# American Idol "Season 8 Results Finale" 5/20/09 *spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Time to see who won.

Almost 100 million votes came in last night, Season's vote total around 625 million.

Checking in with the hometown crowds.

Top 13 singing "So what"... Mmmmm Alexis she left us way too soon. Holy voice crack!

David Cook with his song "Permanent". David's brother lost his battle with cancer a couple weeks ago and Idol is going to donate proceeds from Itunes downloads of this song to ASquared a cancer research charity. 

Golden Idol awards...

Outstanding Male goes to Nick Mitchell/Normund Gentle... I now remember that I haven't missed this...

"Cue the rain" with Lil Rounds and Queen Latifah.

Jason Mraz singing with some of the top 10.

The journey of Kris Allen.

"Kiss a girl" with Keith Urban and Kris.

"Glamorous" with the top girls... Along with Fergie. Nice legs Megan Joy but those tats.. Now here comes the Black Eyed Peas. Either a long audio drop out or Fox editing something.

More Golden Idols.

Best Attitude award goes too.... Bikini Girl.. in Bikini.... OH MY!! She has been enhanced.... but not her singing but who cares!  HAHA Kara just stowed her up. HOLY SMOKES Kara in a bikini... What a smokin' hot bod! I think I'm in love! 

"Time after time" with Allison and Cindi Lauper.

Seacrest talking to Kris and Adam's families.

Danny singing "Hello" and out comes Lionel Ritchie.

Adam's journey on Idol.

Adam reminds me of Edward Scissorhands in that outfit for some reason. Down from the ceiling comes KISS.

Carlos Santana performing with Matt and the rest of the top 13.

Ford music video. Kris and Adam get Ford Fusions.

Michael and Megan Joy with Steve Martin on banjo.

Top guys singing.

Rod Stewart performing.

Outstanding female Golden Idol....oh boy I know who wins.... Tatianna.... HAHA yeah faking that security was trying to keep her off stage.

Adam and Kris singing "We are the champions" with Queen.

Finally time to announce the winner, I think....

Simon thought they were both brilliant and incredibly nice..

The winner of American Idol 2K9 is... Kris Allen! (He got the Gokey push I think).

Poor Kris has to sing the song he doesn't have the range for again.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I will start watching around 8:30 - want to give the Tivo enough pad time so that I can FF through the commercials which I expect will be plentiful....


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

I will start watching at 10. 

I'll keep checking in here for what might be worthwhile to actually watch.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Definately Bikini Girl...holy shiznit


----------



## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

What the heck happened during the Black Eyed Peas song?


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I saw that too, I was wondering if they thought Fergie was going to cuss and hit the 7 second delay.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Wow this Cyndi Lauper duo is HORRIBLE....

Why do people dig on the Black eyed Peas?? They were horrible as well.

Fergie and bikini girl made for fun eye candy though.


----------



## chronatog7 (Aug 26, 2004)

I had a friend called regarding a girl flashing. Could it be that?


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I want Fergie's shoes!


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

chronatog7 said:


> I had a friend called regarding a girl flashing. Could it be that?


No..that worthless other lady judge flashed her bikini...was lame.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Alfer said:


> No..that worthless other lady judge flashed her bikini...was lame.


Huh? Was Kara wearing a bikini and how would you know? Did it not get censored in some areas?


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

DavidTigerFan said:


> Huh? Was Kara wearing a bikini and how would you know? Did it not get censored in some areas?


Saw what looked like a black bikini to me.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

What the hell kind of outfit is the trouser pilot wearin??


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I love Danny. He shoulda been in the finals...


----------



## pantherman007 (Jan 4, 2003)

Alfer said:


> What the hell kind of outfit is the trouser pilot wearin??


"Trouser pilot"? Nice. And classy. :down:


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Alfer said:


> What the hell kind of outfit is the trouser pilot wearin??


LMFAO...


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Adam and Kiss.

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Kara redeemed herself tonight for putting "bikini girl" in her place. Can't stand chicks like her.


----------



## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

Sweet, I have some of those glittery eyelashes.
Adam is so "current" he's singing with KISS. Where Kris sang with a guy that still puts out records and does tours that aren't for the retro crowd.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I missed it, who did Kris sing with?


----------



## DeeDee (Jun 19, 2005)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I missed it, who did Kris sing with?


Keith Urban


----------



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

gossamer88 said:


> Kara redeemed herself tonight for putting "bikini girl" in her place. Can't stand chicks like her.


Plus Kara has an incredible body!


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

How the heck did Megan ever make top 13? She sounds awful.

I can't decide if Fergie is old or just heavily used.


----------



## Derbyman (Jan 7, 2009)

They gotta regret letting that blonde girl get in the top 10, she can't sing a single note. She might be the worst top 10 ever. Yea I seen her name Megan yuk

Voted for Adam last night and I hope he wins but I am ok with Kris he came from nowhere to get into it. It may be a blessing to lose so you don't have to release that song Kara wrote.


----------



## wooh (Feb 20, 2006)

When Rod Stewart sings "If You Want My Body", it's got a cheesy factor that carries it off. It does NOT work as a group number for 20s year old men.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Wow - Rod's voice is shot.

So sad.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm on delay:

Santana ROCKED!!!


----------



## sptnut (Sep 1, 2003)

Was the Titiana show (sp?), real or fake. Wasn't sure.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> I'm on delay:
> 
> Santana ROCKED!!!


Totally! :up:


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

sptnut said:


> Was the Titiana show (sp?), real or fake. Wasn't sure.


I think big-time fake.


----------



## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

Nice to see Normund Gentle again.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Adam and Queen - PERFECT!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

nyny523 said:


> Wow - Rod's voice is shot.
> 
> So sad.


Holy mackeral...he shoulda stayed home!


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

No.

Not that song again.

Please.

Oy.


----------



## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

Wow. Didn't expect that!

I'm happy with the outcome. Adam Lambert's talented but a little too "out there" for my taste.

LH


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Yeah, I think Kara needs to go back and re-work that song a bit for Kris before it goes out to radio. Yikes.


----------



## Lopey (Feb 12, 2004)

WOW.... I can't believe that!! I'm glad that Kris won...


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

No one is more shocked than Kris.


----------



## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

Did they announce the margin of victory? If they didn't, it probably wasn't close.


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

This was the 2nd episode of AI I've seen this season. I wonder when FOX will start airing this live in all timezones like the Oscars?

So what?? 3 weeks till they start airing the audition rounds? haha


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

nyny523 said:


> Adam and Kiss.
> 
> I LOVE IT!!!!!!!





nyny523 said:


> Adam and Queen - PERFECT!


Adam could be the lead singer for either of those groups.

Tonight's celebrity duos/performances proved one judges point.....it's all about song choice. Kris with Keith, Adam with Kiss, Allison with Cyndi, all perfect songs for their voices. Why couldn't they have chosen songs like that during the show.

?.....Is Ace back with Kiss? And was that Peter Criss too?


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Sucks that Kris has to release that terrible song as his first single.


----------



## Billyh1026 (May 21, 2006)

Well, Dial Idol predicted it right. For sheer star names this was the best finals ever. Santana, Kiss, Urban, Queen, Lionel, Rod, etc. I don't think this was ever even close after Gokey was gone. His fans piled on Chris' side just to pummel Adam...thankfully. I don't know why they keep saying things like "Adam when you hit those amazing high notes...". It sounds like a painful screech to me.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Lowest rated finale: http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/idol-finale.html


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

One thing that tonight made clear is that we elected the right Idol last year. 

David Cook was awesome.


----------



## Savafan1 (Mar 21, 2003)

jlb said:


> ?.....Is Ace back with Kiss? And was that Peter Criss too?


Nope. It's Tommy Thayer in Ace's makeup and Eric Singer in Peter's. Maybe that can be the career for Adam, he can put on Paul's costume.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

I can't stand David Cook's faux-rock voice and his cheesy Journey-knockoff stadium rock songs.


----------



## toddvj (Apr 22, 2004)

Savafan1 said:


> Nope. It's Tommy Thayer in Ace's makeup and Eric Singer in Peter's. Maybe that can be the career for Adam, he can put on Paul's costume.


The camera stayed well away from the drummer. They only showed a brief glimpse of "Ace" so I wasn't sure, but I knew that Peter wasn't Peter.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

The most shocking thing about the finale is how little I used the FF button. 

We really enjoyed the guests. Great choices and enjoyable performances. We enjoyed Rod, Lionel, Santana, Queen, etc. 

Perhaps we were in a cheesy, old fogie mood but that was fun.


----------



## Derbyman (Jan 7, 2009)

Congratulations to Kris and his fans. They came out in force for Kris! He will be a great American Idol.
(god,,that was hard to type)


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I loved that finale. When Adam came out in that outfit, I couldn't imagine what he was thinking. Then he started to do "Beth" and I realized he was doing a little homage to Kiss. They had the performers for all of the other songs they sang come out, and I kept wondering if they'd bring Peter Criss out. The song isn't really a Kiss song as the music is recorded and the rest of the band doesn't have a part in it, so I wasn't expecting the whole band to come out, and couldn't picture Criss coming out to perform. What a perfect act! They're totally cheesy, but damn, they're one of the best rock bands to watch.

I was rooting for Adam. He's just a natural performer and he's got chops. I think he'll still make a big name for himself.


----------



## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> The most shocking thing about the finale is how little I used the FF button.
> 
> We really enjoyed the guests. Great choices and enjoyable performances. We enjoyed Rod, Lionel, Santana, Queen, etc.
> 
> Perhaps we were in a cheesy, old fogie mood but that was fun.


Ditto. Best. American. Idol. Finale. Ever.

We really enjoyed it. Loved Norman Gentle, Bikini Girl, and even Tatiana. Loved the musical numbers for the most part. Enjoyed telling our kids who all these bands/people were. Really reliving our childhood.

And I'm thrilled Kris won - I love his crooked smile... I told my daughters they could bring home nice boys like him any day.


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Comcast viewers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania apparently missed a lot of the action because they were switched 10 times in one hour to the TV Guide Channel for an Amber Alert. I wouldn't want to be a Comcast exec around here tomorrow morning...


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Graymalkin said:


> Comcast viewers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania apparently missed a lot of the action because they were switched 10 times in one hour to the TV Guide Channel for an Amber Alert. I wouldn't want to be a Comcast exec around here tomorrow morning...


Ouch!


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Does any one know why Steve Urkel was sitting with the judges.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

dthmj said:


> Ditto. Best. American. Idol. Finale. Ever.
> 
> We really enjoyed it. Loved Norman Gentle, Bikini Girl, and even Tatiana. Loved the musical numbers for the most part. Enjoyed telling our kids who all these bands/people were. Really reliving our childhood.
> 
> And I'm thrilled Kris won - I love his crooked smile... I told my daughters they could bring home nice boys like him any day.


Great great show. I was afraid it was going to be boring like the Grammys with all the stars but this final rocked.

Carly Simonson - WTF with the hair. Is there another Flintstones movie coming out?

Nick 'Norman Gentle' - love this guy..roll on the floor funny. He should make a guest appearance on SNL.

Black Eyed Peas - thought there was a wardrobe malfunction when the logo screen came up... awesome stage performance. Head was a 'bobbin'.

Kara vs Bikini Girl - I dropped the remote when Kara flashed.  She has a better voice and a hellacious bod. Damn! you go girl!

Allison/Cyndi Lauper - wow for those who saw Cyndi Lauper in the '30 Rock' episode. She needs to put tonights makeup artist on retainer and sue the one from '30 Rock'. Lauper looked 10 years younger.

Adam/KISS - When he came out in that costume part of me groaned imagining the comments about his 'theatrical' side but then KISS came down and it was a "HELL YEAH!" . They need to adopt Adam as a honorary band member that was great!

Carlos Santana/Idol Group - I kept thinking why didn't they have Santana play with Kris alone? That would've been a awesome pairing.

Adam/Kris/Queen - Finally a Queen song, but I kept wanting to drag Kris off stage like Tatiana so only 1 thumbs up for me.

Kris wins. I don't think Adam not winning will affect his career as this Idol season is firmly stamped with his name on it. Kris would do well to do a country album he seemed quite at home with his song with Keith Urban.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

From the other thread:



scooterboy said:


> Disagree. Kris deserves it, but I believe Adam will win.
> 
> (very happy to be wrong on the second part though)


Yup. Happy to be wrong.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Glad to see Kiss still sucks.


----------



## MiakioAmy (Oct 2, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> The most shocking thing about the finale is how little I used the FF button.
> 
> We really enjoyed the guests. Great choices and enjoyable performances. We enjoyed Rod, Lionel, Santana, Queen, etc.
> 
> Perhaps we were in a cheesy, old fogie mood but that was fun.


I agree. I thought it was a great show.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Great show, I am happy Kris won!


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> Comcast viewers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania apparently missed a lot of the action because they were switched 10 times in one hour to the TV Guide Channel for an Amber Alert. I wouldn't want to be a Comcast exec around here tomorrow morning...


I watched it recorded. My recording was tainted only once by an Amber alert. At 10:02 p.m.  Apparently while the other Amber alerts were going on, my recording kept on trucking, which is nice.

We got hit with amber alerts while we were watching, but they were live, not recorded. I could tell becaues the time was on the screen. Did you know that Comcast can hijack a TiVo HD (one with a CableCARD, at least) and show a live amber alert or an EBS alert while I'm watching a recording, and that, when it does, there's nothing you can do to make it go away?

Also, did you know that when it's done, it kicks you back to live TV? And that when this happens while you're watching the 9:00 hour of the Idol finale at 10:04, and then your TiVo kicks you into live and you see who's singing, you're going to know who won? Did you know it could do that?

