# Lost - One of Us 4/11 *Spoilers



## BillL (Oct 6, 2004)

Lost is Back!!!


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## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

WOWWWW!!!!

That was AWESOME!


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

Seems more of a set-up episode for the last five shows of the season. Good pace, looking forward to the rest of the season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Speaking as one who's always had faith in the show, it's nice and kind of a relief to see the stuff from the beginning of the season beginning to pay off...


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Nice job weaving all those disparate past events into the fabric of the ongoing mystery.
I've always been uncomfortable with Juliette's smug smirky expression. She IS hot though.
Why would she act as Ben's minion after all we've seen about them in her flashbacks? I SO wanted Sayid to go all inquisitor on her.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Wow, Juliet is really nice and trying to get along with the Losties. Then they have to go and make it all a plot.

Who else thought that Ben's line about Juliet's sister having cancer again was BS? He could have lied about her having cancer again, and then Presto, I cured her!

From the preview:


Spoiler



There is a quick shot of what looks like a book with the words "Ardil 22". Ardil is apparently Brazilian and Ardil 22 means "Catch 22" in Brazilian.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Who else thought that Ben's line about Juliet's sister having cancer again was BS? He could have lied about her having cancer again, and then Presto, I cured her!


A guy lie to a hottie? Never happen!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Sayid and Sawyer were right the whole time.. 

Awesome episode, probably worthy of a rewatch.. Hmm, where's that remote..


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

Can't believe I fell for it


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Right before the end of this episode I was about to go back on my initial thoughts that Juliet was a spy. Glad I didn't.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

That was one quick hour!


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

For once everything started to make sense until the last 2 minutes. Now I'm as "lost" as they are.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Anyone else think Juliette's planning to double-cross Ben? There was something about the look she gave him when he finished going over the plot again, and I thought for that matter that Ben reacted to that look with bit of concern.

Or are the writers just misleading us into thinking that.


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## jonblaze (Jan 10, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Sayid and Sawyer were right the whole time..


Has Sayid ever been wrong? He rarely disappoints.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Great episode. It took me a little bit to remember where we had seen Goodwin from before.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Sayid and Sawyer were right the whole time..


Unless, of course, they're wrong because she's going to double cross Ben...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bdlucas said:


> Anyone else think Juliette's planning to double-cross Ben? There was something about the look she gave him when he finished going over the plot again, and I thought for that matter that Ben reacted to that look with bit of concern.
> 
> Or are the writers just misleading us into thinking that.


I'm thinking that she's still pretty well on Ben's side. Proving that he saved her sister (at least as far as Juliet knows) I think has left her feeling rather indebted. Not that she doesn't have a moral dilemma about it, I think she does. And that may still have to play out.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> Anyone else think Juliette's planning to double-cross Ben? There was something about the look she gave him when he finished going over the plot again, and I thought for that matter that Ben reacted to that look with bit of concern.
> 
> Or are the writers just misleading us into thinking that.


It would be another curve ball to set it up as a double cross. They emphasized Jacks explanation for trusting her, though they could have done this to make more of a shock for us of finding out that she really is a mole. One could assume that Ben promised Juliet that if she did this one thing he would get her home once and for all. Of course this just shows us of how manipulating Ben is again.

I agree that Ben was probably lieing about her sister having cancer again.

It's going to be a nerve racking 5 weeks...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> Anyone else think Juliette's planning to double-cross Ben? There was something about the look she gave him when he finished going over the plot again, and I thought for that matter that Ben reacted to that look with bit of concern.
> 
> Or are the writers just misleading us into thinking that.


I am so mixed up about her. I can't stand the lemon face she makes. I think of the abuse she gave to Kate and Sawyer and yet soooo sweet to Jack. Bleh.

I knew there was going to be some double double cross. I hope that Sawyer and Sayid don't stay quiet because of their past for long. And I loved Jin's line to her that Sun translated - "what do you care!" slam!!!

I actually almost wish they hadn't played the last two minutes till next week and left us wondering some more.

And what has happened with Locke and his dad?

Could the shots of Rachel be just pulled from Ben's magical 'box'? I mean she wanted to see her sister healthy, so that is what she got. Just like Locke wanted his father...so that is what he got.

AND...was there another scene with Ben and Jack? at the table discussing what Jack will do once he gets to camp and such? Could Jack be a mole too? Or is he just a pawn?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Sayid and Sawyer were right the whole time.


Not necessarily. She could have an agenda all her own and be playing the situation against Ben somehow.

(After watching this show for practically 2 seasons, how could anyone take anything at face value?? Or think they have any true answers?)


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I actually almost wish they hadn't played the last two minutes till next week and left us wondering some more.


I was thinking the same thing. I also have enough faith in the writers again that I'm hopeful there was a good reason to play that card in this ep.

This episode was terrific. Lost has really been on a roll.

The look on Sawyer's face when he saw Kate was perfect, very touching. I half expected Kate to brush him off and I almost felt sorry for him in anticipation. Glad it didn't go that way. Then smart writing to have Juliet show up right then and cut off that tender moment before it started looking suspicious to everyone else in the group.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

That last scene with Juliet and Ben made me think. He is talking to her and she seems kinda lost in though, like when she was with Goodwin and she was "not there".


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Btw, I noticed right away that they replaced Juliet's tunic with a tank top, and the first thing I thought was "the boys in the Tivo Community will be very pleased." 

As Juliet walked away from S&S with the case, her expression looked to me like she was thinking, "I can't believe I actually stood those guys down."


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

"Jacob said he would take care of it himself. Unless of course you don't have faith in him. Every woman on this island needs you. If you choose to stay, I promise you, we will save Rachel's life."

Book of Genesis references abound. There Jacob (Patriarch) was married to Rachel (Matriarch). Rachel was unable to conceive for many years. Rachel died in childbirth.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Finally! Answers! 

What was up with all the Stephen King references? Since I'm an alzheimer's patient, and I finished watching it five minutes ago, I forget the details, but in one scene, Juliette, was holding a book with the Stephen King name. Earlier, Ben was talking about her book suggestion.......and saying it was an odd choice. I think it was Carrie, not sure though.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Wow.
Right when Jack said "You're one of us", I'm thinking,
"So does this now make Locke 'one of them' since he doesn't want to leave the island?"

And then they show Juliet scheming with Ben, 

But Juliet's going to doublecross Ben, right?
Right?

(Of course, I can imagine all the complaining if we now went to 6 weeks of repeats)


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

justapixel said:


> Finally! Answers!
> 
> What was up with all the Stephen King references? Since I'm an alzheimer's patient, and I finished watching it five minutes ago, I forget the details, but in one scene, Juliette, was holding a book with the Stephen King name. Earlier, Ben was talking about her book suggestion.......and saying it was an odd choice. I think it was Carrie, not sure though.


It was Carrie.
If you remember from the season opener, Juliet was holding the book club meeting in her house and someone commented that Ben wouldn't like the choice of books.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Speaking as one who's always had faith in the show, it's nice and kind of a relief to see the stuff from the beginning of the season beginning to pay off...


I completely agree, but still, there's thousands of people who will never appreciate those shows where "nothing" happened, at least to their rather limited levels of satisfaction. Me, I say there's NEVER been a bad episode, or for that matter, even a mildly disappointing one.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

I haven't watched Lost for many, many episodes, then just resumed a week or two ago...

I don't think the Others traveled to the island by submarine. Juliet went to sleep in an office, then woke up in a submarine that was already docked. 

I think the method of travel to/from the island is being kept secret.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I guess I'm in the very small minority of people who were disappointed. The Losties finally get access to someone who knows what's going on and the writers wrangle the plot so that nobody gets to ask her anything. Jack's "She's under my protection" was lame. Even if she slept with Jack, that's not a good enough reason for his puppy dog "Leave her alone, she's one of us" attitude. Sayid and Sawyer should have continue to press her either at the medicine drop or on the way back to camp, no matter what she said to them. Both of them rolled over too easily.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

My favorite line of maybe the entire series.

Hurley: "We buried him over there"

Nice little threat to Juliet 

-smak-


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> Btw, I noticed right away that they replaced Juliet's tunic with a tank top, and the first thing I thought was "the boys in the Tivo Community will be very pleased."
> 
> As Juliet walked away from S&S with the case, her expression looked to me like she was thinking, "I can't believe I actually stood those guys down."


She is great with her facial expressions, and I am gaining more respect for her as an actor. Have you seen her in _Running Scared_? She had a small role, but really hit it out of the park - primarily with her facial expressions. I think she adds a lot to LOST.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I guess I'm in the very small minority of people who were disappointed. The Losties finally get access to someone who knows what's going on and the writers wrangle the plot so that nobody gets to ask her anything. Jack's "She's under my protection" was lame. Even if she slept with Jack, that's not a good enough reason for his puppy dog "Leave her alone, she's one of us" attitude.


I thought it was an awesome episode, but as most things go - it wasn't perfect 

I think the whole "She's under my protection" was consistent with Jack's character, and the whole stupid "infatuation" that the survivors have with Jack being their leader, and blindly following him. I certainly wouldn't follow him if I was stuck on that island 



> Sayid and Sawyer should have continue to press her either at the medicine drop or on the way back to camp, no matter what she said to them. Both of them rolled over too easily.


Agreed. IMO, the main reason for that scene was so that the writers could reinforce Juliette's _superiority_ over the survivors. Her ability at being able to think on her feet, being strong and the fact that she herself is a _survivor_...


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

smak said:


> My favorite line of maybe the entire series.
> 
> Hurley: "We buried him over there"
> 
> ...


Strange that I didn't take that comment as threat until you pointed it out. Probably because it was delivered by Hurley, and I never think of him as a threat


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Quick thoughts:

1. As someone else mentioned, Juliet "wasn't there" when discussing the scheming with Ben. She's not blindly following this guy. Even though he may have (in her eyes, or not) saved her sister, she's pissed off at him for other reasons. She tried to kill him (through Jack) and was branded for it.

2. So the "something" happens at the moment of conception. Claire is OK, they had to fake it out with some implant (remotely controller?) But what about Sun? If the pregnancy is an Island miracle, is she in trouble?

3. Is it the Island or Ben's leadership that's turning the Others in to sociopaths? Although the actor still creeps me out, Ethan was a caring doctor, but that _improvisation_ wasn't exactly just slightly bad judgement. Then there's Goodwin -- the way he leaped at A-L (and onto the stake) and how he acted leading up to that moment -- not exactly the caring guy asking Juliet "where were you"? And of course, let's not forget Michael's "solution" of shooting A-L (I'll grudgingly put down Libby as an "accident" but A-L was premeditated). These people just aren't thinking right.

Awesome episode.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I guess I'm in the very small minority of people who were disappointed....


 Me too. Didn't think this was as good as other recent eps. Actually thought it jumped the shark a bit.


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> I completely agree, but still, there's thousands of people who will never appreciate those shows where "nothing" happened, at least to their rather limited levels of satisfaction. Me, I say there's NEVER been a bad episode, or for that matter, even a mildly disappointing one.


I can't agree with you more.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Awesome episode. I fell for Juliette being "one of us" too. Now that we see what really happened, I think she has been with Ben since the time we met her. The whole "let him die" thing was a set up to get Jack on her side. Now the question is: "What does she hope to get from the Losties?"

Totally forgot about Sun! Maybe that is what she wants?

Why weren't the Others surprised when the plane crashed? They seemed like they knew exactly what to do like it had happened before.

So do pregnant women REALLY need the shots? Ethan was giving them to Claire...that we know. But now we know that the recent sickness was caused by an "implant". So did she need them in the first place?

Where the hell are they? What kind maneuvers would a sub make that you had to be druged and strapped down?

How did the Others know that Sawyer killed that man? It wasn't a matter of public record that Mikail could get a hold of. It just happened a day before the accident. 

They answered some minor questions, but as you can see, reinforced the MAJOR ones. Best show on TV.


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## fregienj (Feb 1, 2005)

I was surprised that Jack didn't even flinch when Juliette told him that she dragged Kate into the forest, handcuffed herself to her, acted like she was gassed and *LIED* about it. So it seems like Jack is in on it, or at least part of it!


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

smak said:


> My favorite line of maybe the entire series.
> 
> Hurley: "We buried him over there"
> 
> ...


Nicer still coming from sweet, non-threatening Hurley.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

A great episode. I had most bought Juliet's intention but a small part of me suspected that something was up.

I'm juts a little confused by one thing. What do the others gain by having Juliet infiltrate the losties camp? They seem to already know all about them so what is their endgame?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I guess I'm in the very small minority of people who were disappointed. The Losties finally get access to someone who knows what's going on and the writers wrangle the plot so that nobody gets to ask her anything. Jack's "She's under my protection" was lame. Even if she slept with Jack, that's not a good enough reason for his puppy dog "Leave her alone, she's one of us" attitude. Sayid and Sawyer should have continue to press her either at the medicine drop or on the way back to camp, no matter what she said to them. Both of them rolled over too easily.


+1. Couldn't agree with you more.

And for a complete change this week we had another con on top of a con............... Don't the writers have any new ways of making these characters interact without having to con each other all the time?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What's that old saying? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me one hundred sixty three times, shame on me." There's no reason in the known universe for Jack to trust Julliet. Never trust a woman who knocked you out with one punch.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Speaking as one who's always had faith in the show, it's nice and kind of a relief to see the stuff from the beginning of the season beginning to pay off...


I guess. But that doesn't mean boring filler episodes are suddenly more enjoyable. These past few episodes have, if anything, proven to me that they had to fill in their plan with random stuff a bit too much. All this episode did was get me thinking about what it would have been like if we had gotten answers in the first part of the season.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> What's that old saying? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me one hundred sixty three times, shame on me." There's no reason in the known universe for Jack to trust Julliet. Never trust a woman who knocked you out with one punch.


And is there any reason Kate would trust her???


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

wprager said:


> Ethan was a caring doctor, but that _improvisation_ wasn't exactly just slightly bad judgement.


Remember, we don't know if that whole "treatment in the camp" thing was true, at all. Juliet spun that tale (true or not in part or full) to gain the 815ers' trust. I don't trust anyone's statement unless/until it's verified by a flashback. And even then we've seen things happen in flashbacks that get misinterpreted because we don't know about something ELSE that happened.

And we still don't know ANYTHING about the other's motivation. All we know for sure from this episode is that Ben got Juliet to the Island to cure that specific pregnancy problem.

This episode really f'd with my head. I don't trust anything on this program anymore. I think there's 2-3 layers of more twists before we get to any sort of "real" facts about the island. We haven't even begun to get any of the true history of the island, other than the fact that it was part of a strange "Dahrma" project.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

The question that popped into my head was about Ben lying and not about Julliette's sister. He claimed before that he was born on the island. How is this possible if no one is able to have a child on the island except Claire?

