# custom rroms



## myklbear (Jan 12, 2015)

I have a S4 running a custom ROM that reports as unauthorized modification and an HP Touchpad running Android and neither will connect to my TiVo. Is there any workaround?


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

myklbear said:


> I have a S4 running a custom ROM that reports as unauthorized modification and an HP Touchpad running Android and neither will connect to my TiVo. Is there any workaround?


I'm running a custom ROM on my S5 and have had no issues talking to the TiVo. Plus before I had the S5 I had a S4 with a custom ROM that also communicated with the TiVo without issues.

I believe there is some type of setting that you have to set for the TiVo to talk to other devices.

Can somebody please chime in and let him know if that is correct?

Thanks.


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## myklbear (Jan 12, 2015)

Any further help with this?
I've been through TiVo menus and can't find anything.
Can someone suggest a ROM that has worked on Samsung S4?
TiVo support cannot support Error Code 300. (I do understand that limit....a nightmare for them)


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

myklbear said:


> Can someone suggest a ROM that has worked on Samsung S4?


Is this happening with the TiVo app? It works fine on my S5 and S4. I'm using Indie's Omega Rom.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

When you say it's not working, are you having an issue when trying to stream? Or does the app not work at all?


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## myklbear (Jan 12, 2015)

midas said:


> When you say it's not working, are you having an issue when trying to stream? Or does the app not work at all?


I have successfully loaded the Tivo app on both the S4 running Hyperdrive and HP Touchpad running Evervolv. Both apps 'seem' to function normally and can search/find Tivo and browse all around with the exception of watch on Phone/Tablet and I get the error message as shown in above.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

myklbear said:


> I have successfully loaded the Tivo app on both the S4 running Hyperdrive and HP Touchpad running Evervolv. Both apps 'seem' to function normally and can search/find Tivo and browse all around with the exception of watch on Phone/Tablet and I get the error message as shown in above.


That's the intended functionality. Tivo has decided to not allow streaming to rooted devices. You can unroot, even with a custom ROM, and it will work.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

midas said:


> That's the intended functionality. Tivo has decided to not allow streaming to rooted devices. You can unroot, even with a custom ROM, and it will work.


TiVO didn't "decide" to do that, they were required by the content providers to disable rooted devices because of perceived piracy risks. DirecTV's mobile app for Android has the exact same restriction.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Diana Collins said:


> TiVO didn't "decide" to do that, they were required by the content providers to disable rooted devices because of perceived piracy risks. DirecTV's mobile app for Android has the exact same restriction.


No, Tivo decided. I have no problem running HBO GO on my rooted device. I have no problem running XFiniity TV GO on my rooted device.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Just to add more data, Vudu, Hulu, YouTube and Netflix all let me play content on my rooted device. My Slingplayer works fine on my rooted device. 

This is a Tivo decision, plain and simple.


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## myklbear (Jan 12, 2015)

midas said:


> This is a Tivo decision, plain and simple.


While, from having a customer support background, I can understand why Tivo may not want to deal with 'hacker' issues, they are also snubbing the community that could most support and improve the advancement of Tivo.

I have a periodic similar problem with the Optimum app, that does not load programs or does, but eventually, it does work even with a rooted and custom Rom device.

To just uniformly look for some tag that indicates stock or rooted or custom is a gross over-management of restrictions. Most custom Rom are more tested by knowledgeable individuals than factory [which are just tested to be 'safe'] and are constantly adjusted and improved. There could be a simple test for compatibility and only error down the process with discrete error codes coming from a real failure that they could choose to not support. It would be better to state they do not support custom Roms or rooting, but allow good Roms to actually work and fall back on their 'statement' only after a real failure.

The fact that some report success using custom Roms which implies rooting, means that it is possible to have Tivo app work. Hopefully more suggestions with some background can be offered.

BTW, I now have one HP Touchpad running Lollypop 5.0.2. If that is possible, then Tivo functionality should be possible. But Tivo does not work on even this wonder.


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## myklbear (Jan 12, 2015)

Diana Collins said:


> TiVO didn't "decide" to do that, they were required by the content providers to disable rooted devices because of perceived piracy risks. DirecTV's mobile app for Android has the exact same restriction.


