# New TiVo Commercial Skip



## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I am convinced that TiVo made a deal with the networks for a new commercial skip system. The only "commercials" that are shown after a "skip" are promos for network shows. I'm guessing the deal TiVo made is "program in skip data in your shows, but we'll accomodate one or several network promos being shown along with the regualar program content."

Has anyone else noticed this?


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## Hercules67 (Dec 8, 2007)

Yes, completely noticed this and I was going to post something about it, but you beat me to it.

At this point, SKIP MODE is completely useless.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Hercules67 said:


> At this point, SKIP MODE is completely useless.


That ain't so!!!

It should 'matter NOT' how it's applied but that it's 'applied/enabled'! There seems to be things that have randomly worked to use. The SKIP and then a quick use of the 'ADVANCE/30 SKIP' seems to work often. If it's 'NOT APPLIED' there's no way to determine it's value to you!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Even with non-SM programs, it's common to have a network promo as the last commercial before the main program begins.

That said, SM on Friday, Saturday and Sunday seems to not be part of the SM marked programs.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Comskip* also often fails to skip promos. I think it sees the network/station logo and can't tell whether the promo is part of the show or not. So in Channels DVR after a show is processed I often go into the web UI and manually delete promo segments, especially the really long ones injected into the middle of a show to promote season premiers. 

This makes me wonder how much of TiVo indexing is automated too. Apparently they don't try to slice out the promos, but I have to say that is not always easy.

*Comskip is an open source automated commercial indexing program used by Channels DVR, Sage TV, Beyond TV, and MCE for Windows Media Center among others.


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## Hercules67 (Dec 8, 2007)

WVZR1 said:


> That ain't so!!!
> 
> It should 'matter NOT' how it's applied but that it's 'applied/enabled'! There seems to be things that have randomly worked to use. The SKIP and then a quick use of the 'ADVANCE/30 SKIP' seems to work often. If it's 'NOT APPLIED' there's no way to determine it's value to you!


In what way?

Saturday, replaying "La Brea" Episode 2, there were two times when after SKIP commercials continued for an additional 2 minutes or more. It did not matter whether it was a network promo with station identification, OR, just regular commercials.

No matter how it's set, their auto system should know when the marker for the actual show is.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Hercules67 said:


> In what way?
> 
> Saturday, replaying "La Brea" Episode 2, there were two times when after SKIP commercials continued for an additional 2 minutes or more. It did not matter whether it was a network promo with station identification, OR, just regular commercials.


That particular 'selection' sorta proves my point BUT also yours. SM was certainly 'botched' but had it NOT been 'applied/enabled' you wouldn't have been able to critique it!!

These buttons do still work!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hercules67 said:


> In what way?
> 
> Saturday, replaying "La Brea" Episode 2, there were two times when after SKIP commercials continued for an additional 2 minutes or more. It did not matter whether it was a network promo with station identification, OR, just regular commercials.
> 
> No matter how it's set, their auto system should know when the marker for the actual show is.


Yeah, and I think that's the problem...it's gone from humans to automation, which just isn't as good at recognizing what is show and what is not.

What's the old saying? Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity?


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

MScottC said:


> Has anyone else noticed this?


 Yes, it's been working this way for me also&#8230;. I hit the 30 second skip forward button and it comes pretty close to the beginning of the next segment&#8230;. Sometimes I have to back up one time. Not completely auto skip but it gets us pretty close.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Just another nail for the TiVo coffin...


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

I figured skip not working as advertised was just more TiVo business as usual...now that you mention it, there does seem to be some correlation with the premature end of skips and the start of network promos.



tommiet said:


> Just another nail for the TiVo coffin...


Indeed.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

MScottC said:


> I am convinced that TiVo made a deal with the networks for a new commercial skip system. The only "commercials" that are shown after a "skip" are promos for network shows. I'm guessing the deal TiVo made is "program in skip data in your shows, but we'll accomodate one or several network promos being shown along with the regualar program content."
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this?


Seems to be predominantly CBS for me and it also seems to be to promote a new show. But I like your theory the new skip system they said was coming is some kind of agreement with the networks.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

I guess in theory promos for other shows one the network aren't commercials although they seem the same to me. I would suspect network (s) say skip OK but not their promos


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ManeJon said:


> I guess in theory promos for other shows one the network aren't commercials although they seem the same to me. I would suspect network (s) say skip OK but not their promos


And again, I doubt very, very much that the networks have anything to do with this. I doubt that TiVo even registers on their radar, or that it has for many years now.

I think it's purely a technical consequence of going from human beings to automation.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think it's purely a technical consequence of going from human beings to automation.


I agree. I have my commercials clobbered all the time. I laugh when I see the ads for the Stream 4k. There is a On Demand button on the remote. No Skip button.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

It’s a technical glitch from when they automated. Period.

There is no way in any universe any network paid a minuscule player like TiVo any amount of money to prevent a network promo from being skipped but continued to allow a paid ad to be.

No. Way. At. All.

Your theory is conspiracy, it’s just a technical glitch.

sheesh


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

MScottC said:


> I am convinced that TiVo made a deal with the networks for a new commercial skip system. The only "commercials" that are shown after a "skip" are promos for network shows. I'm guessing the deal TiVo made is "program in skip data in your shows, but we'll accomodate one or several network promos being shown along with the regualar program content."
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this?


I assumed it was because I padded some of these recordings. But, nothing about your hypothesis surprises me.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Well - 11:35 EDT and the majority of my recordings for this evening 'prime time' have SKIP applied! 4 of 6! I believe La Brea & The Resident seem to be missing still.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

cwoody222 said:


> It's a technical glitch from when they automated. Period.
> 
> There is no way in any universe any network paid a minuscule player like TiVo any amount of money to prevent a network promo from being skipped but continued to allow a paid ad to be.
> 
> ...


I don't see it as a technical glitch. This is on purpose. I have no idea how it came to be concerning any money. Could be the Networks simply asked their promos not be treated as commercials. Maybe they themselves have made changes to the cues to skip, still not a glitch if true. But it only happens (at least for me) when it is a network promo of their shows before going back to the show you are watching. I would have said it is simply the Networks configuring the cues to kick in before the promos. However it seems very coincidental TIVO decided to spend time changing their skip, announced it was going to be updated and now this.
Further this does not happen on any other channels but the big four networks. Not on CW, not MYTV, or any that I have skip on.

