# Want to listen to TIVO through older Receiver when my TV is off



## denisee (Jun 14, 2010)

Hello,

My apologies if this has been answered--I've browsed the forums and saw others ask the question, but I haven't seen it answered. 

I have an older Nakamichi Amp/Receiver. It does not have any HDMI inputs or outputs. I don't plan on replacing it in the near future. 

I play my TIVO sound through my Nakamichi (optical audio), and it works well. I have 5.1 surround, etc (though I have to use pro-logic for netflix). To view video on my Samsung HDTV, I have an HDMI cable plugged directly from the TIVO to the TV. 

Like others, I would like to be able to liste to digital music channels through my nakamichi and have the tv turned off. I was able to do this with my previous DVR. What do I need to adjust in the TIVO settings to achieve this?

thanks


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

Use optical from TiVo to your receiver. 

As long as your receiver is on, the sound will play through optical. Remember, TiVo unit is always on


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## wbertram (Jun 14, 2002)

jmill said:


> Use optical from TiVo to your receiver.
> 
> As long as your receiver is on, the sound will play through optical. Remember, TiVo unit is always on


I don't believe that is true! In fact the OP implied that he could NOT receive the optical audio if his TV was off.

If the TV is off, the TIVO HDMI cannot handshake with any HDMI device, and thus shuts down all HDMI interfaces, including the optical audio.

To the OP:

I don't yet have a TIVO Premier, so I can't help setting it up. But, when I was using HDMI with a Motorola DVR, there were options to set up what, and when, sound came out of the optical audio port. I.e., the optical audio port could be made to be always active.

Also, if you connect the TV using Component Cables, and turn off the HDMI interface, then the optical audio should always be active.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

wbertram said:


> I don't believe that is true! In fact the OP implied that he could NOT receive the optical audio if his TV was off.
> 
> If the TV is off, the TIVO HDMI cannot handshake with any HDMI device, and thus shuts down all HDMI interfaces, including the optical audio.
> 
> ...


Optical has nothing to do with TV or HDMI. If he connects optical straight to the receiver, he will hear the sound.

To wbertram: If you don't have TiVo Premiere, why do you try to sound like you know what you're talking about? You don't. On TiVo Premiere all audio outputs are active at once, no special setting is needed. Once optical is connected to the receiver, the signal will go through. His TV or how it is connected has nothing to do with this.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

wbertram said:


> If the TV is off, the TIVO HDMI cannot handshake with any HDMI device, and thus shuts down all HDMI interfaces, including the optical audio.


That exact setup works just fine with my TiVo HD. HDMI to TV, optical to an amp. I always have sound, regardless of the TV state.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jmill said:


> Optical has nothing to do with TV or HDMI. If he connects optical straight to the receiver, he will hear the sound.


While that is theoretically correct, and works fine with my HD, it is quite possible there is [yet another] design flaw in the Premiere that shuts off sound if it doesn't negotiate with a TV. Gotta love DRM.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

crxssi said:


> While that is theoretically correct, and works fine with my HD, it is quite possible there is [yet another] design flaw in the Premiere that shuts off sound if it doesn't negotiate with a TV. Gotta love DRM.


I have Premiere unit with the following setup:

HDMI goes to TV
Optical audio goes to the receiver.

I can listen to music when TV is off and can listen to MP3 from my NAS without ever turning TV on.

I don't know what "theoretical" design flaw you're talking about. It works in exactly same fashion as it worked in S3, HD and HD XL


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Alot depends on the devices you have in your A/V chain. It will work with some devices, and will not with others.


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## andrewl570 (Apr 7, 2010)

I have my tivo hooked up through my receiver's optical input. When my receiver is on (and turned to the proper input) the tivo sound plays even though the tv is off.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jmill said:


> I don't know what "theoretical" design flaw you're talking about. It works in exactly same fashion as it worked in S3, HD and HD XL


I said it could be a POSSIBLE design flaw, if it didn't work the way we expect it to (like it does in the HD). Your posting that it does work the way expected with your Premiere is far more valuable than my speculation.


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## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

My Tivo HD puts out sound when the tv is off using optical out. It is actually a pain because the tivo remote wont turn the onkyo receiver on and off and I have to mute the sound when I am done watching TV


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jmill said:


> I don't know what "theoretical" design flaw you're talking about. It works in exactly same fashion as it worked in S3, HD and HD XL


From what I've read if some device in the HDMI chain is off or in standby but puts enough of a voltage/signal on the HDMI port for the TiVo to detect, but doesn't perform the HDCP handshake the TiVo will display the "_Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital Media Recorder's HDMI output. Try another TV input._" screen.

