# Comcast HD DVR cost $4.95/month !!



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

My Comcast bill list the Comcast DVR cost as $9.95/month so when I got my Series 3 working great I was going to use a HD Cable box on another HD TV in my home. I thought that I would save $9.95/month by not having the DVR function, not so, its only a savings of $4.95. That means that if you have a HDTV and A HD Cable Box, to upgrade to a HD DVR the cost increase would be only $4.95/month. That is less than I thought. My location is in the Hartford CT area. I mention this because it tells me that TiVo really needs that lower cost HD-DVR that I have been hearing about.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Is that $4.95 for the HD-DVR, or is that $4.95 extra for the DVR vs just a HD cable box? If it's extra, you can't really compare it to the TiVo monthly cost, since you wouldn't need the cable box for the TiVO, and generally the CableCARDs are less expensive than a cable box.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

My cable company charges for the DVR and another fee for DVR service.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

In many areas these are the charges:

SD STB = $0
HD STB = $5
HD PVR = $11.95 (recently increased from $9.95)
TiVo S3 = $1.50

There is also a "hidden" $6.99 fee. For the "2nd" equipment they will likely charge you digital additional outlet fee of $6.99 on top of the above fees regardless of which option you choose.

So the Comcast PVR is only $6.95 ($4.95 at the old pricing) if you are considering HD STB upgrade to PVR. If you are considering SD STB upgrade to PVR it is $11.95. In many areas, they also force you to get a digital package so if you don't have that, you have to add an additional $11.95 to the Comcast PVR regardless of whether you want the digital package or not.


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## jeffk (Oct 15, 2002)

Before I got the Series 3 I was being charged

8.95 HD STB
4.95 PVR service

so 14.00 for HD DVR/box

Jeff



sfhub said:


> In many areas these are the charges:
> 
> SD STB = $0
> HD STB = $5
> ...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Since I have limited basic only, a Comcast DVR would cost me additional $61.13  per month.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Is that $4.95 for the HD-DVR, or is that $4.95 extra for the DVR vs just a HD cable box? If it's extra, you can't really compare it to the TiVo monthly cost, since you wouldn't need the cable box for the TiVO, and generally the CableCARDs are less expensive than a cable box.


You are correct it is $4.95/month to upgrade from a HD cable box to a HD DVR cable box, its tricky because the cable co charges to receive HD, you would have to pay something if you just got the Cable Cards and wanted to watch HD channels using the cable cards.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

UNless you only have one HD box like I have for On Demand. Comcast doesn't charge me for that box. To add an HD DVR though they would charge me $11.95 a month. Which I would like. only so i could get a box with an HDMI output, but it's not worth $11.95 since I rarely use it. If it had the TiVo software for that price I would get it and use it for backup recordings.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Yea, some of these cable operators are trying to trick people with rates that appear lower than they actually are. For instance, my provider advertises $11.95 for an HD DVR, but they negelect to mention an additional $6.95 service fee attached to it. They also advertise their HD package for $9.95, but there's a $2.95 service fee tied to that. It reality, it's over $30 a month for a HD DVR with HD programming. Another thing they do is advertise their digital packages for about $20 per month less. The price is introductory and goes up after a year, but they negelect to make that obvious. Gotta pay attention with these guys or you could get a big surprise in the mail.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> UNless you only have one HD box like I have for On Demand. Comcast doesn't charge me for that box. To add an HD DVR though they would charge me $11.95 a month. Which I would like. only so i could get a box with an HDMI output, but it's not worth $11.95 since I rarely use it. If it had the TiVo software for that price I would get it and use it for backup recordings.


I have the DVR Comcast Cable box (Mot) and I only want a box for On-Demand no DVR, I was suprised that I would only save $4.95/month, or put it another way if I had the HD cable box without a DVR, the DVR function would only cost me $4.95/month more.


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

All I know is after getting rid of the cable company box my cable bill went down around 19.00 a month.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

cablevision in NJ charges almost 6 dollars for the STB part, and an additional 9.99 for DVR service, so its about 16- plus tax a month for a regular or HD DVR. They don't charge extra for HD which is nice I suppose.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

CraigHB said:


> For instance, my provider advertises $11.95 for an HD DVR, but they negelect to mention an additional $6.95 service fee attached to it. They also advertise their HD package for $9.95, but there's a $2.95 service fee tied to that.


I love that kind of marketing. "It costs $11.95... if you also pay $6.95 extra". 

A car dealer here many years ago had an ad in the Sunday paper that cracked me up. I wish I would have saved it. All the listed vehicle prices had a disclaimer in small print: the prices were only valid if you also paid $2000 (or some similar rather large amount, dopn't remember exactly) up front. So a $15k car was advertised as $13k... you just had to pay an additional $2k to get it for $13k.

Maybe the manager there had worked for a cable company before?


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

sfhub said:


> In many areas these are the charges:
> 
> SD STB = $0
> HD STB = $5
> ...


Really? Tivo dropped their monthly service for the S3 down to $1.50 per month?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

m_jonis said:


> Really? Tivo dropped their monthly service for the S3 down to $1.50 per month?


No, CableCard for the S3.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

c3 said:


> No, CableCard for the S3.


Oh, then I guess that's not really a fair comparison to say it's only $1.50 for the S3 and $11.95 for the "cable co" DVR then. At least IMO.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

m_jonis said:


> Oh, then I guess that's not really a fair comparison to say it's only $1.50 for the S3 and $11.95 for the "cable co" DVR then. At least IMO.


Nobody was making that comparison, though. All of this is just what *Comcast* charges for the various options. The standard Comcast charge is $1.50 for cablecards for an S3 if it's the only box being charged for.


