# Tivo Vibrating Throbbing Sound - Possible Causes?



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

In the last few days my Tivo has started to make a strange vibrating/throbbing sound.

Initially this could only be heard at about 2am when you could virtually here a pin drop here in the countryside but now I can hear it at 8.50am when there is a fair bit more background noise going on.

I can't really describe the noise properly but it sort of goes round in a circular loop cycle and is a sort of vibration of some kind that builds up to a peak before starting again. Each cycle of noise takes may be four or 5 seconds.

Both mfscheck and smartctl -a /dev/hda and smartctl -a /dev/hdb do not report any problems so could this be a problem with the fan bearings or the fan being clogged with dust, rather than with a hard drive being about to fail? Or does it sound like an imminent hard drive problem? smartctl shows Drive A running at 38C compared to 33C for Drive B but then Drive A is nearer to the power supply, isn't it, so perhaps to be expected.

Any thoughts from blindlemon or anyone else on this would be appreciated.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Have you tried opening the case to check for dust and/or loose drive fixings? 

Sometimes a loose drive mount can vibrate a bit, and as you have two drives, if they're both vibrating at marginally different frequencies then the noise can rise and fall due to interference effects.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Have you tried opening the case to check for dust and/or loose drive fixings?
> 
> Sometimes a loose drive mount can vibrate a bit, and as you have two drives, if they're both vibrating at marginally different frequencies then the noise can rise and fall due to interference effects.


Have got the case open now and have taken out the fan and got rid of the dust. A bit of dust debris there but nothing very dramatic.

Am also changing the power supply as I had a spare one (the one in the Tivo is the original) and even though none of the capacitors on the current one look bulging in any way. All went well with twisting the lugs and sliding the power supply upwards etc. However have been efeated by the pesky white plastic clip that secures the power leads to the Tivo base. Can't see how to open it short of cutting it.

Will try screwing down hard drives further on mountings, although I doubt they are loose.

Any suggestions on the white plastic clip release?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I see your power supply replacement instructions don't mention the pesky white clip:-



> *Replacing the PSU is a 5-10 minute job*, with no soldering required.
> 
> * Unplug the TiVo from the mains and leave for 20 mins for the capacitors in the PSU to discharge
> * Open the TiVo case with a torx T10 screwdriver
> ...


Already up to an hour trying to replace it if you include disconnecting the Tivo and getting its case open.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Sorry - I assume most people will be happy to cut the white cable-tie 

And no, the 5-10 minutes doesn't include taking the TiVo out of your AV cupboard or getting the lid off, as most people will change the PSU in addition to fitting a new drive, for which they will have already done those things.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Sorry - I assume most people will be happy to cut the white cable-tie .


Why can't the cable tie be released? It seems to have a release toggle but try as I might I can't get it to loosen off or slip out. Surely if I cut it the new cable won't be secured by anything? Or do you also assume people have a new box of cable ties to hand. 

I think your instructions should cover the cable tie issue as its a key item that stands in the way of removal of the old power supply.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

If you don't want to cut the cable tie, you could always cut the wires on the old PSU.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I think your instructions should cover the cable tie issue as its a key item that stands in the way of removal of the old power supply.


Funny - you're the only person who has ever mentioned it! 

However, always keen to please I have now amended the instructions. So *just cut the bloody cable tie and be done with it*!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Funny - you're the only person who has ever mentioned it!
> 
> However, always keen to please I have just amended the instructions. So *cut the bloody cable tie and be done with it*


Naturally one expects "instructions" to cover all the requisite steps required in carrying out the job. 

My replacement power supply came with a new cable bundle with the exception of the power lead for the fan. Would you be inclined to fit the new cable bundle in place of the original cable bundle? Well too late now anyway as I've now cut open the cable tie on the old main lead bundle and removed the lead for the fan.

Perhaps another part of your omitted instructions was having a nice jar of cable ties to hand and fitting those to replace the ones you had cut off? You need to remember that many of us are not PC techies and what you may deem as being "these obvious steps" are not obvious to us. Also if we are told we need a packet of cable ties before starting the job we could arrange to have them to hand at the relevant time.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> If you don't want to cut the cable tie, you could always cut the wires on the old PSU.


Very helpful Colin.  :down:

I just wondered why cable ties don't also seem to untie as well?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Perhaps another part of your omitted instructions was having a nice jar of cable ties to hand and fitting those to replace the ones you had cut off?


