# TiVo Series1 DVRs will not be compatible with new guide data!



## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

We received an note from TiVo that we wanted to pass on as it would, could, affect some of our long time TiVo owners here on the site.

TiVo Series1 DVRs, many of which were introduced in 1999, will not be compatible with the new, upgraded guide data. All other TiVo DVRs will work with the new data. The final guide update will be sent to S1 DVRs on September 15th. After that, the functionality of these DVRs will be severely deprecated.

While S1s will still be able to play shows theyve already recorded, all new recordings will have to be set manually. TiVo says they want to reassure TiVo users this decommissioning will only apply to Series1 DVRs.

TiVo is reaching out to all active S1 owners (in multiple ways) and offering what they feel is an acceptable make-good. We happened to get a copy of this email from a screen shot, so please see attached jpg so you know what may be coming.

TiVo also offered us, the TiVo Community Forum members, to do another Ask Me Anything with Ira Bahr, Chief Marketing Officer, for this Thursday! We did this before with great success, however the only issue we had were all the questions that went on and on. (We should have known. )

So with that knowledge we would like you to submit questions below and we will select what we feel are some of the more important ones along with some randomly chosen ones, for a total of 20 total questions to be answered. This can be around the S1 or anything else TiVo related.

Please note, this will not be an ongoing conversation, but answers, without followups, to the questions selected to be answered. A new thread will be started with the question repeated and then answered.

Questions must be asked by 3PM ET 8/17 to make the deadline.

We thank TiVo and Ira in advance for this opportunity.

JPG Image of Email ---> http://TiVoCommunity.com/TiVo_Series1_DVR_Communication.jpg


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think this is a question at the top of a lot of people's list...

Will there be a 6 tuner "Bolt Pro" released this year?


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

Can Tivo Series 1 owners like me who bought it with lifetime subscription in 1999 opt to transfer lifetime service to a Series 2 machine instead of the $75 credit card?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

I can't read the attached jpg. How do I get in touch with Tivo to let them know I have a Series 1?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

For Ira: when will we begin to receive Rovi guide data?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

dcstager said:


> Can Tivo Series 1 owners like me who bought it with lifetime subscription in 1999 opt to transfer lifetime service to a Series 2 machine instead of the $75 credit card?


This seems like a fair and reasonable request.

And not just to a series 2. But any other series.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Q for the upcoming AMA with Bahr:
TiVo reps have made mention in the past of releasing in 2016 some sort of new retail product that isn't a traditional DVR. Is such a device still planned for release soon and can you provide any details? Is it a streaming box to complete with Roku, etc?


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

BobCamp1 said:


> I can't read the attached jpg. How do I get in touch with Tivo to let them know I have a Series 1?


Hi...Replaced attachment with link to JPG image in original post.


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## rd0125 (Feb 19, 2002)

dcstager said:


> Can Tivo Series 1 owners like me who bought it with lifetime subscription in 1999 opt to transfer lifetime service to a Series 2 machine instead of the $75 credit card?


I can't remember exactly when I put my Series 1 (Sony) in service. Seems like I bought the last one in stock at the old Circuit Store (Circuit City, a trip down memory lane) near I-20 in Columbia, SC. Maybe early 2002. I put lifetime on it immediately, and its been calling home daily since. I always understood "lifetime" in "TIVO world" to mean the life of the unit while in the possession of original owner who activated the lifetime service. Well, both the Sony and I survive to this day. It may be in better shape than I am.

I fully understand that the old units are becoming a pain in the neck for TIVO to feed and support. And I sort of expected this to happen some day.

My old Sony is in a backup role while my series 3 hdxl & my series 5 pro (both lifetime) take on the front line duties. Right now the Sony has about 40 episodes of "The Beverly Hillbillies" on her (and has recently been collecting episodes of "Green Acres"), which I watch when I need to relive the good old days. I also have a series 2 (month to month) in semi-retirement, but on line and ready to take wake up and get to work when needed. (How did I live before I could record 11 programs at the same time while watching the 12th.?)

I think that transferring the Series 1 lifetime to the Series 2 (or to any other already activated TIVO not on lifetime) for $75, as has been suggested, would be a fair resolution of the meaning of "lifetime" as we TIVO lovers with still active Series 1's have come to know and understand it.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

jtracy said:


> David - thank you for doing this and sharing this. You seem to understand the plight of many of us Series1 customers and I commend you for arranging this Q&A. I don't have a question at the moment because I am frustrated over how poorly the letter to Series1 customers was (insensitive and insincere) and how it didn't address major issues (license transferals, where to buy replacement TiVo's - preferably at a discount, etc.).


Actually, I am not in the same mind set as you from reading your other 2 posts even though you have been a member from 2002 yet today posted for the first time. (?) It is a 15 year old box that surely, IMHO having been in the CE arena for so long having worked with all the manufacturers I have, has surely outlived it's life. Most such products are never thought to have such a long life based mostly on the mechanical hard drive and just advancement in tech. It is amazing they still are running. (Very cool though also that it was built that well right down to the power supply.)

I kindly ask we DO NOT let this thread degrade into bashing or chat of lawsuits. It is not needed and not welcome. I am honored that TiVo thinks so much of this community to want to have a direct Q&A with the members. This is a relationship I would not want to see hurt by such chatter. You can get more done by general thought discussion than direct attacking. This hold true for ANY company. (Can you tell I have been down this road before?  Yup, more than once and for multi companies.)

Anyway, please be so kind to keep this thread dedicated to question asking.

Thank you all.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

David Bott said:


> ............. This is a relationship I would not want to see hurt by such chatter. You can get more done by general thought discussion than direct attacking. This hold true for ANY company. (Can you tell I have been down this road before?  Yup, more than once and for multi companies.) Anyway, please be so kind to keep this thread dedicated to question asking. Thank you all.


Hmmmmm, for some reason TAW comes to mind!   Thanks so much for keeping us in the loop David. Can't wait to hear from Ira.

You've been an invaluable asset to all of us on the various forums (AVS, TCF, etc.)!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I think this is a question at the top of a lot of people's list...
> 
> Will there be a 6 tuner "Bolt Pro" released this year?


This would be my question, but I'd modify it as follows: "Does TiVo still have plans to release a "Pro" version of the Bolt with more tuners and more storage at any point in the future?"

This way, it doesn't force him to answer yes or no on the time frame and might allow him to provide more information.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> This seems like a fair and reasonable request.
> 
> And not just to a series 2. But any other series.


In theory, the lifetime service transfer should be for a model that isn't obsolete. Tivo has made it quite clear that supporting anything older than a Premiere is a burden to them. Transferring it to a Series 2 is just kicking the can down the road.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

The real problem with this is that only TiVo geeks have any idea what a "Series 1" is. The box your TiVo comes in doesn't say "Series X" on it anywhere. None of the menus you see every day say "Series X" anywhere. Much more useful to ordinary users would be model numbers and branding actually printed on the case .


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I wonder why I have no email from them. I have a Series 1 with lifetime. But it's been unplugged for several years now.


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I wonder why I have no email from them. I have a Series 1 with lifetime. But it's been unplugged for several years now.


Hey jsmeeker. This is from their FAQ in the email:

"TiVo is extending this offer to any active Product Lifetime subscriber on a TiVo Series1 DVR, which has connected to the TiVo service between January 1, 2016 - July 31, 2016."


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> I wonder why I have no email from them. I have a Series 1 with lifetime. But *it's been unplugged for several years now*.


This is why. Only users with active units are getting the email.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

jtracy said:


> Hey jsmeeker. This is from their FAQ in the email:
> 
> "TiVo is extending this offer to any active Product Lifetime subscriber on a TiVo Series1 DVR, which has connected to the TiVo service between January 1, 2016 - July 31, 2016."


Thanks. I didn't get the email. and at the time I looked at what David had posted, it was too small for me to read.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> For Ira: when will we begin to receive Rovi guide data?


I kind of suspect we already have. After the four straight days of no extensions of guide data this past weekend the daily updates have resumed and now occur in the early mornings rather than late in the afternoons or evening. To my limited knowledge this has never occurred before, at least not for on the order of a year. At the very least it suggests to me the daily guide updates have been moved offshore like from U.S. to India, or further east offshore like from India to southeast Asia.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

series5orpremier said:


> I kind of suspect we already have. After the four straight days of no extensions of guide data this past weekend the daily updates have resumed and now occur in the early mornings rather than late in the afternoons or evening. To my limited knowledge this has never occurred before, at least not for on the order of a year. At the very least it suggests to me the daily guide updates have been moved offshore like from U.S. to India, or further east offshore like from India to southeast Asia.


We will know when the guide data was switched. And it appears a software update is coming along with the guide update.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

series5orpremier said:


> I kind of suspect we already have. After the four straight days of no extensions of guide data this past weekend the daily updates have resumed and now occur in the early mornings rather than late in the afternoons or evening. To my limited knowledge this has never occurred before, at least not for on the order of a year. At the very least it suggests to me the daily guide updates have been moved offshore like from U.S. to India, or further east offshore like from India to southeast Asia.


No wonder I feel like eating Shrimp Fried Lice or Nan Bread with Dal and mango chutney after looking at the Rovi guide.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

For Ira: What is unique about the Rovi meta data that the Series 2 and 3 units can handle it, but Series 1 can't? I'm curious about what's happening (and why) from an engineering perspective that makes retiring Series 1's necessary.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

For Ira: Users of Windows Media Center have a famously "mixed" history with unreliable Rovi metadata, which surely Tivo is aware of.

What assurances can Tivo offer their customers that the future meta data is at least equally good and accurate as Gracenote, and not a downgrade as widely feared?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

For Ira: What will the upgrade process to Rovi metadata be for customers? Will there be a software update, or will it flow down seamlessly just as it currently does with daily connections?


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Will we continue to see direct-to-consumer products coming out from the combined TiVo/Rovi company?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I totally get the rationale to move on from ancient products and would certainly take $75 for most of my 15 year old tech products. But I'm wondering if TiVo will provide a tentative (or specific) EOL schedule for Series 2, Series 3, and Roamio, as companies like Citrix, Microsoft, and Blackberry do, since "Lifetime" appears to be a marketing term of unknown and potentially variable length with service potentially being cut with only about 6 weeks notice.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

Ira: Can you give legs to the rumors of a new Guide UI and if so when we can look forward to it? Bonus points if you decide to talk in detail about it or can describe it a bit to us?

Ira: Is Voice Control via remote in the works or thru 3rd party control like Alexa?

Ira: New TiVo Mini, soonish? If so, 4k right? :up::up::up:

Ira: Can you give free cookies some day soon to the TiVO support reps that visit these boards, and even CSRs everywhere else as thanks from us TiVo customers? As I and I'm sure others have had a few exceptional members of your support staff. They deserve it. (I promised one of your support team I would tell management that they deserve cookies for fixing my issue)

Promise kept & Thanks.

Keep up the good work.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

davezatz said:


> I totally get the rationale to move on from ancient products and would certainly take $75 for most of my 15 year old tech products. But I'm wondering if TiVo will provide a tentative (or specific) EOL schedule for Series 2, Series 3, and Roamio, as companies like Citrix, Microsoft, and Blackberry do, since "Lifetime" appears to be a marketing term of unknown and potentially variable length with service potentially being cut with only about 6 weeks notice.


The tricky part is the lifetime service compared to other companies that actually post EOL schedules. Also, TiVo still gets some revenue from some of those users making it more complex. But I suspect the real reason is they themselves have no idea how long they want to support each device.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Ira:

Are there any plans at all to utilize your own streaming OTT services for cable type channels a la' SlingTV, PS Vue, DirecTV Now, etc., so as to avoid all the pitfalls of trying to work with the various cable MSOs/FiOS (cablecards, Tuning Adapters, poor MSO CSR & Field Tech knowledge, etc.)? If not, then possibly team up with one of these services to offer them on TiVo DVRs, hopefully seamlessly within the TiVo UI? Channel Master DVR+ does this with SlingTV.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

rainwater said:


> We will know when the guide data was switched. And it appears a software update is coming along with the guide update.


I would expect when it happens the guide data section in the copyright and trademarks section will say provided by TiVo and not Tribune.


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## satpro (Jan 9, 2004)

I have an original HDR-312 that is unsubbed it was never activated for guide service beyond the free 7 days but has been connected continuously and dialing in to set the time correctly since 2000 and update the channel lineup. Current account status reads: 7 never set up.

How will this change affect this grandfathered Series 1 model which shipped with v1.3 but has since upgraded to v3.

*Will the time set still be supported and the dialup network still remain active to allow manual recordings? *

I also pay monthly for a roamio but still use the HDR312 series 1 with my dish network satellite receiver for manual recordings. It shipped with version 1.3 which supported manual recording without a subscription.

My unit was never activated or registered since I never subbed to the guide service just used manual recordings so I have not received any email.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

When will 20.6.1a.RC7 be released for the Roamio to fix the Comcast H.264 recording issues?


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Ira: Will Roamios and Bolts be able to adapt to ATSC 3.0 with external tuners, same for emerging non cable card ip implementations by the cable companies (utilizing the ethernet/lan port like Uverse/Prism TV)? If not, will there be new Tivo equipment or "TiVo Powered" devices than can do such? 

Also can we get TiVo color schemes? the Blue gets boring, I like the UK TiVo color scheme.


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## razor237 (Feb 1, 2002)

I cant say this is a surprise , The s1 has lived long life. This does bring up the question what does lifetime truly mean from a TiVo Prospective, im sure lots of people who buy something that says lifetime they have an expectation that it will work for as long as that box keeps kicking. 17 years is a long life but what will decide the end of life for the other Tivos is 17 years going to be a cutoff for someone with lifetime service or is that number going to start getting less and less ? We all know TiVo wants to nix the lifetime service all together, kinda hope this isnt the start of the cycle 

Is it possible for tivo to allow opened up dial options on the S1's and guide data format so say people with the knowledge and know how could setup there own guide server for there tivo to call into so they could still use it


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Ira:

As several people here, I am anxiously waiting for a Bolt Pro with at least six tuners, and higher built in storage capacity.

Any plans on a wireless Mini? Something similar to what Dish Network and Directv offers with their wireless client boxes, as they work great for moving tvs to various places that have no coax and no Ethernet run, including outdoor patios.

Thanks!


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> This is why. Only users with active units are getting the email.


I don't have my e-mail account registered with them. I'm assuming I'll get a new message on the Tivo itself, with a phone number to call?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

davezatz said:


> I totally get the rationale to move on from ancient products and would certainly take $75 for most of my 15 year old tech products. But I'm wondering if TiVo will provide a tentative (or specific) EOL schedule for Series 2, Series 3, and Roamio, as companies like Citrix, Microsoft, and Blackberry do, since "Lifetime" appears to be a marketing term of unknown and potentially variable length with service potentially being cut with only about 6 weeks notice.


You stole my question! I mean, do I buy a Premiere and hook it up to an SD TV?

I'd buy a used S2 to replace the S1, but I have no idea if I'm going to have to go through this all over again in six months.

