# TiVo to launch in New Zealand



## speedyrite (May 18, 2002)

See here:

http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?id=3319


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

So if its good enough for New Zealand then why aren't www.topuptv.co.uk interested in doing a deal with Tivo then? It seems to me their product has near zero visibility in the UK marketplace at the moment and a deal with Tivo is surely the way to turn that around. They have shown before that they are willing to part subsidise equipment prices in order to try and sign up customers for their limited pay DTT service on top of the Freeview channels.

Also if it can be cost effective for Tivo to launch in conjunction with a pay tv partner in a nation of only four million people then surely there might be enough BBC/ITV Freesat customers willing to pay the extra for a top quality Freesat PVR to make things work for a UK Tivo relaunch. However as a monthly subs model clearly does not work psychologically for Freesat that would tend to mean rather an expensive Freesat Tivo box purchase price.

Alternatively I cannot imagine what the logic is for not allowing Nero to launch a UK version of their Tivo product if Tivo can be cost effectively launched in a nation with a population only a fifteenth of the UK's.

Questions on all these points should be sent in an email to the following:-

Tom Rogers CEO/President [email protected]
Jim Barton Co-Founder [email protected]
Joe Miller SVP Consumer Sales/Distribution [email protected]
Mark Roberts SVP Consumer Products/Operations [email protected]


----------



## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Alternatively I cannot imagine what the logic is for not allowing Nero to launch a UK version of their Tivo product if Tivo can be cost effectively launched in a nation with a population only a fifteenth of the UK's.


Woah, there cowboy! Where is the evidence for Nero not being _allowed_? The comments from Nero before was that they were evaluating the commercial benefits of doing it - nothing to do with "not being allowed".


----------



## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

More info at www.mytivo.co.nz

It's a very different business model to the US & UK operations:


> The TiVo media device will be available for a once off purchase. Other costs the consumer may wish to pay for include video on demand new release movies, shopping or pizza ordering as well as optional new feature upgrades and accessories. The 7-day electronic program guide and continual software updates are included in the purchase price.


It's also aimed at Freeview HD, which isn't available in the UK yet. Maybe someone will take a chance with it if the NZ service is successful and there are boxes which may be close in compatibilty terms to the UK Freeview HD service. But that's a commercial decision of course - how much competition is there in the NZ market compared to the UK?


----------



## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Whichever way you look at it, it's still good news :up:

Increased global visibility of TiVo can *only* make a return to the UK more likely. As long as TiVo continues to expand worldwide then the UK will surely get another TiVo system...... eventually


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Trinitron said:


> It's a very different business model to the US & UK operations:
> 
> It's also aimed at Freeview HD, which isn't available in the UK yet. Maybe someone will take a chance with it if the NZ service is successful and there are boxes which may be close in compatibilty terms to the UK Freeview HD service. But that's a commercial decision of course - how much competition is there in the NZ market compared to the UK?


Its business model is quite clearly closest in UK terms to www.topuptv.co.uk, who would also be in to the idea of selling movies downloaded by broadband etc to supplement their meagre live subscription channel range. That is why I mentioned that company.

I think the bottom line is that if its commercially viable to manufacture, box and distribute a Tivo in to a market with only a fifteenth of the UK's population then it should be viable for either Topuptv or BBC/ITV Freesat to think of a way of selling a Tivo to their customers. A BBC/ITV Freesat box that provides FTA broadcast programs but that also let you download pay back catalogue programs or especially films etc from BBC Worldwide, C4 etc seems to be of interest. Of course if Sky wasn't such a horribly monopolistic company then a Freesat Tivo could be sold on the basis of adding a Sky CAM if you ever felt you needed to watch pay satellite tv channels later. But as we know thanks to useless Ofcom that looks highly unlikely to ever come to pass.

At the end of the day as long as the customer covers the equipment cost then and a certain payment to Tivo for its intellectual property right on the software the ongoing EPG costs don't have to be anywhere near the old £120 a year. If we take what Digiguide charge and Tribune offering up to 3 weeks data (another killer app compared to the opposition) then I would have thought offering Suggestions and something like the Tivoweb Highlights module (which could clearly have paid ads on the screen background etc) free for 3 months but then only continuing at say £29.99 per year ought to be a workable model.

The main problem seems to be that due to Sky and Virgin's dominance other companies are afraid to enter the marketplace for fear that those two companies will specifically compete with them anti-competitively until they put them out of business.


