# CNET 1/25 Covered with Norton splash screen during FF



## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

While watching the latest CNET Tivocast, I started fast forwarding at the beginning where there was a Norton commercial. A Norton ad screen popped up convering a good portion of the screen after an obnoxious be-deep sound. I expected it to go away after the ad completed, but it was still there after the show started. It pops up whenever I FF and RW throughout the show with the loud beeping everytime. Is that a new 'feature' or something not working correctly. It is hard to stop at the next review of interest when half the screen is covered with this crap. I would hate to see these popups during broadcast programming. I thought they were only to be displayed over the product commercial itself.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

what is the name of the episode?


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

I have no problem if they put up static pictures while I FF or RW...as long as I can still see the action on the TV so I know when to stop/start.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

BlackBetty said:


> I have no problem if they put up static pictures while I FF or RW...as long as I can still see the action on the TV so I know when to stop/start.


How much real estate dedicated to ads would be too much for you?

It just seems like every week we are getting something new.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

I just deleted that episode and gave CNET three thumbs down. I am furious over this. I refuse to pay what I'm paying for my TiVos to have 85% of the screen covered with some static ad if I decide to FF or RW. 

I have no problem if they want to take up 25% or less of the screen and put the ad in a corner, but this is ridiculous and if it spreads to other recordings I will cancel my subscriptions and switch my TiVo'd TVs out with MCE Machines. I only keep TiVo because of loyalty and suggestions. It will not be that difficult to replace them.

Thanks for listening to me rant. I'm so po'd right now I had to come vent.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ah30k said:


> How much real estate dedicated to ads would be too much for you?
> 
> It just seems like every week we are getting something new.


I would say up to 50% of the screen. Larger if you can see through the picture and see what you are fastforwarding.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

BlackBetty said:


> I would say up to 50% of the screen. Larger if you can see through the picture and see what you are fastforwarding.


You are way more accommodating than I!


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

bubba1972 said:


> While watching the latest CNET Tivocast, I started fast forwarding at the beginning where there was a Norton commercial. A Norton ad screen popped up convering a good portion of the screen after an obnoxious be-deep sound. I expected it to go away after the ad completed, but it was still there after the show started. It pops up whenever I FF and RW throughout the show with the loud beeping everytime. Is that a new 'feature' or something not working correctly. It is hard to stop at the next review of interest when half the screen is covered with this crap. I would hate to see these popups during broadcast programming. I thought they were only to be displayed over the product commercial itself.


This happened several times during early trials of the ad-insertion technology in broadcast content, a while back. While I can't be 100% certain, I'm going to go ahead and go out on a limb anyway and suggest that it was something not working correctly, because as you point out, it *very* negatively disrupts core dvr functionality.

I hope that a TiVo employee will be able to confirm this was an error.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Anything so large that I cannot tell when to stop the FF is too much. It is rapidly approaching that point depending on what is on the commercial.

Al


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Just finished watching the ad. It took up maybe 1/4 to 1/3rd of the screen smack dab in the middle. If it was during a broadcast show and you were fast forwarding through the commercials, you would easily be able to see when the show started up again.

I thought it was well done. Folks face it, ads are here to stay. Wouldn't you like for TiVo to stay in business for a long time? It has posted 1 maybe 2 small profitable quarters in 8 years! No matter what DVR from whatever company you own going forward you will be seeing ads. TiVo has proven itself to create a very tasteful and simple interface. I know they will do the same wtih the ad placements. I have faith in TiVo because they have earned that.


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

I have not seen the ad yet, but I did read about it yesterday.....

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/AQTH026A24012008-1.htm


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

I just did a rough measurement of the ad. It's just about exactly 50% of the screen width, and well more than 50 % of the height. It is completely opaque so it really is tough to see what's going on in the background.

Until now I've tolerated all of the slippery slope advertising that's been creeping in...the star banners, the delete screen banners, and the occasional thumbs. But this has gone way too far IMO. I'm not happy if this continues.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

jjberger2134 said:


> I have not seen the ad yet, but I did read about it yesterday.....
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/AQTH026A24012008-1.htm


THis article is focusing on the little 'thumbs up' for more information thing up in the corner of the screen. I have zero problem with that....actually it's kind of cool. It does not go into a giant screen-blocking advertisement whenever you touch the FF/RW functions.


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

I just watched the CNET video and I have mixed feelings on this. 

First, as BlackBetty mentioned - TiVo struggles financially and I (as everyone else on this board) want to see them succeed. Thus, if advertising is their solution then so be it.

However, this type of advertising really steps over the line (IMO) and I agree with etz. Since the ad is totally opaque it is tough to see what is happening on the show that you are viewing. I could understand TiVo's reasoning if the ads only played during the FF of an actual commercial, but to play during the FF of the show, well that steps over the line for me. 

I really do not care about the yellow star ads, or the delete ads, or the fact that they put the Norton commercial before and after the CNET TiVoCast, but I do care that I was forced to watch a commercial while FF the actual show.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

All you have to do is hit clear, while fast forwarding, and the billboard ad goes away. This will become a problem if you don't have the ability to get rid of the ad while watching a program.


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

I took a look also and am not too pleased... The good news - you don't see the ad while using the 30-second skip.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Extra key presses to be able to see when to stop a FF is not a problem?

I just did the measure as well, it was a little over 50&#37;. The sizes are creeping up fast. At 75 or 80% it's going to be tough.

ac


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## FourOhFour (Apr 4, 2001)

Haven't seen this yet, but between this and the new larger gold star ads, I won't be buying another TiVo.

I also recall in the early days of this forum plenty of threads poking fun at the competition for having ads while fast forwarding.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

acvthree said:


> Extra key presses to be able to see when to stop a FF is not a problem?


I'm now sure which side you are on based on your comment. The clear button is way down the bottom and for me not easily reachable when using the trick-play buttons.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

etz said:


> I just did a rough measurement of the ad. It's just about exactly 50% of the screen width, and well more than 50 % of the height. It is completely opaque so it really is tough to see what's going on in the background.


I think it's pretty dang easy to see what's going on in the behind that little ad in the center of the screen because 3/4 of the picture is still clearly visible.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

I just tried the clear trick for kicks. Yes, it does clear the ad, but now navigating through a program becomes a 2 hand operation. Especially annoying is when youre trying to FF/RW in bursts. The ad comes back with each each time.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> I think it's pretty dang easy to see what's going on in the behind that little ad in the center of the screen because 3/4 of the picture is still clearly visible.


Isn't the center 25% of the screen the most important w.r.t understanding the action?


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm sorry I posted a new thread before I realized there was already a thread on this. 

I was really angry about this, because it was a huge square that covered the actual program itself while I tried to FF. 

I actually don't mind the Thumbs-up ads that occur during the commercials. I would click on them if it's about a product I'm interested in. But when the ad covers the program while FF-ing, then that crosses the line for me.


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## zaknafein (Jul 17, 2001)

I've not yet seen this ad, but I came here with similar complaints. I just saw a gold star inside a folder in Now Playing, which really irritated me.

The ads have just been spiraling out of control. It seems that in the last 9 months, things have just gotten worse by the minute.

It's not like we're getting a free service here. We're paying good money for DVR service, and for our money we're getting ever more intrusive advertising. I'm fast losing my patience.

I've been a TiVo owner/supporter since 2001. Between the rate hikes and the new advertising, I'm certainly not recommending TiVo to friends, and the likelihood of me buying another one is dropping by the minute.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Read bottom of message for edit, the following left for historical purposes...

I went and searched for this ad after reading this thread and sure enough you get a thumbs up ad jump thing when the Norton ad shows up at the beginning of the CNet TiVoCast. Also fast forwarding displays a pop-up ad. You can get rid of that by pressing clear, but since the ad is only 15 seconds I had a hard time pressing clear before the ad ended.

I find nothing wrong the implementation of the ad since it's like all the other pop-up ads that TiVo displays. What I do find wrong, is that there is a Norton ad, showing how CNet gave Norton 360 their editors choice award, showing up in a CNet TiVoCast. I'm assuming that Norton is actually paying money to TiVo for the ad, but because of the placement it looks like Norton is paying off CNet, which would make their editor's choice award dubious. I pretty sure that's not what's happening, but it would sure look like it to the average person.

Edit:

Okay I found something wrong with the ad. The Norton pop-up displays any time you fast forward throughout the entire TiVoCast, not just when the Norton ad is playing on the screen. This is wrong and not how the other popup ads work. TiVo needs to fix this, because I assume it's not intended.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

BlackBetty said:


> Just finished watching the ad. It took up maybe 1/4 to 1/3rd of the screen smack dab in the middle. If it was during a broadcast show and you were fast forwarding through the commercials, you would easily be able to see when the show started up again.


I disagree. I often like to watch the part of the show while FF-ing, or speed-watch through a slow section of a program. If an ad is covering it, I can't watch it. I thought Tivo was supposed to be "my way?"


