# Snowpiercer Season 1 on TNT *Spoilers*



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

The movie was watchable but not one that moved me to purchasing for my movie library. However, the series has me intrigued with its whodunnit angle and very attractive male lead.

No other forensic experts onboard? You'd think they would have carefully planned for key skills when selecting the elite to occupy the train.

I wasn't totally shocked with the Mr. Wilford reveal but appreciate it.

Imprisoning people in drawers? That's new. I hope they leave out this movie aspect:


Spoiler



using children to keep the engine running.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I recorded this and will watch tonight. Mildly interested but might not have watched it if it wasn't summer and trapped at home. Hopefully it's not too "sci-fi" for me.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Great movie in a an icy Mad Max kind of way. I didn't realize until after the Parasite movie hype that the Snowpiercer movie was from Bong Joon-Ho. In retrospect, the social class themes make a whole lot of sense.

I liked the first episode enough, though agree with @Beryl it doesn't make much sense they didn't have any other detective/forensics person on board. Would have made more sense if the upper classes did have a detective and that's who was murdered. But then again, we wouldn't have had the great line of "I guess Mr. Wilford didn't think rich people would murder each other." which made me laugh out loud.

Loved seeing the actress who was sooo good as Martha from The Americans! That holds promise.

Surprised to see full tushy nudity on TNT, a cable show, but I haven't seen too many shows on that channel so maybe I'm just out of the loop.

Interested to see where they go in exploration of the concept of how to build an entire ecosystem/biosphere within the confines of a narrow train that is always in motion.


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## KDeFlane (Jan 29, 2014)

i only watched the opening scenes, hoping for some backstory or set-up explanations. Do they expect TNT viewers to already know the movie and/or the graphic novel on which it is based? I had questions... Nevermind. This might be the kind of show that requires some suspension of disbelief. Buy into the premise as a rack on which to hang the stories. Reviews of the pilot were not enthusiastic, and it's not the mood I need to be in right now.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Beryl said:


> I wasn't totally shocked with the Mr. Wilford reveal but appreciate it.


I only saw the movie once, in the theater -- but I seem to recall...



Spoiler



...a similar reveal being in the movie.





tivotvaddict said:


> Surprised to see full tushy nudity on TNT, a cable show, but I haven't seen too many shows on that channel so maybe I'm just out of the loop.


In recent years, ad-supported cable networks have gotten more bold with language and nudity, because the advertisers (and viewers) are okay with it.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

trainman said:


> I only saw the movie once, in the theater -- but I seem to recall...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



This reveal was different. In the movie there was no real interaction with others on the train. Certainly not getting as far back as the tail section.



Regarding the swimming scene, this was essentially an upskirt shot with thigh gap. It was risque for TNT. Depending on how the shadows are interpreted I can see more than a few complaints to the FCC.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

KDeFlane said:


> i only watched the opening scenes, hoping for some backstory or set-up explanations. Do they expect TNT viewers to already know the movie and/or the graphic novel on which it is based?


I thought the animated opening explained the backstory well enough.


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## rharmelink (Dec 1, 2015)

The premise is absurd. Who is maintaining the train tracks? What happens if an earthquake, rock slide, or avalanche destroys a section of track?

I'd rather they did something with Hugh Howey's Wool-iverse. Silos with functions by floor make more sense than a moving train with functions by cars.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

rharmelink said:


> The premise is absurd. Who is maintaining the train tracks? What happens if an earthquake, rock slide, or avalanche destroys a section of track?


One must suspend logic when watching this series and the movie.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

rharmelink said:


> The premise is absurd. Who is maintaining the train tracks? What happens if an earthquake, rock slide, or avalanche destroys a section of track?.


The original story is first and foremost social commentary. The movie is an action adventure film with social commentary secondary. Scientific accuracy doesn't make the list.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

justen_m said:


> The original story is first and foremost social commentary. The movie is an action adventure film with social commentary secondary. Scientific accuracy doesn't make the list.


I just wish the libraries were open so I could get a copy of the graphic novels to read.


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Its a metaphor.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

dwatt said:


> I just wish the libraries were open so I could get a copy of the graphic novels to read.


I read library copies too. My library also has the DVD and Blu-ray. All checked out, but not a long waiting list. However, after the SAH order 3/25, the library extended all due dates to 6/17 and advised people to hold onto their materials until the order is lifted. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie. Too bad TNT isn't airing the movie.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ct1 said:


> Its a metaphor.


Or an allegory.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

ct1 said:


> Its a metaphor.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or an allegory.


Fight! Fight! Fight!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The movie is streaming on Netflix FYI.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dwatt said:


> Fight! Fight! Fight!


Which is more powerful? A metaphor, or an allegory?


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

justen_m said:


> I read library copies too. My library also has the DVD and Blu-ray. All checked out, but not a long waiting list. However, after the SAH order 3/25, the library extended all due dates to 6/17 and advised people to hold onto their materials until the order is lifted. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie. Too bad TNT isn't airing the movie.


I still have some things due back just after SAH orders that are still in my library basket near the couch. I would guess that TNT didn't lead in with the movie because the didn't want to spoil the series even if it will be slightly different.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, it would have been borderline insane for them to run the movie at any point in the near past. The show isn't a sequel to the movie; it's a remake (or rather, it's a fresh adaptation of the same source material).


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## KDeFlane (Jan 29, 2014)

yes, i watched the opening animation. So: 
How long did it take for the climate to change? When were the tracks built? Wouldn't they need to wait for the oceans to freeze solid enough to lay track which encircles the globe? How did people survive during that period? Why couldn't they continue to use that method of survival? Why must the train move to maintain humanity? Why is it more economical to burn fuel to perpetuate that motion? 
...etc.
Maybe that kind of backstory can be dripped into the current story thru exposition and other demonstrations of their technology. I just didn't have the patience to wait for it. It's my loss. Not all genres are meant for all types of fans.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

It might have been better If we could understand what everyone was saying in the Tail. Even the CC couldn't understand.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

We have a good murder mystery on our hands. Wrong person put into "prison". Surely there is a big cover up of other problems.

I'm in.

I've seen the movie.. Once. Know nothing of the graphic novel other than knowing it exists and the movie and this TV series are based on it. The only base premis I know/remember is the same thing I knew from the movie. You see it in the opening cartoon.. Global warming.. Scientists try to fix it and cool the planet. They mess up and freeze it.. oooppss....

Other things from the movie?



Spoiler



I too 'member the kids with their small fast agile hands fixing the train as it moves. and also the source of the rations for the people in the tail.. Ewwww...



I think I'm gonna enjoy this and not get too worried about how this series differs from the movie or the source material.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Did anyone else get an "Ascension" vibe from this?


KDeFlane said:


> This might be the kind of show that requires some suspension of disbelief.


Some?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Did anyone else get an "Ascension" vibe from this?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

KDeFlane said:


> yes, i watched the opening animation. So:
> How long did it take for the climate to change? When were the tracks built? Wouldn't they need to wait for the oceans to freeze solid enough to lay track which encircles the globe? How did people survive during that period? Why couldn't they continue to use that method of survival? Why must the train move to maintain humanity? Why is it more economical to burn fuel to perpetuate that motion?
> ...etc.
> Maybe that kind of backstory can be dripped into the current story thru exposition and other demonstrations of their technology. I just didn't have the patience to wait for it. It's my loss. Not all genres are meant for all types of fans.


My impression so far is that it's not a matter of "waiting for an explanation", it's a matter of "here is the way it is, no further explanation required". If that's not good enough and you need a backstory that explains it I agree you won't be happy with this show.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I figured the Sci Fi geeks on here would rip this because it's totally unbelievable. For me? I don't care about that, and I suspect some of those concerns might come into play at some point. I thought it was pretty good and I'm in for now. The reveal at the end was something I thought was going to happen from about the middle of the episode do it didn't surprise me.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Since there are so many unbelievable things to pick at, it really isn't worth discussing the "science" - It would take less time to discuss what in the show _is_ believable. Take it as a murder mystery and enjoy.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

One thing to bear in mind is that about a year and a half passed between filming the pilot and the rest of the first season (about halfway through that span they did some reshoots for the pilot). So it's possible the rest of the series will have some differences in approach...

More than usual, this is a show that one should give at least two episodes before deciding on.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

The train concept doesn't bother me. I mean it doesn't make any sense at all, but I understand that you just have to accept it or there's no point in even watching the show. The thing I find a little harder to accept is how large some of the interior spaces appear to be as you get closer to the front of the train. Some of those train compartments must be using TARDIS technology. 

I liked the pilot, and I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the season. I enjoyed the movie as well.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tivotvaddict said:


> Loved seeing the actress who was sooo good as Martha from The Americans! That holds promise.


 I had to look this up on the Wikipedia page to see who she played because at the time This is what it says (gonna spoiler tag just in case )



Spoiler



Alison Wright: Ruth Wardell: A careful and quiet, but pragmatic and independent thinker who must come to realize her own strength. She lives with her husband and daughter in a third-class cabin and works in the train's nail salon.



I went back and watched to see where she gets introduced. We see a woman approach Voice of the Train/Mr. Wilford in what appears to be the first class dining car. Woman tells Mr. Wilford about an issue in the spa.. Hey... that's "Martha" . There she is.. Wilford calls her Ruth... Ruth is the person that goes to the tail to fetch our former police detective.

So.. what gives here? That doesn't sound at all like what is described on Wikipedia in the spoiler tag above.

I noticed another discrepancy too while reading through the character list (dangerous, I suppose as lists a ton of characters, many who probably have yet to appear). I saw this description for a character named "L.J"



Spoiler



Annalise Basso as L.J. Folger: A quiet and diligent Midwestern girl who lives with her parents in a third-class cabin and works in the greenhouse car. While poor, she is not as desperate as those that live in the tail of the train and has made peace with her daily routine until a major event shakes up her world



We meet L.J. in the same scene where we first meet Ruth.. In the what looks like the first class dining car. This is the young woman who wants to go get some noodles from Third Class.

