# Babylon 5 questions



## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Recently Netflix has made B5 available for streaming and it's something I've been interested in a while so I thought I would watch.

I'm only on the 3rd episode. Well, I guess it's the 3rd.

Netflix shows The Gathering as the 1st episode so I watched that, then Midnight on the Firing Line and now I'm watching Soul Hunter.

How long was it (in the show) between The Gathering and Midnight. And why the change of some cast members? Did it have to do with actors/studio? Or was it suppose to be that way within the show?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Queue said:


> And why the change of some cast members? Did it have to do with actors/studio?


The actor, in the case of Tamlyn Tomita (Cmdr. Takashima). It's been a while, I could be mis-remembering. She was to be signed for a limited number of shows for a specific story arc, then decided not to sign for the series at all.

On the other hand, Pat Tallman (Lyta) was rejected by the studio.

Johnny Seka (Dr. Kyle) had to turn down the series for health reasons.

The series starts off a bit slow to establish things, hang in there. It picks up a lot in the second season.

Mike


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

The definitive site for B5 information. Try not to get ahead on the episode guide!


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## MirclMax (Jul 12, 2000)

Queue said:


> How long was it (in the show) between The Gathering and Midnight.


Thank you for the heads up that B5 is now available!

To answer your question.. 1 year. Jan 2257 and then Jan 2258.

(FYI: They mention the year in the opening sequence)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Enjoy. B5 is one of my all time favorite TV series. J. Michael Straczynski did a superb job with it.


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

I don't remember the time frame, but I think the length of time between making the gathering and making getting Babylon 5 accepted as a series and the first series produced may have been something like 3 to 5 years.

Just checked - looks like it was four years.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kmccbf said:


> I don't remember the time frame, but I think the length of time between making the gathering and making getting Babylon 5 accepted as a series and the first series produced may have been something like 3 to 5 years.
> 
> Just checked - looks like it was four years.


???

No, it was one year. The pilot aired in February 1993, and the series premiered in January 1994.


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## MirclMax (Jul 12, 2000)

I would guess that he's using the fact that JMS was working on "The Gathering" in 1989 .. that's when it was being shopped around to studios.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

"...Star Trek: Deep Space Nine controversy
The pilot episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) aired just weeks before the debut of Babylon 5. Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski indicated that Paramount was aware of his concept as early as 1989,[56] when he attempted to sell the show to the studio, and provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and plot synopses for the first 22 episodes.[57][58] Paramount passed on Babylon 5, but later announced Deep Space Nine was in development after Warner Bros. announced its plans for Babylon 5. Straczynski has stated on numerous occasions that he thinks Paramount may have used his bible and scripts as the basis for DS9's first season.[59][60] On the subject of suing Paramount for infringement, Straczynski indicated he had no intentions to do so, and added:

That we have decided - for the best interests of all - to take a mature, 'let's move forward' approach does not mean that I have to pretend nothing happened. [...] It's on the level of 'Okay, YOU (Paramount) know what happened, and I know what happened, but let's try to be grownup about it for now,' though I must say that the shape-changing thing nearly tipped me back over the edge again.
The fact that the two shows were so similar at that time, one a nobody show from nowhere, the other bundled with the STAR TREK name, came within an inch of killing Babylon 5. That's one of the main reasons why it took nearly a period of four months [after the first pilot telefilm] before we finally got the go order for year one, after everybody crunched the ratings, and the demos, and decided to take a chance on it. And even THEN we were told, 'The syndie market can't sustain two shows like this; you're gonna get creamed...."


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

MirclMax said:


> I would guess that he's using the fact that JMS was working on "The Gathering" in 1989 .. that's when it was being shopped around to studios.


Right! According to the lurkers, it began filming in '89 as well. With that much of a time frame, a lot of changes took place.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kmccbf said:


> Right! According to the lurkers, it began filming in '89 as well. With that much of a time frame, a lot of changes took place.


Ah, no. According to Lurker's, it started filming in August 1992, a few months before it aired.

It's not unusual for a show to be in development for many years, but that doesn't change the fact that B5 had only one year between the time the pilot aired and the time the series proper premiered, and less than a year between the time filming started on the pilot (8/92) and filming started on the series (three episodes are filmed by the time Con season starts in July 93).


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ah, no. According to Lurker's, it started filming in August 1992, a few months before it aired.
> 
> It's not unusual for a show to be in development for many years, but that doesn't change the fact that B5 had only one year between the time the pilot aired and the time the series proper premiered, and less than a year between the time filming started on the pilot (8/92) and filming started on the series (three episodes are filmed by the time Con season starts in July 93).


You're right, I was in a hurry and miss took the date for the development for the filming date. In the sme way I missed the "in the series" part of the OP.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I wish some station would broadcast Babylon 5 reruns. It's funny how some shows are in constant syndication while other shows seemingly just disappear. I wouldn't mind seeing the first couple of seasons of Andromeda too.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Yes, I'm here.  In case, you know, you didn't think I'd post.

For fun, Queue, if you look back at old posts, some of us TCF folks did a B5 rewatch a few years ago at 3 episodes a week. It was a lot of fun, but there's a thread for every episode. The only thing that was tough, at least for me, was trying to keep the posts strictly to that episode and prior, having seen the entire series many times.

Midnight on the Firing Line

You can go from there if you want, there's a thread for The Gathering somewhere, but there were issues of spoilers (the special edition gives away some serious stuff).

Greg


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I wish some station would broadcast Babylon 5 reruns. It's funny how some shows are in constant syndication while other shows seemingly just disappear.


I've been puzzled by that as well. It may be that the TV rights are pretty tangled up due to the way that the original syndication was done (with PTEN and TNT in the mix), whereas Warners may own the DVD rights completely. I have the DVD set, so I can watch when I want, but it would be nice to catch some new viewers

Mike


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JMikeD said:


> I've been puzzled by that as well. It may be that the TV rights are pretty tangled up due to the way that the original syndication was done (with PTEN and TNT in the mix), whereas Warners may own the DVD rights completely. I have the DVD set, so I can watch when I want, but it would be nice to catch some new viewers


I wonder if it's also not the nature of the show. It's pretty heavily serialized, and that's not the kind of show that tends to do well in syndication, where viewers are less likely to be able to watch every episode. That's why stuff like Seinfeld and Law & Order get aired endlessly, because you can just watch whatever episodes you can catch without ever missing anything. But Babylon 5 requires real commitment.