Yeah, me neither.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Good show though. The wrong guy won. 

What if you threw a pyrotechnic rainstorm and nobody came?

If anyone could have stood to have the Idol contestants back him up vocally, it was Rod Stewart. Sheesh.

The Tatiana thing was a bit, right? If so, they didn't end it well at all.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)




----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

aindik said:


> Did you know that Comcast can hijack a TiVo HD (one with a CableCARD, at least) and show a live amber alert or an EBS alert while I'm watching a recording, and that, when it does, there's nothing you can do to make it go away?


Nitpick: EBS has been discontinued for many, many years now. What they have now is EAS.

That said, that's the way EAS alerts work - they are required to be carried, and they are required to be broadcast in their entirety. Annoying, stupid, but that's the way it works, and it isn't just a Comcast and TiVo thing. If you have a cable company digital cable box, it will do the same thing.

(Not sure if the Comcast DTA boxes carry EAS alerts or not, since they're not technically cable boxes.)


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jesda said:


> How the heck did Megan ever make top 13? She sounds awful.





Derbyman said:


> They gotta regret letting that blonde girl get in the top 10, she can't sing a single note. She might be the worst top 10 ever. Yea I seen her name Megan yuk


Megan was HORRIBLE. The only performance I fast forwarded was when she sang the duet with Steve Martin on banjo. I felt bad for the other performers on stage at that point. But she is cute.



nyny523 said:


> I love Danny. He shoulda been in the finals...


I thought he was just as dull as before. I was thinking that this proved why he shouldn't be in the final. 



Alfer said:


> Why do people dig on the Black eyed Peas?? They were horrible as well.


Are you kidding? That performance was excellent. Fun, energetic, with the dancers in the odd outfit, and that song ROCKS, especially the second part of it with the euro-beat. Love it. I've never liked anything much they've done, but this song rocks.



Derbyman said:


> Voted for Adam last night and I hope he wins but I am ok with Kris he came from nowhere to get into it. It may be a blessing to lose so you don't have to release that song Kara wrote.


Yeah, that crap is embarrassingly bad. I think Adam might have been happy to lose for that reason alone. 


nyny523 said:


> Adam and Queen - PERFECT!


Yeah, I LOVED that. Wished they could have played one more song, would've loved to hear them take a stab at something like "Who wants to live forever", or maybe something fast and silly like "Bicycle race". 



uncdrew said:


> The most shocking thing about the finale is how little I used the FF button.
> 
> We really enjoyed the guests. Great choices and enjoyable performances. We enjoyed Rod, Lionel, Santana, Queen, etc.
> 
> Perhaps we were in a cheesy, old fogie mood but that was fun.


I agree except for Rod (bad voice) and Santana (never liked him much). Still, I didn't fast forward anything (except Megan's "singing"), which is unusual for a results show.



bobcarn said:


> I loved that finale. When Adam came out in that outfit, I couldn't imagine what he was thinking. Then he started to do "Beth" and I realized he was doing a little homage to Kiss. They had the performers for all of the other songs they sang come out, and I kept wondering if they'd bring Peter Criss out. The song isn't really a Kiss song as the music is recorded and the rest of the band doesn't have a part in it, so I wasn't expecting the whole band to come out, and couldn't picture Criss coming out to perform. What a perfect act! They're totally cheesy, but damn, they're one of the best rock bands to watch.
> 
> I was rooting for Adam. He's just a natural performer and he's got chops. I think he'll still make a big name for himself.


I agree.



Ment said:


> Black Eyed Peas - thought there was a wardrobe malfunction when the logo screen came up... awesome stage performance. Head was a 'bobbin'.


Not kidding!  That was awesome.



Ment said:


> Kara vs Bikini Girl - I dropped the remote when Kara flashed.  She has a better voice and a hellacious bod. Damn! you go girl!


The "what's new" from Ryan was funny. I noticed that too as she was getting up on stage. 
I hope this was the last we saw of Kara in American Idol. I think she's gorgeous and she obviously has talent, but she was completely superfluous and just plain annoying.



aindik said:


> The Tatiana thing was a bit, right? If so, they didn't end it well at all.


Yeah that was a bit. Poorly acted too. 

I was happy with the winner. I liked Kris' performance with Keith Urban (great song too), and I suspect he'll get a pretty good career going in the country genre, unless he chooses to go the Jason Mraz route with more laidback acoustic pop music. Either way, he's got talent as a performer. Like someone said in another thread:


wendiness1 said:


> Adam sings to sing. Kris sings to communicate.


I LOVE Adam's singing, and prefer his style of music and performance in general, but Kris is great at making me believe that he thinks what he's singing is important to him.

They both have their qualities, and I wish them both the best.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I think Kris sang Kara's song better today than he did yesterday.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

timckelley said:


> I think Kris sang Kara's song better today than he did yesterday.


Yeah I thought so too. Maybe he figured he didn't deliberately have to screw it up now.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

WOW!

I just got done watching and I had pretty much planned to watch and almost wear out my FF button. Turns out I really didn't use it much at all, except for commercials.

What a line up! That must have cost them a fortune to get all of those acts.

How old IS Rod Stewart anyway? Seems like there's always huge buzz when his tickets go on sale here, but man, I just don't understand it. He looked quite old and sounded horrible. Can't see spending money on his concerts anymore (not that I ever did anyway ).

Nice job, Idol!


Jesda mentioned earlier that this week's finale show was the lowest rated ever. How do you go from that to a record 100 million votes cast??? Very dedicated fans, I guess.

Who was the dark haired chick in the crowd with the Steven Tyler face? Someone needs to tell her not to do that!


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

JLucPicard said:


> Who was the dark haired chick in the crowd with the Steven Tyler face? Someone needs to tell her not to do that!


Amen. I grimmaced when she did that.

BTW, didn't Southpark do an episode making fun of how old Rod Stewart is?


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Alfer said:


> Wow this Cyndi Lauper duo is HORRIBLE....
> 
> Why do people dig on the Black eyed Peas?? They were horrible as well.
> 
> Fergie and bikini girl made for fun eye candy though.


 I loved the Cyndi Lauper / Allison combo singing Time after Time.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

NJChris said:


> I loved the Cyndi Lauper / Allison combo singing Time after Time.


It started out okay, but towards the end, they just started babbling instead of singing, and for awhile it sound like indian chanting... I was ready for them to get out their feather headresses and start dancing around a campfire or something.


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Adam showed again tonight why he will be filling stadiums for years to come.

Kris really grew on me. I might buy his music if he does a good Jack Johnson style CD.

Different styles, both extremely talented.

-murray


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Adam SHOULD have won. But I figured the teenybobber vote would put Kris over. Not that Kris isn't talented. I think he's very, very good and I would buy his album... but Adam is just some sort of talent that doesn't come along very often. 

It's probably better for him that he finished second. We'll be hearing from him for years to come. I said before he's the next Freddie Mercury... look how well he fit in with Kiss and Queen.

KISS was AWESOME! Made my night. When Adam started singing "Beth" all I could think of was "PLEASE let him introduce KISS!"

Santana rocked as well. I love that guy.

Totally enjoyed this finale.

Kara rocked too with the singing - I had no idea she could sing so well - and the bikini bit was awesome... she's got some body on her. :up:

And for the record... I think she was a great addition to the panel this year. I hope they keep her.

I don't know much about Black Eyed Peas, but I thought they were outstanding.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I had a bad feeling that was gonna happen... It was just "too sure of a thing" that Adam would win and sure enough Kris pulled it out. Kris sounded great tonight on the finale and it really pointed up how well he can sing. He peaked at just the right time, and I fear Adam may have used the high notes a bit too much and some of his early fans got tired of him and switched to Kris. 

The piece they did on Kris made him look like a genuinely humble and honest guy. Even after winning he still said "Adam deserved to win this". So while he wasn't my choice to win, it sure couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :up:


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

Kris is sooo.... ordinary. Absolutely nothing stands out. Weakest winner ever, he'll be lucky to go gold with his first album. But a nice "dark horse" story nonetheless.

Adam is the best 2nd place finisher since Bice. He'll knock 'em dead, and will be the biggest non-winner success since Daughtry. For his fans out there - be glad. He would have been hamstrung by conforming "don't take chances" attitudes of commercialism. He'll get the big contract/deal and will have more freedom to be original.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> . but Adam is just some sort of talent that doesn't come along very often. .


You keep saying that but never address the issues people raise. If he's so much of a talent why has he not been discovered. I've already bet you an internet bag of peanuts and I'll add in an internet coffee that he does not have a significant album selling career.

Murrays says Adam will be filling stadiums yet he can't even win American Idol ???

I actually liked him singing tonight cause he kept the screeching down, I think he could make some good records if he's well produced but unless he becomes a bit more genuine and joins an emo act he's not gonna sell records long term I tells ya.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I liked the new David Cook song, by the way. Went to buy the song on iTunes, but I can't see it there. Didn't he say it was gonna be up right away after the show? Maybe I'm not looking in the right spot, or he was wrong.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> Murrays says Adam will be filling stadiums yet he can't even win American Idol ???


Daughtry finished fourth. Taylor Hicks won. You can use any argument you want, but winning or losing American Idol is not an indication of success in the real world.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Daughtry finished fourth. Taylor Hicks won. You can use any argument you want, but winning or losing American Idol is not an indication of success in the real world.


Kind of OT, but what ever happened to Fantasia? I'd actually forgotten she was a winner until my wife mentioned her tonight. I admit I'm not up on the pop scene, but did she ever "make it big"?


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm certainly not saying that winning is a measure of future success, but so far only winners + daughtry have sold records (I'm not sure if Daughtry sells out stadiums or not) and it was only an attempt to fight back against the "special talent" argument. I don't think we'd argue that Daughtry is a special talent (unless his special talent is being a miserable bastard )


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Kind of OT, but what ever happened to Fantasia? I'd actually forgotten she was a winner until my wife mentioned her tonight. I admit I'm not up on the pop scene, but did she ever "make it big"?


Starring in Broadway's "Color Purple" as Celie. And doing great, from what I hear.

Seems like she is following J. Huds' arc.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Fantasia sold a decent number on her first album, lost out to Jennifer Hudson for Dream Girls and was dropped last year. 

She sold around 1.8 mill of her first, 500k of her second album. Has a new one coming soon and is starring in the Color Purple right now (Wikipedia is my friend).

Not exactly following Hudson's arc, she sold a lot of records, then lost out to J-Hud for Dream Girls and is now doing musicals on stage.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> You keep saying that but never address the issues people raise. If he's so much of a talent why has he not been discovered. I've already bet you an internet bag of peanuts and I'll add in an internet coffee that he does not have a significant album selling career.


YOU keep saying THAT and don't address when people point out that many superstars were not 'discovered' til later in life.

Give it up John. You don't like him. No biggie. I really don't care. 

Come back next year and let's see where he is. How bout that?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bareyb said:


> Kind of OT, but what ever happened to Fantasia? I'd actually forgotten she was a winner until my wife mentioned her tonight. I admit I'm not up on the pop scene, but did she ever "make it big"?


The first album sold well, but after that she's mostly done Broadway, with apparently good results. I remember reading an interview with her in EW a couple of years ago when her book came out (which was turned into a TV movie where she played herself), and she seemed very happy with her career.

I just checked Wikipedia and it says her first album sold 2 million copies. She's kinds of "under the radar" now, but I'd say she's done pretty well for herself.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

JLucPicard said:


> Who was the dark haired chick in the crowd with the Steven Tyler face? Someone needs to tell her not to do that!


From memory I think you're referring to the shot of Janice Dickinson ...sadly she's not been the 'next Gia' for a few decades. Heather Locklear on the other hand continues to look ageless.


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'm certainly not saying that winning is a measure of future success, but so far only winners + daughtry have sold records (I'm not sure if Daughtry sells out stadiums or not) and it was only an attempt to fight back against the "special talent" argument. I don't think we'd argue that Daughtry is a special talent (unless his special talent is being a miserable bastard )


Bo Bice, Clay Aiken, Jennifer Hudson have done quite well.

Let's not forget Pickler. Heck, even Bucky Covington has sold a few albums. And McPhee is starting to pick up steam. Archuleta still has a bright future.

Those are just a few. Sometimes NOT winning equates to more success. It might have something to do with reduced expectations and pressure.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Mickes is there another Bo Bice who has done well that I don't know about ????  You know who has done surprisingly well is Josh Gracin. McPhee really hasn't done much, but I can't argue with Clay, though his career seems to have tanked at this point. Hudson is a different case of course with her career really being made of the back of Dream Girls.

None of these are setting the world on fire though, I totally agree Adam will at least have a career as good as them but not the "superstar" career claimed here.



Philly Bill said:


> YOU keep saying THAT and don't address when people point out that many superstars were not 'discovered' til later in life.


Actually that has never been brought up here or I would have addressed it. I am sure they exist but I honestly cannot think of one right now.



Philly Bill said:


> Give it up John. You don't like him. No biggie. I really don't care.


Actually I have said a number of times that I do like him. I simply don't understand the worship he is receiving from certain people (here and in my real life). I thought he did well singing tonight, with Kiss and alone. I think he'd be great as the singer of a band, but I'm not sure anyone has ever seen the real Adam yet.



Philly Bill said:


> Come back next year and let's see where he is. How bout that?


 Next year will not prove anything. He's bound to sell well for a year or two, it's the "special talent" "sell more than anyone" etc comments I'm arguing with.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

dandrewk said:


> Starring in Broadway's "Color Purple" as Celie. And doing great, from what I hear.
> 
> Seems like she is following J. Huds' arc.





