# Confused. Is it an Elite, XL4 or Premiere 4?



## overFEDEXed (Nov 11, 2002)

I called Tivo to do a change of ownership on an eBayed, LT HD.

The rep told me that in a month or two, Tivo was going to replace the XL4 with a "Premiere 4". He said that it would have four tuners and Moca but only a 500GB hard drive. He also said that *WE* could purchase it for $250. Isn't that the Q for RCN subscribers?

Are they going to offer the Elite/XL4 to us, with a 500GB hard drive, sell it for $250 and call it "Premiere 4"?

The rep said that they had a meeting about this two days ago and that they never told them NOT to tell any customers so.....

I have had Tivo's forever it seems and I have dealt with them many, many times but, this sounds strange to me. I'm sure that he has his facts mixed up but this is what he told me.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

That is the Q so maybe they mixed it up? I could potentially see it though if RCN needs more and they decide to jump up a tier to bring costs down.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That could be why they changed the name to XL4. They have a Premiere, a Premiere XL and a Premiere XL4. If they add a Premiere 4 then it will complete the line.

Dan


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## drebbe (Apr 11, 2012)

I was thinking the same thing. I presume this new model would also work with the IP STB that is to be released in the same time frame. Previously the IP STB was initially only going to work with the XL4 since the initial version of the software supporting the IP STB required one of the tuners in the XL4 to be dedicated to IP STB. By having the Premiere 4 TiVo will offer a lower cost entry point into this new paradigm of a single TiVo with extenders.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Oh jeez, all we needed was a 4th name for a 4-tuner product. lol.

Sounds possible I guess, but who knows.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> That could be why they changed the name to XL4. They have a Premiere, a Premiere XL and a Premiere XL4. If they add a Premiere 4 then it will complete the line.
> 
> Dan


So by calling it a Premiere 4 they would drop the THX certification to save some money plus save by cutting the storage by a quarter?

I still think 500GB is too small for a four tuner device.

I'm still hoping a six tuner S5 is announced for early next year. Then I can replace my Elites and use the six tuner box with IP STBs.


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## drebbe (Apr 11, 2012)

aaronwt said:


> I still think 500GB is too small for a four tuner device.


Anybody who has a 56TB MSS might have a slightly different perspective on what constitutes adequate storage capacity than most people.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Hardware is confirmed, via a spec sheet TiVo provided me, but I don't think they're ready to discuss price.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/new-tivo-premiere-4/


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

davezatz said:


> Hardware is confirmed, via a spec sheet TiVo provided me, but I don't think they're ready to discuss price.
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/new-tivo-premiere-4/


i hope this is not the way they are going to "fix" the tivo ip box tuner pool issue by saying that this "premiere" is needed for the ip box, not the two tuner premiere.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Hardware is confirmed, via a spec sheet TiVo provided me, but I don't think they're ready to discuss price.
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/new-tivo-premiere-4/


TiVo is scatterbrain with the Series 4, they need to plan better.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Philmatic said:


> TiVo is scatterbrain with the Series 4, they need to plan better.


Huh? Care to explain?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

drebbe said:


> Anybody who has a 56TB MSS might have a slightly different perspective on what constitutes adequate storage capacity than most people.


 And that's only half my available network storage.

But even with the two tuner DVRs and 160GB drives, I know several people with families that recently have been pissed about their DVR storage capacity since the Olympics has been on. Even though they all have two to five DVRs with 160GB or something larger, they have been complaining about not having enough space to record their normal programming and the Olympics.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Philmatic said:


> TiVo is scatterbrain with the Series 4, they need to plan better.





sbiller said:


> Huh? Care to explain?


They seem to be all over the place with the Premiere naming. It seems more confusing then ever. Especially when you factor in that some can only record from digital cable. I would think it's confusing for the average shopper.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> They seem to be all over the place with the Premiere naming. It seems more confusing then ever. Especially when you factor in that some can only record from digital cable. I would think it's confusing for the average shopper.