What the heck is going on here? I guess Wikipedia is just flat out wrong? Was it written long ago and maybe rolls changed?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I liked it. It doesn't bother me that parts of the story framework are absurd. If I can watch shows with dragons, wizards and alien planets where everybody speaks English, I can watch this.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

The only thing I had a problem with was how Jennifer Connelly's character could seemingly be at the front of the train to the back of the train and then back to the front in a moments notice without even breaking a sweat.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

vertigo235 said:


> The only thing I had a problem with was how Jennifer Connelly's character could seemingly be at the front of the train to the back of the train and then back to the front in a moments notice without even breaking a sweat.


Just think of it as 24 on a train.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> The only thing I had a problem with was how Jennifer Connelly's character could seemingly be at the front of the train to the back of the train and then back to the front in a moments notice without even breaking a sweat.


They didn't have to walk the entire length of the train. They showed the system below that allowed them to quickly travel back and forth.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

gweempose said:


> They didn't have to walk the entire length of the train. They showed the system below that allowed them to quickly travel back and forth.


yup.. the train is so long it has its own train to get around


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I love that the train has a subway system...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> yup.. the train is so long it has its own train to get around


A Russian Nesting Train 

I was trying to conjure up how long a 1001 car train might be. I figured it's got to be a couple of miles.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

….and to think that people had a problem with HBO's "Avenue 5" 26 second communication delay


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

dwatt said:


> Depending on how the shadows are interpreted I can see more than a few complaints to the FCC.


People can _try_ complaining to the FCC, but they have no jurisdiction over content on cable networks.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

gweempose said:


> They didn't have to walk the entire length of the train. They showed the system below that allowed them to quickly travel back and forth.


Ah, I missed this, that would explain it. Need to rewatch.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

vertigo235 said:


> Ah, I missed this, that would explain it. Need to rewatch.


There was a quick scene were they used it. I am curious if it in beneath every car for the full train length or just below certain cars that would be unsafe to transit through. Like fuel storage, heavy mechanical, etc.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

When watching TNT's Snowpiercer, it's especially necessary to remember the immortal words of James T Kirk:




...*not directed to anyone, I just love this clip.*


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

dwatt said:


> There was a quick scene were they used it. I am curious if it in beneath every car for the full train length or just below certain cars that would be unsafe to transit through. Like fuel storage, heavy mechanical, etc.


It was right after they take Layton out of the Tail: they handcuff him and shove him down a ladder. They get on a little cart and go zooming off, then we see him come back up a ladder and he's in 3rd class now.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

KDeFlane said:


> yes, i watched the opening animation. So:
> How long did it take for the climate to change? When were the tracks built? Wouldn't they need to wait for the oceans to freeze solid enough to lay track which encircles the globe? How did people survive during that period? Why couldn't they continue to use that method of survival? Why must the train move to maintain humanity? Why is it more economical to burn fuel to perpetuate that motion?
> ...etc.
> Maybe that kind of backstory can be dripped into the current story thru exposition and other demonstrations of their technology. I just didn't have the patience to wait for it. It's my loss. Not all genres are meant for all types of fans.


The backstory that I knew of and was lightly touched on in the intro was that the train was dubbed "Wilford's Folly" and was in place before the climate change chemtrail disaster.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I had to look this up on the Wikipedia page to see who she played because at the time This is what it says (gonna spoiler tag just in case )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that seems way off. Will be interesting to see if the Wikipedia page gets edited/updated. Perhaps it's a different Ruth? But then we have L.J. ... who certainly isn't poor. I have to imagine either the roles changed, the actors switched roles, or maybe the page info refers to backstory, though that seems more feasible for the Ruth Wardell role than the LJ Folger role.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tivotvaddict said:


> Wow, that seems way off. Will be interesting to see if the Wikipedia page gets edited/updated. Perhaps it's a different Ruth? But then we have L.J. ... who certainly isn't poor. I have to imagine either the roles changed, the actors switched roles, or maybe the page info refers to backstory, though that seems more feasible for the Ruth Wardell role than the LJ Folger role.


Yeah.. That thought crossed my mind about Ruth.. that there is backstory to her that will be revealed.. Or maybe it's flat out wrong. Or changed.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

I don't need scientific accuracy. I can suspend disbelief. But I would appreciate a stated reason, however implausible, why a train -- one that _has_ to keep moving -- made more sense than something stationary.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

tlc said:


> I don't need scientific accuracy. I can suspend disbelief. But I would appreciate a stated reason, however implausible, why a train -- one that _has_ to keep moving -- made more sense than something stationary.


Maybe I'm making this up in my mind, but I thought the train was circling the earth so it would always been in a geographic location where it was summer. Still super cold, but not as bad as the winter, plus more hours of sunlight, etc. Was that ever mentioned in the books or movie, or was that my fanboy imagination?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

justen_m said:


> Maybe I'm making this up in my mind, but I thought the train was circling the earth so it would always been in a geographic location where it was summer. Still super cold, but not as bad as the winter, plus more hours of sunlight, etc. Was that ever mentioned in the books or movie, or was that my fanboy imagination?


I think it's just you. That wouldn't make sense even by Snowpiercer standards! () A train going around the Earth once per year could only travel at just under 3mph, and that's at the equator...at other latitudes it would have to be even slower.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think it's just you. That wouldn't make sense even by Snowpiercer standards! () A train going around the Earth once per year could only travel at just under 3mph, and that's at the equator...at other latitudes it would have to be even slower.


I would also assume that for this to happen, the train would have to travel north-south and not east-west. Did they mention which direction they are going?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I would also assume that for this to happen, the train would have to travel north-south and not east-west. Did they mention which direction they are going?


I don't think so, but I'm pretty sure they were crossing the Rockies in Canada...which would have to make it E-W or W-E, since the Rockies run N-S...


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

They didn't say directly but there was, at one point, the briefest flash of a map with a red line which I assumed was the track of the train. That line went all over the place, it wasn't going in a straight line. For example I think I saw it going around the outline of South America (or maybe it was Africa, it was very quick and I didn't bother to back up and freeze it). So I don't think they're just going in a circle around the globe.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

madscientist said:


> They didn't say directly but there was, at one point, the briefest flash of a map with a red line which I assumed was the track of the train. That line went all over the place, it wasn't going in a straight line.


I paused it to look at it. It wrapped all around the earth, going hodge-podge in every direction, NSEW, over most of the earth. There didn't seem to be any pattern or reason easily discernible as to the route.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think it's just you. That wouldn't make sense even by Snowpiercer standards! () A train going around the Earth once per year could only travel at just under 3mph, and that's at the equator...at other latitudes it would have to be even slower.


Hmmm. I probably read/saw a sci-fi story about circling a planet's surface daily to avoid the extreme heat/cold of the day/night.


Steveknj said:


> I would also assume that for this to happen, the train would have to travel north-south and not east-west. Did they mention which direction they are going?


In E1 I think they were traveling north through the Cascades. Jennifer Connelly says the temp is -119.6C, they are entering the Yukon territory of the former Canada, 6 years, 9 months, 26 days since departure. In the show's opening intro/credits, there briefly appeared what I thought might be the path of the train.

I just checked. It appears around minute 3 on my TNT recording, after the first blueprints of the train.

There is text that says 2.7 revolutions a year. The path is not around the equator. Going frame-by-frame, looks like the route shown starts near... (I'm guessing at all these cities/countries) Anchorage, then south to Portland, east to Boise, south to SLC, Phoenix, along the Pacific Coast to the southern tip of South America, then north along the Atlantic Coast to Houston, then maybe Atlanta, DC, Chicago, up into Canada, back east to Ottowa, then straight north into the Arctic, east across the northern part of Greenland, then off-map, then south from the Arctic to central Russia, west to Moscow, Madrid, south across Gibraltar to Morocco, then along Africa's Atlantic Coast down to South Africa, up along the East Coast (skipping the Horn) to Egypt. Then the map fades out, after just showing about half a circumnavigation. Probably east across southern Asia to the Pacific, maybe north to Vladivostok, then back to Alaska?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

So I took a few pictures of my tv screen. The red circles with the white 'W' are probably Wilford corporate cities, maybe the original train stops or something. Plus I grabbed one about production that seemed interesting.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I suppose they could be heading north or south. Maybe south is more likely, having come across the Bering straight, through Anchorage, and heading back down through the Yukon and BC to Seattle, former(?) USA.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

I think the train was chosen because it can keep moving and not get covered with snow and they made it go around the world so they can check if any place on earth has become habitable. That's hard to do when stuck in a bunker under the snow and ice.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I think the writers are reading this looking for the best reason for the train being continually on the move


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Tony_T said:


> I think the writers are reading this looking for the best reason for the train being continually on the move


Was that question ever answered in the original source material?


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

For a while there I was excited that Hector Salamanca made it onto the train until... oops, not enough availability for that. Time to get back to the BCS universe. 

And appropriately Jeff the Doorman, aka Lead Brakeman Roche, welcomes Layton into the sunlight of the 3rd class mess hall.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Was that question ever answered in the original source material?


I've read it, but obviously don't remember, see my reply above.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I watched the first episode and it had me scratching my head, mainly because I had never seen the movie. I managed to find a copy of it and watched it the other day. Now, I'm usually one to try and ignore the absurdity of any plot and just try to enjoy it for the mindless entertainment that it is, but this premise is so stupid that it defies belief. The original writer for this must have been doing mushrooms or some other mind bending drug to come up with this plot. That being said, I'm going to try my best and push this way down deep and try to enjoy it at face value. It's definitely different than anything else on TV right now so it's got my attention. After seeing the movie it seemed like a pretty big stretch to make this into a TV series. It's like taking Murder On The Orient Express and dragging it out for an entire season. 

