# IR receiver on S4 not as sensitive as S3



## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

I have a little bit of an unusual setup, my stereo receiver, DVD and TiVo are located in a open front cabinet that is built into the wall behind the couch that I sit on while watching a flat panel mounted on the wall in the front of the room. I installed all of this into the house when it was built and it's a nice setip. For the past 5 years I have had my TiVO (first an S2 and then an S3) in this cabinet and have been able to control them by aiming my remote at the front of the room. The IR signals bounce off the front wall and are received by the S2/S3 TiVO just fine. In fact, it pretty much doesn't matter where I aim the remote in my viewing room, the S2 and S3 receive the signal just fine.

Now I have a Premier XL and it does not receive the IR signals from the remote well at all. In fact, even when I aim the remote in the direction of the Premier it does not receive the signals well, I must aim precisely at the unit in order for it to receive the signals.

I have tried my old S3 Glo remote and the new Premier remote and both perform just as poorly when controlling the Premier though both control my S3 just fine. This leads me to believe the problem is that the sensitivity of the IR _receiver_ on the Premier is substantially less than the IR receiver on the S2 and S3.

*First question, does anyone have any information or recommendations on how to improve this situation?*

I thought I had a solution, I dug up my old NextGen IR extender and hooked it up. This worked well with an S1 and S2 that I used to have setup in a closed cabinet. Much to my chagrin this doesn't work either, though for unexpected reasons. After hooking the NextGen IR extender up the _first_ button I hit is always received, but subsequent buttons hit within 15 seconds are ignored. For example, I hit fast forward three times to zip through a commercial, but only the first button press is understood by the TiVO. If I wait 15 seconds then I can hit another button. This is extremely annoying when trying to control the TiVO, especially when you are trying to navigate menus, enter program titles, etc.

* My second question is, my NextGen IR extender is 5 or more years old, does anyone know for a fact that a newer NextGen IR extender will work, or is there another way to do this?*


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

IN all my rooms I can point the Premiere remotes or my Harmony remotes in any direction(even pointed at the back of the couch) and the Premiere receives the IR signal just like my S3/TiVoHD boxes did.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> IN all my rooms I can point the Premiere remotes or my Harmony remotes in any direction(even pointed at the back of the couch) and the Premiere receives the IR signal just like my S3/TiVoHD boxes did.


I wonder if the IR receiver on my particular unit is bad then.


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## chabuchie (Sep 16, 2006)

Both of mine are a little more finicky than my older TiVo's or my cable boxes ever were. I ended up turning one of them a little in the cabinet so it faces my preferred seat in the living room. At least now I don't have to get up to make sure I'm aiming the remote exactly perpendicular to the front of the box!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

All my boxes are parallel to the edge of the shelves they are on. And at or very near the edge. I have them in several rooms, all with identical results of being able to point the remote in any direction.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> All my boxes are parallel to the edge of the shelves they are on. And at or very near the edge. I have them in several rooms, all with identical results of being able to point the remote in any direction.


I thought about this as well, I have my Premiere moved to the edge of the shelf to give it the greatest degree of "visibility" to the IR signals bouncing around the room. I have my S3 now positioned directly on top of the Premiere and it works fine while I must aim my remote directly at the Premiere.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

Here is an update. I got another S4 sent to me by TiVo due to another problem. The new TiVo doesn't perform any better in the IR sensitivity category, so this is definitely a design flaw.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the sensitivity of the S4's IR receiver?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

I get better results pointing the remote above the DVR than I do pointing the remote directly at it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

glee_hokie said:


> Here is an update. I got another S4 sent to me by TiVo due to another problem. The new TiVo doesn't perform any better in the IR sensitivity category, so this is definitely a design flaw.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the sensitivity of the S4's IR receiver?


I wonder why all of mine have no issues. Where ever the remote is lying, whatever direction, I just press the buttons and the TiVos respond. It's been years since I actually pointed a remote at my TiVos(except when setting the IR code)

Have you tried replacing the batteries in the remote? I never use the batteries that come with devices. I always install my own batteries.


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

I also have a much more sensitive IR receiver in the S4. We really have to point it at the tivo, and I can't even use it from behind the couch unless it has direct line of sight.

