# does tivo think i'm that stupid?



## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

ok, i unsubbed my series 1 tivo, because i'm selling it soon on ebay. i wanted to see what they would charge me if i wanted to resub it. 
does tivo really think i would go for the 1, 2, or 3 year prepay plan and cough up quite a bit of extra money for it? 
see pic:


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

At least they apparently hope you're not very good at math.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Regardless of what TiVo "thinks," fortunately for you you are not that stupid.


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## Redscott (Mar 17, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> Regardless of what TiVo "thinks," fortunately for you you are not that stupid.


The Tivo website is riddled with rushed editing errors.

Tivo might want to upgrade their "Webintrainingmasters"


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Redscott said:


> The Tivo website is riddled with rushed editing errors.
> 
> Tivo might want to upgrade their "Webintrainingmasters"


Why stop there?


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

hmm, lets see. 
multi box new prepay crap plan
-----------------------------------------
$83.40 $155.40 for one year
$166.80 $299.00 for two years
$250.20 $399.00 for three years

yeah...


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

At the full service rate you save less than $2/month if you prepay for 3 years? That's definitely not enough of a discount for me to agree to be locked into TiVo service for 3 years. I'd much rather pay the extra $1.86/mo for the freedom to ditch TiVo without regret if someting better comes along.

I know some of you guys really hate paying monthly fees, but this is a no-brainer for me.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Crrink said:


> ...I know some of you guys really hate paying monthly fees, but this is a no-brainer for me.


Well, since LIFETIME is no longer an option, paying monthly or the rough equivalent is all there is, whether it _is_ actually monthly, or an all at once thing.

This is why something better _will_ no doubt eventually come along.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

Crrink said:


> At the full service rate you save less than $2/month if you prepay for 3 years? That's definitely not enough of a discount for me to agree to be locked into TiVo service for 3 years. I'd much rather pay the extra $1.86/mo for the freedom to ditch TiVo without regret if someting better comes along.
> 
> I know some of you guys really hate paying monthly fees, but this is a no-brainer for me.


1 year of service only = $155.
2 years of service only = $299.
3 years of service only = $399.

$12.95 X 12 = $155.40 ($0.40 discount)
$12.95 X 24 = $310.80 ($11.80 discount)
$12.95 X 36 = $466.20 ($67.20 discount)

Not sure where you got the $1.86 figue.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

xnevergiveinx said:


> hmm, lets see.
> multi box new prepay crap plan
> -----------------------------------------
> $83.40 $155.40 for one year
> ...


You are talking apples and oranges (MSD vs full boat). There is unfortunately no option to prepay for MSD service. Now granted, the option for the three higher prices should probably not be listed on the website for you.



TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Sorry, there's no way to prepay for MSD annually (or longer).
> 
> MSD eligibility has to be verified each month, so there is no prepay option.
> 
> This is covered quite clearly in the summary.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Sirshagg said:


> $12.95 X 36 = $466.20 ($67.20 discount)
> 
> Not sure where you got the $1.86 figue.


Now divide by the number of months to get the $1.86/mo figure.


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> You are talking apples and oranges (MSD vs full boat). There is unfortunately no option to prepay for MSD service. Now granted, the option for the three higher prices should probably not be listed on the website for you.


no no, i'm talking about the options that tivo gives me to resubscribe my series 1. i could either pay the multi box discount each month or pay a hugely inflated prepay option...i'm not sure whyy anyone would choose the prepay option over the multi box (this is assuming that they already have another tivo so they can actually get the multi box discount)

i guess you'd either have to be stupid, not do your homework, or really hate paying a monthly bill to select the prepay option


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Redscott said:


> The Tivo website is riddled with rushed editing errors.


Not all of them are the result of rushing. Their 2006 press release page has said "2005 Press Releases" since they put it up. I know they've been told this by multiple people, but they don't seem to find it significant enough to fix.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> Not all of them are the result of rushing. Their 2006 press release page has said "2005 Press Releases" since they put it up. I know they've been told this by multiple people, but they don't seem to find it significant enough to fix.


It makes perfect sense because the pages for the 2005 Press Releases say "2004 Press Releases."


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

dgh said:


> Now divide by the number of months to get the $1.86/mo figure.


