# TiVo vs FiOS Quantum for 6 TVs??



## Beersnob (Apr 22, 2015)

Hello all...hoping some of you can help me decide which road to take for what I NEED to do.

For the past 6+ years I used a Tivo Premier XL connected to an HD antenna on the roof. Internet was Brighthouse cable. The house was small and we only had 1 location to watch quality TV (quality as in big screen and 5.1, etc). The bedroom was just wired to antenna, no DVR.

Sooo, we sold that house and decided to build. The new house is not in a good location for OTA, so therefore I ordered FIOS. I requested 1 cable card for the Premier and 1 non-dvr box to start off as I did not have all the TVs bought yet. I instructed my builder to install coax in 6 locations. (The main living/family room, the bar room, 2 guest rooms, the master and out on the lanai.
A few weeks after move in I wanted to get going on setting up all the locations, but soon realized the cost increase of renting each HD, non-dvr box at something like $10 a box. And I wanted a DVR out on the Lanai as that will be used nearly as often as the main room.
I started to research DirectTV as they provide like 5 or 6 boxes for no more money than 1 box. While I researched it, I got on the phone with Verizon to get a better understanding of my bill and to see if I will be "penalized" for having just Internet should I decide to drop them for Sat. During the call the Verizon sales guy advises me of this Quantum program/package they have that would be $10 more then I was currently paying, but would get a better DVR and up to 6 client boxes to cover all my locations. It allows for pausing in any room, blah blah, so fourth and so fourth. I'm thinking sweet!, it's exactly what I need and I dont have to rent each box. 

Well, 2 days ago a large box came with the new DVR (server box) and 5 client boxes and soon after set a few of them up.

O_M_G! I hate the DVR front end / software / GUI. It's horrible and miss the simplicity of the TiVo screens. I miss the new one pass or whatever they are calling it. I miss the access to Pandora, Netflix, etc etc. I even miss the fact that recorded shows or even shows listed in the guide for that matter do not indicate the Season and Episode (S3 E15).

Everything else about the Fios Quantum package is great, the small client boxes each with a front clock, the ability to pause and rewind on ANY of those client boxes even though they are not DVRs....a lot of great features, but the damn channel guide and recorded shows list is a cluster F.

How do I solve my problem if I go all Tivo? I saw that the Roamio Plus "works" with Fios but is it a card? 
Whats the minimum I have to rent from Fios to get TV in 6 rooms?
I did not get the house wired for Cat5. Is this a problem. Right now the Fios router (50up/50down) is located in main room with Cat5 going to AppleTV, Tivo, Fios Server/DVR, Smarthings Hub, and PS3.

Thanks


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## BruinGuy (Apr 16, 2015)

Your solution with Tivo is easy. You buy a Roamio Plus and 5 Tivo minis. The Roamio has 6 tuners and works exactly as the FIOS whole home DVR works. I'm replacing the FIOS DVR and satellite boxes just like you. 

You'll need to order a "cable card" from Verizon for the Roamio Plus. It costs $4.99 per month. A lot better than the $29 for DVR plus $50 for your HD satellite boxes. 

The Tivo mini boxes have a lifetime subscription. If you buy them and register them by May 5th.


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## Beersnob (Apr 22, 2015)

So after May 5th, If I purchase 4 minis, I have to pay a monthly subscription on each of those too, on top of the sub for the Romio ??


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## BruinGuy (Apr 16, 2015)

Beersnob said:


> So after May 5th, If I purchase 4 minis, I have to pay a monthly subscription on each of those too, on top of the sub for the Romio ??


I can't say, I'm new to Tivo but the forums indicate that it might go back to a monthly or lifetime charge. I don't know what that was but it's less than the Roamio.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BruinGuy said:


> I can't say, I'm new to Tivo but the forums indicate that it might go back to a monthly or lifetime charge. I don't know what that was but it's less than the Roamio.


I set my mom up w/ a Roamio Basic and a Mini a year ago (May 2014), and retail on the Mini was $100 (price-matched Amazon at $80) while Lifetime service was an additional $150 -- so $250 per Mini, absent discounts or promo codes. Current cost is pretty attractive, and even moreso when compared to a year ago -- to the point where I've installed a Pro & 8 Minis at my sister's.

Hard to say where things will stand come May 6th.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

We don't know exactly what will happen in May. The promotion may be extended as it already was earlier in the year. Or it won't.

