# automatic double button press anoying



## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

Occasionally I get double clicks on tivo menu's after only clicking once. Does everyone suffer this? I'm using an old directv tivo remote because the HD/S3 tivo's remote left out the "now playing list shortcut button," which to me was the most useful button.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I get that when something is in between me and the TiVo. It seems like the IR signal must hit the object and get reflected twice into the TiVo's IR sensor. Remove the objects from the coffee table or whatever and the problem goes away (for me.)

As for a Now Playing button, just press the TiVo button twice. Same thing.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

Its been happening to me lately also. I wrote it down as the remote is going bad. Occasionally, my dogs get a wild hair and decide to play with it and fling it around the room until someone stops them or they tire of it.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Ive found that 'double clicks' mean the batteries need replacing. Try a fresh set of coppertops.


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

I have this problem using my universal remote (an MX-500), but only with Page Down. Doesn't happen all the time,but happens enough to be really annoying, especially when searching through the program guide. I've reprogrammed the button a number of times but the behavior persists. I had never had it happen with the TiVo remote (though I never use it on this TiVo anymore).


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

I also have this very frequent problem with DirecTiVo remotes. I've never seen it with the TiVo HD peanut. The DirecTV boxes are older, and I always assumed that the buttons were wearing out.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

I started getting this problem with the "TiVo HD peanut" recently, particularly with the Info, Guide, and Select buttons. It has been most annoying. However, I will freely admit to having the same batteries in the thing that have been there since... I'm not gonna tell you.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

SCSIRAID said:


> Ive found that 'double clicks' mean the batteries need replacing. Try a fresh set of coppertops.


or better, just recharge the rechargeables/temporarily replace with the 2nd set of rechargeables...

I don't really get 'double clicks', but I do get the wrong key happening.. e.g. I try to go up, it goes right instead.

Though even with fresh/recharged batteries, I have the back off two of my Tivo remotes since the remotes seem to have semi-flaky connections. (I see this in other remotes, just not as often.. though I use the Tivo remotes by far the most.)


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

I noticed this problem just last night, as well. My GF noticed it before - basically, it seems the TivoHD isn't responding "as quickly" to the button presses. I have to be far more deliberate in each press. It seemed to be worse when one tuner was recording... when that one stopped, it seems a little bit more responsive, but not a lot more. I rebooted the TivoHD this morning, and will see if it persists tonight... (there were too many things recording last night to do a reboot!)

The batteries are new from the TivoHD, but I'll check them tonight (have a battery tester). The remote is working fine (when switched to run the S1, it works perfectly fine... the S1 interface seems far more responsive than the TivoHD).

FWIW, the TivoHD didn't seem this un-responsive previously...


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> Ive found that 'double clicks' mean the batteries need replacing. Try a fresh set of coppertops.


Probably true but it can happen with fresh batteries on my system which is only 7 mos. old. I also had some double-keying on my previous Series 2 remote. It also can depend on your fingering technique, i.e., if you press rather lightly and your finger wavers a little, it is more likely to happen.


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## BigJim (Jun 18, 2002)

Years ago there were lots of people (including me) who swore that a TiVo software update caused a bunch of S2 remotes to exhibit this behavior. I ended up switching to Harmony because of it (and that old S2 remote still does it when I try to use it now). You may be able to find it if you search.

In the end, I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the remote. People (including me) always have a tendency to blame the software updates. I wouldn't rule out your problem as a bad peanut!


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

I'm on my third S3 (first two failed), and I have the problem frequently. It didn't happen with the previous two, so I know it's not me or the remote (using the same one). It seems for whatever reason, some boxes are more prone to this than others.

It happens more often when the batteries are low, but still happens occasionally when they're new. I've wondered if the IR sensor is either less sensitive or off-center, since it seems like the weaker the signal, the more likely it is to double-press.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

I replaced batteries, as well, and the remote is still doing it... these batteries were new, and tested well with a battery meter. Ugh, so annoying. It will double-click, pause, and do all kinds of weird things... it seems to be worse when it's recording something on either (or both) tuners.

I have my old S1 Tivo remote, but that one doesn't support 2 DVRs... (no switch)... any way I can use that one as a dedicated TivoHD remote (ie, set it to 1/2 manually) to continue testing?


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Well, I tried swapping batteries, using my old S1 remote, etc... nothing seems to improve the responses of the TivoHD. It's gotten to the point where if I press play and release, wait for a second, press and release, wait for a second, etc... about 1/3-1/2 the time, the TivoHD doesn't respond with its yellow LED. If I do the same with the S1 (in the same room) the S1 responds EVERY time. What's more, if I press and hold, then release and wait a second, etc... when the TivoHD doesn't respond, even holding it won't let it respond at all. (Holding play otherwise can cause the yellow-LED to remain lit). Of course, during all this, the LED on the remote is working properly as well.

So, I did all I could, and finally called Tivo support and they went through a bunch of other suggestions (put other remotes in a cabinet, in case they are still transmitting; turn off Plasma TV in case it's interfering; flash a flashlight into the TivoHD receiver port; set the remote to "0" remote-ID)... none of these improved the situation. They are now replacing the TivoHD... 

Hopefully this resolves the issue... sounds like this is what others have done to "fix" this problem...?

If someone doesn't mind, can you repeat my press-release test process - I'm curious to see if this might be an overall-issue with the TivoHD and my process or something?

