# How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1



## BadCommand

So after spending an excruciating 3 days with the Hydra UI on my Roamio and 6 Mini's (and with nasty family feedback), I posted the request to rollback on the Tivo forum site. I was sent a message to contact Tivo support directly to find out how. Tivo support was very helpful and gave me the following instructions which they OK'd for forum posting. KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING!!!

For the Roamio:
1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun

All in all, the rollback didn't take more than 10-15 minutes HOWEVER once complete and finished Guided Setup on the Roamio, if you have a MOCA Mini network, you'll want to go straight into the Roamio and enable the MOCA Bridge option right away before the Roamio dials back in a 2nd time as that process tied up the Change Network Settings option for a couple hours in my case (YMMV)!

For the Mini's v1 (but I'd guess v2 is the same). Also note, I waited til the Roamio had completely rolled back and I completed Guided Setup before starting this process:
1.a.) Go to Menu- Help- Repeat Guided Setup- press Thumbs Down 3 times and press Enter. OR
1.b.) You'll already see the "downgrade" screen and it will prompt you from there.
2.) You'll now see the "old" Guided Setup. Go thru that so the Mini can phone home.
3.) The Mini will phone home and prompt you once again to go thru Guided Setup.
4.) After the 2nd Guided Setup completion, you should be back in business
5.) Congrats- You've just wasted a better part of a day!
Note: Each time I went thru Guided Setup, my Mini would fail to connect and I would get the Network Connection Error screen (N07). Simply waiting a second or two for the Mini (or Roamio) to gather itself and retrying solved the problem 100% of the time.

Overall, the reason the Hydra UI was such a non-starter for me is that the UI was just too sluggish on my entire system. I feel the code is just too heavy on the Roamio processor and I would guess it would be better on the Bolt. I found the lagginess caused me, and I'm being literal here, a bit of almost anxiousness and stress- it was just that poor performing. With that said, someone else did report they were happy with it on the OTA Roamio- I would guess that's due to the processor workload compared to my cablecard version.

Also- and this was just as important- for whatever the Replay button no longer functions as a alternative Back button. This was posted BEFORE I "upgraded" and I honestly wasn't sure just how critical that darn button was- it is VERY important- especially in the My Shows or anywhere the Tivo button is used. So, as currently laid out a new remote with Back is pretty much mandatory and at $45/each for 7 units- a purchase that I'm just not willing to invest in for something (a.) I felt could be easily overcome by leaving the back function intact, or allowing thru Setup, the remapping of a much less used button. And (b.) if I were going to go that route I would prefer to just apply the funds to purchase of units that were strong enough to carry the Hydra interface.

In summary- returning to the Good "Old" Interface has never felt like a better upgrade!

Hope this helps and Good Luck!


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## PSU_Sudzi

I tested this last night for them and it worked on my Roamio Plus and Mini without a hitch, I’ve not said anything under double secret probation.

Live Guide—giddy up!


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## TivoJD

BadCommand said:


> So after spending an excruciating 3 days with the Hydra UI on my Roamio and 6 Mini's (and with nasty family feedback), I posted the request to rollback on the Tivo forum site. I was sent a message to contact Tivo support directly to find out how. Tivo support was very helpful and gave me the following instructions which they OK'd for forum posting. KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING!!!
> 
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> All in all, the rollback didn't take more than 10-15 minutes HOWEVER once complete and finished Guided Setup on the Roamio, if you have a MOCA Mini network, you'll want to go straight into the Roamio and enable the MOCA Bridge option right away before the Roamio dials back in a 2nd time as that process tied up the Change Network Settings option for a couple hours in my case (YMMV)!
> 
> For the Mini's v1 (but I'd guess v2 is the same). Also note, I waited til the Roamio had completely rolled back and I completed Guided Setup before starting this process:
> 1.a.) Go to Menu- Help- Repeat Guided Setup- press Thumbs Down 3 times and press Enter. OR
> 1.b.) You'll already see the "downgrade" screen and it will prompt you from there.
> 2.) You'll now see the "old" Guided Setup. Go thru that so the Mini can phone home.
> 3.) The Mini will phone home and prompt you once again to go thru Guided Setup.
> 4.) After the 2nd Guided Setup completion, you should be back in business
> 5.) Congrats- You've just wasted a better part of a day!
> Note: Each time I went thru Guided Setup, my Mini would fail to connect and I would get the Network Connection Error screen (N07). Simply waiting a second or two for the Mini (or Roamio) to gather itself and retrying solved the problem 100% of the time.
> 
> Overall, the reason the Hydra UI was such a non-starter for me is that the UI was just too sluggish on my entire system. I feel the code is just too heavy on the Roamio processor and I would guess it would be better on the Bolt. I found the lagginess caused me, and I'm being literal here, a bit of almost anxiousness and stress- it was just that poor performing. With that said, someone else did report they were happy with it on the OTA Roamio- I would guess that's due to the processor workload compared to my cablecard version.
> 
> Also- and this was just as important- for whatever the Replay button no longer functions as a alternative Back button. This was posted BEFORE I "upgraded" and I honestly wasn't sure just how critical that darn button was- it is VERY important- especially in the My Shows or anywhere the Tivo button is used. So, as currently laid out a new remote with Back is pretty much mandatory and at $45/each for 7 units- a purchase that I'm just not willing to invest in for something (a.) I felt could be easily overcome by leaving the back function intact, or allowing thru Setup, the remapping of a much less used button. And (b.) if I were going to go that route I would prefer to just apply the funds to purchase of units that were strong enough to carry the Hydra interface.
> 
> In summary- returning to the Good "Old" Interface has never felt like a better upgrade!
> 
> Hope this helps and Good Luck!


Did this effect cable card pairing at all?


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## PSU_Sudzi

I have Comcast and had no issues with cable card—no changes to anything and premiums work ok.


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## BadCommand

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I tested this last night for them and it worked on my Roamio Plus and Mini without a hitch, I've not said anything under double secret probation.
> 
> Live Guide-giddy up!


LOL- I made it clear to Tivo that I was going to post on this and their Tivo forums and the support tech gave the go ahead.


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## BadCommand

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I have Comcast and had no issues with cable card-no changes to anything and premiums work ok.


No problems with Cox pairing either.


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## PSU_Sudzi

BadCommand said:


> LOL- I made it clear to Tivo that I was going to post on this and their Tivo forums and the support tech gave the go ahead.


TiVo Ted asked me to stay mum until a few more folks tested it and it seems like they had heard back there have been no issues.


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## jackstoker

Was there a stern warning about loosing everything, including all RECORDINGS?


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## PSU_Sudzi

jackstoker said:


> Was there a stern warning about loosing everything, including all RECORDINGS?


Yes there was for me and I was OK with it; only had a couple of shows and backed up one passes, thumbs, channels, etc. with kmttg.


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## ajwees41

did you lose recordings?


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## BadCommand

jackstoker said:


> Was there a stern warning about loosing everything, including all RECORDINGS?


Just the usual warning, The tech made it clear, but I had known that from the minute I signed up as the losing everything fact, as well as the Back button fact are posted on the signup page and I believe on the acknowledgement screens prior to Hydra install.


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## midas

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I tested this last night for them and it worked on my Roamio Plus and Mini without a hitch, I've not said anything under double secret probation.
> 
> Live Guide-giddy up!


Were you able to restore your passes?


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## jackstoker

PSU_Sudzi said:


> TiVo Ted asked me to stay mum until a few more folks tested it and it seems like they had heard back there have been no issues.


TiVo_Ted should really come here, and elsewhere, to make this official (not that I don't trust everyone here)!


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## PSU_Sudzi

midas said:


> Were you able to restore your passes?


Yes I added back all my one passes, thumb ratings, and custom channel list via kmttg. I only had two recordings on it before the reset and had backed them up too but I got an error transferring them back from pyTivo and will just watch them on demand.


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## PSU_Sudzi

ajwees41 said:


> did you lose recordings?


Yes it totally wipes it and sets you back to guided setup as if it were brand new.


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## krkaufman

Any similar process for BOLTs?


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## hammer32

Thank you for posting the instructions. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PSU_Sudzi

krkaufman said:


> Any similar process for BOLTs?


My guess is it would be similar, if you have a Bolt you could try to start the reset using codes above and see if it gets it going (there are prompts before it's erased so you can back out).


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## Mikeguy

krkaufman said:


> Any similar process for BOLTs?


Good point. I just assumed that it would be the same, but would be nice to see it confirmed (or not).


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## TiVo_Ted

jackstoker said:


> TiVo_Ted should really come here, and elsewhere, to make this official (not that I don't trust everyone here)!


Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TiVo_Ted

Mikeguy said:


> Good point. I just assumed that it would be the same, but would be nice to see it confirmed (or not).


It's the same for Roamio and BOLT. After downgrading, you can just connect to the downgraded box from a MINI and it will offer to downgrade as well. No backdoors required on MINI.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## samccfl99

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So it can't/won't ever be changed to at least keep the recordings?


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## ajwees41

samccfl99 said:


> So it can't/won't ever be changed to at least keep the recordings?


it's been said from the start that to go back requires full reinstall of the previous software and wiping the drive don't think it can or will change to keep recordings


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## samccfl99

ajwees41 said:


> it's been said from the start that to go back requires full reinstall of the previous software and wiping the drive don't think it can or will change to keep recordings


Sorry, but are you Ted? I can read and know what has been said for a long time. It is a question for him, if he chooses to answer, but I know the probable answer. I got close to 1,000 recordings on my Roamio Pro. Thanks.

I did not read that it wipes the drive first. It does? Strange.


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## schatham

Thanks for this. Starting the process.

Downgrade went well on Roamio. Sets up just like a new Tivo.

Update: Mini's are all downgraded now also.


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## JoeKustra

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Yes it totally wipes it and sets you back to guided setup as if it were brand new.


This may sound strange, but during guided setup, did it remember the name of your Roamio? I have run GS and replaced the hard drive on a Roamio and it still knows my box's name. Not a 100% wipe.


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## PSU_Sudzi

JoeKustra said:


> This may sound strange, but during guided setup, did it remember the name of your Roamio? I have run GS and replaced the hard drive on a Roamio and it still knows my box's name. Not a 100% wipe.


Good question and I set it up so long ago I don't remember if LROOM was a default choice or if I made it up. But it was there during setup and I guessed that's because of connecting the box with the TSN online.


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## billpiper

Followed the following
For the Roamio:
1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun

Saw the message about the rollback process, after everything was complete I still have Hydra....


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## jmerr74

billpiper said:


> Followed the following
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> Saw the message about the rollback process, after everything was complete I still have Hydra....


Oh man...roll back...lose everything and still be stuck with Hydra? I would go bananas!


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## PSU_Sudzi

billpiper said:


> Followed the following
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> Saw the message about the rollback process, after everything was complete I still have Hydra....


Wow, I would send a message to TiVo Ted and let him know.


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## billpiper

I had downloaded recordings through kmttg....


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## billpiper

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Wow, I would send a message to TiVo Ted and let him know.


Thanks, trying it again...maybe it will work this time


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## thalador

I am in the process of downloading and transferring recordings now with the intent to roll back. Will do bolt after transferring to roamio and then xfer back to bolt after downgrade.


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## chiguy50

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. *We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.*


*@TiVo_Ted*: I hope that you (and your chain of command) appreciate just how much of a positive difference your interactive presence here means to us--and to the eventual success of Hydra. You are following in the giant footsteps of TiVoMargret (and a handful of others).

I am among the TiVo devotees who were eager to upgrade to Hydra on day one; however, given the initial bugs and missing features, I have decided to hold off until I feel it will be an overall positive change for my usage case. I am rooting for that day to come sooner rather than later, and I feel hopeful that your personal efforts will contribute to hastening its arrival.

Thanks for all you do.


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## TonyD79

JoeKustra said:


> This may sound strange, but during guided setup, did it remember the name of your Roamio? I have run GS and replaced the hard drive on a Roamio and it still knows my box's name. Not a 100% wipe.


Names of machines are also stored in the TiVo cloud by service number. It could've pulled it down during the guided setup.


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## jackstoker

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.


Thanks Ted! I really appreciate your being active on TCF! Hopefully you will continue even after getting past the Hydra growing pangs.

Can you please tell us why, technically, the recordings have to be lost when reverting to Gen3?

And please tell us why, technically, transfers from a computer to TiVo can't be restored. I really do want to try Hydra, but can't without the computer to TiVo transfer ability.


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## billpiper

billpiper said:


> Thanks, trying it again...maybe it will work this time


Third try worked... thanks again


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## samccfl99

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Yes I added back all my one passes, thumb ratings, and custom channel list via kmttg. I only had two recordings on it before the reset and had backed them up too but I got an error transferring them back from pyTivo and will just watch them on demand.


Isn't PyTivo supposed to be able to transfer pc to tivo using Gen3? How do you do that? Since I cannot transfer some old recordings to my XL4, but they do download via KMTTG, can't I then shoot them up to my XL4 from my PC? I looked to see if this could be done with KMTTG, but was told it does not have that function. No wonder I couldn't find it...LOL

Thanks


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## TiVo_Ted

BadCommand said:


> LOL- I made it clear to Tivo that I was going to post on this and their Tivo forums and the support tech gave the go ahead.


Yet another example of them going off script. I was waiting to post until we had a few people go through this successfully. On your instructions, there is an easier way to downgrade the MINI's. After downgrading your DVR, go to the MINI, Devices setup and reconnect your host DVR to your newly downgraded DVR. The MINI should immediately prompt you to downgrade and walk you through the process.


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## TiVo_Ted

samccfl99 said:


> So it can't/won't ever be changed to at least keep the recordings?


I'm talking to the engineering team about how this might work. It would likely require a change to the DVR client code.


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## jackstoker

samccfl99 said:


> Isn't PyTivo supposed to be able to transfer pc to tivo using Gen3? How do you do that? Since I cannot transfer some old recordings to my XL4, but they do download via KMTTG, can't I then shoot them up to my XL4 from my PC? I looked to see if this could be done with KMTTG, but was told it does not have that function. No wonder I couldn't find it...LOL


kmttg can copy recordings from a Gen3 TiVo to a computer, but not from a computer to TiVo (I don't know why). BUT, pyTiVo, or pyTivo Desktop, can copy in both directions. Lots of info about pyTivo Desktop HERE.


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## DougCA

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.


Personally, I really appreciate BadCommand posting the downgrade steps. My household was close to mutiny due to the upgrade.

To be very specific, it had nothing to do with the new look or features. 100% of the dissatisfaction in my home was due to the large volume of glitches and bugs we experienced. I submitted an online support request at tivo.com and received no response.

A short (but not exhaustive) list of issues:

1) The channel info bar showed program data for the wrong channels/market (Guide data was correct)
2) The channel info bar would show "Title not available" for channels whose data was clearly displayed in the guide
4) Channel up/down would randomly stop working and you'd need to visit the guide to change channels (This would be coincident with the "Title not available" issue. If this was displayed, channel up/down would stop working)
5) Channels would randomly disappear from the guide (and no ... people were not editing the channel list)
6) Tivo minis would randomly complain about cable card issues (There is no cable card -- it is an OTA setup)
7) Tivo minis would have empty guide data (no channels) We'd have to regularly re-select the host DVR to get the data back.

There are more, but you get the gist. Before someone suggests a network or equipment problem, everything worked correctly before the Hydra "upgrade" and works correctly again after the downgrade.


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## cherry ghost

It should be pointed out that when transferring from PC to TiVo with pyTiVo, the transfer is initiated from the TiVo.


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## samccfl99

cherry ghost said:


> It should be pointed out that when transferring from PC to TiVo with pyTiVo, the transfer is initiated from the TiVo.


Where are some simple instructions, please? The help thread is 71 pages and his link to his website is not very helpful. Thanks.


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## samccfl99

jackstoker said:


> kmttg can copy recordings from a Gen3 TiVo to a computer, but not from a computer to TiVo (I don't know why). BUT, pyTiVo, or pyTivo Desktop, can copy in both directions. Lots of info about pyTivo Desktop HERE.


Where are some simple instructions, please? The help thread is 71 pages and his link to his website is not very helpful. Thanks.


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## cherry ghost

samccfl99 said:


> Where are some simple instructions, please? The help thread is 71 pages and his link to his website is not very helpful. Thanks.


I use regular pyTiVo, not pyTiVo Desktop. It's been so long since I put it on my computer I wouldn't know where to to start with instructions.


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## reneg

I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but it is worth repeating. Before starting the downgrade process, you can use kmttg to backup your one passes, thumb ratings, and custom channel list.


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## TonyD79

reneg said:


> I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but it is worth repeating. Before starting the downgrade process, you can use kmttg to backup your one passes, thumb ratings, and custom channel list.


And that should be a Tivo service. Fios even has that. When you get a new box (if the old one isn't fried), they advise you to do a backup so you can restore it when you get the new box. Saves everything but recordings (legal issues there).


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## Mikeguy

samccfl99 said:


> Where are some simple instructions, please? The help thread is 71 pages and his link to his website is not very helpful. Thanks.


There aren't any, unfortunately. But hopefully, you will find the few settings and operations easy enough to scan through and complete, and people are more than willing to explain any matter at the thread. And the installation itself is a piece of cake.


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## PSU_Sudzi

samccfl99 said:


> Isn't PyTivo supposed to be able to transfer pc to tivo using Gen3? How do you do that? Since I cannot transfer some old recordings to my XL4, but they do download via KMTTG, can't I then shoot them up to my XL4 from my PC? I looked to see if this could be done with KMTTG, but was told it does not have that function. No wonder I couldn't find it...LOL
> 
> Thanks


Yes pyTivo allows you to send shows from your PC to your TiVo on gen3 so I think what you suggest would work.


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## samccfl99

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Yes pyTivo allows you to send shows from your PC to your TiVo on gen3 so I think what you suggest would work.


You would think, right? LOL. Well I found out how to transfer from pc to tivo using pytivo when someone said it had to be done from the tivo itself. So I see the folders from my pc and I transferred a recording that I know transferred ok from RP to XL4 and it worked fine, but when I tried one that transfers screwed up AND IT TOO transferred a bad one with the name and info of the first entry! Son of a B. I give up...LOL


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## PSU_Sudzi

samccfl99 said:


> You would think, right? LOL. Well I found out how to transfer from pc to tivo using pytivo when someone said it had to be done from the tivo itself. So I see the folders from my pc and I transferred a recording that I know transferred ok from RP to XL4 and it worked fine, but when I tried one that transfers screwed up AND IT TOO transferred a bad one with the name and info of the first entry! Son of a B. I give up...LOL


Yes, you need to "pull" the file from the TiVo after you start pyTivo. I had a similar problem with a couple of recordings that wouldn't transfer and just will watch them on demand instead.


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## samccfl99

But I pulled the files from the tivo with kmttg and they are fine on the pc, which is the one I used. You think I need to pull it with Pytivo? what would be the diff?


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## PSU_Sudzi

samccfl99 said:


> But I pulled the files from the tivo with kmttg and they are fine on the pc, which is the one I used. You think I need to pull it with Pytivo? what would be the diff?


From trying to research the problem I had it seems pyTivo didn't like the copies I made from kmttg and wouldn't complete the transfer. For two recordings I didn't think it was worth my time to investigate further. Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## JACKASTOR

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I tested this last night for them and it worked on my Roamio Plus and Mini without a hitch, I've not said anything under double secret probation.
> 
> Live Guide-giddy up!


I am able to bring up the downgrade options on my BoLt. But I am not downgrading.


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## samccfl99

PSU_Sudzi said:


> From trying to research the problem I had it seems pyTivo didn't like the copies I made from kmttg and wouldn't complete the transfer. For two recordings I didn't think it was worth my time to investigate further. Sorry I can't be of more help.


Thanks for trying. Same thing happened when I pulled and pushed with pytivo. Maybe I will ask Moyekj in his thread about the info problem. Thanks again.

Sorry for the little off topic in here, everyone...


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## krkaufman

krkaufman said:


> Any similar process for BOLTs?





PSU_Sudzi said:


> My guess is it would be similar, if you have a Bolt you could try to start the reset using codes above and see if it gets it going (there are prompts before it's erased so you can back out).





TiVo_Ted said:


> It's the same for Roamio and BOLT.


Indeed. The above "Roamio" steps worked to initiate the downgrade process on my BOLT, displaying the attached warning dialog as confirmation:







​I apparently failed to follow the precise button sequence on my first try, prompting my original post. Thanks all.

p.s. At least for the present I'm sticking with Hydra (until I get my OnePasses backed-up), so I can't say whether selecting the downgrade option required any additional confirmations.


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## PSU_Sudzi

krkaufman said:


> Indeed. The above "Roamio" steps worked to initiate the downgrade process on my BOLT, displaying the attached warning dialog as confirmation:
> 
> View attachment 31265
> ​I apparently failed to follow the precise button sequence on my first try, prompting my original post. Thanks all.
> 
> p.s. At least for the present I'm sticking with Hydra (until I get my OnePasses backed-up), so I can't say whether selecting the downgrade option required any additional confirmations.


There may have been one final confirmation after that selection but can't recall, you're teetering on the edge!


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## dslunceford

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.


That's great to hear. I've held off for my Roamio Pro/Minis, primarily due to the live guide (and back function on dpad)...which will just be a heavy lift in terms of change for our family which has had TiVo now for 17+ years. A lot of the other features and design are really desireable, but function always trumps design for me.


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## ClearToLand

samccfl99 said:


> *Isn't PyTivo supposed to be able to transfer pc to tivo using Gen3?* How do you do that? Since I cannot transfer some old recordings to my XL4, but they do download via KMTTG, can't I then shoot them up to my XL4 from my PC? I looked to see if this could be done with KMTTG, but was told it does not have that function. No wonder I couldn't find it...LOL
> 
> Thanks


pyTiVo and pyTiVo Desktop are two-way; kmttg is one-way (TiVo-to-PC).


samccfl99 said:


> *Where are some simple instructions, please?* The help thread is 71 pages and his link to his website is not very helpful. Thanks.


IMO, @wmcbrine pyTiVo and @moyekj kmttg are 'Advanced / Expert-Level' programs and @Dan203 pyTiVo Desktop is the 'Follow the Wizard' version - i.e. you can (just about) CLICK on the pyTiVo Desktop install program and EVERYTHING will be set up for you (DO NOT INSTALL AS A SERVICE!!!).

pyTiVo and kmttg need lots of pre-install reading, accompanying manual install of required packages, and, for kmttg, substantial post-install reading of the EXCELLENT, well-maintained Wiki. While pyTiVo Desktop does simplify the installation of pyTiVo-like functionality, nothing comes close to the versatility of kmttg.

Transferring shows between TiVo-to-PC and then back PC-to-TiVo SUCCESSFULLY is NOT a cut-and-dry 'simple' process - there are many pitfalls, seldom discussed nowadays (maybe they were when pyTiVo and kmttg were first introduced years ago). If you wish to learn more and are willing to invest several hours / days of your time, SEARCH TCF for my UserID posts from May/June 2017 discussing:
TS Sync Errors (vs Closed Caption Errors)
TS 'Fast' Format Transfers vs PS 'Slow' Format Transfers
"0x47 every 188"
Like the saying "Fast, Good, Cheap - Pick Two", if you're in a hurry / are impatient, try pyTiVo Desktop. For more features, try kmttg (w/VideoReDo). Once you begin reading, you'll have a better understanding but, IMO, no one can give you a complete education / picture in one or two posts - you need to invest the time.

Best of Luck!


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## reneg

TiVo_Ted said:


> ....For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.


I completed the rollback of the UI on the one Tivo that I tried Hydra out on. I'm willing to give Hydra another chance in the future, and I'm hopeful that the missing functionality makes it way into Hydra. One thing that Tivo can do to help people sample the new UI is to not make the rollback process punitive.


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## atmuscarella

reneg said:


> I completed the rollback of the UI on the one Tivo that I tried Hydra out on. I'm willing to give Hydra another chance in the future, and I'm hopeful that the missing functionality makes it way into Hydra. One thing that Tivo can do to help people sample the new UI is to not make the rollback process punitive.


I agree if the process was as simple as changing between the SDUI & HDUI on the Premieres I would be trying the new Hydra UI.


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## zalusky

I think it would be kind of cool to have a web gui that would let you try it out without installing it.


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## rodney111

Thank you, thank you, thank you for these instructions!


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## samccfl99

zalusky said:


> I think it would be kind of cool to have a web gui that would let you try it out without installing it.


LOL, they can't even provide a proper rollback or not have major problems and have a new UI that who designed and tested and debuged and beta'd....and you want them to build a special website to simulate Gen4???

You don't know Tivo, Inc/Rovi/whomever Devlopment, do you?


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## samccfl99

ClearToLand said:


> pyTiVo and pyTiVo Desktop are two-way; kmttg is one-way (TiVo-to-PC).
> 
> Best of Luck!


I figured it out 15 posts ago, but thanks. I use KMTTG a lot and never went from pc-tivo before. I can pull a file from the tivo and push it with pytivo to my tivos fine. I guess not on Gen4 yet, but I won't go near it for a long time to come. Oh well!


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## dslunceford

zalusky said:


> I think it would be kind of cool to have a web gui that would let you try it out without installing it.


Yeah, my Roamio Pro stays at a constant 80% full on a 3TB Drive (with movies and such). I'm not inclined to lose that content.


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## kes601

I did the rollback myself this morning. Of course I "exported" instead of "saved" out of kmttg so I had to recreate everything, but it didn't take too long using Tivo Online to recreate my One Passes. Glad to have my old Tivo back.


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## rodney111

samccfl99 said:


> LOL, they can't even provide a proper rollback or not have major problems and have a new UI that who designed and tested and debuged and beta'd....and you want them to build a special website to simulate Gen4???
> 
> You don't know Tivo, Inc/Rovi/whomever Devlopment, do you?


Definitely not a good 2017 Christmas gift. Hopefully by Valentine's Day or Easter it will be more functional.


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## bob61

SMH.... How could TiVo have released the Hydra UI for Roamio units with the significant issues that have been found? Glad I didn't bite on the "upgrade".

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## osu1991

Its working just fine on my Roamio


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## lparsons21

osu1991 said:


> Its working just fine on my Roamio


Mine too, as well as the Bolt and 2nd gen Mini. A few minor inconveniences but nothing earth shattering imo.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## ronmojohny

I tried Hydra on my Roamio & 2 Minis, and it lost connection to my cable card 5 different times. I had to restart the Roamio to get it working again. (Then, of course, I had to restart the Minis every time too) I like the new interface.. (Can we PLEASE keep the old guide?) I rolled it back for now, and I'll wait until the bugs get worked out before I upgrade again.


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## samccfl99

dslunceford said:


> Yeah, my Roamio Pro stays at a constant 80% full on a 3TB Drive (with movies and such). I'm not inclined to lose that content.


Mine was well over 95% for months (due to something about politics???) and I kept looking on Ebay and got a good used 2TB LS XL4 just for storage for $210. They work fine in SD mode and with Moca there is no problem watching from my Roamio Pro or Mini. The only thing is that they never put in SkipMode for Series4. I do not know why. It should be able to handle it in SD Mode, which is what it is in and usually on Standby (can still transfer and watch from it when in that mode). Now my RP is at about 83% and over 10% of that is current, deletable stuff I have not watched yet. The XL4 is at 59%. I moved a lot of older stuff over that did not have SM.

I won't upgrade until they put the Live Guide back and wait at least 2-3 Major releases.


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## Rkkeller

I just see "Ignored User" is that old troll here too?


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## samccfl99

Rkkeller said:


> I just see "Ignored User" is that old troll here too?


OH, Am I the Ignored User and you are talking to me (and not only in this thread)? How childish. I do not bash people...I know better than that and not to Report rude people, although nothing would make "this old troll" happier...

SAD...says something...oh now look what you made me do. I hardly ever lookup people.

Joined: May 13, 2004
Messages: 1,312
Likes Received: 13


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## bluraven

I am so screwed. I want to roll back my roamio but I want to keep all my recordings, onepasses, thumb ratings etc. I don't want to spend days researching pytivo and kmttg and more days transferring the recordings. I probably should have pulled my drive and cloned it before moving to hydra. My bad. So what's the best way to do this? Use kmttg to back up my onepasses and thumbs from hydra? And then pyTivo desktop to transfer recordings to pc? Then roll back, and try and transfer everything back? Or should I just wait for Tivo to realize how bad Hydra is and to make a smoother roll back process that doesn't involve a full wipe? Uhg.


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## PSU_Sudzi

bluraven said:


> I am so screwed. I want to roll back my roamio but I want to keep all my recordings, onepasses, thumb ratings etc. I don't want to spend days researching pytivo and kmttg and more days transferring the recordings. I probably should have pulled my drive and cloned it before moving to hydra. My bad. So what's the best way to do this? Use kmttg to back up my onepasses and thumbs from hydra? And then pyTivo desktop to transfer recordings to pc? Then roll back, and try and transfer everything back? Or should I just wait for Tivo to realize how bad Hydra is and to make a smoother roll back process that doesn't involve a full wipe? Uhg.


How many recordings are you talking about? And how many of them are shows that are copy protected, those cannot be transferred to a PC?


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## ClearToLand

bluraven said:


> ...*I don't want to spend days researching pytivo and kmttg and more days transferring the recordings*...


Pretty much closing all your doors here, aren't you?



PSU_Sudzi said:


> bluraven said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...*I want to roll back my roamio but I want to keep all my recordings*, onepasses, thumb ratings etc.
> 
> 
> 
> *How many recordings are you talking about?* And how many of them are shows that are copy protected, those cannot be transferred to a PC?
Click to expand...

How many came from H.264 source material?

TS 'Fast' Format Transfer is required for H.264 source material but is known for TS Sync Errors. Use PS 'Slow' Format Transfer if possible.



bluraven said:


> ...*I probably should have pulled my drive and cloned it before moving to hydra*...


Wouldn't have helped - HDDs are 'married' to motherboards and motherboards store the software version.

Sit back, take some deep breaths and decide - if you want to keep your non-protected recordings, you're going to have to invest some time. And, TiVo units transfer best when idle / in Standby mode (all of the CPU is dedicated to the encrypting required for TiVo-to-PC transfers).

Now, whether or not you could buy another TiVo on gen3 and transfer the non-protected recordings there, someone more knowledgeable than me on gen4 would have to reply.

Best of luck in whatever you decide.


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## bluraven

It's about 286 HD hours worth of recordings. Don't know how many are protected probably most are not. Assume most or all is h264. I have an old series 4 premier that I could transfer everything to before rolling back the roamio, if that makes things easier somehow.


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## schatham

I rolled back and started fresh. I finished watching all my must series over the summer, so it was not as bad as it seems.

I plan to add 1P's as needed, not just load them all up. If your OTA it can be a sacrifice. I have Comcast and most cable shows are repeated over and over, same for HBO. Plus with on demand any lost shows can be watched. 

It was defiantly worth rolling back. Not just because of Live guide, but the my shows area is so much better along with most everything else. I will never use Hydra again.


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## bluraven

I would love to keep just 6 recordings and start mostly fresh, but SO of course wants to keep 40 episodes of one show and all seasons of another etc. I should have known better than to mess with a good thing. Doh.


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## PSU_Sudzi

kmttg is easy to use to copy shows over—but you could run into problems using pyTivo copying them back. I had used it successfully and I saved two episodes of Shark Tank before my Hydra upgrade. After I rolled back to gen3, my transfers from the PC back to my TiVo were unsuccessful, they stopped and threw an “expected file size error”. Searching for that here on TCF seemed to indicate a problem with the initial save to PC...so you can’t tell if it won’t work until you copy them all over and erase the TiVo and then you can’t go back and copy them again.


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## HerronScott

bluraven said:


> It's about 286 HD hours worth of recordings. Don't know how many are protected probably most are not. Assume most or all is h264. I have an old series 4 premier that I could transfer everything to before rolling back the roamio, if that makes things easier somehow.


That should work but you'll need to select each show one at a time to transfer.

Scott


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## Finalrinse

This morning I rolled back (2) Roamio's and (5) Mini's. I knew I was losing all my recordings, season passes etc... My system needed a good house cleaning anyway. A fresh start is sometimes good!
All is well now and everyone is happy. I will try Hydra again when appropriate.


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## midas

ClearToLand said:


> "Wouldn't have helped - HDDs are 'married' to motherboards and motherboards store the software version.


It should still work if you do it in the right order.

Clone drive
Do upgrade
Realize it was a mistake
Do downgrade
Swap drives

The downgrade wipes the drive but puts the stamp back on the MB that says it's gen3. When you put the cloned drive back in you've got all your recordings and you're still on the gen3.

I doubt making a clone after the upgrade would work. But I think if the clone is from before the upgrade it should work.


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## bluraven

Another satisfied gen3 household. Was able to transfer nearly everything by old TiVo Desktop. Transferred my one passes to the premier, then 'downgraded' (more like an upgrade to me), then copied one passes back from premier. Now just transferring the few shows back and the rest of the 176 recordings are going onto Plex. Last concern is do I need to contact Tivo to remove my TSN from the Hydra list? Or was that only a one time deal and won't be sent the update unless I request it again? Thanks guys for all your suggestions and help! So good to be back to the way it was.


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## jimbop99

I rolled back today. Wife wasn't happy and small issues bugging me. Especially the glitch with the minis and live tv. Maybe at a later date I'll try again.


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## Bryan Lyle

Ditto. Rolled back today because wife hated Hydra. Happy Wife = Happy Life (well, sometimes)....


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## skaggs

V66 error is intolerable. Rolled back this afternoon.


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## altern8545

so glad i found this thread, i was afraid i was stuck in Hydra hell until a fix was released for the myriad of issues that has been cover extensively in this forum. while i was not thrilled about starting from zero, at least there was a way to roll back at all.

hydra feels rushed and could have benefited with a wider and longer beta period. outside of the bugs, the UI change is perplexing. one of the main reasons i chose Tivo was for its intuitive UI and responsive menus. with hydra, i lost both.


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## idksmy

There are not a ‘myriad’ of issues. There are a handful of issues mentioned over and over again, in multiple threads, by professional backseat beta testers with 20/20 hindsight.


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## altern8545

Yes, that is exactly what we signed up for when we dropped close to a grand on a DVR system. 

Beta testing.


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## idksmy

altern8545 said:


> Yes, that is exactly what we signed up for when we dropped close to a grand on a DVR system.
> 
> Beta testing.


VOLUNTARY testing.


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## ADG

idksmy said:


> VOLUNTARY testing.


Well, no - not exactly. If you purchase the VOX remote control you must install Hydra for voice control to work.


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## atmuscarella

idksmy said:


> VOLUNTARY testing.


For existing users it is voluntary, but if anyone buys/sets up new equipment - even left over white Bolts or Roamio OTAs during setup they auto load Hydra. There is no apparent way for a user not reading these forums to know or understand they have an option. I understand why TiVo has done what they did, but certainly would not be giving them a pass on this release, it could only be considered ready for prime time, if a new user could go out and buy new DVRs & Minis and be able to set them up and work without issues. Sure doesn't seem like that is the case. Plus I have some issues with auto setting up Hydra on new non-VOX equipment and not auto providing them with free VOX remotes.


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## stini777

atmuscarella said:


> it could only be considered ready for prime time, if a new user could go out and buy new DVRs & Minis and be able to set them up and work without issues.


I totally agree with you on this. I went to Best Buy, purchased a Vox Mini, brought it home, updated to Hydra and I'm now dealing with being told I have no channels and can't playback recorded shows because I have the audacity to have my parental controls activated. Can you imagine if I was a new user and dropped $1,000+ on new equipment (1 TB Bolt, 4 Minis - my current configuration)?? I wouldn't have been able to return it fast enough. Those Bolt Vox units are on retail shelves - this update is not a beta release. It's normal to expect minor bugs and annoyances in a new interface (like the guide defaulting to channel 2) but it's not normal for all of your channels to be missing on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis. It's not ready, plain and simple.


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## Mikeguy

idksmy said:


> There are not a 'myriad' of issues. There are a handful of issues mentioned over and over again, in multiple threads, by *professional backseat beta testers with 20/20 hindsight*.


Sorry, but that's not a fair characterization. Instead, the issues are being detected my numerous consumers, many upon a new box purchase, who enjoy their boxes and simply want them to work well. Nothing "20/20 hindsight" about it--it's from regular use, and almost immediately. Nor is there/should there be anything "beta" about it--the UI formally was released.

And if the OP believes that he/she encountered a "myriad" of issues, I'm not sure that any of us not familiar with what the OP found can disagree with the OP's experience.


idksmy said:


> VOLUNTARY testing.


But Hydra wasn't released as a beta product, was it? Certainly not for those consumers who purchased a Vox box and had their boxes install it automatically. And many of whom would have no idea that it's "voluntary," without researching here or elsewhere or contacting TiVo support as to how to revert to the earlier software.


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## stile99

idksmy said:


> There are not a 'myriad' of issues. There are a handful of issues mentioned over and over again, in multiple threads, by professional backseat beta testers with 20/20 hindsight.


There is literally an entire thread dedicated to issues TiVo admits to and is tracking. But nice try.


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## idksmy

stile99 said:


> There is literally an entire thread dedicated to issues TiVo admits to and is tracking. But nice try.


I *know* there's an entire thread.

The point is, how many different issues are there versus people posting 'me too'?

Nice try.


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## CoxInPHX

samccfl99 said:


> The only thing is that they never put in SkipMode for Series4. I do not know why.


Series 4 should have SkipMode, (although I have seen others say they do not have it) both my XL4 and 2-Tuner Premiere both got SkipMode, call TiVo support and ask them to check for the SkipMode flag or tag.


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## HerronScott

CoxInPHX said:


> Series 4 should have SkipMode, (although I have seen others say they do not have it) both my XL4 and 2-Tuner Premiere both got SkipMode, call TiVo support and ask them to check for the SkipMode flag or tag.


You should have been posting in the thread in the Premiere forum on this! I think Keven (kmttg) was the only other one that I recall indicating they had actually received it on a Premiere (and lots of people indicating they hadn't and TiVo Support indicating that they shouldn't). 

Scott


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## samccfl99

CoxInPHX said:


> Series 4 should have SkipMode, (although I have seen others say they do not have it) both my XL4 and 2-Tuner Premiere both got SkipMode, call TiVo support and ask them to check for the SkipMode flag or tag.


Well sorry this got in the wrong place, and it was only a comment on the end of a post, but I will reply here and sorry if it is in the wrong thread Scott. There are many threads where posts should not be...LOL.

The only thing I have to say is that, like Scott said, you seem to be the only one who says they have it on a Premiere (EDIT..,that I have seen...). I got a used LS one a few months ago and it came wiped so it Immediately put 20.7.4 on it. I can't test it recording-wise because I just use it for storage and it is not hooked up to the cable (no M-Card). I do know that if I transfer a Skip recording from my Roamio Pro to it, it loses the Skip.

*Call Tivo Support???* 

Maybe Ted will see this...


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## HerronScott

samccfl99 said:


> The only thing I have to say is that, like Scott said, you seem to be the only one who says they have it on a Premiere.


Not quite true as Kevin (kmttg) also indicated that his Premiere's had SkipMode after the update.

Scott


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## samccfl99

HerronScott said:


> Not quite true as Kevin (kmttg) also indicated that his Premiere's had SkipMode after the update.
> 
> Scott


So you think it's worth calling support about? I don't. Maybe I will ask in an email. I think in the beginning of the move out of the country, the emails still went to CO (mostly because I got a callback once from them about the QM problem in 20.7.2). It would be nice if they add it. I am sure it could handle it running at least in SD mode!


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## SandiMacD

On rolling back Hydra that came with Roamio OTA last week: 

I was attempting to downgrade at 11 pm and it would not let me. Instead a message displayed saying an upgrade was scheduled for 2:30 am and to try later. 

I got around it by unplugging and then disconnecting the Ethernet cable (I never connected over wifi) before restarting. I was then able to go far enough to get to the 2 thumbs down but it never accepted the remaining steps. After my third attempt, I entered the 2 thumbs down, reconnected the Ethernet and this time when I entered the 2 rewinds and select, it accepted the commands and downgraded. 

Took less than 10 min to downgrade, restart. 10 min to go through setup and pull down zip programing and 10 to tweak my channel, userand guide setting preferences to how I like them. I then set up a few recordings and OTA season passes and transferred one recording back from my Premier. (I transferred all the recordings I wanted to keep over to the Premier before downgrading the Roanio. The whole thing took 38 minutes over my FiOS 75mbs.


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## SandiMacD

JoeKustra said:


> This may sound strange, but during guided setup, did it remember the name of your Roamio? I have run GS and replaced the hard drive on a Roamio and it still knows my box's name. Not a 100% wipe.


 I had named mine Roamio OTA. I did that online under the Activation menu. After the Rollback, that was the first name to pick from on the guided setup menu. That same menu offers you to give it a Custom name.


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## SandiMacD

HerronScott said:


> That should work but you'll need to select each show one at a time to transfer.
> 
> Scott


I went to Tivo online, checked boxes of everything to transfer to the old Premiere. That process took a couple of minutes. Each show took took 5-8 min over a direct Ethernet connection. After down grade I repeated it to get them all back on the new Roamio.


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## SandiMacD

schatham said:


> I rolled back and started fresh. I finished watching all my must series over the summer, so it was not as bad as it seems.
> I plan to add 1P's as needed, not just load them all up. If your OTA it can be a sacrifice. I have Comcast and most cable shows are repeated over and over, same for HBO. Plus with on demand any lost shows can be watched.


I went to Tivo Online before downgrade and transferred the one passes I wanted to keep over to my other Tivo. I have done that for a few years now as one TiVo was a 2 ch and one a 4 ch. When transferring passes online it remembers all the past shows recorded and keeps the preferences of each pass. Then I transferred the passes back to the downgraded TiVo.

So if you have more than one Tivo this is a good way to store passes you want move back.


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## atmuscarella

I am bumping this back to the top for those who might be looking for it. First post gives the instructions on how to role Hydra back to the old HDUI.


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## TheWizz

Many thanks for these detailed downgrade instructions to get rid of Hydra. I purchased a white BOLT OTA last week when they had the product and lifetime subscription sale to replace a Roamio OTA and it initially setup with the new GUI. :confounded: I upgraded the HD on the BOLT and am doing a like-for-like copy of OnePass Manager and most recordings, so didn't mind going through this since I still have the Roamio OTA to retrieve passes and recordings from. My steps were a bit different from Roamio, but it was 12AM when I did it, so may not be 100% accurate.  

For the BOLT:
1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind (left arrow from Select) 2 times, (I don't believe I hit "Select" at this point and yet it showed the large right arrow just before commencing the downgrade process)
3.) The BOLT then prompted me with a screen telling me I am attempting a downgrade of the GUI and to press thumbs down 3 times and then Enter (not Select) to confirm I indeed wanted to get rid of the glorious Hydra.
4.) I did as asked and it then commenced the downgrade of the GUI. :handfist: I received a "network error" after 5 min. and it asked me to try again, which I did, and it was successful on the second attempt. Took about 15 min. Now I'm back to the good ole GUI like on the Roamios, which I prefer...

I did try and do a mass transfer of a few hundred shows (~1.5TB of space) from my Roamio OTA to the new BOLT OTA via online.tivo.com (before attempting the downgrade) since the transfer option isn't there on Hydra, and it would run for a few hours (and transfer some shows) and just quit transferring and not restart. No explanation, no errors, and balance of shows were (stuck) in the "To Do List" still. I have Gbit ethernet in home, so not a wireless or bandwidth issue. Rebooted the BOLT and the "To Do List" of transfers was removed and no longer there. Chalked it up to the BOLT Hydra GUI. After doing the downgrade on the BOLT last night, tried it (mass transfers) again via the online.tivo.com screen and when I got up this AM, it had failed again sometime overnight (~5 hrs timeframe). Strange..... I went into the BOLT and manually did a transfer recording from each show on the Roamio OTA since that option is back via the downgrade (yes, that did take a while to do) and it's been running around 11 hours so far and (knock on wood!) hasn't failed yet. Anyone else have problems doing mass transfers via the online method vs. one-by-one on the TiVo direct? Just curious. :smirk:


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## Bruc

TheWizz, thanks for your instructions for downgrading a bolt. It helped me with my new Bolt (with a minor correction in step 2.)

_2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind (left arrow from Select) 2 times, (I don't believe I hit "Select" at this point and yet it showed the large right arrow just before commencing the downgrade process)_

Actually, from my experience, the REWIND button is the "double left arrow" which is to the left of the pause button.

I can confirm that I did NOT press "Select" before seeing the the large right arrow just before commencing the downgrade progress.


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## TheWizz

Just a quick follow-up: after starting the "pull" transfers to the BOLT over from the Roamio yesterday, I awoke this morning to find that the 1.5TB of recordings had completed the copy process with no failures or stoppages. From my experiences, the pull transfer between TiVos is much more reliable vs. the online.tivo.com transfer options, at least for a large volume (100s) of shows like I attempted.


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## TheWizz

Bruc said:


> TheWizz, thanks for your instructions for downgrading a bolt. It helped me with my new Bolt (with a minor correction in step 2.)
> 
> _2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind (left arrow from Select) 2 times, (I don't believe I hit "Select" at this point and yet it showed the large right arrow just before commencing the downgrade process)_
> 
> Actually, from my experience, the REWIND button is the "double left arrow" which is to the left of the pause button.
> 
> I can confirm that I did NOT press "Select" before seeing the the large right arrow just before commencing the downgrade progress.


Thanks for the update and info. Like I mentioned, I was doing this around midnight, so my eyes were getting blurred so could have been the "other left arrows" that I pressed.


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## UCLABB

TheWizz said:


> Thanks for the update and info. Like I mentioned, I was doing this around midnight, so my eyes were getting blurred so could have been the "other left arrows" that I pressed.


Just did my Bolt+ and I didn't see any large arrow. I'm pretty sure I hit select. Then, instead of reading the screen instruction ikept hitting select on confirm before seeing I had to do the thumbs and enter..

Big thanks to Bad Command and you Wizz . The instructions were thorough and very helpful.


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## egutwillig

I was unable to get my Romeo to downgrade on 11/30. I called support two times and was told that there is a system issue and that engineering was working on the issue. Can anyone else confirm the “network issue” or am I getting the runaround?


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## UCLABB

egutwillig said:


> I was unable to get my Romeo to downgrade on 11/30. I called support two times and was told that there is a system issue and that engineering was working on the issue. Can anyone else confirm the "network issue" or am I getting the runaround?


Probably the runaround. I just did my Bolt yesterday and it went fine. Describe where it is failing.


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## HuskerMike

I just tried this on my new Roamio OTA that came with Hydra pre-installed. It 100% DOES NOT work.
I tried every combination of the steps listed above, and my new Roamio it seems, is doomed to use the overflowing toilet that is Hydra. Such a shame. That software is a total 4-day-old used-diaper. Tivo - PLEASE give everyone the option to not use this ill-conceived mess. Hydra is the WORST!!! Please give us the option! Or at least put a tiny bit of effort into your UI in the future?!? There is NO excuse for this vomit-filled dumpster-fire.


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## Ted J

I did this on a bolt for my brother just a few days ago and it worked... now on my bolt + it's not working so HuskerMike I'm in a similar boat to you. Anybody got any suggestions? If I cant put this one back going to either have to send it back or have Tivo figure out a way to downgrade for I can't believe they went from the last interface which was pretty darn good to how many steps backwards with that new buggy and not as easy to use interface. I mean only use the back button and can't see on a list what the other tuners are on and just have to use live tv button to go between tuners? (reminds me of windows media center) Really, those were some of the things I liked about Tivo.


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## Ted J

As a FYI, I do the thumbs down twice, then rewind twice and hear a ding and that's it.


----------



## JoeKustra

Ted J said:


> As a FYI, I do the thumbs down twice, then rewind twice and hear a ding and that's it.


True. There should be a new step 1: mute your sound.


