# MoCA set-up for Edge for Antenna - 2021



## Parks

First off, let's all agree that Edge for antenna does not have MoCA, which most of us only realize after buying and returning a 2-tuner TiVo Edge for Antenna from Channel Master (from the TiVo web page link) and then purchasing a 4-tuner TiVo Edge for Antenna from Amazon. Why, because the 2-tuner Edge doesn't work with the new mini's.

Secondly, I want to point out that the illustration of how to set-up a MoCA setup for the TiVo Edge for Antenna in the Tivo Knowledge base is flat out wrong, see attached (TiVo Knowledge - MoCA Setup - TiVo Edge for Antenna). It simply does not work. I set it up their way and it didn't work.

I have redrawn their wiring using my equipment in my home and then constructed the wiring per my drawing of TiVo's instruction, see attached (0 - MoCA Layout-Page-1). It did not work.

Then, I just thought, what is a MoCA network Bridge trying to do? It's trying to combine a over-the-air (OTA) TV signal with an internet signal to produce a MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance) signal.

So, I just connected the roof-top antenna coaxial cable to the coax input of the TiVo Bridge Plus, then connected a CAT-6 ethernet cable from my router to the RJ-45 input of the TiVo Bridge Plus.

The coaxial output from the TiVo Bridge Plus is connected to a MoCA rated (5-2300 MHz) 3-way splitter for sending MoCA signals to 3 of my TV's. My office TV connects wirelessly to the router via WiFi Mesh to retrieve a MoCA signal. See attached (0 - Moca Layout-page 2). It works flawlessly.

I hear a lot about TiVo customers being less than satisfied with TiVo's customer service/Tech support during the years since it was bought by Xperi Holding Comapanies (*XPER* on Nasdaq Global Select Market) but this is the first time I have actually proved conclusively that their advice is flat out wrong.

Let the Good-Times roll!


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## HoTatII

Yeah, but I'd say in fairness to TiVo here ...

Even though in their original drawing they confusingly used the picture of a router. Notice it is labeled as a "gateway."

Which appears to mean that TiVo's hookup diagram is for customers with cable modem-router combos (or "gateway" devices) that have MoCA capability built-in.

Therefore, in such a setup there should be no ethernet cable connection from the TiVo bridge to an ethernet port on the gateway as in your second diagram. But only to the single port on the Edge OTA.

So TiVo's illustration here is not for a physically separate modem and router as your setup uses. But for those using a MoCA enabled CATV gateway for internet access.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## snerd

HoTatII said:


> So TiVo's illustration here is not for a physically separate modem and router as your setup uses. But for those using a MoCA enabled CATV gateway for internet access.


It isn't that simple. TiVo's illustration is just flat out wrong on several levels. For one, most providers that supply internet using a cable modem will also have catv signals on the same coax, whether or not the customer is paying for TV. These signals will clash badly with the OTA signals. Even without this clash, the connection in the illustration will result in very little (if any) OTA signal reaching the TiVo. As configured, the OTA signals will flow "upstream" through both spitters and be absorbed by the ISP connection. Simply put, whoever created this diagram was rather clueless as to how splitters interact with RF signals.


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## snerd

Congratulations on figuring out that TiVo's illustration was bogus.


Parks said:


> Then, I just thought, what is a MoCA network Bridge trying to do? It's trying to combine a over-the-air (OTA) TV signal with an internet signal to produce a MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance) signal.


Just for clarification, MoCA doesn't mean "OTA/catv plus internet." MoCA essentially uses certain frequency bands to transport ethernet signals over coax. The OTA/catv signals use different frequency bands so that they don't clash with MoCA. It would be more accurate to think of MoCA as "WiFi over coax" while the OTA/catv signals share the same coax.



> So, I just connected the roof-top antenna coaxial cable to the coax input of the TiVo Bridge Plus, then connected a CAT-6 ethernet cable from my router to the RJ-45 input of the TiVo Bridge Plus.
> 
> The coaxial output from the TiVo Bridge Plus is connected to a MoCA rated (5-2300 MHz) 3-way splitter for sending MoCA signals to 3 of my TV's. My office TV connects wirelessly to the router via WiFi Mesh to retrieve a MoCA signal. See attached (0 - Moca Layout-page 2). It works flawlessly.


A couple of notes on your new configuration:

The PoE filter that connects to the modem isn't really doing anything useful and can be removed. Leaving it in place will give slightly weaker signals to the modem, but since there are no splitters between the ISP feed and the modem, you won't see any difference. Removing it would eliminate one potential point of failure in the system.

