# ALL SETUP! HD DVR w/OTA! Initial comments...



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Well I am pumped. The installer was at my house for 2 hours and it seemed to take forever for the guy to get things going and working. He laughed at me when he first showed up saying that in my location would never get OTA signals. Well after showing him the printout of which direction the signals are being broadcast from and everything he still did not want to do the OTA install. I insisted and he finally agreed to try it real quick to make sure I got a signal. Well he then used a amplified OTA antenna which he claims is MUCH more expensive but he said he would help me out.  Anyway he hooked it up and I got all my locals in with no problems. (Didn't check the signal strength but there was no pixelization or anything while watching any of my locals) 

First impression: The HD Tivo is SLOW! Not a little slow but almost painfully slow. Like a 386 running XP. Is there anyway to speed this box up? It takes 2-3 minutes just to load the channels your receive list. 

Well. I still need to go in and remove all the channels that I don't care about. I also want to backup the orginal drive and upgrade the system to add more space. Scares me though cause I think that will just make it slower. 

HD is awesome. Very disappointed in the 5.1 sound though on OTA channels. Not sure if it just that the shows don't put much effort into it but I find it very basic use of the sound. Rarely does a show even use the rears. 

Can someone explain the whole diplexer thing to me? He hooked up the OTA to my dish and I guess sent the OTA signal over one of my SAT cables then used a 2nd diplexer to split the ANT/SAT Signal. But then last night I would get a Searching for SAT 1 signal message while watching TV. It went away but I am getting a great signal. (85+) The guy said it was a voltage thing since I was using the SAT cable to provide power to the amplified antenna. That being the case would it be worth it to run a new cable direct from the antenna to my box and skip the whole diplexer thing?


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## kdonnel (Nov 28, 2000)

NatasNJ said:


> That being the case would it be worth it to run a new cable direct from the antenna to my box and skip the whole diplexer thing?


It is always better to avoid diplexers. When/If you migrate to the new dish you will not be able to use a diplexer for your OTA.


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## LowPingBoy (Dec 26, 2005)

Re 5.1 on your locals. I think that D* frequently posts the DD5.1 symbol in the guide/info for a program but it is not really broadcast as such. Kind of a crap shoot. But, at least with my receiver, when one kicks in there is no question at all - the place really rocks. Your receiver likely falshes a symbol or text when delivering 5.1; I'd check to make sure the program you think contains 5.1 really does. Also, if it is 5.1, the HDMI will not send the audio to your TV, all audio is put on the TOSLINK to your receiver - another way to check if it is really 5.1.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

The way I have it setup for 5.1, is I use the digital optical out from the DirectivoHD directly into my Receiver. So all my sound is through my speaker setup and it will go DD when it sees one. Blue light goes on and all. 

I was just very unimpressed with the sound of 5.1 on local channels compared to movies and such. 5.1 on HBO or HBOHD sounds great. Loud and like a DVD, where as local shows like CSI or something you barely notice a difference.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Glad it's up finally. Takes a few days to get the guide in but then it will be pretty fast doing recordings etc until you add SPs etc. Guide is always slower than old receivers, not sure why. But getting in and out of menus etc should be super fast in the beginning. Heck i remember reordering 20 SPs only took less than a minute when new!

I'd take the time and do a once over as far as signals OTA and satellite. 85 on satellite is definitely good but i'm getting 95+ and am a little more north of you. Still, if you have no weather outages, 85 is more than adequate, just guess i'm a perfectionist.

that close to philly I'd say you'd hit 90s easily with the OTA. But again, the higher the better with weather etc. I like to leave margins for error (which by the way, I was recently informed the OTA meter is not a signal strength meter but is an error correction meter)

Backing up is a great Idea, I'm waiting for drives to really drop before I do it. 

I've also read people set up favorites instead of changing channels you receive but I've never used anything other than CYR so you'd have to do a search about it to see why that's supposedly better. 

I'm not sure about the installer's voltage statement but as noted above, running a dedicated line is always best and if it's easily doable, I'd do it. But I'm running a diplexor myself (5x8 m/s to the HDtivo) and have no problems to speak of. 

and finally..enjoy!!!


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

My signal on all three SAT's is around 88 average. Peaking around 91-93. That has always worked good for me in the past. I rarely get rain fade. And when I do it usually only for 10-15 minutes if that when the storm is on its way in. 