Of course, if anyone else has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Got my replacement TivoHD. It was running 9.4 software last night, and "felt" more responsive. I was trying to get video into the device so I could test it out more thoroughly. Unfortunately, I believe Tivo Support when they said it would not auto-update the software overnight, so I set it to record some things last night so I could see if 9.4 was better as well. Needless to say, it updated overnight, and now it's on 11.0d... so I won't be able to prove if 9.4-to-11.0 causes this issue.

I'll try playing more with the new unit today, but it doesn't seem any better than the "bad" one... we'll see... maybe I'm just being too picky. This would be the second thing I have to "overlook" with regard to the new TivoHDs... they're just not very well made, as far as I can see... slow remote, poor analog encoders, slow CPU... very disappointing.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, support was thinking that my "hot" signal strength might somehow cause the remote to be unresponsive. Sounds fishy to me... I mean, how can a strong cable signal cause IR receiving to "go bad"? Doesn't make sense to me, but I was happy to try anything new... needless to say, dropping the signal strength didn't fix the responsiveness of the remote...

Again, maybe I'm just being too picky with my expectations. But, I can tell you it's very annoying to try to fast forward/rewind and stop at the right place when it gets unresponsive... I've had situations where I had to repeat this back and forth 5 times before I got to the screen I wanted to see (only on for about a second). And, yes, I know frame forwarding/rewinding is another way, but I couldn't even get close enough to do that...


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

schwinn said:


> I'll try playing more with the new unit today, but it doesn't seem any better than the "bad" one... we'll see... maybe I'm just being too picky. This would be the second thing I have to "overlook" with regard to the new TivoHDs... they're just not very well made, as far as I can see... slow remote, poor analog encoders, slow CPU... very disappointing.


The TiVo HD design is very expensive; per past financial filings, TivoHD hardware itself cost $300-$400 to build and distribute. That's more than many $1200 A/V receivers. Quality control is very good, so you'll find that 95-98% of units perform _identically_; that's why it is generally _pointless_ to swap multiple units.

You implies that TiVo selected an inferior CPU, or that better alternatives were available, which is not the case. The TivoHD used the fastest, single-chip DVR solution with MPEG-4 available when it was released in July, 2007. A faster DVR CPU was announced at the time, but it was not actually available in volume until 12-18 months after the TivoHD shipped (2H 2008). I think most would agree that it is about time for a new TiVo based on one of those newer, faster CPUs.

The analog encoders in the TivoHD are cheaper than those in the TiVo Series2 and TiVo Series3, but that doesn't mean they are cheap. Analog support still adds significant cost to the box. The TivoHD obviously incorporates many more components to support dual-tuners, digital OTA, digital cable, CableCards, etc. TiVo probably figured that most customers would use those sources, and would rather not spend an extra $30-$50 for a design with better analog encoders.



schwinn said:


> remote





schwinn said:


> EDIT: Forgot to mention, support was thinking that my "hot" signal strength might somehow cause the remote to be unresponsive. Sounds fishy to me... I mean, how can a strong cable signal cause IR receiving to "go bad"? Doesn't make sense to me, but I was happy to try anything new... needless to say, dropping the signal strength didn't fix the responsiveness of the remote...


Remote response tends to be much more noticeable on DVRs than other products, given the frequency that FF, REW, and 30sec skip are used. TiVo has just about the fastest remote response of any cable/satellite DVR on the market, but as with all IR devices, it's subject to IR interference from a variety of potential sources. There are also several TiVo-specific issues that can affect remote response.

Issues affecting remote response


 As per FAQ, responsiveness is always subpar for the first ~48 hours after initial setup as the guide data is indexed in the background. The guide data must be reindexed after certain updates are installed (like 11.0), which temporarily slows responsiveness for another ~48 hours. Note the same issue applied to past TiVos.

Some types of fluorescent lighting interfere with remote IR signals. This is not TiVo specific.

 Reflective surfaces (such as glass shelves) in some cabinets can cause IR signals to hit the IR sensor from multiple directions, producing poor remote response and/or double commands. This is not TiVo specific.

 As per the FAQ, the "day/night sensors" and "light sensors" on many of the latest LCD and plasma TVs function by emitting IR, and that interferes with remote response on dozens of devices, not just TiVos.

 The backlighting on a some TVs, most noticeably Samsung LCDs like the LNxxA850 and LNxxA750, is known to cause IR interference with devices from other manufacturers. On some models, adjusting the brightness/contrast to certain levels will eliminate the problem. Samsung issued firmware updates for some of their TVs to minimize the problem, but for a complete fix, a Samsung service call is required to replace a part on the TV (yes, it's a known issue and they physically replace circuitry inside the TV under warranty).

 A defective or failing hard drive will produce poor remote response. That's unlikely in a new unit, but perhaps 2 in 100 TiVos might include a drive that is defective or damaged in shipping.

 A poor cable or OTA signal (be it too "hot" or too "weak"), indicated by millions of RS Uncorrected errors on the System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen, can also cause poor remote response. When there are millions of RS Uncorrected errors, the TiVo CPU spends many of its cycles trying to fix those errors, which slows responsiveness. If you don't see millions of RS Uncorrected errors on a channel with poor remote response, then that's not your problem.

 Some universal remotes are unable to perfectly replicate the TiVo remote's IR output, which may result in double commands. Harmony remotes are a perfect example of that. The stickied FAQ contains recommended Harmony settings to improve remote response on the TiVo, but it will never be as good as the TiVo remote.



schwinn said:


> But, I can tell you it's very annoying to try to fast forward/rewind and stop at the right place when it gets unresponsive... I've had situations where I had to repeat this back and forth 5 times before I got to the screen I wanted to see (only on for about a second). And, yes, I know frame forwarding/rewinding is another way, but I couldn't even get close enough to do that...


