# Series 3 freezing and reboots



## jon96cobra (May 24, 2006)

I have been having one of my series 3 Tivo freeze and start working for a few minutes but the reboot. I'm trying to figure out if it was an update or its just starting to need a replacement hard drive. Anyone have any insite on this?

Sent from Galaxy S4


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

jon96cobra said:


> I have been having one of my series 3 Tivo freeze and start working for a few minutes but the reboot. I'm trying to figure out if it was an update or its just starting to need a replacement hard drive. Anyone have any insite on this?
> 
> Sent from Galaxy S4


It's older than a Series 4 and newer than a Series 1, so that means it could be the hard drive OR the power supply, or if you're really lucky, both. 

Seriously, the thing to do is check the power supply DC outs with a voltmeter and hook the hard drive (especially if it's the original one they put in at the factory) to a PC, boot with a cd with the drive maker's diagnostic software on it, and run the long test.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> It's older than a Series 4 and newer than a Series 1, so that means it could be the hard drive OR the power supply, or if you're really lucky, both.
> 
> Seriously, the thing to do is check the power supply DC outs with a voltmeter and hook the hard drive (especially if it's the original one they put in at the factory) to a PC, boot with a cd with the drive maker's diagnostic software on it, and run the long test.


I don't have a Voltmeter and I don't have the original hard drive from this Tivo series 3 b/c I won it off of eBay. Didn't even have it for a year and it's already in the 'caput' stage.

I have a Seagate Barracuda SATA III Drive. How can I tell if the hard drive is bad or if my power supply is bad. I didn't see any 'bulging capacitors' b/c I have no clue what a bulging capacitor looks like.

I went to Weaknees and they want to charge $100 just to diagnose the problem-which I already know could result in 2 things: bad hard drive or bad power supply. They want to charge extra to replace the hard drive or any other parts that need to be replaced.
I think I can do this on my own for less. Maybe.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

What a bulging cap looks like:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8750894#post8750894

Post the model number of your Tivo -- there are three different Series 3 models and they use different PSU's.


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## jon96cobra (May 24, 2006)

Going to open it tonight and have a look. I will follow up with my results.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

D_vadout said:


> I don't have a Voltmeter and I don't have the original hard drive from this Tivo series 3 b/c I won it off of eBay. Didn't even have it for a year and it's already in the 'caput' stage.


It was just a matter of time before the low quality capacitors in the power supply fail. HDDs also fail but should last at least a few years.



D_vadout said:


> I have a Seagate Barracuda SATA III Drive. How can I tell if the hard drive is bad or if my power supply is bad. I didn't see any 'bulging capacitors' b/c I have no clue what a bulging capacitor looks like.


Capacitors can also fail without leaking. The best way to eliminate failing capacitors as the culprit is to replace them. If they're not the culprit today they will fail sooner or later.

HDDs can be removed and connected to a PC where the manufacturer's diagnostic program can be run. I did have an eBay Tivo where the HDD passed all the tests though and only worked after I downloaded a new image, put it on a new drive, and did a clear and delete.

The power supply probably requires more parts and tools than connecting the HDD to a PC and testing it so I would try that first. Then try a different HDD with a fresh image. If that doesn't work then replace the power supply capacitors.



D_vadout said:


> I think I can do this on my own for less. Maybe.


Very likely.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

As long as you're going to open up the unit and have the drive out long enough to run the manufacturer's long test, you might as well be soldering in replacement caps on the power supply board instead of having to do it in a few months.

If you have the original S3, the TCD648250, with or without a b on the end, the one with the clock display, then you don't need to open it to know the model of the power supply.

If you have an HD (TCD652160) or HD XL (TCD658000), there are two possibilities for which model power supply, so you have to lift the lid to know which one so that you know which set of caps to order.

Check the last 10 pages or so of this thread to find cap lists for the various S3 models:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473394


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

dlfl said:


> What a bulging cap looks like:
> 
> Post the model number of your Tivo -- there are three different Series 3 models and they use different PSU's.


Yep. I didn't see it before but now I do. I have a slightly bulging C701, C401-there's 2. The second which I can't see the number is bulging and it looks like it leaked. It didn't look like that before which is why I had a hard time trying to figure out what I was at.

I have the Tivo 648250B model.

The hard drive is Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500 GB. I see something that says STX-720012 (B). I don't know if that means anything.

Since I now know it's not the hard drive and that I'm new to this forum, I copied the capacitor replacements but didn't see where to purchase them. Also the capacitors that are bulging have this white caulk? around it. Don't know how to get that loose. 
My brother-in-law has a soldering iron. Maybe I can get him to help me if I can replace those capacitors. Also is there a certain type? Replacing the ones I have doesn't seem to do well if they're constantly needing to be replaced.

Oh, a few more questions: Does the power supply need to be taken out in order to replace the capacitors? Is there any videos on how to replace these?

Each time I do a forum search it tells me I don't have enough in the search engine therefore it can't find what I'm looking for.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Yep. I didn't see it before but now I do. I have a slightly bulging C701, C401-there's 2. The second which I can't see the number is bulging and it looks like it leaked. It didn't look like that before which is why I had a hard time trying to figure out what I was at.
> 
> I have the Tivo 648250B model.
> 
> ...


The white stuff is just a bit of glue that peels away easily. Yes, you need to take the power supply out because you need to get to the backside of the board to do the soldering.

You can get the caps at Mouser. See this project for a list you can just add to your shopping cart:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager...sID=1a42eea4c1

Replace them all while you are in there.

-- Doug


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

DougJohnson said:


> The white stuff is just a bit of glue that peels away easily. Yes, you need to take the power supply out because you need to get to the backside of the board to do the soldering.
> 
> You can get the caps at Mouser. See this project for a list you can just add to your shopping cart:
> 
> ...


I still have no idea what I need.

From the previous threads you directed me to-only made it to page 3, scrolling too much triggers my Cervical Vertigo-I saw that a poster purchased 2200uf 10v Rubycon Radial Electrolytic Capacitors & 2200UF 6.3V RUBYCON RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS.10X20MM.

From Mouser's website, one of these is out of stock so I went to eBay. They have both and from the quantity I wanted eBay's $2 less than Mouser.

If this is what I need to replace the 3 bulging capacitors that I have then I will get those. 
I see C401 but can't see the number next to that one. I don't know if both of these are C401's or is it C401 & C402. C402 is the one that looks like it leaked and C701 & C401 are bulging.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> I still have no idea what I need.
> 
> From the previous threads you directed me to-only made it to page 3, scrolling too much triggers my Cervical Vertigo-I saw that a poster purchased 2200uf 10v Rubycon Radial Electrolytic Capacitors & 2200UF 6.3V RUBYCON RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS.10X20MM.
> 
> ...


Sorry, the link was bad. This one should be better.
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=1a42eea4c1

www.digikey.com is another source.

And you really ought to replace all of them unless you just like taking TiVos apart.

-- Doug


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> I still have no idea what I need.
> 
> From the previous threads you directed me to-only made it to page 3, scrolling too much triggers my Cervical Vertigo-I saw that a poster purchased 2200uf 10v Rubycon Radial Electrolytic Capacitors & 2200UF 6.3V RUBYCON RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS.10X20MM.
> 
> ...


