# TiVo Elite Selling Better than TiVo Expected?



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

TiVo Elite is now backordered at BestBuy.com and is sold out at all local stores in my area (Tampa Bay).


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Weaknees also sold their first alotment and is waiting for their next shipment.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

How many of those stores are Magnolia stores? I doubt most of them had any in stock to begin with since most stores aren't magnolia. I hope it sells well, but I doubt they issued a lot of stock initially.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

rainwater said:


> How many of those stores are Magnolia stores? I doubt most of them had any in stock to begin with since most stores aren't magnolia. I hope it sells well, but I doubt they issued a lot of stock initially.


At least 3. S Tampa sold out day one, and Brandon and citrus must have sold out between yesterday and today.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Other threads said Best Buys got *2* per store. That's not many. Heck, even Zunes would've probably sold out at that # per store.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

All we know for sure is that only the Magnolia stores had initial stock - other Best Buy's are "Ship to store" only.

It was also reported that the initial shipments were 2 or 3 units per store, which doesn't seem like many at all. Heck, I was personally responsible for one store selling out ... 

(Of course, answering your underlying question is impossible, since we have no idea what Tivo expected or forecast).

I suspect most of the initial sales were to Tivo fans like many of us here at TCF that were waiting for the box.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> How many of those stores are Magnolia stores? I doubt most of them had any in stock to begin with since most stores aren't magnolia. I hope it sells well, but I doubt they issued a lot of stock initially.


My Magnolia store in South Tampa had 7 in stock on Saturday night. I'm guessing we are talking about 25 or so boxes in the Tampa area. I agree that TiVo was very conservative about issuing the boxes but I know the Magnolia representative I spoke to didn't think they were going to sell out at $499 each. It will be interesting to see what the subscriber numbers show when TiVo announces quarterly earning in November.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> I suspect most of the initial sales were to Tivo fans like many of us here at TCF that were waiting for the box.


If you've been reading the TCF for the past year or so I think calling most of the readers fans wouldn't be correct! It seems like TiVo is finally on track to release a product that is worthy of an upgrade from the Series 3 platform.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mattack said:


> Other threads said Best Buys got *2* per store. That's not many. Heck, even Zunes would've probably sold out at that # per store.


Some stores got more. Sbiller and I both bought from S Tampa. They had at least one when I left since they brought 2 over to magnolia when I bought mine, and Sam got his before mine.

We are also talking about an item with a $500 price tag. Yeah it isn't going to make any records, but it seems to be selling better than best buy or TiVo thought it would.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Some stores got more. Sbiller and I both bought from S Tampa. They had at least one when I left since they brought 2 over to magnolia when I bought mine, and Sam got his before mine.
> 
> We are also talking about an item with a $500 price tag. Yeah it isn't going to make any records, but it seems to be selling better than best buy or TiVo thought it would.


Did you listen to the engadget HD podcast? I think its only a matter of time until we can convince @bjdraw to buy the Elite. He's holding out for the Preview at retail. I'm a bit puzzled why TiVo hasn't petitioned the FCC for a waiver on the Preview.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

sbiller said:


> Did you listen to the engadget HD podcast? I think its only a matter of time until we can convince @bjdraw to buy the Elite. He's holding out for the Preview at retail. I'm a bit puzzled why TiVo hasn't petitioned the FCC for a waiver on the Preview.


No it was released while I was at work so I will give it a listen tomorrow.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

It is interesting that stores that are now sold out show "Unavailable", rather than "Ship to Store", which tells me that the regional warehouses don't have additional stock.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> It is interesting that stores that are now sold out show "Unavailable", rather than "Ship to Store", which tells me that the regional warehouses don't have additional stock.


Yeah online actually sold out before our local stores.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

sbiller said:


> If you've been reading the TCF for the past year or so I think calling most of the readers fans wouldn't be correct!


LOL! Yes, sadly, you are probably correct. Poor choice of words on my part - perhaps "Tivo optimists" would have been better.



> It seems like TiVo is finally on track to release a product that is worthy of an upgrade from the Series 3 platform.


And, as most readers would probably say - about two years too late ... 

However, it appears that most of the changes that will benefit most are going to be because of the 14.9 software, rather than the Elite itself.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Anyone know how many Magnolia stores there are? There are somewhere around 1100 stores, but have no idea how many of them have Magnolia sections.

As for finding out how many Elites sold on the next conference call, Tivo has never broken down hardware sales by model (and, to be honest, even if every BB sold 25 Elites, that's not a significant number of new subs). And I would hope that the Elite has less of a hardware subsidy than the regular Premieres.


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I can't tell whether or not the Elite is selling better than everybody expected but it does appear to be selling better than I expected. It looks to me to be another great TiVo product and great value, best DVR for cable users needing more than 2 tuners but the economy is so bad I wasn't sure the market would respond well.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Since the Elite has been for sale, my guess is they have sold at least 100 times more of the original Premiere. I doubt the Elite will be a major blip on the radar compared to the original Premiere which will continue to sell better. TiVo is counting on the cable companies to make the Elite a real major player.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

When I bought my Premiere at Best Buy on the first day they only had one in the store.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

3 of the 7 closest Best Buy stores to me have stock on the Elite. A total of 12 Best Buy stores within 40 miles of me (as the crow flies -- driving distance might be as far as about 60 miles) have stock.


----------



## geece (Oct 9, 2011)

The stores in the Philly area are also sold out. I know a crappy change to Comcast's DVR software for my area finally drove me to TIVO. When I had enough I started looking and found the elite for just days before the Elite release, saw quad tuners and I was in. I might not be the only one, there were a couple of other people picking up cable cards Mon when I went in for mine.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Only eleven of the forty stores in this area are still showing stock. Although I think only around 25 or 30 of them have Magnolia sections. I know initially I had looked at VA stores for release day but there are alot of Best Buys around the DC area when you add the stores in DC and the one in Maryland near DC. I didn't realize there were so many and most of them have a Magnolia section.