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

morac said:


> I went and searched for this ad after reading this thread and sure enough you get a thumbs up ad jump thing when the Norton ad shows up at the beginning of the CNet TiVoCast. Also fast forwarding displays a pop-up ad. You can get rid of that by pressing clear, but since the ad is only 15 seconds I had a hard time pressing clear before the ad ended.


Maybe you had a different ad. The one I saw did not stop at 15 seconds, but popped up every time I tried to FF, throughout the whole show.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

I just went to http://www.cnettv.com/ and used their "CNET TV Feedback" link to tell them how I feel about this.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

javabird said:


> Maybe you had a different ad. The one I saw did not stop at 15 seconds, but popped up every time I tried to FF, throughout the whole show.


Yes as I mentioned in my edited post these ads are not behaving like normal pop-up ads. I assuming that this is a bug because the Norton ads are showing on top of the CNet program content.

Here's the ad during a review of a GPS device (sorry for the poor photo quality).










Strangely though I did not get any sound effects when the popup displayed.

You can still get rid of it by pressing clear, but hopefully TiVo will fix this.

I also found a work around:

Play the CNet video and fast forward past the ad. Then back out of the CNet video and play it again. 
Now you can fast forward without the pop-up ad as long as you don't go back to the beginning of the video. 
If I had to guess as to what happened, I'd say the closing tag isn't in the ad so the TiVo thinks the ad lasts the entire video.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

It only showed during FF and REW for me. Definitely a bug if it stays on while playing.

I'm curious to see TiVo's results now that they have so much ads going. I hope they do well.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

I don't think this is a bug. There are no commercials in CNET&#8217;s TiVoCast so why have the ad there to begin with.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I'm beginning to think this _was_ done on purpose since Molly Wood mentions to click the thumbs up button to visit their sponsor and when she says this the thumbs up icon displayed.

I'll mention again, giving a sponsor the editor's choice award for one of their products smacks of impropriety and makes me more likely to question whether CNet future good reviews will be given because a product is good or because the company paid CNet off (or sponsored CNet).

Oh and yes, the pop-up ad is annoying, but I never fast forward through CNet videos since there aren't (or weren't) any commercials in them.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

I fast forward (and rewind) quite regularly during the CNETTV episodes. All too often they're blabbering with a review about some cell phone or television that I'm completely uninterested in. FF comes in handy to get to the next segment.


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## chilaw (Jan 26, 2008)

I was just watching CNET's TivoCast - which I normally enjoy a lot - and came across these horrible pop-up ads too. I just wanted to fast forward past a segment on digital cameras (since I just bought a new DSLR less than 6 months ago, I don't need to hear about them) and what do I see but an ad for Norton! I was and still am pissed. 

I immediately went and cancelled this TivoCast and started looking for answers about this. I encourage everyone who is a Digg member to search for and Digg the various stories on this on Digg to get awareness up. This may not be a 5k+ Digg story, but it can't hurt to let people know. 

Also, you'll find some tips about the nice 30 second jump Tivo hack to avoid these ads. 

I also encourage people to write, email, and call Tivo to voice their displeasure. I also encourage people to do the same to every sponsor of these type of pop-up ads. Let Norton know that it's "no sale" for invading our blessed fast-forward space with their pitches! It's ridiculous that we pay for a service so we can avoid commercials (by far my top reason for owning a Tivo), and are compelled to look at ads!


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

Chalk me up as another unhappy TiVo customer quickly losing confidence in what has historically been a great product. 

I can understand ads being displayed during a commercial, or the thumbs up ads that take up part of the upper left/right part of the screen, but this is ridiculous displaying an add during any part of the program while fast forwarding or rewinding!!!! :down::down::down: Is it really necessary to do this while rewinding???

Let's all hope TiVo is listening and comes up with a better implementation. I don't disagree with ads, but I do expect a professional implementation of a system built specifically for a DVR when that is your core business.


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## Solver (Feb 17, 2005)

I felt that the Norton ad during CNet FF was a just little bit too big to use FF effectivly. I do not have problems with non-interfering targeted ads during FF or even in a Play List IF they are based on the subject of where they are located. An ad for getting nailed should not have been placed where it was placed.

The right kind of ads can be a bonus IF they are use wisely, as was the Norton ad at the end of the CNet TiVoCast.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

I really hope the behavior is a bug as some have suggested. I was really disappointed when I watched the CNet TiVoCast today and had that popup ad throughout the entire show. I almost went in and canceled my season pass for it, but figured I'd wait one more week and give it one more chance.

Overall, it was a big dissatisfier.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

ah30k said:


> Isn't the center 25% of the screen the most important w.r.t understanding the action?


Action on Cnet?


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

ufo4sale said:


> I don't think this is a bug. There are no commercials in CNETs TiVoCast so why have the ad there to begin with.


Theres a Norton ad at the beginning and end of the program. I recall something about a guy sleeping on the couch and his watchdog.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

etz said:


> I just went to http://www.cnettv.com/ and used their "CNET TV Feedback" link to tell them how I feel about this.


Thanks for posting this - I don't think that this kind of advertising has any place in Tivocasts. :down:


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> Larger if you can see through the picture and see what you are fastforwarding.


That seems like a reasonable threshold. All that is needed is enough visibility of what you're fast-forwarding over so you know when to stop fast-forwarding. Beyond that, there begins to be a real concern that the value of fast-forwarding may become reduced.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

jjberger2134 said:


> First, as BlackBetty mentioned - TiVo struggles financially and I (as everyone else on this board) want to see them succeed. Thus, if advertising is their solution then so be it.


I think TiVo's financial condition is only tangentially relevant. Even if TiVo was insanely profitable, they'd be justified adding advertising as much as doing so represents a positive net impact on their bottom-line.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

FourOhFour said:


> Haven't seen this yet, but between this and the new larger gold star ads, I won't be buying another TiVo.


So you'll be happy with the Motorola DVRs from Comcast?  It's not as bad as some people would have you believe, but the TiVo is still better -- really, the best DVR overall, for the vast majority of potential customers. Some folks will "build their own", I'm sure, but the number of folks who will do so will almost surely be marginal.


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

BlackBetty said:


> Just finished watching the ad. It took up maybe 1/4 to 1/3rd of the screen smack dab in the middle. If it was during a broadcast show and you were fast forwarding through the commercials, you would easily be able to see when the show started up again.
> 
> I thought it was well done. Folks face it, ads are here to stay. Wouldn't you like for TiVo to stay in business for a long time? It has posted 1 maybe 2 small profitable quarters in 8 years! No matter what DVR from whatever company you own going forward you will be seeing ads. TiVo has proven itself to create a very tasteful and simple interface. I know they will do the same wtih the ad placements. I have faith in TiVo because they have earned that.


The ad in no way is a good thing and is a disgusting viral marketing tool that will in the end cause Tivo to go under. Just so everyone who didn't see this understands that the ad covers up the most important part of the screen the Center where all of the viewing takes place, when was the last time you watched the corners of your TV, it was nearly impossible to know when to stop to return to the show, your acceptance of this stuff is the reason why they are doing it to begin with. So in closing this ad sucks Cnet Tivo cast is now gone from my Tivo and if it comes to broadcast TV my tivos will meet their fate in the dumpster!!!!


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

This is definitely going to bite TiVo in the posterior dorsal. I was so angry with the ad that, if my TiVos were on periodic subscription plans instead of lifetime, I'd have called up and canceled. Also, I had been trying to come up with a justification (and money) for buying a new HD version, but this ad has just driven off that idea.


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

bicker said:


> I think TiVo's financial condition is only tangentially relevant. Even if TiVo was insanely profitable, they'd be justified adding advertising as much as doing so represents a positive net impact on their bottom-line.


The whole reason that Tivo has these problems is they should have 
stuck to sellng the software to motorola, a major catv box mfg
I mean it didn't take off till the series 2 boxes where $100 in stores with $50
rebates, then you release a series 3 for $799 are you nuts
do you think the average joe can afford that 
and to screw your subscribers with ads like these are just more reasons
why people go with their cable providers boxes


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> Theres a Norton ad at the beginning and end of the program. I recall something about a guy sleeping on the couch and his watchdog.


There should be no reason for billboard ads in any TiVoCast download because there are no commercial breaks.


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## FourOhFour (Apr 4, 2001)

bicker said:


> So you'll be happy with the Motorola DVRs from Comcast?  It's not as bad as some people would have you believe, but the TiVo is still better -- really, the best DVR overall, for the vast majority of potential customers. Some folks will "build their own", I'm sure, but the number of folks who will do so will almost surely be marginal.


No, the motorola is damn near unusable. I'd probably switch to buying from iTunes and renting DVDs. I've run MythTV before, and as ugly as it is, it does work quite well. (and has a better scheduler than tivo)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ufo4sale said:


> There should be no reason for billboard ads in any TiVoCast download because there are no commercial breaks.


Well, that's not true...several TiVocasts I watch have commercial breaks. Including C-Net, which had a Norton ad in the last one I watched.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

TheOnion.com has a very short ad at the end, as well.


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

Fastlane Daily and DL.TV also have ads.


