# 20.7.4.RC30 has arrived......



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Had an automatic connection failure at 3:24 am. Saw this when I got up. Forced a connection and......GEN3 RC30...Same *20*.7*.4*. What's in it???



Discuss...I gotta go out for the day!


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

bug fixes


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> bug fixes


I'm much more worried about what they broke.


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Maybe this RC30 was hanging around in my Roamio and hadn't been applied yet and created my issue in this thread. When I checked yesterday late it certainly wasn't there. The RC30 is shown NOW but it wasn't after the 'call home' this AM 7:00 AM or so. the restart that fixed MY SHOWS was done 8:30 or so this AM. All times EST.

MY SHOWS - displays 'ALL' as not being viewed


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Oh! I just looked and see that one of mine is on 'pending restart' from this morning's connection. (Bolt)

Agree with Joe. Just hope they don't screw up stuff that is currently working right. Have some recordings coming up on this box so I'm not going to do a restart at this time.


----------



## Kaphka (Dec 15, 2008)

I noticed one difference. (This actually changed before the update, but server-side changes are usually coordinated with updates.)

The icon for videos available on Amazon Prime Video now just says "Prime". The icon for videos available for purchase from Amazon now says "Prime Video".

So, going forward, "Prime" now means "this video is available on Prime." "Prime Video" means "this video is not available on Prime." Got it?

It looks like this wasn't TiVo's mistake, just a correct implementation of Amazon's idiotic branding decision.


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Got it on my Roamio Pro. The basic Roamio is still on 20.7.4.RC18 despite a forced connection and reboot.


----------



## davidscarter (Sep 28, 2015)

Got 20.7.4.RC30 this afternoon on my Roamio. No longer have any program icons in the discovery bar or elsewhere. No app icons either. Resetting the interface did not fix. Grr.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

For those that are wondering, here's an overview of what's in the latest release for TE3, aka Encore, aka 20.7.4.RC30:

Features:
- Full support for "Sports Pass" enhancements to OnePass, allowing you to create recordings for individual teams, leagues, playoffs, etc.
- Support (on BOLT and MINI VOX) for running the Amazon app in 4K. Amazon will allow us to turn on 4K as soon as all boxes are updated and verified.

Bug fixes - lots of them, but here are some highlights:
- Problems with boxes getting software updates during guided setup
- Buffer lost when starting a recording
- Watching recorded show, recording ends and switches live TV channel
- HDMI connection not permitted error
- Lost support for Bluetooth slide remote
- Advance jump-to-tick mark not working during FF/REW on MINI VOX
- Zoom key from TC does not return to recording
- Missing VOD app on MINI VOX
- Transferring programs causing program name to change
- Reboot on Premiere when changing CC settings
- OnePasses defaulting to SD
- MOCA network settings missing an option
- Missing MOCA details in Network Status screen
- V312 errors when launching certain apps
- C button not switching from Spanish back to English
- Zoom/Back behavior issues on MINI VOX
- VOD not displaying movie posters
- Using D to jump to HD channel not working properly
- CableCARD "test channels" not working on some Series 6 (BOLT) boxes
- Intermittent freezes/stuttering on MINI
- Rating lock issue in Parental Controls
- Intermittent Audio/Video connection problems
- Left out of View Upcoming Episodes not working properly
- Aspect ratio not working properly on SD channels
- MINI VOX disconnect issues
- Intermittent issues with tuning adapters
- VOD playback/stuttering issues
- A couple of issues when launching Netflix
- Hulu assets freezing after 30-45 minutes playback
- YouTube app intermittent freezes


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

davidscarter said:


> Got 20.7.4.RC30 this afternoon on my Roamio. No longer have any program icons in the discovery bar or elsewhere. No app icons either. Resetting the interface did not fix. Grr.


Can you post a photo please?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Will release notes be posted here -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information ?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those that are wondering, here's an overview of what's in the latest release for TE3, aka Encore, aka 20.7.4.RC30:


Is there some award for not having any of those problems? I don't even have a 4k TV.


----------



## davidscarter (Sep 28, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Can you post a photo please?


Yes, I can!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Anyone have their Mini get the update? I just forced a connection and nada.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Still RC18 on my Roamio. Crossing my fingers that RC30 fixes music playback again.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

today's scheduled connection is in about 30min, fingers crossed.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I just checked my other Bolt and it's pending restart, also. I don't know what's making me so apprehensive, but I haven't wanted to restart either of them.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Is this Roamios too, or just Bolts?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Is this Roamios too, or just Bolts?


Posts 7 & 8 seem to be a Roamio.


----------



## WhenenRome (Nov 13, 2010)

I just checked to see what version my Roamio OTA is currently... Should I be concerned that it was still on RC*14*? I was even on Tivo_Ted's priority update list that he mentioned again recently, lol...

(Trying to push an update right now... so far, doesn't look like it's happening.)

BTW, I visited the forum to check on a very weird bug that started happening yesterday: It won't UN-pause with the Pause or Play buttons. The Skip-Back button is a work-around, for now.

EDIT: Mrizzo just cleared up for me that this update is for the previous Tivo interface only. Sorry, I didn't catch that before.

EDIT #2: My attempt at an update push actually helped with the original problem! After I re-started the box, the "Can't UN-pause" glitch was corrected. Everything happens for a reason, even on a DVR...


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Kaphka said:


> I noticed one difference. (This actually changed before the update, but server-side changes are usually coordinated with updates.)
> 
> The icon for videos available on Amazon Prime Video now just says "Prime". The icon for videos available for purchase from Amazon now says "Prime Video".
> 
> ...


both my bolt running hydra and roamio basic running Encore, aka 20.7.4.RC18 have the renamed amazon apps


----------



## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

WhenenRome said:


> I just checked to see what version my Roamio OTA is currently... Should I be concerned that it was still on RC*14*? I was even on Tivo_Ted's priority update list that he mentioned again recently, lol...
> 
> (Trying to push an update right now... so far, doesn't look like it's happening.)


Sounds like you are on Hydra. This update is for people on the previous interface.


----------



## WhenenRome (Nov 13, 2010)

mrizzo80 said:


> Sounds like you are on Hydra. This update is for people on the previous interface.


Ah, thanks for the clarification, Mrizzo!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

WhenenRome said:


> I just checked to see what version my Roamio OTA is currently... Should I be concerned that it was still on RC*14*? I was even on Tivo_Ted's priority update list that he mentioned again recently, lol...
> (Trying to push an update right now... so far, doesn't look like it's happening.)
> BTW, I visited the forum to check on a very weird bug that started happening yesterday: It won't UN-pause with the Pause or Play buttons. The Skip-Back button is a work-around, for now.


Perhaps you are running 21.7.2.RC14? That's Hydra. the classic UI is 20.7.4.RC18 until you get RC30.

BTW, that's quite a jump.  What's next? Hexadecimal?


----------



## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

davidscarter said:


> Yes, I can!
> 
> View attachment 33127
> View attachment 33128
> View attachment 33129


I just applied the update maybe 20 minutes ago and this is what I'm looking at now too. I tried the UI refresh 3 times so far and it hasn't made a difference. I even tried a full box reboot on top of that and that didn't work either.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

- *MINI VOX disconnect issues*

Will these fixes be coming to Hydra? it seems the Hydra UI on Mini VOX occasionally loses connection to the TiVO DVR while the underlying network connection is still connected. This under MOCA network running 21.7.2.RC14. If you hit Live button it immediately reconnects.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

chrishicks said:


> I just applied the update maybe 20 minutes ago and this is what I'm looking at now too. I tried the UI refresh 3 times so far and it hasn't made a difference. I even tried a full box reboot on top of that and that didn't work either.


Same thing on my Roamio Plus.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

CloudAtlas said:


> - *MINI VOX disconnect issues*
> 
> Will these fixes be coming to Hydra? it seems the Hydra UI on Mini VOX occasionally loses connection to the TiVO DVR while the underlying network connection is still connected. This under MOCA network running 21.7.2.RC14. If you hit Live button it immediately reconnects.


Definitely!


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

Lurker1 said:


> Still RC18 on my Roamio. Crossing my fingers that RC30 fixes music playback again.


Roamio Plus updated to RC30 today. Music playback still not fixed.


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

Also have others have reported the first thing I noticed were missing App icons.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

davidscarter said:


> Yes, I can!
> 
> View attachment 33127
> View attachment 33128
> View attachment 33129


Are the logos showing up in the channel guide in grid mode?


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Are the logos showing up in the channel guide in grid mode?


Yes.


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

Also in My Shows all the graphics are there but are generic.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Are the logos showing up in the channel guide in grid mode?


Yes.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Can you post a photo please?


Same for me too. Clarification: have network logos in guide but missing thumbnails in recordings and TiVo Central top bar.


----------



## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Same for me too. Clarification: have network logos in guide but missing thumbnails in recordings and TiVo Central top bar.


Just restarted and am seeing the exact same behavior.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

My Bolt and Roamio updated to RC30 and only Roamio is missing the icons like others here have noted.


----------



## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

Just booted up RC30 for the first time. I'm also not seeing any icons or show specific art work.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Okay, thanks for the reports. I'm pulling the alarm bell and putting the release on hold until we can investigate further.


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Major plus with this update. It appears that I'm no longer getting the delay coming out of FF1 back to play. Can't be totally sure since the behavior was somewhat random, but I'm optimistic. Others seeing the same thing?

Edit: am seeing some delay now coming out of a long pause, but not as long as before.


----------



## celtic pride (Nov 8, 2005)

Wow! thats a lot of fixes! I cant wait to see how sports pass looks and works! p.s. tivo ted Can we get tivo to add the nba app for nba league and nba team pass? and directvnow app ASAP.


----------



## davidscarter (Sep 28, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Are the logos showing up in the channel guide in grid mode?


Yes, channel logos show up in both grid & live guide modes.


----------



## computersteve (Jun 10, 2016)

“Hulu assets freezing after 30-45 minutes playback
- YouTube app intermittent freezes”

Idk I have a problem believing this... this has been going on for ages lol i’d Love it if someone with the update could actually see if it’s fixed


----------



## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm missing icons too. However, TiVo Service Connection seems to be going awfully slow. I tried an update after unplugging it. I'm hoping to get SkipMode on some shows that normally have it once this update goes through, assuming that somehow helps.

It finished, and still no SkipMode on various shows that I expect. Going to try connecting three times. No luck.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

I was wondering what this talk of logos is about. I have logos on the LIVE guide, but upon more inspection, the detail info entries in My Shows do not have the little logo in the right box, lower left like it used to. It would have taken me a while to find that. It was always so small anyway. Very strange. Lots of fixes in this though. But I am with Joe, never had most of those bugs.


----------



## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

computersteve said:


> "Hulu assets freezing after 30-45 minutes playback
> - YouTube app intermittent freezes"
> 
> Idk I have a problem believing this... this has been going on for ages lol i'd Love it if someone with the update could actually see if it's fixed


I'm on Hydra, but it's fixed there without any other discernible changes to the app.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Okay, thanks for the reports. I'm pulling the alarm bell and putting the release on hold until we can investigate further.





PSU_Sudzi said:


> Same for me too. Clarification: have network logos in guide but missing thumbnails in recordings and TiVo Central top bar.


Same issue here. I forced a service connection last night after rebooting for the update and no change. I've not had a chance to do a second reboot. This is a Roamio Pro.

Ted, any word on fixing the music playback issue from Roamio's through TiVo Desktop (or pyTivo)? This was broken and then fixed and then broken again so they reverted their fix at some point (which would seem to be a code version control issue?).

Scott


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

My living room Bolt updated and restarted overnight. Is it my imagination, or did the video get even better AND the audio is cleaner? Now, granted, I'm blind as a bat and half deaf with tinnitis but my video looks brighter and crisper, as well as not having to crank up the audio as much and be able to hear.

I just have your basic, several years old, HD TV. It's always been fine to me, but then I didn't even have HD until I got my Premieres, some 6-7 years ago. It still says 1080p in the system info. I really feel like there is a difference since the rc30 update.

Not noticing anything else different except the thing in 'apps' where the Amazon entity references are changed to two separate ones, neither of which has 'Amazon' in the description.


----------



## computersteve (Jun 10, 2016)

mrizzo80 said:


> I'm on Hydra, but it's fixed there without any other discernible changes to the app.


Actually on Hydra the problem still exists... its just some users aren't experiencing it.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sharkster said:


> Not noticing anything else different except the thing in 'apps' where the Amazon entity references are changed to two separate ones, neither of which has 'Amazon' in the description.


That's not related to RC30. The app "Prime Membership" is the old Amazon Prime. The app "Prime Video" is the old Amazon Video ($). The logo sucks.


----------



## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Okay, thanks for the reports. I'm pulling the alarm bell and putting the release on hold until we can investigate further.


A bit too late for me. My Bolt updated overnight. I can live without logos though.


----------



## El Maestro (Nov 19, 2013)

I too got the update on my Roamio Pro and lost the artwork...was going crazy with reboots until I saw this thread so I'll chill for now, haha.


----------



## headless chicken (Oct 8, 2004)

celtic pride said:


> *Wow! thats a lot of fixes! *


And a lot of new bugs as well. Oh, Tivo. You can't seem to get anything right anymore.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

headless chicken said:


> And a lot of new bugs as well.


 Besides losing artwork icons on my Roamio it seems pretty stable and robust to me. I've got it on my Bolt+ too.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

headless chicken said:


> And a lot of new bugs as well. Oh, Tivo. You can't seem to get anything right anymore.


"A lot of new bugs" other than the missing logos? Like what?


----------



## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Okay, thanks for the reports. I'm pulling the alarm bell and putting the release on hold until we can investigate further.


The lab rats are dying one by one, pull the plug on the project!


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Same for me too. Clarification: have network logos in guide but missing thumbnails in recordings and TiVo Central top bar.


After restart to RC30 I am also missing all Icons including the Apps and Remote TiVo device Icons. Guide network icons are still there.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I just have to say that Friday seems like the worst possible day to roll out a software update. If something goes wrong like it seems to have here, it'll be messed up until at least Monday when everyone gets back to work.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> After restart to RC30 I am also missing all Icons including the Apps and Remote TiVo device Icons. Guide network icons are still there.


 On which device? My Bolt+ and Roamio received RC30 but the Premiere did not. The Roamio was the only one that had the missing icons.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

rdrrepair said:


> On which device? My Bolt+ and Roamio received RC30 but the Premiere did not. The Roamio was the only one that had the missing icons.


Only my RoamioPro is missing the icons and poster art,
- Bolt+ is fine, and also got RC30
- Bolt is running Hydra
- XL4 is still on RC18
- Minis are still on RC18


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TKnight206 said:


> I'm missing icons too. However, TiVo Service Connection seems to be going awfully slow. I tried an update after unplugging it. I'm hoping to get SkipMode on some shows that normally have it once this update goes through, assuming that somehow helps.
> 
> It finished, and still no SkipMode on various shows that I expect. Going to try connecting three times. No luck.


I have RC30 on my Roamio and some shows that normally do, aren't getting skip date either. Namely Gotham and Arrow. The Late Show is also hit or miss with regards to skip data.

On a side note, some shows do have skip data, but no skip icon. That's not a new bug though.

And like others, there's no show images anymore. There's no just a generic image with text. This was definitely working yesterday.

