# All 4 Tuners locked or Black!



## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I know this has been discussed before, but has there ever been a solution? 
I have a 4 Tuner P4 and had this happen twice in 2 days now. It has happened before but can go for MONTHS without it happening again. I just go to help-restart and all is OK, but I am worried that this has happened twice in 2 days. Would pulling the power and causing a reset as opposed to the help-restart resolve anything?

I am not convinced that I have any hardware issue(s))...YET!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

WOW, I thought I would get several suggestions and/or links!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Can you just not play live TV? Not play any recordings? Or is the whole UI locked up?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

MPSAN said:


> I know this has been discussed before, but has there ever been a solution?
> I have a 4 Tuner P4 and had this happen twice in 2 days now. It has happened before but can go for MONTHS without it happening again. I just go to help-restart and all is OK, but I am worried that this has happened twice in 2 days. Would pulling the power and causing a reset as opposed to the help-restart resolve anything?
> 
> I am not convinced that I have any hardware issue(s))...YET!


If you are saying that any MPEG video feeds will not play but the TiVo menu still displays then I suggest you call TiVo as I had both of my Premiere 4s recently replaced because of this.

When this happens I lose all video and audio on the 4 tuners, can not play any recordings from the hard drive, can not play any recordings from my other TiVo, can not play any streaming videos from Amazon or Vudu.
I have had the video/audio stop working while watching live TV, watching a recording, streaming a recording, and watching a movie on Amazon Prime.
I have had this happen to me since late spring, early summer of last year. I could happen once a month, once a week, once or twice in a day. There is no set pattern or reason that I could determine why this happens.

You can navigate the TiVo menu, the Opera app store, the menu systems from Netflix, Amazon, or Vudu.

TiVo does not really monitor this site so you should call TiVo Support to see what they may do.
One of my replacement TiVos just did this again. There is also some Raomio owners that are experiencing this issue.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Thanks ALL:

Yes, I can still get a menu and play recordings it is just the tuners are frozen! I can call TIVO and see what they say.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

MPSAN said:


> Thanks ALL:
> 
> Yes, I can still get a menu and play recordings it is just the tuners are frozen! I can call TIVO and see what they say.


That is basically the issue I been having. I have received some negative blow back from members on this forum that this is my problem only.

Definitely report this to TiVo so it gets on their radar screen. Make sure to inform them that your menus display so they do not confuse this with an HDMI issue. I think it is the MPEG decoder getting locked up as the only way to get the box working again is to reboot the unit.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> That is basically the issue I been having. I have received some negative blow back from members on this forum that this is my problem only.
> 
> Definitely report this to TiVo so it gets on their radar screen. Make sure to inform them that your menus display so they do not confuse this with an HDMI issue. I think it is the MPEG decoder getting locked up as the only way to get the box working again is to reboot the unit.


He said that he can play recordings which sounds different than your report that you can't play recordings?

Scott


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> Thanks ALL:
> 
> Yes, I can still get a menu and play recordings it is just the tuners are frozen! I can call TIVO and see what they say.


Yep saw it a few times on my Elite before I upgraded to Roamio last year, if you search you'll probably see posts by moyekj and others about it too - theory is that the 4-tuner boxes have some sort of hardware issue that Tivo can't fix and the only solution is a reboot. I don't think I've seen this reported with the 2-tuner boxes. I've also never seen it on the Roamio, but it has another weird issue where it will, on rare occasions, fail to record something claiming that it had a 'problem getting tuner' even though all tuners are fine afterwards.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep saw it a few times on my Elite before I upgraded to Roamio last year, if you search you'll probably see posts by moyekj and others about it too - theory is that the 4-tuner boxes have some sort of hardware issue that Tivo can't fix and the only solution is a reboot. I don't think I've seen this reported with the 2-tuner boxes. I've also never seen it on the Roamio, but it has another weird issue where it will, on rare occasions, fail to record something claiming that it had a 'problem getting tuner' even though all tuners are fine afterwards.


That was an issue with the XL4 and not the Premiere 4, which is the unit he has.
He is describing the same issue I have from time to time. You lose the ability to view any MPEG content. The unit will actually record a program while in this state but what is basically happening the unit can not output any MPEG content.
Having the box replaced with another unit does not resolve the issue as both of mine have been replaced and I had it occur twice with the replacement units.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I also have a Premiere XL4 and have not had this issue. I believe that when a show does record in this condition, the recording is blank, but I can undelete it and see if it does play now that I have rebooted.

UPDATE

No, it does not play. Just a mostly black screen with a few pixels now and then. It "thinks" it is recording a show but it is recording from tuners that are messed up until a restart.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think this issue was tracked back to the tuning adapter wasn't it? Have you ever tried just rebooting the TA when it happens?


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Dan203 said:


> I think this issue was tracked back to the tuning adapter wasn't it? Have you ever tried just rebooting the TA when it happens?


I do not have a TA.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Hmmm.... could be the power supply. A failing power supply can cause all sorts of wonky issues.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep saw it a few times on my Elite before I upgraded to Roamio last year, if you search you'll probably see posts by moyekj and others about it too - theory is that the 4-tuner boxes have some sort of hardware issue that Tivo can't fix and the only solution is a reboot. I don't think I've seen this reported with the 2-tuner boxes.





