# Battlebots Season 5 - 2020 - 2021



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Starts tonight on Discovery.

BattleBots

*The ultimate robot-fighting series returns for an all-new metal crunching season, premiering Thursday, December 3 at 8PM ET/PT on Discovery Channel in the US.

After production was halted earlier this year due to COVID-19, BATTLEBOTS is back for a brand-new season. Sixty teams from across the globe converged for the hardest hitting, unremitting, steel splitting tournament in combat robotics. Unproven rookies, up-and-coming stars and legends in the game throw their fearsome fighting machines into the BattleBox for a chance to walk away with the preeminent prize in robotic sport: The Giant Nut.
*


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I thought the "I like big bots. I cannot lie." commercial was funny the first couple of times I saw it. Yesterday I was watching the Discovery Channel and that commercial played seemingly at every commercial break. Now I'm sick of it.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Glad to see it back!


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm happy to see it again. I enjoy some light hearted entertainment. And they did manage to put in a few unique bots, SMEEEEEEeee especially. It's nice to see something other than vertical spinner, horizontal spinner, lifter, and wedge. Those do seem to be the best designs but they get boring after a while.

My new favorite is "Rusty". One guy picking up junk to build a bot. I will feel bad when he runs up against a power bot. It ain't going to be pretty...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> *After production was halted earlier this year due to COVID-19, BATTLEBOTS is back for a brand-new season.*


Does that mean there was a partial season thrown away, or we're now seeing the partial season 'finished' by the new recording? I don't think the latter, since it was clearly always COVID-inspired.

I watched it, though I have almost all of the previous seasons on my Tivo (I think I watched the first two eps of the revival season then for some reason stopped.. When I watch them, I'll have to confirm I have all eps, since I know at least one ep says it's season 9, but it's really the 2nd to last S4 episode, at least based on the title). I started watching the whole thing at 1.7x, then realized I was losing the enjoyment of the actual competitions (some reality shows work fine IMO at that speed).. so I went to 1.9x for the non-competition parts and normal speed for the actual competition. Makes the show much more enjoyable!

Though when was this actually recorded? I'm amazed they didn't have a short Grant Imihara memorial or at least dedicate it to him in the credits.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

According to Wikipedia, filming began on 10/3/2020. 

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. However, I was disappointed how many of the battles ended in fairly quick knockouts. I guess that's not unexpected with the odd year this has been. I doubt they had as much practice this year. SMEEEEEE...EEE was cool; it'll be fun to see it go up against a more typically sized bot.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I agree about the quick knockouts. I wish if one was thrown from the field of play, they would do something like put it back in play but award the other team a couple extra points.

I sure do love when the pieces start flying. Seeing one robot rip another apart is cool. 

And I agree about Rusty. lol. He isn't going to do well against the more destructive ones.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Shark + SMEEEE were both interesting, but the actual battle was boring.

I should go look up the actual rules.. it sure seemed like these things were WAY bigger than they were in the previous BattleBots incarnation (and even in the first 2 eps of S1 of this run that I saw so far).


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

2019: - There is no maximum size limit; however, your bot (or combination of bots) must be able tostart the match from completely within the space of an 8' x 8' square.
2020: - Size Limits The primary bot size limit is that a Team's bot (or the combination of a Multi-Bot's robots) has to start the match from completely within the space of an 8' x 8' square. Any bot must also be able to be moved through the 8' x 8' Arena entry doors without disassembly. BattleBots officials may allow limited exceptions to the floor space limit if you can convincingly explain on your application why your bot needs a larger space

Most of the rules have an explicit or implied "convince us why violating this rule would be cool, and we might allow it". I suspect Smeeeee fell into that category.

That said, battlebots used to have weight classes which led to a variety of sizes. The current competition is somewhere between the original Heavyweight and Super-heavyweight classes, and those bots get pretty large. They're somewhat deceptive to look at on camera without reference, only when you see them being being wheeled in in person can you get a true sense of their size.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I do believe there is a maximum weight limit you cannot exceed that are part of the rules.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

250 comes to mind, but I'm not sure.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I think it's 250 lbs as well in total across everything. So if you have extra little bots or drones, they are counted into the total as well. Several times the teams had to switch between a heavier weapon and lighter armor combination between matches.

And for those in Canada, it airs a couple of weeks later on Sunday. I think we see it on the 20th.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Worf said:


> I think it's 250 lbs as well in total across everything.


Definitely total. They mention that when there are multi-bots.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

I got curious after reading this discussion, so I looked it up. According to the rules (which are really worth reading if you're a fan), 250 lbs is the limit. There are some details around the totals, spoilerized for length: 


Spoiler



Section 2. Weight Limits a. Maximum Weight The maximum allowed weight is 250.0 pounds ready to fight. There is no minimum weight. Flying bots ("Flybots") are limited to a maximum of 10.0 pounds each, ready to fight. Exceptions to the Flybot weight limit may be made on a case-by-case basis, depending upon the construction and configuration of the Flybot. We are concerned about damage to the Arena sides and ceiling. Your bot's final official weight will be measured on our certified scales at the Tournament. Any other weight measurements you have taken, at home or otherwise, will not be applicable. Note that scales can vary by 5% or more -- if your bot is overweight, you will have very little time at the Tournament to correct it. We recommend that you design your bot underweight and bring ballast. b. Weight Exclusions • Safety covers and restraints do not count towards the weight of your bot. • If you (or BattleBots) install one or two small cameras on your bot, the weight of such cameras will not count towards the weight limit of your bot. • If BattleBots installs a telemetry package into your bot, the weight of the telemetry package will not count towards the weight limit of your bot. c. Additional Decoration Weight Bots can have additional decoration that increases the robot weight over the 250 pound limit, subject to the following: 1) The bot without the decoration cannot weigh over the 250 pound limit. 2) The decoration itself cannot weigh more than 10 pounds. 3) The decoration cannot protect the robot or serve as a weapon. 4) The decoration cannot easily become a fouling hazard. 5) The decoration must be removable with simple tools in 5 minutes or less. 6) Prior to a match, any opposing Team has the right to require removal of the decoration. 7) BattleBots officials can require removal of the decoration at any time for any reason



Even more interesting is they have weight exclusions up to 500 lbs for non-wheeled robots, because they are trying to promote their use.


Spoiler



Section 12. Non-Wheeled Robots BattleBots wants to encourage interesting alternative forms of bot mobility. Therefore, bots that move around without the use of wheels may be allowed an additional weight advantage. a. "Walker" Bots Bots that move around the Arena solely by walking ("Walkers") are allowed an upper weight limit of 500.0 pounds. To be considered as a Walker, the bot has to move using only articulated legs. Specific requirements for a Walker are: • It uses 2 or more legs that move forward and backward and lift off the floor. • There are no additional wheels or skids that touch the floor, or that can support any part of the robot weight. • The walking motion is independent of, and cannot depend upon, the weapon operation. • The Walker meets all of the other bot design requirements (weapon, size, etc.). • A Walker cannot be part of a Multi-Bot combination. Regardless of the requirements specified above, it's entirely up to the discretion of BattleBots to determine if a bot qualifies as a Walker. b. Alternative Mobility If your Team has a unique and interesting mobility design concept that is neither wheeled nor a Walker, BattleBots may -- on a case-by-case basis -- allow a maximum weight greater than 250 lbs., but less than 500 lbs. Contact BattleBots with a basic design proposal, and be able to defend why any additional weight above 250 lb. is warranted and will allow fair competition against wheeled and Walker bots. Approval of a basic design proposal does not relieve a Team of the "Pre-Approval and Acceptance" requirements below.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Makes sense. Alternative forms of locomotion typically require a lot more weight to actually do things. Walkers need to armor up the legs and joints or they'll be particularly vulnerable. 

I can't think of many other forms of locomotion that one could use. Maybe a jumping bot? Rockets? Jumping might be a fun one if the bot can accurate jump onto another bot. 250lbs of robot landing on opt of another robot can do some serious damage.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

The thing I found most interesting about this season (well the first episode) is that since they can't have fans, they made space for the other teams to watch, so you get the "crowd" experience. It's much better than piped in crowd noise (though I do suspect there's some of that as well). All in all a fun week and it was fun seeing Tombstone sent out of the playing surface


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> All in all a fun week and it was fun seeing Tombstone sent out of the playing surface


I do hate it when someone gets stuck and allows the opponent an unimpeded shot. I would have preferred them to beat each other up a bit more.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

eddyj said:


> I do hate it when someone gets stuck and allows the opponent an unimpeded shot. I would have preferred them to beat each other up a bit more.


I liked it mostly because Ray Billings is so smug that any time he gets his, it's a good thing in my book


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I liked it mostly because Ray Billings is so smug that any time he gets his, it's a good thing in my book


He plays up the "heel" so so well. I'm sure he's a super nice guy but just loves playing the villain


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> He plays up the "heel" so so well. I'm sure he's a super nice guy but just loves playing the villain


That's my impression too.

edit: From a Reddit AMA


> Bronco gonna buck you up
> Ray, just wanted to say Tombstone is probably the most fun bot to watch due to the sheer damage that it causes to other bots, the arena, and itself. As a fan of pro wrestling, I enjoy that you have been portrayed as the villain. How do you feel about being portrayed that way? Also, as someone who simply enjoys robot combat but doesn't have the technical sense to get into this, it's really cool that you drop by here so often to comment.
> 
> HardcoreRay
> ...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't know if I've ever seen Captain Shrederator win a match. If I have, I've forgotten it because it hasn't been recent.

I kinda like it when Tombstone loses.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

My favorite BattleBots action is seeing one of the vertical spinners or flippers really connecting and sending the opponent flying several feet into the air. Bronco had some really exciting moments in that regard.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't know if I've ever seen Captain Shrederator win a match. If I have, I've forgotten it because it hasn't been recent.
> 
> I kinda like it when Tombstone loses.