Hollywood Reporter had an article several months ago about CBS aggressively going after audiences for their new shows. So while the obvious thing normally would be to think they are more interested in not skipping commercials as you say, that isn't case here. They are more interested in audience numbers for new shows not revisiting skipping commercials again that ship has sailed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tampa8 said:


> I don't see it as a technical glitch. This is on purpose. I have no idea how it came to be concerning any money. Could be the Networks simply asked their promos not be treated as commercials. Maybe they themselves have made changes to the cues to skip, still not a glitch if true. But it only happens (at least for me) when it is a network promo of their shows before going back to the show you are watching. I would have said it is simply the Networks configuring the cues to kick in before the promos. However it seems very coincidental TIVO decided to spend time changing their skip, announced it was going to be updated and now this.
> Further this does not happen on any other channels but the big four networks. Not on CW, not MYTV, or any that I have skip on.
> 
> Hollywood Reporter had an article several months ago about CBS aggressively going after audiences for their new shows. So while the obvious thing normally would be to think they are more interested in not skipping commercials as you say, that isn't case here. They are more interested in audience numbers for new shows not revisiting skipping commercials again that ship has sailed.


The problem with this theory is that the total number of TiVo users is probably a rounding error on a broadcast network's audience. It just isn't worth it for them to even notice what TiVo is doing, much less do anything about it.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

tampa8 said:


> I don't see it as a technical glitch. This is on purpose. I have no idea how it came to be concerning any money. Could be the Networks simply asked their promos not be treated as commercials. Maybe they themselves have made changes to the cues to skip, still not a glitch if true. But it only happens (at least for me) when it is a network promo of their shows before going back to the show you are watching. I would have said it is simply the Networks configuring the cues to kick in before the promos. However it seems very coincidental TIVO decided to spend time changing their skip, announced it was going to be updated and now this.
> Further this does not happen on any other channels but the big four networks. Not on CW, not MYTV, or any that I have skip on.
> 
> Hollywood Reporter had an article several months ago about CBS aggressively going after audiences for their new shows. So while the obvious thing normally would be to think they are more interested in not skipping commercials as you say, that isn't case here. They are more interested in audience numbers for new shows not revisiting skipping commercials again that ship has sailed.


CBS is aggressively going after audiences? Wow, breaking news there. "Company tries to sell more product, story at 11!"

A network can just "move the cue" and break TiVos system? But only the four networks choose to do this?

The CW - partly owned by CBS - doesn't. I guess they're not part of the super secret business plan to increase audience.

Look, TiVo used to use human people with eyes to mark when commercials stopped and started.

Now they're using some sort of automation. We don't know what they look for. A "cue" or an on screen bug or a signal buried in the closed captioning or something in the audio. We don't know.

But it's not perfect. Sometimes it misses. Often it includes a network promo which are usually at the beginning or end of a commercial segment and are supplied by the network feed (unlike your local commercial inserts) making promos the most likely candidate to be missed because they're content that are most similar to the show content.

It's not on purpose. It's a glitch.


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## jerryez (May 16, 2001)

If the skip is automated, the network has set their cues to start when the promos start, so the local station do not add their commercials and cut out the promos. The local commercials are always added at the end of network commercials.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

jerryez said:


> If the skip is automated, the network has set their cues to start when the promos start, so the local station do not add their commercials and cut out the promos. The local commercials are always added at the end of network commercials.


Local stations are permitted to override network content in some conditions.

My local CBS overrides the final network promo immediately preceding the 11pm news. The local station overwrites with a promo for their 11pm newscast.

Other national content may or may not be replaced with local ad insertion depending on what the local market has sold. Some inventory is open for local replacement, other is not (reserved for national sale only).

In short, there's no one single "local ads start here" 'cue'. It's much more complicated and nuanced than that.

Typically marks within the closed captioning can be a stable way to determine commercial breaks but that is also dependent on the local station not screwing it up when they insert it into their broadcast. Hence why some users may have different Skip experiences than others.

And Skips are also added to your TiVo after broadcast ends so you also have to have your TiVo set with a reliable network connection, otherwise you may not receive the Skip info. Another reason why experiences may vary.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Yeah, I'm seeing this a fair amount. It's not with every skip, even in one given show, but it's prominent enough that I will run across it daily on different shows over all. It's kind of annoying but I guess it's still better than no skip at all. I just FF through that bit. I'm not going to pay their forced ads any attention.


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## R1elvis (May 16, 2014)

I just started to notice this as well... My thoughts were exactly that the Networks threatened TIVO or something, and made them make us watch the promos. 

One thing I have also noticed, is it only applies to the big 4 networks so far in my case.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

MScottC said:


> *I am convinced that TiVo made a deal with the networks for a new commercial skip system*...


:thumbsdown: 


Pokemon_Dad said:


> *Comskip* also often fails to skip promos.* I think it sees the network/station logo and can't tell whether the promo is part of the show or not. So in Channels DVR after a show is processed I often go into the web UI and manually delete promo segments, especially the really long ones injected into the middle of a show to promote season premiers...


:thumbsup:


Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, and I think that's the problem...*it's gone from humans to automation*, which just isn't as good at recognizing what is show and what is not.
> 
> What's the old saying? *Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity?*


:thumbsup:


Rob Helmerichs said:


> And again, I doubt very, very much that the networks have anything to do with this. *I doubt that TiVo even registers on their radar, or that it has for many years now.*
> 
> I think it's purely a technical consequence of going from human beings to automation.


:thumbsup:


tampa8 said:


> *I don't see it as a technical glitch. This is on purpose*...


:thumbsdown: 


Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...The problem with this theory is that the total number of TiVo users is probably a rounding error on a broadcast network's audience. *It just isn't worth it for them to even notice what TiVo is doing, much less do anything about it.*


:thumbsup:


cwoody222 said:


> ...*TiVo used to use human people with eyes to mark when commercials stopped and started.
> 
> Now they're using some sort of automation*...


:thumbsup:


cwoody222 said:


> ...*It's not on purpose. It's a glitch.*


:thumbsup:


cwoody222 said:


> ...Skips are also added to your TiVo after broadcast ends so *you also have to have your TiVo set with a reliable network connection*, otherwise you may not receive the Skip info. Another reason why experiences may vary.


:thumbsup:


cwoody222 said:


> *It's a technical glitch from when they automated. Period*...


:thumbsup:


cwoody222 said:


> ...*sheesh*


 

So much utter nonsense from folks who obviously don't have the technical background to understand what's actually happening. But, @MScottC , you surprise me, as an employee of CBS. I would have thought that you might have a passing knowledge of what's being transmitted (i.e. black frames, frames with logos, etc...).

For anyone interested:

*GOOGLE: Comskip tuning*​
There are pages and pages written (check '_hits_' from the Comskip forum) where folks use a different tuning profile for EACH channel. I doubt that TiVo has, thus far, put that much effort into this. Much like Plex, Channels DVR, MCE Buddy, etc... Comskip was the '_easy way out_' to add a highly coveted user functionality without much effort.

For the others, with their conspiracy theories, I posted my '*Theory*' over a week ago in another one (of the MULTIPLE  ) SkipMode threads:

(From Oct 6, 2021 at 9:44PM EDT; 9 days ago...)


