# Boardwalk Empire 2014



## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Am I correct that the series seems to have jumped ahead 7 years? In the final episode last season, when Hoover was in the interrogation room with Narcisse he said it was 26 years since Narcisse entered the US in 1898. That would obviously make it 1924. Then, at the beginning of this season it shows that they are in Cuba in 1931. So do we agree there is a 7 year jump or am I mistaken? Thanks.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

ADG said:


> Am I correct that the series seems to have jumped ahead 7 years? In the final episode last season, when Hoover was in the interrogation room with Narcisse he said it was 26 years since Narcisse entered the US in 1898. That would obviously make it 1924. Then, at the beginning of this season it shows that they are in Cuba in 1931. So do we agree there is a 7 year jump or am I mistaken? Thanks.


Yes that is true and its the last season.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I knew there was a jump because Rothstein was dead, but didn't realize it was that much.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I was much confused by this episode. What was Chalky doing on a chain gang?


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Thanks for confirming zalusky.

@Skippy - I'm guessing we'll find out in a flashback soon enough.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

This is one of my favorite tv shows ever. It's a shame they are wrapping it up so quickly in eight episodes.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> I knew there was a jump because Rothstein was dead, but didn't realize it was that much.


hmmm...when did they mention Rothstein was dead? I don't recall this.

I'm not questioning you, I'm hoping you can tell me so I can go back and find out what I missed without having to re-watch the entire episode.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Anubys said:


> hmmm...when did they mention Rothstein was dead? I don't recall this.
> 
> I'm not questioning you, I'm hoping you can tell me so I can go back and find out what I missed without having to re-watch the entire episode.


When Nucky saw Lansky in Cuba, they mentioned that they hadn't seen each other since "A.R.'s funeral"


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I'm enjoying it. I guess there are only 5 episodes left. They will fill in Nucky's childhood and his future. It seems we will miss the 7 years. Doesn't seem they are flashing back to that.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

"boy" that was good!


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

I thought it was a good episode but why did they spend so much time on Chalky? I figured he would probably kill his escape companion soon, so unless the two ladies show up later on they spent way too much time on that part of the story.

Gerry


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Gerryex said:


> I thought it was a good episode but why did they spend so much time on Chalky? I figured he would probably kill his escape companion soon, so unless the two ladies show up later on they spent way too much time on that part of the story.
> 
> Gerry


I thought about that as well given how few episodes there are left.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I thought it was another solid episode. Interesting ending. 4 left. I think I will be more than satisfied with the series as a whole and the last season so far has been better than I expected after being thrown off a little with the 7 year gap.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I loved Nucky and Margaret together. I'm enjoying how they're wrapping things up.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd rather have Chalky scenes than lil' Nucky scenes.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Sorry to see Sally go but what was she thinking?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Sorry to see Sally go but what was she thinking?


I think the Rum guy set up a trap and she was dead either way. I think she realized it and got desperate.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I would think many women in that situation would be worried that the "soldiers" would rape or beat them. Death may seem preferable.

But I would have liked to have seen her try harder to survive or at least take some of them with her. Once she had the gun, she should have taken cover as best she could. Or at least shot one or two of the goons.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> I think the Rum guy set up a trap and she was dead either way.


What gave you the impression that those men were allies of the Bacardi guy? I had the impression that they were pro labor and hated that guy.

I do think the Bacardi guy was doing something dishonest with Sally. Maybe taking her money and getting out of Cuba?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

john4200 said:


> What gave you the impression that those men were allies of the Bacardi guy? I had the impression that they were pro labor and hated that guy.
> 
> I do think the Bacardi guy was doing something dishonest with Sally. Maybe taking her money and getting out of Cuba?


Oh, he absolutely was leaving (witness the number of suitcases).

These people are all criminals, that's what gave me the impression! 

It's the normal setup...take the money and kill the bagman...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It must suck being an Al Capone henchman. You laugh, you get your ass kicked. You don't laugh, you get your ass kicked.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Although there are plenty of henchmen who laugh or don't laugh and don't get their asses kicked. I guess what really sucks is being an Al Capone henchmen whose ass he feels like kicking, because anything you do will give him the excuse he's looking for.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Laugh...but dont be the loudest one in the room....blend!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although there are plenty of henchmen who laugh or don't laugh and don't get their asses kicked. I guess what really sucks is being an Al Capone henchmen whose ass he feels like kicking, because anything you do will give him the excuse he's looking for.


Very Joe Pesci in Goodfella's like. Michael Imperioli must be nodding


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Desi Arnaz said the rum family name was pronounced "BA Cah DEE" and he was related to them.

So the real feds who will bust Al (NOT Elliot Ness) have a mole on his crew?