Aside from the issue of mankind freezing the planet in an attempt to curb global warming, the plot has more holes than Florida has sinkholes. Others have already asked many of the questions that come to mind so I won't bother repeating them. I have many of my own but don't really see the point in asking. Why not just bring in Samuel Jackson and a bunch of snakes and call it Snakes on a Train? It would make just about as much sense as this train wreck.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I previously jokingly said that it would take less time to discuss what in the show _is_ believable, but the more I think about it, the only thing that I find believable is the socioeconomic division of the rich and not so rich and poor (who are stow-aways, and that is not believable, as why were they allowed to stay on the train)

What else does anyone here find believable?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> I previously jokingly said that it would take less time to discuss what in the show _is_ believable, but the more I think about it, the only thing that I find believable is the socioeconomic division of the rich and not so rich and poor (who are stow-aways, and that is not believable, as why were they allowed to stay on the train)


And of course that's the whole point..the train is an allegory for class divisions in modern society (originally, modern European society, although the movie adaptation was made by a South Korean and the TV show by Americans).


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Is that the only thing you also find believable?
Seriously, I can’t think of anything else. Even keeping the stowaways on board is not believable - and that’s the plot driver on the show.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> And appropriately Jeff the Doorman, aka Lead Brakeman Roche, welcomes Layton into the sunlight of the 3rd class mess hall.


Mike O'Malley is in everything! Whatever he's paying his agent, it's not enough.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> Is that the only thing you also find believable?
> Seriously, I can't think of anything else. Even keeping the stowaways on board is not believable - and that's the plot driver on the show.


Keeping a class on board to do work that the other classes wouldn't do is not believable?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cbrrider said:


> Keeping a class on board to do work that the other classes wouldn't do is not believable?


A class of people who are alien to the intended purpose of the train? And who are there illegally?


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> A class of people who are alien to the intended purpose of the train? And who are there illegally?


Just like illegal immigrants in 'merica?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cbrrider said:


> Just like illegal immigrants in 'merica?


*gasp*

Why, I never thought of that!


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> *gasp*
> 
> Why, I never thought of that!


Lol.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

You would have thought they would arrange for that in advance.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Sentencing punishment,


Spoiler



arm removal. Stick arm outside, it freezes, then cut/break it off. If it is as cold as Jennifer Connelly says, that's somewhat factual. (just takes way longer to freeze)


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

justen_m said:


> Sentencing punishment,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I was expecting to see that in the pilot episode. But I have to believe it will be early in the the second one.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

cbrrider said:


> Keeping a class on board to do work that the other classes wouldn't do is not believable?


That would be believable, so why are they kept in the tail doing nothing?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

justen_m said:


> Sentencing punishment,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


ok, that's believable.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

dwatt said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



it didn't take long to freeze solid in The Day After Tomorrow.


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## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> That would be believable, so why are they kept in the tail doing nothing?


They live in the tail. The kid mentions wanting to be an apprentice in one of the scenes, so they must have jobs. Old Ivan was a piano tuner.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Also mentioned in the show is that they don’t help out, and anyone who does leave is a “Traitor or the tail”. 
I say, just pull the pin on the tail


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> Also mentioned in the show is that they don't help out, and anyone who does leave is a "Traitor or the tail".
> I say, just pull the pin on the tail


There must have been an original purpose for the tail cars whether it be storage or possible future expansion. I assume the tallies just took it over and made its purpose their own. And if you pull the pin those tail cars won't be in the front and in the way on the next loop. Could make for an interesting experiment to rearrange the social classes.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

They could pull into the next switch then pull the pin (or I guess having switches on a track would be too believable)

I guess they wouldn’t just pull the pin, that would be cruel, let’s just put them in a drawer or chop off their arms until they submit


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> They could pull into the next switch then pull the pin (or I guess having switches on a track would be too believable)
> 
> I guess they wouldn't just pull the pin, that would be cruel, let's just put them in a drawer or chop off their arms until they submit


For a train that is traveling that fast and never stops and is about 12 miles long assuming a 65-ft length of car I would find it unbelievable if they had them pull into a switch and cut loose cars.


----------



## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

I’d curious to read Josh Friedman’s original script (that got tossed along with Friedman himself).


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

dwatt said:


> For a train that is traveling that fast and never stops and is about 12 miles long assuming a 65-ft length of car I would find it unbelievable if they had them pull into a switch and cut loose cars.


That would be just 1 more unbelievable item in a long list of unbelievable items


----------



## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> Also mentioned in the show is that they don't help out, and anyone who does leave is a "Traitor or the tail".
> I say, just pull the pin on the tail


Who knows. Maybe they'll explain it more in the coming episodes. Pulling the pin is one way to get the tailies to the front of the train ... a year from pulling the pin, that is.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Hopefully people are padding for episode 2. 

Or manually selecting an airing on a different day


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I caught it just in time and took a chance on a manual recording starting at the bottom of the hour, which looks correct. It should work for a manual 9:30/8:30 ET/CT recording as well.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

yup... the golf ran right at 30 minutes over...


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Well, we got an amputation.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

I lost part of Episode 2 due to the golf running over.
I wonder if this will be a regular thing. Lucky I tried to watch it right away and noticed, and lucky that it's airing again tonight. Manual recording scheduled.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I lost part of Episode 2 due to the golf running over.
> I wonder if this will be a regular thing. Lucky I tried to watch it right away and noticed, and lucky that it's airing again tonight. Manual recording scheduled.


As long as they continue to air them back to back, you can just flip your season pass to "Everything". That way, the spillover from the first recording will be in the second one.

(Or at least that's what I did, entirely by accident.  )


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

My first manual recording got ruined by a TiVo emergency weather alert so I had to manually record the second one as well - that's the keeper.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

I will have to wait until Tuesday since I didn't catch the second airing tonight. Why was it on at 8pm? Isn't its usual start time 9pm?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

kdmorse said:


> As long as they continue to air them back to back, you can just flip your season pass to "Everything". That way, the spillover from the first recording will be in the second one.
> 
> (Or at least that's what I did, entirely by accident.  )


Good idea. Done.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

dwatt said:


> I will have to wait until Tuesday since I didn't catch the second airing tonight. Why was it on at 8pm? Isn't its usual start time 9pm?


It aired at 5 PM and 9 PM here in the Pacific time zone


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> It aired at 5 PM and 9 PM here in the Pacific time zone


Eastern it aired at 8pm and directly following at 9pm. Guardians of the Galaxy 1 or 2 was on at 10pm.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Damn! The golf thing totally caught me off guard. Is there any way to stream it, or will I have to wait until it re-airs on Tuesday?


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Not a good sign when all the discussion is about TNT screwing us over, and not the show itself...

There's no sports, no football, it's not on CBS, and STILL we can't watch it without padding. Jeez, this is why I stopped watching CBS on Sunday nights. In my time zone (maybe everywhere?), both showings were messed up. The second one started 30 minutes late also.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

gweempose said:


> Damn! The golf thing totally caught me off guard. Is there any way to stream it, or will I have to wait until it re-airs on Tuesday?


You can always watch the first half now and then finish up with the second on tuesday.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

gweempose said:


> Damn! The golf thing totally caught me off guard. Is there any way to stream it, or will I have to wait until it re-airs on Tuesday?


Both episodes are streamable On-Demand using the Xfinity app and the TNT app. No-skip commercials - bonus.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Man... that's gotta suck to lose your beef supply.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

The 9 PM showing was also delayed by 30 minutes. Neither TiVo nor Gracenote get updated for something like this, so both DVRs here failed me. Let's see what happens Tuesday.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I have a 4 tuner bolt, Sunday is a busy day, Snowpiercer is last in my 1Pass, so I don’t get the 1st showing


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I lost part of Episode 2 due to the golf running over.
> I wonder if this will be a regular thing. Lucky I tried to watch it right away and noticed, and lucky that it's airing again tonight. Manual recording scheduled.





astrohip said:


> Not a good sign when all the discussion is about TNT screwing us over, and not the show itself...
> 
> There's no sports, no football, it's not on CBS, and STILL we can't watch it without padding. Jeez, this is why I stopped watching CBS on Sunday nights. In my time zone (maybe everywhere?), both showings were messed up. The second one started 30 minutes late also.


Ah...the joys of streaming. Never an issue like this with YTTV. (and I still have a TiVo BTW...)


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

jsmeeker said:


> Man... that's gotta suck to lose your beef supply.


decided to stream 
1,001 cars, and only one Cattle Car?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> decided to stream
> 1,001 cars, and only one Cattle Car?


Well, the whole Tail is cattle cars...


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Watched the movie (Netflix) over the weekend and e1 on iTunes (free) and e2 on the TNT app. 

I've seen the movie back-in-the-day, but it was like watching it for the 1st time. Chris Evans is unrecognizable in the first half. Once he takes off the hat I recognized him. I get the same thing BTW as I'm bald..LOL! I enjoyed the movie. And agree...just suspend disbelief people...you'll be better off.

I'm totally in on the series. I like the lead and the premise. Also could not place the guy in charge of security 'til he removed his hat...just kidding...I used google...Mike O'Malley??!! I remember when NBC promoted his show to death only to be cancelled after two episodes!

Anyways, I'm looking forward to the day the woman security gets hers! She's a real a-hole! I like Jennifer Connelly, but not in this. Not the right fit IMO. Shoulda been Allison Wright. She was awesome on The Americans.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

It looks to me like the woman security guard (if we’re talking about the same one, short blond hair) it is becoming more sympathetic to the tailies in e2.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

The series is on Netflix-Canada. Is it worth a watch or should I just continue my Lost re-watch?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

wprager said:


> The series is on Netflix-Canada. Is it worth a watch or should I just continue my Lost re-watch?


So far, so good from my point of view.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

justen_m said:


> I read library copies too. My library also has the DVD and Blu-ray. All checked out, but not a long waiting list. However, after the SAH order 3/25, the library extended all due dates to 6/17 and advised people to hold onto their materials until the order is lifted. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie. Too bad TNT isn't airing the movie.


The movies is on Netflix.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Skipping to the end since I have not seen the first episode...the second one got trampled by stupid golf fake game. Where can I catch it when I get to watching later this week? It does not seem to be showing again?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

E1 tonight @ 10:30
E2 tonight @ 11:35
Also on TNT streaming app


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> It looks to me like the woman security guard (if we're talking about the same one, short blond hair) it is becoming more sympathetic to the tailies in e2.


It's not the same one; the blond is an ex-cop or ex security (I believe). The one we've been talking about was in The Americans.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> It's not the same one; the blond is an ex-cop or ex security (I believe). The one we've been talking about was in The Americans.