I don't know, its really only the (now renamed) Elite that really confused things. Otherwise with the new Premiere 4 their lineup falls into a nice 2x2 matrix


```
OTA capable           |
               Analog/Digital Cable  |  Digital Cable Only    
               2 Tuners              |  4 Tuners
             -------------------------------------------------
small HD     |      Premiere         |     Premiere 4        |
basic remote |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Big HD       |     Premiere XL       |    Premiere XL4       |
THX          |                       |                       |
glow remote  |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------
```
Where XL universally stands for big HD and THX, while '4' universally stands for four tuner and digital cable-only.

What TiVo probably needs to do is fix that basic idea up with marketing speak (not "small/big harddrive" but maybe "regular" and "extra large") and start putting a similar matrix on their packaging or as part of store displays to help people pick the right unit.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Aero 1 said:


> i hope this is not the way they are going to "fix" the tivo ip box tuner pool issue by saying that this "premiere" is needed for the ip box, not the two tuner premiere.


I dont think so. It was confirmed it will come to the two tuner premiere


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> I don't know, its really only the (now renamed) Elite that really confused things. Otherwise with the new Premiere 4 their lineup falls into a nice 2x2 matrix
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Fantastic chart. Thanks. One nit to add is the 'XL' boxes come with Glo Remotes instead of the basic TiVo Remote.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

So is the Premiere 4 THX certified? I would assume the hardware would be identical to the Q.
The PDF posted by Dave, does not show THX on the pictured unit.

According to the picture on the TiVo Q brochure, it has the THX logo on the bottom right of the unit, although nothing in the wording says THX.
http://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/business/Generic_SS-2011_Q.pdf


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

It doesn't appear to be THX certified from any of the limited documentation thus far. But all of the quad-tuner boxes so far have had identical hardware except for different hard drive sizes, so the loss would be moot. Only thing we lose is the calibration video, but there are better ones out there for free.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Only XL units are THX certified. TiVo does not pay THX to have the certification label on non XL boxes.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> Only XL units are THX certified. TiVo does not pay THX to have the certification label on non XL boxes.


The Q clearly shows the THX logo (Zoom in), in the printed material above. I don't think MSOs would even care about THX, perhaps it was a pre-production unit pictured, I would be curious to hear from any RCN customers to see if the actual unit has the logo.

I just noticed my new Woot Elite does NOT have the THX logo on the front, interesting...


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> So is the Premiere 4 THX certified? I would assume the hardware would be identical to the Q.
> The PDF posted by Dave, does not show THX on the pictured unit.


No, the new Premiere 4 is not THX certified.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Looking forward to this. I will likely buy a Premiere 4 for $250 + $399 lifetime. I will recycle my 1 TB external drive. 1.5 TB is plenty for me, especially if I can still offload things to my computer via TTG and convert them via Handbrake to an AppleTV compatible format, as I can now.

I will also buy a TiVo Stream and two IP-STBs.

I will then sell my 3 TiVoHDs, all with lifetime, one with a 500 GB external.

Hopefully I can do this without too much net cost. It could also save me some money monthly, if Comcast will get rid of my additional outlet fees on TV2 and TV3 when I replace a TiVo DVR with a TiVo IP-STB.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sbiller said:


> Fantastic chart. Thanks. One nit to add is the 'XL' boxes come with Glo Remotes instead of the basic TiVo Remote.


One more thing. It's not just OTA capable tuners in the 2 tuner boxes. They also have analog tuners for cable where the 4 tuner boxes do not. So even if you don't care about OTA you may need a 2 tuner unit if your cable system still carries analog channels. (mine has about 35 stations that are still analog only and can not be recorded on my Elite)

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> The Q clearly shows the THX logo (Zoom in), in the printed material above. I don't think MSOs would even care about THX, perhaps it was a pre-production unit pictured, I would be curious to hear from any RCN customers to see if the actual unit has the logo.
> 
> I just noticed my new Woot Elite does NOT have the THX logo on the front, interesting...


The Q is not a retail unit. It is the MSO version of XL4 with a 500GB drive.Or if it isn't THX certified then I guess it was specifically made for cable companies and the Premiere 4 is just the retail version of the Q.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> One more thing. It's not just OTA capable tuners in the 2 tuner boxes. They also have analog tuners for cable where the 4 tuner boxes do not. So even if you don't care about OTA you may need a 2 tuner unit if your cable system still carries analog channels. (mine has about 35 stations that are still analog only and can not be recorded on my Elite)
> 
> Dan


Why doesn't your cable company duplicate them on the digital tier? This is what Comcast does around here and also FiOS when they had analog channels.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Why doesn't your cable company duplicate them on the digital tier? This is what Comcast does around here and also FiOS when they had analog channels.


