# Major TiVo Announcement Tomorrow



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

http://thomashawk.com/2006/03/big-announcement-from-tivo-coming.html

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE MEDIA ADVISORY

TiVo TO UNVEIL NEW INITIATIVE
WHAT: TiVo is hosting a press conference to discuss important developments.
WHO: Tom Rogers, President and CEO, TiVo and selected other special guests
WHEN: Thursday, March 2nd at 11:00 a.m. ET
WHERE: The Museum of Television & Radio
25 West 52nd Street
New York, New York

Start your speculating... NOW!


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

S3


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

"New Initiative" = probably just some new partnership that will go nowhere. 

Judging by the location: some TV-show and/or movie download service.


----------



## minorthr (Nov 24, 2001)

Apple, Google, MS, comcast or D* are buying them


----------



## HogarthNH (Dec 28, 2001)

More boring web video; no HD announcements whatsoever.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Oooo if they go to a subscription only box, I'lll be sooooo upset.

http://thomashawk.com/2006/02/tivo-close-to-subscription-only-box.html

They better not change the multi-discount though at the very least


----------



## juststained (Nov 2, 2005)

Hmmm Speculation abounds!


----------



## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

Let's not overhype anything or we'll end up depressed like a bunch of Apple fans were yesterday with the non-announcement of a lot of things 'rumored' to be ready for announcement (better video iPod, etc).

Too bad I can't pop into the city tomorrow


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Start your speculating... NOW!


Google recently announced access to content from the National Archives via Google Video ...
http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsA...01515Z_01_N28507530_RTRUKOC_0_US-ARCHIVES.xml

Access to some of The Museum of Television & Radio archive content and/or some of their original content via Tivo download wouldn't seem far fetched.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Hmm, tricky.

Probably not the zero-upfront initiative -- there would be no need for all this fanfare, and there wouldn't be "selected other special guests."

Not the S3 because it isn't ready yet, and for the same reasons as above.

Not the Comcast rollout because it isn't new and, again, for the reasons above.

I'm going to go with the launch of a new video download "network" in conjunction with Yahoo (probably), Comcast (likely), at least one major network (NBC?), and one cable network (like Comedy Central), and maybe a studio (Paramount, Time Warner). Anyway, a video download service of significant quality, not the Mickey Mouse stuff we've seen from everyone so far.

It will make television history, and thus the venue.

(My backup guess is the advertising search feature with Comcast, et al.)


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'd love to seem some sort of PPV download service. It seems several other companies, including Apple and Google, have started offering services like this so it doesn't seem too far fetched that TiVo might strike a similar deal.

Dan


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Dave commented to Hawk that "Initiative" was singular. I note that "developments" is plural. So is probably its multiple developments related to a single initiative. 

At least there's finally something to do today!


----------



## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Why New York??

Maybe it has to do with media?


----------



## golfnz34me (Mar 24, 2005)

Here's what I would like it to be:

Tivo today announced a joint venture with DirecTV and Dish Network which wiil allow new DirecTV and Dish Network satellite receivers to connect (via a IEEE 1394 connection) to TiVO powered Hi-Def PVRs. The new TiVO powered PVRs will have seemless integration with the satellite receiver and user expandable hard drive storage. Also, they have announced a drop in price for the TiVO service for these units. The new price will be $3.99/month.

Am I asking for too much?


----------



## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

I'd be fun to get their whole collection on Tivo.

(Not what I'm expecting tommorrow though!)

From the FAQ
http://www.mtr.org/about/about-faq.htm

Whats in your collection? Can I look online to see what you have ?

We have over 120,000 programs and advertisements, covering more than eighty-five years of television and radio history (beginning with a 1918 speech by labor leader Samuel Gompers). The collection spans all genres: comedy, drama, news, public affairs, performing arts, childrens, sports, reality, animation, and documentary, and includes a significant international presence, with seven thousand assets from seventy countries. The same collection is available in both New York and Los Angeles.

At this time we do not have the database of our collection available online. You need to come to the Museum in New York or Los Angeles to access it. But if you look at the information about our past screening series, by going here and then clicking past series, you will get a good idea of what you can find in the collection.

And you can contact one of our reference librarians to inquire about specific programs:


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

BTW, in 2000 both Microsoft and Real announced plans with The Museum of Television & Radio to make some of their content available via the internet (at http://windowsmedia.com/ and http://www.real.com/ respectively). AFAIK, nothing ever came of either announcement.


----------



## Solver (Feb 17, 2005)

Awful nightmare I had! I dreamt I was reading under tomorrows headline:

"To drive the final nail in its own coffin, Tivo announced that its basic monthly subscription price would be increased to $19.95 and that it would discontinue the lifetime subscription option, starting immediately."  


SG

Something to consider:
How popular would the iPod be, if Apple sold only its Generation 2 model?
(that is a model with no video, no color, no remote, no external options, no click wheel, no ...)

How popular is TiVo now, selling only its Gen 2 model?


----------



## ScottNY845 (Feb 4, 2002)

I am going to go with a BOOM BOX plugin in for the Tivo and a $99 leather case for it as well...

Hell, if apple can do it for the ipod, tivo cannot be far behind....look at the track record for BAD BUSINESS moves on part of Tivo and there ya go....


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Can't be S3 since it says *NEW* initiative ...plus the word "initiative" indicates some kind of partnership or effort and not product.


----------



## juststained (Nov 2, 2005)

> Awful nightmare I had! I dreamt I was reading under tomorrows headline:
> 
> "To drive the final nail in its own coffin, Tivo announced that its basic monthly subscription price would be increased to $19.95 and that it would discontinue the lifetime subscription option, starting immediately."
> 
> SG


You're basically right but thats later and not what tomorrow is about.

Maybe I will come back at 12:01 EST and drop some hints 

P.S-Did you see Spongebob in your dream?? He may have something to do with tomorrow in a round about way.


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

ScottNY845 said:


> I am going to go with a BOOM BOX plugin in for the Tivo and a $99 leather case for it as well...


Ha! I was thinking the same thing!


----------



## Stoystown (Jun 13, 2002)

Prediction: Download service, pay per view of old video shows.

Reality: I am NEVER correct in my predictions. Except, I did pick the Steelers to win the Super Bowl this year.


----------



## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I'd love to seem some sort of PPV download service. It seems several other companies, including Apple and Google, have started offering services like this so it doesn't seem too far fetched that TiVo might strike a similar deal.
> 
> Dan


Problem I see is that TIVO was "stupid" when they made the current boxes with NO ETHERNET jack :down: And the port is limited to USb1.1 which kind of sucks for large files - my guess is it would take about a day to get a movie....

just my 2 cents


----------



## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

USB 1.1 is plenty fast when all you have is cable or dsl for downloading content.


----------



## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

johnner1999 said:


> Problem I see is that TIVO was "stupid" when they made the current boxes with NO ETHERNET jack :down: And the port is limited to USb1.1 which kind of sucks for large files - my guess is it would take about a day to get a movie....
> 
> just my 2 cents


Actually most of the more recent boxes are all USB 2 capable.


----------



## shady (May 31, 2002)

How about this for speculation:

We've seen the discussions about free tivo boxes with higher subscription costs. How about the opposite?

How about a pricing plan where you pay more up front for the box, but it comes with TiVo Basic.
Couple that with a deal with a cable company that agrees to roll out TiVos with TiVo Basic to all their analog subscribers ...


----------



## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

andyf said:


> Actually most of the more recent boxes are all USB 2 capable.


Really?

When did they start putting USB 2 capability in? And how can you distinguish among the S2s that have it and those that don't?

Thanks,

Scott A.


----------



## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

Scott Atkinson said:


> Really?
> 
> When did they start putting USB 2 capability in? And how can you distinguish among the S2s that have it and those that don't?
> 
> ...


If the Model number starts with 2 or 5 you have USB 2.0
If the Model number starts with 1 you have USB 1.1.

SVR3000 is the only exception - Model 110 with USB 2.0


----------



## Hew (Apr 18, 2004)

What about a new initiative in international expansion? Could TiVo be going back to England and expanding into other european countries like germany and italY? Or what if the TGC people are ready to expand into the Chinese market which has been the plan all along. 

Tom Rogers has said that expansion to Europe is a "Primary Objective".

Here is what I think is likely:

30% Broadband download service with a few partners.
20% Free box for increased service cost. (however i don't know why they would have special guests allongside to announce this.)
15% New Cable Partnership.
15% International Expansion with an international cable deal perhaps?
5% Series 3
5% Commercial download service.
5% Comcast launch date.
3% DTV extends partnership.
2% Something completely different.

Can't wait to see what it is...


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Has anyone seen any independent confirmation that this thing is real? Everything I've seen so far references Hawk as the source. Does Hawk realize that April Fools Day comes in April? Could someone be "punking" him?


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

How about an initiative to move towards software only or box w/sw

pc's with tv tuners could use the tivo software...yes, no?


----------



## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

I like the TiVo box though. It's quiet and attractive.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

sirfergy said:


> I like the TiVo box though. It's quiet and attractive.


i dont mind it either...

just thinking of a way tivo could make money without really losing any...


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Test said:


> pc's with tv tuners could use the tivo software...yes, no?


PC is an "uncontrolled" environment. Not a good idea.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Someone just posted a comment on my site claiming this is the big announcement...
http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/n...e-kidzone-parental-control-service-03010438/"



> TiVo is going to announce their new KidZone service that aims to give parents guidance and control over what their kids watch on TV. Now, this isnt your standard, run-of-the-mill parental control feature. KidZone actually creates virtual TiVo menus and virtual channels, specifically targeted to the children. TiVo partnered with leading parenting and family groups including Common Sense Media and The Parents TV Council to select kid-friendly content for the new service.


I hope they're wrong, because that is LAME LAME LAME. Then again maybe it'll move boxes and maybe I'd feel different as a parent. Nah... it's LAME!


----------



## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

How'd Gearlive get this?

Can anyone verify?

I wonder if it also means downloadable content will be available.

http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/n...ce-kidzone-parental-control-service-03010438/

I wouldn't call this that major in of itself, but If it's true, it hint's at Tivo's personalizable menus and all that.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Scott Atkinson said:


> Really?
> 
> When did they start putting USB 2 capability in? And how can you distinguish among the S2s that have it and those that don't?


Like 3 years ago. The only boxes that have USB 1.1 are the original 140 series boxes. (check the serial number sticker, the model number begins with a 140 if you have one of these) However even if you have a USB 1.1 connection USB 1.1 runs at a higher speed then most broadband connections, so it's not really an issue.

As for how long it takes to download a movie in the real world.... TiVo did a test run a few months ago of some Hong Kong movie and it only took a few of hours to download. If you think about it DirecTV quality video is encoded at 3-4Mbps. The average cable modem runs at 3-5Mbps, so realtime transfers via broadband are entirely possible. Even if you have a slower 1.5Mbps connection it'll only take 4-5 hours to download a 2 hour movie.

Dan


----------



## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

davezatz said:


> Someone just posted a comment on my site claiming this is the big announcement...
> http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/n...e-kidzone-parental-control-service-03010438/"
> 
> I hope they're wrong, because that is LAME LAME LAME. Then again maybe it'll move boxes and maybe I'd feel different as a parent. Nah... it's LAME!


As a parent, it excites me none. It would not have influenced my Tivo purchasing decision one bit if it were available when we bought our Tivo.

edit: I'm hoping it's a standalone HDTivo (S3) - may as well dream big!


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I hope they're wrong, because that is LAME LAME LAME. Then again maybe it'll move boxes and maybe I'd feel different as a parent. Nah... it's LAME!


Yeah, it is a bit weak, but their marketing folks may have reason to believe that this will move TiVo-brand DVRs. Rogers did say in the interview yesterday (Monday?) something about getting much more specific in targeting segments of the TV audience. This would certainly fit that strategy, and it is a big, big segment of the market. And it is a way to differentiate the service.

But why would they announce a service tomorrow that won't be available until June?


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> But why would they announce a service tomorrow that won't be available until June?


A kid-friendly TiVo box in pastel or primary colors will be released then? Have I mentioned LAME recently?


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> A kid-friendly TiVo box in pastel or primary colors will be released then? Have I mentioned LAME recently?


Hmm, seems like someone picked the right avatar.


----------



## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

A Tivo-shaped Pez dispenser!


