# Tivo is Working on Automatic Commercial Skipping



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Tivo is Working on Automatic Commercial Skipping - Cord Cutters News

_Ever hate having to fast forward through commercials on your DVR recordings? Now TiVo is rolling out automatic commercial skipping feature for DVRed recordings according to areport from Dave Zatz. According to screenshots that Tivo now removed there is an automatic commercial skipping feature in the works for TiVo DVRs for programs that have already been DVRed.

This new "SkipMode" option will give you the option to manually skip commercials or have an automatic option to skip commercials. According to Dave Zatz this new feature will come out sometime in the Spring of 2019._​


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Also see: 21.8.3.RC8 ?

I'm betting on late summer.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> according to areport from Dave Zatz. According to screenshots that Tivo now removed


Chuckle. According to Zatz' reading of a TCF post, actually; and, as I just posted to Zatz' blog post, the original Shoop Facebook comments are still in place. Nothing's been deleted; you just need to expand the linked FB post's comments to see Shoop's comments Re: AutoSkip.

(And there weren't any screenshots posted to the Facebook thread. I expect that the AutoSkip preferences screenshot in Zatz' post came from his TiVo source. That's some sloppy writing by Cord Cutters News.)


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I'm confused. Is Autoskip in the 21.8.3.RC8 release?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> I'm confused. Is Autoskip in the 21.8.3.RC8 release?


Per Zatz article, no.


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## Sparky19053 (Jul 7, 2015)

Auto skip commercials, Oh heavenly, what will do with all the free time watching one hour shows under 40 minutes. I Can't wait!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I'll definitely use this, but not seeing the commercials AT ALL, and not having animated commercials ON TOP of the programming make it worth switching inputs/using a worse UI, and paying for the streaming services.. (AS WELL as tivoing cable as a backup)


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Sparky19053 said:


> Auto skip commercials, Oh heavenly, what will do with all the free time watching one hour shows under 40 minutes. I Can't wait!


You can even do it now, and save all that time: press the 30-second skip button 6 or 7 times during the average commercial break.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Sparky19053 said:


> Auto skip commercials, Oh heavenly, what will do with all the free time watching one hour shows under 40 minutes. I Can't wait!


???? You are complaining about technology that saved you 1/3 of your time based on your numbers?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> You can sue on anything. Ask me if the government issued any lawsuits based on law.


What are you even arguing? That lawsuits were NOT a major factor in the demise of ReplayTV or a concern at TiVo in regards to implementing AutoSkip?


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

The legal issue is the whole reason i thought TiVo did the IFTTT applet. As TiVo already had SkipMode implementing Auto Skip would be trivial. But by requiring the user to set it up with an external service it keeps TiVo at arms length from the automatic part


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

longrider said:


> The legal issue is the whole reason i thought TiVo did the IFTTT applet. As TiVo already had SkipMode implementing Auto Skip would be trivial. But by requiring the user to set it up with an external service it keeps TiVo at arms length from the automatic part


Yes, correct; that was part of the prior discussion from the RC8 thread that I'm trying to redirect over here, now that we've been informed that RC8 doesn't include the feature.


krkaufman said:


> No (per my recollection), lawsuit avoidance was why skipping required the user to press a button each time.
> 
> Even the mortally-sued ReplayTV kept commercial skip functionality after the suits, but with auto-skip (Commercial Advance) replaced by a user-initiated skip, branded Skip Nav. (Right/Left navigation arrows jump to start or end points of next/previous marked commercial breaks.)


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> You can even do it now, and save all that time: press the 30-second skip button 6 or 7 times during the average commercial break.


You can do it now with TE4/Hydra and IFTTT. No button presses needed. The new feature is that IFTTT won't be needed, either.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

I think I will continue with pressing the D / Skip Button. That isn't enough to get me to go back to Hydra. 

I remember this feature fondly on my ReplayTV.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> What are you even arguing? That lawsuits were NOT a major factor in the demise of ReplayTV or a concern at TiVo in regards to implementing AutoSkip?


Yes I am arguing exactly that for the TiVo implementation. I'd suspect more of a walk then run implementation plan for TiVo.

I don't know enough about replay but I do know that defending even frivolous lawsuits can harm the financial bottom line so they could have played a part in its demise. DVRs were new back then and any distraction from financial security could derail a fledgling company. But they did not lose in court.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jcondon said:


> I think I will continue with pressing the D / Skip Button. That isn't enough to get me to go back to Hydra.
> 
> I remember this feature fondly on my ReplayTV.


Apparently there is a workaround you can achieve the same (or something similar?) with IFTTT and a Harmony remote. But my AV setup got a lot simpler once I started appreciating CEC, and got rid of my Harmony Elite. I also vastly prefer using the original TiVo remote over any less ergonomic "universal" remote out there.

I also quite like Hydra and could never imagine going back to TE3/Encore on my Roamio Plus. I regret that the negative posts about Hydra had convinced me to hold off as long as they did. I think Hydra is great, the UI overhaul was so long overdue. It's much more modernized and consistent. And CEC support is a dream come true. Native comskip is just icing on the cake.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

We recently tried Hydra on the refurbished Bolt we got last month. Not being able to watch a folder of shows was a non starter for us. We use that feature almost daily. Hydra might be prettier to some but we will not upgrade until they add that feature back or force the upgrade on us.

Plus having one interface on the Bolt and another on the 2 Premiere's is less than ideal.

The old software on the Bolt is pretty snappy. Which is the only real complaint I had with the software anyway.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jcondon said:


> Not being able to watch a folder of shows was a non starter for us. We use that feature almost daily. Hydra might be prettier to some but we will not upgrade until they add that feature back


TiVo added "play all in this folder" to Hydra late last year. I am using it right now. Dave Zatz references it in the last paragraph of this blog post: TiVo Preps Significant System Enhancements

That said, everybody's got different setups and different priorities. If I had two Premieres in the same household I'd probably prefer all of the interfaces to be consistent, too.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

I did a Google search and could not find anything definitive on it at the time. It surely wasn't on my screen nor intuitive.

I will check the link later though thanks.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

jcondon said:


> I think I will continue with pressing the D / Skip Button. That isn't enough to get me to go back to Hydra.
> 
> I remember this feature fondly on my ReplayTV.


Well if you use IFTTT than you don't need to use the d key


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Fofer said:


> TiVo added "play all in this folder" to Hydra late last year. I am using it right now. Dave Zatz references it in the last paragraph of this blog post: TiVo Preps Significant System Enhancements
> 
> That said, everybody's got different setups and different priorities. If I had two Premieres in the same household I'd probably prefer all of the interfaces to be consistent, too.


I like that feature and this new skip feature would go hand in hand with that.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JACKASTOR said:


> Well if you use IFTTT than you don't need to use the d key


Only if you're on Hydra, though. TiVo's current IFTTT solution for auto-comskip requires Hydra.

(Apparently, if you're on TE3/Encore, you can program a Harmony remote to interface with IFTTT in some way and achieve the same, as far as I understand it.)


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Fofer said:


> Only if you're on Hydra, though. TiVo's current IFTTT solution for auto-comskip requires Hydra.
> 
> (Apparently, if you're on TE3/Encore, you can program a Harmony remote to interface with IFTTT in some way and achieve the same, as far as I understand it.)


Hmmm. I know IFTTT worked on my fathers tivo and it did not have hydra. Plus I thought skip was pre hydra anyway. Skip was disabled by his cable company their bastardized TiVo units(pace boxes)


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

jcondon said:


> I did a Google search and could not find anything definitive on it at the time. It surely wasn't on my screen nor intuitive.
> 
> I will check the link later though thanks.


There is a setting in Hydra called "Auto Play Next Episode". That should auto play all shows in a folder.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JACKASTOR said:


> Hmmm. I know IFTTT worked on my fathers tivo and it did not have hydra. Plus I thought skip was pre hydra anyway.


Pre-Hydra boxes can use IFTTT -- along with the D button -- to "auto" skip entire commercial blocks.
Discussed in many places, included here: ifttt triggers

The distinction is that Hydra boxes are able to use IFTTT to _fully_ autoskip commercial blocks, no remote keypress needed at all. And soon, with the Spring 2019 update, Hydra boxes won't need IFTTT for this function either.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> There is a setting in Hydra called "Auto Play Next Episode". That should auto play all shows in a folder.


I've just been selecting the folder of recordings I wanted to play, and hitting the "play" button.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

yeah why are they doing this now? Why not 5 years ago? What's changed? 

In my mind maybe they feel like they have nothing to lose at this point.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

trip1eX said:


> yeah why are they doing this now? Why not 5 years ago? What's changed?
> 
> In my mind maybe they feel like they have nothing to lose at this point.


Because now they have some serious competition with the release of the Amazon Recast. So they need to do something bold.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Adam C. said:


> There is a setting in Hydra called "Auto Play Next Episode". That should auto play all shows in a folder.


That is not necessary to hit play on the folder. What it does is automatically start the next episode. If it is off, you get a prompt to play the next one.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> yeah why are they doing this now? Why not 5 years ago? What's changed?
> 
> In my mind maybe they feel like they have nothing to lose at this point.


Why now? This has been building for a while. They had to set up the environment to be able to support skip itself. That involved a whole staff to mark shows, etc.

And maybe, just maybe, adding things like auto skip are easier in cleaner redone code like hydra. I know a lot of software companies that rewrote code just to be able to maintain it and enhance it. Code gets bound up in itself after years of slight changes.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

I assumed TiVo decided to do it now since Tablo offers commercial skip and Amazon Recast has stated they plan to add it at some point. Maybe they feel the lawsuit risk has subsided?


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

Will TiVo be making the skip endpoint more precise? Frequently, when I use the skip ability (via the Skip button), I have to rewind a bit in order not to miss a portion of the show.


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## Salacious Crumb (Jan 1, 2019)

So unlike now EVERY show will have this option ??


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Salacious Crumb said:


> So unlike now EVERY show will have this option ??


Now THAT would be amazing.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

WorldBandRadio said:


> Will TiVo be making the skip endpoint more precise? Frequently, when I use the skip ability (via the Skip button), I have to rewind a bit in order not to miss a portion of the show.


Interesting as you are the second person to mention this happening to them. I've never seen this happen with Comcast and the shows that we watch which have SkipMode.

Scott


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

HerronScott said:


> Interesting as you are the second person to mention this happening to them. I've never seen this happen with Comcast and the shows that we watch which have SkipMode.
> Scott


It makes you wonder if both times the members reporting have something in common. Same model TiVo, same program, same time zone? I record late night, and in the last two weeks they have altered the beginning of The Tonight Show. Probably something to do with Spike Lee and money. But I had to rewind to see if the skip point had been altered. NBC just decided to change things. Late last year my cable feed decided it would be cool to scramble commercials. So far the only problem is with commercials. But if a local modification of a program doesn't make SM fail, how much damage does it need?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Salacious Crumb said:


> So unlike now EVERY show will have this option ??


Nothing about this news indicates that, unfortunately.


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## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

HerronScott said:


> Interesting as you are the second person to mention this happening to them. I've never seen this happen with Comcast and the shows that we watch which have SkipMode.


I gave Comcast as well.

I see the problem quite a bit, actually. Some shows are worse than others. Also, sometimes there's no skip to get past the final commercial sequence of a show.

However, while it would be nice to have it fixed, I can deal with this as it is.

I'd much rather TiVo put the resources into fixing the accelerating degradation of their program guide.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I got it last night on 21.9.1.v3-USC-11-849. 

New My Shows presentation and play from folder on movies as well as shows.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

What does the new My Shows presentation look like? Can you share a pic please?


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TonyD79 said:


> I got it last night on 21.9.1.v3-USC-11-849.
> 
> New My Shows presentation and play from folder on movies as well as shows.


Do you have the auto skip commercials feature?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> What does the new My Shows presentation look like? Can you share a pic please?


It looks like when you open a folder. Rather than a left/right bar, it has all the topics on the left.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Adam C. said:


> Do you have the auto skip commercials feature?


Yes.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> Do you have the auto skip commercials feature?





TonyD79 said:


> Yes.


IFTTT no longer required? Completely handled by the TiVo itself? I thought that specific update wouldn't be coming out until later this year. Sweet!


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TonyD79 said:


> Yes.


Can it be toggled on and off?


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

How long do these rollouts usually take?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> Can it be toggled on and off?


It has to be. There's no way it's forced on us.

My take is, if 21.9.1.v3-USC-11-xxx doesn't show a setting to toggle it off, than auto comskip (at least in the way this article describes) is not actually enabled in that version and folks are just confused.

I'm hoping it's there though, and that I get it soon.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Auto skip can be turned off. (But I'm hella keeping it!)

Tivo has 86'ed the dual axis layout of My Shows. It basically reverts to Encore's three-column style, with the categories (Going Away Soon, TV Shows, Movies, Kids, etc) being placed down the left side of the menu rather than horizontally scrolling along the top. Strips are no longer an option. (that odd experiment is over.)

You can also play programs without going into the program information screen. One less click.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Auto skip can be turned off. (But I'm hella keeping it!)


Are there any shortcuts to toggle it off (i.e. on-the-fly while you're watching a recording) or do you have to dig down into the Settings to turn it on/off for all playback?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Are there any shortcuts to toggle it off (i.e. on-the-fly while you're watching a recording) or do you have to dig down into the Settings to turn it on/off for all playback?