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## Ian (Mar 7, 2000)

Hey all-

I've been a TiVo user since they came out, and have been generally supportive of the way they've been able to incorporate ads unobtrusively into show-watching. They need to get ad revenue, of course they do. I understand.

But if the static ads move from the top right corner of the screen to cover a significant portion of the center of the screen, that's another thing entirely.

If anyone from TiVo is listening - guys, sure... keep the ads, just put them back where they were. I can still see them just fine, but they don't make it difficult for me to see what I'm forwarding past. As other people are saying, you're killing the interface here.

If anyone from Norton is listening - please don't ever allow your ad to be displayed like this again. Nothing says to me "please don't ever buy my product" like an ad that covers the center of the screen and makes my TV viewing more difficult.

Thanks for considering.

-Ian


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

I think TiVo feels they need the ads to justify to themselves and their shareholders the "free" content they are providing over the core DVR features. Imagine the accountants sitting in a room trying to figure this out. They see expenses regarding TiVoCast but no income. So they suggest to the TiVo executive to offset the expenses with some commercials. Welcome to the corporate world.

I am quite pleased over the past several years regarding the continual improvements to the overall TiVo experience. In order to get these newer features I am willing to accept some advertising as long as it is not very intrusive.

I am quite disappointed (as previously stated) over the implementation of the popup banner ad during FF, I think that goes over the line. Also, as others have stated, we now need to question the integrity of the review on CNET.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

chilaw said:


> Also, you'll find some tips about the nice 30 second jump Tivo hack to avoid these ads.


What is the 30 second jumb hack?



chilaw said:


> I also encourage people to write, email, and call Tivo to voice their displeasure. I also encourage people to do the same to every sponsor of these type of pop-up ads. Let Norton know that it's "no sale" for invading our blessed fast-forward space with their pitches! It's ridiculous that we pay for a service so we can avoid commercials (by far my top reason for owning a Tivo), and are compelled to look at ads!


I tried to find Norton's customer service email, but couldn't find it anywhere on their site. If anyone has a link, please post it.

I will NEVER buy another Norton product.


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

javabird said:


> What is the 30 second jumb hack?


While watching a previously recorded show from your now playing list, pressing the following code into the TiVo remote:

Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select

You will have the skip to tick button -->| enabled to skip 30 seconds at a time.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

devlindark said:


> The ad in no way is a good thing and is a disgusting viral marketing tool that will in the end cause Tivo to go under.


Oh brother! 

TiVo almost surely won't go under, but they indeed might be acquired. However, it is because they have never had a profitable business model, long-term, as far as I can see.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

devlindark said:


> The whole reason that Tivo has these problems is they should have stuck to sellng the software to motorola, a major catv box mfg


Are you kidding? You do realize that the Motorola DVR deal with Comcast is relatively new, and TiVo has been doing their own thing for a lot longer.

TiVo has "these problems" (i.e., lack of profitability) because we, their customers, don't perceive enough value in what they provide us, so we are unwilling to pay them enough to cover their costs.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

FourOhFour said:


> No, the motorola is damn near unusable. I'd probably switch to buying from iTunes and renting DVDs.


That's going to be TiVo's biggest competitor long-term. However, even DVDs from Netflix have started forcing me to watch commercials. More of that is coming, rest assured.



FourOhFour said:


> I've run MythTV before, and as ugly as it is, it does work quite well. (and has a better scheduler than tivo)


Good for you. For the vast majority of America, that is not even a remote possible consideration.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

For those arguing in favor of Tivo's use of ads, I want to point out that it's not the use of ads, but the FORM of the ad that many find so offensive here. I suspect Tivo is testing the waters to see what kind of ads people will tolerate. But usually, when you try to force people to do something, they tend to resist. 

There are some ads I like. I like the "Thumbs-up" ads that give me a choice. I was recently watching a David Pogue review of some new Mac software, and it there had been a "Thumbs-up" at the end, I would have used it. Instead, I wrote down the name of the software so I could look it up later on the internet. 

I have friends who refuse to go into a movie theatre until right before the show starts, because they don't want to watch the ads. Personally, I don't mind them, but that's their choice. As we get more and more bombarded with ads and information, we need to feel like we have some control.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

bicker said:


> However, even DVDs from Netflix have started forcing me to watch commercials. .


Are there commercials on the DVD? Can you FF them? I'm not a Netflix user, so I'm interested in knowing.


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## zaknafein (Jul 17, 2001)

javabird said:


> Are there commercials on the DVD? Can you FF them? I'm not a Netflix user, so I'm interested in knowing.


Netflix doesn't (as far as I am aware) get specially pressed DVDs. The discs themselves are identical to those you'd pick up at retail.

The mailing sleeves do have printed ads, but those aren't anything too worrisome.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Action on Cnet?


Yes - whatever is taking place behind the incredibly intrusive ad.
I like to be able to FF to segments that interest me. Isn't that what these DVR's are all about? It pretty much renders FF unusable for MY intended purpose.

The stupid ad blocks the most important part of the screen while FFing.
I cancelled my CNET tiVocast subscription and dropped them a note.

Additionally, if this idea creeps into regular programming, It will change my opinion of this product that I have loved so much.

bicker,
I often watch what I am FF through to scan for things that catch my interest - even when FF through commercials. For instance, if I see an ad for an interesting movie, new TV series, or even an interesting car if I am in the market for one. I VERY often skim through the actual SHOW CONTENT to get to the interesting parts (which is what I was -trying- to do on CNET). This means that I need to be able to see the screen as it skims through. ALL OF THE SCREEN.

That is why I sometimes FF instead of 30sec skip, which is useful to me for other purposes or when I'm just not in the mood to scan.

This goes to the very HEART of how -I- use my TiVo and why I have loved (and advocated for) the product all these years. I understand that you use yours differently. Please understand that, if expanded to regular shows, this would severely impact the way I use MY TiVo.

Do you not see the irony of a product that was purchased, at least to some extent, to get around commercials is now throwing them up in our face? And in a way that severely impacts TiVo's original intended use (if not to you, at least to some people - like me)?

No - this is a very bad trend.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

By the way, for broadcast content there are legal ramification of overlaying one company's ad with another's. How would you like it if McAfee paid for an ad on broadcast TV and TiVo decided to overlay it with a Semantic (sp?) ad.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Until next week (at least) I'm assuming the FF overlay on top of programming was a glitch. IIRC the same thing happened when they started the FF overlay on broadcast ads. BTW, mine has the "thumbs up" during the ad but no overlay when I FF.

Of course the whole clip has a single sponsor so I guess it's up to whatever Norton and cnet decide they want to do.


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## Binko (Jan 26, 2008)

This CNet / Norton ad touched me enough that I needed to finally post on this forum. TiVO, don't do this again, or expand it's use. It's a bad idea to cover a screen with an advertisement while fast forwarding or rewinding. You've simply gone too far with a bad idea.

It's clear that TiVO is testing the waters on advertising. Think about where it all started: there used to be unobtrusive American Express ads in a pretty well buried menu. Then they expanded things to the Product watch deal. Neither worked very well. I know the advertisers got very little traffic and therefore very little exposure. For a very long time there's been a few programs with the Thumbs Up to record deal during their advertisement. That really hasn't worked at all because there isn't enough of it. 

Now TiVO is trying to catch your attention a bit more. The Star things at the bottom of a program folder. In a way, I'm a bit offended by the message - get nailed on the DIY channel - yes it's a double entendre, but not exactly funny. And I don't have the DIY channel available from my cable provider. I actually would have appreciated something like TiVO suggestions on those stars. Pair up an ad for other good travel programs inside an Anthony Bourdain No Reservations folder. That I wouldn't mind at all. In fact I'd like that.

Then we get a Norton ad at the beginning of CNet (most other TiVOCasts have ads in them - Fast Lane Daily has at least three in their short 3 minutes, Dvorak has 4 or 5 during his show, and DL.TV has 3 or 4). Not a big problem really. And then there's this new thumbs up for more information. I kind of liked that. Wow, more information about a product, all I have to do is press thumbs up. Great idea. 

But then the experiment went way too far. The blocking my fast forward or rewind with a huge ad (stop debating this, it's a huge ad that covers enough of the screen that you cannot see what's going on behind - it's too big). Every time I FF or RW, there's the stinking ad again. It's no bug, it's on purpose. Press Cancel to defeat it, that's a bug. I really hate this. 

The big evil here is not in TiVOCasts, it's the possibility that it will spill over to regular programs we've recorded. You know the networks are upset with lost revenue due to DVR's and skipping commercials. TiVO is trying to find a way to appease or profit at that issue. I hope they find a discreet way to resolve this. But a big old sign covering my screen, not cool. I would hate to see some huge Ford logo over every FF or RW I did during say the superbowl. I could see somebody thinking that's a good idea and selling the space through TiVO. It could be very profitable. 