Why are there no older people on the island? Ben and Tom seem to be the oldest and are in mid to late 40's?

At first I thought they kidnapped the children to disperse the gene pool, but if no children can be born then there really isn't a need to spread the gene pool out.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"Mikhail, it's Ben and Juliet! We're walking towards the house! Don't shoot us." LOL


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

They didn't say no one has ever been able to have children. All they said is that no one is currently able to. It's basically children of men confined to one island.

I don't think that Juliet's story about claire is entirely false. Just mostly.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

> What was up with all the Stephen King references?


Stephen is a huge fan of LOST and he interviewed the writers/producers/creators etc for Entertainment Weekly last Fall and I believe having his books in there is nod to him.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

"What's that?"
"It's orange juice ... with a large amount of tranquilizer mixed in."

*gulp*
"You probably shouldn't have drank that so fast."


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Was anyone else thinking about what Ethan meant when he said that the trip was "intense" and that Juliette would not want to be awake during the trip? It made me think of teleportation or the USS Eldridge from the Philadelphia Experiment. Or even passing through some kind of barrier surrounding the island.



Boy Juiliette is some woman. She can knock back a drink, mudwrestle, walk down a dock in nice FMP heels and drop a man with punch like a sailor.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Was anyone else thinking about what Ethan meant when he said that the trip was "intense" and that Juliette would not want to be awake during the trip? It made me think of teleportation or the USS Eldridge from the Philadelphia Experiment. Or even passing through some kind of barrier surrounding the island.
> 
> Boy Juiliette is some woman. She can knock back a drink, mudwrestle, walk down a dock in nice FMP heels and drop a man with punch like a sailor.


When Juliete climbed out of the sub and stood up on that decking, I expected her heels to get stuck in between the planks! They should have told her "You might want to wear sensible shoes where we're going."


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

To answer an earlier question, Jack was not surprised at Juliette's confession because he has an agenda with her. He's obviously in on a plot that we'll find out about soon.

I felt that we got a lot of answers this week. All we need to do is figure out the questions! Count me as one who worked out that Juliette was lying and the whole thing was a plot of some kind. Clues? She was fully awake too quickly when Kate was going for her pockets AND she had a key to the handcuffs. Wassup with dat?

We have been promised five more episodes - and with May Sweeps in a couple of weeks, I don't think we're about to head into a bunch of repeats.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

TonyTheTiger said:


> To answer an earlier question, Jack was not surprised at Juliette's confession because he has an agenda with her. He's obviously in on a plot that we'll find out about soon.
> 
> I felt that we got a lot of answers this week. All we need to do is figure out the questions! Count me as one who worked out that Juliette was lying and the whole thing was a plot of some kind. Clues? She was fully awake too quickly when Kate was going for her pockets AND she had a key to the handcuffs. Wassup with dat?
> 
> We have been promised five more episodes - and with May Sweeps in a couple of weeks, I don't think we're about to head into a bunch of repeats.


I thought there were no repeats for the rest of the season?? Did they say five and it is over or five then the season finale?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

We went over this last week, or so I thought. She had a key to the cuffs because she cuffed herself to kate, which she actually told kate she did. Why is it suspicious to have a key to the cuffs if you intentionally cuffed yourself to someone?


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

1. Please, the use of the phrase 'Jumped the shark' has lost (no pun) all meaning, it has been beaten to death.

2. There will be no repeats, it will run to conclusion in the next 5 episodes.

I was surprised with the reveal that she is a spy. Great turn around, and it setup the tension for the next episode greatly. So, they are coming back in a week. That will get exciting.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Here's a thought. Did the women on the island develop this sickness soon after the Dharma Project moved in? Is something the Dharma Project did the cause of it?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

TonyTheTiger said:


> To answer an earlier question, Jack was not surprised at Juliette's confession because he has an agenda with her. He's obviously in on a plot that we'll find out about soon.


Did I miss something? What was Juliette's confession to Jack? The stuff about Claire or something else?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

What is the timing of ben getting cancer? Was it before the EM pulse (or whatever it was) that desmond caused?

I think Dharma believed the sickness to be contagious, thus explaining the quarantine stuff. Of course, it's equally plausible that they just did that as part of the mind games.

Also, so far juliet doesn't know sun is pregos right?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

'Lost' finds DVR viewers

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?la...8&categoryid=14


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Magister said:


> 1. Please, the use of the phrase 'Jumped the shark' has lost (no pun) all meaning, it has been beaten to death.


Jumped the Dharma Shark!


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

I don't belive anything she said about Ethans purpose w/ Claire. She would have told them anything to gain their trust. The only thing we learned about the others past on this Island is that they are drugged before waking up in a sub. Nothing else was reveled.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> Jumped the Dharma Shark!


I know Fonzie only jumped once, but can you jump the shark on a weekly basis??


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

We already have information that no one else does about the claire situation, though. We know ethan was a doctor. We know vaguely that some injections and other stuff were done to her while in captivity (at the least, some sort of implant).


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Weighing in on Juliet's motives:

Juliet has been pissed at Ben since he reneged on his agreement to send her home after 6 months (so she could be present for the birth of her sisters baby).

On that note, Ben was *absolutely, positively* lying about Juliet's sister's cancer returning (IMHO, of course). But I digress...

As I was saying, Juliet doesn't like Ben and she doesn't trust him. He's manipulated and tricked her over and over again and she's really, really tired of it.

Juliet has her own agenda and motives for what she's doing. She's not going to blindly and obediently follow Ben's script.

However, the point of suspense is whether Juliet's secret agenda is better for the Losties, or better for the Others. She very well may screw both groups over ("I'm already alone.")

However, Ben is even more devious and manipulative than Juliet. He almost surely suspects she'll try to double-cross him and has a contingency plan for that.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Honora said:


> Nicer still coming from sweet, non-threatening Hurley.


After the last few episodes, particularly where he got Sawyer to be the leader, I've realized that Hurley has been a pretty good manipulater all along. I wouldn't say he's threatening (because I have no reason to doubt that he is using his powers for good), but he is more cunning than his cohorts realize.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Did I miss something? What was Juliette's confession to Jack? The stuff about Claire or something else?


She told Jack that she had dragged Kate's unconcious body into the jungle and cuffed herself to her, then pretended to be gassed like the rest of them.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> After the last few episodes, particularly where he got Sawyer to be the leader, I've realized that Hurley has been a pretty good manipulater all along. I wouldn't say he's threatening (because I have no reason to doubt that he is using his powers for good), but he is more cunning than his cohorts realize.


It is being revealed that more and more of the Losties are Con artists....or related to one!


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> Jumped the Dharma Shark!


Jumped the sonic fence (with a tree.)


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

betts4 said:


> It is being revealed that more and more of the Losties are Con artists....or related to one!


So Juliet really is "one of us."


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Fish Man, when did ben trick juliet? He certainly is manipulating her but I don't get the repeated tricking point.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I think Jack is genuinely trusting Juliet. But the thing he doesn't realize is, she WILL do anything to get off that island. That doesn't make her one of them though, and I don't see how he can come to that conclusion. All that means is she'll turn on you at the drop of a hat if it means she can get off that island.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

smak said:


> My favorite line of maybe the entire series.
> 
> Hurley: "We buried him over there"
> 
> ...


That was a great line.

Oh yeah, your friend that was here messin' with us?
We killed him.
hint, hint, nudge, nudge....

Way to set up the whole trust thing and then just tear it down.
All this talk from her, and Jack saying he truly saw it in her eyes, that she wanted to leave.
THEN the convo with Ben and we're right back not knowing what's really going on!
Dang it!!

I agree that S&S let her go to easily, should have at least followed her back.
Heck! Sayid should have never let her get back to camp in the first place without getting answers. ESPECIALLY when she said that if she told them they'd kill her.

But, then again, if they did what "normal" people would do, the show would be long over and all the others would be dead.
(And they'd have to change the name of 24, to 2.)


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Also, so far juliet doesn't know sun is pregos right?


Not that we've seen. So I believe she's unaware.
Gotta admit that Sun & Jin aren't big fans of smirk faced Juliette.

The theme of certain folks being cured with others (pun intended) afflicted continues.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Jericho Dog said:


> I agree that S&S let her go to easily, should have at least followed her back.
> Heck! Sayid should have never let her get back to camp in the first place without getting answers. ESPECIALLY when she said that if she told them they'd kill her.
> 
> But, then again, if they did what "normal" people would do, the show would be long over and all the others would be dead.
> (And they'd have to change the name of 24, to 2.)


Now that you mention it, why couldn't Sawyer take the case back to Jack, with info that Juliette gave him about what to do and Sayid could have kept her as sort of a 'hostage' till Claire was better. And then question her.

Why why why don't these people communicate with each other is the big question. Sayid and Sawyer could have told Jack and the rest of the group, what she said in the jungle. It may (or may not) have changed his view. So she tells everyone about a death and some of things. The losties have been finding out more and more things about each other.

Though, I do think that Juliette would have withstood a lot of torture.


----------



## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> They didn't say no one has ever been able to have children. All they said is that no one is currently able to. It's basically children of men confined to one island.
> 
> I don't think that Juliet's story about claire is entirely false. Just mostly.


Random thought...

Didn't Russo have her baby ON the island? She's still alive!!!


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

flyers088 said:


> I thought there were no repeats for the rest of the season?? Did they say five and it is over or five then the season finale?


5 episodes, and then the 2 hour finale, for 7 more hours of Lost.

Episode titles spoilered, although they're really not very telling...


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I think what Jack said about Juliette was dead on. About seeing it in her eyes that she wants to get off the island more than anyone. I think that's 100% true. And the reason for that is her sister and nephew. As long as someone holds the cards in that respect, she's going to follow that person.

So, she has no allegiance to anyone except those that she thinks can help her get off the island or protect her sister. And Ben (or the Others) is the best chance for that, so she's going to continue to work with them for as long as it helps her single agenda of getting off the island.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I'm back in the camp of wanting Saint Jack dead. What a twit. You're on the island for months and you don't ask your supposed friend who's an Other ANY questions? Terminal lack of curiosity. Jack is a dull boy. 

Sayid should gut the sucka.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jericho Dog said:


> That was a great line.
> 
> Oh yeah, your friend that was here messin' with us?
> We killed him.
> hint, hint, nudge, nudge....


I agree.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Jericho Dog said:


> I agree that S&S let her go to easily, should have at least followed her back.
> Heck! Sayid should have never let her get back to camp in the first place without getting answers. ESPECIALLY when she said that if she told them they'd kill her.


look at it this way: sawyer and sayid both had this huge skeleton in their closet, that NOONE should know about, especially sawyer's secret. and they are not too proud of it, downright ashamed. and they get this reveal thrown into their face.

They have to process:

1. how the hell did she know that?
2. what the hell did the other guy do? OMG!
3. Claire is dying
4. Juliet is really making me feel guilty, almost... hypocritical
5. Juliet's got a pretty nice rack.... for an Other.

well, maybe not the last one... but i don't think it's unreasonable that they have no idea what their next move is and let juliet go save claire's life. In fact, when sawyer says, "don't worry, we cleared our schedule", i'm thinking that she's the only thing, as far as they know, and we know that would save claire, and they are holding her back. i know they are suspicious, but once she showed she really had medical supplies in the case, and not a gun, they should have let her go.

on a lighter note:

Well, if it isn't 3 men and a baby....

I counted Hugo twice...

Hey, I called you hugo, didn't I??


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Here is my question.

It looks like the PLANE crashing on the island was either caused by the Others or the island itself. The Others didn't seem to KNOW who was on the plane at least not initially. So how were they able to get every detail of every person on that plane is my question. Who else KNEW Sawyer just killed a guy the night before the flight? Where is this information coming from?


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

DCIFRTHS said:


> She is great with her facial expressions, and I am gaining more respect for her as an actor. Have you seen her in _Running Scared_? She had a small role, but really hit it out of the park - primarily with her facial expressions. I think she adds a lot to LOST.


To be honest I'm getting a bit annoyed of seeing closeups of her face over and over again. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I was watching it in 16:9, but in the 4:3 crop that ABC thrusts on the non-HD viewers is wearing me out with the face closeups. (First it was Jack usually getting the lens in his face, now it seems to be Juliet.)



TAsunder said:


> But that doesn't mean boring filler episodes are suddenly more enjoyable. These past few episodes have, if anything, proven to me that they had to fill in their plan with random stuff a bit too much. All this episode did was get me thinking about what it would have been like if we had gotten answers in the first part of the season.


I left this episode feeling the same way. Signal to noise ratio on this show is so out of whack and that dampens my overall enjoyment of it, especially when interesting episodes like this one eventually come down the pipe. It would be like taking a 2l bottle of your favorite soda, diluting it with water to 8l, and then saying that the 25% soda solution tastes as good as the 100% soda solution.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> Here is my question.
> 
> It looks like the PLANE crashing on the island was either caused by the Others or the island itself.


I thought they established already that the plane crash was caused by desmond not hitting the button, thereby causing a magnetic incident...?


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

I thought Juliette's line to Jack "I'm already on my own" could be interpreted a few different ways. She's "on her own" as a spy in the camp. Or she's "on her own" trying to get off the island. Either way, I believe she doesn't care one bit about the Losties. Maybe she's working for the other "others" that have been hinted about.

The revelation about the island cancer/pregnancy issue was interesting. Juliette was apparently brought to the island to fix the pregnancy problem but why is it important for pregnant women to give birth there? It goes back to the original question of the island's purpose. Did Dharma go there for an honest research project and learn things about the island that changed their plans? So many questions....


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> Here is my question.
> 
> It looks like the PLANE crashing on the island was either caused by the Others or the island itself. The Others didn't seem to KNOW who was on the plane at least not initially. So how were they able to get every detail of every person on that plane is my question. Who else KNEW Sawyer just killed a guy the night before the flight? Where is this information coming from?


I noticed what looked like news feeds when Ben took Juliet to the place to watch the film of her sister. Maybe the news agencies were reporting that one of the passengers on the missing plane was wanted for questioning for a murder the night before the flight left?

I have *nothing* to back that up. Pure conjecture.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

hefe said:


> 5 episodes, and then the 2 hour finale, for 7 more hours of Lost.
> 
> Episode titles spoilered, although they're really not very telling...


It's actually very telling.



Spoiler



Two more Wizard of Oz references and two for Alice in Wonderland. The Man Behind the Curtain reference COULD be talking about Jacob.



Goodtimes.