As far as I can tell it's just on/off in settings. Haven't seen shortcuts anywhere.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Thanks. Hopefully they do eventually add a shortcut, like long-press or the D button.... or something in the info screen (similar to Closed Caption toggle.) I will probably leave the feature on but occasionally there are events or recordings that I will want commercials playing on, and having to navigate to the settings to toggle comskip every time will be a little annoying.

Still very happy to finally see this feature arrive! It’s been a long time coming!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Adam C. said:


> Can it be toggled on and off?


Yes. It is in settings.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Thanks. Hopefully they do eventually add a shortcut, like long-press or the D button.... or something in the info screen (similar to Closed Caption toggle.) I will probably leave the feature on but occasionally there are events or recordings that I will want commercials playing on, and having to navigate to the settings to toggle comskip every time will be a little annoying.
> 
> Still very happy to finally see this feature arrive! It's been a long time coming!


All you have to do is FF into a commercial. It didn't appear to autoskip if you were beyond the skip point. It prompted me to skip then.


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

Does the Tivo Priority sign up page still exists or is that long gone? My bookmark just takes me to Tivo's homepage.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo has 86'ed the dual axis layout of My Shows. It basically reverts to Encore's three-column style, with the categories (Going Away Soon, TV Shows, Movies, Kids, etc) being placed down the left side of the menu rather than horizontally scrolling along the top. Strips are no longer an option. (that odd experiment is over.)


Wait.. are you saying the one thing I hated about Hydra most, the main thing keeping me from accepting it into my life, is gone - and that Now Playing works in a way that will make TE3 users happy?


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> Wait.. are you saying the one thing I hated about Hydra most, the main thing keeping me from accepting it into my life, is gone - and that Now Playing works in a way that will make TE3 users happy?


I need a screenshot, stat! This is great news. Can't believe how far they've walked it back.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> Wait.. are you saying the one thing I hated about Hydra most, the main thing keeping me from accepting it into my life, is gone - and that Now Playing works in a way that will make TE3 users happy?


Live Guide and PC transfer folks will have to keep waiting (forever?), but I think the update makes Hydra more palatable for those that don't need those things.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Live Guide and PC transfer folks will have to keep waiting (forever?), but I think the update makes Hydra more palatable for those that don't need those things.


^ This. I was just going to say, now if TiVo only would "fix" (put back in) the PC -> TiVo box transfer capability (as well as box-to-box transfer capability, without needing to use TiVo Online), and add back in the Live Guide . . . .


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Live Guide and *PC transfer* folks


Just to be clear for other folks reading along. TiVo -> PC transfer works fine in Hydra. It's PC -> TiVo transfer that's still missing.

Has TiVo made any announcement that this particular feature is coming back, or gone for good, or anything otherwise?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> All you have to do is FF into a commercial. It didn't appear to autoskip if you were beyond the skip point. It prompted me to skip then.


That's good to know, but still requires a bit too much interaction for the use case I was thinking of. (Like friends are over and the commercial break is welcome for snacks/bathroom, etc.) Or Super Bowl type events when the commercials are actually fun and part of the entertainment. I guess those events aren't frequent enough, and by and large watched live anyway, so auto-comskip won't even be available or relevant to begin with. Ah well, I guess this is good enough. I can just dig down into the Settings and turn it off when I want to.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Just to be clear for other folks reading along. TiVo -> PC transfer works fine in Hydra. It's PC -> TiVo transfer that's still missing.
> 
> Has TiVo made any announcement that this particular feature is coming back, or gone for good, or anything otherwise?


I think the best allusion we got was Ted saying Live Guide was low priority. Don't know if he addressed transfers. They have some other high priorities still to come, and knowing how slow they can be even on high priority things, I'm not holding my breath.

In any event, this update is a pretty good step for what it does have.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Just to be clear for other folks reading along. TiVo -> PC transfer works fine in Hydra.


Pardon the ignorance, but what's the current solution for transferring TiVo recordings to a PC? The last time I looked I was looking for a Mac solution.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

There are a few we have discussed previously. But I just updated cTiVo to v3.3 (some great new features there, with regards to SkipMode specifically) and it appears to be working well: mackworth/cTiVo

I also like the new virtual remote. Very cool functionality here.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Thanks!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> That's good to know, but still requires a bit too much interaction for the use case I was thinking of. (Like friends are over and the commercial break is welcome for snacks/bathroom, etc.) Or Super Bowl type events when the commercials are actually fun and part of the entertainment. I guess those events aren't frequent enough, and by and large watched live anyway, so auto-comskip won't even be available or relevant to begin with. Ah well, I guess this is good enough. I can just dig down into the Settings and turn it off when I want to.


Actually, the last two Super Bowls slipped TO the commercials so autoskip would skip the game.

For those use cases, I don't see a need for a single toggle. They are pretty determinant.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Just a note that I didn’t really dig a lot. I got presented with a new screen when I wanted to watch the Daily Show this morning, so maybe more information tonight.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

TonyD79 said:


> Just a note that I didn't really dig a lot. I got presented with a new screen when I wanted to watch the Daily Show this morning, so maybe more information tonight.


Maybe you could post a few pictures if possible?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Actually, the last two Super Bowls slipped TO the commercials so autoskip would skip the game.


LOL. I imagine with the introduction of this new feature, TiVo will be handling that presentation differently next year


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

How long do these Hydra updates typically take to roll out to everyone? I never even got the RC8 update that was posted in another thread .


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> LOL. I imagine with the introduction of this new feature, TiVo will be handling that presentation differently next year


I don't see why.....


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Adam C. said:


> How long do these Hydra updates typically take to roll out to everyone? I never even got the RC8 update that was posted in another thread .


I didn't either.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> I don't see why.....


If this new, official feature means (by its own definition) that *commercials* are auto-skipped, then its unfair and confusing to people who actually watch the Super Bowl to switch its functionality, during that recording only, in order to skip the game and only show commercials.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> If this new, official feature means (by its own definition) that *commercials* are auto-skipped, then its unfair and confusing to people who actually watch the Super Bowl to switch its functionality, during that recording only, in order to skip the game and only show commercials.


It's always been called commercial skip. And it only affect people who watch a full recording. Meaning you cannot skip until after the game is over. Not gonna affect any super bowl parties.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fofer said:


> There are a few we have discussed previously. But I just updated cTiVo to v3.3 (some great new features there, with regards to SkipMode specifically) and it appears to be working well: mackworth/cTiVo
> 
> I also like the new virtual remote. Very cool functionality here.


I was looking for a PC solution. I think KMTTG is what I was looking for.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> It's always been called commercial skip. And it only affect people who watch a full recording. Meaning you cannot skip until after the game is over. Not gonna affect any super bowl parties.


Yes but previously it required a button press. Making it automatic changes the expectations surrounding it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Yes but previously it required a button press. Making it automatic changes the expectations surrounding it.


I fail to see how.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

The My Shows screen (left side is customizable to an extent):










Open a show folder (the three dots brings up the old episode screen and the x does quick delete; play or select the episode plays it):










New preferences screen with autoskip (skip mode):


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> I fail to see how.


Sorry to hear that, but thanks for your honesty


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Sorry to hear that, but thanks for your honesty


I don't. No other sports have skip and it's been used that way for two years including people who already use autoskip, which TiVo promoted as an app. And they promote HEAVILY that you can skip the game for the commercials. It was a big ad campaign.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I appreciate your opinion, I am just saying I disagree and my hunch is that now that this feature is prominently built into the OS, their “promotion” regarding the Super Bowl and it’s commercials will be different next year. Of course I could be wrong. But for now we will have to agree to disagree, and wait and see.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> I appreciate your opinion, I am just saying I disagree and my hunch is that now that this feature is prominently built into the OS, their "promotion" regarding the Super Bowl and it's commercials will be different next year. Of course I could be wrong. But for now we will have to agree to disagree, and wait and see.


Of course. Just a discussion at this point.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TonyD79 said:


> The My Shows screen (left side is customizable to an extent):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I noticed in your pictures you have a blue theme. I'm running Hydra on my Roamio OTA and I have a black/gray theme. Did they change the colors with this recent update or do different devices have different colors?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Adam C. said:


> I noticed in your pictures you have a blue theme. I'm running Hydra on my Roamio OTA and I have a black/gray theme. Did they change the colors with this recent update or do different devices have different colors?


I don't know. Mine has always been bluish background.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Well good news on My Shows. A big "whatev" on the auto-skip - I was content hitting the D button a couple of times. I fail to see how Auto-Skip was a higher priority than getting Live Guide back and Tivo-to-Tivo transfers. There are soooooooooo many other UX improvements this tile-based piece of crap could use and they go and focus on ATSC 3.0 and Auto-Skip. Sigh...


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> I don't know. Mine has always been bluish background.


What cable-co do you have? Are you on a Bolt or Roamio? Just curious because I like the blue myself vs. the boring gray/black. Thanks for posting the pics BTW.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Seems to just be the TV/camera/both making it that blue.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

A. It is a bolt. My mini is also bluish. Cable company doesn’t matter. 

B. It isn’t the phone. The background is a blue swirl. 

C. It is only the background that is blue. The guide is gray, for example. 

D. It is the same on two different TVs with two bolts and a mini.

E. The picture is darker than in person but the hue is the same.


----------



## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> I noticed in your pictures you have a blue theme. I'm running Hydra on my Roamio OTA and I have a black/gray theme. Did they change the colors with this recent update or do different devices have different colors?


The blue background is indicative that its running v20.7/TE3. The black background is on v21.7+/TE4/Hydra.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> A. It is a bolt. My mini is also bluish. Cable company doesn't matter.
> 
> B. It isn't the phone. The background is a blue swirl.
> 
> ...


Gotchya. Thx


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Cable company doesn't matter.


It matters if the devices are supplied by the cable company and so could be running some slight variation of the TE4 UI, customized per the provider's specifications.

Retail TiVo boxes running TE4 have had a black theme, not blue.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> The blue background is indicative that its running v20.7/TE3. The black background is on v21.7+/TE4/Hydra.


Except the poster's statements and posted pics contradict this common knowledge:


TonyD79 said:


> I got it last night on 21.9.1.v3-USC-11-849.


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Willing to bet it is just the picture angle and lighting.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> Except the poster's statements and posted pics contradict this common knowledge:
> ​


Well, I came in late into this party.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Fofer said:


> If this new, official feature means (by its own definition) that *commercials* are auto-skipped, then its unfair and confusing to people who actually watch the Super Bowl to switch its functionality, during that recording only, in order to skip the game and only show commercials.


 why it only skips if you record the game


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> Well good news on My Shows. A big "whatev" on the auto-skip - I was content hitting the D button a couple of times. I fail to see how Auto-Skip was a higher priority than getting Live Guide back and Tivo-to-Tivo transfers. There are soooooooooo many other UX improvements this tile-based piece of crap could use and they go and focus on ATSC 3.0 and Auto-Skip. Sigh...


For whatever the reason (user surveys? to be consistent with how cablecos have done things, and without the complication of an alternate guide?), TiVo seemed to have decided that the Live Guide should be supplanted by the TE4 Guide--that seems to be a dead issue (although I would love to be proved wrong--I would have thought that if TiVo could have the alternate guide options under TE3, it would be just as easy to continue those options on in TE4). And for the life of me, TiVo just doesn't seem to think that TiVo box transfers are something to think about (likewise, PC -> TiVo box transfers)--but again, undoing what was done and possible before (I could see if this was new technology that TiVo needed to create-- but it instead seems to be ignoring what it already has done). I just don't get it.

As to the why for auto ad-skipping: I can see it, as I think that it is something that many users would like to have. This can be a nice selling/marketing point for TiVo, and to keep up with the competition. But I just don't see why it has to prevent the other "fixes."


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Can someone enlighten me what the big deal is about the Live Guide? The guide on Hydra is fine for me, I have no issue with it. Took me a day or two to adapt. What’s so special about the Live Guide that so many people lament its absence?


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

So has anyone other then @TonyD79 gotten this yet?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Can someone enlighten me what the big deal is about the Live Guide? The guide on Hydra is fine for me, I have no issue with it. Took me a day or two to adapt. What's so special about the Live Guide that so many people lament its absence?


The old one was a GREAT way to see what's coming up on a given channel without constant scrolling (being able to see an entire vertical screen's worth of shows at once). That capability has been utterly lost.


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

tim_m said:


> So has anyone other then @TonyD79 gotten this yet?


I got it yesterday morning on my bolt hydra


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tim_m said:


> So has anyone other then @TonyD79 gotten this yet?


And I've only gotten it on one box so far.

I'm happy with it. The My Shows change is good but auto skip is better. Even though I keep reaching for the remote.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Can someone enlighten me what the big deal is about the Live Guide? The guide on Hydra is fine for me, I have no issue with it. Took me a day or two to adapt. What's so special about the Live Guide that so many people lament its absence?


I use two systems all the time, the TiVo has the Live Guide, the DirecTV has the Grid Guide. I use both with great regularity, and much prefer the TiVo Live Guide. It's easier to use, easier to see more channels and more upcoming shows at a glance. There is nothing better about the Grid Guide. Really, I'm sitting here trying to think if there is one thing I prefer about it, and can't think of a single thing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

One thing...probably the most common thing...I use the guide for is checking what's coming up on a given channel. With the Live Guide, I could scroll through the entire two weeks' worth of Guide Data in seconds. With the Grid, it takes minutes.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

So it comes down to the sheer amount of information visible on any one guide screen? Gotcha, makes sense. I guess I don't browse the live TV grid often enough to care. I either watch recordings, search for stuff that will air in the future, or watch what's on right now. I rarely browse the grid for future shows, so this change just hasn't bothered me at all. The pros of Hydra vastly outweigh the cons. For me, at least.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

I know I sound like a broken record, but....