ClearToLand said:


> IMNSHO, folks should stop '_thinking _*in a vacuum*' and at least _try_ to face a modicum of an alternate reality .
> 
> The TiVo Corp from ~2000 is gone. Most, if not all, of the creative, skilled folks from the early days (of TiVo vs ReplayTV) have moved onto '*Greener Pastures*'. Those that remain are basically collecting a salary and some are even trying their best to keep the company afloat against (possibly / likely) insurmountable odds / unreasonable demands from upper management. SKIP Mode is icing on the cake; folks should be more concerned with GUIDE DATA and the TiVo Servers staying up to continue to validate their $$$ Lifetime subscriptions to said Guide Data.
> 
> ...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Hercules67 said:


> Yes, completely noticed this and I was going to post something about it, but you beat me to it.
> 
> At this point, SKIP MODE is completely useless.


yeah, the skip in point is 'too early' often (though yesterday I had a Jeopardy episode where it skipped INTO Final Jeopardy.. it's a several months old episode though)...

but completely useless? heck no.. even if it only skips "most" of the commercials, that's still far less bad than having to FF or 30 second skip ALL of them.. Usually it seems ONE ad off at most, so I only have to FF a bit.

again, I'm not defending the change, just saying that it's still FAR better than NOT having it.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

ClearToLand said:


> :thumbsdown:
> 
> So much utter nonsense from folks who obviously don't have the technical background to understand what's actually happening. But, @MScottC , you surprise me, as an employee of CBS. I would have thought that you might have a passing knowledge of what's being transmitted (i.e. black frames, frames with logos, etc...).
> 
> ...


I have been paying attention to every show I've seen with Skip enabled, and the only extra non-program material I've seen have been station and network promos. Additionally all the joins are perfectly clean. While I have no inside information, I stand by my theory. BTW, it's very easy to have metadata in the video stream allowing TiVo or other devices to be triggered in one form or another, so what I'm theorizing is very possible.


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

MScottC said:


> I have been paying attention to every show I've seen with Skip enabled, and the only extra non-program material I've seen have been station and network promos. Additionally all the joins are perfectly clean. While I have no inside information, I stand by my theory. BTW, it's very easy to have metadata in the video stream allowing TiVo or other devices to be triggered in one form or another, so what I'm theorizing is very possible.


If someone running Channels DVR with Comskip, like @Pokemon_Dad , and you want to plan an '_experiment_', pick a show and both report back with the time markers at the beginning of each commercial break.

Or, if you have kmttg installed (or want to bother to install it), run Adcut and check where Comskip puts the commercial breaks during Review (you'll have to manually convert frames to seconds since Comskip only reports frames; also, you'll need to know if the channel you recorded is 29.97 fps or 59.94 fps).

Note: If you use Transport Stream Protocol, you should download the show with PyTiVo Desktop to avoid / be aware of TS Sync Errors (dropped packets will make the show shorter in length). Otherwise, if the channel is MPEG-2 and not H.264 (which MUST use TS), you can use Program Stream Protocol.

As several others have already posted (i.e @Rob Helmerichs ), TiVo is not a big enough entity to warrant special attention from the networks.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

ClearToLand said:


> If someone running Channels DVR with Comskip, like @Pokemon_Dad , and you want to plan an '_experiment_', pick a show and both report back with the time markers at the beginning of each commercial break.


I will probably have a good example to play with by Sunday evening. As others have noted, Channels DVR recently began failing to skip promos for other shows. Any additional problems seem specific to just a few series. It's great to be able to easily edit all of that in Channels DVR with just a few clicks.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm on team "Tivo is not blocking ads for other TV shows"


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

DouglasPHill said:


> I'm on team "Tivo is not blocking ads for other TV shows"


And in the parlance of the business, those are called "Promos" (Qualifier, shows on one own's corporate entities.)


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TiVo successfully skipped commercials AND PROMOS for ABC’s Wednesday night comedy block this week.

I guess ABC missed the blackmail payment to TiVo and is no longer part of the super secret cabal of networks increasing audiences by showing promos to TiVo users.

My theory is ABC will be bankrupt by the end of the end of the year as a result of this.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

SM on La Brea was good.. for the first 30 minutes. Then it stopped.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

ClearToLand said:


> If someone running Channels DVR with Comskip, like @Pokemon_Dad , and you want to plan an '_experiment_', pick a show and both report back with the time markers at the beginning of each commercial break.


Here's a good example. My Comskip has bad luck with anything starting Nathan Fillion. 

Channels DVR Comskip time markers from last night's _The Rookie, _
with show segments underlined and all errors in *bold:*
0.00s - 6.04s commercial, skipped
6.05s - 9.46s commercial, skipped
9.47s - 615.48s show, not skipped
*615.50s - 646.38s promo (30.88 seconds), not skipped*
[646.39s to 751.48 several commercials skipped]
*751.50s - 822.82s commercial (71.32 seconds), not skipped
822.84s - 825.82s commercial (2.98 seconds), not skipped*
825.84s - 1386.22s show, not skipped
[1864.98s to 2113.01s commercials and promos, skipped]
2113.03s - 2529.46s show, not skipped
[2529.48s to 2747.08s commercials and promos, skipped]
*2747.09s - 2767.23s show (20.14 seconds), incorrectly skipped*
2767.25s - 2966.81s show, not skipped
2966.83s - 3031.83s show, not skipped
[3031.84s to 3214.78s commercials and a promo, skipped]
3214.79s - 3555.08s show, not skipped
3555.10s - 3564.23s credits, not skipped
3564.24s - 3594.77s credits/next-week, not skipped
3594.79s - 3599.29s local promo, skipped

Screen shot of the first eight lines (before I unchecked the first error at 615.50 seconds):


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Here's a good example. My Comskip has bad luck with anything starting Nathan Fillion.


Not an issue with The Rookie on a TiVo. It's on Sunday, so no SM.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Not an issue with The Rookie on a TiVo. It's on Sunday, so no SM.


No Sundays? I guess that means it's not entirely automated yet. I'll post the numbers from another Big Three network drama in a couple days. Mostly we record news/talk and PBS shows, which aren't good examples.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> No Sundays? I guess that means it's not entirely automated yet. I'll post the numbers from another Big Three network drama in a couple days. Mostly we record news/talk and PBS shows, which aren't good examples.


It seems to fail on Saturdays also, but there isn't much to test with since I don't record repeats. I thought the same thing: an automated system should not care which day it is. But it seems that there is some human action involved.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> It seems to fail on Saturdays also, but there isn't much to test with since I don't record repeats. I thought the same thing: an automated system should not care which day it is. But it seems that there is some human action involved.


Maybe they shut down their network when they leave for the weekend... 

