta figure that Ford wanted a final try-to-make-good product placement with the lousy ratings of this turkey.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

netringer said:


> We gotta figure that Ford wanted a final try-to-make-good product placement with the lousy ratings of this turkey.


Although as far as product placement goes, this wasn't too bad.

It certainly wasn't as blatant as the Bones Toyota or Avatar ones.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DouglasPHill said:


> Running is good.


Nice sweater.

Nice jiggle.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Why izzit these series introduce new characters in the last episode? The new doctor came outta nowhere. Who were they gonna drop to add him? 

I'm not buying that they would continue without Becka or replace her. She'd get the same blood transfusion as Lucy did.

I guess we can read the way Sarah tweeted that she is done with it even it continues.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes, this is a classic example of writing the story instead of writing the characters. Because no way would _these _characters let _that _conversation slip past them.


I thought they were doing that with Soto's question about what it was like to jump forward in time, but then Lucy answered about how she felt, not what she remembered. And Soto didn't follow up with, "What do you remember about how you got here?"

I don't know why the writers keep avoiding the question. It wouldn't be that hard for them to have her say something like, "The last thing I remember was...and then the next thing I knew I woke up lying on the floor in...and then I contacted Hauser...." without giving away any secrets.

Nonetheless, while I wouldn't have missed this show before the finale, now I will if it doesn't get renewed. Not enough to mail the producers handcuffs, mind you.  But enough that I hope to see a second season.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> ...I don't know why the writers keep avoiding the question. It wouldn't be that hard for them to have her say something like, "The last thing I remember was...and then the next thing I knew I woke up lying on the floor in...and then I contacted Hauser...." without giving away any secrets.
> ...


The writers are/were avoiding that question because they had no frikin idea where they were/are going with the explanation.

You'd think that JJ. Abrams and etc would have at least whiteboarded what it was leading to, but it's obvious that they had second and third thoughts as the season went on.

What happened to the Warden's gold? Where is the warden? How izzit he let those random guys have the precious keys?

What/when did Ray go to work for Hauser and what did he do? They had 63s showing up many years ago?

BTW, it was semi-cool that they made the technology in the secret lab look like the state of the art for 1960. The indicator lights were incandescents. The console was analog like from a power plant. They should have brought in a few classic IBM 9-track tape drives.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

netringer said:


> The writers are/were avoiding that question because they had no frikin idea where they were/are going with the explanation.


An alternative theory is that they just don't want us to know yet, and can't be bothered to come up with an organic way for us not to find out yet.

Neither theory is really acceptable.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

The only thing I will miss is the jiggle. Loved her sweater.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

It occurred to me that the behind the scenes mayhem that Jorge was hinting about was likely Sarah complaining about the crappy scripts and crappy everything, so her last comments are her happy to be free of this disaster.

If they want to make a bid for a second season, the producers need to put the whole show up on blocks and refigure it, starting with anew main character. They may think Lucy can carry it.

Or Ray. Ray has already told Tommy if he sees him again he'll kill him. Now Tommy killed Becka.

We have the new crazy doctor to go with, if they sign him.

They must have decided to save money at the end so the war room of nerds became exactly one guy with crazy hair. (Yeah. One guy was killed with no repercussions whatsoever.)

How about, "You know _HER_ methods! FIX HER!" and then _she_ knew nothing about the metal in the blood stuff. _Her_ methods were shock therapy. The plot of this show is like the Beatles cutting up the tape and assembling it randomly.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I said the same thing about the chase regarding Bullitt as soon as I saw the Mustang/Charger combination - and the Beetle was the icing on the cake. I had to look up the original on YouTube and do a comparison.

As for the plot, when Hurley (ooops, Doc) didn't ask the obvious question of "How??", I lost interest in actually finding out what's going on. If the main characters don't care, why should I?

I would say the chances of renewal are between zero and "Oh heck, NO!".


