# More than two channels?



## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Any thoughts on why Tivo didn't elect to record more than two channels? Cable card supports six channels. HD capable disks support 10 separate HD streams.

Too cheap to buy powerful chip set?
Want to sell more boxes with revenue stream?
Other?


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

My guess is cost. When the S3 was first released, cost was the #1 complaint.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

vstone said:


> Want to sell more boxes with revenue stream


I am guessing this one. TiVo doesn't make money on selling hardware. They make their money on selling subscriptions. Having a TiVo with 6 tuners does not make them any more money than having a TiVo with 2 tuners.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

I don't know... but I've decided that until Tivo supports 3 or more tuners, I will not be upgrading.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Phasers said:


> I don't know... but I've decided that until Tivo supports 3 or more tuners, I will not be upgrading.


Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.


True, no great new capability, just some improvements. If they were truely interested in Energy Star they would support 3 or 4 tuners with increased support fees, but then many would cry foul.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

LifeIsABeach said:


> I am guessing this one. TiVo doesn't make money on selling hardware. They make their money on selling subscriptions. Having a TiVo with 6 tuners does not make them any more money than having a TiVo with 2 tuners.


The problem only with this is it also appears they have done away with the easy way to control more than one TiVo in a room. This of course was with the DVR switch on the remote. There may still be a way that isn't obvious but until someone tests it we have no way of knowing.

It doesn't gain them any money either if people like myself who want 6 tuners per TiVo instead of buying an additional TiVo invest in other options. If I hadn't presold my HDs, I wouldn't have upgraded since for me I sold them for what I am paying for the XLs. Meanwhile I am counting down to the release of the Ceton 4 tuner card rather than for the shipment of my premieres.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

vstone said:


> True, no great new capability, just some improvements. If they were truely interested in Energy Star they would support 3 or 4 tuners with increased support fees, but then many would cry foul.


Why would there be increassed support fees. Tuners are modules, not single cards ?


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## Johnwashere (Sep 17, 2005)

Does cable card Mcard allow more then 2 shows to be viewed anyways? I just figured M cablecards could only do 2 streams...


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Johnwashere said:


> Does cable card Mcard allow more then 2 shows to be viewed anyways? I just figured M cablecards could only do 2 streams...


I have heard its either 6-7 streams. (per card). Really 4 tuners should be the norm now. There is no technical reason why not.


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## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

Johnwashere said:


> Does cable card Mcard allow more then 2 shows to be viewed anyways? I just figured M cablecards could only do 2 streams...


Per the CableCard Wikipedia page, it supports up to 6. For example, the Ceton tuners will take one M Card with 4 tuners.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Keen said:


> Per the CableCard Wikipedia page, it supports up to 6. For example, the Ceton tuners will take one M Card with 4 tuners.


Actually Ceton is making a 6 tuner card also. It is just Microsoft who limits the home user to 4 so they are making the 4 tuner card first.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> The problem only with this is it also appears they have done away with the easy way to control more than one TiVo in a room. This of course was with the DVR switch on the remote. There may still be a way that isn't obvious but until someone tests it we have no way of knowing.
> 
> .....


I currently have four TiVos in one room and have no difficulty controlling them. Each one has a different remote code. So I just select the TiVo wit my Harmony remote and then it controls that specific TiVo.

I would hope the Premiere is the same way, otherwise I am going to have problems since I will have two Premiere XL units in that room.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I only have two in the same room, but I definitely hope there is still a way to do it. It bothers me that they removed the option on the new remotes though even if it is possible to do a shortcut people used on the Series 1.

I always stick with the TiVo remote since I only have a few devices at my main TV.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> Why would there be increassed support fees. Tuners are modules, not single cards ?


True, so the other question is how much extra would you pay for 4 or 6 tuners? Tivo lives on its revenue stream, not box sales. More than 2 tuners eats away at their income. The increased fees would make up for the loss of extra revenue streams


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

vstone said:


> True, so the other question is how much extra would you pay for 4 or 6 tuners?


