# Okay, it is officially the 2nd half now. Where is my S3?



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

I want. Now.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> I want. Now.


Me too


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Me 3. :up:


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

me 4.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I want mine last year.


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

count me in! I don't just want it...I need it!


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I'll give up air and nutrient sustenance for one.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Ditto.

But I don't expect to see it before 8/1.


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

Um, yeah. And I'd love to have a DirecTivo version of the Series 3. Keep waiting, peeps. It'll be out soon enough. I even saw one at the Con this week. Its shiny and pretty!


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

A DirecTiVo version? Did they mention anything about Series 3/DirecTV?


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

tfederov said:


> A DirecTiVo version? Did they mention anything about Series 3/DirecTV?


No, there's no such thing. I was just wishing for one.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Second half doesn't officially arrive until noon tomorrow (July 2)...do the math.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Second half doesn't officially arrive until noon tomorrow (July 2)...do the math.


New math or old math? 

As mentioned in another thread, it all depends on how you look at it. If you divide the year in quarters, where a quarter is three months, then the 3rd and 4th quarters are in the 2nd half. Since the 3rd quarter starts July 1st, July 1st is obviously in the second half of the year.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

drew2k said:


> New math or old math?
> 
> As mentioned in another thread, it all depends on how you look at it. If you divide the year in quarters, where a quarter is three months, then the 3rd and 4th quarters are in the 2nd half. Since the 3rd quarter starts July 1st, July 1st is obviously in the second half of the year.


And, as I mentioned in the other thread, 365 divided by two takes you to noon July 2.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> And, as I mentioned in the other thread, 365 divided by two takes you to noon July 2.


   

Yup, and as I mentioned in the other thread - it doesn't matter!

To define the 2nd half of a year, one must first define "year". Some people will say 365 days, but they're wrong 1 in 4 "years". Some people will say 12 months. Guess what? They're always right.

If I define a year as 12 months, then July 1st is in the 2nd half of the year. Done!

But please, have fun celebrating your New Second-Half-of-the-Year-Eve tonight, and remember, be responsible. Don't drink and drive as you ring in that second half.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

drew2k said:


> To define the 2nd half of a year, one must first define "year". Some people will say 365 days, but they're wrong 1 in 4 "years"...


Ah, but we're talking about THIS year...and, correct...it doesn't really matter because we're likely not to see the S3 for many months.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Whoa! Was OTA and QAM HD a complete surprise to the engineers at TiVo? Are they still in shock after so many years?

Whenever I read about the interminable delays in delivering the standalone S3, I'm reminded of this great Far Side cartoon. Perhaps it's a window into the TiVo R&D department:

http://theory.rockefeller.edu/

_Knowing how it could change the life of canines everywhere, the dog scientists struggled diligently to understand the Doorknob Principle_


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Mathematcal or buisiness "half", the release wasn't (to my knowlege) scheduled to happen _0n_, but _in_ the second half, so we (royal we, as an S3 is next useless to me right now) have a whole 6 months to go.


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

Since we're getting into symantics, doesn't Tivo's quarter not align with normal quarters and is actually a month later to start (1st quarter on Feb 1st instead of Jan 1st)? In that case, if Tivo was thinking in terms of their quarters, the 2nd half won't begin until Aug 1st.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Whoa! Was OTA and QAM HD a complete surprise to the engineers at TiVo? Are they still in shock after so many years?
> 
> Whenever I read about the interminable delays in delivering the standalone S3


What delays? TiVo is on schedule. They deliberately didn't schedule the release until this fall.

1. They needed CableCARD to mature. And history shows that was a good choice - the rollout of CC was anything but smooth.

2. Like it or not, HD is a niche market. It is picking up, but is just starting to really go past the earliest adopters in numbers. There was no point in investing in the product development for the market that was available. You need reasonable ROI to produce the product.

Then they have to develop the product, which has a lot of new features - some are major OS changes, like supporting external drives - and then get CableLabs certification. From what I understand, they couldn't even start a beta until the box was CL certified to use with CableCARD in the field. CL certification takes a while, and they got it earlier this year.

There are many gates in the S3 development that simply take time and need to be performed serially.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Why do people say I want a DIRECTV version of the S3 ?


The DIRECTV/HDTV/TiVo already came out years ago.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

megazone said:


> What delays? TiVo is on schedule. They deliberately didn't schedule the release until this fall.


The standalone HD TiVo has probably been in development longer than Duke Nukem Forever. (Just kidding, I think DNF started in 1997, around the time Teleworld was incorporated. So it's close!).

I think we have a difference in philosophy. I'm a big believer in getting products out the door, then incrementally refining them. For example, *screw* cablecard if it has problems. Why couldn't TiVo have released a box without cablecard? I would have bought it.