No one who has used any TV set top device OTHER than a TiVo has ever seen the Live Guide. Long term TiVo users are no longer the target market - cablecos are. The Grid Guide is what the VAST majority of users are accustomed to, what they expect, and what the cable providers want, so there was no impetus to include it in Hydra.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Makes sense. But I've had TiVo since 2000 and haven't had a cable box in all that time. Don't get me wrong, I appreciated the live TV guide, preferred it over the other grid... but it's not a deal-breaker to me that it's gone now. Sure, I would love to see it return one day. That sure would make a lot of people happy. But it's definitely not worth missing the Hydra improvements and new features over, IMO. 

And as always, of course, YMMV.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Diana Collins said:


> I know I sound like a broken record, but....


I wonder how many members can relate to that reference?  I use the grid since it only contains 20 channels. Those are all I care about. If I need to check out C-CPAN, I can change to "My Channels". Today I have added HBO/MAX since they are unencrypted for this weekend.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> One thing...probably the most common thing...I use the guide for is checking what's coming up on a given channel. With the Live Guide, I could scroll through the entire two weeks' worth of Guide Data in seconds. With the Grid, it takes minutes.


That's the thing I disagree with. If I turn on my TV I want to know what's on right NOW on all the channels. The grid guide makes it easiest to see this (and see it quickly). Why would I care what's on 1 particular channel 2 hours from now?? I hated the Live guide because you have to scroll channel by channel to see what's on.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> I know I sound like a broken record, but....
> 
> No one who has used any TV set top device OTHER than a TiVo has ever seen the Live Guide. Long term TiVo users are no longer the target market - cablecos are. The Grid Guide is what the VAST majority of users are accustomed to, what they expect, and what the cable providers want, so there was no impetus to include it in Hydra.


I can understand not developing a new guide format (although, even there . . . innovation can be good), but as TiVo already had the Live Guide and it was an internal success with TiVo users, why not bring it over to TE4? Having said that and not being an engineer, perhaps I'm understating the effort needed to port it over and maintain it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> That's the thing I disagree with. If I turn on my TV I want to know what's on right NOW on all the channels. The grid guide makes it easiest to see this (and see it quickly). Why would I care what's on 1 particular channel 2 hours from now?? I hated the Live guide because you have to scroll channel by channel to see what's on.


But we used to both be able to have our way. Now, only you can. Which is great for you, but not so much for me. 

(Personally, I don't care what's on right now...anything that I want to watch is already set to record. I haven't been a channel-surfer since...[looks at box to left]...2000.)


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> It looks like when you open a folder. Rather than a left/right bar, it has all the topics on the left.


.
that's in 21.8.3.RC4USC-11-849 already


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

JACKASTOR said:


> Hmmm. I know IFTTT worked on my fathers tivo and it did not have hydra. Plus I thought skip was pre hydra anyway. Skip was disabled by his cable company their bastardized TiVo units(pace boxes)


skip was pre hydra, but autoskip was post hydra


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I use two systems all the time, the TiVo has the Live Guide, the DirecTV has the Grid Guide. I use both with great regularity, and much prefer the TiVo Live Guide. It's easier to use, easier to see more channels and more upcoming shows at a glance. There is nothing better about the Grid Guide. Really, I'm sitting here trying to think if there is one thing I prefer about it, and can't think of a single thing.


We are sidetracked but you do NOT see more channels with the live guide. You see upcoming shows on a SINGLE channel. I've done the math. The number of shows are almost exactly the same in most cases. The emphasis is just different. Live guide is oriented to one channel while the grid is oriented to a block of time. Which I prefer.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> I can understand not developing a new guide format (although, even there . . . innovation can be good), but as TiVo already had the Live Guide and it was an internal success with TiVo users, why not bring it over to TE4?





Fofer said:


> That sure would make a lot of people happy.


I doubt it was a "success" or used by a lot of people. When Hydra was released they stated they had the stats for its usage and clearly decided it wasn't worth the effort to keep... it was simply a feature that didn't prove worth carrying on.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

ajwees41 said:


> .
> that's in 21.8.3.RC4USC-11-849 already


I was saying that the top view now resembles the one that everyone already knows.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But we used to both be able to have our way. Now, only you can. Which is great for you, but not so much for me.
> 
> (Personally, I don't care what's on right now...anything that I want to watch is already set to record. I haven't been a channel-surfer since...[looks at box to left]...2000.)


 Not really true. The new live guide is similar in emphasis and showing programs on a single channel. It is just poster based rather than text.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Except the poster's statements and posted pics contradict this common knowledge:
> ​


Yes, this is VERY interesting to me. I have one Bolt running TE4, but it is still on 21.8.3.RC8. The My Shows menu on that box is still the black background without the left side panel. Tony's pictures of 21.9.1 look more like the old TE3 My Shows screen, but without the HORRIBLE WORTHLESS tiles of the Discovery Bar! To me, this is actually the very FIRST improvement I have seen with Hydra over TE3.

Now if they would just put back program transfers, I might even be willing to accept TE4. It depends on what else might have changed too. I really don't care about auto skip - in fact, I do not even want it; I prefer to use the skip button or 30 sec jump. But if auto skip can be turned off like the pictures show, then it is the best of both worlds. Just like it would be if they also put back the Live Guide (which I also do not like or want, but we should have the option).

Since they already had the Live Guide and Transfers built into their software, there was really no justification I can think of to remove them. Giving customers options to tailor the UI is a good thing - taking those options away is a BAD thing!


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## skypros (May 19, 2015)

Is this Screen Shot I took on my iPad the LIVE GUIDE that is being discussed?
And if so.... I am all about Choice, but *I really dislike it*, and I have found no way to turn it off on my iPad Tivo App.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

V7Goose said:


> Since they already had the Live Guide and Transfers built into their software, there was really no justification I can think of to remove them.


To a large degree it's semantics however my understanding is they rewrote the (entire) software and as such nothing was removed... rather things weren't added to the new release. Might not sound any different but having programmed since the 80s they didn't delete x lines of code... rather they didn't spend x time and expense writing x lines of new code.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

skypros said:


> Is this Screen Shot I took on my iPad the LIVE GUIDE that is being discussed?
> And if so.... I am all about Choice, but *I really dislike it*, and I have found no way to turn it off on my iPad Tivo App.
> 
> View attachment 40268


No, the Live Guide they are discussing is on TE3/Encore (and earlier) software on actual TiVo hardware, like Bolts, Roamios and Minis. It's been one of the two grid options for TiVo's UI since the very beginning.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

TonyD79 said:


> The My Shows screen (left side is customizable to an extent):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks tony


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Fofer said:


> No, the Live Guide they are discussing is on TE3/Encore (and earlier) software on actual TiVo hardware, like Bolts, Roamios and Minis. It's been one of the two grid options for TiVo's UI since the very beginning.


Actually, the iPad interface looks like Live Guide to me. But as Fofer said, with TE3 you can pick between Live Guide or Grid. A complete mystery to us all how this is possible on iOS, Android and TE3 but not Hydra.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Diana Collins said:


> I know I sound like a broken record, but....
> 
> No one who has used any TV set top device OTHER than a TiVo has ever seen the Live Guide. Long term TiVo users are no longer the target market - cablecos are. The Grid Guide is what the VAST majority of users are accustomed to, what they expect, and what the cable providers want, so there was no impetus to include it in Hydra.


The majority of Tivo's largest and longest partners have been with them for a fair bit of time now, were using TE3, and thus recognize the Live Guide too. It just seems weird that it's so frequently the partners' fault despite Tivo evolving in ways for, against, or indifferent to their partners' interests.

Partners are a scapegoat in the void of actual information. There's no good reason why they'd even care if Live Guide were an added option. SkipMode wouldn't exist if partner approval was the arbiter of everything Tivo does.

I'm not saying Live Guide should be a high priority, but it's clearly a Tivo choice, not a partner one. Some folks just need to replace the broken vinyl.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Diana Collins said:


> I know I sound like a broken record, but....
> 
> No one who has used any TV set top device OTHER than a TiVo has ever seen the Live Guide. Long term TiVo users are no longer the target market - cablecos are. The Grid Guide is what the VAST majority of users are accustomed to, what they expect, and what the cable providers want, so there was no impetus to include it in Hydra.


Right on the money. I think retail TiVo users dont realize what a small group they are. TiVo is going to do what it takes to please the cablecos.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mschnebly said:


> Right on the money. I think retail TiVo users dont realize what a small group they are. TiVo is going to do what it takes to please the cablecos.


And why wouldn't/don't the cablecos like the Live Guide? (Disclosure: I've (almost) never had cable and so don't know what they provide.) I would think (silly me) that the cablecos would like for their customers to be happy, and if that means having the choice of guide views, so much the better. Certainly, the cablecos aren't _opposed_ to the Live Guide, or are they?


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

TonyD79 said:


> And I've only gotten it on one box so far.
> 
> I'm happy with it. The My Shows change is good but auto skip is better. Even though I keep reaching for the remote.


Haha yeah I bet that's gonna take a bit getting used to.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tim_m said:


> Haha yeah I bet that's gonna take a bit getting used to.


Somehow, if I dig deep down inside, I think I can find the strength to make the adjustment...


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I have 21.9.1.v3-USC-11-849 but Skip Mode does not appear in Settings as shown in the screen shot above.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Certainly, the cablecos aren't _opposed_ to the Live Guide, or are they?


LOL. You nailed it Mike - that is _the _deal breaker with Cablecos - Live Guide. I'm sure if we read the licensing agreements in place with them that they expressly said that implementing Live Guide on TE4 would put Tivo in breach of contract. 

It's a feature folks. A feature that already runs on Android, iOS and TE3. The long-time Tivo crowd aren't asking for a new feature. We just want it put on TE4 as well. If you like the grid guide - have at it. I mean, the new Auto-Skip can be disabled. Why shouldn't the user be able to disable grid guide too? Especially since many feel Live Guide is THE TIVO guide. Anybody can do a grid guide. Tivo's Live Guide was a hallmark differentiator (and still is...if Tivo would let it be).

Wanna know what I really think? May 9th will be really telling. I suspect this Auto-Skip, ATSC 3.0 crap, and fire-sales on refurbs, etc. is all to pump out good news and hype to counter what will likely be another bad earnings call. It also smacks of putting lipstick on a pig to make the product business (at least) more attractive to potential buyers.

Off to set my VCR for tonight's episode of Seinfeld.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> It's been one of the two grid options for TiVo's UI since the very beginning.


"Guide" options. And Live Guide's absence from TE4/Hydra has had any number of threads dedicated to its discussion ... so can that discussion please migrate over, so this thread can remain focused on AutoSkip.

See: No Live Guide in Hydra/gen4 UI
Also: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!



exdishguy said:


> Wanna know what I really think?


Not that you waited for the solicited responses, but, having sampled what you apparently only half-thought, no; though subscribers to the following thread may eagerly await your insights:

Is TiVo in trouble?


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Mikeguy said:


> And why wouldn't/don't the cablecos like the Live Guide? (Disclosure: I've (almost) never had cable and so don't know what they provide.) I would think (silly me) that the cablecos would like for their customers to be happy, and if that means having the choice of guide views, so much the better. Certainly, the cablecos aren't _opposed_ to the Live Guide, or are they?


When was the last time you heard of a cableco giving their customers a better cable box with more options because they wanted to make them happy?


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## CajunRuss (Oct 1, 2014)

Good release! Improvements to UI and auto skip. Good job Tivo.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

PJO1966 said:


> I have 21.9.1.v3-USC-11-849 but Skip Mode does not appear in Settings as shown in the screen shot above.


Back in the old days there would be a thread created with the title "21.9.1.v3" by now. I still don't have it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Here you go!

21.9.1.v3


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

JoeKustra said:


> Back in the old days there would be a thread created with the title "21.9.1.v3" by now. I still don't have it.


I don't have it either. Is there a way to get priority for the update rollout? For some updates in the past, I remember this could be requested.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> B. It isn't the phone. The background is a blue swirl.


The blue swirl is only visible if you have background pictures enabled in your User Preferences.

I found the black/gray screens and text much too hard to read until I turned off all that foo foo garbage - it was just another very annoying thing I hated about Hydra. With this new 21.9 release, maybe that won't be an issue anymore.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mschnebly said:


> When was the last time you heard of a cableco giving their customers a better cable box with more options because they wanted to make them happy?


As I said, I'm not a cable consumer--I don't understand a business model which doesn't try to satisfy a customer and prevent a customer from leaving.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> "Guide" options. And Live Guide's absence from TE4/Hydra has had any number of threads dedicated to its discussion ... so can that discussion please migrate over, so this thread can remain focused on AutoSkip.
> 
> See: No Live Guide in Hydra/gen4 UI
> Also: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!
> ...


Having fully read what you apparently only half-read in the thread you recommended it seems to me that speculating about features that could have been a higher priority than Auto-Skip is germane to the discussion. But if it suits you better to insult me over an opinion in a forum that hosts many opinions, have at it. You might want to get that thin-skin looked at by a dermatologist.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah, given that this flavor of auto-comskip (i.e. SkipMode) *requires* Hydra, it seems only natural and inevitable that the at least some discussion of the “downsides” of upgrading to Hydra, will sneak into the chat. I wouldn’t worry about it. There are hundreds of other threads, the Internet is a big place. It’s not like this is some “official” thread where we are only allowed to mention SkipMode and nothing else. Anyone who isn’t interested can ignore or unsubscribe.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

So back on "topic." I just checked and only 20% of my cable recorded content is flagged for Skip. Which makes me think this feature is much more about marketing bluster than practical use. Is it neat? Sure, when there is content to use it, it is very cool. For the few times that I can actually use the feature could I live with hitting the D button a few times on the 1 out of 5 shows that are actually flagged? You betchya.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NO!! EVERY THREAD MUST REMAIN ABSOLUTELY ON-TOPIC!!!