And I suspect _most _of the people willing to make that commitment have already seen it!


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

That's a good thought. _Lost_ may suffer a similar fate. In fact, it may already have. I don't remember many reruns after the new episodes the last several years.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Yes, it's really five miles long.


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## bellvis (Aug 1, 2000)

JMikeD said:


> That's a good thought. _Lost_ may suffer a similar fate. In fact, it may already have. I don't remember many reruns after the new episodes the last several years.


Isn't that partly due to the fact that ABC (supposedly) listened to fans who were sick of all the reruns and wanted to see the season straight through?


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

sgsmith said:


> The definitive site for B5 information. Try not to get ahead on the episode guide!


Man...I remember that site being one of my favorite during the series run. I can't believe it's been 12 years since the finale. (I never gotten into the other series afterwards.)


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I wonder if it's also not the nature of the show. It's pretty heavily serialized, and that's not the kind of show that tends to do well in syndication, where viewers are less likely to be able to watch every episode. That's why stuff like Seinfeld and Law & Order get aired endlessly, because you can just watch whatever episodes you can catch without ever missing anything. But Babylon 5 requires real commitment.
> 
> And I suspect _most _of the people willing to make that commitment have already seen it!


I suspect this is true. So many shows have started serializing their story lines, that I wonder if they aren't shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to syndication. On the other hand, DVD sales I'm sure go way up. I have all of the B5 DVDs and I know people who are planning to buy all of the Lost DVDs when they come out. Serialized TV show are some of the most in demand titles when it come to library check out nd our venders tell us the same is happening with sales.


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

OMG. I've started reading the Lurker site and I can't believe all the stuff I'm overlooking. I never imagined this show was so in depth and planned. There's so many nuances I've missed. I'm on the 11th ep now and I want to go back and start over at The Gathering.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Queue said:


> OMG. I've started reading the Lurker site and I can't believe all the stuff I'm overlooking. I never imagined this show was so in depth and planned.


That's because you're used to everything else that's ever been on TV. 

B5 is nothing like any of it.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Wow. I hadn't been on the _Lurker's Guide_ for a very long time, and I'd forgotten about all the Star Trek fans pointing out that JMS got it wrong because ST didn't do it that way. Drove him (and me) up the wall.

Mike
a fan of the original ST series


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

Been a Star Trek Fan since the show was first aired. I think of my self as a trekkie, (never liked the word trekker, we were trekkies first.) B-5 is in my opinion the best SF series ever aired. Others have been better acted and had episodes that were better written, the new BG for example and Firefly, but b-5 was consistant with through out the series. I remember that there were lines that appeared to be throw-aways in season one that ended up being a major turning point much later in the series. It's a show that improved on the second watching be cause of the "Oh yeah!, that ties in with this in the last season." factor.

Sorry, fellow Trekkies, trekkers. B-5 had it right.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

What's hilarious about the B5 vs. Star Trek thing is that for some odd reason there was a certain contingent of Trek fans who thought you could only ever have science fiction if it were Star Trek, and anything else was garbage. Sometimes they were right (they tried to sell Space Rangers to us/them at a convention once, showed the entire first episode). This time they were wrong.

To this day, you'll find Star Trek fans who will argue that B5 copied Deep Space Nine.

I spent a good amount of the run of Lost trying to explain that it really is possible to plan a story out long form, using Babylon 5 as an example. I was proven right in many ways, but when "Adam & Eve" proved to be similar to an incident on Babylon 5 (hope that was vague enough), their response was "Oh well they retconned." You can't win.

Welcome to the club, Queue. 

Greg


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

Blast, I started reading the episode summeries on Luker again. Now I'm going to have to watch the whole series again, because I'd forgotten just how good it was since I watched it last year.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

kmccbf said:


> Blast, I started reading the episode summeries on Luker again. Now I'm going to have to watch the whole series again, because I'd forgotten just how good it was since I watched it last year.


Me, too! :up::up:


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

I think it's going to become a yearly thing.


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Something weird is going on with Netflix and it's episodes. I choose S1 Ep 12 (Survivor) but it plays S1 Ep 16 (Grail).


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Queue said:


> Something weird is going on with Netflix and it's episodes. I choose S1 Ep 12 (Survivor) but it plays S1 Ep 16 (Grail).


Hm, played Ep 16 on Netflix and it plays Survivor. Weird.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

kmccbf said:


> I think it's going to become a yearly thing.


It was a yearly thing for me for a while, but now there's so many things to watch that I don't have time to even watch them during the TV season, and end up watching THOSE during the summer.

I'm also hoping we'll start a Lost rewatch here pretty quick (hint, hint, all).

Greg


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I wish some station would broadcast Babylon 5 reruns. It's funny how some shows are in constant syndication while other shows seemingly just disappear. I wouldn't mind seeing the first couple of seasons of Andromeda too.


Don't forget that way back after it finished it's original run it was being rerun almost constantly in episode order.



gchance said:


> It was a yearly thing for me for a while, but now there's so many things to watch that I don't have time to even watch them during the TV season, and end up watching THOSE during the summer.
> 
> I'm also hoping we'll start a Lost rewatch here pretty quick (hint, hint, all).
> 
> Greg


I have yet to crack the wrapper on the DVDs for this very reason and of course I got the whole set when it first became available.

All I have left to watch from January is Epitaph 2. Thank goodness for the Olympics cutting the February primetime season in half.

And of course now we have Eureka and Warehouse 13 starting their new seasons... *sigh*


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

ronsch said:


> All I have left to watch from January is Epitaph 2. Thank goodness for the Olympics cutting the February primetime season in half.


I have you beat there, I think I have 6 episodes of Dollhouse left. I have maybe 10 episodes of The Office, 5 or 6 of The Good Wife, and those are just off the top of my head. There's probably 20 to 30 shows of varying #'s of episodes on there.