Oddly I never ran into any of the bugs RC30 was supposed to fix. The only one I see now and then is the fail to pad bug which has been around for years now.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

In addition to the missing thumbnails in My Shows, I'm also not seeing any logos for Netflix, Amazon, Xfinity, etc.

For example this should show the "Prime Membership" logo:


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> Only my RoamioPro is missing the icons and poster art,
> - Bolt+ is fine, and also got RC30
> - Bolt is running Hydra
> - XL4 is still on RC18
> - Minis are still on RC18


Yep, same with my XL4 and mini's A92 & A93. Those are still on RC18 too.

It seems it's only on the Roamio. When viewed from another TiVo my artwork shows up. When viewing another TiVo from the Roamio no artwork for the other platforms. Even under devices there's no artwork showing the other TiVo's.

Only artwork is the popcorn bucket for what to watch now.


----------



## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

I guess I am just the lucky one this time - both of my Bolts are running RC30, and I noticed absolutely no changes of any kind after they updated. Everything working the same as it was, all logos there, etc. etc.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

morac said:


> I have RC30 on my Roamio and some shows that normally do, aren't getting skip date either. Namely Gotham and Arrow. The Late Show is also hit or miss with regards to skip data.


That doesn't seem to be related to RC30 (at least on ours) as it happened before we got RC30.

Scott


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

humbb said:


> Major plus with this update. It appears that I'm no longer getting the delay coming out of FF1 back to play. Can't be totally sure since the behavior was somewhat random, but I'm optimistic. Others seeing the same thing?
> 
> Edit: am seeing some delay now coming out of a long pause, but not as long as before.


On certain Comcast 720p converted channels (mpeg4) I'm still seeing the same 2-5 second playback freeze after trickplay. The channels that were originally 720p that were converted to mpeg4 seem to be working better, but not the ones that were down-rezzed from 1080i. Try Golf Channel, frex.

The picture freeze issue still exists on the Roamio at least, on Comcast, ever since 20.7.4 came out.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> On certain Comcast 720p converted channels (mpeg4) I'm still seeing the same 2-5 second playback freeze after trickplay. The channels that were originally 720p that were converted to mpeg4 seem to be working better, but not the ones that were down-rezzed from 1080i. Try Golf Channel, frex.
> 
> The picture freeze issue still exists on the Roamio at least, on Comcast, ever since 20.7.4 came out.


Is yours only on FF1 or also FF2 and FF3?

Scott


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

I do not see anything different (Duh) in RC30. Did anyone really expect to? Yes, the logos are missing in some places (other than the guide), but who the heck can really see them, especially older people (or really care about them)? All these comments about picayune things. BUT again, it is hard to believe Tivo, Inc tests enough. I do not understand.

People...It's main function is a DVR. That's how I see it and use it. Unless you are OTA and can afford some streaming service, well then it IS more than a DVR. I would and always have liked them to work on the Freaking DVR part more, which should have been done years ago.

Don't get me started...LOL. OK, too late. I want a *4th* FF/REW speed. I want 15 minute ticks Always (or an option...haha), since I am constantly doing manual recordings of less than 3 hours on certain long recordings, just so it won't produce 30 minute OR dare I say *ONE* Hour ticks. THE TIVO IS RELATIVELY SLOW IN FF/REW! And again, the stupid delete message should only come at the END as far as I am concerned, and Not lose the Resume Point EVER.

Oh Screw it...what's the use? But I will say that they have made some really great mods along the way. 1P with the integration of Streaming and VOD selections (after much work on it), SkipMode (when it works, and aren't we pissed when it does not work on the shows we Know it works on), and my Beloved QuickMode so I can watch ALL the news and watch this country go down the tubes (sorry...political).

So now that I have wasted maybe 30 minutes on this post, I need to get back to my Roamio Pro which is at 91%. It is hard to watch my real entertainment shows in this day and age...

*HAVE A NICE SUNDAY ALL!!! *


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I guess I don't totally understand the new designations for Amazon video. I was doing a search for 'Lady Bird' and it came up for 'Prime Video' so I thought - cool. I followed the link but it was not available for Prime, rather a purchase/rent option. 

It's not the amount (as it was like $2.99 or something like that), but it was odd as there used to be separate designations for Amazon rent/buy and Amazon Prime. It said Prime so, stupid me, I assumed it was available for Prime members. You don't get to know what the deal is until you click through to Amazon. No likey.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sharkster said:


> I guess I don't totally understand the new designations for Amazon video. I was doing a search for 'Lady Bird' and it came up for 'Prime Video' so I thought - cool. I followed the link but it was not available for Prime, rather a purchase/rent option.
> It's not the amount (as it was like $2.99 or something like that), but it was odd as there used to be separate designations for Amazon rent/buy and Amazon Prime. It said Prime so, stupid me, I assumed it was available for Prime members. You don't get to know what the deal is until you click through to Amazon. No likey.


Perhaps you missed my post? -> 20.7.4.RC30 has arrived......

Stupid names, but the Search functionality is still there.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Yeah, I sure did.  Thanks, Joe. 

I don't know why they need to confuse stuff. Good grief. I'm getting older and, unfortunately, getting really stupid as I do so I just don't need more stuff to confuse me.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

TiVo_Ted said:


> - Full support for "Sports Pass" enhancements to OnePass, allowing you to create recordings for individual teams, leagues, playoffs, etc.


What exactly is new with "Sports Pass" with this update?


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

bbrown9 said:


> What exactly is new with "Sports Pass" with this update?


I believe it is some underlying support for recording all playoff and tournament games vs. regular season.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

For those of you with missing icons on Roamio, I'd like to check in and see if the problem resolved itself? It's possible that logos were reloaded during a nightly update and may have fixed the issue. Can anyone confirm?

Also, I'm trying to understand the exact problems that have appeared. I believe I'm hearing the following:
- Missing App icons (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) next to the app menu items
- Missing network logos (FOX, ESPN, etc.) in program details when shown on My Shows or Find By Channel screens

Additionally, are there missing thumbnails which used to show images from a program and now only show a generic thumbnail?


----------



## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> - Intermittent issues with tuning adapters


Oh man, I hope this solves the issue of having to reboot the TA and Bolt several times over to get the Bolt to finally recognize the TA agan. Last time I had the issue, took me 4 reboots of the TA/Bolt to get the Bolt to finally see the TA again.

Since my Cisco TA has it's own issue every few weeks or so, requiring rebooting, this is welcome(if it fixes it).


----------



## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

I just checked my Roamio and the artwork is still missing. 

The main thing missing are the show specific thumbnails. That's the thumbnails across the top in My Shows and when you drill down into a specific show that's been recorded.

However, I'm starting to develop an appreciation for the default/generic thumbnails that are different for different types of shows. Suspense. Childs programming. Legal. ....

I'm not sure about the network logos. When watching live TV and I press the info button, I do see the logo. But when I look at recorded programming I'm not seeing it, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for, so please don't go by me on that part.

I am also not seeing any app artwork on the TiVo Central screen, but I don't use that very much so I'm also not sure what it should look like. I think I do remember that there used to be icons next to Prime Video and YouTube ..... Those are missing now.

Also, if you drill down into explore show (from a recording) and look at Cast. All the tiles show up for the actors with names, but no pictures.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you with missing icons on Roamio, I'd like to check in and see if the problem resolved itself? It's possible that logos were reloaded during a nightly update and may have fixed the issue. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> Also, I'm trying to understand the exact problems that have appeared. I believe I'm hearing the following:
> - Missing App icons (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) next to the app menu items
> ...


I can confirm on my Roamio Plus I'm missing thumbnails for recorded shows or those displayed in TiVo Central, i.e. I just see generic thumbnails. Also missing icons for all streaming apps as you noted. And channel logos are missing next to recorded shows or when searching as you noted above but are present in the guides. Couple of snaps attached. Just rebooted and still all missing.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

oscarfish said:


> I just checked my Roamio and the artwork is still missing.
> The main thing missing are the show specific thumbnails. That's the thumbnails across the top in My Shows and when you drill down into a specific show that's been recorded.
> However, I'm starting to develop an appreciation for the default/generic thumbnails that are different for different types of shows. Suspense. Childs programming. Legal. ....


The thumbnails up top with the classic UI are in what's called the Discovery Bar. Under Settings, User Preferences, Customize Discovery Bar you can select what is supposed to display. I set mine to "My Shows". However if My Shows is empty, or you do a Search, the thumbnails may change. Sometimes it seems random. Trivia over.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Thanks guys. We're continuing to investigate. I hope to have a fix today.


----------



## wish_bgr (Jul 19, 2014)

Same results here...missing program icons and the app icons aren't there. But, I did notice the network icons in the active tuner section grew supersized (3 out of the 4 big networks seemed to grow)! At least I can see which tuner to switch to from across the room without my glasses on!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

wish_bgr said:


> ... But, I did notice the network icons in the active tuner section grew supersized (3 out of the 4 big networks seemed to grow)! At least I can see which tuner to switch to from across the room without my glasses on!


Without receiving RC30 my icons changed also. I like that CBS is just a big eye in My Shows. The color is right on most TBS logos also.


----------



## davidscarter (Sep 28, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you with missing icons on Roamio, I'd like to check in and see if the problem resolved itself? It's possible that logos were reloaded during a nightly update and may have fixed the issue. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> Also, I'm trying to understand the exact problems that have appeared. I believe I'm hearing the following:
> - Missing App icons (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) next to the app menu items
> ...


Still missing (on my Roamio Pro):

Thumbnail images in discovery bar, program listings, show details, etc. (only generic thumbnails are shown)
App icons next to the app menu items
Network logos in program details
My last service connection was this morning, shortly before 7am EST.


----------



## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Thanks guys. We're continuing to investigate. I hope to have a fix today.


One other thing, I have a Roamio Plus and the icons for other DVRs are missing as well. I have a bolt and 3 Roamios, they do show in my shows, but the icon is no longer to the left of it.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you with missing icons on Roamio, I'd like to check in and see if the problem resolved itself? It's possible that logos were reloaded during a nightly update and may have fixed the issue. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> Also, I'm trying to understand the exact problems that have appeared. I believe I'm hearing the following:
> - Missing App icons (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) next to the app menu items
> ...


It's been at least 2 days and the icons and artwork have not come back.

Here's a list of all the problems:
- Generic genre artwork instead of show specific artwork throughout the UI (discovery bar, my shows, show detail page, episode detail page, etc).
- Missing App icons throughout the entire UI (not just the app menu). This includes search results, show and episode detail pages, etc. I notice that on the show detail pages that where the app icons should be there is a "..." (see photo). The "TV" logo does show up in some places, but not everywhere.
- Missing network logos throughout the entire UI. The only exceptions are the guide and current program info overlays

Here's some example screen shots between my Roamio on RC30 and my Premiere on RC18 (which is what my Roamio used to look like). I apologize for the Premiere photo quality as the Premiere is connected to an old tube TV, but it should be good enough to see what I'm talking about:


----------



## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> That's not related to RC30. The app "Prime Membership" is the old Amazon Prime. The app "Prime Video" is the old Amazon Video ($). The logo sucks.


Ah, so that's why the wife asked me why we "lost" Amazon and then I spent 10 minutes trying to find it. I thought I had just forgotten what it was called when I did locate "Prime Video".


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Without receiving RC30 my icons changed also. I like that CBS is just a big eye in My Shows. The color is right on most TBS logos also.


Do you watch CBS or does CBS watch you?


----------



## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

JoeKustra said:


> I'm much more worried about what they broke.


I received the new version a couple days ago.

Let's see... for the first time since I've had a TiVo (about 10 years), my TiVo (a Roamio Pro) has rebooted all by itself, right in the middle of me watching one program and recording another. I was not doing anything besides sitting down and watching a show. The remote control was sitting on the table. The TiVo just rebooted.

The show thumbnails on the discovery bar, on the My Shows screen, and elsewhere have all disappeared. They are replaced with generic icons. I've tried a couple of network connects with the mothership to see if new thumbnails will be downloaded, to no avail.

Is there a list of things that may have been fixed?


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

morac said:


> It's been at least 2 days and the icons and artwork have not come back.
> 
> Here's a list of all the problems:
> - Generic genre artwork instead of show specific artwork throughout the UI (discovery bar, my shows, show detail page, episode detail page, etc).
> ...


they pulled the update and most likely haven't found what the issue is


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I don’t know if this is related to the update or not, but I’ve experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It’s as if the signal dropped out a few seconds. 

So far I’ve seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it’s happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so. 

This could be Comcast, but the timing is suspect. I haven’t seen it on broadcast channels as of yet, but I have Comcast and they mess with cable channels so I’m wondering if anyone has seen any issues with non-broadcast channels on Comcast.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

morac said:


> I don't know if this is related to the update or not, but I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.
> 
> So far I've seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it's happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so.
> 
> This could be Comcast, but the timing is suspect. I haven't seen it on broadcast channels as of yet, but I have Comcast and they mess with cable channels so I'm wondering if anyone has seen any issues with non-broadcast channels on Comcast.


I've seen this a lot starting today, also Comcast, but RC18.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

morac said:


> I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.


I, too, feel as if I've been seeing this, recently.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

morac said:


> I don't know if this is related to the update or not, but I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.
> 
> So far I've seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it's happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so.
> 
> This could be Comcast, but the timing is suspect. I haven't seen it on broadcast channels as of yet, but I have Comcast and they mess with cable channels so I'm wondering if anyone has seen any issues with non-broadcast channels on Comcast.





cherry ghost said:


> I've seen this a lot starting today, also Comcast, but RC18.


Star Wars Rebels did the same thing to me tonight as well but sounds like a Comcast issue since cherry ghost reported it on RC18 as well.

Scott


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Thanks guys. We're continuing to investigate. I hope to have a fix today.


Ted,

Same issues that the others are mentioning here on a Roamio Pro with missing artwork in the Discovery Bar and for the recorded show details. It looks like it's either not trying to download and cache them or the connection to your CDN for the images is not available (is that Akamai through i.tivo.com?).

Scott


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For those of you with missing icons on Roamio, I'd like to check in and see if the problem resolved itself? It's possible that logos were reloaded during a nightly update and may have fixed the issue. Can anyone confirm?


 I just forced a connection on Tuesday at 6:50am eastern and then tried a reboot. No logos returned.

Tivo Central > Watch Altered Carbon On Netflix: no gold star. When highlighted no artwork showing up.

Discver Bar > No images in discovery bar, just generic text and generic images if a paticular program didn't have artwork.

My Shows > All: when highlighting shows same results as discovery bar - generic images also no network logos there either.

My Shows > Devices: no images on right side panel or icons to the left of each device

My Shows > Video Proveders: the only working icon is the popcorn bucket for "What To Watch Now". No provider icon to the left of providers text, or images in right side panel

Edit to add:

What To Watch Now > no artwork anywhere in any panel. Just generic images with text overlay

Search > Tom Cruise: no photo of him or artwork images no matter how far you drill down


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

WorldBandRadio said:


> Is there a list of things that may have been fixed?


-> 20.7.4.RC30 has arrived......

Nothing on the web page yet.


