# How to activate eSATA port on TiVo Series 3



## spike2k5

Looks like external SATA (eSATA) port on TiVo S3 can be activated.

*Method 1: Using kickstart 62.* 
Update: Oct 19, 2007
With the software 9.2, Kickstart 62 method is disabled on Tivo S3.
However, you can just plug and Play method to add an eSATA drive.
Instruction can be found here.

Instructions with pictures go *here*.
More technical info *here*

It works only on unmodified original capacity "A" drive (250GB).
So, if you have upgraded your TiVo drive already, the following procedure won't work. You will need to try method 2.

Here is how you can add eSATA drive to TiVo S3:

Things you will need:
S3 TiVo, 
eSATA drive and eSATA II cable or (SATA drive and eSATA II -> SATA cable)
TiVo remote

- Poweroff your Tivo if it's on

- connect eSATA drive to eSATA port on the back of S3.
It uses eSATA connector (I) so normal SATA 1 or 2 cables won't work.
If your external SATA drive has only SATA 1 port, you can get a cable known as eSATA->sATA cable

- Power on eSATA device.

- Power on TiVo

- Point TiVo remote to S3 tivo with pause (yellow) button pressed

- keep on pressing pause button until, all the lights go out on the front panel.

or

if you don't feel like holding the pause button, wait unitl 2 red LED lights on the front left panel goes out then press pause button. (thx. to sfhub)

- Shortly after that, you will see single orange LED light on the front panel.

- Release pause button, and type "62" while pointing remote to Tivo

- If you did everything correctly, TiVo will reboot and after a minute or so, and you will see 
"Your second hard drive has been activated" screen.

- Let it finish booting up and you are done.

- Go to system information screen and check # of hours.

*Method 2: You can get new mfstools from mfslive.org.*
This method is the most flexable and has no restrictions but will require some computer skills and you'll need to pull your drive out of TiVo.

*It's reported to be working on 
Internal 1TB + 1TB eSATA of total 265HD or 2513 SD hours*.
(Maximum size: A + eSATA = 2TiB or 2.2 TB or 2^32 * 512 B)

*Software versions tested: 8.0.1b(factory), 8.1.1 and 8.3.1*

Make sure eSATA is on and connected to TiVo at all times. 
If it's missing, bad things will happen (reboot) and you will see a divorce screen.
You will loose recordings if you divorce so be careful.
*Try to Select an eSATA device that will power on w/o user interaction after power loss. * 
Otherwise, your TiVo will be stuck at divorce screen and will miss scheduled recordings if power loss occurs.

*What eSATA drive to get:*
I would stick with an eSATA enclosure, a bare drive combo and stay away from preassembled eSATA drives. 
From what I've seen, preassembled drives are not packaged well so might get damaged during shipping process. 
Also, some drives may not work on S3 due to the way on/off buttons are implemented.

*Stay away from Seagate FreeAgent Pro * which seem to have a serious problem with eSATA port. I tried two and both worked well on USB port connected to a computer but won't work using eSATA port. I get "bus error" and "soft resets" every now and then. I tried with different cables and nothing helps.

*For the best result try:*
Antec MX1 (active cooling) + Seagate DB35.3 SATA drive (ST3*500*830SCE, ST3*750*840SCE)

*Having problem?:*
Check this post out. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824

*Update: June-01-2007*
Mfslive Boot CD v1.2 is released that supports eSATA drive.

*Update: May-29-2007*
There is a bug in TiVo built-in divorce process so if you divorced your eSATA, you won't be able to use mfstools. 
I'm not sure what kind of impact this bug will have on the way TiVo works but it appears to be just cosmetic at this point but 
I would divorce it cleanly by pulling the drive and running a utility called fixdivorce.
I don't know who to contact to report this kind of bug so if anyone knows, let me know as well.


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## Carsten

Hmm

Are you sure? Anyone confirm please?

I dont know, why wouldnt Tivo confirm this? if it was real?


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## DCIFRTHS

spike2k5 said:


> ... Here is how you can add eSATA drive to TiVo S3:
> 
> Things you will need:
> S3 TiVo,
> eSATA drive and eSATA cable or (SATA drive and eSATA-> SATA cable)
> TiVo remote ...


Interesting post. Would you be able to post any screen shots of the procedure?

Thanks!


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## bdraw

Just verified it worked!!
Also on 8.1.1.


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## DCIFRTHS

bdraw said:


> Just verified it worked!!
> Also on 8.1.1.


What drive did you use (brand, size, etc.)?


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## windracer

What does the 62 kickstart do? I haven't heard of that one and it's not listed on this wiki page that I usually reference for the kickstart codes. Something new in the 8.x software?


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## spike2k5

windracer said:


> What does the 62 kickstart do? I haven't heard of that one and it's not listed on this wiki page that I usually reference for the kickstart codes. Something new in the 8.x software?


It seems to be new to S3.

It will let you add external SATA hard drive to your S3 Tivo. The biggest eSATA drive I've seen so far is 750GB so you can do 1TB of storage w/o opening your TiVo.

Just plug it in, do kickstart 62 and instant storage upgrade.


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## Carsten

Well if this does work then:

A. Boo to Tivo for not telling us! (unless its a accident that its there, highly unlikely)
B. What is a good External case for the Seagate 500gb hd?
C. Whats the max hdd it can take?


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## bdraw

I used a 120GB pocket drive that I built myself with my old MBP HDD and a case from newegg.


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## Redux

windracer said:


> What does the 62 kickstart do? I haven't heard of that one


It's been talked about a little bit on the other forum. Search sata.


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## musicforme

I imagine this is going to get more press in the next couple of days. It hit Engadget tonight. Screen shots are in the below link.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/04/how-to-use-your-tivo-series3-esata-port-to-add-an-external-driv/


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## bdraw

musicforme said:


> I imagine this is going to get more press in the next couple of days. It hit Engadget tonight. Screen shots are in the below link.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/04/how-to-use-your-tivo-series3-esata-port-to-add-an-external-driv/


Yeah, I work for Engadget, but they remove it from my sig even though I don't have a link there.

I took all those pics, but Ryan wrote it up since he didn't have a eSATA drive to test.


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## Fofer

spike2k5 said:


> It works only on unmodified original capacity "A" drive (250GB).
> So, if you have upgraded your TiVo drive already, the following procedure won't work.
> *If you still want to use eSATA port, let me know and I can point you to tools that can do that.*


Yes, please.


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## jwehman

Can someone confirm that it DOESN'T work on a modified S3? Great gadzooks, this is awesome news. I may have to put the original 250 back in and add an external 750!

Rgds,

jwehman


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## yunlin12

Did the Data field for cable card change after doing this?


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## supasta

jwehman said:


> Can someone confirm that it DOESN'T work on a modified S3? Great gadzooks, this is awesome news. I may have to put the original 250 back in and add an external 750!
> 
> Rgds,
> 
> jwehman


That was exactly my first thought...how many people are going to put their factory drive back in to do this...


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## lessd

supasta said:


> That was exactly my first thought...how many people are going to put their factory drive back in to do this...


From my point of view who needs another piece on equipment hanging off the Series 3, unless you really need more than 100 hours of HD storage. If you are good enough to use this port you can upgrade the original Series 3 with 750G drive for less than $300 now.


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## rodalpho

Fantastic! Nice work, spike2k5!


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## lcann44

I'm so friggin excited I don't know if I can wait until tommorow morning to try. Think it will work with 8.3? That's what I have. This is the most important thing I've been waiting for!


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## Redux

lessd said:


> who needs another piece on equipment hanging off the Series 3?


Well, the value here may be that interest has been aroused, maybe more smart people will be looking at the external, and eventually some way to actually use the external drive for storage flexibility may come out of this. Being able to swap external drives _would_ be a real big deal, and maybe that capability will flow from this.


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## DCIFRTHS

bdraw said:


> Yeah, I work for Engadget, but they remove it from my sig even though I don't have a link there.
> 
> I took all those pics, but Ryan wrote it up since he didn't have a eSATA drive to test.


Regarding the speculation that the S3 will record one show simultaneously to both drives doesn't seem logical to me - unless it was done for copy protection. The screens that are posted on Engadget make sense because you _obviously_ will lose recordings if you remove the external drive. The shows that lived on it, and any shows that span both drives.

I'm sure we'll hear more about this in the next few days from brave souls who try it... I'm too attached to my shows to try it


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## spike2k5

jwehman said:


> Can someone confirm that it DOESN'T work on a modified S3? Great gadzooks, this is awesome news. I may have to put the original 250 back in and add an external 750!
> 
> Rgds,
> 
> jwehman


It doesn't work with Kickstart 62 if you expanded it previously but there is another way.


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## jwehman

spike2k5 said:


> It doesn't work with Kickstart 62 if you expanded it previously but there is another way.


Would you care to enlighten these folks here?


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## windracer

Carsten said:


> A. Boo to Tivo for not telling us! (unless its a accident that its there, highly unlikely)


Well, using the kickstart procedure is not exactly a common practice that the average user would attempt. It's usually meant for maintenance and recovery. That's why I was surprised there was a code that would do an expand like this.

Also, look at those screenshots on Engadget. All of the new screens used in this procedure have a different font and are lengthy ... it doesn't seem like this feature is quite ready for primetime. It's almost like those are placeholder screens that will be properly "TiVo-ized" to have the same look-and-feel as the rest of the UI.


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## msu2k

Can someone please recommend an inexpensive eSATA enclosure? I'm assuming I'd need one to use with this drive: Seagate DB35 7200.3 Hard drive 500GB internal 3.5" SATA-II

http://www.excaliberpc.com/Seagate_DB35_7200.3_Hard_drive/ST3500830SCE/partinfo-id-574241.html


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## TivoInNY

Wow - this is GREAT. Thanks for posting!

My only hesitation is that Tivo will catch wind that people have figured it out (indeed, they likely already have), and shut eSATA down in a future software upgrade. If they do that, we could lose all of our recordings, couldn't we?


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## jazzsax

msu2k said:


> Can someone please recommend an inexpensive eSATA enclosure? I'm assuming I'd need one to use with this drive: Seagate DB35 7200.3 Hard drive 500GB internal 3.5" SATA-II


I got a decently priced enclosure from monoprice. About $35. I've only used it as a USB 2.0 hard drive, so I don't have any usage specs on the eSATA part.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10315&cs_id=1031501&p_id=2756&seq=1&format=2&style=


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## scottb4u

To all the experts: How do we get to activate the esata port on already expanded S3's?

We are waiting with baited breath!


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## spike2k5

scottb4u said:


> To all the experts: How do we get to activate the esata port on already expanded S3's?
> 
> We are waiting with baited breath!


I'm looking for *few* volunteers for beta testing.


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## msu2k

scottb4u said:


> To all the experts: How do we get to activate the esata port on already expanded S3's?
> 
> We are waiting with baited breath!


Here I sit with only my stock 250GB S3 drive and already you "expanders" are clamoring for even* more *storage space. Some people are so greedy!


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## jhimmel

lessd said:


> From my point of view who needs another piece on equipment hanging off the Series 3, unless you really need more than 100 hours of HD storage. If you are good enough to use this port you can upgrade the original Series 3 with 750G drive for less than $300 now.


From my point of view, if I wanted 750G of storage, I'd much rather spend $160 on a DB35 500G drive and add it to the existing 250G drive using eSATA. Plus, I don't have to open the case and play around with images, and potentially void my warranty. MY S3's are tucked away where I can't see them. I couldn't care less about the drive "hanging off". This is a much cheaper and more convenient option. A "no-brainer"


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## Fofer

spike2k5 said:


> I'm looking for *few* volunteers for beta testing.


I'd be interested in volunteering (currently have a 750 GB internal) -- just curious about what it entails. Would I need to open the S3 case again?


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## spike2k5

Fofer said:


> I'd be interested in volunteering (currently have a 750 GB internal) -- just curious about what it entails. Would I need to open the S3 case again?


Yes you will have to.


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## Carsten

Wonder if there is enough room to put the 2nd hard inside the Tivo. Then redirect the eSata inside and and use internal power.


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## Jack D

I just tried it with a Seagate "Free Agent Pro" 750 GB drive. This drive comes with its own external case and is supposed to be plug and play. It does have dual interface (USB and eSata).

It didn't work.

I think I followed the instructions properly:

I plugged in the drive to the T3 with the power plug on the T3 unplugged. Turned on the power to the external drive. Plugged in the T3 while pushing pause. Lights on T3 turned off as it was booting and then the small orange light came on. I then pushed "62" on the remote while pointing it at the T3.

The T3 just booted up as usual and no notification that a second drive had been actived. Drive capacity shows 32 hours so same as when I bought it.

Thoughts:

1. Does the sata drive have to be initialized with a computer first or is it ok to use it brand new with the T3?

2. Could it be that something about the dual interface of the Seagate is messing things up?

Anyone have any thoughts about what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks for help.

PS I've got FW 8.3.


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## DCIFRTHS

Jack D said:


> ... PS I've got FW 8.3.


I assume you mean software version 8.3 on the TiVo? If so, maybe this method of expanding space doesn't work on version 8.3 

EDIT: Have you verified that the cable is seated properly? Do you have an eSATA port on your computer to verify that it works properly on the PC?


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## Adam1115

DCIFRTHS said:


> I assume you mean software version 8.3 on the TiVo? If so, maybe this method of expanding space doesn't work on version 8.3
> 
> EDIT: Have you verified that the cable is seated properly? Do you have an eSATA port on your computer to verify that it works properly on the PC?


UH OH, has anyone confirmed this works with 8.3???


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## sriggins

Ok this ROCKS! I had bought two 500gb drives on sale from Frys waiting for the day when I buy a Mac Pro, but I'll gladly stick one on my TiVo if I can find a quality, affordable, QUIET eSata case.