Greg


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Wow! I just finished the last three hours of chuck yesterday. Now all I have left of the regular Network shows is four hours of NCIS LA. But then I'm already behind on several Summer shows(with more starting this week plus I still have the last seven episodes of The Pacific to watch.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

That doesn't sound so bad. I still have Reaper, Supernatural, and others from way back to catch up on.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm still working on Battlestar Galactica Season 2.


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## cthomp (Dec 24, 2001)

If you are interested in podcasts try this.

http://www.babylonpodcast.com/


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I originally watched B5 when TNT picked it up for season 4 or 5, I forget which. They showed a TV Movie and then did seasons 1-4 one episode a night for the whole thing. I was able to catch up completely, then watch the last season. I enjoyed it greatly.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Magister said:


> I originally watched B5 when TNT picked it up for season 4 or 5, I forget which. They showed a TV Movie and then did seasons 1-4 one episode a night for the whole thing. I was able to catch up completely, then watch the last season. I enjoyed it greatly.


I did that, too, rewatched as they replayed, and used their repeats to replace my VHS tapes with cleaner copies (when it originally aired, I was recording on an already-old VCR that was mono only). Of course, now I have the DVD's. 

Greg


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> Wow! I just finished the last three hours of chuck yesterday. Now all I have left of the regular Network shows is four hours of NCIS LA. But then I'm already behind on several Summer shows(with more starting this week plus I still have the last seven episodes of The Pacific to watch.


I was well over 100 hours behind on my tv viewing from this last season, and then my hard drive crashed, so that solved that problem. (Although I'll have to track down some dvd's to catch up on some, and others I think we'll just abandon the series, from what little glimpses I got through the year, I'm not sure I can take anymore Grey's Anatomy.)

I do need to dig out the B5 dvd's sometime and watch that again though. It's been a while for me.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

When I did my very large VHS to DVD project, I managed to find, buried in all my 1200 tapes, everything ever broadcast about Babylon 5. That included all the Crusade episode, In the Beginning, River of Souls, Thirdspace, A call to Arms, as well as Legend of the Rangers. I forgot how good some of those episodes were. It really was great to watch them again.

I keep hoping JMS will break down and do some more B-5, but he has a stock answer to this. He says he would really like to, but since Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas firmly insist on staying dead, and he won't use substitute actors in the character roles, he just can't.

Sigh...


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

A tongue-in-cheek answer. He did that Direct-to-DVD B5 project (Lost Tales?) without either of them.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

JMikeD said:


> A tongue-in-cheek answer. He did that Direct-to-DVD B5 project (Lost Tales?) without either of them.


And the sales of the Lost Tales weren't good enough to justify making more.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

On July 13, 2008, Straczynski revealed that he had no plans to continue The Lost Tales. He said that although the studio was interested in another disc, they wanted to budget the next installment similarly to the first. Citing his disappointment with the first release due to the low budget, Straczynski said he did not want to dilute Babylon 5's legacy with further sub-par stories. He stated that he would only return to the Babylon 5 universe if Warner Bros. wanted to do a large-budgeted cinema release.

From rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated via Wikipedia


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

If the Lost Tales sales had been better, the studio would have happily forked over more money for the next installment.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

You win.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JMikeD said:


> On July 13, 2008, Straczynski revealed that he had no plans to continue The Lost Tales. He said that although the studio was interested in another disc, they wanted to budget the next installment similarly to the first. Citing his disappointment with the first release due to the low budget, Straczynski said he did not want to dilute Babylon 5's legacy with further sub-par stories. He stated that he would only return to the Babylon 5 universe if Warner Bros. wanted to do a large-budgeted cinema release.
> 
> From rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated via Wikipedia


Crap. I would have loved another Babylon 5: Lost Tales HD digital download to watch.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

OMG...I totally forgot about the Lost Tale...I know I bought it, but I never watched it...

cool...something to watch this weekend...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Crap. I would have loved another Babylon 5: Lost Tales HD digital download to watch.


To be honest, I'm not sure I would.
I wasn't thrilled with the Lost Tales.
It was ok but nothing great.

The lack of budget really hurt it, IMO.

And as I recall, based on the reviews I read, people's comments here and a couple of other places, it only got a lukewarm reception

I mean it was nice to see Sheridan again (Lochley was only ok) and his bit wasn't that bad of a character piece but to me, Bablyon 5 wasn't so much about the little things as it was the big picture.

And I think that's what hurts the Lost Tales.


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

I "sort of" liked the lost tales. I had a little problem with the editing. There were basicly two stories and the jumped back and forth between them. Either would have been a good episode by themselves, but they didn't really fit together.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

There are a number of things I specifically remember that were outstanding. Not to give anything away, but I was not a great fan of Jerry Doyle. I don't know why, but I just wasn't, UNTIL his character, Garibaldi, had a traumatic experience and his acting changed, not a lot, but very consistently. He very subtily changed character,and I would think such a minor shift in character would be very difficult, but he managed it really well. Suddenly, I was a big admirer of his acting ability.

All of the major characters on B5 had slow character changes as the events unfolded. It was truely a development of the people and not just a static character-driven set of stories.

The single most startling thing about Lochley was


Spoiler



that when we were told that she had been married to Sheridan, it was suddenly obvious that he had been married THREE times, once to a Military Cast (Lochley), once to a Working Cast (Anna) and lastly to a Religious Cast (Delenn).



There were a lot of things that were so realistic. Ivanova got hurt in a scuffle in an episode, and for the next few episodes she was using crutches or a cane as she recovered. And of course, the "signature" of B5 was / were the storylines that were begun so casually in season one or two that didn't play out until season four or five. Many of these caused the wife and I to have to look at the the earlier episodes again to see the start of some of the threads.

There are bunches of profound and dramatic lines from many characters. Did JMS wake up some morning and say to himself, well, I need to come up with something really DEEP for <character> to say today? Talk about pressure.

There were some amazing characters, like Bester and Zathras.

What a great series.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> The single most startling thing about Lochley was
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Cast*e*. Just saying. 



> There were a lot of things that were so realistic. Ivanova got hurt in a scuffle in an episode, and for the next few episodes she was using crutches or a cane as she recovered.