----------



## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

morac said:


> I don't know if this is related to the update or not, but I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.
> 
> So far I've seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it's happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so.
> 
> This could be Comcast, but the timing is suspect. I haven't seen it on broadcast channels as of yet, but I have Comcast and they mess with cable channels so I'm wondering if anyone has seen any issues with non-broadcast channels on Comcast.





cherry ghost said:


> I've seen this a lot starting today, also Comcast, but RC18.





krkaufman said:


> I, too, feel as if I've been seeing this, recently.


I was watching Jane the Virgin last night (recorded Friday, 3/2 on CW). The picture froze, went partially black several times. Also, the captioning was missing on several occasions.

Roamio Plus, RC30 when watching (it may have been RC18 when the show recorded), Verizon FiOS.


----------



## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

morac said:


> I don't know if this is related to the update or not, but I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.
> 
> So far I've seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it's happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so.
> 
> This could be Comcast, but the timing is suspect. I haven't seen it on broadcast channels as of yet, but I have Comcast and they mess with cable channels so I'm wondering if anyone has seen any issues with non-broadcast channels on Comcast.


Just came here to research this. First. YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

Yes this seems to have started with the rc30. I have a bolt and minis and started to notice it on the minis first then on the main bolt. Actually the bolt is not the server a premier xl4 is but the bolt also streams to the minis. Now the bolt is clearly exhibiting the same issue. Video seems to pause. Audio is of course stopped. 2-4 seconds later it starts again but data is certainly lost. Either not recorded or it's veing skipped. Happens at same place so it's not it's a playback issue

I also show some recodings that are short. 56-58 vs 60 expected. Don't know if this is just the cumulative effect of this over the course of one hour.

Also when dong FF I can see the show clock skip from say 1:33 to 1:41. Now sure why and it seems that if I play through that window it will play but there is certainly a few seconds of drop out in there.

Now this IS with Comcast cable. I don't have OTA on this bolt. Could be Comcast but it doesn't seem to have been reported prior to a few days ago. I'd like to see more rc18 machines that have a NEW recording and see the payback issue.

Hopefully it will resolve otherwise we'll have to wait for an update and that will probably take a while


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Yep, detailed pictures of the shows etc are gone, just generic with text. All of them. Only on my Roamio with the "update", my other Roamios on Gen 3 without the update are fine. Also my Bolt on Gen 4 is fine. I've reconnected, rebooted etc, no change. If this update is a "fix", wow, this seems to be a MAJOR bug, CAUSED by the update.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> Yep, detailed pictures of the shows etc are gone, just generic with text. All of them. Only on my Roamio with the "update", my other Roamios on Gen 3 without the update are fine. Also my Bolt on Gen 4 is fine. I've reconnected, rebooted etc, no change. If this update is a "fix", wow, this seems to be a MAJOR bug, CAUSED by the update.


Even the pictures of my other Tivos under "devices", used to show a picture of a Roamio/Bolt/Premiere/S3/S2, now generic.


----------



## Kaphka (Dec 15, 2008)

morac said:


> I don't know if this is related to the update or not, but I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.
> 
> So far I've seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it's happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so.


I had the exact same experience with those two shows. I assumed it was Comcast's fault. I was watching them on a TiVo Mini on RC18, but my Roamio is on RC30, and that's probably what counts. I checked the diagnostics on the Roamio as soon as I noticed the glitch, and there was no indication of a signal problem on those channels.

This may not be related, but I've noticed brief encoding problems on other shows in the past week or two. Usually it's a horizontal line of distortion that appears for one second or so, about halfway down the screen. I've seen this on recordings and Comcast On Demand streams, but not other apps. Again, I assumed this was Comcast's fault, although now I'm starting to wonder.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> Is yours only on FF1 or also FF2 and FF3?
> 
> Scott


All trickplay including skip forward/back.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

morac said:


> I don't know if this is related to the update or not, but I've experienced an issue where the picture and audio pauses a second and I lose a few seconds of both. It's as if the signal dropped out a few seconds.
> 
> So far I've seen it on HBO (Last Week Tonight) and on Disney XD (Star Wars Rebels finale). For the former I saw it once in a 30 minute recording. For the later it's happening every 5 to 10 minutes or so.
> 
> This could be Comcast, but the timing is suspect. I haven't seen it on broadcast channels as of yet, but I have Comcast and they mess with cable channels so I'm wondering if anyone has seen any issues with non-broadcast channels on Comcast.


Oh wow, I saw the exact same thing on both of these shows. Thought it was the occasional Comcast signal issue.

Looks like Tivo has broken something with mpeg4 playback on Comcast again.


----------



## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Kaphka said:


> This may not be related, but I've noticed brief encoding problems on other shows in the past week or two. Usually it's a horizontal line of distortion that appears for one second or so, about halfway down the screen. I've seen this on recordings and Comcast On Demand streams, but not other apps. Again, I assumed this was Comcast's fault, although now I'm starting to wonder.


 I haven't watched any OnDemand content lately, but I did see this on my recording of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver(main Comcast HBO-HD channel, the first airing from Sunday night). I'm in Comcast-of-Southern-NJ-Land , Roamio Plus. The issue lasted for 3-4 seconds for me, and was very clearly noticeable. I was watching with my wife, so didn't do any further troubleshooting (pretty sure we deleted the recording as well, sorry @TiVo_Ted if that would have been helpful). Thought it was a Comcast glitch too.

/edit: I'm at work, but pretty certain I have RC30, and I also am missing the graphics everywhere that everyone else is reporting too.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Kaphka said:


> I checked the diagnostics on the Roamio as soon as I noticed the glitch, and there was no indication of a signal problem on those channels.


With a basic Roamio or Bolt, the RS Corrected number is always zero. It does work on the 6-tuner models and all Premiere boxes. I keep hoping they fix it. Someday.


----------



## Kaphka (Dec 15, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> With a basic Roamio or Bolt, the RS Corrected number is always zero. It does work on the 6-tuner models and all Premiere boxes. I keep hoping they fix it. Someday.


Interesting. This is a six-tuner Roamio, though, and some of the RS Corrected numbers were not zero (which is normal.) RS Uncorrected was always zero, and the signal strength and SNR looked good.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Kaphka said:


> Interesting. This is a six-tuner Roamio, though, and some of the RS Corrected numbers were not zero (which is normal.) RS Uncorrected was always zero, and the signal strength and SNR looked good.


I don't know if it ever worked. I have a Premiere on the same cable feed. It sometimes has errors. In the same diagnostic, scroll down to where it says Paired:. Mine still says NO even though it was paired last week.


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> I don't know if it ever worked. I have a Premiere on the same cable feed. It sometimes has errors. In the same diagnostic, scroll down to where it says Paired:. Mine still says NO even though it was paired last week.


I don't know that my Comcast card has ever reported as being PAIRED. I've had this card a very long time and after removing a couple of Premiere devices from my system and returning the cards, after they were removed from my account (I confirmed) I requested a 'hit' from Comcast expecting maybe some errors from their accounting team.

My tuners always report different corrected/uncorrected and Comcast used my information for some 'neighborhood' issues that they had in the area a couple years ago.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> I don't know that my Comcast card has ever reported as being PAIRED. I've had this card a very long time and after removing a couple of Premiere devices from my system and returning the cards, after they were removed from my account (I confirmed) I requested a 'hit' from Comcast expecting maybe some errors from their accounting team.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Mine does not (report as being paired, Comcast). The only way for me to tell, if you put in an activated cable card you will get some channels, most in fact (basic channels, local and many cable). When paired you get everything you are supposed to. But cable card screen does not report paired.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I got my service connection today and rebooted but thumbs still missing etc.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Oh wow, I saw the exact same thing on both of these shows. Thought it was the occasional Comcast signal issue.
> 
> Looks like Tivo has broken something with mpeg4 playback on Comcast again.


I'm not ready to call that yet as someone on RC18 saw something similar. I watched the first two segments of The Daily Show (Comedy Central) last night without any issues. Based on the frequency I saw the problem on Disney XD, it should have popped up a few times.

I contacted ComcastCares on Twitter who came back and told me my signals are fine and that there's been no reports of channel problems (may or may not be true).


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

My backup Roamio Pro that has been unplugged for several months went straight from 20.7.2.RC22 to to 20.7.4.RC30 when I fired it up yesterday. Didn't expect that since it has been "pulled".

My basic that runs on OTA is still on RC18 and has real icons instead of generic images.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

morac said:


> I'm not ready to call that yet as someone on RC18 saw something similar. I watched the first two segments of The Daily Show (Comedy Central) last night without any issues. Based on the frequency I saw the problem on Disney XD, it should have popped up a few times.
> I contacted ComcastCares on Twitter who came back and told me my signals are fine and that there's been no reports of channel problems (may or may not be true).


I wonder if something "central" is having problems. I've been having audio dropouts all day and I just lost The Weather Channel. I have never had RC30 either.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Hi everyone, thanks to a few of you sharing your TSN's with me, we figured out what happened here. This was not a bug in our core software or the service. The problem was in the build mechanism that is used to package up the software for delivery to the different flavors of TiVo boxes. For some reason, the Roamio builds for RC30 failed and we had to run them manually. Apparently, the manual build process left out a critical file which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box. Since the UI can't find the local images, it displays default images.

Once a build number is used, it can't be re-created. So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

@TiVo_Ted Have you guys started deploying on Bolts yet? Just checked for an update, and I'm still on RC12 or 14 (sorry, I've not slept since awakening yesterday morning thanks to work).


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Kaphka said:


> had the exact same experience with those two shows. I assumed it was Comcast's fault. I was watching them on a TiVo Mini on RC18, but my Roamio is on RC30, and that's probably what counts. I checked the diagnostics on the Roamio as soon as I noticed the glitch, and there was no indication of a signal problem on those channels.


This also points to it being Comcast (along with the user that was still on RC18 that saw it) as the Mini with RC18 is doing the decoding and playback in this case.

Scott


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Nevermind, I just realized I'm on 21 (Hydra) and this is for the previous UI.


----------



## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

geekmedic said:


> @TiVo_Ted Have you guys started deploying on Bolts yet? Just checked for an update, and I'm still on RC12 or 14 (sorry, I've not slept since awakening yesterday morning thanks to work).


Just had multiple issues while watching Star Wars Rebels with my Bolt using RC30. Picture would freeze and audio lost. Thought maybe it was my comcast signal. So this a Tivo issue?


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

morac said:


> I'm not ready to call that yet as someone on RC18 saw something similar. I watched the first two segments of The Daily Show (Comedy Central) last night without any issues. Based on the frequency I saw the problem on Disney XD, it should have popped up a few times.


I agree along with this one where they saw the issue on their Mini with RC18.



Kaphka said:


> had the exact same experience with those two shows. I assumed it was Comcast's fault. I was watching them on a TiVo Mini on RC18, but my Roamio is on RC30, and that's probably what counts. I checked the diagnostics on the Roamio as soon as I noticed the glitch, and there was no indication of a signal problem on those channels.


It would be interesting to see if we're seeing it at the same points in the shows. Unfortunately I deleted the Star Wars Rebel shows where I noticed it.

Scott


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> I, too, feel as if I've been seeing this, recently.





HerronScott said:


> This also points to it being Comcast (along with the user that was still on RC18 that saw it) as the Mini with RC18 is doing the decoding and playback in this case.


I'm also on Comcast, and had been seeing audio drop-outs and video hiccups. Should we be looking at specific channels, like the H.264 channels... assuming Comcast tweaked something in their encoding that the TiVos are having issue with.


----------



## Kaphka (Dec 15, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> I'm also on Comcast, and had been seeing audio drop-outs and video hiccups. Should we be looking at specific channels, like the H.264 channels... assuming Comcast tweaked something in their encoding that the TiVos are having issue with.


I've had the audio drop-outs on Disney XD and HBO, which may be H.264, although I haven't checked. The horizontal line glitch has shown up on On Demand programs and on my CBS and CW affiliates (via Comcast), which should be MPEG2. Maybe it's the same problem, but it manifests differently depending on the encoding? It's interesting that the glitches are worst on the channel that's probably the most compressed (Disney XD) and least on the channel that's the least compressed (CBS).

Definitely sounds like it's a Comcast problem, though.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Maybe the manual build on Roamio also explains why music playback doesn't work on Roamio? Were any other critical files left out?


----------



## mmf01 (Jan 31, 2011)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone, thanks to a few of you sharing your TSN's with me, we figured out what happened here. This was not a bug in our core software or the service. The problem was in the build mechanism that is used to package up the software for delivery to the different flavors of TiVo boxes. For some reason, the Roamio builds for RC30 failed and we had to run them manually. Apparently, the manual build process left out a critical file which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box. Since the UI can't find the local images, it displays default images.
> 
> Once a build number is used, it can't be re-created. So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


Ted, a huge thank you for your detailed post on the root cause and path forward. Refreshing to see this given most companies say nothing and ignore the issues nowadays. Two Roamios here with this issue, but frustration averted thanks to your post.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> I'm also on Comcast, and had been seeing audio drop-outs and video hiccups. Should we be looking at specific channels, like the H.264 channels... assuming Comcast tweaked something in their encoding that the TiVos are having issue with.


Appears to be a Comcast issue. I posted over at dslreports.com and got a response from someone seeing a similar problem on TCM with a XG2 and HD DTA.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For some reason, the Roamio builds for RC30 failed and we had to run them manually. Apparently, the manual build process left out a critical file which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box. Since the UI can't find the local images, it displays default images.


Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. My company has never done it again. If the automated build fails, it's always for a good reason. It needs to be investigated because nobody knows how to build software manually anymore.


----------



## cmaquilino16 (Jul 7, 2009)

This sound drop out happening on cbs the most the time. How about skip mode on some channels and not on others with roamio pro. TiVo needs to get there software fixed.


----------



## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

BobCamp1 said:


> Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. My company has never done it again. If the automated build fails, it's always for a good reason. It needs to be investigated because nobody knows how to build software manually anymore.


And Nobody did a final system test on the image before they pushed it ?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

cmaquilino16 said:


> This sound drop out happening on cbs the most the time. How about skip mode on some channels and not on others with roamio pro. TiVo needs to get there software fixed.


I would think these glitches would also affect SkipMode since the hiccups could affect the Closed Captions data.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

cmaquilino16 said:


> This sound drop out happening on cbs the most the time. How about skip mode on some channels and not on others with roamio pro. TiVo needs to get there software fixed.


I've been having severe audio and video dropouts on The Weather Channel only. I don't blame TiVo. Yesterday the channel has just a color bar test pattern for 10 minutes.

Maybe when I get RC30 or RC29 it will happen on a different channel.


----------



## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

Kaphka said:


> I've had the audio drop-outs on Disney XD and HBO, which may be H.264, although I haven't checked. The horizontal line glitch has shown up on On Demand programs and on my CBS and CW affiliates (via Comcast), which should be MPEG2. Maybe it's the same problem, but it manifests differently depending on the encoding? It's interesting that the glitches are worst on the channel that's probably the most compressed (Disney XD) and least on the channel that's the least compressed (CBS).
> 
> Definitely sounds like it's a Comcast problem, though.


I've had it and continue to have it with CNN, CNBC, NBC local, Discovery. all comcast. Unfortunately, my mini's are now no longer on Rc18.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

shamilian said:


> And Nobody did a final system test on the image before they pushed it ?


