# Dreadful experience thus far... any reassuring thoughts?



## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Well, it's been just a few days over a month since I drove about 2.5 hours to get a Roamio Pro. Since then, I've had 2 really bad experiences with support, 1 semi-ok encounter with TiVos executive relations team, a litany of issues with online.tivo.com and the iOS phone app, and I'm in the process of having an advance replacement performed. 

Short but sweet version:

TiVo Online (on same network) often doesn't work when streaming already recorded shows to my computer. Will say it can't find my dvr. Or, it will begin to let me watch but then time out and say it can't find the DVR. After a short period of time, it will begin to work again magically. 

One call to customer service to inquire about the thanksgiving all in plan went really bad and a supervisor gave me all in as a consolation prize (for $99, of course, which is fine, no complaints)

Another call went bad with a mouthy rep who had zero empathy for my issue at hand, and when transferred to her supervisor, got even worse after telling me I didn't need to know the previous reps name, wouldn't give me any other contact information or let me speak to someone else, etc.

I'm a nice guy, it may not seem like it due to 2 supervisor calls, but I don't like rude customer service people. No, I didn't scream at the reps or curse, etc... wasn't a total ass to them. I work in IT and QA, so customer service really hits home for me. It's something TiVo has totally missed. Executive relations seemed all to happy to just "send me" a slide remote (great, something I didn't want to begin with!) but didn't chase me to follow up on my issues/problems, etc. Was a very slam bam thank you mam experience with their exec relations team, something I truly didn't expect.

With the iOS app, if anyone is familiar with the "loading wheel" that iOS does when loading information, when I'd load the TiVo app and tap My Shows, it would just load and load and load, endlessly, whether I was on my own network or LTE or at Starbucks (for example).... A reboot of the TiVo would fix it, but the issue would reappear after a few days. 

TiVo support has blamed all of this on my network, which I admit, isn't your average Linksys router, but after going to Walmart last night and buying a Netgear something or other, the issues persist, so they are advance replacing me with a TiVo, at a cost (temporarily at least) of $641 dollars, roughly. We will see if that fixes the issue, but faith is not inspired just yet.

We bought a Roamo Plus for my Dad for Christmas and a Mini and I'm thinking of returning it and selling the Roamio Pro I have. Working with TiVo is like working with a cable company, but worse. I've had some poor experiences with Comcast, but never like this....it's maddening, sad, and frustrating at the same time. 

Does anyone have any suggestions, thoughts?


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## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

Sorry to hear you drew the short straw as far as your customer support experience. I've called them twice and each time, they were a pleasure to work with. 

For me, I'm a cable tv cord cutter and I wanted a good DVR and in my research Tivo is the only DVR I would consider, but if I had terrible experiences, I guess I'd think twice, as well.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Does your Tivo have a wired network connection?
Are you able to stream from built in streaming service like youtube locally on the Tivo? 
Are you able to stream from the Tivo to a mini, which also needs a wired network connection?


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

shwru980r said:


> Does your Tivo have a wired network connection?
> Are you able to stream from built in streaming service like youtube locally on the Tivo?
> Are you able to stream from the Tivo to a mini, which also needs a wired network connection?


TiVo is wired, computer in this example is also wired.

We haven't connected the TiVo Mini yet as it's a gift that goes along with the tivo roamio plus we bought.

Yes, youtube, amazon, pandora etc work.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

lgnad said:


> is your roamio connected to your network via wireless, ethernet or moca?


The roamio is wired... no moca... never ever!


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

tbonecopper said:


> The roamio is wired... no moca... never ever!


i deleted my question cuase i was slow to post and saw you had already replied.... ive got the flu and am pretty wrecked on medications lol

Does the Roamio's ethernet hop through any ethernet switches? there used to be a few models (older generation "green" rated units) that sometimes gave tivo's problems.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

lgnad said:


> i deleted my question cuase i was slow to post and saw you had already replied.... ive got the flu and am pretty wrecked on medications lol
> 
> Does the Roamio's ethernet hop through any ethernet switches? there used to be a few models (older generation "green" rated units) that sometimes gave tivo's problems.


Ugh... The flu is just awful.. I hope you feel better!

Yes and no.... initially the roamio was connected to a switch which is connected to a switch, which is connected to another switch which goes to the router. We have a very unique home network in that our internet is fiber. The fiber comes in after the ONT (optical network terminal) on the side of the house as straight ethernet, no modem, no bridge.. So that goes to a router which has 2 ports - each is on their own VLAN segment. We only use the one though. Then it goes to a PoE switch which powers 3 wireless access points mounted on my ceiling, and a 4th port connects to the main switch.

So, visually:

Internet > Router > Switch > cable to another switch > TiVo. I have a blog post with a nifty diagram here: http://www.disobeyers.com/blog/2015/8/4/overhauling-my-home-with-ubiquity-gear should you be curious about it.

That said, the the last day or so we have had the TiVo and My computer connected directly to the "replacement/test" netgear router, no switches, and the issue persisted.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

tbonecopper said:


> TiVo is wired, computer in this example is also wired.
> 
> We haven't connected the TiVo Mini yet as it's a gift that goes along with the tivo roamio plus we bought.
> 
> Yes, youtube, amazon, pandora etc work.


You can always do a clear and delete everything on the mini and the plus after you test them. It would be highly unlikely that you bought two new tivos with the same network issue.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

shwru980r said:


> You can always do a clear and delete everything on the mini and the plus after you test them. It would be highly unlikely that you bought two new tivos with the same network issue.


Well, we haven't hooked up the second tivo yet... so it's just this one that has the issue so far.

Edit: I see what you meant, sorry  It'll be after Christmas when that happens.. in the interim 15 days, I'd like to have my own tivo working, lol


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

Just for the heck of it, how does the TiVo operate on wifi?


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

andyw715 said:


> Just for the heck of it, how does the TiVo operate on wifi?


Couldn't tell you, I've never tried to be honest. We don't have fancy wifi, it's limited to 300 Mb/s due to the way the access points are configured. I wouldn't trust much more than a tablet over it, to be honest.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

tbonecopper said:


> Couldn't tell you, I've never tried to be honest. We don't have fancy wifi, it's limited to 300 Mb/s due to the way the access points are configured. I wouldn't trust much more than a tablet over it, to be honest.


Well if it "worked" (TiVo online access/app access/TiVo service call) over wifi then you could chalk up issues as 
1) Ethernet port issues on TiVo
2) some network access issue. Ports/firewall/internal routing issues.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

andyw715 said:


> Well if it "worked" (TiVo online access/app access/TiVo service call) over wifi then you could chalk up issues as
> 1) Ethernet port issues on TiVo
> 2) some network access issue. Ports/firewall/internal routing issues.