With a Roamio Plus, you already know what you're getting into with Tivo. They're a good bit faster than the Premieres, and the Minis simply extend it to all the other rooms over the moca network your Verizon router creates over the coax. You can keep using the Premiere too if you wish, but you'll need a Roamio to act as a "host" for the Minis.

The Roamio Plus and Pro also have built-in streaming to iDevices and newer Androids. Both in an out of the home.

My setup is similar. Roamio Plus, Premiere XL4, and 3 Minis with Verizon Fios. We're quite happy.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I have FiOS with a Roamio Pro and a couple of Minis. It works great.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

But more importantly I would love to know more about your beer preferences. What are some of your favorites? Are there some little known gems?

You should probably also take a look at The Great Beer Thread here on TCF.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462184


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## Beersnob (Apr 22, 2015)

thank you for the info....

Does anyone know if these Minis are future proof, at least 4k? An upside of renting the equipment from the cable provider is they offer free equipment swaps as technology changes....

Waynomo...my craft beer favs change every now and then...that's whats great about all these small batch brewers popping up here and there...I've been lucky enough to have some international unattainable "holy grail" beers, that were truly amazing but would not put them on my "awesome list". My noteworthy "attainable" beers, off the top of my head, would be DogFish Head 120 Minute, Weyerbacher's Pumpkin, Cigar City Cubano Espresso, Cigar City Jaii Alai, and pretty much my favorite brewer right now is New Belgium Brewery....


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## BruinGuy (Apr 16, 2015)

Beersnob said:


> thank you for the info....
> 
> Does anyone know if these Minis are future proof, at least 4k? An upside of renting the equipment from the cable provider is they offer free equipment swaps as technology changes....
> 
> Waynomo...my craft beer favs change every now and then...that's whats great about all these small batch brewers popping up here and there...I've been lucky enough to have some international unattainable "holy grail" beers, that were truly amazing but would not put them on my "awesome list". My noteworthy "attainable" beers, off the top of my head, would be DogFish Head 120 Minute, Weyerbacher's Pumpkin, Cigar City Cubano Espresso, Cigar City Jaii Alai, and pretty much my favorite brewer right now is New Belgium Brewery....


Does it really matter? The FIOS HD satellite boxes are $10 per month. If you replace the FIOS box with a Tivo Mini it only takes 15 months before you break even. After that you can throw the Mini away and not have lost any money.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The Minis just go up to 1080i. Tivo doesn't have any 4K units yet.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Beersnob said:


> thank you for the info....
> 
> Does anyone know if these Minis are future proof, at least 4k? An upside of renting the equipment from the cable provider is they offer free equipment swaps as technology changes....


Well, linear TV isn't going to broadcast 4K in the foreseeable future, so I wouldn't expect any upgrades from your cable provider on that front.

4K simply isn't possible over Linear TV under the current broadcast technologies, the only services you will get 4k over at least the next decade is streaming.

Personally, I think Linear TV will collapse under it own weight before you see 4K broadcast TV, but, if you want to wait for it... 

The TV manufacturers sure have sold you guys a bill of goods on 4K haven't they? HA!


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## BruinGuy (Apr 16, 2015)

bradleys said:


> The TV manufacturers sure have sold you guys a bill of goods on 4K haven't they? HA!


I don't think so. I listen to the HTGUYS podcast and they say that upconverted 1080p to 4K is noticeably better in appearance. Not as big as SD to HD, but one that would make the upgrade to a 4k TV worthwhile.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

BruinGuy said:


> I don't think so. I listen to the HTGUYS podcast and they say that upconverted 1080p to 4K is noticeably better in appearance. Not as big as SD to HD, but one that would make the upgrade to a 4k TV worthwhile.


That doesn't surprise me... 4K TV's until recently were pretty high end products with high end components. Just that fact alone is going to make an outstanding presentation when compared to a run-of-the-mill HD TV.

And I will even concede that once they start delivering walmart brand 4K discount TV's, even they will have some appreciable difference.

But from what distance does that difference begin to bring value and at what cost differential?

Will my next TV be a 4K TV? Yes, simply because I tend to buy higher quality systems to begin with - and 4K is what will be available in that bracket.

I am just not fooling myself that any 4K content other than compressed streaming videos from Netflix and Amazon will be available any time soon.