Steve


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## erubenst28

First, thank you very much for this eSata workaround... it is a long time coming, and shame on Tivo for not enabling yet (especially for the early adopters who shelled out $800 the day these came out...)

I have 8.3.1. and it works great with the Seagate 500GB eSata external I picked up from Compusa today for $149. 

Sys info shows 927 SD hours and 98 HD hours...

However.... on one of my HD channels (YES network), the picture comes in for 3 seconds and then goes blank with the error flag:

"Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another input."

I assume this is an HDCP issue that is cropping up now that I am using an external drive through eSata... the other HD channels work fine... so far


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## spike2k5

> I just tried it with a Seagate "Free Agent Pro" 750 GB drive. This drive comes with its own external case and is supposed to be plug and play. It does have dual interface (USB and eSata).
> It didn't work.


I don't think Free Agent Pro comes with eSATA cable. 
Did you use usb cable to connect to TiVo?
You will have to use eSATA cable to eSATA port on S3 Tivo.


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## XBR

Jack D said:


> I just tried it with a Seagate "Free Agent Pro" 750 GB drive. This drive comes with its own external case and is supposed to be plug and play. It does have dual interface (USB and eSata).
> 
> It didn't work.
> 
> I think I followed the instructions properly:
> 
> I plugged in the drive to the T3 with the power plug on the T3 unplugged. Turned on the power to the external drive. Plugged in the T3 while pushing pause. Lights on T3 turned off as it was booting and then the small orange light came on. I then pushed "62" on the remote while pointing it at the T3.
> 
> The T3 just booted up as usual and no notification that a second drive had been actived. Drive capacity shows 32 hours so same as when I bought it.
> 
> Thoughts:
> 
> 1. Does the sata drive have to be initialized with a computer first or is it ok to use it brand new with the T3?
> 
> 2. Could it be that something about the dual interface of the Seagate is messing things up?
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts about what I'm doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks for help.
> 
> PS I've got FW 8.3.


I was thinking of getting a nicely integrated external hard drive like you did, but I was wary...they all seem to ship with a complementary data and drive management application ("one-touch" and such). You supposedly can do things like turn the LED off with the application; assuming kickstart 62 still works with 8.3, I wonder if there are any other "features" you can turn off with the application to get you on your way?


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## sriggins

erubenst28 said:


> and shame on Tivo for not enabling yet (


I find no shame towards TiVo - They may be legally bound to not enable it yet, and as you found, it may not work with some conten on the external due to these licensing limitations.

I am in a wait and hold pattern while you guys debug this


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## davezatz

500GB eSATA drive WITH cable for $135 shipped via NewEgg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822101030


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## erubenst28

sriggins said:


> I find no shame towards TiVo - They may be legally bound to not enable it yet, and as you found, it may not work with some conten on the external due to these licensing limitations.
> 
> I am in a wait and hold pattern while you guys debug this


On second thought... you are right... if its a licensing issue, it is out of Tivo's control... strange that only the YES Network (Yankees Channel) has the problem... could be a Red Sox conspiracy...

Anyone else with any HDCP issues?


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## TracySMiller

I tried it and couldn't get it to work. I followed the directions to the letter. I'm using the same drive I used successfully when I had an SA8300HD from Charter Cable. Could it be that I need to reformat this drive and try again? If so, is this possible by getting it out of its enclosure and popping into one of my computers? 

Thanks.


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## spike2k5

TracySMiller said:


> I tried it and couldn't get it to work. I followed the directions to the letter. I'm using the same drive I used successfully when I had an SA8300HD from Charter Cable. Could it be that I need to reformat this drive and try again? If so, is this possible by getting it out of its enclosure and popping into one of my computers?
> 
> Thanks.


You don't have to reformat. Kickstart 62 does quick TiVo reformat.

Is your "A" drive expanded?
Also, you have to point your remote with pause button until front panel goes black & orange LED come on. If you let go of pause button, orange LED should stay lit until you type in 62.


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## Carlos_E

TracySMiller said:


> I tried it and couldn't get it to work. I followed the directions to the letter. I'm using the same drive I used successfully when I had an SA8300HD from Charter Cable. Could it be that I need to reformat this drive and try again? If so, is this possible by getting it out of its enclosure and popping into one of my computers?
> 
> Thanks.


Do you have an SATA port on your computer?


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## TracySMiller

> Do you have an SATA port on your computer?


Unfortunately, no. Does that mean that I'll probably just need to buy a new eSATA drive?


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## Jack D

DCIFRTHS said:


> I assume you mean software version 8.3 on the TiVo? If so, maybe this method of expanding space doesn't work on version 8.3
> 
> EDIT: Have you verified that the cable is seated properly? Do you have an eSATA port on your computer to verify that it works properly on the PC?


Sorry I thought this thread was dead after I posted and reposted on the other thread on this topic so this is running in paralell.

Anyway, Yes I have 8.3 on the T3. Yes I'm pretty sure the cable is seated properly. Yes I used the same drive and cable with my PC and it worked fine.


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## TracySMiller

spike2k5 said:


> You don't have to reformat. Kickstart 62 does quick TiVo reformat.
> 
> Is your "A" drive expanded?
> Also, you have to point your remote with pause button until front panel goes black & orange LED come on. If you let go of pause button, orange LED should stay lit until you type in 62.


I have not yet expanded. And as far as I can tell I followed these instructions properly. I got the orange LED and typed 62, and it rebooted, but I get no screen telling me it recognized a new drive, and a check of the capacity revealed the same 32 HD hours as before.


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## Jack D

spike2k5 said:


> I don't think Free Agent Pro comes with eSATA cable.
> Did you use usb cable to connect to TiVo?
> You will have to use eSATA cable to eSATA port on S3 Tivo.


no it doesn't come with the eSata cable but I had one I was using on another drive with my PC. Thx.


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## Jack D

spike2k5 said:


> You don't have to reformat. Kickstart 62 does quick TiVo reformat.
> 
> Is your "A" drive expanded?
> Also, you have to point your remote with pause button until front panel goes black & orange LED come on. If you let go of pause button, orange LED should stay lit until you type in 62.


Hmmm. In my case, I keep the "pause" button pushed, the front panel goes black after a little while, then the orange light comes on and I release the "pause" button. BUT the orange light does not stay on. What could I be doing wrong???


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## Jack D

XBR said:


> I was thinking of getting a nicely integrated external hard drive like you did, but I was wary...they all seem to ship with a complementary data and drive management application ("one-touch" and such). You supposedly can do things like turn the LED off with the application; assuming kickstart 62 still works with 8.3, I wonder if there are any other "features" you can turn off with the application to get you on your way?


Well I wiped the partition so there should not be anything left on the hard drive to get in the way of the T3 recognizing it.


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## Jack D

spike2k5 said:


> Is your "A" drive expanded?


Spike,
What do you mean by this? thx


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## keenanSR

Jack D said:


> Spike,
> What do you mean by this? thx


Have you changed it out to something larger than the original stock drive is what he's asking, I think.


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## spike2k5

Jack D said:


> Spike,
> What do you mean by this? thx


I was asking if you have an unmodifed, unhacked, factory hard drive in your S3 Tivo.


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## Jack D

keenanSR said:


> Have you changed it out to something larger than the original stock drive is what he's asking, I think.


Oh. No I have the original. thx


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## lcann44

FWIW I not only added an 300mb eSATA succesfully with 8.3, I also disconnected it and did NOT lose any of my recordings on my original hard drive. I then hooked up a 500gb Seagate eSATA with enclosure as well.

I admit I was very worried when I disconnected the first eSATA but it was giving me a flashing a yellow light at me 8 times and stop and I could not find out what that error message meant. So I took a chance. I now have 98 hours HD and 927 SD hours. How sweet it is. Thanks again spike2k5. :up:


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## sriggins

I ordered a WiebeTech enclosure, as it has shock dampening and I have been very very pleased with their FW800 cases. $48 incl shipping:

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/toughtech.php


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## sriggins

lcann44 said:


> FWIW I not only added an 300mb eSATA succesfully with 8.3


Hey when did you get 8.3


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## bkdtv

sriggins said:


> I ordered a WiebeTech enclosure, as it has shock dampening and I have been very very pleased with their FW800 cases. $48 incl shipping:
> 
> http://www.wiebetech.com/products/toughtech.php


Keep in mind that extra interface controllers -- as typically used to provide Firewire and/or USB output from a SATA drive -- tend to degrade disk performance / responsiveness.

If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.


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## sriggins

bkdtv said:


> Keep in mind that extra interface controllers -- as typically used to provide Firewire and/or USB output from a SATA drive -- tend to degrade disk performance / responsiveness.
> 
> If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.


Thanks - The case I ordered is eSata only, it has no bridge chipset according to the specs (TTE-0)

Steve


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## ZeoTiVo

windracer said:


> Well, using the kickstart procedure is not exactly a common practice that the average user would attempt. It's usually meant for maintenance and recovery. That's why I was surprised there was a code that would do an expand like this.


seems kind of like the 30 sec skip. Not officially supported but hey - if you wnat to use it at your own risk, who are we to stop you  :up: :up: :up:


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## jfh3

bkdtv said:


> If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.


Any recommendations?


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## keenanSR

Posted in the other thread as well:

I ended up getting a different drive. I went with the Seagate 500GB External Drive eSATA 3.0. Model No. ST3500601XS-RK

http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...product_code=341441&Pn=eSATA_500GB_Hard_Drive
CompUSA.com: Seagate eSATA 500GB Hard Drive - ST3500601XS-RK - Computer Upgrades » Hard Drives

It was $162 out the door, there was some sort of $20 discount program, plus it comes with a 6' eSATA cable.

Works perfect! 

Used with 8.3.1


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## bkdtv

jfh3 said:


> Any recommendations?


I haven't shopped for an enclosure in awhile, so I'm not familiar with all the choices. Just be sure to avoid units with USB and/or Firewire connections, because that means they run the signal through an extra controller, degrading performance. You want a unit with an eSATA port and nothing else.

The WiebeTech ToughTech TTE-0 referenced above sounds like it would be a good option, but I'm sure there are plenty of others that would fit the bill as well.


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## bkdtv

I have heard positive things about enclosures from Apricorn, but I'm not sure if they still make a SATA-only model It looks like their latest models all use a separate interface with a USB port.


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## Cormode

bkdtv said:


> I haven't shopped for an enclosure in awhile, so I'm not familiar with all the choices. Just be sure to avoid units with USB and/or Firewire connections, because that means they run the signal through an extra controller, degrading performance. You want a unit with an eSATA port and nothing else.
> 
> The WiebeTech ToughTech TTE-0 referenced above sounds like it would be a good option, but I'm sure there are plenty of others that would fit the bill as well.


Not necessarily true. I have a vantec enclosure with esata and usb. The wiring from the drive "T"s so the esata port sees the drive interface directly even though there is a USB bridge chip as well.


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

I wonder if a eSATA RAID 5 with 4 SATA 1TB Drives would work if the extenal case had a build-in RAID controller?

Then it could give us 3TB of data with RAID 5.


----------



## bkdtv

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I wonder if a eSATA RAID 5 with 4 SATA 1TB Drives would work if the extenal case had a build-in RAID controller?
> 
> Then it could give us 3TB of data with RAID 5.


My understanding from previous posts is that the Series3 currently supports a maximum of 1Tb per drive, i.e. 1Tb for the internal and 1Tb for the external.


----------



## bkdtv

Cormode said:


> Not necessarily true. I have a vantec enclosure with esata and usb. The wiring from the drive "T"s so the esata port sees the drive interface directly even though there is a USB bridge chip as well.


Good to know. Thanks.


----------



## jstevenson

Hey all,

Got the Maxtor drive and Vantec enclosure previously referenced as a combo that works. Hooked it all up, and re-booted the TiVo. I held pause and got the light, when I pressed 62 the orange light disappeared. It then would hit the "Just a Few Minutes more" screen... but shortly after that it would then reboot back to the "Powering up" screen and all the icons would light up again.

So not exactly sure what's wrong... any ideas?

JS


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

bkdtv said:


> My understanding from previous posts is that the Series3 currently supports a maximum of 1Tb per drive, i.e. 1Tb for the internal and 1Tb for the external.


I hope they upgrade the kernal to support a larger volume.


----------



## Cormode

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I hope they upgrade the kernal to support a larger volume.


The kernel isn't the problem, but nearly every bit of code that touches anything within the MFS. To address a position in 2 TB array requires a 32 unsigned integer. Most of the tivo application package (and the design of the MFS itself) is built around 32 bit addressing. There are apparently a few places where the code referencing individual volumes is a signed 32 bit integer, meaning it can only address 1 TB.

The 2 TB / 1TB limit is the Y2K of the Tivo. To allow addressing larger spaces would require 64 bit integers. To implement this would require a great deal of effort on the part of Tivo programmers. Every addressing reference needs to be found and updated, then tested and other errors in logic discovered and fixed. I suspect it will happen eventually, but don't expect it ever for the S3.


----------



## Bighouse

This is all exciting news, but I'm wondering what impact it will have...

Will TiVo Inc. somehow pull the plug on this leak by somehow further disabling this new found ability to hookup an external drive until they're ready (i.e. they have "approval" from Cablelabs) or until they can get some proprietary external drive ready for release (like their wifi adapter)?

I'd run out today and get a drive, but I'm concerned that in a few days it might be rendered obsoltete!


----------



## spike2k5

Bighouse said:


> This is all exciting news, but I'm wondering what impact it will have...
> 
> Will TiVo Inc. somehow pull the plug on this leak by somehow further disabling this new found ability to hookup an external drive until they're ready (i.e. they have "approval" from Cablelabs) or until they can get some proprietary external drive ready for release (like their wifi adapter)?
> 
> I'd run out today and get a drive, but I'm concerned that in a few days it might be rendered obsoltete!