----------



## Ted J

Mute the TV? Maybe I am missing something though? Didn't need to do that on my brother's bolt earlier in the week so guess something has changed?


----------



## JoeKustra

Ted J said:


> Mute the TV? Maybe I am missing something though? Didn't need to do that on my brother's bolt earlier in the week so guess something has changed?


I meant the way to avoid the distraction of the error noise when hitting Left is to mute the audio. No effect on the rollback, which I did on a basic Roamio (which I had upgraded). My OTA 1TB BF box was delivered with 20.6.3 installed. It went to Hydra during initial Guided Setup.


----------



## Ted J

I don't know if I understand you... when I did the procedure on the other bolt it went right into another menu before I was able to hit select though I did hit the select. On this one, it's just the ding I hear and then the UI doesn't change and just sits there. So ding or no ding doesn't change the situation that it's not going to the next step and asking me if I want to downgrade. The ding doesn't distract me from anything for it's when another action should be taking place and I'm still hitting the select if that makes sense.

This would really be confusing if I hadn't already done one like within the last 4 or 5 days to see how it was suppose to work.


----------



## Ted J

And yes, on both of them I'm pretty sure during the guided setup is when it did the Hydra update. Wish it would have asked me if I wanted to instead of just doing it.


----------



## ryanmcv

I spent several hours last night trying to rollback my TiVo Mini (TCDA93000) from Hydra with no success. I followed the instructions in the OP to the letter.

I first rolled-back my Roamio Pro and repeated guided setup. I immediately enabled MoCA. Everything worked flawlessly and gen3 is up and running without issue on my Roamio Pro.

Following the OP's instructions, I then repeated guided setup on my Mini. The Guided Setup had the "old" gen3 interface as noted. After the first run through Guided Setup, it said a service update was available and the box would have to restart. After restarting, I had to complete Guided Setup once more. Everything seemed to work fine, but when the Mini finally booted up, Hydra was still installed. I tried completing Guided Setup a few more times with no success.

What am I doing wrong? I can't stand Hydra so I really hope I'm not stuck with it on my Mini.


----------



## schatham

ryanmcv said:


> I spent several hours last night trying to rollback my TiVo Mini (TCDA93000) from Hydra with no success. I followed the instructions in the OP to the letter.
> 
> I first rolled-back my Roamio Pro and repeated guided setup. I immediately enabled MoCA. Everything worked flawlessly and gen3 is up and running without issue on my Roamio Pro.
> 
> Following the OP's instructions, I then repeated guided setup on my Mini. The Guided Setup had the "old" gen3 interface as noted. After the first run through Guided Setup, it said a service update was available and the box would have to restart. After restarting, I had to complete Guided Setup once more. Everything seemed to work fine, but when the Mini finally booted up, Hydra was still installed. I tried completing Guided Setup a few more times with no success.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? I can't stand Hydra so I really hope I'm not stuck with it on my Mini.


Connect your main Tivo to the servers one more time. Then try the mini again.


----------



## jerryez

So, what stops TiVo from downloading the Hydra to your TiVo again?


----------



## djmike0408

jerryez said:


> So, what stops TiVo from downloading the Hydra to your TiVo again?


You have opt into Hydra via the TiVo website.


----------



## atlemar

I just bought a Bolt, my fourth TiVo since 2001, and it came with Hydra. I'm going to try the rollback tonight; if it doesn't work, I'm sending it back and possibly just calling the cable company.

For now, you have to opt into Hydra via the website. Will this always be the case?

Basically, Live Guide is TiVo's value for me; that's why I'm willing to pay the fees. The fact that it's not in Hydra is concerning, but I don't want to make the investment of the Bolt if there's a threat Live Guide will be taken away.


----------



## sfhub

jerryez said:


> So, what stops TiVo from downloading the Hydra to your TiVo again?


There are 2 ways to get Hydra.

You bought your unit after they released Hydra and upon first connect it downloads Hydra.

You opt-in to get Hydra using the web page (or whatever new mechanism they may come up with in the future)

Once you go back to gen3 using the downgrade procedure, it stays there and you have to actively make some effort to go back to Hydra/Gen4.


----------



## sfhub

ryanmcv said:


> I spent several hours last night trying to rollback my TiVo Mini (TCDA93000) from Hydra with no success. I followed the instructions in the OP to the letter.


By far the easiest way to get the proper gen3 or gen4 UI on a Mini is to connect to a DVR running the UI you want.


----------



## HuskerMike

Ok, so I posted earlier that I could not "downgrade" from Hydra with my new Roamio OTA. However, after reading some more, I discovered that using an old remote, not the new one that came with the Roamio OTA would help. So, I used my old IR remote, and it WORKED!!
My new Roamio OTA is now happily working without the disaster that is Hydra. Man the old UI is SOOO much better. Like it was actually designed by a professional. The graphic artist in me screamed every time I used Hydra, and now, I can happily use my new Tivo without my eyes bleeding. Woo!!!

Thanks to all for posting the steps to "downgrade" (actually a massive upgrade) to the old UI. The thing that will help new users the most is to stress the necessity of using an old IR remote. Do that, and the "downgrade" should work for you.


----------



## krkaufman

HuskerMike said:


> The thing that will help new users the most is to stress the necessity of using an old IR remote. Do that, and the "downgrade" should work for you.


Note that the RF and VOX remotes can be toggled to IR mode, so you wouldn't need some older IR-only remote for this rollback workaround.


----------



## FreeKnight

Running a Roamio Pro as main host device non-Hydra with 1 Tivo mini MOCA connected. Purchased a second non-Vox mini this holiday. Set up the second mini, but because it is new, it updated to Hydra and said my host DVR needed to update or to downgrade this mini.

After doing the research, I want to downgrade the mini, but I am still shown the "Downgrading will delete [everything]" message.

My question: will downgrading a mini to non-Hydra actually delete everything from a non-Hydra Roamio Pro host DVR or is this just their standard Downgrade warning message?

I assume it wouldn't because the mini shouldn't have to touch the host DVR to downgrade itself, but I'm not willing to take that chance when someone probably has a definitive answer to this question.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ej42137

"Downgrading" the Mini will remove everything on the Mini. Which is, of course, nothing.


----------



## lpwcomp

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I have Comcast and had no issues with cable card-no changes to anything and premiums work ok.


L)k


----------



## wblynch

I just got a renewed Roamio OTA which went through four updates before first use and ended up on Hydra rc11. I tried to do the downgrade as described upthread and other places but it gets stuck in a "Downgrade Error". And pressing "Try Again" about 50 Times doesn't help.

Does anyone have advice how to break out of the error loop and complete the downgrade.


----------



## krkaufman

wblynch said:


> I just got a renewed Roamio OTA which ...ended up on ?Hydra rc11. I tried to do the downgrade as described upthread and other places but it gets stuck in a "Downgrade Error". And pressing "Try Again" about 50 Times doesn't help.


You may have better luck by switching your remote to IR mode before initiating the downgrade button sequence.

See this post: How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


----------



## wblynch

krkaufman said:


> You may have better luck by switching your remote to IR mode before initiating the downgrade button sequence.
> 
> See this post: How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


Thanks, wouldn't hurt to try...


----------



## Intheswamp

wyblynch, I see from another forum that things started working overnight and the downgrade is progressing!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## wblynch

Yes, thanks. I forgot to post here. I guess the machine just needed some time to think about it.


----------



## Intheswamp

When I was setting up my Roamio OTA (first time Tivo owner here) it seemed to lock-up a time or two but I just let it sit there...and it set everything up the first go'round. I know this is different from what you've been doing but it does make me think that patience is a virtue with Tivo boxes.


----------



## lpwcomp

New Roamio OTA. Went through the downgrade process and it didn't downgrade. Tried again and while I had the BSC I wanted to switch the remote back to IR. As soon as I ht the TiVo button, it terminated the process and now won't let me do it again.

Edit: Trying a C&DE and seeing if that restores the option.


----------



## wblynch

lpwcomp said:


> New Roamio OTA. Went through the downgrade process and it didn't downgrade. Tried again and while I had the BSC I wanted to switch the remote back to IR. As soon as I ht the TiVo button, it terminated the process and now won't let me do it again.
> 
> Edit: Trying a C&DE and seeing if that restores the option.


Yikes, hope it works.

Mine is fine now, after the initial weirdness. Gonna swap it with the Roamio 500GB on the main TV.


----------



## lpwcomp

wblynch said:


> Yikes, hope it works.
> 
> Mine is fine now, after the initial weirdness. Gonna swap it with the Roamio 500GB on the main TV.


Me too as it's totally useless for my purposes otherwise. I *have* to be able to xfer from PC to this TiVo.

Edit: Did get the downgrade option again and I am now back to the BSC.

Something I failed to mention before. The process was not exactly as stated in the Initial post. After the documented steps, there is a downgrade confirmation screen that prompted me to enter 3 thumbs down and "Enter" to proceed.

Edit2: Second time was the charm. Now on Gen3 UI.


----------



## Intheswamp

If there is one thing that tempts me to downgrade to the Gen3 UI is the ability to transfer from PC to Roamio. *That* is very tempting. The jury is still out on that.

Btw, did I mention that transferring from PC to Roamio is *very tempting*???


----------



## RoamioJeff

Intheswamp said:


> If there is one thing that tempts me to downgrade to the Gen3 UI is the ability to transfer from PC to Roamio. *That* is very tempting. The jury is still out on that.
> 
> Btw, did I mention that transferring from PC to Roamio is *very tempting*???


I came very close to upgrading to Hydra. I literally had my finger on the mouse button to click to request the update. And then I paused. I remembered a often repeated philosophy about voluntarily upgrading stuff that is working perfectly fine: Unless the upgrade specifically fixes a bug that is causing problems, or adds a new feature that is critical to your needs/wants; Don't Do It.

So I kept reading. And sure enough, I read where Hydra breaks transfers to a PC via PyTivo. I'm glad I followed the common sense and did not click that mouse button.

I'm sorry you will have to lose everything on your TiVo to downgrade. But the upside is that next time you consider upgrading something, you can apply the conventional wisdom before you pull the trigger. Believe me, I've been through this with computer OS upgrades and various other devices. Everytime I did it and it resulted in "issues", I told myself: "You knew better".

Hydra almost got me. Almost.


----------



## osu1991

RoamioJeff said:


> I came very close to upgrading to Hydra. I literally had my finger on the mouse button to click to receive the update. And then I paused. I remembered a often repeated philosophy about voluntarily upgrading stuff that is working perfectly fine: Unless the upgrade specifically fixes a bug that is causing problems, or adds a new feature that is critical to your needs/wants; Don't Do It.
> 
> So I kept reading. And sure enough, I read where Hydra breaks transfers to a PC via PyTivo. I'm glad I followed the common sense and did not click that mouse button.


Opposite. Transfers from PC to TiVo are Broken. TiVo to PC still works fine


----------



## RoamioJeff

osu1991 said:


> Opposite. Transfers from PC to TiVo are Broken. TiVo to PC still works fine


Yes, I know. Transposed wording on my part.


----------



## y2jdmbfan

Can I downgrade my Roamio Pro to Gen 3 and transfer shows from my Bolt on Hydra to the Roamio through the website and then downgrade the Bolt and transfer the shows back?


----------



## JoeKustra

y2jdmbfan said:


> Can I downgrade my Roamio Pro to Gen 3 and transfer shows from my Bolt on Hydra to the Roamio through the website and then downgrade the Bolt and transfer the shows back?


Funny trick. But you could buy a cheap Bolt+ or Roamio Pro on eBay. Put service on it for a month. Do the transfers. Cancel the service, which gets you the $15 refund, then keep the eBay TiVo for parts.


----------



## Intheswamp

RoamioJeff said:


> I came very close to upgrading to Hydra. I literally had my finger on the mouse button to click to request the update. And then I paused. I remembered a often repeated philosophy about voluntarily upgrading stuff that is working perfectly fine: Unless the upgrade specifically fixes a bug that is causing problems, or adds a new feature that is critical to your needs/wants; Don't Do It.
> 
> So I kept reading. And sure enough, I read where Hydra breaks transfers to a PC via PyTivo. I'm glad I followed the common sense and did not click that mouse button.
> 
> I'm sorry you will have to lose everything on your TiVo to downgrade. But the upside is that next time you consider upgrading something, you can apply the conventional wisdom before you pull the trigger. Believe me, I've been through this with computer OS upgrades and various other devices. Everytime I did it and it resulted in "issues", I told myself: "You knew better".
> 
> Hydra almost got me. Almost.


Well, in my case this was a first-time Tivo experience and I "went with the flow", I guess. Though I knew many people did not like Hydra (in it's current form) I figured Hydra was a UI that was going to be here from now on and that I might as well learn it. So really it wasn't an "upgrade" for me, just the default choice. But, in regards to your remembered upgrade philosophy...mine is normally "if it ain't broke don't fix it"...at the point of setup of my Roamio there was nothing there to be broken.  But, I understand what you're saying about upgrading without a reason/cause...I'm running four Win7 computers and one WinXP (weather station). Very little to no problems (especially for the WinXP that simply sits there and chugs out data to the internet. No considerations of upgrading any of them. 

As for losing everything if I decide to downgrade...we're still DVR'ing on the DISH receiver so we have duplicates of the "series" shows that we could fall back on. I just need to decide on whether to downgrade before mid/late January.


----------



## stini777

y2jdmbfan said:


> Can I downgrade my Roamio Pro to Gen 3 and transfer shows from my Bolt on Hydra to the Roamio through the website and then downgrade the Bolt and transfer the shows back?


I have the same question...I have a Bolt and a Bolt+ both with Hydra. Need to know if I can transfer the shows from the Bolt+ to the Bolt, downgrade the Bolt+ and then transfer back. Basically, can a Gen4 unit transfer shows to a Gen3 unit (via TiVo Online). Thanks!

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeKustra

stini777 said:


> I have the same question...I have a Bolt and a Bolt+ both with Hydra. Need to know if I can transfer the shows from the Bolt+ to the Bolt, downgrade the Bolt+ and then transfer back. Basically, can a Gen4 unit transfer shows to a Gen3 unit (via TiVo Online). Thanks!


I believe that will work if the programs are not copy protected. I did the same with two Roamio boxes. I moved 320GB of data without any problems.


----------



## JoeKustra

Maybe I didn't answer your question accurately. A Gen 3 box can get programs from a Gen4 box without TiVo Online. It's the other way around that needs TiVo Online. But for many programs, TiVo Online is much faster.


----------



## ColumbusNYC1

Long-time TiVo user. I currently have a Roamio Pro (and Mini) and just replaced an old Premiere with a white BOLT. During the Guided Setup, the BOLT upgraded to the new Hydra software which I learned would be incompatible with the Roamio Pro/Mini in terms of using it in multiple rooms. Moreover, my family does not do well with technological change so I needed to stay with the current software. Thanks to this thread, I realized that there was a way to downgrade. I spent 2+ hours on the phone with a supervisor at TiVo (due to other issues) who then walked me through the downgrade process. Since there were no recordings on the BOLT, I had nothing to lose. The downgrade went well and now all 3 units are communicating properly. The part that irks me is that the BOLT automatically updated during the Guided Setup process without asking first. I never would have done it (why fix what isn't broken?) and instead spent hours undoing it.


----------



## JoeKustra

ColumbusNYC1 said:


> Long-time TiVo user. I currently have a Roamio Pro (and Mini) and just replaced an old Premiere with a white BOLT. During the Guided Setup, the BOLT upgraded to the new Hydra software which I learned would be incompatible with the Roamio Pro/Mini in terms of using it in multiple rooms. Moreover, my family does not do well with technological change so I needed to stay with the current software.


You would still be able to access the other TiVo's on your network. Your Mini would not be able to use your new Bolt as a host. When my TiVo was delivered I was expecting the software change. I don't like it, but I have other TiVo boxes. The Hydra box is just used for storage.


----------



## ncbill

Thanks so much to the OP for the downgrade instructions.

Thought I'd have to send my "new" (refurb) Roamio OTA back to Tivo when I found out it had Hydra, only after guided setup.

But now it works just fine!


----------



## lefthand50

Thanks to OP. Downgrading an replacement Roamio OTA worked fine (no recordings so can't confirm/deny if any would be lost). 3 minutes with Hydra made me want to cut off it's head, agree sluggishing and fairly unclear on how to use it. I liked the large type from the original, easy to see. Tucking the main things I need the control center for in 1/4 of the screen in very small type didn't work for me + I'm not willing to teach my wife.


----------



## WonkyTalk

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi Ted-

The only thing that really drives me nuts about Hydra is the inability to record by Time or Channel. Unless I've missed something, the only way to do this now is through the guide which requires you to continue pushing the advance button over and over again to change the day and separately change the channel column. Very annoying. I used to record and search by time and channel all the time and really miss it. Any thoughts.....

Thanks! 
Liz


----------



## VicV_1

billpiper said:


> Followed the following
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> Saw the message about the rollback process, after everything was complete I still have Hydra....


I did the same for my Bolt Vox and it didn't work. When I clicked two thumbs down and rewind twice nothing happened. Is there a different process for the Bolt? In the Reset to Defaults menu, it lists also Clear and Delete everything. Shouldn't that be selected instead of Repeat Guided Setup?


----------



## JoeKustra

VicV_1 said:


> I did the same for my Bolt Vox and it didn't work. When I clicked two thumbs down and rewind twice nothing happened. Is there a different process for the Bolt? In the Reset to Defaults menu, it lists also Clear and Delete everything. Shouldn't that be selected instead of Repeat Guided Setup?


Same process for Bolt, etc. Try putting the remote into IR mode first: TiVo +"C". The LED will be red when you press a key.


----------



## VicV_1

JoeKustra said:


> Same process for Bolt, etc. Try putting the remote into IR mode first: TiVo +"C". The LED will be red when you press a key.


Putting the remote into IR didn't work either. Any other suggestions?


----------



## JoeKustra

VicV_1 said:


> Putting the remote into IR didn't work either. Any other suggestions?


Sorry, I have used the procedure twice without problems. I wasn't using a VOX remote though.


----------



## krkaufman

VicV_1 said:


> When I clicked two thumbs down and rewind twice nothing happened.


Don't the quoted instructions say to then press "Select"?


----------



## lpwcomp

VicV_1 said:


> Putting the remote into IR didn't work either. Any other suggestions?


The first one I tried,I neglected to put the remote into IR mode. It failed and it wouldn't let me try again. I ended up having to do a C&DE, then redoing the rollback procedure, which worked. This was on a Roamio.

You are aware that VOX doesn't work on the Gen3 UI, right? The remote will work as a normal remote but voice commands won't.


----------



## VicV_1

I did press select.
I am aware that the VOX won't work.
Is C&DE, clear and delete?


----------



## JoeKustra

VicV_1 said:


> I did press select.
> I am aware that the VOX won't work.
> Is C&DE, clear and delete?


Yep. More ->Rovi Lineup Issues & Corrections


----------



## krkaufman

VicV_1 said:


> I did press select.


Ok, good to confirm -- as it wasn't mentioned in the previous post.

And just to confirm further, as others have been mistaken on the same point... you were pressing the "THUMBS Down" and Rewind ("<<") buttons, rather than just DOWN and/or Instant Replay; and the Select button (in the middle of the navigation arrows), rather than 'Enter'.


----------



## krkaufman

After just upgrading my BOLT to gen4/Hydra, I tried the rollback procedure from the OP, and it worked fine, with a couple caveats.



BadCommand said:


> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun



*Re: 2)* I did not have to press Select; the "right arrow" screen and then upgrade confirmation dialog appeared after the second press of the Rewind ("<<") button.

*Re: 3)* The rollback doesn't immediately begin; a confirmation dialog appears to confirm the upgrade or allow the user to back out of the process.

And my VOX Remote was in RF mode. YMMV.


----------



## jerryez

I rolled back my TiVo Roamio OTA yesterday. I was not happy with the new interface, but am pleased to be back to the old interface. What will prevent TiVo from upgrading me back to the new interface, when they send out updates?


----------



## atmuscarella

jerryez said:


> I rolled back my TiVo Roamio OTA yesterday. I was not happy with the new interface, but am pleased to be back to the old interface. What will prevent TiVo from upgrading me back to the new interface, when they send out updates?


Right now TiVo has stated that Hydra is optional and that there will not be forced upgrades for existing equipment running the old HDUI. Also they are allowing new equipment (which auto load Hydra during setup) to be rolled back to the old HDUI.

As long as these policies stay in place there is nothing you need to do. If TiVo changes these policies and forces everyone to upgrade to Hydra (which I find very unlikely, at least for several years) there is nothing you can do.


----------



## humbb

jerryez said:


> What will prevent TiVo from upgrading me back to the new interface, when they send out updates?


Tivo_Ted has also indicated that the old interface will continue to be supported/updated at least in the short-term: See this.


----------



## jerryez

Thanks, my TiVo is a new unit and came with Hydra loaded. When I followed the instruction from page 1, the TiVo had several pop ups that ask me to enter different buttons than the original instructions, but when I followed the online instructions, I had no problems downgrading. Very happy TiVo owner.
PS It is so much easier to get to my shows and play them.


----------



## dsf

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back.


Not crazy about this phrasing - I am rolling back right now but I still consider myself a Tivo user!


----------



## John R

I've been a Tivo customer since 2001. I'm on my 6th DVR (Bolt) with 3 Minis. This upgrade was the worst Tivo experience/change ever. None of the new menus are intuitive. I Hate it. I am grateful that my wife didn't kill me after I upgraded. I am so grateful that I am able to downgrade even with losing everything. It was that bad for me. Please Please Please add an option to use the old style menus with the new version if people will be forced to upgrade again. Thanks for posting the rollback instructions here.


----------



## chicagoenergy

Rolled back Roamio OTA first. Then transferred my shows from the Roamio Pro to the Roamio OTA. Rolled back Roamio Pro. Then rolled back two Minis- both Gen1 Minis. Moved shoes from Roamio OTA back to Pro. 

LOVE THE OLD INTERFACE. It’s like finding an old friend. Also the speed of the system is so much faster. The Roamio just doesn’t have the horsepower or Hydra is not optimized to run fast on the anything but a Bolt. 

Only issue is the VOX remotes with Bluetooth dongles only pair with Roamio units in Bluetooth mode. The option to pair the VOX remotes with the Mini is missing. 

I don’t need voice control but like not needing direct line of site for remotes. Both mini units are strapped to the back of TVs mounted to the wall. So far VOX remotes in IR mode are working ok.


----------



## Ilene

John R said:


> I've been a Tivo customer since 2001. I'm on my 6th DVR (Bolt) with 3 Minis. This upgrade was the worst Tivo experience/change ever. None of the new menus are intuitive. I Hate it. I am grateful that my wife didn't kill me after I upgraded. I am so grateful that I am able to downgrade even with losing everything. It was that bad for me. Please Please Please add an option to use the old style menus with the new version if people will be forced to upgrade again. Thanks for posting the rollback instructions here.


I too have roll backed on my new Vox Bolt. I couldn't handle the new interface either. It was especially frustrating to not be able to transfer from my other boxes to the Bolt unless I did it online. I love having the clock back in the upper right side of the screen. The only thing I will miss is how easy Hydra was to turn Closed Captioning on/off. I really never used the voice button to search for anything as it did not search what I had recorded, it looked for something new to record. I use Alexa (via Harmony) to skip and change channels.


----------



## Ilene

dsf said:


> Not crazy about this phrasing - I am rolling back right now but I still consider myself a Tivo user!


@TiVo_Ted - I really feel bad that so much time was put into Hydra, but I tried to like it but I have have recordings on 3 different TiVos and it was impossible to go from one to another using Hydra. I might have liked it if I only had a Bolt which I bought so that I would have 4K capability and the "lifetime savings on Black Friday" was something that I didn't want to pass up in case one of my older TiVos died. The switching to Devices and then scrolling down to whatever the other box names were and then searching was tedious. When you finished watching, deleting by pressing the TiVo button didn't happen, and I couldn't figure out where I was unless I went back to the main menu. From there you couldn't just scroll down, but had to select 1 through 0 to navigate. Just too much for me. I rolled back and I am happy again. I guess that is what counts.


----------



## RoamioJeff

Ilene said:


> @TiVo_Ted - I really feel bad that so much time was put into Hydra, but I tried to like it but I have have recordings on 3 different TiVos and it was impossible to go from one to another using Hydra. I might have liked it if I only had a Bolt which I bought so that I would have 4K capability and the "lifetime savings on Black Friday" was something that I didn't want to pass up in case one of my older TiVos died. The switching to Devices and then scrolling down to whatever the other box names were and then searching was tedious. When you finished watching, deleting by pressing the TiVo button didn't happen, and I couldn't figure out where I was unless I went back to the main menu. From there you couldn't just scroll down, but had to select 1 through 0 to navigate. Just too much for me. I rolled back and I am happy again. I guess that is what counts.


I don't think TiVo performed adequate usability studies on this interface. It is not intuitive.


----------



## humbb

Ilene said:


> The only thing I will miss is how easy Hydra was to turn Closed Captioning on/off.


You do know that you can now toggle CC's on the old Gen3 interface by pressing and holding the blue "B" button on the remote? Can't get much easier than that.


----------



## JoeKustra

I don't want to confuse things, but there are rollback issues and there is -> TiVo Hydra/Gen4 User Interface reviews and comments thread


----------



## foghorn2

Ilene said:


> @TiVo_Ted - I really feel bad that so much time was put into Hydra, but I tried to like it but I have have recordings on 3 different TiVos and it was impossible to go from one to another using Hydra. I might have liked it if I only had a Bolt which I bought so that I would have 4K capability and the "lifetime savings on Black Friday" was something that I didn't want to pass up in case one of my older TiVos died. The switching to Devices and then scrolling down to whatever the other box names were and then searching was tedious. When you finished watching, deleting by pressing the TiVo button didn't happen, and I couldn't figure out where I was unless I went back to the main menu. From there you couldn't just scroll down, but had to select 1 through 0 to navigate. Just too much for me. I rolled back and I am happy again. I guess that is what counts.


Glad you are happy with the prev gen. At least for now, TiVo gives you that choice. I rolled back a spare lifetime Roamio that was sitting in the closet so I can use it to grab recordings from a Tivo Desktop PC and a Netgear Nas and send them to the Hydrated Bolt and the other Roamios

It was a familiar face and fun to mess around in the old ui. It came up with the live guide, I noticed the guide had no channel icons. I found it lackluster compared to Hydra. Kinda like looking back at Windows 98. Yes there are many quirks with hydra, but its still im my opinion a step into the future for Tivo and getting better with the updates.


----------



## krkaufman

foghorn2 said:


> It was a familiar face and fun to mess around in the old ui. It came up with the live guide,* I noticed the guide had no channel icons.* I found it lackluster compared to Hydra.


Of course, the channel guide icons *can* be displayed in the gen3 UI, you just have to enable them.


----------



## rdrrepair

krkaufman said:


> Of course, the channel guide icons *can* be displayed in the gen3 UI, you just have to enable them.


 You can enable and disable channel icons?


----------



## krkaufman

rdrrepair said:


> You can enable and disable channel icons?


When viewing the Guide, press the Yellow (A) button to access the Guide Options dialog. You should find a "Show channel logos" option that you can toggle.


----------



## JonUrban

Can you roll back a Mini without rolling back a Roamio?


----------



## JoeKustra

JonUrban said:


> Can you roll back a Mini without rolling back a Roamio?


Simple answer. A Mini and its host must be running the same software/UI. So Hydra-Hydra or classic-classic.

Your choice. Choose wisely.


----------



## Ilene

humbb said:


> You do know that you can now toggle CC's on the old Gen3 interface by pressing and holding the blue "B" button on the remote? Can't get much easier than that.


I did not know that. I will give it a try tonight. I thought the letters were only for sorting...Still happy that I switched back. Hubby isn't griping that he can't figure out how to navigate. I prefer the Alexa commands so I only use the remote now to get to My Shows ( baby steps in learning how to map using Harmony - main issues were resolved through some good advice by other members of this forum). Looking forward to additional future Alexa commands using skills.


----------



## mattyro7878

I rolled back and once again I know what time it is!!! Plus m enjoying my live guide. I don't dislike Hydra but I do prefer this gen3.


----------



## aaronwt

RoamioJeff said:


> I don't think TiVo performed adequate usability studies on this interface. It is not intuitive.


I thought just the opposite. It was very intuitive. EVen my GFs young grand nieces/nephews had no problem using Hydra.


----------



## Diana Collins

As I've said before...'intuitive' depends on how long you used Encore (classic HDUI). Folks that have spent years with Encore have had that paradigm drilled into their brains, so what is 'intuitive' to them is influenced by that experience. If you have used other DVRs recently, or are used to the Hulu/Amazon/Netflix UX's, then Hydra is a much easier transition. The TiVo UX up until now has been evolutionary. Hydra is a clean break with the past and changes the entire paradigm. I happen to like it, but other don't. YMMV.


----------



## HerronScott

TiVo_Ted said:


> For auto-skip to work, you need to be running TiVo Experience 4. We will be enabling IFTTT for all devices running TE4. We are working to support IFTTT on TiVo Experience 3 with all other features





krkaufman said:


> It seems peculiar that this one, killer feature is restricted to Hydra/gen4.





TiVo_Ted said:


> Only initially. It requires us to back-port a database change. I'm working with the product team on a plan to support this in the near future.


I thought Ted's comment was interesting regarding back-porting a database change for the gen3 UI which would seem to be relevant here as to why they wipe the TiVo when reverting from Hydra/gen4 back to gen3.

Scott


----------



## chad73

I rolled both of my boxes back to Gen 3. I've decided I'd like to put Hydra back on my secondary box just to keep up with it's progress. I have two questions. 1) If both DVRs are on different software can I still view (not transfer) recordings that I recorded on the other box? 2. I've searched everywhere and can't figure out how to re-install hydra. The Tivo site now says I don't have any eligible boxes for "early upgrade" I don't have the upgrade "app" in the app section either. I did a clear and reset everything but it puts Gen 3 back on that box.


----------



## JoeKustra

chad73 said:


> I rolled both of my boxes back to Gen 3. I've decided I'd like to put Hydra back on my secondary box just to keep up with it's progress. I have two questions. 1) If both DVRs are on different software can I still view (not transfer) recordings that I recorded on the other box? 2. I've searched everywhere and can't figure out how to re-install hydra. The Tivo site now says I don't have any eligible boxes for "early upgrade" I don't have the upgrade "app" in the app section either. I did a clear and reset everything but it puts Gen 3 back on that box.


I took a week after I downgraded a Roamio to 20.7.4 before it reappeared on the upgrade site. Yes, you can watch content on either box. The Hydra box has your other TiVo under Devices, not My Shows.

The shortcut is in this post if you need it -> Upgrade URL to get the New TiVo Experience


----------



## jap3

Looking for a little help. I "upgraded" to Hydra and my wife and I don't like it. We prefer the classic Tivo interface. I've attempted to rollback following the directions given and the top of this thread to no avail. Two thumbs down, and when I hit the rewind and then select I get the "bong" each time I press those buttons (not the same "bong" as the thumbs down). The software version is 21.7.2.RC14-848-6-848.

Thanks for any assistance.

I'll save my opinions of why we don't like it on another thread.

EDIT: Nevermind. I re-read this thread, found to put the remote in IR mode. That worked. Downgrade in Progress!!!

Also, rewind is << not 8 second replay. Duh.


----------



## krkaufman

jap3 said:


> I've attempted to rollback following the directions given and the top of this thread to no avail.


Try initiating the rollback with the remote in IR mode, rather than RF.

(Hold TiVo+C buttons until the remote's LED flashes red.)


----------



## JoeKustra

Someone should make a YouTube video of this process. Those remote keys can be hard to find.


----------



## cummingsje

I've been searching the threads but can't find an answer. What if per chance i wanted to "opt back in" after reverting back to the old U.I. Not that I necessarily would, but at some point i'm sure will have to.


----------



## mdavej

cummingsje said:


> I've been searching the threads but can't find an answer. What if per chance i wanted to "opt back in" after reverting back to the old U.I. Not that I necessarily would, but at some point i'm sure will have to.


Go here, login, check the boxes and submit.
Login Template Title


----------



## Mikeguy

cummingsje said:


> I've been searching the threads but can't find an answer. What if per chance i wanted to "opt back in" after reverting back to the old U.I. Not that I necessarily would, but at some point i'm sure will have to.


Yep, do-able.


----------



## JoeKustra

cummingsje said:


> I've been searching the threads but can't find an answer. What if per chance i wanted to "opt back in" after reverting back to the old U.I. Not that I necessarily would, but at some point i'm sure will have to.


Your TSN should reappear in the upgrade website in a few days.


----------



## cummingsje

Thanks all. Just checked it and says i have no qualifying boxes. If it takes it some time that is fine.


----------



## Mr.Broncosfan

OMG!! Thank you for starting this thread. Just rolled back my Roamio Plus and Mini without any hiccups. Easy peasy. So nice to have the familiar interface back and the full functionality of the left button.


----------



## kbmb

Also just rolled back our main Roamio yesterday with no issues. It did have the extra confirmation screens and did fail saying some network problem after the first blue circle. But after that everything went fine. It is so nice to have the old interface back. It really does run smoother on the Roamio's and I think it's just more usable. Really think TiVo could have "tweaked" the Gen3 and made something really great, but oh well. I have a feeling sooner or later we'll just end up with an X1 or nothing as we watch more and more via streaming. Thanks to the OP of posting the excellent instructions!


----------



## compnurd

So i had rolled back my bolt plus previously and it had not been connected for a couple of months.. I just picked up another bolt and activated it.. after a few service calls it showed up as being able to upgrade and I did.. I re connected my plus also and it did a few service calls.. however it is not showing back up to upgrade again.... am i missing something here or just need to wait longer since it is connecting again... besides a voice remote is there another way to trigger the upgrade?


----------



## JoeKustra

compnurd said:


> So i had rolled back my bolt plus previously and it had not been connected for a couple of months.. I just picked up another bolt and activated it.. after a few service calls it showed up as being able to upgrade and I did.. I re connected my plus also and it did a few service calls.. however it is not showing back up to upgrade again.... am i missing something here or just need to wait longer since it is connecting again... besides a voice remote is there another way to trigger the upgrade?


I did an upgrade/downgrade also. It took a week before the box reappeared on the site.


----------



## lpwcomp

After rolling it back, don't you have to explicitly request Hydra again?


----------



## compnurd

lpwcomp said:


> After rolling it back, don't you have to explicitly request Hydra again?


That is what i am trying to do but the TSN isnt showing up on the upgrade page


----------



## sterry21

BadCommand said:


> So after spending an excruciating 3 days with the Hydra UI on my Roamio and 6 Mini's (and with nasty family feedback), I posted the request to rollback on the Tivo forum site. I was sent a message to contact Tivo support directly to find out how. Tivo support was very helpful and gave me the following instructions which they OK'd for forum posting. KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING!!!
> 
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> All in all, the rollback didn't take more than 10-15 minutes HOWEVER once complete and finished Guided Setup on the Roamio, if you have a MOCA Mini network, you'll want to go straight into the Roamio and enable the MOCA Bridge option right away before the Roamio dials back in a 2nd time as that process tied up the Change Network Settings option for a couple hours in my case (YMMV)!
> 
> For the Mini's v1 (but I'd guess v2 is the same). Also note, I waited til the Roamio had completely rolled back and I completed Guided Setup before starting this process:
> 1.a.) Go to Menu- Help- Repeat Guided Setup- press Thumbs Down 3 times and press Enter. OR
> 1.b.) You'll already see the "downgrade" screen and it will prompt you from there.
> 2.) You'll now see the "old" Guided Setup. Go thru that so the Mini can phone home.
> 3.) The Mini will phone home and prompt you once again to go thru Guided Setup.
> 4.) After the 2nd Guided Setup completion, you should be back in business
> 5.) Congrats- You've just wasted a better part of a day!
> Note: Each time I went thru Guided Setup, my Mini would fail to connect and I would get the Network Connection Error screen (N07). Simply waiting a second or two for the Mini (or Roamio) to gather itself and retrying solved the problem 100% of the time.
> 
> Overall, the reason the Hydra UI was such a non-starter for me is that the UI was just too sluggish on my entire system. I feel the code is just too heavy on the Roamio processor and I would guess it would be better on the Bolt. I found the lagginess caused me, and I'm being literal here, a bit of almost anxiousness and stress- it was just that poor performing. With that said, someone else did report they were happy with it on the OTA Roamio- I would guess that's due to the processor workload compared to my cablecard version.
> 
> Also- and this was just as important- for whatever the Replay button no longer functions as a alternative Back button. This was posted BEFORE I "upgraded" and I honestly wasn't sure just how critical that darn button was- it is VERY important- especially in the My Shows or anywhere the Tivo button is used. So, as currently laid out a new remote with Back is pretty much mandatory and at $45/each for 7 units- a purchase that I'm just not willing to invest in for something (a.) I felt could be easily overcome by leaving the back function intact, or allowing thru Setup, the remapping of a much less used button. And (b.) if I were going to go that route I would prefer to just apply the funds to purchase of units that were strong enough to carry the Hydra interface.
> 
> In summary- returning to the Good "Old" Interface has never felt like a better upgrade!
> 
> Hope this helps and Good Luck!


BadCommand, I just want to thank you for posting this valuable and accurate rollback procedure. You may have saved a marriage!

Cheers,

Steve


----------



## matthans00

sterry21 said:


> BadCommand, I just want to thank you for posting this valuable and accurate rollback procedure. You may have saved a marriage!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve


I want to thank BadCommand and everyone else who contributed to this thread.
I just got a new Bolt Vox in late Feb. It came with the new Experience 4 installed and I hated it from day one. I got the 3TB 6 tuner Cablecard Bolt and after setting it up and programing my One Passes found out it wouldn't start ANY recordings. I could go to the guide and manually start a current show but if there were multiple shows at the same time I would miss the beginning because the tuner wasn't on that channel so no buffer. ANY show that was to record in a later time slot would self cancel. I transferred about 40 shows from my old Roamio and it brought my storage usage up to 6%. When I got up the next day I opened "My Shows" and was shocked to see storage usage was now 0%. EVERY recorded show had been deleted but the only thing in "Recently Deleted" folder was 2 test recordings I had deleted the day before. The only thing not deleted was the streaming parts of each One Pass. We also watch shows from Youtube and Netflix and about every 10 minutes they would hang and buffer for a minute or so. Never had that problem with the old Roamio.
Anyway, after 2 weeks struggling with this I came across this thread and immediately jumped at the chance to try the rollback to Experience 3. IT WORKED! One Passes record when they are supposed to and STAY! Youtube doesn't hang and buffer! Family is happy!
I will admit the new UI had some good features; the 1 key shortcuts from the My Shows screen. I can live without Vox.
The Bolt and Mini rollback took about 20 minutes each plus guided setup and One Passes, well worth the effort. I won't upgrade now till they make me!!
Thanks again everyone, I couldn't have done it without you.
Matt


----------



## jlb

Ugh....just received my new, well, tivo renewed Bolt and it came with Hydra on it.... This is the most yucky thing I've seen. Anyways, the keystroke combination listed at the top of this thread seemed to work to kick in the downgrade on my Bolt...... hoping it goes smoothly and doesn't take too long. As its a new box to me, I don't mind the reset everything process.....


----------



## jlb

matthans00 said:


> I want to thank BadCommand and everyone else who contributed to this thread.
> I just got a new Bolt Vox in late Feb. It came with the new Experience 4 installed and I hated it from day one. I got the 3TB 6 tuner Cablecard Bolt and after setting it up and programing my One Passes found out it wouldn't start ANY recordings. I could go to the guide and manually start a current show but if there were multiple shows at the same time I would miss the beginning because the tuner wasn't on that channel so no buffer. ANY show that was to record in a later time slot would self cancel. I transferred about 40 shows from my old Roamio and it brought my storage usage up to 6%. When I got up the next day I opened "My Shows" and was shocked to see storage usage was now 0%. EVERY recorded show had been deleted but the only thing in "Recently Deleted" folder was 2 test recordings I had deleted the day before. The only thing not deleted was the streaming parts of each One Pass. We also watch shows from Youtube and Netflix and about every 10 minutes they would hang and buffer for a minute or so. Never had that problem with the old Roamio.
> Anyway, after 2 weeks struggling with this I came across this thread and immediately jumped at the chance to try the rollback to Experience 3. IT WORKED! One Passes record when they are supposed to and STAY! Youtube doesn't hang and buffer! Family is happy!
> I will admit the new UI had some good features; the 1 key shortcuts from the My Shows screen. I can live without Vox.
> The Bolt and Mini rollback took about 20 minutes each plus guided setup and One Passes, well worth the effort. I won't upgrade now till they make me!!
> Thanks again everyone, I couldn't have done it without you.
> Matt


yeah. I was not a fan either (see my post just above). I like familiarity and, man, if I had to support this for my wife while I'm travelling....yuck that would be a nightmare


----------



## jlb

Rollback on my Bolt went without a hitch. Well, one minor one....TiVo Online can't communicate but I am doing a reboot in hopes that is all it will need to reestablish communication.

Once that is done, I will push my passes to the new box from Online.

[ETA] Reboot didnt fix communication in online but forcing a connection now to see if that helps.
[ETA2] I think it was a browser issue complicating things or was just timing. Went to another browser and it worked fine. Rollback gets 2 thumbs up from me. And all of my Season Passes pushed over to the new Bolt just fine from TiVo Online. I really like how things went.


----------



## mom2jel

Thank you to Bad Command from me too!
I upgraded my Roamio and tried to get used to it for a couple of days, just couldn't handle it. Sometimes "splashy" looking isn't the most intuitive!

Once I downgraded my Roamio (note for those skipping messages - the downgrade will erase everything, including your recordings and OnePass).
I see the upgrade option is there:
Settings > User Preferences > Add & Manage Apps
The Upgrade Experience will be at the bottom of the screen underneath the 'Choose other apps you want to see ...' (or about the 9th choice).


----------



## JoeKustra

Uncheck the box and it will go away. For a while anyhow.


----------



## Lurker1

Putting 'Get New Experience' in My Shows is such an evil thing to do. Are they trying to trick unsuspecting/uninformed household members (i.e. kids) into making a big mistake that is very difficult or impossible for me to recover from? So glad I saw that first and disabled it before someone else stumbled into it.


----------



## szvers

BadCommand said:


> So after spending an excruciating 3 days with the Hydra UI on my Roamio and 6 Mini's (and with nasty family feedback), I posted the request to rollback on the Tivo forum site. I was sent a message to contact Tivo support directly to find out how. Tivo support was very helpful and gave me the following instructions which they OK'd for forum posting. KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING!!!
> 
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> All in all, the rollback didn't take more than 10-15 minutes HOWEVER once complete and finished Guided Setup on the Roamio, if you have a MOCA Mini network, you'll want to go straight into the Roamio and enable the MOCA Bridge option right away before the Roamio dials back in a 2nd time as that process tied up the Change Network Settings option for a couple hours in my case (YMMV)!
> 
> For the Mini's v1 (but I'd guess v2 is the same). Also note, I waited til the Roamio had completely rolled back and I completed Guided Setup before starting this process:
> 1.a.) Go to Menu- Help- Repeat Guided Setup- press Thumbs Down 3 times and press Enter. OR
> 1.b.) You'll already see the "downgrade" screen and it will prompt you from there.
> 2.) You'll now see the "old" Guided Setup. Go thru that so the Mini can phone home.
> 3.) The Mini will phone home and prompt you once again to go thru Guided Setup.
> 4.) After the 2nd Guided Setup completion, you should be back in business
> 5.) Congrats- You've just wasted a better part of a day!
> Note: Each time I went thru Guided Setup, my Mini would fail to connect and I would get the Network Connection Error screen (N07). Simply waiting a second or two for the Mini (or Roamio) to gather itself and retrying solved the problem 100% of the time.
> 
> Overall, the reason the Hydra UI was such a non-starter for me is that the UI was just too sluggish on my entire system. I feel the code is just too heavy on the Roamio processor and I would guess it would be better on the Bolt. I found the lagginess caused me, and I'm being literal here, a bit of almost anxiousness and stress- it was just that poor performing. With that said, someone else did report they were happy with it on the OTA Roamio- I would guess that's due to the processor workload compared to my cablecard version.
> 
> Also- and this was just as important- for whatever the Replay button no longer functions as a alternative Back button. This was posted BEFORE I "upgraded" and I honestly wasn't sure just how critical that darn button was- it is VERY important- especially in the My Shows or anywhere the Tivo button is used. So, as currently laid out a new remote with Back is pretty much mandatory and at $45/each for 7 units- a purchase that I'm just not willing to invest in for something (a.) I felt could be easily overcome by leaving the back function intact, or allowing thru Setup, the remapping of a much less used button. And (b.) if I were going to go that route I would prefer to just apply the funds to purchase of units that were strong enough to carry the Hydra interface.
> 
> In summary- returning to the Good "Old" Interface has never felt like a better upgrade!
> 
> Hope this helps and Good Luck!


Got the hydra update Friday night. After not being to have my minis be able to watch recorded I downgraded and lost everything, which I new would happen. My problem now after downgrading my roamio is I keep getting the tivo dvr not found v70 error message after running guided setup.
I wasn't able to repeat guided setup on the minis and do the thumbs down. I've unplugged/plugged several times to no avail.
I don't see a setting on my roamio ota for MoCa so I don't know if I'm missing something there.
The mini connects to the service/makes a connection fine, then just holds on the tivo dvr not found screen.
Thank you for any help.


----------



## nrnoble

At the moment, I am regretting the upgrade, but I will give it some time. I preferred the original TiVo UI over the xfintityX1 UI (on xfintity box of course), and I prefer the X1 UI over the new TiVo upgrade.

Currently *I want the TiVo live guide, not the grid*. I am hoping their is an option to switch back to that.


----------



## JoeKustra

nrnoble said:


> Currently *I want the TiVo live guide, not the grid*. I am hoping their is an option to switch back to that.


Someday perhaps ->Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


----------



## nrnoble

JoeKustra said:


> Someday perhaps ->Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


Thanks... Not good news. My bad for not coming here in advance and doing my research in advance. In the past, I've never felt the need to question Tivos upgrades, especially since I got the Bolt+mini, which I have been impressed with.

Thus far (less than 24 hours) the new UI does not have the look and feel of an upgrade, more has the feel of a switch to an existing UI from another product. In the PC\Mac\Linux world, the term often used is "Port", and ports tend to be functional, but clunky.

As one simple observation, it takes more menu navigation (think of mouse clicks) to accomplish the same thing.


----------



## ClearToLand

nrnoble said:


> ...the new UI does not have the look and feel of an upgrade, *more has the feel of a switch to an existing UI from another product*...


Within the past few weeks, we experienced a night (Prime Time) without SkipMode - once on CBS, then on NBC - so I watched a few commercials. IIRC, one was for FireTV and a couple were for ISPs. The *FIRST* thought that came to my mind was Gen4 / Hydra - they all look so similar (lots of pictures, minimal text). Even Kodi and the Plex client are full of pictures. It "must" be what the "people" (not this Baby Boomer) want...


----------



## JoeKustra

nrnoble said:


> As one simple observation, it takes more menu navigation (think of mouse clicks) to accomplish the same thing.


I have both, so I'm staying impartial for now.

One observation. The extra mouse clicks are because you have prior experience. If Hydra was your first, you would have little to compare with. But I ramble. Good luck.


----------



## nrnoble

JoeKustra said:


> I have both, so I'm staying impartial for now.
> 
> One observation. The extra mouse clicks are because you have prior experience. If Hydra was your first, you would have little to compare with. But I ramble. Good luck.


Yes, what you're saying it true, and my opinion is rising as I use it. It is a major overhaul from the Tivo UI which has been basically the same since 1999.

What I am happy about is that so far, all the TiVO functionality from the remote appears to be there and working correctly for me. What I have yet to see\find is any new WOW features. Just seem to be the same functionality with a new UI. I would say I was more impressed upgrading from S3 to Bolt and Mini. At that time I was about to quit TiVo after 18 years in favor of xFinity's X1. I've been impressed with the Bolt & Mini combo.