I assume you realize that TiVo has automatic "overshoot correction" on FF and REW, so it's not supposed to resume playback from where you press PLAY (or FF/REW a fourth time). It is _supposed_ to jump back with FF, or jump forward with REW. The "overshoot correction" is the way TiVo accounts for delays in human response.

This autocorrection allows you to FF at 60x through commercials, hit FF a fourth time to resume playback when you see the program itself, and -- assuming average human response -- catch the last second or two of the commercials before the program starts. Many have requested a setting to adjust the sensitivity of this feature (for those with gamer-type reflexes), but thus far, TiVo has not obliged.

This autocorrection is only supposed to be present at 20x and 60x FF, but a software/driver bug can cause similar behavior at 3x speed on channels encoded by broadcasters/providers in a certain way.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

My complaint for the Tivo CPU is simply that it doesn't seem fast enough... my S1 "feels" faster. Sure, the HD is doing more, but you can really see the speed difference between the two units. Maybe the HD just needs more RAM... who knows. It's not that big of a deal.

As for the analog encoder, I understand why they didn't want to spend more to fix that, but it's quite annoying. Fortunately, channels are moving to digital, so this should go away... but, again, for a "premium experience" with a TivoHD, and even compared to the S1s, this is pretty disappointing.

The bigger problem is the remote. Again, the S1 works flawlessly (and has done so for almost 10 years now). The HD is just piss-poor at it. Both units are now in the same room, near the same TV... the HD simply has issues with response all the time.

I spent a good deal of time with Tivo Tech Support on the matter, as well as a good deal of my own tinkering and troubleshooting. I tried many potential solutions, but nothing helped the HD work better... the S1 always works fine. I tried turning the TV off (Plasma), removing other remotes from the room (Tech support suggestion) etc.

Glass shelves - there are some in the side-cabinets to the entertainment center, but these are only the horizontal shelves - the cabinets are all wood/opaque/non-reflective. 

My particular model of TV doesn't have a room-light sensor (I don't believe) and it has no back-lighting. It's a Panasonic TH42PZ80U. Again, the S1 and other units have had no issues with this TV.

Defective HD: An interesting thought, but this is the 3rd TivoHD I have had here, and it's showing the same relatively poor remote responsiveness. The picture is fine, so I doubt I'm seeing 3 bad HDs on 3 new units.

hot/cold signal strength - makes more sense to me now, thanks. I am currently running with a low-signal (removed the amp) to see if there is any improvement. I will look at the RS errors more carefully tonight... see if there are any clues there. My hot signal had a signal strength/SNR of 100/37db... the "cold" signal (15db amp removed) is around 50/31db...

I am VERY familiar with overshoot correction. This is why I prefaced my experience with the S1. This isn't a problem with overshoot - the problem is when I press the remote key to return to play (while FF or RW) the TivoHD is not responding... so then I have to press it again, and again, until it responds... and by then it's WAY too late to get to where I want to be. I don't have any problem with auto-correction, and I know how it works... the issue is that the remote is not responding.

I appreciate the info you have provided. I will look into the RS corrected values to see what's up there. That certainly makes more sense to me now. If you have any other suggestions, I welcome them... but I think this is "just the way it works" on these TivoHDs... and that's just very disappointing, that's all.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I also have this very frequent problem with DirecTiVo remotes. I've never seen it with the TiVo HD peanut. The DirecTV boxes are older, and I always assumed that the buttons were wearing out.


its funny... I've had double-click problems with my Tivo peanut for as long as I've had this S2 (specifically the Info button)... I had a spare DirecTivo Peanut laying around, and haven't had one double-click since I started using it.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Incidentally, I have used 3 different Tivo peanuts on this setup, and they all do the same thing. The three include two S1-series peanuts, and the included TivoHD peanut.

I also tried programming my learning remote with any of these, to see if the problem would go away... it doesn't.

DirecTivo Peanut - do you have "missed" remote signals with that device?

Were you just getting double-clicks with the original remote, or also missed-presses? I seem to get more missed-presses than double-presses, but I figured double-presses were simply from people who missed the first one, then pressed again, and ended up getting two when the Tivo "caught up" to the first press. I get this behavior sometimes... hence my issue with the lack of responsiveness from the Tivo.

Lastly, bkdtv: I checked the RS values last night. First was channel 18, which was showing as QAM 256, signal strength 48, 28db... it was a 480i picture. RS Uncorrected remained at 0, but RS Corrected was constantly incrementing. I'd say it was showing about 4 "corrections" per second (in other words, with about 1000-seconds of tuned-time, I was seeing about 4000 RS Corrected... and both continued to increment).

Second tuner was on an HD channel. I don't remember if it was 720 or 1080. It was QAM 256, SS 50, 29db. RS Uncorrected was at 0, but RS Corrected was showing about 100 per second... in other words, for 40-seconds of tuned-time, I saw about 4000 RS Corrected.

Your post implied that this is not normal. Can you (and/or anyone else) tell me what you see, typically, for SS, db, and RS Uncorrected/Corrected?

If this might be the problem, I will get a smaller amplifier (current 15db model was over-boosting to SS100/37db)... or some attenuators... but I want to know if this is "solvable" in this manner or not, before I go off tinkering with signals again.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Lately mine has been doing this, too.....odd that so many people have this problem simultaneously.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Always happens with my Harmony remotes. Never with the peanut or glo.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

parzec (and bkdtv): Care to tell us what your signal strength and SNR are for digital channels? While you're at it, the RS Corrected/Uncorrected would be nice to know (along with the "Tuned time" so we know how fast it's incrementing.