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> Yeah, it is a bit weak, but their marketing folks may have reason to believe that this will move TiVo-brand DVRs. Rogers did say in the interview yesterday (Monday?) something about getting much more specific in targeting segments of the TV audience. This would certainly fit that strategy, and it is a big, big segment of the market. And it is a way to differentiate the service.
> 
> But why would they announce a service tomorrow that won't be available until June?


I was thinking about the same part of that interview when I saw the big anouncement tomorrow thing as well. Download could be included in that and they 
- hello why did anyone not put these two together -
would have a higher per month sub, free box that will do downloads as well and some of the content is included in the higher sub fee. Plus you have ways to terget specific content on a box, like kidzone - or whatever as part of the new higher sub "service".

maybe new hardware to go with it to facilitate downloads ?


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I was thinking about the same part of that interview when I saw the big anouncement tomorrow thing as well. Download could be included in that and they
> - hello why did anyone not put these two together -
> would have a higher per month sub, free box that will do downloads as well and some of the content is included in the higher sub fee. Plus you have ways to terget specific content on a box, like kidzone - or whatever as part of the new higher sub "service".
> 
> maybe new hardware to go with it to facilitate downloads ?


You know TiVo tried to offer a premium extra cost service a while ago, they called HMO. It took only 6 months or so before they made it free and pissed many old customers off. I reallllllyyyyy hope they don't go down that path again. TiVo used to be an innovator.... and I think the only thing that is going to save them now is to somehow leapfrog over the rising competition with some new innovative directive, hardware, etc.... what ever. I hope I am wrong but this thing tomorrow could shape up to be a huge disappointment.

One thought is that Apple's event yesterday could be a nice smoke screen for a suprise announcement with TiVo tomorrow. Everyone want's Apple to come up with a PVR but maybe they have been working with TiVo for a while now on just that. In fact they did announce an update to the Front Row software with the ability to stream content. Could be cool if some of that content is TiVo files.

???


----------



## ScottNY845 (Feb 4, 2002)

Just another bad business move by Tivo....Like we should have expected anything more from a company that if it has 2 legs, one is already in the coffin and the other is off the ground and starting to bend at the knee and flip over the ledge of the coffin.


<-----Snoring.....


NOT IMPRESSED....MOVE ALONG THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE....PLEASE DISPERSE!!!


----------



## Kingfish (Dec 14, 2005)

Tivo spins off to UAE and all subscriptions are null and void.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Like 3 years ago. The only boxes that have USB 1.1 are the original 140 series boxes. (check the serial number sticker, the model number begins with a 140 if you have one of these)


To be fair, I thought it was only the newer 7.x software that had the USB 2.0 drivers...


----------



## garfong (Aug 25, 2005)

<----Prays for vongo partnership.


Edit: Or movielink or cinemanow...


----------



## drhump (Oct 13, 2003)

that kidzone thing would be lame. hardly qualifies as 'major'. my tivos have very effecitve parental control systems already. they're called parents.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Someone just posted a comment on my site claiming this is the big announcement...
> http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/n...e-kidzone-parental-control-service-03010438/"
> 
> I hope they're wrong, because that is LAME LAME LAME. Then again maybe it'll move boxes and maybe I'd feel different as a parent. Nah... it's LAME!


Lame to you and me, perhaps, but if it sells more TiVo subscriptions to parents, it's not lame to TiVo, Inc. We'll see if this is a genuine leak or not. Can't help thinking that "kidzone" sounds too much like "killzone" though.

Even if genuine, though, there's no reason to despair, as they said announcements, ie, plural. So we'll have other news to chew on. Remember, they have not officially announced the Series 3 dual tuner HD CableCARD TiVo yet, so they may announce that. They may have announcements about the Comcast deal. Maybe other things we haven't thought of yet.

I don't expect a movie downloading service announcement, because of difficulties with the studios; ie, if Netflix could not manage to work out something with the studios, I don't imagine that TiVo could, either. However, given the location of this announcement, if TiVo could manage to work out such a deal, which potentially revolutionizes TV and other media, then announcing it in the Museum of Television and Radio makes sense. But that's probably too big an announcement to hope for.

Whatever is announced, I predict that the usual trolls will show up to pontificate that this "proves" that TiVo is on its last legs, is desperate, will be dead any day now, yada yada yada.....


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

dmdeane said:


> Lame to you and me, perhaps, but if it sells more TiVo subscriptions to parents, it's not lame to TiVo, Inc. We'll see if this is a genuine leak or not.


If it turns out to be real, I'm going to poll my buddies at work with children and get their read on it. The one guy I know offhand who might appreciate something like that has DirecTV... and I'm *sure* his Sunday Ticket takes precedence over kiddie programming and filtering.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

dmdeane said:


> I don't expect a movie downloading service announcement, because of difficulties with the studios; ie, if Netflix could not manage to work out something with the studios, I don't imagine that TiVo could, either.


There is a new device called MovieBeam http://www.moviebeam.com/ backed by Disney. I have a hard time believing that's going to succeed.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Test said:


> How about an initiative to move towards software only or box w/sw
> 
> pc's with tv tuners could use the tivo software...yes, no?


That would be a nightmare for TiVo to support. Won't happen, unless something changed on the PC hardware front, or unless TiVo really was desperate. Remember, this is the "market" where ReplayTV went to die: as PC software bundled with Hauppage TV tuner cards.

Someone on this forum (I'm blanking on their screen name at the moment) speculated on the idea of a TiVo shrunk down to the size of a PC card that could be installed in a PC, which would when installed totally control the PC when in "TiVo mode" and thus get around most of the hardware support problems, but that's just speculation at this point.


----------



## garfong (Aug 25, 2005)

Well, if cinemanow is going to be the movie distributor for the new intel "Viiv" media pc I don't see why TIVO can't pull something off. Especially, if they get movielink to do the distributing as afaik that is owned directly by the studios. 

Yourmoney-->Tivo-->Netflix-->studios vs Your$-->tivo-->studios 

I'm not sure how much of the rental fee for videos goes to the studios normally but I'm guessing they want all of it.

EDIT: Moviebeem doesn't have a monthly fee and doesn't need the internet, so this might be attractive to some who are sick of their television stations and don't want/need a dvr.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

weird...after someone asked if the story was anywhere else....i looked on some sites n saw that engadget had an article about the announcement, then a recent post was the "leaked" information about the kidzone........

now its gone.....


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

c3 said:


> There is a new device called MovieBeam http://www.moviebeam.com/ backed by Disney. I have a hard time believing that's going to succeed.


Actually that service has been around for a few years, and was a flop. It was recently "relaunched":

http://www.siliconbeat.com/entries/...sney_tries_again_to_deliver_to_your_home.html


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Test said:


> weird...after someone asked if the story was anywhere else....i looked on some sites n saw that engadget had an article about the announcement, then a recent post was the "leaked" information about the kidzone........
> 
> now its gone.....


I first saw the link to kidzone posted in the comments section of the article on PVR Blog, and it's still there at the moment.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Just this morning, my local Boston radio station announced that TiVo was going to be giving away their basic box for FREE, but would be bumping up the subscription. Rationale mentioned by this guy was related to competing with the multiple other DVR sources.

The announcer did not mention his source, but he did expound the virtues of TiVo. 

This may be old news, but I had not heard about the FREE thing or the bump in subscription.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> The one guy I know offhand who might appreciate something like that has DirecTV... and I'm *sure* his Sunday Ticket takes precedence over kiddie programming and filtering.


That's what is called "anecdotal evidence" as my university history grad school profs would constantly remind me. I'm guessing you are not in marketing! If TiVo is actually going to do this, they must have some kind of research that indicates there is a market for this kind of service. Maybe not a huge market, but enough of a market to justify the expense.


----------



## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

I can't imagine the kidzone thing being a big announcement. It would, alone, be fairly lame. I think coupled with other "important developments" it may be significant. 

For example, 1) why block kids from content, unless there is a growing abundance of content out there... ie this means greater amount of downloads.

2) Greater personalzation of tivo menu. ... not great in intself but kinda leading edge... remember their patent on rfid tags?

3) I still think mass deployment via free boxes may make a kidthing somewhat good for parents.

Tivo staff has been pretty good about not leaking stuff...so it's also kinda strange something was leaked. .. and to gearlive, not other tivo outlets.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dmdeane said:


> If TiVo is actually going to do this, they must have some kind of research that indicates there is a market for this kind of service. Maybe not a huge market, but enough of a market to justify the expense.


I agree with your first point, but I'd say that people w/ kids = big market. And if this is the real story, then it could generate a lot of buzz and get a lot of coverage. But I would hope that TiVo was ready to deliver the goods, rather than just announcing a feature that is coming in the future.

As users, most of us aren't going to get too excited about this thing. But it could be very good for TiVo. It they are doing it in partnership with Nick or Toon, or Comcast (if this feature is available on the Comcast/TiVo product, it could really help drive people to sign up for or upgrade to that offering), it could be a big area of growth for them. Couple it with the new zero-upfront pricing, and a couple of other new features (like Internet search and download), the Series 3, and maybe TiVo isn't as dead as some people seem to think.


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

My guess? TiVo on other CE platforms besides TiVo and Moto... I'm thinking a TiVo powered SA device...


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

dmdeane said:


> That's what is called "anecdotal evidence" as my university history grad school profs would constantly remind me.


I don't disagree with it being anecdotal. I don't plan on extrapolating a few friend's opinions in determining the success or failure of the venture - that's what TiVo's quarterly reports are for. However, I am interested in their opinions as parents. Having no kids, my perspective (on many things) is quite different.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

peteypete said:


> For example, 1) why block kids from content, unless there is a growing abundance of content out there... ie this means greater amount of downloads.


Good point. If you are going to have internet search and download, you almost have to have something like KidZone first, or the little darlings are going to need therapy much sooner than they otherwise would.



> 2) Greater personalzation of tivo menu. ... not great in intself but kinda leading edge... remember their patent on rfid tags?


Didn't TiVo recently trademark some terms like MiVo or MyVo?



> Tivo staff has been pretty good about not leaking stuff...so it's also kinda strange something was leaked. .. and to gearlive, not other tivo outlets.


If the leak turns out to be real, someone needs to be fired. Stephen, Pony, fire someone. It doesn't matter if they were the source of the leak or not, just fire someone. It's best if it someone that everyone likes and who really needs the job. It is important to send a message that these shenanigans won't be tolerated.


----------



## davidkasper (Mar 2, 2006)

:down: Hopefully Tom is going to make the announcement that they will stop putting that "*Record Now*" icon on shows like American Idol or have figured out a way for it not to be there when you record it. Because it is horrible. I have stopped recording the show because I don't want to see it there the whole time. I have 3 Tivo's with lifetime subscriptions and got my first one in 1998, but if this continues I'll use anything else!!!!!!!!!!!! :down:


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davidkasper said:


> :down: Hopefully Tom is going to make the announcement that they will stop putting that "*Record Now*" icon on shows like American Idol or have figured out a way for it not to be there when you record it. Because it is horrible. I have stopped recording the show because I don't want to see it there the whole time. I have 3 Tivo's with lifetime subscriptions and got my first one in 1998, but if this continues I'll use anything else!!!!!!!!!!!! :down:


The whole time? You have the "record now" tag on during the show? Not just the commercials, the show? And the whole show?

That shouldn't happen.

I think you have found a bug in the system. Why don't you go to the help forum and describe what is happening -- maybe the folks there can help you, or at least the TiVo people can hear about it and try to track it down. Good luck.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Let me make a wild guess. Since this announcement is just a week before earnings report it has to be big (overwise it would have been announced during conference call), something of the magnitude of Comcast announcement. None of the speculations made in this thread is even close in magnitude and only announcement I can think off that would do it is a favorable settlement in a pending Dish law suit. Something like royalty settlement or perhaps DishTiVo.


----------



## garfong (Aug 25, 2005)

I really hope they announce something substantial. The whole netflix letdown still hurts.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> I agree with your first point, but I'd say that people w/ kids = big market.


People with kids is a big market; people with kids who would buy a TiVo just to get this alleged new "KidZone" feature - that's a possible future market of as yet undetermined size. Certainly not all people with kids are going to get a TiVo if TiVo announces this KidZone thingie. How many might do so, that's the question.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

samo said:


> Let me make a wild guess. Since this announcement is just a week before earnings report it has to be big (overwise it would have been announced during conference call), something of the magnitude of Comcast announcement. None of the speculations made in this thread is even close in magnitude and only announcement I can think off that would do it is a favorable settlement in a pending Dish law suit. Something like royalty settlement or perhaps DishTiVo.