I'm certainly glad I picked an Elite up. I only wish it was available when the Premiere first launched in March 2010.


----------



## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

In the Phoenix area, there are two Best Buys that have stock.

At the store where I bought mine, there is no stock and the guy that rung me up said they had 3 total at their location.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> We are also talking about an item with a $500 price tag. Yeah it isn't going to make any records, but it seems to be selling better than best buy or TiVo thought it would.


Realistically, you're talking about an item with a $1000 price tag after adding in lifetime service. If you go month-to-month @ $20 per then it's going to cost you even more in the long run.

At that price point, it makes an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner much more attractive. The Elite is a product that was introduced far too late. Had it come out 2 or 3 years ago it would have been an instant hit that would have blown away the competition. Now it's mostly just a curiosity to anyone that's experienced an HTPC with cablecard tuners. Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

mr.unnatural said:


> Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


Depends, really. Apple has managed to do very well with that approach for the iPhone. That said, they're only playing catchup with the technical specs and not other aspects. There are also fast food chains that play catchup with placing franchise locations. Broad, sweeping generalizations are never a sound practice for analyzing things in general -- even for armchair analysts.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> At that price point, it makes an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner much more attractive. The Elite is a product that was introduced far too late. Had it come out 2 or 3 years ago it would have been an instant hit that would have blown away the competition. Now it's mostly just a curiosity to anyone that's experienced an HTPC with cablecard tuners. Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


Maybe to you, but not in my household. Would I have preferred if the Elite came out sooner? Yeah I would have bought two rather than the Premiere XLs, but it still kills Media Center and a HTPC in my house.


----------



## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

All the Best Buy stores in my immediate area still have inventory. The store I bought 2 from got in 3 to start, and even it appears to still be available.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Realistically, you're talking about an item with a $1000 price tag after adding in lifetime service. If you go month-to-month @ $20 per then it's going to cost you even more in the long run.
> 
> At that price point, it makes an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner much more attractive. The Elite is a product that was introduced far too late. Had it come out 2 or 3 years ago it would have been an instant hit that would have blown away the competition. Now it's mostly just a curiosity to anyone that's experienced an HTPC with cablecard tuners. Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


Give a listen to this weeks Engadget HD podcast. One of the biggest media center fan boys I know (Ben Drawbaugh) explains whey the TiVo Premiere Elite may be a more compelling product than the Media Center. I believe he sites the iPad/iPhone companion app which is the best 2nd screen app on the market, the ability to remotely schedule & manage via the internet, and the quietness of a TiVo box as an extender versus an Xbox360. I'm not sure media center offers the unified search across linear and OTT television either. I've contemplated building an HTPC to have a better reference point to compare features but right now my $850 TiVo Elite with Lifetime seems like a better product for a somewhat hassle-free home theater experience. Lastly not that it really matters that much I don't think your HTPC is THX Certified.  TiVo discussion starts at 13:20 of the podcast here --> http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/11/engadget-hd-podcast-269-10-11-2011/

~Sam


----------



## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

sbiller said:


> I've contemplated building an HTPC to have a better reference point to compare features but right now my *$850 TiVo Elite with Lifetime *
> 
> ~Sam


$850?


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

El Gabito said:


> $850?


$499 - 10% Best Buy Coupon = $449 + $399 (MSD Lifetime) = $848. That isn't quite accurate because I did pay tax and I went ahead and purchased the 4-year BBY warranty for $74.99 so my actual cost was $449.98 + 74.99 + 399 = $923.97.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

mr.unnatural said:


> At that price point, it makes an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner much more attractive. The Elite is a product that was introduced far too late. Had it come out 2 or 3 years ago it would have been an instant hit that would have blown away the competition. Now it's mostly just a curiosity to anyone that's experienced an HTPC with cablecard tuners. Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


Apples and oranges for the user experience man, so there's little point in bringing this up over and over again. We get it, you love WMC and not Tivo anymore, but there are completely valid reasons to get either one. The Elite is a very compelling choice now, especially if they get the Previews out there at a reasonable price (and no sub, which I doubt will happen).

Or better yet, partner with Roku as Dave Zatz mentioned. Now *that* would be a compelling setup - an Elite and a couple of Rokus. Cheaper than an HTPC with a couple of Xboxes too.


----------



## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

sbiller said:


> Give a listen to this weeks Engadget HD podcast. One of the biggest media center fan boys I know (Ben Drawbaugh) explains whey the TiVo Premiere Elite may be a more compelling product than the Media Center. I believe he sites the iPad/iPhone companion app which is the best 2nd screen app on the market, the ability to remotely schedule & manage via the internet, and the quietness of a TiVo box as an extender versus an Xbox360. I'm not sure media center offers the unified search across linear and OTT television either. I've contemplated building an HTPC to have a better reference point to compare features but right now my $850 TiVo Elite with Lifetime seems like a better product for a somewhat hassle-free home theater experience. Lastly not that it really matters that much I don't think your HTPC is THX Certified.  TiVo discussion starts at 13:20 of the podcast here --> http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/11/engadget-hd-podcast-269-10-11-2011/
> 
> ~Sam


I don't know if I would call Ben a fanboi as I typically find his arguments reasonable, but he's certainly been an MC advocate the past couple years.

I would agree that the Elite is a significant step in the right direction... 
But TiVo still needs to actually release an extender w/o service fees (and to a lesser extent IMO w/o needing another cable card).
Elite + extenders most likely would have prevented me from shifting most of my house's TV use from TiVo to MC.

Remote scheduling/management can be done on MC pretty easily, but it's not quite as bulletproof as with TiVo.
The TiVo ipad app is really good... and it always makes me wonder when the HDUI will actually be finished... ... ...

It's good to see TiVo making progress... I just wish it would come faster and before the cablecards are outdated.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

turbobozz said:


> I don't know if I would call Ben a fanboi as I typically find his arguments reasonable, but he's certainly been an MC advocate the past couple years.
> 
> I would agree that the Elite is a significant step in the right direction...
> But TiVo still needs to actually release an extender w/o service fees (and to a lesser extent IMO w/o needing another cable card).
> ...