Ahh yes, and making a cup of coffee beforehand as well I guess - sorry !


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Very helpful Colin.  :down:
> 
> I just wondered why cable ties don't also seem to untie as well?


Could it possibly be because they arent intended to be removed.

Cable ties should be cut off flush with the ratchet end once tightened as the tail sticking out can be a safety hazard poking people in the eyes etc. Once the tail is cut off then reusing it becomes very dificult as even if you did manage to release the ratchet and remove it, you probably wouldnt be able to get it done up again unless it was round a smaller bunch of cables.

If you want to have the ability to remove them then you should use "Re-useable Cable ties" although even those can be difficult to remove if overtightened.

Cut and replace is the best method


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Ahh yes, and making a cup of coffee beforehand as well I guess - sorry !


No I don't expect the cup of tea or coffee to be in the instruction. I only expect the instructions to cover all the actul steps that have to be undertaken to complete a particular task.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Do I actually need more cable ties at all in practice or can I get away without them if I 'm not worried about the internal aesthetics of the Tivo?

I always knew replacing the power supply was going to be a lot more bother than blindlemon's description implied.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

katman said:


> Cable ties should be cut off flush with the ratchet end once tightened as the tail sticking out can be a safety hazard poking people in the eyes etc. Once the tail is cut off then reusing it becomes very dificult as even if you did manage to release the ratchet and remove it, you probably wouldnt be able to get it done up again unless it was round a smaller bunch of cable


Thomson seem to have been wholly unaware that cutting off the tails of the cable ties is a good idea, hence why I thought I should be able to undo them, even though I found I couldn't.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Do I actually need more cable ties at all in practice or can I get away without them if I 'm not worried about the internal aesthetics of the Tivo?
> 
> I always knew replacing the power supply was going to be a lot more bother than blindlemon's description implied.


Of course you can get away without cable ties - they serve no practical purpose, especially if the TiVo isn't going to be moved.

As I said before, you are the only person who has ever even asked about the cable ties, so to say that my instructions were inadequate because they didn't include them is a bit disingenuous IMHO. There's a fine line between giving full instructions and patronising people by stating the obvious. Your "problem" with my PSU replacement instructions (which, BTW, were written for *my customers*, not for people who purchased a PSU elsewhere ) is a bit like complaining that the instructions for setting up a TiVo don't include the step "open the big cardboard box and take the TiVo out of it". (NB. I'm sure you'll take issue with the analogy too, but it's the best I can think of for now.)

Most people would just cut the cable tie and get on with the job :up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Most people would just cut the cable tie and get on with the job :up:


The cable tie in question was actually fastened to the Tivo base and seemed to fulfil a pretty useful function so my inclination was to keep it if I could do.

I know that you no doubt probably have a box of a thousand cable ties there and have fitted hundreds of them but those of us who do not open the innards of a PC daily for a living tend to find we do not have such materials to hand. But perhaps you do include replacement cable ties for your own power supply clients and this no doubt explains the price differential compared to another supplier of these power supplies. 

I would compare the omission of this item from your instructions rather more with those for baking a cake not saying that the eggs had to be beaten until they were completely yellow with no white bits left before adding them to the rest of the mixture.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I always knew replacing the power supply was going to be a lot more bother than blindlemon's description implied.


Interesting how you're the only person who's very vocal about the prices that Blindlemon charges for his services and also the only person who seems to feel the need to complain about the information he gives out for free.

Ian


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> But perhaps you do include replacement cable ties for your own power supply clients


If you ever buy a PSU from me I'll make sure I include a *free* cable tie 

BTW, to get this thread back on topic: have you found the cause of your vibration yet?


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

blindlemon said:


> If you ever buy a PSU from me I'll make sure I include a *free* cable tie


Hey Mr Blindlemon, I bought a PSU from you about a year ago as a spare. I haven't needed it yet thankfully.

All this talk of having to cut a cable tie is scaring me though. If I ever do need to replace my PSU, could I send my TiVo to you so that you can cut the cable-tie for me?

I won't need to take you up on the offer of a free cable tie, I have a handful of them in my toolbox (who doesn't?), but the thought of cutting one - well, you can imagine the trauma of that.

</end-friendly-sarcastic-funpoke-at-the-petester>


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

b166er said:


> I won't need to take you up on the offer of a free cable tie, I have a handful of them in my toolbox *(who doesn't?)* :


I should think almost anyone who buys a complete large hard drive upgrade from Tivoheaven will not be the sort of person to keep a bag of cable ties in their toolbox.

