# TCF store



## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

Is this brand new, or have I just failed to notice it before now?
http://store.tivocommunity.com/


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## matt11 (Aug 13, 2006)

Brand new, I guess that was the "Something new is about to open."


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## wscannell (Dec 7, 2003)

All the ads at the top of the site changed from their traditional ads to ads for the store, including the one with balloons falling that states grand opening.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

I noticed this today also, whats the benefit from buying at the TCF store? I checked it out and I don't recognize any GOOD deals...

edit: I see they have already upgraded tivos, which is good...I'll have to compare the price with others


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Test said:


> I noticed this today also, whats the benefit from buying at the TCF store?


It helps this community/site


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I could be wrong but i think the prices are still in flux. 

For example the hamrony 880 now has a lower price than ANYONE on shopper.com.

I could have swore i looked friday and the price was 25 bucks higher then.

(I was one of the lucky winners to guess the new thing was a store. I checked the price when I found out I won the 880 and was way exicted to win such an expensive item- then I checked today to show the wife what i won and it wasn't so exiciing now that the price is more reasonable- LOL)


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I'd guess there would be a thread someplace if it was a sale- so i think they are still tweaking pricing?


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## Store Admin (Sep 25, 2006)

Yes we have been tweaking prices. 

(More to come.)


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Now that there's an official store, will the mods have issues with threads discussing Weaknees or other places to buy hard drives, TiVos, or other stuff that the store also sells?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Store Admin said:


> Yes we have been tweaking prices.
> 
> (More to come.)


Bring it on!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

The Tivo branded wireless adapter is only $42 now. Thats a very good deal. I think earlier it was listed in the $60s.


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

rainwater said:


> The Tivo branded wireless adapter is only $42 now. Thats a very good deal. I think earlier it was listed in the $60s.


I saw it at $54.95 on the day the store launched, and that was $5 below TiVo's price ($59.99). Now at $42.95, it's $17 below TiVo's price.

I'm pretty sure that the TC Store also dropped their price on the Shure E3c earphones by $50. But I might be misremembering.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I love how the image representing the remote controls category:










is that for the Sony SAT-T60 and not sold in the store.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

rainwater said:


> The Tivo branded wireless adapter is only $42 now. Thats a very good deal. I think earlier it was listed in the $60s.


Well, that's too bad. I recently ordered two for $45 each from Amazon and got free 2-day shipping with a free trial of Amazon Prime. That's $90 (or $84) that would have been nice to go to the TCF Store.

My rec to David B and the others running the store.....make sure you don't price yourself out of items. We would all love to support the store in any way we can, but in today's world I think people are very price sensitive.

Of course, if everyone were, then the S3 would not be purchased by the early adopters at $799.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

stevel said:


> I love how the image representing the remote controls category:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


is funny!

on pricing-
to be honest at first when everything went up at like retail (or at least high end of street prices) i was bummed. I'd like to help out TC and buy here but not if it meant totally getting ripped off. I'd even pay a little more than the going rate to help the joint but those inital prices were ugly and beyond that point. With the 880 as cheap as they have it- If I like the one that I won, I might buy a second for the bedroom!


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

To bad it means tcf clamping down on price talk, Don't you just love how the free market works, but I guess it's not so free if people can't mentioned non tcf sponsor prices. Please note I'm not a seller of anything. I'm just a long time member who isn't happy about what's starting to develop. I also don't see myself buying from a store that makes it's money off a community by selling series3 units, but deletes threads regarding series 3 pricing.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

avs forum has been nuking threads about pricing for years and there is no store there. It's just a policy they had for whatever reason. Sometimes there were scummy vendors. For example jsut recently someone posted a thread about discounted S3 pricing on goolge checkout. Then later in the thread the store owner popped in to answer some quesitons. Turns out if was the same IP posting both. I could see how if that were widespread it would be an issue.

Seems things were much more lax here over the years but I guess the parties over now.

THe site owners posted in another thread (that seems to have gone bye bye) that they are sorry if it offends folks but free speach isn't garaunteed here. They said that the old paradign sellign adds didn't cover the bills (only like 3 vendors regularly bought ads) so they had to do something. 

I dont like it but I can see where they are coming from.

Looks like pricing talk should move to the place where the hacking talk is. After all that place is a board for yenta coupon talk to begin with- seems to fit....


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Now that there's an official store, will the mods have issues with threads discussing Weaknees or other places to buy hard drives, TiVos, or other stuff that the store also sells?


Probably.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Now that there's an official store, will the mods have issues with threads discussing Weaknees or other places to buy hard drives, TiVos, or other stuff that the store also sells?


my guess is the upgraded S3s being sold are coming from weakness in some sort of deal. So instead of ad revenue it is now direct sales revenue being split in some manner. I wish both continued revenuesas they bring me more of that TiVo goodness news and hardware possibilities :up:

too bad about loosing the ability to talk deals and prices but then I doubt linksys would host a forum talking about the latest netgear deals


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> my guess is the upgraded S3s being sold are coming from weakness in some sort of deal. So instead of ad revenue it is now direct sales revenue being split in some manner. I wish both continued revenuesas they bring me more of that TiVo goodness news and hardware possibilities :up:
> 
> too bad about loosing the ability to talk deals and prices but then I doubt linksys would host a forum talking about the latest netgear deals


So if I start a thread saying where you can get the best price for series III TiVo, the owner of the site will close it down?  I think that is a disgusting practice to be in. If they can't compete on price then DON'T OFFER THE ITEM!!! There are so many items in Happy Hour that are being discuss daily including price. If the TC store starts selling those items will that mean all those threads will have to be closed?


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

It would be nice if there were a description of the store's shipping prices and policies. (If there is one, I can't find it.) 