JohnB1000 said:


> Fantasia sold a decent number on her first album, lost out to Jennifer Hudson for Dream Girls and was dropped last year.
> 
> She sold around 1.8 mill of her first, 500k of her second album. Has a new one coming soon and is starring in the Color Purple right now (Wikipedia is my friend).
> 
> Not exactly following Hudson's arc, she sold a lot of records, then lost out to J-Hud for Dream Girls and is now doing musicals on stage.





MickeS said:


> The first album sold well, but after that she's mostly done Broadway, with apparently good results. I remember reading an interview with her in EW a couple of years ago when her book came out (which was turned into a TV movie where she played herself), and she seemed very happy with her career.
> 
> I just checked Wikipedia and it says her first album sold 2 million copies. She's kinds of "under the radar" now, but I'd say she's done pretty well for herself.


Wow! Well right-on for her. The radio stations in my area rarely play any of the really good "new" stuff. I think I remember hearing something about her being in The Color Purple now that you mentioned it. Good for her. She was the one Idol I'd lost track of. :up:


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

dandrewk said:


> Bo Bice, Clay Aiken, Jennifer Hudson have done quite well.
> 
> Let's not forget Pickler. Heck, even Bucky Covington has sold a few albums. And McPhee is starting to pick up steam. Archuleta still has a bright future.
> 
> Those are just a few. Sometimes NOT winning equates to more success. It might have something to do with reduced expectations and pressure.


Constantine just got nominated for a Tony.

I'm just saying.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Who was the dark haired chick in the crowd with the Steven Tyler face? Someone needs to tell her not to do that!


I think that was ex-supermodel Janice Dickinson. All I know about her is what they show of her on "The Soup" when they pick on her reality show stunts. She's comes across as a weird and not nice person.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> Murrays says Adam will be filling stadiums yet he can't even win American Idol ???


You only need 35,000 to fill a stadium. I guarantee that he got 40+ Million votes... Pretty sure that he could fill a stadium.

I hate concerts. Hate them. There are only three or four acts on this planet that I would buy a ticket to see live. That number increased by one this season.

It remains to be seen what sort of artist he will be. Can he write songs? Don't know. Does he want to act? Don't know. Does he want to sing rock or pop? Don't know.

But whatever he does will be fascinating, and whatever he does, I will be there.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Philly Bill said:


> YOU keep saying THAT and don't address when people point out that many superstars were not 'discovered' til later in life.





JohnB1000 said:


> Actually that has never been brought up here or I would have addressed it. I am sure they exist but I honestly cannot think of one right now.


Freddie Mercury was 28 when Queen released Queen II. The band had been tooling around with marginal success for 4 years, but that is widely considered to be their breakthrough.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> The most shocking thing about the finale is how little I used the FF button.
> 
> We really enjoyed the guests. Great choices and enjoyable performances. We enjoyed Rod, Lionel, Santana, Queen, etc.
> 
> Perhaps we were in a cheesy, old fogie mood but that was fun.


In the sing off thread I predicted my FF button would get a workout. In reality, we only skipped the commercials. The Tatiana bit was lame, and Norman Gentle's sell-by date was months ago, but otherwise it was an very good show. It was nice to see what good friends Kris and Adam seem to have become. (And to see that adorable pixie Alexis again.)


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

bareyb said:


> I had a bad feeling that was gonna happen... It was just "too sure of a thing" that Adam would win and sure enough Kris pulled it out. Kris sounded great tonight on the finale and it really pointed up how well he can sing. He peaked at just the right time, and I fear Adam may have used the high notes a bit too much and some of his early fans got tired of him and switched to Kris.
> 
> The piece they did on Kris made him look like a genuinely humble and honest guy. Even after winning he still said "Adam deserved to win this". So while he wasn't my choice to win, it sure couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :up:


This and MickeS's long post cover my thoughts pretty well. This was my favorite season so far. Only exception - Kara. Hot bod, nice voice, crappy judge.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Wow there's so much bickering that I almost couldn't get through this thread. Just wanted to add my $.02 in on last night. 

So glad Kris won and not Adam. And I don't say this because I'm not an Adam fan... (funny that the only video I have saved on my computer from this season is RoF)... I say this because 1. imagine that song being sung by him on the radio right now. Talk about losing credibility. It was uncomfortable for me to watch him sing it last night. It's simply not him and watching him sing with KISS confirmed it for me. He'll have no problems getting something that's all him out there now and 2. Kris needed the win and I believe with the right tweaking can actually sell the hell out of that song. I look forward to hearing the final version when it does hit the airwaves. 

Okay that being said, I did FF through a lot of last night just because it wasn't appealing to me and I had a late start on the show and needed to get through it. I have to say that Adam singing Beth was made of all kinds of win for me. I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVED it. He should record that right now. Those talking smack about his outfit, ummmm did anyone not see KISS? He fit in well and it was a very cool performance to watch him with them. 

I also was loving the whole Normund thing as well as the Tatiana thing, which I'm not convinced was 100% sketched. I think she went a bit rogue at the end there... which is hilarious. David Cook was amazing. I never wonder how he won when he sings. I wish Kris had sung with Mraz instead of Anoop and Alexis but it was still good.

Kara totally owned Katrina, in voice and body. LOVED that!! You know Katrina thought she was getting her "Normund" moment and then Kara comes from behind her. You think they clued her in on that? I bet not because if they had she might not have wanted to do it. It made her look like a fool.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> Adam SHOULD have won. But I figured the teenybobber vote would put Kris over.


AT&T has confirmed that 38 million votes came from the state of Arkansas alone. It was treated like a professionally run political campaign, organizing parties with thousands of people, giving them free food with AT&T (an American Idol sponsor) giving away *FREE GoPhones* and teaching how to mass text vote. People were bragging they'd texted anywhere from 20,000 to 80,000 times.

_"In Conway after Tuesday's performances, fans at the Estes Stadium watch party took out wireless phones and started making calls and firing off text messages - some voting on their own devices and others on phones borrowed from AT&T, which supplied about 50 display units and representatives to teach multiple "power texting."

AT&T also made about 30 phones available in a "texting zone" at a watch party at the Peabody Little Rock hotel"_
http://www.nwarktimes.com/adg/national/260040/


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> AT&T has confirmed that 38 million votes came from the state of Arkansas alone. It was treated like a professionally run political campaign, organizing parties with thousands of people, giving them free food with AT&T (an American Idol sponsor) giving away *FREE GoPhones* and teaching how to mass text vote. People were bragging they'd texted anywhere from 20,000 to 80,000 times.
> 
> _"In Conway after Tuesday's performances, fans at the Estes Stadium watch party took out wireless phones and started making calls and firing off text messages - some voting on their own devices and others on phones borrowed from AT&T, which supplied about 50 display units and representatives to teach multiple "power texting."
> 
> ...


Huh.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I am surprised so many people watched/liked the finale. But then again, I dont have two hours to waste on that. I just wanted the winner. And even then, in a freaking two hour finale, they STILL have to run over 7 minutes? Please. 

But I'm glad Kris won.


----------



## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

Fantasia scored limited success in The Color Purple on Broadway, but her serial absences hurt her chances of getting further Broadway roles (see following link):

http://blog.themavenreport.com/?p=772

And didn't anyone else see the daily drama on the Internet and on T.V. about the foreclosure of her home in recent months?


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

> Originally Posted by Alfer
> Why do people dig on the Black eyed Peas?? They were horrible as well.





> Are you kidding? That performance was excellent. Fun, energetic, with the dancers in the odd outfit, and that song ROCKS, especially the second part of it with the euro-beat. Love it. I've never liked anything much they've done, but this song rocks.


Nope not kidding at all....that "music" far from "rocked" for me....I thought if was indeed awful...same for the Cyndi Lauper train wreck duo...ugh...but to each is own as they say.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

sushikitten said:


> I am surprised so many people watched/liked the finale. But then again, I dont have two hours to waste on that. I just wanted the winner. And even then, in a freaking two hour finale, they STILL have to run over 7 minutes? Please.
> 
> But I'm glad Kris won.


You missed a great show.

Really.

It was VERY entertaining - probably the best final they ever had.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

My daughter, age 9, upon seeing KISS for the first time:

"What?? They need haircuts, BAD! Their shoes are like Bratz-doll shoes! And they should really grow up already..."


----------



## urwathrtz (Jan 18, 2008)

I thought the finale was, meh. Entertaining but basically, meh. The wife and I stopped giving a crap who won last week when Danny was voted off. (Favorite part of last night, Danny and Lionel) 
One thing I can't figure out is, everyone we talked to that watches the show voted for Adam. Who voted for Chris?!?!? An enigma wrapped in a mystery.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

urwathrtz said:


> I thought the finale was, meh. Entertaining but basically, meh. The wife and I stopped giving a crap who won last week when Danny was voted off. (Favorite part of last night, Danny and Lionel)
> One thing I can't figure out is, everyone we talked to that watches the show voted for Adam. *Who voted for Chris*?!?!? An enigma wrapped in a mystery.


All the Danny voters went with Kris.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

danterner said:


> My daughter, age 9, upon seeing KISS for the first time:
> 
> "What?? They need haircuts, BAD! Their shoes are like Bratz-doll shoes! And they should really grow up already..."


LOL!

My 7 year old daughter watched that part and actually said they "rocked"...this from a non-rocker Hannah Montana lovin type girl.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Ment said:


> ........Adam/KISS - When he came out in that costume part of me groaned imagining the comments about his 'theatrical' side but then KISS came down and it was a "HELL YEAH!" . They need to adopt Adam as a honorary band member that was great!
> .......
> 
> Adam/Kris/Queen - Finally a Queen song, but I kept wanting to drag Kris off stage like Tatiana so only 1 thumbs up for me.
> ...


I would love, love, love it if Adam joined Kiss as an honory member. I've seen them probably about 3-4 times and I would go see them again in a heartbeat if Adam were joining them.

And Queen.....nobody can top Freddie Mercury, but I would very much go see Queen with Adam. I would not go see Queen with Paul Rodgers (as much as I like Bad Company).

And Kris, agreed, would do very well releasing a Country album. He was so at ease and a perfect vocal match for Keith Urban.



Philly Bill said:


> .........KISS was AWESOME! Made my night. When Adam started singing "Beth" all I could think of was "PLEASE let him introduce KISS!".........
> 
> ......Kara rocked too with the singing - I had no idea she could sing so well - and the bikini bit was awesome... she's got some body on her. :up:
> 
> ...


+1000 on KISS.

My jaw dropped when I heard Kara sing. I didn't realize she was that talented.

I realized that it is not that I don't like Kara as a judge, but I just don't like the 4-judge format. Get rid of either Paula or Kara and I would be happy.

[fast] ......Heads up to the office to make room on iPod for KISS Greatest hits.  [/fast]


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> This was the 2nd episode of AI I've seen this season. I wonder when FOX will start airing this live in all timezones like the Oscars?


Probably right around the time the networks air the Emmys live in all time zones.



aindik said:


> I watched it recorded. My recording was tainted only once by an Amber alert. At 10:02 p.m.  Apparently while the other Amber alerts were going on, my recording kept on trucking, which is nice.
> 
> We got hit with amber alerts while we were watching, but they were live, not recorded. I could tell becaues the time was on the screen. Did you know that Comcast can hijack a TiVo HD (one with a CableCARD, at least) and show a live amber alert or an EBS alert while I'm watching a recording, and that, when it does, there's nothing you can do to make it go away?


Yes, and it cuts into Comcast cable boxes as well (the channel number switches to "EAS" when this happens).

Whenever I get sent an EAS or Amber Alert, my screen just goes gray (on both my Series 3 and my HDXL), and if I was recording at the time, it just jumps over the alert.

I recall seeing one time where an EAS caused a window to show up on one of my TiVos (can't remember which one) with a horizontal scroll saying they were having an EAS test, and the recording was unaffected; I wonder what happened to that technology?



dandrewk said:


> JohnB1000 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm certainly not saying that winning is a measure of future success, but so far only winners + daughtry have sold records
> ...


Hudson has done quite well for acting, but did she sell that many records?

(For that matter, who "sells records" nowadays? Somebody needs to find a new name for this...)

-- Don


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

> I would love, love, love it if Adam joined Kiss as an honory member. I've seen them probably about 3-4 times and I would go see them again in a heartbeat if Adam were joining them.


Huh??

To do what...prance around and sing backup? He can't play an instrument that I know of, Ace and Gene are the main singers, so what the heck would Adam do for the group?


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Paul Rodgers and the shameless half of Queen are now finished so there is a spot open. Gene seemed really odd to me last night, thinner and more goofy than usual, maybe he's replaced himself.

For all those pointing out Constantine etc. I have only ever really referred to "record sales" and I don't take this as seriously as some I think


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> AT&T has confirmed that 38 million votes came from the state of Arkansas alone. It was treated like a professionally run political campaign, organizing parties with thousands of people, giving them free food with AT&T (an American Idol sponsor) giving away *FREE GoPhones* and teaching how to mass text vote. People were bragging they'd texted anywhere from 20,000 to 80,000 times.
> 
> _"In Conway after Tuesday's performances, fans at the Estes Stadium watch party took out wireless phones and started making calls and firing off text messages - some voting on their own devices and others on phones borrowed from AT&T, which supplied about 50 display units and representatives to teach multiple "power texting."
> 
> ...


I don't know what to think about that, but "not cool" comes to mind.
But then again, what else do they have going in Conway, AR? I'll give them this moment in the spotlight (well, it's not even theirs, but anyway).


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

urwathrtz said:


> I thought the finale was, meh. Entertaining but basically, meh. The wife and I stopped giving a crap who won last week when Danny was voted off. (Favorite part of last night, Danny and Lionel)
> One thing I can't figure out is, everyone we talked to that watches the show voted for Adam. Who voted for Chris?!?!? An enigma wrapped in a mystery.