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## artshell (Apr 2, 2007)

All this seems a lot more complicated than a few years ago
(&/or I've got a lot older). Back then, I brought home a
TiVo & a Panasonic (or similar) in that order and liked the
2nd a lot better - but got refunds on each to avoid "nothing
but TV". Now I'm just upgrading from Standard Comcast to
Digital Plus & wondering if my next shd be some kind of TiVo
or a Comcast DVR (avoiding HD to keep things simple).
Shd I believe the 11.95 rate for DVR, or is there a "hidden
cost" - & how compare the result with TiVo, etc.
(C'cast brought one a while back & were unable to hook it up - but shd've learned a bit since then.)


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

m_jonis said:


> Oh, then I guess that's not really a fair comparison to say it's only $1.50 for the S3 and $11.95 for the "cable co" DVR then. At least IMO.


It was not meant as a comparison of total ownership costs. It was a list of charges you will see from Comcast. There are some hidden fees with the Comcast DVR if you don't already have a digital package. I assume since you own a TiVo you already know about the explicit fees TiVo charges, the unit itself, and the service, whether that be lifetime, MSD, or monthly.

Assuming your area's rate table matches those #s, it is a completely fair comparison of the charges you will see from Comcast if you have a single device.

SD cable box is $0 (included in package)
HD cable box is $5 ($5 for HD equipment fee upgrade over SD)
Comcast DVR is $11.95 ($11.95 for DVR service fee)
TiVo S3 is $1.50 (First CableCARD included in package, 2nd CableCARD $1.50)

If you need a *2nd* device, what they charge is $6.99 Digital Additional Outlet fee + the charges above (again assuming the rate table for your area matches)


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## artshell (Apr 2, 2007)

Re my 4/2, I shd probly start with some kind of TiVo from
BestBuy, check it out for 29 days (or as long as the free
svc lasts), and then decide if I shd pay Comcast a "Truck
Rolling Fee" to bring one of their units out here.
(Probly better than trying their DVR first, as I wdn't
be out anything at that point.) Or this may be the wrong
thread to bring this up. Art Shell


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Free service: Around a week (usually 5-6 days)
Full Test: CableCards required - the only "unknown" for a succesful installation

Trying before Buying with the intention of returning: Sleazy.

But I'm opinionated


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

In S FL, Comcast charges me $9.95 each for 2 SA8300HD boxes - that includes the remote, extra outlet fee and box rental (I assume they consider my CC on the Sony TV the 1st outlet, so the boxes are each "additional outlets"). Then they tack another $4.95 on for DVR service. That's a single charge - I don't know if it's a mistake or not but I'm not complaining. So now that I have a S3 Tivo, they charged me an additional $5.50 for 2 Cable Cards. I haven't got a monthly bill yet so I don't know what the monthly charge will be, but the single CC I have in my Sony TV costs $1.75/ month. I'm ready to pull the plug on the 2 SA boxes, but I'd like to have a digital box (no recording) for the second set. I have no idea what the final cost per month will be, and reading this thread, it looks like it's unpredictable.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> The standard Comcast charge is $1.50 for cablecards for an S3 if it's the only box being charged for.


Is that what you're being charged? I'm just down the road from you and both my CableCARDs are free (though I know Comcast does charge in other areas)...


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

davezatz said:


> Is that what you're being charged? I'm just down the road from you and both my CableCARDs are free (though I know Comcast does charge in other areas)...


Interesting. I saw that the bill went up by $5.50 or so with the March increase, and they said they were starting to charge $1.50 per cablecard in their new price sheet, so I had assumed the increase had included the cablecard fee. But you are right, it doesn't. I'm still listed as $0.00 for cablecards. (I'm also listed as $0.20 for a digital remote, which I don't have, and don't have any need for). Very possibly we're not listed as having TiVos, since we pre-date that line-item in their system.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

c3 said:


> Since I have limited basic only, a Comcast DVR would cost me additional $61.13  per month.


EXACTLY....just about the same for me (using Mediacom)...therefore, the S3 "pays for itself" in about one year (granted without cable HD, but, right now I watch "too much" TV).


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

Hi:
Perhaps I'm a little dense, but why buy an S3 if you're not going to have HD?
Why not just get an S2?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

brebeans said:


> Hi:
> Perhaps I'm a little dense, but why buy an S3 if you're not going to have HD?
> Why not just get an S2?


Bierboy gets OTA HD. I get local HD through Comcast limited basic.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

brebeans said:


> Hi:
> Perhaps I'm a little dense, but why buy an S3 if you're not going to have HD?
> Why not just get an S2?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=346538


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

c3 said:


> Since I have limited basic only, a Comcast DVR would cost me additional $61.13  per month.


This is not really a fair statement. You are getting much more than just a Comcast DVR for your $61.13 per month (like an extra 100 channels including perhaps a dozen HD channels you never had access to). You may not want those things, but you are getting more.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

ah30k said:


> This is not really a fair statement.


Why would I want to pay more than $60/month for channels I don't watch? I might as well throw the money into the trash can. If I want to get *ALL* of the non-premium HD channels, I just have to pay $12/month more for digital classic, not >$60/month for the Comcast DVR.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

c3 said:


> Why would I want to pay more than $60/month for channels I don't watch? I might as well throw the money into the trash can. If I want to get *ALL* of the non-premium HD channels, I just have to pay $12/month more for digital classic, not >$60/month for the Comcast DVR.


