# Tribune Persuaded to Add Zone Thriller & TrueMovies 1 & 2 Program Details to Tivo EPG



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> During today and tomorrow, the listings for Tru Movies, Tru Movies 2 and Zone Thriller will appear.
> 
> Hopefully the schedule source is now reliable.


As you can see from the email trail below I am the main person who through persistence has helped to bring this about depite the best efforts of Sky Tivo Customer Service to persistently lie to several of us by telling us that the problem was that Zone Thriller and TrueMovies 1 and 2 etc were completely unwilling to provide the relevant EPG details to Tribune (totally untrue as the email below from George Hills at Zone Media shows).

Also the US office of Tribune has happily been more then willing to take this issue on board directly once they became aware that Sky Tivo Customer service were simply blocking all complaints about the issue from reaching them.

The message therefore is that persistence pays off and that contacting the company concerned for whom program details are missing on the Tivo EPG is likely to be far more effective than hitting your head against the brickwall that is Sky Tivo Customer Service. And don't forget that these small channels really care about bumping up their viewer numbers far more than the big ones do.

Now if only we could also get the EPG details added for Bonanza and Movies4Men 1 & 2 as well. On the whole I think it is only this handful of Sky Freesat channels with no EPG data that have really been causing an issue. Surely no one wants to regularly record shopping channels, quiz channels or even music channels? Although I suppose someone may tell me that they regularly want to record a program on Baby Tv or Wine Tv????



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mann, Amy A.
> Sent: 23 October 2006 18:10
> Subject: FW: TrueMovies EPG Data Not Being Received by Tivo/Tribune Media Services
> ...


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Bonanza would be nice. Now you know how to do it I'll leave it to you


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Bonanza would be nice. Now you know how to do it I'll leave it to you


I think given that Bonanza has a channel number of 165 and that everything else between 101 and 199 is basically a mainstream program channel that it really ought to have listings on Tivo. As for Movies4Men I think they could have picked a better name since they aren't really Adult Movies at all but only MoviesThatMayAppealToBlokesMoreThanGirls.

I don't know what determines if a channel gets a channel number of 165 on Sky rather than only 207 or 209 which even Five US and Five Life have been relegated to on Sky (presumably 101 to 299 is allocated to general entertainment channels).

Is it purely a question of how soon you ask for a new channel number from Sky and if it is still available or is it also down to how much money you are willing to pay to Sky I wonder. Bonanza is not such a bad channel apart of course from all the 09 phoney scam quiz stuff which will continue until such time as the pathetically weak telecoms regulator Ofcom finally closes these scam quizzes down and/or home phone numbers are disabled from automatically being able to make 09 calls unless the bill payer specifically asks to enable the feature hopefully with PIN number protection too.

I think with these various channels that EPG details have just been added for it also helped that ZoneMedia is pretty keen on expanding its overall profile and seems to have good working contacts at TMS who they were prepared to initiate the dialogue with. I never did a get reply from the shadowey ChartShow.tv mob who ultimately own TrueMovies 1 & 2 although a look at the viewing figures for TrueMovies compared to many other Freesat channels I think makes the case for providing proper listings for those channels very strong indeed. By contrast I doubt that Wine Tv has anywhere near the same viewing numbers...........


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> I don't know what determines if a channel gets a channel number of 165 on Sky rather than only 207 or 209 which even Five US and Five Life have been relegated to on Sky (presumably 101 to 299 is allocated to general entertainment channels).
> 
> Is it purely a question of how soon you ask for a new channel number from Sky and if it is still available or is it also down to how much money you are willing to pay to Sky I wonder. Bonanza is not such a bad channel apart of course from all the 09 phoney scam quiz stuff which will continue until such time as the pathetically weak telecoms regulator Ofcom finally closes these scam quizzes down and/or home phone numbers are disabled from automatically being able to make 09 calls unless the bill payer specifically asks to enable the feature hopefully with PIN number protection too.


EPG numbers are allocated as a channel is due on air and gets the next available slot.

The only exception is 101-105 which are allocated to the five main channels.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> History HD schedules (for those that want them) will appear in Friday's download - late release by Sky.


Does Sky pay Tribune to carry listings for a channel like Sky HD because its one of its own channels but it couldn't care less about TrueMovies which it has taken a paid EPG listing for from TrueMovies but doesn't make any money out of selling to customers?

It seems odd that a channel like History HD that almost no one is watching gets EPG listings straight away while channels that plenty of people were watching like TrueMovies didn't have any.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Sky provide their listings direct - other channels are not so easy.

True Movies used to provide listings and then stopped - which is why they stopped on TiVo.

There are still a few channels which refuse to provide listings - because they will not pay for somebody to send them in a readable format.

