# EFF Article on 'Who Killed Tivo To Go'.



## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

This is a good read on the slanted playing field that Tivo and other CableCARD equiped Consumer devices face.

I recommend reading it, and using the link there to submit the formletter, or your own comments to the FCC on CableCARDs, the Integration Ban, and other Digital Cable TV unfairness you may be seeing.

http://www.eff.org/IP/pnp/cablewp.php

-Kyle


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

I was going to submit it to digg, but someone already did 99 days ago. I doubt any digging now will bring it to the front page. http://www.digg.com/hardware/Who_Killed_TiVoToGo_2

I submitted the FCC form letter. I suggest every S3 owner does the same.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> I was going to submit it to digg, but someone already did 99 days ago. I doubt any digging now will bring it to the front page. http://www.digg.com/hardware/Who_Killed_TiVoToGo_2
> 
> I submitted the FCC form letter. I suggest every S3 owner does the same.


Done. Thanks guys. Let's keep the ball rolling.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Here is the direct link to the EFF form letter that will be transmittend to the FCC:
http://action.eff.org/cablecard


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

I think we need this thread to be a sticky. Moderators?


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## patrickthickey (Sep 4, 2002)

This is a no brainer.

patrick


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## Austin_Martin (Sep 13, 2006)

Does anyone know if there's a similar type of form having to do with switched digital video? I wrote a complaint to the fcc through their standard form, but it seemed to be telecom-centric, rather than allowing for complaints against cable companies.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

done


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## Chew (Jan 22, 2003)

Also done.


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## onecastdan (Nov 25, 2006)

And one more, Done.


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## cloggiekiller (Jan 11, 2007)

Done


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

done


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

Done


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

It looks like most of the FCC decisions have already been made.


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## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

Done.


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## jbowden (Dec 12, 2006)

Done.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jlib said:


> It looks like most of the FCC decisions have already been made.


I certainly haven't read all of the documents, but I think all the recent decisions were about not letting the cable companies drag their feet any more on CableCARD STBs. I think fighting the over-protective DRM is still very relevant. We need to get the FCC to tell CableLabs and media owners to lighten up a little.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> I certainly haven't read all of the documents, but I think all the recent decisions were about not letting the cable companies drag their feet any more on CableCARD STBs. I think fighting the over-protective DRM is still very relevant. We need to get the FCC to tell CableLabs and media owners to lighten up a little.


Yes, and in addition even if they have made some decisions as one voice we can try and get them to change these decisions.


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## maharg18 (Dec 4, 2002)

Done!


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## ygiagam (Dec 21, 2006)

Done!


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

maharg18 said:


> Done!


Ditto!


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## Monty2_2001 (Aug 6, 2005)

Sent. I hope this gets someone's attention about SDV.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

done


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## Revolutionary (Dec 1, 2004)

Done


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## Prowest (Aug 18, 2005)

:up: :up: :up:


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## jordan34 (Dec 20, 2006)

done.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Done.

Also complained about Charter's terrible support of cablecards.


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## jahwz (May 3, 2006)

Done. :up: :up: :up:


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## dm-mm (May 31, 2006)

Done


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

Done


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Me too    (to the FCC)


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## Jombi122 (Jan 4, 2006)

Done


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> I certainly haven't read all of the documents, but I think all the recent decisions were about not letting the cable companies drag their feet any more on CableCARD STBs. I think fighting the over-protective DRM is still very relevant. We need to get the FCC to tell CableLabs and media owners to lighten up a little.


Ah, yes, good point. Done!


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## TallyLaddie (Nov 28, 2006)

Sent


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## gbm (Oct 6, 2001)

Done.

George
P.S. It's been 3 minutes and I still don't have a personal response from them indicating they see the error of their ways...guess I'll give it a couple more minutes


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

Done (Form letter)... thanks to Hookbill for the reminder thread about this.


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## skweaz (Feb 19, 2004)

Done.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

done


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

Done


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## rudiger (Feb 6, 2002)

Done

rudiger


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## jhand_us (Dec 28, 2006)

Done.


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## hednic (Sep 28, 2006)

Done


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## whedvig (Dec 6, 2006)

Done


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## suaspont (Dec 6, 2001)

On its way...


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

Done!!!


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Done!


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## MonitorMan (Mar 18, 2004)

Done...


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

Done. While I was at it, I added the following to the end of the letter to protest Switched Digital Video.

*Also, please make Switched Digital Video illegal. Many cable companies are planning to implement it and it will make all current cable card enabled devices obsolete, since it requires two way communication and all current cable card devices are one way only.*


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Is this encouragment to sign the cable card letter, or is there something else to sign? Hasn't the integration ban been firmed up by the FCC, so this doesn't seem to be adding anything.

The EFF seem a little extreme in their view of DRM.


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## cornstalkk (Oct 24, 2006)

Done


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Done!


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## fairythere (May 21, 2006)

1 to the FCC and 1 to my representative. Both personalized.


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## pbrass (Sep 26, 2003)

Done.


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## jdmass (Dec 1, 2002)

me too


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## bobharp (Jan 17, 2003)

Done


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

btwyx said:


> The EFF seem a little extreme in their view of DRM.


Sometimes the extreme view is the right one.


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## MonroeEfford (Oct 18, 2006)

Done...also passed along to 2 other Tivo users who have emailed.


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

submitted!


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## theLuggage (Sep 13, 2006)

Submitted the CableCard one and a few others.


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## mtchamp (May 15, 2001)

Onboard!


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

btwyx said:


> Is this encouragment to sign the cable card letter, or is there something else to sign? Hasn't the integration ban been firmed up by the FCC, so this doesn't seem to be adding anything.


Well I took the opportunity to actually voice my opinion against DCAS, which is what the cablecompanies want to replace CableCARDs with (both in their equipment and in CE devices.)

On one hand I like the idea that nothing else will be required to be installed. On the other hand I don't like the fact that I'll have to list every device with the cable company, and wait on them when ever I replace something with something newer.