Unfortunately some of you computer engineer types seem to have forgotten what most normal people actually keep in their home toolbox (i.e. a couple of screwdrivers, a pair of pliars and a few fuses).


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Maybe, but you don't need cable ties for a drive upgrade, and it's debateable whether you need to replace the cable tie after changing the PSU IMHO.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Maybe, but you don't need cable ties for a drive upgrade, and it's debateable whether you need to replace the cable tie after changing the PSU IMHO.


Well I decided to switch to the new power leads that came with the new power supply (perhaps your power supplies don't have new leads with them though) so that meant uncutting all the ties to extract the power lead for the fan, as this wasn't included with the new power leads bundle.

I think I'm prepared to take on a lot more of this stuff than most average Tivo owners. I don't think one should necessarily assume that everyone else will take as obvious steps which are clearly familiar to all those of you who regulalrly dissemble computer innards.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> I think I'm prepared to take on a lot more of this stuff than most average Tivo owners.


Should that have been 
"I think I'm *less well* prepared to take on a lot more of this stuff than most average Tivo owners" ?

You've made an issue about a non-issue (cutting a plastic cable tie).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Should that have been
> 
> "I think I'm *less well* prepared to take on a lot more of this stuff than most average Tivo owners" ?
> 
> You've made an issue about a non-issue (cutting a plastic cable tie).


I think I'm actually far more prepared to do work on a UK S1 Tivo than most "average" UK Tivo owners most of whom (the 20,000+) have never opened or upgraded their machines in any way.

You just mean I'm less well prepared to do such work than the top 100 Tivo techheads who inhabit the Tivo UK section of the Tivocommunity forum.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

mikerr said:


> You've made an issue about a non-issue (cutting a plastic cable tie).


But even cable ties have feelings. 

And it _is _ cutting your ties with the old PSU, that has served you for many years, like a trusted servant.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

The bigger issue is cutting your fingers while trying to open the case itself


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

iankb said:


> But even cable ties have feelings.
> 
> And it _is _ cutting your ties with the old PSU, that has served you for many years, like a trusted servant.


At least there is someone out there who understands how I feel ian.  :up:

To be honest I don't think that there was actually anything wrong with the old power supply as none of its capacitors were bulging and there are no burn marks on it despite around 6 years of use. However I do get these periodic reboots when using demanding Tivoweb applications like Tracker and Highlights, and that are in fact almost certainly caused by memory overflow, but as blindlemon long ago suggested changing the power supply might cure the problem and as the new power supply had been in the drawer for a year I thought I would give it a whirl.

As the old power supply shows no signs of total demise it will now be carefully placed into its retirement home (my drawer) like the trusted servant it has been but may well be recalled to the font line if the whippersnapper that has replaced it proves a less constant ally.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> The bigger issue is cutting your fingers while trying to open the case itself


Never had that happen to me Mike. Surely you're making an issue out of a non issue here?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> but may well be recalled to the font line if the whippersnapper that has replaced it proves a less constant ally.


Make sure you buy some cable ties to put in that drawer as well.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

I've used total and god-like restraint in the past few weeks...

Perhaps I could offer a word of (friendly) advice. Perhaps Pete77's instructions should include 
"Please ensure you fill a bucket with cold water and stand in it while replacing the Power Supply Unit" - (Bucket and Water not supplied)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> I've used total and god-like restraint in the past few weeks...


You clearly seem to be a man of many prejudices so perhaps you would care to explain which one of these prejudices I offend.

Would it be:-

1. Never Rub Another Man's Rhubarb

2. Doesn't Like FatHeads

3. Doesn't Like Me Not Considering A Sports Vest to Be the Height of Sartorial Elegance.

4. Doesn't Like Those who are Folically Challenged and Instead Thinks Everyone Should Have Long Hair and a Moustache.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You clearly seem to be a man of many prejudices so perhaps you would care to explain which one of these prejudices I offend.
> 
> Would it be:-
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I understand? 

Did *I* say something rude and personal ??


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> Did *I* say something rude and personal ??


Your only reason for posting seems to be to criticise the posts of others?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Paul - bizarre thing is, I was thinking of you while posting wondering if you had wandered over to other shores as we hadn't seen you recently. Good to see you back!

But both of you - don't start niggling at each other.

Well, do - but on another thread, because it's funny.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Well beg my pardon... I didn't realise that this was Pete77's TiVo UK forum...

