# New Bolts MAY Have Better Fans



## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

New Bolts MAY be coming with much better fans - even better than the recommended replacement fans?

I am starting a new thread on this so the information does not get buried in all the other complaints about noisy fans and poor cooling. Those other threads regularly recommend replacement of the stock fan with a Blacksilentfan XS-2 to both make the box quieter and lower the temps by about 10 degrees.

*My experience has been very different. If you have a new 2017 Bolt, you may not need a replacement fan!*

I currently have three Bolts, and I have zero complaints about the noise on any of them. My first one, a 1TB model with the original drive installed, was new in September, 2016. The ODT temp on this box remains around 59 - 62 degrees while sitting on an open glass shelf.

But the real surprise seems to be my brand new 500GB box, built on 4/1/17. I installed a Toshiba 3TB drive in this box (uses much more power than the stock drive), and it is sitting on a wood shelf in an enclosed cabinet with the UPS and other heat-generating equipment. I ran this box for a month with the stock fan, and never saw the temp go above 69 degrees. Yesterday I replaced the stock fan with the recommended XS-2, and guess what? The temps did NOT go down at all. In fact, after only running for a few hours, the ODT was showing 71 degrees!

I did make sure the new fan was spinning before I put the case back together. I'll poke around a bit more today, just to make sure no wires or anything might be fouling the new fan, but if I cannot find anything wrong, I'm going to put the stock fan back in this Bolt.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

Interesting. My Bolt was built April 25, and my temps dropped by roughly 10C with the 3TB Toshiba upgrade, and the XS-2 fan. 

You matched red/black wires, and the airflow direction, with the XS-2? It should be blowing air down, out of the case.


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## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

My new 420 bulid date 500 gb Bolt may be quieter then earlier bolt revisions I don't know this is my first bolt. I do know its just as loud as my basic Romeo which was also too loud for me. My solution is to keep top lid off bolt and disable fan. As a result my temps are also dropped by 10c and no more noise. I plan on hanging my bolt vertically on the wall so as to dissuade dust from settling.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Redoctobyr said:


> Interesting. My Bolt was built April 25, and my temps dropped by roughly 10C with the 3TB Toshiba upgrade, and the XS-2 fan.
> 
> You matched red/black wires, and the airflow direction, with the XS-2? It should be blowing air down, out of the case.


Yes, the plug is on correctly and the fan is blowing down/out. Interestingly, this morning when I turned on the TV to check the temp after having it run all night (I do not use standby on this box), it did show a slight reduction, down to 66 degrees. That may simply be due to a cooler than usual room temp due to the cold-front yesterday - no way of knowing for sure.

I popped the small cover off and verified that the fan was both turning the correct direction and was not being impeded in any way. And although I did not let it run this way for an extended period of time, the ODT temp did start to rise with that cover off - this is to be expected, since the only intake vents are located around the far edges of the case bottom, which normally forces the incoming air to flow over the hotter parts of the system before being exhausted. By only removing the small cover directly over the fan and HDD, none of the normal board cooling can take place.

I went ahead and pulled the full cover off the box again, just to verify the fan connections and re-route the wires (that XS-2 fan has a lot of extra wire compared to the stock fan). Perhaps the excess wires were impeding the air flow a bit? Right now the temp is at 64 - while that is 5 degrees lower than it used to be with the stock fan, it hasn't really been running all that long since I put it all back together again today. I'll update this thread tomorrow after I watch it for another day.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

What's your ambient temperature? My room has typically been 60-65F. 

My ODT was about 68-71C with the stock fan. Since changing to the XS-2, it's usually been 55-58C. I was impressed by the improvement. 

Both fans are quiet, in my opinion, even at a straight 12V from another supply. But I understand some stock fans are quite loud. I found mine to be quiet, but it made my Bolt run warmer than I'd prefer.

I don't use standby mode on mine. I didn't do a great job of organizing the wires from the new fan. I should have wrapped them together, to keep them compact.


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## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

Where do you find the temperature? I can't seem to find it in the System information which is where I thought it was.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

It's on the second page of system information.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

csell said:


> Where do you find the temperature? I can't seem to find it in the System information which is where I thought it was.


System information, 2nd page. A couple of lines above the Remote address. On the Bolt, they only have one temp value, called ODT.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Redoctobyr said:


> What's your ambient temperature? My room has typically been 60-65F.


My room temp now is about 66F, but inside the cabinet where the equipment is located shows about 76 degrees. Right now that Bolt shows ODT = 65 (very little improvement over the stock fan).

Although I have not done specific indoor temp measurements over the past month, today's ambient temps are at least 10 degrees lower than they have generally been for the past month (days have regularly been in the 80s, but today's high is still only 59F), so I really doubt that this new fan is gaining me anything at all.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

It being in an enclosed cabinet with other heat generating equipment may be an important point, then. 

The fan can, of course, only get the device closer to the temperature of the air it's circulating. 

So if you have it in a hot enclosed box, with little access to cooler air, that will of course put you at a significant disadvantage. 

