# Help me write the 20.2 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

Hi all!

I promise I will put together Release Notes for our new 20.2 software update for the TiVo Premiere series, but I need your help.

Please use this thread to list all of the changes you've found. (I've had this software so long, I don't recognize all of the new things!)

I will then organize them, and add some commentary as to *why* we made the changes.

If you have topics/questions you'd like to see covered in the Release Notes, please list those too. I'll do my best.

Sound fair?

Thanks,
--Margret


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## mmf01 (Jan 31, 2011)

Aside from the many great UI improvements, I noticed the Netflix video out of sync (FFing immediatly after playing) issue has been fixed with this release..Original issue details below.Thanks!!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480590


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## comma splice (Feb 4, 2010)

This is awesome! TiVo is back!


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

mmf01 said:


> Aside from the many great UI improvements, I noticed the Netflix video out of sync (FFing immediatly after playing) issue has been fixed with this release..Original issue details below.Thanks!!
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480590


Release Notes, not issues log


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

compnurd said:


> Release Notes, not issues log


Release notes typically include resolved issues as well as known issues.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

If you change channels via the guide the medium banner should come up, but if you just bring up the guide and then close it the small banner shouldn't come up.

With the mini-guide if you change channels only the small banner comes up, not the medium banner. But if you clear it neither banner comes up.

A little inconsistent there, I would expect the behavior of the guide and the mini-guide to be the same when changing channels or just clearing the guide.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

The Delete Confirmation dialog box at the end of a show is now in HD instead of SD.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Margret, you might want to keep an eye on this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481338. He did a good job of putting together a summary of the changes with the last release. And Margret, thank you for communicating with the community the way you are!


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

In HDUI, select a series recording, then go into "Explore" menu, then "Episodes". In 20.2 it has a toggle Available/All, with Available being the default; if I remember correctly, older version only had All. This is rather handy, as the Explore submenu was (for me) already the main (feature-wise) advantage of HDUI over SDUI, and now it is better. 

A clock in several screens, nice.

And, of course, the main changes everybody knows about: 
- HD guide and banners; finally another reason to have HDUI.
- new background for SD screens, makes switch to them less annoying.
- slightly different Discovery Bar


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Sounds great.


New HD Grid Guide and live Guide with indicators for scheduled recordings, single check mark for manual recordings, two check marks for season pass scheduled recordings, and red for currently recording. You can sort by Channel number or Channel Name.
New HD Miniguide
Streaming is enabled, will go live with official roll-out. You will of course need multiple Premieres and will not work with S3 or TiVoHD. Wired connection is recommended.
At the bottom of the TiVo Search results, you will now have an option to create a wishlist for the search item. 
Search now includes channels so you can search for NBC for example and it will list any channel with NBC in the title. Selecting this result will take you to Live TV. If all tuners are recording, it will prompt you just like if you tried to change the channel during a recording. 
New Discovery Bar. The Discovery Bar now contains 4-6 items and cannot be scrolled. All items on the Discovery Bar are now labeled so you know why it is up there. 
New delete screen in HD when using the HDUI. Also there is no longer a confirmation sound prior to the delete screen appearing. 
Clock has been added to TiVo HD menus

Questions. I realize some of this probably can't be answered.

Will we see filters return to the Guide?
Any chance we will see other indicators in the guide like shows that won't record or conflicts, shows with a season pass, shows with thumbs up only? 
Any chance the spoiler window in the Guide can be disabled if you have the preview window turned off? This is mainly if I am not watching live TV or a recording. If I just hit Guide while in My Shows or TiVo Central ideally there would be no preview window.
Any chance there could be an option to disable the labels on the Discovery Bar? I understand why they are there, but the new images are more dull with the labels. Also it has caused some odd wordwrap with shows like SeaBiscuit.
We seem to have lost the ability to thumbs up or down shows on the Discovery Bar without actually selecting them now? Any chance this could 
Any chance streaming will work from the PC for at least transferred recordings?
Any chance someone from TiVo can answer any of wmcbrine's metadata questions? Would love to have access to all the Metadata with pushed recordings.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

Release notes? I'm so happy I just might cry! 

Margret, you're the best!


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Release notes are nice and I'm sure will be welcome by the community.

However, the community is being asked to provide the data based on observation rather than the developers based on implementation? Isn't this data part of every sane revision control system on the planet? I can't imagine someone saying "I just released and update, now please tell me what I updated"... It's just weird.

Part of what makes release notes or a changelog valuable is that it would contain changes that we _don't_ know about.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

* Right arrow no longer cycles through three channel bar options


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Margret, I applaud your willingness to participate and supply information! However, in this case, it seems it might be redundant, since I am already doing this (announced before your thread): http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891646 Like I did for the last version. Of course, it takes me many hours, and I would love to hand it over to you, if you like 

I think what people would love to see from TiVo is an official changelog based on internal documents of software changes, not something gathered from the community and then posted back to the community. Know what I mean?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

crxssi said:


> I think what people would love to see from TiVo is an official changelog based on internal documents of software changes, not something gathered from the community and then posted back to the community. Know what I mean?


I find this request endearing and embarrassing at the same time. A company actually requesting customers to produce documentation for them. Should we process our own monthly fees for you as well? Or perhaps I'm sorry I haven't been keeping you abreast (for years) but if you tell me what's going on with my company I'll let you read about it. 

And 30 posts in four years makes me a little hesitant to think it's a new dawning.


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## SafariKC (Mar 6, 2000)

Charles R said:


> I find this request endearing and embarrassing at the same time. A company actually requesting customers to produce documentation for them. Should we process our own monthly fees for you as well? Or perhaps I'm sorry I haven't been keeping you abreast (for years) but if you tell me what's going on with my company I'll let you read about it.
> 
> And 30 posts in four years makes me a little hesitant to think it's a new dawning.


I think the classification of "embarrassing" is unfair. Not many consumer tech companies give detailed release notes, sure there is a source control system, and bug system/issue tracker, internal tech doc. But if you look at what most companies do for their users it's very high level. If this was an apple release it would say "Stability and Performance enhancements, new HD Guides, adds Streaming capability between premiere boxes (to be enabled at a later date), streamlined discovery bar". And there would be no dialog at all.

What Margret is offering is great - fun - and interesting to get some behind the scenes (story teller/music artist style) - here's what we did and an offer to learn from us what we find most important.

The simple truth is, it's been a LONG while since we got a major update to the TiVo platform - and TiVo has been using this code base or somethinglike it for a while with Virgin - so the merge probably does make it hard for them to build a great user experience from -> to. This is a win-win if you ask me. Change to learn more and set a new bar for transparency for the next iteration... Which I suspect will come sooner than we think.

Looking forward to seeing the changelog thread updated by Margret - lots there already, imagine how awesome it will be with her direct help too?

KC


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Charles R said:


> I find this request endearing and embarrassing at the same time. A company actually requesting customers to produce documentation for them. Should we process our own monthly fees for you as well? Or perhaps I'm sorry I haven't been keeping you abreast (for years) but if you tell me what's going on with my company I'll let you read about it.
> 
> And 30 posts in four years makes me a little hesitant to think it's a new dawning.


I think it is a combination of several things.

They have a new head of Corporate Communications.

They have been running multiple versions so while yes 20.2 is new to us, many of the updates were already in the Virgin TiVo. As a result they have been internally working with 20.2 at least since September 2011.

TiVo in the past has never really released a changelog. There is an old post from TiVoPony in the past even stating some of the thinking behind why they don't. Unfortunately I can't find the post today.

As far as her post count if you look, half have been in the past week. I think this is a sign of changes.

I think the response from the community, here and on Twitter, has also been a positive sign. I believe she even mentioned to someone as a result of the response they plan on trying to have the priority sign-up page active next release.

In the past the community, mostly here but also on Twitter, hasn't been the most friendly to TiVo employees. Also consider she has been one of the more public employees while not as much on here prior to now, but definitely on Twitter. She responds a majority of the time on Twitter. This is also as she pointed out in another thread that this is the first release she has run.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

2x performance due to new multi-threaded flash player?

Different view if what's playing on the other tuner(s). Elite looks better than the 2-TUNER premiere.

New play buffer bar with color TiVo on left

Search includes Hulu Plus results (coming soon)

Simplified filtering options?

New HD dialogues for tuning adapter and hdmi related messages.

Different program info banner when changing channels versus mini-guide versus right arrow info.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

smbaker said:


> Release notes are nice and I'm sure will be welcome by the community.
> 
> However, the community is being asked to provide the data based on observation rather than the developers based on implementation? Isn't this data part of every sane revision control system on the planet? I can't imagine someone saying "I just released and update, now please tell me what I updated"... It's just weird.
> 
> Part of what makes release notes or a changelog valuable is that it would contain changes that we _don't_ know about.


In an ideal world the programming staff would take the time to write copious notes documenting all the changes they've made, but I've never seen a world like that, have you? I'm sure TiVo's programmers have been busy just trying to get ahead of the curve lately. I would like to think that TiVo has noticed that they have a great resource here in TCF, and that they're trying to engage it productively. And if they ask us, they'll get input on all changes that have occurred, not just on those that were intended.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

When pressing SELECT, a new miniature guide appears.

Aside from not being exactly intuitive, a side-effect of this new behavior is that any remote sequences that depend on the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT behavior now become exceedingly difficult to enter.

The only way that I have been able to enter the sequences is while viewing a video in the Showcases menu, where SELECT does not display the miniature guide.

After enabling the on-screen clock using the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-9-SELECT [CLEAR] remote sequence, the clock position has been moved into the center of the screen, which makes the clock unusable.