Ah...she's not a security guard, hence the confusion.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Tony_T said:


> E1 tonight @ 10:30
> E2 tonight @ 11:35
> Also on TNT streaming app


Those did not show on my DIRECTV DVR search.

Off to find the TNT streaming app!

edit: Now I am seeing more episodes listed in the DIRECTV app. I wonder if the DVR had a glitch with the listings, when I asked for "All Showings".


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Episode 1 is free (commercial free too) on iTunes.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> It looks to me like the woman security guard (if we're talking about the same one, short blond hair) it is becoming more sympathetic to the tailies in e2.


Yes the one with the short hair who's apparently a "Tail Sucker" LOL


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I got E1. It is E2 that got clobbered by fake golf.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

eddyj said:


> I got E1. It is E2 that got clobbered by fake golf.


I hadn't watched E2 when I read your post. My recording starts with 30 minutes of golf. Ugh. So I'm recording it again Saturday night, 1005pm. That should be safe from golf. Maybe I'll watch the first three eps on Sunday night. (rewatch of 1, first viewing of 2 and 3).


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

I lost the second half of E2 twice on Sunday due to the realigned schedule. I then recorded E2 on Tuesday 11:35 PM Pacific. The arm scene was ruined by pixelation, then loss of audio, then loss of video. This was on Xfinity cable, recorded by two DVRs. Sigh. What is this, OTA?

That recording also cut off the last moments of the show. E2 will be recorded again this coming weekend, this time with padding added to this and all shows in the OnePass. But if E3 suffers from similar problems, I will give up and wait for this series to go on Netflix, or maybe just forget about it entirely. This is too much work, lol.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Played flawlessly on the TNT app


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Same here, Roku + TNT App


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I refer you to my previous post


----------



## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> This was on Xfinity cable, recorded by two DVRs. Sigh.


I also had a problem with the recording, but was able to watch it on Xfinity On Demand.


----------



## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Steveknj said:


> A Russian Nesting Train
> 
> I was trying to conjure up how long a 1001 car train might be. I figured it's got to be a couple of miles.


From the promo video, the front looks like it was vaguely based on the Zephyr streamliner - in which the standard cars are 72 feet long. This would be 72,072 feet or roughly 13 1/2 miles, not counting the power cars.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

E2 recorded again last night, and it included the last moments this time, probably thanks to padding. 

With all these distractions I didn't concentrate much, so I have no comments about the episode itself, lol.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)




----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

dwatt said:


> There must have been an original purpose for the tail cars whether it be storage or possible future expansion. I assume the tallies just took it over and made its purpose their own. And if you pull the pin those tail cars won't be in the front and in the way on the next loop. Could make for an interesting experiment to rearrange the social classes.


Halfway through e3 and dropping the tail has been mentioned twice (one suggested moving the tailies to 3rd class). 
...¾ way through, cutting the tail loose mentioned a 3rd time.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

I enjoyed episode 3, and not just because there were no scheduling problems with the recording this time, lol. Overall this is show excellent work. I've committed to a willing suspension of disbelief, and will continue to enjoy it.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I recorded both second episode broadcasts that were interrupted by the golf tournament so I'mm pretty sure that I completed this episode but after watching the beginning of ep 3, I must have missed something because I was confused. I still like the show.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> I recorded both second episode broadcasts that were interrupted by the golf tournament so I'mm pretty sure that I completed this episode but after watching the beginning of ep 3, I must have missed something because I was confused. I still like the show.


I've watched both Ep1 and Ep2 twice and am confused after watching Ep3 too.

Seems hard to pull off Thunderdome in a narrow train car.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm through all three episodes, and I am now finding myself playing on my tablet or reading the news on my phone while this is on. That's a sure sign I'm losing interest. May give it one more, but I find it fairly boring at this stage.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I like it. It's interesting, characters are engaging, enjoying the class drama. It's not A+, but it's entertaining to watch. 

I don't give much thought to the implausibility of the details. Sure, they're there. But it doesn't add anything to gnaw on the technicalities.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

I am curious about the perpetual motion machine that is their battery powered train. The made mention of needing enough power in the batteries to get up the mountain, assuming they will gain on the way down but how do they make up the losses. Even I have to plug in my Bolt and it has regen braking.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Since a perpetual motion machine is not possible, I’m going to guess (I’ve not seen any of the movies) that there is a plot twist in how it works.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Solar power?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Unobtainium?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Suspension of Disbeliefium.


----------



## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Since a perpetual motion machine is not possible, I'm going to guess (I've not seen any of the movies) that there is a plot twist in how it works.


Soylent Green.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I must have missed something because I was confused.





Beryl said:


> I've watched both Ep1 and Ep2 twice and am confused after watching Ep3 too.


I was confused by Ep 3 as well. Can someone please explain exactly what's going on. A quick summary of where the homicide investigation has lead so far would be much appreciated.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

pkscout said:


> Soylent Green.


The do have it but theirs is black not green and I am not sure they power the train with it.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I lost the second half of E2 twice on Sunday due to the realigned schedule. I then recorded E2 on Tuesday 11:35 PM Pacific. The arm scene was ruined by pixelation, then loss of audio, then loss of video. This was on Xfinity cable, recorded by two DVRs. Sigh. What is this, OTA?
> 
> That recording also cut off the last moments of the show. E2 will be recorded again this coming weekend, this time with padding added to this and all shows in the OnePass. But if E3 suffers from similar problems, I will give up and wait for this series to go on Netflix, or maybe just forget about it entirely. This is too much work, lol.


Can you still use a VPN service to get Netflix-Canada content or did they shut them all down?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

What is the point of the train moving? They have enough power to keep it warm and to keep it moving. Clearly they have enough to just keep it warm, no?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

wprager said:


> Can you still use a VPN service to get Netflix-Canada content or did they shut them all down?


I've never tried that, sorry. (I did manage to access a music streaming service that way for a while, but eventually they started figuring out where we really were via the credit card or PayPal payment account.)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> What is the point of the train moving? They have enough power to keep it warm and to keep it moving. Clearly they have enough to just keep it warm, no?


It's a metaphor.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I've never tried that, sorry. (I did manage to access a music streaming service that way for a while, but eventually they started figuring out where we really were via the credit card or PayPal payment account.)


Usually it's the other way around since the US content is about 3x what we get in Canada, but this is one of those rare times where Netflix-Canada has something not available in the US. A few years back I was actually using a free service (not a VPN but just a DNS server switcher). From what I understand it's still possible using a VPN but it's a game of whack-a-mole as they keep shutting them down and new ones keep popping up.

But like I said, this is all for going the other way. Given that almost nobody from the US ever tries to get Netflix-Canada, for all I know it may be unmonitored and easy to circumvent.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

wprager said:


> Usually it's the other way around since the US content is about 3x what we get in Canada, but this is one of those rare times where Netflix-Canada has something not available in the US. A few years back I was actually using a free service (not a VPN but just a DNS server switcher). From what I understand it's still possible using a VPN but it's a game of whack-a-mole as they keep shutting them down and new ones keep popping up.
> 
> But like I said, this is all for going the other way. Given that almost nobody from the US ever tries to get Netflix-Canada, for all I know it may be unmonitored and easy to circumvent.


Might be fun to try. A couple more scheduling or pixelation issues and I just might be motivated. But episode 3 recorded OK.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

wprager said:


> What is the point of the train moving? They have enough power to keep it warm and to keep it moving. Clearly they have enough to just keep it warm, no?


It's the other way around, the moving train generates power and warmth. When they have to slow down for any reason, they have to cut power and/or having rolling blackouts.

But it's really just a plot device. I doubt they'll ever explain the 'physics' behind it, because there aren't any.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I think I'll wait and see how the rest of the season turns out before deciding to continue watching. There's only so much post-apocalyptic dystopian drama I can manage during a pandemic. Chopping off arms as punishment and dismembered corpses in the freezer is a bit of a downer.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

kdmorse said:


> It's the other way around, the moving train generates power and warmth. When they have to slow down for any reason, they have to cut power and/or having rolling blackouts.
> 
> But it's really just a plot device. I doubt they'll ever explain the 'physics' behind it, because there aren't any.


There are also shots that make it look like it's also got some sort of maglev component in the tracks, so that adds to the mystery tech making it a perpetual engine.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gweempose said:


> I was confused by Ep 3 as well. Can someone please explain exactly what's going on...


I don't understand your confusion; can you be more specific? I thought it was a pretty straightforward episode.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I don't understand your confusion; can you be more specific? I thought it was a pretty straightforward episode.


I was going to say the same, I've watched all 3 episodes a week apart from each other and there's nothing I found overly confusing.
That being said, if one is only 1/2 paying attention and on a phone or tablet while watching, yeah, you'll obviously miss stuff.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I don't understand your confusion; can you be more specific? I thought it was a pretty straightforward episode.





dianebrat said:


> I was going to say the same, I've watched all 3 episodes a week apart from each other and there's nothing I found overly confusing.
> That being said, if one is only 1/2 paying attention and on a phone or tablet while watching, yeah, you'll obviously miss stuff.


It's possible I just wasn't paying close enough attention. Perhaps I should go back and rewatch it from the beginning.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Here's a couple of recaps...

Snowpiercer Recap: Pulling No Punches - Has Layton Cracked the Case?

Snowpiercer finds its footing in "Access Is Power"


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Did anyone watch Episode 4? Some pretty interesting developments I didn't exactly see coming.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Did anyone watch Episode 4? Some pretty interesting developments I didn't exactly see coming.


Yeah, I'd say. I was afraid the show was going to drag the murder investigation out the entire season. I didn't expect it to wrap up so quickly, although there isn't a whole lot of evidence against LJ. Easy enough to explain away her reaction as anger/grief.

I thought maybe Andre would go to Melanie and ask her how "Mr Wilford" wanted to proceed, seeing as the prime suspect was dead, and they could cover things up and protect LJ. I didn't see him outing LJ in front of everybody. Nor did I anticipate the ending, although I probably should have. Once Melanie realized Andre knew her secret, the outcome was inevitable.