So I wrote in my letter that I didn't like DCAS, and that I also thought they should push further to disallow pairing CableCARDs to devices. Basically I htink once I've gotten a CableCARD in my home all setup to work I should be able to move it where ever I want in my house. Why not?

So even though most decisions are in, and mostly the FCC stuck with it. I thin there is plenty of room for us to make our feeling known. Plus they left room for a bunch of the decisions to be appealed, or re-requested.

I'm in the middle on DRM. I don't mind it in theory, I mean I think the content providers should be able to keep me from distributing it to my friends... But in practice the way the Content providers have set it up, or forced it to be setup I am against. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to move the content I record between devices that all belong to my household.

Granted Tivo's MAK (Media Access Key) is a little weak, but it's the right Idea. My Cable Accoutn should have a MAK, and there should be a standard way to put my MAK into my PC, my Tivo, My Palm Pilot, My PSP, my DVD Recorder, My Treo, etc. and allow them all to view my recordings.

Go ahead watermark my recordings with my MAK, so that not only will they pointless to distribute, but if Id di anyway, or if I distributed my MAK along with them, The authorities could easily track it back to me.

Limit illegal use of the content all you want, Just don't limit my legal use!!!

-Kyle


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

kjmcdonald said:


> Limit illegal use of the content all you want, Just don't limit my legal use!!!


 :up: I can agree with that.


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## njdtivo (Nov 11, 2002)

Done.


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## Hunterxx (Aug 4, 2006)

Done


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## shiffrin (Aug 23, 2000)

Sent in my comments.


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## deeremj (Feb 25, 2001)

Counted in! -MJ


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## Higuchem (Jan 3, 2006)

done X 2
Get friends and family to help out.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

done


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

kjmcdonald said:


> Well I took the opportunity to actually voice my opinion against DCAS, which is what the cablecompanies want to replace CableCARDs with (both in their equipment and in CE devices.)
> 
> On one hand I like the idea that nothing else will be required to be installed. On the other hand I don't like the fact that I'll have to list every device with the cable company, and wait on them when ever I replace something with something newer.
> 
> ...


 :up: Well stated! :up:


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## haysdb (Dec 11, 2002)

BruceShultes said:


> Also, please make Switched Digital Video illegal. Many cable companies are planning to implement it and it will make all current cable card enabled devices obsolete, since it requires two way communication and all current cable card devices are one way only.


I think that would be shortsighted. SDV is not evil. It's a way for cable companies to increase the amount of HD content they can offer. This seems like a good thing to me. I also think they can implement it with minimal impact on the vast majority of consumers.


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## hammer32 (Jul 4, 2001)

Done.


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## miller890 (Feb 15, 2002)

Done.


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## JanS (Oct 18, 2004)

I also submiited...


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## dwarner (Feb 14, 2003)

I need to remind Charter that the only way I'm going to uprade from extended basic cable to digital HD is via CableCARD's in a S3 Tivo...


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## nateo44 (Nov 20, 2006)

Done, and in the words of a true patriot.....howard stern.... "F" the FCC!!!!!


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## norman1066 (Feb 4, 2005)

Done


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

The Scientific-Atlanta MCP-100 may not look all that sexy on the outside, but if you're a cable subscriber, this set-top box should give you reason to salivate. That's because the MCP-100 is an HD DVR that also has a built-in DVD burner. We heard about this one long before the show started, but Scientific-Atlanta is officially taking the wraps off of it here, saying that the MCP-100 "combines all the great features of Scientific-Atlanta's Explorer 8300 platform, multituner DVR optional high-definition DVR DOCSIS (DSG), and Multi-Room DVR capability with a new built-in DVD player and burner. This product is initially targeted at cable operators (MSOs) and enables subscribers to archive DVR content to writeable DVDs. This progressive, set-top device combines a dual-tuner DVR [with] access to DVR programming from any room in the home (via a multi-room server), delivers HD programming, plays commercial DVDs, and enables consumers to record their own DVDs from the DVR for both standard- and high-definition content. The DVR with DVD supports Multi-Room DVR enabling viewers in three other rooms in the home to simultaneously access content stored on the DVR hard drive and even view the same program, time-shifted at different points in the show."

Now tell me again why HMO is disabled in the HD Tivo.


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## PeytonRE (Oct 23, 2006)

Also Done.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm a little confused since the TIVO site is showing an add for a wireless device which enables multiroom viewing for the Series 3.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

kas25 said:


> I'm a little confused since the TIVO site is showing an add for a wireless device which enables multiroom viewing for the Series 3.


Probably TiVo will have some type of MRV in the future but not now and that ad is a bit misleading. Filling out the letters and sending them in will help to show that we want all of our S3 features enabled. Please personalize it if you like but kindly fill out the letter.


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

saberman said:


> The Scientific-Atlanta MCP-100 may not look all that sexy on the outside, but if you're a cable subscriber, this set-top box should give you reason to salivate. That's because the MCP-100 is an HD DVR that also has a built-in DVD burner. We heard about this one long before the show started, but Scientific-Atlanta is officially taking the wraps off of it here, saying that the MCP-100 "combines all the great features of Scientific-Atlanta's Explorer 8300 platform, multituner DVR optional high-definition DVR DOCSIS (DSG), and Multi-Room DVR capability with a new built-in DVD player and burner. This product is initially targeted at cable operators (MSOs) and enables subscribers to archive DVR content to writeable DVDs. This progressive, set-top device combines a dual-tuner DVR [with] access to DVR programming from any room in the home (via a multi-room server), delivers HD programming, plays commercial DVDs, and enables consumers to record their own DVDs from the DVR for both standard- and high-definition content. The DVR with DVD supports Multi-Room DVR enabling viewers in three other rooms in the home to simultaneously access content stored on the DVR hard drive and even view the same program, time-shifted at different points in the show."
> 
> Now tell me again why HMO is disabled in the HD Tivo.


First of all, HMO is enabled, the TTG and MRV portions of HMO (actually now called Home Media Features) only are disabled.

