# Replace a Primary Bad Hard Drive (system has a WD Extender)



## sheriffA (Feb 22, 2003)

So my series 3 kept on rebooting. Tivo customer support recommended I do the hard drive test and sure enough the Primary disk failed with the extended test with the code of "Fail 7". Tivo said I need a new tivo. I just ordered the premiere. I still want to keep this tivo and put it in my bedroom so I can stream programs from my living room.

So here is my issue. I want to do this for the least amount of money. I'm very tech savvy. I know I need to get a drive and load the image but I've read that i will not be able to use my extended Western Digital Drive if I do this. I don't mind the size of my primary hard drive cause I have the extender. 

So how should I go about this. 
I need to know which drive I should buy and if I can get the image off my existing HD rather than paying for the cake solution. 

Thank you guys in advance.:up:


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## vectorcatch (Nov 21, 2008)

One solution would be to take the drive out of the extender casing and replace your internal hard drive with that.

If you can't get an image off the internal drive, you will have to use instantcake.


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## Robbdoe1 (Dec 29, 2008)

sheriffA said:


> So my series 3 kept on rebooting. Tivo customer support recommended I do the hard drive test and sure enough the Primary disk failed with the extended test with the code of "Fail 7". Tivo said I need a new tivo. I just ordered the premiere. I still want to keep this tivo and put it in my bedroom so I can stream programs from my living room.
> 
> So here is my issue. I want to do this for the least amount of money. I'm very tech savvy. I know I need to get a drive and load the image but I've read that i will not be able to use my extended Western Digital Drive if I do this. I don't mind the size of my primary hard drive cause I have the extender.
> 
> ...


Tivo swapped my S3 out for $49 and they paid the shipping both ways. It was a refurb that they are replacing with a refurb. See if they will do that deal in addition to the premiere.

I'm suggesting this cause the image is probably bad on the drive thats rebooting. You could always try pulling the image with Winmfs and restoring it to the expanders drive as suggested. That may work and will be the most cost effective.

Robb


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

I had Tivo HD with Expander and Sunday it gave out, but after removing the expander, the Tivo was back to normal but with less space. I then took the drive out and used WinMFS to backup and then restored to a 1tb drive. Now I have 157 hrs of HD.


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## Robbdoe1 (Dec 29, 2008)

ThAbtO said:


> I had Tivo HD with Expander and Sunday it gave out, but after removing the expander, the Tivo was back to normal but with less space. I then took the drive out and used WinMFS to backup and then restored to a 1tb drive. Now I have 157 hrs of HD.


Now that you say that he should divorce the expander first and see if that fixes the problem. If the problem is still there then try the backup ideas.

So a THD with a 1tb drive will give you 157 HD hours? Good to know since I'm upgrading this weekend.

Robb


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

I'd avoid the extender entirely, it's just another failure point. Doubles your chance of failure. (Either dying is effectively going to kill all your recordings.)

Replace the internal drive with a $60 1TB drive and be done with it.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Robbdoe1 said:


> Now that you say that he should divorce the expander first and see if that fixes the problem. If the problem is still there then try the backup ideas.
> 
> So a THD with a 1tb drive will give you 157 HD hours? Good to know since I'm upgrading this weekend.
> 
> Robb


Yes, besides, you cannot backup with the expander still married to the tivo. You will lose recordings from the point it was installed but other recordings prior will remain.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

sheriffA said:


> So my series 3 kept on rebooting. Tivo customer support recommended I do the hard drive test and sure enough the Primary disk failed with the extended test with the code of "Fail 7". Tivo said I need a new tivo. I just ordered the premiere. I still want to keep this tivo and put it in my bedroom so I can stream programs from my living room.
> 
> So here is my issue. I want to do this for the least amount of money. I'm very tech savvy. I know I need to get a drive and load the image but I've read that i will not be able to use my extended Western Digital Drive if I do this. I don't mind the size of my primary hard drive cause I have the extender.
> 
> ...