Not much more then Moxi


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

The most I would pay is around $699 for a 4 tuner TiVo with at least a 1TB preferably 1.5-2TB drive. I think I would pay up to $999 for a 6 tuner TiVo, but it would definitely need 1.5TB preferably 2TB or it could even be dual drives with two 1TB drives. I would even be open to a 6 Tuner TiVo having a lifetime price of $500 for MSD and $599 with new lifetime.

I figure at 2 Premieres you are paying $600 which gets you 4 tuners and 640gb of recording space. Now you are also doing two cases, two motherboards, two PSUs, and two drives which cost TiVo obviously more than 1 of each. I would even guess if they needed to make it more powerful it would be equal to the price of double each component.

I figure at 3 Premieres you are paying $900 which gets you 6 tuners and 960GB of recording space, but also triple of everything not to mention the cost of 3 320gb drives versus 1TB. Looking at OEM prices, a 320gb drive is 47.99 for the WD AV model and for the 1TB it is 89.99 for the WD AV model. Obviously TiVo pays less than this but 1 drive versus three definitely saves them money.

They could keep it at only dual buffers and the 4 tuner I think should support up to two rooms for streaming which based off Moxi should be possible with a higher chip. If they wanted to keep it at 1 transfer I would be ok with it though 2 would be nicer. I think for the 6 tuner it would need up to 3 rooms streaming possibly 4 and at least 2 transfers at the same time. Now I don't know if there is a chip out there yet that would really make the 6 tuner a reality.

To Compare Moxi prices, you are looking at $599 for a 3 tuner with 500gb.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Phasers said:


> I don't know... but I've decided that until Tivo supports 3 or more tuners, I will not be upgrading.


I agree with you on this! Plus I am not seeing that much of an improvement on the S4 to make me want to upgrade. I get it that Tivo doesn't make much money from the hardware but until they make a giant leap forward in this area, my money is staying in my wallet.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

why do you all have more than one Tivo in a room?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Because I only have 2 TVs active in this house, and 2+2 tuners isn't enough so it is easier to have two TiVos in the same room. 

Back when I was on Directv I had 5 active DirecTivos running over 3 rooms. Of course it was only $5 extra a month and I bought most of them used for cheap.

I think if I had 12 tuners total with one centralized season pass list I would be happy.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

I am confused still, you have 2 tivos on one tv? so that way you have 4 tuners?


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## t1voproof (Feb 6, 2010)

I have three Series 2 on a single tv (3 tuners total).


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Mike-Mike said:


> I am confused still, you have 2 tivos on one tv? so that way you have 4 tuners?


Yeah in my bedroom I have 1 TiVo HD with a 1TB drive I upgraded on input 1 and 1 TiVo HD with the stock drive on input 2. This way I have 4 tuners on one tv so one Tivo for example might be set for Fox and NBC while the other is for CBS and ABC. The third Tivo in the other room records the CW when needed and also whatever I will watch most out there. Some shows may be duplicated but I just found the transfers too slow.

They still have separate season pass lists so it can be a pain to manage. I just use the one remote though since it has the DVR switch on it and they are set to different addresses.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.


Why 3 tuners? I want at least 4, if not 6. 6 is what M cards support. Anything less is a waste of an M card.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Videodrome said:


> Yup seriously, i would have purchased an upgrade, if it had at least 3 tuners. This is just an upgraded 3 series. Its should be called 3.5, rather then 4 series.


You have no idea what you're talking about. Tuners are just peripherals.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

nrc said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about. Tuners are just peripherals.


Lists of things you cant do with a Tivo s4

1. Picture in picture.
2. Extenders ie Moxi , media center
3. Transfer at high speed over a lan
4. Record more then 2 shows.

The new tivo is useless. Waiting on Ceton, and low form case.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Mike-Mike said:


> why do you all have more than one Tivo in a room?


I have four TiVos in one room.

Although when I get my Premiere boxes I will only put two in that room and rely on the other TiVos on the numerous days that I'm recording more than four things concurrently.

Three tuners would be nowhere near enough. So whether the TiVo had two or three tuners I would still plan on putting two Premieres in that room.


