# PlayStation3 & TiVo (merged thread)



## DavidA_UK (Feb 10, 2004)

Sony will be announcing the PVR addon for their PlayStation3 next month. There are some rumours floating around that it could use TiVo.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/news/?id=17001


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If it does I bet it will only be for American PS3 units.

In the UK as usual we will get nothing 

Automan.


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

It'll probably be for remote playback and control, as the PS3 streams music and video (in the right formats) from my PC running Azureus or Media Player. That's what I have the XBMC for though.


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## DavidA_UK (Feb 10, 2004)

Automan said:


> If it does I bet it will only be for American PS3 units.
> 
> In the UK as usual we will get nothing
> 
> Automan.


While I wouldn't get your hopes up, I think it's very unlikely that they'd have a different PVR system for PAL. The PS3 is video standard agnostic, after all.


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## cleudo (Apr 7, 2002)

There're a few news reports out that the PS3 is to get a freeview tuner (is there an expansion bay for one to go into?) - so we could very well have a new uk tivo on our hands...

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertai...3-to-get-freeview-tv-tuner?articleid=48752492


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Oh, and how many UK PS3 owners do you think will be happy to pay £10/month for guide data when their Toppy and Humax-owning friends get it all for free?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Funny you mention humax, as they are another one with a tivo licence that didn't bother in the UK (www.humaxusa.com)


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## cleudo (Apr 7, 2002)

mrtickle said:


> Oh, and how many UK PS3 owners do you think will be happy to pay £10/month for guide data when their Toppy and Humax-owning friends get it all for free?


I think Sony have some sort of licence arrangement. I don't think TiVo would be running the show somehow.

(&obviously, no, £10 a month for guide data is no longer a serious business model)


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

cleudo said:


> £10 a month for guide data is no longer a serious business model)


How so?

In the US, I believe they still charge $20 for guide data.

Admittedly their software and hardware moves on...


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

I've no real desire for a PS3 - the Wii is more fun and I don't feel like shelling out for a HD player until the format war is decided.

But the PS3 does run Linux....
And *if* it got (dual) Freeview Tuners - there are enough spare USB sockets
And *if* it got TiVo (or MythTV) - it's got more than enough horsepower
And *if* it recorded the bitstream directly - there's a big ol' HDD in there
And *if* the PS3 didn't require a new mortgage to buy....

I could see a brand new addition to the media shelf... And I suspect so could a lot of people.

I'm guessing that you could build a Myth Box on there now - I've not looked - but proper TiVo service.... I'd like that!


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## andyjenkins (Jul 29, 2001)

terryeden said:


> I've no real desire for a PS3 - the Wii is more fun and I don't feel like shelling out for a HD player until the format war is decided.


I think it has ... even theives are only stealing BD's now.



> But the PS3 does run Linux....


Yes it does.


> And *if* it got (dual) Freeview Tuners - there are enough spare USB sockets


Ah, but they're all on the front- which means its going to be real fugly to plug anything into it.


> And *if* it got TiVo (or MythTV) - it's got more than enough horsepower


Easily


> And *if* it recorded the bitstream directly - there's a big ol' HDD in there


Nah .. only 60GB - not that big.


> And *if* the PS3 didn't require a new mortgage to buy....


Horses for course on that one. Some think its ridiculously over priced, some think its good value considering the functionality. Some even think its comparable value to that of the XBOS 360. Personally, its not expensive. If a new HD capable TiVo hit the market in the UK - people would falling over themselves to buy one at £400 notes I expect. After all, many of us did for our aged Series 1 (where's they £399 on launch? Or was it £299???)


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## Nero2 (Aug 22, 2005)

Scant details but this certainly looks interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/technology/6958233.stm

In summary Sony are launching a TV tuner plug in for the PS3 that allows it to act as a PVR. It also has the added capability of wirelessly streaming the programmes over to your PSP. Now if they added decent EPG data, could this be the long overdue Tivo rival?

(Not sure if I should have posted this in the chit-chat forum instead, an apology if this is in the wrong place.)


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

As discussed at
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361153&highlight=playstation

I guess they didn't go with TiVo.

Mind you, looking at http://www.vgchartz.com/ shows that the PS3 is selling about as well as TiVo did in the UK....


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## Nero2 (Aug 22, 2005)

terryeden said:


> As discussed at


Oops sorry, didn't notice that one.


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

Looks like an interesting one, if they can make it reliable on season recordings, seems only TiVo and MCE have managed it so far, Sky+ and other FreeView PVRs seem to struggle.