My room has been 60-65F. I put the thermometer next to the Bolt at first, on its open shelf. That was showing 72F. But I moved the thermometer to a table by the TV, to better read the room's temperature, since that's a more common comparison. 

But even if it's 72F next to my Bolt, it is still getting fresh air, since it's on an open shelf. 

If you could do something to allow exchanging with some cooler air, maybe the fan could help more. Could you move it to an open space, as a test? 

Exaggerating the point, if the Bolt was at 70C, and you were blowing 70C air across it, even a big fan wouldn't really be able to do much for you. No cooling would actually be taking place. But use 10C air, and the airflow will help a lot more.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Redoctobyr said:


> It being in an enclosed cabinet with other heat generating equipment may be an important point, then.
> 
> The fan can, of course, only get the device closer to the temperature of the air it's circulating.
> 
> ...


What should be a normal DOT? I have 62


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

I don't know, sorry. I see a lot of people taking about 60C to maybe 72C or so. People seem to start getting somewhat concerned once they're over 70C. 

Of course, this is just based on some reading on my part, and will vary, even for a given Bolt, on the season and ambient temperatures. 

62 sounds pretty good, in my opinion, I wouldn't be worried about it. Someone said that chips like these are often rated to run as high as 85C, though I don't think anyone knows for sure the limit for this one. Regardless, the Bolt is reporting the temperature in one location, and generally, the cooler your electronics run, the happier they are. The hard drive might last longer if you can keep it cooler, for instance, and the Bolt is not reporting/monitoring its temperature. 

So even if 80C was ok for the chip, my personal preference is still to help the unit run as cool as possible/practical. 

I'm not going to set up an air-conditioner for it. But if something like raising the Bolt off the shelf (eg- putting soda caps under the Bolt's feet) will help it run a few degrees cooler, I'm open to that.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

My April 3, 2017 built TiVo Bolt (500GB) is very quiet and I can only BARELY hear it from my seating position (9 and 1/2 feet away) when my TV is muted.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

My 500GB Bolt purchased in the Fall sale last year was built 04/16 and is effectively silent
My Bolt+ bought in the April sale was built in 11/16 and has a very noticeable fan and it was a replacement for one with a noisy fan, I think I'm replacing the fan


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

How do I know when my Bolt+ was built? On the box? or somewhere else


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

I know there is a concern with the ODT temp.... But has anyone had one fail due to the temp? Do we know the chips threshold? Wondering if this is all much ado about nothing


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Redoctobyr said:


> It being in an enclosed cabinet with other heat generating equipment may be an important point, then.
> 
> The fan can, of course, only get the device closer to the temperature of the air it's circulating.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, this is all completely off-topic for this thread. I am not complaining about the temps in the equipment cabinet, nor am I complaining about the internal Bolt temperature in a box running an upgraded HDD. In fact, I was specifically pointing out that even in a less than ideal location the STOCK FAN was doing a very good job in my opinion.

What I was trying to do by starting this thread is specifically address the question of whether or not the fans in the newer Bolts were as bad as many people keep yelling about in various forums. Personally, I think they are just fine, but I tested the popular XS-2 replacement just to see if it would be even better. So far, I am sure it is NOT better than the stock fan in the one Bolt I have tested. During normal use yesterday evening, I repeatedly checked the Bolt temperature, and it was running as high as 68 degrees - just one single degree lower than I had always been seeing with the stock fan. And the room was still generally cooler than it had been over the past few weeks, so I'm betting that single degree cooler temp is due to the room and NOT the replacement fan.

My advice to other Bolt owners would be that they do NOT need to replace their fan. Unless they suspect they have a defective fan in their box, they should not expect some magical and oft-repeated 10C reduction in internal temperatures by replacing the fan. Just my opinion. But I did the testing, and I wanted to share the results.

Maybe TiVo sources their fans from multiple suppliers, and half of them are good while the others are bad? I do not know - I can only say that in the three Bolts I own right now, all the stock fans are very quiet and cool the boxes very well.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

I was never looking to reduce the internal temps in my Bolt, rather I was looking to reduce the noise and replacing the stock fan accomplished that.

P.S.
Thread drift in a discussion forum? Who could have imagined that?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

compnurd said:


> I know there is a concern with the ODT temp.... But has anyone had one fail due to the temp? Do we know the chips threshold? Wondering if this is all much ado about nothing


Running toasty hot can cause problems. According to The Temperature Ratings Of Electronic Parts, Absolute Maximum Ratings are often determined by potential electromigration problems:


> At higher temperatures, the time to failure by electromigration decreases and the upper AMR limit may be determined taking the expected life under electromigration failure into consideration.





> Semiconductor parts are most often specified for use in the "commercial" 0 to 70°C and, to a lesser extent, in the "industrial" -40 to 85°C operating temperature range.