FWIW, I bought some inline attenuators to see if I can get to the "ideal" signal level with my amplifier plugged in... 4-15 days to arrive.

Raj: FYI, just to reiterate, this is happening with all 3 of my peanut remotes (two S1s, and 1 TivoHD)... and this missing-commands doesn't happen with these same remotes when controlling my S1.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Issues affecting remote response


For me, none of these were applicable. I got a replacement Tivo so the only variable was the box itself. The remote, cables, input signal, location, lighting, TV, etc. were all the same. So for some reason, this box gives me double presses when the previous one didn't. I suspect it has something to do with weak or misaligned IR receivers, but that's just a guess.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

schwinn said:


> parzec (and bkdtv): Care to tell us what your signal strength and SNR are for digital channels? While you're at it, the RS Corrected/Uncorrected would be nice to know (along with the "Tuned time" so we know how fast it's incrementing.


You are going to have intermittent problems if your signal is below 60-70. You should reinstall an amplifier if that is necessary to get your signal above 80.

The signal on every one of my channels is 92-100 with 0 Corrected and Uncorrected errors. That said, remote response should not be affected by anything short of millions of errors. It takes millions and millions of RS Uncorrected errors per minute to overwhelm the TiVo's CPU/decoder.



schwinn said:


> Raj: FYI, just to reiterate, this is happening with all 3 of my peanut remotes (two S1s, and 1 TivoHD)... and this missing-commands doesn't happen with these same remotes when controlling my S1.


Remote response should be just as good on the TivoHD as it is on your Series2. It is for me.

It could be your glass shelves. Just because your Series2 worked fine doesn't mean that your glass shelves aren't the issue. The IR receiver in the TivoHD isn't necessarily positioned in exactly the same way as the IR receiver in the Series2, so it could be more sensitive to off-axis (i.e. reflected) IR signals. I know some people with glass shelves have been able to improve remote response by moving the TiVo forward so it is level with the edge of the shelf or a slight overhang.

If that doesn't work, but you see improved remote response from a few inches away, then I would suggest a Next Generation Remote Control Extender ($33 @ Amazon, when in stock). That will add UHF capability to the TiVo remote. With this product, you place the included IR receiver "eye" over the IR sensor on the front of the TiVo and cover it with black electrical tape to prevent interference from reflected IR signals.

The TiVo's IR sensor is located to the right of the record lights and just to the left of the "Fixed" text; if you have trouble locating it, shine a flash light on the front of the TiVo and look for the round circle just to the left of the "Fixed" text.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

So, you're saying my RS corrected/uncorrected isn't too bad... I will reconnect my amplifier, get the signal back up to 100, and 37db, and report the RS values then. I think they were similar... either way, I have attenuators on the way...

My glass shelves are on the left and right of the TV, in separate cabinets. They are not anywhere near the TivoHD nor the S1 (which is sitting on a large speaker to the right of the entertainment center.

Picture a setup like this: http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BWGM38BPL._home-office-furniture_.jpg where the only glass shelves are on the right and left "towers", and both towers are "recessed" from the center section, as seen in that picture. TivoHD is below the TV in the center-left slot (in a pocket RIGHT under the TV, as is the situation on my entertainment center - not the TV isn't sitting on the Tivo) and the S1 is on a speaker to the left of the left-side tower. Again, these towers have 3 horizontal glass shelves... the rest is all wood and opaque.

The only other glass in the room are the big windows, just to the left of the left-speaker. The S1 used to be where the TivoHD was, and never had this problem there either. There is also now a warranty-replacement TivoHD sitting on top of the S1 (on the left speaker) and it, too seems to have these issues. So, I am very skeptical of "placement" and "glass" issues in my setup. Just to remind you, I also tested with the TV off (Plasma) and the problem persists.

I don't see improved response from close up. I sit right in front of the TV and center-installed TivoHD, so the remote is usually pointed there. The S1 and replacement-TivoHD are off the the left, of course. Even off-axis like that, the S1 doesn't have any issues.

I know where the IR receiver is on the TivoHD... I am pretty much right in front of it and pointing the remote towards it.

I'm running out of ideas. I may try taking a video of the problem, to show (more clearly) what it is. In words, again, if press the play button, then release for 1 second, then press play again... many times (1/2 to 1/3 of the time) the second press is completely missedby the TivoHDs. That's not to say the missed signals ONLY happen on subsequent presses... they can happen on the first press as well. It's just VERY repeatable when I do it this way. The S1, of course, sees ALL the presses, with zero issues... even when the remote is pointed at the TV (not at the S1 about 4 feet to the left, as I described).

Again, I appreciate the help... I just can't figure out why this could be happening. As far as I can see, everything seems to be pointing to a hardware/software problem in the TivoHDs...


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Amplifier plugged back in. RS values are much better - digital channel is showing 300-ish RS corrected and uncorrected, over 11,000+ seconds. The other channel is similarly much better. So, the amplifier is a good thing, even though the signal strength is 100, and the SNR is about 36-37db.

So, that means Tivo support was blowing smoke about the signal strength... nice.

Needless to say, the remote is still doing the same thing - misses commands... looks like my attenuators aren't going to help me with this issue. Thanks for nothing, Tivo support.

Anyone have any ideas or other things I can try?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

schwinn said:


> Anyone have any ideas or other things I can try?


Eliminate *everything* in the room (and in any adjacent rooms) that has power going to it (except, obviously, for the TiVo). E.g. do you have CF bulbs? The flickering may be causing interference. Draw your blinds. Add blackout curtains if you have to!

