# COMING BACK! Head of Tivo speaking at D6 hopes Tivo will be launched in the UK "soon"



## EdGillett (Dec 19, 2002)

Call me a hopeless optimist, but this sounds like progress to me ....

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/30/tivos-tom-rogers-speaks-of-whole-home-model/

Come back Tivo! COME BACK!!

(My non lifetime subbed, upgraded disk, Series 1 is disconnected and sat in a pile of pending eBay sales, together with the sad confirmation note from Tivo to acknowledge the cancellation of my direct debit. Just can't sell it ... yet ...)

http://d6.allthingsd.com/20080529/rogers/

"When is TiVo going to launch in U.K.? I'm hopeful that we can soon, Rogers says."

Believe it when we see it?

Perhaps they're waiting for software from Ahead for a PC launch? (makers of Nero, which have licensed the Tivo UI for PC use ... here's hoping it's less bloatware than the mega uber Nero Suite ...)

EDIT Sorry for the new thread - just noticed the "Questions for CEO" post lower down. I was excited and posted before I read up ...


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## gazter (Aug 1, 2001)

EdGillett said:


> Call me a hopeless optimist, but this sounds like progress to me ....
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/30/tivos-tom-rogers-speaks-of-whole-home-model/
> 
> ...


While it would be good to see Tivo relaunch, the closed sky cam system means that is unlikley to be anything other then a freeview model. 
They are so many models out there now which are hd based recorders, you and I know what makes Tivo different, but the consumer doesnt, and with Sky completely sewing up the hd market with sky+....


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

tbh, it was a very wooly answer. He couldn't really say never could he.

We all "hope" for things we know will never happen


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## comfysofa (Sep 24, 2002)

Well i gotta be honest i dont care. I read the article on engadget about 5 mins ago. I havent logged in here for months (i gotta be honest) house renovating, kids, job....my tivo has worked and still does, faultlessly, its about as far as i can take it, network, huge discs etc etc....but even though gazter has a fair point at the end of the day nothing works like a tivo when it comes to pvr's and ive seen a fair few eg dvd recorder epg's - ****e never seen one that is as intuitive as the tivo even sky+ which is not bad. This is the only bit of home entertainment kit that if i went and bought one without consulting the wife she wouldnt even bat an eyelid -she'd rather loose the washing machine than the tivo......cant wait. Even when it does come out, if im skint ill take it on the chin and stick it on the card....heh


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Perhaps Sky have changed their ways and will be permitting others to make products featuring a card slot for their encryption system....

Automan.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Automan said:


> Perhaps Sky have changed their ways and will be permitting others to make products featuring a card slot for their encryption system....
> 
> Automan.


Or maybe they will do what their former-sister satellite company in the US is strongly rumoured (images and specs have leaked already) to be doing, and release a dual tuner+CAM sealed box device that connects via USB2 to two LNB feeds and allows dual-tuner recording on a PC.

Like the US Cablecard integration into MCE - recordings remain DRMed to the hilt (keeping content providers happy), and the conditional access system remains a sealed unit (reducing the security risks of hacking). That said - a number of 3rd party CAMs can now emulate Videoguard and are fine decoding Sky SD and HD channels with a valid viewing card I am told. (I haven't done this myself)

AIUI DirecTV are waiting for Fiji (the next release of Media Center) to roll out - as until it does their tuner is limited in use without H264 support (which is currently absent in the TV functionality of Media Center)


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Automan said:


> Perhaps Sky have changed their ways and will be permitting others to make products featuring a card slot for their encryption system....
> 
> Automan.


I get a lousy signal when those darned pigs fly in front of the dish


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## Glen (May 9, 2004)

whats to stop the releasing a new model in the UK that hooks up the same as ours do now. you plug the sky box or whatever into the TiVo.

Fanastic news, but it will be a disappointment if it doesnt support sky.

Also, if they do return and only launch a freeview model, it is entirely possible that they may decide to terminate the current system as it too outdated and may not be able to handle the new technology going forward. If that were to happen, then i'd have to go dowm the Sky+ route, but only if i had to.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Glen said:


> whats to stop the releasing a new model in the UK that hooks up the same as ours do now. you plug the sky box or whatever into the TiVo..


Nothing, except it wouldn't really add anything as there would be no twin tuners, no enhanced picture quality, no HD...


