# Can't Edit HD files from Tivo Premier



## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

I was wondering if anyone else is having problems editing HD files transferred from a Tivo Premier. I am downloading the files using Tivo Desktop 2.8. I have tried converting them into mpeg files using both eTivo DSD and tivodecode (yes I have my MACs set corrrectly). Everything seems to be fine up until the point at which I try to edit the stripped mpeg files (to remove commercials). Adobe Premier won't even load the mpeg files created in this way. Corel VideoStudio Pro X3 crashes every time I try to edit the mpeg files as does the video editor that comes with Roxio Creator 2010 Pro. I am therefore assuming that there is something odd about the HD .tivo files transferred from the premier that causes issues when trying to run them through DSD or tivodecode. I tried transferring, stripping, and editing standard resolution files from the premier and had no problems. It's just the HD stuff that I can't strip and edit. And no, I am not trying to edit any copy protected HD files which Tivo desktop won't download anyway. I just want non-protected mpegs with no commercials in them. Has anyone had any success transferring, converting to mpeg, and editing HD files from a premier? If so, could you share how you did this and which tools you used? TIA.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

RockyF said:


> ...Has anyone had any success transferring, converting to mpeg, and editing HD files from a premier? If so, could you share how you did this and which tools you used? TIA.


I've had success coupling kmttg and VideoReDo. Lots of info in the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I use VideoReDo myself. You should at least check out the free trial. Just be sure and get a trial key for full functionality.
It works directly with .tivo files, so there's no need to convert.
If all you're doing is removing commercials, this is quick and easy, and some of the fuctions can be automated with 3rd party software.
As orangeboy said, lots of info in the other sub-forum.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I've been using VideoReDo for years with my recordings from my TiVos. I've never had any issue with VideoReDo and the TiVo recordings as long as the box I'm using VideoReDO on also is running TiVo Desktop with the proper Media Access Key.


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the suggestion. I downloaded and have a trial key for VideoReDo. Great program which I am will likely purchase. I am able to massage the files to get them into an editable form, but I am noticing some peculiarities and I am not sure whether it has something to do with my network or something Tivo is doing. 

While editing some of the files in VideoReDo I keep getting a "video resolution changed" error which makes me think Tivo is doing something funky to the HD video files on the Premiere, precisely to keep people from being able to edit the files. I have yet to see this problem in any standard definition video files, including those transfered from my Premiere (I also have an older series 2). When this happens, VideoReDo's "stream fix" function makes the file editable, but it loses some of the resolution in the process (i.e., it no longer seems to be a 1080p file).

I am going to search the other forums to see if I can find anything out about this. I am not ruling out that my wireless network is somehow corrupting the HD files when I transfer them, but I think this seems unlikely because the standard def files are always OK. This why I still suspect Tivo trickery here on HD content. Gotta do some more digging.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

RockyF said:


> While editing some of the files in VideoReDo I keep getting a "video resolution changed" error which makes me think Tivo is doing something funky to the HD video files on the Premiere, precisely to keep people from being able to edit the files.


This is not done by the DVR, but by the cable company. They insert commercials that are not the same resolution as the main show knowing that the TV will handle the change just fine. All the DVR does is record the stream sent down the cable, it does not modify it in any way.

I don't believe it is done to prevent editing, but simply to quickly and cheaply insert commercials without needing to change their resolution to match that of the show. Since they don't intend for the end product to edited, but only viewed, they do not go out of their way to preserve editability. That is not the same is intentionally rendering the result difficult to edit, but I suspect that the cable company is not upset by that fact.

Quick Stream Fix is your friend here. QSF does not change the resolution, but it may correct errors in the resolution flags in the file. Changing resolution would require re-encoding which is VERY time consuming.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Yes, try the quickstream fix tool.
Open VideoReDo, click 'Tools' -> 'Quickstream fix'.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

RockyF said:


> While editing some of the files in VideoReDo I keep getting a "video resolution changed" error which makes me think Tivo is doing something funky to the HD video files on the Premiere


To fix that run the files through the Quick Stream Fix tool and check the "Enable Filters" box. This will prompt you with a drop down containing all the different video resolutions available in the file. Select the one that matches the main video and then hit OK. You will then need to reopen the fixed file and edit out any remaining commercials. VideoReDo can not handle videos with multiple resolutions, so this work around is the only option for editing these files.

Dan


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

The information you all posted has been immensely helpful. Thanks a lot.