I have been using the clock for many years. Please move the clock position back to the lower-right corner of the screen, and please be mindful of overscan of older HDTVs.

It sure would be nice if the clock was an option in the Displays setting menu.

Thanks for all of the improvements in this new release.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

L David Matheny said:


> In an ideal world the programming staff would take the time to write copious notes documenting all the changes they've made, but I've never seen a world like that, have you?


In any and every project I've worked on involving more than 3 people, a version control system has been in placed that had a handy spot to enter a changelog line every time a commit occurs. Whether it be CVS, SVN, GIT, Microsoft TFS, etc., they all have this feature.

I'd be astonished to find that Tivo's programmers commit code without noting what has changed. It'd make any large scale project rather difficult not knowing who had changed what. More likely, I'll bet the company is large enough that there's two departments not communicating, and an internal changelog exists. It's just silly to think they pushed an update without knowing what's in it.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Charles R said:


> And 30 posts in four years makes me a little hesitant to think it's a new dawning.


124 posts in 12 years is hardly anything to write home about. Are you sure that you should cast any stones?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

L David Matheny said:


> In an ideal world the programming staff would take the time to write copious notes documenting all the changes they've made, but I've never seen a world like that, have you? I'm sure TiVo's programmers have been busy just trying to get ahead of the curve lately.


Yes, I have. Many, many times. In fact, it is the norm. Although it is rarely the programmers deciding which features to add, and in a vacuum. Normally there are testers, analysts, and managers making those decisions in concert with programmers. And not having lists of what they are changing is suicide.

The lists of changes already exist. It would be absolutely insane to have no documentation. It doesn't have to the be programmers that collect them together into a document.


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## GriffithStrife (Oct 30, 2010)

davezatz said:


> * Right arrow no longer cycles through three channel bar options


I have heard you and many others say this, but I have ask you do realize it's meant to work this way? And for the better I might add.



crxssi said:


> Margret, I applaud your willingness to participate and supply information! However, in this case, it seems it might be redundant, since I am already doing this (announced before your thread): http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8891646 Like I did for the last version. Of course, it takes me many hours, and I would love to hand it over to you, if you like
> 
> I think what people would love to see from TiVo is an official changelog based on internal documents of software changes, not something gathered from the community and then posted back to the community. *Know what I mean?*


Sir I do not want to offend you or troll you, but for the first time in years we have a person in a position to help us. Who is willing to listen to our advice and opinions and you decide to show her who's boss with firsties.

We all appreciate what you do, but maybe this one time you can take a back seat. I also find your final comment to be rude, I know Margret won't ask for a apology but I think one is needed on your part.

For a long time we all complained about many things, myself included but now things are starting to change. Lets not ruin it with are petty egos or things they changed we don't like.

I have heard 5 people call the select button bringing up the mini guide a bug, why is it that if you don't like it it's a bug? I happen to love it, but that's just me I can't stand the SD UI but I don't call it a bug.

Forgive me if I sound like a ass but Margret and a lot of others deserve extra credit.

In the last week they have done more to improve Tivo's image than the last 3 years combined


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

GriffithStrife said:


> I have heard you and many others say this, but I have ask you do realize it's meant to work this way? And for the better I might add.
> 
> Sir I do not want to offend you or troll you, but for the first time in years we have a person in a position to help us. Who is willing to listen to our advice and opinions and you decide to show her who's boss with firsties.
> 
> ...


+1


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

ncted said:


> +1


+2


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://investor.tivo.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=106292&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1645905&highlight=

TiVo Service Update Enhances Search, Guide, and Program Information so Users Can More Quickly Find and Discover the Best Entertainment That TV and the Web Has to Offer

LAS VEGAS, NV, Jan 09, 2012 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) --TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services including digital video recorders (DVRs) today announced that it continues to improves its TV experience with a new software release to TiVo(R) Premiere DVRs. This is another in a series of software releases for the TiVo Premiere DVR platform.

This software release brings changes in several different areas including:

Improved Live TV Experience

-- New HD Guide - The TiVo Guide is now in HD making it crisp, clear and
fast. The design lets you find your live TV shows even quicker. Use of
picture in graphics allows you to watch your show while browsing the
guide. HD guide is available in both traditional "Grid Guide" format
as well as TiVo "Live Guide" which lets you see what is on the current
channel for much of the day in one screen.
-- New Information Banner (Previously Channel Banner) - The screen
providing information about the current channel has been redesigned
with a crisper look. The system provides information about the channel
in one of two sizes and TiVo automatically selects which size to use.
The standard size shows up when you first tune to a channel or start
to play a recording or program download. The full banner shows up if
the user explicitly requests information about the channel.
-- New Mini-guide- Live TV now has a mini-guide that displays shows that
are currently playing or coming up next on the current channel and the
next three channels in guide listing.
-- Multiple Tuner Icons- There are now "multiple tuner" icons in the full
info banner. When that is highlighted, it shows what is playing and
recording on the DVR's other tuners. If you'd rather watch one of
those shows, you can easily select it to get to your other tuners.

Instantly stream shows between TiVo Premiere DVRs

-- Allows users with more than one TiVo Premiere DVR in their house to
stream content between them. This means instant access to any part of
a show no matter where it is recorded. It also allows multi-room
access to most "Premium" content.

Search Enhancements

-- Search for Channel - TiVo search now integrates Hulu Plus so you can
search across live TV and TiVo's complete library of broadband
content. For the first time, you can now search for a channel by call
sign (e.g., CNBC) within TiVo Search.

-- Easier navigation to Episodes- New Episode guide shows only episodes
available in broadband or broadcast TV by default making access to
shows more clear and even easier. You can use an option button on the
remote to change the filter to show all episodes, available or not, or
only free episodes (Episodes not requiring a per episode purchase).

Discovery Bar - Re-designed Discovery Bar shows short "recommended reasons" text below each image in the bar so that users can tell why a show is recommended without having to navigate to it.

More Fluid Navigation - The new software also allows users to navigate through the user experience more quickly. This is one installment of a continued effort to make the user experience even better.

In addition to the features listed above, TiVo also announced today that its popular TiVo(R) App is now available on Android phones and select tablets -- providing the TiVo user experience to even more consumers, including those with the new Amazon Kindle Fire. To learn more about the app visit www.tivo.com/android.

About TiVo Inc. Founded in 1997, TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO) developed the first commercially available digital video recorder (DVR). TiVo offers the TiVo service and TiVo DVRs directly to consumers online at www.tivo.com and through third-party retailers. TiVo also distributes its technology and services through solutions tailored for cable, satellite and broadcasting companies. Since its founding, TiVo has evolved into the ultimate single solution media center by combining its patented DVR technologies and universal cable box capabilities with the ability to aggregate, search, and deliver millions of pieces of broadband, cable, and broadcast content directly to the television. An economical, one-stop-shop for in-home entertainment, TiVo's intuitive functionality and ease of use puts viewers in control by enabling them to effortlessly navigate the best digital entertainment content available through one box, with one remote, and one user interface, delivering the most dynamic user experience on the market today. TiVo also continues to weave itself into the fabric of the media industry by providing interactive advertising solutions and audience research and measurement ratings services to the television industry www.tivo.com

TiVo, TiVo Logo, and Trick Play are trademarks or registered trademarks of TiVo Inc. or its subsidiaries worldwide. Copyright2011 TiVo Inc. All rights reserved. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

SOURCE: TiVo


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

djwilso said:


> Aside from not being exactly intuitive, a side-effect of this new behavior is that any remote sequences that depend on the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT behavior now become exceedingly difficult to enter.
> 
> The only way that I have been able to enter the sequences is while viewing a video in the Showcases menu, where SELECT does not display the miniature guide.


1. Turn on Live TV
2. Bring up the mini-guide
3. Enter your SPS sequence

This worked for me, and is pretty simple once you know about it.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

+4

In addition, this poster seems to be missing the point. 


Charles R said:


> I find this request endearing and embarrassing at the same time.


This openness is new. These enhancements were clearly not previously put together with copious notes meant for presentation general public (so they would obviously need to go back, compare versions, notes, whatever, and create this for us from scratch). Tivo was open, got good feedback from this group, and reciprocated. This is something we need to appreciate for what it is, we are being asked, as a group, to participate.

If we act as grown ups, perhaps we are on the road to having TiVo continue this process. They may consider putting these notes together for public consumption as the changes are contemplated and put into production. What we have here is an individual going out on a limb, in the public domain, to give us information. Giving off negativity will NOT HELP that take place.

Sorry- I did not mean for this to be a rant. We simply need to appreciate what we have and not give cause for it to stop now.


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## comma splice (Feb 4, 2010)

+5


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

+5 !!


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

jrtroo said:


> This openness is new.


Nothing new here. Much like the VP of Product Development at Pioneer coming to AVSForum out of the blue every few years hyping his next generation. In this case he is long gone before members are done thanking him for listening. Never to return until the next generation of products needs to be hyped. Nothing new at this Forum as well... if you have been playing along over the years.



> These enhancements were clearly not previously put together with copious notes meant for presentation general public (so they would obviously need to go back, compare versions, notes, whatever, and create this for us from scratch).


Completely disagree. I spent decades writing and managing code and it was not unusual to spend more time documenting changes than the actual coding.



> This is something we need to appreciate for what it is, we are being asked, as a group, to participate.
> 
> They may consider putting these notes together for public consumption as the changes are contemplated and put into production.


What changes? The entire scope of the post is about release notes. Nothing more. However, feel free to read anything into the post you wish.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Charles R said:


> Completely disagree. I spent decades writing and managing code and it was not unusual to spend more time documenting changes than the actual coding.