As for ROI, I think TiVo has flushed countless millions down the drain on useless features and worthless ad campaigns. But that's a debate for another thread.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

second thread on the second half
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=305912

perhaps TiVo should take names from this thread


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> second thread on the second half
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=305912
> 
> perhaps TiVo should take names from this thread


 And do what with them? Offer the posters in that thread early or discounted S3 units?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

drew2k said:


> And do what with them? Offer the posters in that thread early or discounted S3 units?


well my name is in both threads so maybe TiVo should just send me an S3 as I seem to have too much time on my hands


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well my name is in both threads so maybe TiVo should just send me an S3 as I seem to have too much time on my hands


My name's in both, too....and I like your logic!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

You're Series 3 was in Las Vegas. You should have been there to claim it.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> You're Series 3 was in Las Vegas. You should have been there to claim it.


Interesting. Did they have any security there? I'm pretty sure I could take Pony, but if the bullets start flying, one might hit the S3 and wreck my plan.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> And, as I mentioned in the other thread, 365 divided by two takes you to noon July 2.


Technically there are 365 and 1/4 days per year. That's why we have leap year every 4 years, otherwise we would slowly drift to the point where summer was in December. Because of that the second half technically started at 6:00pm yesterday, not noon. 

That being said TiVo said that it would be released in the second half of 2006, they didn't say whether it was the beginning middle or end of the second half. And I'm guessing that if they wanted to be that specific they would have simply announced an actual date rather then a 6 month span of time.

Dan


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> Interesting. Did they have any security there? I'm pretty sure I could take Pony, but if the bullets start flying, one might hit the S3 and wreck my plan.


It's a casino. There is security and cameras everywhere!!

Actually, we had our party in a private ballroom. Dunno if there were security cameras present or not. There certainly were no secuirty guards there.

I had actually seen a Series 3 unit before in person back in January. But it wasn't hooked to a display. This one was hooked to a projector, but it wasn't HiDef, so you really couldn't tell it was much different from any other TiVo. (I never did see any of the setup/configuration screens)


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> There certainly were no secuirty guards there.


What do you mean, no security guards


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Technically there are 365 and 1/4 days per year...


Technically, yes, but in reality, no. Three years of 365 days, and one year of 366 days....but then, I'm not a picker of nits... ...I think I need professional help...


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Technically, yes, but in reality, no. Three years of 365 days, and one year of 366 days....but then, I'm not a picker of nits... ...I think I need professional help...


I can't believe we are still arguing about this stupid half-year thing. Give it a rest already. Nobody $%# cares!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ah30k said:


> I can't believe we are still arguing about this stupid half-year thing. Give it a rest already. Nobody $%# cares!


Well, we would if TiVo hadn't made that statement....


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ah30k said:


> I can't believe we are still arguing about this stupid half-year thing. Give it a rest already. Nobody $%# cares!


It was all in good fun. Nobody actually expected TiVo to say "OK it's officially the 2nd half of 2006... release the Series 3". Like I said in my previous post, if they were going to nail it down that tight they would have given us a release date already.

Dan


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> It was all in good fun. Nobody actually expected TiVo to say "OK it's officially the 2nd half of 2006... release the Series 3". Like I said in my previous post, if they were going to nail it down that tight they would have given us a release date already.
> 
> Dan


Agreed....but I still think I need professional help...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I think we have a difference in philosophy. I'm a big believer in getting products out the door, then incrementally refining them. For example, *screw* cablecard if it has problems. Why couldn't TiVo have released a box without cablecard? I would have bought it.


But a lot of other people would like the ability to receive digital channels without a box.. (and the S3 won't even control a box) I don't, and apparently you don't, but a lot of people do.

So if they released one now without cablecard capability, some would be mad that newer hardware came out relatively soon WITH that capability, with no upgrade options.

Heck, I don't even have a HDTV, and I'm interested in the S3's capabilities.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> It was all in good fun. Nobody actually expected TiVo to say "OK it's officially the 2nd half of 2006... release the Series 3".


Speak for yourself. I'm already disappointed and I'm thinking of starting a new thread called "Countdown to Delay: The S3 Vaporware Saga," in which I post every day the number of days until the S3 is officially late. It's like 178 or 179 right now -- I'm sure one of you math geniuses will tell me.



> Like I said in my previous post, if they were going to nail it down that tight they would have given us a release date already.


Maybe they want to surprise us. People are constantly complaining about TiVo announcing things that don't exist yet -- maybe Mr. Rogers is going to morph into Steve Jobs and start awing us with his awesome product launch showmanship.


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## Larry in TN (Jun 21, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> I'm thinking of starting a new thread called "Countdown to Delay: The S3 Vaporware Saga," in which I post every day the number of days until the S3 is officially late.


...and what a joy that will be to read everyday.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

To quote Pony When asked:
"Do we have a release date set?, Yes we do"
"Am I going to tell you that release date, No I am not"
"Do I know how much it will cost, Yes I do"
"Will I tell you that either, No I won't."


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Larry in TN said:


> ...and what a joy that will be to read everyday.


Maybe I'll punch it up a bit with some of my characteristic observational humor.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Gunnyman said:


> To quote Pony When asked:
> "Do we have a release date set?, Yes we do"
> "Am I going to tell you that release date, No I am not"
> "Do I know how much it will cost, Yes I do"
> "Will I tell you that either, No I won't."