Here's another one,

Considering Tivo had to reimburse S1 owners since Tivo is violating the TOS, and could have chosen anything from current fair market value to a brand new Bolt replacement, why did Tivo pick the lowest reimbursement value for their loyal 15-year old customers? Why not give an option for either $75 cash OR free/significant discount on all-in service on a new DVR? You offered Premiere owners a $99 lifetime option after all, and there can't be that many active S1 owners still out there.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

My question for Ira:

Why can't we keep our lifetime subscriptions? I have four working Series 1 units with lifetime subs (two active, two spares) that are being turned into scrap by this change. I can understand Tivo wanting to drop support for Series 1. I don't mind buying new hardware minus the $75 for each my my active units. *But Tivo should honor their contract by allowing me to move the lifetime subscription to new hardware if Tivo is going to "break" my old hardware.*​


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## drewsterb (Aug 17, 2016)

While I'm sure the news is probably disappointing, I don't think it's unreasonable -- cutting support for a device which was last manufactured almost 15 years ago.

However, I don't think the 6-week's notice window seems pretty short. I would have expected at least 90 days.

On the other hand, as a person who has owned about 7 TiVOs I am really surprised to learn anybody was still using the series 1. No HD, minimal features compared to newer ones, and extraordinarily slow.

It would probably be good to give an End Of Life notice on series 2 now as well -- maybe with a 9 to 12 month window, to get that out of the way as well.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Maybe Ira can ask the engineering folks about this?

If I power on a Mini and try to go to LIVE TV while the Bolt is recording three shows, I'm told "no free tuners are available."

If you're currently watching LIVE TV on a Mini and start 3 recordings on 3 other channels, Mini live TV is uninterrupted, so it is possible for the mini to use the fourth tuner.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I have 2 questions for Ira:

Please comment on the prospects for an updated Mini.

Please comment on the lack of Tivo support to Plex in getting the many issues resolved since this platform was launched on the various tivos. For most, the Plex implementation simply does not work. Or work well enough compared to other Plex implementations to be a viable use case.


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## robplum (Jan 28, 2016)

David Bott said:


> Actually, I am not in the same mind set as you from reading your other 2 posts even though you have been a member from 2002 yet today posted for the first time. (?) It is a 15 year old box that surely, IMHO having been in the CE arena for so long having worked with all the manufacturers I have, has surely outlived it's life. Most such products are never thought to have such a long life based mostly on the mechanical hard drive and just advancement in tech. It is amazing they still are running. (Very cool though also that it was built that well right down to the power supply.)
> 
> I kindly ask we DO NOT let this thread degrade into bashing or chat of lawsuits. It is not needed and not welcome. I am honored that TiVo thinks so much of this community to want to have a direct Q&A with the members. This is a relationship I would not want to see hurt by such chatter. You can get more done by general thought discussion than direct attacking. This hold true for ANY company. (Can you tell I have been down this road before?  Yup, more than once and for multi companies.)
> 
> ...


David,

First, thank you for your dedication to the TIVO community.

Second, I agree that the tone of the discussion should be kept respectful and constructive.

Third, I disagree with your take on the termination of Series 1 lifetime subscription and this is a proper and fair question to pose to Ira.

The compensation is not commensurate with the original agreement and investment. In the early days of TIVO (Series 1 era), those that took the "lifetime" option were taking a big risk that TIVO would be around. TIVO used our future money to keep the company afloat. Now that the future seems to be somewhat stable TIVO feels that it does not have to keep its side of the bargain. So the question to Ira is: How did you come up with the $75 figure?

As others have suggested, a more reasonable compensation would be to let Series 1 users buy a supported model and honor the lifetime subscription.

Fourth, I have tried to contact Mr. Bahr directly but as you can see for yourself the letter has neither a phone number nor an email address to respond to him.

Once again thank you for the time and energy that you have committed to the community.

RJP


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

$75 is about double the market value for a lifetime S1 - so their offer seems pretty reasonable. 

Offering the amount only as a credit is a little self serving, but not unprecedented or surprising.


Just some quick math:

Market value for a 15 year old Lifetime S1 TiVo is about $50... The current cost for a lifetime service is $550 dollars. So a transfer would be 11 times the market value for the device?

I am not sure it is even a reasonable request....


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

bradleys said:


> $75 is about double the market value for a lifetime S1 - so their offer seems pretty reasonable.
> 
> Offering the amount only as a credit is a little self serving, but not unprecedented or surprising.


They're not offering the amount as a credit only. They're offering a $75 Visa gift card that can be used on anything.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

How much would a lifetimed S2 cost on eBay? Admittedly since an S2 is better than an S1, it would be reasonable for the gift card to be a bit less than the cost of a lifetimed S2. OTOH if there is going to be a surge in demand for lifetimed S2's, the cost to buy one might go up.

(I actually own a few lifetimed S2s myself. Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure one of them was extremely cheap - somewhere south of $40 as I recall, but it came with a bad hard drive, which I repaired.)


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

Hey all...We need 4 more questions currently as we have selected 16 of them at this time.

Thanks


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Question..

Will the change in guide data vendor have an impact on shows we've transferred to our PC (using tivo desktop) or shows we've downloaded to a mobile device using the tivo app?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Will SkipMode be expanded to include more channels any time soon? On a related note... Can you please include @midnight in SkipMode like you do some of the other late night talk shows?


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## bstrohl (Aug 22, 2004)

Has anyone heard if this applies to series 1 DirecTiVos?
They are different than the OTA or cable TiVos.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Don't DirecTiVos get their guide data from DirecTV?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

dcstager said:


> Can Tivo Series 1 owners like me who bought it with lifetime subscription in 1999 opt to transfer lifetime service to a Series 2 machine instead of the $75 credit card?


I think you could probably find a used S2 with lifetime service online for $75.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

RoamioJeff said:


> Now, should I expect that Gateway will send me $75 due to the fact my computer I bought from them in 1999 will no longer work with a supported Windows operating system? Perspective.


The difference is that Gateway never made any contractual Lifetime promises. Having said that, it's sounding like $75 may be a fair settlement.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

timckelley said:


> The difference is that Gateway never made any contractual Lifetime promises. Having said that, it's sounding like $75 may be a fair settlement.


Customers who bought lifetime service were/are allowed one free transfer. Customers who bought product lifetime service purchased service until their units stopped working or when tivo decided they were at the end of their life.


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## robplum (Jan 28, 2016)

bradleys said:


> $75 is about double the market value for a lifetime S1 - so their offer seems pretty reasonable.
> 
> Offering the amount only as a credit is a little self serving, but not unprecedented or surprising.
> 
> ...


Your "math" is exactly that "math" and it just does an end-around the real issue. But if one was to accept your math the comparison price (the value of the Series 1 with lifetime sub) would be the original price of the lifetime sub indexed or a market value which would be the $550 you mentioned. And the used price isn't valid since the offer is limited to the 3,500 active users of S1s. Further, the contract is technically not transferable.

Remember, the Series 1 people took a big risk in that TIVO was new and had no track record. High risk, high reward. Unfortunately TIVO is taking all of the reward.

The issue isn't mathematical though. TIVO is reneging on a deal it made. We entered into a contract. There was consideration by both sides but TIVO decided to unilaterally change the terms of agreement.

Finally, if the number of active Series 1 machines was 10k or 100k rather than 3.5k, TIVO wouldn't be so cavalier (you'd probably have a class action suit). Clearly a business decision on their part with little loss of reputation.

I'm donating my $75 to a charity.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

robplum said:


> Remember, the Series 1 people took a big risk in that TIVO was new and had no track record. High risk, high reward. Unfortunately TIVO is taking all of the reward.


You don't think having a functioning device for 16 years is enough of a "reward" for your risk?

The original 30 hour S1 unit cost about $1,000 after rebate. Lifetime back then was only $200. So you paid, max, $1,200 for the unit. (they got cheaper in subsequent months/years) Divide that by 16 years and you only paid about $75/year for the unit. That seems like a pretty good ROI to me since a cable DVR typically costs $20-$40/mo.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Regardless of how good a deal we got, it's still a reneging of the agreement. But $75 is probably a fair settlement to deal with the welching.

Also I personally have no beef, because back when my S1 became basically non-repairable due to a bad motherboard, TiVo went beyond their end of the deal and let me transfer my lifetime sub to a brand new TiVoHD. I was really caught off guard and thankful for that generosity.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That price is based on worst case scenario. In early 2000 TiVo reduced the prices to $699/$399 for 30/14 hour units respectively. They also started offering more aggressive rebates. I remember getting a 14 hour unit at Circuit City for like $75 after rebate. There was a time when I had 4 S1 units all in a big stack in my living room because the prices were so cheap. If these people got a decent deal on their S1 then they may have paid less then $300 with the lifetime service, bringing their total cost to somewhere around $18/year or about $1.50/mo.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

bkc56 said:


> My question for Ira:
> 
> Why can't we keep our lifetime subscriptions? I have four working Series 1 units with lifetime subs (two active, two spares) that are being turned into scrap by this change. I can understand Tivo wanting to drop support for Series 1. I don't mind buying new hardware minus the $75 for each my my active units. *But Tivo should honor their contract by allowing me to move the lifetime subscription to new hardware if Tivo is going to "break" my old hardware.*​


Essentially the same question. While not actively dialing in, I have two lifetime S1s that are now rendered totally unusable and unsellable. Just because they haven't been connected in a while doesn't mean I didn't expect them to be "Lifetime" service.

I've gone from multiple S1s to S2s to DTiVos to THDs to Roamio and Minis. I get it when you need/want to move on from earlier models, but I know that I had an expectation that when I bought Lifetime, it meant Lifetime, as long as the TiVo service existed. I get it if you want to compensate active users beyond market value, but there should be something for *any* customer who still has a Lifetime S1 on their account.


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## deliajohn (Apr 24, 2004)

David Bott said:


> Hey all...We need 4 more questions currently as we have selected 16 of them at this time.
> 
> Thanks


Can we see those 16 questions so far? TIA


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

deliajohn said:


> Can we see those 16 questions so far? TIA


Here is the list without the answers filled in yet....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542639

the last few are ones I threw in to fill space in case we didn't get any more from the community. If you have a question that's not asked let me know and I can replace one of the ones I added.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Here is the list without the answers filled in yet....
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542639
> 
> the last few are ones I threw in to fill space in case we didn't get any more from the community. If you have a question that's not asked let me know and I can replace one of the ones I added.


WooHoo, I made the cut! :up:


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

If we're still soliciting questions, here are a few unrelated to the Series 1...


Has the TiVo Bolt OTA/Aereo Edition, referred to in the prior QA, been scrapped?
Is voice control and/or Amazon Echo integration in the cards?
Will the Amazon Fire TV app be updated and will other clients, like Roku or Apple TV, be made available?


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

I have 2 lifetime series 1's that are qualified for the grandfathered 1-time transfer. Does that mean I won't be able to do so in the future?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

eisenb11 said:


> I have 2 lifetime series 1's that are qualified for the grandfathered 1-time transfer. Does that mean I won't be able to do so in the future?


I'd recommend doing it now. I assume that once you accept the $75 you're forfeiting your right to that 1 time transfer.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

The site for those that do not know that has an S1, but need to, is this... http://Tivo.com/series1


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Will SkipMode be expanded to include more channels any time soon? On a related note... Can you please include @midnight in SkipMode like you do some of the other late night talk shows?


And will SkipMode be made available to the mobile clients?


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

David Bott said:


> The site for those that do not know that has an S1, but need to, is this... http://Tivo.com/series1


When will you release the Tivo One S ? 

Edit: you could slap a Tivo Man on the Xbox One S and it would look like a modern Tivo!


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Here is the list without the answers filled in yet....


Curious as to why my question was skipped. I think it's legitimate.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

bkc56 said:


> Curious as to why my question was skipped. I think it's legitimate.


Your question has already been asked in the list, albeit more respectfully.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

Ira: Now that we know the fate of the S1, are we to expect a similar deprecation schedule for S2, S3, etc?


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## bobwojo (Jan 9, 2011)

drewsterb said:


> While I'm sure the news is probably disappointing, I don't think it's unreasonable -- cutting support for a device which was last manufactured almost 15 years ago.
> 
> However, I don't think the 6-week's notice window seems pretty short. I would have expected at least 90 days.
> 
> ...


Agree, 6 weeks is VERY short. 6 months would be reasonable.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Here is the list without the answers filled in yet.... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542639 the last few are ones I threw in to fill space in case we didn't get any more from the community. If you have a question that's not asked let me know and I can replace one of the ones I added.


In the first post, you need to change "initials" to "entails"

I hope we get some more questions because many of those are extremely narrowly focused and the answers will be interesting to about three people.



davezatz said:


> If we're still soliciting questions, here are a few unrelated to the Series 1...
> 
> [*]Has the TiVo Bolt OTA/Aereo Edition, referred to in the prior QA, been scrapped?
> [*]Is voice control and/or Amazon Echo integration in the cards?
> [*]Will the Amazon Fire TV app be updated and will other clients, like Roku or Apple TV, be made available?


These are exactly the kinds of questions I'd like to see asked, especially the third one.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

robplum said:


> The compensation is not commensurate with the original agreement and investment.


Series 1 users received about 15 years from a consumer electronics item. If that ain't "commensurate with investment" I don't know what is.



dslunceford said:


> While not actively dialing in, I have two lifetime S1s that are now rendered totally unusable and unsellable. Just because they haven't been connected in a while doesn't mean I didn't expect them to be "Lifetime" service.


You weren't even using them! Why do you care that they're going from unused to unusable? Were you really going to plug in AND USE a device that only records analog SD?



bobwojo said:


> Agree, 6 weeks is VERY short. 6 months would be reasonable.


Why? What would you do with the extra time?


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## kp100 (Apr 8, 2007)

You probably have your 20 questions, but here's mine: What's the rationale for not offering $75 to series 1 owners who have not used the unit in the past year? I have an extra unit with lifetime that I use sporadically, but not since moving into a new home 18 months ago. It works fine and I've considered hooking it up again. The agreement was "lifetime," not "until you stop using it for a while." Like others, I'd prefer the option to move lifetime to a new machine.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

bradleys said:


> Your question has already been asked in the list...


Could you please point it out to me (question #)? The only one I see that's even close is the one about 1999 subscribers and Series 2 units (question #2). But it's unrelated to my question on both counts.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> If we're still soliciting questions, here are a few unrelated to the Series 1...
> 
> 
> Has the TiVo Bolt OTA/Aereo Edition, referred to in the prior QA, been scrapped?
> ...


I tried to sneak these in but it was too late. Ira had already been given the list I posted. Sorry. If the tread hadn't gotten so off track with all the S1 complaining we might have been able to filter them better.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I tried to sneak these in but it was too late. Ira had already been given the list I posted. Sorry. If the tread hadn't gotten so off track with all the S1 complaining we might have been able to filter them better.


I'll be Ira would much prefer to answer these three rather than some of the ones you gave him. See if you can slip these in as well and let him choose three of the original questions to skip.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

bkc56 said:


> Could you please point it out to me (question #)? The only one I see that's even close is the one about 1999 subscribers and Series 2 units (question #2). But it's unrelated to my question on both counts.


