# Energy waste during off hours



## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

Has anybody tried to use a on/off timer with a TiVo? All of my recording and watching occur during a 6 hour time period. The other 18 hours I am just wasting power running the TiVo. Any reason I can't just use a timer to completely turn off the unit during that time?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

There are those here that have done that and continue to do that. 

Lots of arguments on the costs for that- does it cause the drive to fail earlier than it would otherwise? The energy cost savings calcs are also very small, the newer boxes are far more efficient than older generations. Standby is a minimal difference.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

The savings is if you do that will all/most electronics. For some it's a matter of every little bit helps. Since we use a mini there is little time we can say the Tivo certainly won't be used but I am not one who thinks it will change the life of the hard drive, however it could be more likely to affect the other electronics from being turned on and off so many times. It's often the initial applying power that is hardest not the continuous use. I must admit I don't even know if that is true in today's electronics.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

phughes200 said:


> Has anybody tried to use a on/off timer with a TiVo? All of my recording and watching occur during a 6 hour time period. The other 18 hours I am just wasting power running the TiVo. Any reason I can't just use a timer to completely turn off the unit during that time?


I'm going to guess you don't use a UPS also? The 17W used by a basic Roamio can probably not be measured on your monthly bill. I guess you have all LED bulbs also? The loss of scheduled update to the guide are nothing, but the power used by the timer, and its management, are just not worth it. You don't need a timer, just enable the high power saving mode.

Now, there are a few people off the grid who need to worry about every KWH. I can understand that. But my H/W heater uses 3KWH/day. My fridge uses about that also. My daily use is about 12KWH in the summer, and 25 in the winter. A TiVo doesn't make a difference that I can measure.


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## jpolster2016 (May 11, 2016)

I also have this to add:

Most of the people on this forum talk about having pretty nice setups and paying for lifetime, which is no small chunk of change. I would argue that if you can purchase a tivo, and pay for lifetime service, you probably can afford to leave it on all the time and shouldn't be whining about pennies wasted.


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## dahacker (Jan 14, 2004)

The Tivo is designed to run 24/7 for many of its functions such as schedule updating, remote scheduling, and remote streaming to function efficiently.

Powering on and off the Tivo and other small electronics to save energy is probably 50th on the list of things you need to do to your home to save power.

Work down these first:

1. New Windows
2. Insulation
3. More efficient HVAC
4. More efficient refrigerator
5. Automated thermostat
6. More efficient hot water heater
7. New doors
8. Solar Panels
9. LED bulbs
.....


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

dahacker said:


> The Tivo is designed to run 24/7 for many of its functions such as schedule updating, remote scheduling, and remote streaming to function efficiently.
> 
> Powering on and off the Tivo and other small electronics to save energy is probably 50th on the list of things you need to do to your home to save power.
> 
> ...


+ 1 on #4 & #6 HUGE savings with current offerings, over 10 plus year old units.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

jpolster2016 said:


> I also have this to add:
> 
> Most of the people on this forum talk about having pretty nice setups and paying for lifetime, which is no small chunk of change. I would argue that if you can purchase a tivo, and pay for lifetime service, you probably can afford to leave it on all the time and shouldn't be whining about pennies wasted.


But that misses the real point. Not money, resources.I can afford a large expensive car but choose not to because of how much gas it uses, more so because of resources over cost. Don't get me wrong, I should have that choice, and a TIVO unplugged on it's own is just about meaningless. But as I posted, what if everyone unplugged all receivers when not in use? As I also said,I do leave mine on all the time and use many features including a Mini and Streaming.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

You guys can be harsh

I was not whining or even penny pinching (okay maybe a little). My daughter is turning into an environmentalist and as a result is making me more aware of how wasteful our country is about energy.

What prompt my post was an article about standby losses in electronics. It was estimated that these losses represent the power generate by 50 average power plants. Set top boxes and DVRs were one of the worst offenders. Multiplied by millions of boxes it adds up. 

No I am not an die hard tree hugger. Just seem wasteful. Although it does seem that TiVo has made improvements in this area compare to their older units.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Many people wind up using their old refrigerator in the basement or garage. A new refrigerator winds up using more energy, for those people. Powering off unused devices can be done without any cost. New windows, new fridge etc cost $$$.