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

netringer said:


> The writers are/were avoiding that question because they had no frikin idea where they were/are going with the explanation.
> 
> You'd think that JJ. Abrams and etc would have at least whiteboarded what it was leading to, but it's obvious that they had second and third thoughts as the season went on.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> An alternative theory is that they just don't want us to know yet, and can't be bothered to come up with an organic way for us not to find out yet.
> 
> Neither theory is really acceptable.


Considering the behind the scenes problems that Jorge hinted at in his podcast and a web article I read concerning the exit of the show's creator (Elizabeth Sarnoff if I'm not mistaken) during the pilot phase, I'm not sure that the writing staff knew what they were leading to.
It's my opinion that they've been winging it the entire season.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Azlen said:


> The ratings for the finale dropped to a series low. Don't expect it to be back.


Bethany (Jorge's girlfriend), just recently (re)tweeted info from Fox that when they factored in 2-3 days of DVR viewing that the ratings doubled the original numbers. So there's some glimmer of hope.



markb said:


> No, my point was, she's not dead in the unlikely event the show gets renewed.


Assuming they get renewed and Sarah is in it, I could see them putting Tommy's blood into her. It should be a match as it is family.....


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jlb said:


> Assuming they get renewed and Sarah is in it, I could see them putting Tommy's blood into her. It should be a match as it is family.....


Not necessarily, people in the same family can have different blood types.

Plus the silver blood kept Dr Lucy alive, it didn't bring her back to life...and in fact, they were very eager to get silver blood to her _before _she died.

But I don't think it matters. Whatever will stop her from being permanently dead, I think it's already in her.

Unless it's great ratings. If her survival depends on great ratings, yeah, she's dead.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jlb said:


> ...Assuming they get renewed and Sarah is in it, I could see them putting Tommy's blood into her. It should be a match as it is family.....





Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...Plus the silver blood kept Dr Lucy alive, it didn't bring her back to life...and in fact, they were very eager to get silver blood to her _before _she died.
> 
> But I don't think it matters. Whatever will stop her from being permanently dead, I think it's already in her.
> 
> Unless it's great ratings. If her survival depends on great ratings, yeah, she's dead.


She's dead, Jim.

When they transfused Lucy she wasn't cold dead - she was in a coma. Becka is dead dead.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

netringer said:


> She's dead, Jim.
> 
> When they transfused Lucy she wasn't cold dead - she was in a coma. Becka is dead dead.


But I still think she isn't...that there's Something About Her that made them put her in the program in the first place (we know they've been watching her for many years), and that will allow her to survive being dead.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But I still think she isn't...that there's Something About Her that made them put her in the program in the first place (we know they've been watching her for many years), and that will allow her to survive being dead.


They could bring her back but it'll be a cheat. Look for Becka to have a sister that we haven't heard about until now. 

Again, I think they'll need to have some come to Jesus meetings to convince Sarah and the network to stay on - including some decent scripts and a real plan for the plot.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But I don't think it matters. Whatever will stop her from being permanently dead, I think it's already in her.
> 
> Unless it's great ratings. If her survival depends on great ratings, yeah, she's dead.


ROFL 

I keep tellin you guys.... zombies! Lucy is a zombie, and Rebecca will be too!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> I keep tellin you guys.... zombies! Lucy is a zombie, and Rebecca will be too!


But that would shatter the air of plausibility the show has worked so carefully to build...


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But that would shatter the air of plausibility the show has worked so carefully to build...


Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.


I know, right? I keep thinking, "OK, THIS time, it's GOTTA be the French Inquisition!"

They get me every time.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

A couple of things that stick in my mind...

Hauser said to the military guy "Tommy Madsen is active again" so that implies they have been chasing him for a long time, well before we first saw him.

Then just before Tommy stabbed Rebecca he said "did Ray tell you how your parents really died?" which I take to mean he killed them.

So Tommy being the advance man has had him around for a long time it seems. Now does he come and go back or did they just push him forward and the silver is keeping him young?

Why the importance to get the keys and get back to the "control room", just to pick up the evil doc?


