# Tivo sends me to collections in 60 days



## rmerikle (Aug 4, 2004)

WOW I have been a loyal customer from the very very start. Long story short I got the most recent Tivo when the HD version came out and signed up for a 3 year contract. Well I ended that contract about five months ago and have been paying monthly since. December I decided the monthly contract thing was to expense and canceled service. I paid Dec 4th which should have taken me through Jan 4th. Well in Feb I get a letter dated Feb 15th saying I owe Tivo $14 bucks or they are going to send me to collections. Then beginning of March I get a letter from Transworld Systems Collections agency saying "Unless you, within 30 days after receipt of this notice, notify this office that you dispute the validity of this debt, or any portion thereof, TSI will assume this debt to valid."  What the heck happened to innocent until proven guilty? 

I called the customer service and the guy was worthless. Even went as far as saying he could not even issue a credit on a closed account if he wanted to. Basically he stated that since my Tivo was still connecting to the service they would take that as I sign I wanted service and therefore expect me to pay for that service. 

 Flamming mad  I went ahead and paid the bill because I don't want my credit ruined over $14. I am currently on a special with Comcast for six months with thier DVR. I was already looking at buying a liftetime Tivo because the Comcast DVR is such crap. Not anymore. I will go without TV period before I give Tivo any money. And I am no longer going to be the proud Tivo spokesperson I once was. Your loss Tivo. 

So I went from a good paying customer for I am guessing 10+ years to a collections account in about 60 days? Really? 

:down: Good Bye Tivo :down:


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## tombonneau (Mar 26, 2009)

Why didn't you call them to inquire about the $14 as soon as you got that bill? Probably would have saved yourself a lot of headache.

I'm not a TiVo booster, but they are a business. Their accounting department is following a protocol same as every other business in America. No more, no less. Doesn't matter if you are a customer for 10 months or 10 years; their process isn't going to make judgment calls.

You can dislike the company for lots of other reasons, but I wouldn't get bent out of shape and swear them off for life because they send 60-day delinquent accounts to collections.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rmerikle said:


> Basically he stated that since my Tivo was still connecting to the service they would take that as I sign I wanted service and therefore expect me to pay for that service.


so why was it still connecting to the service after you canceled it? Kind of blows your whole rant out of the water.

Plus it is not one month from date of payment but a monthly bill for each month. Somewhere on the account page it would show effective service dates.


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## rmerikle (Aug 4, 2004)

Maybe I was not clear. I cancelled. Thought I had cancelled. They kept my account alive for another 30 days without my authorization and justified it by saying my Tivo was still connecting to the service. 

From the first notice I recieved from them Feb 15th until the time I recieced the collection notice was about two weeks. When you consider I live in the typical suburb were I only check mail once or twice a week because my mailbox is not to close to the house I am guessing I got the notice well beyond Feb 15th in my hands. And sorry if I did not put this on top of my priority list since I had already thought the account was canceled. 

From what little research I have done it seems as if Tivo has a habit of this. Way to win over your customers.


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## rmerikle (Aug 4, 2004)

Originally Posted by justapixel 
At the end of of the day, it's the happy moments in life that count, not the big manufactured productions. Being generous with your love and time brings more rewards than you can know.

Well said maybe Tivo should read this post along with others. Especially over a $14 bill.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

rmerikle said:


> I called the customer service and the guy was worthless. Even went as far as saying he could not even issue a credit on a closed account if he wanted to. Basically he stated that since my Tivo was still connecting to the service they would take that as I sign I wanted service and therefore expect me to pay for that service.


I learned after an experience with Verizon to always get the name of the CSR when you terminate service, and some kind of confirmation number. In my case I received collection notices about a year after terminating a cellular contract, and then each time I wrote a letter to the collection agency, it was acknowledged that I didn't owe the money, and 6-12 months later the collection would re-appear under some other junk debt buyer. This lasted for most of a decade and about a half-dozen junk debt buyers, each of which who tried to ruin my credit and each of whom inflated the bill with more fees. I will never buy another Verizon product again in my life.

Anyhow, back on topic... Unfortunately, the collection agencies have a lot of power over you even though the debt is bogus. If you do some research, you can find out the relevant laws and ways to deal with them but it won't prevent endlessly re-selling the debt to new junk debt buyers. Personally, I think you're right in going ahead and paying the damn bill. The lost time dealing with and credit issues arising from any debt less than $1000 or so is probably worth it just to pay off. These people are as close to legal criminals as you can get. It's like getting mugged. Just give em your wallet and move on and never, ever, do business with the company that caused the mess again.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rmerikle said:


> .......I live in the typical suburb were I only check mail once or twice a week because my mailbox is not to close to the house.......


Huh?? You must have a **long** driveway!


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Huh?? You must have a **long** driveway!


I don't check my mail that often either unless I'm expecting something. Most of what is in there is junk and in my neighborhood the mailboxes aren't in front of the house but in a community location at the end of the street that I have to make an extra stop to pick up.