If those temperature ranges refer to ambient operating conditions (as I think they do), a Bolt running with an ODT of nearly 70°C may be OK, but it still seems pretty hot to me. I guess time will tell.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

timstack8969 said:


> How do I know when my Bolt+ was built? On the box? or somewhere else


Sticker on the bottom of the unit has the build date.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

V7Goose said:


> My advice to other Bolt owners would be that they do NOT need to replace their fan. Unless they suspect they have a defective fan in their box, they should not expect some magical and oft-repeated 10C reduction in internal temperatures by replacing the fan. Just my opinion. But I did the testing, and I wanted to share the results.


I would never mean to imply that people shouldn't test, and share their results.

But others (like me) *have* observed significant (~10C) reductions with the XS-2 fan. So the fact that your new fan didn't help with temperatures doesn't mean that they can't. In the same way that my results don't guarantee 10C-lower for anyone else.

Admittedly, I changed my HD at the same time, but the replacement supposedly draws more power than the stock drive, so it should actually make things worse, not better.

A new fan is not a guarantee of lower temps, it seems, but at the same time, it *may* help.

FWIW, my stock fan is very quiet (and yes, it was spinning), but my unit ran rather warm with it. Some people have reported noisy stock fans, but cooler temps, I think. Perhaps the noisy fans aren't just out of balance, or similar. Maybe they are spinning faster, or are otherwise more effective?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Running toasty hot can cause problems. According to The Temperature Ratings Of Electronic Parts, Absolute Maximum Ratings are often determined by potential electromigration problems:
> 
> If those temperature ranges refer to ambient operating conditions (as I think they do), a Bolt running with an ODT of nearly 70°C may be OK, but it still seems pretty hot to me. I guess time will tell.


You're confusing ODT with ambient temperature. The ambient temperature can be 70 C. The ODT temperature can be hotter, and is usually ~20 C hotter than ambient. This varies a lot from part to part. For example, Tjunction for an Intel i5 is around 105C. But I haven't seen an FPGA or CPU that had a Tjunction lower than 85C in 10 years.

"ODT" I guess could also mean what Intel calls Tcase. I think that's the temperature on top of the chip just underneath the heat sink. Although that is lower than Tjunction, that too is a lot hotter than ambient.

Without the datasheet, we don't know what the range is or even which temperature the range is using.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Just another data point (as I had posted elsewhere):

With the original fan in place in a new Bolt with original 500GB hard drive (April 2017 manf. date), box temps have ranged from 58 to a rare high of 64 (the latter with continuous show transfers taking place), with an average of 58-59 during "quiet" periods (no show transfers occurring) and 62 or 63 during "busy" periods (continuous show transfers); room temperature generally has been around 72-74°F., but getting as warm as 81°F. Small supports (water bottle bottle caps) at each corner raising the box may be lowering the temp by a degree.

Sound-wise, I can just hear the box (seemingly, the fan) from 9' away in a smallish, totally quiet room (I think I'm fairly sensitive to sound); the sound is no more or a bit less than that from a Roamio (hard to compare, as the Bolt has a higher-pitched sound than the Roamio) and does not have the more mechanical sounds I hear from my Series 2. If the Bolt was in a media center enclosure open in back but with a glass door front, I would not hear it at all.

Originally, given forum posts, I was thinking that perhaps I should consider a replacement--but then, when I actually compared the Bolt to a Roamio, I'm thinking that I'm doing well.


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## k2ue (May 9, 2002)

I just put the XS-2 fan in my summer house Bolt with a 1TB drive and the ODT dropped from 69 to 59C. Curiously my main home Bolt with 3TB is reporting only 61C with the original fan.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

Interesting info, thanks for sharing. 

Are the two units in similar environments/temperatures? If the 3TB/61C unit is in a cooler room, with more airflow around it, perhaps that could contribute to the lower temperature. 

And I do have to wonder if some stock fans are more effective than others, as some people report lower temps, albeit sometimes along with nosier fans.


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## k2ue (May 9, 2002)

The 3TB unit being 8 deg C cooler -- that's 14F, and yet the room temps were certainly within 5F the same, and the 3TB is taller, blocking more airflow. That's why it was a surprise. It does suggest that there are different original fans. . .


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

k2ue said:


> I just put the XS-2 fan in my summer house Bolt with a 1TB drive and the ODT dropped from 69 to 59C. Curiously my main home Bolt with 3TB is reporting only 61C with the original fan.


New Bolt 500GB currently (and seemingly consistently) at 59 degrees, in a 70°F. room, with original fan; placed on a solid surface, but with small lifting supports at each corner, and open around the sides/top.


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## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

When I bought a Bolt (direct from TiVo) in November 2016, they shipped me a unit with the loudest fan I'd ever heard in any A/V or computer equipment. It was manufactured in January 2016 - sitting on a shelf somewhere for 9 or 10 months.

In March 2017 I exchanged for a refurb unit which was manufactured in January 2017, just a couple of weeks before I made the exchange. (A unit that had evidently been built, purchased and returned really quickly.) This one is nearly silent, certainly inaudible from where I sit unless perhaps I turn off TV sound completely and listen carefully. I really only hear the fan for a few moments while the system is booting. I'm totally satisfied.