I was merely joining in with the banter.. seems you still have a raw nerve my friend


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> I'm not sure I understand?


Is that why you don't like Fat Heads then?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> I was merely joining in with the banter.. seems you still have a raw nerve my friend


I don't consider your suggestion that I top myself to be banter. I call it overstepping the mark.  :down:


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

There... is that better ! LOL


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> There... is that better ! LOL


To quote you "Never Rub Another Man's Rhubarb".


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> To quote you "Never Rub Another Man's Rhubarb".


Obviously never seen the Film 'BatMan'


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> most "average" UK Tivo owners most of whom (the 20,000+) have never opened or upgraded their machines in any way.


How could anyone one know this?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> Obviously never seen the Film 'BatMan' with Jack Nicolas in it


So Rhubarb should translate as girlfriend, wife or partner then.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> We can use it as general purpose 'off with you to another thread' thread.


This one was only about vibration and throbbing anyhow, although I suppose it has still to reach its natural conclusion when the new power supply is installed and the Tivo is turned back on.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> Paul - which makes it funnier.
> 
> I've got a special thread for you to carry on in, rather than pollute this one,here
> 
> We can use it as general purpose 'off with you to another thread' thread.


Naawww it got deleted...


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I got sent a cease and desist.  

Must be a good person now.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> How could anyone one know this?


Nearly 30,000 Tivos were sold.

But there are only a few hundred UK members of this forum.

The majority of Tivos sold on Ebay are still unmodified 40Gb units

Perhaps Blindlemon or HealeyDave would care to confirm if their sales of upgrade drives have yet topped the 1,000 mark.

Tivos are a standard boxed consumer electronic device with a big sticker on the back saying Warranty Void if Opened. They do not advertise their upgradeability to end users - unlike a PC. There is no offficial upgrade channel.

Is it really plausible that more than one third of Tivo owners have upgraded their Tivo machines in such circumstances? In fact I very much doubt if it has topped 3,000 at the outside. Its called trend analysis - the government does it all the time...............


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> I got sent a cease and desist.


From who?

I haven't noticed you posting anything that might give offence Colin.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

OK getting back on topic and the matter of vibration, reliability and changing power supplies.

If I am fitting this new power supply in the hope of improving reliability and my previous problem was the Tivo rebooting when Tivoweb was working it hard then does it make any sense to turn up the blue pot on the new power supply a notch or two? After all with 2 x 250Gb hard drives the reboot might occur with Tivoweb working hard because the Tivo tries to draw more power than is currently available.

How many notches am I safe to turn up the Blue pepper pot - 1, 2 or what exactly - and what downsides are there? Can I fry my Tivo motherboard if I turn up the blue pepper pot too far or should even its maximum setting be within the working limits of the motherboard of the Tivo?

Any thoughts on this are gratefully appreciated.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> How many notches am I safe to turn up the Blue pepper pot - 1, 2 or what exactly - and what downsides are there? Can I fry my Tivo motherboard if I turn up the blue pepper pot too far or should even its maximum setting be within the working limits of the motherboard of the Tivo?
> 
> Any thoughts on this are gratefully appreciated.


Pete77, If I were you I'd suck it and see for a bit, no point in overdriving the PSU if its brand spankin' and not causing any problems.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> Pete77, If I were you I'd suck it and see for a bit, no point in overdriving the PSU if its brand spankin' and not causing any problems.


You may perhaps have a good point there for once Paul.  

So you are saying try it and see if I still get the reboots. If I don't then no need to change but if I do may be try turning it up a notch or two.

On the other hand if the cause of the problems isn't the power supply then gradually notching up the blue pot may in the end fry my motherboard. And of course I could have tried notching up the old power supply but never did.

An interesting point is that the new power supply despite otherwise looking identical to the old one (although with a higher serial number by some margin than the one it is replacing from a 601E near Day 1 Tivo) has a sticker on top of the big Autec capacitor saying A9 compared to one that said A7 on the original power supply. But perhaps this is only the ID of the staff member who quality checked it as it came off the production line, although could it instead possibly perhaps be a change in the spec of the component used?


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Nearly 30,000 Tivos were sold.
> 
> But there are only a few hundred UK members of this forum.
> 
> ...


Sorry to go OT again. I didn't know that about ebayed tivos.

I always assumed that most people had upgraded and felt no need to talk about it here. There's more than enough info to do it without actually joining.