That being said, the OP should have unplugged the tivo and not let it access the tivo service if he had canceled. A $14 bill is kinda silly to send to a collection agent though.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Hey they're selling bonds to fund litigation too. The company is desperate for money whether it's $14 or $14 million at a time, so you need to watch your back. Examples of back watching include, disconnecting the TiVo from the service, recording the phone call and/or getting a CSR name, checking the mailbox daily etc. Yeah, I've got a mailbox out at the intersection too, but I don't think that works as a legal excuse so you have to check it anyway. Sorry.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

If I called to cancel service, and the cancellation was verbally accepted, I'm done. If you screw up, don't cancel, think that I want to resume service, or otherwise try to claim I owe you money, it's not my problem. It's yours. And anything you do to attempt to screw me over to collect it is something that you will resolve completely, and pay dearly for if you fail to do so promptly.

BTW, collection agencies have very little power over you when the debt is invalid. For that matter, they really have no power over you for valid debts either. Though everybody has some power over lemmings, I suppose.

There's no "we have the right to resume billing you and force you to pay us if you let your unit make connection attempts to us" clause, nor would any such behavior ever be acceptable from a consumer rights point of view.

The blame is squarely on TiVo here, not on the consumer.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rmerikle said:


> They kept my account alive for another 30 days without my authorization and justified it by saying my Tivo was still connecting to the service.


was the TiVo still hooked up and connecting to TiVo service?

Did you call the collection agency and tell them you think the charge is bogus?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

rmerikle said:


> WOW I have been a loyal customer from the very very start. Long story short I got the most recent Tivo when the HD version came out and signed up for a 3 year contract. Well I ended that contract about five months ago and have been paying monthly since. December I decided the monthly contract thing was to expense and canceled service. I paid Dec 4th which should have taken me through Jan 4th. Well in Feb I get a letter dated Feb 15th saying I owe Tivo $14 bucks or they are going to send me to collections. Then beginning of March I get a letter from Transworld Systems Collections agency saying "Unless you, within 30 days after receipt of this notice, notify this office that you dispute the validity of this debt, or any portion thereof, TSI will assume this debt to valid."  What the heck happened to innocent until proven guilty?
> 
> I called the customer service and the guy was worthless. Even went as far as saying he could not even issue a credit on a closed account if he wanted to. Basically he stated that since my Tivo was still connecting to the service they would take that as I sign I wanted service and therefore expect me to pay for that service.
> 
> ...


Paying the bill has nothing to do with it ruining your credit. If it went to collections they can report it on your credit report. You should get copies of your credit reports.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

rmerikle said:


> So I went from a good paying customer for I am guessing 10+ years to a collections account in about 60 days? Really? Good Bye Tivo :down:


And don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Well, sort of. You're canceling service, what do you expect?

Now, I agree that using an active device as a sign of continued acceptance is ridiculous. I could leave the country for a while, cancel my service while abroad but not be able to turn off the unit. Should they then take that as a sign I want the box to continue to make contractual decisions for me? Um, no. So I'd certainly be pissed off about that.

Like anything else you pay for, it's important to stay aware of your obligations.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

wkearney99 said:


> And don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Well, sort of. You're canceling service, what do you expect?


I'm guessing he expected them to cancel service instead of continuing to charge him?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jakerock said:


> I'm guessing he expected them to cancel service instead of continuing to charge him?


I have found the facts get clearer in these threads so I am holding out until we get clear answers - if it matters to the OP - he hung in a while here but I expect that his rant was the goal here and there are no other answers for him save to deal with the collection company to dispute the charge if he chooses. Hopefully he has disconnected the TiVo by now


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Lifetime service is so much easier, no cancellations no figuring when you service ends.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

If I plug in an unsubscribed Tivo to use as a cable box, can Tivo activate the service and start billing me?


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

The OP should just be thankful that they sent it to collections for $14 instead of letting the amount grow to something larger before doing so. Back in the early days of AOL, I thought my 'free trial' was canceled. Six months later I got a collections notice for $100.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

dswallow said:


> BTW, collection agencies have very little power over you when the debt is invalid. For that matter, they really have no power over you for valid debts either.


_Legally_ they have little power. As a practical matter they can cause you a fair amount of grief by reselling the debt which effectively starts the process over for you, making you deal with a recurring nuisance until the statute of limitations expires in your state (and sometimes even after that, even though the debt is not enforceable).

They'll verbally threaten you with court action over the phone even though it's illegal for them to do so unless they actually intend to initiate court action (last time I informed one of them with this their response was "See you in court" and a hang-up).

The whole thing is generally a big con run by intimidation. You don't have much legal recourse, as you are the little guy, and for you to initiate legal action over their violations would generally cost too much for you. Hence the intimidation tactics continue.

In my experience they were easily dissuaded by sending a registered return-receipt letter immediately after I received initial communication (be it by mail or phone). A normal letter will not do, it will be 'lost in the mail' or 'never arrive'. For some reason only return-receipt letters actually arrive at the collection agencies. /sarcasm


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

smbaker said:


> In my experience they were easily dissuaded by sending a registered return-receipt letter immediately after I received initial communication (be it by mail or phone). A normal letter will not do, it will be 'lost in the mail' or 'never arrive'. For some reason only return-receipt letters actually arrive at the collection agencies. /sarcasm


I think it would cost around $14 to send such a letter.