I think Melanie already suspects what may happen next, and senses she may need an ally, hence her admonition to the Doctor to keep him safe, or undamaged.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm quite certain this is not all wrapped up with LJ.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> I'm quite certain this is not all wrapped up with LJ.


Indeed...Lori and Mossimo the parents don't seem to be the types to let their little darling go quietly.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

It was a good episode. 

Cavill’s reaction when Layton “told” her that LJ was the guilty one let me know she was aware that Wilford’s real identity was known. They had effective non-verbal communication.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

justen_m said:


> ..I didn't expect it to wrap up so quickly, *although there isn't a whole lot of evidence against LJ....*


You mean aside from her confession to Layton?


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> You mean aside from her confession to Layton?


What'll have more weight among the other First Class? The word of a fellow First Class or a Tailie? The confession is useless. Her going all stabby on Layton can be easily explained away.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

justen_m said:


> What'll have more weight among the other First Class? The word of a fellow First Class or a Tailie? The confession is useless. Her going all stabby on Layton can be easily explained away.


Keep thinking that...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

The “confession”, and without reason (or if there was one, I missed it) made no sense to me. Why would she confess? And the offer to provide him with blueprints, guns, made less sense (how would she get them?) And, she’s now in custody, and there will be (should be) a trial, so they put the detective she confessed to in a drawer?

The perpetual motion train seems more believable compared to this.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think she just wants chaos, and thought she could win him over by confessing.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

As she said, Layton knows too much, no way he goes back.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Layton figured out in a couple of days what a train load of dummies couldn't in seven years?

My guess is that LJ's parents will pull some rabbit out of their hat to save her. They backed down quickly when Melanie was fake talking with Mr. Wilford so I doubt that they secretly know Melanie's secret and can blackmail her with that.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I know she “confessed” to the detective (who is now in a drawer), but did she confess to the others? (I don’t remember). 
Anyway, she can easily recant her confession. The bodyguard that she instructed to do the killing is dead, and I don’t think that there is any evidence of her involvement — Case Dismissed.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> I know she "confessed" to the detective (who is now in a drawer), but did she confess to the others? (I don't remember).
> Anyway, she can easily recant her confession. The bodyguard that she instructed to do the killing is dead, and I don't think that there is any evidence of her involvement - Case Dismissed.


But this isn't the American justice system. I suspect Melanie knowing she's guilty is all the evidence they really need...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

If Melanie wanted to find the killer to “calm” the first class passengers (wasn’t this the reason?), and the bodyguard who actually did the killing was caught and is now dead, then how is prosecuting the girl (who gave the order to kill) without any evidence going to help keep things calm?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> If Melanie wanted to find the killer to "calm" the first class passengers (wasn't this the reason?), and the bodyguard who actually did the killing was caught and is now dead, then how is prosecuting the girl (who gave the order to kill) without any evidence going to help keep things calm?


I think she feels bad about her earlier experience with letting the guilty go free...and that time, she didn't realize she was doing it. Letting the guilty go free on purpose might be a bridge too far for her.

If all she wanted to do was calm 1st Class, she could have slabbed the first suspect she came across.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

They didn't mess around with the bodyguard. They killed the crap out of him.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

justen_m said:


> I think Melanie already suspects what may happen next, and senses she may need an ally, hence her admonition to the Doctor to keep him safe, or undamaged.


I can't see her _planning _to make an ally out of someone she put in a drawer. I think the admonition indicates she feels guilty about putting him in a drawer.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

LA Times: Daveed Diggs tackles murder, class division and possible revolution in 'Snowpiercer'


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I certainly hope he's not in the drawer very long; he's the main reason I'm watching.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Melanie will probably need to take him out to support the confession.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm glad we are finally getting some pretty good discussions about the show. I think this show is a good example of why you shouldn't bail on a show after one episode or because all all your questions weren't answered in the first episode.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> I certainly hope he's not in the drawer very long; he's the main reason I'm watching.


I'm assuming just one episode. I'm 50/50 as to whether there's a time jump involved before he's brought out.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Based on that article I posted above, Layton won't be gone for long because the actor who plays him is a star and is out there promoting the series.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I assume there's going to be big trouble in the tail section now that they know that Layton is missing. But then again, most of the main rabble rousers have been put in the drawers.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I assume there's going to be big trouble in the tail section now that they know that Layton is missing. But then again, most of the main rabble rousers have been put in the drawers.


I accidentally saw the finale episode name when I was looking it up on IMDB.


Spoiler



994 Cars Long


So that says something to me


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Wow that really is a spoiler!


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I've had to be careful about going to Wikipedia to get basic information on characters. There seems to be quite a bit of information on characters that haven't even been introduced yet. Episode titles can be spoilery too, as mentioned (I have NOT looked at that yet).. But those can be hard to avoid when using a TiVo because you'll probably see it when you pull up the episode to play.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

gossamer88 said:


> Wow that really is a spoiler!


Thanks for underscoring it as I won't peek. Too bad they don't think about that when titling episodes.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Yeah GoT did the same when Oberyn was going to fight The Mountain. For non-readers who saw that title (The Mountain and the Viper) on IMDB certainly got spoiled.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Is it just me or does Till (Layton's blonde partner) look like a younger Beth Riesgraf (Parker from Leverage)?


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Craigbob said:


> Is it just me or does Till (Layton's blonde partner) look like a younger Beth Riesgraf (Parker from Leverage)?


I think so too.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Mr. Willford is sure quick the commutations. 

Also, what was LJ's sentence? Did they ever say? I assume it should have been The Drawers.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

jsmeeker said:


> Mr. Willford is sure quick the commutations.
> 
> Also, what was LJ's sentence? Did they ever say? I assume it should have been The Drawers.


It was going to be a drawer. Earlier LJ fearfully stated that she "didn't deserve" the Drawers.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

speaking of the The Drawers, I think Leyton is gonna have a rough time with being removed from there without the proper attention.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> speaking of the The Drawers, I think Leyton is gonna have a rough time with being removed from there without the proper attention.


At least he wasn't in for long...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Layton is the hero. He'll be alternately more incapacitated and healthier as the story calls for it.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Strangely, I’m rooting for the psycho-chick. I loathe/like her but have nothing but disdain for her enabling parents. I’d like to see them both thrown off the train posthaste.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> Strangely, I'm rooting for the psycho-chick. I loathe/like her but have nothing but disdain for her enabling parents. I'd like to see them both thrown off the train posthaste.


Kind of ironic that it's their deeply-rooted sense of privilege that looks like it will spark the revolution that may finally end that privilege...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Beryl said:


> Strangely, I'm rooting for the psycho-chick. I loathe/like her but have nothing but disdain for her enabling parents. I'd like to see them both thrown off the train posthaste.


I was wondering how LJ was going to develop as a character. I didn't ever peg her has an actual murder though.. But clearly, there was something up with her.. She was certainly involved in something. Something big. Much more to come I am sure.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

LJ is unquestionably a sociopath and was clearly the instigator in the murders, getting her boyfriend to help her just as she was accused of doing.

Whatever she learned through torture she definitely is dangerous to Melanie and that's probably not a healthy place to be although she has more protection than Layton.

It sure didn't take Bess long to get into trouble after being promoted to 2nd class...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

madscientist said:


> It sure didn't take Bess long to get into trouble after being promoted to 2nd class...


We're five episodes in and I only remember three people's names - Layton, Melanie and LJ.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

There's been some online discussions of a scene in this episode where LJ removes her father's glass eyeball, puts it in her mouth, then pops it back in. Same eye she jabbed with a fork when she was younger. I think I would have remembered that scene, but I didn't see it. The linked article refers to "Netflix's Snowpiercer" so I'm guessing it is a British version of the show.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> There's been some online discussions of a scene in this episode where LJ removes her father's glass eyeball, puts it in her mouth, then pops it back in. Same eye she jabbed with a fork when she was younger. I think I would have remembered that scene, but I didn't see it. The linked article refers to "Netflix's Snowpiercer" so I'm guessing it is a British version of the show.


You must have missed it. It was there.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You must have missed it. It was there.


Yeah, that was creepy as s***. They definitely could have edited that out


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Wow...I even looked again this morning and didn't see it. How far in?

Gotta quit multitasking...


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Bierboy said:


> Wow...I even looked again this morning and didn't see it. How far in?
> 
> Gotta quit multitasking...


07:45 to 09:20 on my recording. I only cringed when he didn't wash and disinfect it afterwards...


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Yeah she even wiggles it around like an eyeball in her mouth. Super creepy. Agreed, I was watching specifically to see if he washed it after before putting it back in. It wasn't clear but it sure didn't look like he even wiped it with anything.

Gross.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

She didn't wipe it down before putting it in her mouth either. I wonder what the director's explanation for that scene is.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

It establishes her as a master manipulator with the ability to control others to get what she wants.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It establishes her as nasty, too.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

So she should call us MISS Jackson?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So she should call us MISS Jackson?


Only during panic at the disco.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Finally found it...don't know how I missed that.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Eye have no clue...


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Bierboy said:


> Finally found it...don't know how I missed that.


Do you have a depraved daughter and two glass eyes?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

That was one wild scene!!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Eye have no clue...


I _see_ what you did there.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Eye have no clue...


Check with Layton he might be able to help.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Snowpiercer Fun Fact:

Roche the brakeman and Lilah Folger, the rich mom, are brother and sister in real life. Mike and Kerry OMalley, from here in little old Nashua, NH.

While we've never met Mike or Kerry, we are very good friends with their parents, Tony and Maryanne.

Mike O'Malley - IMDb
Kerry O'Malley - IMDb


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

At her last bookIbook club meeting, I had my wife ask Maryanne to ask Mike, a real insider, the burning question:

Would a revolt from the tail of this 5 mile long train need to be staged single file thru every one of the 1000 cars? Or, are there bypass/travel lanes? 

Maryanne replied, it's only fantasy.  She added, Mike and Kerry very rarely worked in the same location at the same time, even when they seemed to be the same storyline/episode. They had a great time filming this show and made note of the very talented young girl playing Kerry's daughter.

