# TiVo on Android TV?



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TiVo Heads To Android TV? - Zatz Not Funny!

Hmmm... what does this mean.


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## edwinyuen (Dec 30, 2010)

So it has the Google Assistant button and VOD but no back button?


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

edwinyuen said:


> So it has the Google Assistant button and VOD but no back button?


Given the placement and different look than my remote I think the turning arrow just below the directional pad might serve as one in the right content, possibly in addition to jumping back.


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## edwinyuen (Dec 30, 2010)

ashipkowski said:


> Given the placement and different look than my remote I think the turning arrow just below the directional pad might serve as one in the right content, possibly in addition to jumping back.


I had the same thought but the current Tivo remotes have both the back and turning arrow. Then again, I don't use Hydra so I wouldn't know if the context could be done with one button.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

This is neat and exciting!

No more clunky DVR boxes, maybe TiVo finally woke up and smelt the coffee!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Or Google Assistant on Tivo?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

No "(-)" button either. No OTA?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

With the VOD button, it seems likely it is like a MSO box (so probably only for cable companies). Perhaps there will be a consumer version too?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

No trick okay buttons. Heck no pause or play.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

FF or Rew? Must be on screen and arrow over left and right?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Weird, but I kinda get it. Could be MSO, could be both. The MSO version of the Vox remote says "VOD" instead of "SKIP", so that could change.

Wondering if the circle pad is contextual. Navigation when in the UI, basic trickplay when in a video.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

My guess is that this remote is almost certainly for use with the TiVo/Android TV-powered STB that TDS Telecom announced they would roll out several months back.

https://www.multichannel.com/news/tds-telecom-to-launch-tivo-next-gen-platform

And, yes, and speculated above, the circular pad will handle both directional movement in menus as well as playback/trick play controls. I think that's how the remote for the Nvidia Shield Android TV box works too.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mschnebly said:


> FF or Rew? Must be on screen and arrow over left and right?


Even Roku and Apple TV have pause and play. I don't like trick play on screen. Balky, slow and non-intuitive.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Even Roku and Apple TV have pause and play. I don't like trick play on screen. Balky, slow and non-intuitive.


Welcome to Android TV. Most Android TV devices like the Shield don't have a play/pause button or FF/RW buttons. It is all done with the arrow keys and ok button.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Welcome to Android TV. Most Android TV devices like the Shield don't have a play/pause button or FF/RW buttons. It is all done with the arrow keys and ok button.


The new directv now remote is going to have pause, play, ff, rewind and even a number keypad. That is android TV.

Someone has a brain and it isn't TiVo.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

NashGuy said:


> My guess is that this remote is almost certainly for use with the TiVo/Android TV-powered STB that TDS Telecom announced they would roll out several months back.
> 
> https://www.multichannel.com/news/tds-telecom-to-launch-tivo-next-gen-platform
> 
> And, yes, and speculated above, the circular pad will handle both directional movement in menus as well as playback/trick play controls. I think that's how the remote for the Nvidia Shield Android TV box works too.


The docs in the filing clearly point to TDS Telecom. There's a picture of the box as well.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

TonyD79 said:


> The new directv now remote is going to have pause, play, ff, rewind and even a number keypad. That is android TV.
> 
> Someone has a brain and it isn't TiVo.


That won't be for directv now though. It will be for directv over ip


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> The new directv now remote is going to have pause, play, ff, rewind and even a number keypad. That is android TV.
> 
> Someone has a brain and it isn't TiVo.


Yep. I have the new DirecTV NOW box and remote as well as a Stream+, both of which are Android TV and have transport buttons.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

compnurd said:


> That won't be for directv now though. It will be for directv over ip


I'm not so sure about that. I have the box and am beta testing a DirecTV NOW app on it. If it was meant for some new DirecTV IP service, wouldn't they be testing that app instead of DirecTV NOW?

In any case, even Roku, Fire TV and Apple TV remotes have transport buttons.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> The new directv now remote is going to have pause, play, ff, rewind and even a number keypad. That is android TV.
> 
> Someone has a brain and it isn't TiVo.


Android TV supports trick play commands so any manufacturer can add them. I use a Harmony remote on my Shield Android TV and it lets you use real trick play commands even though the original doesn't.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

mdavej said:


> I'm not so sure about that. I have the box and am beta testing a DirecTV NOW app on it. If it was meant for some new DirecTV IP service, wouldn't they be testing that app instead of DirecTV NOW?
> 
> In any case, even Roku, Fire TV and Apple TV remotes have transport buttons.


No. They have clearly stated what it is for. They want you testing the hardware


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

compnurd said:


> That won't be for directv now though. It will be for directv over ip


Incorrect. It is for directv now.

And what would that matter? It is android tv. Which was the original point. Directv is going in the right direction. They did mess up direct now apps on other devices with no channel numbers but they aren't going there in the future. And have supplied full remotes on an android box.

In other words, using their brains.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> My guess is that this remote is almost certainly for use with the TiVo/Android TV-powered STB that TDS Telecom announced they would roll out several months back.
> 
> https://www.multichannel.com/news/tds-telecom-to-launch-tivo-next-gen-platform
> 
> And, yes, and speculated above, the circular pad will handle both directional movement in menus as well as playback/trick play controls. I think that's how the remote for the Nvidia Shield Android TV box works too.


And this is more stupidity. Specialized remotes are dumb.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

TonyD79 said:


> Incorrect. It is for directv now.
> 
> And what would that matter? It is android tv. Which was the original point. Directv is going in the right direction. They did mess up direct now apps on other devices with no channel numbers but they aren't going there in the future. And have supplied full remotes on an android box.
> 
> In other words, using their brains.


DIRECTV NOW's Streaming Player is Likely Just a Beta Test For DIRECTV Streaming - Cord Cutters News


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Still pure speculation. I took the survey as well. Asking if you have DTVN service would be pointless since everybody would answer yes. It would be a monumental waste to test the wrong app to prove out the hardware. 

As long as we’re speculating, I think AT&T will ultimately have several tiers of just a single streaming product. IOW the three (DTVN, DTV and Watch) will probably merge.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> Even Roku and Apple TV have pause and play. I don't like trick play on screen. Balky, slow and non-intuitive.