It will be interesting to see if the Preview can operate with the CableCARD not being inserted. In that case the Preview will meet your requirements. I'm guessing the Preview will be offered with a very reasonable lifetime -- somewhere in the range of $99 - $199. I would think the subscription rate on it will be around $6.95.

It will be a long time before CableCARDS are outdated... The FCC hasn't even issue a notice of proposed rule-making and the MVPDs are lobbying hard against it. I don't believe AllVid is a slam dunk at this point and even if it is mandated we're talking a couple of years before its available in any meaningful way.


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> Realistically, you're talking about an item with a $1000 price tag after adding in lifetime service. If you go month-to-month @ $20 per then it's going to cost you even more in the long run.
> 
> At that price point, it makes an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner much more attractive. The Elite is a product that was introduced far too late. Had it come out 2 or 3 years ago it would have been an instant hit that would have blown away the competition. Now it's mostly just a curiosity to anyone that's experienced an HTPC with cablecard tuners. Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


Your Ceton HTPC love fest is getting a bit long in the tooth. If I had a dollar for every time I saw you post almost this exact same answer in a thread, I would be able to own Ceton outright.

I tried really hard to like the HTPC alternative, but it really sucks (REALLY) for the vast majority of people given the fact that there are almost no useable extenders out there and the ones that areout there have to share the tuners from the Ceton to watch live TV.

The Elite/Preview combination is IMHO heads and shoulders a better idea. Finally Tivo is thinking the way we have wanted for a long while. Now, if the Preview doesn't see the light of day soon, I may not be able to say that...


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Apples and oranges for the user experience man, so there's little point in bringing this up over and over again. We get it, you love WMC and not Tivo anymore, but there are completely valid reasons to get either one. The Elite is a very compelling choice now, especially if they get the Previews out there at a reasonable price (and no sub, which I doubt will happen).
> 
> Or better yet, partner with Roku as Dave Zatz mentioned. Now *that* would be a compelling setup - an Elite and a couple of Rokus. Cheaper than an HTPC with a couple of Xboxes too.


Who says I don't love Tivo anymore? I still think they're the best standalone DVR available. Tivos and HTPCs both have their virtues as well as faults. It all depends on what you want it to do for you. I just don't like paying outrageous fees to use hardware that I already own.

I recently became an empty-nester so it's down to just me and the wife. She's got zero patience for any technology that requires more than a single button press to operate, so an HTPC setup with extenders was an experiment that failed miserably in my household. God forbid if the input on the TV gets switched because she'll have a total meltdown if she can't figure out how to get it back (which she never does without my help). We've got two TVs in the house for which she is the primary viewer (the main TV is in the finished basement in my home theater setup). One has a cable box and the other has my lifetime Tivo. I'm actually surprised at how accepting she's been of the Tivo so maybe there's hope for her yet.

I find my HTPC to be an absolutely wonderful device and a single source solution for multiple components that take up far too much space. I experience very few of the PC problems that many seem to think are a plague upon every PC in existence. I have found that my Windows 7 Media Center PC is extremely stable and ridiculously easy to use. I don't have to worry about monthly or lifetime fees to watch TV because it costs me nothing above and beyond what I've invested in the hardware and software. The good news is, if it dies I can either fix it or build another one. The even better news is that I never have to deal with Tivo customer service.

For a single room solution, an HTPC with an InfiniTV4 cablecard tuner will cost you less than a Tivo Elite with lifetime service. If you want to go with a whole house distribution setup, you'll need a Tivo in every room that has a TV. Multiple Tivos with lifetime gets expensive pretty quick. With a Media Center PC you can get an X-Box 360 4GB slim model for $200 or less or you can go with one of the older extenders for under $100 apiece on ebay. Frankly, I'd prefer separate Media Center PCs at each TV setup for tuner sharing (I'm not a huge fan of extenders), but it just shows that you have more than one option with a Media Center setup.

I actually have a small Dell Zino HD connected to my family room PC where the Tivo resides. I'm fortunate enough to be on FIOS so none of my channels are flagged as copy once. I can map my main HTPC's drive that contains my recorded shows and view them across the network in the family room. With extenders I can look at the To Do list (or WMC's equivalent) and schedule recordings remotely from any TV.

Media players, such as the Roku, are fine for internet TV and watching videos, but they also tend to be limited in other areas. I've got a couple of the Patriot Box Office players, which are supposed to be a bit better than the Roku boxes, and still find them lacking the features I want.


----------



## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

sbiller said:


> It will be interesting to see if the Preview can operate with the CableCARD not being inserted. In that case the Preview will meet your requirements. I'm guessing the Preview will be offered with a very reasonable lifetime -- somewhere in the range of $99 - $199. I would think the subscription rate on it will be around $6.95.
> 
> It will be a long time before CableCARDS are outdated... The FCC hasn't even issue a notice of proposed rule-making and the MVPDs are lobbying hard against it. I don't believe AllVid is a slam dunk at this point and even if it is mandated we're talking a couple of years before its available in any meaningful way.


The caveat to the Preview as is w/o a cable card is that it would require me to only watch recorded programs on all of the extenders...
Which is a caveat I *could* live with, but I wouldn't want to... I'd probably end up with cable cards in the rooms I normally watch live TV from.

Yes, I actually do watch live TV sometimes... and I would rather the Preview be able to pull a live TV stream from the Elite than require a cable card.

There's still almost no way I would consider paying a subscription fee for an extender... any subscription fee should be rolled into the price.


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

I'm not surprised at all that the Elite is selling well in low quanities. We all knew that they early adopters (beta testers) were gonna jump on it asap. However, I think sales are going to flatline afterwards unless Tivo offers some type of Christmas promo on them. The $499 price is just too high for mainstream and I would think that a large percentage of high-end shoppers wouldn't want to deal with cablecards, TA. & etc. as well compared to easier "cheaper" solutions from the cable\satellite cos.