Yes, but that doesn't mean Tivo is going to or should release the documentation, especially given the litigeous nature of their business at the moment. By crowd-sourcing unofficial notes, whatever gets put together here will not be admissable in court, kind of like certain reverse-engineering methodologies.

-Ted


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

L David Matheny said:


> In an ideal world the programming staff would take the time to write copious notes documenting all the changes they've made, but I've never seen a world like that, have you? I'm sure TiVo's programmers have been busy just trying to get ahead of the curve lately. I would like to think that TiVo has noticed that they have a great resource here in TCF, and that they're trying to engage it productively. And if they ask us, they'll get input on all changes that have occurred, not just on those that were intended.


Agile programming really helps with this. The program manager needs to keep track of things, but it should work out that there is a clear record of what has changed. Though in this case, since this is a merge, more the a development cycle, I can see why it would be harder to come up with a set of new features/bug fixes.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

TerpBE said:


> 1. Turn on Live TV
> 2. Bring up the mini-guide
> 3. Enter your SPS sequence
> 
> This worked for me, and is pretty simple once you know about it.


This is great. Thanks!

However, I hope that TiVo will correct the clock positioning for the next release as the center of the screen is unusable.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I remain with my positions. This openness from TiVo with the Premiere with these changes is new, harking back to days of old with the series 1/2 is silly. 

You also miss my point with the documentation. Of course they have the changes documented, they were just not documented for US. They were for internal purposes. It takes extra effort to do this NOW, pulling the notes, putting them into plain english, going through with counsel, ect. If releasing the notes were in the initial plan, it would have been a much smaller effort over time to keep these up as the release progressed.

Appreciate what you have.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Yes, I have. Many, many times. In fact, it is the norm. Although it is rarely the programmers deciding which features to add, and in a vacuum. Normally there are testers, analysts, and managers making those decisions in concert with programmers. And not having lists of what they are changing is suicide.
> 
> The lists of changes already exist. It would be absolutely insane to have no documentation. It doesn't have to the be programmers that collect them together into a document.


We use a wiki, when someone is assigned a task the project manager adds a bullet to the wiki. The programmer then will update that with notes on the implementation. Before release a documentation guy goes through the wiki and polishes, often talking to programmers clarify what needs to be communicated. After he goes through, the team members look at the stuff they worked on to make sure it is accurate.


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## DCleary (Dec 20, 2008)

Here's an idea. Don't like that TiVo is asking for help/input don't give any.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

jrtroo said:


> This openness from TiVo with the Premiere with these changes is new, harking back to days of old with the series 1/2 is silly.


I seem to remember a quote... _"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "_



> You also miss my point with the documentation. Of course they have the changes documented, they were just not documented for US. They were for internal purposes. It takes extra effort to do this NOW, pulling the notes, putting them into plain english, going through with counsel, ect.


Sorry, I didn't miss anything. I understand there may be additional work involved and that is the jest of my original post. It comes across as hey... I'd appreciate you doing my homework. As far as stating one's take it was requested in her post.



TiVoMargret said:


> Sound fair?


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I applaud the initiative from Tivo (And more specifically Margaret). Every business is resource constrained these days. Reaching out to your user community is just good business. I am glad to see Tivo moving ahead.

And don't underestimate the difficulty of maintaining change logs when you have large teams working on separate branches that then have to be merged together. This is often further complicated by the fact that the different teams are probably using different methodologies. Agile is great for new development, not such a good fit with maintenance.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> You also miss my point with the documentation. Of course they have the changes documented, they were just not documented for US. They were for internal purposes. It takes extra effort to do this NOW, pulling the notes, putting them into plain english, going through with counsel, ect. If releasing the notes were in the initial plan, it would have been a much smaller effort over time to keep these up as the release progressed.


Then a plan should be constructed to make that data available. The data needs to be there for the management folks, if nothing else.

My criticism shouldn't be taken as criticism of Tivo being more open. I think that's a wonderful idea. It's just that the process is a bit weird by most software development standards. You don't deliver an update and then ask your customers to play with it, _guess_ at what you've done, and document for you what you changed.

Crxssi has already been maintaining unofficial changelogs of the last couple versions. It sounds like Margaret is going to add a bit to it in terms of "why" things were done, which will be helpful. So we're going to end up with an augmented unofficial changelog with an official stamp of approval on it. They could always pay crxssi for his help, he did a great job with 14.9.2.2. 

Maybe this change indicates that Tivo will be moving forward to a more open process and we can get _real_ developer-produced release notes (instead of 'unofficial' community-produced release notes) in the future. That would be a huge gain to the community, and I think useful to Tivo as well as community feedback would improve.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

What you are missing is that TiVo has no intention of publicly publishing release notes. Like just about every other company - including my own - release notes of any detail are corporate property and considered confidential. TiVo has published a very high level of functionality that is includded in this release and that is what you are going to get. Good lord, what does apple, Mircorsoft or any other software company provide?

For you guys who are in the software engineering business, I know I can't be the only one who deals with this as a matter of business!!!

What Margret is offering (if you bother to read between the lines) is that she is willing to explain the design thoughts around features that we identify and bring up.

Why this community board thinks they are entitled to review the change logs is beyond me. Frankly, I am offended and suspect we are not going to see much from Margret in this thread moving forward.

As for @crxssi - I like your list, but I would rather you stop defining possitives and negatives based on your own biases. A bug / software fault is one thing, but a critique on a design decision is a personal opinion and may not match the way I or others on this forum feel.

The following are the puplic release notes released by TiVo...



> LAS VEGAS, NV, Jan 09, 2012 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) --TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services including digital video recorders (DVRs) today announced that it continues to improves its TV experience with a new software release to TiVo(R) Premiere DVRs. This is another in a series of software releases for the TiVo Premiere DVR platform.
> 
> This software release brings changes in several different areas including:
> 
> ...


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## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

Guys, let's keep the discussion to another thread, and focus on providing assistance to Margret. She has limited time and would probably like to avoid wading through non-relevant discussion.
*
My best suggestion has got to be looking at crxssi's thread not so much as "point by point" but for overall changes, with significantly less focus on positive or negative (as was rightly pointed out by bradleys above).
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481338
*

Also, really liking the willingness to interact with the community as able - let's try to remember to be nice and stay positive! :up:


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## GriffithStrife (Oct 30, 2010)

Charles R said:


> Nothing new here. Much like the VP of Product Development at Pioneer coming to AVSForum out of the blue every few years hyping his next generation. In this case he is long gone before members are done thanking him for listening. Never to return until the next generation of products needs to be hyped. Nothing new at this Forum as well... if you have been playing along over the years.
> 
> Completely disagree. I spent decades writing and managing code and it was not unusual to spend more time documenting changes than the actual coding.
> 
> What changes? The entire scope of the post is about release notes. Nothing more. However, feel free to read anything into the post you wish.


Sir I strongly believe if you continue to post this way then yes Margret and anyone else from Tivo will leave. No one needs to be *****ed at and reprimanded for not living up to your imagination



bradleys said:


> What you are missing is that TiVo has no intention of publicly publishing release notes. Like just about every other company - including my own - release notes of any detail are corporate property and considered confidential. TiVo has published a very high level of functionality that is includded in this release and that is what you are going to get. Good lord, what does apple, Mircorsoft or any other software company provide?
> 
> For you guys who are in the software engineering business, I know I can't be the only one who deals with this as a matter of business!!!
> 
> ...


Could not a agree more a lot of people here acts like their opinion is law, there is a lot of stuff I don't like but I know its just my opinion.

People have to understand, Tivo decides these things as a group the majority wins and 90 percent of the time I agree.

So please take your petty comments and leave this tread, Margret asked for help from us. So she could explain some things we might have trouble understanding, not so a bunch of angry egotistical jerks can piss and moan about everything Tivo did bad at for the last 5 years


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

bradleys said:


> What you are missing is that TiVo has no intention of publicly publishing release notes. Like just about every other company - including my own - release notes of any detail are corporate property and considered confidential.


The thread started with a Tivo employee expressing a desire to publish release notes. So let's assume the point of whether or not they wish to do so has been expressed already.

You're right, most companies want to keep some level of detail private, and not everything in an internal changelog makes it into an external copy of release notes. However, if one wants to publish release notes (and hooray! Tivo actually does), then there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. The right way is to start with the changes that you, internally, know that you made.



bradleys said:


> For you guys who are in the software engineering business, I know I can't be the only one who deals with this as a matter of business!!!


Maybe we've work for software companies with entirely different philosophies. Every place I've worked for, the customer wants to know what changes occur to the product, and management makes some effort to comply to keep the customer(s) happy.



TheWGP said:


> Guys, let's keep the discussion to another thread, and focus on providing assistance to Margret. She has limited time and would probably like to avoid wading through non-relevant discussion.


crxssi already created a thread for the unofficial revision notes, and he's doing a good job of keeping the first post up to date. TivoMargaret can use that and see all the changes in the first post.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

smbaker said:


> Maybe we've work for software companies with entirely different philosophies. Every place I've worked for, the customer wants to know what changes occur to the product, and management makes some effort to comply to keep the customer(s) happy.


At my company... the customer requests the changes... and work with development to test it... they know what is being put in with each release.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

GriffithStrife said:


> I have heard 5 people call the select button bringing up the mini guide a bug, why is it that if you don't like it it's a bug? I happen to love it, but that's just me I can't stand the SD UI but I don't call it a bug.