Is there another source of IR? E.g. do you have one of those RF to IR remotes for something else? Power it down. Power *everything* down.

Plug your TiVo directly into a wall outlet; no UPS; no surge protector.

You should be in a dark cave, just you, your remote control, and your TiVo. Your TV should be off (from your description you should be able to recognize the problem by watching the front of your TiVo).

It might not solve your problem, but you seem desperate, so it's worth a shot.

BTW when you got your replacement TiVo's, did you also get replacement remotes?


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## comgenius1 (Feb 16, 2004)

schwinn said:


> =
> 
> My glass shelves are on the left and right of the TV, in separate cabinets. They are not anywhere near the TivoHD nor the S1 (which is sitting on a large speaker to the right of the entertainment center.


Is that "large speaker" magnetically shielded? If not, it can wreak havoc on the hard drives in your tivos. Also, the vibrations from the speaker could cause the hard drive heads to move unintentionally, and your tivo is having to wait for the drive to recover and re-read those bits of information.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Phantom: You mean illumination, or any device period?

Illumination-wise, I have already turned everything in the room (and adjacent rooms) off (lights, receiver, TV, etc... during the daytime, of course) except for the other TivoHD and S1. I have also removed all shiny things from the coffee table between me and the TV, as well as all remotes, etc. Even the laptop on that table has been turned off and closed. All of this was done with Tivosupport. Still, BOTH TivoHDs continue to exhibit this problem, while the S1 does not.

Last night, again, it was more prevalent (and annoying) when both tuners were recording. It seems less prevalent when it's not recording.

I have no other source of IR - no repeaters, TV was off, no other remotes visible in the room (all hidden in cabinets for the testing requested). And, I'm using the original TivoHD remotes only, one at a time (my S1 remote, or the TivoHD remote)... both remotes show the problem only on the TivoHDs.

No UPS/surge protector? Now you're losing me... how does my power have anything to do with this, if the S1 is not showing the issue? (I will note I have a computer on - my MythTV box - behind the large speaker on the left as well.) Again, remember, the S1 doesn't show a problem...

I will try all this again tonight, with the drapes closed (light-blocking)... but I know it still happens then, too. Yes, I do have a single CFL in a torchier light in that room. Again, NOTHING I DO has improved BOTH the TivoHDs... and the S1 ALWAYS works fine, under ANY conditions (ie, lights on, laptop on, drink glasses on the coffee table, receiver on, other remotes in the room, other lights in neighboring rooms on, daytime/nighttime, shades open or closed, etc.) BTW, the S1 is plugged into the same place as the TivoHD that's sitting on top of it.

Again, I'll give it a try (hopefully tonight, though I have some other work to do) and maybe I can video it (IR is visible in the dark on most cameras)... but I'm not holding much hope. I've pretty much done all this already... but will do it again for clarity's sake.

comgenius1: Thanks for the tip, but I am aware of the theory behind such issues. As I mentioned above, the MythTV box sits right behind the woofer in this case, and has been fine for years, which is why the Tivos on top have no issues to worry about. I have never seen an HD get affected by a speaker's magnet, and I have seen far-closer setups than mine, with even stronger/bigger speaker magnets. It's a wives-tale, as far as I can see (I have a computer business on the side, so I'm pretty exposed to such things).

As for the speaker moving the HD heads... I don't believe your anecdote. It's a nice theory, but I think it's just FUD. Do you have any evidence of this happening? (Note that the TivoHDs have this problem without the sound even being on in the room - receiver is off... besides which, it's not loud enough to shake anything... and the S1/mythboxes don't have an issue either.) I don't think this is a drive/read problem... but I really do appreciate the theory!


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I am just seeing this thread for the first time.

Pressing the button once and having Tivo respond as if pressed twice happens at least a few times a week while watching problem 15 plus hours. I just assumed the I didn't hit the button solidly enough so that the contacts on the remote quickly engaged twice or something like that. So while the finger motion was just one motion, what happened in the remote was two contacts being made. (This is all just theory.) 

Does this happen to people with the GLO remote also. I have the standard peanut that came with the Tivo HD.

We also have a big TV in a large family room and we sit a bit far back from the Tivo. Could this be related to distance?

Schwinn, did they send you a new remote with the new Tivo? I would also assume the you had the problem and you were only a foot or two away from the Tivo and not sitting back in your regular watching location. I don't suppose you have a friend with a Tivo and you could go to there house and try it there and see what happens and maybe bring their Tivo remote to yours.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

I imagine the double-press slightly differently: I have often pressed the button, seen that nothing happened, so I press it again, and then I ended up getting two presses. I realize this is not really the same thing... but it caused me numerous double-presses. Sometimes, I get double-presses on a single button-press-stroke, but it's not as annoying as the "totally ignored" presses I have been dealing with.

I'm using the standard peanut that came with the S1 and the HD. I did get a replacement HD peanut in the previous replacement - it made no difference. The current-replacement Tivo came in a plain-box, without a remote, so I'm using the original HD remote (or the S1 remote)...

I am rarely "2 feet" from the tivo - I'm typically about 6-8 feet away... not a huge distance, but not short either. I don't have any friends with TivoHDs... but my friends with S1 or S2 tivos have no issues (with their remotes). Remember, my S1 doesn't have a problem either (same room, same remotes). I had a third S1 remote that also didn't have a problem with the S1, but does with the HD.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

schwinn said:


> Phantom: You mean illumination, or any device period?


