# Mini and tuner allocation



## Riverdome

All this time I've been thinking that an XL4 with a mini would still be able to record 4 shows at once, just not while you are actively using the mini. The more I read it sounds like the XL4 loses a tuner permanently as it is assigned to the mini. Do I have that right?

What exactly is dynamic tuner allocation? The ability for the mini to pull a tuner from either of multiple XL4s? But if you have two XL4s (8 tuners) and a mini - you would effectively always have access to 7 tuners as one tuner is still dedicated to the mini, even if it isn't currently being used.

Right?


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## Dan203

Right now that is right. If you want to watch live TV on a Mini then you have to permanently allocate a tuner to it turning your 4 tuner unit into a 3 tuner unit.

Dynamic tuner allocation works the way you assumed it would work. The host TiVo has access to all of it's tuners for recording unless the Mini is actively using it.


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## Loach

Even with dynamic tuner allocation, I don't think you're going to be able to pull a tuner from either of 2 XL4's. I suppose it's possible, but I'm guessing it will still only pull a tuner from the 4-tuner DVR that it's paired with during setup.


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## Riverdome

Ok so say I have an XL4 and 3 minis spread across the house. When I'm watching live TV on the XL4 I would only have a single tuner - regardless if anyone is actively using any of the minis, correct?


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## compnurd

Riverdome said:


> Ok so say I have an XL4 and 3 minis spread across the house. When I'm watching live TV on the XL4 I would only have a single tuner - regardless if anyone is actively using any of the minis, correct?


We dont know but it looks like no. The Mini would only Use the tuner when someone is watching TV. the person with suddenlink confirmed it has a stand by automatic timer and a stand by mode


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## Loach

You can currently assign only 2 Minis per 4-tuner DVR. And you can allocate 0, 1, or 2 tuners on that DVR for live TV viewing by Minis. If you allocated 1 tuner, then only 1 of your minis could be viewing live TV at any given time.


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## DavidAsher

Loach said:


> You can currently assign only 2 Minis per 4-tuner DVR. And you can allocate 0, 1, or 2 tuners on that DVR for live TV viewing by Minis. If you allocated 1 tuner, then only 1 of your minis could be viewing live TV at any given time.


One thing I never see mentioned: if you allocate no tuners on the Premiere for mini livetv, you can still schedule a recording from the mini for whatever you want to watch "live" and start streaming it from the Premiere right away. Doesn't work for channel surfing, but does for guide surfing.


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## grey ghost

I've got another scenario. If I have a Premier 4 and I buy a Mini, I can assign 2 tuners to the Mini. One night I'm recording on all 4 tuners, can I also watch 2 pre-recorded show on the Mini and the P4 at the same time??


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## jfh3

grey ghost said:


> I've got another scenario. If I have a Premier 4 and I buy a Mini, I can assign 2 tuners to the Mini. One night I'm recording on all 4 tuners, can I also watch 2 pre-recorded show on the Mini and the P4 at the same time??


Logically, you would only ever be recording on two tuners, as the other two would be dedicated to supporting Live TV (though that is like the Stream where it actually starts a recording on the host when you want to watch "live").

But in your scenario you could watch one show on each Mini and one on the DVR at the same time.


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## grey ghost

jfh3 said:


> Logically, you would only ever be recording on two tuners, as the other two would be dedicated to supporting Live TV (though that is like the Stream where it actually starts a recording on the host when you want to watch "live").
> 
> But in your scenario you could watch one show on each Mini and one on the DVR at the same time.


I don't understand your comments about having to reserve 2 of the 4 tuners for live TV. Right now on my Comcast DVR, I can record 2 programs at once while watching another one that was pre-recorded. I think I can do the same on any 2 tuner DVR made by Tivo right now too.

Apparently I didn't express myself very well, let me try again.