TiVO - find a better idea for this. The screen blocker is a very bad idea.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

I was wrong, there are ads in some TiVoCast downloads.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

djwilso said:


> I really hope the behavior is a bug as some have suggested. I was really disappointed when I watched the CNet TiVoCast today and had that popup ad throughout the entire show. I almost went in and canceled my season pass for it, but figured I'd wait one more week and give it one more chance.
> 
> Overall, it was a big dissatisfier.


it was no bug. That Cnet episode downloaded fro me and I have played with it some. The ad popped up no matter where I FFed.
Important to note that this si a TiVocast and not a show recorded from a broadcaster. However this is crossing my line even further, if TiVo wants me to use Tivocast then they either need to back off this FF ad or reduce the subscription price for my DVR. Otherwise I will cancel my TiVocasts and let the sponsor of the Tivocast know why I no longer want it on my TiVo.

Put the Norton ad inline in the Tivocast and let a popup happen over the ad but not over content.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

javabird said:


> For those arguing in favor of Tivo's use of ads


Is anyone arguing "in favor" of ads?  I think you're misunderstanding the messages you're reading.



javabird said:


> I suspect Tivo is testing the waters to see what kind of ads people will tolerate. But usually, when you try to force people to do something, they tend to resist.


Probably true on both accounts; and my guess is that the majority of folks won't change their patronage of nor preference for TiVo as a result of this new format, and the advertisers will see some positive response from the advertisements themselves, and as a result, the test will provide a positive response.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ah30k said:


> . How would you like it if McAfee paid for an ad on broadcast TV and TiVo decided to overlay it with a Semantic (sp?) ad.


it would not bother ME at all. an ad is an ad afterall. mow Mccafee might be a bit peeved 

of course that is different from an ad over content when I FF


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## tgmii (Feb 21, 2002)

I'm against wide use of these ads. I'm fundamentally against any adds for that matter. Its a paid service. I've paid $600 for box, and all I require from Tivo is program data. I don't need my Tivo screen looking like a Nascar (no offense, best way I can explain the slippery slope this is taking).

If it were smaller, and perhaps in the upper left corner, it would be an order of magnitude less annoying.

They are already selling my usage data to Neilsen, plus the money they got from me, plus all the other ad revenue thats creaping into the menus. Enough!!!!

Don't even get me started on the bugs that keep popping up in the middle of shows (not coming out of commercial, just random stars of other shows popping up on Law & Order, etc).

Tom


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bicker said:


> Is anyone arguing "in favor" of ads?  I think you're misunderstanding the messages you're reading.
> 
> Probably true on both accounts; and my guess is that the majority of folks won't change their patronage of nor preference for TiVo as a result of this new format, and the advertisers will see some positive response from the advertisements themselves, and as a result, the test will provide a positive response.


there may be a backlash of a different sort though. I used to click on the ads that interested me and was happy TiVo got some revenue from my interest coinciding with an ad. With the Nowplaying ads I became reluctant and now with this ad over top the content of a TiVocast i will not click on any ad and will start cancelling the Tivocasts and do my best to let the tivocast owner and sponsor know why I cancelled.

TiVo is still the best DVR for me, very reliable and full of features I want. Not sure what I will do if TiVo does throw up a banner ad over the broadcast content when I fast forward. If they threw up a banner over the commercials then I could care less. Hopefully there is some law or legal concern preventing TiVo from messing with the broadcast content


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> it was no bug. That Cnet episode downloaded fro me and I have played with it some. The ad popped up no matter where I FFed.


But if the ad was only supposed to be onscreen while you were FFing through the ad, then it WAS a bug.

As noted above, this happened before, and it turned out it was indeed a bug. I guess we'll find out soon enough...


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I don't think it's a bug, I think it's a poor choice by CNET or whoever is responsible for placing the the tags in the TiVoCast. Here's the TiVo press release about this.

http://finance.myway.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_ge.jsp?news_id=cmt-024p5344&feed=cmt&date=20080124

So it's the tagging that determines where the ad appears and it's probably CNET that either deliberately or accidently covered the whole program with the tags to display the FF add.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

tgmii said:


> I don't need my Tivo screen looking like a Nascar


Good analogy, though. Folks pay $274 for one ticket to one Nascar race (in this case, the Budweiser Shootout in two weeks), so they can sit front-and-center to see a bunch of cars covered with advertisements race around a track, the walls of which is covered with advertisements. That's just one race.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

nrc said:


> I don't think it's a bug, I think it's a poor choice by CNET or whoever is responsible for placing the the tags in the TiVoCast. Here's the TiVo press release about this.
> 
> http://finance.myway.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_ge.jsp?news_id=cmt-024p5344&feed=cmt&date=20080124
> 
> So it's the tagging that determines where the ad appears and it's probably CNET that either deliberately or accidently covered the whole program with the tags to display the FF add.


That article states it is an intentional effort to reach a "fast-forwarding audience."


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

bicker said:


> Is anyone arguing "in favor" of ads?  I think you're misunderstanding the messages you're reading.


Well actually, in this thread and others, some have argued that they support Tivo's use of ads (in some cases) if it helps Tivo to stay afloat financially.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

That's not the same as being "in favor" of ads.


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## jiggamanjb (Sep 22, 2006)

I've never really been annoyed by the TiVo ads before, but this one really piseed me off. I couldn't tell what was going on behind the big stupid yellow block!! It doesn't help that I have vowed to eliminate anything Symantec from any PC I come across either. This may be the last straw... :down:


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## JPA2825 (May 15, 2000)

FF ad in the center of the TiVoCast was unpleasant. The fact that you can clear it makes it more palatable. However, I like to see what I'm FFing (at least at 1x or 2x) in case something catches my eye and I can go back. With this, it's an extra button press to FF 1x, clear and repeat.

Not good for TiVo. Could care less about Norton as I find it intrusive and like an ex-girlfriend who won't "accept" a breakup when it's over to uninstall!!! Anything that makes Norton look bad is OK with me, but is simply a feather on the top of a several ton pile of crap for me. (/Norton rant off).


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

javabird said:


> Well actually, in this thread and others, some have argued that they support Tivo's use of ads (in some cases) if it helps Tivo to stay afloat financially.





bicker said:


> That's not the same as being "in favor" of ads.


Exactly... we're in favor of helping TiVo "to stay afloat financially." There's a difference.


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## Lazlo123 (Nov 7, 2006)

Someone let us all know when they take this awful idea away. Until then I will not be downloading Cnet Tivocast or any other Tivocast that does this. Too bad really, i did enjoy the tivocast, but i will not support this effort of ad revenue. Come up with something better!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo is still the best DVR for me, very reliable and full of features I want. Not sure what I will do if TiVo does throw up a banner ad over the broadcast content when I fast forward. If they threw up a banner over the commercials then I could care less. Hopefully there is some law or legal concern preventing TiVo from messing with the broadcast content


Yeah, if they only did it over commercials, as I THINK they've done it before (at least that's how I understood it), then I don't have much problems with it.

If they do it so it shows up EVERY TIME you ff/rew, then it sucks. It sucks how they used it in this TiVoCast, and would suck even more if they did it on regular TV broadcasts, which I sometimes watch on 1x FF with CC turned on.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Argumentative People said:


> These ads are a non-issue. You people are idiots for complaining about ads that interrupt your TV watching. TiVo is just trying to be profitable. Quite *****ing about nothing. These ads are awesome. I love ads. I hope the banner ads go through my whole show even when I hit play and are in every menu on my TV. YAY ADS!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

djwilso said:


> I really hope the behavior is a bug as some have suggested. I was really disappointed when I watched the CNet TiVoCast today and had that popup ad throughout the entire show. I almost went in and canceled my season pass for it, but figured I'd wait one more week and give it one more chance.
> 
> Overall, it was a big dissatisfier.





pdhenry said:


> Until next week (at least) I'm assuming the FF overlay on top of programming was a glitch. IIRC the same thing happened when they started the FF overlay on broadcast ads. BTW, mine has the "thumbs up" during the ad but no overlay when I FF.
> 
> Of course the whole clip has a single sponsor so I guess it's up to whatever Norton and cnet decide they want to do.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> But if the ad was only supposed to be onscreen while you were FFing through the ad, then it WAS a bug.
> 
> As noted above, this happened before, and it turned out it was indeed a bug. I guess we'll find out soon enough...


If this were a bug, then someone from Tivo would have already chimed in and said so.
The fact that they haven't yet leaves me concerned.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

steve614 said:


> If this were a bug, then someone from Tivo would have already chimed in and said so.
> The fact that they haven't yet leaves me concerned.


Well, the OP was at 4:30 PM Friday, so it doesn't surprise me that there's been no official word yet...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, if they only did it over commercials, as I THINK they've done it before (at least that's how I understood it), then I don't have much problems with it.
> 
> If they do it so it shows up EVERY TIME you ff/rew, then it sucks. It sucks how they used it in this TiVoCast, and would suck even more if they did it on regular TV broadcasts, which I sometimes watch on 1x FF with CC turned on.