I don't know what Comcast system you have but before i got my HDTV I was paying Comcast $60/month for expanded basic service (ch 2-99). When I first got my HDTV in 2004 and got the Comcast HD-DVR my bill went to $78/month, cost increase was $18. To get a $60 increase you must have had basic service only (Ch 2-22) no CNN, FOX news, MSNBC, etc. Most Cable bills require a degree in accounting to fully understand.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

lessd said:


> To get a $60 increase you must have had basic service only (Ch 2-22) no CNN, FOX news, MSNBC, etc.


c3 already said he has limited basic, not expanded basic.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

lessd said:


> I don't know what Comcast system you have


I pay Comcast ~$15/month for limited basic: analog channels 2-34 and local digital channels (SD and HD). BTW, I did pay the $10-$12/month extra for digital classic right after getting my S3, but I cut back because I was spending way too much time in front of the TV.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ah30k said:


> This is not really a fair statement. You are getting much more than just a Comcast DVR for your $61.13 per month (like an extra 100 channels including perhaps a dozen HD channels you never had access to). You may not want those things, but you are getting more.


It is completely fair for c3's situation.

Someone has limited basic paying $15.27/month. They call up Comcast and say they want an HD-DVR. Comcast says well, to get the HD-DVR, you need to get expanded basic ($37.23 more), digital classic ($11.95 more), and DVR service ($11.95 more). You tell them I don't want all that, I just want the HD-DVR, they say tough luck that's what it will cost you ($61.13 more)

You then ask them how much will it cost for a TiVo S3. They give the spiel about how it can't get onDemand and PPV and how Comcast DVR is much better. You insist to get a price, and they say you will need to buy your equipment yourself, but from Comcast standpoint, we will charge you $1.50 above what you are paying now.


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## ohendo (Jun 27, 2005)

artshell said:


> Re my 4/2, I shd probly start with some kind of TiVo from
> BestBuy, check it out for 29 days (or as long as the free
> svc lasts), and then decide if I shd pay Comcast a "Truck
> Rolling Fee" to bring one of their units out here.
> ...


First of all, the "shd" abbreviation seems annoying. Might just be me.
Anyway, if you want to try out a Comcast DVR, just stop by one of their customer service centers and pick one up. If you don't like it, simply return it to the same place. They'll only bill you for the time you actually use it. Avoid any "truck fees".

Lastly, I agree with Ashu. 
"Free service: Around a week (usually 5-6 days)
Full Test: CableCards required - the only "unknown" for a succesful installation

Trying before Buying with the intention of returning: Sleazy."


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

c3 said:


> Why would I want to pay more than $60/month for channels I don't watch? I might as well throw the money into the trash can. If I want to get *ALL* of the non-premium HD channels, I just have to pay $12/month more for digital classic, not >$60/month for the Comcast DVR.





sfhub said:


> It is completely fair for c3's situation.
> 
> Someone has limited basic paying $15.27/month. They call up Comcast and say they want an HD-DVR. Comcast says well, to get the HD-DVR, you need to get expanded basic ($37.23 more), digital classic ($11.95 more), and DVR service ($11.95 more). You tell them I don't want all that, I just want the HD-DVR, they say tough luck that's what it will cost you ($61.13 more)
> 
> You then ask them how much will it cost for a TiVo S3. They give the spiel about how it can't get onDemand and PPV and how Comcast DVR is much better. You insist to get a price, and they say you will need to buy your equipment yourself, but from Comcast standpoint, we will charge you $1.50 above what you are paying now.


If one's Comcast area allows Digital Classic without Expd. service, then one should be able to get the DVR. But, possibly this varies by area.

Even my area which allows this, presents services on their website in a tiered manner- 
Basic, Expd., Digital Classic & Plus, Digital Plus with Premium(s).

A DVR needs Digital Classic, which can only be ordered online with Expd.

But, if one reads our local FCC-mandated Prices/Services List, one needs just Basic, and then can add anything they want, like say just a Premium or Digital Classic. (FCC Tier Buy Through Prohibition)

How the List applies to a DVR-

A DVR is voluntary, so they can have any pre-requisite they want. 
Our list says for a DVR, Digital Classic or Plus is needed.
Digital Classic or Plus don't have any pre-requisites listed (other than Basic), so that gets a DVR.
Areas do vary. Anecdotally, I have seen more areas that allow it, than don't, for what its worth.

Even if they do allow it, some CSRs play or are ignorant and say it can't be done. 
Citing the Prices/Services List and talking to a Supervisor, usually gets it done, if needed. 
Although, I read of an office going against what was in writing, go figure.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

QZ1 said:


> If one's Comcast area allows Digital Classic without Expd. service, then one should be able to get the DVR.


In my area, I can get digital classic without expanded basic. However, DVR requires both.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

c3 said:


> In my area, I can get digital classic without expanded basic. However, DVR requires both.


I did say this could possibly vary by area.  
I did read previous posts that stated that people thought or knew Expd. was their local requirement for a DVR. 
But, my point is what they show on their site and tell you on the phone is not necessarily true. 
One needs to read what is in writing, and possibly you did, but many people don't. 
Does you local Prices/Services List show a DVR needing Digital Classic and Expd. or are the CSRs going against a written policy?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

QZ1 said:


> Does you local Prices/Services List show a DVR needing Digital Classic and Expd. or are the CSRs going against a written policy?


I don't think the price list has these requirements. Nobody in the avsforum San Fransisco Bay Area section has reported being able to get the DVR without expanded basic + digital classic. Some CSRs would not let you have digital classic without expanded basic, but many people have done that, including myself.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

QZ1 said:


> If one's Comcast area allows Digital Classic without Expd. service, then one should be able to get the DVR. But, possibly this varies by area.


Please show an existence proof and we will go from there


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## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

I asked this a while back in another post. Why would you want a HD dvr either comcasts or tivos and not want the HD programing to go with it?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Because some people end up recording most of their HD from ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC (which come with all packages, regardless of whether you have digital package or not) and they don't really care about the other HD channels.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

sfhub said:


> Because some people end up recording most of their HD from ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC (which come with all packages, regardless of whether you have digital package or not) and they don't really care about the other HD channels.


Not to mention these are also available OTA in most metro areas (letting people dispense with cable altogether!) ... but that's beyond the scope of THIS discussion!