Sounds like classic Pony. I assume this was at the Con?

Dan


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Sounds like classic Pony. I assume this was at the Con?
> 
> Dan


yup.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> Speak for yourself. I'm already disappointed


The way I see it... the later the release, the more time I have to save.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I think we have a difference in philosophy. I'm a big believer in getting products out the door, then incrementally refining them. For example, *screw* cablecard if it has problems. Why couldn't TiVo have released a box without cablecard? I would have bought it.


umm - there is the Dual Tuner series 2 out now that does not use cable card and you can hook a set top box to.

of course that will not do HD *- which is the real core of the series 3 and why people will pay more for it. And of course there is NO way commercially feasible to record HD without access to the digital byte stream,* and the only way a 3rd party gets to that is with a cable card.
*(edit - except for OTA HD - but that is too small a subset to think to sell many non-CC S3)

so go buy a DT because that is as good as it gets without a cable card or the boon dongle of trying to run two IR blasters or serial cables to two set top boxes just to record something on HBO and Cinemax at the same time without having to coordinate two separate TiVo DVRs.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Just remember that S3 doesn't need CableCARD. It can work with an OTA antenna.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Raj said:


> Just remember that S3 doesn't need CableCARD. It can work with an OTA antenna.


That's all I care about, OTA HD.

phox


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> To quote Pony When asked:
> "Do we have a release date set?, Yes we do"
> "Am I going to tell you that release date, No I am not"
> "Do I know how much it will cost, Yes I do"
> "Will I tell you that either, No I won't."


I feel bad for Pony.

What's he going to have to tease us with after the Series 3 is announced/released?


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> That's all I care about, OTA HD.
> 
> phox


I've been seriously leaning this way too. All the HD I can record I get OTA now, so if the analog stuff from cable looks good enough, I could forgo the cable card and save myself about $16 a month by not having to go with the TWC digital cable tier (they'll bundle at least one CC with that service since the STB I would get "costs" $7.83 to rent).

The other thing I may try is getting "standard" service from TWC and renting a pair of CCs (for a total of $4 extra dollars per month). Nobody is sure, but that might get my the digital simulcast channels in the standard tier. That would make my setup basically the same cost as what I pay DirecTV, even including the $15 a month I'm assuming I'll have to pay TiVo for the S3 guide data.

Basically, I'm looking at three price comparisions (none include taxes, which I pay on satellitte and cable in my state):

DirecTV (with HD10-250, no HD tier)
programming $50/month
DVR fee $5/month
TOTAL $55/month

TWC with Digital Cable
digipic 1000 $62/month (includes one cablecard)
2nd cablecard $2/month
TiVo service fee (est) $15/month
TOTAL $79/month

TWC with standard cable
standard service $49/month
2 cablecards $4/month
TiVo service fee (est) $15/month
TOTAL $68/month

And just for reference, if I were to get the TWC DVR, I'd pay $69/month. So worst case I have TiVo for only $120/year more. Well worth it. Even the $288/year more over what I pay DirecTV will be worth it for a TiVo with current software.

OK, that was the long way of saying, "is the S3 here yet?"


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> I feel bad for Pony.
> 
> What's he going to have to tease us with after the Series 3 is announced/released?


The Series 3a of course










I actually still have one of these!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

phox_mulder said:


> That's all I care about, OTA HD.
> 
> phox


Me too, phox.


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## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Me too. phox.


Same here. The stuff we record on non-OTA cable channels is not generally in HD anyway. We do record a lot of network shows (24, Boston Legal, CSI etc) that are broadcast OTA in HD. An S3 will make a big difference for us in that regard. I'm not in the least interested in TW Digital Cable. I am a video professional and image quality is important for me. The OTA HD signal is the best quality available to consumers at this point in time. Digital Cable HD is not as good.

In fact a nice young guy called from TW the other night trying to sell me a package with Digital Cable, DVR, Roadrunner etc. I told him it made no sense for me to go with that package since I have three Tivos, two with lifetime service. Why would I toss that investment to get their cruddy DVR with it's low quality over-compressed video?

He didn't have an answer.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

ROFL @ shady's Series 3a!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Welshdog said:


> Digital Cable HD is not as good.


Here the cable company simply passes the signal through for HD locals, so there is no difference between OTA and cable. Also, at my house, I can only pick up 3 of the 6 HD local channels. Cable carries them all, plus HD versions of all of my premium channels like HBO, SHO and MAX.

So I'll definitely be getting CableCARDs for my S3 TiVos.

Dan


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

phox_mulder said:


> That's all I care about, OTA HD.
> 
> phox


Me too. All three S2s are currently recording ATSC via ex-Voom recievers. I look forward to being able to 'really' record HD.