AH! My bad - I didn't see the "/mo"

But even still thats nearly 15% off The full monthly subscription. Definitely not worth it if you can get the MSD if you can't 15% is nothing to laugh at either.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Had TiVo implemented a new marketing plan properly, they could have greatly reduced their marketing costs while maintaining or even increasing subscriber additions.This is the type of purchasing plan TiVo should have come out with instead of the one they actually have:



The following options for 80hr boxes should be available to all TiVo Customers:

1. No Upfront: Rent a box for $15.95/9.95(MSD) per month, with no commitment. The return of the box should end the obligation to pay a monthly fee. Purchase your new/refurb rental box at any time during the first year for $69/39, or $49/39 after the first year, to convert to $12.95/6.95/mo or Term/Lifetime Prepay Plans. Rental boxes may be sent to subscribers in new or refurbed condition.


2. Mixed Upfront: Buy a new box for $69, or a refurbed box for $39, together with the following service plan: $12.95/6.95 per month. 1yr Commitment required.


3. All Upfront: Buy a new box for $69, or a refurbed box for $39, plus the cost of one of the Term/Lifetime Service Plans below:


4. Resubscribe old box: $12.95/6.95 without commitment, or purchase a Term/Lifetime Service Plan below:


Term/Lifetime Service Plans:

1. 1yr Prepay Service for $129/79
2. 2yr Prepay Service for $209/129
3. 3yr Prepay Service for $269/169
4. Lifetime Prepay Service for $299/189

At the end of a 1, 2 or 3 year term, service returns to monthly @ 12.95/6.95 unless a new Prepay Service term is purchased.

A box with a term MSD rate can only be used on an account that has a Qualifying box. An MSD rate box can be upgraded to Qualifying status for $ ????

Box failure:

Any Non-Lifetime box can be exchanged for a refurbed box for a $39 fee. A Lifetime box can be exchanged for a refurbed box for $239/129.


Purchasing Experience:

All Upfront costs (box & service) are paid at time of purchase (via phone or Web.) Credit card is supplied for potential future monthly billing at time of purchase. All boxes are shipped such that service automatically activates with first user connection, or after 30 days. No further customer contact with TiVo needed after initial purchase.

30 Day Money Back Return policy, as always.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

xnevergiveinx said:


> whyy anyone would choose the prepay option over the multi box (this is assuming that they already have another tivo so they can actually get the multi box discount)


So they primary box can go MSD, if it is on monthly service only.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Sirshagg said:


> Definitely not worth it if you can get the MSD if you can't 15% is nothing to laugh at either.


But then again, neither is a 3 year commitment on a box designed 8 years ago which is already surpassed at the hardware level by the average cable DVR. (dual digital tuners, no need for cable box/ir), let alone the series 2 (USB/networking), plus the S3 coming "this year".


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

HDTiVo said:


> It makes perfect sense because the pages for the 2005 Press Releases say "2004 Press Releases."


Touche'. In light of this new evidence, I have no choice but to withdraw my comment.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Sirshagg said:


> AH! My bad - I didn't see the "/mo"
> 
> But even still thats nearly 15% off The full monthly subscription. Definitely not worth it if you can get the MSD if you can't 15% is nothing to laugh at either.


I was only stating my opinion, not some empirical truth. But I'd have to point out that when the 15% discount amounts to $1.86 per month most people who can afford a TiVo would probably find that amount fairly trivial.

I mean, I can save twice that amount if I choose to eat top ramen for lunch one day per month instead of going out to some restaurant and paying $5 for a burger and fries.

And that's not even taking the present value of the money into account - I'm too lazy to do the calculations, but you're probably not saving anything by prepaying for 3 years if you think about it properly.

Anyway, if that's worth it for some people to not have to see a monthly charge on their credit card bill, then good for them, I am glad they have this option. For normal people, however, I think it's very unlikely that this will be an attractive option for anybody but those lacking simple math skills.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

*sigh*


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

I really don't like the way they're going with the stuff on the Buy TiVo portion of the web site. They don't really make it clear that you can buy the hardware and pay $12.95/month. Under the plans they do have, you'll keep paying a higher fee after the end of the term unless you manually change it -- who in the HELL would want to continue paying $19.95/month when they could switch over to $12.95/month. Why shouldn't people automatically roll over into the lower price plan after the end of that pricing term? One of the arguments presented was that these pricing plans would let people who otherwise couldn't afford the up-front costs to get TiVo (we'll set aside the argument that a person who can't afford the $150 or so for the hardware maybe shouldn't be spending another $20/month on monthly fees). You know, if someone can't afford the hardware, you're probably not helping them out by continuing to overcharge them after the end of the subscription term. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some jackass lawyer tried to make the argument in a class-action case that it was discriminating against low-income groups. It's not -- everybody's subject to it, but I'm talking about the type of lawyers who put out commercials every time a drug goes off the market.