I think this price line up along with in-store, internet and TV advertising would rake in lots of holiday cash:

Premiere - $99

Premiere XL - $199

Premiere Elite - $399

If it were up to me, I go even more radical and axe the Premiere, price the XL at $99 and the Elite at $299. Also, I would change the service fees to $24.99 monthly and $549.99 for lifetime.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

turbobozz said:


> Yes, I actually do watch live TV sometimes... and I would rather the Preview be able to pull a live TV stream from the Elite than require a cable card.
> 
> There's still almost no way I would consider paying a subscription fee for an extender... any subscription fee should be rolled into the price.


Well that's kind of the point we've been making, that Cablecard in a Preview should be optional, because with an Elite you *should* be able to stream live TV from it.

Not that I think this will happen, even if it should be easy to do, but it goes against Tivo's backroom deals with the cableCos plus it probably won't make them any money.

I agree that a Preview with any kind of a Tivo sub is a loser.


----------



## digitalfirefly (Apr 15, 2005)

mrsean said:


> I'm not surprised at all that the Elite is selling well in low quanities. We all knew that they early adopters (beta testers) were gonna jump on it asap. However, I think sales are going to flatline afterwards unless Tivo offers some type of Christmas promo on them. The $499 price is just too high for mainstream and I would think that a large percentage of high-end shoppers wouldn't want to deal with cablecards, TA. & etc. as well compared to easier "cheaper" solutions from the cable\satellite cos.
> 
> I think this price line up along with in-store, internet and TV advertising would rake in lots of holiday cash:
> 
> ...


As good as Tivo is as a DVR, I think the $20 a month (plus cable card rental) is a turn off to the average consumer.

I work for a small cable company. We rent cable cards for $3. That's $23 a month for 1 Tivo. The DVRs we rent out are $13 a month.

I've tried to get friends and family to get Tivos, but the cost has always been the factor. People will always take a lesser product if they can get a similar or "good enough" experience.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

digitalfirefly said:


> As good as Tivo is as a DVR, I think the $20 a month (plus cable card rental) is a turn off to the average consumer.
> 
> I work for a small cable company. We rent cable cards for $3. That's $23 a month for 1 Tivo. The DVRs we rent out are $13 a month.
> 
> I've tried to get friends and family to get Tivos, but the cost has always been the factor. People will always take a lesser product if they can get a similar or "good enough" experience.


In today's economy, people will always tend to migrate to the best deal they can get for the money unless you're one of the fortunate few to have lots of disposable income. I think Tivo has done more to dissuade customers with their current pricing structure as opposed to attracting new customers. It's one of the things that pushed me to try an HTPC in the first place. High costs for hardware and high service fees have definitely soured me on any future Tivo purchases. The price drop on the Premiere to $99 was a smart move, but $20 a month and $499 for lifetime service turned that silk purse into a sow's ear. When the Ceton cablecard tuner became available, that was pretty much all it took to get me to pull my Tivos from my HT system.

Let's face it, Tivos are pretty much a niche product. Tivo helped bring DVRs into the mainstream, but competition from the cablecos and satellite providers have put Tivo on the back burner for the most part. People mainly want a DVR that simply records the shows they want to watch. The extra bells and whistles that Tivo includes aren't something that's going to attract someone living on a fixed income or a lower middle class income family just trying to make ends meet. If Tivo intends to survive as a company then they need to put out a product that's affordable and attractive to everyone and not just a higher income bracket. They already know who their competition is. Now all they need to do is make their pricing competitive. If the average consumer only has a choice between a DVR that costs them $23 a month or one that only costs $13, the $13 DVR is going to win out most of the time.


----------



## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

digitalfirefly said:


> As good as Tivo is as a DVR, I think the $20 a month (plus cable card rental) is a turn off to the average consumer.
> 
> I work for a small cable company. We rent cable cards for $3. That's $23 a month for 1 Tivo. The DVRs we rent out are $13 a month.
> 
> I've tried to get friends and family to get Tivos, but the cost has always been the factor. People will always take a lesser product if they can get a similar or "good enough" experience.


That's one thing that I've had an issue with being a Tivo customer for 10 years.

If any of my THDs or S3 die off, I either have to go find an early manufacture HD or another S3 so I'm not nailed with a $20/mo service fee on the replacement box.

If I decide I want to replace one of my non-dead units with a Premiere XL or a Premiere Elite, it'll get knocked up from either $6.95 or $12.95 up to $20/month. I do that enough and I'll end up getting some ugly monthly costs.

Tivo should give a break to anyone that's been with them for a long time and allow them to swap out devices for no change in the service fees with the MSD and old pricing plan. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has been touting the devices for years and getting them business. Something that they should reward without sticking it to their loyal customers.

The Elite looks like a great box. Being forced into the $20/month pricing plan for it or the $400/$500 for lifetime service is a painful pill to swallow.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

shrike4242 said:


> Something that they should reward without sticking it to their loyal customers.


Tivo has had special offers for existing customers almost every year, including very nice discounts on lifetime service , sometime transfers to new boxes. And yet many complain that they should be entitled to more. I don't get it.

(I'm a little surprised that anyone who has been a 10 year customer is still on monthly plans )


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26403794-TiVo-RCN-TIVo-Whole-Home-DVR-solution-is-almost-here.~start=20










Sorry if this isn't the right location of this post. I'm starting to get confused by the number of threads we have on the Elite.

~Sam


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> T(I'm a little surprised that anyone who has been a 10 year customer is still on monthly plans )


Disposable income to support monthly != COH for lifetime unless you're willing to wait until you have saved enough for lifetime before buying a TiVo.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

jfh3 said:


> (I'm a little surprised that anyone who has been a 10 year customer is still on monthly plans )


This is something I do not get either... People constantly complaining about the cost of their monthly service - If you choose the most expensive option, it's going to be expensive!

