# Veronica Mars 5/10 "Leave it to Beaver" *Spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

WOW! Aaron Echols was having an affair with Lilly! So who do you think knocked on Veronica's door at the end? I am guessing Duncan...


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Who's your daddy?? 

A most excellent episode. Nice twists, tension, scariness!

Perfect.

So, was it Logan or Duncan at the door?? I'm just not sure. Probably Duncan.


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## bentleyml (May 21, 2003)

My question is what happened to Logan? Did Weevil and his gang beat him up? Kill him? 

As to who was at the door... I'm leaning towards Wallace. Although anyone is possible.

I really want to see bad stuff happen to Veronica's mom. I should say further bad stuff.

Good stuff. :up: :up: :up:


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

bentleyml said:


> My question is what happened to Logan? Did Weevil and his gang beat him up? Kill him?


My guess, Veronica was about to make another call following the call to her dad just as the scene closed. I think she was calling Weevil.

Good point on Wallace being at the door! She did call his mom to go to the hospital, that might have been the trigger to send him to Veronica's.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Yeah good point on Wallace. Was her mom stealing the big check at the end?


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Yes, she was! :down:


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## maxxl (Feb 19, 2005)

they all suck. i hated it....ok i didnt hate it but i want to know more more more....yeah i never thought of wallace...now thats just another one in the mix....was that the season finale???? Im so ticked...did i say i want to know more...im so sad and pitiful that this bothers me so much huh.


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## mnMark (Jul 21, 2004)

markp99 said:


> Yes, she was! :down:


That'll be good for S02E01 and 02 for next season, right? Veronica should have hunting her mom down to a science by now


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I thought it was a good episode. I really thought that Celeste was going to be the one who killed Lily. I thought the climactic confrontation with Aaron was a little bit intense - felt more like a Lethal Weapon movie than a Veronica Mars episode!

I'm betting it was Duncan at the end. I think Veronica has chosen against Logan too many times for him to give her another chance. My guess is season two will start with him hating her as much as he did at the beginning of season one.

Leann Mars is an evil witch. I can't figure out how she and Keith stayed together for 15 or 16 years or however long. And I can't believe she took the money! Evil. She blew Veronia's college money and then she stole the replacement money.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

I'll take my credit now 

OUTSTANDING season finale. Solved the big mystery in an interesting, twisting, but logically consistent manner. Involved all of the major characters in some way or another (though we didn't get much Wallace). Finally resolved Veronica's paternity (and it was PERFECT, with her signing unquestionably before she knew). And left plenty of threads dangling for next season.

1. What's up with Mommy - she definitely stole the $50,000 check at the end (though Keith is probably due a much larger reward check for solving Lilly's murder).
2. What happened with the Weevil/Logan showdown? (See the next comment for my partial answer)
3. Who was at Veronica's door (I'm betting Logan - we start next season with him explaining to Veronica how he got out of the showdown).
4. Where's the Keith/Wallace's Mom relationship going? (I gotta guess that the divorce papers get filed and Keith starts moving on).
5. What will happen with the Kanes with regard to the obstruction of justice charge? What happens to Logan if they have to do a bit of time?


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

I started watching this show late and came to this forum even later,and I just wanted to say a few things.First,kudos to all you regulars on here-the insight you bring to this show is truely amazing.Reading over last weeks thread and seeing how much of what was said on here turned out to be important in this episode...wow.You guys know this show well,and I have to admit I can't see myself watching it without checking this board afterwards-it adds alot to an already great viewing experience.So,thank you all.
I have to agree this was an excellent finale to a very interesting season-some real heart touching moments,esp,Veronica's reaction when she finds out Keith is her father,and her rush of I love yous when hes seriously hurt...but the best moment had to be the dog in the car when Aaron got in-priceless!


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

I've been getting crappy HD reception on UPN lately, but I soldiered through the pixellation and audio dropouts. Wow, that was very impressive. It made very good use of Harry Hamlin being a regular guest star all season. 

I'm disappointed that Leann screwed up again, but hey, it happens.

I'm excited that the way is clear for Duncan and Veronica to have some trials and tribulations.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Echoing everything everyone said. I'm not sure I could have scripted a better finale. Tense, emotional, suspenseful, the usual dose of humor -- fantastic. My one quibble is (as it usually is) with Weevil. He was, overall, not the most necessary character this season. The only way they could get him in this episode at all was to, in the clumsiest of plot contrivances, just happen to have him inside the doorway of an empty classroom as Veronica just happened to be outside the same doorway discussing the possibility with her dad that Logan was the killer. Granted this set up a bit of a cliffhanger with Logan and Weevil at the end (no doubt on the same bridge where Logan's mom jumped; nice touch) but there were probably other ways to have gotten there that wouldn't have been started so artificially. I'm also not terribly fond of the killer in the back seat device, especially since Veronica's car is a convertible. It wouldn't exactly have been hard to see him back there. But these are a minor complaints overall.

As for who the killer is, I had been mostly avoiding speculation in recent episode threads, preferring to either hatch my own theory or just be surprised. Lately I've been thinking about Roger Ebert's Law of Economy of Characters, which essentially says that biggest name actor with the least to do is most likely whodunnit. On that basis, I had concluded that it was likely to be Aaron, and after the camera in the poolhouse last week I was feeling pretty confident. I'm happy to have been right, and even happier that it didn't turn out to spoil this terrific episode in the slightest.