For best results, the PoE filter from the roof antenna should be connected directly to the coax port on the Bridge. Technically, this PoE filter might not really be necessary, but since you've already got it you might as well use it. The Bride has an internal diplexer that separates the MoCA signals from the OTA signals, and this keeps most of the MoCA signals off the antenna. Using the PoE filter on the Bridge ensures that much less MoCA signal reaches the antenna, but the diplexer inside acts in a similar manner.

With your current configuration, OTA signals should be reaching the bedroom and kitchen, but I'm guessing that you don't really need that, and those TVs are using their respective Mini's as their only means for getting OTA stuff. If that is true, then the OTA signal strength at the Edge could be improved significantly by connecting the coax from the roof antenna directly to the Edge, bypassing both the Bridge and the splitter. Since the Edge for Antenna does not have built-in MoCA, the OTA signals are the only signals that need to be on the coax that connects to the edge. This also means that the other coax would only have MoCA signals, so there would be perfect isolation between the OTA and MoCA signals, thus no PoE filter would be required (or even beneficial) in the new configuration. After that, the 3-way splitter could be replaced by a 2-way splitter, or the 3rd output of the splitter could be used for another Mini (office maybe?).


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## HoTatII

Ok, I guess all those are reasonable points for why the TiVo diagram is wrong.

And I'm also not sure the TiVo diagram would work with DOCSIS 3.1 service for internet anyhow ...

Because doesn't DOCSIS 3.1 use frequencies up to 1218 MHz in the initial stage and then up to 1794 MHz in a later one?

This not only means a standard POE filter on the incoming CATV line should actually be interfering somewhat with the downstream signals from the ISP. But worse the ISP's downstream signals are overlapping into the 1125-1675 MHz frequency range of the TiVo MoCA 2.0 bridge.

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## Parks

snerd said:


> Congratulations on figuring out that TiVo's illustration was bogus.
> 
> Just for clarification, MoCA doesn't mean "OTA/catv plus internet." MoCA essentially uses certain frequency bands to transport ethernet signals over coax. The OTA/catv signals use different frequency bands so that they don't clash with MoCA. It would be more accurate to think of MoCA as "WiFi over coax" while the OTA/catv signals share the same coax.
> 
> A couple of notes on your new configuration:
> 
> The PoE filter that connects to the modem isn't really doing anything useful and can be removed. Leaving it in place will give slightly weaker signals to the modem, but since there are no splitters between the ISP feed and the modem, you won't see any difference. Removing it would eliminate one potential point of failure in the system.
> 
> For best results, the PoE filter from the roof antenna should be connected directly to the coax port on the Bridge. Technically, this PoE filter might not really be necessary, but since you've already got it you might as well use it. The Bride has an internal diplexer that separates the MoCA signals from the OTA signals, and this keeps most of the MoCA signals off the antenna. Using the PoE filter on the Bridge ensures that much less MoCA signal reaches the antenna, but the diplexer inside acts in a similar manner.
> 
> With your current configuration, OTA signals should be reaching the bedroom and kitchen, but I'm guessing that you don't really need that, and those TVs are using their respective Mini's as their only means for getting OTA stuff. If that is true, then the OTA signal strength at the Edge could be improved significantly by connecting the coax from the roof antenna directly to the Edge, bypassing both the Bridge and the splitter. Since the Edge for Antenna does not have built-in MoCA, the OTA signals are the only signals that need to be on the coax that connects to the edge. This also means that the other coax would only have MoCA signals, so there would be perfect isolation between the OTA and MoCA signals, thus no PoE filter would be required (or even beneficial) in the new configuration. After that, the 3-way splitter could be replaced by a 2-way splitter, or the 3rd output of the splitter could be used for another Mini (office maybe?).


Snerd, I do appreciate your assessment and it all sounds reasonable, even though I do not fully understand some of the technical implications. So, I have redrawn my "REVISED" wiring diagram to confirm if I have understood correctly the configuration you are suggesting. Please advise, see attached


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## snerd

Parks said:


> Snerd, I do appreciate your assessment and it all sounds reasonable, even though I do not fully understand some of the technical implications. So, I have redrawn my "REVISED" wiring diagram to confirm if I have understood correctly the configuration you are suggesting. Please advise, see attached
> View attachment 57635


That's pretty close. You can run coax from the antenna directly to the Edge without going through a splitter. Any time an N-way splitter is used, the signal power is divided (roughly) by N, so you get the strongest signals by avoiding splitters or by using splitters that only have as many outputs as are actually needed. If you need to splice the coax, you can use a barrel connector to make the splice. The OUT port of the Bridge can be left disconnected, or you can cap it with a 75-ohm termination.