But why would they chose to make such an announcement in the Museum of Television and Radio?

You're probably right though; we are probably all pretty far off the mark.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

davidkasper said:


> I have 3 Tivo's with lifetime subscriptions and got my first one in 1998


Not to quibble, but TiVo was not sold to the public until 1999.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

peteypete said:


> 2) Greater personalzation of tivo menu. ... not great in intself but kinda leading edge... remember their patent on rfid tags?


Greater personalization of TiVo menus would be great, especially if combined with opening up full TiVo functionality and APIs to the HME community, ie, let the HME hackers totally control the TiVo box to make it do useful things.

But personalized menus and HME is really more of a "power user" type thing; great for existing TiVo users but not a good tool for attracting new subscribers. And thus, probably not something worthy of a special announcement at the Museum of Television and Radio.


----------



## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

I also think that you're not going to do personalization stuff on the Series 2. I mean it's getting kinda old. I can't imagine Tivo devoting the resources on a series 2 to personalized menus, which also implies, personalized hard drive space. I don't think a standard 40 hour tivo will benefit from much personalization... so I'm hoping for a ... series 3 SA???


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

peteypete said:


> I also think that you're not going to do personalization stuff on the Series 2. I mean it's getting kinda old. I can't imagine Tivo devoting the resources on a series 2 to personalized menus, which also implies, personalized hard drive space. I don't think a standard 40 hour tivo will benefit from much personalization... so I'm hoping for a ... series 3 SA???


There's no reason that the code for personalization won't carry over seamlessly from the Series 2 to the Series 3. There's millions of installed Series 2 boxes right now, and zero Series 3 boxes, and they aren't going to shut down production of the Series 2 boxes any time soon. The transition from Series 2 to 3 is going to take much longer, and be much more gradual, than the abrupt shift from Series 1 to 2. There will be a long period of *overlap* during the transition from Series 2 to Series 3, which did not exist in the transition from Series 1 to Series 2.

I also don't see what personalization has to do with disk drive space.

Series 2 may be "old" but it is also cheap to mass produce now, and HME and menu personalization would in no way tax the capabilities of the hardware. Series 2 will be around as long as analog cable TV is around.


----------



## sixseven (Jan 6, 2005)

What about TTG support for PSP/ipod video? Aren't they supposed to be announcing that soon? Based on my application to become a beta tester (not selected), it seemed like expanding TTG was a strong initiative...


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

A kids service like outlined would be a huge disappointment, especially as a major announcement. They would also find it to have been a huge waste of time to have spent any money on developing or setting up. There is no big clamoring of pent-up demand for such a service. There are plenty of ways to control content as it is, beyond just the basics of good parenting.

I just see the market appeal for this as a blip above zero. It won't sell more units, it won't generate more revenue.... In fact I would consider such an announcement to be a bit of a negative....

Before I go on any more I will wait for the announcement and see...PVR penetration is not to the point where anyone needs to be focused on selling extra services or secondary and tertiary boxes to children.


----------



## Tysonation (Nov 12, 2005)

Kidzone article on NYTimes...Officially Boring.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

This is it? Can't believe what I'm reading. Is it best hype that Rogers can come up with? What is the target market? Parents who need to control what their kids are watching? How many of you even knew about these two "watch" groups? Ridiculous. What a stupid way of spending R&D money. TiVo marketing department at it's best.


----------



## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Well, it hit NYTimes, so I guess it's good info. Kinda lame but who knows, lots of concerned parents out there. Common Sense Media has lots of high powered backers but I'm a little concerned about the turn to the right? 

What about "TV your way". I guess not the kids way!!


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

peteypete said:


> Well, it hit NYTimes, so I guess it's good info. Kinda lame but who knows, lots of concerned parents out there. Common Sense Media has lots of high powered backers but I'm a little concerned about the turn to the right?


I'm not sure how this is a "turn to the right". No adult is going to be forced to use this service. I question how many parents want to turn over control of their kid's TV watching to private "kid friendly" media filtering services, however.


> What about "TV your way". I guess not the kids way!!


Legally speaking, the kids never had the right to "watch what they want, when they want" anyway. It's TV their parents way, and always has been, even if parents did not chose to exercise close control. This is a non-issue, because nothing has changed. We still have "TV our way", if we are adults.

That said, if this is the *only* big announcement, then this really is a flop, hardly worth a special Museum of Television and Radio press conference. Maybe they have other big announcements and this KidZone thing was leaked as a way of keeping us talking about minor stuff and fooling us until the real big news is announced.

If so, bravo for TiVo PR for keeping us guessing. But I'm not hopeful.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> But why would they chose to make such an announcement in the Museum of Television and Radio?...


TiVo *always* does the unexpected


----------



## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

I think we're all getting jaded around here. The initial posting says "important" which KidZone would be to a certain segment of society. We've seen a number of new posters wander through here asking for something akin to the rumored KidZone. 

Just prepare for something 'important' to someone other than yourself and maybe you won't get so depressed.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

VinceA said:


> Just prepare for something 'important' to someone other than yourself and maybe you won't get so depressed.


It's too late, I'm depressed. Though I do want to find out more in a few hours... perhaps there will be tidbits in the announcement that will appeal to or apply to me.

By the way I keep going back to Chucky's question regarding why announce something now if it won't launch until June? While I can't answer that question is it possible this stuff will live on a Series 3.. maybe arriving in June? Or is that just my wishful thinking?

Speaking of Chucky, I'm also wondering if this story really was leaked to GearLive by someone at TiVo... or maybe it was someone affiliated with the NY Times. Heck, could he have seen the article early?


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

W Auggie H said:


> You know TiVo tried to offer a premium extra cost service a while ago, they called HMO. It took only 6 months or so before they made it free and pissed many old customers off. ???


Yes but HMO was just another feature with no additional content added by TiVo - it was your pics and music or shows they passed around.

I am speculating that if they bump up rates then they add in some new content source to justify it and get more people to buy.

we already know about bumping the sub up to 16.95 for a year and getting a free box - that is old news and has no appeal to current subscribers especially if the 16.95 lasts after the first year. It did draw in more new subscribers though, so I certainly expect to see something along those lines.

But kidzone and a new subscription model are not a major announcement. Just old news and another cool feature I would use on one of my TiVos


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yes but HMO was just another feature with no additional content added by TiVo - it was your pics and music or shows they passed around.


That's true, and I agree if they were to bump the subscription it would have to offer some value beyond just new features in the software. Heck, isn't that the whole point of a subscription type model? I pay a subscription so that when they make updates I get those a no additional cost.


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

Out of all the features users have begged for over the years, Tivo is adding a censorship option? Are you kidding me? I sure hope Tivo has something else.


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

I don't recall TiVo ever doing a Apple-esque media hyped announcement before this. Sure, they have had their share of media geared events like that Valentine's Day debacle. Even when they announced the Comcast deal they didn't have an event like this. I think this is why we are all hoping that this could be something big for TiVo. Now, we could be seeing several announcement at once and the KidsZone could be just a part of the total package. 

To further speculate... if you are going to go to all this trouble to plan a media event like this, why then would you leak or give the story to the NYT to run and spoil your surprise the day before the event? What's the point of the media event if the NYT is running the story already? 

I guess I am just hanging on to the hope that we have more to hear about today other than this KidsZone stuff.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I can't believe they'd do this kind of special event JUST for "Kidzone". If they do, they've lost their minds.

One small sentence in the NYTimes article gives me hope there's something more coming today: "Another feature under development will let users share lists of their favorite shows with their friends."

However, along with Netflix it'll probably be vaporware or at least a loooooooong time off.

PS Hey TiVo - how ya comin with that Mac version of TTG?


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> I can't believe they'd do this kind of special event JUST for "Kidzone". If they do, they've lost their minds.


This seems to be the consensus. Please, please TiVo don't do it. Please make us believers again!!!


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I just hope it's not a religious group making the call on what's appropriate or what's not. It opens a door to potential future censorship for everyone.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Try http://www.tivo.com/kidzone and see what happens, btw.


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> I just hope it's not a religious group making the call on what's appropriate or what's not. It opens a door to potential future censorship for everyone.


Uhh... I think KidsZone would be based on the TV Ratings system that is already in place. If you wish to read a conspiracy into that, please be my guest.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> Try http://www.tivo.com/kidzone and see what happens, btw.


hahahaha ...... oh man


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Try http://www.tivo.com/kidzone and see what happens, btw.


Ahhhh Shhhhiiitt! It's official.










Please don't let this be the only thing we hear about today!!!


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

W Auggie H said:


> Uhh... I think KidsZone would be based on the TV Ratings system that is already in place. If you wish to read a conspiracy into that, please be my guest.


From the NY Times article:



> Under the TiVo plan, parents will be able to designate ratings issued by one of two groups  Common Sense Media or the Parents Television Council.
> 
> Common Sense Media was formed in 2003 with backers including Charles R. Schwab, the brokerage company executive, and Philip F. Anschutz, the billionaire investor; the Parents Television Council, formed in 1995, is headed by L. Brent Bozell III, a conservative commentator.


Do some research on Brent Bozell and the Parents Television Council. I don't want them to have anything to do with my TiVo.

I'm generally very pro-TiVo, and quick to defend them against people with complaints, but they are getting into bed with a pretty unsavory character here.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> From the NY Times article:
> 
> Do some research on Brent Bozell and the Parents Television Council. I don't want them to have anything to do with my TiVo.
> 
> I'm generally very pro-TiVo, and quick to defend them against people with complaints, but they are getting into bed with a pretty unsavory character here.


umm, you do realize you choose to do this or not do this right? It is not censorship when you pick it for yourself. Don't know much about either group but what this really does is let TiVo show again how they can HELP the cable companies by heading off this whole a la carte pricing thing the groups initially were seeking as a way to make sure only "family" entertainment was available.

the cable companies are the real bedfellow here adn Rogers is actively seeking deals, you can be sure of that. I would not be surprised to hear of some deal with cable company(s) but that is pure speculation as I have not heard or seen anything of that sort


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

Engadget is now running with the KidZone story:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/02/tivos-kidzone-offers-new-parental-control-options/


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I gotta admit, the PTC has said and done a lot of stupid things in the past. I certainly don't see why TiVo would partner with them. But otherwise, I don't see the big deal. No one is forcing anyone to use this so whether you like it or not really doesn't matter unless this is a feature you are looking for.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the cable companies are the real bedfellow here adn Rogers is actively seeking deals, you can be sure of that.


That was my first reaction to KidZone too ...

There's lots of people (including the new FCC Chairman Kevin J. Martin and new FCC Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate) pressuring for more kid / family friendly cable. Lots of talk of A La Carte (at the FCC and in Congress). Even talk of indecency regulation for the extended cable channels.

None of the MVPDs (cable nor dbs nor telcos) particularly like additional regulations ... so the more 'family friendly' features they have the more ammo to deflect this stuff.

All the cable companies have come out with and announced their 'family tier' options for exactly this reason. The more kid friendly stuff cable has right now the better for them.

KidZone to me as a consumer ... yawn.

But KidZone as a way to accelerate MVPD and cable deals ... a bit more interesting.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> It's too late, I'm depressed. Though I do want to find out more in a few hours... perhaps there will be tidbits in the announcement that will appeal to or apply to me.


One of the advantages you have as a media blogger is that this is guaranteed to apply to you in some way. Just maybe not in your personal TV viewing. 



> By the way I keep going back to Chucky's question regarding why announce something now if it won't launch until June? While I can't answer that question is it possible this stuff will live on a Series 3.. maybe arriving in June? Or is that just my wishful thinking?


I keep coming back to that, too. For a company that has started to get a reputation for promising things and not delivering (whether justified or not) it seems kind of self-defeating to try to generate a bunch of buzz over a product that they can't market or sell for another three or four months. It's not like they are hyping Playstations, they are trying to appeal to sensible parents' who want to make sure the programs their kids watch have some value.

So I do have some hope that there is more to it. Maybe the ability to download special kids' programming from some of the networks or studios. Maybe an investment by one of the backers of this project to help make it available to low income families. Something like that, while still not making Dave happy (  ) would be very significant for the company.



