# Tivo will not honor grandfather Tivo transfer to Roamio



## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

I have a grandfathered tivo (KDB 09-07-04) that has been confirmed by tech support to be eligible. 

Tonight I called Tivo to purchase a Roamio. They refused to sell me one. They said I will have to wait a few weeks until they have a "standalone" available without any subscription on it. They also said this "standalone" will cost more than the $200 but not sure how much.

The bottom line is Tivo is going to charge me more for the hardware to transfer lifetime that was grandfathered by in 1999. Not a very good way to treat an old customer.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

You may have to play csr roulette, calling until you get someone who knows more than the average csr or you may have to ask to talk to a supervisor.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> You may have to play csr roulette, calling until you get someone who knows more than the average csr or you may have to ask to talk to a supervisor.


Tried that... I asked for a supervisor and they put me on hold for 15 minutes with no response.

Tried the tech support team that confirmed the Tivo qualified when I talked to them in July. They also would not help.

Is there any better phone number or customer service area?


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## dugbug (Dec 29, 2003)

Wait a few weeks. They are overwhelmed with new product launch frenzy


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This is just how it's setup in their system. They can't sell you a Roamio without service already attached. If you buy one from Amazon, BestBuy or Weaknees the you should be able to get the lifetime switched over no problem.


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## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

would a series 1 tivo from directv qualify? I still have mine that i bought either in 1999 or 2000 it was a phillps brand tivo that i bought at circuit cit instead of getting the replay dvr at the time.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

IIRC, *originally* the DirecTivos had the service from Tivo.. then they were attached to the DirecTV account.. So it matters exactly when you got it for two reasons -- if you're before the grandfather time, and if you're in the time where it was "tivo's" account and not "directv's account".


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

magnumis said:


> I have a grandfathered tivo (KDB 09-07-04) that has been confirmed by tech support to be eligible.
> 
> Tonight I called Tivo to purchase a Roamio. They refused to sell me one. They said I will have to wait a few weeks until they have a "standalone" available without any subscription on it. They also said this "standalone" will cost more than the $200 but not sure how much.
> 
> The bottom line is Tivo is going to charge me more for the hardware to transfer lifetime that was grandfathered by in 1999. Not a very good way to treat an old customer.


So, in other words, YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. They will honor it, but NOT _RIGHT_ now.

Also, are you claiming that the current ones won't be available for purchase at a store?


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

mattack said:


> So, in other words, YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. They will honor it, but NOT _RIGHT_ now.
> 
> Also, are you claiming that the current ones won't be available for purchase at a store?


Thanks for SHOUTING 

Tivo is not honoring the intent of the grandfather agreement. The customer should not have to pay a premium for hardware before they will transfer the lifetime agreement. The lifetime transfer is loosing a lot of the value if I can not get the $200 tivo. Customer without a grandfather tivo are getting the $200 price plus a Tivo stream for free.

I am not claiming anything about a store purchase. Please read the original post again and come back with some more great comments.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Order a Roamio with monthly service and the discount code (with a Stream, if you want/need it). When you get it, do the GF transfer. Lifetime will overlay the monthly service.

Problem solved.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm not sure that would work. Monthly TiVos have a 1 year commitment. I'm not sure they can just over ride that with a grandfather transfer.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

magnumis said:


> Thanks for SHOUTING
> 
> Tivo is not honoring the intent of the grandfather agreement. The customer should not have to pay a premium for hardware before they will transfer the lifetime agreement. The lifetime transfer is loosing a lot of the value if I can not get the $200 tivo. Customer without a grandfather tivo are getting the $200 price plus a Tivo stream for free.
> 
> I am not claiming anything about a store purchase. Please read the original post again and come back with some more great comments.


You're trying to transfer service you paid $199 for 14 years ago, which is now valued at $400, and you're mad because you can't do it in such a way that you get a free Stream out of the deal too?

You can buy a Roamio from Amazon for $200 right now and get your transfer. The only thing you'll miss out on is the free Stream. But considering you're saving $400 on lifetime it seems like you're still ending up ahead.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

celtic pride said:


> would a series 1 tivo from directv qualify? I still have mine that i bought either in 1999 or 2000 it was a phillps brand tivo that i bought at circuit cit instead of getting the replay dvr at the time.