Hi Diana,
I appreciate your knowledgeable input, even though contested above, it seems to come from a knowing place. Not to challenge you but could you add anything to your signature in some way to expand on the last years of your expertise?

Times change, attitudes and risks change, requirements and fears change. Do you speak from current direct experience with Tivo? <18 months to next readjustment.....


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

midas said:


> Just to add more data, Vudu, Hulu, YouTube and Netflix all let me play content on my rooted device. My Slingplayer works fine on my rooted device.
> 
> This is a Tivo decision, plain and simple.


None of those people have to deal with Cable Labs. In fact, except for Sling Media (which doesn't need anyone's permission), they have direct contracts with the content providers. Believe what you like.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

myklbear said:


> Hi Diana,
> I appreciate your knowledgeable input, even though contested above, it seems to come from a knowing place. Not to challenge you but could you add anything to your signature in some way to expand on the last years of your expertise?
> 
> Times change, attitudes and risks change, requirements and fears change. Do you speak from current direct experience with Tivo? <18 months to next readjustment.....


I have many contacts in the business, from years of running websites related to satellite TV. I know several people that have moved on to companies like Comcast and Cablevision. They have told me how paranoid the content providers are about downloads of content. They are less concerned about streaming, but even there they are very difficult to work with.

In any event, my "credentials" are no more or less valid than anyone else's on this forum. From what "inside knowledge" do others speak? Simply saying "these services work why doesn't TiVo's" is making a huge set of assumptions about issues they have no knowledge.

I'm not trying to prove anything...just relating what I know to be true.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Tivo decided to live by the rules as set forth to them. How's that?


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

I've been lied to by many of the companies I worked for in the past. I've even been fed lies to tell our customers. It's not unusual at all. But eventually you have to let logic be your guide. 

Cablelabs is not a content provider. 

Comcast not only has to deal with Cablelabs, they are also content providers.

Nobody is more protective of their content than HBO.

Content providers have been fighting Tivo for years about being able to skip commercials.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

midas said:


> I've been lied to by many of the companies I worked for in the past. I've even been fed lies to tell our customers. It's not unusual at all. But eventually you have to let logic be your guide.
> 
> Cablelabs is not a content provider.
> 
> ...


And none of these let you download to your device. I realize that the TiVo app for Android doesn't either, but I strongly suspect it will (and what do you think the odds are that download is not enabled yet because its security parameters are being reviewed by Cablelabs?). Tivo does not arbitrarily limit functionality. There is reason the IOS app doesn't stream over LTE too (and in this case it is Apple that sets the rules). I'm not a TiVo fangirl, but they deserve being taken to task for the things THEY do, not for the things forced upon them.

Besides, if they implemented the same checks that DirecTV made, it is very simple to make your device appear to be not rooted (for DirecTV's app all you had to do was delete the SU executable).


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Diana Collins said:


> And none of these let you download to your device. I realize that the TiVo app for Android doesn't either, but I strongly suspect it will (and what do you think the odds are that download is not enabled yet because its security parameters are being reviewed by Cablelabs?).


Please do not introduce a strawman into this. Nobody is talking about downloading.



> Tivo does not arbitrarily limit functionality.


I don't believe anybody said it was arbitrary. But they made a decision that does limit funcitonality.



> There is reason the IOS app doesn't stream over LTE too (and in this case it is Apple that sets the rules). I'm not a TiVo fangirl, but they deserve being taken to task for the things THEY do, not for the things forced upon them.


Another strawman. Has nothing to do with the argument at hand.



> Besides, if they implemented the same checks that DirecTV made, it is very simple to make your device appear to be not rooted (for DirecTV's app all you had to do was delete the SU executable).


It's not really that simple. Getting root back isn't as trivial because once you lose root you can't just restore the SU executable.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

midas said:


> Please do not introduce a strawman into this. Nobody is talking about downloading.
> 
> I don't believe anybody said it was arbitrary. But they made a decision that does limit funcitonality.
> 
> ...


But the ability to download is relevant. It is the same app.

Perhaps you have a better a word for a decision made without a stated reason (which is what you seemed to saying), but I call that "arbitrary."