The Select button pressed during a recording playback, brings up the Mini-Guide with it's position at the top of the channel list, if not a bug, then certainly an unexpected and inconsistent behavior.

The Guide button pressed during playback indeed opens to the position of the first tuner.

If Select is supposed to bring up the Mini-Guide during playback, then the behavior should be consistent with the Guide button and LiveTV and open at the position of the first tuner.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> If Select is supposed to bring up the Mini-Guide during playback, then the behavior should be consistent with the Guide button and LiveTV and open at the position of the first tuner.


 Agreed. Defaulting to lowest channel is useless and unintuitive.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

smbaker said:


> Maybe we've work for software companies with entirely different philosophies. Every place I've worked for, the customer wants to know what changes occur to the product, and management makes some effort to comply to keep the customer(s) happy.


Then you do not deliver consumer software. Yes, we deliver significant documentation to our business partners - I don't think anyone on this forum is a TiVo business partner... I don't think anyone on this forum has signed non-compete or non-disclosure agreement with TiVo.

How about you pointing us to some public forum thread with the published CVS files from your last release.

Please...


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

moyekj said:


> Agreed. Defaulting to lowest channel is useless and unintuitive.


So is going to a (seemingly) random channel any time you use it... Somewhat of a no win there...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

socrplyr said:


> So is going to a (seemingly) random channel any time you use it... Somewhat of a no win there...


It should go to the channel on the active tuner just like the guide has done since they added it to the playing of recorded content (added back in the S3 days I believe).


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

GriffithStrife said:


> Sir I do not want to offend you or troll you


Well unfortunately, you just did both with your posting 



> but for the first time in years we have a person in a position to help us. Who is willing to listen to our advice and opinions and you decide to show her who's boss with firsties.


It has nothing to do with "who is first" (although I did happen to be first). And I am just as appreciative of her efforts as anyone else. It has to do with getting a real changelog from the designers, programmers, engineers, and managers. Not a regurgitation of what we already formulate ourselves, I wouldn't want to waste her time which has been REALLY great for all of us so far.



> We all appreciate what you do, but maybe this one time you can take a back seat. I also find your final comment to be rude, I know Margret won't ask for a apology but I think one is needed on your part.


I read what I wrote again. I don't think it is rude. It was not meant to be rude. And I am astonished you think I should *apologize*!



> For a long time we all complained about many things, myself included but now things are starting to change. Lets not ruin it with are petty egos or things they changed we don't like.


It has NOTHING to do with ego! You are reading far more into what I said. Perhaps you are lumping what I said into what some other people said too??



> Forgive me if I sound like a ass but Margret and a lot of others deserve extra credit.


I totally agree with you- that she does deserve a lot of credit. I am neither trying to steal her thunder, nor step on what she wants to accomplish. (And you are forgiven, even though I really don't appreciate your posting, I can get over it).



> In the last week they have done more to improve Tivo's image than the last 3 years combined


Extremely true


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

bradleys said:


> As for @crxssi - I like your list, but I would rather you stop defining positives and negatives based on your own biases.


I wouldn't quite go that far. If there are positives and negatives, most can ONLY be defined by people's biases... unless we want to vote on every one. Of course, that is not practical. Really, I do hope to be as unbiased as possible, and would welcome ANY feedback to the thread pointing out something that is not. But having negative and positive really can be useful, and can be an element for trying to get positive change.



> A bug / software fault is one thing, but a critique on a design decision is a personal opinion and may not match the way I or others on this forum feel.


Agreed. And I *do* appreciate specific feedback. I am only human. There are some changes that are neither positive or negative, or perhaps both, based on prevailing thought. And I tried to notate that, since it seemed impractical to also have a section of "neither positive nor negative" for each section.



> The following are the puplic release notes released by TiVo...


Wow- when did that come out and where?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

crxssi said:


> Wow- when did that come out and where?


On the TiVo Web page, under invester relations.

http://investor.tivo.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=106292&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1645905&highlight=


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

bradleys said:


> Then you do not deliver consumer software.


I deliver consumer software and corporate software. I've not only delivered consumer software, but sold that same software direct to consumers. Every version update included release notes.



bradleys said:


> How about you pointing us to some public forum thread with the published CVS files from your last release.


No, I have no desire to post my personal details on the TCF.

Furthermore, I never asked for the raw CVS (or SVN or GIT or whatever Tivo uses) data. I said that the data exists, and it can be used for generating public release notes. Of course it's not used verbatim.

I have seven commercial consumer-grade bonified applications open on my desktop right now. I just googled each one of them. Each one has public release notes posted. Only one of them was written by me. The ones not written by me are: Windows 7, SecureCRT, VMWare Workstation, World of Warcraft, Firefox, OpenOffice, and C++ Builder XE.

This proposition that consumer software doesn't include release notes is just silly.



crxssi said:


> But having negative and positive really can be useful, and can be an element for trying to get positive change.


I find your breaking them down into positive and negative to be useful. Many of your 'negative' items are things that look like bugs. Few of them I would consider controversial.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

smbaker said:


> I find your breaking them down into positive and negative to be useful. Many of your 'negative' items are things that look like bugs. Few of them I would consider controversial.


All fair. And most of the negatives really are just bugs. Perhaps it should be reformatted. I will wait to collect more feedback, since it really is about/for the group, and not for me.... despite what a few people might think.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Thank you all for a graphic demonstration of how TiVo learned over the years not to bother engaging users on these forums any longer. Special thanks to the moderators who seem to care too little about TiVo or TiVo users anymore to do anything to support their efforts.

Margaret, thanks for what you're trying to do. I wish you luck.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

nrc said:


> Thank you all for a graphic demonstration of how TiVo learned over the years not to bother engaging users on these forums any longer. Special thanks to the moderators who seem to care too little about TiVo or TiVo users anymore to do anything to support their efforts.
> 
> Margaret, thanks for what you're trying to do. I wish you luck.


Ah, taking the high road. Hmmm.

Well, I might not agree with everything said in all the postings, but if I were a moderator, I don't see anything in this thread that would be really worthy of censoring. It could even be counter-productive. It is an open group of lots of different people, with lots of different viewpoints, and with varied ways of communicating (a lot like the world, at-large). About the only thing we ALL can agree with is that Margret is a god-send and this is a direction in which we want TiVo to continue moving- more openness, more community dialog, more sharing of info, etc.

As the Vice President of User Experience, I am sure that Margret is used to turmoil. And she is very likely aware that it is impossible to make everyone happy, and I bet her skin is thicker than some would have us believe. Based on comments by her and some other TiVo employees (that I have conversed with via Email), they seem to be quite open to constructive criticism and even complaints. They know there are some tough issues to solve- and many who have been upset over the last two years have just cause.

Anyway, I know I have said it many times now, in several threads, but thanks again, Margret. And if you are reading this (and I hope you are) please let me know if there is ANYTHING I can do to help your efforts succeed, even if that occasionally leads to rocking the boat.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

crxssi said:


> Anyway, I know I have said it many times now, in several threads, but thanks again, Margret. And if you are reading this (and I hope you are) please let me know if there is ANYTHING I can do to help your efforts succeed, even if that occasionally leads to rocking the boat.


Furthermore, I think that most people in this thread, even those who are critical of the process like myself, think that it's a positive thing that Tivo is moving toward more openness, and providing release notes. My hope is that eventually we get to the point where not only do we get full and accurate release notes, but also more detail on what Tivo is working on and what features we may expect in the future (I've been noticing more openness on that front lately as well).

I don't see anything here a moderator should take action on. The Tivo folks are big boys (and girls), they can handle the little bit of strife that's encountered in a forum like this.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

bradleys said:


> On the TiVo Web page, under invester relations.
> 
> http://investor.tivo.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=106292&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1645905&highlight=


Under investor relations? That's the last place I would have looked for it.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

FWIW, I did some research as to the level of release notes typically provided by software / service vendors. It does run the gamete from none to a very detailed list tracked to customer problem report numbers. 

My conclusion -- what Margret is offering is reasonable (and desired)! Supplementing what was already released to the public via the TiVo Press Release with additional details such as the "White Icon" I just posted to the other thread are subtle details that may only be of interest to users on TCF but provide a comprehensive list of changes including the rationale for the change.


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

Sorry, I didn't miss anything. I understand there may be additional work involved and that is the jest of my original post. It comes across as hey... I'd appreciate you doing my homework. As far as stating one's take it was requested in her post.[/QUOTE]

Just for nothing but it is "Gist" not "jest".


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

bradleys said:


> On the TiVo Web page, under invester relations.
> 
> http://investor.tivo.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=106292&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1645905&highlight=


That just highlights what is new. I bet everyone gets a message on their Tivo that says the same thing once the software is fully deployed (Remember when we used to get those after every new software release?).

True release notes should also include changes and fixes.
For example:
VRD TV Suite release notes
AnyDVD Changelog


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2008)

Some changes I have noticed:

1. progress bar redesign makes it prettier
2. a. in the GUI 'find by call sign' now integrated into & replaced by search
b. in SD 'find by call sign' now allows alpha entry using slide remote
3. Now able to choose tuner to view in live TV using the information (formerly channel) banner menu. Especially useful if you have more than 2 tuners (Q, Elite, Virgin..)


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Ed_Hunt said:


> Just for nothing but it is "Gist" not "jest".


 Actually, it's not. It wasn't meant mean spirited... as in it was said in jest.


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## Saberj (Sep 29, 2006)

One question I have involves a small nitpick for me. How come when I'm watching a show, and I hit the Tivo button, the audio stutters before it picks up in Tivo Central. Same thing happens when you go back to your show VIA Zoom or Live TV. However, in the new update, there is zero audio stutter when watching a show and hitting the Guide button. It also takes you to a new screen, but it does so without that hitch. 