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

That's a great point aaronwt, for some, no number of tuners is enough. This is why TiVo should let you leverage multiple units as one. While your solution works for you, many would bulk at the idea of managing recordings on that many DVRs, not to mention trying to remember where the shows are you want to watch.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bdraw said:


> That's a great point aaronwt, for some, no number of tuners is enough. This is why TiVo should let you leverage multiple units as one. While your solution works for you, many would bulk at the idea of managing recordings on that many DVRs, not to mention trying to remember where the shows are you want to watch.


I can always check the Now Playing List of any TiVo on my account from any of my other TiVos and initiate a transfer if I need to. The current TiVos have no problem transferring HD much faster than realtime so hopefully transferring between Premiere boxes speeds it up even more.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Wow! Those of you with 2 or more TiVos in a room, how the hell do you find the time to watch everything you record!?! I have a single TiVoHD and a Comcast DVR in my living room. If I hit a schedule overlap on the TiVo, I use the Comcast DVR. Having a Comcast DVR also gives me access to VOD. Between then, they fill up with recordings faster than I can watch them and I already spend too much time sitting in front of a TV! 

Personally, I'm going to upgrade my TiVoHD for a PremierXL. Two tuners on the TiVo is fine for me. I don't want to pay extra for more. I'm more interested in the improved platform, better software and the potential for new and interesting applications in the future.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TrueTurbo said:


> Wow! Those of you with 2 or more TiVos in a room, how the hell do you find the time to watch everything you record!?!


I don't -- I usually have a backlog.. though I have 'new' programming basically all year round. (Though with reality shows even more prevalent during the summer, there's a decent amount of stuff I want to record then too..)

But I still like all the tuners/ABILITY to record so many things at once.

One thing I do though is record shows from my Tivos to my non-Tivo recorder so I can watch them faster-than-realtime. (Or for some shows, like American Idol, I watch the actual performances at regular speed, and the REST at faster-than-realtime.)


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

mattack said:


> I don't -- I usually have a backlog.. though I have 'new' programming basically all year round. (Though with reality shows even more prevalent during the summer, there's a decent amount of stuff I want to record then too..)
> 
> But I still like all the tuners/ABILITY to record so many things at once.


That's where we differ then. There's nothing that important on TV that I MUST record. If I run out of tuners to record on, I let it go. There are many, many other things I can do other than spend even more time in front of the TV. Pretty much all series shows repeat anyway. What I miss, I'll eventually catch later.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> Wow! Those of you with 2 or more TiVos in a room, how the hell do you find the time to watch everything you record!?! I have a single TiVoHD and a Comcast DVR in my living room. If I hit a schedule overlap on the TiVo, I use the Comcast DVR. Having a Comcast DVR also gives me access to VOD. Between then, they fill up with recordings faster than I can watch them and I already spend too much time sitting in front of a TV!
> 
> Personally, I'm going to upgrade my TiVoHD for a PremierXL. Two tuners on the TiVo is fine for me. I don't want to pay extra for more. I'm more interested in the improved platform, better software and the potential for new and interesting applications in the future.


I don't watch everything I record and I never have or planned to. But I like to have alot of options when I sit down to watch TV since I don't know what I'll be in the mood to watch.


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I can always check the Now Playing List of any TiVo on my account from any of my other TiVos and initiate a transfer if I need to. The current TiVos have no problem transferring HD much faster than realtime so hopefully transferring between Premiere boxes speeds it up even more.


Right, but if you recorded one episode of Lost on one TiVo and another on the other, you won't get one Lost folder with two episodes in it. Two TiVos can share content, but they can't provide one unified experience.

Users don't want to be concerned with where content is and how many tuners they have. They just want to watch TV.


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## grit (Jan 1, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> That's where we differ then. There's nothing that important on TV that I MUST record. If I run out of tuners to record on, I let it go. There are many, many other things I can do other than spend even more time in front of the TV. Pretty much all series shows repeat anyway. What I miss, I'll eventually catch later.