I'd be happy to answer any additional questions you have.


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## Parks

Snerd, My antenna feed into the house is in my office closet with the Modem, Router & TiVo Bridge Plus while the Edge is in the basement TV room. If I run the antenna directly to the Edge, I will not have an antenna coax to connect to the Bridge, hence the splitter.

Secondly, am I to understand that the ethernet connection to the Bridge Plus will facilitate getting the OTA signal to all of the other TiVo minis via their internet connections whether by ethernet or WiFi?

That would result in the following Diagram


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## HoTatII

Parks said:


> Snerd, My antenna feed into the house is in my office closet with the Modem, Router & TiVo Bridge Plus while the Edge is in the basement TV room. If I run the antenna directly to the Edge, I will not have an antenna coax to connect to the Bridge, hence the splitter.
> 
> Secondly, am I to understand that the ethernet connection to the Bridge Plus will facilitate getting the OTA signal to all of the other TiVo minis via their internet connections whether by ethernet or WiFi?
> 
> That would result in the following Diagram


If I may add ...

Your TiVo Minis are clients connected by ethernet over coax MoCA.

They don't require a connection to an OTA feed antenna through the internal diplexer of the TiVo bridge as you had before.

Only the output of the bridge to a 2-way splitter is needed by the Minis. The OTA input to the bridge may be left open or capped with a 75 ohm terminator cap.

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## Parks

HoTatII, I find your reply confusing.
I have three Minis:
(1) bedroom (Mini Lux - A95) - Coax & Ethernet
(2) Kitchen (Mini Lux - A95) - Coax & WiFi
(3) Office - (Mini - A93) Ethernet only

Are you saying that only the two Mini Lux (A95's) require connection to the coax output from the TiVo Bridge Plus? would you clarify for me?


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## HoTatII

In fact in the installation to my Edge OTA. The internal diplexer of the MoCA bridge I'm using for it (a Motorola MM 1000) recently went bad.

So I had to improvise an external one for it by using an old-style satellite/OTA diplexer to separate the D band MoCA signals on the incoming antenna coax out through the satellite port to the input of the MoCA bridge. From the coax OTA signals sent out through the OTA output port to the Edge OTA antenna input.

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## HoTatII

Parks said:


> HoTatII, I find your reply confusing.
> I have three Minis:
> (1) bedroom (Mini Lux - A95) - Coax & Ethernet
> (2) Kitchen (Mini Lux - A95) - Coax & WiFi
> (3) Office - (Mini - A93) Ethernet only
> 
> Are you saying that only the two Mini Lux (A95's) require connection to the coax output from the TiVo Bridge Plus? would you clarify for me?


Yes, just like the drawing in your post #6. ...

You just don't need the OTA antenna feed to go to a splitter with one output going to the bridge like that. But may remove that splitter altogether and just run the OTA coax straight to the ant. input of the Edge.

And either leave the OTA input to the bridge blank or cap it with a 75 ohm term. cap.

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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> I want to point out that the illustration of how to set-up a MoCA setup for the TiVo Edge for Antenna in the Tivo Knowledge base is flat out wrong, see attached (TiVo Knowledge - MoCA Setup - TiVo Edge for Antenna). It simply does not work. I set it up their way and it didn't work.
> 
> View attachment 57587


Disheartening that TiVo is still publishing that as a solution, mixing OTA antenna and cable signals on the coax, carrying over the flawed implementation from past diagrams. (see here for a past critique)



HoTatII said:


> Yeah, but I'd say in fairness to TiVo here ...
> 
> Even though in their original drawing they confusingly used the picture of a router. Notice it is labeled as a "gateway."


No fairness is warranted. TiVo has had years to correct their diagrams where they're mixing OTA antenna and cable signals on the same coax. (i.e. The issue of the gateway actually being a MoCA-capable gateway is trivial compared to the hassles associated with introducing both OTA and cable signals on the same coax plant.)


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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> Secondly, am I to understand that the ethernet connection to the Bridge Plus will facilitate getting the OTA signal to all of the other TiVo minis via their internet connections whether by ethernet or WiFi?


A few things to understand:

The only device that requires the raw OTA antenna signal in your setup is your DVR, the EDGE for Antenna.

The TiVo Mini's are network-only devices and receive all content streamed over their home network connection, whether the live-tuned or previously recorded OTA content from the host DVR, or content streamed via one of the supported apps. If networked via Ethernet, a Mini requires no coax connection.

An Ethernet or MoCA network connection is preferred for TiVo Mini's, but wireless can work if Ethernet or MoCA isn't possible.