----------



## lpwcomp

nrnoble said:


> At the moment, I am regretting the upgrade, but I will give it some time. I preferred the original TiVo UI over the xfintityX1 UI (on xfintity box of course), and I prefer the X1 UI over the new TiVo upgrade.


Why did you "upgrade"?



nrnoble said:


> Currently *I want the TiVo live guide, not the grid*. I am hoping their is an option to switch back to that.


I think it highly unlikely that the Live Guide will ever be on option in the Gen4 UI. Text based displays aren't "modern".


----------



## JoeKustra

I just took a Mini VOX back to TE3. I wanted to see what software it would get. It didn't take long and it received 20.7.4.RC18. All I had to do to start the rollback was assign it to a non-Hydra host. Then, to upgrade back, I assigned it to a Hydra host. Pretty quick. I could not get the VOX remote to pair in rf mode without Hydra, and even then it took a while.


----------



## Ell-jay

Wondering if a Roamio Plus UI rollback would fix the _FF to Play_ 5+ second freeze issue.

TiVo has been no help, havn't found a posted solution, and willing to spend hours (if necessary) to fix this constant aggravation.

Happy to give details of problem if needed.
TIA.


----------



## johnd01

JoeKustra said:


> I have both, so I'm staying impartial for now.
> 
> One observation. The extra mouse clicks are because you have prior experience. If Hydra was your first, you would have little to compare with. But I ramble. Good luck.


An airplane is faster than a car but if you had never seen an airplane you would be happy to drive SF to NY rather than fly in 5 hours. 
I want my airplane back.


----------



## JoeKustra

johnd01 said:


> An airplane is faster than a car but if you had never seen an airplane you would be happy to drive SF to NY rather than fly in 5 hours.
> I want my airplane back.


It's on the runway. That's what this thread is all about. It's only a matter if you want to buy the ticket.


----------



## timbest

Help! I tried Hydra and hated it so I followed this thread to downgrade successfully last week - just got my Tivo working again and recording shows again after losing everything in the downgrade. Now this morning, the Tivo has re-upgraded me to Hydra again without my permission! What can I do now?


----------



## JoeKustra

timbest said:


> Help! I tried Hydra and hated it so I followed this thread to downgrade successfully last week - just got my Tivo working again and recording shows again after losing everything in the downgrade. Now this morning, the Tivo has re-upgraded me to Hydra again without my permission! What can I do now?


That's new. Were you prompted to upgrade? Is there an app to the new experience that is checked? I have two non-Hydra Roamio boxes and I would be really pissed if that happened to me.

Bolt or Roamio?


----------



## timbest

JoeKustra said:


> That's new. Were you prompted to upgrade? Is there an app to the new experience that is checked? I have two non-Hydra Roamio boxes and I would be really pissed if that happened to me.
> 
> Bolt or Roamio?


Roamio - the first time I did upgrade on purpose with the "new experience" prompt - but I hated Hydra and found this thread and downgraded successfully even though I knew I would lose all my recordings. That was last week. I absolutely DID NOT ask to upgrade again (no one in the house but me) and yet this morning it's upgraded to what looks like a slightly newer version of Hydra 21.8.1.RC6-848-6-848 without my OK. I guess I can downgrade again but I am nervous about what will happen next and losing all my recordings again and how to stop this. Is Rovi trying to kill off their loyal old Tivo customer base (I've been with them since series 1 in 1999)?


----------



## krkaufman

timbest said:


> Roamio - the first time I did upgrade on purpose with the "new experience" prompt - but I hated Hydra and found this thread and downgraded successfully even though I knew I would lose all my recordings. That was last week. I absolutely DID NOT ask to upgrade again (no one in the house but me) and yet this morning it's upgraded to what looks like a slightly newer version of Hydra 21.8.1.RC6-848-6-848 without my OK. I guess I can downgrade again but I am nervous about what will happen next and losing all my recordings again and how to stop this. Is Rovi trying to kill off their loyal old Tivo customer base (I've been with them since series 1 in 1999)?


Yikes, @TiVo_Ted may want to take note of this if there's a glitch in the targeting for the new Hydra update that just started rolling out. It sounds like your box was somehow erroneously included in the initial "random 5000" boxes, perhaps a list that was compiled prior to your rolling back. Regardless, a major goof/bug on the part of the update process.


----------



## JoeKustra

timbest said:


> Roamio - the first time I did upgrade on purpose with the "new experience" prompt - but I hated Hydra and found this thread and downgraded successfully even though I knew I would lose all my recordings. That was last week. I absolutely DID NOT ask to upgrade again (no one in the house but me) and yet this morning it's upgraded to what looks like a slightly newer version of Hydra 21.8.1.RC6-848-6-848 without my OK. I guess I can downgrade again but I am nervous about what will happen next and losing all my recordings again and how to stop this. Is Rovi trying to kill off their loyal old Tivo customer base (I've been with them since series 1 in 1999)?


This is bad. The new rollout of 21.8.1 must be screwed up. You might want to post here -> New TE4 update starting to roll out

I'm tempted to remove my network connections until Tuesday.

The web site to request upgrades is broken, so checking your TSN there won't be possible.

If you have Twitter, I would ask @TiVoSupport WTF is going on.


----------



## dshinnick

IT WORKED. The very last step in the procedure was a bit different than described on the first page, but it was clear that the box was going to "downgrade".

IT WORKED. Now THIS is the Tivo we all know and love! Thanks, thanks, thanks! for posting this.


----------



## krkaufman

timbest said:


> Help! I tried Hydra and hated it so I followed this thread to downgrade successfully last week - just got my Tivo working again and recording shows again after losing everything in the downgrade. Now this morning, the Tivo has re-upgraded me to Hydra again without my permission! What can I do now?





timbest said:


> Roamio - the first time I did upgrade on purpose with the "new experience" prompt - but I hated Hydra and found this thread and downgraded successfully even though I knew I would lose all my recordings. That was last week. I absolutely DID NOT ask to upgrade again (no one in the house but me) and yet this morning it's upgraded to what looks like a slightly newer version of Hydra 21.8.1.RC6-848-6-848 without my OK. I guess I can downgrade again but I am nervous about what will happen next and losing all my recordings again and how to stop this. Is Rovi trying to kill off their loyal old Tivo customer base (I've been with them since series 1 in 1999)?


FYI... As suspected:


TiVo_Ted said:


> I looked into the reason why someone might have gotten the update after downgrading. Because this was a test that included an email and on-screen message, we had to pull the random list of names early. That list was created on April 12th. The emails and on-screen message went out just after the update started on Tuesday the 24th. Anyone who downgraded between those dates probably got accidentally put into the new upgrade group. I'm sorry we missed this scenario, and hopefully not too many people got caught in the middle.


----------



## schatham

Rollback still works. Failed once then worked.


----------



## rockstar72

Help please.

Got a refurbed Tivo Roamio OTA that came with the new interface. Doesn't match any of my other devices. Went through the menu as shown by the OP and got the message about downgrading the system.

Now the Tivo will not boot up. Just gives the "Almost There" message.

Do I have a brick ?


----------



## schatham

How long has it been on almost their? If a while, unplug it and try again.


----------



## rockstar72

schatham said:


> How long has it been on almost their? If a while, unplug it and try again.


It has been many hours. Tried to unplug and still gets stuck in the same place.


----------



## schatham

Everything went smooth up until reboot? I guess return it to Tivo or whoever you bought it from.


----------



## schatham

Tivo gives the message when upgrading that you can not go back. But this is not true, it works as of this morning.


----------



## rockstar72

Update on my bricked system where after downgrade it would not complete boot up.

Somehow the downgrade corrupted my hard drive. Yes, it was working before. I used a PC utility to do a low level format the drive. Put the drive back in and then Tivo formatted the drive to it's liking and completed booting. And yes, the downgrade did work.


----------



## macdaddy1225

Just rolled my roamio plus and 4 mini's back to original menu's. Thank god somebody posted how to do it. You would think if they made a new interface it would be easier to use than the old one. It took me one day of struggle along with a family revolt to make the decision. The only reason i did it was i got a new mini and it had the new interface on it and i figured it had to be better, but man was i wrong. That thing was really hard to use. I will never revert to that new mess unless they make me!


----------



## CaseyK24

krkaufman said:


> Indeed. The above "Roamio" steps worked to initiate the downgrade process on my BOLT, displaying the attached warning dialog as confirmation:
> 
> View attachment 31265
> ​I apparently failed to follow the precise button sequence on my first try, prompting my original post. Thanks all.
> 
> p.s. At least for the present I'm sticking with Hydra (until I get my OnePasses backed-up), so I can't say whether selecting the downgrade option required any additional confirmations.


I am trying the downgrade process on a new "reconditioned" Bolt they just sent me as a replacement. Loaded at first with Hydra. I went to Repeat Guided setup. Did the thumbs down twice and rewind twice. On second push of rewind heard a "ding" like it took the sequence but after when I try to press "select" it gives the bad sound like when it can't do anything and pressing enter does nothing (with only 2 thumbs down). Is anyone else having this issue or am I doing the procedure wrong? Or does it not work anymore? Thanks.


----------



## JoeKustra

CaseyK24 said:


> Is anyone else having this issue or am I doing the procedure wrong? Or does it not work anymore? Thanks.


Just to be sure, rewind is the button above the "A".

I really hope it's not broken. But it's a possibility.


----------



## CaseyK24

JoeKustra said:


> Just to be sure, rewind is the button above the "A".
> 
> I really hope it's not broken. But it's a possibility.


Ok I think I was getting the "rewind" button wrong. I was using the << on the circle as that rewinds The one above the A goes back like 30 seconds but if thats the rewind for the procedure thanks - I'll try.


----------



## krkaufman

JoeKustra said:


> Just to be sure, rewind is the button above the "A".


That's the 'Replay' button.

Rewind is the double-left arrow button (<<) to the left of the big yellow 'Pause' button (||). Above the 'A' button, but not immediately above.

@CaseyK24, you may also want to try initiating the downgrade process with the remote in IR mode. (edit: see this post for an example)


----------



## krkaufman

CaseyK24 said:


> Ok I think I was getting the "rewind" button wrong. I was using the << on the circle as that rewinds The one above the A goes back like 30 seconds but if thats the rewind for the procedure thanks - I'll try.


I believe you were using the correct button.


----------



## JoeKustra

Wow, I'm batting 0 today.


----------



## krkaufman

JoeKustra said:


> Wow, I'm batting 0 today.


goofball


----------



## daveh88

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ted a few people are having a problem getting the mini to downgrade. Have power cycled...cleared and deleted and repeated guided setup many time with no result. Installed another one here a couple of weeks ago with no problem. Is there any help you can give? Mini 9300 with a Roamio OTA host here. Thanks.


----------



## CaseyK24

krkaufman said:


> That's the 'Replay' button.
> 
> Rewind is the double-left arrow button (<<) to the left of the big yellow 'Pause' button (||). Above the 'A' button, but not immediately above.
> 
> @CaseyK24, you may also want to try initiating the downgrade process with the remote in IR mode. (edit: see this post for an example)


Ok after trying to figure out what step I was doing wrong I called Tivo to ask what they say the procedure is. Turns out the issue isn't the procedure. Seems the issue is on the Tivo software side and its a known issue that popped up and they are looking into it. I wonder if any Bolt downgrade has worked in the last day or two.


----------



## krkaufman

CaseyK24 said:


> Ok after trying to figure out what step I was doing wrong I called Tivo to ask what they say the procedure is. Turns out the issue isn't the procedure. Seems the issue is on the Tivo software side and its a known issue that popped up and they are looking into it. *I wonder if any Bolt downgrade has worked in the last day or two.*


Quite possibly not, as I'll be directing a couple other threads with unhappy Hydra Mini users to your post. (i.e. Minis running Hydra that refuse to downgrade to the OS being run on their host DVR.)

Thanks for the feedback. Glad TiVo could at least explain the cause.


----------



## JoeKustra

This begs to ask, what's the fix? Will it be a full release to Hydra? Some other magic? If I just bought a new Mini VOX and don't have a Hydra host I would be really unhappy right now.

Well, color me shocked. I just tried to downgrade my Mini VOX running RC6. I changed to my TE3 host and hit Live TV. No message. Live TV from a TE4 host with a Hydra Mini.


----------



## technotim

I just got a replacement Bolt+ and have the same issue -- can't downgrade it. I tried living with Hydra for a few days, but I've reached a point where I can't stand it anymore.


----------



## Montgomery Burns

This issue really needs to be fixed. I just switched back to tivo to get away from this computer/cell phone interface garbage that DirceTV pushed out only to find that one of my Tivos have practically the same thing stuck on them.


----------



## krkaufman

FYI... a couple other users have reported finally being able to downgrade their DVRs, tonight.

New Roamio can't connect to my old Roamio
I am desperate here(Hydra)-- Can I just move my old hard drive to my new TiVo?


----------



## zaucha

After being unsuccessful trying to downgrade for the past two days the downgrade is running now. 
I spoke with support yesterday and they said they were working on the issue. 

I had Hydra for a few months. There were some nice features but the minuses outweighed the pluses.


----------



## CaseyK24

krkaufman said:


> Quite possibly not, as I'll be directing a couple other threads with unhappy Hydra Mini users to your post. (i.e. Minis running Hydra that refuse to downgrade to the OS being run on their host DVR.)
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. Glad TiVo could at least explain the cause.


Ok mine works fine now also. Much smoother when it Tivo actually has it working


----------



## spinhar1

Hi everyone. I just purchased a new Roamio Pro. Guided setup forced the new Hydra on it. When I tried to downgrade to the older UI, using the two thumbs down, two rewinds and select, nothing happens. Am I doing something wrong or is it not working?? Thanks for any help.


----------



## krkaufman

spinhar1 said:


> Hi everyone. I just purchased a new Roamio Pro. Guided setup forced the new Hydra on it. When I tried to downgrade to the older UI, using the two thumbs down, two rewinds and select, nothing happens. Am I doing something wrong or is it not working?? Thanks for any help.


Try putting your remote control into IR mode before attempting the downgrade button sequence.

IR mode: press & hold TiVo+C
RF mode: press & hold TiVo+D


----------



## spinhar1

Thanks, but my remote is the standard remote, IR only?


----------



## krkaufman

spinhar1 said:


> Thanks, but my remote is the standard remote, IR only?


https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/TiVo-Remotes-RF-Pairing-Instructions


----------



## spinhar1

Thanks I tried that, still no downgrade???


----------



## spinhar1

Appreciate your help.


----------



## krkaufman

spinhar1 said:


> Thanks, but my remote is the standard remote, IR only?


A Roamio remote is not IR-only. Which mode the remote is in is indicated by the color flash of the LED at the top of the remote.



spinhar1 said:


> Thanks I tried that


What is "that"?


----------



## krkaufman

spinhar1 said:


> Roamio Pro ... When I tried to downgrade to the older UI, using the two thumbs down, two rewinds and select, nothing happens.





BadCommand said:


> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)


Some have been confused in the past, so maybe also review the common naming for the remote control buttons to make sure you're pressing the correct buttons, especially for Rewind (<<) and Select/OK. (There shouldn't be confusion over Thumbs Down.)

https://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/RoamioSeries_VG_19AUG2013.pdf (see page 2)
https://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/accessibility/Remote_Control_Guide.pdf


----------



## JoeKustra

This PDF was made by TiVo (I think) to show the process. They should have made a picture of the remote buttons.
How to uninstall Hydra from Bolt


----------



## spinhar1

Numerous tries, still nothing. Set remote to IR. Two thumbs down. Two rewind (double arrow left) and select. Get a "thong sound".. I did notice the first time I entered rewind, no sound. Second push a tone sound.


----------



## krkaufman

spinhar1 said:


> Numerous tries, still nothing. Set remote to IR. Two thumbs down. Two rewind (double arrow left) and select. Get a "thong sound".. I did notice the first time I entered rewind, no sound. Second push a tone sound.


Per the document posted by @JoeKustra, have you tried power-cycling the box? (Maybe even try TiVo Support's go-to sequence... 2 service connections, then power-off ... wait ... and power back on.) And then give the downgrade sequence another try.


----------



## JoeKustra

Another report of failure. I hope TiVo didn't break it again. I tested my Mini VOX and it still needs a Hydra host.

1 question, 1 observation.


----------



## spinhar1

Just did a full clear and delete everything, still no downgrade.


----------



## spinhar1

krkaufman said:


> Per the document posted by @JoeKustra, have you tried power-cycling the box? (Maybe even try TiVo Support's go-to sequence... 2 service connections, then power-off ... wait ... and power back on.) And then give the downgrade sequence another try.


I'll try that next.


----------



## spinhar1

Called Tivo, a 45 minute call, to have them say at the end its a know issue, some people can't downgrade, and of course they don't know when it will be solved. When you have a new Tivo, why doesn't Tivo allow you to choose which UI you want.


----------



## crclum

krkaufman said:


> Per the document posted by @JoeKustra, have you tried power-cycling the box? (Maybe even try TiVo Support's go-to sequence... 2 service connections, then power-off ... wait ... and power back on.) And then give the downgrade sequence another try.


The replacement Roamio that I just received from TiVo came preloaded with Hydra. I don't like it, so I followed the instructions to downgrade. No luck, even trying your suggestions, krkaufman. I am experiencing exactly what spinhar1 describes.

Like spinhar1, I called TiVo, and they told me it was a known issue, their engineers are working on it, and they'll email me when they have a resolution. At which point my now empty Roamio will presumably have some recordings on it, which I will then lose upon downgrading. Sigh.


----------



## JoeKustra

crclum said:


> At which point my now empty Roamio will presumably have some recordings on it, which I will then lose upon downgrading. Sigh.


If the programs are not copy protected, and you have some space on a PC, you can try this program -> Easier to use pyTivo

It's very easy to install and use.

If you have a twitter account, attack them there: @TiVoSupport


----------



## crclum

JoeKustra said:


> If the programs are not copy protected, and you have some space on a PC, you can try this program -> Easier to use pyTivo
> 
> It's very easy to install and use.
> 
> If you have a twitter account, attack them there: @TiVoSupport


Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## schatham

My mini downgraded fine yesterday, Roamio host. It's been in storage and was on hydra last time I was using it.


----------



## JoeKustra

schatham said:


> My mini downgraded fine yesterday, Roamio host. It's been in storage and was on hydra last time I was using it.


When the Mini downgrade was broken, I hoped it would stay that way. I saw no downside (except for the UI) and it seemed quite happy with an Encore host.


----------



## JoeKustra

Report of rollback working -> R.I.P Tivo, The product revision that killed the Tivo


----------



## crclum

crclum said:


> The replacement Roamio that I just received from TiVo came preloaded with Hydra. I don't like it, so I followed the instructions to downgrade. No luck, even trying your suggestions, krkaufman. I am experiencing exactly what spinhar1 describes.
> 
> Like spinhar1, I called TiVo, and they told me it was a known issue, their engineers are working on it, and they'll email me when they have a resolution. At which point my now empty Roamio will presumably have some recordings on it, which I will then lose upon downgrading. Sigh.


Update: Good news -- I kept trying and trying, and it just worked! I don't understand why following the same process exactly yielded different results this time, but I can't complain about the results. I went through the downgrade and guided setup process, and now my Roamio is on the previous UI.


----------



## stile99

crclum said:


> Update: Good news -- I kept trying and trying, and it just worked! I don't understand why following the same process exactly yielded different results this time.


The weekend over, people returned to work and fixed the known issue would be my guess.


----------



## spinhar1

Still can't downgrade.


----------



## crclum

spinhar1 said:


> Still can't downgrade.


Well, that sucks. I just got an email from TiVo Customer Support this morning saying that the issue had been resolved. I took that to mean the issue in general, not merely reflecting that my downgrade was finally successful.


----------



## spinhar1

You're going to love this. Finally was able to get the download screen. Had the download screen, and guided setup. Went thru all that, and at the end was asked to push the Tivo button. Did that and I get Experience 4, not experience 3?????? Tried it twice. What's going on now?


----------



## bcdavid258

Downgraded yesterday with 3 mini’s. Thank you for posting I finally have a responsive tv back.


----------



## matt314159

Hmm, I just got a recertified Bolt today via FedEx. I don't care for Hydra so wanted to roll back.

I do the procedure (noting that rewind is << to the left of the big yellow pause button) and on the second rewind press, the screen just flashes black briefly and then is back to the screen where you choose repeat guided setup. Over. And Over. And Over.

Things I've checked or Tried / Observations

Putting my remote into IR mode
Restarting the TiVo through the menu interface
Power cycling the TiVo
Tried a second IR-only remote
Reset and Delete Everything - Take it back through guided setup. (guided setup takes place in the old interface, then once you press the TiVo button, "Ta-Da!" there's Hydra!)
There is no "dung" type sound on the second rewind like some other users experienced.
I have read every page of this thread. I'm at a loss. I am sad.

The TiVo has been running and connected to the internet for about 7 hours at this point, I hooked it up at lunch today. Is that not enough time?
Have we perhaps reached the point where TiVo forces Hydra and disallowed downgrades? This thread hasn't had a post for a month so I'm a little bit out of the loop.

Any ideas? I'll subscribe so I can be quick to respond.

Perhaps next I'll connect to the tivo service a couple times and see if that does anything. I'll update here after.

EDIT - Nope Connect to TiVo Service didn't help.


----------



## schatham

Make sure your only pressing thumbs down 2 times, not three.


----------



## matt314159

schatham said:


> Make sure your only pressing thumbs down 2 times, not three.


Yep just twice.


----------



## cummingsje

Had this happen with two refurbished 500gb Bolts back in March/April. Both went back as we DOA per TiVo. Are they not checking these units?


----------



## matt314159

cummingsje said:


> Had this happen with two refurbished 500gb Bolts back in March/April. Both went back as we DOA per TiVo. Are they not checking these units?


Ruh-Roh. All the other functionality seems just fine. What's the warranty on the refurbs, is it a full year? I don't think I want to send it back, I'll get used to Hydra. The main thing I don't like right now is it takes about 3 seconds to fully change a channel. If I can sort that, I'll get along just fine.


----------



## RoamioJeff

matt314159 said:


> The main thing I don't like right now is it takes about 3 seconds to fully change a channel.


Jeeze. Three seconds just to change a channel? That would be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## matt314159

It definitely was surprising that it took longer to change the channel than on my 6 year old Premiere, especially since everything else is buttery smooth and lightning quick (I love the fact that I can enter and exit the guide without having the audio and video drop, for instance). I'm wanting to determine if this is just what the Bolt is like in general, or if it had something to do with Hydra. Looks like I'll be doing some searching and reading this weekend.

In the end, I don't think the long channel changes will be a deal breaker since I primarily use this for my season pass recordings and don't do a lot of channel surfing across live TV. But I want it performing at its peak if possible.


----------



## CIR-Engineering

Just got two new BOLT VOXS. Tried to downgrade the first unit... menu came up warning about deleting shows after doing TD, TD, <<, <<; then says press “TD” three times, and then “SELECT” to downgrade. I assume “SELECT” is the “OK” button? I did it and an hour later I have Hydra again. WTF?!?

craigr


----------



## CIR-Engineering

CIR-Engineering said:


> Just got two new BOLTs. Tried to downgrade the first, menu came up warning about deleting shows after doing TD, TD, <<, <<, that says press TD three times and then "SELECT" to downgrade. I assume "SELECT" is the "OK" button? I did it and an hour later I have Hydra again. WTF?!?
> 
> craigr


Well heck, I tried again and it worked. Thank the maker!

craigr


----------



## matt314159

CIR-Engineering said:


> Well heck, I tried again and it worked. Thank the maker!
> 
> craigr


Glad to hear there might be hope! I'm going to wait until tomorrow and then try again, I got too frustrated tonight.


----------



## CIR-Engineering

Now I just put in the 2TB hard drive...

craigr


----------



## HerronScott

matt314159 said:


> It definitely was surprising that it took longer to change the channel than on my 6 year old Premiere, especially since everything else is buttery smooth and lightning quick (I love the fact that I can enter and exit the guide without having the audio and video drop, for instance). I'm wanting to determine if this is just what the Bolt is like in general, or if it had something to do with Hydra. Looks like I'll be doing some searching and reading this weekend.
> 
> In the end, I don't think the long channel changes will be a deal breaker since I primarily use this for my season pass recordings and don't do a lot of channel surfing across live TV. But I want it performing at its peak if possible.


Do you have the output resolution set the same on the Bolt and Premiere (fixed or auto)?

Scott


----------



## schatham

matt314159 said:


> Yep just twice.


Quickly press enter even as it flashes. I'm downgrading now and I got those flashes, still pressed enter, then got the downgrade option. It's down grading now. So it does still work.


----------



## matt314159

HerronScott said:


> Do you have the output resolution set the same on the Bolt and Premiere (fixed or auto)?
> 
> Scott


I've tried Auto, 1080p fixed and 1080i fixed and it's the same.


----------



## matt314159

schatham said:


> Quickly press enter even as it flashes. I'm downgrading now and I got those flashes, still pressed enter, then got the downgrade option. It's down grading now. So it does still work.


I'll try that thanks.

Doing more reading around the forums, I'm actually starting to suspect I have a goofed-up unit. It throws an error trying to load Netflix or Amazon saying the app is already loading or some such, but seeing this guy's post gave me my Eureka! moment.

But I'll try to hit enter as it's flashing and see if that does anything.


----------



## lujan

I should be getting my new Bolt today. Does anyone know if the new Bolts come with Hydra already installed? If so, I may test it out for a few days to see what it's all about before possibly downgrading?


----------



## JoeKustra

lujan said:


> I should be getting my new Bolt today. Does anyone know if the new Bolts come with Hydra already installed? If so, I may test it out for a few days to see what it's all about before possibly downgrading?


If it's not already installed it will be during the installation. When asked to choose a country, hit the remote's Info button. The current software will display. If it starts with 21 you have Hydra installed. If it starts with 20 you have TE3. Please post which you have. Thanks.


----------



## matt314159

matt314159 said:


> I'll try that thanks.
> 
> Doing more reading around the forums, I'm actually starting to suspect I have a goofed-up unit. It throws an error trying to load Netflix or Amazon saying the app is already loading or some such, but seeing this guy's post gave me my Eureka! moment.
> 
> But I'll try to hit enter as it's flashing and see if that does anything.


Tried that today at lunch a bunch of times, no luck. I'm thinking this is related that V312 error thread since NONE of my apps work.


----------



## lafos

I downgraded a 500GB Vox last night. Checked this morning and it is still on 20.7. The downgrade itself was smooth following the instructions in this thread.


----------



## worachj

My downgrade had some problems, but they were "*user error*". For the button sequence to downgrade I keep using the replay button instead of the rewind.

Thanks to the instructions in this thread I realize how dumb I was and used the correct sequence and it worked right away without problems.


----------



## wtherrell

matt314159 said:


> Hmm, I just got a recertified Bolt today via FedEx. I don't care for Hydra so wanted to roll back.
> 
> I do the procedure (noting that rewind is << to the left of the big yellow pause button) and on the second rewind press, the screen just flashes black briefly and then is back to the screen where you choose repeat guided setup. Over. And Over. And Over.
> 
> Things I've checked or Tried / Observations
> 
> Putting my remote into IR mode
> Restarting the TiVo through the menu interface
> Power cycling the TiVo
> Tried a second IR-only remote
> Reset and Delete Everything - Take it back through guided setup. (guided setup takes place in the old interface, then once you press the TiVo button, "Ta-Da!" there's Hydra!)
> There is no "dung" type sound on the second rewind like some other users experienced.
> I have read every page of this thread. I'm at a loss. I am sad.
> 
> The TiVo has been running and connected to the internet for about 7 hours at this point, I hooked it up at lunch today. Is that not enough time?
> Have we perhaps reached the point where TiVo forces Hydra and disallowed downgrades? This thread hasn't had a post for a month so I'm a little bit out of the loop.
> 
> Any ideas? I'll subscribe so I can be quick to respond.
> 
> Perhaps next I'll connect to the tivo service a couple times and see if that does anything. I'll update here after.
> 
> EDIT - Nope Connect to TiVo Service didn't help.


My experience exactly. So POed at Tivo.


----------



## matt314159

wtherrell said:


> My experience exactly. So POed at Tivo.


I think the downgrade issue is related to the V312 error with the apps. Somebody said that the downgrade basically operates as an app so I guess it makes sense. I chatted with TiVo tech support today and they said it's a known issue, and they have no ETA. He did let on that it's an issue that's been happening "off and on" for a couple of YEARS now which, just...wow. 

I'm going to try the instructions in another post when I get home from work which sound totally janky but heck I'll try anything at this point. it involved uninstalling netflix, doing a connect to tivo service, then re-installing it. I very much doubt it will work, but I'll throw anything against the wall and see what sticks.

Worth noting - I bought TWO of these Refurbed 500GB White Bolts and one has the issue and the other doesn't. Too bad I already sold the other one to my friend at cost.


----------



## schatham

When I upgraded to Hydra last week the message stated I would not be able to go back. I was able to to revert back yesterday.


----------



## wtherrell

Called Tivo after exhausting every thing in this thread. They took me through it all again and no joy. I was advised to unplug the Bolt and leave it overnight, and try the procedure again in the morning. If that doesn't work, then they will escalate the problem.


----------



## matt314159

wtherrell said:


> Called Tivo after exhausting every thing in this thread. They took me through it all again and no joy. I was advised to unplug the Bolt and leave it overnight, and try the procedure again in the morning. If that doesn't work, then they will escalate the problem.


Spoiler: It's probably not going to work.  (but let me know if it does)

I was relieved that in my support chat, it let me list all the stuff I had done, and he responded saying, and I quote, "You've done all the troubleshooting steps already. That's good to know you know very well how to try to fix some issues on the box." Then he acknowledged it was a known error and created a ticket, and said they'd let me know once resolved on their end.

I was just relieved that they didn't make me jump through all the hoops again.


----------



## lujan

JoeKustra said:


> If it's not already installed it will be during the installation. When asked to choose a country, hit the remote's Info button. The current software will display. If it starts with 21 you have Hydra installed. If it starts with 20 you have TE3. Please post which you have. Thanks.


I got the Bolt a day late but it's setting up now and the "Info" screen shows as starting with a 20 but it seems to be updating the firmware to Hydra because the Bolt is rebooting. I was hoping I wouldn't have to downgrade but I'll see how this "Hydra" works out before deciding whether or not to downgrade. What is it that people are not liking about "Hydra"?


----------



## JoeKustra

lujan said:


> I got the Bolt a day late but it's setting up now and the "Info" screen shows as starting with a 20 but it seems to be updating the firmware to Hydra because the Bolt is rebooting. I was hoping I wouldn't have to downgrade but I'll see how this "Hydra" works out before deciding whether or not to downgrade. What is it that people are not liking about "Hydra"?


Gee, I don't know where to start. To be clear, I use both. At the top of every page there is a Search box. Enter Hydra and see what shows up. Shouldn't be more than 10 or 20 thousand results.


----------



## jcthorne

My biggest problem with Hydra is not the interface but that it completely locks you out of putting your own content on the box.


----------



## lujan

Oh, you can't transfer content from the PC to the Bolt using PyTiVo?


----------



## HerronScott

lujan said:


> Oh, you can't transfer content from the PC to the Bolt using PyTiVo?


Not with Hydra. You can download with those tools and use Plex to stream to the TiVo.

Scott


----------



## Luke M

lujan said:


> I was hoping I wouldn't have to downgrade but I'll see how this "Hydra" works out before deciding whether or not to downgrade. What is it that people are not liking about "Hydra"?


Removing find by channel/time is a deal breaker for me. I use those quite a bit.


----------



## lujan

HerronScott said:


> Not with Hydra. You can download with those tools and use Plex to stream to the TiVo.
> 
> Scott


Hmm? Maybe I need to rollback from Hydra? I don't use PyTiVo often but it's nice when I do. I guess I can use PyTiVo on my Roamio's and then watch the Roamio shows from the Bolt?


----------



## HerronScott

lujan said:


> Hmm? Maybe I need to rollback from Hydra? I don't use PyTiVo often but it's nice when I do. I guess I can use PyTiVo on my Roamio's and then watch the Roamio shows from the Bolt?


Right, that will work streaming from the Roamio to the Bolt (or transferring it with TiVo Online from the Roamio to the Bolt).

Scott


----------



## JFalc

My new Tivo Bolt VOX arrived with HYDRA, and this downgrade procedure worked, and now it has the standard UI.


----------



## wtherrell

wtherrell said:


> Called Tivo after exhausting every thing in this thread. They took me through it all again and no joy. I was advised to unplug the Bolt and leave it overnight, and try the procedure again in the morning. If that doesn't work, then they will escalate the problem.


Well, of course that didn't work. Guess I will spend today trying to "escalate" why the rollback doesn't work.


----------



## opus123

My white non-Vox 500 GB arrived with software 20.6.3.RC14-USC-11-849. Initial set-up took a long time and auto-upgraded into Hydra. I was able to successfully revert without complication using the directions posted in the thread. Thanks.


----------



## cwoody222

Do I have to downgrade these in a particular order?

I have a TiVo Mini (non-Vox) that is on Hydra connected to a Roamio. I want to downgrade it to go to a new home to be connected to a new Bolt Vox that will also be downgraded.

My plan is this...

1) Unplug my Roamio. My Mini is on my FiOS MoCA network so it doesn't need the Roamio for it's network connection. I'll follow the instructions to downgrade the Mini while it's connected to no host unit at all. I want the Roamio disconnected completely so the Mini won't freak out once it's reverted to the old UI and the Roamio is on Hydra.

2) Once the Mini is downgraded, I'll package it up to take it to it's new home and then plug the Roamio back in so I can watch TV again  I will also contact TiVo to transfer the Mini to the new owner's account.

3) Install the new Bolt. Downgrade as soon as it will let me. It will be set up to Create a MoCA network (it's not going to a FiOS home). Hopefully the new Bolts from the current $99 offer won't prevent me from doing this.

5) Connect the newly downgraded Mini to the downgraded Bolt and hope it all works.

Is this the proper order of operations so I won't get into any problems?

When I first upgraded my Roamio and Mini (when Hydra was first released), I ran into problems with the Mini in a reboot loop when the two weren't on the same UI so I want to try to avoid those types of problems.


----------



## JoeKustra

Sorry, I can't follow your procedure. I can state from experience that a Mini will change its software (if needed) up or down as soon as you attempt to connect to a host. I have changed A93 and A95 Mini units several times without any freakouts.


----------



## cwoody222

Thanks for the info.

I didn’t realize the Mini would prompt itself to downgrade if connected to a downgraded host.

How long will the downgrade on a no -Vox Mini take?


----------



## JoeKustra

cwoody222 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I didn't realize the Mini would prompt itself to downgrade if connected to a downgraded host.
> How long will the downgrade on a no -Vox Mini take?


Under 30 minutes for any Mini either way. Assuming reasonable internet speed.


----------



## cwoody222

Thanks, that’s quicker than I thought.

I guess I’ll just downgrade the brand new Bolt first and then connect the Mini and let it prompt me to downgrade itself.


----------



## JoeKustra

cwoody222 said:


> Thanks, that's quicker than I thought.
> I guess I'll just downgrade the brand new Bolt first and then connect the Mini and let it prompt me to downgrade itself.


Sounds like a plan. Good luck.


----------



## slyone

My bolt/vox downgrade not going well On guided setup I keep getting error c215 " connection problem-tivo service did not give acct status" It recommended unplugging for 15 sec. then repeat guided setup which I did but same error? I then tried my tivo wireless adapter instead but same error...I'm stumped? 

UPDATE: waited an hour & tried a 3rd time & it connected!


----------



## bfagan

I received my summer breeze Bolt Vox Wednesday. Set it up and played with Hydra for quite a while. On Thursday I did the rollback as described in the thread beginning. Now I can use PyTivo again. Plus hydra seemed to take more button pushes to get something done than did pre-hydra. My thanks to the original poster.


----------



## LoadStar

Interesting. On a refurb Bolt 500 GB, I tried a downgrade. I went through the steps, got the message that the downgrade would take about an hour. It went to the classic Getting Started, which I walked through... only to have it complete back into Hydra.

I'm trying again, and it's currently at the "downgrade will take about an hour" spinning wheel again. We'll see if the second time is the charm.

Edit: second time was the charm. Of course, I only downgraded to transfer some stuff off the old TiVo HD. Now I need to re-upgrade to Hydra (or whatever the current proper name is for the new experience).


----------



## cwoody222

Downgraded a new Bolt today, went flawless. Instructions worked perfectly.


----------



## cheitzig

cheitzig said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just bought a summer bolt vox 3tb. I can't get the rollback to work. I apologize for asking for clarification, but I'm going to the repeat guided setup screen, hitting thumbs down twice, hitting rewind twice (I've also tried instant replay twice), and then clicking ok. What am I missing?


Ignore that. I tried left arrow twice and instant replay twice, but not rewind twice. DOH!


----------



## darklyte

bfagan said:


> I received my summer breeze Bolt Vox Wednesday. Set it up and played with Hydra for quite a while. On Thursday I did the rollback as described in the thread beginning. Now I can use PyTivo again. Plus hydra seemed to take more button pushes to get something done than did pre-hydra. My thanks to the original poster.


I did the same, was looking forward to trying out the new TiVo software and found it very clunky and difficult to access most basic functions. Some of the GUI changes and features were nice but just not implemented well at all.

Glad I found this post on how to get rid of horrible Hydra!


----------



## opus123

ugh... completed the downgrade process for Vox 3TB, only to have it boot into Hydra again. trying again with fingers crossed. really need to get some sleep.

edit.. 2nd time worked (not sure why this seems to be common). I used a non-Vox remote the 2nd time in case that helped. 

i like some aspects of the new Hydra interface, but can't afford to lose functionality as i juggle/retire DVRs. I can always upgrade later if the software improves... and (like apple) I'm guessing a time will come where TiVo will prevent units from downgrading, so felt it best to go this route for new units.


----------



## JHawk

Two times was the magic number for me.....


----------



## HerronScott

opus123 said:


> edit.. 2nd time worked (not sure why this seems to be common). I used a non-Vox remote the 2nd time in case that helped.


Did you put the remote in IR mode the first time (required I believe)?

Scott


----------



## Ipecactus

bfagan said:


> I received my summer breeze Bolt Vox Wednesday. Set it up and played with Hydra for quite a while. On Thursday I did the rollback as described in the thread beginning. Now I can use PyTivo again. *Plus hydra seemed to take more button pushes to get something done* than did pre-hydra. My thanks to the original poster.


Yeah this was the deal killer with my wife. We are both developers and it is shocking to us how software across the board is getting worse. More white space, inconsistent designs, more steps to get to a given feature, counter intuitive UI design, lack of basic features that have been around for decades, etc... It's like none of the lessons of the past have moved forward to the newer generation of UI designers and software developers and they're all focused on form (or the latest stack or tool) over function and ease of use.

I'm in the middle of rolling back now. But it's a good warning to me. After 20 years of using Tivo, I need to start looking at alternatives. Tivo is trying to kill what made them great in pursuit of ... I don't know what. But the writing is on the wall.


----------



## sirhcl

Got a new Bolt and was having trouble rolling back. Followed every suggestion in this forum, including the IR remote mode switch, rebooted multiple times, manually connected to Tivo service countless times to verify Internet connectivity, but when I would run the thumbs down x2, rewind x2 on the Repeat Guided Setup screen, the box wouldn't do anything. The light would flash each time acknowledging the button push but it would sit there staring at me with 2 thumbs down on the screen and wouldn't proceed any further. I had a good Internet connection, but was connected wirelessly, so on a whim, i moved to a hardwired ethernet connection and on first attempt, the rollback sequence worked perfectly fine. It had been driving me mad for a couple hours so I wanted to throw it out there to hopefully save some headaches for others.

Thanks to everyone that worked to build this discussion; I didn't even realize rolling back was an option until I game across this on the Googles...


----------



## JoeKustra

Since I decided to put a 3TB drive into my Hydra OTA Roamio, I figure a rollback would be a good method. The 1TB drive was 70% and I have enough space on a TE4 Roamio. There seems to have been some changes. The initial part of the procedure on post 1 still is the same except:
The big arrow just flashes for a second.
You get another confirmation screen where you have to three more thumbs down and Enter to proceed.

I did the rollback with the remote in RF mode. It's not a BTE remote however.


----------



## ej42137

JoeKustra said:


> Since I decided to put a 3TB drive into my Hydra OTA Roamio, I figure a rollback would be a good method. The 1TB drive was 70% and I have enough space on a TE4 Roamio. There seems to have been some changes. The initial part of the procedure on post 1 still is the same except:
> The big arrow just flashes for a second.
> You get another confirmation screen where you have to three more thumbs down and Enter to proceed.
> 
> I did the rollback with the remote in RF mode. It's not a BTE remote however.


BTE is not in your list of TiVo abbreviations. Did you mean "Best Thing Ever" or Baytex Energy?


----------



## JoeKustra

ej42137 said:


> BTE is not in your list of TiVo abbreviations. Did you mean "Best Thing Ever" or Baytex Energy?


Oops. Fixed. I even used the wrong abbreviation: Bluetooth Low Energy - Wikipedia

In my rollback box there's no app to return to TE4. I'm not changing for a few weeks, so I'll wait a while.


----------



## bengalfreak

Wow, this is disheartening. After having my Roamio HDMI port die, I call Tivo and utilize my 3 year extended warranty to have them ship me a new box. They charge me a deposit of $462 until I send my old unit back but I'm still able to watch the old unit in 3 other rooms thru my Tivo minis so I pay it. Day before yesterday, before i've gotten my new roamio Pro. I find that they have shut off service to the old unit. I call tivo and the lady says they automatically shutoff the old box when the new one is shipped. I mean what was the purpose of my paying $400+ if they were going to shut the old box off? Why is that even an option? So I get them to reactivate the old roamio while I await the new one. Then, I find out, they charged my credit card another $462 when they reactivated my old unit. Grr.

And now that I've gotten the new unit, it won't downgrade. I've tried everything in this thread. Multiple data connections to Tivo. Putting the remote in IR mode. C&DE. I've spent half my only day off screwing with this and now, it seems, I'm stuck with Hydra. I am beside myself with anger. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.


----------



## schatham

Swap hard drives.



bengalfreak said:


> Wow, this is disheartening. After having my Roamio HDMI port die, I call Tivo and utilize my 3 year extended warranty to have them ship me a new box. They charge me a deposit of $462 until I send my old unit back but I'm still able to watch the old unit in 3 other rooms thru my Tivo minis so I pay it. Day before yesterday, before i've gotten my new roamio Pro. I find that they have shut off service to the old unit. I call tivo and the lady says they automatically shutoff the old box when the new one is shipped. I mean what was the purpose of my paying $400+ if they were going to shut the old box off? Why is that even an option? So I get them to reactivate the old roamio while I await the new one. Then, I find out, they charged my credit card another $462 when they reactivated my old unit. Grr.
> 
> And now that I've gotten the new unit, it won't downgrade. I've tried everything in this thread. Multiple data connections to Tivo. Putting the remote in IR mode. C&DE. I've spent half my only day off screwing with this and now, it seems, I'm stuck with Hydra. I am beside myself with anger. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.


----------



## bengalfreak

schatham said:


> Swap hard drives.


thanks for the reply, but I mean any ideas that doesn't involve me being out $100 and voiding what's left of my extended warranty.


----------



## schatham

bengalfreak said:


> thanks for the reply, but I mean any ideas that doesn't involve me being out $100 and voiding what's left of my extended warranty.


You will be out nothing. Swap the old HD with the new one and send the old one back.


----------



## bengalfreak

schatham said:


> You will be out nothing. Swap the old HD with the new one and send the old one back.


Ahh. But I'll lose all my recordings.


----------



## bengalfreak

Well after a phone call to tiVo and the tech representative promising she would escalate the ticket up the chain when the procedure didn't work, my roamio is busy downgrading itself. Woohoo.


----------



## Joey Paree

Completed the downgrade but TiVo automatically connects to services after guide set up begins and then upgrades the software back to TE4! How do I prevent this from happening?


----------



## JoeKustra

Joey Paree said:


> Completed the downgrade but TiVo automatically connects to services after guide set up begins and then upgrades the software back to TE4! How do I prevent this from happening?


I don't know but you are scaring me.


----------



## UCLABB

Joey Paree said:


> Completed the downgrade but TiVo automatically connects to services after guide set up begins and then upgrades the software back to TE4! How do I prevent this from happening?


Why are you running guided set up again? Downgrade to TE3 AFTER you run guided setup.

That said, I'm surprised that it is doing that. I hope I don't have to run guided set up again since I don't want to lose all my recordings when I downgrade.


----------



## JoeKustra

UCLABB said:


> Why are you running guided set up again? Downgrade to TE3 AFTER you run guided setup.
> That said, I'm surprised that it is doing that. I hope I don't have to run guided set up again since I don't want to lose all my recordings when I downgrade.


A new TiVo is shipped with 20.6.3 (from other reports). The initial GS runs twice. First time to get update, then you get asked for the country again. When you finish, you can begin the rollback. You will have to run GS with 20.7.4.RC42 as if it's a new box. I wonder if there needs to be a delay before the rollback is started? There are items, like the initial VCM connection, that need about 30 minutes to complete.


----------



## schatham

Joey Paree said:


> Completed the downgrade but TiVo automatically connects to services after guide set up begins and then upgrades the software back to TE4! How do I prevent this from happening?


Are you sure it down graded? It does an initial down grade download, but is not reversed yet. You need to connect again, then restart the box.


----------



## TivoJD

UCLABB said:


> Why are you running guided set up again? Downgrade to TE3 AFTER you run guided setup.
> 
> That said, I'm surprised that it is doing that. I hope I don't have to run guided set up again since I don't want to lose all my recordings when I downgrade.


When you downgrade, you automatically have to repeat guided setup. See .pdf in the below post, step 4. Also, downgrading does wipe all recordings from box.

How to uninstall Hydra from Bolt


----------



## Tatergater

Rollback on Bolt and 2 Minis worked like a charm! Yeah!!!! 

I followed the steps posted here (2 thumbs down etc) on my Bolt. Wiped the recordings and successfully reset up to the old TiVo interface. My 2 Minis automatically followed suit after the Bolt was rolled back. No need to disconnect them. Just followed the prompts on Mini screens and VOILA! I’m now back my good old TiVos. HURRAY! 

Yes, you will LOSE ALL recordings and then reset up one passes etc again on Bolt, but it was SO worth it to get away from the Hydra interface. I hated that. Too confusing. I really tried to like it and gave it 3 mths but I was always frustrated with the layout. It Always got in the way and it was hard to see past all the graphics to do what you wanted to do. Again-I totally hated the Hydra UI. 

If you are like me and want the original layout back, you won’t regret the small hassle of doing the rollback. it was no hassle and definitely easy. Kind of hard at first to give up all my recordings, but it was more than a fair price to pay to start loving TiVo all over again. 

Hopefully TIVO was get the message and will implement something much better in the future. I’m so grateful the rollback was actually possible and that TiVo didn’t block it. 

Thanks to everyone in the forum who figured this all out and got the word out to loyal TiVo lovers like me. I’ve been using TiVo’s for almost 20 years now and can’t ever imagine using anything else. The product is superior to all other service. Take note TiVo...we love you!


----------



## Ratamacue

Spent a VERY long time on the rollback on a refurb Bolt+. Literally nothing worked on the 1st attempt, but I was finally able to get the process successfully completed.

Thanks to all...


----------



## JamieTF

I recently joined this forum just to post to this thread. I have been visiting it for years for tips and tricks for my TiVo.

I noticed the "try the new experience" message about six weeks ago. I decided to give it a try despite the "this cannot be undone" message, mostly because I assumed the new experience would eventually be mandatory. So I installed Hydra and used it for a couple weeks. I didn't think it was too bad, although I preferred the old UI, probably because I was more familiar with it.