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## Gavin (Jan 1, 2003)

gazter said:


> While it would be good to see Tivo relaunch, the closed sky cam system means that is unlikley to be anything other then a freeview model.
> They are so many models out there now which are hd based recorders, you and I know what makes Tivo different, but the consumer doesnt, and with Sky completely sewing up the hd market with sky+....


Why not a High Def HD based Freesat system, I'd certainly jump at that, they already have the experience with DirectTV, and a Combined Freesat / Freeview box would mean one box for the UK market, with options for both sets of digital users. Sky and cable is a lost market, they have PVR's freeview/freesat is where they could make inroads, Freesat even more so as there is no HD PVR on the market at the moment

Who knows that could be the HD box Humax are said to be releasing at the middle of the year.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Nothing, except it wouldn't really add anything as there would be no twin tuners, no enhanced picture quality, no HD...


Well TiVo have a US dual-tuner Series2 box that can record from 2 external sources at the same time.

They could have produced a dual-tuner version for the UK.

However the way forward is for High Definition.

If a dual or quad tuner high definition Freesat and Freeview compatible UK TiVo was released it would have less direct competitors.

Fingers crossed for a feint hope of a Humax TiVo Freesat HD PVR!


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

cyril said:


> Well TiVo have a US dual-tuner Series2 box that can record from 2 external sources at the same time.
> 
> They could have produced a dual-tuner version for the UK.
> 
> ...


Given that you'd want to use the freesat and/or Freeview Playback EPG sources - so you get proper start/stop triggers - what would the funding model be for Tivo? It could only be a premium for the UI experience? They couldn't get away with a subscription model when the EPG data is provided by the broadcasters.

I know Tivo have a richer metadata experience - though the Playback stuff has improved things quite a lot (split record, +1 channels intelligently used etc.) and the benefit of accurate recording start and stop triggers (like Sky+) triggered by broadcasters playout areas (BBC Freeview Playback recordings are pretty near spot-on these days) are significant issues.

If Tivo can integrate a decent DVB Freeview EPG (or the proprietary Freesat version) with their great UI that would be grand. (They may even be able to find a way of marrying their EPG with the broadcast one?)

I agree that external analogue recording in the UK is a dead market. Nobody wants to faff around with poor quality recordings made from external set top boxes - lossless DVB-T or S/S2 (and soon T2) recording has to be the way forward.

The Series 2 in the US serves a particular requirement of the US - analogue cable recording - which has never existed in the UK.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

A one box high def combined Freesat and Freeview PVR would be a completely unique item in the current market.

People would pay a premium for one box that does it all - no need to change boxes if you move to an area that has not got either Freesat or Freeview reception. In addition it would provide more channels than any other non-subscription device if you can receive both sources. Both sources could appear integrated into one EPG.

If they threw a blu-ray player in as well it would eliminate yet another box under the telly.

The EPG would have to be funded by on-demand movies or ads from Amazon, Apple/iTunes,Netflix, the BBC or anyone else willing to pay.


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## Gavin (Jan 1, 2003)

Sneals2000 said:


> The Series 2 in the US serves a particular requirement of the US - analogue cable recording - which has never existed in the UK.


It has but not in the same way.

US analog cable people can buy their own cable box rather than renting it. They had to be able to allow boxes to be added to the cableco's system. Tivo s2 can be integrated that way, to get the signal.

UK analog cable you used the rented box or got no cable TV, there was never the provision to use your own box. (or at least not legally!!)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cyril said:


> A one box high def combined Freesat and Freeview PVR would be a completely unique item in the current market.


But how much extra would such a box be worth if by year end 2008 all Freeview channels are also FTA on www.freesat.co.uk while www.freesat.co.uk also provides many more news, movie, entertainment and special interest channels that are not available on Freeview? We are already half way there with E4 and More 4 now being FTA and there being a special FTA version of C4 specifically for the Freesat EPG.

Although you say this would be handy for when people move homes in my experience set top boxes seem to be rendered redundant by the onwards march of technological development in broadcasting standards at a signifcantly greater frequency than that with which people change their homes.

In the long run Freeview is likely to be merely a subset of Freesat with significantly less HD channels available, rather than being a competing range of channels with what is on Freeview.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

cyril said:


> A one box high def combined Freesat and Freeview PVR would be a completely unique item in the current market.


Yep - though in continental Europe combined DVB-T and DVB-S (and S2 for HD) receivers are far more common than in the UK - where they are the province of modular receivers only really bought by enthusiasts.