Funny how Margaret is whole different kind of woman now.

Are the Nucky flashbacks gonna pay off somehow?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Anubys said:


> Oh, he absolutely was leaving (witness the number of suitcases).
> 
> These people are all criminals, that's what gave me the impression!
> 
> It's the normal setup...take the money and kill the bagman...


What about the guy Sally got the money from? Weren't those soldiers that knocked on his door during her meeting with him? Maybe he put them on her.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> What about the guy Sally got the money from? Weren't those soldiers that knocked on his door during her meeting with him? Maybe he put them on her.


He was the sugar magnate(?) Bacardi needed the sugar supply. I have no idea why Nucky/Sally had to pay for it.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> He was the sugar magnate(?) Bacardi needed the sugar supply. I have no idea why Nucky/Sally had to pay for it.


oh...I thought he was the banker.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Anubys said:


> oh...I thought he was the banker.


That's what I thought. Nucky wired the money to him. Bacardi has their own sugar cane fields.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

There were 2 different guys...the guy at the bank who got the wire and Sally was flirting with and had to wait for the money and then there was the guy who she had to drive way out of the city to go deliver the money to. We saw military at both places. The 2nd guy I wasn't exactly sure if he was the Bacardi guy or he sells his sugar cane to Bacardi.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> There were 2 different guys...the guy at the bank who got the wire and Sally was flirting with and had to wait for the money and then there was the guy who she had to drive way out of the city to go deliver the money to. We saw military at both places. The 2nd guy I wasn't exactly sure if he was the Bacardi guy or he sells his sugar cane to Bacardi.


I thought it was the Bacardi guy telling her he needed the money to bribe the army into protecting his fields.

This is why I think he had her killed. He bribed the army to kill her.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Let me expand that thought...

The banker told the army they can't kill her at his bank. It would be bad for business to hand her the money and have her arrested and killed at his door. So they let her go and deliver the money THEN killed her.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> Let me expand that thought...
> 
> The banker told the army they can't kill her at his bank. It would be bad for business to hand her the money and have her arrested and killed at his door. So they let her go and deliver the money THEN killed her.


You lost me. Are you saying Ronis bribed the army to kill Sally before she even picked up the money from the banker? Or are you saying Ronis had nothing to do with killing Sally and it was the banker who was complicit with the army?

I still think it seems unlikely the soldiers were complicit with Ronis. One of them mentioned how badly Bacardi treats its laborers.

Maybe the soldiers were complicit with the banker, but that also seems unlikely. I had the impression the soldiers did not like wealthy capitalists at all.

NOTE: The one I have been calling the Bacardi guy is Ronis. Sally mentioned his name on the phone to Nucky. "What do I tell Ronis? He's expecting his good faith money."


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Let me expand that thought...
> 
> The banker told the army they can't kill her at his bank. It would be bad for business to hand her the money and have her arrested and killed at his door. So they let her go and deliver the money THEN killed her.


I don't agree. If that was the plan they would have just killed her and taken the money before she got there. My belief is the sugar cane guy was running from the military.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Sally met with two men during this episode. 

The first was the banker who Nucky wired the money to for Sally to pick up. During this meeting, the soldiers showed up outside the office door. It was not clear to me what they discussed with the banker, but it seemed a tense discussion.

The second meeting was with Ronis, who is an owner and/or executive at Bacardi. He said Senora Ronis, his wife, was going to Paris, but he was staying: "Mr. Thompson wants his rum. There is no rum without the sugarcane. And there is no sugarcane without the army. That is expensive. And that is what the money is for."

I think most likely the soldiers who killed Sally were not sent by either the banker or by Ronis. The soldiers probably disliked both men, but the men were influential enough that the soldiers could not touch them. But Sally was a soft target.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I agree that Ronis had nothing to do with Sally being stopped on the road and then killed, but leave open the possibility the banker did. There has to be a reason they showed the soldiers at his office.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

After Sally mentioned trouble in Oriente province, I looked up the biography of Fidel Castro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro



> Castro was born out of wedlock at his father's farm on August 13, 1926.[1] His father, Ángel Castro y Argiz, was a migrant to Cuba from Galicia, Northwest Spain.[2] He had become successful growing sugar cane at Las Manacas farm in Birán, Oriente Province,[3] and after the collapse of his first marriage, he took his household servant, Lina Ruz González, as his mistress and later second wife; together they had seven children, among them Fidel.


I wonder if we will see little 5-year-old Fidel running around in another episode.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cherry ghost said:


> I agree that Ronis had nothing to do with Sally being stopped on the road and then killed, but leave open the possibility the banker did. There has to be a reason they showed the soldiers at his office.