Can anyone think of any clues during the season that were left hanging? One that I can think of is the note inside Lilly's pen that Weevil broke into the Kane mansion to steal a few eps back. The implication was that the note was significant in some way, but we never revisited it. One possibility is that the note was the one that Logan left that never turned up, but I doubt that. Another is that the whole thing was a red herring, and still another is that it's just a plot hole. Any ideas? Any other similar details anyone can think of?

Anyway, a strong end to a very strong season of a great show. I'm excited that it is coming back next year. Can't wait to see what's in store.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Agreed on the pen thing. I thought Veronica was going back to Lilly's room to find Logan's note in the pen. They really dropped that thread.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Pretty good episode, but I thought there would be one more twist at the end; it kind of disappointed me it was Aaron Echols. I don't know why.

My bet is on Wallace being at the door at the end. I think Veronica made that last call to Weevil to find Logan and explain everything. Yeah, I'm not the first to say it, but I'm too lazy to go find the post and quote it.  

They should have left more hanging at the end. I wish they would have had Veronica be Kane's daughter... it would have added a huge dynamic to the show and lots of issues that would have provided great dramatic fodder. They played the Mom thing perfectly... giving Veronica closure on that issue.

All in all things were wrapped up a little too neatly for my taste. It's like they didn't expect to be renewed next season, and wanted to wrap up the DVD set in a nice bow to sell to fans. 

I did enjoy it though. I'm just being nitpicky.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I thought the opposite, i thought they might have changed the script, or filmed new scenes BECAUSE they were picked up for next season.

They left a lot open. I'm not sure a show that was filmed without the knowledge of them coming back would leave that Logan/Weevil thing open like that.

-smak-


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

On this show, that wouldn't really surprise me... When has this show ever wrapped thing up in a pretty little bow? I'm pretty sure that the ending would have been the same even if they didn't get a second season. 

But, wow, what a fantastic episode to cap off a fantastic season! There was a lot of resolution, and everything seemed to flow so naturally it didn't feel rushed. My hat's really off to the show's writers. This has consistently been one of the best written shows on network TV. I put the writing right up where with Deadwood, Carnivale and The Shield. I know none of those are on network TV, but the best show at the moment are on cable. Battlestar Galactica, The Dead Zone, and Nip/Tuck are right up there with them. 

I'm so looking forward to this show's Sophomore Season...


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## krsjuan (Apr 13, 2002)

Best new series ever.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

I was a little bit disappointed with the solution of the murder too-it seemed almost convenient and more than a little too neat.But strangely,that gives me higher hopes for the next season,because the episode was still very good.I'm glad they're concentrating more on the characters and less on a killer twist ending for the show's appeal.


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## RyanPlante (Dec 20, 2001)

This may be a stretch but...

With all this happening, Weevil read's the note in the pen, it is the note from Logan. Weevil realizes that it is NOT Logan who killed Lilly, and talks him down from killing himself. They have been shown to have a connection of sorts in the past. Not really friends, but they seem to get each other.


ryan


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

My guess was that it was Wallace at the door, although it was written so it could have been anybody.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Anyone noticed the cop-boyfriend was nowhere to be seen? I guess they drop the whole plot.

Here's another question for next year:

Will Veronica be part of the "In" crowd of high school?


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

markp99 said:


> Agreed on the pen thing. I thought Veronica was going back to Lilly's room to find Logan's note in the pen. They really dropped that thread.


While she might suspect that the note had been kept in the pen, she also knew that Weevil had already gotten to the pen and emptied it. So there wouldn't be any reason to go to Lilly's room looking for the pen.

Now that might have been a reason to try to break into Weevil's place, but that seems like a much riskier proposition.

I did like the nice touch where Lilly was in too much of a hurry to screw the AC vent back in place before slipping out to the pool, so the vent was still unscrewed when Veronica got to it.
However that really should have been a plot hole, since the Keith and the police went over Lilly's room. While they might not normally think to check behind the AC vent, the screws hanging out of it should have been a big hit to look. Which would have led them to the incriminating video tapes much sooner.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

dtle said:


> Anyone noticed the cop-boyfriend was nowhere to be seen? I guess they drop the whole plot.
> 
> Here's another question for next year:
> 
> Will Veronica be part of the "In" crowd of high school?


After getting a movie star and the richest guy in town arrested? (who are also the fathers people prominently in the "in" crowd). I'm betting not


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## soupcan (May 11, 2005)

Jonathan_S said:


> While she might suspect that the note had been kept in the pen, she also knew that Weevil had already gotten to the pen and emptied it. So there wouldn't be any reason to go to Lilly's room looking for the pen.
> 
> Now that might have been a reason to try to break into Weevil's place, but that seems like a much riskier proposition.
> 
> ...


Actually, I'm pretty sure that Aaron Echolls was in the process of unscrewing the vent when Veronica entered the room. When Veronica dropped the catering tray outside it gave him warning that someone was coming. While Veronica and Duncan were in the room there was someone watching from the Closet. He must have hidden in the closet and then didn't want to confront Veronica until she was on her own, thus he hid in her car. The sheriff's deputy who came with the search warrant to the Echolls' house earlier in the episode mentioned that they wanted to search Logan's airvent since "sometimes kids hide things in there". Since the tapes had never surfaced, he realized that they were probably hidden in the air vent in Lilly's room. Thus, thats why he went looking for them at that party, being the first instance after realizing this that he'd be able to get into Lilly's room.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

soupcan said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure that Aaron Echolls was in the process of unscrewing the vent when Veronica entered the room. While Veronica and Duncan were in the room there was someone watching from the Closet. He must have hidden in the closet and then didn't want to confront Veronica until she was on her own, thus he hid in her car. The sheriff's deputy who came with the search warrant to the Echolls' house earlier in the episode mentioned that they wanted to search Logan's airvent since "sometimes kids hide things in there". Since the tapes had never surfaced, he realized that they were probably hidden in the air vent in Lilly's room. Thus, thats why he went looking for them at that party, being the first instance after realizing this that he'd be able to get into Lilly's room.