A combined Freesat/Freeview PVR would be great - as it would give you the best quality SD (ITV1 is better quality on Freeview than freesat) and also HD.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Sneals2000 said:


> A combined Freesat/Freeview PVR would be great - as it would give you the best quality SD (ITV1 is better quality on Freeview than freesat) and also HD.


However with E4 and More4 now FTA on Freesat and Five, FIVER and Five US likely to follow within a few months that only leaves us with TMF, The Hits, Virgin One, Sky Three, Sky Sports News and a part UK time UK History and Dave as possible reasons for wanting such a combined device for FTA Freesatters. Sky Three and Sky Sports News will also disappear from Freeview if Sky get the go ahead for Picnic. Also Virgin One may well appear FTA on Freesat in due course (once it takes off) as may TMF, The Hits, UK History and UK Bright Ideas.

The extension of the Freeview Playback Series Linking, Wishlist and PDC like program start time synching using the same Metadata from the terrestrial broadcasters as on Freeview would be a natural way for Freesat to progress. Assuming this happens this further kills the chances of any likely successful re-entry in to the UK marketplace by Tivo.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> However with E4 and More4 now FTA on Freesat and Five, FIVER and Five US likely to follow within a few months that only leaves us with TMF, The Hits, Virgin One, Sky Three, Sky Sports News and a part UK time UK History and Dave as possible reasons for wanting such a combined device for FTA Freesatters.


Yep - though Freeview still offers better picture quality for some channels. Not sure about the FTA C4 DSat stream - but the FTV feeds, like ITV1 on DSat, are reduced res compared to Freeview. (Ofcom mandate full SD resolution for ITV1, C4 and Five on DTT - but not on DSat, hence C4 and ITV are reduced resolution on DSat - which is very noticable on a large screen TV)



> Sky Three and Sky Sports News will also disappear from Freeview if Sky get the go ahead for Picnic.


Yep - though I'm not sure I'll be holding my breath for that. I suspect any shift to H264 will now have to wait for HD and DVB-T2 - to avoid market confusion - and there are suggestions that Ofcom are not keen to dilute the FTA nature of Freeview, even by switching Sky services to encrypted MPEG2 SD (a la Setanta/TopUpTV) until the new generation of DVB-T2 H264 boxes appear.



> Also Virgin One may well appear FTA on Freesat in due course (once it takes off) as may TMF, The Hits, UK History and UK Bright Ideas.


Yep - though I guess that depends how much subscription info these channels get from Sky vs advertising revenue.



> The extension of the Freeview Playback Series Linking, Wishlist and PDC like program start time synching using the same Metadata from the terrestrial broadcasters as on Freeview would be a natural way for Freesat to progress. Assuming this happens this further kills the chances of any likely successful re-entry in to the UK marketplace by Tivo.


Yep - it is very annoying that freesat is using a proprietary EPG rather than an open EPG like Freeview Playback...


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

A combined multi tuner Freesat/Freeview HD Tivo with a single integrated guide would get my money in a heart beat. A Bluray disc player would be icing on the cake.

Freeview component is essential as not everyone has/can have/wants a dish. Freesat is essential to offer the explanded choice to those who have/can have/want a dish or can't get Freeview.

I would be persuaded to pay for the EPG <&#163;10 a month & I would certainly pay the same kind of launch price as Tivo back in the day at &#163;400-500. Fingers crossed that something will come of this and it doesn't turn out to be bluster and rumour.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

AMc said:


> I would be persuaded to pay for the EPG <£10 a month & I would certainly pay the same kind of launch price as Tivo back in the day at £400-500. Fingers crossed that something will come of this and it doesn't turn out to be bluster and rumour.


I can't see how a subscription EPG model can function for a freesat/Freeview PVR - there are too many out there that are subscription free. Sky+ is different as it is part of a subscription TV platform - where a consumer is already paying for the content - and effectively Sky+ is the only PVR option for new customers who want to easily record subscription satellite content.

Whilst those of us here know how good the Tivo UI is - but I think it would be difficult to persuade new customers that a monthly fee is worthwhile... All the other PVRs on the market are pay-once, use forever - whether Freeview Playback, the forthcoming freesat PVRs, Windows Media Center etc.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Sneals2000 said:


> Yep - it is very annoying that freesat is using a proprietary EPG rather than an open EPG like Freeview Playback...