I live in Alaska and many online retailers require expensive overnight shipping, add undocumented shipping costs, or entirely refuse to ship here. This frequently influences my choice of where to shop. It is a major pet peeve of mine when you can't figure this out before you enter your credit card and shipping information. Every customer should have access to this information so that they can calculate their total costs when deciding to place an order and before having to provide personal information.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> So if I start a thread saying where you can get the best price for series III TiVo, the owner of the site will close it down?  I think that is a disgusting practice to be in.


Thats exactly what would happen and what is currently happening. I wish the TCF store the best of luck. But it stinks that we can no longer talk about good deals out there on the net. I posted a good deal on a s3 a few days ago and it was deleted by David.


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

BlackBetty said:


> Thats exactly what would happen and what is currently happening. I wish the TCF store the best of luck. But it stinks that we can no longer talk about good deals out there on the net. I posted a good deal on a s3 a few days ago and it was deleted by David.


Not cool ....... :down: :down: :down:


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ufo4sale said:


> So if I start a thread saying where you can get the best price for series III TiVo, the owner of the site will close it down?  I think that is a disgusting practice to be in. If they can't compete on price then DON'T OFFER THE ITEM!!! There are so many items in Happy Hour that are being discuss daily including price. If the TC store starts selling those items will that mean all those threads will have to be closed?


I agree it's not the best situation - but when you put up the time to run the place & the money to buy the servers and the bandwidth then you can make your own rules.

Thje owners posted in another thread that they tried over the YEARS to break even by selling ads. Only 3 or 4 vendors every routinely bought the ads so the place never really covered it's costs. At one point it was so bad that tivo even had to throw them some change to buy new hardware to keep the place running.

I wish they decide to compete on price- and it looks like from the quick drops that they are trying to do just that. Hopefully once they get going and are making it work then they can be less uptight about posting about the competition. I suspect they will lighten up over time- the other forums that I frequent that have sotres (treocentral as an example) doesn't freak if you post good deals becasue they have enough of their own that people buy from them as well.

I dont like it, but i see why they do it, and I wish them luck in their endeavor.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

BlackBetty said:


> Thats exactly what would happen and what is currently happening. I wish the TCF store the best of luck. But it stinks that we can no longer talk about good deals out there on the net. I posted a good deal on a s3 a few days ago and it was deleted by David.


That gets an automatice prohibition of using the TCF store from me.
I'll hear about any earth shattering deals on Fatwallet anyway.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Concur completely with MichaelK - there was a great thread over in the S3 forum that was going to be the "Where can we get the best deal on an S3" thread. Sounded like the perfect use of a community website. A short discussion like this one ensued until it was locked and deleted. I think that I would have been a lot more understanding of David's plight and reasons for now allowing such talk if he had allowed that discussion to run its course. :down: :down: :down:

That being said, if the TCF store is going to offer competitive prices, I may consider going to them for anything that I may need. (still sitting on the fence on whether or not I want to vote for their business practices with my wallet)



> I dont like it, but i see why they do it, and I wish them luck in their endeavor.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

JustAllie said:


> I saw it at $54.95 on the day the store launched, and that was $5 below TiVo's price ($59.99). Now at $42.95, it's $17 below TiVo's price.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the TC Store also dropped their price on the Shure E3c earphones by $50. But I might be misremembering.


Are you sure? When I go into the TCF store and select the adapter it still says....

Price: $59.00
Retail Price: 
Savings: ($42.95)

I add to cart and it is $59.00


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## weaknees (May 11, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> my guess is the upgraded S3s being sold are coming from weakness in some sort of deal. So instead of ad revenue it is now direct sales revenue being split in some manner. I wish both continued revenuesas they bring me more of that TiVo goodness news and hardware possibilities :up:
> 
> too bad about loosing the ability to talk deals and prices but then I doubt linksys would host a forum talking about the latest netgear deals


Just to be clear, we are NOT a supplier to the TCF store.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Test said:


> Are you sure? When I go into the TCF store and select the adapter it still says....
> 
> Price: $59.00
> Retail Price:
> ...


Looks like the price was changed again. Or maybe the price displayed was wrong before (I never added it to the cart). But it definitely was listed at $42.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Until I get told otherwise I'll still send folks to weaknees and ptvupgrade too.
I'm all for this place being self sustaining, or making a buck, but squelching choice would be bad.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> Until I get told otherwise I'll still send folks to weaknees and ptvupgrade too.
> I'm all for this place being self sustaining, or making a buck, but squelching choice would be bad.


I'd send folks to all 3, and let them decide  But def not just this one, this is America


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> I'd send folks to all 3, and let them decide  But def not just this one, this is America


well yeah Mike. That's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> well yeah Mike. That's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.


U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

I guess on this forum things work a little differently. How anyone can maintain a business with his philosophy is anyone's guess.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

weaknees said:


> Just to be clear, we are NOT a supplier to the TCF store.


I figured that to be exactly the case. Why would TCF work with Weakness when they could reap all the profits. And the profits aren't small! Take the S3 with 400GB drive for example. In bulk I would guess you could get the seagate 400GB drive for around $100 a drive. Total cost of this unit $900 ($800 for S3 and $100 for the Hard Drive). The TCF store is selling this unit for $1,200. Thats $300 profit (which doesn't factor in shipping, taxes, labor, etc). Also there is a profit on the S3 unit as well. Some folks here reported a while back that best buy is buying the S3's for $500 a unit. $600 profit is pretty dang good! Why cut someone else in on it?