If you look at the other thread discussing this issue, several people have called and gotten their Series 1 lifetime moved to a new unit, so you may be able to get exactly what you want if you call TiVo.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

David Bott said:


> It is a 15 year old box that surely, IMHO having been in the CE arena for so long having worked with all the manufacturers I have, has surely outlived it's life. Most such products are never thought to have such a long life based mostly on the mechanical hard drive and just advancement in tech. It is amazing they still are running. (Very cool though also that it was built that well right down to the power supply.)


I don't agree that "lifetime" should be 15 years. $699 for the box plus $300 for lifetime was not small change in 2000. Some of us did it more than once. And before they had multi unit discounts too!
The up-front money for lifetime was more valuable to Tivo back then than $10/month "next year." It was a gamble they would be around for the 30 months it would take to break even. For a while it looked like ReplayTV might win. In essence early adopters helped fund Tivo when they need it most. 
(Yes I'm a low-posting lurker of 14 years)


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> If you look at the other thread discussing this issue, several people have called and gotten their Series 1 lifetime moved to a new unit, so you may be able to get exactly what you want if you call TiVo.


I've been following that and it looks promising. I'll be calling in the next day or two. I need to have my two spares "phone home" first so that I can prove I still have possession of all four (I need to move the lifetime from the spares so the main ones keep working until they shut them off next month).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

bkc56 said:


> I've been following that and it looks promising. I'll be calling in the next day or two. I need to have my two spares "phone home" first so that I can prove I still have possession of all four (I need to move the lifetime from the spares so the main ones keep working until they shut them off next month).


I thought there was a certain timeframe within which the S1s had to have connected with TiVo's servers in order to qualify for the offer, and that timeframe is already past. So plugging in your spare units now and forcing a connection isn't going to help unless you've had them connected and forced a connection sometime within the last several months.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'll be Ira would much prefer to answer these three rather than some of the ones you gave him. See if you can slip these in as well and let him choose three of the original questions to skip.


I tried, his assistant said it was too late.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

Dan is right is is why we had a deadline that was mentioned in my post. I am just happy they thought enough of the site and members to extend a Q&A and with 20 questions at that. 

Thanks all. Looking forward to posting the thread with the answers.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

bkc56 said:


> Could you please point it out to me (question #)? The only one I see that's even close is the one about 1999 subscribers and Series 2 units (question #2). But it's unrelated to my question on both counts.


I would have to look, but it is phrased similar to: What is the technical reason why the S1 cannot be upgraded but the S2 can?



bkc56 said:


> I've been following that and it looks promising. I'll be calling in the next day or two. I need to have my two spares "phone home" first so that I can prove I still have possession of all four (I need to move the lifetime from the spares so the main ones keep working until they shut them off next month).


I think you may be disappointed if those units haven't called in between January 31st and July 31st. The offers are being extended to "active" units. TiVo is defining active units has having called home within that time period.

Were any of your units activated in 1999?


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought there was a certain timeframe within which the S1s had to have connected with TiVo's servers in order to qualify for the offer, and that timeframe is already past.


You are correct. Only the two in daily use have been calling in. BUT, I don't want to "break" them by transferring their subscriptions during the time it will take me to switch over. I want to transfer the subscriptions from the two spare units (that don't qualify for the $75 because they haven't called in all year). Having them call in now is simply so that when they look at the account they will see I still own them.

Now perhaps hey will only transfer the sub from the active ones. I can handle that, it's just a ton more work. I'll have to pull the active ones from the stack, replace them with the spares, download data, add season passes, etc. It'll just be easier if I can do it the other way.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

bradleys said:


> I would have to look, but it is phrased similar to: What is the technical reason why the S1 cannot be upgraded but the S2 can?


While that's indeed an interesting question, it's unrelated to what I asked (which is now unnecessary since it appears Tivo is giving us an upgrade path).


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I found it both sad and amazing that when given the chance to ask a top-level TiVo executive twenty questions, so many people thought questions about 15 year old S1s were the way to go.

What does the future hold, not the past. And thanks to those of you who did provide interesting questions. I'm looking forward to hearing the replies.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I found it both sad and amazing that when given the chance to ask a top-level TiVo executive twenty questions, so many people thought questions about 15 year old S1s were the way to go.
> 
> What does the future hold, not the past. And thanks to those of you who did provide interesting questions. I'm looking forward to hearing the replies.


What's the title of this thread again?

Maybe a separate thread should have been started regarding the 20 questions titled, "20 questions to ask Ira".


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The 20 question thing was presented to us in conjunction with the news about the S1 and was somewhat linked. So we expected some of the questions to be related to the S1. It was all very short notice with a quick deadline, so we didn't have much time to plan out exactly how it was going to work.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

The 20 questions and replies have now need posted. Thank you to all that took part in submitting questions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542670


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

lew said:


> Customers who bought lifetime service were/are allowed one free transfer. Customers who bought product lifetime service purchased service until their units stopped working or when tivo decided they were at the end of their life.


Not correct.
If the lifetime purchase was before a certain date in (Feb?) 2000, the contract was ambiguous: was "lifetime" your lifetime or the equipment's lifetime. Tivo decided rather than face litigation they would allow one transfer.
The contract for purchases after that date were clarified, "lifetime" was the lifetime of the original hardware. 
There is no "or until Tivo decides they are end of life" in the contract.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

n6161h said:


> I don't agree that "lifetime" should be 15 years. $699 for the box plus $300 for lifetime was not small change in 2000. Some of us did it more than once. And before they had multi unit discounts too!
> The up-front money for lifetime was more valuable to Tivo back then than $10/month "next year." It was a gamble they would be around for the 30 months it would take to break even. For a while it looked like ReplayTV might win. In essence early adopters helped fund Tivo when they need it most.
> (Yes I'm a low-posting lurker of 14 years)


Lifetime was only $199 in 2000 as my wife bought me our first one (Sony S1) for Father's Day that year. It went up later to $249 by the time we bought our second Philips S1 in 2002.

I'll have to ask her how much she paid for the Sony S1 but it wasn't $699 by June.

Scott


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> Lifetime was only $199 in 2000 as my wife bought me our first one (Sony S1) for Father's Day that year. It went up later to $249 by the time we bought our second Philips S1 in 2002. I'll have to ask her how much she paid for the Sony S1 but it wasn't $699 by June. Scott


I just saw an archived TiVo webpage that showed them at $399 with $199 for Lifetime.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> I just saw an archived TiVo webpage that showed them at $399 with $199 for Lifetime.


My wife was thinking around $400 (in June as it could have been more expensive earlier in the year). 

Scott


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> My wife was thinking around $400 (in June as it could have been more expensive earlier in the year).


Yeah, they didn't launch at $400...


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

n6161h said:


> Not correct.
> If the lifetime purchase was before a certain date in (Feb?) 2000, the contract was ambiguous: was "lifetime" your lifetime or the equipment's lifetime. Tivo decided rather than face litigation they would allow one transfer.
> The contract for purchases after that date were clarified, "lifetime" was the lifetime of the original hardware.
> There is no "or until Tivo decides they are end of life" in the contract.


And the contract didn't forbid you from repairing the unit with regards to lifetime service. It said repairing/modifying yourself is in violation of the TOS, but it didn't say exactly what the consequences would be. It only threatened discontinuation of service.

Besides, if Tivo used that excuse to just cut service off for the modified S1s while letting the other modified Tivos operate, they can get into trouble. Especially if the modified units have been operating for over a decade without any problems.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

It may turn out good for Tivo that its good riddens for these complainers.

Tivo has been giving great offers, but they still complain.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

foghorn2 said:


> Tivo has been giving great offers...


The current offer seems to be:

1. A discounted price on either of the two Bolt models (500G, 1T).
2. Transfer of your lifetime subscription.
3. The $75 gift card.

This is of course very different from the offer in the initial e-mail. I got 2 of them yesterday selecting the 1TB models. You do have to push past the front-line support to get to a supervisor, and be prepared to spend an hour on the phone to get everything completed.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

HarperVision said:


> I just saw an archived TiVo webpage that showed them at $399 with $199 for Lifetime.





HerronScott said:


> My wife was thinking around $400 (in June as it could have been more expensive earlier in the year).
> 
> Scott





davezatz said:


> Yeah, they didn't launch at $400...


Yeah, probably not launch prices, but this is what I saw:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000815053322/http://www.tivo.com/buy/buy.html


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> Yeah, probably not launch prices, but this is what I saw:
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000815053322/http://www.tivo.com/buy/buy.html


At release the price for a 30 hour Philips unit was $999. They lowered that $699 in late 1999 and then to $399 in March of 2000, which is when I bought my first one. (I had wanted one for a while, but that was the first time I could afford one) After that the prices stayed roughly the same for a while, but they got really aggressive with rebates. (that page shows $100 rebate) Also some retailers like Circuit City and Best Buy were aggressively trying to flush the smaller, less popular, 14 hour units from inventory so they offered deep discounts on those. I remember getting a couple 14 hour units for <$100/ea after rebate from Circuit City.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

I found by original sales receipt for my Sony Series 1 TiVo (SVR-2000). I ordered it from 800.com Electronics (no longer in business) on 12-13-01. It was $399.95. There was a $50.00 immediate discount, and there was the $100 TiVo rebate coupon sent along with it, thereby bringing the price down to $249.95.

Activated it, and purchased Lifetime Service on 12-31-01 for $249. It has been running, all original, since that date.

After receiving the email about the affected Series 1 owners, and the $75 gift card, I was able to call in and purchase a 1000GB Bolt, and have my Lifetime Service transferred over from my Series 1 for free, PLUS I still get to keep the $75 gift card. Bolt should be arriving by this Wednesday. We'll be permanently unplugging our workhorse of a Series 1 on September 30th... after almost 15 years of continuous usage!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mahermusic said:


> I found by original sales receipt for my Sony Series 1 TiVo (SVR-2000). I ordered it from 800.com Electronics (no longer in business) on 12-13-01. It was $399.95. There was a $50.00 immediate discount, and there was the $100 TiVo rebate coupon sent along with it, thereby bringing the price down to $249.95. Activated it, and purchased Lifetime Service on 12-31-01 for $249. It has been running, all original, since that date. After receiving the email about the affected Series 1 owners, and the $75 gift card, I was able to call in and purchase a 1000GB Bolt, and have my Lifetime Service transferred over from my Series 1 for free, PLUS I still get to keep the $75 gift card. Bolt should be arriving by this Wednesday. We'll be permanently unplugging our workhorse of a Series 1 on September 30th... after almost 15 years of continuous usage!


Well done my proud and noble steed!


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

mahermusic said:


> I found by original sales receipt for my Sony Series 1 TiVo (SVR-2000). I ordered it from 800.com Electronics (no longer in business) on 12-13-01. It was $399.95. There was a $50.00 immediate discount, and there was the $100 TiVo rebate coupon sent along with it, thereby bringing the price down to $249.95.
> 
> Activated it, and purchased Lifetime Service on 12-31-01 for $249. It has been running, all original, since that date.
> 
> After receiving the email about the affected Series 1 owners, and the $75 gift card, I was able to call in and purchase a 1000GB Bolt, and have my Lifetime Service transferred over from my Series 1 for free, PLUS I still get to keep the $75 gift card. Bolt should be arriving by this Wednesday. We'll be permanently unplugging our workhorse of a Series 1 on September 30th... after almost 15 years of continuous usage!


Awesome! If that's not a good deal, I don't know what is.

But others would still some reason to complain.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

RoamioJeff said:


> But others would still some reason to complain.


I actually haven't seen anyone complaining now that it's confirmed we're able to move our lifetime subs to a new/discounted bolt. Perhaps in some other thread I'm not watching?


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## hdeditor (Jan 7, 2004)

Microsoft didn't explictly charge for "lifetime service". We paid a premium to contract for "lifetime service." Microsoft software always came with a user disclaimer that it wasn't necessarily suited for any particular use, as all software EULAs do.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

My Roamio this morning had a message about moving to new guide data real soon now (no, I didn't write down the exact wording). So I guess the process has already begun (you should hear that in a Keanu Reeves voice .


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Tivo has been giving great offers, but they still complain.


FTY, Tivo has made no offers for transfers of S1 units since ~2006 when I updated one of my units. I've been waiting patiently every since. They have made offers to buy additional units, but nothing to transfer out of the S1 units.

Over the past 16 years years, this "complainer" has purchased 6 Tivos and 5 Lifetime service contracts. Plus given 2 others with 1 year pre-paid service as gifts.

I don't think Tivo will he "happy" if I quit being a customer.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> At release the price for a 30 hour Philips unit was $999. They lowered that $699 in late 1999 and then to $399 in March of 2000, which is when I bought my first one.


I was one of the lucky ones who paid the full $699, then had a monthly for ~6 months then purchased the lifetime for $199. I got a better deal on my 2nd one, but the cost of entry was steep for the 1st one.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

bkc56 said:


> I actually haven't seen anyone complaining now that it's confirmed we're able to move our lifetime subs to a new/discounted bolt.


I've not seen anyone complaining about Tivo killing off the S1. The deals they are offering are good.

It's more like loosing an old friend. My one of my S-1s survived the modem failures of the early units, the other didn't. I added a TurboNet card and a larger HD and it is still running.

I can't say the same for my S2s. In the last few months one S2 ate its HD; just decided it didn't want to boot one day. The other S2 now has some kind of input problem. The video is "banded." and recording drops out.

The frustration is I'm going from a 5 Tivo household to a 1 Tivo house in the space of 6 weeks. From hackable devices that I run added services on, to a sterile set-top box. I don't think the folks who view them as "consumer electronics" to be discarded get that. (Plus I don't abide with the view that electronics are disposable.)

I'll definitely pick up a Bolt and a couple Minis. But it won't be the same as my old faithful S1s.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

tomhorsley said:


> My Roamio this morning had a message about moving to new guide data real soon now (no, I didn't write down the exact wording). So I guess the process has already begun (you should hear that in a Keanu Reeves voice .


And the process has apparently indeed begun. The BBC America HD channel used to show up with the name BBCAHD (simple enough), now the name is BBCAHD-E. Doesn't seem like useful information is provided by appending "-E", but it will almost certainly screw up download scripts I have that probably look for the old name :-(.


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## bittmann (Apr 19, 2005)

n6161h said:


> _I've not seen anyone complaining about Tivo killing off the S1. The deals they are offering are good.
> 
> It's more like loosing an old friend.
> 
> ...


Hear, here - exactly as I feel. I think I'm going to shed a tear when I finally unplug the old thing.

And I still miss "endpad" on my Roamio.

The S1 was transformative. Revolutionary. A paradigm shift. It really *was* all of those marketing buzzwords.

Today, TiVo is in competition with cable DVRs (most of which are hideous), various PC-based systems, online streaming services, even Redbox and DVD-by-mail if you squint just right.

At the end of the previous millenium, what did you have? For most, at _best _it was manually setting channel, start and stop time on your VCR from a TV Guide listing? ("And we were Happy to do that!"). For the rest, the VCR was stuck at 12:00 - 12:00 - 12:00...

Then, TiVo changed all of that.