What probably happened, based on my experience, is that the thorough system test was done on another model (i.e. Bolt) with its final build. Then Tivo claimed all their other models wouldn't react differently to the software changes that were made and then they built the software for those models. The other models probably got a quick system test on their final builds, but that didn't include secondary functions like icons. That's not great, but it is reality these days otherwise you'd never get anything out the door.

However, included in that assumption is that you've built those other builds the same exact way you have in the past. Tivo deviated from that when they manually built the Roamio software. You can do that, but that calls for a thorough regression test for that specific build. And based on my experience, the manual build never works because the instructions are incorrect, or they are not followed correctly, or both.

And also based on my experience, the reason the automatic Roamio build failed was probably because there *WAS* a change that *DID* negatively affect another model.

There are other more disturbing explanations, such as they tested most/all of it on an engineering build, created the final build, did a quick check on that build and then released it.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tivoboy said:


> I've had it and continue to have it with CNN, CNBC, NBC local, Discovery. all comcast. Unfortunately, my mini's are now no longer on Rc18.


I haven't reviewed all our recordings, but can say Tuesday night's 'The Detour' on TBS-HD (Comcast) had a number of glitches.


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Ted gave this simple explanation:


> Apparently, the manual build process *left out a critical file *which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box.


----------



## webminster (Dec 13, 2016)

On the subject of glitches, CNN on Comcast at my location has been having very frequent freezes of audio and video, stuff just freezes for a couple of seconds. At least several times per hour.


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Watching ep 2 recording of McMafia (AMC-HD - Comcast) last night, about 10 mins in, picture froze followed by a system restart. No SkipMode coding (ep 1 had it). Roamio Pro and RC30. Also noticed audio skips on MSNBC.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

webminster said:


> ... very frequent freezes of audio and video, stuff just freezes for a couple of seconds. At least several times per hour.


Trying a lap timer to see if the glitches are regularly spaced. (Wondering if the TiVo is periodically spiking CPU as it retries locating the missing artwork, resulting in the glitches. e.g. Are all the glitches at 4-minute intervals?)


----------



## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Trying a lap timer to see if the glitches are regularly spaced. (Wondering if the TiVo is periodically spiking CPU as it retries locating the missing artwork, resulting in the glitches. e.g. Are all the glitches at 4-minute intervals?)


Also noticed with RC30 I was getting a sound issue ( Loud Screeching Sound ) with my Vizio Sound bar when watching Live or recorded shows but ever since RC30 no issues at all with sound with my Bolt. Thought it was my Samsung TV causing the issue but apparently it was Tivo software.


----------



## Kaphka (Dec 15, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Trying a lap timer to see if the glitches are regularly spaced. (Wondering if the TiVo is periodically spiking CPU as it retries locating the missing artwork, resulting in the glitches. e.g. Are all the glitches at 4-minute intervals?)


I don't know if the glitches are evenly spaced within the recording, but I know they're not evenly spaced in real time, because they're reproducible. If you rewind and play the recording again, the glitches happen in the same places. I guess it's possible that they could be caused by CPU spikes on the host DVR while the show is being recorded. That wouldn't explain why I also get reproducible glitches in On Demand content, though.


----------



## webminster (Dec 13, 2016)

I switched over to my WMC instance and was able to reproduce my freezes on CNN at least, so that points to Comcast for the issues I'm seeing.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kaphka said:


> .. wouldn't explain why I also get reproducible glitches in On Demand content, though.


Concur.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> I wonder if something "central" is having problems. I've been having audio dropouts all day and I just lost The Weather Channel. I have never had RC30 either.


Dunno but I've been seeing massive picture artifacting (horizontal bands of pixelating) on TWC channel 832 here on Comcast in the ATL for about a week now. No sound issues though and the SD channel is fine, as are all the other HD channels. I posted a note over at the Xfinity forum to see if anyone else has seen it.

There's something different about how TWC is delivered to non-Comcast equipment here in the ATL, I've seen them send SD down the HD channel and got them to fix it before. They said then that it was a Tivo-specific encoding issue, which I guess means non-X1 devices.


----------



## wish_bgr (Jul 19, 2014)

During a live viewing, I noticed the artwork & pause advertising has returned when placing a show on Pause. It’s for IHeartRadio. I wonder if the art is retrieved from the server or is stored locally on the TiVo, seeing that the thumbnails and icons for apps won’t be returning until the next pushes update?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wish_bgr said:


> During a live viewing, I noticed *the artwork & pause advertising has returned when placing a show on Pause*. It's for IHeartRadio. I wonder if the art is retrieved from the server or is stored locally on the TiVo, seeing that the thumbnails and icons for apps won't be returning until the next pushes update?


I noticed that. I wasn't much amused.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I almost make me want to upgrade to Hydra.

Na....


----------



## Ed Ferguson (Mar 8, 2018)

El Maestro said:


> I too got the update on my Roamio Pro and lost the artwork...was going crazy with reboots until I saw this thread so I'll chill for now, haha.


My Roamio Plus updated a couple days ago, and having the same issue. All of the artwork is now a generic picture in the place of what used to be actual channels, and in the Apps all of the app icons are completely gone, and replaced only by text words.


----------



## Ed Ferguson (Mar 8, 2018)

davidscarter said:


> Yes, I can!
> 
> View attachment 33127
> View attachment 33128
> View attachment 33129


My Roamio Plus is doing exactly the same thing...wish I could revert back to 4 days ago when everything was fine! ;(


----------



## davidscarter (Sep 28, 2015)

Ed Ferguson said:


> My Roamio Plus is doing exactly the same thing...wish I could revert back to 4 days ago when everything was fine! ;(


Ted says the fix is coming next week, so hang in there!


----------



## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

Is there a priority sign-up list for 20.7.4.RC30?


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

mazman said:


> Is there a priority sign-up list for 20.7.4.RC30?


RC30 is DEAD - long live RC29!


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Anyone figured out what is causing the audio dropouts? I visited my father yesterday, he mentioned a "problem" with his Tivo, Roamio Plus, the audio dropouts. He is on Comcast. He watches mostly CNN and a LOT of it. I noticed he had the latest update, ie no picture icons. And he says only for the past few days, which coincides with the update. If it is a Comcast thing big coincidence, or an update thing, or a Roamio thing (did not notice if others have been having the problem on a Bolt)


----------



## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

ClearToLand said:


> RC30 is DEAD - long live RC29!


Strange they just didn't make it RC30a instead of going backwards.


----------



## webminster (Dec 13, 2016)

tommage1 said:


> Anyone figured out what is causing the audio dropouts? I visited my father yesterday, he mentioned a "problem" with his Tivo, Roamio Plus, the audio dropouts. He is on Comcast. He watches mostly CNN and a LOT of it. I noticed he had the latest update, ie no picture icons. And he says only for the past few days, which coincides with the update. If it is a Comcast thing big coincidence, or an update thing, or a Roamio thing (did not notice if others have been having the problem on a Bolt)


Last few days I've had chronic issues with CNN/HLN, not just audio dropouts but picture freezes. Others have observed it as well. Seems to be a Comcast issue for this, since I can reproduce on my Windows Media Center, and Comcast suggested to me during a chat they were having "CNN issues".


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

webminster said:


> Last few days I've had chronic issues with CNN/HLN, not just audio dropouts but picture freezes. Others have observed it as well. Seems to be a Comcast issue for this, since I can reproduce on my Windows Media Center, and Comcast suggested to me during a chat they were having "CNN issues".


I wonder if it's just Comcast. I see the same thing and also on MSNBC and CNBC. When the picture freezes I can switch to FNC and it's still ok.

The Weather Channel is really bad, but I think it's them. I had color bars on the HD and SD feed yesterday.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


Thank you Ted. I been off the forum due to all the crazy news.

Besides the My Shows Tiles and Logos gone on them, and the Discovery Bar tiles, maybe they can look into a QuickMode problem that has been happening since maybe even pre-RC18 and seems to have gotten worse in RC30. When going Into QM, now many times there is audio cutout for several seconds, which can be corrected by the Back button. It never used to do this when switching to QM as much. Happens on Roamio and Mini.

Also I too am on Comcast and it has been bad like people say. Many UNcorrected errors even. CNN and MSNBC (on same satellite here in S FL) at times. Also many programs that used to always have Skip, some do not. It is useless to call comcast down here for these things. They just want to send someone out and I know there is no level problems.

Also while I am reporting things, instead of making yet another thread about the Android App, this 3.25 is terrible (mostly Not on Wifi). Loses resume point when kicked out or even when I leave the house and the Roamio has not lost the resume point, it starts at the beginning and also the terrible "you have too many connections open" msg after you are kicked out. Since I have an Android rooted phone, I keep all the APK version files. I have not been able to restore anything before 3.25. Not 3.24, 3.23 or even 3.10, which worked great except that the status bar did not come up when you tapped it. Also the later version just goes right to What to Watch instead of just going to where it was last. Highly annoying. No option for this, of course. Also sometimes when it comes up it asks which Tivo you want to use. I *think* that is when the older versions stopped working. I get a network error on all older versions and that includes when I am on Wifi. I use the App a whole lot. When not on wifi, it is hard to tell if it is the 4G or your servers. Can you look into this sometime when you get a chance?

Sorry this was so long. I will patiently wait for a reply...from anyone, especially about the App.

*THANKS* *(ok, there's some color for St Paddy's day (I'm Jewish, but we love our corn beef!...LOL)). HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!

PS, did you get anywhere with that setting for SkipMode on Series4? *


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

morac said:


> Appears to be a Comcast issue. I posted over at dslreports.com and got a response from someone seeing a similar problem on TCM with a XG2 and HD DTA.





krkaufman said:


> I would think these glitches would also affect SkipMode since the hiccups could affect the Closed Captions data.





JoeKustra said:


> I've been having severe audio and video dropouts on The Weather Channel only. I don't blame TiVo. Yesterday the channel has just a color bar test pattern for 10 minutes.
> 
> Maybe when I get RC30 or RC29 it will happen on a different channel.





tivoboy said:


> I've had it and continue to have it with CNN, CNBC, NBC local, Discovery. all comcast. Unfortunately, my mini's are now no longer on Rc18.





webminster said:


> On the subject of glitches, CNN on Comcast at my location has been having very frequent freezes of audio and video, stuff just freezes for a couple of seconds. At least several times per hour.


I'm seeing a lot of reports about glitches and audio dropouts, but they all seem to be coming from Comcast customers. And, as @krkaufman pointed out, glitches in the video stream will also likely cause glitches in the closed captioning. Once the captioning in the source file goes below a match threshold, your box will think the tag file doesn't match and will not display the SKIP icon. I will run some queries on our side to see if we can help isolate the issue and determine whether it is box specific and/or cable operator specific.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm seeing a lot of reports about glitches and audio dropouts, but they all seem to be coming from Comcast customers.


It's the Russians messing with our satellites. Practice.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

The recent missing SKIP icons are NOT only beeing seen by Comcast only customers.
However, I think some of the authors/generators of the SKIP data may be in Comcast markets, and hence may explain why the SKIP data is not getting generated properly in the 1st place and hence not available to anyone else.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i've been seeing brief glitches with comcast on both mpg2 & mpg4 channels for probably a year or more, coincidentally, about the same time they "added a qam" in our market (according to a local tech), then converted the bulk of package programming to mpg4/720p.

recordings from the local nbc affiliate would briefly pixilate about 2 minutes into each recording of _today_ and _wheel_, almost like clockwork, and i attributed that to the station and their feeds, but now it's spread widely across many channels, and at various times. it's never a complete freeze, and so far audio hasn't been interrupted.

i have observed random, brief freezes while using xfinitystream, too, without other substantial network traffic at the time, and using their 100 meg service, which should be more than ample for one hd stream. comparatively, the u-verse 18 meg service was always reliable with a single hd stream, no buffering or glitches.

the above mentioned tech, who correctly predicted the move of our local office and opening of our "xfinity experience" store, also commented about a removal of in-line signal amplification across our market, along with other considerable conversions taking place (iptv related?).

one thing is certain, signal drops in our market cause my gateway to spontaneously reboot at least once a week, sometimes twice an hour, and multiple tech visits haven't been able to trace the cause, and their website reports multiple outages in our market every month, sometimes weekly, and for days at a time.

tl;dr - comcast in our market is a mess, not dependable, and a lousy value when weighed against the cost - i'm actively seeking a different provider.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

samccfl99 said:


> Also while I am reporting things, instead of making yet another thread about the Android App, this 3.25 is terrible (mostly Not on Wifi). Loses resume point when kicked out or even when I leave the house and the Roamio has not lost the resume point, it starts at the beginning and also the terrible "you have too many connections open" msg after you are kicked out. Since I have an Android rooted phone, I keep all the APK version files. I have not been able to restore anything before 3.25. Not 3.24, 3.23 or even 3.10, which worked great except that the status bar did not come up when you tapped it. Also the later version just goes right to What to Watch instead of just going to where it was last. Highly annoying. No option for this, of course. Also sometimes when it comes up it asks which Tivo you want to use. I *think* that is when the older versions stopped working. I get a network error on all older versions and that includes when I am on Wifi. I use the App a whole lot. When not on wifi, it is hard to tell if it is the 4G or your servers. Can you look into this sometime when you get a chance?


As you say, this is not really an Android thread. That said, the issues you point out are common to iOS and Android. Our 3.X mobile code base is not great, and we have stopped most development on it and are readying a release on an entirely new cross platform code base. This will be version 4.X when we release, targeting spring.

The pause behavior is well known, and we're still trying to get it right. It has something to do with the timing between the original recording and the transcoded stream. We did just recently fix a bug where the mobile client thought you were streaming outside the home when you were really on local WiFi. Also, for out-of-home streaming, there is an issue where the client dies but the DVR has not killed the transcode session yet. If you try to reconnect, the DVR refuses the connection because of a policy limitation that won't allow 2 simultaneous out-of-home connections. I believe this problem is being addressed on the DVR side so that the connection can be re-established when the same client tries to reconnect.

We have a bunch of people working on mobile now, so I'm hoping we can really improve quality and reliability throughout the next few releases.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As you say, this is not really an Android thread. That said, the issues you point out are common to iOS and Android. Our 3.X mobile code base is not great, and we have stopped most development on it and are readying a release on an entirely new cross platform code base. This will be version 4.X when we release, targeting spring.
> 
> The pause behavior is well known, and we're still trying to get it right. It has something to do with the timing between the original recording and the transcoded stream. We did just recently fix a bug where the mobile client thought you were streaming outside the home when you were really on local WiFi. Also, for out-of-home streaming, there is an issue where the client dies but the DVR has not killed the transcode session yet. If you try to reconnect, the DVR refuses the connection because of a policy limitation that won't allow 2 simultaneous out-of-home connections. I believe this problem is being addressed on the DVR side so that the connection can be re-established when the same client tries to reconnect.
> 
> We have a bunch of people working on mobile now, so I'm hoping we can really improve quality and reliability throughout the next few releases.


I would try to give three "likes" to this message if I could!


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm seeing a lot of reports about glitches and audio dropouts, but they all seem to be coming from Comcast customers. And, as @krkaufman pointed out, glitches in the video stream will also likely cause glitches in the closed captioning. Once the captioning in the source file goes below a match threshold, your box will think the tag file doesn't match and will not display the SKIP icon. I will run some queries on our side to see if we can help isolate the issue and determine whether it is box specific and/or cable operator specific.