I am still in hopes that TiVocast is different in that it is directly from the content owners who can thus treat it as they like without a middleman of the broadcasters and federal regulation. Of course it still sucks that they did this on TiVocasts. I am very much opposed to it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Yeah, didn't think about them being off for the weekend.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Well, unless I'm mistaken, the OP was at 2:32 PM on Friday, Pacific Time.

Regardless, there isn't any reason to expect any reply from TiVo -- they have never agreed to reply to all inquiries posted at them here at TCF.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> Regardless, there isn't any reason to expect any reply from TiVo -- they have never agreed to reply to all inquiries posted at them here at TCF.


Of course not, but Tivo would be foolish not to be observing the reaction on these forums. And to say venting here is falling on deaf ears seems crazy to me. They got to be reading this stuff. Or at least should be! What other companies have such a high trafficked board devoted to their product?

At times it seems us at TCF know more about what is going on with our Tivos than Tivo does. I can understand their position not to be involved here at an official level, but what a wasted resource if they are not taking note.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> Of course not, but Tivo would be foolish not to be observing the reaction on these forums. And to say venting here is falling on deaf ears seems crazy to me. They got to be reading this stuff. Or at least should be! What other companies have such a high trafficked board devoted to their product?
> 
> At times it seems us at TCF know more about what is going on with our Tivos than Tivo does. I can understand their position not to be involved here at an official level, but what a wasted resource if they are not taking note.


Agreed.
Most of the time, if a problem comes up and it is an actual bug, Tivo (Pony, Stephen, or Jerry) will usually chime in and say so.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

steve614 said:


> Agreed.
> Most of the time, if a problem comes up and it is an actual bug, Tivo (Pony, Stephen, or Jerry) will usually chime in and say so.


correct, and they might bring it up in meetings as the grumble noise has increased on TCF and even some zealots are unhappy. That is NOT enough to be actionable in the meetings though. They need some hard data from other areas befeor they would work on cutting out some revenue streams. All the grumbling here might produce is a project to collect some of the hard data such as sub numbers, reasons given for cancellation - maybe a poll of CSR calls to see what is being said there etc..

It still comes down to are they loosing revenue or product share with this ad approach that offsets the ad revenue.


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## urkel-Os (Oct 23, 2005)

greg_burns said:


> Of course not, but Tivo would be foolish not to be observing the reaction on these forums. And to say venting here is falling on deaf ears seems crazy to me. They got to be reading this stuff. Or at least should be! What other companies have such a high trafficked board devoted to their product?
> ...


/takes bait

I'm guessing Apple is a good answer, although you might have been asking a rhetorical question .

Oh, and I hate the Cnet ad too. Makes it easy to stand by an earlier decision to never use Symantec products again. I can take or leave the Cnet podcast, so as others have said, I'll just wait for the next one and see if they do it again.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Of course not, but Tivo would be foolish not to be observing the reaction on these forums.


True, but more often than not, folks in forums like this place far _too much_ emphasis on their own perspective, and the perspective of this small niche of customers.



greg_burns said:


> And to say venting here is falling on deaf ears seems crazy to me.


I would definitely NOT say that, but I suspect that quite often the folks who I referred to earlier, those that place far _too much_ emphasis on their own perspective, and the perspective of this small niche of customers, THEY often find themselves saying that their venting here is falling on deaf ears. It isn't, of course. It is just that their venting doesn't trump the other considerations.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am still in hopes that TiVocast is different in that it is directly from the content owners who can thus treat it as they like without a middleman of the broadcasters and federal regulation. Of course it still sucks that they did this on TiVocasts. I am very much opposed to it.


It is different. The content owner adds the tags that trigger the FF ad. I'm assuming that TiVo has some control over what tags it recognizes in order to make sure that they get paid something, but they don't control the location of the tags.

This is why putting tags for different products over a broadcast commercial isn't going to happen - the commercial itself contains the tags. Of course the danger is that a broadcast network could choose to do the same thing as CNET. They could put tags in their program to show a FF ad during any part of the program that isn't a commercial break. So while I don't think TiVo is responsible for the specific way that the FF ad shows up on the CNET TiVoCast, they've certainly provided a tool that is ripe for abuse.

As for a response from TiVo, I don't think you'll see one. Unless CNET comes back and says that they didn't intend to cover the whole program with the banner, TiVo's not going to come here and point fingers at their advertiser saying that it's their fault it came out that way.


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## FourOhFour (Apr 4, 2001)

nrc said:


> It is different. The content owner adds the tags that trigger the FF ad. I'm assuming that TiVo has some control over what tags it recognizes in order to make sure that they get paid something, but they don't control the location of the tags.
> 
> This is why putting tags for different products over a broadcast commercial isn't going to happen - the commercial itself contains the tags. Of course the danger is that a broadcast network could choose to do the same thing as CNET. They could put tags in their program to show a FF ad during any part of the program that isn't a commercial break. So while I don't think TiVo is responsible for the specific way that the FF ad shows up on the CNET TiVoCast, they've certainly provided a tool that is ripe for abuse.


Chances are it's really a start tag and an end tag... so an advertiser may be able to conveniently "forget" the end tag.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

FourOhFour said:


> Chances are it's really a start tag and an end tag... so an advertiser may be able to conveniently "forget" the end tag.


I doubt that. That would create too many circumstances where the tag might never get turned off. I would bet that the tag is on every frame where the ad is supposed to appear.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

nrc said:


> I doubt that. That would create too many circumstances where the tag might never get turned off. I would bet that the tag is on every frame where the ad is supposed to appear.


I'm pretty sure there is not a tag on every frame, otherwise the work around I posted above (fast forward past the ad, exit the program and go back in) wouldn't work. When the popup ads first appeared on regular TV commercials they sometimes accidentally stayed on past the commercials so I believe there is an end tag. There might also be some kind of maximum time flag in case the end tag is accidentally omitted, but if there is, it apparently does not apply to TiVoCast downloads.


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## bigray327 (Apr 14, 2000)

I'm selling my TiVo stock first thing in the morning.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

morac said:


> I'm pretty sure there is not a tag on every frame, otherwise the work around I posted above (fast forward past the ad, exit the program and go back in) wouldn't work.


That's probably correct then. I didn't see your earlier post on that. I'm surprised they'd set it up allowing so much potential for errors and/or abuse. I suppose the abuse part is probably controlled in the agreement with TiVo to carry the banner in the first place.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Hi folks,

Thanks for your feedback and discussion here. We take it very seriously. Based on the feedback, we have removed the display of the fast forward ad from the CNET episode for now. Your unit will update the CNET show the next time it makes a connection to the TiVo service.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback and discussion here. We take it very seriously. Based on the feedback, we have removed the display of the fast forward ad from the CNET episode for now. Your unit will update the CNET show the next time it makes a connection to the TiVo service.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response Stephen.

I had downloaded the episode to see what people were talking about, but no pop-up for me. This must be why.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback and discussion here. We take it very seriously. Based on the feedback, we have removed the display of the fast forward ad from the CNET episode for now. Your unit will update the CNET show the next time it makes a connection to the TiVo service.
> 
> ...


:up::up::up:


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback and discussion here. We take it very seriously. Based on the feedback, we have removed the display of the fast forward ad from the CNET episode for now. Your unit will update the CNET show the next time it makes a connection to the TiVo service.
> 
> ...


Thank you.:up:


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Nice to see result of feedback being taken into consideration. 

To that end, I'd like to add that I LOVE the "Thumbs up to find out more" functionality, and want to see more of that.


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## Gene Plantz (Dec 31, 1999)

from CNET Tuesday:

_ 
We heard you TiVo People--- LOUD and CLEAR.

As of today, Tuesday, January 29, 2008, there is NO LONGER a popup ad during the CNET weekly TiVo show.

We received a flurry of negative emails when we got into the office Monday morning, including yours obviously, regarding this new ad. Turns out TiVo did too. So it was an easy decision to make That Norton pop up ad is gone for good.

So come back dear viewers!

All is well in TiVo land.

And thanks for letting us know.

Sincerely,
Bonnie Gannon
Managing Producer
CNETTV.com_


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

Here is the reply from my complaint to CNET:

We heard you TiVo People--- LOUD and CLEAR.

As of today, Tuesday, January 29, 2008, there is NO LONGER a popup ad during the CNET weekly TiVo show. 

We received a flurry of negative emails when we got into the office Monday morning, including yours obviously, regarding this new ad. Turns out TiVo did too. So it was an easy decision to make&#8230; That Norton pop up ad is gone for good. 

So come back dear viewers!

All is well in TiVo land. 

And thanks for letting us know. 

Sincerely,

Bonnie Gannon
Managing Producer
CNETTV.com


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## Jiffylush (Oct 31, 2006)

mazman said:


> I took a look also and am not too pleased... The good news - you don't see the ad while using the 30-second skip.


That must be why I haven't seen this, I am a chronic 30-second skipper, never FF.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks to Stephen and the folks at TiVo, and to Bonnie Gannon at CNET (I got the email too), for listening to us and doing the right thing by us. 

Time to go watch some more TiVo......