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

We upgraded our Platinum Cable package from Comcast (in the SF Bay Area, Berkeley specifically) at the beginning of March due to getting a HDTV. We (at this time) also decided to get the Comcast Digital Voice and Internet as our ISP agreement was stopping (after 1 year) at that same time.

We had been paying $125 including taxes ($124 and change) a month for just the cable, and now we have the cable+voice (local and LD)+Internet for about $159 before taxes and extra fees (DVR + modem for Internet/Voice).

We added on HD programming so that is $5/mo here, plus it *was* (as we are getting rid of the DVR since we got our Series3 today, comcast shows up with cable cards on friday!) $11.95 or so a month for the HD Dual Tuner DVR... Now, since we got the 3 for all package thing, we actually got a bit of a bonus with that, they included in the Digital Sports Tier of programming, and a 2nd Outlet and Cable box as well as part of the price. So we moved our old cable box with the old tv into my roommates room, with our other tivo as well, and then had all the new stuff in the living room.

Now with us switching to Tivo again (bye-bye comcast DVR, I really hated you) after having the comcast DVR for only a month, we will not have the $11.95/mo fee anymore (we had no second "box fee" of $6.95 or so included for the dual tuner like some have said they had to pay). In return (when comcast sets up the cable cards for us), we will have the first one (cablecard) for free, and the second one will cost us a monthly fee of $1.50 only. Our other cable box is still "free" from being part of the triple play package we have and we will end up saving over $10 a month now.

As for Tivo monthly fees, we went to cancel at the beginning of march and had the nice tivo guy offer us a great deal instead... $6.95/mo for our tivo box, and we had no time specific contract as we had been at $12.95/mo since Feb 2004. The great part? We bought Series 3 and today I activated it by switching the service to it from the other box... Our other box, it's a Humax DRT-800 (with DVD burner/player) and still qualifies for Lifetime Service, so we got that for it today and activated it (with that) too.

Total monthly Tivo service fees now (and locked in): $6.95 for 2 boxes (1 Series 2, and 1 Series 3).

Still saving from Comcast each month after paying for CableCards: $10.49 or so.

Yes, we paid lots of money for the Series 3 ($599.99 from Costco) and then the $299 for the Lifetime Service for the Humax box we have, but that's under $1,000 for the pricey stuff, and the $10.49 or more we save from Comcast not only pays the measley $6.95/mo Tivo fee, but we still end up saving at least another $3-4 after all that (and every month so it does add up).

Also, this is a great thing to do now, as I was told that prices for Tivo Service will be going up again in November (to around $15/mo for 3 yr contracts, $17-18? for 2 yr contracts, and a whopping $20 for 1 yr contracts). My pre-"time related" contract and Lifetime service now let me have great rates, where as someone who chooses (come November) to activate one or 2 newly purchased boxes with new agreements will end up paying much larger fees... And now you have to watch out for those that are actually available to qualitfy for a Multi Tivo Discount fee on their 2nd box, since the pre-paid boxes and Lifetime ones can't be counted as the "1st" box...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

ivyvine420 said:


> I was told that prices for Tivo Service will be going up again in November (to around $15/mo for 3 yr contracts, $17-18? for 2 yr contracts, and a whopping $20 for 1 yr contracts).


Did the CSR tell you that, or have I missed a thread somewhere?



ivyvine420 said:


> And now you have to watch out for those that are actually available to qualitfy for a Multi Tivo Discount fee on their 2nd box, since the pre-paid boxes and Lifetime ones can't be counted as the "1st" box...


Prepaid and lifetime boxes have always been counted as the "1st" boxes for MSD purpose.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

c3 said:


> I don't think the price list has these requirements. Nobody in the avsforum San Fransisco Bay Area section has reported being able to get the DVR without expanded basic + digital classic. Some CSRs would not let you have digital classic without expanded basic, but many people have done that, including myself.


Well, if one wants Digital Classic or Plus w/o Expd., one can always play CSR Roulette.  Of course, that doesn't help with getting a DVR. If nobody can get a DVR like that, then it probably is in writing.

Don't you guys save your price lists? Maybe you aren't at home?
My local list has 20 (!) notes regarding pre-requisites, equipment requirements, and explanations.

When I call or chat, I tell them what they are going to give me, (based on the list). Then, at the end of the conversation, I ask them to confirm my monthly service total before fees/taxes; I haven't had any billing surpirses since then.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1
If one's Comcast area allows Digital Classic without Expd. service, then one should be able to get the DVR. But, possibly this varies by area.



sfhub said:


> Please show an existence proof and we will go from there


I can only show proof my service area, if you'd like? But, that won't help you.  
In your service area, it may be in writing to allow a Digital or HD Box with Digital Classic a la carte, but for a DVR, it may require Digital Classic and Expd. 
That is why the local prices/services list is so important to have when asking for services/boxes.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

QZ1 said:


> However, in your service area, while it might be in writing to allow Digital Classic a la carte, for a DVR, it could require Digital Classic and Expd.
> That is why the local prices/services list is so important to have when asking for services/boxes.


I just checked my price list, and there are no written requirements. However, it does say: "Certain restrictions apply. Call Comcast for complete details about services and prices." You know what *that* means.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

QZ1 said:


> I can only show proof my service area; is that what you are asking for?


So your area allows you to get DVR service with just Limited Basic + Digital Classic (ie you can get DVR w/o expanded basic)? This is based on personal experience or reading the rate card?

The point I'm getting at is if you personally are able to (or can point to someone who has been able to) get DVR service without needing to get expanded basic, then that gives hope to others. On the other hand, interpreting the rate card and what it says or doesn't say is potentially a black hole for many folks because Comcast does not listen to logic and what their rate card says. They only listen to the examples they have been given by upper management. What is the next level of escalation if you have already gone through 3 managers and they keep telling you expanded basic is required, even though the rate card doesn't say so explicitly?