 Probably lack of bandwidth perhaps because they haven't done the necessary upgrades such as 850-1000MHz support and/or SDV.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They actually switched to SDV about a year ago. However they never did anything with it. They put all the HD premium channels on SDV but then they left them in their original locations as well. They said they were going to add a bunch of new HD channels in January, but they that was apparently delayed because it never happened. I have no idea what's going on. I'd love it if the simulcast the analog channels on digital. As it is right now I'm keeping my Premiere XL because my Elite can't record some of the shows I watch.

Dan


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## Tony Chick (Jun 20, 2002)

I'm confused then. Time-Warner has the analog channels on the lower numbers, and I know they are analog because my ancient 13" 1990's CRT set in the kitchen can tune them on 2-99 without a cable box, but I can also tune & record them on my XL4. It seems the XL4 can handle analog cable, unless the cablecard is doing some remapping.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Tony Chick said:


> I'm confused then. Time-Warner has the analog channels on the lower numbers, and I know they are analog because my ancient 13" 1990's CRT set in the kitchen can tune them on 2-99 without a cable box, but I can also tune & record them on my XL4. It seems the XL4 can handle analog cable, unless the cablecard is doing some remapping.


The CableCARD is doing remapping.

Check the info on a recording from one of those channels. If it was really analog, the info would tell you the recording quality (Basic, High, Best, etc.). If it doesn't say anything about that, then the source is digital (even if the same channel on the same number is analog when using a cable ready TV or a TiVo without a CableCARD).


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

sbiller said:


> Fantastic chart. Thanks. One nit to add is the 'XL' boxes come with Glo Remotes instead of the basic TiVo Remote.


Thanks


Dan203 said:


> One more thing. It's not just OTA capable tuners in the 2 tuner boxes. They also have analog tuners for cable where the 4 tuner boxes do not. So even if you don't care about OTA you may need a 2 tuner unit if your cable system still carries analog channels. (mine has about 35 stations that are still analog only and can not be recorded on my Elite)
> 
> Dan


And fair enough. Edited the chart to add those.

(Second edit I was smarter and pulled it back into an editor that supported a fixed width font. It's a little annoying to get the spacing right for the extra lines and width in the broswer's edit window.)

```
OTA capable           |
               Analog/Digital Cable  |  Digital Cable Only    
               2 Tuners              |  4 Tuners
             -------------------------------------------------
small HD     |      Premiere         |     Premiere 4        |
basic remote |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Big HD       |     Premiere XL       |    Premiere XL4       |
THX          |                       |                       |
glow remote  |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------
```


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Tony Chick said:


> I'm confused then. Time-Warner has the analog channels on the lower numbers, and I know they are analog because my ancient 13" 1990's CRT set in the kitchen can tune them on 2-99 without a cable box, but I can also tune & record them on my XL4. It seems the XL4 can handle analog cable, unless the cablecard is doing some remapping.


That's called simulcasting. They broadcast the channel both as analog AND digital. When you tune to the channel using a digital capable box or a device with a CableCARD it redirects the tuner to the digital version of the channel.

My cable company (Charter) still has about 35 channels that are analog only. Some of them have HD equivelents but some of them like AMC, Comedy Central and FX only have analog versions.

The weird thing is I think they tested simulcasting like 6 months ago. I had a few episode of The Daily Show which were much crisper then usual, but then it went back to normal. (I didn't have the Elite yet and didn't think to look for a recording quality flag) I was hoping it would come back but I check every couple of weeks via my Elite and all of them are still analog. 

Dan


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## Tony Chick (Jun 20, 2002)

Thanks Dan. It would be nice if it would redirect to the HD version if connected to an HD capable device like DirecTV does but I suspect that won't happen.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Tony Chick said:


> Thanks Dan. It would be nice if it would redirect to the HD version if connected to an HD capable device like DirecTV does but I suspect that won't happen.


I doubt that. That would probably have to be done on the cable company side and none of them do it


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