Greg


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

durl said:


> The revelation about the island cancer/pregnancy issue was interesting. Juliette was apparently brought to the island to fix the pregnancy problem but why is it important for pregnant women to give birth there? It goes back to the original question of the island's purpose. Did Dharma go there for an honest research project and learn things about the island that changed their plans? So many questions....


A better question might be why is it important for them to conceive there? From what juliet said, you'd think they could just go off the island for a reproduction vacation and then come back pregnant. Unless there is more to the infertility than that.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Who else thought that Ben's line about Juliet's sister having cancer again was BS? He could have lied about her having cancer again, and then Presto, I cured her!


Gah... I can't believe I didn't even think of that. I bet that's what happened.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

gchance said:


> It's actually very telling.


Well maybe in a very general sense, but I just mean it doesn't say anything plot-specific.


Spoiler



I would assume that we are going to find something more out about this Jacob before the season is done, anyway.

To me The Brig sounds like perhaps something from Desmond's military service, so maybe that's a Desmond episode, and Greatest Hits sounds like a musical reference, so I'm guessing a Charlie episode.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NatasNJ said:


> Here is my question.
> 
> It looks like the PLANE crashing on the island was either caused by the Others or the island itself. The Others didn't seem to KNOW who was on the plane at least not initially. So how were they able to get every detail of every person on that plane is my question. Who else KNEW Sawyer just killed a guy the night before the flight? Where is this information coming from?


I think this is supposed to show the extent of the support system the Others have in the Real World. Within minutes of the plane crashing, Ben was in contact with somebody in (it seems) the US who already had a passenger manifest, and Ben seems to take for granted that the people on the other end of the satellite hook-up have the capability to get full profiles on all the passengers tout suite.

And by the time Juliette is flaunting her knowledge, they would have had months to work on it...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Alfer2003 said:


> Stephen is a huge fan of LOST and he interviewed the writers/producers/creators etc for Entertainment Weekly last Fall and I believe having his books in there is nod to him.


And King recently sold the movie rights for "The Dark Tower" to the "Lost" guys for $19. The least they can do is give him some free exposure (as if he needs it ).


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> However, the point of suspense is whether Juliet's secret agenda is better for the Losties, or better for the Others. She very well may screw both groups over ("I'm already alone.")
> 
> However, Ben is even more devious and manipulative than Juliet. He almost surely suspects she'll try to double-cross him and has a contingency plan for that.


Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given.

I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

mightyb said:


> Random thought...
> 
> Didn't Russo have her baby ON the island? She's still alive!!!


I was thinking this too, last night. But now I can't recall if she gave birth to Danielle on the island, or just while on the research expedition. In either event, the point raised by a previous poster about Ben being born on the island is a good one. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time Ben had lied about something....

Some other random thoughts:

1. I wonder how long the trip to the island took. If they had her strapped down and unconscious the whole way, and it was a many-hour trip, was she catheterized and nourished? (That question is from my medical professional/cynical wife). Or was it somehow a short trip?

2. So nobody that saw Otherville wanted to break camp at the beach in favor of moving into the now-abandoned but perfectly nice houses?

3. In the scene where Juliet drank the OJ, they were sitting in front of a sign for an airline called something like "Hererat Airlines" or "Herarat Airlines" - anyone able to unscramble that into something meaningful?

4. In the scene where Rachel and Juliet leave each other, at the gates of Mittelos, there's a symbol on the wall of the building that looks a lot like an hourglass. Made me think of time, and the importance of time, since Mittelos = "Lost Time" and there have been lots of theories about time shifting (especially considering Desmond's story line).


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Fish Man, when did ben trick juliet? He certainly is manipulating her but I don't get the repeated tricking point.


Repeatedly telling her he would send her home (several times in this episode's flashbacks, and at least once earlier this season, during his surgery) and then reneging on that promise. That's enough for starters.

We learned in an earlier episode, and it was repeated in this one, that when she was "hired" her stint on the island was supposed to be 6 months.

Ben had initially promised she'd be back "in the outside world" in time to be present for her sister giving birth, and then reneged.

When he reneged, he told Juliet that her sister "would never give birth" and would be dead anyway because her cancer had returned. I believe that was a bald faced lie. He was then so cold as to deny Juliet the chance to be with her sister in her dying days (even if it was a lie that she was dying, Juliet believed she was).

Ben has shown a repeated pattern of breaking promises to Juliet. (He's clearly a devious, manipulating bastard to everyone.) Juliet is clearly intelligent enough to have figured out by now what a lying BS artist he is. If I were in her shoes, I sure as hell wouldn't trust him!

What did he promise her for a "reward" if she helped with this current deception regarding Claire? To send her home? Yeah right!  Where has she heard that one before?!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Well, maybe what he told her about her sister wasn't a lie. And according to what he said in this episode, she was supposed to complete her job before she could leave. Maybe he estimated it would take 6 months. That's more like if your boss tells you that you only need to be at work for half a day and then you fail to complete your duties, he tells you that you have to stay until you are done. Not really a trick per se, but definitely a broken promise.

But I guess coercing locke into bombing the sub would be a bit of a trick. However, I think that shows he was going to send jack and juliet home otherwise.

Overall I think Ben has been just honest enough with her so that she would believe him. What's her alternative, anyway? To just die on the island of old age with a bunch of plane survivors who don't shower enough?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I doubt if Juliette would have held out for long if Sayid or Sawyer had decided to get information from her by force. I'm pretty sure though, that she would have held out longer than the recently released British sailors.

I hope that in some episode soon that the writers remember that Jin is the only real tough guy on the island and let him get some answers and settle some scores the old fashioned way.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Overall I think Ben has been just honest enough with her so that she would believe him. What's her alternative, anyway? To just die on the island of old age with a bunch of plane survivors who don't shower enough?


That thought is just such a great chuckle! Sorry but Ben has lied and lied - to all he meets, as the need fits. Bug eyed b*st*rd.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Right, but the genius of ben is that he knows when to give a morsel of truth to make people trust him. Otherwise he'd be dead by now.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jstkiddn said:


> I noticed what looked like news feeds when Ben took Juliet to the place to watch the film of her sister. Maybe the news agencies were reporting that one of the passengers on the missing plane was wanted for questioning for a murder the night before the flight left?


You're talking about Kate, right?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Right, but the genius of ben is that he knows when to give a morsel of truth to make people trust him. Otherwise he'd be dead by now.


Okay, that is true. He is still Bug eyed! (and even creepier with those glasses)


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mightyb said:


> Random thought...
> 
> Didn't Russo have her baby ON the island? She's still alive!!!


And did Rousso (sp) have Alex because she was already pregnant with her before coming to the island ala Claire? That makes us wonder about Sun and her pregnancy. Will she miscarry?


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Spoilerized TV.com info about upcoming episodes (nothing too specific, just general focus information, I promise)



Spoiler



D.O.C. - focus on Sun, Juliet, and (separately) Desmond
The Brig - Locke and his father (finally!)
The Man Behind the Curtain - focus on Horace & Olivia (Others) and their connection to Dharma
Greatest Hits - it is, indeed, a Charlie-centric episode

No info yet on the two-part Through the Looking Glass


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Ben had initially promised she'd be back "in the outside world" in time to be present for her sister giving birth, and then reneged.


I don't think Ben ever promised that. The Mittelos guy(Richard?) did, but not Ben.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

AJRitz said:


> Spoilerized TV.com info about upcoming episodes (nothing too specific, just general focus information, I promise)
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



What about Catch-22?


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Did anyone else think of Alice in Wonderland when the pretty blonde drank the strange liquid, then went out like a light and woke up in a magical place? That was the first thing I thought of.


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

danterner said:


> 3. In the scene where Juliet drank the OJ, they were sitting in front of a sign for an airline called something like "Hererat Airlines" or "Herarat Airlines" - anyone able to unscramble that into something meaningful?


The folks on TWOP think it could be "her(Julia) a rat" Herarat is a synonym for hirsuite, or a play on Mt Ararat - where Noah's Ark is

/got nothing original.


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## jgerry (Aug 29, 2001)

Count me as one who really wanted Sawyer and Sayid to push Juliet WAY harder for information. I think this whole idea of everyone not questioning her in depth to get answers is just ridiculous! She knows things, the losties know she knows things. How could you not just beat her senseless until she told you? Seriously. I don't get it.

What I do get, however, is Lost in High-Def.  Elizabeth Mitchell is so very easy on the eyes, and she looks awesome in HD. Plus, she's proving herself to be an excellent actress.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> The folks on TWOP think it could be "her(Julia) a rat" Herarat is a synonym for hirsuite, or a play on Mt Ararat - where Noah's Ark is
> 
> /got nothing original.


HERARAT is an anagram for EARHART, as in Amelia Earhart.

BTW, the old woman who was at the book club meeting in "Tale of Two Cities" was named Amelia.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Does everyone accept that any flashback is 100% true? While we may not understand what we see, I do accept it as 100%.

I think that Julia is much more involved in the power structure of the others. Remember, she was in the Pearl with Ben after her big arguement. Who else but a fellow power player would be traveling with Ben?

I wonder if we will get any more Dharma info before the end of the season.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

I think it's important that the women have babies on the island because nobody is permitted to leave. They're in effect prisoners, just like Juliet.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> I think it's important that the women have babies on the island because nobody is permitted to leave. They're in effect prisoners, just like Juliet.


Well, at least a few people have left and come back. We don't know whether anyone else was brought to the island like Juliet... maybe everyone else is there voluntarily.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

DLiquid said:


> "Jacob said he would take care of it himself. Unless of course you don't have faith in him. Every woman on this island needs you. If you choose to stay, I promise you, we will save Rachel's life."
> 
> Book of Genesis references abound. There Jacob (Patriarch) was married to Rachel (Matriarch). Rachel was unable to conceive for many years. Rachel died in childbirth.


No one picked up on this so I'll reply to myself . I just wanted to mention that in Genesis, the son Rachel died giving birth to was named Benjamin.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Jstkiddn said:


> I noticed what looked like news feeds when Ben took Juliet to the place to watch the film of her sister. Maybe the news agencies were reporting that one of the passengers on the missing plane was wanted for questioning for a murder the night before the flight left?
> 
> I have *nothing* to back that up. Pure conjecture.


I agree. It's that plus a healthy does of suspension of disbelief on our part.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Magister said:


> Does everyone accept that any flashback is 100% true? While we may not understand what we see, I do accept it as 100%.


Yes. If the writers were giving false flashbacks or allowing themselves an escape along those lines, it would entirely ruin the credibility of the show.

People say all the time that you can't trust anything you see on that show, but I don't think they mean that literally. If you really couldn't trust _anything_, there wouldn't be any point in watching week to week.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Overall I think Ben has been just honest enough with her so that she would believe him.QUOTE]
> 
> Don't forget that when her and Ben were down in the hatch (and being eavesdropped on by the hated character who hid the diamonds in the toilet), she asked him how he was going to do something and Ben said (paraphrasing) "the way I always get things done - find out his weak spot and then exploit it."
> 
> So Juliet is perfectly aware that Ben's M.O. is to exploit weak spots - and she's certainly intelligent enough to understand that her weak spot is her love for her sister and her sister's daughter.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> A better question might be why is it important for them to conceive there? From what juliet said, you'd think they could just go off the island for a reproduction vacation and then come back pregnant. Unless there is more to the infertility than that.


Or, in Vaudevillian terms:

Patient: It hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Don't do that.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

durl said:


> Maybe she's working for the other "others" that have been hinted about.


You did NOT just go there...


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I agree.


I noticed that.

nice choice!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

What about this HDTV shot of Rachell's 'cancer' test results?

http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rh5U5QPyjtI/AAAAAAAAD-M/3Iiqn92vvrs/s1600-h/racheschartmalel.jpg

MALE, 5'11", 197 LBS

A continuity error or...

(via AVS Forum)


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

The pregnancy issue would be important if the Island is supposed to be a kind of Ark for humanity, in case the outside world gets destroyed. 

That Mikhail & Ms. Klugh were so willing to die for the "cause" and the attitude of the other people we've gotten to know suggest that while their being on the Island may have started out as research, it's turned into a Doomsday cult. 

Any thoughts?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

modnar said:


> Great episode. It took me a little bit to remember where we had seen Goodwin from before.


Where had we seen him before? And is he dead or alive? I honestly can not keep up.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

mwhip said:


> Where had we seen him before? And is he dead or alive? I honestly can not keep up.





Spoiler



He went to the tail section and blended in with the tailies and is now dead


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mwhip said:


> Where had we seen him before? And is he dead or alive? I honestly can not keep up.


Dead. He and Ana-Lucia had a fight and she won. Staked or something. He went to the Tailies beach and Ethan to the Losties.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Dead. He and Ana-Lucia had a fight and she won. Staked or something. He went to the Tailies beach and Ethan to the Losties.


Thanks. All those "Others" males look the same...big, white and dirty so I can never tell one from the other.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Great episode and not sure what to think about it all yet. But, it STILL makes me wonder and want more info on the following:

Walt and Michael - What happened with them? The Others let them go, but why? And on a side note, did anyone read that those two actors left the show? I thought for sure there'd be something about them by now...

Dharma - Seems that this season they have left that story behind. We've really learned nothing new as what Dharma was and what, if anything, their connection to the Others is. 

The other thing that perhaps confuses me about this show is that it's almost three years in viewer time, but only, what, a couple of months for the Lost characters on the island? So things that I have long forgotten about are theoretically still fresh in the minds of the Losties. BTW, I have the same trouble with 24 sometimes as well. I guess I'll have to sit sometime, maybe when the series is completely over, and watch every episode one after the other on DVD.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Walt and Michael - What happened with them? The Others let them go, but why? And on a side note, did anyone read that those two actors left the show? I thought for sure there'd be something about them by now...


I think the actor who played Walt was aging too quickly in comparison to Walt the character, so they had to axe him.


----------



## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Walt and Michael - What happened with them? The Others let them go, but why? And on a side note, did anyone read that those two actors left the show? I thought for sure there'd be something about them by now...


I just read a SciFi article about a new show (or movie...can't remember) that Harold is in. All of his references to "Lost" were in the past tense. Not sure if that means anything.

I loved this episode. They really fleshed out alot in a short amount of time. And the end threw me for a loop, too.


----------



## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

I agree with an earlier poster who said the Sub is not the transport method. I think they get there some other way and are placed in the sub to think that is how they arrived. This would lead them to believe it is the way back as well. Ben had to let the sub get blown up because if he did not Juliet would know the sub was fake. Maybe they are not able to go back. Maybe Ethan was never on the island prior to bringing Juliet?