So, while the S1 doesn't compare to the capabilities or performance of the newer units, I still hold it in high esteem. It's the real-life answer to the punchline of one of Gallagher's old jokes - "I wish TV had a control to turn up the intelligence. They have one named brightness, but it don't work!"

"TiVo - turning up the intelligence of television viewing since 1999." That's the legacy of the Series 1, and I'm going to miss it.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

hdeditor said:


> Microsoft didn't explictly charge for "lifetime service". We paid a premium to contract for "lifetime service." Microsoft software always came with a user disclaimer that it wasn't necessarily suited for any particular use, as all software EULAs do.


Also, XP still works, it just doesn't get security updates anymore. It isn't like Microsoft disabled a major function of the OS, like writing files to the hard drive.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

tomhorsley said:


> And the process has apparently indeed begun. The BBC America HD channel used to show up with the name BBCAHD (simple enough), now the name is BBCAHD-E. Doesn't seem like useful information is provided by appending "-E", but it will almost certainly screw up download scripts I have that probably look for the old name :-(.


OK, I think the -E means eastern time zone feed. I noticed one channel with a -US on the end which I guess means there is only one feed for the whole country.

Fortunately with all the changes, it seems to be keeping track of the one pass OK even on channels where the name changed.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

n6161h said:


> FTY, Tivo has made no offers for transfers of S1 units since ~2006 when I updated one of my units. I've been waiting patiently every since. They have made offers to buy additional units, but nothing to transfer out of the S1 units.
> 
> Over the past 16 years years, this "complainer" has purchased 6 Tivos and 5 Lifetime service contracts. Plus given 2 others with 1 year pre-paid service as gifts.
> 
> I don't think Tivo will he "happy" if I quit being a customer.


Do you have an Series 1 that is active right now? Did you receive the email for the $75 Visa gift card? If so, call the number in the email. It may take speaking to a Supervisor, but they will offer to transfer the ACTIVE Series 1's lifetime to a discounted 500gb or 1000gb Bolt, and you can still keep the $75 gift card. I, and others in this forum, have already received this un-advertised deal.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

I have a series 1 with lifetime that I don't use that often as I have other newer model Tivos with lifetime. I pretty much use it to watch the recordings on it so I had not actually connected to Tivo for quite awhile (since it uses phone line) I've had it probably 10 years or so. Well I was reading the group here in August and heard about what they were doing for series 1 owners. So I connected to Tivo using the phone line and let it do it's guide info etc. I called Tivo to see what they would do for me. Was on the phone an hour of so, got transferred once (to a supervisor I guess). At first it sounded like they would do the deal with the discounted Bolt and transfer my service to the Bolt. But in the end they said since I did not connect before July 31 2016 I was eligible for nothing. It also did not fall into the date of purchase thing where you are allowed one service transfer.

Now I understand that the deal could be "abused" by people who go out and buy a series 1 just to get a big discount and/or gift card. Or they sold or got rid of their series 1 or it does not work anymore (ie lifetime is only good for the life of the Tivo) BUT I think each case should be looked at individually. I've owned mine for like 10 years or more. I connected in August and they acknowledged they could see that. But said they could do nothing because of the July 31 term of the offer. He did say he would "make a suggestion" to the powers that be and maybe if enough people made the same complaint they would do something. But he did say that was "unlikely".

So is anyone else in the same boat? It irritates me that some people are actually getting the offer and I am not simply because I did not connect before July 31st. We all paid for the lifetime service, we all still own the series 1 and can prove that it is still working. He mentioned I could still setup manual recordings (I already knew that) but you did not even need a Tivo subscription to do that on a series 1, the subscription was for the guide info. So basically my lifetime subscription is now worthless. Maybe if anyone else is in the same situation they could make a complaint but I doubt it will do any good.

Oh one other thing, I had no idea that they were not going to support the series 1 with the new guide info, I only found out because I came to this group to check on another question. They never emailed me or anything warning me my series 1 would not be working after the new guide update. If they are going to have an offer because the service you paid for will become worthless after a certain date they should let you know so you can comply before the "expiration" date, which in this case means connecting before July 31.


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## stamasd (Jun 26, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> It may turn out good for Tivo that its good riddens for these complainers.
> 
> Tivo has been giving great offers, but they still complain.


Hmm, let's see.

$0 for a S1 that still works perfectly with lifetime subscription, 
vs
$$ for another unit that may or may not work with my cable company based on reports I've seen.

Great choice indeed.


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

BobCamp1 said:


> Also, XP still works, it just doesn't get security updates anymore. It isn't like Microsoft disabled a major function of the OS, like writing files to the hard drive.


It is my understanding, though, that if you ever need to reinstall the activation servers are no longer present to activate XP. (I say this as someone with a working, disconnected-from-the-Internet XP machine around to run a few programs not worth re-buying in versions that can run on later versions of Windows.)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> Oh one other thing, I had no idea that they were not going to support the series 1 with the new guide info, I only found out because I came to this group to check on another question. They never emailed me or anything warning me my series 1 would not be working after the new guide update. If they are going to have an offer because the service you paid for will become worthless after a certain date they should let you know so you can comply before the "expiration" date, which in this case means connecting before July 31.


First, TiVo has no way to know you still own a working S1 unless it's calling in to their servers on a regular basis. So since yours wasn't calling in, they didn't know you had it, and therefore didn't know to notify you.

Second, lifetimed S1 units cost TiVo money and they don't bring in any revenue. The last thing they want is to send out a notice that will cause hundreds or thousands of S1 owners to plug in old units and suck more of TiVo's resources.

Third, they calculated the total cost of the $75 offer based on the number of active S1 units (3,500) that connected during the specified period and decided that was an acceptable expense to be able to get rid of the S1 units that are draining their resources. If they allowed what you're suggesting, how many more people would pull old S1 units out of the closet and connect them just to get $75 from TiVo? That could end up costing them twice as much, or more, as what they budgeted for this offer based on the 3,500 number.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> First, TiVo has no way to know you still own a working S1 unless it's calling in to their servers on a regular basis. So since yours wasn't calling in, they didn't know you had it, and therefore didn't know to notify you.
> 
> Second, lifetimed S1 units cost TiVo money and they don't bring in any revenue. The last thing they want is to send out a notice that will cause hundreds or thousands of S1 owners to plug in old units and suck more of TiVo's resources.
> 
> Third, they calculated the total cost of the $75 offer based on the number of active S1 units (3,500) that connected during the specified period and decided that was an acceptable expense to be able to get rid of the S1 units that are draining their resources. If they allowed what you're suggesting, how many more people would pull old S1 units out of the closet and connect them just to get $75 from TiVo? That could end up costing them twice as much, or more, as what they budgeted for this offer based on the 3,500 number.


Ok I understand maybe they were not able to notify me without me connecting. Even though my series 1 is still on my account and shows "active". However I DID connect when I heard about the offer and they WERE able to see that I did. My Tivo account shows active and inactive Tivos, ALL of mine are under "active"

I don't really care about budgeting etc, I care that I own a series 1, have had it for 10 years, proved I still own it and it is still functioning. And will get nothing it seems at this point. That is why I mentioned "individual basis", once you explain the circumstances you should talk to someone who actually has the authority to make things right, not someone who just puts you on hold while they call someone else. The ones who are getting the deal have the same thing as me, a series 1 with lifetime they still own and is functioning, if they get the offer I should get the offer.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

ashipkowski said:


> It is my understanding, though, that if you ever need to reinstall the activation servers are no longer present to activate XP. (I say this as someone with a working, disconnected-from-the-Internet XP machine around to run a few programs not worth re-buying in versions that can run on later versions of Windows.)


Not true. Activation works just fine.

And I also run a DOS 6/Windows for Workgroups PC.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> Ok I understand maybe they were not able to notify me without me connecting. Even though my series 1 is still on my account and shows "active". However I DID connect when I heard about the offer and they WERE able to see that I did. My Tivo account shows active and inactive Tivos, ALL of mine are under "active"
> 
> I don't really care about budgeting etc, I care that I own a series 1, have had it for 10 years, proved I still own it and it is still functioning. And will get nothing it seems at this point. That is why I mentioned "individual basis", once you explain the circumstances you should talk to someone who actually has the authority to make things right, not someone who just puts you on hold while they call someone else. The ones who are getting the deal have the same thing as me, a series 1 with lifetime they still own and is functioning, if they get the offer I should get the offer.


The fact that your S1 shows as "active" on your online account is irrelevant. It's only "active" because the lifetime subscription means it stays active until you call and tell TiVo to remove it from your list. If you had unplugged it in 2008 and stuck it in a closet, it would still show as "active" because it's a unit on your account with an active subscription. That doesn't mean the unit is actually in regular use.

TiVo isn't trying to compensate every single person who owns a lifetimed S1. They're trying to compensate people who are still actively using them for the loss of that current functionality. If your S1 hasn't been connected to their servers in over six months, then you're not actively using it and you won't miss it if the functionality goes away. Most owners of lifetimed S1 units probably would never even notice that the service no longer worked, because they're never going to plug it in again.

However, if you're actively using your S1 and TiVo can see that by it connecting regularly to their servers, then they understand that they're taking something away from you and that's the reason for the compensation.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> However, if you're actively using your S1 and TiVo can see that by it connecting regularly to their servers, then they understand that they're taking something away from you and that's the reason for the compensation.


Yup, We've used our Series 1 almost every day, and it has been dialing out daily since Dec. 31, 2001. It will continue to do so until we...pull the plug on September 30, 2016. (Jeez.... that sounds sad!)


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

RoamioJeff said:


> In life, when dealing with things that have eligibility cutoff dates, there are invariably going to be people who are just on the other side of being eligible. In the past, I have missed sales, rebates, special offers, etc. by short periods of time. Sometimes one day.
> 
> The thing is this: When establishing eligibility for something, the party offering the benefit has to define a date or other form of eligibility. If the offering party "makes an exception" or arbitrarily adjusts the date to let someone in, then there will still be people just on the other side of the new criteria.
> 
> The fact that your S1 was not connected during the period defined in the TiVo offer is unfortunate, but, it is what it is. TiVo could have defined a different period and someone else could have raised the same concerns you have regarding missing the eligibility for the offer. By its very nature, eligibility requirements will exclude some people.


Well the way I still see it is this. I have a Tivo with lifetime service. I've had it a long time and it works. All I want is a Tivo with lifetime service, like I have now. I'd forgo the $75 gift card. Just give me a transfer of the service, that costs them nothing. They could sell me a Bolt (heck I don't even need $75 off the Bolt, maybe $50?) Or I'll buy one on the open market and they can transfer my service. They don't have to lay out one red cent, just transfer my service, if they sell me the Bolt they may even make a bit on the sale. But my lifetime service is paid for, THAT they should take care of, just do a transfer.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

And actually don't care if it's a Bolt. I'll buy a used Roamio, Premier, even a Series 3. Just transfer my lifetime service to any of those.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> Well the way I still see it is this. I have a Tivo with lifetime service. I've had it a long time and it works. All I want is a Tivo with lifetime service, like I have now. I'd forgo the $75 gift card. Just give me a transfer of the service, that costs them nothing. They could sell me a Bolt (heck I don't even need $75 off the Bolt, maybe $50?) Or I'll buy one on the open market and they can transfer my service. They don't have to lay out one red cent, just transfer my service, if they sell me the Bolt they may even make a bit on the sale. But my lifetime service is paid for, THAT they should take care of, just do a transfer.


Well this request does seem more reasonable than expecting the $75 card. I have a couple of useless lifetime subs because the boxes died unrepairable deaths. (At least my multi pronged attempts have all failed.) Lifetime means life of the box, and my boxes died, so TiVo has lived up to their agreement on those, and they don't owe me any free transfer on those. OTOH your box hasn't died like mine, and yet it contains a lifetime sub, so I see how you would think they're not really honoring the deal on your 'lifetime." And I can see why you're trying to make a point about how it recently called in, as evidence your box didn't die.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

timckelley said:


> Well this request does seem more reasonable than expecting the $75 card. I have a couple of useless lifetime subs because the boxes died unrepairable deaths. (At least my multi pronged attempts have all failed.) Lifetime means life of the box, and my boxes died, so TiVo has lived up to their agreement on those, and they don't owe me any free transfer on those. OTOH your box hasn't died like mine, and yet it contains a lifetime sub, so I see how you would think they're not really honoring the deal on your 'lifetime." And I can see why you're trying to make a point about how it recently called in, as evidence your box didn't die.


Thank you. The only reason I cared about the $75 and/or the discount on a Bolt (which I don't really need) was because that is what others said they were getting. The lifetime service is a contract I think (not being a lawyer) so if they are going to do an update which results in the lifetime service not working they should transfer it to another box. In fact IMO that is what they could have done in the first place. Just send out an announcement that series 1 lifetime subscriptions will no longer function as of a certain date. And they will transfer the subscriptions to another Tivo for those who meet this criteria, one the person who has the Tivo must show that the Tivo is in their name (listed in their account) AS OF THE DAY OF THE ANNOUNCEMENT. This would prevent anyone from just buying one to get the transfer. Also prove that it is still working, ie connect at least once since they seem to be able to track that (a bit scary really, seems they can track ALL connections you have made, not just the last or last few)

IMO this is not a "sale" or "special offer" or even them being "nice", it is a legal obligation to continue to provide lifetime service to those who purchased it and still have the functioning box. There should be no "date expiration" on it as there is no date expiration on lifetime service, just the death of the box. The initial offer was $75 to a select group, then escalated by adding the discount on a Bolt, then finally the transfer. If they had just offered the transfer they would not have to have given out any gift cards (well maybe to those using a series 1 WITHOUT lifetime, those paying monthly if there are any). Not sure what will come of this, probably nothing for me. I'd call again but to be honest actually talking to someone who has the authority to do something like this may not be possible, even "supervisors" put you on hold while THEY call someone else, ie probably the person who can actually authorize what you are asking for.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

A message popped up on My Series 1 last night regarding this issue, so all active S1 owners should be aware of it now. It's the "important message" that pops-up the first time you press any key on the remote. I don't know why Tivo didn't do this at the same time they sent the e-mail. Some people (like me) did not receive the e-mail.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> Well the way I still see it is this. I have a Tivo with lifetime service. I've had it a long time and it works. All I want is a Tivo with lifetime service, like I have now. I'd forgo the $75 gift card. Just give me a transfer of the service, that costs them nothing. They could sell me a Bolt (heck I don't even need $75 off the Bolt, maybe $50?) Or I'll buy one on the open market and they can transfer my service. They don't have to lay out one red cent, just transfer my service, if they sell me the Bolt they may even make a bit on the sale. But my lifetime service is paid for, THAT they should take care of, just do a transfer.


I agree. But would like to point out that some people are using the S1 to control another box, like a DBS box. Those people can only use an S2, most of which already have lifetime service. So those people would benefit more with the $75 gift card.

I'd give them the choice of either lifetime service transfer or the $75 gift card.

I just hope the service actually transfers when I activate the Bolt. My S1 still has lifetime service. My Bolt arrives on Friday.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> I'd call again but to be honest actually talking to someone who has the authority to do something like this may not be possible, even "supervisors" put you on hold while THEY call someone else, ie probably the person who can actually authorize what you are asking for.