----------



## countjocular (Aug 28, 2002)

Looking at http://www.mytivo.co.nz/wantone/ there's a Sky TV tickbox in the Household Setup section. Not sure exactly what the setup is with Sky STB's and monthly subscriptions, but I'll trawl through http://www.skytv.co.nz/ when I get a chance. 
If they're launching in a market where Sky is established then there's hope for us.

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> I think the bottom line is that if its commercially viable to manufacture, box and distribute a Tivo in to a market with only a fifteenth of the UK's population then it should be viable for either Topuptv or BBC/ITV Freesat to think of a way of selling a Tivo to their customers.
> ...
> The main problem seems to be that due to Sky and Virgin's dominance other companies are afraid to enter the marketplace for fear that those two companies will specifically compete with them anti-competitively until they put them out of business.


Maybe your last comment answers the earlier question? That's probably one of the reasons why Nero have not progressed Liquid TV over here.

Another recent TiVo partnership that could fit your 'Topup TV' model is something based on their deal with Netflix in the US. They started out as a 'DVDs by post' operation and expanded into VoD downloads. The latest TiVo now has the Netflix VoD service embedded. There was talk a few years back of Netflix starting in the UK but it didn't happen. TiVo HD with Netflix would definitely get my custom!


----------



## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

countjocular said:


> Looking at http://www.mytivo.co.nz/wantone/ there's a Sky TV tickbox in the Household Setup section. Not sure exactly what the setup is with Sky STB's and monthly subscriptions, but I'll trawl through http://www.skytv.co.nz/ when I get a chance.
> If they're launching in a market where Sky is established then there's hope for us.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil


We're in the States now, but have Permanent Residence in NZ. Sky is the be-all, end-all in NZ. Their satellite system is about the only way to see more than the three local channels (and besides a couple of original programs some awful/old U.S. programming). They have various tier offerings from basic to full-blown several hundred channel packages. A lot of Kiwis use the basic tier to get about 30 channels and then rely on an antenna for local fare.

Sky promotes their own HD DVR. Last I looked it cost about NZ$600...and that was to LEASE, not buy!  (Or $99 to sign up and $15/mo. on top of the regular monthly fee IIRC...what a bargain.  )

A number of folks have hacked Series1 TiVo's to work in NZ based on an old OZ model with their own guide data, etc. It was a pain to maintain but it worked. So TiVo isn't completely unfamiliar there. Hopefully the new TiVo arrangement will give Sky a serious run for their money.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> I would have thought offering Suggestions and something like the Tivoweb Highlights module (which could clearly have paid ads on the screen background etc) free for 3 months but then only continuing at say £29.99 per year ought to be a workable model.


Don't forget the cost of the Freephone number and I suspect Digiguide don't have much in the way of customer support costs. TiVioInc does't make a lot of money (asny money) at current subs rates, why you think running at a quarter of the normal rate would be viable is beyond me.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Don't forget the cost of the Freephone number


Haven't you heard of broadband and wireless routers then grandad?



> and I suspect Digiguide don't have much in the way of customer support costs


Nor will Tivo if they make www.topuptv.co.uk liable for them if they go down that route.



> TiVioInc does't make a lot of money (asny money) at current subs rates, why you think running at a quarter of the normal rate would be viable is beyond me.


A UK Tivo could always make use of the existing Freeview or Freesat EPGs (poorer quality though they are in terms of Metadata etc) and have channel specific as well as non channel specific Wishlists instead of Season Passes. Then all that needs to happen is each machine price to contain a £25 royalty fee payment to Tivo and Tivo are quids in. Any support could be via a 50p per minute phone line and/or FAQs on a website and would therefore be self financing. That is all the support that most internet radio manufacturers in practice provide for their customers. And its certainly all the support that any Freeview customer gets.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> A UK Tivo could always make use of the existing Freeview or Freesat EPGs (poorer quality though they are in terms of Metadata etc) and have channel specific as well as non channel specific Wishlists instead of Season Passes..


Doesn't that almost entirely defeat the point?

The TiVi UI is the best, but is it really worth giving up SP functionality for?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> The TiVi UI is the best, but is it really worth giving up SP functionality for?