That was even more realistic than you think. 

The _actress_ actually got hurt for real filming that scene and they worked the fact that she needed crutches or a cane into the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> That was even more realistic than you think.
> 
> The _actress_ actually got hurt for real filming that scene and they worked the fact that she needed crutches or a cane into the show.


I don't remember if this was that, but there was a time when a character got injured in the script, then was injured off-camera, and the on-screen injury magically changed to the real-life injury (an arm to a leg or something). I have a vague memory that it was Ivanova getting shot in the arm, and then Claudia Christian fell off a horse and broke her leg so suddenly Ivanova got shot in the leg instead of the arm, but it could have been somebody else...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't remember if this was that, but there was a time when a character got injured in the script, then was injured off-camera, and the on-screen injury magically changed to the real-life injury (an arm to a leg or something). I have a vague memory that it was Ivanova getting shot in the arm, and then Claudia Christian fell off a horse and broke her leg so suddenly Ivanova got shot in the leg instead of the arm, but it could have been somebody else...


okay, yeah, you're right. Ivonava was never supposed to get hurt, but then CC broke her foot and they worked that into the episode, giving her a scene where she gets injured, and then had the character on crutches for as long as CC needed them.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

I'm pretty sure the broken leg thing happened during the Green! Purple! fight. Man, it's been too long, I don't remember the episode or the rave that had the fight. Time was I could recite chapter and verse about B5.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I wish some station would broadcast Babylon 5 reruns. It's funny how some shows are in constant syndication while other shows seemingly just disappear. I wouldn't mind seeing the first couple of seasons of Andromeda too.


If you have Netflix they just added it to their Instant Streaming.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Michael S said:


> If you have Netflix they just added it to their Instant Streaming.


:up:

I see all five seasons will be available for streaming until July 1st 2011.

I think it's time to watch one of my favorite episodes again, The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, from Netflix streaming.

Thanks for the info.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

The time where someone got injured during filming and they left it in was Garibaldi. There's a scene where you can see his arm at a weird angle. Doyle insisted they finish filming and incorporate the injury into the scene.

By the way, JMS said that he never intended for the three wives of Sheridan thing to work out how it did, and he was as amused as the rest of us when it became clear.


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Finished S1 yesterday. I'm really impressed with how JMS had everything figured out before the show aired. I've been reading through the lurkers guide and I'm also amazed how he responded to fan feedback. More than once I've seen him say he'll work stuff into a future script if the fans wanted to hear more about the topic.

He had a paragraph or two about how much control him and another guy had over the dialogue. Pretty awesome to keep continuity.

I started S2, I don't like the change of actors but I think I'll get use to it. JMS said having Sinclair do everything was a little much for that character but I wonder how the events of Babylon Squared will play in later.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Queue said:


> I started S2, I don't like the change of actors


Quite a few people had that reaction, and I could see where they were coming from, even though I had the opposite reaction.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Anubys said:


> OMG...I totally forgot about the Lost Tale...I know I bought it, but I never watched it...
> 
> cool...something to watch this weekend...


following up...I found the DVD and watched it...a total waste of time...I can see why they won't be making any more...it wasn't even fun from a nostalgia perspective (and I LOVE B5)...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JMikeD said:


> Quite a few people had that reaction, and I could see where they were coming from, even though I had the opposite reaction.


Yeah, me too. Bizarre that Bruce Boxleitner would be an improvement as an actor, but Hollywood is strange.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

i remember being pissed at the end of the first season. But by the end of the second season I was pleased with what happened. And as it plays out anyway many things tie together throughout the five seasons..


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Magister said:


> I originally watched B5 when TNT picked it up for season 4 or 5, I forget which. They showed a TV Movie and then did seasons 1-4 one episode a night for the whole thing. I was able to catch up completely, then watch the last season. I enjoyed it greatly.


That's how I watched too. Could never get into it when I was in college but my dad always raved about it. I caught up that summer TNT showed it daily. Awesome summer!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

When the cast change first happened, it was jarring, sort of like Dr. Crusher being replaced with Dr. Polaski, it just didn't seem to fit... but Bruce endears to the audience REAL quick. Early on I started liking his character more after his sister showed up.

Greg


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gchance said:


> When the cast change first happened, it was jarring, sort of like Dr. Crusher being replaced with Dr. Polaski, it just didn't seem to fit... but Bruce endears to the audience REAL quick. Early on I started liking his character more after his sister showed up.
> 
> Greg


great actors tend to do that!


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Fleegle said:


> I'm pretty sure the broken leg thing happened during the Green! Purple! fight. Man, it's been too long, I don't remember the episode or the rave that had the fight. Time was I could recite chapter and verse about B5.





Hunter Green said:


> The time where someone got injured during filming and they left it in was Garibaldi. There's a scene where you can see his arm at a weird angle. Doyle insisted they finish filming and incorporate the injury into the scene.
> 
> By the way, JMS said that he never intended for the three wives of Sheridan thing to work out how it did, and he was as amused as the rest of us when it became clear.


Both of you are correct regarding the source of the injuries although I'm pretty sure it was a broken foot, not a broken leg.


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

I own all of the B5 seasons. I converted them to video files to be served up to my Tivo from my computer.

I started to re-watch the series. The first season had Michael O'Hare as the commander. I got curious as to why he left. And found this on the wiki page:



> As Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski describes it,[3][4][5] during the filming of the first season of Babylon 5, O'Hare began having paranoid delusions. Halfway through filming, his hallucinations worsened. It became increasingly difficult for O'Hare to continue work, his behavior was becoming increasingly erratic and he was often at odds with his colleagues. O'Hare sought treatment for his mental illness, but feared that, as the main character of Babylon 5, taking an extended medical leave of absence would destroy the show just as it was getting off the ground.
> Straczynski offered to suspend the show for several months to accommodate O'Hare's treatment for his mental health; however O'Hare refused to put so many other people's jobs at risk. Straczynski agreed to keep his condition secret to protect O'Hare's career. O'Hare agreed to complete the first season but would be written out of the second season so that he could seek treatment. He reappeared in a cameo appearance early in season two and returned in season three for the double episode "War Without End", which closed his character's story arc. He made no further appearances on Babylon 5.
> Although his treatments were somewhat successful, he was never fully cured. Upon O'Hare's return to Babylon 5, Straczynski promised again that he would keep his condition secret to his grave. O'Hare told him to "keep the secret to my grave", pointing out that fans deserved to eventually learn the real reason for his departure and that his experience could raise awareness and understanding for people suffering from mental illness. On May 25, 2013, eight months after O'Hare's death, Straczynski fulfilled his promise and finally revealed the reasons behind O'Hare's departure from Babylon 5 at the Phoenix Comicon.[6]


I didn't know he had a mental illness this bad. I feel sorry for him and wondered how the series would have played out if he had stayed.

