# 9.3 TiVoHD Problems



## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

Got 9.3a on two TiVo HDs today, both connected using HDMI. 

One TiVo works perfectly. On the other, the picture goes out whenever the output resolution changes. 

When I switch to Component Video, all works well. Anyone else experiencing this?


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm having a problem with 9.3a where EVERY recording will play for 2-3 seconds and them stall out. Extremely frustrating. Any way for me to go back???


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

mazman said:


> Got 9.3a on two TiVo HDs today, both connected using HDMI.
> 
> One TiVo works perfectly. On the other, the picture goes out whenever the output resolution changes.
> 
> When I switch to Component Video, all works well. Anyone else experiencing this?


Have you tried switching the HDMI cables to see if the problem flows the cable?



BrianAZ said:


> I'm having a problem with 9.3a where EVERY recording will play for 2-3 seconds and them stall out. Extremely frustrating. Any way for me to go back???


Have you tried a reboot and do you have the external HDD option on it?


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

BrianAZ said:


> I'm having a problem with 9.3a where EVERY recording will play for 2-3 seconds and them stall out. Extremely frustrating. Any way for me to go back???


Not without calling Tivo.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

mazman said:


> Got 9.3a on two TiVo HDs today, both connected using HDMI.
> 
> One TiVo works perfectly. On the other, the picture goes out whenever the output resolution changes.


Are you using fixed 1080i or fixed 720p on both boxes? If you use native or hybrid settings, your picture will go out when your TV changes resolutions.

If your picture goes out with a fixed 720p or fixed 1080i setting, that would suggest a HDMI cable problem.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> Not without calling Tivo.


Not even *with *calling TiVo.


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Are you using fixed 1080i or fixed 720p on both boxes? If you use native or hybrid settings, your picture will go out when your TV changes resolutions.
> 
> If your picture goes out with a fixed 720p or fixed 1080i setting, that would suggest a HDMI cable problem.


I've tried most/all of the settings and the issue exists with each of them.

I've used the HDMI cable for several months with no issues - they started today with the new software.


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## xkahn (Jan 5, 2004)

I just rebooted my box to get the 9.3 upgrade on my TiVo HD. All went well (and fast) but now I'm getting static on the screen.

At first, I was seeing colorful static on Live TV. Going to the cable card diagnostics menu showed the channels fine, so I tried again. Still static. So then I went back to the diagnostics menu, changed channels for a while, then went back to Live TV and changed channels a while. That fixed it, although I had to do it for both tuners.

Then, viewing the Now Playing list, the screen showed static again instead of the TiVo interface. Switching back to Live TV and back to Now Playing fixed the problem, but uhhh... 

Anyone else seeing this? Is there a solution? Does it go away after a while?


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

BrianAZ said:


> I'm having a problem with 9.3a where EVERY recording will play for 2-3 seconds and them stall out. Extremely frustrating. Any way for me to go back???





MANOWAR©;6191408 said:


> Have you tried a reboot and do you have the external HDD option on it?


I rebooted after I posted and it seems to have resolved the issue at least temporarily. I do have an external HDD. Did this happen to you?


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## xkahn (Jan 5, 2004)

So I rebooted and got nothing. I called TiVo, and they said no one else has reported the problem. (But understand that the tech may not have all open cases in front of them.)

I can fix the problem by forcibly changing the resolution of the show using the format button on the front, so it's not the end of the world.

I'm using HDMI to DVI. No one else is seeing this?


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

mazman said:


> Got 9.3a on two TiVo HDs today, both connected using HDMI.
> 
> One TiVo works perfectly. On the other, the picture goes out whenever the output resolution changes.
> 
> When I switch to Component Video, all works well. Anyone else experiencing this?


Yes, but a bit different. I have HDMI to DVI connection on my 19" Sanyo upstairs and when I tried the new "Find Programs and Downloads, then go to download movie and web video I got a screen of static. I tried to change from 750 Hybrid to just Hybrid but that did not help. Turning my TV off and on resolved the problem so it appears to be a handshaking issue but it also happened a couple of other areas so I had to switch back to component.

Now I have the problem I had before with my picture being slightly green when I first turn on the TV. Channel changing resolves that.

So I can either reconnect the HDMI to DVI or put up with the color problem and channel changing. Either way requires an action on my part. But I think I'll just stay with the component because it's much easier and faster just to change a channel then to restart the television.

I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed about this. I can understand them missing the handshaking issue but the color display via component I would have thought may have been fixed with this upgrade.

On the bright side as some of you remember there was a time when we had to get up, turn the TV on, mess with the tuner or move the antenna. One TV I had I had to slap it on the side to get it to work. So I guess changing a channel with a remote isn't all that bad.

My 30" Sony which is HDMI to HDMI did not experience any problems. I have that set on "Native."


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

mazman said:


> Got 9.3a on two TiVo HDs today, both connected using HDMI.
> 
> One TiVo works perfectly. On the other, the picture goes out whenever the output resolution changes.
> 
> When I switch to Component Video, all works well. Anyone else experiencing this?


I am having the SAME EXACT problem with my Tivo HD this morning. On HDMI, any time the resolution changes I get a static/snow picture instead of the actual signal. The only fix is to unplug and replug the hdmi cable. This is totally unacceptable.

Swapping out to component cables makes the problem go away, but this is totally unacceptable. I'll be calling Tivo today for a replacement if they can't or won't fix this via a quick software update.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

dropd said:


> I am having the SAME EXACT problem with my Tivo HD this morning. On HDMI, any time the resolution changes I get a static/snow picture instead of the actual signal. The only fix is to unplug and replug the hdmi cable. This is totally unacceptable.
> 
> Swapping out to component cables makes the problem go away, but this is totally unacceptable. I'll be calling Tivo today for a replacement if they can't or won't fix this via a quick software update.


More on the issue:

I also am using HDMI-to-DVI, and I also do have the external hard drive. This combination has worked perfectly for me up until today.

(and a reboot did NOT solve the problem)

(and swapping out a different HDMI-DVI cable also didn't help - the problem does appear to be genuinely a tivo issue)


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

Interesting. Last evening was my first with 9.3a. At one point I returned to paused Live TV from the menus and was greeted by colorful snow. When I unpaused it soon recovered. However, I never saw such snow with 9.2a. I'm using HDMI.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dropd said:


> I am having the SAME EXACT problem with my Tivo HD this morning. On HDMI, any time the resolution changes I get a static/snow picture instead of the actual signal. The only fix is to unplug and replug the hdmi cable. This is totally unacceptable.
> 
> Swapping out to component cables makes the problem go away, but this is totally unacceptable. I'll be calling Tivo today for a replacement if they can't or won't fix this via a quick software update.


I have had this problem (I get it 50% of the time when i turn on my HDTV) for four years when i first got my HDTV and was using the cable co DVR using the HDMI connection, when I got a Series 3 the problem was the same and still is today so I don't think its a TiVo problem. I solved it by connecting the TiVo by component cables and HDMI to the HDTV, than when needed switch the HDTV to component than back to HDMI. If anybody knows the answer to this problem I would love to know.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

lessd said:


> I have had this problem (I get it 50% of the time when i turn on my HDTV) for four years when i first got my HDTV and was using the cable co DVR using the HDMI connection, when I got a Series 3 the problem was the same and still is today so I don't think its a TiVo problem. I solved it by connecting the TiVo by component cables and HDMI to the HDTV, than when needed switch the HDTV to component than back to HDMI. If anybody knows the answer to this problem I would love to know.


I'm pretty sure it's a tivo problem. I have been using my tivo HD since November and have never ever had this issue before this software update. Before I had the Tivo HD I had a cable box with DVI and also never had the issue. I have an Xbox 360 that uses HDMI-DVI on the same TV and never ever have this issue. The only thing that's changed is software update 9.3a.


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

Update: After playing around with all the differing resolutions, I'm OK if I keep the resolution set to a fixed resoultion. If I use anything other than fixed, the picture goes out (and stays out). If I use a component connection, all is well regardless of the resolution.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

mazman said:


> Update: After playing around with all the differing resolutions, I'm OK if I keep the resolution set to a fixed resoultion. If I use anything other than fixed, the picture goes out (and stays out). If I use a component connection, all is well regardless of the resolution.