A good start is unplugging cable boxes, game consoles etc. that aren't used that often. I'm thinking if a cable box in an extra bedroom.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

I would love to do many of the things recommended but the payback period is just too long for me at this time. The up front cost can also be a killer.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

phughes200 said:


> I would love to do many of the things recommended but the payback period is just too long for me at this time. The up front cost can also be a killer.


Don't climb the highest mountain first. I spent a year changing from CFL to LED. Two or three bulbs a week, especially in a house where people like to leave lights on, really helps. It's been years since I had to replace a bulb also.

I also have stock in my electric company. Hedging my bets and they have a 4% dividend.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> I'm going to guess you don't use a UPS also? The 17W used by a basic Roamio can probably not be measured on your monthly bill. I guess you have all LED bulbs also? The loss of scheduled update to the guide are nothing, but the power used by the timer, and its management, are just not worth it. You don't need a timer, just enable the high power saving mode.
> 
> Now, there are a few people off the grid who need to worry about every KWH. I can understand that. But my H/W heater uses 3KWH/day. My fridge uses about that also. My daily use is about 12KWH in the summer, and 25 in the winter. A TiVo doesn't make a difference that I can measure.


Assuming your 17 watts per hour is correct, for me the total cost of running the tivo is under $20 a year. And if one were to unplug it for 3/4 of the day, the savings would be under $15 per year. Like someone else posted, a lot better areas where energy can be saved.


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## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

As others have mentioned- the TiVo is designed to run 24/7 and does updates, etc during the overnight period.

At 17 watts draw- cutting the power for 18 hrs/day will save (.017x 18) .306kWh per day or 9kWh per month. Here in NY we pay the highest electric rates in the US at $0.23/kWh so that would save me about (9x.23) $2 per month. If you're closer to the US average of 12 cents/kWh then it would save you about $1 per month.

There is probably some lower hanging fruit around your home (non-LED bulbs, computers that are never shut off, etc...) that could save you more than $1/month if you looked into them.

FWIW- even the two 40 watt bulbs used in over the range microwaves can be replaced with two 4.5 watt LEDs resulting in much larger savings ($6/month in my case) than unplugging the TiVo will give you.


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## jerrykur (Jun 23, 2009)

I tried to use the power argument as a reason to refuse to let my mother-in-law stay over. She takes 30 minute showers, washes every towel ever day, and insists on leaving the kitchen lights on all night. But, my wife just handed me a $20 and said "deal with it".


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

sathead said:


> Here in NY we pay the highest electric rates in the US at $0.23/kWh ...


Not true. High, without a doubt, but not the highest.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

sathead said:


> ...
> Here in NY we pay the highest electric rates in the US at $0.23/kWh
> ...


Where in NY to you live that you have to pay that much? My rates (NYSE&G in Western NY) vary between 10-12cents (plus the $15/mo service charge). AT 23 cents you need to install solar panels yesterday, you would have less than a 5 year pay back and then nearly free power for another 20 years after that.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

If you are from Rochester, NY you probably benefit from hydro power. I know I did when I lived in Syracuse. I suspect the person paying 23 cents is from the metro NYC area.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

My post really was more food for thought that companies need to be more aware of the impact of some of these features. Do I really need a clock on every appliance or a light that tells me the TV is off. My desktop doesn't even have a off switch. I can power down but it still use a small amount of power. Granted these are very low power draws but when multiplied by tens of millions of devices it becomes a issue.

Anyway this is a TiVo forum and the question was answered. Thanks. Back to regular programming.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

You are being driven by scare articles. Despite all the huge numbers they cry out over, the vampire systems are really a small amount of energy compared to everything else we do. 

By all means, destroy an appliance's usefulness by turning it off. That makes little sense. 

As for clocks all over. I use them as clocks as well as timers in microwaves, etc. no need to have clocks in every room. 

It is all overblown.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Current tivos (actually I think Roamio and newer) DO have a power off option.. they spin down the hard drive and go into standby, after a user-configurable amount of time.