I know the Freeview Playback spec or whatever it's called is supposed to give this, but I'll believe it when I see it 

I'd rather be able to use my PS3 as an extender for my MCE, but I can't see that happening somehow


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

The Sky+ version is fairly reliable, but it's not intelligent. Set it for the 10pm Friday showing a series and it will never, ever, record the Sunday 2pm repeat, even is a clash prevents the Friday recording.

This is bad, but on the other had you don't get a hard disk full of duplicates as you often get with TiVo or MCE if the guide data isn't up to scratch. Elements of swings and roundabouts.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

alextegg said:


> I'd rather be able to use my PS3 as an extender for my MCE, but I can't see that happening somehow


Given that Microsoft make a loss on every Xbox 360 that is just used as an MCE extender, I can't see that Sony would follow that route. They need to recoup every penny that they can get on games sales.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Hopefully Sony won't have a choice; I believe that people have Linux running on a PS3 now.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertai...ion-3-gets-digital-tv-pvr?articleid=589920112


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

andyjenkins said:


> If a new HD capable TiVo hit the market in the UK - people would falling over themselves to buy one at £400 notes I expect.


I'm not convinced that would happen unless it had multiple tuners. Once you are used to that (myself, via Windows MCE), I can't see that anybody would ever go back to a single tuner. So long as a PVR has a proper long-term Season Pass facility, I find the advantages of multiple tuners far outweigh any differences in UI.


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

iankb said:


> Given that Microsoft make a loss on every Xbox 360 that is just used as an MCE extender, I can't see that Sony would follow that route. They need to recoup every penny that they can get on games sales.


Well, obviously I don't mean just as an extender, but for that on top !


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I own three 360s just as extenders!


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Hopefully Sony won't have a choice; I believe that people have Linux running on a PS3 now.


Yes, I have played with Linux on my PS3, but have no real use for it beyond that. I think to use the Linux platform PS3 as a PVR would fall into the v. hard basket...


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> I own three 360s just as extenders!


Sounds like you need to find some like minded friends for some excellent games evenings


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I own one game, and that only gets played by the babysitter!


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

Best not suggest that the babysitter has gaming parties, then


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> The Sky+ version is fairly reliable, but it's not intelligent. Set it for the 10pm Friday showing a series and it will never, ever, record the Sunday 2pm repeat, even is a clash prevents the Friday recording.


Indeed. It's an extremely poor design given that TiVo was already filtering duplicates and handling conflicts much more intelligently, and the've had so long to copy it.



> This is bad,


I'd say "unforgivably dumb and a missed opportunity". Sky's proposed solution of just "throwing more tuners at it" only goes some way to working around the problem. I believe that the I'm still impressed with the way TiVo works around clashes with a single tuner; the twin-tuner TiVos must be really great at it!

The new Freeview Playback spec (http://www.dtg.org.uk/publications/books/dtvr_spec.pdf]) includes this nice little nugget:


> 2.11. Use of Alternate Instance Information
> When scheduled recordings overlap, the recorder shall use the alternate instance
> information, when provided, to record one or more of the programmes at their
> alternate times thereby minimising the conflict, subject to any device limitations
> (e.g. available space).


So then, if the Freeview EPG contains required Alternate Instance Information, Freeview PVRs will be able to intelligently resolve clashes. Expect Sky+ to suddenly catch up after that!



TCM2007 said:


> but on the other had you don't get a hard disk full of duplicates as you often get with TiVo or MCE if the guide data isn't up to scratch.


Well yes - "*if* the guide data isn't up to scratch". For the majority of the main channels, it is up to scratch and so is relatively rare. When it does happen, if you couldn't predict it from TiVo's handy easy-to-understand ToDo list, deleting the extra recordings isn't anything like as annoying as missing the programme which would happen on the Sky+ system!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> So then, if the Freeview EPG contains required Alternate Instance Information, Freeview PVRs will be able to intelligently resolve clashes. Expect Sky+ to suddenly catch up after that!


My worry is that it sounds like it's set server side, instead of TiVo/MCE's client side approach.



> Well yes - "*if* the guide data isn't up to scratch". For the majority of the main channels, it is up to scratch and so is relatively rare. When it does happen, if you couldn't predict it from TiVo's handy easy-to-understand ToDo list, deleting the extra recordings isn't anything like as annoying as missing the programme which would happen on the Sky+ system!


I don't find it rare; it's pretty much the default for shows on BBC3, BBC4 and More4.  MCE is as bad as TiVo so I think it's poor source data.)