Ah. That would make sense. Especially with all the camera shots to the partially opened door.

On the other hand, Lilly never did screw the vent back in, she just shoved it in place. Although I suppose the Kanes might have screwed it back in place without looking as part of their crime scene "clean-up".


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Interesting way to connect the dots, soupcan. I like that line of thinking. I'm guessing no one thought to look there at the time of the murder since she was killed outside and the Kanes' already had their plan worked out. 

Also, dtle, Veronica's deputy date wasn't featured since the storyline required the A-hole sheriff that took Keith's job, pointing out that he hadn't made any progress either.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

soupcan said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure that Aaron Echolls was in the process of unscrewing the vent when Veronica entered the room. When Veronica dropped the catering tray outside it gave him warning that someone was coming. While Veronica and Duncan were in the room there was someone watching from the Closet. He must have hidden in the closet and then didn't want to confront Veronica until she was on her own, thus he hid in her car. The sheriff's deputy who came with the search warrant to the Echolls' house earlier in the episode mentioned that they wanted to search Logan's airvent since "sometimes kids hide things in there". Since the tapes had never surfaced, he realized that they were probably hidden in the air vent in Lilly's room. Thus, thats why he went looking for them at that party, being the first instance after realizing this that he'd be able to get into Lilly's room.


Nice first post, *soupcan*. I had figured the rest of that out, but I thought it was strange that Veronica dropped the serving tray for no reason. Now I know why. Thanks.


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## soupcan (May 11, 2005)

wouldworker said:


> Nice first post, *soupcan*. I had figured the rest of that out, but I thought it was strange that Veronica dropped the serving tray for no reason. Now I know why. Thanks.


Yeah, when she dropped the tray, my brother and I joked about how that must have been an outtake that they decided to keep in. Then it ended up being significant. I really like how things seem to come together nicely in this show. I think it will be a good show to watch again on DVD to catch some of the smaller occurances like that.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

soupcan said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure that Aaron Echolls was in the process of unscrewing the vent when Veronica entered the room. When Veronica dropped the catering tray outside it gave him warning that someone was coming. While Veronica and Duncan were in the room there was someone watching from the Closet. He must have hidden in the closet and then didn't want to confront Veronica until she was on her own, thus he hid in her car. The sheriff's deputy who came with the search warrant to the Echolls' house earlier in the episode mentioned that they wanted to search Logan's airvent since "sometimes kids hide things in there". Since the tapes had never surfaced, he realized that they were probably hidden in the air vent in Lilly's room. Thus, thats why he went looking for them at that party, being the first instance after realizing this that he'd be able to get into Lilly's room.


Echoing everyone else with kudos for this observation. I didn't mention it in my prior post in this thread, but one other thing that bothered me about this ep is what Aaron was doing just hanging out in Lilly's closet to begin with. Your explanation for that is perfect. Really sustains my admiration for the writing in this show. It's very clever, and rewards attentive viewing.


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## holee (Dec 12, 2000)

I liked it, but the resolution wasn't as huge as it could have been. There's no way there were any significant clues throughout the season that led to the solution, and Veronica just realizing where the stash was?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

holee said:


> I liked it, but the resolution wasn't as huge as it could have been. There's no way there were any significant clues throughout the season that led to the solution, and Veronica just realizing where the stash was?


Are you saying it felt like luck? I sort of know what you mean, but realistically there wasn't a whole lot more that they could have done, I don't think. There just aren't that many characters available to draw from, and pulling in someone new at the last minute to pin it on wouldn't be satisfying at all. As far as the clues go, I like what they did. There were enough clues throughout the season that contributed to the final solution, and many of the rest proved irrelevant but led to new thinking that in turn led to the the next clue. And if some of it played like luck, I'm even OK with that. I think all of that is sort of how most real investigations go.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

holee - I have to disagree with you that the conclusion wasn't related to the clues that built up over the course of the season.
1. A good part of the season was spent eliminating other, seemingly more likely, candidates.
2. We learned that Aaron Echols has an incredibly violent temper.
3. We learned that Aaron Echols, at least until very recently, had virtually no functional relationship with his son Logan (such that it would not prevent him from sleeping with Logan's girlfriend).
4. We learned that Aaron Echols has a thing for young blondes (the pumpkin carver)
5. We learned that Lillly liked to do things that would make her mom mad - it's not that much of a stretch from sleeping with Weevil to sleeping with one of her mom's peers.
6. We learned that Lilly liked to have little hiding places - the pen, for example. Nice dramatic irony that she learned the vent trick from Logan.
7. We learned that the Kane family is obsessed with keeping Duncan's health issues a secret, and that they're willing to do almost anything to protect that secret (which is what created the problem with finding the true killer in the first place - they thought they knew the answer, but they were wrong).
8. Much of the early part of the season had to do with getting through the Kanes' smokescreens to uncover the real facts, so that those facts could be used to begin finding the real killer.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

And I liked how Lilly hurrying to get away with the tapes caused her to run the red light. A nicely understated pay-off if you payed attention watching. (Didn't make a big deal out of it, you could just see the red traffic light off behind her to the side of the screen while the camera was focused on Lilly driving.

