# The Bolt that should have been



## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

Got a new Bolt 500 last week and I mostly love it.
One thing I noticed however: the unit was getting very warm to the touch with the fan constantly spinning (even when in standby) and with the resulting noise noticeable and distracting while watching dialog movies/TV.

The Bolt looks original and undeniably cute but IMHO aesthetics should never compromise performance.

Hot air is lighter and rises so a high speed/pitch 50mm bottom mounted fan extracting air from the bottom of a case with little intake seems to me like a flawed design.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands:

Replaced the original fan with a top mounted Noctua 92x14mm
Added a 70 ohm resistor on the fan 12V line to decrease speed
Replaced the HDD with a Samsung 500GB SSD

I know, it's not as cute as it used to be, but now my Bolt is stowed away inside the media center, virtually silent and cool to the touch


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

You are very brave.  And smart.


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## Rob772 (Jan 3, 2016)

How do you handle Trimmer with the ssd? Sooner or later it's going to need cleanup.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Rob772 (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry should be "trim" not trimmer

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

I give him 2 months on the SSD drive.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mircolino said:


> Got a new Bolt 500 last week and I mostly love it.
> One thing I noticed however: the unit was getting really hot to the touch with the fan constantly spinning (even when in standby) and with the resulting noise noticeable and distracting while watching dialog movies/TV.
> 
> The Bolt looks original and undeniably cute but IMHO aesthetics should never compromise performance.
> ...


Even with a 4TB drive in each of my Bolts, they don't get very hot using the stock cooling. And certainly not hot to the touch.

Although I have noticed a variance in temperature between the five Bolts I have owned. The current two I own definitely ran cooler with the stock drives than the first three I used.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Might as well throw the Bolt guts into and HTPC case with a apppropriate 3.5 drive


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## beyondthetech (Jan 2, 2015)

I'd be concerned that yours is running hot. Knock on wood, mine never did, even when recording four streams and sending one to a Mini. Of course, you probably voided the warranty instantly when you McGyver'ed a fan on yours, so I hope it works out for you.

Since we all have (or should have) Continual Care with our subscriptions on the Bolt, I would recommend anyone else to exercise that option first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

Rob772 said:


> How do you handle Trim with the ssd? Sooner or later it's going to need cleanup.


With the small fan out of the way, the SSD SATA connector is readily accessible by simply removing the left (corner) cover. I figured, every few months, if needed be, I can connect it to my PC and clean it.
I only lightly use my Tivo, probably not more than a couple of hours a day and in standby the rest of the time. Even writing ~200GB/day the drive should last a couple of years (comes with a 5 years warranty), which is about when I plan on cutting the cord.



markjrenna said:


> I give him 2 months on the SSD drive.


Ah, my daily dose of condescension: how could I live without it!



aaronwt said:


> Even with a 4TB drive in each of my Bolts, they don't get very hot using the stock cooling. And certainly not hot to the touch.
> 
> Although I have noticed a variance in temperature between the five Bolts I have owned. The current two I own definitely ran cooler with the stock drives than the first three I used.


After purchasing the first unit (at a local Fry's store) and noticing the noise/heating problem, on Tivo's customer support suggestion to replace the unit, I purchased 2 more at Best Buy and on Amazon. All 3 units were generating the same heat and noise level. So unless I'm extremely unlucky, I doubt all 3 units were defective.



foghorn2 said:


> Might as well throw the Bolt guts into and HTPC case with a apppropriate 3.5 drive


You'd need to buy a new case, LED/IR lenses would need to be refitted, the 3 WIFI/BT antennas repositioned, the missing backplate custom made, the motherboard custom fitted to the case... Why? This whole modification took me about ~1 hour.



beyondthetech said:


> I'd be concerned that yours is running hot. Knock on wood, mine never did, even when recording four streams and sending one to a Mini. Of course, you probably voided the warranty instantly when you McGyver'ed a fan on yours, so I hope it works out for you.
> 
> Since we all have (or should have) Continual Care with our subscriptions on the Bolt, I would recommend anyone else to exercise that option first.