Have we learned nothing from Big Bang Theory?!?


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Mikeguy said:


> As I said, I'm not a cable consumer--I don't understand a business model which doesn't try to satisfy a customer and prevent a customer from leaving.


Maybe that's why you are a TiVo fan instead of using that box from a cableco.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> "Guide" options. And Live Guide's absence from TE4/Hydra has had any number of threads dedicated to its discussion ... so can that discussion please migrate over, so this thread can remain focused on AutoSkip.


I agree it gets old... endlessly posting about a feature not popular enough to carry over to a new release. Now autoskip is one of two features that stopped me from picking up a Recast. I didn't think I'd find it that useful however outside of PBS it works on virtually all of my recordings (OTA) and for some unknown reason is far more satifying than the few seconds you gain by not fast-forwarding.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Charles R said:


> I didn't think I'd find it that useful however outside of PBS it works on virtually all of my recordings (OTA)


That sounds kinda strange, since skip is NOT available on virtually all of MY recordings! Does this mean that you record virtually nothing except prime time network programs (and PBS)? Or are you saying that auto skip is working on many programs that are not generally skip enabled?

I sure hope it is not the latter (he says strangely); because, if it is, it means I'm gonna have to take time to test something that I don't even want right now!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

V7Goose said:


> I sure hope it is not the latter (he says strangely); because, if it is, it means I'm gonna have to take time to test something that I don't even want right now!


I have a few extra tuners if it will help you to test a program or two. Whenever one of my 1P fails, and I have about 30, I put a post here: Skip not available on shows recorded tonight

The only programs I record that never have SM are Late Night and Highway Thru Hell. But they are not supposed to have it.


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## JolDC (Dec 21, 2001)

exdishguy said:


> So back on "topic." I just checked and only 20% of my cable recorded content is flagged for Skip. Which makes me think this feature is much more about marketing bluster than practical use. Is it neat? Sure, when there is content to use it, it is very cool. For the few times that I can actually use the feature could I live with hitting the D button a few times on the 1 out of 5 shows that are actually flagged? You betchya.


It isn't fair to say something is "marketing bluster" because it doesn't seem to hit your viewing habits. With up to 160 hours a day across 20 channels it has practical use in a lot of homes including mine.










If there are channels you think should be added, let TiVo know. They can actually see what viewership their TiVo owners give to those channels and if it is enough to add them, all they need to do is hire another person for their NC team to tag the commercials on that channel.

(Keep in mind the feature depends on closed captioning so if your shows or channels have CC issues, skip mode just won't be an option.)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bear in mind that list is YEARS old (how long has it been since ABC Family was a thing?), dating from when the feature was first launched...they've made adjustments over the years. E.g., BBCA now has Skip, and for a while they were sporadically doing it on MSNBC (although it's been a while...months?...since I've seen it there). I'm sure there are other examples...


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

V7Goose said:


> That sounds kinda strange, since skip is NOT available on virtually all of MY recordings! Does this mean that you record virtually nothing except prime time network programs (and PBS)? Or are you saying that auto skip is working on many programs that are not generally skip enabled?
> 
> I sure hope it is not the latter (he says strangely); because, if it is, it means I'm gonna have to take time to test something that I don't even want right now!





JolDC said:


> It isn't fair to say something is "marketing bluster" because it doesn't seem to hit your viewing habits. With up to 160 hours a day across 20 channels it has practical use in a lot of homes including mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're sitting where I am - and apparently several others - you wouldn't be saying that. The whole point is that they spent precious time and resources to implement a feature that not everyone can use if they choose to (try to) use it. Do you think Tivo will have disclaimers in some markets that Skip only works on certain channels and content? Nope. They will market this feature as the next-coming and there will be users that will get it home only to learn that the feature only works in some markets, on certain channels, and for certain shows - and may not work at all [insert legal disclaimers here].

Honestly, I'm not sure why debating the value of certain features is so offensive to any end-user amongst ourselves here on this forum. I'm not offended that you don't care about Live Guide - I really don't care. My quarrel is with execs at Rovi/Tivo that think they know it all (whilst they slip into oblivion financially). I know for a fact there are many within Tivo itself that have admitted Live Guide is a staple and easily one of the top most requested "features" to be added in TE4. They are every bit as perplexed by the unwillingness to implement the feature but out of fear of losing their jobs at a struggling company with a CEO that is blatantly shopping any and all parts of the company, they aren't about to speak up. And I am merely wondering aloud why this very nice feature (for the few that can use it 100% of the time) was prioritized over a feature that could be used 100% of the time we push the Guide button (if the user prefers Live Guide).


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> NO!! EVERY THREAD MUST REMAIN ABSOLUTELY ON-TOPIC!!!
> 
> Have we learned nothing from Big Bang Theory?!?


BAZINGA!


----------



## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

exdishguy said:


> And I am merely wondering aloud why this very nice feature (for the few that can use it 100% of the time) was prioritized over a feature that could be used 100% of the time we push the Guide button (if the user prefers Live Guide).


If one would suggest the value (to TiVo's user base) is higher for _Live Guide_ than _AutoSkip_ I'd have to think tunnel vision is in play. What percentage of their user base does each use and what time will be saved based on their usage?

If I had to take a wild guess at users I'd say less than 1% Live Guide and 99% AutoSkip.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> If you're sitting where I am - and apparently several others - you wouldn't be saying that. The whole point is that they spent precious time and resources to implement a feature that not everyone can use if they choose to (try to) use it. Do you think Tivo will have disclaimers in some markets that Skip only works on certain channels and content? Nope. They will market this feature as the next-coming and there will be users that will get it home only to learn that the feature only works in some markets, on certain channels, and for certain shows - and may not work at all [insert legal disclaimers here].
> 
> Honestly, I'm not sure why debating the value of certain features is so offensive to any end-user amongst ourselves here on this forum. I'm not offended that you don't care about Live Guide - I really don't care. My quarrel is with execs at Rovi/Tivo that think they know it all (whilst they slip into oblivion financially). I know for a fact there are many within Tivo itself that have admitted Live Guide is a staple and easily one of the top most requested "features" to be added in TE4. They are every bit as perplexed by the unwillingness to implement the feature but out of fear of losing their jobs at a struggling company with a CEO that is blatantly shopping any and all parts of the company, they aren't about to speak up. And I am merely wondering aloud why this very nice feature (for the few that can use it 100% of the time) was prioritized over a feature that could be used 100% of the time we push the Guide button (if the user prefers Live Guide).


I like the Live Guide, and would like to see its being brought to TE4. Having said that, for simplicity and engineering purposes, I can see a company deciding to use a single interface/sub-interface rather than offering alternatives. But I also don't know the hassles or not of that, as well as the perceived potential gain to TiVo of offering options (e.g. product differentiation, and providing the consumer with options?).

I_ do_ see the automatic gain to TiVo of offering auto ad-skipping: in addition to the benefits of the feature itself, without having it, I could see TiVo being seen as a second-comer in the face of competing products offering the feature, including in product roundups and reviews. My guess is, the TiVo Marketing Dept. would have a strong feeling there.

What I find interesting for the future is a comparison of auto ad-skipping systems between products in actual operation: how well will the automated 24/7/all-channel auto ad-skipping systems work, as compared to TiVo's curated ~8/7/selected-channel auto ad-skipping, and will TiVo feel the pressure to expand, potentially via an automated system?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I'll also say, the addition of CEC for remote control (in the previous update to Hydra) has had more of a positive impact on my TiVo experience than the Live Guide ever did. That I can turn on my TV (if it's off) and switch to the correct input for TiVo, with one press of a button on my actual TiVo remote, has felt like a game-changer. I love it. I smile inside every time I use it. My only regret is waiting as long as I did.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Charles R said:


> If one would suggest the value (to TiVo's user base) is higher for _Live Guide_ than _AutoSkip_ I'd have to think tunnel vision is in play. What percentage of their user base does each use and what time will be saved based on their usage?
> 
> If I had to take a wild guess at users I'd say less than 1% Live Guide and 99% AutoSkip.


99% of 0% is still 0% for those that can't use it. Even if only 10% of Tivo users want Live Guide back, 1% of 10% of those that want Live Guide is assuredly more than 0%. 

But I see your point. Seriously. We'll see soon enough if Auto-Skip will save Tivo. Not that Live Guide would have either...to your point.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> I like the Live Guide, and would like to see its being brought to TE4. Having said that, for simplicity and engineering purposes, I can see a company deciding to use a single interface/sub-interface rather than offering alternatives. But I also don't know the hassles or not of that, as well as the perceived potential gain to TiVo of offering options (e.g. product differentiation, and providing the consumer with options?).
> 
> I_ do_ see the automatic gain to TiVo of offering auto ad-skipping: in addition to the benefits of the feature itself, without having it, I could see TiVo being seen as a second-comer in the face of competing products offering the feature, including in product roundups and reviews. My guess is, the TiVo Marketing Dept. would have a strong feeling there.
> 
> What I find interesting for the future is a comparison of auto ad-skipping systems between products in actual operation: how well will the automated 24/7/all-channel auto ad-skipping systems work, as compared to TiVo's curated ~8/7/selected-channel auto ad-skipping, and will TiVo feel the pressure to expand, potentially via an automated system?


Good points Mike. My overriding concern is that Tivo is behind the 8-ball in creating a platform that will enable an ecosystem of apps, embrace more and more streaming services, and still support OTA and cable channels all whilst making sure the UX is seamless and compelling when compared to the many many many "free" UX interfaces there are out there entering the media consumption market. So I'll drop Live Guide (I think I just heard a sigh of relief by some on this thread ). Auto-skip is nifty for some. Nifty for me too when it can be used...which for me, is only 20% of the time so far. There are still lots of improvements that can be made. Tuner selection, favorites, tiles where they aren't needed, tiles that don't have artwork so look like a big block of green or blue, and still way way way too many clicks to get to some features/apps than is necessary. They need to streamline the consumption experience and focus on leading the way with the very best user experience in the market.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> So I'll drop Live Guide (I think I just heard a sigh of relief by some on this thread ).


No, don't--I still want it!


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Charles R said:


> If one would suggest the value (to TiVo's user base) is higher for _Live Guide_ than _AutoSkip_ I'd have to think tunnel vision is in play. What percentage of their user base does each use and what time will be saved based on their usage?
> 
> If I had to take a wild guess at users I'd say less than 1% Live Guide and 99% AutoSkip.


I disagree. I think live guide is very important. And I would say so is the convenience of auto skip. But I can fast forward through the commercials but I loose the convenience of live guide view which simply put has no adequate replacement.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

This is a good feature for Hydra users. Now when can we get AutoSkip for Android/iOS platform?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

JACKASTOR said:


> But I can fast forward through the commercials but I loose the convenience of live guide view which simply put has no adequate replacement.


I agree "_there is no adequate replacement_" for those that feel as such. I simply believe they are next to zero if you do any rounding of their user base. I tried the Live Guide once in 2000, hated it and never used it again. So there is no reason for any replacement regardless of how adequate it may or may not be. 

I understand some people have drawn a line in the sand and the tile replacement (for them) probably adds insult to injury. At the same time TiVo looked at its usage and clearly decided it wasn't worthwhile and I'm going to respect their data and their decision. And common sense (_what little I have)_ leads me to believe it's much to do about nothing for the user base.

I guess I'll close the topic (for me) with I understand some people want the feature I just can't understand why they feel TiVo should add it to the new release. There are many features I would like to add and I'm pretty sure TiVo would be nuts to add virtually any of them!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

moyekj said:


> This is a good feature for Hydra users. Now when can we get AutoSkip for Android/iOS platform?


Get in line, bud--TE3 first.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> Get in line, bud--TE3 first.


Yes, wouldn't mind that as well (since I'm TE3), but not holding my breath on that happening either...


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

I don't get the fascination with the Live guide (or really any guide at all). 99% of what I watch on my Tivo is from a series recording. So everything is already programmed to record. I just go to My Shows and there they are waiting for me. What are you guys doing that you have to access the guide so much?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> I don't get the fascination with the Live guide (or really any guide at all). 99% of what I watch on my Tivo is from a series recording. So everything is already programmed to record. I just go to My Shows and there they are waiting for me. What are you guys doing that you have to access the guide so much?


I use it as my electronic TV Guide, to see what's on for the evening (or whenever).

I adopted the Live Guide many years ago, after playing with the options some, and have used it since. I just switched to the Grid Guide, as an experiment--am looking to give it the weekend. My immediate reaction, though: I seem to have to do a lot of jumping around to see what's on for the evening.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> I don't get the fascination with the Live guide (or really any guide at all). 99% of what I watch on my Tivo is from a series recording. So everything is already programmed to record. I just go to My Shows and there they are waiting for me. What are you guys doing that you have to access the guide so much?


E.g., every couple of weeks I scroll through a couple of weeks worth of HBO listings to see what's coming up that I want to watch. Much more laborious in the Grid.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Charles R said:


> I tried the Live Guide once in 2000, hated it and never used it again. So there is no reason for any replacement regardless of how adequate it may or may not be.


