# Tivo HDMI to AV Receiver (Fun with HDCP...)



## jonjblack (Mar 10, 2016)

I have a TiVo Roamio + 2 Mini setup. My Tivo is connected to an Onkyo AV receiver that has 2 HDMI outputs. Out of the Onkyo, one HDMI goes to an LG HDTV and one goes to a Sony projector. This setup was working fine up until the December/January time frame. At that point, I started getting some random audio or video dropouts. This happened on both the projector and the TV. The picture would eventually come back. It was acting like a classic HDCP negotiation issue.

Then, the system really started to get unstable after the recent software update (skipmode update). Going through the same setup, I would get no picture or sound at all. The other devices going through the Onkyo still work (Xbox, Apple TV, etc.). So, I went into troubleshooting mode.


 I tried different HDMI inputs on the Onkyo. It didn't work.
 I tried different HDMI cables. It didn't work.
 If I connected HDMI from the Tivo directly to the TV, audio and video worked.
 If I connected HDMI from the Tivo directly to the Projector, audio and video worked.
 I changed out the Onkyo to a newer model (TX-NR646). It didn't work.
 I connected the output of the Tivo to the input of an HDMI splitter. The output of the splitter went to the HDMI input of the Onkyo. The other output of the splitter was left empty. This almost worked. At first, I got back to the semi-stability I had in the December time frame. Dropouts every 5-10 minutes. This stopped working after 2 days. It returned to no audio or video.
 I connected the empty output of the splitter to an unused input on my LG TV. I thought the Tivo might see a valid "direct" HDCP connection to the TV. This seems to work. Video always comes up right away, but I don't immediate get audio through the receiver. I have to "prime" the audio by either starting playback of a recorded file or by going to the audio menu. I don't have to actually pick anything in the audio menu. Just going there seems to wake up the audio.

I have reported my issue to Tivo support in the hopes that the development team recognizes that something has gotten screwed up in HDCP in the last few updates. The support technician told me that since my Tivo was working when plugged directly into the TV, there was nothing they could do. Not an unexpected response, but disappointing nonetheless.

I was curious if anyone else is having this kind of HDCP negotiation issues with the latest software releases? Thanks!


----------



## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

I had an Onkyo receiver a while back. I ran everything thru it and used it as a HDMI switcher. I started having problems where I would get sound but no video. Turns out after checking things out that the switching part stopped passing thru 1080 and 720. 480 went thru with out a problem. I could get the 1080 and 720 by using component cables instead of the HDMI cable.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jonjblack said:


> I was curious if anyone else is having this kind of HDCP negotiation issues with the latest software releases? Thanks!


Perhaps it's not HDCP but EDID? If you search on that you will see posts going back a while. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10756480#post10756480


----------



## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

If you run from the TiVo to the projector and all works well.
...and run from the TiVo to the TV and all works well.
You have eliminated the problem, the Onkyo receiver, new or not!

Could it be a networking issue? For giggles try taking the Minis out of the loop and see what happens??

Have you rebooted your network, taking everything off line, rebooting the router, then bring the Roamio back up, see if that helps, then bring the Mini's back online one at a time.

I have had no issues have two Roamio's and a Premiere in line however, last night for the first time my 8yo Kuro started flashing from program to black screen to program randomly. Turning it off and back on again seemed to fix the issue. I think my Kuro might be starting to feel her age.

I don't use Mini's, tried them didn't like them! They seemed to create there own set of issue's. 
I run a Base Roamio (both cable and OTA) thru my Pioneer Elite receiver without issue, have also used it with my Roamio Pro again without issue.

Best of luck!!


----------



## sheshechic (Apr 14, 2012)

If you've done as Joe suggested, another thing to try, if you haven't already, is unplugging hdmi from the avr, then unplug the avr from power, let it sit like that for about 10 minutes. Reconnect your hdmi and turn on the tv- with avr off. Power on the avr last. If that doesn't work, I'd try to reset the avr.


----------



## jonjblack (Mar 10, 2016)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I will look in to the thread a little more that talked about the EDID issues. I did try unplugging everything, powering down, letting it sit for a while, then reconnecting. To real help. 

I am seeing that what I though was an easy workaround for getting audio back is not 100% reliable. Unless I turn on the TV first and go to the input coming from the splitter (out of the Tivo), I can't reliable get audio to come back through the receiver.