Yep, that's the same behavior I have, exactly. There's some bug in the way the Tivo HD is switching resolutions via HDMI. However, I vastly prefer using "Native" for all the 480i-resolution shows I have, and hope Tivo pays attention and issues a real fix.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

mazman said:


> Update: After playing around with all the differing resolutions, I'm OK if I keep the resolution set to a fixed resoultion. If I use anything other than fixed, the picture goes out (and stays out). If I use a component connection, all is well regardless of the resolution.


The older version does the same thing. I had to go to fixed to maintain a constant picture.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

Scott D said:


> The older version does the same thing. I had to go to fixed to maintain a constant picture.


Scott: Are you referring to a constant snow/static picture happening to you?

There's a "normal" blip that happens in native and hybrid/native mode where the picture temporarily goes black with a little wave, and then comes back after a second or so, whenever the resolution switches. That blip is normal and expected behavior in Native mode.

What we've been complaining about is that the picture goes away entirely, replaced by just fuzz. No picture comes back, at all. A very different phenomenon.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

mazman said:


> Update: After playing around with all the differing resolutions, I'm OK if I keep the resolution set to a fixed resoultion. If I use anything other than fixed, the picture goes out (and stays out). If I use a component connection, all is well regardless of the resolution.


Still not good. You have to put up with the bars on non hd shows (I think).

My component connection stayed with the greenish tone even after changing channels and turning it on and off. for some time and before you ask, yes the wires are correct. I'll play around some more this weekend. I'll probabl just put my HDMI to DVI connection back up and just turn the set off and on when this happens because that does fix it.

Until the next time.


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## ZXTT95 (Oct 31, 2007)

They've apparently introduced a problem, because I have the exact same things as being reported here - I won't say "bug" because I can't prove all my other gear adheres to the standard. I have two TiVo HDs, in different rooms. On the morning of the 9.3 update to the second one, the snow started. We'd never seen this before. The only change was the new TiVo software.

Connection details: video connected to a Sony receiver via HDMI, from receiver to TV via HDMI-to-DVI cable. Audio is connected via optical because this receiver will not output audio received from HDMI if is connected to the TV using DVI (this is a limitation of the receiver). WD DVR Expander.

I normally set the resolution to 1080i Hybrid. Yesterday when the snow started, I was able to get a picture by cycling the receiver through its inputs. Today, I noticed that the TiVo had gone and set itself to 1080i Fixed (both of our units have done this by themselves before). I set it back to 1080i Hybrid, started a 480i show and there was the snow. It had been working fine before I changed the video settings. I changed back to 1080i Fixed and then it was working fine again.


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## Dancar (Oct 8, 2001)

HDMI-related issues are just as likely to be the fault of the TV as the fault of the TiVo. Even if all was good proir to the update, changes to the HDMI handshake may be legal according to the HDMI spec, but your TV doesn't support them.

It would be helpful if anyone who reports an HDMI-related issue also lets us know the make/model of their TV. We may begin to see a pattern.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

Dancar said:


> HDMI-related issues are just as likely to be the fault of the TV as the fault of the TiVo. Even if all was good proir to the update, changes to the HDMI handshake may be legal according to the HDMI spec, but your TV doesn't support them.
> 
> It would be helpful if anyone who reports an HDMI-related issue also lets us know the make/model of their TV. We may begin to see a pattern.


My TV is a Sony KF-42WE610.

Even if it turns out to be "legal" according to a spec, it's still the tivo that has changed its behavior, and I would consider that a functional bug in the tivo - my tv isn't going to get a downloaded software upgrade, for instance. And it's not like I can choose to roll back my software version on the tivo. It behooves tivo to make sure they're not excluding potential customers - my tv cost a lot more than the tivo HD did, so if one of the 2 has to go, it's going to be the tivo.


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## tomers (Aug 14, 2006)

Sony KF-60WE610 connected to TiVoHD via HDMI-to-DVI adapter.

Just noticed the "snow" problem today. I concur it happens in Native Mode but not in Fixed 1080i Mode. When it did happen, I found two fixes: 1. unplug and re-plug the HDMI cable, 2. Turn the TV off then on again. 

But the easiest workaround was to put the TiVo's output to Fixed 1080i mode (or probably any other Fixed mode). 

In the past every once in a while I would get a TiVo message when I played a show saying something like "HDMI connection not detected". It would appear for a second, then disappear and my show would start. My guess is that with 9.3a, we're no longer getting the courtesy of that error message. When TiVo can't handshake with the TV instantaneously, the picture turns to snow immediately.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

Dancar said:


> HDMI-related issues are just as likely to be the fault of the TV as the fault of the TiVo. Even if all was good proir to the update, changes to the HDMI handshake may be legal according to the HDMI spec, but your TV doesn't support them.
> 
> It would be helpful if anyone who reports an HDMI-related issue also lets us know the make/model of their TV. We may begin to see a pattern.


Sony Wega...no problem HDMI to HDMI.

Sanyo HDMI to DVI. Problem. It happens whenever I go from HD to SD or vice versa. Turning off and turning on the set resolves the problem or setting to 720P Fixed.


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## hawkinsb (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm in fixed 720p mode on HDMI, and after using 9.3 on my Tivo HD for a couple of days, I got up this morning to find that my picture was "digital HDMI snow" for lack of a better term. Turning the TV off and on and changing the TV input away and back did not clear the problem. Went back to component...


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## hanbybd (Apr 19, 2008)

Tivo HD. 9.3a. Static snow here when on Hybrid, Native. Now set to 1080i Fixed.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

tomers said:


> Sony KF-60WE610 connected to TiVoHD via HDMI-to-DVI adapter.
> 
> Just noticed the "snow" problem today. I concur it happens in Native Mode but not in Fixed 1080i Mode. When it did happen, I found two fixes: 1. unplug and re-plug the HDMI cable, 2. Turn the TV off then on again.
> 
> But the easiest workaround was to put the TiVo's output to Fixed 1080i mode (or probably any other Fixed mode).


I get that snow on my screen to. But whats the problem with it? seems fine to me.


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## vegastv123 (Apr 19, 2008)

Tivo HD 9.3a --> Sony XBR70 DVI


Same issue as the others here. Started Thurs eve. 
I'm glad I checked the forum because I thought it was my hardware. Apparently it's the Tivo upgrade.

I have an HDMI switch between the 2 so if I change the switch selector from the Tivo to BluRay and back again it will change from snow to a picture.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

Seems like it's just HDMI-DVI experiencing the problem. I understand it's a handshaking issue but it wasn't a problem prior to this update. So for the first time I'm blaming TiVo. Sure we can use component to resolve the issue but we shouldn't have to.

If you've got a HDMI to DVI connection and you're not experiencing this problem please jump in and let us know. I find it hard to believe that there are no beta testers out there with this type of connection. Having said that I believe some people are not experiencing this issue.


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

tomers said:


> Sony KF-60WE610 connected to TiVoHD via HDMI-to-DVI adapter.


That's my EXACT same setup. I use the DVI connector because the two Component Connectors are already in use.

I decided to go with the 720P Fixed Resolution with bars on the side of SD shows. There are some occasions I like stretching SD shows using Sony's 'Wide Zoom', but that won't work at 720P. I have to use TiVo's 'Full Aspect' which (for me) is less desirable.

Hopefully, TiVo will fix this...


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

tootal2 said:


> I get that snow on my screen to. But whats the problem with it? seems fine to me.


Huh? You're ok with having snow instead of, you know, actually watching the picture? To be clear: the problem we are all complaining about here is static that DOES NOT GO AWAY - there is no other picture than the snow. How can that seem 'fine'?


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

dropd said:


> Huh? You're ok with having snow instead of, you know, actually watching the picture? To be clear: the problem we are all complaining about here is static that DOES NOT GO AWAY - there is no other picture than the snow. How can that seem 'fine'?


I only see it for 1/2 second while its changing video formats. I didnt know people 
were getting static that dont go away.