Wait, we got our first TiVo in June 2000 (Sony SVR-2000 for my Father's Day gift) and I did not think TiVo's had a grid guide until later? We've always used the Live Guide since days one so that's the one that we are used to although we rarely browse the guide.

Scott


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Adam C. said:


> I don't get the fascination with the Live guide (or really any guide at all). 99% of what I watch on my Tivo is from a series recording. So everything is already programmed to record. I just go to My Shows and there they are waiting for me. What are you guys doing that you have to access the guide so much?


I have a 6 tuner Bolt with Cablecard. I like to see whats on particular cable channels similar to what we used to do in the old days when we "flipped though channels." So as Mike said above, I can easily see what is on 8 hours of programming on one channel with Live Guide with 2-3 clicks. I'd have to click 8-10 times right with the grid guide just to see what is on one channel over that same 8 hours. That is a PITA.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I like how I can use a TiVo to record stuff and watch it at my convenience.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> I like how I can use a TiVo to record stuff and watch it at my convenience.


LOL. Yea that too.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> E.g., every couple of weeks I scroll through a couple of weeks worth of HBO listings to see what's coming up that I want to watch. Much more laborious in the Grid.


You only have one hbo channel? If you don't you have to do the scan for every one individually with the live guide. And don't give me that hbo repeats on every channel. They don't other than the time zone duplicates. I can hardly ever think of when I want to look at just one channel at a time which is what love guide does. You may like it better but this argument is just nonsense as it doesn't hold up in 2019.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> You only have one hbo channel? If you don't you have to do the scan for every one individually with the live guide. And don't give me that hbo repeats on every channel. They don't other than the time zone duplicates. I can hardly ever think of when I want to look at just one channel at a time which is what love guide does. You may like it better but this argument is just nonsense as it doesn't hold up in 2019.


OK, since your use doesn't match mine, I will no longer wish I could have the way that works for me, and instead just be happy that you have the way that works for you.


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## lman (Nov 14, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> OK, since your use doesn't match mine, I will no longer wish I could have the way that works for me, and instead just be happy that you have the way that works for you.


Sounds good. Now where is my Auto Commercial Skipping!!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

FWIW, I do the same thing as Rob with the guide. There are a few channels that show things I like, but not in a "Season Pass" type of manner. For example, AXS has all sorts of music related shows--interviews, concerts, whatnot. I'll use the guide, either one, to scroll thru listings for the next few days, looking to see if anything interests me. Same with a cooking channel or two. And sometimes the premium channels (HBO, SHO, etc) to see if any new first-run movies are premiering.

As I've mentioned before, I have both TiVo and DirecTV. Doing this on a TiVo Live guide is a joy--easy, fast, informative. Doing it on a DirecTV grid guide is a royal PITA. Even worse, DirecTV has this weird mini-Live guide option that you can use on a one-time basis on a single channel (ie, it has to be activated each time). It shows... wait for it... two new shows each time you scroll down. Who thought showing two new lines on a display makes sense?

I use the grid guide all the time, since 70% of my viewing is on DirecTV. So don't give me any "you get used to it". I've been getting used to it for ten years. And it's just not as useful as a Live Guide.

YMMV. And probably does. But don't tell me _"I can hardly ever think of when I want to look at just one channel at a time which is what live guide does. You may like it better but this argument is just nonsense as it doesn't hold up in 2019."_

Thank u next.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

astrohip said:


> FWIW, I do the same thing as Rob with the guide. There are a few channels that show things I like, but not in a "Season Pass" type of manner. For example, AXS has all sorts of music related shows--interviews, concerts, whatnot. I'll use the guide, either one, to scroll thru listings for the next few days, looking to see if anything interests me. Same with a cooking channel or two. And sometimes the premium channels (HBO, SHO, etc) to see if any new first-run movies are premiering.
> 
> As I've mentioned before, I have both TiVo and DirecTV. Doing this on a TiVo Live guide is a joy--easy, fast, informative. Doing it on a DirecTV grid guide is a royal PITA. Even worse, DirecTV has this weird mini-Live guide option that you can use on a one-time basis on a single channel (ie, it has to be activated each time). It shows... wait for it... two new shows each time you scroll down. Who thought showing two new lines on a display makes sense?
> 
> ...


Stop making sense.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> You only have one hbo channel? If you don't you have to do the scan for every one individually with the live guide. And don't give me that hbo repeats on every channel. They don't other than the time zone duplicates. I can hardly ever think of when I want to look at just one channel at a time which is what love guide does. You may like it better but this argument is just nonsense as it doesn't hold up in 2019.


Only 1 HBO channel in HD here with our Comcast franchise so we don't bother with the rest. Really sad that's the case. 

Scott


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## Salacious Crumb (Jan 1, 2019)

JolDC said:


> It isn't fair to say something is "marketing bluster" because it doesn't seem to hit your viewing habits. With up to 160 hours a day across 20 channels it has practical use in a lot of homes including mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But i have shows recorded off some of those channels that DONT have skip like TNT:
- total recall doest have skip
- oceans 12 has skip but oceans 11 & 13 dont
So even that list isnt correct.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TiVo needs to colorize the grid guide to highlight programming by type, allowing the customer to toggle the program types to be highlighted, and customizing the colors used.


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## eman926 (Sep 5, 2016)

Question. Do I have to disable or uninstall any of my IFTTT applets that use Skip in order to get this update? Such as the “Alexa, trigger Skip” or the automatic Skip IFTTT provides (even though it doesn’t work all the time). (Those are two examples of a few of the IFTTT applets that work with the Skip feature that I use.)


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

eman926 said:


> Question. Do I have to disable or uninstall any of my IFTTT applets that use Skip in order to get this update? Such as the "Alexa, trigger Skip" or the automatic Skip IFTTT provides (even though it doesn't work all the time). (Those are two examples of a few of the IFTTT applets that work with the Skip feature that I use.)


When you get the update, and assuming you choose to enable AutoSkip on your TiVo, you will need to disable the AutoSkip applet on IFTTT or you will get two skips.

As to when you'll get the update, it's a mystery.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Just curious. Why is it called “Live Guide” when it sounds like the primary purpose of it is to easily/quickly see what’s airing *in the future* on any one channel?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Fofer said:


> Just curious. Why is it called "Live Guide" when it sounds like the primary purpose of it is to easily/quickly see what's airing *in the future* on any one one channel?


Calling it "Dead Guide" wouldn't sell. 

But probably no one thought to call it "Future Programs On One Channel For A Few Hours". Wouldn't fit either.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Sorry if I missed this, but is the Live Guide back with new Spring release? I have not gotten it yet in my Bolt+


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

thyname said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but is the Live Guide back with new Spring release? I have not gotten it yet in my Bolt+


No. That's why you'll see the same 5 people complaining over and over.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Adam C. said:


> No. That's why you'll see the same 5 people complaining over and over.


Lol--way more than that, you can be assured.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Citation, please.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

The same source as the post I was replying to.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

It’s a subset of a subset of a subset of TiVo’s installed base. A new TiVo user wouldn’t know that it was missing and likely wouldn’t care.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Yep. If you don't know that a superior system is there, you just live with whatever pain you have.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Not me. I don’t really care about its loss, I got quickly used to Hydra and its advantages, advantages that I appreciate far more. 

I feel badly for folks who miss Live Guide though. That’s gotta be frustrating.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)




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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Adam C. said:


> No. That's why you'll see the same 5 people complaining over and over.


Stop complaining about us complainers and there will be one less complainer.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> View attachment 40332


Love it. That sums things up perfectly. Long time Tivo customers beating a stubborn Jackass in the nuts and they (Tivo) STILL won't bring Live Guide back.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

exdishguy said:


> Stop complaining about us complainers and there will be one less complainer.


A drop in the ocean at this point.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Adam C. said:


> No. That's why you'll see the same 5 people complaining over and over.


Make it six now!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> Only 1 HBO channel in HD here with our Comcast franchise so we don't bother with the rest. Really sad that's the case.
> 
> Scott


Sorry about that.

But in that case the new live guide shows the same number of movies as the old one.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> Make it six now!


Right, but does it need to be in this thread, to which some have subscribed to keep abreast of the rollout of AutoSkip?

See: No Live Guide in Hydra/gen4 UI
Also: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Right, but does it need to be in this thread, to which some have subscribed to keep abreast of the rollout of AutoSkip?
> 
> See: No Live Guide in Hydra/gen4 UI
> Also: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


Has it occurred to any of you that think us complainers are polluting this thread that we are smart enough to know that THIS thread might be THE only thread monitored by Tivo this week? I mean they are the ones that choose to implement this feature and are likely watching to see the impact and/or how well it is received? And since they clearly think Live Guide is a lower priority, why would they follow those other threads at all? If they only have time to monitor one thread on this forum this week, I hope its this one and I hope they see us unimpressed with a feature that suits very few.

But again, this will be a big marketing campaign(s) very soon. The real question will be this gentlemen:

Will Auto-Skip matter to the new (Millennial and Gen-Zs) that Tivo is desperately trying to attract as new customers?

I'll cite one article I admittedly found in 2 seconds of Googling Cable and Traditional TV Lose Cord Cutters, Millennials, and Gen Z

So there you have it. They just spent time and money developing a feature that runs exclusively on their comparatively horrible tile interface (when compared to other tiled interfaces); only works for flagged content that in some markets = 0%, some maybe 20% of content, and some supposedly 100% of the content; while trying to appeal to an ever-shrinking user base of cable TV and OTA customers with said feature; into a cable TV and OTA market space that fundamentally makes money on advertisements/commercials.

Yea...one can see how crazy we are to question the wisdom of making Auto-Skip feature a priority. You're all *****ing about the "minority" of Tivo customers that want Live Guide back whilst ignoring the fact that Auto-Skip will only be helpful to a select few and most certainly won't move the needle to lure new Millennial and Gen-Z customers. That puts you in the minority too.

Welcome to the club.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

exdishguy said:


> Welcome to the club.


I work on the premise that TiVo doesn't monitor ANY thread on ANY forum. When they had their own help forum they seldom monitored that. They are on Twitter a lot, so that's my communication method, even though (like their Chat), it's only weekdays.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

exdishguy said:


> You're all *****ing about the "minority" of Tivo customers that want Live Guide back


Not at all; I hope Live Guide returns. My only complaint has clearly been polluting this thread with Live Guide discussion, seemingly and now confirmed as a selfish exercise, at least on the part of one participant. I'd have started another thread for AutoSkip if it wasn't likely to be similarly diverted.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I'm sorry I started this thread
…and still no software update for me


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Welcome to the club.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> I'm sorry I started this thread
> &#8230;and still no software update for me


Well despite my *****ing and moaning about Tivo's priorities, the Auto-Skip is pretty cool. Albeit, only 8 out of 35 recorded shows on my Bolt are flagged SKIP.

In fact, it works so well I discovered an unintended issue (for me anyway). I was out late with the wife and decided to watch SNL when we got home. It recorded and was flagged to auto-skip. Next thing I know I woke up to find the show was over already...I had dozed off and auto-skip blew through the commercial breaks with ease. It occurred to me in this specific situation I would likely benefit from the commercial breaks to possibly wake me back up and finish the show.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> &#8230;and still no software update for me





JoeKustra said:


> Welcome to the club.


I wonder what is going on behind the scenes. I can't recall another update having been released and so few people here having received it sooner rather than later. Part of me wonders if there's been a more limited release as a sort of beta, to catch any issues before a more expanded release.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

exdishguy said:


> Albeit, only 8 out of 35 recorded shows on my Bolt are flagged SKIP.


Yeah.... all my recorded HBO shows don't have the Skip enabled


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

thyname said:


> Yeah.... all my recorded HBO shows don't have the Skip enabled


Oh wow...and here I thought my Apple TV just didn't have auto-skip while I was watching HBO on it.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Mikeguy said:


> I wonder what is going on behind the scenes. I can't recall another update having been released and so few people here having received it sooner rather than later. Part of me wonders if there's been a more limited release as a sort of beta, to catch any issues before a more expanded release.


It was only pushed to the first person 5 days ago. Seems perfectly normal
Rollout


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

compnurd said:


> It was only pushed to the first person 5 days ago. Seems perfectly normal
> Rollout


How long do TiVo rollouts usually take? When I had Verizon FiOS their rollouts took as long as 6 weeks to get to everyone .


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

compnurd said:


> It was only pushed to the first person 5 days ago. Seems perfectly normal Rollout


What seems odd is that this more significant update seems to be competing with RC8.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Adam C. said:


> How long do TiVo rollouts usually take? When I had Verizon FiOS their rollouts took as long as 6 weeks to get to everyone .


Usually 2-4 weeks. Directv takes 2-3 months


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

exdishguy said:


> Oh wow...and here I thought my Apple TV just didn't have auto-skip while I was watching HBO on it.


Not sure if zoomed. HBO doesn't have commercials to skip.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Not sure if zoomed. HBO doesn't have commercials to skip.


I'm pretty sure (at least, I hope!) he was just playing along with the joke...


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Not sure if zoomed. HBO doesn't have commercials to skip.


Yes I know. thyname's response was as rhetorical as my post about Apple TV. It was tongue-in-cheek.

I know that HBO doesn't have commercials to skip. But CNN does (e.g. the series "Tricky Dick" for instance about Watergate). AMC does. Stanley Cup Playoffs does. etc. etc. I watched GOT live last night - no auto-skip needed.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> ... Certainly, the cablecos aren't _opposed_ to the Live Guide, or are they?