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

BlackBetty said:


> I figured that to be exactly the case. Why would TCF work with Weakness when they could reap all the profits. And the profits aren't small! Take the S3 with 400GB drive for example. In bulk I would guess you could get the seagate 400GB drive for around $100 a drive. The TCF store is selling this unit for $1,200. Thats $300 profit (which doesn't factor in shipping, taxes, labor, etc). Also there is a profit on the S3 unit as well. Some folks here reported a while back that best buy is buying the S3's for $500 a unit. $600 profit is pretty dang good! Why cut someone else in on it?


Because partnerships make sense in a lot of ways; its NOT just about money.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

let's not jump all over a business model that hasn't been explained yet.
FWIW weaknees is but one player in the Tivo upgrades and parts business. There are others that the store may have partnered with. (like PTV)


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> let's not jump all over a business model that hasn't been explained yet.
> FWIW weaknees is but one player in the Tivo upgrades and parts business. There are others that the store may have partnered with.


Gunny, read the sig in the thread directly above yours.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

so I type slowly


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

tivoupgrade said:


> PTVupgrade | Exclusive supplier of TiVo Upgrades to the TiVo Community Store


I suppose that settles that. The more I think about it, the more I think that Weaknees will be seeing my business. While I understand David's desire to avoid shady people coming in here and "reccomending" their own stores, there are better ways to do that then shut down all pricing disuccsion completely. (especially since it seems to be a calculated move to drive himself business, it would be different if the rule was applied evenly before the TCF store)

_Edit: And I type the slowest of them all!_


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

where has pricing discussion been shut down?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> where has pricing discussion been shut down?


I'd point you to the thread, but it's been deleted - there was a thread over in the S3 forums talking about where people were finding good prices on the S3. After announcing that these discussions were no longer allowed, since we should all be buying from the TCF store, the thread was locked and then seems to have been deleted in the past day. :down:


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

oh ok thanks for telling me that. I had no idea.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> where has pricing discussion been shut down?


Try to create a thread about pricing


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

GoHokies! said:


> I'd point you to the thread, but it's been deleted - there was a thread over in the S3 forums talking about where people were finding good prices on the S3. After announcing that these discussions were no longer allowed, since we should all be buying from the TCF store, the thread was locked and then seems to have been deleted in the past day. :down:


Actually, that thread was shut down for a different reason; apparently one person created two separate logins and then used one of the logins to hype his product, and the other to respond and bump the thread; it was not a simple case of censorship as you would imply.

I think what you are seeing is the evolution of sponsorship in a different form and that moving forward things will be not too much different around here longer term, than they have in the past.

It has always been the case that sponsors/partners have been openly discussed and that competing entities could not be discussed as freely and openly; after all they are not contributing to the bottom line around here and shouldn't be given 'free advertising' which can undermine the folks who are.

It will be interesting to see how things play out longer term - I am honestly not fully in-the-know about any emerging policies here but am proud to be a partner of the store, as I've been a sponsor here at TCF for about six years now.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Try to create a thread about pricing


I'm thinking about going through the S3 forum and bumping all the old ones to raise the awareness of the folks over there that may not see this thread, but that may be pushing the line, even for me. 

You know, even the announcement that the rules were changing would have softened the blow a little bit, along with the acknowledgment that the rules were changing not to protect us from unscrupulous sellers posing as ordinary people recommending their own stores, (as David claimed was true in the deleted thread) but to sweep up as much business for the TCF store as possible.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

tivoupgrade said:


> Actually, that thread was shut down for a different reason; apparently one person created two separate logins and then used one of the logins to hype his product, and the other to respond and bump the thread; it was not a simple case of censorship as you would imply.


PTV, no harm meant on you guys - I didn't see the duplicate login issue. If that was the case, stating so (perhaps with a reminder that duplicate logins are not permitted) prior to the lock, along with not deleting the thread would have been a better way to handle it. (I think gunnyman above makes that point nicely)

Are you still doing sales directly, or will all of your business now be run through the store here?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Looks like the price was changed again. Or maybe the price displayed was wrong before (I never added it to the cart). But it definitely was listed at $42.


Gotcha, wish I got in on the $42 price.


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

Well my concern is that we are going to end up with a AVS situation. If you ever post there you know any posts about pricing is not allowed and is STRONGLY ENFORCED! I understand this site has a owner but it's name is Tivo "community" forums. We often see thing like "support the community" on here, but maybe that should be support the owner. Many of us have been here for years and I just don't want this place to become like AVS on this issue. I know there is allot of people interested in making money off this community and I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with people not being able to point out pricing issues and customer satisfaction issues. How long before somebody has a bad experience with TCF store and comes on here to complain only to have the thread deleted?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Patton, I'm pretty sure that's its the same guy - the uptight nature of AVS is why I don't spend much time there. It would be sad to see that attitude take over here, just for the nature of making a buck.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Test said:


> Gotcha, wish I got in on the $42 price.


It was 42 before but with shipping at about 6 something it came out to just around $49. Where that is not a bad deal at all, there has been better prices elsewhere. I am sure the store here will become competative, just give it time.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

GoHokies! said:


> PTV, no harm meant on you guys - I didn't see the duplicate login issue. If that was the case, stating so (perhaps with a reminder that duplicate logins are not permitted) prior to the lock, along with not deleting the thread would have been a better way to handle it. (I think gunnyman above makes that point nicely)
> 
> Are you still doing sales directly, or will all of your business now be run through the store here?


I'm sure you'll agree that there is never a 100% perfect way to handle things like this - people are doing the best that they can. Although I believe you when you say 'no harm meant' you do understand that recommending/supporting the competition IS potentially harmful, yes?

Of course, it is your choice if you do so -- but if you think things through, there is logic that would support why openly discussing and supporting competitors wouldn't be greatly appreciated among those invested.