I've got a 4 tuner Tivo and a Mini with 2 tuners of the 4 tuner Tivo allocated to it. The Tivo at 9 on Sunday is recording 2 season passes. At the same time, the Mini is recording 2 season passes on it's 2 tuners. All 4 tuners are being used currently recording season passes, but I want to watch something that was previously recorded in the study on the Tivo and my husband wants to watch something on the Mini which was also pre-recorded.

My question is since you can watch a previously recorded program when all your tuners are being used, will you be able to access 2 pre-recorded programs from 2 different sources while recording 4 more?


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## moyekj

grey ghost said:


> I've got a 4 tuner Tivo and a Mini with 2 tuners of the 4 tuner Tivo allocated to it. The Tivo at 9 on Sunday is recording 2 season passes. At the same time, the Mini is recording 2 season passes on it's 2 tuners. All 4 tuners are being used currently recording season passes, but I want to watch something that was previously recorded in the study on the Tivo and my husband wants to watch something on the Mini which was also pre-recorded.


 The Mini doesn't record anything and doesn't have Season Passes of its own - it's leeching off the host unit. The only thing it can use a tuner for is for live TV. Therefore if in your 4 tuner TiVo you allocate 2 tuners for use by Minis then they won't be available for recordings anymore - i.e. You make your 4 tuner unit a 2 tuner unit even if you are not using Minis to watch live TV.
You can always watch a pre-recorded show on either the 4 tuner unit or the Mini regardless of what the tuners are doing.


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## grey ghost

moyekj said:


> The Mini doesn't record anything and doesn't have Season Passes of its own - it's leeching off the host unit. The only thing it can use a tuner for is for live TV. Therefore if in your 4 tuner TiVo you allocate 2 tuners for use by Minis then they won't be available for recordings anymore - i.e. You make your 4 tuner unit a 2 tuner unit even if you are not using Minis to watch live TV.
> You can always watch a pre-recorded show on either the 4 tuner unit or the Mini regardless of what the tuners are doing.


On the Tivo site, it shows that the Mini can set up recordings/season passes from it's interface with the 4 tuner Tivo. I also thought I read that in the Mini setup, you had to tell how many tuners of the Premiere 4 you would allow the Mini to use. I assumed(perhaps improperly) that the reason for that question was to artificially create a 2 tuner DVR on the Mini that would be able to schedule 2 recordings at any time.


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## moyekj

grey ghost said:


> On the Tivo site, it shows that the Mini can set up recordings/season passes from it's interface with the 4 tuner Tivo. I also thought I read that in the Mini setup, you had to tell how many tuners of the Premiere 4 you would allow the Mini to use. I assumed(perhaps improperly) that the reason for that question was to artificially create a 2 tuner DVR on the Mini that would be able to schedule 2 recordings at any time.


 No, when you schedule recordings and season passes they are all on the host 4 tuner DVR, just like when you schedule recordings using iOS/Android apps.


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## jfh3

grey ghost said:


> On the Tivo site, it shows that the Mini can set up recordings/season passes from it's interface with the 4 tuner Tivo. I also thought I read that in the Mini setup, you had to tell how many tuners of the Premiere 4 you would allow the Mini to use. I assumed(perhaps improperly) that the reason for that question was to artificially create a 2 tuner DVR on the Mini that would be able to schedule 2 recordings at any time.


There is no recordings done on a Mini. It only streams content from a host TiVo.

The Mini can schedule a recording on the Host than can later be streamed to the Mini (in the case of watching Live TV, later may only be a few seconds)


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## grey ghost

moyekj said:


> No, when you schedule recordings and season passes they are all on the host 4 tuner DVR, just like when you schedule recordings using iOS/Android apps.


Yea, I got that. Perhaps I'm just thinking about it wrong, but I'm rationalizing that the Mini would be a "virtual 2 tuner Tivo" if I allocated 2 tuners to the Mini. While you could program recordings/season passes on the Mini, I realize that the actual recording will be happening on the 4 tuner Tivo.