To disable kickstart 62, it's simple to do so they can release a software update to disable this quickly. But there are other ways to enable eSATA so why bother.

To disable eSATA port, they have to tweak the way things work so it will take awhile to implement, test and release a new version. Lots of resources to devote unless they are force to do so due to whatever laws are out there.
Also remember that recorded shows on eSATA drive are encrypted and married to your TiVo. So you can't just unplug and move it to anther TiVo or computer and play recorded shows.

Once eSATA is initized and married to your internal drive, it will continue to work whether they disable kickstart 62 or not. They can issue a software update to force a hard divorce but you can disable software updates and block this. Then they can force poeple to get a software update and we can counter that and cycle continues...
Bottom line is why would they go to extra miles to upset people and generate thousands of support calls.

I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.

Just my 2 cents....


----------



## davezatz

spike2k5 said:


> I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.


I hope they enhance it... turn it on by default, improve those informations screens and fonts, and then sell branded eSATA drives as an _option_ with the little TiVo guy logo. They'll make a few bucks, and I'll get a cool accessory.


----------



## lcann44

spike2k5 said:


> Once eSATA is initized and married to your internal drive, it will continue to work whether they disable kickstart 62 or not. They can issue a software update to force a hard divorce but you can disable software updates and block this. Then they can force poeple to get a software update and we can counter that and cycle continues...
> Bottom line is why would they go to extra miles to upset people and generate thousands of support calls.
> 
> I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.
> 
> Just my 2 cents....


I'm curious. What other ways are there to enable esata?

And I totally agree that to disable it now would not be to their advantage and wouldn't make any sense at this point. And as you pointed out the two drives are married so it really doesn't make any sense to disable.

Anyway, I thought I read that CableLabs had given the green light on the eSATA thing. Is this not so?


----------



## Carsten

spike2k5 said:


> To disable kickstart 62, it's simple to do so they can release a software update to disable this quickly. But there are other ways to enable eSATA so why bother.
> 
> To disable eSATA port, they have to tweak the way things work so it will take awhile to implement, test and release a new version. Lots of resources to devote unless they are force to do so due to whatever laws are out there.
> Also remember that recorded shows on eSATA drive are encrypted and married to your TiVo. So you can't just unplug and move it to anther TiVo or computer and play recorded shows.
> 
> Once eSATA is initized and married to your internal drive, it will continue to work whether they disable kickstart 62 or not. They can issue a software update to force a hard divorce but you can disable software updates and block this. Then they can force poeple to get a software update and we can counter that and cycle continues...
> Bottom line is why would they go to extra miles to upset people and generate thousands of support calls.
> 
> I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.
> 
> Just my 2 cents....


May I ask how long you knew of this hack. I googled your name and you came up on the ************ forums. I did notice that Narf posted the Kickstart 62 but no one really made it clear that with that you could force the thing to enable the eSata. I'ved noticed the kickstart 62 along time ago just didnt know you could get it to work on a orginal S3 (never invesitgated, my fault).

What other ways can you activate the eSata?


----------



## rodalpho

Cormode said:


> The 2 TB / 1TB limit is the Y2K of the Tivo.


That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think? 1TB is enough for 120 hours of HD, which is _way_ more than most consumers actually need. Certainly more than I need, for one.


----------



## spike2k5

Carsten said:


> May I ask how long you knew of this hack. I googled your name and you came up on the ************ forums. I did notice that Narf posted the Kickstart 62 but no one really made it clear that with that you could force the thing to enable the eSata. I'ved noticed the kickstart 62 along time ago just didnt know you could get it to work on a orginal S3 (never invesitgated, my fault).
> 
> What other ways can you activate the eSata?


It really doesn't matter who discovered it first. If you discovered it first, I give you full credit. I discovered it recently working on updated mfstools. (Mfslive.org)

I posted on the other forum as well while searching if anyone has annouced it already but didn't see it so posted there as well to let their folks know it's out there.

There are 3 ways that I know of "kickstart 62" being the easiest way.
More details to follow when ready.


----------



## Cormode

rodalpho said:


> That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think? 1TB is enough for 120 hours of HD, which is _way_ more than most consumers actually need. Certainly more than I need, for one.


This was an analogy not a description.

What I meant was: Just like Y2K is easy to identify WHY the 1TB exists and just like Y2K creating a fix is a LOT of work that only Tivo Inc. programmers can do.


----------



## Carsten

spike2k5 said:


> It really doesn't matter who discovered it first. If you discovered it first, I give you full credit. I discovered it recently working on updated mfstools. (Mfslive.org)
> 
> I posted on the other forum as well while searching if anyone has annouced it already but didn't see it so posted there as well to let their folks know it's out there.
> 
> There are 3 ways that I know of "kickstart 62" being the easiest way.
> More details to follow when ready.


Dont get me wrong. For me your the one that found it because you announced it hehehe.


----------



## Adam1115

rodalpho said:


> That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think? 1TB is enough for 120 hours of HD, which is _way_ more than most consumers actually need. Certainly more than I need, for one.


_Way_ more, right this second, but there are only a handful of HD channels other than OTA.

Once the cable channels start going HD, 120 hours is certainly NOT a lot of hours. I have a couple hundred hours of SD on my TiVo now.


----------



## rodalpho

I dunno, I had a S1 with a 120GB drive from 2000-2006, recording on high or medium quality depending on the show, and I never had space issues. I would have entire seasons of shows like 24 on my TiVo and watch them at my leisure. Just seems like it isn't that much of an issue. Not that options are bad; certainly prices will come down and I can envision 2TB drives costing $300 in 2009, but it just isn't a major concern at the moment.


----------



## clark_kent

hello to all, i wanted to try this out but i can't plug my sata cable into the tivo.**is there a difference in an "external" vs "internal" sata connector?**i only have "internal" sata cables on hand.**thanks.


----------



## rodalpho

Yes, they are different physical plugs but are electrically identical. You can get a converter cable if you need one for $10 or so.


----------



## jstevenson

jstevenson said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Got the Maxtor drive and Vantec enclosure previously referenced as a combo that works. Hooked it all up, and re-booted the TiVo. I held pause and got the light, when I pressed 62 the orange light disappeared. It then would hit the "Just a Few Minutes more" screen... but shortly after that it would then reboot back to the "Powering up" screen and all the icons would light up again.
> 
> So not exactly sure what's wrong... any ideas?
> 
> JS


Just to update my situation, I swapped out for one of the Seagate Free Agent Pros today and it is not working with my TiVo either. Tried unplugging it, firing up the hard drive, plugging the TiVo back in, got to the point where I put 62 in and then it reboots from scratch and I can either do the pause+62 procedure again (causing another reboot) or I can let it finish in which case the drive doesn't work.

So either my eSATA port on my Tivo doesn't work, or there is some other issue.

Running 8.3 and have never replaced the internal drive.


----------



## lcann44

jstevenson said:


> Just to update my situation, I swapped out for one of the Seagate Free Agent Pros today and it is not working with my TiVo either. Tried unplugging it, firing up the hard drive, plugging the TiVo back in, got to the point where I put 62 in and then it reboots from scratch and I can either do the pause+62 procedure again (causing another reboot) or I can let it finish in which case the drive doesn't work.
> 
> So either my eSATA port on my Tivo doesn't work, or there is some other issue.
> 
> Running 8.3 and have never replaced the internal drive.


When I first tried it it didn't work for me. Actually I had my wife hold the remote on pause and she punched in the code when the red light came on. I know she did it correctly, but I decided to do it myself and it worked. Not just once, twice since I decided to get a drive with more space. I actually unmarried it, didn't lose programming and installed the new drive a Seagate 500gb internal in a external enclosure. Worked just fine.

So I would guess that if you are following directions, there may indeed be a problem with your eSATA port.


----------



## rainwater

bkdtv said:


> Keep in mind that extra interface controllers -- as typically used to provide Firewire and/or USB output from a SATA drive -- tend to degrade disk performance / responsiveness.
> 
> If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.


Why do you need high performance for a Tivo drive used to store recordings. The S2 works just fine on a 5400 RPM ide drive. I don't see why the S3 would be any different with regards to low performance requirements for the external SATA drive.


----------



## sfhub

rainwater said:


> Why do you need high performance for a Tivo drive used to store recordings. The S2 works just fine on a 5400 RPM ide drive. I don't see why the S3 would be any different with regards to low performance requirements for the external SATA drive.


This is not a comment on whether the performance of a particular enclosure or drive is sufficient, just an observation of what the units are doing.

TiVo S3 HD recordings are typically 8GB/hr. TiVo S2 SD recordings are typically 1GB/hr. TiVo S3 is dual tuner. If you record 2 HD shows and playback 1 HD show, you need to write 16GB/hr and simultaneously read 8GB/hr.

All this may be well within the capabilities of a 5400rpm IDE (or not), but clearly the S3 is doing more than an S2 so I don't think it makes sense to use the lesser to justify the greater.

Instead you should use the actual requirements of an S3 and compare to the performance capabilities of the drive and enclosure combo.


----------



## RickyMac

I just connected a Seagate FreeAgent Pro, 500 Gig, External, Powered Drive, (5 year limited warranty). I followed the instructions at the beginning of this thread and it worked!!

My system now reads 98 HD and 927 SD - WOW.

It's nice to see that TIVO does update their products. Now all we need is to be able to transfer our recordings like our S2s.

Note: Sam's has this drive for $177 w/o the eSATA cable.

Have A Great Day....Rick


----------



## jfh3

RickyMac said:


> I just connected a Seagate FreeAgent Pro,


Does the power switch status stay in the on position after it loses power?


----------



## gteague

reporting success with the nexstar3 and a maxline diamond 500gb drive. unmodified s3 running v8.3x. 98h-hd/927h-sd. what fun!

btw, i found that you don't need to unplug the tivo. just do a menu reset and be quick on the pause button. i missed putting in the '62' fast enough the first time and had to restart 3 times to finally get it to work.

with my setup--room temp and a/v cabinet--i just hope that lack of a fan doesn't cook the drive. i will be monitoring it closely. and i'm glad i got an enclosure with such a bright activity light so i can tell when i/o is taking place.

/guy


----------



## JerryL

When you add the esata drive and use kickstart 62 to reboot, do you lose any programs on the original tivo drive that were recorded earlier?


----------



## spike2k5

JerryL said:


> When you add the esata drive and use kickstart 62 to reboot, do you lose any programs on the original tivo drive that were recorded earlier?


No


----------



## Fofer

JerryL said:


> When you add the esata drive and use kickstart 62 to reboot, do you lose any programs on the original tivo drive that were recorded earlier?


I am wondering the same about the procedure for adding an eSATA drive to an already upgraded S3 (whose details will hopefully/eventually emerge, fingers crossed.)


----------



## spike2k5

Fofer said:


> I am wondering the same about the procedure for adding an eSATA drive to an already upgraded S3 (whose details will hopefully/eventually emerge, fingers crossed.)


You won't loose recordings on the internal drive either, using method #2.
Built-in divorce seems to divorce only eSATA drive as well so your expand capacity on interal drive is kept.


----------



## expmag

I see where a method #2 is mentioned, but I do not see how to add the eSata drive if the internal drive has already been upgraded. I have an eSata that was used when I had a comcast dvr. If this is not possible, can I put back the original series 3 drive and then add the external eSata drive?


----------



## spike2k5

expmag said:


> I see where a method #2 is mentioned, but I do not see how to add the eSata drive if the internal drive has already been upgraded. I have an eSata that was used when I had a comcast dvr. If this is not possible, can I put back the original series 3 drive and then add the external eSata drive?


Yes you can. 
Currently, method 2 is being beta tested. 
If you don't mind loosing your recordings on your expanded drive, you can put back your original internal drive and add an eSATA drive.


----------



## Lost Pup

Another confirmation of a stock Tivo Series 3 upgraded with the Seagate 750G External Free Agent Pro purchased from Best Buy. Esata cable from Amazon.

Upgraded perfectly. No problems to report.


----------



## sfhub

spike2k5 said:


> - Power on eSATA device.
> 
> - Power on TiVo
> 
> *- Point TiVo remote to S3 tivo with pause (yellow) button pressed
> 
> - keep on pressing pause button until, all the lights go out on the front panel.*
> 
> - Shortly after that, you will see single orange LED light on the front panel.


Might I make a suggestion to save people from Carpel Tunnel of the thumb.

When TiVo S3 boots, the LED panel is completely lit with 2 red record LEDs on the left, TiVo symbol in the middle, and blue & orange LEDs on the right.

The window when you actually need to push and hold pause (to initiate kickstart) is immediately after the 2 red record LEDs go out.

Any earlier pauses are just for thumb exercising


----------



## gteague

sfhub said:


> Might I make a suggestion to save people from Carpel Tunnel of the thumb.
> 
> When TiVo S3 boots, the LED panel is completely lit with 2 red record LEDs on the left, TiVo symbol in the middle, and blue & orange LEDs on the right.
> 
> The window when you actually need to push and hold pause (to initiate kickstart) is immediately after the 2 red record LEDs go out.
> 
> Any earlier pauses are just for thumb exercising


i didn't know that, but i did discover that in my case only a soft reboot (menu restart) is needed, not necessarily a power reset.

/guy


----------



## kmsarno

My 100% good experience:

Enclosure - Vantec/Nexstar NST-360 with both eSATA and USB2
Drive: Seagate 400GB ST3400833AS
both purchased new from Newegg.

Using advice on this thread, I installed the drive with a soft reboot (no power cycle) and a single touch of the pause key on the remote when the red recording LED's went off (no holding anything down). Typed 62, waited through a reboot and 5 minutes or so, and system now shows 85 HD hours (was 35 with unhacked 250GB internal drive).