I wonder how bad MRV will be for HD content between a pair of S3s.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Until Comcast forces me into a digital package, I'm mainly interested in OTA and QAM as well. Too bad there's probably no way to get a DTV HD TiVo to perform those functions (without satellite service) now.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> of course that will not do HD *- which is the real core of the series 3 and why people will pay more for it. And of course there is NO way commercially feasible to record HD without access to the digital byte stream,* and the only way a 3rd party gets to that is with a cable card.
> *(edit - except for OTA HD - but that is too small a subset to think to sell many non-CC S3)


Your "edit" is almost, but not quite, why I would buy a non-CC S3. I don't give a damn about OTA because of multipath. You forgot QAM. Very important for me, since I can't get reliable OTA.

What I have right now is the $10 basic cable from Comcast. I get HD locals without any "HD lite" or "downrezzing" nonsense. I even have digital SD locals. Comcast advertises 100% digital in my area and it's true, because even analog SD locals are simulcast in digital. But, because Comcast transmits in QAM256, I can't buy a product from TiVo that allows me to record that totally unencrypted 100% digital byte stream that you mention.

I have 4 active SD DirecTiVo receivers. I have SD coming out of my a**. But, since I can't receive reliable HD OTA, DirecTV has no HD solution for me. Even after DirecTV adds HD LIL that won't be acceptable to be since they don't have an HD DVR.

Cablecard would be icing on the cake. If the S3 TiVo had it, I could drop HBO from DirecTV and add it from Comcast. HD locals plus HD HBO cover about 90% of why I want HD. And, because Comcast must supply HBO ala-carte, I wouldn't need to pay them for any of their very expensive digital tiers. Those tiers have only a few HD channels anyway, like ESPN, and I could live without those. I get ESPN in SD from DirecTV already.

I am frustrated. And I believe that a lot of people are in a similar situation. That's why so many of them are willing to put up with the inferior Comcast DVR. Why is TiVo so inept that it can't deliver a product to this (IMO) very large market.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Here the cable company simply passes the signal through for HD locals, so there is no difference between OTA and cable.


You are lucky. Each 6 MHz of cable can carry 19 Mbits of information when encoded 8VSB, which is the modulation scheme used OTA. It can carry 38 Mbits of information when encoded QAM256. That's one big reason why most cable companies use QAM. It gives them twice the spectrum.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'll be getting digital cable with a HD package when I get the Series 3.

My situation is like Phantom's. I live in an apartment, so I can't assume that I can setup an antenna that will work for all the OTA channels in Dallas. I may be able to get some, but I don't think I'll be able to get all with an indoor antenna (like a Silver Sensor). Also, I WOULD like to get some of the cable TV channels in HD (like ESPN and Discovery, for example), so I'll get CableCards from the calbe TV company and stick them into the TiVo (or have one of their techs do it if they insist on rolling a truck)


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I'll be getting digital cable with a HD package when I get the Series 3.
> 
> My situation is like Phantom's. I live in an apartment, so I can't assume that I can setup an antenna that will work for all the OTA channels in Dallas. I may be able to get some, but I don't think I'll be able to get all with an indoor antenna (like a Silver Sensor). Also, I WOULD like to get some of the cable TV channels in HD (like ESPN and Discovery, for example), so I'll get CableCards from the calbe TV company and stick them into the TiVo (or have one of their techs do it if they insist on rolling a truck)


If all you want are the channels you would normally get OTA, you shouldn't need a cablecard at all. My understanding is that the cable cos are required to provide the HD channels in unencrypted QAM, so you don't need the cablecard as there is no encryption on the channels. Oh, and you shouldn't need to have anything other than basic cable to get the QAM channels.


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

Cox here in Phoenix filters the digital channels so while they may be in the clear, you can't see them until you subscribe to digital and they'll remove the filter.

Or you might get lucky and the tech didn't filter your line.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> You are lucky. Each 6 MHz of cable can carry 19 Mbits of information when encoded 8VSB, which is the modulation scheme used OTA. It can carry 38 Mbits of information when encoded QAM256. That's one big reason why most cable companies use QAM. It gives them twice the spectrum.


They still convert the channels to QAM, they just don't down sample the bitrate any. Some cable companies actually downsample the HD channels so they actually look worse then the original ATSC versions.

Dan


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Shawn95GT said:


> Cox here in Phoenix filters the digital channels so while they may be in the clear, you can't see them until you subscribe to digital and they'll remove the filter.
> 
> Or you might get lucky and the tech didn't filter your line.


That's actually illegal. If they carry the ATSC channels at all then they are required to leave them in the clear for the lowest level of service.

Dan


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

pkscout said:


> If all you want are the channels you would normally get OTA, you shouldn't need a cablecard at all. My understanding is that the cable cos are required to provide the HD channels in unencrypted QAM, so you don't need the cablecard as there is no encryption on the channels. Oh, and you shouldn't need to have anything other than basic cable to get the QAM channels.


But I will need the cable card, as I'll need it to get the Digital cable stations (standard def) that I would be getting. There is nothing digital or QAM or anything coming across my cable right now. I have expanded basic (analog) cable. A Series 2 DT would be Ideal for me if I didn't want to move to HDTV. But I want to make the leap (too bad the S2 DT didn't come out sooner)


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Is there any chance of you guys bringing this thread back to somewhere in the remote vicinity of the original topic? The topic was TiVo's failure to deliver the Series 3 by the deadline I had set for them. All of your talk is moot, because we don't have the damn boxes. And TiVo is now, what?, like 176 days from admitting a delay.