> Speaking of Chucky, I'm also wondering if this story really was leaked to GearLive by someone at TiVo... or maybe it was someone affiliated with the NY Times. Heck, could he have seen the article early?


Fire someone anyway. While the GearLive article didn't say it came specifically from a TiVo insider, one of their comments on one of the blogs said it was. Good enough reason to send a message to the "team." (In the interest of full disclosure, Steve Jobs and I were classmates at the Attila the Hun School of Management.)


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

dt_dc said:


> All the cable companies have come out with and announced their 'family tier' options for exactly this reason. The more kid friendly stuff cable has right now the better for them.


Dish Network just recently released a new "family" package as well...

DishFamily


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Well I conducted an informal survey of 4 work buddies with children, ages ranging from 5 - 14 

1. Currently uses Dish DVR to block certain channels (MTV) and content types (SC), sees no need for suggestions and speculated the recommendations would be coming from conservative groups and leave out shows he might allow or support (2 daughters, 10 & 14) 

2. Has no DVR, said it sounds like features he might not be able to appreciate it unless he had it in the house but wouldn't buy a unit to check it out (2 children 10 & 14) 

3. Dish DVR, feature doesn't interest him, but if the TiVo offered more features in general than his Dish at the same price or less he'd think about switching (3 children, 5 & 9 & one age i don't remember but older than the 9) 

4. Cable company DVR, doesn't trust other people's recommendations and wants to make her own and teach her children how to make appropriate choices on their own (14 year old daughter and older son this wouldn't apply to)

5. One buddy with no kids wanted to add his two cents and thinks it might be a nice feature addition for those who already own, but didn't imagine the feature selling many boxes by itself

EDIT: Added another work buddy, mother


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

I did some research and those ratings companies are a joke. I can't believe Tivo is risking a software update for this feature. Tivo ALWAYS screws up software updates. How many people will eagerly await this update? Anybody?



P.S.
A friend of mine who got a Tivo a few months ago just asked me where he can see how many hours are left for recording. I told him it's called a free space indicator and Tivo thinks were too stupid to handle that information. Does Tivo even care what features people want?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I can see why this may be good for families (I don't have kids), but I'm just wary about the PTC, that's all.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dt_dc said:


> KidZone to me as a consumer ... yawn.
> 
> But KidZone as a way to accelerate MVPD and cable deals ... a bit more interesting.


Yep, yep, yep. You and Zeo are right on, IMHO.

It seems this board is full of people who have done extensive market research and determined that this feature won't sell any TiVos. But it is likely that TiVo has done its own research, and can justify this investment. Not only could this feature help them get cable deals, but (as I pointed out in another post) it will give people another reason to choose TiVo over their MSO's generic offering. Keep in mind that TiVo will be just one DVR option on Comcast, and is likely to be the same on other MSO's networks, too.


----------



## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

TechDreamer said:


> I did some research and those ratings companies are a joke. I can't believe Tivo is risking a software update for this feature. Tivo ALWAYS screws up software updates. How many people will eagerly await this update? Anybody?
> 
> P.S.
> A friend of mine who got a Tivo a few months ago just asked me where he can see how many hours are left for recording. I told him it's called a free space indicator and Tivo thinks were too stupid to handle that information. Does Tivo even care what features people want?


Did you mention any of the alternative workarounds (suggestions, any of several HME apps, hacking the box, etc.) or did you just leave your friend hanging?


----------



## VinceA (May 13, 2002)

I've got kids (12 & 15) and I hate the PTC. I really don't want someone trying to filter TV at the source end. Allowing someone to filter it at the home level, I'm OK with since it doesn't infringe on my 'rights'. So, maybe the PTC finally found a way to get their agenda to just the people that actually care about their agenda. So, in my mind this is a good thing.


----------



## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

This feature is hardly a cost intensive thing.

That said.. I wish that tech companies generally and TIVO specifically would learn the biggest lesson from Steve Job's presentations.. 

".. and you can buy this at the Apple store today, starting at the end of my presentation.."

That alone has tremendous impact and makes things 'buzzworthy' cause they are immediately impacting the marketplace.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> I can see why this may be good for families (I don't have kids), but I'm just wary about the PTC, that's all.


I'm not a big fan of these kind of groups, either. But a lot of people do support them, and a lot of people do need some guidance when it comes to picking programming that is appropriate for children of certain ages (some parents, apparently, let their kids watch South Park, for example).

It appears that you can choose to schedule or not the various special recommendations, and can override any of it. The NYT article also said you could just start from scratch and build your own list. That seems like a pretty flexible package.

Now, they just need to build a password-protected PornZone, complete with internet downloads, and TiVo boxes will fly off the shelves.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

davezatz said:


> Someone just posted a comment on my site claiming this is the big announcement...
> http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/n...e-kidzone-parental-control-service-03010438/"
> 
> I hope they're wrong, because that is LAME LAME LAME. Then again maybe it'll move boxes and maybe I'd feel different as a parent. Nah... it's LAME!


Ah, TiVo really already has this. As a parent you control the wish lists and season passes. Thumb down shows that you don't want in the suggestions and then tell the kids they can only watch whats in the Now Playing list...or if your kids are good like mine they never want to watch anything other than whats in the NP list, and occasionally make requests to add items to it.


----------



## Trotts (Nov 4, 2005)

I *PRAY* that the KidZone thing is not the only announcement. With so many rumors in the wind, I had so many high expectations. I feel *SO* let down.


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by TechDreamer
> I did some research and those ratings companies are a joke. I can't believe Tivo is risking a software update for this feature. Tivo ALWAYS screws up software updates. How many people will eagerly await this update? Anybody?
> 
> ...





> Did you mention any of the alternative workarounds (suggestions, any of several HME apps, hacking the box, etc.) or did you just leave your friend hanging?


Actually I did get into full geek speak about all that stuff and was interupted with "Why do they make it so complicated".


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> Ah, TiVo really already has this.


Sure, but you're one of those weirdos who pays attention to what your kids watch. You probably do other crazy stuff like talk to your kids and spend time with them, too. There are a lot of people for whom the TV is a babysitter, and they might appreciate not having to think about it very much. If they can just flip a switch and get only shows that are deemed good for their children by some "authority," they can go back to their beer and WWF, safe in the knowledge that they are good parents.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Broadcasting & Cable article

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6312290.html?display=Breaking+News



> The makers of TiVo digital recorders Thursday are unveiling a parental-control function, KidZone, that will allow parents to limit recording to shows they deem family-friendly, essentially setting up their own family TiVo tier.
> (...)
> Parental-control technologies have become a hot topic post Janet Jackson, with broadcast and cable companies pushing ratings and blocking mechanisms as an alternative to government regulation.


----------



## cautionespn (Feb 21, 2003)

TiVo having anything to do with the PTC and their agenda will make me seriously reconsider my investment in their technology. If this turns out to be true there may be three TiVo's for sale on eBay in the near term.

The PTC is not about protecting children it is about controlling the American culture and molding it into the worldview of narrow-minded bigots.

This could cost TiVo as many customers as it gains them.


----------



## interactiveTV (Jul 2, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> umm, you do realize you choose to do this or not do this right? It is not censorship when you pick it for yourself.


The irony, Zeo, of that comment, can be found in the PTC FAQ. Obviously, the concept of "pick it for yourself" is not something they are happy with themselves.



PTC said:


> If you don't like something on television, why don't you just change the channel?
> 
> Merely changing the channel is essentially to accept what is on that channel, and admit powerlessness to change what is on one's own television. To be forced to change the channel is to accept the loss of additional stations to unhealthy content and to expect similar material to one day appear on the next channel





ZeoTiVo said:


> Don't know much about either group but what this really does is let TiVo show again how they can HELP the cable companies by heading off this whole a la carte pricing thing the groups initially were seeking as a way to make sure only "family" entertainment was available.


I guess the objection some have -- or maybe the concern -- is that by parterning with the PTC, Tivo is adding legitimacy to the PTC, giving it a status that some people, including me, don't believe it should have. As one of the two "rating systems" Tivo is including, the PTC immediately gets a stamp of approval of sorts.

Responsible for, according to one source, about 99% of ALL the complaints made to the FCC in 2003, the PTC makes lots of hay from very little, IMO.

There are PLENTY of reasons why Tivo should be avoiding the PTC.

1) Their "studies" are not. A REAL, INDEPENDENT study doesn't start with a conclusion and then construct to prove it. PTC does that.

2) the PTC has a specific political agenda. Agree or not with the politics, it's always dangerous waters to jump in with a group aligned in such a way. The Conservative Victory Committee which Bozell launched works closely with PTC often choosing the same targets.

3) There are other groups to choose from.

Personally, I think the PTC is a horrible choice. Beyond the extremely homogenous nature of the organziation, Tivo shouldn't be adding a stamp of approval to a vocal minority with doubtful expertise and a relatively clear political and religious agenda.

Regardless of TV standards -- and I find most of Europe's to be more "normal" than the stupid standards used here (no sexuality or nudity but rampant violence) -- this "study" alone makes me cringe: http://www.parentstv.org/PTC/publications/reports/religionstudy/main.asp

let me quote:

*According to a 2003 Harris Poll, 90 percent of Americans believe in God and 80 percent of those polled believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Though portrayals of religion have increased over the past six years, they still do not reflect the importance of the topic or the breadth of interest in it, as evidenced by the recent success of both films (The Passion) and books (The Purpose Driven Life) with religious subject matter*

I'm sorry. Tivo should be avoiding these guys. I don't want a ratings system partially based on the portrayal of "religion" (read: Christian as NO other religions are mentioned, referenced, referred to, etc).

The press call was silly and the news is terrible. Please get rid of the PTC.

_ITV


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

This "Feature" is not about keeping kids safe. This is pure conservative agenda pushing. Everybody needs to get on Google and start reading about these so called ratings agencies.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

lajohn27 said:


> That said.. I wish that tech companies generally and TIVO specifically would learn the biggest lesson from Steve Job's presentations..
> 
> ".. and you can buy this at the Apple store today, starting at the end of my presentation.."
> 
> That alone has tremendous impact and makes things 'buzzworthy' cause they are immediately impacting the marketplace.


" ... and you (MVPDs like Cox and Time Warner) can make a deal with Tivo _today_ to start offering KidZone to your customers soon, which you can announce before more a la carte and indecency legislation / regulation is introduced"

http://today.reuters.com/business/n..._RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-MEDIA-FCC-CABLE-DC.XML
http://today.reuters.com/investing/...0228:MTFH41614_2006-02-28_17-12-06_N2872505:1
http://www.njtelecomupdate.com/lenya/telco/live/tb-EWBX1140190946927.html
http://www.njtelecomupdate.com/lenya/telco/live/tb-MWJE1141162289209.html

Etc ...


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Apparently this thread is turning into a sort of Spanish Inquisition.


----------



## W Auggie H (Oct 11, 2001)

TiVo's detailed info is up: http://www.tivo.com/1.2.17.asp


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

If you want a article that sums up the PTC and how they work just read this article.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

VinceA said:


> I think we're all getting jaded around here. The initial posting says "important" which KidZone would be to a certain segment of society. We've seen a number of new posters wander through here asking for something akin to the rumored KidZone.
> 
> Just prepare for something 'important' to someone other than yourself and maybe you won't get so depressed.


You can argue semantics of important, I can say almost nobody in the world views this revealation as important, and that is why it is one more bad mis-step in the history of TiVo.

How TiVo has managed to exist in spite of itself is an amazing story that continues to boggle my mind. It is definately a testament to the signular greatness of their software, because they continue to do everything they can to hurt themselves. And I don't mean that having a kid service is somehow wrong, or will hurt their image.. I just mean it is completely mis-guided and a waste of resources.

It is like announcing a Glove with 7 fingers on it... Great you made something new, but nobody wants it or needs it.


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

How come Tivo considers this a major announcement, but yet has said little about the Series 3? We have been left swinging in the wind regarding Series 3 info and now Tivo gets excited about some stupid kid thing? I am really starting to wonder about the agenda of this new CEO. I am a total left winger, so I am biased, but this right wing religous stuff is so out of control. I thought the one year mandatory subscription thing pissed me off, but this just makes my blood boil.