Another possibility that I just remembered is that Nucky saw Meyer Lansky in Cuba in a previous episode. I don't think we ever found out for sure what Meyer was doing. Probably setting up the hit on Nucky, but maybe also looking at taking Bacardi away from Nucky? If they expected Nucky to be with Sally in Cuba, maybe Meyer's boss bribed the army to capture and kill the American(s)?

I doubt the banker was involved. If he were, the army could have followed Sally and taken her somewhere on the long drive before she got to Ronis. Then the army could have gotten the money before she gave it to Ronis. But that is not what happened.

I still think the most likely thing is that Sally just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and she rubbed those soldiers the wrong way.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

cherry ghost said:


> I agree that Ronis had nothing to do with Sally being stopped on the road and then killed, but leave open the possibility the banker did. There has to be a reason they showed the soldiers at his office.


I don't think Ronis had anything to do with Sally being killed other than he is on the wrong side of the military.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Anubys said:


> Oh, he absolutely was leaving (witness the number of suitcases)...


Oh, I don't know. That's about the right amount of suitcases for my wife to take on a week's vacation.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I really liked last night's episode. All the story lines had me intrigued. Even the mental hospital which I was already growing tired.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Considering this is the final season, I could definitely live without the mental ward and youthful Nucky scenes other than to laugh at young Nuck's teefs.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I've kind of liked the back story. 

What happens to that girl that is currently with the young Nuck? Do we know already? I don't remember.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Mabel marries Nucky, gives birth to a sickly baby that dies after a day or so but she keeps caring for the corpse for several days like it is alive, until Nucky finally looks at it and sees it is dead. Mabel slits her wrists not long after that.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

john4200 said:


> Mabel marries Nucky, gives birth to a sickly baby that dies after a day or so but she keeps caring for the corpse for several days like it is alive, until Nucky finally looks at it and sees it is dead. Mabel slits her wrists not long after that.


Thanks. I assume that is one of the earlier seasons.

I also didn't remember that the series all started with the first episode directed by Martin Scorsese.

Good thing about getting old is I am going to be able to watch all these series over again like they are new.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

KenDC said:


> Thanks. I assume that is one of the earlier seasons.


Nucky tells Margaret about it in an earlier season.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Wow! How did they go about finding such good look-alikes for Steve and Dabney Coleman? That kid doing Buscemi jumped right in doing Steve's tics. Good job!

What surgery did the other mental patient have? Some butchery based on the doctor's theories? You'd' think that even in a loony bin after surgery they wouldn't stick you in a wheelchair and send you back unbandaged.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> What surgery did the other mental patient have? Some butchery based on the doctor's theories? You'd' think that even in a loony bin after surgery they wouldn't stick you in a wheelchair and send you back unbandaged.


The doctor is a quack. By that time, removing the uterus (and/or ovaries) was no longer considered a reasonable treatment for female insanity. But the doctor is as crazy as the patients.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Young Nucky was played by Marc Pickering who, once again, IS a BRIT!
It looks like he had a mouth appliance.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Young Nucky was played by Marc Pickering who, once again, IS a BRIT!


Although in this case it probably didn't matter, since it sounded to me like they dubbed in Buscemi's voice...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> What surgery did the other mental patient have? Some butchery based on the doctor's theories? You'd' think that even in a loony bin after surgery they wouldn't stick you in a wheelchair and send you back unbandaged.


I knew that scene was going to go someplace I didn't want to go so I jumped on the ffwd button. I have no idea how Gillian's story fits in with anybody else's at this point so I had no problem zooming past that bit. Unless she ends up with Nucky, her scenes seem like a waste of resources.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> I have no idea how Gillian's story fits in with anybody else's at this point so I had no problem zooming past that bit. Unless she ends up with Nucky, her scenes seem like a waste of resources.


I expect she will somehow meet up with Tommy Darmody, who seems to be working for Mickey Doyle.

Did you notice how Nucky looked at the boy a couple times when he came into the room? Nucky probably saw a resemblance to Jimmy, but he did not realize it or who he was looking at.

Also, I expect we will soon see in the Nucky flashbacks the time when Nucky "procured" Gillian for the Commodore. That is probably the worst thing Nucky has ever done, and it may come back to haunt him. Either that, or killing Jimmy (but Jimmy sort of deserved it for his betrayal). Either way, Nucky is not a friend of the Darmody's. Tommy will want his revenge.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although in this case it probably didn't matter, since it sounded to me like they dubbed in Buscemi's voice...


Didn't really sound like that to me. The actor did a great job playing a young Nucky, but his voice sounded natural to my ear.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

The scar was too high up for removing her ovaries, wasn't it?