No. I also have DirecTV TiVo lifetime purchased in October 2000, it is only good with DirecTV and tied to the DirecTV account. I don't know but it is possible exceptions to the rule have been granted but were a mistake or under special conditions. I have never read about anyone getting to transfer lifetime service from a DirecTV DVR with TiVo to a standard TiVo. I did purchase my DirecTV TiVo lifetime service directly from TiVo but that doesn't matter. The grandfathered lifetime date, before January 2000, is before the DirecTV TiVo launched. I also had one of those lifetime contracts I did transfer a few years ago.

As far as whining because it isn't possible to make a transfer of a grandfathered lifetime to a TiVo Roamio with free TiVo Stream, nothing surprises me regarding what people will whine about.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Dan is correct, I hope. I had the same conversation with two TiVo sales reps last night. The first one eventually told me that if I buy a "stand alone Roamio" from Best Buy or other reseller, I could then call in and do the transfer. I asked multiple times and was also given a "reference number" to use to call up an entry in their computers of his assurance to me. I found the Roamio Plus at Weeknees for the same price and ordered it along with a Mini, no tax, no shipping charges. I then called back and asked another CSR, asked the same question, had the same conversation and verified that the reference number and entry was in their database. I then finalized the Weaknees order. When the new boxes come, everything should work out.

It seems silly, but that's how their computers are set up. Look TiVo lost part of their profit on a sale, And I'm going to have to deal with "use tax" rather than "sales tax." but my original $200 "lifetime" that lasted me almost 14 years will hopefully last me another 14.

And BTW, it's "losing" not "loosing."


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

I have a lifetime TiVo on a Sony 30 Hour PTV Recorder with an activation date of 09/09/2002. I noticed under "My Account" that the payment plan for this unit is "TiVo Lifetime Service" as opposed to "TiVo Package, Product Lifetime" on my Premiere. 

This wording difference has me wondering:
Is it possible to transfer the Sony unit's lifetime to a new Roamio unit?


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

bayern_fan said:


> I have a lifetime TiVo on a Sony 30 Hour PTV Recorder with an activation date of 09/09/2002. I noticed under "My Account" that the payment plan for this unit is "TiVo Lifetime Service" as opposed to "TiVo Package, Product Lifetime" on my Premiere.
> 
> This wording difference has me wondering:
> Is it possible to transfer the Sony unit's lifetime to a new Roamio unit?


Nope, way past the cutoff date.


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## dallastx (Sep 27, 2007)

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000797-3.html
posted January 21, 2000 10:35 PM

Okay, I'm back in this thread...
First of all, let me begin by stating that TiVo never had any intention of misleading anyone. The implications to that are unfounded, and not particularly well thought out. We have never wavered on what we meant by the lifetime policy. We understand that some of the phrasing on the original FAQ may have been unclear to some of you, but our modifications of the FAQ were intended to clarify the original policy, not change it mid-stream in any way. I myself have posted MANY posts stating that lifetime was for the life of the receiver, not the person. Check on this forum! Check on Usenet. Ive never stated anything to the contrary.

Consider the competition. We created the Lifetime Subscription to compete against the idea of the Lifetime Service for the box being bundled into the cost of the box. When the Lifetime Service is bundled in the price of the receiver, there is less of a question as to whether it is the life of the person, or the receiver. We created the Lifetime Subscription to serve those who hate monthly fees.

On the other hand, many of you have stated different ways in which you have interpreted the policy, and we respect your opinions.

Here is the new FAQ I have posted today, January 21. Weve worked pretty hard on this, and were confident its much clearer than the previous version  I hope you agree:

Q: What Does Lifetime Service Mean?