I was okay with TiVo getting rid of lifetime, because I understand that it's just not a viable long-term strategy. This thing of stratified pricing _after_ the 1, 2, or 3-year contract is just sketchy, though. I'm really disappointed to see TiVo take a step down this road, because they've previously been such a service-oriented company. This is the kind of stuff credit card companies pull.


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## Troy J B (Sep 27, 2003)

dtreese said:


> Under the plans they do have, you'll keep paying a higher fee after the end of the term unless you manually change it -- who in the HELL would want to continue paying $19.95/month when they could switch over to $12.95/month. Why shouldn't people automatically roll over into the lower price plan after the end of that pricing term?


As was pointed out in another thread, TiVo cannot just make the switch to the $12.95/month rate, as such a switch would require another 1 year commitment
from the customer.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Troy J B said:


> As was pointed out in another thread, TiVo cannot just make the switch to the $12.95/month rate, as such a switch would require another 1 year commitment
> from the customer.


There is no such thing as can't


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I think I already read this thread. page 20 had some real harsh back and forth that just degenerated to name calling by page 30


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Troy J B said:


> As was pointed out in another thread, TiVo cannot just make the switch to the $12.95/month rate, as such a switch would require another 1 year commitment
> from the customer.


I didn't read the post you're referring to - any chance you could give a link? 
I would be very irritated to find out that once the bundle commitment is met TiVo would exact another year commitment out of anybody wishing to switch to the lower fee service only option.

I won't be surprised to learn this is the case, but I will be irritated.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Troy J B said:


> As was pointed out in another thread, TiVo cannot just make the switch to the $12.95/month rate, as such a switch would require another 1 year commitment
> from the customer.


Given that the subsidized hardware would've been paid by that point, no reason Tivo couldn't switch to $12.95/month with NO contract (other than month to month) commitment.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Crrink said:


> I didn't read the post you're referring to - any chance you could give a link?
> I would be very irritated to find out that once the bundle commitment is met TiVo would exact another year commitment out of anybody wishing to switch to the lower fee service only option.
> 
> I won't be surprised to learn this is the case, but I will be irritated.


well sorry to make you irratated but this was a reason TiVoOpsMgr gave in that long thread somewhere as to why you had to call to drop to 12.95 or 6.95. TiVo intended to make you agree to another year comittment to lower the rate.
I agree that since the original obligation was met they should just drop to the correct rate. It would make more sense to pull out the year comittment on a sub that had been stopped for awhile and was being reactivated.

Seems too much like a credit card or cell phone policy to just make money form customers that are not proactive


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Seems too much like a credit card or cell phone policy to just make money form customers that are not proactive


Only because that's exactly what it is.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Crrink said:


> I didn't read the post you're referring to - any chance you could give a link?
> I would be very irritated to find out that once the bundle commitment is met TiVo would exact another year commitment out of anybody wishing to switch to the lower fee service only option.
> 
> I won't be surprised to learn this is the case, but I will be irritated.


A number of people have asked 'why is it harder now to promote TiVo to others?'

Fine print like this is part of the problem. The plan is flawed and needs to be revamped.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

HDTiVo said:


> There is no such thing as can't


Except when lawyers get involved.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> Given that the subsidized hardware would've been paid by that point, no reason Tivo couldn't switch to $12.95/month with NO contract (other than month to month) commitment.


I agree with your argument 100% however Tivo has decided that all new boxes (for more than a year now) must have a 1 year commitment when signing up for service.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

dgh said:


> But then again, neither is a 3 year commitment on a box designed 8 years ago which is already surpassed at the hardware level by the average cable DVR. (dual digital tuners, no need for cable box/ir), let alone the series 2 (USB/networking), plus the S3 coming "this year".


There is no mandatory 3 year commitment on any box based on an 8 year old design. That commitment is only for new boxes, which at best, are a of 2 year old design, which themselves are a redesign of a now 4 year old design. The 8 year old series one design has been completely or mostly dumped for the series two.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

classicsat said:


> There is no mandatory 3 year commitment on any box based on an 8 year old design.


Nor has anyone said or implied such until now.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

classicsat said:


> There is no mandatory 3 year commitment on any box based on an 8 year old design. That commitment is only for new boxes, which at best, are a of 2 year old design, which themselves are a redesign of a now 4 year old design. The 8 year old series one design has been completely or mostly dumped for the series two.