Any insight as to whether the Freesat PVRs (when launched) will offer Series Link and Wishlist like features? Presumably it will have to in order to successfully act as a serious Sky+ and Freeview Playback alternative?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Sneals2000 said:


> Yep - though I guess that depends how much subscription info these channels get from Sky vs advertising revenue..


C4 seem to think that point has already been reached with E4 and More4 (unless their decision is a long term strategic move rather than being justified by hard economics). As Virgin hate Sky and their refusal to let them have Sky One at a sane price surely it makes sense to ensure their channel is also in the Freesat EPG.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Any insight as to whether the Freesat PVRs (when launched) will offer Series Link and Wishlist like features? Presumably it will have to in order to successfully act as a serious Sky+ and Freeview Playback alternative?


AIUI the freesat EPG offers the same functionality as Freeview Playback - with series record (including clash resolution using +1 channels), Split Record (so occasional shows interrupted by the news are recorded correctly), proper start and end triggering where supported by the broadcaster (BBC recordings on Freeview Playback are very reliable these days IME), and improved metadata for episode identification (to avoid duplicate recording)

I think that freesat have used a proprietary EPG to allow the use of listings compression - which allows a large EPG to be broadcast more efficiently - and possibly to allow other functionality that the DVB standard EPG spec as used by Freeview Playback can't? (Think the compression of the EPG is quite important - Sky also use a proprietary, but un-encrypted, compressed EPG system)

Not sure if pan-channel wishlisting is part of the core freesat spec - but it could be added by a manufacturer?


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## Gavin (Jan 1, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> As Virgin hate Sky and their refusal to let them have Sky One at a sane price surely it makes sense to ensure their channel is also in the Freesat EPG.


As someone who has VM cable and was annoyed at the loss of Sky one (it may be full of adverts but at least it had some decent shows) I would not give a rats bottom if Virgin1 channel vanished from the face of my STB. I suspect the only reason it's on Freeview / Freesat is it's utter bilge full of repeats or junk TV, I doubt any sane person would pay for it in any way shape or form. It was muttered when the virgin/sky spat kicked off that V1 would be the VM replacment for Sky one. (what happened to VM challenging Sky in court as the underdog fighting for TV viewers, I guess VM got the publicity they wanted then forgot to carry on, that was a good old NTL tactic). All it did for me was to cancel my VM TV package.

As an example let me list some of the shows.

Current Programming
Bullseye , Classic Who Wants to Be a Millionare? , Fear Factor UK , Gladiators (OLD SERIES NOT NEW), Hustle, Sexcetera, Star Trek (The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise), Takeshi's Castle, That '70s Show, The Cosby Show ,The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air ,The X Files, What Were You Thinking?, World's Most Shocking Police Videos

Coming soon
Brits Behind Bars, Bunny Boiler & Proud, Cradle Snatcher & Proud, Gold Digger & Proud (And more of the same), Happy Birthday Viagra, My Free Boobs


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## Glen (May 9, 2004)

i'm pleased that they show all the Star Treks as I am a major trekkie! i dont watch anything else though. Virgin1 could never rival Sky One, its just too good.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> C4 seem to think that point has already been reached with E4 and More4 (unless their decision is a long term strategic move rather than being justified by hard economics). As Virgin hate Sky and their refusal to let them have Sky One at a sane price surely it makes sense to ensure their channel is also in the Freesat EPG.


E4 and More4 get decent audiences (for a digital channel) and can be cross-sold with C4, so their ad revenue generating possibilities are good. Same cannot be said for most of the channels in the Sky paid packages.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> E4 and More4 get decent audiences (for a digital channel) and can be cross-sold with C4, so their ad revenue generating possibilities are good. Same cannot be said for most of the channels in the Sky paid packages.


So you are saying that unlike E4 and More4 British Eurosport would not have decent ad revenue generating possibilities if it went FTA? Not even when it also shows loads of football and football is one of the most popular sports on UK television?

On the other hand you imply that Wine Tv must have some excellent ad revenue generating potential as it is FTA, even though it only features a handful of old programs that it also broadcasts repeatedly?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> So you are saying that unlike E4 and More4 British Eurosport would not have decent ad revenue generating possibilities if it went FTA?


TCM's big enough to reply for himself, but that's not what he said.