Since discovering that is one thing that really restarted Veronica's investigation (finding out that Lilly ran a red light after her official time of death). Now we know why she was in enough of a hurry to blow through a stop light.


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

This was a great season. I hope people catch on in the summer and start watching. I think the writing is smart and the cast is great. My wife was freaking out during the whole fire starter scene.


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## Preppy766 (Aug 1, 2004)

I was so excited to watch that I watched it before work

Yaaaaa! Post 1k


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## gerbil42 (Aug 26, 2003)

I was so burning mad last night. I turned this on to watch the finale, only to find out that it was pre-empted here locally in central Washington (we get our UPN feed from UPN 11 in Seattle) and Charter was showing Charter Cable Marketplace....

Thank God for torrents.

AJRitz is the man. Nice call.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I also thought it was Wallace at the door. I don't think it's Duncan: remember his father was _also_ arrested, for obstruction of justice. It seems weird he would show up at Veronica's at 3am after that.

Great episode, I thought. They cleaned things up pretty well and didn't leave any large holes (that they didn't want to leave). I thought the acting was also not that bad, considering. Both of Veronica and Keith's scenes ("I'm your father, Lu...er, Veronica" and "Who's your daddy?") and also Jake's scene at the end when he goes after Aaron... these could all have ended up as groaners but they pulled them off pretty well I thought.

Can't wait 'til next season!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Both of Veronica and Keith's scenes ("I'm your father, Lu...er, Veronica" and "Who's your daddy?") and also Jake's scene at the end when he goes after Aaron... these could all have ended up as groaners but they pulled them off pretty well I thought.


I actually went back and watched the scene with Veronica and her dad a second time, I thought it was so well-played. The two of them play off each other very well. I'm not sure there's a better parent-child relationship depicted on TV today, unusual though this one is.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Why do people think that that it was Wallace at the door at the end? Why would Veronica be "hoping it was you?" I can think of at least three more likely candidates:
1) My favorite candidate - Logan Echolls. He's cleared of Lilly's murder, he wasn't the perv who'd set up the cameras, and the resolution of Lilly's case means as much to him as it does to Veronica. Veronica was hoping it was him so she could apologize for thinking he was the killer.
2) Weevil - All the same reasons as Logan, except for the boyfriend part.
3) Duncan - all of the above, plus the new info that they're definitely not siblings and didn't commit incest.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

AJRitz said:


> Why do people think that that it was Wallace at the door at the end? Why would Veronica be "hoping it was you?" I can think of at least three more likely candidates:
> 1) My favorite candidate - Logan Echolls. He's cleared of Lilly's murder, he wasn't the perv who'd set up the cameras, and the resolution of Lilly's case means as much to him as it does to Veronica. Veronica was hoping it was him so she could apologize for thinking he was the killer.
> 2) Weevil - All the same reasons as Logan, except for the boyfriend part.
> 3) Duncan - all of the above, plus the new info that they're definitely not siblings and didn't commit incest.


Wallace would be arguably the most appropriate, as he is the person she has leaned on the most (of the likely candidates) this season, and probably the person she would want to unburden herself to most of all. That said, I agree that it is unlikely to be him. Realistically, it would be unlikely to be Logan either, as his father was just arrested for murder and Logan is a juvenile. It's not like the cops wouldn't be making every effort to find him. And Veronica's been too up-and-down in her emotions about him to realistically feel anything so quickly, I wouldn't think. Unless all she felt is the need to apologize for suspecting him. Same goes for Duncan. Weevil? Can't get there. So, overall, I conclude that there is nobody at the door, and Veronica has gone insane. Next season takes place in an asylum.


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## bbstarky (Nov 25, 2004)

Lol monty. 

That was a FANTASTIC episode. I am so glad I chose to watch this show, and I followed it for 3 months before it aired. This show was well-written, has humour, action, and then the touchy "chick-flick" moments. I loved this show, and I can't wait for next season.

I think it was either Wallace or Duncan at the door. Wallace because he's been her friend throughout all the ordeals, or Duncan so that they can start over.


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## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

You know,a good way to start the 2nd season would be with Veronica in a coma,with Keith trying to discover who came to the door that fateful night...assuming that doesn't happen I'm going to go out on a limb and say the deputy,whats his name?There clearly was an attraction there on both sides but Veronica was too involved with the murder and the other stuff going on in her life to really connect.With that resolved I would think she would be looking for a fresh start and to get on with her life...After all that has happened I can't really see her wanting to see either Duncan or Logan,at least right away..okay,maybe Duncan


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I doubt if the writers even know who really was at the door.

So what did the episode title "Leave It To Beaver" mean?


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I doubt if the writers even know who really was at the door.
> 
> So what did the episode title "Leave It To Beaver" mean?


Beaver was the nickname of the blond headed kid who came to her early in the episode about Logan's trip to Tijuana and the shotglass.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

What's the whole story with Veronica's mom? Why did she disappear and why did Keith keep it all secret from her and demand she not investigate it, and why was she being watched and why was it to protect Veronica and why was Veronica so clueless about everything?

I could ask similar questions about the other characters and other motives and other plotlines also. This show is so rich in depth, it is hard for me to grasp it all stretched out over several months. Is there a comprehensive summary or explanation of the season written anywhere?


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Actually, Beaver was the smaller, dark haired kid (named Cassidy). He's the one who broke the "code of silence" to Veronica, telling her that Logan left TJ early on the day of Lilly's murder. 