Is there any chance that the Tivo Central screen could be updated to use that same sort of transition sometime in the future? It's just a second, but if you are watching something, it's enough to make you miss what is being said for a couple words. It sort of throws off the benefit of that PIP being there to begin with. I can't continue watching my show, I have to either pause it, or deal with the fact that I just missed something that was said. 

I'm a bit OCD like that.


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

I will start compiling the notes at a standard rate of $90 per hour. Please let me know where to start sending in my invoices.....

I seldom post, but couldn't control myself this time. I was shocked that Tivo would come on here and pat us all on the back and ask for notes. Are you kidding me? How does Tivo not have this? Which scares me even more (but makes complete sense when you think about it). It's no surprise that after all these years of little-to-no progress that someone from TiVo would come here and ask US to do THEIR work. 

TiVo, enjoy being the only kid on the block. While TiVo is no doubt the best available right now, all it will take is someone like Apple to come along and decide they want a piece of this, and Tivo will be a sidenote in a Wikipedia page.

In all my years of tech (reading/working/developing/analysis), I have NEVER seen a commercial company ask for the (paying) users to develop their release notes. If this was Chrome or something like that, I could understand, but sheesh. This is a new one.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Frank Furter said:


> I will start compiling the notes at a standard rate of $90 per hour. Please let me know where to start sending in my invoices.....
> 
> I seldom post, but couldn't control myself this time. I was shocked that Tivo would come on here and pat us all on the back and ask for notes. Are you kidding me? How does Tivo not have this? Which scares me even more (but makes complete sense when you think about it). It's no surprise that after all these years of little-to-no progress that someone from TiVo would come here and ask US to do THEIR work.
> 
> ...


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

I hope Margret is enjoying reading her thread.

She offers us additional information if we identify the changes we think are significant. Most people in this thread seem to take offense at that offer.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

beejay said:


> I hope Margret is enjoying reading her thread.
> 
> She offers us additional information if we identify the changes we think are significant. Most people in this thread seem to take offense at that offer.


Yeah, that attitude seems contrary to the name of the site. Hardly community-minded.


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## Innerloop (Sep 10, 2000)

beejay said:


> I hope Margret is enjoying reading her thread.
> 
> She offers us additional information if we identify the changes we think are significant. Most people in this thread seem to take offense at that offer.


Oh I'm sure she learned her lesson and regrets ever starting the thread.

Sad, but alas predictable.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Innerloop said:


> Oh I'm sure she learned her lesson and regrets ever starting the thread.
> 
> Sad, but alas predictable.


I doubt that she's that easily offended. She does have to deal with the public, after all. And she knows some of us can be jerks sometimes.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

beejay said:


> She offers us additional information if we identify the changes we think are significant.


Well, if that was what she meant, then she should have offered to help crxssi maintain _his_ unofficial release notes. 

Instead she offered for the community to help her create _Tivo's_ release notes. Regardless, the distinction is relatively minor. Release notes are a good idea regardless of who does the work and who puts the final stamp of approval on them. Learning the motivation behind the changes is a useful thing.



Innerloop said:


> Oh I'm sure she learned her lesson and regrets ever starting the thread.


She has a major position at a major corporation. I'm sure she can deal with whatever we throw her way and doesn't need to be coddled.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

smbaker said:


> She has a major position at a major corporation. I'm sure she can deal with whatever we throw her way and doesn't need to be coddled.


But she should be *respected* as we are getting more feedback from her than we have gotten for years from TiVo employees, it may not be perfect but it a lot better than no feedback at all.
And she did have our TP updated if you sent her a E-Mail, and I for one really appreciate that as I got the last three of my TPs updated Monday night so all four are on the same software.


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

beejay said:


> I hope Margret is enjoying reading her thread.
> 
> She offers us additional information if we identify the changes we think are significant. Most people in this thread seem to take offense at that offer.


Well, here's the sad thing about that statement. Tivo users (me being one of them) are so starved for attention from the vendor in both inventiveness and responsiveness that they'll fall all over themselves whenever a Tivo employee shows up.

You need to step back and think about what's going on here. Can you imagine Apple, or Vizio, or Western Digital, whoever, going to a user forum and asking the paying users to submit release notes for a software update? I'm having a hard time understanding what makes Tivo the hero here.

I've told everyone who'd listen about Tivo for years and years. I've snapped up each new model as it came out, even the ridiculously priced wireless adaptors(!). I've patiently waited while we saw VERY little innovation past the first major release, even to this day. I've been a loyal paying customer for nearly a dozen years. Yay for me.

BUT, I think it's bad practice to ask US to help them. As many others have pointed out, you can't have a working code management system and not have documented notes. If they don't, is it any wonder that they release crappy update after crappy update?

I tried to use Rhapsody on one of my Tivo's last night (non v20.2) - what a nightmare. It reminded me of all the things that are wrong and have been wrong with Tivo for years. And then they waltz in here playing the hero, and the poor loyal Tivo masses lap it up like candy. This would be unacceptable in almost any other industry, and I think speaks volumes for the state of Tivo.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

lessd said:


> But she should be *respected* as we are getting more feedback from her than we have gotten for years from TiVo employees...


I haven't seen anyone openly disrespect her. Disagreeing about the process is not disrespect. As I've said a few times in this thread, more openness is a good thing.

She is an employee acting in furtherance of Tivo corporation's goals. I think she's on the right track in a number of ways, and she will do her company service by utilizing this forum which is an incredible resource to the company. That doesn't mean we get down on our knees and bow to the benevolent Tivo for finally paying the community some attention.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

smbaker said:


> I haven't seen anyone openly disrespect her. Disagreeing about the process is not disrespect. As I've said a few times in this thread, more openness is a good thing..


Then you are not reading the same thread I am... It is interesting how big an ass someone can become on an anonymous internet thread.

I suspect this openess is going to be rather fleeting... She has no obiligation to engage on this fourm.

Can you imagine Apple, or Vizio, or Western Digital ever coming on an internet forum and answering questions? She offered to explain and discuss any features we wanted to talk about.... And we shove a big s*** ball in her face.

Not really a community I am very proud of being part of.


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

bradleys said:


> Then you are not reading the same thread I am... It is interesting how big an ass someone can become on an anonymous internet thread.
> 
> I suspect this openess is going to be rather fleeting... She has no obiligation to engage on this fourm.
> 
> Not really a community I am very proud of being part of.


What community is that? The "Do the work of Tivo's documentation and development team for free" community?

I'm all for Tivo coming on here and engaging users to get feedback and ideas. Personally, I'd rather see her ask *her* employees to provide this information. You *do* know Tivo is not open-source, right?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Frank Furter said:


> What community is that? The "Do the work of Tivo's documentation and development team for free" community?
> 
> I'm all for Tivo coming on here and engaging users to get feedback and ideas. Personally, I'd rather see her ask *her* employees to provide this information. You *do* know Tivo is not open-source, right?


I do... I also know that TiVo has made a decision not to publish release notes. That is a business decision. So we have Margret willing to work with us and answer some questions - but you feel a nasty wisecrack is the best response.

You are all for TiVo engaging as long as it meets *YOUR *idea of appropriate engagement. If it does not - I think we can see what your response will be. All hail the omnipentent one!


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

bradleys said:


> All hail the omnipentent one!


Nasty wisecrack, eh....

Could you at least explain to me why you think it's acceptable for Tivo to ask paying customers to provide the release notes?

Or asked another way, why is it not ok to expect Tivo to provide these to us?


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Frank Furter said:


> Well, here's the sad thing about that statement. Tivo users (me being one of them) are so starved for attention from the vendor in both inventiveness and responsiveness that they'll fall all over themselves whenever a Tivo employee shows up.
> 
> You need to step back and think about what's going on here. Can you imagine Apple, or Vizio, or Western Digital, whoever, going to a user forum and asking the paying users to submit release notes for a software update? I'm having a hard time understanding what makes Tivo the hero here.
> 
> ...


As I have posted previously, there are valid reasons for a software company to not publish release notes these days. It sucks, but software patents are apparently here to stay. At least Tivo is engaging its users.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Frank Furter said:


> What community is that?


Ahem:

http://www.tivocommunity.com


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Frank Furter said:


> Nasty wisecrack, eh....
> 
> Could you at least explain to me why you think it's acceptable for Tivo to ask paying customers to provide the release notes?
> 
> Or asked another way, why is it not ok to expect Tivo to provide these to us?


Lots of highly competitive companies do not openly distribute release notes... My company is one of them. We will deliver a high level release document to dicusses features, but not an element by element release list. That is a business decsision.

I do not work for TiVo, but I expect they have a similar restriction in place - and until they lift that restriction - you are not going to see release notes. Done!!!

TiVo has release notes - they know exactly what was delivered in this release. It simply has not been vetted or approved for public communication.

We had the opportunity to ask Margret about anything we wanted... She may have wanted to phrase her request in a different way - but it does not change the fact that you are not going to get a detailed release notes unless TiVo changes their internal rules.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

bradleys said:


> She has no obiligation to engage on this fourm.


Correct. She's an employee of Tivo. Her only obligation is whether or not the company wants her participation in the forum. She's not participating for our benefit. She's participating for Tivo's benefit, which may benefit us as a side effect.



bradleys said:


> She offered to explain and discuss any features we wanted to talk about.... And we shove a big s*** ball in her face.