Yes, I understand that folks want the 'freedom' to discuss such things - but one thing I find curious is why it would be so important to discuss one of the few things that IS potentially harmful to the folks who are helping make the forum what it is; a free resource that provides so much value in so many other ways.

If getting the absolute best price and discussing it is SO important, then why do it here? If the answer is because 'this is where the action is' then why NOT support the businesses that help to provide the resource in the first place?

Or is it a simple issue of wanting what is not permitted. The man is keeping me down? 

OK well, I've said my piece - I'm sure there are those that will agree or disagree - I should watch myself, of course - I'm not completely objective on this issue - clearly I don't represent the interests of the average member here - but I'd suggest that those who simply want to get the lowest prices on things aren't average members of the 'community' either.

Plenty of other places to discuss the things that are considered 'verboten' here - its not just price-related stuff, as we all know.

Anyhoo, I'd suggest you give the store a chance to offer the products they do and create value as a supplier to the community. My own personal experience has been that paying a little more for certain things from vendors like buy.com and newegg.com simply because its easy, they are reputable, and quick to fulfill orders is an important factor. Plus, the success of the store will most likely translate to the growth and support of the infrastructure of the forum; a place that we all want to be here for us...

Cheers,
Lou


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

tivoupgrade said:


> Yes, I understand that folks want the 'freedom' to discuss such things - but one thing I find curious is why it would be so important to discuss one of the few things that IS potentially harmful to the folks who are helping make the forum what it is; a free resource that provides so much value in so many other ways.
> 
> If getting the absolute best price and discussing it is SO important, then why do it here? If the answer is because 'this is where the action is' then why NOT support the businesses that help to provide the resource in the first place?
> 
> Or is it a simple issue of wanting what is not permitted. The man is keeping me down?


What I'm picking up from the posts, is that people want to discuss it here not because "this is where the action is", but because it has always been discussed here. Now all of a sudden it isn't allowed.

I also don't think its the fact that people want to "harm" the forums, but some people do want the best product at the best price. If the site really needs to be supported I would suggest a nice DONATE button somewhere here, because honestly if I could get the tivo network adapter from here for $59 OR from tivo themselves for the same price, I would probably get it directly from them (but really look for a cheaper price, HA)...

A side note...I was checking out the upgrade kits and I may actually get one, just because it would be easier just to buy it and pop it in...unless I find out from here somewhere in the help section a detailed way to backup my drive and copy it to a cheaper drive bought from the store and I realize the work + $$$ savings add up...but thats a whole other can of worms.


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Can you use the same login as the forum, or do you need to create a new account? Also is there sales tax in CA?


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

I would think a forum dedicated to the series III TiVo's would be allowed to talk about all aspect of the product including PRICING and availability. This place would be the logical chose to talk about pricing for the series III TiVo considering that The forum is called tivo community.

If the owner of the site was having such financial difficulties then why, for the 5+ years have I been here, have I not seen once a donate button on this site.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

peteypete said:


> Can you use the same login as the forum, or do you need to create a new account? Also is there sales tax in CA?


If you live in Ca, and the vendor is based in Ca (or has nexus), you will get charged 6%-8.25% in sales tax.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

Geesh people.

What's with everyone crapping on the OWNER of TCF?

Don't like the changing business model, open your own competing site.

What? You don't have the time, resources, expetise? Stop complaining.

You know how to comparison shop don't you? If the TC Store has something at a price you are willing to pay and the service you desire, by all means support it.

FWIW, Weaknees, and PTV upgrade where unknown to me until, TCF. Unless we all want more ads, and pop-ups and pop-unders (just making a comment not a suggestion), we must find a way to give back, while getting something in return. The "old" model was bound to break. I'm all for the OWNERS of this site setting the rules and FINALLY getting a return on their investment.

That said, I'm in the market for replacement/upgraded drives more 2 of my units. I will give TCF, PTV, and Weeknees an equal opportunity at my business.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ufo4sale said:


> If the owner of the site was having such financial difficulties then why, for the 5+ years have I been here, have I not seen once a donate button on this site.


Because you only been here for 5 years. Back in old days were was a drive that if my memory is correct raised about $20K for new servers. Then TiVo stepped in and for years was paying David undisclosed amounts to help with running this board. I don't know how much David was making from advertisement but I recall him bragging about success of TCF and even doing consulting and lectures on how to create profitable forums. Apparently, with just about everybody running ad blockers software the cost per click model doesn't make as much anymore. Guy has to make a living just like everybody else here. Times are hard for small businesses, hope Dave's new venture works - overwise days of TCF are counted. You can agree or disagree with bans on stock talk, political discussions, video extraction and other bans, but ban on discussing competitors prices is a only one that I personally agree with. Dave runs the business. Unlike TiVo, he doesn't have a printing press to print stock certificates to cover loses. Give guy a break and wish him luck with his new endeavor.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

> How long before somebody has a bad experience with TCF store and comes on here to complain only to have the thread deleted?


That is a legit concern. It looks like that TCF store is drop-shipping from distributors. Being small volume (at least at first) they will not have any control over the shipments or quality of the items. Depending on who they use, you may have problems with returns and refunds for defective items. Don't get me wrong - there are good distributors and were are some shady ones. From the quick glance at TCF store "inventory", it looks like they are using some general electronics place like Wynit, DBL or Petra. On the surface these types of places look great - just make a website, copy pictures from their catalogs and make easy money selling their products. But in reality - they don't have competitive pricing on most items and they suck for most part with returning merchandise. Since store is a one that makes return guaranties, quite often store owner either has to eat the loss or ends up with an angry customer. If I was in Dave's shoes, I wouldn't even offer expensive items like plasma and LCD Tvs - it only takes few sales of expensive items to go bad (distributor does not accept return - customer contests CC charge) and your profits are gone. And he certainly can not afford angry posts here. So yes, you may see some complains deleted.