Also, I do have a newer NextGen extender (the UFO looking thing), and can also confirm that it does not work with the Premiere. Button presses are definitely missed. It's actually a big frustration, as we had a Series 2 before with the NextGen, and it worked flawlessly. I had to move the tivo under the TV until I can figure this issue out. I used to have my Series 2 in the closet near our ethernet/cable junction box under the stairs.

I think the NextGen may not work due to the new placement of the batteries in the new tivo remote. The batteries used to be inline, and now are side-by-side. The series 2 remote had to have the battery in the rear position in order for the NextGen to work. Oddly enough, this is where both batteries are located in the Premiere.


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## i2k (Apr 3, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> IN all my rooms I can point the Premiere remotes or my Harmony remotes in any direction(even pointed at the back of the couch) and the Premiere receives the IR signal just like my S3/TiVoHD boxes did.


same here. :up:


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## Henry3NYC (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm experiencing issues with my remote as well. 

When I wake up in the morning and I first try to use the remote, the Premiere box doesn't seem to recognize my input (no orange flash on the front). Oddly enough, pressing volume up and down (which adjusts my TV... not my TiVo) then creates an orange flicker on my TiVo box. After that, my TiVo functions properly. Weird, huh?

I also am having an issue with the remote itself that I think is a hardware issue -- not software. Quite often, when I am clicking the rocker Up, instead it sends out a click of the Select button. The sensors are too close together or something. I'm holding off on returning it for now because I'd like to purchase the remote with keyboard when it becomes available.


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

I share the OP's experience. My S4's remote reception is not as sensitive as my S3 was. Where I could point pretty much anywhere with the S3 remote, I have to make a specific effort to aim the S4's remote at the base unit to ensure that button presses are not missed. This is more than a minor annoyance, to be honest. I might spend money on an IR repeater just to fix this. :sigh:


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## musictoo (Oct 8, 2003)

Bounce it off a mirror


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

The Premiere's front panel design differs from all prior models in that the IR sensor is soldered directly to the mainboard, external light is transmitted from the front panel to the sensor through a light pipe (and conversely the front panel lights are just light pipes that sit above LEDs on the mainboard). All prior models had the IR sensor itself mounted in the front panel (which was connected to the mainboard with a ribbon cable). Making the front panel "dumb" clearly reduces the cost of the S4 hardware (presumably making volume pricing much more attractive to cable companies). You can see the IR sensor and light pipes in this photo here: link.

Additionally, it appears that the IR sensor is sometimes not properly aligned internally with the incoming light pipe.

Roll all these together (along with ambient light interference, reflections, and the like), and the IR sensitivity of the Premiere is not as good as S3/S2s.


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## Johnwashere (Sep 17, 2005)

I used a old IR extender I bought from ebay about a year ago on tivo HD and it really screwed with my IR reciever on tivo. I ended up unplugging it and using a tivo remote control app for my android phone and my ipod.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> I wonder why all of mine have no issues. Where ever the remote is lying, whatever direction, I just press the buttons and the TiVos respond. It's been years since I actually pointed a remote at my TiVos(except when setting the IR code)


This is true for my S3 and my TiVoHDs, not true for my S4. Right now my S4 is sitting right on top of my S3, to it's in the same conditions.



aaronwt said:


> Have you tried replacing the batteries in the remote? I never use the batteries that come with devices. I always install my own batteries.


Yes, I've tried new batteries.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

i2k said:


> same here. :up:


Well, I suppose that gives me some hope that it's not a design issue and that it might just be the *two* S4s that I have.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

puffdaddy said:


> The Premiere's front panel design differs from all prior models in that the IR sensor is soldered directly to the mainboard, external light is transmitted from the front panel to the sensor through a light pipe (and conversely the front panel lights are just light pipes that sit above LEDs on the mainboard). All prior models had the IR sensor itself mounted in the front panel (which was connected to the mainboard with a ribbon cable). Making the front panel "dumb" clearly reduces the cost of the S4 hardware (presumably making volume pricing much more attractive to cable companies). You can see the IR sensor and light pipes in this photo here: link.
> 
> Additionally, it appears that the IR sensor is sometimes not properly aligned internally with the incoming light pipe.
> 
> Roll all these together (along with ambient light interference, reflections, and the like), and the IR sensitivity of the Premiere is not as good as S3/S2s.