I'm glad he allowed people to know after his death what had happen to him.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I had no idea he had died.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

hairyblue said:


> I own all of the B5 seasons. I converted them to video files to be served up to my Tivo from my computer.
> 
> I started to re-watch the series. The first season had Michael O'Hare as the commander. I got curious as to why he left. And found this on the wiki page:
> 
> ...


I remember being pissed at the time when he was replaced. But in the end I think the show was better without him and with Bruce Boxleitner there instead.

I had no idea though that the mental illness was the reason he left. That used to be one of my favorite shows. I used to keep up with things about it. But it's been many years since i've read stuff about the show. But I will still see just about any movie or show that J. Michael Straczynski is attached to as the writer.

I'm looking forward to watching the Sense8 series on Netflix later this year. Which he wrote along with the Wachowski brothers siblings


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Wow. I did not know that. Thanks for posting!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Some day, I bet (hope) that JMS will write a tell-all book about the making of B5...


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

a reviewer on amazon suggest to watch the series and movies in this order

he says it makes the most logical sens to view them this way and you don't get many spoilers this way

1. Watch the B5 movie "The Gathering"
The Babylon 5 pilot movie The Gathering was originally broadcast in 1993 a full year ahead of the regular show.
2. Season 1
3. Season 2
4. Season 3
5. Watch Season 4 up to episode "The illusion of truth"
6. Watch the B5 movie "Thirdspace"
7. Season 4: continue with episodes 9-22
8. Watch Season 5 through to and including episode "Objects at Rest"
9. Watch the B5 movie "River of Souls"
10. Watch the B5 movie "In the Beginning"
This is a prelude set 10 years before Babylon 5. Against the logic of the title, I would strongly recommend seeing it at this stage. Should one see it before Season 1, much of the suspense in the main series would be ruined.
11. Watch the B5 movie "A Call to Arms"
This movie lays the groundwork for the spin-off TV series "Crusade".
12. Watch the B5 movie "The Lost Tales" [Thanks to Eric Pregosin for his comments to build on the original list]
13. Watch the B5 movie "The Legend of the Rangers" [Thanks to Lisa for her recommendation]
14. Watch Crusade Series
15. Season 5: watch final episode "Sleeping in light"

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3AOX2...=B002DUJ9Q6&nodeID=2625373011&store=movies-tv


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Some day, I bet (hope) that JMS will write a tell-all book about the making of B5...


Rob, he has, it's in a series of Script books offered by Cafe Press. I don't know if they are still available, but he had his scripts and intros about them, and a second series called Other voices which collected the scripts of the other writers of the series.

There was a special 15th volume that went out free to all the people that bought the series that included amongst other things the original plan of the series as well as that of the Sequel series Babylon Prime.

Let's just say that things were quite different from what we wound up with in the details, but the bones remained.

He also started one on Crusade called What the Hell Happened, but that's seen only one volume so far.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I was curious to see what caused this thread to be resurrected after being dormant for so long. Of course, I had no idea about Michael O'Hare's condition or the fact that he had passed. I was a huge fan of B5 and I've seen every episode multiple times as well as the movies and the Crusade series. I was devastated to learn that all of the CGI for the original show had been lost or destroyed and that there was no way to bring the show back in HD. Perhaps JMS might be convinced to reboot Crusade on SyFy at some point and pick up where they left off.

jamesl - thanks for the chronology of the show. I had already seen everything you listed, but the timeline seems to be spot on from what I remember.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

This YouTube video has an interview with JMS regarding Michael O'Hare, sharing what was said above, but it's interesting to hear it.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> Rob, he has, it's in a series of Script books offered by Cafe Press. I don't know if they are still available, but he had his scripts and intros about them, and a second series called Other voices which collected the scripts of the other writers of the series.
> 
> There was a special 15th volume that went out free to all the people that bought the series that included amongst other things the original plan of the series as well as that of the Sequel series Babylon Prime.
> 
> ...


I slavishly bought the whole set and then realized what I had gotten myself into. It was a case of thinking I wanted it a lot more than I really did, I love the summary books, but will probably put the standard season 1-5 books up on ebay at some point.


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

Marc said:


> This YouTube video has an interview with JMS regarding Michael O'Hare, sharing what was said above, but it's interesting to hear it.


Thanks for posting this. JMS is a great guy. He was very compassionate for O'Hare and his problem. I admire him even more.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Perhaps JMS might be convinced to reboot Crusade on SyFy at some point and pick up where they left off.


He may not have the rights to do that. Warner's own _B5_, it's not a stretch to say that TNT may have all or some of the say in a _Crusade_ project.

On the other hand, JMS has the movie rights to _B5_, and it looks like something is in the works:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/ne...ys-j-michael-straczynski.html#~p6gyeCLxbtuKpq


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JMikeD said:


> He may not have the rights to do that. Warner's own _B5_, it's not a stretch to say that TNT may have all or some of the say in a _Crusade_ project.
> 
> On the other hand, JMS has the movie rights to _B5_, and it looks like something is in the works:
> 
> http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/ne...ys-j-michael-straczynski.html#~p6gyeCLxbtuKpq


It would be nice if it actually makes it to the big screen. But I'm not going to hold my breath.


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

Wow - I always thought that O'Hare didn't really work out and JMS replaced him. That's one thing I found remarkable about B5 and how JMS wrote it - he went with the flow, adjusting and changing the story as needed. It's hard to imagine the main arc without Sheridan in it.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> It would be nice if it actually makes it to the big screen. But I'm not going to hold my breath.


