# Thread to discuss 8.3 causing pixelation/audio drop



## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

It seems that many of us are convinced that 8.3 is somehow causing sustained pixelation and audio drops in machines that previously worked great or at least had very sporadic problems pre-8.3. I reported this to TiVo two weeks ago and the techs didn't even seem to know pixelation/audio drops were a frequent issue, so you can imagine I didn't get much help. Instead, they sent a new Series3 my way. It is working great but is still on 8.1 and I fear what will happen when 8.3 is rolled out to it. 

I know many others have already posted this issue in other threads, and it seemed like it was time to give the issue a separate discussion forum. Hopefully, TiVoPony will chime in at some point.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

I'd suggest checking your cablecards and your cableco's configuration of them. They are your interface to the cable signal and are responsible for probably 99% of signal related issues (as audio/video drops are) as I've seen and experienced. Also, get your cable company to check your signal strength and remove any splitters that you may be using. I highly doubt that Tivo's software is the root cause behind any signal issues.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

TostitoBandito said:


> I'd suggest checking your cablecards and your cableco's configuration of them. They are your interface to the cable signal and are responsible for probably 99% of signal related issues (as audio/video drops are) as I've seen and experienced. Also, get your cable company to check your signal strength and remove any splitters that you may be using. I highly doubt that Tivo's software is the root cause behind any signal issues.


I'm not sure I would discount that so quickly. My evidence is somewhat anecdotal, but I feel that I've been getting more pixelation in the time since 8.3 appeared. It's not awful, but it is noticeable.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> I'm not sure I would discount that so quickly. My evidence is somewhat anecdotal, but I feel that I've been getting more pixelation in the time since 8.3 appeared. It's not awful, but it is noticeable.


Well audio and/or video dropping out or becoming garbled at times is different than simply slightly lower video quality or visible macroblocking as you describe. My point was that an issue where your audio and video both drop or become garbled at the same is very likely signal related and can be traced to the interface between you and the cableco.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> I'm not sure I would discount that so quickly. My evidence is somewhat anecdotal, but I feel that I've been getting more pixelation in the time since 8.3 appeared. It's not awful, but it is noticeable.


 That's my experience, IJLT, and I am not a big believer in coincidence. Everything was fine for the first three months of ownership under 8.1, I then received 8.3 and major pixeilation/audio drops immediately followed. If I was alone, I'd buy the coicidence/other causes angle, but it sounds like many others are telling the same story. That's why I started the thread -- to share anecdotal stories to see if there really is a pattern. If so, I think TiVoPony will be interested.

(I would appreciate it if the skeptics did not hijack this thread. I think most of us are well aware of the other possible causes. They have been discussed extensively in other threads.)


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

I got 8.3 and have problems with pixilation and audio drop outs. It's not all the time though. I use analog cable and over the air only. No cable cards.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

I live in the same area as Runch Machine and have simular problems with pixilation and audio drop outs since version 8.3 was downloaded. It's not all the time. I have Comcast digital cable and over the air, with two cable cards. I had no problems before 8.3.


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## wgw (May 16, 2007)

Thank you for starting this thread. I believe it to be a very real potential problem and concern for many. This thread will allow us to compare and explore experiences. If I can find time for testing, I will definitely try to contribute my experiences but I fear I won't have time at the moment. My first test would be to record the same program OTA and over cable to see if dropouts occurred at the same time. If OTA HD and cable HD dropouts occur at the same time, we could probably rule out a bug in v8.3.1 and attribute it to satellite feed.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

wgw said:


> Thank you for starting this thread. I believe it to be a very real potential problem and concern for many. This thread will allow us to compare and explore experiences. If I can find time for testing, I will definitely try to contribute my experiences but I fear I won't have time at the moment. My first test would be to record the same program OTA and over cable to see if dropouts occurred at the same time. If OTA HD and cable HD dropouts occur at the same time, we could probably rule out a bug in v8.3.1 and attribute it to satellite feed.


 Before I received my replacement TiVo last week, I had the opportunity to perform a test.

A week ago last Thursday, I started watching the partially recorded first round of the Players Championship golf tournament from the beginning before the program had completed recording. It was almost unwatchable for the entire recorded portion -- a couple hours or so -- due to sustained audio drops and pixelation. Since the program -- a 7-hour marathon! -- had not completed recording I flipped it on live. I have my cable split such that one lead goes to TiVo, the other directly to the TV in case both TiVo tuners are recording and I want to watch a third show live. This gave me the chance to compare the live feed through TiVo vs. the live feed directly to the TV. The pixelation and audio drops were constant on the live feed through TiVo --just as they were on the recorded portion -- but the feed directly to the TV was a perfect picture. I realize this doesn't rule out faulty cable cards but suggests the signal from Cox Cable here in Gilbert, AZ was not the culprit.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

Runch Machine said:


> I got 8.3 and have problems with pixilation and audio drop outs. It's not all the time though. I use analog cable and over the air only. No cable cards.


 Did you have problems before 8.3 to the same degree you do now?


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

I had MASSIVE problems with 8.0, which were maybe 80% fixed by 8.1. 8.3 isn't better or worse than 8.1 on my S3.


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

I also had significant problems with 8.0 that were mostly solved with 8.1. Then 8.3 comes along and now things are worse than they have ever been. 

I have a Pioneer PDP-5070HD with a cablecard installed and I can switch to direct view on the Pioneer when I have problems on the Tivo. I have NEVER experienced any pixalation or audio dropout problems while viewing the Pioneer through its own cablecard. I have switched cable drops between the Tivo and the Pioneer with no effect.

Cox cable has extensively checked my signal and replaced cables and connectors. My signal is very good as checked with their meter and consistantly shows 98-100 on the Tivo (except during pixalation events). During pixalation events the signal as measured by the Tivo jumps around from 0 - 100. However, the actual signal going in to the Tivo remains constantly good as measured by Cox. They also swapped cablecards which did not help.

In my opinion, this problem is software related. Give me back 8.1.


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

hddude55 said:


> Instead, they sent a new Series3 my way. It is working great but is still on 8.1 and I fear what will happen when 8.3 is rolled out to it.


Has your Series 3 updated to 8.3 yet?


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## Carlos_E (Mar 12, 2007)

I did not have audio drop outs or pixelation before getting 8.3. I am getting a lot of it now. I had it in the middle of the season finale of Heros!


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## Kenji (Jun 29, 2003)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> My evidence is somewhat anecdotal, but I feel that I've been getting more pixelation in the time since 8.3 appeared. It's not awful, but it is noticeable.


+1.


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

This seems to be a major issue, yet it seems to be effecting very few.

I will be receiving a new box this week. I think I will leave it at 8.1 until these issues are ironed out.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

ehardman said:


> Has your Series 3 updated to 8.3 yet?


Not as of yesterday and I am having no pixelation or audio drops. I wish I could stay with 8.1 even though I know 8.3 did fix a few annoying things like slow program searches and the new 8.3 feature allowing HD-only programming searches is great.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

tase2 said:


> This seems to be a major issue, yet it seems to be effecting very few.
> 
> I will be receiving a new box this week. I think I will leave it at 8.1 until these issues are ironed out.


 Doesn't the upgrade happen automatically, or can I block it?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

worachj said:


> I live in the same area as Runch Machine and have simular problems with pixilation and audio drop outs since version 8.3 was downloaded. It's not all the time. I have Comcast digital cable and over the air, with two cable cards. I had no problems before 8.3.


 That's our setup and our experience exactly...no splitter, cable cards with Comcast. We had no problems prior to 8.3 and now we experience brief/sporadic pixelation and audio dropouts on our S3.


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

hddude55 said:


> Doesn't the upgrade happen automatically, or can I block it?


If the first replacement box I received last week is any indication, it initially ended up at 8.1 after the guided setup.

I assume after that, once it is available I can choose not to restart and stay at 8.1.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tase2 said:


> If the first replacement box I received last week is any indication, it initially ended up at 8.1 after the guided setup.
> 
> I assume after that, once it is available I can choose not to restart and stay at 8.1.


 I don't think you have a choice. The next time it communicates with Mother TiVo (and they send a FW upgrade) it will download and reboot automatically at 2 a.m.


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## lonesail (Dec 24, 2004)

I have not had ANY pixelation issues until 8.3 rolled out. Now channels that are using frequencies 435Mhz, 437Mhz, 441Mhz, and 453Mhz are so pixelated they are unwatchable. I live in northern Delaware and have Verizon FiOS service.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

The descriptions here are so vague that it's really impossible to draw any conclusions about the cause. What is pixelation? I bet if you ask 10 people here you get 10 answers. As for any audio dropouts accompanied by disturbances in the video, this is clearly a signal/processing issue of some kind. *If you exprienced the same symptoms to ANY extent prior to the upgrade, the root cause is almost certainly not the new software. * Whether it is instigated by the upgraded software or not, you should take steps with your cable company to ensure that your connection and cablecards are configured correctly. Re-pairing the cards or getting a new set could very well fix whatever the software did or didn't break. I'd strongly suggest that especially the people who had some issues prior to the 8.3 update do this first. If the output from your Tivo is still inconsistent after that, then you should take it up with Tivo. If you had no issues at all prior to 8.3, and have severe problems now, you should gather all the data you can (affected frequency ranges, etc...) and persistently bug Tivo about it. They can't test their software for every possible configuration, so it is inevitable that it may not operate normally in some situations. Since it's software it should definitely be fixable though.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

ehardman said:


> I also had significant problems with 8.0 that were mostly solved with 8.1. Then 8.3 comes along and now things are worse than they have ever been.
> 
> I have a Pioneer PDP-5070HD with a cablecard installed and I can switch to direct view on the Pioneer when I have problems on the Tivo. I have NEVER experienced any pixalation or audio dropout problems while viewing the Pioneer through its own cablecard. I have switched cable drops between the Tivo and the Pioneer with no effect.
> 
> ...


As far as I know, Tivo's signal strength meter is strictly an error rate metric and has nothing to do with the actual strength of the signal.


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## lonesail (Dec 24, 2004)

TostitoBandito said:


> What is pixelation?


In this context pixelation or pixelization is when chunks of video are not smoothly updating in their appropriate places but instead lagging behind and/or moving around the screen in a manner that breaks up continuous picture and makes it hard or impossible to watch.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TostitoBandito said:


> The descriptions here are so vague that it's really impossible to draw any conclusions about the cause. What is pixelation? I bet if you ask 10 people here you get 10 answers. As for any audio dropouts accompanied by disturbances in the video, this is clearly a signal/processing issue of some kind. *If you exprienced the same symptoms to ANY extent prior to the upgrade, the root cause is almost certainly not the new software. * Whether it is instigated by the upgraded software or not, you should take steps with your cable company to ensure that your connection and cablecards are configured correctly. Re-pairing the cards or getting a new set could very well fix whatever the software did or didn't break. If the output from your Tivo is still inconsistent after that, then you should take it up with Tivo.


 We experience a brief - one or two seconds - picture pixelization which consists of a picture freeze/breakup that sometimes is only a few lines and sometimes more, but usually not the entire picture. This is concurrent with audio loss and then a return to normal playback. This can happen once or a couple of times during a show. It only happens now and then and appears on various channels and shows. We usually see it on at least one show of the four or five we watch daily.

Agreed this has all of the earmarks of a signal loss. We used to have SKYTV on Satellite :down: and this type of problem was typical with poor weather (rain). However we've had Comcast with two cable cards for a while now and we've not had this problem on our S3 _until _ the 8.3 upgrade. It could be a coincidence, but based on the responses it seems likely that something has changed. Perhaps the signal processing has become more sensitive somehow? Who knows.  There does seem to be something amiss here though.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

TostitoBandito said:


> The descriptions here are so vague that it's really impossible to draw any conclusions about the cause.


Please don't try to squash this thread. You don't seem to have the problems we have described and your proposed solutions for our "vague" problems have been thoroughly discussed in other threads. Some of us are convinced that there could be a problem with 8.3 causing pixelation and sound drops, and this thread exists to discuss that possibility. I can't help but wonder why you seem determined to head us off. You stated your position that we were wrong yesterday and now you are back telling us the same thing today.

Hopefully someone in the know that works for TiVo like TiVoPony will read this thread and other posts on the topic in other threads, and elevate the matter to where it will be dealt with competently at TiVo.

You sound pretty knowledgeable and therefore should know how frustrating it is to call tech support and get nowhere. The TiVo tech support staff is consistently polite, but like most first-line tech support staff they seem to be inexperienced and uninformed. I have talked to them a couple times about this matter but got nowhere. On a positive note, it appears their tech support staff is about the last tech support staff of any US company that comprehends spoken US English without a major hassle; i.e., the staff hasn't been relocated to India...yet.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

hddude55 said:


> Please don't try to squash this thread. You don't seem to have the problems we have described and your proposed solutions for our "vague" problems have been thoroughly discussed in other threads. Some of us are convinced that there could be a problem with 8.3 causing pixelation and sound drops, and this thread exists to discuss that possibility. I can't help but wonder why you seem determined to head us off. You stated your position that we were wrong yesterday and now you are back telling us the same thing today.
> 
> Hopefully someone in the know that works for TiVo like TiVoPony will read this thread and other posts on the topic in other threads, and elevate the matter to where it will be dealt with competently at TiVo.
> 
> You sound pretty knowledgeable and therefore should know how frustrating it is to call tech support and get nowhere. The TiVo tech support staff is consistently polite, but like most first-line tech support staff they seem to be inexperienced and uninformed. I have talked to them a couple times about this matter but got nowhere. On a positive note, it appears their tech support staff is about the last tech support staff of any US company that comprehends spoken US English without a major hassle; i.e., the staff hasn't been relocated to India...yet.


I'm not trying to squash anything. I'm just saying that from reading many of these threads over the past months it seems to me that many of the people are confusing multiple issues and multiple causes. I know from my own experience what signal dropouts (which is what is being described, at least by a couple people) are and what caused mine. I think it's reasonable to assume that not every single person complaining about this issue on these forums has a problem caused by Tivo's new software (though some might). There are some basic troubleshooting steps you can go through (like cablecard pairing, removing cablecards and seeing if the problem occurs on OTA HD, isolating which channels exhibit the problem, etc..) which could fix or definitively identify the problem if it is not broken software. I'm just trying to point that out. Adding to what you said about Tivo's support, try and give them all the help that you can.

Personally, my apartment has a splitter or two back behind the wall someplace which weakens the signal reaching me. This causes two of my HD channels which both occupy frequencies on the edge of the range (MHD and UHD) to have intermittent A/V dropouts, sometimes lasting fractions of a second and sometimes for a couple hours. I've been meaning to get a signal amplifier to play around with but haven't yet. Anyways, it's understandable how something like this could manifest itself more or less after the software which processes the signal is changed. Come to think of it, I've noticed a higher frequency of dropouts on those channels since 8.3, but that isn't great data since I don't watch those channels a lot. Point is, the root cause isn't necessarily the software.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

I don't know if the software is causing the problem, but the problem is within the Tivo in my case. I have an HD Tivo DVR from DIRECTV (HR10-250) that I've been using for a couple of years. It's still in use as backup. Most of what I record is from local channels received over the air. Sunday night I started watching Desperate Housewives on my Series 3. There was pixilation and audio drop outs during the first few minutes. I switched over to the Directv HD Tivo and started from the beginning and there were no drop outs. The entire show was recorded perfectly. Both the Series 3 and HR10-250 use the same TV antenna which provides a solid reliable signal.


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## edge64 (Dec 23, 2006)

*Edge *. I had no pixilation prior to 8.3 but have had some since. I am only using analog cable (Knology) and OTA antenna, no cable cards. I too have compared HD cable signal (local QAM) at the same time with no pixilation.


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## AlanH220 (Aug 20, 2006)

I used to just shake my head when reading about audio breakup/pixelation on these board when I first got my S3 - had no idea what the problem was. Now I know - and can track it pretty much to my receipt of 8.3. HOWEVER - I'm in Houston on TimeWarner (soon to be Comcast) and the problem seems to affect the local ABC affiliate (KTRK) on HD cable channel 313. Boston Legal, Brothers and Sisters, Desp Housewives, Lost - the whole shebang often become unwatchable. (An old S2 in the other room is recording too on the SD channel, just in case.) No significant problems on NBC, ABC, Fox, really on any other HD station. Weird, huh?


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## rww (Apr 26, 2006)

I had no pixelation problems until about 10 days ago, but now, I have severe pixelation on all HD Locals through FIOS DC. Basically, HD programming is unwatchable. Looking at the diagnostic screen, the CableCard loses its signal about once every 1 to 5 seconds and then retunes. This causes audio dropout and pixelation.


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## raober (Sep 10, 2006)

I had LOTS of pixelation/audio drops on HD channels when I first got the S3...I use cablecards. One day, though, they magically went away almost totally. I would have one breakup per minute or more before...and now most shows are totally clean, or have one or two breakups at most per hour. I do not believe that the improvement was concurrent with a software upgrade.

I'm not an expert by any means. My feeling, though, is that the tuners on the S3 are very sensitive beasts and respond a bit more to impurities in the cable signal than other tuners would. In a sense, I think *both* the cable signal and the S3 are at fault. I just wonder if Suddenlink got on the ball and cleaned up their signal in my area. Probably helps that the local cable office is only a mile down the road.


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## OzDave (Dec 10, 2006)

For me, I am noticing the audio drop outs more than anything. I came to check the forum to see if anyone else is noticing this. There has been pixelation, but not that bad. Before 8.3, I don't remember any audio drop outs. But now, it is almost unwatchable with audio. 

I am using the optical out of the TiVo to a optical switch box and I can see the audio signal coming out of the TiVo flickering. The optical switch decides that nothing is attached anymore, and switches to another connected input (the TV). 

The TV's optical out is attached to the same box. TiVo is connected to TV using HDMI. I can see the signal level from the TV flicker too.


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## JPBOSS (Mar 8, 2007)

I can confirm that it's not a cable signal/cablecard issue. I was watching a standard def Seinfeld episode last night and as I watched it everything seemed fine, however I backed up about 30 seconds a couple of times when kuckoo Kramer did something funny and the audio started dropping out every time in the same spot but it was fine when I watched it the first time through. 8.1 was almost flawless to me but since receiving the 8.3 update I have been noticing more pronounced pixelation and now the audio issue. I have been writing it off as just glitches etc. but now that I see others experiencing similar issues it makes me think that 8.3 may be buggy.

JP


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

OzDave said:


> For me, I am noticing the audio drop outs more than anything. I came to check the forum to see if anyone else is noticing this. There has been pixelation, but not that bad. Before 8.3, I don't remember any audio drop outs. But now, it is almost unwatchable with audio.


 I mentioned the pixelization/audio issues in an earlier post but we've also noticed the same thing - audio dropouts alone. They are brief, a second or two at most.

We've also noticed brief video dropouts alone (always between scenes) as well (but the audio is okay).

Our setup is Comcast cable cards (x2), optical out from TiVo to our home theater receiver and component video out from TiVo to our LCD TV.

I'll have to start recording back-ups on our DT S2 (w/8.3) to see if there are any issues on SD channels, but it appears this only happens on HD.

Again, no problems before 8.3


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## OzDave (Dec 10, 2006)

I am watching Medium recorded 4/25, and it plays perfect. I had a Service Update on 5/11. I am not sure if that was the 8.3 update, but I am guessing so.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

hddude55 said:


> It seems that many of us are convinced that 8.3 is somehow causing sustained pixelation and audio drops in machines that previously worked great or at least had very sporadic problems pre-8.3. I reported this to TiVo two weeks ago and the techs didn't even seem to know pixelation/audio drops were a frequent issue, so you can imagine I didn't get much help. Instead, they sent a new Series3 my way. It is working great but is still on 8.1 and I fear what will happen when 8.3 is rolled out to it.
> 
> I know many others have already posted this issue in other threads, and it seemed like it was time to give the issue a separate discussion forum. Hopefully, TiVoPony will chime in at some point.


That would never happen. Tivo is perfect. Why, no software update that they've ever done has caused that (obviously I'm being sarcastic as I was one of the victims of the update on the Series 2 that did the same thing when nobody would believe that it was the update that did it).

Hopefully they'll fix the software soon. (I doubt it, I think in the last case it took them 2-3 months to send the fix out).


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## wackymann (Sep 22, 2006)

I have been having audio dropouts on rare occasion since 8.3 was installed. They last a couple of seconds. There is no problem with the video when this happens. I am using the analog audio outputs into my TV. I also have the digital audio hooked up to my receiver, but I rarely turn that on while watching TV.


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## PeytonRE (Oct 23, 2006)

edge64 said:


> *Edge *. I had no pixilation prior to 8.3 but have had some since. I am only using analog cable (Knology) and OTA antenna, no cable cards. I too have compared HD cable signal (local QAM) at the same time with no pixilation.


This is exactly the same as my situation -- analog cable (Knology) and OTA antenna, with the only pixilation that I notice being on the OTA HD channels post 8.3. For the most part, the pixilation has only been a nuisance; however, there has been a couple of shows that have been so bad that I resorted to watching the the show on one of my TIVO series 2 ( I try to make sure I have redundant copies of shows I really care about  )


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## slr (May 25, 2007)

rww said:


> I had no pixelation problems until about 10 days ago, but now, I have severe pixelation on all HD Locals through FIOS DC. Basically, HD programming is unwatchable. Looking at the diagnostic screen, the CableCard loses its signal about once every 1 to 5 seconds and then retunes. This causes audio dropout and pixelation.


Same problem here. My problem started last Friday. Severe pixelation on all HD Locals through FIOS DC. Same behavior when looking at signal strength. Had Verizon come out to troubleshoot. CableCard inserted directly in my TV has no issues. Same card activated in my Tivo box has the pixelation problem.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

No pixelation for me before 8.3. I did have audio drop outs before 8.3 and still do with 8.3. But I have a lot of pixelation with 8.3 that I did not have prior to 8.3.


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## JerryL (Jul 1, 2002)

After the 8.3 upgrade, I have severe pixelation on HBO & CSN. I have Verizon Fios and I never had a problem before. The sinal thru my Moto boxes are fine, just problems on my S3 Tivo and just the two stations.


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## Digibean (Mar 13, 2007)

I seem to be having the same issue with pixelation, mostly on HD channels. I didn't have 8.1 very long before 8.3 came along, so I don't have a good baseline. But I know that I do have the pixelation and audio drop-out for 1 to 2 seconds about 3 or 4 times per hour of recorded show.


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## craigdobs (Jan 30, 2004)

I am having the same issues since the 8.3 update. I was having some pixelation/macroblocking issues infrequently enough not to bother me, but since the update, I have many, many channels that are completely unwatchable now. Same issue as many others here: cablecard directly installed in my TV produces no issues whatsoever, but at least 8-10 channels are a complete mess since this update. There seem to be too many issues already around here to label this a coincidence with respect to 8.3...


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## Carlos_E (Mar 12, 2007)

I had 8.3L and I was getting pixilation. I now have the final 8.3 release and so far, no pixilation.

The people who are having problems, do you have the final release?


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

I think something that some people forget when they are saying "card in TV works fine, card in S3 is glitchy, therefore it must be a software problem" is this: to allow two recordings from a single cable, the S3 has an internal splitter that decreases the strength of the signal the S3 tuners receive. If you want to try a fair test, split the signal to the TV and then test. I had similar problems at two different houses ("card in TV is fine, S3 recordings are glitchy") and they were both completely solved with signal amps.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Carlos_E said:


> I had 8.3L and I was getting pixilation. I now have the final 8.3 release and so far, no pixilation.
> 
> The people who are having problems, do you have the final release?


 We have v8.3.1 which was upgraded/installed on May 12th. We received this upgrade from v8.1x and never had the "L" version.

We are now seeing very little pixilation and audio/video dropout problems recently. This may be due to the fact that we are watching fewer HD programs now that many shows had their season finales.

Have others seen any drop off in the problems in the last week or so?


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## Carlos_E (Mar 12, 2007)

richsadams said:


> We have v8.3.1 which was upgraded/installed on May 12th. We received this upgrade from v8.1x and never had the "L" version.
> 
> We are now seeing very little pixilation and audio/video dropout problems recently. This may be due to the fact that we are watching fewer HD programs now that many shows had their season finales.
> 
> Have others seen any drop off in the problems in the last week or so?


I encoded the Star Wars marathon and I've watched 3 movies so far with no pixillation. *Keeping my fingers crossed!*


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## mrisher (Mar 19, 2002)

I've been experiencing the same problem -- pronounced audio drop-outs of up to two seconds, accompanied by some pixelation -- on my 8.3.1 software. 

Strangely -- and I don't know if anyone else is reporting this -- the problem is notably more pronounced on HBO-HD than on any of the network HD broadcasts. Is Cablecard and/or TiVo was doing more work to decode the premium channels...?


Comcast was out here for about 90 minutes last week, and the tech replaced the splitter, wiring, and cable cards, but he could not resolve the issue. His test device did not detect any errors and reported a 98% signal strength, but still the glitches appear every 5-10 minutes on HBO-HD.

Sorry for the "me-too" post; hopefully some of the additional information I've provided will help troubleshoot this.

Thank you.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Carlos_E said:


> I encoded the Star Wars marathon and I've watched 3 movies so far with no pixillation. *Keeping my fingers crossed!*


 We've done the same...and no problems to report. :up:

It's been a little over two weeks since we received the 8.3 upgrade and the problems were more acute immediately afterward. It would almost seem as if things are beginning to iron themselves out now.

I've read other posts commenting on the fact that there were problems with upgrades initially however they began to resolve in a few weeks. Hopefully that will be the case with this one.

Perhaps it would be beneficial for folks that have problems to add the date that they received the upgrade and then follow up as time goes on to let us know if things are better, worse or about the same?


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## jerryc (Feb 8, 2002)

I don't know exactly when I received the 8.3.1 update, but in the last couple of weeks almost every show has a few minutes where it is just unwatchable. The video freezes and the audio drops out. I have tried restarting the tivo, but it plays back the same, which seems to imply it is in the recording itself.

I have no proof that this is related to the 8.3 update, but the timing of all of this does make it difficult for me to believe it is a coincidence.


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## scifan (Jun 1, 2007)

I am a new convert to an S3... (moved my lifetime on Thursday night)... I checked and I'm running 8.3.1... 

I have a cable card that I ran in an old TV that I'm currently running in this unit and haven't had any issue's with the cable card in 2 years of use. The cable connectivity to my house was replaced after having challenges back when I subscribed to comcast Internet... my signal strength is really decent (97 on 104 (komo-hdtv, 96/97 on 31 espn, 97/99 on 37 history).

I just experienced audio drops on the history channel while watching a show on Star Trek...

and just experienced audio going up and down in volume on 104... but that could be a local tv station thing...

Note, my system is connected via fiber optic to my HT Receiver... and I don't experience these drops when recording show's on my vista MCE box... 

Unfortunatly I didn't have this unit long enough to have experienced pre 8.3.1 software...

No Pixelation at this point... Interesting that it appears that these issue's for others can be directly correlated to the most recent software update.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Correlation also happens with placebo's...

Pixellation and Audio dropouts are almost always signal strength issues. Comparing the S3 to other devices is irrelevent since the S3 might tune things differently/require different signal strengths.