After reading that article linked to above (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7284139#post7284139), I'd say that the reason he won is because Conway, AR came out in force for him.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

He won because he got the most votes.

Interesting that I couldn't get through to vote at all, yet one small town could have such an impact 

edit: Having now read the article, it's laughable to think that 2000 or so "power voter" could really influence the result. There is nothing in that particular article that suggests anything out of the ordinary happened.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> (For that matter, who "sells records" nowadays? Somebody needs to find a new name for this...)


I think you can fairly say that a copy of a piece of recorded music is a "record" no matter what format it's in.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Lori said:


> You only need 35,000 to fill a stadium. I guarantee that he got 40+ Million votes... Pretty sure that he could fill a stadium.
> 
> I hate concerts. Hate them. There are only three or four acts on this planet that I would buy a ticket to see live. That number increased by one this season.
> 
> ...


It costs virtually nothing to text in a vote. Getting 35,000 people to actually pay for tickets is another thing. Selling out stadiums for years is a little over the top. He'll have some success but look at perfomers that sell out stadiums, he's got a long way to go to get to that level.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> edit: Having now read the article, it's laughable to think that 2000 or so "power voter" could really influence the result. There is nothing in that particular article that suggests anything out of the ordinary happened.


A show sponsor providing free Go Phones to facilitate power voting for one specific contestant is, to me, out of the ordinary.
2000 people power texting only 5,000 votes each is 10 million votes. Many fast power texters ( repeatedly resending to groups) can get in far more than 5,000 votes each. Texters get no busy signals.

And even at the conservative rate of 5,000 votes per voter - that's "only" 7600 people required for 38 million votes. The article noted only one stadium party and there were several throughout the state.

I'm not saying anything other than it is interesting, and that in hindsight come album sales time it could represent a limited regional appeal. That's not good news to record companies.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

JFriday said:


> It costs virtually nothing to text in a vote. Getting 35,000 people to actually pay for tickets is another thing. Selling out stadiums for years is a little over the top. He'll have some success but look at perfomers that sell out stadiums, he's got a long way to go to get to that level.


Agreed. Dave Matthews Band who has TONS of rabid followers and has been touring for 16+ years still has trouble filling stadiums. I don't see Adam doing so.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Alfer said:


> Huh??
> 
> To do what...prance around and sing backup? He can't play an instrument that I know of, Ace and Gene are the main singers, so what the heck would Adam do for the group?


He could put a star over his eye and call himself Paul Stanley. Seems to be pretty much what happens in Kiss these days


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

So Kara proved that she has more nuts than Paula, when it comes to singing live, using her real voice instead of some digitally editted recording of her voice.


I wasn't impressed with David Cooke. He was my favorite a year ago, but lately he's been singing ballady songs, which isn't what I expected from him. At this point, I prefer both Adam and Kris over David.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Cooke is a bit stuck with his Idol contract, having to sing what they approve of. I don't like this new song of his much. I do like that Turn The Light Off (or on ?) song. I also like that he's a happy decent guy, which is where Daughtry's professional miserableness lets him down IMHO


----------



## jpcapili (May 13, 2009)

who wouldn't want to see this?


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I figured Kris had it when I watched the back home visits tonight and last night and last week. Kris's town was huge. Adam had close up shots and inside. You could never really tell if there was a lot of people.

Kat McPhee had the same problem a couple of years ago. It seems the large cities really aren't all that interested and are more diverse. The small towns shut down and celebrate.

San Diego is a more conservative community. I don't know if that had any impact but in general the small towns across america seem to win over the big towns.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

timckelley said:


> So Kara proved that she has more nuts than Paula, when it comes to singing live, using her real voice instead of some digitally editted recording of her voice.
> 
> I wasn't impressed with David Cooke. He was my favorite a year ago, but lately he's been singing ballady songs, which isn't what I expected from him. At this point, I prefer both Adam and Kris over David.


I'm pretty sure that David wrote that song for his dying brother. I thought that it was a powerful performance.

I'm sure that he'll go back to being a pop-rocker soon enough.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

From MJ's Blog



> UPDATE: TV host, Billy Bush just tweeted this: "Source at the top says Votes were NOT close on idol. IE kris blew out adam lambert"
> 
> So, check this out. The state of Arkansas was representin' in Idol votes last night, according to FOX16. I'm guessing the lions share of these were mostly for winner Kris Allen.
> 
> ...


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Exhibit A for why we have an electoral college.


/ducks


----------



## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Bikini Girl looked really pissed.

I think the other stunts were pre-planned but not this one.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

aindik said:


> Exhibit A for why we have an electoral college.
> 
> /ducks


It's not like these people are running the country.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

wendiness1 said:


> Bikini Girl looked really pissed.
> 
> I think the other stunts were pre-planned but not this one.


It was pre-planned but she wasn't let in on it. The look on her face was priceless, she was rattled.


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

aindik said:


> Exhibit A for why we have an electoral college.
> 
> /ducks


Yep, because the only other alternative for presidential elections over the electoral college is a toll free number you're allowed to call as many times as you want.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, I did think they might have been a little too rough on the bikini girl.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Also, I was surprised that put Tatiana in the same category of all those other girls, who could not sing a note. Tatiana did make it to the top 27, after all.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

FourFourSeven said:


> Yep, because the only other alternative for presidential elections over the electoral college is a toll free number you're allowed to call as many times as you want.


It's an analogy. It shows how one region of the country can dominate a democratic process. That they do it via voting more than once each is kinda beside the point.


----------



## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

JFriday said:


> It was pre-planned but she wasn't let in on it. The look on her face was priceless, she was rattled.


Oops. That's what I meant. SHE wasn't in on it.


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'm certainly not saying that winning is a measure of future success, but so far only winners + daughtry have sold records...


Top selling American Idol alumni. Two of the top four are non-winners.

Non winners have 10 gold albums. Winners have 12 gold albums


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

timckelley said:


> Yes, I did think they might have been a little too rough on the bikini girl.


Disagree. She was an idiot from the start, and deserved ridicule.



timckelley said:


> Also, I was surprised that put Tatiana in the same category of all those other girls, who could not sing a note. Tatiana did make it to the top 27, after all.


Disagree. She was an idiot from the start, and deserved ridicule.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

FourFourSeven said:


> Top selling American Idol alumni. Two of the top four are non-winners.
> 
> Non winners have 10 gold albums. Winners have 12 gold albums


Yet winners have 23X Platinum and non-winners have only 8X platinum. Only 2 non-winners have gone platinum yet almost all winners have.


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

aindik said:


> It's an analogy. It shows how one region of the country can dominate a democratic process. That they do it via voting more than once each is kinda beside the point.


Going way off topic here, so I'm going to stop after this, but once you ignore the multiple votes, if a region has more people, why shouldn't it dominate the process? They have more people! Does it really make sense instead for Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida to dominate the process, and New York, Texas, and California to essentially have no say? Because that's what happens with the electoral college.

Okay, sorry, back to Idol.


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

JFriday said:


> Yet winners have 23X Platinum and non-winners have only 8X platinum. Only 2 non-winners have gone platinum yet almost all winners have.


Agreed - the winners have been more successful. But JFriday said "only winners + daughtry have sold albums." Ten gold albums by non-winners kind of disproves that point.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

FourFourSeven said:


> Okay, sorry, back to Idol.


Before we return back to Idol, I request that aindik get the last word, and once that's done, then we can return back to Idol.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

FourFourSeven said:


> Agreed - the winners have been more successful. But JFriday said "only winners + daughtry have sold albums." Ten gold albums by non-winners kind of disproves that point.


Can you show me where I said that?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

FourFourSeven said:


> Going way off topic here, so I'm going to stop after this, but once you ignore the multiple votes, if a region has more people, why shouldn't it dominate the process? They have more people! Does it really make sense instead for Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida to dominate the process, and New York, Texas, and California to essentially have no say? Because that's what happens with the electoral college.
> 
> Okay, sorry, back to Idol.


You have to think about what would happen, and who would dominate, without the electoral college.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> AT&T says about 38 million American Idol votes came from Arkansas last night.


So basically, the reason Kris won was unfortunately not at all because of his music, but because the people of Conway, AR basically have nothing else to to. 

I think Kris was a worthy winner, but that's just a sad way to win.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Basically, Kris cheated and doesn't deserve his crown. 

Adam is the real winner!

/runs from thread.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

/sneaks back into thread

How about this system. Abolish the call in voting, and instead let the system by more like a republic than a democracy: The 4 judges get to decide each week is eliminated. F the American callers and their uneducated picks of who should go. 

To further refine this: not all judges get equal weight: Paula and Kara each get one vote, Randy gets 2, and Simon gets 5. Americans calling in, get zero.


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

JFriday said:


> Can you show me where I said that?


I'm sorry - I attributed the quote to the wrong person - it was JohnB1000 who said it.


----------



## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

I watched this last night and really enjoyed it & made very little use of FF. I'm dumping it off my TiVO to DVD now for a TiVo-less neighbor who's on vacation and am actually watching most of it again.

I'm still sad to see how old Rod Stewart is and can't imagine that he has the stamina to do a 15 city tour this summer.


----------



## SuperZippy (Feb 12, 2002)

dandrewk said:


> Kris is sooo.... ordinary. Absolutely nothing stands out. *Weakest winner ever, *


ruben stoddard and fantasia down...?


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

jpcapili said:


> who wouldn't want to see this?


I LOVED Seacrest's comment to BG:

"I'd ask you what's new, but I think I already know" 

Similar to the question he asked Kellie Pickler a couple of years ago:

"So... what have you been spending your money on?"


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

MauriAnne said:


> I'm still sad to see how old Rod Stewart is and can't imagine that he has the stamina to do a 15 city tour this summer.


He looked like he could use a walker at times.


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

SuperZippy said:


> ruben stoddard and fantasia down...?


Yes, worse. Ruben and Fantasia both can flat out sing. Both are double platinum in album sales, and Fantasia is starring on Broadway.

Kris has a decent voice, but no more. No originality in his interpretation, he will blindly do whatever his corporate sponsors tell him. IOW, expect a bland pop album, which will go nowhere. His stage presence is boring. He's cute, so's his wife, but that won't translate to lasting success.

He's a genuine good kid and a great story, but by next year, everyone will have forgotten. Two years from now, we'll use Google to remember who won this year.


----------



## SuperZippy (Feb 12, 2002)

bikini girl is way hotter than the judge..


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> AT&T has confirmed that 38 million votes came from the state of Arkansas alone.


Can you tell me where this stat came from? I don't see it in the article.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

SuperZippy said:


> bikini girl is way hotter than the judge..


I have to admit, I like her looks better now with the implants than before.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

I'd say this USA Today review pretty much sums up my thoughts on it nicely:



> If you're trying to sell us on the idea that these people are all, as Kara DioGuardi kept saying, "artists," is it really wise to showcase the soon-to-be-touring Top 10 in group routines that reek of elementary school show choir? If you want to sell tickets, you should be focusing on the strong singers who landed on top, not reminding us of how weak the singers were at the bottom. Or, for that matter, how off-key they sound as a group......


http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/reviews/2009-05-20-idol-analysis_N.htm


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

dandrewk said:


> Can you tell me where this stat came from? I don't see it in the article.


This is the link where the story first appeared.
http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/Conway-reacts-to-Kris-win/sv8BNSsGY0G8GRZWSr0fRw.cspx
As you can see it was "updated" at 11am and is no longer stating the number as fact.

It is also listed on the Arkansas Speaker of the House's website here-
http://www.robbiewills.com/2009/05/20/american-idol-votes-are-in/

I'm betting that will be gone soon as well.
Spin is kicking in.

In the long run it doesn't much matter- both Kris and Adam already have shiney new RCA websites.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Alfer said:


> I'd say this USA Today review pretty much sums up my thoughts on it nicely:
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/reviews/2009-05-20-idol-analysis_N.htm


I don't agree with him that it was a bad finale, I really enjoyed it. But I do agree with this: "Never mind that the awards gimmick calls to mind '60s variety corn; this is a night that should be dedicated to celebrating the talented, not mocking the deluded."

I don't like that they bring back the losers from the beginning of the show and make fun of them.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> Spin is kicking in


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

SuperZippy said:


> bikini girl is way hotter than the judge..


Yep.

Kara is that boney-skinny look that scares me a bit.

I really think the Tatiana thing was a total skit. If not, those are the worst/weakest body guards ever. She got away from them easily about 7 times.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Yep.
> 
> Kara is that boney-skinny look that scares me a bit.
> 
> I really think the Tatiana thing was a total skit. If not, those are the worst/weakest body guards ever. She got away from them easily about 7 times.


Of course it was a bit, just because she's talking they can still break away for a commercial.


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

I think she was good sport, to play along and have a bit of fun with her obvious neurosis.

I really enjoyed Tatiana, she's some piece of work. I think we've all known someone just like her.


----------



## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

Bikini girl was way hotter than Kara with or without the implants. Kara was too skinny and boney, bikini girl has a nice shape all over.

It's funny, when Seacrest said to Kris 'here's your trophy', after announcing that he had won, all I saw was the girl in the green dress walking toward him. I didn't see she had anything in her hands.

First thought was...nice trophy, but his wife is going to make him give it back.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

dandrewk said:


> I think she was good sport, to play along and have a bit of fun with her obvious neurosis.


I don't think she did it to be a good sport - I think she did it to get in front of a TV camera one more time.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

wendiness1 said:


> Bikini Girl looked really pissed.
> 
> I think the other stunts were pre-planned but not this one.