Remove the primary drive from the TiVo, install it in your desktop computer, and run the hard drive manufacturer diagnostics on it to perform a non-destructive scan of the drive, swapping out any bad sectors it finds. Then reinstall the drive in your TiVo (along with your external drive) and see if your TiVo works now.

If that doesn't work, buy a replacement drive and try copying the original primary to the new drive using ddrescue (available on the MFS Live CD). Install the new drive (along with the external drive) and see if your TiVo works now.

If it still doesn't work, buy an InstantCake image for a Series 3, or download a Series 3 image from somewhere, copy it to your new drive, install the new drive in your TiVo, connect the external drive, and you should be good to go. This last attempt will wipe all shows from your TiVo, but it should work unless there is something else wrong other than the primary drive.


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## theguru1974 (Apr 9, 2002)

Thom said:


> Remove the primary drive from the TiVo, install it in your desktop computer, and run the hard drive manufacturer diagnostics on it to perform a non-destructive scan of the drive, swapping out any bad sectors it finds. Then reinstall the drive in your TiVo (along with your external drive) and see if your TiVo works now.
> 
> If that doesn't work, buy a replacement drive and try copying the original primary to the new drive using ddrescue (available on the MFS Live CD). Install the new drive (along with the external drive) and see if your TiVo works now.
> 
> If it still doesn't work, buy an InstantCake image for a Series 3, or download a Series 3 image from somewhere, copy it to your new drive, install the new drive in your TiVo, connect the external drive, and you should be good to go. This last attempt will wipe all shows from your TiVo, but it should work unless there is something else wrong other than the primary drive.


Hey Thom. I'm having the same issue as the original poster (except with a TivoHD). I got a Fail 7 error on the primary drive when running the extended test off of Kickstart 54. I pulled the drive and attached it via SATA to my desktop pc, downloaded the WD Data Lifeguard tools for Windows, ran both quick and extended tests and the tools indicated no problems. Now I'm baffled. Should I proceed on to your second step anyways?

Eric


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## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo S3/HD and S3/HD XL? By which I mean model number and brand?


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## sheriffA (Feb 22, 2003)

I ended up by the new Tivo Premiere but I still want to use my old tivo once I fix it. I would to get linked to all compatible hard drives for my series 3. 

Another question, I plan on networking this from premiere. Will I be able to do this without getting a tivo monthly plan?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

sheriffA said:


> Another question, I plan on networking this from premiere. Will I be able to do this without getting a tivo monthly plan?


You could get a yearly or lifetime plan. But, it won't work without Tivo Service.


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## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

sheriffA said:


> I ended up by the new Tivo Premiere but I still want to use my old tivo once I fix it. I would to get linked to all compatible hard drives for my series 3.
> 
> Another question, I plan on networking this from premiere. Will I be able to do this without getting a tivo monthly plan?


http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7 these are the only Drives by WD that will work without a problem since they are essentially the exact drives used for the DVR extenders and DVR's like Moxi and the cable companies like Motorola and Cisco/SA. http://www.weaknees.com/seagate-db35-hard-drives.php has more info. http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-dvr-hard-drive.php a good place to get them.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

sheriffA said:


> Another question, I plan on networking this from premiere. Will I be able to do this without getting a tivo monthly plan?


No.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Mike Wolf said:


> Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo S3/HD and S3/HD XL? By which I mean model number and brand?


First for the sake of clarity it's good to know how each TiVo model is referred to on the TCF.

FWIW the original Series3 as well as the succeeding TiVo HD and TiVo HDXL are all classified in the "Series3" line (all have a Series3 logo on the front). For our purposes here this is how they are referenced:

Here's a TiVo Series3:









Here's a TiVo HD:









Here's a TiVo HDXL :









The newer TiVo Premiere and Premiere XL are considered part of the Series4 line.