No problems, I'm happy.

One more observation wrt dual eSATA and USB interfaces. This is certainly not a guarantee of anything, but as far as I can see after closely examining the enclosure, the USB bridge chip is connected to the eSATA cable in parallel with the eSATA connector on the back of the enclosure. That is, it appears to be an electrical passthrough and I don't expect any performance hit.

Thanks to all for posting this great info.

--Ken S.


----------



## JerryL

Do I need to format my Seagate drive before I hook it up to the TIVO or does the TIVO software format it for me when I hook it up?


----------



## Jack D

JerryL said:


> Do I need to format my Seagate drive before I hook it up to the TIVO or does the TIVO software format it for me when I hook it up?


No, the TIVO does it during the activation process.


----------



## sriggins

Darn! I shipped my wiebetech case/card combo to my old address, so i have to pick it up tonight.


----------



## jlib

sriggins said:


> I ordered a WiebeTech enclosure, as it has shock dampening and I have been very very pleased with their FW800 cases. $48 incl shipping:
> 
> http://www.wiebetech.com/products/toughtech.php





> _From the specs: ToughTech has an all aluminum design meant to draw heat away from the hard drive. The entire product acts like a heat dissipater, helping to keep your drive cool. *And because it doesn't need a fan, ToughTech is quiet.* _


 Ah, a manufacturer that actually "gets it."


----------



## jlib

spike2k5 said:


> Looks like external SATA (eSATA) port on TiVo S3 can be activated...





Code:


       o         "We're not worthy, we're not worthy"  
      <|\      o__
     _/ \_    _/  \_ 
   spike2k5


----------



## flyerman

I have an unmodified Series 3 that I tried a few times this method to get my 500GB drive to work. It does not seem to be recognized? I do have data on the drive but i didn' thought that was ok because the TIVO will format it? Any thoughts? Please.


----------



## oldnacl

spike2k5 said:


> You don't have to reformat. Kickstart 62 does quick TiVo reformat.
> 
> Is your "A" drive expanded?
> Also, you have to point your remote with pause button until front panel goes black & orange LED come on. If you let go of pause button, orange LED should stay lit until you type in 62.


I tried the method with a drive used previously on a SA8300HD and was unsuccessful. Tried a second drive (also used previously on another SA8300HD) and again no joy. I connected the drive to my PC via USB and using Partition Magic, created an NTFS partition and formatted it, then deleted the partition. Hooked it to the TiVo and it worked. Haven't retried the first drive as I only needed one. Thanks to all for this improvement.


----------



## spike2k5

For those of you having problems, check this thread out.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824

Cable problem!


----------



## gadgetrex

Thanks for the tip about the cable problem (ends being too short to make necessary contacts). After trimming my cable, I was able to get my Seagate Free Agent Pro (750GB) to work. Interestingly, my system did not reboot immediately following my entry of the kickstart 62 (and I figured that I was going to have to give up for the night), but the system continued booting and ultimately showed me the second drive message. For those interested, Fry's has the 750GB drive on sale in the store for $239 until 5/15.


----------



## XBR

Did Fry's also carry the ESATA cable (that you had to trim)?


----------



## gadgetrex

Yes, I also purchased the cable at Frys. I'll probably end up getting another one, though, since the only eSATA to eSATA cable they had was 6 feet long, which leaves me with way too much. Apart from the problem with the connector, the cable otherwise seems well built and seemed reasonably priced at $12.99.


----------



## chipbandit

AZiO ENC311SU31 3.5" eSATA + USB 2.0 External Enclosure - Retail 
Item #: N82E16817106098 

Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5000YS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM 
Item #: N82E16822136032 
i just got both items in yesterday and I put it all together hooked up to my s3 tivo and it works i now have 927sd hours and 98hd hours and it only cost $189.00 dollars for the extra drive and a few minutes of work to do it 
cool business


----------



## flyerman

I have looked at my cable and it seems to be the good one with the penny covering half of the connector but I still can't get TIVO to recognize the drive. I am going to get the 750GB drive from newegg for $239. Does everyone have the latest update from TIVO and it still works with this method?


----------



## alyssa

chipbandit said:


> AZiO ENC311SU31 3.5" eSATA + USB 2.0 External Enclosure - Retail
> Item #: N82E16817106098
> 
> Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5000YS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
> Item #: N82E16822136032
> i just got both items in yesterday and I put it all together hooked up to my s3 tivo and it works i now have 927sd hours and 98hd hours and it only cost $189.00 dollars for the extra drive and a few minutes of work to do it
> cool business


Let me know how that enclosure works for you. I've got one on order from Newegg but am a tad bit concerned about the heat build up.


----------



## richsadams

Just an FYI regarding power loss on my external drive .

I was repositioning my eSATA drive and accidentally disconnected the power cord.  TiVo happened to be recording two programs at the time. One was on an HD channel, the other an SD channel. (I didn't have the TV on at the moment.) The drive was off for about 30 seconds.

I reconnected the power cord and the drive came back on. I turned the TV on and both programs were still there, still recording. I viewed both programs after they had finished. At the moment that I disconnected the drive (about 18 minutes in) both programs lost audio and pixilated for a moment and then both resumed as normal...with the 30 seconds of the show missing. It's as if they had been edited.

Conclusion? Not sure.  It would seem that the external drive can be "lost", at least for a little while, without any real damage being done. It also appears that both programs may have been being saved to the external drive...OR that no matter what drive they are being saved to losing power to the eSATA drive will affect the recording of a program.

Guess more tests are in order. Anybody? Anybody? 

Also of note, I've exchanged a couple of e-mails with Apricorn (the maker of my eSATA drive) and Chris has responded immediately. I asked them what drives they were using for their DVR Xpander (WD) and another unrelated question. Chris got back to me with full answers right away. They are a little more expensive than a DIY solution, but based on their customer service, previous use of their products and the flawless install of this eSATA drive on our TiVo S3 I can still highly recommend them. :up:


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...It would seem that the external drive can be "lost", at least for a little while, without any real damage being done...


Wow, that is great news regarding the S3's inherent robustness with an external drive. Or to paraphrase Winston Churchhill: "There is nothing so exhilarating to be shot at to no effect."


----------



## rudolpht

Is there any more info on adding a drive to a modified S3. Drive showing up in AM. Assume I power down Tivo connect then power up external and do NOT do the kickstart 62?

Sound right?

Tim


----------



## Gene Plantz

I just install the Cavalry 500GB drive on my stock S3.

For some reason, it did not "take" on the first attempt. I held the pause button (for what seemed like forever) until I got the orange LED and entered 62. It booted up and nothing had changed.

So, I did it again.... I think exactly the same but it worked the second time.

The Cavalry drive comes with the proper cable and everything you need. I was (am) hesitant about previous comments in this forum about this drive (which were voiced after I placed the order) but decided to try connecting it anyway.


----------



## softwall

Just Installed Seagate 750GB drive with Antech, Veris enclosure, Tivo ver 8.31. Works Great 1st Time!! No loss of programming. Enclosure came with correct cable, has fan and power switch, and is very quiet.

Remember, Connect Correct ESATA cable(long connectors), Restart Tivo, wait for Red LEDs to go out, Orange LED on, Type 62, Sit back and enjoy.

Thanks Spike 2K5. Excellent work.


----------



## Percipient

Thought I'd add my own experience. I ordered an Apricorn EZ Bus Desktop 750GB from NewEgg for $361.13 including shipping and handling. I just installed it and it works fine. It comes with the proper eSATA-II cables, and the fan seems very quiet.

Apricorn has a new product that looks to be the identical unit, but they're calling it a DVR Xpander. It costs $399 (excluding shipping and handling), and the specs don't mention a USB interface, only eSATA. Some have claimed that the dual interface of eSATA and USB delivers less performance, but if that's so it doesn't appear to be a problem when working with the TiVo.

I'm seen so many thank you's over the years that maybe yet another is just redundant, but I just want to say that I'm as pleased and pleasantly surprised this year at what the TiVo underground can do as when I first upgraded my series 1 in 1999. I still have my "Dylan's Boot Disk" floppy as a memento. Heck, I still have the series 1 TiVo itself, my daughter uses it now.

--Percy


----------



## JerryL

I very strange problem has developed with my Tivo since I upgraded my unit. I have Verizon Fios and the hi def picture on HBO is unwatchable. It is very pixelated. This is the only station that has this problem. On my other hi def Moto boxes the signal is perfect. I don't think it is the new Seagate hard drive or I assume it would be be bad on every station. Could it have something to do with the Esata cable or maybe some anticopy code on HBO that isn't on the other stations


----------



## jon96cobra

Just got my Maxtor 500GB Serial ATA/300 from frys can I use ATA interfaces- 3.0 Gb/sec or do I need to set it to 1.5Gb/sec?


----------



## MichaelK

erubenst28 said:


> First, thank you very much for this eSata workaround... it is a long time coming, and shame on Tivo for not enabling yet (especially for the early adopters who shelled out $800 the day these came out...)
> 
> I have 8.3.1. and it works great with the Seagate 500GB eSata external I picked up from Compusa today for $149.
> 
> Sys info shows 927 SD hours and 98 HD hours...
> 
> However.... on one of my HD channels (YES network), the picture comes in for 3 seconds and then goes blank with the error flag:
> 
> "Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another input."
> 
> I assume this is an HDCP issue that is cropping up now that I am using an external drive through eSata... the other HD channels work fine... so far


anyone else see this problem with hdmi/hdcp problems because of the external drives- this seems to be the only case I have seen so I'm wondering if it was just a coincidence?


----------



## richsadams

erubenst28 said:


> First, thank you very much for this eSata workaround... it is a long time coming, and shame on Tivo for not enabling yet (especially for the early adopters who shelled out $800 the day these came out...
> 
> However.... on one of my HD channels (YES network), the picture comes in for 3 seconds and then goes blank with the error flag:
> 
> "Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another input."
> 
> I assume this is an HDCP issue that is cropping up now that I am using an external drive through eSata... the other HD channels work fine... so far





MichaelK said:


> anyone else see this problem with hdmi/hdcp problems because of the external drives- this seems to be the only case I have seen so I'm wondering if it was just a coincidence?


 I haven't heard of this either but we use TiVo's component video connections on our S3 (which has an eSATA drive). I'd suggest the OP try using the component video output in lieu of HDMI to see if that clears up the problem. I understand that hdcp (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) coding is sent via HDMI but cannot be sent via component connections. I'm not clear on how an eSATA drive would impact this however.

And before an argument starts up over pure digital (HDMI/DVI) Vs analog (component - Y,Pr,Pb) signals, I'll defer to the experts. Here is a fairly well thought out comparison of the two:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html - If you don't want to read it all, skip to the last paragraph for their conclusion.

I'm a bit of a purest (to my wife's annoyance sometimes  ) and am always looking for the best (picture, sound, etc.). We've tried both HDMI and component connections and really cannot tell the difference on our 42" LCD flat panel. That being the case we've opted for a direct component connection from TiVo to our TV. Oh, and optical audio wins hands down.


----------



## spike2k5

jon96cobra said:


> Just got my Maxtor 500GB Serial ATA/300 from frys can I use ATA interfaces- 3.0 Gb/sec or do I need to set it to 1.5Gb/sec?


SATA 3.0 GB should be fine.


----------



## 1283

My guess is that TiVo's SATA ports are 1.5G only. Does anyone know for sure?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

There's a bit in the instructions that could use a little clarification. Where it says:

- keep on pressing pause button until, all the lights go out on the front panel.

...some people (myself included) interpret that as meaning once the lights go out, you can let go of the pause button.


----------



## spike2k5

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There's a bit in the instructions that could use a little clarification. Where it says:
> 
> - keep on pressing pause button until, all the lights go out on the front panel.
> 
> ...some people (myself included) interpret that as meaning once the lights go out, you can let go of the pause button.


I agree.

I'm kind of tied up working on a new mfslive release but instructions with pictures will be coming.


----------



## jon96cobra

spike2k5 said:


> SATA 3.0 GB should be fine.


Thanks I will give it a try this weekend and see. I will try 3.0 gb and report back with my findings.

Using a Maxtor 500GB Serial ATA/300 in a Rosewill RX353-S BLK Rigid Aluminum Body and ABS plastic panel 3.5" eSATA enclosure.


----------



## moxie1617

c3 said:


> My guess is that TiVo's SATA ports are 1.5G only. Does anyone know for sure?


If someone who has replaced their internal drive can look to see if the original drive is a 3.0 gbs drive and if it is, was the jumper installed to force 1.5 gbs? At least we would know that we don't have to worry about forcing the drive to do 1.5gbs.

I've had an unjumpered DB35(3.0gbs) installed externally for 1 day now with no issues.


----------



## 1283

moxie1617 said:


> If someone who has replaced their internal drive can look to see if the original drive is a 3.0 gbs drive and if it is, was the jumper installed to force 1.5 gbs? At least we would know that we don't have to worry about forcing the drive to do 1.5gbs.


3G devices are supposed to auto negotiate the rate, so the jumper is there to solve compatibility problems only. Therefore, we still don't know whether the established link is 1.5G or 3G. The speed can be easily checked with a SATA analyzer, but I don't have access to one at my current job. The factory internal drive can handle 3G, and the 1.5G jumper is not connected.


----------



## moxie1617

That's good news. So should the S3 only be using the 1.5G transfer rate we don't have to force a 3.0G e-sata drive to 1.5G. However, your original question hasn't been answered. But thanks for helping me with mine.


----------



## MacGuruTX

MichaelK said:


> anyone else see this problem with hdmi/hdcp problems because of the external drives- this seems to be the only case I have seen so I'm wondering if it was just a coincidence?