That is a fair point, but on two routers with the issue persisting? Not opposed to trying it.... won't be tonight, but I will try it tomorrow.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> Ugh... The flu is just awful.. I hope you feel better!
> 
> Yes and no.... initially the roamio was connected to a switch which is connected to a switch, which is connected to another switch which goes to the router. We have a very unique home network in that our internet is fiber. The fiber comes in after the ONT (optical network terminal) on the side of the house as straight ethernet, no modem, no bridge.. So that goes to a router which has 2 ports - each is on their own VLAN segment. We only use the one though. Then it goes to a PoE switch which powers 3 wireless access points mounted on my ceiling, and a 4th port connects to the main switch.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is some network! And for one house? Impressive.

Preamble: I think you need to get whoever put your network in to help you troubleshoot this problem. See why below.

As someone who dabbles in TCP/IP networking issues (just solved a problem in Almhult where the AIX box needed to disable Nagle in order to eliminate a 200ms lag bringing the response time down from ~220ms down to 5ms) I'll say you may have your work cut out for you. You do not by any chance have a hardware network sniffer that you can span the switch ports with? Because I'll say I've seen my fair share of switch issues that without the right gear will be impossible to figure out. Especially as video streaming tends to ferret out switch issues especially over time as you have noted it works but then dies. When you reboot the Tivo it resets the switch port at the same time which brings you back to a nominal working initial state.

First things first make sure all the switches have the latest firmware applied. Note that doesn't necessarily mean you have the best firmware. Back in 2007 one of the telcos I worked with in St Louis had to physically replace their Cisco switches in Dallas due to a hardware bug that no firmware was going to fix.

So what are some of the problems the sniffer might ferret out for you? The most common one I've seen and again it is while the switch is under load and over time where the switch begins to fail (typically firmware bug) and send retransmission packets, typically on the return response but I've seen it on the request side too though not as often. Without the sniffer you will never know this is happening as it happens at the switch and TCP/IP driver layer and will have the same result as it will appear that the Tivo just falls off the network when it is really a network issue as the retransmission rate skyrockets making it look like the Tivo is nonresponsive. Sometimes this can be fixed by updating switch firmware (as was the case in Turku but unfortunately for them the test network was on the same switch as production so they needed to take a production outage to upgrade it! Betcha they took test off the production switch at the same time too). Sometimes just cabling into another switch port can fix the problem if it is a bad port.

Bad cable/port connection can also mimic this as retransmissions will occur. It could also be inter-switch in your layout with so many switches. So you'll need to span each switch port in the route to see if this is happening.

I assume all the switches/routers are Gigabit? Most are these days. However, make sure anywhere you can fix the TCP/IP negotiation to not be auto-negotiate. I've seen some places where the host and the switch port auto-negotiate themselves down to 10Mbps, half duplex which will cause all sorts of performance issues. You want them to be set to 1Gbps full duplex and auto-negotiate goes out the window.

Can you test your network with traceroute? Make sure the forward and return paths from the entry point router all follow the same path. Though rare I've seen return paths be one or two hops longer due to misconfiguration at one of the switches. I'm not familiar with EdgeMax but most high end routers have some capability either at command line or from an admin page to do traceroutes. Then do a traceroute from the computer to the router. Probably want to also plug the computer into the Tivo's switch and run traceroute from there.

One final problem I've seen in Nashville was one of the switches in the path fails with flow control enabled (caused retransmissions) but worked when it was disabled. That one was a bear to find because we had 8 switches from the external facing production to the server that was having issues.

There is one problem I've seen where people have moved from 1G to 10G interfaces but you'd have to have real high end commercial switches to have that problem.

Is there any way you can hang the Roamio off the EdgeMax router and recreate? I would also want the computer wired into the same EdgeMax too. This way you'll eliminate many of the above possible scenarios. If that still fails then Tivo support should help you figure out what is wrong. If it doesn't recreate you need the folks that installed that network infrastructure to help you troubleshoot this.

I guess it would behoove Tivo to add retransmission detection to their TCP/IP layer drivers and send alerts when it sees them. This would at the very least help people understand they have a network problem. But, in your case, if the retransmissions are happening inter-switch Tivo won't see that.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

aspexil said:


> Wow, that is some network! And for one house? Impressive.
> 
> Preamble: I think you need to get whoever put your network in to help you troubleshoot this problem. See why below.


Yep, just for one house, We just have a lot of gadgets and prefer to keep as many wired as we can. As far as contacting the person who did it, you're "talking" to him, lol



aspexil said:


> As someone who dabbles in TCP/IP networking issues (just solved a problem in Almhult where the AIX box needed to disable Nagle in order to eliminate a 200ms lag bringing the response time down from ~220ms down to 5ms) I'll say you may have your work cut out for you. You do not by any chance have a hardware network sniffer that you can span the switch ports with? Because I'll say I've seen my fair share of switch issues that without the right gear will be impossible to figure out. Especially as video streaming tends to ferret out switch issues especially over time as you have noted it works but then dies. When you reboot the Tivo it resets the switch port at the same time which brings you back to a nominal working initial state.


No, but I can obtain one.



aspexil said:


> First things first make sure all the switches have the latest firmware applied. Note that doesn't necessarily mean you have the best firmware. Back in 2007 one of the telcos I worked with in St Louis had to physically replace their Cisco switches in Dallas due to a hardware bug that no firmware was going to fix.


All but one of the switches are unmanaged. There is no need or ability to update the firmware on them. I have replaced 2 of them already just to see if something was wrong, and in one instance by passed them all together, connecting a "consumer grade" router to my internet connection, then the tivo and my computer directly to it and the issue persisted.



aspexil said:


> So what are some of the problems the sniffer might ferret out for you? The most common one I've seen and again it is while the switch is under load and over time where the switch begins to fail (typically firmware bug) and send retransmission packets, typically on the return response but I've seen it on the request side too though not as often. Without the sniffer you will never know this is happening as it happens at the switch and TCP/IP driver layer and will have the same result as it will appear that the Tivo just falls off the network when it is really a network issue as the retransmission rate skyrockets making it look like the Tivo is nonresponsive. Sometimes this can be fixed by updating switch firmware (as was the case in Turku but unfortunately for them the test network was on the same switch as production so they needed to take a production outage to upgrade it! Betcha they took test off the production switch at the same time too). Sometimes just cabling into another switch port can fix the problem if it is a bad port.
> 
> Bad cable/port connection can also mimic this as retransmissions will occur. It could also be inter-switch in your layout with so many switches. So you'll need to span each switch port in the route to see if this is happening.
> 
> ...


Could be cables, but I doubt. I tried a few sets when my network was disconnected and it was just that netgear router to my PC and tivo. Can trace with traceroute directly from the managed switch and the router, and it was fine, no packetloss. Also, packet capture didn't show any issues when performed at router and switch level. All but one switch is gigabit, and the non gigabit switch is at the very end of a link that the tvio isn't connected to.



aspexil said:


> One final problem I've seen in Nashville was one of the switches in the path fails with flow control enabled (caused retransmissions) but worked when it was disabled. That one was a bear to find because we had 8 switches from the external facing production to the server that was having issues.
> 
> There is one problem I've seen where people have moved from 1G to 10G interfaces but you'd have to have real high end commercial switches to have that problem.
> 
> ...