My main problem was the unit placement. On top of my media center I could clearly hear the fan during a movie/TV dialog, whereas inside the media center cabinet the Tivo would get alarmingly hot, especially on the back-right corner where the tuners/CPU heatsink are.

Admittedly the HDD replacement was not necessary. But the bigger fan on top of the CPU heatsink improved ventilation tenfold and, as a welcome side effect, made the unit virtually silent.

So yes, it's working out very well for me.

I'm still of the idea that the cooling on this model, for an in-cabinet placement is totally under-specced. As for the noise, well... people on this forum are calling it a "JET engine taking off", so I guess it's not just me.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mircolino said:


> Ah, my daily dose of condescension: how could I live without it!
> 
> So yes, it's working out very well for me.


It was expected. You did a good job. If you find any more hot buttons to push, go for it.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Interesting about the 'heating up' thing. My impression, looking at it (my new/first Bolt will arrive at my house on Friday) was that, because of the curved shape, that it would be cooler.

Fact is, with my Premieres and because I'm profoundly aware of the damage that electronics overheating can do, I have always put four water bottle caps under mine (one in each corner like feet) to allow them better circulation. I was kind of jazzed at the notion of this new one thinking that the shape would give it better circulation to keep it cool.

I wonder why the fan is running constantly? Is that the norm?


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## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

sharkster said:


> Interesting about the 'heating up' thing. My impression, looking at it (my new/first Bolt will arrive at my house on Friday) was that, because of the curved shape, that it would be cooler.
> 
> Fact is, with my Premieres and because I'm profoundly aware of the damage that electronics overheating can do, I have always put four water bottle caps under mine (one in each corner like feet) to allow them better circulation. I was kind of jazzed at the notion of this new one thinking that the shape would give it better circulation to keep it cool.


The heating, in my case, was exacerbated by the fact that I kept the Tivo inside the media center cabinet to avoid hearing the constant fan noise.
I recon that placing the unit in a vell ventilated area would mitigate the problem.



> I wonder why the fan is running constantly? Is that the norm?


According to Tivo Technical Support the Bolt never really sleeps, even when in standby mode. Hence the necessity to keep the fan running.


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## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

Oh, I also noticed the Comcast M-Card on the bottom of the Bolt getting really hot.
Could that be the culprit?
Do people that don't have heating problems use the m-card as well?


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Mircolino - Thank You very much for your response and for that information.

Funny thing was that I was vasillating between putting it inside the cabinet (behind a glass door like my Premiere is) or putting it up in the space in the swivel stand i have the TV sitting on. n It's one of those swivel stand that has an open compartment below the TV. 

At least that's one thing I don't have to think about anymore. I'll put it up there. Just have to dust it more. But at least it w/b easier to get to the back of it when I need to. That's one PITA about the stuff that's down inside the cabinet.

I'm actually making lists of what order in which to do everything to switch that Premiere out for the new Bolt. I have almost 200 Season Passes on that one to transfer, plus some manual recordings in the 'To Do' that I guess I'll have to just manually set up again unless there is a way to just swoosh all that stuff over to the new one. Same goes for 'My Shows'.

I just hope I don't have to move the SPs over, one by one. That will suck! There should be an easy transfer for everything, that I have yet to find.


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## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

sharkster said:


> There should be an easy transfer for everything, that I have yet to find.


Before installing the SSD in my Bolt I used the Miray HDClone application on my PC to mirror the content of the HDD. It worked like a charm and all the settings, one passes, recordings etc. were correctly transferred.

The process was facilitated by the fact that both HDD and SSD were of exactly the same size and that I was not migrating from a previous Tivo model.

Additionally you'd have to open both units and remove the drives to mirror them on a computer.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sharkster said:


> I just hope I don't have to move the SPs over, one by one. That will suck! There should be an easy transfer for everything, that I have yet to find.