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

Well, using VideoReDo, I am able to fix the mpeg stream video resolution issues and edit the files. I was still wondering why I was getting a stepped down resolution (720p) when I thought I was recording in full 1080p. It turns out that the premiere is recording in 720p instead of 1080p. Why? Because I have it hooked up to a small flat screen that only supports up to 720p and because I am using an HDMI cable, which apparently uses 2-way communications unlike analog component cabling. This causes the resolution limitations of the TV to be sent to the premiere which adjusts it recording limitations to match. 

In order to get the premier to record in full 1080p, I will have to either get a 1080p TV to hook up to the premier or try running the output through component cables so it doesn't know the TV resolution (I assume the latter will work). 

I suppose I will stick with the 720p for now. Starting December 31. 2010, manufacturers will no longer be able to sell video devices capable of outputting decrypted HD content on analog (component) outputs. All analog outputs will be limited to SD resolution even if the box is capable of full HD. I'm betting Tivo will end up enforcing this via firmware so switching to a component cabling might actually prevent the box from recording in HD at all. Maybe not, but it looks like the best solution is an upgraded TV. 

Sheesh. I just wanted to record and archive a few shows in full HD and it's like building Mount Rushmore.


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## eDbolson (Oct 25, 2001)

The TiVo just records what is sent over the air or on the cable. If you look at your programs on the TiVo, some channels will be recorded in 720p and some in 1080i. Both are HD and both are superb. You will not get ANY 1080p broadcasts - that is not part of the broadcast standard.

When US HD was first being standardized, there were big debates about whether 720p or 1080i provided a better picture or experience. The data rates are about the same (720p is 60 progressive frames of 720 lines per second, and 1080i is 50 interlaced fields of 512 lines per second, with more pixels horizontally). 1080i gives you more pixels and so can show most video without rapid motion in astounding detail compared to the old 480i standard def. 720p also has amazing detail and motion is supposedly clearer.

But the human eye really can't see the difference, especially with the fancy processing on new TV's where they refresh the screen even more often than 60 per second and do in-betweening.

All I'm trying to say is that what you are proposing to do won't work and switching from HDMI to component will not help you in the slightest (and some will tell you HDMI will give you a better picture since there will not be extra digital to analog to digital conversions).



RockyF said:


> I was still wondering why I was getting a stepped down resolution (720p) when I thought I was recording in full 1080p. It turns out that the premiere is recording in 720p instead of 1080p. Why? Because I have it hooked up to a small flat screen that only supports up to 720p and because I am using an HDMI cable, which apparently uses 2-way communications unlike analog component cabling. ...
> In order to get the premier to record in full 1080p, I will have to either get a 1080p TV to hook up to the premier or try running the output through component cables so it doesn't know the TV resolution (I assume the latter will work).
> 
> I suppose I will stick with the 720p for now. Starting December 31. 2010, manufacturers will no longer be able to sell video devices capable of outputting decrypted HD content on analog (component) outputs. All analog outputs will be limited to SD resolution even if the box is capable of full HD. I'm betting Tivo will end up enforcing this via firmware so switching to a component cabling might actually prevent the box from recording in HD at all. Maybe not, but it looks like the best solution is an upgraded TV.
> ...


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

eDbolson said:


> The TiVo just records what is sent over the air or on the cable. If you look at your programs on the TiVo, some channels will be recorded in 720p and some in 1080i. Both are HD and both are superb. You will not get ANY 1080p broadcasts - that is not part of the broadcast standard.


You are right, I forgot that my cable company doesn't broadcast 1080p, only 1080i, but many of their high def channels, particularly the movies channels, are broadcast in 1080i not 720p. I just can't record in 1080i because of the 2-way communication on the HMDI. And BTW, there are some companies such as direct TV that DO deliver some content (on demand movies) in full 1080p. There is nothing in any broadcast standard that prohibits 1080p. It's an issue of cost and the fact that the television and cable stations that originate content are not yet broadcasting in 1080p because it takes up too much bandwith.

In any event, I have looked at the output from my editing and at 720p you are correct that the picture is quite good. I am happy with it so I don't think I need to do any more. I wouldn't say I can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080, however. On the large screen (57") TV I have my media computer attached to I can definitely tell the difference as attested to by watching a BluRay movie at full 1080p. It is a noticeably more stunning image even when there isn't much motion. Maybe on a smaller screen that wouldn't be true.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

RockyF said:


> ........Sheesh. I just wanted to record and archive a few shows in full HD and it's like building Mount Rushmore.