Tivoheaven are relatively new, I would guess most upgraders would have done so prior to BlindLemon setting up tivoheaven.

I guess you're probable right though.



Pete77 said:


> Its called trend analysis - *the government does it all the time*...............


On second thoughts, this must be deeply flawed


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Perhaps those selling their TiVo's on EBay put the original disks back in. I know I would, as I could use the big disk for other purposes. As well as take the cachecard out.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You may perhaps have a good point there for once Paul.


I have my moments.... 

Effectively, the PSU is designed to drive two disks, do newer drives suck more juice than older ones? I don't know and I won't lie awake worrying about it, but... if it ain't broke, don't tweak it. 
Push it too far and you'll bake your MB and then it will be time for tears all round.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> On second thoughts, this must be deeply flawed


Lies, damned lies and statistics and all that.  

But I have noticed that even quite a few people who make posts in this forum haven't upgraded and there only seems to be may be 1,000 or so UK members of the forum at the most.

And the other point is a lot of Tivo boxes are being sold on Ebay allegedly due to Sky HD upgrades and yet most such Tivo boxes are still not upgraded.

This suggests to me that most people just still want a box they install and then don't touch. Your perception of what is actually going on may perhaps be distorted by the fact that most people who visit this forum are potential upgraders or have upgraded.

My impression is that before www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo and Tivoland and TivoHeaven came along no more than 500 people at most in the UK had upgraded because it needed obscure specialist Linux knowledge and because bigger drives were expensive. But now with big drives being cheap and Tivoland and TivoHeaven and the SteveConrad.co.uk site being there probably a couple of thousand have done an upgrade but I can't see it as more than that.

And I bet sitting in cupboards there are at least another 2,000 or more Tivos that have gone out of service, mainly because the hard drive failed and Tivo customer service said they had no repair facility any more and also in some cases because Sky HD has replaced the Tivo but the owner is too lazy or well off to get round to selling the Tivo on Ebay...........................


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> And I bet sitting in cupboards there are at least another 2,000 or more Tivos that have gone out of service, mainly because the hard drive failed and Tivo customer service said they had no repair facility any more and also in some cases because Sky HD has replaced the Tivo but the owner is too lazy or well off to get round to selling the Tivo on Ebay...........................


Well, there's one in my cupboard, but I'm still hoping to save enough money to get it repaired.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> Perhaps those selling their TiVo's on EBay put the original disks back in. I know I would, as I could use the big disk for other purposes. As well as take the cachecard out.


Say you upgraded your disks three years ago and have a 160Gb or 2 x 120Gb in your Tivo. These disks are now heavily worn and cost damn all to buy new and are smaller than you would want as a new 3.5" IDE drive anyway.

Are you really going to take out the old hard drives when Tivos with uprated drives go for quite a bit more on Ebay than those with the standard 40Gb and why exactly would you take out the Cachecard? Are you going it pride of place on your mantelpiece or something? On the whole machines with a Cachecard do go for another £50 or so more than one that hasn't got one.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Well, there's one in my cupboard, but I'm still hoping to save enough money to get it repaired.


You do still have a working Tivo I hope Raisltin and this isn't your original pride and joy is it?

Or is it just a broken Tivo that you managed to pick up on Ebay for next to nothing and hope to get going as your second Tivo one day.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> this isn't your original pride and joy is it?


Yes it is


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Yes it is


But that was over two years ago.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> But that was over two years ago.


Yeah, it was my *original* pride and joy.

I got a bonus at work about 6 months later, this paid for tivo2


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Well I too have a broken tivo in the cupboard... as well as the 3 operational ones.

It has a spontaneous reboot problem (every couple of mins) that a new psu and hdd didn't cure 
- I didn't have the heart to dump it on some unsuspecting ebayer, so its there as a backup/test machine.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> OK getting back on topic and the matter of vibration, reliability and changing power supplies.
> 
> If I am fitting this new power supply in the hope of improving reliability and my previous problem was the Tivo rebooting when Tivoweb was working it hard.


Reboots when TW is processing large NPs like yours are almost certainly due to out-of-memory problems. I've seen it loads of times when writing my code to merge two NP lists form two expanded TiVos, creating a list about the size of yours. Highly unlikely to be hardware related IMHO.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Yeah, it was my *original* pride and joy.
> 
> I got a bonus at work about 6 months later, this paid for tivo2


OK its good to know that you still have a working Tivo. For a minute I was beginning to think there was a special reason why the Monthly Sub arrangement made particular sense for you.  