Once you unsolder and remove the caps that need replacing (work methodically, removing and replacing one at a time, keep notes), you'll be able to see the numbers like C401 silkscreened on the circuit board next to a silkscreened circle that shows where it mounts, and only one of them will be labeled C401 or C any other specific number, although you may have a C401 and a C402 that are both the same uF value and rated at the same Voltage (sometimes labeled V and sometimes, mostly on older capacitors, labeled WV, for Working Voltage).

Basically you should replace all of the electrolytic capacitors on the power supply circuit board except for the little bitty ones and the great big one.

Here is HerronScott's list of the ones that need to be replaced on a TCD648250 power supply, along with the part numbers if you want to order them from Digi-Key.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9131293#post9131293

What you want are radial (both leads sticking out the bottom) electrolytic capacitors of the type known as low Equivalent Series Resistance, or low ESR, rated for 105 degrees Celsius/Centigrade (rather than the 85 degree rating of general purpose electrolytics).

They have to have the same rating in microFarads (uF) as the one they replace and the Voltage rating should never be lower, ideally the same, but if you have to vary that in order to get something rather than nothing, you can go the next step higher, like a 16V for a 10V, a 25V for a 16, or a 35 for a 25. Of the 4 parameters (low ESR, temp, uF, and V), that's the only one on which you have any wiggle room, and then only in the up direction.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

Good lord,you guys are talking to me like I know what I'm doing-which surprisingly I don't, lol.

I don't know what to look for, I don't know how to solder, and I don't know if I have enough funds to replace 'all' of those capacitors.

I'm not looking to take this apart seeing that I won it off of eBay sometime at the end of 2013. I believe I had this thing for about 1.5 months before it went caput. Unfortunately I shelled out a lot to get it so yeah, not taking it apart. I'm good at that though.

Thanks for the websites. I'll look more into them when I get off of work.

You guys are awesome btw! And truly sorry for making you all re-hash all of this stuff that's somewhere here on this forum.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

We're talking maybe $20 worth of parts here, including shipping. If your brother-in-law can solder, he probably will be able to interpret the instructions and parts lists.

Yes the power supply board must be removed from the TiVo to replace caps.

Unfortunately how much you paid, or how recent it was, have little bearing on whether you have bad caps. But if you replace them with good caps (low ESR, 105C rated, from Mouser or DigiKey) you should be good for many years.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Unfortunately I shelled out a lot to get it so yeah, not taking it apart.


Right now, you've got an expensive brick. The worst that happens if you take it apart is you have an expensive brick. The best that happens is you have an working TiVo. -- Doug


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

The other option I have seen mentioned is to buy the parts and see if you can find a local small shop that would do the soldering for a reasonable price.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

dlfl said:


> We're talking maybe $20 worth of parts here, including shipping. If your brother-in-law can solder, he probably will be able to interpret the instructions and parts lists.
> 
> Yes the power supply board must be removed from the TiVo to replace caps.
> 
> Unfortunately how much you paid, or how recent it was, have little bearing on whether you have bad caps. But if you replace them with good caps (low ESR, 105C rated, from Mouser or DigiKey) you should be good for many years.


Sounds good to me. I just wish I was really savvy at this. I should be by the time I'm done.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

DougJohnson said:


> Right now, you've got an expensive brick. The worst that happens if you take it apart is you have an expensive brick. The best that happens is you have an working TiVo. -- Doug


Tell me about it.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

WO312 said:


> The other option I have seen mentioned is to buy the parts and see if you can find a local small shop that would do the soldering for a reasonable price.


I can try that. Can't do anything worse.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> I can try that. Can't do anything worse.


Ask your BIL if he knows the difference between a soldering iron and a soldering gun. If he does, he probably knows enough to do the fairly simple job of replacing the caps that need replacing.

Just make sure he uses rosin core solder (tin and lead alloy only, no silver or other metals) instead of acid core solder like plumbers use.

Prices may have gone up a little since HerronScott posted that list I linked to, but since he got out for under $15, including tax and shipping, it still shouldn't be more than $20.

You'll need a #10 Torx bit to undo the screws holding the power supply circuit board to the chassis, except for the one easy to overlook one that goes in from the outside just above where the power cord plugs in, and for that you'll need a #8 or #9 Torx bit. If he doesn't have any Torx bits or drivers, but there's a Home Depot in your area, then get one of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-IN-1-Torx-Screwdriver-Set-74502/100087664

It has all the Torx bits you'll ever need for your TiVo.

Make sure your BIL reads all of this thread and that he knows to observe polarity when putting in the new caps (there's a reason one side of them is marked with a + or -, and why the circuit board is silkscreened to indicate which hole is for the negative lead).


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> Ask your BIL if he knows the difference between a soldering iron and a soldering gun. If he does, he probably knows enough to do the fairly simple job of replacing the caps that need replacing.
> 
> Just make sure he uses rosin core solder (tin and lead alloy only, no silver or other metals) instead of acid core solder like plumbers use.
> 
> ...


I have a tool kit that has the bits I need for taking out what I need. 
I know what you're thinking: what gal has a tool kit?
I'm familiar with wood work, not electricity so I just need to know the type of soldering iron you mentioned look like and the type of materials to get.

I ended up getting those capacitors from the link I was given but I got it from a TV repair supplier off of eBay. I purchased a total of 23 capacitors that cost me $17.41 with no taxes and free S&H. Some of these were cheaper on digikey but the taxes and S&H would've been more so I hope I got a good deal.

I most definitely will have to show my brother in law the kind of soldering iron you mentioned b/c saying what you mentioned will come out in Japanese form.

A member by the name of Squint PM'd me and I can't answer their PM b/c I'm still a newbie.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> I have a tool kit that has the bits I need for taking out what I need.
> I know what you're thinking: what gal has a tool kit?
> I'm familiar with wood work, not electricity so I just need to know the type of soldering iron you mentioned look like and the type of materials to get.
> 
> ...


When I answer questions here, a lot of the time the answer is aimed at future searchers as well.

If your BIL has a soldering iron (often referred to as a pencil soldering iron because of the way it's held) rated to draw 30 Watts or more, that'll probably do the job.

A soldering gun, which is a type of soldering iron with a pistol style grip and a trigger-type switch, is likely to be rated at 40 Watts or higher.

If he has a somewhat lower powered soldering iron, it might not be heavy-duty enough to melt the old solder on the negative leads of the capacitors which all connect to the ground plane, which means a big area of copper which will dissipate heat applied to it fairly quickly, so it takes a lot to pump it in faster than it spreads it out.

If this is the case, Radio Shack, few of whose products I recommend, has a thing that looks like a soldering iron with a squeeze bulb attached which is called a de-soldering iron, and the price isn't too bad.

It can also generate enough heat to heat up the cap lead and the copper around the hole through which it sticks to get them hot enough to melt new solder to mechanically and electrically bond them together, so you can use it for both phases of the job, and if he does much soldering, he'll get more use out of it down the road.

What gal has a tool kit? The interesting kind.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

If the caps you got via eBay are not the specific part numbers in the list, the question arises whether they are low ESR and 105C temp rated. If not you're wasting your time and money installing them.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

dlfl said:


> If the caps you got via eBay are not the specific part numbers in the list, the question arises whether they are low ESR and 105C temp rated. If not you're wasting your time and money installing them.


You just killed my joy in buying my first electrical item to repair an electrical item

I completely forgot about the low ESR. It never stated if it was. I just cut & pasted(yeah I don't know if that's a word or not) what was on this thread to the eBay's website and came up with what I came up with. I got no one to blame but myself for not checking.

Just out of curiosity would it say low ESR on the capacitor itself?