TIVO HAS OFFICAILLY JUMPED THE SHARK.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> Yep, yep, yep. You and Zeo are right on, IMHO.
> 
> It seems this board is full of people who have done extensive market research and determined that this feature won't sell any TiVos. But it is likely that TiVo has done its own research, and can justify this investment. Not only could this feature help them get cable deals, but (as I pointed out in another post) it will give people another reason to choose TiVo over their MSO's generic offering. Keep in mind that TiVo will be just one DVR option on Comcast, and is likely to be the same on other MSO's networks, too.


I will take my market research track record over TiVos 

The cable is the only potentially legitimate angle to this entire thing.. Thinking this is somehow going to move units is incredibly naive. If TiVo has market research to the contrary, it would not suprise me, as I have had a TiVo since the beginning and have seen every mis-step along the way.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

:down: :down: :down: to anything that legitmizies such a horrible organization like the PTC. 

I know that stock talk is banned, but I'm seriously considering selling my shares. I am exteremly disappointed that Tivo would go in this direction. The PTC isn't about "choice" they are about censorship.


----------



## cautionespn (Feb 21, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> :down: :down: :down: to anything that legitmizies such a horrible organization like the PTC.
> 
> I know that stock talk is banned, but I'm seriously considering selling my shares. I am exteremly disappointed that Tivo would go in this direction. The PTC isn't about "choice" they are about censorship.


I just let TiVo know that it is my intention to do the exact same thing. I am honestly shocked that *any* company would pander to a group like the PTC.


----------



## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

cautionespn said:


> TiVo having anything to do with the PTC and their agenda will make me seriously reconsider my investment in their technology. If this turns out to be true there may be three TiVo's for sale on eBay in the near term.
> 
> The PTC is not about protecting children it is about controlling the American culture and molding it into the worldview of narrow-minded bigots.
> 
> This could cost TiVo as many customers as it gains them.


I agree. I like the idea of having a method to sheild kids from stuff parents don't want them to watch. I don't have kids, but :up: to Tivo for trying.

I have a BIG PROBLEM with them dealing with the PTC. They are to far slanted for the average person.

Ask anyone who was a wrestling fan a few years back. The PTC started a war with the then WWF. They went to extreme methods to put them out of business. They went after big advertisers and lied to them. The PTC was sued by the WWF and settled out of court(I think) for big money. The damage was done however, the WWE lost a lot of ads and has not really recovered(not to say their current product does not suck).

Anything that comes out the the PTC is suspect. I would not trust anything that they said.


----------



## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

As much as I dislike the PTC, I do think this is an excellent PR move for TiVo, and also a very useful feature for end users. From a PR perspecitive, TiVo has now put themselves into a position where they can be used as quote material for any news article talking about the whole (overblown, political, stupid) 'indecency' debate. I can see little phrases working their way into non-TiVo related articles, which is GREAT exposure for TiVo...

On the feature front, I think the detractors need to look at the feature list. You can define your own list, and not rely on the PTC's "what's good for America" list of approved shows. 

I think more useful is the ability to separate the kids shows from the parent's shows. I assume that means the kids won't see things in NPL. I'm sure there are parents that would like to record things that they don't even want the kids to know about - even the titles in NPL (and descriptions) would be considered non-kid-friendly. I remember an uproar around here when there was a Yellow Star showcase for the "40 year old Virgin". This could avoid those kind of issues...

I would like to see TiVo partner with other organizations, though, to create additional sources of "good lists" of children's programming... Without the political/religious slant. EDIT - I'm not familiar with commonsense.org which is also a partner in this - does anyone have an opinion on these guys? I like what I see on their website, at least at first glance...

But I think they're on the right path - it's yet another infrastructure-related feature that non-TiVo DVRs would have difficulty duplicating...


Jeff


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

W Auggie H said:


> TiVo's detailed info is up: http://www.tivo.com/1.2.17.asp


this is the best line in that...

COMING SOON! TiVo® KidZone will be included as part of the standard TiVo service, available to all new and existing subscribers with a TiVo® Series2 box beginning mid-2006!

its not ready yet? apple had a big important "fun" announcement the other day, sure nothing was fun about the products they announced, but they had them ready to go when it was over...

and yes, im complaining that a service i dont want and would never use wont be available till "mid-2006"...HA!...."mid-2006" is going to be huge for tivo


----------



## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

interactiveTV said:


> I'm sorry. Tivo should be avoiding these guys. I don't want a ratings system partially based on the portrayal of "religion" (read: Christian as NO other religions are mentioned, referenced, referred to, etc).
> 
> The press call was silly and the news is terrible. Please get rid of the PTC.


This makes me glad I have a Series 1. No free "upgrade" for me. At one time I thought I would be one of the very first Series 3 buyers but I'm going to have to rethink that.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Dish Network just recently released a new "family" package as well...


The ones that really interest me are the cable companies that haven't started ADS (digital simulcast) yet.

For DBS and ADS (analog digital simulcast) cable plants (which Comcast and Time Warner have been actively rolling out) ... a Family Tier is not a big deal. You have to modify some contracts with content providers (channels) but otherwise ... everything is allready set up.

However, when cable companies like Cox and Insight which have _not_ started ADS rollout yet announce family tiers ... it makes me take notice. For those cable companies ... it takes $$$ and head-end upgrades to start offering family tiers. Admittedly, this was $$$ they were planning on spending some time in the forseeable future to implement ADS. But ... they weren't spending it yet. They weren't doing it yet.

When companies spend $$$ and significantly change / accelerate their plans for something ... it makes me notice and realize there's alot at play.


----------



## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

I wonder if KidZone can be used to separate his/her programming. Just open it up for everything, but use it to separate recordings for two different people in the household?

(And I share the general revulsion of any relationship of TiVo with PTC.)


----------



## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

This is very good news, in that it could inspire the next generation of TiVo hackers.

s.


----------



## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

I wonder if this will let my kids MRV kid shows from another unit without my password?


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Scott Atkinson said:


> This is very good news, in that it could inspire the next generation of TiVo hackers.


LOL


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

A lot of people overreacting about the PTC thing. It's only one partner and there will be others. There's no one going to be forced to have anything to do with PTC. It's a mirror image of the people complaining about "left wing bias" on the Rocketboom downloads. No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their will. Threaten to take your business elsewhere if you must, just do it already and stop boring us with the threats. These leftwing theatrics are frankly every bit as tedious as the rightwing theatrics. At least with KidZone parents won't have an excuse anymore to complain about TV; let's not have to put up with people complaining about PTC or KidZone instead. Just get over it already. You don't have to use the d_mned thing if you don't want to.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> A lot of people overreacting about the PTC thing. It's only one partner and there will be others. There's no one going to be forced to have anything to do with PTC. It's a mirror image of the people complaining about "left wing bias" on the Rocketboom downloads.


Umm, I don't think so. Rocketboom does not make the claims the PTC does nor are they in the business of telling people what they should watch. There is nothing wrong with the idea of the PTC, but for them to masquerade like they do and then commit illegal acts, it just makes me sick that TiVo would align themselves with such a coorperation.


----------



## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

I've never understood why the PTC hates Cold Case. 

I find it one of the most moral shows on tv, showing the pain, suffering and loss of all involved in the story and where the bad guys always get their's in the end.

I guess that's just a show for Satan worshipping Spawn.


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> I wonder if KidZone can be used to separate his/her programming. Just open it up for everything, but use it to separate recordings for two different people in the household?
> 
> (And I share the general revulsion of any relationship of TiVo with PTC.)


Those are good ideas. I would like to see if this so called "feature" could be used to implement other zones we really want. I would love to be able to keep my Playboy channel recordings in the "PLayZone". Tivo should trademark that name and get viewing recomendations from the "Single guy with no kids but girlfriend is nosy council".


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Dmon4u said:


> the bad guys always get their's in the end


Well from _that_ description I could see the PTC having a problem ...


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> A lot of people overreacting about the PTC thing. It's only one partner and there will be others. There's no one going to be forced to have anything to do with PTC. It's a mirror image of the people complaining about "left wing bias" on the Rocketboom downloads. No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their will. Threaten to take your business elsewhere if you must, just do it already and stop boring us with the threats. These leftwing theatrics are frankly every bit as tedious as the rightwing theatrics. At least with KidZone parents won't have an excuse anymore to complain about TV; let's not have to put up with people complaining about PTC or KidZone instead. Just get over it already. You don't have to use the d_mned thing if you don't want to.


The Tivo CEO is making a presentation with the PTC and Tivo thinks this is very important and therefore I think it is very important that we show our displeasure.


----------



## cautionespn (Feb 21, 2003)

dmdeane said:


> A lot of people overreacting about the PTC thing. It's only one partner and there will be others. There's no one going to be forced to have anything to do with PTC. It's a mirror image of the people complaining about "left wing bias" on the Rocketboom downloads. No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their will. Threaten to take your business elsewhere if you must, just do it already and stop boring us with the threats. These leftwing theatrics are frankly every bit as tedious as the rightwing theatrics. At least with KidZone parents won't have an excuse anymore to complain about TV; let's not have to put up with people complaining about PTC or KidZone instead. Just get over it already. You don't have to use the d_mned thing if you don't want to.


Ahh yes. I certainly won't use this feature, but the point is that the PTC advocates government censorship of the airwaves and wants the FCC to *ONLY* allows programming that is "approved" by the PTC. TiVo is now actively providing legitimacy to the PTC and their agenda. My dollars won't go to that and I will voice my displeasure about it. This has nothing to do with left-wing/right-wing. It has everything to do with the stated goal of an organization being anti-thetical to my own view of America (a place of *freedom* ). Is this particular feature something one can "choose" to use? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that this is a part of the PTC's strategy to reach their openly-stated goal of "cleaning up the airwaves" via FCC censorship. That's un-American as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

So, when do they link up with the Pat Robertson and the 700 Club ? 

There are many shows that don't meet their standards !

Perhaps they can have programming of approved shows from all major religious and interest groups ?


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

rainwater said:


> Umm, I don't think so. Rocketboom does not make the claims the PTC does nor are they in the business of telling people what they should watch. There is nothing wrong with the idea of the PTC, but for them to masquerade like they do and then commit illegal acts, it just makes me sick that TiVo would align themselves with such a coorperation.


So don't avail yourself of PTC's services. TiVo is no more forcing you to use PTC than they were forcing anyone to watch Rocketboom.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> So don't avail yourself of PTC's services. TiVo is no more forcing you to use PTC than they were forcing anyone to watch Rocketboom.


I am paying for the TiVo service and since TiVo is the one aligning with the PTC, the only solution is to cancel your service. I'm not saying I would do that, but that is how you can voice your displeasure. TiVo is legitimizing a horrible corporation that advocates censorship for everyone (not just kids). That is not what I signed up for when I got my TiVo service.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

cautionespn said:


> Ahh yes. I certainly won't use this feature, but the point is that the PTC advocates government censorship of the airwaves and wants the FCC to *ONLY* allows programming that is "approved" by the PTC. TiVo is now actively providing legitimacy to the PTC and their agenda. My dollars won't go to that and I will voice my displeasure about it. This has nothing to do with left-wing/right-wing. It has everything to do with the stated goal of an organization being anti-thetical to my own view of America (a place of *freedom* ). Is this particular feature something one can "choose" to use? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that this is a part of the PTC's strategy to reach their openly-stated goal of "cleaning up the airwaves" via FCC censorship. That's un-American as far as I'm concerned.


PTC can engage in whatever fantasy they like. They aren't going to impose their views on anyone, and this KidZone feature shuts them up more effectively than a lot of people whinging about their strongarm tactics. They are being given a chance to tell people what is "safe" for kids - let's see how many people really want PTC to offer them this "service". Imagining that this is somehow empowering PTC to impose their censorship on the rest of us, is frankly paranoid and delusional. Ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> PTC can engage in whatever fantasy they like. They aren't going to impose their views on anyone, and this KidZone feature shuts them up more effectively than a lot of people whinging about their strongarm tactics. They are being given a chance to tell people what is "safe" for kids - let's see how many people really want PTC to offer them this "service". Imagining that this is somehow empowering PTC to impose their censorship on the rest of us, is frankly paranoid and delusional. Ain't gonna happen.


your right, i wonder if tivo will ever put out the stats of how many people actually take advantage of this "feature" after its been out for awhile...


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

rainwater said:


> I assume the poster is paying for the TiVo service and since TiVo is the one aligning with the PTC, the only solution is to cancel your service. I'm not saying I would do that, but that is how you can voice your displeasure. TiVo is legitimizing a horrible corporation that advocates censorship for everyone (not just kids). That is not what I signed up for when I got my TiVo service.