The signal meter is mostly useless.

I'd suggest to anyone that has pixellation/audio dropouts to get themselves a good quality amp (like Viewsonics - I recommend them only because they've been like magic for me). Relatively cheap, and they do signal cleanup, not just blind signal amp like the crap from BB or RS.

Just get a good amp and watch it go away. Work to solve your problems rather than continuing to complain about them...


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## edge64 (Dec 23, 2006)

Do you have a Viewsonic amp model number?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

edge64 said:


> Do you have a Viewsonic amp model number?


I have a few - for just splitting (like with FIOS) where you don't need additional in-line amp:
VSMA608C-10R (+3db per split)

For additional amp, like with crappy cable companies:
VSA-601C (+14db in line)

For Comcast, I had the 601C first, then the 608C to split to my rooms right after.

For FIOS, I just use the 608C. Barely needed it, but I was getting some pixellation on a couple HD channels. That went away when I put it back in line.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I guess you can add me to the list. I've been having problems over the last couple weeks, and until I saw this thread, it never occurred to me it might be 8.3. I guess I'm slow to catch on. D'oh!

I had maybe 2 or 3 bad recordings in the first 8 months. In the last two weeks, I have had several (10+). And 80% of them are on one channel, 290 HDNet (in TW Houston). Could be TW, could be 8.3.

Just now, it started breaking up while 290 was on live. I changed back and forth from 290 to anything else. Every time I went back to 290, it was perfect. For 5-30 seconds. Then it would start pixellating. Once it started, it never stopped for more than 1/2 second. It's like the signal is ok for a few seconds, then some kind of toxic signal comes down the cable, and from then on it continually breaks up. It seems changing the channel resets the tuner for a few seconds.

So then I changed channels on that tuner, flipped to the other tuner, and changed it to 290. Perfect. For as long as I kept it on (several minutes), it never broke up. I then flipped back to the other tuner on 290, and it started breaking up. Only one tuner has a problem.

FYI . . .


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

astrohip said:


> I guess you can add me to the list. I've been having problems over the last couple weeks, and until I saw this thread, it never occurred to me it might be 8.3. I guess I'm slow to catch on. D'oh!


See, that's sort of the point. It's most likely just a signal issue. But with enough suggestion, people like to make coincidences.

Put a quality amp in if you have pixellation or audio drop outs and the problems will most likely go away.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> See, that's sort of the point. It's most likely just a signal issue. But with enough suggestion, people like to make coincidences.
> 
> Put a quality amp in if you have pixellation or audio drop outs and the problems will most likely go away.


But that was my point. I hadn't even thought about 8.3 being the culprit, until I saw this thread. Then I realized that I had 2/3 of a year of trouble free service, but within days of 8.3, I have a significant increase in problems.

Coincidence? Certainly could be. But I rarely believe in them.

I will try the amp. Also, is there any way to tell which tuner a show as recorded on?

BTW, I noted in another thread on this same topic, that my SA8300HD has no problems. I have even recorded the same exact broadcast on both DVRs, and had problems on the S3, but not the SA.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

astrohip said:


> But that was my point. I hadn't even thought about 8.3 being the culprit, until I saw this thread. Then I realized that I had 2/3 of a year of trouble free service, but within days of 8.3, I have a significant increase in problems.
> 
> Coincidence? Certainly could be. But I rarely believe in them.
> 
> ...


As I keep saying - different devices have different tolerances for signal strength. Pixellation is almost always a signal strength issue. Cable companies have constant variation in their signal strength to homes.

Unless Tivo does nothing forever, a chunk of people will always have a "new" signal strength issue that corresponds to a Tivo software update. It's just the law of averages.

Get a good amp and it will likely go away.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> As I keep saying - different devices have different tolerances for signal strength. Pixellation is almost always a signal strength issue. Cable companies have constant variation in their signal strength to homes.
> 
> Unless Tivo does nothing forever, a chunk of people will always have a "new" signal strength issue that corresponds to a Tivo software update. It's just the law of averages.


I agree whole-heartedly with both of these points. There will always be people for whom pixelation just starts up due to cable company doing something (and the cable companies are always doing something!). And a certain percentage of those pixelation starts will happen near a TiVo update; it's guaranteed!

Note that doesn't mean that folks shouldn't post in threads like this; these threads are the only way to tell if there was a problem with the release. But folks need to be aware that unless there's a high number of people posting, it was probably just bad luck that the pixelation started near the release. The number of folks posting in this thread is low, so there's good evidence that there's not a general problem of 8.3 increasing pixelation.


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

I'm having bad pixelation, audio dropouts, and sometimes freezing. When I first got the S3 I had the reboot cycle problem 8.1 fixed that. Unfortunately I went away to school and left my S3 at home (I didn't want to deal with the cable card installation again by taking the box with me) so I didn't really use it much while it was running 8.1. I don't know if the new software is the problem but I really hope it is because I've had the cable guy come at least 5 times already with the reboot problem just to find out it was the TiVo's fault. I love TiVo but I don't know how much more I can take of this considering I paid $800 for the box. If it doesn't work flawlessly with the next release I really have no choice but to bring it back to Costco. 

I don't have an amp but I do have a Monster Clean Powerbar, will plugging the cable into this help at all? I'm using Cablevision of South Westchester in NY, are there others on this forum who use Cablevision having similar problems? When the tech came out he measured the signal with his meter and it was very strong. It is a direct line from the utility pole.

Thanks in advance for any advise and hopefully someone who can do something about this problem reads this thread.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> Note that doesn't mean that folks shouldn't post in threads like this; these threads are the only way to tell if there was a problem with the release. But folks need to be aware that unless there's a high number of people posting, it was probably just bad luck that the pixelation started near the release. The number of folks posting in this thread is low, so there's good evidence that there's not a general problem of 8.3 increasing pixelation.


 Unfortunately there are several threads discussing audio/video problems users have been experiencing since the 8.3 update; in fairness to them the numbers are not "low" and there is in fact good evidence that something is amiss.



AbMagFab said:


> Just get a good amp and watch it go away. Work to solve your problems rather than continuing to complain about them...


 And if someones car starts running poorly after a tune-up they should just take a taxi and get over it?

It was already stated in earlier posts that these issues have all of the earmarks of poor signal quality. However a strong argument can also be made that the problem is not due to weak television signals that suddenly materialized across the country, but that something in the most recent FW update has caused a signal processing problem with TiVo. There is documentation of issues with prior TiVo FW releases which were ultimately addressed. This may or may not be the case with the 8.3x update and thats why discussing this should be encouraged.

People have the right to post valuable details about specific problems on this thread and should not be intimidated or branded complainers. Possible explanations and suggestions are always welcomed and appreciated. Blanket statements that attempt to invalidate others thoughts and experiences are not helpful.

That said the bottom line is that this and other discussions about audio/video problems are by TiVo users that had little or no problems prior to the 8.3 update. Is it all a coincidence? Possibly, possibly not but the discussion is valid and should continue.

Thanks very much to those that have taken the time to relate their experiences. :up:


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately there are several threads discussing audio/video problems users have been experiencing since the 8.3 update; in fairness to them the numbers are not "low" and there is in fact good evidence that something is amiss.


That's my only disagreement with your post; I agree with most of what you are saying.

There have been threads discussing audio/video problems that sudenly start up throughout S3 history. I don't regard the number of people reporting problems tied to 8.3 as being large. There seems to have been the normal number of people recovering from pixelation, including those that credit 8,3 at solving their pixelation problems. If there was a general problem such that good signals from the cable company now cause pixelation because of 8.3, there would be a lot more complaints then there are.

I don't rule out the possibility that TiVo has tweaked the signal handling and what had been very marginal signals are now causing more pixelation for a very few people; it's absolutely impossible to rule out that possibility. But the evidence is strongly against the conjecture that good signals are now being handled poorly enough with 8.3 to cause pixelation. Anybody who believes that pixelation doesn't come and go due to the cable company or network should spend some time with the "local" HD threads in avsforum, which track pixelation problems (on non-S3 machines!).

Any time people notice a problem and there's been a recent release, the release will be targeted as a potential cause of the problem. Once it develops a crititcal mass, then more people will report confirming evidence that they normally wouldn't have bothered reporting. That happens on just about every TiVo release. I've been involved in a large number of "the latest release caused my disk to start malfunctioning" threads over the years; the pattern is clear.

Again, I do not want to discourage people from reporting their problems in this thread; they absolutely should. Conjectures that 8.3 is at fault are perfectly fine; I have no problem with that. My only issue is with those concluding from the reports here that 8.3 is at fault; there just isn't sufficient evidence to do that.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:



> Again, I do not want to discourage people from reporting their problems in this thread; they absolutely should. Conjectures that 8.3 is at fault are perfectly fine; I have no problem with that. My only issue is with those concluding from the reports here that 8.3 is at fault; there just isn't sufficient evidence to do that.


 Well said, appreciated and understood.

The argument could be made that only a small percentage of TiVo owners actually visit this forum, an even smaller percentage of those are prone to joining/posting and every post that does appear represents a much larger element of the cumulative total. Conversely you could also make a case that "enthusiasts" are more likely to make some noise about a perceived problem that may or may not exist. So deciding where the line is drawn using empirical evidence to conclude that a problem is real or not is difficult at best.

Our personal experience is such that we saw no audio/video problems prior to the 8.3 FW upgrade. Perhaps we were just lucky for many months. However on May 12th we received the upgrade and suddenly saw pixelization and audio drop-outs starting that very day (on most HD programming) and it continued for a little more than two weeks thereafter. Based on other posts our experience is not unlike many others. The good news (for us) is that these problems have tapered off and are now very infrequent. This is hard to explain logically as problems like this rarely resolve themselves. However I know we're still interested in hearing about the experiences of others and hopefully everyone can benefit from the input and feedback process. :up:


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

AbMagFab said:


> See, that's sort of the point. It's most likely just a signal issue. But with enough suggestion, people like to make coincidences.
> 
> Put a quality amp in if you have pixellation or audio drop outs and the problems will most likely go away.


 Signal strength and other factors may explain many of these problems but why do you discount all of these reports about 8.3 also being a potential culprit? This has happened to me on two series3 machines, i.e., no problems with 8.1 followed by severe problems with 8.3. Discount my problems if you want, but hopefully TiVo techs are paying attention to these many reports. I hope all of you experiencing these problems hound TiVo and your cable provider.

It also bothers me that your solution to these many problems would be buying amplifiers. If the average non-techie TV-watcher is expected to shop for signal amplifiers to make his TiVo work, something the heck is wrong with the design of the series3 TiVo box or software inside.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> The number of folks posting in this thread is low, so there's good evidence that there's not a general problem of 8.3 increasing pixelation.


 And what percentage of TiVo owners experiencing problems do you suppose ever post in this forum? I'd bet it's less than 10%.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

hddude55 said:


> Signal strength and other factors may explain many of these problems but why do you discount all of these reports about 8.3 also being a potential culprit? This has happened to me on two series3 machines, i.e., no problems with 8.1 followed by severe problems with 8.3. Discount my problems if you want, but hopefully TiVo techs are paying attention to these many reports. I hope all of you experiencing these problems hound TiVo and your cable provider.
> 
> It also bothers me that your solution to these many problems would be buying amplifiers. If the average non-techie TV-watcher is expected to shop for signal amplifiers to make his TiVo work, something the heck is wrong with the design of the series3 TiVo box or software inside.


#1 - I have been careful not to say "all" I think. There are certainly *some* combinations of things that could be caused/exacerbated by 8.3. However *most* are signal related, and even signal related issues could have been exacerbated by 8.3.

#2 - Signal issues are reality with cable. DirecTV/Dish has far less of this because each box is powered, and they force a no-splitting/home-run model (only devices specifically used for satellite splitting can split the signal, and they are usually powered). Since cable allows you to split as much as you want, and as poorly as you want (most splitters lose 3-7db each split), you are going to add signal issues. And since most non-FIOS cable starts with a lousy signal entering the house, you've got a problem from the start.

Bottom line - with DirecTV and Dish, signal issues are focused on the dish itself, usually not the house infrastructure (except bad connections). With cable, especially digital cable, signal issues are all over the place, and poor/dirty signal issues can make it worse.

With analog cable, signal issues were just a slightly crappier picture on some channels, but you'd get something. With cable-card installs, they are mostly digital. And for many, this is their first deep step into HD and digital cable.

So yes, the average non-techie needs to get a signal amp with cable, and many of them buy them at radio shack (which might be okay for most). I'm recommending that you buy a quality amp since it will have the most effective improvement in the signal all over your house.

Or you can just continue to complain and do nothing but blame the invisible rabbit.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

Based on recent experience, I suspect that signal strength is not the only issue and am ready to agree that the S3 itself may be contributing to the audio dropout-pixelization problem. In my installation, I have had no such problems worthy of the name with anything I receive via cable. Unfortunately, I must watch ABCs HD programming via OTA because the owner of the local ABC affiliate and Cox OKC cant agree on terms to allow Cox to carry their HD programming.

I have had no problems with either audio or video reception via any OTA HD channel other than the local ABC affiliate. On several occasions a couple of weeks ago the problems with ABC programming became so severe that my S3 stopped recording on several shows I had wanted to watch. Then, I moved my antenna, rabbit ears because the TV towers are not far from my house, to a higher spot in my viewing room and signal strength increased to 95-100 and the worst of the problems cleared up. But over the past couple of days audio dropouts and pixelization have become so severe again that its impossible to follow either the dialog or what is happening on the screen. I recorded Minority Report last night and while it looked and sounded great between dropouts, the dropouts and video glitches were so frequent that I had to give up on watching the show after about 20 minutes.

The first thing this morning, I again checked the signal strength for the ABC affiliate and it was still running between 95 and 100, which is where its been ever since I moved my antenna. Thus, my earlier conclusion that my problem was a signal strength issue is now questionable.

I probably should add that Cox OKC has a signal amp running in my house, which may be contributing to my lack of trouble with its HD channels.


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## evlg (Jun 26, 2002)

I have had a miserable experience with S3 and FIOS since I bought the thing in October. Non-stop pixellation problems with various HD channels at different times, in addition to the rewind bugs. I was ready to give up on it until a couple of months ago when a TiVo update seemingly magically fixed all the problems. The RW/FF skipping around behavior was fixed, and the HD channels all displayed perfectly all the time.

About a week ago the pixellation problems came back. I have had some version on 8.3 for a while, so I can't say whether or not I suspect the software update had anything to do with it.

Fed up with it, I decided to remove a cablecard and put it in the TV (FIOS here will still work if you switch cards around between devices). I put the card in the TV and all the channels work fine (as I write this, 148 DCHOME and 851 HBOHD are pixellating on TiVo but not TV). Tried various combinations of cables, CableCARDs, etc... and concluded that when the TiVo is tuning, pixellation happens.

At first this seems like the smoking gun, but then I read this thread and some people are insisting the problem is somehow signal strength, even though my TV works fine. How can I verify this?


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

I've had pixel/audio drop out since I got my S3 last year (had the problem in every software release). My signal is fine according to the readings in the S3 information screen. I get these dropouts on every show I watch and they happen at least every couple of minutes. I've never seen this problem on any of my other TV's that aren't using an S3. It's my number one problem with my S3. I really don't care if Tivo adds any new features to the S3 as this is the only thing I want fixed.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Folks - this is not complicated. Get a quality signal amp.

The Tivo has it's own tuner. All tuners have different tolerances for tuning things in. I'm not saying the Tivo isn't different than your CC TV or SA/Moto box, I'm not even saying it's a good or bad tuner, but I am saying that pixellation/audio drop outs are almost always signal problems.

Swapping to a TV, or comparing to a Moto/SA box, or looking at the signal strength will tell you only if it's a horrible problem. Otherwise, the pixellation itself is telling you you have a signal problem when using the Tivo's tuner.

Get a quality amp, possibly an attenuator, and things will clear up.

(As for the FF/RW issue with FIOS, that was something else, and was clearly a software issue when it arose, and was acknowledged improved/fixed with 8.3.)


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Folks - this is not complicated. Get a quality signal amp.
> 
> The Tivo has it's own tuner. All tuners have different tolerances for tuning things in. I'm not saying the Tivo isn't different than your CC TV or SA/Moto box, I'm not even saying it's a good or bad tuner, but I am saying that pixellation/audio drop outs are almost always signal problems.
> 
> ...


An amp wont necessarily 'clear things up'. The Tivo tuner seems to be getting tripped up by 'something' but its unclear what that 'something' is... but for me... it is NOT signal strength. I have varied signal strength from -7 to +7dbmv with absolutely no change in the issue.


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## evlg (Jun 26, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Folks - this is not complicated. Get a quality signal amp.
> 
> The Tivo has it's own tuner. All tuners have different tolerances for tuning things in. I'm not saying the Tivo isn't different than your CC TV or SA/Moto box, I'm not even saying it's a good or bad tuner, but I am saying that pixellation/audio drop outs are almost always signal problems.
> 
> ...


This is going to sound dumb, but what does it mean to get a quality signal amp/attenuator?

Is this something that I plug in between the wall and TiVo? Is this something I plug in between the ONT and the house coax network? How do I know if I have one currently? How do I know if it is inadequate? Where would I find a good one?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Folks - this is not complicated. Get a quality signal amp.


 This subject is obviously frustrating and we can all appreciate your well-meaning intentions. However, repeating the same mantra is not helping no matter how many times it's posted or how many ways its stated. An amp may or may not fix the issue for others, but a blanket statement saying that spending money and time on installing an amp is the elixir to fix everything is simplistic.

Many of us are pleased that an amp is working for you...assuming that your TiVo was experiencing the recent audio/video problems that others are talking about in this and other threads.

There is empirical evidence that there is a problem that didn't exist before the most recent FW upgrade to 8.3x - however small or widespread. Be it poor signal strength (in which case the cable companies should be held responsible IMHO, but may benefit from a signal amp), cable cards, TiVos signal processing, , etc. which needs to be addressed.

We all appreciate everyones advice and those that wish to follow any of it should post their results. Others that believe that they should not have to buy third party products to make their TiVo work as it did prior to the last FW upgrade will continue to sort things out.

Thank you...again.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

evlg said:


> About a week ago the pixellation problems came back. I have had some version on 8.3 for a while, so I can't say whether or not I suspect the software update had anything to do with it.
> 
> Fed up with it, I decided to remove a cablecard and put it in the TV (FIOS here will still work if you switch cards around between devices). I put the card in the TV and all the channels work fine (as I write this, 148 DCHOME and 851 HBOHD are pixellating on TiVo but not TV). Tried various combinations of cables, CableCARDs, etc... and concluded that when the TiVo is tuning, pixellation happens.
> 
> At first this seems like the smoking gun, but then I read this thread and some people are insisting the problem is somehow signal strength, even though my TV works fine. How can I verify this?


 Thank you for the well-thought out post as well as your experimentation efforts and results. :up: It would seem youve carefully documented the problem already. It would also seem to me that this is a prefect opportunity to call TiVo and let them know exactly what you did and see what they have to say.

Several people have posted messages saying that they have tried to raise the issue with TiVo without a positive result, but the longer this goes on the more I'm inclined to say that we should just continue to call TiVo and let them deal with it. The more incident reports they have the higher its position on their "to do" list. We may not get satisfaction right away, but I have to believe that it won't be ignored.

As others have stated, the number of people visiting and posting on this site regarding this issue would be a very small percentage of all TiVo owners. The unknown is how many people on this forum or in total have actually filed a complaint with TiVo. There is power in numbers, so it's probably time to start making some noise.


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## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

I've had the problem of audio dropouts followed (after 2 seconds) by a burst of video noise ever since I've had my unit. I haven't noticed any changes since 8.3. It sounds like some people had no issues before 8.3 and then got them after...that sucks. As for me, it's the same intermittent (let's say once per half hour on average) glitch, with the occasional program (usually Veronica Mars on HD local channel 5, the WB) glitching constantly to the point of severe annoyance or unwatchability.

I'm really tempted to try a signal amp after reading whatshisname's post. If I do, I'll post back whether it worked or not. If anyone else with glitching issues tries a quality amp, please post results. We shouldn't all go buy amps if they don't fix the issue.


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## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

Alright, everyone, just pulled the plug on a VSMA-601C line amp. $60 shipped. In a couple weeks I'll post back on whether it fixed my glitching issue.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Thank you for the well-thought out post as well as your experimentation efforts and results. :up: It would seem youve carefully documented the problem already. It would also seem to me that this is a prefect opportunity to call TiVo and let them know exactly what you did and see what they have to say.
> 
> Several people have posted messages saying that they have tried to raise the issue with TiVo without a positive result, but the longer this goes on the more I'm inclined to say that we should just continue to call TiVo and let them deal with it. The more incident reports they have the higher its position on their "to do" list. We may not get satisfaction right away, but I have to believe that it won't be ignored.
> 
> As others have stated, the number of people visiting and posting on this site regarding this issue would be a very small percentage of all TiVo owners. The unknown is how many people on this forum or in total have actually filed a complaint with TiVo. There is power in numbers, so it's probably time to start making some noise.


Here is the data I compiled and supplied to Tivo several months ago....

Since this was written, I also put a cablecard in my TV. It exhibited no glitches or pixelations. I also eliminated the house amp altogether and connected the Tivo directly to the TWC drop. No difference. Tivo was informed of thiese facts also.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> An amp wont necessarily 'clear things up'. The Tivo tuner seems to be getting tripped up by 'something' but its unclear what that 'something' is... but for me... it is NOT signal strength. I have varied signal strength from -7 to +7dbmv with absolutely no change in the issue.


I agree that an amp "won't necessarily 'clear things up.'" As noted in my last post, the OTA HD signal I receive from my local ABC affiliate runs between 95 and 100 on my S3s signal strength meter. Nevertheless, I consistently get BAD sound dropouts and pixelization on that channel. Thus, Its hard to see how signal strength could be the issue. I had to quit watching my recording of last nights Brothers & Sisters episode because of the problem. It got so bad near the end of the show that my S3 dropped the recording at 58 minutes after the hour. Not good.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

gwsat said:


> I agree that an amp "won't necessarily 'clear things up.'" As noted in my last post, the OTA HD signal I receive from my local ABC affiliate runs between 95 and 100 on my S3s signal strength meter. Nevertheless, I consistently get BAD sound dropouts and pixelization on that channel. Thus, Its hard to see how signal strength could be the issue. I had to quit watching my recording of last nights Brothers & Sisters episode because of the problem. It got so bad near the end of the show that my S3 dropped the recording at 58 minutes after the hour. Not good.


For OTA, the game changes a bit. For what you describe, you are likely experiencing multipath. What kind of antenna are you using? If you station location allows, a more directional antenna but with just enough gain would likely be the best choice so as to attenuate/reject off axis reflections. Im using a yagi with corner reflector. It has a narrower beam width than a bowtie type antenna. As the weather changed, I had to turn my antenna about 10-15 degrees to eliminate some newly appeared dropouts. You might try doing some re-aiming.

For all its other issues, with analog TV you could usually identify the problems fairly easily since ghosts, snow etc were pretty easy to see. With digital TV, its a whole new ballgame.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

AbMagFab said:


> So yes, the average non-techie needs to get a signal amp with cable, and many of them buy them at radio shack (which might be okay for most). I'm recommending that you buy a quality amp since it will have the most effective improvement in the signal all over your house.
> 
> Or you can just continue to complain and do nothing but blame the invisible rabbit.


I have explained that I have talked to Cox Cable and TiVo many times about the problem. I also sought out this forum and have tried to learn from it. Ironically, TiVo tech support -- which should be the real technical experts -- immediately shipped a new box to me even after I told them I was skeptical that anything was wrong with the box since the problems not so coincidentally started immediately after 8.3 was installed. I now have a new box and the same thing happened -- no problems until 8.1 was upgraded to 8.3, then immediate problems. Now that it has happened twice on two new machines, I don't think I'm blaming invisible rabbits and I resent your snide personal attack.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

hddude55 said:


> I have explained that I have talked to Cox Cable and TiVo many times about the problem. I also sought out this forum and have tried to learn from it. Ironically, TiVo tech support -- which should be the real technical experts -- immediately shipped a new box to me even after I told them I was skeptical that anything was wrong with the box since the problems not so coincidentally started immediately after 8.3 was installed. I now have a new box and the same thing happened -- no problems until 8.1 was upgraded to 8.3, then immediate problems. Now that it has happened twice on two new machines, I don't think I'm blaming invisible rabbits and I resent your snide personal attack.


 Well put. :up:

So you're saying that your "new" S3 shipped with FW v8.1 and everything was fine; no audio/video problems correct? Then when the FW was updated to 8.3 problems ensued?

If that's your experience it's as clear a case of there being an issue with the 8.3 upgrade as anyone could hope for. (And it should cause the nay-sayers and continual doubters to reconsider their stubborn positions.) 

Couple of quick questions...Have you discussed this with TiVo Support again and if so what was their response? Also, can you keep us posted on any additional degradation or improvements?

As previously mentioned we experienced the very same issues, however after several weeks they have subsided and are now infrequent. Why things improved is anyone's guess. The odd audio/video problems we are experiencing now could be chalked up to "normal" digital signal issues (always with HD) which are to be expected. The same thing may happen with your TiVo in time so hang in there! 

Thanks for posting. :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> Here is the data I compiled and supplied to Tivo several months ago....
> 
> Since this was written, I also put a cablecard in my TV. It exhibited no glitches or pixelations. I also eliminated the house amp altogether and connected the Tivo directly to the TWC drop. No difference. Tivo was informed of these facts also.


 Wow! If only more people would document their experiences like that. Clear, concise and any tech should be able to discern that there is a problem and hopefully diagnose the cause. Well done. :up:

Sooooowhat does TiVo have to say?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Wow! If only more people would document their experiences like that. Clear, concise and any tech should be able to discern that there is a problem and hopefully diagnose the cause. Well done. :up:
> 
> Sooooowhat does TiVo have to say?


So far....... Zilch.. Zero.... Nada....

Its in the queue but low priority... nobody else seems to have this issue so its low priority.


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## rww (Apr 26, 2006)

I previously reported (in this thread) pixelation and audio dropouts with FIOS DC cable that coincided with my upgrade to 8.3. My cable signal is strong according to Verizon, and a Motorola box can receive and play those channels without a problem. According to my S3, the channel strength ranges from about 84 to 97; however, the signal is repeatedly lost, forcing the cablecard to retune at least once every few seconds and many times more frequently. 

I purchased the Radio Shack 8db cable amplifier and tried it with no change. I then purchased a 50 foot cable and ran it directly from the FIOS ONT to the S3---again no change. I've ordered a F-type terminator and some 6db attenuators. 

I have not called TiVo, because I do not want my new S3 box swapped with a refurbished one unless there is truly an S3 hardware problem. 

Are there any suggestions for anything else to try?


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> For OTA, the game changes a bit. For what you describe, you are likely experiencing multipath. What kind of antenna are you using? If you station location allows, a more directional antenna but with just enough gain would likely be the best choice so as to attenuate/reject off axis reflections. Im using a yagi with corner reflector. It has a narrower beam width than a bowtie type antenna. As the weather changed, I had to turn my antenna about 10-15 degrees to eliminate some newly appeared dropouts. You might try doing some re-aiming.
> 
> For all its other issues, with analog TV you could usually identify the problems fairly easily since ghosts, snow etc were pretty easy to see. With digital TV, its a whole new ballgame.