If you can show an existance proof, either yourself or someone else, who has gotten DVR w/o expanded basic, then that gives some guidance that if you talk to enough CSRs you can get this done. If there are no examples of this and someone has already gone through 3 managers, then there is little hope.

The rate card I'm seeing has *no* requirements listed for DVR service. It doesn't say digital classic is needed. It is just listed as an optional service just like HBO. However when you call in, they apply their own prerequisites.

The 20 (!) notes you are seeing are replaced with a generic paragraph:
"Certain restrictions apply. Call Comcast for complete details about services and prices. Certain services are available separately or as part of other levels of service. Not all services are available in all areas. Limited Basic Service must be purchased in order to subscribe to any other optional video service or tier of video services. You must purchase or rent a converter and a remote control to receive certain services. Installation, equipment, additional outlet, change of service, programming access and other charges may apply, depending on location and services ordered. Pricing, programming, channel location and packaging may change. You must subscribe to a Digital receiver and a Premium Service to receive the multiplexed version of that Premium Service."


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

c3 said:


> I just checked my price list, and there are no written requirements. However, it does say: "Certain restrictions apply. Call Comcast for complete details about services and prices." You know what *that* means.


That is quite amazing. :down: 
The FCC mandates the MSO to publish a list with all services, terms, and prices, at least annually. It must be mailed to the customer, and upon customer request it must be given to the customer. 
There are just way too many notes nowadays, 20, as I said, it fills up 2/3 of a pamphlet page. 
If I were you, I would find that FCC reg., and ask that they provide this for you. 
Of course, if they leave it up to calling, they can change the terms at will, as you implied.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

QZ1 said:


> The FCC mandates the MSO to publish a list with all services, terms, and prices, at least annually. It must be mailed to the customer, and upon customer request it must be given to the customer.
> There are just way too many notes nowadays, 20, as I said, it fills up 2/3 of a pamphlet page.
> If I were you, I would find that FCC reg., and ask that they provide this for you.
> Of course, if they leave it up to calling, they can change the terms at will, as you implied.


The text we are quoting *is* the mailed rate card that you are referring to (for our area). It is 2 pages included with the bill. First page is full of service and equipment pricing. Second page is full of programming tiers and relationships between the tiers.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

sfhub said:


> So your area allows you to get DVR service with just Limited Basic + Digital Classic (ie you can get DVR w/o expanded basic)?


Yes.


> This is based on personal experience or reading the rate card?


Both. 

I actually encountered a bit of resistance cancelling Expd., they first told me, I wouldn't be able to keep Digital Plus or the DVR. Then I outlined the pre-requistes on the list. So, then he said, he had never heard of anyone having this config., but he would ask his supervisor, and then it was allowed.

Basically, if one looks at the 'A La Carte' section, at 'DVR', the note has a pre-requisite of 'Digital Classic' or 'Digital Plus' or 'Enhanced, Internet, and Voice'. 
Also in the 'A La Carte' section, looking at 'Digital Classic' and 'Digital Plus', the note has no pre-requisite.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

sfhub said:


> The text we are quoting *is* the mailed rate card that you are referring to (for our area). It is 2 pages included with the bill. First page is full of service and equipment pricing. Second page is full of programming tiers and relationships between the tiers.


Yes, I understand that, my point was just that the FCC would view this as insufficient.  
Ours is a pamphlet, the info starts on the front cover as page one, then the inside has pages two and three, and the back cover is page four.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

I know over on AVS Forum, others in the Northern and Central East Coast, have gotten Digital Classic or Plus with just Basic. I seem to recall some also had a DVR, since it is quite a popular item, but it's been a while since it was discussed. I do remember some even saying that the CSR didn't try to dissuade them from adding just Digital Classic or Plus to a Basic sub. Of course, when one is cancelling Expd., they like to tell you of all the channels you would be losing, as they told me. And they might try to say it isn't possible.


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## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

I appreciate the monthly comparison of charges. But I have to be honest, given the start up costs of the S3, I think there should be a reasonable way to amortize the cost of the S3 w/o the cost of the lifetime transfer to come to a more accurate monthly cost.

Somehow I think it is disingenuous to say ah, a cable card is only $1.50 per month and avoid the $800 to $1100 it cost up front to get the S3 when you no upfront costs for renting a cable box. And I love the S3 and have no issues with what I paid for it. 

I just don't think these are accurate comparisons.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

QZ1 said:


> I actually encountered a bit of resistance cancelling Expd., they first told me, I wouldn't be able to keep Digital Plus or the DVR. Then I outlined the pre-requistes on the list. So, then he said, he had never heard of anyone having this config., but he would ask his supervisor, and then it was allowed.
> 
> Basically, if one looks at the 'A La Carte' section, at 'DVR', the note has a pre-requisite of 'Digital Classic' or 'Digital Plus' or 'Enhanced, Internet, and Voice'.
> Also in the 'A La Carte' section, looking at 'Digital Classic' and 'Digital Plus', the note has no pre-requisite.


I see, then it looks like if the front door is closed, we should try the back door. Sign up for limited+expanded+digital classic+dvr and cancel expanded.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> Nobody was making that comparison, though. All of this is just what *Comcast* charges for the various options. The standard Comcast charge is $1.50 for cablecards for an S3 if it's the only box being charged for.


It was still misleading.


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

c3 said:


> Did the CSR tell you that, or have I missed a thread somewhere?