You were (perhaps still are) desperate. So I wanted you to eliminate *everything* else. I meant it when I said this is all that should be active:


you

your remote

your TiVo
Do you have a TV on? Turn it off. TiVo going through an A/V receiver? Turn it off. Eliminate *everything* even if you don't think it's a problem!!!



> No UPS/surge protector? Now you're losing me... how does my power have anything to do with this, if the S1 is not showing the issue? (I will note I have a computer on - my MythTV box - behind the large speaker on the left as well.)


I'm about 99.9% certain that the UPS doesn't have anything to do with your problem, but ... This is *exactly* what I mean. You've got 1000 different things active. You need to get down to the absolute bare minimum! What harm would it do you to shut off your UPS and your MythTV box for a few minutes? Do you want to isolate your problem or not?



> Yes, I do have a single CFL in a torchier light in that room.


Once again, *exactly* what I mean. Turn it off. How does a fluorescent work? Most of them pass high frequency AC through a plasma, which excites a phosphor. The phosphor flickers in intensity at a very high frequency. Maybe this is confusing your IR receiver. People have reported problems with fluorescent lights and IR receivers. E.g. first Google hit for _fluorescent ir problem_ turns up an IEEE article with this title: *Prevention of IR interference from high frequency fluorescent lighting to IR remote-control systems.*

The point I'm trying to make is that SOP for problem solving is to try to get to an absolute minimum setup.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Phantom: I hear you... I guess I'm just a little more pragmatic in my testing. In other words, if the other Tivo doesn't have this problem, and multiple remotes don't, then doesn't this mean the box does?

I am desperate for a solution, and will try anything. As I mentioned, I will do this anyway, but I don't think it will do anything to solve the problem. I was simply looking for an explanation of why it might, in your eyes, help. I see now that it's just a shotgun approach, which is fine, I suppose.

I know very well how fluorescent bulbs work. Again, these should not be a problem, and as I stated, I have tested with that turned off as well... but I will do it all AT ONCE to prove it's not anything in my room.

Normally, your SOP is correct... but when you have another device (multiple devices for that matter) that all work properly, and only ONE type of device (both HD boxes) then the answer should be clear... yet, everyone (including Tivo support) wants to blame everything else (hot signal, lights, glass, TV, etc)... even when these are eliminated independently.

Let me repeat that: ALL of these items have INDEPENDENTLY been turned off/removed/disabled, to test their potential "interference" with the IR. NONE have improved the situation with the HD boxes, and NONE affect any other IR device in the room, including the S1.

Still, as requested, I will do them all at once, just to prove the point.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

schwinn said:


> Still, as requested, I will do them all at once, just to prove the point.


If that doesn't solve your problem, I think you will be running very low on options. Possibly you received several boxes with a similar manufacturing defect, such as a defective IR receiver. But I can't see how you can diagnose or fix such a problem yourself.

I suppose TiVo can send one of their design engineers to your house, and maybe he'd be able to troubleshoot the problem. But what are the chances of that happening? 

One other thing to try, maybe you've done this, I'm too lazy to go back and read the entire thread. I believe that the remote controls are very similar between models, with just a few minor differences. Try using your S2 remote to control the TiVo HD. Does it work better? Now try the TiVo HD remote with the S2. Does that work better? Of course it will be a bit inconvenient to do that because you may need to unplug the other box and/or switch remote codes.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Yes, I tried my other remotes for the TivoHD (S1 remotes... two of them)... they have the issue as well.

I tried the "everything" test last night, and it might be helping a little... not really sure. It's hard to get the system to behave badly "all the time"... it's almost intermittent. For example, while I was watching last night (normal/everything-on mode) it was not misbehaving... then when tuner1 started recording something, it started to hiccup and miss signals... sometimes. It seems to be worse when tuners are recording?

Anyway, I tried to replicate the problem, but it's not very clear...

Still, I tried the everything-solution and it may be better? I can't tell for sure. I guess last night was just a "more behaving" night in general. When I turned things back on, it behaved pretty much the same as with everything off. Again, maybe the placebo effect makes me feel like it was a little better with everything off, I don't know...

Anyway, the one thing you mentioned above was the issue with CFLs. I did some reading about IR/CFL interference... I might have to try a solution that way, and replace the lights in that area with regular bulbs for a while, and see if that helps. Tivo Support did not mention this problem to me... they mentioned the TV issue, but not this one.

Any idea why the S1 (or any other IR device) doesn't have any of these problems?

(I have more experimenting to do...)


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

schwinn said:


> Any idea why the S1 (or any other IR device) doesn't have any of these problems?


I think I mentioned this before, but the IR receiver in the TivoHD isn't necessarily positioned in the same way as that in an older TiVo model. As a result, interference coming from a certain direction (ex: lighting in one part of the room) might affect the TivoHD, but not the Series2.

The greater the field from which the box can accept IR signals, the greater its susceptibility to potential sources of interference.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Any ideas on what I can do, then, to reduce this FOV (field of vision)... or maybe reduce the sensitivity? Maybe "sunglasses" for the IR port? Maybe just a piece of electrical-tape with a smaller-hole on it (to reduce the FOV)?


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

More annoyances this weekend. For a while there, I was thinking that maybe the CFLs were the cause of the problem. Then, this weekend, while the lights were off, the Tivo starts acting up again. Sure enough, it was recording something on both tuners at the time.

This REALLY feels like a software issue... where the IR receiver is simply not getting as much CPU time to do its thing.