I can plug the tivo into the edgemax, but nothing else. It only has eth0 (for WAN) and eth1 and eth2, which are each separated by a vlan, and the tivo won't work with that. I can create a software bridge and bridge eth1 and eth2 as a switch, but it's in software and it's very much not recommended because of performance and possible reliability issues.


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

Not to ignore aspexil's thorough post, above, but I've experienced significant networking fubaredness for a while with my Roamio Plus, including:

Inability to connect to Netflix, despite passing the connection tests internal to the netflix app. This occurs even when the TiVo is directly connected to my cable modem. Other devices on the same switch (once returned to the normal wiring layout), can stream Netflix without issue. This has been investigated by folks at Netflix and someone Margaret assigned, but no resolution has been forthcoming.

Occasional inability of iOS devices to stay connected long enough to stream a whole show without dropping and needing to reset the stream device. This is over an AC-1900 network to a 5S, 6S, and an iPad Air located within 15 feet of the AP. Drops are usually, but not always, triggered by the 30-second skip button.

Inability of an iOS device (the 6S) to schedule recordings- the app hangs, loses connection to the TiVo, then throws an error when I confirm the scheduled recording. Two of the three recordings did subsequently appear in the ToDo list. (This one has not recurred since I deleted and reinstalled the TiVo app over the weekend.)

None of this sheds much light on OP's problem and I don't intend this as a thread jack. Just wanted to note that I've jumped through a lot of the same networking hoops, down to physically swapping cat6 cables, and the problems persist. At some point, we need to invoke _lex parsimoniae_.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

duncan7 said:


> At some point, we need to invoke _lex parsimoniae_.


Which is why I have a 24 port switch on order to eliminate switch issues  Well, at least between the tivo and the rotuer that is.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> Yep, just for one house, We just have a lot of gadgets and prefer to keep as many wired as we can. As far as contacting the person who did it, you're "talking" to him, lol
> 
> ...
> 
> I can plug the tivo into the edgemax, but nothing else. It only has eth0 (for WAN) and eth1 and eth2, which are each separated by a vlan, and the tivo won't work with that. I can create a software bridge and bridge eth1 and eth2 as a switch, but it's in software and it's very much not recommended because of performance and possible reliability issues.


LOL well impressed with your networking skills. I only have one switch in our house although at this point we've only been here 2 months. I'm waiting on cable mapping tool to arrive today so I can figure out why I have 10 ethernet cables in the utility room but only 3 jacks in the house! I may end up with more switches myself.

Will be interesting to see the iptrace/tcpdump data from the network sniffer. I use Wireshark for reading those. Be aware there is a CRC thing that trips people up which is because of CRC offboarding.

Odd the problem persisted with just a router.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

aspexil said:


> LOL well impressed with your networking skills. I only have one switch in our house although at this point we've only been here 2 months. I'm waiting on cable mapping tool to arrive today so I can figure out why I have 10 ethernet cables in the utility room but only 3 jacks in the house! I may end up with more switches myself.
> 
> Will be interesting to see the iptrace/tcpdump data from the network sniffer. I use Wireshark for reading those. Be aware there is a CRC thing that trips people up which is because of CRC offboarding.
> 
> Odd the problem persisted with just a router.


Not sure when your house was built, but when they built ours they used cat5e when they ran for phone, which is why we had so many extra wires left over... ended up doing new runs with cat6 in the end, giving us a world of opportunity in terms of plugs  You may have a central cabinet box in a closet somewhere where it terminates


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tbonecopper said:


> TiVo is wired, computer in this example is also wired.
> 
> ...


DHCP or fixed IP address assigned at the device itself (as opposed to giving the router any say in the matter, like telling it the MAC and telling it what IP address to give it)?


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

unitron said:


> DHCP or fixed IP address assigned at the device itself (as opposed to giving the router any say in the matter, like telling it the MAC and telling it what IP address to give it)?


The Roamio pro and plus seem to have 1 ethernet and 2 MAC addresses, one for the tivo and the other for the built in stream. Both have been assigned at the router level to give <this mac> and <this mac> <this IP> and <this ip>. It's much easier to deal with at the router on a MAC level than at a device level, imo. In the router, if you pulled the config file, it would look like this:


```
dhcp-server {
        disabled false
        hostfile-update disable
        shared-network-name LAN1 {
            authoritative disable
            subnet 10.0.1.0/24 {
                default-router 10.0.1.1
                dns-server 10.0.1.1
                lease 86400
                start 10.0.1.20 {
                    stop 10.0.1.243
                }
                static-mapping LHS {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.11
                    mac-address 00:21:97:43:e6:a9
                }
                static-mapping MT_TiVo {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.13
                    mac-address 00:11:d9:6f:05:21
                }
                static-mapping MT_TiVo_Built_In_Stream {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.14
                    mac-address 00:11:D9:6f:05:22
                }
                static-mapping Slingbox {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.12
                    mac-address 00:13:b6:30:07:f6
                }
                static-mapping ToughSwitch {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.2
                    mac-address 04:18:D6:F1:A5:23
                }
                static-mapping UniFi_Hallway {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.3
                    mac-address 04:18:d6:a8:08:a9
                }
                static-mapping UniFi_LR {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.4
                    mac-address 04:18:d6:a8:0b:ed
                }
                static-mapping UniFi_MBR {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.5
                    mac-address 04:18:d6:a8:07:0e
                }
                static-mapping ZT {
                    ip-address 10.0.1.15
                    mac-address 90:2b:34:98:2e:05
                }
            }
        }
```


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tbonecopper said:


> The Roamio pro and plus seem to have 1 ethernet and 2 MAC addresses, one for the tivo and the other for the built in stream. Both have been assigned at the router level to give <this mac> and <this mac> <this IP> and <this ip>. It's much easier to deal with at the router on a MAC level than at a device level, imo. In the router, if you pulled the config file, it would look like this:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


The idea is to present the router with a a fait acompli, so that it can't screw it up.

Whenever 2 pieces of hardware have to have a conversation about how they're going to do something together, you've got the possibility of things going wrong. HDMI/HDCP being a glaring example.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

unitron said:


> The idea is to present the router with a a fait acompli, so that it can't screw it up.
> 
> Whenever 2 pieces of hardware have to have a conversation about how they're going to do something together, you've got the possibility of things going wrong. HDMI/HDCP being a glaring example.