You shouldn't assume that this TiVo Android TV box will rely on on-screen playback controls. My guess is that, when a video is playing, the D-pad will do the following:

center: tap to pause and again to resume playing
left: tap to jump back, hold down to rewind
right: tap to jump forward, hold to FF
up/down: tap to access additional on-screen controls (e.g. CC, etc.)

I *think* that's how the remote works on the Shield TV as well as the Nexus Player, which was Google's original reference device for Android TV. In addition to the D-pad, both of those devices' remotes do have a dedicated play/pause button too but I think pressing the center of their D-pads would do the same thing.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Still pure speculation.


There's actually a lot of quotes directly from AT&T's CEO over the past year indicating that they're planning to deploy a new DirecTV-branded OTT live TV service that comes with its own thin-client STB and will use the same back-end streaming platform that was rolled out for DTV Now earlier this year. It was originally supposed to publicly launch in late 2018 but now he's saying "late first quarter" of 2019. In remarks earlier this month, he said AT&T is trialing it in the market right now but he talks about that forthcoming service as though it will be something distinct from "our current product, DirecTV Now". So there's no doubt in my mind that the Android TV box that is currently being beta tested by DTV Now subscribers is the thin-client box that will be used with the new service slated to launch in about three months.

What this forthcoming service will look like isn't clear. Some comments from him seem to indicate that it will be similar to their full-scale flagship satellite service while others suggest it may not be quite as robust. At any rate, it will cost less than the satellite service thanks to lower customer acquisition/installation/hardware costs.

That said, maybe this box will also be sold or rented to DTV Now subscribers too? Who knows. It would obviously be technically possible, given that DTV Now subs are beta testing it. And it's also possible (even likely, IMO) that AT&T will eventually merge/eliminate some of these various live TV brands/services, although I don't know if that's in the offing for 2019. Everything seems to be in flux with their video strategy right now and it's kind of a mess...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

compnurd said:


> DIRECTV NOW's Streaming Player is Likely Just a Beta Test For DIRECTV Streaming - Cord Cutters News


What a stupid article. Of course they didn't ask direct now customers (the only ones who could test the boxes) if they have directv now. So, the whole speculation is built in that question and you take it as gospel?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> You shouldn't assume that this TiVo Android TV box will rely on on-screen playback controls. My guess is that, when a video is playing, the D-pad will do the following:
> 
> center: tap to pause and again to resume playing
> left: tap to jump back, hold down to rewind
> ...


I am not assuming anything. It does not have dedicated transport buttons. Combination arrow transport buttons are a horrible combination. I have used them on other devices and they are slow and inconsistent. It is bad remote design. Period.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> I am not assuming anything. It does not have dedicated transport buttons. Combination arrow transport buttons are a horrible combination. I have used them on other devices and they are slow and inconsistent. It is bad remote design. Period.


Nice attempt to move to goalposts. Before you said "I don't like trick play on screen" which clearly indicates an assumption on your part that this device uses such controls when, as I explained, there's no reason to believe that.

Now you're trying to redefine your comment to be about directional buttons that also double as dedicated transport control buttons during playback. That's something different than on-screen controls. Whether or not combined directional/playback buttons are "horrible" depends on the specific device/OS and how apps implement the controls. It's works great on Apple TV. I'm far less familiar with Android TV, which is an OS that allows OEMs some amount of leeway to design their own products. We'll have to see how it works on this particular device.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Nice attempt to move to goalposts. Before you said "I don't like trick play on screen" which clearly indicates an assumption on your part that this device uses such controls when, as I explained, there's no reason to believe that.
> 
> Now you're trying to redefine your comment to be about directional buttons that also double as dedicated transport control buttons during playback. That's something different than on-screen controls. Whether or not combined directional/playback buttons are "horrible" depends on the specific device/OS and how apps implement the controls. It's works great on Apple TV. I'm far less familiar with Android TV, which is an OS that allows OEMs some amount of leeway to design their own products. We'll have to see how it works on this particular device.


I can't dislike both? But I'm not assuming. Just commenting on what comes up. Someone suggested on screen so I commented on that.

I want dedicated transport buttons and numbers. Not dual purpose. Not on screen.

I have yet to see dual purpose buttons that haven't been horrible. Show me one that isn't to try to prove me wrong.

And, no it does not work "great" on Apple TV. They may have done better than most but it is not "great." I hate the Apple TV remote. Too small. Uses a touchy touch pad and uses functions that are not totally mapped to universals (which I did as I don't want to grab different remotes for every device.) But Apple TV does not dictate how each app works. That is up to the app writer, anyway.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

NashGuy said:


> There's actually a lot of quotes directly from AT&T's CEO over the past year indicating that they're planning to deploy a new DirecTV-branded OTT live TV service that comes with its own thin-client STB and will use the same back-end streaming platform that was rolled out for DTV Now earlier this year. It was originally supposed to publicly launch in late 2018 but now he's saying "late first quarter" of 2019. In remarks earlier this month, he said AT&T is trialing it in the market right now but he talks about that forthcoming service as though it will be something distinct from "our current product, DirecTV Now". So there's no doubt in my mind that the Android TV box that is currently being beta tested by DTV Now subscribers is the thin-client box that will be used with the new service slated to launch in about three months.
> 
> What this forthcoming service will look like isn't clear. Some comments from him seem to indicate that it will be similar to their full-scale flagship satellite service while others suggest it may not be quite as robust. At any rate, it will cost less than the satellite service thanks to lower customer acquisition/installation/hardware costs.
> 
> That said, maybe this box will also be sold or rented to DTV Now subscribers too? Who knows. It would obviously be technically possible, given that DTV Now subs are beta testing it. And it's also possible (even likely, IMO) that AT&T will eventually merge/eliminate some of these various live TV brands/services, although I don't know if that's in the offing for 2019. Everything seems to be in flux with their video strategy right now and it's kind of a mess...


If this replaces their satellite service that will leave cable as the most expensive service. For cable to compete they might have to go in the direction of having a cheaper tier of service via an app for other streaming boxes.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> I have yet to see dual purpose buttons that haven't been horrible. Show me one that isn't to try to prove me wrong.