And why the SA box can easily do this is it is directly controlled by the cable operators. It does not need to pass any CableLabs approval process like the TiVoS3 and any other 3rd party do.


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## LunaC (Dec 20, 2005)

I read the article. Thanks for posting.
That just killed my plans to upgrade to Series 3 HD.
I was unaware that Tivo dropped the Tivo-To-Go feature and that you cannot transfer HD to your PC.
Bummer, but I guess someone in Hollywood is very happy, even tho they should not be.


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## Michael Gwynn (Aug 7, 2000)

me too (i hate me too posts)


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

hookbill said:


> Probably TiVo will have some type of MRV in the future but not now and that ad is a bit misleading. Filling out the letters and sending them in will help to show that we want all of our S3 features enabled. Please personalize it if you like but kindly fill out the letter.


If you got to Guides for the TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder:
http://customersupport.tivo.com/Lau...-f9c5-4014-b80b-0c44b2dee10a&anchor=undefined

Then select Home Media Features Guide
http://customersupport.tivo.com/Lau...a13d925a8e6&anchor=undefined&anchor=undefined

And finally Home Media Features guide for TiVo Desktop 2.3 (4.7 MB)
http://customersupport.tivo.com/Content/Instancy%20V2%20Folders/2988/TiVo%20Desktop%20&%20Home%20Media%20Features%20Guide%20(version%202.3).pdf

It clearly says that TiVo To Go is available.

Also, if you go to Browse List of Articles:
http://customersupport.tivo.com/BrowseArticles.aspx

Then filter by hardware Series3 HD you will also see under TiVo features TiVo To Go. TiVo is advertising the Series3 HD as having TiVo To Go available.

Now if I had bought a Series3 HD box I would insist that TiVo provide the features it says are available -- including TiVo To Go. It is part of the supported features listed on their web site.

My guess is TiVo has very little time to provide TiVo To Go on the Series3 HD before it gets hit with a class action lawsuit.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

saberman said:


> If you got to Guides for the TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder:
> http://customersupport.tivo.com/Lau...-f9c5-4014-b80b-0c44b2dee10a&anchor=undefined
> 
> Then select Home Media Features Guide
> ...


Oh crap, another CAL. Don't make me laugh.

Take a look at this and then get back to me.


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## haysdb (Dec 11, 2002)

I see several things in that list not available today:
Online Scheduling
Multi-Room Viewing
TivoToGo
KidZone
Not now, but maybe Real Soon Now?


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

haysdb said:


> I see several things in that list not available today:
> Online Scheduling
> Multi-Room Viewing
> TivoToGo
> ...


On lins scheduling is indeed available now. It just requires TiVo desk top.


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## mercurial (Oct 17, 2002)

On-line scheduling does not require TiVo desktop. You can do it from the TiVo website.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

hookbill said:


> Oh crap, another CAL. Don't make me laugh.
> 
> Take a look at this and then get back to me.


OK. I wasted fifteen minutes listening to it and it boils down to TiVo released the Series3 HD platorm before they deleveloped support for the features they advertise it as having. They could legally provide support for TiVo to Go for non-HD content and they could legally provide support for GoBack for any content on the PC.

IMHO, they were in a rush to get the Series3 HD to market before the 2006 holiday season and chose to release it without the ToGo/GoBack support which is still in developement. The fact remains that they advertise the Series3 HD on their web site as having TiVo to Go and GoBack and it doesn't. Now can you point to a page on TiVo's web site or some part of the order process that alerts the buyer to the fact that the Series3 HD does not have the advertised features?

If not I stand by my statement that they are open to a class action lawsuit for false advertising and failing to deliver features that were paid for by the buyer.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

saberman said:


> IMHO, they were in a rush to get the Series3 HD to market before the 2006 holiday season and chose to release it without the ToGo/GoBack support which is still in developement. The fact remains that they advertise the Series3 HD on their web site as having TiVo to Go and GoBack and it doesn't. Now can you point to a page on TiVo's web site or some part of the order process that alerts the buyer to the fact that the Series3 HD does not have the advertised features?


You show me on the website where it does say it has TiVo to Go. I didn't see it when I clicked on the S3 box?


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## Ariel817 (Mar 10, 2003)

Message sent, and here's how I personalized the bottom:

My personal experience comes as a long time TiVo owner. My family has had two TiVos for several years, and enjoyed the FREEDOM to transfer content from one TiVo to the other. We recently upgraded to HD on our main television, and added a third HD compatible TiVo Series 3 to the mix. (This, after trying the cable company's DVR and finding it so far substandard to a TiVo, the extra expenses were worth it.) 

Two things were quickly apparent:

1) Getting working cablecards from the cable company was a complete whipping -- I don't think they are very eager to comply with providing these devices to consumers, and it took the better part of a month and a great deal of persistence on our part.

and

2) The CableLabs entity, by having to certify TiVo's cablecards, has an unfair stranglehold on how we watch tv in our house. No longer can I record a show in the living room, lay down in bed, and watch it back there by transferring it TiVo-to-TiVo.. part of the multi-room viewing feature that's been available for years on the earlier (non cable-card) TiVos. What a HUGE disappointment, and I don't see how the fact that I like to watch TV laying down harms content providers.

I know the public doesn't have paid lobbyists to come and make our points persuasively.... but this country has always been about freedom, free markets, and technological innovation. To allow such a stranglehold by a consortium of cable operators violates those precepts. I understand the goal of protecting intellectual property, but don't forget that given free reign, they will go far beyond meeting a valid and legitimate goal in order to create a monopoly on the marketplace and enhance corporate profits. Also understandable goals, but not ones that should rise to the level of government backing.

Please restore my freedom to watch TV when I want and WHERE I want!!