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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> That would result in the following Diagram
> 
> View attachment 57639


That's taking things a bit far ... or not far enough.

Per the updated diagram, with nearly all your devices networked via Ethernet to your router, you have no need/use for MoCA, and so the TiVo Bridge Plus MoCA adapter serves no purpose.

Typically, a MoCA adapter connected to a LAN port on the router acts, effectively, as a MoCA access point -- similar to a router's built-in wireless access point -- providing the link/bridge between the router's LAN and MoCA clients connected to the shared coax. But if you have no MoCA clients, there's no need for a MoCA/Ethernet bridge (/access point).


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## krkaufman

Sidebar Re: this statement from the OP...


Parks said:


> the 2-tuner Edge doesn't work with the new mini's


Others have reported that the 2-tuner EDGE for Antenna *does* work w/ Mini's (i.e. can be set as their host DVR), even if the 2-tuner model lacks built-in MoCA functionality and having just 2 tuners makes conflict-free recording and live TV viewing problematic. The EDGE for Antenna would just need to be networked via Ethernet, either directly or via a MoCA adapter; same goes for the 4-tuner EDGE for Antenna.

My eyes/ears are open to hear otherwise Re: basic Mini compatibility of the 2-tuner EDGE for Antenna model.


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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> I have three Minis:
> (1) bedroom (Mini Lux - A95) - Coax & Ethernet
> (2) Kitchen (Mini Lux - A95) - *Coax* & WiFi
> (3) Office - (Mini - A93) Ethernet only


If the Kitchen Mini LUX can be connected to your coax plant, there *would* seem to be value in establishing a MoCA network on your shared coax, as a MoCA connection for the Mini would be preferable to using Wi-Fi.

_(And you can scrap the coax connection for the Bedroom Mini if it can be connected via Ethernet. It only needs one or the other to get network-connected.)_


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## krkaufman

krkaufman said:


> If the Kitchen Mini LUX can be connected to your coax plant, there *would* seem to be value in establishing a MoCA network on your shared coax, as a MoCA connection for the Mini would be preferable to using Wi-Fi.


To provide a MoCA connection for just the Kitchen Mini, your "2nd Revision" diagram could be further revised, using the TiVo Bridge Plus to provide a dedicated MoCA connection for just the Kitchen coax outlet's coax line. Something like the following:






​
edit: p.s. If you find you have MoCA needs for more than just the Kitchen Mini, then the little red "---coax---" line can increase in complexity to suit your needs.


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## krkaufman

As an aside, I see that you're using an *ASUS ZenWiFi XT8* as your router. Do you have additional XT8 mesh nodes? If so, how many, and how are they connected to the main XT8 router?


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## snerd

Parks said:


> Snerd, I do appreciate your assessment and it all sounds reasonable, even though I do not fully understand some of the technical implications. So, I have redrawn my "REVISED" wiring diagram to confirm if I have understood correctly the configuration you are suggesting. Please advise, see attached
> View attachment 57635


In your second revised diagram, the Bridge isn't actually doing anything since there are no coax connections.

It is important to understand that the Mini's don't need and can't use OTA signals. The Edge has tuners for converting the OTA signals into a digital data stream that is fed to the Mini's either through ethernet or MoCA, depending on how each Mini is configured. Although your system did work by passing the OTA signals through the Bridge and to the 3-way splitter, which fed OTA signals to the Edge and two Minis, the only OTA signal path that mattered was the path from the antenna to the Edge. The changes that I've recommended allow the OTA signal to be passed directly to the Edge, which results in stronger OTA signals, giving less chance of having signal issues due to bad weather or other factors.

Going back to the revised diagram in post #6, it uses two 2-way splitters for the coax connections. Coax from the antenna connects to the input of a two way splitter, and that splitter has two outputs that each connect to coax, one output going to the Bridge and one output going to the Edge. You can remove that splitter and use a barrel connector to join the coax from the antenna to the coax going to the Edge, then you will have a direct connection from the antenna to the Edge. The other length of coax from the splitter to the Bride can be removed, and the OUT port on the Bridge can be capped with a 75-ohm termination. The Bridge doesn't actually need any OTA signal, and it can provide MoCA signals from the IN port to the other splitter to form the MoCA network going to the bedroom and kitchen. If both of those Minis are then set to use MoCA, the ethernet/Wifi connections can be removed. Using MoCA for the Mini in the kitchen will probably give a more reliable connection, because TiVo and WiFi don't always play well together.