I have lifetime on all three of my TiVo's. I was even able to transfer the lifetime from my aging S2 for a reduced rate...

I will wait for another good deal before I will pull the trigger and replace the OLED device - and by keeping units with lifetime, I have a unit in each room.

TiVo's are expensive, but if you watch for a good deal you can get in at a reasonable cost.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

sbiller said:


> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26403794-TiVo-RCN-TIVo-Whole-Home-DVR-solution-is-almost-here.~start=20
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks good... I am also interested to see if the Q can stream live TV from the Elite. Give it access to Internet services (netfix, HULU, etc...) and allow it to stream both recorded and live TV and TiVo should have a hit on their hands!


----------



## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

All the BBs in my area, San Francisco bay area, have sold out.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

digitalfirefly said:


> As good as Tivo is as a DVR, I think the $20 a month (plus cable card rental) is a turn off to the average consumer.
> 
> I work for a small cable company. We rent cable cards for $3. That's $23 a month for 1 Tivo. The DVRs we rent out are $13 a month.
> 
> I've tried to get friends and family to get Tivos, but the cost has always been the factor. People will always take a lesser product if they can get a similar or "good enough" experience.


What your small cable company need to do is switch to the TiVo Q.


----------



## digitalfirefly (Apr 15, 2005)

Johncv said:


> What your small cable company need to do is switch to the TiVo Q.


Trust me, I've tried to convince them.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> At that price point, it makes an HTPC with a Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner much more attractive. The Elite is a product that was introduced far too late. Had it come out 2 or 3 years ago it would have been an instant hit that would have blown away the competition. Now it's mostly just a curiosity to anyone that's experienced an HTPC with cablecard tuners. Playing catchup is never a sound business practice.


I haven't listened to the latest Engadget HD podcast, but the co-host does use Windows Media Center and talks about it all the time. If even he is talking about getting a new TiVo, that's fairly impressive. (He seems to like the TiVo UI in general, but also often complains it's "old".)

BTW, I think the Elite is very expensive, and wasn't planning on getting one anytime soon.. But having 1 dead & 1 dying Tivo (even with lifetime subscriptions), it does seem tempting.. though hopefully they'll be a price drop within a year or two. $900 with lifetime is a lot..


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

sbiller said:


> It will be interesting to see if the Preview can operate with the CableCARD not being inserted. In that case the Preview will meet your requirements. I'm guessing the Preview will be offered with a very reasonable lifetime -- somewhere in the range of $99 - $199. I would think the subscription rate on it will be around $6.95.


He said without service fees..


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

shrike4242 said:


> That's one thing that I've had an issue with being a Tivo customer for 10 years.
> 
> If any of my THDs or S3 die off, I either have to go find an early manufacture HD or another S3 so I'm not nailed with a $20/mo service fee on the replacement box.
> 
> If I decide I want to replace one of my non-dead units with a Premiere XL or a Premiere Elite, it'll get knocked up from either $6.95 or $12.95 up to $20/month. I do that enough and I'll end up getting some ugly monthly costs.


Umm, you should've had lifetime on the boxes you already have? ... and you could get lifetime on an Elite?

(I say this even with the caveat that the tivo can die --- and I have one dead + one seemingly dying.. But I realize even the dead S3 was over 4 years.. I intend to try a new power supply at some point.)


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

mattack said:


> I haven't listened to the latest Engadget HD podcast, but the co-host does use Windows Media Center and talks about it all the time. If even he is talking about getting a new TiVo, that's fairly impressive. (He seems to like the TiVo UI in general, but also often complains it's "old".)
> 
> BTW, I think the Elite is very expensive, and wasn't planning on getting one anytime soon.. But having 1 dead & 1 dying Tivo (even with lifetime subscriptions), it does seem tempting.. though hopefully they'll be a price drop within a year or two. $900 with lifetime is a lot..


I've actually always like TiVo, had the original DirecTV HD and the Series3 on day one. I went Media Center when I bought a bigger house and grew tired of managing multiple DVRs.


----------



## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

Media Center is currently the only real whole house DVR available (as apposed to multiple DVRs that can be access from other rooms) but the new DirecTV HR34 with RVU is supposed to be hitting the street about now. Media Center hasn't been updated in a few years and probably won't be, and of course I'm always looking for the next great thing. The Preview+Elite combo might just be it.

TiVo and Media Center's main barrier to the general consumer market is the lack of provider VOD. My mother is as frugal as anyone I know, and has a TiVo and a Comcast DVR. She admits the TiVo is a better DVR and worth the monthly sub, but they leave the Comcast DVR on the main TV because of VOD.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

If TiVo won't send you a review unit, we should be able to convince Sbiller to lend you his Elite to play with lol. I don't know if I could give mine up for a weekend.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

bdraw said:


> TiVo and Media Center's main barrier to the general consumer market is the lack of provider VOD. My mother is as frugal as anyone I know, and has a TiVo and a Comcast DVR. She admits the TiVo is a better DVR and worth the monthly sub, but they leave the Comcast DVR on the main TV because of VOD.


I've never been a fan of VOD, basically because the quality tends to be lacking vs. the original broadcast. I believe VOD is basically streamed content anyway, which I'm also not a fan of for the same reason. I've hardly ever used it even when I had cable boxes so the lack of VOD has never been an issue for me.

If memory serves me, VOD programs I've viewed in the past all contained commercials and there was no way to skip past them. The way I see it, there are basically two main reasons to own a DVR - 1) Record what you want so you can view it on your schedule, not the networks and 2) avoid watching commercials. A typical 60-minute program contains about 18 minutes of commercials on average. That's 18 minutes I'll never get back if I have to spend them watching advertisements for products or services that are either of no use or no interest to me.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

bdraw said:


> Media Center is currently the only real whole house DVR available (as apposed to multiple DVRs that can be access from other rooms) but the new DirecTV HR34 with RVU is supposed to be hitting the street about now. Media Center hasn't been updated in a few years and probably won't be, and of course I'm always looking for the next great thing. The Preview+Elite combo might just be it.