And you are going to upgrade from a TivoHD to the Premiere? They are functionally identical with the exception of HD menus and 1080p24 pass-through.

On a general note to the Tivo guys - I get that you upgraded the hardware to make your lives easier. However, like others here, I have more than 1 Tivo because there are multiple family members who want to watch shows at competing time slots. Without 4 tuner support, not only would I not upgrade, but i'm also actively looking for an alternative to Tivo. I love my Tivo and how it works. However, it won't be cost efficient for me to keep two 160GB Tivo HDs when I could build a media center computer at get 4 tuners in that, plus add whatever size HDD i want.

I use the Amazon video feature, and for the most part, videos are far worse than a DVD on my HD television. This is because the video is sent to my Tivo in 4:3 format, but it's a letterbox movie. So I have to use Tivo's zoom to get it to fill up the screen, and the quality is no better than SD television. It's cheaper and easier to go find a Redbox a few blocks away with what I want on DVD (or bluray if I'm lucky) and get better quality than the ~$4 Amazon download.

So, please work on making all of your features HD friendly. Work on making streaming to and from your Tivo's seamless. Work on speeding up the interface. Work on improving the quality of downloadable HD content. Spending 2 years to develop a Tivo that is functionally no different from what currently exists isn't going to get you new customers nor will it help keep your current ones.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

grit said:


> And you are going to upgrade from a TivoHD to the Premiere? They are functionally identical with the exception of HD menus and 1080p24 pass-through.


Bigger hard drive, faster dual-core CPU, better chip set, better HD software, higher quality sound and video output (with the XL), new development platform for future applications. Of course I'm upgrading. If you can't see the value in a Premier XL when compared to a TiVo HD, you aren't looking hard enough.


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## grit (Jan 1, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> Bigger hard drive, faster dual-core CPU, better chip set, better HD software, higher quality sound and video output (with the XL), new development platform for future applications. Of course I'm upgrading. If you can't see the value in a Premier XL when compared to a TiVo HD, you aren't looking hard enough.


I'm not disagreeing that the components inside are newer and thus better than the TivoHD, but how is the end result better?

Bigger HDD : I already have an external HDD, but ok. Good point.
Faster CPU : translates to what exactly? doesnt improve playback
Newer chipset : translates to what exactly?
Better software : sure, the screens are HD and there are some changes, but it doesn't change what the Tivo can do, aside from what will probably be Hulu support one day. Yes, I get the faster cpu and chipset are necessary for this part. But in the end, all I'm really seeing here is the promise of Hulu one day.
Higher quality sound output??? Unless you are using analog, that's dependent entirely on your processor, amplifier, etc. If you are, you're losing out as the analog out section of the Tivo is very low quality.
Higher quality video output??? Uh, again, there's no change. Are you referring to HDMI 1.3? You let me know when ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, or anyone else starts broadcasting in 1080p, much less 32 or 36 bit color. Your argument here is like saying a Tivo HD improves the picture quality of SD cable broadcasts.

There's nothing I've read to indicate the Tivo Premiere does to improve the quality over the TivoHD nor does it offer you more recording options over the TivoHD.

If your argument is that you want to upgrade to a Tivo Premiere to future-proof for when those things come to pass, then ok. My argument is that, today, when you plug your new Tivo Premiere in and it replaces your Tivo HD, the user will get exactly ZERO improvement from what they had, aside from larger internal storage, HD menus, and a newer menu system. $300 is pretty steep for just those features.

Please don't mistake my argument for stating one should buy a TivoHD INSTEAD of a Tivo Premiere. I'd trade my TivoHDs across for Tivo Premieres, if it was free. But there's no way it's worth $300 per unit to upgrade.

Please research this for yourself. It doesn't hurt me one bit if you spend your $300 that way. Hell, you're putting money back into our economy. If you want to disagree just because, that's your right and I won't argue. And I'm not trying to screw Tivo. I like Tivo. I think they've slipped this time though.