Since the closet with the modem, router and Bridge is in the office, it might be better to use a wired ethernet connection for the Mini in the office. But if the WiFi connection is working and doesn't give reception problems, you could leave it as-is.


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## Parks

krkaufman said:


> As an aside, I see that you're using an *ASUS ZenWiFi XT8* as your router. Do you have additional XT8 mesh nodes? If so, how many, and how are they connected to the main XT8 router?


KRKaufman, I am using the XT8 as my main Router, It is connected by Ethernet to two CT8's and then connected by WiFi to three other CT8's. My ISP is Comcast with a 1 GB service. The max wirelessly connected nodes recommended by ASUS tech support is four nodes, so by having 2 of my 5 nodes connected by ethernet, I stay below their node limits for wireless nodes. Using the XT8 as my main router has strengthened my entire network profile.

I needed all the nodes because one node was needed in my detached garage and another node was needed in my Honeybee Apiary to link up the bee hive monitoring equipment I have in those hives. The reason I need 3 nodes in my house was not due to the size of my house (less than 2,000 sg.ft.) but because it was built in the late 40's and has a massive brick chimney in the middle of the house and the walls are double layer drywall and my WiFi signals were never strong until I installed the ASUS mesh network. It's been one of the best investments (it ain't cheap) I have made in technology. Besides, the ASUS tech support is at the opposite end of the spectrum compared to TiVo.

By the way, I really appreciate your clear and truly helpful post to this thread. I was amazed at how much I really didn't understand about how a MoCA setup worked. I doubt I could explain much to anyone by myself, but this community has provided extremely helpful information that has allowed me to set-up my network in a much cleaner, simpler and functioning network. Thanks!


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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> this community has provided extremely helpful information that has allowed me to set-up my network in a much cleaner, simpler and functioning network


Emphasis on functioning!  There's good people here, truly; I've learned much over the years.

Re: the ASUS XT8 and CT8 nodes ...


Parks said:


> I am using the XT8 as my main Router, It is connected by Ethernet to two CT8's and then connected by WiFi to three other CT8's. ... The max wirelessly connected nodes recommended by ASUS tech support is four nodes, so by having 2 of my 5 nodes connected by ethernet, I stay below their node limits for wireless nodes.


Any reason you didn't link more than 2 nodes via Ethernet? (It would seem that the more linked via hard-wire the better, at least present day.)

If Ethernet availability was a roadblock to hard-wiring more than just the 2 nodes, note that MoCA could be used as the wired backhaul for any additional mesh nodes where there's coax availability - leaving a wireless backhaul only for those mesh nodes where neither Ethernet or MoCA connectivity is possible.

Further, if MoCA is a backhaul option for one or more mesh nodes, you may want to reconsider your choice of MoCA adapter ... possibly upgrading from the bonded MoCA 2.0 TiVo Bridge Plus (which is just a rebranded Actiontec ECB6200) to using MoCA 2.5 adapters. To be honest, if still within the return window for the TiVo Bridge Plus, it's difficult not to recommend an upgrade to a goCoax WF-803M MoCA 2.5 adapter, regardless, given the upgrade/price comparison. (As an aside, both adapters are overkill strictly for a TiVo Mini LUX MoCA connection, since the Mini LUX supports only standard MoCA 2.0.)


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## Parks

krkaufman said:


> Emphasis on functioning!  There's good people here, truly; I've learned much over the years.
> 
> Re: the ASUS XT8 and CT8 nodes ...
> 
> Any reason you didn't link more than 2 nodes via Ethernet? (It would seem that the more linked via hard-wire the better, at least present day.)
> 
> If Ethernet availability was a roadblock to hard-wiring more than just the 2 nodes, note that MoCA could be used as the wired backhaul for any additional mesh nodes where there's coax availability - leaving a wireless backhaul only for those mesh nodes where neither Ethernet or MoCA connectivity is possible.
> 
> Further, if MoCA is a backhaul option for one or more mesh nodes, you may want to reconsider your choice of MoCA adapter ... possibly upgrading from the bonded MoCA 2.0 TiVo Bridge Plus (which is just a rebranded Actiontec ECB6200) to using MoCA 2.5 adapters. To be honest, if still within the return window for the TiVo Bridge Plus, it's difficult not to recommend an upgrade to a goCoax WF-803M MoCA 2.5 adapter, regardless, given the upgrade/price comparison. (As an aside, both adapters are overkill strictly for a TiVo Mini LUX MoCA connection, since the Mini LUX supports only standard MoCA 2.0.)


KRKaufman , I would have used ethernet connection for all nodes if ethernet were available. The problem with these late 1940's hoses is that it is a real PIA trying to run ethernet and/or coax to all the desired locations.