Arguably a Channel Specific Wishlist is actually more reliable than a Season Pass where Tribune's staff may mess up and not link the new series to the original Season Pass. It is certainly superior to the system used by Sky+ or Freeview+

If the Freeview/Freesat EPG also provides the OAD of each episode then the Tivo ought to be able to work out whether or not an episode is the first showing available (under a channel specific wishlist) or a repeat of one that has already been aired on that channel.

But yes you may be right that it is not really Tivo without three weeks of EPG data and Suggestions too.


----------



## bixbarton (Jan 2, 2004)

Grrr, first Australia, now New Zealand...

It's almost like they're deliberately teasing us.

Please TiVo - come back to the UK!

Gentle reminder, the TiVo4UK petition is due to close this month.

128 signatures so far, please please sign it.

When it closes end of April, it gets emailed to the top nob at TiVo himself, Tom Rogers.

TiVo4UK


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Grrrgh. I hate IPetitions as they deliberately try to con you in to making a donation to them by making it look as though it is an essential part of the process of signing the petition.

Whereas in the small print on very close inspection you then find (after desperately trying to avoid making a "donation") that you have already recorded your signature when they start asking you for money with a Next button that makes it look as though it is compulsory to use and and donate in order to sign.

I don't think 132 signatures is going to change Tivo's mind and I really do object to having any dealings at all with the dishonest and duplicitous IPetitions. Their system also seems rubbish when it has recorded two signatures for me as anonymous even though the details used (name and email address) and IP address were the same for each.

I don't think I Petitions can be taken at all seriously. They are clearly just a money grabbing operation.


----------



## Glen (May 9, 2004)

I agree. Those signatures wont keep them from changing their minds! It would have to be 1000's of them, (if not more) for TiVo to even take notice of it. Tom Rogers probably wont even see it. I sent a letter to Tom explaining everything and I didn't get so much as an acknowledgment.

My TiVo as much as I love it has been unplugged for weeks and weeks now. Yeah, I upgraded to Sky+ HD, because the picture quality is far better Even in SD, and Mode 0 was on my tivo. Sorry but its blindingly obvious they aren't interested in coming back here, and in the rare (and i mean rare) eventuality that they do come back, they wont support Sky, so there is pretty much no point in my unit being plugged back in again. 

The only thing i have missed really is the Wishlists. Where as the dual tuners, and increased picture quality of SkyHD have been great.


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Grrrgh. I hate IPetitions as they deliberately try to con you in to making a donation to them by making it look as though it is an essential part of the process of signing the petition.
> 
> Whereas in the small print on very close inspection you then find (after desperately trying to avoid making a "donation") that you have already recorded your signature when they start asking you for money with a Next button that makes it look as though it is compulsory to use and and donate in order to sign.
> 
> I don't think I Petitions can be taken at all seriously. They are clearly just a money grabbing operation.


Huh? It says "Your signature has been recorded" in bold at the top of the donation page...


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

britcub said:


> Huh? It says "Your signature has been recorded" in bold at the top of the donation page...


What in very small writing that is off the top of the screen whilst in front of you there are large buttons to make donations to various values with a Next button by them.

I note that roddydogs felt the same way as me about it in this digitalspy discussion thread.

See www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=817438


----------



## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

Is there nothing you won't complain about, Pete? Seems pretty clear to me (see attached)

But enough off-topic nonsense.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I object to their attempts to extract money being so in your face.

If anyone should pay them money it should surely be the person who started the petition.


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> What in very small writing that is off the top of the screen whilst in front of you there are large buttons to make donations to various values with a Next button by them.[/url]


It's not off the top of the screen, and it's the same size as "Please help support iPetitions" and bigger and bolder than all the rest of the text and the one, very small, button and standard sized radio buttons.

Of course you'll never find Pete admitting he's wrong...


----------



## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

TCM2007 said:


> Of course you'll never find Pete admitting he's wrong...


Just as well, else,

Gawd, there goes the fabric of the universe


----------



## anderson (Mar 5, 2003)

Okay, just bought my dear mother who lives in New Zealand a TiVo. Admittedly for the hefty price of £400. No monthly subscription though. It beggars belief that in a country of only 4 million people, they have a product out, which people can just go into a shop and buy which works with digital terrestrial TV - in HD no less. 

This is everything we want in the UK, as has been said before a tie in with Top Up Tv would be a logical choice. In New Zealand they are partnered with Telecom (ex Post Office) Broadband. Although you can use it without broadband, just means you only get 7 days guide data.