When will the madness end?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

LOL 

Dan


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> When will the madness end?


I guess that is up to you


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

I'm going to be coming to this forum every day now, I guess, until that day in which I see the happy news in which a release date for the series 3 is given.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> They still convert the channels to QAM, they just don't down sample the bitrate any.


Yeah, you're probably right. I went back and read the original post and I think it was wishful thinking on my part that his cable system carried his locals in 8VSB. But I know from previous googling that there is at least one cable system out there that uses 8VSB. I think it is a rural cooperative or something like that, which means it is far less rapacious than Comcast and others of that ilk.

Why would 8VSB be interesting over cable? Flexibility. For example, an HD DirecTiVo box would get the premiums like ESPN HD from the dish, while I could get the HD locals over cable (bad multipath for OTA).


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> All of your talk is moot, because we don't have the damn boxes. And TiVo is now, what?, like 176 days from admitting a delay.
> 
> When will the madness end?


For me, the madness won't even end when the mythical S3 is finally released. I certainly don't intend to be a pioneer. I will wait at least a few months to see if there are any horrible bugs. I've personally suffered with S1 modem problems, many others have suffered thru HDMI connector problems. Why is it if you want working HDMI you must spend an extra $149 from weaknees for a replacement HDMI card?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> When will the madness end?


When the Comcast Moto TiVo box arrives?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> ....When will the madness end?





ZeoTiVo said:


> I guess that is up to you


Yeah, he started it all. It's all his fault....Mom....make him behave


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## jeffrypennock (May 18, 2006)

To refocus the conversation for a moment...where's my S3?

A previous poster said not before 8/1. As this is 7/7, that seems like a safe bet because it seems unlikely that the S3 would go from totally under wraps (not on TiVo website, not in the news, etc. ...the only reason we know it exists are those CES pics) to being on store shelves in three weeks. 

So what DO we know? Do we know if they're currently being manufactured? TiVo is a publicly traded stock; TiVo boxes are made from parts and those parts are made by manufacturers, and some of those companies are also publically traded. Publically traded companies update investors via publically available reports about their businesss activities...this is how you hear about electronics, pharmaceuticals, etc. before they make it to market. Has anyone heard about TiVo Series 3 boxes being mass produced or parts for TiVos being shipped by parts manufacturers? 

If no such reports exist, then we're probably talking about barely making it to market in time for Christmas sales...forget about anything this fall. 

Are there any other indications that this company is preparing to offer a new product besides that one line we got in the news letter a few weeks ago? We saw the new features, the end of the lifetime subscriptions, the DT units, etc. coming a million miles away. Are we seeing any of the signs that have been previously seen in previous TiVo roll-outs to give us an indication where we are in the time line?

I don't mean to seem negative, believe me. I really an S3 too. That's why I'm asking what do we know, what can reasonably expect...rather than what are some of us wishing for.


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## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

jeffrypennock said:


> Do we know if they're currently being manufactured? TiVo is a publicly traded stock; TiVo boxes are made from parts and those parts are made by manufacturers, and some of those companies are also publically traded. Publically traded companies update investors via publically available reports about their businesss activities...this is how you hear about electronics, pharmaceuticals, etc. before they make it to market. Has anyone heard about TiVo Series 3 boxes being mass produced or parts for TiVos being shipped by parts manufacturers?


This is how people figure out what Apple is up to. Anybody know how to sleuth this out with Tivo?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Okay, what if the S3 comes out so late that those lifetime membership cards people paid $500 for expire before they can get an S3?


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

timckelley said:


> Okay, what if the S3 comes out so late that those lifetime membership cards people paid $500 for expire before they can get an S3?


Maybe that is what TiVo are waiting for


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

jeffrypennock said:


> Has anyone heard about TiVo Series 3 boxes being mass produced or parts for TiVos being shipped by parts manufacturers? If no such reports exist, then we're probably talking about barely making it to market in time for Christmas sales...forget about anything this fall.


I don't recall seeing such reports before the DT boxes were leaked by a few online vendors, so I'm not sure this logic applies 100% of the time. However, if they can't get them out by early in the Fall TV season I could understand the business case to hold them back (even if they're ready) until the holiday season.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jeffrypennock said:


> We saw the new features, the end of the lifetime subscriptions, the DT units, etc. coming a million miles away. Are we seeing any of the signs that have been previously seen in previous TiVo roll-outs to give us an indication where we are in the time line?


Actually if it wern't for a few online retailers leaking info about the S2DT, no one would have saw it coming. Personally I think the S3 is slated for a Late August or early September release, but I guess we'll see if I'm right or not soon enough.

Dan


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

The S3 will obviously be out as soon as Mac OS support is 

Seriously, which will come first? Mythical Mac OS support, or the mythical S3? And will the S3 have full Tivo2Go support (including for HD channels)?