You're forgetting about Myth of course, unless you are talking about whole house DVRs that work with any fascist provider's copy protection rules. Myth works with Cablecard tuners now as long as the content is not protected, and is a decent whole house solution because you can roll your own for everything.

I agree that Previews+Elite would be a great solution assuming we ever see the Previews, and at a fair price.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

mr.unnatural said:


> If memory serves me, VOD programs I've viewed in the past all contained commercials and there was no way to skip past them. The way I see it, there are basically two main reasons to own a DVR - 1) Record what you want so you can view it on your schedule, not the networks and 2) avoid watching commercials. A typical 60-minute program contains about 18 minutes of commercials on average. That's 18 minutes I'll never get back if I have to spend them watching advertisements for products or services that are either of no use or no interest to me.


Comcast OnDemand doesn't have commercials, but others might. The streaming future always sounds good until you realize that it will probably include forced watch of commercials, so I agree that a DVR will be needed for some time to come.

Also agree that OnDemand is mostly a waste of time, because I've already recorded/watched or don't care about the content anyway. There's little point to it if you know how to manage SPs and WLs with the occasional torrent of something you missed, then pyTivo or streambaby.

But as Ben points out, we're not the average user and Tivo has to compete on that basis.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Comcast OnDemand doesn't have commercials, but others might. The streaming future always sounds good until you realize that it will probably include forced watch of commercials, so I agree that a DVR will be needed for some time to come.
> 
> Also agree that OnDemand is mostly a waste of time, because I've already recorded/watched or don't care about the content anyway. There's little point to it if you know how to manage SPs and WLs with the occasional torrent of something you missed, then pyTivo or streambaby.
> 
> But as Ben points out, we're not the average user and Tivo has to compete on that basis.


Premium OnDemand programs like HBO and Showtime don't have commercials, but I'm pretty sure any network programs on FIOS do (or at least they used to). Then again, I haven't used VOD on FIOS in ages so my memory might be a tad rusty.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> You're forgetting about Myth of course, unless you are talking about whole house DVRs that work with any fascist provider's copy protection rules. Myth works with Cablecard tuners now as long as the content is not protected, and is a decent whole house solution because you can roll your own for everything.


so, in other words, it's *not* a decent solution, because it *won't* work with everything... e.g. premium channels, or those unlucky folks with everything copy protected.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Seriously? Of course it's only a decent solution for those with minimal (or no) copy protection, Captain Obvious. That's exactly what I said.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> I've never been a fan of VOD, basically because the quality tends to be lacking vs. the original broadcast. I believe VOD is basically streamed content anyway, which I'm also not a fan of for the same reason. I've hardly ever used it even when I had cable boxes so the lack of VOD has never been an issue for me.
> 
> If memory serves me, VOD programs I've viewed in the past all contained commercials and there was no way to skip past them. The way I see it, there are basically two main reasons to own a DVR - 1) Record what you want so you can view it on your schedule, not the networks and 2) avoid watching commercials. A typical 60-minute program contains about 18 minutes of commercials on average. That's 18 minutes I'll never get back if I have to spend them watching advertisements for products or services that are either of no use or no interest to me.


VOD would be a nice to have for when there's a problem and you miss a show- rare with tivo but not unheard of. The baseball playoffs on fox fouled up the X factor and terra nova- both shows my kids enjoy. The x-factor luckily i was aware early enough to schedule a manual recording for Sunday night. But if we were on vacation or something and hadn't been watching TV for a few days then we'd be beat. Tera nova there is no alternate showing (show might even be canceled- who knows)- so looks like I'll pay 1.99 to amazon for my kids to watch that episode.

Also Vod encompasses PPV. Something that people clearly enjoy otherwise amazon unbox (or whatever they call it) wouldn't exist. We used to use netflix- but now that they decided to ~double there prices we ditched the streaming service and only do the disc plan. If something comes up and we want something "right now" then I'm limited to amazon's PPV offerings. Would be nice to have at comcast's too.

Personally I prefer better quality but to me the story is more important so I dont need the best quality all the time. (maybe blasphemy but how I feel). We pay the extra to netflix for bluray but I Love lucy and the honeymooners stll make me laugh even through they are 4:3 black and white SD. I dont need to find an HD show or a bluray disc to laugh.

So there's pluses for some of us of having VOD available.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Quality aside, one of the main reasons VOD holds no interest for me is because I've probably already seen 99% of the offerings in the VOD listings. If I haven't recorded it on an available channel then there are other sources at my disposal to obtain any program I want to watch. As soon as I heard about the scheduling snafu with Terra Nova and House I was able to download both programs off the internet in full HD in under 10 minutes.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

sbiller said:


> If you've been reading the TCF for the past year or so I think calling most of the readers fans wouldn't be correct! It seems like TiVo is finally on track to release a product that is worthy of an upgrade from the Series 3 platform.


Really? I've been waiting for that. Does it have a fast enough processor to actually USE the newest software?


----------



## deathpulse (Apr 2, 2011)

bareyb said:


> Really? I've been waiting for that. Does it have a fast enough processor to actually USE the newest software?


Adding my 2 cents. I just upgraded from a "modified" 2TB Tivo HD (skipped the regular Premiers) to an Elite. WOW - best upgrade I have ever done. Yes, the processor is fast enough .


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> Seriously? Of course it's only a decent solution for those with minimal (or no) copy protection, Captain Obvious. That's exactly what I said.


I was being "Captain Obvious", because here in the real world, we actually have to live with things like copy protection. Even if most of the 'normal' channels don't have copy protection, many people do like to have premium channels. So MythTV is completely unusable for them.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

deathpulse said:


> Adding my 2 cents. I just upgraded from a "modified" 2TB Tivo HD (skipped the regular Premiers) to an Elite. WOW - best upgrade I have ever done. Yes, the processor is fast enough .


