# Tivo Bolt Vox with Cox Contour...am I setting this up correctly?



## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

I would appreciate any feedback you all have on my plan to switch over to a Tivo DVR. 

After reading several related posts on the Forum, I feel pretty comfortable about the attached setup. That being said...I'd feel better if someone smarter than me checked my work. Please let me know if you see any potential issues, or have any advice.

Thanks in advance!
Chris


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi,
Do you actually have 2 separate coaxes from Cox or is there a 2 way splitter back upstream which feeds both the modem and TV legs?
What is the make and model of your cable modem?
Are you thinking of enabling MoCA on the Bolt or just connect via Ethernet? A more common coax connection would be to place the MoCA filter on the input of the TA itself.
If you have a 2 way feeding both coax feeds, a MoCA filter on it's input would be the most traditional location, than another MoCA filter on the input of the TA, and a possible 3rd filter on the input of the cable modem if it is not MoCA friendly. 
In that configuration, using the Bolt as the source of the MoCA network could eliminate the need for an additional MoCA adapter. 
I also don't understand where the coax is coming from that is connected to the pictured MoCA adapter and then on to the 2 minis which already have MoCA builtin.


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## Okiesnipe (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm with Cox in Tulsa. I tried to activate my new Bolt with a TA and could not get the Bolt to recognize the TA, even with the help from TIVO and Cox Support. Cox finally sent a contract tech from Stillwater where the local cable co. uses Bolts as their tuners. He eliminated the TA, said it is not needed and left. In Tulsa, without the TA the only one of my channels I can not get in HD is CW. Which Cox server will you be on ?
I tried your MoCA network with one Mini and could not get it to work.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Do you actually have 2 separate coaxes from Cox or is there a 2 way splitter back upstream which feeds both the modem and TV legs?
> What is the make and model of your cable modem?
> Are you thinking of enabling MoCA on the Bolt or just connect via Ethernet? A more common coax connection would be to place the MoCA filter on the input of the TA itself.
> ...


Yeah you're right. Those two lines are split upstream.

I'm just going to rent the Panoramic all-in-one Wifi Modem that Cox offers with the service. The website doesn't say the make and model...but here's what it does sayOCSIS 3.0 24x8 cable *modem* with a powerful 4-port gigabit wired router, dual band 802.11 AC *wireless* router, *MoCA* 2.0 for extenders and eMTA for optional phone service.

You kinda lost me after that. I did my best to interpret and update the drawing. Am I getting closer?

I have coax going to the minis to utilize pre-existing wiring without swapping out for Ethernet.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

For Cox Tulsa and Cox Las Vegas I just use one Moca filter on the main line coming into both homes before it splits to the various rooms around the house. 

Roamio, Cable Modem, Router and Moca Adapter all in the main media cabinet. In the media cabinet the cable is split one side into Moca adapter and out of Moca adapter into Modem. Other side split again to tuning adapter and Roamio. Ethernet from Roamio and Moca Adaptor to Router. Then the minis use Moca and connect to the coax coming out of the walls in the bedrooms.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

Okiesnipe said:


> I'm with Cox in Tulsa. I tried to activate my new Bolt with a TA and could not get the Bolt to recognize the TA, even with the help from TIVO and Cox Support. Cox finally sent a contract tech from Stillwater where the local cable co. uses Bolts as their tuners. He eliminated the TA, said it is not needed and left. In Tulsa, without the TA the only one of my channels I can not get in HD is CW. Which Cox server will you be on ?
> I tried your MoCA network with one Mini and could not get it to work.


Not sure what server I will be on. I'm out in the DC area. All the posts I've seen had situations like yours..only missing one channel that they really didn't care about. I can live without the CW...


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Do you actually have 2 separate coaxes from Cox or is there a 2 way splitter back upstream which feeds both the modem and TV legs?
> What is the make and model of your cable modem?
> Are you thinking of enabling MoCA on the Bolt or just connect via Ethernet? A more common coax connection would be to place the MoCA filter on the input of the TA itself.
> ...


Okay, I think I figured out what you meant (I misunderstood some of the vernacular the first time through). I've updated the diagram (I hope) to activate the Tivo MoCA so I could use installed coax to connect the minis without having to convert them from Ethernet. Please let me know if I got that right.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

So not going OTA, then?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

costgeek said:


> I would appreciate any feedback you all have on my plan to switch over to a Tivo DVR. ... After reading several related posts on the Forum, I feel pretty comfortable about the attached setup.
> 
> View attachment 31712


This diagram from the OP would work, if unconventional -- though you don't need the MoCA filters since the MoCA signals, as diagrammed, are already entirely isolated from the cable provider.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> This diagram from the OP would work, if unconventional -- though you don't need the MoCA filters since the MoCA signals, as diagrammed, are already entirely isolated from the cable provider.