A: Lifetime Service:
- Applies to the lifetime of the receiver (not of the subscriber). 
- Remains in effect after storage capacity upgrades by the manufacturer or an authorized vendor. 
- Remains in effect when the receiver is repaired or replaced during service by the manufacturer or an authorized vendor. 
- Accompanies the receiver in case of ownership transfer. 
- Cannot be transferred to a receiver from a different manufacturer or to a receiver with a different model number. 
- Each receiver purchased requires its own service subscription.

Moving forward, it seems that most of the questions that have been raised in this forum are cleared up by the new FAQ, but what do we do about those of you who misunderstood the earlier FAQ on Lifetime Service?

TiVo really cares about keeping our early adopters happy  if you misunderstood TiVos Lifetime Service policy we want to help make it up to you. We will allow you to transfer your service to a new receiver made by any manufacturer. You will have to speak to a TiVo Customer Care Representative to get this done  tell them you are an "early adopter who wants the one-time exception to be allowed to transfer your Lifetime Service to a receiver from a different manufacturer" - your case will need to be escalated to an account specialist who will be able to complete the transfer. You dont have to worry about this until a new receiver that you fancy comes along, but when it does, and it will, call Customer Care with your new serial number and they will make it happen. This is not just for members of this forum, but any early customer who activated the TiVo service prior to today, January 21, 2000. We do, however, want to make clear that this is not a change of policy. This is a one time only exception that Customer Care has been empowered to make for our early customers (people who bought before we posted this new clarified FAQ).

We also, of course, hope that when you do upgrade you will pass along your old receiver at a fair price to someone who will also get a subscription to the Service, but that is not a condition to this deal.

I hope you guys find this to be fair.

Cheers,
Richard Bullwinkle
TiVo Webmaster


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

I am an early adopter of TiVo (The Original) and somehow managed to get my Lifetime transferred to a TiVo HD. Recently a *ehem* girl I was getting to know (date) accepted my kind offer of loaning her my HD (Hey, I had The Hopper where I was renting and was happy with that and I fancied myself in LOVE). Sad story short we soon fell out and she would not return the TiVo HD (I think maybe it got pawned). I called TiVo and they were so cool about it - They gave me a discount off a MSRP Premiere (pick the model) and promised to transfer my LifeTime for free. (only rub was that MSRP is in no way close to the reduced price of a Retail Premiere - you listening TiVo?) 

Anyway, I have an agreement in 'pocket' with TiVo that when I want to do this deal just call and make it so. Well, I was about to pull the trigger when lo and behold here comes Mr. Roamio (wherefor art thou Roamio - sorry, couldn't resist) ... but I can't do it right now ... have to wait 2 or 3 weeks for it to get designated "Standalone" (which is a designation without much meaning as far as I can tell, but oh well). Reading here that the price (MSRP?) of the Standalone may not match the given price of the Roamio now (the Plus goes for $399). I think that's just chatter talk and that the hardware price for a Standalone Roamio Plus will go for the same price as what is priced today. So, once I clear this 'Standalone' hurdle I expect to exercise my option and call TiVo with a Roamio Plus Ship Order. Anyone want to pour cold water on my dreams?


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Again, you can buy any of the Roamio models from Weaknees, Best Buy, Amazon or any other reseller, often with better deals on price, taxes or shipping and TiVo will honor the grandfather deal on Series 1s purchased before the January 20, 2000 (?). I know, as I just did this. My Roamio Plus is now lifetimed based on this.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MScottC said:


> Again, you can buy any of the Roamio models from Weaknees, Best Buy, Amazon or any other reseller, often with better deals on price, taxes or shipping and TiVo will honor the grandfather deal on Series 1s purchased before the January 20, 2000 (?). I know, as I just did this. My Roamio Plus is now lifetimed based on this.


To be picky, I think it's not when the TiVo was purchased, but when the Product Lifetime Service was purchased.

In other words, if you bought the TiVo in '99, and bought PLS for it in Feb. of 2000, you're SOL.

Although not as SOL as UK S1 owners who bought lifetime, as over there they have a definition of lifetime which you won't find in Richard Bullwinkle's Jan. 2000 post.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

unitron said:


> To be picky, I think it's not when the TiVo was purchased, but when the Product Lifetime Service was purchased.
> 
> In other words, if you bought the TiVo in '99, and bought PLS for it in Feb. of 2000, you're SOL.
> 
> Although not as SOL as UK S1 owners who bought lifetime, as over there they have a definition of lifetime which you won't find in Richard Bullwinkle's Jan. 2000 post.