Didn't they say that Shred hadn't won since 2015 or something like that?


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

moyekj said:


> My favorite BattleBots action is seeing one of the vertical spinners or flippers really connecting and sending the opponent flying several feet into the air. Bronco had some really exciting moments in that regard.


And I liked Hydra from last season as a new powerful flipper - also good for launching bots. But this year's team whyachi bot - fusion - doesn't seem like anywhere as good a design.

I haven't dug into the rules to see if it's legal but especially for flippers especially I tend to think they'd benefit from a limited amount of on-bot sensors. 
Even the best teams mis-time the activate a lot of the time. If the bot could detect when something was over the flipper and only activate then (assuming it was still receiving a "weapons free" signal from the radio) it's have less near misses. (Though you'd still want a fire now command for self-righting or if the semi-automatic system is damaged or misbehaving)

That's also a problem with hammer bots - but they seem to ineffective when they do hit that I don't know that missing less would actually help them any.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> That's also a problem with hammer bots - but they seem to ineffective when they do hit that I don't know that missing less would actually help them any.


All these bots that attack from the top claim "that's where other bots are weak". But when fighting them, all the "weak on top" bots just add extra protection for that match.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Jonathan_S said:


> And I liked Hydra from last season as a new powerful flipper - also good for launching bots. But this year's team whyachi bot - fusion - doesn't seem like anywhere as good a design.
> 
> I haven't dug into the rules to see if it's legal but especially for flippers especially I tend to think they'd benefit from a limited amount of on-bot sensors.
> Even the best teams mis-time the activate a lot of the time. If the bot could detect when something was over the flipper and only activate then (assuming it was still receiving a "weapons free" signal from the radio) it's have less near misses. (Though you'd still want a fire now command for self-righting or if the semi-automatic system is damaged or misbehaving)


 Agreed that would be very beneficial, but suspect that type of thing is against the rules since the competition organizers I think also are trying to stress good robot operator manual control as a big factor. Otherwise the deep pocket teams could just add a whole bunch of electronics to their bots and have an unfair advantage.



> That's also a problem with hammer bots - but they seem to ineffective when they do hit that I don't know that missing less would actually help them any.


 Yes, I never understood the point of the hammer weapons as they very rarely do anything effective. I haven't seen the fire and saw weapons be very effective either.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

There has to be limit of the fire right? Otherwise just have a, acetylene torch or something like that and literally just melt stuff


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

moyekj said:


> Yes, I never understood the point of the hammer weapons as they very rarely do anything effective. I haven't seen the fire and saw weapons be very effective either.


Every once in a while fire seems to do some internal damage after another weapon has opened some gaps in the other bot. But it seems most effective when you can hold the other bot in the flames for a relatively long time. So it's quite situational. You need a bot capable of pinning the target bot (clamping/lifting it, or highsiding it against the box wall), have damage to its shell that creates an opening, and then have your fire bathe the target for the maximum pinning time (IIRC 30 seconds).

But that's a very uncommon set of circumstances. Mostly I think the fire's there to try to wow the crowd or impress the judges if you can't get a knockout. And, as such, doesn't seem worth the volume or weight (not to mention that an unlucky hit can set your own bot on fire far more effectively than you'll ever do to another bot)


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> There has to be limit of the fire right? Otherwise just have a, acetylene torch or something like that and literally just melt stuff


Yeah, they seem to keep it pretty mild - and for the longest time battlebots didn't allow fire weapons at all. Some of that may be because you'd need wildly different defenses if bots were able to be running around with acetylene torches or plasma cutters and it'd lead to fights that were a lot more boring to watch if all the bots are devoting half their weight to ablative armor to resist torches.

But also they need to keep the weapons toned down to the point that they can't breach the arena walls - wouldn't be good if a welding torch bot got flipped torch first against the wall and burned through its Lexan near the drivers, judges, or commentators! (I'm sure their insurance company would have serious objections to even the slimmest possibility of that)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I realize nobody cares, but I actually didn't have all of the previous seasons still on my TiVo. (I may have in the past, but sometime in the last year or two I lost a lot of recordings when trying to transfer a show BACK to my TiVo -- it gave a false huge size and thus Tivo preemptively nuked tons of stuff)..

but what I have there were really (seemingly complete haven't checked for sure) season 3 onwards.. but the episodes are _mostly_ marked as season 1.. stupid bad Tivo data. (I confirmed with epguides.com), and it's the Fight Night episodes I'm currently watching (along with the new ones every week).. so it really is S3. But most of that season are called S1 on my TiVo.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> He plays up the "heel" so so well. I'm sure he's a super nice guy but just loves playing the villain


I'm going to believe that as well. I think he is talking trash cause it's just fun to do with no actual malice behind it. The real telling point to me is that when he loses, he doesn't whine about it and gives props to the other bot. Win with style, lose with grace...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Didn't they say that Shred hadn't won since 2015 or something like that?


Makes me wonder why they keep bringing back a non competitive tomato can like Shrederator every year.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Makes me wonder why they keep bringing back a non competitive tomato can like Shrederator every year.


I think one of recent episodes mentioned that incantations of that bot has been in BattleBots competition for a long time - way before the event was televised, and used to be successful, so it's probably "grandfathered in" at this point.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Makes me wonder why they keep bringing back a non competitive tomato can like Shrederator every year.


Comic book tie in? (Capt America and all that)


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> Makes me wonder why they keep bringing back a non competitive tomato can like Shrederator every year.


And Shrederator at least has some exciting matches - even if it often ends up damaging itself more than the other bot. Blacksmith is more of a surprise to keep returning as it doesn't win much and its hammer weapon is far less exciting that the massive impacts from colliding with a full body spinner.

Plus just having a full body spinner or two in the field forces some interesting compromises on bot design (in a way a hammer bot doesn't) because a team can't just assume that better driving will let them dodge all hits. You basically can't attack a full body spinner without being able to take that hit in return. So even if they're not winning much you'd still want one or two in the mix.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I would prefer if they had a minimal set of rules. A weight limit, and a ban on things that are too dangerous to the people just outside the arena. Beyond that, anything goes. That should result in a lot more diversity and more creativity by the designers.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I would prefer if they had a minimal set of rules. A weight limit, and a ban on things that are too dangerous to the people just outside the arena. Beyond that, anything goes. That should result in a lot more diversity and more creativity by the designers.


Then entangling robots would be the norm, and it would quickly get pretty boring.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

eddyj said:


> Then entangling robots would be the norm, and it would quickly get pretty boring.


Nah, if that happened then they would use their anti-entanglement weapons.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

You have to remember that Battlebots is a sport, and the key element of sport is spectacle.

Non-competitive bots that generate a lot of spectacle is a good thing. People want to see bots get tossed about or sent flying across the arena even if in the end the bot ends up losing. Unconventional bots do the same as well.

They don't televise all the matches, either, and you can bet the more boring ones simply aren't aired to avoid boring the audience to death. It's probably also why a lot of instant-knockouts don't happen - but the contestants tease it because a match that's over in a couple of seconds makes for really boring TV. Remember the TV audience probably already went through several minutes of ads and a whole build up as the match start. A match over in a few seconds isn't worth that build up and people get annoyed.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Worf said:


> You have to remember that Battlebots is a sport, and the key element of sport is spectacle.
> 
> Non-competitive bots that generate a lot of spectacle is a good thing. People want to see bots get tossed about or sent flying across the arena even if in the end the bot ends up losing. Unconventional bots do the same as well.
> 
> They don't televise all the matches, either, and you can bet the more boring ones simply aren't aired to avoid boring the audience to death. It's probably also why a lot of instant-knockouts don't happen - but the contestants tease it because a match that's over in a couple of seconds makes for really boring TV. Remember the TV audience probably already went through several minutes of ads and a whole build up as the match start. A match over in a few seconds isn't worth that build up and people get annoyed.


Of course once they get into the playoff bracket they have to show all the matches - even the 15 second knock out ones. But yeah, during the "regular season" they can pick and choose which matches to show.

Still, I bet if one of the major names suffered a quick knockout they'd find a reason to show that match (especially if it was to an unknown). It's the newcomers that most often seem to get cut. (And it helps that they film the entire season before anything airs - so they know which new bots make the bracket before picking the fights to air - letting them drop the fights between two no-names that fail to make the bracket - but show the fights from newcomers that make it to their "post season")


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

remember I'm currently watching the S3 episodes (fight night). There are more fire thrower kind of weapons on these bots than I remember. Is it against the rules to do a molotov cocktail type weapon? (or whatever the proper term for -- spit fuel THEN light it on fire -- is)

There was even one in the ep I watched yesterday (I think the first of the champ rounds), with two serious fire breathers against each other.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Worf said:


> They don't televise all the matches, either, and you can bet the more boring ones simply aren't aired to avoid boring the audience to death. It's probably also why a lot of instant-knockouts don't happen - but the contestants tease it because a match that's over in a couple of seconds makes for really boring TV. Remember the TV audience probably already went through several minutes of ads and a whole build up as the match start. A match over in a few seconds isn't worth that build up and people get annoyed.


I'm amused that this was on my mind last night as we got shown a couple of instant-knockout matches


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> And Shrederator at least has some exciting matches - even if it often ends up damaging itself more than the other bot. Blacksmith is more of a surprise to keep returning as it doesn't win much and its hammer weapon is far less exciting that the massive impacts from colliding with a full body spinner.
> 
> Plus just having a full body spinner or two in the field forces some interesting compromises on bot design (in a way a hammer bot doesn't) because a team can't just assume that better driving will let them dodge all hits. You basically can't attack a full body spinner without being able to take that hit in return. So even if they're not winning much you'd still want one or two in the mix.


I actually like full body spinners but why keep including one that never wins?