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## jpolster2016 (May 11, 2016)

Being on the poorer end of the income spectrum, making roughly about 800 / every two weeks, I do try to save electricity simply to keep the bill down. Im not over the top about it and I don't care about standby electricity use and tend to favor convenience of an always ready device over saving resources, and I also tend to favor the lower up front cost of regular light bulbs over LED. The only place I use LED bulbs is in fixtures that require a lot of effort to replace the bulbs in, simply out of laziness. I shouldn't have made rash assumptions about your income, and im sorry about that. It does bother me though to see someone with a 100,000 per year income moan and complain over minor expenses electricity usage. I think it stems from being a teenager with a dad who's a civil engineer making 120k a year yet *****ing and moaning over the electricity use of the amber DPMS LED on my crt monitor because i wouldnt turn it off by the switch. Or my personal favorite: his rant over ATM fees, which at the time were rather small compared to today. "why should I use a debit card at all?" He would say. "I can use Discover and get 1% back at the end of the year. And I pay my bill in FULL every month. I pay NO INTEREST on my purchases because I BUDGET and PLAN." So yeah, after growing up hearing that BS all the time, it kind of sets me off to hear rich people complain about money. I do however apologize if you aren't a rich snob, as I shouldn't have made that assumption.

EDIT: Also, as to resources, I couldn't give a rats booty. There will be enough resources for my lifetime, and I don't have or want children to worry about. my bf feels differently about the resources issue, i guess every couple has its disagreements.


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## HobokenSkier (Oct 14, 2015)

phughes200 said:


> You guys can be harsh
> 
> I was not whining or even penny pinching (okay maybe a little). My daughter is turning into an environmentalist and as a result is making me more aware of how wasteful our country is about energy.
> 
> ...


Tivo roamio and bolt are big upgrades. Mine is interfaced with a control4 system. That sends a deep sleep command when I turn the tv off. The sleep mode def saves some phantom power.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

jpolster2016 said:


> Being on the poorer end of the income spectrum, making roughly about 800 / every two weeks, I do try to save electricity simply to keep the bill down. Im not over the top about it and I don't care about standby electricity use and tend to favor convenience of an always ready device over saving resources, and I also tend to favor the lower up front cost of regular light bulbs over LED. The only place I use LED bulbs is in fixtures that require a lot of effort to replace the bulbs in, simply out of laziness. I shouldn't have made rash assumptions about your income, and im sorry about that. It does bother me though to see someone with a 100,000 per year income moan and complain over minor expenses electricity usage. I think it stems from being a teenager with a dad who's a civil engineer making 120k a year yet *****ing and moaning over the electricity use of the amber DPMS LED on my crt monitor because i wouldnt turn it off by the switch. Or my personal favorite: his rant over ATM fees, which at the time were rather small compared to today. "why should I use a debit card at all?" He would say. "I can use Discover and get 1% back at the end of the year. And I pay my bill in FULL every month. I pay NO INTEREST on my purchases because I BUDGET and PLAN." So yeah, after growing up hearing that BS all the time, it kind of sets me off to hear rich people complain about money. I do however apologize if you aren't a rich snob, as I shouldn't have made that assumption.
> 
> EDIT: Also, as to resources, I couldn't give a rats booty. There will be enough resources for my lifetime, and I don't have or want children to worry about. my bf feels differently about the resources issue, i guess every couple has its disagreements.


And that's why unfortunately you are at the poorer end of the income spectrum.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

phughes200 said:


> Has anybody tried to use a on/off timer with a TiVo? All of my recording and watching occur during a 6 hour time period. The other 18 hours I am just wasting power running the TiVo. Any reason I can't just use a timer to completely turn off the unit during that time?


Addressing your specific question of: "Any reason I can't just use a timer to completely turn off the unit during that time?"

IMO No, it's your TiVo to operate as you wish.

You should have led with the statement about your daughter becoming an environmentalist.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

I agree. Sorry I started this thread. Time to let it die.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Not your fault. Happens all the time.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

jpolster2016 said:


> Being on the poorer end of the income spectrum, making roughly about 800 / every two weeks, I do try to save electricity simply to keep the bill down. Im not over the top about it and I don't care about standby electricity use and tend to favor convenience of an always ready device over saving resources, and I also tend to favor the lower up front cost of regular light bulbs over LED. The only place I use LED bulbs is in fixtures that require a lot of effort to replace the bulbs in, simply out of laziness. I shouldn't have made rash assumptions about your income, and im sorry about that. It does bother me though to see someone with a 100,000 per year income moan and complain over minor expenses electricity usage. I think it stems from being a teenager with a dad who's a civil engineer making 120k a year yet *****ing and moaning over the electricity use of the amber DPMS LED on my crt monitor because i wouldnt turn it off by the switch. Or my personal favorite: his rant over ATM fees, which at the time were rather small compared to today. "why should I use a debit card at all?" He would say. "I can use Discover and get 1% back at the end of the year. And I pay my bill in FULL every month. I pay NO INTEREST on my purchases because I BUDGET and PLAN." So yeah, after growing up hearing that BS all the time, it kind of sets me off to hear rich people complain about money. I do however apologize if you aren't a rich snob, as I shouldn't have made that assumption.
> 
> EDIT: Also, as to resources, I couldn't give a rats booty. There will be enough resources for my lifetime, and I don't have or want children to worry about. my bf feels differently about the resources issue, i guess every couple has its disagreements.