At least one cable company that distributes TiVos required the Live Guide be disabled. IIRC, it was a support issue...since none of their customers had ever seen such a guide, they didn't want to have to train all their support reps in how to explain it.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

exdishguy said:


> Yes I know. thyname's response was as rhetorical as my post about Apple TV. It was tongue-in-cheek.
> 
> I know that HBO doesn't have commercials to skip. But CNN does (e.g. the series "Tricky Dick" for instance about Watergate). AMC does. Stanley Cup Playoffs does. etc. etc. I watched GOT live last night - no auto-skip needed.


AMC has commercial skip for TWD and several other shows. News and sports are not recorded by large numbers of people, and since Skip can not be added until the program is over, by which time most people interested have already seen it, what would be the point?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Diana Collins said:


> ... what would be the point?


I never record The Weather Channel.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Diana Collins said:


> AMC has commercial skip for TWD and several other shows. News and sports are not recorded by large numbers of people, and since Skip can not be added until the program is over, by which time most people interested have already seen it, what would be the point?


Regarding live sports...I agree. I do watch NFL games when they are nearly done and use 30-skip between plays during the game and for commercials. Works well for me and I find the 30-second skip to be almost perfect at landing right at the next snap. I suppose if I let it record the whole game I might get to enjoy auto-skip.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

IIRC, sports are not coded by TiVo for SKIP


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> IIRC, sports are not coded by TiVo for SKIP


Cool - thanks. I won't waste my time recording a game then. I still quite like my current approach. I don't need the color commentary between plays.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Is there _another_ way to force an update? I tried the "TiVo Service Connection" x 3 and the weakknees code listed here, but no luck. 
Growing impatient


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> Is there _another_ way to force an update? I tried the "TiVo Service Connection" x 3 and the weakknees code listed here, but no luck.
> Growing impatient


No. You can force it to re-load whatever current release is authorized for your box, but until the TiVo mother ship decides that your box SHOULD have an update, you ain't gonna get it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Is there _another_ way to force an update? I tried the "TiVo Service Connection" x 3 and the weakknees code listed here, but no luck.
> Growing impatient


Sorry, I must have missed it. What's the "weakknees code?"


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Sorry, I must have missed it. What's the "weakknees code?"


My guess is they meant Kickstart code (for software download/install), but I expect Goose's comment applies.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Gotcha, thanks. In the meantime, the IFTTT integration for automatic SkipMode on Hydra has been working flawlessly for me, so I'm fine being patient.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Gotcha, thanks. In the meantime, the IFTTT integration for automatic SkipMode on Hydra has been working flawlessly for me, so I'm fine being patient.


I'm not.
Now now now now now!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Fofer said:


> Sorry, I must have missed it. What's the "weakknees code?"


I thought it was this thread, but its in another: 21.9.1.v3


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I'm guessing TiVo did away with their priority page for updates.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> I thought it was this thread, but its in another: 21.9.1.v3


Confirmed; Kickstart code:


myfins1 said:


> Edit: I did attempt to use the 56 Kickstart code as shown on Weaknees.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Maybe tomorrow


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

I received the 21.9.1.v3 update on my Bolt last week and yesterday I received another new update 21.9.1.v5

I do not know what has changed between the two updates, haven't seen anything that changed.

I cannot remember getting 2 big updates in a week before.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rjrsouthwest said:


> I received the 21.9.1.v3 update on my Bolt last week and yesterday I received another new update 21.9.1.v5
> I do not know what has changed between the two updates, haven't seen anything that changed.
> I cannot remember getting 2 big updates in a week before.


I'm not sure why you thought to add "big", but since you're first you can start a new thread should you wish. The web page for software notes is still on 21.8.3.RC4.

I always check the last two lines in System Information for changes. I'm still here:


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

rjrsouthwest said:


> I received the 21.9.1.v3 update on my Bolt last week and yesterday I received another new update 21.9.1.v5
> 
> I do not know what has changed between the two updates, haven't seen anything that changed.
> 
> I cannot remember getting 2 big updates in a week before.


Do you still have auto skip?? 

That actually explains why so few got the first release, they started rolling it out and discover some big issue. Halt the rollout and get fix ready quickly would be what I would expect


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

longrider said:


> Do you still have auto skip??
> 
> That actually explains why so few got the first release, they started rolling it out and discover some big issue. Halt the rollout and get fix ready quickly would be what I would expect


I still have autoskip and haven't found anything different yet.

The update last week took a long time to load and update, the one yesterday also took quite awhile to load and update but not as long as the first so it appears there were changes but not a complete redo. I had not had any problems with the original update so do not know what was fixed.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

When autoskip arrived, did you get some sort of “new features” screen indicating that your TiVo had updated? Or did you just happen to go to settings and see the new feature there?


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

Fofer said:


> When autoskip arrived, did you get some sort of "new features" screen indicating that your TiVo had updated? Or did you just happen to go to settings and see the new feature there?


No, there was no message or notification screen of any kind about the update, I had gone to network settings both times and all that I saw was the restart pending and I did a manual restart that triggered the installation both times.

The first time you use skip it asks you if you want to use manual or auto skip.


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## DBV1 (Jul 13, 2018)

They are sure are taking a long time to roll out the software upgrades. I have a almost one year old Roamio OTA and nothing yet. Come on TIVO get this done!


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

DBV1 said:


> They are sure are taking a long time to roll out the software upgrades. I have a almost one year old Roamio OTA and nothing yet. Come on TIVO get this done!


LOL, it's been what, a few days since we first heard about it? These rollouts can sometimes take a few months.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DBV1 said:


> They are sure are taking a long time to roll out the software upgrades. I have a almost one year old Roamio OTA and nothing yet. Come on TIVO get this done!


Just to be clear, only Hydra/TE4/21.* boxes are being updated.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

Fofer said:


> LOL, it's been what, a few days since we first heard about it? These rollouts can sometimes take a few months.


Over the weekend, David Shoop said "_Our operations group has control... should not be long until we roll new software to 100% of the population_." Of course, that was before they appeared to halt the initial rollout and release yet another software revision.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

yes and in my experience, having been a TiVo user for 19 years now, is that TiVo's definition of "not long" is decidedly different from our definition


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Megamind said:


> Over the weekend, David Shoop said ...


Where? Link?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Hmm I assumed the conversation had moved to the release thread. Guess not.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> Where? Link?


Sorry, meant to link it ... here


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Megamind said:


> Sorry, meant to link it ... here


Thank you. I hit that thread after seeing your post but managed to miss @tiv0_Shoop's reply.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI..:


TonyD79 said:


> Verified today that autoskip only works when watching from one box to another if both have autoskip.


I don't have it myself, so can't test ... but my assumption would have been that both boxes need SkipMode, but the viewing box would need to have AutoSkip -- enabling AutoSkip on a Hydra box streaming from a Premiere. Requiring AutoSkip on both boxes is more limited than expected.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> FYI..:
> ​I don't have it myself, so can't test ... but my assumption would have been that both boxes need SkipMode, but the viewing box would need to have AutoSkip -- enabling AutoSkip on a Hydra box streaming from a Premiere. Requiring AutoSkip on both boxes is more limited than expected.


I updated that post. It turns it off when you start to watch a recording from a box without auto but you can turn it on while watching that recording.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> I updated that post. It turns it off when you start to watch a recording from a box without auto but you can turn it on while watching that recording.





TonyD79 said:


> Add: I take it back. Sort of. It looks like when you play a show on a device that doesn't have autoskip, it turns it off but if you turn it back on while watching, it works.


Sounds like a bug. There's no reason for the feature to be automatically toggled-off.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Sounds like a bug. There's no reason for the feature to be automatically toggled-off.


It may be talking to the other box and getting turned down for something. I can understand it turning off for that show but it actually turns it off in the interface.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I have a Roamio Plus running Hydra, and two Minis, also running Hydra.

When auto comskip arrives officially, will it work on all three devices? Right now the IFTTT auto skipmode only works on the Roamio.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fofer said:


> I have a Roamio Plus running Hydra, and two Minis, also running Hydra.
> 
> When auto comskip arrives officially, will it work on all three devices? Right now the IFTTT auto skipmode only works on the Roamio.


Nobody has reported a mini with the new software yet.


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## Cryptotech (Dec 10, 2013)

TonyD79 said:


> Nobody has reported a mini with the new software yet.


Yesterday I received the update on all three of my boxes: a Bolt, a Roamio, and a Mini.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Cryptotech said:


> Yesterday I received the update on all three of my boxes: a Bolt, a Roamio, and a Mini.


And the mini does autoskip?


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> And the mini does autoskip?


The mini will autoskip if the device it's attached to autoskips.


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## Cryptotech (Dec 10, 2013)

Steve said:


> The mini will autoskip if the device it's attached to autoskips.


Confirmed. There is no setting for autoskip in User Preferences on the Mini, so I assume it uses the setting of the host device, in my case a Bolt.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Cryptotech said:


> Confirmed. There is no setting for autoskip in User Preferences on the Mini, so I assume it uses the setting of the host device, in my case a Bolt.


Thank you.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Cryptotech said:


> Confirmed. There is no setting for autoskip in User Preferences on the Mini, so I assume it uses the setting of the host device, in my case a Bolt.


Good feedback, even if I don't like what it says. This setting should be more readily toggled, and a per device setting.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> Good feedback, even if I don't like what it says. This setting should be more readily toggled, and a per device setting.


I can understand why a per-device setting might be problematic, even if this would clearly be preferable. In the absence of that, +1 for providing an easy way to toggle the setting quickly.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Megamind said:


> I can understand why a per-device setting might be problematic


I'm lacking this insight and would welcome any illumination.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> I'm lacking this insight and would welcome any illumination.


With the new version of AutoSkip, all of the processing is being handled entirely by the DVR, whereas the previous iteration of Skip/Autoskip required external intervention either from the remote or from IFTTT in the form of an emulated remote signal.

Handling the entire AutoSkip process internally within the DVR, rather than relying on an external process or signal, simplifies the software design and enhances the speed of skip execution. Adding in a process to identify and communicate skip among multiple devices does the opposite. It is also possible there is a hardware or software limitation in doing so.

This is all shorthand speculation, of course, and worth far less than my usual $0.02.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

In other words, minis are stupid little boxes.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Megamind said:


> With the new version of AutoSkip, all of the processing is being handled entirely by the DVR, whereas the previous iteration of Skip/Autoskip required external intervention either from the remote or from IFTTT in the form of an emulated remote signal.
> 
> Handling the entire AutoSkip process internally within the DVR, rather than relying on an external process or signal, simplifies the software design and enhances the speed of skip execution. Adding in a process to identify and communicate skip among multiple devices does the opposite. It is also possible there is a hardware or software limitation in doing so.


This doesn't explain why a per-device AutoSkip setting would be problematic.

Just as a Mini is currently capable of SkipMode, I don't see why a Mini couldn't be programmed for AutoSkip; and I doubt that the host DVR plays any part in AutoSkip for a Mini aside from determining the software version on the Mini and whether AutoSkip is enabled, the latter unnecessarily. (If interaction with the host DVR is required for AutoSkip to work, that's another demerit for the implementation.)

As for a hardware or software limitation, that a Mini is capable of AutoSkip so long as the setting is enabled on the host DVR indicates that there is no limitation, just a software design choice for where/how the setting is enabled.

My personal uneducated opinion is that it was a rushed feature to get ahead of competitors enabling the same, and the global preferences setting was the easiest implementation. I can't conceive that it wouldn't work better per device and allowing toggling via long-press of the D or SKIP buttons.

Oh, well, best to just be grateful they've enabled it and enjoy it while it lasts.


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## Cryptotech (Dec 10, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> Oh, well, best to just be grateful they've enabled it and enjoy it while it lasts.


+1


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> This doesn't explain why a per-device AutoSkip setting would be problematic.


It does, although to be more accurate I would say it explains why it _might_ be problematic.

I had originally drafted a much longer, far more technical explanation based on a previous project I authored, but decided even I wouldn't want to read it, especially since it was still mostly speculative on my part. But my previous post summarizes it well enough and I have no desire to belabor the points I've already made.



krkaufman said:


> My personal uneducated opinion is that it was a rushed feature to get ahead of competitors enabling the same, and the global preferences setting was the easiest implementation.


Given TiVo's history, I won't argue that this is also a possibility.



krkaufman said:


> Oh, well, best to just be grateful they've enabled it and enjoy it while it lasts.


Agreed.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TiVo rushed something? When has that ever occurred? Seriously, autoskip looks like a progression to me. First skip. Then the externally aided autoskip. Now skip.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

TonyD79 said:


> TiVo rushed something? When has that ever occurred? Seriously, autoskip looks like a progression to me. First skip. Then the externally aided autoskip. Now skip.


Point taken.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

Yea got the auto skip update last night. Thanks to the TiVo bunny.


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

I like this version of autoskip way better. Sometimes its so quick I don't even realize there had been a commercial. You also can now rewind a bit or hit replay if there was a preview or commercial you wanted to see. Before the tone would keep going off making it re autoskip over and over.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Megamind said:


> With the new version of AutoSkip, all of the processing is being handled entirely by the DVR, whereas the previous iteration of Skip/Autoskip required external intervention either from the remote or from IFTTT in the form of an emulated remote signal.


Don't see where the mini would have to do much extra work, other than set a skip/noskip flag on the host DVR.

I don't remember IFTTT performance. Was the lag more than 1/2 second? If not, it's possible they're still using some form of IFTTT.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Noelmel said:


> You also can now rewind a bit or hit replay if there was a preview or commercial you wanted to see. Before the tone would keep going off making it re autoskip over and over.