Here's that OP diagram with the off-screen splitter pulled-in:







​If you have more rooms where you may want MoCA available then this may not be ideal, but the above configuration is technically correct.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> So not going OTA, then?


Yeah...I did my best to try and make it work. Even got up on the roof and swapped out an old DTV dish for Clearstream antenna and the network channels looked fantastic.

There's only about 25 channels my family cares about getting but all those channels (half of which need to be live) on 3 TVs required multiple subscriptions (doubling up in some cases), paying for a lot of stuff we don't need (including the networks) and add-ons. The costs added up pretty quick and Cox was competitive (not to mention less of a hassle).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... Re: your later 2 drawings:

View attachment 31713

View attachment 31724​
You appear, in these diagrams, to be trying to leverage the TiVo Bolt, rather than the standalone MoCA adapter, to create a MoCA network for the Minis, but in doing so you've disconnected the BOLT from the incoming cable provider signal. (You'd have a MoCA network for the Minis but no TV signal source for the BOLT to tune.)

We'd need to know more about your coax cabling and how it routes between rooms and (perhaps) some central location to be able to suggest a more conventional configuration, similar to the following:









NOTE: This diagram is NOT necessarily usable by you; it is merely intended to illustrate a more conventional, hierarchical setup, with the BOLT, in this case, establishing the MoCA network (and an optional "protective" MoCA filter on the modem and tuning adapter inputs, as discussed above).​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

The following diagram illustrates a tweak to your original _unconventional _approach, but using the BOLT as the MoCA bridge rather than the standalone MoCA adapter. The main concern would be whether the cable TV signal is affected by the additional split(s) prior to the BOLT.






​
Note that a MoCA filter is used to isolate the MoCA network to just the coax segment downstream of the splitter feeding the BOLT, obviating any need for MoCA filters on the tuning adapter or modem.

The previous "conventional" approach is preferred, but there are many ways to skin a cat...


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> FYI... Re: your later 2 drawings:
> 
> View attachment 31713
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying. But since the mini legs break off before the MoCA network, will the minis be able to access all the functionality of the DVR with this configuration...or just rerceive the cable signal?

Question: Do the minis need to be connected to coax and Ethernet to have full functionality with the DVR? If so I think I know what to do...but my wife won't let me draw it right now.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

costgeek said:


> Question: Do the minis need to be connected to coax and Ethernet to have full functionality with the DVR?


The Mini's content is entirely streamed over a network connection, either from the host DVR for tuned content or directly from a given Internet streaming service, so the Minis just need a wired network connection, either Ethernet *or* MoCA, assuming a MoCA network is available if connected via coax. And a TiVo whole home setup can be a mix of both types of connections, using whatever works best for each device location.



costgeek said:


> But since the mini legs break off before the MoCA network, will the minis be able to access all the functionality of the DVR with this configuration...or just rerceive the cable signal?


The MoCA signals are bidirectional and will flow up and down the coax hierarchy. That's also why you need a "PoE" MoCA filter, to limit the scope of the MoCA network and more effectively reflect the MoCA signals back onto the coax plant.

The cable signals will be present on the coax line connecting to the Minis in all of my submitted diagrams except the original slight tweak to the OP diagram, in which the Mini coax lines are entirely isolated from the cable coax, but the raw cable signals are of no interest to the Mini and are ignored.

edit: p.s. But, again, your original diagram in the OP would work fine, as-is. What you choose depends on the available coax runs for your home, your budget (i.e. the additional MoCA adapter expense for the unconventional setup), and whether you'd look to expand the MoCA network down the road to additional rooms, perhaps for non-TiVo purposes.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> View attachment 31726
> 
> 
> NOTE: This diagram is NOT necessarily usable by you; it is merely intended to illustrate a more conventional, hierarchical setup, with the BOLT, in this case, establishing the MoCA network (and an optional "protective" MoCA filter on the modem and tuning adapter inputs, as discussed above).​


Yeah I think this will work fine. I like that it doesn't require the purchase of a MoCA adapter! I didn't realize the MoCA signals would travel up and down the hierarchy...


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> FYI... Re: your later 2 drawings:
> 
> View attachment 31713
> 
> ...


Hello again KR!

Hope I could get one last review. I'm hoping to leverage the existing 4-way splitter to get this done this week (see attached). What do you think?

McD


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Looks fine to me, though the MoCA filter on the modem's input may not be necessary (depending on the modem's stability with MoCA signals live on the coax), and the photo of the existing 4-way splitter currently doesn't indicate a "PoE" MoCA filter installed on its input. The Verizon MoCA 2.0 4-way is definitely a preferred model for MoCA.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

Okay good. Yeah...I did purchase two filters. Not being sure if the modem filter was necessary I figured it "wouldn't hurt none".