Very jealous that by my own doing, mother is outdoing me in technology.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

But not for long; assuming you can get Cable where you are 

You did read this, right? 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/announcement.php?f=14&a=86


----------



## anderson (Mar 5, 2003)

By crikey! No, I hadn't read that! Oh dear, this makes things worse, despite - or perhaps because of the fact I live in the City of Westminster, we don't have access to digital cable. I shall have to move. At least I don't have to move to New Zealand I suppose!

I guess this is a problem for us un-cabled souls. Virgin I would imagine have signed an exclusive deal. The dream of a Freeview HD TiVo is over for now at least.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

You can't get VM in the dead-centre of London?  It's not like it's the middle of nowhere


----------



## anderson (Mar 5, 2003)

It's apparently the legacy of Westminster Cable being a pioneering cable company in the early 90's, the network they laid is incompatible with digital or summink. At least that's what I've been told. Sounds a load of old nonsense to be honest. Two streets away in the neighbouring borough, they've all got Virgin Media.

Of course being that most of the City of Westminster is a conservation area and not allowed satellite dishes, if we did have digital cable, they'd have a lot of customers.


----------



## anderson (Mar 5, 2003)

Oh and I feel I should comment on richsadams post regarding NZ telly. While I would never stick up for it, it is poor compared to the UK, comparable perhaps to the Republic of Ireland. They do have access to 14 channels on freeview, including two digital only commercial free ones from the state broadcaster TVNZ. The 3 main terrestrial channels do broadcast in HD though. Trumping the UK in that regard.


----------



## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

anderson said:


> Oh and I feel I should comment on richsadams post regarding NZ telly. While I would never stick up for it, it is poor compared to the UK, comparable perhaps to the Republic of Ireland. They do have access to 14 channels on freeview, including two digital only commercial free ones from the state broadcaster TVNZ. The 3 main terrestrial channels do broadcast in HD though. Trumping the UK in that regard.


We were so spoiled by the massive selection of TV programming we had in the States that we went through a wee bit of withdrawal when we immigrated to NZ...but we survived. Granted a lot of what we can watch in the U.S. isn't worth the time, it's nice to have a little more choice.

We were often embarrassed however when people that had never traveled outside of the country asked if the U.S. was really what was portrayed on the low-budget U.S. TV shows Sky and the local channels would broadcast. Although Jerry Springer and his ilk do exist and there are places like they show in Bay Watch, the shows they were importing really gave a skewed view of things. The upside was that we watched less TV and actually got out to meet our neighbors...all of which were good as gold. :up: We're Stateside now, but if and when the time comes we'd head back to join our Kiwi friends in a heartbeat, good TV or not! 

BTW, after I sorted out how to maneuver our rental car through a five-lane roundabout in downtown London years ago...my wife and I have always really enjoyed our time there!


----------



## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

anderson said:


> Oh and I feel I should comment on richsadams post regarding NZ telly. While I would never stick up for it, it is poor compared to the UK, comparable perhaps to the Republic of Ireland. They do have access to 14 channels on freeview, including two digital only commercial free ones from the state broadcaster TVNZ. The 3 main terrestrial channels do broadcast in HD though. Trumping the UK in that regard.


Yep - though the UK does now have Freeview HD broadcasts from Crystal Palace and Winter Hill using the newer, more spectrum efficient, DVB-T2 modulation system. (36-40Mbs per mux rather than 18-24Mbs that DVB-T delivers in the same RF bandwith - we waited for the better modulation tech for HD - partially because we had to - rather than launch using the same system we'd used for 12 years for SD broadcasts. NZ, AIUI, launched SD and HD at the same time and went with the older DVB-T modulation system.)

This means 2 HD channels on-air at the moment (BBC HD and ITV1 HD, with C4HD expecting to launch on the platform next year) Should cover 50% of the UK population by the World Cup next year. 4th HD channel (from 'five') expected later next year.

Out of interest - how much HD programming is being produced in NZ? (Or is it mostly US, Aus and UK imports that are shown in HD?)


----------



## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Trinitron said:


> More info at www.mytivo.co.nz
> 
> It's a very different business model to the US & UK operations:
> 
> It's also aimed at Freeview HD, which isn't available in the UK yet. Maybe someone will take a chance with it if the NZ service is successful and there are boxes which may be close in compatibilty terms to the UK Freeview HD service. But that's a commercial decision of course - how much competition is there in the NZ market compared to the UK?


