# How many current UK users?



## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Imagine it's the 1st April 2011, which option best describes you?


Rules:
- assume you've had "the call" and got your shiny new VM TiVo if applicable

- only vote if you currently own a S1 TiVo (we don't want to skew the results by people who haven't had a S1 in years)

- "can't have" means VM cannot supply it to you

- "don't want" means you don't want VM television (e.g. cost) (if "can't have" also applies then choose "can't have")


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Voted albeit my installation wont be for another 8 days roll on the 15th, and I will be wanting to keep both of my 500GB S1 lifetimes going


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

Ditto, install on 18th, but will be relocating old S1 and old Virgin box to 2nd room.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Technically, I haven't had a S1 Tivo for at least six months.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Technically, that would be 0.5 years then.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yes, and?


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## abuelbanat (Jan 8, 2011)

spitfires said:


> Technically, that would be 0.5 years then.


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

I can't get VM and I have already switched to Freesat. The Virgin announcement was the spur to do what I had been sort of planning for a while. I keep my Tivo box connected just to finish off watching the things that were recorded but that I hadn't yet got around to. After that it will be "boxed" as they say in BSG


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## digital_S (May 15, 2002)

"I can't have VM TiVo and want to keep using my S1 TiVo"
(Obviously as soon as we can sort out a new epg download system)


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

"I don't want VM TiVo and want to keep using my S1 TiVo"

VM too expensive. Now with a recent purchase of a FV HD PVR, good but not TiVo, various other satellite receivers and recorders, I'll stick with what I have got for now. Used to manual programming one, but hopefully won't have to the other.


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## keithwr (Mar 6, 2009)

I have Sky+, a VM HD+ due to be replaced by a VMTivo on 22nd feb and 2 hacked (Tivoweb+) networked and disc expanded Tivo S1s. One Tivo is connected to a fressat tuner and the other to a freeview tuner. I want to coninue using my S1s essentially as at present.

Keith


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## swuk (Jan 19, 2004)

"I don't want VM TiVo and want to keep using my S1 TiVo"

Virgin keep pushing up their prices enough already. I'm not glued to my TV, I don't need dual/triple tuners, and having already paid a lifetime subscription, I don't want to be shelling out to upgrade to something that I don't need.

I won't go with a VM Tivo full stop. If I can't make my S1 work by other means, then I'll simply be sticking with my freeview PVR, despite the not-so-good user experience.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

swuk said:


> Virgin keep pushing up their prices enough already.


The last main, overall price increases were two years ago; and the rises this time are very small; so, sorry but I don't agree.


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## sculptor (Jan 7, 2003)

No cable in my area (of Central London).
It seems crazy that the cable network never gets expanded in highly populated areas!

I've had a lifetime sub since 2002 and use the Tivo with an original Sky digibox.
The drive failed a couple of years ago so I bought a new preconfigured drive cachecard and ram from tivoland and fitted those.
I never got round to setting up the networking so the ethernet cable is just hanging out the back of the tivo.

My preferred option is set up the networking and feed guide data to the tivo somehow.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> The last main, overall price increases were two years ago; and the rises this time are very small; so, sorry but I don't agree.


A quick Google showed a round of price rises last April, and another one planned this April. Looks like a pretty steady ratcheting up.

Of course the very cheapest are held so their "From £x" claims are still true.


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## MikeC34 (Mar 2, 2009)

sculptor said:


> No cable in my area (of Central London).
> It seems crazy that the cable network never gets expanded in highly populated areas!
> 
> I've had a lifetime sub since 2002 and use the Tivo with an original Sky digibox.
> ...



I too live in a non-cabled area but probably wouldn't subscribe to VM despite being able to continue with TiVo software. Also lifetime sub since Nov 2000 and new capacity drive with cachecard in 2006 and also have my ethernet cable hanging out the back. So far, having only just had the TiVo message about the shutoff, haven't had much time to think, let alone play with alternatives. Will post details of any achievements should they occur.


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## einstein (Jul 19, 2001)

I have four TiVos, and no cable in my area.

my father also has two TiVos and no cable in his area.

It would seem to me, if you had other options in your area, you probably sold you TiVo long ago!


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## welshpedro (Jun 7, 2002)

I have one lifetime S1 (since 2006 ish, Turbonet, 240Gig etc), 1 Monthly S1 (Turbonet, 240Gig -since 2001, cancelled sub 1 month before it became "free".. DOH !! ), 1 Spare S1 (Bog Standard).

Dont live in Cable area.. unlikely I would get if I did... Experience of being a VM customer in the past still too fresh in the memory..

If some of the clever chaps here come up with a way of getting data (willing to contribute), I'll keep my S1 running... If not its likely to be SKY HD...


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## dmd (Dec 31, 2001)

cwaring said:


> The last main, overall price increases were two years ago; and the rises this time are very small; so, sorry but I don't agree.