Anyhow I can report success on the power supply replacement project and the little Tivo is humming away happily again and also having screwed down the hard dirves fully I don't think I can hear the vibration I could hear before.

It remains to be seen if reboots under heavy Tivoweb use will be avoided with the new power supply. In fact I think already know the answer to that question which is that the reboots will carry on as before. But let's hope that I'm proved wrong.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Reboots when TW is processing large NPs like yours are almost certainly due to out-of-memory problems. I've seen it loads of times when writing my code to merge two NP lists form two expanded TiVos, creating a list about the size of yours. Highly unlikely to be hardware related IMHO.


I expect that you're right but I had to take the Tivo apart anyway to blow the dust out of the fan (never removed the fan before) and screw down the hard drives more so it was the time to change power supplies just in case. To be honest the old power supply looked in A1 nick without any sign of those supposedly bulging and bursting capacitors it is meant to have after 6 years use.

A few demanding Tivoweb operations will I'm sure confirm that the Tivoweb memory overflow problem persists.  All the more reason to then ditch all those hundreds of recordings I'm never going to find time to watch and then start using Mode 0 for everything but probably with VBR at 4800000 rather than 7500000 as you favour. This should hopefully yield around 200 hours or so recording time.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM,

As you so wisely forecast after using a few more demanding Tivoweb operations I was eventually able to get my Tivo to spontanously reboot while trying to access Ljay's Explicitly Thumbed module under User Interface/Preferences. So fitting the new power supply has made no difference.  

And to shoot another of blindlemon's Sacred Cows I am currently running the Tivo with the lid off and it has reached a stable Internal Temperature of 36C compared to 37C in precisely the same operating conditions and room temp with the lid on. Now to my mind a saving of just 1C in operating temp doesn't warrant the risk of my niece or nephew electrocuting themselves on their next visit here or of my Tivo catching fire when a mouse decides to try and build a nest inside it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

By the way in case anyone is interested the lithium CR 2032 battery on the Tivo motherboard does indeed remember the time and date on the Tivo when the power is switched off.

I pulled the battery on my motherboard just to see what it did and on the next restart the Tivo firstly proclaimed it was now some date in May 2008 (surprising as I would have expected it to drop back to a date in the late 90s when the Tivo's motherboard was designed) and then said as it hadn't collected data for over a month did I want it to do a daily call now. After doing the daily call it then reset the time and date to today.

So if the CR2032 battery ever dies on you and you then have a power failure your Tivo might well make no recordings for up to 24 hours until it hits its next call time and calls Tivo and corrects the clock and date to the correct settings. Its rather surprising that a 6.5 year old battery is still working at all but as the Tivo is on basically 24/7 the battery probably gets very little current drain. In any event I'm going to replace the battery while I think of it before it does finally gives up the ghost.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> And to shoot another of blindlemon's Sacred Cows I am currently running the Tivo with the lid off and it has reached a stable Internal Temperature of 36C compared to 37C in precisely the same operating conditions and room temp with the lid on.


Sorry, which sacred cow was that? 

I don't recall ever having made any sacrosanct statements about keeping the lid on. In some circumstances - eg. where the TiVo is operating in free air in a well ventilated room, the temperature will be lower with the lid off - it stands to reason. However, if you have your TiVo in a closed AV cabinet with a load of other equipment then taking the lid off isn't likely to make much difference.

AFAIK the only really stong asserion I've ever made about the TiVo lid is that it's a pig to get off


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> *I don't recall ever having made any sacrosanct statements about keeping the lid on. In some circumstances - eg. where the TiVo is operating in free air in a well ventilated room, the temperature will be lower with the lid off - it stands to reason. However, if you have your TiVo in a closed AV cabinet with a load of other equipment then taking the lid off isn't likely to make much difference*.
> 
> AFAIK the only really stong asserion I've ever made about the TiVo lid is that it's a pig to get off


But in post:-

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4496322&&#post4496322

You said:-



> *If your TiVo is hidden in a cabinet, why not run it with the lid  off if you're worried about temperature?*


And I do also recall you stating on a large number of occasions in the past that replacement of the power supply was often a solution to many unexpected Tivo reboot problems.