As for possibly being a networking issue, I can look into that. I did seem to have what I thought was an unrelated issue a few weeks ago. Playback on the main unit or the Minis was slow with some dropouts. After restarting my router, the Roamio, and one of the Minis, everything was back to semi-normal again (I still had the same issue on the Roamio as originally described.) The Minis have continued to work fine after that.

It is frustrating as everything was working up until a few months ago.


----------



## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

jonjblack said:


> Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I will look in to the thread a little more that talked about the EDID issues. I did try unplugging everything, powering down, letting it sit for a while, then reconnecting. To real help.
> 
> I am seeing that what I though was an easy workaround for getting audio back is not 100% reliable. Unless I turn on the TV first and go to the input coming from the splitter (out of the Tivo), I can't reliable get audio to come back through the receiver.
> 
> ...


There is a couple of things that have to be checked first.
If your Onkyo is a 2009 to 2012 model, the chip on the HDMI board maybe failing. Onkyo has a repair program for those receivers.
http://www.onkyousa.com/Support/service_info.php

Onkyos that have HDMI and were built before 2009 have issues were the capacitors on the HDMI board will fail because of heat. This can be fixed by replacing the old capacitors with newer and bigger ones. You will have to do this yourself or get an electronics repair shop to do this as Onkyo does not have any boards for those models.

The 646 model you mentioned does not have these issues. If your other HDMI devices work with the receiver then it is the Roamio that is the problem.

I am also having issues with sound while using my Roamios with my receiver. This started with the 20.5.6 update. I have a RT990 (SR 609) and I use HDMI pass through while in standby.
When I turn on the receiver the Roamio no longer senses the change in the HDMI chain and keeps sending 2 channel PCM stereo. In order to get DD 5.1, I have to either channel up or down or switch tuners in order to get the Roamio to resync with the TV. When I turn off the receiver the Roamio keeps sending DD 5.1 to the TV speakers and I get the helicopter noise from the TV speakers. I have to do the same process by changing the channel or tuner to get the Roamio to resync with the TV to send 2 channel PCM stereo to the TV speakers.

I have tried every possible trouble shooting procedure and I can not get this to work right. I can also report that 20.5.9 does not fix this either. This did work with the Premiere 4 with 20.5.6 so it is a problem with the Roamio line. I also have to note I that I have the Base Roamio and not the Plus or Pro. All my other devices that are connected to the receiver are functioning properly. I had the HDMI board replaced last January so I know that is not the problem.

There is a large number of threads that popped up with HDMI issues when the 20.5.6 update was rolled out so you are not the only one with this problem.


----------



## jonjblack (Mar 10, 2016)

Jed1 said:


> There is a couple of things that have to be checked first.
> If your Onkyo is a 2009 to 2012 model, the chip on the HDMI board maybe failing. Onkyo has a repair program for those receivers.
> http://www.onkyousa.com/Support/service_info.php
> 
> ...


Thank you. I am aware of the past Onkyo HDMI issues. The original setup that was working for me was an older TX-NR606 (2008 model). This did have an HDMI issue, but didn't make the cut for the exchange program. I bought the capacitors to do the replacement myself, but never found the time to open up the unit. I also had a TX-616 in a different setup in my house where I did take advantage of the Onkyo program to get the newer 646 model. The 606 that was working in my setup was only using one of the 2 HDMI outputs. The signal was being split between by the HDMI splitter I explained in my first post. This whole setup was working, but I didn't completely trust the old Onkyo 606 when I started seeing HDMI issues with the winter Tivo SW update. I replaced it with the 646 and I still have issues.

You bring up a good point on the pass through mode. At some point during my troubleshooting, I did enable this on my Onkyo 646. I don't actually get audio working on my TV with the pass through mode. Using the TV volume control, I get nothing. I never spent a lot of time with this as I don't use that configuration. I do always get audio (without any distortion) with the TV speakers if I switch to the other HDMI input on my TV that bypasses the Onkyo receiver. This is the secondary connection I added to try and workaround the HDCP / EDID problem.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I also have the basic Roamio. I updated it right after I bought it with one of the 2TB WD "Red" drives recommended here.


----------



## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

When I was having my problem the screen would turn green and around the edges it looked like a rainbow of colors.