Oh man... The UMF is strong on this one. It's what I've been waiting for, but I figured the Cable Co's would all get it first. Four tuners would absolutely rock. Does that mean you have to split your cable four times? I wonder if my signal could handle that...

ETA: Nope. It looks like you only need a single coax going in.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I can't tell whether or not the Elite is selling better than everybody expected but it does appear to be selling better than I expected. It looks to me to be another great TiVo product and great value, best DVR for cable users needing more than 2 tuners but the economy is so bad I wasn't sure the market would respond well.


Apple is thriving in this economy. If you make a compelling enough product, people will buy it. I'm probably going to be buying two of them. I just hope the good news holds up, I'd love to see those guys get a big win.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Apple is thriving in this economy. If you make a compelling enough product, people will buy it. I'm probably going to be buying two of them. I just hope the good news holds up, I'd love to see those guys get a big win.


Honestly, I doubt it will matter how many Elites TiVo sells. At the current price point, they are just catering to the high end of the market which TiVo knows is small. They are betting on selling this box to the cable cos to gain real market share.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

rainwater said:


> Honestly, I doubt it will matter how many Elites TiVo sells. At the current price point, they are just catering to the high end of the market which TiVo knows is small. They are betting on selling this box to the cable cos to gain real market share.


Works for me. I'm just glad they finally built a box that I want to buy. I don't care how I get it. Hell, if Comcast gets them, I'll happily pay rent to them to get it and have PPV too. I'm all over this thing one way or another. Something tells me the Comcast model won't have a 2 TB drive though...


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bareyb said:


> Works for me. I'm just glad they finally built a box that I want to buy. I don't care how I get it. Hell, if Comcast gets them, I'll happily pay rent to them to get it and have PPV too. I'm all over this thing one way or another. Something tells me the Comcast model won't have a 2 TB drive though...


Comcast is supposed to offer VOD(no idea about PPV) on the TiVo Premiere boxes sometime. It's been announced the question is when.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Comcast is supposed to offer VOD(no idea about PPV) on the TiVo Premiere boxes sometime. It's been announced the question is when.


Cox made the same deal, but we heard nothing from them.


----------



## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

I was really excited about this model and was all ready to dive in and then I read that you cant get "over the air" programming with it. Is this correct, or am I reading it wrong?


----------



## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

MeInDallas said:


> I was really excited about this model and was all ready to dive in and then I read that you cant get "over the air" programming with it. Is this correct, or am I reading it wrong?


You read correctly. There's no over the air capability.


----------



## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

digitalfirefly said:


> As good as Tivo is as a DVR, I think the $20 a month (plus cable card rental) is a turn off to the average consumer.
> 
> I work for a small cable company. We rent cable cards for $3. That's $23 a month for 1 Tivo. The DVRs we rent out are $13 a month.
> 
> I've tried to get friends and family to get Tivos, but the cost has always been the factor. People will always take a lesser product if they can get a similar or "good enough" experience.


Yes, and no. This only goes so far. Once they see and use an actual TiVo, or sometimes once they see their crap-DVR alternative, the $10 a month seems reasonable and they jump at it. Some, anyway.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Comcast is supposed to offer VOD(no idea about PPV) on the TiVo Premiere boxes sometime. It's been announced the question is when.


Unfortunately this was announced a long time ago, and very little sees the light of day now. Maybe it will come after the 14.9 software update.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

mr.unnatural said:


> Quality aside, one of the main reasons VOD holds no interest for me is because I've probably already seen 99% of the offerings in the VOD listings. If I haven't recorded it on an available channel then there are other sources at my disposal to obtain any program I want to watch. As soon as I heard about the scheduling snafu with Terra Nova and House I was able to download both programs off the internet in full HD in under 10 minutes.


Were those downloads legal? Personally, I don't want to do something like that just to watch TV. TV isn't worth the risk.


----------



## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

shwru980r said:


> Were those downloads legal? Personally, I don't want to do something like that just to watch TV. TV isn't worth the risk.


Terra Nova is available on iTunes


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> Were those downloads legal? Personally, I don't want to do something like that just to watch TV. TV isn't worth the risk.


 They were broadcast for free OTA, I don't think Fox will be knocking on his door (or yours).


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> Were those downloads legal? Personally, I don't want to do something like that just to watch TV. TV isn't worth the risk.


I won't debate the legality of the downloads. The point I was trying to make was that there are other means available to acquire TV programs that you may not have been able to record for one reason or another.

FYI - Any BT download using a public tracker exposes you to your ISP as to potential copyright infringements. I had downloaded and shared a few episodes of Friday Night Lights back when it was available only via DirecTV (NBC aired reruns duing the summer). I received a nasty-gram from Verizon that they detected copyrighted material being shared from my IP address. I assume that DirecTV had issued an all-points bulletin to internet providers indicating that they would not tolerate any proprietary material they owned from being pirated and distributed. I got the impression that downloading it wasn't the main issue, but distributing it via a peer-to-peer network was. They just want you to sign up for DirecTV to see the program.

I was warned about the situation but was also informed that the info would not be passed along to the copyright holder. The gist of the e-mail was for me to cease and desist, which I did. I just waited for the show to air during the summer so I could record it normally. I have never heard any more about it, either from Verizon or DirecTV (this occurred a couple of years ago when FNL was initially switched over to DirecTV). Since then I have been able to sign up with a private tracker so the content of any downloaded material is hidden from my ISP. If I suspect that any show I download may attract unwanted attention, I simply remove it from my torrent library so it doesn't get shared.

I really don't think that the networks are as concerneed about TV shows being downloaded and shared, except under certain circumstances. Most shows are avilable for viewing freely on Hulu, the network's own websites, and other sources. The main thing they are concerened about is that you're getting to see the program without commercials, which most DVR users do anyway.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

mr.unnatural said:


> I got the impression that downloading it wasn't the main issue, but distributing it via a peer-to-peer network was.