Comcast person? No, it was the Tivo rep that told me this at the beginning of March... This is for Tivo's Service fees... I was told by the Comcast rep when I asked (around the same time) about the Tivo service for Comcast DVR boxes, that they should be released in the next couple months, and others have said already that the monthly fee (if you choose to use the tivo service) will then go up for your Comcast DVR they will let you choose which service/software you wish to use I guess) and that could be by anywhere from $3-5, making it around $15-18 for tivo service with Comcast DVR (which is not as nice or expanded as actual Tivo Service which come Nov. will be at most $20 per month, which is only approx. $2 more for the real thing - if going by a one year contract agreement that is).

So it all depends on whether people want to pay the $$$ for the Tivo Series 3 box itself or not...



c3 said:


> Prepaid and lifetime boxes have always been counted as the "1st" boxes for MSD purpose.


Yeah, I messed that up, I blame my dyslexia for that, I'm always getting everything backwards... The 2 service types (Lifetime and Prepaid) are both counted as the first box, it's those that are *not* allowed to be the boxes that receive the MSD itself (fairly obvious for the Lifetime as you don't pay anything anymore for it)...

Sorry about that.


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## QZ1 (Mar 24, 2003)

sfhub said:


> I see, then it looks like if the front door is closed, we should try the back door. Sign up for limited+expanded+digital classic+dvr and cancel expanded.


When I got the DVR, I didn't intend to cancel Expd., but that is just how it worked out, as I saw that the HD in Basic and Digital Classic (and SD in Digital Plus) was enough, that I didn't need all of the SD in Expd.

They actually were ready to end the DVR appt. call leaving my subscription intact at Standard, when I said don't I need a Digital service. They didn't say yes, they just said, what do you want, and I added Digital Plus.

When I cancelled Expd., I added a Premium for more HD, so at least they weren't losing too much. That may have influenced them to actually follow their own written policies. But, of course, Digital Services can be changed at will, so there is never a guarantee one would keep the premium, but I did.

Some areas allow a DVR with just Standard, but that is useless if one wants Digital Classic's HD, but not the Expd. part of Standard.

I do remember someone who got a DVR with Basic, it was a mistake by the CSR, and they told him he had to get Digital Classic or they would disable the DVR, so he returned it.

Cancelling Expd. later while keeping Digital Classic may work, but I don't recall that being discussed as being successful. If you don't keep Expd, they could disable the DVR functions on the HD DVR, effectively making it an HD Box, if they claim it is their policy.

I think it is would be better to cancel Expd. first, if you have it. Then go back to them a while later and ask for Digital Classic or Plus and a DVR, that might work, but, again, it might not due to claimed policy. I seem to recall this working for a few Basic subs; they weren't trying to make an end around the CSRs, they just happened to have Basic, and wanted the HD in Digital Classic and an HD DVR.

If somehow you could get them to give you a written list with all of the terms, you would have a much better chance. Although, someone from CA had a similar list as here, yet they refused to honor it, even at the office, so there is no guarantee. However, one could always complain to the FCC about getting all of the written terms. If they don't honor the written terms, again, one could complain to the FCC. It depends how much you want to pursue it. The local office can change their terms at any time, as long as they print it.


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

gamo62 said:


> It was still misleading.


I threw in the cost of the Series 3 Tivo box, as well as my Lifetime Service for my other Humax Series 2 box to show how much Service (2 boxes) I could get for 1 month in comparison to comcast (and the other tivo box) and the total monthly fees paid each month after looking at the $1000 spent for the 2 things listed above (saving money still by like $4)...

If you are going for price, you have to realize that the $10 you can save per month from switching Comcast DVR to cable cards for Tivo Series 3, can also be the $10 monthly payment to your credit card that you used to purchase the Series 3 Tivo (pretending you had a payment plan etc) and that after so much time, you will have paid it off and you will own the box while the comcast DVR box will still be theirs and you will still have to "pay" for it in some way if something happens to it during it's usage in your hands (it gets stolen, you drop it, etc)...

Also, and this may just be for me, I like to know that I can go and upgrade the HDD if I choose to, or know that they box has some kind of warranty (other than comcast taking it back and giving me another crappy - and already used - DVR box that might have even worse problems), plus knowing that the software itself is good and also (you can't forget this) the benefits of having the *real* Tivo service with the home networking and podcasts and so on...

If you don't care about owning and being able to upgrade on your own, or the extras that come with Tivo service compared to the *very plain* and basic tivo software that comcast will be releasing (and you will be paying around the same price per month as for the real Tivo Service) etc, then sticking with comcast's DVR might be a better bet, but I am (and I assume others are as well) are trying to show the benefit of going with the series 3 and even with the large purchase price, in the long run the cost ends up evening out and your user satisfaction will most likely be a lot higher than if you stuck with Comcasts DVR (I am ready to throw ours out the window, it's a good thing they are showing up tomorrow to take it away and install our cablecards).


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

I'm in S FL with Comcast just taking over from Adelphia. They've made some changes in price structure, but, other than losing HDNET, which irritates me, the cost for my service remains about constant. I have 2 SA 8300 DVR boxes for which I'm charged a total of $29.80 which breaks down as $8.95 per box, $.50 per the remote and $1.00 for 2 "extra outlets" (My 1st outlet is a CC installed in my Sony TV for which they charge me $1.75 monthly). According to the FAQ on the Comcast website, I shouldn't be charged for the CC in the Sony as it's supposed to be included with the expanded digital service, but so far I haven't complained. Last Saturday they came and installed 2 CCs in my new series 3 TiVo. For that I paid $5.50 to the installer. I assume that breaks down to $1.75 per card and the $1.00 per card "extra outlet" fee. Again, according to the FAQ, the first CC for the Tivo should be free so the total should be $2.75 for the Tivo. I have 30 days to return the TiVo and get my 3 year subscription refunded and, with all the talk about TiVo subscriptions going up and Comcast playing with fees, I wonder if I should just bail out while I can?