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> When I answer questions here, a lot of the time the answer is aimed at future searchers as well.
> 
> If your BIL has a soldering iron (often referred to as a pencil soldering iron because of the way it's held) rated to draw 30 Watts or more, that'll probably do the job.
> 
> ...


---->*That's me. *


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> You just killed my joy in buying my first electrical item to repair an electrical item
> 
> I completely forgot about the low ESR. It never stated if it was. I just cut & pasted(yeah I don't know if that's a word or not) what was on this thread to the eBay's website and came up with what I came up with. I got no one to blame but myself for not checking.
> 
> Just out of curiosity would it say low ESR on the capacitor itself?


I doubt you can count on the caps being labeled either as low ESR or their temp rating. You would either have to get the exact part number that was in one of the lists or the cap would have to be spec'ed that way in the catalog.

Unitron, do you know?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dlfl said:


> I doubt you can count on the caps being labeled either as low ESR or their temp rating. You would either have to get the exact part number that was in one of the lists or the cap would have to be spec'ed that way in the catalog.
> 
> Unitron, do you know?


If she can post the brand and that brand's part number for the various caps, I can use the old Google machine to find out.

A link to the eBay listing would also help.

And what city she's in or near might let me know if she's near anybody that can be of help.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> If she can post the brand and that brand's part number for the various caps, I can use the old Google machine to find out.
> 
> A link to the eBay listing would also help.
> 
> And what city she's in or near might let me know if she's near anybody that can be of help.


There was a thread where a poster posted the capacitors. I just copied and pasted the info from there to eBay. I did the same for Digikey and that's how I got the capacitors. Here's what I ordered:

2200uF 6.3V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 3
3300uF 10V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
2200uF 25V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
470uF 16V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
1000uF 6.3V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 5

Please tell me these are right...pretty pretty please!

My brother-in-law does have the solder iron with the rosin core thingie.....My electrical terminology is amazing isn't it?

I do need a pic that will tell me which capacitors to replace. I don't remember seeing one. I know there's other pics on the net but none says 'here's the capacitors you need to replace'. That would be awesome.


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## jon96cobra (May 24, 2006)

Got some pictures of the power board from my Series 3. Looks like its needs a replacement power card or Capacitor. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwiexaaxszzul77/2014-04-16%2018.22.28.jpg


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

jon96cobra said:


> Got some pictures of the power board from my Series 3. Looks like its needs a replacement power card or Capacitor.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwiexaaxszzul77/2014-04-16%2018.22.28.jpg


No doubt. The best approach is to replace every cap except the huge one (The large-size, high-voltage, one which can be hard to find, and rarely fails).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> There was a thread where a poster posted the capacitors. I just copied and pasted the info from there to eBay. I did the same for Digikey and that's how I got the capacitors. Here's what I ordered:
> 
> 2200uF 6.3V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 3
> 3300uF 10V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
> ...


Okay, to save me taking my S3 apart, here's HerronScott's list

C401 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81 (Alternate: P15308CT-ND?)
C402 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81 (Alternate: P15308CT-ND?)

C601 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 Digikey P14402-ND $1.01
C701 2200uF 25V Panasonic EEU-FR1E222L Digikey P14428-ND $1.43
C501 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
C502 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
C503 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01

C50? 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
C603 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49 (Alternate: P15342CT-ND?)
C702 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49 (Alternate: P15342CT-ND?)
C403 1000uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FM0J102 Digikey P12340-ND $0.51

Which works out to

2 2200uF at 6.3V, leaving you with one spare

1 2200uF at 16V and 1 2200uF at 25V, you can get away with using a 25V 2200uF for the 16V one (you can go up in voltage a little bit, but never down), so that leaves you 3 spares.

4 3300uF at 10V, so that leaves you one spare

2 470uF at 16V, so you've got 3 spare

and 1 1000uF at 6.3V, so you've got 4 spares on that

so I'd say you're covered.

Since the ones you're getting are rated for 105 degrees, they're probably low ESR. Almost any application that needs caps that can handle more than the usual 85 degree rating of general purpose replacement caps is going to need them to be low ESR, so making them low ESR is probably how they achieve the high temp rating.

Maybe someone will make you an offer on your leftovers.

If you've managed to get the cover off of the TiVo already to eyeball the power supply caps and spot the bulging ones, I don't need to explain how snugly it fits and how you might have to use a small pry bar on the back, and also you know which is your #10 Torx bit, cause that's the one you used on the screws that hold the cover.

Put those screws in a little aspirin bottle or similar to keep them corralled.

Use that same Torx bit on the 6 or 8 screws that hold the power supply circuit board down to the chassis, put them in a different bottle, and then use a slightly smaller #8 or #9 Torx bit to take out the small, dark screw that goes in from the outside just above where the power cord plugs in and put it in the same bottle.

There are a bunch of different color wires that come off of the power supply, most of which go to a plug that plugs onto the motherboard. There's a lever thing on the side of the plug--squeeze that so that it unlatches from the socket, and then rock it just a little side to side and work the plug out of the socket.

The rest of the wires, 2 black, one red, one yellow, go over to the hard drive where they become part of a plug that also has the SATA data cable coming out of it. Disconnect the other end of that data cable from where it plugs onto the motherboard--there might be a latch thing you have to squeeze--then work that combo plug off of the back of the hard drive.

At that point you should be able to remove the power supply board.

HerronScott's list includes the numbers silkscreened onto the power supply board next to where the caps mount so that once you unsolder and remove a cap you'll be able to see the number if you couldn't already.

The white stuff that looks like marshmallow creme stuck to the side of some of the caps is just a kind of glue to hold them in place at the factory while they're getting soldered, and is no longer needed--you can bust it off with pliers or diagonal cutters.

Where the caps mount there's a circle silkscreened on the board and half of that circle is has hatch lines. That's the side with the hole where the negative lead of the new capacitor goes.

I don't know if the caps you get will have a row of + marks down one side to indicate the positive lead, or if it'll have a stripe with a bunch of - marks to indicate the negative lead, but an electrolytic capacitor with two leads has one positive lead and one negative lead and you have to be sure to connect the right one in the right place.

Replace them one at a time, make sketches of location and notes of which ones you've done.

That one where HerronScott wasn't sure about the C number on the board, you'll figure it out by process of elimination.

Once you get a new cap soldered in, you'll need to clip off the extra lead length sticking up (or down when it turned right side up) so they don't short against anything.

If your BIL has a soldering iron, he's probably got wire strippers that'll do it, or wire cutters or something.

And there's a white ribbon cable that comes from the front panel display and plugs into a socket near the front of the motherboard.

Take care not to bump into it and dislodge it even slightly from the socket, and be sure it's seated fully and squarely into that socket.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

jon96cobra said:


> Got some pictures of the power board from my Series 3. Looks like its needs a replacement power card or Capacitor.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwiexaaxszzul77/2014-04-16%2018.22.28.jpg


Yeah, thanks, Jon but that doesn't help. I'm so sorry. If I need to replace all of the capacitors except the big one then I need to see all of them. I've been trying to find good pics but I can't. 
This is a delicate situation for me. I've NEVER tried to repair anything inside of an electrical unit before so I need to be hand held on this one. It's already tanked but I don't want to make it worse than what it already is.
To make it easier for myself I'll just replace the three caps that's bulging and see how it goes from there.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I found a picture of the 648 power supply...but it was small. Blowing it up only allows you to see the relative locations of the caps. It may be helpful in that you can point to which of your caps are bulging.
There may be a capacitor or two hiding under that black heat sink on the right.










