# Roamio missing "Save until space needed" option



## CeeBee39 (Jan 18, 2015)

Just upgraded to Roamio from Premier and have noted that the "Save until space needed" option is not available for shows that have been newly recorded or transferred from the Premiere. Season Pass Manager has space needed option selected but it doesn't actually work. TiVo support was surprised at this but would only guess that the feature had been removed in a recent software update. Looking at the Romio manual online I see until space needed option mentioned under the "Setting a show's recording options" section.

Has anyone else noticed this? Seems like a very useful feature to have eliminated as I used it all the time on my Premiere.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Yes, I sort of noticed this and it really ticked me off. Not because the option was missing, but because for some reason my Roamio Pros started deleting the older episodes of a show I have a SP for even though the Pro was only at around 60% capacity. I didn't have that SP set to "keep until I delete" and didn't really expect them to disappear. Then when I went back to view one, I realized that episodes were missing.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

When was "Keep until space needed" _*ever*_ an option for individual recordings on a _*TiVo*_? It certainly doesn't exist on any of my TiVos. I have two Roamios, a Premiere, a THD and a Series 2.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

It is a season pass option. Individual shows only have KUID or keep until a date. This is on a premiere as of today.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> When was "Keep until space needed" _*ever*_ an option for individual recordings on a _*TiVo*_? It certainly doesn't exist on any of my TiVos. I have two Roamios, a Premiere, a THD and a Series 2.


I don't recall that as a "configurable option" either. However I also don't recall episodes being deleted when the SP was set to "keep at most: 25 episodes or all episodes" and when the Roamio was only at 60% (or maybe a bit less) capacity.

In my case, a SP had about 7 episodes (Show was Gotham - my son wanted to watch it). SP set to "25 episodes". Roamio at no more than 60% capacity. Roamio started deleting the earliest episodes. I have no comprehension as to why it would have done this. It was not a one time event. It deleted several episodes.

Edit: To be more accurate, I thought "keep until space needed" meant "keep it until future recording conflicts are generated such that a SP or wishlist (or individual recording) will not record. Based on the activity of the Roamio Pro, "space needed" seems to be somewhat vague....


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> I don't recall that as a "configurable option" either. However I also don't recall episodes being deleted when the SP was set to "keep at most: 25 episodes or all episodes" and when the Roamio was only at 60% (or maybe a bit less) capacity.
> 
> In my case, a SP had about 7 episodes (Show was Gotham - my son wanted to watch it). SP set to "25 episodes". Roamio at no more than 60% capacity. Roamio started deleting the earliest episodes. I have no comprehension as to why it would have done this. It was not a one time event. It deleted several episodes.
> 
> Edit: To be more accurate, I thought "keep until space needed" meant "keep it until future recording conflicts are generated such that a SP or wishlist (or individual recording) will not record. Based on the activity of the Roamio Pro, "space needed" seems to be somewhat vague....


This is a different issue from what the OP reported. He is complaining about the removal of an option that was never there in the first place.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> This is a different issue from what the OP reported. He is complaining about the removal of an option that was never there in the first place.


Indeed. Do you think he meant "Keep until I delete"? That would at least make sense, because you can't set KUID until a program has completed transfer. Except of course that never was an option on a transferring program. Clearly OP is quite confused.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> This is a different issue from what the OP reported. He is complaining about the removal of an option that was never there in the first place.


I'm not sure that's correct.

His quote of "Season Pass Manager has space needed option selected but it doesn't actually work."

I agree that the wording of the OP makes it a little difficult to know for sure. However one thing is sure, and that is that I for one have experienced when the "save until space needed" is apparently not working properly or at least consistently. I've had to default to use "Save until I delete" as my default as a result. But the OP confused me a bit with the description of "recently recorded" or transferred thing.