I haven't looked into the operating temperature.


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## fjbeiderbecke (Feb 4, 2015)

I bought a bolt+ in Feb. I had to exchange it in April. The replacement was a refurb with a date of Feb 2017. Recently the picture has been horrible, major digital pixelation and no audio. I reset the cable card and it was almost too hot to handle. The entire box seems very hot. I have checked all cable connections, replaced the cables and it ran fine for awhile. The digital noise is back and worse than ever. Could the heat have fried the cable card? What is the fan people have been replacing the stock fan with? What does it do to your warranty?


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

I replaced my stock fan with a Noiseblocker XS-2. It was about $10 on Amazon, though currently unavailable there: 
Amazon.com: Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2: Computers & Accessories

Currently listed on Newegg: 
Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 - Newegg.com
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00839XK5W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Opening the Bolt technically voids your warranty, but there isn't a sticker sealing it shut.

I'd check that your fan is actually spinning, mine was blowing the air down, out of the case.

Some people have gotten theirs to run cooler by raising the Bolt up a little bit off the shelf, like by putting soda bottle caps under the corners of it. That helps the vents breathe more easily, apparently.

Or you can put a fan blowing across it, some people have put a laptop cooler pad (with fans) under it.

You can check the Bolt's internal temperature by going to Settings, then System Information. On the second page of System Information, look for the "ODT" value, which lists a temperature in C. Temperatures up to around 70-72C seem to be considered acceptable. Some run quite a bit cooler. In a 65F room, with the XS-2 fan, my Bolt has been running at more like 55-60C.


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## fjbeiderbecke (Feb 4, 2015)

Thanks for the response. I shut down the box and let it sit for an hour or so. Turning it back on the temp was 47. After about an hour the temp was 70. It is up to 73. I will try to put something underneath to raise it up so I get better airflow. I'll keep an eye on it.



Redoctobyr said:


> I replaced my stock fan with a Noiseblocker XS-2. It was about $10 on Amazon, though currently unavailable there:
> Amazon.com: Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2: Computers & Accessories
> 
> Currently listed on Newegg:
> ...


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

New Bolt 500GB manufactured May 8th. ODT is running 61 with room temperature around 74F. From about 7 feet away with nothing playing, I don't notice the fan. It is noticeable of course when the TiVo first starts and it's running at what is presumably full speed. You can hear it within a couple of feet without any background noise but not loud enough that I would feel like replacing it.

Scott


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

fjbeiderbecke said:


> Thanks for the response. I shut down the box and let it sit for an hour or so. Turning it back on the temp was 47. After about an hour the temp was 70. It is up to 73. I will try to put something underneath to raise it up so I get better airflow. I'll keep an eye on it.


Where is your bolt located - on a shelf, in an open cabinet, in an enclosed cabinet?

You could try using Standby to see if that helps.


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## Marleen Oetzel (May 31, 2017)

V7Goose said:


> New Bolts MAY be coming with much better fans - even better than the recommended replacement fans?
> 
> I am starting a new thread on this so the information does not get buried in all the other complaints about noisy fans and poor cooling. Those other threads regularly recommend replacement of the stock fan with a Blacksilentfan XS-2 to both make the box quieter and lower the temps by about 10 degrees.
> 
> ...


WARNING !!!! Whatever you do -- DO NOT ever purchase a BOLT from TIVO or ever deal with TIVO!!! Been a customer since 1999 that's 18 years & we are on our THIRD Bolt -- It's being reported on their forum page & all over the Internet this until is defective. Maybe they shouldn't have had MEXICO build it for them. 
I've attached the Consumer Affairs link to the BOLT & you'll see what I am saying is word for word what is happening to people all over the country. 
But here's the kicker -- I purchased my first Bolt for $299 from Amazon -- same price TIVO charges. Started having weird error messages within 90 days -- same error messages everyone was getting. They said SINCE I purchased it from AMAZON they would replace it but ONLY with a RESURBISHED/USED but this is cute -- they call it "Reused" unit! So that means these units have been sent back to them DEFECTIVE & supposedly they fixed the problem but that is not the case --- The first one USED unit proved to be defective & now I'm on my 3rd & it's also USED. Guess TIVO doesn't give a damn about customers anymore so just wanted everyone to know, clearly the company that

I USED TO LOVE has gone downhill & right into the GUTTER -- don't make the mistake I did by purchasing TIVO's newest BOLT or doing business with TIVO - period -- 
Marleen Oetzel, Customer since 1999

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/entertainment/tivo.html


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## Marleen Oetzel (May 31, 2017)

timstack8969 said:


> How do I know when my Bolt+ was built? On the box? or somewhere else


WARNING !!!! Whatever you do -- DO NOT ever purchase a BOLT from TIVO or ever deal with TIVO!!! Been a customer since 1999 that's 18 years & we are on our THIRD Bolt -- It's being reported on their forum page & all over the Internet this until is defective. Maybe they shouldn't have had MEXICO build it for them. 
I've attached the Consumer Affairs link to the BOLT & you'll see what I am saying is word for word what is happening to people all over the country. 
But here's the kicker -- I purchased my first Bolt for $299 from Amazon -- same price TIVO charges. Started having weird error messages within 90 days -- same error messages everyone was getting. They said SINCE I purchased it from AMAZON they would replace it but ONLY with a RESURBISHED/USED but this is cute -- they call it "Reused" unit! So that means these units have been sent back to them DEFECTIVE & supposedly they fixed the problem but that is not the case --- The first one USED unit proved to be defective & now I'm on my 3rd & it's also USED. Guess TIVO doesn't give a damn about customers anymore so just wanted everyone to know, clearly the company that

I USED TO LOVE TIVO but they have gone downhill & right into the GUTTER -- don't make the mistake I did by purchasing TIVO's newest BOLT or doing business with TIVO - period -- Marleen Oetzel, Customer since 1999

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/entertainment/tivo.html


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> WARNING !!!! Whatever you do -- DO NOT ever purchase a BOLT from TIVO or ever deal with TIVO!!!............


I've had zero problems with the Bolts I purchased directly from TiVo. They work just as well as the ones I had purchased from Best Buy.

Nothing wrong with refurbished units. I've purchased several TiVo refurbs over the years. I currently have a refurb Roamio basic that has been in use for several years with zero issues. And I have a refurb Roamio OTA that I got last year. Although they did need to send me a new power supply. But that can happen with a new unit too.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with refurbs. And it is nothing new for TiVo to send those out as a replacement.


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## Marleen Oetzel (May 31, 2017)

Well lucky lucky you -- if you check out this forum you'll find you are in the minority -- TIVO's Bolt should be RECALLED b/c it will go down in history as their FORD PINTO !!! 
Since you didn't bother to read what I actually wrote -- they sent me a USED Bolt to make up for the one that was clearly defective & it also proved to be DEFECTIVE. My husband is setting up the THIRD one at this very moment -- we're not hopeful this will be any better than the last two units!


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## Marleen Oetzel (May 31, 2017)

TIVO's Bolt will be their version of the FORD PINTO!


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> Maybe they shouldn't have had MEXICO build it for them.


TiVo's have been manufactured in Mexico for an extremly long time. My S3 OLEDs (over 10 years old) were all made in Mexico.

My Bolt has been performing fine.

Roamio OTA refurb has been performing fine.

I don't know what problem you have (error messages), but if you have an HDMI problem that is TiVo software problem.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> ...
> I've attached the Consumer Affairs link to the BOLT & you'll see what I am saying is word for word what is happening to people all over the country. ...
> http:// https://www.consumeraffairs.com/entertainment/tivo.html
> Top 72 Complaints and Reviews about TiVo





Marleen Oetzel said:


> Well lucky lucky you -- if you check out this forum you'll find you are in the minority -- ...


The "Consumer Affairs" site has a total of 72 product complaints or reviews, spanning from present day back to Feb. 2006. Hardly a failure tsunami.


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## Marleen Oetzel (May 31, 2017)

wow -- trolls everywhere ---


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> wow -- trolls everywhere ---


Again, a dearth of detail. Or do you consider 72 complaints and reviews over a decade, so even fewer during the lifespan of the BOLT models, incontrovertible evidence supporting your case? And out of how many units shipped?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> WARNING !!!! Whatever you do -- DO NOT ever purchase a BOLT from TIVO or ever deal with TIVO!!! Been a customer since 1999 that's 18 years & we are on our THIRD Bolt -- It's being reported on their forum page & all over the Internet this until is defective. Maybe they shouldn't have had MEXICO build it for them.


TiVo's have been made in Mexico since 2000. Our Sony S1 manufactured in April 2000 was made in the USA but by October, they had moved production to Mexico as our Philips S1 manufactured in October 2000 was made in Mexico (as were our 2 S3 OLED's, 1 HD, our Roamio Pro which we've had since October 2015 and now the Bolt that we just bought for my son so you can see we've been a customer for 17 years). Please don't generalize about quality based on the country of manufacture.

I'm sorry to hear you've had problems with the first Bolt and it's initial replacement but it would be better if you had posted here with what your problems were and tried to get assistance or advice rather than posting what really does seem to be a rant versus a constructive complaint. Unfortunately "same error messages everyone was getting" doesn't really tell people what your problem was.

Scott


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I'm not getting any error messages on my bolt, so "same error messages everyone is getting" would imply he's having no problems


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> wow -- trolls everywhere ---


You know if you see trolls in every room that you walk in to there's the possibility the other folks in the room might not be the actual trolls..


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> wow -- trolls everywhere ---


Trolls: In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusement.

If you are looking for one I suggest trying the mirror.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Marleen Oetzel said:


> Well lucky lucky you -- if you check out this forum you'll find you are in the minority -- TIVO's Bolt should be RECALLED b/c it will go down in history as their FORD PINTO !!!
> Since you didn't bother to read what I actually wrote -- they sent me a USED Bolt to make up for the one that was clearly defective & it also proved to be DEFECTIVE. My husband is setting up the THIRD one at this very moment -- we're not hopeful this will be any better than the last two units!