I did receive my attenuators this weekend, so that will be the next test... I doubt they'll help, but I'm willing to try anything.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

schwinn said:


> More annoyances this weekend. For a while there, I was thinking that maybe the CFLs were the cause of the problem. Then, this weekend, while the lights were off, the Tivo starts acting up again. Sure enough, it was recording something on both tuners at the time.
> 
> This REALLY feels like a software issue... where the IR receiver is simply not getting as much CPU time to do its thing.


I'm not sure that recording two shows can be any kind of explanation: the TiVo is always recording two shows, whether it be live-TV or requested shows.

I've forgotten, have you been in much contact with TiVo about this? One possibility is that you have a piece of hardware malfunctioning (disk or ethernet most likely), and the TiVo is getting confused while it writes error logs. You might have TiVo check into whether large error logs are being written; that's something they can track.

How can it be a pure software issue when hundreds of thousands of people are running the same software as you? The root cause has to be either your environment (input to the TiVo) or hardware.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Good point, and agreed, but that's just what I seem to see happening... I realize the two tuners are always recording, but this problem seems to get worse when they are actually-recording (not just live-view recording). Not really sure why that is.

I have contacted Tivo, and the last thing they suggested is to try some attenuators. They feel that the hot-signal might be "screaming" into the Tivo, making it harder for the Tivo to "concentrate"... yeah, that really was his explanation. I don't buy that analogy, since the tuner circuit is independent of the CPU, and from troubleshooting above, I see that my RS Corrected/Uncorrected (which takes up CPU) are both very low. Still, I have attenuators now, and will bring the signal down to "34db SNR" as they requested...

This is the second of 3 TivoHD units I have used... all 3 have this problem. The first was a new purchase, the second (currently running with Cable Cards) is having this problem, and the third (advance-replacement unit) is also showing the same issues, in general. The two S1s I had did not exhibit any issues like this (one of these S1s is still running just fine in the same room). All 3 units should be new (I know 2 were, since they shipped in new-retail boxes... the 3rd unit shipped in a plain-box).

I agree, it shouldn't be a software issue if it's "only me"... but it's the only thing that seems to make any sense. For a while I thought it might have been the TV, or the window, or the CFL bulbs... but it still does this when the TV is off, the CFLs are off, and the window drapes are closed. Most importantly, I say this all the time here, the S1s and all other IR equipment works perfectly fine... at all times.

It just doesn't make sense...


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

schwinn said:


> Any ideas on what I can do, then, to reduce this FOV (field of vision)... or maybe reduce the sensitivity? Maybe "sunglasses" for the IR port? Maybe just a piece of electrical-tape with a smaller-hole on it (to reduce the FOV)?


This could be a way to reduce the FOV.

http://www.weaknees.com/rf-remote-details.php

You shouldn't have to spend the $$ to do this, but it could be a possible solution.

It sends the signal from your Tivo Remote as RF and uses it's own IR emitter/blaster to talk to Tivo. You could put the "blinders" around the IR emitter near the Tivo so that this is the only IR signal the Tivo picks up.

$15 restocking fee if it doesn't help with the problem.

I have not used this product so this is not an endorsement. I just thought it might be a possible solution. I assume it works as advertised.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Yeah, I figured and IR repeater or RF-repeater type device might get it working for me. I wish I had one I could try before buying, but maybe getting a unit from a retail store will let me test it out before committing.

Didn't get to use the RF attenuators this weekend (lost power on Thusday night due to the storm in New England, so I was recovering from that). But, again, with the CFL lights off, during the daytime, the HD still just refuses to work reliably. Maybe it's the Plasma TV, after all... in which case putting the TivoHD behind a light-closed cabinet might help, or using an IR repeater that blocks everything else (like the proposed device) could work...

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

schwinn said:


> Yeah, I figured and IR repeater or RF-repeater type device might get it working for me. I wish I had one I could try before buying, but maybe getting a unit from a retail store will let me test it out before committing.
> 
> Didn't get to use the RF attenuators this weekend (lost power on Thusday night due to the storm in New England, so I was recovering from that). But, again, with the CFL lights off, during the daytime, the HD still just refuses to work reliably. Maybe it's the Plasma TV, after all... in which case putting the TivoHD behind a light-closed cabinet might help, or using an IR repeater that blocks everything else (like the proposed device) could work...
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion!


Let us know if you do it and the results.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

In fact, I installed the attenuators yesterday. Finally! Too many other things were holding up this activity: Turns out the amplifier was putting a too-hot signal to my tuner card in the MythTV system, causing it to have massive tuning problems. After plugging in a 3db attenuator, both the MythTV system (now showing 83&#37; signal strength) and the TivoHD (89-93% signal, 35db SNR) are "where they should be". The MythTV system is now tuning properly.

Still, in my limited usage last night, it didn't feel any more responsive to the remote. Again, for whatever weird reason, it always seems less responsive when it's recording on both tuners. I know this doesn't make sense, but it's what's happening. I typically notice that it's being unresponsive, then as I look for the yellow LED to see if it's getting anything, I notice the two red record LEDs are lit. That's not to say it doesn't happen when it's not recording... just seems more sensitive when it is.

I'm still going to leave the attenuator on, since it fixes the MythTV and so I can continue testing the Tivo's responsiveness over a longer period of time.

I will also note that this used to happen with the previous TivoHD as well. I still have my advance-replacement unit with me, and it does the same thing... though I have removed it from the setup since it wasn't providing any new information (and wasn't really recording anything, since I only have 1 subscription right now).