My understanding of dhcp and tcp/ip handshakes is that the tivo will connect to the network, the router will see a new mac appear, and glaze over it's own list of static mappings before seeing if it needs an IP.. which is the case here. the router facilitates this and the tivo just submits. (that's the non technical description, lol)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> The Roamio pro and plus seem to have 1 ethernet and 2 MAC addresses, one for the tivo and the other for the built in stream. Both have been assigned at the router level to give <this mac> and <this mac> <this IP> and <this ip>. It's much easier to deal with at the router on a MAC level than at a device level, imo. In the router, if you pulled the config file, it would look like this:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


A couple things to consider... Do the hostnames listed above match how the TiVo devices have been named, and you may want to avoid use of special characters in naming your TiVo devices, per this TiVo help page:
*TiVo Mini: Setup: Prepare the host DVR for use with TiVo Mini*
*NOTE:* Avoid using special characters (symbols, language characters, etc.) when naming TiVo devices. Special characters can interfere with the device's visibility on the network and/or cause an error when trying to access the device.​


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> A couple things to consider... Do the hostnames listed above match how the TiVo devices have been named, and you may want to avoid use of special characters in naming your TiVo devices, per this TiVo help page:
> *TiVo Mini: Setup: Prepare the host DVR for use with TiVo Mini*
> *NOTE:* Avoid using special characters (symbols, language characters, etc.) when naming TiVo devices. Special characters can interfere with the device's visibility on the network and/or cause an error when trying to access the device.​


The names listed there are just names for the router, so I can easily find a device in a static mapping list. They don't have any other purpose.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Incidentally, I thought *maybe* the managed switch at the top of my network map, just after the router could be causing an issue, so I've bypassed it for now. The new network map looks like this:


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Tivo is great at recording cabletv. Don't expect more than that and you won't be disappointed.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

trip1eX said:


> Tivo is great at recording cabletv. Don't expect more than that and you won't be disappointed.


I expect the features they build in and advertise to work, that's all. Nothing more.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tbonecopper said:


> I expect the features they build in and advertise to work, that's all. Nothing more.


Then you will be disappointed.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> The names listed there are just names for the router, so I can easily find a device in a static mapping list. They don't have any other purpose.


Sure, but I've seen hostnames entered in a router's static mapping finding their way to devices in the past. I'm not invested enough to research it; just wanted to mention it as a possibility, especially since it would be such an easy thing to change.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Sure, but I've seen hostnames entered in a router's static mapping finding their way to devices in the past. I'm not invested enough to research it; just wanted to mention it as a possibility, especially since it would be such an easy thing to change.


I will admit, I double checked.. but when I pull the client list, (break in thought).... you have a point. I'll get back to you


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> Incidentally, I thought *maybe* the managed switch at the top of my network map, just after the router could be causing an issue, so I've bypassed it for now.


I'm sure it had a purpose, but the single cable in, single cable out made it appear superfluous.

(Great diagrams, pics and wall panel, btw. I have a plywood panel in the basement, but hadn't thought of expanding a section to include pegboard.)


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> I'm sure it had a purpose, but the single cable in, single cable out made it appear superfluous.
> 
> (Great diagrams, pics and wall panel, btw. I have a plywood panel in the basement, but hadn't thought of expanding a section to include pegboard.)


Thanks. It was the easy way of not having to mount things with screws. Zip ties are far easier (imo) and it makes for quick disassembly, maintenance, and reassembly.

The switch I bypassed today is a PoE switch for the 3 access points we have mounted on the ceiling throughout the house. Since it really only needs to do that, the rest of my network doesn't connect through it anymore...

I got tired of consumer grade routers and wireless access points not being enough to cover my house, or having to be rebooted constantly, and simple stuff not working (excluding the tivo, hah)... Ubiquiti was the least expensive route to get what I wanted, though it has come with a price - I am no network guru, so much of the routers features are beyond my knowledge.. it's a learning experience though. Which makes it more fun


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Any way that you can test with the Roamio Plus that you bought for your father? If it's exhibiting the same issue, then it would tend to point to an issue external to the TiVo causing the problem. If it's not, then it would point to hardware issue with your Roamio Pro.


Scott


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

HerronScott said:


> Any way that you can test with the Roamio Plus that you bought for your father? If it's exhibiting the same issue, then it would tend to point to an issue external to the TiVo causing the problem. If it's not, then it would point to hardware issue with your Roamio Pro.
> 
> Scott


That's on my to do list for this weekend


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> Couldn't tell you, I've never tried to be honest. We don't have fancy wifi, it's limited to 300 Mb/s due to the way the access points are configured. I wouldn't trust much more than a tablet over it, to be honest.


I hope your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek when you said that, 300 Mbits/sec is plenty fast for the TiVo.

MOCA also works very well, and I rather like the idea of having my TiVo gear on its own network.

Anyway, I'm not surprised TiVo's CSR's are having problems dealing with your network. I wouldn't expect much from them beyond being able to point you to which ports/protocols their equipment uses so you can adjust your firewall rules accordingly.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

jonw747 said:


> I hope your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek when you said that, 300 Mbits/sec is plenty fast for the TiVo.
> 
> MOCA also works very well, and I rather like the idea of having my TiVo gear on its own network.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not surprised TiVo's CSR's are having problems dealing with your network. I wouldn't expect much from them beyond being able to point you to which ports/protocols their equipment uses so you can adjust your firewall rules accordingly.


hahaha, nah, I've never connected the tivo to our wifi because of the 300 meg limitation. Sorry for the confusion there.

The 2 calls I mentioned that were really bad didn't have anything to do with the networking issues, actually. They were related to other inquiries. I wouldn't really expect tivo to be able to remotely troubleshoot my network (or anything like it) over the phone, to be honest.

After acquiring that netgear router though, I did go through troubleshooting and they concluded it was the tivo itself that was/is defective.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I'd try it with MoCA.

On a side note, why is the configuration in the diagram different than the configuration on the board? The switches are in a different order? Really cool stuff though. Is your WAN Frontier FIOS?


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Bigg said:


> I'd try it with MoCA.
> 
> On a side note, why is the configuration in the diagram different than the configuration on the board? The switches are in a different order? Really cool stuff though. Is your WAN Frontier FIOS?


No MoCa... Just not gonna happen. If TiVo wants to send me the hardware, sure.. but not paying for it.

No, we have a rural phone company of like 25 employees called nefcom.net - in our neighbohood, it's direct fiber...

As far as the photograph on my blog post, I guess I need to take a new photo, but the diagram is more accurate as far as what's connected where and to which device.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tbonecopper said:


> After acquiring that netgear router though, I did go through troubleshooting and they concluded it was the tivo itself that was/is defective.


Just FYI, TiVo Online and streaming to an Android tablet seems to work fine here so far with our new Roamio Pro hardwired to an older Netgear router (WNDR4000) through a cheap DLink DGS-2205 gigabit switch at the TV. Tablet and PC are both using wireless from the Netgear router.

Scott


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> No MoCa... Just not gonna happen. If TiVo wants to send me the hardware, sure.. but not paying for it.


I'd have thought they'd offer the gratis MoCA adapter ahead of the replacement unit.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Have you tried to download any shows from your Roamio Pro to the PC to see if you have any problems? Just curious if that's exhibiting network connectivity issues as well.