 I didn't really think it was funny.

Kara is a mean girl and has been to Bikini girl from the get-go. Not that Bikini Girl is such a stellar person, but Kara is the professional.

It came off very childish.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

NJChris said:


> I didn't really think it was funny.
> 
> Kara is a mean girl and has been to Bikini girl from the get-go. Not that Bikini Girl is such a stellar person, but Kara is the professional.
> 
> It came off very childish.


It was funny at first, but I agree that Kara overdid it, and when the bikini girl started looking offended, I felt kind of sorry for her. For not being in the top 13, she's actually not that bad a singer, but she got agressively drowned out by Kara.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

FourFourSeven said:


> Going way off topic here, so I'm going to stop after this, but once you ignore the multiple votes, if a region has more people, why shouldn't it dominate the process? They have more people! Does it really make sense instead for Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida to dominate the process, and New York, Texas, and California to essentially have no say? Because that's what happens with the electoral college.
> 
> Okay, sorry, back to Idol.


Umm, New York, Texas, and California have a HUGE say in elections. The problem is that they're not generally up for grabs like some of the swing states are, so they don't get as much attention.


jlb said:


> My jaw dropped when I heard Kara sing. I didn't realize she was that talented.


The very first episode of the auditions, when Bikini Girl was on and Kara sang to show Bikini Girl why her singing wasn't that great, I knew that Kara was a very good singer. It's funny that she's really the only one of the four judges that has any singing chops, yet she seemed to be the least effective judge this whole season.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

dandrewk said:


> Kris is sooo.... ordinary. Absolutely nothing stands out. Weakest winner ever, he'll be lucky to go gold with his first album. But a nice "dark horse" story nonetheless.


cmon... taylor has that title



timckelley said:


> So Kara proved that she has more nuts than Paula, when it comes to singing live, using her real voice instead of some digitally editted recording of her voice.


cuz paula can't sing



wendiness1 said:


> Bikini Girl looked really pissed.
> 
> I think the other stunts were pre-planned but not this one.


i like how she was maddogging kara at the end. also, it seemed like they turned down her mike a bit.



DevdogAZ said:


> The very first episode of the auditions, when Bikini Girl was on and Kara sang to show Bikini Girl why her singing wasn't that great, I knew that Kara was a very good singer. It's funny that she's really the only one of the four judges that has any singing chops, yet she seemed to be the least effective judge this whole season.


i've decided what i don't like about kara... she uses her arms too much when she talks.. pointing and gesturing.... quite offputting


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

KISS certainly is trying to take advantage of their appearance last night. Check out the home page on their website:










I love the line "Glambert meets KISS, best thing on Idol all year".


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I'd like to see the voting method changed - instead of calling in or texting, people wanting to vote would need to buy the song (from iTunes and/or elsewhere) in order to show their support. Then we'd really see who had the most commercial appeal.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> I'd like to see the voting method changed - instead of calling in or texting, people wanting to vote would need to buy the song (from iTunes and/or elsewhere) in order to show their support. Then we'd really see who had the most commercial appeal.


I think I've read that once or twice on this forum. 

:up::up:


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

aindik said:


> I think I've read that once or twice on this forum.
> 
> :up::up:




I like that idea too. It's not like $1 is even a huge sum of money. But it would probably change the demographics of the voters around quite a bit... the question is, is it a better predictor of post-Idol success? Apple would have the answer right now probably, I wonder if there has ever been any figures released about that.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I like that idea too. It's not like $1 is even a huge sum of money.


I think people would be less likely to vote more than once if each vote cost $1. They can give the money to charity.

I think the winner should be the person with the most cumulative sales over the course of the whole show, not the person with the most sales in a given week. Conversely, the person voted off would be the person with the lowest number of cumulative downloads as of that week.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

MickeS said:


> I like that idea too. It's not like $1 is even a huge sum of money. But it would probably change the demographics of the voters around quite a bit... the question is, is it a better predictor of post-Idol success? Apple would have the answer right now probably, I wonder if there has ever been any figures released about that.


The leaked data from Itunes have Adam dominating which shows that the online demo is different than the telephone demo. http://www.nypost.com/seven/04282009/tv/idols_itunes_shocker_166567.htm Since then, Kris may have made up ground since he did the very good version of 'Heartless'.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The problem is, I would guess that the audience of the TV show is very different from the potential audience of a concert for an Idol. People watch TV because it's free and it's now and they can talk to their friends about it the next morning, etc. I'd guess that the percentage of people who regularly watch AI who actually care about owning any of the music from the performers is relatively small. 

Let's not forget that for a TV show to be successful, it has to draw as many viewers as possible and then it can sell ads for a lot of money. It has to appeal to a huge demographic. Conversely, to be successful as a musician, you don't have to draw as many fans as you can. You have to develop your core fans and appeal to them. Trying to be what everyone wants is a recipe for disaster.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Well, they could also do a mix of sales and text/phone voting, where sales would be weighted to compensate for the smaller volume but higher investment by the voter.

I think that although iTunes has been mature as a player in online content sales for a while, the time is right to introduce this element in the voting. Enough people from many different demographics have access to it that it would be a good complement to the other voting methods.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, I posted that before the put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is strategy was posted, and I agree that the free enterprise strategy makes sense.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Outstanding Male goes to Nick Mitchell/*Normund* Gentle... I now remember that I haven't missed this...





jay_man2 said:


> Nice to see *Normund* Gentle again.





photoshopgrl said:


> I also was loving the whole *Normund* thing as well as the Tatiana thing, which I'm not convinced was 100% sketched.


Is there some inside joke I'm missing? What's up with people spelling "Norman" incorrectly?


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

ewilts said:


> The goal is simply to sign the person who will sell the most music. Are we agreed on that?
> 
> Then pick the winner by who sells the most songs on iTunes during the previous week and the finals night.
> 
> When people start paying 99 cents to vote, they won't vote 20-80,000 times...


AI wants to say they had 1 million votes for a reason, so they can charge more for advertisements. 50,000 votes would not create the buzz 1 million votes does. They really don't care who wins, they have them both locked up. Why would they change anything that would decrease the number of votes.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Is there some inside joke I'm missing? What's up with people spelling "Norman" incorrectly?


The cyron on the the show spelled it that way. I think that's the way Nick spells the character's name.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> The cyron on the the show spelled it that way. I think that's the way Nick spells the character's name.


No it didn't. I specifically looked because I'd seen "Normund" on the forum quite a bit, so I made sure to check when they put the name up in last night's show, and it definitely said "Norman Gentle."


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Apparently, Queen has expressed "some" interest in Adam as their new lead singer. This was discussed during the Fox News interview with Adam this morning.......


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I think I am done with Idol. I faded last year. This year I was strong early on but once they hit hollywood I faded out and only saw a few shows.

I used to watch every minute of the show, but for some reason it just doesn't interest me at all any more.


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Regarding the comment on Adam filling stadiums, when they sang with Queen, Adam rose above the background while Kris was barely there. You need a huge presence (voice and, dare I say, theatrics) on stage to sing in front of a huge audience.

If the AI producers put the right band and song writers around Adam and he is willing to work at it, there's no reason he couldn't be huge.

Here's a question that came up at work today, what are the current stadium filling bands, ie Journey, Aerosmith, U2, Queen, Kiss, GnR, etc.? Yeah, several of those bands are still playing, but I can't think of a huge rock band. Then again, maybe I'm just getting old. 

-murray


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

murrays said:


> Here's a question that came up at work today, what are the current stadium filling bands, ie Journey, Aerosmith, U2, Queen, Kiss, GnR, etc.? Yeah, several of those bands are still playing, but I can't think of a huge rock band. Then again, maybe I'm just getting old.
> 
> -murray


That's a good question. The only major concerts that seem to come around here are all Bands from previous _decades_. I always figured it was the fault of the Record Companies. Ever since Frampton sold that darn live album to every single household in the known world (yes we had a copy too), they seem only interested in "the next big thing". Rather than promoting talent, they simply want "new." Even if "new" sucks. Daughtry is the only "new" rock album I've bought in years. Then again, he's fairly "old school" so that's probably why I like him.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Lori said:


> Constantine just got nominated for a Tony.
> 
> I'm just saying.


If he wins I've lost all respect for Broadway.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

jlb said:


> Apparently, Queen has expressed "some" interest in Adam as their new lead singer. This was discussed during the Fox News interview with Adam this morning.......


God I hope not, I want to listen to an Adam album, not have him go the J.D. Fortune- INXS route. He can always open for them if wants.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I would go see Queen with Adam. I would not pay a lot, but I would go.


----------



## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Is there some inside joke I'm missing? What's up with people spelling "Norman" incorrectly?


It's always been Normund.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1605923/20090226/story.jhtml

http://www.joesplaceblog.com/2009/02/normund-gentle/

http://normundgentle.wordpress.com/

http://blogs.usatoday.com/idolchatter/2009/02/normund-gentle.html

http://votefortheworst.com/tags/normund_gentle

http://www.normundy.com/index.php?itemid=127


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

murrays said:


> Here's a question that came up at work today, what are the current stadium filling bands, ie Journey, Aerosmith, U2, Queen, Kiss, GnR, etc.? Yeah, several of those bands are still playing, but I can't think of a huge rock band. Then again, maybe I'm just getting old.
> 
> -murray


Probably U2 is the only one of that list that could do it consistently without a gimmick like a re-union tour. Maybe add Aerosmith when their new album comes out (how is their current tour going?). Other bands that could still fill stadiums based on recent work (within the last 5 yrs), AC/DC, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Bon Jovi.


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

bruinfan said:


> cmon... taylor has that title


Taylor Hicks had that whole Bob Seger thing going for him, along with the "soul patrol".

Kris has none of that. He's boiler plate, cookie cutter and will come pre-packaged for the masses. There will be no surprises. His only hope for long term success is some great writers and great songs.

None of this is his fault. He seems genuinely reluctant to be the winner. He seems like a good guy, and I hope the best for him. But I don't have a lot of hope that he will achieve success. My bets are he has already peaked.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Ment said:


> Probably U2 is the only one of that list that could do it consistently without a gimmick like a re-union tour. Maybe add Aerosmith when their new album comes out (how is their current tour going?). Other bands that could still fill stadiums based on recent work (within the last 5 yrs), AC/DC, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Bon Jovi.


I find it interesting that there isn't a single "new" band in the bunch and in fact, most have members that are as old as I am! Are there any NEW bands that can fill stadiums?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jay_man2 said:


> It's always been Normund.
> 
> http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1605923/20090226/story.jhtml
> 
> ...


Believe me, I googled before I posted about it. While there are plenty of instances of "Normund" to be found, there are far more instances of "Norman." Here are several from reputable news sources:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29397387

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/27/entertainment/main4833562.shtml

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/02/idol-contestant.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...nick_mitchell_aka_norman_gentle_defies_a.html

http://tvwatch.people.com/2009/02/26/poll-should-norman-gentle-make-idols-top-12/

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1604824/20090211/story.jhtml

http://www.usmagazine.com/news/norman-gentle-sent-home-on-american-idol-2009272

From the official American Idol website:
http://www.americanidol.com/videos/season_8/performances/nick_mitchell_and_i_am_telling_you

And his Facebook page: 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Norman-Gentle/51881733341


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Here's my take on the "base the vote on buys" concept.

_American Idol_ does very, very well in the ratings, which is what translates into advertising dollars. Right now, some percentage of those millions of viewers actually make the effort to vote. Still illicits millions of votes. Now, take that concept and restrict it to the only votes that count are limited to those that want to pay $1 per vote. The actual number of votes is going to tank big time. If the producers are happy with that, so be it.

However, I've had this discussion with a number of friends; and myself and many others are pretty much of the mind that if there will be such a small number of votes determining the outcome, what's the use of even watching. None of us are willing to have to pay for voting. I would bet that my small circle is certainly not representative of the entire AI demographic, but I also doubt that we're the only ones of the same mind. You get enough people turned off by the 'pay-per-vote' system, and you start to hurt the ratings, which hurts your ad revenue.

I would also assume that if the producers felt they could maintain or increase their profit margin by going to a 'pay-per-vote' system despite what drop in ratings that could result, by golly, they'd be doing it. Because the producers are not producing _American Idol_ as a vehicle to present to America a new artist for the enjoyment and betterment of the American people, they are producing _American Idol_ to make money, pure and simple.

On the flip side, maybe it would be better if they went to a 'pay-per-vote' system. That way I could devote that much more time to watching other programs I'm recording!


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Philly Bill said:


> It's probably better for him that he finished second. We'll be hearing from him for years to come. I said before he's the next Freddie Mercury... look how well he fit in with Kiss and Queen.


I agree. I see a lot of Freddy Mercury in him. He's a talented performer with a flair for theatrics. He likes to push the envelope and challenge you. I think he's gonna a big name.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

scooterboy said:


> Disagree. She was an idiot from the start, and deserved ridicule.
> 
> Disagree. She was an idiot from the start, and deserved ridicule.


I fully agree!!!!

I had wanted Tatiana to make it into the finals and go through just one or two rounds because I wanted to see her get crushed. My partner thinks I'm evil for saying it, but I really wanted to see her devastated for all the pain she inflicted upon millions of viewers.


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Ment said:


> Probably U2 is the only one of that list that could do it consistently without a gimmick like a re-union tour. Maybe add Aerosmith when their new album comes out (how is their current tour going?). Other bands that could still fill stadiums based on recent work (within the last 5 yrs), AC/DC, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Bon Jovi.


I wasn't asking what old bands can fill a stadium, I was asking what bands from _this_ decade could fill a stadium? Has the popularity of big rock bands gone away? Or is the time right for Adam to front the next Bon Jovi?