I was hoping for more of a scoop, but was fun to ask.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm pretty sure I'm not a prude but I can't help wondering why this show thinks it needs sex scenes. It seems like it should almost be a family type show (with older children, of course) but then they throw in extended scenes of people doing the nasty seemingly to prove that they're serious directors. Other than that, I like this show more with every episode.

I was kind of p.o.'d that during the celebrations Boki pretended like he actually did something.

I watched with closed captions and was surprised that when Mr. Wilford was referenced in the third person it was capitalized as a god-like "He".


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

markp99 said:


> They had a great time filming this show and made note of the very talented young girl playing Kerry's daughter.


Annalise Basso, who's been around for quite a while (looks like she started acting when she was about 10 years old).


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

trainman said:


> Annalise Basso, who's been around for quite a while (looks like she started acting when she was about 10 years old).


Wow! She has a lot of screen credits for someone her age.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gweempose said:


> Wow! She has a lot of screen credits for someone her age.


Child actors who can actually, y'know, ACT, tend to be in pretty high demand...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

trainman said:


> Annalise Basso, who's been around for quite a while (looks like she started acting when she was about 10 years old).


She played Eden Hamby, the younger sister of the True Blood character Jessica Hamby, which was Deborah Ann Woll's breakout role.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Well, I guess Layton recovered more quickly than I was expecting..

Now, I am just waiting to see what comes next from LJ.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Well, I guess Layton recovered more quickly than I was expecting...


Not sure why you were expecting anything else. The only other person we've seen come out of the drawers had been in for years, not hours, and after all, he IS a star of the show...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm not really sure exactly what I was expecting..  He sure did bounce back quite quickly and nicely. But maybe there will be some "long term" effects ? More bad dreams/nightmares... Stuff like that.


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

That sure is a tall train. Lots and lots of headroom.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Howie said:


> That sure is a tall train. Lots and lots of headroom.


Plus a subway system!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I've never been in a train that had limited headroom. We travel Amtrak a lot, and I've been hopping trains regularly for 60 years.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But enough headroom to have a mezzanine level?


----------



## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But enough headroom to have a mezzanine level?


It's bigger on the inside.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But enough headroom to have a mezzanine level?


Superliners are two level. All long distance trains that travel west of Chicago are two level. Modified, I'm sure it would accommodate a mezzanine.

But, of course, this isn't reality...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

markp99 said:


> At her last bookIbook club meeting, I had my wife ask Maryanne to ask Mike, a real insider, the burning question:
> 
> Would a revolt from the tail of this 5 mile long train need to be staged single file thru every one of the 1000 cars? Or, are there bypass/travel lanes?
> 
> Maryanne replied, it's only fantasy.  ...


...or ".....it's only a TV show"


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

"The universe is indifferent." - Don Draper


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Melanie Cavil must DIE!

Just a totally unsubstantiated guess on my part with no evidence whatsoever but what are the odds that Mr. Wilford is in one of the drawers?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But I do kinda feel sorry for Melanie...not only does she have TWO revolutions coming at her from either side, but she doesn't have a clue about the one because of how she slapped down Ruth when she tried to warn her.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't even like Ruth but I hope she gets to punch Melanie in the face 4 or 5 times, hard.

Does this train only have three engineers (plus Miles)?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Does this train only have three engineers (plus Miles)?


That would seem to be the case, although I suspect by "engineer" they mean somebody with that specific job title, not actual engineers. I.e., those three are the ones who run the train; other engineers (the ones who do the actual engineering) have other job titles.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Did you all know Bess (Mickey Sumner) is Sting's daughter?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> Did you all know Bess (Mickey Sumner) is Sting's daughter?


I had no idea, but it makes sense given the last name. Sorta like Liberty Devitto's daughter on Chicago Med.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Actually I did not know her name until this story about a Dad's dying wish to have a painting he did of Sting be given to Sting. Mickey Sumner reached out to his daughter and got it done!


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

gossamer88 said:


> Actually I did not know her name until this story about a Dad's dying wish to have a painting he did of Sting be given to Sting. Mickey Sumner reached out to his daughter and got it done!


I did not know that Bess was Sting's daughter. I didn't know what other name Sting might have had. For all I knew his full name was Police Sting.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Howie said:


> I did not know that Bess was Sting's daughter. *I didn't know what other name Sting might have had.* For all I knew his full name was Police Sting.


Sting had a solo album called: Ten Summoner's Tales


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Don't look at IMDB for cast info unless you like major spoilers.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

wprager said:


> Don't look at IMDB for cast info unless you like major spoilers.


Duly noted. Thanks for the warning.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

We watched Daveed Diggs in Hamilton last night. Definitely wouldn't confuse his Snowpiercer character with his Marquis de Lafayette or his Thomas Jefferson. Well done on one and all.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Until I saw him do Hamilton on Some Good News I only knew him as the hippy brother on Blackish.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Hamilton is the reason he "blew up" per my stage actor cousin. Cousin told me about his athletic talents which I checked on wiki. 


> Diggs is an alumnus of Berkeley High School and Brown University, where he graduated in 2004 with a bachelor's degree[10] in theatre arts.[11] He was recruited by Brown for his track skills, and broke the Brown Bears' school record in the 110-meter hurdles as a sophomore with a time of 14.21 seconds.


I'm embarrassed and feel creepy for crushing on a guy who isn't even 40 years old!

Back to the last episode - I'm not a fan of Melanie but the mutineers are crazy to kill her as they need her skills. Better to control her instead.

(I'm now a Mickey Sumner fan.)


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Beryl said:


> Back to the last episode - I'm not a fan of Melanie but the mutineers are crazy to kill her as they need her skills. Better to control her instead.


We know that. I'm not entirely sure either the 1st class rebellion, nor the tail rebellion fully understand that.

Although she certainly didn't win any points in her favor this week either.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

kdmorse said:


> We know that. I'm not entirely sure either the 1st class rebellion, nor the tail rebellion fully understand that.
> 
> Although she certainly didn't win any points in her favor this week either.


For survival sake, you'd think they'd find out who has been keeping the train going for all of those years. But then, getting in 1st class didn't require intelligence.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I guess I really need to catch up. I think I'm one episode behind and not at all sure what Melanie has done to deserve all the hate.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

This was a good episode.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

So the guy who's been coughing the last couple episodes coughs into his fist then immediately shakes hands with a 3rd class guy?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

"She deceived us all, Ruth" - more like she's kept them all alive.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

wprager said:


> So the guy who's been coughing the last couple episodes coughs into his fist then immediately shakes hands with a 3rd class guy?


I think you meant to post this in the Covid thread... 

Agree, excellent episode.

Next week is the two hour season (series?) finale. Do we know anything about S2? Renewed yet?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Umm, are we sure this is art and not propaganda? "One Tail!" ... "No, One Train!". This is eerily similar to BLM vs. ALM. Except it's a Black guy saying it. And then the whole class struggle being rich vs. poor instead of being racially motivated. This is propaganda, isn't it? In just not clear weigh side is pushing it.

She Ruth saying "...and a murderer" is rich. 44 arms, was it? She really enjoyed her work. And Melanie only got as far as taking a pinkie, then threw up. The rest was self defense.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I think you meant to post this in the Covid thread...
> 
> Agree, excellent episode.
> 
> Next week is the two hour season (series?) finale. Do we know anything about S2? Renewed yet?


It was already renewed before the 1st season aired.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> It was already renewed before the 1st season aired.


:up:


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

According to IMDB (venture at your own peril) there is already a season 2. That's about all I can say at this point.

God, all I wanted to do was check out who played Josie.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bah! I can't stand it; and I know there are others like me who don't mind spoilers, so here goes:



Spoiler



An actor well known for getting killed in pretty much every show/movie he's been in will play a prominent role in S2 and looks like the S1 finale as well. *Very* prominent role.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Howie said:


> I did not know that Bess was Sting's daughter. I didn't know what other name Sting might have had. For all I knew his full name was Police Sting.


I never knew his real name either until this scene in Bee Movie ...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

wprager said:


> Bah! I can't stand it; and I know there are others like me who don't mind spoilers, so here goes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Beryl said:


> Hamilton is the reason he "blew up" per my stage actor cousin. Cousin told me about his athletic talents which I checked on wiki.
> 
> I'm embarrassed and feel creepy for crushing on a guy who isn't even 40 years old!
> 
> ...


I'd also suggest that Daveed Diggs fans check out Blindspotting which he wrote, produced, and starred in.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Brakeman Till was a lean, mean killing machine in this episode.

I've been wrong on my other predictions but I've got to get one right eventually. No way Melanie dies. There will be a train disaster which only she can fix.

Ruth doing the sign of the W with reference to Wilford was creepy. I think someone else did it this episode too. Maybe they've been doing it all along and I just noticed it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, they're definitely emphasizing the cult aspects of Mr Wilford more this episode than in the past, although it's always been there to some degree...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

One thing that surprised me was learning that Melanie actually killed Mr Wilford, supposedly (and I guess I believe her) for the good of the human race, back when the train first launched. I've always assumed that he died somewhere along the way, and she (and her minions in the Engine) simply maintained the fiction that he was still alive for the sake of continuity.

Which in some ways makes her a better person, but in some ways worse. Earlier, she implied that the system is the way it is because she was afraid to change it, but if she's been in charge since the beginning then this is the system she implemented, or at least allowed to be implemented, and not something that had already been functioning when she inherited it.

Interesting that this, then, is the second revolution on the train...


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

She made Wilford sound like a bozo, but why leave him on the track when she could put him in a drawer? I thought he was initially on board shaking hands.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I always assumed that he was in the drawers and I would but be surprised if that was still the case.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> I always assumed that he was in the drawers and I would but be surprised if that was still the case.


That's what I thought until this episode. But she really made it sound like he's dead and gone...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Melanie clearly said that she left Wilford off the train but did Ruth(?) say later in this episode that he was in a drawer?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Melanie clearly said that she left Wilford off the train but did Ruth(?) say later in this episode that he was in a drawer?


Not that I saw...