> Wine Tv must have some excellent ad revenue generating potential as it is FTA


It must make some money, or what's the point?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> So you are saying that unlike E4 and More4 British Eurosport would not have decent ad revenue generating possibilities if it went FTA? Not even when it also shows loads of football and football is one of the most popular sports on UK television?
> 
> On the other hand you imply that Wine Tv must have some excellent ad revenue generating potential as it is FTA, even though it only features a handful of old programs that it also broadcasts repeatedly?


I've no idea about British Eurosport's finances, but I guess they've done the sums and the increase in ad revenue because of the extra viewers by being FTA must be less than they get from being part of the Sky package.

Edit: Looked up Eurosport's finances and they are clearly 100% around being a pay TV platform.

I've never watched WineTV, but I believe it sells its ads on a global basis.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

A FTA British Eurosport would seriously cut into their pay revenues. Nearly every country in Europe has a localised version, and most could cope with the British one rather than a pay one if it came to it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Edit: Looked up Eurosport's finances and they are clearly *100%* around being a pay TV platform.


What are all the advert breaks there for then? Are they provided purely for decoration?

Also how does their FTA German language version exist if what you say above is true.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

cyril said:


> Well TiVo have a US dual-tuner Series2 box that can record from 2 external sources at the same time...


Actually, it only records from ONE external source, a cable or satellite box.

The second recording can only be made off the TiVo's own internal cable tuner. (Can't even be set up to work with OverTheAir analog television, due to certain laws on the US conversion to digital.)

When local cable companies in the States go all-digital, the TiVo's analog cable tuner becomes useless, and the Dual Tuner machine becomes a single tuner machine, only able to record from a single set-top cable or satellite box.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> What are all the advert breaks there for then? Are they provided purely for decoration?
> 
> Also how does their FTA German language version exist if what you say above is true.


OK, 100% may have been a rhetorical exaggeration, but clearly the core of the Eurosport business is as a pay TV channel. That's its strategy. It's not an ad-led business.

Eurosport Germany is I guess is some kind of anachronism from German broadcasting history. It's even still broadcast in analogue! So far as I can tell Eurosport 2 and Eurosport HD are not FTA in Germany.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> OK, 100% may have been a rhetorical exaggeration, but clearly the core of the Eurosport business is as a pay TV channel. That's its strategy. It's not an ad-led business.


Yep - and Eurosport may not be buying FTA rights for the events they show, they seem to have rights to events shown on other FTA broadcast outlets, so their deals may be predicated on non-FTA viewing in some regions (like the UK?)

Eurosport used to be a strange off-shoot of the EBU - though not all EBU members were involved. Not sure if it still is... ISTR that TF1 had ownership of it (or a large chunk of it) at one time.



> Eurosport Germany is I guess is some kind of anachronism from German broadcasting history. It's even still broadcast in analogue! So far as I can tell Eurosport 2 and Eurosport HD are not FTA in Germany.


Yep - German analogue satellite is a real quirk of history. Analogue satellite launching as a consumer product co-incided with the re-unification of Germany, and analogue satellite became a very neat way of ensuring former East German citizens could easily watch West German TV. Millions (I don't think that is an exaggeration) of analogue set-ups were installed, and a lot are still in widespread use. For this reason analogue satellite continues (still at 19.2 AFAIK) - almost universally as a German service!


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

Sneals2000 said:


> Analogue satellite launching as a consumer product co-incided with the re-unification of Germany, and analogue satellite became a very neat way of ensuring former East German citizens could easily watch West German TV. Millions (I don't think that is an exaggeration) of analogue set-ups were installed, and a lot are still in widespread use. For this reason analogue satellite continues (still at 19.2 AFAIK) - almost universally as a German service!


And to drag this thread alllll the way off-topic, the movie Goodbye Lenin (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/) features this as one of its sub-plots.

Set up a wish list for it if you haven't seen the film. It's great!


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

terryeden said:


> And to drag this thread alllll the way off-topic, the movie Goodbye Lenin (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/) features this as one of its sub-plots.
> 
> Set up a wish list for it if you haven't seen the film. It's great!


I have it on DVD - it's great! If you enjoyed that - have you seen The Edukators?


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## The Bear (Sep 19, 2006)

Tivo integrated with Freesat and able to record HD broadcasts would be brilliant. I'd pay good money for that.

How would Tivo record HD though? Is it able to record at a high enough bitrate and resolution? I'd hate if they released something like the above, but HD broadcasts were downscaled.

EDIT - Just realised there is a TivoHD


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