-murray


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

bareyb said:


> I find it interesting that there isn't a single "new" band in the bunch and in fact, most have members that are as old as I am! Are there any NEW bands that can fill stadiums?


The closest I can think of stretching the term 'new' would be Linkin Park. Since the post-music video era artists are hard-pressed to stay on top for long as it's harder for a few record labels to push a selected roster of artists thru airplay with Itunes, MySpace, American Idol taking away alot of punch from the major labels. There are parallels to comparing how movies stars from the studio system times are viewed to todays stars.

Kid Rock might qualify as well.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

murrays said:


> I wasn't asking what old bands can fill a stadium, I was asking what bands from _this_ decade could fill a stadium? Has the popularity of big rock bands gone away? Or is the time right for Adam to front the next Bon Jovi?
> 
> -murray


Stadium Rock just doesn't seem to be as popular I guess.

Still, here's something to consider..... Even those big bands that were brought up didn't start filling stadiums until later in their career. I think, by virtue of size, a band usually needs to be around for a while before they have a fan base that large where they can reliably fill stadiums.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Did anyone ever hear what happened during the Black Eye Peas performance? It cut to a Fox American Idol screensaver for a few moments. I was wondering if anyone had details on that.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

So is it the nature of the music/fans of today that they simply don't want to go to a show in a venue as big as a stadium? 
Or is it that there is only a certain type of music that works in such a venue, and there really aren't any new artists playing that type of music? 
Or, as I suspect, is the music industry much more fragmented so it's difficult for a new act to generate the kid of following required to sell out a stadium tour?


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> So is it the nature of the music/fans of today that they simply don't want to go to a show in a venue as big as a stadium?


I'm going to see George Strait at Reliant Stadium in August.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

bobcarn said:


> Stadium Rock just doesn't seem to be as popular I guess.
> 
> Still, here's something to consider..... Even those big bands that were brought up didn't start filling stadiums until later in their career. I think, by virtue of size, a band usually needs to be around for a while before they have a fan base that large where they can reliably fill stadiums.


Exactly what I was going to say, no one fills stadiums alone in their first 10 years, truth is very few fill stadiums alone even today.

funnily enough The Killers fill stadiums in the UK, they are the only example I can think of. 
_EDIT to add that some of the country bands might be filling stadiums ??_

Similar though is that it's hard to predict who from today might go on to fill stadiums but the truth is that each generation is probably only going to produce 4-5 bands as it is.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Langree said:


> I'm going to see George Strait at Reliant Stadium in August.


Which does nothing to answer the question about whether there are any new acts (from this decade) that could legitimately schedule a stadium tour. There's no question that there are several acts from the 60s-80s that could sell out stadiums. There might be a couple from the 90s. But nobody has yet mentioned an act from the last 10 years that could do so.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

nSync and Britney have done stadium tours (though not recently of course)

Coldplay are this decade I think.

I don't think bands really like playing in stadiums


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Biggest Tours of 2008

Bon Jovi, Bruce and Madonna are still packing them in.

The biggest act that hasn't been around for 20+ years? Just from that list, it looks like Kenny Chesney and Rascal Flatts. Not rock bands.

How long have the Spice Girls been around? I can't believe they are on that list, but apparently people are still willing to pay to see them.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Spice Girls reformed for a one off tour.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Magnolia88 said:


> Biggest Tours of 2008
> 
> Bon Jovi, Bruce and Madonna are still packing them in.
> 
> ...


According to that list, only Madonna averaged over 30k fans per show. Springsteen averaged just over 25k. Bon Jovi just shy of 22k. Everyone else was under 20k. Doesn't seem like anyone is playing to sold out stadiums anymore.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> According to that list, only Madonna averaged over 30k fans per show. Springsteen averaged just over 25k. Bon Jovi just shy of 22k. Everyone else was under 20k. Doesn't seem like anyone is playing to sold out stadiums anymore.


Not exactly hard to figure out why when you look at the ticket prices these days. I bet the artists make more now playing for 15k people than they did playing twice that crowd in the 90's. Which also explains why newer artists can't fill stadiums - their audience doesn't have the deep pockets of the crowds going to see the established (read old ) artists.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Stadium shows suck. I see shows at small venues.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jesda said:


> Stadium shows suck. I see shows at small venues.


Yeah, but as events they can be a lot of fun, and provide a different sort of entertainment. But I think people these days prefer to pay $20 to see an artist in a smaller venue rather than $200 to go to an arena and see an artist. Which is the correct choice IMO.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

danterner said:


> My daughter, age 9, upon seeing KISS for the first time:
> 
> "What?? They need haircuts, BAD! Their shoes are like Bratz-doll shoes! And they should really grow up already..."


Hahahaha. :up:

Tell her to get used to it Dad. If Gene Simmons has anything to do with it he'll have KISS go on forever - like Menudo...

*THIS *little four year old drummer is digging KISS... WooHoo!!!


----------



## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

Philly Bill said:


> Hahahaha. :up:
> 
> Tell her to get used to it Dad. If Gene Simmons has anything to do with it he'll have KISS go on forever - like Menudo...
> 
> *THIS *little four year old drummer is digging KISS... WooHoo!!!


I guess Adam won't be joining KISS anytime soon. From Gene Simon's website:

Gene..
You rocked tonight on American Idol. Like always. U R a rock god!!!!!
If you cant can you hook Adam Lambert up with someone to get him started on the way to be another rock god like you.
My opinion is: Adam should of won American idol hands down. He is amazing. I have bought everything there is to buy of him on I tunes and I voted hundreds of times for him on Tuesday nights. actually sat here and voted and voted for hours for him. 
Hope you actually get this and can send Adam somewhere he can start his rock n roll career .
Take care and big ass hugs to you, Jodie

Response from Gene:

Respectfully,
I don't think Adam is a rock singer. He sounds much more convincing singing ballads, and Broadway shows. His voice doesn't seem to have a "rock quality." But, I'm sure he's going to do just fine.​
Ouch! I agree that he will have a great Broadway career. I'm just not sure what kind of album he'll put out. I don't buy him as a rocker either.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

I enjoyed watching that interview with Adam posted above.. then I saw this Demo while in youtube. Fun stuff.


----------



## Derbyman (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks for the link to Adams Demo Reel. I noticed he had over 2,075,251 views on youtube on this one video alone. I can't imagine Kris having anywhere near that kind of appeal. Adam will go on and will be a huge success at whatever he does. The kid already has an international audience, the amount of votes he could have received if they somehow would have been able to vote would have been crazy. The 38 million Arkansas voters would have seen what real star power is:up:


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

lodica1967 said:


> I guess Adam won't be joining KISS anytime soon. From Gene Simon's website:
> 
> Gene..
> You rocked tonight on American Idol. Like always. U R a rock god!!!!!
> ...


I can totally picture him touring with Queen after watching him perform with them on last night's show.


----------



## Derbyman (Jan 7, 2009)

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/05/21/joseph_american_idol/

MARK JOSEPH: Kris Allen's "American Idol" Victory Marks the Return of People of Faith to American Popular Music

By Mark Joseph
Producer/Author/Editor, BullyPulpit.com

I don't watch American Idol, but I have been keeping up with what the L.A. Times, Newsweek and "The O'Reilly Factor "have been saying about an alleged red-state/blue-state showdown between the two finalists, Kris Allen and Adam Lambert. Allen, it turns out is a "worship leader" at his church, which in non-Evangeli-speak roughly translates to "guy who leads the singing," while Adam Lambert is the contestant who has seen photographs of himself allegedly kissing other guys splashed across the Internet. Although Lambert didn't exactly confirm his sexual orientation other than to say that he knows who he is, it was widely seen as the showdown between the gay guy and the Christian guy, with a judgment to be rendered by middle America.

----

The voting patterns of "Idol" viewers and the large presence of Christian performers heralds a new era of integration into mainstream culture by people of faith.

http://www.mtv.com/videos/news/393247/american-idol-recap-finale-week.jhtml#name=news&id=1605360
Yup, Kris's vote really turned out.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Derbyman said:


> http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/05/21/joseph_american_idol/
> 
> MARK JOSEPH: Kris Allen's "American Idol" Victory Marks the Return of People of Faith to American Popular Music
> 
> ...


I wonder how many of the voters there even watched the show? 

Oh and I just have to comment on this idiot's comment in the article: "Not that there's anything wrong with affinity voting - after all 96% of African-Americans voted for Obama. "

What he fails to mention, and probably doesn't even KNOW, is that Al Gore received 90% of their votes. That's because they vote Democratic in extremely large numbers. The vote for Obama among African-Americans was only barely higher than it was for Al Gore. Is Al Gore black too? Kerry, received, IIRC, even more than 90% of the black vote.

Sorry, that statistic about Obama is repeated so many times without proper context that I just am so tired of seeing it. Not that the rest of the article is any better...


----------



## TiVoCrastinator (Jul 30, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> Or, as I suspect, is the music industry much more fragmented so it's difficult for a new act to generate the kid of following required to sell out a stadium tour?


This.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Derbyman said:


> The 38 million Arkansas voters would have seen what real star power is:up:


You mean the "totally made up" 38 million Arkansas voters ???


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> You mean the "totally made up" 38 million Arkansas voters ???


This sounds interesting. Can you expand?


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

It's not that interesting. Earlier there were references to an article that claimed 38million votes for Kris came from Arkansas. By the time most of us read the article it no longer said that because it wasn't true 

More interestingly I hope you read the follow ups on your new bands don't sell out stadiums thoughts, that one got me thinking a bit


----------



## Derbyman (Jan 7, 2009)

JohnB1000 said:


> You mean the "totally made up" 38 million Arkansas voters ???


http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090521-ENTERTAIN-90521001

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/...-cast-38-million-american-idol-votes-9015.php

http://www.krisallenation.com/

http://www.joesplaceblog.com/2009/0...n-idol-38-million-votes-from-arkansas-helped/

Here's a few links so you can catch up

Wait they are saying it never happened here:

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/...-cast-38-million-american-idol-votes-9016.php


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> It's not that interesting. Earlier there were references to an article that claimed 38million votes for Kris came from Arkansas. By the time most of us read the article it no longer said that because it wasn't true
> 
> *More interestingly I hope you read the follow ups on your new bands don't sell out stadiums thoughts, that one got me thinking a bit *


I did. I thought that discussion was interesting too. 


Derbyman said:


> http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090521-ENTERTAIN-90521001
> 
> http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/...-cast-38-million-american-idol-votes-9015.php
> 
> ...


Man. That's a lot of "misinfo".


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

This whole "showdown between the gay guy and the evangelical" thing is absurd and frankly, I don't think it really occurred. I give Kris and Adam all the credit in the world - Kris never played up the church thing for votes (unlike Gokey). I didn't even know he was involved in the church. It was clear he didn't want people to vote on that, but instead on his singing ability. And Adam never spoke about his sexuality, despite being asked about it hundreds of times. Both these guys were competing on their singing.

On the 38 million voters from Arkansas thing - another example where misinformation spreads so quickly on the internet that it becomes known as "fact" even though it isn't true.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

lodica1967 said:


> I guess Adam won't be joining KISS anytime soon. From Gene Simon's website:
> 
> 
> Response from Gene:
> ...


Seems he gave the press a different story:
_"Adam was fantastic," the KISS frontmant tells Extra. "What a powerful and attractive man he is."

But beyond his vocal talents, Gene thinks Adam has what it takes to rock out with the rest of his band.

"He can come on tour whenever hed like," offered Gene."_
http://www.okmagazine.com/news/view/14438
It all boils down to the fact that the words "Adam Lambert" on a website generates hits, so everyone is printing everything ever uttered by anyone even remotely involved to strike while the iron is hot.

The Queen rumors are a million times more interesting IMO.
I think KISS was just sort of the default "play dress up and rock" act that Idol was able to envision in order to give Adam an opportunity to costume himself the way he wants while still appearing _relatively _mainstream.

Sorry about the 38 million thing.
I just try and bring in news that you may not have otherwise heard.
And even now AT&T does not deny it, they simply said AT&T does not divulge or confirm how many votes were cast in any state.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

For those that say votes should be Itunes sales. I would like to point out that Kris now has 3 songs in the top 10 and Adam only has 1. Oh, and the song from Glee is #1 so maybe this wouldn't be the best way to pick an Idol.

I know the sales from before the finale would be a lot more telling, but do people really just buy his songs (other than the single) because he won?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

realityboy said:


> For those that say votes should be Itunes sales. I would like to point out that Kris now has 3 songs in the top 10 and Adam only has 1. Oh, and the song from Glee is #1 so maybe this wouldn't be the best way to pick an Idol.


Doesn't that just mean that iTunes sales would indeed BE a good way to pick an Idol? I don't understand what you're getting at.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I'm saying that the cast of Glee could be the next Idol if we used sales. Top of Itunes doesn't equal quality or even popularity with the general public.

And most of the people wanting to use sales wanted Adam to win. Kris fans are happy the way things ended up for the most part.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

realityboy said:


> I'm saying that the cast of Glee could be the next Idol if we used sales. Top of Itunes doesn't equal quality or even popularity with the general public.
> 
> And most of the people wanting to use sales wanted Adam to win. Kris fans are happy the way things ended up for the most part.


This would be kinda different, in that Ryan Seacrest would be sending people to iTunes every week to buy the songs of their favorite contestant.

Also, I would kick people off each week based on cumulative sales since the season started, not just their sales from the one week.


----------



## stlarenas (Sep 17, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> Biggest Tours of 2008
> 
> Bon Jovi, Bruce and Madonna are still packing them in.
> 
> ...