At least inasmuch as this thread, she offered to compose release notes based on the (unpaid) work of what people do here. Read the title. She didn't offer to help _us_. She offered to let us help _her_. As I said a couple times now, I think this is a positive development, such that it is. It's better to have some participation than no participation and maybe they'll surprise us and produce some decent release notes.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

> she offered to compose release notes based on the (unpaid) work of what people do here. Read the title. She didn't offer to help us.


I am sure she wished she phrased the request differently, but what she offered was to develop an unofficial set of release notes and (more importantly) _*"add some commentary as to *why* we made the changes."*_

I am pretty sure she is PROHIBITED from providing us a set of non vetted / non public release notes. I know I am....

We are now arguing about the phrasing of her request and missing any thoughts or description about TiVo's design decisions.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

bradleys said:


> I am pretty sure she is PROHIBITED from providing us a set of non vetted / non public release notes. I know I am....


Why does this straw man keep getting thrown up? Who has asked for the raw unedited changelogs? I (and others) have said the data exists to which Release Notes can be created. It does. You admitted it yourself. Nobody has asked for 'non-vetted release notes'.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Anyway, I know I have said it many times now, in several threads, but thanks again, Margret.


Hear, Hear!


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

smbaker said:


> Why does this straw man keep getting thrown up? Who has asked for the raw unedited changelogs? I (and others) have said the data exists to which Release Notes can be created. It does. You admitted it yourself. Nobody has asked for 'non-vetted release notes'.


OK - the vetted release notes approved by TiVo for distribution are here. (I realize these are not release notes)

http://pr.tivo.com/easyir/customrel...ersion=live&prid=839359&releasejsp=custom_150

This information is pretty much identical to what TiVo provided to Dave Zatz and his blog.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/tivo-begins-massive-premiere-update/

That is what TiVo has approved and vetted for public release. I would *LOVE *more detailed information!

So assuming Margret is not really allowed to create a list of specific items and elements in this release - without going through legal... etc... She gets us to create the release notes based on our observations and she can comment on them and give us insight into TiVo's design decisions!

Win Win for everyone! Oh - well, maybe we can't make it quite that easy in our little "community"...


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

This might be the single greatest thread that Tivo has ever had.

I have to assume that Margret already has a changelog and is just testing the users of this forum to see how many of them they can guess?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

aadam101 said:


> This might be the single greatest thread that Tivo has ever had.
> 
> I have to assume that Margret already has a changelog and is just testing the users of this forum to see how many of them they can guess?


It's a game!

I - The select button brings up the mini guide... *BINGO*!


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> This thread has fallen apart.
> 
> Really, it is too bad. Someone was trying to do something "out of the box" and "not in the original plan" for those who read this board and who are interested in more details.
> 
> ...


Clearly TCF needs moderators that could have gotten this thread back on topic.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

jrtroo said:


> While I'm sure Margret can handle the heat, we clearly have not heard from her on this thread since it started.


Really no need for her to comment. I'll assume she is making a note of every reported change here for her later "release notes and rationales" list.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

sbiller said:


> Clearly TCF needs moderators that could have gotten this thread back on topic.


They could have locked this thread and pointed her to the "20.2 changelog thread" thread that already exists and already contains the data she was looking for.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I suppose I am as much to blame for that as anyone else... Ignore buttons do work! I appologize to the community for that. 

I just get sooooo frustrated!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

sbiller said:


> Clearly TCF needs moderators that could have gotten this thread back on topic.


None of the moderators here really seem to care about TiVo or TiVo users any longer. Only one seems to bother participating in the TiVo topics and even that person doesn't seem particularly enthusiastic about the product.

This hasn't been a TiVo forum for a long time. It's a Happy Hour forum that happens to have an associated TiVo forum attached as the nominal reason for it's existence.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Margret, it's great to see you in here! As you can see the forum is very excited to have you. Although I've still taken on the occasional issue as it has been _brought _to my attention, there hasn't been a proactive presence ever since TiVoPony's departure. Even before then, our participation had been dwindling. Hence the pent up excitement  ...and frustrations .

For those who don't know, Margret has not only been with us for a very long time but she is quite high up in the company and very influential :up:. I know Margret and her participation here is a reflection of her passion and utter devotion to the customers and product rather than out of any "obligation". I don't know of many people here with as demanding a schedule as Margret so I know she is only taking the time to post because she cares so much.

Hopefully her presence here is the (re)start of a beautiful relationship.


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> Please use this thread to list all of the changes you've found. (I've had this software so long, I don't recognize all of the new things!)


All I'm trying to say is, why doesn't TIVO supply us with a list of changes. If I (and others, it appears) are misreading this, then maybe you can clarify what it is you're asking.

To me, it's like Microsoft giving us Windows 7 Service Pack 2, then hopping on a forum and saying, "We just threw in code changes and crossed our fingers! Can you help us document what we did?"


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Frank Furter said:


> To me, it's like Microsoft giving us Windows 7 Service Pack 2, then hopping on a forum and saying, "We just threw in code changes and crossed our fingers! Can you help us document what we did?"


That's my objection too -- not the fact that Tivo wants to generate Release Notes, but the way in which they're going about doing it. For lack of a better term, it seems _backward_. 



TivoJerry said:


> Hopefully her presence here is the (re)start of a beautiful relationship.


I think it's great that we're seeing an increased Tivo presence here. It reminds me of the product the way it was back near the beginning when my Tivo was my favorite piece of electronics and I was amazed at everything it did. Now... just make the boxes hackable again!


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Frank Furter said:


> All I'm trying to say is, why doesn't TIVO supply us with a list of changes. If I (and others, it appears) are misreading this, then maybe you can clarify what it is you're asking.
> 
> To me, it's like Microsoft giving us Windows 7 Service Pack 2, then hopping on a forum and saying, "We just threw in code changes and crossed our fingers! Can you help us document what we did?"


This is a merge of two code bases. It is a lot harder in this situation where they took one set of code and combined it with another to figure out exactly what has changed between the last release and the merged in code. The only real way to do that is to look through all the changes made on the branch and figure out which ones had already made it back into the other branch and excluding those that had originated in the other branch and were moved Virgin branch.

That is a fair bit of work, we did get a high level of the new features from a press release. Different companies give out different levels of Release Notes. Often it is just hitting the high points. Some do go into lots of detail.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

smbaker said:


> I haven't seen anyone openly disrespect her. Disagreeing about the process is not disrespect. As I've said a few times in this thread, more openness is a good thing.
> 
> She is an employee acting in furtherance of Tivo corporation's goals. I think she's on the right track in a number of ways, and she will do her company service by utilizing this forum which is an incredible resource to the company. That doesn't mean we get down on our knees and bow to the benevolent Tivo for finally paying the community some attention.


The opposite of respect is the word disrespect, a word that I did not use or intend, I was referring to some posters neutral or somewhat negative response to what she is trying to do, that is not disrespect, but is also not respecting what she is trying to do. IMHO help her or don't post on this Thread.


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

lessd said:


> IMHO help her or don't post on this Thread.


You might check the VERY top of your screen. Right under the 'Community Forum' logo. Here, I'll quote it for you:

"This site is not part of TiVo, Inc."

Hey, I know! Make everyone happy - TiVo can make a generous donation to help keep this site rolling along, and in turn, the TiVo fanatics can supply her with the release notes she desires!


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Frank Furter said:


> Hey, I know! Make everyone happy - TiVo can make a generous donation to help keep this site rolling along, and in turn, the TiVo fanatics can supply her with the release notes she desires!


Naw, they should just hire crxssi as a consultant. He's doing a great job of maintaining the changelog and tracking bugs.

(what am I, the one man crxssi fan club? )

and Les, it's a public forum, we shall say what we please, within reasonable limits!


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

steve614 said:


> That just highlights what is new. I bet everyone gets a message on their Tivo that says the same thing once the software is fully deployed


I never got any such message. But perhaps it is because we are in pre-release.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

beejay said:


> Really no need for her to comment. I'll assume she is making a note of every reported change here for her later "release notes and rationales" list.


If it is any consolation, I am continuing to try and pick up anything useful and add to the already-existing changelog: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481338


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

i don't know if this is the proper thread to report this, but i have an elite and in the hd menus when i hit the 'guide' button the screen sometimes does not completely display or populate with data although the headings and footings and the livetv thumbnail are there. hitting any key populates the screen as it should be. this does not happen ever in the sd menus.

now i have the channels on the left and the program on the right of the split screen (tivo live guide). i move the cursor to the right part of the screen and use ch+up and ch+down to navigate and just this half of the screen sometimes doesn't display the next screen of data until i hit any key. this also happens in the left (channel) side of the screen. when these things happen, sometimes the info in the top left disappears and sometimes that info lags by up to 10-15 seconds and then appears, but the missing data doesn't reappear no matter how long i wait until i hit any key.

if i didn't know better i would say this seems like a laggy internet connection, but that is not the case here.

again, i apologize if this is the wrong place for this info or if someone else has reported it. i've tried to read through all the 20.x threads and i haven't seen this particular problem reported. i am currently experiencing a very intermittent problem with losing my signal or all my channels, but i'm not at all sure that could be connected to this issue.

/guy


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8893969#post8893969

_*We are looking into this*

Hi all,

Thanks for making me aware of this issue. Engineering is currently looking into it.

--Margret_

I find this endearing and not embarrassing. So why don't we give this thread a pass.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but it looks like channel logos have been updated with this release.