Ideally, you need to replace ALL the capacitors on the output section of the power supply (circled in yellow), because there is no way to tell if the bad caps affected any of the good caps. It's possible that the good capacitors on the supply may have been weakened by having to take up the slack from the failing capacitors.

If you only replace two or three, you are taking the chance that you will have to repeat the process sooner, rather than later.
It won't take that much more time to go ahead and replace all of them.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

I have three bulging capacitors C701 C401 and the one next to it which is bulging with a leak. I believe that's under that black thing you called a heat sink?

I'm waiting for my caps to arrive. I have my work cut out for me yet.

Unitron gave me instructions on how to get the power supply loose. I'm reading this over and over and when I get off of work I will be reading and looking over what I need to do that way when my brother-in-law comes we'll be ready. Or at least he'll be ready b/c I'm gonna be crouching in a corner somewhere.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

Sorry to jump in but I was curious if there is a parts list for the 652 capacitors or do they use the same ones? I have two with lifetime and mine is running fine at present and I'm not aware of my daughter having issues with hers. I thought there was going to be a sticky, or was a sticky with the parts list?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

teasip said:


> Sorry to jump in but I was curious if there is a parts list for the 652 capacitors or do they use the same ones? I have two with lifetime and mine is running fine at present and I'm not aware of my daughter having issues with hers. I thought there was going to be a sticky, or was a sticky with the parts list?


Here ya go:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9964473#post9964473
Note there are two possible PSU's for this and you need to determine which one you have.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

I appreciate the link. Thank you very much. I now have it filed away.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I still have two working & retired TCD652160 TiVo HDs, with already professionally-rebuilt (re-capped), and fully-tested, power supplies.

Without lifetime service, they aren't worth anything but for parts.

I don't like being an @zzhat, posting them as for sale. But, I sometimes do in the power supply threads. They are both already in the buyer/seller threads.

It's much cheaper to ship just the power supply, than the whole thing, and I'm open to offers. Shoot me a PM, if interested.

Sometimes people are better-off going this route. Especially if they've never done such repairs, or never operated a soldering iron.

Otherwise, I wish you the best of luck (to anybody). It's easy-peasy, if you do this sort of work as a living, or have done it as an enthusiast.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

Yeah with me having Time Warner Cable and having to get cable cards just to get the digital & HD channels to come out I realized getting a Tivo wasn't such a good idea.
I had put in a 'make the best offer' on eBay and wouldn't have thought the seller was going to accept my offer. I wasn't too pleased about it so now that I have this thing I might as well use it but I haven't been able to use it since January. I won it a few months prior but never really got into it b/c it does everything my cable box does.
As mentioned before I want to see if I can repair this thing. If I can and it doesn't blow up then I'll consider myself the queen of the world! Or at least a good DIY-er.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

You aren't a real DIY-er until you've accidentally burned yourself a time or two with a hot soldering iron and hit your thumb at least once with a hammer in addition to whatever minor cuts and scrapes and bruises you acquire along the way.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Yeah with me having Time Warner Cable and having to get cable cards just to get the digital & HD channels to come out I realized getting a Tivo wasn't such a good idea.
> ...........


Getting a Tivo would be a much better idea if you weren't on Time Warner.

You still haven't given us your location but most TWC systems use SDV which means you also have to use a Tuning Adapter, or you'll be missing up to half your channels. TA's are furnished free by TWC but they cost a lot in aggravation. And you can't count on TWC to know you need a TA or to give you much help with it.

CableCARD is needed for all cable providers.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

dlfl said:


> Getting a Tivo would be a much better idea if you weren't on Time Warner.
> 
> You still haven't given us your location but most TWC systems use SDV which means you also have to use a Tuning Adapter, or you'll be missing up to half your channels. TA's are furnished free by TWC but they cost a lot in aggravation. And you can't count on TWC to know you need a TA or to give you much help with it.
> 
> CableCARD is needed for all cable providers.


The Tivo that I have gets both analogue and digital cable. Since I have Time Warner Cable-been with them since '99-I've been pretty satisfied with them. I know I'm weird for saying that but it's true.

I did have to get those things and nope had no clue how to set it up. Like I said I back away from electrical stuff.
That's why I say getting that Tivo was a bad idea. It's more of a hassle to get all of the channels I have to work with this thing. I'm still trying to figure out what was I thinking when I wanted to get this. I fell for that 'cable box' replacement b/c it doesn't replace the cable box.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> The Tivo that I have gets both analogue and digital cable. Since I have Time Warner Cable-been with them since '99-I've been pretty satisfied with them. I know I'm weird for saying that but it's true.
> 
> I did have to get those things and nope had no clue how to set it up. Like I said I back away from electrical stuff.
> That's why I say getting that Tivo was a bad idea. It's more of a hassle to get all of the channels I have to work with this thing. I'm still trying to figure out what was I thinking when I wanted to get this. I fell for that 'cable box' replacement b/c it doesn't replace the cable box.


With the use of cable cards, a TiVo newer than a Series 2 does replace your cable box for digital cable.

(If you still have analog cable, any (non-DirectTV satellite receiver TiVo) TiVo-except maybe the new Series 5s--can tune that just fine, even without a cable card)

TWC does not want you to own a TiVo, they want you to have no choice but to rent cable boxes and DVRs from them, which is to say after you pay them for the cable signal (since they're the only cable company available at your address), they want you to pay even more to be able to actually view the cable signal.

(To me that's reason enough to own a TiVo right there.)

Cable cards are what keep you from being completely at their mercy.

A few years back there were TVs made that could use cable cards so that you could use the TV's remote to change digital channels on the TV's tuner instead of having to feed it from a cable box and juggle remotes.

Digital cable channels do not have to be encrypted or encoded or otherwise be made unavailable unless you do something more than just connecting to the cable itself, but the cable company wants it that way so that they can effectively "disconnect" you while sitting at a computer back in an office somewhere instead of having to send a tech in a truck out to your house to physically remove the cable line. It also lets them leave the cable hooked up when you move out and only "turn it on" for the next person living there if they actually sign up for service.

Cable cards make it possible to have a system like that while still letting you use your choice of equipment instead of having to settle for renting theirs.

Unfortunately, when the original Series 3, which is the model you have, design was finalized and they started making them and offering them for sale to the public the S cards, which only serve a single tuner, were the norm, and the design and specs of the M cards (designed to serve multiple tuners) were not fully finalized.

As a result, the first S3 can use either an S card in each cable card slot, one for each tuner, or it can use an M card in place of either or both, but even if it's an M card, it can only serve one tuner, so for that model you need 2 of some kind of cable card to be able to use both tuners on digital cable channels.

That's not really TiVo's fault.

(The later Series 3 platform models, the ones without the clock/now recording display, the Chevy Impalas to the original's Cadillac Coupe De Ville, can get by with only one M card for both tuners, as can the S4s and S5s)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

unitron said:


> .....
> Digital cable channels do not have to be encrypted or encoded or otherwise be made unavailable unless you do something more than just connecting to the cable itself, but the cable company wants it that way so that they can effectively "disconnect" you while sitting at a computer back in an office somewhere instead of having to send a tech in a truck out to your house to physically remove the cable line.
> .........