Probably they'll release the S3 and Mac support on the same day...only the Mac support won't work for HD broadcasts. Yeah, that would be fitting 

I'm more and more thinking the S2 DT makes more sense for me. The S3 may cost a fortune, to the point where it's just cheaper to go with basica cable + an S2. Plus I still don't know if I can even recieve digital channels here decently.

Oh well, I gues by August I'm going to have to make a choice, order cable and an S2...


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

jeffrypennock said:


> Has anyone heard about TiVo Series 3 boxes being mass produced or parts for TiVos being shipped by parts manufacturers?


They seem to be giving hints that the S3 will be a niche product, any production runs they order from someplace like Solectron would probably be lost in the noise.


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## jeffrypennock (May 18, 2006)

vman41 said:


> They seem to be giving hints that the S3 will be a niche product, any production runs they order from someplace like Solectron would probably be lost in the noise.


Aha!! I think you're probably particularly correct given the hand-wringing (possibly justified, I don't know) going on in the "HDTV & Cable: Switched Digital, CableCARD, and Series3" thread; the S3 may end up being a very small niche product not worth telling investors about or detectable in manufacturer orders.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

jeffrypennock said:


> So what DO we know? Do we know if they're currently being manufactured? TiVo is a publicly traded stock; TiVo boxes are made from parts and those parts are made by manufacturers, and some of those companies are also publically traded. Publically traded companies update investors via publically available reports about their businesss activities...this is how you hear about electronics, pharmaceuticals, etc. before they make it to market. Has anyone heard about TiVo Series 3 boxes being mass produced or parts for TiVos being shipped by parts manufacturers?


TiVo is pretty tight-lipped about this kind of thing. For example, in their 10-Q and 10-K filings they mention that they have a contract manufacturer for the S2 boxes, but they don't say who it is. And it is nearly impossible to figure out how much it costs to make the things. As far as other suppliers go, TiVo is very much in the noise level. The company sold around 500K boxes last year. You wouldn't see that kind of volume in the filings of a disk drive or processor manufacturer, let alone the smaller numbers that initial runs of the S3 will produce.

As others have pointed out, there was no sign of the S2DT prior to the early posting by some retailers, even though a lot of people were looking. There was no leak from inside TiVo, no leak from the manufacturer, no leak from field testing, no leak from industry insiders (like cable partners) who had been told about TiVo's plans. Nothing.

This time they've told us this product is coming, but still they won't say when. I'm not sure what they hope to gain by telling us everything about it except when we can get it. I'm sure they don't want to cannibalize current sales, but that's already happening -- lots of people who might have gone with the DT unit (like me), are now waiting for the S3.

Maybe they don't want to miss any more deadlines, like the July 1st fiasco that started this thread.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

ChuckyBox said:


> Maybe they don't want to miss any more deadlines, like the July 1st fiasco that started this thread.


In fairness, I don't think TiVo has *EVER* said July 1. They've been pretty consistent about saying "second half of the year." Please, point me to a post or press release that says July 1 and I will eat this post. Otherwise, anything between July 1 and December 31 (inclusive) is second half of the year to me.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm pretty sure he was joking!

Dan


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I'm pretty sure he was joking!


He's only half joking.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> He's only half joking.


Which half is joking? Because I will kick its ass.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I know you're dissapointed man - I recall you may also have been bummed after the Valentine's Day mixer non-announcement.

I didn't have any expectations for July 1, so I'm not really dissapointed. Besides, if the price/market hints they've dropped are correct the S3 may not be in my budget anyhow.

http://community.livejournal.com/tivolovers/2006/06/14/


> One extreme is the very high end of the market. I had up there on the slide a Series3 HD product which we're rolling out later this year. That is a dual tuner, actually it has more that two tuners, high definition, broadband connected, it works with all of the Internet video formats, it is a very compelling high end product. But, like a lot of high definition products, it will not be inexpensive. And for us it is an opportunity to really give consumers the best of the best. But that, for example, is not a product we will subsidize at anywhere near the level we have some of our other products.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I didn't have any expectations for July 1, so I'm not really dissapointed. Besides, if the price/market hints they've dropped are correct the S3 may not be in my budget anyhow.


You can come over and watch mine (I don't really need to add the "if they ever get around to making it" to the end of that statement do I?) I have money and I know how to use it. TiVo is just lucky that there isn't another OTA and cable HD DVR with broadband content delivery and that sweet, sweet TiVo interface on the market, or I'd be buying it right now.

Eventually, though, I'm going to break down and get the Moxi box from frickin' rob-me-blind Charter.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> ...Maybe they don't want to miss any more deadlines, like the July 1st fiasco that started this thread.


Which was wrong by 36 hours in the first place...


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> Which half is joking? Because I will kick its ass.


You know, every time I read one of your posts, I read it in my mind in Patrick Warburton's voice...and I laugh... 

(Somehow, the thought of Brock spending his spare time reading the TiVo Community Forums just makes me smile...)

Anyhoo, back on topic...my guess? Late October/early November, just in time to fill the retail channel for holiday sales.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

I really like late summer, before football season starts.