It says on the Tivo website that you must dedicate at least 1 tuner to the Mini. Are you saying that when you do that, you will never be able to use that tuner for anything other than live TV? You won't ever be able to allocate all 4 tuners again at the same time??

Comcast is behind the times here, so I've never scheduled a recording on an iOS app.


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## moyekj

grey ghost said:


> It says on the Tivo website that you must dedicate at least 1 tuner to the Mini. Are you saying that when you do that, you will never be able to use that tuner for anything other than live TV? You won't ever be able to allocate all 4 tuners again at the same time??


 You have the choice to dedicate 0 tuners to the Mini in which case you keep all 4 tuners available for the host unit but also means no live TV possible with the Mini. As soon as you dedicate a tuner to the Mini it is out of the pool of tuners used for recording. If you look at the various threads and comments from TiVo there is talk of upcoming enhancements related to "dynamic tuner allocation" where the Mini will only use the tuner when needed for live TV but freeing it up for recordings otherwise which is of course a much better solution. But if you are thinking of buying a Mini you shouldn't count that as a given that it will ever happen, even though it is likely.


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## StupidFatHobbit

grey ghost said:


> Perhaps I'm just thinking about it wrong, but I'm rationalizing that the Mini would be a "virtual 2 tuner Tivo" if I allocated 2 tuners to the Mini. While you could program recordings/season passes on the Mini, I realize that the actual recording will be happening on the 4 tuner Tivo.


No, that is not how it works. The dedicated tuner(or tuners) on the Premiere 4/XL4 is/are dedicated SOLELY for LiveTV use by the (currently up to 2) Mini's attached to the Premiere.

Any recordings scheduled on the Mini are really being scheduled on the Premier just as though you were scheduling them on the Premiere itself. The Mini is just providing the UI so you don't have to physically walk to and use the Premiere's remote.

This is how it will work until the so-called "dynamic tuner allocation" is released at some point in the future (rumored Q2 2013). At that point (via the same rumors) you will be able to attach up to 9 Minis to the same Premiere and the tuners will no longer be dedicated to the pool of Mini's, but allocated to the Mini's as needed -- allowing them to be used as regular recording tuners as well.


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## jrtroo

grey ghost said:


> It says on the Tivo website that you must dedicate at least 1 tuner to the Mini.


Not true. If it is on their website, it is a typo -or- you are thinking about live tv from this quote:


> The TiVo Mini requires the use of a dedicated tuner on your 4-tuner DVR to stream live TV.


The mini can use 0 tuners and just stream from a four tuner model.

That is why you see some complaints- folks with two tuner models would like to use this to just stream recordings...


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## Dan203

TiVo must have some data suggesting that a good percentage of their customers still watch live TV, otherwise I'm not sure why they would focus so much attention on that capability.

Honestly if I had a Mini I would dedicate 0 tuners to live TV and use it for streaming only. I've watched live TV maybe once in the last 2 years and that was breaking news. If there really was something like that going on I could just move to the other TV or use the Mini to setup a recording of the news channel and then stream that recording. I have no need to watch real live TV on a Mini, or any TiVo really.


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## grey ghost

moyekj said:


> No, when you schedule recordings and season passes they are all on the host 4 tuner DVR, just like when you schedule recordings using iOS/Android apps.


Thanks for the corrections guys. I appreciate it because I'm really trying to figure out a solution for the master bedroom and that's where my husband DVRs all his shows. I'm trying to figure out if a Mini will work in that area so we can get rid of a Comcast DVR or if we just need to get a regular Tivo there.


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## Bigg

How many Minis can one Premiere 4 support? I've heard 3, but TiVo's website suggests that it could support the full 9 now, albeit without dynamic tuner allocation.


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## Dan203

You can only allocate 2 tuners to live TV and the maximum number of out going streams a single TiVo supports is 3. So based on that you could never use more then 3 Minis with the same host concurrently. And never use more then 2 to watch live TV. 