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

saberman said:


> The Scientific-Atlanta MCP-100 may not look all that sexy on the outside, but if you're a cable subscriber, this set-top box should give you reason to salivate. That's because the MCP-100 is an HD DVR that also has a built-in DVD burner. We heard about this one long before the show started, but Scientific-Atlanta is officially taking the wraps off of it here, saying that the MCP-100 "combines all the great features of Scientific-Atlanta's Explorer 8300 platform, multituner DVR optional high-definition DVR DOCSIS (DSG), and Multi-Room DVR capability with a new built-in DVD player and burner. This product is initially targeted at cable operators (MSOs) and enables subscribers to archive DVR content to writeable DVDs. This progressive, set-top device combines a dual-tuner DVR [with] access to DVR programming from any room in the home (via a multi-room server), delivers HD programming, plays commercial DVDs, and enables consumers to record their own DVDs from the DVR for both standard- and high-definition content. The DVR with DVD supports Multi-Room DVR enabling viewers in three other rooms in the home to simultaneously access content stored on the DVR hard drive and even view the same program, time-shifted at different points in the show."
> 
> Now tell me again why HMO is disabled in the HD Tivo.


You didn't quote the whole article:


> Of course, while the whole idea of easily making hard copies of your HD recording (down-converted to DVD resolution) certainly sounds enticing, _*the movie and TV studios are not so enthused about it, so the big question remains when cable operators will actually adopt this killer product*_--and whether they plan on charging you extra to make those hard copies. Currently, the folks at Time Warner Cable bill me $18 a month to use my Explorer 8300. For that price, I think they should throw in a little DVD burning, don't you?


The other thing is, this is not out in the market, so in a way, it's still vaporware...just as much as the Comcast TiVo...

If I remember correctly, the FIOS DVR has multiroom viewing from the centrally located unit.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

hookbill said:


> You show me on the website where it does say it has TiVo to Go. I didn't see it when I clicked on the S3 box?


You seem to have short memory. The posting that you originally replied to included:

Also, if you go to Browse List of Articles:
http://customersupport.tivo.com/BrowseArticles.aspx

Then filter by hardware Series3 HD you will also see under TiVo features TiVo To Go. TiVo is advertising the Series3 HD as having TiVo To Go available.

The what is TiVo page http://www.tivo.com/1.0.asp includes TiVo to go as being available on all TiVos. The customer support articles list TiVo to as being available on the Series3 HD. The TiVo demo includes multi-room viewing.

You are correct that the page you found for the Series3 HD box does not list TiVo to Go. It also says it is not a complete list of the features and that there are many more than are listed there.

Nowhere in any of the descriptions of the Series3 HD does it say it does not have the standard TiVo features as described in all of the TiVo web site and demos.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

haysdb said:


> I see several things in that list not available today:
> Online Scheduling
> Multi-Room Viewing
> TivoToGo
> ...


TiVo has not completed the development of the software for things like TiVo to Go for the Series3 HD platform.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

DeathRider said:


> You didn't quote the whole article:
> 
> The other thing is, this is not out in the market, so in a way, it's still vaporware...just as much as the Comcast TiVo...
> 
> If I remember correctly, the FIOS DVR has multiroom viewing from the centrally located unit.


The difference is that the Scientific-Atlanta MCP-100 is working and only waiting for approval. TiVo does not have a working Series3 HD box with either a DVD burner or multi-room viewing. They cannot demonstrate the product because they do not have the function working on the Series3 HD platform.

Where's the Demo model?


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

saberman said:


> The difference is that the Scientific-Atlanta MCP-100 is working and only waiting for approval. TiVo does not have a working Series3 HD box with either a DVD burner or multi-room viewing. They cannot demonstrate the product because they do not have the function working on the Series3 HD platform.
> 
> Where's the Demo model?


No DVD model, sure.

But who says they don't have the MRV software working? It does on S2's, the software won't change to speak of for the S3.

I was just assuming they hadn't enabled that option, but that the coding was ready to go when they can do so legally.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

saberman said:


> TiVo has not completed the development of the software for things like TiVo to Go for the Series3 HD platform.


Yes they have. They just can't use it because of CableLabs hasn't given the go ahead.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

hookbill said:


> Yes they have. They just can't use it because of CableLabs hasn't given the go ahead.


If you have fifteen minutes to waste you can watch this:

http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/01/ces_jim_denny_tivo.html

It is clear from the discussion that TiVo does not have the development done for the Series3 HD platform for TiVo to Go and GoBack. It is a completely new platform and they need to develop a lot of software before you will be able to move videos around. Remember, there isn't any legal restriction that prevents them from supporting GoBack to allow you to see videos hosted on your PC on the TiVo. Nor is there any legal restriction that prevents them from supporting viewing shows recorded on a Series2 on a Series3. They just don't have the software developed much less the support in place.


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## rbprescott (Feb 26, 2002)

Submitted and forwarded site to three other Series 2 users. One is moving to Hong Kong and will recieve some shows over the internet from a relative. Series 2  Series 3  for internet trans mission but I do love my HD.


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

saberman said:


> If you have fifteen minutes to waste you can watch this:
> 
> http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/01/ces_jim_denny_tivo.html
> 
> It is clear from the discussion that TiVo does not have the development done for the Series3 HD platform for TiVo to Go and GoBack. It is a completely new platform and they need to develop a lot of software before you will be able to move videos around. Remember, there isn't any legal restriction that prevents them from supporting GoBack to allow you to see videos hosted on your PC on the TiVo. Nor is there any legal restriction that prevents them from supporting viewing shows recorded on a Series2 on a Series3. They just don't have the software developed much less the support in place.


I think you are misinterpreting it. I think they do have MRV and TTG easily available. By "working on it" I think they mean they are trying to convince CableLabs that everything is going to be safe. You are correct in that nothing legally is stopping them. But as soon as they release that on their own, CableLabs could revoke the S3s right to be on the approved list of Cablecard devices. This would mean the cable companies would be allowed to come and yank all their cablecards back from us.