I won't argue that point... The issue is, prior to the date in the announcement, clarity was lacking in their definition of "lifetime." Once they defined "lifetime," it was tied to the box. Only those who purchased lifetime before that date got the one time transfer grandfather policy.


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

So, to do a quick recap on my situation: 
1. I was an early adopter (date pre-2000 I'm pretty sure) - got lifetime.
2. When Tivo HD came out (date uncertain) I somehow managed to get lifetime transfered to it.
3. P.O.S. "Girl Friend" stole said Tivo HD. I talked to Tivo - they agree to replace my HD with a Premiere (at the time the top unit) for a discount of about $100 off MSRP and transfer Lifetime.
4. I waited then because I was using the landlords Dish Hopper and had no need.
5. Moved. Have Need. Roamio comes out. Now I'm told I have to 'wait' till Roamio goes 'standalone' in 6-8 weeks (getting close now I think) ... 
6. This forum advises me to go buy one at Best Buy or something - which Customer Service told me I COULD NOT DO - because the transfer is tied to me paying MSRP thru Tivo (which is always more than Retail it seems - I called to see if I could get a Premiere at Best Buy at a lower price but transfer the service and told no... have to get unit thru tivo and then they honor the transfer (this is exactly what they told me!) ... 

So ... which is it? Buy at Best Buy and be ASSURED they will honor the Lifetime Transfer ... or wait for ... Standalone status. (and pay more)?

Oh, one little question: where would I find out what Tivo has on file as my activation date? I will assume for now it's in my tivo account somewhere.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You already used your lifetime transfer when you moved it to the TiVo HD. What they're doing for you is sort of a favor, so they can impose whatever rules they want on you. Honestly I'm surprised they're even offering this at all. You probably should have just taken them up on the Premiere offer when they originally made the deal and sold it if you didn't need it.

Look at it this way you only paid $199 for lifetime 14 years ago, so you probably got more then your money's worth out of it for the time you had that S1 and whatever time you had the TiVo HD before your GF stole it. If I were you I'd cut my losses and just buy a Roamio. If they're still offering you a Premiere then take it and sell it and use the profit towards a Roamio.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

zenshadow said:


> because the transfer is tied to me paying MSRP thru Tivo (which is always more than Retail it seems .


This is typical of TiVo. When they do a lifetime transfer, they want to maximize their profit so they make you pay *full* price for the hardware.
Best Buy's price is the subsidized cost of the hardware. That's why you can't use a Tivo bought at Best Buy for the lifetime transfer.
Also, this gives TiVo total control of the lifetime transfer. IIRC they will send you the new Tivo already activated and as soon as it calls into the TiVo servers, the Tivo from which the lifetime was transferred immediately becomes a brick.



Dan203 said:


> You already used your lifetime transfer when you moved it to the TiVo HD. What they're doing for you is sort of a favor, so they can impose whatever rules they want on you. Honestly I'm surprised they're even offering this at all.


This.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

steve614 said:


> IIRC they will send you the new Tivo already activated and as soon as it calls into the TiVo servers, the Tivo from which the lifetime was transferred immediately becomes a brick.


The Tivo from which the service was transferred would become a brick before the new Tivo is even shipped.


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

I am actually willing to wait it out on them declaring the Roamio a Standalone (and beyond just announcing that - I don't know what else would change - especially at the hardware level - anyone know?) So, if they need some weeks to make that announcement - and I get my Roamio at MSRP (less about $100) and the Lifetime - then I'm cool with that. I just read someone saying they went and bought theirs at a Retail Outlet and then got Tivo to transfer the service ... I too was a bit surprised they allowed me (made me the favor) after I used my one time grandfather on the Original to HD ... guess they just felt sorry for me getting taken by that girl 'friend'. It's on file and I'm sure they are going to honor the deal. Switching to buying a Roamio and then selling off the Premiere they will honor now ... well, that's a complicated thing that could go south on me - I'm thinking not getting a good sale from eBay auction or something here ... rather just work with the bird I have in the bush, so to speak. 