We're on Cox and have had the issue with the missing SKIP icon. One example was this week's episode of Blacklist.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

DBrunetti said:


> We're on Cox and have had the issue with the missing SKIP icon. One example was this week's episode of Blacklist.


Is this an issue of just the icon being missing but the skips actually work or where shows that normal have skip have some episodes that don't? If it's the latter, I'm seeing it, too, and I have Verizon FIOS.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

bbrown9 said:


> Is this an issue of just the icon being missing but the skips actually work or where shows that normal have skip have some episodes that don't? If it's the latter, I'm seeing it, too, and I have Verizon FIOS.


Also with Cox in Phoenix, AZ and "The Blacklist" (Wed 03/07, S5E15) also does not have a Skip Icon and Skip does not work.

I do have occasional Audio and Video glitches on CNN, and have for a very long time, nothing new for me.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DBrunetti said:


> We're on Cox and have had the issue with the missing SKIP icon. One example was this week's episode of Blacklist.


Current tracking thread for missing SM. -> Skip not available on shows recorded tonight


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... I have 2 Roamio Pros on RC30 that have begun repeatedly rebooting today, whenever they're connected via Ethernet. They run fine so long as I leave them disconnected from the network.

Roamio Pros repeatedly rebooting when networked

Nothing to see here... move along.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone, thanks to a few of you sharing your TSN's with me, we figured out what happened here. This was not a bug in our core software or the service. The problem was in the build mechanism that is used to package up the software for delivery to the different flavors of TiVo boxes. For some reason, the Roamio builds for RC30 failed and we had to run them manually. Apparently, the manual build process left out a critical file which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box. Since the UI can't find the local images, it displays default images.
> 
> Once a build number is used, it can't be re-created. So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


@TiVo_Ted, if you need any guinea TSNs for RC29 (or whatever build), please let me know as both of my RC30 Roamio Pros are continually rebooting any time they have access to the Internet. (link) I've had to block their access to the Internet via my router to prevent them from rebooting. (Disconnecting the Ethernet cable also works, but I needed to restore Mini access lest the users revolt.)


----------



## Jetspeedz (Dec 20, 2014)

@TiVo_Ted

Can you please explain to me how is it that these kinds of bugs get past software testing and regression tests before they are released to the public. As a Software company Tivo needs to do a better job of vetting the software they release rather than having the public become active beta testers. Software developers/testers are not doing any due diligence to ensure these mistakes don't get out to end users. This is simply unacceptable, and not the first time Tivo has released software with a bug. God forbid any of these developers leave to go work somewhere else where the software is a matter of life or death. It is not like this one was a hidden bug, all you have to to is turn on your Tivo and your discovery bar is riddled with generic backgrounds and your app icons are missing. How does something like this continue to happen?

How about an option to downgrade from the menu? Even MS lets you roll back updates.

Talk to me


----------



## Jetspeedz (Dec 20, 2014)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone, thanks to a few of you sharing your TSN's with me, we figured out what happened here. This was not a bug in our core software or the service. The problem was in the build mechanism that is used to package up the software for delivery to the different flavors of TiVo boxes. For some reason, the Roamio builds for RC30 failed and we had to run them manually. Apparently, the manual build process left out a critical file which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box. Since the UI can't find the local images, it displays default images.
> 
> Once a build number is used, it can't be re-created. So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


Wonderful, so as a software developer you don't test the final software package against target hardware? No wonder we end customers continue to report bugs to Tivo with each software release, apparently Tivo has found the solution to cutting back on costs for testers by using the public to beta test for them. Perhaps you can explain to me how Tivo omits target hardware testing??? I would love to hear the answer and please don't tell me you have too many devices and cable providers to contend with.... waiting patiently


----------



## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Jetspeedz said:


> @TiVo_Ted.. This is simply unacceptable, ...


Unaceptable, so what are you going to do?

Why all the hysteria? they are working on it!!


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

foghorn2 said:


> Unaceptable, so what are you going to do?
> 
> Why all the hysteria? they are working on it!!


Haha, you kind of hit it on the head, "what are you going to do"? Sadly in the world today there are a LOT of things happening that should not, due to negligence, greed, incompetence, other reasons. But can't do much about most of it. Other than boycotting/avoiding certain situations/companies etc, at least the ones where the bad situations are not created by simple mistakes. By incompetence or even worse, design............


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Jetspeedz said:


> @TiVo_Ted
> 
> How about an option to downgrade from the menu? Even MS lets you roll back updates.
> 
> Talk to me


Not always true. Win 10, one of the latest updates broke my computer. It tried to install the update, could not, said could not do it on "this computer". But was fine up until the update, a major "new version" update, pretty much full install. Could not roll back, could not boot, even into safe mode. Never really figured it out, tried fresh installs but it always tried the latest update. I THINK it is the video card, only thing in the computer that is what I would consider "old". This has been a problem with Win 10 for many, I did a lot of research, down to the point of telling people how to block updates. The sad thing is Win 10 is supposed to be "forever". You have a computer, you test it with Win 10, it works so you buy Win 10. But as time goes on Win 10 updates stop supporting certain random hardware. So the OS you purchased because it worked on your computer no longer works, and it does not even tell you why, ie what specifically caused the problem. Unusable, totally, can't even boot. I may try a a different video card in that computer in the future, my main OS on that computer is Win 7 for now and it works great so I don't want to mess with hardware at this time.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As you say, this is not really an Android thread. That said, the issues you point out are common to iOS and Android. Our 3.X mobile code base is not great, and we have stopped most development on it and are readying a release on an entirely new cross platform code base. This will be version 4.X when we release, targeting spring.
> 
> We have a bunch of people working on mobile now, so I'm hoping we can really improve quality and reliability throughout the next few releases.


Thank you for that very detailed explanation, Ted! I appreciate this update.

*Spring is just around the corner, but it will probably be past spring, which is fine. *

*You all have a lot of work to do. Thanks again for keeping us informed and for listening.*


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> We have a bunch of people working on mobile now, so I'm hoping we can really improve quality and reliability throughout the next few releases.


Thanks, even though that is WAY overdue. The Android app in particular has been an unreliable POS for years now. Another example for failure is trying to download multiple shows on your own network for later phone watching. VERY unreliable at times, errors out on a regular basis for me.


----------



## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> I wonder if it's just Comcast. I see the same thing and also on MSNBC and CNBC. When the picture freezes I can switch to FNC and it's still ok.
> 
> The Weather Channel is really bad, but I think it's them. I had color bars on the HD and SD feed yesterday.


 No one has mentioned this, but this "Solar Outage" Time. It happens in the daytime when the satellite passes in front of the sun. This could explain why one would see color bars on the Weather Channel. This should be over by March 15. The time of day of the outage depends on the position of the satellite in the arc and only lasts about 5 to 10 min.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Jetspeedz said:


> @TiVo_Ted
> 
> Can you please explain to me how is it that these kinds of bugs get past software testing and regression tests before they are released to the public. As a Software company Tivo needs to do a better job of vetting the software they release rather than having the public become active beta testers. Software developers/testers are not doing any due diligence to ensure these mistakes don't get out to end users. This is simply unacceptable, and not the first time Tivo has released software with a bug. God forbid any of these developers leave to go work somewhere else where the software is a matter of life or death. It is not like this one was a hidden bug, all you have to to is turn on your Tivo and your discovery bar is riddled with generic backgrounds and your app icons are missing. How does something like this continue to happen?
> 
> ...


I'm not going to defend what happened here. It was a mistake that should have been caught. I can add some detail about how complex our release processes are. Each software build is packaged up for dozens of target configurations across all of our retail and MSO customers. QE tests heavily for upgrade/downgrade from an even wider number of builds because each operator may have a different version and new retail boxes might still have a very old manufacturing build when setup. Manually testing features across every target system for every build is not possible.

After this, releases continue their journey through our staging service, and into production. This is really where we should have caught this problem. We map software to alpha systems first, mainly employee home systems. However, all of our alpha testers are running builds off mainline that have database changes that prevent them from downgrading without being wiped. This is why downgrading from TE4 to TE3 requires a clear & delete.

So, now we get to beta testers, including some of you guys. Here also, we have many more testers running TE4 because that's where we are developing new features and need more testing. This TE3 release was meant to only contain bug fixes. It shouldn't have needed extensive testing. Our approach here is to release the build and let it soak for a while. If we don't have any severe reports from beta, we expand the release to all users.

For some reason, none of our testers running TE3 on Roamio reported this issue. Or, if they did, we didn't catch it in time. I'm still trying to fully understand the problem here, but it does seem like we need some more active beta testers running TE3. Internally, we've shifted a majority of our resources onto TE4 as our operator customers prepare to roll it out to their customers.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

JoeKustra said:


> Current tracking thread for missing SM. -> Skip not available on shows recorded tonight


Thank you!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

wtkflhn said:


> No one has mentioned this, but this "Solar Outage" Time. It happens in the daytime when the satellite passes in front of the sun. This could explain why one would see color bars on the Weather Channel. This should be over by March 15. The time of day of the outage depends on the position of the satellite in the arc and only lasts about 5 to 10 min.


I get that in the afternoon. This morning TWC was dropping audio & video around sunrise. I found the other channels sharing the same QAM channel. I had them on for about an hour without any problems. TWC gets an error about every 10 minutes. I may call my cable feed on Monday. TWC is my go to channel when bad things happen on the news.


----------



## Jetspeedz (Dec 20, 2014)

@TiVo_Ted



TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm not going to defend what happened here. It was a mistake that should have been caught. I can add some detail about how complex our release processes are. Each software build is packaged up for dozens of target configurations across all of our retail and MSO customers. QE tests heavily for upgrade/downgrade from an even wider number of builds because each operator may have a different version and new retail boxes might still have a very old manufacturing build when setup. Manually testing features across every target system for every build is not possible.


At least you are holding your team accountable which is a good start. I don't expect testing of every feature especially old features, but if there is deltas in the code should be vetted on top of the regression testing for older features. Yes it may take a while, but better than releasing a build which breaks something else or introduces a new bug. That is just bad business practice to omit this step? At least from a software cycle perspective weather you guys develop via traditional or agile you can't cut corners unless you want upset customers.



TiVo_Ted said:


> After this, releases continue their journey through our staging service, and into production. This is really where we should have caught this problem. We map software to alpha systems first, mainly employee home systems. However, all of our alpha testers are running builds off mainline that have database changes that prevent them from downgrading without being wiped. This is why downgrading from TE4 to TE3 requires a clear & delete.


Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem is this was not a TE4 (21.x) update, this was a TE3 (20.x) update so users on TE3 getting this update I assume are not on a trunk release, therefore if it was made available the option to downgrade would be viable if Tivo added this capability. If you have a TE3 DB on a branch than it should be fairly easy to downgrade without requiring a wipe/restore.



TiVo_Ted said:


> So, now we get to beta testers, including some of you guys. Here also, we have many more testers running TE4 because that's where we are developing new features and need more testing. This TE3 release was meant to only contain bug fixes. It shouldn't have needed extensive testing. Our approach here is to release the build and let it soak for a while. If we don't have any severe reports from beta, we expand the release to all users.
> 
> For some reason, none of our testers running TE3 on Roamio reported this issue. Or, if they did, we didn't catch it in time. I'm still trying to fully understand the problem here, but it does seem like we need some more active beta testers running TE3. Internally, we've shifted a majority of our resources onto TE4 as our operator customers prepare to roll it out to their customers.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There is a systemic problem when Tivo's problem reporting model before escalation occurs only after a village has called about the same bug. This is an inherent fallacy with why bugs like this go unacknowledged for some time even from build to build. In the past I reported issues to Tivo support and weeks go by without any feedback other than generic canned "reboot your box", I called for a follow up to only be told that unless more people call in about the same bug they won't fix it or get elevated in the queue. In fact when I reported this issue you know what Toni at Tivo customer service told me, to "reboot my box and connect to the network", here is the ref# for your info, the level of competence will drive a sane person mad *ref:_00D50JZS8._50038wK3gb:ref*. None the less bugs and issues beta and end users report still persist to this day, within this thread you see posts by users stating problems still did not get resolved in this latest build.

That said the beta testers testing TE3 might have reported this problem and it fell on def ears b/c only a few reported it initially. I find it very hard to believe this particular bug wasn't reported because it is not a hidden bug, the GUI stares at your face the moment you use the box.

This should have never got deployed to beta testers in the first place, this should have been caught at Alpha testing. There are a lot of customers on TE3 that won't upgrade to VOX or TE4 capable units. It would be prudent on Tivo to ensure more Alpha users are testing TE3 updates rather beta and end users to catch new/regression bugs. I've done enough development and testing to know pissing off your end customers is the last thing you want to do and my customers are Govt/DoD to name a few. If Tivo sets up a direct line to developers and/or a web based reporting system I would be happy to beta test TE3, but the model right now is to go through incompetent support staff and no option to downgrade. Setup a web based JIRA or similar and an option to downgrade so once a beta tester finds all the bugs they can they have the ability to downgrade and enjoy a bug free experience b/c we all know how quickly the recycle cycle works, and you will have a much larger community of beta testers as long as developers don't ignore reports.

Cheers


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't know were we would be without TCF. Imagine having to use TiVo's support forums? I would get a satellite first.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> I don't know were we would be without TCF. Imagine having to use TiVo's support forums? I would get a satellite first.


you've obviously never used dtv's support forums.


----------



## El Maestro (Nov 19, 2013)

Just taking a second to appreciate @TiVo_Ted for being here and responsive. It isn't often that we can communicate with the people who develop the software/products we use and learn about how everything happens. While I look forward to getting the artwork back I know they're working on it!


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

I appreciate it anytime @TiVo_Ted tries to pull back the sausage making aspect of TiVo. I've tested things in the past for them and I'm also one to loathe going to gen4. I'll go back and refresh my devices and see what happens.


----------



## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm seeing a lot of reports about glitches and audio dropouts, but they all seem to be coming from Comcast customers. And, as @krkaufman pointed out, glitches in the video stream will also likely cause glitches in the closed captioning. Once the captioning in the source file goes below a match threshold, your box will think the tag file doesn't match and will not display the SKIP icon. I will run some queries on our side to see if we can help isolate the issue and determine whether it is box specific and/or cable operator specific.


I'm also on Comcast and am seeing the glitches & no skip icons for some shows. They seemed to happen around the same time RC30 was loaded on my systems. It could be a coincident with Comcast mucking something up. Any chance you can roll some of us that are seeing the glitches to the previous release version to see if there is any correlation?


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

reneg said:


> I'm also on Comcast and am seeing the glitches & no skip icons for some shows. They seemed to happen around the same time RC30 was loaded on my systems. It could be a coincident with Comcast mucking something up. Any chance you can roll some of us that are seeing the glitches to the previous release version to see if there is any correlation?


It's not RC30. It's affecting people without Tivo as well (except for the no skip)


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

reneg said:


> I'm also on Comcast and am seeing the glitches & no skip icons for some shows. They seemed to happen around the same time RC30 was loaded on my systems. It could be a coincident with Comcast mucking something up. Any chance you can roll some of us that are seeing the glitches to the previous release version to see if there is any correlation?