Your time and money would be better spent making your views felt to Congress, not TiVo. TiVo doesn't pass any laws nor does TiVo control the FCC.


----------



## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> Imagining that this is somehow empowering PTC to impose their censorship on the rest of us, is frankly paranoid and delustional. Ain't gonna happen.


I'm not so sure. Giving them more power is a bad thing. Puting them on Exile Island is a good thing.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> Imagining that this is somehow empowering PTC to impose their censorship on the rest of us, is frankly paranoid and delusional. Ain't gonna happen.


Uh. It is happening starting this summer according to TiVo. It's only optional, and I can't imagine it being used very much, but it is happening. I have no problem with TiVo offering to suggest kid safe programming, but there are many much more legitimate services they could of used besides the PTC.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> Your time and money would be better spent making your views felt to Congress, not TiVo. TiVo doesn't pass any laws nor does TiVo control the FCC.


So Congress forced TiVo to create a partnership with the PTC?


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

TechDreamer said:


> The Tivo CEO is making a presentation with the PTC and Tivo thinks this is very important and therefore I think it is very important that we show our displeasure.


By all means voice your displeasure. But people here are complaing about *political* issues that TiVo has no control over. Most of the energy being wasted by hurling abuse at TiVo would be better spent in ordinary political activity directed at affecting Congress and the FCC.


----------



## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

rainwater said:


> So Congress forced TiVo to create a partnership with the PTC?


No, but they have power

FCC complaints



> Thierer points out that upwards of 99% of the broadcast indecency complaints received by the FCC have come from campaigns generated by a single advocacy group


I wonder what group he is talking about????


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> Your time and money would be better spent making your views felt to Congress, not TiVo. TiVo doesn't pass any laws nor does TiVo control the FCC.


We lost Congress, the FCC and now apparently Tivo to the Right Wing business interests a long time ago. Lobbyists write the laws. They actually write the bills presented in Congress. The only power we have left is in the marketplace and now it seems were losing that.


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

The sky is falling! Soon we will be forced to watch pop over commercials over right-wing propoganda that will delete itself in two hours and not allow us to copy it to your computer. TiVo's will now be reporting back our viewing habits directly to our permanent record while seeking to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

I can't wait for all the posts that are sure to come from new members. What joy.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> By all means voice your displeasure. But people here are complaing about *political* issues that TiVo has no control over. Most of the energy being wasted by hurling abuse at TiVo would be better spent in ordinary political activity directed at affecting Congress and the FCC.


Political issues? The PTC has gotten in trouble plenty of times doing things that are illegal and/or questionable. That has nothing to do with politics. TiVo is the one that decided to partner with them, not Congress.


----------



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> The sky is falling! Soon we will be forced to watch pop over commercials over right-wing propoganda that will delete itself in two hours and not allow us to copy it to your computer. TiVo's will now be reporting back our viewing habits directly to our permanent record while seeking to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
> 
> I can't wait for all the posts that are sure to come from new members. What joy.


You don't think Tivo would be going crazy with pop over commercials if they could? Thankfully the "Sky is falling" crowd shows up when Tivo does something stupid and we get to knock some sense in them.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> I keep coming back to that, too. For a company that has started to get a reputation for promising things and not delivering (whether justified or not) it seems kind of self-defeating to try to generate a bunch of buzz over a product that they can't market or sell for another three or four months.


OK I got a new idea on this... they need to get the service out to beta testers and instead of doing damage control and playing catch up after the inevitable leak, they want to get ahead of that and make the announcement now.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TechDreamer said:


> How come Tivo considers this a major announcement, but yet has said little about the Series 3? We have been left swinging in the wind regarding Series 3 info and now Tivo gets excited about some stupid kid thing? I am really starting to wonder about the agenda of this new CEO. I am a total left winger, so I am biased, but this right wing religous stuff is so out of control. I thought the one year mandatory subscription thing pissed me off, but this just makes my blood boil.
> 
> TIVO HAS OFFICAILLY JUMPED THE SHARK.


for TiVo it had NOTHING to do with right wing religious stuff.
You must recall that these are the same groups that were calling for al la carte selling of channels so the "family value" groups could put out an approved list and effectively boycott certain channels. The cable companies were not wanting to do this at all as it screws up their business model.

Rogers (CEO of TiVo) agenda is to show how he can help the cable Companies/broadcasters by doing the filtering at the house and thus let the broadcasters continue as they do now.

and the help is now in the form of shooting any legislation down on al la carte or censoring at a national level by giving the option "If you do not want to see all that stuff *then buy a TiVo *

seems like a smart plan by Roger's to make lots of different groups happy.

now as to it being an important anouncement - well it was not so important to me who was hoping for Download Content deals or a else a deal with TWC for TiVo software. I have kids and will use the feature on one TiVo in our house but for now - back to work for me - nothing here to see.


----------



## Trotts (Nov 4, 2005)

Test said:


> your right, i wonder if tivo will ever put out the stats of how many people actually take advantage of this "feature" after its been out for awhile...


I remember after the Superbowl/Janet Jackson incident occurred, TiVo announced that the wardrobe malfunction was the most watched or most rewound moment on TiVos. This made everyone so shocked that TiVo was monitoring this kind of stuff. Well, considering this moment was the most watched on TiVo, it's not too far of a cry to say that most people liked watching it. Ironic that the most complained about moment on TV to the FCC was this same exact event. It would be interesting to see the stats on how few people actually use this service.

Another interesting tidbit is to compare the Most Recorded Shows on TiVo & PTC's Best & Worst Family Shows . Almost every one of the most Recorded Shows is on the PTC's Worst show list, while it's hard to find one of Best Family Shows on the Most Recorded list - in fact, I couldn't find ANY!

Scratch that, just American Idol

For Worst Shows that were Most Recorded there is:
Desperate Housewives
Grey's Anatomy
CSI
Law & Order: Special Victims
Two & a Half Men
NCIS
Family Guy
The O.C.
Boston Legal
Without a Trace

It goes on and on!


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> OK I got a new idea on this... they need to get the service out to beta testers and instead of doing damage control and playing catch up after the inevitable leak, they want to get ahead of that and make the announcement now.


That is a strong possibility. The benefit-of-the-doubt-giving part of me thinks this factor, plus a fairly long string of announcements over the next couple of months, might be the reason for the timing of the announcement.

The cynical part of me notes that jury selection in the Echostar suit is next Monday, and the trial starts three weeks later. The trial takes place in east Texas. Being seen as family-centric and traditional-values oriented is never bad in Texas.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Trotts said:


> For Worst Shows that were Most Recorded there is:
> Desperate Housewives
> Grey's Anatomy
> CSI
> ...


I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that those shows are appropriate for young children?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that those shows are appropriate for young children?


The point isn't that the PTC doesn't want children to watch those shows. The point is that they don't want _anyone_ to watch those shows. They complain to the FCC, the Networks, and the advertisers to try to get those shows off the air, for their own political and religious reasons.


----------



## Trotts (Nov 4, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that those shows are appropriate for young children?


The point is that people are recording shows the PTC consider the WORST. It would be one thing if people were recording "family friendly" shows and were looking for an easier way to do it, but according to TiVo's own research, they're not recording these shows. PTC is trying to get people to stop watching the WORST shows, yet they partner with TiVo, the company that helps people record the WORST shows.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

interactiveTV said:


> The irony, Zeo, of that comment, can be found in the PTC FAQ. Obviously, the concept of "pick it for yourself" is not something they are happy with themselves.


 yep, I am sure PTC would rather just have direct control of broadcast content directly. I find the group stupid and heavy handed in their approach just like everyone else.

my comment though is not that the kidzone is optional (which it is anyway) but that you can use Kidzone and put your own shows in it - which Is how I will use it, With my own brain and sense of values. 
Yet more irony is I will make sure such "family value" shows as the 700 club are blocked from ever being seen by my kids. Much like I do now by deselecting those channels altogether on my TiVo DVRs 



> I guess the objection some have -- or maybe the concern -- is that by parterning with the PTC, Tivo is adding legitimacy to the PTC, giving it a status that some people, including me, don't believe it should have. As one of the two "rating systems" Tivo is including, the PTC immediately gets a stamp of approval of sorts.


 yes that is a legitimate concern. My speculation still though is that Roger's did the deal with Devil(PTC)  to get them off the FCC and cable company backs so Rogers has some more pull with the FCC and cable companies.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

A couple of things...

First, as long as KidsZone is optional I don't see any problem with it. Parents will still have the ability to control their childrens viewing habits as before. PTC may be an organization with an agenda outside of protecting children, but then again many corporations have interests other than what they profess.

Second, this KidsZone story came out yesterday didn't it? Why was it news? What is so great about it? TiVo has been spinning it's wheels working on KidsZone when suggestions that would increase sales fall on deaf ears. Coorperative sheduling would encourage additional sales by being able to automatically address conflicts between two or more TiVo's. 

"Have conflicts, buy another and they'll work together to eliminate conflicts!"

That's only my favorite, I'm sure others have favorites of their own, such as a Netflix arrangement for downloadable movies, accesories for the Series 2 other than a wireless G adapter they can't keep in stock or a series 3 that keeps gettign put off.


----------



## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that those shows are appropriate for young children?


No, it means we are all evil and are going to h*ll


----------



## mrpope (Jan 13, 2006)

wasn't there a kidzone feature on the first tivo? i had one of the first philips one, and i'm pretty sure there was a kidzone filter, didn't block out channels, but it was called kidzone? right?


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

> I guess the objection some have -- or maybe the concern -- is that by parterning with the PTC, Tivo is adding legitimacy to the PTC, giving it a status that some people, including me, don't believe it should have. As one of the two "rating systems" Tivo is including, the PTC immediately gets a stamp of approval of sorts.


How many people / groups / organizations are going to have the time / resources to maintain a rating system / list?

I think Tivo should let anyone who will commit to doing so have at it. Parents get to choose which (if any) stamp they want ... or roll their own. Heck if American Family Association, Clear-TV, Americans for Responsible Television or any of the other groups want to be on the list fine ... have at it. As long as they promise to maintain / update / keep current their "list" / "ratings" / whatever ... have at it. If O'Reilly / Fox / Murdoch want theirs ... fine have at it. If parents want a crutch let them choose whichever cruth they want.

Ok, Tivo should probably refuse NAMBLA from having a "KidZone" but otherwise ... let these groups come up with their lists and let parents looking for a crutch choose the one they want.

Otherwise you're always going to have some group complaining. This way ... "shut up and make your own list".


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> The point isn't that the PTC doesn't want children to watch those shows. The point is that they don't want _anyone_ to watch those shows. They complain to the FCC, the Networks, and the advertisers to try to get those shows off the air, for their own political and religious reasons.


So what? In this country the airwaves are considered a public resource and as such are regulated by the government. Also in this country people have the right to express their views and lobby the government to act in accordance with their interests. I don't agree with all of them, but I believe they have a right to their opinions and their efforts to shape the country's public policy. And a lot of people do agree with them.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

davezatz said:


> OK I got a new idea on this... they need to get the service out to beta testers and instead of doing damage control and playing catch up after the inevitable leak, they want to get ahead of that and make the announcement now.


give the man a Cigar, the TCF will now have to suffer this crap of needing to preannounce ahead of Beta leaks. damn NDA breakers.

adn you know what really scares me - this is not even the /. backlash when they link to this thread.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> So what? In this country the airwaves are considered a public resource and as such are regulated by the government. Also in this country people have the right to express their views and lobby the government to act in accordance with their interests. I don't agree with all of them, but I believe they have a right to their opinions and their efforts to shape the country's public policy. And a lot of people do agree with them.


They also have the right to lie and cost corporations money based on those lies. That is where the PTC comes in. If you think that falls under the right to express your views, then you are mistaken.


----------



## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

I wonder if TiVo might have promised this feature to Comcast as part of the deal to get Comcast. When Comcast starts offering boxes with TiVo software they will be able to tell the PTC to jump in a lake. 

This may be the feature that gets other cable companies to sign up. It will be very hard for the PTC to get legislation passed that regulates cable if cable offers every user compete control at their end.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I can understand why some are upset about TiVo's connection to PTC.

But I don't understand the ridicule of KidZone and the disappointment over the announcement. I think it could well be a good feature, that could help sell subs.