Now that you said this, I remember the Supervisor I spoke with putting me on hold, stating he needed to get approval from someone in the TiVo finance dept. before they offered me my free service transfer.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

mahermusic said:


> Now that you said this, I remember the Supervisor I spoke with putting me on hold, stating he needed to get approval from someone in the TiVo finance dept. before they offered me my free service transfer.


For fun I did try calling again, with the idea I would ask ONLY for the transfer of service, to ANY Tivo it would work on, nothing else. A lot of hassle again, listening to the July 31 thing and the activation date thing. Transfer to supervisor, supervisor going to check with others etc. Bottom line the answer was still "no". So my functioning lifetime service Tivo I've had about 10 years now becomes a glorified VCR at best. They did say they saw multiple connections in August 2016 and connection in 2015.

While this is not life altering for me, it is still very disappointing. They need to change the terms for lifetime/all in service I think. As far as I knew lifetime service meant "lifetime service for the life of the unit". But in reality (at least since the takeover of Tivo, this is all related to the switch to Rovi guide data) is "lifetime service for the life of the unit OR until we decide not to support that unit anymore OR if you don't actually connect during a period of time we specify AND do not inform you about"


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

So this is a TiVo that hasn't been used in at least the last 6 months - right?


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## jgolden (Feb 17, 2003)

Do we know how long the current offers will last? 

I would like to wait for the new Bolt to be announced on 9/15, but if they don't ship until after the offer is expired then I may have to jump now. 

I think this is a way to clear out Bolts from inventory before the new model is released and this deal will not apply on the newer models.


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## jenMORAN (Oct 18, 2005)

Does anyone else have this problem. The search by time does not have any options for movies, hd, favorite channels etc.
It does have these options on the SD menu but they do not work.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

Okay, I am confused about people still using an S1 TiVo device. Doesn't it only record NTSC, or was it patched at some point in its lifetime to record ATSC and QAM?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

RoamioJeff said:


> Okay, I am confused about people still using an S1 TiVo device. Doesn't it only record NTSC, or was it patched at some point in its lifetime to record ATSC and QAM?


It can record analog cable and from many satellite and cable STBs. Of course everything is in SD.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Can the S1s use "coupon box" type OTC converters, which require inputting decimal-ized channel numbers for ATSC broadcast channels?

What about the single tuner S2s?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

unitron said:


> Can the S1s use "coupon box" type OTC converters, which require inputting decimal-ized channel numbers for ATSC broadcast channels?
> 
> What about the single tuner S2s?


The single tuner S2s work fine with some of the "coupon box" OTA STBs, I used one for a few years. I don't think the S1s did, but I might be wrong.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> The single tuner S2s work fine with some of the "coupon box" OTA STBs, I used one for a few years. I don't think the S1s did, but I might be wrong.


To this day, we have 2 lifetimed single tuner S2s being used in this way.


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

unitron said:


> Can the S1s use "coupon box" type OTC converters, which require inputting decimal-ized channel numbers for ATSC broadcast channels?
> 
> What about the single tuner S2s?


Yes, I used my 30hr Phillips like that for awhile before I ended up adding a TV package to my cable Internet (TWC still has mostly analog channels in my zip code).

The problem is that after we run out of guide data due to the switch to Rovi and TiVo no longer supporting S1 guide data we can't even use the converter box method to make them useful. Maybe I will hook up an old video camera and use it for a random surveillance box. It won't be the best quality, but if it catches a crime on the street it has served some purpose.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

mahermusic said:


> Now that you said this, I remember the Supervisor I spoke with putting me on hold, stating he needed to get approval from someone in the TiVo finance dept. before they offered me my free service transfer.


That's what happened to me. I got the new Bolt and it had no service on it. It came with a service transfer letter but the instructions on it didn't work either. I called, was immediately transferred to a supervisor, and he said my service transfer is in the queue and it's definitely going to happen. It's "etched in stone." But it needed approval from accounting which would take a few days. I asked if he needed my TSN from my new Tivo, and he said "oh yeah!" He put it in the notes section. I'm not sure if I need to keep trying to transfer service myself or if they're going to do it.

Until then, my Bolt has partial, temporary service for 7 days. I can trick play and record individual shows using the guide, but I can't set up any Onepasses or wishlists. I appear to have GraceNote guide data, but couldn't find the copyright notice to confirm that. My program information does not have asterisks at the end of the description.

Note that the Bolt cannot connect directly to an SD TV. So it's not a great replacement for an S1. But I can do some TV shuffling within my house to get it to work. There's always the 32" Insignia at Best Buy for $120 + tax.


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> That's what happened to me. I got the new Bolt and it had no service on it. It came with a service transfer letter but the instructions on it didn't work either. I called, was immediately transferred to a supervisor, and he said my service transfer is in the queue and it's definitely going to happen. It's "etched in stone." But it needed approval from accounting which would take a few days. I asked if he needed my TSN from my new Tivo, and he said "oh yeah!" He put it in the notes section. I'm not sure if I need to keep trying to transfer service myself or if they're going to do it.
> 
> Until then, my Bolt has partial, temporary service for 7 days. I can trick play and record individual shows using the guide, but I can't set up any Onepasses or wishlists. I appear to have GraceNote guide data, but couldn't find the copyright notice to confirm that. My program information does not have asterisks at the end of the description.
> 
> Note that the Bolt cannot connect directly to an SD TV. So it's not a great replacement for an S1. But I can do some TV shuffling within my house to get it to work. There's always the 32" Insignia at Best Buy for $120 + tax.


Same experience for me yesterday. No billing department working on Sunday when I tried to get my Bolt activated, so I was told usually 24-72 hours for the approval\transfer\technical proliferation of my activation to take affect. At the same time TWC's CableCard did not pick up many channels at all. They are shipping me a tuning adapter (which I insisted I probably needed last Thursday when the CableCard arrived, as I have a Homerun Prime w/ CabeCard already and found I can't get every channel in my package without one). I think my area is only partially changed over to switched-digital and I need a tuning adapter. I iddn't get any guide or anything on my Bolt, but I could do the signal check and change channels that way and that's where I determined I am not getting tuning for each channel. Only my local channels in HD as well as the analog channels were able to be tuned. Sounds like it will be a day or two before TiVo transfers my Lifetime and I am waiting on the tuning adapter TWC says they are sending me anyway.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

TiVoJedi said:


> Same experience for me yesterday. No billing department working on Sunday when I tried to get my Bolt activated, so I was told usually 24-72 hours for the approval\transfer\technical proliferation of my activation to take affect. At the same time TWC's CableCard did not pick up many channels at all. They are shipping me a tuning adapter (which I insisted I probably needed last Thursday when the CableCard arrived, as I have a Homerun Prime w/ CabeCard already and found I can't get every channel in my package without one). I think my area is only partially changed over to switched-digital and I need a tuning adapter. I iddn't get any guide or anything on my Bolt, but I could do the signal check and change channels that way and that's where I determined I am not getting tuning for each channel. *Only my local channels in HD as well as the analog channels were able to be tuned.* Sounds like it will be a day or two before TiVo transfers my Lifetime and I am waiting on the tuning adapter TWC says they are sending me anyway.


The Bolt can't tune analog channels, it doesn't have an analog tuner. I'm sure you mean SD channels?


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> The Bolt can't tune analog channels, it doesn't have an analog tuner. I'm sure you mean SD channels?


My mistake.. yes the standard def ones

EDIT: Actually not sure that is correct because if I plug the coax into my 13" TV circa 1986 it can tune channels 1-64 and that is what the Bolt can also Tune. During guided setup it asked me what channel ESPN is on (14) and also ONTV4U (57) to find my lineup. These channels tuned in the background during this part of setup, so it appears these analog channels CAN be tuned by Bolt, right? The signal on 1-64 are not great as you see herringbone interference on some of them, especially the higher ones like where AMC is (we don't have AMC in HD which ticks me off because The Walking Dead looks awful!).


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

Just logged into tivo.com and see that the Bolt is now listed as my active TiVo device with this device option listed:

_This DVR already has All-in plan service (previously known as Product Lifetime service). No other plans are available._

TWC's tuning adapter is out for delivery today, so hopefully when I get home from work tonight it is at my doorstep, so I can get this TiVo online finally. I'm very thankful TiVo allowed the lifetime transfer. I will be saving $22.50/month that TWC is charging me so my wife can have a DVR to use. The 6-tuner Arris DVR TWC installed reboots all the time and performs updates frequently. My wife constantly complains about it.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Note, Tivo did work something out with me (the lifetime series 1 issue), I am satisfied with the result. Did require a LOT of effort/time etc but good now as far as I am concerned. I'll have to thank Chris for finding a way to do something and get it done. Good luck to all who were affected by the series 1 thing, hope you get satisfaction.


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## Roger G (Jun 11, 2006)

tommage1 said:


> Note, Tivo did work something out with me (the lifetime series 1 issue), I am satisfied with the result. Did require a LOT of effort/time etc but good now as far as I am concerned. I'll have to thank Chris for finding a way to do something and get it done. Good luck to all who were affected by the series 1 thing, hope you get satisfaction.


How were you able to get them to work with you?

This S1 transition was a cluster for me. I never got their email announcement, and the only way I found out about it was from here! Anyway, I contacted them to ask about transferring my lifetime sub to a new Bolt. The guy I talked to on 8/18 said he would ask finance to see if they could move the subscription, and he would email me by last Friday. He did email, but only to confirm that my S1 is still eligible for the $75 gift card and $129 500GB discounted Bolt.

In point of fact, I've had 7 TiVos over the last 16 years, currently have 3 Premieres and a Stream, and the S1. I've also been a beta tester with them, as recently as a year ago. So I've spent a lot of money and time with them over the last 16 years.

I bought my S1 on 1/27/2000, one week after they cut off their original policy of transferring lifetime subs from S1s to other models, and they have never honored that policy for a 7 day difference. I've also had billing issues with them, and they hid behind the 90 day cutoff policy to refund overbillings.

Anyway, i called them back last Friday to follow up. I talked to some guy who put me on hold, presumably to talk to finance. Then, he came back to me and offered me the chance to transfer the lifetime sub to a new Bolt for $179, not $129 as advertised on the S1 online page. I asked him if they were willing to lose a good 16 year customer over $50, and basically his non-response said yes. So I told him to screw himself.

Today, I expect to receive my X1 DVR and slave boxes from Comcast. I can still get to all of the content on my Premieres as I have Slingboxes attached to all of them, so I don't need them to be activated. My Stream will also be going away, but I will still get everything I want. And I cut my service charges in half (Comcast - $30/mo for 3 CableCards and TiVo - $42/mo for 3 Premieres to $30/mo for 3 X1 boxes). After I get the X1 boxes activated, TiVo goes away once and for all.

I know what some of you will say, that TiVo didn't have to do anything, and that their deal was fair. Yeah, maybe for you, but I don't have a real good feeling about TiVo under Rovi ownership. This may have turned out to be a better deal for me than anything TiVo could have done. However,there's no telling how much more I would have paid to TiVo which they are just not going to get anymore.

Now, we'll see if they actually send me my $75 gift card, since the S1 is still calling home until and if that happens.

Go ahead, hit me with your best shot.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Roger G said:


> How were you able to get them to work with you?
> 
> This S1 transition was a cluster for me. I never got their email announcement, and the only way I found out about it was from here! Anyway, I contacted them to ask about transferring my lifetime sub to a new Bolt. The guy I talked to on 8/18 said he would ask finance to see if they could move the subscription, and he would email me by last Friday. He did email, but only to confirm that my S1 is still eligible for the $75 gift card and $129 500GB discounted Bolt.
> 
> ...


Why would you not take the $180 Bolt with transferred subscription? Heck if you don't want it you could sell it. I did not get $75, otherwise my deal about the same as yours. I am happy with it.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tommage1 said:


> Why would you not take the $180 Bolt with transferred subscription? Heck if you don't want it you could sell it. I did not get $75, otherwise my deal about the same as yours. I am happy with it.


Exactly, that's still a smokin' deal dude! You go from a series one to a series six WITH your lifetime transferred over?!?!?! Geez what more do you want, Margret's first born?

Have fun with your X1 after all those promos are gone and the fees they're gonna slap all over your bill. If anything I'd go to DirecTV. All you have to do is read about the shady stuff they're pulling with down rezzing 1080i channels to 720p, etc. THAT would be the reason I'd stop using TiVo, cuz I had to go to DirecTV to get rid of Comcrap. Is FIOS in your area?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

HarperVision said:


> Exactly, that's still a smokin' deal dude! You go from a series one to a series six WITH your lifetime transferred over?!?!?! Geez what more do you want, Margret's first born?
> 
> Have fun with your X1 after all those promos are gone and the fees they're gonna slap all over your bill. If anything I'd go to DirecTV. All you have to do is read about the shady stuff they're pulling with down rezzing 1080i channels to 720p, etc. THAT would be the reason I'd stop using TiVo, cuz I had to go to DirecTV to get rid of Comcrap. Is FIOS in your area?


Yeah, I sure wish Tivo would support Uverse or Directv. Comcast is TERRIBLE, started with those fees for local channels, then regional sports, then raising them again and again. And raise rentals too, $10 a month for a cable modem? And I think $4-5 a month for a "Digital adapter" now. Fees and rentals NOT included in their "2 year price lock deal", they can raise or add them whenever they want, if you cancel you eat the early termination fee. Additional outlet fees, whole home HD fees, blah blah blah fees. And now the compression, has caused a lot of issues with my Tivos. Very sad, with all the streaming/Netflix/Amazon/Hulu etc you'd THINK they'd try to offer some better prices to compete, instead it seems they want to suck dry the people who stay/have no choice.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

Roger G said:


> Then, he came back to me and offered me the chance to transfer the lifetime sub to a new Bolt for $179, not $129 as advertised on the S1 online page.


Dude, that was a great deal.

Cannot figure out what your issue is.


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

RoamioJeff said:


> Dude, that was a great deal.
> 
> Cannot figure out what your issue is.


Probably the cognitive bias known as "anchoring," where because $130 was the original price in mind, $180 was outrageous. On the other hand, if he'd called up thinking the price was $230 and been told that for him it would cost $180, he'd have thought it was an excellent deal. In neither case is the actual value of the unit + lifetime playing a role.


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## Ira Bahr (Oct 1, 2015)

Just a quick comment to clear up any confusion.

The $129 Bolt offer is predicated on a new on-going subscription. The service transfer, which offers a $179 Bolt AND the gift card provides the customer with a net $104 Bolt with lifetime service (which -- as some have pointed out, is kind of an awesome deal).

Separately, many thanks to all of you who've been so empathetic with what we're trying to accomplish on the gift card offer vis a vis active boxes.

Hope everyone's enjoying their weekend!

Ira


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

Ira Bahr said:


> Just a quick comment to clear up any confusion.
> 
> The $129 Bolt offer is predicated on a new on-going subscription. The service transfer, which offers a $179 Bolt AND the gift card provides the customer with a net $104 Bolt with lifetime service (which -- as some have pointed out, is kind of an awesome deal).
> 
> ...