As to the software, when they branched off to the S3 development, they did not start from scratch, they took where they were at in S2 software and started making changes. MRV, TTG and other things were already supported in the version we are now using. They are just disabled. And to prove that point about a month or two ago they accidentally turned on the portion where you are able to see other TiVos. It only lasted a day or two, before they sent the update to the Tivo changing permissions back from a,a,a to i,i,i (I think those were the letters). Granted, this did not allow transfers because on the TiVocentral site you still could not enable transfers, but it did allow the looking functions to be enabled and starting a transfer just gave the error about transfers not being allowed. (Which there would be no error, if there wasn't any code in the Tivo regarding MRV transfers)


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## jjarmoc (Sep 15, 2006)

Well, I had a letter in the mailbox today from the FCC. Thing is, it's just some old press clippings from May of 1999.

Seriously, 1999? Like nothing has changed in the past 8 years? It even has all kinds of forward-looking backward-looking statements about an upcoming review in 2000.

Sheeshhhh... no woner we're in the quagmire we're in. If they're sending out eight year old press clippings to concerned citizens, I have little hope of anything good ever coming out of the FCC.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

saberman said:


> If you have fifteen minutes to waste you can watch this:
> 
> http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/01/ces_jim_denny_tivo.html
> 
> It is clear from the discussion that TiVo does not have the development done for the Series3 HD platform for TiVo to Go and GoBack. It is a completely new platform and they need to develop a lot of software before you will be able to move videos around. Remember, there isn't any legal restriction that prevents them from supporting GoBack to allow you to see videos hosted on your PC on the TiVo. Nor is there any legal restriction that prevents them from supporting viewing shows recorded on a Series2 on a Series3. They just don't have the software developed much less the support in place.


It is crystal clear to me from the very informative video that the MRV and TTG are "Under Development" and will be released on the Series3 later this year. TiVo focused on creating a solid hardware platform and is adding features to the Platform this year. They are waiting on CableLabs for certification of the eSATA port. There may be a difference in behavior between content from the CableCards and content received over the air.

Thanks for the link!
-Sam


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

Leo_N said:


> I think you are misinterpreting it. I think they do have MRV and TTG easily available. By "working on it" I think they mean they are trying to convince CableLabs that everything is going to be safe. You are correct in that nothing legally is stopping them. But as soon as they release that on their own, CableLabs could revoke the S3s right to be on the approved list of Cablecard devices. This would mean the cable companies would be allowed to come and yank all their cablecards back from us.
> 
> As to the software, when they branched off to the S3 development, they did not start from scratch, they took where they were at in S2 software and started making changes. MRV, TTG and other things were already supported in the version we are now using. They are just disabled. And to prove that point about a month or two ago they accidentally turned on the portion where you are able to see other TiVos. It only lasted a day or two, before they sent the update to the Tivo changing permissions back from a,a,a to i,i,i (I think those were the letters). Granted, this did not allow transfers because on the TiVocentral site you still could not enable transfers, but it did allow the looking functions to be enabled and starting a transfer just gave the error about transfers not being allowed. (Which there would be no error, if there wasn't any code in the Tivo regarding MRV transfers)


I suggest you listen again. The Series3 HD is a completely new platform. The software to support TiVo to Go and GoBack are underdevelopment.

They could release GoBack today and the the CableLabs couldn't care less because it is bringing content into the TiVo not out. The reason they haven't is they don't have it working. The same is true of viewing a Series2 show on a Series3. Again, CableLabs couldn't care less. The error message you saw is because they can't handle the transfer. If you have a video file on your PC and a Series2 TiVo does like the file format you get a not found message. The access denied is the equivalent. They don't have the support in the box to handle the transfer. BTW, a number of folks with Series3 HD have said they enabled transfers on TiVocentral web site and they just get the access denied message.

Like I said above, listen to the message again. The Series3 HD is a new platform and TiVo is still developing the box to box communications.


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## blakewhitaker (Oct 20, 2004)

Done.


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## Monty2_2001 (Aug 6, 2005)

I just got some FCC letter in the mail with a lot of legalize about STB's and cable cards and so on. I assume, due to me signing on this petitition. Anyone else get this???


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## trafeng (Aug 3, 2002)

done


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## tjkc (Oct 30, 2004)

Done


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## Fourthman (Jun 17, 2005)

Done.


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## mr.cello (Jul 28, 2004)

I got something like this too - I also assumed it was related to the petition.


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## HORUS (Jan 15, 2007)

Is Hook still around?


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## shaggy314 (Feb 18, 2007)

Somebody posted that he was banned or something (do a search, I cannot remember when).

What does CableLabs have to do with MY S3? I have no cablecards in it. I get the OTA HD via antenna and analog cable over cable. Why does CableVision control my private end user content for TTG when I'm not using their cards and the only change is the model of TiVo.


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## blakewhitaker (Oct 20, 2004)

I agree. I would live it if TIVO sent an update that allowed you to have ALL the features as long as the Cable Card function was inactive or disabled. I have no intention of using a Cable Card and would love it if I could use my Series 3 with over the air High Def (The only way I will ever get it) and pass shows back and forth like the other 3 TIVO's in my house can. I already pay too much for TV service, not going to pay even more for multiple showings of movies I never intend to watch.


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## sheldondav (Nov 6, 2002)

Here is the response I got back from CableLabs regarding the S3 and TivoToGo:

"CableLabs is currently working with Tivo to review technology that would enable certain secure home networking features. In the interim, Tivo chose not to include such features in the Tivo Series3 DVR. Tivo2Go was NOT one of the technologies submitted to CableLabs for review."

To me at least, it seems that TIVO dropped the ball.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

sheldondav said:


> To me at least, it seems that TIVO dropped the ball.


It depends. Had TiVo submitted TiVo2Go to Cablelabs at that time, it may have taken cablelabs another year to certify it - or they may have refused to certify the S3 altogether, in which case TiVo would have had to go through the whole process again!

It seems like TiVo did the smart thing.


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## Zcar78 (Jul 30, 2002)

Done


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

I say be patient everyone.

eSATA is now enabled and working. For the most part, even though it isn't officially supported yet.

Interesting though how as soon as Cablelabs one hears that they approved external storage for everyone in general, how soon after that S3 Tivos started to work with eSATA.

Almost as though it was ALLREADY working, but just needed to be enabled. I think many other features that are Cablelabe controlled might also be that way too. Once we get apporval from them they will work.