Because most of my SD programming is done on MCE, I very rarely hit a clash on the Sky box.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Well - it is called PlayTV, is an external USB dual-tuner device, and uses the Freeview EPG. It is due to launch early next year in the UK, France, Germany and Spain (i.e. the main DVB-T territories) followed by Scandinavia (Sweden has HD via DVB-T for SVT HD at 720p in H264)

The EPG navigation in the demo looks very fast indeed - and if it supports the Freeview Playback metadata it could be a very nice solution indeed.

Other useful features include remote record setting from a PSP (via Internet Wifi) AND fast transcoding from PS3 recordings to a format that the PSP will play, to allow downloading to the PSP for watching shows on the move.


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## Anndra (Oct 12, 2004)

Automan said:


> If it does I bet it will only be for American PS3 units.
> 
> In the UK as usual we will get nothing


Wow. Looks to be the opposite. Whoda thunk?


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

Sneals2000 said:


> Well - it is called PlayTV, is an external USB dual-tuner device, and uses the Freeview EPG. It is due to launch early next year in the UK, France, Germany and Spain (i.e. the main DVB-T territories) followed by Scandinavia (Sweden has HD via DVB-T for SVT HD at 720p in H264)
> 
> The EPG navigation in the demo looks very fast indeed - and if it supports the Freeview Playback metadata it could be a very nice solution indeed.
> 
> Other useful features include remote record setting from a PSP (via Internet Wifi) AND fast transcoding from PS3 recordings to a format that the PSP will play, to allow downloading to the PSP for watching shows on the move.


It certainly looks interesting and since I already have a PS3 , a PSP and a wireless network I reckon I will be trying it out next year (well - as soon as I can get one cheap in the Staff Shop anyway).

I already transfer stuff from TiVo to my PSP and iPod for train entertainment but it is a bit of a clunky solution just to catch up on all things Ambridge.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Well, not only is the software not based on TiVo, some salt has been added to the wound if this report is correct;
http://www.betanews.com/article/Sony_to_Bring_TV_Programming_to_PS3_PSP/1187884879

The interesting snippet being;


> The user interface and application will be developed mostly by Sky


Ian


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Anndra said:


> Wow. Looks to be the opposite. Whoda thunk?


Yep - the US market for FTA OTA Digital TV is significantly smaller, because Cable is so much more popular. Cablecard is a pretty tricky technology to support compared to DVB-T OTA (aka Freeview and other European DTT services - like TNT in France and Boxer in Sweden) - and Sony have plenty of experience with DVB-T in Europe with their pretty good STBs and DVD Recorders with integrated Freeview.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

verses said:


> Well, not only is the software not based on TiVo, some salt has been added to the wound if this report is correct;
> http://www.betanews.com/article/Sony_to_Bring_TV_Programming_to_PS3_PSP/1187884879
> 
> The interesting snippet being;
> ...


Isn't this talking about the PSP Sky/Sony downloadable content service (which I'm guessing might be related to the PC version of Sky Anytime?) - which is NOT the same as the PS3 PVR service (though the latter also allows conversion and download of material on the PS3 to the PSP).

Having seen the PlayTV service demo - it looks nothing like anything Sky offer, and has no Sky branding. It bears much more of a resemblance to Front Row/Back Row on the Mac/Apple TV. (Particularly the icons scrolling around a circular 3D path at an angle)


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

iankb said:


> Given that Microsoft make a loss on every Xbox 360 that is just used as an MCE extender, I can't see that Sony would follow that route. They need to recoup every penny that they can get on games sales.


I wonder if this is still the case (realise the post is from a while ago) for the 360. How much cheaper have the components got since the 360 was launched? I imagine quite a few things have come down in price quite a lot.

AIUI the PS3 is still sold at a loss - but it will be interesting to see how quickly the loss-leading turns into profit on pure console-based sales.

As a 360 and PS3 owner - the bulk of the software played on both currently are HD movies - with relatively few games purchased for either platform - though the PS3 is also used as a DVD player and for playing PS2 titles already purchased. (It also replays BBC HD recordings very nicely from DVD Rom)


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Sneals2000 said:


> I wonder if this is still the case (realise the post is from a while ago) for the 360. How much cheaper have the components got since the 360 was launched? I imagine quite a few things have come down in price quite a lot.


Maybe less of a loss, but I doubt that they're making a profit yet. The console market seems to rely on beating the competition on initial hardware price, because then you're tied into their overpriced software. However, the high price of the PS3 has probably allowed Microsoft to avoid cutting the price of the Xbox as much as they could have.

The stupid thing is that they could sell a signifcantly cut-down (and quieter) version of the Xbox 360 for use as an extender, and actually make a profit on it. However, I suppose the current market for dedicated extenders is a bit too small.


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