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## TonyMac (Oct 28, 2007)

I've had my TiVo HD for a couple of months now. Connected HDMI to DVI to my Samsung DLP tv since the TV has no HDMI port. Audio is through standard audio (red/white) connectors to the TV and Optical to my receiver - use that when surround is wanted (movies, sports, etc).
My video output mode is "Hybrid" (1080p and 1080i as 1080i, 720p as 720, sd at 480p) since my TV doesn't support 1080p.

Last week I noticed the "snow" problem. This happens when the video mode changes. For me this means going in and out of the menus at times. Also when switching from HD to non-HD channels. I do have the latest 9.3a software so I believe that is the reason for the issue.

This morning - adding insult to injury - had the video freezing problem. Had to reset the unit to clear it up. Saw this when I first got the unit but it had been very well behaved for a while. Looks like the new SW brought back that issue.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I also have a Tivo HD connected by HDMI->DVI and have the snow problem whenever it changes resolutions. I switched the display output from native to 1080 fixed and that seems to be a work-around. I'm kind of relieved to read here that it's not a problem with my budget Olevia TV! I'm still on the 9.2 software though, so I guess I should wait to comment more until I get the latest version.

(Edit: I just checked and it looks like I do have the newest 9.3 software after all. Hopefully they'll fix this issue in the next release, but thankfully 1080 fixed mode seems to be working fine...)


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## li33gwm (Aug 21, 2004)

Got the update and I have no picture at all!! Have audio, but no video - TiVo Central does not even appear on screen. The powering up screen shows when rebooting, but that's about it. Called TiVo and since I'm within my 30 days of th eunit, they'll replace it, but....they won't have any for 2-4 weeks!! They wouldn't offer a temporary replacement either - don't think that's right! Any suggestions?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

li33gwm said:


> Got the update and I have no picture at all!! Have audio, but no video - TiVo Central does not even appear on screen. The powering up screen shows when rebooting, but that's about it. Called TiVo and since I'm within my 30 days of th eunit, they'll replace it, but....they won't have any for 2-4 weeks!! They wouldn't offer a temporary replacement either - don't think that's right! Any suggestions?


If they don't have any then how could they offer a temporary replacement? If it comes down to a new or refurbished unit, just get the refurbished unit if it will get you one quicker. As long as they give you the same warranty it shouldn't matter.


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## mbhuff (Jan 25, 2004)

I have a Series 3 connected via HDMI->DVI connection to a Toshiba HD CRT (30"). Directly after the upgrade when it first came up, the entire screen was snow, but I powed off the TV and back on, and it came back on fine. I have powered the TV on/off as well as rebooted the S3 without a reoccurance. I'm willing to bet it's an HDCP issue. I know there have been issues with older DVI-HDMI cables


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## li33gwm (Aug 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> If they don't have any then how could they offer a temporary replacement? If it comes down to a new or refurbished unit, just get the refurbished unit if it will get you one quicker. As long as they give you the same warranty it shouldn't matter.


Good point - I was referring to them sending me a refurbished one until the new ones come in.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

When I first got my Sanyo HD I just used the cable STB and component since the DVI on the STB didn't work. It worked just fine.

Then when I got the TiVo HD I noticed that the picture looked off. Just like a tinting problem. I found I could resolve with either turning it off and on or just change channels. That is when I decided to get the DVI adapter. Before the update it worked great. No problem on any channels, and I kept it on 720p hybrid because the DVI would not support 480i, even though component did.

Now the update, and I'm back to component! But what irritates me is that now to fix that "tinting" issue I have to first go to a SD channel, then go to the HD channel.

If I leave it on an SD channel it comes on fine but when I switch to an HD channel I have the tint problem, so I have to switch back to SD and then to HD again.

1. It worked fine via component with cable STB
2. Had picture color or tinting problem once I got TiVo HD
3. Solved that problem by getting HDMI to DVI adapter
4. TiVo broke it with 9.3!

Now I'm an admitted fan boy but this is just crazy. It should at least work correctly with component but I still got to do a little dance to make that work.

TiVo - Please don't send me to the dark side. It's ugly over there.


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## li33gwm (Aug 21, 2004)

Update at 2:30pm - After a frustrating one hour plus call with a TiVo rep, I am getting a refurbished Series 3 to replace my 20 old day brand new one with a one-time lifetime service transfer to that box.

Was (and I guess still am) a little bit uneasy about a refurbished box but I don't want to be without TV for however long it will take to get a brand new box (TiVo says they have been out of boxes for awhile now and don't know when they'll get new ones in). I also tried to explain to the rep (and supervisor I was finally aboe to get after pleading a dozen times for one) that I am essentially being gipped out of $150 (The refurbished untis are this much less than the new ones). On top of that was charged $863 (which I will get refunded when I return my box). Why I am being charged $863 for a box that on the TiVo site is $449 boggles my mind -- the excuse was that the computer recognizes I should be getting a new one so its charging the full retail price. A bunch of BS I think!

Not happy with the treatment for someone who just bought 3 TiVo units and put lifetime on 2 of them in the past 20 days.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

li33gwm said:


> A bunch of BS I think!
> 
> Not happy with the treatment for someone who just bought 3 TiVo units and put lifetime on 2 of them in the past 20 days.


Yep it sure is. That's why I won't buy from TiVo. I purchase at Circuit City where I can get a three year full replacement warranty for 60.00 bucks.

Now because I do that nothing breaks, of course.

Knock on wood.


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## li33gwm (Aug 21, 2004)

ldudek said:


> Yep it sure is. That's why I won't buy from TiVo. I purchase at Circuit City where I can get a three year full replacement warranty for 60.00 bucks.
> 
> Now because I do that nothing breaks, of course.
> 
> Knock on wood.


I learned my lesson big time -- an expensive one too! One of the reps suggested that I go to a Best Buy or some other store and purchase a unit there and return my broken one. While I let the thought simmer for a bit, I was uncomfortable for several reasons, one being that they might check the serial number and see a different service # and then I would have to start over with TiVo CS reps and have my lifetime service be an issue (since I only got a one-time .

If there is a next time, its a Best Buy or Circuit City for me!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

li33gwm said:


> I learned my lesson big time -- an expensive one too! One of the reps suggested that I go to a Best Buy or some other store and purchase a unit there and return my broken one. While I let the thought simmer for a bit, I was uncomfortable for several reasons, one being that they might check the serial number and see a different service # and then I would have to start over with TiVo CS reps and have my lifetime service be an issue (since I only got a one-time .
> 
> If there is a next time, its a Best Buy or Circuit City for me!


That called theft in my book, you should turn in that CSR.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

li33gwm said:


> Update at 2:30pm - After a frustrating one hour plus call with a TiVo rep, I am getting a refurbished Series 3 to replace my 20 old day brand new one with a one-time lifetime service transfer to that box.
> 
> Was (and I guess still am) a little bit uneasy about a refurbished box but I don't want to be without TV for however long it will take to get a brand new box (TiVo says they have been out of boxes for awhile now and don't know when they'll get new ones in). I also tried to explain to the rep (and supervisor I was finally aboe to get after pleading a dozen times for one) that I am essentially being gipped out of $150 (The refurbished untis are this much less than the new ones). On top of that was charged $863 (which I will get refunded when I return my box). Why I am being charged $863 for a box that on the TiVo site is $449 boggles my mind -- the excuse was that the computer recognizes I should be getting a new one so its charging the full retail price. A bunch of BS I think!
> 
> Not happy with the treatment for someone who just bought 3 TiVo units and put lifetime on 2 of them in the past 20 days.


You're not the only one that's been screwed by them. If I didn't love TiVo so much I would have dropped them after my last experience with their customer service when they screwed me out of $400. But there was no recourse for me. Plus they had made a mistake before and didn't charge me for the lifetime service, so it almost equaled out except for the hours I spent on the phone with my blood pressure boiling. 
But I love TiVo and there is no way I can do without my TiVo boxes. So I'm with them to the end.


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## Dan Theman (Oct 25, 2007)

ldudek said:


> Seems like it's just HDMI-DVI experiencing the problem. I understand it's a handshaking issue but it wasn't a problem prior to this update. So for the first time I'm blaming TiVo. Sure we can use component to resolve the issue but we shouldn't have to.


