# Phillips DTR 2520 & UK TiVo



## Chumpers (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi

My old Thompson DTI2300 Freeview set top box expired last week. This unit was connected via SCART and external IR sender to my Thompson TiVo which worked well. After the Thompson DTI2300 unit failed I bought a Phillips DTR 2520 set top box. I have connected the 2520 to the same SCART and IR sender unit as the DTI2300. The 2520 responds ok to its own remote. On scanning the Phillips and Freeview codes TiVo code 20053 works with the unit. I can change channels 20+ times ok, with and without a prefix for channels of less than 10, during set top box control setup. However the TiVo, when changing channels to record, fails 90% of the time. I have sat and watched the TiVo change channels and sometimes the 2520 briefly displays the correct channel number but does not change but most of the time the 2520 will change to channel 5 instead of the what the TiVo requests which is 15, for example. I have tried all the speed settings for code 20053 but they all behave the same. I have also tried all the Freeview and Phillips codes on the TiVo and only 20053 works.

I called TiVo and they say the 2520 is supported but they don't know by what code number. TiVoPortal does not list the Phillips unit.

I also control the TiVo and Phillips set top box via a RedRat PC control IR sender. The RedRat reports that the remote control for the Phillips unit sends a different code every time I use the same button. The RedRat works ok with the 2520 and so I mention this in case it helps.

Does anyone in the group use a Philips 2520 with a TiVo and if so how did you get yours to work? Am I doing something daft?


Thanks


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## Nebulous (Nov 28, 2005)

I don't know how to solve your problem, but I do know about Philips RC5 IR codes. every time you re-press a key is toggles one of the bits in the code. The receiver then knows you have pressed the key again rather than holding down the key which repeatedly send the same code. 

I suspect that what is happening in your case is that the tivo is not reproducing the toggle and therefore the receiver is interpreting the code as a repeat and ignoring it. 

I have come across this problem before when programming my pronto remote. 

The solution in my case was to find a code that the receiver will ignore and send that in between the codes you are trying to send. This tricks the receiver into accepting all your valid codes.

Perhaps one of the Tivo gurus will be along shortly to elaborate


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## Chumpers (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Nebulous

Thanks for the reply.

That does make sense from what the TiVo is doing. During set top box control setup the Phillips unit responds as expected and changes channel at every TiVo request. However when the TiVo changes channels automatically the 2520 then starts missing most of the requests.

I found a page on TiVo Portal that allows you to create your own TiVo codes from a Pronto. I don't have a pronto but I do have the codes from my RedRat. I'm trying to find a way to convert the RedRat codes to Pronto format. I then *might* be able to create a script from the excellent TiVoPortal site that will have the pronto code for, e.g., "1", followed by an ambiguous code to fool the Phillips unit as you describe. How did you find a code that your Phillips unit ignored? Presumably the Phillips command must be a valid RC5 code, but the Phillips unit takes no action on it.


Thanks


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## Nebulous (Nov 28, 2005)

Chumpers said:


> How did you find a code that your Phillips unit ignored?


The pronto software allows you to type in whatever RC5 system/code values you like, rather than having to capture them, so I just tried a few 'til I found one that worked (or rather didn't  )


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## Chumpers (Jan 1, 2006)

Nice one, thanks


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## Tivo_noob (Jan 28, 2006)

Sorry to drag this old thread up but i was wondering if the Philips DTR 2520 channel changes with Tivo ok as i am thinking of getting one to use with Tivo?


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## Chumpers (Jan 1, 2006)

Tivo_noob said:


> Sorry to drag this old thread up but i was wondering if the Philips DTR 2520 channel changes with Tivo ok as i am thinking of getting one to use with Tivo?


I gave up in the end as I obtained another unit from Strong. The Phillips unit did work most of the time with the TiVO but not always.


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## Tivo_noob (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, i guess the search goes on for a STB with card slot.................


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tivo_noob said:


> Thanks for the reply, i guess the search goes on for a STB with card slot.................


The Netgem IPlayer + and BT Interactive Digital Adapter/IPlayer + both have a card slot that decrypts TopUpTv broadcasts. The older Netgem IPlayer does not.

However I can't recommend one of these now for this application as you need to have a very specific version of the software to support the card slot and Netgem have withdrawn software update support, even though the software was updated online via the box's own modem connection and/or an add on broadband connection via its USB port.

I still think you are a better off with a Sky Pay Once Watch Forever deal that will also give you access to a load of other channels you can't get with a Freeview box at all.