As far as features go that don't need their approval? I think that is honestly a TIVO developement issue.

So in the mean time I wait patiently. The unit hasn't even been out for a full year yet. Give em some time to figure it out!

TexasGrillChef

P.S.

In the last year we have manged to obtain a few new features

eSATA
Amazon Unbox (Yeah it isn't great but it is a start)
and Home movie capability through an internet source.

Not bad I would say for 9 months so far.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

As an update - in working on the TiVo HD review, TiVo told me they intend to enable TTG/MRV before the end of the year.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

megazone said:


> As an update - in working on the TiVo HD review, TiVo told me they intend to enable TTG/MRV before the end of the year.


Thanks for passing that on.

Forgive me if I don't believe it until I see it. It is TIVO after all.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

megazone said:


> As an update - in working on the TiVo HD review, TiVo told me they intend to enable TTG/MRV before the end of the year.


Would you like to buy a bridge from me? It already has tollbooths installed. I'll give you a quit claim deed. Just repond with your credit card number, expiration date and security code (the three or four numbers on the back). I'll take care of everything.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

saberman said:


> Would you like to buy a bridge from me? It already has tollbooths installed. I'll give you a quit claim deed. Just repond with your credit card number, expiration date and security code (the three or four numbers on the back). I'll take care of everything.


 And what will you give me if they deliver? ;-)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Thanks for passing that on.
> 
> Forgive me if I don't believe it until I see it. It is TIVO after all.


I think TiVo has changed from days of old. Mac desktop is out the door. Look at how fast they delivered the TiVo HD after the S3 and realizing they needed to ship a lower cost HD DVR. This is a TiVo of making regular releases and updates, this is not the TiVo of old.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

megazone said:


> And what will you give me if they deliver? ;-)


The same bridge -- at half the price.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I think TiVo has changed from days of old. Mac desktop is out the door. Look at how fast they delivered the TiVo HD after the S3 and realizing they needed to ship a lower cost HD DVR. This is a TiVo of making regular releases and updates, this is not the TiVo of old.


Wow, if that's fast....well, I guess I didn't know what "fast" meant after all.

Where's my dictionary?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Wow, if that's fast....well, I guess I didn't know what "fast" meant after all.


For new hardware, yes, that's VERY fast by any rational definition.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

megazone said:


> For new hardware, yes, that's VERY fast by any rational definition.


For new software that is very very slow. They still don't support sub directories after years of requests.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

saberman said:


> For new software that is very very slow. They still don't support sub directories after years of requests.


Just because something is requested doesn't mean they will ever do it. They get thousands of feature requests, I've made probably a few hundred myself over the years, and it all has to be balanced with other demands and resource allocation. There are many features that some users would like to see that will simply never be added - not enough demand, not enough return on investment (won't sell more boxes, while some other feature will), or it just conflicts with some design philosophy.

The latter has killed several features, as TiVo's overriding design philosophy is to try to keep things as simple as possible. So advanced features for power users generally never get added because they tend to add complexity.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

You are correct that the failure to provide user requested features is deliberate and not due to lack of resources. Take for example the above mentioned folder support.

TiVo supports folders for Pictures and for Music. Therefore the TiVo desktop application can handle folders. For some reason TiVo refuses to support folders for Video. (It would be nice if some day they explained why they don't want to support it.) IMHO, one of the primary reasons that folks are going to third party PC applications is to get folder support for Video files. If you look at the requests for help and at the discussions on the third party applications most of the users are not power users -- they just want a simple way to orgainize their Video files.


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## TerryTT (Aug 8, 2007)

megazone said:


> Just because something is requested doesn't mean they will ever do it. They get thousands of feature requests, I've made probably a few hundred myself over the years, and it all has to be balanced with other demands and resource allocation. There are many features that some users would like to see that will simply never be added - not enough demand, not enough return on investment (won't sell more boxes, while some other feature will), or it just conflicts with some design philosophy.
> 
> The latter has killed several features, as TiVo's overriding design philosophy is to try to keep things as simple as possible. So advanced features for power users generally never get added because they tend to add complexity.


Yep, bug fixes will always take priority and development budget over features; but its nice to see tivo does keep moving forward, even if it is slowly for some of us.

As for the hardware the tivohd is pretty amazing, a slightly cut down, system at a very good entry price so quickly after the first hd box is amazing... shame it took so long for the first hd box.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

saberman said:


> I suggest you listen again. The Series3 HD is a completely new platform. The software to support TiVo to Go and GoBack are under development.


No, it isn't and no, they are not. The MFS file system is the same as it was on the Series I and Series II. Transferring files is handled the very same way. The OS build is different, but it's still Linux. The encryption is also different and the Series III has MPEG-4 capability in situ but not yet enabled, but this does not significantly impact the transfer mechanism. The same hacks which work on the Series II work on the Series III.



saberman said:


> They could release GoBack today and the the CableLabs couldn't care less because it is bringing content into the TiVo not out. The reason they haven't is they don't have it working. The same is true of viewing a Series2 show on a Series3. Again, CableLabs couldn't care less.


They do have it working. I can't tell you how I know, but I do. And while Cable Labs SHOULDN'T care, they do. They practically pee in their pants at the thought of transferring content either direction. That said, they have given some approvals for some systems to transfer content onto DVRs.



saberman said:


> Like I said above, listen to the message again. The Series3 HD is a new platform and TiVo is still developing the box to box communications.


The protocols involved were developed decades ago. The video content is nothing but a bunch of i-nodes on a hard drive. The MFS file system is quite unique compared to most other file systems, but that is not relevant. Moving data off the hard drive and handing it to the TCP stack is no different in the TiVo Series III than it is on a PC running Red Hat, Debian, or Xandros Linux, however you might choose to interpret a press release video or what is in fact said in that press release notwithstanding.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

saberman said:


> For new software that is very very slow. They still don't support sub directories after years of requests.