Scott


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> I'd have thought they'd offer the gratis MoCA adapter ahead of the replacement unit.


That'd be nice.., but they sent me a free slide remote instead.



HerronScott said:


> Have you tried to download any shows from your Roamio Pro to the PC to see if you have any problems? Just curious if that's exhibiting network connectivity issues as well.
> 
> Scott


Negative. I don't have tivo for desktop, and I haven't had time to fiddle with the 3rd party options out there, to be honest, pytivo etc.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tbonecopper said:


> Negative. I don't have tivo for desktop, and I haven't had time to fiddle with the 3rd party options out there, to be honest, pytivo etc.


You can download directly from the TiVo's web page without TiVo Desktop or a 3rd party tool.

https://<ipaddress>

Username is tivo and password is your MAK without dashes.

Scott


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> We bought a Roamo Plus for my Dad for Christmas and a Mini and I'm thinking of returning it and selling the Roamio Pro I have. Working with TiVo is like working with a cable company, but worse. I've had some poor experiences with Comcast, but never like this....it's maddening, sad, and frustrating at the same time.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions, thoughts?


For you, I think you already have the best idea.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

With TiVo, it either works without much hassle or it doesn't. There are many potential problems and they can be caused by several sources, including the cable co and/or defects in CableCARD, Tuning Adapter, network issues or the TiVo itself. You can't rely on any one entity to diagnose and fix a problem and frequently you're caught in the middle of the finger pointing.

Thus if you have a tricky problem you're faced with having to become an expert troubleshooter --- or just giving up. This forum is full of expert troubleshooters and most of them will try to help you. But some problems, even after hours of such assisted effort, fail to yield.

Sad but true.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

HerronScott said:


> You can download directly from the TiVo's web page without TiVo Desktop or a 3rd party tool.
> 
> https://<ipaddress>
> 
> ...


Hmm both of the TiVos IP addresses show this page:


http://imgur.com/OHPqccl




dlfl said:


> With TiVo, it either works without much hassle or it doesn't. There are many potential problems and they can be caused by several sources, including the cable co and/or defects in CableCARD, Tuning Adapter, network issues or the TiVo itself. You can't rely on any one entity to diagnose and fix a problem and frequently you're caught in the middle of the finger pointing.
> 
> Thus if you have a tricky problem you're faced with having to become an expert troubleshooter --- or just giving up. This forum is full of expert troubleshooters and most of them will try to help you. But some problems, even after hours of such assisted effort, fail to yield.
> 
> Sad but true.


An excellent summary, thanks... I'm a very determined person, so somehow, I'll find a solution. In the end, I may have to give in and buy a slingbox (which is actually why I bought a tivo; I have a slingbox from way back in the day and wanted to upgrade, but those blasted ads slingmedia has put in.. ugh )


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tbonecopper said:


> Hmm both of the TiVos IP addresses show this page:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/OHPqccl
> ...


Did you make sure you went to the "https:\\" secure page and not the regular "http:\\"?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Did you make sure you went to the "https:\\" secure page and not the regular "http:\\"?


Yep, HarperVision has it since that's what you get when you go to the http web page.

Scott


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> An excellent summary, thanks... I'm a very determined person, so somehow, I'll find a solution. In the end, I may have to give in and buy a slingbox (which is actually why I bought a tivo; I have a slingbox from way back in the day and wanted to upgrade, but those blasted ads slingmedia has put in..


A single MoCA adapter *is* cheaper than a Slingbox -- though a Slingbox would allow out-of-home access to protected content.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> No MoCa... Just not gonna happen. If TiVo wants to send me the hardware, sure.. but not paying for it.


The Roamio Pro and Minis have it built-in, so as long as you have coax cable available, it shouldn't cost you anything to set up. You can plug an Ethernet cable into the Roamio Pro, which will put the Roamio Pro and all the Minis online. The Minis, however, will NOT bridge.



> No, we have a rural phone company of like 25 employees called nefcom.net - in our neighbohood, it's direct fiber...


Nice. So they hand right off to Ethernet on an ONT? Their prices are kind of terrible on their website. Do they also do VDSL? Do you not have access to cable? It looks like Comcast or BHN would blow them out of the water.



> As far as the photograph on my blog post, I guess I need to take a new photo, but the diagram is more accurate as far as what's connected where and to which device.


Ah ok.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> The Roamio Pro and Minis have it built-in, so as long as you have coax cable available, it shouldn't cost you anything to set up. You can plug an Ethernet cable into the Roamio Pro, which will put the Roamio Pro and all the Minis online. The Minis, however, will NOT bridge.


My recommendation for a separate MoCA adapter was to take the issue of any TiVo device's Ethernet connectivity out of the equation. With a separate MoCA adapter acting as the MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge, all TiVo networking would be confined to MoCA and the coaxial lines, and the only Ethernet link would be between the non-TiVo MoCA adapter's Ethernet port and the home LAN, ideally directly into the main switch or router.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Sorry for the delay  I was out today doing some last minute shopping.. I had to drive across the city to 3 xfinity stores to get a cablecard for the roamio plus... tedious process.



HarperVision said:


> Did you make sure you went to the "https:\\" secure page and not the regular "http:\\"?


No, I failed to take that into account,  Will give that a try!



Bigg said:


> The Roamio Pro and Minis have it built-in, so as long as you have coax cable available, it shouldn't cost you anything to set up. You can plug an Ethernet cable into the Roamio Pro, which will put the Roamio Pro and all the Minis online. The Minis, however, will NOT bridge.
> 
> Nice. So they hand right off to Ethernet on an ONT? Their prices are kind of terrible on their website. Do they also do VDSL? Do you not have access to cable? It looks like Comcast or BHN would blow them out of the water.
> 
> Ah ok.


Yes, handoff right from the ONT. Yes, they do VDSL2 in some areas of the city, but I think their speeds are limited to 50 meg or so. I've not heard good thing about their copper-based service, we got lucky that we were in a fiber to the home neighborhood. Really, we pay about 70 a month for 100/100 with no caps and a static IP (before tax). No tv, just internet or phone... we were banished from comcast's internet some time ago after downloading too much within a month (this was years ago, like 6-7 years probably) and just never went back. If I had to switch ISPs now, I'd get comcast business, just due to the cap. We push a few terabytes up and down a month from our house... comcast residential would be too costly with overages.



krkaufman said:


> My recommendation for a separate MoCA adapter was to take the issue of any TiVo device's Ethernet connectivity out of the equation. With a separate MoCA adapter acting as the MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge, all TiVo networking would be confined to MoCA and the coaxial lines, and the only Ethernet link would be between the non-TiVo MoCA adapter's Ethernet port and the home LAN, ideally directly into the main switch or router.


I'll consider moca as long as I don't have to buy anything else, lol... why would I need to bridge a tivo mini? unless you mean acting as a internet gateway of sorts, for the tivos.. like in reverse?