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## Tivo_noob (Jan 28, 2006)

Hmmm i was dreading that being the best option, in all honesty i don't want to give one penny to Sky but it is looking like the _only_ option


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tivo_noob said:


> Hmmm i was dreading that being the best option, in all honesty i don't want to give one penny to Sky but it is looking like the _only_ option


I feel exactly like you about the eternally devious Sky Digital and their owners Newscorp but I think with Sky Pay One Watch Forever one's conscience is clear as they cannot possibly make any money and almost certainly make a loss when an engineer spends getting on for 2 hours of his time to drive to you and install a satellite box and dish for £75.

They only make any money if you susbcribe to Sky channels but as you plan to only subscribe to their rivals Setanta this is surely the perfect way to give Sky a bloody nose?


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## Tivo_noob (Jan 28, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> I feel exactly like you about the eternally devious Sky Digital and their owners Newscorp but I think with Sky Pay One Watch Forever one's conscience is clear as they cannot possibly make any money and almost certainly make a loss when an engineer spends getting on for 2 hours of his time to drive to you and install a satellite box and dish for £75.
> 
> They only make any money if you susbcribe to Sky channels but as you plan to only subscribe to their rivals Setanta this is surely the perfect way to give Sky a bloody nose?


Ha, great minds think alike!!!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tivo_noob said:


> Ha, great minds think alike!!!


It seems surprising Sky will even let you receive Setanta using the decryption system and viewing card on one of their boxes without also being a Sky subscriber.

Was this something Ofcom forced on Sky for fear of more severe measures being taken against them on matters not like providing a CAM for their service if they did not comply?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

A further thought regarding Setanta is that no manufacturer of a Freeview box now does more than about one update of the software on the box before declaring it obsolete in favour of a newer model. This could then leave you in the lurch if the actual encryption methodology for TUTV is updated, although I suppose TopUpTv have an incentive to sort this out for any of their models with the yellow TUTV logo on it. There again they might just turn round and say you really needed to get one of their shiny new Thomson PVRs that they would offer you at a discounted price. Certainly the Netgem box is no longer supported by TUTV for decryption of their broadcasts whereas at one time it was.

So coming back to the evil Sky empire I would say the big advantage is that their standard Sky boxes are specified to a higher component level than the average crap bottom end 20 quid Freeview box with faster processors and that Sky's obsessive control of the spec of their boxes and their wish to keep even old working ones in service for many years means they will continue to upgrade the firmware, including especially the card descryption aspect of the unit so critical to protection of Sky's own revenue stream

So all things considered if you actually want to be able to get Setanta broadcasts and record them on Tivo and not have them stop decrypting half way through (a common problem with the TUTV system) then a Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box is surely the better bet.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I would say the big advantage is that their standard Sky boxes are specified to a higher component level than the average crap bottom end 20 quid Freeview box


Any actual evidence for that or just your opinion as an amateur electical engineer?? 
If Sky will fit a dish, cable and stb for £75 then the actual hardware cost can't be much higher - even if you take into account they probably lose money on the install I can't imagine they would lose any more than they had to.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> Any actual evidence for that or just your opinion as an amateur electical engineer??
> If Sky will fit a dish, cable and stb for £75 then the actual hardware cost can't be much higher - even if you take into account they probably lose money on the install I can't imagine they would lose any more than they had to.


A Sky installer probably earns circa £30,000 per annum. With PAYE and training costs plus the van cost this probably comes out at £23 per hour or so. An average install including travelling probably takes 105 minutes. So say £40. This leaves £35 for the box, dish and cable. But Sky buy in vast bulk at cost.

My reason for thinking a Sky box might be somewhat better made is they still put it in a larger container which suggests more complex circuit boards and components. Plastic and wasted freight space costs money so why do that unless the larger box is holding something. Also decryption technology is a little more complex than non decrypting boxes.

For Sky any paying customer (most of them) generates a vast amount of income over the years so a fiver extra to ensure the box lasts properly and they remain satisfied with the company is surely worth it. Whereas if a cheap Freeview box fails the customer has to buy another one and by then Tescos has changed from selling them as Astratec or whatever to some other unhead of brand by that stage so the customer doesn't realise he is buying another box from the same crappo Chinese factory. Also as it only costs £20 and there is no sub he doesn't really mind.

As to the £75 install the minimum revenue stream from a customer who subscribes is now £192 per annum. So it only takes 1 in 4 Sky Pay Once Watch Forever customers to subscribe to make it economic for the real cost of this product to install to be £100 per customer. Sky Pay Once Watch Forever also receives no marketing but sells itself through word of mouth so the acquisition cost per customer who does convert is much lower than a normal paying Sky sub.

Even the customers who go Freesat are not a loss to Sky because when they cannot acquire new customers via any other method but need to keep sales going up in a slow quarter they can offer those box owners an irresistible deal like all Sky Mixes and a Movies channel for 6 months at £5 per month to get a load more subscribers temporarily onboard. Whereas if someone goes Freeview they are lost to Sky forever...............


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