I know I've seen many of people here in this forum ask for a way to filter out adult content, and I too wouldn't mind having this functionality.

But the vitriol in this thread is amazing, you'd think TiVo is forcing you to use it.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I can understand why some are upset about TiVo's connection to PTC.
> 
> But I don't understand the ridicule of KidZone and the disappointment over the announcement. I think it could well be a good feature, that could help sell subs.
> 
> ...


I think the way it was announced was wrong. They should of included KidZone with some other announcements. Otherwise, this was not a big announcement for 99% of TiVos users. Besides their connection with the PTC, KidZone is a interesting option for parents. But the partnerships and the way it was introduced has upset a lot of people.


----------



## Martyp (Jan 6, 2004)

dmdeane said:


> Actually that service has been around for a few years, and was a flop. It was recently "relaunched":
> 
> http://www.siliconbeat.com/entries/...sney_tries_again_to_deliver_to_your_home.html


It will flop again . Lets see pay a few hundred for the player then pay for the movies . I can see how I would save over a reg dvd rental


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I don't see what made this a big announcement, other than the hype buildup here. It was just a regular pressrelease about a new initiative. NOWHERE other than in the commentary of the pressrelease were the words "major" or "big" used.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I don't see what made this a big announcement, other than the hype buildup here. It was just a regular pressrelease about a new initiative. NOWHERE other than in the commentary of the pressrelease were the words "major" or "big" used.


Ageed. Except that normal press releases would simply come via the PR representative with no fanfare. The whole announcement at "The Museum of Television & Radio in New York City" appeared to hint at something larger.


----------



## shady (May 31, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I don't see what made this a big announcement, other than the hype buildup here. It was just a regular pressrelease about a new initiative. NOWHERE other than in the commentary of the pressrelease were the words "major" or "big" used.


Agreed, It's the OP's fault.

I think the OP should buy every participant in this thread a very large drink


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

rainwater said:


> They also have the right to lie and cost corporations money based on those lies. That is where the PTC comes in. If you think that falls under the right to express your views, then you are mistaken.


What are we talking about? The WWE thing? So five or six years ago they got carried away with themselves. IIRC, they got the "smackdown" with a multi-million dollar settlement and having to make humiliating apologies to the WWE. Seems like justice was done.

But that was a few years ago, and I don't see what it has to do with them providing a list of family-frindly programming of which they do approve. Sure, the group doesn't have much credibility with you or me, but to the people with whom they do have credibility, it may be a valuable feature.


----------



## remotecontrol (Nov 5, 2004)

So Kidzone was the big announcement? Talk about a letdown.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I don't see what made this a big announcement, other than the hype buildup here. It was just a regular pressrelease about a new initiative. NOWHERE other than in the commentary of the pressrelease were the words "major" or "big" used.


Renting out a facility to "discuss important developments" with "special guests" announced via a pre-release is much more dramatic than how they introduced the online Yahoo services or upcoming support for PSP/iPod. If it had been a typical press release, I'm sure there'd be less discussion here.

If TiVo can tap into some of those 4 million tv-watchdog-group members to gain more subscribers, good for them. If they can use this to work more partnerships with cable companies, that's even better news. But I was definitely expecting something more exciting given how they chose to present this new initiative.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

some more from cable ...

Broadcasting & Cable


> This is not about blocking shows, this is about finding the best shows, says Rogers, who thinks the KidZone functionality will be a selling point as TiVo continues its efforts to license its software for use in cable set-tops.
> (...)
> Susan Sachs (_COO of Common Sense Media_) adds that her group is currently in discussions with cable operators Time Warner and Comcast about providing similar family friendly programming information for use in their program guides.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

The initiative in general is not a bad idea.

Announcing it in the way they did, like it was one of the most important things in Tivo history was dumb.

Aligning with the PTC in any way, shape, or form is a horrible horrible idea.

Anybody who gives the PTC "credibility" are uninformed and have been duped.

-smak-


----------



## interactiveTV (Jul 2, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> for TiVo it had NOTHING to do with right wing religious stuff.


 Well, I think speaking for Tivo's motivation is a little out of your job description. I do doubt that Tivo didn't CHOOSE the PTC based on its political and religious viewpoints but I assume that Tivo was very AWARE of them. I don't know WHY Tivo included the PTC. It seems unneccessary as launching the announcement with ONE filter would have been sufficient considering the feature isn't here yet and most likely months away.



ZeoTiVo said:


> ....seems like a smart plan by Roger's to make lots of different groups happy.


 What plan? You are making an assumption on Tivo's motivations here that I don't see. I see them launching a new feature. PERIOD. You are ascribing all kinds of other "plans" and motivations that don't seem to be explicitly stated.

Regardless of the benefit or need or demand for the feature, the association with PTC is a mistake in my opinion. It certainly overshadows the feature to many people and is a tacit approval by Tivo of what the PTC stands for, how it operates, and what it believes.

You can crow about the "smart plan" all you want, Tivo just walked into a minor firestorm of its own making that wasn't needed. Take the PTC off the announcement and look at how the reaction differs. NOW you have something different.

Dumb move, IMO.

_ITV


----------



## loganizzi (Aug 9, 2003)

Is this related to the new KidsZone announcement?

http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/tivos-parental-controls.html


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

loganizzi said:


> Is this related to the new KidsZone announcement?
> 
> http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/tivos-parental-controls.html


I think it is. It's funny at the end the show a picture of a DirecTiVo was shown, which would not be able to receive these feature. get rid of the DirecTiVo and I think TiVo has a great commercial targeted to parents.


----------



## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

If TiVo would expand their horizons beyond "family friendly", they could have a big money-maker here.

Contact every political party, religious denomination, and other special-interest group and offer them the chance to have their good/bad ratings available to TiVo users. Charge them a fee. All right-thinking people will sign up to use the appropriate filter and disturbing thoughts will never plague their households again.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TiVoOpsMgr chimes in...

http://www.zeigen.com/blog/?p=98



> Pony was heavily involved in this, and hes been chatting me up about it for months. (Hes off in New York today helping with the demos and press conference.) Believe me when I say that a lot of thought was put into the features, and the demo is killer. Im really excited that were doing this.
> 
> My team wasnt directly involved in this initiative  its more of a client change than an operations change, but well be involved in the Web changes. So although I didnt get to help design or deliver this project, as a new parent, Im happy weve bolstered our already really good parental controls with something special and unique.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

interactiveTV said:


> Well, I think speaking for Tivo's motivation is a little out of your job description. <snip>
> What plan? You are making an assumption on Tivo's motivations here that I don't see. I see them launching a new feature. PERIOD. You are ascribing all kinds of other "plans" and motivations that don't seem to be explicitly stated.


you just love to jump all over me and business plans. sorry this time it is explicitly stated by Roger's himself



dt_dc said:


> some more from cable ...
> 
> Broadcasting & Cable





> This is not about blocking shows, this is about finding the best shows, says Rogers, who thinks the KidZone functionality will be a selling point as TiVo continues its efforts to license its software for use in cable set-tops.
> (...)
> Susan Sachs (COO of Common Sense Media) adds that her group is currently in discussions with cable operators Time Warner and Comcast about providing similar family friendly programming information for use in their program guides.


and I already agreed with you about PTC. But it was a good favor to cable companies for Roger's to get the nutjobs off the FCC nad broadcasters back. I doubt Roger's will say that in a public quote though


----------



## dkroboth (Jan 25, 2002)

Looking at what the feature is described as, it appears to require a significant update to the client interface of TiVo. I doubt KidZone will be the _only_ GUI "feature" enabled by this update.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

CNET has posted a few pics:
http://news.com.com/2300-1025_3-6045231-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg


----------



## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

Some Irony and a question:

For a long time, groups like the PTC have been upset that various 'Cable' channels (with their evil shows) can come into your home even if you don't want them. Response - develop a way to get massive numbers of complaints from your group members filed with the Government and push both A La Carte or at least 'Family Packages'.

Now, suddenly, the public finds out that objectionable groups (like the PTC) will get into their homes through their TiVo. Response - ???


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Dmon4u said:


> Response - ???


I object to Donald Trump, but my girlfriend brings him into my home every week.

What can you do?


----------



## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

Don't worry ! 

When they moved his show to Monday, there were many that could not find him. The show came in 4th place.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Dmon4u said:


> Some Irony and a question:
> 
> For a long time, groups like the PTC have been upset that various 'Cable' channels (with their evil shows) can come into your home even if you don't want them. Response - develop a way to get massive numbers of complaints from your group members filed with the Government and push both A La Carte or at least 'Family Packages'.
> 
> Now, suddenly, the public finds out that objectionable groups (like the PTC) will get into their homes through their TiVo. Response - ???


the repsonse if only if you choose to use the list from PTC. It is a choice and only a choice and you have to actively make that choice. You can use Kid Zone and never give a second thought to PTC.

The irony is that all these PTC is bad postings are starting to use the same half truth twisted tactics to spread the fear of PTC 
while the actual full truth is * one list* of two and * you can even opt to not use either list * and instead decide all on your own what is best for your kids.

there is a real problem of TV having shows that are not age appropriate and they are on all the time amd many are cartoons which the kids do not get come in all sizes and age ranges now. I am perfectly fine with people wanting those shows as their choice. I laugh my ass off at SouthPark. I never want my 11 year old to see it. I jury rigged a kid zone as a TV upstairs that could only play TiVo's nopw playing list and whatever channel the TiVo was currently tuned to. The problem is that even cartoon network has cartoons on now I do not want my kids to see.

Kidzone lets me filter down to show level now and fix that last glitch in my jury rigged setup. It works for all :up:


----------



## interactiveTV (Jul 2, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the repsonse if only if you choose to use the list from PTC. It is a choice and only a choice and you have to actively make that choice. You can use Kid Zone and never give a second thought to PTC.
> 
> The irony is that all these PTC is bad postings are starting to use the same half truth twisted tactics to spread the fear of PTC
> while the actual full truth is * one list* of two and * you can even opt to not use either list * and instead decide all on your own what is best for your kids.


 How is it a "half-truth" that posters don't like the ASSOCIATION of Tivo with the PTC? One of two choices, one of 17, it doesn't matter, the association, the stamp of approval, the air of legitmacy exists.

As one of ONLY two, the stamp is even greater. As an "original" option (I imagine there could be more down the road), the stamp is even greater.

Whether I choose PTC or not, Tivo already has. That Tivo chose them AT ALL is an issue for me -- and appears to be so for some other posters.

I think everyone knows PTC is a CHOICE and the user can choose not to use the PTC filter. That doesn't give me any comfort considering TIVO CHOSE THEM.

I think it was a HORRIBLE choice. The "actual truth" is no one is "spread[ing] the fear of the PTC" but airing legitimate concerns and opinions.

The PTC is, IMO, a terrible organization that DOES believe it CENSORSHIP over choice (rid the channels of those programs is a STATED goal), does have a very narrow-minded view of what programs it likes (positive Christian content is a big one), and is run by a religious and political activist with an agenda.

Whether or not I choose to use PTC, Tivo already did and THAT is the problem.

Tivo, again, managed to screw something up. If Tivo didn't know the controversial nature of PTC, I'd be surprised. There are OTHER ways to offer filter lists. By partnering with PTC, Tivo managed to create a controversy with what I consider to be, otherwise, a relatively harmless and perhaps useful feature.

The irony is, Tivo made a BAD choice (in mine and some other's opinion) and whether consumers choose to use PTC or not, Tivo's choice is the main issue.

I imagine -- though it is an extreme example and not meant to compare PTC -- that if Tivo chose to partner with a white supremacist filter list you wouldn't be making the same arguement that consumers have a choice and must actively choose that list so what's the big deal.

Just as the PTC encourages -- 99% of all FCC complaints in 2003 -- its "members" (the membership number is WILDLY inflated, btw) to tell corporations of their unhappiness with the association with a specific TV show, maybe Tivo users should avail themselves of the same.

The association with the PTC is a mistake both from a affiliation standpoint as well as from PR. It created a minor firestorm here for what SHOULD be a laudable feature. That right there is another error. Sure, companies can't avoid controversy at all costs but this one was an easy one to avoid that wouldn't have hurt the product launch in any way.

_ITV


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

interactiveTV said:


> How is it a "half-truth" that posters don't like the ASSOCIATION of Tivo with the PTC?


and your half truth twisted is implying that is what I was replying to in my post.
I was not replying to that.