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## BruinGuy (Apr 16, 2015)

bradleys,

The HTguys also talked about a new compression and multiplexing method that allows 4K to be sent over broadcast waves.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

To "broadcast" (as in OTA) 4K (or more accurately UHD, 4K is a slightly different format, and not used in consumer video) will require that broadcasters switch to ATSC 3.0 (the currently used standard in ATSC 1) and double the bandwidth. There are two problems with that:

1) The FCC is trying to cut back on TV bandwidth, not increase it. Assigning 2 frequencies to every TV channel in a major metro area like L.A. or N.Y.C. will be tough, and require some moving around of the current allocations. Not to mention the cost of two transmitters.

2) ATSC 3.0 is NOT backwards compatible. This means that every OTA tuner would become obsolete, just as people have started using OTA reception again, and cutting off every OTA viewer. The solution is to broadcast in both ATSC 1.0 and 3.0, but then you need 3 channels for every TV station (and another transmitter).

Bottom line, I don't see OTA moving to ATSC 3.0 anytime this (or probably next) decade. So, OTA will likely never see UHD.

Cable and satellite COULD support UHD, but cable has severe space limitations. Many systems are already doing SDV because they have run out of space for HD, it is not clear how they will deliver UHD. DirecTV just launched a satellite (with another due to launch in a couple weeks) that have new frequency bands specifically designed to support UHD. Dish doesn't have any firm plans for new satellites in support of UHD, though they do plan to deliver a UHD supporting Joey later this year.

I am very skeptical of commentators that say 1080 content looks noticeably better on a UHD set. The simple fact is that there are only about 2 million pixels in a 1080x1920 video frame and lighting up 4 pixels to display each of them doesn't do anything to improve resolution. All the other features of UHD, like larger color gamut, also depend on the content carrying the codes for those colors. I agree with @bradleys that any improvement seen is the result of better quality components inside the TV and more carefully designed circuitry.

So, without UHD content, there is little advantage to an UHD TV. Even if cable and satellite support UHD, does anyone think they won't compress it just as severely as they compress HD today? Any cable or satellite delivered UHD content will look NOTHING like the demo material they use in the stores. For the foreseeable future, the only REALLY good UHD source will be BluRay (once the UHD BluRay players start shipping).

I won't even get into the discussion of HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 beyond noting that a large number of UHD TVs sold last year (and many of the ones still being sold this year) do not support both of these standards, which may make them unable to display UHD BluRays. So, the only UHD source for those TVs will be whatever you can get streaming with built-in apps.

Now, for ON topic comments: we moved from DirecTV to Verizon FiOS using 2 TiVo Roamio Pros with 5 minis. While that required an initial outlay of ~$2,000, the money we are saving versus our DirecTV bill will get us to break even in 16.5 months (yes, we are saving over $100/month). It is a great system and FAR better and more reliable than the Verizon Quantum system.


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## tallmomof2 (May 3, 2014)

I've had FIOS for years. Had FIOS internet for much longer. Never liked the FIOS boxes. Switched to Tivo almost a year ago. Have 2 Roamios and 3 Minis. Paid lifetime for all and I calculated that in another year I will have paid the same amount for all the Tivo equipment as I would've paid for renting the DVRs and paying for the Quantum service. 

More importantly, my family loves Tivo. The HAF (husband acceptance factor) is sky high. No more switching between multiple inputs for recorded TV and streaming sources. 

Since I was a new customer last year the best deal for me was to purchase one of the eBay codes.

I'm not going to worry about 4K sources until it becomes more common.


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## ucliker (Sep 25, 2007)

I just purchased a code on ebay and it saved me a ton of money. I was skeptical at first, but it 's so worth it in the end. As for the Fios 6 tuner dvr, I turned it down. Tivo is a better experience. I do miss On-Demand but being able to search Amazon Prime and Netflix at the same time is great.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

Diana is correct. Resolution isn't everything. Rec 2020, HDR and other enhancements will be much more noticeable than a sharper picture. 

Last night was the clincher for me. My husband and I went to a friend's new home and they were showing off their new 4K TV. The husband was a little disappointed in the black levels off-axis and other issues. I played with the picture controls and advanced settings for a while and got it a bit better (didn't have my calibration disc with me). But I was woefully unimpressed. Actually, steaming dog turd comes to mind. 

Maybe I'm just spoiled by my TVs, but I'm not giving up my Kuros until OLED panels get the new technologies outlined above. Again, resolution isn't everything!


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