By the way, when I was watching What We Do in the Shadows today I noticed that the promos that it didn't skip all had a ratings bug in the the upper left-hand corner, which might be throwing their software off.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Maybe they shut down their network when they leave for the weekend...
> 
> By the way, when I was watching What We Do in the Shadows today I noticed that the promos that it didn't skip all had a ratings bug in the the upper left-hand corner, which might be throwing their software off.


Comskip looks for the bugs (network logos) in the lower corner, I wonder if it looks for the ratings bugs too.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Maybe they shut down their network when they leave for the weekend...
> 
> By the way, when I was watching What We Do in the Shadows today I noticed that the promos that it didn't skip all had a ratings bug in the the upper left-hand corner, which might be throwing their software off.


During Ghosts on CBS this week a promo with the ratings bug was not skipped and another one without it was skipped.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

The issue of not skipping promos may be related to the fact that, according to the 9th Circuit's ruling on upholding the Trial Court's denial of a preliminary injunction in the major broadcasters vs Dish Autohop suit was that the broadcasters did own copyright to any of the commercials being ONE of a number of points the 9th gave its indication that Dish would likely prevail. The broadcasters do own copyrights to the their promos, and TiVo may have decided to be cautious.

Also, skipping any part of the programming content would likely invite protests from broadcasters and TiVo wants to play it safe and not skip content by using the promos as a viewable buffer. The Dish Autohop does show the last few seconds of a commercial or promo before the programming continues to ensure they do not mistakenly over-shoot the programming, which in Dish's case would be a violation of the Re-transmission agreement.

TiVo should have little fear of any legal action by the broadcasters or cable channels--unless TiVo gets greedy--because it was made pretty clear by the 9th Circuit that the broadcasters--and by extension any other suits against any other programming channels--were gonna LOSE their suit against Dish, and this paved the way for TiVo, and Channels DVR or whoever else is now also offering channel skipping.

However, while I could see TiVo going to various channels and offering not to skip promos for a fee, I could also see, as a response, those same channels decide to communicate to TiVo that instead of paying a fee, if TiVo continued to skip the promos at the end of the commercial break, they _might_ SUE TiVo, and then state they just may do that anyway unless TiVo stops skipping the promos, of course, and since the channels _*do*_ own copyright to their promos, the media companies, while *NOT* expecting to prevail in a trial, could get a Preliminary Injunction that would last for YEARS (because a Court, if the media companies get lucky and get a judge who _could_ see the media companies' _may_ have a point that deserves some deliberation) since the matter does not involve the commercials, but the promos that the media companies do own copyright.

Almost always, it is the tyranny of the Preliminary Injunction that lasts for many years that forces things a certain way because the other party just does not have the time, especially if it is a piece of technology that very well could be legal, but is afraid to offer this tech and hardware having invested MILLIONS only for a Court to issue a Preliminary Injunction. This is way the DVR makers (as in the case of the original TiVo Stream device or Dish's own external HDD for archival system) and DVD/Blu-ray, etc. makers and the Studios have to come to agreements on what will be allowed and what will not, and AGREE, and thereby avoiding the Preliminary Injunction.

I think this promo non-skip is probably due to the system or even humans who may still be involved in process just include the promos. TiVo policy could be vague on this, as well.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That seems to be assuming that TiVo is routinely skipping promos, which it is not. I think Occam's Razor applies here...the simplest explanation for the observable facts is that when TiVo switched to automatic detection of skip points, their software is sometimes unable to distinguish between promos and the actual shows.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Series3Sub said:


> I think this promo non-skip is probably due to the system or even humans who may still be involved in process just include the promos. TiVo policy could be vague on this, as well.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> That seems to be assuming that TiVo is routinely skipping promos, which it is not. I think Occam's Razor applies here...the simplest explanation for the observable facts is that when TiVo switched to automatic detection of skip points, their software is sometimes unable to distinguish between promos and the actual shows.


Yup, as I've been saying, automated commercial skip systems have had increasingly more trouble skipping promos, and the simplest explanation is indeed the most likely: TiVo is switching to automation just when it's getting more difficult to do.

In the example I posted here yesterday, Comskip in Channels DVR failed to detect one promo but skipped all the others. It also it failed to skip a couple of the regular commercials too, which is common. And worse it failed to detect when a promo ended, then missed a small piece of the actual show.

Automation relies on cues like the logo, captions, and aspect ratios. Sometimes enough of those are too similar to the main show segments, especially in network promos lately. Luckily it's easy to drop into Channels DVR to fix these errors with just a few clicks.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Almost 24 hours to have SM on NCIS. Under 8 hours for La Brea. Consistent.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

JoeKustra said:


> Almost 24 hours to have SM on NCIS. Under 8 hours for La Brea. Consistent.


Less than two hours for Rachel maddow last night.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

In Channels DVR the Comskip indexing process runs immediately after the show, and on my system an hour show is indexed in about 15 minutes. The speed depends on the specs of your server and on the number of CPU threads you dedicate to Comskip. There has been some discussion of having the system do a first pass while a show is running, for those trying to watch it live behind some buffer.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

OK, here's another example of the automated Comskip algorithm at work in Channels DVR. _La Brea _is a silly show, so I didn't mind previewing portions to verify some of the following before I've watched the whole episode, and it turns out I was correct in interpreting the tiny little thumbnails in the Edit Commercials UI.

Here are the Channels DVR Comskip time markers from last night's _La Brea, _
with show segments underlined and all *errors in bold:*
0.00s - 4.19s promo for this show, skipped
4.20s - 8.01s promo for this show continued, skipped
8.02s - 14.46s promo for this show continued, skipped
*14.48s - 18.27s network ID + voice-over promo, not skipped *
18.28s - 468.95s show, not skipped
[468.97s - 533.27s, several commercials, skipped]
33.28s - 1058.94s show, not skipped
[1058.96 - 1298.06s commercials + other channel's promo + local promo + part of network promo, skipped]
*1298.08s - 1304.74s remainder of that network promo, not skipped *
1304.75s - 1627.73s show, not skipped
[1627.74s - 1734.00s several commercials skipped]
*1734.02s - 1849.66s commercial, not skipped
1849.68s - 2225.94s two network promos, not skipped*
1884.23s - 2225.94s show, not skipped
[2225.96s - 2487.18s several commercials + local promo, skipped]
2487.20s - 2939.77s show, not skipped
2939.79s - 3170.12s several commercials + network promos, skipped
*3170.13s - 3196.16s network promo, not skipped*
3196.18s - 3637.00s show, not skipped
*3637.02s - 3659.06s credits + next week, skipped*

If you want proof there is no vast conspiracy at work inside the algorithm, here's part of the section from 1058.96s to 1298.06s where it skips other another channel's promo (_Chucky _at 1154.60s to 1179.96s) and a local promo (news at 1244.03s to 1298.06s) *and also the first moment of a network promo (Chicago Fire just before 1298.06s), *treating them like the surrounding commercials, but then *includes the rest of network promo (*_Chicago Fire_* at 1298.08s - 1304.74s)* right before the show starts:


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> Almost 24 hours to have SM on NCIS. Under 8 hours for La Brea. Consistent.