Check the Original Post. He's being given a choice to sign up for three years on his old series 1. Hence the title of this thread. Mandatory? No, no one said that.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well sorry to make you irratated but this was a reason TiVoOpsMgr gave in that long thread somewhere as to why you had to call to drop to 12.95 or 6.95. TiVo intended to make you agree to another year comittment to lower the rate.
> I agree that since the original obligation was met they should just drop to the correct rate. It would make more sense to pull out the year comittment on a sub that had been stopped for awhile and was being reactivated.
> 
> Seems too much like a credit card or cell phone policy to just make money form customers that are not proactive


Wow, that is some serious B.S. I've refrained from joining the people angry at TiVo over these price changes, but forcing people into another year contract to get the service only rate after they've already met the terms of an equipment contract really rankles me.

I'm not going to start predicting the death of TiVo and all that stuff, but this is a much bigger impediment to my buying a S3 than anything TiVo has previously done.
Maybe I'm weird and other people won't be bothered by this - for TiVo's sake, I hope so.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Troy J B said:


> As was pointed out in another thread, TiVo cannot just make the switch to the $12.95/month rate, as such a switch would require another 1 year commitment
> from the customer.


Your all missing one point that is people under contract will get parts service FREE as long as they stay under the original bundled price. I don't know how much that worth but its something. If you call and lower your price you will end up with another 1 year contract and no FREE parts service. Another option is at the end of the original bundled price contract just ask TiVo for a new TiVo and sell your old one on E-Bay.

Les


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Crrink said:


> Wow, that is some serious B.S. I've refrained from joining the people angry at TiVo over these price changes, but forcing people into another year contract to get the service only rate after they've already met the terms of an equipment contract really rankles me.


This is an interesting dynamic. This policy was essentially instituted as much as a year ago - old unsubed boxes had to be resubed w/ min 1 year commitment. Until the recent marketing plan was announced, this went largely unnoticed or unmentioned. Only very recently - prior to 3/8 - did people start posting 'hey, I never knew I made a 1 year commitment!'

My first reaction a couple months ago to one of (the first?) the early mentions in a post was 'this is a huge mistake for TiVo.'


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> Your all missing one point that is people under contract will get parts service FREE as long as they stay under the original bundled price. I don't know how much that worth but its something. If you call and lower your price you will end up with another 1 year contract and no FREE parts service. Another option is at the end of the original bundled price contract just ask TiVo for a new TiVo and sell your old one on E-Bay.
> 
> Les





TiVo New Price Sticky said:


> Q. What happens if my TiVo box breaks during my service commitment?
> 
> A. All TiVo boxes are subject to the TiVo DVR Limited Warranty. Please see the full TiVo DVR Limited Warranty for details (http://www.tivo.com/2.6.1.3.asp). During the term of your commitment, TiVo will extend the length of the parts warranty for the length of your term for TiVo-branded DVRs. If your box breaks, TiVo will replace it for a reasonable fee.


I read TiVo's policy to *include * the one year service only commitment.

And you still have to pay TiVo whatever Labor rates it decides are appropriate.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

HDTiVo said:


> And you still have to pay TiVo whatever Labor rates it decides are appropriate.


It looks like they'll replace it, not fix it. No labor charges.

*BUT,*
We still need to descern what a "reasonable" replacement fee is.

As the subscribers who go for the "no upfront cost" plans could not afford to pay a major "replacement" fee,
_("I definitely could not have been able to do the buy the box first thing... basically because I've never had $140 or so in disposible income")_
... it better be _very_ reasonable. We're talking $30 here, no more.

If the sub could have afforded a big fee, they would not need a "no upfront cost" plan in the first place.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Maybe TiVo could do what my cellphone provider does, tack on an additional "insurance fee" for those who want it. It costs me $3/month, but then I get free repairs or a replacement if they can't repair my phone.



HDTiVo said:


> This is an interesting dynamic. This policy was essentially instituted as much as a year ago - old unsubed boxes had to be resubed w/ min 1 year commitment.