Jeff


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Speaking of the sub blowing up, I notice that the position it was parked in in this episode is exactly where the explosion happened...


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Dharma - Seems that this season they have left that story behind. We've really learned nothing new as what Dharma was and what, if anything, their connection to the Others is.


I would agree, but there are still a lot of references to links between the Others and Dharma, Ben & Juliet was in the Pearl Hatch. The operation where the female died on the operating table, the scrubs had Dharma logos. I don't think Dharma is gone, just not a focus for the time being.


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

mitchb2 said:


> I just read a SciFi article about a new show (or movie...can't remember) that Harold is in. All of his references to "Lost" were in the past tense. Not sure if that means anything.
> 
> I loved this episode. They really fleshed out alot in a short amount of time. And the end threw me for a loop, too.


Harold was SUPPOST to come back for finale this year but rumor has it he doesn't want to come back for some reason. So odds are he won't appear again.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

gchance said:


> It's actually very telling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just realized there could be some references to


Spoiler



Alice in Wonderland


 last night.

- Juliette drinking the OJ/tranquilizers


Spoiler



"Drink Me"



- her coming up thru the sub's porthole was sort of like a


Spoiler



rabbit hole


----------



## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> What about Catch-22?


Ooops. As to that one:



Spoiler



Catch-22 appears to be primarily Desmond-centric.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jeffo13 said:


> I agree with an earlier poster who said the Sub is not the transport method. I think they get there some other way and are placed in the sub to think that is how they arrived. This would lead them to believe it is the way back as well. Ben had to let the sub get blown up because if he did not Juliet would know the sub was fake. Maybe they are not able to go back. Maybe Ethan was never on the island prior to bringing Juliet?
> 
> Jeff


+1. A submarine ride from the Oregon coast to the South Pacific would take weeks. There's no way she stayed drugged for that length of time without any indication when she woke up that she'd been "tampered" with.

Great episode.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

AICN lists this as the flashback folks coming up... thought it was worth mentioning because of #20!



Spoiler



3.17 Desmond Hume
3.18 Jin & Sun Kwon
3.19 Jack Shephard
3.20 Karen & Gerald DeGroot
3.21 Charlie Pace
3.22-23 Benjamin Linus


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

acej80 said:


> I would agree, but there are still a lot of references to links between the Others and Dharma, Ben & Juliet was in the Pearl Hatch. The operation where the female died on the operating table, the scrubs had Dharma logos. I don't think Dharma is gone, just not a focus for the time being.


That's true, but to me, it seems that the Others are using the Dharma stuff much the same way as the Losties are using it. They stumbled upon it and are using it for what they can. We STILL don't know what the purpose of Dharma was and why they are no longer there.

But, that might be covered in another season. So far each season has focused on something esle:

Season 1) The Losties survival, the mysteries of the Island and the initial contact with the Others
Season 2) Primary focus on the tailies and the discovery of all the Dharma stuff. Outside of Ben's capture, not too much about the Others until towards the end
Season 3) Primarily focus on the Others

My guess is that Season 4 will focus primarily on the Others connection with Dharma.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Definitely agree that the sub is not the method of transportation, and is both a way to dupe incoming people as to the method of travel used, and to dupe current island residents to the fact there might be an easy method off the island.

And because of that, i'm thinking the real method on and off the island is probably tied in to the whole Lost mystery.

-smak-


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

I assumed that they took a plane for most of the distance, but use the sub for the last leg of the journey. If they are to be believed at all, the sub is their way off the island, but it is a short hop to a neighboring island with a small air strip. That's where they land to take people to the island, and that's where they disembark from also. They drugged her so she wouldn't protest. It wasn't where she expected to be going. This of course doesn't explain how Michael got off the island in that boat, unless he was lied to just like everyone else.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

jamesbobo said:


> Here's a thought. Did the women on the island develop this sickness soon after the Dharma Project moved in? Is something the Dharma Project did the cause of it?


I am sort of thinking that. Come to the Island, and Cancer is either cured or cannot be contracted. But maybe if something on the Island gets off, it would cause mass death to the outside world.

I think Dharma came, things change or they realized what was happening, and now they have to keep everyone on the Island until they can make sure taking a "vaccine" off the Island wouldn't actually cause death.

Or maybe the Dharma folks don't want the world to know about it so that they can be the only provider of it when they announce their "discovery" to the world.

Regarding what AICN reports for the flashback in ep 3.20.......cool!

Oh, and if you anagram the complete Herarat Aviation, there are many combinations with the word *ovarian* in there.......


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

DCIFRTHS said:


> She is great with her facial expressions, and I am gaining more respect for her as an actor. Have you seen her in _Running Scared_? She had a small role, but really hit it out of the park - primarily with her facial expressions. I think she adds a lot to LOST.


I was thinking about her facial expressions during the show. That placid look she used on Sayid, Sawyer and even Ben, is her defence look. It's like a shade has come down and she's not letting anybody read what she's thinking or feeling from her expression. It's especially the eyes. They look almost dead.

She didn't have this look in the car with her sister, or at any time before she got to the Island. I think it only showed up after Ben wouldn't let her leave when her 6 months were up. Remember, she had a tantrum/crying jag, and then got control of herself while looking in the mirror. It looked like that's when she decided that she couldn't trust anybody, especially Ben, and decided not to give anything away.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

jlb said:


> I am sort of thinking that. Come to the Island, and Cancer is either cured or cannot be contracted.


what about rose? her cancer went into remission


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> what about rose? her cancer went into remission


And if we go by the example of Locke, it's not just cancer...


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

betts4 said:


> AND...was there another scene with Ben and Jack? at the table discussing what Jack will do once he gets to camp and such? Could Jack be a mole too? Or is he just a pawn?


Say it ain't so! If we can't trust Jack, who can we trust. Unless he and Locke have been told some huge secret that really makes the Others into "good guys."

Hurley didn't even mention that Ethan hung Charlie and left him for dead.



smak said:


> And because of that, I'm thinking the real method on and off the island is probably tied in to the whole Lost mystery.


And maybe also tied in to where the Others are right now. I guess it's good the Losties haven't moved into Otherville since they're coming back in a week, but I can't believe no one even suggested it. You'd think Sawyer would at least go to Ben's library and borrow a few books.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> I assumed that they took a plane for most of the distance, but use the sub for the last leg of the journey. If they are to be believed at all, the sub is their way off the island, but it is a short hop to a neighboring island with a small air strip. That's where they land to take people to the island, and that's where they disembark from also...


+1 :up:


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> +1. A submarine ride from the Oregon coast to the South Pacific would take weeks. There's no way she stayed drugged for that length of time without any indication when she woke up that she'd been "tampered" with.
> 
> Great episode.


It was never implied that the sub went all the way from Oregon to South Pacific. She was tranquilized at the lab's own airport, so presumably they flew from there to somewhere else, then boarded the sub for the final leg of the journey.


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## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> what about rose? her cancer went into remission


Rose who?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mightyb said:


> Rose who?


She's the black woman who has been hiding in the bushes the past few weeks.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> What about this HDTV shot of Rachell's 'cancer' test results?
> 
> http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rh5U5QPyjtI/AAAAAAAAD-M/3Iiqn92vvrs/s1600-h/racheschartmalel.jpg
> 
> ...


Doesn't say much for Juliet's ability as a doctor if she missed that.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> What's her alternative, anyway? To just die on the island of old age with a bunch of plane survivors who don't shower enough?


I have another theory -- for her death, that is. What if Juliet herself is pregnant? They showed her with Goodwin -- what was the purpose of that scene (we're not in May sweeps yet)? I realize the Others are obviously practicing some form of conception prevention, but it would not be too far for Juliet's character to want to try something out (after all, she experimented on her sister) if she was sure it would work.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bananfish said:


> ... her weak spot is her love for her sister and her sister's daughter.


I believe this is the second reference to her sister's *son* being a girl. Someone else mentioned her "niece". Yes, just a nit-pick.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

danplaysbass said:


> A great episode. I had most bought Juliet's intention but a small part of me suspected that something was up.
> 
> I'm juts a little confused by one thing. What do the others gain by having Juliet infiltrate the losties camp? They seem to already know all about them so what is their endgame?


I haven't seen this answered yet, but think it's an important question. Ben doesn't do anything that doesn't benefit HIM or those he represents (Jacob?)

I'm betting the Others DO know about Sun's pregnancy, so Juliet is there to monitor Sun and to learn what she can about her pregnancy and the island's influence on it.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

wprager said:


> I have another theory -- for her death, that is. What if Juliet herself is pregnant? They showed her with Goodwin -- what was the purpose of that scene (we're not in May sweeps yet)?


I thought the purpose was to dispel speculation from the season opener that Juliet was crying in the opening scene because she had just broken up with Ben, who she seemingly was in love with. We now know she was crying for other reasons, and she definitely was NOT in love with Ben. (In other words, it was an answer to an early question.)

By the way, did anyone notice that "Downtown" was playing in the car when Juliet was with Rachel at Mittelos? The same song Juliet popped into the CD player before the book club meeting. I'm sure Juliet associates that song with Rachel.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

wprager said:


> I have another theory -- for her death, that is. What if Juliet herself is pregnant? They showed her with Goodwin -- what was the purpose of that scene (we're not in May sweeps yet)?


We know she was in bed with Goodwin, but we don't really know that they were sleeping together.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> We know she was in bed with Goodwin, but we don't really know that they were sleeping together.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> What is the timing of ben getting cancer? Was it before the EM pulse (or whatever it was) that desmond caused?


Ben told Juliette about the cancer, and then the plane crashed. We learned a while back that the plane crashed because of the EM pulse. After the crash, when Ben and Juliette went to see the trigger happy Russian guy at the communication station, Ben said something about their conversation being yesterday. So Juliette learned about Ben's cancer 1 day before the plane crash/EM pulse.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> it STILL makes me wonder and want more info on the following:
> 
> Walt and Michael - What happened with them?


shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Do you remember nothing? Whenever we go about asking questions about things, no matter how insignificant, eventually the writers end up throwing some bit in there to appease us. If you start asking about them, they might bring them back. And if I have to hear another "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaalt" I'm gonna find where you live and hunt you down.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Did anyone else think it was odd that there were already news reports of Flight 815 missing when Ben and Juliet showed up to Mikhail's place? I got the impression that B&J walked there directly after Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin to infiltrate the survivors and they probably didn't take more than a couple of hours to get there. By that time, the plane probably wouldn't have even been scheduled to land in LAX and there definitely wouldn't be info on the news already.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Hurley didn't even mention that Ethan hung Charlie and left him for dead.


Nor about Ethan killing Steve (or whoever it was that kept having their name mixed up)


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

drew2k said:


> By the way, did anyone notice that "Downtown" was playing in the car when Juliet was with Rachel at Mittelos? The same song Juliet popped into the CD player before the book club meeting. I'm sure Juliet associates that song with Rachel.


I noticed it and then had the song in my head all day today!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Ben told Juliette about the cancer, and then the plane crashed..... So Juliette learned about Ben's cancer 1 day before the plane crash/EM pulse.


Actually, Juliette told Ben. So we assume that she told him right away (from her demeanor), but all we know for sure is that Ben learned about the cancer the day before the crash.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

We now know, from the conversation between Ben and Mikhail, that the others didn't set up the plane to crash beforehand. It appears to have been a surprise to them.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Doesn't say much for Juliet's ability as a doctor if she missed that.


Or she's a *great* Doctor for inducing that pregnancy!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> Did anyone else think it was odd that there were already news reports of Flight 815 missing when Ben and Juliet showed up to Mikhail's place? I got the impression that B&J walked there directly after Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin to infiltrate the survivors and they probably didn't take more than a couple of hours to get there. By that time, the plane probably wouldn't have even been scheduled to land in LAX and there definitely wouldn't be info on the news already.


The plane would have turned off course and lost radio contact hours before it was due at LAX.

But I didn't really notice the timing, so I don't know if that makes it realistic.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Did anyone else think it was odd that there were already news reports of Flight 815 missing when Ben and Juliet showed up to Mikhail's place? I got the impression that B&J walked there directly after Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin to infiltrate the survivors and they probably didn't take more than a couple of hours to get there. By that time, the plane probably wouldn't have even been scheduled to land in LAX and there definitely wouldn't be info on the news already.


Interesting point. You're right, Ben and Juliet went over to Flambe` right after the crash. We know that after 6 hours 815 tried an emergency landing at Fiji, blew 2 more hours, wound up 1000 miles off course and crashed. So say 11 hours total, from takeoff to seeing the news footage on the screens. The flight would have taken just over 13 hours had it been successful.

There would have been alerts already in the system, but news reports? Seems a little early. Course, we will probably just have to believe - it's the only way Mikhail could figure out which plane it was that crashed.

(I wonder if Web Master Mikhail used Internet Explorer or a Dharma-logoed version of something like Firefox instead?  )


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> (I wonder if Web Master Mikhail used Internet Explorer or a Dharma-logoed version of something like Firefox instead?  )


Had to be IE with the rotating Dharma logo in the upper right.

Does Juliet know that Claire is Jack's half-sister? I expected her to throw that in his face during the "let me go get the supplies" speech. (I also expected Jack to send Kate with Juliet to get the supplies. Both to "protect" her and to keep an eye on her).


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

aindik said:


> Had to be IE with the rotating Dharma logo in the upper right.
> 
> Does Juliet know that Claire is Jack's half-sister? I expected her to throw that in his face during the "let me go get the supplies" speech. (I also expected Jack to send Kate with Juliet to get the supplies. Both to "protect" her and to keep an eye on her).


Oooh, bonus evil points - MS and Dharma together!  I also expected Kate to go along, but Jack is back in Pure Doofus Mode so what can you say.

Hey devdogaz, here's another mind bender for you. If Oceanic 815 did fly for 8 hours (mostly) eastbound it should have crashed at night. The flight took off at 1455, or roughly 3 hours before sunset in Sydney (and 1 hour before in Fiji).

There is a solution to this problem, but it involves calling the pilot a liar and I have more respect for the dead than that.

Okay, turns out I don't. He's a liar - they flew for 12 - 14 hours, then crashed. This could put them back in daylight AND put them overdue in LA, which would lead to the news stories on TV.

No wonder the monster got him.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

So with seeing Julia with the gas mask at the end of the episode does that mean it WAS julia we saw last week?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

mwhip said:


> Thanks. All those "Others" males look the same...big, white and dirty so I can never tell one from the other.


See me rollin'
In my Dharma sub
Look at me, I'm white and dirty, white and dirty


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

MickeS said:


> She's the black woman who has been hiding in the bushes the past few weeks.