Huge vs Mammoth was awesome. So was Witch Doctor vs. Hydra.

I could probably barely tie my shoes when I was eleven. Ok, that was an exaggeration but I definitely couldn't have designed my own fighting bot.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

I thought we saw the "softer" side of Billings when he was interacting with the 11 year old.

The Hydra / Witch Doctor battle was incredible. I watched it a couple of times. I do wish they'd show some of the details of the judge's scoring; I honestly don't know who I would have given it to and I'd be interested in how the judge's saw it.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MauriAnne said:


> I thought we saw the "softer" side of Billings when he was interacting with the 11 year old.
> 
> The Hydra / Witch Doctor battle was incredible. I watched it a couple of times. I do wish they'd show some of the details of the judge's scoring; I honestly don't know who I would have given it to and I'd be interested in how the judge's saw it.


I don't know the official scoring rules but since Witch Doctor spent 75% of the match flying through the air, I thought Hydra won by a landslide. There was another head scratching split decision earlier but I can't remember the participants.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't know the official scoring rules but since Witch Doctor spent 75% of the match flying through the air, I thought Hydra won by a landslide. There was another head scratching split decision earlier but I can't remember the participants.


I agree with you after I saw the interview where they said Hydra was just waiting for things to cool down and wasn't stuck motionless. I would have weighed the partial countdown pretty heavily without knowing this.

The other split decision was Black Dragon over Kracken. That one seemed odd too.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I thought Kracken should have won that one and that they must have been throwing Black Dragon a bone because they came all the way from Brazil.

Watching the battle I thought Mammoth must have been designed to jump high up in the air and do a full somersault over it's opponent, the way the legs and tail worked together. But the guy who designed it looked shocked. I still can't tell intuitively how that should have worked like that.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I thought the judging was awful this week. I thought Kraken should have won (but it was close enough for a split decision). 

And Hydra was a no-brainer winner. I like Witch Doctor, but it got its butt kicked all over the place.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't know the official scoring rules but since Witch Doctor spent 75% of the match flying through the air, I thought Hydra won by a landslide.


And having your bot smoking heavily for the last minute of the match isn't a good thing.

OTOH Hydra did start getting counted out at one point, and it looked like Hydra had become disabled again right at the end of the match (but the count hadn't started again before the clock went past 10 seconds remaining)- it probably influences the judges when it looks like a bot that had been strong early would have lost in a knockout if the match had run just another few seconds.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> And having your bot smoking heavily for the last minute of the match isn't a good thing.
> 
> OTOH Hydra did start getting counted out at one point, and it looked like Hydra had become disabled again right at the end of the match (but the count hadn't started again before the clock went past 10 seconds remaining)- it probably influences the judges when it looks like a bot that had been strong early would have lost in a knockout if the match had run just another few seconds.


I thought they mentioned that scoring this year would emphasize damage. In that case it was definitely arguable that Hydra was more damaged than Witch Doctor. I agree with the decision, but I can see why it was split too.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Oh, and Huge vs. Mammoth might have been the most fun match I've seen in a long time.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Oh, and Huge vs. Mammoth might have been the most fun match I've seen in a long time.


That was epic!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I thought they mentioned that scoring this year would emphasize damage. In that case it was definitely arguable that Hydra was more damaged than Witch Doctor. I agree with the decision, but I can see why it was split too.


Witch Doctor was smoking more than a barbeque pit.

I'd like to see what Hydra can do against giant bots like Huge and Mammoth, if anything.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Witch Doctor was smoking more than a barbeque pit.
> 
> I'd like to see what Hydra can do against giant bots like Huge and Mammoth, if anything.


That's true, and Hydra also had trouble even moving at some point and the count either started or was about to. Again, I said it was arguable, and I could see where someone might see it that way.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> Witch Doctor was smoking more than a barbeque pit.
> 
> I'd like to see what Hydra can do against giant bots like Huge and Mammoth, if anything.


Didn't last year's Mammoth lose one match due to getting stuck on the arena walls after a flip? 
I'd love to see either fight (or both) but I suspect Hydra would have an easier time getting a grip on Mammoth; since at least that bot has a fair amount of frame tubes within flipper height. Against Huge I think you'd pretty much need to get the flipper under a wheel to do anything, and that's a lot more elusive of a target.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

I really like Mammoth and Huge since they throw the standard strategies out the window. So the 2 fighting each other was great. 

I think a flipper against Huge would be difficult. Both due to having to get under a wheel and the fact that Huge's wheels are so floppy anyway that they would just compress a bit from the flipper attack.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

It's kind of confusing keeping things straight while I'm (finally) catching up on the older eps I still have while watching the new eps (the same night so far)..

I liked Huge a lot, but seeing it get demolished totally (wheels broken, it break in half) on S3 (?) was kind of shocking. Then it had new wheels and still got chomped up.

The one general conclusion I've come to - even if they're overall the most powerful/strong bot, any of these bots with such a long warmup time (to get the horizontal spinner up to speed usually) are at a huge disadvantage. They need a smaller bar or a much more powerful motor or something. Some of the ones with vertical spinning rolling pin like things take too long too, but not quite as badly.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

mattack said:


> It's kind of confusing keeping things straight while I'm (finally) catching up on the older eps I still have while watching the new eps (the same night so far)..


It doesn't help that the guide data for BattleBots is genuinely dreadful. I've been reduced to "watch show anyway - do I recognize these fights?".

That said, new episode tonight (with bad guide data).


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Rotator got screwed!


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Rotator got screwed!


I can see it going either way, arguments for both sides.

But I would have voted for Beta.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Rotator got screwed!


Eh, I can see why that was split.
* Yes Beta never fired its hammer - and there were a few points where it really should have after temporarily stalling Rotator's weapon by jamming it into a wall.
* But Rotator's weapon was only effective once, and that looked like pure luck with both bots bouncing off the corner walls; and Beta thereby running its hammer into Rotator's weapon.

The rest of the time Rotator seemed totally at Beta's mercy; getting shoved all over the place and its weapon causing no damage.

Basically
* Beta looked like it dominated on control, was pretty high on aggression, and zilch on damage, while
* Rotator was zilch on control, low on aggression, and low to medium on damage (it's just not a good look for the vast majority of weapons contact to do nothing).
But it's definitely a fight were it would have been interesting to show the judges' component scores. (Didn't they do that at least once on a previous season?)


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Why don't they show the scores? be great


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I don't think it was unclear at all..
5 points damage 3 points aggression 3 points control (IIRC)

they didn't do much damage, but CLEARLY had the other two categories in full.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

The entire Primary Weapon argument made me wonder, do we have a Duck this year? And looking at the bot list, I'm heartbroken, no duck! I liked duck..


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

yeah I was going to post something about duck too.. I liked duck and thought it was unusual and successful (at first?).


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This was the worst BattleBots episode I've ever seen. Only one good match - the first one. I can't remember who it was, though. The rest of the matches just beat my attention down too much.

I saw this on battlebots.com in the News section:


> Discuss. And BattleBots will be investing some kind of penalty or point reduction if a team willfully never uses their working active weapon(s) for the 2021 season.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I am on team Beta (6-5)


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I'd rather they make the fights longer than adding all sorts of nitpicky judging rules. Let them settle it by beating on each other, not by arbitrary decisions.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I'd rather they make the fights longer than adding all sorts of nitpicky judging rules. Let them settle it by beating on each other, not by arbitrary decisions.


I can't see that happening. Would be far too expensive to go the distance every match. I also doubt they'd have enough parts to get a bot thru 6-8 matches. Sounds like they typically only have enough for 2-3 wholesale swap outs of parts.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

PaulS said:


> I also doubt they'd have enough parts to get a bot thru 6-8 matches.


Not a problem. Engineer better bots that can either take the abuse or have more replacement parts. Those that fail at both tasks deserve to lose.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Honestly, I was a little bummed that Beta didn't employ their primary weapon. I wanted to see that thing wreak havoc. From the TV replay, it looks like they had a few chances to do so, while having Rotator up against the walls and its weapon not spinning. Oh well. Otherwise, they completely owned the match from aggression and control standpoints. For me, the only question is how many points to give to Rotator for getting that single hit in that disabled Beta's weapon. On the whole, I mainly agree with the 6-5 judges.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

PaulS said:


> Honestly, I was a little bummed that Beta didn't employ their primary weapon. I wanted to see that thing wreak havoc. From the TV replay, it looks like they had a few chances to do so, while having Rotator up against the walls and its weapon not spinning.


Yeah, I was disappointed in that. I get being cautious, but this was too much.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

eddyj said:


> Yeah, I was disappointed in that. I get being cautious, but this was too much.


Exactly. Beta's team was so wedded to the plan them mentioned after the match (of getting Rotator upside down before hammering it) that they passed up several opportunities (one of them being pretty lengthy) to have gotten some safe hits in; because they had Rotator's weapon jammed up against a wall.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Saw the first episode yesterday (it's delayed a couple of weeks). I maintain the 10 second kills aren't shown unless they are particularly notable - like the highlight flight or it's particularly exciting. Captain Shrederator makes for interesting fights because there's so many kinetic energy that you have bots being tossed about the arena. 

Or how the title fight went being thrown out of the arena - even though it was over in seconds, it was a fun watch.

The most boring one was the shark one - I get why they showed it (two new bots, one of which has a very unique design) but that was a boring fight - I suspect we wont' see those two anymore unless something interesting happens.

Save the shark-bot fight, I'd say it was an interesting set of fights - even the 10 second kills were exciting. But they probably don't air the ones where the bot self-destructs moments after the match starting


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

New episode aired tonight. Guide data continues to be screwy.

We finally get to see this season's 500lb walker bot in action.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> New episode aired tonight. Guide data continues to be screwy.
> 
> We finally get to see this season's 500lb walker bot in action.