That being said I think the maximum number of Minis you can physically have registered on one ac**** is 9, so that's the most you could ever actually have in one household.


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## Bigg

Dan203 said:


> You can only allocate 2 tuners to live TV and the maximum number of out going streams a single TiVo supports is 3. So based on that you could never use more then 3 Minis with the same host concurrently. And never use more then 2 to watch live TV.
> 
> That being said I think the maximum number of Minis you can physically have registered on one ac**** is 9, so that's the most you could ever actually have in one household.


The impression I got before was that you could only ever have 3 paired to one Premiere4, so you can actually have 9 Minis paired to a single Premiere4, and you can use 3 at once?


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## Loach

Bigg said:


> How many Minis can one Premiere 4 support? I've heard 3, but TiVo's website suggests that it could support the full 9 now, albeit without dynamic tuner allocation.


DigitalDawn (the member who broke the news about the launch in the Tivo Mini Lives thread) originally indicated that each 4-tuner Premiere would initially only support 2 Minis. But you are right - I can't find anything on Tivo's support pages that confirms that. All I see is this statement:

"A maximum of 10 TiVo devices per account, including TiVo Mini, can share programming."

That sort of implies the full 9 could be supported.


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## Dan203

Bigg said:


> The impression I got before was that you could only ever have 3 paired to one Premiere4, so you can actually have 9 Minis paired to a single Premiere4, and you can use 3 at once?


I don't know for sure. It depends on how the Mini pairs to the host. If it's like another TiVo and just calls up it's My Shows via RPC as needed, then the only limit should be the account limit which is a max of 10 devices per account. (i.e. TiVo + 9 Minis) However if it actually does some special pairing with the host then there could be some imposed limit I'm not aware of.

Although based on what's been said I don't think it does any special pairing at the host side. It seems to dynamically poll the host for a free tuner when watching live TV, which is how two Minis can share a host with only 1 tuner allocated to live TV. And the UI is really no different then what can also be done via the iPad app and there is no limitation to that.

The only hard limitations are the 10 device per account limit and the max 3 network streams limit on the TiVo.


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## Bigg

Loach said:


> DigitalDawn (the member who broke the news about the launch in the Tivo Mini Lives thread) originally indicated that each 4-tuner Premiere would initially only support 2 Minis. But you are right - I can't find anything on Tivo's support pages that confirms that. All I see is this statement:
> 
> "A maximum of 10 TiVo devices per account, including TiVo Mini, can share programming."
> 
> That sort of implies the full 9 could be supported.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. This will make it a lot more interesting for households with only a few people but a lot of TVs...


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## Ruby

Can anyone verify this from TiVo Support:

Tuner allocation troubleshooting

TiVo Mini requires the use of a dedicated tuner on your host DVR to stream Live TV. The host DVR allocates up to two tuners to TiVo Mini and other networked devices on a first-come, first-served basis. If other devices are currently using all available tuners dedicated for Live TV streaming, you will need to release a tuner for TiVo Mini to use.

Releasing a tuner for other TiVo devices

Once you access the host DVR's tuner from TiVo Mini, that tuner is not available for other network devices. When you are done using the Mini and want to release the host tuner to other network devices (e.g., another TiVo Mini, TiVo Stream), press the TiVo button to return to TiVo Central and release the tuner.

Unless you actively release the tuner, it remains locked by TiVo Mini for an hour and a half. If there is no remote activity on TiVo Mini during this time, it is automatically released.

Is that TiVo Central on the Mini? Does it really release the tuner onits own?

Thanks.


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## Dan203

Both are true.

So if you have multiple Minis but never plan on using more then one for live TV at a given time then you can dedicate just one tuner to live TV, keeping 3 for the host, and share that one tuner amongst all your Minis on a first come first serve basis.


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## Ruby

Thanks, Dan.

Reading your response made me realize the tuner sharing is among networked devices not the host DVR as I wished. So, that one tuner, for example, remains lost to the host.

Too bad.