Are you my son? I'm a civil engineer and make over $100k per year. And, I make the same comments about credit cards. You should have listened to your pops! 🤑


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

jpolster2016 said:


> Being on the poorer end of the income spectrum, making roughly about 800 / every two weeks, I do try to save electricity simply to keep the bill down. Im not over the top about it and I don't care about standby electricity use and tend to favor convenience of an always ready device over saving resources, and I also tend to favor the lower up front cost of regular light bulbs over LED. The only place I use LED bulbs is in fixtures that require a lot of effort to replace the bulbs in, simply out of laziness. I shouldn't have made rash assumptions about your income, and im sorry about that. It does bother me though to see someone with a 100,000 per year income moan and complain over minor expenses electricity usage. I think it stems from being a teenager with a dad who's a civil engineer making 120k a year yet *****ing and moaning over the electricity use of the amber DPMS LED on my crt monitor because i wouldnt turn it off by the switch. Or my personal favorite: his rant over ATM fees, which at the time were rather small compared to today. "why should I use a debit card at all?" He would say. "I can use Discover and get 1% back at the end of the year. And I pay my bill in FULL every month. I pay NO INTEREST on my purchases because I BUDGET and PLAN." So yeah, after growing up hearing that BS all the time, it kind of sets me off to hear rich people complain about money. I do however apologize if you aren't a rich snob, as I shouldn't have made that assumption.
> 
> EDIT: Also, as to resources, I couldn't give a rats booty. There will be enough resources for my lifetime, and I don't have or want children to worry about. my bf feels differently about the resources issue, i guess every couple has its disagreements.


I'm an Electrical Engineer. And I have the same discussions with my son. It's not about a being a rich snob. There's multiple reasons for having a non-wasteful attitude.

The biggest is because I'm paying for it. I'm paying for all the bills, including my son's education. I'm also saving for my own retirement. No entitlement attitude or expectation that my Government is going to take care of me.

Some simple math can be a handy thing. While I didn't go bat crap crazy and replace all the bulbs in my house with CFL's and later LED's, I did figure out which ones will pay for themself in electic bills in < 1yr based on average usage and started switching out 20yrs ago. Closest - nope, Stair light that gets used an average of 1min a day, nope... Kitchen the 7 120Watt floods that get used 4hrs / day hell yeah that's $98/yr at $0.10/KWhr I'm now in California, where that would be $300/yr at $0.31/KWhr (sorry New Yorker but you're not the most Expensive Electricity in the US)

Seeing an Hourly breakdown of my House's electricity usage made me realize things like leaving Ceiling fans on overnight in rooms like my Home Theater room consumed a lot more electricty than I thought. I went from about 350W/hr during the night when no AC was going down to 230W/hr. It adds up.

That said, I leave my Roamio on as the $30/yr that I'd save, I fear would come right back out in early failure. As an Electrical Engineer I don't like to hard power cycle things...


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

phughes200 said:


> I agree. Sorry I started this thread. Time to let it die.


Nothing to be sorry about with asking the question.

I hope you follow your daughters education (indoctrination?) with regard to environmentalism, closely... question everything.

Last thing the world needs is another chicken little.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

I try too. What I find frustrating is that the education seems to do a great job explaining the issues and the root causes but seems to underestimate/ignore the technical challenges and practicality of the solutions and the new environmental issues pose by the solutions.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

phughes200 said:


> I try too. What I find frustrating is that the education seems to do a great job explaining the issues and the root causes but seems to underestimate/ignore the technical challenges and practicality of the solutions and the new environmental issues pose by the solutions.


What's practical depends on what you believe the consequences of a particular action are to oneself, family, friends, humanity, & the planet.