I was about to suggest that SM is applied based on popularity of the show, but then this



lhvetinari said:


> Less than two hours for Rachel maddow last night.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

DouglasPHill said:


> I was about to suggest that SM is applied based on popularity of the show, but then this


Could be. La Brea got 0.8 on the demographic. NCIS skews old, and only got 0.5. Apparently on Monday, Dancing with the Stars took it with 0.8.

They could be simply going by the ratings of the show - the show with higher ratings gets processed first.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Worf said:


> They could be simply going by the ratings of the show - the show with higher ratings gets processed first.


Could be. But how does TiVo know? I can't believe there's a way TiVo can know ratings so quickly, unless they watch what we watch. I guess they could use last week's numbers. But they still need to integrate those ratings to compute SM priorities.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

If it’s automated, there’s no reason TiVo would prioritized based on ratings, they’d just process as much as possible. Not to mention they don’t know the ratings within time to matter.

People are thinking WAY too hard about this.

It’s an automated process that’s far from perfect. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it happens faster than other times. Sometimes it works on some shows and then other times it won’t.

The only constant is that it’s not perfect.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

cwoody222 said:


> The only constant is that it's not perfect.


It's so far from perfect now, it's effectively useless to me.

Skip mode use to mean I never had to touch the remote for an entire episode. Now I have to be prepared to make adjustments after nearly every commercial break. Let's hope it can be improved with fine-tuning...but, given what TiVo has done lately, I'm not optimistic.


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## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

DouglasPHill said:


> I was about to suggest that SM is applied based on popularity of the show, but then this


Last I had Skip data for Counting Cars (airs 9-10pm) by 10:30pm and House Hunters International (airs at 10:30pm) by 11:30pm, but not Batwoman which I see now has skip data.

The value of Skip has been significantly diminished over the last few years, first by the reducing the shows they covered and now that they are made their "improvements" the delay of the Skip data being available. I guess I got spoiled by TiVo's original Skip being available minutes after the show ended. I got used to starting to watching a show that aired at 8pm at at 9pm.

Skip and Quick mode where the two features that kept me using my TiVo. Now I'm down to Quick mode I guess.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

DouglasPHill said:


> I was about to suggest that SM is applied based on popularity of the show, but then this





lhvetinari said:


> Less than two hours for Rachel maddow last night.


TiVo may be prioritizing shows that are likely to be watched first, and on average that's going to be a show on current events like _Maddow _rather than something that can keep a few days like the network drama _La Brea_ ...regardless of how badly I may want to gaze at Natalie Zea.

Also, when there are more pieces then it's more work, whether automated or manual. A show like _Maddow _may have almost the same minutes of commercials as _La Brea_, but they are consolidated into fewer breaks. Even more important, both the _Maddow_ show and its breaks are broken up into fewer blocks (of changes like logo, cc, or aspect ratio). I've found the pieces of _La Brea _much harder to pick through.

No comment re the plot of _La Brea_ also being in broken pieces ...but if I could I would edit it down to just the scenes with Natalie Zea.

*Maddow:*








*
La Brea:*


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

There are absolutely glitches in the system and its absolutely maddening, like when there's multiple skips during a single commercial break. You know the old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it. Well TiVo should've taken that advice.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

tim_m said:


> You know the old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it.


[21st century addendum to old saying] "... unless it's cheaper to fix it."


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Well i can confirm the early end to the commercial skip is not limited to network tv. It happened last night on Day of the Dead. So can we stop the conspiracy crap. I get enough of it in my private life with my mom. I don't need it here too!


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

I got skip on Fear the Walking Dead and Walking Dead World Beyond tonight and it is stopping at promos. So it is the promos that are the bug in the software being used to do skip. It isn't intentional by the big 4 networks.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

I will throw my USELESS 2 cents in here. All I would say is that it would be nice IF they were ALL 30 seconds of BS before the Real Skip should start. Sometimes they are 15 seconds. Very Annoying. Also it seems if you watch it thru the commercial, I thought it used to have a noticeable split second break before the actual program starts again, but I Could be wrong about that, SINCE WHEN IT WORKED RIGHT, WHO WOULD KNOW THAT???


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Well, are the promos that bad to sit through? I for one don't mind promos for other shows because it could be content I may want to watch--but, yes, I get that some will find the promos not being skipped a pain. But I agree that all this is likely automation hiccups and at some point maybe the TV services may exploit this to their advantage, but I don't think so, for now. Its always cheaper using automation instead of people.

Dish is likely the ONLY service still using human beings for commercial skipping (and, thereby, having highly accurate commercial skips every time with no button pressing or action required during playback by the viewer) because they can NOT risk over running the programming content that would put them at risk of violation of re-transmission agreements--which TiVo and Channels DVR, etc. have no such agreements and, therefore, have no such threats.

Does anyone here remember and ever owned one of those Commercial Skip VHS VCR's back in the 1990's. I did, and they worked fairly well and used the short black segments between programming and content as the cue. Of course, today there are several "cable" channels that have virtually no black between content and commercial.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

lhvetinari said:


> Comskip looks for the bugs (network logos) in the lower corner, I wonder if it looks for the ratings bugs too.


I noticed that since 21.11.1.v5 the logos are now at the bottom left corner.

Before 21.11.1.v5 all logos were at the bottom right corner.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

KevTech said:


> I noticed that since 21.11.1.v5 the logos are now at the bottom left corner.
> 
> Before 21.11.1.v5 all logos were at the bottom right corner.


He's talking about the logos the networks put on during their shows.


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## Rueg (Oct 2, 2018)

The auto skip commercials are not working all the time for me either. Really annoying. So many things going wrong at the same time.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

I think the "automated" system that TIVO went to for skip just isn't working. Some shows it skips some commercials but not all - some it does none.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ManeJon said:


> I think the "automated" system that TIVO went to for skip just isn't working. Some shows it skips some commercials but not all - some it does none.


Last night I recorded The Late Show and The Tonight Show. Both had an early skip on the first skip point. All subsequent skip points were fine. This is also somewhat normal for late night.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I've had fairly good luck with the shows that actually have it...in those cases it's not what it used to be, but it's not too terrible. With the one spectacular exception I mentioned earlier.

But man, do I miss what it used to be, where every show on the given channels had it within minutes of airtime, and it was generally somewhere between excellent and perfect.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

KevTech said:


> I noticed that since 21.11.1.v5 the logos are now at the bottom left corner.
> 
> Before 21.11.1.v5 all logos were at the bottom right corner.