The blond headed surfer dude was named "Dick".


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## scottcohn (Nov 13, 2004)

Did anyone else bring up or notice that there were 3 tapes that Lilly took from the Echolls house and that Veronica found in the vent. I believe that Veronica and Duncan watched 2 of them, the first being Lilly on the day that she died (in the Pep Squad outfit) and the second one was of Lilly and Aaron getting it on. What was on that 3rd tape? And how did Lilly know which tapes to take, besides the one in the recorder when she was in the room? Did Aaron label them? Anyone else have any thoughts or theories?


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

markp99 said:


> Actually, Beaver was the smaller, dark haired kid (named Cassidy). He's the one who broke the "code of silence" to Veronica, telling her that Logan left TJ early on the day of Lilly's murder.
> 
> The blond headed surfer dude was named "Dick".


I knew he said his name wasn't really Beaver when he came to Veronica, but I was having some odd sound issues and I honestly heard him say his name was "Cassie" and he said it twice. I just couldn't wrap my mind around his real name being Cassie, so thanks for explaining that better. It makes much more sense for him to be named Cassidy.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

WinBear said:


> I knew he said his name wasn't really Beaver when he came to Veronica, but I was having some odd sound issues and I honestly heard him say his name was "Cassie" and he said it twice. I just couldn't wrap my mind around his real name being Cassie, so thanks for explaining that better. It makes much more sense for him to be named Cassidy.


It wasn't just you. It did sound like he was saying "Cassie", but Veronica clearly said "Cassidy".


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

scottcohn said:


> What was on that 3rd tape?


The third one was the missing 18 minutes from the Nixon tapes.

Lilly grabbed whatever tapes were handy. Veronica and Duncan watched only two tapes because the second told Veronica everything she needed to know. There was no need to watch the third one.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

scottcohn said:


> What was on that 3rd tape? And how did Lilly know which tapes to take, besides the one in the recorder when she was in the room?


It seemed to me that Lilly just grabbed ALL the tapes as she hurried away. I'll bet there's just more to incriminate Aaron, and maybe Logan??


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## MikeCC (Jun 19, 2004)

markp99 said:


> Actually, Beaver was the smaller, dark haired kid (named Cassidy). He's the one who broke the "code of silence" to Veronica, telling her that Logan left TJ early on the day of Lilly's murder.
> 
> The blond headed surfer dude was named "Dick".


So let me get this straight... They've got a Beaver and Dick on this show?  Man, I've just got to start watchin' the re-runs.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

MikeCC said:


> So let me get this straight... They've got a Beaver and Dick on this show?  Man, I've just got to start watchin' the re-runs.


From 2nd to last episode, DIck (surfer dude) is lamenting Beaver's success with the chicks at the party: Beaver's gettin' al the lovin'; Dick's flapping out in the breeze."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I don't think it could be Logan at the door. Even someone who can be as self-absorbed as Veronica often is isn't going to think that after the events of the past few days, everything between them would be all hunky-dory. And her reaction to whoever it was was worry-free.

To a much lesser extent, the same would apply to Duncan. I think Wallace is the most likely suspect--and since Veronica called Wallace's mom to have her go sit with Keith, he knows it's all over and that she's probably a but freaked out...


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Lurker1 said:


> What's the whole story with Veronica's mom? Why did she disappear and why did Keith keep it all secret from her and demand she not investigate it, and why was she being watched and why was it to protect Veronica and why was Veronica so clueless about everything?


These are good questions. Add to them: what was up with the photos of Veronica with gunsights trained on her? Plot holes or did I miss something?

I believe the original explanation for her disappearance was that she was humiliated by the fall from grace her family took when Keith wrongly tabbed Jake Kane for the murder. As she is clearly a weak individual, this is a reasonable explanation, although it doesn't explain why she was being watched (for example, Veronica seeing Clarence in the bar where she found her mom). I was trying to relate this to the notion that Jake might have been Veronica's father, and since he believed that Duncan killed Lilly, he resorted to scaring Mrs. Mars away to make sure the paternity issue didn't somehow come out and cause the new authorities to come sniffing around his family all over again. But I really can't remember: do we know for sure that Jake and Veronica's mom had an affair, or was it only Keith and Mrs. Kane that suspected it, but with no hard proof (i.e. being caught literally in the act)?


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

I thought this was a great ending. Almost as good as Battlestar Galacticas was.

Thumbs Up.


Rich


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## gerbil42 (Aug 26, 2003)

That's funny, in talking to a friend about it, I compared it to BSG's finale.

I think I said, "it's not as "WTF just happened?!?", but just as satisfying."


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> Can anyone think of any clues during the season that were left hanging? One that I can think of is the note inside Lilly's pen that Weevil broke into the Kane mansion to steal a few eps back. The implication was that the note was significant in some way, but we never revisited it. One possibility is that the note was the one that Logan left that never turned up, but I doubt that. Another is that the whole thing was a red herring, and still another is that it's just a plot hole. Any ideas? Any other similar details anyone can think of?


I thought the pen was a set up for this week's episode. It established that Lily's room was still mostly as she had left it, otherwise there would have been no point in Weevil going in to find the pen. Since they hadn't remodeled the room and turned it into a study or guest room, that increased the likelihood that anything Lily had stashed in her AC vents would still be there.