I'm thinking of trying the IR/RF repeater device... and/or some IR "sunglasses" to dim the input-light for the receiver on the Tivo... not sure what I can use there. Anyone have any ideas for a suitable "tinted material" for IR?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

schwinn said:


> After plugging in a 3db attenuator, both the MythTV system (now showing 83% signal strength) and the TivoHD (89-93% signal, 35db SNR) are "where they should be". The MythTV system is now tuning properly.


Did you only get one attenuator? Can you temporarily add more attenuation to the TiVo? When people had FiOS problems they were adding 12 dB or more of attenuation.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

I have a 6db and 10db attenuator as well, if needed. Signal strengths are where Tivo Support told me to be, which is why I stayed with the 3db one. (Tivo Support said I need to get SNR to around 34... I'm at 35. Signal strength is now around 89-100, so it's not "pegged" at the top end.)

How low do you think I should be going?

And why does anyone think this will affect my IR response (RS Corrected/Uncorrected were fine without the 3db attenuator... I imagine they are good now, as well. They were somewhat bad (as reported above) without the amplifier...) What else is the Tivo doing with the signal, other than RS Corrections? (What does RS stand for anyway?)


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

schwinn said:


> How low do you think I should be going?


You should scan back in the old FiOS problems thread. I don't have FiOS so I don't recall the details. But some people wound up using 12 dB or more.



> And why does anyone think this will affect my IR response


Isn't this question better asked of TiVo themselves? They were the ones telling you to do that. I myself don't see much correlation, so either TiVo knows something I don't (possible), or the TiVo CSR wanted to get you off the phone (also possible).


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

Well, the first question is simply to figure out how low I need to be. I believe I am low enough now, since I get 0 RS Corrected/Uncorrected values now, over very long tune times.

Although FIOS people might use 12db attenuators, this doesn't tell me what signal stregth they were aiming for, so it's not very meaningful. I'll try to dig around that thread a bit more, but I imagine I should be ok at this level (again, given the RS values).

You're right, it might simply be time to call Tivo support again, and tell them where I am so that they can see that this is not the problem...


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If you are seeing anything less than millions of RS Uncorrected errors, attenuation is not an issue and will make 0 difference.

Reading this thread and your responses, I see only *one* suggestion that might make a difference:



bkdtv said:


> I would suggest a Next Generation Remote Control Extender ($33 @ Amazon, when in stock). That will add UHF capability to the TiVo remote. With this product, you place the included IR receiver "eye" over the IR sensor on the front of the TiVo and cover it with black electrical tape to prevent interference from reflected IR signals.
> 
> The TiVo's IR sensor is located to the right of the record lights and just to the left of the "Fixed" text; if you have trouble locating it, shine a flash light on the front of the TiVo and look for the round circle just to the left of the "Fixed" text.


If it doesn't make a difference, you can always return the product to Amazon.com.

I'm told that TiVo improved the IR receiver on the TiVo Premiere to better operate in less-than-ideal conditions, but that may not be an option if you are already outside your return period.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

bkdtv: Agreed, that might be a way to go. I'll have to talk to Tivo Support this weekend and see what we can do.

I have also finally video-recorded the problem last night. I need to rotate the video feeds (taken sideways on a digital camera) and see if I need to tweak the brightness and such, but I think I captured it clearly. There are 5 sets of video, and each one shows the red LED on the remote, as well as the front of the TivoHD. I started by showing the missed commands with everything on, then one-by-one turned off the TV, lights, and covered the big window for each successive sequence (a the ones with the lights off are notably dark, but you can clearly see the Tivo LED and remote LED.) In ALL cases, the Tivo was missing remote commands (even with the lights off, TV off, and shades closed)... and there is nothing in between the Tivo and remote except about 3 feet of air.

I plan to tweak the videos this weekend, and post up a webpage with each one, so that it's clear.

As for the RS values, I captured those immediately afterwards as well. RS Corrected showed something like 18 for 600+ seconds of tune (0 for uncorrected)... and the other tuner showed 198 for 6000+ seconds of tune. As bkdtv said, these numbers are low, so signal/attenuation is not an issue. I will bring this up with the Tivo call as well.

Incidentally, both tuners showed signal strengths of 93, with 35db SNR...


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

New thread started (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=445301) since the title of this one doesn't really reflect the problem I have been facing.

Also, I documented the problem (with pictures and video captures) here: http://schwinn.hopto.org/tivo.html

For anyone who is interested...


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

schwinn said:


> New thread started (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=783789)


I get the following error when I click the link.

Invalid $idname specified. The post or the thread may have been moved into the archive.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

waynomo said:


> I get the following error when I click the link.
> 
> Invalid $idname specified. The post or the thread may have been moved into the archive.


Weird, don't know what happened there. New thread is here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=445301

And I fixed it on the previous post, too.


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## FattyArbuckle (Apr 10, 2008)

This has suddenly become an issue for me. My TivoHD was working fine for almost a year. Suddenly the remote doesn't register various button presses. If it does register, a single press will result in two (or more) cursor shifts on-screen when navigating menus, etc. The amber light sometimes stays on afterwards until another button press.

Moving the remote about an inch away from the IR sensor in the Tivo box usually gets it working, but not that much point in a remote then, obv. No glass btwn the remote & the box.

Changed the batteries, used my old remote from S2 w/fresh batt & had same issue. Online chat w/Tivo tech supp suggested a $49 "advance exchange" to replace the box, looks like the IR sensor may be suddenly on the fritz. They couldn't handle through chat, so I'd need to call.

Unfortunately no time to deal w/it @ the moment... Was luckily able to navigate to the Settings & turn on Network Controls, now using my iPhone remote as a temporary workaround.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

See my updated post on the thread I started about my issue: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=445301


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