My house is located less than five miles from the antennas so, even with the simple combined rabbit ears and loop antenna I use, I get a very strong signal, 95 to 100. The local ABC affiliate, KOCO DT, creates another problem, it is a VHF station in a UHF world.

The other HD transmissions I watch OTA are the Fox and CW affiliates, KOKH DT and KOCB DT, respectively. They are fine, no matter where I have the antenna.

Because of my KOCO problem, I changed both the location in the room and orientation of my rabbit ears but everything remained nearly the same: ABC stuff is a mess while Fox and CW programs are perfect, or nearly so.

KOCO DT has created a lot of problems for folks, including some complaints of not being to receive it at all. Because of another station in Lawton, OK, which is southwest of OKC, KOCO must reduce the power of its transmission in that direction. Given my closeness to the tower and apparent strength of my signal, however, I cant imagine that factor is hurting me.

Because of the strength and consistency of KOCOs signal, according to the S3s signal strength meter anyway, and my trouble free reception of Fox and CW programs, I am not enthusiastic about complicating my life with an external antenna. Further, even with rabbit ears, I have never had the kind of problems with KOCO that I have experienced with my S3 with OTA via the built in HD tuners in either of my HDTVs.

I suppose I should be grateful that I havent had any trouble with CableCARD reception but my constant problem with KOCO is making me crazy.

*EDIT: * In rereading the foregoing I realized that I have heretofore failed to say in this thread that KOCO DT was perfect from the time I installed my S3 in early January until I received Version 8.3 of the TiVo software. Now thats suspicious!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> So far....... Zilch.. Zero.... Nada....
> 
> Its in the queue but low priority... nobody else seems to have this issue so its low priority.


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## dvdwilly (Jun 5, 2007)

Hi. I am new to the forum but have been experiencing problems with pixelation and audio dropouts. However, I do not believe that it is due to our Series 3 recorder. I have to wonder how many people experiencing this problem are incorrectly blaming the Series 3. Let me give you the whole story...

We live in a new development in Haymarket, VA. It was originally serviced by a company called Advance Broadband--a subsidiary of Toll Brothers, the developer. We moved in on April 19, 2007. At the beginning of March, 2007 Comcast began taking over the community cable services. We subscribed to the Comcast digital cable service including HD and HBO. The first box that we got was a Scientific Atlanta 8300 with HDMI output. I wired it up with HDMI for the Panasonic plasma TV, and used the optical digital audio output from the unit to drive a Yamaha YSP-1000. Is it full surround? No, but the spousal approval factor is way up there compared to the full Klipsch setup that I was running in our previous house. The Klipsch rig will go in the home theater as soon as I get it built.

I digress--there were issues with the Comcast DVR and recording service--Tivo it ain't. The SA8300 just wasn't getting it AND we were experiencing pixelation and audio dropouts. So, I couldn't stand it any longer and got a new Tivo Series 3 recorder. I got new cable cards from Comcast--their tech had to install them--company policy--and there were several rounds of installation call backs before they worked right. I will provide details to anyone interested or with similar issues with Comcast (Manassas). Once that was squared away, beautiful picture and audio HOWEVER we still experience pixelation and audio drop outs in what would appear to be an identical way that we did before.

My take--the source is not the Tivo unit, but Comcast itself. I know from some other forums that this has been an issue for Comcast nationwide. For a number of reasons, I intend to go Verizon FIOS (which I have had before but is not yet available here...) as soon as it becomes available in our community.

To be fair about it, I suspect that some of the digital errors are not actually Comcast's fault, but simply a pass-through of a network's or local subsidiary's glitch. I have not tried to analyze it to the extent of which channels or at what time, but if it becomes enough of a nuisance, I will.

Bottom line--kick Comcast (or your cable subscription service) before you kick your Tivo unit--or just wait it out--surely it will get better. Yes, I still believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, etc. 

I hope that this helps alleve somebody's frustration.

Bill C.


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

dvdwilly said:


> Hi. I am new to the forum but have been experiencing problems with pixelation and audio dropouts. However, I do not believe that it is due to our Series 3 recorder. I have to wonder how many people experiencing this problem are incorrectly blaming the Series 3. Let me give you the whole story...
> 
> We live in a new development in Haymarket, VA. It was originally serviced by a company called Advance Broadband--a subsidiary of Toll Brothers, the developer. We moved in on April 19, 2007. At the beginning of March, 2007 Comcast began taking over the community cable services. We subscribed to the Comcast digital cable service including HD and HBO. The first box that we got was a Scientific Atlanta 8300 with HDMI output. I wired it up with HDMI for the Panasonic plasma TV, and used the optical digital audio output from the unit to drive a Yamaha YSP-1000. Is it full surround? No, but the spousal approval factor is way up there compared to the full Klipsch setup that I was running in our previous house. The Klipsch rig will go in the home theater as soon as I get it built.
> 
> ...




I totally disagree with your analysis. There are many posts with details to show this is not the case with most of us that are having the problem. Perhaps you may wish to read more of these posts.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Likewise, I have the problem and use an over the air TV antenna. The same antenna feeds my Tivo Series 3 and my Directv HR10-250 HD Tivo. Both HD Tivos record the same shows. Several times I've had to stop watching on the Series3 and switch over to the Directv HD-Tivo, which records the same shows with no issues at all.


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## pfibiger (Apr 24, 2007)

I've got a brand new S3 (just moved up from an ancient S1 on an old CRT), and I've been experiencing dropouts a fair amount. They're exacerbated by my hdmi switching receiver, when I get the dropouts it loses dolby digital and has to reacquire, so it seems to take about a second.

I had my cable co (brighthouse in central florida) come out and try to fix the problem..the house had been wired for maybe 8 cable outlets, I had them cut out the splitter and for the time being only wire to the one outlet I'm using. He gave me a higher quality patch cable and I got rid of my little right-angle adapter in an attempt to get rid of any extraneous items that might be degrading signal quality. My signal went up from I think it was like -10 or -7 low and -4 high to +4 to +8 or so (the lower numbers were recorded on the high def channels).

All of that happened, but I'm still seeing the dropouts, maybe 1 every 5 minutes on high def channels. The cable guy said that they could potentially rewire inside my house, or run a new line from the pole to my house if I still had problems, which I may do, but would an amp help me in this circumstance? It seems like I'm already on the high side of where I should be, and an amp could cause more problems than it solves..but if the tivo is splitting internally, who knows what the signal looks like inside.

Thanks for any advice!


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

As most people indicate in this thread, the problem appears to be with in the Tivo and not a signal issue. I recommend you stop wasting your time on changing your cable TV signal.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

Runch Machine said:


> As most people indicate in this thread, the problem appears to be with in the Tivo and not a signal issue. I recommend you stop wasting your time on changing your cable TV signal.


Where has this been definitively isolated as a Tivo problem for all these people? Trying to exclude other causes is absolutely NOT a waste of time and is what any responsible person with at least some technical inclination should do before throwing around conclusions here or to Tivo. There is absolutely not enough of a sample size nor the additional detailed background information, setup, and troubleshooting steps taken in EACH case which would be necessary to draw any kind of informed conclusion. Based on the lack of this information in most of the complaints, it is almost certain that many of these cases are likely caused by completely different things (in fact I can prove this since I have had these symptoms and it was NOT caused by the Tivo; signal amp fixed me). Causes for audio/video signal dropouts as described can potentially be from cable signal problems, splitters and surge protectors, interference from other electronics, defects or user error in the TV, defects or user error in the A/V receiver (if used), defective cable, CABLECARD hardware defect, CABLECARD configuration problem, Tivo software problem, or a Tivo hardware defect. Just because something started or worsened soon after a software patch, it does not mean that the patch was the cause. I work in IT and have seen this get people into trouble again and again, blaming something on the easy answer when it was just a coincidence and the cause was something completely unrelated. Whining that this is all Tivo's fault without eliminating the other causes is not helpful and is an irresponisible thing to tell people looking for help here.


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## wgw (May 16, 2007)

My dropouts seem to have pratically disappeared since I accidentally erased my hard drive and had to start over with a fresh image copy from the original drive. Running WD diagnostics showed there was no problem with the 500GB RE drive. 

Is it coincidence that this seems to have fixed the problem? I have no idea.

What's different about my new installation:

1. I used MFSLive 1.1 instead of dd command and MFSTools 2.0 to upgrade the drive.

2. New installation was upgraded to version 8.3.1 within one hour of initial setup.

3. Drive was not full of recordings and season passes when the upgrade to 8.3.1 was made. There was virtually no space left on the old drive.

4. Previous installation was 4 months old.

5. Internal hard drive is now 2 WD 500GB RE drives in a Thecus N2050 box in raid 0 striping configuration and connected to the internal drive port using a 6ft shielded sata to esata cable. 

I suppose this poses lots of possibilities for why the problem stopped with my setup. Did networks and cable company fix their problems? Could separating the drive from the Tivo and using a shielded cable have eliminated EM/RF interference? Tivo now has extra power since it is not powering an internal drive. Did MFSTools result in a problem during upgrade to 8.3.1? Did upgrade "take" better since drive was fresh? Were original problems the result of fragmented drive.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

dvdwilly said:


> Hi. I am new to the forum but have been experiencing problems with pixelation and audio dropouts. However, I do not believe that it is due to our Series 3 recorder. I have to wonder how many people experiencing this problem are incorrectly blaming the Series 3. Let me give you the whole story...
> 
> We live in a new development in Haymarket, VA. It was originally serviced by a company called Advance Broadband--a subsidiary of Toll Brothers, the developer. We moved in on April 19, 2007. At the beginning of March, 2007 Comcast began taking over the community cable services. We subscribed to the Comcast digital cable service including HD and HBO. The first box that we got was a Scientific Atlanta 8300 with HDMI output. I wired it up with HDMI for the Panasonic plasma TV, and used the optical digital audio output from the unit to drive a Yamaha YSP-1000. Is it full surround? No, but the spousal approval factor is way up there compared to the full Klipsch setup that I was running in our previous house. The Klipsch rig will go in the home theater as soon as I get it built.
> 
> ...





ehardman said:


> I totally disagree with your analysis. There are many posts with details to show this is not the case with most of us that are having the problem. Perhaps you may wish to read more of these posts.


Bill C. -- I thought that your post was sensible and would be the last to resort to a meanspirited claim that the only reason you think as you do is that you have not read the posts in this thread. I HAVE read them and still think that you may have a point.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

richsadams said:


> Well put. :up:
> 
> So you're saying that your "new" S3 shipped with FW v8.1 and everything was fine; no audio/video problems correct? Then when the FW was updated to 8.3 problems ensued?
> 
> ...


Yes, for some odd reason the replacement series3 loaded 8.1 initially during guided setup, and remained on it for about 10 ten days. The problems arose -- as far as as I can tell -- immediately after the upgrade to 8.3, certainly the same day of the upgrade. And that's what seemed to be the situation with my first machine, although of course I wasn't monitoring the situation then, so it's hard to recall if problems arose immediately or a day or two after 8.3 installed -- but it definitely wasn't more than a day or two later.

Yes, I did talk to TiVo tech support about the second machine's problems and they tried to help on the phone, but so far didn't come up with any answers, so I just asked that they please report my experience. I will keep contacting them periodically until it is fixed and will stay with this group until then, as well.


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

Isn't there a way for folks to revert back to the previous software, say, 8.1.xxxxx.

I guess it would be possible if folks have imaged the software on a backup disk but they would lose their recordings? 

Or can one use a linux system and replace only the older tivo "operating system" (8.1.xxx) while leaving recordings in place?

Is there anyway to confirm that Tivo really has this information and is NOT investigating it - but just ignoring it? Maybe they are working with some users on this problem? I presume Tivo could restore firmware on some units just as they UPgrade firmware, they can DOWNgrade it?

I have pixelation issues but my Tivo is too new and 8.3 came along too soon for me to blame the Tivo and not the OTA reception. But the TV does not show pixelation (antenna is split with amplifier or is that, amplified antenna is split)


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

hddude55 said:


> Yes, for some odd reason the replacement series3 loaded 8.1 initially during guided setup, and remained on it for about 10 ten days. The problems arose -- as far as as I can tell -- immediately after the upgrade to 8.3, certainly the same day of the upgrade. And that's what seemed to be the situation with my first machine, although of course I wasn't monitoring the situation then, so it's hard to recall if problems arose immediately or a day or two after 8.3 installed -- but it definitely wasn't more than a day or two later.
> 
> Yes, I did talk to TiVo tech support about the second machine's problems and they tried to help on the phone, but so far didn't come up with any answers, so I just asked that they please report my experience. I will keep contacting them periodically until it is fixed and will stay with this group until then, as well.


 Cheers for that and hopefully some resolution will come of this matter. Thanks again for keeping us posted. :up:


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## SeanTivo (Sep 13, 2006)

Count me as another post 8.3 pixellation/audio droput problem. I'm noticing it more on the analog channels supplied via comcast cable.
Last night the last half of The Shield on FX was unwatchable. 

Man, what a pain in the ass this is.


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

For those who say that we shouldn't blame or call TiVo for this and should try to single out other possible problem before contacting TiVo I have one thing to say, why? The average person is not one that will put up with these problems and I assure you that while there were several things I hated about the cable co's DVR it never suffered from audio/video dropouts. I think it is TiVo's responsibility to make sure their system works with the current infrastructure and the cable company shouldn't really have to do anything besides give you a strong signal and install the cards correctly (I think after 5 visits and 3 pairs of cable cards I'm willing to rule out that this is the cable companies fault). I think everyone who has this problem should call TiVo right away so that we can get this fixed soon.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

riddick21 said:


> For those who say that we shouldn't blame or call TiVo for this and should try to single out other possible problem before contacting TiVo I have one thing to say, why? The average person is not one that will put up with these problems and I assure you that while there were several things I hated about the cable co's DVR it never suffered from audio/video dropouts. I think it is TiVo's responsibility to make sure their system works with the current infrastructure and the cable company shouldn't really have to do anything besides give you a strong signal and install the cards correctly (I think after 5 visits and 3 pairs of cable cards I'm willing to rule out that this is the cable companies fault). I think everyone who has this problem should call TiVo right away so that we can get this fixed soon.


You're living in a dream world if you believe that cable companies send out a legal signal on all channels at all times to all locations. They don't. They get their digital signal clean enough so it works with their own boxes; that's realistically all we could expect of them, pre-cablecard. Now, all of a sudden, they have to get their signal clean enough to work with other people's equipment. They haven't had to do that before, and S3 owners are paying the price.

The large majority of pixelation problems reported in this forum have been fixed by the cable company changing the signal received; in most cases by just cleaning up the signal in the customer's home. In other cases, the cable companies have cleaned up their signal for entire areas at once; there are multiple reports here of areas with severe pixelation that stopped for everybody in the area at the same time. (A number of customers in these areas had had their signal individually tested by the cable company and been told it was fine.)

To automatically assume the TiVo is at fault flies in the face of the evidence. The TiVo could indeed possibly be at fault, but most people have had their problems cleared up by the cable companies changing their signal, not by TiVo changing anything.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> You're living in a dream world if you believe that cable companies send out a legal signal on all channels at all times to all locations. They don't. They get their digital signal clean enough so it works with their own boxes; that's realistically all we could expect of them, pre-cablecard. Now, all of a sudden, they have to get their signal clean enough to work with other people's equipment. They haven't had to do that before, and S3 owners are paying the price.
> 
> The large majority of pixelation problems reported in this forum have been fixed by the cable company changing the signal received; in most cases by just cleaning up the signal in the customer's home. In other cases, the cable companies have cleaned up their signal for entire areas at once; there are multiple reports here of areas with severe pixelation that stopped for everybody in the area at the same time. (A number of customers in these areas had had their signal individually tested by the cable company and been told it was fine.)
> 
> To automatically assume the TiVo is at fault flies in the face of the evidence. The TiVo could indeed possibly be at fault, but most people have had their problems cleared up by the cable companies changing their signal, not by TiVo changing anything.


The problem with that analysis is that it suggests that only the cableco boxes are working fine.... which for me and others I know is NOT the case. Cablecard powered TV are fine... Clear QAM to TV is fine... The only thing that seems to be having problems (in my case anyway) is the S3.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

SCSIRAID said:


> The problem with that analysis is that it suggests that only the cableco boxes are working fine.... which for me and others I know is NOT the case. Cablecard powered TV are fine... Clear QAM to TV is fine... The only thing that seems to be having problems (in my case anyway) is the S3.


Exactly where did I suggest that only the cable boxes are working fine? I did not.

I agree you have one independent piece of evidence (your TV) that the cable signal can be handled. That does not imply that you are receiving a clean, legal signal; almost all hardware handles some non-legal signals.

Look, you folks are claiming there is a TiVo software problem causing your pixelation. There are thousands upon thousands of people with S3s who are running exactly the same version of the software as you who do not have your problems. There has to be something about your situation, and you claim it's not the TiVo hardware (ie, you do not have an mis-manufactured TiVo tuner). Therefore the difference has to be that your cable company is sending you some sort of unusual cable signal - something is different in the signal you are receiving from your cable company as compared to all these other folks from their cable companies. (You should be in complete agreement with everything above; I haven't said anything controversial yet).

The issue that's under debate is whether this unusual signal you are getting from your cable company is a legal, clean signal (in which case the TiVo is at fault) or whether it is an out-of-spec signal (cable company's responsibility). I don't know who's at fault, it could certainly be TiVo. But to conclude that it's TiVo's fault is just unsupported by the evidence. There have been many,many reports of pixelation that have been fixed by the cable company; most of which one assumes are the cable company's responsibility. To assume that this unusual signal from the cable company is guaranteed to be not their responsibility is a big jump.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> Exactly where did I suggest that only the cable boxes are working fine? I did not.
> 
> I agree you have one independent piece of evidence (your TV) that the cable signal can be handled. That does not imply that you are receiving a clean, legal signal; almost all hardware handles some non-legal signals.
> 
> ...


For the record... Im not claiming that 8.3 did anything.... as for me it made absolutely no difference just as 8.1 made no difference. My belief is that the pixelation issues lie on both sides of the fence with the larger share belonging to Tivo. I believe 1) Tivo has a marginal QAM tuner design and 2) I believe that some cableco's are delivering marginal signal (but not 'strength'.. something deeper). A Tivo customer having both 'defective genes' ends up with trouble. The evidence I have seen seems to support my opinion.

This "Now, all of a sudden, they have to get their signal clean enough to work with other people's equipment." is where I interpreted you to imply that only cableco equipment was good enough to work with their signal. If I read to much into your statement, i aplogize.


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> You're living in a dream world if you believe that cable companies send out a legal signal on all channels at all times to all locations. They don't. They get their digital signal clean enough so it works with their own boxes; that's realistically all we could expect of them, pre-cablecard. Now, all of a sudden, they have to get their signal clean enough to work with other people's equipment. They haven't had to do that before, and S3 owners are paying the price.
> 
> The large majority of pixelation problems reported in this forum have been fixed by the cable company changing the signal received; in most cases by just cleaning up the signal in the customer's home. In other cases, the cable companies have cleaned up their signal for entire areas at once; there are multiple reports here of areas with severe pixelation that stopped for everybody in the area at the same time. (A number of customers in these areas had had their signal individually tested by the cable company and been told it was fine.)
> 
> To automatically assume the TiVo is at fault flies in the face of the evidence. The TiVo could indeed possibly be at fault, but most people have had their problems cleared up by the cable companies changing their signal, not by TiVo changing anything.


I was told by multiple TiVo CSR's that my reboot cycle was a problem with the cable cards so I had the cable guy comeback a bunch of times to fix hardware that they don't sell. Lo and behold TiVo releases software that immediately fixed the problem. I thank them for that but many of my shows are still unwatchable because I regularly get audio dropouts and sometimes dropouts that last several minutes. If TV's and Cableboxes are working with my cable system then that puts most of the fault with the TiVo. Now I understand that there are people who have no problems whatsoever thats why I said most. Perhaps the signal quality is not perfect but if the Cableco's and TV manufactures can work around it so should TiVo. It's going to be a hell of a lot easier for tivo to try and fix this problem than to find someone at the cable company that will even entertain the idea of trying to fix their infrastructure to better support a product they don't even want to support to begin with.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Id respectfully disagree with your conclusions and more importantly have concerns about some of what's been stated as fact. You continue to make blanket statements about what the facts are here as if you have inside information or work for TiVo. To our knowledge all you have to go by are the posts on this website and possibly your personal experience. Please correct me if Im wrong. Here are some recent examples:



CrispyCritter said:


> The large majority of pixelation problems reported in this forum have been fixed by the cable company changing the signal received; in most cases by just cleaning up the signal in the customer's home. In other cases, the cable companies have cleaned up their signal for entire areas at once; there are multiple reports here of areas with severe pixelation that stopped for everybody in the area at the same time.


 Other than what's posted here, how on earth could you know that? It may be unintended but the only point of this sort of statement would be to try to sway new readers opinions or put a stop to complaints by those folks that are still having problems.



CrispyCritter said:


> Look, you folks are claiming there is a TiVo software problem causing your pixelation. There are thousands upon thousands of people with S3s who are running exactly the same version of the software as you who do not have your problems.


 Again, unless you're a TiVo CSR its impossible to know how many complaints are being received. You have to be assuming that because _"thousands upon thousands of people" _ have not posted their problems here that it's some sort of undisputable evidence that there really isn't a problem. Making a broad assumption such as this and stating it as fact is misleading at best. None of us have any idea how many people are complaining about this and as argued before; a very small minority of TiVo owners actually visit or post on this forum.



CrispyCritter said:


> But to conclude that it's TiVo's fault is just unsupported by the evidence.


 I and a number of others here disagree with your assumption. Based on the postings in this and other threads weve concluded that an issue arose when FW v8.3x was implemented. Repeating that all of us are just wrong is certainly your right, but we can easily make the case that youre arguments are wrong as well based on the same evidence.



CrispyCritter said:


> There have been many, many reports of pixelation that have been fixed by the cable company; most of which one assumes are the cable company's responsibility.


 Once again, how would you know that other than by reading the posts on this and other threads in the forum? There are multiple claims that the cablecos could do nothing and that these people are still having problems. Others have said a signal amp is the solution and others have said that they tried that and are still having problems. We can just as easily draw the conclusion that there is a problem with TiVo.

You've made some valid arguments and please accept this feedback in the spirit of friendly debate. The only verifiable fact here is that I and others here read and see things differently. I for one appreciate your input and we can agree to disagree as to how to interpret what's posted here, but please avoid making sweeping authoritative statements about what thousands of TiVo users situations are or what's happened in wide areas of the country unless you'd care to share some other sources you're using to verify your conclusions.

Again, thanks to everyone for sharing and please continue to post your experiences.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

riddick21 said:


> For those who say that we shouldn't blame or call TiVo for this and should try to single out other possible problem before contacting TiVo I have one thing to say, why? The average person is not one that will put up with these problems and I assure you that while there were several things I hated about the cable co's DVR it never suffered from audio/video dropouts. I think it is TiVo's responsibility to make sure their system works with the current infrastructure and the cable company shouldn't really have to do anything besides give you a strong signal and install the cards correctly (I think after 5 visits and 3 pairs of cable cards I'm willing to rule out that this is the cable companies fault). I think everyone who has this problem should call TiVo right away so that we can get this fixed soon.


 +1. :up:


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## chezpaul (Feb 28, 2002)

I'm having the same problem.. I just got my S3 and started recording my shows, I got the 8.3 update. My OTA signal has been working for the past three years in my HR250 HD and now I get pixelation and audio drop outs...

I'm contacting Tivo Support and complaining right now.

Whoever said we shouldn't contact them is an idiot. And the guy who keeps saying we're all dreaming is also an idiot with too much time on his hands to be posting in threads that don't concern him. ;-)


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chezpaul said:


> I'm having the same problem.. I just got my S3 and started recording my shows, I got the 8.3 update. My OTA signal has been working for the past three years in my HR250 HD and now I get pixelation and audio drop outs...
> 
> I'm contacting Tivo Support and complaining right now.
> 
> Whoever said we shouldn't contact them is an idiot. And the guy who keeps saying we're all dreaming is also an idiot with too much time on his hands to be posting in threads that don't concern him. ;-)


 Thanks for taking action. :up: Please keep us posted on what happens.

FYI - We experienced the same issues and it was _very _ frustrating  . However about 2 weeks after our 8.3 FW update (May 12th) the audio/video problems began to subside and have almost completely dissapeared now. So hang in there; things may work themselves out.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

richsadams said:


> FYI - We experienced the same issues and it was _very _ frustrating  . However about 2 weeks after our 8.3 FW update (May 12th) the audio/video problems began to subside and have almost completely dissapeared now. So hang in there; things may work themselves out.


I hope that happens for me. For several weeks after I received 8.3 I had BAD audio dropouts and video pixelization on the local ABC HD channel, which I only receive OTA. The problem was especially severe on shows that aired between 9 and 10 PM CDT, for example, Traveler. But last Wednesday I was able to watch a Traveler episode without serious problems. I hope that was a good omen.


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## rww (Apr 26, 2006)

I have FIOS DC. Sometime between May 17th and May 20th, pixelation and audio dropout began on channels 801-809 (HD locals). 

I have a terminator cap on the antenna input on the S3. 

To rule out the coax, I purchased a new 50 foot coax cable and ran it directly from the FIOS ONT to the S3. No change. 

To rule out signal strength problems, I tried a 6 db attenuator and tried a 0-8 db amplifier. No change. 

One other person has posted that they have had problems with FIOS DC HD locals. 

Does anyone successfully receive FIOS HD locals (channels 801-809) on an S3 in the Washington, DC area?


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## KustomMerc (Jun 1, 2007)

pixilation....audio drop outs...... 8.31 

2-cable cards, HDMI hook-up...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

KustomMerc said:


> pixilation....audio drop outs...... 8.31
> 
> 2-cable cards, HDMI hook-up...


 Thanks for posting but we'll need more information...how, when, where, what?

How long have you had your S3?
What kind of setup do you have (stand alone TV/TiVo, HT, etc.) and how are things connected (HDMI direct to TV, via HT)?
When did you get FW 8.3 upgrade?
Did the problems start at that moment or sometime later?
Were there problems previously?
What are you seeing and how often (details)?
Are the problems with OTA, cable, one or the other or both?
Are the problems with HD or SD or both?
Have you tried anything to resolve the problem(s)?
If cable, have you called your cable company to check signal strength? Results?
Have you called TiVo? Results?​With more info we can either make suggestions or continue to gather information that will help in the long run.


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## cjwskier (Jan 4, 2005)

I live with 2 other guys (but maintain the TiVo and entertainment center). One of my housemates came up to me today to complain that over the past 3 weeks he has noticed that the TiVo has gotten "terrible." 

He demonstrated that the TiVo does have pixelation and audio dropouts on recorded shows. At first I thought it might have been a cablecard problem (this is my 3rd S3 so i am all aware of the cablecard issues). However i pain stakenly sat and watched 30 minutes of the same channel he demonstrated with me on each cable card (using the cable card menu) and not one drop out or pixelation existed (came every 5 minutes or so in the recordings).