Jan


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## sfenton (Feb 8, 2004)

cmontyburns said:


> These are good questions. Add to them: what was up with the photos of Veronica with gunsights trained on her? Plot holes or did I miss something?
> 
> I believe the original explanation for her disappearance was that she was humiliated by the fall from grace her family took when Keith wrongly tabbed Jake Kane for the murder. As she is clearly a weak individual, this is a reasonable explanation, although it doesn't explain why she was being watched (for example, Veronica seeing Clarence in the bar where she found her mom). I was trying to relate this to the notion that Jake might have been Veronica's father, and since he believed that Duncan killed Lilly, he resorted to scaring Mrs. Mars away to make sure the paternity issue didn't somehow come out and cause the new authorities to come sniffing around his family all over again. But I really can't remember: do we know for sure that Jake and Veronica's mom had an affair, or was it only Keith and Mrs. Kane that suspected it, but with no hard proof (i.e. being caught literally in the act)?


Celeste Kane wanted Veronica's mother gone. She believed that Veronica was her husband's illegitimate child. Mrs. Kane had security guy from Kane Industries take the photos and then used them to force Veronica's mother to leave town.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

I think the comparison is there because not many shows have great finales.



Rich


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

What happened to Bad Ass Veronica? It seemed totally out of character for her to get all damsel in distress in the end, screaming for help. I expected her to put up more of a fight.

Although in her defense, she was being chased by a mad man, who locked her in a fridge and tried to set her on fire.

While I also think the writers don't know yet who was at the door, isn't Ducan still together with whatshername?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

She's a bad-ass when she has the upper hand, and can intimidate people through her superior knowledge of their evil deeds. In this case, she was in a physical fight with somebody three times her size, and nothing she knew was of any use whatsoever. I think it was very in character for her, when in a rare moment of NOT being in control of the situation, to freak out. Control freaks usually do.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

jschuur said:


> What happened to Bad Ass Veronica? It seemed totally out of character for her to get all damsel in distress in the end, screaming for help. I expected her to put up more of a fight.
> 
> Although in her defense, she was being chased by a mad man, who locked her in a fridge and tried to set her on fire.


And she did drive her car into a tree (or whatever it was).

An aside, related to that scene: Anyone catch the logo on the flower truck that hit Echolls at the end? It was hard to read the second word in the name (possibly "productions"), but the first was Thomas, as in Rob Thomas, VM creator.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

sfenton said:


> Celeste Kane wanted Veronica's mother gone. She believed that Veronica was her husband's illegitimate child. Mrs. Kane had security guy from Kane Industries take the photos and then used them to force Veronica's mother to leave town.


That does sound sort of reasonable, but I'd really like there to be some other explanation. It's hard to see how Jake Kane wouldn't know what Clarence was up to, and also hard to see what Mrs. Kane gets out of it, short of revenge maybe... but that's a dangerous game to play, given that both Keith and Veronica are still in town, are both adept at sleuthing, that Keith knows as much as Mrs. Kane does about the situation, and that the Kanes are trying to cover up what they believe to be the murder of their daughter by their son.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

cmontyburns said:


> That does sound sort of reasonable, but I'd really like there to be some other explanation. It's hard to see how Jake Kane wouldn't know what Clarence was up to, and also hard to see what Mrs. Kane gets out of it, short of revenge maybe... but that's a dangerous game to play, given that both Keith and Veronica are still in town, are both adept at sleuthing, that Keith knows as much as Mrs. Kane does about the situation, and that the Kanes are trying to cover up what they believe to be the murder of their daughter by their son.


I suppose you could consider it part of the Kane attempts to get Keith off their case. Just like the stuff they did to get him fired as sheriff.

Maybe they though with Mrs. Mars missing the Keith would stop looking into the Kanes and start trying to track down his wife. Or possibly, that instead of her running they originally intended to force her to cause the family to move away from Neptune.
If so it backfired on them.

Not a great explanation, so hopefully something better will turn up in season 2.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

I watched the finale again last night, and I'm still disappointed by how it all turned out. The show relied all season on clever twists and good old-fashioned suspense. This episode resorted to horror movie cliches (murderer hiding in the backseat; Veronica moving slowly to try to get her phone, giving Aaron time to wake up) and a badly choreographed fight scene (come on, a metal crutch is not going to even slow someone down). It also bugs me that Lilly is dead just because she slept with a psycho. It's almost a random killing. There was nothing clever about it.

Veronica did so many stupid things that I wondered what was going on. Jumping to the conclusion that Logan was the killer just because his alibi no longer held up? _Nobody's_ alibi held up. They needed more evidence before accusing him of murder. They had nothing other than the fact that he was in town when the murder occurred and that he saw Lilly that day. Must have been dozens of people who could say the same.

When Veronica figured out that Aaron was the killer, why did she leave the Kane house? Why didn't Keith tell her to stay? Why not call the cops and rejoin the party? I know we need a reason for Aaron to be able to attack, but it is out of character for both Veronica and Keith to be so stupid. The writers should have found a better way to get Veronica into Aaron's clutches.

If Duncan is at the door, I might not be able to watch next season. Is everyone forgetting that Duncan is also nuts (I don't think it's all due to the medication)? Besides that, Teddy Dunn is a terrible actor. A Duncan/Veronica romance will drag the show down.

I'm hoping it's Weevil and he's there to tell Veronica that he found Logan on the bridge and stopped him from jumping (at Veronica's request). That's a reason for her to be hoping to see him - it means that Logan is okay. I can't see Logan showing up himself because he's probably passed out somewhere and he should still be mad at Veronica. They don't have to get back together, but Logan is such a good character that the show will lose something without him.