That is a good observation. I noticed it, but it didn't sink in until now how helpful that might be.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

I tested the rewind function and if you rewind and stop in the commercial block you can play the commercials. However if you rewind to before the commercial block it will autoskip again.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

longrider said:


> I tested the rewind function and if you rewind and stop in the commercial block you can play the commercials. However if you rewind to before the commercial block it will autoskip again.


Yes. I would expect that. Also, if you FF into the commercial real, it will override the autoskip for that break. I think you can pause just as the skip starts and it reverts to manual skip for that break. I haven't fully played with that. And, of course, you can still manually skip if you don't want to wait for the break point. Like skipping over the upcoming blather before commercials on the Voice.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Steve said:


> Don't see where the mini would have to do much extra work, other than set a skip/noskip flag on the host DVR.


I don't see why this would even be necessary. Minis already had SkipMode and so could just autonomously AutoSkip instead of waiting for a remote control press. The host DVR wouldn't have a role beyond the My Shows listing presented to the Mini, and the UI/OS version running on the Mini. (The Mini has to be running AutoSkip-able TE4, and all Mini-streamable content would be coming from SkipMode-enabled DVRs ... Premieres or later, whether running TE4 or TE3.)

I'll be interested to test AutoSkip on a Mini for content streaming from a TE3 Premiere or later DVR. (Requiring at least 2 DVRs, the host DVR running latest TE4 and another DVR, Premiere or later, running TE3.)


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## frischa (Oct 15, 2018)

longrider said:


> The legal issue is the whole reason i thought TiVo did the IFTTT applet. As TiVo already had SkipMode implementing Auto Skip would be trivial. But by requiring the user to set it up with an external service it keeps TiVo at arms length from the automatic part


Clearly, they were concerned with lawsuits. The legal argument against commercial skip is not great. Also, the financial position of Tivo today might be better than that of ReplayTV in 2000


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

frischa said:


> Clearly, they were concerned with lawsuits. The legal argument against commercial skip is not great. Also, the financial position of Tivo today might be better than that of ReplayTV in 2000


The legal argument against autoskip is non-existent. TiVo is not a program provider and they are not altering the program data itself. I am sure it was a technical issue in phasing autoskip in. The "external" solution was provided by TiVo so that would not provide legal cover.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> I am sure it was a technical issue in phasing autoskip in.


So you've communicated with someone in the decision-making process and they made this statement to you?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> The legal argument against autoskip is non-existent. TiVo is not a program provider and they are not altering the program data itself. I am sure it was a technical issue in phasing autoskip in. *The "external" solution was provided by TiVo so that would not provide legal cover.*


Are you referring to IFTTT? TiVo did not provide that, although TiVo added "hooks" to make it workable with the user's system. The user him/herself needed to "provide" IFTTT and initiate it, potentially all the difference under the law.

The legality or not of autoskip need not have been the only issue--the simple possibility/threat of a lawsuit could be a factor. IMHO, the "delay" with TiVo (as vs. TiVo-IFTTT) autoskip hitting TiVo was a combination of the above, and the ultimate emergence of it hastened by the actions of the competition.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> So you've communicated with someone in the decision-making process and they made this statement to you?


No but they built up to this. That is not indicative of anyone worried about lawsuits. And having to have a user push a button versus auto is complete nonsense as a differentiator legally.

I've said it before. Anyone can file a suit but there hasn't been any precedent that would say TiVo would lose a suit.

And you have no issue with someone saying "clearly" they were worried about lawsuits??????


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Are you referring to IFTTT? TiVo did not provide that, although TiVo added "hooks" to make it workable with the user's system. The user him/herself needed to "provide" IFTTT and initiate it, potentially all the difference under the law.
> 
> The legality or not of autoskip need not have been the only issue--the simple possibility/threat of a lawsuit could be a factor. IMHO, the "delay" with TiVo (as vs. TiVo-IFTTT) autoskip hitting TiVo was a combination of the above, and the ultimate emergence of it hastened by the actions of the competition.


More nonsense. Hastened by what? Sure. TiVo just slammed out some code in a week. It doesn't work that way.

There is no way I would start a skip and make it auto right away until I test out the concept and build the infrastructure needed. That is what the push D looked like to me. Getting everything in place. Then IFTTT was the next logical step. Nah, they rushed something out in a week.

And if you wind up in court, try to explain that TiVo provided specific hooks for the IFTTT solution and pushed it on various websites then claim they didn't provide it. Sure.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> More nonsense.* Hastened by what? Sure. TiVo just slammed out some code in a week. It doesn't work that way.


There's a difference between having something in-house and being developed and perhaps being on the fence about it (for legal and/or commercial reasons), and actually going forward with it. Competition can change the analysis and weighing.


> There is no way I would start a skip and make it auto right away until I test out the concept and build the infrastructure needed. That is what the push D looked like to me. Getting everything in place. Then IFTTT was the next logical step. Nah, they rushed something out in a week.


IFTTT as a _logical_ step, where TiVo has no control over it and that part of the process? I have a hard time being convinced by that (although, I still can see it).

More logical to me: TiVo knew what had happened to Replay TV and introduced the intermediary step, whether it be via IFTTT or the user manually pressing the "D" button, to try to avoid that issue.


> And if you wind up in court, try to explain that TiVo provided specific hooks for the IFTTT solution and pushed it on various websites then claim they didn't provide it. Sure.


Yes, that's an argument for the plaintiff. But patent and other legal issues often can turn on far less, to the level of a comma or not.

If I was running the TiVo division, I would have been very wary about the autoskip feature, with the demise of Replay TV as my guide. (Imagine, after being sued by ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox, trying to explain matters to the head of TiVo and/or its Board, or in a shareholder lawsuit: "And so, you went ahead even knowing what had happened to Replay TV earlier?") Whether Replay TV had a legal right or not, it was sued, and by the big guys, and it's no longer here.

* No need for that in an honest discussion, right?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Are you referring to IFTTT? TiVo did not provide that, although TiVo added "hooks" to make it workable with the user's system. The user him/herself needed to "provide" IFTTT and initiate it, potentially all the difference under the law.


TiVo supplied a default IFTTT AutoSkip applet, "Automatically trigger SkipMode."






​
... which depended on the "Skip segment detected" trigger, created by TiVo, plus specific changes to the TiVo OS.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> And having to have a user push a button versus auto is complete nonsense as a differentiator legally.


Then it was nonsense that ReplayTV was allowed to retain a user-triggered commercial skip function (Skip|Nav) when they were forced by lawsuits to discontinue their automatic commercial skip feature (Commercial Advance).

The hassles the TiVo development team went through trying to get IFTTT AugoSkip working, and never fully succeeding, is a goodbye indicator that built-in AutoSkip wan't part of the original plan.



TonyD79 said:


> And you have no issue with someone saying "clearly" they were worried about lawsuits??????


No, because I dimly recall lawsuits being part of the early IFTTT-AutoSkip discussion. (And don't care enough to research it.)


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Then IFTTT was the next logical step.


The only way this makes sense is if the R&D team needed to leverage the IFTTT approach to build customer noise around the issue, to get somebody higher-up to sign-off on doing the built-in solution. All the development time to build IFTTT AutoSkip into the OS makes zero sense given how much easier it would be to just do the built-in.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Hmmm who cares why or how. The TiVo gods were kind to us. Just don’t fly to near the sun.....


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> So you've communicated with someone in the decision-making process and they made this statement to you?


The courts have ruled that auto skipping commercials is legal which is why Dish once again has autohop.

Judge Rules That Dish's Ad-Skipping Don't Violate Copyright


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

CloudAtlas said:


> The courts have ruled that auto skipping commercials is legal which is why Dish once again has autohop.
> 
> Judge Rules That Dish's Ad-Skipping Don't Violate Copyright


Thanks for that reference. Although it's only one judge's ruling, one wonders, then, why TiVo and others waited so long in implementing the feature. Still a fear of litigation?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CloudAtlas said:


> The courts have ruled that auto skipping commercials is legal which is why Dish once again has autohop.
> 
> Judge Rules That Dish's Ad-Skipping Don't Violate Copyright


That's from 4+ years ago. When did Dish start bringing AutoHop back? And is it available immediately or are there still network-specific delays in availability?

"_While we are still disappointed that court felt that PrimeTime Anytime and AutoHop do not violate our copyrights or contract, Dish has been largely disabling AutoHop anyway," the Fox spokesman said._​


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## frischa (Oct 15, 2018)

krkaufman said:


> The only way this makes sense is if the R&D team needed to leverage the IFTTT approach to build customer noise around the issue, to get somebody higher-up to sign-off on doing the built-in solution. All the development time to build IFTTT AutoSkip into the OS makes zero sense given how much easier it would be to just do the built-in.


IFTTT was clearly designed around case law that permits actions taken by the end user as fair use, but features built into the system as violating various copyrights. This is a fair reading of the case law, from Betamax to the Cablevision cloud DVR case. Fair use revolves around intent of the actor and the basis on which they are making their copies or modifications. As the consumer has paid for the content, they have a basic right to move it around and use it within reasonable limits. A device manufacturer does not have the right to implement features that mess with copyrighted material for the purpose of selling a new box. It is hard for something to be fair use when it is done strictly for profit. Saying that their fear of lawsuits would not be real is at odds with the record, which is that networks always sue to prevent these sorts of devices. I think autoskip is legally permissible as it remains a user implemented feature that does not change content, but I can see the fear of the cost of lawsuits. The IFTTT implementation never made much sense for a feature that was obviously easier to implement on the box.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

krkaufman said:


> That's from 4+ years ago. When did Dish start bringing AutoHop back? And is it available immediately or are there still network-specific delays in availability?
> 
> "_While we are still disappointed that court felt that PrimeTime Anytime and AutoHop do not violate our copyrights or contract, Dish has been largely disabling AutoHop anyway," the Fox spokesman said._​


The delays vary. Some are right away and some programs are a week


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Automatic Skip works nicely. Here's how to kill it:
TE4 and TE3 boxes networked. Set Skip mode to Automatic. Now, on the TE4 box, navigate through Devices to a program on the TE3 box that has SM. If you decide to hit Play, the old "Hit D..." message displays and the User Preference on the TE4 box is set to Manual. If you set it back to Automatic and attempt to play a program on the TE3 box that does not have SM, the setting does not revert to manual. So, in summary, Automatic only works on a TE4 box with a program on a TE4 box. Neat. Of course, if you copy the program made on a TE3 box to a TE4 box (Online) then Automatic is happy.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Automatic Skip works nicely. Here's how to kill it:
> TE4 and TE3 boxes networked. Set Skip mode to Automatic. Now, on the TE4 box, navigate through Devices to a program on the TE3 box that has SM. If you decide to hit Play, the old "Hit D..." message displays and the User Preference on the TE4 box is set to Manual. If you set it back to Automatic and attempt to play a program on the TE3 box that does not have SM, the setting does not revert to manual. So, in summary, Automatic only works on a TE4 box with a program on a TE4 box. Neat. Of course, if you copy the program made on a TE3 box to a TE4 box (Online) then Automatic is happy.


Which is an extension of what I found that both boxes have to have autoskip.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Automatic Skip works nicely. Here's how to kill it:
> TE4 and TE3 boxes networked. Set Skip mode to Automatic. Now, on the TE4 box, navigate through Devices to a program on the TE3 box that has SM. If you decide to hit Play, the old "Hit D..." message displays and the User Preference on the TE4 box is set to Manual. If you set it back to Automatic and attempt to play a program on the TE3 box that does not have SM, the setting does not revert to manual. So, in summary, Automatic only works on a TE4 box with a program on a TE4 box. Neat. Of course, if you copy the program made on a TE3 box to a TE4 box (Online) then Automatic is happy.


You used the generic term "boxes" in your problem description. Is the behavior the same whether the receiving box is a DVR or Mini?


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

found a bug in the hydra update on bolt white 1GB at least the black color background revert back to blue just in the video window options everything else stays black.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> You used the generic term "boxes" in your problem description. Is the behavior the same whether the receiving box is a DVR or Mini?


Just checked the Mini and I'll echo Tony's observation. However, the host's setting is not set to manual.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> found a bug in the hydra update on bolt white 1GB at least the black color background revert back to blue just in the video window options everything else stays black.


I would post that here: 21.9.1.v3

I have observed that the video window does not respond to the Slow button as earlier releases. If I hit Slow in a menu, the window should go away. It seems to wait until that space is needed before going away.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

I received 21.9.1.v5 on 2 Bolts and 3 Mini's. Auto-skipping works really well on the Bolts. The Mini's are not auto-skipping, even when their host Bolts have auto-skip enabled. So is the consensus that the Mini's do not get the auto-skip functionality in this release?

Edit: Issue corrected with a Mini and Bolt restart.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Fofer said:


> I have a Roamio Plus running Hydra, and two Minis, also running Hydra.
> 
> When auto comskip arrives officially, will it work on all three devices? Right now the IFTTT auto skipmode only works on the Roamio.


Following up on my own question. I now have auto comskip on my Roamio Plus, running Hydra 21.9.1v5. I deactivated the IFTTT recipe, and tested out a few shows with "SkipMode" set to Automatic under User Prefererences. It seems to be working well. Very happy about it.