According to Joe, He'll be writing the script this year and offering it to WB to be involved first. If WB declines, he has said that Studio JMS will be doing the production.

He hopes to get it in front of cameras in 2016.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Ah, thread bumps. 

I remember figuring out in the middle of Season Three that I should have been recording the show all along because I wanted to go back and rewatch it -- and the things in Season Four that had me yelling at the screen: "Oh CRAP he set that up in Season One."

I remember from the time it got syndicated, some people were recording a week's worth of shows, cutting out the commercials and most of the intros, and making each week into mini-movies. 

And I got into a great discussion with a friend about how the perception of a show can change wildly, depending on whether the person watched it while it was originally broadcast (where you had to wait a week for the next installment) vs. on DVD, where you could suck down several episodes in a row. 

Now I want to pull out the DVDs and watch it again.

Fun times.

And I miss Andreas Katsulas.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

I would love to watch the whole series from the beginning. Is there anyway without buying all the DVD's?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I would love to watch the whole series from the beginning. Is there anyway without buying all the DVD's?


Netflix has all five seasons available to rent on disc.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

And they also have all the B5 movies on disc to rent. I looked for those last night. I used to have all those DVDs but I think I got rid of them when I domated all my DVDs to a charity.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Ok who just started renting the B5 discs?  They were in my queue last night and today the first disc went to long wait. After this B5 talk I had added them to the top of my queue. But since it went to wait status, they shipped me the B5 movies instead.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

For those who may be interested in watching Babylon 5, I just discovered that it's available for streaming at go90.com. Post-paid Verizon Wireless users can stream content from go90 over cellular at no charge (it's considered "FreeBee Data").


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I would love to watch the whole series from the beginning. Is there anyway without buying all the DVD's?


And I just say a link saying Babylon 5 is coming to Amazon Prime on June 1, 2018.
*Coming to Amazon Prime Video *
*June 1st*


_1492: Conquest of Paradise_
_2 Days in the Valley_
_All or Nothing: New Zealand All Blacks_, season 1
_Allan Quatermain and the Lost City of Gold_
_As Good As Dead_
_August Rush_
_Babylon 5_, seasons 1-5


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

I wonder whether Amazon will have the SD or fake-HD version of the series.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Marc said:


> I wonder whether Amazon will have the SD or fake-HD version of the series.


What's the fake version? How does that work?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> What's the fake version? How does that work?


Presumably because it's upscaled from an SD master, not taken from film or HD elements.


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## redrouteone (Jun 16, 2001)

I bought the entire series on Amazon streaming Ike 5 or 6 years ago. It has been a while since I watched it, but IIRC it is the fake-HD version. It dosen’t actually look too bad, except for the CGI cut scenes. Those look terrible.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Presumably because it's upscaled from an SD master, not taken from film or HD elements.


Ah, understood. Thanks.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

RGM1138 said:


> What's the fake version? How does that work?


"Fake" was probably the wrong word. I was referring to this post from @JYoung when I was talking about buying Babylon 5 on Vudu. The episodes on Vudu are 4:3.



JYoung said:


> If it's the same transfer as the ones used for the DVDs, it's not going to look that good on an HD set.
> 
> The DVDs are in a 16:9 format (IIRC, JMS tried to shoot it so that it would be acceptable to both 4:3 and 16:9 but not all directors followed that edict.) and Warner Brothers didn't really do any clean up for the transfer.
> 
> ...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Yeah, I have to admit that I was pretty disappointed with the quality of the DVD transfer.

I understood going in that it was going to be SD but it really looks like Warner Brothers didn't do any clean up work before making the DVD masters.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

So If I have Amazon Prime I will be able to watch it?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

JMS has stated recently the contract with Warners required the production of a 35mm film print of this series to be made in 4:3. He says Warners has these in storage, and could produce an HD version easily. It would be in 4:3, but it would be hi-def. I would gladly put up with the older aspect ratio in order to have a pristine HD copy that would not fuzz out every time there was CGI on the screen.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JMikeD said:


> JMS has stated recently the contract with Warners required the production of a 35mm film print of this series to be made in 4:3. He says Warners has these in storage, and could produce an HD version easily. It would be in 4:3, but it would be hi-def. I would gladly put up with the older aspect ratio in order to have a pristine HD copy that would not fuzz out every time there was CGI on the screen.


Although the FX shots would still have to be upscaled from SD...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although the FX shots would still have to be upscaled from SD...


But at least they would be framed properly, and hopefully without the screwed up interlacing flags from the DVD transfer.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

dcheesi said:


> But at least they would be framed properly, and hopefully without the screwed up interlacing flags from the DVD transfer.


Yep. Since JMS's original plan to have the CGI re-rendered for widescreen failed[1] and now you'd probably have to recreate all the computer models from scratch so new HD CGI is wildly unlikely I'd much rather have the full original aspect ratio SD CGI than the cropped down to 16:9 CGI that was released on the DVDs. Losing about 1/4th of content hurt it, especially for the space combat scenes.

[1] IIRC due to changes in technology, graphics houses, and some companies possibly going out of business the raw data was no longer available to redo the render with. So his, correct, insight that rendering power would be much cheaper by the time widescreen or HD became widespread turned out to be irrelevant because he hadn't anticipated that the original files might not be available to rerun the renders from (and the cost of recreating it from scratch is too high for anything less popular and prestigious than Star Trek TOS)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jonathan_S said:


> Yep. Since JMS's original plan to have the CGI re-rendered for widescreen failed[1] and now you'd probably have to recreate all the computer models from scratch so new HD CGI is wildly unlikely I'd much rather have the full original aspect ratio SD CGI than the cropped down to 16:9 CGI that was released on the DVDs. Losing about 1/4th of content hurt it, especially for the space combat scenes.
> 
> [1] IIRC due to changes in technology, graphics houses, and some companies possibly going out of business the raw data was no longer available to redo the render with. So his, correct, insight that rendering power would be much cheaper by the time widescreen or HD became widespread turned out to be irrelevant because he hadn't anticipated that the original files might not be available to rerun the renders from (and the cost of recreating it from scratch is too high for anything less popular and prestigious than Star Trek TOS)


And honestly, his plan to future-proof the series by having it framed so it could be shown 4:3 or 16:9 was a pretty dismal failure as well. It's obvious a lot of the directors just didn't understand (or care) what he was going on about, and just shot for 4:3. It's amazing how many ill-framed shots there are on the DVDs (cropped chins, etc.).