Yes I did read it. You said it was replaced with a refurbished unit. Which is the standard policy when replacing a defective TiVo. Again this is nothing new. They are under no obligation to give you a new TiVo. If you were within 30 days you could return it, get a refund and order another one. And even purchasing from Amazon you would be able to return it within 30 days for a full refund. After 30 days you have to go through the TiVo warranty. Which specifically states what they will replace it with. Again, this is nothing new.

Of course it sucks to get a defective unit. Every electronic device ever made has defective units. And sometimes people get a defective replacement unit. This has happened with every electronic device. It sucks when it happens to you. But it doesn't mean the device is crap. The vast majority of people have no issues. With any electronic device, a small percentage will have issues. This has always been the case. It is nothing new.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

The o


Marleen Oetzel said:


> wow -- trolls everywhere ---


The only troll here would seem to be YOU.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Side note: If you really want to get the ODT high, try transferring some shows from a PC over to a Bolt+. Even with ZALMAN - ZM-NC3 underneath my stock Bolt+ (have never opened the case), I saw ODT go to 70 C.

It seems w/the above Zalman cooler, my typical ODTs stabilize at around 57 to 62 C.

The Theraltake Massive 14 cooler I pointed to at Transfer of Lifetime from Series 2 or Series 3 TiVo for $99, with purchase of new Bolt seems more effective even at its lowest speed. The Zalman I bought has no fan speed adjustment. I picked it up as it was on sale for cheap. I have little confidence that either cheap cooler will actually last that long running 24/7 before the bearings go bad.


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## Doc Holiday (Dec 31, 2016)

V7Goose said:


> New Bolts MAY be coming with much better fans - even better than the recommended replacement fans?
> 
> ...
> 
> But the real surprise seems to be my brand new 500GB box, built on 4/1/17. I installed a Toshiba 3TB drive in this box (uses much more power than the stock drive), and it is sitting on a wood shelf in an enclosed cabinet with the UPS and other heat-generating equipment. I ran this box for a month with the stock fan, and never saw the temp go above 69 degrees. Yesterday I replaced the stock fan with the recommended XS-2, and guess what? The temps did NOT go down at all. In fact, after only running for a few hours, the ODT was showing 71 degrees!


You may want to check which model of the BlackSilent Fan you received. It comes in both 3,000 RPM and 4,000 RPM versions. The higher speed fan should give you lower temps than the stock fan.

There has also been a lot of discussion over what the temperature difference between 60C and 70C really means. The processor at 70C is probably well within it's operating spec. It's common for CPU's to be rated for 100C operation. However, I didn't like the temperature of the case when the ODT was at 70C. It was very warm to the touch. And regardless of spec conditions, electronic devices wear out faster at higher temperatures. A difference of 10C can mean a 2X difference in lifetime. And since the case temperature also goes down with the better fan, everything inside the case benefits - including the hard drive, power components, cable card, etc.

The stock fan is perfectly adequate, but if you want a quieter longer lasting BOLT, I would recommend replacing the fan - especially if you are already opening the case to replace the hard drive.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Doc Holiday said:


> There has also been a lot of discussion over what the temperature difference between 60C and 70C really means. The processor at 70C is probably well within it's operating spec. It's common for CPU's to be rated for 100C operation. However, I didn't like the temperature of the case when the ODT was at 70C.


This is partly my concern. I'd be interested in hearing what anyone is finding with a gauge inside the case, as the increased case temperature, long-term, may have an effect on other components.


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## Doc Holiday (Dec 31, 2016)

Granted my hand isn't very well calibrated, but it felt like the outside top of the case also reduced about 10C with the BlackSilent fan.


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## SalemCat (Apr 13, 2006)

What _*size *_is the *Blacksilentfan X-2 ?
*
The fans I'm looking at are 80mm (3.2"), which just seems too big !


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

50mm x 10mm, for the XS-2.


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## SalemCat (Apr 13, 2006)

Redoctobyr said:


> 50mm x 10mm, for the XS-2.


Thank you.

That sounds right.

XS-2 on order for $9.99 shipped thru Newegg.

It's a Plug-N-Play, right ? No soldering ?

(I can solder, but will avoid when possible)


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> This is partly my concern. I'd be interested in hearing what anyone is finding with a gauge inside the case, as the increased case temperature, long-term, may have an effect on other components.


The hard drive needs to be kept below 55 C.

Capacitors are the next concern. Ceramic ones change value while aluminum electrolytic ones have reliability issues. But that only starts to be a concern with temps. above 60 C.

The other electrical components should be rated to at least 70 C.

I think as long as the hard drive and chipset are OK then everything else will be good too.

I still can't convince my wife to let me test her Tivo. Especially during the French Open.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

SalemCat said:


> Thank you.
> 
> That sounds right.
> 
> ...