I am really surprised Jimmy Buffett and Rush aren't on that list.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

aindik said:


> This would be kinda different, in that Ryan Seacrest would be sending people to iTunes every week to buy the songs of their favorite contestant.
> 
> Also, I would kick people off each week based on cumulative sales since the season started, not just their sales from the one week.


Not everyone has internet access. Less have MP3s. It's a very small portion of people deciding the winner. It's a noble effort, but I couldn't see it actually working. Less people deciding would lead to less watching would lead to even less deciding...


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Derbyman said:


> http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090521-ENTERTAIN-90521001
> 
> http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/...-cast-38-million-american-idol-votes-9015.php
> 
> ...


When ever I need to follow breaking stories I always turn to Joesplaceblog.com!!! Come on if the Reading Eagle is not reporting it, it's not fact.


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

stlarenas said:


> I am really surprised Jimmy Buffett and Rush aren't on that list.


Don't know about Rush, but the reason Buffett's not on the list is he just doesn't play enough show per year to get there. I would put his per show average against anyone and he would be near the top.


----------



## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Sorry about the 38 million thing.
> I just try and bring in news that you may not have otherwise heard.
> And even now AT&T does not deny it, they simply said AT&T does not divulge or confirm how many votes were cast in any state.


On the 38 million thing - I decided to do a little math to see if this is even feasible. There are about 1 million households in Arkansas (source). The Tuesday American Idol finale got an 8.6 rating (source). Let's just assume that the rating in Arkansas was double that because of a local guy on the show. That means households watching in Arkansas were approximately:

1 million X 17.2% (double the 8.6 national rating) = 172,000 households in Arkansas who watched AI.

38 million divided by 172,000 equals 221 calls per household that watched American Idol in Arkansas. That's pretty clearly absurd and didn't occur. Sure, some people call 500+ times, but to assume that on average over 200 calls came from every household that watched AI in Arkansas is ridiculous.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

FourFourSeven said:


> On the 38 million thing - I decided to do a little math to see if this is even feasible. There are about 1 million households in Arkansas (source). The Tuesday American Idol finale got an 8.6 rating (source). Let's just assume that the rating in Arkansas was double that because of a local guy on the show. That means households watching in Arkansas were approximately:
> 
> 1 million X 17.2% (double the 8.6 national rating) = 172,000 households in Arkansas who watched AI.
> 
> 38 million divided by 172,000 equals 221 calls per household that watched American Idol in Arkansas. That's pretty clearly absurd and didn't occur. Sure, some people call 500+ times, but to assume that on average over 200 calls came from every household that watched AI in Arkansas is ridiculous.


The claim, though, is that there were people who watched TOGETHER, in STADIUMS, and that they were using groups to text votes in the multiple 10s of thousands.

Not sure it's true, but that was the claim. No one was claiming that Sally Sue sat home and voted 50,000 times...they were claiming that through "power texting" you had 10,000 people in a stadium and they each cast thousands of votes.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

In theory, here's how it works, if, you know, you are an Anoop fan. 

1. Create 10 contacts with Anoops 57** number, title them  Anoop 1&#8243;,  Anoop 2&#8243;, etc.
2. Make a caller group and title it  Anoop or whatever you want.
3. Add those 10 contacts to the caller group.
4. Start new text message with the word VOTE, send to, select  Anoop caller group with the ten Anoop text numbers in it.
5. Send text (itll take a few seconds since its sending 10 instead of 1).
6. It should take you right back to your Sent box, select the text you just sent, hit forward, select the caller group again, and send!
7. Repeat!

Allows you to send 10x the number of texts.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

Sorry if this has been asked in one of the other AI threads this year, but does anyone else find it strange that they almost never give any interview time to Kris' wife? They've shown and spoken with his parents several times, but even when they showed footage of his visit home, not a peep from the Mrs. I actually joked with my wife after Kris had won and they showed Kris' wife hugging his mom, "I wonder if she's asking 'is it ok for me to speak again now?'"


----------



## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

3D said:


> Sorry if this has been asked in one of the other AI threads this year, but does anyone else find it strange that they almost never give any interview time to Kris' wife? They've shown and spoken with his parents several times, but even when they showed footage of his visit home, not a peep from the Mrs. I actually joked with my wife after Kris had won and they showed Kris' wife hugging his mom, "I wonder if she's asking 'is it ok for me to speak again now?'"


Probably becasue he's more "marketable" as a single guy???? Just guessing though.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I didn't even realize Kris was married. How young is he? He looks pretty young to already be married.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

timckelley said:


> I didn't even realize Kris was married. How young is he? He looks pretty young to already be married.


He's 23.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

And I was just telling my wife the other day, that I bet Kris is going to be a very eligible young bachelor. There goes that theory.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Lori said:


> Allows you to send 10x the number of texts.


That's exactly how we did it.

IMO the only fair way to make it a *singing contest as opposed to a voting contest *is to limit the votes per line.
But then they would lose their ability to boast about the numbers of votes.

I don't see that there is a perfect solution. But something has to give- next years Idols are going to need campaign managers to coordinate the organized mass voting in order to halfway stand a chance. There have always been organized fan base efforts, but the past two years it has been getting really extreme, first with Archie and now with Kris. Any time one person can easily get easily out over 10,000 votes something needs changed.


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

How about the one vote per sending phone # rule. Maybe their computers could group by unique sending phone numbers.


----------



## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

3D said:


> Sorry if this has been asked in one of the other AI threads this year, but does anyone else find it strange that they almost never give any interview time to Kris' wife? They've shown and spoken with his parents several times, but even when they showed footage of his visit home, not a peep from the Mrs. I actually joked with my wife after Kris had won and they showed Kris' wife hugging his mom, "I wonder if she's asking 'is it ok for me to speak again now?'"


She looks like she's real shy. Probably didn't want to do national interviews.


----------



## Derbyman (Jan 7, 2009)

You know when I get away from all the bull and think about the outcome of the show I realize that American Idol got just the finish they were hoping to get.

This has caused a great deal more publicity,gossip, and news articles than
if Adam had won. They essentially now have 2 American Idols. If Kris had lost this media circus would have never been this big.

So we now have Adam and Kris in the spotlight and they both will probably do very well. American Idol stays in the headlines even when the show if over. Adam can know do more things with his fame than if he had won. He doesn't have to sing and release that awful song and be tied down with a long term contract that may not suit him best.

Its a win win win!!!

For JFriday, who didn't appreciate the world famous JoesBlog and its relevance to the news.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...rican_idol__anatomy_of_kris_allens_upset.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdai...e-learned-from-season-eight-of-american-idol/

http://blogs.suntimes.com/tv/2009/05/ratings_war_american_idol_vs_d.html

For Kris's fans 
http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/200...todayslatest-Kris+Allen:+Give+the+man+his+due!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Derbyman said:


> This has caused a great deal more publicity,gossip, and news articles than
> if Adam had won. They essentially now have 2 American Idols. If Kris had lost this media circus would have never been this big.


I think they were both deserving winners, and yes, for Fox I think this result is a boon. Like you say, it's almost as if they got 2 winners.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> IMO the only fair way to make it a *singing contest as opposed to a voting contest *is to limit the votes per line.
> *But then they would lose their ability to boast about the numbers of votes.*


And there are plenty of people who simply don't understand how the multiple votes from one number work, so they are duped into thinking the show is more popular than it really is. In fact, the female anchor on the local Fox affiliate after the finale was over was going on about how "100 million people" had voted and how that was almost as many as had voted in the last presidential election, etc. The producers love the fact that they can brag about 10s of millions of votes. It makes the show seem popular and plays onto people's desires to be part of the cool crowd and jump on the bandwagon.


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Wow that was a great final, excellent TV, and music. I want to attend the next final live. I wonder what tickets start at???

I guess the voting masses get there next Tayor Hicks or Rubin Studdard.

This will fun to see the runner up make the winner Mr. Irrelevant over the next few years.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Speaking of the voting, is it only those with AT&T phones that can vote? That's the impression I get when watching, so I haven't tried it myself (I have Sprint). Maybe I've misunderstood that.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Speaking of the voting, is it only those with AT&T phones that can vote? That's the impression I get when watching, so I haven't tried it myself (I have Sprint). Maybe I've misunderstood that.


Anyone can call in a vote on the voice lines.

Seacrest makes it sound like only AT&T phones can text votes, but I'm not sure if that's true or if it's just a subtle way to mention their name every time someone sings.

He says "if you're with AT&T wireless, text the word 'vote' to 57xx." That doesn't necessarily mean that if you're not with AT&T, you can't text, but it creates that impression.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

bareyb said:


> I find it interesting that there isn't a single "new" band in the bunch and in fact, most have members that are as old as I am! Are there any NEW bands that can fill stadiums?


I think that's because we don't know new music very well -- we're a bunch of old stiffs.

Jonas Brothers are selling out easily, I imagine. Beyonce? That guy who punched his girlfriend?


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

realityboy said:


> Not everyone has internet access. Less have MP3s. It's a very small portion of people deciding the winner. It's a noble effort, but I couldn't see it actually working. Less people deciding would lead to less watching would lead to even less deciding...


...and people would argue (correctly IMHO) that it's discriminatory. Poor people would have a much harder time voting.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I think that's because we don't know new music very well -- we're a bunch of old stiffs.
> 
> Jonas Brothers are selling out easily, I imagine. Beyonce? That guy who punched his girlfriend?


Jonas Brothers and Beyonce are selling out arenas (where basketball and hockey are played). Not stadiums (where baseball and football are played).


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> ...and people would argue (correctly IMHO) that it's discriminatory. Poor people would have a much harder time voting.


You don't call it "voting." You call the thing a contest of who can sell the most music. Isn't that what it's supposed to predict - success in the music industry? That means selling things for money.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

You can only text in a vote from ATT. I tried with Sprint.

I can still do a normal voice vote.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I guess the voting masses get there next Tayor Hicks or Rubin Studdard.
> 
> This will fun to see the runner up make the winner Mr. Irrelevant over the next few years.


Now I really hope the opposite happens so I can quote your post in a year or two.

How ridiculous to state your speculation as if it's already fact.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

As much as I disliked Adam, I too have a feeling he will be a much bigger "star" and Kris will fade off into obscurity.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

aindik said:


> You don't call it "voting." You call the thing a contest of who can sell the most music. Isn't that what it's supposed to predict - success in the music industry? That means selling things for money.


...or at least mix the sales with the votes to determine the winner, like I suggested. 



Jesda said:


> You can only text in a vote from ATT. I tried with Sprint.
> 
> I can still do a normal voice vote.


Thanks, texting is what I meant, though I forgot to specify that. I don't understand why they only allow texting from AT&T phones then.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Well- there were rumors floating all around the web yesterday and even a filmed semi confirmation from Adam himself, but I didn't bring it over here because it was, well- a rumor.
But it seems substantiated by Rolling Stone magazine- Queen is indeed interested in Adam.

To quote Brian May:
_"(drummer Roger Taylor) and I are definitely hoping to have a meaningful conversation with him at some point. It's not like we, as Queen, would rush into coalescing with another singer just like that. It isn't that easy. But I'd certainly like to work with Adam. That is one amazing instrument he has there." _

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/10082

While I don't feel as if he is going to go off and become part of Queen I do think that a few carefully put together "Queen featuring Adam Lambert" appearances could be good for his career and lend legitimacy to the American Idol stigma that exists in rock circles.

_ETA: Original Rolling Stone article_


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> Well- there were rumors floating all around the web yesterday and even a filmed semi confirmation from Adam himself, but I didn't bring it over here because it was, well- a rumor.


I heard even more than that, but hadn't brought it here for the same reason.

Disclaimer: The following is just something I read on another forum, and I have nothing whatsoever to back it up:



> the American Idol winner is bound to a recording and touring contract with A.I. for one year. The loser is only bound to one group tour, and can make his own deals for everything else. In many ways it's better to lose than to win. Due to his pending partnership with Queen, Adam informed A.I. that he would decline the winners title if he won it. So it's pretty obvious that to save face A.I. fixed the win for Kris. Sort of a win-win, wink-wink. Adam didn't look all that "crushed" when he lost, did he. And for good reason.


Now I really don't believe this, but it makes for good forum fun.


----------



## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

scooterboy said:


> I heard even more than that, but hadn't brought it here for the same reason.
> 
> Disclaimer: The following is just something I read on another forum, and I have nothing whatsoever to back it up:
> 
> Now I really don't believe this, but it makes for good forum fun.


 How can you decline a contract you've already signed? They sign those guys when they hit the top 10 or so, don't they? I thought I read that they're locked into their respective contracts far earlier than the final show.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

ahartman said:


> How can you decline a contract you've already signed? They sign those guys when they hit the top 10 or so, don't they? I thought I read that they're locked into their respective contracts far earlier than the final show.


Yes, but the winner is obligated to 19M for five years and all the rest only for one.

And as far as I know they obligate the top 24/36 (depending on how the season is set up). If you remember Josiah Lemming from last year? Lived in a car, sick mom, stunning vocals and keyboards and cried a lot? He just finished a protracted court battle to even be allowed to release records and he was in no way a finalist.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scooterboy said:


> I heard even more than that, but hadn't brought it here for the same reason.
> 
> Disclaimer: The following is just something I read on another forum, and I have nothing whatsoever to back it up:
> 
> Now I really don't believe this, but it makes for good forum fun.


Rarely has a  been more appropriate (not for you, but for the guy who wrote it in the first place). Sounds like fanboy-wishful thinking. I sincerely doubt he would have turned it down even if he could (which I'm pretty sure he can't).


----------



## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Rarely has a  been more appropriate (not for you, but for the guy who wrote it in the first place). Sounds like fanboy-wishful thinking. I sincerely doubt he would have turned it down even if he could (which I'm pretty sure he can't).


exactly.