At $12.99 per Tivo (ignoring multi-box discounts), that's around $300 a year for subscription fees alone. Creston is releasing a 4 tuner card I can put in a computer for $400 this month. And using a computer makes HDD capacity easy. I can get 1 TB of storage for $100. It's not very costly or difficult. I just think under these circumstances, Tivo should have tried to accomplish more with their hardware to stay competitive.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

grit said:


> Higher quality video output??? Uh, again, there's no change. Are you referring to HDMI 1.3? You let me know when ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, or anyone else starts broadcasting in 1080p, much less 32 or 36 bit color. Your argument here is like saying a Tivo HD improves the picture quality of SD cable broadcasts.


Actually, the new SoC does have better SD deinterlace and scaling than previous Broadcom chips like that in the TivoHD. The Premeire should improve the picture quality of SD broadcasts compared to the TivoHD and Series3. Whether the difference will be noticeable on most displays remains to be seen.



grit said:


> If your argument is that you want to upgrade to a Tivo Premiere to future-proof for when those things come to pass, then ok. My argument is that, today, when you plug your new Tivo Premiere in and it replaces your Tivo HD, the user will get exactly ZERO improvement from what they had, aside from larger internal storage, HD menus, and a newer menu system. $300 is pretty steep for just those features.


You are missing a number of usability improvements, some coming at release and unspecified others promised for the future. See the FAQ linked in my signature for some examples.

Let us also not mistake the Ceton $399 tuner for a DVR. It's not a DVR. It's a tuner card. It still requires the rest of a computer, including graphics, storage, and a license for Windows 7 Home Premium.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

grit said:


> Higher quality video output??? Uh, again, there's no change. Are you referring to HDMI 1.3? You let me know when ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, or anyone else starts broadcasting in 1080p, much less 32 or 36 bit color. Your argument here is like saying a Tivo HD improves the picture quality of SD cable broadcasts.


Pretty much all HD streaming services will be using 1080p in the next year or two. Just because broadcast networks don't take advantage of it, doesn't mean users will not reap the benefits of 1080p output.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

grit said:


> I'm not disagreeing that the components inside are newer and thus better than the TivoHD, but how is the end result better?
> 
> Bigger HDD : I already have an external HDD, but ok. Good point.
> Faster CPU : translates to what exactly? doesnt improve playback
> ...


The competition isn't a 4 tuner PC card. it's the cable company DVRs.

I can set up a multi tuner PC if I want to. i certainly had one for HD many years ago. But I want at least one stand alone box at every TV.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> I think if I had 12 tuners total with one centralized season pass list I would be happy.


how would there ever be 12 things on at once that you wanted to watch?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

as to why tivo didn't-

I thought someone posted a nice explanation of the vaious broadcom chip options some time ago.

If I recall you can't do more than 2 tuners if you want digital and analog cable and OTA all in one box (with a single chip). That's why in certain configurations the moxi needs a tuner dongle. 

So the hardware choices tivo has limit their options. 

they could make a box that is less flexible but allows 3 tuners- but they choose not to.

they could put a bunch more chips in and get flexible but way more expense- but they choose not to. 

Sure we could argue their choices but it's not like they are totally outlandish to try and make a reasonably priced box that records 2 of 'anything' at a time.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

grit said:


> If your argument is that you want to upgrade to a Tivo Premiere to future-proof for when those things come to pass, then ok. My argument is that, today, when you plug your new Tivo Premiere in and it replaces your Tivo HD, the user will get exactly ZERO improvement from what they had, aside from larger internal storage, HD menus, and a newer menu system. $300 is pretty steep for just those features.


This is such utter BS! Have you even bothered to watch the videos of the new TiVo UI in action!?! It offers WAY more functionality than the current classic interface and don't spout off rubbish about how the classic TiVo already has the new interface in the beta 'TiVo Search' application. That app is a fraction of what the new HD UI offers in total. The functionality of the new HD UI alone is more than enough reason to upgrade.

You can continue to wear your blinkers and spout off crap about how TiVo Series 4 offers 'zero' improvement, but those who actually bother to do the research and watch the videos know the truth.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

b_scott said:


> how would there ever be 12 things on at once that you wanted to watch?