Hi Ira,

Could an active Series 1 user that wishes to wait 10 days, call and perhaps upgrade w/ free Lifetime transfer to any (possible) NEWER Bolt offerings, that may/may not be available on the 15th of this month, INSTEAD of upgrading w/ free Lifetime transfer to the current 4-tuner Bolt?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Ira Bahr said:


> Separately, many thanks to all of you who've been so empathetic with what we're trying to accomplish on the gift card offer vis a vis active boxes.
> 
> Hope everyone's enjoying their weekend!
> 
> Ira


Thanks Ira for stopping by and taking the time to post here. I really appreciate the renewed participation by TiVo in this forum.

I don't have an active S1 any longer but would have appreciated TiVo's offer if I did!

Scott


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Said many times, Tivo very generous and supportive to it customers. Kudos!

Hard to see that kind of dedication from any company nowadays.


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

Anyone try and get the Bolt + w/ a Tivo 1 transfer?


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

As expected, tivo phone lines were very busy today. Trying the special Series 1 phone number
had me waiting over 1 1/2 hrs. without a result. After dinner, tried Series 1 phone number again just 30 mins. before the end of tivo online hours and got through. But the agent did not have any knowledge about these offers.

Just got off the phone with a tivo supervisor. Because his system was locking him out the super was unable to investigate my series 1. I received a case number and a promise that someone would contact me with the offers.

He indicated that the TiVo Bolt + isn't part of any of the series 1 offers.

He also said that guide info would still be available for an additional day or two.


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## section128drunk (May 6, 2007)

Wish I would have known hooking up my 2 lifetime series 1s for 5 minutes this year would have put $150 in my pocket


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## jgolden (Feb 17, 2003)

On the 15th I saw that my Series 1 updated program data thru the 25th. I just checked (9/18) and it successfully made the daily call and completed the update (for a change) but the program data is still only thru the 25th, so I think my series 1 may not make it to the 29th.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

leswar said:


> As expected, tivo phone lines were very busy today. Trying the special Series 1 phone number
> had me waiting over 1 1/2 hrs. without a result. After dinner, tried Series 1 phone number again just 30 mins. before the end of tivo online hours and got through. But the agent did not have any knowledge about these offers.
> 
> Just got off the phone with a tivo supervisor. Because his system was locking him out the super was unable to investigate my series 1. I received a case number and a promise that someone would contact me with the offers.
> ...


I think the Bolt + is part of the series 1 offers, at least I was told it was. I was told it is sold with the $19.99/month fee, but then you call when you get it and they'll transfer the lifetime service.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

RMSko said:


> I think the Bolt + is part of the series 1 offers, at least I was told it was.* I was told it is sold with the $19.99/month fee, *but then you call when you get it and they'll transfer the lifetime service.


When I activated mine I was given options for $14.99/month, $149/year or $549.99 for All In. I didn't see a $19.99 option.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

mahermusic said:


> Do you have an Series 1 that is active right now? Did you receive the email for the $75 Visa gift card? If so, call the number in the email. It may take speaking to a Supervisor, but they will offer to transfer the ACTIVE Series 1's lifetime to a discounted 500gb or 1000gb Bolt, and you can still keep the $75 gift card. I, and others in this forum, have already received this un-advertised deal.


I have 2 that are calling in daily. I just called Tivo to get 2 Bolts and transfer.

The answer is: No transfer. Had to be before Jan 2000.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

Ira Bahr said:


> Just a quick comment to clear up any confusion.
> 
> The $129 Bolt offer is predicated on a new on-going subscription. The service transfer, which offers a $179 Bolt AND the gift card provides the customer with a net $104 Bolt with lifetime service (which -- as some have pointed out, is kind of an awesome deal).
> 
> Ira


Apparently this is not getting thru to all of your sale people.
I called tonight and I was told there was no transfer of any kind on either of my Series 1 units unless they were bought before Jan 2000. The sales person "asked a supervisor" and was told there are no transfers.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

n6161h said:


> Apparently this is not getting thru to all of your sale people.
> I called tonight and I was told there was no transfer of any kind on either of my Series 1 units unless they were bought before Jan 2000. The sales person "asked a supervisor" and was told there are no transfers.


Ask for arbitration.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

n6161h said:


> Apparently this is not getting thru to all of your sale people.
> I called tonight and I was told there was no transfer of any kind on either of my Series 1 units unless they were bought before Jan 2000. The sales person "asked a supervisor" and was told there are no transfers.


Keep calling. You got a bad CSR.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

n6161h said:


> The answer is: No transfer. Had to be before Jan 2000.


I was also told that by the front-line person. I asked for a supervisor (as many others have) and was able to transfer the lifetime from two S1s to two bolts (as many others have). You need to push to a higher level person, or try again another day.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

bkc56 said:


> I was also told that by the front-line person. I asked for a supervisor (as many others have) and was able to transfer the lifetime from two S1s to two bolts (as many others have). You need to push to a higher level person, or try again another day.


The guy I talked to knew nothing about how to handle Series 1 customers, even though I called the Series 1 number. After being put on hold for 15 minutes while he talked to the supervisor the answer from the supervisor was no transfer unless it was purchased before Jan 2000.

I had not seen the comments from Ira Bahr about transfers when I called, but I did mention what others have been offered and he was pretty insistent; putting me on hold for another 5 minutes to check with his supervisor again. So there is definitely a disconnect between the reps, their superiors and executive management.

By the time I got home tonight it was too late for today. I'll try again tomorrow and I'll point them to the comments from Ira.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

n6161h said:


> The guy I talked to knew nothing about how to handle Series 1 customers, even though I called the Series 1 number.


As best as I can tell the series 1 "number" does not send you to specific people, it just cuts to the front of the line. You get to someone quicker, but it's just the normal front-line support.

And don't have THEM talk to a supervisor. Tell them YOU want to talk to a supervisor. Then you explain clearly that you know what the standard offer is, you've seen it documented on this forum by multiple people who received it (100% confirmed by several posters, including myself for 2 bolts/transfers). You're not ASKING them what they can do for you, you're TELLING them that you know what the standard deal is and that you want the same thing.

It was amusing when I called because the front-line rep was very clear that transfers would only work for pre 2000 units and there was nothing more she could do at her level. The "at her level" was a clear hint. So I said I understood the limitations, asked to be transferred to a supervisor, and thanked her for her time. The little dance was very cordial and we both knew that the other person knew what was really going on.


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## bobwojo (Jan 9, 2011)

astrohip said:


> Series 1 users received about 15 years from a consumer electronics item. If that ain't "commensurate with investment" I don't know what is.
> 
> You weren't even using them! Why do you care that they're going from unused to unusable? Were you really going to plug in AND USE a device that only records analog SD?
> 
> Why? What would you do with the extra time?


Have more time to explore my options!


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## jssmcarlo (Jul 21, 2015)

My series 1 ran out of guide data yesterday at 6 pm. I recorded one more show on it yesterday and watched it last night. Today, I unplugged it after 15 years. &#128546;


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

jssmcarlo said:


> My series 1 ran out of guide data yesterday at 6 pm. I recorded one more show on it yesterday and watched it last night. Today, I unplugged it after 15 years.


Those murderers! They murdered it!


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

RoamioJeff said:


> Keep calling. You got a bad CSR.


2nd call took 2 different supervisors and 50 minutes on hold, before someone knew what I was talking about. But I finally have 2 new Bolts on the way with transfers authorized. It should not have been this hard.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

n6161h said:


> But I finally have 2 new Bolts on the way with transfers authorized.


Congratulations!

Customer support can be universally inefficient. But success comes to those who are persistent.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

n6161h said:


> But I finally have 2 new Bolts on the way with transfers authorized.


Good job!!

My call to purchase and transfer lifetime was close to 90 minutes by the time it was all done. Lots of short holds and other stuff going on. I don't understand why it took so long, but since it worked I wasn't going to complain.


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## n6161h (Jan 10, 2002)

jssmcarlo said:


> My series 1 ran out of guide data yesterday at 6 pm. I recorded one more show on it yesterday and watched it last night. Today, I unplugged it after 15 years. 😢


Mine ran out early too, 6AM on the 27th.

It's sad seeing "to be announced" on every channel on every hour :-(

It would have been nice if they could have sent a final patch to disable the nag screen. I'd like to keep using them for the 30 minute live buffer on some of my old TVs. (or hack buffer for a longer back-log.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Do you think I have any chance of getting a supervisor to agree to transfer my lifetime to a new box? 

I have a Series 1 with lifetime since November 2002. I've had it working off on over the years, but the last few years it has been mostly working until Nov. 2015 when we sold our house and put 80% of our stuff in storage including my series 1 TiVo untill construction projects at our current house are complete. This has taken a lot longer then we thought although we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. After completion and when we get our stuff out of storage I did plan to start using my Series 1 again. Of course that really won't be of much use now.

I called TiVo to see what they would do for me. I've only called once. No go on transferring lifetime to a new box. The supervisor offered me a free 4 tuner Premiere with no service so monthly/yearly charges would apply or lifetime for (I think) $200. After talking for some time she did agree to getting me $75 off a Bolt if I was interested.

Clearly my TiVo did not make any calls between Jan. 1. and July 31 and I never received an email.

Do you think I have any chance of getting a supervisor to agree to transfer my lifetime to a new box?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

n6161h said:


> 2nd call took 2 different supervisors and 50 minutes on hold, before someone knew what I was talking about. But I finally have 2 new Bolts on the way with transfers authorized. It should not have been this hard.





bkc56 said:


> Good job!!
> 
> My call to purchase and transfer lifetime was close to 90 minutes by the time it was all done. Lots of short holds and other stuff going on. I don't understand why it took so long, but since it worked I wasn't going to complain.


I don't suppose either of you (or anyone else) remembers who the supervisor was that they had success transferring lifetime was?


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## jgolden (Feb 17, 2003)

"I don't suppose either of you (or anyone else) remembers who the supervisor was that they had success transferring lifetime was?"

I talked to Kenny, then Christopher (a supervisor) and they passed it to a Advanced Escalation Specialist. I was told that I could get the lifetime transferred to a Bolt or Bolt+. There was no discount on the Bolt+ so I chose the Bolt (so I could have OTA if I latter need it)


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

Just received my $75 TiVo gift card today in the mail from the Series 1 sunsetting, and just unplugged my Series 1 a few minutes ago after pretty much non-stop usage since 12/31/01. We're going out to dinner with the $75 card and celebrating almost 15 years of great service our Series 1 has given us!


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

My question is: Should the old S1's be cremated or buried? Maybe they should be harvested for organs first though.


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

So since my call of 9/15 I received an email last week from tivo with a case number and confirmation that I could transfer PLS to a bolt by calling in and requesting a supervisor.

I decided to place my order today before we get hit by Hurricane Matthew because of warnings about power outages of 2 weeks in Vero Beach. Looks like we may be ground zero. Don't know how long or bad this may end up being.

Anyway I was connected with a nice supervisor named "Matthew". He asked how my day was going. Haha, I let him know about his hurricane namesake. We bonded over all that.

I was ready to bite the bullet on the Bolt+ but he indicated that the Bolt+ is not part of the offer. So I went with the 500 GB bolt for $174.99 (Save the money upgrade the HD later). 

He was ready to finalize the order but placed me on hold to check on something. He recommended that I wait to place the order until after the hurricane and its aftermath. Tivo can't guarantee safe shipping. Then he said he would (follow-up) call me once a day starting on the 13th until he reaches me. 

Update: Apparent wobble to the north which could mean a more seaward path for the center. Let's hope. Signing off now to disconnect electronics.


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## dmayspa (May 19, 2006)

It took perseverance but I finally got my Series 1's transferred. My 2 new bolts came today with service transfer letters. Can I do the transfer online as the letter mentions or do I have to call?


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

I had to call to get it done. Because it's a special case (not a supported lifetime transfer method) it requires a support person to make it happen.


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

yup. I tried online and waited a couple days. Didn't transfer. So a call to Tivo and a couple hours later all was good. They had said it could take 48 to 72 hours.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

So, if you didn't connect between some set of dates retroactively then you can't get any offers? That sux... Rovi/Tivo.


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## dmayspa (May 19, 2006)

bkc56 said:


> I had to call to get it done. Because it's a special case (not a supported lifetime transfer method) it requires a support person to make it happen.


How long did it take for it to happen? I called last Saturday and 3 biz days later not done yet. Did you have to take any additional steps? When I called they didn't ask for the new TSNs. Today I logged on to the website and saw it said "researching" by the status. I added a note with the TSN numbers of the new bolts.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

I have not received any information from TiVo. I have a Series I (Pioneer with DVD) and another one from, I think TiVo.

What I have noticed very recently is that series I have on my PC that I transfer to the TiVo are no longer treated as a series. Specifically, I have eleven years of Mash on my PC. Previously, when I transferred a number of episodes from my PC to my TiVo they would show up in a single group which I could then drill down to see the individual episodes. That no longer happens. Each episode is treated as an individual program that is not part of a series.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

saberman said:


> I have not received any information from TiVo. I have a Series I (Pioneer with DVD) and another one from, I think TiVo.
> 
> What I have noticed very recently is that series I have on my PC that I transfer to the TiVo are no longer treated as a series. Specifically, I have eleven years of Mash on my PC. Previously, when I transferred a number of episodes from my PC to my TiVo they would show up in a single group which I could then drill down to see the individual episodes. That no longer happens. Each episode is treated as an individual program that is not part of a series.


Any of the TiVos with DVD players built in are Series 2 TiVos not Series 1 TiVos. Regarding the way your Mash shows are showing up, I believe that is a setting change, I do not have my older TiVos on right now to verify perhaps someone else will remember.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

saberman said:


> What I have noticed very recently is that series I have on my PC that I transfer to the TiVo are no longer treated as a series. Specifically, I have eleven years of Mash on my PC. Previously, when I transferred a number of episodes from my PC to my TiVo they would show up in a single group which I could then drill down to see the individual episodes. That no longer happens. Each episode is treated as an individual program that is not part of a series.


I believe this is related to the Rovi guide data change since the shows that you've saved have Tribune series/program ID's. Are these still in TiVo format?

Scott


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> Any of the TiVos with DVD players built in are Series 2 TiVos not Series 1 TiVos. Regarding the way your Mash shows are showing up, I believe that is a setting change, I do not have my older TiVos on right now to verify perhaps someone else will remember.


Your are correct it is a Series 2. However it is set to group and shows that were recorded on the TiVo show up in groups.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> I believe this is related to the Rovi guide data change since the shows that you've saved have Tribune series/program ID's. Are these still in TiVo format?
> 
> Scott


They are in mpg format and have a corresponding txt file. They are made available to the TiVo via pyTiVo. If I look at the TiVo via kmttg they show as grouped.
The videos were ripped from DVDs years ago. The corresponding txt files were obtained via MetaGenerator which pulls descriptions from various online databases.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

saberman said:


> The corresponding txt files were obtained via MetaGenerator which pulls descriptions from various online databases.