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## Parks

My appreciation goes out to all who have contributed to this thread. Your willingness to participate and share your knowledge and insights has taught me a lot, but more importantly, it has allowed me to configure my network where all devices are now working flawlessly and as desired. Thank you so much.

Please see the attached "FINAL" diagram of my network as it is currently configured.


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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> I would have used ethernet connection for all nodes if ethernet were available. The problem with these late 1940's hoses is that it is a real PIA trying to run ethernet and/or coax to all the desired locations.


I'm interpreting that as "No coax outlets, either!" Alas...

Glad things are working.

edit: ... though the mystery remains how you managed 4 Ethernet connections from the XT8.


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## Parks

krkaufman said:


> I'm interpreting that as "No coax outlets, either!" Alas...
> 
> Glad things are working.
> 
> edit: ... though the mystery remains how you managed 4 Ethernet connections from the XT8.
> 
> View attachment 57686


krkaufman, connected to the XT8 is a (1) switch with 8 ports for office computers, printers, scanners, etc., (2) a homerun to a 10 port switch in the basement where the TiVo edge and a wired CT8 Node and all the other various TV equipment is connected and (3) an empty RJ45 jack.

See the attached JPG of my Mesh Network


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## krkaufman

Parks said:


> connected to the XT8 is a (1) switch with 8 ports for office computers, printers, scanners, etc., (2) a homerun to a 10 port switch in the basement where the TiVo edge and a wired CT8 Node and all the other various TV equipment is connected and (3) an empty RJ45 jack.


Yeah, figured at least one switch must be involved. That level of detail can be critical in troubleshooting some TiVo connectivity issues. Thanks for the reply.

Enjoy...


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## HoTatII

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, figured at least one switch must be involved. That level of detail can be critical in troubleshooting some TiVo connectivity issues. Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Enjoy...


One more question I have related to this thread that I mentioned in passing earlier that I'm confused about.

Even though the OP of this thread's setup is not doing it. I still see those with gigabit rate cable internet service using DOCSIS 3.1 combining MoCA signals and connecting conventional POE in-line filters on the same coax as the cable internet signals.

But I thought DOCSIS 3.1 was planing to eventually use frequencies as high as 1794 MHz (such as in this article here from '15 ,
https://www.broadbandtechreport.com...437152/moca-vs-docsis-31-whose-spectrum-is-it) which completely overlaps the 1125-1675 MHz MoCA band.

Has this frequency plan simply not been implemented yet or been abandoned and the DOCSIS 3.1 cable signals will remain below a 1000 MHz for the foreseeable future?

As I thought the days of combining MoCA signals with cable internet ones were really numbered years ago because of this. ...

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## krkaufman

HoTatII said:


> Has this frequency plan simply not been implemented yet or been abandoned and the DOCSIS 3.1 cable signals will remain below a 1000 MHz for the foreseeable future?


Answered your own question, there. There's an "initial rollout" range that runs up to 1218 MHz, but few, if any, are even doing that. The typical problem encountered is use of a DOCSIS 3.1 cable modem/gateway with active MoCA signals ... and the D3.1 modem being confused by MoCA signals within the D3.1 frequency range and becoming unstable. Quick fix ... use a prophylactic (i.e. a MoCA filter) on the modem's coax port to protect the D3.1 modem from the MoCA signals.

Just dealt w/ yet another user w/ this problem over on reddit, here.

And quoting one of the later posts to that thread...


> That said, if/when your provider actually _does_ begin using DOCSIS 3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz, they'll hopefully let you know and work with you to isolate the D3.1 signal from your MoCA-infused coax plant.


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## krkaufman

HoTatII said:


> I still see those with gigabit rate cable internet service using DOCSIS 3.1 combining MoCA signals and connecting conventional POE in-line filters on the same coax as the cable internet signals.


(1) You probably haven't seen many instances of DOCSIS 3.1 signals above 1002 MHz being integrated with a MoCA network. One roadblock to that is finding a "PoE" MoCA filter that would support the shifted pass band/stop band.

(2) The MoCA filter you mention isn't just installed "in-line" or "on the same coax"; they're installed directly on the DOCSIS 3.1 coax port to keep MoCA signals out of the modem.


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## HoTatII

Ok great ...

Thanks for clearing that up ...

But for cable modems that require a MoCA filter installed on their coax input jack. We're now talking about two POE filters aren't we?

One still needed on the main incoming CATV coax line to prevent back-feeding into the cable system and the other at the input to the modem?

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## krkaufman

HoTatII said:


> But for cable modems that require a MoCA filter installed on their coax input jack. We're now talking about two POE filters aren't we?