And how idiotic that TWC (at least my TWC) is notorious for sending a truck out, sometimes with a delay of almost a week, in response to problems that can be fixed by the person sitting at the computer back at the office, e.g., they just need to properly provision your account and send the right signals to your equipment. This situation has been eased somewhat by the availability of the TWC national CableCARD help desk, where they actually know a little bit about TiVo's and can send the required signals directly. This is also who you need to talk to to self-install your CableCARD. Their number is:
866-532-2598
*Rikki don't lose that number!*  (Steely Dan, 1974)


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

Yeah, my Tivo was getting channels with no problems. It actually picked up more analogue channels than I thought. I went and got the converter and cards and they were able to send the signal to my Tivo w/o any problems. I like this model b/c it has a clock on it. I'm not a fan of DVR's, VCR's, or anything like the Tivos that don't have a clock to it.

I'm STILL waiting on my capacitors. I should've went to Radio Shack first. I guess I fell for that seller who stated that they do fast shipping when in fact I don't see anything that suggests they shipped it yet....grrr.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

Radio Shack doesn't carry low ESR capacitors and if they did they certainly wouldn't be reasonably priced.

The eBay seller might have sent them by 1st class mail and/or with only delivery confirmation. Those shipments don't really have any tracking data and appear like they haven't been shipped and then they just show up...usually.

Edit: I hope you didn't order them from overseas sellers.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

squint said:


> Radio Shack doesn't carry low ESR capacitors and if they did they certainly wouldn't be reasonably priced.
> 
> The eBay seller might have sent them by 1st class mail and/or with only delivery confirmation. Those shipments don't really have any tracking data and appear like they haven't been shipped and then they just show up...usually.
> 
> Edit: I hope you didn't order them from overseas sellers.


Glad you told me that. I would've walked in there talking like I know some stuff and they would be looking at me like .

I most definitely didn't order those caps from over seas. They had good prices on them but I was like 'no'!

My caps have arrived. I can't do anything like I want b/c my mother-in-law's birthday is today and we're going to celebrate with her. 
Hopefully my brother-in-law will be able to attack this thing tomorrow. Now I'm like a little kid, anxiously awaiting for something great to happen.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Hopefully my brother-in-law will be able to attack this thing tomorrow. Now I'm like a little kid, anxiously awaiting for something great to happen.


Good luck and let us know how it goes. It is a great feeling when you get something working and an awful one when you don't. -- Doug


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Glad you told me that. I would've walked in there talking like I know some stuff and they would be looking at me like .
> 
> I most definitely didn't order those caps from over seas. They had good prices on them but I was like 'no'!
> 
> ...


Nowadays the people working at Radio Shack aren't likely to know anything about electronics, either.

In fact, now that you know that there are general purpose electrolytic caps and specialized versions like the low ESR ones, you probably know more than many of them.

(they can probably still whip you big-time in a cell phone contract form filling out contest, though  )


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> .......... I went and got the converter and cards and they were able to send the signal to my Tivo w/o any problems.........


By "converter" you mean the Tuning Adapter, I assume.
The real test is if you can reliably tune all the channels you're supposed to get (after fixing the power supply). If not, call the TWC national help desk.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

dlfl said:


> By "converter" you mean the Tuning Adapter, I assume.
> The real test is if you can reliably tune all the channels you're supposed to get (after fixing the power supply). If not, call the TWC national help desk.


See, I told ya I'm not savvy in the electronic field. I can't even tell the difference between a tuning adapter & a converter...sheesh.

Well I'm waiting to see if my brother-in-law can assist with my Tivo today. I don't want to pressure the guy but by golly I'm impatient.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

If there was a reality TV show about people fixing their Tivos, I'd probably watch it...


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

LOL, the show would be over quick from all the blow ups and injuries.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

squint said:


> If there was a reality TV show about people fixing their Tivos, I'd probably watch it...


If there was a reality show that actually was about reality I might watch it.
I find it hard to believe that reality occurs unaltered by the presence of a TV production crew.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> See, I told ya I'm not savvy in the electronic field. I can't even tell the difference between a tuning adapter & a converter...sheesh.
> 
> Well I'm waiting to see if my brother-in-law can assist with my Tivo today. I don't want to pressure the guy but by golly I'm impatient.


It's easy ... the converter (or whatever) has a brand name and model number that would allow many posters here to identify what it is.


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## Intravino (Nov 28, 2008)

I just had some freezee with my TiVo that has been ON since 2008. I checked the PS like the good info the other threads. Three caps tested bad on the LCR meter.

I changed all of the capacitors noted on the other thread.

Works 100 % now.

Thanks for the members that posted info on those thread.


Intravino


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

Yeah...mine's haven't been fixed yet. When I told my brother-in-law how many caps that should be replaced he looked defeated. I'll be lucky if I could get the three that needs to be replaced replaced. So as I sit and wipe the dust off my Tivo daily I may never know if it will be repaired or not. : (


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Yeah...mine's haven't been fixed yet. When I told my brother-in-law how many caps that should be replaced he looked defeated. I'll be lucky if I could get the three that needs to be replaced replaced. So as I sit and wipe the dust off my Tivo daily I may never know if it will be repaired or not. : (


Just tell the lazy bum to lend you his soldering equipment and do it yourself.

It's about the easiest and simplest soldering job anyone will ever come across.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

OK...since joining this thread I have been patiently waiting for my brother-in-law to help repair some capacitors in my Tivo. I've tried not to mention or pressure him but each time I say the word 'tivo' he skips to a different subject which led me to believe he's not going to fix it. Soooo, I've taken it upon myself to purchase a soldering iron with a base and a solder vacuum sucker. I've been watching several videos on how to use a soldering iron and how to replace a bad capacitor but they all dealt with TV repair. It looks fairly simple which I'm confident that I will be able to fix this. I have my victory dance and theme music waiting.
Had I known my brother-in-law wasn't in the mood to help me I would've tried to fix this a long time ago.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Good luck in your effort.

May I recommend that you go to Radio Shack (or Fry's, etc.) and look for some cheap DIY project that you can practice soldering before you actually start working on the Tivo power supply. 
You may wish you had, if you don't.



> I have my victory dance and theme music waiting.


Also, you'll have bragging rights you can hang over your BIL's head.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

D_vadout said:


> Soooo, I've taken it upon myself to purchase a soldering iron with a base and a solder vacuum sucker.I've been watching several videos on how to use a soldering iron and how to replace a bad capacitor but they all dealt with TV repair.


It should be fairly similar, just basic desoldering and soldering.



D_vadout said:


> It looks fairly simple which I'm confident that I will be able to fix this. I have my victory dance and theme music waiting.


The only real surprise was how the solder sometimes resisted melting. The larger capacitors will absorb more heat and transfer it to the air faster. Sometimes one leg is connected to a large ground plane and takes much more effort to melt its solder than the other leg. I have to use a wider tip and hold it against the solder in an orientation that maximizes heat transfer.

Maybe I'll make a video one day. I have one power supply and 3 Tivos enroute that will need new capacitors.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

steve614 said:


> Good luck in your effort.
> 
> May I recommend that you go to Radio Shack (or Fry's, etc.) and look for some cheap DIY project that you can practice soldering before you actually start working on the Tivo power supply.
> You may wish you had, if you don't.


Gee...thanks for that vote of confidence, lol!

I have worked with tools before. I know I haven't worked with a soldering iron before but I believe I can fix my Tivo. How hard is it to heat a pin and dab some solder on it to seal in the capacitor?

 Hmm...if I never done it before.... I should ask that question after I feat my quest.