I am having the same problem.
Tivo HD with a HDMI-DVI connection set to Native mode
I get snow about 50% of the time when doing something that causes Tivo to change resolutions.
(The snow then stays until you change resolutions again or powercycle the TV)
This only started happening after 9.3a
workaround is to turn the tv off & on or set tivo to a fixed resolution

I just got off the phone with Tivo customer service...
They suggested that I try "amplifying the antenna" and see if that fixes it.
I don't think they understood that this happens with the tivo menus, prerecorded shows, as well as live TV (and it's digital cable, I don't have an antenna)
sigh....

I pointed him to this site and said there is a thread here where a bunch of other people with HDMI-DVI connections are having the exact same problem and we all started having it only after 9.3 was installed, so it sounds like it is definitely a bug with 9.3a. Then he said "we are aware of the problem and working on a solution" I don't know that I believe him, since he just told me to amplify my antenna not 30 seconds earlier. At least he was nice...

I encourage everyone that is having this problem to please contact Tivo and let them know it is affecting you. The more people that call & complain, the more likely a fix will happen sooner rather than later.


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## Dancar (Oct 8, 2001)

So the pattern is HDMI->DVI cables, and using Hybrid mode. 

Does anyone have issues when using 720 or 1080 fixed?


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## Dan Theman (Oct 25, 2007)

Dancar said:


> So the pattern is HDMI->DVI cables, and using Hybrid mode.
> 
> Does anyone have issues when using 720 or 1080 fixed?


I have not been able to reproduce the problem when set to a fixed resolution. Unfortunately I hate to run it fixed because when watching SD shows I have to choose between "Wide" or "Zoom" and I can't use the "WideZoom" setting that is built into my TV.


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## li33gwm (Aug 21, 2004)

Just went to Costco - bought my 2nd HD unit in 2 days and both still not showing anything in 1080i. I have to leave the settings on the TiVo on 720p fixed in order for video to show -- no problem with audio in any of the settings.

I have a SONY XBR 1080p TV - so its not the TV! Could 2 units be bad/faulty??


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

mbhuff said:


> I have a Series 3 connected via HDMI->DVI connection to a Toshiba HD CRT (30"). Directly after the upgrade when it first came up, the entire screen was snow, but I powed off the TV and back on, and it came back on fine. I have powered the TV on/off as well as rebooted the S3 without a reoccurance. I'm willing to bet it's an HDCP issue. I know there have been issues with older DVI-HDMI cables


As you suspected, full static/snow means the HDCP decryption has gone awry and you are seeing random data on the screen.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

lessd said:


> I solved it by connecting the TiVo by component cables and HDMI to the HDTV, than when needed switch the HDTV to component than back to HDMI. If anybody knows the answer to this problem I would love to know.


If that is the sequence you need to workaround the problem, you might want to add a discrete input select for the component input into your shutdown macro on your remote. That way whenever you turn on the system, it has a chance to do the full HDMI/HDCP handshake. When the TV is already on the HDMI input, sometimes the handshake doesn't complete properly.

That's what I did for my system when I had the problem where HDMI/HDCP gets out of sync and resulting in blank screens every few minutes. Never had the problem again.


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## xkahn (Jan 5, 2004)

It's unlikely that you will see problems in Fixed mode because:


The problem only shows up when switching video modes (480 -> 720/ 720 -> 480/ 1080 -> 480, etc.)
Turning the TV on seems to always successfully reset the connection. (When the TV turns on, the TiVo notices and turns the audio off and on as well.)

But, as stated above, Fixed mode isn't a real solution since you lose your TV's ability to scale the image. Personally, my TV is MUCH better at scaling video than the TiVo is.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

li33gwm said:


> Just went to Costco - bought my 2nd HD unit in 2 days and both still not showing anything in 1080i. I have to leave the settings on the TiVo on 720p fixed in order for video to show -- no problem with audio in any of the settings.
> 
> I have a SONY XBR 1080p TV - so its not the TV! Could 2 units be bad/faulty??


I don't think recent change to snow was caused by your TV either, but not by virtue of it being a Sony XBR TV.

It still might be exposing some underlying problem on the TV's HDMI/HDCP implementation, but it does seem like TiVo initiated the change one way or another.


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## tberry61 (Nov 26, 2005)

Maybe this should be under a new heading regarding 9.3a upgrade problems but about a week ago I woke up and turned on my TV. The picture would pause/continue/pause etc. It appeared to be a Tivo problem so I called them first. They had me pop out my cablecards and try it. It appeared to work better so they suggested that the cards were bad. End of that. But the Tivo still would hesitate a lot at the menu screens so I felt that it was still a Tivo issue. I called them back up and they had me disconnect my coax. Menus worked fine! Speed was there, just no picture of course. They said it is a known problem with 6.3a and they are working on it. So I still have the cablecards popped out because I feel that this problem might have caused the issue with the cablecards. Once Tivo gets their act together I can press on with the digita cable (HD). 

Interesting thing though is that last night I was transferring a program recorded on another Tivo in the house and started watching it while it was transferring. Worked fine for a while and then the Tivo started rebooting. Sometimes the screen would be blank when it finally gets to the THX intro forcing me to unplug and plug it in. When it would come up the program would still be playing that was getting transferred and I had no control over it. Went to bed. Wife said this morning that it kept rebooting and finally came up acting normal.

I'll have to experiment with the hdmi (I have the same connection that others are having problems with)


First big problem I've had with like 6 years of Tivo service. Not happy right now.


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## Dancar (Oct 8, 2001)

li33gwm said:


> Just went to Costco - bought my 2nd HD unit in 2 days and both still not showing anything in 1080i. I have to leave the settings on the TiVo on 720p fixed in order for video to show -- no problem with audio in any of the settings.
> 
> I have a SONY XBR 1080p TV - so its not the TV! Could 2 units be bad/faulty??


If you bought you TiVos in the past few days, they probably don't have the software update yet. You might give it some time.

I have a Sony V3000 TV and 1080i looks great. The only glitch I've had since 9.3a is occasionally losing audio - the boop-back button seems to fix it.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Add me to the list of people bitten by this bug. 

(TiVo Series3) ---HDMI-to-DVI---> (Lumagen DVI scaler) ---DVI-to-HDMI---> Optoma HD70 projector

Series3 is running in "native" video mode. This set up has remained unchanged for 3-4 months, and worked perfectly until the 9.3a release. When I do something in the menus to force a resolution change (for example, delete a TTCB video after I've finished watching it), I'm presented with the "colored snow". Multiple hits of the TiVo button don't fix the problem, but going to live TV and then back into TiVo Central seems to correct the problem.

Definitely introduced in 9.3a, and definitely related to resolution changes over HDMI.

Not necessarily a show stopper for me, as there's an easy work-around, but it's still a pain to deal with...


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

Dancar said:


> The only glitch I've had since 9.3a is occasionally losing audio - the boop-back button seems to fix it.


This is also the only problem I have had since 9.3A, but I don't lose audio to the program, just the Tivo sound effects. They go quite, and a bloop-back causes a very high pictched "bloop" and all is well again for a day or so.

I am running in native mode and the only resolution problem I have seen in 9.2 or 9.3 is, sometimes the menus are very small and going back to TV and then menus fixes that.


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## galen (Apr 23, 2008)

Hello all,

I am new to this whole tivo game but let me throw my two cents in on the hdmi question. My experience comes from old 8300HD and the new crappy HDC. The 8300HD always required that the TV was turned on after the cable box otherwise the handshake between boxes failed. The 8300HD would not ever function through a repeater(did not try one that was 1.3a only 1.2). The 8300HD had 1.0 hdmi I believe. The HDC box never had this issue and is capable of working with repeaters. In the SA world this was a an issue of HDMI port capability. The newer ones work better. (search 8300HD HDMI receivers)

Try the following:

1. Always power up the tivo first
2. Turn on the tv while on HDMI port 

You should be ok at that point. (this seems to be what people are saying when they turn off/on the tv with the tivo on and it works. I saw this with the 8300HD when I turned on the tv first I would get black screen with audio over optical still working fine.) The 8300HDC does not have this issue and it has newer HDMI port 1.2 and works fine with repeaters.