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

oldnacl said:


> I have 30 days to return the TiVo and get my 3 year subscription refunded and, with all the talk about TiVo subscriptions going up and Comcast playing with fees, I wonder if I should just bail out while I can?


One quick question to start... Is your 3 year sub the month to month, or is it the prepaid one? (I have written the rest of this post assuming that it is the month to month, if not, read it anyways, and try and see if you could get on a month to month 3 year compared to the prepaid 3 year if possible... The 3 yr prepaid seems great when looking at paying about $8.31/month right now, but I would rather have the $12.95/mo if it meant the price wouldn't end up changing... See more about this and asking Tivo reps your questions below)...

I would call Tivo and find out from someone (if they will tell you) if your current monthly price will go up in November when the monthly service fees are to be raised... I was told that because of the prepaid service acting kinda like a prepaid cell phone or calling card etc, where you have put the money on it already but it only pays off to the company for the calls you make etc, that the price change *will* affect people that are using this type of tivo service (as their 1-3 "years" won't really amount to that full time anymore, if you are nearing the end of your "time" then it wouldn't make that much of a difference, but just starting out, it could drastically change how much time (how many months of service) you get out of the prepaid deal...

As for the Monthly fees (month to month with 1-3 year agreements), these I am not sure about. I do not have any of the newer service plans/agreements and the prices that go along with them, so this is where the Tivo Rep could help answer questions. They might make it that you have "locked in" your current monthly price, so that you will only pay your current price until the end of your "agreement time period", whatever you have left of your 1-3 years, which *then* they might switch you to the newer price. This is basically the way that anyone with service from before this time last year has "locked in" their $12.95 monthly fee (and while we technically have an service/payment agreement as well, we just do not have to pay the early termination fee when we wish to cancel the Tivo Service).

The might even be nice and let those that are nearing the end of their term, "sign up" again and keep their same price or get a better deal than the new prices to come... I have no idea how they are planning to work this out, nor do I know how they are doing things currently for people with the 1-3 year agreements (anyone got a 1 year that is now ending soon and has input on what happens at that time?)...

If you found out that you could even just keep your current fee (especially if you have the $12.95/mo for 3 year agreement plan), until the end of your full term (3 years), then I would actually *stick* with it, as it will just be more costly to switch back to tivo at a later point, and like I was saying, Comcast and their HD Dual Tuner DVR with the Tivo service (adding around 3-5 bucks onto their normal $11.95 DVR cost right now), will end up being about the same price for other new (normal) Tivo Service users come November...

If you have the $12.95/mo price and can confirm it will stay this price for your 3 years, I would do that... $12.95 + $1.50 for 2nd Cablecard (first *must* be free if you are not also using a cable box, as most cable packages include the cable box/remote as part of the package price now, meaning first card replaces the already paid for box).

This is then $14.45 for your total monthly DVR related fees compared to $11.95/mo for Comcast's current (crappy) service and DVR box (crappy as well), or with their Tivo added Service, around $15-18 per month total, and you still wouldn't have all the great Tivo benefits, just a slightly better software to use on the DVR than Comcasts current version. The price would be about the same no matter which way you decided to go, so if you like the Series 3 and can get them to confirm that your monthly service fee will not change until your 3 years are up, then *do not* return the Tivo and enjoy the chance at getting your service at a lower price...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

When you sign up for 3 years of service, monthly or prepaid, it is a 3-year contract between you and TiVo. You are obligated to keep the 3 years of service, and TiVo cannot charge you higher price within those 3 years.


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

oldnacl said:


> For that I paid $5.50 to the installer. I assume that breaks down to $1.75 per card and the $1.00 per card "extra outlet" fee. Again, according to the FAQ, the first CC for the Tivo should be free so the total should be $2.75 for the Tivo.


Hey, I just thought I would comment on this part too... Now normally they aren't supposed to charge a second outlet fee for dealing with additional cablecards for the DVR, just like they don't charge for 2 outlets when you have one of their Dual Tuner DVRs... But since you did mention that you have another one in your sony TV, and that this was the first (original) one, this could be the cause of this. If your Tivo Series 3 is connected to your Sony TV and you really don't need that extra Cablecard for it, I would get them to take it back and then you should have to only pay for the 2nd cablecard for the Tivo, and THIS cablecard *should not* be charged with a fee for a second outlet cost... Sometimes they try and do this, but really it is only ONE device and they can only charge you for the additional cablecard for the unit (which someone has mentioned was listed somewhere - on their website?- that they would be $1.50 for each additional card). Then you could drop the extra $$ each month (I am thinking that they might be charging $1.25 per additional outlet and $1.50 per extra cablecard) and save the $4 or so and still have the Dual Tuner HD Tivo with 2 cablecards...


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## oldnacl (Mar 23, 2007)

ivyvine420 said:


> One quick question to start... Is your 3 year sub the month to month, or is it the prepaid one? ...


Mine is the prepaid - $299.00 up front for 3 years of service. I didn't read the fine print but if anyone actually did - can they change the rate and ask for more money? I'm on the fence right now regarding how much I'm willing to pay for HD DVR service since I already have DVRs with HDDS, but of course, no HD recording capability other than the 2 SA boxes. As I'll be retiring soon, I hope to cut back on a monthly cost and considered one of the discontinued Sony DVRs. They, however are hard to find without using eBay and I'm not fond of eBay.
It's looking like I may return the TiVo to Costco and ask for a refund on the subscription before my 30 days are up.


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

c3 said:


> When you sign up for 3 years of service, monthly or prepaid, it is a 3-year contract between you and TiVo. You are obligated to keep the 3 years of service, and TiVo cannot charge you higher price within those 3 years.


But it's how the prepaid actually works... Like if you have a prepaid card and 2 tivos, you can use the card to pay your monthly payment for both of them, one at the (most likely) $8.31/mo cost and then the second at possibly the $6.95 MSD fee...