Jed1 said:


> That was an issue with the XL4 and not the Premiere 4, which is the unit he has.


My experience has been the exact opposite.

My Elite/XL4, which I still have and use, has not had this issue, in a very long time.

While my 2-Tuner Premiere (upgraded to 2TB) used to do this all the time. But much less frequently after the switch to Haxe. I gave this one to my mother and she has not mentioned having any issues. I have her reboot the DVR and Tuning Adapter every month.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Jed1 said:


> That was an issue with the XL4 and not the Premiere 4, which is the unit he has.
> He is describing the same issue I have from time to time. You lose the ability to view any MPEG content. The unit will actually record a program while in this state but what is basically happening the unit can not output any MPEG content.
> Having the box replaced with another unit does not resolve the issue as both of mine have been replaced and I had it occur twice with the replacement units.


You need to go back and read what he posted - the error is with the tuners, not mpeg2 playback. He specifically said that he can watch recordings. The problem happens on all 4-tuner Premieres but no one has been able to pin down why.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

...and for the past few days all has been OK!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, all has been OK for a MONTH. Last night I saw this again. I think this is something that just happens. I have been doing a reboot from the help menu. Should I just try to power it down and see what happens? I am not convinced that there is anything wrong with the Drive...or TIVO PS for that matter!


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

I was reading the new TiVo Bolt manual and I came across this interesting paragraph in the troubleshooting section.



> MY TIVO BOLT WAS WORKING, BUT NOW THE
> PICTURE IS FROZEN.
>  Try changing channels several times.
>  Press PAUSE, then PLAY .
> ...


This is on page 74 of the manual.
http://assets.tivo.com/assets/resources/HowTo/BOLT_VG_31AUG2015.pdf

This is how the black screen starts for me. The picture will freeze up and stay that way until I try changing channels or go to the TiVo menu. Once you do that then the video will be black.
It is apparent that TiVo can't fix this issue so the proper procedure is just to reboot the box. So even if we get the Bolt we will run into this same problem.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I can not believe that they can not fix this. It is a pain as shows record but are not viewable. My screens are not BLACK, but have a few bands of pixels in some areas, but are mostly black. Previous shows are OK, but the tuners are all like this until I reboot!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Well it's been like this ever since the 4-tuner boxes came out, so it seems to be a hardware problem they either can't replicate or fix. Call them and see if they can setup logging for your box, assuming it happens often enough for them to catch the problem.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Jed1 said:


> I was reading the new TiVo Bolt manual and I came across this interesting paragraph in the troubleshooting section.
> 
> This is on page 74 of the manual.
> http://assets.tivo.com/assets/resources/HowTo/BOLT_VG_31AUG2015.pdf
> ...


Jeez man, stop derailing this thread. What happens on the Bolt has NOTHING to do with completely different tuners on the Premieres.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Well it's been like this ever since the 4-tuner boxes came out, so it seems to be a hardware problem they either can't replicate or fix. Call them and see if they can setup logging for your box, assuming it happens often enough for them to catch the problem.


Well, it seems to not happen often enough. How often does it have to happen for them to catch it?


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

MPSAN said:


> Well, it seems to not happen often enough. How often does it have to happen for them to catch it?


From my last communication with TiVo in August, they no longer can monitor the logs on your unit as they lost that capability in the spring of this year.

I have been dealing with this issue through TiVo since it started for me with the Summer (Haxe) update. Unfortunately all the data I supplied was lost in TiVo Supports transition in the spring. I have had my units replaced 6 times since February of this year.
I had this happen again on my 6th replacement unit on the 25th of September but I gave up with TiVo support as now they will just keep replacing the units until I get one that doesn't do this.
I have also had a test box from my cable company sitting right next to the TiVo and that does not exhibit any tuner issues. Also this will not happen at the same time on both my TiVo's.
I also have been changed over to a whole new cable system on the 31st of March and still have the issue. 
I can not get a Roamio replacement as I have lifetime service so they have to keep giving me Premiere 4s. They suggested I buy the Roamio and if it does it with in thirty days I can return to get my money back. I asked if the Roamio was doing this and I was told that they could not discuss any on going issues with customers.

Here is my first report of this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10213883#post10213883
This is the summer update thread and you are 4 replies below mine if we are talking about the same issue. The one important thing is I did not have this issue before that release. I never experienced the issue that other members are talking about.
Those members also have not owned a Premiere for a long while so they have not experienced this issue and are possibly confusing it with something else.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Jed1 said:


> From my last communication with TiVo in August, they no longer can monitor the logs on your unit as they lost that capability in the spring of this year.


Where did you hear TiVo could no longer monitor the logs?
How do you think Beta Field Testing works? they monitor the logs, and you upload them when you catch an issue.

If one of your Premiere 4 is stock you should ask to have it placed in Field Trials and report it there.

The beta team will even send out a loaner P4 if none of yours are stock.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

CoxInPHX said:


> Where did you hear TiVo could no longer monitor the logs?
> How do you think Beta Field Testing works? they monitor the logs, and you upload them when you catch an issue.
> 
> If one of your Premiere 4 is stock you should ask to have it placed in Field Trials and report it there.
> ...