I can't explain why this would change with a software update.

One other thing, if I turn on the tv to play xbox then switch to cable/hdmi I have to turn off the TV to receive picture. I end up turning off the tv and turning it back on. This is another symptom of a bad handshake.
______________
Like I said I am new to tivo so hope this works for people. I am will be setting up my series 3 on Friday.

Btw, it is the new 8300HDC that has helped me see the tivo light. It is so bad I would try anything...tivo here we go!


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

I did some more research last night, and dug up some more details. In my case, the loss/restoration of HDMI handshake is *DEFINITELY* tied to a change in resolution. Rebooting the box only temporarily resolves the problem.

While watching LiveTV, I hit the "channel up" button a few times. When the old channel and new channel have the same resolution, things are great. When the old channel and new channel have different resolutions, there's a flash of colorful snow and then the video is restored. This is not a big deal for me, since who channel surfs any more, but it is an indication of the problem at hand.

I can reliably get the colorful snow to occur quite simply, and with interesting results. I have a few videos on my Series3 that I transferred to it with pyTivo. The videos play out fine. The problem occurs when I exit the video by hitting the LEFT CURSOR button, in order to delete the video. As soon as the menu screen appears, I get the colored snow. This is 100% reproducable.

The interesting part occurs in trying to resolve the problem :

Prior to watching the pyTivo video, I went into LiveTV and selected a *1080i* channel. Now, I go into NPL, select the pyTivo video, begin playout, and attempt to delete it -- I get the colored snow. Hitting the "live" button, and then the "TiVo" button forces a resolution change (XXX --> 1080i --> 720p) and video is *restored*.

Now, the next time around I'll do the same as above, but select a *720p * LiveTV channel prior to playing the pyTivo video. Play the video, try to delete it, colored snow -- all the same as before. Now, when I hit "live" and "TiVo" buttons, video is *NOT RESTORED* and stays with the colored snow. No resolution change has occurred (XXX --> 720p --> 720p). At this point, my video is hosed throughout the TiVo menus. I need to go into LiveTV and channel up until I hit a 1080i channel, at which point video is restored.

I called TiVo last night and set up a trouble ticket. If anyone else is going to call TiVo, and would like to refer their CSR to my ticket number, PM me and I will provide my ticket # to you.

Another thing that occurred to me is that since these are very likely to be HDMI issues, the other video outputs should be fine. To help diagnose the problem further when it occurs, you could hook up another display to one of the other video outputs (composite, s-video or component) and navigate the TiVo menus. From there, you should be able to go into Diagnostics and/or System Information and see if your HDMI handshake has been broken.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

galen said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this whole tivo game but let me throw my two cents in on the hdmi question. My experience comes from old 8300HD and the new crappy HDC. The 8300HD always required that the TV was turned on after the cable box otherwise the handshake between boxes failed. The 8300HD would not ever function through a repeater(did not try one that was 1.3a only 1.2). The 8300HD had 1.0 hdmi I believe. The HDC box never had this issue and is capable of working with repeaters. In the SA world this was a an issue of HDMI port capability. The newer ones work better. (search 8300HD HDMI receivers)
> 
> ...


The problem is the tivo seems to "re-handshake" every time it changes resolution (between 480i and 1080i, for example). So it's not a matter of turning things on in various orders - for those workarounds to work, you have to KEEP turning things on and off or cycling inputs. This is not a practical workaround.


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## doconeill (Dec 13, 2002)

tberry61 said:


> Maybe this should be under a new heading regarding 9.3a upgrade problems but about a week ago I woke up and turned on my TV. The picture would pause/continue/pause etc. It appeared to be a Tivo problem so I called them first. They had me pop out my cablecards and try it. It appeared to work better so they suggested that the cards were bad. End of that. But the Tivo still would hesitate a lot at the menu screens so I felt that it was still a Tivo issue. I called them back up and they had me disconnect my coax. Menus worked fine! Speed was there, just no picture of course. They said it is a known problem with 6.3a and they are working on it. So I still have the cablecards popped out because I feel that this problem might have caused the issue with the cablecards. Once Tivo gets their act together I can press on with the digita cable (HD).


I've seen twice now a similar problem, but only when the other tuner is tuned to an HD station and I switch to it.

It's not the "film effect" type of issue, but rather the video stutters in a whole new way I haven't seen before - it almost looks as if its playing groups of frames out of order, skipping back several frames and then forward again. I've noticed a similar stutter in the audio as well. Pausing for a brief moment seems to resolve it.

In one case, I switched to the other tuner, and the video was "stuck", with some macroblocks getting updated, but not in real time - like a bad loss of the MPEG stream. I had similar problems with a bad tuner on the DirecTiVo unit (common on the HDVR2 model), so I hope it isn't that. A reboot fixed it, and it hasn't occured again - yet.

My other unit, which is not hooked up to an HD TV so I don't have it set to use an HD stations, has never had a problem.

Is the ability to pause a tuner, switch to the other tuner, and then come back to have it still paused (or if its been longer than 30 minutes, have it playing at the back end of the buffer) new? Or have I just not noticed it before? I've been very confused when my kids pause and then forget their programs, and I come back and the program shown isn't what is supposed to be on...


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

doconeill said:


> Is the ability to pause a tuner, switch to the other tuner, and then come back to have it still paused (or if its been longer than 30 minutes, have it playing at the back end of the buffer) new? Or have I just not noticed it before? I've been very confused when my kids pause and then forget their programs, and I come back and the program shown isn't what is supposed to be on...


No, that is an old feature. That's how one can bounce back and forth between the two live buffers without missing anything.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

doconeill said:


> Is the ability to pause a tuner, switch to the other tuner, and then come back to have it still paused (or if its been longer than 30 minutes, have it playing at the back end of the buffer) new? Or have I just not noticed it before? I've been very confused when my kids pause and then forget their programs, and I come back and the program shown isn't what is supposed to be on...


That's been a feature of dual-tuner since Day One, when TiVo introduced it on the DirecTiVo way back when.


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## doconeill (Dec 13, 2002)

For some reason, I didn't think it actually stayed paused when you switched off the tuner. Maybe my mind is failing... 

Back to your regularly schedule bug complaints...


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

doconeill said:


> I've seen twice now a similar problem, but only when the other tuner is tuned to an HD station and I switch to it.
> 
> It's not the "film effect" type of issue, but rather the video stutters in a whole new way I haven't seen before - it almost looks as if its playing groups of frames out of order, skipping back several frames and then forward again. I've noticed a similar stutter in the audio as well. Pausing for a brief moment seems to resolve it.


After my box updated to 9.3a I also saw this "frames out of order" effect. It was awesome! 

I was hoping it was a problem in the broadcast. I hit RECORD. But when I went to play back the program it was fine. So I think it's a fairly minor glitch.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

Some people from the pyTivo forums have been experiencing this as well. I have had this problem (maybe a different problem, but with similar results). Here is what happens:

I would select the video to be transferred via pyTivo. Then I would start to watch the video while transferring and get snow...if I click the input button to scroll through my TV's different AV inputs, when I get back to my HDMI (Tivo), it would be at the TIvo Central screen. I could then select my video and watch it...very weird. This happened rather often to me (pre 9.3 upgrade).

Now last night one of my cable cards was not giving any sound to a couple of my HD channels so I thought that I would restart my Tivo. So when it restarted, I got the white snow during the "THX" screen (I know it was that screen because when I got back to the Tivo input, the "THX" was going away)...I had to hit my input button again to scroll through my inputs on my Tivo and when I went back to my Tivo, it was fine...

I feel better that I am not the only person have this problem...but I wonder what the solution would be.

I guess switch from HDMI to component cables for a while and see if the problem goes away?


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

MasterCephus said:


> I feel better that I am not the only person have this problem...but I wonder what the solution would be.
> 
> I guess switch from HDMI to component cables for a while and see if the problem goes away?


The short-term solution is to either set your video configuration to a fixed resolution (720p or 1080i), or use component cables.