That was crazy. I couldn't see how something that slow could win, yet it did. Powerful weapon was the equalizer


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I had to download the Discovery Go app to watch it, which I'm doing right now with tons of commercials. Thanks, TiVo.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> That was crazy. I couldn't see how something that slow could win, yet it did. Powerful weapon was the equalizer


And the 360 degree turret is a major factor too - it can turn much faster than the bot can; and that lets it face the other bot. Wouldn't mater how powerful the weapon was if the opponent could reliably stay out of the forward face of the bot.

OTOH Chomp in a lot of ways got an easy opponent first match out since lifter bots don't tend to inflict much damage; and would be at a extra disadvantage when facing a large and extra-heavy bot.

I'd like to see how Chomp fares against a flipper bot like Hydra. But I suspect it's most vulnerable against a horizontal spinner; seems likely to get through and start tearing off legs which would lead to a mobility KO -- but I guess it depends on what other armor configurations Chomp can carry.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I wonder what happens when they remove that weight bonus for alternative motion robots. Do you get to keep your overweight robot as part of a grandfathered thing, or are you forced to make a lighter bot?


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Worf said:


> I wonder what happens when they remove that weight bonus for alternative motion robots. Do you get to keep your overweight robot as part of a grandfathered thing, or are you forced to make a lighter bot?


And if two slow walkers go up against each other? They could hit the 1 minute mark before they both manage to make it to the center of the box.

But regardless, it's nice to see something different, regardless of the edge cases it invokes.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, at least I know what to look forward to in a couple of weeks (just saw the 2nd episode).

Though, I'm surprised now robots are still being knocked out because they get flipped over - I can understand it being an issue on the first couple of seasons, but by now it should be obvious you need the ability to self-right somehow if you can't work upside-down.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

'BATTLEBOTS: BOUNTY HUNTERS' TO LAUNCH ON DISCOVERY+ WITH THE TOP ROBOT COMPETITORS SMASHING IT OUT - Discovery, Inc.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I don't know how the playoffs actually work in any of the major sports.. 

Are they as subjective as Battlebots is? So Battlebots has a bunch of competitions, but to get into the top X (16 or 32 in recent seasons, IIRC), they have to be chosen (except for the one team that gets in by winning that special second chance tournament).

I realize that the judging itself is somewhat subjective, but I would hope that after everything was objective.. base on wins vs losses, and use other predetermined criteria (speed of wins, etc) to determine what would be ties on the earlier items.

I do think they should get rid of so much 'out of bounds' area. It's great seeing them throw each other in the air, but it seems to be getting too easy to throw them out of bounds so they have no chance to get back in. (Sort of like how American Ninja Warrior is way tougher than when it started.)


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

mattack said:


> I don't know how the playoffs actually work in any of the major sports..
> 
> Are they as subjective as Battlebots is? So Battlebots has a bunch of competitions, but to get into the top X (16 or 32 in recent seasons, IIRC), they have to be chosen (except for the one team that gets in by winning that special second chance tournament).
> 
> I realize that the judging itself is somewhat subjective, but I would hope that after everything was objective.. base on wins vs losses, and use other predetermined criteria (speed of wins, etc) to determine what would be ties on the earlier items.


The problem is the bots aren't durable enough to get a regular season where every pairing of bots fight; so it's very hard to create an objective ranking of their relative capabilities or compare their win/loss records. (Isn't the regular season like just 4 fights?) Though I think all bots with undefeated records are automatically advanced to the playoffs - so it's not a totally subjective process. (Though the process of picking their seeding rank with the playoff bracket probably has a fair bit of subjectivity too it)

Though while I don't know much about how playoffs work in various sports I'm given to understand that at least collage football playoffs actually do work a little like the Battlebot process. A group gets together to decide based on various factors which teams get seeded into it; and there's some subjectivity to that process.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It was good to see the new Chomp, an actual new design. It's so slow that it'll probably never score higher than its opponent in the aggression category. Next season's version should be even better.

Maybe next season the 11 year old kid will have a stronger, heavier bot.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> I don't know how the playoffs actually work in any of the major sports..
> 
> Are they as subjective as Battlebots is? So Battlebots has a bunch of competitions, but to get into the top X (16 or 32 in recent seasons, IIRC), they have to be chosen (except for the one team that gets in by winning that special second chance tournament).
> 
> ...





Jonathan_S said:


> The problem is the bots aren't durable enough to get a regular season where every pairing of bots fight; so it's very hard to create an objective ranking of their relative capabilities or compare their win/loss records. (Isn't the regular season like just 4 fights?) Though I think all bots with undefeated records are automatically advanced to the playoffs - so it's not a totally subjective process. (Though the process of picking their seeding rank with the playoff bracket probably has a fair bit of subjectivity too it)
> 
> Though while I don't know much about how playoffs work in various sports I'm given to understand that at least collage football playoffs actually do work a little like the Battlebot process. A group gets together to decide based on various factors which teams get seeded into it; and there's some subjectivity to that process.


Pro sports, like the NFL, MLB and so forth are strictly by record, but college sports have tournaments and getting picked for the tournament is subjective and in some case, especially around seeding can be political as well. That's one of the reasons I've never been a huge fan of these tournaments. College football for example. This Wikipedia page lists the teams for each year. Notice that the same teams are there year after year. It's a perpetual cycle. The teams make the tournament, which helps recruiting which helps them get back in the tournament. That's the problem with such a small number of teams......but I digress...

Battlebots though is also entertainment, so they want entertaining matches, and I think that plays into who makes the tournament. The bots people want to see fight, and the personalities behind them are going to factor into who makes and who doesn't. I have seen bots with a winning record left off and bots with a .500 record make it.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

cheesesteak said:


> It's so slow that it'll probably never score higher than its opponent in the aggression category.


I thought it was surprisingly fast for what it is, but of course other bots can still run circles around it. Watching the match I thought the other bot would look bad aggression-wise if the two bots never got within three feet of each other, because Chomp at least has an excuse. The other bot would appear too scared to approach.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

The goal is to get a KO, and never let it go to the judges. The judges are too unpredictable - there are many times you can fairly argue the other bot should've won, but didn't. It should be more of "You have 3 minutes to disable the other bot (preferably in a dramatic fashion). After that, we're tossing a coin to determine the winner."

And face it, the audience loves high energy displays in the arena - bots getting tossed across the arena and crashing everywhere brings out the cheers. Even more so if it causes big pieces to fly everywhere (like the decapitation of Gigabyte). 

Have to say, that Dill bot has a very interesting weapon I'd like to see more of.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This show has a ton of dead time. They could use some of that to interview the judges on controversial split decisions.

I noticed that some of Faruk's introductions for new robots are very short and are essentially "It's *that* robot!"


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> This show has a ton of dead time. They could use some of that to interview the judges on controversial split decisions.
> 
> I noticed that some of Faruk's introductions for new robots are very short and are essentially "It's *that* robot!"


I noticed the same. I just wonder if he's running out of ideas for the intros. I used to fast forward through the interviews and the shop talk, but for some reason this year I'm not.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I noticed the same. I just wonder if he's running out of ideas for the intros. I used to fast forward through the interviews and the shop talk, but for some reason this year I'm not.


I fast forward through Faruk, but sometimes watch the interviews, and mostly watch the shop talk.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

I really like Faruq and his intros, but I think they've set the balance correctly this season. Does every robot need a full intro? Probably not. 
They're probably saving something like 2 minutes of screen time by snipping his full intros for all the robots - which gives us more screen time for interviews, replays, etc.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

And more importantly, more ads.

Remember Battlebots used to have 5 matches in a 1 hour episode and now it only has 8 for a 2 hour episode. Some of the interviews are fun to watch but they do a lot of filler. I'm sure a big part is because of COVID restrictions meaning they just don't have enough B-roll to show like they normally would (things like panning the audience and other time wasters).


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I still hate it when they briefly switch the cameras to the robot during the matches. I don't care what they're doing or what their reactions are during the match. I care about what the bots are doing.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> I still hate it when they briefly switch the cameras to the robot during the matches. I don't care what they're doing or what their reactions are during the match. I care about what the bots are doing.


Are the announcers robots now?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I noticed the same. I just wonder if he's running out of ideas for the intros. I used to fast forward through the interviews and the shop talk, but for some reason this year I'm not.


if you have a tivo capable of Quickmode, that's useful. like I said before, I do 1.9x on non-competition parts, and the actual competition at normal speed. (1.7 is my "common" max for documentary/reality.. 1.9 is 'I can understand it all but sort of skimming if it's really deep').


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I have a TiVo capable of 3FFF. A 2 hour episode goes by in 20 minutes.

I love this show, but I'm here for the fights.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Are the announcers robots now?


Sorry brain fart. Should have been "robot operators"


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I was very disappointed with the Hydra / Huge match. In fact, so disappointed in Hydra that I didn't bother to watch that match's post fight interviews. Hydra rope-a-dope'd Huge for three minutes with its new fence rail thingy, never using its weapon. The show really needs to address bots not using their weapons. This is the second time this season I've seen this.

I'm sad that Witch Doctor keeps losing.

Some of the rookie bots have no business being on tv. That kevlar bot? Come on.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I was very disappointed with the Hydra / Huge match. In fact, so disappointed in Hydra that I didn't bother to watch that match's post fight interviews.


Agreed. And there were a couple points where it looked like Hydra's flipped was under Huge's wheel - it should have fired.

I was expecting the judged to punish Hydra for going against the spirit of battlebots (and to deter other designers from making such boring designs). Yes it clearly gets control points (but it took a long time to corral Huge) - but Huge was the aggressor, constantly trying to get at Hydra, and Huge managed to use it's main weapon for damage (however minuscule). And since damage is supposed to be from the primary weapon I'd have discounted the couple hits from the pulverizer -- or rather added those under control; rather than damage.