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## CeeBee39 (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. Apparently I am a bit confused (but not quite confused!). I was certain that on my Premier I could go into a show after it had recorded and change the save setting to Until Space Needed but going back to the Premier now I don't see that option so either I'm confused as stated or something changed. In my defense I will point out that the support person I spoke with and the supervisor at TiVo tech support both agreed with me that they remember the option being available. Maybe what I thought I was remembering was that shows recorded with a SP set to Until Space Needed would show Until Space Needed somewhere when I looked after the show recorded, not that I could actually change the setting. When new shows started recording on the Roamio and I couldn't find any TiVo documentation that said what a blue dot meant and couldn't see any verification of Until Space Needed status I figured the setting in the SP wasn't working. Probably should have just asked my wife as she's the one who actually uses it most.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Just goes to show that most TIVo CSRs and their supervisors are just as clueless as other companies CRSs.

The only time I've seen a "keep until space needed" option is on a DirecTV DVR, and even there I'm not sure of the exact wording.


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## elborak (Jul 15, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> The only time I've seen a "keep until space needed" option is on a DirecTV DVR, and even there I'm not sure of the exact wording.


"Keep until: Space needed" was/is a ReplayTV option.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Isn't the reality of a Tivo that everything is, by default, keep until space needed unless it's KUID?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> Isn't the reality of a Tivo that everything is, by default, keep until space needed unless it's KUID?


Yes. The mystery is what OP thinks he would get from KUSN if it were to be an option. Or perhaps he has some mistaken idea by specifying a date when something can be deleted it will be deleted on that date.

I'm pretty sure OP is more confused than he thinks he is.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I just took this picture...


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Arcady said:


> I just took this picture...


That's an SP. It's also an option when scheduling an individual recording. The OP is referring to the options for changing the "keep until" for an existing recording.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> That's an SP. It's also an option when scheduling an individual recording. The OP is referring to the options for changing the "keep until" for an existing recording.


Yeah, I know. But some people in this thread seemed to be saying that there was no KUSN option at all.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Arcady said:


> Yeah, I know. But some people in this thread seemed to be saying that there was no KUSN option at all.


Only when viewed out of context.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

CeeBee39 said:


> Thanks for the replies. Apparently I am a bit confused (but not quite confused!). I was certain that on my Premier I could go into a show after it had recorded and change the save setting to Until Space Needed but going back to the Premier now I don't see that option so either I'm confused as stated or something changed. In my defense I will point out that the support person I spoke with and the supervisor at TiVo tech support both agreed with me that they remember the option being available. Maybe what I thought I was remembering was that shows recorded with a SP set to Until Space Needed would show Until Space Needed somewhere when I looked after the show recorded, not that I could actually change the setting. When new shows started recording on the Roamio and I couldn't find any TiVo documentation that said what a blue dot meant and couldn't see any verification of Until Space Needed status I figured the setting in the SP wasn't working. Probably should have just asked my wife as she's the one who actually uses it most.


The option you had on your Premiere and still have on your Roamio for changing the retention of existing recordings was and is *Keep Until*. Any show you record is inherently "Keep Until Space is Needed", absent software bugs TiVo won't delete anything until has run out of space or you explicitly delete it. From the way you ask the question and responded to the comments I infer that you have the false conclusion that "Keep Until Space is Needed" is a specification that would actually do something, but in actual fact TiVo doesn't delete anything unless it runs out of space or you manually delete something. (Or there's a software problem.)


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> I don't recall that as a "configurable option" either. However I also don't recall episodes being deleted when the SP was set to "keep at most: 25 episodes or all episodes" and when the Roamio was only at 60% (or maybe a bit less) capacity.


Based on everything I've read here and experienced for myself over the years, the only right way to use the "Keep until" setting on a TiVo is to just ignore it. Or, at most, use "Keep until I delete" _very_ sparingly -- say, for 1 in 100 recordings -- and otherwise ignore the setting. In that situation, the TiVo manages the recordings as one would expect. But start to mess with a lot of "keep untils", and you start getting weird, seemingly very premature deletions. There's still a kind of logic to it, but it's a logic that's difficult for mere human minds to grasp. You're better off not trying, seriously.


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