The long-term solution is to contact TiVo and make them aware that they've broken something in the 9.3a release. They can't fix bugs that they don't know about. I have already opened a trouble ticket # with TiVo. If you'd like to be able to reference it if/when you call TiVo, feel free to PM me.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I will have to check when I get home, but I am pretty sure that my settings are 1080i fixed.

Again, I have been having this problem (just not posted it to pyTivo) pre 9.3 release.


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## twojciac (Dec 4, 2007)

PaulS said:


> The short-term solution is to either set your video configuration to a fixed resolution (720p or 1080i), or use component cables.
> 
> The long-term solution is to contact TiVo and make them aware that they've broken something in the 9.3a release. They can't fix bugs that they don't know about. I have already opened a trouble ticket # with TiVo. If you'd like to be able to reference it if/when you call TiVo, feel free to PM me.


I use fixed 720p and use HDMI adapted to DVI and I have the snow problem ever since the software upgrade.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

No problem running at Native resolutiuon for me.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

twojciac said:


> I use fixed 720p and use HDMI adapted to DVI and I have the snow problem ever since the software upgrade.





PaulS said:


> I use native resolution and use HDMI adapted to DVI and I have the snow problem ever since the software upgrade.





aaronwt said:


> No problem running at Native resolution for me.


aaronwrt-What kind of cabling are you using ?

How to resolve these (seemingly) disparate data points ?

Not entirely fixated on a simple resolution configuration. Both 720p and native suffer the same problem.

Seems to be related more to the cabling being used than anything else...


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

mazman said:


> I've tried most/all of the settings and the issue exists with each of them.
> 
> I've used the HDMI cable for several months with no issues - they started today with the new software.


I haven't been keeping track of TiVo's s/w upgrades but started experiencing snow after a resolution change last week on HDTiVo. Connection to Westinghouse LVM-37w1 monitor is via HDMI/DVI.

First thought it was a CableCARD issue because OTA channels still worked OK but cable didn't and TiVo CSR said that CC screen wasn't indicating all data it should have.

Called Comcast. Comcast tech came the next day. Tech wasn't familiar with HDTiVo and 'M' Card and called for 'back-up' tech who arrived shortly. CC checked OK. Signal strength checked OK. (Tech actually cut and installed replacement coax to optimize SS.)

After repeated experimenting the issue proved to be caused by the resolution change bug (which at the time neither the cable techs or I knew about) when TiVo was in hybrid mode. Kudos to Comcast!

Called TiVo to inform CSR, who was not familiar with the issue. Hopefully TiVo will get up to speed on this; they could have done better.


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## substance12 (Feb 6, 2008)

I also have this problem. the snow does eventually go away but it's horribly annoying and it's not something I feel i should have to put up with. At any rate... I set my tivo to fixed 720p and the problem goes away.


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## xkahn (Jan 5, 2004)

I got off the phone with a TiVoHD service rep this evening and this is what they said:


Using an HDMI->DVI cable isn't supported: get a better TV or use component video
The problem is likely the audio data being sent through the HDMI cable and "bouncing back" through the cable
My support case (which I opened on April 17th) is now marked as resolved

Maybe using a higher quality HDMI->DVI cable would help? 

I may try this company: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm

They say:



> In principle, HDMI is supposed always to be backward-compatible with DVI, so that any HDMI device should work with any DVI-D single-link device. In practice, although the two almost always work together, it's not uncommon to run into device compatibility issues.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

xkahn said:


> I got off the phone with a TiVoHD service rep this evening and this is what they said:
> 
> 
> Using an HDMI->DVI cable isn't supported: get a better TV or use component video
> ...


I can try to see if this makes a difference. Recall my video chain :

Series3 ----HDMI-to-DVI-cable----> LumagenVideoScaler ----DVI-to-HDMI-adapter/HDMI-cable---> OptomaHD70 projector

I could temporarily take the scaler out of the chain, and run the HDMI cable all the way from the Series3 to the projector. Then, try to reproduce the results. If the snow still occurs, it's something internal to the S3. If the snow doesn't occur, the HDMI/DVI conversions are the culprit.


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## Paul Curtis (Apr 3, 2008)

xkahn said:


> I got off the phone with a TiVoHD service rep this evening and this is what they said:
> 
> 
> Using an HDMI->DVI cable isn't supported: get a better TV or use component video
> ...


*GRRRRR.*

I am a TiVo newbie (just got my TiVoHD with lifetime subscription on Friday), and I am experiencing the exact same issue. I am connected via an HDMI-to-DVI cable, and operating in Hybrid mode. When the TiVo arrived, it had software 8-point-something installed, and everything worked beautifully; however, since 9.3 was downloaded and installed, I've had terrible HDMI handshaking problems whenever I switch resolutions. Sometimes I just get a quick burst of snow, but other times, the snow persists, and I have to either switch resolutions again, or power cycle the TV. Swapping cables doesn't help, and since my HDTV is a 4:3 CRT, I'd really rather not be forced to set my TiVo to 1080i fixed, since then all the SD channels would be "postage-stamped" on my display.

As the previous software did not exhibit this very annoying problem, it should theoretically be possible to have it fixed by a future update; however, if TiVo does not feel obligated to support HDMI-to-DVI connections (and I sure wish I'd known that before giving them my $698), then presumably, they will not feel obligated to issue a fix. In which case, my love affair with my new TiVo will turn out to have been very brief indeed.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I've got to say I would never attempt to go from an HDMI source to a DVI receiver. I'm sure it works sometimes, but if you ask me it's asking for trouble. I have frequently employed DVI -> HDMI with decent, albeit not perfect, results. While HDMI transmitters are supposedly backwards compatible, going from an HDMI transmitter to a DVI receiver is rather closer to requiring forward compatibility, as opposed to backwards compatibility. If it works for some of you, fine. I wouldn't be surprised it it eventually causes problems, however, even if it works perfectly today.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

its the exact same tmds transport and hdcp over ddi.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Paul Curtis said:


> Swapping cables doesn't help, and since my HDTV is a 4:3 CRT, I'd really rather not be forced to set my TiVo to 1080i fixed, since then all the SD channels would be "postage-stamped" on my display.


There's nothing heinously wrong with going to component video. As long as the connections are secure and free of oxidation, there is no appreciable visible difference between the two.

Oh, and I have a question. You actually have a 1080i capable set with a 4:3 aspect ratio? I didn't know such a beast ever existed.



Paul Curtis said:


> In which case, my love affair with my new TiVo will turn out to have been very brief indeed.


Dude, take a breath and gain some perspective, why don't you? There are two perfectly viable work-arounds for the problem, and one of them is quite inexpensive. The other would wind you up with a brand sparking new TV. As to the expectation that TiVo will bring any significant resources to bear on the issue; I wouldn't hold my breath. I certainly would not if I were them.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> There's nothing heinously wrong with going to component video. As long as the connections are secure and free of oxidation, there is no appreciable visible difference between the two.
> 
> As to the expectation that TiVo will bring any significant resources to bear on the issue; I wouldn't hold my breath. I certainly would not if I were them.


I'd rather not have to go through a whole Digital->Analog->Digital set of conversions if I didn't have to. Going from a digital signal path to an analog is a step back in quality and convenience for me, since my projector is 30' feet away from my Series3.

In any event, this is something that worked *PERFECTLY* in 9.2. TiVo introduced a bug in 9.3, which is why we're all discussing it here. TiVo has yet to correct the issue. If we can quantify exactly the circumstances under which this bug manifests itself, we can help TiVo fix the bug.


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## Paul Curtis (Apr 3, 2008)

lrhorer said:


> There's nothing heinously wrong with going to component video. As long as the connections are secure and free of oxidation, there is no appreciable visible difference between the two.


The problem here is that my Sony expects the 7.5 IRE setup pedestal on *all* analog inputs, including YPbPr, regardless of resolution. These days, nearly all consumer video sources (including, I expect, the TiVo HD) provide the pedestal on 480i signals only. I could raise the TV's brightness controls to compensate, but since the Sony does not have independent op-amp adjustments for the different inputs, I'd have to reset the brightness every time I wanted to watch a DVD, and that would be a pain in the ass.