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## Dan203

Yes. Until they get dynamic tuner allocation working you have to permanently allocate a tuner to network devices if you want to be able to watch live TV. If you don't care about live TV you can just turn that feature off and give all the tuners back to the host. Someone else even mentioned a work around where you turn off live TV and instead use the guide on the Mini to start a recording and then start streaming the recording instead. Not quite as convenient as real live TV, but a decent work around if you don't watch much live TV and don't want to permanently sacrifice a tuner for it.


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## Ruby

Thanks, I was aware of that workaround and I have a Tivo Stream that works that way. I was hoping this was another option while waiting for dynamic allocation.

Still deciding whether to take the plunge.


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## Ruby

Dan,

FYI, I just installed a Mini without LiveTV. It's only been a few minutes but I'm satisfied.


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## bdraw

The work around is great as long as you don't like to channel surf, and what TiVo user does?


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## Dan203

A lot more then you'd think. I think TiVo had a stat that said more then 50% of their users still regularly watch live TV. I just want to tell them all... "You're doing that wrong".


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## jmpage2

bdraw said:


> The work around is great as long as you don't like to channel surf, and what TiVo user does?


My wife likes to watch live TV all the time, so if the Mini couldn't pull a tuner it would be a deal breaker in my household. I on the other hand only watch news live, everything else I watch recorded.


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## Bigg

bdraw said:


> The work around is great as long as you don't like to channel surf, and what TiVo user does?


Live news. Maybe live sports, although if you're really watching them, you'd be on the main TV with surround sound, a screen the size of Texas, and a Premiere.


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## CoxInPHX

Since it seems the 2 tuner Premieres may never be able to act as a host DVR for the Mini, does that also mean that when dynamic tuner allocation is released that the 2 tuners will also not be in the available pool of tuners for the Mini?

For those with multiple Premieres it would seem logical to put all available tuners onto the network for Live TV.

Is having all tuners on the network possible on the current Premiere hardware? not just those of the Host DVR.

In my case I would rather pull a Live TV tuner from one of my regular Premieres, than use one off the Elite/XL4. The same would apply for someone using OTA on a 2 tuner.


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## sbiller

CoxInPHX said:


> Since it seems the 2 tuner Premieres may never be able to act as a host DVR for the Mini, does that also mean that when dynamic tuner allocation is released that the 2 tuners will also not be in the available pool of tuners for the Mini?


I believe the answer is yes, the base Premiere tuners will not be in the available pool of tuners for the Mini. Thinking about DTA some more, I'm wondering if DTA will be sophisticated enough to know that there are multiple host-DVRs available on the network or if a user would still be required to assign a host-DVR to the Mini. I suspect the latter but hope for the former.


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## overFEDEXed

sbiller said:


> I believe the answer is yes, the base Premiere tuners will not be in the available pool of tuners for the Mini. Thinking about DTA some more, I'm wondering if DTA will be sophisticated enough to know that there are multiple host-DVRs available on the network or if a user would still be required to assign a host-DVR to the Mini. I suspect the latter but hope for the former.


I have three Two-tuner Premiere's, just sitting in their boxes, new. I picked them up cheap and thought about selling them. If this is true, oh well.

Maybe these units will be eligible for the $150 or $99 Lifetime soon, or at least the $6.95 plan. Tivo did let me do one transfer of the $6.95 plan, from an HD to a Premiere. At least they still have OTA, built-in.


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## Bigg

I don't think there are plans to ever have cross-DVR DTA, it's only within one DVR, and a Mini will always be paired to that DVR only. It can stream content from other Premieres, but not live TV.


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## jmpage2

I agree, they have to prioritize development and get the most bang for their buck. I think they are absolutely moving towards a single DVR centric solution which will benefit most users even if it's an annoyance to some.

First thing they need to do is get the XL4 even lower price-wise and then release a six tuner unit with faster CPU.