As for Bricking the old unit ... More power to them! Do it! It will be a sweet revenge on the Girl (actually, she probably just pawned it for the crack or whatever she was hooked on, lol)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

yeah, you already used your one grandfather transfer.. Don't know why you think you should get another.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

steve614 said:


> This is typical of TiVo. When they do a lifetime transfer, they want to maximize their profit so they make you pay *full* price for the hardware.
> Best Buy's price is the subsidized cost of the hardware. That's why you can't use a Tivo bought at Best Buy for the lifetime transfer.
> Also, this gives TiVo total control of the lifetime transfer. IIRC they will send you the new Tivo already activated and as soon as it calls into the TiVo servers, the Tivo from which the lifetime was transferred immediately becomes a brick.
> 
> This.


In the case of the stolen HD, I hope they bricked it as soon as they confirmed that they were talking to the legal owner.


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

mattack said:


> yeah, you already used your one grandfather transfer.. Don't know why you think you should get another.


I don't think I SHOULD get another ... I just called them to see what they might be able to do (I expected to be told "sorry, there's nothing we can do" or at most a bit off a repurchase - They OFFERED without me asking to do this. So, your comment is a bit off. Just saying.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Sorry, I was replying to the *original* poster.. and the thread is titled negatively.


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

mattack said:


> Sorry, I was replying to the *original* poster.. and the thread is titled negatively.


Oh, I see. Good, then. Thanks.


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

I was always of the understanding that 'Lifetime' stayed with the machine unless there was some reason a CSR would override that rule (promotion - recently purchased - equipment malfunction). I got two Premieres in exchange for my two, Lifetime HD's, and they transferred the subscriptions. Reason: the HD's wouldn't play mp4. Other than that, I would never expect a transfer.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

mattack said:


> Sorry, I was replying to the *original* poster.. and the thread is titled negatively.


Oh really?
The OP has not already used a grandfathered lifetime transfer. The OP is having some difficulties transferring an original grandfathered lifetime sub to his liking. The only mention of already using such a transfer was made by zenshadow whom you claim you were not responding to.


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## HF444 (Dec 17, 2006)

Hi,

I just saw your comment dated 10-08-2013 about how you were able to get 2 Tivo HD's exchanged ( with lifetime as well ) because the HD's would not play mp4"s.

How did you accomplish this?
What did you say or who did you talk to etc. etc.

I have an HD with lifetime and I would love to be able to move" it upward in the Tivo food chain ( to a Premiere or maybe a Roamio ???? ).

Thank you for any assistance/ info you can provide.

HF


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> You're trying to transfer service you paid $199 for 14 years ago, which is now valued at $400, and you're mad because you can't do it in such a way that you get a free Stream out of the deal too?


Good point. As consumers we sometimes have a hard time properly assessing our value as a "loyal" customer. Customer loyalty, in business, is measured like everything else in business, in terms of profit. A customer who buys a Roamio to replace their Premiere is a loyal customer. I just bought a Roamio to replace my Series 3 - that doesn't make me a loyal customer, worthy of excessive concern for my satisfaction above and beyond that of a first-time buyer. If anything, a first-time buyer might be worth more concern than I am, given I've already established a pattern of series-skipping in my "loyalty" to TiVo.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

bicker said:


> Good point. As consumers we sometimes have a hard time properly assessing our value as a "loyal" customer. Customer loyalty, in business, is measured like everything else in business, in terms of profit. A customer who buys a Roamio to replace their Premiere is a loyal customer. I just bought a Roamio to replace my Series 3 - that doesn't make me a loyal customer, worthy of excessive concern for my satisfaction above and beyond that of a first-time buyer. If anything, a first-time buyer might be worth more concern than I am, given I've already established a pattern of series-skipping in my "loyalty" to TiVo.