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

I;m not the owners accountant but the guy must be doing well (AVS,DBSTALK,TCF).However why is it unexpected that when users of this forum get walked on we get upset? Most of us would prefer doing business with sponsors of the site, but that doesn't mean the users aren't going to shop around. Were customers also and we don't deserve to have our user rights curtailed because the owners and sponsors want more money off the community. I want this community to stay active and healthy and if the users get treated badly people will leave. I don't want that to happened. I'm sure though were viewed as consumers by the owner and it's sponsors and not a "community". However they are starting to act like we have a obligation to support the sponsors even if they aren't competitive or don't have very good customer service. I can remember a very ugly thread just a month ago about a certain retailer who sponsors this site and other ventures do some pretty shady things to a community member. Are some of you advocating censoring experiences of tivo community members for the sake if some guys right to make a buck? We should expect the seller of the service or goods to try to earn our business or maybe somebody should talk to tivo to start there own community boards.


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## heyitscory (Apr 6, 2004)

generalpatton71 said:


> I;m not the owners accountant but the guy must be doing well (AVS,DBSTALK,TCF).However why is it unexpected that when users of this forum get walked on we get upset? Most of us would prefer doing business with sponsors of the site, but that doesn't mean the users aren't going to shop around. Were customers also and we don't deserve to have our user rights curtailed because the owners and sponsors want more money off the community. I want this community to stay active and healthy and if the users get treated badly people will leave. I don't want that to happened. I'm sure though were viewed as consumers by the owner and it's sponsors and not a "community". However they are starting to act like we have a obligation to support the sponsors even if they aren't competitive or don't have very good customer service. I can remember a very ugly thread just a month ago about a certain retailer who sponsors this site and other ventures do some pretty shady things to a community member. Are some of you advocating censoring experiences of tivo community members for the sake if some guys right to make a buck? We should expect the seller of the service or goods to try to earn our business or maybe somebody should talk to tivo to start there own community boards.


Well put.

IBTL


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

generalpatton71 said:


> maybe somebody should talk to tivo to start there own community boards.


What did your last slave die of?

(by the way TiVo Inc. already operate several forums on their own site, it is hard to tell because they are more limited in scope but they don't seem to be as popular as TCF)


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

pgogborn said:


> What did your last slave die of?
> 
> (by the way TiVo Inc. already operate several forums on their own site, it is hard to tell because they are more limited in scope but they don't seem to be as popular as TCF)


My last slave drive died on my tivo of a power spike. I think most of the forum areas are for Beta testers.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

ufo4sale said:


> I would think a forum dedicated to the series III TiVo's would be allowed to talk about all aspect of the product including PRICING and availability. This place would be the logical chose to talk about pricing for the series III TiVo considering that The forum is called tivo community.


PTV, I think that this said it best for me. The no harm comment was directed at you, because (I assumed) that the stop on the talk about price was David's decision and not yours. That's why I asked if you were going to continue selling directly - I should have qualified my earlier comments about Weakness by saying that I would still buy from you if doing so happened outside the TCF store. I just don't want to support this business decision with my wallet. If that harms you, maybe you can put the pressure on David to lighten things up a bit and at least let the discussion fly in the S3 forum where the pricing and availability is a pretty big issue.

I understand and support the other bans - video extraction due to the legal issues, political issues due to the incredible amount of policing that needs to happen on the part of the mods to keep those threads from turning into a troll filled garbage fest and the stock talk probably for a combination of those two. The ban on price discussions only seems to serve the purpose of making a buck for the sites operator, and as such I can't support that for the reasons that ufo4sale stated.

For example, I'm also a big fan of satellite radio and frequent xmfan.com - there is an xmfan store, and I've happily utilized them (and encourage anyone else to do so). However, if I find a deal at say, Best Buy, that is a really great price, I'm free to let the others in the community know about it. If that were the case here, I would be first in line to buy from the TCF store. It's not that I want to see harm come to the site or anything, but just that I disagree with the bosses heavy handed business methods.

Hopefully this isn't IBTL, I think that this is an important discussion to have so long as we can all remain polite and civil.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

generalpatton71 said:


> I think most of the forum areas are for Beta testers.


Instead of 'thinking' how about checking?

The forums I came across after a quick look are:

TiVo DVR Setup
Connecting your DVR and completing Guided Setup Control your TV or change

Remote and Channel Changing 
Control your TV or change channels on your cable or satellite box

Wired and Wireless Networking 
Connect your DVR to your wired or wireless home network.

TiVoToGo 
Discussion of setup and transfer issues related to TiVoToGo

Using the TiVo Service 
Discuss features of the TiVo Service

All in all not very exciting which may be why the TiVo Inc. forum page says that if you "have a question that isn't support related? Visit TiVo Community Forum for a discussion of all things TiVo". TiVo Community Forum? I seem to have heard of that somewhere before.


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## heyitscory (Apr 6, 2004)

pgogborn said:


> Instead of 'thinking' how about checking?


Ah, that dry, cool Brittish wit.

You're wonderful.


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

I think it's fair to say, based on the post by PTVUpgrade, the sponsors are controlling the TCF. 

I'll never buy from the TCS or PTVUpgrade. Period. And all of my referrals go to other vender's, most specifically Weakness. I wonder how long a Weakness link would last in my sig???


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

heyitscory said:


> Ah, that dry, cool Brittish wit.
> 
> You're wonderful.