Gillian also asks her if he did something to her mouth. So he either rapes them or cuts them open?

Nice catch on that Tommy Darmody thing. I just thought he saw himself in the young kid; someone who knows what to do and looks to move up in the world by working for the right people.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> The scar was too high up for removing her ovaries, wasn't it?


The scar we saw was almost certainly for removing the uterus. There could be another scar that was not visible if he removed the ovaries as well. But I think removing only the uterus is most likely.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What was up with Eli and Mueller's wife? He was so constantly drunk that he didn't remember banging her? I couldn't figure out why she was so *****y during dinner but then the payoff didn't make too much sense to me.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> What was up with Eli and Mueller's wife? He was so constantly drunk that he didn't remember banging her? I couldn't figure out why she was so *****y during dinner but then the payoff didn't make too much sense to me.


I guess that Eli forgot until he saw the King of Norvay, but she preceded that with "Eli can fix things. You don't need to be here..."

I was going to ask how Tommy could be a Darmody, but oh yeah, he's Jimmy's son.

So the doctor slices patients open and sews them up and sends them back to bed uncovered?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, that was a couple of big losses...

I guess with only two episodes left we can only expect the body count to grow, both in size and significance.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, that was a couple of big losses...
> 
> I guess with only two episodes left we can only expect the body count to grow, both in size and significance.


I saw those coming. I figured Van Alden would be the one to get it, and I'm guessing Eli makes it back to AC before the end of the show. And I figured Chaulky wouldn't survive his encounter with Narcisse.

So are we to surmise that Althea is Chaulky's daughter? I guess that's what they were insinuating.

The expression on the Fed implanted in Capone's gang was priceless. You could see how nervous he was and that he thought Eli would give him up.

I also guessed the two hookers were going to roll Nucky.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

RIP Chalky. The silent close reminded me of 24's silent clock.

I think the only person who didn't know Nucky was going to get rolled was Nucky.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> RIP Chalky. The silent close reminded me of 24's silent clock.


Except it wasn't silent! The record ended and it had the scratching of the needle hitting the final groove over and over...perfect.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

So AGENT NELSON VAN ALDEN decided to become a FEDERAL AGENT again and sacrifice himself to save his colleagues and the federal investigation.

I like that Eli said the Fed agent pressuring them is Elliot Ness. Ness actually did nothing but claim credit so that works with history.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I saw those coming. I figured Van Alden would be the one to get it, and I'm guessing Eli makes it back to AC before the end of the show. And I figured Chaulky wouldn't survive his encounter with Narcisse.
> 
> *So are we to surmise that Althea is Chaulky's daughter? I guess that's what they were insinuating.*
> 
> ...


Yes. I think the only reason why Daughter does not just tell Chalky straight up is that she figures that it would put her, the daughter, and Chalky in more danger with Narcisse. While Narcisse has no doubt figured it out himself, it is one thing thinking it and another thing hearing her confirm it.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Surprised no one has mentioned yet the Gillian revelation. She has always said the Commodore had chosen her from a float in a parade. Guess she tried to suppress all of that experience.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

frombhto323 said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned yet the Gillian revelation. She has always said the Commodore had chosen her from a float in a parade. Guess she tried to suppress all of that experience.


Well, we don't yet know how she went from under the boardwalk to the Commodore's bed.

I'm guessing Gillian was how Nucky finally got the Commodore to notice him. If so, she played a huge part in making him who he is today (and would be a payoff to the whole Gillian arc).


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> So AGENT NELSON VAN ALDEN decided to become a FEDERAL AGENT again and sacrifice himself to save his colleagues and the federal investigation.
> 
> I like that Eli said the Fed agent pressuring them is Elliot Ness. Ness actually did nothing but claim credit so that works with history.


I don't think he sacrificed himself. He just lost his temper and acted crazy, as he has done many times up to then...


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Eli is the world-class master betrayer. He can betray anyone, and live to betray another day.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Anubys said:


> Well, we don't yet know how she went from under the boardwalk to the Commodore's bed.
> 
> I'm guessing Gillian was how Nucky finally got the Commodore to notice him. If so, she played a huge part in making him who he is today (and would be a payoff to the whole Gillian arc).


Yeah. We saw some young girl get a warm greeting from the Commodore as she entered the house (hotel?) while what must have been her mother is walking away sheepishly. Creepy.

13 year old Gillian is supposed to win some beauty contest where the Commodore picks her out and has Nucky brings her to him.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Anubys said:


> *Well, we don't yet know how she went from under the boardwalk to the Commodore's bed.*
> 
> I'm guessing Gillian was how Nucky finally got the Commodore to notice him. If so, she played a huge part in making him who he is today (and would be a payoff to the whole Gillian arc).