As alluded to, those data bases have the standard programId. Tivo does not use or recognize the standard programId anymore since their takeover by Rovi.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

saberman said:


> They are in mpg format and have a corresponding txt file. They are made available to the TiVo via pyTiVo. If I look at the TiVo via kmttg they show as grouped.
> The videos were ripped from DVDs years ago. The corresponding txt files were obtained via MetaGenerator which pulls descriptions from various online databases.


There's a new version of MetaGenerator that's being tested for generating Rovi-compatible metadata. If you want these to group together, you'll have to generate new metadata txt files for them.

Scott


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

Wil said:


> As alluded to, those data bases have the standard programId. Tivo does not use or recognize the standard programId anymore since their takeover by Rovi.


Then why do programs recorded years ago and left on the TiVo still get grouped? The meta data in the .TiVo file has not changed but it is recognized as episode grouping.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> There's a new version of MetaGenerator that's being tested for generating Rovi-compatible metadata. If you want these to group together, you'll have to generate new metadata txt files for them.
> 
> Scott


What I need is the difference in the txt file format so I can reformat all of the txt files. I am not going to go through downloading eleven years worth of episode descriptions again.

I am also a little confused. The programs that have been on the TiVo for a long time are still grouped properly even though the meta data in the TiVo files has not changed. If I download an old video from the TiVo using kmttg, but save it on the PC as a .TiVo file (instead of separating into an mpg and a txt file) and then have the TiVo pull it back using pyTiVo will it still be grouped? If so, it would appear that the problem is not in the txt file format but in the way pyTiVo combines the mpg and txt file into a TiVo format for sending to the TiVo.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

saberman said:


> What I need is the difference in the txt file format so I can reformat all of the txt files. I am not going to go through downloading eleven years worth of episode descriptions again..


I supposed you could just change the seriesId and programId in all the txt files to the new ones but I'm definitely not an expert. Here's an example of the differences for the same episode of Supergirl before and after the Rovi guide data change.

Before:
seriesId : SH02185451
programId : EP021854510002

After:
seriesId : SH0331260538
programId : EP0331260538-0335978506



saberman said:


> I am also a little confused. The programs that have been on the TiVo for a long time are still grouped properly even though the meta data in the TiVo files has not changed. If I download an old video from the TiVo using kmttg, but save it on the PC as a .TiVo file (instead of separating into an mpg and a txt file) and then have the TiVo pull it back using pyTiVo will it still be grouped? If so, it would appear that the problem is not in the txt file format but in the way pyTiVo combines the mpg and txt file into a TiVo format for sending to the TiVo.


The shows don't exist as a TiVo file on the TiVo so there is no metadata in them. That's a format purely created for downloading to your PC. The update to accommodate the Rovi metadata either created a mapping for the old Id's or it actually updated them to the new Id's as part of the guide data change which allows the existing shows and new shows recorded after the change to group together This is why it was such a major change as my understanding is that at least 1 of those Id's (if not both) was created/"owned" by Tribune and TiVo wasn't allowed to use them after their contract with Tribune was up. I seem to recall some comments here that this was going to be almost an impossible task for them.

Scott


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> I supposed you could just change the seriesId and programId in all the txt files to the new ones but I'm definitely not an expert. Here's an example of the differences for the same episode of Supergirl before and after the Rovi guide data change.
> 
> Before:
> seriesId : SH02185451
> ...


What I don't understand is that I have three phantom transfers grouped under MASH but if I transfer videos with the same seriesId they don't group. The txt files contain (Pilot):

isEpisode : true
seriesId : SH002710
episodeNumber : 1

So where is the mapping table of old seriesId's to new seriesID's?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

saberman said:


> What I don't understand is that I have three phantom transfers grouped under MASH but if I transfer videos with the same seriesId they don't group. The txt files contain (Pilot):
> 
> isEpisode : true
> seriesId : SH002710
> ...


Not sure what you mean about phantom transfers grouped under MASH. As far as I know that mapping/migration was only during the update but perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about this will respond.

Scott


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

Phantom transfers are videos that are shown as transferring but really aren't. They have the blue dot next to them. If you click on them and select stop transfer nothing happens. If you click on them and try to view them they say the video is empty.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> I supposed you could just change the seriesId and programId in all the txt files to the new ones but I'm definitely not an expert. Here's an example of the differences for the same episode of Supergirl before and after the Rovi guide data change.
> 
> Before:
> seriesId : SH02185451
> ...


I have been downloading shows from one of my TiVos for over ten years. Now if I pull them back to the TiVo they won't be grouped? That is insane. The TiVo should map the seriesId to the corresponding programid when it pulls the video.

BTW, where is the description of a show stored on the TiVo if it is not in the meta data for the video file? Is there a separate database with program descriptions?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

saberman said:


> BTW, where is the description of a show stored on the TiVo if it is not in the meta data for the video file? Is there a separate database with program descriptions?


You'll have to find someone who knows something about TiVo's file system to answer that question. The MFS areas have an application region and a media region. I don't know if the application regions store the information about the shows (video and audio) that are stored in the media region or if they do store them in a database.

Scott


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

rainwater said:


> The tricky part is the lifetime service compared to other companies that actually post EOL schedules. Also, TiVo still gets some revenue from some of those users making it more complex. But I suspect the real reason is they themselves have no idea how long they want to support each device.


Yeah, being in technology work myself, I understand that supporting older architectures is a pain over time.
However, Tivo sold 'lifetime' service - so they have the contractual and moral obligation to continue to provide the functional service, even if they realize now that 'lifetime' may have been a bad arrangement to make. We've seen other companies (AT&T) struggle with the contractual commitments they have made to customers (Unlimited Data). Its no easy task.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Minok said:


> ... so they have the contractual and moral obligation ...


People need to stop living in the fantasy land that has public companies operating under some undefined moral code.

Companies operate under laws nothing more and in the USA public companies are legally obligated to put the financial interests of their investors (stock holders) ahead of all others.

Unfortunately if screwing over some customers is in the best financial interests of the investors then that is what a company should be doing. Thankfully normally screwing over customers is clearly not in the best financial interests of the investors and is avoided.


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## JDietz (May 23, 2002)

Okay, so on phone with TIVO for a loooong time this morning to get my transfer done (Case 06410436). Was told FIRMLY "NO" as my Tivo did not connect during the Jan-July period this year. I was under impression that the timeline was only relevant to the gift card...? Anyone have any contacts @tivo I should reach out to, was dealing with Paul (Advanced Escalation Specialist/Supervisor) and was told he was as high as I could go. Another thing to note for those whom waited this long is that the current promo for the bolt 1 TB is $149 www.tivo.com/2016Holiday#/thanksgiving2016 and via our special upgrade link it would be $199...I'd fight for that $50 at this point since I lost out on the $75 gift card.

Otherwise anyone left for a class action?

James


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The gift card was the only thing they offered. They didn't offer to transfer the lifetime service to a newer model. There were some people who were able to call in and get approval for transfer of service to a new model, but those were only people who were eligible for the gift card (connected during that 7-month period). If your S1 did not connect during that period, they consider you to have abandoned your unit and they feel they don't owe you anything because if you weren't using your unit, then you haven't lost anything by it no longer working.


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## JDietz (May 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> they feel they don't owe you anything because if you weren't using your unit, then you haven't lost anything by it no longer working.


- Have to disagree here...I was under contract with Satellite for a 2 year period...that doesn't mean I abandoned the TIVO forever, after all, a LIFETIME service contract should provide peace of mind that it will be there when you decide to come back to it...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

JDietz said:


> - Have to disagree here...I was under contract with Satellite for a 2 year period...that doesn't mean I abandoned the TIVO forever, after all, a LIFETIME service contract should provide peace of mind that it will be there when you decide to come back to it...


TiVo in the past has had big problems using the word Lifetime to define their service without monthly/yearly charges, that why I think they change the word *Lifetime* to* All-In*. I would guess that anyone with a 13 or more year old electronics does not have much of a case against TiVo as they did take care of people (3500 of them) that were using the old Series 1. The Series 1 had almost no value before this so giving the users $75 was not such a bad deal. You can take this to the next level if you want to get a lawyer, but IMHO there is no point.


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## JDietz (May 23, 2002)

lessd said:


> You can take this to the next level if you want to get a lawyer, but IMHO there is no point.


Appears that is what TIVO wants since the best I can get is a reduced refurb TIVO Premiere, a unit that was introduced in 2010 and would already be end-of-life. I think my request for current equipment, (i.e. Bolt) at current pricing TiVo DVR Holiday Sale Whiteout Event 2016 - Buy Now to Save. with lifetime transfer is not too much to ask. I'll start a new thread on any Series 1 users left hanging in the wind by TIVO that want in on any legal action.

James


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Good luck with that. Regardless of the term "lifetime" being used there is still a depreciating value to the asset. Since it's nearly 17 years old I seriously doubt you'll be able to get any more of a settlement then what TiVo already offered. In fact I doubt you'll even be able to get a lawyer to take the case as their fees will likely be in excess of any damages you'd receive. Not to mention the TOS you agreed to when you purchased the lifetime service limit you to binding arbitration, so you can't even really sue.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Sorry folks, but I just disagree with this idea that a lifetimed Series 1 TiVo is only worth $75. Yes, that may be what it goes for on eBay. But to an owner who is perfectly satisfied with its abilities, it is worth at least what the simplest lifetimed replacement box would cost (absent one's perhaps peculiar, specific love for a Series 1 box). Just as a 10-year old car is worth more than what the Blue Book value is, to the current owner--it is worth saving the cost of a replacement.

IMHO, if TiVo wants to, in my mind, break its contract to provide purchased lifetime service, that is fine (and, in fact, legal), as long as TiVo provides a commensurate alternative--and a $75 gift card isn't it, for current owners (whether currently using their Series 1 boxes or not, as I'm not aware that current, on-going use is a TiVo contract requirement) who had no intention to move from their current platform (and, in fact, this latter provision itself actually is irrelevant). 

As to to legal cases, as noted above, the problem is the small $ amount at issue, for a lawyer to take the case apart from as a favor (absent the controlling contract having a provision awarding attorneys' fees to the winning party). But that doesn't mean that each and every affected owner couldn't bring an arbitration case him/herself--in the end, the case really comes down to a contract and common sense argument, and there is no requirement that a lawyer be hired for that, as a general matter, especially in arbitration. And this actually cuts both ways: does TiVo itself really want to incur the expense, including lawyers' fees, let alone the bad press, defending case after case? Even just 1 or 2 hours of its lawyers' time would be more than what TiVo could settle for.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> People need to stop living in the fantasy land that has public companies operating under some undefined moral code.
> 
> Companies operate under laws nothing more and in the USA public companies are legally obligated to put the financial interests of their investors (stock holders) ahead of all others.
> 
> Unfortunately if screwing over some customers is in the best financial interests of the investors then that is what a company should be doing. Thankfully normally screwing over customers is clearly not in the best financial interests of the investors and is avoided.


Yes, you've dealt with the "moral" half. But TiVo still has contractual obligations, and that is where it may have serious issue. And if TiVo chooses to ignore that issue, that is where the consumer indeed has an alternative--filing a lawsuit or an arbitration claim.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Not to mention the TOS you agreed to when you purchased the lifetime service limit you to binding arbitration, so you can't even really sue.


Well, in actuality, bringing an arbitration claim is the effective equivalent of suing--it's just brought before an arbitration body rather than a court.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry folks, but I just disagree with this idea that a lifetimed Series 1 TiVo is only worth $75. Yes, that may be what it goes for on eBay. But to an owner who is perfectly satisfied with its abilities, it is worth at least what the simplest lifetimed replacement box would cost (absent one's perhaps peculiar, specific love for a Series 1 box).


When you can replace it with an S2 with lifetime from eBay for less than $75, I thought that was a very fair offer.

Scott


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

It's not enough you create an entire thread about "legal options", you take over this one too? 



Mikeguy said:


> Well, in actuality, bringing an arbitration claim is the effective equivalent of suing--it's just brought before an arbitration body rather than a court.


Well, in actuality, it's not. But why don't you try whatever you feel would work best for you, and report back.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

astrohip said:


> Well, in actuality, it's not. But why don't you try whatever you feel would work best for you, and report back.


Sorry, but it actually is, in terms of the process and what one is doing, what I was getting at. And thanks for the invite, but I'm a lowly Series 2 guy.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry folks, but I just disagree with this idea that a lifetimed Series 1 TiVo is only worth $75. Yes, that may be what it goes for on eBay. But to an owner who is perfectly satisfied with its abilities, it is worth at least what the simplest lifetimed replacement box would cost (absent one's perhaps peculiar, specific love for a Series 1 box). Just as a 10-year old car is worth more than what the Blue Book value is, to the current owner--it is worth saving the cost of a replacement.
> 
> IMHO, if TiVo wants to, in my mind, break its contract to provide purchased lifetime service, that is fine (and, in fact, legal), as long as TiVo provides a commensurate alternative--and a $75 gift card isn't it, for current owners (whether currently using their Series 1 boxes or not, as I'm not aware that current, on-going use is a TiVo contract requirement) who had no intention to move from their current platform (and, in fact, this latter provision itself actually is irrelevant).


I'm sorry, but the only way to properly measure the value of something is to determine what it costs to buy a functionally-equivalent replacement, or to determine what someone would pay to purchase it. So while it's nice that you placed some kind of sentimental value on your lifetimed S1, that doesn't increase its actual value. And as long as lifetimed S2 devices are available for $75 or less, then nobody can realistically complain that $75 was not a fair offer for their S1, because the S2 is much better and much faster (not to mention there are dual-tuner S2s).


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm sorry, but the only way to properly measure the value of something is to determine what it costs to buy a functionally-equivalent replacement, or to determine what someone would pay to purchase it. So while it's nice that you placed some kind of sentimental value on your lifetimed S1, that doesn't increase its actual value. And as long as lifetimed S2 devices are available for $75 or less, then nobody can realistically complain that $75 was not a fair offer for their S1, because the S2 is much better and much faster (not to mention there are dual-tuner S2s).


I don't necessarily disagree with this, although it still feels "off" to me. Also, should someone be forced to buy used replacement equipment off of eBay, where one has no idea whatsoever as to the condition/treatment of it? Very much seems a forced dive into a void. For public relations if nothing else, I think that TiVo should have offered customers the cash or half off (with no subscription charge) a (possibly refurbed) Roamio cable/OTA device, a Roamio basic.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with this, although it still feels "off" to me. Also, should someone be forced to buy used replacement equipment off of eBay, where one has no idea whatsoever as to the condition/treatment of it? Very much seems a forced dive into a void. For public relations if nothing else, I think that TiVo should have offered customers the cash or half off (with no subscription charge) a (possibly refurbed) Roamio cable/OTA device, a Roamio basic.


Getting into a car accident outlines how the business world looks at the value of used stuff. Even if the other person is 100% at fault you will get nothing other than the so called book value of your car, nothing at all for your time to replace it or the risk you take in buying another used car. Even worse is having a home fire without having guaranteed replacement cost on personal property. My guess is you would have a hard time getting an insurance company even give you $75 for a 15+/- year old Series 1.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> Getting into a car accident outlines how the business world looks at the value of used stuff. Even if the other person is 100% at fault you will get nothing other than the so called book value of your car, nothing at all for your time to replace it or the risk you take in buying another used car. Even worse is having a home fire without having guaranteed replacement cost on personal property. My guess is you would have a hard time getting an insurance company even give you $75 for a 15+/- year old Series 1.