I am a VM customer who signed up for a Broadband only service at a house I rent to shared tenants. I had this installed in 2008 at a cost of £9/month. It now costs me £20.75/month. Same service.That is not a small rise.


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## irrelevant (Mar 19, 2002)

No cable here. "Too expensive" for them to add it. An entire inner-city housing estate, some old, lots of new build, full of potential customers, but no...

Paid a tenner a month since 2002, only stopped in October as both my boxes were giving problems, and basically not being used, and I was going to look into getting them fixed. Obviously if I'd known they weren't going to charge us from November, I'd not have bothered stopping.


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## curseyoumoriarty (Feb 17, 2011)

Tivo since 2003, and monthly as well. I live in a great location in Norfolk , so there are two chances of getting any cable (fat and no) , and broadband is max 512K . I also live in a building with a listed South-facing frontage, so no Satellite dishes allowed .

This is a disaster, as the only live TV we ever regularly watch is the news.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

curseyoumoriarty said:


> I also live in a building with a listed South-facing frontage, so no Satellite dishes allowed .


A dish doesnt have to be up high, a pole mouned dish in the garden will work just as well. all you need is line of sight to the satellite. A friend of mine painted his to look like a giant sunflower LOL


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

I wanted to make mine the centre feature in a Japanese ornamental garden


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## swuk (Jan 19, 2004)

cwaring said:


> The last main, overall price increases were two years ago; and the rises this time are very small; so, sorry but I don't agree.


Thanks for your input, but I'll stand by my original statement that they keep pushing up the prices. I don't really care if you think they're small increases or not. They are increases, and they have happened 4 times to my service in the past 2 years.


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## jrg1 (Oct 22, 2002)

not a cabled area. not going to be a cabled area.
what i really want is an updated Tivo.
i don't want to give Rupert more money, any more than keep Mr Branson in Noel Edmonds' old jumpers.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

swuk said:


> Thanks for your input, but I'll stand by my original statement that they keep pushing up the prices. I don't really care if you think they're small increases or not. They are increases, and they have happened 4 times to my service in the past 2 years.


And Sky's prices rise _every year_ without fail; with each pack going up by £1. Get all 6? £6 extra per month.

The point... prices go up. It's not just VM


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## dmd (Dec 31, 2001)

Not necessarily. Broadband prices come down with other companies. An ADSL connection is now far cheaper than it was a few years ago. But somehow the equivalent with VM goes up.


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## afrokiwi (Oct 6, 2001)

There should be an option for "I want a NEW Model Tivo but not on the VM Network"

A am very tempted to ask another question about newer TiVo&#8217;s from down under .. but I wont ...


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

katman said:


> A dish doesnt have to be up high, a pole mouned dish in the garden will work just as well. all you need is line of sight to the satellite. A friend of mine painted his to look like a giant sunflower LOL


You need a Sqishoflage!: http://www.sqish.co.uk/


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

dmd said:


> Not necessarily. Broadband prices come down with other companies. An ADSL connection is now far cheaper than it was a few years ago. But somehow the equivalent with VM goes up.


Many ADSL providers giving 50 or 100 meg connections, are there? 

The point.. price goes up, so does available speed


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## dmd (Dec 31, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Many ADSL providers giving 50 or 100 meg connections, are there?
> 
> The point.. price goes up, so does available speed


Who needs a 100Mb Internet connection? I don't.


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## sculptor (Jan 7, 2003)

dmd said:


> Who needs a 100Mb Internet connection? I don't.


Our line is up to 8mb but it rarely delivers over 2mb.

The bigger problem with broadband is the monthly download limit and fair use policies.
Many also traffic shape in peak time which makes it useless for downloading video.

Cheaper packages often have a 10 to 20gb monthly download limit.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Many ADSL providers giving 50 or 100 meg connections, are there?


None to 50% of us at least


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## curseyoumoriarty (Feb 17, 2011)

Heuer said:


> You need a Sqishoflage!:


Very cunning.

To give you a feel for the problem, we have had to get special planning permission to have secondary glazing for the flat, and that when everything that improves eco footprints is being pushed by government. Although this is Norfolk where you can always see to the horizon (even when lying in a ditch having been run off the road by a tractor) there is nowhere on the ground to disguise it (communal gravel and grass only).

We can't have a TV aerial either because it's funnier to have the TV transmitter in the South as well. Fortunately we're line of site to the mast so we get full Freeview from a coat-hanger on a windowsill.

But Tivo made all of these limitations irrelevant.

I'm just going outside to Maplin to start building my own system with Media Centre...... I might be some time....


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## sculptor (Jan 7, 2003)

MikeC34 said:


> I too live in a non-cabled area but probably wouldn't subscribe to VM despite being able to continue with TiVo software. Also lifetime sub since Nov 2000 and new capacity drive with cachecard in 2006 and also have my ethernet cable hanging out the back. So far, having only just had the TiVo message about the shutoff, haven't had much time to think, let alone play with alternatives. Will post details of any achievements should they occur.