The network logos are inserted by the broadcast. The TiVo update positively has NOTHING to do with it.

It's a coincidence. CBS has moved their bug from right to left this season. Why? Their aesthetic choice. Networks always update/change their onscreen marketing for fall. Lower thirds, promos, bugs, all often change in the fall.

NBC has been on the left previously. ABC, FOX and CW are still on the right.

Everyone needs to stop looking for bogeymen in their TiVo update.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

>>>Everyone needs to stop looking for bogeymen in their TiVo update.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

ManeJon said:


> I think the "automated" system that TIVO went to for skip just isn't working. Some shows it skips some commercials but not all - some it does none.


Sometimes it skips part of the program, which makes it worse than useless.


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## Starfire500 (May 20, 2021)

Lurker1 said:


> Sometimes it skips part of the program, which makes it worse than useless.


There is also the issue with many programs that used to get skip mode only get it sometimes and not other times. This whole TIVO mess is very annoying. Wish they go back to the way SM used to works before all this nonsense stated.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Starfire500 said:


> There is also the issue with many programs that used to get skip mode only get it sometimes and not other times. This whole TIVO mess is very annoying. Wish they go back to the way SM used to works before all this nonsense stated.


I suspect they laid off all the Skip Moneys...


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

cwoody222 said:


> NBC has been on the left previously. ABC, FOX and CW are still on the right.


Every channel bug is now in the bottom left corner for me including ABC, FOX and CW.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

KevTech said:


> Every channel bug is now in the bottom left corner for me including ABC, FOX and CW.


Are you sure?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

KevTech said:


> Every channel bug is now in the bottom left corner for me including ABC, FOX and CW.


Is that something your cable company is doing? I just checked my latest recordings.
Broadcast...
ABC, CW, FOX, bottom right.
CBS and NBC, bottom left.

Cable... a quick check of a few channels...
SyFy, USA bottom left.
AMC, Food, FX, History, TNT, bottom right.

[edit] What does bug placement have to do with Skip?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

justen_m said:


> [edit] What does bug placement have to do with Skip?


There was a kind of conspiracy theory earlier in the thread that the movement of the bug was a TiVo thing related to Skip. Somehow.

(Like most conspiracy theories, it didn't make much sense to me... )


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

It’s assumed that things like Skip use on screen cues (network bugs, TV ratings boxes) to differentiate show from commercial.

Much of which Skip misses are network promos that are likely to have one or the other.

However, a bug being on the left or right doesn’t matter.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

Here is ABC yesterday.
Today the CW is back at the bottom right.
Have not checked Fox yet.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

KevTech said:


> Here is ABC yesterday.
> Today the CW is back at the bottom right.
> Have not checked Fox yet.
> View attachment 64581


I only checked recordings of regularly scheduled programs, i.e. dramas, comedies, movies, etc. With live sporting events, e.g. college football, I've seen the bug moved around. On one channel during a college football game (don't remember which game or channel), the bug was moved to the TOP right.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

justen_m said:


> On one channel during a college football game (don't remember which game or channel), the bug was moved to the TOP right.


Ya all the NFL games today have the bug in the top right corner.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

As someone who has to deal with the "CBS Eye" placement every time the network decides to move it, trust me, it has nothing to do with triggering TiVo. Though in the newest placement of our logo, I'm really surprised by their choices. Incredibly tiny, and no bordering or embossment, it becomes almost invisible when certain levels of video are behind it.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

MScottC said:


> As someone who has to deal with the "CBS Eye" placement every time the network decides to move it, trust me, it has nothing to do with triggering TiVo. Though in the newest placement of our logo, I'm really surprised by their choices. Incredibly tiny, and no bordering or embossment, it becomes almost invisible when certain levels of video are behind it.


Can you suggest that they use the fully invisible logo?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I haven't really been following this thread, but I have obviously noticed that SM kind of sucks these days. Am I correct that the reason for this is that they have switched to an automated system and there is no a longer an actual person marking the skip points?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yup.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

SM didn't even work on the episode I tried this morning. Last night Voice episode showed to have skipmode, but there was nothing there, It didn't skip manually or automatically.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

osu1991 said:


> SM didn't even work on the episode I tried this morning. Last night Voice episode showed to have skipmode, but there was nothing there, It didn't skip manually or automatically.


\

Yep it appears Tivo has reached a new level of WTF with their skip mode disaster. I had this experience on All American. It had the skip icon but no skip.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

All my shows had the skip icon from last night, none actually skipped a damn thing though. This is an unmitigated disaster.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

gweempose said:


> I haven't really been following this thread, but I have obviously noticed that SM kind of sucks these days. Am I correct that the reason for this is that they have switched to an automated system and there is no a longer an actual person marking the skip points?


That's the general assumption.

TiVo hasn't confirmed this, and I wouldn't expect them to either. They're not about to explain how the sausage is made, especially when everyone hates it.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

KevTech said:


> Ya all the NFL games today have the bug in the top right corner.


Sports, news and live specials often has a different graphics package than prime time prerecorded content.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

cwoody222 said:


> That's the general assumption.
> TiVo hasn't confirmed this, and I wouldn't expect them to either. They're not about to explain how the sausage is made, especially when everyone hates it.


I asked on Twitter. Crickets.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

And despite having the skip icon for everything, not one actually worked last night. Ridiculous!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tim_m said:


> And despite having the skip icon for everything, not one actually worked last night. Ridiculous!


On The Late Show and The Tonight Show SM was as expected: first one was early and subsequent points were ok.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

JoeKustra said:


> On The Late Show and The Tonight Show SM was as expected: first one was early and subsequent points were ok.


Not sure what happened during primetime then but, Fox, NBC, ABC and CW shows all had skip icon but no actual skip.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tim_m said:


> Not sure what happened during primetime then but, Fox, NBC, ABC and CW shows all had skip icon but no actual skip.


Just checked. Confirmed.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

I am absolutely convinced that the pointy haired boss from Dilbert is now running Tivo and on the take from the owner of the Philippine call center that's making bank on all the extra CS calls. Go ahead, prove me wrong! They keep pushing updates that break things and have made Skip worthless. Then they all of a sudden enforce a 12 unit max for no particular reason.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

brobin said:


> I am absolutely convinced that the pointy haired boss from Dilbert is now running Tivo and on the take from the owner of the Philippine call center that's making bank on all the extra CS calls. Go ahead, prove me wrong! They keep pushing updates that break things and have made Skip worthless. Then they all of a sudden enforce a 12 unit max for no particular reason.


TiVo stopped caring when they stopped being TiVo and became a tiny insignificant part of the Xperi holding company which includes other things such as HD radio, IMAX Enhanced and dts.