TiVo Support told me this. They said that they lost that capability in the spring of this year. All the communications I had with TiVo from last summer up to the spring of this year has been lost so I have to start all over with this issue.

It would have been nice if this field trial thing was mentioned to me last summer but to much time has passed and now the Series 6 units are out and I doubt TiVo will do any more work with the Series 4.

In my last Conversation with TiVo in August, they agreed to just keep replacing the units until I get two that doesn't do this. I refused as this seems really stupid and is just a complete waste of my time.
In fact the last phone call I had with support I spent the first 15 minutes trying to convince the CSR that I do not have Comcast as a cable provider and this issue is not related to the MPEG4 update.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Well it happened again last night at 11:50PM. I was watching a recording of Frontline that was streaming from my other TiVo and the picture froze and went black.
Went out to live TV and all four tuner were black. I removed and reinstalled the coax cable, removed and reinstalled the CableCard, removed and reinstalled the HDMI cable, tried component and composite cables, removed and reinstalled the Ethernet cable, connected to the service, tried Amazon and Vudu but would not play any videos, went upstairs and played the same video that I was watching and it played fine, while there I selected a video from the frozen unit and it played fine on the upstairs unit, I transferred a video from the upstairs unit to the downstairs unit but it would not play but can play it from the upstairs unit.

When I looked at the signal levels all 4 tuners had perfect levels and had a lock on the channel. Tuners 1, 2, and 3 had a lock on the channel but had no lock on the program and had no PCR or Video PID. Tuner 0 had a channel lock and a program lock but would not play. Tuner 0 was the only tuner that would show in the conditional access menu since it had a program lock and showed the PCR and Video PID. I also had no closed caption selection when I brought of the channel info. 

Rebooted the unit at 12:35 AM and is working fine again. I got an email from TiVo about a support issue from back in June so I gave them all bad marks and explained what just happened last night. This support ticket was for the replacement of the TiVo in my living room which was replaced again and this is the one that I had the black screen issue last night.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Jed1,

Next time this happens, go to your CableCARD Diagnostic Menu and look to see if the CC still has an OOB Lock (or Cisco DAVIC Lock).

Also look for CableCARD RS Errors, and if the CC has the correct time, to see if that might be the issue.

EDIT: I see you have already done this before.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10213883#post10213883


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

CoxInPHX said:


> Jed1,
> 
> Next time this happens, go to your CableCARD Diagnostic Menu and look to see if the CC still has an OOB Lock (or Cisco DAVIC Lock).
> 
> ...


Yea the OOB has a lock and there is no issue with the CableCard. I really think it has to do with some type of issue with decoding the MPEG data stream. It seems like it gets over loaded and then just stops decoding and you can't play any video from any source until you reboot the unit.

I am going to type up another email to support and see if I can push them to replace these with different models. If not I think I am done with TiVo. I hate to give up but I am tired of wasting my life on this type of nonsense.
My cable company went above and beyond on this issue but we both agree this is a TiVo issue and they will not come to my house for this issue anymore. They said either I or TiVo will have to pay for the truck roll.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, when my 4 tuners give me the black screen I CAN watch what has been recorded. My Premeire 4 XL does NOT have this problem!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Jed is intent on hijacking your thread with playback issues (not tuner issues) instead of starting a new thread. You just have to live with the nonsense here.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Jed is intent on hijacking your thread with playback issues (not tuner issues) instead of starting a new thread. You just have to live with the nonsense here.


OK, yes, I had mentioned that it is only a tuner issue.

OH, we used to travel to the ATL area and stayed in the Perimeter Center area.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

slowbiscuit said:


> Jed is intent on hijacking your thread with playback issues (not tuner issues) instead of starting a new thread. You just have to live with the nonsense here.


I have tuner issues. I get the v53 error message for each tuner but there is nothing wrong with the signal or CableCard. In my case I lose all video play back capability.
You are discussing the problem with the XL4 and not the Premiere 4. TiVo Premiere 4 is the unit they use in the MSOs. When I view my other Premiere 4 from my other Premiere 4 in says TiVo Premiere Q. And yes mine are retail units.
If I remember correctly I was told at some point that the tuner issues with the XL4 is not related to this issue. How accurate that is, is beyond me.

What you fail to understand is I went through all this with TiVo since last summer which led them to replace both my units this spring. Now those two units are doing it.

You admitted on bailing on the Premiere line well over a year ago so how do you know if this is not a software issue? How do you know that my problem and his problem is not related?
You also admit that the problem with the tuners is just a theory and not fact. 
Here is the first time I reported this issue as it never happened on my units before that update and take a look who responded to my post. YOU! 
You never post about offering any help, you just post to criticize people.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10213883#post10213883
And then two posts below that was MPSAN posting about losing his tuners.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

No one knows what the tuner problem is with the 4-tuner premieres, but I do know that you are derailing this thread with another issue. That's it.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, we did just get an update and this morning my XL4 had all 4 tuners with a black screen. I can watch shows and I fixed it with a reboot.


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