Your correct that "loyal customer" should be relabeled as a customer that provides profit to TiVo, owning a lifetime TiVo for the last 6 years is not a customer that has provided any profit to TiVo in the last 2 of those years, are you loyal to TiVo ? Why, because you could have dumped your Lifetime TiVo and rented a cable co DVR, sometimes TiVo does give a good deal to long time customers, I had a out of warrantee TiVo that went bad (mother board) and the CSR was real nice and replaced the unit for free, even paying for the return shipping because I have been with TiVo over 10 years, that was a one time event that earned TiVo a good feeling from me, but it would probably never happen again and it would up the CSR you happened to get on the phone.


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## HF444 (Dec 17, 2006)

Hello tvmaster2,

are you out there?

please see message #34.

Thank you


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## enofile (Feb 27, 2011)

Okay, I wish to understand. When my wife purchased a Tivo as a gift for me in the year 2000, she was under the assumption it included a lifetime membership. However, I was just told, since I purchased two Tivo DVRs with no membership contract, my lifetime contract is effectively expired and I am basically a brand new customer. That "lifetime" expiration scares me, as it seems I have already experienced my demise.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

It did not expire- do you still have the box? Has it called home in the last 6 months?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

enofile said:


> Okay, I wish to understand. When my wife purchased a Tivo as a gift for me in the year 2000, she was under the assumption it included a lifetime membership. However, I was just told, since I purchased two Tivo DVRs with no membership contract, my lifetime contract is effectively expired and I am basically a brand new customer. That "lifetime" expiration scares me, as it seems I have already experienced my demise.


There is no Lifetime expiration. If she actually purchased lifetime service for that original TiVo the service will stay in effect for the lifetime of that box. There is only one exception to this rule as outlined in a post above:

"We will allow you to transfer your service to a new receiver made by any manufacturer... any early customer who activated the TiVo service* prior to today, January 21, 2000*. We do, however, want to make clear that this is not a change of policy. This is a *one time only* exception that Customer Care has been empowered to make for our early customers"


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

It sounds to me like enofile has a lifetime box which has not called in. If he was getting MSD on his non-lifetime boxes, and the lifetime box has not called in, he would no longer get MSD on his non-lifetime boxes (though he may be eligible for the $99 lifetime on one of his other boxes)


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

SullyND said:


> It sounds to me like enofile has a lifetime box which has not called in. If he was getting MSD on his non-lifetime boxes, and the lifetime box has not called in, he would no longer get MSD on his non-lifetime boxes (though he may be eligible for the $99 lifetime on one of his other boxes)


MSD is predicated on a qualifying box that you paid full service price for.

According to the MSD discount FAQ's the qualifying lifetime box needs to have called home in the last 180 days.

So, if that is true. The lifetime service on the box has not expired, just it's eligibility as the original MSD unit. I would think that he should be able to hook it back up and force a call - if he still has the TiVo.



> Multi-Service Discount
> 
> We offer discounted TiVo service fees when you have more than one TiVo DVR on the same account. Call customer service at 1-877-367-8486 or log into your account on tivo.com for current offers.
> 
> ...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

enofile said:


> Okay, I wish to understand. When my wife purchased a Tivo as a gift for me in the year 2000, she was under the assumption it included a lifetime membership. However, I was just told, since I purchased two Tivo DVRs with no membership contract, my lifetime contract is effectively expired and I am basically a brand new customer. That "lifetime" expiration scares me, as it seems I have already experienced my demise.


Any TiVos you purchased,with or without a subscription of any kind to the TiVo service*, after your wife purchased that Series 1 (the only model available in 2000) would have no effect whatsoever on Product Lifetime Service which had been purchased for that Series 1, if PLS had been purchased for it.

Now, if PLS was purchased for that S1 prior to Jan 20, 2000 and then subsequently that PLS was moved to a different TiVo, and then eventually that different TiVo died, then that particular Product Lifetime Service subscription died with it.

Also, if PLS was purchased on or before Jan 20, 2000, it would have been eligible to be moved to another TiVo, but only once. It could not be moved from that second TiVo to a third one.

* (which is basically two things:

1. A license to use the software they wrote

and

2. The program guide information)


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