A good example of this are all the earth quakes in Missouri and Texas. If one believes they are caused by the injection of Fracking waste water and you happen to live in a place where you could loose your house or life because of it I am guessing you would believe reducing the amount of waste water that is allowed to be inject is very practical even if it doubles the cost of natural gas. If you are someone who doesn't believe injection of fracking waste water is causing the problem and you will loose your job if the price of natural gas doubles, then I am sure you would think reducing the injection of franking waste water is not practical at all.


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## phughes200 (Jul 24, 2014)

Agree.

There are those that would like to shut off all the coal and nuclear power plants today for very valid concerns. However, I wonder if they would be happy if that meant that they would only have power for limited hours per day. 

Don't get me wrong. I fully believe that one day we will be able to live without coal power plants but it will take time to build the solar/wind/wave/hydro/other plants that will enable this. The technology is rapidly developing.


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## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

phughes200 said:


> Has anybody tried to use a on/off timer with a TiVo? All of my recording and watching occur during a 6 hour time period. The other 18 hours I am just wasting power running the TiVo. Any reason I can't just use a timer to completely turn off the unit during that time?


 I guess you could do it. But how much power are you really saving that would make it worth it? My Tivo is recording all the time wither I'm actually using it or not, which is kind of the point of having a Tivo. To watch programs at your own free time, not when they air. So if you kill power for all those other hours, your TIVO is not recording anything for all those other hours.

Tivo's have lower power HDD's installed in them, GREEN drives that run at a lower RPM and using less power and more quite. How good would it be if your Tivo is recording and in the middle of it, the power is auto killed? Just killing power every day instead of a clean power down like you would a computer, how will something like a DVR, designed to always be on take it's toll?

What savings you get, is it really worth it? You can buy one of them Kill-A-Watt devices. It's easy to use. You can plug in different devices and see how much power it's using. You may find a few other things that will make a much larger impact then the TIVO.

http://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Elec...=1463193977&sr=8-1&keywords=power+usage+meter


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

phughes200 said:


> Has anybody tried to use a on/off timer with a TiVo? All of my recording and watching occur during a 6 hour time period. The other 18 hours I am just wasting power running the TiVo. Any reason I can't just use a timer to completely turn off the unit during that time?


Why? That is very bad for tivo but you might save 5.00$ in power

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk


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## lmacmil (Oct 26, 2015)

Let me throw some actual data into the discussion. I've assumed the Tivo is about 25 watts when on so if that's high the case for turning the Tivo off when not in use becomes even weaker. In any case, 25 watts results in 18 kwH usage in a 30 day month.

My electric usage for 30 days from late January to late February was 355 kwH. We were away from home for 25 of those 30 days so the only things running where were the furnace fan, fridge (recent model), 3 CFL lights inside, some out door lights (about 3 hrs/day), the Tivo, and my modem/router/Ooma. A more typical heating system month would be around 500 kwH, the difference being due to electric cooktop and oven, electric dryer, higher furnace heat setting, more lights, and the TV (typically 3-4 hrs/day) and computer (about 4 hrs/day).

So turning off the Tivo when not in use is unlikely to save more than say 14-15 kwH/month. There are much bigger savings to be had in other areas.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Here are some more real numbers. I put my basic Roamio (with 3TB WD30EURX) on my Kill-A-Watt yesterday. I find it uses 17-18 watts. In max power savings mode it uses 15 watts.

In 24 hours it used .38 kWh. That gets me to 11.62 kWh/mo. My bottom line rate is $.1573 per kWh. So in one month I use, on this box, $1.82 and in a year I use $21.93. This box is lightly used. My other box doesn't have power saving enabled and runs 16 hours every day. It also connects to a 5.1 audio system and 40" LED Sony TV.

By all means enable power saving if there are no adverse effects. But do it to feel good. As for the HDD spin down, start a different thread please.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lmacmil said:


> We were away from home for 25 of those 30 days so the only things running where were the furnace fan, fridge (recent model), 3 CFL lights inside, some out door lights (about 3 hrs/day), the Tivo, and my modem/router/Ooma.


Seems to me if you're away from home for that long you could actually turn the breakers off to most of the house.. With pre-planning _even_ the fridge.. (i.e. eat the food).. Or leave just a couple of breakers on.

I do remember people talking about essentially a house "off switch" near the door within the past several years that would do that -- turn off most breakers and cut off most vampire usage. It probably isn't doable in many cases, but would be useful to design a house electrical layout for that.


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