I simply used Apple's requirements for their particular style of dynamic data rate support as an example of a feature in the Android app that is not in the IOS version and which might, at first glance, appear to also be "TiVo's decision."

It was exactly that simple for the DirecTV app. Delete SU and the app worked on a rooted device, then re-download SU when you're done. In fact, the app wouldn't run on my non-rooted phone until I realized that I had accidentally restored SU to the phone (my previous phone was rooted). In fact, IIRC, there is even an app in the app store to "hide root" and that is what it does. I make no claim that it is that easy for the TiVo app (I have not rooted my S5).


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Diana Collins said:


> But the ability to download is relevant. It is the same app.


I disagree. I can browse my todo list. I can look at my shows. I can schedule recordings. It's all the same app. The only thing I can't do is stream. Downloading is irrelevant to the discussion.



> Perhaps you have a better a word for a decision made without a stated reason (which is what you seemed to saying), but I call that "arbitrary."


I would call it making a decision, exactly as I did in my first post.



> I simply used Apple's requirements for their particular style of dynamic data rate support as an example of a feature in the Android app that is not in the IOS version and which might, at first glance, appear to also be "TiVo's decision."


I have no interest in Apple products so I'll have to take your word on that.



> It was exactly that simple for the DirecTV app. Delete SU and the app worked on a rooted device, then re-download SU when you're done. In fact, the app wouldn't run on my non-rooted phone until I realized that I had accidentally restored SU to the phone (my previous phone was rooted). In fact, IIRC, there is even an app in the app store to "hide root" and that is what it does. I make no claim that it is that easy for the TiVo app (I have not rooted my S5).


Root cloaking and hiding apps to not work for the Tivo app. If you're using SuperSu you need to use the unroot option within SuperSU and then reboot. To get it back you need to reboot to recovery and reflash the SuperSU zip file. If your device has a locked bootloader and you can't get a custom recovery on your device you'll need to go through whatever method you did originally to root it.

If Tivo had provided lip service to checking root, the same way they do with the 30 second skip, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But people have been trying to find a way to bypass this check since the day the app was released. Tivo went out of their way to punish rooted users.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

midas said:


> ...Tivo went out of their way to punish rooted users.


Okay. No point in continuing this. Have a nice day.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> They have told me how paranoid the content providers are about downloads of content.


Understandably so (as much as I would like to be able to easily and freely download content).


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> Tivo decided to live by the rules as set forth to them. How's that?


The problem is that TiVo isn't big enough to avoid getting bullied by these paranoid nutjobs at the content providers.



Diana Collins said:


> There is reason the IOS app doesn't stream over LTE too (and in this case it is Apple that sets the rules). I'm not a TiVo fangirl, but they deserve being taken to task for the things THEY do, not for the things forced upon them.


That's a bit different. You can stream over LTE, you just have to have some lower bitrate options or something like that.



Mikeguy said:


> Understandably so (as much as I would like to be able to easily and freely download content).


And of course, the paranoid nutjobs are too blind to see the fact that this type of bad behavior just pushes people to torrent stuff instead.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> And of course, the paranoid nutjobs are too blind to see the fact that this type of bad behavior just pushes people to torrent stuff instead.


But then, I guess a question remains, if they didn't take the actions that they're taking, would they lose even more compared to the torrenting that takes place.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Nobody has to defeat copy protection in order to make the source files you will find on a torrent site. The whole thing is a waste of time.

I have the means to make perfect 720p, 1080i, or 1080p .mkv files from anything on my TiVo, whether copy protected or not. And I didn't buy anything extra in order to have that capability.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Exactly the point - anyone can download kmttg today and load up all the non-CP'd vids they want from Tivo to a rooted phone or tablet (or stream them from Plex if you don't want to load them). The paranoid delusionists that control CableLabs decided that therefore it makes perfect sense to block streaming of the exact same stuff to those devices.


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## skid71 (Mar 20, 2013)

Whatever the reason...it stinks

I'm visually impaired.
I MUST root my devices to modify them for my visual impairment.
I lose the ability to watch my legally-sourced programming in places other than my home.