LOL. Yes it takes a hearty breed to process TiVo videos! 

BTW, TVAP (link in signature) can automate VideoReDo processing, including QSF'ing with dimension filtering. I think kmttg can also do this.


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

dlfl said:


> BTW, TVAP (link in signature) can automate VideoReDo processing, including QSF'ing with dimension filtering. I think kmttg can also do this.


Thanks! I downloaded TVAP and will give it a try. Another great tip. VideoReDo looks like a keeper. Adobe Premiere is a Cadillac of a program (really more for fancy homegrown productions) and Video Studio Pro X3 is a moderately well featured and very easy to use program for doing quick video work, but VideoReDo seems to excel at doing the kinds of quick fixes and edits of downloaded videos that I want for my Tivo. Thanks for everyone for turning me on to this great program. Gonna send a nice note to the developers.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

RockyF said:


> Thanks! I downloaded TVAP and will give it a try. Another great tip. VideoReDo looks like a keeper. Adobe Premiere is a Cadillac of a program (really more for fancy homegrown productions) and Video Studio Pro X3 is a moderately well featured and very easy to use program for doing quick video work, but VideoReDo seems to excel at doing the kinds of quick fixes and edits of downloaded videos that I want for my Tivo. Thanks for everyone for turning me on to this great program. Gonna send a nice note to the developers.


My son has Adobe Premiere and it sounds like a Cadillac from what he says.

If you have problems or questions with TVAP, please post in the TVAP thread linked in signature. Also, TiVoPlaylist is a good free program for transfering files from your TiVo.


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## eDbolson (Oct 25, 2001)

> I just can't record in 1080i because of the 2-way communication on the HMDI


Perhaps I'm the crazy one, but I still don't believe the TiVo records 1080i source as 720p just because of the HDMI connection to the TV. It is true that TiVo will convert 1080i to 720p (or your TV will) for display depending on settings. My TiVo is connected to a 1080i TV and records both 720p and 1080i programs, which I can download without change, even though I have fixed 1080i output from the TiVo (which converts better than my TV, IMO).

I did not realize DirectTV supported 1080p - however, 1080p is not a broadcast standard, and I don't believe you will get any TV content in 1080p from them, except for VOD or PPV movies, I think.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

eDbolson said:


> Perhaps I'm the crazy one, but I still don't believe the TiVo records 1080i source as 720p just because of the HDMI connection to the TV. It is true that TiVo will convert 1080i to 720p (or your TV will) for display depending on settings. My TiVo is connected to a 1080i TV and records both 720p and 1080i programs, which I can download without change, even though I have fixed 1080i output from the TiVo (which converts better than my TV, IMO).
> 
> I did not realize DirectTV supported 1080p - however, 1080p is not a broadcast standard, and I don't believe you will get any TV content in 1080p from them, except for VOD or PPV movies, I think.


You are correct. The TiVo will record what it's sent. Of the major networks, CBS broadcasts 720p while I believe the other networks are all 1080i.

I believe DirectTV's 1080p is limited to PPV/VOD as well.

Scott


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

eDbolson said:


> Perhaps I'm the crazy one, but I still don't believe the TiVo records 1080i source as 720p just because of the HDMI connection to the TV. It is true that TiVo will convert 1080i to 720p (or your TV will) for display depending on settings. My TiVo is connected to a 1080i TV and records both 720p and 1080i programs, which I can download without change, even though I have fixed 1080i output from the TiVo (which converts better than my TV, IMO).
> 
> I did not realize DirectTV supported 1080p - however, 1080p is not a broadcast standard, and I don't believe you will get any TV content in 1080p from them, except for VOD or PPV movies, I think.


Unlike analog cables, HDMI uses two way communication. Hence the TIVO can determine the resolutions supported by your TV and limit its recording options accordingly.

Now I did find something new out. There is a setting in TIVO settings under Video/Video Output in which you can set the modes you want to record in. It turns out that I can record 1080i by simply checking the appropriate box because my TV does indeed support 1080i even though it displays as 720p (I checked the TV manual which led me to do this digging). The box defaulted to 720p because this is what it picked up as the maximum native resolution of my TV. I confirmed this with TIVO tech support. I suppose the TIVO box is trying to be smart and not record more than is needed, i.e., won't display in native mode. The fact that you may want to download the recording doesn't seem to factor into this logic. The premiere even had a message saying my TV did not support 1080p, hence it was not an available option. Yes, I know no one is broadcasting in 1080p, but the TIVO does itself support 1080p.