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## jfelbab (Jan 18, 2002)

If you cancel the TiVo service why would you not be able continue to use your TiVo box to play previous recordings? When you cancel you are entitled to use the TiVo box as you paid for it. You don't need the TiVo service to playback a saved movie. There is no way that they can say that because you didn't unplut the box that you accepted continuing service. Do the telephone, electric or gas companies work that way?

I'd likely have just trashed those notices as junk mail.

I still get an annual delinquent county tax bill mailed to my address from another state for a parcel of property I've never owned. I've called their county tax commissioner three years in a row to explain that no one by the name on the tax bill lives here or ever lived at this address. They keep sending the bill every year anyway and I just toss it in the trash. Maybe some day they will eventually foreclose on that property and the mailings will end.

Anything that looks like junk or unsolicited mail rarely make it into my house. It goes straight into the trash.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

jfelbab said:


> If you cancel the TiVo service why would you not be able continue to use your TiVo box to play previous recordings? When you cancel you are entitled to use the TiVo box as you paid for it. You don't need the TiVo service to playback a saved movie. There is no way that they can say that because you didn't unplut the box that you accepted continuing service. Do the telephone, electric or gas companies work that way?
> 
> I'd likely have just trashed those notices as junk mail.
> 
> ...


I would be careful with the county bill. They might take it to court. Even if it's ot yours it can cause a lot of damage to your credit report if you don't get it fixed.


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## Hoss28 (Mar 12, 2011)

I would suggest contacting the Better Business Bureau, bbb.org

I worked through the BBB for a different billing dispute and I was put in contact with their Executive Relations team after the BBB submitted the letter. While the resolution wasn't what I hoped, it at least was some resolution. I will never be a TiVo customer again.

FYI - Here's the text of my complaint:

I was offered an upgrade to a TiVo HD from my old TiVo Series 2 in June 2010. I had purchased my Series 2 in April 2005. By using the word upgrade, it was unclear that the old TiVo would continue to be billed for service after purchasing the upgrade and buying an annual plan for the upgrade unit. After 7 months of billing, my credit card number changed and I received a past due notice from TiVo. I was naturally confused and then upset to learn that I had been billed every month for the old TiVo. I had left it plugged in to clear the hard drive, but had not used it on any TV. I sold the unit on eBay in November 2010. After calling TiVo the first time, I was told that my account would go to collection for the $12.95 past due. I was then disconnected. The second call, I spoke to the advanced customer service. Anthony told me the credit would be applied to my account, the old TiVo would be cancelled, and the $12.95 past due would be removed. This was on 1/28/2011. After more warning emails, I called TiVo today, 3/8/2011. The account was not credited and was still listed as past due. They were able to remove the past due amount, but refused to refund the 7 months of deceptively billed service.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfelbab said:


> If you cancel the TiVo service why would you not be able continue to use your TiVo box to play previous recordings? When you cancel you are entitled to use the TiVo box as you paid for it.


yep, when I cancel a box in the past it goes to no service and stays that way. I think there is more to this story then the OP has told us frankly, and with his rant done we likely will not see the OP again anyhow. Maybe he is making that long walk to his mailbox


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Hoss28 said:


> .......... They were able to remove the past due amount, but refused to refund the 7 months of deceptively billed service.


Good thing it was only a $12.95/mo. charge. Wouldn't it be advisable to check your credit card charges more carefully?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I've never heard of TiVo extending canceled service because someone connected. I'm guessing that OP actually either had a past due balance when they made what they thought was their final payment or the cancellation actually fell after the start of the next billing period.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Hoss28 said:


> I was offered an upgrade...


I would have to believe that the upgrade offer included terms and conditions that outlined exactly what would happen to the Series 2 box. I imagine those same terms and conditions will be/have been given to the BBB to prove no wrong doing on TiVo's part. Caveat emptor.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> I would have to believe that the upgrade offer included terms and conditions that outlined exactly what would happen to the Series 2 box. I imagine those same terms and conditions will be/have been given to the BBB to prove no wrong doing on TiVo's part. Caveat emptor.


Any time I talk to them, I patiently deal with them telling me something like 5 times to make sure I had heard the terms correctly.

While I can see the point it would be good for TiVo to be able to credit these kind of fringe cases -- the cases all seem to have the same theme of the person never knowing they were billed even though payments from the person happened and also shock at terms they did not 'know about'.


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## jayn_j (Oct 29, 2010)

This whole thing is automated and the amount doesn't matter.

I once got a letter from DISH threatening collection unless I immediately paid $0.14CR

Yep, they wanted -14 cents or else!


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## jfelbab (Jan 18, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> I would be careful with the county bill. They might take it to court. Even if it's ot yours it can cause a lot of damage to your credit report if you don't get it fixed.


I don't think so as the name on the bill is not mine or anyone I am related to or even know. The tax bill is just being mailed to my address. I've made the attempt, in writing, three times to inform them (the issuing county) of this fact and in my book, it's three strikes and your out.


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