Right, but I think as soon as a torrent is downloaded, you start sharing it until you manually remove the file.



mr.unnatural said:


> Most shows are avilable for viewing freely on Hulu, the network's own websites, and other sources.


Right, but the free version of HULU is blocked from most set top boxes.

To me it's not worth the risk of downloading it. I'd just wait for a rerun or try to watch it on HULU.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Looks like bestbuy.com and one of the Tampa stores finally got restock.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> Right, but I think as soon as a torrent is downloaded, you start sharing it until you manually remove the file.


To stop sharing you stop the torrent and then delete it from your library as well as the original torrent file. The downloaded program is unaffected and does not need to be deleted. Once you've purged the torrent file you've severed the peer-to-peer sharing connection.



> Right, but the free version of HULU is blocked from most set top boxes.


I can see Hulu just fine via my HTPC. The thing is, I really have no interest in using Hulu or any other streaming service.



shwru980r said:


> To me it's not worth the risk of downloading it. I'd just wait for a rerun or try to watch it on HULU.


Paranoid much?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

For me it's not about being paranoid- i just want it to work and work simply from the tivo remote. I dont want to have to install 5 peices of software on my pc. I dont want to learn what is legal or not and then figure out how to sign up for a private tracker or whatever so i can avoid the authorities- and then pay attention to the setup and find out when that work around gets compromised and figure out what next steps I need to take. 

I suspect I'm like many that:
I just want to point at the tivo and watch the show I want. If that involves me paying 1.99 or 2.99 or 3.99 every now and again then so be it. As a regular thing the tivo works great to get me tera nova or whatever- but sometimes something happens and I just want to simply be able to deal with it with my tivo remote.

I'm the guy that tivo is trying to sell the "one box" to. I just want my tivo to get me whatever i want.

I have the sony bluray player with googletv- so sometimes that is an option for me too. But frankly it's a pita to go get that remote and switch inputs and use that to do what I want. I just wish tivo would work as "one box"

(no need to have the discussion in the umpteen other threads about how tivo doesn't do that, there are better options, etc. Just clarifying that's what I want and why therefore VOD has value to ME. To each his own.)


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The Elite Premiere works great for watching something like Tera Nova. Just fire up Hulu+ and the episodes are right there. Between Hulu+, Netflix, and Amazon(I guess Blockbuster could be included too) there is access to alot of content in addition to what the TiVo might record on it's own.

Even though other devices might have those same service, the TiVo typically does a better job with FF, REW, etc especially when using the TiVo remote. And the BT TiVo remote is even better.


----------



## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

The only BB store within 50 miles to have the Elite is Nashua NH. They did not have any yesterday so maybe the supply line is opening up a bit. Glad I got mine on day one.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> For me it's not about being paranoid- i just want it to work and work simply from the tivo remote. I dont want to have to install 5 peices of software on my pc. I dont want to learn what is legal or not and then figure out how to sign up for a private tracker or whatever so i can avoid the authorities- and then pay attention to the setup and find out when that work around gets compromised and figure out what next steps I need to take.


I perform all of my downloads on my main PC. Once the download is complete, I'll extract the archive, if necessary, and transfer the file over to my server. From there I can access it via my HTPC using my remote the same way you do with your Tivo. The thing is, I don't mind the few extra steps involved as they are quite minimal at best.

The torrent site I frequented went private after I was already a member so there was nothing extra I had to do. With private trackers I have no worries about what is legal and what is not. It's all the same stuff you can see via Hulu+ and the other sources you mentioned.

FYI - Terra Nova is currently on the bubble and faces the real possibility it could be canceled before the end of the year. There have been no orders for any new episodes beyond the initial 13 that have already been produced. Several new shows have already been axed and several others may not be too far behind.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

mr.unnatural said:


> FYI - Terra Nova is currently on the bubble and faces the real possibility it could be canceled before the end of the year. There have been no orders for any new episodes beyond the initial 13 that have already been produced. Several new shows have already been axed and several others may not be too far behind.


The ratings haven't been great but haven't been cancel-worthy either. They drew a 3.1, 3.1, 2.5, & 2.8 so far this season.

They haven't picked up the back 9 because they don't have time given the extra time needed for the special effects, which they announced before the first episode even aired.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Before the Baseball interruption, Terra Nova ratings were about equal to the average of all scripted shows on Fox. That doesn't sound great, but it doesn't sound bad either. it sounds, well, average.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

HenryFarpolo said:


> The only BB store within 50 miles to have the Elite is Nashua NH. They did not have any yesterday so maybe the supply line is opening up a bit. Glad I got mine on day one.


BB.com has gone out of stock at least twice, but looks like they have stock again. It looks like two of my local Magnolias got some back in.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> The gist of the e-mail was for me to cease and desist, which I did. I just waited for the show to air during the summer so I could record it normally.


The ISP's have never taken these emails seriously. You know how you can be sure? What email address did they send it to? The one they provided you with? How many people actually use their ISP email? Some do, many don't. I don't even know what my email address is that my ISP provided me. I probably have a couple hundred of these emails from them.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Before the Baseball interruption, Terra Nova ratings were about equal to the average of all scripted shows on Fox. That doesn't sound great, but it doesn't sound bad either. it sounds, well, average.


I was just reporting what I read about the new Fall shows in an article on the MSN website. Several new shows, Including The Playboy Club and How to be a Gentleman, have already been canceled. Several other shows, like Pan Am, Terra Nova, Ringer, and a few others, are reportedly on the bubble and may not make it past the number of episodes that have already been produced.

These days the networks rarely order the production of more than about a half-season's worth of episodes for any new show. If the ratings don't meet expectations within a short period, the show gets canceled. Networks don't hesitate to pull the trigger on a show that doesn't provide minimum ratings. It's a darn shame because there are some good shows that get yanked before word of mouth gets around to pull in new viewers. Shows like M*A*S*H or Seinfeld would have never survived their first season if these shows debuted today instead of when they did. Networks could care less about quality TV. Their only concern is the bottom line.


----------