As for 1080p content, I am guessing that some of the on-demand services like Netflix and Amazon may soon offer 1080p which is why TIVO supports it. I read that, in fact, Netflix will start delivering 1080p 5:1 this year. At this time, however, only Direct TV offers 1080p and only for their on-demand content.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Amazon already has 1080P content. All the Doctor Who shows I've been renting this season on my Premeires have been in 1080P24.

And as far as those resolutions settings, they have nothing to do with what the TiVo records. It is only the resolution the TiVo outputs. If the original content is 1080i, that is what is recorded, if it's 720P, that is what is recorded. The TiVo is just recording the didgital stream. and if you have all the output resolutions checked, like I do. then the TiVo will output in the original resolution of the recording. If you only have 1080i checked, then the TiVo will scale everything to 1080i for output.


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> Amazon already has 1080P content. All the Doctor Who shows I've been renting this season on my Premeires have been in 1080P24.
> 
> And as far as those resolutions settings, they have nothing to do with what the TiVo records. It is only the resolution the TiVo outputs. If the original content is 1080i, that is what is recorded, if it's 720P, that is what is recorded. The TiVo is just recording the didgital stream. and if you have all the output resolutions checked, like I do. then the TiVo will output in the original resolution of the recording. If you only have 1080i checked, then the TiVo will scale everything to 1080i for output.


OK, that makes sense give where the settings were in the menus, but SOMETHING is going on here. I am absolutely sure that some of the content broadcast by my cable provider is in 1080i. For example, both the Discovery Channel and the Science Channel broadcast in 1080i. I checked both Discovery's web site and my cable provider on this. In fact, Discovery's web site says all of their HD content is delivered in 1080i 5:1. Yet, when I downloaded and edited recorded Discovery channel files from my premier, they ended up as 720p. If they are being broadcast in 1080i, why are they being recorded in 720p?

I'm starting to lose my mind over this. It's not so much that I can't live with the 720p. Now it's a matter of principle. I want to know what the heck is going on.

P.S. I don't think Amazon is doing 1080p yet. They deliver HD 720p just like Netflix, but Tivo can download them as 1080i. No 1080p that I saw. Their web site seems to confirm it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/ontv/faq#whatQuality


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RockyF said:


> OK, that makes sense give where the settings were in the menus, but SOMETHING is going on here. I am absolutely sure that some of the content broadcast by my cable provider is in 1080i. For example, both the Discovery Channel and the Science Channel broadcast in 1080i. I checked both Discovery's web site and my cable provider on this. In fact, Discovery's web site says all of their HD content is delivered in 1080i 5:1. Yet, when I downloaded and edited recorded Discovery channel files from my premier, they ended up as 720p. If they are being broadcast in 1080i, why are they being recorded in 720p?
> 
> I'm starting to lose my mind over this. It's not so much that I can't live with the 720p. Now it's a matter of principle. I want to know what the heck is going on.
> 
> ...


Amazon definitely has had 1080P24 for a few months. In the Spring when I rented an episode of Mercy, it was in 1080P24. That was the first title I noticed in 1080P24.The premiere will only pass through 1080P24 it will not scale anything to 1080P24. And my external scaler tells me a bunch of info about the signal it is receiving including the resolution and framerate and it shows 1080p24.

I did just double check and I was wrong about Dr. Who. That is 1080i. But I also checked other titles and they were definitely in 1080P24.
Amazon downloaded shows V, In Plain Sight, Mercy, and Rubicon were all in 1080P24 that i had in my Amazon folder.


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

I use VideoReDo as well. I can't claim to understand all of the features, but it's wonderful software. I use it all the time and have talked three different friends into buying it. I see that one of the developers for it has posted in the thread and I just wanted to offer my thanks for your wonderful product.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

mumpower said:


> I use VideoReDo as well. I can't claim to understand all of the features, but it's wonderful software. I use it all the time and have talked three different friends into buying it. I see that one of the developers for it has posted in the thread and I just wanted to offer my thanks for your wonderful product.


While I'm sure he appreciates your kind words, I think you thanked him when you paid the $$$ 

Disclosure: I use it all the time and also love it.


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

rocko said:


> While I'm sure he appreciates your kind words, I think you thanked him when you paid the $$$
> 
> Disclosure: I use it all the time and also love it.