I also have two Minis also running Hydra, the same version number. Those don't have the any setting displayed for "SkipMode" (under User Preferences) but I can confirm that it is, in fact, working on those two TiVo Minis. I would have expected them to have their own distinct preference for this feature. Because right now it's all or nothing, and if I do want to turn it off, for example, on the TiVo Mini in the bedroom, I have to go to the TiVo Roamio in the living room first in order to disable it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Blakeintosh said:


> I received 21.9.1.v5 on 2 Bolts and 3 Mini's. Auto-skipping works really well on the Bolts. The Mini's are not auto-skipping, even when their Host Bolts have auto-skip enabled. So is the consensus that the Mini's do not get the auto-skip functionality in this release?


This is not my experience. As mentioned above, it's working on my host Roamio Plus (running Hydra 21.9.1v5) as well as my two regular Mini's (running the same version.) On the Minis I don't even have control of it (there's no front facing setting for it) but it's enabled because I have it enabled on my Roamio. I've tested with a few comskippable recordings and it just works. Same as it does on the Roamio.

The only way I can see to disable it for all three devices, is on the Roamio itself.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

At least TiVo is still consistent. (in being random).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So does this auto skip work on a TiVo Mini Vox?


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> So does this auto skip work on a TiVo Mini Vox?


It does here, if the host device has it enabled.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

Blakeintosh said:


> I received 21.9.1.v5 on 2 Bolts and 3 Mini's. Auto-skipping works really well on the Bolts. The Mini's are not auto-skipping, even when their host Bolts have auto-skip enabled. So is the consensus that the Mini's do not get the auto-skip functionality in this release?


I stand corrected from my original post. I restarted both the Bolt and the Mini and now the Mini auto-skips, based on the host setting, like others have seen.

It is strange that the Mini wouldn't get a menu option on whether or not to Auto-Skip. Perhaps it will in a future release.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Blakeintosh said:


> I stand corrected from my original post. I restarted both the Bolt and the Mini and now the Mini auto-skips, based on the host setting, like others have seen.
> 
> It is strange that the Mini wouldn't get a menu option on whether or not to Auto-Skip. Perhaps it will in a future release.


Not sure why it would.. It gets its instructions from the host


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Blakeintosh said:


> It is strange that the Mini wouldn't get a menu option on whether or not to Auto-Skip. Perhaps it will in a future release.


Not if TiVo doesn't hear that a per device setting is desired by their customers.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Not sure why it would.. It gets its instructions from the host


How TiVo has structured Mini configuration is a separate issue from how this feature (and many others) should be implemented.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

krkaufman said:


> How TiVo has structured Mini configuration is a separate issue from how this feature (and many others) should be implemented.


Common sense options, should always be implemented without the end user Having to request it. And yes other features may not occur to TiVo until a real world person suggests it to them. But like most things TiVo development team may have to be hit between the eyes with the realization of good ideas and dragged kicking and screaming into fully embracing those ideas.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

A power cycle of my Mini Vox made no difference. I'll wait for the new software.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JACKASTOR said:


> Common sense options, should always be implemented without the end user Having to request it. And yes other features may not occur to TiVo until a real world person suggests it to them. But like most things TiVo development team may have to be hit between the eyes with the realization of good ideas and dragged kicking and screaming into fully embracing those ideas.


Well said.

Hopefully they can imagine a typical scenario. A large house with many people. Adults and kids. Roamio Pro serving as the host, with 8 TiVo Minis, installed on various TV's around the house. All running Hydra. Everyone's happy.

Then SkipMode is enabled on the Roamio Pro, because mom doesn't like commercials, which now means, it's enabled on all of the TV's around the house. Even in the rooms of people who appreciate the timed pee breaks that commercials provide, or maybe just like watching commercials? And the only way for those people to turn SkipMode off, is to go to the Roamio, and turn it off there, which turns it off for everyone else, even mom. Even though the setting for this is under "User Preferences" and not "Whole Home Preferences."

I have to believe this is just a temporary thing, as this feature is new, and eventually the Mini's will get their own User Preference for this too. It only makes sense that they would... right?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Maybe just hit Pause, then take a break? It's still a big yellow button.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

It's not _timed_ though.

And some people _like_ the commercials. 

My take here is that SkipMode should be an actual "user preference" in a multi-TiVo household. Whether or not that ever comes to pass, I dunno and don't really care enough to even debate it. At the very least I would expect some way for a user to toggle it off (temporarily or otherwise) because if the *only* way a Mini user can ever turn it off is to go to the Bolt or Roamio and turn it off there, and then therefore, turn it on for everybody, that practically feels like a design oversight to me.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> That's from 4+ years ago. When did Dish start bringing AutoHop back? And is it available immediately or are there still network-specific delays in availability?
> 
> "_While we are still disappointed that [*the* *U.S. Federal Court ruled] that PrimeTime Anytime and AutoHop do not violate our copyrights or contract*, Dish has been largely disabling AutoHop anyway," the Fox spokesman said._​





compnurd said:


> The delays vary. Some are right away and some programs are a week


Fox Broadcasting Co. v. Dish Network, LLC

Since the networks (Fox, ABC, CBS,NBC,et al.) do not own copyrights on the commercials Dish (or TiVO or anyone else) is free to automate commercial skip. Both TiVO and Dish requires the user to *manually* turn on this automated feature.

Unfortunately for Dish, unlike TiVO, they must periodically renew carriage agreements with the networks. Guess what the networks tell Dish at renewal time?  Sure Dish is legally free to skip commercials and they are legally free to not renew Dish's carriage agreements!

Dish and the individual networks come to a legal agreement with Dish to delay by days before auto skip kicks in. The networks do not have this type of leverage over TiVO!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo made me happy.
SkipMode got me addicted.
Automatic SM may send me to rehab if I lose it.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

Name me one household of adults and kids that are happy with anything like TV watching habits! Skip non skip. Find me a bunch of kids who are happy today about the same things they were happy about yesterday


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ManeJon said:


> Name me one household of adults and kids that are happy with anything like TV watching habits! Skip non skip. Find me a bunch of kids who are happy today about the same things they were happy about yesterday


I agree with your post. However, this is not a social studies forum. People here are not looking to make their friends, neighbors or whole family happy. They are just looking for ways to keep themselves (and sometimes their partners) happy since they (like me) enjoy television as a hobby. I was once told you don't need to justify a hobby. Things like camping, hunting, fishing, etc. are great. Even TiVo has said we (TCF) are not their demo or target audience. We're just a big ass feedback loop for TiVo.  Automatic SM is just more crack. Viewing habits are just one more form of diversity.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> We're just a big ass feedback loop for TiVo.


Have to disagree, this TiVo Community Forum is far from being TiVo sock-puppets. \ (•◡•) /


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Joe3 said:


> Have to disagree, this TiVo Community Forum is far from being TiVo sock-puppets. \ (•◡•) /


I know. I just wish we were treated better. 

I've posted before: We don't need TiVo support for technical support. But some corporate help would be great.

Like: when is the Mini WiFi adapter going to ship? Things like that.


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## NickTheGreat (Aug 31, 2015)

I love SM and am excited for Auto SM.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> I know. I just wish we were treated better.
> 
> I've posted before: We don't need TiVo support for technical support. But some corporate help would be great.
> 
> Like: when is the Mini WiFi adapter going to ship? Things like that.


Sometimes it may be better not knowing. 

@TiVo_Ted has been missed.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> Sometimes it may be better not knowing.
> @TiVo_Ted has been missed.


He was on the forum today. He visits frequently. I feel knowing is better. When Sony screwed me with the DHG, I had months to research alternatives. If TiVo is going to dump retail, I would like to have the time to research alternatives, no matter how inferior. People (viewing habits) vary greatly if TCF is any indicator.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> He was on the forum today. He visits frequently.


But @TiVo_Ted's last post was a month-and-a-half ago. Dialoging with him is missed. 


> If TiVo is going to dump retail, I would like to have the time to research alternatives, no matter how inferior.


<he ducks for cover> But if you have Lifetime, TiVo can never stop service during the lifetime of your box. </he ducks for cover>


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> But @TiVo_Ted's last post was a month-and-a-half ago. Dialoging with him is missed.
> <he ducks for cover> But if you have Lifetime, TiVo can never stop service during the lifetime of your box. </he ducks for cover>


Sure. Like Rovi said for TVGOS.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Mikeguy said:


> <he ducks for cover> But if you have Lifetime, TiVo can never stop service during the lifetime of your box. </he ducks for cover>


The folks still using Moxi are going to understand the definition of 'Lifetime' on May 24th.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

JoeKustra said:


> He was on the forum today. He visits frequently. I feel knowing is better. When Sony screwed me with the DHG, I had months to research alternatives. If TiVo is going to dump retail, I would like to have the time to research alternatives, no matter how inferior. People (viewing habits) vary greatly if TCF is any indicator.


Tivo isnt dumping retail. Especially with Arris making the hardware now.. Sure they may pull out of Best Buy at some point but they could support the retail community fine through Amazon and direct from them


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

eherberg said:


> The folks still using Moxi are going to understand the definition of 'Lifetime' on May 24th.


Hmmm, produced by, er, Arris Group . . . .


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Just a silly question for everyone, have you found it a little odd getting used to the autoskip? Several times i've found myself picking up the vox remote and hitting skip causing it to skip 2 commercial breaks and a segment of my show. Force of habit of having to press D/Skip the last two years i guess!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tim_m said:


> Just a silly question for everyone, have you found it a little odd getting used to the autoskip? Several times i've found myself picking up the vox remote and hitting skip causing it to skip 2 commercial breaks and a segment of my show. Force of habit of having to press D/Skip the last two years i guess!


That's what I was afraid of (I'm definitely a creature of habit), but for whatever reason it hasn't affected me a bit. The first time I watched an Auto-Skip show I put the remote out of reach...and then never tried to grab it once.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's what I was afraid of (I'm definitely a creature of habit), but for whatever reason it hasn't affected me a bit. The first time I watched an Auto-Skip show I put the remote out of reach...and then never tried to grab it once.


Good idea, i may have to try that until i no longer feel the urge to grab it every commercial break.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

tim_m said:


> Just a silly question for everyone, have you found it a little odd getting used to the autoskip? Several times i've found myself picking up the vox remote and hitting skip causing it to skip 2 commercial breaks and a segment of my show. Force of habit of having to press D/Skip the last two years i guess!


My arm still twitches when the screen goes dark on Netflix and Hulu, even though there aren't any commercials to skip.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tim_m said:


> Just a silly question for everyone, have you found it a little odd getting used to the autoskip? Several times i've found myself picking up the vox remote and hitting skip causing it to skip 2 commercial breaks and a segment of my show. Force of habit of having to press D/Skip the last two years i guess!


Yes and no. Since I watch some shows on Hulu without commercials, not as much as when I started doing that. If it is on Hulu and doesn't have skip, I watch it there. I sort of broke the habit of reaching for the remote that way.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TonyD79 said:


> Yes and no. Since I watch some shows on Hulu without commercials, not as much as when I started doing that. If it is on Hulu and doesn't have skip, I watch it there. I sort of broke the habit of reaching for the remote that way.


Commercials are such a pet peeve of mine that I just recently switched to the Hulu ad-free plan. Their commercials were driving me nuts because they repeat the same ones over and over, and the commercials are often inserted at unnatural breaks, sometimes right in the middle of a scene.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Been using auto-skip all day. I wish it displayed the play bar. I find myself hitting the Play button, just to be sure I know where or when I am watching.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Been using auto-skip all day. I wish it displayed the play bar. I find myself hitting the Play button, just to be sure I know where or when I am watching.


No thank you.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Adam C. said:


> Their commercials were driving me nuts because they repeat the same ones over and over


This one drives me up a wall. I could understand repeating commercials over and over when streaming was new and they hadn't figured out all the contracts and whatnot and not that many advertisers were fully onboard, but this is 2019. Why is this still a problem? Seeing the same commercial a dozen times in a row causes me to start to actively hate whatever product or service is being advertised.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> No thank you.


Agreed.


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## johnfasc (Dec 24, 2014)

So just wondering what's the next step for commercial buying companies. They stop buying because no one is watching them, means what for local TV??? Could this auto skip thing backfire?


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

Just upgraded to Hydra on two Bolts. How do I enable auto skip. Not seeing it in settings. 21.8.3.RC4-USC-11-849


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dnorth12 said:


> Just upgraded to Hydra on two Bolts. How do I enable auto skip. Not seeing it in settings. 21.8.3.RC4-USC-11-849


I think it's only in a pre-release software that only some users have gotten. I don't think it's rolled out to all units yet.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> Just upgraded to Hydra on two Bolts. How do I enable auto skip. Not seeing it in settings. 21.8.3.RC4-USC-11-849


Answered in your thread...

Where can I find info on the current version of the software and its version #?


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## Cheezmo (Apr 26, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I think it's only in a pre-release software that only some users have gotten. I don't think it's rolled out to all units yet.


Not "pre-release", just being released slowly.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

One slightly odd observation...sometimes, when I'm starting a show it will automatically skip ahead to the beginning of the show even if it's just a few/couple seconds. Other times it won't, even if there's a good minute or two until the actual show starts.

(I'm talking about skipping past commercials, promos, the end of the previous show's credits, etc., that might show up at the beginning of a recording.)

I haven't noticed a pattern. I guess maybe some skip-monkeys mark the beginning of a show and some don't bother..?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Yeah, there doesn’t seem to be a pattern to it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I've see this, and also a very few missed skips at the very end of a show.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Tony_T said:


> I've see this, and also a very few missed skips at the very end of a show.


Every one of mine that misses at the end is a cbs show.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Seems like they could use a skip mark at the conclusion of shows, after all credits, so that recordings with post-padding can auto-skip to the end, and the next video in the playlist.


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