UK and NZ have quite similar SD Freeview platforms but AIUI the EPG is handled differently, though this might have changed. (At one time NZ used MHEG5 for EPG stuff, whilst the UK uses DVB EIT streams)

The two Freeview HD platforms are totally different with the UK using the much more modern and much more spectrum efficient DVB-T2 modulation scheme, whilst NZ went with the legacy DVB-T scheme, which was all that was available when they launched a year or two ago. (The UK fast-tracked development of DVB-T2 as it offered a solution to Ofcom's spectrum issues...)


----------



## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

richsadams said:


> BTW, after I sorted out how to maneuver our rental car through a five-lane roundabout in downtown London years ago...my wife and I have always really enjoyed our time there!


Then you must have missed the Magic Roundabouts in Swindon and several other English towns. 

Five mini roundabouts in a circle that create a clockwise outer roundabout and an anti-clockwise inner roundabout. And famous for changing the faces of all passengers to a pale white.


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

That looks like fun


----------



## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

iankb said:


> Then you must have missed the Magic Roundabouts in Swindon and several other English towns.
> 
> Five mini roundabouts in a circle that create a clockwise outer roundabout and an anti-clockwise inner roundabout. And famous for changing the faces of all passengers to a pale white.


Eeeeyow!  They had a couple of odd "multi-roundabouts" in Auckland but that one really would have sent us over the edge.


----------



## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

iankb said:


> Then you must have missed the Magic Roundabouts in Swindon and several other English towns.
> 
> Five mini roundabouts in a circle that create a clockwise outer roundabout and an anti-clockwise inner roundabout. And famous for changing the faces of all passengers to a pale white.


Brilliant idea once you get the hang of them - though many people treat them like normal roundabouts and still go the long way round.


----------



## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Sneals2000 said:


> Brilliant idea once you get the hang of them - though many people treat them like normal roundabouts and still go the long way round.


We used to have an American project manager working with us in Hemel Hempstead. Instead of the expected nervous stop-start around the local one, he just put his foot down and went straight through with yells of glee. In that case, the white faces were of all the other drivers and me as his passenger. 

He never did get a grasp of how they were supposed to work.


----------



## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Sneals2000 said:


> Brilliant idea once you get the hang of them - though many people treat them like normal roundabouts and still go the long way round.


They're finally catching on here in the States...although most Yanks have little concept of how to deal with them and using blinkers is all but forgotten.   They are indeed far superior to most of the 4-way stops and signaled intersections we're used to.


----------



## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

richsadams said:


> They're finally catching here in the States...although most Yanks have little concept of how to deal with them and using blinkers is all but forgotten.   They are indeed far superior to most of the 4-way stops and signaled intersections we're used to.


Are you talking about normal roundabouts or the magic variety?

(Magic roundabouts allow you to go both clockwise and anti-clockwise, whereas normal roundabouts are clockwise only)

Roundabouts are a good solution for T-junctions that would otherwise possibly require traffic lights to be safe, and are almost universally used for motorway junctions where traffic can join either carriageway at the same junction.


----------



## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Sneals2000 said:


> Are you talking about normal roundabouts or the magic variety?
> 
> (Magic roundabouts allow you to go both clockwise and anti-clockwise, whereas normal roundabouts are clockwise only)
> 
> Roundabouts are a good solution for T-junctions that would otherwise possibly require traffic lights to be safe, and are almost universally used for motorway junctions where traffic can join either carriageway at the same junction.


Oh, the "normal" one-way roundabouts...single lane almost exclusively. Anything else would probably send folks here into a state of panic.

I haven't experienced a "magic" roundabout yet...looking forward to it...I think. 

Traffic studies here show that although they tend to move traffic more efficiently, signals are less safe than stop signs at an intersection. Stop signs require everyone to stop but when replaced with signals traffic accidents increase. Roundabouts are a far better solution IMHO. Wow...did that ever get OT!


----------



## beastman (May 26, 2002)

be keen to know if the Kiwi Tivo has been received well by Tivo experts - My brother lives out there and says its expensive - is it worth it? Should he wait 6 months or so for the price to come down?
Also can you receive epg updates with just a phone line or do you have to have broadband?


----------



## bobnick (Jun 6, 2002)

cwaring said:


> You can't get VM in the dead-centre of London?  It's not like it's the middle of nowhere


Oh you can - just not digital VM.


----------