Also Radio Shack does not have anything 'cheap' that I could tinker with. If they did I would've tried.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Gee...thanks for that vote of confidence, lol!
> 
> I have worked with tools before. I know I haven't worked with a soldering iron before but I believe I can fix my Tivo. How hard is it to heat a pin and dab some solder on it to seal in the capacitor?
> 
> ...


Take the power supply out of the TiVo.

Turn it over.

Find where the leads of a capacitor to be replaced stick through and are soldered to the copper traces.

The big one will be the ground plane, and it'll dissipate heat better than a skinny trace, so a little patience will be required.

Heat the solder surrounding the lead and the lead with the soldering iron (unless you got the thing from Radio Shack that looks like a soldering iron but has a tip with a tube coming off of it to a squeeze bulb, in which case use that instead).

Take some new solder and feed it up against the solder you're heating and the thing with which you are heating it.

It will melt more easily, since it's not attached to the lead and the mound of solder and the copper trace, all of which acts as a heat sink.

When it melts, it'll help melt the solder which is already there.

Observe lead polarity when you put the new capacitors in.

And take notes to keep track of which capacitor you've removed, so as to get the right replacement in its place.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Gee...thanks for that vote of confidence, lol!
> 
> I have worked with tools before. I know I haven't worked with a soldering iron before but I believe I can fix my Tivo. How hard is it to heat a pin and dab some solder on it to seal in the capacitor?
> 
> ...


 Sorry, I was only trying to be helpful. 
I'm pretty confidant that I could repair a Tivo power supply, but it's been awhile since I've done any soldering. I wouldn't tackle the project without a little practice. I only suggested you do the same because you yourself didn't sound very confidant in your previous posts.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

steve614 said:


> Sorry, I was only trying to be helpful.
> I'm pretty confidant that I could repair a Tivo power supply, but it's been awhile since I've done any soldering. I wouldn't tackle the project without a little practice. I only suggested you do the same because you yourself didn't sound very confidant in your previous posts.


Yeah, I never repair anything that's electric and this was before I saw 'how to' videos. Those videos helped a lot.

Once I see how to do something and having it embedded in my brain I'm good to go.

When I was in high school eons ago I taught myself how to play the violin. I haven't touched a musical instrument since my college days-eons ago-but I still remember the process of playing the violin. Mind you I now have a hard time reading music but it's still there.

Likewise with changing break shoes on a car. I remember how a mechanic did it. I never had to change break shoes but I remember how it's done.
I should be good to go on this Tivo. When I get my supplies I'll been going over in my head what I will do to first in order to ease the panic I once had before I actually attack the project head on.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Yeah, I never repair anything that's electric and this was before I saw 'how to' videos.  Those videos helped a lot.
> 
> Once I see how to do something and having it embedded in my brain I'm good to go.
> 
> ...


You're going to be like Ruby Keeler's character in 42nd Street, going out there as a kid but coming back as a star.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

OK! I'm in a panic. I have a 110-120 v soldering iron and is having the hardest time trying to get the solder to melt. It's like the soldering iron keeps cutting off. I was able to remove ONE capacitor and now I can't seem to get the solder hot enough to be able to loosen so I can remove the rest of the capacitors. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong and if there's another way to get these caps off w/o having to heat things up. I've been trying to remove these blasted things since this morning.
I have a soldering iron and a vacuum sucker. That's it.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> OK! I'm in a panic. I have a 110-120 v soldering iron and is having the hardest time trying to get the solder to melt. It's like the soldering iron keeps cutting off. I was able to remove ONE capacitor and now I can't seem to get the solder hot enough to be able to loosen so I can remove the rest of the capacitors. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong and if there's another way to get these caps off w/o having to heat things up. I've been trying to remove these blasted things since this morning.
> I have a soldering iron and a vacuum sucker. That's it.


For what wattage is your soldering iron rated?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

If necessary, one can use this tool to both unsolder the old caps and heat the new caps' leads and the board enough to melt solder.









http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731

Be sure the solder you use is only tin and lead (and the rosin core), without other stuff, like silver, in it.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

D_vadout said:


> OK! I'm in a panic. I have a 110-120 v soldering iron and is having the hardest time trying to get the solder to melt. It's like the soldering iron keeps cutting off. I was able to remove ONE capacitor and now I can't seem to get the solder hot enough to be able to loosen so I can remove the rest of the capacitors. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong and if there's another way to get these caps off w/o having to heat things up. I've been trying to remove these blasted things since this morning.
> I have a soldering iron and a vacuum sucker. That's it.


A few possibilities:

Iron's tip not tinned resulting in poor heat transfer.

Iron not powerful enough. I use a 75W soldering station and a big fat tip on the most troublesome capacitors and it's still sometimes a chore to get the solder to melt.

Tip too small or not enough surface area in contact with solder you want to melt resulting in poor heat transfer.

Tip has oxidized. See:

http://www.hakko.com/english/maintenance/topic_kotesaki.html


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

squint said:


> A few possibilities:
> 
> Iron's tip not tinned resulting in poor heat transfer.
> 
> ...


I just got the iron yesterday and used it today so it shouldn't be dirty. The wattage is 30. I have a screw on each side of the iron. My BIL told me to try not to solder where the screw side is. So I will retry tomorrow.
I also went to buy some desolder tape. It seemed like no one had it. Oh well. 
So with this new found info I will retry tomorrow when Mothers Day die down and will post hopefully my successful results.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

As you guys know I've been trying to fix my Tivo. It went down sometime in January and I just let it sit till I wanted to do something about it.

Weaknees was charging $99 for diagnostics. That didn't include the actual repair itself so I wanted to see if I could do it.

W/O you guys I wouldn't have known where to begin.

I purchased some capacitors, solder iron, rosin core-came with the iron-vacuum sucker, and a desoldering braid. That braid was horrible, btw.

Throughout the month of April and this month I had a hard time trying to remove those blasted capacitors. A 30watt iron without whatever you're suppose to put on the tip was horrible. My brother-in-law who backed out of helping me let me borrow his solder iron and I got the job done.

I then replaced the capacitors and plugged the Tivo in. Everything booted great. So I was about to do my victory dance. I restarted the Tivo and it went through the whole 35 minute process. It was taking too long and I had it uncovered so I turned it off and was going to let it cool so I can put the rest of the screws in and replug everything back up. While it was cooling off I noticed one of the new capacitors that I put in was bulging. I couldn't believe it. I got a closer look and realized the non-genius of myself-had put that capacitor on the wrong way. Sooooo I had to take that one off and put a new one in. Wasn't too pleased about that.
After that hassle was taken care of I replugged everything and went through the steps I had to do to be able to watch TV.

Well...NONE of my channels are coming out. It's acknowledging the channels but I got a gray screen. Something that I had that led me to believe something was wrong with my Tivo back in January of this year. Everything else works but my channels.
I never took out my cable cards and now my Tivo isn't reading any of them. It won't even show the analog channels that it picked up.

So now I have to wait till I get off of work to call my cable company to see if it is those cable cards. It shouldn't be b/c I never removed them but I'll have to see.

The good news is my hard drive wasn't the problem and it's not in a boot loop.

Alas my victory dance is put on hold. Again.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> As you guys know I've been trying to fix my Tivo. It went down sometime in January and I just let it sit till I wanted to do something about it.
> 
> Weaknees was charging $99 for diagnostics. That didn't include the actual repair itself so I wanted to see if I could do it.
> 
> ...