It's bull feces

And ... COMPLETELY off topic
I still can't get Slowbiscuit to share his wish-list settings for nascar. I saw he posted here so throwing a line.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

slowbiscuit said:


> Exactly the point - anyone can download kmttg today and load up all the non-CP'd vids they want from Tivo to a rooted phone or tablet (or stream them from Plex if you don't want to load them). The paranoid delusionists that control CableLabs decided that therefore it makes perfect sense to block streaming of the exact same stuff to those devices.


Yes, the best way to prevent me from downloading your stuff is to force me to download your stuff. Makes much more sense than just letting me stream it.

Sometimes common sense isn't so common.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> But then, I guess a question remains, if they didn't take the actions that they're taking, would they lose even more compared to the torrenting that takes place.


Actually, that's not how it works at all. It has been proven over and over that convenient, legitimate access wins out over pirating more often than not. Putting up DRM and roadblocks in front of the content makes it more likely to be pirated.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I think it may depend upon what that convenient, legitimate access is. If it's in a form that allows free subsequent distribution, I can see the concern.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> I think it may depend upon what that convenient, legitimate access is. If it's in a form that allows free subsequent distribution, I can see the concern.


No. That logic makes absolutely no sense. Heavy-handed DRM is pointless, as it can only drive legitimate customers away from the product/service. Weak DRM doesn't increase the risk of piracy one iota, because the stuff is all on PirateBay anyway. Heavy-handed DRM and restrictive licensing models that are pushed by a bunch of clueless idiots who are living in the '90's and haven't yet noticed this whole broadband internet thing just push more people to TPB and the like. Serves them right.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> No. That logic makes absolutely no sense. Heavy-handed DRM is pointless, as it can only drive legitimate customers away from the product/service. Weak DRM doesn't increase the risk of piracy one iota, because the stuff is all on PirateBay anyway. Heavy-handed DRM and restrictive licensing models that are pushed by a bunch of clueless idiots who are living in the '90's and haven't yet noticed this whole broadband internet thing just push more people to TPB and the like. Serves them right.


Actually, we just disagree and it's your own logic that is faulty, as you put it.  Strong DRM that is effective but not inconvenient protects the content provider and doesn't drive a legitimate customer away. And even weak DRM, where not inconvenient, can be effective--not all people will go to Pirate Bay (indeed, most people probably will not), including for reasons of ethics/honesty or fear of matters. But we're taking a left turn on this thread--beliefs noted.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> Actually, we just disagree and it's your own logic that is faulty, as you put it.  Strong DRM that is effective but not inconvenient protects the content provider and doesn't drive a legitimate customer away. And even weak DRM, where not inconvenient, can be effective--not all people will go to Pirate Bay (indeed, most people probably will not), including for reasons of ethics/honesty or fear of matters. But we're taking a left turn on this thread--beliefs noted.


So, is this convenient or inconvenient DRM in your opinion?

I think the original point that started this tangent was that this is self-defeating. If I could stream on my rooted device I (me personally and most people) would have no desire to actually download the contents. But because I can't do that the only way for me to watch on my rooted tablet is to download to my PC and then transfer to my device.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Actually, we just disagree and it's your own logic that is faulty, as you put it.  Strong DRM that is effective but not inconvenient protects the content provider and doesn't drive a legitimate customer away. And even weak DRM, where not inconvenient, can be effective--not all people will go to Pirate Bay (indeed, most people probably will not), including for reasons of ethics/honesty or fear of matters. But we're taking a left turn on this thread--beliefs noted.


No. You're wrong, and you have been proven wrong over and over. DRM only hurts the legitimate users, or users who try to be legitimate users, and the content is virtually always available on pirate sites anyway. And if someone wouldn't pirate the content, then they're not going to pirate it just because there's no DRM on it.



midas said:


> I think the original point that started this tangent was that this is self-defeating. If I could stream on my rooted device I (me personally and most people) would have no desire to actually download the contents. But because I can't do that the only way for me to watch on my rooted tablet is to download to my PC and then transfer to my device.