And again it would have been interesting to see the judges scorecards.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I was very disappointed with the Hydra / Huge match. In fact, so disappointed in Hydra that I didn't bother to watch that match's post fight interviews. Hydra rope-a-dope'd Huge for three minutes with its new fence rail thingy, never using its weapon. The show really needs to address bots not using their weapons. This is the second time this season I've seen this.


You missed the best part of that fight, the guys was SALTY about not really having a fight. He was challenging Hydra to a real fight, anytime anywhere!


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

It almost made me shut off the show.

The producers have already tweeted that next season there will be a penalty for not using the primary weapon.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> You missed the best part of that fight, the guys was SALTY about not really having a fight. He was challenging Hydra to a real fight, anytime anywhere!


The boo's from the crowd was nice.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Tobashadow said:


> The boo's from the crowd was nice.


And then later they showed live reactions from the pits and most folks were unhappy with that fight and its result. I didn't go back an look but was it Donald Hudson who was shown in the crowd reaction making the weakest most pro-forma clap after the results were announced?


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Yah, that was a cheesy approach with the cowcatcher, and ignoring the refs calls to back off should have incurred some real penalty. That was just plain cheap.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Some of the rookie bots have no business being on tv. That kevlar bot? Come on.


 It did made for a spectacular few seconds of complete annihilation though. I got a thrill out of that, but yes I agree it was a ridiculous match up.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

moyekj said:


> It did made for a spectacular few seconds of complete annihilation though. I got a thrill out of that, but yes I agree it was a ridiculous match up.


I thought it had potential. A low to the ground dome like bot might have the ability to deflect horizontal spinners in a way that unbalances them without receiving much damage. And I don't know my material sciences well enough to know if Kevlar is a good choice for such a thing. Will it work? Only one way to find out.

As it turns out, no, it didn't work.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I was very disappointed with the Hydra / Huge match. In fact, so disappointed in Hydra that I didn't bother to watch that match's post fight interviews. Hydra rope-a-dope'd Huge for three minutes with its new fence rail thingy, never using its weapon. The show really needs to address bots not using their weapons. *This is the second time this season I've seen this.*
> 
> I'm sad that Witch Doctor keeps losing.
> 
> Some of the rookie bots have no business being on tv. That kevlar bot? Come on.


What was the other time? This is the only one I recall. Admittedly, Hydra-Huge was boring, but Hydra just identified a weakness in Huge and exploited it. As an engineer, I appreciate that. Totally like that. More engineering than that remote control robots show of AI. Yeah, my area.

Watching Kevlar bot get shredded was cool. Reminds me of last week, there was a bot that could barely move it was so off balance.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

justen_m said:


> What was the other time? This is the only one I recall. Admittedly, Hydra-Huge was boring, but Hydra just identified a weakness in Huge and exploited it. As an engineer, I appreciate that. Totally like that. More engineering than that remote control robots show of AI. Yeah, my area.
> 
> Watching Kevlar bot get shredded was cool. Reminds me of last week, there was a bot that could barely move it was so off balance.


Rotator vs Beta discussed in this thread about 2 pages ago where Beta intentionally never used their weapon:
Battlebots Season 5 - 2020 - 2021


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

The Hydra thing was brilliant, and I hated every minute of it. I hope they change the rules so it cannot happen again. But given the current rules, they pretty much did what they had to. They saw how ineffective Toro was against Huge, so just just going in as normal would have been suicide. They get credit for pulling out a solution out of their asses. But have I mentioned I hated it?


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Failure to use your primary weapon should result in a disqualification. This is *BATTLE*bots, not CowCatcherBots.

Sooooooooo lame!

And he was kind of a cocky jerk about the whole thing afterwards. Now I want his bot to get shredded.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> I thought it had potential. A low to the ground dome like bot might have the ability to deflect horizontal spinners in a way that unbalances them without receiving much damage. And I don't know my material sciences well enough to know if Kevlar is a good choice for such a thing. Will it work? Only one way to find out.
> 
> As it turns out, no, it didn't work.


Well it failed especially badly because the other bot got under it, so the kevlar dome was hit from the inside - smashing it away from the robot. I'm sure its design was focused on blows coming from the outside.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

eddyj said:


> The Hydra thing was brilliant, and I hated every minute of it. I hope they change the rules so it cannot happen again. But given the current rules, they pretty much did what they had to. They saw how ineffective Toro was against Huge, so just just going in as normal would have been suicide. They get credit for pulling out a solution out of their asses. But have I mentioned I hated it?


I don't know if they had the weight budget left - but I'd have love to see Hydra add a big upward facing axe head to their flipper. Use the cow catcher to pin Huge and then deliver a massive upper-cut into its body. Try to split it in half again.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

PaulS said:


> Failure to use your primary weapon should result in a disqualification. This is *BATTLE*bots, not CowCatcherBots.


Tend to agree - but think it'd get tricky to judge at the margins.
Would it avoid a DQ if you fire your weapon once at the start of the match - even if you haven't closed with the other bot yet?

If your weapon gets disabled by your opponent before you can use it - but you somehow manage to immobilize them anyway through ramming, overturning, or box hazards should your KO be overturned by a weapons DQ?
If not how do the refs determine between a weapons disabled/failed and a refusal to use the weapon?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

At least there aren't any Russians on the judging panel.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Hydra's cow catcher was an absolutely brilliant example of engineering that completely sucked as an entertainment device. It resulted in a fight like a boxing match where both opponents have their hands tied behind their backs.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Huge wasn't a winning design for a big bot anyway regardless of whether opponents use a cow catcher. I'm Team Mammoth.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I was very disappointed with the Hydra / Huge match.


I wouldn't say VERY disappointed, it just wasn't very entertaining... You didn't listen to his explanations, but I actually thought he made some good points.. Even if everyone disliked what he did, it sort of was the best thing he could do.

I also think it's kind of strange that this makes it so boring -- when Duck is another mostly-defensive bot that IS entertaining.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Allanon said:


> 'BATTLEBOTS: BOUNTY HUNTERS' TO LAUNCH ON DISCOVERY+ WITH THE TOP ROBOT COMPETITORS SMASHING IT OUT - Discovery, Inc.


So they mention 6 legendary bots.. so is this effectively 6 "2 hour" (if it were with commercials) episodes?
Does anybody have Discovery+ and can tell how much actual content time-wise this is? (and maybe if the battles vs other stuff is about the same proportion as the regular episodes)

as usual, I already have far more stuff I already pay for.. but depending on how much this is, some eon I may do the free trial and just binge these eps.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I noticed the same. I just wonder if he's running out of ideas for the intros.


It's writers, not him. (I'm pretty sure it was the Discovery+ edition of Josh Gates Live where he gave that away.. though I seem to remember seeing him interviewed on one other show recently too.)

Though even last season, they seemed to be stretching for the pop culture allusions. (They were still funny, but seemed more off the wall -- and heck, almost all of them are for people 40+.)


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

mattack said:


> So they mention 6 legendary bots.. so is this effectively 6 "2 hour" (if it were with commercials) episodes?
> Does anybody have Discovery+ and can tell how much actual content time-wise this is? (and maybe if the battles vs other stuff is about the same proportion as the regular episodes)
> 
> as usual, I already have far more stuff I already pay for.. but depending on how much this is, some eon I may do the free trial and just binge these eps.


I'm waiting to finish the regular Battlebots season before watching this. I don't know if it will contain spoilers.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Then please provide info then -- though if you have Discovery+, you can probably just see how long/how many eps there are? (like I said, I THINK I have inferred there are 6 episodes.. just not sure now long each is)


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mattack said:


> I wouldn't say VERY disappointed, it just wasn't very entertaining... You didn't listen to his explanations, but I actually thought he made some good points.. Even if everyone disliked what he did, it sort of was the best thing he could do.
> 
> I also think it's kind of strange that this makes it so boring -- when Duck is another mostly-defensive bot that IS entertaining.


Where is Duck this season? I liked that bot.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mattack said:


> So they mention 6 legendary bots.. so is this effectively 6 "2 hour" (if it were with commercials) episodes?
> Does anybody have Discovery+ and can tell how much actual content time-wise this is? (and maybe if the battles vs other stuff is about the same proportion as the regular episodes)
> 
> as usual, I already have far more stuff I already pay for.. but depending on how much this is, some eon I may do the free trial and just binge these eps.


Yeah, I have too many pay streaming subscriptions and am even thinking of dumping Netflix so there's no way I'm paying for Discovery+


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Once all the episodes are there, I might take a free week and binge, but I also don't need another subscription.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

mattack said:


> Then please provide info then -- though if you have Discovery+, you can probably just see how long/how many eps there are? (like I said, I THINK I have inferred there are 6 episodes.. just not sure now long each is)


My free trial expired but I did get them using magical means, at the time I downloaded there were 4 episodes each about 45 min long. They might add more each week, don't know.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

mattack said:


> I wouldn't say VERY disappointed, it just wasn't very entertaining... You didn't listen to his explanations, but I actually thought he made some good points.. Even if everyone disliked what he did, it sort of was the best thing he could do.
> 
> I also think it's kind of strange that this makes it so boring -- when Duck is another mostly-defensive bot that IS entertaining.


But Duck got KOs by smashing headlong into other bot's weapons. "I will break your fist on my face!!!"

Lots of smashes and flying bots (sometimes just flying Duck, sometimes both bots). If Duck just pushed its opponents into the corner and didn't let them move it'd also be a boring bot to watch.