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## Dan203

I agree. A Mini will always be paired to a specific host and only be able to pull a tuner from that host. I also think that once DTA is working you will still be limited to allocating just 2 tuners to network streaming. The reason being is that leaves 1 tuner for local live viewing on the host and 1 tuner for recording. That seems to be the minimum experience TiVo expects. (i.e. watch one thing while recording another) Once we get a 6 tuner then that will likely have the ability to allocate 3-4 tuners to the network if you so desire.


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## bdraw

Bigg said:


> Live news. Maybe live sports, although if you're really watching them, you'd be on the main TV with surround sound, a screen the size of Texas, and a Premiere.





jmpage2 said:


> My wife likes to watch live TV all the time, so if the Mini couldn't pull a tuner it would be a deal breaker in my household. I on the other hand only watch news live, everything else I watch recorded.


I said if you like to channel surf. I watch sports and news live as well. But I record everything I like to watch, including the stuff I plan to watch live -- never know if something comes up. For news shows, I just set them to only keep two episodes. With four live tuners, you could easily record your four favorite news shows channels and switch between them and still watch 'live".


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## Ruby

Has anyone tried allocating a tuner; using it with the Mini for a while and then deallocating it? That is, could I put my XL4 back the way it was?

Sorry if this has been answered previously, I couldn't find it.


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## moyekj

Ruby said:


> Has anyone tried allocating a tuner; using it with the Mini for a while and then deallocating it? That is, could I put my XL4 back the way it was?
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered previously, I couldn't find it.


 Yes, you can do that. Only catch is any recordings currently happening on host 4 tuner unit will be cancelled, so you have to choose a time when nothing important is recording to do it.


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## Ruby

Thanks, that caveat is very good to know or I could end up with a very upset wife!


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## Gadfly

Dan203 said:


> TiVo must have some data suggesting that a good percentage of their customers still watch live TV, otherwise I'm not sure why they would focus so much attention on that capability.
> 
> Honestly if I had a Mini I would dedicate 0 tuners to live TV and use it for streaming only. I've watched live TV maybe once in the last 2 years and that was breaking news. If there really was something like that going on I could just move to the other TV or use the Mini to setup a recording of the news channel and then stream that recording. I have no need to watch real live TV on a Mini, or any TiVo really.


Same here except I just found out I need to allocate a tuner for live TV if I want to watch Xfinity on-demand on my Mini. I was hoping this works like YouTube but that isn't the case.


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## Bigg

bdraw said:


> I said if you like to channel surf. I watch sports and news live as well. But I record everything I like to watch, including the stuff I plan to watch live -- never know if something comes up. For news shows, I just set them to only keep two episodes. With four live tuners, you could easily record your four favorite news shows channels and switch between them and still watch 'live".


True, it's a reasonable workaround to just schedule things to record, although it might be a pain if you forgot have to go in and record, and then play that back.


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## Dan203

Gadfly said:


> Same here except I just found out I need to allocate a tuner for live TV if I want to watch Xfinity on-demand on my Mini. I was hoping this works like YouTube but that isn't the case.


I forgot about Xfinity. Someone just explained to me how that works and that it actually uses a tuner on the TiVo. I had always assumed it was completely IP based since it's available on XBox, which doesn't have a tuner. However apparently on TiVo it actually works more like traditional VOD just with communication going over the internet rather then up the line like it does with a regular box.

We're on Charter here so I don't even have the option to use VOD.


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## Bigg

Dan203 said:


> I forgot about Xfinity. Someone just explained to me how that works and that it actually uses a tuner on the TiVo. I had always assumed it was completely IP based since it's available on XBox, which doesn't have a tuner. However apparently on TiVo it actually works more like traditional VOD just with communication going over the internet rather then up the line like it does with a regular box.
> 
> We're on Charter here so I don't even have the option to use VOD.


Yup. It's literally regular VOD with a little bit of bridge code written to do the commands over IP. Comcast's IP-VOD is a subset of their regular VOD selection, and is available online on their website.


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