There's a guy over at Ars Technica that is claiming to have some family connection to be able to pre-purchase and get it in abut a month. Lord only knows how real it is, but when you only have one data point, you can draw a whole lot of pictures. 

(and besides, everything I read on a message board _has_ to be right, right?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> I really like late summer, before football season starts.
> 
> There's a guy over at Ars Technica that is claiming to have some family connection to be able to pre-purchase and get it in abut a month. Lord only knows how real it is, but when you only have one data point, you can draw a whole lot of pictures.


And he also thinks that Tivo still sells lifetime service.

I'd take that post with a bolder of salt until we know more details on this "deal". Maybe his family connection saw the eBay auction a few weeks back for an early Series 3.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> I'd take that post with a bolder of salt until we know more details on this "deal". Maybe his family connection saw the eBay auction a few weeks back for an early Series 3.


Is your last name "Buzzkill" by any chance? I was all set to stake out that guy's house and take his Series 3 as soon as it showed up, but now I'm just going back to breaking furniture and biting the heads off chickens.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jfh3 said:


> And he also thinks that Tivo still sells lifetime service.


If this is through some sort of employee purchase plan then it's not completely impossible that they can still get lifetime. I mean TiVo said that they would still give away lifetime service with promotional units, like those won in contests, etc... so they still have the capacity to assign lifetime service to a unit.

Also the late August early September quote is in line with the time frame from the Idol Speculation contest.

Dan


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Also the late August early September quote is in line with the time frame from the Idol Speculation contest.
> 
> Dan


I had forgotten about that nugget, I'm starting to feel good about this. Hopefully I'll finally close on the house I'm selling in 2 weeks, get the new HDTV in early Aug, and then be one of the first to dive all over the S3!!!


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> I had forgotten about that nugget, I'm starting to feel good about this. Hopefully I'll finally close on the house I'm selling in 2 weeks, get the new HDTV in early Aug, and then be one of the first to dive all over the S3!!!


Back of the line! No cutting!


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## dkahs23 (Apr 17, 2005)

Is HD really that much better than Digital?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

dkahs23 said:


> Is HD really that much better than Digital?


I think it depends a lot on the size of your TV. The bigger it is, the more HD shines.


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## dkahs23 (Apr 17, 2005)

Where I'm at in Florida My Cable provider (Brighthouse) doesn't have to many HD channels that I know of.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dkahs23 said:


> Is HD really that much better than Digital?





greg_burns said:


> I think it depends a lot on the size of your TV. The bigger it is, the more HD shines.


And live shows in HD are usually much better. American Idol is awesome in HD (forget the show itself). The MLB All-Star this week was great, but, again a lot depends on who's broadcasting it. NBC HD is pretty much panned by most; quality is not good. Fox HD is usually pretty good. CBS is decent, but I think where they shine is their DD5.1 audio; it's the best I've heard.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

dkahs23 said:


> Where I'm at in Florida My Cable provider (Brighthouse) doesn't have to many HD channels that I know of.


Nor does mine.

http://www.antennaweb.org/

Use that web site to see what you may be able to pick up free OTA. I get CBS, ABC, and PBS in HD just using a cheap pair of rabbit ears.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> Is your last name "Buzzkill" by any chance? I was all set to stake out that guy's house and take his Series 3 as soon as it showed up, but now I'm just going back to breaking furniture and biting the heads off chickens.


Dear Tivo,

Please release the Series 3 ASAP.

Thank you.

Jim Buzzkill, President, SPCC
The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Chickens


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

dkahs23 said:


> Is HD really that much better than Digital?


Apples and Oranges. Digital can be an SD or an HD signal. Most of the time a digital SD signal is better than the analog equivilent.

HD signals are always digital and provide significantly better quality (resolution, sound) than their SD counterparts.

Where possible, getting HD signals OTA is better than getting them over satellite or cable, though most cable providers compress the HD signals far less than DTV or Dish.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> If this is through some sort of employee purchase plan then it's not completely impossible that they can still get lifetime. I mean TiVo said that they would still give away lifetime service with promotional units, like those won in contests, etc... so they still have the capacity to assign lifetime service to a unit.
> 
> Also the late August early September quote is in line with the time frame from the Idol Speculation contest.


Hadn't thought about lifetime being available to employees only, so I guess that's possible.

As for the date, sounds reasonable to me. I'm still looking for an 8/15 announce.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

If the release/announcement was in August I think we would have heard better rumors or leaks by now to that effect - some beta testers just can't keep their mouths shut. I'm guessing October/November in time for Thanksgiving release and then a few months combined to be able to actually get hold of one and get the initial bugs ironed out, so probably a good 6 months for a useable product... right about the time SDV starts getting deployed in my Cox market... hope I'm wrong on all fronts.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> CBS is decent, but I think where they shine is their DD5.1 audio; it's the best I've heard.


You started watching reruns of The Unit, huh?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> You started watching reruns of The Unit, huh?


Guilty as charged....awesome.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

chuckybox said:


> Maybe they don't want to miss any more deadlines, like the July 1st fiasco that started this thread.