This led me to rule out the fact that it was a signal problem (Tivo installed 3 months ago but 3 months ago the cable company came and said we had a very high signal). In fact the measure signal feature in TiVo indicates around a 94 or 95 signal.

This leaves me at 2 theories: 1) The 8.3 problem in this thread. I went onto TiVo's site and requested 8.3 (with Swivel) about exactly when my housemate said the issues started. Given everyone's experience here i am starting to lean towards this one

2) recently followed the ESATA upgrade solution that was recently discovered so this might be the problem. My only reason to have less stock in this theory is that (1) i have not read about anyone else in various forums having this type of symptom due to the extended ESATA hard drive, and (2) the problem must have starting occurring about 2 weeks after I first installed the hard drive.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Until then I am believing this is a TiVo issue. I hope they roll out a new TiVo version shortly, this is getting annoying!


Chris


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

This is not a cablecard problem. On some of my premium channels I get choppy audio where it goes out and comes back in continuously until I change the channel. It goes away if I change the channel and come back. I highly doubt this is a cablecard issue if it can pick up the signal properly by simply changing the channel.


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## Rustystaple (May 31, 2007)

rww said:


> I have FIOS DC. Sometime between May 17th and May 20th, pixelation and audio dropout began on channels 801-809 (HD locals).
> 
> I have a terminator cap on the antenna input on the S3.
> 
> ...


I have had my S3 since 5/25 and it has been working on CC since 6/1. The entire time since CC installation has been under 8.3. No serious problems. Only occasional small pixelation. No audio problems. No problems with any HD I have reccorded.


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## Trel (Mar 12, 2007)

I've had trouble with pixelation and such from day 1, but it hasn't been that bad.

I've talked to TiVo about it, but after 6 installer appointments just to get the cablecards working I don't even want it touched for fear of it not working at all.

Why are we complaining to TiVo because we are having pixelation?

1) We can't prove to Comcast that it is our signal. TiVo has given us no tools we can show to Comcast to prove it is the cablecards/signal and not our hardware.

2) Pixelation on analog channels is suspicious. I'm no expert, but my experience tells me that snow and not blocking is what happens when analog signal is degrading.

We need information we can use to talk to our cable company. We need software tools to tell us what the noise level is in the signal so we have something to use to independently confirm that our signal is "good".

I don't trust the cable provider or the people that come out here. How am I going to know that they aren't just feeding me a line by telling me my signal is good? How good is good? Good enough for our boxes, but maybe not good enough for your TiVo?

Come on TiVo. We need some help here even if it isn't your software.


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## bifsiff94 (Dec 11, 2006)

Clearly, the pixellation and audio dropouts you are experiencing are just in your head.

Count me as another with post 8.3 pixellation and audio dropouts. I've had my Tivo 7 months and have not experienced recurring pixellation before. There's more to this than simply a signal issue.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

bifsiff94 said:


> Clearly, the pixellation and audio dropouts you are experiencing are just in your head.
> 
> Count me as another with post 8.3 pixellation and audio dropouts. I've had my Tivo 7 months and have not experienced recurring pixellation before. There's more to this than simply a signal issue.


How do you know until you try to solve a signal issue?

Blaming without trying to solve is the reason our country is the way it is today.


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## bifsiff94 (Dec 11, 2006)

How do I know that I'm not experiencing a power failure? How do I know that my cablecards are suddenly not working properly? What about some component on the S3 that has failed? Maybe it's my TV? My HDMI cable?

There are a lot of variables that could cause the issue. There's nothing wrong with using intuition and observation to start a discussion. There are a lot of savvy Tivo owners that are posting based on their experience and that shouldn't be so quickly discounted.

I probably wouldn't even have posted in this thread if it weren't for the condescending tone of some of these posts. There are a lot of people who started experiencing this problem right after 8.3. That is a fact. Is is possible it's conincidence? Sure. That's why a thread like this is useful for the entire community. The original poster wanted to know if he was the only person experiencing this issue, and clearly, he is not.

On the flip side, there are some who have claimed that 8.3 fixed their pixellation problems. Are they wrong to reach that conclusion, or should they be calling their cable company to thank them for suddenly improving their signal strength? If Tivo's 8.3 update included software corrections to fix the issues for these owners, it is perfectly reasonable to imagine that the 8.3 software change may have caused problems for others.


EDIT: I've noticed a few more pixellations with audio dropout and they appear only on analog channels. For me, I believe that rules out a signal problem, and I've never had this issue before 8.3. Can anyone else confirm if you are just experiencing this on analog channels? My analog default quality setting is high, but not best. Still, I would not expect that to cause pixellation and audio dropouts.

In a way, this pixellation is similar to the type I've experienced on the Pioneer DVR-810H. The pioneer has a hardware problem that causes the pixellation, especially on lower quality settings.


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## resanders (Oct 17, 2006)

I live in Morris County, NJ and I have FiOS TV. The problem channels for me are 80 - CNN, 120 - Lifetime, 150 - Travel, 160 - SCIFI, 161 - A&E and HD - 845. There are probably more but that should suffice for now. I had two Verizon techs out to the house on Sat. and all they did was install an attenuator to reduce the signal coming into the splitter which didn't do anything. If these are only analog channels for now then maybe that is the reason and my hope is that the signal of those channels would be upgraded over time. Also, I've seen a Motorola signal booseter splitter being sold on Amazon.com but I'm not sure if it works in all cases.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

resanders said:


> I live in Morris County, NJ and I have FiOS TV. The problem channels for me are 80 - CNN, 120 - Lifetime, 150 - Travel, 160 - SCIFI, 161 - A&E and HD - 845. There are probably more but that should suffice for now. I had two Verizon techs out to the house on Sat. and all they did was install an attenuator to reduce the signal coming into the splitter which didn't do anything. If these are only analog channels for now then maybe that is the reason and my hope is that the signal of those channels would be upgraded over time. Also, I've seen a Motorola signal booseter splitter being sold on Amazon.com but I'm not sure if it works in all cases.


If you have FIOS, you don't have any analog channels with CC. Even without CC, the only analog channels are basically locals.

All your channels are digital.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

bifsiff94 said:


> In a way, this pixellation is similar to the type I've experienced on the Pioneer DVR-810H. The pioneer has a hardware problem that causes the pixellation, especially on lower quality settings.


Come on, think clearly. If this were a hardware problem, we'd see much closer to 100% of people reporting problems.

We don't. It's a fraction of the users.

We see a frequency that closely matches those of signal problems. Random people, no specific pattern. (With a couple of exceptions, of course.)

Human beings seek out patterns, even when there aren't any. Correlating the bulk of these issues to 8.3 is just seeing a pattern that isn't there.

Much more likely - more people have a S3 now, and so as 8.3 rolled out, more people were exploring their S3. The few who had issues eventually found this forum, and got mob-thinked into associating any problem they had with 8.3.

For the vast amjority of folks - it's a signal problem. If you can spend money on a S3 and HDTV, go get a reasonably inexpensive, quality, signal amp/cleaner. At worst, you can rule that out as an issue and actually focus on other things, instead of all the mental theorizing going on now. Actually try and solve your problems folks.

Coax cable with splitters, etc., is an inherently faulty way to transmit television signals like this (that's why Verizon abandoned it until you get to your house). And for many people out there, your coax wiring is likely pretty bad. But it's also easily fixed with a little work.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

I don't know if this related to what everyone else is observing, but recently, I have been getting some slight pixelation/blocking that is causing my S3 to simply freeze. It will remain locked like that for several minutes. Fast forwarding (or skip or rewind, for that matter) will cause the TiVo to make the audio signal that it registered the command, but the image will remain locked. After about a minute or two, the image will re-draw, and it will remain locked. It will do that for a while until it gets past a certain point of the program, and then it will resume "normal" playback. Pushing the TiVo button will similarly trigger the audio signal, but the TiVo will hang for a long period before it gets to the home screen. Telling it to resume drops the program back into the same spot, where it freezes again. This happens on both live and recorded shows, and on multiple channels. 

I can certainly accept that Brighthouse may be sending a low quality signal, but the TiVo should not be freezing up this way. There are no visable hick-ups on my other TV connected to a PACE digital set top box.

Anyone else experiencing this?


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## bifsiff94 (Dec 11, 2006)

but I've only experienced my issue on analog channels. Is that a signal issue or not? Is it possible to have signal-related pixellation and audio dropouts on an analog channel?

I can't speak for anyone else and I'm not a cable tech, so I think that's a fair question.


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## Digibean (Mar 13, 2007)

I had a COMCAST box for awhile and had no problems with any channels, analog or HD. Now with an S3 I'm getting pixelation on both analog and HD channels, but mainly on recorded shows. In fact I'm watching Standoff in HD that I recorded and it pixelated with audio drop about 8 to 10 times during the 1 hour show. But, I watched a live HD channel before that on a PBS HD for a full hour without one episode of pixelation/audio drop. However, I do remember watching a live HD channel over the weekend and it pixelated w/ audio drop off a few times during day.

As for this not being an S3 issue, I won't say it is or it isn't. It's a possibility that the signal coming in from COMCAST is borderline when watching live shows but causes a problem within the S3 on one or the other tuner. If that's the case then there are quite a few people experiencing this problem without a way to prove what is causing it.

I live in a fairly new apartment complex and only have one split on the coax (one to S3 and one to cable modem). When I check the signal strength on my favorite channels, they're all 90% or above.

I will gladly buy a an attenuator/booster if it's proven that that is the issue. However, there are people who have posted on this thread that said that they have done that without success. I probably will buy and then try one to see if that will fix it since they are fairly cheap. But in the meantime I hope people continue to post in this thread about their issues, attempts to fix, and any other insights to what could be causing this.


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## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

Well, I installed the amp and am now waiting to see if my glitching is helped at all by it. It will take a while before I can tell if it helps on newly recorded programs.


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## HaloBox (Oct 1, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> Come on, think clearly. If this were a hardware problem, we'd see much closer to 100% of people reporting problems.
> 
> We don't. It's a fraction of the users.
> 
> ...


How the hell do you know that? Now who's presuming too much?

I've had my S3 for a week and have seen slight pixelation and audio droppage in the first two HD recordings I made earlier today. Now granted I'm recording directly from the unencrypted FIOS TV QAM channels, but the issue is certainly visible.

Since I've only had my box a week, I have no history or experience with previous TiVOS versions.

My CableCard install is next week. If there is a serious issue after I start recording, I'll have to decide if I even keep my TiVo. If it doesn't work well, it will likely be returned.

Since I know the TiVo folks read and post here, it would be good to know if any of this is a "known issue."


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## astrodonkey (Dec 19, 2004)

Interesting thread. I've just recently started having these audio/pixelation problems. I've had my S3 about two months. Not sure what software version it came with but I know I've been through two upgrades.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my cable signal. The reason I say this is my daughter watches "Dora the Explorer" over and over. Well, last night I noticed this problem on one of her recorded shows. It never happened before, and she's watched the thing 25 times. Now it's there in the exact same spot every time we watch it.

Looks to me like hard drive corruption or something along those lines. Since I'm under warranty I think I may send it back.


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## westport (Jun 26, 2007)

Help,.. I just upgraded to Tivo S3 with 8.3 from the crappy Cable 8300HD DVR. I now have pixel issues and audio dropouts galore. I never had these issues with my cable DVR. I also have a Series 2 box upstairs that never has these issues. The strange thing is that the problem seems to occur at the beginning of the show and seems to get better after about 10 minutes in. Probably a coincidence. Is there any way to tell which cable card/tuner made the recording? It would be interesting if it only one tuner had the issue.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

I, too, have had significant audio dropout and video pixelization problems with my S3 running 8.3. Until yesterday, the problem had been limited to one OTA digital channel, which a lot of viewers in the OKC area have had a hard time with  KOCO HD, Channel 5-1, the local ABC affiliate. But yesterday, I watched a two hour special in HD on the National Geographics HD cable channel via Cox OKC and had a lot of both dropouts and pixelization. 

That was the first and only time I had ever experienced the problem on any cable channel with enough frequency to become annoying. It never quite got so bad that I had to quit watching but it was often pretty bad. Whenever I have checked the signal strength of NGC HD or Channel 5-1 they are both at or near 100 on the S3s signal strength meter.

My old SA 8300HD, which my S3 replaced, could not record OTA programming, of course, but its cable recordings were always consistently good.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

gwsat said:


> I, too, have had significant audio dropout and video pixelization problems with my S3 running 8.3. Until yesterday, the problem had been limited to one OTA digital channel, which a lot of viewers in the OKC area have had a hard time with  KOCO HD, Channel 5-1, the local ABC affiliate. But yesterday, I watched a two hour special in HD on the National Geographics HD cable channel via Cox OKC and had a lot of both dropouts and pixelization.
> 
> That was the first and only time I had ever experienced the problem on any cable channel with enough frequency to become annoying. It never quite got so bad that I had to quit watching but it was often pretty bad. Whenever I have checked the signal strength of NGC HD or Channel 5-1 they are both at or near 100 on the S3s signal strength meter.
> 
> My old SA 8300HD, which my S3 replaced, could not record OTA programming, of course, but its cable recordings were always consistently good.


Tivo's signal strength meter is not actually a measure of signal strength at all, but of your error rate. You should have a technician come and measure your signal where it enters your Tivo. Likely it is weak enough to cause problems with frequencies (channels) that exist on the edge of what your signal contains.

This thread just needs to die. Few people are actually doing any basic investigation themselves and just posting here and blaming it on the Tivo. If people really want help they should gather more information and make a new thread for their problem without preconceieved notions about what is causing it. Also, the term "pixelation" drives me crazy. It is so vague that people call dozens of different symptoms "pixelation". Anything that causes someone to lose audio/video for a segment of time is by default a signal issue. Whether that is caused by the Tivo, the cableco, or something in between is up in the air, but it is a signal issue not some mystical "pixelation".


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

TostitoBandito said:


> Tivo's signal strength meter is not actually a measure of signal strength at all, but of your error rate. You should have a technician come and measure your signal where it enters your Tivo. Likely it is weak enough to cause problems with frequencies (channels) that exist on the edge of what your signal contains.
> 
> This thread just needs to die. Few people are actually doing any basic investigation themselves and just posting here and blaming it on the Tivo. If people really want help they should gather more information and make a new thread for their problem without preconceieved notions about what is causing it. Also, the term "pixelation" drives me crazy. It is so vague that people call dozens of different symptoms "pixelation". Anything that causes someone to lose audio/video for a segment of time is by default a signal issue. Whether that is caused by the Tivo, the cableco, or something in between is up in the air, but it is a signal issue not some mystical "pixelation".


The S3's Channel Settings menu has two choices for "Signal Strength," one for antenna and the other for cable. Did those silly fellows at TiVo just not know what they were talking about when the said that the meter measured Signal Strength?

This is a serious problem that deserves the sort of serious discussion it has received in this thread. Those of us who have had frequent, often severe, audio dropouts and video pixelization with our S3s but didnt have them with the cable company DVRs their S3s replaced would like to know why. In short, the thread certainly does not deserve to die, which I would have thought 133 posts and counting would have made clear. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . well, you get it.

I love my S3, as I loved my S1 before it. Nevertheless, the S3 is not perfect, as the problem discussed in this thread has demonstrated. I, for one, am not attacking TiVo but I would like to find a solution to the problem being addressed here. In fact, there has been little, if any, TiVo bashing in this thread, and certainly none from me.

Relax, smell the roses, leave us to our own discussion here or, better yet, help us find a solution instead of getting all S3 Coolaidy. 

EDIT: Typo corrected


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

gwsat said:


> This is a serious problem that deserves the sort of serious discussion it has received in this thread. Those of us who have had frequent, often severe, audio dropouts and video pixelization with our S3s but didnt have them with the cable company DVRs their S3s replaced would like to know why. In short, the thread certainly does not deserve to die, which I would have thought 133 posts and counting would have made clear. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a skunk . . . well, you get it.


 Agreed...whatever the issue is it's still manifesting itself for some people and deserves continued discussion. The cause (or causes), how widespread it is or was is completely unknown to anyone but TiVo employees.

My first advice would be to contact the cable provider and have them come out and test the cable signal and the cable cards. Those are the two things that cause a majority of audio and video issues particularly with HD.

That said, it doesnt mean there might not be a problem with TiVo. We had immediate audio/video troubles on the day of the 8.3 FW upgrade with zero problems prior. We had Comcast check our signal and cards and everything was good. The problems began to lessen after about two weeks and now about six weeks later we rarely see them...no more than would be expected for "normal" digital signal glitches. How or why things improved is anyone's guess, but the initial issue (in our case) could clearly be traced to the FW upgrade. It appears that things have cleared up for a number of others around the country as well as most of the new posts are from people just running into problems and finding this thread.

To me this whole thing screams "weak signal". My gut feeling still tells me that v8.3 caused TiVo's digital signal processing to be more sensitive somehow. If the signal was borderline to begin with and TiVo's processing became more sensitive it seems likely a perfect storm. I doubt if cableco signals have improved en mass so if I were to hazard a guess I'd say that TiVo has addressed the problem with some minor changes to the FW...but again that's just speculation.

Hopefully things have improved for most people and the remnants of this are from those that are either still experiencing what a majority of us ran into at the FW upgrade, or actual poor signals.

Time resolved these issues for us; hopefully it has or will for others but this is still a valid discussion and should be helpful if for nothing else to let others know that they aren't alone...and more importantly that it isnt hopeless. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. :up:


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## bifsiff94 (Dec 11, 2006)

richsadams said:


> That said, it doesnt mean there might not be a problem with TiVo. We had immediate audio/video troubles on the day of the 8.3 FW upgrade with zero problems prior. We had Comcast check our signal and cards and everything was good. The problems began to lessen after about two weeks and now about six weeks later we rarely see them...no more than would be expected for "normal" digital signal glitches.  How or why things improved is anyone's guess, but the initial issue (in our case) could clearly be traced to the FW upgrade. It appears that things have cleared up for a number of others around the country as well as most of the new posts are from people just running into problems and finding this thread.
> 
> To me this whole thing screams "weak signal". My gut feeling still tells me that v8.3 caused TiVo's digital signal processing to be more sensitive somehow. If the signal was borderline to begin with and TiVo's processing became more sensitive it seems likely a perfect storm. I doubt if cableco signals have improved en mass so if I were to hazard a guess I'd say that TiVo has addressed the problem with some minor changes to the FW...but again that's just speculation.


I will say that my issue has been very minor and not bothersome enough to call the cable company or Tivo. But I do think that it's valuable to discuss in this thread. The only pixellation I've had is on SD analog and digital channels, not on HD. I find that pretty odd, especially the analog channels where I would expect to never have a "signal" issue that causes pixellation and audio dropouts. In my case, the pixellation is that a portion of the screen goes "blocky" for a second or two.

I'm the proud owner of a pioneer tivo/dvd burner unit, and that thing has terrible pixellation on lower quality settings, and it's not a signal issue. So a blanket statement that all pixellation is caused by poor signal is flat out wrong.

That said, I do think that your assessment of borderline signal strength may be the culprit is probably correct. But if it was working before with borderline signals and now it doesn't, I would think this would be valuable feedback for Tivo.

I hadn't heard before that the problem seemed to be diminishing for others. Without an update, doesn't that seem like a curious trend if true?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bifsiff94 said:


> I hadn't heard before that the problem seemed to be diminishing for others. Without an update, doesn't that seem like a curious trend if true?


 Curious? Yes! This whole thing is fairly curious isn't it? 

That things might be getting better is just conjecture. Less people are complaining (particularly the OP's) on this and other threads so that may or may not equate to a resolution. If so, how or why that's happened is anyone's guess. If things are still problematic I suspect they've been taken to a "higher authority" (read: cableco's or TiVo).

Good feedback either way is usually helpful though. :up:


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## GregComeLately (Nov 27, 2006)

gwsat said:


> For several weeks after I received 8.3 I had BAD audio dropouts and video pixelization on the local ABC HD channel, which I only receive OTA. The problem was especially severe on shows that aired between 9 and 10 PM CDT, for example, Traveler. But last Wednesday I was able to watch a Traveler episode without serious problems. I hope that was a good omen.


I rarely visit this forum, but skimming through this whole thread, I just spotted your weeks old post.

I've had similar issues with ABC OTA HD, BUT mine seem limited to audio dropouts only. No accompanying video drops outs or pixelation occurences, per se. It seemed to _roughly_ coincide with the 8.3 update, but I really can't say with any reasonable degree of confidence, other than it started about 3 months ago. I started noticing an uptick of audio dropouts on a few of the ABC programs I had been recording; Lost, Desperate Housewifes, for example, both falling within the 8-10pm CDT range. I don't record much else on ABC, at least consistently.

As these programs are now in reruns, I've recorded very little ABC programming since then, so its difficult for me to assess whether or not the problem is still occurring.

With the exception of a 1 to 2 minute-long audio dropout on Desperate Housewives during it's series finale, or the episode the week before (I forget which), the dropouts have typically run a few seconds in length, and only occurring 2-4 times throughout the program.

All the other stations have been exempt from these audio-only dropout occurences. It's just been an ABC OTA thing.

Just thought I'd mention my somewhat similar situation, for whatever it's worth (perhaps just another non-categorizable issue which helps to clarify nothing ).



TostitoBandito said:


> Tivo's signal strength meter is not actually a measure of signal strength at all, but of your error rate.


so just what do their "error rate" measurements tell us? anything useful?

Like you, I am in an apartment. I've had fairly solid reception for all my HD/digital OTA stations apart from the (what used to be a much more) finicky CBS station. The signal strength #'s have never provided me with ANY clues. All stations have been in the 89 to 95 range, with most of them typically hovering around 90-93. Since back in the time when CBS HD/digital was being super-finicky, up to the present, where it's been behaving just like all the rest (NBC, PBS, CW, FOX), the signal numbers have never varied significantly. Is this typical? Should I have been seeing more wildly fluctuating "error measurements"?



TostitoBandito said:


> Personally, my apartment has a splitter or two back behind the wall someplace which weakens the signal reaching me. This causes two of my HD channels which both occupy frequencies on the edge of the range (MHD and UHD) to have intermittent A/V dropouts, sometimes lasting fractions of a second and sometimes for a couple hours. I've been meaning to get a signal amplifier to play around with but haven't yet.


Have you tried a signal amp yet?? Whenever I do have reception problems, the bulk have been very brief audio and/or video pixelation effects, though never longer than 5-10 seconds during any single occurance. With my consistently strong Tivo signal #'s and my apartment-dwelling circumstance (not having much control over possible antenna issues and adjacent building interferences), I had assumed that nothing I could do would help. If a signal amp works for you, then I should probably attempt it as well.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

I reported yesterday morning that my S3 had started to experience audio dropouts and video pixelization on some cable channels as well as on the OTA channel, where it has happened frequently. Late yesterday afternoon things got worse, a lot worse. My TiVo made a sharp left turn and headed south. 

My S3 became glacially slow, so slow that it sometimes took several minutes before it would carry out an operation I had called for with the remote. Then, it started demonstrating severe pixelization and video freeze on some channels and others would simply give me a black screen. It would also reboot as frequently as once every 5 minutes.

I called TiVo and after some discussion they called Cox OKC for me, and in a three-way conversation, we arranged for Cox to come today and check the cards. A Cox tech did, and could find nothing wrong with the cards. Then, the Cox tech and I called TiVo back, told them that there was nothing apparently wrong with the cards and TiVo agreed to ship a replacement S3.

The TiVo tech did not tell me why they decided to ship me a replacement, but I think it was my explanation of the audio and video problems I had experienced frequently on an OTA channel.

I hope the replacement S3 will operate without problems but seeing will be believing. Ill report further when I know more.


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## Mystic1 (Sep 26, 2006)

So I just stumbled across this thread - and I am 99% certain that 8.3 is the cause of my audio and video drop-outs and heavy pixelation - for the following reasons:

1) My TWO s3's were both working very well prior to the 8.3 update.
2) I have already had my cable signals checked, and verified the integrity of the signals.
3) The exact same program recorded on two Tivo S3's and a Motorola HD STB show constant audio/video drop-outs on the Tivo's but not the Motorola or the live feeds.
4) The drop-outs on the two Tivo's, while both constant, are not in the same places as they should be if it was signal related.
5) I have had the cards checked and re-checked by COX and replaced twice with exactly the same results. 
6) One of my s3's has had the internal HD upgraded, the other has not - it's still original.

Since I have TWO s3's and they both exhibited the exact same symptoms at exactly the same time - the 8.3 update - and both were fine on 8.1 - I can conclude that it's extremely unlikely to be a coincidence that both had hardware problems at the same time. And since the signal is verified fine it must be related to the 8.3 upgrade. There is no doubt in my mind. 

If TIvo doesn't acknowledge that, then they're not only going to continue to irritate customers, but they're also going to waste a lot of money replacing units that aren't really bad...


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## smileLP (Mar 26, 2003)

i have been only reading this thread, not contributing, although i suffer from the same pixilation problems

i must say, to the poster who says "stop complaining and do something to fix it," and "this is what's wrong w/america," that is about the most unsympathetic and misguided attitude i have ever come across. you're essentially calling us lazy

well, this "lazy" S3 owner had spent hundreds of dollars on amps, attenuators, splitters, gold this and that and anything else i can think of, and i still get the pixillations and "stutters." oh, i've also had the cable guys out to my house about 6 times, AND spent hours on the phone w/tivo, weak knees and my cable company

and guess what? never a pixillation problem til the 8.3 upgrade. nothing else changed in my setup here; just the "upgrade." then bingo, stutters every 5 or 10 mins. how can that be anything BUT related to the 8.3 upgrade

and you keep saying this only affects a small group of users. i'm willing to bet it affects most users, and they either don't care enough to seek help, have sent their tivos back, or haven't found their way to this forum. PLUS, there only IS a small % of tivo users w/the series 3. most people are happy w/their earlier generation tivos

incidentally, i had ZERO problems w/time warner's cable box. crystal clear picture, no pixillations (crummier features compared to tivo, of course)

and lastly, let me just say that i have in the past called tivo to complain about software issues like "slow program selecting using the letter selector," etc., AND other problems. every single time they said, "oh, this is the first such complaint i've heard about this." and then, subsequently, i'll read about other tivo owners having the same problem, and then subsequently, miraculously, on the next update, the various problems were fixed. it's like they're trained to never admit any fault whatsoever. a very poor way to deal w/your customers, especially for a company that mostly enjoys a good customer relations reputation

so, this is the "lazy" tivo complainer/imaginer (it's all in my head after all, rt?) signing off... after trying 78 things to fix the pixillation/stutters/and drop outs, which were non existent TIL THE SOFTWARE UPGRADE, what do you think i'm going to conclude is responsible?

sorry if this seems overly emotional, but i found that poster's condescending, know-it-all, "oh stop your complaining" attitude very annoying (infuriating really)


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

To prove if 8.3 is indeed the problem all that is needed is someone suffering from this problem to re-image their drive with 8.1 software and see if the problem goes away before the unit gets the 8.3 upgrade. I haven't checked but are there 8.1 images available online somewhere? If not perhaps someone has the original 250GB internal drive they took out for an upgrade with 8.1 software that they could use to try this out with?