Anyway, after a couple weeks I tried loading shows from my computer to my TiVo Romioa OTA. When I couldn't get it to work, I came here hoping to find some help, and found this thread and learned that feature was removed from Hydra. Needless to say I rolled back immediately. THANK YOU for posting the roll back instructions!

I am still surprised that feature was removed since the folks from TiVo read this forum and know how popular pYtivo and other, similar apps are for transferring shows to and from a TiVo device. A classic case of a company not understanding its customer. TiVo, please be sure to add that feature to Hydra.


----------



## Mikeguy

JamieTF said:


> I recently joined this forum just to post to this thread. I have been visiting it for years for tips and tricks for my TiVo.
> 
> I noticed the "try the new experience" message about six weeks ago. I decided to give it a try despite the "this cannot be undone" message, mostly because I assumed the new experience would eventually be mandatory. So I installed Hydra and used it for a couple weeks. I didn't think it was too bad, although I preferred the old UI, probably because I was more familiar with it.
> 
> Anyway, after a couple weeks I tried loading shows from my computer to my TiVo Romioa OTA. When I couldn't get it to work, I came here hoping to find some help, and found this thread and learned that feature was removed from Hydra. Needless to say I rolled back immediately. THANK YOU for posting the roll back instructions!
> 
> I am still surprised that feature was removed since the folks from TiVo read this forum and know how popular pYtivo and other, similar apps are for transferring shows to and from a TiVo device. A classic case of a company not understanding its customer. TiVo, please be sure to add that feature to Hydra.


From what I read, TiVo didn't remove the feature as much as not pay attention to it (resulting in the same end).


----------



## Ratamacue

Update to my post 358 above. My refurb replacement Bolt+ updated to Hydra without asking! I had successfully rolled back to TE3, then we left town for the weekend and came back to Hydra. I found one other poster who had this happen under similar circumstances in this thread.

The box shipped with Hydra. Any thoughts as to whether that had something to do with updating without permission?


----------



## HuskerMike

"From what I read, TiVo didn't remove the feature as much as not pay attention to it (resulting in the same end). "

I think this is what TiVo gets for seemingly hiring ONLY programmers and UI people who don't use TiVo (or much other technology) at their homes. Anyone who has used a TiVo in any meaningful way will eventually want to transfer shows to and from their PC. Based on the quality of the UI in Hydra, it would REALLY surprise me if there were any programmers at Tivo who have any experience in tech at all.

For those of us who work in design and related fields, it really seems Hydra was designed by accountants. That's the real crux. Any real college-graduated designer would literally laugh at the numerous design rules broken within Hydra. Please, please TiVo - hire at least one person with SOME UI experience. It will be worth the hassle. Just try it once. Stop bringing your ad-sales and custodial staff in to make UI decisions.


----------



## CloudAtlas

HuskerMike said:


> "From what I read, TiVo didn't remove the feature as much as not pay attention to it (resulting in the same end). "
> 
> I think this is what TiVo gets for seemingly hiring ONLY programmers and UI people who don't use TiVo at their homes. Anyone who has used a TiVo in any meaningful way will eventually want to transfer shows to and from their PC. Based on the quality of the UI in Hydra, it would REALLY surprise me if there were any programmers at Tivo who are under the age of 65. It's just such a terrible design. And no transfers.... Hydra is truly something my (sweet but non-technical) mother of 70 would likely create or design. Just bad hiring practices it would seem. I can't think of any other explanation for how truly bad TiVo has become lately.


Summing up:

1. TiVO only hires programmers and UI people
2. TiVO programmers and UI people do not use TiVO at home
3. TiVO programmers are all 65+ 
4. TiVO has bad hiring practices
5. all daily TiVO users will eventually want to transfer shows to/from a PC
6. TE4 UI design by non-technical. TE3 UI design by god

Transferring shows TiVO <=> PC is NOT a requirement for most users. If it were TE4 would allow it. And UIs are very subjective. Lots of people like the TE4 UI. Lots of people think TE3 looks dated (with apologies to god)

Not sure why the UI on a DVR is worth getting annoyed about especially in light of the fact that TE3 UI never went away.


----------



## krkaufman

... or that the merits of one or the other need to be hashed-out, off-topic, in yet another thread.


----------



## mroy5150

I recently had to RMA my TiVo Roamio OTA for a second time and again the replacement box shipped with the Hydra UI pre-installed. Back in March I RMA'd my box and had the same thing happen. At the time I called support and asked them upgrade my Mini's to Hydra and used it for a few weeks before I decided that I didn't like it. It was very slow and not very intuitive. I went through the downgrade process and have been happy ever since until this week when the green LED Power light on the front of the box stopped working and I was also experiencing some intermittent instability issues. The replacement box arrived again with Hydra pre-installed and after the setup process my intent was to downgrade it immediately. Unfortunately the downgrade process didn't work. I used the commands and nothing happened. I also noticed that some functionality on the TiVo Home Screen wasn't available such as What to Watch,Search and Apps. It appeared that the content had not downloaded completely from TiVo. I called TiVo and they indicated that their servers were down and to wait a day. They also indicate that the downgrade process would not work until the device was completely setup. I decided to live with Hydra for the day with the intention of downgrading the next day once it was completely setup. Here is what happened next:

I found that the latest version of Hydra was much better than the version I was using back in March. The performance was much better. I'd say that the interface is just as quick as the older version.
There are more customization options so I can configure the UI to be more to my liking. In fact some of the options that were turned on by default such as the episode strip (which I hated) in recordings are now turned off by default. 
It seems to cache apps when you open them. For example if I load Netflix and then go back to live TV, if I then go back to Netflix it opens immediately without having to reload the app. That's actually a nice feature.
I did verify that the downgrade process is now available and working. I used the command codes and it immediately started the process. When I got to the warning screen I cancelled out of it.
There has been some confusion as to which button is the correct "rewind" button for the procedure. I found it interesting that the TiVo Support Representative told me that it was the "Skip Back" button directly above the 'A' button. That is not correct. It is in fact the << button which is on the circular dial to the left of the pause || button.
I've decided that I'm going to call TiVo and have them force the Hydra UI to my two Mini's. I'm going to use it for a while and see if I change my mind. I can always downgrade later if I want. Hopefully some of this helps if you are trying to downgrade and are experiencing issues.


----------



## JoeKustra

mroy5150 said:


> I've decided that I'm going to call TiVo and have them force the Hydra UI to my two Mini's. I'm going to use it for a while and see if I change my mind. I can always downgrade later if I want. Hopefully some of this helps if you are trying to downgrade and are experiencing issues.


A Mini will change to the software used by the host you assign it to. No call needed. It was working as of yesterday. If it's an A93 or A95, the remote doesn't lose its pairing either.


----------



## mroy5150

JoeKustra said:


> A Mini will change to the software used by the host you assign it to. No call needed. It was working as of yesterday. If it's an A93 or A95, the remote doesn't lose its pairing either.


After forcing the TiVo Service Connection and restarting a couple of times, my Mini's are still on the old version of the UI. If you know how to force the upgrade to Hydra then please post instructions. In the mean time I'm calling TiVo Support.


----------



## krkaufman

mroy5150 said:


> After forcing the TiVo Service Connection and restarting a couple of times, my Mini's are still on the old version of the UI. If you know how to force the upgrade to Hydra then please post instructions. In the mean time I'm calling TiVo Support.


Maybe try going to the host DVR configuration page and re-selecting your Hydra DVR?


----------



## mroy5150

I unfortunately had to call TiVo support again to resolve this issue. If you're main DVR is on the Hydra UI and you want to upgrade your Mini's, on the Mini you need to do the following:

On the main DVR force the connection to the TiVo Service in Network Settings. Once complete restart the DVR.
On the Mini go to Help, then Reset to Defaults, Repeat Guided Setup.
Follow the prompts and you will get to a screen where it asks which main box to connect to, select the main DVR with Hydra on it and the Mini will initiate the update process.
Hope this helps


----------



## JoeKustra

mroy5150 said:


> select the main DVR with Hydra on it and the Mini will initiate the update process.
> Hope this helps


All I ever have needed to do. Either way.

You do need to verify you mean it once or twice.


----------



## CloudAtlas

mroy5150 said:


> *I* *found that the latest version of Hydra was much better than the version I was using back in March. *The performance was much better. The performance was much better. I'd say that the interface is just as quick as the older version.


Exactly. The Hydra update in April/May (21.8.1) stabilized it a lot. Then each of the following updates just improved upon it. Reminds me of early 2012 with TE3 rolling out. TE3 got better with each quarterly update over 6 years.

Taking a quick look at TE3 updates from 2015-2017 shows features we just take for granted now.


----------



## michael1248

billpiper said:


> Followed the following
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> Saw the message about the rollback process, after everything was complete I still have Hydra....


I just tried to the rollback and got the same results...Hydra is still there.

The only difference I saw from the instructions above, was that I did not have to hit the "SELECT" button after hitting the "REWIND" button 2x. It simply went to the right screen and I followed the instructions (THUMBS DOWN 3x) to start the process.

Trying it for a second time....


----------



## michael1248

michael1248 said:


> I just tried to the rollback and got the same results...Hydra is still there.
> 
> The only difference I saw from the instructions above, was that I did not have to hit the "SELECT" button after hitting the "REWIND" button 2x. It simply went to the right screen and I followed the instructions (THUMBS DOWN 3x) to start the process.
> 
> Trying it for a second time....


Well, it seemed to work the second time I tried...but still didn't have to press the "Select" button at the end.


----------



## Mauly

Hmmm. Would this be the solution to the Bolt - TIVI Suggestions no longer works problem?. I never owned a Romeo but I've had 2 Premiers and you can actually view and edit your Thumbs ratings. Does the Romeo have that capability? 
BTW, for those of you who don't what I'm talking about. The BOLT no longer records 'Suggestions' based on YOUR thumbs ratings, but rather, it records programs that are popular among all TIVO users. In other words, a whole lot of crap recordings, tieing up your channels and stressing your HD.


----------



## Mikeguy

Mauly said:


> Hmmm. Would this be the solution to the Bolt - TIVI Suggestions no longer works problem?. I never owned a Romeo but I've had 2 Premiers and you can actually view and edit your Thumbs ratings. Does the Romeo have that capability?
> BTW, for those of you who don't what I'm talking about. The BOLT no longer records 'Suggestions' based on YOUR thumbs ratings, but rather, it records programs that are popular among all TIVO users. In other words, a whole lot of crap recordings, tieing up your channels and stressing your HD.


I believe the Hydra system_ incorporates _your thumbs, but then lots of other stuff, as you note.


----------



## pmrowley

I have a brand-new Bolt Vox 3TB; trying to downgrade it before I put it into service. I've switched the remote to IR only (verified with the flashing red light) and am trying to do the downgrade process, but it does not seem to accept the code. It receives the two thumbs down, I press Rewind twice, followed by OK, and nothing happens. This Tivo has not been activated yet, as I don't want to interrupt the wife's current recording sessions for the Christmas movies that are pretty much nonstop. This was supposed to be a surprise, since the Roamio is nearly full and on Hydra, so I wanted this new box ready to go before I switched the Cable Card to it and made it the primary viewing box. Is it a requirement to have the new box registered with the Tivo service prior to downgrading the software?


----------



## swerver

Hello tcf, its been a while. Which is good - my tivos have been relatively trouble free. So of course I had to go messing with it... anyway I have a roamio plus that I initially upgraded to 3tb. Just this week I pulled that drive out and replaced it with a brand new 8tb using mfsr. When I ran guided setup after finishing the drive upgrade, I got the dreaded S308 error. Retried several times but same thing. I was really worried I was sunk for a moment... some searching prompted me to switch to wireless and try again, which surprisingly actually worked. So my tivo is back up and running (on hydra) with almost 1300 hd hours, switched back to ethernet and all is well, except... I don't have my old recordings, yet.

I originally planned to back up a bunch of recordings to my pc and transfer them back to the tivo after the drive upgrade. I did back them up ok. In order to move them back, my understanding is I need to roll back hydra. Then I would move the recordings to the new 8tb drive, and then upgrade to hydra again. My understanding is that rolling back to hydra causes a loss of all recordings, but upgrading to hydra keeps recordings. So this seems fine and doable, but I'm now worried about bricking my tivo if I get stuck behind the S308 error again, since I'll need to do guided setup 2 more times to complete this plan.

So I'm wondering - does the fact that I got the S308 mean I'll get it again on future guided setups? Can I rely on the wifi workaround? Need to decide if I should risk 2 more guided setups, or just stay where I am now, and watch the transferred recordings via plex? As it stands, it would be really really frustrating if I got stuck behind S308, which from reading on that error, some people just get stuck and tivo support can't help them, they are dead in the water. My roamio is about 5 years old and thus out of warranty, not sure how much support I'd get from tivo trying to get a replacement if this happened.

What say you, oh wise tcf-ers???

Thanks as always for the help!


----------



## schatham

pmrowley said:


> I have a brand-new Bolt Vox 3TB; trying to downgrade it before I put it into service. I've switched the remote to IR only (verified with the flashing red light) and am trying to do the downgrade process, but it does not seem to accept the code. It receives the two thumbs down, I press Rewind twice, followed by OK, and nothing happens. This Tivo has not been activated yet, as I don't want to interrupt the wife's current recording sessions for the Christmas movies that are pretty much nonstop. This was supposed to be a surprise, since the Roamio is nearly full and on Hydra, so I wanted this new box ready to go before I switched the Cable Card to it and made it the primary viewing box. Is it a requirement to have the new box registered with the Tivo service prior to downgrading the software?


I would say it needs to be activated to downgrade. I would suggest activating it, leave it alone for 2 days, allowing it to connect to Tivo, then downgrade. Their have been reports about new Tivo's going back to Hydra if you downgrade immediately.


----------



## mroy5150

pmrowley said:


> I have a brand-new Bolt Vox 3TB; trying to downgrade it before I put it into service. I've switched the remote to IR only (verified with the flashing red light) and am trying to do the downgrade process, but it does not seem to accept the code. It receives the two thumbs down, I press Rewind twice, followed by OK, and nothing happens. This Tivo has not been activated yet, as I don't want to interrupt the wife's current recording sessions for the Christmas movies that are pretty much nonstop. This was supposed to be a surprise, since the Roamio is nearly full and on Hydra, so I wanted this new box ready to go before I switched the Cable Card to it and made it the primary viewing box. Is it a requirement to have the new box registered with the Tivo service prior to downgrading the software?


The "Downgrade Function" is not available until you have activated the device and it has downloaded all subscription related data. After mine was activated it took a few hours for the downgrade function to become available. There are many capabilities that have to be downloaded from the TiVo servers such as apps, what to watch, suggestions and apparently the downgrade function.


----------



## jtashiro

pmrowley said:


> I have a brand-new Bolt Vox 3TB; trying to downgrade it before I put it into service. I've switched the remote to IR only (verified with the flashing red light) and am trying to do the downgrade process, but it does not seem to accept the code. It receives the two thumbs down, I press Rewind twice, followed by OK, and nothing happens. This Tivo has not been activated yet, as I don't want to interrupt the wife's current recording sessions for the Christmas movies that are pretty much nonstop. This was supposed to be a surprise, since the Roamio is nearly full and on Hydra, so I wanted this new box ready to go before I switched the Cable Card to it and made it the primary viewing box. Is it a requirement to have the new box registered with the Tivo service prior to downgrading the software?


Curious to know, were you able to downgrade? I recently had to return a new Bolt OTA DVR because it was shipped with a version of software that was not downgradeable. This was after 2 days updates, etc., the Tivo customer service rep confirmed that the original software version shipped with the unit would not receive the downgrade patch... have others experienced this I wonder?


----------



## mroy5150

jtashiro said:


> Curious to know, were you able to downgrade? I recently had to return a new Bolt OTA DVR because it was shipped with a version of software that was not downgradeable. This was after 2 days updates, etc., the Tivo customer service rep confirmed that the original software version shipped with the unit would not receive the downgrade patch... have others experienced this I wonder?


The downgrade capability did become available. I used the sequence on the remote to begin the downgrade process just to make sure it was available and then I cancelled out before it started. I determined that the latest version of the Hydra OS was much improved from 8 months ago when I first tried it so I decided to keep Hydra. My biggest complaint the first time was how slow and sluggish the interface was. It also lacked the ability to customize some of the behavior. The latest version has improved upon those deficiencies. If those were you're issues I'd suggest you use it for a week and see how you like it. Especially with the new Bolt that has better hardware then my Roamio OTA I'm sure you will be satisfied with the performance.


----------



## jtashiro

mroy5150 said:


> The downgrade capability did become available. I used the sequence on the remote to begin the downgrade process just to make sure it was available and then I cancelled out before it started. I determined that the latest version of the Hydra OS was much improved from 8 months ago when I first tried it so I decided to keep Hydra. My biggest complaint the first time was how slow and sluggish the interface was. It also lacked the ability to customize some of the behavior. The latest version has improved upon those deficiencies. If those were you're issues I'd suggest you use it for a week and see how you like it. Especially with the new Bolt that has better hardware then my Roamio OTA I'm sure you will be satisfied with the performance.


Thanks - I'll wait for the pyTivo remedy and then walk thru the new UI with family and see if they are willing to put up with the change.


----------



## RoamioJeff

jtashiro said:


> Thanks - I'll wait for the pyTivo remedy and then walk thru the new UI with family and see if they are willing to put up with the change.


I'll never understand why they broke that feature in their newest software release.


----------



## celtic pride

I switched to hydra,but now i wish i hadn't my wife hates it! when i use to switch channels on my roamio pro it would save my 30 minutes of viewing time ,for example when i would change channel to 507 ABC in los angeles ,and then go back to cnn channel 600 by hitting enter button it would save the programming on cnn while i was on ABC,BUt now on hydra it dumps the programming on cnn so now i cant see what was on the 30 minutes or so while i was watching ABC. am i doing something wrong,or is this how hydra works ? To make matters worse now not even the tivo premiere in my bedroom wont save the programming buffer anymore either. i was going to switch the tivo pro to the bedroom and the tivo premiere to the living room so my wife woudn't have to mess with hydra, but now i'm stuck because i have a lot of progams on the pro and dont want to lose all my recordings ,I guess i'll be in the dog house for a while!


----------



## sga000

michael1248 said:


> Well, it seemed to work the second time I tried...but still didn't have to press the "Select" button at the end.


My experience was like yours in both respects. I just got a "renewed" Bolt VOX because my old Bolt failed with a crashed hard drive, i.e. 4 blinking lights (1 year, 8 months old). I did not have to hit SELECT after 2 rewinds. Also, downgrading did not work until the second time I tried. On the first try, I had gone through all of the guided setup, getting listings, etc., but I had NOT paired the cable card. After failure on the first try, I DID pair the cable card, then attempted downgrade for the second time. It worked. I can't say if it's because I paired the cable card or because somehow the second time is the charm! Based on what you said, it seems like the cable card pairing was not what caused it to succeed.

EDIT: To be clear, when I said downgrade did not work the first time, it did go through the entire process, seemingly successful, but it wasn't. I wanted to distinguish this from someone who said they didn't even get the option to downgrade when doing the 2 thumbs down and 2 rewinds.


----------



## JoeKustra

celtic pride said:


> I switched to hydra,but now i wish i hadn't my wife hates it! when i use to switch channels on my roamio pro it would save my 30 minutes of viewing time ,for example when i would change channel to 507 ABC in los angeles ,and then go back to cnn channel 600 by hitting enter button it would save the programming on cnn while i was on ABC,BUt now on hydra it dumps the programming on cnn so now i cant see what was on the 30 minutes or so while i was watching ABC. am i doing something wrong,or is this how hydra works ? To make matters worse now not even the tivo premiere in my bedroom wont save the programming buffer anymore either. i was going to switch the tivo pro to the bedroom and the tivo premiere to the living room so my wife woudn't have to mess with hydra, but now i'm stuck because i have a lot of progams on the pro and dont want to lose all my recordings ,I guess i'll be in the dog house for a while!


Hydra-mira-TE4 works the same as TE3-Encore-quattro.

While watching a channel, hit right. The panel displays all tuners. If the channel you want is displayed you will jump to that tuner and your old channel keeps doing its buffering. If it's NOT there, your existing tuner will change to your desired channel and you lose the buffer. The Enter (Last) key still works, but you are not changing tuners, so a clean buffer starts.

BTW, are suggestions enabled? If so you will see red dots if the tuner is recording and those tuners are in use. With six tuners you have a good chance that there is a tuner already on your desired destination channel. If true, you do not lose that buffer from the old channel. Example:

If on my Roamio the tuners are on channels 2, 3, 4 and I'm watching 5. If I select 2, I get its buffer and 5 is unaffected. Enter (Last) returns me to 5 and no buffers are affected. But if I choose channel 6. My tuner moves to 6 and starts a new buffer. Now Enter (Last) moves this tuner back to 5 and I have a buffer that is empty.


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## CloudAtlas

RoamioJeff said:


> I'll never understand why they broke that feature in their newest software release.


So you want TiVO to maintain backwards compatibility for unsupported 3rd party software? Apple iOS and Microsoft Windows don't even offer that and, unlike TiVO OS, those are general purpose operating systems sold to the public.


----------



## schatham

JoeKustra said:


> Hydra-mira-TE4 works the same as TE3-Encore-quattro.
> 
> While watching a channel, hit right. The panel displays all tuners. If the channel you want is displayed you will jump to that tuner and your old channel keeps doing its buffering. If it's NOT there, your existing tuner will change to your desired channel and you lose the buffer.
> 
> .


In this case just choose another tuner and then change that channel to save the buffer on the current channel.


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## sliderbob

I rolled back my 8TB Tivo Roamio from Hydra and it went into an endless loop...always starting up, then saying almost ready, then rebooting, so I took out the drive and formatted it and put it back in, so it would go to the setup screen, then took it out and used the MFS formatter. Put it back in and it is working, but now shows acquiring signal from the Cablecard...so it is worthless and I am now using OTA with it. BEWARE to NOT rollback if you are using a drive larger than 3TB.


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## ggieseke

sliderbob said:


> I rolled back my 8TB Tivo Roamio from Hydra and it went into an endless loop...always starting up, then saying almost ready, then rebooting, so I took out the drive and formatted it and put it back in, so it would go to the setup screen, then took it out and used the MFS formatter. Put it back in and it is working, but now shows acquiring signal from the Cablecard...so it is worthless and I am now using OTA with it. BEWARE to NOT rollback if you are using a drive larger than 3TB.


Did you re-pair the CableCARD after reformatting the drive?


----------



## sliderbob

ggieseke said:


> Did you re-pair the CableCARD after reformatting the drive?


It wouldn't re-pair. It is just like inserting a card into a new unit and I don't have the time or money for a Xfinity tech to come out on a $50 or $100 tech visit, which could take as long as a week.


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## HerronScott

sliderbob said:


> It wouldn't re-pair. It is just like inserting a card into a new unit and I don't have the time or money for a Xfinity tech to come out on a $50 or $100 tech visit, which could take as long as a week.


You don't need a tech/truck roll to repair a CableCARD. Either try the online site or call the Comcast CableCARD support number. Online may not work since it was already paired but the support number should take care of it.

Pair or Activate Your CableCARD - Self-Installation Setup

Welcome Page

"call the CableCARD Support Line at 1-877-405-2298 and press option *2 *to activate Xfinity TV services"


----------



## ggieseke

877-405-2298 is the direct CableCARD pairing number for Comcast. They're great, and you don't need a tech visit.

Edit: Beat me to the punch.


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## sliderbob

Last time I did that, they could not pair it-I was on the phone line for about 1/2 hour, so they set up a service call and I had to wait for someone to come out. I don't know why, but that's what happened? 

I even tried the online cablecard activation-recently and in the past, but after entering all the valid info of the card, it gives me an error and to call that number. What's the point of having online cablecard activation when it doesn't work?


----------



## sliderbob

It's just easier for me to use the OTA setting on my Tivo-get a few different channels that I couldn't get with Xfinity. I'm thinking of just cancelling Xfinity..a lot less problems and I still get my locals.


----------



## OKCRandy

I am in downgrade hell. I purchased the Bolt OTA during the holiday sale and when I received it and tried to downgrade it would not downgrade. I contacted TiVo support and after a week of no results to downgrade. They opted to send me another unit. After receiving the second unit, I had the same experience the unit simply will not downgrade. So I contacted support again and explained everything about not being able to downgrade and this being the second unit. They wanted to send me a third unit. I told them obviously that was not logical unless they could send me a unit that was already downgraded. The back door code thumbs down twice rewind twice simply does not get me to the downgrade option.

Anyone have any advise for me? I hate Hydra (experience 4) gui.

I also notice that the fan noise in the bolt is noticeable.


----------



## JoeKustra

OKCRandy said:


> Anyone have any advise for me? I hate Hydra (experience 4) gui.
> I also notice that the fan noise in the bolt is noticeable.


There's the CS standard suggestion: forced service connection three times sequentially. Then leave it alone for a day. Put the remote in IR mode (red LED).


----------



## OKCRandy

JoeKustra said:


> There's the CS standard suggestion: forced service connection three times sequentially. Then leave it alone for a day. Put the remote in IR mode (red LED).


Thank you Joe,
Unfortunately that did not work, think I will be stuck with trying a 3rd unit, if they do not get back to me soon.
Randy


----------



## JoeKustra

OKCRandy said:


> Thank you Joe,
> Unfortunately that did not work, think I will be stuck with trying a 3rd unit, if they do not get back to me soon.
> Randy


I wish you luck. I had a Roamio which had its hard drive replaced. The "get new experience" app was missing. To get it back to TE4 I bought a VOX remote.


----------



## wtherrell

Well I just gave up on downgrading the Bolt +. I bit the bullet to lose my recordings and went through the procedure. It seemed to work at first. Then of course I had to go through guided setup. I was eager to see my Bolt with the downgraded software. After set up was complete I hit the Tivo button. To my sorrow, Hydra was still there and all my recordings were gone! I guess resistance was futile and I have been assimilated.


----------



## schatham

wtherrell said:


> Well I just gave up on downgrading the Bolt +. I bit the bullet to lose my recordings and went through the procedure. It seemed to work at first. Then of course I had to go through guided setup. I was eager to see my Bolt with the downgraded software. After set up was complete I hit the Tivo button. To my sorrow, Hydra was still there and all my recordings were gone! I guess resistance was futile and I have been assimilated.


You need to connect to tivo again, then restart.


----------



## JoeKustra

You can see the current software by hitting the Info button when asked to choose a country. 20.* is TE3, 21.* is TE4.


----------



## reneg

wtherrell said:


> Well I just gave up on downgrading the Bolt +. I bit the bullet to lose my recordings and went through the procedure. It seemed to work at first. Then of course I had to go through guided setup. I was eager to see my Bolt with the downgraded software. After set up was complete I hit the Tivo button. To my sorrow, Hydra was still there and all my recordings were gone! I guess resistance was futile and I have been assimilated.


It worked for me. I restored my Bolt to the TE3 UI without issue over the weekend.


----------



## wtherrell

schatham said:


> You need to connect to tivo again, then restart.


OK, at what point in the process do I need to manually reconnect to Tivo and restart?


----------



## schatham

wtherrell said:


> OK, at what point in the process do I need to manually reconnect to Tivo and restart?


I just remember after downgrading it seemed not to work, so I just connected to Tivo server and restarted the Tivo and then it completed the downgrade. Give it a try.

If not, start over and try again.


----------



## shwru980r

sliderbob said:


> I rolled back my 8TB Tivo Roamio from Hydra and it went into an endless loop...always starting up, then saying almost ready, then rebooting, so I took out the drive and formatted it and put it back in, so it would go to the setup screen, then took it out and used the MFS formatter. Put it back in and it is working, but now shows acquiring signal from the Cablecard...so it is worthless and I am now using OTA with it. BEWARE to NOT rollback if you are using a drive larger than 3TB.


I had to do the same thing when I rolled back my White Label WD Easystore 8TB drive on my Roamio OTA. The hard drive is still going strong after 13 months.


----------



## wtherrell

schatham said:


> I just remember after downgrading it seemed not to work, so I just connected to Tivo server and restarted the Tivo and then it completed the downgrade. Give it a try.
> 
> If not, start over and try again.


Finally got it to downgrade and stick! Thank you!
When the "Country" selection appeared I power cycled the Tivo. Then next time I power cycled after the initial download in GS. Then after cable provider selection download I forced another connection and restarted. Perhaps a little overkill but it finally worked and Hydra is gone........ at least for now.
Thank all of you for the inspiration to persevere.


----------



## krkaufman

celtic pride said:


> I switched to hydra, but now i wish i hadn't my wife hates it! ... I guess i'll be in the dog house for a while!


Add a VOX Remote and maybe the voice features will mitigate the pain?


----------



## OKCRandy

wtherrell said:


> Finally got it to downgrade and stick! Thank you!
> When the "Country" selection appeared I power cycled the Tivo. Then next time I power cycled after the initial download in GS. Then after cable provider selection download I forced another connection and restarted. Perhaps a little overkill but it finally worked and Hydra is gone........ at least for now.
> Thank all of you for the inspiration to persevere.


You are lucky I am still trying to downgrade. I contacted support yesterday and was told that I am not the only one with the issue and they are working on a fix. No idea of how long it will be.


----------



## wpatters1229

We have two Romio


TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have two Roamios and upgraded just one. My wife tried to get to like it but was finding it hard to see with the background and function was confusing. She is not computer savvy but had also found the previous version easy to use. We are converting back but want to add our findings that are good with Hydra: The Guide is much better than the old one. Tivo should find a way to upgrade just that feature. The menu with the ability to create your own quick links was nice. One thing that I have been bugging Tivo to add to any level of code is the ability to search the One Pass listings. We should be able to sort by alphabet or just do a search. We have over 100 one passes and it becomes a pain sometimes to find things. 
OK, my two cents worth!! Going to try the revert today. 
One other thing...you should have the ability to transfer a recording and THEN watch it later. The Hydra does a streaming viewing and it does not always work well if the home network is flaky or other folks are download things using the WiFi. I always would start a transfer and then go back to watch it later and eliminated the glitchy streaming.


----------



## HerronScott

wpatters1229 said:


> The Guide is much better than the old one. Tivo should find a way to upgrade just that feature.


What makes it better than the TE3 guide (I assume you are comparing grid guide to grid guide)?



wpatters1229 said:


> One thing that I have been bugging Tivo to add to any level of code is the ability to search the One Pass listings. We should be able to sort by alphabet or just do a search. We have over 100 one passes and it becomes a pain sometimes to find things.


This would be the same issue for both TE3 or TE4. Have you tried managing them in either the app, online or with kmttg? I don't think they have those options either but it still may be easier.



wpatters1229 said:


> One other thing...you should have the ability to transfer a recording and THEN watch it later. The Hydra does a streaming viewing and it does not always work well if the home network is flaky or other folks are download things using the WiFi. I always would start a transfer and then go back to watch it later and eliminated the glitchy streaming.


I would vote for making sure the network is up to snuff. Streaming from TiVo to TiVo is the same function that the Mini relies on so definitely look at some type of hardwired network connection like Ethernet, MoCA or Powerline if your wireless network is not able to handle it.

Scott


----------



## Series 2

Does anyone know..has this issue with rolling back to TE3 been resolved by tivo? I'm thinking of buying a new one but absolutely will not if I can't rollback from hydra.


----------



## OKCRandy

Series 2 said:


> Does anyone know..has this issue with rolling back to TE3 been resolved by tivo? I'm thinking of buying a new one but absolutely will not if I can't rollback from hydra.


I called them last Thursday Jan 17 because I am still not able to downgrade my new Bolt OTA. Support just told me they are working on it. I have been trying for over a month to downgrade. Best thing to do is to call TiVo and ask.


----------



## LVKeith

Today I tried to upgrade my Bolt Vox to TE 4 (which came with TE4 which I downgraded to TE3). When I attempted upgrade to TE for through "Get New Experience" app, I was warned that I would not be able to roll back to TE3 under any circumstances. So it looks like Tivo has begun closing the door on rollbacks somewhat. I decided not to upgrade at this time.


----------



## krkaufman

LVKeith said:


> Today I tried to upgrade my Bolt Vox to TE 4 (which came with TE4 which I downgraded to TE3). When I attempted upgrade to TE for through "Get New Experience" app, I was warned that I would not be able to roll back to TE3 under any circumstances. So it looks like Tivo has begun closing the door on rollbacks somewhat. I decided not to upgrade at this time.


A pic of that warning dialog would be most welcome.


----------



## LVKeith

Here you go - pic of warning attached.


----------



## Toni

Yikes.....


----------



## JoeKustra

Toni said:


> Yikes.....


I have found it risky to believe whatever TiVo publishes or information from the CS people. That said.

I bought a Roamio OTA which became Hydra with initial Guided Setup. I used it for a while, then did a rollback. The rollback was fine and I started using it to hold movies. After a few months I decided to go back to Mira. Oddly, there was no "Get New Experience" app on the box. Long story short: TiVo said I needed to return the unit to get TE4. I did the other thing: bought a VOX remote, hit the blue voice button and upgraded. If I get bored, I may move 1TB of stuff to another TiVo and see if that message is true.


----------



## krkaufman

LVKeith said:


> When I attempted upgrade to TE for through "Get New Experience" app, I was warned that I would not be able to roll back to TE3 under any circumstances.





LVKeith said:


> Here you go - pic of warning attached.
> View attachment 38814


Dear @TiVo_Ted, this seems a major change from previous policy. Can you confirm that rollback to TE3 is no longer allowed? (please, and thank you)


----------



## JoeKustra

Ted hasn't been here since 1/14. Last on Twitter 1/19.

I wonder if I buy a used box on eBay I will get that message.


----------



## Lurker1

Bad news. I just checked on my TE3 Roamio OTA, and see the same warning about no possibility to downgrade if I were to upgrade.


----------



## LVKeith

Did a little bit of research and did find that in a youtube video published all the way back in Dec 2017 (by Tivo) this warning was displayed then too. So it is not something new. Not sure if it is OK to publish links here but the video is easy to find on youtube. Just search for "upgrade to Hydra".

At the 0.53 second mark you can see the same warning given before updating. So this warning is not something new. No way to know if it's enforced now or has ever been enforced.


----------



## JoeKustra

While I don't have a free TiVo to test the change on, it's possible this was the original message. Then somebody wrote a new procedure and changed the message.

Consider: this thread started 11/2/2017.


----------



## Lurker1

I seem to remember that the warning used to say you will lose all recordings if you roll back, not that it is impossible to roll back. ???


----------



## schatham

LVKeith said:


> Here you go - pic of warning attached.
> View attachment 38814


This message was their for about a year after Hydra came out, but you could still downgrade. Then the message went away, so who knows, but I bet you can still downgrade. Remember most people have no idea about this forum and how to downgrade, so the message is for them, meaning no app to downgrade.

Edit, I see a few of you stated the same thing.

About a week ago I tried Hydra and then downgraded without a problem, I don't think that message was their.


----------



## JoeKustra

Some pretty pictures to review. Quite the history: https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu...e-4-to-the-previous-user-interface-pdf.34913/

Rollback Bolt VOX Hydra to Classic


----------



## krkaufman

Lurker1 said:


> I seem to remember that the warning used to say you will lose all recordings if you roll back, not that it is impossible to roll back. ???


I expect the "lose all recordings" warning still exists on TE4 when attempting the downgrade.


----------



## Credo

I received a Vox today as a replacement for my broken (4 flashing lights) Bolt+. As soon as I discovered there was no longer a TIVO Live Guide available (just the horrible grid) I called TIVO to complain wanting a Bolt+ back instead. They told me I could downgrade and I just did so successfully. So it is still possible to downgrade. 

I have been a TIVO user since 2001 and why they would remove one of TIVO's best features is beyond me.


----------



## krusir

I got a Bolt VOX OTA. I don't like the workflow of the new UI. I tried Thumbs_Downx2 + RWDx2 many times, just no-op. Nothing happened after press them. Power cycle, doing router port mapping to all ports listed in TiVo network testing page, did go through all "clear all" from the box and re-do all setup. Still the same. Just no response for downgrade. I really don't know why TiVo make this downgrade key sequence "Hit or Miss" per users. 

I've been contact support for this a few times. Finally they declare my box was a defective one. Everything works fine for the box. Are they put some "FUSE" to able to downgrade and my "FUSE" is burned. Being in computer software industry for 20+ years, I don't know why this downgrade thing can not be make it easier for users.

I will get a new free replacement in next few days. I still wondering will the downgrade works for me with the new one. I saw some post that someone had the same as my case, 2nd one still not going to downgrade.


----------



## JoeKustra

krusir said:


> I will get a new free replacement in next few days. I still wondering will the downgrade works for me with the new one. I saw some post that someone had the same as my case, 2nd one still not going to downgrade.


Two things: check the manufacturing date on the rear, and hit the Info button when asked for a country. That displays the current software. Good Luck.


----------



## Davelnlr_

krusir said:


> I will get a new free replacement in next few days. I still wondering will the downgrade works for me with the new one. I saw some post that someone had the same as my case, 2nd one still not going to downgrade.


I just got my SECOND replacement Tivo+ VOX, and it will NOT go back to the old menus. Tivo has totally just lost a customer. Im going to just throw this bolt in the closet for a backup and keep using my Premier until it dies.


----------



## schatham

krusir said:


> I got a Bolt VOX OTA. I don't like the workflow of the new UI. I tried Thumbs_Downx2 + RWDx2 many times, just no-op. Nothing happened after press them. Power cycle, doing router port mapping to all ports listed in TiVo network testing page, did go through all "clear all" from the box and re-do all setup. Still the same. Just no response for downgrade. I really don't know why TiVo make this downgrade key sequence "Hit or Miss" per users.
> 
> I've been contact support for this a few times. Finally they declare my box was a defective one. Everything works fine for the box. Are they put some "FUSE" to able to downgrade and my "FUSE" is burned. Being in computer software industry for 20+ years, I don't know why this downgrade thing can not be make it easier for users.
> 
> I will get a new free replacement in next few days. I still wondering will the downgrade works for me with the new one. I saw some post that someone had the same as my case, 2nd one still not going to downgrade.


I hope your not going from a new Bolt to a refurbished one. I think I would keep my new one.


----------



## HerronScott

Davelnlr_ said:


> I just got my SECOND replacement Tivo+ VOX, and it will NOT go back to the old menus. Tivo has totally just lost a customer. Im going to just throw this bolt in the closet for a backup and keep using my Premier until it dies.


Seems odd that some people are having no problems downgrading while others are having issues. I couldn't see getting a replacement as I don't see this as possibly being any kind of hardware issue.

Scott


----------



## JoeKustra

HerronScott said:


> Seems odd that some people are having no problems downgrading while others are having issues. I couldn't see getting a replacement as I don't see this as possibly being any kind of hardware issue.
> Scott


I agree 99%. There are still items that we don't have control over that might be related. Inside my basic Roamio is a coin (2032) battery. One day I removed it and shorted out the connections. I could detect no changes. I have seen more than one post where TiVo's CS said to return a unit that wouldn't downgrade. No, I don't trust them, but I also don't think they would offer such a move without being told by someone with a brain that it will work. I took a TE4 back to TE3 and it didn't have the upgrade icon. TiVo told me to return the unit. I had to buy the VOX remote with the blue button to make it upgrade.


----------



## mdavej

Credo said:


> I received a Vox today as a replacement for my broken (4 flashing lights) Bolt+. As soon as I discovered there was no longer a TIVO Live Guide available (just the horrible grid)


Strange. Mine has a mini live guide that shows just as many programs as the old live guide. But I actually took the time to learn how to use it before rushing to judgement.


----------



## schatham

mdavej said:


> Strange. Mine has a mini live guide that shows just as many programs as the old live guide. But I actually took the time to learn how to use it before rushing to judgement.


It's not even close to the same thing!


----------



## mdavej

schatham said:


> It's not even close to the same thing!


I see 7 channels on the left, and a list of the next 8 programs on the right. Only difference is one more channel on live guide, and the program list is horizontal and shows thumbnails. Pretty damn close. OP said it only had a grid guide, which is incorrect.


----------



## Toni

I'm sure when they replace the TiVo for one that they say will downgrade, you're replacing a new unit with a refurb, right? That's maddening.


----------



## philhu

CloudAtlas said:


> So you want TiVO to maintain backwards compatibility for unsupported 3rd party software? Apple iOS and Microsoft Windows don't even offer that and, unlike TiVO OS, those are general purpose operating systems sold to the public.


It isnt backward compatability to 3rd party software. What they did was remove some of their published api that pytivo was using without saying to anyone they were doing so!

They have done it before, with the mind server. Tivo used to be able to record internet stuff like the old Revision 3 internet shows using mind server. It would find them and push the requests 'by magic' to record them, like regular shows. Then one day, without even telling their CSR people, they removed it.


----------



## JoeKustra

Last week I bought a replacement basic Roamio from Weeknees. As expected it ships with 20.7.3 but upgrades to current TE4 during GS. I waited for it to finish then entered the procedure to rollback. It failed. I then I paired the remote. It decided it liked the upstairs Roamio better. It was getting late so I pulled the plug and walked away to watch TV.

This morning I powered off all Mini and Roamio units. I performed a global reset on the remote. I applied power to the unit and let it finish the second phase of getting guide data. When it was done, I tried the rollback. Worked fine. Hit a button on the remote and it paired to the only Roamio with power. BTW, one reason for the lower price might be the remote. Just a standard Roamio C0270. No dongle. And very poor packing. But the unit appears new, including the plastic film. Mfg date of 13 December 2018.

Reason for purchase. One Roamio has a faulty Ethernet port. It can't receive files at full (93Mbps) speed. Wireless is only 60Mbps or less. Watching recordings it makes still works. Sending files still works. Rollback still works.


----------



## Davelnlr_

HerronScott said:


> Seems odd that some people are having no problems downgrading while others are having issues. I couldn't see getting a replacement as I don't see this as possibly being any kind of hardware issue.
> 
> Scott


I'm not getting a replacement for that reason, I am getting a THIRD replacement because the first one was stuck with a S308 error, the SECOND loaded Hydra, but even though all tuners show good signal to noise, and 99 or 100% signal strength, the unit fails to pair to a cablecard (three different ones tried, and all of them paired up on a Tivo Premier). Bolt Vox+ units have some serious issues. If this THIRD replacement doesnt work, Im going to go buy a hard drive and try to repair my original non-Vox Bolt+ before sending all of them back and asking for a Roamio Pro if they still have any.


----------



## krusir

I got my TiVo Bolt VOX replacement. It is new, not refub. However, it still won't downgrade. It is the same, "No ops" after punch "2x ThumbDown; 2x RWD". 

I think I am going to contact TiVo and ask them to open a software bug for this issue.


----------



## schatham

krusir said:


> I got my TiVo Bolt VOX replacement. It is new, not refub. However, it still won't downgrade. It is the same, "No ops" after punch "2x ThumbDown; 2x RWD".
> 
> I think I am going to contact TiVo and ask them to open a software bug for this issue.


 I would suggest keep trying, give it at least 10 tries.


----------



## JoeKustra

krusir said:


> I got my TiVo Bolt VOX replacement. It is new, not refub. However, it still won't downgrade. It is the same, "No ops" after punch "2x ThumbDown; 2x RWD".
> I think I am going to contact TiVo and ask them to open a software bug for this issue.


My first attempt failed. I performed a restart then waited 30 minutes for it to finish the service connection. When I tried again, I don't think I even hit OK/S before it started the rollback. I was pleased to see the "Get New Experience" app show up also. And like was posted, give it a few tries. Don't give up until tomorrow.


----------



## Mikeguy

JoeKustra said:


> My first attempt failed. I performed a restart then waited 30 minutes for it to finish the service connection. When I tried again, I don't think I even hit OK/S before it started the rollback. I was pleased to see the "Get New Experience" app show up also. And like was posted, give it a few tries. *Don't give up until tomorrow.*


Such a motto.


----------



## cherb

After lots of testing on a new Bolt, here is what I found when trying to downgrade:

You CANNOT downgrade the Bolt if it is not activated. I contacted customer support who informed me of this after many failures. With an unactivated Bolt, I would repeatedly get the No-Op behavior after following the procedure and never get the prompt to downgrade.
Once activated, the procedure to downgrade properly pulled up the downgrade screen after Thumbs Down x 2 and Rew x 2. OK/Select was not required.
During downgrade, the Bolt reboots and would boot back into TE4. No matter how many times I restarted or network connected, it will still boot back into TE4. Additional attempts to downgrade would result in the same behavior.
After downgrade and Bolt booting back into TE4, you must Clear and Delete (Repeat Guided Setup may also work - I didn't test)
On reboot, after Clear and Delete, the Bolt will enter TE3 Guided Setup.
You MUST complete TE3 Guided Setup in order to complete the downgrade. I tried putting in a new drive without completing Guided Setup and the Bolt reverted to TE4.


----------



## JoeKustra

cherb said:


> OK/Select was not required.


I noticed that on my last downgrade. I thought I hit it by accident.


----------



## curiousgeorge

Just did a Roamio OTA 1tb downgrade. That new interface is a HORROR. What are they THINKING?


----------



## JoeKustra

I'm amazed. I thought everyone loved it.


----------



## krusir

For those confirmed worked to get to downgrade, can you confirm you have TiVo Bolt VOX?

Somehow I am still always No-op. I will keep try. My TiVo is activated.


----------



## dogsluvtrux

What options are there if the reset does not remove the Hydra interface? I hate it - so much so - that I'm thinking of removing Tivo from my TV.

I"ve had Tivo for proabably 20 years - their strongest draw - easy, simple, clear interface. Hyrda destroyed all that.

Anything that could make me consider dumping Tivo is truly horrid.


----------



## JoeKustra

dogsluvtrux said:


> What options are there if the reset does not remove the Hydra interface? I hate it - so much so - that I'm thinking of removing Tivo from my TV.


Try changing the remote to IR (TiVo + "C" until it blinks red). Try several times. It's been noted that OK/S is no longer needed. Be sure it has made good service connections, has a guide and everything seems to work.

There wouldn't be 450 posts in this thread if it was perfect.


----------



## dogsluvtrux

3rd time was a charm - back to the old interface - phew. Now I can keep Tivo. Thanks for the info!


----------



## bleech2

I just spent the morning going though this ordeal with my new refurbished Roamio OTA. It took me three attempts also before the downgrade worked. Will I have to go through this again when I replace the hard drive?


----------



## JoeKustra

bleech2 said:


> I just spent the morning going though this ordeal with my new refurbished Roamio OTA. It took me three attempts also before the downgrade worked. Will I have to go through this again when I replace the hard drive?


When I did a rollback, then changed the drive, the rollback stuck. So, probably not.


----------



## omelet1978

So I’m a bit confused after reading this thread. If you get a Tivo Bolt+ Vox with Hydra, can you roll it back to Tivo Experience 3?


----------



## Mikeguy

omelet1978 said:


> So I'm a bit confused after reading this thread. If you get a Tivo Bolt+ Vox with Hydra, can you roll it back to Tivo Experience 3?


Yes, absent something freaky/abnormal going on. And then I'd have TiVo replace the box.


----------



## omelet1978

Mikeguy said:


> Yes, absent something freaky/abnormal going on. And then I'd have TiVo replace the box.


Why would you have Tivo replace the box? I would not want to do that. I am thinking of buying a 3TB VOX, 6tuner Bolt+ VOX and downgrading it to Tivo Experience 3


----------



## Toni

omelet1978 said:


> Why would you have Tivo replace the box? I would not want to do that. I am thinking of buying a 3TB VOX, 6tuner Bolt+ VOX and downgrading it to Tivo Experience 3


He's saying it should downgrade unless something in wrong, in which case he would have TiVo replace the box.


----------



## Outback Paul

So I've been using TE4 for 3 months and just can't deal with it any more. I have the first Gen Bolt and am going to downgrade to TE3.