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

martinp13 said:


> Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.


Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our *two* weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
.
.
.
And then Alcatraz is simply not renewed, without announcement or fanfare... or fear, or surprise, or...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

snowjay said:


> A couple of things that stick in my mind...
> 
> Hauser said to the military guy "Tommy Madsen is active again" so that implies they have been chasing him for a long time, well before we first saw him.
> 
> Then just before Tommy stabbed Rebecca he said "did Ray tell you how your parents really died?" which I take to mean he killed them.


Right. So why didn't Ray throttle him the first time they met in modern times?



snowjay said:


> So Tommy being the advance man has had him around for a long time it seems. Now does he come and go back or did they just push him forward and the silver is keeping him young?
> 
> Why the importance to get the keys and get back to the "control room", just to pick up the evil doc?


Well, if the mad doctor stayed alive in the dark there for 50 years on a few cans of veggies...

Why would the warden lose the keys in the first place? There aren't any good hiding places in the nooks and crannies on Alcatraz?

Speaking of, they were amazed that Lucy is a 63. How about Doc Rippy?

The warden made a deal with Mr. former convict millionaire to use the warden's gold and then??? keep the keys safe? Because they needed some MacGuffins?


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

netringer said:


> Well, if the mad doctor stayed alive in the dark there for 50 years on a few cans of veggies...


I don't think he did. He made the jump himself. I think Hauser and Lucy would of seen him when they first entered and searched the room.



> Why would the warden lose the keys in the first place? There aren't any good hiding places in the nooks and crannies on Alcatraz?


I'm guessing they were separated like they were so it wouldn't be easy for one person to get them. Access to that room might mean you could manipulate the jumps.



> The warden made a deal with Mr. former convict millionaire to use the warden's gold and then??? keep the keys safe? Because they needed some MacGuffins?


Not sure what he could of done with the gold except invest it and make more? The warden knows this and plans on jumping 50 years to collect his riches.

Why cause all 300 people from Alcatraz to jump (an be tracked)? Since it really only seems a handfull is necessary to make the plan work. Unless that was the only way they could do it, make everyone go missing instead of just the few key players.

Also who bricked up the secret door? It seems like it would of had to of been bricked over before everyone was discovered missing or else someone would of broken in to it after all this time.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

markb said:


> I think that was deliberate as part of the Bullitt homage. From the IMDB Bullitt goofs page:
> 
> "During the chase sequence, the same green Volkswagen Beetle is seen at least 4 different times in 4 different locations in a period of not more than 1 minute."


When they do this kind of thing in an episode of Community y'all call it genius.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not necessarily, people in the same family can have different blood types.


Yes but TV has been traditionally very cavalier about the complexity in blood transfusions so I don't think this is a show stopper.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Yes but TV has been traditionally very cavalier about the complexity in blood transfusions so I don't think this is a show stopper.


That's what I'm saying...you can't use the fact that they're related to say one thing or the other.


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## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

That's it? And no one even thought to ask about the time jump? I'll surrender and admit a good idea fell to horrible execution.

I did like the Bullit homage scenes though...especially the mulitple Old Beetle sightings.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

She's definitely not dead dead (unless there's no season 2 of course). You Know grandpa Tommy is gonna end up being a good guy and he will explain the stabbing as knowing she would heal fine. They could even spin it more by having her evolve somehow from the death experience.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Church AV Guy said:


> Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our *two* weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
> .


Well, since it's a near certainty that the show is canceled, it's more like:

"Nobody expe... Oh bugger!"


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Family said:


> She's definitely not dead dead (unless there's no season 2 of course). You Know grandpa Tommy is gonna end up being a good guy and he will explain the stabbing as knowing she would heal fine. They could even spin it more by having her evolve somehow from the death experience.


Why would she heal fine? Her father was already born before he had the silver in his blood.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

This series had real promise but the writers failed at sweating the details. They should have given them another 6 months of planning and writing before they started filming. So many things weren't thought thru. Just like another series, BSG.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

snowjay said:


> Why would she heal fine? Her father was already born before he had the silver in his blood.