Or just torrent it. Although in that case, if you've already paid for the content legitimately, then it really doesn't matter anyway, it just undermines the legitimacy of their system.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

DRM only hurts when not done well, ideally--the issue often being, it isn't. But thank you for your categorical pronouncement. No further purpose to discuss.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

What's worse for the content providers is that if they allowed Tivo streaming they'd still have commercials in the shows. When people turn to torrents to avoid this stupid BS for content they've already paid for, the commercials are already cut out.

As I said, paranoid delusion that only serves to piss off the people that can't figure this out. Everyone else just routes around the censorship.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

skid71 said:


> And ... COMPLETELY off topic
> I still can't get Slowbiscuit to share his wish-list settings for nascar. I saw he posted here so throwing a line.


http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/199

Title keyword: NASCAR Racing
Keywords: -PRACTICE, -QUALIFYING
New Only, 1 hour pad, auto-record. Gets all the races (only).

Not that difficult.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> What's worse for the content providers is that if they allowed Tivo streaming they'd still have commercials in the shows. When people turn to torrents to avoid this stupid BS for content they've already paid for, the commercials are already cut out.
> 
> As I said, paranoid delusion that only serves to piss off the people that can't figure this out. Everyone else just routes around the censorship.


Exactly. People are creative. They will find a way, even if it's not the way that the content owners envisioned.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Bigg said:


> Exactly. People are creative. They will find a way, even if it's not the way that the content owners envisioned.


DRM has never been about the highly technical individual, it is about the masses!

Create enough road bumps to make it complicated and all your casual pirates drop away like flys.

Then you can use the legal system to kill of the bulk of the diehards! Doesn't take many lawsuits before it starts to really have an impact.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...onsumers-For-Illegal-Downloads-257608961.html

Oh, you will say - people will find a way - and they will... But the strategies are effective in keeping piracy at bay.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

bradleys said:


> DRM has never been about the highly technical individual, it is about the masses!
> 
> Create enough road bumps to make it complicated and all your casual pirates drop away like flys.


The pirated content is already out there. So why bother?



> Then you can use the legal system to kill of the bulk of the diehards! Doesn't take many lawsuits before it starts to really have an impact.


No, you only get the dumb ones who aren't using VPNs. The sophisticated users like myself all run VPNs.



> Oh, you will say - people will find a way - and they will... But the strategies are effective in keeping piracy at bay.


No, they aren't. The only effective strategy is to offer the content at a reasonable price, without draconian DRM, and in every country where there is a market.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I can download any show from any channel in any country in the world, usually about 3-5 minutes after the show has finished airing, if not before it even airs.

Keeping me from having my recorded show on both my TiVo and iPad at the same time is just silliness.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Arcady said:


> I can download any show from any channel in any country in the world, usually about 3-5 minutes after the show has finished airing, if not before it even airs.
> 
> Keeping me from having my recorded show on both my TiVo and iPad at the same time is just silliness.


Exactly my point.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I don't disagree at all as to the often unwarranted hassles and complications put into place by the content providers and technology, nor as to how easily content often can be obtained. But as to the latter point, many people just wouldn't go that route, as mentioned above, and the DRM speed bumps serve their purpose, if even only to a small degree, in that regard. Now, a different matter as to whether the frustration and upset it all causes is outweighed.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> I don't disagree at all as to the often unwarranted hassles and complications put into place by the content providers and technology, nor as to how easily content often can be obtained. But as to the latter point, many people just wouldn't go that route, as mentioned above, and the DRM speed bumps serve their purpose, if even only to a small degree, in that regard. Now, a different matter as to whether the frustration and upset it all causes is outweighed.


The DRM doesn't serve its purpose, as the people who aren't going to get around DRM or torrent it aren't going to do anything else with it, and the people who can get around DRM or get it another way, will anyways. DRM is counter-productive.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Bigg said:


> The DRM doesn't serve its purpose, as the people who aren't going to get around DRM or torrent it aren't going to do anything else with it, and the people who can get around DRM or get it another way, will anyways. DRM is counter-productive.


Especially in the case of the Tivo streaming app. If I want to watch something on my phone that I've already recorded on my Tivo it should be simple. Instead, if that's what I want to do, I have to download it or get it off my Tivo and then load it on my phone.

The new motto, I guess, to stop piracy we must force piracy.