Concerning the recordings... can't I just connect an external drive to transfer the recordings?


----------



## HerronScott

Outback Paul said:


> So I've been using TE4 for 3 months and just can't deal with it any more. I have the first Gen Bolt and am going to downgrade to TE3.
> 
> Concerning the recordings... can't I just connect an external drive to transfer the recordings?


No, you can't. External drives (the very few that work which have not been made in quite some time) get married to the internal drive and shows distributed across both drives after that with no ability to copy shows between drives.

If your shows are not copy-protected by your cable company, you can download them to your PC and then upload them back after downgrading.

Scott


----------



## Outback Paul

I just have OTA. How do I download them to my PC? Via TiVo online? or one of the two software programs that have been mentioned?


----------



## HerronScott

Outback Paul said:


> I just have OTA. How do I download them to my PC? Via TiVo online? or one of the two software programs that have been mentioned?


You'll need to install one of the programs such as pyTivo Desktop, pyTivo or even TiVo Desktop which will also allow you to upload later as well.

Scott


----------



## JoeKustra

Outback Paul said:


> I just have OTA. How do I download them to my PC? Via TiVo online? or one of the two software programs that have been mentioned?


Very good choice: Easier to use pyTivo


----------



## Outback Paul

HerronScott said:


> You'll need to install one of the programs such as pyTivo Desktop, pyTivo or even TiVo Desktop which will also allow you to upload later as well.
> 
> Scott


Thank you! That was the only thing holding me up was the recordings.


----------



## Outback Paul

JoeKustra said:


> Very good choice: Easier to use pyTivo


Thank you!


----------



## Outback Paul

Sucessfully downgraded my Bolt on the first try. I put my remote in IR mode before I tried. It took about 30 minutes. I'm so happy!


----------



## kflinch

I'm really disappointed that Streambaby doesn't work with Hydra. The new GUI is a lot of fluff, with no new added functionality. I miss the loss of the left arrow function. It is intuitive, the back button is not. The banner of giant icons that displays when I hit the TIVO button on the remote doesn't function as I expect and really adds nothing to the experience. But what I miss most is the loss of Streambaby. Plex isn't an option for me. Plex doesn't handle large numbers of files well (almost 7000), especially TV episodes. It looks like big, confusing mess.


----------



## krkaufman

Outback Paul said:


> So I've been using TE4 for 3 months and just can't deal with it any more. I have the first Gen Bolt and am going to downgrade to TE3.





Outback Paul said:


> Sucessfully downgraded my Bolt on the first try. I put my remote in IR mode before I tried. It took about 30 minutes. I'm so happy!


Oof. I hope v5 wouldn't have addressed the TE4 drawbacks that compelled the rollback.


----------



## GCS2000

Anyone know how I can downgrade a mini V1 from Hydra to the old UI if I have moved it off the system that had Hydra and is now on a system under the old UI - is this possible?

I have tried the steps in the first post and when I gets done with set up and asks what TIVO to connect to it will not connect to Roamio we have which is on the old UI.


----------



## JoeKustra

GCS2000 said:


> Anyone know how I can downgrade a mini V1 from Hydra to the old UI if I have moved it off the system that had Hydra and is now on a system under the old UI - is this possible?
> I have tried the steps in the first post and when I gets done with set up and asks what TIVO to connect to it will not connect to Roamio we have which is on the old UI.


With your permission, a Mini will change to the software used by the host you select. There is no explicit procedure except to select the host. Try a restart.


----------



## GCS2000

Thanks. I have restarted the mini several times and the main Roamio several times. Still won't let me connect to the Roamio (old UI)


----------



## JoeKustra

GCS2000 said:


> Thanks. I have restarted the mini several times and the main Roamio several times. Still won't let me connect to the Roamio (old UI)


Is it possible there are two different systems? I think the reason the Mini won't connect could be that it's not authorized. Sadly, a call to TiVo may be needed.


----------



## GCS2000

JoeKustra said:


> Is it possible there are two different systems? I think the reason the Mini won't connect could be that it's not authorized. Sadly, a call to TiVo may be needed.


This mini has been moved from my home account (on Hyrda Bolt) to my work account (non Hydra Roamio) by Tivo. Don't know if tech can help but I guess that is my next step. It sees the Roamio here at the office but it won't connect to it.


----------



## dmk1974

Tried Hydra for 3 days and had enough. Rolled my Roamio and my 6 Mini's back tonight. Tried to adapt to the Grid Guide and some differnet button settings on the remote, but the main deal-breaker was the constant lost connection to host messages from 4 of the 6 Mini's during use. NEVER had that happen with the same hardware over the past couple years.

Lost a few old recordings from premium channels during the roll back, but not the end of the world. Had an extra unused Roamio that I temporarily transferred my other shows to as well as my OnePass settings as well. Aside from losing a few hours of my life on Hydra, all is back in business and working perfectly on TE3!


----------



## mdavej

dmk1974 said:


> Tried Hydra for 3 days and had enough.


In spite of being a huge Hydra fan, I did try to warn you:
Hydra with Romiao Pro and V1 minis


> ... for someone who uses live guide 99% of the time, there is no possible way you'll ever adapt to or like TE4


----------



## dmk1974

mdavej said:


> In spite of being a huge Hydra fan, I did try to warn you:
> Hydra with Romiao Pro and V1 minis


You did. It was against my better judgement as well 

Was definitely going to just deal with that Grid Guide. But the host disconnects were awful! Thankful there was a way to roll back.


----------



## Macomar

I wonder if the following TE3->TE4->TE3 test and rollback on my one and only Tivo (Roamio Basic) would work to preserve and restore my current TE3 setup? Many of my recordings are copy-protected, so I can't save them with PyTivo.

1. Remove existing hard drive used with TE3.
2. Install new hard drive and upgrade to TE4.
3. Test TE4.
4. Rollback to TE3 by installing the original hard drive.


----------



## ggieseke

Macomar said:


> I wonder if the following TE3->TE4->TE3 test and rollback on my one and only Tivo (Roamio Basic) would work to preserve and restore my current TE3 setup? Many of my recordings are copy-protected, so I can't save them with PyTivo.
> 
> 1. Remove existing hard drive used with TE3.
> 2. Install new hard drive and upgrade to TE4.
> 3. Test TE4.
> 4. Rollback to TE3 by installing the original hard drive.


The OS is on the motherboard, not the drive. With a Roamio you _might_ be able to pull it off by rolling it back to TE3 on the new drive in step 4, then putting the old drive back in as step 5.

On Bolts the database partition is also on the motherboard, so it wouldn't work no matter what you do.


----------



## Macomar

ggieseke said:


> The OS is on the motherboard, not the drive. With a Roamio you _might_ be able to pull it off by rolling it back to TE3 on the new drive in step 4, then putting the old drive back in as step 5.
> 
> On Bolts the database partition is also on the motherboard, so it wouldn't work no matter what you do.


Thanks ggieseke! Anyone out there with a spare Roamio willing to try the experiment?


----------



## Tim McAuley

Downgrading now. After buying a new mini and mistakenly upgrading because I thought I had to, we were extremely upset with the 'improved' interface. Very slooooowwww, very fugly, not user friendly, just 'un' everything. What happened to simply 'play' or 'delete'? Everything seemed to have added steps. My OnePass system was so screwed up we just stopped using it. One show, we never had trouble with, suddenly decided to bookmark every season, (17!) that we did not ask for. Then it started skipping recordings! Finally gave up on it and watched through XBox1.
Told the family not to record anything new, and watch as much as possible, because this POS interface was going. And if they ever make it mandatory, I'm done with Tivo.

PS angry yes, but I love Tivo. So much so that when our cable company offered it, I bought my on Roamio Pro. I was great until now...


----------



## marcv

Tim McAuley said:


> Downgrading now. After buying a new mini and mistakenly upgrading because I thought I had to, we were extremely upset with the 'improved' interface. Very slooooowwww, very fugly, not user friendly, just 'un' everything. What happened to simply 'play' or 'delete'? Everything seemed to have added steps. My OnePass system was so screwed up we just stopped using it. One show, we never had trouble with, suddenly decided to bookmark every season, (17!) that we did not ask for. Then it started skipping recordings! Finally gave up on it and watched through XBox1.
> Told the family not to record anything new, and watch as much as possible, because this POS interface was going. And if they ever make it mandatory, I'm done with Tivo.
> 
> PS angry yes, but I love Tivo. So much so that when our cable company offered it, I bought my on Roamio Pro. I was great until now...


Sadly, I feel the same way as you


----------



## defjab

I don't understand why some previously uploaded recordings (sent from my video archives to the tivo via pyTivo) played fine, and others got stuck. I also couldn't delete the files that refused to play. The ability to transfer recordings ONTO the tivo is a huge need for me. THis worked on TE3 and so I'll be going back once I figure out how to backup everything (I can't get kmttg to download the one pass details)


----------



## mattyro7878

I have shows chosen as "recordings only" showing entire seasons in my one pass as well. Marvel's Agents of Shield just can't seem to play nice. I have it set for new episodes and recordings only but I get all seasons listed in my one pass.


----------



## schatham

New Bolt Vox downgrading now. I took the battery out of the Vox and used another remote in ir mode. 

I liked the voice, but not enough to use Hydra.


----------



## krkaufman

schatham said:


> New Bolt Vox downgrading now. I took the battery out of the Vox and used another remote in ir mode.
> 
> I liked the voice, but not enough to use Hydra.


Was the stock VOX Remote hindering the rollback, or were you just taking a precaution? (The VOX Remote is also capable of IR mode.)


----------



## schatham

Just a precaution.


----------



## krkaufman

A cautionary tale, as a reminder to learn/know the official remote control button names...

Unable to rollback BOLT VOX


----------



## TomRaz

Okay I feel like I woke up and its groundhog day over and over and over etc.
I had a Bolt + 3TB unit since July 2017 and loved it
Then last week the hard drive went out
I contacted Tivo and they offered to send me out a replacement unit at no cost, which I thought was really nice
Well it arrived on Wednesday 8/7/19 and I was really surprised to see it was a Bolt + VOX with a 3TB drive, and it was manufactured on 8/5/19 which means its brand new
Okay at this point I am excited, I move the M series cable card over and plug in everything and it boots up
OMG what is this new freaking software ????
Well know I realize its TE4 which I have no interest in running, its slow, buggy and the search function is lets say horrible
So I have ensured my Tivo Bolt + remove is in IR mode, I have tried the steps to repeat guided setup, down arrow twice, rewind twice and then select/ok and nothing is happening
Unless I can get this new unit to downgrade, I am considering replacing the bad disk in my original unit and sending this new one back
Any suggestions would be appreciated


----------



## humbb

TomRaz said:


> So I have ensured my Tivo Bolt + remove is in IR mode, I have tried the steps to repeat guided setup, down arrow twice, rewind twice and then select/ok and nothing is happening


Just to be clear, it's not "down arrow", but "thumbs down" as illustrated here:
Rollback Bolt VOX Hydra to Classic


----------



## TomRaz

humbb said:


> Just to be clear, it's not "down arrow", but "thumbs down" as illustrated here:
> Rollback Bolt VOX Hydra to Classic


Thanks, yes I know its the thumbs down, I just typed the wrong text, it was in the middle of the night and I could not sleep
I did the correct keys, but still no option to downgrade to the classic interface. 
Is it possible the TE4 software no longer has this downgrade option ?


----------



## JoeKustra

TomRaz said:


> Is it possible the TE4 software no longer has this downgrade option ?


So far, TiVo has only done that to the Bolt OTA: Bolt OTA will not convert to HD menus


----------



## ADG

One mistake I was making the other day was pressing the "replay" button rather than the "rewind" button. And with Bolt you don't need to press Select (or OK). It's: thumbs down, thumbs down, left arrow, left arrow


----------



## bob61

TomRaz said:


> Okay I feel like I woke up and its groundhog day over and over and over etc.
> I had a Bolt + 3TB unit since July 2017 and loved it
> Then last week the hard drive went out
> I contacted Tivo and they offered to send me out a replacement unit at no cost, which I thought was really nice
> Well it arrived on Wednesday 8/7/19 and I was really surprised to see it was a Bolt + VOX with a 3TB drive, and it was manufactured on 8/5/19 which means its brand new
> Okay at this point I am excited, I move the M series cable card over and plug in everything and it boots up
> OMG what is this new freaking software ????
> Well know I realize its TE4 which I have no interest in running, its slow, buggy and the search function is lets say horrible
> So I have ensured my Tivo Bolt + remove is in IR mode, I have tried the steps to repeat guided setup, down arrow twice, rewind twice and then select/ok and nothing is happening
> Unless I can get this new unit to downgrade, I am considering replacing the bad disk in my original unit and sending this new one back
> Any suggestions would be appreciated


I've just upgraded from Roamio Pro to Bolt VOX. I was extremely hesitant to use Hydra, but now after a week I'm well and fine with it. I don't find it slow or buggy. Works fine. Give it a chance. You'll really like the auto skip that Hydra has.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


----------



## schatham

It seems if rewind twice does not work try left arrow twice. Per another post that left arrow worked but rewind did not. I used rewind on my Bolt Vox and it worked.


----------



## krkaufman

schatham said:


> It seems if rewind twice does not work try left arrow twice. Per another post that left arrow worked but rewind did not. I used rewind on my Bolt Vox and it worked.


If referring to this post, the user was confused as to the correct names for the remote buttons, and so wasn't actually pressing the 'Rewind' (◁◁) button on their initial unsuccessful attempts to roll back. Once they actually used 'Rewind', erroneously referred to as "left arrow," the rollback process worked.

The Button-by-Button Guide to Your TiVo VOX Remote - TiVo Blog

edit: Of course, this document isn't without issues, even in regards to button names. Though the TiVo UI still universally refers to Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down, this post labels the buttons "Like" and "Dislike" ... which, I imagine, might be especially irritating to fans of the old TiVo Suggestions system who are now living with TE4.


----------



## ADG

schatham said:


> It seems if rewind twice does not work try left arrow twice. Per another post that left arrow worked but rewind did not. I used rewind on my Bolt Vox and it worked.


That's the mistake I was making --- Left Arrow IS Rewind.


----------



## krkaufman

ADG said:


> One mistake I was making the other day was pressing the "replay" button rather than the "rewind" button. And with Bolt you don't need to press Select (or OK). It's: thumbs down, thumbs down, left arrow, left arrow





ADG said:


> That's the mistake I was making --- Left Arrow IS Rewind.


No, it's not.

As the TiVo blog document and yesterday's posts* detailed, the 'Left Arrow' button is NOT 'Rewind'; that is the name for an entirely different button on the remote.

The OP of this thread states the correct button sequence for rollback, provided people aren't picking and choosing their own names for all the remote buttons.

*:


krkaufman said:


> Fast Forward (▷▷)
> Rewind (◁◁)
> Replay (⟲)
> Advance (→|)
> 
> Arrows surrounding OK/Select are the Left, Right, Up & Down navigation arrows.
> 
> It's not really a "different strokes" thing since TiVo has included a detailed remote button mapping/glossary in every user guide.


----------



## mdavej

Nice writeup about Tivo remote button names and functions:
https://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/accessibility/Remote_Control_Guide.pdf


----------



## aaronwt

bob61 said:


> I've just upgraded from Roamio Pro to Bolt VOX. I was extremely hesitant to use Hydra, but now after a week I'm well and fine with it. I don't find it slow or buggy. Works fine. Give it a chance. You'll really like the auto skip that Hydra has.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Yes> all my TiVos run Hydra. And none of them are slow or buggy. They all have been working great with Hydra. I can't even stand the HDUI anymore when I visit my GFs house on her TiVos. The voice search alone on Hydra has been an excellent feature. It's worked very well in my use.


----------



## Joe3

aaronwt said:


> Yes> all my TiVos run Hydra. And none of them are slow or buggy. They all have been working great with Hydra. I can't even stand the HDUI anymore when I visit my GFs house on her TiVos. The voice search alone on Hydra has been an excellent feature. It's worked very well in my use.


If I wanted to talk to inanimate objects I could always strike up a conversation at work.


----------



## krkaufman

Joe3 said:


> If I wanted to talk to animate objects I could always strike up a conversation at work.


_So_ close to correctly delivering the line. Comedy is hard.


----------



## bobfrank

TomRaz said:


> Thanks, yes I know its the thumbs down, I just typed the wrong text, it was in the middle of the night and I could not sleep
> I did the correct keys, but still no option to downgrade to the classic interface.
> Is it possible the TE4 software no longer has this downgrade option ?


Just in case it wasn't another typo, as I remember (could be wrong) it's thumbs down 3 times, not 2.


----------



## ADG

krkaufman said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> As the TiVo blog document and yesterday's posts* detailed, the 'Left Arrow' button is NOT 'Rewind'; that is the name for an entirely different button on the remote.
> 
> The OP of this thread states the correct button sequence for rollback, provided people aren't picking and choosing their own names for all the remote buttons.
> 
> *:


Yeah, sorry - trying to do too many things at once. When I said LEFT I meant the left rocker surrounding the Pause switch.


----------



## chickc

Grateful for these instructions & discussion. Have rolled back all our Bolts, hubby can't stand small font and info-overload of new guide - it's a readability issue. We get everything we need with TiVo Live Guide style. They should offer a similar style guide format with the Bolt.


----------



## schatham

Downgrading again, this last time I gave hydra 3 weeks. Reason, no live guide, poor interface and ease of use.

The same instructions worked first time, cable Bolt Vox.

Update: All went well with one glitch. My new one passes were not showing as going to be recorded. I had to cancel them and do it again.


----------



## Brillian1080p

I was enjoying the Bolt until suggestions went crazy when thumbs were removed. I've read how to downgrade a few times and I'm transferring the recordings I'd like to keep to my PC using KMTTG. I've used Videoredo to quickstream fix and remove commercials. Can these recordings, which still have .ts file extension be transferred back to the bolt after downgrading to TE3?


----------



## Brillian1080p

I have a Bolt Vox from June 2018 that I want to downgrade to TE3. I haven't been able to get the downgrade option to come up. The reset option comes up when pressing the button combo. I've read through this thread and others a few times. I don't see the reason explained why the remote should be used in IR mode. I did switch it to IR mode and still can't get the option to come up. I've cleared and deleted everything, restarted, reset to defaults and no joy. I can't seem to find the remote for my older Tivo HD series 3.


----------



## MargeD55

schatham said:


> I would suggest keep trying, give it at least 10 tries.


 I'll keep trying for now. I've lost count of how many tries. I might even go ack to using my Roamio instead. I absolutely HATE Bolt TE4.


----------



## schatham

MargeD55 said:


> I'll keep trying for now. I've lost count of how many tries. I might even go ack to using my Roamio instead. I absolutely HATE Bolt TE4.


Did you see the part where someone used left arrow twice instead of rewind twice. Maybe try that.

Another thing worth trying is to take the batteries out of the voice remote and use your Romeo remote on ir to downgrade.


----------



## MargeD55

schatham said:


> Did you see the part where someone used left arrow twice instead of rewind twice. Maybe try that.
> 
> Another thing worth trying is to take the batteries out of the voice remote and use your Romeo remote on ir to downgrade.


Yeah, I did all that. Still nothing. Thanks


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

Brillian1080p said:


> I have a Bolt Vox from June 2018 that I want to downgrade to TE3. I haven't been able to get the downgrade option to come up. The reset option comes up when pressing the button combo. I've read through this thread and others a few times. I don't see the reason explained why the remote should be used in IR mode. I did switch it to IR mode and still can't get the option to come up. I've cleared and deleted everything, restarted, reset to defaults and no joy. I can't seem to find the remote for my older Tivo HD series 3.


I bought a Bolt I ended up returning but couldn't downgrade it until-I connected it via Ethernet, it would not work via MoCA.


----------



## mattyro7878

I have been reading this thread for the past hour. I can't seem to grasp the "horror" of Hydra. It takes a minute to learn and I miss the live guide but what if like most consumer electronics you had no option? You know the day will come when Tivo announces "to continue to do this or that, you must have Hydra". I guess I am accepting the future rather than fighting it. Yes, I prefer TE3.


----------



## JoeKustra

When Hydra was released, some people lost a feature they liked. They became very vocal. From that small start the anger and frustration grew. I've found many members are the controlling type. This thread (see post 2) shows the differences between TE3 and TE4. I use both.

See: TE3 vs TE4 - why do you like/dislike one vs the other?


----------



## Joe3

mattyro7878 said:


> I have been reading this thread for the past hour. I can't seem to grasp the "horror" of Hydra. It takes a minute to learn and I miss the live guide but what if like most consumer electronics you had no option? You know the day will come when Tivo announces "to continue to do this or that, you must have Hydra". I guess I am accepting the future rather than fighting it. Yes, I prefer TE3.


TE4 is none starter, period. The person behind it should be fired or sued for the equivalent of software engineering malpractice. The guide, allowing simple back and forth network PC transfers, the future is better than TE4. Retire the TE4, bury it in the past were it belongs. Put it on the dusty self with Microsoft Vista. Come out with a new TE5 that returns the best and adds the rest.


----------



## Brillian1080p

I have some feedback after a successful downgrade. I was using the backdoor code on the first screen that comes up when choosing "Reset to Defaults" and it would not offer to downgrade. I called Tivo customer service and they walked me through. I wasn't pressing select at the 'Restore to Defaults to get to the next screen, thinking it would start the process without downgrading. It's possible that last screen is shown in the picture, but I was using an ipad to follow the directions and the picture was just too small to see clearly. I was following the written instructions. Hope this makes sense and helps.


----------



## mattyro7878

I just rolled back. 20 minutes in and I honestly don't know why I did. My one passes have not taken effect. I don't know...have I acclimated to Hydra?


----------



## Lurker1

mattyro7878 said:


> I just rolled back. 20 minutes in and I honestly don't know why I did. My one passes have not taken effect. I don't know...have I acclimated to Hydra?


At least you have escaped the clunky pre-roll ads now.


----------



## RoamioJeff

mattyro7878 said:


> ...have I acclimated to Hydra?


Resistance is NOT futile!


----------



## mattyro7878

Hopefully the one passes will come around. My Amazon password is not working. I'm sure I will be pleased after a day or two. Don't even have channel icons yet.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Assuming you re-added the onepasses, it can take a couple hours for them to re-schedule. The box needs to re-index everything from scratch.


----------



## JoeKustra

If you check System Information it will show when the next service connection is scheduled. That will usually be within 30 minutes from the restart. After that, give it five minutes to get the 1P fed to the TDL.


----------



## krkaufman

schatham said:


> Did you see the part where someone used left arrow twice instead of rewind twice. Maybe try that.


That person was confused as to the remote button names. When they got it to work they said that they had used the left arrow ... but had actually pressed the Rewind button. Earlier, they had been pressing the Replay button (8-sec back) rather than the Rewind button.

Every version of the TiVo Viewer's Guide includes a remote graphic detailing the button names.


----------



## schatham

Joe3 said:


> . Come out with a new TE5 that returns the best and adds the rest.


You got the "ads" part right.


----------



## mattyro7878

Here is my 24 ht review. Hydra is not the horrible experience done say it is. TE3 is not the answer to all questions. The progress bar is better in Hydra. 8 button pushes to the TO DO list in TE3. 5 . By the way...I only have guide data for 48 hours for most channels. A few are out to Oct 2nd or 3rd. Will it take a few connections?


----------



## ggieseke

<TiVo><2> takes you to the To Do List in TE3. There are a bunch of other shortcuts that still work on TE3 in this thread, although some don't work anymore like <TiVo><1> to play the startup video.
New Almost Complete TiVo Codes List


----------



## hopefulboydy

Hi, sorry if the answer to this is somewhere in this very long thread but I couldnt easily find it. I have a Roamio OTA that is running the Hydra interface. I want to roll back to the classic HD interface. I tried the thumbs down x 2, rewind x 2 followed by Select but without success. I did this with the original IR remote. The problem I get is that after you press the rewind button, it goes back to the previous menu screen before you even get a chance to press select. Anyone have this issue and were able to still get rolled back?


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## schatham

Make sure your pressing RW not left arrow.


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## hopefulboydy

Yes, RW, the button to the left of PAUSE


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## HerronScott

mattyro7878 said:


> Hopefully the one passes will come around. My Amazon password is not working. I'm sure I will be pleased after a day or two. Don't even have channel icons yet.


Check your email as Amazon will send you a mail.

Scott


----------



## tpm

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With the 21.9.6 v5 it resolves most, almost all issues. A little lag and pausing a live show, switching tuners and than going back the pause isn't there any longer. It goes to real time. So if you pause a show 5 minutes into it, switch tuners and go back it will be at real time. You lose your place


----------



## tpm

TiVo_Ted said:


> Yes, this is the downgrade process I had asked a couple of people to try before posting. I guess the testing is done! I really really really hope people understand that by doing this you will lose everything on your box - recordings, OnePasses, preferences. Everything! For those of you that still choose to roll back, I sincerely hope we'll get you back. We are listening to your feedback and working on how to bring back some of the functionality you feel is missing in gen4.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I decide down the road to downgrade would I need to disconnect the external hard drive on my Roamio?


----------



## holysin

tpm said:


> If I decide down the road to downgrade would I need to disconnect the external hard drive on my Roamio?


Honestly, you need to keep the hard drive connected as if you roll back without the hard drive connected you will be unable to read anything stored on the hard drive and have to reformat it in TiVo anyways...

I quite liked the upgraded software even on my old Romeo OTA but now that TiVo is pushing advertisements for the streaming side of things in the guide (and apparently prerolled ads are coming next) I will be rolling to the classic TiVo format after I pull my recordings off the roamio.


----------



## tpm

holysin said:


> Honestly, you need to keep the hard drive connected as if you roll back without the hard drive connected you will be unable to read anything stored on the hard drive and have to reformat it in TiVo anyways...
> 
> I quite liked the upgraded software even on my old Romeo OTA but now that TiVo is pushing advertisements for the streaming side of things in the guide (and apparently prerolled ads are coming next) I will be rolling to the classic TiVo format after I pull my recordings off the roamio.


 Thanks!
I had already found the answer that all recordings would be wiped out, along with season passes. I was told once the advertising starts you could call to opt out. Hopefully that is true. I paid for lifetime purchase so they shouldn't be allowed to change the rules


----------



## mattyro7878

Is there a reason we can't plug a thumb drive into a Bolt and xfer recordings to it? Are they afraid we are going to start pirating stuff? Selling DVDs on the street in the Bronx?


----------



## JoeKustra

mattyro7878 said:


> Is there a reason we can't plug a thumb drive into a Bolt and xfer recordings to it? Are they afraid we are going to start pirating stuff? Selling DVDs on the street in the Bronx?


Needs software support. Good luck.


----------



## Mikeguy

mattyro7878 said:


> Is there a reason we can't plug a thumb drive into a Bolt and xfer recordings to it? Are they afraid we are going to start pirating stuff? Selling DVDs on the street in the Bronx?


My original TiVo box, a Toshiba Series 2 TiVo box, indeed has a DVD recorder/player built into it, and I can burn a TiVo show onto a DVD (I'm OTA and have no copy-protection issues) which will play universally. Thumb-drive capability would be nice--my guess is, TiVo didn't see a great consumer need (plus the cost) for that as thumb drives became more prevalent, perhaps influenced by its majority cableco base. And then, at no further hardware cost, TiVo boxes had the capability to transfer non-copy-protected shows to a PC.


----------



## holysin

tpm said:


> Thanks!
> I had already found the answer that all recordings would be wiped out, along with season passes. I was told once the advertising starts you could call to opt out. Hopefully that is true. I paid for lifetime purchase so they shouldn't be allowed to change the rules


You would think that you could opt out, but their fall back can be that lifetime service covers the tivo guide service which is still available if a bit changed, it just now(soon) will come with pre-rolled ads before your videos. For me even that was fine (as you can skip them) but seeing the advertisement taking up space IN THE GUIDE was my final straw. I'm now back on a pre-hydra box and am happy (I can even thumbs up or down shows!) But once 4k OTA is properly in place in a few years I'll find another non tivo DVR option (presumably something that plays with Plex since I now love plex after tivo forced me there to play my shared videos when I early adopted Hydra, funny how that worked out.) After nearly 20 years of tivo-ing (Phillips 30hr HDR was my first tivo back in 99/00), advertisements (try fubo!) within the guide was enough to completely lose me as a fan


----------



## Narkul

Wish there was a way to roll back Rovi to Tivo.


----------



## No1hedberg

mattyro7878 said:


> I have been reading this thread for the past hour. I can't seem to grasp the "horror" of Hydra. It takes a minute to learn and I miss the live guide but what if like most consumer electronics you had no option? You know the day will come when Tivo announces "to continue to do this or that, you must have Hydra". I guess I am accepting the future rather than fighting it. Yes, I prefer TE3.


I don't know why programmers, nearly all of them millennials, can't understand that new isn't always better. Probably stems from the fact that they've never lived in a world that doesn't revolve around them.

TiVo has always been a premium product/ service for a premium price. If I wanted ads, and trash streaming in my program guide I could simply use the free junk box my cable company pushes on customers. I pay up for better equipment and service so I don't have to look at that sh!t. I have kids in my house, and I don't need streaming garbage in my program guide that I don't want them seeing, that I can't block or remove. Whether TiVo or the government thinks it's inappropriate is irrelevant. I make the decisions in this house.

Selling out and offshoring customer service while still charging premium prices, and crowbaring ads, even TiVo+ ads is not ok. Companies continue treating customers with actuarial tables, determining how much garbage they will tolerate before they cancel. They could fix a lot of this by separating hydra from this ad garbage, but they won't because they know there won't be enough of us cancel to offset the ad revenue they are generating. Like it or not consumers have been knuckling under to this garbage for years now and that isn't going to change any time soon. The TiVo we have patronized for years is gone. We probably need to just move on, because it's not coming back. The mentality these days is to hell with your customers, sell your soul to Wall Street investors.

TiVo CEO Raghu Rau: "because the interest of the Board and the management is to ensure that we get the best outcome for the shareholders". No mention of customers whatsoever.


----------



## Rey

holysin said:


> Honestly, you need to keep the hard drive connected as if you roll back without the hard drive connected you will be unable to read anything stored on the hard drive and have to reformat it in TiVo anyways...
> 
> I quite liked the upgraded software even on my old Romeo OTA but now that TiVo is pushing advertisements for the streaming side of things in the guide (and apparently prerolled ads are coming next) I will be rolling to the classic TiVo format after I pull my recordings off the roamio.


Now that I am sick of looking at the trash forced in the Tivo guide I am sure I'm rolling back until I figure out whether I am replacing tivo with something like channels dvr app. Currently testing it with TVE where I get most channels having Xfinity. I am also waiting to receive a HD Homerun quatro. While there would be some things I'd miss from Tivo, so far I really like the experience with channels dvr.

My hesitation right now to roll back is all the recordings I have. Guess I better start watching them or screw it.


----------



## SugarBowl

i gave hydra another try. After 2 months i'm rolling back. Too many 'lost connection' errors from my mini while watching a show. I use MOCA which is very stable on the old tivo interface.


----------



## Rey

Well after a year I rolled back and said screw it to my recordings. Really a much better experience and no more junk in my guide. Only thing I don't understand is why some of my 1080i locals are now 720p. Settings are correct but when pressing info it now says 720p. Reason why I looked at this is because I noticed these channels were as soft as the rest. Doesn't make any sense that rolling back would have anything to do with this.


----------



## kb7oeb

Rey said:


> Well after a year I rolled back and said screw it to my recordings. Really a much better experience and no more junk in my guide. Only thing I don't understand is why some of my 1080i locals are now 720p. Settings are correct but when pressing info it now says 720p. Reason why I looked at this is because I noticed these channels were as soft as the rest. Doesn't make any sense that rolling back would have anything to do with this.


Just a guess but on my older tivos it shows the resolution of the prior channel, if you close and reopen info it would update.


----------



## Rey

kb7oeb said:


> Just a guess but on my older tivos it shows the resolution of the prior channel, if you close and reopen info it would update.


It seems to me that it's just a coincidence and that xfinity just started messing with my locals. All the local stations that were 1080i are now 720p and look really compressed. I think this year I may experiment with other options. Between data caps and this it's frustrating. Monthly costs will obviously play a roll in this decision.


----------



## OneCrazyDJ

Trying to downgrade from Hydra on my Tivo Roamio Pro and the button sequence 2 thumbs down, click rewind twice, then click the select button isn't working. am I doing something wrong here? Please help.


----------



## kpeters59

There's been reports around here that some TiVo's just wouldn't sidegrade.

Most of them were replaced by TiVo on request.

-KP


----------



## OneCrazyDJ

Was on the phone with TiVo customer support for over an hour troubleshooting and resetting everything but to no avail. Agent told me that they would replace it for free.


----------



## kpeters59

You know you can back-up most of your settings with KMTTG?

-KP


----------



## cherry ghost

I connected a new-in-box Bolt today that I’ve had for about two years. I was prepared to downgrade but it’s running TE3. Any chance it’ll auto upgrade to TE4 in the coming days?


----------



## JoeKustra

cherry ghost said:


> I connected a new-in-box Bolt today that I've had for about two years. I was prepared to downgrade but it's running TE3. Any chance it'll auto upgrade to TE4 in the coming days?


If it has the app to "Get New Experience" I don't think it will unless you tell it to. And even if you ask, there are two more "are you sure" prompts.


----------



## Chuck_IV

How long does it take for the channel logos to come back on TE3? On TE4 it was pretty quick but it’s been about 8 or 9 hrs now and still not logos.


----------



## foghorn2

Chuck_IV said:


> How long does it take for the channel logos to come back on TE3? On TE4 it was pretty quick but it's been about 8 or 9 hrs now and still not logos.


mine took about 12 hrs


----------



## Chuck_IV

foghorn2 said:


> mine took about 12 hrs


Took overnight but they finally showed up.

It's actually kinda nice being back on TE3. It's so snappy on the Bolt.

Plus it gets rid of one of the most annoying bugs for those of us who bounce between tuners...

When recording a show or just after recording a show, when you leave to go to another tuner, the original one is paused. So when you go back you aren't on live tv. A reboot is needed to fix it.

Some might consider it a good feature but when you hit a show that has been paused for 30 minutes and wonder why it is so off time wise, it gets to you quickly.

Anyway, I am about ready to do roll back one of my two Roamios tonight or tomorrow. Just waiting on the recordings to transfer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jim1348

I have been thinking of switching back, too.


----------



## mattyro7878

Just picked up a 4 tuner Premiere. I find myself going to it rather than te4 Roamio plus. I guess that's an endorsement for te3. I may use the Roamio for long term storage and the Premiere for day to day use.


----------



## schatham

Chuck_IV said:


> How long does it take for the channel logos to come back on TE3? On TE4 it was pretty quick but it's been about 8 or 9 hrs now and still not logos.


Do a few forced connections after down grade. This will get them within the hour.


----------



## wblynch

Last week I got one of the refurb Roamio OTAs from Weaknees. I was happy to see that it was on TE3 and did the setup. But I noticed it was on an older release so I didn’t put it into service until it could catch up on patches.

The next morning I checked and it had been “upgraded” to Hydra over night. Needless to say, I initiated the rollback immediately. It took maybe and hour or less but I had to re-do the entire setup, including clearing all the unwanted stations in my channel list. But I still prefer the old interface and will stick with it as long as possible. 

I have a Tivo HD and a Premiere that no longer get updates. I’m sure Roamio’s will fall off the update cycle soon.


----------



## kpeters59

You can back up your Channels List with KMTTG.

-KP


----------



## wblynch

kpeters59 said:


> You can back up your Channels List with KMTTG.
> 
> -KP


yes but that's even more work. To get out the old computer, sit through two hours of windows updates and virus scans, then go find the software, download/install/configure and then finally back up the channel list.


----------



## kpeters59

If you say so...

-KP


----------



## Sc00bydu

macdaddy1225 said:


> Just rolled my roamio plus and 4 mini's back to original menu's. Thank god somebody posted how to do it. You would think if they made a new interface it would be easier to use than the old one. It took me one day of struggle along with a family revolt to make the decision. The only reason i did it was i got a new mini and it had the new interface on it and i figured it had to be better, but man was i wrong. That thing was really hard to use. I will never revert to that new mess unless they make me!


No kidding. That new interface is just awful. I wish I could figure out how to revert back. After a a couple of months of this new crappy interface, I'm ready to cancel TiVo and go with Channel Master....


----------



## HerronScott

Sc00bydu said:


> No kidding. That new interface is just awful. I wish I could figure out how to revert back. After a a couple of months of this new crappy interface, I'm ready to cancel TiVo and go with Channel Master....


It's posted here in this thread. Are you having issues with following the steps? What model TiVo do you have?

Scott


----------



## M Willis

After 15 months of living with Hydra on a Roamio Plus, I finally rolled it back to TE3. It had started getting buggy over the past few months. It’d only complete a successful service connection about once a month (though guide data was always updated). It also started spontaneously rebooting several times a week, usually when trying to play one of those annoying Tivo commercials before the start of a show. And it’s been well documented how slow and frustrating the new interface is on an older Roamio.

But a couple issues I came across while doing the downgrade.

1. First time I tried to do the downgrade, I got a “Tivo is connecting to the Tivo Service. Try again later” error message in the Reset settings menu. (It wasn’t). I had to reboot the Tivo to clear the error message but it allowed me to start the process after that.

2. I had to do the downgrade TWICE. The first time, it went through the dialogs, did the rollback and then started up with what I’m assuming is an older version of Hydra. However, it didn’t require a new guided setup and all my shows and info were still there. (I didn’t confirm the version of software, so it’s a guess). I then repeated the process to do the downgrade and the next time it rebooted, it was at TE3 and started at the guided setup. (I was pleased I didn’t have to re-pair my Comcast cable card). 

3. The same was true for my Tivo Mini’s. I had to go through the downgrade process twice before they reverted to TE3. (Did guided setup 3 times on the mini’s before it came back online). The only thing is that one of the Mini’s rebooted into the new interface and the picture kept flashing on/off the screen. Eventually it popped the downgrade screen back on and after the next reboot, it was back online.

I can’t say how much happier I am with the older interface. So much faster and responsive. Guide data is back and OnePasses restored. 

The only thing I miss is that TE3 doesn’t ‘talk’ with the TV as well. With Hydra, if I hit the TiVo button, it’d automatically turn on the TV or switch the input to the Roamio if I was using my Roku or a blu-ray player. Now - I have to manually switch inputs back to the Roamio. But a small price to pay and I’ll live with it.


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## Rose4uKY

We are getting a Tivo Bolt this weekend. I hope we like TE4. I don't really want to have to downgrade. I hope ours works ok and doesn't freeze up or have problems.


----------



## gl237

BadCommand said:


> So after spending an excruciating 3 days with the Hydra UI on my Roamio and 6 Mini's (and with nasty family feedback), I posted the request to rollback on the Tivo forum site. I was sent a message to contact Tivo support directly to find out how. Tivo support was very helpful and gave me the following instructions which they OK'd for forum posting.
> In summary- returning to the Good "Old" Interface has never felt like a better upgrade!
> Hope this helps and Good Luck!


Thanks so much ! I never upgraded my other Roamio's and got a last build refurb from weakknees and sure enough it was the hyrdra horror show experience. Yikes, sluggish as can be: Processor was never meant for this much of a GUI load. (a good portion of this is the refresh of the pretty background graphic of the current show highlighted as you scan channels). Then Pytivo, etc not longer work in other words O.S. is no longer extensible. Geez, I can no longer talk to Tivo with my computer and phone ? Since I did not have any recordings on it yet and thanks to your post the rollback was easy with no problems. I will have to say, glad Tivo decided to let us keep the old interface so I would not have to round file my Tivo's.


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## gabrielstern

i think the best option for me is since I have a lot of recordings is to just get a 6 tuner first generation bolt install an 8tb drive in it and reformat it using the mfsr reformator software and transfer all the recordings to the new bolt from my romio pro as i would only lose 2 or 3 copy protected programs and then upgrade the bolt to the hydra system like i did with my other bolt as it works great on the bolts then install an 8tb drive in the romio and reformat that drive using mfsr reformator software then I can wipe the 6tb drive I installed in 2015 in my romio and use it to back up all my recordings i want to get off and save from my other tivos but be able to use my romio instead of my premier as a transfering device for backing up and transfering back recordings with the pyi software utilizing the romio to transfer back recordings then i can use tivo online if I need to move recordings to the bolts if I have to until either tivo comes up with a fix for the hydra system or the developer of the pyi software comes up with a software update to allow the transfer recordings back function to work with the hydra system.


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## jlb

Rose4uKY said:


> We are getting a Tivo Bolt this weekend. I hope we like TE4. I don't really want to have to downgrade. I hope ours works ok and doesn't freeze up or have problems.


Honestly, the process for rolling back is rather easy and pain free.


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## johndoedoes

jlb said:


> Honestly, the process for rolling back is rather easy and pain free.


If I wanted to do this with my Bolt, how do i do it? And would I also need to do it with my Mini Vox?

Lastly, would it delete all my settings and cable card stuff?


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## HerronScott

johndoedoes said:


> If I wanted to do this with my Bolt, how do i do it? And would I also need to do it with my Mini Vox?
> 
> Lastly, would it delete all my settings and cable card stuff?


Read the first post in this thread (it applies to both Roamios and Bolts). The Mini should roll back when the host rolls back.

And yes, you would lose everything including recordings, settings and CableCARD pairing.

Scott


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## johndoedoes

HerronScott said:


> Read the first post in this thread (it applies to both Roamios and Bolts). The Mini should roll back when the host rolls back.
> 
> And yes, you would lose everything including recordings, settings and CableCARD pairing.
> 
> Scott


The cable card is killer. How hard is that to set up again?

The cable person did mine before. Would i have to remove it and reinstall? Or could I leave the card in and re-sync it?


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## HerronScott

johndoedoes said:


> The cable card is killer. How hard is that to set up again?
> 
> The cable person did mine before. Would i have to remove it and reinstall? Or could I leave the card in and re-sync it?


You should just have to call your cable company and get it repaired. It should not require someone to come out.

While this should just require the information from the TiVo's CableCARD pairing screen, if you have Comcast, they may want the serial number from the CableCARD too.

Scott


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## mlsnyc

HerronScott said:


> Read the first post in this thread (it applies to both Roamios and Bolts). The Mini should roll back when the host rolls back.
> 
> And yes, you would lose everything including recordings, settings and CableCARD pairing.
> 
> Scott


Probably a YMMV situation, but when I rolled back to TE3 I didn't lose my cablecard pairing. I have FiOS so maybe that's the difference? This was about 6-8 months ago.


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## tommage1

mlsnyc said:


> Probably a YMMV situation, but when I rolled back to TE3 I didn't lose my cablecard pairing. I have FiOS so maybe that's the difference? This was about 6-8 months ago.


Are you sure? With an activated cable card you will get most (probably over 90%) of the channels without it being paired. I myself only lose a handful of channels with a non paired card. However I don't subscribe to any premium channels, card will need to be paired for any premium channels and a "few" standard channels.


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## mlsnyc

tommage1 said:


> Are you sure? With an activated cable card you will get most (probably over 90%) of the channels without it being paired. I myself only lose a handful of channels with a non paired card. However I don't subscribe to any premium channels, card will need to be paired for any premium channels and a "few" standard channels.


Yes I'm sure. I've been using it for several months since rolling back and aren't missing any channels. This includes premiums I have and free preview weekends where I'm able to watch the premiums I don't subscribe to. I also downgraded then upgraded back, and when I did that I saw that I did lose the channels when I downgraded and saw that I got them back after upgrading.

Not saying people won't need to pair the card again with their cableco. Just that I didn't have to.


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## TivoJD

I've never lost cablecard pairing when downgrading from TE4 to TE3. Always check premiums and never lost any. Check out first page of this thread, I asked that question back in 2017, responses were cablecard pairing not lost from others in the forum and it was the same for me, not lost.


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## lhvetinari

As far as I have noticed, it depends on the headend system - Cisco/SA cablecards that pair with the Host ID stay paired (since the host ID doesn’t change) but Motorola cards that pair with both a Host and a Data ID can come undone since the Data ID can change (just like with hard drive upgrades)


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## gabrielstern

TivoJD said:


> Did this effect cable card pairing at all?


I just may have found a way to downgrade from hydra back to the classic platform without losing recordings but in my case i am using my romio to try and restore my original hard drive on my premiers recordings and tivo online was not working so I pulled out my 6tb normal drive i use, but when put a 3tb spare drive in my romio it was still in the hydra platform so I just rolled back to the classic platform on my 3tb drive my hope is i can now deploy my premier recordings from a spare premier drive to this drive and re upgrade or at least plug back in the other drive and still have my recordings their on my regular 6 tb romio drive, as I understand the romios do not have the same issues as the bolts do with each time you unplug a hard drive it reformats it and you lose your recordings.


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## rrrccc01

I upgraded/installed TE4 when it first came out, over the last few weeks my Roamio 4 has been getting worse and worse, slow response, stupid ads at the bottom, rebooting more and more often. So I bit the bullet this morning and "downgraded", I call it an upgrade, to TE3. i couldn't be happier. TE4 is/was lousy and I'm glad to be rid of it, so is my entertainment co-coordinator. It was even worth losing all the recorded stuff. The TE4 and the merger/buyout almost pushed me to putting the Roamio on eBay but as long as I can stick with TE3 and the old box keeps working I'm happy again. TE4, what a POS.


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## gabrielstern

rrrccc01 said:


> I upgraded/installed TE4 when it first came out, over the last few weeks my Roamio 4 has been getting worse and worse, slow response, stupid ads at the bottom, rebooting more and more often. So I bit the bullet this morning and "downgraded", I call it an upgrade, to TE3. i couldn't be happier. TE4 is/was lousy and I'm glad to be rid of it, so is my entertainment co-coordinator. The TE4 and the merger/buyout almost pushed me to putting the Roamio on eBay but as long as I can stick with TE3 and the old box keeps working I'm happy again. TE4, what a POS.


I guess you did not care about losing your recordings, but if it had been me, before i downgraded, I would have removed your regular hard drive from your romio and stuck another 3tb drive in it let it auto format then proceded with the downgrade as i think with the romios you only lose the recordings on the drive that is installed during the downgrade process, then put the regular drive back in and checked to see if the recordings are still their, in my case to create a restore drive for my series 4 as the software became corupted and tivo online was not working correctly to deploy to either my romio or bolt, I removed my expanded 6tb drive from my romio that I created using mffs reformator in 2015, and stuck temporarily a 3tb drive in my romio, let it format then went through the downgrade process, with that drive in and then miraculously using the old transfer a recording directly feature worked, so after i created the restore drive I reupgraded back to hydra before putting my regular hard drive in and my recordings were still their.


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## gabrielstern

I would be curios if someone could test what I did and take it a step further with the romio and see if the recordings would still be there on the normal drive, after going through the downgrade on another hard drive without reupgrading back to hydra before putting the normal hard drive back in, with the bolt it would be hopeless and more chalenging, but as far as hydra is concerned the graphics might look great,but if you can't retain the features of the classic platform,and especially with the romios it acts really weird with constant restarting, and the rolling ads really slow down both the romios and bolts. But especially screw up the romios and cause them to restart constantly.


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## rrrccc01

gabrielstern said:


> I guess you did not care about losing your recordings, but if it had been me, before i downgraded, I would have removed your regular hard drive from your romio and stuck another 3tb drive in it let it auto format then proceded with the downgrade as i think with the romios you only lose the recordings on the drive that is installed during the downgrade process, then put the regular drive back in and checked to see if the recordings are still their, in my case to create a restore drive for my series 4 as the software became corupted and tivo online was not working correctly to deploy to either my romio or bolt, I removed my expanded 6tb drive from my romio that I created using mffs reformator in 2015, and stuck temporarily a 3tb drive in my romio, let it format then went through the downgrade process, with that drive in and then miraculously using the old transfer a recording directly feature worked, so after i created the restore drive I reupgraded back to hydra before putting my regular hard drive in and my recordings were still their.