> Oh, and I have a question. You actually have a 1080i capable set with a 4:3 aspect ratio? I didn't know such a beast ever existed.


Sure they did--the Sony KV-40XBR800, KV-36XBR800, and KD-36XS955, for starters. All of these sets have a native scan rate of 1080i--letterboxed, of course, unless you feed them with 480i/p, whereupon they automatically switch to full screen mode. This is why I have my TiVo set to hybrid mode--I want SD channels to be displayed full screen, without limiting the resolution of the HD channels.

Of course, the effective *horizontal* resolution of these TVs is limited by the pitch of the aperture grill--the 36XS955 has the Super Fine Pitch tube, which resolves something like 1400 columns across, but the other two models (including mine) are limited to 853 columns. But all three sets deliver a full 1080 lines of interlaced *vertical* resolution. And as with all CRTs, the black levels are noticeably deeper than those of almost any plasma or LCD display on the market.



> Dude, take a breath and gain some perspective, why don't you? There are two perfectly viable work-arounds for the problem, and one of them is quite inexpensive. The other would wind you up with a brand sparking new TV.


Dude, I've just explained why a component connection would not be a viable solution. And a new TV--particularly one that delivers the sort of CRT-like black levels I'm accustomed to--is well outside my budget. I just dropped $698 on a TiVo, remember?



> As to the expectation that TiVo will bring any significant resources to bear on the issue; I wouldn't hold my breath. I certainly would not if I were them.


As others have pointed out, everything was working perfectly before the firmware update, so it ought to be a fairly trivial matter to put things right again. And for the record, I have never had *any* trouble using my TV with any of my other HDMI sources--specifically, two Oppo DVD players, and a Sony Blu-ray player. Is it really unreasonable of me to expect that this expensive new TiVo would also work properly with my display?


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## Paul Curtis (Apr 3, 2008)

Incidentally, I strongly suspect that this problem has something to do with HDCP authentication, rather than the underlying data signal. When the glitch occurs, my display is still able to lock onto *a* signal, of the appropriate resolution; it's just that the signal is displayed as snow! Or sometimes I'll get a good picture, but just for a second--_then_ it turns to snow, instantaneously (without re-syncing).

Furthermore, when the connection does lock on properly (as it does maybe 90% of the time), the link is completely stable, and I don't experience any dropouts. But before the 9.3 update, it locked on 100% of the time...and I'd gladly go back to the previous software if there was any way of doing so.


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## xkahn (Jan 5, 2004)

Just because a TiVo rep gave me that list of advice doesn't mean it's definitive. The situation could change. For example, if enough people call and complain about the problem, the bug could rise in their queue. Or, it possible the rep was wrong. 

Having worked in support, there is enormous pressure to close support cases, and common complaints raise FAST to the head of development queue.

Call. Complain. Part of the money you're paying TiVo is for support. Let them know if you aren't happy.

P.S.: I'm using 1080i fixed ATM -- which is almost okay. The bug is gone, but the TiVoHD isn't as good at scaling the picture as my TV is. So I'm losing noticeable image quality, but at least only I seem to notice.


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## Paul Curtis (Apr 3, 2008)

xkahn said:


> Just because a TiVo rep gave me that list of advice doesn't mean it's definitive. The situation could change. For example, if enough people call and complain about the problem, the bug could rise in their queue. Or, it possible the rep was wrong.


I must say, that bit about audio data "bouncing back though the cable" sounded pretty bogus to me!

For what it's worth, I got on the phone a few hours ago and reported the bug to a CSR, who said although he'd never heard of it before, he would at least make a note of it. Whether that will be sufficient to get anything done, I couldn't say, but I would certainly encourage everyone else who experiences this glitch to call TiVo and let them know!


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

PaulS said:


> I can try to see if this makes a difference. Recall my video chain :
> 
> Series3 ----HDMI-to-DVI-cable----> LumagenVideoScaler ----DVI-to-HDMI-adapter/HDMI-cable---> OptomaHD70 projector
> 
> I could temporarily take the scaler out of the chain, and run the HDMI cable all the way from the Series3 to the projector. Then, try to reproduce the results. If the snow still occurs, it's something internal to the S3. If the snow doesn't occur, the HDMI/DVI conversions are the culprit.


Had a chance to do this last night. I ran a 35' length of monoprice.com 24 gauge CL2 rated HDMI cable directly from my S3 to my Optoma HD70 projector. This forced my S3 into 720-fixed video mode, to match my projector's 1280x720 native resolution. I followed the same steps to trigger the snow that I outlined before.

The behavior now is that the video will blank for a brief moment, followed by perhaps 0.5 to 1.0 seconds of snow, followed by another video blank (black), and then finally the video is fully restored. So, something in the HDMI video chain (can't really say if it's the S3 or HD70) sensed that the handshake had dropped out, and forced a refresh.

Additionally, there are two deltas here (cabling and S3 video output), so it's not a "clean" test where one specific item was isolated. IMHO the HDMI/DVI cabling plays a much larger (if not sole) part in this problem.

Unfortunately, this is not a solution for me, since it prevents all of my other video components from being able to connect to my projector. So, I'll either need to : 1) get an HDMI switch and re-work most of my video connections, 2) go component and suffer the consequences, or 3) suck it up and deal with the snow. I think I'll probably end up getting the HDMI switch from monoprice, since it's not exorbitantly expensive and I'll probably need one in the future anyways. It'll just make my wiring job a bit more complicated.


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

My circumstances were different. Aren't everbody's? But I had to hash through some HDMI issues; primary one being an incompatible device - a repeater/extender necessary inline with 70' of cable. Two of 3 components driving a long distance secondary Tv were Sony DVRs. Without a firmware update, the Tv looked like it was gagging on 720p & 1080i - because of the repeater. I tried various switches but the one I settled on was a Belkin PureAV 3-1 HDMI switch. It can be remote controlled and is powered on/off with X10 module. It had the unexpected feature of blocking the DVR with older firmware from seeing repeater as incompatible device. So both Sonys, older & newer firmware, are fine when using Belkin. This did not occur when trying other switches from familiar vendors. The downside to the Belkin is that it cuts signal strength somewhat so I could see a repeater being needed in some cases, where it wasn't before. - my secondary Tv has worse than sparkles when repeater is removed but Belkin left inline.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

hmm52 said:


> I tried various switches but the one I settled on was a Belkin PureAV 3-1 HDMI switch. It can be remote controlled and is powered on/off with X10 module. It had the unexpected feature of blocking the DVR with older firmware from seeing repeater as incompatible device. So both Sonys, older & newer firmware, are fine when using Belkin. This did not occur when trying other switches from familiar vendors. The downside to the Belkin is that it cuts signal strength somewhat so I could see a repeater being needed in some cases, where it wasn't before. - my secondary Tv has worse than sparkles when repeater is removed but Belkin left inline.


Which HDMI switches didn't work for you ?


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

Two from Monoprice that were active and remote controlled; 4X1 of some sort was one. Manual push button 2X1 was OK, but manual & limited. I preferred a switch without any active circuitry for Sony DVR to sense then switch out of component video to main display. (Sony different than TiVo; older firmware Sony doesn't sense anything with Belkin until it's switch input is selected & secondary Tv is on and in HDMI; newer firmware Sony cuts off comp. video as soon as Belkin is powered up). You are welcome to the two Monoprice manual 2X1s if you want them. No signal loss perceived with manuals until 2 connected in series. Results vary. If primary Sony was at end of 70' HDMI, with all the wall plates etc., no repeater/extender would be necessary. Not the case for a Toshiba.

I have not tried the S3 connected via HDMI direct; without going through the Belkin. So I don't know if I have update issues with 9.3. I'll check on it tonight.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

PaulS said:


> The behavior now is that the video will blank for a brief moment, followed by perhaps 0.5 to 1.0 seconds of snow, followed by another video blank (black), and then finally the video is fully restored. So, something in the HDMI video chain (can't really say if it's the S3 or HD70) sensed that the handshake had dropped out, and forced a refresh.


I don't think the behavior you describe above is necessarily related to HDMI or HDCP.