It bugged me when they had the big "powow" about Juliet with all the group, but the ONLY people front and center or that you see clearly at all are the regular cast! :down:


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

When Juliet said to Jack, "what about you? why do you trust me?" I yelled at my screen, "Because you have Stockholm Syndrome!" Honestly I can't think of another reason. If he's a spy too, or brainwashed, then why did they need to have that conversation at all? 

I still don't understand why nobody is talking about moving into the others' housing. Wouldn't you think Sayid or Sawyer or Kate would suggest that? Or if not live there, at least want to see what equipment, communications, etc. could be salvaged from there? Look through their files and see what they could learn about the Others? It's not like Juliette is the only possible source of information about the Others, when their settlement is sitting there totally intact. 

Great ep though. Glad to see the show back on track.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I thought the purpose was to dispel speculation from the season opener that Juliet was crying in the opening scene because she had just broken up with Ben, who she seemingly was in love with. We now know she was crying for other reasons, and she definitely was NOT in love with Ben.


Now looking back, maybe she was crying because she had found out that Goodwin was dead. Maybe she blames Ben for sending him to his death...which is another reason she may double-cross him.



LordKronos said:


> Ben told Juliette about the cancer, and then the plane crashed. We learned a while back that the plane crashed because of the EM pulse. After the crash, when Ben and Juliette went to see the trigger happy Russian guy at the communication station, Ben said something about their conversation being yesterday. So Juliette learned about Ben's cancer 1 day before the plane crash/EM pulse.


I'm beginning to think that maybe the EMP didn't cause the plane to crash, but rather the "magic box"...as Ben himself said it, just when he finds out he has a tumor on his spine, a spinal surgeon "falls out of the sky."


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

smickola said:


> Now looking back, maybe she was crying because she had found out that Goodwin was dead.


Not unless she has psychic powers. She was crying just before the book club, which is when the plane crashed, which was over a month before Goodwin died.



> I'm beginning to think that maybe the EMP didn't cause the plane to crash, but rather the "magic box"


So you think that was just extremely coincidental timing?


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Really good episode. I love Juliet's ambiguity.

I'm going to take Juliet at face value of what the producers are showing us. That is, she's a plant by Ben. Could she double cross Ben? Sure, but I'm going to assume she's working for him - and even if she double crosses him, he planted her there for a purpose. Possibilities are:

1. They need Sun - the other pregnant woman. Assuming they know about it. Given how they knew about Sawyer's murder of the old man, it's possible.
2. They need more information from Claire - which doesn't seem likely from tonight's episode.
3. She's there to kill Charlie, perhaps as a way to redeem herself. They don't seem to be very forgiving of people who murder their own; Michael killed AL, they almost killed Juliet for her committing murder on the beach.

What about Claire's implant? Perhaps the "withdraw" statement is correct. It could be a medication infusion pump that can be shut off remotely. So maybe it is keeping her healthy, but they took advantage of it to get Juliet accepted.

And AICN has an updated list of flashbacks. It's different than others, so I'm suspecting there's probably misinformation being intentionally spread by the producers:



Spoiler



The shocking news? After years of privately and publicly nagging the producers of Lost to cut back on the flashbacks, I can report that 3.19 is slated to be the first-ever flashback-free episode in the series history.

The absent flashbacks for that episode, says my source, won't even be missed.

The episode, he or she adds, focuses on one of season one's mysteries - if that's the right word.

What I am assured is the true flashback order:
3.17 Desmond Hume
3.18 Jin & Sun Kwon
3.19 no flashbacks!
3.20 Benjamin Linus
3.21 Charlie Pace
3.22-23 Jack Shephard


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## Haps (Nov 30, 2001)

Peter000 said:


> Not necessarily. She could have an agenda all her own and be playing the situation against Ben somehow.


Yes or she could be doing it in a desperate attempt to get off the island. Who knows what carrot Ben dangled in front of her. Jacks line about her wanting off the island as much of them was bang on. She doesn't want to be there and will do whatever it takes to get off.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Not unless she has psychic powers. She was crying just before the book club, which is when the plane crashed, which was over a month before Goodwin died.:


Oops, you're right, just realized that shortly after I posted it...sorry about that!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

> Hurley didn't even mention that Ethan hung Charlie and left him for dead.





Spoiler



I rewatched the episode last night and watched the teaser for the end run of episodes. In all the flashing images, there is one of Charlie being hung. Granted, it could be from a flashback...or something else.....or maybe that future is lived out for real now.



When rewatching again last night, I lean a little more towards Juliet working with Jack to do a double cross. Two sets of facial expressions lead me to this. In the scene where Ben and Juliet are going over "the plan", Juliet's look when Ben was trying to get her to respond seemed to be one of planning, and trying to figure out how to make it work for her. Then in the scene where she is tying the tarp up and looking at Jack, the smiles they exchanged now seem less like they are into each other and maybe more likely that they are acknowledging the double cross and it makes them both happy since they both want to desperately get off the Island.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

From one of the other boards:

"Herarat Airlines" (used by Mittelos) nicely anagrams to "Earhart Airlines" -- as in Amelia Earhart. One of the ladies at the book club -- an older lady -- is named Amelia. As far as I remember she wasn't wearing a leather helmet with goggles, but then I don't have the screencaps to confirm;-)


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Anyone else take note of the look Juliet gave to Desmond? And the non-look Desmond didn't return (almost as if he was specifically avoiding eye contact). Desmond's forward flashes can't be restricted to just Charlie, so maybe he already knows about her spy status.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Ruth said:


> I still don't understand why nobody is talking about moving into the others' housing. Wouldn't you think Sayid or Sawyer or Kate would suggest that? Or if not live there, at least want to see what equipment, communications, etc. could be salvaged from there? Look through their files and see what they could learn about the Others? It's not like Juliette is the only possible source of information about the Others, when their settlement is sitting there totally intact.
> 
> Great ep though. Glad to see the show back on track.


I was saying "move there" as soon as last weeks episode ended. "oh they will move into the houses now". Okay, so they don't. Why not? Well, Kate, Jack and Sayid have not told anyone about the houses/community...yet. And knowing what wonderful communicators they are...haha....they may not.

I am thinking it just may come up during Sun's pregnancy - "oh Jack I need my equipment to save her and the baby's life". I agree though, it would make some sense to at least go and salvage the place.

And where exactly did the Others go? to the other island?


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> It bugged me when they had the big "powow" about Juliet with all the group, but the ONLY people front and center or that you see clearly at all are the regular cast! :down:


Why does that bug you? Whenever they try to give a face to any of the extra survivors, people hate their guts for no reason!


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I read an interesting theory on Aint It Cool that I'm going to spoilerize just because it's so awesome. When responding to this, please don't put anything about upcoming episodes unless you say so outside of the spoiler tag. I'm also including a small spoiler about Heroes (what has happened only) in the discussion:


Spoiler



On Heroes, they always hid the identity of Linderman, like he was somebody we knew, but they really only did that so they could stunt cast a celebrity into the role. They may be doing that with Jacob on Lost, but I've got a better theory, what if Jacob is Christian Shepard. Jacob is certainly a Christian name. That would be some s&$% right there. Then again, it doesn't really fit with the accidental nature of the crash. It would be a hell of an explanation. Thoughts?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't get all the comments speculating about wild things like no one can leave the island or everyone dies on the planet. Huh? People have left the island. We've seen it in flashbacks. I don't understand that point. And everyone on earth isn't dead because penny is out there in some arctic (or antarctic) station looking for desmond by analyzing neutrinos in ice and filtering out cosmic radiation or something.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Delta13 said:


> Hey devdogaz, here's another mind bender for you. If Oceanic 815 did fly for 8 hours (mostly) eastbound it should have crashed at night. The flight took off at 1455, or roughly 3 hours before sunset in Sydney (and 1 hour before in Fiji).
> 
> There is a solution to this problem, but it involves calling the pilot a liar and I have more respect for the dead than that.
> 
> ...


From the Pilot...during the pilot....



> PILOT: 6 hours in. Our radio went out, no one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji, by the time we hit turbulence we were 1000 miles off course. They're looking for us in the wrong place.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

smickola said:


> Now looking back, maybe she was crying because she had found out that Goodwin was dead.


The plane was still a few minutes from crashing at that point. Goodwin was still in camp with them. I think the fact that she was listening to "Downtown" was meant to connect the scene to her sister.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Penny is still in England, I think. That listening station in Antarctica called her, didn't they?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> Why does that bug you? Whenever they try to give a face to any of the extra survivors, people hate their guts for no reason!


Because at this point, the end of season 3, there are probably only 1 or 2 more seasons left. They have to have some ideas for characters/storylines for those remaining episodes. Some of the other crash survivors have been seen by this point. So they could use a scene like that one to visually introduce us to A FEW of the remaining survivors that they plan on using. Heck, they could use the survivors we have already seen, like Rose and her husband. That, or they really have no idea and are just making up as they go along.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> Because at this point, the end of season 3, there are probably only 1 or 2 more seasons left. They have to have some ideas for characters/storylines for those remaining episodes. Some of the other crash survivors have been seen by this point. So they could use a scene like that one to visually introduce us to A FEW of the remaining survivors that they plan on using. Heck, they could use the survivors we have already seen, like Rose and her husband. That, or they really have no idea and are just making up as they go along.


In order to do that, however, they would have to risk losing the actor to other work between now and when the character starts playing an active role on the show.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

I have been down on lost for all of this season, but I really enjoyed this episode. It has been the best offering since the show started spiraling down the porcelain throne midway through season 2.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Lost is filmed in Hawaii. Actors that aren't being used go back to LA for other work. It was posted that the reason Rose isn't currently being used is because she isn't available. It's not like an actor can just go to a different sound stage for a few hours of shooting.



scottykempf said:


> Heck, they could use the survivors we have already seen, like Rose and her husband. That, or they really have no idea and are just making up as they go along.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Something I've been mulling over since the episode. I decided to finally post about it...

(Sorry if this is a Smeek, I didn't see anything specifically about this previously in the thread.)

Juliet knew that Sawyer "Killed a man in cold blood" the "day before" he got on flight 815.

The Others' information on the Losties appears to come from access they have to documents about the Losties. We've seen evidence that they have access to documents that are classified (I. e. secret government files) or should be highly confidential (such as private medical records).

However, when flight 815 took off, the authorities clearly did not know that Sawyer had killed that shrimp vendor (having been tricked into thinking he was "the real Sawyer").

We know this because the Australian authorities kicked him out of Australia for starting bar fights and generally being a small-time troublemaker. That's all they knew about him at the time. Had he been a suspect in a *murder* they would certainly never have let him go, but rather, held him for questioning, then possible inditment and trial.

So, assuming the Others are not a bunch of uber-psychics, they learned about Sawyer murdering that shrimp vendor from records they were able to obtain. If this is the case, _it means that the Australian authorities solved that murder, and identified Sawyer as the murderer after his departure on flight 815!_ So, now Sawyer might be incentivised not to be rescued!  (Like Locke.)

(Note that it's not surprising, assuming they have access to various classified records, that they would know of Sayid's background. The US military clearly has extensive files on him, as would the Iraq military, for that matter).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I was saying "move there" as soon as last weeks episode ended. "oh they will move into the houses now". Okay, so they don't. Why not? Well, Kate, Jack and Sayid have not told anyone about the houses/community...yet. And knowing what wonderful communicators they are...haha....they may not.
> 
> I am thinking it just may come up during Sun's pregnancy - "oh Jack I need my equipment to save her and the baby's life". I agree though, it would make some sense to at least go and salvage the place.
> 
> And where exactly did the Others go? to the other island?


Perhaps they don't want to move there because they don't know that the "others" aren't coming back. Imagine at what the "others" would do if they came back and found the Losties living in their homes!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Or alternately, the authorities had nothing to do with the sawyer thing and it was the others that pieced it together because they want to get as much info on the losties as possible.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

betts4 said:


> And where exactly did the Others go? to the other island?


What makes Jack believe that the Others really just up and left? Especially Ben, who spent his whole life on the island and was loathe to let anyone leave. They just left? Why would they do that? Oh, and if the sub was their only way out, and Locke blew it up, _how_ did they leave?

Why doesn't Jack (man of science) question this. Why doesn't Juliet (playing her con) question this when talking to Jack?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

lew said:


> Lost is filmed in Hawaii. Actors that aren't being used go back to LA for other work. It was posted that the reason Rose isn't currently being used is because she isn't available. It's not like an actor can just go to a different sound stage for a few hours of shooting.


True. But they didn't hire any local actors who live in Hawaii? I've been there, and there are plenty of different nationalities and types of people on Oahu and the other islands. Seems like that would have been a good way to keep people on screen more. Just sayin'.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Or alternately, the authorities had nothing to do with the sawyer thing and it was the others that pieced it together because they want to get as much info on the losties as possible.


I agree. I think the Others' resources (at least for pulling together dossiers) are better than that of your standard "authorities" such as the Sydney police dept.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> True. But they didn't hire any local actors who live in Hawaii? I've been there, and there are plenty of different nationalities and types of people on Oahu and the other islands. Seems like that would have been a good way to keep people on screen more. Just sayin'.


If you're an actor, and you want to be on television and you're not yet on television, you don't live in Hawaii. You live in Los Angeles or New York.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

MacThor said:


> I agree. I think the Others' resources (at least for pulling together dossiers) are better than that of your standard "authorities" such as the Sydney police dept.


So, you're saying they pulled records of unsolved crimes in Sidney in the days just prior to the flight and then correlated that data to info they had on the losties, thereby effectively conducting their own private investigation?

Impressive (and very creepy) if true!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

aindik said:


> What makes Jack believe that the Others really just up and left? Especially Ben, who spent his whole life on the island and was loathe to let anyone leave. They just left? Why would they do that? Oh, and if the sub was their only way out, and Locke blew it up, _how_ did they leave?
> 
> Why doesn't Jack (man of science) question this.


Because Saint Jack as presented by the writers is a dullard, totally lacking in curiosity about his situation. This would have worked for the 1st days or weeks as folks awaited rescue but once the situation transformed to permanance it's remarkable the lack of curiosity that all exhibit about the really wierd situation they're in.

I still like the show.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

The others must be getting the info from records. If they were getting the info some other way (psychic) why would they need a list of names. Would they not already know the names? Maybe Sawyer was named a suspect after the flight.

Jeff


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

lew said:


> Lost is filmed in Hawaii. Actors that aren't being used go back to LA for other work. It was posted that the reason Rose isn't currently being used is because she isn't available. It's not like an actor can just go to a different sound stage for a few hours of shooting.


It has been mentioned in the podcasts that we will see Rose and Bernard again this season.