No. One MoCA filter at the point-of-entry (PoE), and one "protective/prophylactic" MoCA filter on the cable modem/gateway. (That's what you get for calling it, simply, a "POE filter." )

From the referenced reddit thread...


> If you find that your provider is NOT actually using DOCSIS 3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz, what you may have been experiencing was your MoCA network simply destabilizing a DOCSIS 3.1 cable modem/gateway ... where the quick fix (which allows full MoCA 2.5 throughput) is installing a MoCA filter directly on the modem/gateway's coax input port. _(This additional MoCA filter is distinct from the filter still required at the cable signal point-of-entry.)_
> ...
> As previously stated, you should be able to install a MoCA filter directly on the SB8200's coax input port _(keeping the "PoE" MoCA filter in place at your cable signal point-of-entry!)_,


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## gtwilmot

I too am trying to set up a MoCA network with my brand new EDGE. Would one of you experts out there be kind enough to comment on the schematic I'm about to build. Hopefully this will work for my situation, but I don't know what would happen if I wired it wrong.


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## krkaufman

gtwilmot said:


> my brand new EDGE


*EDGE for Cable* (CableCARD) or *EDGE for Antenna* (OTA)*?* (Guessing the latter; just want to make sure)


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## krkaufman

gtwilmot said:


> I too am trying to set up a MoCA network with my brand new EDGE. Would one of you experts out there be kind enough to comment on the schematic I'm about to build. Hopefully this will work for my situation, but I don't know what would happen if I wired it wrong.
> View attachment 58911





gtwilmot said:


> I too am trying to set up a MoCA network with my brand new EDGE. Would one of you experts out there be kind enough to comment on the schematic I'm about to build. Hopefully this will work for my situation, but I don't know what would happen if I wired it wrong.
> View attachment 58911


Addl questions/thoughts...

What's with the modem & router in a Frontier fiber optic setup? Do you actually have both a modem and router? If so, what are the model #s for each device? (I'm thinking you may have a MEB1100, FCA251 or some other MoCA WAN adapter, rather than a modem; and a NVG468MQ as your router.) 
Regardless, since your MoCA LAN won't be on that stretch of coax *and* because you're a FiOS fiber setup, you won't need/want a "PoE" MoCA filter on the coax stretch between the ONT ("black box") and the router location.

Do you _only_ need the MoCA signal extended to the Living Room location, where you have the second MoCA adapter installed? Or you have designs for pushing the MoCA signal to other rooms (MBR & GBR), at a later date?


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## krkaufman

gtwilmot said:


> I too am trying to set up a MoCA network with my brand new EDGE. Would one of you experts out there be kind enough to comment on the schematic I'm about to build. Hopefully this will work for my situation, but I don't know what would happen if I wired it wrong.
> View attachment 58911


Assuming you only need MoCA extended to the Living Room, something like the following would get that done, plus get the best possible antenna signal delivered to the EDGE box (using a passive splitter, anyway)...








​edit: p.s. Plus a few more of the many possible alternatives, a product of procrastination, should you want the MoCA signal spread a bit wider...



















​


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## HoTatII

Also in these diagrams be sure to use a "balanced" 3-way splitter with about a 5.5 db signal loss on each output. And not the cheaper "unbalanced" ones with around a 7-8 db loss on two of the outputs and 3.5-4.5 db loss on one of them.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman

HoTatII said:


> Also in these diagrams be sure to use a "balanced" 3-way splitter with about a 5.5 db signal loss on each output. And not the cheaper "unbalanced" ones with around a 7-8 db loss on two of the outputs and 3.5-4.5 db loss on one of them.


Where called for, certainly.

But in this diagram where the top-level splitter is a 3-way, sending the ANT signals to the devices connected through the "Office TV Cabinet" and ANT+MoCA to the bedrooms and Living Room, an unbalanced 3-way splitter would be preferred, with the EDGE, with its built-in split(s), connected to the low-loss output port.

And in the other cases with the TVs all connected via a secondary 3-way splitter, an unbalanced splitter might still be preferred, depending on what happens to the "TO MBR GBR" coax line beyond where it cuts off in the diagram. (i.e. if it is split to service two separate rooms, with this line then benefitting from a connection to the low-loss port)


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## gtwilmot

Mr Kaufman (I assume that's your name)...

Sorry for my delayed response to your quick submissions.