But at that point that was the ONLY sub requirement there was. I think it's reasonable to have expected that if you sign up for 1, 2 or 3 years when you first get a box, that will be the only requirement, and when that is done, you can change the plans, with no additional binding period. That's what people are used to from the cellphone plans. Instead, TiVo says that if you change the plan, you must agree to a minimum of another 12 months commitment. That's just not fair.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Had TiVo implemented a new marketing plan properly, they could have greatly reduced their marketing costs while maintaining or even increasing subscriber additions.This is the type of purchasing plan TiVo should have come out with instead of the one they actually have:
> 
> The following options for 80hr boxes should be available to all TiVo Customers:
> 
> 1. No Upfront: Rent a box for $15.95/9.95(MSD) per month, with no commitment. The return of the box should end the obligation to pay a monthly fee. Purchase your new/refurb rental box at any time during the first year for $69/39, or $49/39 after the first year, to convert to $12.95/6.95/mo or Term/Lifetime Prepay Plans. Rental boxes may be sent to subscribers in new or refurbed condition.


With the possible addition of a commitment if converted from bundle to service only, but the commitment.

Otherwise your price is assuming that the actual DVR cost is 
$69/49/39. You ought to recaculate for at least a $230 DVR cost.

I'd do 19.95/ 3 month commitment, 16.95 for two year.
You can buy out the commitment for the remaining actual cost of the hardware, and go monthly service only.


> 2. Mixed Upfront: Buy a new box for $69, or a refurbed box for $39, together with the following service plan: $12.95/6.95 per month. 1yr Commitment required.


That works, except the box price is too low, or have a similar buyout as above.


> 3. All Upfront: Buy a new box for $69, or a refurbed box for $39, plus the cost of one of the Term/Lifetime Service Plans below:
> 
> 4. Resubscribe old box: $12.95/6.95 without commitment, or purchase a Term/Lifetime Service Plan below:
> 
> ...


All good, except have no lifetime, or prepay options for MSD, unless you have service credit points.



> At the end of a 1, 2 or 3 year term, service returns to monthly @ 12.95/6.95 unless a new Prepay Service term is purchased.
> 
> A box with a term MSD rate can only be used on an account that has a Qualifying box. An MSD rate box can be upgraded to Qualifying status for $ ????


What would happen when the qualifier for a prepaid MSD is sold, or the prepaid MSD box itslef is sold? (maybe you could have MSD prepaid non trasnferrable).



> Box failure:
> 
> Any Non-Lifetime box can be exchanged for a refurbed box for a $39 fee. A Lifetime box can be exchanged for a refurbed box for $239/129.


Too low a fee, IMO.


> Purchasing Experience:
> 
> All Upfront costs (box & service) are paid at time of purchase (via phone or Web.) Credit card is supplied for potential future monthly billing at time of purchase. All boxes are shipped such that service automatically activates with first user connection, or after 30 days. No further customer contact with TiVo needed after initial purchase.
> 
> 30 Day Money Back Return policy, as always.


I'd do a points system. You could prepurchase a number of points, and spend them how you like. Each "level" of service has a value of points which is deducted from the points account each month, points being non transferrable or non refundable.

Edited to fix quote flags


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> This is an interesting dynamic. This policy was essentially instituted as much as a year ago - old unsubed boxes had to be resubed w/ min 1 year commitment. Until the recent marketing plan was announced, this went largely unnoticed or unmentioned. Only very recently - prior to 3/8 - did people start posting 'hey, I never knew I made a 1 year commitment!'
> 
> My first reaction a couple months ago to one of (the first?) the early mentions in a post was 'this is a huge mistake for TiVo.'


I remember hearing about the original 1 year requirement and not liking it then either. At first people naturally assumed the requirement was only enforced for people who had gotten a rebate, which seemed fair. Once it became known that the requirement applied even to people subbing a 6 year old S1 they bought on eBay many people, including myself, voiced our displeasure.

These changes will have a relatively small effect on me as long as MSD exists and as long as I can keep my one lifetime S2 running, but they sure rub me the wrong way. When the S3 is released my preference will be to buy the box outright and get the service for the MSD price (though I truly don't assume TiVo will allow S3's to qualify for the MSD rate). Barring that I'll take the contract with the lowest commitment time. Either way it's going to be a lot easier for another DVR company to compete with TiVo.

I used to look forward to replacing my Moxi with a HD TiVo....now I worry that when the time comes it won't be worth switching from Moxi.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jmoak said:


> It looks like they'll replace it, not fix it. No labor charges.
> 
> *BUT,*
> We still need to descern what a "reasonable" replacement fee is.
> ...


There has been talk of replacement, but no confirmation or terms. You'll see a $39 fee in my proposed marketing plan - its like giving the customer a $30 credit for returning the bad box and getting another refurb under the old commitment.