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Now that I think about it, exactly how would MoCA benefit me in this situation? Thus far I'm not having issues streaming/transferring shows to or from the other TiVo Roamio or the Mini, as they aren't connected.... only to my computer (phone isn't a *huge* deal, I'd like it to work, but I won't move heaven and or earth for it to happen)... 

My computer isn't on MoCA, so the streaming would still be taking place over the ethernet port on the tivo.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> Now that I think about it, exactly how would MoCA benefit me in this situation? Thus far I'm not having issues streaming/transferring shows to or from the other TiVo Roamio or the Mini, as they aren't connected.... only to my computer (phone isn't a *huge* deal, I'd like it to work, but I won't move heaven and or earth for it to happen)...
> 
> My computer isn't on MoCA, *so the streaming would still be taking place over the ethernet port on the tivo.*


Only if you're using the Roamio Plus as your MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge device. Were you to use a separate, standalone MoCA adapter, all TiVo traffic to non-TiVo devices and the Internet would be through the Ethernet port of the MoCA adapter (assuming all TiVo devices were configured to network via MoCA).

Given all the issues being reported after the 20.5.6 update, I can't say if it would help at all relative to your specific issue(s), but it *would* take the whole "TiVo doesn't support switches" rationalization out of the conversation.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Only if you're using the Roamio Plus as your MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge device. Were you to use a separate, standalone MoCA adapter, all TiVo traffic to non-TiVo devices and the Internet would be through the Ethernet port of the MoCA adapter (assuming all TiVo devices were configured to network via MoCA).
> 
> Given all the issues being reported after the 20.5.5 update, I can't say if it would help at all relative to your specific issue(s), but it *would* take the whole "TiVo doesn't support switches" rationalization out of the conversation.


The 20.5.5 update being the one that brought channel logos to the guide? This was going on before that.. actually, ever since I brought the tivo home, which has been maybe 45-50 days?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> The 20.5.5 update being the one that brought channel logos to the guide? This was going on before that.. actually, ever since I brought the tivo home, which has been maybe 45-50 days?


The .5 was a typo, but, yeah, the timeline doesn't work.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> The .5 was a typo, but, yeah, the timeline doesn't work.


No worries.. It seems my tivo has been deactivated, something I didn't expect.... but probably because they are sending me a new one. Unfortunately it won't be here until late next week so, will have to find alternate means of obtaining my weekly tv shows 

For now, I'm going to try and take all of this in and have positive thoughts for this new replacement device, despite the fact that it's refurbished. Hopefully refurbished tivos are like refurbished macs. I.e. going through a more stringent QA process.

Also, since I have the new cablecard for the other tivo, I can get it (and maybe the mini if I have time) up and running, then boxed away for Christmas.

I haven't really thanked anyone except with that button, but I do appreciate everyone listening to me rant and such about this.. it's super frustrating to have to deal with, I'm sure the people at TiVo are tired of it too lol


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> No worries.. It seems my tivo has been deactivated, something I didn't expect.... but probably because they are sending me a new one. Unfortunately it won't be here until late next week so, will have to find alternate means of obtaining my weekly tv shows


That seems extra insane. If they're doing the advance replacement shipment, your existing unit should NOT have been deactivated. They should get that turned back on for you.

(Especially if the refurb/replacement doesn't perform any better relative to the issue you're having, there'd be no reason to snuff your original. Just send the replacement back.)


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Yea, they said the transfer of services wouldn't happen until I called to activate the new one. They are closed now though, so can't fix it until tomorrow.

Sorry for the potato image  I don't have an HD slingbox lol



http://imgur.com/Qy8Hka9


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> My recommendation for a separate MoCA adapter was to take the issue of any TiVo device's Ethernet connectivity out of the equation. With a separate MoCA adapter acting as the MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge, all TiVo networking would be confined to MoCA and the coaxial lines, and the only Ethernet link would be between the non-TiVo MoCA adapter's Ethernet port and the home LAN, ideally directly into the main switch or router.


Ah, I see. MoCA would still avoid any issues with the home LAN setup if that's causing issues. MoCA is about as simple as it gets, and it would effectively put all of the TiVos on one Ethernet port from the main LAN.

If there was an issue with the Roamio Pro's Ethernet connectivity, as long as everything could hit the DHCP server, after that everything should work, since it would be running directly over MoCA, never hitting Ethernet.



tbonecopper said:


> Yes, handoff right from the ONT. Yes, they do VDSL2 in some areas of the city, but I think their speeds are limited to 50 meg or so. I've not heard good thing about their copper-based service, we got lucky that we were in a fiber to the home neighborhood. Really, we pay about 70 a month for 100/100 with no caps and a static IP (before tax). No tv, just internet or phone... we were banished from comcast's internet some time ago after downloading too much within a month (this was years ago, like 6-7 years probably) and just never went back. If I had to switch ISPs now, I'd get comcast business, just due to the cap. We push a few terabytes up and down a month from our house... comcast residential would be too costly with overages.


DUH! I'm an idiot.  You have a Roamio Pro, so you'd have to have either cable or FIOS available! That's not too bad pricing wise. It's not quite as fast as Comcast's 150/10, but still quite respectable. It sounds like your area has caps. Here, we get internet way cheaper as part of a Triple Play, but we don't have caps so we don't have to pay their ridiculous $30 or $35/mo price gouging to get Unlimited internet. The FTC needs to investigate their practices, but that's another story.



> I'll consider moca as long as I don't have to buy anything else, lol... why would I need to bridge a tivo mini? unless you mean acting as a internet gateway of sorts, for the tivos.. like in reverse?


No. If you have a MoCA network with a TiVo or adapter bridging, and you put a Premiere 4 or Roamio Plus/Pro in another room, you can use that TiVo as a bridge to put other stuff like a smart TV or Roku onto your network via the TiVo's MoCA connection. The Mini cannot bridge like that. It sounds like you have Ethernet everywhere anyway, so you wouldn't want that type of functionality.



tbonecopper said:


> Now that I think about it, exactly how would MoCA benefit me in this situation? Thus far I'm not having issues streaming/transferring shows to or from the other TiVo Roamio or the Mini, as they aren't connected.... only to my computer (phone isn't a *huge* deal, I'd like it to work, but I won't move heaven and or earth for it to happen)...
> 
> My computer isn't on MoCA, so the streaming would still be taking place over the ethernet port on the tivo.


Yeah, it wouldn't then, unless you use a MoCA adapter that would allow you in effect bypass the TiVo's Ethernet port. However, it works sometimes, and it can get on the internet itself, so that smells like a LAN problem, not a TiVo problem. It's possible that something went awry in TiVo's software though.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Ah, I see. MoCA would still avoid any issues with the home LAN setup if that's causing issues. MoCA is about as simple as it gets, and it would effectively put all of the TiVos on one Ethernet port from the main LAN.