I'm having this problem a lot, but its also causing reboots.

SINCE I've hooked up the esata.

I use a Harmony 880 to control my system (Pioneer VSX-45, Sony KDXBR61, S3). When turning the system "on" which causes the Pioneer to come on and the Sony to turn on, sets the input to the HDMI. The Tivo never turns off, ie I don't but it in standby.

I would say 75% of the time now, when I turn on the system, i get a couple of seconds of audio from the receiver while the TV is starting up. As soon as the TV picture comes on and it talks to the Tivo, I get about a second of picture, then the "Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another input." and almost instaneously the TIVO performs a hard restart.

I use to occasionally get the viewing not permitted error, which i could repair by going to a different input and then coming back. But it never did the restart.

Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## jon96cobra

jon96cobra said:


> Thanks I will give it a try this weekend and see. I will try 3.0 gb and report back with my findings.
> 
> Using a Maxtor 500GB Serial ATA/300 in a Rosewill RX353-S BLK Rigid Aluminum Body and ABS plastic panel 3.5" eSATA enclosure.


Tried over the weekend to get my enclosure to work but the tivo popped up the message that the drive wasn't able to be detected. Is there anything else to try before I get another enclosure?


----------



## spike2k5

jon96cobra said:


> Tried over the weekend to get my enclosure to work but the tivo popped up the message that the drive wasn't able to be detected. Is there anything else to try before I get another enclosure?


I wouldn't get anything other than Antec MX-1
I've tested Seagate DB35.3 SATA and Maxtor Maxline Pro and seem to work well.

Stay away from Seagate FreeAgent Pro which seem to have a serious problem with eSATA port. I tried two and both worked well on USB port connected to a computer but won't work using eSATA port. I get "bus error" and "soft resets" every now and then. I tried with different cables and nothing helps.


----------



## MichaelK

spike2k5 said:


> I wouldn't get anything other than Antec MX-1
> I've tested Seagate DB35.3 SATA and Maxtor Maxline Pro and seem to work well.
> 
> Stay away from Seagate FreeAgent Pro which seem to have a serious problem with eSATA port. I tried two and both worked well on USB port connected to a computer but won't work using eSATA port. I get "bus error" and "soft resets" every now and then. I tried with different cables and nothing helps.


just another data point.

I've had a free agent pro for around a week now and no problems at all- not a single reset- no errors - nothing but tons and tons of suggestions recording- LOL

(once I figured out to trim the stupid cable I got- I have what is supposed to be the correct cable being delivered today so hopefully it wont be such an eyesore later today.)


----------



## jon96cobra

spike2k5 said:


> I wouldn't get anything other than Antec MX-1
> I've tested Seagate DB35.3 SATA and Maxtor Maxline Pro and seem to work well.
> 
> Stay away from Seagate FreeAgent Pro which seem to have a serious problem with eSATA port. I tried two and both worked well on USB port connected to a computer but won't work using eSATA port. I get "bus error" and "soft resets" every now and then. I tried with different cables and nothing helps.


Yeah I just looked for it on newegg and its out of stock. I though about getting the bytecc me-747satacombo which is also mentioned on the list of working enclosures.


----------



## spike2k5

jon96cobra said:


> Yeah I just looked for it on newegg and its out of stock. I though about getting the bytecc me-747satacombo which is also mentioned on the list of working enclosures.


The following stores have them in stock. I would stick with Antec MX-1 enclosure.

http://www.pcmicrostore.com/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1475301

http://www.excaliberpc.com/Antec_Veris_Media_MX-1_Actively/MX-1/partinfo-id-575347.html


----------



## greg_burns

jon96cobra said:


> Yeah I just looked for it on newegg and its out of stock.


Last time it went out of stock at Newegg it had a ETA of couple weeks out. I got an email the next day saying it was back in stock. :up:

YMMV


----------



## jon96cobra

I found it on price grabber for 54.76. I just hope that is the problem and not the drive.


----------



## 1283

Has anyone compared the Antec MX-1 with the Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT? Both have fans, but the Apricorn is supposedly fully aluminum, whereas the Antec is mostly plastic. Correct?


----------



## spike2k5

c3 said:


> Has anyone compared the Antec MX-1 with the Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT? Both have fans, but the Apricorn is supposedly fully aluminum, whereas the Antec is mostly plastic. Correct?


For Antec, top and bottom are all aluminum, 4 sides are mostly plastic.
It's really quiet and you can't hear the fan at all.

I have not tested Apricorn so can't comment on that one.


----------



## gteague

MichaelK said:


> just another data point.
> 
> I've had a free agent pro for around a week now and no problems at all- not a single reset- no errors - nothing but tons and tons of suggestions recording- LOL
> 
> (once I figured out to trim the stupid cable I got- I have what is supposed to be the correct cable being delivered today so hopefully it wont be such an eyesore later today.)


i was trying to save some money and thus originally bought a maxtor 500gb drive with a nexstar enclosure thinking i would upgrade when a good deal on a 750gb/1tb came along. this maxtor/nexstar combo which came with the proper esata2 cable has been working perfectly since day1 of the tivo/esata 'discovery' although the aluminum enclosure has no fan and ran hot enough to worry me. also the drive made a low clicking/thumping sound on disk i/o which was slightly annoying.

but then this weekend bestbuy puts the fap750 on sale for $200 and i have a 12%-off coupon so i couldn't resist in spite of some of my reservations of the seagate drive not being designed for 24/7 use.

this morning when i got off work i divorced the maxtor and married up the fap750. worked first time. and after 10 hours in operation the drive is not even slightly warm to the touch nor can i even hear it running unless i get 2" away from it.

and the drive is even aesthetically a good match for the tivo with the orangish-yellow color nearly exactly matching the tivo welcome screen and the yellow logo on the front panel. its design blends right in among a/v components.

so the plan is just to keep a close eye on it and hold onto the receipt, but so far i don't see the downside of getting a self-contained 750gb external drive that runs cool and quiet for well under $200.

and the old maxtor/nexstar combination it replaced will do just great as a weekly backup for my mac pro, so i haven't lost anything with that purchase either.

/guy


----------



## spike2k5

gteague said:


> i was trying to save some money and thus originally bought a maxtor 500gb drive with a nexstar enclosure thinking i would upgrade when a good deal on a 750gb/1tb came along. this maxtor/nexstar combo which came with the proper esata2 cable has been working perfectly since day1 of the tivo/esata 'discovery' although the aluminum enclosure has no fan and ran hot enough to worry me. also the drive made a low clicking/thumping sound on disk i/o which was slightly annoying.
> 
> but then this weekend bestbuy puts the fap750 on sale for $200 and i have a 12%-off coupon so i couldn't resist in spite of some of my reservations of the seagate drive not being designed for 24/7 use.
> 
> this morning when i got off work i divorced the maxtor and married up the fap750. worked first time. and after 10 hours in operation the drive is not even slightly warm to the touch nor can i even hear it running unless i get 2" away from it.
> 
> and the drive is even aesthetically a good match for the tivo with the orangish-yellow color nearly exactly matching the tivo welcome screen and the yellow logo on the front panel. its design blends right in among a/v components.
> 
> so the plan is just to keep a close eye on it and hold onto the receipt, but so far i don't see the downside of getting a self-contained 750gb external drive that runs cool and quiet for well under $200.
> 
> and the old maxtor/nexstar combination it replaced will do just great as a weekly backup for my mac pro, so i haven't lost anything with that purchase either.
> 
> /guy


Try recording two HD channels at once and watch a recorded Hd show.
Stress that bad boy and see how it goes.


----------



## gteague

spike2k5 said:


> Try recording two HD channels at once and watch a recorded Hd show.
> Stress that bad boy and see how it goes.


i'm working tonight, but have 2 days off starting tomorrow. i'll try my best to stress it and report back in a couple of days.

/guy


----------



## 1283

spike2k5 said:


> For Antec, top and bottom are all aluminum, 4 sides are mostly plastic.
> It's really quiet and you can't hear the fan at all.


Thanks. Do you happen to know if the Antec design splits the SATA signals passively (wire tap) or actively (receives the eSATA signal and retransmit it to the drive)?


----------



## DCIFRTHS

I was wondering where people are locating the 750 GB DB35 drive? I can't seem to find it anywhere


----------



## bsather

DCIFRTHS said:


> I was wondering where people are locating the 750 GB DB35 drive? I can't seem to find it anywhere


http://www.excaliberpc.com/Seagate_DB35_7200.3_Hard_drive/ST3750840SCE/partinfo-id-574243.html


----------



## DCIFRTHS

bsather said:


> http://www.excaliberpc.com/Seagate_DB35_7200.3_Hard_drive/ST3750840SCE/partinfo-id-574243.html


Thanks. Did you order form them? How well did they pack the drive for shipping?


----------



## spike2k5

c3 said:


> Thanks. Do you happen to know if the Antec design splits the SATA signals passively (wire tap) or actively (receives the eSATA signal and retransmit it to the drive)?


As far as I can tell by tracing the circuit, it's simple wire tap to eSATA port.


----------



## richsadams

DCIFRTHS said:


> Thanks. Did you order form them? How well did they pack the drive for shipping?


 I can vouch for excaliberpc.com as well. The drives arrive as bsather described and the delivery is lightening fast...great prices too. :up:


----------



## spike2k5

bsather said:


> I have ordered four DB35 drives from them...both 750GBs arrived in Seagate Seashells then wrapped in bubble wrap inside a box of peanuts. The 500GBs arrived in static bags heavily wrapped in bubble wrap in peanuts. Excellent service...have ordered drives & memory from them for years.


Are you serious? bubble wrap and peanuts!

Try thenerds.net.
Last time I ordered, they ship it properly, supending the drive in the middle of the box with shock proof plastic shells.


----------



## greg_burns

spike2k5 said:


> Try thenerds.net.


http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3750840SCE


----------



## keenanSR

thenerds looks like a good place, I didn't see the DB35 listed at excalibur, maybe I missed it.


----------



## MichaelK

spike2k5 said:


> Try recording two HD channels at once and watch a recorded Hd show.
> Stress that bad boy and see how it goes.


I've been beating on my free agent pro for about a week now. I have 2 hd recording and one playing back all the time and haven;t had a problem yet- of course you can never tell which dives it's reading from so can't say if all 3 streams are coming/going to the external drive. But I suspect since my original drive was full and I'm still loading suggestions that it's basically just riting to the external drive all the time now- and I'm playing back a show from last night so most likely all 3 are on the esata at the moment.

It is a decent aestheic match for sure the s3- right down to the orange night light.

I just changed out the whittled cable for an "official" sata II one (the ebay seller claimed esata II on the original but you know how that goes.). I can confirm that the pro-vantage cable here is correct : http://www.provantage.com/tripp-lite-p950-36i~7TRPA1HW.htm right now they are 4.32 and they drop ship from all over- they dropped mine from Harrisburg so ground shipping was one day to flemington NJ. YMMV.

I thought the cable dimensions would be really overt but it seems like maybe the esata II's are just 1/16th or maybe an 1/8th longer so that's why it's not so obvious with crappy old one. But they might also have an extra mm or something somewhere because they seem MUCH more snug.

So cable issue is resolved.

BUT- I will say the drive is really rather warm to the touch after a week of constant use- it's not hot- and i think it might even be cooler then a drive you pull out of a pc- sometimes those are scolding- but it was a bit unexpected none the less. It's in the uncooled closet in my MBR with the tivo, the lcd receiver, a dvd player and the s3. THe closet is a bit warm (it's been 90+ of late around here)- and the S3's fan is running full tilt. tivo reports 49 degrees C.

So it made me think for a minute before I buy a second free agent for the second S3- but since the post above says they are 200 at Best buy- It's a done deal- I'm just getting one. 

I guess I'll be the guinea pig if a few years of non stop use is too much for these things.


----------



## MichaelK

anyone rip open a free agent pro to see what's in it- it might be the db35 and for 200 bucks at best buy you get a bargain- even if you want to buy another enclosure to use it in. 

It's plenty quite in the enclosure- so it MIGHT be the db35....


----------



## jboy

Did anyone else notice how fast your have to be typing in 62? 

I tried to get my 500 GByte drive up and working 6 or 7 times. Finally, I got it work by ensuring that I entered "62" while the yellow light was on after all of the lights went out and the yellow light came back on. I think I only had about 2-3 seconds before the light went out again.

jerry


----------



## keenanSR

MichaelK said:


> anyone rip open a free agent pro to see what's in it- it might be the db35 and for 200 bucks at best buy you get a bargain- even if you want to buy another enclosure to use it in.
> 
> It's plenty quite in the enclosure- so it MIGHT be the db35....


I'd be interested in that as well, the ST3500630AS I got originally is freakin' noisy, sounds like a mini-popcorn machine - that drive is now destined for some server work elsewhere once I get the DB35.


----------



## MichaelK

another data point on the free agent pro- I forgot to add- I can also confrim that despite the 'soft switch' it does in fact fire right back up when the power is restored and it's connected to a tivo. 

The funny thing is after i bought it and had it hooked up it hit me that it was a soft switch. I didn't see the earlier reports that it fires right back up so i emailed their tech support asking if there was a way to set the firmware to start right back up. They replied basically 'no-tough- its a feature' - dumb a**es dont even know their own products.


----------



## MichaelK

keenanSR said:


> I'd be interested in that as well, the ST3500630AS I got originally is freakin' noisy, sounds like a mini-popcorn machine - that drive is now destined for some server work elsewhere once I get the DB35.


i have number 2 on order for pickup at the local store on the way home from work tomorrow- if i can get it open easily I'll report back (sorry no promises) BTW the free agent pro comes with a 5year warrenty- not sure if the db35 does or does not.