Also it would have been a boring match to watch if Duck's opponents dialed their weapon power way down, got a few light hits, then turned it off to save damage and the two bots shoved each other around the box. Technically if scoring was the same as this season that should let them edge out a judges decision on damage points (some to none); but *yawn*.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

New EP tonight - Episode 6 - Battle of the Undefeated - (Tivo guide data does not appear to have an Episode Number)

Valkyrie vs Rotator
Gigabyte vs Extinguisher
Sharkoprion vs Slap Box
Malice vs Madcatter
Tantrum vs Atom #94
Smeeeeeeeeeee vs Pain Train
Sawblaze vs Uppercut


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

WHAT AN EPISODE! One of the best 2 hours of BattleBots I've ever seen! Lots of sparks, fire, hits and even a giant explosion that no doubt will be one of the classic takes shown over and over going forwards. This is a must see episode for any BattleBots fan. Loved it.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

moyekj said:


> WHAT AN EPISODE! One of the best 2 hours of BattleBots I've ever seen! Lots of sparks, fire, hits and even a giant explosion that no doubt will be one of the classic takes shown over and over going forwards. This is a must see episode for any BattleBots fan. Loved it.


I enjoyed it. The huge explosion was cool. 

I think Smeeeeee isn't a great design but I give them props for trying something new. But can you imagine what would happen to it against a formidable spinner than can actually move around?

When the battle between the sharkbot and the lifter started, I made a comment about "oh yeah, beat up on a little 8 year old girl will you?"

Then the little girl's robot manage to lift up the shark bot and carry him around the box while simultaneously torching it.

After the battle I actually stopped to listen to the guy's interview. (I usually FFWD through everything but the battles.) And he made the speech about "if I can inspire an 8 year old girl to do this, then my job is done". Then he goes on to talk about the loss of his design partner to cancer and how he hasn't smiled again till now...

Man, the feels...


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

ehusen said:


> I think Smeeeeee isn't a great design but I give them props for trying something new. But can you imagine what would happen to it against a formidable spinner than can actually move around?


I really want to like Smeeeeee.. But I'm having a hard time seeing a way he can win, other than going up against bots that just fall apart on their own.

And speaking of bots that fall apart, his opponent... What's the point of having a recessed spinning weapon, that it's almost impossible to hit an opposing bot with? It just seems so far back that it's almost impossible to make good contact with another robot.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> I really want to like Smeeeeee.. But I'm having a hard time seeing a way he can win, other than going up against bots that just fall apart on their own.
> 
> And speaking of bots that fall apart, his opponent... What's the point of having a recessed spinning weapon, that it's almost impossible to hit an opposing bot with? It just seems so far back that it's almost impossible to make good contact with another robot.


I almost wonder if Smeeee was tested on a higher grip surface, because in the battle bots the 2 end-bots don't seem to be able to overcome the segment springs to actually envelope a bot and hit it on the back/sides like Smeeee was designed to. And they have to have tested that; right?

I'd guess it needs more traction, more powerful wheel motors, or less stiff connections between segments so it can actually collapse in around an opponent; rather than getting pushed backwards without the weapons making contact.

I don't know that that would make it a good design - but I'd like to see how it worked if it could pull off what should be its signature move.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I can live without ever seeing Smeee again. Pain Train, too.

I like the shark bot more as a piece of art than as a legit Battlebots contender.

Valkyrie vs Rotator was great. Sawblaze vs Uppercut too.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

moyekj said:


> WHAT AN EPISODE! One of the best 2 hours of BattleBots I've ever seen! Lots of sparks, fire, hits and even a giant explosion that no doubt will be one of the classic takes shown over and over going forwards. This is a must see episode for any BattleBots fan. Loved it.


Indeed, possibly the best single episode ever!



ehusen said:


> After the battle I actually stopped to listen to the guy's interview. (I usually FFWD through everything but the battles.) And he made the speech about "if I can inspire an 8 year old girl to do this, then my job is done". Then he goes on to talk about the loss of his design partner to cancer and how he hasn't smiled again till now...
> 
> Man, the feels...


I don't listen to many, but I did for this one. Definitely got dusty.



> And speaking of bots that fall apart, his opponent... What's the point of having a recessed spinning weapon, that it's almost impossible to hit an opposing bot with? It just seems so far back that it's almost impossible to make good contact with another robot.


Has PainTrain been able to hit anything? That weapon sounds awesome, but effective it is not! I also think SMEEEEEEEEE should have won that battle.



Jonathan_S said:


> I almost wonder if Smeeee was tested on a higher grip surface, because in the battle bots the 2 end-bots don't seem to be able to overcome the segment springs to actually envelope a bot and hit it on the back/sides like Smeeee was designed to. And they have to have tested that; right?
> 
> I'd guess it needs more traction, more powerful wheel motors, or less stiff connections between segments so it can actually collapse in around an opponent; rather than getting pushed backwards without the weapons making contact.
> 
> I don't know that that would make it a good design - but I'd like to see how it worked if it could pull off what should be its signature move.


The traction seems to be an issue with more than one robot. They even commented on it on one of the other fights (SlapBox?), that rookie teams often have issues with this.

The other big problem it has, IMO, is that their spinner weapons have almost no reach, so they rarely actually cause damage.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I'm two weeks behind, but Hydra vs. Huge was a completely different kind of match over Rotator vs. Beta. At least with Beta I can understand - if your primary weapon only works a few times, you want to get the most out of it and sometimes you just don't get the opportunity (though you should at least try).

But Hydra vs. Huge? That's a different match altogether because they *never intended to use the primary weapon. *Beta never got the opportunity, but intended to, but Hydra never intended to. That's why it's a fight people hated - sure strategically it was the right move but they went into it never intending to fight.

And yes, I think the refs should've had Hydra sanctioned for skirting the rules on catch and release - it's one thing if the bots end up entangled and unable to disentangle themselves (as has happened), but deliberately holding should easily be penalized - at the very least by forcing both bots to their starting squares.

Alas, chances are Hydra will go through to the top 32 without the selection committee involvement - this kind of act while winning, is worthy of being dinged because it was not a sporting fight and Hydra won by technicalities.

As for new bots and crazy things, I like them. They don't hae much chance, but you do get various gems in the rough. Huge was one of them, after all, and you never really know. So I'm glad that even the worst and most hopeless of new bots still get a chance in the arena.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Worf said:


> And yes, I think the refs should've had Hydra sanctioned for skirting the rules on catch and release - it's one thing if the bots end up entangled and unable to disentangle themselves (as has happened), but deliberately holding should easily be penalized - at the very least by forcing both bots to their starting squares.


This was also a legal move. The refs telling them to let go, and they backed off, and argued (successfully, it would seem) that they were not holding them, since they were not even touching the other bot. Which they were not.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

If they are going to start arbitrarily penalizing bots regardless of the rules, then they may as well penalize Huge as well. The way Huge is designed it has most of its parts out of reach of the weapons of many other bots, and their wheels seem to get more resilient every year. So a good argument can be made that Huge is avoiding the type of head-on weapon-versus-weapon fight that some people seem to be clamoring for.

But I'd rather see fewer rules and fewer arbitrary decisions in the first place. Just let the bots battle it out as much as possible. Last bot moving wins. I would not mind if the judges were eliminated entirely. The matches could be twice as long, and if both bots are still moving at the end, then either eliminate them both or flip a coin to determine which is eliminated.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

eddyj said:


> This was also a legal move. The refs telling them to let go, and they backed off, and argued (successfully, it would seem) that they were not holding them, since they were not even touching the other bot. Which they were not.


Right. He had found a loophole, and exploited it. He was within the letter of the law/rules, but I'd argue not within the spirit of the law/rules.

From what I understand, the rules are going to change next season concerning usage of the primary weapon to avoid situations like this.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Episode 7 - Turning Up the Heat - (Tivo says S5 E3, which could be interesting since we already had a S5 E3 this year)
--------------------------------------------
Axe Backwards vs Captain Shrederator
Copperhead vs P1
Rusty vs Beta
Mammoth vs Hypershock
Subzero vs Sporkinok
Bale Spear vs Tracer
Gruff vs Whiplash


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Wow. Captain Shrederator actually won a match.

Maybe they were contractually required to show Bale Spear, Bale Spear and P1 once but I wish they hadn't.

Rusty got its rear end crushed


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I saw the awesome BattleBots episode (2 weeks ago). That really was a good episode. Even the ones that ran to judging were a good 3 minutes of fun.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

there's only one new one today, at 8pm.. the guide data is messed up (as usual) and showed the one before and IIRC the one after as new too.. had to confirm with episode titles that they really weren't dumping multiple eps at once.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

series5orpremier said:


> I'm Team Mammoth.


Woo-hoo! Great upset for the 30th seed over the #3.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Mammoth win was crap as always

Haven't finished the ep yet but yeah that 30 vs 3 upset was big!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Mammoth looks like a hurricane blew a bunch of junk from a yard sale together.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Mammoth looks like a hurricane blew a bunch of junk from a yard sale together.


And their so-called "vertical spinner" which is really more just a windmill is practically useless. I don't remember too many times where it outright won a battle without going to judges decision.
I mostly don't like defensive bots with the exception of "Duck" which I really miss for some reason...


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

moyekj said:


> And their so-called "vertical spinner" which is really more just a windmill is practically useless. I don't remember too many times where it outright one a battle without going to judges decision.
> I mostly don't like defensive bots with the exception of "Duck" which I really miss for some reason...


It's so slow it really only just tips bots over. Now for those few bots that don't have self-righting mechanisms (or the slightly larger number that no longer have working ones after earlier fights) getting upside down is a game ending problem. But otherwise that weapon seems nearly useless at inflicting damage. (Though I guess constantly flipping a bot over is a sign of control; but a fairly boring one. Though not as boring as the Hydra cow-catcher deployed against Huge)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Mammoth reminds me of the kind of boxer who wins fights because they have a great jab that keeps the other fighter off him, and lands the occasional counter punch. Boring, but gets the job done. In this fight Mammouth looked like an elephant swatting flies away with it's tail. It didn't land anything big, but just kind of kept swatting at it, keeping it away. 