Sounds like a science project and I'm not really interested in a science project, I just want a device that is intuitive and works; I have that now.


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## gabrielstern

rrrccc01 said:


> Sounds like a science project and I'm not really interested in a science project, I just want a device that is intuitive and works; I have that now.


Got you, i want the same thing in my case it just turned into a science project, more out of frustration, but with time I will get everything the way i want, I just wish it were simpler, I like forward to when I can permanently downgrade my romio back to the classic platform. But my final piece of advice would be, if you also have tivo desktop plus now that you have downgraded would be to also download tivo py so you can back up but once again be able to transfer recordings back to your romio if you need to, without frustration. Glad you are satisfied though.


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## Jim1348

I haven't read all 30 pages here, but if I decide to downgrade, are the instructions on Page 1 still correct?


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## gabrielstern

Jim1348 said:


> I haven't read all 30 pages here, but if I decide to downgrade, are the instructions on Page 1 still correct?


Yes I followed them around 3 weeks ago to temporarily downgrade my romio with a different drive in it so i could pull recordings out of my series 4, as that software had become corrupted and I had to create a restore drive in my romio to preserve the recordings and when I reuograded back in my romio the recordings on my normal romio drive was still intact, but whatever you do before you downgrade try and back up your recordings, if you care about them if not go ahead and proceed with the downgrade process,but if you care about your recordings and do not have any other tivos running the classic platform then you need to download tivo py from that forum and use that software as that is the only way to back them up and transfer them into your computer. Although it does not always accurately transfer in the program guides and information and the dates, if you do have other devices running the classic platforms then you would want to transfer directly your recordings into that device and also use tivo desktop plus just to transfer them into your computer from any device still running the classic platform, and tgen thanks to tivo py sharing the folder with tivo desktop plus you can transfer them back once again to any device running the classic platform, I hope this extra information helps you.


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## mdavej

I also did this recently on a couple of units. Most went smooth, but one got stuck in a reboot loop. For that one, I kept hitting ok as fast as I could, and it eventually broke out of the loop.


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## gabrielstern

mdavej said:


> I also did this recently on a couple of units. Most went smooth, but one got stuck in a reboot loop. For that one, I kept hitting ok as fast as I could, and it eventually broke out of the loop.


When i did my temporary roll back it went smoothly and only took about 15 minutes on my romio, I will do a permanent roll back after I find and purchase a used 6 tuner non vox bolt and mount externally an 8tb red drive on top and finish transfering the recordings directly, and then upgrade that device to hydra, then hopefully finally I can retire my series 4 as my computer interface device, and replace it with my romio, as my computer interface device, then, I would only need my series 4 in case if I needed to pull recordings from the other devices in case of any hardware failures or software corruption. It is the only way for me to workaround tivos insistence on rolling out software platforms without making sure their are no bugs or glitches in the software and they retain all the features of the classic platform, graphics, are not everything, especially if it does not work well on the romios, with the bolts dthe the hydra system works pretty well but with the romios and the ad deployments it cannot handle it properly and seems to with my romio pro restart at least once or twice a week. Thankfully with the romios you can remove a hard drive and put other drives in it and roll back and forth between the 2 platforms and not lose your recordings each time you put the regular hard drive back in. Like with the bolts, I may soon purchase another 6tb drive and create a recordings restore drive for my bolt as well, in case something goes wrong with that device. So I can protect the recordings in my bolt as well, in case I have to roll it back also.


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> When i did my temporary roll back it went smoothly and only took about 15 minutes on my romio, I will do a permanent roll back after I find and purchase a used 6 tuner non vox bolt and mount externally an 8tb red drive on top and finish transfering the recordings directly, and then upgrade that device to hydra, then hopefully finally I can retire my series 4 as my computer interface device, and replace it with my romio, as my computer interface device, then, I would only need my series 4 in case if I needed to pull recordings from the other devices in case of any hardware failures or software corruption. It is the only way for me to workaround tivos insistence on rolling out software platforms without making sure their are no bugs or glitches in the software and they retain all the features of the classic platform, graphics, are not everything, especially if it does not work well on the romios, with the bolts dthe the hydra system works pretty well but with the romios and the ad deployments it cannot handle it properly and seems to with my romio pro restart at least once or twice a week. Thankfully with the romios you can remove a hard drive and put other drives in it and roll back and forth between the 2 platforms and not lose your recordings each time you put the regular hard drive back in. Like with the bolts, I may soon purchase another 6tb drive and create a recordings restore drive for my bolt as well, in case something goes wrong with that device. So I can protect the recordings in my bolt as well, in case I have to roll it back also.


I guess a simple way of putting it, is if you have a romio as well as other tivo devices such as a bolt or series 4 or even other devices you should using other hard drives and the rollback procedures create multiple back up drives, so if you need to restore recordings to other tivo devices you can if they originally ran the classic platform, and it is especially a good idea if you have a tivo bolt that is a non vox model because each time you unplug the hard drive and back in it just automatically reformats it and you lose your recordings.


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I guess a simple way of putting it, is if you have a romio as well as other tivo devices such as a bolt or series 4 or even other devices you should using other hard drives and the rollback procedures create multiple back up drives, so if you need to restore recordings to other tivo devices you can if they originally ran the classic platform, and it is especially a good idea if you have a tivo bolt that is a non vox model because each time you unplug the hard drive and back in it just automatically reformats it and you lose your recordings.


Another suggestion is after you do a roll back is to run the tivo through the clear and delete everything cycle and then repeat guided setup so it clears out any file or recording or folder or software fragmentation, thats why your romio might have gotten stuck. Tivo threw a lot of junk in their software.


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## Jim1348

BadCommand said:


> So after spending an excruciating 3 days with the Hydra UI on my Roamio and 6 Mini's (and with nasty family feedback), I posted the request to rollback on the Tivo forum site. I was sent a message to contact Tivo support directly to find out how. Tivo support was very helpful and gave me the following instructions which they OK'd for forum posting. KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING!!!
> 
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun
> 
> All in all, the rollback didn't take more than 10-15 minutes HOWEVER once complete and finished Guided Setup on the Roamio, if you have a MOCA Mini network, you'll want to go straight into the Roamio and enable the MOCA Bridge option right away before the Roamio dials back in a 2nd time as that process tied up the Change Network Settings option for a couple hours in my case (YMMV)!
> 
> For the Mini's v1 (but I'd guess v2 is the same). Also note, I waited til the Roamio had completely rolled back and I completed Guided Setup before starting this process:
> 1.a.) Go to Menu- Help- Repeat Guided Setup- press Thumbs Down 3 times and press Enter. OR
> 1.b.) You'll already see the "downgrade" screen and it will prompt you from there.
> 2.) You'll now see the "old" Guided Setup. Go thru that so the Mini can phone home.
> 3.) The Mini will phone home and prompt you once again to go thru Guided Setup.
> 4.) After the 2nd Guided Setup completion, you should be back in business
> 5.) Congrats- You've just wasted a better part of a day!
> Note: Each time I went thru Guided Setup, my Mini would fail to connect and I would get the Network Connection Error screen (N07). Simply waiting a second or two for the Mini (or Roamio) to gather itself and retrying solved the problem 100% of the time.
> 
> Overall, the reason the Hydra UI was such a non-starter for me is that the UI was just too sluggish on my entire system. I feel the code is just too heavy on the Roamio processor and I would guess it would be better on the Bolt. I found the lagginess caused me, and I'm being literal here, a bit of almost anxiousness and stress- it was just that poor performing. With that said, someone else did report they were happy with it on the OTA Roamio- I would guess that's due to the processor workload compared to my cablecard version.
> 
> Also- and this was just as important- for whatever the Replay button no longer functions as a alternative Back button. This was posted BEFORE I "upgraded" and I honestly wasn't sure just how critical that darn button was- it is VERY important- especially in the My Shows or anywhere the Tivo button is used. So, as currently laid out a new remote with Back is pretty much mandatory and at $45/each for 7 units- a purchase that I'm just not willing to invest in for something (a.) I felt could be easily overcome by leaving the back function intact, or allowing thru Setup, the remapping of a much less used button. And (b.) if I were going to go that route I would prefer to just apply the funds to purchase of units that were strong enough to carry the Hydra interface.
> 
> In summary- returning to the Good "Old" Interface has never felt like a better upgrade!
> 
> Hope this helps and Good Luck!


I did this for my TiVo Roamio OTA yesterday and then both of my TiVo Minis. It works well, but as already mentioned, it is time consuming!

When I originally upgraded, I had mixed feelings about performing the upgrade. It was something of an experiment to see of I would like it better. My wife, who is the main user of the Roamio OTA, said it probably wouldn't matter much to her.

My motivation to downgrade was because of my interface with Tivo Minis and Slingboxes. I have both a Slingbox PRO-HD and 500. When the Minis go dark after a period of unuse, it seemed easier to "wake them up" under the legacy firmware, via the Slingboxes, than under Hydra. Perhaps I need to look at the Standby settings.


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## gabrielstern

Jim1348 said:


> I did this for my TiVo Roamio OTA yesterday and then both of my TiVo Minis. It works well, but as already mentioned, it is time consuming!
> 
> When I originally upgraded, I had mixed feelings about performing the upgrade. It was something of an experiment to see of I would like it better. My wife, who is the main user of the Roamio OTA, said it probably wouldn't matter much to her.
> 
> My motivation to downgrade was because of my interface with Tivo Minis and Slingboxes. I have both a Slingbox PRO-HD and 500. When the Minis go dark after a period of unuse, it seemed easier to "wake them up" under the legacy firmware, via the Slingboxes, than under Hydra. Perhaps I need to look at the Standby settings.


yes with the romios at least nowadays the hydra interface is very overwhelming, on the processor. To answer yours and others questions about the bolt, the hydra interface is much less overwelming on it, and works quite well, but with the romios this started around 6 months ago, as i had upgraded my bolt and romio back in 2018, thats why I am glad my experiment worked with using my romio and temporarely rolling back to create a restore drive, for my series 4, but in what i am doing it is even more time consuming, but well worth it to know how to get things working the way I want to. I just wish I did not have to resort to doing scientific experiments just to get all my tivos working the way they use too. It was not like this until around 2018, with backing up your recordings and being able to transfer your recordings to other tivos it used to be so simple, but nowadays it just makes you want to pull your hair out, at least in the non hydra platform you can still pull recordings easily and completely, vs using tivo online which is horrible and does not work. it is also the same with backing up your recordings into your computer, with the hydra system. Anyway enough of my venting I hope my previose posts even if lengthy and very detailed, help at least some with some other ways to preserve thier recordings before they go through the downgrade process permanantely.


----------



## C Hakkarinen

Jim1348 said:


> I haven't read all 30 pages here, but if I decide to downgrade, are the instructions on Page 1 still correct?


I did the downgrade today on a Bolt and a Mini and it worked like described in the Page 1 descriptions. The one thing I did extra was that I unplugged the Mini from AC power before starting the downgrade on the Bolt. And after confirming that the Bolt had successfully be moved back from Experience 4 to Experience 3, I then powered up the Mini. The Mini screen then showed a message that the Bolt that it was connected to had been downgraded. It said I could downgrade the Mini by pressing thumbs down 3 times and then the enter key. It also provided instructions on how to upgrade the Roamio back to Experience 4. I chose the downgrade and didn't look back.


----------



## Majik45

THanks for this thread. I just upgraded to a Roamio recently off of E-Bay as I have just been using 2 old Tivo HD models for my over the air viewing. I had a bunch of shows I wanted to be able to transfer over to the new Tivo for my wife to finish watching, and doing the downgrade allowed me to do this easily. I also was able to catch it before too much had recorded on the new main Tivo in our house. Once I have most of the shows that we may want transferred over, I may upgrade again, but will make that decision later.


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## gabrielstern

Majik45 said:


> THanks for this thread. I just upgraded to a Roamio recently off of E-Bay as I have just been using 2 old Tivo HD models for my over the air viewing. I had a bunch of shows I wanted to be able to transfer over to the new Tivo for my wife to finish watching, and doing the downgrade allowed me to do this easily. I also was able to catch it before too much had recorded on the new main Tivo in our house. Once I have most of the shows that we may want transferred over, I may upgrade again, but will make that decision later.


I would advise against upgrading the romio back to the hydra interface with the bolts at this point they work okay with the hydra interface but over the past couple of months, their have been some bad software updates with the hydra platform with being able to download the program guide information, I just spent money on a non vox bolt +, as i will not buy a bolt vox or edge dvr, your romio, you just bought if you leave it in the classic platform you could also create multiple hard drive backups of your HD tivo dvrs but for that you would just need 1 3tb wd red or purple drive, as the romio auto formats up to 3 tb, also if you want to go bigger check out the mffs.3.2 tools forum or the mffs reformattor forum, as for me very soon, I will be permanently downgrading my romio pro dvr, after I finish getting the rest of the recordings out of it, another reason not to upgrade back to hydra, when you do everything turns into a science project and gets way more complicated and frustrating just to do things that are easy with the classic interface, read my other replies and responses and others comments from this thread and you will understand.


----------



## pfiagra

gabrielstern said:


> I would advise against upgrading the romio back to the hydra interface with the bolts at this point they work okay with the hydra interface but over the past couple of months, their have been some bad software updates with the hydra platform with being able to download the program guide information, I just spent money on a non vox bolt +, as i will not buy a bolt vox or edge dvr, your romio, you just bought if you leave it in the classic platform you could also create multiple hard drive backups of your HD tivo dvrs but for that you would just need 1 3tb wd red or purple drive, as the romio auto formats up to 3 tb, also if you want to go bigger check out the mffs.3.2 tools forum or the mffs reformattor forum, as for me very soon, I will be permanently downgrading my romio pro dvr, after I finish getting the rest of the recordings out of it, another reason not to upgrade back to hydra, when you do everything turns into a science project and gets way more complicated and frustrating just to do things that are easy with the classic interface, read my other replies and responses and others comments from this thread and you will understand.


That there is one long sentence.


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## gabrielstern

pfiagra said:


> That there is one long sentence.


Yes it was, but he needed to know, why not to put the romio back in the hydra platform, it makes everything ten times harder, and way more complicated than it needs to be.


----------



## aaronwt

What is wrong with Hydra on Roamio? I still have two Roamios running Hydra. I have not had any issues with them. They have worked just as well as my two Bolts with Hydra. Which is to say they have worked great.


----------



## gabrielstern

aaronwt said:


> What is wrong with Hydra on Roamio? I still have two Roamios running Hydra. I have not had any issues with them. They have worked just as well as my two Bolts with Hydra. Which is to say they have worked great.


I am glad you have not had any issues running hydra on your romios. Unfortunately that is not the case for most people on this thread, including me. As for my bolts the issues have been a lot less, but I have still had some issues that started about 3 months ago, Thankfully if I want to I can roll my bolts back  if I want to, as well. The hydra system has a lot of glitches and they took out beloved features, such as transfering recordings directly between devices. Also with hydra even if you backed up your recordings using tivo py you still can not transfer them back to any devices using hydra. With devices running the classic platform you can still use tivo desktop to transfer your recordings into a computer and then with tivo py's interface transfer recordings back to any tivo using the classic platform or even use tivo py to do both, if you wish, again things that long time hard core tivo users like myself loved for years about tivo. Also like most tivo users I just want something that works and runs smoothly and works the way I need it too, without constant restarts, or having to call tivo to get them to stop pre roll ads, which is a real disservice to lifetime subscription tivo users. I could go on for hours and hours, but I think I have made my point and expressed well, what most users on this thread have said.


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## aaronwt

I can't say I've had constant restarts. The pre roll ads are a pain though if they come back after being removed.
But Like my Bolts I can still transfer my recordings automatically to a PC. I don't need to transfer them back since I can just stream content between TiVos. Or stream the content from the PC using Plex.

It also helps that I'm not as reliant on my TiVos as I was five or ten years ago. Because of the bad video quality on FiOS( which has progressively gotten worse over the last five or six years), I now watch the majority of my content from streaming services. Which have much better video quality than both FiOS and Comcast. If the video quality never deteriorated so much, then I would still be watching most of my content from my TiVo recordings. But the detail is just not there anymore since it is compressed so much.


----------



## gabrielstern

aaronwt said:


> I can't say I've had constant restarts. The pre roll ads are a pain though if they come back after being removed.
> But Like my Bolts I can still transfer my recordings automatically to a PC. I don't need to transfer them back since I can just stream content between TiVos. Or stream the content from the PC using Plex.
> 
> It also helps that I'm not as reliant on my TiVos as I was five or ten years ago. Because of the bad video quality on FiOS( which has progressively gotten worse over the last five or six years), I now watch the majority of my content from streaming services. Which have much better video quality than both FiOS and Comcast. If the video quality never deteriorated so much, then I would still be watching most of my content from my TiVo recordings. But the detail is just not there anymore since it is compressed so much.


I also have plex, but it will not play my tivo recordings transfered to my desktop, also tivo desktop will no longer let me transfer recordings into my computer from my tivo's running hydra, I can do it from my series 4 and soon my romio again. Also tivo online is very unreliable in completely transfering recordings, vs if I initiate a transfer a recording directly using the classic platform, that almost always transfers the recording completely, like you I have used tivo's for a long time, since 2013, and I have a series 4 my very first tivo that I use now as an interface tivo for my computer, a romio pro I bought 6 months after my first one that has an mffs reformated 6tb green drive , and a 4 tuner bolt with a mffs reformated 6tb red drive, and courtesy of Amazon, a non vox 6 tuner bolt +. I just got a month ago,with a mffs reformated red 8tb drive mounted externally on both bolts, and I managed to transfer all the recordings I wanted from the romio to the bolt plus before upgrading it to hydra. Now I need to just finish moving recordings from the romio to the series 4 temporarily before doing a permanent downgrade on my romio pro, then transfer everything from my series 4 to the romio, then I can retire my series 4. 2 months ago using a new 3 tb hard drive, after removing the 6tb, I performed the downgrade procedure on my romio so I could create a backup of my series 4 recordings. After tivo online did not work correctly to move my recordings temporarily from my series 4. That worked without a problem after that I reupgraded to hydra before putting my 6tb drive back in. After I finish getting the rest of my recordings out of my romio that I want, I am going to use my original 3tb hard drive for my romio to do the downgrade and then see if the recordings stay intact on the 6tb drive, without having to upgrade back to the hydra platform, if that works, I will post here, but I know with bolts that will not work, where with the romios you can create multiple recording drives for them to create backups of other tivos and change hard drives without losing any recordings if you put the original hard drive back in. With the bolt and newer tivos you can't do that.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I also have plex, but it will not play my tivo recordings transfered to my desktop, also tivo desktop will no longer let me transfer recordings into my computer from my tivo's running hydra, I can do it from my series 4 and soon my romio again. Also tivo online is very unreliable in completely transfering recordings, vs if I initiate a transfer a recording directly using the classic platform, that almost always transfers the recording completely, like you I have used tivo's for a long time, since 2013, and I have a series 4 my very first tivo that I use now as an interface tivo for my computer, a romio pro I bought 6 months after my first one that has an mffs reformated 6tb green drive , and a 4 tuner bolt with a mffs reformated 6tb red drive, and courtesy of Amazon, a non vox 6 tuner bolt +. I just got a month ago,with a mffs reformated red 8tb drive mounted externally on both bolts, and I managed to transfer all the recordings I wanted from the romio to the bolt plus before upgrading it to hydra. Now I need to just finish moving recordings from the romio to the series 4 temporarily before doing a permanent downgrade on my romio pro, then transfer everything from my series 4 to the romio, then I can retire my series 4. 2 months ago using a new 3 tb hard drive, after removing the 6tb, I performed the downgrade procedure on my romio so I could create a backup of my series 4 recordings. After tivo online did not work correctly to move my recordings temporarily from my series 4. That worked without a problem after that I reupgraded to hydra before putting my 6tb drive back in. After I finish getting the rest of my recordings out of my romio that I want, I am going to use my original 3tb hard drive for my romio to do the downgrade and then see if the recordings stay intact on the 6tb drive, without having to upgrade back to the hydra platform, if that works, I will post here, but I know with bolts that will not work, where with the romios you can create multiple recording drives for them to create backups of other tivos and change hard drives without losing any recordings if you put the original hard drive back in. With the bolt and newer tivos you can't do that.


Thats is another reason why I recomend downgrading romios back to the classic platform and leaving them running the classic interface if you have bolts or newer tivos running on hydra, to simplify what I am saying is if you are going to run any tivos on hydra you should have at least one tivo running the classic platform. so if anything goes wrong with the other tivos you can back up the recordings from the other tivos, and restore them later if needed. Also like you ,I do use my bolts for a lot more streaming these days vs recording, and with the bolts the hydra system does work better for streaming services with the picture quality vs the classic platform, but with the romios certain streaming apps like Amazon prime,and Hulu, and vudu, do not work well at all with romios running hydra, and with my romio loading Amazon prime would cause the romio to restart often. Also I have Comcast and I noticed the picture quality looked crappy on romios running hydra, but with my bolts the picture quality looks greatly improved running hydra, but about once or twice a month, if I load Hulu on my bolts the screen goes blank and Hulu will not load or says playback failure and I have to restart the bolt to get Hulu to work correctly, with sometimes even having to unplug my bolt just to restart it.


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## gabrielstern

Still has not happened with bringing back the functionality in hydra vs classic platform referenced above and it is 2020, I am almost their where I can permanetely revert my romio back to the classic platform, I am finishing using a series 4 tivo to get the rest of my recordings backed up, from my romio, and then I am going to use my original hard drive to revert back and see if my recordings stay intact on my regular hard drive in my romio pro, as I believe with romios you only lose your settings and recordings on the hard drive you perform the roll back procedure on, if everything goes smoothly and the recordings and settings are intact on my 6tb drive, then I will post and let this forum know, 

With bolts you have to transfer and back up all recordings before you perform any roll back procedures or even disconnect any hard drives as it will reformat, but with bolts you can copy and expand to a bigger hard drive without losing recordings or settings, but if you plug in the original hard drive you lose everything on both drives, with romios you can swap different hard drives back and forth without losing recordings or settings on the different hard drives, without it trying to auto format like the bolts, and thats where romios are great you can stick any hard drive in it up to 3tbs and it will auto format them, anything bigger you need to use mffs tools 3.2 or mffs reformator which works on drives up to 8tbs, which means once you revert your romio back permantely you can create multiple backups on other tivos including bolts and then revert them and transfer recordings back directly, in case their are glitches with tivo py transfering the recordings in, I find tivo desktop plus works best transfering recordings in but only works now with classic platform, and then using tivo py which shares the folder with tivo desktop and then allows the transfer back of any recordings to any tivo running the classic platform and not hydra.
Hopes info helps


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## krkaufman

Feel like this parallel thread (discussing the inability to downgrade older A92/A93 Minis from TE4 to TE3) should be mentioned here...

See: Trying to Move Mini from TE4 host to a TE3 Host


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## gabrielstern

krkaufman said:


> Feel like this parallel thread (discussing the inability to downgrade older A92/A93 Minis from TE4 to TE3) should be mentioned here...
> 
> See: Trying to Move Mini from TE4 host to a TE3 Host


Question first is the bolt you mentioned a bolt vox that can not be downgraded or is it a bolt that came with the classic platform, or te3 if that is the case you need to downgrade that bolt back to te3 or the classic platform then proceed with the downgrade instructions for the tivo mini unless it is a newer mini that came preloaded with te4.

In my case I have not used my mini since 2014, as it gave me issues when it was connected to my romio pro after a software update, so I brought my series 4 premier tivo out of retirement, and since then it has been a lifesaver when dealing with all the issues since hydra came out with preserving and backing up recordings and transfering them when everything else failed, but now I am working on finishing up a few things and testing a way to downgrade my romio without losing the recordings or settings on the regular drive I use, but with bolts this will not work, also if you can downgrade the specific bolt you mentioned, don't forget to back up or transfer any recordings you want to keep directly into any tivos running te3 or the classic platform, and if you do have tivo desktop use that to transfer any recordings into your computer and then use tivo py to transfer back once you have completed any downgrades.


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Question first is the bolt you mentioned a bolt vox that can not be downgraded or is it a bolt that came with the classic platform, or te3 if that is the case you need to downgrade that bolt back to te3 or the classic platform then proceed with the downgrade instructions for the tivo mini unless it is a newer mini that came preloaded with te4.
> 
> In my case I have not used my mini since 2014, as it gave me issues when it was connected to my romio pro after a software update, so I brought my series 4 premier tivo out of retirement, and since then it has been a lifesaver when dealing with all the issues since hydra came out with preserving and backing up recordings and transfering them when everything else failed, but now I am working on finishing up a few things and testing a way to downgrade my romio without losing the recordings or settings on the regular drive I use, but with bolts this will not work, also if you can downgrade the specific bolt you mentioned, don't forget to back up or transfer any recordings you want to keep directly into any tivos running te3 or the classic platform, and if you do have tivo desktop use that to transfer any recordings into your computer and then use tivo py to transfer back once you have completed any downgrades.


Also 1 other note tivo desktop only works now for transfering recordings in on tivos running te3 or the classic platform, not the hydra system since January of 2020, due to tivo not renewing the certificates to allow that.


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## krkaufman

gabrielstern said:


> Question first is the bolt you mentioned a bolt vox that can not be downgraded


The referenced thread involves inability to downgrade older A92/A93 Minis, not DVRs.


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## gabrielstern

krkaufman said:


> The referenced thread involves inability to downgrade older A92/A93 Minis, not DVRs.


Understand that but if the mini is an older mini it should be able to connect to a downgraded tivo, since it would have connected with no issues to dvrs running the classic platform, previosely, thats why I asked if the referenced bolt you mentioned that the mini still works with is a bolt, that can be downgraded, if it cannot be downgraded that might be part of what is causing the issue you referenced,

And just for a point of reference if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra or te4, than that can not be downgraded, so for a point of reference any bolts labeled bolt vox cannot be downgraded because it came preloaded already with hydra or te4, and edge dvrs are the same, thats why I will never buy any tivo after the the original bolts. And for a reference point, if the bolt or bolt + has the label bolt vox, then that could be part of the issue, as they came already running the hydra platform, from the factory, which started in 2018. Any bolt manufactured prior to 2018 came still running the classic blue screen platform, and can be downgraded.

Anyway I hoped I was able to help you try and figure out what is causing you to have trouble downgrading the particular mini you referenced, because you should be able to get it downgraded, but in order to do that you need to first connect it to a tivo running the older classic platform and then follow the instructions for downgrading a mini. Referenced in the first part of this forum, as it should work if you connect back into a tivo running the classic platform.


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## krkaufman

gabrielstern said:


> Understand that but if the mini is an older mini it should be able to connect to a downgraded tivo


Indeed. And the inability to do so is the root of the referenced thread.

I've only posted the reference here as a warning/heads-up to those who may be looking to rollback a DVR to TE3, and expecting any associated A92/A93 Minis running TE4 to follow. Do with this info what ye may.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Understand that but if the mini is an older mini it should be able to connect to a downgraded tivo, since it would have connected with no issues to dvrs running the classic platform, previosely, thats why I asked if the referenced bolt you mentioned that the mini still works with is a bolt, that can be downgraded, if it cannot be downgraded that might be part of what is causing the issue you referenced,
> 
> And just for a point of reference if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra or te4, than that can not be downgraded, so for a point of reference any bolts labeled bolt vox cannot be downgraded because it came preloaded already with hydra or te4, and edge dvrs are the same, thats why I will never buy any tivo after the the original bolts. And for a reference point, if the bolt or bolt + has the label bolt vox, then that could be part of the issue, as they came already running the hydra platform, from the factory, which started in 2018. Any bolt manufactured prior to 2018 came still running the classic blue screen platform, and can be downgraded.
> 
> Anyway I hoped I was able to help you try and figure out what is causing you to have trouble downgrading the particular mini you referenced, because you should be able to get it downgraded, but in order to do that you need to first connect it to a tivo running the older classic platform and then follow the instructions for downgrading a mini. Referenced in the first part of this forum, as it should work if you connect back into a tivo running the classic platform.


One other idea you may want to try to try and get your mini to connect to one of your dvrs running the classic platform and then allow the downgrade,is to unplug the bolt you referenced from the electrical outlet first, then try and see if the mini will then allow you to downgrade it and connect it to the tivo you want, I think their is a conflict where the mini keeps trying to connect to the bolt you referenced running hydra because that is what it has been connected too, downgrade,

that is causing a conflict, then go through the downgrade procedure for minis, and once you have sucessfully connected it to the tivo you want, then plug the bolt running hydra back in,

but by temporarily taking that particular dvr out of the equation then at least you can work on getting the mini to connect to the tivo you want to without the tivo running hydra causing a conflict, and thats why I think you are getting the cannot be downgraded error,

because if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra from the factory then that bolt can not be downgraded, and if the mini is still connecting to that bolts software that is what is most likely causing the issue you are experiencing, again I have not used my mini since 2014, but if I remember correctly minis do not actaully have any physical software in them, it is all based on a network connection to a host tivo dvr.

I hope this step I outlined helps you resolve the trouble you are experiencing, so you can get the mini to once again work the way you want it too.


gabrielstern said:


> Understand that but if the mini is an older mini it should be able to connect to a downgraded tivo, since it would have connected with no issues to dvrs running the classic platform, previosely, thats why I asked if the referenced bolt you mentioned that the mini still works with is a bolt, that can be downgraded, if it cannot be downgraded that might be part of what is causing the issue you referenced,
> 
> And just for a point of reference if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra or te4, than that can not be downgraded, so for a point of reference any bolts labeled bolt vox cannot be downgraded because it came preloaded already with hydra or te4, and edge dvrs are the same, thats why I will never buy any tivo after the the original bolts. And for a reference point, if the bolt or bolt + has the label bolt vox, then that could be part of the issue, as they came already running the hydra platform, from the factory, which started in 2018. Any bolt manufactured prior to 2018 came still running the classic blue screen platform, and can be downgraded.
> 
> Anyway I hoped I was able to help you try and figure out what is causing you to have trouble downgrading the particular mini you referenced, because you should be able to get it downgraded, but in order to do that you need to first connect it to a tivo running the older classic platform and then follow the instructions for downgrading a mini. Referenced in the first part of this forum, as it should work if you connect back into a tivo running the classic platform.


----------



## krkaufman

gabrielstern said:


> One other idea you may want to try to try and get your mini to connect to one of your dvrs running the classic platform and then allow the downgrade,is to unplug the bolt you referenced from the electrical outlet first, then try and see if the mini will then allow you to downgrade it and connect it to the tivo you want, I think their is a conflict where the mini keeps trying to connect to the bolt you referenced running hydra because that is what it has been connected too, downgrade,
> 
> that is causing a conflict, then go through the downgrade procedure for minis, and once you have sucessfully connected it to the tivo you want, then plug the bolt running hydra back in,
> 
> but by temporarily taking that particular dvr out of the equation then at least you can work on getting the mini to connect to the tivo you want to without the tivo running hydra causing a conflict, and thats why I think you are getting the cannot be downgraded error,
> 
> because if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra from the factory then that bolt can not be downgraded, and if the mini is still connecting to that bolts software that is what is most likely causing the issue you are experiencing, again I have not used my mini since 2014, but if I remember correctly minis do not actaully have any physical software in them, it is all based on a network connection to a host tivo dvr.
> 
> I hope this step I outlined helps you resolve the trouble you are experiencing, so you can get the mini to once again work the way you want it too.


I appreciate the help, truly, but I'm not in need of any. I don't have any devices currently suffering from the problem.



gabrielstern said:


> go through the downgrade procedure for minis, and once you have sucessfully connected it to the tivo you want,


But I don't think you understand the problem described in the referenced thread. The Minis are unable to downgrade.


----------



## gabrielstern

krkaufman said:


> Indeed. And the inability to do so is the root of the referenced thread.
> 
> I've only posted the reference here as a warning/heads-up to those who may be looking to rollback a DVR to TE3, and expecting any associated A92/A93 Minis running TE4 to follow. Do with this info what ye may.


Gotcha then if you are, you should post what I just posted about unplugging any devices running hydra first,if you are attempting to reconnect a mini into a tivo running the classic platform 
but my big project right now is finishing up my test of an experiment with my romio pro and downgraded it permantely back to te3 or classic platform without losing any recordings or settings on my normal hard drive, which if it goes the way I think it will, will be a big help and may be a faster solution vs the hours it can take to move and transfer recordings, but I caution it will only work with romios, and it involves temporary swapping hard drives in it, and letting the romio auto format the different hard drive going through guided setup and then performing the downgrade procedure.

Then putting the normal hard drive back in And the settings on that drive and programs should still be their, but I need to finish testing it before I can 100 percent say yes to that method, and even with using that method I still recomend tranfering all recordings first to another tivo, or computer.


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Gotcha then if you are, you should post what I just posted about unplugging any devices running hydra first,if you are attempting to reconnect a mini into a tivo running the classic platform
> but my big project right now is finishing up my test of an experiment with my romio pro and downgraded it permantely back to te3 or classic platform without losing any recordings or settings on my normal hard drive, which if it goes the way I think it will, will be a big help and may be a faster solution vs the hours it can take to move and transfer recordings, but I caution it will only work with romios, and it involves temporary swapping hard drives in it, and letting the romio auto format the different hard drive going through guided setup and then performing the downgrade procedure.
> 
> Then putting the normal hard drive back in And the settings on that drive and programs should still be their, but I need to finish testing it before I can 100 percent say yes to that method, and even with using that method I still recomend tranfering all recordings first to another tivo, or computer.


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## krkaufman

gabrielstern said:


> because if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra from the factory then that bolt can not be downgraded


Is this actually the case?

I'm aware that the BOLT OTA and all EDGE models are TE4-only, but had not ever heard of any "as shipped" limitation for other BOLT models.


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## krkaufman

gabrielstern said:


> you should post what I just posted


I'll leave that to you, if you wish. But I'd urge you to give the thread a read before doing so.


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## gabrielstern

krkaufman said:


> Is this actually the case?
> 
> I'm aware that the BOLT OTA and all EDGE models are TE4-only, but had not ever heard of any "as shipped" limitation for other BOLT models.


Bolt vox models have that limitation if they were manufactured past a certain point in 2018 I think around March or so.


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## gabrielstern

krkaufman said:


> I'll leave that to you, if you wish. But I'd urge you to give the thread a read before doing so.


I have been and one of the issues that has been discussed on this thread is the losing all my recordings especially in the early posts, I know with bolts it won't work the swapping hard drives thing like I am doing, I actaully discovered this thread after tivo online would not work with me needing to transfer recordings temporararely from my series 4 into my romio and tivo online was not working even after I stuck a 3tb in my romio

so I actaully performed the downgrade procedure once already with a 3tb hard drive and then I was able to transfer directly every recording from my series 4 to that drive creating a restore drive for my series 4, I then reupgraded my romio back to hydra, before reinstalling my 6tb drive back in my romio pro, so now that I have a bolt + I am just working on temporarily moving a set of recordings out of my romio temporarily in case if after I perform the downgrade procedure using my original hard drive, and then put my 6 tb back in with the dvr not running hydra test and see if everything was the way I left it.

The one thing I have learned about tivo and tivos is they have made everything a mess since 2017 2018, and things have only gotten worse so when I am reading the posts and seeing all the frustrations people have I do understand, I have gone through it myself, and if something I figured out can help others in this thread accomplish what they want which is to go though downgraded their dvrs sucessfully and have things work the way they want and have all their settings and recordings at least in a state where once they downgrade, they can restore them without a ton of complications.

People get frustrated when things don't work the way they should, and the lesson newer tivo users need to think about and even experienced ones need to learn is make back ups, even if tivo currently has lost sight of that, and made it more difficult to do that, you still find a way to take precautions, and still get things backed up period including recordings.


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## krkaufman

krkaufman said:


> But I'd urge you to give the thread a read before doing so.





gabrielstern said:


> I have been and one of the issues that has been discussed on this thread


"The thread" wasn't *this* thread.

It was this one:


krkaufman said:


> Feel like this parallel thread (discussing the inability to downgrade older A92/A93 Minis from TE4 to TE3) should be mentioned here...
> 
> See: Trying to Move Mini from TE4 host to a TE3 Host


----------



## gabrielstern

krkaufman said:


> "The thread" wasn't *this* thread.
> 
> It was this one:
> ​


I am referring to the how to rollback a romio or mini from hydra, forum, which is this forum, and yes. several times it has been mentioned about losing all your recordings and settings, when you downgrade, and it has also been mentioned that tivo py for some has not worked in backing up recordings , and I know with romios you only lose recordings and or settings in most cases on the hard drive that is installed while the downgrade is being performed, but just as a precaution,you still should back up all your recordings, anyway, if you can before you swap any hard drives even in romios.

Also that only works in romios where you can swap hard drives back and forth, without losing settings or recordings on the hard drives. 
I also know that with romios and newer tivos the software is built into the motherboard and not the hard drives itself, 
The series 4s and earlier tivos the software is actaully built into the hard drives, but with series 4 tivos you can like the romios swap hard drives back and forth and reinstall them without losing settings or recordings between the drives, but with earlier tivos it gets a bit more complicated.

The point I am making is with romios it is possible to rollback the software without losing your recordings and settings, in most cases, but you have to be willing to remove the hard drive from the romio and temporarily install another hard drive in it, and then let it auto format repeat guided set up,, then follow the downgrade procedure instructions, and after that is complete, then you can remove the hard drive that was used just to perform the rollback, and reinstall the factory drive or whatever hard drive you normally use.

And the good news is Once you do that on at least one romio, it becomes a lot easier to downgrade the rest of your tivo devices, including bolts because now you have a platform that makes it a lot easier to transfer your recordings, but also a lot easier to back up your recordings to a computer using a program like tivo desktop plus, or tivo py or both, without having to go through like with the series 4 tivos creating and using multiple images on different hard drives, just so you can transfer a recording out of a tivo running hydra, because tivo online won't transfer a recording directly, or a tivo running hydra won't let you at least transfer a recording into your computer because tivo did not want to renew their certificates for tivo desktop plus, and so now it only works on tivos not running hydra, and then need tivo py to restore the feature of transfering a recording back to at least any tivo that runs on the classic platform.

That is my point why doing the temporarily swapping hard drives in at least one romio to perform a rollback because that starts the process of making things easier to then do what needs to be done as precautions before performing roll back procedures on other romios or bolts.


----------



## ggieseke

gabrielstern said:


> The point I am making is with romios it is possible to rollback the software without losing your recordings and settings, in most cases, but you have to be willing to remove the hard drive from the romio and temporarily install another hard drive in it, and then let it auto format repeat guided set up,, then follow the downgrade procedure instructions, and after that is complete, then you can remove the hard drive that was used just to perform the rollback, and reinstall the factory drive or whatever hard drive you normally use.


Have you actually done this successfully? I always assumed that changes in the database schema between TE4 and TE3 were the reason that a rollback wipes everything.


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## gabrielstern

ggieseke said:


> Have you actually done this successfully? I always assumed that changes in the database schema between TE4 and TE3 were the reason that a rollback wipes everything.


As I have previosely mentioned in several posts on this forum is that after bieng very frustrated I had done this procedure in my romio pro which I have owned since 2013, and actaully pulled out my 6tb mffs reformated drive and temporarily stuck a 3tb red drive in it back in September to pull recordings from my series 4 TV as I needed to reimage the drive as the software became corrupted, and tivo online was not working transfering the recordings to my romio or bolt. And even after I stuck a 3tb drive in my romio the software was still in hydra, and I still could not get the recordings transfered.

So I performed the rollback procedure And was able to then using the good old fashioned transfer a recording directly feature, then I was able to sucessfully transfer every recording while creating a restore drive for my series 4.

After I sucessfully did that while the 3tb was still in my romio, I then reupgraded the interface back into hydra, before putting the 6tb drive back in my romio, and everything was still intact including all recordings and settings.

I also once stuck my stock hard drive back in my romio after I first upgraded my romio to hydra back in 2018. Which I had not used since 2015 and all the settings were still intact. But showing in the hydra style graphics.

So what I am testing now is to see if after I stick my stock 3tb drive back in which I have since wiped and then perform the rollback procedure is, but this time leave the interface in classic, before I stick my 6tb back in my romio and see if everything stays intact like before.

But before I do that I am finishing up transfering some recordings into a 4tb drive that is a series 4 image drive, in case something goes wrong.

But to answer your question the answer is yes. But before I post a definite complete yes, I need to finish up backing up some recordings that are still in my romio in case something goes wrong.

Just remember what I said about romios vs bolts and newer, though you only lose recordings and settings on the drive that is in the romio,while the procedure is being performed, bolts I can not say that. At all because you will lose all recordings.

Remember what I also said about series 4 tivos also in that you can toggle back and forth between different hard drives and the settings and recordings between the different hard drives stay intact, but require separate images for each hard drive.

And that romios have in common with series 4 that you can toggle back and forth between different hard drives without losing settings and recordings, but that the software is built into the motherboard and does not require software images on the hard drive, and that their is an auto format facility in them that works up to 3tbs or terabytes.

With bolts and newer tivos you can not toggle back and forth between hard drives, though you can copy a drive and expand it using a program like mffs 3.2 tools, to a bigger drive, but if you then stick the original hard drive back in you lose your recordings and settings on both drives.

I am almost finished with backing up my recordings from my romio in case something goes wrong or does not go smoothly, and should be done by Friday, then on Saturday I will perform the rollback procedure permantely on my romio using my stock 3tb drive, and then I will reinstall my 6tb drive in it.

Luckily I have a bolt + that most of the recordings that were on my romio is now transfered to and running hydra. So I can now safely verify and perform this procedure on my romio permantely


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> As I have previosely mentioned in several posts on this forum is that after bieng very frustrated I had done this procedure in my romio pro which I have owned since 2013, and actaully pulled out my 6tb mffs reformated drive and temporarily stuck a 3tb red drive in it back in September to pull recordings from my series 4 TV as I needed to reimage the drive as the software became corrupted, and tivo online was not working transfering the recordings to my romio or bolt. And even after I stuck a 3tb drive in my romio the software was still in hydra, and I still could not get the recordings transfered.
> 
> So I performed the rollback procedure And was able to then using the good old fashioned transfer a recording directly feature, then I was able to sucessfully transfer every recording while creating a restore drive for my series 4.
> 
> After I sucessfully did that while the 3tb was still in my romio, I then reupgraded the interface back into hydra, before putting the 6tb drive back in my romio, and everything was still intact including all recordings and settings.
> 
> I also once stuck my stock hard drive back in my romio after I first upgraded my romio to hydra back in 2018. Which I had not used since 2015 and all the settings were still intact. But showing in the hydra style graphics.
> 
> So what I am testing now is to see if after I stick my stock 3tb drive back in which I have since wiped and then perform the rollback procedure is, but this time leave the interface in classic, before I stick my 6tb back in my romio and see if everything stays intact like before.
> 
> But before I do that I am finishing up transfering some recordings into a 4tb drive that is a series 4 image drive, in case something goes wrong.
> 
> But to answer your question the answer is yes. But before I post a definite complete yes, I need to finish up backing up some recordings that are still in my romio in case something goes wrong.
> 
> Just remember what I said about romios vs bolts and newer, though you only lose recordings and settings on the drive that is in the romio,while the procedure is being performed, bolts I can not say that. At all because you will lose all recordings.
> 
> Remember what I also said about series 4 tivos also in that you can toggle back and forth between different hard drives and the settings and recordings between the different hard drives stay intact, but require separate images for each hard drive.
> 
> And that romios have in common with series 4 that you can toggle back and forth between different hard drives without losing settings and recordings, but that the software is built into the motherboard and does not require software images on the hard drive, and that their is an auto format facility in them that works up to 3tbs or terabytes.
> 
> With bolts and newer tivos you can not toggle back and forth between hard drives, though you can copy a drive and expand it using a program like mffs 3.2 tools, to a bigger drive, but if you then stick the original hard drive back in you lose your recordings and settings on both drives.
> 
> I am almost finished with backing up my recordings from my romio in case something goes wrong or does not go smoothly, and should be done by Friday, then on Saturday I will perform the rollback procedure permantely on my romio using my stock 3tb drive, and then I will reinstall my 6tb drive in it.
> 
> Luckily I have a bolt + that most of the recordings that were on my romio is now transfered to and running hydra. So I can now safely verify and perform this procedure on my romio permantely


Remember what I said about romios and that you only lose recordings and settings in most cases only on the hard drive that is installed at the time the rollback is performed, I have already for the most part proven that to be correct, I am just finishing up the next step to prove I am correct, more completely and thoroughly, and

unlike some others that posted statements like what I have been saying within this forum but then not explain the why or how it is possible and how to do it, with romio devices,I am perfectly willing to and happy to explain how to do it even if some others don't like it or do not believe it is possible.

In other words I am saying if you have a way to do something or perform a procedure while preserving certain things or makes the job easier to do, and benefits others then post it and share it but be willing to explain how you did it, but don't just make statements without the why and how, as I saw some others do in this forum talking about the same things, I have mentioned such as their is a way to rollback from hydra while preserving your recordings but they never explained themselves or the why and how, and the variables involved or that it only works with romio devices and not bolts,

Thats what got my started with my kick about this can be done and my wanting to further prove it can be done. So others will have an easier time rolling back their romios,

but have a better foundation utilizing their romios and its capabilities to then be able to pull recordings more easily from their other tivos such as tivo bolts, before starting the rollback procedures on a tivo bolt, for example.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Remember what I said about romios and that you only lose recordings and settings in most cases only on the hard drive that is installed at the time the rollback is performed, I have already for the most part proven that to be correct, I am just finishing up the next step to prove I am correct, more completely and thoroughly, and
> 
> unlike some others that posted statements like what I have been saying within this forum but then not explain the why or how it is possible and how to do it, with romio devices,I am perfectly willing to and happy to explain how to do it even if some others don't like it or do not believe it is possible.
> 
> In other words I am saying if you have a way to do something or perform a procedure while preserving certain things or makes the job easier to do, and benefits others then post it and share it but be willing to explain how you did it, but don't just make statements without the why and how, as I saw some others do in this forum talking about the same things, I have mentioned such as their is a way to rollback from hydra while preserving your recordings but they never explained themselves or the why and how, and the variables involved or that it only works with romio devices and not bolts,
> 
> Thats what got my started with my kick about this can be done and my wanting to further prove it can be done. So others will have an easier time rolling back their romios,
> 
> but have a better foundation utilizing their romios and its capabilities to then be able to pull recordings more easily from their other tivos such as tivo bolts, before starting the rollback procedures on a tivo bolt, for example.


Some good and bad news after running my last test concerning a permanent downgrade, I will post my findings below, the good news is if you have other tivo devices such as tivo bolts and other romios, you can do the swap hard drive method and temporarily downgrade the software, so you can at least back up your recordings from other tivos in case tivo online does not work, or tivo py is not allowing a transfer into a computer, which will allow you to at least transfer the recordings directly into a different hard drive, from another tivo running hydra before performing a permanent downgrade, but then if you want to use that hard drive again without losing the recordings or settings on the factory drive or expanded and reformatted hard drive, you will need to reupgrade back into the hydra platform, with romios before reinstalling the factory drive or reformatted and expanded hard, as I discovered that if you leave it in classic a screen error pops up that says call tivo custumer service software downgrade detected.


----------



## gabrielstern

I have completed my final test with my romio pro concerning if it is possible using the swap hard drive method to permantely downgrade and then reinstall the factory drive or an mffs reformated drive back in and still have the drive boot while preserving all recordings and settings. Their is some good news and bad news concerning this.

The good news is you can using the swap hard drive method temporarily downgrade the software from hydra to at least get recordings out of other tivo devices before performing a permanent downgrade procedure on other tivo devices such as other romios or bolts, and you can still create multiple restore drives with romio devices for other tivo devices, but you will need to reupgrade back into the hydra platform on the tivo device you performed the swap in before putting the factory hard drive or expanded or reformatted hard drive back in.