I cant seem to find any spec sheets at the seagate site at the moment- maybe someone else has better louck and can figure it out from the specs?


----------



## spike2k5

I've posted it on another thread but yes I did rip free agent pro open and it's 

ST3500630AS drive inside.

I would think 750 will have ST3750640AS.

No fan inside, drive is enclosed in a metal bracket with holes that's it.


----------



## bsather

spike2k5 said:


> Are you serious? bubble wrap and peanuts!
> 
> Try thenerds.net.
> Last time I ordered, they ship it properly, supending the drive in the middle of the box with shock proof plastic shells.


The drives were in plastic shells, then wrapped in large bubble wrap, surrounded by large foam packing peanuts. :up:


----------



## greg_burns

keenanSR said:


> thenerds looks like a good place, I didn't see the DB35 listed at excalibur, maybe I missed it.


http://www.excaliberpc.com/Seagate_DB35_7200.3_Hard_drive/ST3750840SCE/partinfo-id-574243.html

http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3750840SCE

I got them both bookmarked in case I decide to pull the trigger myself.


----------



## richsadams

spike2k5 said:


> Are you serious? bubble wrap and peanuts!
> 
> Try thenerds.net.
> Last time I ordered, they ship it properly, supending the drive in the middle of the box with shock proof plastic shells.


 We've purchased hundreds of computer parts; dozens of drives for PC's, our servers, etc. from a number of companies and the price, selection, stock and packing by excaliberpc.com was as good or better than most. We recommend them.

And a big thanks for your original post on this subject! :up:


----------



## keenanSR

greg_burns said:


> http://www.excaliberpc.com/Seagate_DB35_7200.3_Hard_drive/ST3750840SCE/partinfo-id-574243.html
> 
> http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3750840SCE
> 
> I got them both bookmarked in case I decide to pull the trigger myself.


Same here, thanks for the link to the other one.


----------



## slimm

c3 said:


> Has anyone compared the Antec MX-1 with the Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT? Both have fans, but the Apricorn is supposedly fully aluminum, whereas the Antec is mostly plastic. Correct?


I haven't tried the EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT(Hard Drive included) but I have tried the EZ-BUS-DTS and Antec MX-1 with a WD 500 GB Drive. The fan in each looks very similar. The Apricorn Has an all aluminum shell and the Antec has an aluminum/plastic shell. They are both very quiet and both keep the drive cool but I think the Antec is quieter and also keeps the drive cooler. The other selling point for the Antec is the soft blue light. The EZ-BUS has a very bright red light that also illuminates the front sides of the enclosure. Maybe I'm paranoid but red to me always means STOP!!!  A little tape can take care of the power light but I don't know about the eerie glow from the sides because it appears that air is pulled through the perforated vents . They both are excellent enclosures, it's just a matter of personal choice.


----------



## keenanSR

spike2k5 said:


> I've posted it on another thread but yes I did rip free agent pro open and it's
> 
> ST3500630AS drive inside.
> 
> I would think 750 will have ST3750640AS.
> 
> No fan inside, drive is enclosed in a metal bracket with holes that's it.


Interesting, the ST3500630AS I got is pretty noisy, could just be my drive, it's in a MX-1 case and it can be heard from 10' away in a quiet room.


----------



## MichaelK

keenanSR said:


> Interesting, the ST3500630AS I got is pretty noisy, could just be my drive, it's in a MX-1 case and it can be heard from 10' away in a quiet room.


ya know what's funny- inside the free agent pro case it seems pretty quite- but you can put your hand on the case and FEEL the drive seeks like mad.


----------



## spike2k5

keenanSR said:


> Interesting, the ST3500630AS I got is pretty noisy, could just be my drive, it's in a MX-1 case and it can be heard from 10' away in a quiet room.


What is the firmware version? 
It's on the top of the drive.


----------



## keenanSR

spike2k5 said:


> What is the firmware version?
> It's on the top of the drive.


Firmware: 3.AAK

Date code is: 07334

It's weird, there is nothing in my List currently, only the deleted stuff, about 70 of so shows, yet the drive is still seeking. When I had the cover off to check the FW it did at one point seek at a lower noise level, but then went back up again.

Right now it's dead quiet, but turning the S3 on, change a channel, and it's making pop-corn again. 

Now it's quiet again...


----------



## sfhub

keenanSR said:


> Firmware: 3.AAK
> 
> Date code is: 07334
> 
> It's weird, there is nothing in my List currently, only the deleted stuff, about 70 of so shows, yet the drive is still seeking. When I had the cover off to check the FW it did at one point seek at a lower noise level, but then went back up again.
> 
> Right now it's dead quiet, but turning the S3 on, change a channel, and it's making pop-corn again.
> 
> Now it's quiet again...


Your drive is listed as 7200.10 so my comments might not directly apply, but I have 4 7200.9 500GB drives that I tried with kickstart 62. They are all pretty noisy seek-wise. It is hard to predict when TiVo will be using the drive, as it sometimes is indexing or doing other stuff in the background. Watching live TV is going through the same motions as recording and playing back.

When my drives really aren't writing, they are relatively silent, but when the red "write" light starts being lit on my enclosure, I can hear the seeks very clearly.

I wouldn't use the recording list being empty as an indication that the drives should be silent.

I can also hear the DB35 drives, but the seek sound is much more muted to the point that it isn't noticeable unless I'm up close.


----------



## spike2k5

keenanSR said:


> Firmware: 3.AAK
> 
> Date code is: 07334
> 
> It's weird, there is nothing in my List currently, only the deleted stuff, about 70 of so shows, yet the drive is still seeking. When I had the cover off to check the FW it did at one point seek at a lower noise level, but then went back up again.
> 
> Right now it's dead quiet, but turning the S3 on, change a channel, and it's making pop-corn again.
> 
> Now it's quiet again...


Mine is upto 3.AFK and it is quiet. 
Date code: 07355 and Site code: TK (Thailand)
Maybe they fixed it in the later revision or 3.AFK is tune to be silent. 
It's all about the firmware anyways.

Because of live buffer, TiVo records all the time.


----------



## sfhub

In case anyone would like to try, I've upgraded Seagate firmware before. They have a process where you email them the serial #s of your drives and they give you some semi-custom firmware based on your serial #s. That's what they tell you anyway. I think they just want to verify the firmware you are starting with can be directly upgraded to the new firmware or whether you need to do a multi-step upgrade.

In my case the firmware was to fix RAID performance. In terms of noise, the drives were as loud as always.


----------



## spike2k5

sfhub said:


> In case anyone would like to try, I've upgraded Seagate firmware before. They have a process where you email them the serial #s of your drives and they give you some semi-custom firmware based on your serial #s. That's what they tell you anyway. I think they just want to verify the firmware you are starting with can be directly upgraded to the new firmware or whether you need to do a multi-step upgrade.
> 
> In my case the firmware was to fix RAID performance. In terms of noise, the drives were as loud as always.


That was a scsi drive right?
I don't know if they will do it for desktop drives though.


----------



## keenanSR

The noise is acceptable currently, I really only hear it during soft passages, and it's not there all the time, when it is, it's noisy though. I'm really just waiting to see what the 1TB Hitachi is like and then I'll just swap that one in and put the Seagate where noise isn't an issue.


----------



## jlib

> ...Try thenerds.net...


Anyone who decides to purchase any upgrade products from thenerds.net should use the gateway links at MFSlive.org. That assures the source is properly credited.


----------



## sfhub

spike2k5 said:


> That was a scsi drive right?
> I don't know if they will do it for desktop drives though.


Nah, these were the SATA 7200.9 drives, standard desktop drives, not the enterprise versions. There was a bug that caused RAID performance to suffer.


----------



## ctcraig

Got my Apricot 500gb DVR ESATA drive. 10 minutes later I've got 98 hrs of HD and almost 1000 of SD.

Woo Hoo!


----------



## richsadams

ctcraig said:


> Got my Apricot 500gb DVR ESATA drive. 10 minutes later I've got 98 hrs of HD and almost 1000 of SD.
> 
> Woo Hoo!


 Apricot?  Is it an organic drive?  Could it be a...oh...say...Apricorn? Curse spell check!! 

Congrats!


----------



## SAH2

*Update: May-29-2007*
There is a bug in TiVo built-in divorce process so if you divorced your eSATA, you won't be able to use mfstools. 
I'm not sure what kind of impact this bug will have on the way TiVo works but it appears to be just cosmetic at this point but 
I would divorce it cleanly by pulling the drive and running a utility called fixdivorce.
I don't know who to contact to report this kind of bug so if anyone knows, let me know as well.[/QUOTE]

Would this prevent you from doing an internal upgrade in the future? I am just about to add an external drive, and was planning on adding a 1TB drive internally later on.


----------



## spike2k5

SAH2 said:


> *Update: May-29-2007*
> There is a bug in TiVo built-in divorce process so if you divorced your eSATA, you won't be able to use mfstools.
> I'm not sure what kind of impact this bug will have on the way TiVo works but it appears to be just cosmetic at this point but
> I would divorce it cleanly by pulling the drive and running a utility called fixdivorce.
> I don't know who to contact to report this kind of bug so if anyone knows, let me know as well.


Would this prevent you from doing an internal upgrade in the future? I am just about to add an external drive, and was planning on adding a 1TB drive internally later on.[/QUOTE]

No. If you want to upgrade internal drive, divorce your eSATA first,
pull the drive and run a program called fixdivorce.
Then, you can expand your internal drive.


----------



## jlib

SAH2 said:


> ...I am just about to add an external drive, and was planning on adding a 1TB drive internally later on.


Note that once you accumulate a lot of data on the external drive you may not want to lose it all to upgrade the internal drive. The preferred path would be to upgrade the internal drive first if you are ever planning to upgrade it at all. But those 1TB drives _are_ a little steep right now...


----------



## SAH2

My original plan was to upgrade the internal by buying a preformatted one, then I discovered the external option. I decided to do the external as a temporary solution knowing I will lose all the data when I do the internal upgrade. I bought one of the 750GB Freeagent Pros for $176 at BB - I can always use it for a PC later on.

I only have laptop computers and I am still trying to figure out how I could do the internal upgrade and the fix required for eSata using just a laptop. I have found a PCMCIA 2 port esata card and will be exploring whether or not I could use this to connect the 2 eSata drives. I have a lot of reading to do to figure this out, as all of the information I have found to date only refers to connecting the drives to a desktop PC. If anyone has ever used a laptop I would appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## spike2k5

SAH2 said:


> My original plan was to upgrade the internal by buying a preformatted one, then I discovered the external option. I decided to do the external as a temporary solution knowing I will lose all the data when I do the internal upgrade. I bought one of the 750GB Freeagent Pros for $176 at BB - I can always use it for a PC later on.
> 
> I only have laptop computers and I am still trying to figure out how I could do the internal upgrade and the fix required for eSata using just a laptop. I have found a PCMCIA 2 port esata card and will be exploring whether or not I could use this to connect the 2 eSata drives. I have a lot of reading to do to figure this out, as all of the information I have found to date only refers to connecting the drives to a desktop PC. If anyone has ever used a laptop I would appreciate your thoughts.


You can use USB to SATA/IDE adapter. I'm using the Vantec brand and seems to work well. For eSATA, you can buy an eSATA to SATA cable to connec it as well.


----------



## SAH2

Thanks for the info. So if I wanted to do the procedure that requires the original internal drive and new larger internal drive to both be hooked up at the same time (to copy files and settings etc ) can I just use 2 of the Vantec adapters and then get a Sata to eSata cable to hook up the external if necessary?


----------



## spike2k5

SAH2 said:


> Thanks for the info. So if I wanted to do the procedure that requires the original internal drive and new larger internal drive to both be hooked up at the same time (to copy files and settings etc ) can I just use 2 of the Vantec adapters and then get a Sata to eSata cable to hook up the external if necessary?


Yes.
Copying process is little slower that straight IDE connection but shoud work fine.
Check with the device spec and see how large of a drive it supports.

I tried 500GB on Vantec and worked.


----------



## tivopalos

If you plan on exchanging your internal drive for a fresh preformated one, (like from Weaknees), and don't care about losing programs on your original drive, there is no need to use fixdivorce, just replace the drive and start fresh.

Correct?


----------



## spike2k5

Correct!


----------



## AceTheAceMan

Does anyone know if the eSATA Backpanel Port is a Port Multiplier compatible eSata port. I haven't purchased my Series 3 yet. But I'm looking at upgrade options Like a 4-Disk RAID Enclosure. If anyone has one "lying around" and could test one for me


----------



## 1283

AceTheAceMan said:


> Does anyone know if the eSATA Backpanel Port is a Port Multiplier compatible eSata port. I haven't purchased my Series 3 yet. But I'm looking at upgrade options Like a 4-Disk RAID Enclosure. If anyone has one "lying around" and could test one for me


I'm 99.9% sure it's not PM-aware. A RAID system does NOT require a PM-aware host because part of its job is emulating the system as a single drive.


----------



## jlib

AceTheAceMan said:


> ...I'm looking at upgrade options Like a 4-Disk RAID Enclosure. If anyone has one "lying around" and could test one for me


The three biggest problems you will encounter are the expense of a RAID 5 four disk enclosure (probably way over $1K without any drives), the the sheer noise (designed more for the server room than the living room), and the limited number of systems that are self-contained (no PC controller card required) and hardware based (no software drivers required). And no, the eSATA port is not PM compatible.


----------



## ajlee7

I purchased the DB35 Seagate but the model number is ST3750840ACE not ...SCE. Did I get the wrong drive?


----------



## richsadams

ajlee7 said:


> I purchased the DB35 Seagate but the model number is ST3750840ACE not ...SCE. Did I get the wrong drive?