Face saving out:

Its not the second half of TiVo's fiscal year yet.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Now THAT is an argument we're not buying!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Guilty as charged....awesome.


I just started watching this too. I don't know how I missed it during the regular season, it's a cool show.

Dan


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## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

The NFL season is coming up fast !

* Being a diehard Fan means that I will be watching most of the pre-season too.

I want my ....


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Now that I have a HD display, I'd like a S3 ASAP too. 

My TV doesn't have any buil-in tuner. If I understand things correctly, I will be able to use the TiVo to receive OTA HD (antenna RF input) and regular analog cable (cable RF in) at the same time, and record from both sources at once? That's what I'm hoping to do at least.


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## Deacon West (Apr 16, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I just started watching this too. I don't know how I missed it during the regular season, it's a cool show.
> 
> Dan


Who knew that President Palmer would be great as a Delta Force team leader? I'm equally impressed and am glad to have caught it even at this late date. The Unit has become one of my favorites.


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Now that I have a HD display, I'd like a S3 ASAP too.
> 
> My TV doesn't have any buil-in tuner. If I understand things correctly, I will be able to use the TiVo to receive OTA HD (antenna RF input) and regular analog cable (cable RF in) at the same time, and record from both sources at once? That's what I'm hoping to do at least.


Of all the speculations about what the S3 will or won't be able to do, it's safe to say that will be definitely be able to do that...

Jeff


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## Lukej (Apr 28, 2006)

jautor said:


> Of all the speculations about what the S3 will or won't be able to do, it's safe to say that will be definitely be able to do that...
> 
> Jeff


What about the Lebanon-Israel conflict? Will the S3 be able to intervene or will it be simply be a bystander and just report the news like the DTS2?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

I read on the internet that the S3 will be able to take flight on it's own, and intercept missiles in flight. Then the Israelis and Hezbollah will sit down and watch reruns o f "I Love Lucy" and all will be well.


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## Lukej (Apr 28, 2006)

GoHokies! said:


> I read on the internet that the S3 will be able to take flight on it's own, and intercept missiles in flight. Then the Israelis and Hezbollah will sit down and watch reruns o f "I Love Lucy" and all will be well.


Only if it's the first, original seasons. If it's the episodes with Mr. Mooney, I fear an escalation.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I spoke to a CSR @ TiVo today to cancel the monthly membership on a 40 hr box since I replaced it with the DT180 summer deal. At the end of the call I inquired on the Series 3. He said that it was in Beta Test and he expected it to be released within 2 months. 

FWIW,
Sam


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sbiller said:


> I spoke to a CSR @ TiVo today to cancel the monthly membership on a 40 hr box since I replaced it with the DT180 summer deal. At the end of the call I inquired on the Series 3. He said that it was in Beta Test and he expected it to be released within 2 months....


And I have a bridge in Arizona I'd like to sell....

Seriously, I hope the CR is right.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

sbiller said:


> I spoke to a CSR @ TiVo today to cancel the monthly membership on a 40 hr box since I replaced it with the DT180 summer deal. At the end of the call I inquired on the Series 3. He said that it was in Beta Test and he expected it to be released within 2 months.


Don't you know that TiVo CSRs are on a need-to-know basis? They can't possibly divulge information because they are, by policy, not aware of any information outside of their task description. Send the CSR's name to TiVoOpsMgr, and he will see to it that the CSR is sent to a "reeducation seminar."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> Don't you know that TiVo CSRs are on a need-to-know basis? They can't possibly divulge information because they are, by policy, not aware of any information outside of their task description. Send the CSR's name to TiVoOpsMgr, and he will see to it that the CSR is sent to a "reeducation seminar."


or at least sent back to just pour the milk into the executive forum lounge baths and keep his big mouth shut


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

sbiller said:


> I spoke to a CSR @ TiVo today to cancel the monthly membership on a 40 hr box since I replaced it with the DT180 summer deal. At the end of the call I inquired on the Series 3. He said that it was in Beta Test and he expected it to be released within 2 months.
> 
> FWIW,
> Sam


I guess the CSR had permission to leak the information. 
-Sam


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I've been told directly, by TiVoOpsMgr, that TiVo CSRs do NOT get any information about products which have not yet been released. So this is nothing more then a guess by the CSR, probably based on the same information we have. In fact many of the CSRs read this forum, so they might have even got the information from this forum. 

Dan


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Too late! The cat's out of the bag.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I've been told directly, by TiVoOpsMgr, that TiVo CSRs do NOT get any information about products which have not yet been released. So this is nothing more then a guess by the CSR, probably based on the same information we have. In fact many of the CSRs read this forum, so they might have even got the information from this forum.
> 
> Dan


Talk about circular navigation


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I've been told directly, by TiVoOpsMgr, that TiVo CSRs do NOT get any information about products which have not yet been released. So this is nothing more then a guess by the CSR, probably based on the same information we have. In fact many of the CSRs read this forum, so they might have even got the information from this forum.
> 
> Dan


Argh! Every time I think we may be finally hearing something...

I know, I'm impatient. "But daddy... I want an Oompa Loompa!"


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