I was replying to someone who said PTC was getting into the home through the TiVo. It can only do that by an *active choice* on the part of the home in question.

I agree with those who object to the PTC as I find them an objectionable group who twist the means because they feel the end is justified.

I disagree with those who twist the actual use of Kidzone around into something that is forcing users to use the PTC because they feel the end result they want of TiVo dropping the PTC justifies it.

Since this is the SECOND time I have replied and stated I do not like the PTC I did not bother to read the rest of your post as it goes on about not liking the PTC and TiVo should drop them. You will not find me replying to those posts as that is an opinion and all are entitled to their own


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

interactiveTV said:


> The irony is, Tivo made a BAD choice (in mine and some other's opinion) and whether consumers choose to use PTC or not, Tivo's choice is the main issue.


No matter what TiVo does, some people will think it is a "BAD" choice. You say that, apart from the PTC, the feature is laudable. Others have called it stupid, a waste of resources, lame, and useless.

The fact is, we post on this board because we are highly opinionated and want other people to hear (and maybe respect) our opinions. But we are a very small sample that is not likely representative of a very large market TiVo is trying to reach.

Using the PTC list is going to piss off some people, and probably cost TiVo some subscriptions. They are aware of that. If they believe that, on balance, it will add more subscriptions that it costs them, then it is the right move.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> Using the PTC list is going to piss off some people, and probably cost TiVo some subscriptions. They are aware of that. If they believe that, on balance, it will add more subscriptions that it costs them, then it is the right move.


and if it helps them get a cable deal, I think the balance would be tipped way over.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> The fact is, we post on this board because we are highly opinionated and want other people to hear (and maybe respect) our opinions. But we are a very small sample that is not likely representative of a very large market TiVo is trying to reach.


True... And we have different perspecitives and objectives. What I might find interesting/exciting as a consumer of a certain demographic (the geeky male, non-stock owning, non-parent type) may have no similarity to other members and no correlation to what sells boxes amongst the broader population and facilitates partnerships.

I wonder if we should we tell TV Predictions Swann that this got a lot of press coverage unlike the V-day stunt that concerned him?


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I wonder if we should we tell TV Predictions Swann that this got a lot of press coverage unlike the V-day stunt that concerned him?


I was going to post something about that in the Swann-inspired thread. A search of Google news shows very wide coverage. I've also heard tell that it made a number of news broadcasts, as well. Apparently TiVo can still summon up some media interest when they want to.

On another note, did you notice the the PR only mentioned the $69.99 (i.e., 80-hour) TiVo? I wonder if the 40-hour box is gone for good?


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> I was going to post something about that in the Swann-inspired thread. A search of Google news shows very wide coverage. I've also heard tell that it made a number of news broadcasts, as well. Apparently TiVo can still summon up some media interest when they want to.
> 
> On another note, did you notice the the PR only mentioned the $69.99 (i.e., 80-hour) TiVo? I wonder if the 40-hour box is gone for good?


I have a few news email agents set up and there's been a ton of coverage. There will be more over the next few days as other outlets finish their stories or pick it up off the wire. I did notice the Sun Sentinel in south Florida had a headline that implied a whole new TiVo BOX though it was the same NYTimes story. Given some of the reactions to the PTC in this thread, I'll be curious to see if that angle makes it into the mainstream press.

I hadn't noticed the 80hr box... hm. Does that mean it's the only box they have left or it's the box they currently want to sell more of? Could draw different conclusions from that. Also will that '$69.99 after rebate' pricing even exist when this service ultimately rolls out in the summer? (Given those recent no-upfront hardware fee discussions...) It's a little early but this time next year they can't sell boxes with analog tuners - does that play into what stock is advertised?


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

After the press release yesterday I was sitting in a restaurant watching Cnn headline news. There was nothing about the TiVo announcement, but PTC was mentioned. There was no connection made to TiVo however.


----------



## interactiveTV (Jul 2, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> No matter what TiVo does, some people will think it is a "BAD" choice. You say that, apart from the PTC, the feature is laudable. Others have called it stupid, a waste of resources, lame, and useless.


 As I said, there can always be some controversy and companies shouldn't avoid it at any cost. That said, the ADDITION of PTC to this feature seems unneccessary. Announcing with only one "filter" would suffice to introduce the features.

Just because "some people will think it is a BAD choice" doesn't mean that it isn't. True, some people will always be upset but that doesn't mean there isn't legitimate concern here. Merely using the catch-all "some people" can be used to dismiss ANY complaint against ANY company regardless of merit.

Perhaps evaluating THIS case and THESE issues on their own rather than lumping it into a generic dismissal is more appropriate considering the nature of the PTC.

If Tivo aligned itself with a KKK filter -- again, extreme and not on par with the PTC -- would it still matter that it was a "small sample" finding issue?

Again, there was no NEED for tivo to CHOOSE PTC. It could have launched this product without it. We would then be discussing the merits of the FEATURE rather than the PARTNER. I think that's a PR mistake.

No one had issue with NetFlix (now dead) on a political or religious basis. The partnership (announced but never realized to fruition) was discussed on the basis of the FUNCTIONALITY and FEATURES (in theory).

I think Tivo's choice of PTC -- as one of two or one of a million -- is a mistake from both a corporate level and a PR level. I highly doubt it will lead to many sales of Tivos as the PTC is smaller than it makes itself out to be and the demographics don't fit all that well. I also doubt it would help ANY cable deal. Put it this way, I'd be unsure it even makes it into Comcast's STB. Considering the PTC has been VERY negative about Comcast's "Family Tier" there is no love lost between the two. It is COMPLETE speculation to believe Tivo can get ANY sort of positive response from MSOs based on its associate with PTC (the feature itself, YES, the PTC, no).

_ITV


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

interactiveTV said:


> As I said, there can always be some controversy and companies shouldn't avoid it at any cost. That said, the ADDITION of PTC to this feature seems unneccessary. Announcing with only one "filter" would suffice to introduce the features.
> _ITV


well I am willing to bet that anouncing with *only* one filter would have caused a ruckus as well.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well I am willing to bet that anouncing with *only* one filter would have caused a ruckus as well.


Why? Like was said, the lists are separate in the UI as some type of suggestions. I don't see why people would complain there is only one suggested list if it was from a reputable company.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

interactiveTV said:


> It is COMPLETE speculation to believe Tivo can get ANY sort of positive response from MSOs based on its associate with PTC (the feature itself, YES, the PTC, no).
> 
> _ITV


Well it is certain that Rogers could not state "We are helping the Cable Companies by getting the PTC off their back by giving them a place to filter based purely on their own agenda"

but those two groups were the ones that were being very vocal about getting the cable companies to move to A la carte. Seems more than a coincidence to me.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Why? Like was said, the lists are separate in the UI as some type of suggestions. I don't see why people would complain there is only one suggested list if it was from a reputable company.


I never implied any sort of logical arguing in these forums 

edit to add - but it would not be me arguing about only one list - in fact I would be asking for who else has a reputable list to use in the filter and if someone brought up the PTC I would reply they were not reputable 

actually in fact I would hope there was another list beside the two already mentioned - I am pretty much thinking I will be making my own list manually with this feature as it is.


----------



## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

Of course people are not responding to just the Kid Zone - PTC connection. Most of this is outrage and frustration being thrown back at the PTC for their activities in trying to eliminate or censor many many shows that most people watch every week (and not just Kids shows) and the fines the Government issues on their (since they make up nearly all of the complaints in any given year) behalf.

There seemed to be no method to counteract them other than continue to watch our shows. Meanwhile, they continue to attack. Now, with the TiVo - PTC connection, this may be the first and only chance that we get to fight back.

We can apply the same logic that the PTC uses - back at them. We can act just like them and follow their Moto - " It's in our house - We don't want it - We will complain ! They have their mitts into a product that sits in our very homes, even if we don't use it, we do not want it . You have been hearing our complaints. So will TiVo !


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Dmon4u said:


> There seemed to be no method to counteract them other than continue to watch our shows. Meanwhile, they continue to attack. Now, with the TiVo - PTC connection, this may be the first and only chance that we get to fight back.


you could write the FCC and your represenatives stating your opinion of the PTC and that you would feel best represented by the PTC having no influence on government decisions.

You could write letters to various news bodies outlining the situation

you could start your own list and perhaps get others to rally around it as an alternative.

you could stop using the TiVo and tell them exactly why.

Which would be most effective at blunting the PTC?


----------



## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> you could write the FCC and your represenatives stating your opinion of the PTC and that you would feel best represented by the PTC having no influence on government decisions.
> 
> You could write letters to various news bodies outlining the situation
> 
> ...


None of those !

TiVo with their new linkage to the PTC is the best way, because they (I'll give them credit) seem to care more about the public then any other organization mentioned. In this case they seem simply to be uneducated or uninformed about these censorship groups.

As far as starting a movement myself, who has the big money, backing or friends in the FCC that groups like the PTC have ?

As for dropping TiVo that solution may be mute within a year or less for me when FiOS Tv comes to town.

I'm sure there are a number of people who will dump TiVo on moral grounds because they don't want to be linked to censorship groups that remind one of places with similar groups in places like Iran in the Middle-East. I have begun to wonder, are we bringing more democracy to the Middle-East or is it the other way around and were becoming more like them ?


----------



## interactiveTV (Jul 2, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Well it is certain that Rogers could not state "We are helping the Cable Companies by getting the PTC off their back by giving them a place to filter based purely on their own agenda"
> 
> but those two groups were the ones that were being very vocal about getting the cable companies to move to A la carte. Seems more than a coincidence to me.


 OK, it seems more than a coincidence. Or maybe the two are not related at all.

To me, it seems like it would be harder to deal with MSOs with PTC involved, not easier. The PTC doesn't EVER get off anyone's back. Actually, the PTC is busy busting on Comcast about its "Family Tier." Never happy, never EVER going to stop. In order for the PTC to exist, it NEEDS a villan. The MSOs will always be one of those villans.

I don't see MSOs giving in so easily. Heck, the adult VOD revenues alone will ensure that. The PTC doesn't deal with grey, just black and white. So, it ain't EVER going to happen that the MSOs can make the PTC happy, Tivo or not. Better chance of bringing peace to the Middle East AND making Detroit a nice place to live.

Personally, I think Tivo is shooting themselves in the foot. There wasn't the need to partner with the PTC. It causes controversy and puts Tivo in bad company.

You can read the tea leaves all you want about how strategic this is. It's a wishful positive outlook. It's like being happy he's not snoring while the devil is sleeping in your bed.

Always look at the bright side of life...

_ITV


----------



## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

interactiveTV said:


> OK, it seems more than a coincidence. Or maybe the two are not related at all.
> 
> To me, it seems like it would be harder to deal with MSOs with PTC involved, not easier. The PTC doesn't EVER get off anyone's back. Actually, the PTC is busy busting on Comcast about its "Family Tier." Never happy, never EVER going to stop. In order for the PTC to exist, it NEEDS a villan. The MSOs will always be one of those villans.
> 
> ...


Thanks, ITV, I think you've stated this better than anyone else here.

While I won't be making use of the KidZone feature myself, I don't have any problems with Tivo spending some of their development resources on it, if they think it will be a useful feature that will sell more boxes.

Unfortunately, their partnership with PTC is so offensive to me that I will seriously reconsider buying any more Tivos, and will probably no longer recommend them to anyone else.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

interactiveTV said:


> To me, it seems like it would be harder to deal with MSOs with PTC involved, not easier.


Unless the MSO(s) asked specifically for the PTC to be involved.



> The PTC doesn't EVER get off anyone's back. Actually, the PTC is busy busting on Comcast about its "Family Tier." Never happy, never EVER going to stop.


Maybe not, but they look like hypocrites if Comcast deploys a PTC-endorsed product for "family friendly" television and they keep complaining. Comcast stands before the FCC and says, "What more can we do? We deployed a system that they endorsed and they're still not happy."


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

It just seems odd that Tivo, "TV your way" would have anything to do with the PTC who in their ideal world would have it "TV our way and only our way"

-smak-


----------



## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

smak said:


> It just seems odd that Tivo, "TV your way" would have anything to do with the PTC who in their ideal world would have it "TV our way and only our way"
> 
> -smak-


Yep. I certainly don't understand that relationship at all.


----------