 The Seagate DB35 Drive model numbers specifically designed for DVR use are:

Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 SATA 3Gb/s 500-GB Hard Drive - ST3500830SCE  
As found for sale here.

Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 SATA 3Gb/s 750-GB Hard Drive - ST3750840SCE 
As found for sale here.

These are designed for 24/7 use, do not spin down and use near-silent operation technology.


----------



## moxie1617

ajlee7 said:


> I purchased the DB35 Seagate but the model number is ST3750840ACE not ...SCE. Did I get the wrong drive?


Yes! You bought a PATA drive(it has an IDE connection), not the SATA drive. It won't work as a replacement nor in the SATA enclosure.


----------



## ajlee7

moxie1617 said:


> Yes! You bought a PATA drive(it has an IDE connection), not the SATA drive. It won't work as a replacement nor in the SATA enclosure.


Argg! Thanks


----------



## jon96cobra

jon96cobra said:


> I found it on price grabber for 54.76. I just hope that is the problem and not the drive.


Got the drive bay 2 weeks ago and got everything plugged in works great. Thank for the help with getting the right drive enclosure. Its silent I don't even here the Maxtor 500gb drive running.  :up:


----------



## y2jdmbfan

I have a Series 3 that I updated to 750GB as soon as I found out you could. Now with the eSATA enabled I would like to put the original drive back in the Series 3 and a DB35 750 in an eSATA enclosure. My question is, is there a way to keep my recordings on the old 750GB drive? Can I copy them to the new drive combo?

Thanks,

Y2J


----------



## jlib

y2jdmbfan said:


> I have a Series 3 that I updated to 750GB as soon as I found out you could. Now with the eSATA enabled I would like to put the original drive back in the Series 3 and a DB35 750 in an eSATA enclosure. My question is, is there a way to keep my recordings on the old 750GB drive? Can I copy them to the new drive combo?


No, but having the internal drive being upgraded is a more robust way to go about it anyway so it is not clear what you could expect to gain by transferring your internal 750GB to external. If the current setup is not allowing enough space it makes more sense to just add a new external drive appropriate to your needs. 500GB drives are downright cheap and another 750GB would mean you would not need to revisit this issue for some time.


----------



## wilhouse

I haven't read all 45 pages, but can someone tell me if you have to format the drive first, or if you just attach it and go?
wilhouse


----------



## Fofer

No need to pre-format.


----------



## wilhouse

thx!
wilhouse


----------



## emmulator

I've got the Free Agent Pro 750, and I've hooked it up and gone through the process about half a dozen times with no results. Two questions:

1) Does the Free Agent Pro ever light up during the process? It lights up for a bit when I press the power button, but then the light goes back off again. Should it be staying lit or should it light up when TiVo tries to connect to it, or is it normal for it to stay dark?

2) I've seen people mention eSATA II; are there two kinds of eSATA cables? My cable just says "e-SATA to e-SATA". (Link Depot 3BU)

Any other ideas on what I could try? I don't have any other eSATA device to test the drive on, would hooking it up to a PC via USB be a valid test, or will I just wind up ruining it for the TiVo by formatting for the PC?

Thanks!


----------



## gteague

emmulator said:


> I've got the Free Agent Pro 750, and I've hooked it up and gone through the process about half a dozen times with no results. Two questions:
> 
> 1) Does the Free Agent Pro ever light up during the process? It lights up for a bit when I press the power button, but then the light goes back off again. Should it be staying lit or should it light up when TiVo tries to connect to it, or is it normal for it to stay dark?
> 
> 2) I've seen people mention eSATA II; are there two kinds of eSATA cables? My cable just says "e-SATA to e-SATA". (Link Depot 3BU)
> 
> Any other ideas on what I could try? I don't have any other eSATA device to test the drive on, would hooking it up to a PC via USB be a valid test, or will I just wind up ruining it for the TiVo by formatting for the PC?
> 
> Thanks!


i can answer the first question. when i got my fap750 i hooked it up via usb to my windows computer just to make sure it worked. i copied off the software to the computer but otherwise i didn't do anything--i didn't format it or even install the software. i do remember turning it off using the soft switch though.

so i was surprised (pleasantly) to find that when the tivo powered up the fap powered up also. so yes, unless you've mucked about with the fap software, the light should be on constantly and the drive should automatically power up when the tivo does. btw, unlike some others on here, i love the light.

you might look back through the threads and the faq for the tips about sata cables. perhaps yours needs to be trimmed? i'm using one that came with another enclosure so i have no idea as to its origin.

/guy


----------



## emmulator

gteague said:


> you might look back through the threads and the faq for the tips about sata cables. perhaps yours needs to be trimmed? i'm using one that came with another enclosure so i have no idea as to its origin.
> 
> /guy


You're right, my bad, I had only read this thread. A friend sent me a link and for some reason I didn't think to look for others. My eSATA cable has the short connector. I'm going to try trimming it.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

emmulator said:


> I've got the Free Agent Pro 750, and I've hooked it up and gone through the process about half a dozen times with no results. Two questions:
> 
> 1) Does the Free Agent Pro ever light up during the process? It lights up for a bit when I press the power button, but then the light goes back off again. Should it be staying lit or should it light up when TiVo tries to connect to it, or is it normal for it to stay dark?
> 
> 2) I've seen people mention eSATA II; are there two kinds of eSATA cables? My cable just says "e-SATA to e-SATA". (Link Depot 3BU)
> 
> Any other ideas on what I could try? I don't have any other eSATA device to test the drive on, would hooking it up to a PC via USB be a valid test, or will I just wind up ruining it for the TiVo by formatting for the PC?
> 
> Thanks!


The post by *gteague * is correct, your eSATA drive and TiVo "communicate" on power up so it should come on when you plug TiVo back in.

It sounds very much like a cable connection issue which seems to be an ongoing problem with FAP750's based on numerous posts . Check to ensure that the connection to the FAP750 is secure/snug...a problem many have reported having trouble with. And rather than modifying the cable that you have and risking a disconnect later you should purchase the correct cable.

View the Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion post for more details and #28 in particular for recommended eSATA II cables.

Best of luck and keep us posted. :up:


----------



## hopefulboydy

Has anyone successfully used mslive cd v1.2 to take an already upgraded series 3 HD (now 500Gig in my case) and add the eSata drive and still save the recordings on the already upgraded drive?

I know I can do upgrade and add the eSATA by backing up the contents of the 500 G drive to a file and then restoring back to the combined pair.

But would using this command allow me to just add the second drive?:

mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb (sda is my 500 G internal drive and sdb is the eSATA drive)

thanks in advance.
hopefulboydy


----------



## spike2k5

hopefulboydy said:


> Has anyone successfully used mslive cd v1.2 to take an already upgraded series 3 HD (now 500Gig in my case) and add the eSata drive and still save the recordings on the already upgraded drive?
> 
> I know I can do upgrade and add the eSATA by backing up the contents of the 500 G drive to a file and then restoring back to the combined pair.
> 
> But would using this command allow me to just add the second drive?:
> 
> mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb (sda is my 500 G internal drive and sdb is the eSATA drive)
> 
> thanks in advance.
> hopefulboydy


Yes and you have the right command.


----------



## hopefulboydy

Thanks Spike2k5.

I finally got my eSATA drive this week and got it installed with my already upgraded internal drive. It went like a charm.

Thanks.


----------



## jimbob111

anyone have a recommendation for an external drive that would look good in an a/v rack?


----------



## richsadams

jimbob111 said:


> anyone have a recommendation for an external drive that would look good in an a/v rack?


 Antec's MX-1 eSATA drive enclosure has nice look...almost "TiVoish". It can be placed vertical or horizontal and has a blue light on the front that isn't too bright...isn't too dark...it's just right. It comes with the proper eSATA II cable and seems to have almost no problems based on user reports.


----------



## wackymann

I already posted this in the S3 forum, but I'm desperate for a response, so I am reposting this here...

OK - so I feel like an idiot, but I can't get this to work... Here is what I did:

1. Hooked up my old 750 GB drive to SATA port 1, new 750 GB drive to SATA port 2.
2. Booted up to latest mfslive.org bootable CD.
3. Checked to make sure /dev/sda and /dev/sdb were being seen OK by scrolling up (looked good)
4. Typed command: mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb (quickly returned with "Success" message)
5. Powered off PC
6. Reassembled Tivo
7. Mounted new drive in Antec MX-1 case and plugged it in and turned it on (see blue light)
8. Hooked everything back up to my Tivo S3, and then hooked up eSATA cable.
9. Plugged Tivo back in.

It booted up fine, but still reports 98 hours of HD. I tried another soft restart using the remote, and nothing changed. It's acting as though nothing has changed. Did I forget to do something? Am I an idiot?


----------



## wilhouse

has everyone seen the new HD DVR from TIVO with the 160gb HDD? Will this have the ESata connection? If so, what's the point?? And how does dropping from a 250gb hd to a 160gb hd drop the price from $800 to $300???

wilhouse


----------



## spike2k5

wackymann said:


> I already posted this in the S3 forum, but I'm desperate for a response, so I am reposting this here...
> 
> OK - so I feel like an idiot, but I can't get this to work... Here is what I did:
> 
> 1. Hooked up my old 750 GB drive to SATA port 1, new 750 GB drive to SATA port 2.
> 2. Booted up to latest mfslive.org bootable CD.
> 3. Checked to make sure /dev/sda and /dev/sdb were being seen OK by scrolling up (looked good)
> 4. Typed command: mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb (quickly returned with "Success" message)
> 5. Powered off PC
> 6. Reassembled Tivo
> 7. Mounted new drive in Antec MX-1 case and plugged it in and turned it on (see blue light)
> 8. Hooked everything back up to my Tivo S3, and then hooked up eSATA cable.
> 9. Plugged Tivo back in.
> 
> It booted up fine, but still reports 98 hours of HD. I tried another soft restart using the remote, and nothing changed. It's acting as though nothing has changed. Did I forget to do something? Am I an idiot?


send output of

mfsinfo /dev/sda /dev/sdb
pdisk -l /dev/sda
pdisk -l /dev/sdb 
and I can take a look.


----------



## spike2k5

wilhouse said:


> has everyone seen the new HD DVR from TIVO with the 160gb HDD? Will this have the ESata connection? If so, what's the point?? And how does dropping from a 250gb hd to a 160gb hd drop the price from $800 to $300???
> 
> wilhouse


It's got an eSATA connection on the back.


----------



## wackymann

spike2k5 said:


> send output of
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> pdisk -l /dev/sda
> pdisk -l /dev/sdb
> and I can take a look.


Thank you! I will do that tonight and post the results.


----------



## richsadams

wilhouse said:


> has everyone seen the new HD DVR from TIVO with the 160gb HDD? Will this have the ESata connection? If so, what's the point?? And how does dropping from a 250gb hd to a 160gb hd drop the price from $800 to $300???
> 
> wilhouse





miken said:


> Anyone read Engadget today?
> 
> Lots of TiVo news. New cheaper version of the Series 3 hitting shelves soon. TiVoToGo enabled on Series 3 and last but what this whole thread is about, the Official Announcement that eSATA port will be enabled for external storage. Supposably and Best Buy will have the retail exclusive on the external drive.
> 
> I hope all previous working drives continue to work and that they don't send out an update that will only enable the Best Buy drive.
> 
> If anyone have anymore info on this, please post it. Especially on the Best Buy drive cost and storage capacity.


 Here is the link to the Engadget article.

Here's a link to the latest thread.

TiVo has been beta testing the eSATA connection and MRV for the S3 for a while now according to some beta testers that leaked their info recently. With only a 160GB drive in the new TiVo HD box they'll need to have an increased capacity option.

The original MRV/TivoToGo mention in the article said it will only work with SD programming, not HD, but now that part is lined through and they say it _will _ work with HD. :up: (I think I'll believe it when I see it.)

Here's the latest article.

The only thing I would be concerned with is an update to the FW which will allow TiVo to immediately recognize a new external drive. That will be a must as TiVo certainly wont expect normal folks to go through the Kickstart process. An update may or may not format existing external drives...and impact existing content. 

All of this was to be expected as these are important marketing features for the S3 and now TiVo HD which they were not taking advantage of, plus branded TiVo eSATA drives will be a new revenue stream for TiVo. It'll be interesting to see the size(s) and price point from BB.


----------



## wackymann

spike2k5 said:


> send output of
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> pdisk -l /dev/sda
> pdisk -l /dev/sdb
> and I can take a look.


Running those commands it became obvious that I had mixed up the 2 drives (sda/sdb). So I reran the comand using the correct notation. Now I am having all sorts of problems:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5354539#post5354539

Any ideas?


----------



## spike2k5

wackymann said:


> Running those commands it became obvious that I had mixed up the 2 drives (sda/sdb). So I reran the comand using the correct notation. Now I am having all sorts of problems:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5354539#post5354539
> 
> Any ideas?


Actually, mfstools won't let you add a "B" drive if you mix sda and sdb so if you ran it 2nd time with the correct command you are good as far as adding eSATA drive.

Problem you are having might be due to other problems. 
- Make sure your eSATA cable and drive is away from any device that cause EMI.
- Reseat your Cablecards if you have them.
- make sure your 750GB drive is error free. What kind of hard drive is it?
You can download manufacturer diagnostic software and run it.

If you can post what I asked above that would be helpful as well.
Also if you run the diagnostic software, can you post # of total sectors it reports?


----------



## wackymann

Location: I have the Antec MX-1 sitting next to my receiver, which is usually turned off (and has been off the entire time since I started using it). Maybe there are magnets in it or something? I'll try moving it away from everything.

Disk type: Both of my drives are 750 GB Seagate DB35 drives (which is why I had a little trouble distinguishing them).