The team is still trying to triage this problem. We have enough reports now that they have good log data to comb through. Creating a group to downgrade is not easy. I'd rather give them a couple more days to investigate what's going on.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Jetspeedz said:


> @TiVo_Ted
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem is this was not a TE4 (21.x) update, this was a TE3 (20.x) update so users on TE3 getting this update I assume are not on a trunk release, therefore if it was made available the option to downgrade would be viable if Tivo added this capability. If you have a TE3 DB on a branch than it should be fairly easy to downgrade without requiring a wipe/restore.
> 
> ...


You are obviously an experienced software developer, so I don't have to explain to you that not all bugs are going to get fixed. Every bug we fix is a resource trade-off against new feature development. The village approach is actually not a bad one. Even if we created a self-service Jira ticket system, we'd still have the same problem. Single bug reports aren't going to get much attention unless other users vote them up.

My earlier comment about TE4 being a one-way street was an explanation about why we don't have as many TE3 testers anymore. Once a lot of our internal testers upgraded to TE4, we lost the ability to have them test TE3 releases like this one. The branch for TE3 was pulled a long time ago. It was far too much work to cherry-pick tons of changes from TE4 or mainline to fix the upgrade/downgrade issue.

I'm sure there are customers who will choose to stay on TE3, and that's fine. We don't have any plans to force people to upgrade to TE4. However, I can guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed. We will continue to prioritize critical ones, but TE3 just isn't going to get the attention that TE4 is getting.


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

TiVo_Ted said:


> not all bugs are going to get fixed.


That's a tautology. And cosmetic bugs, which the GP is just virtue signaling about, aren't mission critical. TiVo's primary testing concern should be (and apparently is, considering it's not happened) to not to "brick" any users given that recovery would be a major expense/PITA. Icons not showing? Mice nuts - that just takes a new release as long as the network/"upgrade" system works. Focus on the critical, nothing's perfect.

(of course, providing some sort of side-load capability would ease the pain of the inevitable fatal error, and a download and USB drive restore are relatively simple to implement).


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sure there are customers who will choose to stay on TE3, and that's fine. We don't have any plans to force people to upgrade to TE4. However, I can guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed.


Bring TE4 to at least feature parity with TE3 (local transfers instead of forcing web initiated transfers, and "live guide", for example), and you'd pull more people forward.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I agree, get the TE4 feature set up to parity with what TE3 offers and many will move forward. I am ready to do so but will not until the ability to load video to the unit locally is in TE4 by some mechanism. The live guide is a concern but not what is preventing me from jumping to TE4.

Alternatively, for me at least, would be MUCH better integration of items available from a Plex server. IE bookmarked Plex items available in now playing and plex items included in search results like they are for other streaming services.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

jcthorne said:


> I agree, get the TE4 feature set up to parity with what TE3 offers and many will move forward. I am ready to do so but will not until the ability to load video to the unit locally is in TE4 by some mechanism. The live guide is a concern but not what is preventing me from jumping to TE4.


This. Absolutely this. I prefer the grid guide, but video transfer is a big feature to lose. I have also gotten quite fond of the clock display on the screen with SPS9S.

Put those features back and I'll give TE4 a try.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sure there are customers who will choose to stay on TE3, and that's fine. We don't have any plans to force people to upgrade to TE4. However, I can guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed. We will continue to prioritize critical ones, but TE3 just isn't going to get the attention that TE4 is getting.


Thanks for explaining the perspective. I see two things.

TE4 *needs* more attention to improve stability and provide some of the lost functionality.

TE3, are there current problems that can be fixed without major effort? Is YouTube streaming a low priority since other cheaper/better ways can be found? Is there a list of TE3 specific problems? The current art work issue was found on TE3, but would TE4 also have it if there was a software update?

For the record, I'm using both. Thanks for the information. It really helps. Please keep it coming.


----------



## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

Now I could be wrong, but I don't think you will see the clock feature (SPS9S) going forward. I'm pretty sure the reason it was pulled was because of screen burn-in liability. 

Lawyers.....


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

DigitalDawn said:


> Now I could be wrong, but I don't think you will see the clock feature (SPS9S) going forward. I'm pretty sure the reason it was pulled was because of *screen burn-in* liability.
> 
> Lawyers.....


If that's the case, that would be good then, right?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sure there are customers who will choose to stay on TE3, and that's fine. We don't have any plans to force people to upgrade to TE4. However, I can guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed. We will continue to prioritize critical ones, but TE3 just isn't going to get the attention that TE4 is getting.


Ditto what others have said about feature parity, and in the meantime you would get more upgraders and do customers a solid by releasing the emulator so they aren't completely without the features they want when they need them.

Over the past couple years Tivo's been slowly stripping away features from TE3 that made them unique. I don't get it. They didn't listen much to what people had to say about TE4 either, apparently to get it out on time. I'm hoping you can be a course-correcting influence and not just go along with it. Push/pull transfers, live guide, and folder playback honestly shouldn't require moving mountains.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Is YouTube streaming a low priority since other cheaper/better ways can be found?


Actually, mine is working much better now. No longer hiccuping on LOADING after 20-25 min.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jrtroo said:


> Actually, mine is working much better now. No longer hiccuping on LOADING after 20-25 min.


I'll have to get it a try tomorrow. I don't use it for much, but I saw so many posts & threads I was hoping it would be fixed.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

My biggest issue with TE4 is that My Shows is a cluttered mess and ordering is completely broken because the recordings view seems to take in to account streaming release dates when ordering groups by date. That makes it difficult to find recent recordings. 

TE3 has the same problem, but at least groups can be turned off to work around that issue. If not for that I’d probably upgrade to TE4.


----------



## Jetspeedz (Dec 20, 2014)

@TiVo_Ted



TiVo_Ted said:


> You are obviously an experienced software developer, so I don't have to explain to you that not all bugs are going to get fixed. Every bug we fix is a resource trade-off against new feature development. The village approach is actually not a bad one. Even if we created a self-service Jira ticket system, we'd still have the same problem. Single bug reports aren't going to get much attention unless other users vote them up.


Tivo is not a startup company, it is an established company which has been around for a long time. As a consumer it is not my concern if there are resource constraints, hire more developers and testers, your margins should allow you to do so since Tivo went cheap on customer support by sending it all offshore. I didn't pay for a device to become a beta tester and neither do most of your customers. It is quite telling if you believe the village approach is the right path for anomaly reporting and resolution. A web based front end JIRA style portal would at least give experienced and beta users the ability to see what has been reported and give them a chance to vote. Currently you have to go through an offshore or onshore rep having to listen to them tell you to reboot your box only after wasting your time for 30mins before they create a ticket which goes nowhere. Surely you don't think this is effective!

I'm not saying it is your fault, I don't know your position in the company, however, corporations make decisions on what is more important and if Tivo management doesn't believe delivering bug free software is critical than so be it. I can tell you if I told my customer(s) a single instance of a bug reported would not get any attention b/c of resource constraints it wouldn't cut it, and, it is not indicative of a single industry either nor does it have to be mission critical; Cyber, Medical, Defense, Commercial etc, it is just good business practice period. You are only as good as your customer base and as soon as the next shiny alternative comes out you can bet your subscriber base will fall and so will the company who shuns their customers feedback and complaints as history has shown.



TiVo_Ted said:


> My earlier comment about TE4 being a one-way street was an explanation about why we don't have as many TE3 testers anymore. Once a lot of our internal testers upgraded to TE4, we lost the ability to have them test TE3 releases like this one. The branch for TE3 was pulled a long time ago. It was far too much work to cherry-pick tons of changes from TE4 or mainline to fix the upgrade/downgrade issue.
> 
> I'm sure there are customers who will choose to stay on TE3, and that's fine. We don't have any plans to force people to upgrade to TE4. However, I can guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed. We will continue to prioritize critical ones, but TE3 just isn't going to get the attention that TE4 is getting.


TE3 branch was pulled yet you guys pushed out a buggy software release without fully testing it b/c of lack of resources? How does that make sense? Than don't push out an update which has not been fully tested through the proper cycle even post build. Why not provide an option to downgrade to the previous rev. Surely if the DB was in place off that branch so was the previous rev. Forcing users to upgrade to a faulty build that has been pulled and does not get tested is a good way to blunder your reputation.

You reaffirmed my thoughts, so tough luck for folks on TE3 who prefer to stay on TE3. Tivo does not want to allocate enough resources to keep a majority of their existing customer base from having a good user experience and the bugs will never get fixed because internally the new shiny TE4 is more valuable than the bread and butter that serves the majority of customers up until recently. This type of arrogance never seizes to amaze me.

Not that it matters anymore because the village has not reported this and likely this new bug you introduced in RC30 update that was not there on the previous rev which we can't downgrade to also broke the Netflix App with rendering and horz scan lines on certain programs. Guess I won't be using Netflix anymore through Tivo anymore on buggy TE3 RC30.


----------



## buildersboy66 (Dec 9, 2016)

What is major to me right now vs your future feature BS is three things. SKIP via Bolt+ Comcast Sub missing a lot of times, sudden ethernet disconnect Mini Vox (NO MOCA PERIOD), Mini VOX when turned on channel displayed/actual received not correct. To me and many these are major BUGS! I am so sick of this already. ENOUGH! Get this fixed! I actually got another router and modem to test out my mini's sudden ethernet disconnect issue. It is still happening, therefore 100% sure it is the mini's issue. I am so sick of being a trouble shooter for you, although I do not contribute or report issues in a well toned manner or at all. I wait and see here if others report similar issues. Not sure where you are to report issues, let alone to be believed at all by TiVo. Thus my lack of respect and willingness to contribute my own findings and issues.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Jetspeedz said:


> @TiVo_Ted
> 
> Tivo is not a startup company, it is an established company which has been around for a long time. As a consumer it is not my concern if there are resource constraints, hire more developers and testers, your margins should allow you to do so since Tivo went cheap on customer support by sending it all offshore. I didn't pay for a device to become a beta tester and neither do most of your customers. It is quite telling if you believe the village approach is the right path for anomaly reporting and resolution. A web based front end JIRA style portal would at least give experienced and beta users the ability to see what has been reported and give them a chance to vote. Currently you have to go through an offshore or onshore rep having to listen to them tell you to reboot your box only after wasting your time for 30mins before they create a ticket which goes nowhere. Surely you don't think this is effective!
> 
> ...


Wow, so many off-base comments I don't even know how to respond. Let's try bullets:
- Our beta testers do have access to a Jira portal. If you go back and read my comment, you'll see that I was referring to the masses, not testers.
- Business issues like margins are probably best not handled here, but our margins are not great
- If you'd like to see my role in the company, click on my profile. For some reason, your profile is blank.
- Bug-free software? I thought you were a developer. The only bug-free software is Hello World.
- It is completely naïve to think that the same software development rules for Medical or Defense would apply to Consumer products
- You clearly didn't read (or understand) my comments about branching. And, this was a packaging error, not a bug in the software release
- Nowhere did I claim that we didn't have enough testing resources. I said that most of our testers are running TE4
- In another 2 months, the majority of our customers will be on TE4, not TE3. That is not arrogance, it is just a fact


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

buildersboy66 said:


> What is major to me right now vs your future feature BS is three things. SKIP via Bolt+ Comcast Sub missing a lot of times, sudden ethernet disconnect Mini Vox (NO MOCA PERIOD), Mini VOX when turned on channel displayed/actual received not correct. To me and many these are major BUGS! I am so sick of this already. ENOUGH! Get this fixed! I actually got another router and modem to test out my mini's sudden ethernet disconnect issue. It is still happening, therefore 100% sure it is the mini's issue. I am so sick of being a trouble shooter for you, although I do not contribute or report issues in a well toned manner or at all. I wait and see here if others report similar issues. Not sure where you are to report issues, let alone to be believed at all by TiVo. Thus my lack of respect and willingness to contribute my own findings and issues.


These sound like TE4 issues. Are you running TE3 or TE4? What error are you getting on the sudden Ethernet disconnect?


----------



## headless chicken (Oct 8, 2004)

*TiVo_Ted*, are the egregious Skipmode failures these past couple of weeks related to this bug or a separate issue entirely?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

buildersboy66 said:


> ... sudden ethernet disconnect Mini Vox (NO MOCA PERIOD) ... I actually got another router and modem to test out my mini's sudden ethernet disconnect issue.


What're the RE6700s in your signature for if your Minis are connected via Ethernet?

"(2) TiVo Mini VOX, ... (2) Linksys RE6700's For Minis"​


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

headless chicken said:


> *TiVo_Ted*, are the egregious Skipmode failures these past couple of weeks related to this bug or a separate issue entirely?


What's your TV provider?


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

headless chicken said:


> *TiVo_Ted*, are the egregious Skipmode failures these past couple of weeks related to this bug or a separate issue entirely?


Given that this thread you pointed me to was started on the 2nd, it does appear to be a separate issue. The engineers who developed this feature started diving into it last week. I haven't heard any theories on what is happening with SM being less reliable lately.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Given that this thread you pointed me to was started on the 2nd, it does appear to be a separate issue. The engineers who developed this feature started diving into it last week. I haven't heard any theories on what is happening with SM being less reliable lately.


I liked the theory that captions data is being corrupted by an unrelated Comcast broadcasting glitch, affected both recorded programs and even the originating data if the SkipMode-bots are also using Comcast as their TV provider. But it's just speculation I've seen.


----------



## headless chicken (Oct 8, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> What's your TV provider?


I have Verizon FiOS


----------



## Jetspeedz (Dec 20, 2014)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Wow, so many off-base comments I don't even know how to respond. Let's try bullets:
> - Our beta testers do have access to a Jira portal. If you go back and read my comment, you'll see that I was referring to the masses, not testers.
> - Business issues like margins are probably best not handled here, but our margins are not great
> - If you'd like to see my role in the company, click on my profile. For some reason, your profile is blank.
> ...


Let me try again
- I suggested you setup a JIRA portal for the reasons i described above, read my comments again!

- You stated you don't have the resources to test TE3 because your alpha testers moved on to TE4, so why release a TE3 update when it is not fully tested post build?

- I guess when you code in the Tivo bubble and believe the way Tivo does business by releasing buggy software that end users have to debug for you than you would think my comment was short sided. If you believe Medical or Defense software rules don't apply to consumer products I question your judgement as a well versed developer. Perhaps you need to get out of the Tivo bubble. Last time I checked your car was basically running off an ECM, your TV and just about everything else you use in your day to day life which are consumer products without bugs. Need I go on about exception to Hello World and consumer products?

- Put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig, at the end of the day Tivo continues to release software based on your own guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed especially when you don't regression test or alpha test properly b/c of lack of resources, this is considered a software bug!

- I asked about the option to roll back within TE3, why not provide this capability if the branch exists for TE3?

- Your flip flop on resource gate astonishes me, you either have resources to test TE3 or not? If all your alpha testers are on TE4 than you don't have the resources. Make up your mind because you can't have it both ways.

- In another 2 months the majority of your customers will still be on TE3 and some of your TE4 upgrades will roll back to TE3, you will have a user base now with buggy software and while you believe this rev fixed issues, based on your own guarantee it retains bugs which will never get fixed, and it also introduced a new bug I discovered in Netflix that will render my netflix useless from tivo. Were you also that ambitious when Win Vista and Win 8 came out that everyone would migrate over? There is no IP here, someone else will make a better mouse trap.