I really appreciate the time and effort you put into correcting and explaining changes to my original sketch. I've taken one of yours (primarily because of the closeness of the antenna to the TIVO) and simplified it some more. I don't believe I need two ethernet cables from the bookcase to the TV cabinet, so I have used an ethernet splitter. I also eliminated the antenna-only TV's from the picture because I believe the MoCA cables plugged directly into the TV's do not require adapters. Am I correct in saying that simply replacing the MOCA adapter with a TIVO Mini would allow TIVO at the living room TV? The RF TIVO remote that came with the EDGE will control the Office TIVO nicely.

Again, my sincere thank you for your efforts !!


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## krkaufman

gtwilmot said:


> I don't believe I need two ethernet cables from the bookcase to the TV cabinet, so I have used an ethernet splitter.


Using a network switch would make more sense, though I'm not sure what you mean, specifically, by "Ethernet splitter" or the "2x" in the diagram; the smallest network switch I've seen, IIRC, is 4 ports. And you'd need it to be a Gigabit Ethernet switch.



gtwilmot said:


> I also eliminated the antenna-only TV's from the picture because I believe the MoCA cables plugged directly into the TV's do not require adapters.


This doesn't make sense to me. How will these TVs be getting their OTA signal?

As for simplification, the Office TV Cabinet could be simplified further by using an unbalanced 3-way splitter as your top-level splitter, with the low-loss port connecting to the EDGE; the other outputs of the 3-way would connect to the Office TV and the MoCA filter attached to the MoCA adapter, as currently pictured. The 2-way splitter downstream of the MoCA adapter would be eliminated. For example:





​
Re:


gtwilmot said:


> Am I correct in saying that simply replacing the MOCA adapter with a TIVO Mini would allow TIVO at the living room TV?


...and...







Yes, this is true. But you'd be losing the wired connection for the Smart TV and its apps. The Smart TV's apps can probably function OK over wireless, but keeping them wired would help your overall wireless performance. To that end, an alternative to replacing the MoCA adapter with a Mini would be to add a network switch at the Living Room TV, connected to the MoCA adapter, allowing the future Mini and any other Ethernet-capable devices a hard-wired network connection -- while maintaining the OTA antenna feed, as a backup should a live tuner be unavailable via the TiVo setup.

If you *do* stick w/ the Mini/adapter swap approach, an antenna/satellite diplexer could be used in front of the Mini to effect the same signal diversion you have with the MoCA adapter's RF pass-through port, to keep the OTA antenna signal fed directly to the TV. (MoCA adapters use an internal diplexer to direct the signals rather than a simple splitter.)


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## gtwilmot

krkaufman said:


> Using a network switch would make more sense, though I'm not sure what you mean, specifically, by "Ethernet splitter" or the "2x" in the diagram; the smallest network switch I've seen, IIRC, is 4 ports. And you'd need it to be a Gigabit Ethernet switch.
> 
> This doesn't make sense to me. How will these TVs be getting their OTA signal?
> 
> As for simplification, the Office TV Cabinet could be simplified further by using an unbalanced 3-way splitter as your top-level splitter, with the low-loss port connecting to the EDGE; the other outputs of the 3-way would connect to the Office TV and the MoCA filter attached to the MoCA adapter, as currently pictured. The 2-way splitter downstream of the MoCA adapter would be eliminated. For example:
> View attachment 58970​
> Re:
> 
> ...and...
> View attachment 58962​
> Yes, this is true. But you'd be losing the wired connection for the Smart TV and its apps. The Smart TV's apps can probably function OK over wireless, but keeping them wired would help your overall wireless performance. To that end, an alternative to replacing the MoCA adapter with a Mini would be to add a network switch at the Living Room TV, connected to the MoCA adapter, allowing the future Mini and any other Ethernet-capable devices a hard-wired network connection -- while maintaining the OTA antenna feed, as a backup should a live tuner be unavailable via the TiVo setup.
> 
> If you *do* stick w/ the Mini/adapter swap approach, an antenna/satellite diplexer could be used in front of the Mini to effect the same signal diversion you have with the MoCA adapter's RF pass-through port, to keep the OTA antenna signal fed directly to the TV. (MoCA adapters use an internal diplexer to direct the signals rather than a simple splitter.)


-----------------------------------------------

Hi again, a while later. I understand what you have said and I thank you for it. The cost of the MoCA adapters (~$60 ea) has moved me away from them and to Powerline adapters. I just bought three of them on the Facebook Marketplace for $35. So the word "MoCA" is no longer in my dictionary. The TP-Link adapters are due within a couple of days. Thanks for your insight and advice.


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## mdavej

FWIW, the MoCA adapters I use cost me $10 and are far more reliable than Powerline. But I'm glad you found a cheap solution.


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