I think dry, cool, sober, British disdain would be closer - but still no cigar.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

montag said:


> I think it's fair to say, based on the post by PTVUpgrade, the sponsors are controlling the TCF.
> 
> I'll never buy from the TCS or PTVUpgrade. Period. And all of my referrals go to other vender's, most specifically Weakness. I wonder how long a Weakness link would last in my sig???


I threw PTV the bone in my last post - as far as I'm concerened he's got the chance to dissassociate himself with this decision and keep some business. If not, I've had nothing but good dealings with Weakness.


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## heyitscory (Apr 6, 2004)

montag said:


> I think it's fair to say, based on the post by PTVUpgrade, the sponsors are controlling the TCF.
> 
> I'll never buy from the TCS or PTVUpgrade. Period. And all of my referrals go to other vender's, most specifically Weakness. I wonder how long a Weakness link would last in my sig???


Montag, you made me smile this morning. What is this, Montag 5.0?


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## heyitscory (Apr 6, 2004)

pgogborn said:


> I think dry, cool, sober, British disdain would be closer - but still no cigar.


Aaaah... ya still got it. :up:


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

heyitscory said:


> Montag, you made me smile this morning. What is this, Montag 5.0?


It just goes to show you, Cory, that there are some causes that can bring anyone together....even us.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

deleted my post as david said it all...


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

Hi All...

Thanks for the pricing feedback within in the store. Yes, we are making changes as we go for some of the pricing were listed not where they should have been. Example is the USB Wireless adaptor. It has a MAP pricing that needs to be posted, it was, then it got changed by mistake, and then it was changed back. Anyone listing the price lower than MAP is not playing by the rules of TiVo. (Same goes for all TiVo products...even the S3 needs to be shows at the current MAP price.) We soon will have deals to come and yes, we have a warehouse and stock items.

As for some other things that I want to clear up...

1) The rules about posting prices has *ALWAYS* been in place. They are the same rules used on AVS Forum from DAY ONE. However here, they are not enforced as much. The reason the rule is in place to begin with is not to protect store pricing, heck, never had a store until now, but to protect the site from marketers and dealers from coming to the site just to post deals to make a quick buck. They do this without paying a dime and thus get free marketing. That is not fare to the site, or to the site sponsors. The site is not here for deals, the site is here for help and support first and foremost. Forum Rules We will continue remove posts that we think come from such people. But for the most part, member to member has not been an issue. (but can be, see next point.)

2) In the case of the TWO, only TWO, S3 threads that were removed. One was removed for the person who stated it pulled the wool over the members eyes here to sell S3's. And he did...a lot of them. Never once contacted us for ads or anything until after he was stopped. This is JUST NOT RIGHT. Posting as a normal member trying to help others get a good deal all while HE WAS THE DEALER!!!! The other thread, about who has the best price on an S3, was removed for we did not want the same to start up again with dealer links looking to make a quick $ from this site. No other threads have been closed or removed that has dealt with pricing that I am aware of. I have not instructed the mods to do anything different than they have been.

3) In the question of the upgrades kits offered in the store. They are provided by PTVU. Weaknees was contacted first for they where a sponsor of the site longer, so they were offered first dibs and knew what was coming for a very long time (months), even before anyone else. A place in the store for all their products, or even just some, was offered. However, a deal could not be made. Though the door is open as always. Also...If you have not seen it...Please note the announcement in the upgrade area that was added this morning.... VIEW HERE If we wanted to shut down the other dealers, we could. But you will not find a thread removed from Weakness or PTRU removed. Heck, Lou still sells direct and both of the sticky posts for them are still stuck.

4) TiVo, Inc has been offered this site several time over the past years. It is something they rather have being run by a third party. I can 100% understand that reasoning for their is a lot to gain from it. TiVo has been part of this site from day one. It was even their idea to split it off from AVS and advised on colors and what have you that that would like. I work closely with them but they do not call the shots or tell me what to remove or allow. If another sales site bought TCF, you would bet is all you would see are ads for their store. (Be it Amazon, Weaknees, PTVU, Etc.)

5) We have opened a Custom Service forum area here for the store. Thus if people use that, you will be able to see the remarks made. Though if someone comes in just to bash the store for no reason, like not even being a customer but wanting to make for issues, yes, you can bet it would be removed. (their is a difference.) What we will pride ourselfs on is the customer service. For those of you that know me, you know my rules of business and how I treat others. For those that do not know me and care to know more...please feel free to purchase and read the following book... Entrepreneur Focus You will find my personal interview on page 233. (based on AVS Forum)

The store idea came from other sites that have the same type of success with a dedicated product site. Like some cell phone sites that started as a forum but are now much more than that but still running a great forum. Seeing that TCF sees 1.4 million unique visitors a month, I needed to do something, so this is it. He hope you may choose to look at the store for your needs. If you find something...Great. If not...Can't say you did not try.  We will not always be the lowest, we know that. But we do what we can and will be offering discounts to forum members very soon.

I post for some of the posts by members above seems as either they where misinformed, did not know all the facts, or plan just cared to try to attack the site for no real reason.

Hope this helps and thanks all.

[Edited to fix link to announcement and clear up a sentence. (see below)]


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

generalpatton71 said:


> I think most of the [tivo.com] forum areas are for Beta testers.


Not at all. In fact, none of them are. Beta testers have their own private site. (I'm not a beta tester but this is what I have been told.)

TiVo's own forums (http://forums.tivo.com) are aimed much more at helping standalone TiVo owners use their TiVos. It does not have general discussion and avoids any discussion of modifications. TiVo's forums are much more closely regulated and rely primarily on a team of volunteer users to respond to questions.

I think TCF is a more valuable resource overall, but I can understand that TiVo would prefer to steer users to their own forum first. (TCF is mentioned frequently, however, for those who want broader discussions.)