'Do what I do. Put your files on a Linux system. That way you can organize them any way you want, but still create hard links to the files for the TiVo. While TiVo Desktop Music recognizes subdirectories, it doesn't work properly with them. Keeping the music files on a Linux system eliminates all the issues.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> 'Do what I do. Put your files on a Linux system. That way you can organize them any way you want, but still create hard links to the files for the TiVo. While TiVo Desktop Music recognizes subdirectories, it doesn't work properly with them. Keeping the music files on a Linux system eliminates all the issues.


It is not organiziing them on the PC that is the problem it is having all of them show up in Now Playing when you click on the PC Name. I have 882 video files. Having them all in one list is insane.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

saberman said:


> It is not organiziing them on the PC that is the problem it is having all of them show up in Now Playing when you click on the PC Name. I have 882 video files. Having them all in one list is insane.


_*Eight hundred eighty two!!!*_

Good gawd almighty. I have somewhat more than that many music files, but *video??!!* What sort of files do you have? I'm trying to figure out where I can come up with the money to be able to put together a large enough RAID array to fit 400 movie titles. Of course, the moment I start to think it might be possible, I start thinking about HD titles. Maybe with MPEG-4...


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> _*Eight hundred eighty two!!!*_
> 
> Good gawd almighty. I have somewhat more than that many music files, but *video??!!* What sort of files do you have? I'm trying to figure out where I can come up with the money to be able to put together a large enough RAID array to fit 400 movie titles. Of course, the moment I start to think it might be possible, I start thinking about HD titles. Maybe with MPEG-4...


The machine has two 500 GB internal SATA drives. They used to be mirrored but I ran out of room so I broke the mirror. It also one 250 GB external USB drive used to backup user data and four 500 GB external USB drives that are used to backup video, music and pictures. There is also a NAS drive used to backup user data, pictuers and music and shared with the Linux box.

I have three sources for the video files: My camera, the TiVo and rip DVDs. Please note that I own all of the DVDs that I have ripped. I just find it easier to be able to select them from the PC than to have to dig through the physical DVDS.

I use Galleon to provide the folder support but use TiVo desktop to copy TiVo files to the PC. I use DVD Shrink to rip the DVDs. I have two Series 2 TiVos. (I would have bought a Series 3 instead of the second Series 2 but Series 3 don't allow you to move video files around.)


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

I don't really care about TTG- but any word lately on MRV? I mean, c'mon- it's getting close to a year since I bought my S3...and it still can't do MRV! We keep hearing it's going to happen and been "soon"...but how long can TiVo keep using that line???


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

Bighouse said:


> I don't really care about TTG- but any word lately on MRV? I mean, c'mon- it's getting close to a year since I bought my S3...and it still can't do MRV! We keep hearing it's going to happen and been "soon"...but how long can TiVo keep using that line???


It can't be a legal problem because there isn't any legal problem with transferring videos from a PC to the TiVo and S3 can't do that.

It can't be a software problem because transferring a file between two Linux machines has been available since the beginning of time.

Therefore it must be a marketting problem. Some bean counter in the bowels of the world determined that TiVo could sell more subscriptions if the S3 could not talke to each other or to a PC. So if you have five S3 and could transfer files between them you only need one TiVo subscription. But if you can't transfer files between them you need five TiVo subscriptionss so each machine can record the same programs.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

saberman said:


> It can't be a legal problem because there isn't any legal problem with transferring videos from a PC to the TiVo and S3 can't do that.


Oh, yeah, it can be a legal issue. First of all, "legal" is hardly the right word to use when talking about Cable Labs certification. There are very few laws (or even FCC regulations) which force Cable Labs to certify a particular feature. Heck, they only just very recently said they would not disapprove a piece of hardware with an enabled e-SATA port. Secondly, Cable Labs practially has a fit at the thought of moving video content in either direction, although they have allowed for vidceos to be downloaded to a DVR. What's more impotrant, however, is that MRV requires video to be moved off one DVR and onto another. Cable Labs just about has a stroke at the thought of anything which might circumvent DRM and HDCP.

All that said, I know from a very reliable source it is coming.



saberman said:


> It can't be a software problem because transferring a file between two Linux machines has been available since the beginning of time.


Oh yeah, it can. It's not a problem for the transfer, but it can be a problem for the software which PREVENTS the transfer in support of DRM. Believe me, getting approval for such software from people who if they had their way would prevent the production and sale of DVRs entirely can b e very difficult.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

>although they have allowed for vidceos to be downloaded to a DVR. 

So why doesn't TiVo support downloading Videos from the PC to the S3?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

saberman said:


> Therefore it must be a marketting problem. Some bean counter in the bowels of the world determined that TiVo could sell more subscriptions if the S3 could not talke to each other or to a PC. So if you have five S3 and could transfer files between them you only need one TiVo subscription. But if you can't transfer files between them you need five TiVo subscriptionss so each machine can record the same programs.


Even with MRV and TTG you need each machine to have a subscription - the units do not do ANYTHING without a subscription. So your theory is bunk.

As has been explained many times before, TiVo had to work with Cable Labs to get approval for MRV and TTG. Could that have allowed TTCB (shows TO the TiVo) in the meantime? Probably. They decided not to in order to keep things simple, since they were working on a full solution with everything working. Instead of releasing it piecemeal they just disabled it all until they could work it out to enable everything.

And they've said it will be enabled before the end of the year.


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

saberman said:


> Would you like to buy a bridge from me? It already has tollbooths installed. I'll give you a quit claim deed. Just repond with your credit card number, expiration date and security code (the three or four numbers on the back). I'll take care of everything.


Is that bridge ready?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

saberman said:


> Therefore it must be a marketting problem.


Actually it is a marketing problem.
If TiVo ignored cable labs and did things that vioded the cable labs certification then cable companies could very legally and simply say - sorry your TiVo does not have a cablelabs certification we will not install cable cards and you can not get any digital cable channels on your TiVo. Indeed it would be very hard to market a cable HD DVR that could not get digital cable channel to record the HD.

With a cablelabs certification the cable companies must support installing cable cards in your TiVo.

also this thread may want to note that TTG/MRV is coming to S3 line in November


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

megazone said:


> And they've said it will be enabled before the end of the year.