You fixed your power supply, something almost every Series 2 and 3 owner will have to deal with if they haven't already, so that ought to be worth a at least a victory "shimmy in place" and a Woo-Hoo for the time being, and now you have the first step in troubleshooting (make sure it's not the power supply) handled, and can move on.

Sorry for not warning you about the crap Radio Shack substituted a couple of years ago for the barely adequate desoldering braid they used to carry.

There's brand name stuff out there that's actually good.

So you get boot screen and menus okay now, just not live TV?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I get the feeling that declaring the power supply "fixed", and calling it "eliminated" as being the problem, or being a part of a problem, is dangerously premature.

Anybody who has ever reversed the polarity on an electrolytic capacitor, knows that the first thing that should happen is an INSTANT "BANG!", resulting in the top of the capacitor being INSTANTLY blown open, or the whole capacitor casing being launched like a hollow bullet. The facts that it didn't go instantly, had time to be reversed while powered-on, and only bulged, raises a lot of red flags, and questions.

There have been times I've been lucky to not have been being standing over the capacitor, or in it's path.

1. Were ALL the caps replaced (less the biggest one on the high-voltage side)?
2. Was there only one error made?
3. Did this DIY repair, with all the trial and error, possibly overheat things, perhaps even over-heating the new cap leads, thus damaging new caps?
4. I wouldn't trust any caps on that same voltage output rail (especially the ones in-parallel), no matter how unharmed they may appear, or for being new.
5. Whatever happened to making the first thing to be done being to get out a multimeter, and checking all the output voltages (with the PS attached to the board, of course), as well as a setting the meter to the AC scale, and checking the DC outputs for ripple, and proper filtering?

I think it is absurd to get the cable company involved. Removing the cablecard, and not being able to get channels that were there before, without requiring it (AFTER repeating guided setup with the cablecard removed), is proof that the TiVo has a problem. What responsibility does the cableco have here? I'll answer that: "NONE". A "paperclip antenna" can also be used on the antenna coax port to see if OTA works, before calling in the cableco.

I'm not trying to be harsh. I'm keeping it real, and pointing out some valid outstanding matters, which should be fully addressed, before involving the cableco at all, or declaring the PS is "fixed" or "eliminated as being the problem, or a part of the problem". That's all.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> I get the feeling that declaring the power supply "fixed", and calling it "eliminated" as being the problem, or being a part of a problem, is dangerously premature.
> 
> Anybody who has ever reversed the polarity on an electrolytic capacitor, knows that the first thing that should happen is an INSTANT "BANG!", resulting in the top of the capacitor being INSTANTLY blown open, or the whole capacitor casing being launched like a hollow bullet. The facts that it didn't go instantly, had time to be reversed while powered-on, and only bulged, raises a lot of red flags, and questions.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not trying to be harsh either when I say thanks for raining on my victory parade.
I've accomplished something I never did before. With no training and a family member who backed out of helping me I say I did a pretty good job with fixing my Tivo. Nothing burned or blew up in my face which to me is a victory in itself when I never done anything like this before.
I was able to fix my Tivo w/o having to send it somewhere. I'll admit an error on my part with the capacitor being put on backwards. The stripes on the circuit board aren't in the best position to see so that's where I had the problem.
As I mentioned before I'm not electronic savvy and had some cable cords plugged in wrong. I have a 5 cable splitter that has cable cords going through my digital adapter, dvd/vcr, and my Tivo so it's a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what goes where.
In the midst of me trying to get the cable cords to go where they belong my cable company was upgrading my cable cards. With a quick call to them to send the right signal I was able to get my channels to come out right.
Right now things are looking good on my end and I now have a general idea on what to do if my Tivo goes down again.
So to the guys who gave me advice on what to do thank you so much for the patience in dealing with this non-electrical savvy gal. So far so good. If something wasn't right it would show and things are working. You guys rock!


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

D_vadout said:


> Well, I'm not trying to be harsh either when I say thanks for raining on my victory parade.
> I've accomplished something I never did before. With no training and a family member who backed out of helping me I say I did a pretty good job with fixing my Tivo. Nothing burned or blew up in my face which to me is a victory in itself when I never done anything like this before.
> I was able to fix my Tivo w/o having to send it somewhere. I'll admit an error on my part with the capacitor being put on backwards. The stripes on the circuit board aren't in the best position to see so that's where I had the problem.
> As I mentioned before I'm not electronic savvy and had some cable cords plugged in wrong. I have a 5 cable splitter that has cable cords going through my digital adapter, dvd/vcr, and my Tivo so it's a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what goes where.
> ...


Ok, now you can do your victory dance, or do another one. Congrats. :up:

I did wonder if you had verified that the actual cable you were hooking up worked on anything else, or if there was some simple explanation (after I posted, of course).

There are so many threads covering so many subjects, I can't jump in and help everybody. Unitron usually keeps tabs on things in the power supply threads. I don't have anything older than my Roamios, other than a couple of retired TiVo HDs, but stay subbed to the old threads, and try to help if nobody else jumps in.

This is from another Series 3 power supply thread, which was where my attention was for the time:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10109898#post10109898



nooneuknow said:


> Since the power supply only has the printed electrical traces on the bottom side (and usually just "jumper bridges" on the top), as opposed to a multi-layer PCB with hidden connections and traces, like most computer boards (and modern TiVo mainboards), damage can be easily repaired.
> 
> Often, the heat will cause the traces to lift. Sometimes it's caused by the traces coming off the board, before the solder melts. Even the most careful professional has had this happen.
> 
> ...


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> Ok, now you can do your victory dance, or do another one. Congrats. :up:
> 
> I did wonder if you had verified that the actual cable you were hooking up worked on anything else, or if there was some simple explanation (after I posted, of course).
> 
> ...


When my Tivo bit the dust it was connected to everything that I mentioned in the prior post. Everything was working. 
Since it's been out of commission for so long my brother-in-law forgot how he had it set up and he helped me work it out. Took long enough for me to realize I should take pics the next time I have to unplug everything so I'll know what to do if I have to replug everything back in.

Time Warner is in the process of updating their stuff which caused my Tivo to reboot. At first it made me nervous but right now things are still looking good.

I will be more than happy to share what I learned within the month and a half that I've been on here.
When I sit and think about it, the forums I've ever joined this one and another one(diabetic cat)has helped me faster than it would have if I had decided to do things on my own.

If I hadn't joined this one my Tivo would still be either a: collecting dust or b: me shelling out hundreds of bucks to get it fixed, and I'm glad I didn't have to resort to either one.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> When my Tivo bit the dust it was connected to everything that I mentioned in the prior post. Everything was working.
> Since it's been out of commission for so long my brother-in-law forgot how he had it set up and he helped me work it out. Took long enough for me to realize I should take pics the next time I have to unplug everything so I'll know what to do if I have to replug everything back in.
> 
> Time Warner is in the process of updating their stuff which caused my Tivo to reboot. At first it made me nervous but right now things are still looking good.
> ...


Just keep them mentally separated and don't try to replace the capacitors on the cat.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> Just keep them mentally separated and don't try to replace the capacitors on the cat.


Ya know, that would've been easier than giving her those insulin shots.

I can picture my cat now having capacitors sticking out of her fur.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Ya know, that would've been easier than giving her those insulin shots.
> 
> I can picture my cat now having capacitors sticking out of her fur.


Do you know what cat fur would smell like if it touched a hot soldering iron?