I go through a multi-channel setup. 1st I remove all the channels that I willl NEVER use or see or get, from the channels you receive list. Then I go into favorites and only add the channels I care about or will watch 95% of the time. 

Then for example I want to watch a PPV then I will switch channel displays to see the movie selection. But for most use I will never need to see the 10 channels showing The Ring 2 or whatever... 

So I have the whole channel thing down but with SO MANY new channels and everything it will take me sometime to do it. I also plan to write down what I add/remove because I notice on cerrtain updates the channel listings get reset. FUN!

I saw a Maxtor 250gb drive for $79 after rebate but I missed it last week. Waiting for another one to come around then I will backup original drive and then add a 2nd drive. Just debating on what size 2nd drive I should use. Leaning towards around 300gb. Which seems to be the best price point for size. Around .33 a gig...

Can't wait to sit back and enjoy all the HD. But I need all my guide info to fill in. Only 15 shows in the Search by Show Title.


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

Compusa had a 200gb drive for $50 this week

so what did he charge you for the amp????? did he ever check it without the amp.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I had already gotten Directv to include an OTA ($49 value) for free. So he just used the AMP antenna instead. No charge. 

200gb for $50 is good but isn't the original drive in the Tivo 250gb?


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Oh no. NBC-10 is not coming in well at all. Signal strength on all my OTA channels are a solid 88 - 92 range. But NBC10 is bad. Ranges from 30 - 60 and even dipped to 0. 

Should I try adjustign antenna? Or And if so how do I determine strength from on roof? Any advice or help would be appreciated.


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## IndyTom (Mar 9, 2004)

I have my HD Tivo hooked up to a Sony receiver as well.

When the OTA locals broadcast in 5.1 - the blue light comes on as well.

Here's the kicker - do any of the shows ever make use of the 5.1? After all - the point of 5.1 is to have _surround_ sound. There is nada, zip, zero. Sometimes - when curioisty gets the best of me - I run the speaker test from my remote to make sure they are still plugged in!

Yes - the opening theme songs and the (dah daum) on the Law and Orders sound great coming out the fronts - but come on! I watched CSI recently - and there were helicopters - I listened hard - NOTHING! Come on CBS - live a little!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

The best advice is to go to your local area OTA thread over in AVS Forum and ask these questions.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> Oh no. NBC-10 is not coming in well at all. Signal strength on all my OTA channels are a solid 88 - 92 range. But NBC10 is bad. Ranges from 30 - 60 and even dipped to 0.
> 
> Should I try adjustign antenna? Or And if so how do I determine strength from on roof? Any advice or help would be appreciated.


you need someone else and/or a tv outside (though that may be a bit hard to see in daylight from that high up of course if you are alone). I ran a wire outside with a 13 in tv but of course had to go back in to change channels. Or if you have someone on a cordless phone with intercom capability or even a cell phone.

Amazing that close you can't get 10 in. It's probably your antenna. I 'think' but am not sure that it's multidirectional which could be a problem. I dont know how that antenna physically adjusts but it is obviously worth playing with a bit to see if it can find a decent position. If you got it free, I guess you can't get your money back but if it comes down to it, you can probably get a 50 dollar or less antenna and get much better reception. I'd be confident ordering this one especially since you are close.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm

Sorry that antenna stinks, but since it's already high up, it can't be a height problem. Now if you are dealing with obstacles like I had in my setup, it still could be difficult getting in (balancing nbc, abc and wb were a challenge for me) and there's even a small chance you need to set something up in a position different than your dish (I was shooting through a tunnel and 1 ft horizontally mattered in my setup though I think that's a rare situation)

if you do post over in AVS make sure you tell them what antenna you have and how close you are to philly. Keep us updated


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

The antenna I have is like the batman logo. I will take a picture of it tomorrow. 
But he said it was a good one and not the regular one they install.

Height could be an issue. My house is a 1.5 story house surrounded by tall trees and taller houses. The direction of the towers is fairly clear except for some tall trees but they are 200ft+ away from my house. 