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

Thank you. I am a happy TiVoer again.
I got the email as well.
I had canceled my CNET subscription yesterday and dropped them an email explaining why. They replied to my email with the good news today.

Jim H.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Bring back the Ad!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

BlackBetty said:


> Bring back the Ad!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I was really expecting it to be an error. I can't believe anybody intentially wanted it to look like that.

-smak-


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

smak said:


> I was really expecting it to be an error. I can't believe anybody intentially wanted it to look like that.
> 
> -smak-


I have to admit I was thinking the same thing, that perhaps the pop-up was meant only for when people tried to FF through the actual ad, but may not have ever been intended to stay up while FF through the actual program... but this is all new territory, so I can't fault advertisers and advertising for trying to find new and creative ways to reach us, and expect a few kinks to be worked out along the way.

__________________
"It is not a disgrace to fail. Failing is one of the greatest arts in the world...
One fails forward toward success."
~ Charles F. Kettering (1876-1958)


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> but this is all new territory


It isn't new territory for TiVo though. They have supported these ads for more than a year. Yet, this isn't the first time they have caused issues like this one. The fact that they refuse to put in any safeguards is pretty telling. While they are getting paid by advertisers to display these ads, they still owe it to TiVo users to prevent this from happening. It isn't complicated for TiVo to recognize an ad is displaying way too long and to remove it. Yet, TiVo is leaving all the power to the advertisers without any regard to its users. Removing these buggy ads after the fact is not a real solution.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

It's quite a generous gesture though.


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

I wanted to say thank you to TiVo for listening to the subscribers of your product who use and love your product. It is nice to know that you are listening and participating in a public forum to help improve the product.



:up::up::up:


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

bicker said:


> It's quite a generous gesture though.


+1 :up:


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> It's quite a generous gesture though.


Generous? CNET pulled the pop-up ad folks - "for good" in response to "a flurry of negative emails".


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

bicker said:


> It's quite a generous gesture though.


+1 :up::up:


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Generous? CNET pulled the pop-up ad folks - "for good" in response to "a flurry of negative emails".


And some of us prefer to say "thanks", rather than continue to spank them...

To express our gratitude for going in a direction we prefer, positive re-enforcement, rather than negative.


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## Binko (Jan 26, 2008)

That CNet email was outstanding. 

I'm glad that TiVOStephen responded also. 

Well the customer has been heard.


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

Ok now that thats solved time to move on to the star ads. Please put it back the way it was. The star got my attention plenty and I regularly read it, I even thought it was a rather nice implementation. But the new oversized banner looks hideous. I don't mind the ads being in the now playing list but maybe make it so they are not what we land on if we hit the channel down button. Also why not make the ads targeted based on the shows we watch? Google has successfully done this why cant tivo. There's really no need to make the UI ugly with over zealous graphics when its more effective to have words that will catch peoples attention. Please please please tivo take my advise.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mchips said:


> I have to admit I was thinking the same thing, that perhaps the pop-up was meant only for when people tried to FF through the actual ad, but may not have ever been intended to stay up while FF through the actual program... but this is all new territory, so I can't fault advertisers and advertising for trying to find new and creative ways to reach us, and expect a few kinks to be worked out along the way.


Given that an ad is only visible for a few seconds at most during a FFed and TiVo is now trying the sound to attract attention to them and still there are not many billboard ads on broadcast content - I think this was a trial to see if the could lengthen the time. I would wager that the Cnet Tivocast has a lot of Fast forward happening in it. You just a bought a HDTV so review s of new ones has no appeall - or for me I always FF the car and GPS segments as I have no interest in that. The CNET TiVocast was probably very tempting for a FF billboard over actual content.

I am glad that CNET saw it was a line not worth crossing to put an ad over top actual content. OF course the irony is that the CNET tivocast is really a large infomercial, bottom line, since it is all about giving out info on th latest tech stuff 

PS - I am fine with the inline commercials and if they put a 5 minute long NOrton ad in the middle and had a graphic over top of that then that is how advertising works and I can FFed it or turn my attention elsewhere or interact with the ad.

to me this was all about advertising staying on their side of the line and leaving the actual content, be it whatever, alone.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> And some of us prefer to say "thanks", rather than continue to spank them...
> 
> To express our gratitude for going in a direction we prefer, positive re-enforcement, rather than negative.


So we have to say "thanks" every year now when TiVo tries this and it fails because the implementation is faulty and the users do not like it? We already went through this exact same issue with these billboard ads before. Yet, here we are 2 years later and TiVo still can't implement it right without upsetting customers.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> So we have to say "thanks" every year now when TiVo tries this and it fails because the implementation is faulty and the users do not like it? We already went through this exact same issue with these billboard ads before. Yet, here we are 2 years later and TiVo still can't implement it right without upsetting customers.


Actually, no we haven't... this is the first time this has been done, that is, FF pop-up over program content... the FF pop-ups over commercials is what has been done before, and still occurs from time to time, and I see nothing wrong with this, particularly since the ads are from the same advertiser, essentially covering up their own commercials.

I agree FF over program content, not so good... but FF over commercials, from same advertiser, as entirely within their right to cover up their own commercials with another... and kudos to TiVo for giving them that option.

But it's no wonder all companies don't have the Internet forum presence that TiVo does here... it doesn't seem to do any good to some people when they publicly respond to threads like this, as whether it's to give consumers what they want or not, it's still met by some with additional criticsm... thus, damned if they do, and damned if they don't...

I continue to thank TiVoStephen for his public response here... it _is_ appreciated by many of us here (if even not by all)... :up: So, again, thank you... 

<edit>
Btw, rainwater, you don't have to say thanks... take whatever approach you feel is most effective for you... you and I typically disagree in the approach we take, and that's probably not likely to change for either of us in the near future...  

__________________
"It is not a disgrace to fail. Failing is one of the greatest arts in the world...
One fails forward toward success."
~ Charles F. Kettering (1876-1958)


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> ...
> But it's no wonder all companies don't have the Internet forum presence that TiVo does here... it doesn't seem to do any good to some people when they publicly respond to threads like this, as whether it's to give consumers what they want or not, it's still meant by some with additional criticsm... thus, damned if they do, and damned if they don't...
> 
> I continue to thank TiVoStephen for his public response here... it _is_ appreciated by many of us here (if even not by all)... :up: So, again, thank you... .....


I haven't seen anyone say anything negative about TiVoStephen or his presence here. As far as I'm concerned he represents both the customers and his employer superbly.

The criticism leveled is aimed toward TiVo's ad policies and implementation which have just been soundly rejected by both the customers of their service (us) and a customer of their ad sales (CNET).


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

No, not typically TiVoStephen but as he points out quite often, his milieu is the TiVoCast service, not any other part of the TiVo service. There are many cases where TiVo employees are unfairly abused here in the forum.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> No, not typically TiVoStephen but as he points out quite often, his milieu is the TiVoCast service, not any other part of the TiVo service. There are many cases where TiVo employees are unfairly abused here in the forum.


Would that other parts of the company were represented and administered as well as TiVoCast.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Wait. Go back to what you wrote, Roy: "The criticism leveled is aimed toward TiVo's ad policies and implementation." Go back and read the threads I alluded to. (I know you know the ones I'm referring to, because you were there.) The employees were attacked, not the policies they were defending. It was despicable behavior on the part of members here.

Stephen has a great job. He gets to offer a service anew, without the trappings of having to turn a profit the first year. His job is going to get harder and harder as he will need to justify the expenses of his unit more and more.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> Wait. Go back to what you wrote, Roy: "The criticism leveled is aimed toward TiVo's ad policies and implementation." *Bull*. Go back and read the threads I alluded to. (I know you know the ones I'm referring to, because you were there.) The employees were attacked, not the policies they were defending. It was despicable behavior on the part of members here.
> 
> Stephen has a great job. He gets to offer a service anew, without the trappings of having to turn a profit the first year. His job is going to get harder and harder as he will need to justify the expenses of his unit more and more. I wouldn't be surprised to see some self-centered yahoos ripping into him in the years to come.


My comment was in reference to items in *this *thread. I don't dispute that certain employees were criticized in other threads on other topics.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I haven't seen anyone say anything negative about TiVoStephen or his presence here. As far as I'm concerned he represents both the customers and his employer superbly.
> 
> The criticism leveled is aimed toward TiVo's ad policies and implementation which have just been soundly rejected by both the customers of their service (us) and a customer of their ad sales (CNET).





RoyK said:


> Generous? CNET pulled the pop-up ad folks - "for good" in response to "a flurry of negative emails".


So, you then don't feel that deserves gratitude?

First, glad to see you show some recognition of TiVoStephen's efforts, but I guess that's where you and I part ways, as I see his response as not just on his own behalf, but also on the behalf of TiVo (which is comprised of the people behind that entity), and that the action taken by both TiVo (the entity and the people behind it) and CNET deserves an expression of gratitude, rather than continued criticism, or taken for granted as the only expected outcome...