Diane


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> Because at this point, the end of season 3, there are probably only 1 or 2 more seasons left. They have to have some ideas for characters/storylines for those remaining episodes. Some of the other crash survivors have been seen by this point. So they could use a scene like that one to visually introduce us to A FEW of the remaining survivors that they plan on using. Heck, they could use the survivors we have already seen, like Rose and her husband. That, or they really have no idea and are just making up as they go along.


That's EXACTLY what they did this season and people were FURIOUS.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> That's EXACTLY what they did this season and people were FURIOUS.


Are you talking about nikki and paolo? They can do it without it being so jarring.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> So, you're saying they pulled records of unsolved crimes in Sidney in the days just prior to the flight and then correlated that data to info they had on the losties, thereby effectively conducting their own private investigation?
> 
> Impressive (and very creepy) if true!


No, I'm saying in the two months between the plane crash and Thanksgiving '04 (the date of the Locke-caused anomaly) they had the "outside world" resources to compile extensive dossiers on all of the passengers of 815. Once they knew who the survivors were (the reason for the lists, jeffo) they dug extensively into their lives and found out why they were in Sydney. Yes, the Others' organization is impressive and creepy - more so than SD6.


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

Delta13 said:


> Oooh, bonus evil points - MS and Dharma together!  I also expected Kate to go along, but Jack is back in Pure Doofus Mode so what can you say.
> 
> Hey devdogaz, here's another mind bender for you. If Oceanic 815 did fly for 8 hours (mostly) eastbound it should have crashed at night. The flight took off at 1455, or roughly 3 hours before sunset in Sydney (and 1 hour before in Fiji).
> 
> ...


Maybe the pilot worked for Dharma.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Are you talking about nikki and paolo? They can do it without it being so jarring.


How so? They had them in the background for a few episodes, gave them a line or two, and then had them emerge from the crowd. I thought they handled it very well. People just had a knee jerk reaction to hate them.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Nikki and Paolo were not integreated into any plot, they just showed up and suddenly had speaking lines. It wouldn't be that hard to introduce someone within the context of an episode instead of just throwing them up there as random people who are suddenly speaking to everyone on camera but not really for any specific reason.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Ruth said:


> I still don't understand why nobody is talking about moving into the others' housing. Wouldn't you think Sayid or Sawyer or Kate would suggest that? Or if not live there, at least want to see what equipment, communications, etc. could be salvaged from there? Look through their files and see what they could learn about the Others? It's not like Juliette is the only possible source of information about the Others, when their settlement is sitting there totally intact.


Maybe they are worried that the village is bugged and/or booby-trapped. We already know there were cameras in Jack's bungalow, there could be hidden cameras everywhere.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Nikki and Paolo were not integreated into any plot, they just showed up and suddenly had speaking lines. It wouldn't be that hard to introduce someone within the context of an episode instead of just throwing them up there as random people who are suddenly speaking to everyone on camera but not really for any specific reason.


Uh... how should they introduced them then? By not giving them speaking lines? I don't get it. They were gradually introduced, and then given larger roles. I don't see any other way to do it. "Not for any specific reason"? How about that they were survivors from the plane, isn't that reason enough?
We see people in the background all the time, speaking to main characters and non-characters alike.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> Juliet knew that Sawyer "Killed a man in cold blood" the "day before" he got on flight 815.


True, but we don't know _when_ she found that out. They've been on the island almost 3 moths now, and this is the first time that it's been mentioned. For all we know this could be very recent information (i.e. the Australian authorities did not need to have solved it in one day).


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

I'm surprised no one has really delved into what this episode seemed to make apparent. It is looking more and more like the Others are trying to create an utopia, a Garden of Eden of sorts, where there is no illness, cancer or anything like that. However, there's one MAJOR snag: conception is not possible and when it exists, the mother dies.

This makes sense when you think of babies as essentially parasites. A healthy body would not have something that's feeding off it. So, in order to try to create their utopia, the Others need to solve the pregnancy problem so they brought in Juliet. 

This theory fits in with the sprinklings of Biblical references that we've been given, especially from the book of Genesis. 

Now, there's also an intriguing development: Ben developed cancer. Why? This was the core of his dialogue with Locke a few weeks ago. I suspect we'll find out the reason for it soon. Additionally, what implant did they put in Claire? Did this implant help Claire give birth or is she the "Mary" of sorts, the one who is able to give birth despite not being supposed to be able to. If so, this could explain why Claire is important to them AND explain her religious significance in Charlie's hallucinations from last season.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Some random disconnected thoughts:

1) Jacob seems to be too important to be just a regular guy..
My bet is he isn't human. Maybe he's an extremely intelligent/clairvoyant/etc alien, or an advanced supercomputer, or the island itself. I can already hear the people typing "If that's it, I'm leaving" in response, but I think if they did it right, with enough info slowly leaked out, that could be done well, and could be incredibly cool.
(Or, maybe Jacob IS a regular guy, but he's the software engineer running the holodeck simulation that they're all in)

2) I'm firmly in the camp that believes that anything that Ben gives his "word" to is actually something he gave his word to - that he won't lie/cheat to get around that.. The whole story to Locke seemed to genuine, when he was saying "so, there I was - stuck.. If they left, I'd be perceived as weak, and that'd be the end of me. But people had heard me give my word to Jack, so if I killed him, THAT would be cheating, and that'd be the end of me too. But then you came along, trouncing out of the jungle, and saved the day by blowing up the sub!" (paraphrased from memory). I know he lies constantly, but I believe he is a man of his word when he actually "gives his word" (otherwise, all of those scenes talking about him keeping his word are kind of worthless, bad-TV scenes). So for that reason, and for the mystery of having "Jacob" able to cure cancer, I think Juliette's sister actually did have the cancer come back, since it makes for a more interesting story in the end.

3) I maintain that Sayid and Sawyer were "right all along" to distrust Juliette, because even if Juliette IS planning something extra to betray Ben, that's just extra irrelevant information.. Sayid and Sawyer were doubting whether to trust Juliette's story about why she was going for that case.. They were right - her story was a lie (that we even saw rehearsed). She was being dishonest with the group, which is what they suspected (as a base for whatever else they thought/wondered about).

4) I think they did a pretty good job of laying out that Juliette was originally mad at Ben because A) she was frustrated that she couldn't fix the birthing problem on the island, but moreso because B) she wanted to get home to see her sister and the baby. Then when she heard her sister had cancer again, she was mad/sad for a second because of the shock of the news and because she wanted to go see her now, but that was quickly addressed by Ben promising that Jacob would cure her cancer. The next scene we see regarding that is when she finds out Ben has a tumor, tells him, and sees he's scared.. that confirms (incorrectly, I believe) a buried concern of hers that he'd lied about curing the cancer, and that her sister was in fact dead. Ben addressed that within a few days of the plane crash (I forget how many days after the crash they saw the video of the newspaper and her sister)..

I think that from that time on, she had FAR less reason to hate Ben, and it's far more likely that any friction we see between them after this point is acting.. I'm now starting to think for the first time that her "We could kill Ben on the operating table - no one would no" posterboard slideshow for him was actually a ruse with Ben's knowledge.. I don't think she'll betray Ben.

The only thing that has me still wondering a bit was Jack's statement about seeing the look on her eyes - that she wants OFF this island. I think that could still be explained by saying she was now worried that she'd NEVER see her sister again - ever - but that she would have been fine staying there for a while longer.. Hmm.. now I dunno. Either way, they built up a strong argument for her being on Ben's side now.

(Even the anger about Ben during the book club speech, and talk of freewill, was before she saw her sister alive..)


5) AFTER find out that the crash was an Oceanic flight, did they THEN go out and buy a mobile of Oceanic planes for the nursery for Claire? Or, is Dharma connected with Oceanic, and Ben failed to react interested that it was an Oceanic flight? Or does Ben not know that Oceanic is linked with Dharma? I hope they don't write-off the fact that one of the founders of Dharma had an Oceanic logo on a plate on the wall of her office....


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## askewed (Sep 12, 2000)

Me likey!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

wprager said:


> From one of the other boards:
> 
> "Herarat Airlines" (used by Mittelos) nicely anagrams to "Earhart Airlines" -- as in Amelia Earhart. One of the ladies at the book club -- an older lady -- is named Amelia. As far as I remember she wasn't wearing a leather helmet with goggles, but then I don't have the screencaps to confirm;-)


Umm, wait, didn't the woman that threw that molotov cocktail on the raft (when they stole Walt) have a weird leather hat? I know we have pics somewhere, they were certainly posted enough.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> I read an interesting theory on Aint It Cool that I'm going to spoilerize just because it's so awesome.


I believe I've seen this theory brought up here before. Frankly, I didn't see it having much merit. Also, why did you say that


Spoiler



Jacob was a Christian name


?

P.S. I feel silly spoilerizing that.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

tewcewl said:


> I'm surprised no one has really delved into what this episode seemed to make apparent. It is looking more and more like the Others are trying to create an utopia, a Garden of Eden of sorts, where there is no illness, cancer or anything like that. However, there's one MAJOR snag: conception is not possible and when it exists, the mother dies.
> 
> This makes sense when you think of babies as essentially parasites. A healthy body would not have something that's feeding off it. So, in order to try to create their utopia, the Others need to solve the pregnancy problem so they brought in Juliet.
> 
> ...


I think the key to Claire being about to give birth has to do with the fact that she became pregnant off of the island. She was able to give birth despite any effect the island might have on her, due to the injections that Ethan gave her after he kidnapped her (likely whatever it was that Juliet developed). Which brings us to Sun. She either got pregnant off the island (during her affair) or on the island (due to the island's miraculous healing power). The real question is whether and when Jin figures this out.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Uh... how should they introduced them then? By not giving them speaking lines? I don't get it. They were gradually introduced, and then given larger roles. I don't see any other way to do it. "Not for any specific reason"? How about that they were survivors from the plane, isn't that reason enough?
> We see people in the background all the time, speaking to main characters and non-characters alike.


I already wrote how... by having them actually be relevant to the plot instead of just suddenly being moved into the foreground for no reason other than the writers decided they wanted to move them there. At least when arzt showed up, he did so for a reason.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Some random disconnected thoughts:
> 
> 1) Jacob seems to be too important to be just a regular guy..
> My bet is he isn't human. Maybe he's an extremely intelligent/clairvoyant/etc alien, or an advanced supercomputer, or the island itself. I can already hear the people typing "If that's it, I'm leaving" in response, but I think if they did it right, with enough info slowly leaked out, that could be done well, and could be incredibly cool.
> ...


Hi Ereth, welcome to the Lost thread!


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Jacob is a biblical name and I know a few Evangelical Christians that have it.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

AJRitz said:


> I think the key to Claire being about to give birth has to do with the fact that she became pregnant off of the island. She was able to give birth despite any effect the island might have on her, due to the injections that Ethan gave her after he kidnapped her (likely whatever it was that Juliet developed). Which brings us to Sun. She either got pregnant off the island (during her affair) or on the island (due to the island's miraculous healing power). The real question is whether and when Jin figures this out.


Right. I think we're seeing that regardless of whether or not they conceived on or off the island, the mothers will not be able to bring their babies to term and may even end up dying themselves without some sort of intervention. This revelation puts Sun in extreme danger now. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Man, so glad the writers are making stuff pay off now.

EDIT: My 100th Post. Woohoo!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Nikki and Paolo were not integreated into any plot, they just showed up and suddenly had speaking lines. It wouldn't be that hard to introduce someone within the context of an episode instead of just throwing them up there as random people who are suddenly speaking to everyone on camera but not really for any specific reason.


I think the introduction of Nikki and Paolo was jarring and caused annoyance among some viewers (myself included, although I wouldn't go so far as to say I hated them). And after the Nikki and Paulo episode, I am convinced that this was actually a clever maneuver on the part of the writers. I think they wanted us to be mildly irritated with these people from the outset. That way, we feel satisfied (or even vindicated) when they turn out to be truly horrible people* and they meet a horrible end.

If they had slowly integrated them in and made us feel comfortable with those characters, then their flashback and demise would have been even more jarring, and would not have been nearly as entertaining as it was.

*Note that although plenty of other characters on this show have killed people, these are the only two that plotted to kill an innocent man purely for material gain. Misguided Kate thought she was helping her mom. Misguided Sawyer was duped into thinking his killing was an act of righteous vindication. Eko didn't feel like he had any other way out, and he basically was trying to sacrifice himself for his brother. Ana Lucia wasn't mentally stable.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> Some random disconnected thoughts: ...


Juliet knows Ben enough to suspect that he conned Locke into blowing up the sub. I think she still hates him.

Her "plan" to have Jack kill Ben was something subtle that would not be noticed by a non-medical observer. If Jack had been willing to go along with it, I don't see how anyone could have stopped him in time. Jack almost killed Ben and they would have never figured out what happened if he hadn't told them. It's not like they gave him a scalpel loaded with blanks.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

tewcewl said:


> Right. I think we're seeing that regardless of whether or not they conceived on or off the island, the mothers will not be able to bring their babies to term and may even end up dying themselves without some sort of intervention. This revelation puts Sun in extreme danger now. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
> 
> Man, so glad the writers are making stuff pay off now.
> 
> EDIT: My 100th Post. Woohoo!


Umm, no. Claire got to term and delivered a healthy baby. Alex (conceived off island, born on the island) is now a teenager (and her mother is still alive and kicking). Ben is likely another example -- if you believe what he says, he was born on the island, but probably not conceived there.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> Jacob is a biblical name and I know a few Evangelical Christians that have it.


_Biblical_ -- exactly. Old Testament, to be exact. In the original post you said Christian.


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Did anyone else think it was odd that there were already news reports of Flight 815 missing when Ben and Juliet showed up to Mikhail's place? I got the impression that B&J walked there directly after Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin to infiltrate the survivors and they probably didn't take more than a couple of hours to get there. By that time, the plane probably wouldn't have even been scheduled to land in LAX and there definitely wouldn't be info on the news already.


I don't find this odd at all. I'm no pilot, but ground control is in constant contact with all planes in the air. If contact with a plane is lost, that becomes an urgent matter. We learned from the Pilot in the pilot episode that contact was lost several/many hours before the plane actually crashed.

Regarding the losties moving to the others "village" -- Remember that is on the other side of the island, several hours/days trek and there is the "monster" that has proven that just wandering around the island may not be a good idea. Also, there could be some people in the camp that just can't make the trek across the island. Finally, the amount of time that passed since Jack, Sayid, Freckles, and Juliet returned to the camp and the end of the episode was fairly short. What would you expect: Jack to come running on to the beach "there's houses on the other side of the island, there's houses on the other side of the island, Let's roll"


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> Jacob is a biblical name and I know a few Evangelical Christians that have it.