H2 now displays H2 and no longer History International. Not sure what other locals changed


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Frank Furter said:


> Well, here's the sad thing about that statement. Tivo users (me being one of them) are so starved for attention from the vendor in both inventiveness and responsiveness that they'll fall all over themselves whenever a Tivo employee shows up.
> 
> You need to step back and think about what's going on here. Can you imagine Apple, or Vizio, or Western Digital, whoever, going to a user forum and asking the paying users to submit release notes for a software update? I'm having a hard time understanding what makes Tivo the hero here.
> 
> ...





Frank Furter said:


> Could you at least explain to me why you think it's acceptable for Tivo to ask paying customers to provide the release notes?
> 
> Or asked another way, why is it not ok to expect Tivo to provide these to us?


I think you're reading too much into what Margret is trying to do. Maybe she should have phrased her request differently.
To my knowledge, TiVo has NEVER offered to participate with us here in this way. TiVo knows what they added and what they changed. Margret has been allowed (posting here requires TiVos blessing, right?) to work with us to publicly document a software release, IIRC something TiVo has never done before. Margret can't outright tell us _everything_ TiVo has changed in the software, but anything _we notice_ is fair game.
This type of interaction can be especially useful for rooting out bugs that don't get squashed during the beta testing phase. 
If you don't want to participate, fine. But don't ruin it for the rest of us.



bradleys said:


> OK - the vetted release notes approved by TiVo for distribution are here. (I realize these are not release notes)
> 
> http://pr.tivo.com/easyir/customrel...ersion=live&prid=839359&releasejsp=custom_150
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's sad that some people want information to be handed to them. Instead, they thread crap and possibly prevent us from getting information we never would have received in the first place.



crxssi said:


> I never got any such message. But perhaps it is because we are in pre-release.


Yeah, TiVo might not even be doing that any longer. 
In the past the message was sent about a week or so after all the subscribers received the update. If you were a participant here, it would be old news, but for the oblivious Tivo user it might be informational.


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

steve614 said:


> Yeah, it's sad that some people want information to be handed to them. Instead, they thread crap and possibly prevent us from getting information we never would have received in the first place.


Perhaps I'm slow, then. I understood her post to be asking the community to compile a list of what had changed in this latest release and help her document it all.

I found this odd that a company would ask this of its users. I expect a company with hundreds of thousands of paying customers to provide this to me. It is a GOOD thing to do. It shows all the great things they are doing.

Someone please explain to me what I'm missing. I feel ashamed now that I want someone I pay hundreds of dollars a year to provide me a list of what's changed. Or has the definition of 'release notes' changed?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Frank - you still don't seem to get the fact that TiVo does not release the kind of release notes you are looking for...

This was potentially an option to get over that hurdle...


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## Frank Furter (Mar 28, 2006)

bradleys said:


> Frank - you still don't seem to get the fact that TiVo does not release the kind of release notes you are looking for...
> 
> This was potentially an option to get over that hurdle...


So that's where the slow part comes in. If TiVo can't release those, then how is an employee of TiVo *here* trying to put them together?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Frank Furter said:


> Perhaps I'm slow, then. I understood her post to be asking the community to compile a list of what had changed in this latest release and help her document it all.
> 
> I found this odd that a company would ask this of its users. I expect a company with hundreds of thousands of paying customers to provide this to me. It is a GOOD thing to do. It shows all the great things they are doing.
> 
> Someone please explain to me what I'm missing. I feel ashamed now that I want someone I pay hundreds of dollars a year to provide me a list of what's changed. Or has the definition of 'release notes' changed?


What you don't understand is (IIRC) TiVo has NEVER compiled a public release notes list before. They are offering to do so now and we have an opportunity to help in that effort. 
Like I said before, if you don't want to be part of the "community" , you don't have to participate. 
Your posts are distracting from what we're trying to do here.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

She isn't... She is allowing us to discover and ask questions about the items in the release... 

Sure, she could have taken the time to put together a summary, gotten it approved for general release through council and communications and started from that point. But I suspect she thought this would be easy and generate a "conversation".

If you look at the level of detail Dave Zatz gets and the level of detail that is released through other media outlets - TiVo seems to be pretty disciplined in how and what it communicates.

This was an avenue to do something different.

Don't you even remotely see that?


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

thimk differant


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

TiVoPony said:


> Nope, we do not provide release notes. Sorry if that bothers some, but trust that the average TiVo subscriber is not into the same level of detail as folks here on the forum. We do what we can, but detailed release notes are not on the horizon. Beat the horse, but don't beat the Pony. Thx.
> 
> Pony


 And this was from 2007 since after every release we kept asking.

From the Major Design Speculation thread


TiVoMargret said:


> (It isn't any fun if I tell you *everything*, right?)





innocentfreak said:


> Only if you do once it rolls out to everyone so we can confirm we found it all.





TiVoMargret said:


> I will do my best, but you may find more than I remember. (I've had this update for awhile now.)


Copied from her Twitter profile, she is the Vice President of User Experience at TiVo. Serving in the role of chief design officer for TiVo's TV, DVR, PC, Mac, Web, and mobile experiences.

As she mentioned in the other thread, in addition to those duties this is the first release she has run.



TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, I'm in California, and although it is past my bedtime I have a bit too much adrenaline to sleep. In addition to my regular design responsibilities, in this case I was also responsible for running the software release. (My first one ever.) So, if there is *anything* you don't like about this new release, it is almost certainly my fault.
> 
> I had an amazing engineering and program team to work with, and what you see in this update is just the beginning. There are more great things coming to Premiere in 2012.


The other part you seem to be missing is she is also giving us the opportunity to inquire why something might have been done the way it was done.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Frank Furter said:


> Perhaps I'm slow, then. I understood her post to be asking the community to compile a list of what had changed in this latest release and help her document it all.


As far as I can tell, that's exactly what she asked for. People keep trying to deflect and explain her request off as something other than what it was. She asked for public assistance putting together release notes. It's in the title. It's in the OP.



bradleys said:


> She is allowing us to discover and ask questions about the items in the release...


People have been doing that here for years. Nobody is 'allowing' us to do anything new. The difference is that now somebody might actually answer the questions. They will likely answer or not answer those questions to the extent that it benefits them, as any for-profit company would be and should be expected to behave.

That said, more openness is a good thing, both for us and for the Tivo corporation. I applaud their move to become more involved with the community.



steve614 said:


> Your posts are distracting from what we're trying to do here.


His posts (or my posts, or your posts) aren't distracting from anything. There's already a well-organized well-maintained thread called "_20.2 changelog thread_". If anything, it's better that changelog items remain confined to that thread instead of split between two or more threads.

In a perfect world, this thread could have been declared a duplicate by the moderators and locked.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

My take on the request is that it's something she's doing in her spare time. People are treating Margret as if she's a programmer or even a manager. Remember,Margret isn't part of the engineering staff, she's VP of user experience and design. She's not likely to know every little change that went in to 20.2 and since she's been running with it for a while now she's less likely to remember what changed as opposed to someone who just received it.

Could she go to the engineers and ask them for a list of everything that's changed in 20.2? Possibly, but like I said, I think this is being unofficially done (likely with official approval). It's not likely that TiVo is going to start using the change list that's come up with here internally or post it on their web site. I think the idea here was to get what changes people noticed and whether they liked the change or not (which would be part of her design job). She could then give reasons as to why things changed or possibly agree that a change wasn't ideal and have it tweaked in a later release.

That's just my opinion as to what's happening.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Frank Furter said:


> All I'm trying to say is, why doesn't TIVO supply us with a list of changes. If I (and others, it appears) are misreading this, then maybe you can clarify what it is you're asking.


I agree.

Margret, while this is kinda fun. It would be a whole lot easier if you would just give us the release notes the way that TivoPony used to do. Then we can tear them apart and tell you what we like and what we don't like.

Thank you both Tivo and Jerry for chiming in here. It means a lot to me (I can't speak for other Tivo users).


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

morac said:


> Could she go to the engineers and ask them for a list of everything that's changed in 20.2? Possibly, but like I said, I think this is being unofficially done


There is no reason it can't be done officially. It was done that way for years. Pony used to post release notes even for small software updates that barely had any impact on anything. He still posted so everyone was on the same page.

At my old job, I managed the user interface. I am by no means a programmer or have much technical knowledge at all. I would tell the software team what we wanted and they would make it happen. Then one day it hit me that we didn't share this information with staff. Most of them would just come in on a Monday morning and find a surprise that changes were made to their system. One day, a staff member asked me a question about a feature we had implemented almost a year prior to that. The staff member had no idea the feature existed. That's when I realized it's because we never bothered to tell them it existed. From that point forward, we published release notes, that were written in plain English.

If I recall, even Tivo used to post Release Notes on the Tivo box itself via a message. I don't see why they can't just go back to that. This last update had some pretty substantial changes. What's the point if you are not going to tell anybody?


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## jpcamaro70 (Nov 23, 2011)

As someone in the community for a short time, but long a member of different forums, I think having a tivo presense is a great thing. It's not just someone who works there, it's someone who get's the ok to officially say she is from tivo.

I see nothing wrong with what they asked. If you don't like it, don't involve yourself in it. I'd rather this board to be go-to for tivo to look at. Hey maybe they'll donate or advertise on here.


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## h2oskierc (Dec 16, 2010)

TiVoJerry said:


> Hopefully her presence here is the (re)start of a beautiful relationship.


I agree, BTW, you can join in too!


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

FWIW, I've been LMAO reading the latest posts to this thread. I hope Margret can read it with a sense of humor, too.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jpcamaro70 said:


> As someone in the community for a short time, but long a member of different forums, I think having a tivo presense is a great thing. It's not just someone who works there, it's someone who get's the ok to officially say she is from tivo.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with what they asked. If you don't like it, don't involve yourself in it. I'd rather this board to be go-to for tivo to look at. Hey maybe they'll donate or advertise on here.