TiVo online. OnePass Manager. So I've heard.

http://online.tivo.com


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mircolino said:


> Oh, I also noticed the Comcast M-Card on the bottom of the Bolt getting really hot.
> Could that be the culprit?
> Do people that don't have heating problems use the m-card as well?


Cable cards have gotten very warm in every device I've ever used with them. Going back to 2006.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mircolino said:


> Before installing the SSD in my Bolt I used the Miray HDClone application on my PC to mirror the content of the HDD. It worked like a charm and all the settings, season passes, recordings etc. were correctly transferred.
> 
> The process was facilitated by the fact that both HDD and SSD were of exactly the same size and that I was not migrating from a previous Tivo model.
> 
> Additionally you'd have to open both units and remove the drives to mirror them on a computer.


Have you filled up the drive yet? The first thing I do when I replace any TiVo drive is spend the next week or so filling it up to make sure I have no problems.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

sharkster said:


> Mircolino - Thank You very much for your response and for that information.
> 
> Funny thing was that I was vasillating between putting it inside the cabinet (behind a glass door like my Premiere is) or putting it up in the space in the swivel stand i have the TV sitting on. n It's one of those swivel stand that has an open compartment below the TV.
> 
> ...


KMTTG works great for backing up and restoring SeasonOne Passes


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## kendalltr (Apr 22, 2016)

Can anyone confirm the exact fan size, and whether or not it is user replaceable by someone with ordinary tools and some experience building PCs?


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## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

kendalltr said:


> Can anyone confirm the exact fan size, and whether or not it is user replaceable by someone with ordinary tools and some experience building PCs?


The fan in the Tivo Bolt is a pretty standard (see picture attached) 50x14mm 12V 0.07A
To open the Bolt and replace the fan is relatively easy: you just need a T9 Torx screwdriver and a spudger (I used a guitar pick). There are plenty of plastic tabs so a bit of common sense and patience is also recommended 

This video on youtube is pretty self-explanatory.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

The bolt fan is really a 50mm fan? Too bad Noctua doesn't make 50mm fans, they are the quietest fans I've ever had.


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## mircolino (Apr 20, 2016)

tomhorsley said:


> The bolt fan is really a 50mm fan? Too bad Noctua doesn't make 50mm fans, they are the quietest fans I've ever had.


Agree 100%, they are simply the best.
That's why I decided to frankenstein my Bolt and put one of them on top.


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## CaptainTiVO (Nov 3, 2001)

markjrenna said:


> I give him 2 months on the SSD drive.


Well, we all know about the limited number of writes to SSD drives, current FLASH can only sustain around 10,000 cycles, so we should be concerned, especially in applications like DVR. However, there are LOT of pages in a 1 TB SSD and the controllers are designed to "wear level" by spreading the writes over a large number of pages. Good numbers on endurance are hard to come by, but here is one test:
http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead

Certainly not statistically valid, but lets take the lower end of 600 TB of writes before failure as a minimum.
Some math: assume a single video stream is 20 Mbs (megabits/s). This is actually on the high side. Assume 4 streams (tuners) constantly recording (the 30 minute buffer, remember?). So:
(20x10^6)/8 = 2.5x10^6 MBs (megabytes/s) x 3600 s/hour x 24 hours/day x 4 streams= 864x10^9 or 864 GB/day

so (600 TB) / 864 GB /day = (600x10^12)/864x10^9 = 694 days
699 days)/365.25 days/year = 1.9 YEARS.
And, the Samsung 840 Pro lasted up until 2.4 PB (PB = 1000 TB), that drive would have lasted about 7.6 years!

So, not totally crazy. That said, I have a Tivo HD XL that has been going since 2009, so almost 7 years!


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## kendalltr (Apr 22, 2016)

To update, I purchased and installed the Gelid Solutions Silent5 50mm fan in the Tivo Bolt. It made no difference whatsoever in the fan noise, but at least it wasn't difficult and it's not any worse.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

I certainly hope I'm wrong. But AV Drives were made for a reason/application. And SSD Drives were made for a different reason/application.