True.



MikeAndrews said:


> Yeah. We saw some young girl get a warm greeting from the Commodore as she entered the house (hotel?) while what must have been her mother is walking away sheepishly. Creepy.
> 
> *13 year old Gillain is supposed to win some beauty contest where the Commodore picks her out and has Nucky bring her to him*.


That could be the case, as I did jump to a conclusion, but it is yet to be seen if that was Gillian's imagination talking or what really happened.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I just hope there is a payoff for all these flashbacks. I like the history, but this is stuff that we should have gotten before now.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pmyers said:


> I just hope there is a payoff for all these flashbacks. I like the history, but this is stuff that we should have gotten before now.


i agree, there's little reason left to have the info during the final season, it seems like filler to me.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I think I am the only one who is enjoying the flashback to young Nucky. I think we will tie the past with the beginning of the show. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw and opening scene in the finally. I can't believe there are only two shows left. They have to be jam packed...with a lot of people dying. I wonder who makes it? Capone for sure.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

KenDC said:


> I think I am the only one who is enjoying the flashback to young Nucky. I think we will tie the past with the beginning of the show. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw and opening scene in the finally. I can't believe there are only two shows left. They have to be jam packed...with a lot of people dying. I wonder who makes it? Capone for sure.


I like them too. Perhaps they could have introduced them earlier, but it has never been a "flashback" show. I like the idea that we got to know the characters before we learned what makes them who they are. Adds a different perspective to what we already know about them.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I fortified my theory that Marc has a huge mouthpiece in his mouth which primarily what gives him the Steve Buscemi voice, if that isn't dubbed. I wonder if they had to shoot fast before he gagged.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I just hope there is a payoff for all these flashbacks. I like the history, but this is stuff that we should have gotten before now.





NorthAlabama said:


> i agree, there's little reason left to have the info during the final season, it seems like filler to me.


I would be just as happy if there is no payoff. Why can't it be the story for the sake of the story? if the show had started with him young and worked its way to where we are now, would you say that the part when he was young was a waste?

The fact that it's in a flashback does not take away my enjoyment of it even if it does not pay off at the end. fwiw, I think it will tie in at the end.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I agree that if there is no payoff, then I really don't need the backstory (at this point). Just move the story forward.


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## jtonra (Oct 19, 2001)

I continue to be impressed with the casting of the flashbacks. I thought the kid playing young Eli really nailed his mannerisms as well.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I would have liked to seen a young Chalky flashback.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jtonra said:


> I continue to be impressed with the casting of the flashbacks. I thought the kid playing young Eli really nailed his mannerisms as well.


https://twitter.com/MarcPickering


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I bet that the flashback scenes and "current" scenes will be tied together with hurricanes. That one street vendor commented on how the color of the water was "hurricane water" or something like that.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

They're dropping like flies. Really not too many in this episode. I now wonder if Nucky is going to make it. The end of an empire with Nucky in the crosshairs almost seems like they are letting us know that his ultimate demise is coming. He is trying to end as a good person and make up for past digressions. I wonder if the stock money is going to go to his kids or if he will survive and that money is his way out. I guess the flashback was all to lead Nucky back to Gillian. Gillian didn't have the best life. You start to have more sympathy for her. Then again it seems like nobody has a great back story. One to go. Anybody know if it's any longer than the typical hour?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

KenDC said:


> They're dropping like flies. Really not too many in this episode. I now wonder if Nucky is going to make it.


By this point they've diverged from reality enough that reality is probably no guide, but in reality


Spoiler



Nucky Johnson, the "real" Nucky Thompson, went to prison for a few years in the 40s for tax evasion, then retired from politics and lived quietly for a couple decades before dying in 1968.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Gillian has gone from being the most detestable character on the show (and that is saying something, given the Commodore and Rosetti) to the most sympathetic, Harrow notwithstanding. I see now how the flashbacks are paying off. Also, a big thumbs up to the actress playing young Gillian. Just as the actor playing young Nucky is doing, she is nailing it. 

As for the stock move paying off for Nucky, there is that and there is also the life insurance policy on Mickey's head that Rothstein once owned and then sold to Nucky. I hope Nucky uses whatever resources he has left to rescue Gillian... before it is too late.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

And oh yeah, it's an actual song from that period:


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

agreed about the actors playing young Gillian and Nucky!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Did what Charlie(?) said to Bugsy in Yiddish(?) tell him to screw up the hostage exchange? And if it was Charlie, since when does he speak Yiddish? I guess he learned it on the streets.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

worst hostage exchange ever!


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Did what Charlie(?) said to Bugsy in Yiddish(?) to tell him to screw up the hostage exchange? And if it was Charlie, since when does he speak Yiddish? I guess he learned it on the streets.