This is still a good foundation though to at least be able to get at least one tivo permanetely downgraded while at least preserving recordings you want to keep in case tivo py or tivo online does not work correctly. You can still use kttmg as well to back up season passes.

Now to the bad news if you leave the tivo romio in the classic platform after performing the hard drive swap, and then reinstall the factory hard drive or the normal hard drive you use, without upgrading back into hydra before reinstalling the normal hard drive you use,then an error screen pops up saying call tivo custumer service software downgrade detected, and the drive won't boot up, so for me, I did back up to my old trusty series 4 tivo my recordings that were left on my romio using a 4tb drive in my series 4, and as far as the settings I did not really care about them but I wanted to test to see if I could preserve my recordings and settings on my 6tb drive, I use regularly in my romio, unfortunately while the drive was not wiped a software downgrade error came up, so I am doing a drive wipe on my 6tb drive and then I will reformat it using mffs reformator version 4, 

But not all bad news as I have discovered another way to back up and get recordings out without fail of tivo users that have multiple tivos, so they can at least have a foundation to start permanent downgrade procedures 1 at a time on multiple tivos while preserving recordings without the attempts to transfer and back up recordings failing or not completing the transfers successfully.

Also 1 final note swapping back and forth between different hard drives and software platforms will only work with romio devices, not tivo bolts or newer tivos, and if you do not have multiple tivos or have newer tivos and only 1 romio, or just 1 tivo, I highly recomend going to Amazon and purchasing a refurbished romio pro that comes included with the all in service plan, before attempting any downgrade procedures on any tivo or using my method.


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## sliderbob

So should I be able to remove my Tivo Roamio's 8th hard drive with recordings, replace it with, say a 500gb hard drive, downgrade from Hydra to TE3, clear and delete everything, remove the 500gb drive, replace it with my 8tb drive and have it working again with TE3 with all my shows?


----------



## gabrielstern

sliderbob said:


> So should I be able to remove my Tivo Roamio's 8th hard drive with recordings, replace it with, say a 500gb hard drive, downgrade from Hydra to TE3, clear and delete everything, remove the 500gb drive, replace it with my 8tb drive and have it working again with TE3 with all my shows?


Unfortunately a permanent rollback when I tried it does not work in as a downgrade error pops up but if you had other tivos you wanted to rollback first you could stick the 500 gig in or any drive up to 3 tb and perform the rollback temporarily, so you can transfer the recordings out of the bolt or romio you want to rollback, then if you reupgrade back into hydra on a romio device you transfered the recordings to then put back in the 8tb drive all settings will still be their.

I have now rollbacked My two bolts and my romio pro permantely but I preserved all recordings first.

Bottom line is you can with romio devices switch back and forth between hydra and te3 just to preserve and transfer recordings from other tivo devices, such as bolts that can be rolled back, but I also recomend using tivo py as well if you need it.

Here's an example you want to install and replace a hard drive in another romio or bolt or you want to upgrade to an 8tb drive.

1. You would install a 3tb drive in your romio let it auto format go through guided setup then perform the rollback procedure then repeat guided setup again then start the transfer process from the tivo bolt or romio you want to preserve the recordings from before you remove the hard drive,

then once you have verified all recordings transfered sucessfully and completely, then remove the hard drive from the bolt or the other romio, then perform the rollback procedure on the other romio or bolt then remove that hard drive from the device you transfered the recordings from install 8tb drive let it auto format then remove drive let mffs reformator reformat the drive then install in romio or bolt, then transfer the recordings back to the device you installed the 8tb drive in that you rolled back. Then you can reuograde the romio back to hydra before you put your 8tb drive back and the settings are still their.

But if you want to permantely The romio you mentioned with the 8tb drive then you need to back up your settings and recordings first before you permantely rollback the romio you referenced.

And just another tidbit I discovered romios and bolts running hydra do to a bad software update seems to prematurely wear out the hard drives in romios and bolts, as when the devices are in standby they keep running at full speed instead of cooling down in standby like they do with romios and bolts running te3.

In other words at this point if you are planning rollbacks I recommend replacing the hard drives with western digital reds if they are up to 3 terribytes, a nd if going bigger using western digital purple drives.

Finnaly once you have rollbacked all your other tivos then permantely rollback the tivo you referenced and replace the hard drive with a new 8tb drive then wipe the other 8tb and then you can use it to regularly back up recordings from you other tivos.

Hope that answers your question

And remember swapping hard drives back and forth and going back and fourth temporarily only works with romios not bolts.

But to clarify the rollback method also works on bolts, but with bolts you cannot swap hard drives back and forth like romios, without losing all your settings or recordings

Bottom line is at this time I recomend getting out of running any bolt or romio in hydra due to what I referenced above. Concerning hydra prematurely wears out hard drives,

And one other thing hydra in bolts also can fry out the power sata ports in them, and that is a whole other problem with it, but I have a 20 dollar fix if anyone encounters that issue, And also remember tivo py also works well if you need to use any additional methods of preservation, it works even better now that a software update was deployed to it.


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## sliderbob

gabrielstern said:


> Unfortunately a permanent rollback when I tried it does not work in as a downgrade error pops up but if you had other tivos you wanted to rollback first you could stick the 500 gig in or any drive up to 3 tb and perform the rollback temporarily, so you can transfer the recordings out of the bolt or romio you want to rollback, then if you reupgrade back into hydra on a romio device you transfered the recordings to then put back in the 8tb drive all settings will still be their.
> 
> I have now rollbacked My two bolts and my romio pro permantely but I preserved all recordings first.
> 
> Bottom line is you can with romio devices switch back and forth between hydra and te3 just to preserve and transfer recordings from other tivo devices, such as bolts that can be rolled back, but I also recomend using tivo py as well if you need it.
> 
> Here's an example you want to install and replace a hard drive in another romio or bolt or you want to upgrade to an 8tb drive.
> 
> 1. You would install a 3tb drive in your romio let it auto format go through guided setup then perform the rollback procedure then repeat guided setup again then start the transfer process from the tivo bolt or romio you want to preserve the recordings from before you remove the hard drive,
> 
> then once you have verified all recordings transfered sucessfully and completely, then remove the hard drive from the bolt or the other romio, then perform the rollback procedure on the other romio or bolt then remove that hard drive from the device you transfered the recordings from install 8tb drive let it auto format then remove drive let mffs reformator reformat the drive then install in romio or bolt, then transfer the recordings back to the device you installed the 8tb drive in that you rolled back. Then you can reuograde the romio back to hydra before you put your 8tb drive back and the settings are still their.
> 
> But if you want to permantely The romio you mentioned with the 8tb drive then you need to back up your settings and recordings first before you permantely rollback the romio you referenced.
> 
> And just another tidbit I discovered romios and bolts running hydra do to a bad software update seems to prematurely wear out the hard drives in romios and bolts, as when the devices are in standby they keep running at full speed instead of cooling down in standby like they do with romios and bolts running te3.
> 
> In other words at this point if you are planning rollbacks I recommend replacing the hard drives with western digital reds if they are up to 3 terribytes, a nd if going bigger using western digital purple drives.
> 
> Finnaly once you have rollbacked all your other tivos then permantely rollback the tivo you referenced and replace the hard drive with a new 8tb drive then wipe the other 8tb and then you can use it to regularly back up recordings from you other tivos.
> 
> Hope that answers your question
> 
> And remember swapping hard drives back and forth and going back and fourth temporarily only works with romios not bolts.
> 
> But to clarify the rollback method also works on bolts, but with bolts you cannot swap hard drives back and forth like romios, without losing all your settings.
> 
> Bottom line is at this time I recomend getting out of running any bolt or romio in hydra due to what I referenced above. Concerning hydra prematurely wears out hard drives,
> 
> And one other thing hydra in bolts also can fry out the power sata ports in them, and that is a whole other problem with it, but I have a 20 dollar fix if anyone encounters. And also remember tivo py also works well if you need to use, that also especially since a software update was deployed to it.


Thanks. I only have Roamios, not any Bolts. I have 1 Roamio with an 8tb Red Drive, 1 Roamio with a 2tb drive with a cable card and both are running Hydra. I don't want to lose any recordings on both and I definitely don't want to keep Hydra. How do I save my settings on my cablecard tivo so it won't need repairing...I don't even think Comcast does it anymore?


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## gabrielstern

sliderbob said:


> Thanks. I only have Roamios, not any Bolts. I have 1 Roamio with an 8tb Red Drive, 1 Roamio with a 2tb drive with a cable card and both are running Hydra. I don't want to lose any recordings on both and I definitely don't want to keep Hydra. How do I save my settings on my cablecard tivo so it won't need repairing...I don't even think Comcast does it anymore?


I have Comcast also

step one is on your romio with a 2 tb hard drive is you need to purchase 2 8 tb hard drives I recomend purchasing purple drives that are labeled purz also do you have the stock hard drives for any of your romios if so you will need to 1st install the 500 gig drive in if you really have the 500 gig drive, and once you have purchased 2 new 8tb purple drives,

Next you need to install the 500 gig in your romio with the 2tb drive and first perform the rollback procedure on that device. Then remove the 500 gig drive, then install the new 8tb drive in let it auto format then remove and using mffs reformator hook up the 8tb hard drive to your computer let it reformat the drive then install back in to your 2tb romio and then begin the process of transfering all your recordings and reseting up all your streaming apps streaming movies etc, which now creates a back up and source drive of your 8tb romio downstairs as you can once again use the good old fashioned transfer a recording directly function.

Once that is complete and everything is setup on the 8tb drive on your romio that normally has a 2 tb drive. And your 8tb romio is backed up,.
Now remove the 8tb drive from the romio you used to create a back and install back in it the 500 gig and reupgrade on that drive back into the hydra platform. Then reinstall the 2tb drive into the romio you used to back up your 8 tb romio,Once that is complete now go through of using your downstairs romio the same process if you still have the second stock drive and start backing up all your settings and recordings etc using the regular 8tb romio, but with the 8tb hard drive which you can now wipe using western digital data lifeguard utility also don't forget to install on your computer tivo py as it can fix fragmented files in case you have issues transfering back. Once you have wiped the 8tb red drive go through the auto format and the other steps outlined above and the permanent rollback is complete and begin backing up and preserving everything from your 2tb drive from the other romio, once that is complete, remove the 8tb red drive from the romio,

now install in the 2tb romio the 500 gig drive rollback again but this time it is a permanent rollback and reinstall the purple drive you used to back up your your 8tb romio and once you have installed your new 8tb drive in the 8tb romio, now you can begin restoring everything to your first romio, and once complete you can wipe the one purple drive go through the process again and begin restoring your recordings to what was your 2 tb romio but now is also a 8tb romio using the red 8tb hard drive. Now once that is done you can breathe easy knowing your romios won't be subject to bad Hydra software patches anymore and the constant restarts once a week.

As for Comcast they have a cable card self activation site that you can use to update the data id's each time you change the hard drives, but that can take each time you it up to 4hrs to complete.

Hope that helps and remember you can if you like use your 8tb red drive for back ups in the future if you need it.


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I have Comcast also
> 
> step one is on your romio with a 2 tb hard drive is you need to purchase 2 8 tb hard drives I recomend purchasing purple drives that are labeled purz also do you have the stock hard drives for any of your romios if so you will need to 1st install the 500 gig drive in if you really have the 500 gig drive, and once you have purchased 2 new 8tb purple drives,
> 
> Next you need to install the 500 gig in your romio with the 2tb drive and first perform the rollback procedure on that device. Then remove the 500 gig drive, then install the new 8tb drive in let it auto format then remove and using mffs reformator hook up the 8tb hard drive to your computer let it reformat the drive then install back in to your 2tb romio and then begin the process of transfering all your recordings and reseting up all your streaming apps streaming movies etc, which now creates a back up and source drive of your 8tb romio downstairs as you can once again use the good old fashioned transfer a recording directly function.
> 
> Once that is complete and everything is setup on the 8tb drive on your romio that normally has a 2 tb drive. And your 8tb romio is backed up,.
> Now remove the 8tb drive from the romio you used to create a back and install back in it the 500 gig and reupgrade on that drive back into the hydra platform. Then reinstall the 2tb drive into the romio you used to back up your 8 tb romio,Once that is complete now go through of using your downstairs romio the same process if you still have the second stock drive and start backing up all your settings and recordings etc using the regular 8tb romio, but with the 8tb hard drive which you can now wipe using western digital data lifeguard utility also don't forget to install on your computer tivo py as it can fix fragmented files in case you have issues transfering back. Once you have wiped the 8tb red drive go through the auto format and the other steps outlined above and the permanent rollback is complete and begin backing up and preserving everything from your 2tb drive from the other romio, once that is complete, remove the 8tb red drive from the romio,
> 
> now install in the 2tb romio the 500 gig drive rollback again but this time it is a permanent rollback and reinstall the purple drive you used to back up your your 8tb romio and once you have installed your new 8tb drive in the 8tb romio, now you can begin restoring everything to your first romio, and once complete you can wipe the one purple drive go through the process again and begin restoring your recordings to what was your 2 tb romio but now is also a 8tb romio using the red 8tb hard drive. Now once that is done you can breathe easy knowing your romios won't be subject to bad Hydra software patches anymore and the constant restarts once a week.
> 
> As for Comcast they have a cable card self activation site that you can use to update the data id's each time you change the hard drives, but that can take each time you it up to 4hrs to complete.
> 
> Hope that helps and remember you can if you like use your 8tb red drive for back ups in the future if you need it.


One other thing I forgot to mention the reason why you need to install tivo py is in case a recording gets stuck, and won't transfer due to fragmentation in the file tivo py can fix that because it rearranges the file, but you will need to once you install tivo py is make sure in the settings that the decrypt file using tivo Libre is unchecked that way all the guide and program info transfers with the file into your computer, as tivo py is the only software program that can pull a recording from a tivo running hydra into a computer, and will allow a transfer back once the downgrade is done, kttmg is another one but I am not sure how it works. But I know with kttmg you can back up any one passes you might have.


----------



## pj1983

Jim1348 said:


> I haven't read all 30 pages here, but if I decide to downgrade, are the instructions on Page 1 still correct?


I wonder if something has changed with a recent TE4 update. I have a thrift store (eBay, perhaps) Roamio running TE4 v21.9.1. Executing the steps from page 1 results in a return to the "Repeat Guided Setup" menu choice before I could press "Select":

For the Roamio:
1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select *(OK, command accepted)*
2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), *(command accepted) *now press Rewind 2 times, *(immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding')* Now press Select (not Enter) *(didn't get to this step)*
3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun *(didn't get to this step)*​


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## gabrielstern

pj1983 said:


> I wonder if something has changed with a recent TE4 update. I have a thrift store (eBay, perhaps) Roamio running TE4 v21.9.1. Executing the steps from page 1 results in a return to the "Repeat Guided Setup" menu choice before I could press "Select":
> 
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select *(OK, command accepted)*
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), *(command accepted) *now press Rewind 2 times, *(immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding')* Now press Select (not Enter) *(didn't get to this step)*
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun *(didn't get to this step)*​


I did my rollbacks 2 months ago. I did help then pressed the repeat guided setup pressed thumbs down 2 times not 3, then pressed rewind twice, then select, and it worked.

Question did you back up your recordings, or did you not care


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I did my rollbacks 2 months ago. I did help then pressed the repeat guided setup pressed thumbs down 2 times not 3, then pressed rewind twice, then select, and it worked.
> 
> Question did you back up your recordings, or did you not care.
> 
> If you do you need to use tivo py,
> 
> Then the next thing to try is using a blank 1tb drive or 3 tb drive all less than 120 dollars, and I would get the reds or purple western digital drives,
> 
> Then let it auto format go though guided setup.
> 
> Then perform the rollback procedure.
> 
> I say this because it might be the hard drive and all the junk from tivo that is preventing you from rolling back your tivo.
> 
> I actaully when I did my rollbacks removed the hard drive in my romio and my bolts,
> And used a 3 tb red drive after I used western digital data life guard tools to do a full drive erase. And the rollback worked.
> 
> You could also remove the drive after you back up your recordings, and then do a full drive erase, then let it auto format in hydra, go through guided set up, then try the rollback procedure again and see if it works.


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## pj1983

gabrielstern said:


> I did my rollbacks 2 months ago. I did help then pressed the repeat guided setup pressed thumbs down 2 times not 3, then pressed rewind twice, then select, and it worked.
> 
> Question did you back up your recordings, or did you not care


I just threw in a spare 1TB drive I had on the bench so I wasn't concerned about recordings. I did get the rollback process to start after a couple of forced connects (which upgraded it to 21.10.1something), a CDE, then a fresh guided setup. However, it aborts the rollback after a minute or so. The error message claims that network connectivity might be to blame. I've run all the usual network tests and it passes without issue. I also moved it to a port on my gateway router, same problem with the rollback abort.

The only reason I can think of at this point for the error is that the unit doesn't have active service.


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## gabrielstern

pj1983 said:


> I just threw in a spare 1TB drive I had on the bench so I wasn't concerned about recordings. I did get the rollback process to start after a couple of forced connects (which upgraded it to 21.10.1something), a CDE, then a fresh guided setup. However, it aborts the rollback after a minute or so. The error message claims that network connectivity might be to blame. I've run all the usual network tests and it passes without issue. I also moved it to a port on my gateway router, same problem with the rollback abort.
> 
> The only reason I can think of at this point for the error is that the unit doesn't have active service.


Did you run a full hard drive erase on the 1tb drive, first and not a quick erase before attempting the rollback and did you check the account info screen that will say if the service is active, but romios can be rolled back, but romio Otas might be an issue not sure and vox bolts can not be rolled back.

Another thing to try if it still does not work is to purchase a new 1tb or 3tb western digital red drive, then attempt the rollback again.

If it were me I would go with the 3tb unless you wanted to go bigger and use mffs reformattor, but 6 and 8tb drives get considerably more expensive and are more worth it once you have completed successfully the rollback from hydra.

Me I keep a very specific red 3tb drive in case I need to rollback and do a full erase after I did.my rollbacks which involved a romio and 2 bolts.

Right now I have moved on to a much more complicated tivo project involving tivo py and cleaning up defragmented series 4 recordings ans a 6tb drive so I can pull all recordings from a 6tb green drive from my romio.

And back up to my series 4, then send back to a brand new 8tb drive in my romio, as I do weekly back ups for both of my bolts in case something goes wrong.

That's the other thing about older recordings from 2013 and romios when they first came out and the series 4, in the series 4s especially on the 500 gig drives the recordings got quickly very fragmented.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Did you run a full hard drive erase on the 1tb drive, first and not a quick erase before attempting the rollback and did you check the account info screen that will say if the service is active, but romios can be rolled back, but romio Otas might be an issue not sure and vox bolts can not be rolled back.
> 
> Another thing to try if it still does not work is to purchase a new 1tb or 3tb western digital red drive, then attempt the rollback again.
> 
> If it were me I would go with the 3tb unless you wanted to go bigger and use mffs reformattor, but 6 and 8tb drives get considerably more expensive and are more worth it once you have completed successfully the rollback from hydra.
> 
> Me I keep a very specific red 3tb drive in case I need to rollback and do a full erase after I did.my rollbacks which involved a romio and 2 bolts.
> 
> Right now I have moved on to a much more complicated tivo project involving tivo py and cleaning up defragmented series 4 recordings ans a 6tb drive so I can pull all recordings from a 6tb green drive from my romio.
> 
> And back up to my series 4, then send back to a brand new 8tb drive in my romio, as I do weekly back ups for both of my bolts in case something goes wrong.
> 
> That's the other thing about older recordings from 2013 and romios when they first came out and the series 4, in the series 4s especially on the 500 gig drives the recordings got quickly very fragmented.


Also when tivos are running Hydra recordings more easily become fragmented which is bad.


----------



## mom2jel

pj1983 said:


> I wonder if something has changed with a recent TE4 update. I have a thrift store (eBay, perhaps) Roamio running TE4 v21.9.1. Executing the steps from page 1 results in a return to the "Repeat Guided Setup" menu choice before I could press "Select":
> 
> For the Roamio:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select *(OK, command accepted)*
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), *(command accepted) *now press Rewind 2 times, *(immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding')* Now press Select (not Enter) *(didn't get to this step)*
> 3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun *(didn't get to this step)*​


Currently experiencing this.
I joined a TiVo Beta program and realized that the new interface doesn't allow any "back" or previous screen options (once you make a choice and move to a screen, you need to hit the TiVo button and start over on the menu screen again).
I requested that my box be removed from the Beta program last week. I have tried "Reset to Defaults/Clear & Delete Everything" several times; tried the directions here and end up with the same effing program (version 21.10.2v13-846-6-846)

Any idea's how to get back the standard menu?


----------



## gabrielstern

mom2jel said:


> Currently experiencing this.
> I joined a TiVo Beta program and realized that the new interface doesn't allow any "back" or previous screen options (once you make a choice and move to a screen, you need to hit the TiVo button and start over on the menu screen again).
> I requested that my box be removed from the Beta program last week. I have tried "Reset to Defaults/Clear & Delete Everything" several times; tried the directions here and end up with the same effing program (version 21.10.2v13-846-6-846)
> 
> Any idea's how to get back the standard menu?


I know the software is built into the motherboard with the romios and newer tivos,

first I would get all recordings transfered into a computer you can do that with tivo py, not sure if kttmg will allow a transfer into a computer on tivos running te4.

Next after that step is completed and you have backed up all one passes using kttmg and wrote down all movies and tivo shows that are streaming.

Then you need to purchase a new western digital red or purple drive,

I recomend getting a 3tb size drive which the romio will auto format up to that size.

Then after going through the process of guided setup again then go attempt the rollback procedure.

One other thing the clear and delete cycle and rolling back often will not work if you installed a hard drive bigger than a 3tb drive in your romio such as a 4tb 6tb or 8tb drive reformatted using mffs reformator.

That's why I recomend using a brand new or stock hard drive that's been completely erased in a 3 tb or smaller size to perform any rollback procedures.

You are going to lose all settings and recordings anyway, if you intend the rollback to be permanent.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I know the software is built into the motherboard with the romios and newer tivos,
> 
> first I would get all recordings transfered into a computer you can do that with tivo py, not sure if kttmg will allow a transfer into a computer on tivos running te4.
> 
> Next after that step is completed and you have backed up all one passes using kttmg and wrote down all movies and tivo shows that are streaming.
> 
> Then you need to purchase a new western digital red or purple drive,
> 
> I recomend getting a 3tb size drive which the romio will auto format up to that size.
> 
> Then after going through the process of guided setup again then go attempt the rollback procedure.
> 
> One other thing the clear and delete cycle and rolling back often will not work if you installed a hard drive bigger than a 3tb drive in your romio such as a 4tb 6tb or 8tb drive reformatted using mffs reformator.
> 
> That's why I recomend using a brand new or stock hard drive that's been completely erased in a 3 tb or smaller size to perform any rollback procedures.
> 
> You are going to lose all settings and recordings anyway, if you intend the rollback to be permanent.


I see you got it used, so that helps you can skip the backing up recordings then,

What romio model is it

Is it a pro, plus or regular romio.

Either way if it is a hard drive 3 tbs and under you have 2 options.

You can purchase a new hard drive, or you after removing the drive download and run the western digital data lifeguard utilities with a quick or full drive erase,

If the full drive erase won't work then you need to format the drive in windows after doing a quick erase and use a hard drive bleacher program like Norton utilities then run the full drive erase again.

Then reinstall hard drive in the romio let it auto format go through guided setup then perform the rollback procedure.

Tivos can be very finicky if the sectors in the hard drive don't have clean sectors.

I also know that te4 causes a lot of sector wear in the hard drives.

But you basically need to zero out all sectors out on the hard drive and bleach the hard drive before you can attempt the rollback procedure.

In my case I zeroed out all my sectors on a special wd red drive that I used specifically to roll back my romio and my one bolt plus,

And my upstairs bolt.

I had to do it this way because I knew it would not work on the 6tb drive I installed in my romio and the same with my one bolt.


----------



## mom2jel

Just to be clear... currently when I try the rollback, my experience is the same as pj1983 said:
1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select *(command accepted)*
2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), *(command accepted) *now press Rewind 2 times, *(immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding')* (*screen just refreshes and nothing else happens)*

Installing a new WD Purple 1TB-3TB hard drive, letting my Roamio format it, then trying the rollback is supposed to work?


----------



## gabrielstern

mom2jel said:


> Just to be clear... currently when I try the rollback, my experience is the same as pj1983 said:
> 1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select *(command accepted)*
> 2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), *(command accepted) *now press Rewind 2 times, *(immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding')* (*screen just refreshes and nothing else happens)*
> 
> Installing a new WD Purple 1TB-3TB hard drive, letting my Roamio format it, then trying the rollback is supposed to work?


It should you can use a red drive also but not the red plus.

I have noticed lately that my tivos have acted very finicky,

One of the reasons I downgraded was because in te4 it was when the tivo was in standby the hard drive was not cooling down to a Luke warm tempeture.

Another reason was the software updates was slowing down the system and making my tivos act finicky.

Hydra ruined my sata power port in my one tivo bolt.

I was having trouble rolling that back, at first. As my desktop drive would not power up.

I had to plug my stock drive back in just to get that device rolled back.

But after that the power sata port would not work period. I ended up solving the issue by using the power sata from my USB adapter and powering it from an electrical outlet, to my 8tb hard drive.

Than running a short data sata cable into the motherboard and connecting to my 8tb hard drive and things work fine now, until I can send the unit off to weakknees at some point to repair the power sata port.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> It should you can use a red drive also but not the red plus.
> 
> I have noticed lately that my tivos have acted very finicky,
> 
> One of the reasons I downgraded was because in te4 it was when the tivo was in standby the hard drive was not cooling down to a Luke warm tempeture.
> 
> Another reason was the software updates was slowing down the system and making my tivos act finicky.
> 
> Hydra ruined my sata power port in my one tivo bolt.
> 
> I was having trouble rolling that back, at first. As my desktop drive would not power up.
> 
> I had to plug my stock drive back in just to get that device rolled back.
> 
> But after that the power sata port would not work period. I ended up solving the issue by using the power sata from my USB adapter and powering it from an electrical outlet, to my 8tb hard drive.
> 
> Than running a short data sata cable into the motherboard and connecting to my 8tb hard drive and things work fine now, until I can send the unit off to weakknees at some point to repair the power sata port.


The reason I am mentioning this is because with hydra or te4 it now runs a hard drive check, and that is part of what is causing the issues such as frying out power sata ports in tivo bolts and newer. And causing issues with not bieng able to rollback.

You have to remember if the hard drive is old that can cause issues.

The main thing is you need to perform the rollback immediately after coming through guided setup.

Once you get that complete then you can decide things like installing a 4 6 or 8tb red or purple drive that has been reformatted using mffs reformator also available in the tivo community. And things should then go more smoothly.


----------



## ckgoodwin

I have a Roamio Pro with stock HD (high mileage/tons of recordings) that is refusing to roll-back as other have reported here. I follow all the outlined steps but after pressing rewind twice it immediately goes to the black arrow screen - then after a few second reverts to the guided setup options.

Based on the latest posts, it seems folks are attributing this to a fragmented or otherwise hosed up HD - is that correct? How was that conclusion reached?

I don't care about my recordings/OPs and am totally comfortable pulling the drive (been hacking on TiVos since DirecTV days) and giving it a low level reformatting but want to confirm if that is truly a solution to the "won't roll-back" issue...

Appreciate any feedback here...


----------



## mom2jel

I did a online chat with TiVo customer service several weeks ago; as soon as I mentioned this forum and that a few others had the same problem, they told me I needed to email customer service instead as it sounds like a software problem.
I emailed customer service, got their automated reply that they had received it... and haven't heard anything since.
I also don't care about my current recordings, I just want to get back to the old format. If/when I ever hear from TiVo, I'll post here.


----------



## gabrielstern

ckgoodwin said:


> I have a Roamio Pro with stock HD (high mileage/tons of recordings) that is refusing to roll-back as other have reported here. I follow all the outlined steps but after pressing rewind twice it immediately goes to the black arrow screen - then after a few second reverts to the guided setup options.
> 
> Based on the latest posts, it seems folks are attributing this to a fragmented or otherwise hosed up HD - is that correct? How was that conclusion reached?
> 
> I don't care about my recordings/OPs and am totally comfortable pulling the drive (been hacking on TiVos since DirecTV days) and giving it a low level reformatting but want to confirm if that is truly a solution to the "won't roll-back" issue...
> 
> Appreciate any feedback here...


I also have a romio pro but I recomend pulling the recordings using tivo py or kttmg first. Off of the drive and the romio pros came with a 3tb western digital green drive which are no longer made. So you have 2 options here. After pulling the recordings.
1 replace with a 3tb red plus drive or purple drive that's brand new.

Or 2 go with a 6tb or 8tb red plus or purple drive and see forum mffs reformator, and follow instructions in that post after sucessfully rolling back.

But I have a question first do you have any other hard drives lying around that are unused if so you can try using them just if they are 3tb and under and let them auto format then try performing the rollback procedure or if you have a staples or a best buy purchase a blue laptop size drive 1tb drive lay it gently on top of the stock drive gently with the case off let it auto format go through guided setup and then perform the roll back procedure again, and hopefully it works, then go through what I outlined above.

I am just glad I got my permanent rollback done in January.

The issue I think appears to be heat related on the drives with the hydra updates, and just for a for warning te3 seems to be doing some of that also so you might want to consider installing hard drive heat sinks on the new permanent hard drive if it will fit between the screw spaces for the hard drive.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I also have a romio pro but I recomend pulling the recordings using tivo py or kttmg first. Off of the drive and the romio pros came with a 3tb western digital green drive which are no longer made. So you have 2 options here. After pulling the recordings.
> 1 replace with a 3tb red plus drive or purple drive that's brand new.
> 
> Or 2 go with a 6tb or 8tb red plus or purple drive and see forum mffs reformator, and follow instructions in that post after sucessfully rolling back.
> 
> But I have a question first do you have any other hard drives lying around that are unused if so you can try using them just if they are 3tb and under and let them auto format then try performing the rollback procedure or if you have a staples or a best buy purchase a blue laptop size drive 1tb drive lay it gently on top of the stock drive gently with the case off let it auto format go through guided setup and then perform the roll back procedure again, and hopefully it works, then go through what I outlined above.
> 
> I am just glad I got my permanent rollback done in January.
> 
> The issue I think appears to be heat related on the drives with the hydra updates, and just for a for warning te3 seems to be doing some of that also so you might want to consider installing hard drive heat sinks on the new permanent hard drive if it will fit between the screw spaces for the hard drive.


I also have been toying with tivos since 2015 I bought my series 4 in March 2013 and then in September 2013 bought my romio pro brand new but in 2015 did my first bigger hard drive first in my series 4 using jmfs then 2 months later with a 6tb green drive in my romio pro using mffs reformator I have also used mffs reformator for my bolts.

In my case with the romio I regretted upgrading to hydra.

I have a question for you on your romio pro are you using the stock 3 tb or an expanded drive of 4tbs or greater that has been reformated using mffs reformator.

If the later is the case you need to put the stock drive back in then perform the rollback procedure cd and e and rollbacks will not work on hard drives bigger than 3tbs in romios or bolts trust me I tried that in my romio once.

Hope that helps.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I also have been toying with tivos since 2015 I bought my series 4 in March 2013 and then in September 2013 bought my romio pro brand new but in 2015 did my first bigger hard drive first in my series 4 using jmfs then 2 months later with a 6tb green drive in my romio pro using mffs reformator I have also used mffs reformator for my bolts.
> 
> In my case with the romio I regretted upgrading to hydra.
> 
> I have a question for you on your romio pro are you using the stock 3 tb or an expanded drive of 4tbs or greater that has been reformated using mffs reformator.
> 
> If the later is the case you need to put the stock drive back in then perform the rollback procedure cd and e and rollbacks will not work on hard drives bigger than 3tbs in romios or bolts trust me I tried that in my romio once.
> 
> Hope that helps.


You could also try a cd and e or clear and delete everything cycle with the stock hard drive in go through guided setup then try the rollback procedure again, then after choosing a new hard drive then install it in the tivo.


----------



## ckgoodwin

Correction, the DVR in question is a Roamio Plus running the OEM 1TB drive. And again, I don't care about the recordings or one-passes - I already tried a C&DE so all recordings are gone already - but roll back still does not work. I have been running this box in stock configuration since 2013 with no over-heating or other issues. Mostly looking for some clarification on why formatting the HD would resolve the issue with not being able to roll back...


----------



## mom2jel

I got a WD Purple (1TB) for my Roamio OTA (original 500GB); put it in and it automatically installed the new menu/guide!  I'm wanting to rollback to the old format.
I also tried the rollback method (Help/Repeat Guided/2x thumb down/2x rewind) and it brings me back to the 'Reset to Defaults' menu.

Any other ideas?


----------



## pl1

mom2jel said:


> I got a WD Purple (1TB) for my Roamio OTA (original 500GB); put it in and it automatically installed the new menu/guide!  I'm wanting to rollback to the old format.
> I also tried the rollback method (Help/Repeat Guided/2x thumb down/2x rewind) and it brings me back to the 'Reset to Defaults' menu.Any other ideas?


One possibility is that you might need to toggle your remote to IR mode (or use an old TiVo IR remote).
Tivo Customer Support Community


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## mom2jel

I tried an older remote, plus a newer remote; neither made a difference with downgrading.

I called and spoke to Tivo tech support, guy insisted that my 85% wifi signal (Network Status) was too weak to downgrade (yeah, right). He wanted me to install the Tivo to the modem via ethernet... which I did and of course it made no difference, I still could not downgrade.
I replied back to Tivo support via my account Support ticket, haven't heard back from them in 3 days. 

In the meantime, I bought a used, but slightly newer (March 2016) Roamio OTA 1TB and was able to roll that back once I cleared and deleted the previous owners info/recordings. Once it rebooted and I went through the Guided Setup, it upgraded itself and rebooted. Upon reboot I had to do the Guided Setup again, and then was able to downgrade (and another Guided Setup again, lol). And BTW, this was done with a "77% Network Status".

I cracked open the case and tried to install my original (February 2015) Roamio 500GB hard drive that wouldn't downgrade into the newer Roamio. The Tivo box recognized that the hard drive had newer software and I got a red screen about calling Tivo to downgrade my (software?). Put the 500GB back in the 2/15 machine and did a 'Clear and Delete Everything'; put that back in to the 3/16 box and got the same red screen. Could not click out of the red screen. (Repeated this same situation with the new WD Purple 1TB HD (see my April 16th post) I had with same results.)

So, it seems that the software/firmware version is stored on the motherboard. Do you think if I removed the button battery overnight will make a difference?


----------



## ggieseke

mom2jel said:


> So, it seems that the software/firmware version is stored on the motherboard. Do you think if I removed the button battery overnight will make a difference?


The OS on the motherboard is stored in NAND memory, which doesn't require any power.


----------



## mom2jel

UPDATE - finally got the Roamio to downgrade to Quattro! 
and I was able to accomplish it via their Support ticket in my account (I hate sitting on the phone with support people).

This is what I sent to them (after the 3rd time of them telling me the downgrade process):
_"I have attempted the backdoor downgrade multiple times without success. 
The TiVo looks to be running a hybrid HYDRA-MIRA software, instead of just HYDRA that might be the problem:
Date of manufacture: 2/2015 (500GB)
Software: 21.10.2.v13-846-6-846
TSN: 846-0001-xxxx-xxxx
HD menu software version: b-hydra-mira-4-11/2021.02.22-2053
HD menu client core version: b-clientcore-mira-4-11/2021.02.22-0800
Is it possible to push either the Quattro or straight Hydra software to my Tivo box TSN: 846-001-xxxx-xxxx?"_

Tivo tech support emailed me:
_Please restart your box and reattempt the backdoor code provided on our previous email sent to you. If all troubleshooting steps have been performed and the issue persists, proceed with Technical Phone Customer Support at 877-367-8486, for more troubleshooting. 
Next support should know where we started and left off using case number above.
To respond to this email, please log into tivo.com/myaccount, go to the My Support tab on the left, and select Case No.: 000000_

I manually did a Network Update and immediately (without restarting the box) tried the backdoor downgrade - and it worked!

I did this with my original 500GB HD, it won't take the newer 1TB HD because the Tivo now has Quattro and the 1TB had the Hydra-Mira. So now I get to figure out how to clear and format the 1TB to try that over again (oh, joy ). ETA: hooked up the HD with my USB adapter, and did a clean/partition/format via DiskPart (DOS).
The (2016 replacement) fan started screeching upon startup, so I tore that apart to oil it for the time being while I order another replacement fan.
Such fun 

Thanks all for the help, and I hope that this also helps others looking here!


----------



## mom2jel

Another update: When I installed the 1TB HD into my older Roamio (that had a 500GB HD), the TiVo unit kept restarting itself, multiple times a day. Sometimes it would work for an hour or so, then just randomly reboot.
After some searching here, there was mention that the larger HD needed a bigger/better power supply. I orderd a 3A from Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B073WSWT34/ $13) and that actually did the trick. The Roamio is now happily playing along with no reboots.


----------



## gabrielstern

mom2jel said:


> Another update: When I installed the 1TB HD into my older Roamio (that had a 500GB HD), the TiVo unit kept restarting itself, multiple times a day. Sometimes it would work for an hour or so, then just randomly reboot.
> After some searching here, there was mention that the larger HD needed a bigger/better power supply. I orderd a 3A from Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B073WSWT34/ $13) and that actually did the trick. The Roamio is now happily playing along with no reboots.


That's odd but if it works great.

But the drive in romios are 3.5 desktop drives.

Mine is a romio pro that came stock with a 3tb drive.

But I put in a 6tb first and used mffs reformator which has a forum also and had no issues I have upgraded recently to an 8tb purple drive and also have had no issues.
But to run them I will have to have an open case and install brackets and run a 20 m fan to keep hard drive cool.


----------



## bareyb

TiVo CS rep just told me that I'd have to re-pair my cable card if I install TE4 and then try to roll back to TE3. Are we _sure_ you don't need to re-pair cable card if we roll back?

I can't imagine going through that nightmare again, assuming Comcast would even do it now since they aren't technically supporting Cable Cards anymore...

Question: How BAD is TE4? Are people still hating it? My Roamio's audio isn't working well with our new TV and thinking maybe using a Mini would solve the HDMI problems. Unfortunately, you have to "upgrade" to TE4 to make it work...


----------



## lhvetinari

bareyb said:


> TiVo CS rep just told me that I'd have to re-pair my cable card if I install TE4 and then try to roll back to TE3. Are we _sure_ you don't need to re-pair cable card if we roll back?
> 
> I can't imagine going through that nightmare again, assuming Comcast would even do it now since they aren't technically supporting Cable Cards anymore...


Shouldn't need to. Only things that trigger re-pairing, normally, is swapping the card to new hardware, or (for Motorola/Arris systems only) things that can change the Data ID, the most common of which is replacing the hard drive. Resetting the OS did not un-pair the CC in my experience, on Spectrum Cisco/SA and Comcast Moto/Arris systems.


----------



## bareyb

lhvetinari said:


> Shouldn't need to. Only things that trigger re-pairing, normally, is swapping the card to new hardware, or (for Motorola/Arris systems only) things that can change the Data ID, the most common of which is replacing the hard drive. Resetting the OS did not un-pair the CC in my experience, on Spectrum Cisco/SA and Comcast Moto/Arris systems.


Thanks. I want to get a Mini Lux, but not sure it's worth doing if I have to move to TE4. I have an older Roamio Pro and it sounds like TE4 doesn't work well with those.


----------



## lhvetinari

bareyb said:


> Thanks. I want to get a Mini Lux, but not sure it's worth doing if I have to move to TE4. I have an older Roamio Pro and it sounds like TE4 doesn't work well with those.


Lux mini is just an A95 with a new remote. It'll work fine with a TE3 system, with the caveat that the backlit remote will not pair for bluetooth, it'll be IR only. But if you really need RF, you can pair a Roamio remote to it and that should work.


----------



## bareyb

lhvetinari said:


> Lux mini is just an A95 with a new remote. It'll work fine with a TE3 system, with the caveat that the backlit remote will not pair for bluetooth, it'll be IR only. But if you really need RF, you can pair a Roamio remote to it and that should work.


Seriously? It will plug and play with my Roamio on TE3? I am fine with IR. I thought it said the update was required... and that's kind of a deal breaker.


----------



## lhvetinari

bareyb said:


> Seriously? It will plug and play with my Roamio on TE3? I am fine with IR. I thought it said the update was required... and that's kind of a deal breaker.


Yeah, connect it and go through Guided Setup. When it sees the Roamio on the old OS, it will trigger the downgrade. When it's done, run through GS again and you're home free.

There were downgrade issues that affected old Minis but that has been resolved for quite some time.


----------



## bareyb

lhvetinari said:


> Yeah, connect it and go through Guided Setup. *When it sees the Roamio on the old OS, it will trigger the downgrade. When it's done, run through GS again and you're home free.*
> 
> There were downgrade issues that affected old Minis but that has been resolved for quite some time.


It will downgrade the software on the Mini to match TE3 UI on the Roamio and leave the Roamio on TE3 untouched? 

ETA: Just verified this with TiVo CS Chat. No upgrade to TE4 needed for Mini Lux to work. I'm very hopeful. Appreciate the help @lhvetinari


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> TiVo CS rep just told me that I'd have to re-pair my cable card if I install TE4 and then try to roll back to TE3. Are we _sure_ you don't need to re-pair cable card if we roll back?
> 
> I can't imagine going through that nightmare again, assuming Comcast would even do it now since they aren't technically supporting Cable Cards anymore...
> 
> Question: How BAD is TE4? Are people still hating it? My Roamio's audio isn't working well with our new TV and thinking maybe using a Mini would solve the HDMI problems. Unfortunately, you have to "upgrade" to TE4 to make it work...


Comcast is still supporting cable cards.
And you don't need to go to hydra.

Try replacing the hdmi cable if your hdmi cable is really old and your new TV is a 4k. You need to purchase a new hdmi cable walmart has them at 18 gigs per second for around 12 dollars and they have 8k cables for around 25 dollars. But I recomend the ohn gold plated 4k hdmi cables. That should help with the audio issues.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> Comcast is still supporting cable cards.
> And you don't need to go to hydra.
> 
> Try replacing the hdmi cable if your hdmi cable is really old and your new TV is a 4k. You need to purchase a new hdmi cable walmart has them at 18 gigs per second for around 12 dollars and they have 8k cables for around 25 dollars. But I recomend the ohn gold plated 4k hdmi cables. That should help with the audio issues.


Tried two different HDMI Cables and both had the same problem. Even tried swapping the Living Room TiVo out for the bedroom TiVo and same problem on both boxes.

Called TiVo CS this morning and they said to turn OFF Dolby Digital on the TiVos and they think that may fix it. Says it's a known issue with older TiVos on new TVS. I guess we'll see. The TiVo mini will be here tomorrow. Hopefully the newer HDMI 2.0 on those is a little more compatible with a new TV.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Comcast is still supporting cable cards.
> And you don't need to go to hydra.
> 
> Try replacing the hdmi cable if your hdmi cable is really old and your new TV is a 4k. You need to purchase a new hdmi cable walmart has them at 18 gigs per second for around 12 dollars and they have 8k cables for around 25 dollars. But I recomend the ohn gold plated 4k hdmi cables. That should help with the audio issues.


Te4 is bad especially for Romios i ran it for 3 years and at first it was okay but gradually got worse even for my bolts.

Te4 will also harm your hard drives even the stock ones as in standby it doesn't power down the hard drives like te3 does with the romios and bolts.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> Te4 is bad especially for Romios i ran it for 3 years and at first it was okay but gradually got worse even for my bolts.
> 
> Te4 will also harm your hard drives even the stock ones as in standby it doesn't power down the hard drives like te3 does with the romios and bolts.


Yeah. I'm avoiding TE4 like the plague. I hear it's terrible. Thankfully you can apparently hook up a mini without having to upgrade to TE4 on the TiVo.


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> Tried two different HDMI Cables and both had the same problem. Even tried swapping the Living Room TiVo out for the bedroom TiVo and same problem on both boxes.
> 
> Called TiVo CS this morning and they said to turn OFF Dolby Digital on the TiVos and they think that may fix it. Says it's a known issue with older TiVos on new TVS. I guess we'll see. The TiVo mini will be here tomorrow. Hopefully the newer HDMI 2.0 on those is a little more compatible with a new TV.


It's not Dolby digital on the tivo box if you are referring to the settings under audio.

With the option for pcm.

Mine is set to Dolby digital and is fine.

You could try adding a sound bar system.

Also if your tivi is a 4k.

Try going into settings in your tivo and set the video to 1080p 60p

And remove the auto setting.

And also check the box for 24p pass through sometimes if you unplug the tivo and the restart it it changes the video settings to auto which can also effect the audio.

But you want it on Dolby digital.

Even if you are not connected to a receiver as the tivo will automatically output the audio at pcm if you are using the tivi speakers.

Also check the audio settings in your tivi.

On my old Samsung I had to set it to the music setting to make the audio work at the optimum levels.

In other words it probably is not the tivo.

But the audio settings on your new tivi.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> It's not Dolby digital on the tivo box if you are referring to the settings under audio.
> 
> With the option for pcm.
> 
> Mine is set to Dolby digital and is fine.
> 
> You could try adding a sound bar system.
> 
> Also if your tivi is a 4k.
> 
> Try going into settings in your tivo and set the video to 1080p 60p
> 
> And remove the auto setting.
> 
> And also check the box for 24p pass through sometimes if you unplug the tivo and the restart it it changes the video settings to auto which can also effect the audio.
> 
> But you want it on Dolby digital.
> 
> Even if you are not connected to a receiver as the tivo will automatically output the audio at pcm if you are using the tivi speakers.
> 
> Also check the audio settings in your tivi.
> 
> On my old Samsung I had to set it to the music setting to make the audio work at the optimum levels.
> 
> In other words it probably is not the tivo.
> 
> But the audio settings on your new tivi.


Try adjusting the audio settings on your tivi with the tivo running.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> It's not Dolby digital on the tivo box if you are referring to the settings under audio.
> 
> With the option for pcm.
> 
> Mine is set to Dolby digital and is fine.
> 
> You could try adding a sound bar system.
> 
> Also if your tivi is a 4k.
> 
> Try going into settings in your tivo and set the video to 1080p 60p
> 
> And remove the auto setting.
> 
> And also check the box for 24p pass through sometimes if you unplug the tivo and the restart it it changes the video settings to auto which can also effect the audio.
> 
> But you want it on Dolby digital.
> 
> Even if you are not connected to a receiver as the tivo will automatically output the audio at pcm if you are using the tivi speakers.
> 
> Also check the audio settings in your tivi.
> 
> On my old Samsung I had to set it to the music setting to make the audio work at the optimum levels.
> 
> In other words it probably is not the tivo.
> 
> But the audio settings on your new tivi.


Hey thanks! I'll take any advice I can get. There's not really any audio settings to change on my TV that I can find, other than to choose whether you want the TV to use it's own speaker as a center channel (powered by an AVR) or for full range audio.

New TV is a 4k Sony A9. I will try setting the TiVo to 1080P fixed though. Haven't tried that yet. FWIW so far, no glitches since I turned Dolby OFF in the TiVo/Audio Video settings. Not sure if that's going to work, but that's what TiVo CS told me to do and I'm willing to try anything at this point to not have to give up my beloved TiVo. Even bought a TiVo Mini Lux today to see if THAT will play nicer with the new TV. The only thing I know for sure so far, is it's not the Cable.


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> Yeah. I'm avoiding TE4 like the plague. I hear it's terrible. Thankfully you can apparently hook up a mini without having to upgrade to TE4 on the TiVo.


Correct minis have no software in them they run based off the software in the tivo dvr it's connected to.