Your Card would not last the whole 3 years as you are paying off more than the 8.31 a month... They told me to look at it like it is the $299 (for 3 year, price of 2) card, minus each month the tivo fee, as in $299-8.31= $ current balance and *not* 3 years - 1 month = 2 years and 11 months left...

So while your balance could be anywhere around $199.28 (having spent $99.72 for 12 months), once the new price kicks in, as you do not have a monthly *set price* but a prepaid total *amount of $$*, this will affect it all. You have to remember also, that this was not a prepaid like with Lifetime Service, this money hasn't actually gone to them yet, it is on the *card* that you bought like any other gift card and you spend it on current prices and however many items you wish to.

The $299 prepaid is 3 years for the price of 2... it works out to $8.31/mo currently, but if at 2 years for that price (which is what it originally was and says limited time offer), then it's about $12.49/mo... Also, they state that pricing and terms and conditions can change.

For example:


> ** TiVo service pricing, terms and conditions subject to change without notice. See TiVo gift card terms and conditions for details.


This can be found on many pages, like this one - read the top of the page - http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp...

Anyways, I was told this by the Tivo Rep on the phone when I was talking to him, he seemed very informed and also very happy to let me know that I could still get Lifetime Service for my Humax DRT-800 Tivo box among other things. Now, there is (of course) the chance that he was getting it wrong and therefore I am relaying the incorrect info, but as he was much more informed than the other person I talked to 2 days ago while switching service over and buying/activating the Lifetime, I would be much more surprised to find out he was wrong than not...


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## ivyvine420 (Mar 14, 2007)

oldnacl said:


> Mine is the prepaid - $299.00 up front for 3 years of service. I didn't read the fine print but if anyone actually did - can they change the rate and ask for more money? I'm on the fence right now regarding how much I'm willing to pay for HD DVR service since I already have DVRs with HDDS, but of course, no HD recording capability other than the 2 SA boxes. As I'll be retiring soon, I hope to cut back on a monthly cost and considered one of the discontinued Sony DVRs. They, however are hard to find without using eBay and I'm not fond of eBay.
> It's looking like I may return the TiVo to Costco and ask for a refund on the subscription before my 30 days are up.


If I were you, I would find out *first* about possibly returning the Prepaid to Tivo (as you didn't buy the Tivo from them, you don't need to return it to them). See about getting the month to month service.

I bought my Series 3 from Costco as well, and it was such a great price, plus costco always has their "satisfaction guaranteed" motto, they even (for some products like the HDTV we got from them) sometimes add on another year of *their* warranty to items ontop of the manufacturers warranty, can return at any time etc blah blah (I love that they will even return -in full- your membership fee if you are not satisfied with their service as a company).

I hate eBay too, I understand not wanting to purchase items though that...

Call Tivo up, demand to know what will happen to your monthly price. If yours will go up with price change, find out if you can *exchange* for month to month (return prepaid if needed, and then just sign up with them again for month to month if needed). Also say you really want to keep the Tivo and its service, but there is no way you can afford to pay more than "???" per month and hence the reason you bought the prepaid deal... Let them know that you have heard rumours and since you are in the first 30 days, you wanted to check them out now while you still had a chance to do something with your account...

When I called to cancel service for my old tivo that I ended up getting Lifetime for, they gave us the MSD fee as our monthly cost, to try and keep us as customers. If you are new to them, they don't have as much incentive, but I do think that they are willing to make deals with people at times as the guy who gave me the deal said that he saw some accounts that had 3-4 tivo boxes on the account, all with the MSD $6.95/mo fee and no actual "1st box" listed at full price and being the one needed for all the others to get the MSD...

Post any info you might get from them, as it will help others out as well, and any knowledge of the upcoming price changes and what it means to everyone out there (all different plan types etc) is definitely needed.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

oldnacl said:


> Mine is the prepaid - $299.00 up front for 3 years of service. I didn't read the fine print but if anyone actually did - can they change the rate and ask for more money? I'm on the fence right now regarding how much I'm willing to pay for HD DVR service since I already have DVRs with HDDS, but of course, no HD recording capability other than the 2 SA boxes. As I'll be retiring soon, I hope to cut back on a monthly cost and considered one of the discontinued Sony DVRs. They, however are hard to find without using eBay and I'm not fond of eBay.
> It's looking like I may return the TiVo to Costco and ask for a refund on the subscription before my 30 days are up.


No, they can't change the price. Ivyvine and/or her TiVo rep misunderstood something (the scenario she describes applies to some gift cards because of the language on them as I recall, but it does not apply to the 3 year prepaid deal). Given the possibility of a price increase, I would certainly go the 3 year pre-paid route.

I'm not sure what TiVo will do with the 3 year commitment but pay monthly in the event of a price increase. As I read it, they may be able to change the price of that, but I see no indication that they will.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

ivyvine420 said:


> But it's how the prepaid actually works... Like if you have a prepaid card and 2 tivos, you can use the card to pay your monthly payment for both of them


No, that is *NOT* possible. There is no such "TiVo prepaid card". When you pay $299 for a 3-year subscription, it's 3 years for one unit. There is no way to split that payment for multiple units. TiVo can change prices for month-to-month subscribers, but not for people under contract. Contract works both ways. You're speculating a "problem" that does not even exist.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> I'm not sure what TiVo will do with the 3 year commitment but pay monthly in the event of a price increase. As I read it, they may be able to change the price of that, but I see no indication that they will.


On both 3-year prepaid and 3-year commitment, the prices are fixed. When the commitment is over, the language says you pay the then applicable price for that level of commitment. From past experience they have usually grandfathered people on previous pricing plans so you are unlikely to see any change.

If they did try to change the pricing on 3-year commitment, that would represent a change in your contract and you could easily get out of the early termination fee if you chose to fight it.


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