Everything has been running fine since my GSOD (which didn't take that long to recover from), so I'm hesitatnt to turn things off to do more diagnostics at this point. I will definitely do it if/when I have any more trouble.

Thanks again for your help!

One recommendation for the powers that be... it would have been nice if the instructions at the mfslive website included a little note on how to list the partitions on the 2 drives to help distinguish between sda/sdb. That helped me a lot!


----------



## wackymann

OK - the Tivo totally hung... had to unplug it. So I punted and divorced the drive. I am running Seatools diagnostics on it right now. It passed the short test, and now I am running the long test. *Update* - passed the long test as well. My PC seems to think the drive is fine.


----------



## jlib

Carsten said:


> Wonder if there is enough room to put the 2nd hard inside the Tivo. Then redirect the eSata inside and and use internal power.


There is barely enough room with some creative positioning. What is not clear is whether the power supply is robust enough for two drives and whether the extra drive will cause over-heating problems. You get to be a pioneer!


----------



## spike2k5

wackymann said:


> OK - the Tivo totally hung... had to unplug it. So I punted and divorced the drive. I am running Seatools diagnostics on it right now. It passed the short test, and now I am running the long test. *Update* - passed the long test as well. My PC seems to think the drive is fine.


You want to try method 2 with large swap and see if that makes any difference.


----------



## wackymann

spike2k5 said:


> You want to try method 2 with large swap and see if that makes any difference.


I have a few questions:

1. Would I have to erase anything on the new disk drive (or prepare it it any way) before I use Method 2 again? I haven't done anything with it other than run the Seatools diagnostics on it.

2. Would I have to do anything to the original drive in the Tivo? Do I have to use that fixdivorce command I have read about?

3. What is the command I should use to increase the swap size?


----------



## ctcraig

My Series 3 with an Apricorn DVR Xpander began rebooting every few minutes yesterday. It stopped when I removed the external drive. I had a couple hundred hours of recording (maybe more). Well I've hooked it back up, my recording are gone (expected) and I'll see if it happens again.

OR

Should I return the unit to TiVo for an exchange?

Any thoughts would be a help

Thank you


----------



## 1283

ctcraig said:


> Should I return the unit to TiVo for an exchange?


why?


----------



## richsadams

ctcraig said:


> My Series 3 with an Apricorn DVR Xpander began rebooting every few minutes yesterday. It stopped when I removed the external drive. I had a couple hundred hours of recording (maybe more). Well I've hooked it back up, my recording are gone (expected) and I'll see if it happens again.
> 
> OR
> 
> Should I return the unit to TiVo for an exchange?
> 
> Any thoughts would be a help
> 
> Thank you


Sorry you lost your recordings.  What a pain.

There isn't any evidence that there is a problem with TiVo's eSATA port...only with the external drives, connections, etc. and/or TiVo's software at this time. So I don't think you'd get very far trying to return your TiVo for an unsupported feature issue.

For whatever reason I've found that when our TiVo starts getting "glitchey", slowing down, etc. it usually happens when we've saved up a lot of programs (obviously many on the eSATA drive), have a bunch of Season Passes and Wish List items and our "Recently Deleted" folder hits about 200 recordings or so. I've gone in and cleared out all of the stuff we don't want and permanently deleted all of the RD folder recordings. This seems to clear things up quite well and TiVo gets back to its old self. It leads me to believe that, as with most computers, the more data it has to deal with, the more chances there are that something will go wrong. TiVos current software was only meant to support the internal A drives capacity, so it shouldnt be surprising that overwhelming it causes some problems IMHO. (BTW I keep the RD folder mostly empty now...I don't want to go through getting rid of 200+ recordings ever again!  )

We're all hoping that a software update that will support the eSATA feature will take care of a lot of the bugs we're seeing.

With regard to your external drive, you might want to try a new eSATA II cable...seems to be the biggest issue so far.


----------



## spike2k5

Tivo did increase /var size on the new Tivo HD so maybe it needs more /var space. That's where tmp files are kept as well.


----------



## richsadams

spike2k5 said:


> Tivo did increase /var size on the new Tivo HD so maybe it needs more /var space. That's where tmp files are kept as well.


Makes perfect sense. :up:


----------



## AGBulls

richsadams said:


> Makes perfect sense. :up:


Any word if method 1 works on the TivoHD to get the esata port working? If so, that would be one simple solution to expanding my HD space.


----------



## spike2k5

AGBulls said:


> Any word if method 1 works on the TivoHD to get the esata port working? If so, that would be one simple solution to expanding my HD space.


eSATA port is turned off from Linux Kernel level so no method 1 for now.


----------



## ctcraig

Thanks I'll do the same and see what happens. I can always record Star Trek voyager and Spin City again


----------



## anstett

Just a quick thank you for all the information stored here. 

Bought the recommended gear, plugged it in, restart the unit.... 

go back and read the instructions

restart the unit with pause, type 62 and presto everything works great.

Thank you all. 

BOB


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## nhey

richsadams said:


> The Seagate DB35 Drive model numbers specifically designed for DVR use are:
> 
> Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 SATA 3Gb/s 500-GB Hard Drive - ST3500830SCE
> As found for sale here.
> 
> Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 SATA 3Gb/s 750-GB Hard Drive - ST3750840SCE
> As found for sale here.
> 
> These are designed for 24/7 use, do not spin down and use near-silent operation technology.


... which external hard drive enclosure do you recommend with these internal drives? and do they have a "hard" switch?


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## moxie1617

nhey said:


> ... which external hard drive enclosure do you recommend with these internal drives? and do they have a "hard" switch?


They are listed in Item 33 of the 1st post in this thread.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5124019&&#post5124019
I'd recommend the Antec MX-1.


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## richsadams

nhey said:


> ... which external hard drive enclosure do you recommend with these internal drives? and do they have a "hard" switch?


Once again, *moxie1617 * and I are on the same page. But you can blame him if anything goes wrong. 

The Antec MX-1 is a very good enclosure, fan cooled, comes with the proper cable and happens to be a good buy at newegg.com, $39.99 after rebate right now.


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## flyerman

I have upgraded my Series 3 with a Seagate 750 GB HD ST3750640AS. It has been working for weeks with no problems. Now it started to stutter and freeze a little. It has been getting worse the past week, so I ran test on the external drive with Seatools and it has found that the drive is ok. I am trying to delete the already deleted shows (166) to make room as indicated above. I guess my next try will be to open up and test the internal drive.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!


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## flyerman

Pulled internal HD and started Seatools. It passes short test so far but did give me an error "temp reached 122 do you want to continue." I am in the process of runnning long test.


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## spike2k5

flyerman said:


> Pulled internal HD and started Seatools. It passes short test so far but did give me an error "temp reached 122 do you want to continue." I am in the process of runnning long test.


What enclosure are you using?


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## flyerman

I am using a "XGEAR" that supports usb and esata. I had the hard drive out of the enclosure so it would stay cooler but still connected. This had been working fine for weeks.


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## spike2k5

flyerman said:


> I am using a "XGEAR" that supports usb and esata. I had the hard drive out of the enclosure so it would stay cooler but still connected. This had been working fine for weeks.


Try an enclosure w/ a fan or two.

Also, good quality eSATA II cable makes a big difference.


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## flyerman

I will try another enclosure and cable. I ran Seatools on the internal drive and it passed long and short but did give me an error:

Drive Fails Pretest SMARTCHECKS

Overtemp -- 122

Does this mean the drive is bad??


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## spike2k5

flyerman said:


> I will try another enclosure and cable. I ran Seatools on the internal drive and it passed long and short but did give me an error:
> 
> Drive Fails Pretest SMARTCHECKS
> 
> Overtemp -- 122
> 
> Does this mean the drive is bad??


I'm not sure that means but you can contact Seagate and see what they say.


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## richsadams

flyerman said:


> I have upgraded my Series 3 with a Seagate 750 GB HD ST3750640AS. It has been working for weeks with no problems. Now it started to stutter and freeze a little. It has been getting worse the past week, so I ran test on the external drive with Seatools and it has found that the drive is ok. I am trying to delete the already deleted shows (166) to make room as indicated above. I guess my next try will be to open up and test the internal drive.
> 
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!


The symptoms could be related to the eSATA drive or may have nothing to do with it as they've been reported since S1's were around and usually indicates a problem with the HDD.

As Spike suggested, a new eSATA cable and enclosure might be all that's needed.

Also, have you tried running TiVo's built-in diagnostics, Kickstart 57? It's not a cure-all, but can remedy things now and then.

*Kickstart 57:*

1. Unplug TiVo and wait 15 seconds.
2. Plug TiVo in, get the TiVo remote and aim it at TiVo.
3. Press and hold the pause button until the orange light comes back on by itself.
4. Release the pause button and immediately type in the numbers 5 and 7 on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
5. TiVo will reboot and the GSOD screen will come on saying TiVo has encountered a serious error. It will then run the disk management tool which can take from 10 minutes to 3 hours to complete. During this time it will look for and correct configuration problems as well as isolating any bad sectors on the hard drive so they can no longer be used.
6. TiVo will automatically reboot again and hopefully things will return to normal. (Programs that used any bad sectors may be lost.)

If that doesnt work you may want to contact TiVo and see what they suggest. You might want to get an exchange unit or look into replacing your hard drive (very easy to do).


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## flyerman

Just purchased Antec MX-1 on sale at Microcenter for $49.00 which is not bad considering i don't have to deal with a rebate. INstalled with new cable and same problem. I am running kickstart 57 at the moment and I will report back. Maybe this will help someone else.


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## flyerman

Came back after running and I am at the TIVO central screen with no response. Maybe my temp (/var) is full? How do I clean this out? Any suggestions from hear would be appreciated. A few options I can think of but which one would be better:

1.) Any way to try and clean out /var? 
2.) I have another Maxtor 500GB Sata available. Can I try and swap out the internal drive with that? 
3.) Divorce the external and start fresh?


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## richsadams

flyerman said:


> Came back after running and I am at the TIVO central screen with no response. Maybe my temp (/var) is full? How do I clean this out? Any suggestions from hear would be appreciated. A few options I can think of but which one would be better:
> 
> 1.) Any way to try and clean out /var?
> 2.) I have another Maxtor 500GB Sata available. Can I try and swap out the internal drive with that?
> 3.) Divorce the external and start fresh?


Hmmm...I suppose you've unplugged it and plugged it back in by now? Hmmm...not sure about the /var partition unless you pull the drive and do some mfstools/PC work on it. You could try swapping drives but I guess if it were me I'd divorce the eSATA drive and see if TiVo comes back to life or still has problems. If it continues to be uncooperative it would certainly narrow it down to the "A" HDD and if not...youd know something's up with the eSATA drive.


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## flyerman

Sad to say I divorced the external drive and still have troubles. It appears to be a bad internal drive. I am trying to put the drive in the computer but it will not recognize it. Do I need to set a jumper on the WD250? What happens if I can't get it to read? I have no backups because I never opened the unit before this. Ouch. I have a 500GB Maxtor sata but I am lost.


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## richsadams

flyerman said:


> Sad to say I divorced the external drive and still have troubles. It appears to be a bad internal drive. I am trying to put the drive in the computer but it will not recognize it. Do I need to set a jumper on the WD250? What happens if I can't get it to read? I have no backups because I never opened the unit before this. Ouch. I have a 500GB Maxtor sata but I am lost.


Sad  but these things happen. In answer to your question, I don't think you need to change anything on the original HDD for PC recognition. Perhaps someone else (Spike?) will chime in, but IMHO about your only option would be to leave the original drive inside and call TiVo, tell them it died and see what they'll do about an exchange. (No need to mention the eSATA "experiment".  )

If it makes you feel any better, we all owe you some thanks for sharing. Knowing that it's not the eSATA drive that's to blame is comforting in a way. :up:

Thanks for posting and let us know how you get on.


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## flyerman

Thanks for all your help. I finally was able to read the internal drive and used the 750 external now to be the internal. I will worry about adding an external later on. I lost all of my recordings but was able to save all settings and season passes.

I had to do a fixdivorce command first. Then I used the following command:
backup -qf 9999 -so - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd

PS (remember to use a space between "- /dev" both times.

How this helps someone else out if their internal drive goes bad. I wish I could have saved some of the recordings.


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## richsadams

flyerman said:


> Thanks for all your help. I finally was able to read the internal drive and used the 750 external now to be the internal. I will worry about adding an external later on. I lost all of my recordings but was able to save all settings and season passes.
> 
> I had to do a fixdivorce command first. Then I used the following command:
> backup -qf 9999 -so - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd
> 
> PS (remember to use a space between "- /dev" both times.
> 
> How this helps someone else out if their internal drive goes bad. I wish I could have saved some of the recordings.


Bummer about the lost programs...but good news about the drive! :up:


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## phonefixers

Is there a way to do this on an HD?


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## jlib

.


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## jlib

flyerman said:


> I lost all of my recordings but was able to save all settings and season passes...I used the following command:
> *backup -qf 9999 -so - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd*
> ...I wish I could have saved some of the recordings.


The MFSLive Upgrade Guide explicitly says in bold you will lose all recordings if your use Option 1.6 as you did. Did the "preserves recordings" Option 1.2 
*backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd*
not work for you?


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## richsadams

phonefixers said:


> Is there a way to do this on an HD?


Not as easily as on the S3...requires opening the box, etc. Best bet at this point if you want more space on your TiVo HD is to simply replace the existing "A" HDD with a larger one.

This thread  has all the info on eSATA expansion for TiVo HD's.


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## spiraleyes

richsadams said:


> Not as easily as on the S3...requires opening the box, etc. Best bet at this point if you want more space on your TiVo HD is to simply replace the existing "A" HDD with a larger one.
> 
> This thread  has all the info on eSATA expansion for TiVo HD's.


Thanks!


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