Wasn't there a flashback where Tommy said, "what will happen to me" and the warden replied that he'd either be dead or something else? Then he woke up in that hotel room.

There must be something heritary that Madsen knows about so the writers can bring her back. But we'll never know.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Family said:


> Wasn't there a flashback where Tommy said, "what will happen to me" and the warden replied that he'd either be dead or something else? Then he woke up in that hotel room.
> 
> There must be something heritary that Madsen knows about so the writers can bring her back. But we'll never know.


But I think that was because he was the first getting the colloidal silver tainted blood transfusion, they weren't sure what was going to happen to him.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

snowjay said:


> But I think that was because he was the first getting the colloidal silver tainted blood transfusion, they weren't sure what was going to happen to him.


Obviously you are correct, but like many plot holes in this mess there will be some Fringe explanation like she was part of an experimental program as a child that she didn't realize was related or something. The larger question... do you think if there were a season 2 she's really dead and is her grandfather really that bad of a guy?

I believe eventually they would clean this up, but again we will never know.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

As soon as Lucy made the offer I said to my wife "watch how they waste *this* opportunity". _Lost_ did this too much, especially near the middle, but even at its worst it did it better than this. (Speaking of lost, a big build-up to opening a door at the end of a season to have it lead to a mysterious place full of old technology... yeah, lightning's not gonna strike twice, folks.)

And when the "expert" used the word "jump" and Soto commented on it and then the expert rattled off three increasingly-ridiculous other "explanation"-terms, I thought I could hear the writers saying "If you are expecting an explanation, buddy, you've come to the wrong show." They should have just gotten Basil Exposition to come in and tell us not to think too much about it.

All these "revelations" about Simmons the billionaire and Broadway Mutual (cute name) and the warden seemed really out of nowhere. I don't see anything to suggest they had any of it in mind before they sat down to write this episode. There was no foreshadowing to any of it that wasn't so open-ended it could have been anything.

And yet I have to admit it was one of the most engaging episodes all year. Which is really damning with faint praise! (And I don't mean because of the sweater. Though the sweater was nice -- she normally dresses in such a way that you can't even tell in most shots if she's got anything.)


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Family said:


> Obviously you are correct, but like many plot holes in this mess there will be some Fringe explanation like she was part of an experimental program as a child that she didn't realize was related or something. The larger question... do you think if there were a season 2 she's really dead and is her grandfather really that bad of a guy?
> 
> I believe eventually they would clean this up, but again we will never know.


I think her grandfather is a bad guy.

All they need is a match for her blood from one of the captured inmates.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

As for not asking the obvious question, I was surprised they didn't but I also figured they knew she didn't know how it was happened for the simple fact that Hauser didn't know.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

snowjay said:


> As for not asking the obvious question, I was surprised they didn't but I also figured they knew she didn't know how it was happened for the simple fact that Hauser didn't know.


"Fix her! You know her techniques!"

--"OK, I'll set her up for shock therapy but I don't think we'll turn her from being a criminal."


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

netringer said:


> "Fix her! You know her techniques!"
> 
> --"OK, I'll set her up for shock therapy but I don't think we'll turn her from being a criminal."


I believe the "fix her" comment was referring to her other techniques like listening to recordings to bring her out of the coma and not the shock therapy.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Church AV Guy said:


> Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our *two* weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency


Among our weapons are Fear, Surprise, Ruthless Efficiency, and Fanatical Devotion to the Pope.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

snowjay said:


> I believe the "fix her" comment was referring to her other techniques like listening to recordings to bring her out of the coma and not the shock therapy.


Maybe he meant "We'll have her take up a musical instrument"?

She _does _seem to have a lot of techniques...


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Maybe he meant "We'll have her take up a musical instrument"?
> 
> She _does _seem to have a lot of techniques...


I don't think that was it. 