Makes perfect sense to me.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Bigg said:


> The pirated content is already out there. So why bother?
> 
> No, you only get the dumb ones who aren't using VPNs. The sophisticated users like myself all run VPNs.
> 
> No, they aren't. The only effective strategy is to offer the content at a reasonable price, without draconian DRM, and in every country where there is a market.


You are making my point for me... Most pinheads don't know what a VPN is let alone know how to set one up. DRM seems to be doing something right - it annoys you. And I am not trying to be flippant.

DRM on a DVD / BD stopped 90% of the people from copying the disks. The other 10% payed for a ripper and made copies without a problem. What would the numbers be without DRM?

Moving to streaming strategies makes it even harder for the average bonehead to pirate content.

As for Pirate bay and the other torrent sites - the legal system is making their world tough! Is Pirate bay back up? It was down again the last time I looked.

My point is - DRM does stop the casual and less technically inclined people. Your point that there will always be ways around DRM, is true but not really relevant.

Enough roadblocks and your casual users give up pretty quickly. Enough lawsuits of 14 year olds using their parents computers and you get the scare factor in place.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I couldn't have said it better, bradleys. ^ +1.


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## h2oskierc (Dec 16, 2010)

Mikeguy said:


> I couldn't have said it better, bradleys. ^ +1.


+2. I won't waste my time with trying to defeat it. No need too.

I was a professinal photographer for many years. I take copyright seriously...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

skid71 said:


> Whatever the reason...it stinks
> 
> I'm visually impaired.
> I MUST root my devices to modify them for my visual impairment.
> ...


Makes me wonder if there's an approach to getting this resolved involving an ADA complaint.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

midas said:


> Especially in the case of the Tivo streaming app. If I want to watch something on my phone that I've already recorded on my Tivo it should be simple. Instead, if that's what I want to do, I have to download it or get it off my Tivo and then load it on my phone.
> 
> The new motto, I guess, to stop piracy we must force piracy.
> 
> Makes perfect sense to me.


Pretty much. The people in charge just don't get it.



bradleys said:


> You are making my point for me... Most pinheads don't know what a VPN is let alone know how to set one up. DRM seems to be doing something right - it annoys you. And I am not trying to be flippant.


If DRM is annoying, then it has completely failed. The people who want to pirate will figure out how- including VPNs.



> DRM on a DVD / BD stopped 90% of the people from copying the disks. The other 10% payed for a ripper and made copies without a problem. What would the numbers be without DRM?


The 90% who couldn't figure out how to use something based on DeCSS wouldn't be able to figure out how to copy the disc anyway, so in this regards, DRM is pretty useless.



> Moving to streaming strategies makes it even harder for the average bonehead to pirate content.


The most important part is making it available legally in a convenient and reasonably priced way. Most people don't pirate stuff that's available through Netflix, because they can just get it on Netflix, so why bother pirating it?



> As for Pirate bay and the other torrent sites - the legal system is making their world tough! Is Pirate bay back up? It was down again the last time I looked.


Yes, various government have been harassing TPB for a while, imprisoning it's founders and operators, etc. However, it's up right now, and even when it wasn't, torrent traffic barely dropped globally, as there are a gazillion other torrent sites out there.



> My point is - DRM does stop the casual and less technically inclined people. Your point that there will always be ways around DRM, is true but not really relevant.


The people who are going to pirate are going to pirate. The people who weren't going to pirate, aren't going to pirate. DRM can only serve to discourage legitimate buyers from enjoying the fair use of what they have bought.



> Enough roadblocks and your casual users give up pretty quickly. Enough lawsuits of 14 year olds using their parents computers and you get the scare factor in place.


And the people who want to pirate just use VPNs. What kills piracy is legitimate access. Spotify, Slacker, and Pandora have reduced music piracy. Netflix has reduced piracy of what's available on it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> The people who are going to pirate are going to pirate. The people who weren't going to pirate, aren't going to pirate. DRM can only serve to discourage legitimate buyers from enjoying the fair use of what they have bought.