Not really sure if Cox is going to hook the whole thing up for me or just get the hub up and running given I'm not renting any equipment from them. Fortunately all the splitters will be in one place (outside the house) so it should be a pretty easy DIY job if they won't do it for me.

Thanks again


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

One last question as I don't really know much about splitters...

Will this work as the 2nd splitter in my latest drawing? Is there a better one for what I'm doing?

oops...this one isn't in stock. Does it need to be a MoCA splitter?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

costgeek said:


> One last question as I don't really know much about splitters...
> 
> Will this work as the 2nd splitter in my latest drawing? Is there a better one for what I'm doing?


Ditto what I said in this post the other day... Moca Setup - New


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

Sounds good. I had to buy a 3 way Verizon splitter in order to have it for the installation...but I assume that doesn't matter...


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

costgeek said:


> Okay good. Yeah...I did purchase two filters. Not being sure if the modem filter was necessary I figured it "wouldn't hurt none".
> 
> Not really sure if Cox is going to hook the whole thing up for me or just get the hub up and running given I'm not renting any equipment from them. Fortunately all the splitters will be in one place (outside the house) so it should be a pretty easy DIY job if they won't do it for me.
> 
> Thanks again


cox will not hook up tivo all they will do is install the cable lnes unless you get a pro install maybe


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

ajwees41 said:


> cox will not hook up tivo all they will do is install the cable lnes unless you get a pro install maybe


Yeah I kinda figured. All the coax for all three rooms originates in one spot at the side of the house, so with KR's drawing I feel confident I can integrate the Tivo and Minis. If I have any issues...I'll be right back here


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

I do have one more question. Our rec room (after XMAS) will have two TVs...one for TV and one for gaming. Since the mini is connected via coax, will I be able to use the Ethernet port to connect our PS4 to the network?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

costgeek said:


> I do have one more question. Our rec room (after XMAS) will have two TVs...one for TV and one for gaming. Since the mini is connected via coax, will I be able to use the Ethernet port to connect our PS4 to the network?


Sorry, no, minis do not have that ability.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

I guess I can just connect the PS4 through wifi...no biggie.

Happy Holidays everyone!


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

So this is going to sound like a stupid question, but is my Cox Cable receiver a tuning adapter that can be used in my MoCA network?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

No. And tuning adapters have absolutely nothing to do with Moca. All a tuning adapter does is tell the cable company to put the channel you just tuned into the stream.

But who knows what the thing you are calling a "receiver" actually is. Can you post any pictures or at least a make/model?


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

What I have is just the Set Top Box... not the tuning adapter. I finally got ahold of someone at Cox who knew what they were talking about. It is really blowing me away how many representatives they have their who have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

Long story short, they botched the order and the installation as a result. I just need to head over to the Cox store tomorrow to get a tuning adapter, and hope that they have one in stock.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Sounds like you're back on track. Par for the course for cable card installs at every cable company.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

costgeek said:


> I do have one more question. Our rec room (after XMAS) will have two TVs...one for TV and one for gaming. Since the mini is connected via coax, will I be able to use the Ethernet port to connect our PS4 to the network?


If you added a Tivo bridge or some other Moca adapter on that end, you could certainly connect several ethernet devices. I personally use a Channel Master adapter with a 4 port switch built in, but I'm not sure if you can still find those. If you used a second Tivo bridge you may want to add a switch if you ever want to plug in more than just the PS4.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

mdavej said:


> If you added a Tivo bridge or some other Moca adapter on that end, you could certainly connect several ethernet devices. I personally use a Channel Master adapter with a 4 port switch built in, but I'm not sure if you can still find those. If you used a second Tivo bridge you may want to add a switch if you ever want to plug in more than just the PS4.


Good idea!


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Ditto what I said in this post the other day... Moca Setup - New


Sorry for beating this to death but every time I think I've got everything all figured out...I don't 

If you don't mind taking another quick look (one last time...no really).

1) I updated the drawing to include the phone modem and (what I understand to be) an optional tuner adapter that when installed "after-the-fact" will replace any SDV channels I lose with the Tivo install. See any issues?

2) KR- With COX installed I now have a choice between 3-way splitters (see pic). Based on your other posts the Verizon 2.0 MoCA is the better choice right? I just want to make sure there isn't anything specific about COX Cable that makes their splitter more appropriate.

I think that's it...(queue ominous music).


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Looks good to me. I would stick with the Verizon splitter and connect the lowest loss port (3.5) to the Tivo.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

costgeek said:


> 2) ... I now have a choice between 3-way splitters (see pic). Based on your other posts the Verizon 2.0 MoCA is the better choice right?