I will get as much detail as I can and post here and also try over at the AVS local thread.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> The antenna I have is like the batman logo. I will take a picture of it tomorrow.
> But he said it was a good one and not the regular one they install.
> 
> Height could be an issue. My house is a 1.5 story house surrounded by tall trees and taller houses. The direction of the towers is fairly clear except for some tall trees but they are 200ft+ away from my house.
> .


That does worry me about the house. My neighbor has a .5 story advantage and even when my installer walked over to my part of the roof totally in line with my neighbors big old 15 ft antenna, I got poorer signal, no doubt because his house was there. When we moved to the spot "between" his house and trees, MUCH more stable and higher signal. It's the 'tunnel' you always hear me talk about. Real PITA but you forget about all that after 3 months of fine tuning and placing the antenna  trust me. The other forum is definitely more read for antenna issue's ....good luck

3 threads..you choose which you like
Philadelphia, PA - OTA (low volume)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=620626

Philadelphia, PA - HDTV (higher volume)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=182983

The Official AVS Antenna Topic! (higher volume but not location specific)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623


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## Finnstang (Sep 11, 2003)

I use favorites instead of CYR because if I take out the shopping channels, they show back up in CYR eventually. Also, if you don't care baout cracking it open already, zipper it and you can make the changes to the CYR and favorites through TiVoWebPlus and watch tv at the same time.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

What is difference between multi-directional and uni-directional? 

I assume it means that the multi directional antennas will pick up signals from multiple directions. If so I only care to get signals from one direction so a uni-directional would be a better thing for me right?


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## Finnstang (Sep 11, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> What is difference between multi-directional and uni-directional?
> 
> I assume it means that the multi directional antennas will pick up signals from multiple directions. If so I only care to get signals from one direction so a uni-directional would be a better thing for me right?


Your assumption is correct about the meanings. As far as which is better, I would think that a better mutli-directional antenna would be better than a crappy uni-directional, so it could depend somewhat.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

zipper it?


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## Finnstang (Sep 11, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> zipper it?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=265929


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Quick question regarding OTA antenna through HD D* Box. Does the D* box actually find the channels coming in through the antenna? I have always ordered my locals through D*, but when I go HD, I might forgo the HD package and just get OTA for now. This way I'll have my OTA and HBO in HD.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Quick question regarding OTA antenna through HD D* Box. Does the D* box actually find the channels coming in through the antenna? I have always ordered my locals through D*, but when I go HD, I might forgo the HD package and just get OTA for now. This way I'll have my OTA and HBO in HD.


All DirecTV HD receivers will receive OTA HD too; the HR10-250 just needs to be subscribed for full features; without a DirecTV subscription, it offers just 30-minute buffering on OTA channels.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Finnstang said:


> Your assumption is correct about the meanings. As far as which is better, I would think that a better mutli-directional antenna would be better than a crappy uni-directional, so it could depend somewhat.


But if they only want to receive channels from one direction...and are possibly 'between markets', or have other signal issues, wouldn't a multidirectional actually introduce unnecessary signals from adjacent areas?

Philly has most of the towers (except pbs) generally in one spot. So I'd think multidirectional wouldn't be a good choice for this specific application.


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## Finnstang (Sep 11, 2003)

newsposter said:


> But if they only want to receive channels from one direction...and are possibly 'between markets', or have other signal issues, wouldn't a multidirectional actually introduce unnecessary signals from adjacent areas?
> 
> Philly has most of the towers (except pbs) generally in one spot. So I'd think multidirectional wouldn't be a good choice for this specific application.


Possibly. That is why I left myself an out. I said it _could depend_.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I emailed solidsignal and they suggested I get a DB4 antenna to get all my OTA channels. 
$70 for it shipped. I guess I will try it if adjusting my current antenna doesn't do the job. Problem is that I can't get Directv to refund me the OTA cost since I never paid anything for it. They gave me an instant credit for it. Damn them. I was hoping I could return it and get them to refund me another $49 bucks to offset the cost.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Finnstang said:


> Possibly. That is why I left myself an out. I said it _could depend_.


yea i thought that was shady being all psychic and all that.

natasnj

the CM 4228 is on sale here, Id personally try that first since it's cheaper

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm 39.50


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

newsposter said:


> natasnj
> 
> the CM 4228 is on sale here, Id personally try that first since it's cheaper
> 
> http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm 39.50


Is that one considered as good/better or comparable to the DB4 model?