And because the TiVo sends the same signal on all outputs that screen (and the silence that accompanies it) is output on every a/v output of the TiVo. 
(This is also why some people get confused about getting an HDMI error when using the component outputs with a second TV)

Also it doesn't _quite_ work the same between S3s and HDs/Premieres


TiVo website said:


> Series3 HD and TiVo HD/Premiere models have different HDMI requirements:
> 
> Series3 HD DVRs require an HDCP key only when you try to view or record copy-protected material while an HDMI cable or HDMI-to-DVI adapter cable is connected to the DVR.
> TiVo HD and Premiere DVRs require an HDCP key any time that you are viewing digital content, whether the content is copy protected or not, if an HDMI cable or HDMI-to-DVI adapter cable is connected to the DVR


But whether this problem gets tripped depends on the other HDMI devices connected to the TiVo, which is why some people have it and others don't.


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## johnm4 (Jun 23, 2008)

My TiVOHD works like this:

TiVo HDMI -> TV DVI
TiVo Optical -> Receiver Optical
NO SOUND when TV off

TiVo HDMI -> TV HDMI
TiVo Optical -> Receiver Optical
Sound WORKS when TV off

It's possible I reversed these scenarios, but you get the point.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Some TV sets will cause the TiVo to shut down all interfaces when they are switched off, because they terminate the HDMI handshake and put the TiVo in a state where it cannot verify the HDCP encryption on the HDMI connection. Some TV sets will maintain the HDMI handshake even when "off" and thus the TiVo will continue to deliver a signal to the other ports while the TV is off. If you get no sound when your TV is off, then there are only four solutions: 

1. Buy a new TV. 
2. Buy a new receiver with HDMI. 
3. Buy an HDMI repeater that maintains the handshake even when the TV is off. 
4. Connect the TV using component cables and analog audio.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

johnm4 said:


> My TiVOHD works like this:
> 
> TiVo HDMI -> TV DVI
> TiVo Optical -> Receiver Optical
> ...


LOL, you're making the point and don't know what works and that doesn't? Are you just making this stuff up?


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## ejasons (Feb 28, 2001)

jmill said:


> LOL, you're making the point and don't know what works and that doesn't? Are you just making this stuff up?


I don't know why you're assuming that everyone's experience must necessarily match your own. And, you're frankly out of your league with your understanding of HDMI...

The difference in the table that you so glibly dismissed is that HDMI does audio, while DVI does not. So, having the TiVo sending audio over HDMI, then not being able to, could very definitely cause a different effect on the optical output.

FWIW, in my experience, I have my TiVo HD connected to an Onkyo receiver, which is then connected to a Sony television. Around once a month or so, I have to power cycle the receiver, because the TiVo says that it wasn't able to create a proper HDMI handshake. I use HDMI audio, so haven't tried seeing whether the optical audio continues to work. I never put my TiVo into standby mode. However, every time I power on my television and receiver, the TiVo displays in the main menu, *not* in Live television, so the power status of the HDMI devices definitely has an affect.


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## denisee (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm impressed with how active these boards are. Let me clarify a couple of things:
It seems that Jonathan S and Arcady understand my situation. In my situation, the receiver is left on--only the TV (with it's HDMI connection to the TIVO) is off--and by doing that it cuts off the sound to the receiver. I have a separate optical connection from the TIVO to the receiver. 

It seems that the issue is the Samsung TV and its HDMI relationship to the TIVO. I'll research the Samsung boards.

thanks


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## KraziJoe (Nov 30, 2007)

If you lose the handshake, I see no reason why the TIVO would turn off all audio outputs. 

Maybe a TIVO Tech could better answer this. 

Also, what TV do you have? if it's not 1080P then run Component Cables, that way you take out any handshake issues.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

KraziJoe said:


> If you lose the handshake, I see no reason why the TIVO would turn off all audio outputs.


I think Jonathan_S explained this with a quote from Tivo a few messages back up. If you're viewing digital content and an HDMI cable is connected then an HDCP key is required or it'll throw up an error screen. The error screen has no audio.

While one could make the argument that a better implementation would be to play the audio regardless, it looks like the programmers took the easier way out.

The ironic thing is that all the DRM in the world doesn't prevent shows from appearing on bittorrent mere minutes after they've finished airing, nor does it prevent movie releases from leaking out before they're even released. All it really does it make it a hassle for the consumer to deal with issues like this.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

smbaker said:


> ...The ironic thing is that all the DRM in the world doesn't prevent shows from appearing on bittorrent mere minutes after they've finished airing, nor does it prevent movie releases from leaking out before they're even released. All it really does it make it a hassle for the consumer to deal with issues like this.


Besides making every consumer pay for the equipment and software to keep that consumer from using the device he/she is paying for. This Am Bizzaroworld.

As I've mentioned in my case I figured out on my own that *HDCP was making my S3 TiVo crash* every time I turned the TV off.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

netringer said:


> Besides making every consumer pay for the equipment and software to keep that consumer from using the device he/she is paying for. This Am Bizzaroworld.


Yep. Welcome to DRM. It only punishes paying and/or honest customers.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

crxssi said:


> Yep. Welcome to DRM. It only punishes paying and/or honest customers.


Agreed, 100%!!