Correct, PnP, no soldering. Just match the wire colors of the stock fan, in terms of which color wire goes to which pin.

The stock fan is 2 wires, the XS-2 is 3 wires, but the 3rd wire goes unused (it would provide RPM feedback to the device, if it was used). So make note of how the stock fan is connected, and connect the XS-2 the same way. If you have a multimeter, you can check which pin is ground, and which is ~12V, as a second way to confirm how the fan should plug in.

Test it with the case still open, before closing it all back up again. Make sure the fan is spinning, and is blowing the air down, out of the case, the way the stock fan does.

The Bolt has a little plastic frame that holds the fan down. Take that off the stock fan, and make sure of which way the XS-2 blows the air, before snapping it into the plastic frame. Then mount it to the Bolt.

None of it is hard, just things to keep in mind. The new fan can probably mount in 2 directions, but you want to make sure the air is blowing in the proper direction, etc.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

I got my PWM-fan splitter cable, and last week was about to open my Bolt, to try running the XS-2 off a constant 12V source, rather than the normal 12V-PWM source. 

But I rebooted my Bolt first, to see how loud the XS-2 is during the first ~30 seconds of startup, and was surprised at how audible it was at full speed. When I had the fan out in the open, before installing it, 12V seemed much quieter. Maybe some of the noise is from the air rushing through the vents, the case amplifying the noise, etc. So I held off for the time being. 

If I really wanted to get fancy, I could use the splitter cable to wire-in a small potentiometer, to let me adjust the speed of the fan. In an ideal world, it would be external, so I could adjust the speed without opening the case (which, to be frank, is a bit of a PITA, and I worry about breaking the clips). 

For now, I've left the XS-2 as-is, and raised the Bolt off the shelf, by putting some plastic caps under the case, for better airflow.


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## SalemCat (Apr 13, 2006)

Redoctobyr said:


> I got my PWM-fan splitter cable, and last week was about to open my Bolt, to try running the XS-2 off a constant 12V source, rather than the normal 12V-PWM source.
> 
> But I rebooted my Bolt first, to see how loud the XS-2 is during the first ~30 seconds of startup, and was surprised at how audible it was at full speed. When I had the fan out in the open, before installing it, 12V seemed much quieter. Maybe some of the noise is from the air rushing through the vents, the case amplifying the noise, etc. So I held off for the time being.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't a Pot just heat up?
I know, not much, but although it would help reduce the noise, it would simply increase the heat.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

Yes, it would heat up a bit. But the fan draws like 0.07A, as I recall. At 12V, the entire load of the fan is under 1W. So dropping the voltage by a little bit would put a fraction of a watt into the pot, not something that I'd really worry about. 

The advantage would be being able to run the fan faster than the Bolt does normally, on the normal speed-controlled fan plug. But still keeping it quieter than if supplying it the full 12V. I think it would be a net improvement in cooling. 

Other simple-but-effective methods of slowing the fan down could be used as well, if there were suggestions. The bigger "problem" may be that you can't easily keep the adjuster accessible while running. And running the Bolt with a cover not fully installed would change the airflow pattern, and might reduce the air passing over certain areas. The air is currently drawn through the little vents under the case, forcing it through the areas that TiVo intended.


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## SalemCat (Apr 13, 2006)

Redoctobyr said:


> Yes, it would heat up a bit. But the fan draws like 0.07A, as I recall. At 12V, the entire load of the fan is under 1W. So dropping the voltage by a little bit would put a fraction of a watt into the pot, not something that I'd really worry about.
> 
> The advantage would be being able to run the fan faster than the Bolt does normally, on the normal speed-controlled fan plug. But still keeping it quieter than if supplying it the full 12V. I think it would be a net improvement in cooling.
> 
> Other simple-but-effective methods of slowing the fan down could be used as well, if there were suggestions. The bigger "problem" may be that you can't easily keep the adjuster accessible while running. And running the Bolt with a cover not fully installed would change the airflow pattern, and might reduce the air passing over certain areas. The air is currently drawn through the little vents under the case, forcing it through the areas that TiVo intended.


Pots are stupid.

They are essentially coils of wire. The only way they slow anything down is by converting current into heat.

They are essentially Resistors that can be adjusted.

They can't make a fan run faster, only slower - and yes, quieter.

So if you start with a fan that is more than adequate for cooling, but is noisy, and then slow it down with a pot, so everything is quieter, but still cool enough - the pot has done its job.

But that's the only thing it can do.


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## SalemCat (Apr 13, 2006)

SalemCat said:


> Pots are stupid.
> 
> They are essentially coils of wire. The only way they slow anything down is by converting current into heat.
> 
> ...