I used a mini for 9 months until 2014 first with a series 4 and then my romio pro but after a software update it started acting funny so I brought back out my series 4 instead. And still use it in addition to my 2 bolts and romios.

Avoid any tivos passed the first bolts which are the non vox bolts. And definitely avoid the tivo edges.

If you ever want to get replacements for your tivos or add tivos go to the weaknees website.

They sell refurbished tivos that include lifetime service subscriptions in the price.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Correct minis have no software in them they run based off the software in the tivo dvr it's connected to.
> 
> I used a mini for 9 months until 2014 first with a series 4 and then my romio pro but after a software update it started acting funny so I brought back out my series 4 instead. And still use it in addition to my 2 bolts and romios.
> 
> Avoid any tivos passed the first bolts which are the non vox bolts. And definitely avoid the tivo edges.
> 
> If you ever want to get replacements for your tivos or add tivos go to the weaknees website.
> 
> They sell refurbished tivos that include lifetime service subscriptions in the price.


So just like I thought a 4k.

You can turn the Dolby digital back on in your tivo.

Try going into menu settings on your tivi and try setting it to full range.

And if there is a loudness button try activating that.

Also worst case scenario you can add a soundbar for your tivi.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> If you ever want to get replacements for your tivos or add tivos go to the weaknees website.
> 
> They sell refurbished tivos that include lifetime service subscriptions in the price.


My only concern there is having to deal with getting the cable card paired with Comcast. That's never been an easy or pleasant (or quick) experience.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> So just like I thought a 4k.
> 
> You can turn the Dolby digital back on in your tivo.
> 
> Try going into menu settings on your tivi and try setting it to full range.
> 
> And if there is a loudness button try activating that.
> 
> Also worst case scenario you can add a soundbar for your tivi.


This really isn't about getting the TiVo to play through an external set of speakers or a receiver. Just want to be able to use it to watch TV shows using the speaker in the TV. As it is, I can't get through more than an hour or so before the Audio goes nuts and gets out of sync and all garbled sounding. The only way to fix it, is to toggle inputs on the TV. That fixes it for a while but it always comes back. So far.. I haven't given up yet.


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> My only concern there is having to deal with getting the cable card paired with Comcast. That's never been an easy or pleasant (or quick) experience.


You can leave the tivi in 4k.

Another option is you could order a bolt plus from weaknees that has support for 4k.

Or try the mini

The reason why I say leave the 4k setting alone on your ti vi is because it's going to automatically switch to what ever the tivo is outputting.

It's the audio settings in your tivi you need to make sure is optimized not the video.

And the tivo dvr is where you need to take it out of the auto picture format setting.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> You can leave the tivi in 4k.
> 
> Another option is you could order a bolt plus from weaknees that has support for 4k.
> 
> Or try the mini
> 
> The reason why I say leave the 4k setting alone on your ti vi is because it's going to automatically switch to what ever the tivo is outputting.
> 
> It's the audio settings in your tivi you need to make sure is optimized not the video.
> 
> And the tivo dvr is where you need to take it out of the auto picture format setting.


No need to re pair the cable card.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> No need to re pair the cable card.


You do if you buy a new TiVo from Weaknees.


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> This really isn't about getting the TiVo to play through an external set of speakers or a receiver. Just want to be able to use it to watch TV shows using the speaker in the TV. As it is, I can't get through more than an hour or so before the Audio goes nuts and gets out of sync and all garbled sounding. The only way to fix it, is to toggle inputs on the TV. That fixes it for a while but it always comes back. So far.. I haven't given up yet.


It's the tivi and how it interacts with the tivo

Remember romios came out before 4k tivis.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> It's the tivi and how it interacts with the tivo
> 
> Remember romios came out before 4k tivis.


Yep. And there's the rub. Seems the old girl doesn't play nice with new TV sets. I've checked all the settings on my TV and there's nothing to adjust in regard to the sound coming in. Unless you know something I don't, I'm not sure what to adjust or change on it. I still have hope for the Mini if the fixes we tried today don't work. So far it's been a couple of hours and the problem has not returned yet. Fingers crossed...


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> You do if you buy a new TiVo from Weaknees.


True but it's not that difficult to get it repaired.

Since you mentioned you have Comcast which I also have you go to the cable card pairing screen call the number and say I am having trouble with my tivi get to a rep give them the serial card number host ID and data ID.

Matter of fact Comcast does not charge anymore for more than one cable card.

So if you have another tivi that's older you can move the romio to that tivi.

Order a bolt plus go to a Comcast service center and pick up a second cable card. Without extra charges.

And the problem would be solved as bolts have 4k support.

Trust me I have 4 cable cards now and since December I don't pay extra anymore for having more than one cable card.

And I have used Comcast for years.

And have always used my own equipment even if Comcast does not like.

And that includes modems.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> True but it's not that difficult to get it repaired.
> 
> Since you mentioned you have Comcast which I also have you go to the cable card pairing screen call the number and say I am having trouble with my tivi get to a rep give them the serial card number host ID and data ID.
> 
> Matter of fact Comcast does not charge anymore for more than one cable card.
> 
> So if you have another tivi that's older you can move the romio to that tivi.
> 
> Order a bolt plus go to a Comcast service center and pick up a second cable card. Without extra charges.
> 
> And the problem would be solved as bolts have 4k support.
> 
> Trust me I have 4 cable cards now and since December I don't pay extra anymore for having more than one cable card.
> 
> And I have used Comcast for years.
> 
> And have always used my own equipment even if Comcast does not like.
> 
> And that includes modems.


I've not been so lucky with Comcast as you have been. Often takes multiple DAYS to get it working right. Never had it go smoothly and I've probably had 8 TiVo boxes over the years.

Still... They are selling lifetimed Bolts on Weaknees for 299 bucks. If all else fails I can see me giving that shot. I truly love TiVo and would hate to have to give it up.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> True but it's not that difficult to get it repaired.
> 
> Since you mentioned you have Comcast which I also have you go to the cable card pairing screen call the number and say I am having trouble with my tivi get to a rep give them the serial card number host ID and data ID.
> 
> Matter of fact Comcast does not charge anymore for more than one cable card.
> 
> So if you have another tivi that's older you can move the romio to that tivi.
> 
> Order a bolt plus go to a Comcast service center and pick up a second cable card. Without extra charges.
> 
> And the problem would be solved as bolts have 4k support.
> 
> Trust me I have 4 cable cards now and since December I don't pay extra anymore for having more than one cable card.
> 
> And I have used Comcast for years.
> 
> And have always used my own equipment even if Comcast does not like.
> 
> And that includes modems.


Minis are not really useful anymore with Comcast since they no longer charge for more than one cable card.

You are better off using the weaknees site and ordering a refurbished non vox bolt plus.

And calling Comcast and having them send you out an additional cable card.

Since it does not cost extra anymore then pair it to a new tivo and you can keep using your romio on another tivi that does not give you issues.


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> I've not been so lucky with Comcast as you have been. Often takes multiple DAYS to get it working right. Never had it go smoothly and I've probably had 8 TiVo boxes over the years.
> 
> Still... They are selling lifetimed Bolts on Weaknees for 299 bucks. If all else fails I can see me giving that shot. I truly love TiVo and would hate to have to give it up.


If it is the non vox bolt plus with 6 tuners order it.

The vox ones have te4 pre-installed and can't be reverted to te3.


----------



## bareyb

gabrielstern said:


> If it is the non vox bolt plus with 6 tuners order it.
> 
> The vox ones have te4 pre-installed and can't be reverted to te3.


Good advice. I'll definitely make sure I get one of the non vox units if I decide to go that route. I'd prefer to just get what I already have working of course.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> If it is the non vox bolt plus with 6 tuners order it.
> 
> The vox ones have te4 pre-installed and can't be reverted to te3.


I am just tech savvy I worked in a call center environment and was even a supervisor for a little while so I know how to get things done.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> I am just tech savvy I worked in a call center environment and was even a supervisor for a little while so I know how to get things done.


Your romio is not broken its just having a conflict with that tivi because it is a 4k tivi.

You can always use that on another tivi that it still works on without issues.

And think of it this way you would have an 3 tbs of hard drive space. And they can connect to each other more easily vs minis.


----------



## pl1

gabrielstern said:


> If it is the non vox bolt plus with 6 tuners order it.
> 
> The vox ones have te4 pre-installed and can't be reverted to te3.


Funny, I have a Bolt VOX 500G and it is on TE3.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Your romio is not broken its just having a conflict with that tivi because it is a 4k tivi.
> 
> You can always use that on another tivi that it still works on without issues.
> 
> And think of it this way you would have an 3 tbs of hard drive space. And they can connect to each other more easily vs minis.


There are lots of other forums you can utilize too within the tivo community forum such as if you have hard drive issues or upgrade hard drives too.

You may want to try to reach out to ggieseke somewhere in the tivo comunity and try sending him an email he may be able to help you with your current issue.


----------



## gabrielstern

pl1 said:


> Funny, I have a Bolt VOX 500G and it is on TE3.


Did you add a vox remote or did you buy it from from someone else if so that person may have tried out hydra and hated it.

And rolled it back. Check the manufacture date on your bolt if it is white it's the same one I also have.

But I am running an 8tb on that now in addition to my bolt plus.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Did you add a vox remote or did you buy it from from someone else if so that person may have tried out hydra and hated it.
> 
> And rolled it back. Check the manufacture date on your bolt if it is white it's the same one I also have.
> 
> But I am running an 8tb on that now in addition to my bolt plus.


It depends on when it was manufactured if it was manufactured prior to March 2018 they can be rolled back.


----------



## pl1

gabrielstern said:


> Did you add a vox remote or did you buy it from from someone else if so that person may have tried out hydra and hated it.
> 
> And rolled it back. Check the manufacture date on your bolt if it is white it's the same one I also have.
> 
> But I am running an 8tb on that now in addition to my bolt plus.


It is black, I purchased it directly from TiVo brand new. MFG date Jan 8, 2019


----------



## pl1




----------



## gabrielstern

pl1 said:


> It is black, I purchased it directly from TiVo brand new. MFG date Jan 8, 2019


Interesting you got lucky.

My white bolt I purchased brand new from tivo in September 2017.
9 months before hydra came out of testing.
Hydra ruined my power sata ports on that bolt now powering my 8tb with a USB power adapter. And I have a 120 m fan on top to keep hard drive cool so that tivo does not get errors in te3 when restarting.


----------



## pl1




----------



## pl1

gabrielstern said:


> Interesting you got lucky.
> 
> My white bolt I purchased brand new from tivo in September 2017.
> 9 months before hydra came out of testing.
> Hydra ruined my power sata ports on that bolt now powering my 8tb with a USB power adapter. And I have a 120 m fan on top to keep hard drive cool so that tivo does not get errors in te3 when restarting.


I purchased a white refurb from TiVo that I promptly returned. It had that "well known" terrible fan noise. Most of the Bolt problems are the white ones from what I've seen. My black one is rock solid, knock on wood.


----------



## aaronwt

gabrielstern said:


> Te4 is bad especially for Romios i ran it for 3 years and at first it was okay but gradually got worse even for my bolts.
> 
> Te4 will also harm your hard drives even the stock ones as in standby it doesn't power down the hard drives like te3 does with the romios and bolts.


Since when? My Hard Drives still spin down in my Bolts and Roamios. They are both set for High Power Savings mode. When I bring them out of standy, if they have not been recording anything or being viewed remotely, I will hear the hard drive spin up.
I've been using TE4 for years now, since it was introduced. It is still working great on two Bolts, two ROamios, and two Minis.


----------



## bareyb

aaronwt said:


> Since when? My Hard Drives still spin down in my Bolts and Roamios. They are both set for High Power Savings mode. When I bring them out of standy, if they have not been recording anything or being viewed remotely, I will hear the hard drive spin up.
> I've been using TE4 for years now, since it was introduced. It is still working great on two Bolts, two ROamios, and two Minis.


it's not sluggish on your Roamios?


----------



## aaronwt

bareyb said:


> it's not sluggish on your Roamios?


It's only slightly less snappy on my Roamios as on the Bolts. But even on my v1 Mini it still works ok.


----------



## johneh1957

so here I am 4 years after my 1st Tivo and when the new interface came out, i hated it. i even had a scaleing issue that part of the content was cut off at the margins on all 4 sides. that Bolt just had a Hard drive failure and I just got another unit with the new interface. It does not seem to be as objectionable as when I 1st tried it, the most annoying thing is the requirement to use the back button so much. 

so my question is are there advantages and or new features to this new interface that make it worth keeping? I am getting my old unit repaired and obviously need them both on the same UI. All my minis are older UI. and a side note. Weaknees is going to try and recover my 2TB+ shows and I am guessing that it will have to be on the units UI (old one). This may make my decision for me, not sure. Appreciate feedback now that its been out a while.


----------



## gabrielstern

They do not both 


johneh1957 said:


> so here I am 4 years after my 1st Tivo and when the new interface came out, i hated it. i even had a scaleing issue that part of the content was cut off at the margins on all 4 sides. that Bolt just had a Hard drive failure and I just got another unit with the new interface. It does not seem to be as objectionable as when I 1st tried it, the most annoying thing is the requirement to use the back button so much.
> 
> so my question is are there advantages and or new features to this new interface that make it worth keeping? I am getting my old unit repaired and obviously need them both on the same UI. All my minis are older UI. and a side note. Weaknees is going to try and recover my 2TB+ shows and I am guessing that it will have to be on the units UI (old one). This may make my decision for me, not sure. Appreciate feedback now that its been out a while.


They do not both need to be on hydra.

And the answer for me is there is not really an advantage to running hydra.

If anything hydra might be the reason your bolt stopped working as hydra fries out the sata power ports it did that to my one bolt. When I attempted to roll it back.

I switched to powering the hard drive via usb


----------



## johneh1957

Weakness told me that the 3TB drive that was used in the past is a weak link and they have had failures. I was using the older UI on the unit that failed. If one is on new and the other old, can I still see and play shows recorded on either of the other TIVO?


----------



## gabrielstern

johneh1957 said:


> Weakness told me that the 3TB drive that was used in the past is a weak link and they have had failures. I was using the older UI on the unit that failed. If one is on new and the other old, can I still see and play shows recorded on either of the other TIVO?


Yes the old bolt drive was a western digital blue laptop size drive and they were either a 500 gig 1tb or 3tb drive.

I run desktop size drives on my bolts and affix them with velcro on top.

I recomend the purple or red plus drives not the pro drives. And if you do that I recomend attaching 4 dollar brackets from lowes or home depot and affixing a 120 m fan on top and powering it via a USB connection..

And you should not have any hard drive failures.

The reason for that is the hard drives can run hot.

And the exhaust fan in the bolts is not enough to keep the hard drives from overheating.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Yes the old bolt drive was a western digital blue laptop size drive and they were either a 500 gig 1tb or 3tb drive.
> 
> I run desktop size drives on my bolts and affix them with velcro on top.
> 
> I recomend the purple or red plus drives not the pro drives. And if you do that I recomend attaching 4 dollar brackets from lowes or home depot and affixing a 120 m fan on top and powering it via a USB connection..
> 
> And you should not have any hard drive failures.
> 
> The reason for that is the hard drives can run hot.
> 
> And the exhaust fan in the bolts is not enough to keep the hard drives from overheating.


The answer is yes you can, do not let weaknees upgrade it to hydra.

And if they do.

Then you need to download and get py tivo and download all your shows to your computer,

then downgrade and then transfer it back to the older bolt.

With te3 you can still do that.

With hydra you cannot transfer a show back from a computer.

You would need to transfer first to the bolt running te3.

Then use tivo online to transfer into the newer bolt.

And even that is unreliable.

That's why I downgraded all my tivos back to te3 from hydra.


----------



## gabrielstern

bareyb said:


> it's not sluggish on your Roamios?


My bolts and romio did not spin down in hydra at all. I could tell when I put them in standby heard the beep and 8 hrs later the expanded hard drives, I mounted on top were still spinning and hot in te3 they spin down. And are cool to the touch 8hrs later.. With the exception of my series 4. Which are not supposed to spin down at all. That feature was added to the romios in 2014.

And has been a feature on all tivos romio and newer ever since.

I am happy as long as my tivos work the way I need them too.

And in te3 I can safely get my tivos to do what I need them too and keep them running.

Without worrying about bugs and overloading the processors. Or the power sata ports frying out when I try to downgrade or change a hard a drive.

As what happened to my upstairs bolt I have since resolved that by powering via USB. And affixing a 120m case fan on top powering via a second usb.


----------



## aaronwt

gabrielstern said:


> My bolts and romio did not spin down in hydra at all. I could tell when I put them in standby heard the beep and 8 hrs later the expanded hard drives, I mounted on top were still spinning and hot in te3 they spin down. And are cool to the touch 8hrs later.. With the exception of my series 4. Which are not supposed to spin down at all. That feature was added to the romios in 2014.
> 
> And has been a feature on all tivos romio and newer ever since.
> 
> I am happy as long as my tivos work the way I need them too.
> 
> And in te3 I can safely get my tivos to do what I need them too and keep them running.
> 
> Without worrying about bugs and overloading the processors. Or the power sata ports frying out when I try to downgrade or change a hard a drive.
> 
> As what happened to my upstairs bolt I have since resolved that by powering via USB. And affixing a 120m case fan on top powering via a second usb.


My two Bolts and two Roamios all spin down their drives in standby. They are all on Hydra. I have them set on High power savings mode. As long as there is nothing being recorded or no one watching they all spin down. I also do not have suggestions enabled.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> The answer is yes you can, do not let weaknees upgrade it to hydra.
> 
> And if they do.
> 
> Then you need to download and get py tivo and download all your shows to your computer,
> 
> then downgrade and then transfer it back to the older bolt.
> 
> With te3 you can still do that.
> 
> With hydra you cannot transfer a show back from a computer.
> 
> You would need to transfer first to the bolt running te3.
> 
> Then use tivo online to transfer into the newer bolt.
> 
> And even that is unreliable.
> 
> That's why I downgraded all my tivos back to te3 from hydra.





aaronwt said:


> My two Bolts and two Roamios all spin down their drives in standby. They are all on Hydra. I have them set on High power savings mode. As long as there is nothing being recorded or no one watching they all spin down. I also do not have suggestions enabled.





aaronwt said:


> My two Bolts and two Roamios all spin down their drives in standby. They are all on Hydra. I have them set on High power savings mode. As long as there is nothing being recorded or no one watching they all spin down. I also do not have suggestions enabled.





aaronwt said:


> My two Bolts and two Roamios all spin down their drives in standby. They are all on Hydra. I have them set on High power savings mode. As long as there is nothing being recorded or no one watching they all spin down. I also do not have suggestions enabled.


I don't have suggestions enabled either.

But hydra was a mess for me if it works for you great.

In my case hydra was fine for the first 6 months in 2018.

But from there it gradually got worse.

Until I was having too many issues with it.

A Great looking graphics and interface does not work for me if it won't function the way i.need it too.

Or takes away the features and tricks that i love about tivo.

That's Comcast xfinity style thinking with their junky x1 box.

And now there quest to gradually make my tivo unwatchable with their iptv only channels.

They are about to lose me for the cable TV portion.

To Verizon fios.

They want to punish us tivo users when we are the ones who get the best packages with more than one cable card and pay they are going to find out.

When we stop bieng Comcast subscribers and continue to reject their x1 boxes.

Same with tivo but unlike Comcast I can just not purchase any brand new tivos.

And can get used non vox bolts and customize them the way I want to and still get from a to w and back again safely.

To be fair I love technology and even newer nicer looking interfaces.

If they work properly and build upon without taking away classic beloved tivo features.

Such as transfer a recording directly without needing tivo online.

Hydra takes that away.

So minus 5 for that

And while pytivo can extract a stuck recording from a tivo running hydra.

You can't transfer it back to that same tivo directly from a computer.

So take away another 3 if we are judging hydra on a scale of 1 to 10 vs te3 or Quatro.

And last if it is overheating a hard drive and frying out sata power ports when you need to do maintanence by changing out the hard drive every 4 to 5 years.

Minus another 7.

And you are way below zero ratings.



aaronwt said:


> My two Bolts and two Roamios all spin down their drives in standby. They are all on Hydra. I have them set on High power savings mode. As long as there is nothing being recorded or no one watching they all spin down. I also do not have suggestions enabled.


----------



## spinhar1

I’m trying to get back to TE3. What button is “rewind”? Thanks


----------



## JoeKustra

spinhar1 said:


> I'm trying to get back to TE3. What button is "rewind"? Thanks


curly above "A"
https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu...ents/tivo-remotes-compared_labeled-jpg.36684/


----------



## spinhar1

Thanks. When I try that two times nothing happens?


----------



## JoeKustra

spinhar1 said:


> Thanks. When I try that two times nothing happens?


Sorry, it's been a while:
Rewind (left arrow from Select) 2 times


----------



## pl1

spinhar1 said:


> I'm trying to get back to TE3. What button is "rewind"? Thanks


----------



## gabrielstern

If that does not work then you need to use another hard drive to perform the procedure.

Is the device a bolt or romio.

If it is a non vox bolt you can roll it back.

If it is a vox bolt or edge dvr you can't roll it back.

If it is a bolt and the procedure does not work then you need to connect another brand new laptop size non solid state drive let it auto format then perform the roll back procedure.

If it is a romio.

Then you can use any 3.5 desktop size drive.

Just to perform the roll back procedure.

Then download and install western digital data lifegaurd utilities.

And first perform a full drive erase on the stock drive after you have sucessfully rolled back the device then you can put the stock hard drive back in and let it auto format.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> If that does not work then you need to use another hard drive to perform the procedure.
> 
> Is the device a bolt or romio.
> 
> If it is a non vox bolt you can roll it back.
> 
> If it is a vox bolt or edge dvr you can't roll it back.
> 
> If it is a bolt and the procedure does not work then you need to connect another brand new laptop size non solid state drive let it auto format then perform the roll back procedure.
> 
> If it is a romio.
> 
> Then you can use any 3.5 desktop size drive.
> 
> Just to perform the roll back procedure.
> 
> Then download and install western digital data lifegaurd utilities.
> 
> And first perform a full drive erase on the stock drive after you have sucessfully rolled back the device then you can put the stock hard drive back in and let it auto format.


Bit this is one of the reasons why hydra is so bad now.

It performs a drive check.

And has become increasingly more difficult to get rolled back.

And hydra causes more wear and tear on the hard drive vs te3.


----------



## pl1

gabrielstern said:


> If it is a vox bolt or edge dvr you can't roll it back.


This is not correct. I have a Bolt Vox and rolled it back to TE3 the day I received it. The only Bolt that can't be rolled back is the Bolt OTA.

EDIT:And, if I couldn't have rolled it back I would have returned it.


----------



## gabrielstern

pl1 said:


> This is not correct. I have a Bolt Vox and rolled it back to TE3 the day I received it. The only Bolt that can't be rolled back is the Bolt OTA.
> 
> EDIT:And, if I couldn't have rolled it back I would have returned it. [/QAmazon.
> 
> Did you get yours new or was it upgraded to a bolt vox via a remote swap.
> 
> Also it depends on the manufacturing date.
> 
> From my understanding if it was manufactured after around March or April of 2018 then it is my understanding that they came pre-installed with hydra.
> 
> And could not be rolled back.
> 
> But glad you got it rolled back.
> 
> It seems that beginning around January of this year that a lot of people seem to be having issues with rolling back there bolts or romios.
> 
> And I am convinced that it has to do with some kind of update tivo did with the hydra system that has caused sector wear on the stock hard drives.
> 
> My one bolt gave me real problems rolling it back.
> 
> Where I had to plug back in the stock hard drive just to get it rolled back.
> 
> And then the power sata port got fried out and no longer works so now I am powering my hard drive via USB and a data sata cable plugged into that port but since then I have not had many issues but had to put brackets on my desktop size drive affixed on top and attach a 120 m by 25 m case fan to keep the hard drive cool.
> 
> But other than that I have not had any issues since.
> 
> I did not want to spend money to have weaknees do a motherboard repair.
> 
> But that happened because of the drive check that it does which often fries out the sata power ports so the hard drives will no longer power the hard drives up. If you remove the stock hard drive.


----------



## pl1

gabrielstern said:


> Did you get yours new or was it upgraded to a bolt vox via a remote swap. Also it depends on the manufacturing date.


I feel like we already discussed this previously, but I bought my Bolt Vox brand new.


----------



## gabrielstern

pl1 said:


> I feel like we already discussed this previously, but I bought my Bolt Vox brand new.
> 
> View attachment 64337


Are you the guy who got his in like January of 2019.

Who got lucky.

But here's the thing tivo from early 2018 to a certain period of time was just upgrading bolts that did not sell and adding a vox remote to them.

So you may have gotten one of those that were brand new.

There was another forum that talked about that.

My response was for the guy that can't seem to get it rolled back.

So for guys now trying to roll them back, I think a full drive erase would have to be done and then it should let you roll back a bolt or romio device but with a bolt it is best to temporarily power a drive via USB and plug in a separate data sata cable

Or to plug a 3.5 drive such as a red plus or purple or blue drive in to get the rollback performed. Temporarily sitting on top of a bolt should be okay.

Then once the rollback is completed.

Remove the stock laptop size bolt drive and perform a quick erase or full erase if possible using wd data lifeguard utilities.

And things should be working again.


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Are you the guy who got his in like January of 2019.
> 
> Who got lucky.
> 
> But here's the thing tivo from early 2018 to a certain period of time was just upgrading bolts that did not sell and adding a vox remote to them.
> 
> So you may have gotten one of those that were brand new.
> 
> There was another forum that talked about that.
> 
> My response was for the guy that can't seem to get it rolled back.
> 
> So for guys now trying to roll them back, I think a full drive erase would have to be done and then it should let you roll back a bolt or romio device but with a bolt it is best to temporarily power a drive via USB and plug in a separate data sata cable
> 
> Or to plug a 3.5 drive such as a red plus or purple or blue drive in to get the rollback performed. Temporarily sitting on top of a bolt should be okay.
> 
> Then once the rollback is completed.
> 
> Remove the stock laptop size bolt drive and perform a quick erase or full erase if possible using wd data lifeguard utilities.
> 
> And things should be working again.


The reason why I suggest this is to try and get around and to hopefully avoid the hydra drive check from frying out the sata ports. With the bolts


----------



## gabrielstern

pl1 said:


> I feel like we already discussed this previously, but I bought my Bolt Vox brand new.
> 
> View attachment 64337


At least you like me got your tivos rolled back.

And honestly I have not been happier as since I rolled back all my tivos again


----------



## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> At least you like me got your tivos rolled back.
> 
> And honestly I have not been happier as since I rolled back all my tivos once again I can safely maintain them myself without worrying about hard drive issues or processors getting overloaded.


I have attached a picture below of my bolt plus.

That I rolled back and you can see the case fan and bracket on top that keeps my 3.5 drive cool.

My white bolt has the same set up that I rolled back.


----------



## pl1

Here is the bottom line. All Roamios and Bolts (except the Bolt OTA) can run either TE3 or TE4. It has always been that way. There is only ONE model that will not run TE3 and that is the Bolt OTA model# TCD849500.


----------



## pl1

gabrielstern said:


> I have attached a picture below of my bolt plus.
> That I rolled back and you can see the case fan and bracket on top that keeps my 3.5 drive cool.
> My white bolt has the same set up that I rolled back.


Looks good! I've previously used an external case with my Bolt Vox, but I am currently using the Toshiba 2TB with a USB fan directed to the cableCARD opening.


----------



## gabrielstern

pl1 said:


> Looks good! I've previously used an external case with my Bolt Vox, but I am currently using the Toshiba 2TB with a USB fan directed to the cableCARD opening.


Both bolts of mine have been upgraded to western digital 8tb purple drives.

Affixed with velcro from Walmart. And 4 dollar brackets metal book shelf brackets, I purchased at lowes with bits power touch aqua fans that were 12 dollar fans each.

And I power the fans via a USB power sata adapter plugged into a pwm management supply just to power the fan

One is microconector brand on the bolt plus on the white 500 gig bolt it is Silverstone I Iike the Silverstone better.

But the hard drives stay room tempeture cool and thats what counts.

I do not recomend the Toshiba for hard drives though. For tivos.

I prefer wd red plus drives or purple drives.

But the problem is the 6tb and bigger drives get hot.

Which messes up how the tivo functions.

I miss the green drives and the old red drives.

Previosrly my upstairs bolt had a 6tb red drive from 2018.

But I have since replaced it with an 8tb purple drive.

I have tested a Seagate iron wolf 6tb and that stays cool when I tested it on my series 4 but not sure how it will react in a romio.

I have to test an 8tb iron wolf to see if that drive will also stay cool to the touch.

If so then I can install that in my romio without needing to leave the top off.

With the purples and red plus drives at 8tb I would have to leave the top off and install a case fan on top of the hard drive which I do not want to do on my series 4 or romio.

At least like me you have moved beyond using stock hard drives.

Have you thought of just going beyond 2 tb drives and going to a 6 or 8tb and using mffs reformator to max things out.

Of course with bolts before you remove any hard drives you would need to back up all your recordings first. Because of them storing the memory in flash instead of the hard drive.


----------



## Robin A Baum

Ok, so I tried many times using the procedures noted to roll back a Bolt VOX from T4 to T3.
It looked like it was going to work and then I just kept getting an error message suggesting it was my network?
I'm pretty sure it's fine!

And I see conflicting ideas here about the rollback ability on Bolt+/VOX ?

Am I stuck?


----------



## pl1

Robin A Baum said:


> Ok, so I tried many times using the procedures noted to roll back a Bolt VOX from T4 to T3.
> It looked like it was going to work and then I just kept getting an error message suggesting it was my network?
> I'm pretty sure it's fine!
> 
> And I see conflicting ideas here about the rollback ability on Bolt+/VOX ?
> 
> Am I stuck?


I can tell you this, I have a TiVo Bolt Vox 500 GB Model# TCD849500V which came with TE4 from TiVo and I easily downgraded to TE3. The only Bolt that can not be downgraded is the Over The Air Model Model# TCD849500. https://support.tivo.com/articles/FAQ/TiVo-Service-Number-and-Model-Number-Table

That said, These instructions say that you need to hit the thumbs down 2 times, but I think it was 3 times for me.

1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select
2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), now press Rewind 2 times, Now press Select (not Enter)
3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun

And this:

Its actually (at least on the *Bolt I just got) Help -> Reset To Defaults -> Restart Guided Tour
(the the rest is correct)*

Otherwise, if you really want to go there, you could try a factory reset and try again once you are back up and running, *but you will lose your cableCARD pairing if you do that, so forewarned! *


----------



## pl1

And this: How to uninstall Hydra from Bolt

I just got off the phone with TiVo support, there is a hidden downgrade option in the help menus Here are the instructions they just emailed me.

"To downgrade a DVR from TiVo Experience 4 to TiVo Experience 3:
From HOME, Choose MENU > HELP > RESET TO DEFAULTS > REPEAT GUIDED SETUP
Repeat Guided Setup screen where the customer will need to enter the backdoor code.
From the Repeat Guided Setup screen, enter the following Backdoor Code:
Press Thumbs Down, Thumbs Down, Rewind, Rewind on the remote control to display the Downgrade Your TiVo Box
screen.
*Tip: If the backdoor code does not initiate the Downgrade Your TiVo Box screen, [Restart or Power cycle the DVR].*

2. After entering the code, the Downgrade Your TiVo Box screen appears."

*I am not responsible for any loss of data. As I understand this wipes all data & recordings...*

Good Luck
Shalamar

EDIT:Adding the TiVo instructions.


----------



## Robin A Baum

pl1 said:


> And this: How to uninstall Hydra from Bolt
> 
> I just got off the phone with TiVo support, there is a hidden downgrade option in the help menus Here are the instructions they just emailed me.
> 
> "To downgrade a DVR from TiVo Experience 4 to TiVo Experience 3:
> From HOME, Choose MENU > HELP > RESET TO DEFAULTS > REPEAT GUIDED SETUP
> Repeat Guided Setup screen where the customer will need to enter the backdoor code.
> From the Repeat Guided Setup screen, enter the following Backdoor Code:
> Press Thumbs Down, Thumbs Down, Rewind, Rewind on the remote control to display the Downgrade Your TiVo Box
> screen.
> *Tip: If the backdoor code does not initiate the Downgrade Your TiVo Box screen, [Restart or Power cycle the DVR].*
> 
> 2. After entering the code, the Downgrade Your TiVo Box screen appears."
> 
> *I am not responsible for any loss of data. As I understand this wipes all data & recordings...*
> 
> Good Luck
> Shalamar
> 
> EDIT:Adding the TiVo instructions.


Thanks for that PDF!!
The error message I was getting was about 2/3 down the PDF.
Now I know what else I can try!
And I'll try that tomorrow morning!!


----------



## gabrielstern

Robin A Baum said:


> Thanks for that PDF!!
> The error message I was getting was about 2/3 down the PDF.
> Now I know what else I can try!
> And I'll try that tomorrow morning!!


That's the same procedure outlined in the beginning of this forum.

also note if you removed your stock hard drive and installed a hard drive bigger than 3tbs you will need to remove the bigger drive and then install the stock hard drive back into your romio or bolt. Then Perform the downgrade procedure.

Then do a complete drive erase and then reinstall the bigger drive.

I also recomend you back up all recordings using pytivo or ktmg as outlined also in the beginning of this forum then proceed.


----------



## Robin A Baum

There were a couple other options in the PDF that I hadn't seen before but, ultimately I ended up doing it differently than described here or in the PDF.

So, I have been trying for 2 days to to put a donor hard drive into my Bolt+. 
I had purchased a Bolt VOX 3tb on Ebay (purchased without service) as a donor drive for my failing hard drive on my original Bolt+. The donor VOX came with TE4 installed which I didn't find out right away. My original Bolt+ is running TE3.

I kept getting a red screen with a "Software Downgrade Error!" when I tried to do the direct swap. 
Someone else had said to go ahead and let the donor VOX run Guided Setup before removing the hard drive which I hadn't done before swapping the drives. I had just taken the drive out of the VOX and put it into my original Bolt+ without running Guided Setup on the donor box.
So, then I tried letting Guided Setup run on the donor VOX a couple of times to no avail!! I was still getting the red screen and the same error message when I swapped the drives out. 
On the bright side, I am now a professional Tivo disassembler/re-assembler!!!
I finally deduced that the red screen was probably caused by the two Bolt drives running different interfaces 
(TE3 and TE4).

So then I found the backdoor code to downgrade the interface from TE4 to TE3 here. I tried several times, without success, to downgrade the VOX donor box, from the TE4 that it came with to TE3 (my preferred interface). I kept getting an error message that my network was to blame. And Tivo Customer Service had no clue what to do so I came here.

Joe Kustra gave me the Ah-ha moment in another thread here!! He said to activate service on the donor box for $14.99 on tivo.com. I never thought to activate the donor box! And I can cancel within 30 days without penalty!!

So, this morning I activated service on the donor VOX for a month for $14.99 which I will cancel this afternoon. Once I had activated the service on the donor VOX, I was then able to downgrade the TE4 on the donor VOX to TE3. 
YIPPEEE!!! 
When the donor VOX got back to the Guided Setup page, I simply unplugged the donor VOX from the power outlet and swapped the now successfully rolled back TE3, VOX hard drive into my original Bolt+, also running TE3.
It went right to Guided Setup and finished up in TE3!!!!!!

VOILA!!!!!! SUCCESS!!!!!!! Happy dance!!!

THANKS Joe Kustra, pl1 and everyone else for this forum!!!!

~Robin

PS: Next time the hard drive fails, I am going with the external drive option!!!! 
Hopefully, not for a couple more years!!


----------



## pl1

Robin A Baum said:


> VOILA!!!!!! SUCCESS!!!!!!! Happy dance!!!


Congrats! I wouldn't have thought activation would be required, but now I know.


----------



## gabrielstern

Robin A Baum said:


> There were a couple other options in the PDF that I hadn't seen before but, ultimately I ended up doing it differently than described here or in the PDF.
> 
> So, I have been trying for 2 days to to put a donor hard drive into my Bolt+.
> I had purchased a Bolt VOX 3tb on Ebay (purchased without service) as a donor drive for my failing hard drive on my original Bolt+. The donor VOX came with TE4 installed which I didn't find out right away. My original Bolt+ is running TE3.
> 
> I kept getting a red screen with a "Software Downgrade Error!" when I tried to do the direct swap.
> Someone else had said to go ahead and let the donor VOX run Guided Setup before removing the hard drive which I hadn't done before swapping the drives. I had just taken the drive out of the VOX and put it into my original Bolt+ without running Guided Setup on the donor box.
> So, then I tried letting Guided Setup run on the donor VOX a couple of times to no avail!! I was still getting the red screen and the same error message when I swapped the drives out.
> On the bright side, I am now a professional Tivo disassembler/re-assembler!!!
> I finally deduced that the red screen was probably caused by the two Bolt drives running different interfaces
> (TE3 and TE4).
> 
> So then I found the backdoor code to downgrade the interface from TE4 to TE3 here. I tried several times, without success, to downgrade the VOX donor box, from the TE4 that it came with to TE3 (my preferred interface). I kept getting an error message that my network was to blame. And Tivo Customer Service had no clue what to do so I came here.
> 
> Joe Kustra gave me the Ah-ha moment in another thread here!! He said to activate service on the donor box for $14.99 on tivo.com. I never thought to activate the donor box! And I can cancel within 30 days without penalty!!
> 
> So, this morning I activated service on the donor VOX for a month for $14.99 which I will cancel this afternoon. Once I had activated the service on the donor VOX, I was then able to downgrade the TE4 on the donor VOX to TE3.
> YIPPEEE!!!
> When the donor VOX got back to the Guided Setup page, I simply unplugged the donor VOX from the power outlet and swapped the now successfully rolled back TE3, VOX hard drive into my original Bolt+, also running TE3.
> It went right to Guided Setup and finished up in TE3!!!!!!
> 
> VOILA!!!!!! SUCCESS!!!!!!! Happy dance!!!
> 
> THANKS Joe Kustra, pl1 and everyone else for this forum!!!!
> 
> ~Robin
> 
> PS: Next time the hard drive fails, I am going with the external drive option!!!!
> Hopefully, not for a couple more years!!


That's correct you needed to on the bolt vox drive run a complete drive erase using the western digital data lifegaurd utility which can be downloaded for free.

Then it should auto format the drive hopefully you backed up you recordings first.

But it would have been a lot less expensive to have just purchased a new western digital red plus 3tb drive and affixed it externally to the top of the bolt with velcro and did what I did.

Vs spending all that extra money on a bolt vox just for the hard drive

Or if you just wanted a laptop size drive you could have purchased a 3 tb wd blue drive in a laptop size although I don't like them. At all.


----------



## gabrielstern

Not necessary you can 


Robin A Baum said:


> There were a couple other options in the PDF that I hadn't seen before but, ultimately I ended up doing it differently than described here or in the PDF.
> 
> So, I have been trying for 2 days to to put a donor hard drive into my Bolt+.
> I had purchased a Bolt VOX 3tb on Ebay (purchased without service) as a donor drive for my failing hard drive on my original Bolt+. The donor VOX came with TE4 installed which I didn't find out right away. My original Bolt+ is running TE3.
> 
> I kept getting a red screen with a "Software Downgrade Error!" when I tried to do the direct swap.
> Someone else had said to go ahead and let the donor VOX run Guided Setup before removing the hard drive which I hadn't done before swapping the drives. I had just taken the drive out of the VOX and put it into my original Bolt+ without running Guided Setup on the donor box.
> So, then I tried letting Guided Setup run on the donor VOX a couple of times to no avail!! I was still getting the red screen and the same error message when I swapped the drives out.
> On the bright side, I am now a professional Tivo disassembler/re-assembler!!!
> I finally deduced that the red screen was probably caused by the two Bolt drives running different interfaces
> (TE3 and TE4).
> 
> So then I found the backdoor code to downgrade the interface from TE4 to TE3 here. I tried several times, without success, to downgrade the VOX donor box, from the TE4 that it came with to TE3 (my preferred interface). I kept getting an error message that my network was to blame. And Tivo Customer Service had no clue what to do so I came here.
> 
> Joe Kustra gave me the Ah-ha moment in another thread here!! He said to activate service on the donor box for $14.99 on tivo.com. I never thought to activate the donor box! And I can cancel within 30 days without penalty!!
> 
> So, this morning I activated service on the donor VOX for a month for $14.99 which I will cancel this afternoon. Once I had activated the service on the donor VOX, I was then able to downgrade the TE4 on the donor VOX to TE3.
> YIPPEEE!!!
> When the donor VOX got back to the Guided Setup page, I simply unplugged the donor VOX from the power outlet and swapped the now successfully rolled back TE3, VOX hard drive into my original Bolt+, also running TE3.
> It went right to Guided Setup and finished up in TE3!!!!!!
> 
> VOILA!!!!!! SUCCESS!!!!!!! Happy dance!!!
> 
> THANKS Joe Kustra, pl1 and everyone else for this forum!!!!
> 
> ~Robin
> 
> PS: Next time the hard drive fails, I am going with the external drive option!!!!
> Hopefully, not for a couple more years!!


Not necessary read my suggestion below and do it yourself there is even a picture somewhere in this forum of my bolt plus Setup.


----------



## Robin A Baum

pl1 said:


> Congrats! I wouldn't have thought activation would be required, but now I know.


I'm not 100% sure I couldn't have just done the Delete Everything option for the VOX and reinstalled it in my original Bolt+ since I don't think I tried that until after I activated the donor box.
I didn't have a way to hook it directly to my laptop or I would have wiped it myself that way.
That cable will be here tomorrow from Amazon for next time!
Regards,
~Robin
PS: I paid less than the cost of a new drive for the VOX.


----------



## gabrielstern

Robin A Baum said:


> I'm not 100% sure I couldn't have just done the Delete Everything option for the VOX and reinstalled it in my original Bolt+ since I don't think I tried that until after I activated the donor box.
> I didn't have a way to hook it directly to my laptop or I would have wiped it myself that way.
> That cable will be here tomorrow from Amazon for next time!
> Regards,
> ~Robin


Nope a c d and e would not have worked.

Done that before.

Your best bet would be purchasing a USB adapter set for you computer and downloading western digital data lifeguard utilities. And making sure before you remove any hard drives you back up all recordings even from a failing hard drive using pytivo or kttmg.

Then proceed with removing a failing drive especially with bolts as the memory for the recordings is stored on flash vs the hard drive so once you remove it it wipes all your recordings. Vs a Romio and earlier tivo.

My point is you spent money and extra expenses that you could have avoided.

The stock bolt drives are notorious for failing.

So for next time plan on this a 3.5 size drive 3tb drive either a western digital red plus not pro or a 3 tb purple drive or a Seagate green barracuda drive some velcro a pwm fan cable to extend the power sata connection and a 4 dollar pair of book shelf brackets from home depot or lowes to affix a 120 m by 25 m fan on top and a USB power adapter and a Silverstone pwm management to plug fan into and power from a power USB.
all less than 120 dollars.

And then I promise you won't have a failing hard drive problem anymore.


----------



## Robin A Baum

This is my 2nd hard drive replacement for this Bolt+. My nearly 10 year old Premier Elite XL is still going strong!!

Definitely going with the external option next time it fails. (and I know it will!) 

I've had the donor Vox box on hand for a couple months now because the last drive was randomly rebooting at the most inopportune moments. It got to be a twice-daily issue last week so I dug out the Ebay-purchased VOX to replace the 2tb Blue WD I put in it in March of 2021. In March 2021, I just went to BestBuy and got whatever they had at that moment to get it back up and running. Because it wasn't the correct hard drive for the Tivo, it never worked right 100% of the time.
I've learned a thing or two since that purchase.
And, I actually paid less for the VOX than the replacement hard drive would have cost. I bid way low on eBay and won the auction so it wasn't that bad. 
Plus, I never looked here for the answers like I should have!!

I do have a question, though: Would a better fan help the drive last longer?? I think I read that one issue is overheating. (along with getting too much use from the 6 tuners and the other issues plaguing this unit.)
Thanks again!!
Robin


----------



## gabrielstern

Robin A Baum said:


> This is my 2nd hard drive replacement for this Bolt+. My nearly 10 year old Premier Elite XL is still going strong!!
> 
> Definitely going with the external option next time it fails. (and I know it will!)
> 
> I've had the donor Vox box on hand for a couple months now because the last drive was randomly rebooting at the most inopportune moments. It got to be a twice-daily issue last week so I dug out the Ebay-purchased VOX to replace the 2tb Blue WD I put in it in March of 2021. In March 2021, I just went to BestBuy and got whatever they had at that moment to get it back up and running. Because it wasn't the correct hard drive for the Tivo, it never worked right 100% of the time.
> I've learned a thing or two since that purchase.
> And, I actually paid less for the VOX than the replacement hard drive would have cost. I bid way low on eBay and won the auction so it wasn't that bad.
> Plus, I never looked here for the answers like I should have!!
> 
> I do have a question, though: Would a better fan help the drive last longer?? I think I read that one issue is overheating. (along with getting too much use from the 6 tuners and the other issues plaguing this unit.)
> Thanks again!!
> Robin


Thats correct so you have a series 4 too but consider what I posted that is the external do it yourself option. And exactly what I have done with my 2 bolts . And did that early this year before that I was just affixing 3.5 drives on top of my bolts.

Put it this way I have never run any if my bolts on the laptop size drives.

Ever since I started using them in 2017 because I like my romio and series 4 premier run bigger than stock hard drives.

The problem now is finding drives that stay cool so for my bolts and my one romio for now I have had to run 120 m size case fans over bookshelf brackets to keep the hard drives cool. Which is perfect for the bolts but for my romio and series 4 I may going the green barracuda route. As I think that is the only option where the drives run at 5400 rpms in the bigger sizes and stay cool without the need for extra fans

Which are impossible to add inside the tivos anyway.

If you do go the route I did which is just mounting a desktop size drive externally on top of your bolt then yes affixing a 120 m case size fan on top of the drive will help.

I have attached a picture in the hope that helps you understand more clearly how I mounted my drives externally.


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## gabrielstern

gabrielstern said:


> Thats correct so you have a series 4 too but consider what I posted that is the external do it yourself option. And exactly what I have done with my 2 bolts . And did that early this year before that I was just affixing 3.5 drives on top of my bolts.
> 
> Put it this way I have never run any if my bolts on the laptop size drives.
> 
> Ever since I started using them in 2017 because I like my romio and series 4 premier run bigger than stock hard drives.
> 
> The problem now is finding drives that stay cool so for my bolts and my one romio for now I have had to run 120 m size case fans over bookshelf brackets to keep the hard drives cool. Which is perfect for the bolts but for my romio and series 4 I may going the green barracuda route. As I think that is the only option where the drives run at 5400 rpms in the bigger sizes and stay cool without the need for extra fans
> 
> Which are impossible to add inside the tivos anyway.
> 
> If you do go the route I did which is just mounting a desktop size drive externally on top of your bolt then yes affixing a 120 m case size fan on top of the drive will help.
> 
> I have attached a picture in the hope that helps you understand more clearly how I mounted my drives externally.


The picture above is of my bolt plus. I hope this helps you plan your mounting a desktop drive externally.

The drive mounted on my bolt plus is a western digital 8tb purple drive which was mislabeled as a 5400 rpm drive but really is a 7200 rpm drive thus nesatating the case fan on top set as an intake to keep the hard drive cool to the touch.


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## Robin A Baum

Totally going external next time the drive fails so I'll definitely be needing help then!
I'll be baaack!!
Many thanks to all of you!!


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## videobruce

Do the instructions in post 1 still apply to the Roamio OTA to revert back from Experience to Classic?


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## osu1991

videobruce said:


> Do the instructions in post 1 still apply to the Roamio OTA to revert back from Experience to Classic?


Yes, used them myself a couple months ago to roll back a roamio and a couple of minis.


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