Home - Xperi


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

The “new improved” skip mode is just really badly done and shows either they don’t care or are completely inept. Sometimes skip will work correctly but the rest of the time we’re just manually fast forwarding just like in the old days before skip mode ever happened. Meanwhile the writing is on the wall with all the online streaming services also offering DVR...


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

They don't care, and 30-sec skip is your friend. Way better than FF'ing through commercials.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

It's bad. Sometimes skips too soon. Sometimes does not skip the whole break. According to some posters some shows with skip icon don't skip at all. Personally I may turn it off. I was pretty good at FF and hit the short rewind to get through. The partial skips are bad because don't know how far they went, could be a few secs from the show starting again, could be a minute or more, very tough to judge manual FF from that point.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tommage1 said:


> It's bad. Sometimes skips too soon. Sometimes does not skip the whole break. According to some posters some shows with skip icon don't skip at all. Personally I may turn it off. I was pretty good at FF and hit the short rewind to get through. The partial skips are bad because don't know how far they went, could be a few secs from the show starting again, could be a minute or more, very tough to judge manual FF from that point.


I agree with your post. I also don't feel it's that bad. I have seen the skip icon without skip (once). I have seen the wrong skip points frequently, usually after the first block of commercials. I use FF 2X most of the time, with my finger on the play button. 90% of the time I can hit Play and then requeue takes me back enough to not lose any content. About 50% of my commercials are "clobbered" by local ads. I'm always finding a partial phone number as the last thing I see before a program resumes. But the good SM beats no/bad SM on any program.

I'm retired and home 99% of the time, so I watch a lot of TV. Late night during the week and prime time on weekends. Since I record/watch Late Night with Seth Meyers, I keep my FF skills active. Automated SM is getting better. I always send the failure form when it misses. I've asked @TiVoSupport on Twitter how the new SM works, but I think they are gone. Xperi doesn't have a support presence anywhere I can find. Finally, that very long delay with SM application has been reduced or eliminated as far as I can tell.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> I always send the failure form when it misse


We need more people like you who take the time to file reports


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

There was an amusing auto-skip fail on Legends of Tomorrow this week. In the show, there was a 40s-style orientation video the characters were watching, and it confused Skip, which skipped a few seconds of it.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> We need more people like you who take the time to file reports


If this is the form referred to, https://survey.confirmit.com/wix/1/p3075425841.aspx , I'm not sure TiVo even looks at that anymore.

They do refer to it on the troubleshooting page at Tivo Customer Support Community but that page still says a "dedicated team of TV-watchers" manually marks the commercials, which we know isn't true anymore.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Something new. Last Monday I recorded "4400" on the CW local channel for my DMA. It didn't have SM this week, but did the previous week. I don't record much on CW. I noticed there was a repeat on my NY CW station, KPIX, which is often blacked out during prime time. After the repeat recorded, within 30 minutes there was SM. Then I went to my local CW recording and it also had SM attached. Very interesting.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Missed SM on CBS, NBC and ABC last night. We were doing so well.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> Missed SM on CBS, NBC and ABC last night. We were doing so well.


Maybe they were off for the International Day of Persons with Disabilities...


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Comskip* also often fails to skip promos. I think it sees the network/station logo and can't tell whether the promo is part of the show or not. So in Channels DVR after a show is processed I often go into the web UI and manually delete promo segments, especially the really long ones injected into the middle of a show to promote season premiers.
> 
> This makes me wonder how much of TiVo indexing is automated too. Apparently they don't try to slice out the promos, but I have to say that is not always easy.
> 
> *Comskip is an open source automated commercial indexing program used by Channels DVR, Sage TV, Beyond TV, and MCE for Windows Media Center among others.


Jeopardy! keeps having a marker within the Final Jeopardy! section. Sometimes it has a marker before, and a marker during Final Jeopardy!. Either way, I tend to see that Skip promo pop up during the 30 seconds. If it's not automated, it's beyond pathetic.

As for the topic at hand, if they're going to start intentionally putting the marker before certain commercials because of supposed deals, they should just drop SkipMode at that point because it's no longer true to it's name. Maybe then, people would get angry enough to demand what they were promised.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

TKnight206 said:


> Jeopardy! keeps having a marker within the Final Jeopardy! section. Sometimes it has a marker before, and a marker during Final Jeopardy!. Either way, I tend to see that Skip promo pop up during the 30 seconds. If it's not automated, it's beyond pathetic.
> 
> As for the topic at hand, if they're going to start intentionally putting the marker before certain commercials because of supposed deals, they should just drop SkipMode at that point because it's no longer true to it's name. Maybe then, people would get angry enough to demand what they were promised.


At this point the consensus is that it's definitely automated. In other posts in this thread, I've provided examples of how a competitor's automation works. Automation is generally not as accurate as human indexing, and often requires some final polishing by the end user, though it does have the potential to index far more shows. But TiVo has not yet achieved the quality of even a 3-person competitor that relies on open source software, TiVo provides no way for us to do final editing, and so far TiVo automated indexing is far slower on far fewer shows. And so in my house we are almost completely transitioned over to Channels DVR.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

If I were OTA I'd certainly be a 'Channels DVR' user but there's no OTA for me without maybe a 30'+ tower so it's Xfinity + CableCARD TiVo and an XG1V4 Xfinity box. For most 'network' recordings the Xfinity 'Smart Resume' works very well. If I had to I could do well with only the XG1V4 and my ATV4K for streaming. I use the XG1V4 very seldom to stream. Last year the XG1V4 and Paramount + gave me 'LIVE' CBS from from the Mid-west and that worked well. I could avoid the Ravens and WFT on the 'locals'. That went away about 2 weeks into pre-season this year. Don't watch much NFL anyway! I tried Channels DVR using TVE in 2019 and it did what it was said to do. 

Size of the household, number of displays I believe has much to do with 'choices' for most.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

@WVZR1 my primary source for Channels DVR is an HDHR Prime with an Xfinity CableCARD. I can't get premium channels with that, but I don't subscribe to those. I also run two OTA tuners as an experiment, including the crowdfunded ATSC 3.0 version, but I can't rely on them when it rains and as we've discussed before I can only hope (possibly in vain) that 3.0 will improve reception when it rolls out in my area.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> At this point the consensus is that it's definitely automated. In other posts in this thread, I've provided examples of how a competitor's automation works. Automation is generally not as accurate as human indexing, and often requires some final polishing by the end user, though it does have the potential to index far more shows. But TiVo has not yet achieved the quality of even a 3-person competitor that relies on open source software, TiVo provides no way for us to do final editing, and so far TiVo automated indexing is far slower on far fewer shows. And so in my house we are almost completely transitioned over to Channels DVR.