They corrected that "implementation", specifically the Norton FF pop-up, yet you and rainwater seem to continue to criticize them for having done it in the first place, _seemingly _in response to those of us showing gratitude for having removed it...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> So, you then don't feel that deserves gratitude?
> 
> First, glad to see you show some recognition of TiVoStephen's efforts, but I guess that's where you and I part ways, as I see his response as not just on his own behalf, but also on the behalf of TiVo (which is comprised of the people behind that entity), and that the action taken by both TiVo (the entity and the people behind it) and CNET deserves an expression of gratitude, rather than continued criticism, or taken for granted as the only expected outcome...


I am grateful to CNET for pulling the ad.



mchips said:


> They corrected that "implementation", specifically the Norton FF pop-up, yet you and rainwater seem to continue to criticize them for having done it in the first place,


I'm glad you understand. ("them" = TiVO)



mchips said:


> _seemingly _in response to those of us showing gratitude for having removed it...


Gratitude (toward TiVo) for what? CNET pulled the ad - TiVo removed it.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Gratitude (toward TiVo) for what? CNET pulled the ad - TiVo removed it.


For what? For their quick response, for one thing... and for taking the time to respond to this thread.

Btw, CNET didn't pull the ad, per se... the advertising is still there, beginning, end, and Thumbs Up for more info (which I'm fine with)... they pulled the FF pop-up over program content, which is what it appears most people objected to (rather than the ad in and of itself).


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> Actually, no we haven't... this is the first time this has been done, that is, FF pop-up over program content.


No, this isn't the first time. They tested this briefly, and there was a huge uproar especially when the popups didn't disappear when the program started. TiVo still can't implement it correctly 2 years later, so I do not have any faith in this ad program.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mchips said:


> For what? For their quick response, for one thing...


I expect that this:

"Molly and I had nothing to do with the ad but our boss didn't hesitate to kill it, and fast."

quoted from a CNET email to etz -- which I know you read because you quoted it here -- had more than a little bit to do with that quick response.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> No, this isn't the first time. They tested this briefly, and there was a huge uproar especially when the popups didn't disappear when the program started. TiVo still can't implement it correctly 2 years later, so I do not have any faith in this ad program.


the first incident you mentioned was indeed a mistake and noted as susch by TiVo. A tag was not set ptoperly in the broadcast stream.

I still believe the FF billboard over the content in Cnet TIVOCAST was deliberate design as part of effort to see how far the ads can be pushed and thus create more ad revenue for Cnet and TiVo.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the first incident you mentioned was indeed a mistake and noted as susch by TiVo. A tag was not set ptoperly in the broadcast stream.
> 
> I still believe the FF billboard over the content in Cnet TIVOCAST was deliberate design as part of effort to see how far the ads can be pushed and thus create more ad revenue for Cnet and TiVo.


What a shocker, a tag wasn't set properly this time either to dismiss the ad. This is my point. TiVo can't figure a way to implement this properly. So they use users as guinea pigs and piss them off. That is not the way to implement a feature that most people are already going to hate. You would think 2 years later, they could of built a safeguard system in place.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I expect that this:
> 
> "Molly and I had nothing to do with the ad but our boss didn't hesitate to kill it, and fast." quoted from a CNET email to etz -- which I know you read because you quoted it here -- had more than a little bit to do with that quick response.


Yes, I read it, but you and I are both reading two different things into that quote... and it looks like we're going to be splitting hairs on this one.

Your interpretation, based on your previous posts, is that CNET "rejected" TiVo's implementation... my interpretation is that CNET responded to its customers and removed the FF pop-up over program content, which to CNET, would be the most important part, that is, the program content. No one here knows for sure what all, and whom all, went into that entire decision-making and implementation process of this specific TiVoCast, or whom had final approval of its implementation as originally published.

CNET did not lay blame on TiVo, in any of the CNET responses that people have posted here...

And I did not say CNET did not respond quickly (as I repeatedly showed gratitude to both), only that TiVo also did, as evident by TiVoStephen's response... whether or not you want to show any gratitude or continue to criticize and hold TiVo fully responsible is up to you...

I continue to thank TiVo, TiVoStephen, CNET, and all those involved between the two... the pop-up is gone... yay!  :up:

I couldn't care less why TiVo responded quickly (whether it was CNET, us, or both), only that they did, and I therefore applaud them for it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> What a shocker, a tag wasn't set properly this time either to dismiss the ad. This is my point. TiVo can't figure a way to implement this properly. So they use users as guinea pigs and piss them off. That is not the way to implement a feature that most people are already going to hate. You would think 2 years later, they could of built a safeguard system in place.


I still doubt that. 
I have seen quite a few billboard ads over commercials in broadcast content and maybe one other besides the infamous first incident where the overlay did not go away. TiVoStephen was quick during that infamous first mistake to say it was a mistake and TiVo would fix it - Why would he not say the same again if it was a mistake?

But What safegaurd system are you thinking of for a missed tag?


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> What a shocker, a tag wasn't set properly this time either to dismiss the ad. This is my point. TiVo can't figure a way to implement this properly...


I disagree... 2 years ago, in its infancy, some may have experienced the pop-up not going away, if the closing tag was missed... the two, then and now, are not entirely the same, whether intentional or not, which of course it just pure speculation at this point... or do you have some inside information the rest of us are not privy to?

I have seen a number of instances where it has worked exactly as intended, only staying up for the commercial or advertisement it was intended for, so to say they can't get it right, imho, is an unfair statement... but then I don't expect perfection either...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> I disagree... 2 years ago, in its infancy, some may have experienced the pop-up not going away, if the closing tag was missed... the two, then and now, are not entirely the same, whether intentional or not, which of course it just pure speculation at this point... or do you have some inside information the rest of us are not privy to?


Of course the issue isn't exactly the same. My point is the system is buggy and there is nothing to stop an advertiser from screwing with users. The fact that TiVo doesn't protect its users from this shows they are at a point where they don't care one bit about users and are desperate to take any ad money they can get. The only reason this ad got pulled had nothing to do with users complaining here but the content producer got upset.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Of course the issue isn't exactly the same. My point is the system is buggy and there is nothing to stop an advertiser from screwing with users. The fact that TiVo doesn't protect its users from this shows they are at a point where they don't care one bit about users and are desperate to take any ad money they can get. The only reason this ad got pulled had nothing to do with users complaining here but the content producer got upset.


I disagree entirely with your interpretation of these events, as stated in my previous reply to Roy, so I won't bother repeating it here, other than to say that your interpretation is just that, one interpretation, and is not the only interpretation, especially that TiVo "doesn't care one bit" when TiVoStephen clearly stated in his reply to this thread that they do "take it very seriously."


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> I disagree entirely with your interpretation of these events, as stated in my previous reply to Roy, so I won't bother repeating it here, other than to say that your interpretation is just that, one interpretation, and is not the only interpretation, especially that TiVo "doesn't care one bit" when TiVoStephen clearly stated in his reply to this thread that they do "take it very seriously."


Yes, they take it seriously when an advertiser or content producer complains. However, my point is they need to start looking from the users perspective. This feature should be implemented in a way that doesn't allow advertisers to screw with users recordings. Personally, I don't care if there are popup ads or not. However, they MUST be implemented correctly and TiVo is ultimately responsible. If they are going to continue to give control to advertisers and none to the user, then this will continue to occur.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

rainwater said:


> However, my point is they need to start looking from the users perspective. This feature should be implemented in a way that doesn't allow advertisers to screw with users recordings. Personally, I don't care if there are popup ads or not. However, they MUST be implemented correctly and TiVo is ultimately responsible. If they are going to continue to give control to advertisers and none to the user, then this will continue to occur.


So, are you saying Norton, as the advertiser in question, is responsible for the pop-up, that CNET and/or TiVo were unaware that Norton had done it, assuming they had the unchecked control that you believe they do?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mchips said:


> So, are you saying Norton, as the advertiser in question, is responsible for the pop-up, that CNET and/or TiVo were unaware that Norton had done it, assuming they had the unchecked control that you believe they do?


Of course CNet and TiVo are aware of the advertiser. Why would they not be? TiVo can remove these popups and authorize them. However, TiVo is not correctly controlling the data that displays these. Otherwise, there would not be these problems. I believe TiVo has a deal with NBC for NBC to encode this data in the commercial streams. I can't say how TiVoCast works, but NBC is able to control these ads. It of course requires that the advertiser pay for Showcase ad but the actual displaying of the ad can be set by the advertiser. The system is obviously flawed. There is no debating that.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> The system is obviously flawed. There is no debating that.


there are tags used to control the display of the ad. Perhaps the content owner wants the billboard to display whenever the content is FFed - so how is TiVo supposed to know and safegaurd the display? ESP?

This is kind of like saying that the ISP had configured a DHCP server with incorrect IP numbers and it did not work. Should they do something to safegaurd against that? sure but it would not be a redesign of the DHCP application as there was no flaw in that design. It would be a look at processes and to change them to ensure such a misconfiguration does not happen again. Also, I doubt the ISP would have misconfigured the IP out of lack of concern for customers

Further - you are still operating under the pure guess that CNET did not want the billboard over actual content when FFing. They may well have asked for exactly that and the ad displayed perfectly as designed. You do not know.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> there are tags used to control the display of the ad. Perhaps the content owner wants the billboard to display whenever the content is FFed - so how is TiVo supposed to know and safegaurd the display? ESP?