Luciano and Lansky were in fact childhood friends so it is reasonable to assume he learned a bit of Yiddish from Lansky.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Gillian's letter to Nuck was addressed to "Sheriff Nucky Thompson"
It looked like she _is_ flipping out in loony bin hell.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

pmyers said:


> agreed about the actors playing young Gillian and Nucky!


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

KenDC said:


> I wonder if the stock money is going to go to his kids or if he will survive and that money is his way out.


It is not all that much money (for him, at least). Apparently he shorted $50,000 and then asked her to do another $50,000. So, his maximum gain is $100,000. Shorting stock is not a way to get rich. At best, if the stock goes to $0, then you make whatever you shorted.

To put that into perspective, he just gave around $1000 to the kid this episode.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> It is not all that much money (for him, at least). Apparently he shorted $50,000 and then asked her to do another $50,000. So, his maximum gain is $100,000. Shorting stock is not a way to get rich. At best, if the stock goes to $0, then you make whatever you shorted.
> 
> To put that into perspective, he just gave around $1000 to the kid this episode.


He sorted 50,000 _shares_. If the stock sells for $25, that's $1,250,500.

Remember that Nucky said he wanted the trades to be noticed. They have to be big to be noticed.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

MikeAndrews said:


> Gillian's letter to Nuck was addressed to "Sheriff Nucky Thompson"
> It looked like she _is_ flipping out in loony bin hell.


I thought she might have written that for a way to get him to come. To jog his memory back to a place where he was helping people or at least her. Lucky for her it might also be a time that he wants to even the scales incase he meets his maker soon.

...but I could be wrong.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> He sorted 50,000 _shares_. If the stock sells for $25, that's $1,250,500.


I just checked and you are right. Nucky only said 50,000 and I had assumed he meant dollars. But Margaret did say 50,000 *shares*, so that must be it. I wonder what the share price is. Mayflower Grain Corp. does not seem to be real as far as I can tell. Maybe it is supposed to represent a real corporation, but if so, I do not know which one.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

RIP Mickey "Hee Hee" Doyle.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> RIP Mickey "Hee Hee" Doyle.


Surprised it took so long, considering the insurance policy and all. But I figured he would have been one of the "gang" to eventually get hit.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> RIP Mickey "Hee Hee" Doyle.





Steveknj said:


> Surprised it took so long, considering the insurance policy and all. But I figured he would have been one of the "gang" to eventually get hit.


Somewhere along the missing 10 years Mickey replaced the silly grey derby, too. *

Eli: "How is it that you're still alive?"

What's amazing is how Eli controlled himself at the hostage exchange, and how he used his gangsta skills to off Manzetti. Why did they start out using knives, anyway?

Did Nucky's Cuban cutter get killed at the exchange?

*I like how everybody in the days up to the Kennedy 1960s wouldn't dream of leaving the house without wearing a hat -even the dirt poor kids.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Somewhere along the missing 10 years Mickey replaced the silly grey derby, too. *
> 
> Eli: "How is it that you're still alive?"
> 
> ...


Yes, Arquimedes was killed as well.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> What's amazing is how Eli controlled himself at the hostage exchange, and how he used his gangsta skills to off Manzetti. Why did they start out using knives, anyway?


I was wondering about that myself. It was a weird scene. I almost expected Maranzano to say "Et tu, Eli?" as he was dying.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Somewhere along the missing 10 years Mickey replaced the silly grey derby, too. *
> 
> Eli: "How is it that you're still alive?"
> 
> ...


The real life Maranzano liked to pontificate about the Roman Empire and Caesar, so he was killed with long knifes before being shot just as BE depicted it.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

KenDC said:


> I thought she might have written that for a way to get him to come. To jog his memory back to a place where he was helping people or at least her. Lucky for her it might also be a time that he wants to even the scales incase he meets his maker soon.
> 
> ...but I could be wrong.


That is my impression as well. She did it to remind him of how initially sought to rescue her.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

MikeAndrews said:


> Somewhere along the missing 10 years Mickey replaced the silly grey derby, too. *
> 
> Eli: "How is it that you're still alive?"
> 
> ...


Maranzano's office was on Park Avenue in a building full other businesses with civilians so I think the knives were a clever way to murder him relatively quietly so they could walk out casually after the scuffle and all that the bystanders saw was "a bunch of hats" as Eli told Nucky when it was over.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Jim_TV said:


> Maranzano's office was on Park Avenue in a building full other businesses with civilians so I think the knives were a clever way to murder him relatively quietly so they could walk out casually after the scuffle and all that the bystanders saw was "a bunch of hats" as Eli told Nucky when it was over.