Bottom line, provide users the ability to downgrade within the same TE and you will have much happier loyal customers, continue to degrade user experience and see what happens over the long haul. Hopefully this message has some resonance for the better.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> The only bug-free software is Hello World.
> 
> In another 2 months, the majority of our customers will be on TE4, not TE3. That is not arrogance, it is just a fact


Well, well. I just peeked in here. Ted, Hello World was a long time ago. In your profile pic, you do not look that old! I was too interested in mainframes in those days (my mistake in the mid 80's). Worked on them most of my IT career.

Who is this "majority" that will be on TE4? Tivo Owners that bought their tivos? Really?

*That Jetspeedz needs a Spanking BAD for talking like that...*

And finally, I do not think that _*some *_of the people that commented on bugs in here in the last few days really know how Tivo software Development operates. If it's not major, we gotta wait. That's the way it has always been. Of course, "major" is and always has been a Tivo decision as opposed to what the user may want fixed (I Know!). But I do have to say that Tivo is taking a long time, in my opinion, to get a Second TE4 out. Which is why I never would have went to it in the beginning. It only makes sense. What was the rush for people who have tivos already? I will never understand it.

Now again, while they are looking into SM, nudge them a little to find that switch in Series4 to turn it on. Regarding the missing Skips, to me it looks like some local channels on Comcast. Usually either NBC or CBS. It seems to alternate.

Have a great week fixin' things Ted. *And your just Great Ted!* Will be waiting for the RC29 to come down to the Roamios, like you said...


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

samccfl99 said:


> Well, well. I just peeked in here. Ted, Hello World was a long time ago. In your profile pic, you do not look that old! I was too interested in mainframes in those days (my mistake in the mid 80's). Worked on them most of my IT career.
> 
> Who is this "majority" that will be on TE4? Tivo Owners that bought their tivos? Really?
> 
> ...


My local cable company is moving to hydra here shortly. I suspect others are going to also here soon


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Given that this thread you pointed me to was started on the 2nd, it does appear to be a separate issue. The engineers who developed this feature started diving into it last week. I haven't heard any theories on what is happening with SM being less reliable lately.


Two things. I always use the TiVo feedback form when I have a SM failure -> http://survey.confirmit.com/wix/1/p3075425841.aspx. The thread that was started in the Help forum also incudes SM successes (from not just me), so there is no large failure from what I see. If it was possible to compile statistics on SM operation I doubt it would show any change from a year ago.

What causes those panic posts is the lack of any diagnostic information WHY a program doesn't have SM when it should. That's something that could be fixed. It would benefit TE3 and TE4.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Jetspeedz said:


> In another 2 months the majority of your customers will still be on TE3 and some of your TE4 upgrades will roll back to TE3,





samccfl99 said:


> Who is this "majority" that will be on TE4? Tivo Owners that bought their tivos? Really?


The majority of TiVo customers are the MSO users and it sounds like the MSO's are rolling forward with Hydra in the near future and I'd bet they will not have the option to roll back. The retail market unfortunately is a much smaller percentage of their business (I wish it were more).

Scott


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

HerronScott said:


> The majority of TiVo customers are the MSO users and it sounds like the MSO's are rolling forward with Hydra in the near future and I'd bet they will not have the option to roll back. The retail market unfortunately is a much smaller percentage of their business (I wish it were more).
> 
> Scott


Bingo!


----------



## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone, thanks to a few of you sharing your TSN's with me, we figured out what happened here. This was not a bug in our core software or the service. The problem was in the build mechanism that is used to package up the software for delivery to the different flavors of TiVo boxes. For some reason, the Roamio builds for RC30 failed and we had to run them manually. Apparently, the manual build process left out a critical file which is used to cache images from the service onto the DVR box. Since the UI can't find the local images, it displays default images.
> 
> Once a build number is used, it can't be re-created. So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


@TiVo_Ted

Is the fix release to RC29 still scheduled to start today?


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

samccfl99 said:


> Who is this "majority" that will be on TE4? Tivo Owners that bought their tivos? Really?
> 
> *That Jetspeedz needs a Spanking BAD for talking like that...*
> 
> But I do have to say that Tivo is taking a long time, in my opinion, to get a Second TE4 out. Which is why I never would have went to it in the beginning. It only makes sense. What was the rush for people who have tivos already? I will never understand it.


1. Remember, the MSO rentals are king. They are migrating to Hyrda this year. As they continue to do so, there will be even fewer resources than there are today dedicated to retail owners using TE3. And those resources let this bug get out there. The situation is going to deteriorate further as the focus continues to shift from T3 to T4, so Tivo should now throw/create some temporary resources to TE3 to fix the major bugs, test it one final time, and vow to never touch it again.

2. Please, a spanking? Even Tivo_Ted admits they dropped the ball with this Roamio bug. They transferred too many resources to TE4 too quickly and now they can't pull them back. While it isn't fair to compare Tivo to a military/medical developer, they didn't even achieve the low quality expected from a consumer electronic device and they know it. It's not just this bug -- it's the "power saving mode breaks GUI" bug introduced to TE3 the same exact time TE4 rolled out. That should have also been very easily caught.

3. The purpose of pushing Hydra to the retail customers was to use them as beta testers for their more valuable MSO rental customers. The purpose of pushing Hydra out semi-finished just before Xmas was to support the Vox boxes, since they were already going on the shelves and had that voice remote button which needed software to support it.


----------



## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

I have multiple units on TE4 and 1 on TE3, that fact that TiVo has pulled all this off in such a short amount of time without bricking devices is quite remarkable. Yes this was goof up, they admitted to it and stated they will be fixing it. 

If I was in charge of TiVo, I'd say put out one good final firmware for TE3 and call it a day. No more after that.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

TivoJD said:


> @TiVo_Ted
> 
> Is the fix release to RC29 still scheduled to start today?


The Go/No Go decision will be made today. I'll post something once I know when you can force a call to get it.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

foghorn2 said:


> If I was in charge of TiVo, I'd say put out one good final firmware for TE3 and call it a day. No more after that.


Perhaps we can start a thread with TE3 bugs, and get those fixed on your final release? I would like a basic Roamio/Bolt to display RS Corrected errors and, in Diagnostics, display the truth about cable card pairing.

I'm scared that features will be removed from TE3, like network transfer speeds.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

BobCamp1 said:


> 2. Please, a spanking? Even Tivo_Ted admits they dropped the ball with this Roamio bug.


I was talking about the WAY he was "speaking" to Ted. Even I am not that hostile, and if you read many of my posts, you would know that I have always been fairly critical of Tivo Software development and the decisions they sometimes make.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

yeah, we have a history of keyboard warriors chasing away TiVo reps. I just roll my eyes...


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

foghorn2 said:


> If I was in charge of TiVo, I'd say put out one good final firmware for TE3 and call it a day. No more after that.


Really? That's really sad to hear and I am sure the MANY people who love that the "OLD" tivo software is Unique and Great would not appreciate that comment either. But then everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what forums are for...


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

samccfl99 said:


> Really? That's really sad to hear and I am sure the MANY people who love that the "OLD" tivo software is Unique and Great would not appreciate that comment either. But then everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what forums are for...


I'm sure we will end up doing more than 1 more release for TE3, but they may be few and far between. It is definitely a chance for us to identify (and hopefully fix) bugs that people are seeing. We will definitely not be removing any functionality. Before people start throwing out their personal favorites, maybe we need a way to capture and prioritize them? I'll ask our beta team if they have a tool we can use to do this.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

headless chicken said:


> I have Verizon FiOS


As do I and I also have been seeing the skip-mode problems.


----------



## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Once a build number is used, it can't be re-created. So, we are testing RC29 on Roamio devices over the next few days and will plan on updating all customer boxes starting on Monday the 12th. There is effectively no difference between RC29 and RC30. I'm really sorry that all of you Roamio customers ran into this issue.


Thanks for the rapid response. Missing the detailed icons is no big deal to me as it doesn't impact actual functionality (and I almost wish there were an option to turn off the Discovery Bar altogether and let the lists use that space). Curious as to why the RC number is going down rather than up.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

rgr said:


> Thanks for the rapid response. Missing the detailed icons is no big deal to me as it doesn't impact actual functionality (and I almost wish there were an option to turn off the Discovery Bar altogether and let the lists use that space). *Curious as to why the RC number is going down rather than up.*


I found that humorously intriguing as well. Kind of like something out of Terry Gilliam's oddball movie "Brazil."


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

rgr said:


> (and I almost wish there were an option to turn off the Discovery Bar altogether and let the lists use that space)


No _almost_ about it, I *absolutely *wish that!


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Lurker1 said:


> No _almost_ about it, I *absolutely *wish that!


Don't take my eye-candy program porn enticements away! 

(I actually saw some on-point suggestions over the weekend--I can't recall the last time.)


----------



## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

samccfl99 said:


> Really? That's really sad to hear and I am sure the MANY people who love that the "OLD" tivo software is Unique and Great would not appreciate that comment either. But then everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what forums are for...


Why not? fix all the bugs, make one final working perfect firmware, AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Why would one who wants to stay on the TE3 not appreciate that?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Don't take my eye-candy program porn enticements away!


Fret not; the Discovery Bar isn't going anywhere. For the same reason that TiVo is marketing Hydra's new suggestion/prediction mechanism as personalization, rather than actually implementing personalization, the goal is to retain a mechanism through which they can integrate content suggestions for which they're being paid.

At least Hulu offers a plan that allows for eliminating advertising.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

foghorn2 said:


> Why not? fix all the bugs, make one final working perfect firmware, AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Why would one who wants to stay on the TE3 not appreciate that?


I'd at least think they'd stop adding functionality, and just focus on fixes to ensure current, expected functionality. (e.g. One shouldn't have to upgrade to Hydra to have a reliable mobile streaming experience.)


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

RC29 is rolling out over the next 2 nights. 840 and 848 units tonight, 846 tomorrow night. To be safe, we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> RC29 is rolling out over the next 2 nights. 840 and 848 units tonight, 846 tomorrow night. To be safe, we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well.


What time should we reboot to catch it?


----------



## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> What time should we reboot to catch it?


I just forced a call(Roamio box) and it's been downloading for over 3 minutes now(it's still downloading as I type this) so it looks to be live now.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

chrishicks said:


> I just forced a call(Roamio box) and it's been downloading for over 3 minutes now(it's still downloading as I type this) so it looks to be live now.


Just prompted me for a restart too.

Edit: Rebooted and thumbnails are back


----------



## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

foghorn2 said:


> Why not? fix all the bugs, make one final working perfect firmware, AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Why would one who wants to stay on the TE3 not appreciate that?


 It's just the nature of the beast that things like a tivo need updating for various reasons. A very important one is that tivo relies on a lot of code authored by third parties (e.g. The gpl'd linux code here: TiVo - GNU/Linux Source Code ). If *any* of that has a disclosed security flaw that is subsequently fixed, you'd probably want to run the fixed code. Which will require new builds, testing, distribution, etc. Things like security certificates and 3rd party api changes could also require new builds.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> RC29 is rolling out over the next 2 nights. 840 and 848 units tonight, 846 tomorrow night. To be safe, we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well.





PSU_Sudzi said:


> Just prompted me for a restart too.
> 
> Edit: Rebooted and thumbnails are back


Anybody starting a new thread for RC29....?


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Anybody starting a new thread for RC29....?


I got my thumbs back and that's all I care about.  Seriously though haven't found any other bugs yet.


----------



## buildersboy66 (Dec 9, 2016)

What is TE3 or TE4 ? I am not sure of the error code, it just say ethernet has disconnected. I can get right back to program quick also via remote. So it obviously is not a total disconnect from network or network failure. Mini Vox Software Version 21.7.2.RC14-USH-11-A95.


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sure we will end up doing more than 1 more release for TE3, but they may be few and far between. It is definitely a chance for us to identify (and hopefully fix) bugs that people are seeing. *We will definitely not be removing any functionality*. Before people start throwing out their personal favorites, maybe we need a way to capture and prioritize them? I'll ask our beta team if they have a tool we can use to do this.


That's been done already unless there are plans to let us transfer (rather than stream) from PC to Tivo once again.


----------



## buildersboy66 (Dec 9, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> What're the RE6700s in your signature for if your Minis are connected via Ethernet?
> 
> "(2) TiVo Mini VOX, ... (2) Linksys RE6700's For Minis"​


I have hard wired mini I use most to test if issue occurs that way also, it does. As well as ethernet via the RE6700.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

mrsean said:


> That's been done already unless there are plans to let us transfer (rather than stream) from PC to Tivo once again.


You can still transfer from pc to TiVo on gen3.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

buildersboy66 said:


> What is TE3 or TE4 ?


TE == TiVo Experience

aka Encore/gen3 (20.*) or Hydra/gen4 (21.*)


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

buildersboy66 said:


> Mini Vox Software Version 21.7.2.RC14-USH-11-A95.


Then completely unrelated to the thread subject, software version 20.7.4.RC30.


----------



## buildersboy66 (Dec 9, 2016)

Ted then I guess my minis are running TE4. The disconnects are not total network failure, as I said I can get back to live or recorded tv pretty quick with remote...seconds!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mrsean said:


> That's been done already unless there are plans to let us transfer (rather than stream) from PC to Tivo once again.


Are you saying you can't transfer content from a PC to your DVR?


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> You can still transfer from pc to TiVo on gen3.


It didn't work for me last year when I tried with both pyTivo and Tivo Desktop because the Push service was disabled by Tivo last summer. Maybe pull works reliably for some people but it does not for me.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mrsean said:


> It didn't work for me last year when I tried with both pyTivo and Tivo Desktop because the Push service was disabled by Tivo last summer. Maybe pull works reliably for some people but it does not for me.


Sure, push was eliminated quite some time ago, and so obviously is not within the set of features within the scope of @TiVo_Ted's comment. That you can't get pull working doesn't equate to TiVo removing the functionality from gen3 (as they have from gen4).


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

mrsean said:


> It didn't work for me last year when I tried with both pyTivo and Tivo Desktop because the Push service was disabled by Tivo last summer. Maybe pull works reliably for some people but it does not for me.


That stinks, it works flawlessly for me and quite a few other folks here. Maybe try latest version of pyTiVo.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

So installed RC29 and got thumbnails and icons back. 

On a side note, when did they change it so that installs only take one reboot on Roamios? I thought that was a Bolt only thing. Very cool since installs are really quick now.


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Sure, push was eliminated quite some time ago, and so obviously is not within the set of features within the scope of @TiVo_Ted's comment. That you can't get pull working doesn't equate to TiVo removing the functionality from gen3 (as they have from gen4).


Ted did not qualify his statement. He said "We will definitely not be removing any functionality." to which I responded in other words "You already have" which is accurate. Also, it's not just me that has had difficulty with pull.


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

mrsean said:


> That's been done already unless there are plans to let us transfer (rather than stream) from PC to Tivo once again.


He was talking about TE3. You're talking about an issue in TE4. You can still do local transfers if you're not on Hydra.