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Maybe he


Spoiler



was left on the track but got back on at the tail.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

series5orpremier said:


> Maybe he
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Is that a guess or a spoiler?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Just watched a YouTube review of the last episode and it mentioned information (potentially spoiler) from both the movie and the graphic novel. The reveal in the pilot that Melanie was acting as Wilford is a departure from the movie (and, I assume, from the graphic novels) so just because something happens in one of those sources does not mean it will happen in the show. Nevertheless, it's potential spoiler:



Spoiler



There is a second train and Wilford could be on it.



Back to non spoiler. Re-watching the pilot and my son asked why they didn't just decouple the train instead of putting up with periodic revolts. My quick explanation was that the track is a loop, however you'd think they could figure out how to detail the tail. They also don't appear to have capital punishment (corporal, sure) so just killing all the tailies would go against whatever rules given their society. The last reason would be that the train was engineered to have 1001 cars, so you have to assume that it holds *some* purpose. However given that there are 400 people now living there (and seemingly ripping things apart to make weapons) whatever purpose it used to have is probably not being fulfilled.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Im sorry but didnt I see Wilford in the Snowpiercer movie? Is that a spoiler?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mattyro7878 said:


> I'm sorry but didn't I see Wilford in the Snowpiercer movie? Is that a spoiler?


The movie is not the show. They're both based on the same source material, but there is no other connection between them.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

wprager said:


> Is that a guess or a spoiler?


Speculating a possibility re/the subject of previous posts. I have no idea what the writers did.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

mattyro7878 said:


> Im sorry but didnt I see Wilford in the Snowpiercer movie? Is that a spoiler?


Because Wilford is in movie (Ed Harris) and in the pilot of the TV show it's revealed that Melanie is acting as Wilford we know that the show is not keeping to the movie/graphic novel as canon. So all bets are off. That said, we should still be careful about posting things which are seen in the other source material (in the case of Wilford they are essentially opposites, so posting what was seen in the movie is not a spoiler). But the other possibility which I posted (in spoiler tags) is very possibly a spoiler. Now, if I came up with that idea on my own it would be just speculation (so not spoiler), but I did not, so I felt better safe than sorry.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> I guess I really need to catch up. I think I'm one episode behind and _*not at all sure what Melanie has done to deserve all the hate*_.


You're more than one episode behind then...


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> You're more than one episode behind then...


I'm caught up now. She froze off a *pinkie* then promptly three up. She used Miles as a veiled threat. Did I miss anything else? Given that humanity may be down to 400 people in deep freeze if the train fails I think drastic actions are expected.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Don't forget, she's an MIT engineering grad, not someone trained in crisis management or human relations.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

wprager said:


> I'm caught up now. She froze off a *pinkie* then promptly three up. She used Miles as a veiled threat. Did I miss anything else? Given that humanity may be down to 400 people in deep freeze if the train fails I think drastic actions are expected.


Also, now that you know that she 100% responsible for all of the other bad things (drawers, freezing off arms, horrific treatment in the Tail,...)


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Maybe Wilford's in a drawer, but Melanie thought it was better to say she left him to die -- to avoid his revival.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

wprager said:


> I guess I really need to catch up. I think I'm one episode behind and not at all sure what Melanie has done to deserve all the hate.


I would say I don't know what Melanie did to deserve all the hate _from 1st class_ at the beginning of the ep. They jump right to saying they'll execute her for what? Lying to them? She kept the train running. First class is still very privileged.

Yeah, _we_ know all the bad stuff she's done. Layton and the tail knows. But nothing bad was directed at First and First was fine with those actions when they thought they came from Wilford.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> I would say I don't know what Melanie did to deserve all the hate _from 1st class_ at the beginning of the ep. They jump right to saying they'll execute her for what? Lying to them? She kept the train running. First class is still very privileged.
> 
> Yeah, _we_ know all the bad stuff she's done. Layton and the tail knows. But nothing bad was directed at First and First was fine with those actions when they thought they came from Wilford.


I don't think they were fine with it...I think they endured it, because they thought it was coming from Wilford (the only person on the train who they considered to be above them) rather than Melanie (who is lower-class, and thus not worthy to tell them what to do). Once they knew that it was Melanie who was ruling them, the situation became unbearable.


----------



## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

tlc said:


> I would say I don't know what Melanie did to deserve all the hate _from 1st class_ at the beginning of the ep. They jump right to saying they'll execute her for what? Lying to them? She kept the train running. First class is still very privileged.


The Karens in first class went ballistic because they wanted to speak with the manager, but she was unavailable while saving the train. This is a cardinal sin among Karens and thus, the death penalty is justified.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Beryl said:


> Also, now that you know that she 100% responsible for all of the other bad things (drawers, freezing off arms, horrific treatment in the Tail,...)


We don't really know, though, if the rules were not already spelled out. She didn't train the brakemen or the guards or anything else. As for the drawers, the jury is still out. Do we know who came up with the idea of no capital punishment? I would surmise the drawers car(s) were in the original design of the train, so that would have been Wilford's idea (or at least approved by him); its current use to select and preserve 400 people in case of catastrophe may be Mel's idea or not.

Or maybe I've just been giving her the "benefit of the doubt" ever since The Rocketeer.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

wprager said:


> Or maybe I've just been giving her the "benefit of the doubt" ever since The Rocketeer.


I've had a crush on her ever since Labyrinth.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

wprager said:


> We don't really know, though, if the rules were not already spelled out. She didn't train the brakemen or the guards or anything else. As for the drawers, the jury is still out. Do we know who came up with the idea of no capital punishment? I would surmise the drawers car(s) were in the original design of the train, so that would have been Wilford's idea (or at least approved by him); its current use to select and preserve 400 people in case of catastrophe may be Mel's idea or not.
> 
> Or maybe I've just been giving her the "benefit of the doubt" ever since The Rocketeer.


In the most recent episode she stated that Wilford was essentially a sales guy that wanted to live the high life with the whores for as long as he could. I would take that to mean the drawers and the 400 person ark that they are were her idea and execution. You should really look into getting the graphic novels from the library. All three versions (books, movie and TV show) are different and only similar adjacent.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gweempose said:


> I've had a crush on her ever since Labyrinth.


For me, it started with Dark City.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> For me, it started with Dark City.


One of my favorite movies!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

We watched the move a month ago or so. Maybe it was because we already knew that Melanie was Wilford in the TV show when we watched it, but I seem to recall Ed Harris's character saying that he wasn't the original Wilford either, when he was trying to pass the mantle to Chris Evans. Maybe I imagined it.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I thought new episodes come out Sunday. I'm watching on Netflix (Canada) and I guessi expected it to be steady available. Are they only going to release it at 9?


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Well that ending was nice but somewhat predictable.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Was last nights episode the season fatally?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

LoREvanescence said:


> Was last nights episode the season fatally?


I assume you mean finale, and the answer is yes.

Based on the fact that they showed previews for season 2 at the end, I can only assume that it's already in the can. I'm guessing they filmed both seasons simultaneously.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

gweempose said:


> I assume you mean finale, and the answer is yes.


Yes, and thanks for confirming. Interesting autocorrect

I have been watching this show via Hulu the day after, so I I haven't seen any promo's saying that this was the season final. I just had noticed there were 2 episodes.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I think it's funny how LJ was bored and wanted so badly to upset the status quo, but now she is seriously regretting that decision. Be careful what you wish for.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

So I'm confused. The IMDB casting spoiler I mentioned earlier was:


Spoiler



that Sean Bean is in 11 episodes between seasons 1 and 2. So I was expecting to see him in the finale. Did I miss an earlier episode on which he had a flashback cameo?


.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

LJ didn't know how to peel an egg? Ossweiler could have *so* much fun with her.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Interesting twist that the woman coming from the second train was Melanie's daughter. Other than that, yeah, it went as I expected. I'm in for S2


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Interesting twist that the woman coming from the second train was Melanie's daughter. Other than that, yeah, it went as I expected. I'm in for S2


I expected an expedition into the frozen remains of a city to look for the source of the music to be the next plot point, I didn't expect a hungry maintenance train. But the hungry maintenance train likely brings exactly the plot points I expected to find in a frozen city...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I was half expecting to see the welcoming party to be greeted with a hail of bullets when the door opened. But I guess Ruth is too central to the story. Oh, well.

Any guesses why we are seeing Mel Jr instead of Wilford? Like mother like daughter?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gweempose said:


> Based on the fact that they showed previews for season 2 at the end, I can only assume that it's already in the can. I'm guessing they filmed both seasons simultaneously.


Actually, the only new scene there was the one with that one guy. Everything else was just shots from the first season.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Based on the fact that they showed previews for season 2 at the end, I can only assume that it's already in the can. I'm guessing they filmed both seasons simultaneously.


They were about 8-9 days from completing shooting for S2 when they had to shut down.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

wprager said:


> So I'm confused. The IMDB casting spoiler I mentioned earlier was:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



He was shown for all of 2 seconds in a teaser for next season. So I would assume that he will be in all 10 episodes of season 2. This is a good thing because if they had introduced him any earlier in the season then they would have had to kill him off before the end of season one. Sometimes I think he has that written into his contract somewhere.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

dwatt said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> He was shown for all of 2 seconds a teaser for next season. So I would assume that he will be in all 10 episodes of season 2.This is a good thing because if they had introduced him any earlier in the season then they would have had to kill him off before the end of season one. Sometimes it think he has that written into his contract somewhere.


Ah, that explains it. I didn't watch the trailer.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

astrohip said:


> They were about 8-9 days from completing shooting for S2 when they had to shut down.


Oh damn, hope they could cobble it together soon and wrap it up!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Why did Latham leave the tailies? Couldn’t he just moved them up a car with him?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Why did Latham leave the tailies? Couldn't he just moved them up a car with him?


They were chained into place.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Ruth is nuts.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They were chained into place.


I know, but didn't Melanie give him the key that opens "everything"


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> I know, but didn't Melanie give him the key that opens "everything"


It probably opens every electronic door but not mechanical padlocks.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> Why did Latham leave the tailies? Couldn't he just moved them up a car with him?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> They were chained into place.