Here's a TiVo Premiere









Here's a TiVo Premiere XL









All of the hi-def TiVo models employ Western Digital hard drives.

The original Series3 = WD2500BS

TiVo HD = WD1600AVBS

TiVo HDXL = WD10EVVS

TiVo Premiere = WD3200AVVS

TiVo Premiere XL = WD10EVVS

All of this information can be found using the Search feature of the TCF.



Mike Wolf said:


> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7 these are the only Drives by WD that will work without a problem since they are essentially the exact drives used for the DVR extenders and DVR's like Moxi and the cable companies like Motorola and Cisco/SA. http://www.weaknees.com/seagate-db35-hard-drives.php has more info. http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-dvr-hard-drive.php a good place to get them.


I know you mean well and want to help, but please don't give out erroneous information. Being new here it will hurt your future credibility and may steer people in the wrong direction. You haven't had the opportunity to gain the experience and background it takes to answer some of the more complicated or even less complicated questions that arise just yet, give it time. Asking a lot of questions about information that can be found by searching just takes up people's time and you don't want to be known to "smeek". 

This particular answer wasn't harmful, but it's not accurate. As mentioned in other responses to your posts on other threads, the WD AV GP drives are _not_ the only drives that will work "without a problem". FWIW Moto and SA boxes often have other brands and types of drives. I've no experience with Moxi so can't and wouldn't say.

There are people here that have been working on and upgrading TiVo's for going on a decade now. No one knows it all certainly and mistakes can be made, but give it some time, read along, do some due diligence before jumping in and making blanket statements that may turn out to be slightly or wholly incorrect. If you want some good advice, take a deep breath, sit back and enjoy the show for a while. Keep in mind though, you get what you pay for here. 

The best place to go for information about upgrading all but the TiVo Premiere line is the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


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## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

Rich thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. Although nothing you've said isn't what I already know as a fact. Just because I may be a bit newer here on the forum does not mean that I am not credible in what I post. I've been working in this field for many years and I do my research so I don't give erronious information. Yes I may sometimes be a bit redundent in what I post, but thats only to allow as many people to see it as needed.
Asking questions is how people learn, by them taking the time to check their references, for example the model numbers listed for the hard drive don't concur with western digital's website. The western digital GP drives are one solution, amoung two others in their AV line, except that the GP drives have the largest capacity. Yes there is no problem with using the seagate AV drives as well, but as I linked to the weaknees site, they would have more information about the topic as well.

If you have a problem with me, please address it to me in a private message and not discuss it on the forum. 
I trust that you can respect that.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Mike Wolf said:


> <snip>for example the model numbers listed for the hard drive don't concur with western digital's website.


I've no idea what WD's website says, AFAIK, there is nothing on WD's website specific to TiVo. If there is please post a link. With regard to the drives, no one here needs to visit WD's website. We have all of the drives from all of the TiVo's listed. I have most of them myself. Those are in fact the correct numbers. As mentioned, we've been working on TiVo's for almost a decade now. You've been here a few days and think we've all got it wrong?



Mike Wolf said:


> If you have a problem with me, please address it to me in a private message and not discuss it on the forum.
> I trust that you can respect that.


I have no problem with you Mike&#8230;but I do feel an obligation to say something to anyone that posts incorrect information. You've only been a member a few days and already have over 120 posts&#8230;you clearly have something to say. Just know that if it's wrong it will be corrected by someone with more knowledge about that particular subject. We were all new once and many of us still make mistakes&#8230;I make my share on a regular basis and I expect to be corrected when I do. Leaving misinformation out there helps no one and could cause people problems. I don't believe either one of us wants that.

FWIW I sent you a PM&#8230;hopefully you'll take some friendly advice and become another valued member of the TCF&#8230;there are a lot of great people here.