Sorry, but you keep on ignoring the great big group in the middle who might grab content if it was easy to do or not discouraged but DRM serves to prevent them from doing so. That's part of bradleys' point.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, but you keep on ignoring the great big group in the middle who might grab content if it was easy to do or not discouraged but DRM serves to prevent them from doing so. That's part of bradleys' point.


And do what with it? Put it on their phone or something? They already bought it, and it's not like they're going to seed it on bittorrent, everything is already out there, irregardless of the DRM.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Was talking the general purpose of DRM, not necessarily on a TiVo--where people don't already own the content and DRM discourages them from obtaining it without payment or other permission. This might explain the different points being made.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, but you keep on ignoring the great big group in the middle who might grab content if it was easy to do or not discouraged but DRM serves to prevent them from doing so. That's part of bradleys' point.


Yeah and my bro who's totally not tech-inclined (and is in that great big group) somehow watches all the pirated content he wants with a browser on his laptop. He's always telling me about the latest movies way before the DVD/BD gets released.

The war is over, they lost when folks like him can stream anything. They just haven't figured out how to properly monetize the new model yet.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

And my guess is, your brother is more tech. savvy than the average consumer and is not concerned about certain issues. The road bump remains, IMHO.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah and my bro who's totally not tech-inclined (and is in that great big group) somehow watches all the pirated content he wants with a browser on his laptop. He's always telling me about the latest movies way before the DVD/BD gets released.
> 
> The war is over, they lost when folks like him can stream anything. They just haven't figured out how to properly monetize the new model yet.


That's a good point. These streaming sites, while poor quality compared to torrents, are much more accessible, and taking them down is like playing whac-a-mole.


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## davidg716 (Jan 20, 2015)

This is now a moot point, streaming works fine to rooted devices with the new android 3.0 app


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Bravo!!!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> And my guess is, your brother is more tech. savvy than the average consumer and is not concerned about certain issues. The road bump remains, IMHO.


Absolutely 100% false. He doesn't know jack about PCs and asks me to fix simple stuff. He does however have friends that can point him to stuff he can type in.

You really have no idea how much stuff is out there that is easy to find and stream illegally.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Great--but he's the type who will go to friends to get it. Others won't, with DRM speed bumps. And yes, I'm aware that content can be achieved easily enough.


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## skid71 (Mar 20, 2013)

davidg716 said:


> This is now a moot point, streaming works fine to rooted devices with the new android 3.0 app


Can you somehow confirm this?
I updated the app on my Nexus 9 yesterday, tried to stream a show and received the same old message I've always received.

Anyone else successfully streaming on a rooted device?


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

skid71 said:


> Can you somehow confirm this?
> I updated the app on my Nexus 9 yesterday, tried to stream a show and received the same old message I've always received.
> 
> Anyone else successfully streaming on a rooted device?


See my post in the other thread.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> That's a good point. These streaming sites, while poor quality compared to torrents, are much more accessible, and taking them down is like playing whac-a-mole.


There is a sight called *popcorn time* that streams BD quality new (and old) movies (TV shows) at 1080p or 720p your choice, it can take from 15 minutes to 5 hours to get the movie and no 5.1 sound yet, I like to know what the tech people think about that sight, I am afraid to use it myself, but it does have a nice UI.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> There is a sight called *popcorn time* that streams BD quality new (and old) movies (TV shows) at 1080p or 720p your choice, it can take from 15 minutes to 5 hours to get the movie and no 5.1 sound yet, I like to know what the tech people think about that sight, I am afraid to use it myself, but it does have a nice UI.


That's obviously not real streaming, that's bittorrent-based. It's using a sequential algorithm to get the beginning of the movie first, but it's still ultimately hyperdistribution.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

davidg716 said:


> This is now a moot point, streaming works fine to rooted devices with the new android 3.0 app


I just updated my Touchpad this morning and it didn't appear to be working (got the pop up about not using with rooted device). Need to doublecheck app version #

Edit: Confirmed that w/Cyanogenmod ROM on my Touchpad, streaming doesn't work with TiVo app 3.0.0-799276


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## skid7101 (Mar 17, 2015)

Still not working with my Nexus 9, but kind of working on my G3. At times it just sits on the login screen, other times it plays for a while then gets in a buffer loop.


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