But in the following episode Beauregard said what he had done and then suggested Hauser read to her.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Lucy was only "mostly dead" :-D


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Alcatraz is not coming back for another season, unless they really can't find enough new stuff to fill up slots next season.

When they say "Bad Robot" they mean it. They put out these bad shows on auto-pilot.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Not. Dead. Yet.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Not. Dead. Yet.


Well, I'm sure the small number of die hard Alcatraz fans will loudly proclaim that if Fox doesn't pick up Alacatraz for another season, Sci Fi or Sy Fy will pick it up, just like they'll pick up Terra Nova.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I doubt Terra Nova will get picked up because it's too expensive. I thought there were rumors that Netflix was going to go for it, but they dropped out because of the cost.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

So what's the final verdict on Alcatraz? I've got the full season setting unwatched on my Tivo. Should I watch it, or delete it unwatched?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

bkc56 said:


> So what's the final verdict on Alcatraz? I've got the full season setting unwatched on my Tivo. Should I watch it, or delete it unwatched?


The overall story is kinda OK, but if you treat it as kinda a cop show w/ chasing a dif criminal every week, it's not bad.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I doubt Terra Nova will get picked up because it's too expensive. I thought there were rumors that Netflix was going to go for it, but they dropped out because of the cost.


I know that and you know that but do _they_ know that?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

bkc56 said:


> So what's the final verdict on Alcatraz? I've got the full season setting unwatched on my Tivo. Should I watch it, or delete it unwatched?


I'd wait and see if they get picked up for another season.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Family said:


> They could even spin it more by having her evolve somehow from the death experience.


You mean they're going to get BIGGER???


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> You mean they're going to get BIGGER???


And metallic! Maybe gilded in gold!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

The warden is more fascinating to watch than about any other cast member.

I've never seen that actor before. Interesting bearing.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I hope it is renewed. I'm much more interested in the scenes that take place in the 60-63 era vs 2012, so replacing Sarah Jones wouldn't be a problem for me. I'd like to see what the Warden and Doc are up to in the old Alcatraz, who's running things in 2012, etc. I'm not particularly optimistic.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

snowjay said:


> And it was pretty poor police tactics for her to be standing that close to Tommy. He can also talk just fine face down on the ground and cuffed. She was trying to be tough but let her guard down a little and thats what gets you killed.


This drive me nuts every time I see it on tv. She was a moron for getting so close.

The last couple of episodes were pretty good. This was another show that doomed itself by having too many early filler and unexciting episodes.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

netringer said:


> The warden is more fascinating to watch than about any other cast member.
> 
> I've never seen that actor before. Interesting bearing.


I totally agree. I'd never seen him before, and he's perfect in the role of the warden.

He vaguely reminds me of Bob Hoskins (when Hoskins plays an American character), however he has a dark, sinister edge that's very different from anything I can imagine Bob Hoskins doing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> He vaguely reminds me of Bob Hoskins (when Hoskins plays an American character), however he has a dark, sinister edge that's very different from anything I can imagine Bob Hoskins doing.


Wow, you must be young.

He used to almost be typecast as scary gangsters. Mona Lisa, Long Good Friday...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't recognize him from anything either. He reminds me of Ed Asner and Bob Hoskins having a baby.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't recognize him from anything either. He reminds me of Ed Asner and Bob Hoskins having a baby.


With Buddy Hacket's mouth - slightly talking out the side.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

You guys are dating yourself (and so am I  )


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, you must be young.
> 
> He used to almost be typecast as scary gangsters. Mona Lisa, Long Good Friday...


I'm 50. How old are you?

What gave you the impression I was young?

I said he reminds me of Bob Hoskins in some ways, but his style of conveying "dark and sinister" is different. I've seen Hoskins portray badasses (both American and Cockney badasses).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> I'm 50. How old are you?
> 
> What gave you the impression I was young?


The fact that you can't see Bob Hoskins as dark and sinister...

But obviously it's not that you're young.