Did they say which year?


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

kmill14 said:


> Is that bridge ready?


It was ready on time -- when the the S3 was originally supposed to have TTG and MVR. But then bridges are much simpler than software. (Now if you believe that I have a special on a floating city...)


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

saberman said:


> Did they say which year?


Yes.


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

bicker said:


> Yes.


Please do not keep us in suspense -- what year was it? I think the first time it was the end of 2006. Are they now saying the end of 2007? Just in time for the holidays' shopping season.

I still have the bridge available for sale with tollboths.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

saberman said:


> Please do not keep us in suspense -- what year was it? I think the first time it was the end of 2006. Are they now saying the end of 2007? Just in time for the holidays' shopping season.
> 
> I still have the bridge available for sale with tollboths.


be as sarcastic as you want but it will just look silly instead when TTG/MRV is out in November 2007


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

There sure was lots of juvenile silliness going on this weekend. Sigh. 

Yes: 2007.


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

In any case, no one killed TTG...! yay


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## saberman (May 4, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> be as sarcastic as you want but it will just look silly instead when TTG/MRV is out in November 2007


I use TiVo for two things:
1. To do time shifting of programs.
2. To view video files that may or may not have come from the TiVo but that are stored on my PC.

Implementation of TTG/MRV on the S3 means I will have the same capability as I have with an S3.

I have 958 video files on my PC distributed in 30 folders that I can access from my S2 TiVo. I agree I will look silly in November if it is possible to access them from an S3 TiVo. Will you agree that you will look silly if I can't?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

saberman said:


> I agree I will look silly in November if it is possible to access them from an S3 TiVo. Will you agree that you will look silly if I can't?


sure


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## sbwlaw (Sep 22, 2007)

megazone said:


> [TIVO] decided not to in order to keep things simple, since they were working on a full solution with everything working. Instead of releasing it piecemeal they just disabled it all until they could work it out to enable everything. And they've said it will be enabled before the end of the year.


Where and when did Tivo say To Go feature would be enabled on the S3? I have been trying to contact Tivo for the past 6 months (without success) to find out whether and/or when I will be able to transfer SD and/or HD programs on my S3 Tivo to my PC to save such programs to a DVD.

When I purcheased the new S3 from Tivo, I knew that the To Go feature would not work for HD programs; however, I was totally blindsided when I found out that it would not work for SD programs as well. {In fact, I could not even transfer SD programs on the S3 to another S2 that I have connected in the basement.]

I have also written letters to Tivo complaining about selling an "upgrade" that does not include a key feature of the "old" S2 WITHOT telling the prospective purchaser (at least in my case) about that fact. I have never received a response from Tivo. Thus, I was both elated and dumfounded when I saw your note that Tivo has announced it will enable the To Go feature on the S3 sometime "before the end of the year." When and where did they say that? [I believe you, I just want to read any added details to satidfy my curiosity.]

Thanks,

Steve


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

sbwlaw said:


> Where and when did Tivo say To Go feature would be enabled on the S3? I have been trying to contact Tivo for the past 6 months (without success) to find out whether and/or when I will be able to transfer SD and/or HD programs on my S3 Tivo to my PC to save such programs to a DVD.
> 
> When I purcheased the new S3 from Tivo, I knew that the To Go feature would not work for HD programs; however, I was totally blindsided when I found out that it would not work for SD programs as well. {In fact, I could not even transfer SD programs on the S3 to another S2 that I have connected in the basement.]
> 
> ...


Steve, welcome to the forum.

ANd Steve, I call BS! I do not believe you.

Trying to reach them for six months? Come on!

Six minutes, I could see.

But come on man, they do pick up the phone eventually.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

sbwlaw said:


> Where and when did Tivo say To Go feature would be enabled on the S3? I have been trying to contact Tivo for the past 6 months (without success) to find out whether and/or when I will be able to transfer SD and/or HD programs on my S3 Tivo to my PC to save such programs to a DVD.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365225

It's currently do to be enabled this November.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ThreeSoFar said:


> ANd Steve, I call BS! I do not believe you.
> 
> Trying to reach them for six months? Come on!
> 
> ...


Well, yeah, but I took it to mean he has been trying for six months to get someone at TiVo to tell him when TTG and MRV would be available. That I believe, and in fact I've been trying to do the same thing for almost a year, ever since I got my first S3. It isn't that I couldn't contact anyone at TiVo, it's that I could not contact anyone at TiVo who could give me any information on the subject. I think that's what the OP meant. If not, then you're right, he's full of BS.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

morac said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365225
> 
> It's currently do to be enabled this November.


BTW, if the "Fall Update" is rolling out now, why do we have to wait until November for MRV and TTG? (Or, will we?)


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

sbwlaw said:


> Where and when did Tivo say To Go feature would be enabled on the S3?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365225&page=1&pp=30

In case you don't know, TiVoPony is an official rep of TiVo.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366908&page=1

Many people have received a new software download. It's speculated TTG and MRV are in there.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> BTW, if the "Fall Update" is rolling out now, why do we have to wait until November for MRV and TTG? (Or, will we?)


So they can iron out initial 9.1 support issues, I guess. Or because they have some contractual reason to hold of on transfers until some time in Novemeber.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> BTW, if the "Fall Update" is rolling out now, why do we have to wait until November for MRV and TTG? (Or, will we?)


Right now 9.1 is in pre-release, so if problems come up from this early group it may be held back for fixes, etc. And once it does start rolling out, I bet TiVo wants to get *everyone* up to 9.1 before flipping the switch to enable MRV/TTG to avoid confusion when someone has one box with 9.1 and one without and they won't talk, etc. Since TiVoJerry said this pre-release will go a couple of weeks, that gets us to October. Then a few weeks for the deployment ramp-up until everyone gets it - presuming no delays for issues that could crop up - and that's easily November before everyone has it.

Better to deliver early on a promise than to deliver late, so November is a good target - and it gives them the month to play with.


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