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I'm sure we will end up doing more than 1 more release for TE3, but they may be few and far between. It is definitely a chance for us to identify (and hopefully fix) bugs that people are seeing. We will definitely not be removing any functionality. Before people start throwing out their personal favorites, maybe we need a way to capture and prioritize them? I'll ask our beta team if they have a tool we can use to do this.





mrsean said:


> Ted did not qualify his statement. He said "We will definitely not be removing any functionality." to which I responded in other words "You already have" which is accurate. Also, it's not just me that has had difficulty with pull.


You are being deliberately misleading by quoting out of context, his entire post was predicated on TE3. Your response was inaccurate.


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

When will my Roamio be fixed? Since 30 - no icons!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Anybody starting a new thread for RC29....?


I will when I get it unless somebody beats me. But it's not a contest and a very large minority think RC is something to drink.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> RC29 is rolling out over the next 2 nights. 840 and 848 units tonight, 846 tomorrow night. To be safe, we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well.





Sparky1234 said:


> When will my Roamio be fixed? Since 30 - no icons!


Check post 230 in this thread?  (Quoted above).

20.7.4.RC30 has arrived......

Oh and our Roamio Pro downloaded the update last night and images are back here also. Funny thing is that my wife did not even mention them not being there.

Scott


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> Oh and our Roamio Pro downloaded the update last night and images are back here also. Funny thing is that my wife did not even mention them not being there.


 lol. Wife never mentioned it either. I got 29 too and rebooted last night after watching the 11pm news. All seems good here.


----------



## davidscarter (Sep 28, 2015)

TiVo_Ted said:


> RC29 is rolling out over the next 2 nights. 840 and 848 units tonight, 846 tomorrow night. To be safe, we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well.


RC29 came through this morning (oddly the scheduled service connection failed, but a subsequent force went fine...) Icons are back, and all else appears fine so far.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

m.s said:


> You are being deliberately misleading by quoting out of context, his entire post was predicated on TE3. Your response was inaccurate.


And use of the future tense "will not be" certainly qualifies the statement further.

Functionality has certainly been lost in TE3 in recent years, and possibly further with the rushed HD UI completion, so there would certainly need to be some discussion as to whether removed functionality was intentional, as well as scoping what functionality should be expected as permanent and supported going forward.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> RC29 ... *we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well*.


FYI... Bolt Update Deletes To Do List and De-Syncs One Pass Manager


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Anybody starting a new thread for RC29....?


 It would be nice if @TiVo_Ted would just start a thread and list the improvements each new release has.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rdrrepair said:


> It would be nice if @TiVo_Ted would just start a thread and list the improvements each new release has.


Remember the old days -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

buildersboy66 said:


> Ted then I guess my minis are running TE4. The disconnects are not total network failure, as I said I can get back to live or recorded tv pretty quick with remote...seconds!


This is a known issue with MINI's on TE4. It usually shows up as a V87 error. We have several fixes in place that should be rolling out soon.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

rdrrepair said:


> It would be nice if @TiVo_Ted would just start a thread and list the improvements each new release has.


I would do that, but you guys frequently beat me to the punch!


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I would do that, but you guys frequently beat me to the punch!


 The floor is yours. Start away


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TiVo_Ted said:


> I would do that, but you guys frequently beat me to the punch!


Getting the "software version information" page updated would be preferable; though two pages would now be needed to track both TE3 & TE4.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Getting the "software version information" page updated would be preferable; though two pages would now be needed to track both TE3 & TE4.


I am wondering how that will work out. Look how long RC14 for TE4 has been out and only a TCF post to go by. Hmm, could this mean more importance being placed on TCF and more TiVo participation here???? Works for me.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

One of my Bolts got RC29 overnight. I don't see anything different. The only reason I knew was because the clock was gone and all 4 tuners were on the same channel.


----------



## Guy Tautenhahn (Mar 13, 2018)

I got my RC29 update when I found my TiVo on this morning. All my icons are back on my Roamio Pro except for one. The TiVo logo is grayed out on the my shows page. Not worried about but just wanted to pass along. All my to do lists and one passes are there.


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

I got RC29 yesterday around 5 pm and after installing and rebooting machine everything looked fine. Later in the evening, about 2 hrs later, I was exiting Netflix and as soon as I did the box spontaneously re-started. I've had no more issues with it since that re-start.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Guy Tautenhahn said:


> I got my RC29 update when I found my TiVo on this morning. All my icons are back on my Roamio Pro except for one. *The TiVo logo is grayed out on the my shows page. *Not worried about but just wanted to pass along. All my to do lists and one passes are there.


You're kidding, right? (The gray, faceless TiVo guy *is* the new TiVo logo, and has been for a while.)


----------



## Guy Tautenhahn (Mar 13, 2018)

@krkaufman Really? I must not be paying attention. I guess I just assumed because the other icons were missing that included TiVo logos. I've had this TiVo for 4 years and a user since 2000. On the startup there is one of the old TiVo logos and then a big grey one. I guess I missed the memo


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Guy Tautenhahn said:


> @krkaufman Really? I must not be paying attention. I guess I just assumed because the other icons were missing that included TiVo logos. I've had this TiVo for 4 years and a user since 2000. On the startup there is one of the old TiVo logos and then a big grey one. I guess I missed the memo


Even that colorful logo has been wiped for the Mini VOX. Replaced by: a blank screen.


----------



## Guy Tautenhahn (Mar 13, 2018)

Good for me though when I got one of my TiVo years ago they gave me a stuffed TiVo logo


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Guy Tautenhahn said:


> View attachment 33352
> Good for me though when I got one of my TiVo years ago they gave me a stuffed TiVo logo


Love it! Years ago I got a little Tivo Guy who is made of some kind of rubbery stuff. He's just little but I like him.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> Getting the "software version information" page updated would be preferable; though two pages would now be needed to track both TE3 & TE4.


Agreed. I'm looking for someone in product management to do this


----------



## Guy Tautenhahn (Mar 13, 2018)

Maybe I’ve been used to seeing the little guy over the many boxes I’ve had. I’ve been wondering where those cool intros went when you restart the box. NASCAR had a “Digger” character hasn’t been around for years too.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Guy Tautenhahn said:


> Maybe I've been used to seeing the little guy over the many boxes I've had. I've been wondering where those cool intros went when you restart the box. NASCAR had a "Digger" character hasn't been around for years too.


Deemed "not adult enough." 

Too many things in life are "adult."


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Guy Tautenhahn said:


> Maybe I've been used to seeing the little guy over the many boxes I've had. I've been wondering where those cool intros went when you restart the box.


Sadly snuffed-out sometime in the last few years. Looks like mid-2015...

Change in Startup Behavior​If feeling nostalgic, see:


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> This is a known issue with MINI's on TE4. It usually shows up as a V87 error. We have several fixes in place that should be rolling out soon.


Best. Post. Ever!  Thanks!


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Sadly snuffed-out sometime in the last few years. Looks like mid-2015...


I liked the roller coaster one.


----------



## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

When my Roamio Pro upgraded to 20.7.4.RC30, i *LOST* all the normal graphics in the Discovery Bar and also in the part that selects various streaming services.  Fortunately, the "downgrade" to 20.7.4.RC29 fixed the problem--so far. (Crossing fingers on this one!)


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Ok, so this is strange. My Roamio basic is now running 20.7.4.RC18 this morning. It did get RC30 and lost the logos a few days or more back. I have not seen anyone else running this old version in some time. How the heck did that happen?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Last night (really this morning) two Roamio 846500 boxes received the update from RC18 to RC29. At this time one box is Pending Restart. Other box failed (C111). I manually started a service connection. It failed after a minute with a C111 error (port failure). I restarted the box then started a new service connection. After five minutes the display went to Getting Account Status, skipped through Downloading, Disconnecting and ended with Done. Not what I'm used to. I hit select and the display became what you see when a restart was selected. I hit thumbs down three times, Enter and the box did the restart. Then a normal restart happened. I have RC29 and one weird experience. It's too early for this stuff.

Final weirdness: neither TiVo displayed the usual "Updating, this may take an hour" message. Both seems to perform a normal restart. Perhaps the update is applied when it's downloaded. That, or RC29 is really small.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jcthorne said:


> Ok, so this is strange. My Roamio basic is now running 20.7.4.RC18 this morning. It did get RC30 and lost the logos a few days or more back. I have not seen anyone else running this old version in some time. How the heck did that happen?


Don't know what happened but I have been on RC18 until today. Try a restart and you might get RC29.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

@TiVo_Ted will there be an update to RC29 for series 4 or Mini boxes?


----------



## Ed Ferguson (Mar 8, 2018)

davidscarter said:


> Ted says the fix is coming next week, so hang in there!


Very glad to see the fix has been accomplished!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I said I was going to do it -> 20.7.4.RC29


----------



## Guy Tautenhahn (Mar 13, 2018)

@krkaufman I've had tivo since 2000. My first one was a Sony then I got a Humax then the hard drive crapped out. Then I got a premiere which I still have but the hard drive expander crapped out also after awhile but the core HD still works but I have a Roamio Pro now which is 4 years old so I believe I have seen most of the openings since 2000. I watched some of them on youtube yesterday.


----------



## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

I do not miss the videos that used to play on boot. Not one bit. I'm glad they're gone.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> @TiVo_Ted will there be an update to RC29 for series 4 or Mini boxes?


Yes, starting to roll out over the next few days in stages.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Don't take my eye-candy program porn enticements away!
> 
> (I actually saw some on-point suggestions over the weekend--I can't recall the last time.)


I would never take anything away from you. I just want an option to turn it off.


----------



## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

Are the Premieres getting the RC30 update?


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

MichaelAinNB said:


> Are the Premieres getting the RC30 update?


 Yes. That update is now called 20.7.4.RC29 but it's the same as 30

@TiVo_Ted said for 30
"- Reboot on Premiere when changing CC settings"

It's the 9th post in this discussion.
20.7.4.RC30 has arrived......


----------



## shoek (Jan 23, 2002)

Both of my TiVo Roamio's have now received RC29 and they no longer have the missing Now Playing images.

Thanks @TiVo_Ted !


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Dumb question..... My Renewed Bolt arrived today and it either had Hydra on it or tried to load it during guided setup. I successfully rolled back to the HD interface. My question is this.... if other updates come out, does it automatically push you onto Hydra or is the "interface" different from the software version so to speak?


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

jlb said:


> Dumb question..... My Renewed Bolt arrived today and it either had Hydra on it or tried to load it during guided setup. I successfully rolled back to the HD interface. My question is this.... if other updates come out, does it automatically push you onto Hydra or is the "interface" different from the software version so to speak?


The latter.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jlb said:


> Dumb question..... My Renewed Bolt arrived today and it either had Hydra on it or tried to load it during guided setup. I successfully rolled back to the HD interface. My question is this.... if other updates come out, does it automatically push you onto Hydra or is the "interface" different from the software version so to speak?


When you ran GS, were you asked for the country once or twice? You can see the current software version by hitting Info when asked for a country. If you see an offer to upgrade to the new Experience show up in My Shows, check the Apps list. Uncheck the box if you find it there. That should not happen with RC29.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jlb said:


> if other updates come out, does it automatically push you onto Hydra or is the "interface" different from the software version so to speak?


You will not be pushed onto Hydra going forward, at least based on TiVo's pledges to date.

As for software/UI versions and updates:

20.* = gen3/Encore (TE3)
21.* = gen4/Hydra (TE4)​
If you're running gen3/Encore, you'll be running some variant of the 20.* software version; and your software version on Hydra/gen4 will be 21.*. Software updates should keep you within these major version branches.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

krkaufman said:


> You will not be pushed onto Hydra going forward, at least based on TiVo's pledges to date.
> 
> As for software/UI versions and updates:
> 
> ...


Thanks and also to others who replied. If definitely in the gen3 branch now... 20.7.4.RC29.....

Very happy that I SHOULD stay in that branch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

jlb said:


> Very happy that I SHOULD stay in that branch.


Just don't let anyone push the Voice button on a Vox remote, if you have one. That will trigger an "upgrade" to Hydra.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

m.s said:


> Just don't let anyone push the Voice button on a Vox remote, if you have one. That will trigger an "upgrade" to Hydra.


Chuckle. TCF needs a special forum/thread for allowing new VOX owners rolling back to Encore/gen3 to pair-up with existing RF remote owners looking to add voice support to swap remotes. (Granted, leaving some RF participants to acquire the Bluetooth USB dongle via other means.)


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Or, in the alternative, rolling back from Hydra on a VOX system with VOX remote gives one an excuse/justification for going out and buying a nifty TiVo Slide Pro remote (no mic button there).


----------



## mr_milo (Jan 22, 2018)

m.s said:


> Just don't let anyone push the Voice button on a Vox remote, if you have one. That will trigger an "upgrade" to Hydra.


Is this only on a main unit? I have a Vox Mini that I am using with my Roamio Plus. I had to downgrade the Vox Mini and my kids hit the Voice button all the time but it has never triggered an upgrade on the Vox Mini.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mr_milo said:


> Is this only on a main unit? I have a Vox Mini that I am using with my Roamio Plus. I had to downgrade the Vox Mini and my kids hit the Voice button all the time but it has never triggered an upgrade on the Vox Mini.


A Mini will prompt you to upgrade if you select a Hydra host. Just don't have a Hydra host.

I hate that remote.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> A Mini will prompt you to upgrade if you select a Hydra host. Just don't have a Hydra host.
> 
> I hate that remote.


And I still think that TiVo has missed a profit center boat by not yet offering (i.e., separately selling) a Slide Pro VOX remote.

But then, I also think that TiVo has missed a profit center boat by not selling a Slide Pro Ultra remote that has more learnable buttons/options, for using with other electronics.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

m.s said:


> Just don't let anyone push the Voice button on a Vox remote, if you have one. That will trigger an "upgrade" to Hydra.


That won't be a problem as the remote sent with my TiVo-renewed Bolt is not a Vox remote.


----------



## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

Is there a way to force the new software? I have done innumerable forced network connections but am still on 21.7.2 thanks!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

CTLesq said:


> Is there a way to force the new software? I have done innumerable forced network connections but am still on 21.7.2 thanks!!!


Current software is 21.7.2.RC14. But that's hydra -> Hydra 21.7.2.RC14 (released Jan 31 2018)

20.7.4.RC29 is the current non-hydra version.


----------



## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Current software is 21.7.2.RC14. But that's hydra -> Hydra 21.7.2.RC14 (released Jan 31 2018)
> 
> 20.7.4.RC29 is the current non-hydra version.


Thank you for ending my confusion!!!!


----------



## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> And I still think that TiVo has missed a profit center boat by not yet offering (i.e., separately selling) a Slide Pro VOX remote.
> 
> But then, I also think that TiVo has missed a profit center boat by not selling a Slide Pro Ultra remote that has more learnable buttons/options, for using with other electronics.


Agreed. Or a partnership with Logitech to make a Tivo Harmony.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> The majority of TiVo customers are the MSO users and it sounds like the MSO's are rolling forward with Hydra in the near future and I'd bet they will not have the option to roll back. The retail market unfortunately is a much smaller percentage of their business (I wish it were more).
> 
> Scott


not the major mso's like comcast,cox,charter maybe smaller cable companies


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

ajwees41 said:


> not the major mso's like comcast,cox,charter maybe smaller cable companies


He means most TiVo customers are not retail customers like us who buy their own boxes but rather customers of smaller cable companies who get their equipment from them.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Nice tweet. Good use of TE3:


----------