----------



## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

jonjblack said:


> Thank you. I am aware of the past Onkyo HDMI issues. The original setup that was working for me was an older TX-NR606 (2008 model). This did have an HDMI issue, but didn't make the cut for the exchange program. I bought the capacitors to do the replacement myself, but never found the time to open up the unit. I also had a TX-616 in a different setup in my house where I did take advantage of the Onkyo program to get the newer 646 model. The 606 that was working in my setup was only using one of the 2 HDMI outputs. The signal was being split between by the HDMI splitter I explained in my first post. This whole setup was working, but I didn't completely trust the old Onkyo 606 when I started seeing HDMI issues with the winter Tivo SW update. I replaced it with the 646 and I still have issues.
> 
> You bring up a good point on the pass through mode. At some point during my troubleshooting, I did enable this on my Onkyo 646. I don't actually get audio working on my TV with the pass through mode. Using the TV volume control, I get nothing. I never spent a lot of time with this as I don't use that configuration. I do always get audio (without any distortion) with the TV speakers if I switch to the other HDMI input on my TV that bypasses the Onkyo receiver. This is the secondary connection I added to try and workaround the HDCP / EDID problem.
> 
> Edit: I forgot to mention that I also have the basic Roamio. I updated it right after I bought it with one of the 2TB WD "Red" drives recommended here.


If I am not mistaken the 646 has two HDMI outputs on the back. If it does you should dump that splitter and use the main HDMI output to go to the TV and the Sub HDMI output to go to your projector.
I was never a fan of those HDMI splitters so I never used them.


----------



## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

I got rid of my onkyo because it did not like the HDMI from the TIVO. I had to use a HDMI splitter that strips the HDCP. It worked but I needed to upgrade anyway. Not really but gave me a reason.


----------



## bungi43 (Sep 6, 2016)

Well today, all of a sudden my Tivo Roamio OTA (made in 2016) no longer wants to work with my AVR. The same setup it's been on for almost 4 years now. It will work fine if I directly connect it to my TV, but not if it is connected to my AVR. Suggestions?


----------



## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Try altering the Power Up Sequence and Timing.

For instance, start at one 'end' of the chain, let that device fully power on and 'settle', then move to the next device in the chain.

See if that helps?

-KP


----------



## bungi43 (Sep 6, 2016)

So I have a Pioneer Elite SC-77. I have the Tivo hooked into a 4 by switch (with my xbox 360 and HD DVD player)...items I don't use as much. For the last, probably 8 months or so It's gone through that switch. No problems. Today it's working around 2:00 PM. I power the unit down to move it, when I power it back up, it won't work. The 360 and HD DVD player will play through that setup, but not the Tivo. After messing around for about 2 1/2 hours, I figure out that for whatever reason, that setup will work on HDMI Inputs 1-4, but it won't on 6-8 (HDMI 5 is a front input)

Any idea why all of a sudden my Tivo won't work on HDMI 6, 7 or 8? I also tried hooking the TIVO directly into the AVR into those inputs without the switch, and still no go.

Really weird.


----------



## bungi43 (Sep 6, 2016)

kpeters59 said:


> Try altering the Power Up Sequence and Timing.
> 
> For instance, start at one 'end' of the chain, let that device fully power on and 'settle', then move to the next device in the chain.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That is the first thing I did. Then I tried different cables.

It's something with HDMI Inputs 6-8 on my Receiver...which it wasn't doing before. And even prior to 8 months ago, for the 3 years before that my Tivo had been in Input 8. Working just fine.

What's weird is....I got an update today. And after I powered down, then it quit working. I had all my stuff unhooked about 3 weeks ago as I was moving some stuff around in my HT, and it was working fine after that. So I don't get it.


----------



## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I own an Onkyo Receiver that makes great sound, but won't pass one single signal though an HDMI Port...things do break...

-KP


----------



## bungi43 (Sep 6, 2016)

Thanks kpeters. What is weird...those inputs will pass other signals, and they will pass other signals through that switcher...but for some reason not the Tivo.


----------



## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

kpeters59 said:


> I own an Onkyo Receiver that makes great sound, but won't pass one single signal though an HDMI Port...things do break...
> 
> -KP


I had the same problem after working OK for two years. It would pass component but not HDMI. I was using the receiver as a switcher for my devices. I ended up using the TV as the switcher and using the optical output of the TV and running it to the receiver. That way anything playing on the TV came out the receiver. I would leave the receiver on all the time. When the TV was turned off it stopped sending the audio to the receiver so there was no sound coming out of the speakers.


----------