Yep. And that's just wrong, IMHO.  I guess that's why the guaranteed replacement cost option exists--of course, at greater cost.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TiVo T&C states that you can't open the TiVo box and still have any coverage. I know that TiVo has not enforced this over the years but if one takes this Series 1 that been running for 13 or more years and has never changed out the drive you may have some type of case, I don't think any drive could last over 13 years without replacement so I don't think many of the 3500 Series 1 users can say they never opened their Series 1 Box (or the box has not been open if purchase used). The dust would fill up any Series 1 unit running 13 years. TiVo not going to give in because than all 3500 Series 1 users would want the same deal.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

lessd said:


> I know that TiVo has not enforced this over the years but if one takes this Series 1 that been running for 13 or more years and has never changed out the drive you may have some type of case, I don't think any drive could last over 13 years without replacement so I don't think many of the 3500 Series 1 users can say they never opened their Series 1 Box (or the box has not been open if purchase used).


Well, I'll let you know in a year and three-quarters: a Series 2 at a bit over 11 years here, original drive, in continual use since then, never opened, working just fine.  (But, yes, the TiVo rep. I spoke to recently was surprised.)


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## BertPre (Nov 19, 2016)

I have a Series I that is still operating / original drive.. never open... bought it in April of 2000 I believe (yes... 17 YEARS). It has not been able to connect to the Tivo service since mid 2008, but it still has movies on it and continues to run. I believe a power surge after the meter was yanked due to a fire eventually led to the inability to connect several years later (surge damaged a lot of electronics including microwave ovens, a computer, etc). But I still use it to store old movies I dumped off my 2001 series 2 to free up space.


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## Jim Bodwin (Jul 13, 2017)

I switched to Uverse a long time ago and stored my Tivo Series 1 with lifetime service. I am now switching to Comcast and decided to use my old Tivo on a second TV. I was surprised to find out that Tivo had pulled the plug on my "lifetime". I realize that some people got a special deal about 6 months ago. Has anybody had any success since then? I'd be willing to buy a new Tivo if I could transfer the lifetime service to it but they don't seem to be willing to do that anymore - I called customer "service" and got no help at all.

I do have a contract with Tivo that they are not honoring so they are not on firm ground here at all. Also, since I never sent me the "modified terms of service" that forces arbitration I am not bound by that so I have a number of options that I'm willing to pursue but I'd prefer to keep things simple.

Anybody out there have any advice on how to settle this in a friendly fashion?


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

Jim Bodwin said:


> I switched to Uverse a long time ago and stored my Tivo Series 1 with lifetime service. I am now switching to Comcast and decided to use my old Tivo on a second TV. I was surprised to find out that Tivo had pulled the plug on my "lifetime". I realize that some people got a special deal about 6 months ago. Has anybody had any success since then? I'd be willing to buy a new Tivo if I could transfer the lifetime service to it but they don't seem to be willing to do that anymore - I called customer "service" and got no help at all.
> 
> I do have a contract with Tivo that they are not honoring so they are not on firm ground here at all. Also, since I never sent me the "modified terms of service" that forces arbitration I am not bound by that so I have a number of options that I'm willing to pursue but I'd prefer to keep things simple.
> 
> Anybody out there have any advice on how to settle this in a friendly fashion?


At this point, I would just let it go. 17 Years is an eternity for technology, and even if you prevail (at what cost?), what is today's market value of your Series 1? You can always call them up and plead your case as an exception ... they might offer you something off a new TiVo. They might not, as the window has closed.

The simple pursuit would be to just purchase a current model, or a different solution for your entertainment needs.

Good luck.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Jim Bodwin said:


> I switched to Uverse a long time ago and stored my Tivo Series 1 with lifetime service. I am now switching to Comcast and decided to use my old Tivo on a second TV. I was surprised to find out that Tivo had pulled the plug on my "lifetime". I realize that some people got a special deal about 6 months ago. Has anybody had any success since then? I'd be willing to buy a new Tivo if I could transfer the lifetime service to it but they don't seem to be willing to do that anymore - I called customer "service" and got no help at all.
> I do have a contract with Tivo that they are not honoring so they are not on firm ground here at all. Also, since I never sent me the "modified terms of service" that forces arbitration I am not bound by that so I have a number of options that I'm willing to pursue but I'd prefer to keep things simple.
> Anybody out there have any advice on how to settle this in a friendly fashion?


Not that it will help you, but the CFPB has introduced a new regulation that will remove all forced arbitration. Not yet law, but it could be.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

You could try calling again and ask for a supervisor. TiVo did a lot to help people with Series 1 units that were still in use at the time. They considered that if a box was not connected in over a year that the box was no longer in service and they did not offer anything for those people. 

They also switched over to a new guide data provider that the old Series 1 boxes wouldn't be able to support so that's one of the reasons why they shut off service for these old boxes.


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## Jim Bodwin (Jul 13, 2017)

How many years I've had the Tivo and its current depreciated value are not relevant here. The contract said "lifetime" (not 17 years). And it did not give Tivo the option to buy me out for the depreciated value. Tivo certainly understands this - and they corrected their error in subsequent "Lifetime" or "All-In" contracts.

Was it a good deal for me? Of course it was. But that doesn't change the fact that they have a contractual obligation to Series 1 Lifetime subscribers.

On the "forced arbitration" question: the CFPB is trying to make forced arbitration unenforceable in contracts for consumer products. That would be a good thing but it isn't needed here since the original "lifetime service" contract had no forced arbitration clause. Neither party in a contract can unilaterally change the terms of the contract so there is no forced arbitration here.


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## Jim Bodwin (Jul 13, 2017)

Tivo didn't have to make this change. They could have paid both the old guide data provider (for Series 1 users) and the new guide data provider (for everyone else). So this was strictly an economic decision. They got a lot of Series 1 customers to go away with just a $75 gift card. And those who complained louder got an offer for a discounted Tivo plus a one-time transfer of the Lifetime service. They probably did the math and that we less expensive than running both the old and new guide data services.

What doesn't make sense to me is their arbitrary "if you haven't used it in this time period then it is dead" decision. Clearly there are a handful (probably a very small handful) of Series 1 subscriber like me who had good reasons not to use their Tivo during that time period. There were, I think, just 2 other people in this thread affected by this. I guess they are hoping that we will just go away if they dig in hard enough. Not me.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Have at it - at the time TiVo dropped support, the current market value of a Series 1 with lifetime was less than $100 so your loss was less than $100 and is all you will ever get in any court of law. 

By the way analog cable is long gone and you need a Comcast STB to use a Series 1 or 2 TiVo. So you could have used the Series 1 on a Uverse STB just the same as with a Comcast STB now.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

Jim Bodwin said:


> I guess they are hoping that we will just go away if they dig in hard enough. Not me.


Interesting. So, if you were to prevail (presumably in court), just what compensation do you think you would be awarded for the fair value of a 17 year old TiVo device?

And if you are able to find your original TiVo TOS from way-back-when, I'm sure you will discover (if you dig deep enough) some sort of language that states something to the effect that TiVo reserves the right to terminate or alter services at any time for any reasons. This is standard boilerplate that has been upheld in the courts numerous times. But many people pay little attention to terms when they sign up for stuff.

Usually initial TOS agreements are written whereby a service provider discloses up front that the terms may be modified at any time without prior notice. The onus is on you to go to a website and keep current with any changes. You most likely agreed to that when you initially commenced a service agreement with TiVo. This is very common. As such, the change to binding arbitration would probably be upheld in court.

In the final analysis, you will have to weigh the costs and benefits of attempted litigation. This assumes you can find an attorney that would take the case. And one that would do so on a contingency basis ...otherwise, you will have to front the expenses of a legal challenge yourself.

At any rate, please let us know how it goes.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jim Bodwin said:


> *What doesn't make sense to me is their arbitrary "if you haven't used it in this time period then it is dead" decision.* Clearly there are a handful (probably a very small handful) of Series 1 subscriber like me who had good reasons not to use their Tivo during that time period. There were, I think, just 2 other people in this thread affected by this. I guess they are hoping that we will just go away if they dig in hard enough. Not me.


This is the part that makes the most sense to me. They wanted to do right by people who were actually using their Series 1 with Lifetime units. They can tell from the network connections how many units there were and they could make a calculation as to what this move will cost and decided it was a good business decision. But they didn't want to create artificial value for all those potential S1 Lifetime units that people just shoved in a closet somewhere. I'll bet there are many thousands of those and their owners had already written them off as worthless, because otherwise they would have been using them or would have sold them. So they don't want all those owners who had an unused (and therefore worthless) S1 to suddenly expect $75-100 in compensation for a doorstop that's been sitting in a closet collecting dust.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> Not that it will help you, but the CFPB has introduced a new regulation that will remove all forced arbitration *for financial institutions*. Not yet law, but it could be.


Fixed your post. This particular change isn't going to affect TiVo's arbitration "agreement".


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## Robert McWhorter (Jul 15, 2017)

I have a Romeo but don't know if its a series one or not. It supports up to 4 minis and has no MOCA port.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Robert McWhorter said:


> I have a Romeo but don't know if its a series one or not. It supports up to 4 minis and has no MOCA port.


Roamio: System Information: Platform: Series5.


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## Robert McWhorter (Jul 15, 2017)

I have done 3 things and seem to be ok now.

1 made all TIVO box ips in router static
2. swapped out the Actiontec MOCA adaptor for a different one


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## christianroberts (Mar 2, 2018)

I think since it is 2018 now and we have access to so much research, we should have read the terms thoroughly and understood it before declaring that what TiVo has done is wrong or something.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Jim Bodwin said:


> How many years I've had the Tivo and its current depreciated value are not relevant here. The contract said "lifetime" (not 17 years). And it did not give Tivo the option to buy me out for the depreciated value.





Jim Bodwin said:


> I do have a contract with Tivo that they are not honoring so they are not on firm ground here at all.


Can you share the contract so we can see the Ts & Cs?


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Jim Bodwin said:


> Tivo didn't have to make this change. They could have paid both the old guide data provider (for Series 1 users) and the new guide data provider (for everyone else).


Do you have any insight into how much Gracenote would have wanted in fees for this? Especially given old TiVo was just bought by their only competitor in meta data? Do you think Gracenote would have been kind and offered good terms?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ah30k said:


> Do you have any insight into how much Gracenote would have wanted in fees for this? Especially given old TiVo was just bought by their only competitor in meta data? Do you think Gracenote would have been kind and offered good terms?





ah30k said:


> Can you share the contract so we can see the Ts & Cs?


Those posts were the only time that member visited the forum. I wouldn't expect an answer.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Jim Bodwin said:


> How many years I've had the Tivo and its current depreciated value are not relevant here. The contract said "lifetime" (not 17 years). And it did not give Tivo the option to buy me out for the depreciated value. Tivo certainly understands this - and they corrected their error in subsequent "Lifetime" or "All-In" contracts.
> 
> Was it a good deal for me? Of course it was. But that doesn't change the fact that they have a contractual obligation to Series 1 Lifetime subscribers.
> 
> On the "forced arbitration" question: the CFPB is trying to make forced arbitration unenforceable in contracts for consumer products. That would be a good thing but it isn't needed here since the original "lifetime service" contract had no forced arbitration clause. Neither party in a contract can unilaterally change the terms of the contract so there is no forced arbitration here.


Even if a contractual obligation still exists, the court can't force Tivo to provide guide data for a Series 1. The remedy for discontinuing guide data service would be financial compensation. The outcome you seek is a legal impossibility.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Even if a contractual obligation still exists, *the court can't force Tivo to provide guide data for a Series 1*. The remedy for discontinuing guide data service would be financial compensation. The outcome you seek is a legal impossibility.


Well, legally, it _could_--but 99.99+ % of the time wouldn't.  It would be either financial compensation or a current replacement device with lifetime.


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## AHN (Jul 21, 2018)

How did you post this? I do not know how to post a question to anyone on this forum! Sorry to bug you but i need help


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

AHN said:


> How did you post this? I do not know how to post a question to anyone on this forum! Sorry to bug you but i need help


This thread is not locked. It is ignored by many since there are not a lot of series 1 units still in use.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Molly Lee said:


> I also don't know how to send a post


Well, you just posted to a thread. The only other actions are starting your own thread; or sending a direct message to other users ('Start a Conversation'), though this action doesn't appear available for all user targets.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

millespaul700 said:


> I contacted TiVo on the Series 1 hotline and asked if they would move my lifetime subscription to a series 2 box. TiVo removed the ability to activate Series 1, 2, and 3 boxes shortly before announcing the Series 1 shutdown and are completely unable to activate a Series 2, even it was new in the box. The timing of this is very suspicious.


Correct, Tivo has ended activations of any Series 1,2,3. So basically its only good for parts now. However, any of these that are already activated will still work.

If they are able to move lifetime from any of the Series 1,2,3, it would be to a Premiere, Roamio, or Bolt.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

millespaul700 said:


> I contacted TiVo on the Series 1 hotline and asked if they would move my lifetime subscription to a series 2 box. TiVo removed the ability to activate Series 1, 2, and 3 boxes shortly before announcing the Series 1 shutdown and are completely unable to activate a Series 2, even it was new in the box. The timing of this is very suspicious.


Why on earth would someone still have a Series 2 new in the box?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why on earth would someone still have a Series 2 new in the box?


I constantly am amazed at this. I just saw on Craigslist an almost new ("just used a few times") Series 2 TiVo, for $75 (the seller seemingly doesn't know that the non-lifetime box cannot, now, be re-subscribed; or is being coy on the topic).


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> I constantly am amazed at this. I just saw on Craigslist an almost new ("just used a few times") Series 2 TiVo, for $75 (the seller seemingly doesn't know that the non-lifetime box cannot, now, be re-subscribed; *or is being coy on the topic*).


Might be a scam.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I think many Tivos were given as gifts over the years without service on them and the recipient never activated the Tivo or balked at the cost of the subscription and the Tivo was put in a closet or attic thinking they might use it someday. So there could be many new in the box Tivos or Tivos used for the 14-day free trial and never used again.


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## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

I still have an S2 with Lifetime and I find YET AGAIN that even though I've signed up for email offers for tradeups, I find my account still shows that I'm not subscribed for them. I missed the summer offer because I don't visit here enough to have seen it.

I'm going to try calling in tomorrow to see if they can't throw me a bone for a lifetime transfer deal for a Bolt.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

www.tivo.com/thanksgivingsale2018


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## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

ThAbtO said:


> www.tivo.com/thanksgivingsale2018


It's now an unavailable page, but the link is redirected to Problem Loading Page


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

It still works for me.


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## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

Interesting. it WAS not working, now it is. It was also redirecting to Problem Loading Page , which definitely doesn't work, today.

I wonder if they were testing out changes and decided to roll back.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Must have been server maintenance.


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