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

First off please no Duncan and Veronica romance next season! I know they tried to show him in some sympathetic light but he's just a jerk. In the year since Lilly's death Veronica has gone from vapid and self centered to an independent young woman. She's grown as a character. Duncan, on the other hand, has not. He still the same shallow character from a year ago. He had suspicions about Lillys death but did nothing but stick his head in the sand and alienate Veronica.

As for the murderer, I liked the ending but still feel a little cheated. I'm of the mind the killer should have been a character introduced in the pilot. While i know they probably left the killer open at the start of the series in case of cast changes , I still think originally they were going to have it be Celeste but I can live with how id ended. At least it ended and wasn't dragged out for many years like any other tv series would have.

The door. I think it's either Wallace or the nice cop dude. Cop dude wasn't even on my list earlier until another post but he's now at the top. Him and Wallace are the only ones who would go to check that Veronica is alright. Logan is #3 he has grown a lot as a character. I hope they continue his development and keep him and veronica together for a while.

Paternity test. Handled very well but they should have just left it open. Regardless of her biological parent Keith Mars is her father and the one she takes after the most.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

scottcohn said:


> And how did Lilly know which tapes to take, besides the one in the recorder when she was in the room? Did Aaron label them?


She too ALL the tapes she saw. They even showed Aaron checking the cubby hole where they'd been and the hole was empty.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

wouldworker said:


> I watched the finale again last night, and I'm still disappointed by how it all turned out. The show relied all season on clever twists and good old-fashioned suspense. This episode resorted to horror movie cliches (murderer hiding in the backseat; Veronica moving slowly to try to get her phone, giving Aaron time to wake up) and a badly choreographed fight scene (come on, a metal crutch is not going to even slow someone down). It also bugs me that Lilly is dead just because she slept with a psycho. It's almost a random killing. There was nothing clever about it.


As I posted earlier, I have some of the same issues with the logistics of the resolution, vis a vis the slasher movie cliches. Also: yes, Lilly's death was pretty random, but I made my peace with that a long time ago. The way the clues/investigation unfolded, every development was pretty much aimed at giving or removing alibis; there was never (or very seldom) any development of motive, other than possibly the jilted or jealous lover. It seemed pretty clear that there wasn't going to be, for example, some sort of conspiracy or even premeditation revealed at the end. So I thought it played out just the way it had been heading all season, even if some sort of monster twist at the end might have been cool.


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## bbstarky (Nov 25, 2004)

Someone made this point on another message board:


> time Veronica woke up 3:07 turn the clock upside down it spells LO E.... anyone find that strange?
> and he knocked first 5 times and then 7.. Logan(5) Echolls(7)


 Also, he came to her house in the middle of the night a lot.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think it could be Logan at the door. Even someone who can be as self-absorbed as Veronica often is isn't going to think that after the events of the past few days, everything between them would be all hunky-dory. And her reaction to whoever it was was worry-free.
> 
> To a much lesser extent, the same would apply to Duncan. I think Wallace is the most likely suspect--and since Veronica called Wallace's mom to have her go sit with Keith, he knows it's all over and that she's probably a but freaked out...


Just watched the finale (yes, a bit late).

It's totally Wallace at the door. I have absolutely no doubt.

For those of you who missed this show, you gotta see it. It really is great.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I just rewatched the season frinale and am ready for the new season to start. 

So who's at the door?


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

I rewatched it last night as well. It was definitely better this time around. I also think it's Wallace at the door.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

NEENAHBOY said:


> I rewatched it last night as well. It was definitely better this time around. I also think it's Wallace at the door.


Regarding who's at the door...


Spoiler



In a TV Guide article, Rob Thomas says that it is *definitely* either Logan or Duncan.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

David Platt said:


> Regarding who's at the door...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Meh. He's throwing us off.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

NEENAHBOY said:


> Meh. He's throwing us off.


Yup, don't believe that for a second.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

First off, great, great show. I'm glad that I picked it up on re-runs, because this may be my new favorite show.

Don't have a whole lot to add to the breakdown - nice job, everyone, back in May - other than the ending. It seemed as if Veronica was definitely looking _up_ at her visitor, which would seem to negate the possibility of it being Wallace, who is approximately her size, whereas Duncan and Logan are much taller.

It seems a minor detail, but Rob Thomas has shown in the past that no detail is too small.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I thinking the person at the door might have been the deputy in the sheriff's office that Veronica dated for a little while. Even though she broke it off with him and went for Logan, he still had a lot of affection for him and he would have found out about everything, working for the sheriff and all.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

DreadPirateRob said:


> It seemed as if Veronica was definitely looking _up_ at her visitor, which would seem to negate the possibility of it being Wallace, who is approximately her size, whereas Duncan and Logan are much taller.
> 
> It seems a minor detail, but Rob Thomas has shown in the past that no detail is too small.


There was probably nobody standing there when they shot it (he would only be in the way, causing shadows and reflections), so if she looked up it was most likely because that would be more natural than looking down or straight ahead for someone as short as she is.

It shoud be Wallace, probably is Logan, and had better not be Duncan.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Just watched this last night....wow, what an awesome show! Can't wait for season 2.

I almost though Veronica was going to shoot Aaron when she had him at gun point...


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

After y'alls talking up this show I finally tivo'd it and had a Veronica Mars marathon yesterday. The kid and I really liked it, but I thought it could've had a better season finale. They shoulda really left us with a cliffhanger, maybe not show us who the real killer was in the video and let us wait it out. Definite SP pass in my house!