Anyhow, my ears suck from years of Rock-N-Roll, so I'm not the best judge of Fan Noise being annoying. I just crank them up and watch the degrees drop.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

SalemCat said:


> Pots are stupid.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't explain fully. I know that pots are just dumb adjustable resistors, and can't speed the fan up. But:

- The stock fan is a "normal" fan (2 wires), but the Bolt controls the speed using Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) of the 12V power that it receives. They turn the 12V on/off very quickly to speed the fan up, or slow it down. If the Bolt chooses, it can run it at full-speed, using a full & constant 12V, but most of the time the fan is running slower (as an example, getting the 12V only 50% of the time, and getting 0V the other 50%). You'll hear this full speed noise as the Bolt initially boots up.

- What I was describing was based on using a second, always-on, constant 12V source, like the plug on the motherboard that powers the hard drive. Split that 12V source, and power the fan from that. That should run the fan at full-speed, for max cooling. But as I learned, even with the quieter XS-2 fan, it would still be audible. So I was contemplating using that 12V source, but lowering the voltage a little bit with a pot, to get more cooling than typical, but less noise than if using the full 12V.


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## SalemCat (Apr 13, 2006)

Redoctobyr said:


> Sorry, I didn't explain fully. I know that pots are just dumb adjustable resistors, and can't speed the fan up. But:
> 
> - The stock fan is a "normal" fan (2 wires), but the Bolt controls the speed using Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) of the 12V power that it receives. They turn the 12V on/off very quickly to speed the fan up, or slow it down. If the Bolt chooses, it can run it at full-speed, using a full & constant 12V, but most of the time the fan is running slower (as an example, getting the 12V only 50% of the time, and getting 0V the other 50%). You'll hear this full speed noise as the Bolt initially boots up.
> 
> - What I was describing was based on using a second, always-on, constant 12V source, like the plug on the motherboard that powers the hard drive. Split that 12V source, and power the fan from that. That should run the fan at full-speed, for max cooling. But as I learned, even with the quieter XS-2 fan, it would still be audible. So I was contemplating using that 12V source, but lowering the voltage a little bit with a pot, to get more cooling than typical, but less noise than if using the full 12V.


Thank you for clarifying your plan.

It makes sense now.

If I encounter excessive heat I'll try that - though I'm not that sensitive to fan noise, and would not use a pot.

If you do identify a suitable pot, though, I'm certain there are many members who would appreciate a recommendation.


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## ropedrag (Oct 6, 2003)

Bought a Bolt 3 weeks ago and was struck on how noisy the thing is, google search etc.... must be the fan like everyone is saying. Ordered up a couple of Fractal Silent Series R3's (extra one for a friend). So I swap the fan and guess what, still noisy as hell, try the 2nd fan I bought and again the same annoying noise. So finding some time I removed the cover for further investigation and discovered the noise is actually coming off the board. I've enough lead wire to hold the fan some distance from the unit to determine it isn't the fan making the noise its the whiny pitched noise that could fool us into thinking its a fan motor going right off the board. Further searching and I've read that several people have changed the fan without a noticeable improvement but while I'm mechanically inclined I have no knowledge of what could be making the noise, all I know is that it's annoying as hell. 

Just so its clear, fan plugged into the 2 pin connection generates a whiny pitched noise from the board, does not matter if the fan is OEM or other,... fan not plugged in equals no noise.

My Bolt lives in an AV cabinet out of sight so I've removed the fan and left the cover off. I'll monitor the temp


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

Yes, this electronic buzzing noise has been discussed in at least one recent fan-noise thread. Powering the fan with an external source, or the Bolt's USB port, for instance, will eliminate the noise. 

The 2-pin fan plug is controlled using PWM to turn the 12V source on and off very quickly, to allow varying the fan speed. It is apparently this switching that produces the electronic buzzing sound. Some Bolts are either different, however, or some of us are less sensitive, as I did not notice this buzzing noise with mine, just the fan noise. 

In post #63, and some earlier posts in this thread, I was describing a possible approach for getting a full 12V source inside the Bolt's case, by tapping into the power supply for the hard drive. I got a splitter cable for $4 on Newegg that I think would let me tap into that 12V source, without making any permanent changes to the Bolt or its cables. But I haven't tried the cable yet, as I'm not sure if I want my fan running at the full 12V speed. And opening the Bolt's case makes me a bit nervous about damaging the clips, so I'm not just taking it apart for fun.


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## ropedrag (Oct 6, 2003)

Thanks Redoctobyr, good information. I like the idea of powering the fan off the usb, seems like a reasonable fix but I'll have to figure it out which is the hard part.

And yes its quite easy to snap off the plastic tabs on the smaller of the two covers, cover removal is super easy just needs a little TLC on that one part.


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## Redoctobyr (Jun 21, 2008)

Can't look it up right now, but in one of the recent fan threads, I thought one person posted some info about how they used the USB port to power their fan. That might provide a starting point. 

The main thing I like about using the Bolt's USB port is that it has power whenever the Bolt is on. If using an external power supply instead (also a viable option, with more choices for voltage and therefore fan speed), that supply could fail, shutting down the fan, without you realizing it. Probably a low risk, but still not ideal. If you just wanted 12V, you *could* tap into the output of the Bolt's actual power supply. That supply is guaranteed to be on when the Bolt is running, of course.


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