What else was in that car other than the prisoners? Could it have been possible to release the next coupling of the next car back? In any case, the whole lets uncouple cars thing made no sense to me. It would never work like that in real life. The second the train comes apart it would have been placed in emergency and the breaks would have been applied stopping the train. It wouldn't continue to coast like it did. One can only assume that Snowpiercer does not have air breaks I guess.



cheesesteak said:


> Ruth is nuts.


Tell me about it, she went totally loony in the final episode.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LoREvanescence said:


> What else was in that car other than the prisoners? Could it have been possible to release the next coupling of the next car back? In any case, the whole lets uncouple cars thing made no sense to me. It would never work like that in real life. The second the train comes apart it would have been placed in emergency and the breaks would have been applied stopping the train. It wouldn't continue to coast like it did. One can only assume that Snowpiercer does not have air breaks I guess.


Except this train couldn't have been designed that way, because if it slows down too much it dies.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I got the feeling that this kind of decoupling-recoupling move was planned for. Maybe not for this specific reason, but they had the side track and switches controlled from the train for a reason.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> I got the feeling that this kind of decoupling-recoupling move was planned for. Maybe not for this specific reason, but they had the side track and switches controlled from the train for a reason.


And I suppose the math of when to make their various moves would have been thrown off if they'd changed the number of cars that were being separated...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I suppose the math of when to make their various moves would have been thrown off if they'd changed the number of cars that were being separated...


Nah. There were a million and one ways to McGyver the chains, re-run the formulas or even justejust There is only one reason why those people had to die.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> Nah. There were a million and one ways to McGyver the chains, re-run the formulas or even justejust There is only one reason why those people had to die.


Well, sure, but that's true of everything that's ever happened in any story, ever. The question is, does it makes sense within the context of the story? And while they didn't explain it, it's not hard to figure out ways in which this makes sense.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Season 2 trailer...Netflix!


Spoiler


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

That 994 car train stopped _really_ fast. 
Melanie should have been left behind over 10 miles when Snowpiercer finally came to a halt. (...but then, not much in the show is believable, though the story did get better as it progressed)


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, sure, but that's true of everything that's ever happened in any story, ever. The question is, does it makes sense within the context of the story? And while they didn't explain it, it's not hard to figure out ways in which this makes sense.


Not gonna lie. I'm still not over Charlie (Lost). Not that was killed off, but how incredibly stupid they made it, breaking the laws of Physics add common sense.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

gossamer88 said:


> Season 2 trailer...Netflix!
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Is it moving to Netflix?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

My guess is that we’ll find out next season that Wilfred and Melanie are/were married it’s their daughter.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

LoREvanescence said:


> Is it moving to Netflix?


"The series debuted on TNT in the United States in the spring of 2020, while Netflix began to air the series globally outside of the United States and China. Huanxi Media Group is set to broadcast the first two seasons exclusively in China." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sno...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I knew I was going to like this show, so I saved it up and watched 4 eps 1 night and 6 eps Monday night

Loved it! Obviously some of the production quality outside the train was so-so but was fine with that


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Tony_T said:


> My guess is that we'll find out next season that Wilfred and Melanie are/were married it's their daughter.


Ew. But Alexandra's surname is not Wilford, so probably not.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

LoREvanescence said:


> Is it moving to Netflix?


Sure looks that way.
EDIT: Just realized that is a Netflix UK & Ireland YouTube channel...apologies!


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

LoREvanescence said:


> Is it moving to Netflix?


It's playing on Netflix in Canada, so I assume other countries (where TNT doesn't reach) as well.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It seemed odd to me that none of the first class mutineers witnessed Melanie's execution or checked in immediately afterwards to make sure it actually happened. 

How far was Melanie expecting to walk on top of the speeding 1,001 car long train?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

She also should have been tethered but then again we would not have gotten that ending shot.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> How far was Melanie expecting to walk on top of the speeding 1,001 car long train?


They seemed to be able to get from the tail to the front very quickly. I mean how long should it really take to go 1000 train cars!!! If it takes 1 min a car, that's 16 hours, even 30 sec a car is 8 hours!!!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> They seemed to be able to get from the tail to the front very quickly. I mean how long should it really take to go 1000 train cars!!! If it takes 1 min a car, that's 16 hours, even 30 sec a car is 8 hours!!!


Every train car is a mini-Tardis anyway, which affects transiting them as well.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Amtrak passenger cars are about 85 feet long -- I've been on trains where I was five cars away from the dining car, and even _that_ seemed like it took forever for three round-trips a day.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Snowpiercer is like LA. In 24.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

You guys are forgetting the little monorail track that runs underneath the cars. And also, this is fantasy.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

cheesesteak said:


> It seemed odd to me that none of the first class mutineers witnessed Melanie's execution or checked in immediately afterwards to make sure it actually happened.


They were apparently leaving only the executioner in there each time. The administrator was having a tough enough time getting through all that already: her hands were shaking at the end of that scene, when some confusion about who was next delayed them from going back and seeing Melanie and the executioner were gone. That confusion resulted from a missing name on the list of the condemned. If I was writing this, I'd say Javi had somehow managed to insert that problem to slow them down.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> They were apparently leaving only the executioner in there each time. The administrator was having a tough enough time getting through all that already: her hands were shaking at the end of that scene, when some confusion about who was next delayed them from going back and seeing Melanie and the executioner were gone. That confusion resulted from a missing name on the list of the condemned. If I was writing this, I'd say Javi had somehow managed to insert that problem to slow them down.


Or the administrator was in on it same as the school teacher.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

wprager said:


> Nah. There were a million and one ways to McGyver the chains, re-run the formulas or even justejust There is only one reason why those people had to die.


Who says they are dead? Did you see them die?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

cheesesteak said:


> It seemed odd to me that none of the first class mutineers witnessed Melanie's execution or checked in immediately afterwards to make sure it actually happened.
> 
> How far was Melanie expecting to walk on top of the speeding 1,001 car long train?


994


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

dwatt said:


> Who says they are dead? Did you see them die?


True.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

dwatt said:


> Who says they are dead? Did you see them die?


I was thinking Wilfred May have coupled them to his train.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Tony_T said:


> I was thinking Wilfred May have coupled them to his train.


Wilford.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> I was thinking Wilfred May have coupled them to his train.


Me too and and easy possibility for the writers.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Wilford.


Correct. Wilfred is Frodo Baggins all grown up.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

dwatt said:


> Correct. Wilfred is Frodo Baggins all grown up.


Hah! Funny. Had to Google that. "'Wilfred'...is a semi-dark comedy in which Frodo Baggins frequently shares a bong with a large Australian man wearing a dog suit." - NY Times review: Elijah Wood in 'Wilfred' on FX


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Hah! Funny. Had to Google that. "'Wilfred'...is a semi-dark comedy in which Frodo Baggins frequently shares a bong with a large Australian man wearing a dog suit." - NY Times review: Two Men Hang Out on a Couch. But One Appears to Be a Dog.


Didn't watch all of it but the little bit I did watch was absolutely bizarre but enjoyable.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

dwatt said:


> Correct. Wilfred is Frodo Baggins all grown up.


Ryan. Janson Gann is Wilford Wilfred.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> Ryan. Janson Gann is Wilford Wilfred.


Technically correct but pokemon_dad caught the intention behind my post.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Tony_T said:


> I was thinking Wilfred May have coupled them to his train.


Next season they will align themselves with Wilford.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

dwatt said:


> Technically correct but pokemon_dad caught the intention behind my post.


One of my favorite shows. The AU original (also with Gann as Wilfred) was also good, but the US version was much better.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Family said:


> Next season they will align themselves with Wilford.


I wonder if this will be like The Walking Dead where every season another baddie will emerge.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I thought it was a good summer show. I think Melanie did a lot of F#&ed up things but in the end, she's thinking long term. She said the drawers were a "life raft" (I think that's the term she used) because supplies/food is scarce and eventually people will be starving maybe years from this point and I think she intends to use the drawers to store people and keep them asleep so they burn less calories so they can keep more people alive longer. Using the tail people is just a way to keep it secret from everyone.


Beryl said:


> I wonder if this will be like The Walking Dead where every season another baddie will emerge.


I can't imagine a new train popping up at the end of every season.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Re the big silent guy waking up in a drawer speaking only Mandarin, see number 6 here: 10 PEOPLE THAT WOKE UP SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

robojerk said:


> I thought it was a good summer show. I think Melanie did a lot of F#&ed up things but in the end, she's thinking long term. *She said the drawers were a "life raft" (I think that's the term she used) because supplies/food is scarce and eventually people will be starving maybe years from this point and I think she intends to use the drawers to store people and keep them asleep so they burn less calories so they can keep more people alive longer*. Using the tail people is just a way to keep it secret from everyone.
> I can't imagine a new train popping up at the end of every season.


Melanie lies quite a bit, so have to question anything she says.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I wonder who Layton is going to "get busy" with next season. His ex is pregnant with his child but she snitched on and got his other ex killed so they're not on the best of terms. He's the star and seemingly has to have a love interest so... Melanie? Melanie's daughter? Ruth? LJ? Mr. Wilford?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LJ is certainly interested in him. But I can't see it being mutual.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It's a really bad idea to have other trains or even much regarding the off-train world, since once you introduce there being that sort of presence, you have to face the absolute idiocy behind the idea of a train moving over the same track repeatedly, even across oceans, being how survivors are being kept alive in the first place.

So if I'm expected to ignore that and consider it to be some sort of metaphor, they've basically entered very shaky territory with that second train, and with the broadcast received from somewhere outside the train.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Almost every sci-fi show enters shaky logical territory at some point.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dswallow said:


> So if I'm expected to ignore that and consider it to be some sort of metaphor, they've basically entered very shaky territory with that second train, and with the broadcast received from somewhere outside the train.


Well, the broadcast was from the other train, so there's really only one problem for you...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> LJ is certainly interested in him. But I can't see it being mutual.


White female sociopath falling for a jaded Black police detective. Now where have I seen that before?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Huh. This is interesting...apparently, all the graphic novels, the movie, and the TV show are officially in the same continuity.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Snowpiercer returns tomorrow night. Set your DVRs.


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