Well, I already cited Apple TV, which, IMO, proves you wrong but a lot of folks don't like its touch pad (although its sensitivity issues are, I would say, a separate matter). The old iPod, with its touch-sensitive click/scroll wheel, would be another example of a device with dual-purpose buttons that worked well, although that's in the realm of audio, not video, players. I guess we just disagree about the Apple TV.

At any rate, if you're wanting a device that supports a wide range of streaming apps and has both dedicated directional buttons and separate dedicated playback control buttons that work uniformly across *every* app, there's nothing wrong with wanting that. I just don't know of any device that offers it.(Some may cite Fire TV but I'm fairly sure that the rewind button doesn't perform uniformly across Netflix, Hulu and other common apps.)


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> There's actually a lot of quotes directly from AT&T's CEO over the past year indicating that they're planning to deploy a new DirecTV-branded OTT live TV service that comes with its own thin-client STB and will use the same back-end streaming platform that was rolled out for DTV Now earlier this year. It was originally supposed to publicly launch in late 2018 but now he's saying "late first quarter" of 2019. In remarks earlier this month, he said AT&T is trialing it in the market right now but he talks about that forthcoming service as though it will be something distinct from "our current product, DirecTV Now". So there's no doubt in my mind that the Android TV box that is currently being beta tested by DTV Now subscribers is the thin-client box that will be used with the new service slated to launch in about three months.


I don't dispute that at all. I know their plan for this box to be used for such a streaming service to replace DirecTV satellite. I dispute the claim that this box won't run DTVN at all in the future.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

mdavej said:


> I don't dispute that at all. I know their plan for this box to be used for such a streaming service to replace DirecTV satellite. I dispute the claim that this box won't run DTVN at all in the future.


The thing here it isn't so much to replace satellite but to provide another option. Basically Sat will be there premium product. Directv over IP there mid high tier. Directv now there mid tier and ATT watch at the low endnote


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I don't dispute that at all. I know their plan for this box to be used for such a streaming service to replace DirecTV satellite. I dispute the claim that this box won't run DTVN at all in the future.


Yeah, it's possible. Although I don't think I recall any comments from AT&T leaders indicating that they plan to offer this box for use with DTV Now. We'll see.

From a marketing perspective, I think would be simpler to keep DTV Now as purely a BYO device service targeting cord-cutters while the forthcoming DTV-over-IP service is positioned more as a full-fledged alternative to cable and satellite that just happens to run over any broadband connection. But then AT&T is clearly not interested in a simple, easy-to-understand suite of video offerings!


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## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Any news on the Tivo Bluetooth Android TV remote? Just wondering... if the Tivo VOX remote is Bluetooth could that be paired with Android TV box?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Interesting... there is a SECOND Android TV TiVo remote. I wonder what that implies.


Also video of TiVo on Android TV.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

davezatz said:


> Interesting... there is a SECOND Android TV TiVo remote. I wonder what that implies.
> 
> 
> Also video of TiVo on Android TV.


It's no peanut.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

davezatz said:


> Interesting... there is a SECOND Android TV TiVo remote. I wonder what that implies.
> 
> 
> Also video of TiVo on Android TV.


My Google Discover feed just surfaced your blog's new post on this for me on my phone a few minutes ago, Dave. It knows I like to read your scoops, ha.

Kinda sad that the classic peanut-shaped remote appears to be biting the dust. Well, probably not for retail TiVos, just MSO-issued ones, and maybe only the next-gen Android TV ones at that...


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

My cable company still uses the peanut but I think the Skip button is replaced with OnDemand.

Service Electric Cablevision | TiVo


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dope video. Thanks to everybody involved in that. Nice to see it running well. I can only sigh and hope Tivo has the drive and wherewithal to do the legwork needed to extend this to their QAM/OTA platforms.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

davezatz said:


> Interesting... there is a SECOND Android TV TiVo remote. I wonder what that implies.
> 
> 
> Also video of TiVo on Android TV.


Nice video Dave. First thing I thought while watching the video was wow the NFL season is just around the corner! The next was the green replay icons next to many of the show titles on the guide. And last we got Spotify back! Just look at all the downloadable content.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

What does that green replay icon mean? When they played one of those shows it said FF was disabled, so I assume that is some sort of VOD service?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> What does that green replay icon mean? When they played one of those shows it said FF was disabled, so I assume that is some sort of VOD service?


Correct, MSOs can have a start-over/catch-up feature. I think Virgin goes back 7 days. Some go back 3.


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## owine (Dec 15, 2011)

For RCN it is a 72-hour start over feature.


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## owine (Dec 15, 2011)

davezatz said:


> Interesting... there is a SECOND Android TV TiVo remote. I wonder what that implies.
> 
> 
> Also video of TiVo on Android TV.


Yep, RCN demoed this remote when they showed us the product a few months ago. My install is slated for the week of 8/5.

Thanks for your video, nice to see some pub hitting for this new offering.

Part of the plus of RCN offering this is they are able to provide symmetrical gigabit fiber over existing Cat5e/Cat6 infrastructure in MDU properties at a lower cost than deploying DOCSIS equipment.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

owine said:


> Yep, RCN demoed this remote when they showed us the product a few months ago. My install is slated for the week of 8/5.
> 
> Thanks for your video, nice to see some pub hitting for this new offering.
> 
> Part of the plus of RCN offering this is they are able to provide symmetrical gigabit fiber over existing Cat5e/Cat6 infrastructure in MDU properties at a lower cost than deploying DOCSIS equipment.


owine, I've seen you post a bit about this in the RCN section over at DSL Reports. Isn't RCN's use of the TiVo Next-Gen IPTV platform (which is what Zatz's video above shows) only being used in MDUs? AFAIK, RCN is keeping with traditional QAM-based cable TV, using CableCARD TiVos, throughout their traditional single-family home footprint.


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## owine (Dec 15, 2011)

NashGuy said:


> owine, I've seen you post a bit about this in the RCN section over at DSL Reports. Isn't RCN's use of the TiVo Next-Gen IPTV platform (which is what Zatz's video above shows) only being used in MDUs? AFAIK, RCN is keeping with traditional QAM-based cable TV, using CableCARD TiVos, throughout their traditional single-family home footprint.