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## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

richsadams said:


> I've no idea what WD's website says, AFAIK, there is nothing on WD's website specific to TiVo. If there is please post a link. With regard to the drives, no one here needs to visit WD's website. We have all of the drives from all of the TiVo's listed. I have most of them myself. Those are in fact the correct numbers. As mentioned, we've been working on TiVo's for almost a decade now. You've been here a few days and think we've all got it wrong?
> 
> I have no problem with you Mikebut I do feel an obligation to say something to anyone that posts incorrect information. You've only been a member a few days and already have over 120 postsyou clearly have something to say. Just know that if it's wrong it will be corrected by someone with more knowledge about that particular subject. We were all new once and many of us still make mistakesI make my share on a regular basis and I expect to be corrected when I do. Leaving misinformation out there helps no one and could cause people problems. I don't believe either one of us wants that.
> 
> FWIW I sent you a PMhopefully you'll take some friendly advice and become another valued member of the TCFthere are a lot of great people here.


Listen dude, I'd appriciate it if you would not reply to my posts anymore. It's annoying and opinion based. I understand you feel intitled to your opinions, but please respect that it's not always warrented. As I told you, if you have anything to say, do it in a PM and not continue the drama. I've been a moderator for over 12 years on both forums and chat sites, and I can see when someone is trying to start something.  I truely hope you have a great day.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Okay guys&#8230;don't feed the troll.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

richsadams said:


> Okay guys&#8230;don't feed the troll.


That's a bridge we don't have to cross!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> That's a bridge we don't have to cross!


Even if we do we have no doubts as to what our favorite color isright?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

richsadams said:


> Even if we do we have no doubts as to what our favorite color is&#8230;right?


International Orange..... That is the color on the Golden Gate Bridge.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> International Orange..... That is the color on the Golden Gate Bridge.


As seen from my old abode in Marin.


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## sheriffA (Feb 22, 2003)

Thank you for all of this and after all this time I finally got the hard drive out. Confirmed that the image was bad and had to write all 0s to the drive via the WD software. Now I need an image. I rather not spend 39.99 for something I already paid for but became corrupt through no fault of my own. Any ideas where I can get this for free?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I think the easiest and most cost effective solution is to look for a used S3 on Craig's list. If your current S3 has lifetime service, just replace the drive with the drive from the new S3. If your current S3 doesn't have lifetime service, then call Tivo to move your service to the new S3.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

richsadams said:


> Even if we do we have no doubts as to what our favorite color isright?


Blue . . .No, Green . . . AAAAhhh!!!


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

sheriffA said:


> Thank you for all of this and after all this time I finally got the hard drive out. Confirmed that the image was bad and had to write all 0s to the drive via the WD software. Now I need an image. I rather not spend 39.99 for something I already paid for but became corrupt through no fault of my own. Any ideas where I can get this for free?


I have a S3 image I can give you. Maybe to a file upload/share site? Do you have such an account already set up?


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## The Video Guru (Nov 12, 2007)

First let me say that the goal here is not to spend any money and I do not want a larger internal drive. Tbis is for TiVo HD Series 3. 

I know the WD expansion drive will npt work if you upgrade the internal drive. 

What I don't know is will the WD expansion drive work if I replace the internal drive with an internal drive taken from the same model of tivo? I have a new never uaed TiVo HD Series 3 and was going to swap the drive and power supply. 

I know I will lose all recordings, but will a same-as drive swap still allow me to use my WD expansion drive?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

it should...
the rules are:
Unexpanded internal drive
Approved WD Expander 
Sounds like you would meet both.
You'll have to do a Clear and Delete Everything on the internal drive when you place it in the new Tivo.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

The Video Guru said:


> First let me say that the goal here is not to spend any money and I do not want a larger internal drive. Tbis is for TiVo HD Series 3.
> 
> I know the WD expansion drive will npt work if you upgrade the internal drive.
> 
> ...


I have done this very thing; replaced the failing 250 gb TiVo drive with a new 250 gb drive.

I cloned the original drive to the new drive using linux DD command.

All recordings were preserved.
The external drive did not know or care that the original drive was changed.


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