I've now connected my tivo ethernet cable to an airport express unit which connects wirelessly to my router.
I can use Tivoweb on my web browsers now and I can telnet into the tivo.

I'm not sure where I go from here in terms of getting listings via the internet rather than dialup.

I know I have to install tools to be able to do various things but where's the best source of up to date information?

I don't want to screw up what's already working!


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

If you haven't voted in the poll yet please will you do so?


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## richard_hamblen (Nov 7, 2002)

dmd said:


> Not necessarily. Broadband prices come down with other companies. An ADSL connection is now far cheaper than it was a few years ago. But somehow the equivalent with VM goes up.


every friend of mine with ADSL has performance problems. I recon its cheap for a reason.

I've lived in 3 different VM areas over the last 6 years (ex Telewest, NTL and NTL in Northern Ireland) and my broadband has always delivered. Better than that I've always had around 98% of the maximum performance I've purchased.

How many ADSL customers pay for 10MB and get 1 or 2 MB performance??? lots!!!

You have a choice and you can vote from your wallet or you can vote from the level of performance you get.


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## richard_hamblen (Nov 7, 2002)

dmd said:


> I am a VM customer who signed up for a Broadband only service at a house I rent to shared tenants. I had this installed in 2008 at a cost of £9/month. It now costs me £20.75/month. Same service.That is not a small rise.


yes and I would ask whether you were paying the introductory price with 50% discount for 6 months; that's the offer they have had for years.
So actually the cost probably went up from £18 to £20.75

In the last 10+ years I've been with (telewest) VM, I've actually see prices sometime drop and be more competitive. When this has happened, I've spoken nicely to customer services and had the service costs I pay reduced to be in line with published prices.
They won't give the special offer price but they will ensure you are not paying more than the advertised prices.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

richard_hamblen said:


> How many ADSL customers pay for 10MB and get 1 or 2 MB performance??? lots!!!


Most of them, as it happens 
http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/ofcom-broadband-speed-figures-show-stark-truth-705797


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Most of them, as it happens


Eh? That table shoes that on average people on up to 8 get 3-5; not that most of them get 1 or 2?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well, okay. The point was that most people get _a lot_ (around 50%) less.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Interesting that all the copper based ISPs are roughly the same. Although since they all use the same piece of string and equipment at the exchange that's probably not surprising. So not "interesting" at all then really. 


(By which I mean, whether I use Eclipse, Talk Talk or BT, I am using the same equipment in each case. YMMV)


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## irrelevant (Mar 19, 2002)

spitfires said:


> Interesting that all the copper based ISPs are roughly the same. Although since they all use the same piece of string and equipment at the exchange that's probably not surprising. So not "interesting" at all then really.


Not quite - the LLU operators have their own exchange equipment. I noticed an increase in speed of nearly 1Mbps (~5Mpbs -> ~6Mbps, so significant) when I switched a couple of months ago, using the exact same equipment at my end.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

> Not quite - the LLU operators have their own exchange equipment. I noticed an increase in speed of nearly 1Mbps (~5Mpbs -> ~6Mbps, so significant) when I switched a couple of months ago, using the exact same equipment at my end.


OT:

Biggest boost in ADSL speed I got was replacing the cheap and nasty plug in microfilter with an 'in the wall' filter which takes the ADSL signal out before the extension wiring etc. A massive boost of about 2 or 3 Mbps! (it was something like a 4 or 5db improvement in SNR).

I believe that many ISP's now recommend them rather than a plug in micro filter if at all possible.

Now back to the usual programming.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

True but the number of LLU exchanges is... well not very many 

I loved this bit in the report


> John Petter, managing director of BT's Consumer Division, said: "BT already gives customers the most consistently accurate prediction of the speed specific to their line.


Err, like they told me I could get 386 kb (no, don't ask me how they arrived at that number!) when in fact I can almost spit on the exchange and actually get 6.9 Mb. 

.


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

And I imagine aforementioned cable providers might have something to say about that too


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

richard_hamblen said:


> every friend of mine with ADSL has performance problems. I recon its cheap for a reason.


Wrong.

£7.50 a month, unlimited data...


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Ok so what can we learn from this wholly unsound survey?

Of 225 respondents: 48% can get VM, 52% cannot.

(Scarily close to the UK coverage of VM cable at 51%!)


Of those who can get VM, 39% don't want it.

Of those who have moved to VM, 46% still want to keep using their S1.

Of those who can't get VM, 93% want to keep using their TiVo!

5% of respondents have switched to something other than TiVo.


TiVo usage:
Before...
S1 : 225

After...
VM : 65
S1 : 179
Other : 11


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