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## barndogusn (Jan 8, 2011)

I know this post is old, but I thought I would share my findings that aren't mentioned here. I have my Premiere connected to my Sony KDL46-V5100 via HDMI for video output, and also have an optical cable run to my older Yamaha receiver for digital audio output. I was experiencing the same problem with the audio cutting out, and I was confused as to why this was happening. My main goal is to be able to listen to Pandora through my Premiere while the TV is off, and without actually trying it out I was playing with the connection while watching various TV shows. After stumbling on these posts about the HDCP handshake being the overall issue, I decided to test Pandora to see if maybe it falls outside of the realm of HDCP protected content. Sure enough, Pandora plays just find through the optical output while my TV is off. It appears only HDCP protected content such as the cable channels themselves is governed by the handshake process. I would assume other services such as Netflix would also work fine through the optical, but who listens to movies without also watching it on your TV. This issue really only applies to music for me, and since Pandora works fine I'm good to go. I have not been able to test if an analog output works fine while the TV is off and HDMI is also connected, I would assume you could run analog audio off the Premiere in addition to optical as a workaround on a different receiver channel. Thanks for the wealth of information guys, hope my 2 cents helps someone!


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## EldRick (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a Westinghouse TV, and when I turn it off (using HDMI-to-DVI input and RCA audio out), the tivo turns off, and the music stops.

The solution? Just unplug the DVI cable from the TV - the tivo then continues to play the selected music channel after turning the TV off. I didn't try this with an HDMI cable, but assume that it would work the same.

To make this more convenient, I've ordered a cheap HDMI switch with IR control, so I can just switch the TV out of circuit, which should work just as well.


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## MrJedi (Apr 13, 2011)

My $.02 If you use the composite audio outs there shouldn't be any problems in my experience. I have a long RCA cable that I have run to the receiver that controls my outdoor speakers. Seems to work even when the TV is on or off. This allows me to have an HDMI to my living room receiver and RCA to the outdoor receiver. 

I did this so I can watch/listen to the TV when I am on the back deck having a quick smoke or when I am grilling. It has also come in handy when I have parties. I can throw on Pandora via the TiVo, turn the TV off if I want (leaving the receiver on), and have Pandora on in the house and outside.

I have no experience trying to use the optical and HDMI at the same time on the Premiere so I cannot speak to that.


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## EldRick (Jan 3, 2012)

*I think this varies by television model and brand.*


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

EldRick said:


> I have a Westinghouse TV, and when I turn it off (using HDMI-to-DVI input and RCA audio out), the tivo turns off, and the music stops.
> 
> The solution? Just unplug the DVI cable from the TV - the tivo then continues to play the selected music channel after turning the TV off. I didn't try this with an HDMI cable, but assume that it would work the same.
> 
> To make this more convenient, I've ordered a cheap HDMI switch with IR control, so I can just switch the TV out of circuit, which should work just as well.


I agree with MrJedi about using the RCA jacks (red and white) for the aux audio to your amplifier. I use them to send audio (through an old computer speaker amplifier) to a set of ear buds that I use while riding my stationary bike. Those outputs are always on regardless of what state the TV is in.


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## EldRick (Jan 3, 2012)

> Those outputs are always on regardless of what state the TV is in.


Not true with my Westy TV


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## EldRick (Jan 3, 2012)

> To make this more convenient, I've ordered a cheap HDMI switch with IR control, so I can just switch the TV out of circuit, which should work just as well.


Update - the $11 HDMI switch works perfectly for this, and even comes with a battery in the remote. I bought this one from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015YWKYY

I can now switch the TV away from the tivo, and turn off the TV to listen to music.

Update 2: Sweeeet - I even got the switch to work with my Logitech 650 remote - it's now one button to listen to music without the video - it switches the TV away from the Tivo, turns off the TV, and sets my preferred channel.

One would have thought that by now Tivo would have done a deal with Logitech to make a more useful remote, with programmable controls for more than one device (Power and Mute is nowhere near adequate). Oh well, the Logitech 650 is not a bad solution.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

This looks like it could work too: http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-1-Out-Auto-Switch-Cable/dp/B0018DQYQ2/ref=pd_cp_e_1

I'm kind of interested in a HDMI switch, even though my TV has 4 HDMI inputs.. I want it to WORK AROUND the [email protected]$ DRM.

This will make HD snobs gasp, but I have my TV on my hard drive/DVD recorder input most of the time (component), and use THAT to switch among other inputs -- largely because it's convenient AND I record stuff from my Tivos to that often (nowadays mostly to watch faster than realtime, since to keep recordings, I just download them to a computer).

But if that recorder is doing something, I want to be able to watch the Tivo independently.. But I can't leave HDMI plugged in, because then I get the "HDCP not supported" since the TV isn't on the HDMI input.

So a switch (and I actually think I want a 'dumb' switch) would let me leave it plugged into hdmi, but manually switch both the TV and the HDMI switch on the relatively rare times I want to actually use HDMI.


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