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

moyekj

That is an ideal suggestion. I know that with my mp3 player, being able to rollback to an earlier firmware was able to pin point that the "upgraded" firmware was the problem. 

Too bad rolling back on the tivo is not as easy as pointing to a webpage and grabbing something.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Well, I can see that there's still some frustration out there.  We feel lucky that our TiVo seems to have sorted things out one way or another.

Re-imaging a hard drive back to 8.1 (or earlier) isn't a bad idea if there's a way to do it.

I still feel strongly that this is a signal issue. I've had cableco's tell me repeatedly that the signal is good when, after a third or so visit it turns out that it wasn't, so a majority of problems may still be solved by forcing the issue with the local cable company. But I'm also convinced that the 8.3 FW upgrade somehow exacerbated the issue.

I'm wondering if Kickstart 58 might not hurt in some of the more extreme situations where people have tried everything they could possibly do to resolve the problem. TiVo drives have two partitions; one for the current FW and one "open" for an upgrade. Kickstart 58 would download and install a new v8.3 and cause the new partition to "take over". I've no idea if that would make any difference but that or going back to an older FW version is the only thing left it would seem. I'd try it on mine, but it's been behaving very well for about a month now, so I don't want to disturb things. 

Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if the older FW version may still be residing on some hard drives and might be recovered somehow...but I'll leave that to the super-techs to figure out.

There are people that are firmly convinced that this isn't a "TiVo problem". Whatever the cause, it is TiVo that is suffering (and the owners of course), so when all is said and done...it's a "TiVo problem". Finding a solution is the desired outcome.

For those still enduring problems I'd advise keeping after the cablecos until youre certain everything is good. Then Id do the same with TiVo for as many times as it takes to get a resolution. Having dealt with TiVo CSR's a number of times I've never gotten the feeling that they are programmed to respond with anything less than the truth. But I also know that the turnover at call centers runs 200% or more annually in some places. So it wouldn't surprise me to hear someone say that they hadn't heard of an issue. I think if you keep after them that a "manager" might be persuaded to come on the line and try to help. I've no doubt that a replacement box is in order in some cases. Killing them with kindness seems to work very well.  

In any case, thanks to all for posting your feedback and try to hang in there. I can only give you one example, but in our case the problems finally cleared up and things are fine...so maybe it'll just take some time. :up:


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

I am getting heavy blocking, pixelation and audio dropouts on both my analog and digital channels. I just finished watching a show on an analog channel and there were audio/video dropouots every minute or two. How can an analog channel suffer MPEG block corruption?

This became much more pronounced after my box was upgraded to 8.3. My Series 2 never skipped a beat.

- Chris


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## JFord (Nov 3, 2006)

I finally decided to research the issue I have been having with pixelation and audio drops and I find this absolutely fascinating thread.

So many people with the same problem and so many other people with their heads in the sand screaming "WELL, IT CERTAINLY CAN'T BE TIVO'S FAULT!" Is TiVO a sports team you root for? Some of the passion here to defend a corporate entity borders on maniacal. This is an interesting complicated problem with so many potential factors at play. While it may NOT be TiVo's fault, there is no question that it certainly COULD BE.

This is not an easy problem to analyze: It is intermittent, seems to effect only certain channels (but the list is different for each person), and effects many different cable systems in many different geographical areas. Each cable system is different, each neighborhood may be cabled differently, and the cabling inside each of our dwellings is different. I don't envy anyone trying to get to the bottom of this.

While I have not read every work of each of the (currently) 145 posts on this topic the following things appear to be true:
* Some people are having this problem
* None of them had it before the 8.3 upgrade
* All of them starting experiencing the problem immediately after the 8.3 upgrade

I can't say for certain WHAT has cause the problem, but in my experience as a computer hardware and software designer, my experience in life, and my experience as pat of the latest TiVO beta program that released 8.3 I can tell you the following:

* Just because the problem does not happen to 100% of users doesn't mean that it isn't the fault of the hardware or software. It just means that the problems will be more difficult to identify. I have had software releases where 200 people had no problems, but one did. My first inclinations if to dismiss that person as an idiot, but more than once they have led me to a bug caused by the software not handing an OS configuration, strange time zone, odd IP setup, or who knows what else. Sometimes I changed the software, sometimes I changed their setup. In the end, all was well.

* As mentioned, I was a test user in the latest beta. Near the end of the beta program TiVO conducted their second audio/video quality questionnaire. During both sets of questionnaires I found no real reportable problems. Soon after that I received an e-mail that the beta was essentially complete, they were going to update software one last time and then go live. That was exactly when the problem started. After the last "beta" release of the software I began having problems. They continued when the production version of the software was released.

* I have a TiVO and a Motorola DCT6208 DVR from Comcast. The TiVo has problems, the Motorola does not (recording the same programs). Just to be sure I swapped locations and the results were the same.

It appears that no one from TiVO has joined in the discussion here. The solution seems simple, put us on the list to receive a software downgrade. If that fixes the problem then we probably have our culprit.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

JFord said:


> I finally decided to research the issue I have been having with pixelation and audio drops and I find this absolutely fascinating thread.
> 
> So many people with the same problem and so many other people with their heads in the sand screaming "WELL, IT CERTAINLY CAN'T BE TIVO'S FAULT!" Is TiVO a sports team you root for? Some of the passion here to defend a corporate entity borders on maniacal. This is an interesting complicated problem with so many potential factors at play. While it may NOT be TiVo's fault, there is no question that it certainly COULD BE.
> 
> ...


 All good observations and congrats for reading most of the posts! :up:

One clarification though...people have indeed suffered these same symptoms with previous FW releases. In fact a couple have posted that they had problems with v8.1x and that v8.3x in fact corrected things.  However there is clear evidence that something happened on what would appear to be a broader scale when the most recent FW (8.3x) was released. As you point out, the key is finding out why or if it's just a large coincidence as some have argued (unlikely IMHO).

A FW rollback would certainly silence a number on both sides of the "it's TiVo's fault Vs it's not TiVo's fault" fence.

I'd still wager it's a combination of things that affects a fairly small percentage of S3 owners, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem and that it shouldnt be addressed by TiVo in some manner. But as you point out, they have been moot about it.

Hopefully we'll continue to have some decent back-and-forth and perhaps one day come to a resolution. Or maybe the next upgrade/update will resolve it!  But if it were continuing to affect my viewing pleasure I sure wouldn't want to wait!


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

richsadams said:


> To me this whole thing screams "weak signal". My gut feeling still tells me that v8.3 caused TiVo's digital signal processing to be more sensitive somehow. If the signal was borderline to begin with and TiVo's processing became more sensitive it seems likely a perfect storm. I doubt if cableco signals have improved en mass so if I were to hazard a guess I'd say that TiVo has addressed the problem with some minor changes to the FW...but again that's just speculation.
> 
> Hopefully things have improved for most people and the remnants of this are from those that are either still experiencing what a majority of us ran into at the FW upgrade, or actual poor signals.
> 
> Time resolved these issues for us; hopefully it has or will for others but this is still a valid discussion and should be helpful if for nothing else to let others know that they aren't alone...and more importantly that it isnt hopeless. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. :up:


Count me in as one who is now once again enjoying the bliss that only a properly functioning TiVo can bring! Mine was pixilating all over the place and the audio dropouts were driving me crazy. The problems SEEMED to coincide with the 8.3 update. Last week I removed a "ground breaker" from the signal path and voila! My problems SEEM to be solved. Not sure if it was the ground breaker or perhaps TiVo sent some update down the wire. Either way, my S3 and Comcast are working again and have been fine for about two weeks now. I've done plenty of complaining about the problems so I felt it only fair to report that WHATEVER the cause was, the S3 seems to be working consistently well again. I hope it was something TiVo did and not just a random run of good signal from Comcast...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Count me in as one who is now once again enjoying the bliss that only a properly functioning TiVo can bring! Mine was pixilating all over the place and the audio dropouts were driving me crazy. The problems SEEMED to coincide with the 8.3 update. Last week I removed a "ground breaker" from the signal path and voila! My problems SEEM to be solved. Not sure if it was the ground breaker or perhaps TiVo sent some update down the wire. Either way, my S3 and Comcast are working again and have been fine for about two weeks now. I've done plenty of complaining about the problems so I felt it only fair to report that WHATEVER the cause was, the S3 seems to be working consistently well again. I hope it was something TiVo did and not just a random run of good signal from Comcast...


 How cool!  That's great news.

Can you share a little more about the "ground breaker"; exactly what it was and what you did to (seemingly) remedy the situation?

Thanks and congrats again!! :up: :up:


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

smileLP said:


> i have been only reading this thread, not contributing, although i suffer from the same pixilation problems
> 
> i must say, to the poster who says "stop complaining and do something to fix it," and "this is what's wrong w/america," that is about the most unsympathetic and misguided attitude i have ever come across. you're essentially calling us lazy
> 
> ...


Thanks for your excellent post, you "lazy bum." When I started this thread several weeks ago, there were several guys really piling on the insults and I see some of them are still doing it. Although it's a good idea to have these forums it would be an even better idea to have better customer support from TiVo. You are not alone with this problem, but I question whether anyone from TiVo is even looking at this issue. As for the guys who post in this thread and others like it that we're all just lazy, stupid or a combination of the two, I guess they have no lives or else they would find somethng else to occupy their time.


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## ldhurley (Jun 20, 2007)

I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth on this thread.

I have had a new S3 for two weeks. Prior to upgrading to software version 8.3 I had problems with the snap, crackle and pop (SCP) sounds on the digital and HD stations using Comcast Cable.

Of course I called TIVO and they sounded like they never heard of this problem and got the run around the first two times I called. I tried every cable set up you can think of, Component, HDMI, etc. Changed from "bad" AV cables to the "best" AV cables, no difference still the SCP audio.

I have discovered some very unusual ways to get rid of the SCP. While you are viewing some SD and HD channels if you go to the sound icon and change to the alternate audio Spanish the SNP goes away on some digital channels and not on other digital channels (but it is still in English).

Now the National Geographic channel is in a category by itself, the alternate audio has two choices and they are both the same. Choice one digital audio and choice two digital audio. If you select choice two you get no audio and if you select choice one you get SCP.

This is very frustrating and I wish TIVO would fix this problem.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

richsadams said:


> How cool!  That's great news.
> 
> Can you share a little more about the "ground breaker"; exactly what it was and what you did to (seemingly) remedy the situation?
> 
> Thanks and congrats again!! :up: :up:


Sure. When I first got my TiVo the Comcast signal had horizontal lines running up and down the screen. I inserted a "Ground Breaker" into the signal path and it fixed the problem. Somewhere along the line Comcast installed their own Ground Block outside and it seems to have made the Ground Breaker that I installed redundant.

Removing it was an afterthought. I really had the whole thing pulled apart so I could try installing an Amp to see if it would get rid of my pixilation problems and audio dropouts. The amp actually made things worse so I removed it. I happened to notice the Ground Breaker and decided to try removing it, just to see what might happen. When I pulled it, the picture stayed fine (no herringbone) so I decided to leave it off.

Ever since I put in the amp and removed it and pulled the Ground Breaker my S3 has been MUCH better. It still pixilates on NON HD channels once in a while (today severely on one show so bad I had to delete the show) but it's only happened one BAD time (today) and only appears a "glitch" most all of the other times. My HD channels and especially my HBOHD and DHD have been working all but perfectly for two weeks.

I'm not certain what fixed the problem (nor am I certain what caused them) but the fix coincided with me messing with the cables and removing the ground breaker. The problems I was having SEEMED to coincide with me getting the 8.3 update. Prior to that I'd had 3 months of almost perfect viewing. So here's me hoping it will stay fixed and this isn't just a "happy period" where Comcast is sending out a perfect signal. I guess time will tell, and I will keep the forum updated. I hope this bodes well for others.









Ground Loop Breaker


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## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

bareyb said:


> Sure. When I first got my TiVo the Comcast signal had horizontal lines running up and down the screen. I inserted a "Ground Breaker" into the signal path and it fixed the problem. Somewhere along the line Comcast installed their own Ground Block outside and it seems to have made the Ground Breaker that I installed redundant.
> 
> Removing it was an afterthought. I really had the whole thing pulled apart so I could try installing an Amp to see if it would get rid of my pixilation problems and audio dropouts. The amp actually made things worse so I removed it. I happened to notice the Ground Breaker and decided to try removing it, just to see what might happen. When I pulled it, the picture stayed fine (no herringbone) so I decided to leave it off.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem with a "cable ground breaker" that I installed, thinking it could only help prevent problems: WRONG. Dead wrong.

The ground breaker was attached to the "F" connector, the cable INPUT connection, on the back of the S3 - and the cable from the wall connected directly to the ground breaker.

I began losing entire blocks of channels for 12hrs at at time, while other channels would appear for about 12hrs. After a week of this nonsense, I took an old steel ferrotyping plate (16x20'') from storage to experiment with making a crude "Faraday Cage" to block radio frequency interference/electro-magnetic radiation. Purely by accident, I discovered that by aiming the steel plate at the back of the Tivo - like a sattellite dish bounces microwave energy - that I could, at will, wipeout the signal on nearly all cable channels/cablecards!!!

I immediately took the ground breaker off - all channels returned and the steel plate had no effect on any signal.

Needless to say, the ground breaker has been permanently put in the trash bin. Ground breakers may have been useful for cleaning up 60hz lines on analog sets, but simply do not apply to digital cable systems. They can leak like the one I had installed, allowing RFI/EMI to pass into the coax core, which adversely affects the digital signal. At best you'll get dropouts, and the worst case is total loss of channels/signals (depends on where you live and the amount of RFI/EMI in your environment).

I would advise anyone who is experiencing dropouts/missing channels to check for the presence of a ground breaker on the cable line.
If you've installed your own breaker, like I did, removing it may solve some, if not all, of these problems.


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## CIP54 (Dec 29, 2000)

This thread has been an interesting read. I've had my S3 since Christmas. On first install there was much digital noise and I needed to add a good amp and clean up some lines. Since then quality has been mostly excellent. Until recently. I don't know when I got the 8.3 upgrade but I first noticed dropouts during the last Sopranos episode and also the first Big Love, both obviously on HBO HD. I was just watching another movie recorded yesterday on the same channel and it is still happening. Not unwatchable, but annoying.

The symptoms described are quite similar to what I experienced years ago with a Sony DirecTivo unit that was oddly sensitive to signal quality. In that case, I ran PIP with the DirecTivo on one screen and a Sony satellite receiver in the other, and I was have an unwatchable show on one side and a perfect one on the other. Solution back then was a Spaun switch.

Would a software upgrade only affect the incoming feed? Older recordings are still pristine, only new ones have flaws. Why would Tivo change the incoming processing routines to add search features? That said, maybe my S3, already a bit sensitive to weak signals, just got even more sensitive due to the upgrade.

It really is too bad there's no easy way to go back to a prior rev as this would obviously provide a definitive answer.

FWIW, I have a Phillips and a Hughes Directivo and an S3 upgraded with a 500gb esata. The external drive was added after I noticed the noise issues.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Thanks to *bareyb, T-Shee, CIP54 * and of course many others for your feedback! :up: This is great stuff...not rocket science certainly, but I have to believe it will trigger an "Ah-ha!" from a number of folks in the same boat.

These most recent posts also back up the belief shared by many that the FW v8.3 upgrade did in fact have something to do with pixelization and audio issues where none existed before.

It seems to confirm that the FW v8.3 upgrade included a change to TiVo's sensitivity with regard to signal processing (for whatever reason). If your signal was poor/borderline to start with the upgrade may be all it took for problems to arise that weren't apparent previously. That explains why it would suddenly affect many (or a few...however you want to look at it)...but not all.

So it seems a couple of rules are in order.

*First rule: check your system:*

	If at all possible use a direct connection from the coax cable wall outlet to TiVo with a very good quality coax cable that is as short as practical.
	Keep the coax cable away from UPS and other power supplies, receivers, power cords, etc. to avoid the introduction of RFI/EMI.
	Remove other items including signal amps, attenuators, line extensions, ground breakers, surge protectors, etc. from the mix. (Surge protector power strips are fine, but some have coax cable in/out protection...don't use it.) TiVo requires a "clean" signal.

*Second rule: have your cableco check your signal:*

	Make sure your cable company provides the cleanest, strongest incoming signal possible. Discover any unusual installation issues such as splitters within an apartment complex, poor quality exchange boxes, etc. The closer you can come to a "direct connection" the better. 
	Don't let the cableco's tell you "The signal's fine" until you know it is. Keep the pressure on until the problem is resolved.
	The same would apply to OTA. Make sure your antenna signal is as strong and as clean as possible.​
Thanks again and let's hope that this helps some others with their issues and for anyone that's discovered anything else...please let us know!


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

I reported earlier that the audio dropout and video pixilation got even worse on my S3 and were becoming accompanied by very frequent spontaneous reboots. I also reported that a TiVo tech rep, after conferring with a Cox OKC tech, who was at my house, agreed to send me a replacement S3 after the Cox rep confirmed that my problems were not being caused by the CableCARDs.

TiVo overnighted the new S3, so it arrived on Thursday afternoon. Alas, the CableCARDs from the S3 that had failed didnt work in the new box and none of the three Cox tech support people I called could get them reconfigured over the phone. Not good. I then made an appointment for a tech to come to my house.

Friday afternoon a Cox tech, replaced the old CableCARDs with brand new ones and had the new S3 up and running in less than 45 minutes. I was impressed.

My problem OTA station, KOCO DT, which is the local ABC affiliate, still produces occasional audio dropouts and video blocking, but so far nothing has been so severe as to render a program unwatchable. The cable channels are all perfect on my new S3, as they were on the old S3 before it started to fail. I hope the worst is over. Despite the hassle caused by the failed S3, I give high marks to TiVo for promptly overnighting a brand new replacement S3 and to Cox for sending someone who could and did promptly install new CableCARDs in the new box.

Let me repeat here what I said in an earlier post. I think the reason the TiVo tech I talked to on Wednesday authorized the old S3 to be replaced was my representation that I was having audio and video problems with an OTA channel, which, of course, did not rely on the CableCARDs. Anyway, its pretty clear to me that the old S3s failure was a hardware failure of some sort and had nothing to do with version 8.3 of the software. Of course, how much, if anything, 8.3 has to do with the occasional pixilation I continue to have on KOCO DT is anybodys guess.


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## CIP54 (Dec 29, 2000)

gwsat said:


> Let me repeat here what I said in an earlier post. I think the reason the TiVo tech I talked to on Wednesday authorized the old S3 to be replaced was my representation that I was having audio and video problems with an OTA channel, which, of course, did not rely on the CableCARDs. Anyway, its pretty clear to me that the old S3s failure was a hardware failure of some sort and had nothing to do with version 8.3 of the software. Of course, how much, if anything, 8.3 has to do with the occasional pixilation I continue to have on KOCO DT is anybodys guess.


What version is running on the new S3?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

gwsat said:


> I reported earlier that the audio dropout and video pixilation got even worse on my S3 and were becoming accompanied by very frequent spontaneous reboots. I also reported that a TiVo tech rep, after conferring with a Cox OKC tech, who was at my house, agreed to send me a replacement S3 after the Cox rep confirmed that my problems were not being caused by the CableCARDs.
> 
> TiVo overnighted the new S3, so it arrived on Thursday afternoon. Alas, the CableCARDs from the S3 that had failed didnt work in the new box and none of the three Cox tech support people I called could get them reconfigured over the phone. Not good. I then made an appointment for a tech to come to my house.
> 
> ...


 Excellent to hear that life is better now. :up: No one should rule out that their TiVo may be having problems once they've followed the first two rules of getting a clean signal and ensuring that the cableco/OTA signal is the best it can be.

It's interesting that it took a conversation between a TiVo tech rep and your cableco tech to get them to send a new unit though, but if that's what it takes.



CIP54 said:


> What version is running on the new S3?


 That's a very good question. Most of the posts we've seen indicate that a new S3 is shipping with FW v8.1x now. Can you check on that for us and let us know if/when it's upgraded to FW v8.3?

Thanks for keeping us up to date! :up:


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

CIP54 said:


> What version is running on the new S3?


It came with 8.0 but downloaded 8.3 almost immediately.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

gwsat said:


> It came with 8.0 but downloaded 8.3 almost immediately.


 And all is working well...good news! :up:


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## erikrh (Mar 7, 2007)

Add me to the list of users with this problem. 

I purchased my S3 in March 07 when I did a complete home theater upgrade. I wanted HD and had read bad reviews on the new Directv non-Tivo HD receiver, so I changed to Comcast. (I should mention that I never had a single picture/audio issue with Directv, but I didn't want to lose Tivo.) Everything went great with the S3 until about a few weeks ago. Why would my signal strength decline suddenly at the same time as so many other people across multiple networks? 

The answer, I don't really care. All I know is that my wife is *****ing at me every night that I should have never changed our service. I want a reliable product/service that I don't have to worry about; spend hours reading about, then taking action, then waiting around for a tech guy, etc.; and most importantly don't have to listen to my wife compain about. 

In my opinion, the ball is in Tivo's court, not mine. I already did my part by paying $600, then spending hours waiting around for someone to get the product working. I am trying to stick it out and see if the Comcast/Tivo partnership bears any fruit. However, I'm only giving it to the end of the year, then I'm going back to satellite. 

Does this make me "lazy"? No. It makes me a person with a life, a business to run, and a family to take care of.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

erikrh said:


> Add me to the list of users with this problem.
> 
> In my opinion, the ball is in Tivo's court, not mine. I already did my part by paying $600, then spending hours waiting around for someone to get the product working. I am trying to stick it out and see if the Comcast/Tivo partnership bears any fruit. However, I'm only giving it to the end of the year, then I'm going back to satellite.
> 
> Does this make me "lazy"? No. It makes me a person with a life, a business to run, and a family to take care of.


I feel your pain erich. All I can say is that when these babies work, they work great. When they don't it's depressing as hell. I had all the same problems as you and in the end, damn if it doesn't SEEM like all my problems were due to a lousy simple little Ground Breaker. Once removed my TiVo has been all but perfect for going on 3 weeks now. It's like being in heaven compared to the hell I was going through. I was probably just as disappointed as you are, and ready to make the move back to DirecTV or ANYONE but Comcast.

I'd say your best plan of attack is to make sure the Cable guys go over your whole system. I have seen many reports here that problems miraculously disappear with even a minor repair to the cables going to the S3's. One bad connector or un-needed Ground Breaker could literally transform things for you. Make sure they send out a "real" technician and not a subcontractor.

I've been seeing an increasing number of reports around here that people with our problems are finding solutions. It does appear that the S3 CAN work almost flawlessly, but it requires a somewhat pristine signal. Signal quality is more than just signal level so try to get a technician who will take the time to really go over all the wires in your house. There should be the minimum amount of "splits" needed to get to your TV's and that's it. Replace a four-way splitter with a two-way etc. Any extra stuff like amps and ground breakers should be removed. Any patch cables that are the "push-on" variety or are "home-made" should be replaced immediately with a proper jumper cable from the Cable company that uses compression fittings. Anything at all that is suspect should be replaced.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't give up yet. I had the "problem" as bad as anyone could have and now it's just plain gone. My S3 is on par with my old non HD DirecTivo for reliability now. It just works consistently and I'm am rarely reminded any more that I have a "new" DVR. I hope it stays this way and I have no idea if it will, but I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there. The slightest change can transform the S3. I hope you get the fix because these machines are really nice when they are working. Good luck and we will all keep our collective fingers crossed for you.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bareyb said:


> I feel your pain erich. All I can say is that when these babies work, they work great. When they don't it's depressing as hell. I had all the same problems as you and in the end, damn if it doesn't SEEM like all my problems were due to a lousy simple little Ground Breaker. Once removed my TiVo has been all but perfect for going on 3 weeks now. It's like being in heaven compared to the hell I was going through. I was probably just as disappointed as you are, and ready to make the move back to DirecTV or ANYONE but Comcast.
> 
> I'd say your best plan of attack is to make sure the Cable guys go over your whole system. I have seen many reports here that problems miraculously disappear with even a minor repair to the cables going to the S3's. One bad connector or un-needed Ground Breaker could literally transform things for you. Make sure they send out a "real" technician and not a subcontractor.
> 
> ...


 +1 :up: :up:


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## Mike Malter (Dec 25, 2000)

I am experiencing an increase of lots of audio and video problems. It is pretty wierd, all of a sudden the audio drops and the screen goes crazy with bands of pixels showing random colors and images. And then all of a sudden it stops. It is really wierd and recent.


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## matt8268 (Nov 28, 2006)

> I've had the problem of audio dropouts followed (after 2 seconds) by a burst of video noise ever since I've had my unit. I haven't noticed any changes since 8.3. It sounds like some people had no issues before 8.3 and then got them after...that sucks. As for me, it's the same intermittent (let's say once per half hour on average) glitch, with the occasional program (usually Veronica Mars on HD local channel 5, the WB) glitching constantly to the point of severe annoyance or unwatchability.
> 
> I'm really tempted to try a signal amp after reading whatshisname's post. If I do, I'll post back whether it worked or not. If anyone else with glitching issues tries a quality amp, please post results. We shouldn't all go buy amps if they don't fix the issue.
> 
> Alright, everyone, just pulled the plug on a VSMA-601C line amp. $60 shipped. In a couple weeks I'll post back on whether it fixed my glitching issue.


My problem APPEARS to be fixed. Since installing the VSMA-601C line amp, I have not had a single glitch on any newly recorded program, and it's been about a month now. It will be months before I can confidently say the problem is totally gone, I'm not recording as much stuff now that we're in summer rerun season, but so far the evidence is very encouraging. By the way, I never measured any signals or called any cable tech support...I just installed the amp. (Added a 1 foot coax from the wall to the amp, and then used existing coax from the amp to the Tivo...also a third coax goes into the amp and plugs into an AC outlet).


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

matt8268 said:


> My problem APPEARS to be fixed. Since installing the VSMA-601C line amp, I have not had a single glitch on any newly recorded program, and it's been about a month now. It will be months before I can confidently say the problem is totally gone, I'm not recording as much stuff now that we're in summer rerun season, but so far the evidence is very encouraging. By the way, I never measured any signals or called any cable tech support...I just installed the amp. (Added a 1 foot coax from the wall to the amp, and then used existing coax from the amp to the Tivo...also a third coax goes into the amp and plugs into an AC outlet).


Awesome! :up:


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## El-Cid (Jul 5, 2007)

Hello all, just read through the thread.

Got an HD Tivo Series 3 with 8.3 at the moment.

I have had pixelization and audio cutout starting over a month ago, sporadic and have gotten worse, and usually just on some channels. Sometimes not so sporadic - for a while I could safely watch the opening sketch on Conan OBrien, but before the first guest spot was over, we would have pixelization. Nowadays I can hardly get a solid straight minute.

It seems that the problem might coincide with the 8.3 rollout, I purchased mine back in December and had some pixelization then, but that was fixed when the cable company came out. I have also seen some mention of hard drive problems.

Ill also mention that whenever there are problems on Tivo, I can switch over to the cable box and there are none whatsoever.

Im glad to see Matt report back that his problems were solved. Im sad to read some folks' dismissive attitude and chalking it up to ID10T errors. Lets imagine how much better things would be for both sides if we could work on our people skills.