I would love it if I could modify where the markers are. It is beyond irritating to have a bad job done, especially if I'm planning on saving it.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

TKnight206 said:


> I would love it if I could modify where the markers are. It is beyond irritating to have a bad job done, especially if I'm planning on saving it.


Depends how much time you've got.  You can pull shows from your TiVo to a PC with pyTivo, edit the commercials out with the VideoReDo "Ad Detective", then if your TiVo is on TE3 you can re-upload them to the TiVo. Bad commercial skipping is one more reason to give up on TE4 (but I've mostly given up on TiVo entirely at this point).


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

I realize a 'silly question'!

There's no way that 'Channels DVR' could accomplish this task? If TVE did 5.1 it would be for many a +.

If I could program a remote to do the Xfinity '4X - Smart Resume' - I'd likely be all set!


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> I realize a 'silly question'!
> 
> There's no way that 'Channels DVR' could accomplish this task? If TVE did 5.1 it would be for many a +.
> 
> If I could program a remote to do the Xfinity '4X - Smart Resume' - I'd likely be all set!


OK, so yes Channels DVR accomplishes the commercial skip task well enough, certainly better than TiVo right now, including a decent final editor for us to polish the results with. And yes some TVE sources do support 5.1 sound, for example YouTube TV and Hulu Live TV have begun rolling that out in recent months, but I don't know of any cablecos doing the same.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What's the old saying? Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity?


I'll call it malice anyway. Especially after a TiVo representative told me that TiVo's corporate policy is that they don't care about accessibility regardless of what the CVAA says. The representative went on to say that the only reason for the accessibility options is to make TiVo look compliant despite the fact that they don't give a damn about accessibility.

What this shows is TiVo's very toxic attitude towards its customers so it's would be no surprise that TiVo would take a useful feature and depreciate it to a point where they can charge networks and advertisers for the privlege of being exempt from having their ads skipped.

That's OK though because TiVo is living on borrowed time. All the cable TV companies in my area tell me that the cable TV industry is moving away from supporting cable cards and that in a couple of years, cable TV systems around the country will begin dropping cable card support. For TiVo that means their market share is about to take a bit hit and I don't believe that there are enough cord cutters to keep TiVo afloat once cable cards are no longer supported.

Question: Considering how useless commercial skip feature has become, it would have been nice if EP4 still had the option to turn off commercial skip like EP3 had. Is there a way to turn off the commercial skip feature in EP4? Thanks!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

FWIW comskip has been much better in the last couple of weeks, I wonder if they finally have it tuned right.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

slowbiscuit said:


> FWIW comskip has been much better in the last couple of weeks, I wonder if they finally have it tuned right.


Better, yes. Done, no. I was going to post something similar. But no SM on SNL this week and Friday's "Blue Bloods" was labeled SM yet only the first one functioned. After that no message or chime, just the kettle drum to the end. Yet it seems to be improving.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Better, yes. Done, no. I was going to post something similar. But no SM on SNL this week and Friday's "Blue Bloods" was labeled SM yet only the first one functioned. After that no message or chime, just the kettle drum to the end. Yet it seems to be improving.


I seldom check the the 'MY SHOWS' any longer for CBS - Paramount+ the next day accomplishes the CBS needs. I did though this week something very close to 12AM EST and I noticed no CBS had SKIP applied. Today 'Blue Bloods' was like you mentioned and 'Magnum P.I.' had none. When I do use TiVo I'm inclined to rely on the 'Buttons' - they respond as a person expects time after time after time.

I do have a question tough. I believe that COX uses the XG1V4 same as Comcast/Xfinity. Does the COX box offer the same 'Smart Resume' feature that Comcast/Xfinity offer?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

WVZR1 said:


> I do have a question tough. I believe that COX uses the XG1V4 same as Comcast/Xfinity. Does the COX box offer the same 'Smart Resume' feature that Comcast/Xfinity offer?


Really tough since I don't have COX. My feed: www.secv.com and they like the TS4K with Plume.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Really tough since I don't have COX. My feed: www.secv.com and they like the TS4K with Plume.


I knew you couldn't/don't have COX but I thought it a reasonable thread to mention COX and my question! The 'Smart Resume' is very good.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> there was a repeat on my NY CW station, KPIX, which is often blacked out during prime time.


I think you meant WPIX...KPIX is CBS out of SF, CA


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dishrich said:


> I think you meant WPIX...KPIX is CBS out of SF, CA


You are correct. Must have been me dreaming of living in CA again.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I'm seeing all kinds of weird stuff happening with skip, especially this week.

For a while now, it's been wonky on Jeopardy, in that for the Final Jeopardy round it's off and then, right after the host reads the answer, another 'skip' thing comes up where no skip is needed.

This week I'm having some shows where the skip is just off and some shows where, less than halfway through a show, there is no more skip for the episode. It just goes away.

I hesitate to try customer service because I've learned that it's not what it was years ago. The last two times I tried doing the thing for scheduling errors and such, I end up getting an email back that they fixed it - yet nothing got fixed.


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## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

sharkster said:


> I'm seeing all kinds of weird stuff happening with skip, especially this week.
> 
> For a while now, it's been wonky on Jeopardy, in that for the Final Jeopardy round it's off and then, right after the host reads the answer, another 'skip' thing comes up where no skip is needed.
> 
> ...


I was just going to make a similar post. For Monday and yesterday most of the shows I recorded had the Skip logo, but for more than half of them they just skipped the first one or two commercial breaks, then nothing. At least one of them skipped to random positions.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

sharkster said:


> This week I'm having some shows where the skip is just off and some shows where, less than halfway through a show, there is no more skip for the episode. It just goes away.


Several shows seem to have this bug. It'll ding and flash up to use "D" to skip after the first break, and then never appear again.

And the vast majority of shows seem to be missing it again.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Bruce24 said:


> I was just going to make a similar post. For Monday and yesterday most of the shows I recorded had the Skip logo, but for more than half of them they just skipped the first one or two commercial breaks, then nothing. At least one of them skipped to random positions.





astrohip said:


> Several shows seem to have this bug. It'll ding and flash up to use "D" to skip after the first break, and then never appear again.
> 
> And the vast majority of shows seem to be missing it again.


You folks obviously failed to upgrade to TiVo SkipMode Ultra Premium Plus (Ad-free).


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Several shows seem to have this bug. It'll ding and flash up to use "D" to skip after the first break, and then never appear again.
> *
> And the vast majority of shows seem to be missing it again.*


I'm going to modify this... the vast majority don't seem to be getting it soon after airing. I can sit down to watch the Thursday night sitcom-fest, and none of them will have Skip. But I was just now looking in the Deleted Folder, and I noticed almost all of them had it. So at some point they were skipified. Just not within an hour or two of airing.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Last night: Ordinary Joe has SM, late night is all missing. I detect a pattern.


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