It was alluded that they want to migrate their SFH/mid-rise footprint to this platform at some point (Android TV is a component of Next-Gen, but it supports Linux-based STBs as well) to get rid of QAM video. That would obviously open up spectrum for better DOCSIS offerings. Sounded similar to Comcast's approach with a gradual migration by deploying current-gen equipment that is capable of supporting IPTV. I believe they have already begun migrating towards IP-based VOD in service of that goal.


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## jaselzer (Sep 10, 2018)

Ohhhh, I want to dump my Bolt and get this. Any chance this is what the Edge is?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jaselzer said:


> Ohhhh, I want to dump my Bolt and get this. Any chance this is what the Edge is?


That's my thought. That the Edge is going to be based on this same platform.

One bad thing though is that it appears that they might only offer 4 tuners max. Not sure if this is a limitation of the Android TV platform or a cost saving measure.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> My cable company still uses the peanut but I think the Skip button is replaced with OnDemand.


Link didn't work for me.

Anyhow, that weird on the buttons, in opening my remote the green "on demand" button cutout was actually under the faceplate, and worked when pressed.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Another provider is using Tivo on Android TV, this time an Arris box. (The specs are all the same.)

TDS picks Arris Android TV box for upcoming streaming TV service

The box: Arris VIP6102W

Wouldn't be mad if Edge is a modified QAM/ATSC version of this box's big brother, the vip6162wm.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Another provider is using Tivo on Android TV, this time an Arris box. (The specs are all the same.)
> 
> TDS picks Arris Android TV box for upcoming streaming TV service
> 
> ...


It's got a Broadcom SOC and looks like it's one of the ones compatible with TiVo's AndroidTV platform, so this very well could be the basis for the Edge.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> It's got a Broadcom SOC and looks like it's one of the ones compatible with TiVo's AndroidTV platform, so this very well could be the basis for the Edge.


Really interesting but I wonder if The Bolt roamio or minis ever see android tv


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

compnurd said:


> Really interesting but I wonder if The Bolt roamio or minis ever see android tv


That's a legit question. If Edge is Android, what breaks if anything? Does Android Hydra only see itself and Linux Hydra? But.... way speculative. Gotta find out what Edge even is, first.


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## jaselzer (Sep 10, 2018)

Seriously, a legit question. Does my mini become a black brick? I am definitely going to buy the Edge if it is an Android based unit with a TiVo interface even if it bricks my mini.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

If i had to guess i believe the Bolt and the Mini Vox CPU would be compatible with Android TV


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The Android TV devices actually run the Hydra UI on Android. If you watch the video you'll see the Google Play Store in the apps list. 

The Mini talks to the TiVo using an http protocol called mind/rpc so it should still work even if they switch the TiVo to Android TV. Only weird part might be if the TiVo has access to Android TV apps and the Mini is still stuck with the old HTML5 apps. It's possible the Mini VOX could be upgraded to Android TV, but I'm not sure if they'd do a major upgrade like that in the field.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> The Android TV devices actually run the Hydra UI on Android. If you watch the video you'll see the Google Play Store in the apps list.
> 
> The Mini talks to the TiVo using an http protocol called mind/rpc so it should still work even if they switch the TiVo to Android TV. Only weird part might be if the TiVo has access to Android TV apps and the Mini is still stuck with the old HTML5 apps. It's possible the Mini VOX could be upgraded to Android TV, but I'm not sure if they'd do a major upgrade like that in the field.


Yeah, I just can't imagine them doing such an upgrade in the field. For what? Some retail customers? Nah.

But even if the existing Mini can work with an Android TV TiVo for cable/OTA TV, one wonders if there might be a new model Android TV Mini that comes to retail (assuming that the TiVo Edge runs Android TV). Such a device would basically just be the same as the Edge, I guess, except minus the tuners and hard drive. Right?

But if they were going to make such a device, dang it, then why not just make the Edge itself a headless device containing just the tuners and the central DVR software (and maybe the hard drive too, although that could be added via USB 3.0)?


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> The Android TV devices actually run the Hydra UI on Android. If you watch the video you'll see the Google Play Store in the apps list.
> 
> The Mini talks to the TiVo using an http protocol called mind/rpc so it should still work even if they switch the TiVo to Android TV. Only weird part might be if the TiVo has access to Android TV apps and the Mini is still stuck with the old HTML5 apps. It's possible the Mini VOX could be upgraded to Android TV, but I'm not sure if they'd do a major upgrade like that in the field.


TiVO Mini is TiVo's client in their Whole Home DVR solution. The TiVO DVR (Bolt, Roamio, Premiere) is the server. Not having working clients makes a Android based TiVO DVR a non-starter. Of course for many reasons it is almost certain the TiVO Edge box will ship in September running Hydra 21.9.1.*.

As a longtime NY Jets fan I've learned to not get your hopes up as you will only be greatly disappointed. The TiVO Edge (and TiVO Bolt) will someday run TiVo's proprietary version of Android TV just not this year. TiVo has finally stabilized the Mira/Hydra code base so baby steps. I'm more curious about when TiVO will release the Series 7 Mini equivalent of the Edge.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

> One bad thing though is that it appears that they might only offer 4 tuners max. Not sure if this is a limitation of the Android TV platform or a cost saving measure.


Google has world class developers who aren't going to add artificial limitations especially with CableCard supporting 6 tuners. That being said TiVO will release a proprietary version of Android TV so they are not limited at all. If Android TV doesn't support CableCard TiVO will just use its own device drivers. If Android TV doesn't support XYZ TiVO will just write the code for it. The source code to Android TV is open source remember.









Customizing the Reference TV App | Android Open Source Project

Live TV is a reference TV app designed for Android television devices. However, device manufacturers may want to add more product-specific functions, which are not covered by the default implementation of Live TV, such as picture adjustment, game mode, or 3D mode. To support these device-specific functions or options, Live TV supports these customizations:

Enabling time-shifting mode, which allows users to pause, fast forward, and rewind. Configuring time-shifting mode to use external storage instead of internal storage.
Adding options to the TV options row.
Adding a custom row and adding options in it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, I just can't imagine them doing such an upgrade in the field. For what? Some retail customers? Nah.
> 
> But even if the existing Mini can work with an Android TV TiVo for cable/OTA TV, one wonders if there might be a new model Android TV Mini that comes to retail (assuming that the TiVo Edge runs Android TV). Such a device would basically just be the same as the Edge, I guess, except minus the tuners and hard drive. Right?
> 
> But if they were going to make such a device, dang it, then why not just make the Edge itself a headless device containing just the tuners and the central DVR software (and maybe the hard drive too, although that could be added via USB 3.0)?