So, perhaps I have a weak signal which only the Tivo is sensitive to, perhaps its a problem with the cable cards (I imagine splitting further within the unit so that both can process the signal might exacerbate the problem), maybe its a hard drive thang, might could be that the NSA - in cohorts with NBC Universal Media and the Priory of Scion (Comcast) - are jamming the signal to my favorite programs because I dont watch enough commercials.

Tomorrow Ill start by fiddling with the connection, connecting Tivo straight to the wall, then call on Comcast, next call Tivo, followed by obtaining an amplifier.

Id promise to update with whats going on, but knowing myself, if the problem goes away, so will I.

I love Tivo, but their seeming lack of response (noted by folks here, and by the fact that pixelization is hardly mentioned on the Tivo support site, and then not about Series 3 at all) just doesnt give me a great taste. I always point out to friends that their dvr is not tivo, that there is no substitute nor alternative for the real thing, but times they are changing. Now there are new alternatives, and because they are my friends, I have expressed that I am experiencing issues with the Tivo. Honesty and responsiveness would help me feel better about defending them more, but for now, I am not positive of when or if this pixelization problem is going to be fixed.


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## TromboneKenny (Mar 28, 2003)

Another thing that I don't think has been mentioned on this thread is temperature. For years, before my S3, I'd have seasonal cable signal problems. These only occur on the HD channels, but there would be a few that just pixelate/audio drop at different times of year with no change to my inside wiring or setup. I'd call my cable company, they'd come out and confirm the signal drop was too low at the cable tap outside my house, and a few days later it would be fixed.

It happened to me this spring/summer with ESPNHD and UHD. When the tech came out, I asked and he said temperature fluctuations affect the cable signal. Since we got 8.3 around the same time it started getting warm here in Illinois, could it really be a signal issue?

TBK, who wishes those coax signal meters were cheaper


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

El-Cid said:


> Hello all, just read through the thread.
> 
> Got an HD Tivo Series 3 with 8.3 at the moment.
> 
> ...


 All good info. :up: Please keep us posted your progress and what, if anything you/they can pinpoint, solved the problem.

Thanks!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

TromboneKenny said:


> Another thing that I don't think has been mentioned on this thread is temperature. For years, before my S3, I'd have seasonal cable signal problems. These only occur on the HD channels, but there would be a few that just pixelate/audio drop at different times of year with no change to my inside wiring or setup. I'd call my cable company, they'd come out and confirm the signal drop was too low at the cable tap outside my house, and a few days later it would be fixed.
> 
> It happened to me this spring/summer with ESPNHD and UHD. When the tech came out, I asked and he said temperature fluctuations affect the cable signal. Since we got 8.3 around the same time it started getting warm here in Illinois, could it really be a signal issue?
> 
> TBK, who wishes those coax signal meters were cheaper


 That's a very interesting point...hadn't thought about it. Folks from all over the country complained about the same time...including from the Northeast where it probably hadn't started heating up back in late April, early May. But you never know.

It does indeed appear to be a marginal signal issue that TiVo is very sensitive to, especially since the 8.3 upgrade. Hopefully everyone can get things rectified one way or another. It appears that there is no "silver bullet" fix for everyone, so each posting with a resolution may help the next person.

Well done. :up:


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## reber (Jan 14, 2007)

For what it's worth- 
Over the last 3 weeks, I have been seeing pixelation, and more annoyingly, audio drop outs on HBO-HD channels. These problems are isolated to HBO-HD channels.
I am on Comcast, and nothing has changed with my set-up (I am not sure of when the upgrade to 8.3 was)


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## AdmiralTivo (Feb 25, 2005)

My story doesn't quite jibe with others' in terms of the timing, but here goes. I purchased an S3 about 1 1/2 months ago, and got it set up with CableCards with no issues whatsoever. It updated itself to 8.3 within a couple of days, still so far so good. A couple of weeks ago, however, I started to notice the audio drops and pixelation on certain channels....both HD and non-HD alike. 

At the same time, I noticed that my broadband internet speeds were decreasing dramatically. Worried about the S3 issue, I still decided to tackle the internet slowdown issues first because I just assumed they were unrelated. A couple of calls to tech support revealed that there was "an outage" in my area that the field techs had been working on for about a week. I also noticed cable trucks working down the street....the last call I made to tech support, the tech said "You definitely have an issue, but I can't schedule a service call until the outage is cleared. Call back in an hour if you're still having problems." 

As if by magic, after an hour I checked my ISP speeds....I was back up to 5 Mbps, which I hadn't seen in a couple of weeks. And since that day I haven't seen any audio drops or pixelation either.....coincidence? I don't think so, it seems to point to an overall line quality/signal quality issue that my area was experiencing.

So for all of you seeing issues with your S3, check your internet speeds as well. The two may be related.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

AdmiralTivo said:


> My story doesn't quite jibe with others' in terms of the timing, but here goes. I purchased an S3 about 1 1/2 months ago, and got it set up with CableCards with no issues whatsoever. It updated itself to 8.3 within a couple of days, still so far so good. A couple of weeks ago, however, I started to notice the audio drops and pixelation on certain channels....both HD and non-HD alike.
> 
> At the same time, I noticed that my broadband internet speeds were decreasing dramatically. Worried about the S3 issue, I still decided to tackle the internet slowdown issues first because I just assumed they were unrelated. A couple of calls to tech support revealed that there was "an outage" in my area that the field techs had been working on for about a week. I also noticed cable trucks working down the street....the last call I made to tech support, the tech said "You definitely have an issue, but I can't schedule a service call until the outage is cleared. Call back in an hour if you're still having problems."
> 
> ...


 Checking broadband speed (if the connection is delivered by the cable company) is a very good suggestion and may indeed (but not necessarily) indicate a problem...a bit of a canary in a coal mine. :up:

We use Speakeasy to check our broadband speed. Of course the cable companies will only ask you to ping a website but that isn't the most reliable test.

In our area (which includes some townhouses) Comcast is constantly working at various homes as well as exchange boxes. Most of the techs I've talked to say they have more business than they can handle. Without disparaging their work it would be easy to see how signals could be compromised if only temporarily. It might also be easy for them to assume everything is fine until someone complains and in some cases, forces the issue. I doubt if they've had to deal with ensuring the type of pristine signal that TiVo S3's now appear to require.

Thanks for the heads up.


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## JFord (Nov 3, 2006)

I have a couple of observations I have made and some suggestions/requests to toss.

1. For unrelated reasons I moved my TiVo to a different HDTV I have that had previously had my Comcast DVR. The symptoms were slightly different. Rather than pixelation and audio drop I get a black screen and audio drop. If during one of these black outs I press a TiVo button (30-second skip, for instance) the command is executed but the audio feedback from the TiVo is not heard. All of this leads me to believe that every TV will react to this problem slightly differently.

2. It appears that most of my problems are now when the screen changes or a graphic is involved. One of the best (worst) examples of that is ESPN HD Sportscenter. They use a number of "exploding graphic" transitions and more often than not the TiVo drops out when those occur. I also noticed that flashback scenes such as in Without a Trace or CSI are extremely prone to the problem. I would be interested in hearing if any others are seeing the same problem.

3. Based on those two items I wonder if the problem is the encoding. When a poor signal is received the data written to the disk is essentially invalid. The playback decoder then gets confused by what it finds on the disk and puts out strange HD signals to the TV which now has to decode garbage once again. I wish I knew.

4. Have we done any surveys to determine how many people are having this problem and how bad it is? I would be interested in seeing a table with a row for each specific unit and columns for the location (city, state), cable system, most problematic channels, most problematic shows, and frequency of issue. Also, does it make sense to have everyone record a specific program and compare the results? Based on my schedule I can't volunteer to coordinate, but would contribute if anyone thinks it will help.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

JFord said:


> I have a couple of observations I have made and some suggestions/requests to toss.
> 
> 1. For unrelated reasons I moved my TiVo to a different HDTV I have that had previously had my Comcast DVR. The symptoms were slightly different. Rather than pixelation and audio drop I get a black screen and audio drop. If during one of these black outs I press a TiVo button (30-second skip, for instance) the command is executed but the audio feedback from the TiVo is not heard. All of this leads me to believe that every TV will react to this problem slightly differently.
> 
> ...


 Good observations. First and foremost we also experienced the audio/video dropout issue and it turned out to be the video/audio connection. We were using component video (YCrCb, YPbPr and YprPb) and optical audio out. We switched to HDMI and optical audio (actually left the component connection as well). As soon as we switched I noticed the audio and video dropout issues that you're seeing on some shows, Numb3rs in particular. I ended up rebooting TiVo (when I added an eSATA drive) and the problem went away completely. When TiVo boots up it "reads" all of the connections and sets things accordingly. I think that when we added HDMI and didn't reboot there were signal issues. Try unplugging TiVo, make a "clean" connection...either HDMI or Component, etc., plug TiVo back in and see if the problem isn't resolved.

It's normal not to hear the FF/RW audio cues when TiVo is running in Dolby 5.1 mode as they (TiVo's sound effects) are in a different format. If you're used to it on an S2 or and S1 it takes a little getting used to.

So it sounds like your TiVo is behaving fairly normal and a couple of adjustments and a reboot should cure those details.

Keep us posted! :up:


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

I have this problem as well (as documented in the S3 lockup thread). I had no idea that a software upgrade could cause this kind of issue, as the problem really manifests itself as a cableco/signal issue. After weeks of troubleshooting, I finally narrowed it down to the TiVo. After a long support call with TiVo (and a small conference call with Comcast), I got an RMA unit sent out that has no problems, even using the same cablecards in the unit that went "bad". You can certainly add my voice to the chorus that 8.3 ruined an otherwise perfectly good unit that worked fine for almost six months.

New completely functional unit software version - 8.0.1
Old and busted unit software version - 8.3

My problems also cropped up during the same time period people are reporting they got 8.3. I can't necessarily confirm I got 8.3 during the same time, of course, as I don't track the software version of my units. I rely on TiVo to manage that for me. In any case, it's awfully coincidental.

I'm going to try and get the new box onto 8.3, just to see if it will die as well. That would certainly put the nail in the coffin.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rtmoore4 said:


> I have this problem as well (as documented in the S3 lockup thread). I had no idea that a software upgrade could cause this kind of issue, as the problem really manifests itself as a cableco/signal issue. After weeks of troubleshooting, I finally narrowed it down to the TiVo. After a long support call with TiVo (and a small conference call with Comcast), I got an RMA unit sent out that has no problems, even using the same cablecards in the unit that went "bad". You can certainly add my voice to the chorus that 8.3 ruined an otherwise perfectly good unit that worked fine for almost six months.
> 
> New completely functional unit software version - 8.0.1
> Old and busted unit software version - 8.3
> ...


 Good information. As you say, it doesn't seem we can positively connect the trouble directly to the recent FW upgrade...the "lockup issue" is new. Others were mostly reporting pixelization and audio problems, not so much freezing, etc. which is usually more of a data corruption/HDD issue.

We can trace our audio/video problems back to the day we received the 8.3 upgrade (May 12th) but they dissipated over a period of about six weeks and everything has been fine since then.

You'll no doubt receive an automatic upgrade to v8.3 on your new unit in the next 24 to 48 hours. It will download and then your TiVo will reboot at 2 a.m. There were reports of people trying to "force" the update earlier by repeatedly connecting and rebooting, but I don't recall anyone having any success. If your TiVo is connected via broadband (direct or wi-fi) it checks in with the Mother Ship every 15 minutes anyway and of course if you're on dial-up it will do it every 24 hours or so. You shouldn't have to wait too long.

Best of luck. Hopefully this will take care of the issue, but let us know how it goes with your new TiVo. :up:


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Good information. As you say, it doesn't seem we can positively connect the trouble directly to the recent FW upgrade...the "lockup issue" is new. Others were mostly reporting pixelization and audio problems, not so much freezing, etc. which is usually more of a data corruption/HDD issue.


Actually, I believe the two are closely linked. It's only when the pixelation and audio problems get super nasty that the TiVo refuses input and will occasionally reboot. It's like the CPU is trying to figure out how to deal with the bad signals and can't do anything else. For example, the freezing almost never happens on an SD channel, but only happens when you try to tune in an HD signal. Given the significant additional volume of data in an HD signal, it seems to make sense that this is mostly where the CPU would get overwhelmed and unable to process any further input. At least that is my best explanation for what I am seeing.

As an aside, main box functionality should never be affected by input. This is a recipe for disaster. You have to either have input checking to prevent "bad things" from killing your box OR a separate processing path for incoming signals and unit functions. Input checking would essentially say, "if things get strange enough, give up and present a blank screen to the user."



richsadams said:


> We can trace our audio/video problems back to the day we received the 8.3 upgrade (May 12th) but they dissipated over a period of about six weeks and everything has been fine since then.


Hmmm, mine has been the opposite experience. My symptoms have gotten steadily worse over that period.



richsadams said:


> You'll no doubt receive an automatic upgrade to v8.3 on your new unit in the next 24 to 48 hours. It will download and then your TiVo will reboot at 2 a.m. There were reports of people trying to "force" the update earlier by repeatedly connecting and rebooting, but I don't recall anyone having any success. If your TiVo is connected via broadband (direct or wi-fi) it checks in with the Mother Ship every 15 minutes anyway and of course if you're on dial-up it will do it every 24 hours or so. You shouldn't have to wait too long.
> 
> Best of luck. Hopefully this will take care of the issue, but let us know how it goes with your new TiVo. :up:


Still no 8.3 on the new unit. The unit apparently doesn't think it is currently the active unit as the TiVo website still has my old DVR serial number listed for my account. I'm betting the new code won't get downloaded until the new unit considers itself to have "service".


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rtmoore4 said:


> Still no 8.3 on the new unit. The unit apparently doesn't think it is currently the active unit as the TiVo website still has my old DVR serial number listed for my account. I'm betting the new code won't get downloaded until the new unit considers itself to have "service".


 Yes, that sounds correct. In fact you may need to contact TiVo and have them update the serial number if you can't do it on line...but a least you can enjoy it now!


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

Mike Malter said:


> I am experiencing an increase of lots of audio and video problems. It is pretty wierd, all of a sudden the audio drops and the screen goes crazy with bands of pixels showing random colors and images. And then all of a sudden it stops. It is really wierd and recent.


Same thing here. I get a line from left to right on my tv every once in a while. I only watch hd programming btw. I have had my entire house rewired with studio quality RG6 4 months ago and had no problems at all until last week. Signal is good and wiring on all components good. Happening on both series3. One using component and the other using hdmi.

One tivo is from last years launch and the other is a fathers day gift of this year.

Both using two cablecards on comcast Seattle.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chipvideo said:


> Same thing here. I get a line from left to right on my tv every once in a while. I only watch hd programming btw. I have had my entire house rewired with studio quality RG6 4 months ago and had no problems at all until last week. Signal is good and wiring on all components good. Happening on both series3. One using component and the other using hdmi.
> 
> One tivo is from last years launch and the other is a fathers day gift of this year.
> 
> Both using two cablecards on comcast Seattle.


If it's showing up on both S3's it's a very good bet that it's an incoming signal issue. I'd chase up Comcast and have them take a look at the signal coming into your house.


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

richsadams said:


> If it's showing up on both S3's it's a very good bet that it's an incoming signal issue. I'd chase up Comcast and have them take a look at the signal coming into your house.


If I think about it. Seems as though the problems might be related to the way comcast is billing now. I did have them rehit my cards as I complained about my billing and then my premium hd programming and a few others wouldn't show up on my screen and they had to rehit them for the tivo billing. I really think it is not a signal issue comming to the house. I do have a electroline 8 port amp. It is the best out there. These problems definitely havent happened until July.

The signal on my moto box is more than fine. No problems on the moto box whatsoever. On the one screen it shows 21 for snr and 15 agc. Both labeld good. Been like that for ever. No noise,pixleation or audio dropouts on that. Only on the tivo3 units.


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## El-Cid (Jul 5, 2007)

Hey folks, just updating, though the problem is not solved yet.

Comcast has come out, and here is what they did:

First the service person checked the signal, noting that we had a "-4" after the split, "-1" before the split, and that the cable box should have at least a "+1" all this seems to be measured in 'db's and I mention this not because I know what I am talking about, but I imagine someone might. We are in a suburb, and our line runs a good ways from the central line before splitting up to our cable modem and some different tvs along with the main, hd tv, where I have the cable box and the HD Tivo (cable box for watching On Demand)

As of Monday, we have also been having problems with our internet.

Our service person installed an amplifier behind the hdtv, pre splitter, comcast stock issue, which did not solve the pixelization. He also told us that we would have to replace the cable cards, (just take them into comcast office and switch out) and that we would pretty much be off-internet until the end of the week. (I set up my notebook and its verizon wireless card to share its slooow internet access at the moment)

This stems from his assertion that Comcast is still in the process of switching equipment over from our old provider, Time Warner - that cablecards will not work with the new system, and that there are drop-outs due to 'quorum' issues.

So, our plan of action is now:
We are getting the cheapest DSL as an internet backup - time warner and comcast have both caused periodic outages, and since we rely on the internet to telecommute, we gotta have some connection at all times.
I wait until Monday and go change out the cable cards at the Comcast store and spend an hour or two setting those up again.
Pray

Two things about the amplifier - Do folks think there is a big advantage to having a more 'quality' amplifier, as opposed to the Comcast stock issue?
Also, I know nothing about electronics, signaling, etc., but if you put the amplifier right behind the tv, where the signal was already -1, I would imagine that the signal would be degraded and you are just amplifying that degraded information?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

El Cid. If you really need a +1dB signal then putting am amp on a -1 dB signal is only going to amplify an already substandard signal. The Amp would theoretically need to be placed somewhere there is at least a +1 signal as a baseline.


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

bareyb said:


> El Cid. If you really need a +1dB signal then putting am amp on a -1 dB signal is only going to amplify an already substandard signal. The Amp would theoretically need to be placed somewhere there is at least a +1 signal as a baseline.


+1

In addition, to answer your question about the quality of amps. In my experience, the quality of the amps (and splitters, for that matter) that your cableco installs are usually much better than you will get on your own. Certainly no retail shop (Radio Shack, for example) is going to have anything close to that quality. If you think about it, it's in their best interests to have the best equipment available, because if they don't, then they have to roll another truck and deal with troubleshooting crappy signals due to bad amps and splitters, which becomes expensive for them. ...not to mention, ticking off customers. In any case, I always use what they provide and it works out pretty well for me. I've tried using my own amps and splitters by the way, and the signal is never as good.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bareyb said:


> El Cid. If you really need a +1dB signal then putting am amp on a -1 dB signal is only going to amplify an already substandard signal. The Amp would theoretically need to be placed somewhere there is at least a +1 signal as a baseline.


Are there any "reasonably priced" meters out there to measure the CATV signal? By reasonably priced, I mean anything under a couple of hundred dollars. If there are none in that price range, where does an entry level meter start on the price scale?

Thanks


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Are there any "reasonable priced" meters out there to measure the CATV signal? By reasonable priced, I mean anything under a couple of hundred dollars. If there are none in that price range, where does an entry level meter start on the price scale?
> 
> Thanks


If you have one of the cableco's cable boxes then you already have a reasonable facimile. Just go into diag mode and you can read signal strength and SNR as well as BER.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Are there any "reasonable priced" meters out there to measure the CATV signal? By reasonable priced, I mean anything under a couple of hundred dollars. If there are none in that price range, where does an entry level meter start on the price scale?
> 
> Thanks


I have the cheapest Sadelco Minimax meter and unfortunately it cost over a thousand bucks. And that was over ten years ago... 

Your best bet is to have the cable guys over (again) and have them take several readings. I'd also ask them to replace any fittings that might be in question and remove anything extra that might be in the signal path. In my case the simple removal of a ground loop breaker transformed my S3. I haven't had a major problem with it in over a month.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

SCSIRAID said:


> If you have one of the cableco's cable boxes then you already have a reasonable facimile. Just go into diag mode and you can read signal strength and SNR as well as BER.


I turned them all back in when I got the S3...


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bareyb said:


> I have the cheapest Sadelco Minimax meter and unfortunately it cost over a thousand bucks. And that was over ten years ago...
> 
> Your best bet is to have the cable guys over (again) and have them take several readings. I'd also ask them to replace any fittings that might be in question and remove anything extra that might be in the signal path. In my case the simple removal of a ground loop breaker transformed my S3. I haven't had a major problem with it in over a month.


Everything is working fine for me - I'm was just hoping I could afford a meter


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Everything is working fine for me - I'm was just hoping I could afford a meter


If you find a cheap one let us know.


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## pfibiger (Apr 24, 2007)

i've been having this problem for a couple of months. pixelation and audio dropouts every 5-10 minutes, exacerbated by my AVR, which would lose dolby digital and reaquire, so the audio would drop for 2+ seconds. I had the cable co out 6 times, they replaced every single string of cable from the pole to my house, even when the signal was already "very good." I called tivo, they said "replace the cable cards. if that doesn't work we'll replace the box" cable co came out again, swapped cards, still had the same problem.

I called tivo today, the woman was about to send me a new box and decided to check with a supervisor. i spoke with him, he checked with a series 3 engineering contact, turns out it is now a known issue, it's an issue of macroblocking, a miscommunication between the tivo OS and the cablecard's firmware. It only happens with some cablecards. He said that they hope to have the fix included in the next software update, which he said was happening "soon." When pressed, he couldn't say whether soon meant 3 weeks or 3 months.

I'm glad I didn't have to swap out my box for an equally non-working box, and I'm glad that Tivo has said "it will be fixed." I just hope it's soon.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

pfibiger said:


> i've been having this problem for a couple of months. pixelation and audio dropouts every 5-10 minutes, exacerbated by my AVR, which would lose dolby digital and reaquire, so the audio would drop for 2+ seconds. I had the cable co out 6 times, they replaced every single string of cable from the pole to my house, even when the signal was already "very good." I called tivo, they said "replace the cable cards. if that doesn't work we'll replace the box" cable co came out again, swapped cards, still had the same problem.
> 
> I called tivo today, the woman was about to send me a new box and decided to check with a supervisor. i spoke with him, he checked with a series 3 engineering contact, turns out it is now a known issue, it's an issue of macroblocking, a miscommunication between the tivo OS and the cablecard's firmware. It only happens with some cablecards. He said that they hope to have the fix included in the next software update, which he said was happening "soon." When pressed, he couldn't say whether soon meant 3 weeks or 3 months.
> 
> I'm glad I didn't have to swap out my box for an equally non-working box, and I'm glad that Tivo has said "it will be fixed." I just hope it's soon.


 That's very interesting and good information. It confirms that many people who have posted problems are NOT crazy! :up:

Can you tell us what cableco you have and if by chance you know, what cable cards are being used?

This confirmation of a "known issue" with cable cards can also explain why some people see the problem and others don't...and more importantly that it will require a software update to correct. This leads me to the conclusion that there was indeed a problem that materialized with the 8.3 update if they are going to "fix" it with the next software update.

This is certainly an "ah-ha!" for a lot of us. The only question now is when the next update will appear. TiVo has been busy beta testing MRV/TiVoToGo as well as activating/supporting the eSATA drive. Todays comments from TiVo indicate that those features will be active "soon" and I'd wager that will be when we'll see the next software update. Any guess as to what "soon" means?


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## pfibiger (Apr 24, 2007)

richsadams said:


> That's very interesting and good information. It confirms that many people who have posted problems are NOT crazy! :up:
> 
> Can you tell us what cableco you have and if by chance you know, what cable cards are being used?


Brighthouse Cable in Orlando, FL. I don't know what brand of cablecard I have, but I know when they replaced my cards, they replaced them with the same model (and year of manufacture, 2007). Now that I think about it, I'm not positive but I think they might have been Scientific Atlanta cards.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

pfibiger said:


> Brighthouse Cable in Orlando, FL. I don't know what brand of cablecard I have, but I know when they replaced my cards, they replaced them with the same model (and year of manufacture, 2007). Now that I think about it, I'm not positive but I think they might have been Scientific Atlanta cards.


 Thanks for that. The photos of the equipment on their website look to be of an SA box, so it's probably true that they have SA cable cards.

Thanks again...this will help some very frustrated people. I just hope they continue to have patience!


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## cassy (Jan 25, 2007)

Same S3 problem seen out here in SF Bay area with comcast cablecards OR OTA HD and 8.3.

On either channel 5-1 (OTA) or 703 (Comcast HD) it will pixellate then hang and reboot after a while. Non HD is ok. Twas working for many months before this.

It'll be stuck in a reboot loop as it is still tuned to that hd channel, gotta remove both coax connections, change channel, to settle it down.

Funny thing is, on my S2, I've seen it rebooting more too.


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## rcr2 (Feb 3, 2007)

I just got my replacement box and last night it was upgraded to the 8.3 latest firmware. Let's see what happens once I get the cards re-authorized.

But if it's a known issue with the firmware, then roll back to the last known working firmware, people!


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## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

I had Charter cable out this week 3 times and four brand new cable cards have been installed in both my S3's. The lines from the street to the house have been checked, as have the interior cables. The pixelization and dropouts are still ocurring on channels 790 - StarzHD and 799 - MHD. Also, I am experiencing problems today on 770 - HDNET. Problems also randomly occur on SD channels 26 - ESPN2 and 43 - HGTV. These problems all seem to have started after the 8.3 update.


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

rcr2 said:


> I just got my replacement box and last night it was upgraded to the 8.3 latest firmware. Let's see what happens once I get the cards re-authorized.
> 
> But if it's a known issue with the firmware, then roll back to the last known working firmware, people!


Is there anyway for us to rollback. I think it should be required. I had comcast come out today and signal was perfect. Its the tivos. My other moto box is working fine, but not the tivos. I get a line from left to right on my tv for a milisecond every so often. Very irritating.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

chipvideo said:


> Is there anyway for us to rollback. I think it should be required. I had comcast come out today and signal was perfect. Its the tivos. My other moto box is working fine, but not the tivos. I get a line from left to right on my tv for a milisecond every so often. Very irritating.


Many times the cable company forgets to put a ground block where the cables first enter the house. There should be one there and nowhere else. Often times this can eliminate the lines you are seeing and it may also solve your problems with the TiVo. Whatever you do, don't install a ground breaker.

As far as being able to roll back? I don't think I've ever heard of that, but hey you never know. I have also read various rumors that a fix is coming that should help with some of the problems people are having, but of course nobody knows when. I wonder if the new HD boxes have any of the same problems? I guess we'll be seeing in a few more days once installs begin.


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## mstrroissy (Dec 13, 2006)

Aloha,

I've read this thread from beginning to end because I too am one of the believers in a software issue causing our audio drops/pixilation problems.

I purchased my series 3 in December and had a good and painless CC install, and all was well with the world. The series 3 rocked. I looked through the forums and was thankful that I wasn't one of the ones with all the problems that were popping up. At that time I was still on the 8.0.1 software....then 8.1....still no problems. I thought I must be really lucky.

My luck ran out with 8.3 though. Almost as soon as I read the software update message I started loosing channels to pixilation problems. Seemed like it was only the HD channels first, then some more of the digital channels, and at the end even the analogs were messing up....AND over the air HDTV which the cableco actually CAN'T be blamed for....although if I try hard enough....