I love that Witch Doctor has seem to right itself. For some reason that team is one of my favorites and I was happy to see that win.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Hydra is so low to the ground and slope-y that it's hard to see any other bot's weapon being effective against it. Maybe Tombstone since it has such a serious reach advantage. I too like Witch Doctor but the four wheeled bots with space between the bottom of the chassis and the floor seem tailor made for Hydra's flipper.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

I'm just catching up with the thread. My kids and I started watching Battlebots a few weeks ago.

I read through the rules for submitting bots to the show and like someone said upthread, the competition is 100% about spectacle. To the point that you have to submit a picture of your team before your bot will be considered and if your team doesn't look flashy enough you won't get selected. That's also how some of the crazy bots get in. The producers know they won't be competitive, but they will make for good spectacle. 

I'm watching it on YouTubeTV and the guide data there is all jacked up too. It's nearly impossible to find the new episodes. I know they show up Thursday nights at 7 CST. If I didn't know that I'd have a devil of time knowing if there were new episodes or not.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

pendragn said:


> I'm watching it on YouTubeTV and the guide data there is all jacked up too. It's nearly impossible to find the new episodes. I know they show up Thursday nights at 7 CST. If I didn't know that I'd have a devil of time knowing if there were new episodes or not.


You can doublecheck "new" episodes on the battlebots website. Next "new" episode is listed on the events page (with the episode title inconvieniently buried in the description text) - and at the bottom right there's a "Previous Events" link, that if you scroll all the way to the bottom of, you can see recent "new" episodes. It's far from perfect, but it does help untangle the mess of the current season a little, sometimes.

Important dates - BattleBots


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pendragn said:


> I'm just catching up with the thread. My kids and I started watching Battlebots a few weeks ago.
> 
> I read through the rules for submitting bots to the show and like someone said upthread, the competition is 100% about spectacle. To the point that you have to submit a picture of your team before your bot will be considered and if your team doesn't look flashy enough you won't get selected. That's also how some of the crazy bots get in. The producers know they won't be competitive, but they will make for good spectacle.
> 
> I'm watching it on YouTubeTV and the guide data there is all jacked up too. It's nearly impossible to find the new episodes. I know they show up Thursday nights at 7 CST. If I didn't know that I'd have a devil of time knowing if there were new episodes or not.


Yeah YTTV seems to grab random eps, the key is seeing the 2h eps are the real reals, seems to have some 1 hour ones.

I use a Trakt App and I get a notification on my phone when a new ep airs, so I use that


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

There was an episode of Carolla Classics that had a segment with Grant Imahara on it. There's a separate podcast feed (but they put an ep a week in the regular Adam Carolla feed, but I usually delete it since I almost certainly heard the original).. The (classics) episode is from October 30 and still in the feed.

ANYWAY, it was interesting to listen to. He talks a bit about the original Battlebots, and I at least didn't remember that they made toys back then too. (I had thought it was unusual in the past few years seeing the toys for them.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

also the 8pm show is new, the others aren't..


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The matches were interesting this week. I can't see anybody beating Hydra. Everybody will have to reconfigure their bots in some way in the off season to account for its advantages.

It was interesting to see that Tombstone is totally useless without its weapon.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> It was interesting to see that Tombstone is totally useless without its weapon


Not surprising. It is built for offense, 100%


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

eddyj said:


> Not surprising. It is built for offense, 100%


Was it just me, or did Tombstone seems to be driving more slowly that usual in that match? (Even before it lost it's weapon)


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Tombstone has never been fast, that I remember. Just fast enough to get it's weapon into play.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The Giant Nut is the championship prize but is there also a cash prize for the champion and runners up? It must cost the teams thousand of dollars to buil and maintain the bots and pay the team members, if necessary. I see a lot of sponsors names on the various bots and gear that the team members wear. Is that their only source of income?


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> The Giant Nut is the championship prize but is there also a cash prize for the champion and runners up? It must cost the teams thousand of dollars to buil and maintain the bots and pay the team members, if necessary. I see a lot of sponsors names on the various bots and gear that the team members wear. Is that their only source of income?


What Are the Rules of Battlebots and How Much Do Winners Get?


> *What Do Contestants Win?*
> Of course, the prize is what makes any competition interesting. Although a love of robots is at the center of the contest, a good prize will make anyone want to step their game up. So, what's at stake in the Battlebots arena? One word: money. Although we weren't able to find any information on the prize money from the last year or so, we were able to track down what the prizes were back in 2016. The official guidelines stated the prizes as listed below:
> 
> 
> ...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

> $500 to any Alternate Team that fights during Rehearsal Matches
> $500 to any Teams that fight in the Rumbles (win or lose).
> $1,000 to each Qualifying Round Winning Team.
> $500 to each Qualifying Round Losing Team.
> ...


Team Captain Shrederator must be practically on welfare


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Ok first battle in the final ep with black dragon was bonkers and awesome


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

To be on fire for over 2 minutes and finish and win the match that truly was amazing. Much better than the final fight which was pretty boring, but happy for the Kiwis.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

moyekj said:


> To be on fire for over 2 minutes and finish and win the match that truly was amazing. Much better than the final fight which was pretty boring, but happy for the Kiwis.


Black Dragon: I want a flamethrower!
Team: No, you get a drum spinner
Black Dragon: But I really want a flamethrower!
Team: No, we're putting on the special drum spinner which we call the egg beater
Black Dragon: WTH? Come on guys! 
*Black Dragon Wishes Very Hard*
** Black Dragon has been granted the power of fire**


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I didn't think about it all season but what happened to last season's winner Biteforce?


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I didn't think about it all season but what happened to last season's winner Biteforce?


Some teams decided not to participate due to COVID concerns. I think that one may have been one of them.

edit: Bite Force



> On September 3, 2020, Bite Force's team announced on Facebook they would not be competing in Season 5 due to COVID-19 and would be selling Bite Force to make either an upgraded Bite Force or an entirely new robot, thus virtually guaranteeing a new champion for the 2020 event.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Ok first battle in the final ep with black dragon was bonkers and awesome


That was the most fun match of the season. That was crazy!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Isn't Bounty Hunters the supposedly Discovery+ exclusive series?

Because it's now airing in the 8pm Thurs slot.. If you have a OP, you're probably already recording it (and a million other wrongly labelled reruns)


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

mattack said:


> Isn't Bounty Hunters the supposedly Discovery+ exclusive series?
> 
> Because it's now airing in the 8pm Thurs slot.. If you have a OP, you're probably already recording it (and a million other wrongly labelled reruns)


Cool! I also thought it was a D+ exclusive. Sure enough, my TiVo is recording it right now. "Bounty Hunters: Bronco's Back", 6pm-808pm, MDT, on Discovery. My 1P picked it up. Looks like it's repeated a couple hours later, 10pm-1208am. A week from today, my guide shows "Bounty Hunters: Cold as Ice" in the same time slot. And next week before the 2nd Bounty Hunters, the first one is repeated as two one-hour episodes. So if you miss the first Bounty Hunters tonight, you can record it next week. My 1P is picking up those two as well. Sigh. Just like during the regular season.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Cool! I had just told my sons that we needed to get the freebie week of D+ so we could binge, but this is better, we get a few weeks of fights to watch.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> Isn't Bounty Hunters the supposedly Discovery+ exclusive series?
> 
> Because it's now airing in the 8pm Thurs slot.. If you have a OP, you're probably already recording it (and a million other wrongly labelled reruns)


I came to post this as well. Though my DVR didn't pick it up (because the series name was different), so I found it channel surfing.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> I came to post this as well. Though my DVR didn't pick it up (because the series name was different), so I found it channel surfing.


Yeah, I guess I don't have a 1P for Battlebots, I have a wishlist, and that picked it up. Actually I have both. 1P and wishlist. The latter must have picked it up.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I will just say, the whole season of bounty hunters is awesome (obviously a few meh fights) but overall it's great


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Shrederator should have won. I suspect the judges are biased on what they saw last.. in that its weapon was down and it wasn't in control for part of the END of the match, but it was doing all of the ramming through most of the match.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I came to post this as well. Though my DVR didn't pick it up (because the series name was different), so I found it channel surfing.


Get a Tivo. You'll have plenty of Battlebots recordings!!

(that's a double-slam.. Tivo having bad guide data, but at least realizing it was the same series..)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> Get a Tivo. You'll have plenty of Battlebots recordings!!
> 
> (that's a double-slam.. Tivo having bad guide data, but at least realizing it was the same series..)


Ha! I get all of the recordings under "Battlebots" but for some reason not that one.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

So what's this new "BattleBots Bounty Hunters"?

Seems like a way to recycle some unaired battles from the main season? Or for those "no hope" bots to continue their season alongside the main competition?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Worf said:


> So what's this new "BattleBots Bounty Hunters"?
> 
> Seems like a way to recycle some unaired battles from the main season? Or for those "no hope" bots to continue their season alongside the main competition?


This first appeared on their paid streaming service, but has, a couple of months later made it to the mothership. The concept is, having a set of 8 bots fight tournament style to fight a "legend" in the finals as their "bounty". I like the concept, and after all, it's just more robot fighting time, so I'm in.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah it's just that, quick tournaments, very little of the background etc fluff, so just a lot of fights

It's interesting because each tourny is done in a quick time, so the bot really has to survive 4 (or 5 i forget) fights. Which for some bots can be really tough with a quick turnaround


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Yeah it's just that, quick tournaments, very little of the background etc fluff, so just a lot of fights
> 
> It's interesting because each tourny is done in a quick time, so the bot really has to survive 4 (or 5 i forget) fights. Which for some bots can be really tough with a quick turnaround


And they went back and got some bots and teams that weren't in this season to act as the "bounty" bot. And at least one of the non-rookie bots was from last season; didn't they say something about a travel issue keeping them from making all of this season?