I think the apps for Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and.... AndroidTV ...are ultimately intended to replace the Mini.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVO Mini is TiVo's client in their Whole Home DVR solution. The TiVO DVR (Bolt, Roamio, Premiere) is the server. Not having working clients makes a Android based TiVO DVR a non-starter. Of course for many reasons it is almost certain the TiVO Edge box will ship in September running Hydra 21.9.1.*.
> 
> As a longtime NY Jets fan I've learned to not get your hopes up as you will only be greatly disappointed. The TiVO Edge (and TiVO Bolt) will someday run TiVo's proprietary version of Android TV just not this year. TiVo has finally stabilized the Mira/Hydra code base so baby steps. I'm more curious about when TiVO will release the Series 7 Mini equivalent of the Edge.


Just to be clear TiVo running on AndroidTV is already a thing. Something they offer to MSOs since last December. So it's not a big stretch for this to transition to a retail product 9 months later. This may not be as pie in the sky as the Jets winning a Super Bowl.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> I think the apps for Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and.... AndroidTV ...are ultimately intended to replace the Mini.


Yeh but MSO's are going to need a client So there will most likely be something that could translate to retail


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

These are all IPTV devices, no? Or are there some that do QAM recording? I don't know how easy it is to port the QAM recording and Cablecard stuff to Android.



Dan203 said:


> Just to be clear TiVo running on AndroidTV is already a thing. Something they offer to MSOs since last December. So it's not a big stretch for this to transition to a retail product 9 months later. This may not be as pie in the sky as the Jets winning a Super Bowl.


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## Eldragun (Feb 3, 2016)

Does anyone know what Version of Android TV its running? 8.0 or 9.0?


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## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> The Android TV devices actually run the Hydra UI on Android. If you watch the video you'll see the Google Play Store in the apps list.
> 
> The Mini talks to the TiVo using an http protocol called mind/rpc so it should still work even if they switch the TiVo to Android TV. Only weird part might be if the TiVo has access to Android TV apps and the Mini is still stuck with the old HTML5 apps. It's possible the Mini VOX could be upgraded to Android TV, but I'm not sure if they'd do a major upgrade like that in the field.


I'd just be happy to see an app for Android TV that uses mind/rpc. No transcoding or 720p limitations. That's the only thing missing from my single device for everything dream using an Nvidia Shield TV.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

fyodor said:


> These are all IPTV devices, no? Or are there some that do QAM recording? I don't know how easy it is to port the QAM recording and Cablecard stuff to Android.


Both TiVO OS and Android are Linux OS based so no port is necessary. Low-level hardware/device driver stuff is all written in C or C++. What makes Android special is it was designed from day one (2003) to run on under powered cpu-wise low memory camera and mobile devices. For a development environment they choose Java the "Write once, run everywhere platform. Unlike C or C++, Java code can run on any device supporting a Java VM (Virtual Machine.). You no longer needed to "port" code!

To achieve this Android Inc, did he impossible of making Java perform on hardware other than expensive high powered servers (where Java is king.). Android wrote their own JVM for these under powered low memory devices and succeeded in achieving amazing performance. You no longer had to write code in C or C++ for each specific device then port to another device. They achieved what Sun Microsystems, inventors of Java, couldn't do and that caught the attention of Google who purchased Android.

Apple has done the same thing with iOS. Instead of Linux (UNIX) iOS is based on Mac OS X (UNIX) and utilizes the all new Swift programming language/runtime instead of Java.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lucidrenegade said:


> I'd just be happy to see an app for Android TV that uses mind/rpc. No transcoding or 720p limitations. That's the only thing missing from my single device for everything dream using an Nvidia Shield TV.


The problem with this is that most devices don't license the MPEG-2 codec, so historically they couldn't use it. That being said the patent expired last year so now they could technically use it for free. A lot of these devices also don't support interlaced video so when apps use it, like Kodi and VLC, they're deinterlacing in software which is not always predictable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

CloudAtlas said:


> Apple has done the same thing with iOS. Instead of Linux (UNIX) iOS is based on Mac OS X (UNIX) and utilizes the all new Swift programming language/runtime instead of Java.


Swift actually compiles to native code like C++, it's not a VM language like Java or C#.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

fyodor said:


> These are all IPTV devices, no? Or are there some that do QAM recording? I don't know how easy it is to port the QAM recording and Cablecard stuff to Android.


Yes. The current devices are designed for IPTV or cloud based DVR functionality. But I'm thinking that the last 10 months they've been working on QAM and ATSC integration.

But I could be wrong. Although I wonder what the point of coming out with yet another iteration of their existing DVR would be. The VOX platform is plenty fast enough for everyone so why would anyone bother upgrading if it was just a slightly faster version of the same thing?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Although I wonder what the point of coming out with yet another iteration of their existing DVR would be. The VOX platform is plenty fast enough for everyone so why would anyone bother upgrading if it was just a slightly faster version of the same thing?


At this point I don't know how they could release a box that isn't Android-based, if they want their product spin-off company to have any chance. A competent app platform is a basic cost of entry. I started out with the Edge news being skeptical, "because Tivo is Tivo", but now I just think they'd be completely crazy to stick with linux. I don't want to imagine them being that... well, stupid.

As long as compatibility could be kept, I don't think upgrading Bolts and 4K Minis is entirely out of the question, either. Wouldn't be as performant as the Android boxes in this thread, but not horrible. Knowing they want to monetize Hydra with VOD and apps, one would think that should involve more people than just a few tiny IPTV distributions.

I wanna hope.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm with you. I don’t think there is any point in releasing another, slightly faster, Bolt at this point. The only reason to release a new unit at all would be either...

1) A major platform shift to AndroidTV

2) A headless unit that used an app on other streaming platforms as it's main UI

Coming out with just another TiVo would be pointless and would likely flop.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

We can probably rule out #2 since there's an HDMI port and remote.