So after all was said and done, I have gone through 3 sets of cable cards (1 SA set and two Motorola) Tried a cableco amp, bought a "Good amp" as proclaimed by one of the neigh Sayers to no avail, had all the cable in the house replaced with new digital quality, all splitters replaced, cable from the pole to the house checked, grounding block checked and replaced, cable from the pole to the house checked then re-run, then the connection plate on the pole checked, cleaned, and replaced. Still nothing....and then the over the air problems, so I would have to say the problem is most definitely NOT a CableCO issue they have done everything in their power to fix this issue. Oh and then the re-booting started, about every other day it would give the GSOD and do a reboot. I finally gave up, and said it HAS to be the box, it's the only thing that has remained constant....well that and the pixilation problems. I finally called Tivo, and they didn't even ask what we had tried, just said they would send a new box.

So I am happy to report, that the new box is installed, and arrived running 8.0.1, and all is well with the world for now. I think when I get home I am going to force a connection and try to get 8.3 installed... and see if my probs come back. 

Something I was wondering though, is what is the correlation between users that have had issues after the 8.3 update and the use their harddrives/tivo has had before the update. What I am thinking is that being a HDD and assumably suffering from the same fragmentation issues facing a PC hard drive, is that the update gets messed up because the update is written where ever there is space, not in a clean linear way. When I got my update the first time, my drive was nearly full, and I had just added an external drive. This theory only holds if the Tivo OS doesn't actually reside on it's own separate partition on the drive though. Comments?

thanks for giving a place to ramble on,
Kevin


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

I have had my Series 3 since January. After software version 8.3 I noticed a significant increase in pixelation/audio drop outs. They happen on average every 5 minutes and last for a second or less. I have these dropouts on ALL of my HD premium channels such as ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, HBOHD, MOJOHD, HDNET, HDNETMV, UHD and DISCOVERYHD. I also see it on all MLB EI channels, on all non-HD premium channels (all HBO channels), low number channels such as channel 9 ( ABC 11 in Raleigh ). Interestingly I do *NOT* see any dropouts on the network HD channels, none of them, ever! I also do not see the dropouts when using OTA. Channels such as the cable news channels and kids channels like Cartoon Network, Nick all seem to be free of the dropout problems.

I have had TWC out 5 times over the last 45 days, they have checked all coax connections, checked the signal level (very strong), checked the line coming from the street. They installed an amp several weeks ago, then removed the coax going to the TiVo from the amp last week because of overamping. I had them out this past Tuesday and had 2 new cablecards installed, old ones were 2006 mfg date, new ones are 2007 mfg date. They ran a cable from the street into the house to speed up the process and check for pix/audio dropouts. After the cards firmware updated and they were authorized by TWC, all taking an amazing short 30 minutes, pix/audio dropouts returned within 10 minutes and are still happening as of now. I even installed an HDMI cable directly to my HDTV per another thread here that suggested some connection between output connection and the dropouts. Still no success.

I am the last one to blame software, I work in IT support, however I am running out of reasons to believe its anything else but the 8.3 upgrade.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

crazywater said:


> I have had my Series 3 since January. After software version 8.3 I noticed a significant increase in pixelation/audio drop outs. They happen on average every 5 minutes and last for a second or less. I have these dropouts on ALL of my HD premium channels such as ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, HBOHD, MOJOHD, HDNET, HDNETMV, UHD and DISCOVERYHD. I also see it on all MLB EI channels, on all non-HD premium channels (all HBO channels), low number channels such as channel 9 ( ABC 11 in Raleigh ). Interestingly I do *NOT* see any dropouts on the network HD channels, none of them, ever! I also do not see the dropouts when using OTA. Channels such as the cable news channels and kids channels like Cartoon Network, Nick all seem to be free of the dropout problems.
> 
> I have had TWC out 5 times over the last 45 days, they have checked all coax connections, checked the signal level (very strong), checked the line coming from the street. They installed an amp several weeks ago, then removed the coax going to the TiVo from the amp last week because of overamping. I had them out this past Tuesday and had 2 new cablecards installed, old ones were 2006 mfg date, new ones are 2007 mfg date. They ran a cable from the street into the house to speed up the process and check for pix/audio dropouts. After the cards firmware updated and they were authorized by TWC, all taking an amazing short 30 minutes, pix/audio dropouts returned within 10 minutes and are still happening as of now. I even installed an HDMI cable directly to my HDTV per another thread here that suggested some connection between output connection and the dropouts. Still no success.
> 
> I am the last one to blame software, I work in IT support, however I am running out of reasons to believe its anything else but the 8.3 upgrade.


 Agreed...can't think of anything else here either. Hopefully the next FW update will be out soon.

The strange thing for us was that we experienced the audio/video issues the very day we received the 8.3 upgrade (May 11th) but the problems began to "fade" (for lack of a better word) and after about six weeks things seemed to return to normal. We still get the odd video breakup, mostly on HD channels (both cable and network), but no more than I would expect for OTA or could blame on cable delivery glitches.

It would be nice to be able to execute a FW rollback, but I suspect that would impact a number of the new features that have come our way recently and I can't imagine TiVo risking those...better to have a few unhappy customers? 

Our S3 is on v8.3.1 and the DT S2 is on v8.3.01. Is that where yours stands?

We'll keep an eye on them! 

Thanks for sharing and let us know how it goes.


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## mstrroissy (Dec 13, 2006)

richsadams said:


> Sounds like you're on Island time? We used to live in Kailua Kona...miss it sometimes.


Unfortunately I am no longer in paradise, I had to move for the job, just haven't given up on the aloha spirit. Now where's the chaka emoticon?


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

richsadams said:


> Agreed...can't think of anything else here either. Hopefully the next FW update will be out soon.
> 
> The strange thing for us was that we experienced the audio/video issues the very day we received the 8.3 upgrade (May 11th) but the problems began to "fade" (for lack of a better word) and after about six weeks things seemed to return to normal. We still get the odd video breakup, mostly on HD channels (both cable and network), but no more than I would expect for OTA or could blame on cable delivery glitches.
> 
> ...


Exactly...

I was not aware that TiVo has acknowledged this problem, as mentioned in previous post. So I suppose if they are actively working on a fix perhaps being patient instead of trying to get a replacement box from TiVo is the way to go...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mstrroissy said:


> Aloha,
> 
> I've read this thread from beginning to end because I too am one of the believers in a software issue causing our audio drops/pixilation problems.
> 
> ...


Aloha! Wow!  Another candidate for the Red Badge of Courage! Thanks for the in-depth look at your situation. It looks like you've done everything imaginable to rectify the issue.

Your original box sounds like it may or may not have encountered the 8.3 update/cable card "macroblocking" problem that TiVo is now acknowledging. Based on all of the feedback it doesn't appear that 8.3 has caused anyone rebooting problems...that is generally associated with corrupted data which can be caused by bad sectors or possibly bad read/write heads on the HDD. Seeing the pixalization problem on OTA recordings leads me to suspect that the HDD was in trouble. But it may have been exacerbated by the 8.3 update, who knows?

I also note that you have an external eSATA drive. Depending on the situation, there are a number of reasons for TiVo rebooting as well. You've probably seen it, but if not check this thread  for more info (particularly #3 under "Troubleshooting").

Glad to hear that they've opted to send you a new box...bummer about losing any programs though.  At least now you know you're working with the best input you could possibly get.

With regard to the update and "disk full" theory...it's not a bad one but not likely a problem. TiVo HDD's have several partitions. One holds the current software/OS and another is available for the download and execution of the next software update so there is always a partition dedicated to and one available for running the programs. The rest of the drive is available for recording.

Others have tried to "force" the update without success. It should come soon. Once it's downloaded TiVo will update at 2 a.m.

Sounds like you're on Island time? We used to live in Kailua Kona...miss it sometimes. 

Please keep us posted! :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mstrroissy said:


> Unfortunately I am no longer in paradise, I had to move for the job, just haven't given up on the aloha spirit. Now where's the chaka emoticon?


 Hey bro, dat's da kine spirit we like.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

crazywater said:


> Exactly...
> 
> I was not aware that TiVo has acknowledged this problem, as mentioned in previous post. So I suppose if they are actively working on a fix perhaps being patient instead of trying to get a replacement box from TiVo is the way to go...


 The "acknowledgement" came in the form of an earlier post by pfibiger  who talked to a TiVo supervisor about it. :up:

If I were still having the problems I certainly wouldn't hesitate to call TiVo and let them know though. The more complaints they get, the more pressure they should feel to get things back on track.

I'd guess that the development and recent hoopla over the new TiVo HD sidetracked them for a bit, but now that it's in the wild hopefully they'll focus on getting their current customers taken care of.


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## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

bsather said:


> I had Charter cable out this week 3 times and four brand new cable cards have been installed in both my S3's. The lines from the street to the house have been checked, as have the interior cables. The pixelization and dropouts are still ocurring on channels 790 - StarzHD and 799 - MHD. Also, I am experiencing problems today on 770 - HDNET. Problems also randomly occur on SD channels 26 - ESPN2 and 43 - HGTV. These problems all seem to have started after the 8.3 update.


Update: Charter installed a cable card in my TV today, and StarzHD & MHD work fine with zero problems. He did say I was getting "too strong" of a signal coming in and they would have to turn it down.


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## mstrroissy (Dec 13, 2006)

Well,

As mentioned I had gotten a replacement S3 from Tivo and thought that ABSOLUTELY had to be the problem after having jumped through all the other hoops. So while on 8.0.1 we had one show pixelate and figured that could be counted as acceptable loss (even though when I was using the CableCo DVR never had anything like this happen - had the random drops but all were easily fixed and none always on one channel).

So we were updated to 8.3 at 2am Sunday morning and I am back to where I was before. Heavy pixelation/audio drops on various channels. Seems to be only on one cable card though....so I am back EXACTLY to square one. When I call the Cableco to come and replace the one card that I think is messing up I bet the second one will go on the blink.....anyone want to make a wager? I guess I will just give up on this thing, I know that I am not the only one having problems but this is ridiculous. 

I guess I will be getting rid of the cable cards and doing standard cable/ota hd. With all the new CableCo stuff my standard cable should look almost as good as many of the users still having problems with the digital signal...LOL

Someone earlier in this thread asked about acceptable levels of distortion/audio drops etc. I never chimed in, but that was when I thought it was a small problem and I was just over looking the solution. For $800+ (thats a s3+lifetime transfer) there should be NO pixelation. NO audiodrops, and the performance should be flawless. I paid for the best. I should have gotten the best. The new cableco DVR's are going to Cable card encoders too, I wonder how their boxes will work.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mstrroissy said:


> Well,
> 
> As mentioned I had gotten a replacement S3 from Tivo and thought that ABSOLUTELY had to be the problem after having jumped through all the other hoops. So while on 8.0.1 we had one show pixelate and figured that could be counted as acceptable loss (even though when I was using the CableCo DVR never had anything like this happen - had the random drops but all were easily fixed and none always on one channel).
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for keeping us updated :up: ...but how disappointing.  Although TiVo is now acknowledging that there is a "macroblocking" problem with some cable cards, your experience certainly confirms our suspicions that the 8.3 "upgrade" is the culprit.

It is interesting that the problem seems to only be happening on one cable card though. Hopefully a replacement will rectify it, but you're right, it wouldn't be a good bet. Please let us know what happens.

I agree that there shouldn't be any pixelization or audio problems that could be attributed to TiVo. But I also understand that the signal coming from any source, cable, satellite, OTA will never be perfect so I'm in the camp of those expecting to see some slight issues now and then. However your experience is unacceptable...and attributable to TiVo it would seem.

Let's hope they get the new software update that's supposed to cure this issue out sooner than later!


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

Let's hope the software update will be sooner rather than later as my pixalation and audio dropouts are the worst they have ever been.

My one year anniversary with the S3 is coming up soon and these problems have been present since day 1. Some software versions have been better than others, but 8.3 is by far the worst.


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

ehardman said:


> Let's hope the software update will be sooner rather than later as my pixalation and audio dropouts are the worst they have ever been.
> 
> My one year anniversary with the S3 is coming up soon and these problems have been present since day 1. Some software versions have been better than others, but 8.3 is by far the worst.


Agreed. I have two S3's with one of them being a lifetime transfer i paid for. So its a large amount of money for me to spend on something that is horrible to watch in the middle of a movie. I just hate this 8.3 update. They should instantly give us back our older firmware now. There is nothing in the new update that I would miss anyhow. I just want to record and watch my movies the way they are supposed to be.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chipvideo said:


> Agreed. I have two S3's with one of them being a lifetime transfer i paid for. So its a large amount of money for me to spend on something that is horrible to watch in the middle of a movie. I just hate this 8.3 update. They should instantly give us back our older firmware now. There is nothing in the new update that I would miss anyhow. I just want to record and watch my movies the way they are supposed to be.


Really frustrating! Have you called TiVo to complain? If not I certainly would.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

That really sucks. I'd stay on top of the cable company too. There must be some problem somewhere near your home. Possibly at the pedestal or even before that. These boxes can work almost flawlessly but it sure seems dependent on a pristine signal from the Cableco. I had horrible problems for months. Now even with an expanded hard drive, it's all but flawless. One tiny simple problem fixed on my cable line turned the whole thing around. 

I hope the rumors are true that Tivo has some kind of fix for this "macro blocking" problem because quite frankly, with the threshold so fine on signal quality I'm worried some little tiny thing is going to change on my system and I'm going to be right back in TiVo hell again.


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

richsadams said:


> Really frustrating! Have you called TiVo to complain? If not I certainly would.


Like most others with this problem, I have called Tivo more times than I can count.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ehardman said:


> Like most others with this problem, I have called Tivo more times than I can count.


 :up: It would be interesting to hear what they had to say on this subject.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

I've been reading a number of threads on the new TiVo HD box (thinking about replacing my DT S2). There are quite a few reports that they are having pixelization problems...specifically with the #2 cable card slot. When known "good cards" (cable card in slot #1 shows no problems for instance) are inserted in slot #2 the problem continues. FYI, it's my understanding that the new TiVo HD is not running FW v8.3 (yet) but a version only found on the TiVo HD.

*EDIT: * According to this thread  TiVo HD FW has been updated to 8.1.7b which may have addressed the macroblocking issue.

Several people that have the problem are also reporting that TiVo CSR's are now saying that it is "known issue" which means they've been able to reproduce it in their labs. They (the CSR's) are telling people that they are working on it.

It appears that there may be one common denominator with the people that are having problems: Scientific Atlanta cable cards.

I'm wondering if SA cards are delivering marginal signals or have some other issue that's affecting TiVo's ability to process the signal for the new TiVo HD's (which is manifesting itself in the #2 slot for some reason) and if so are the folks that see this same problem with their S3's using SA cards?

If you're having or have had pixelization/audio problems can you let us know what type of cable card you have (SA, Motorola, etc.)?

As TiVo has acknowledged that the problem exists for S3's and it occurred with the rollout of v8.3...perhaps we can really narrow this down to a specific cable card/8.3 problem. That sort of combination would explain why some people are seeing this and not others and why some "fixes" seem to work and not others.

Thoughts?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Here's another TiVo HD post  on the subject that might be of interest to folks here.


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

richsadams said:


> I've been reading a number of threads on the new TiVo HD box (thinking about replacing my DT S2). There are quite a few reports that they are having pixelization problems...specifically with the #2 cable card slot. When known "good cards" (cable card in slot #1 shows no problems for instance) are inserted in slot #2 the problem continues. FYI, it's my understanding that the new TiVo HD is not running FW v8.3 (yet) but a version only found on the TiVo HD.
> 
> Several people that have the problem are also reporting that TiVo CSR's are now saying that it is "known issue" which means they've been able to reproduce it in their labs. They (the CSR's) are telling people that they are working on it.
> 
> ...


Using Moto cards.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chipvideo said:


> Using Moto cards.


Well, that may or may not shoot down the SA card problem theory. 

Also noted that the TiVo HD has just received a new FW upgrade on this thread  to 8.1.7b (from 8.1.7a) which may have addressed their macroblocking issues.

*EDIT: * According to the TiVo HD thread the update did indeed fix the macroblocking issue they had.

So where is our S3 FW update?


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## WeBoat (Nov 6, 2002)

I just forced a call and got new software after a restart. Hopefully it wil address the pixelation problems I was getting.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

WeBoat said:


> I just forced a call and got new software after a restart. Hopefully it wil address the pixelation problems I was getting.


Noted on the other thread. Can you let us know if it addressed your macroblocking issues?

This was a FW update for his TiVo HD, not a Series 3.


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## WeBoat (Nov 6, 2002)

Sorry. Misunderstood, it was for my Tivo HD also.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

WeBoat said:


> Sorry. Misunderstood, it was for my Tivo HD also.


 Also? As in also you have another TiVo that received a software update or you meant it was just for your TiVo HD?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

The TiVo HD received a software update last night - that's all. No updates for other units.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

megazone said:


> The TiVo HD received a software update last night - that's all. No updates for other units.


That's what I thought. Looks like the TiVo HD update hasn't resolved everyone's problems either.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

richsadams said:


> That's what I thought. Looks like the TiVo HD update hasn't resolved everyone's problems either.


Nope. TiVo had this to say:


> We are aware that a small subset of TiVo HD users have reported experiencing some macroblocking on certain channels. We are gathering appropriate information about the issue to understand possible causes and hope to be able to resolve any known issues as soon as possible. We released a software update on August 1st that should fix this issue for many users.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

megazone said:


> Nope. TiVo had this to say:


Thanks for checking in.

That has to be really aggravating to the "new to TiVo" users. Hope it doesn't put too many off.

Hopefully whatever they're learning under the gun on the TiVo HD will translate into some improvements for the next S3 updatemany of those owners are aggravated too!


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## GoldenTiger (Apr 11, 2002)

richsadams said:


> That's what I thought. Looks like the TiVo HD update hasn't resolved everyone's problems either.


It sure hasn't! I am having the issue still with BOTH card slots on my TivoHD with Scientific Atlanta cablecards on Comcast in southwestern Connecticut as well. Before the cablecards were installed, I had no issues at all... once they were installed, there has been huge macro-blocking very often (once every minute or more at times on some channels such as my locals and especially HD premiums like TNT-HD).

I really hope the patch isn't the end of the fixes, because for me, it did not do anything (I am on the newest version as of this posting according to the system information screen). Large portions of the video often lag behind, as well, then block up and "catch up" with the rest of the picture.

I've seen some pixelation on MENU SCREENS even, somehow! I'm using an HDMI connection.

I really don't want to have to return my TiVoHD's to the store due to this, as I enjoy TiVo's boxes much more than the cableco. ones and have for several years.

Anyone have the contact info page for TiVo so I can try to email them regarding my issues?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

GoldenTiger said:


> It sure hasn't! I am having the issue still with BOTH card slots on my TivoHD with Scientific Atlanta cablecards on Comcast in southwestern Connecticut as well. Before the cablecards were installed, I had no issues at all... once they were installed, there has been huge macro-blocking very often (once every minute or more at times on some channels such as my locals and especially HD premiums like TNT-HD).
> 
> I really hope the patch isn't the end of the fixes, because for me, it did not do anything (I am on the newest version as of this posting according to the system information screen). Large portions of the video often lag behind, as well, then block up and "catch up" with the rest of the picture.
> 
> ...


You've probably tried, but if not, try a hard reboot. Unplug TiVo for 15 to 30 seconds (enough time for the drive to spin down, cache to clear, etc.) and plug it back in.

If you have a composite (YPbPr) cable handy you might want to try it directly between TiVo and your TV instead of HDMI to see if it makes any difference. Make sure you reboot TiVo if/when you switch between HDMI and composite.

If all else fails the best bet is to call a TiVo CSR and let them know; tell them you want to return it and youll probably end up with a supervisor at least...they seem to be aware of everything and continued calls should add more pressure to fix this issue. (I don't think they have a support e-mail anymore.)

TiVo-Manufactured DVR Technical Support
24 hour automated support: 877-367-8486
Phone number: 877-367-8486
Hours of operation:
Monday - Sunday
8:00 AM - 8:00 PM Pacific​


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

Why in the heck can't they let us revert back to a the version before 8.3? I want the old one back. Seems they don't care about us series3 owners. As far as I am concerned tivo broke my series3 and they need to fix it.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

chipvideo said:


> Why in the heck can't they let us revert back to a the version before 8.3? I want the old one back. Seems they don't care about us series3 owners. As far as I am concerned tivo broke my series3 and they need to fix it.


Me too!  Well...sort of anyway. I suspect that any roll-back would impact the newer services that came w/8.3 and in some cases that would affect agreements they have with third party vendors and all the red tape, yadda, yadda.

If I were a betting person I'd wager that the next update they're working on is focused on MRV and eSATA support...and that this audio/video issue isn't a priority. Or maybe it is and we could have had MRV and eSATA support weeks ago were it not for the fact that they've had to try to recreate what we're seeing out here in the wild and fix that! Who knows. 

Let's keep screaming and keep our fingers crossed that an update is in the near, near future.


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## El-Cid (Jul 5, 2007)

Just made my first call to Tivo. 

I have had the cable company come back and check the line, and since everything is now peachy with the signal (mind you, the cable box never had a problem with pixelization, and it is on the same tv, is also HD, has a DVR, etc. etc!) but the Tivo Pixelization problems continue. 

So I called in just a little bit ago, and they suggested that I take out the cable cards and record a station I have seen the problem on without them. Here is the issue, my problem only comes up on certain digital channels, at different times. 

For instance, for some reason, most of the time I can start watching late night with conan obrien just fine, but by the time the first guest finishes their interview, 95% of the time the pixelization has begun. Cant exactly replicate that on the phone, and without the cable cards, I dont get that channel anyhow. Seems like Tivo wants me to blame the cable cards (motorola, by the way), and live with non-hd basic cable... 

So anyhow, now I have a case number. 

She asked that I change out the cable cards. I have already changed out my cable cards, since I have been reading this thread, but for her sake, I will go ahead and switch them out again. 

If the pixelization continues after that, I will have to lie and say I had the cable cards out and the problem still persisted in order to get a new tivo HD. That wont necessarily make the problem go away, since when it updates to 8.3 the pixelization will most likely come back. 

Oh woe is me.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

El-Cid said:


> So I called in just a little bit ago, and they suggested that I take out the cable cards and record a station I have seen the problem on without them. Here is the issue, my problem only comes up on certain digital channels, at different times.


I would be amazed if you get pixelation on an analog channel. That does'nt make much sense to me. I guess the Tivo could introduce digital artifacts into the program as it is being converted into MPEG format, but that would not really solve your problem as what the Tivo records during digital channel programming is the digital stream directly from the cable.


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## GoldenTiger (Apr 11, 2002)

richsadams said:


> You've probably tried, but if not, try a hard reboot. Unplug TiVo for 15 to 30 seconds (enough time for the drive to spin down, cache to clear, etc.) and plug it back in.
> 
> If you have a composite (YPbPr) cable handy you might want to try it directly between TiVo and your TV instead of HDMI to see if it makes any difference. Make sure you reboot TiVo if/when you switch between HDMI and composite.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I tried that, no dice. Thanks for the contact info, I will call them tomorrow afternoon.


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## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

bsather said:


> I had Charter cable out this week 3 times and four brand new cable cards have been installed in both my S3's. The lines from the street to the house have been checked, as have the interior cables. The pixelization and dropouts are still ocurring on channels 790 - StarzHD and 799 - MHD. Also, I am experiencing problems today on 770 - HDNET. Problems also randomly occur on SD channels 26 - ESPN2 and 43 - HGTV. These problems all seem to have started after the 8.3 update.





bsather said:


> Update: Charter installed a cable card in my TV today, and StarzHD & MHD work fine with zero problems. He did say I was getting "too strong" of a signal coming in and they would have to turn it down.


Charter adjusted the amp coming into my building. Checked the signals and levels again. I have to hand it to the Charter tech, he did a hell of a lot of work basically rewiring everything in the heat & humidity.

Called Tivo support and told them the issue was not with Charter. They said a software update was being worked on to fix the problem.


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

bsather said:


> Called Tivo support and told them the issue was not with Charter. They said a software update was being worked on to fix the problem.


Promises, promises ...


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bsather said:


> Charter adjusted the amp coming into my building. Checked the signals and levels again. I have to hand it to the Charter tech, he did a hell of a lot of work basically rewiring everything in the heat & humidity.
> 
> Called Tivo support and told them the issue was not with Charter. They said a software update was being worked on to fix the problem.


Well...at least they are acknowledging that there is a problem and that they are working on it.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Well...at least they are acknowledging that there is a problem and that they are working on it.


Well... they may be referring to the known issue with TivoHD instead of the S3.... To date Ive seen no admission of an issue with S3.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> Well... they may be referring to the known issue with TivoHD instead of the S3.... To date Ive seen no admission of an issue with S3.


Maybe you missed this post and subsequent discussions?



> I called tivo today, the woman was about to send me a new box and decided to check with a supervisor. i spoke with him, he checked with a series 3 engineering contact, turns out it is now a known issue, it's an issue of macroblocking, a miscommunication between the tivo OS and the cablecard's firmware. It only happens with some cablecards. He said that they hope to have the fix included in the next software update, which he said was happening "soon." When pressed, he couldn't say whether soon meant 3 weeks or 3 months.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Maybe you missed this post and subsequent discussions?


I remember that post but I didnt look back far enough to tie it in with the post I responded to (same poster). My bad.

I must say that I really dont believe much that I hear from CSR's. Ive been working directly with Tivo for quite some time on S3 pixelation and to date have received no acknowldegement from them that an issue even exists let alone that a fix is in progress. I will be very very very happy to be wrong.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

FWIW: I got rid of 95% of my S3 pixelation issues by removing one cable splitter and no longer running the cable through my Panamax surge protector. I did not test if just one of these steps would also have helped. Now that I think of it, I will run the cable back through the surge and see if it will reintroduce pixelation & audio drops.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> I remember that post but I didnt look back far enough to tie it in with the post I responded to (same poster). My bad.
> 
> I must say that I really dont believe much that I hear from CSR's. Ive been working directly with Tivo for quite some time on S3 pixelation and to date have received no acknowldegement from them that an issue even exists let alone that a fix is in progress. I will be very very very happy to be wrong.


 Agreed...the CSR revolving door at most companies leaves little to be relied on. At least TiVo CSR's are trained to be fairly nice by comparison.

I put a little more stock into the post about the S3 issue being a known one since the OP was able to talk to a supervisor/engineer. I think I read another post elsewhere that said something to the same effect. We can only wait and watch now.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mvnuenen said:


> FWIW: I got rid of 95% of my S3 pixelation issues by removing one cable splitter and no longer running the cable through my Panamax surge protector. I did not test if just one of these steps would also have helped. Now that I think of it, I will run the cable back through the surge and see if it will reintroduce pixelation & audio drops.


Good move...both recommended improvements on this thread a while back. Surge protectors and cheap splitters are notorious for lowering signal quality and strength. Glad to hear things are better. :up:


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## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> Well... they may be referring to the known issue with TivoHD instead of the S3.... To date Ive seen no admission of an issue with S3.