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> Do you know what cat fur would smell like if it touched a hot soldering iron?


Hmmm...there's only one way to find out.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Hmmm...there's only one way to find out.


I've never actually set a cat on fire or even considered doing so, but I figure burning cat fur is going to smell about the same as any other kind of hair does when burned, which is approximately awful.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

D_vadout said:


> Hmmm...there's only one way to find out.


Run kitty run! 

Scott


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

It occurred to me much later than it should have that perhaps none of us mentioned to D_vadout the need to clip off the excess lead length on the new caps after they're soldered in so as to avoid the risk of shorting to something.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

unitron said:


> It occurred to me much later than it should have that perhaps none of us mentioned to D_vadout the need to clip off the excess lead length on the new caps after they're soldered in so as to avoid the risk of shorting to something.


Those clippings also work good as trace repair jumpers. Funny, the odd things that enter my thoughts when I wake up in the middle of the night...

Also, don't feel bad that you missed that one little thing. I came up with about a dozen that should have been pointed-out to a novice/first-timer. So, don't sweat just the one.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> It occurred to me much later than it should have that perhaps none of us mentioned to D_vadout the need to clip off the excess lead length on the new caps after they're soldered in so as to avoid the risk of shorting to something.


Yep. One step ahead of you Unitron. Per the videos that I watched I learned to clip the legs, pegs, whatever they're called so it won't short out the board.

The beatings that I gave on the back of that board....I'm shocked my Tivo works. 
It's amazing what you can learn from watching soldering videos.

Replacing all of them was a challenge. I realized the original caps weren't low ESR's. 
When my BIL(brother-in-law)saw how many needed to be changed he didn't want to do it. The bad thing about that is that he never said he didn't want to. I got the hint when he kept putting it off.

Trying to get the caps off was the hardest. After that everything was a breeze. I was shocked at how easy that part was.
Needless to say I'm glad I got a chance to teach myself on how to solder.

Would I do this again?

Heezie naw!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Yep. One step ahead of you Unitron. Per the videos that I watched I learned to clip the legs, pegs, whatever they're called so it won't short out the board.
> 
> The beatings that I gave on the back of that board....I'm shocked my Tivo works.
> It's amazing what you can learn from watching soldering videos.
> ...


If you ever have an LCD TV or PC monitor quit on you, search for the model number at lcdalternatives and see if they have a cap kit already made up for it.

If they do, then that's a good indication that the problem with it is bad caps in the switching power supply, and now that you know how to replace them...

You're going to be thoroughly dangerous by the time we get through with you.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

unitron said:


> If you ever have an LCD TV or PC monitor quit on you, search for the model number at lcdalternatives and see if they have a cap kit already made up for it.
> 
> If they do, then that's a good indication that the problem with it is bad caps in the switching power supply, and now that you know how to replace them...
> 
> You're going to be thoroughly dangerous by the time we get through with you.


Unitron is right. I've had to replace the filter caps on two computer LCDs, and one TV over the past few years. Bad caps made it into CRT screens/TVs, and are still showing up. I could spend all day listing every device that just needed a few dollars worth of parts, and soldering skills.

Some of them are even real major name brand name ones, or have been counterfeited so well, there's no telling the difference.

The other problems with electrolytic caps are:

1. They are only meant to last a few years in the first place (keep within their ratings).
2. They can just dry-out over time, with no external signs.
3. They can be 100% bad, and have no visible signs to indicate it.

If in doubt, and lacking a capacitor tester, replace them. If they bulge, or leak, be glad you got a visual indicator at all. If one cap is bad, those of the same brand and rating, should all really be replaced (and others given scrutiny, over whether you just want to trust them).

Consumer electronics devices will often just start operating oddly, or erratically, when caps don't hold-up. Sometimes, they seem fine until turned-off, and you go to turn them on again (and then nothing happens). So, if you have something that "doesn't like to turn back on", but otherwise works, you know what to suspect first.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

unitron said:


> If you ever have an LCD TV or PC monitor quit on you, search for the model number at lcdalternatives and see if they have a cap kit already made up for it.
> 
> If they do, then that's a good indication that the problem with it is bad caps in the switching power supply, and now that you know how to replace them...
> 
> You're going to be thoroughly dangerous by the time we get through with you.


Son I'm lethal.


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> Unitron is right. I've had to replace the filter caps on two computer LCDs, and one TV over the past few years. Bad caps made it into CRT screens/TVs, and are still showing up. I could spend all day listing every device that just needed a few dollars worth of parts, and soldering skills.
> 
> Some of them are even real major name brand name ones, or have been counterfeited so well, there's no telling the difference.
> 
> ...


Could you do the same for a computer monitor if it goes out?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

D_vadout said:


> Could you do the same for a computer monitor if it goes out?


If it's an old style monitor, with a picture tube that has to warm up that makes the back of the monitor stick out and makes the whole thing very heavy, then it's probably too old to have gotten any of the "capacitor plague" capacitors when they built it, and whatever's wrong will be much more difficult to figure out and fix.

But if it's a flat panel LCD monitor made from the mid '90s on, there's a very good chance that if it up and quits powering on, it's the same reason and solution as with your TiVo power supply.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

unitron said:


> If it's an old style monitor, with a picture tube that has to warm up that makes the back of the monitor stick out and makes the whole thing very heavy, then it's probably too old to have gotten any of the "capacitor plague" capacitors when they built it, and whatever's wrong will be much more difficult to figure out and fix.
> 
> But if it's a flat panel LCD monitor made from the mid '90s on, there's a very good chance that if it up and quits powering on, it's the same reason and solution as with your TiVo power supply.


I've found bulged caps on old CRT TVs and monitors. Often it's just one cap, in the power-on relay circuit, where the cheapest and least reliable cap was used, likely to save money.

I've also had monitors that refused to resume from standby, but would power-on if the power was pulled and restored. Same thing.

I've also had a variety of devices that could only be powered-on by a remote. Same thing, bad cap in the circuit that receives the signal, and triggers a relay.

Like I said, I could spend a day listing every scenario where one single cap was responsible for something being completely unable to power on, was hit-and-miss, or was otherwise not operating properly.

In many/most of these cases, it was the only cap of that brand in the whole TV, and/or the only cap in the circuit involved.

Big shock (sarcasm) that these brand caps I replaced were later the top offenders in more modern equipment as being "known to be suspect".

In power supplies, it's never a good idea to only replace the caps that have visible signs. The rest have to pick up the slack, and will be stressed by doing so. This includes caps on other voltage rails, and ones upstream and downstream, in the circuits. Usually, with power supplies, the only one I don't mess with, unless it's easy to source and reasonably priced, is the very high voltage one(s) on the voltage doubling/tripling switching transistor(s). If a switching transistor fails, then it's a good idea to replace the transistor and the very high voltage caps (while taking proper safety precautions).


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## D_vadout (Apr 14, 2014)

Hello people. 
I haven't forgot about this forum. I've been keeping an eye out on my Tivo making sure it's still ticking after I repaired it. 
It is.
Had a huge thunderstorm last week which caused my power to go out for about 7.5 hours! It didn't do any damage although I did nearly burn down my kitchen by trying to use survival camping techniques that involved a homemade pot stove(made out of Pepsi cans) denatured alcohol and a camping stove from Walmart.
I never repaired anything electrical in my life but managed to do so with my Tivo.
Just don't invite me on a camping trip. Ever!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Glad to hear that both you and your TiVo are still hanging in there.

:up:


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