A potential #3 would be Arris streamlining production. Bolt motherboards still require their own unique fabrication. But that's a big 'ol ho-hum for everybody.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> We can probably rule out #2 since there's an HDMI port.
> 
> A potential #3 would be Arris streamlining production. Bolt motherboards still require their own unique fabrication. But that's a big 'ol ho-hum for everybody.


Yeah if it's #3 then it's going to flop as a retail product. What reason would anyone with a Bolt upgrade to a new box that's nothing but a slightly faster chip?


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I mean, I hope that you guys are right, but it took a decade to get HD menus, so I'm not optimistic. They're also then supporting a third platform (classic, Hydra, Android).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They're not really "supporting" classic any more. It's pretty much frozen and I don't expect any more updates.

Hydra is based on a modular system that was intended to be capable of being ported to other platforms. The whole point of the switch was so they could basically recompile the Mini version into apps that ran on 3rd party streaming devices, but it might also work for porting the main part of the TiVo system to AndroidTV. The big question is what do they do with the DVR functionality. They basically have two options...

1) Port all their current Linux code for their proprietary DVR functionality over to AndoridTV

2) Adopt the AndroidTVs built in DVR API

It really depends on how robust the internal API is whether #2 is really a viable option. I've looked at the basic DVR API calls in the docs and they appear to be pretty robust, but TiVo knows better than I do what their system needs to function properly. I also have no idea how much work it would be to port the TiVo DVR functionality over to Android. Android is technically Linux based, so it's possible it might not be that hard, but I know that TiVo's system is heavily reliant of their special filesystem and I'm not sure if that really fits into the AndroidTV system well. But who knows. Android is open source so TiVo could technically do whatever they want with it if they're willing to make custom modifications to the OS.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> I think the apps for Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and.... AndroidTV ...are ultimately intended to replace the Mini.


Yeah, I think that's right when it comes to the Next Gen TiVo IPTV Platform. Well, actually, on that platform, the operator would just have one model Android TV box running the TiVo UI. There's not a main box and a mini box -- they're all like the Mini in that they have no tuners and no hard drive. But the apps for Roku, Apple TV, etc. give the customer the option of using their own devices on secondary TVs (maybe even the primary TV) if they prefer.

I'm skeptical that TiVo aims to stop selling the existing Minis any time soon because they'll continue to be the best way to extend service from TiVo Bolts, Roamios, and Premieres to additional TVs. As for the Edge? We'll see...


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> They're not really "supporting" classic any more. It's pretty much frozen and I don't expect any more updates.
> 
> Hydra is based on a modular system that was intended to be capable of being ported to other platforms. The whole point of the switch was so they could basically recompile the Mini version into apps that ran on 3rd party streaming devices, but it might also work for porting the main part of the TiVo system to AndroidTV. The big question is what do they do with the DVR functionality. They basically have two options...
> 
> ...


You've researched this more than me, and I respect that, but from what I know about Android TV's built in support for DVR controls, as well as apps that hook into those controls, I am doubtful that it's robust/sophisticated enough to meet TiVo's standards. Remember, TiVo is the "original DVR" and their customers expect power-user controls. My gut tells me that they would have to go with option 1 above.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> You've researched this more than me, and I respect that, but from what I know about Android TV's built in support for DVR controls, as well as apps that hook into those controls, I am doubtful that it's robust/sophisticated enough to meet TiVo's standards. Remember, TiVo is the "original DVR" and their customers expect power-user controls. My gut tells me that they would have to go with option 1 above.


I suspect you're right. But since Android is technically Linux under the hood maybe that's not that hard. One thing I'm not sure about is how custom TiVo can get with the OS and still have access to the Google Play Store. I know that Google has certain requirements for custom Android builds when it comes to using the Play store. (at least as a default install on the device and not something side loaded by the user)


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Android's APIs are serviceable, but there's probably no way around porting a lot of stuff (conflict resolution, storage management, etc) if they want the experience to remain Tivo-esque.

Imagining all 20 years of linux customizing they've done is the daunting part. But maybe I'm overthinking it.

If they do move to Android, the nerd in me would like to see Todd Kulick or a project manager talk about that whole process, like they did with the Haxe port. This seems much more significant.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah if you consider all the special stuff TiVo does like scheduling, overlap protection, tuner sharing with Minis, skip mode, etc... it may not be feasible to use the built in AndroidTV APIs for the main DVR functionality. Obviously the UI part was a lot easier then the DVR part since the current product they offer only supports off-device DVR functionality. One potential solution to this problem would be to de-integrate the DVR from the UI. (which they may have already done) Basically you could package all the DVR functionality into an external library and then call it from the UI from a well defined API. Then it would essentially be the same as their MSO product just calling a DVR API instead of a IPTV or cloud DVR API. If they designed it correctly then these different "modules" could be interchangeable and the top layer UI part could be universal across all use cases.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> At this point I don't know how they could release a box that isn't Android-based, ...


The software/OS is completely independent of the hardware. The Bolt originally shipped with TE3 but now ships with TE4. There is very little question that someday TiVO Edge and Bolt (possibly Roamio) will run TiVO software based on Android TV. But releasing all new software on all new hardware before Christmas is nuts. We went down that road with Hydra on Mini VOX before Christmas in November 2017. It was a nightmare. You couldn't get Hydra to install on the Mini VOX! It would be over 6 months of emergency patches and endless RC releases before Hydra stabilized in April/May 2018. TE3 people have no idea.

The TiVO MSOs want hardware that can stay in the field a good 5 years. * Why would an MSO want to roll out Bolts today (almost year 2020) when the Bolt hardware was released in 2015?* So the TiVO platform gets a revision with a better SOC and more memory for the same price and everyone wins. Then next year the upgrade from TE4 to TE5/AndroidTV with it's superior app support begins. TE3 users will have no upgrade path as punishment.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Android isn't the software though, it's the underlying OS. That's why I'm skeptical that they will release it on older hardware. That's a pretty major change for TiVo to actually swap out the entire underlying OS. They didn't even upgrade the little startup "almost there" graphic on older units when they changed their logo because it's part of the critical OS boot system and they're afraid to touch that part.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Remember, TiVo is the "original DVR" and their customers expect power-user controls.