A 4:3 HD blu-ray taken from the original 35mm master would be the ideal, final presentation.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I bought this on Vudu some time back when it was on sale for pretty cheap, since I never watched it the first time around. Its definitely worth watching, though that pilot episode was pretty cringe-worthy acting-wise.


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## redrouteone (Jun 16, 2001)

Yeah the first season is kind of hard to get through, but it picks up after that.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

redrouteone said:


> Yeah the first season is kind of hard to get through, but it picks up after that.


I ripped all my B5 DVDs to Plex last winter- and I'm still trying to get through Season 1.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I just checked Amazon on my Nvidia Shield and they want $1.99 per episode or $29.99 per full season. It's also only in SD. WTF?


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

It's not June 1st yet. And there are no HD versions of Babylon 5.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

They're out there now, all 5 seasons of episodes, and The Gathering. And as expected, the episodes are the same funky 16:9 transfer with all the their inherent framing and CGI problems.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

kdmorse said:


> They're out there now, all 5 seasons of episodes, and The Gathering. And as expected, the episodes are the same funky 16:9 transfer with all the their inherent framing and CGI problems.


Took a quick look at Midnight on the Firing Line and it looks the same as the DVD transfers to me.
(with the caveat that I haven't looked at the DVDs for a while)

Streamed the first 30 seconds of The Gathering. it is 4:3 and it has the Stewart Copeland score so I'm assuming that it's the original version.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I decided to start watching them as 5 years worth of a way to pass time on the treadmill. The audio seems strange sometimes to me, perhaps the tablet and the speakers on the treadmill are just different, but background sounds and effects sometimes seem much too loud.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

It's getting close to the "time to do a remake" time.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Just checked she I don't see Babylon 5 on Prime in Canada. Hmm, wonder who has the distribution rights.


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## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2006)

kdmorse said:


> They're out there now, all 5 seasons of episodes, and The Gathering. And as expected, the episodes are the same funky 16:9 transfer with all the their inherent framing and CGI problems.


When I searched in Tivo I saw a few episodes listed as on Amazon Prime but most still Not Available. When I searched in the Amazon Prime app they were all visible. I'll give Tivo a few days to catch up.

Merging the databases and correctly offering to view as a Tivo stream is one of the major Tivo market differentiators. Every single miss hurts their value. I just noticed there's a season 4 of Torchwood visible in Amazon Prime but not in Tivo - I'll complete that before watching another series.

The Expanse and Lost in Space as both ahead of Babylon 5 in my current queue but mostly because I'm such a B5 fan I can nearly quote the episodes as they play.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Amusing Babylon 5 coincidence this morning. I'm watching season 1 while on the treadmill, and when I stopped for a bit and looked at my pedometer, I'd reached 2258 steps .


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tomhorsley said:


> Amusing Babylon 5 coincidence this morning. I'm watching season 1 while on the treadmill, and when I stopped for a bit and looked at my pedometer, I'd reached 2258 steps .


Good thing you weren't watching I, Claudius!


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

Despite it's tiny budget B5 got one thing right, scale. With B5 you believe that you are on a station with a couple of hundred thousand people, on DS9 the exterior scale is all wrong and way to small.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

So Is Delenn still in it?


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

Saturn_V said:


> I'm still trying to get through Season 1.


Seriously just skip to season 2, well the last episode of S1. If you like it go back and watch Season 1 sometime. Season 1 doesn't do much by itself - but it lays down stuff for later.

This site has a list of critical S1 episodes - Babylon 5 condensed: How to watch sci-fi's most intimidating masterpiece - Geek.com . Looks like the finale (ep 22)

Lurker's Guide has detail on episodes. Lurker's Guide: Episode List .


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

This thread has me rewatching, I'm up to S01E19 as of last night.
@Saturn_V I know it's a slog, but there are so many seeds planted in S01 you don't get some of the satisfaction seeing them play out in S04 and S05 and that's something I really enjoy, including my current rewatch where I'm watching the seeds even in mediocre episodes. FWIW the Amazon copies appear to be using the same masters as the DVD sets, I'm only watching on Amazon to keep track of where I am.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Me watching B5 was a long, strange road. When it first started up I was in grad school in Santa Barbara. I watched the movie/pilot when it aired, and thought it was simply dreadful. So I ignored the show when it launched, but some of my friends were watching and liked it, so I gave it another try (I think it was the first Bester episode), and still hated it. A couple years later, I had moved back to Minneapolis and was working on my dissertation. At times, I was working on ways to avoid working on my dissertation. A friend who was far, far more of a geek than even me lived across the hall, and he had been trying to get me to watch B5 since I returned. At one point, my desperation to avoid working on my dissertation got the best of me, so I borrowed his Betamax and his tapes of all the episodes that had aired so far (they were in the mid-season break for season 3, i.e., War Without End was the latest episode).

I watched the first season, and found myself often thinking "Yep. Just as awful as I remember." But towards the end of the season it started to get more interesting, and I was still pretty desperate to not work on my dissertation, so I kept going. And Season 2 was much better. And Season 3 was AWESOME! That last run of episodes before the break was peak B5.

And then I got to War Without End, and had to wait a few months to start watching it one week at a time, just like everybody else.

It's a strange and wonderful show. The writing is often quit bad; JMS writes relationships like everything he knows about them he learned in junior high. The dialog is often cheap and hammy. The acting (especially the human characters) is often cheap and hammy (there were a couple of amazing alien performances).

And yet! The scope of the show was breathtaking. The way it never lost sight of the big picture puts virtually every heavily serialized show made since to shame. For such a cheap show, the FX were ambitious and, while they look pretty much as cheap today as they were back then, back then they really elevated the show. I've always thought that if JMS had served as showrunner and, instead of writing virtually the entire shebang, simply supervised other scriptwriters, that might have been enough to overcome his personal writing weaknesses and elevate the show to pure, unadulterated greatness (instead of the impure, adulterated greatness it achieved).