It isn't necessarily about 12 things being on at the same time. A cable card can authorize up to 6 streams so since I am already renting a cable card per Tivo why not get 6 tuners per card. The other advantage with extra tuners is hard padding. You can pad every show since you will always have extra tuners allowing for overlap where you won't lose the beginning of another program like you do with soft padding.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

what is hard padding? or soft padding for that matter...... being a 30 year old noob sucks....


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Hard padding is where you set a show to always record say 5 minutes early and/or 5 minutes longer. With hard padding since the show runs say 7:55-9:05 then, any show that started at 9 won't record if there isn't a free tuner for it to start at 9:00 PM. 

Soft Padding is where you set the show the same way, but a higher priority show will take precedence. Say you set a show which runs 7:55-9:05 with padding and a show starts at 9:00. If the show that starts at 9 is a higher priority the first show will end up recording 7:55-9:00 so the other show can start recording on time. If the second show is a lower priority it will start at 9:05 instead of 9:00. 

As a result the more tuners you have the more you can pad all shows and still record 100&#37; of the program.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

thanks!


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## grit (Jan 1, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> This is such utter BS! Have you even bothered to watch the videos of the new TiVo UI in action!?! It offers WAY more functionality than the current classic interface and don't spout off rubbish about how the classic TiVo already has the new interface in the beta 'TiVo Search' application. That app is a fraction of what the new HD UI offers in total. The functionality of the new HD UI alone is more than enough reason to upgrade.
> 
> You can continue to wear your blinkers and spout off crap about how TiVo Series 4 offers 'zero' improvement, but those who actually bother to do the research and watch the videos know the truth.


Ok - exactly what difference will I see when switching from a TivoHD to a Tivo Premiere? Will the picture be better? Will the sound be better? Can I record more shows? Can I watch a program that's saved on Tivo #1 from Tivo #2 without having to copy it to Tivo #2? Can I have a unified recording list for two Tivos?

Aside from more internal storage and a different interface, what difference would I see??


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## grit (Jan 1, 2008)

MichaelK said:


> as to why tivo didn't-
> 
> I thought someone posted a nice explanation of the vaious broadcom chip options some time ago.
> 
> ...


That makes excellent sense. It doesn't work for me, but I'm only one person, and no company should base what they do off of one person's opinion.

So, why not make a box that HAS more tuners and charge more for it?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

grit said:


> Ok - exactly what difference will I see when switching from a TivoHD to a Tivo Premiere? Will the picture be better? Will the sound be better? Can I record more shows? Can I watch a program that's saved on Tivo #1 from Tivo #2 without having to copy it to Tivo #2? Can I have a unified recording list for two Tivos?
> 
> Aside from more internal storage and a different interface, what difference would I see??


Let me guess, you have a PC at home and you still run Windows 95 on it, right? After all, why should you upgrade to Windows 7 or even Windows XP. Windows 95 works just fine for you. What value is there in a newer, faster operating system!? Functionally, a PC is a PC, right?

For a lot of people, including me, the essential TiVo experience IS the UI! I don't need to record more than 2 shows at a time. I don't need to transfer shows between TiVo machines. I DO transfer shows to and from my PC and the new faster hardware in the Premier promises to make transfers complete faster than they do now. And yes, maybe the picture WILL be better. There's certain room for improvement with the TiVo HD. I use one of the latest Comcast DVRs as well as my TiVo HD and its HDMI picture is noticeably better than the TiVo HDMI picture.

The new functionality built into the new HD UI is what I want. It will let me research and choose programs I want to record in a way that simply isn't possible with the current UI. If all you care about is hardware functionality, stick with your TiVo HD. Maybe in a few months once you start to read about what can be achieved with the software on the new Premier machines, you might wake up and understand why it's worth getting.