Sheltered? 

Ah, Ninja Edit!


Fish Man said:


> I said he reminds me of Bob Hoskins in some ways, but his style of conveying "dark and sinister" is different. I've seen Hoskins portray badasses (both American and Cockney badasses).


Well, to be fair, that's not what you said...


> He vaguely reminds me of Bob Hoskins (when Hoskins plays an American character), however he has a dark, sinister edge that's very different from anything I can imagine Bob Hoskins doing.


...which made it sound to me like you were saying you can't imagine Hoskins doing dark and sinister.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't recognize him from anything either. He reminds me of Ed Asner and Bob Hoskins having a baby.


That's kind of funny (because it's kind of accurate).


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The fact that you can't see Bob Hoskins as dark and sinister...


I'm not sure if you're kidding.

I've said twice now that his _ interpretation_ of how to play dark and sinister differs from Hoskins', not that I haven't seen Hoskins play dark and sinister.

In fact, it's the "dark and sinisterness" that, in part, made me think of Hoskins in the first place.

And now that we've gone round and round on that enough times...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Back on topic. Am I the only one who enjoys watching Sarah Jones (Rebecca) run?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Back on topic. Am I the only one who enjoys watching Sarah Jones (Rebecca) run?


I can't help but notice that when she runs, her interpretation of dark and sinister differs from Bob Hoskins'...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't recognize him from anything either. He reminds me of Ed Asner and Bob Hoskins having a baby.





Steveknj said:


> You guys are dating yourself (and so am I  )


I would rather date myself than watch Ed Asner and Bob Hoskins having a baby. 

I really wanted to like Alcatraz, and parts of it I did enjoy. But it kept feeling like reading the assignment of a good student who just didn't take the time.


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## steverm2 (May 10, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Back on topic. Am I the only one who enjoys watching Sarah Jones (Rebecca) run?


No you are not! Im late to this thread because my replay button does too.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

danterner said:


> I would rather date myself than watch Ed Asner and Bob Hoskins having a baby.


You can't date yourself, even you should be able to bet a better date than, well . . . YOU!



danterner said:


> I really wanted to like Alcatraz, and parts of it I did enjoy. But it kept feeling like reading the assignment of a good student who just didn't take the time.


That's a good analogy, it was like JJA and company got started on this great idea and didn't deal with some of the inevitable questions that would come up.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Can't fault fox, but it has been cancelled, acording to EW.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

D'amn. Does this mean no more run n bounce?

Will she stay dead?


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Can't fault fox, but it has been cancelled, acording to EW.


Of COURSE I can blame Fox!! Even if this is not their fault, they're still paying for Firefly.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

It sucks that what I thought was an interesting idea was done so poorly.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

VegasVic said:


> It sucks that what I thought was an interesting idea was done so poorly.


Absolutely this.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Not surprised, and while I kind of liked it, I'm really not missing watching it. I did like to watch Sarah Jones though, I'll miss that!!

Another SP to clear off to make room for something else.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Not surprised, and while I kind of liked it, I'm really not missing watching it. I did like to watch Sarah Jones *run *though, I'll miss that!!
> 
> Another SP to clear off to make room for something else.


Edited to reflect my views.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

VegasVic said:


> It sucks that what I thought was an interesting idea was done so poorly.





Mr. Soze said:


> Absolutely this.


Unfortunately true. It was an intriguing idea, poorly executed--the running gag of her losing her gun every week, the unbelievable dialog, and the lack of even the most basic curiousity on their part.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Can't fault fox, but it has been cancelled, acording to EW.


I guess that answers my question about if I should watch all the episodes this summer that I recorded, or just delete them unwatched.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

bkc56 said:


> I guess that answers my question about if I should watch all the episodes this summer that I recorded, or just delete them unwatched.


Well, I think if you enjoy the show, and the process, watch it knowning that it's a closed ended series. As they say, it's the journey, not the destination. If I knew at the beginning what I know now, I would still probably have watched it.


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