Seems like they stuck most rookie bots into this bounty format, as there have been a number here that we didn't see in the regular season. (Possibly to keep the shortened, 3 match, regular season more competitive). I wonder whether this bounty format idea was something they came up with after the lockdowns started, or if they'd been planning this extra content for much longer than that.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Yeah it's just that, quick tournaments, very little of the background etc fluff, so just a lot of fights
> 
> It's interesting because each tourny is done in a quick time, so the bot really has to survive 4 (or 5 i forget) fights. Which for some bots can be really tough with a quick turnaround


Actually I think it's 4 fights they have to survive. Round of 8, Round of 4 Round of 2 and the bounty fight. There's still plenty of fluff, especially before the bounty fight. If I recall this week, they had the semifinal fight, a set of commercials, then setup up for the fight, a set of commercials, then they brought them into the ring, announce them, they hit the buttons they were ready, then set of commercials, then the fight. Also all through the tourny they had little vignettes about the bounty bot. Still, plenty of action.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Yeah, they get to the final fight with 20-25 minutes left, so they have 20+ minutes of fluff and commercials at the end. Thank goodness for FF!


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

From what I can tell, it's not any quicker - it's 8/4/2 so 7 fights, and the final championship round was 7 fights as well over 2 hours. Each episode is 1 hour long (rather than 2) so it's just split over 2 episodes with more fluff (there are only 7 games from start to finish, versus 8 over a standard 2 hour episode plus the 2 round of 32s and round of 16).

But yeah, more robot fighting. 

Though I'm still of the opinion it started as an untelevised round that was interesting enough - not interesting enough to put on the main fight, but interesting enough to air as a separate series. After all, the first round of 8 are really just 4 random bot fights that could've happened during the main season. And then later in the season, they thought they could make it into a another series to have more content - all the footage was already taken so it would just mean a few more matches. Add in a little creative editing and you have a post-season that was filmed during the main season.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

The Witch Doctor bounty hunter episode was excellent from start to finish.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

eddyj said:


> Yeah, they get to the final fight with 20-25 minutes left, so they have 20+ minutes of fluff and commercials at the end. Thank goodness for FF!


Just watch the non-tournament stuff at 1.9x then the actual matches in real time. Works great.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BTW, there is AT LEAST one more new episode a week from Thursday. I usually check the listings for next week for some of these shows (some days seem to have a lot of conflicts even with fewer new shows on now).. and at first thought it was over since THIS thursday is not Battlebots.. but next week does have a new one..

(and you can't count on the episode info in tivos anymore..)


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

mattack said:


> BTW, there is AT LEAST one more new episode a week from Thursday. I usually check the listings for next week for some of these shows (some days seem to have a lot of conflicts even with fewer new shows on now).. and at first thought it was over since THIS thursday is not Battlebots.. but next week does have a new one..
> 
> (and you can't count on the episode info in tivos anymore..)


Tivo says no episode on 4/22, last Bounty fight on 4/29
Battlebots website says last Bounty fight on 4/22
Discovery Channel listing says no episode on 4/22, last Bounty fight on 4/29
BattleBots Twitter still thinks the last fight is on 4/22

My money is on the next and last new episode airing next week.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Since Tivo plus discovery channel (I presume you mean on the web?) both agree, I'm more likely to believe them at the moment.

but obv will confirm again on Thurs I guess..


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

mattack said:


> Since Tivo plus discovery channel (I presume you mean on the web?)


Correct. And the Battlebots twitter account finaly caught up:

_BREAKING NEWS: The final episode of BattleBots: Bounty Hunters will not air this Thursday. It will instead air next Thursday 4/29 @ 8:00pm ET on Discovery (Discovery is pre-empting the show this week for an Earth Day special - happy Earth Day everyone)._


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I love Rusty and all, but that fight was stolen from Kraken. Period.

Otherwise, a nice finale. I am VERY impressed with how much better Gygabyte has been this season.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

eddyj said:


> I love Rusty and all, but that fight was stolen from Kraken. Period.
> 
> Otherwise, a nice finale. I am VERY impressed with how much better Gygabyte has been this season.


I agree. I thought Kraken beat Rusty by a lot.

I know that the engineers who design and build these bots are very intelligent but why some of them design bots without a self righting mechanism is beyond me.

For me, the worst possible match from an entertainment perspective would be Rusty vs Mammoth. Two bots that look like junk.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I agree. I thought Kraken beat Rusty by a lot.


The problem is that the judging is heavily skewed towards "damage caused by the main weapon". Which means that control bots are screwed from the get-go. So accidental damage to essentially a cosmetic part in Kraken counted more than anything Kraken did.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I know that the engineers who design and build these bots are very intelligent but why some of them design bots without a self righting mechanism is beyond me.


Though to play Devil's Advocate I can't remember Son of Whyachi (or its heavier predecessor Wyachi) ever previously getting inverted. Its very low profile and the low mounted spinner hammers generally keep it upright even when it takes a major hit. It was only an unlucky bounce that caused it to land on its head this time.
And it'd be pretty tricky to build a self-righting mechanism into a bot like SoW. I guess it could go with an bent bar like Gigabyte did (though we saw how long that lasted ) but that complicates the hub arrangement (potentially making it weaker and/or heavier; which means less weight to devote to offense). Anything else I can think of would need to extend between the bars supporting the hammers, and that's tricky even if it only does so after the weapon's spun down.

Arguably, if SoW only gets inverted once every 4 or 5 seasons then a self-righting mechanism may not be worth the tradeoffs to install.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Yeah, SOW is a little different from other spinners in that it's center of gravity is so low, and it is almost impossible to get under it, that having a self-righter seems like a bad choice. But it is definitely the exception. So many other bots need to have it (or be able to run inverted).


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Is there another simultaneous Battlebots-like tour that the bot owners can compete in instead of Battlebots? I haven't seen SoW and at least one other of the bounty hunted bots in a couple of seasons. Are they competing elsewhere or just sitting in a storage container?


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

SoW is on Bounty Hunters. There's a note that they were supposed to be in the main event but I guess something happened.

Could also be because of COVID, the organizers invited more teams than usual, knowing that some will probably not be able to attend, but enough teams that they could have something to record (these would be organized when the first lockdowns would be happening and no one knew how many would even be even able to show up).

I wouldn't be surprised if Bounty Hunters was created as a special because of COVID - I'm guessing teams like SoW couldn't get together in time for the main event but showed up shortly afterwards. Could be because of lockdowns, or other issues (including ability to get the team together in time).

So they created Bounty Hunters as an offshoot. Probably started as a way to use some of the main event footage that was never televised (recycling), at least for the first round, then just do the last matches.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Worf said:


> SoW is on Bounty Hunters. There's a note that they were supposed to be in the main event but I guess something happened.
> 
> Could also be because of COVID, the organizers invited more teams than usual, knowing that some will probably not be able to attend, but enough teams that they could have something to record (these would be organized when the first lockdowns would be happening and no one knew how many would even be even able to show up).
> 
> ...


I stumbled across the Battlebots wiki yesterday while trying to see if SoW had ever previously gotten flipped over - and it says that they weren't planning to run the bot anymore because of the effort needed to keep it operational, but when a planned competitor Double Jeopardy dropped out they brought back SoW, but only to fill that slot in the Bounty Hunters event. (I guess the concerns about maintainability don't matter so much if you're guaranteed to only need to go for one fight)

But I suspect BattleBots was reaching out to lots of teams that weren't planning to play the full season to try to line folks to be the Bounty - so they could fill their broadcast schedule given the much shortened season. We saw several Bounties that weren't in the regular 5th season.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

Spoilers alert

Random thoughts from the Bounty Hunter series

SoW and Bronco were basically retired designs at that point.

You can tell Bronco was basically spare parts and was not in it's best form. It never fired off no where near the bot jumping off the floor level of power.

Knowing the way he thinks Tombstone was probably one of the "used" frames from older seasons or one of his many clone bots. Using a used frame bit him in the butt a couple seasons ago with frame cracking.

Perfect Phenoix using the small blade was a huge mistake, but may have been all they had left after the main season. That bot is a retired design anyways.

Witch Doctor, the moment I seen it had the fixed weapon wheels that the Chomp team helped them make after all the issues, I knew whoever made it to them was screwed. That bot used to be a joke bot for ratings etc, but the last three seasons or so it's gotten very serious and when the weapon works it's a killing machine. I did notice they got their SRD working like a champ this year which was a weak point.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Worf said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Bounty Hunters was created as a special because of COVID


Seemed to me like they made it to be an "original" series for Discovery+, and then for some reason decided to put it on the main channel.. (maybe "give them a free taste" of an entire short run series?)
I thought some previous articles had said Discovery+ had a higher subscription rate than people expected though.

Though I'm glad that presumably they were completely unedited, since they were in slightly-more-than-2-hour time slots.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

eddyj said:


> The problem is that the judging is heavily skewed towards "damage caused by the main weapon". Which means that control bots are screwed from the get-go. So accidental damage to essentially a cosmetic part in Kraken counted more than anything Kraken did.


And they've said this on numerous occasions during the season. It's not always about control. They want carnage, because it's more fun and exciting. Thinking of it in boxing terms, while the jabber may land more punches, the puncher might land less but ones with more damage. Who wins in that case? Clearly in Battlebots its the latter. In that context, Rusty wins. I think it could have gone either way, but based on this criteria, to me, it was clear Rusty won.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

But the damage was essentially cosmetic! All this does is to remove any "fun" from the builds. Like Hydra(?) doing away with the breakaway ablative armor, because it looked like it was taking damage, when it really was intentional to have it break off.

Or bots like Ribbot, which have the "fun" covering that is ripped off, but then they count it as damage against it, even though it is purely cosmetic.


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