It's a name from the Old Testament. I know a few Jews who have it too.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

wprager said:


> Umm, no. Claire got to term and delivered a healthy baby. Alex (conceived off island, born on the island) is now a teenager (and her mother is still alive and kicking). Ben is likely another example -- if you believe what he says, he was born on the island, but probably not conceived there.


If you read the post I made prior to this one (#212), you'll see that I talked about Claire. She was able to give birth of either one of these two reasons: 1) She was able to give birth thanks to intervention by the Others or 2) She's a "Mary" figure, which could explain why the Others are interested in her and her religious significance in the role she played in Charlie's hallucinations last season.

As for Danielle and Alex, we are not sure of the full story there. Just like we're not sure if Ben was actually born on the island or not.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> *Note that although plenty of other characters on this show have killed people, these are the only two that plotted to kill an innocent man purely for material gain. Misguided Kate thought she was helping her mom. Misguided Sawyer was duped into thinking his killing was an act of righteous vindication. Eko didn't feel like he had any other way out, and he basically was trying to sacrifice himself for his brother. Ana Lucia wasn't mentally stable.


Eko committed premeditated murder many times in his role as drug kingpin.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

MacThor said:


> No, I'm saying in the two months between the plane crash and Thanksgiving '04 (the date of the Locke-caused anomaly) they had the "outside world" resources to compile extensive dossiers on all of the passengers of 815. Once they knew who the survivors were (the reason for the lists, jeffo) they dug extensively into their lives and found out why they were in Sydney. Yes, the Others' organization is impressive and creepy - more so than SD6.


+1

I was trying to say what you said, but it came out sounding like the opposite. I ment that there would be no need for the list if the info was being provided by a mind reading alien/supercomputer.

Jeff


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> I think the introduction of Nikki and Paolo was jarring and caused annoyance among some viewers (myself included, although I wouldn't go so far as to say I hated them). And after the Nikki and Paulo episode, I am convinced that this was actually a clever maneuver on the part of the writers. I think they wanted us to be mildly irritated with these people from the outset. That way, we feel satisfied (or even vindicated) when they turn out to be truly horrible people* and they meet a horrible end.


Yes, I agree to some extent. My whole point was that nikki and paolo were not what I would call an attempt to integrate new characters smoothly that backfired as NoThru22 implied. They were introduced almost the opposite of smoothly. Which was probably intentional, but in any case not the ideal way to introduce someone long term that we are supposed to care about.

I think they can do it without too much effort. It's really not that difficult.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Yes, I agree to some extent. My whole point was that nikki and paolo were not what I would call an attempt to integrate new characters smoothly that backfired as NoThru22 implied. They were introduced almost the opposite of smoothly. Which was probably intentional, but in any case not the ideal way to introduce someone long term that we are supposed to care about.
> 
> I think they can do it without too much effort. It's really not that difficult.


I think Nikki and Paolo were introduced as smoothly as possible. They had a line or two and didn't do much. I think the problem was that they were granted series regular status and had their names in the opening credits every week before we really knew who they were. If they had introduced two characters in the exact same way but the viewers had no idea that they were going to be getting more screen time because they were just considered to be random extras, nobody would have cared and it would have worked perfectly.

Personally, I had no problem with the way they were introduced and liked the fact that they were trying to show us more of the survivors. I just thought it was odd that before we'd really even met them they'd been given the same status in the credits as all the established characters.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

This week's Entertainment Weekly refers to the "Nikki/Paulo debacle".

Article Link: http://www.ew.com/ew/tv/0,,,00.html

*'Lost': Finally, some answers as the producers come clean*
by Jeff Jensen | Apr 13, 2007
The show's execs talk sagging ratings, the Nikki/Paulo debacle, and ...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Wow. The EW article says Lost may not be back until January! Looks like "24"/"Prison Break" storytelling is catching on! :up:


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Are there spoilers in the EW article? I would like to read it but not if there are.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I think Nikki and Paolo were introduced as smoothly as possible. They had a line or two and didn't do much. I think the problem was that they were granted series regular status and had their names in the opening credits every week before we really knew who they were. If they had introduced two characters in the exact same way but the viewers had no idea that they were going to be getting more screen time because they were just considered to be random extras, nobody would have cared and it would have worked perfectly.


...but that would be impossible because of union rules about how actors get credited, which are only broken in extraordinary circumstances (e.g., Amber Benson getting her title credit at, well, the moment when she did, or a guest star not getting credited when it would spoil an episode in advance).

Part of the problem is that screen credits are important not just to a show, but to an actor's career for years to come. If Kiele Sanchez didn't get regular-cast credit for her early appearances, then those appearances wouldn't show up on her resume as regular-cast appearances, which would affect casting directors' view of her and possible her salary for future work.

In this case, I think the viewers screwed the producers (by demanding other losties show up, and then complaining when they did). I also suspect that the producers will, in the future, be less likely to spend a lot of money giving the viewers what they think they want, which might actually be a good thing if it makes them concentrate on building the show and not pandering to a bunch of idiots on the internet.


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

Ruth said:


> Are there spoilers in the EW article? I would like to read it but not if there are.


Yes, they talk about how the island, oh wait, just kidding 

Seriously, yes I would say there are some spoilers in the article.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> I think Nikki and Paolo were introduced as smoothly as possible. They had a line or two and didn't do much. I think the problem was that they were granted series regular status and had their names in the opening credits every week before we really knew who they were.


That wasn't the thing for me at all, since I almost never read the credits. It was a stylistic thing. We know that there are a bunch of other losties. They can't just suddenly bring them into the forefront without it relating to the plot after dozens of episodes where those people were irrelevant. To me that is a cheap writing device and equivalent to suddenly introducing a sibling or child that has always existed in other shows.

They did it skillfully with nikki and paolo by more or less acknowledging that they were doing it and making them the people who say all the crap lost fans say on message boards. They were always kind of intentionally jarring.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

wprager said:


> Anyone else take note of the look Juliet gave to Desmond? And the non-look Desmond didn't return (almost as if he was specifically avoiding eye contact). Desmond's forward flashes can't be restricted to just Charlie, so maybe he already knows about her spy status.


I can't imagine he wouldn't tell them if he did, unless... Maybe he was recruited by the Others when he wrecked on the island, and was doing the important job of entering the numbers for them. It would explain why he knew about turning the key. His time inconsistencies could be some experiment, and from the time he ran out of the hatch until he reappeared he could have been in Otherville.

Is there any connection between Ethan trying to kill Charlie, and the current problems Charlie is having staying alive? Maybe the Others decided he needed to die, and have been after him ever since in some "supernatural" way.

(OK--way far fetched speculation, I know.  )


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The problems charlie is having are due to desmond saving him once. And now, because the writers liked final destination too much, he is fated to die, sooner or later.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> It has been mentioned in the podcasts that we will see Rose and Bernard again this season.
> 
> Diane


I suppose they've been shlepping rocks for Bernard's SOS sign down at their end of the beach for the last fews weeks.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

aindik said:


> It's a name from the Old Testament. I know a few Jews who have it too.


According to the Social Security Administration, the name Jacob has been the #1 most popular male baby name in the country every year since 1999.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...but that would be impossible because of union rules about how actors get credited, which are only broken in extraordinary circumstances (e.g., Amber Benson getting her title credit at, well, the moment when she did, or a guest star not getting credited when it would spoil an episode in advance).
> 
> Part of the problem is that screen credits are important not just to a show, but to an actor's career for years to come. If Kiele Sanchez didn't get regular-cast credit for her early appearances, then those appearances wouldn't show up on her resume as regular-cast appearances, which would affect casting directors' view of her and possible her salary for future work.
> 
> In this case, I think the viewers screwed the producers (by demanding other losties show up, and then complaining when they did). I also suspect that the producers will, in the future, be less likely to spend a lot of money giving the viewers what they think they want, which might actually be a good thing if it makes them concentrate on building the show and not pandering to a bunch of idiots on the internet.


I realize that once they've been contracted to be series regulars, they need to be credited as such. I'm saying that perhaps they could have let them have a speaking line here or there as extras, so that when they brought them on as regulars it would have been more like, "Oh yeah, they're the ones that Hurley was talking to that one time," rather than, "Who the hell are these people that are suddenly regulars but we've never even seen them?"


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Ruth said:


> Are there spoilers in the EW article? I would like to read it but not if there are.


There are some pretty big spoilers, yeah, which is a shame. The article isn't really about the spoilers, it's more about the producers and how they're dealing with the series as an ongoing entity. A few things I really appreciated in the article.

RE: Nikki & Paulo, originally there was to be a longer flashback to Expose, with a twist ending, but as viewers were expressing frustration with the characters, they changed it.


> ''Back when we had more good faith with the audience, we could have gotten away with these shenanigans. Given the backlash against them, we had to clean up the mess,'' says Lindelof. ''We're now judged on an episode-by-episode basis. There's not a lot of room for error.''


I'm happy to see they do care about their audience. According to the article, ABC understands as well, specifically US, the Tivo audience.



> ''Because we moved it to 10, it does seem as if the percentage of DVR recording has gone up. It's tough for people to stay up,'' says Larry Hyams, ABC's chief of research. ''The numbers should be building toward the season finale.''





> ''We've always felt Lost was a cult show at heart. I think what we're seeing now is a marketplace correction,'' says exec producer Carlton Cuse. ''The research shows that for the most part, the audience that started with the show is still with us, though they may be watching it in different ways.''


The last paragraph, though, has me hopeful. Then again, it could just be producer-hype, but they are expressing that they care about the viewers.



> However season 3 ends, Lindelof hopes Lost will again be on friendly terms with its rabid  but easily frustrated  audience. ''We made a promise back in the pilot,'' he says. ''We believe by the end of the season we'll have made good on it. And don't start pestering us about which frigging promise. Trust us. You'll know.''


I hope that helps and avoids spoiling things for you. 

Greg


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

drew2k said:


> Wow. The EW article says Lost may not be back until January! Looks like "24"/"Prison Break" storytelling is catching on! :up:


So when September rolls around, we'll have people whining about it starting late.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

JYoung said:


> So when September rolls around, we'll have people whining about it starting late.


+1


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I realize that once they've been contracted to be series regulars, they need to be credited as such. I'm saying that perhaps they could have let them have a speaking line here or there as extras, so that when they brought them on as regulars it would have been more like, "Oh yeah, they're the ones that Hurley was talking to that one time," rather than, "Who the hell are these people that are suddenly regulars but we've never even seen them?"


Problem is, there's almost no chance that such an actor would still be available when the time came to become a regular. They'd be off doing other work. And there's no way Lost could say, "Well, we aren't going to be paying you, but it's almost like you're a member of the family, so why don't you just stick around until we need you, and in the meantime, we'll put you in as an extra from time to time."

Ain't gonna happen. What you (and apparently a lot of people) were/are demanding is completely unreasonable given how Hollywood operates, and it still floors me that the producers actually changed their game plan on the basis of a few internet whiners who didn't know what they were whining about.

Marvel Comics' editor in chief is a guy named Joe Quesada, and while there's a lot he's done that drives me crazy, one thing he says is, and I paraphrase, "I used to listen to what people on the internet said, but then I learned that I could never please them anyway, and they are completely unrepresentative of our general audience. So now I pretty much ignore them." Words of wisdom--you don't tear apart the engine because you've got a squeaky wheel.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> That wasn't the thing for me at all, since I almost never read the credits. It was a stylistic thing. We know that there are a bunch of other losties. They can't just suddenly bring them into the forefront without it relating to the plot after dozens of episodes where those people were irrelevant. To me that is a cheap writing device and equivalent to suddenly introducing a sibling or child that has always existed in other shows.


That means that they can't ever bring any more of the survivors into the story, since they actually DID introduce Paolo and Nikki fairly slowly.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> I realize that once they've been contracted to be series regulars, they need to be credited as such. I'm saying that perhaps they could have let them have a speaking line here or there as extras, so that when they brought them on as regulars it would have been more like, "Oh yeah, they're the ones that Hurley was talking to that one time," rather than, "Who the hell are these people that are suddenly regulars but we've never even seen them?"


But that's _exactly_ what they did and you just didn't notice.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Me, I'm glad the Internet whiners won out and Paulo & Nikki met an early, much warranted, demise. That said, the show with their demise was masterfull. Very funny and entertaining. OK, I admit that I coulda used some more HDTV views of 'Expose' too.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

tewcewl said:


> If you read the post I made prior to this one (#212), you'll see that I talked about Claire. She was able to give birth of either one of these two reasons: 1) She was able to give birth thanks to intervention by the Others or 2) She's a "Mary" figure, which could explain why the Others are interested in her and her religious significance in the role she played in Charlie's hallucinations last season.
> 
> As for Danielle and Alex, we are not sure of the full story there. Just like we're not sure if Ben was actually born on the island or not.


Sorry, I think I read the part where you said:
_"...regardless of whether or not they conceived on or off the island, the mothers will not be able to bring their babies to term and may even end up dying themselves"_
and didn't notice the last part of the sentence, which said:
_"... without some sort of intervention."_

I'm pretty sure it's accepted as fact that Danielle was pregnant when her party were marooned on the Island, and that she gave birth to Alex shortly (?) after. Ben is a completely different story, of course, but I still have no reason to doubt that he was born on the Island.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

wprager said:


> Sorry, I think I read the part where you said:
> _"...regardless of whether or not they conceived on or off the island, the mothers will not be able to bring their babies to term and may even end up dying themselves"_
> and didn't notice the last part of the sentence, which said:
> _"... without some sort of intervention."_
> ...


In this ep., didn't Juliet specifically say: *"The problem occurs at conception." * Or something very much like that? Hefe?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> In this ep., didn't Juliet specifically say: *"The problem occurs at conception." * Or something very much like that? Hefe?


She said that she _thought_ it occurred at conception.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> In this ep., didn't Juliet specifically say: *"The problem occurs at conception." * Or something very much like that? Hefe?


Who, me? What?





> Juliet: I think it happens at conception. And if that's the case, there's nothing I can do about it, at least not here.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

the human transcript said:


> Who, me? What?


thanks.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Just to clarify, I was not one of the people who disliked Nikki and Paulo and didn't mind at all the way they introduced them. I thought it was nice that they were finally showing us more of the 40+ people who survived. 

However, I understand that a lot of people didn't like it and I was trying to describe why, IMO, that happened. If what I proposed isn't possible, then I guess they did the best they could. I personally wish they'd have kept them around and fleshed their characters out a little more, but ultimately it doesn't really matter.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Some random disconnected thoughts:
> .
> .
> .
> ...