I run a TiVo HD out via component to a Sony LCD display. I keep the TiVo in native mode output (to allow the TV's scaler to do its thing). Whenever I change channels between 720p and 1080i I see pretty much the behavior you describe above. The only difference is that instead of "snow", I see a signal that has huge amounts of "tearing", like it's at a scan rate that the TV can't handle.

Just to be clear, I see something like: blank, tearing, blank, video fully restored. That's using component cables.

My other TiVo HD connects to an older RPTV that can't handle 720p. So that TiVo output is also component, but is in a different mode, either always 1080i or in some hybrid of 480p/1080i (I forget which). I don't see the video blanking, snow, blanking behavior in that output mode.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't think the behavior you describe above is necessarily related to HDMI or HDCP.
> 
> I run a TiVo HD out via component to a Sony LCD display. I keep the TiVo in native mode output (to allow the TV's scaler to do its thing). Whenever I change channels between 720p and 1080i I see pretty much the behavior you describe above. The only difference is that instead of "snow", I see a signal that has huge amounts of "tearing", like it's at a scan rate that the TV can't handle.
> 
> ...


I do see what you described as well when I change channels between two differing formats (i.e. from a 720p channel to an 1080i channel). It happens quite quickly (perhaps less than 0.5 seconds), but it is noticable and very consistent in duration.

This is different in two respects. The means to trigger it, and what happens when the behavior is triggered. All I'm doing to trigger this behavior is deleting a recording after I've finished watching it. The blanking/snow/blanking/video as a result of this is significantly longer in duration (probably on order of 1.0 to 1.5 seconds) than the simple channel changing scenario.


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## dropd (Dec 23, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> I've got to say I would never attempt to go from an HDMI source to a DVI receiver. I'm sure it works sometimes, but if you ask me it's asking for trouble. I have frequently employed DVI -> HDMI with decent, albeit not perfect, results. While HDMI transmitters are supposedly backwards compatible, going from an HDMI transmitter to a DVI receiver is rather closer to requiring forward compatibility, as opposed to backwards compatibility. If it works for some of you, fine. I wouldn't be surprised it it eventually causes problems, however, even if it works perfectly today.


Um, you do realize that HDMI was designed to be backward-compatible with DVI-D (including the HDCP part), right?


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

I have two Series 3 TiVos hooked to my network with the TiVo wireless antennas. One works great, the other will only work if I disconnect the cable which connects me to Cox Cable. 

After many calls, three reps in a row have said that this problem is a known bug in 9.3a and they are "working as fast as possible to fix it". They know that it will affect one unit but not affect another identical unit with the identical set up. The screen freezes, sometimes immediately and sometimes after a few seconds.

My workaround is that I disconnect the Cox cable to the wall. (Sometimes I have to do a hard reboot, sometimes not.) Then my remote controls the screen. I can program recordings to "tape", watch pre-recorded shows, check my settings, etc.

When I am not watching, I hook the Cox cable back up. It records fine. In order to watch what I have recorded, I unhook the cable (sometimes reboot) and watch.

TiVo reps say they think it will be fixed in the next two or three weeks, however, three weeks ago it was to have been fixed in the next week and a half.

However, they do acknowledge it is a known software problem with 9.3a. After switching HDMI cables, switching wireless antennas, switching power cords, and putting new ends on my Cox cables to eliminate other potential problems, I am thrilled to at least know it is a software issue and I haven't lost everything on my hard drive.

Barbeedoll


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## Paul Curtis (Apr 3, 2008)

xkahn said:


> Maybe using a higher quality HDMI->DVI cable would help?
> 
> I may try this company: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm


Their cables are indeed excellent, and their customer service is second to none...but FWIW, I tried one of their three-foot HDMI->DVI cables, connected directly from the TiVo HD to my TV, and it didn't cure the problem. I guess we'll just have to hope that TiVo addresses the issue in a future firmware update.

Here's my current workaround: I run the connection through an Oppo HDMI switch with remote control (the same one that's sold on the TiVo website), and whenever a resolution change goes awry and I lose my signal, I quickly switch to an unused input, then back to the TiVo, thereby forcing a resync. It's still an annoyance, but it's a lot quicker (and consumes less energy) than power-cycling the TV.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Paul Curtis said:


> The problem here is that my Sony expects the 7.5 IRE setup pedestal on *all* analog inputs, including YPbPr, regardless of resolution.


Well, that's just plain rude.



Paul Curtis said:


> These days, nearly all consumer video sources (including, I expect, the TiVo HD) provide the pedestal on 480i signals only.


Well, since I'm not using the component outputs on my TiVos, I haven't checked, but I expect you're correct.



Paul Curtis said:


> but since the Sony does not have independent op-amp adjustments for the different inputs


That's even ruder still.



Paul Curtis said:


> Of course, the effective *horizontal* resolution of these TVs is limited by the pitch of the aperture grill--the 36XS955 has the Super Fine Pitch tube, which resolves something like 1400 columns across, but the other two models (including mine) are limited to 853 columns.


Exactly. They spent a lot of money creating a great deal of real estate that can't be used except in 480i.



Paul Curtis said:


> And a new TV--particularly one that delivers the sort of CRT-like black levels I'm accustomed to--is well outside my budget. I just dropped $698 on a TiVo, remember?


I can relate. The bulb on my old Sharp projector went out a year ago, so I was faced with the prospect of either spending $500 on a new bulb for an aging unit or buying a new projector. I finally went with the new projector - an Optoma HD-82. It was $4200. Ouch.



Paul Curtis said:


> Is it really unreasonable of me to expect that this expensive new TiVo would also work properly with my display?


No, but it's not a shock it doesn't. You're definitely between a rock and a hard place.


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## ASW (Jan 18, 2007)

PaulS said:


> The short-term solution is to either set your video configuration to a fixed resolution (720p or 1080i), or use component cables.
> 
> The long-term solution is to contact TiVo and make them aware that they've broken something in the 9.3a release. They can't fix bugs that they don't know about. I have already opened a trouble ticket # with TiVo. If you'd like to be able to reference it if/when you call TiVo, feel free to PM me.


I run my S3 through an Anthem D2 video processor. Recently it started locking up the processor (with a black flashing screen) if I switched from any HD station to a 480i station. The only work-around was to switch from native to 1080i output (which poartly defeats the point of an outboard processor. In my case using the Tivo's component output did not help.


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

I have an NEC PX-50XR5A plasma being fed direct from the HDTivo via a BlueJeans HDMI cable (no DVI adapter needed), and have the same HDCP handshake problem after the 9.3a "upgrade". I am outputting Native, and the only way to get a picture back is to use component.

Everything was awesome until then.

I hope they fix this bug soon...


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## JediTim (Sep 25, 2007)

This just occurred again to me this morning...I actually had to change my setup to include cables for both HDMI and Component to the back of my LCD. The nly fix I have seen is to unplug the TV and to replug it in. 

I don't know if this is 9.3a related but it is a PITA.
Tim


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## imatt (Feb 24, 2009)

Digging up an old thread... 

I am using a HDMI-DVI cable (that works for a dvd player) to a Sony Wega from my TivoHD, and I get no video as well. Maybe this problem still exists? Tivo reports that no HDMC connection is available.


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## rockonpearl (Apr 2, 2008)

I only read the first page of this thread, which seems to be in regards to HDMI-DVI ... however I can tell you that I have nothing but issues with TIVO series 3HD and HDMI period. When I tried running HDMI through a DVDO EDGE scaler, I got jumping and irratic video and audio "squawking" when switching between menus and channels (most likely resolution related). I sent the scaler back. Now I have a brand new 47" Nuvision LCD. I tried connecting TIVO to the LCD with HDMI and everytime I change to a channel or menu that has a different reolution, my Nuvision shows "no signal". I then have to cycle the power on my LCD to bring back the picture. When I use component video, my LCD handles the native signals from TIVO perfectly. OBVISOUSLY this is a problem with TIVO's software and HDMI given all of the information on this forum. DUH! TIVO, ARE YOU LISTENING!!!!! I called them last week and they told me to get a firmware update on my LCD, so I am looking in to that, but I am going to call TIVO back and forward their attention to this forum. Thanks to you all for posting.


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