I used to do listings and some channels just can not be bothered to provide them.


It is a requirement of being in the Sky EPG that you provide Sky with the listings in an agreed format. But this (non-text) format has additional info in it which is not for (or of interest) to the public - so it is not just a case a sending that file to all.

I've noticed that some channels EPGs on Sky are not (always) correct.


If a channel provides advance listings and gaurantees them each week then there shouldn't be a problem. But a lot of channels will not do this.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> EPG numbers are allocated as a channel is due on air and gets the next available slot.
> 
> The only exception is 101-105 which are allocated to the five main channels.


So why have the following not been allocated to or at least are not currently used by any channel:-

100, 117, 132, 136, 143, 144, 147, 149, 154, 156, 158, 160, 162, 164, 166, 167, 170, 171, 172, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 184, 186, 188, 190, 191, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200, 204 and 206

Just to name those not used prior to the 207 and 209 mysteriously assigned to Five Life and Five US.

Or are the other channel numbers all allocated to broadcasting companies that have previously requested them but that are currently not using them? Also is there no time limit to how long a broadcasting company can hang on to a channel number without using it then?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> It is a requirement of being in the Sky EPG that you provide Sky with the listings in an agreed format. But this (non-text) format has additional info in it which is not for (or of interest) to the public - so it is not just a case a sending that file to all.


Or equally likely I suppose is that Sky have required companies supplying data in this special format to them to enter into an agreement which says it is their intellectual property and that the channel cannot supply its listings in this format to anyone else.

This immediately ensures at a stroke that no one else who starts up a rival DSat service is likely to have as full a set of listings as Sky until the marketplace sees them as being as important as Sky (because having to produce all your program listings again in another format is a real bore). Having said that I should have thought the likes of TrueMovies and Zone would be pretty keen to ensure they have EPG listings in any rival FreeSat box and dish service to Sky launched and marketed by BBC/ITV. I imagine this service will enable receipt of BBC and ITV HD programs without needing a Sky sub or box.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

and your slot will actually be 2 numbers (or 3) depening on the contract etc.

100 will not be used for tv - but possibly could have a info channel - although I don't think it would be allowed. Cable tv have previews on 100, BBC1 on 101 etc.

So if Pete77TV was allocated 211 (the next available slot) then you would also get 212 reserved.

You used to get 3 channels - so 211 would reserve you 212 and 213 - but I think you only get 1 extra now unless you contract for more.

These extra are dependent on slots being available - so it wouldn't work for "Pete77's late night chat to the girls TV" channel in the adult section.

Sky are not allowed to move channels without agreement with the channels - and an allocated number usually remains with the channel - even if it doesn't launch or later closes.



Pete77 said:


> So why have the following not been allocated to or at least are not currently used by any channel:-
> 
> 100, 117, 132, 136, 143, 144, 147, 149, 154, 156, 158, 160, 162, 164, 166, 167, 170, 171, 172, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 184, 186, 188, 190, 191, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200, 204 and 206
> 
> ...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Sky are not allowed to move channels without agreement with the channels - and an allocated number usually remains with the channel - even if it doesn't launch or later closes.


Any particular reason for 174 to 178 inclusive to all be currently not in use?

Presumably Open Access (whoever they are) who have 172 and 173 may have brought them all up front or they belong to a channel that is no longer in operation?

I imagine companies allocated numbers can agree to release them to another broadcaster if enough money if offered?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

175-177 are used in Northern Ireland only.


Pete77 said:


> Any particular reason for 174 to 178 inclusive to all be currently not in use?
> 
> Presumably Open Access (whoever they are) who have 172 and 173 may have brought them all up front or they belong to a channel that is no longer in operation?
> 
> I imagine companies allocated numbers can agree to release them to another broadcaster if enough money if offered?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> 175-177 are used in Northern Ireland only.


Or at least only if you have a smart card that says you are in NI. 

Why don't they have their local regional channels (or at least their local regional adverising variants for 104 and 105) stuck on 101, 102, 103, 104 and 105 as happens in England, Scotland and Wales?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Or at least only if you have a smart card that says you are in NI.
> 
> Why don't they have their local regional channels (or at least their local regional adverising variants for 104 and 105) stuck on 101, 102, 103, 104 and 105 as happens in England, Scotland and Wales?


NI do have BBC1, BBC2 ITV etc on 101-105 - but also have Irish channels in the EPG on 175-177.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> NI do have BBC1, BBC2 ITV etc on 101-105 - but also have Irish channels in the EPG on 175-177.


Hmmm. I thought they were part of the UK. So surely either everyone on Sky Digital should be able to see the Irish channels or no one at all.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Following today's Tivo Daily Call True Movies now has full movie listing details including movie description and even star ratings (for those films they are showing that have them) up to November 13th and Zone Thriller until early hours of November 15th. No listings as yet for TrueMovies2. Perhaps they will appear tomorrow?