I really do need to watch it again. Maybe this summer...although I'm not looking forward to slogging through those first dozen or so episodes!


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I really do need to watch it again. Maybe this summer...although I'm not looking forward to slogging through those first dozen or so episodes!


Watch this just before your rewatch (huge spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it).


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's a strange and wonderful show. The writing is often quit bad; JMS writes relationships like everything he knows about them he learned in junior high. The dialog is often cheap and hammy. The acting (especially the human characters) is often cheap and hammy (there were a couple of amazing alien performances).


Agreed. Even so, it remains my favorite SF TV series.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

Babylon 5 is going to be coming to Comet TV. I'm going to assume next month.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1030454992489115650


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

and I'm currently up to S05E08 and as always SE05 is disappoointing from the amazingness of SE04 which is to be expected, after it's done it's the TV movies and then Crusade.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Michael S said:


> Babylon 5 is going to be coming to Comet TV. I'm going to assume next month.


Never heard of CometTV, but they have a Roku App, so&#8230;.Thanks!


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Michael S said:


> Babylon 5 is going to be coming to Comet TV. I'm going to assume next month.


I just checked to see what channels it broadcasts in my area and they're all standard definition channels. I want my HDTV!!!!!!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Comet.tv looks to be HD on the Roku App.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

dianebrat said:


> Crusade.


IIRC, Crusade was not good and the music was awful.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

cwerdna said:


> IIRC, Crusade was not good and the music was awful.


Yes, it was pretty bad, which is why it got cancelled after only 13 episodes. The order in which the episodes occur in the timeline is also in question. There seems to be a discrepancy between the order in which they aired and the order in which they should be viewed.

The thing I loved about B5 is that seemingly random episodes played a part in the overall story line. An episode that just seemed like it was filler turned out to be key several years later. The acting was definitely bad, but the CGI was decent for the times so it made for an enjoyable experience overall. It's pretty cheesy compared to what we see today, but back then it was cutting edge for TV.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Yes, it was pretty bad, which is why it got cancelled after only 13 episodes.


 The story that Straczynski tells about _Crusade_ is that TNT started interfering so much during the filming of the 13 episodes that he called it quits and Warners stopped the show. He alleges that TNT got cold feet and decided to kill the show by interfering so much that Warners/Straczynski didn't have much choice but to bail out. He does have some credibility, and has quit shows before because of studio or network interference.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> IIRC, Crusade was not good and the music was awful.


It was different, and while not up to B5 levels, it's still better than most and an important part of the B5 universe, and at 13 episodes a pretty painless show.
It's acting and characters are more developed than B5S01 even if the story isn't as deep and cut off way too short thanks to TNTs meddling.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I watched B5 on discs borrowed from a co-worker who had everything. He told me the order to watch everything. I did. It was pretty bad across the board: casting, acting, dialog, fx. Its only saving grace was the story and Andreas Katsulas. As much as everyone raves about the story bribe planned from day one I don't. BSG and Lost had this problem, for sure, but they aced everything else. As for B5 nobody will ever convince me that they didn't rush to finish everything in S4 because they thought they were getting cancelled. S5 was a bolt on.

I would definitely watch a re-make, though.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wprager said:


> As for B5 nobody will ever convince me that they didn't rush to finish everything in S4 because they thought they were getting cancelled. S5 was a bolt on.


Well considering it's known and confirmed that JMS had to rush everything planned for Season 5 into Season 4 and S05 was not optimally planned I don't see how you need "convincing" of something that's already a fact


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wprager said:


> As for B5 nobody will ever convince me that they didn't rush to finish everything in S4 because they thought they were getting cancelled. S5 was a bolt on.


Well considering it's known and confirmed that JMS had to rush everything planned for Season 5 into Season 4 and S05 was not optimally planned I don't see how you need "convincing" of something that's already a fact


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Because they said they had it planned like this all along, initially. I think the story lines in S5 was probably supposed to be a single episode epilogue.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DS9 was out the same year, 1993. I'd argue FX were better than B5. Budget was higher, I get that. And you could argue that by doing CGI they were laying the groundwork for shows that came after - like BSG.

All in all, it was an important show in the history of small screen sci-fi. But I would welcome a re-make with a serious budget


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> Because they said they had it planned like this all along, initially. I think the story lines in S5 was probably supposed to be a single episode epilogue.


No, originally the stuff in season 4 & 5 were both supposed to be spread out over two seasons, blended together. When they announced the show would be canceled after Season 4, they re-jiggered it so that some stuff was pulled out and the rest compressed. Then when the show went on after all, they used the excised stuff to build a new Season 5.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, originally the stuff in season 4 & 5 were both supposed to be spread out over two seasons, blended together. When they announced the show would be canceled after Season 4, they re-jiggered it so that some stuff was pulled out and the rest compressed. Then when the show went on after all, they used the excised stuff to build a new Season 5.


That was when TNT decided to pick up the final season. It got dumped by the network and then they jumped in and finished it.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, originally the stuff in season 4 & 5 were both supposed to be spread out over two seasons, blended together. When they announced the show would be canceled after Season 4, they re-jiggered it so that some stuff was pulled out and the rest compressed. Then when the show went on after all, they used the excised stuff to build a new Season 5.


A couple of other factors affected the flow of Season 5. First and foremost was the very abrupt and surprising departure of Claudia Christansen who played Ivanova. It was very last minute and really threw JMS into a bad scramble to write her out and still keep the story going. She was going to take on a lot of stuff that later got moved to Lyta's story line. Primarily the whole Byron storyline would've been him and Ivanova not him and Lyta.

At the same time (and at the fan convention in Blackpool England), the hotel moved Joe's room and in the process threw out all of his note cards he'd written concerning season 5. They searched and went through trash and were unable to recover them. So he had to do a lot of stuff from memory rather than carefully collated notes.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

The Greatest, Most Terrible SF Series.

It's a long, warm and agonizing write up. Your thumb will run out of gas if you read this on your phone.


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