And if he did, I would hope it would be determent to his "career".


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

scooterboy said:


> I heard even more than that, but hadn't brought it here for the same reason.
> 
> Disclaimer: The following is just something I read on another forum, and I have nothing whatsoever to back it up:
> 
> Now I really don't believe this, but it makes for good forum fun.


That's pretty juicy but I don't think it's true either. He sounds like a disgruntled fan. If it IS true, you can bet that story will get lots of attention. Nobody has ever "turned down the crown" before. I'm kind of in the camp with the others in thinking he probably wouldn't be able to get out of his contract even if he wanted to.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Rarely has a  been more appropriate (not for you, but for the guy who wrote it in the first place).


Yeah, that's why I first hesitated to post it, and then included the disclaimer when I did.


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

danterner said:


> My daughter, age 9, upon seeing KISS for the first time:
> 
> "What?? They need haircuts, BAD! Their shoes are like Bratz-doll shoes! And they should really grow up already..."


My cubemate, from Pakistan, age 30, upon seeing KISS for the first time:

"Who is that man with the tongue?"


----------



## DianaMo (Oct 22, 2003)

You know how they sell scorecards at baseball games?

I found this book which would help you keep track of American Idol.

Has anyone else seen these?


----------



## DianaMo (Oct 22, 2003)

Did anyone else think that Rod Stewart now looks more and more like Jon Pertwee, the third actor to play Doctor Who?

*The Third Doctor Jon Pertwee 1970-1974*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/index_third.shtml
*
Rod Stewart on 'American Idol': Do ya think I'm elderly ...*
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/celebrities/index.ssf/2009/05/rod_stewart_on_american_idol_d.html



JLucPicard said:


> WOW!
> 
> I just got done watching and I had pretty much planned to watch and almost wear out my FF button. Turns out I really didn't use it much at all, except for commercials.
> 
> ...


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> Well- there were rumors floating all around the web yesterday and even a filmed semi confirmation from Adam himself, but I didn't bring it over here because it was, well- a rumor.
> But it seems substantiated by Rolling Stone magazine- Queen is indeed interested in Adam.
> 
> To quote Brian May:
> ...


Picked up on Yahoo too.....

http://tv.yahoo.com/contributor/2461071/news/urn:newsml:tv.tvguide.com:20090525:1006316__ER:1


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Yes, Adam confirmed it again on last nights Larry King.
He specifically said they did not ask him to come and be their lead singer, but did want to get together and do some shows.

I think it will be 2010 before we see anything, but I am looking forward to it a lot.
Maybe they're planning a tour for 2011- 20 years since Freddie died.
Who knows.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I would go. Oh wait, I smeeked myself.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> Well- there were rumors floating all around the web yesterday and even a filmed semi confirmation from Adam himself, but I didn't bring it over here because it was, well- a rumor.
> But it seems substantiated by Rolling Stone magazine- Queen is indeed interested in Adam.
> 
> To quote Brian May:
> ...


Wow. Queen is interested in doing some projects and maybe touring with Adam Lambert. Imagine that.


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Adam will make plenty of money over the next couple years.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> You mean the "totally made up" 38 million Arkansas voters ???





JohnB1000 said:


> It's not that interesting. Earlier there were references to an article that claimed 38million votes for Kris came from Arkansas. By the time most of us read the article it no longer said that because it wasn't true
> 
> More interestingly I hope you read the follow ups on your new bands don't sell out stadiums thoughts, that one got me thinking a bit





Derbyman said:


> http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090521-ENTERTAIN-90521001
> 
> http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/...-cast-38-million-american-idol-votes-9015.php
> 
> ...


Perhaps it is not over yet......

While working out this morning I was watching the various national news shows and one, can't remember which, and they ran a story "Idol Voting Fixed?".

Essentially, what they were saying is that AT&T sponsored an event in Arkansas before the final performance show and taught people how to power text. I guess there is a way to send in 10 text votes with one push of the button. This could sure make it easier to have those who are voting get their max votes out real quick.

Kind of interesting to go back to the following quote now from the realitytvworld article posted above:



> The figure seemed even more implausible given Arkansas only has a population of 2.86 million, which would have meant its residents had somehow managed to cast an average of more than 13 votes for every man, woman and child living in the state.


.

Plausible deniability......"hey, Arkansas only has 2.86 million people. No way there can be that many votes. But...ooops, we forget to mention that we were showing people how to vote super fast many times over".

In the news story I mentioned, they said that AT&T said something along the line of "we sponsored an event, and we had some demo phones to show, and we also showed people how to text that did not know.".

I think this is being made out to be more than it is, but I still think there is _something_ to it.........


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Would we be seeing these grand conspiracy theories is Adam had won?


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

You always see them when its close whether it be a presidential election, a senate election, or American Idol. People look for the manipulation to sway the results.
There probably was some here and there and who knows it may actually have been enough to alter the outcome but was all the manipulation orchestrated through a single strategy or a bunch of independent energies.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Langree said:


> Would we be seeing these grand conspiracy theories is Adam had won?


I would be just as concerned, yes, if Adam had won. I think that Idol needs to step up and say how many votes were thrown out for "block voting". All they will say is that it was fair. Well, if people in Arkansas were using free phones from AT&T to text votes in the thousands--or tens of thousands--then that wasn't fair. And it won't be fair next year when more people do it because they got away with it this year.

AT&T needs to put a reasonable cap on votes from a single phone number. 100, 1000...something. They need to throw out results that are over that.

Kris' margin might have been enough that the blocks were superfluous. ANd I'm happy that he won, because this way Adam gets to have more fun. But they need to revisit this process with the same critical eye that they did after the season two fiasco.


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

I may be wrong, but I don't think AT&T actually sponsored the events in question. According to the article linked below, AT&T employees went to a couple watch parties and provided about 20 demo phones for people to use to text votes for Kris. They only brought two phones that were capable of "power-texting". It's not like they invented this technique all on their own. I saw people mentioning being able to vote 10 texts at a time using Blackberries several weeks ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30968098/

It sounds like the vote margin was wide enough that it would have made no difference anyway.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

It really should be one vote per number, but they would never do it 'cause Seacrest wouldn't be able to say how many x-millions...


----------



## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Lori said:


> the season two fiasco.


I didn't watch season two. What sort of fiasco?


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Lori said:


> I would be just as concerned, yes, if Adam had won. I think that Idol needs to step up and say how many votes were thrown out for "block voting". All they will say is that it was fair. Well, if people in Arkansas were using free phones from AT&T to text votes in the thousands--or tens of thousands--then that wasn't fair. And it won't be fair next year when more people do it because they got away with it this year.


Well... if they had ~100,000,000 votes, the results would have to be extremely close (percentage-wise) for tens of thousands to make an actual difference.


Lori said:


> AT&T needs to put a reasonable cap on votes from a single phone number. 100, 1000...something. They need to throw out results that are over that.


Agreed... 5 per phone was what I was thinking of.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

timckelley said:


> I didn't watch season two. What sort of fiasco?


I'd like to know too, I didn't watch the show back then. What happened?


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

timckelley said:


> I didn't watch season two. What sort of fiasco?






> *Click picture for full article*
> After weeks of drama, including two people being disqualified in the middle of the competition, the second season of "American Idol" ended with even more drama. Ryan Seacrest and/or the producers might have massively screwed up by announcing different vote totals during the live finale, but ultimately, Ruben Studdard won "American Idol 2," beating the runner-up by about 130,000 votes.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

bareyb said:


>


It was 130,000 out of over 26,000,000, which is about half a percent. The issue was that the lines were so saturated that NO ONE could get through. Various sources reported that up to 6 times as many votes didn't get through as did. The lines basically rang at capacity all night, resulting in a statistical tie. That Ruben won was basically an accident. Nigel Lithgoe basically confirmed this a couple years ago when he said that Clay had been number one in the voting EVERY WEEK until the final.

They completely revamped the phone/voting going into season 3.

They need to revamp it again.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

timckelley said:


> I didn't watch season two. What sort of fiasco?


More than you ever wanted to know about the season 2 kerfluffle.

The Reuben/Clay details begin at:
*Now to my original article in 2003 asking...
Is this show another $64,000 Question hoax?*

and continue seemingly though infinity.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

I don't think these text-voting issues amount to anything. Don't Adam's fans know how to send multiple text messages? I'll bet they do.

I see a lot more similarities to season 7, when David Cook won, than I do to season 2. All season long, Archie was the chosen one: he got to perform last seemingly every week, he got better lighting and more sophisticated camera work for his performances than anyone else did. The judges raved about him, even when he grew stale and seemed to be doing the same thing every week. After the final-two competition show, the judges were basically congratulating Archie for winning and totally dismissed Cook. This was so blatant that Simon apologized to Cook the next day on the finale before the results were given (though I'm sure Simon realized that Cook was about to win or he wouldn't have bothered). 

Sound familiar? This is essentially the same thing that has happened this season with Adam and Kris. I see it as 1) both guys were talented and had a lot of fans, and 2) there is a big voter backlash against the judges. People resent being told who should win and who they should vote for (this season the judges - even Simon - came right out and told people to vote for Adam) and just generally being manipulated. They then vote against the pre-ordained winner. I promise you this had much more of an effect on the results than anything else.

PS - I would add that the results of the past couple of seasons are the best evidence to me that the voting results are not fixed.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Who is Archie?


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> Who is Archie?


Sorry - I was too lazy to type out David Archuleta. He's the kid who was supposed to win season 7.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Lori said:


> It was 130,000 out of over 26,000,000, which is about half a percent. The issue was that the lines were so saturated that NO ONE could get through. Various sources reported that up to 6 times as many votes didn't get through as did. The lines basically rang at capacity all night, resulting in a statistical tie. That Ruben won was basically an accident. Nigel Lithgoe basically confirmed this a couple years ago when he said that Clay had been number one in the voting EVERY WEEK until the final.
> 
> They completely revamped the phone/voting going into season 3.
> 
> They need to revamp it again.


So if 6X more people didn't get to vote than did and you add that to the 26 million votes cast you get 182 million votes. Almost double the record of this year which includes text votes. Sorry I call BS. Just because someone says it, that doesn't mean it's true.


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

tivoboyjr said:


> I don't think these text-voting issues amount to anything. Don't Adam's fans know how to send multiple text messages? I'll bet they do.
> 
> I see a lot more similarities to season 7, when David Cook won, than I do to season 2. All season long, Archie was the chosen one: he got to perform last seemingly every week, he got better lighting and more sophisticated camera work for his performances than anyone else did. The judges raved about him, even when he grew stale and seemed to be doing the same thing every week. After the final-two competition show, the judges were basically congratulating Archie for winning and totally dismissed Cook. This was so blatant that Simon apologized to Cook the next day on the finale before the results were given (though I'm sure Simon realized that Cook was about to win or he wouldn't have bothered).
> 
> ...


This. Exactly.


----------



## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

For me, the fiasco starts every week when Seacrest says "The lines will be open for _at least_ two hours" (emphasis mine). That sounds like they could keep the lines open until they had the result they wanted.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> Well... if they had ~100,000,000 votes, the results would have to be extremely close (percentage-wise) for tens of thousands to make an actual difference.


Exactly. Even a 51%-49% margin is a difference of two million votes. If some of the articles are to be believed, it wasn't that close.


ahartman said:


> For me, the fiasco starts every week when Seacrest says "The lines will be open for _at least_ two hours" (emphasis mine). That sounds like they could keep the lines open until they had the result they wanted.


Statistics will tell you that a larger sample of votes will not yield a statistically different result. The only way your theory works is if they leave the lines open longer than two hours in a time zone that includes the home state of one contestant, but then don't leave the lines open that same amount of time in a time zone where another contestant lives. But even then, the percentage of the total votes that likely come from a contestants home town/state is likely to be very negligible.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

That was what I used think about Jasmine Trias, who was a contestant in, I think it was Season 3. I used to wonder how she would do so well. She was cute, but not spectacularly so, and her singing was mediocre. 

My answer was that she was from Hawaii. Which is in its own time zone and therefore its own two hour voting window. So, if you take a fraction where the denominator is calls made where people tried to vote for you and the numerator is calls that got through voting for you, her fraction would be much bigger than the other contestants who were from the mainland.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

aindik said:


> That was what I used think about Jasmine Trias, who was a contestant in, I think it was Season 3. I used to wonder how she would do so well. She was cute, but not spectacularly so, and her singing was mediocre.
> 
> My answer was that she was from Hawaii. Which is in its own time zone and therefore its own two hour voting window. So, if you take a fraction where the denominator is calls made where people tried to vote for you and the numerator is calls that got through voting for you, her fraction would be much bigger than the other contestants who were from the mainland.


Yea for those potential 1.3 million voters, but they are all trying to call into the same number so even though they'll have a higher percentage of votes going to there girl they are stumbling over each other to do it. 1.3 million voters aren't going to overtake 304 million in a 2 hour period.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

*FWIW* none of the fans I read on several fansites are upset about numbers of votes.
The issue causing problems is that a show sponsor supported one contestant and not the other, and that voters with cell phone providers other than AT&T cannot text vote at all.
*These issues are just symptoms* of a voting system that seems to grow more and more unjust every year. Simple land line "one at a time" voting with 95% busy signals feels inconsequential next to power texters able to fire off tens of thousand of votes with no busy signals, so fewer and fewer people are able to vote more and more. 
If it wasn't for that I think even the most rabid fans would let it go.

Personally I wish it would blow over all ready- the guys are fine with it.
Can't Britney have another meltdown or something to feed a new news cycle?


----------