For one, a single ad should not be allowed to be displayed for more than 30-60secs of content. It isn't hard to force the advertiser to renew the ad if the commercial is longer than that. So TiVo could automatically hide ads after a set time. This would stop most issues since advertisers can only add the data to the stream when they have control (so not during the actual programming). There are obviously more advanced safeguards (like requiring the data to be sent every few seconds) to verify the ads are displaying in the correct context.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> For one, a single ad should not be allowed to be displayed for more than 30-60secs of content.


so they would require a tag be placed every 30-60 seconds in the content if the ad is to be displayed at any FF time. Ok seems to leave more room for worse misconfiguration but so be it.

Will you now answer the question on how you know the CNET incidnet was a glitch instead of intentional?

BTW - I am dead set against billboard displaying over actual content. I sometimes watch sports at 1x FF to look ofr the play making aprts versus the grind it out parts. so this is no defense of billboards over actual content. That would indeed convince me to drop that content source.

I cnacleed my season pass to Chuck and let the network know it was because of the annoying overlays the broadcaster did around Christmas.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so they would require a tag be placed every 30-60 seconds in the content if the ad is to be displayed at any FF time. Ok seems to leave more room for worse misconfiguration but so be it.


You are assuming the advertiser is also the content provider. In most cases it will not be so the advertiser will have no control during the actual content.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Will you now answer the question on how you know the CNET incidnet was a glitch instead of intentional?


If it is intentional that TiVo is going to allow advertisers to display ads during FF during actual content, then they can kiss my subscriptions goodbye when they run up.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> My comment was in reference to items in *this *thread. I don't dispute that certain employees were criticized in other threads on other topics.


My point was how the manner and context of those other threads color what we can expect from threads like this.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

rainwater said:


> If it is intentional that TiVo is going to allow advertisers to display ads during FF during actual content, then they can kiss my subscriptions goodbye when they run up.


And that is their choice, and should be based on their knowledge, experience and professional forecast of how such a decision will affect their owners' financial interests long-term.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> You are assuming the advertiser is also the content provider. In most cases it will not be so the advertiser will have no control during the actual content.
> 
> If it is intentional that TiVo is going to allow advertisers to display ads during FF during actual content, then they can kiss my subscriptions goodbye when they run up.


it is not TiVo making such a call - that is your disconnect. TiVo has provided a tool of a billboard that can popup when FFing. The design also allows for where in the media stram the billboard can be shown.

TiVo is selling that ability to content owners (within legal restraints). In the spcific case of TiVocast - CNET owns the content and they decide what advertisers they get and how the ads look and work in the case of TiVo interactive.

I am not sure on the legal aspects of TiVo not allowing a content owner to display the billboard as the content owner wishes. This is no defense of TiVo - I will stop suscribing to content that does this and hope that TiVo does all it can to keep this from happening since - like you - I do not want billboards over actual content.

You do need to realize though that it would be CNETs call on how the ad displayed overtop of their content. TiVo and CNET would sell the ad to NORTON representatives based on how visible the ad is.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> it is not TiVo making such a call - that is your disconnect. TiVo has provided a tool of a billboard that can popup when FFing. The design also allows for where in the media stram the billboard can be shown.


TiVo is providing the service. For them to say they wash their hands and have no responsibility is a bunch of bull. There are ways to control it, yet TiVo is intent on letting advertisers have control over your TiVo and freely display banner ads throughout an entire program. The only thing TiVo will do is remove the ad afterwards. If that is the road they are taking, then TiVo is going to be losing another customer. I have no problem with enhancing commercials. But when TiVo starts interfering with my ability to watch TV, then that is when I will stop using it. I still have a Moxi box that isn't in use and despite its problems, I will gladly switch my boxes back to my Charter DVRs if this is the road Tivo is taking.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am glad that CNET saw it was a line not worth crossing to put an ad over top actual content. OF course the irony is that the CNET tivocast is really a large infomercial, bottom line, since it is all about giving out info on th latest tech stuff


...which proves that people are willing to watch an ad if it's about something they are interested in.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> TiVo is providing the service. For them to say they wash their hands and have no responsibility is a bunch of bull. There are ways to control it, yet TiVo is intent on letting advertisers have control over your TiVo and freely display banner ads throughout an entire program. The only thing TiVo will do is remove the ad afterwards. If that is the road they are taking, then TiVo is going to be losing another customer. I have no problem with enhancing commercials. But when TiVo starts interfering with my ability to watch TV, then that is when I will stop using it. I still have a Moxi box that isn't in use and despite its problems, I will gladly switch my boxes back to my Charter DVRs if this is the road Tivo is taking.


you forgot the other part of my post where I basically agree with what you replied


ZeoTiVo said:


> I am not sure on the legal aspects of TiVo not allowing a content owner to display the billboard as the content owner wishes. This is no defense of TiVo - I will stop suscribing to content that does this and hope that TiVo does all it can to keep this from happening since - like you - I do not want billboards over actual content.
> 
> You do need to realize though that it would be CNETs call on how the ad displayed overtop of their content. TiVo and CNET would sell the ad to NORTON representatives based on how visible the ad is.


PS - TiVo is intent on generating ad revenue while not loosing too many subcribers that it would be a net loss. The how of it is the nature of advertsing having to be noticed and the advrtisers spending the money with TiVo trying to find that noticeable place so they get the ROI they are looking for.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> BTW - I am dead set against billboard displaying over actual content. I sometimes watch sports at 1x FF to look ofr the play making aprts versus the grind it out parts. so this is no defense of billboards over actual content. That would indeed convince me to drop that content source.
> 
> I cnacleed my season pass to Chuck and let the network know it was because of the annoying overlays the broadcaster did around Christmas.


I noticed the most recent episodes of Chuck did not have them (and the station bug was much more subtle and less annoying).


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

javabird said:


> I noticed the most recent episodes of Chuck did not have them (and the station bug was much more subtle and less annoying).


It was probably a big Christams Gift season push - theye were selling DVDs of shows with the overlays. Still I am not going back to Chuck as the one show I watched fairly regularly that was really bad with the overlays. I hope it gets cancelled.


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I hope it gets cancelled.


NO! Don't say that!  

I enjoy the show, and while I don't like the overlays either, if I really like a show, I keep watching, and Chuck is a show I really like. I feel the best way to express discontent with an overlay, is to not cater to whatever the overlay is promoting...

Low ratings of Chuck would more likely tell them people don't like the show, rather than any discontent with the overlays... if the overlays get results, the overlays will stay, regardless of how poor a show, e.g., Chuck, does in the ratings.

But then if you don't have a Nielsen box, it's probably a moot point for you...  (as advertisers don't yet consider TiVo'd programs as a valuable advertising avenue, seeing as people brag about skipping those very advertisments)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mchips said:


> NO! Don't say that!
> 
> I enjoy the show, and while I don't like the overlays either, if I really like a show, I keep watching, and Chuck is a show I really like. I feel the best way to express discontent with an overlay, is to not cater to whatever the overlay is promoting...


 true. I did also like the show. Thought it a clever mix of serious and silly. 
I did contact NBC and told them i would not watch the show, and not use the NBC web site anymore nor buy DVDs there and not get Chuck DVDs either.
That is what got me the most - the fact that the big ugly overlay was to promote the NBC website and sell DVDs. 

So I did what I needed to feel better, enjoy the show


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

And you took your discontent directly to the source... that has an impact as well, as networks don't base decisions entirely on Nielsen ratings alone, hence Jericho making its comeback, which I'm looking forward to... :up:

Plus, having taken your discontent with the overlays directly to the network, it's clear your discontent is with the overlays, and not the program itself. I don't fault you for it, but I don't want it to be canceled either.

Everyone tune in to Jericho, though, please, especially if you're a Nielsen family...  (Jericho's new season premieres 2/12, CBS)

<edit>
Ah, Zeo, perhaps Jericho can take the place of Chuck... it's on a different network...


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Chuck's on Unbox.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mchips said:


> <edit>
> Ah, Zeo, perhaps Jericho can take the place of Chuck... it's on a different network...


NUTS!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

rainwater said:


> TiVo is providing the service.


TiVo provides service to both subscribers and to advertisers.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bicker said:


> TiVo provides service to both subscribers and to advertisers.


Yes, so what is your point?


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## mchips (Feb 21, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> NUTS!


I see you're already familiar with it...


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

mchips said:


> .
> Everyone tune in to Jericho, though, please, especially if you're a Nielsen family...  (Jericho's new season premieres 2/12, CBS)


Yep. Still have a season pass set up for it, and looking forward to the new season.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

rainwater said:


> Yes, so what is your point?


That serving either exclusively is not what they do.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bicker said:


> That serving either exclusively is not what they do.


Again, I agree.


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