Good luck. I'm rooting for the SSD as I would try one myself.



CaptainTiVO said:


> Well, we all know about the limited number of writes to SSD drives, current FLASH can only sustain around 10,000 cycles, so we should be concerned, especially in applications like DVR. However, there are LOT of pages in a 1 TB SSD and the controllers are designed to "wear level" by spreading the writes over a large number of pages. Good numbers on endurance are hard to come by, but here is one test:
> http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
> 
> Certainly not statistically valid, but lets take the lower end of 600 TB of writes before failure as a minimum.
> ...


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## CaptainTiVO (Nov 3, 2001)

markjrenna said:


> I certainly hope I'm wrong. But AV Drives were made for a reason/application. And SSD Drives were made for a different reason/application.
> 
> Good luck. I'm rooting for the SSD as I would try one myself.


Oh, don't get me wrong. I think using an SSD in a DVR application is exactly the WRONG thing to do. For DVR, you want long life, large capacity, low power and cost and access time is irrelevant (given the low bit rates of compressed video streams). SSD are fast but low capacity and expensive.

Source: I used to design these things for a living


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## Richard Barg (Feb 5, 2017)

mircolino said:


> Agree 100%, they are simply the best.
> That's why I decided to frankenstein my Bolt and put one of them on top.


Would this fan work in the setup you did - ie. puttting the fan outside the case: 
Noctua AAO Frame Design SSO2 Bearing Quiet Fan(NF-A9 PWM) Amazon.com: Noctua AAO Frame Design SSO2 Bearing Quiet Fan(NF-A9 PWM): Computers & Accessories


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## Richard Barg (Feb 5, 2017)

mircolino said:


> Got a new Bolt 500 last week and I mostly love it.
> One thing I noticed however: the unit was getting very warm to the touch with the fan constantly spinning (even when in standby) and with the resulting noise noticeable and distracting while watching dialog movies/TV.
> 
> The Bolt looks original and undeniably cute but IMHO aesthetics should never compromise performance.
> ...


What is the fan sitting on? Did you cut a hole in the plastic? It's not clear how you are mounting the fan. Bravo for taking matters into your own hands. Also what model is the fan?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The fan is always spinning, even in standby. That is normal.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

can someone define 'hot' if components are working within their thermal envelope there is no issue with 'hot' only when those components are outside their thermal envelope is there an issue.... i might take my FLIR camera to my tivo and get some reference temps if folks want to compare objectively?


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## kkoh (Mar 31, 2017)

alexb said:


> can someone define 'hot' if components are working within their thermal envelope there is no issue with 'hot' only when those components are outside their thermal envelope is there an issue.... i might take my FLIR camera to my tivo and get some reference temps if folks want to compare objectively?


My google image search for "hot" didn't get any results that seem to be related to your question.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

alexb said:


> can someone define 'hot' if components are working within their thermal envelope there is no issue with 'hot' only when those components are outside their thermal envelope is there an issue.... i might take my FLIR camera to my tivo and get some reference temps if folks want to compare objectively?


Temperature ratings are usually supplied for a complete unit, like a TV. Also given ratings are individual components, like resistors. In the olden days, I remember most devices were operational from 0C to 100C. One could easily find parts too hot to touch that were operating normally. Then there are heat sinks. Some devices, like a CPU, may have a temperature sensor that can change the speed of the device, as do some fans. Having an on-board temperature sensor, like the Roamio & Bolt, is nice but subject to the ambient temperature. In my 72F room my basic Roamio with a 1TB drive is usually 37C. Another basic Roamio in a 70F room with a 3TB drive is usually 43C. The Mini is much warmer since it doesn't have a fan. It can be 50C or higher. I have one Mini with a 120mm fan on top and it shows 33C. Obviously the location of the sensor is important, and I have no idea where the sensors are located. Have fun.

BTW, I'm not really concerned with the running temperature of a unit. I don't like large changes in temperature however.


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