The two pictured splitters are different in at least a couple ways, and though a given difference may make a splitter "better" in one regard, the difference may not warrant choosing one over the other. (Though that's usually an argument reserved for when deciding between what you have on-hand and ordering a replacement.)

*Balanced vs Unbalanced Splitter :: *One of your 3-ways is a balanced splitter, with each output having equal loss, while the other is unbalanced, effectively 2 2-way splitters cascaded. If one of the devices hanging off the 3-way is borderline on signal strength, then using the unbalanced splitter and connecting that device to the low-loss output might help signal strength. Though you may want to review the overall coax tree if concerned about, or having issues with, cable signal strength.

*Splitters Designed for MoCA vs Not :: *Designed for MoCA splitters have lower port isolation at MoCA frequencies, so can improve MoCA connectivity, but MoCA was originally designed to work with standard 1GHz cable splitters and so are usually sufficient. Note that splitters specifically designed for satellite setups have higher port isolation at MoCA frequencies (which lie within the satellite range) and so would be less than ideal in a MoCA setup and should be replaced.

Designed for MoCA matters more when using MoCA 2.0, bonded 2.0 even more, and will matter most if/when we ever see MoCA 2.5, where much more than just the bottom 50 MHz of the MoCA frequency range, closest to the CATV range, would be needed. The complexity of the setup and total node-to-node losses would also be a factor.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

costgeek said:


> 1) I updated the drawing to include the phone modem and (what I understand to be) an optional tuner adapter that when installed "after-the-fact" will replace any SDV channels I lose with the Tivo install. See any issues?





krkaufman said:


> *Balanced vs Unbalanced Splitter :: *One of your 3-ways is a balanced splitter, with each output having equal loss, while the other is unbalanced, effectively 2 2-way splitters cascaded. If one of the devices hanging off the 3-way is borderline on signal strength, then using the unbalanced splitter and connecting that device to the low-loss output might help signal strength. Though you may want to review the overall coax tree if concerned about, or having issues with, cable signal strength.


See attached for an alternative coax layout that may provide a more balanced cable signal to your key devices, and minimizes the number of MoCA filters required.






​


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Kaufman knows I don't like passing through the TA, but I like the other changes. You can experiment and see what works best. You'll know you got it wrong if your TV picture breaks up on the Bolt.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> Kaufman knows I don't like passing through the TA, but...


Nothing is "passing through" the TA in my last diagram.

(double-check the cable color legend, as I stuck with the OP's color choices rather than the typical)


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

Update- I scored a TA and set up the network per my last diagram, stopping short of connecting the minis. It took some tech support calls but I got TV and Internet up and running at the hub.

Running into some problems at the first mini (and Tivo tech support is closed for the night). Attached is the error I'm getting and below is a summary of what I did:

Tried to connect to the network via MoCA
Automatically obtain IP address from DHCP
Do you need to need to use DHCP Client ID on your network: NO
I did nothing to change the network settings (attached)...do I need to enter a MoCA encryption key?

Note that during the dozen failed attempts to connect to the network with this mini, TV and Internet at the hub were working fine.

Any thoughts?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

That your screenshots have yellow highlighting indicates an older OS. Can you temporarily move the Mini to a location where it can be connected via Ethernet, in order to get it through the initial connection and software upgrades?

p.s. Alternatively, at the cost of the TV signal at the BOLT, you can direct connect the Mini via a single coax cable to the BOLT's coax port and configure the Mini as a MoCA client. With the rest of the coax plant removed from the equation, this is a simple test to verify the MoCA functionality of the BOLT and the connected Mini.


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## costgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Can you temporarily move the Mini to a location where it can be connected via Ethernet, in order to get it through the initial connection and software upgrades?


So I brought the mini to the router and ran the setup with Ethernet and HDMI 3 input (i.e. I didn't disconnect anything at the hub). Two questions:

1) During the update I flipped over to HDMI 1 to watch TV since it said it could take an hour. 5 mins later I checked on it and it was done. Switching the TV between HDMI inputs wouldn't have interrupted the upgrade...would it? I did reboot the mini and it did not attempt to update again.

2) After the upgrade I tried to finish the setup (still connected to the router). The mini successfully ran through the setup info checklist, but could not find the DVR. Is this expected? I thought I read in one of your other posts that you can connect to a MoCA network with both. I realize this may not affect me when I go back to connecting with MoCA...I just like to understand how things work.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

costgeek said:


> The mini successfully ran through the setup info checklist, but could not find the DVR.


Have you registered and activated the Mini, and made the DVR aware of the new device on your TiVo account?

See this post for more info: Expediting Mini Activation

p.s. Re:


costgeek said:


> I thought I read in one of your other posts that you can connect to a MoCA network with both.


Correct. A TiVo whole home setup can be a mix of Ethernet- and MoCA-connected devices.


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