This is what i have been trying to say in a few of my posts in this thread, if you don't want to do as the OP asks, for whatever reason, don't post to this thread, start another Thread as in *I don't want to help Margret and this is why* This is what I am calling respect for what Margret is asking for.
This Thread is already getting out of hand an has little to do with what the OP (Margret) wanted, not good for further participation in this form of TiVo people.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

In the past, a "New features" message would show up when new TiVo software was released. This message never included bug fixes. So if a new version contained only bug fixes, there was no message.

I work in software development in a large company, and we have tech writers that spend a lot of time putting together public release notes using information pulled from the development organization. In general, unless it is something that the customer can see (performance, new or changed features, bugs reported by customers), it doesn't go in the release documentation. So from this perspective, soliciting reported changes from customers and making comments on those observations actually makes sense, in a weird way. For example, one does not want to spill the beans about changes being done in anticipation of some as yet unannounced new functionality. And one does not want to go into detail about tweaks done to some proprietary algorithm.

So thank you, Margret, for your effort :up:


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## Cure (Jan 3, 2003)

Are we any closer to be able to stream our free Amazon Prime content to our TiVos? Now that the software supports streaming, it seems more doable. Please, Margret!


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Sorry if this was asked before but why were the filters removed from the live TV guide? I use them all the time during sporting events and movies. Is there a way that TiVo could consider brining them back.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Cure said:


> Are we any closer to be able to stream our free Amazon Prime content to our TiVos? Now that the software supports streaming, it seems more doable. Please, Margret!


The software has supported streaming (of netflix) for quite a long time.

An answer on this would be nice, and I'm sure appreciated by all.


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## gteague (Apr 1, 2007)

gteague said:


> i don't know if this is the proper thread to report this, but i have an elite and in the hd menus when i hit the 'guide' button the screen sometimes does not completely display or populate with data although the headings and footings and the livetv thumbnail are there. hitting any key populates the screen as it should be. this does not happen ever in the sd menus.
> 
> now i have the channels on the left and the program on the right of the split screen (tivo live guide). i move the cursor to the right part of the screen and use ch+up and ch+down to navigate and just this half of the screen sometimes doesn't display the next screen of data until i hit any key. this also happens in the left (channel) side of the screen. when these things happen, sometimes the info in the top left disappears and sometimes that info lags by up to 10-15 seconds and then appears, but the missing data doesn't reappear no matter how long i wait until i hit any key.
> 
> ...


bad form to quote myself, i guess, as a general rule. but i think i've found the cause of this problem. if you set the clock in sd mode it is displayed in the middle of the screen in hd mode. but my comparison with it on and off show clearly that it causes drawing, re-drawing, and performance problems. removing the clock solved the problems in the quoted text above. hope this helps others.

/guy


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## RoundTuit (Dec 29, 2006)

lessd said:


> This is what i have been trying to say in a few of my posts in this thread, if you don't want to do as the OP asks, for whatever reason, don't post to this thread, start another Thread as in *I don't want to help Margret and this is why* This is what I am calling respect for what Margret is asking for.
> This Thread is already getting out of hand an has little to do with what the OP (Margret) wanted, not good for further participation in this form of TiVo people.


+1


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## hillyard (Nov 1, 2011)

ufo4sale said:


> Sorry if this was asked before but why were the filters removed from the live TV guide? I use them all the time during sporting events and movies. Is there a way that TiVo could consider brining them back.


Number 1 complaint about the premier now is that they removed filters! Hd still has them. was going to upgrade the hd to an elite, but without filters not going to do it as the hd tivo has become the main tivo now.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

hillyard said:


> Number 1 complaint about the premier now is that they removed filters! Hd still has them. was going to upgrade the hd to an elite, but without filters not going to do it as the hd tivo has become the main tivo now.


I think my number one complaint with 20.2 is that it still doesn't make a note of its place in the My Shows list when I press play, and then when I back out into the list later it ends up in the wrong place. This is especially concerning when I intend to back out and immediately delete whatever I was just watching. I use the SDUI.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Frank Furter said:


> So that's where the slow part comes in. If TiVo can't release those, then how is an employee of TiVo *here* trying to put them together?


If you don't like her request, could you please just decide to ignore the thread? Instead of detracting from it? Thanks!


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

L David Matheny said:


> FWIW, I've been LMAO reading the latest posts to this thread. I hope Margret can read it with a sense of humor, too.


Yes, no worries. 

I have been pointed to the changelog thread, and I will use that as a double check along with our internal notes. I promised I would write something up, and I will.

Stay tuned...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

TiVoJerry did say this forum helped his skin. 



TiVoJerry said:


> My skin used to be pretty thick but the negative postings over the years have had an exfoliating effect.
> 
> Hmmm, now that I think about it....keep up the rants! It's taking years off my face.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, no worries.
> 
> I have been pointed to the changelog thread, and I will use that as a double check along with our internal notes. I promised I would write something up, and I will.
> 
> Stay tuned...


THANK YOU!:up:


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, no worries.
> 
> I have been pointed to the changelog thread, and I will use that as a double check along with our internal notes. I promised I would write something up, and I will.
> 
> Stay tuned...


Hi Margret,

I'm copying some of this another thread with the hope you can explain why this change was made.

There is a problem when you want to do a one time recording of a show from the Guide and want to add time to it. If the show is not the next airing, you're forced to scroll through "Upcoming" to find the episode you want to record. This only happens with the HDUI.

Example

Pick a show that's in heavy repeats(Office/Simpsons) or airs nightly(Letterman/Leno/Conan). In the HDUI Guide, select an episode airing sometime in the next 7-10 days and try setting it to record with extra time. When you go into "Season pass & other options", the choice given is "record next episode". Next episode is not what you're trying to record. You have to scroll through "Upcoming" to find it.


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## ItsRounder (Feb 28, 2010)

cherry ghost said:


> Pick a show that's in heavy repeats(Office/Simpsons) or airs nightly(Letterman/Leno/Conan). In the HDUI Guide, select an episode airing sometime in the next 7-10 days and try setting it to record with extra time. When you go into "Season pass & other options", the choice given is "record next episode". Next episode is not what you're trying to record. You have to scroll through "Upcoming" to find it.


Also just setting up a simple season pass for a show defaults to whatever channel has the next showing instead of the channel that the season pass originated from. For example if I use the guide to set up a season pass for 30 Rock on NBC which is channel 808, the season pass might actually get set up for WGN which is channel 709 since they show reruns in the morning. The user shouldn't have to change this because it should automatically default to the channel that the season pass originated from using the guide.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

ItsRounder said:


> Also just setting up a simple season pass for a show defaults to whatever channel has the next showing instead of the channel that the season pass originated from. For example if I use the guide to set up a season pass for 30 Rock on NBC which is channel 808, the season pass might actually get set up for WGN which is channel 709 since they show reruns in the morning. The user shouldn't have to change this because it should automatically default to the channel that the season pass originated from using the guide.


Yes, another example of having to scroll through "Upcoming". I should have included this.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

cherry ghost said:


> Hi Margret,
> Pick a show that's in heavy repeats(Office/Simpsons) or airs nightly(Letterman/Leno/Conan). In the HDUI Guide, select an episode airing sometime in the next 7-10 days and try setting it to record with extra time. When you go into "Season pass & other options", the choice given is "record next episode". Next episode is not what you're trying to record. You have to scroll through "Upcoming" to find it.


In fact, if you select a show that is already set to record, you run into this as well. There should be buttons to "modify recording options" and "cancel this recording" on the first screen that pops up when you select it in the guide. The only options are "record as planned" and "season pass and other options". If you select "season pass and other options", you get the behavior you already described.

Also, I didn't find a good way to change the recording options for a show you are watching and recording at the same time. Clicking info->select used to bring you to a menu where you could change options or cancel the recording. Now the only options are to continue recording or stop recording. This is a step backwards.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

danjw1 said:


> Margret, you might want to keep an eye on this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481338. He did a good job of putting together a summary of the changes with the last release. And Margret, thank you for communicating with the community the way you are!


Yes Kudis @ Margret for takin time away from her busy job to address issues we are experiencing with our devices...

Thanks


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Engadget and The Verge both have posted in the past 24 hours about 20.2 rolling out to the masses. The comments in the discussion are extremely negative on the update. Its probably just trolling but I think it would be beneficial if some positive comments were added to balance the discussion of the update. I've posted my comments as @techwzrd.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/19/tivo-premiere-updates-rolling-out-to-the-masses/

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/20/2720292/tivo-premiere-software-update-now-available-for-everybody


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I promise I will put together Release Notes for our new 20.2 software update for the TiVo Premiere series, but I need your help.
> 
> ...





TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, no worries.
> 
> I have been pointed to the changelog thread, and I will use that as a double check along with our internal notes. I promised I would write something up, and I will.
> 
> Stay tuned...


What ever happened to this?


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

I wouldn't be surprised if she stays out of here due to the pettiness of some being upset that they weren't getting their "creds" for building their own list.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

bacevedo said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if she stays out of here due to the pettiness of some being upset that they weren't getting their "creds" for building their own list.


Or perhaps it is due to mean, unfair, and unsubstantiated personal attacks on other people...


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'm sure TiVo is treading lightly, ''doomed to repeat history'' and all that.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

bacevedo said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if she stays out of here due to the pettiness of some being upset that they weren't getting their "creds" for building their own list.


+1


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