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## grit (Jan 1, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> Let me guess, you have a PC at home and you still run Windows 95 on it, right? After all, why should you upgrade to Windows 7 or even Windows XP. Windows 95 works just fine for you. What value is there in a newer, faster operating system!? Functionally, a PC is a PC, right?
> 
> For a lot of people, including me, the essential TiVo experience IS the UI! I don't need to record more than 2 shows at a time. I don't need to transfer shows between TiVo machines. I DO transfer shows to and from my PC and the new faster hardware in the Premier promises to make transfers complete faster than they do now. And yes, maybe the picture WILL be better. There's certain room for improvement with the TiVo HD. I use one of the latest Comcast DVRs as well as my TiVo HD and its HDMI picture is noticeably better than the TiVo HDMI picture.
> 
> The new functionality built into the new HD UI is what I want. It will let me research and choose programs I want to record in a way that simply isn't possible with the current UI. If all you care about is hardware functionality, stick with your TiVo HD. Maybe in a few months once you start to read about what can be achieved with the software on the new Premier machines, you might wake up and understand why it's worth getting.


There's no reason for you to be caustic in your comments, such as telling me to "wake up". I think we can agree to disagree. Or that there are different things that are important to us. In your case, the search function and software upgrade are valuable and an important part of your television viewing experience. In my case, I am concerned with picture and sound quality, and the ability to have a more universal system. I doubt either of us are alone.

To answer your question - no. I'm running Windows 7 Professional on my desktop and Windows 7 Home on my laptop. And to offer you further insight (assuming your were curious and not just trying to be insulting) I update my BIOS within a few weeks of their release dates (just in case there are any problems, such as the recent nvidia driver update that caused some reported problems with fan speed). I put my own computer together. I have since the x8088 CPU days. I run my own serial interface firmware updates on my high end audio equipment. I installed the 10 gauge electrical wiring from my main breaker panel to my home audio system.

If the new Tivo interface was a software update, or a relatively inexpensive update (which I know is not practical given the hardware in the TivoHD), I would pay for it. My point is that, for some, a new search function and HD menus is a bit of a letdown for $300. If what you care about is watching the shows, not using the interface, then there is little difference.

EDIT - You know, I just went out to my TV and thought of something Tivo Premiere MAY have that Tivo HD doesn't - proper HDMI handshaking and signaling. Does anyone know if they fixed this?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

grit said:


> There's no reason for you to be caustic in your comments, such as telling me to "wake up". I think we can agree to disagree. Or that there are different things that are important to us.


Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't be so caustic, but you really rubbed me up the wrong way with your declaration that, quote: "the user will get exactly ZERO improvement from what they had"! This is such an infuriating statement since it only applies to you and your perceived values. There is plenty of value to be had for someone who doesn't just look at basic TiVo functionality.

As you said, let's agree to disagree. We clearly differ on the definition of 'value'.

Edit: Regarding your last edit about HDMI handshaking. I think I did read somewhere that the handshaking is improved. After all, the TiVo HD HDMI connection is 1.1 compliant whereas the Premier is 1.3 compliant. I have had problems with HDMI handshake on the TiVo HD. It can take a long time to complete the handshake and sometimes, I get the 'HDMI Not Allowed' message that forces me to restart the TV and sometimes, the TiVo!


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## grit (Jan 1, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't be so caustic, but you really rubbed me up the wrong way with your declaration that, quote: "the user will get exactly ZERO improvement from what they had"! This is such an infuriating statement since it only applies to you and your perceived values. There is plenty of value to be had for someone who doesn't just look at basic TiVo functionality.


You're right. It was a bit narrow of me. As you said, it's just not an improvement that *I* wanted to see. Apologies.

And thanks for the info on the handshaking. I'll keep my eye out for that to see what others says.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

LifeIsABeach said:


> I am guessing this one. TiVo doesn't make money on selling hardware. They make their money on selling subscriptions. Having a TiVo with 6 tuners does not make them any more money than having a TiVo with 2 tuners.


Bingo! If TiVo weren't in decline, they may have spent the extra money to really woo upgrades and new subscribers. But such costs are hard to justify when TiVo has been losing so many subs. Rogers has been trying to move TiVo into a software company, only, for some time and needs to finish the morphing ASAP!


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