Except that Eli shot him, just like the real life Maranzano was shot after being stabbed several times.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I was surprised that Eli's son went straight to work after being kidnapped.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> I was surprised that Eli's son went straight to work after being kidnapped.


He just witnessed Luciano et al. killing two people. It seems like they should be able to arrest and prosecute the bad guys for murder now. But I don't think that is the way they are going with it.

I did not like that hostage exchange scene at all. It seemed implausible and contrived the way it all went down.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I thought Luciano was going to shoot Eli's son in the leg to even the score.

I can't remember. What turned Luciano against Nucky?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Maybe Nucky will tell Charlie that Charlie's squeeze needs to be sprung from the loony bin.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I can't remember. What turned Luciano against Nucky?


Nothing but greed. They are making their move to take over and create the real/modern organized crime. They simply want what Nucky has.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

And he's not Italian.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> And he's not Italian.


Well, (pardon me if I butcher the name) Moseriano was italian and they tried (and eventually succeeded) to kill him. They wanted NY and Atlantic City. It didn't matter who had it.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Plus two of Lucky's right hand men weren't Italian either, Meyer Lansky and Benny Seigel. This is more of a power grab and consolidation and not a cultural thing.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Anubys said:


> They wanted NY and Atlantic City. It didn't matter who had it.


I thought it seemed more personal since Luciano referred to Atlantic City as a dump (or something to that effect).


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

goblue97 said:


> I thought it seemed more personal since Luciano referred to Atlantic City as a dump (or something to that effect).


It might be a dump to visit (especially compare to New York City), but still was making a lot of money.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Plus two of Lucky's right hand men weren't Italian either, Meyer Lansky and Benny Seigel. This is more of a power grab and consolidation and not a cultural thing.


Meyer would disagree...he's his own boss!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Meyer would disagree...he's his own boss!


Probably. Meyer and Luciano were childhood friends, maybe it's more accurate to say they were partners.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I have to say that no matter how it ends on Sunday that this has been a very enjoyable series in my eyes and I think it has been fairly even throughout.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Is there any new HBO series that is going to fill the gap between now and when GoT returns?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pmyers said:


> Is there any new HBO series that is going to fill the gap between now and when GoT returns?


i've only heard of the final season of the newsroom nov 9, and a 4 hour miniseries olive kitteridge nov 2nd & 3rd.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

The Comeback and Getting On also begin on Nov 9


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Eh, I really didn't like the way that ended.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

How izzit that we knew that the kid was Tommy Darmody, but Nucky didn't?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> How izzit that we knew that the kid was Tommy Darmody, but Nucky didn't?


Did we know? I strongly suspected. Mainly because it would be dramatic -- the sort of thing I would expect this show to do. Plus the way Nucky reacted when he first saw the boy was a clue the showrunners gave us that he was important.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DeDondeEs said:


> Eh, I really didn't like the way that ended.


Seemed fine to me.

Are you disappointed because Nucky got shot? I think he deserved it, for what he did to Gillian. Belated justice.

Or did you want to see bad things happen to Luciano et al.?


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

The series ended like I expected. And I'm going to miss it. I have to say I was a little skeptical about all the jumps in time back to Nucky's childhood and young adulthood earlier in the season, but they really ended up paying off to bring the story full circle. Nucky paid for his original sin in the end. 

Everywhere I read people are discussing that Nucky died from those gun shots from Tommy Darmody and I agree that is probably what is being portrayed on screen. But the series has portrayed fiction fairly closely in line with reality with the historical characters. The fact that the two men Nucky was suspicious of on the boardwalk right before he turned around and Tommy confronted and shot him turned out to be IRS agents give me some hope that the fictional Nucky Thompson actually didn't die. But instead he recovered from his wounds and lived on like his real life counterpart Nucky Johnson who was investigated for tax evasion in the 1930s and eventually tried and convicted after which he served four years in prison in the early '40s before eventually going on to live to the ripe old age of 85 and passing away quietly of natural causes in 1968.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

He's dead, Jim.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Does that mean Margaret just inherited two million dollars as well?


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

I'm fine with the ending. Poetic justice and all that. Man, was I wrong about that kid not being Tommy Darmody. Very disappointed that Nucky didn't spring Gillian, but that is ultimately who he is. The only unanswered question I have is why exactly was Chalky serving prison time?


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

frombhto323 said:


> I'm fine with the ending. Poetic justice and all that. Man, was I wrong about that kid not being Tommy Darmody. Very disappointed that Nucky didn't spring Gillian, but that is ultimately who he is. The only unanswered question I have is why exactly was Chalky serving prison time?