I have to thank everyone here for recommending this tool. I use it regularly now for the buik of my video editing since I mostly just archive shows and VideoReDo is perfect for fixing the streams and taking out the commercials. I have been encoding using Microsoft Expression and getting beautiful WMV results which work perfectly with Windows Media Center. Took me a while to get the encoder settings dialed in, but the A/B feature of Expression really helped.

Also, as an update, I my TIVO Premiere now seems to be recording in 1080i. I want to do a test to see if changing the ouput setting to accommodate 1080i had anything to do with this. I will update once I know as I think this might be useful information to others.

Thanks again everyone for you help.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

RockyF said:


> I have to thank everyone here for recommending this tool. I use it regularly now for the buik of my video editing since I mostly just archive shows and VideoReDo is perfect for fixing the streams and taking out the commercials. I have been encoding using Microsoft Expression and getting beautiful WMV results which work perfectly with Windows Media Center. Took me a while to get the encoder settings dialed in, but the A/B feature of Expression really helped.
> 
> Also, as an update, I my TIVO Premiere now seems to be recording in 1080i. I want to do a test to see if changing the ouput setting to accommodate 1080i had anything to do with this. I will update once I know as I think this might be useful information to others.
> 
> Thanks again everyone for you help.


You might want to consider encoding using H.264/AC3/mp4. With that combination, you would be able to retain 5.1 audio (if available), and be able to transfer the video back to the TiVo without transcoding either through the use of pyTivo or a bit more convoluted solution, Custom RSS feeds, or stream the file back with Stream Baby, Stream!. The files you are encoding _may_ have the same attributes for native transfer/streaming, but with a limitation of having only 2 channels audio. Take a look at http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility for more details.


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> You might want to consider encoding using H.264/AC3/mp4. With that combination, you would be able to retain 5.1 audio (if available), and be able to transfer the video back to the TiVo without transcoding either through the use of pyTivo or a bit more convoluted solution, Custom RSS feeds, or stream the file back with Stream Baby, Stream!. The files you are encoding _may_ have the same attributes for native transfer/streaming, but with a limitation of having only 2 channels audio. Take a look at http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility for more details.


Actually, the VC-1 encoder I am using supports 5:1. I am encoding my 1080i/5:1 files as 1080p/5:1 and the output is oustanding. I am using 1 pass, 95% quality-based VBR encoding with Windows Audio Advanced profile (for 5:1). It takes time to encode, but I have a box dedicated to archiving, encoding, and watching shows through Windows Media Center (WMC) and I kick off any encoding I have to do before I go to bed. The reason I choice WMV/VC-1 is because of compatibility with WMC. H.264 is a nice encoding format, but I will lose some compatibility with WMC including the ability to fast foward, rewind, and automatically generate thumbnails (I don't know about Windows 7, but this definitely true for Vista Ultimate/WMC). VC-1 is a great encoder and supports a full suite of video and audio resolutions. The Expression Pro encoding suite from Microsoft is also the best encoding tool out there for WMV and will generate just about anything at just about any quality level including multiple pass CBR & VBR encodings. I have a quick and dirty little WMV to MP4 encoder that I can use if I want to download anything to an iPod, but for cataloging and watching on a big screen, there really isn't anything better out there right now than WMC, IMHO, which drives me to use WMV encoding.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

RockyF said:


> Actually, the VC-1 encoder I am using supports 5:1.


Yes, but the TiVo doesn't (using VC-1).



RockyF said:


> I have a quick and dirty little WMV to MP4 encoder that I can use if I want to download anything to an iPod, but for cataloging and watching on a big screen, there really isn't anything better out there right now than WMC, IMHO, which drives me to use WMV encoding.


If you have WMC attached to the big screen, why have a TiVo? Is it a CableCARD thing?


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## RockyF (Apr 13, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Yes, but the TiVo doesn't (using VC-1).


I seldom transfer back to the TIVO to watch. My TIVO is hooked up to a separate small screen in my home office. I watch it when I am working late or over the weekends, but I mostly use it to record shows I want to download and save, something my cable vendor will likely never allow through their DVR because of licensing issues. I archive the shows onto USB drives via my server. That way I can watch them on any computer/portable/TV in the house, hence my attachment to WMC. I guess my setup is a little unusual as I don't use TIVO as my main DVR (I use the cable company box). The only issue with all this is that I cannot archive the vast majority of HD movies because of DRM (TIVO itself won't allow this). I do have some 720x480 (DVD quality) movies archived, mostly older classics, but most of what I archive are documentaries and specials which I can download and save in HD until they DRM those into oblivion as well.


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