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

Havana Brown said:


> After y'alls talking up this show I finally tivo'd it and had a Veronica Mars marathon yesterday. The kid and I really liked it, but I thought it could've had a better season finale. They shoulda really left us with a cliffhanger, maybe not show us who the real killer was in the video and let us wait it out. Definite SP pass in my house!


Considering that the renewal of VM was very much up in the air when the episode was shot (I heard it was the lowest rated program to get renewed), I'm very glad that they did wrap things up.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I too watched the show this summer as "New to me". It's awesome and I'm glad you all recommended it. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming new episodes. Seems like they may have gained a bigger audience this summer.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Ok, I revise my previous "Wallace" guess.

Big Bird.

I'm going with Big Bird. Who wouldn't "hoped it was you" to Big Bird.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> Ok, I revise my previous "Wallace" guess.
> 
> Big Bird.
> 
> I'm going with Big Bird. Who wouldn't "hoped it was you" to Big Bird.


Maybe it's Ed McMahon with that check from Publisher's Clearing House.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

DreadPirateRob said:


> It seemed as if Veronica was definitely looking _up_ at her visitor, which would seem to negate the possibility of it being Wallace, who is approximately her size, whereas Duncan and Logan are much taller.


I don't know...










It looks like she's looking pretty much straight ahead, to me.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

So pissed at the mom!!


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

cmontyburns said:


> That does sound sort of reasonable, but I'd really like there to be some other explanation. It's hard to see how Jake Kane wouldn't know what Clarence was up to, and also hard to see what Mrs. Kane gets out of it, short of revenge maybe... but that's a dangerous game to play, given that both Keith and Veronica are still in town, are both adept at sleuthing, that Keith knows as much as Mrs. Kane does about the situation, and that the Kanes are trying to cover up what they believe to be the murder of their daughter by their son.


(now that I'm caught up with the rest of you)

Remember that in an early episode, Veronica confronted Jake Kane directly and asked him about the photos. Shortly after that, there was a scene in which Jake went into Clarence's office and yelled "What did you do?" This indicates to me that it was Celeste who went to Clarence and asked him to take the photos. Yes, it doesn't prove it 100%, as Clarence is clearly the kind of person to "take initiative" as it were, but it's a strong hint.

So, Celeste wanted Lianne out of the picture. Why? I think it was as simple as that Celeste found out that Lianne and Jake were together, and she just wanted Lianne out of town to stop boinking her husband. I don't think getting Lianne freaked would serve any purpose in the murder cover-up, and if Keith knew about the pictures, that would only serve to increase his focus on the Kanes, not divert it away.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Oh, and at the door? Sydney Bristow. They're really cousins, and Veronica was hoping it was her so that they could swap spy tips.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

Probably kind of weird to bring up this thread after so much time has passed...

But my wife rented the first disc of this show on DVD to check it out, hearing good things about it...and I started watching with her too...and next thing you know, we bought the entire season because we couldn't wait for Blockbuster to send the other discs.

Wow, what a great show, and a great season...I absolutely loved it. We finished watching the last four episodes last night, and we ignored everything else on...24, Surface season finale, my Phoenix Suns playing....just because we couldn't look away.

The final episodes blew us away...we loved the storyline with Logan and VM hooking up...it just seemed right. The finale was awesome...

I'm amazed at how well everything was planned out...i can't think of any clue or story that contradicted another one. The last episode...the dropping of the tray of food, the red light Lilly ran, etc...it was just so cleverly done.

Sadly, we now have to wait for Season 2 to begin repeats I guess...and it sucks, because we really can't wait.

Great characters, great stories, and Kristen Bell is adorable...love the show!

Mike


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Chandler Mike said:


> Probably kind of weird to bring up this thread after so much time has passed...


It's never too late to start watching (or talking about) one of TV's best shows. Glad you're on board! Season two has been, on balance, even better than season one. If you're adept with a computer, you can probably figure out a way to get started on it sooner than waiting for reruns. The season premiere alone will knock you off your seat.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Chandler Mike said:


> Great characters, great stories, and Kristen Bell is adorable...love the show!


No argument here! 

It seems a lot of people have discovered season one of VM on DVD recently and I can only hope that the ratings will soon show some improvement as a result. Season three is still not a guarantee and if the numbers don't improve dramatically after the move to CW, there will definitely be no season four.

I couldn't agree more about your comments. Those last two episodes had me on the edge of my seat in a way that I can't remember any other TV show ever doing before, and I'm including 24.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> It's never too late to start watching (or talking about) one of TV's best shows. Glad you're on board! Season two has been, on balance, even better than season one. If you're adept with a computer, you can probably figure out a way to get started on it sooner than waiting for reruns. The season premiere alone will knock you off your seat.


I am computer saavy, and was able to find a copy of it today from work...it's sitting on my home computer now 

I can't wait, my wife can't wait...we're stoked.

Better than Season 1??? Wow...


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

Magnolia88 said:


> No argument here!
> 
> It seems a lot of people have discovered season one of VM on DVD recently and I can only hope that the ratings will soon show some improvement as a result. Season three is still not a guarantee and if the numbers don't improve dramatically after the move to CW, there will definitely be no season four.
> 
> I couldn't agree more about your comments. Those last two episodes had me on the edge of my seat in a way that I can't remember any other TV show ever doing before, and I'm including 24.


Yeah, it's funny...sure, we watched the final four episodes last night, so it was fresh in our heads...but both my wife and I dreamt about the show, and everytime we woke up, it was like still in our heads.

It's just amazing how it affected us...


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