Didn't he say at one point? He was robbing stores with a gang and got busted.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Squeak said:


> Didn't he say at one point? He was robbing stores with a gang and got busted.


Ah yes, now that you mention it, I remember. It was somewhat incongruent to me that Chalky would get pinched for something that was relatively beneath him so I probably didn't process it at the time.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Great ending....and a nice synopsis here:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2...php=true&_type=blogs&partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Do you think that the writers had in mind to have the boardwalk wiped out by a hurricane?

There were 2 or 3 mentions, the last being when the Commodore said all of his legacy could be wiped out in a hurricane.

Earlier we had some guy saying the ocean was giving signs of a hurricane.

Or maybe it was supposed to be a forecast of Sandy wiping it all out.

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Was there a mention way earlier from Gillian that Nucky promised to take care of her always?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Nucky sure was hard on the Darmody's. Assuming Tommy goes away for murder, then that will be three generations of Darmody's that Nucky has destroyed.

Of course, arguably Jimmy and Tommy deserve punishment for the things they did. But they would not necessarily have done those things if Nucky had not betrayed Gillian years ago.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I guess that is why we had to skip all of those years (7?) to make Tommy old enough.

I thought it was an ending that was true to the characters.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I doubt Nucky could have even gotten her out of there as it was part of her plea bargain to keep from going to jail. 

I expected Nucky not to return to AC but I guess he had to go back for that book that had all the deeds and life insurance policies.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I thought this was an excellent ending. The way they brought the story full circle, just well done. While I enjoyed the flashbacks, I wondered why they spent so much time on them. But now that we know the full tale, I realize how masterful it was. Only by seeing how Nucky became Nucky can we understand everything and its place.

A few random thoughts...

Loved the beginning. Seeing the shoes on the shore, as the waves break on them. A recall to the opening credits, yet letting us know this time is different.

When Nucky tells a young Gillian he will always take care of her, just as he leaves her in the asylum.

The scene with Capone's deaf son. Wow. 

The scene with Eli, where Nucky talks about swimming past the point of no return. And how you don't know when you're there until you're there. Then the scene with the new sheriff Nucky, young Gillian and the Commodore. And the point of no return.

The final scene, in the mind of the dying Nuck, he finally grabs the gold.

El Dorado. Perfect title. 

One of my complaints over the seasons is how the first half of each season moves like molasses. They use it to setup the second half. And then the show always ends with a few superb episodes, and all is forgiven. Well, to their credit, they pulled everything together in one incredible finale.

Well done. I give the series an A-, and the finale an A+.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

pmyers said:


> I doubt Nucky could have even gotten her out of there as it was part of her plea bargain to keep from going to jail.
> 
> I expected Nucky not to return to AC but I guess he had to go back for that book that had all the deeds and life insurance policies.


From what I surmise, Nucky would be expected to expend whatever political and financial clout he has left to convince the medical staff that Gillian is fit to re-enter society. A nice hefty donation to the right politicians and/or doctors might have done it, since she is no longer on anyone's radar.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

frombhto323 said:


> From what I surmise, Nucky would be expected to expend whatever political and financial clout he has left to convince the medical staff that Gillian is fit to re-enter society. A nice hefty donation to the right politicians and/or doctors might have done it, since she is no longer on anyone's radar.


Also, it appeared that the doctor may have operated on her already. Since hysterectomy as a treatment for female insanity was largely discredited by that time, he might have used that as an excuse (or threat) to get her out. If he had bothered to find out what had happened to her, that is.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What was up with the woman from the future?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> What was up with the woman from the future?


She had to go outside into the sun to stand in front of a TV camera for the TV demo to work. There wouldn't be video on tape.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

It wasn't live, it was playing a loop. And did you notice the scan lines were vertical? (Not germane to your comment, just an observation of my own.)


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

I thought it was great and a perfect ending to the story.

Oddly enough, I didn't even realize it was the finale until about half-way through (I looked for upcoming episodes and didn't see any). Obviously, I don't really follow the show outside of watching it and for some reason thought there were one or two more.

But, really enjoyed it.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

KenDC said:


> I guess that is why we had to skip all of those years (7?) to make Tommy old enough.


Does it though? How old was Tommy before the 7 year jump?


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

tlc said:


> Does it though? How old was Tommy before the 7 year jump?


He had to have been 8 years old since he was 15 and 10 months old when Mickey Doyle hired him in the alley way to load trucks for Mr. Thompson a few episodes before the finale.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> And did you notice the scan lines were vertical?


I noticed that but didn't understand it or that whole scene, really.


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

Here's an interview with Terence Winter, the show's creator, on the finale...

Great read.

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...e-winter-on-nuckys-fate-and-the-series-finale


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