I disagree on a couple of levels. Being a TiVo customer (more on than off) since 2000 I would switch to a bare/decent OTA DVR streaming app. Only thing holding me back at this point is I already have a $199 Roamio (with LifeTime). Even now I would pay to switch if the image quality didn't suffer. I think the various Android TV DVR apps offer enough features and the bottom line is TiVo can't market themselves to their current (almost non existent) customer base rather they have to sell themselves to the potential market they have never reached. Which means various (existing) features might disappear obviously upsetting a few current customers however at the same time allowing them to offer a simple streamline solution that needs to compete with the Recast.

The fanciest DVR won't win... rather the cheapest and simplest.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Charles R said:


> I disagree on a couple of levels. Being a TiVo customer (more on than off) since 2000 I would switch to a bare/decent OTA DVR streaming app. Only thing holding me back at this point is I already have a $199 Roamio (with LifeTime). Even now I would pay to switch if the image quality didn't suffer. I think the various Android TV DVR apps offer enough features and the bottom line is TiVo can't market themselves to their current (almost non existent) customer base rather they have to sell themselves to the potential market they have never reached. Which means various (existing) features might disappear obviously upsetting a few current customers however at the same time allowing them to offer a simple streamline solution that needs to compete with the Recast.
> 
> The fanciest DVR won't win... rather the cheapest and simplest.


I never heard such Bull**** thinking in my life. I disagree as respectfully as I can, but get off it, really.

TiVo is in the toilet because it tried to be something its not, the DVR for the financially challenged. It is a TiVo because of its qualities of choice and convenience and yes, sometimes you have to pay a little more to get it. If TiVo continues to introduce weak hardware and toothless features with the new Series 7 release, they will be extinct very soon after. The new competition is starting to eat their lunch. TiVo no longer has the time to make the same mistakes twice and survive. Rather, they must learn from their mistakes and return to the quality of product that made them in the first place or they will die.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Seems like an Android TV mini would be a good upgrade option for existing Tivo users.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> Android isn't the software though, it's the underlying OS. That's why I'm skeptical that they will release it on older hardware. That's a pretty major change for TiVo to actually swap out the entire underlying OS. They didn't even upgrade the little startup "almost there" graphic on older units when they changed their logo because it's part of the critical OS boot system and they're afraid to touch that part.


TiVO doesn't have a choice the MSOs would demand supporting older Bolt hardware in the field. So you are probably right that Roamio will not be supported just as TE4 never supported a Premiere.

For a DEAD product things are definitely getting interesting.  Luckily we will soon have the answers to our question starting in about a month.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I wonder what the beta testers think of this conversation. They're probably in the beta forum laughing at how wrong we are. I've done it in previous betas.  Unfortunately I wasn't invited to this one so I'm in the dark on what's happening here.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

One thought I had about using the AndroidTV API for DVR functionality.... I wonder if it's open to apps? Like if a 3rd party app, say like YouTube TV, used the Android TV DVR API to "record" would those recording show up in the TiVo UI? Could be a neat way for TiVo to integrate with OTT services without needing special partnerships. 

I have no idea from my limited reading of the API docs if this is actually possible or not. But it sure would be cool if it were.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Another thought I had.... the fact that TiVo's current AndroidTV product only runs on a few devices with specific Broadcom SOCs seems to indicate there is at least some special built C++ code in the mix. That makes me lean back toward them using their own DVR engine for this.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Joe3 said:


> The new competition is starting to eat their lunch.
> 
> Rather, they must learn from their mistakes and return to the quality of product that made them in the first place or they will die.


This doesn't make sense. Arguably (past) TiVos had the most advanced features (per se) and it got them nowhere... What competition has more/better features than TiVo today? None that I'm aware of certainly not overall bypassing pricing or cherry picking x feature(s). So if they are killing TiVo it only proves features aren't selling the market.

Some "advance" feature won't cure all ills rather they need to target a market that makes them sustainable... which means a cheap and simple solution integrated into a growing platform.



Joe3 said:


> TiVo is in the toilet because it tried to be something its not, the DVR for the financially challenged.


I think the opposite is true. They only became (to some degree) price sensitive when it was proven they couldn't exist any other way. Although hardware wise I think is relatively irrelevant. It's more platform and software integration that has to become mainstream to be viable in the market. Which forces one to mold the experience going forward.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Charles R said:


> This doesn't make sense. Arguably (past) TiVos had the most advanced features (per se) and it got them nowhere... What competition has more/better features than TiVo today? None that I'm aware of certainly not overall bypassing pricing or cherry picking x feature(s). So if they are killing TiVo it only proves features aren't selling the market.
> 
> Some "advance" feature won't cure all ills rather they need to target a market that makes them sustainable... which means a cheap and simple solution integrated into a growing platform.
> 
> I think the opposite is true. They only became (to some degree) price sensitive when it was proven they couldn't exist any other way. Although hardware wise I think is relatively irrelevant. It's more platform and software integration that has to become mainstream to be viable in the market. Which forces one to mold the experience going forward.


Ignore Him Troll


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Another thought I had.... the fact that TiVo's current AndroidTV product only runs on a few devices with specific Broadcom SOCs seems to indicate there is at least some special built C++ code in the mix. That makes me lean back toward them using their own DVR engine for this.


I wouldnt be surprised, if when this launches we see this Android TV Version Port to the Roamio Bolt and the Mini/Mini Vox. We saw them leave the Premiere out when they went to Hydra. I do question the regular Mini though. Alot of cable Companies have deployed the MG1 with Hydra now and the Qi3 Client(regular mini) Mine started using the MG2 also for 4K customers. That hardware is a large investment over the last 1-3 years for some of these MSO's. I would heavily assume when the MG3(Edge) hits the MSO's and soon includes the android tv it is going to have to be somewhat back deployable. No MSO is going to upgrade all hardware just to start supporting the new Arris Hardware. If i recall they changed relatively easy on the backend the old flash UI to HTML5 which we have now. I dont see any issue with a update being downloaded that changes it to Android in the back


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

compnurd said:


> Ignore Him


I do.  Just quoted a couple users to frame my thoughts...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

compnurd said:


> I wouldnt be surprised, if when this launches we see this Android TV Version Port to the Roamio Bolt and the Mini/Mini Vox. We saw them leave the Premiere out when they went to Hydra. I do question the regular Mini though. Alot of cable Companies have deployed the MG1 with Hydra now and the Qi3 Client(regular mini) Mine started using the MG2 also for 4K customers. That hardware is a large investment over the last 1-3 years for some of these MSO's. I would heavily assume when the MG3(Edge) hits the MSO's and soon includes the android tv it is going to have to be somewhat back deployable. No MSO is going to upgrade all hardware just to start supporting the new Arris Hardware. If i recall they changed relatively easy on the backend the old flash UI to HTML5 which we have now. I dont see any issue with a update being downloaded that changes it to Android in the back


They might be more willing to do a major update like this on an MSO box because if it fails the MSO can just swap it out for the user. On retail devices that would be much more costly and very bad PR.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> They might be more willing to do a major update like this on an MSO box because if it fails the MSO can just swap it out for the user. On retail devices that would be much more costly and very bad PR.


I dont really see it being an issue. I mean the Hydra update was large enough that going back causes you to lose recordings. Or who knows.. Maybe Edge devices with Android TV integrate fully with the Hydra OS and it is somewhat seemless with the exception of the "new" boxes have more app selection


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

compnurd said:


> I dont really see it being an issue. I mean the Hydra update was large enough that going back causes you to lose recordings. Or who knows.. Maybe Edge devices with Android TV integrate fully with the Hydra OS and it is somewhat seemless with the exception of the "new" boxes have more app selection


They have a special system for upgrades on TiVo. They basically have two partitions. One holds the new update and one holds the software from before the update. If the update fails for any reason it just reverts back to the old partition and your box still boots. But this is OS level functionality. So if they actually upgraded the OS in the field I think they'd have to bypass this safety mechanism. (unless they can figure out some way to bootstrap Android from the original Linux OS)

As for losing recordings when reverting to TE3... I don't think that's actually necessary. I think they do that as a deterrent. They want people to use the new UI and they don't want people flopping back to the old UI without giving the new one a chance just because it's what they're comfortable with. So they add the recording delete step as a way to ensure that people are really, really, serious about reverting.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

compnurd said:


> Ignore Him Troll


I am, there is always that one.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> They have a special system for upgrades on TiVo. They basically have two partitions. One holds the new update and one holds the software from before the update. If the update fails for any reason it just reverts back to the old partition and your box still boots. But this is OS level functionality. So if they actually upgraded the OS in the field I think they'd have to bypass this safety mechanism. (unless they can figure out some way to bootstrap Android from the original Linux OS)
> 
> As for losing recordings when reverting to TE3... I don't think that's actually necessary. I think they do that as a deterrent. They want people to use the new UI and they don't want people flopping back to the old UI without giving the new one a chance just because it's what they're comfortable with. So they add the recording delete step as a way to ensure that people are really, really, serious about reverting.


Hmm OK I thought the recording loss was due to a database change. I could be wrong but i thought Ted confirmed that.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

compnurd said:


> I wouldnt be surprised, if when this launches we see this Android TV Version Port to the Roamio Bolt and the Mini/Mini Vox.


Definitely no Android on the Roamio or v1/v2 Minis and equivalents. Hardware is inadequate. (requires dual core CPU, 2 GB RAM).

In general (Bolt/ 4k Mini upgrading), I dunno, I guess I figured they could do it because they're theoretically capable of running it. I'd assume they would want it deployed to as many homes as possible to spread out the cost. But maybe it is too risky.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Definitely no Android on the Roamio or v1/v2 Minis and equivalents. Hardware is inadequate. (requires dual core CPU, 2 GB RAM).
> 
> In general (Bolt/ 4k Mini upgrading), I dunno, I guess I figured they could do it because they're theoretically capable of running it. I'd assume they would want it deployed to as many homes as possible to spread out the cost. But maybe it is too risky.


Makes sense on the first. But retail I am sure retail the least of there concerns on deployment. It is all MSO. Retail is just a by product If the Bolt (MG2) has the hardware then it will see it. I am leaning more towards this software will just coexist with each other until MSO's upgrade there hardware


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## owine (Dec 15, 2011)

Cross posting this from DSLR with some initial impressions on the TiVo for Android TV product so far.

Some updates so far. This is based on what I've been able to utilize in the common areas and talking to a couple of neighbors. As luck would have it, my Cat5 line from the unit to the telco room is damaged and requires replacement so I have been unable to have my installation done yet.


Interestingly, the guide/lineup is all-HD. That is to say that all channels are listed by their "regular" channel number as opposed to the HD channel number on a lineup card. It was noted that "ALL channels are high definition (HD)--unless broadcasted exclusively in standard definition (SD)" which I don't know exactly how to translate at this point in time. I'm not familiar enough with the RCN lineup to know if certain channels were not being delivered in HD previously due to capacity.
Full slate of Google Play apps for Android TV appear to be available
The TiVo platform on Android TV looks nearly identical to the TE4 found on other boxes. The interface seems responsive enough, although some owners are reporting issues with the box freezing up between shows (supposedly known by RCN and being looked into). The TV unit in the gym I used had a 7/14 software build date.
Stream quality appears to be better than what we had with U-verse and appears to be somewhat adaptive as some streams started with poor quality before improving (as you would experience with some other streaming video). I'm not sure of the exact bitrate or codec being used.
Many owners are reporting troubles with the remote, specifically with returning the box from sleep mode and controlling the TV itself. No idea if this is just a RTFM issue or something to be fixed.
It does not look like this supports IP Control as other TiVo units do. This is somewhat disappointing and I hope will be added fairly quickly. I use a software-based universal remote and IP Control is by far the best method for controlling AV devices (especially when it can provide two-way feedback).

Also looks like a mini site is up specifically for the Chicago market with additional detail. »www.rcn.com/chicago/iptv/


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

owine said:


> Cross posting this from DSLR with some initial impressions on the TiVo for Android TV product so far.
> 
> Some updates so far. This is based on what I've been able to utilize in the common areas and talking to a couple of neighbors. As luck would have it, my Cat5 line from the unit to the telco room is damaged and requires replacement so I have been unable to have my installation done yet.
> 
> ...


this is all cable operator based most likely will be different on retail


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