I plan to test my current OTA on Saturday and I HOPE I can get it to work for me. But I want to be ready to get a new Antenna if needed..


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

not sure about comparison. I just know it was definitely 'close' to my DB8...at least the winegard version that installer had was. AVS would know more about exact comparisons, sorry I dont. 

but i've read nothing but good about the 4228 here and over there if that helps at all. And i've done a lot of research. only reason i didn't get it that someone 1 mile from me said the DB8 worked for him so i figured it would work for me too!


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> Is that one considered as good/better or comparable to the DB4 model?
> 
> I plan to test my current OTA on Saturday and I HOPE I can get it to work for me. But I want to be ready to get a new Antenna if needed..


The 4228 has more gain than the DB4 across the board. The DB4 is essentially half of a DB8. The DB8 has more gain than a 4228 from channel 52 on up. I have a DB4 and am happy with it, but a 4228 is a better buy/performer.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Thanks AJ.

I was able to get a low 70's signal from channel 10 (NBC) last night and recorded the Office and had no issues with it. (one pop of sound) Still not great as I want the number up in the 80's at least. So I will try and adjust the antenna tomorrow and if I can't get it better I will buy the 4228. Thanks all.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

If the pop is the thing when they are going to/from commercial, you can't do anything about it.


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## scooby_doo_53 (Jul 19, 2004)

I ordered a 4228 from Warren (found the sale on my own). They must be selling a lot of these, as I got an email earlier this week saying they are back ordered. I'm supposed to be getting mine shipped late next week.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

No the pop thing was during the show. Was like the signal may have gotten low enough for a split second and made my receiver lose 5.1 for a split second. No biggie. 

No major pops from commericals...


I do however get a static noise screen (blueish) at random times though. No idea what it is or from. I have gotten it while watching a show from now playing (not part of recording because I can rewind and I don't see it) and also when flipping through SAT & ANT channels. Seems to only happen for a few seconds here and there then doesn't happen again. I almost think it loses the HDMI signal or something from the DirecTVHDVR. Anyone experience this?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Finnstang said:


> Your assumption is correct about the meanings. As far as which is better, I would think that a better mutli-directional antenna would be better than a crappy uni-directional, so it could depend somewhat.


And exactly what it depends on is whether there is multipath interference or not. If there is interference, the best non-directional antenna will still not reject it well, and you will not be as happy as you might have been with a directional antenna, crappy or otherwise. If there is no multipath interference, it doesn't matter and you won't care. So, it depends upon your definitions of "crappy" and "better", both of which might waver a bit depending upon your reception scenario.


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## InertiaGirl (Jan 21, 2006)

Forgive me for what may be a stupid question - when you get your locals over the air and feed them through the HD TiVo, do you need to have a built-in HD tuner on the TV or can you get away with using the DirecTV TiVo as your HD tuner? Also, I'm getting the impression that you can just record all of your shows and season passes normally - how does the TiVo box know what OTA channel corresponds to the channels in its guide?


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

InertiaGirl said:


> Forgive me for what may be a stupid question - when you get your locals over the air and feed them through the HD TiVo, do you need to have a built-in HD tuner on the TV or can you get away with using the DirecTV TiVo as your HD tuner?


Yes, you can use the HD Tivo as your only HDTV receiver.



InertiaGirl said:


> Also, I'm getting the impression that you can just record all of your shows and season passes normally - how does the TiVo box know what OTA channel corresponds to the channels in its guide?


The Directv obtains the information and the HDtivo gets it automatically from them.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

natas how's the setup working out? (blue screen etc)


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Well. The blue screen occurs on both HDMI inputs. So I doubt it is the connector on the TV. 
It comes and goes and I have not seen it for 2 days. But this has happened before.
I still have been lazy about testing it and figuring out what is causing it.

OTA is going well except for NBC. It comes in most of the time pretty good but still will have issues now and then. Since there are no shows right now I care about on NBC other than office I have slacked and just ignored it for now.

I figure once the weather gets a little better and I have a free Saturday I will spend sometime troubleshooting everything more.

Still using Direct supplied Antenna. Been super lazy...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Well the good news is if their antenna works, the new one will definitely be better for you reception wise. Also that blue screen is weird. Thankfully I've never seen it in the 4 mos I had my hdtv.


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