I guess this explains it then. Maybe there was a batch that wasn't lined up properly.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

mine works great. If possible, even better than the HD.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

puffdaddy said:


> The Premiere's front panel design differs from all prior models in that the IR sensor is soldered directly to the mainboard, external light is transmitted from the front panel to the sensor through a light pipe (and conversely the front panel lights are just light pipes that sit above LEDs on the mainboard). All prior models had the IR sensor itself mounted in the front panel (which was connected to the mainboard with a ribbon cable). Making the front panel "dumb" clearly reduces the cost of the S4 hardware (presumably making volume pricing much more attractive to cable companies). You can see the IR sensor and light pipes in this photo here: link.
> 
> Additionally, it appears that the IR sensor is sometimes not properly aligned internally with the incoming light pipe.
> 
> Roll all these together (along with ambient light interference, reflections, and the like), and the IR sensitivity of the Premiere is not as good as S3/S2s.


Now that's exactly the type of thing I was looking for. I haven't open my S4 since it's not working yet (cable card issues) and I may send it back to TiVo. I'm not phased by moving the IR receiver off the board and up to the front panel to fix this problem if I have to. I am also going to look at whether I can change the gain on the op-amp that is being fed by the IR receiver. If you have any info on that it would be helpful.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I would be suspicious of the alignment as our experiences seem to vary. My Premiere and Premiere XL are both as sensitive or better than the HD they replaced (No original S3 for comparison)


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## treat2day (Mar 27, 2010)

My Glo remote has always been a issue with THD, S3 and now Premiere. My friends dumped the Glo remote because a better response on the standard remote.

After I swap out batteries the Glo remote response is flawless for a couple of weeks. Then back to crappy response. I thought the backlight maybe the issue of draining battery so I turned it off. Replaced the battery again and in a few weeks I was back dealing with this silly IR issue.

Sometimes when I point the remote in the opposite direction it clears whatever and immediately after it works flawless when I use it. 

My conclusion is that the remote is in conflict with other units. 

The harmon replacement is starting to look more attractive. I hate making a new purchase for a silly thing like a IR response.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

harmony works wonders for me. Had the "One" for two years now, and the 670 before that.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

TiVo replaced my first Premiere XL in order to address a cable card issue. The second TiVo has exactly the same performance characteristics on the IR receiver --- not good.


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## glee_hokie (Sep 28, 2005)

Does anyone have a recommended procedure to properly align the light pipe with the IR receiver?


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## Burdy (Mar 13, 2003)

I just set up my new XL4 and noticed fairly quickly that the IR reception was noticeably worse than my old Series 3. My favorite couch is perpendicular to the TiVo, and to make matters worse my habit of holding the remote (Harmony 650 or the supplied Glo remote) angled toward the ceiling no longer worked (the other devices sharing the same cabinet can be controlled with no issues). 

Glad I noticed this thread and the reference to the light pipe alignment... it was a simple matter to remove the cover and see that there was almost a 1/4" gap between the end of the light pipe and the infrared receiver on the motherboard. There was a slight amount of 'give' in the receiver's plastic mount which was enough to bring it into closer proximity to the light pipe which I stabilized with a piece of tape-- problem solved! 

Granted the HD interface is slower than the Series 3, but I suspect that missed IR commands on similarly assembled units are responsible for a fair amount of frustration...


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## Mike-Wolf (Feb 25, 2013)

glee_hokie said:


> Here is an update. I got another S4 sent to me by TiVo due to another problem. The new TiVo doesn't perform any better in the IR sensitivity category, so this is definitely a design flaw.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the sensitivity of the S4's IR receiver?


I haven't had any problems with my series 4 models, but I did find that if I use AA lithium batteries like the ones Energizer makes, I get even better performance, like being able to control the devices outside the room they're in because it boosts the transmit power of the IR transmitter on the remote. It's worth trying out, and worse case is at least you won't have to replace the batteries for a year.


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