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

David Bott said:


> The other thread, the best price on an S3 thread was removed for we did not want the same to start up again.


I didn't understand that part.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

HDTiVo said:


> I didn't understand that part.


Sorry...It is meant that we did not want the same links to be posted again that tries to promote sales. Such threads draw in other dealers to just come to the site to make a post like "I found this great deal here" when they have a vested interest. Or...A member here is asked, yes ASKED, to make such posts for a company in exchange for something. So the thread was removed for it is a magnet of sorts. 

Sorry for the confusion, I have edited the sentence.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I find it amusing that the TCF Store still has the spelling/grammar errors in the banner (extra apostrophes).

Question to everybody. Do errors like this make it less likely that you'll patronize a business?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> Question to everybody. Do errors like this make it less likely that you'll patronize a business?


For a store I came upon that I didn't know much about, it would be a big factor.

As a regular reader of this site, I expect I'll see lots of information about TCS that will make the grammer issue a small factor.

Thanks for the answer DB.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

macquariumguy...

Thanks for letting us know. It seems that one of the graphics got uploaded when it was noticed, but the others were not. (I am gussing you are talking about the top menu bar of the site with the issue of ' with TV's and DVD's.)

If you see other such gammer issues, please feel free to PM me or the Store Admin user. 

Thanks again for the help.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

David Bott said:


> macquariumguy...Thanks for letting us know. It seems that one of the graphics got uploaded when it was noticed, but the others were not. (I am *gussing* you are talking about the top menu bar of the site with the issue of ' with TV's and DVD's.)
> 
> If you see other such gammer issues, please feel free to PM me or the Store Admin user.
> 
> Thanks again for the help.


Dave STOP Misspelling !!!!!! You are killing us man !!!!!!


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

LOL...See what happens when you forget spell checks.

Ok, here you go all...For all your help support, I just opened up a 15% discount* on ANY PUCHASE made in the TC Store and still with the FREE SHIPPING.

*Coupoon code = tcdeal * and expires this Sunday.

*Max value savings $150 per customer.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

David - can you change it so you can ship to somewhere besides the billing address? 

Maggie and I like to ship stuff to work so it is a lot easier to get.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

weaknees said:


> Just to be clear, we are NOT a supplier to the TCF store.


I wonder if PTV upgrade can make the same statement?

Would be interesting to see if David decided to do it himselfg or use one of hte 2 big guns...

not sure it would mean anything but it would be interesting....


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

Hi Mike...

As posted in earlierin theis thread.... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4511326&&#post4511326



> 3) In the question of the upgrades kits offered in the store. They are provided by PTVU. Weaknees was contacted first for they where a sponsor of the site longer, so they were offered first dibs and knew what was coming for a very long time (months), even before anyone else. A place in the store for all their products, or even just some, was offered. However, a deal could not be made. Though the door is open as always.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

generalpatton71 said:


> ... we don't deserve to have our user rights curtailed because the owners and sponsors want more money off the community. ....


there's some valid points both ways but what "rights" do you have in regards to posting at TCF? ZERO is the answer. You're rights are not being violated- maybe your sensibilities, your feelings, your whatever, but not your rights.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

David Bott said:


> Hi Mike...
> 
> As posted in earlierin theis thread.... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4511326&&#post4511326


thanks-
I didn't get that far when I first replied-LOL

Good luck with the store.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

David Bott said:


> LOL...See what happens when you forget spell checks.
> 
> Ok, here you go all...For all your help support, I just opened up a 15% discount* on ANY PUCHASE made in the TC Store and still with the FREE SHIPPING.
> 
> ...


Good deal, I may pull the trigger and PUCHASE that replacement HDD...HA


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> there's some valid points both ways but what "rights" do you have in regards to posting at TCF? ZERO is the answer. You're rights are not being violated- maybe your sensibilities, your feelings, your whatever, but not your rights.


That's true. I have greatly reduced my contributions to TCF for such reasons. Over the years I've seen many good, intelligent people depart entirely.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Over the years I've seen many good, intelligent people depart entirely.


Over the years I've seen many new good, intelligent people enter and remain on the forum.


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## dsb411 (Sep 29, 2004)

Complete rip off. Optoma H31 home theater DLP projector TCS price $1099. Real world price $699. What color is the sky in their world?


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## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

It's a pity that thread on best S3 prices is gone, because right now I'm pretty sure the TC Store has the best price on an S3, thanks to the TCDEAL coupon code. Not sure where to post that info.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

dsb411 said:


> Complete rip off. Optoma H31 home theater DLP projector TCS price $1099. Real world price $699. What color is the sky in their world?


Pondering...Doing a price search shows we are in line at a price of $960 (not $1099) with other companies. That is BEFORE the 15% off. (I had to look to be sure our prices on it was not entered wrong.)

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...zilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=title

But as mentioned, we will not always be the lowest but real would $699 does not seem to be it also when you do a search. It is a good deal though! So snap it up!

In fact I found one for $599 after $100 rebate!!!!

http://www.visualapex.com/lcdprojectors/LCD_projectors_details.asp?MFR=Optoma&chPartNumber=H31

(They are even an AVS Forum sponsor! So you can trust them.)


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

David - thanks for posting. You've addressed a lot of points that I've brought up, but I still can't agree with you. Your first point states that the rule has always been in place, however if it hasn't been enforced then it is effectively not there. I completely understand your wanting to close down on the spammers that come in here and recommend their own stores posing as satisfied customers that just found a great deal. It seems that between the work that you do, and the work of the forum members (smoking out that eBay guy recently, for example) that this sort of thing is pretty well in hand. But at the end of the day, I can only come to the conclusion that you're now clamping down on the talk as to get more of the communities business for your store - something that is perfectly within your right as founder/owner/administrator to do. It's a business decision that you had to make, and obviously you think that the lost business from the disgruntled folks will be offset by the supporters and you'll come out ahead.