I was on the phone quite awhile with the CSR. I was on hold while she talked to an "S3 engineer". I have two with exactly the same problem, in different rooms on different outlets. We spoke at length about the S3's, and she had pulled up my information, so I believe she knew I wasn't referring to a TivoHD.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

richsadams said:


> Good move...both recommended improvements on this thread a while back. Surge protectors and cheap splitters are notorious for lowering signal quality and strength. Glad to hear things are better. :up:


Another FWIW: It never altered Tivo's signal strength rating (before and after the steps it was 97-100 for all channels). Perhaps it was some kind of electrical interference.  I certainly am glad it worked for me. It has not disappeared completely but I can live with the few times it does happen.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mvnuenen said:


> Another FWIW: It never altered Tivo's signal strength rating (before and after the steps it was 97-100 for all channels). Perhaps it was some kind of electrical interference.  I certainly am glad it worked for me. It has not disappeared completely but I can live with the few times it does happen.


 I did a search but couldn't find the post, however there was one that did a good job of explaining the difference between TiVo's signal strength meter and that of the actual incoming cableco signals.

In a nutshell it detailed how TiVos signal strength meter is a bit misleading as it doesn't actually measure signal strength but instead signal to noise (S/N) ratio. A weak signal can still display a high reading on TiVo (when it is good) and not be good enough to process when it drops off which are the moments when youd see audio and/or video disruption.

A true coax signal strength meter such as those used by the cableco techs is the only real way to properly test the incoming signal. (Im told they are very expensive BTW  the meters, not the cableco techs.  )

The bottom line was that just because TiVos signal strength meter shows an acceptable level it doesnt necessarily mean that the channels signal is good. This also addresses why adding a signal amplifier often doesnt help. Garbage in, garbage out. Im sure someone can (and hopefully will) explain it in much better terms, but once I read it, it made perfect sense. I think *SCSIRAID * has a good handle on these things, perhaps he can chime in. 

We see some minor macroblocking now and again, but Ive also used an OTA antenna and noted about the same amount of disruption coming straight from the broadcast towers, so its to be expected I thinknothings prefect.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bsather said:


> I was on the phone quite awhile with the CSR. I was on hold while she talked to an "S3 engineer". I have two with exactly the same problem, in different rooms on different outlets. We spoke at length about the S3's, and she had pulled up my information, so I believe she knew I wasn't referring to a TivoHD.


I'm just glad TiVo finally "gets it" and those that have been complaining about it since the 8.3 upgrade arent crazy!

As the problem seems to be a good deal worse on the new TiVo HD I'm betting they're putting a majority of their resources into rectifing that right now. After reading umpteen threads scattered about it looks like its boiling down to a cable card/software processing issue (particularly with SA cable cards). Hopefully what they learn there will translate to a fix for the people w/S3's that are having trouble as well.

C'mon update!


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

Call me crazy, but after messing around with my entertainment center (meaning: unplugging, moving around, and reinstalling the components) it seems that in particular audio drop outs has gotten worse. I start to suspect the Toslink cables -and possibly the receiver- might actually have something to do with it... Any thoughts?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mvnuenen said:


> Call me crazy, but after messing around with my entertainment center (meaning: unplugging, moving around, and reinstalling the components) it seems that in particular audio drop outs has gotten worse. I start to suspect the Toslink cables -and possibly the receiver- might actually have something to do with it... Any thoughts?


If youre only experiencing audio drop outs and not pixelization or macroblocking it sounds like a simple audio connection problem and nothing to do with the 8.3 software issue.

Cables of all sorts; Toslink/optical cables in particular are very sensitive to connections. The fiber optic cables are somewhat fragile and generally can't be "bent" like copper wire; one serious kink can destroy the signal. Some Toslink cables are better than others as well. Some use a single plastic fiber and others use a multi-strand combination or even quartz glass fibers.

Id try a regular analog (RCA L/R) audio connection to see if the audio drop-outs clear up. If so, it might be time to look at replacing the Toslink cable(s).


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## nmurphy (Nov 3, 2003)

Has anyone experienced total audio loss (except for tivo beeps) since the upgrade? Or is the problem limited to drop-out?

A week ago, i started to get no audio at all from recorded or live programs, although the audio is there once I do a re-boot. It is now happening everyday.

Just wondering if the upgrade could also have caused this problem.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

nmurphy said:


> Has anyone experienced total audio loss (except for tivo beeps) since the upgrade? Or is the problem limited to drop-out?
> 
> A week ago, i started to get no audio at all from recorded or live programs, although the audio is there once I do a re-boot. It is now happening everyday.
> 
> Just wondering if the upgrade could also have caused this problem.


It's unlikely that the firmware upgrade - completed back in June - caused your problem. This sounds more like a hard drive issue...particularly if it's happening every day.

You could try running TiVo's version of "check disk", Kickstart 57, to see if it will clear things up.

*Kickstart 57:*

1. Unplug TiVo and wait 15 seconds.
2. Plug TiVo in, get the TiVo remote and aim it at TiVo.
3. Press and hold the pause button until the orange light comes back on by itself.
4. Release the pause button and immediately type in the numbers 5 and 7 on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
5. TiVo will reboot and the GSOD screen will come on saying TiVo has encountered a serious error. It will then run the disk management tool which can take from 10 minutes to 3 hours to complete. During this time it will look for and correct configuration problems as well as isolating any bad sectors on the hard drive so they can no longer be used.
6. TiVo will automatically reboot again and hopefully things will return to normal. (Programs that used any bad sectors may be lost.)

Otherwise a call to TiVo to see about a replacement may be in order.


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## justinmm2 (Aug 1, 2002)

I am a new FIOS customer in the DC area (had Cox before with a single CableCard before, no problems) like rww, but when I got hooked up this weekend, I noticed immediate problems with what I thought at first were all HD channels. Turns out it is just the 801-809 channels he mentioned, which are basically the local networks, PBS, and an extra or three. It's basically constant blocking - the channels are all unwatchable. Other HD channels are fine. SD channels are fine. I know it's not a "signal meter", but I get >80 on those channels, with the exception that every few seconds t he signal gets "dropped" and then re"acquired".

Has there been any news? I'm on an S3 with 8.3. Very frustrating.

Should I even bother calling Tivo?

Justin


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

justinmm2 said:


> I am a new FIOS customer in the DC area (had Cox before with a single CableCard before, no problems) like rww, but when I got hooked up this weekend, I noticed immediate problems with what I thought at first were all HD channels. Turns out it is just the 801-809 channels he mentioned, which are basically the local networks, PBS, and an extra or three. It's basically constant blocking - the channels are all unwatchable. Other HD channels are fine. SD channels are fine. I know it's not a "signal meter", but I get >80 on those channels, with the exception that every few seconds t he signal gets "dropped" and then re"acquired".
> 
> Has there been any news? I'm on an S3 with 8.3. Very frustrating.
> 
> ...


IMO I'd be calling Verizon. There are a number of posts here and elsewhere saying basically the same thing about Verizon FIOS service and eventually Verizon resolved it. If it were a TiVo problem you probably would have seen it before and it wouldn't be limited to one set of channels in a limited frequency.

We can't get FIOS (yet)...still suffering w/Comcast.  According to others on FIOS you'll be quite happy with it (once they get things ironed out of course). :up:


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## F4Boy (Dec 10, 2002)

I moved to Fios almost two weeks ago with an S3 that was working fine on every station with 8.1.x. This Saturday, I noticed terrible audio dropouts on the music stations. (I leave it on for the dog. He likes classic rock. 612) When I got back from riding, the sound was all screwed up and was happening on all the music channels. I tivo'd Big Bro 8 on my SD local channel (2) last night and it was all pixelated/blocking/audio drops. 802 is fine. I checked out all the channels and my problem is isolted to my music channels and SD locals. All the HD channels are perfect as are the movie channels 340-4xx, 50-99, 150-2xx, etc. I'm bummed. My Verizon DVR and other set top box are fine. I restared with no improvement. Next step will be a guided setup, but it seems that 8.3.x is the problem for me as I see many are having a problem with the newer software. 8.3 was fine for about a week, then all of a sudden, problems.

Seems more of a Tivo issue than V* issue for their equipment is working fine.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

F4Boy said:


> I moved to Fios almost two weeks ago with an S3 that was working fine on every station with 8.1.x. This Saturday, I noticed terrible audio dropouts on the music stations. (I leave it on for the dog. He likes classic rock. 612) When I got back from riding, the sound was all screwed up and was happening on all the music channels. I tivo'd Big Bro 8 on my SD local channel (2) last night and it was all pixelated/blocking/audio drops. 802 is fine. I checked out all the channels and my problem is isolted to my music channels and SD locals. All the HD channels are perfect as are the movie channels 340-4xx, 50-99, 150-2xx, etc. I'm bummed. My Verizon DVR and other set top box are fine. I restared with no improvement. Next step will be a guided setup, but it seems that 8.3.x is the problem for me as I see many are having a problem with the newer software. 8.3 was fine for about a week, then all of a sudden, problems.
> 
> Seems more of a Tivo issue than V* issue for there equipment is working fine.


Did you just purchase your S3? They are shipping with v8.1x and upgrade to v8.3.1 within a few days. If not you would have had v8.3.1 for several months now.

STB's supplied by cablecos aren't a good measurement against TiVo as their processors are not the same. Most cableco STB's are designed with proprietary cableco specs whereas TiVo's have to work with numerous offerings.

Still...not a good situation. Keep us posted!


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## F4Boy (Dec 10, 2002)

richsadams said:


> Did you just purchase your S3? They are shipping with v8.1x and upgrade to v8.3.1 within a few days. If not you would have had v8.3.1 for several months now.
> 
> Still...not a good situation. Keep us posted!


Yes, I just got it. Was installed a week and a half ago, 8/29. As you said, it came with 8.1 and within three days, I got the update to 8.3. Was fine for about a week, perfect. It seems when I tune to one of my problem stations, it's fine for a few seconds, maybe 2-4 seconds, then unwatchable.


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## jbrennan (Jan 20, 2005)

Exact same problems here. Today Verizon (NJ) was out and replaced every last bit of their equipment, including the network interface, cables, splitters and cable cards. Didn't help. They tested the signal and it is clean, even hot. They put an attenuator on the line. No difference. BBCA is the worst channel; it is unwatchable. Clear for 30-60 seconds, and then extreme macroblocking and audio dropouts. Minor issues on TVLand, Spike, Food Network, WE and a few others. The tech did a test of individual channel signals and that one came through just as clean as the rest. I had him put a card in my tv and split off a third line bypassing the S3. No macroblocking on any channel.


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## Gerhard (Sep 29, 2002)

I bought my S3 when it first came out... literally within days... so I've got an original.

I've had both Comcast and Verizon FIOS, and FIOS has been pretty decent on the whole.

I've noticed, in general terms, when I first got FIOS there was pixelization. (Pixelization in this case is defined as the MPEG encoding not updating itself fast enough that the user visably see blocking on the screen as the picture shifts.)

After awhile I didn't notice the HD content doing this anymore... and then I got the 8.3 series firmware.

Ever since I've had blocking / pixelization, but recently, I've started to have Audio dropouts. Which we've never had before...

FIOS comes with an ONT that generates good dB level output at the house... so that's not the issue. Also, we are not seeing signal dropout, so that's not the issue. ...and the few time the Tivo was indicating a 80dB > 0 db flux, the set top boxes were perfectly fine.

There is an issue with the S3...


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

Gerhard said:


> I bought my S3 when it first came out... literally within days... so I've got an original.
> 
> I've had both Comcast and Verizon FIOS, and FIOS has been pretty decent on the whole.
> 
> ...


8.3 has caused many of us to have problems that we did not have with 8.1. I keep expecting Tivo will fix this, but it must be a significant problem for it to be taking this long.


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## Jeshimon (Jul 9, 2007)

fred2 said:


> moyekj
> 
> That is an ideal suggestion. I know that with my mp3 player, being able to rollback to an earlier firmware was able to pin point that the "upgraded" firmware was the problem.
> 
> Too bad rolling back on the TiVo is not as easy as pointing to a webpage and grabbing something.


+1
Roll backs would be VERY useful.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Apparently TiVo has begun pushing out a new software update for S3's, v9.1.L5. It's touting "Advanced WishList Features". More here.

It will be interesting to hear if there are improvements for those experiencing macroblocking and other issues.

Our S3 was buggy for about three weeks after v8.3.1 was released, but everything cleared up and has been fine ever since. Let's hope this takes care of everyone else! :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

According to this post  the latest software upgrade, v9.1x, may have addressed the macroblocking issue that some S3 owners experienced with v8.3x.

If you were having macroblocking (or other) issues with v8.3x, can you please post any changes you're seeing when you receive v9.1x? Thanks! :up:


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## pfibiger (Apr 24, 2007)

I am waiting as patiently as I can for the 9.1 update. If it fixes my macroblocking problems, I'll be sure to post. I really wish Tivo had stuck those of us who'd called to complain at the top of this rollout list, instead of randomly rolling out to people who don't have SA cablecards and the related issues.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

pfibiger said:


> I am waiting as patiently as I can for the 9.1 update. If it fixes my macroblocking problems, I'll be sure to post. I really wish Tivo had stuck those of us who'd called to complain at the top of this rollout list, instead of randomly rolling out to people who don't have SA cablecards and the related issues.


Thanks for keeping us updated. When the upgrade rollout begins for everyone you should be able to sign up for a priority download here:

TiVo Priority Download web page. (Note: the page won't be active until the regular upgrade rollout begins.)

Hang in there and thanks for keeping us posted! :up:


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## pfibiger (Apr 24, 2007)

Following up on this (can't figure out which 9.1 thread would be appropriate, and it seems like it makes the most sense here), 9.1 has helped, but has not fixed my pixellation problems. It seems like the macroblocking is less severe, and instead of knocking out sound and pixellating video for 2 seconds, it happens for half a second. Less frustrating, certainly, but it absolutely still happens.

I'll call Tivo and let them know I'm still seeing this, but I imagine they think it's fixed.


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## l_emmerdeur (Jun 13, 2005)

I've experienced some minor macroblocking issues and pretty consistent audio drops. I had about 4 incidents when playing back the latest episode of Dexter (each lasted about 3 seconds) but had a perfect playback of the latest Brotherhood (no macroblocking or audio dropouts). This is the same channel (Showtime), the same evening, back-to-back shows.

Some channels are worse than others. FX, a non-HD channel, has the worst macroblocking and audio dropouts, sometimes even pauses in the video stream. I suspect TWC isn't playing nice with the cablecards. Why should they?


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## smileLP (Mar 26, 2003)

the new software did not fix the problem. i'm tempted to say it made it BETTER, but now instead of "stuttering," it's doing some weird thing where it stops/mini-pixillates for a split second, then fast forwards to about 2 or 3 secs. ahead, and you miss what went on in between

overall it's prob. better, but don't we deserve, didn'tw e expect a real, complete fix? (feel free to treat that question rhetorically)


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## madoverlord (Jun 29, 2004)

Its not made anything better, it's simply papering over the problem. What the Tivo is now apparently doing is taking the bad video segments and "fast forwarding" through them to make them appear shorter.


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## smileLP (Mar 26, 2003)

this is no fix; the problem is still glaringly obvious


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

hddude55 said:


> It seems that many of us are convinced that 8.3 is somehow causing sustained pixelation and audio drops in machines that previously worked great or at least had very sporadic problems pre-8.3. I reported this to TiVo two weeks ago and the techs didn't even seem to know pixelation/audio drops were a frequent issue, so you can imagine I didn't get much help. Instead, they sent a new Series3 my way. It is working great but is still on 8.1 and I fear what will happen when 8.3 is rolled out to it.
> 
> I know many others have already posted this issue in other threads, and it seemed like it was time to give the issue a separate discussion forum. Hopefully, TiVoPony will chime in at some point.


You'd of thunk that by now they woulda figured the problems out...


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

smileLP said:


> the new software did not fix the problem. i'm tempted to say it made it BETTER, but now instead of "stuttering," it's doing some weird thing where it stops/mini-pixillates for a split second, then fast forwards to about 2 or 3 secs. ahead, and you miss what went on in between
> 
> overall it's prob. better, but don't we deserve, didn'tw e expect a real, complete fix? (feel free to treat that question rhetorically)


Phew...I thought I was the only one seeing this new behavior. Its like the video and the audio get out of sync and the video speeds up to sync back up with the audio.

I would agree, its not as annoying as before but it shouldn't happen at all...


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## smileLP (Mar 26, 2003)

>>I would agree, its not as annoying as before but it shouldn't happen at all...<<

overall not as annoying, but i watched an entire star trek episode, and then missed a climactic last line, as it "FF'd" throug 3-4 secs. of show. i knew the line by heart and it sucked that i didn't get to hear it


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## smileLP (Mar 26, 2003)

tivo is putting through some software changes, as we've all noticed. don't know if they are trying to sneak in fixes for the pixillation prob. or not, but mine has gotten a LOT worse over the past 2 wks or so. many shows have this insane "fast forward" thing going on where you have 10 secs of show in 1-2 secs and you miss out big chunks and it happens more than ever! if they're experimenting w/new fixes, they haven't gotten it yet! others noticing similar?


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## l_emmerdeur (Jun 13, 2005)

l_emmerdeur said:


> I've experienced some minor macroblocking issues and pretty consistent audio drops. I had about 4 incidents when playing back the latest episode of Dexter (each lasted about 3 seconds) but had a perfect playback of the latest Brotherhood (no macroblocking or audio dropouts). This is the same channel (Showtime), the same evening, back-to-back shows.
> 
> Some channels are worse than others. FX, a non-HD channel, has the worst macroblocking and audio dropouts, sometimes even pauses in the video stream. I suspect TWC isn't playing nice with the cablecards. Why should they?


Update: I removed the external hard drive I had installed when the hack was first revealed, as I did not need it any more. Since then, almost all of my problems have disappeared. I get very infrequent (once or twice per recording) macroblocking, but it is less disruptive, as it does not flicker the whole screen and does not cause any audio drop-out.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

l_emmerdeur said:


> Update: I removed the external hard drive I had installed when the hack was first revealed, as I did not need it any more. Since then, almost all of my problems have disappeared. I get very infrequent (once or twice per recording) macroblocking, but it is less disruptive, as it does not flicker the whole screen and does not cause any audio drop-out.


Thanks for the update...and very insteresting findings. The macroblocking you're seeing now would seem to be natural and expected from normal broadcast interruptions.

Can you give us a few details?

- Brand/size of eSATA drive, enclosure, cable, etc. that you were using.
- Current TiVo software version.
- Setup, i.e. cable, OTA, etc. and any modifications (splitters, amps).
- Cable company/region.
- Brand of cable cards (if known).

Your info could help others track down their issues going forward.

Thanks again! :up:


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## l_emmerdeur (Jun 13, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the update...and very insteresting findings. The macroblocking you're seeing now would seem to be natural and expected from normal broadcast interruptions.
> 
> Can you give us a few details?
> 
> ...


eSata drive: I ripped the hard drive out of a Seagate Freeagent Pro 750Gb and put it into an Antec MX-1 enclosure to improve cooling. Cable is an SIIG Model CB-SA0111-S1.

The Tivo was running on the previous versions (9.1, 9.2 I believe), as I removed the drive about a week before the latest update came in.

TWC NYC Southern Manhattan cable with 2 cablecards, one splitter to one cable modem. This is the only device getting cable, and there are no unused splitter ports or wall ports.

I think the cablecards are Hitachi (not sure where I remember this) - will the cablecard screen show this info?

Next step: I will re-attach the drive and see if the 9.3 software made a difference. Also, another possible source of error is that the "official" eSata drive support came out, but I did not detach/re-attach the drive. Perhaps it didn't like that I had attached it using the original hack. Re-attaching now with 9.3 using the official functionality should disqualify those as sources of the macroblocking.

For the record, the current level of macroblocking is not even worth mentioning, it is so minor. Totally acceptable. Furthermore, the nature of the behavior is different. Previously, the pixelation that charcterized the behavior would kick in about half-way down the screen, about halfway between the right edge and the center. Following about a second of white pixelation, the video would stutter or freeze and the audio would cut out for 3-5 seconds.

The current macroblocking is a thin stripe of pixels along the bottom of the screen, usually 2-3 seconds, or a single large pixel near the lower-right corner that flashes once to as many as a dozen times over the course of 10-20 seconds. No stuttering, no audio loss, the content is perfectly viewable and the behavior is, as stated, barely worth mentioning.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

l_emmerdeur said:


> eSata drive: I ripped the hard drive out of a Seagate Freeagent Pro 750Gb and put it into an Antec MX-1 enclosure to improve cooling. Cable is an SIIG Model CB-SA0111-S1.
> 
> The Tivo was running on the previous versions (9.1, 9.2 I believe), as I removed the drive about a week before the latest update came in.
> 
> ...


All good info, thanks! :up:

FWIW, the latest software is v9.2.j. AFAIK you have to look at the cable cards themselves to find the brand.

If you marry up your eSATA drive via P&P it will be very interesting to note if the macroblocking comes back. We see a little now and then, but it's never the same and usually happens during a very fast moving scene...just some pixels that freeze up for a split second here or there. Since v9.2.j was installed things are much better and we no longer experience the audio dropouts we had w/v9.1.

Thanks again! :up:


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## ml_nelson (Jan 12, 2008)

matt8268 said:


> My problem APPEARS to be fixed. Since installing the VSMA-601C line amp, I have not had a single glitch on any newly recorded program, and it's been about a month now. It will be months before I can confidently say the problem is totally gone, I'm not recording as much stuff now that we're in summer rerun season, but so far the evidence is very encouraging. By the way, I never measured any signals or called any cable tech support...I just installed the amp. (Added a 1 foot coax from the wall to the amp, and then used existing coax from the amp to the Tivo...also a third coax goes into the amp and plugs into an AC outlet).


I've been having a consistent problem with a couple of HD channel where I get long strings of pixelated video & no sound. I get as much as 10 minutes in a 60 minute show.

In spite of the fact that the signal level shown on the problem channels is near full-scale (without an amp in place), I decided to try the in-line amp solution. I found a VIEWSONIC VSA-601C on eBay, $15 shipped.

I's now been in place for about 6 weeks & it definitely fixed the problem. I had just one 10 second eposide of the problem in the 6 weeks.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ml_nelson said:


> In spite of the fact that the signal level shown on the problem channels is near full-scale (without an amp in place), I decided to try the in-line amp solution. I found a VIEWSONIC VSA-601C on eBay, $15 shipped.
> 
> I's now been in place for about 6 weeks & it definitely fixed the problem. I had just one 10 second eposide of the problem in the 6 weeks.


That's really interesting as that was the recommended "cure" on this AVS Forum thread to correct problems with Comcast cable cards...back in 2005! Hmmm.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

ml_nelson said:


> I've been having a consistent problem with a couple of HD channel where I get long strings of pixelated video & no sound. I get as much as 10 minutes in a 60 minute show.
> 
> In spite of the fact that the signal level shown on the problem channels is near full-scale (without an amp in place), I decided to try the in-line amp solution. I found a VIEWSONIC VSA-601C on eBay, $15 shipped.
> 
> I's now been in place for about 6 weeks & it definitely fixed the problem. I had just one 10 second eposide of the problem in the 6 weeks.


Amps are often a double edged sword. Cable companies rarely use them as they are almost never necessary and can often overboost the signal causing potential problems themselves. It may have fixed the problem by providing a ground. Does your system (the op) have a ground block outside where the cable comes in? If not, install one and remove the Amp and I bet your problems remain solved. Beware of Amps and Ground loop isolators... I know this from personal experience.


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## ml_nelson (Jan 12, 2008)

bareyb said:


> Amps are often a double edged sword. Cable companies rarely use them as they are almost never necessary and can often overboost the signal causing potential problems themselves. It may have fixed the problem by providing a ground. Does your system (the op) have a ground block outside where the cable comes in? If not, install one and remove the Amp and I bet your problems remain solved. Beware of Amps and Ground loop isolators... I know this from personal experience.


The amp is powered by a "wall wart" which has only a 2 pronged plug. There is no ground connection to the amp.

Mike


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## ml_nelson (Jan 12, 2008)

ml_nelson said:


> I've been having a consistent problem with a couple of HD channel where I get long strings of pixelated video & no sound. I get as much as 10 minutes in a 60 minute show.
> 
> In spite of the fact that the signal level shown on the problem channels is near full-scale (without an amp in place), I decided to try the in-line amp solution. I found a VIEWSONIC VSA-601C on eBay, $15 shipped.
> 
> I's now been in place for about 6 weeks & it definitely fixed the problem. I had just one 10 second eposide of the problem in the 6 weeks.


There is a user on here (matt8268) that swore that pixelation would always be fixed by the addition of an in-line-amp. I decided to give it a try as there were some channels that I would ALWAYS get about 10 minutes of lost program due to pixelation.

Pixelation stopped the day I put it in. It's been over a year now without problems. I don't have a good explanation as to the interaction between tuner & amp, but in my case it absolutely fixed the issue.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

ml_nelson said:


> There is a user on here (matt8268) that swore that pixelation would always be fixed by the addition of an in-line-amp. I decided to give it a try as there were some channels that I would ALWAYS get about 10 minutes of lost program due to pixelation.
> 
> Pixelation stopped the day I put it in. It's been over a year now without problems. I don't have a good explanation as to the interaction between tuner & amp, but in my case it absolutely fixed the issue.


That's great news for you. Have you tried removing the amp to verify that the pixelation problem comes back without it?


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## ml_nelson (Jan 12, 2008)

bareyb said:


> That's great news for you. Have you tried removing the amp to verify that the pixelation problem comes back without it?


No. Frankly I didn't see the need. I've had the problem virtually every day for months. It stopped the same evening I put it in & has not been seen since. It's pretty clearly correlated with installation of the amp.

Mike


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

ml_nelson said:


> No. Frankly I didn't see the need. I've had the problem virtually every day for months. It stopped the same evening I put it in & has not been seen since. It's pretty clearly correlated with installation of the amp.
> 
> Mike


Unless you verify that the problem comes back when you remove the Amp then unfortunately, this proves nothing. It could very well be a coincidence. I owned a cable business for years and you'd be surprised at the number of "voo-doo" fixes I saw that nobody could explain. I'm not saying the Amp DIDN'T fix your problem, but unless you can verify it was the Amp that did the fixing, there's no proof the Amp did anything at all. It could very well be you moved a particular connector just right and increased the signal level. Perhaps Comcast did something right around that time that fixed your problem. It could be any number of things. This would be the first case I've seen where an Amp did anything useful at all. I often solved problems by taking them OUT. I never once solved a problem by putting one IN. I actually kind of hated the darn things. They really shouldn't ever be needed. If your signal is that low the cable company should do something from the pole.

I hope it did fix _your_ problem, but I'd hate to see people install one of those damn things in their cable system thinking it might improve things for them too. Often times Amps do more harm than good by over driving the signal to such a degree the VIT can't deal with the overload. In the case of TiVo this could actually cause pixellation to _increase_. There are any number of posts on here about people solving reception problems by removing such things as Amps, Filters, and Ground Loop Isolators. So I guess I'm just saying to folks to proceed with caution. It may have fixed your problem but it could very well become a trouble shooting issue down line for somebody else.


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