Right, one Ethernet connection -- and it wouldn't be a TiVo Ethernet port (sticking w/ the separate MoCA adapter suggestion), which would exclude the "TiVo doesn't support switches" nonsense.



> If there was an issue with the Roamio Pro's Ethernet connectivity, as long as everything could hit the DHCP server, after that everything should work, since it would be running directly over MoCA, never hitting Ethernet.


Again, the point of using the separate MoCA adapter was so that NO TiVo Ethernet port would matter. The Roamio Pro's Ethernet port would be unused.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Right, one Ethernet connection -- and it wouldn't be a TiVo Ethernet port (sticking w/ the separate MoCA adapter suggestion), which would exclude the "TiVo doesn't support switches" nonsense.
> 
> Again, the point of using the separate MoCA adapter was so that NO TiVo Ethernet port would matter. The Roamio Pro's Ethernet port would be unused.


I can test MoCA, but in the end, It won't let me stream content from the tivo on my computer without ethernet.

That said, if I have my roamio pro acting as the main gateway for the other tivo which could be over moca, could I still select content from the moca tivo via the phone or website to stream? or is it limited to the ethernet connected tivo only?


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Interestingly, I spent the last hour or so setting up the Roamio Plus.. While I goofed on activating the cable card, I did manage to get the tivo itself setup. And during setup, it connected once (as it should), it did it's thing and when it came back after a restart, it said there was an update. 

It tried to connect and failed due to a networking error. So I tried again, then it worked.

I'm pretty sure it's my router at this point, not the tivo unit(s), since this newly connected and configured box failed to connect... 

The roamio plus was connected via a working and known good ethernet cable.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tbonecopper said:


> I can test MoCA, but in the end, It won't let me stream content from the tivo on my computer without ethernet.


Not sure what you mean, here. Using my previous hypothetical of a single MoCA adapter acting as the MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge, all the TiVos would still network as they do now, they'd just talk to each other strictly over MoCA but any communications with non-TiVo devices would pass through the MoCA adapter to the Ethernet segment and onward. It should be transparent to your PC.

The Roamio Pro could also act as the MoCA bridge; I'm just suggesting a separate MoCA adapter in order to eliminate any TiVo Ethernet port being part of the solution in order to snuff the rationalization offered by support that they don't support Ethernet switches.



tbonecopper said:


> That said, if I have my roamio pro acting as the main gateway for the other tivo which could be over moca, could I still select content from the moca tivo via the phone or website to stream? or is it limited to the ethernet connected tivo only?


Yes. If the MoCA network is setup and working properly, how the TiVos are physically connected should be transparent.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Not sure what you mean, here. Using my previous hypothetical of a single MoCA adapter acting as the MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge, all the TiVos would still network as they do now, they'd just talk to each other strictly over MoCA but any communications with non-TiVo devices would pass through the MoCA adapter to the Ethernet segment and onward. It should be transparent to your PC.
> 
> The Roamio Pro could also act as the MoCA bridge; I'm just suggesting a separate MoCA adapter in order to eliminate any TiVo Ethernet port being part of the solution in order to snuff the rationalization offered by support that they don't support Ethernet switches.
> 
> Yes. If the MoCA network is setup and working properly, how the TiVos are physically connected should be transparent.


Excellent, thanks for the info


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tbonecopper said:


> Interestingly, I spent the last hour or so setting up the Roamio Plus.. While I goofed on activating the cable card, I did manage to get the tivo itself setup. And during setup, it connected once (as it should), it did it's thing and when it came back after a restart, it said there was an update.
> 
> It tried to connect and failed due to a networking error. So I tried again, then it worked.
> 
> ...


You still have the consumer router you can test with?

Scott


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

HerronScott said:


> You still have the consumer router you can test with?
> 
> Scott


I will soon, going to buy another one at walmar or bestbuy.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Right, one Ethernet connection -- and it wouldn't be a TiVo Ethernet port (sticking w/ the separate MoCA adapter suggestion), which would exclude the "TiVo doesn't support switches" nonsense.
> 
> Again, the point of using the separate MoCA adapter was so that NO TiVo Ethernet port would matter. The Roamio Pro's Ethernet port would be unused.


Yeah, I re-read the OP. I thought it was Pro to Mini problems, not Pro to PC. For Pro to PC, the MoCA adapter would provide a bypass to the Pro's own Ethernet port.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> I will soon, going to buy another one at walmar or bestbuy.


You might post any screenshots, setups, logs, or other data you're seeing. It might give people an idea to suggest something you've missed.

For instance, I don't think you've mentioned IPv6 so far, but if your gear supports it, maybe it's causing problems? It can cause subtle problems due to the translation that has to go on from ipv4 to ipv6.

Things like inconsistent jumbo frame support and MTU size can cause issues. When troubleshooting, try to reduce/eliminate as much of that sort of thing as possible.

If you can find out which ports the TiVo needs to communicate to, you can potentially test them out manually. If you can't even establish a connection, it's likely something in the chain is blocking. Possibly even your ISP thanks to some draconian policy.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

jonw747 said:


> You might post any screenshots, setups, logs, or other data you're seeing. It might give people an idea to suggest something you've missed.
> 
> For instance, I don't think you've mentioned IPv6 so far, but if your gear supports it, maybe it's causing problems? It can cause subtle problems due to the translation that has to go on from ipv4 to ipv6.
> 
> ...


Today I got a netgear 900, disabled the wireless (we already have wifi access points on the ceiling) and so far it's been working. Though, we will see  I let the tivos have their own ip addresses instead of assigning them myself. Hopefully that helps.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

I didn't read three pages of entries, but here's an idea. You may have touched on it already.

I have a similar network, using a pfSense router I built on a supermicro 1900 motherboard instead of your edgemax lite. (edgemax lite is unreliable due to internal flash drive BTW, but not in this instance. No effect here. I had to throw mine way. FYI)

House is wired cat6. WAP is a Netgear R6300V2. WAP wired into home network.

I had the DVR hanging off the WAP and two minis off other ports in the house and one as moca. Only the moca worked. all could see the DVR. The DVR couldn't see the ethernet minis. Moca worked great.

Eventually went all moca but never figured out why ethernet was a fail.

Wierd, but mini would work if as a wireless client of a travel modem I use from time to time. (Not flowing past WAP, like most common home networks. Consistent with working theory.)

*Current working theory is DVR can't stream past WAP (weird copy protection scheme?). Replace WAP with switch and put WAP onn another port. Make sure no DVR must stream THROUGH a WAP. See if it works ... which it apparently did in your case.*

Best wishes.

This IS a tivo engineering problem. I don't expect them to fix it since it's been around a long time. We're not the first to experience it. Why ... beat's me. Can't recommend tivo to others since our type of network is fairly common.

I have a fairly long recent thread about this, but the trolls finally chased me away.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

jim1971 said:


> I have a fairly long recent thread about this, but the trolls finally chased me away.