I see Dolphin Television is behind Movies4Men and has no connection with ChartShow Tv who run TrueMovies. Looks like another email in that quarter might be worthwhile. Unfortunately the Contact Us link on their website is currently broken. See www.movies4men.co.uk


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Republic of Ireland is not a part of the UK.

Some RoI channels are available in Ireland - but not all programmes on them are.

As a broadcaster - it is up to you what regions you buy programmes for and where to make them available.

Most programme rights are by country - this is why some Scottish programmes are not available via satellite (ie football).

RTE's football in blocked in Northern Ireland - but RTE tend to buy for Repubic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

BBC/ITV tend to buy for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.


Pete77 said:


> Hmmm. I thought they were part of the UK. So surely either everyone on Sky Digital should be able to see the Irish channels or no one at all.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Most programme rights are by country - this is why some Scottish programmes are not available via satellite (ie football).
> 
> RTE's football in blocked in Northern Ireland - but RTE tend to buy for Repubic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
> 
> BBC/ITV tend to buy for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.


But from an EU and International perspective Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England are all Regions of just one country - the United Kingdom. They are no more different countries than different Landers in Germany. Of course historically they were different countries but then so were the different principalities of Italy etc, etc. Clearly Mr Blair has muddied the waters a bit of late though by giving Scotland and Wales their own Parliaments but not England and currently not Northern Ireland until they are good boys. Thus not all Regions of the UK have equal status as regions.

So it sounds like television rights can be licensed down to a regional basis and there is no reason why a channel might not pay only for the rights to broadcast something in the London, or South East or South West Sky etc regions of England? Clearly from a technical standpoint it would be perfectly feasible.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Rugby was only broadcast on BBC2 North regions for a long while - so unavailable across the rest of the UK (including most of England).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Rugby was only broadcast on BBC2 North regions for a long while - so unavailable across the rest of the UK (including most of England).


And even now there are regional tv newses that are transmitted only in that particular region of England.............................


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

EPG details for Truemovies 2 have also now begun to be delivered.

And my Wishlists have picked up no less than three movies off Truemovies in the next couple of weeks.

One of them is one I actually want to watch on the Korean Air lines plane the Americans shot down and the impact on some of the relatiives.

Also in the Films section of the Highlights module of TivoWeb the list of daily movies I have available has been considerably extended by the addition of the TrueMovies and Thriller EPG data.

Next project for EPG addition is Movies4Men although to be honest there are only very occasional gems on that channel.


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> One of them is one I actually want to watch on the Korean Air lines plane the Americans shot down and the impact on some of the relatiives.
> 
> .


Which one was that? Or do you mean Korean Air Flight KE007 shot down by the Russians?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

daveh said:


> Which one was that? Or do you mean Korean Air Flight KE007 shot down by the Russians?


Yes that one rather than the Korean Air 747 that the pilots flew into a hill approaching the airport on the US colony of Guam. It was at 2pm today though so you have missed it although Truemovies are almost bound to be showing it again some time in the next few weeks.


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## Richardr (Oct 20, 2000)

Back to Northern Ireland, there were special provisions as part of the Good Friday agreement re the copyright situation in Northern Ireland, which made it easier for RTE (and other Irish broadcasters) to broadcast directly to Northern Ireland. These don't apply to the rest of the UK.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Richardr said:


> Back to Northern Ireland, there were special provisions as part of the Good Friday agreement re the copyright situation in Northern Ireland, which made it easier for RTE (and other Irish broadcasters) to broadcast directly to Northern Ireland. These don't apply to the rest of the UK.


I suppose with Northern Ireland only being a million or so people it created far less rights issues than broadcasting to the UK as a whole. Although in view of the fact that the channels broadcast in English (or at least Irish English) and that there are a huge number of Irish born people living in the UK it seems crazy that these channels don't at least have a slot somewhere on Sky/Dsat/Freesat.


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## adamx101 (Nov 4, 2006)

Good work on getting them added. Try here for a Movies4Men contact. They have full EPG data on Sky, so you would think it would be no problem. >

info(at)dolphintv(dot)com



Pete77 said:


> Next project for EPG addition is Movies4Men although to be honest there are only very occasional gems on that channel.


I would of agreed with you several months back as I never used to watch these channels, but they have fairly changed; the channels seem to be getting the same or more viewers than the Sky subscription backed Movies24. When Movies4Men launched, they were still mainly using the Matinee/Bad Movies library, which they bought. Now they are showing some of the biggest Hollywood films from the 1940/50s, whilst Movies4Men 2 has had fairly new-ish action flicks on.


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