As far as the locked threads go, the one that I was talking about was the second one - I didn't see the double posting issue that others spoke of earlier, and your posts in the thread clearly indicated that the thread wasn't to be used for pricing discussions, and a debate like this one had started to get off the ground. It seems kind of underhanded to lock and delete the thread, although I'm glad that you're letting the discussion run its course here. My impressions of that thread are just based on what I remember since it was deleted, so I admit that my recollection of it may be off.



> I post for some of the posts by members above seems as either they where misinformed, did not know all the facts, or plan just cared to try to attack the site for no real reason.


I do hope that I wasn't one of the members you were speaking of there. It doesn't look like any of my facts were in question and I think my reasoning is pretty well laid out. I do want to see the site (including the store) succeed, I just wish that the discussion could be a little bit more open in the pricing arena - it seems like things were pretty well policed before, and I don't see any reason why that would change. (speaking of the spammers here - I know that you're going to not always be the cheapest, and would be willing to pay a bit of a premium for the kind of customer service that I'm sure you'll provide and to support a great site like this one could be)


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

GoHokies...Thanks for the note and clear thought and I can respect your view point.

Please be sure to note I had mentioned...*"No other threads have been closed or removed that has dealt with pricing that I am aware of. I have not instructed the mods to do anything different than they have been."* I am trying to keep the site as open as it can be, but we do need to have controls in place so marketing does not go out of control. We have always been doing this sort of thing. So I do disagree with *"however if it hasn't been enforced then it is effectively not there"* But we truly do this this more on AVS based on the site and reach.

Thanks


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

JustAllie said:


> It's a pity that thread on best S3 prices is gone, because right now I'm pretty sure the TC Store has the best price on an S3, thanks to the TCDEAL coupon code. Not sure where to post that info.


Well Dan created a new one just like it, and what do you know...TCS is featured. 

I supose that thread is just sitting out there ready to be "bastardized" by somebody.


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

I just wanted to say I didn't mean to attack this forum. Some posters went a little hostile and I think over reacted to somebody trying to stand up for the community. To me it means allot that the owner would come in and address these concerns.I think if the status quo is held the user base will remain very happy. There is some wiggle room to be able to talk price on this forum and not end up like fat wallet on one extreme and AVS on the other.


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## dsb411 (Sep 29, 2004)

David Bott said:


> Pondering...Doing a price search shows we are in line at a price of $960 (not $1099) with other companies. That is BEFORE the 15% off. (I had to look to be sure our prices on it was not entered wrong.)
> 
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...zilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=title
> 
> ...


You just proved my point. $599 is almost half of what your price is listed. I was being generous not including the $100 rebate. How could you possibly claim yours is a good deal?


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

dsb411 said:


> You just proved my point. $599 is almost half of what your price is listed. I was being generous not including the $100 rebate. How could you possibly claim yours is a good deal?


Dude - go get it somewhere else and shutup.

You apparently missed the simple text "Not Everything".


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

WOW...Something I wish I could have said. I am sorry, but Mike is right in what he said. You can feel free to go to each store in the list I provided and let them know the same. I was even being nice and showing you where you could ge the best deal. Never, ever, said we would have the best deals on all things. But right now it seems we do on the S3 boxes.

Thank you.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

dsb411 said:


> You just proved my point. $599 is almost half of what your price is listed. I was being generous not including the $100 rebate. How could you possibly claim yours is a good deal?


What he proved is he's an honest shopkeeper. How many places you shop will tell you that the item you want is cheaper someplace else? Shop with Dave or Not, your choice.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

David Bott said:


> WOW...Something I wish I could have said.


Iinteresting response... HDTiVo made an observation a few weeks ago that TiVo (and now TCF?) supporters have more leeway than "trolls" in tone & word choice in disagreeing with people on the forum.

I think it's fine to host a store here and I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect various pricing at various times compared to others. But I don't think it's fine to support hostility towards those who disagree with your initiative.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

I totally agree with you Dave. And thus is why I usually do not say such things. But come on, in this case WOW is the right reaction to my perfectly nice reply to him. I did not resond to him, but when Mike did, he was right on for the most part. This was not hostility at all based on his own responce. All in all, we move on. 

Thanks


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> What he proved is he's an honest shopkeeper. How many places you shop will tell you that the item you want is cheaper someplace else? Shop with Dave or Not, your choice.


last time I saw it was when Santa Clause worked at Macy's in the "mircle on 34th street"


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Well, I do think in this case dsb411 was a little obtuse. 


I was also saying that supporters can be Trolls as well as detractors can be, according to what seems to be the definition.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The 15% off promo is tempting me. I'm considering the purchase of a S3 TiVo.

http://store.tivocommunity.com/merc...ode=EA&Product_Code=2777&Category_Code=S3TIVO

Just confused; what does the following mean?

Price:	$799.99 
Retail Price: $29.99
Savings: $17.04


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

LOL...Sorry about that, it will be corrected. The inventory was being worked on on the database and those fields got a little messed up. 

It should be...

Price: $799.99
Retail Price: $799.99
Savings: $0.00

(Or just blank for the two fields)

For it is MAP pricing. 

Thanks for letting us know.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

What is the phone #?


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

Hi...

Not sure who you are asking but if you mean a number for the store or customer support...we handle things via e-mail at this time and in the store cutomer service area of this site.

Thanks


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## wdave (Jul 16, 2000)

I ordered from the TCS yesterday, 15% discount with free shipping, and it was delivered today. Great service TCS, received my goods in 24 hours! Gotta love that!


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