That is hilarious, given that you were the troll. You rejected every suggestion that was put forth by others, usually by disparaging them with personal attacks.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

jim1971 said:


> I didn't read three pages of entries, but here's an idea. You may have touched on it already.
> 
> I have a similar network, using a pfSense router I built on a supermicro 1900 motherboard instead of your edgemax lite. (edgemax lite is unreliable due to internal flash drive BTW, but not in this instance. No effect here. I had to throw mine way. FYI)
> 
> ...


Similar, but mine hangs off a switch connected to the router... instead of WAP. I could totally see how that could cause a problem, if it were on a different network segment or vlan (hanging off a WAP)... are you certain it wasn't on a different subnet?


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## dsando (Sep 12, 2015)

You may want to check whatever your using as a core router for Web Proxy, Content Filter, Access Control, etc.

I use ClearOS on a Linux box and had some crazy issues connecting to Tivo until I set the IP's of the Tivo's to bypass the Web Proxy, etc.

Just tossing ideas, YMMV...

Good luck


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> Today I got a netgear 900, disabled the wireless (we already have wifi access points on the ceiling) and so far it's been working. Though, we will see  I let the tivos have their own ip addresses instead of assigning them myself. Hopefully that helps.


Good. Now you have a sanity check and the TiVo seems to be working as designed and your ISP doesn't seem to blame.

If you want to pursue further, you can start eliminating differences between the two routers, and perhaps explore the possibility of a bug in your main router that may have been fixed in a new revision, or perhaps was introduced in the past and has been lingering around.

It's sometimes useful to factory reset a router and create a config from scratch just to test. Maybe even try upgrading and downgrading the firmware. You can hopefully restore when done, but if things work after a factory reset then at least you know the problem is being caused by an additional setting, the firmware, or perhaps even the load.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jonw747 said:


> It's sometimes useful to factory reset a router and create a config from scratch just to test. Maybe even try upgrading and downgrading the firmware. You can hopefully restore when done, but if things work after a factory reset then at least you know the problem is being caused by an additional setting, the firmware, or perhaps even the load.


Saw this situation recently, here: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10705081


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> Similar, but mine hangs off a switch connected to the router... instead of WAP. I could totally see how that could cause a problem, if it were on a different network segment or vlan (hanging off a WAP)... are you certain it wasn't on a different subnet?


Yes all same subnet. When router is set as wireless access point, no dhcp is available from that router. It's only a wireless access point and a switch. For a network as elaborate as yours, I thought you would know this. Also, R6300V2 sets wan port as lan port, giving 5 lan ports. WAP / switch has been in use for a long time, before Tivo DVR even contemplated, with no problems except for Tivo streaming to mini. Minis had no problem seeing DVR but DVR couldn't communicate with minis. No VLANs in use.

Also, complained in writing to tivo. Got garbled response, but they seem to confirm WAP in middle is a potential problem. Who knows if they know this as fact or 'if it just seemed reasonable'.


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## dsando (Sep 12, 2015)

jim1971 said:


> Tivo claims switches in network are a problem. Since you can't have a network without a switch, this mans tivo on ethernet is hit or miss.


TL;DR
I can only imagine that Tivo would not troubleshoot 'your' problem through multiple switches, as it's not there responsibility to troubleshoot your network for you. You are passing along wrong information. Tivos, Minis, Streams, etc. will absolutely work through properly configured multiple switches. I have seen this at several locations....


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

dsando said:


> TL;DR
> I can only imagine that Tivo would not troubleshoot 'your' problem through multiple switches, as it's not there responsibility to troubleshoot your network for you. You are passing along wrong information. Tivos, Minis, Streams, etc. will absolutely work through properly configured multiple switches. I have seen this at several locations....


I don't have multiple switches. I have 1 at the router that sends the signal over cat6 cable throughout the house. Then there's the WAP / switch. This is by any measure except the most elementary and simplistic, a basic and simple network. What makes it 'impressive' is it's house wired cat6 throughout instead of a kludged together wireless, like most home networks. You can't have a network without a switch. Switches are a fundamental part of networking. Look at any basic networking text.

dsando, switches are innocuous. Tivo had a problem somewhere that makes the mini not as transparent on the network as it should be. My minis could all see the DVR just fine. The DVR couldn't connect with the minis if on Ethernet. This is not a switching problem.

I don't use web proxies or anything complex. The minis could all connect with tivo servers and hulu. I can understand why tivo would have issues with most home wireless networks since most home wireless is dreadful. Wire is another matter. Switches as the problem seem, to me, to be a red herring. Everything else on my network works and has always worked, just fine. Tivo needs to explain their vision of networks better to avoid confusion as intense as this.

As I mentioned above, I can't recommend to a friend they install Tivo until the ethernet part is better documented. Any reasonable person would assume plug and play. My minis have not been that well behaved.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

jim1971 said:


> I had the DVR hanging off the WAP and two minis off other ports in the house and one as moca. Only the moca worked. all could see the DVR. The DVR couldn't see the ethernet minis. Moca worked great.


If by WAP, you mean a router with a disabled router function that's being used as an Ethernet switch and a WAP, then it *shouldn't* function any differently than a regular switch. Of course, things don't always work as they *should* or *shouldn't*.

One of my minis goes through a router and 3 Ethernet switches right now. So it can work properly. Where I am living right now has a giant chain as the network topology, which is completely against all the rules of good network design, but it's good enough that no one feels like pulling more CAT cable, so it's a giant 3-switch daisy-chain off of the router.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Bigg said:


> If by WAP, you mean a router with a disabled router function that's being used as an Ethernet switch and a WAP, then it *shouldn't* function any differently than a regular switch. Of course, things don't always work as they *should* or *shouldn't*.


Exactly what I mean.


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## tbonecopper (Jul 19, 2010)

Just an update:

A few days with the Netgear N900 router (everything else in the network topology is the same) and no issues with the tivo. 

The replacement unit arrived today and I'm debating switching it. They have clearly transferred my lifetime service to it, I wonder if they can switch it back and I just return the refurb? 

We did connect the tivo mini and the other roamio plus to get them activated and ready to go for Christmas unboxing... and they also seemed to work fine with the router. 

Really going to have to dig in to that router's configuration and sort out what could have been causing the issue. So odd.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to hearing if you ever find a root cause.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

tbonecopper said:


> Just an update:
> 
> A few days with the Netgear N900 router (everything else in the network topology is the same) and no issues with the tivo.
> 
> ...


Don't know what to offer except this. Assume network resets and normal occasional issues, such as power outages. Will it reset OK or will there be a new crisis? I, personally, would take the path of least resistance. Re your router: everyone has a different setup. If yours is not unusual than it may not be a router problem. I refuse to believe my problem involves my router or switches since everything up until tivo worked perfectly and some aspects of tivo worked perfectly on ethernet. Good luck. If you figure out more, please pass it along.


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