MickeS said:


> Maybe TiVo could do what my cellphone provider does, tack on an additional "insurance fee" for those who want it. It costs me $3/month, but then I get free repairs or a replacement if they can't repair my phone


There has also been talk about this, but again no confirmation. I fear TiVo decided on the Parts Only extension instead.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Classicsat:

That's some nice feedback.

I want to note that the box prices and sub fees are precisely the same as TiVo currently (and recently) has charged...$69 for the 80hr, $0 40hr refurb it took up to $39. In that light what do you think about the proposal?

Your talk of points might be very complex and the goal is extreme simplicity leading to very efficient marketing. Maybe you can expand the points concept so I understand better.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

HDTiVo said:


> There has been talk of replacement, but no confirmation or terms. You'll see a $39 fee in my proposed marketing plan


Gotcha'. I was just replying to your statement of:
"And you still have to pay TiVo whatever Labor rates it decides are appropriate."

as there should be no "labor" charge at all with the "no upfront cost" plan.

note I said _"should be"_.

but, heay. I've been wrong before.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Classicsat:
> 
> That's some nice feedback.
> 
> I want to note that the box prices and sub fees are precisely the same as TiVo currently (and recently) has charged...$69 for the 80hr, $0 40hr refurb it took up to $39. In that light what do you think about the proposal?


That is after rebate price though.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> I agree with your argument 100% however Tivo has decided that all new boxes (for more than a year now) must have a 1 year commitment when signing up for service.


But there's the problem - if a sub doesn't do anthing proactively after the contract has ended, service should STOP, and, if not, continue month-to-month at the current service only rate.

Requiring used, out-of-warranty boxes to sub under the same T&Cs as a new box is nuts. I'm willing to bet this part of the sub policy will be changed within the next year.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> But there's the problem - if a sub doesn't do anthing proactively after the contract has ended, service should STOP, and, if not, continue month-to-month at the current service only rate.
> 
> Requiring used, out-of-warranty boxes to sub under the same T&Cs as a new box is nuts. I'm willing to bet this part of the sub policy will be changed within the next year.


at the end of the original contract, service continues at the same monthly rate (16.95 to 19.95 or whatever) . some will just end up paying that because they did not do anything even though they may have qualified for the 6.95 rate.

and the free parts is kind of a red herring after the 1st year. How many people have had a tuner or power supply or mainboard fixed. It will 99% of the time be a hard drive which is not worth paying an exstra 4 to 8 dollars a month for.

if it is anything else I would just get a new TiVo and start a new plan.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

classicsat said:


> That is after rebate price though.


Recently the 'rebate' was instant with a 1 year prepayment of service. I thought your earlier specification of a one year commitment on the rental upgrade was appropriate.

The purpose of TiVo's plan and my plan is really to eliminate hassles. I'd rather add a few $ to the box price if it meant not doing the rebate fandango. $224 upfront gets you the box now, so how about $79 (instead of $69) plus $12.95/mo, for a total of $234.40 spread over the year (4.65% more than $224) (6.7% on the $155.40 over time)?

In the latest quarter, TiVo neted $58.82/box (blended avg) after rebates and channel payments. Selling direct, they'd get the $69 or $79.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> at the end of the original contract, service continues at the same monthly rate (16.95 to 19.95 or whatever) .


The same monthly rate idea is a bit of a misnomer in that the upfront payment is discounted vs. the monthly rate. 1yr its about 6.9%, 3yrs about 30.1%.

1yr - (19.95*12)/224 = 6.9% discount

3yr - (16.95*36)/469 = 30.1% discount

Even the discount on the one year would be a good return in this interest rate market.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> The same monthly rate idea is a bit of a misnomer in that the upfront payment is discounted vs. the monthly rate. 1yr its about 6.9%, 3yrs about 30.1%.
> 
> 1yr - (19.95*12)/224 = 6.9% discount
> 
> ...


well yah, but I was saying you continue to pay the 16.95 to 19.95 after the committment period, when you would qualify to pay 12.95 or 6.95 a month instead. kind of eats that upfront discount rather quickly.


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

(TOTAL ASIDE)

Everytime I see the title of this this thread in the Coffee House Discussion list.. 

"does tivo think i'm that stupid?"

I instantly think..

"Yes they do. They called and said so."

or

"They certainly hope you are."

J


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo intended to make you agree to another year comittment to lower the rate.


The key phrase. :down:

Just a pathetic move. You've already done at least your year commitment, perhaps even *three* years, and they hit you with another?

Tivo have destroyed a ton of good will this month.


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