Last year, in the Swan hatch, when the doors came down on Locke's legs, Ben crawled through the air duct into the next room and entered the code into the computer. We know he did, because we now know what would have happened if he had not. He told Locke that he never touched a thing. He said the whole "enter-the-code-and-press-the-button" thing was a joke and meant nothing. This was clearly a lie. He swore he was Henry Gail, and that he came to the island in a balloon. All lies.

He is most certainly NOT a man of his word. Not then--not now. I don't trust a word he says to anyone.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Even if she slept with Jack, that's not a good enough reason for his puppy dog "Leave her alone, she's one of us" attitude.


I'm not sure that you can make this statement definitively without having slept with Juliet 

I just got finished watching this and I think I'm all caught up on the thread now. I might be reading too much into this but when Ben said to Juliet (paraphrasing because I can't remember the exact quote) "You've been here for 6 months and you've seen that none of us have cancer" -- I took this to pretty obviously mean that at least some of them had cancer at one point and knew about it and they do not have the cancer now. It would not seem unusual to me at all for someone to meet a group of people and find out 6 months later that none of them have cancer. He said it to her like the lack of cancer was something that was important/unexpected. I don't see how this statement Ben made to Juliet could have proven anything to her unless she already knew that some of them had previously had cancer. This might explain why they can't conceive.



philw1776 said:


> What about this HDTV shot of Rachell's 'cancer' test results?
> 
> http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rh5U5QPyjtI/AAAAAAAAD-M/3Iiqn92vvrs/s1600-h/racheschartmalel.jpg
> 
> ...





JYoung said:


> Doesn't say much for Juliet's ability as a doctor if she missed that.





dianebrat said:


> Or she's a *great* Doctor for inducing that pregnancy!


Back when the other Juliet centric episode aired, my wife speculated that maybe Juliet's sister is really Juliet's brother. Juliet did artificially impregnate a male rat after all.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

I was talking to a co-worker last week about Lost and he mentioned reading an interview with the writers where they were asked about the skeletons that were found in the caves back in Season 1. They answered...



Spoiler



...that the skeletons were going to eventually be proof at the end of all this that the writers really did have a plan all along. They will be able to point back to this moment as evidence that they were setting up the end as far back as Season 1.



Has anyone else read this and do you have a link?


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

wprager said:


> I'm pretty sure it's accepted as fact that Danielle was pregnant when her party were marooned on the Island, and that she gave birth to Alex shortly (?) after. Ben is a completely different story, of course, but I still have no reason to doubt that he was born on the Island.


Does anyone remember how Danielle explained her pregnancy in a previous episode? Anyone?


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Didn't Alex get Claire away before there was any kind of operation?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tewcewl said:


> Does anyone remember how Danielle explained her pregnancy in a previous episode? Anyone?


What sort of explanation are you looking for. She said she gave birth shortly after being stranded on the island. Kind of makes you wonder what an 8-9 month pregnant lady was doing out on a boat on a science expedition, but I digress. Juliet suspects that the problem happens at conception, so that wouldn't have had any effect on Danielle's or Claire's pregnancies.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> Last year, in the Swan hatch, when the doors came down on Locke's legs, Ben crawled through the air duct into the next room and entered the code into the computer. We know he did, because we now know what would have happened if he had not. He told Locke that he never touched a thing. He said the whole "enter-the-code-and-press-the-button" thing was a joke and meant nothing. This was clearly a lie. He swore he was Henry Gail, and that he came to the island in a balloon. All lies.
> 
> He is most certainly NOT a man of his word. Not then--not now. I don't trust a word he says to anyone.


Sounds like someone completely missed the point.


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> She said she gave birth shortly after being stranded on the island. Kind of makes you wonder what an 8-9 month pregnant lady was doing out on a boat on a science expedition


If you were there for 16 years, 6 months might be described as "shortly after being stranded".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stalemate said:


> I just got finished watching this and I think I'm all caught up on the thread now. I might be reading too much into this but when Ben said to Juliet (paraphrasing because I can't remember the exact quote) "You've been here for 6 months and you've seen that none of us have cancer" -- I took this to pretty obviously mean that at least some of them had cancer at one point and knew about it and they do not have the cancer now.


I took it as the opposite--that none of them had ever had cancer, which WOULD be a bit statistically improbable for a group of that size.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

stalemate said:


> I'm not sure that you can make this statement definitively without having slept with Juliet
> 
> I just got finished watching this and I think I'm all caught up on the thread now. I might be reading too much into this but when Ben said to Juliet (paraphrasing because I can't remember the exact quote) "You've been here for 6 months and you've seen that none of us have cancer" -- I took this to pretty obviously mean that at least some of them had cancer at one point and knew about it and they do not have the cancer now. It would not seem unusual to me at all for someone to meet a group of people and find out 6 months later that none of them have cancer. He said it to her like the lack of cancer was something that was important/unexpected. I don't see how this statement Ben made to Juliet could have proven anything to her unless she already knew that some of them had previously had cancer. This might explain why they can't conceive.


I think you're right about this. Why would they drop in the part about curing Juliette's sister of cancer, if that didn't have something else to do with the plot. Otherwise, with all of their power, Ben could have just announced he had Kidnapped her sister, and would not let her go unless Juliette stayed. Maybe the whole Dharma project (or at least the Other's part) was a Cancer research project.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tewcewl said:


> Does anyone remember how Danielle explained her pregnancy in a previous episode? Anyone?


Exodus, Part 1:


> DANIELLE: Our ship went aground on this island 16 years ago. There were 6 of us -- my team, 6. At that time I was already 7 months pregnant. I delivered the infant myself. The baby and I were together for only 1 week when I saw black smoke -- a pillar of black smoke 5 kilometers inland. That night they came -- they came and took her -- Alex. They took my baby. And now, they're coming again. They're coming for all of you.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

stiffi said:


> I think you're right about this. Why would they drop in the part about curing Juliette's sister of cancer, if that didn't have something else to do with the plot. Otherwise, with all of their power, Ben could have just announced he had Kidnapped her sister, and would not let her go unless Juliette stayed. *Maybe the whole Dharma project (or at least the Other's part) was a Cancer research *project.


That's what I got from last night's episode. That the whole point of them (all of them, not just Juliet) was some sort of cancer research, and that essentially, Ben had FOUND a way to cure cancer. Juliet wouldn't have just believed Ben when he said, "I'll cure your sister," if she didn't have some reason to believe that he actually COULD cure her sister. Whether or not the cancer had actually come back is completely irrelevant to this point.

What I got was that Juliet was brought in because of the fertility problems the people (Ben and the others) on the island were having with possibly "cured" cancer patients. This was a problem that they believed Juliet had shown, in the real world, to know how to "fix."

The question I have is, if this theory is somewhat accurate, what is with the people who came to "study" Jack in the cage? (The flight attendant, the kids from the plane, several other "others.) There is clearly more than just cancer research going on, but what else? (Obviously, a rhetorical question.)

edit- random thought of ridiculousness: Maybe they hold some sort of belief that being a "good" or "bad" person holds some relevance in the development of cancer so they study known "good" and "bad" people? Okay, that doens't make any sense. Oh well.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

The "male 5'11" 197 lbs." thing--she's not 5'11" or 197 lbs. is she? So it must be a mistake.

When you say Ben can cure cancer--do you mean some other way besides just being on the island? And IF he cured Juliet's sister by bringing her to the island, and then let her go, why not let Juliet see her? I took it that what Juliet did for her sister is fix what the chemo had destroyed, and that the reproductive organs of the women on the island had some kind of similar damage.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> What sort of explanation are you looking for. She said she gave birth shortly after being stranded on the island. Kind of makes you wonder what an 8-9 month pregnant lady was doing out on a boat on a science expedition, but I digress. Juliet suspects that the problem happens at conception, so that wouldn't have had any effect on Danielle's or Claire's pregnancies.


Then why abduct Claire to begin with or even steal Alex? If the problem is only at conception, then why would they care if Claire was already preggers.

A thought popped in my head just now. Juliet seems to be wrong with her hypothesis that the problems occurs at conception. As far as we know, Sun's already conceived a baby (as seen in the positive pregnancy test) and she hasn't had any problems. The problems must occur sometime after conception and sometime before the birth.

Additionally, thanks hefe for the Exodus quote.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

tewcewl said:


> Then why abduct Claire to begin with or even steal Alex? If the problem is only at conception, *then why would they care if Claire was already preggers. *
> 
> A thought popped in my head just now. Juliet seems to be wrong with her hypothesis that the problems occurs at conception. As far as we know, Sun's already conceived a baby (as seen in the positive pregnancy test) and she hasn't had any problems. The problems must occur sometime after conception and sometime before the birth.
> 
> Additionally, thanks hefe for the Exodus quote.


Juliet _thought_ this was the case, and why her presence was no longer necessary. Ben was not ready to accept that answer.

Also, we don't know what the "problem" is, only that there is something that prevents the mothers being experimented on from surviving on the island once they have given birth. Juliet thinks that whatever it is that makes this happen is triggered at conception, or something like that.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

jradford said:


> Juliet _thought_ this was the case, and why her presence was no longer necessary. Ben was not ready to accept that answer.
> 
> Also, we don't know what the "problem" is, only that there is something that prevents the mothers being experimented on from surviving on the island *once they have given birth*. Juliet thinks that whatever it is that makes this happen is triggered at conception, or something like that.


It's not after they've given birth, I think. It's prior to birthing the baby, it seems.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

So, where did Carl, Alex's boyfriend, come from? Was he born on the island? Brought there as a little boy? Hmmmmm....

I also wonder where the Others went off to when they left their area. I questioned before about why the Losties didn't go to the compound to live since it was much better housing and such. I was told it was too far away and that the other may come back.

So now I guess my question is - why not go and salvage what you can from the place. I mean, food, linens, clothing, building materials - take Hurleys van and go for a raid on the place. 

And where is the walkie talkie that Sawyer got from Nikki and Paolo's tent? Wouldn't that be a good thing to share with Sayid for maybe tracking the Others?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I took it as the opposite--that none of them had ever had cancer, which WOULD be a bit statistically improbable for a group of that size.


They had all been carefully screened. I'm sure extensive personal and family medical histories would have been checked.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

wprager said:


> They had all been carefully screened. I'm sure extensive personal and family medical histories would have been checked.


Hmmm. Maybe that's "Jacob's list."


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jradford said:


> Juliet _thought_ this was the case, and why her presence was no longer necessary. Ben was not ready to accept that answer.
> 
> Also, we don't know what the "problem" is, only that there is something that prevents the mothers being experimented on from surviving on the island once they have given birth. Juliet thinks that whatever it is that makes this happen is triggered at conception, or something like that.


At some point in the ep., Juliet says that Claire's symptoms are consistent with the other pregnant women on the island. So she may have been wrong about "it happens at conception." Or she was lying about Claire having the same symptoms.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> At some point in the ep., Juliet says that Claire's symptoms are consistent with the other pregnant women on the island. So she may have been wrong about "it happens at conception." Or she was lying about Claire having the same symptoms.


She was lying about Claire and her symptoms, as was proven when we learned that the Others activated an implant in Claire to create a false emergency where Juliet would be the only one able to save Claire, bringing Juliet into everyone's good graces.


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## Bulldog7 (Oct 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> I'm back in the camp of wanting Saint Jack dead. What a twit. You're on the island for months and you don't ask your supposed friend who's an Other ANY questions? Terminal lack of curiosity. Jack is a dull boy.
> 
> Sayid should gut the sucka.


I yelled at the screen for Sayid to grab a knife and just off Jack...what a dumb ass!!
But, then I calmed down. All in all, a good episode, more answers that lead to more questions....Lost as it should be!!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Bulldog7 said:


> I yelled at the screen for Sayid to grab a knife and just off Jack...what a dumb ass!!
> But, then I calmed down. All in all, a good episode, more answers that lead to more questions....Lost as it should be!!


I mean, is my man Sayid a GREAT character, or what?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> 2) I'm firmly in the camp that believes that anything that Ben gives his "word" to is actually something he gave his word to - that he won't lie/cheat to get around that.. The whole story to Locke seemed to genuine, when he was saying "so, there I was - stuck.. If they left, I'd be perceived as weak, and that'd be the end of me. But people had heard me give my word to Jack, so if I killed him, THAT would be cheating, and that'd be the end of me too. But then you came along, trouncing out of the jungle, and saved the day by blowing up the sub!" (paraphrased from memory). I know he lies constantly, but I believe he is a man of his word when he actually "gives his word" (otherwise, all of those scenes talking about him keeping his word are kind of worthless, bad-TV scenes). So for that reason, and for the mystery of having "Jacob" able to cure cancer, I think Juliette's sister actually did have the cancer come back, since it makes for a more interesting story in the end.





Church AV Guy said:


> Last year, in the Swan hatch, when the doors came down on Locke's legs, Ben crawled through the air duct into the next room and entered the code into the computer. We know he did, because we now know what would have happened if he had not. He told Locke that he never touched a thing. He said the whole "enter-the-code-and-press-the-button" thing was a joke and meant nothing. This was clearly a lie. He swore he was Henry Gail, and that he came to the island in a balloon. All lies.
> 
> He is most certainly NOT a man of his word. Not then--not now. I don't trust a word he says to anyone.


I think you missed my point.. I'm not saying he's a generally honest guy - he's demonstrated that's not the case - he lies constantly. I'm saying that when he promises to do something and then says "you have my word on that", that that seems to be important to him to actually live up to (or at least it's important to those around him, and if they saw him break a promise that he labeled as having "given his word" on, that'd be it for Ben)..

When Jack and Juliette came in to ask if Ben would let his friends go, Ben said ok, and then Jack followed up with "... DO I HAVE YOUR WORD ON THAT?".. It felt like Juliette had told him to make sure to use that phrase, since "his word" was important to him, and it went past the normal lie-to-the-survivors-on-the-island standard method of operations around there..

You shouldn't trust a word Ben says.. unless he gives you his word that it's true.. and even then you should pay real close attention to the wording, since Ben was happy to say he'd let people go - as soon as Jack had left the island - when he knew Jack wasn't leaving..


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given.
> 
> I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
> 
> But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.


Inconceivable!


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

smickola said:


> I'm beginning to think that maybe the EMP didn't cause the plane to crash, but rather the "magic box"...as Ben himself said it, just when he finds out he has a tumor on his spine, a spinal surgeon "falls out of the sky."


Not necessarily an either/or thing. We know nothing about the "magic box", so why not imagine that when it "works", it does so by arranging coincidences? (Assuming there really is something that "the magic box" refers to at all.)


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