Perhaps I haven't refitted the fan the right way round, although I have fitted it with the Panaflo side towards the outside of the cabinet and the Panaflo writing facing upwards rather than sidways or upside down and also with the side with silver bearing to the inside of the cabinet as per pictures in Steve Conrad's guides, although despite the Flo marking I couldn't really decide if one would want to be blowing cold air in to or sucking hot air out of the Tivo. I can now feel air blowing out the back of the Tivo. Is this correct.

It seems uncanny that the stabilised operating temp after being left on all night is now precisely the same 37C as it was before with the lid firmly screwed on.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Your reboots are not really random reboots though are they? You say its during heavy tivoweb usage, so almost certainly a software error, especially in view of your 600 np list 

To answer the air flow queston, yes the normal setup for tivo is to be drawing air out of the back of the tivo.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> But in post:- www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4496322&&#post4496322 You said:-


OK, you've got me there  I clearly don't remember my own posts as well as you do, and I guess I should have searched through them (as you obviously did) before posting this time 

However, I never stated categorically even in the post you've found, that taking the lid off _definitely would_ reduce the temperature - I just suggested giving it a try. I'd hardly call that setting up a sacred cow.



Pete77 said:


> And I do also recall you stating on a large number of occasions in the past that replacement of the power supply was often a solution to many unexpected Tivo reboot problems.


Yes, I have, but the key word here is 'often'. Again, I have never said that all TiVo reboots are caused by a faulty PSU.

So no sacred cow there either I'm afraid... :down:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> OK, you've got me there  I clearly don't remember my own posts as well as you do, and I guess I should have searched through them (as you obviously did) before posting this time


I only searched for it because I clearly remember it was you who recommended that if I keep my Tivo permanently in an AV cabinet it would then be safe to run it with the lid permanently off and that this should also reduce operating temperature.



> However, I never stated categorically even in the post you've found, that taking the lid off _definitely would_ reduce the temperature - I just suggested giving it a try.


But we have faith in you as the Master on such matters oh Lord Blindlemon. We naturally expect all utterances of the oracle to be the product of years of extensive research and testing.  



> Yes, I have, but the key word here is 'often'. Again, I have never said that all TiVo reboots are caused by a faulty PSU.


But regularly following this forum as I do all I can see is a large trail of people who were advised to change the power supply just in case it was the source of their problem only for virtulally all of them to report that changing the power supply made no difference to their problem. And we all know what has happened to the price and availability of UK Tivo S1 power supplies as a result of the regular advice that fitting a new power supply may have a sort of witch doctor like ability to fix many longstanding Tivo ills.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> it was you who recommended that if I keep my Tivo permanently in an AV cabinet it would then be safe to run it with the lid permanently off and that this should also reduce operating temperature.


In many cases that would reduce the temperature, but it obviously depends how well (or not) your AV cabinet is ventilated. From the results of your recent experiment I would suspect your AV cabinet is not very well ventilated, as running a TiVo with the lid off in free air generally results in at least a 3C reduction, often more. 


Pete77 said:


> I can see is a large trail of people who were advised to change the power supply just in case it was the source of their problem only for virtulally all of them to report that changing the power supply made no difference to their problem.


I think if you check the large trail of posts again you will see that I normally _*suggest*_ that people _*might try*_ changing the PSU.

There are not many instances where it's obvious that the PSU is the cause of the problem, but there are plenty where it might be - and I have personally witnessed at least 3 TiVos that were cured of random reboots by changing the PSU, so I can only speak from my own experience. As you have admitted, your reboots are probably caused by running out of memory during TiVoWeb operations, so what's the point of debating whether it's worth changing the PSU or not? Clearly, in this case you now feel that you have 'wasted' a new PSU, but in fact all you've done is taken the one from your drawer and swapped it for the one in your TiVo - you still have both PSUs; only their locations have changed. 


Pete77 said:


> And we all know what has happened to the price and availability of UK Tivo S1 power supplies as a result of the regular advice that fitting a new power supply may have a sort of witch doctor like ability to fix many longstanding Tivo ills.


Most people buy a new PSU as a 'spare', and they are still available pretty cheaply if you look around.

Unfortunately though, they are no longer available direct from the US supplier I used to use so I have to source my small stock from UK suppliers and offer them as a convenience item rather than a bargain. Sadly, you seem to be implying that I have single-handedly caused the availability of PSUs to dry up and am now taking advantage of this. However, if you think back a couple of years you'll hopefully remember that I arranged a bulk buy of PSUs, pretty much at cost for over 100 members of this forum.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Sadly, you seem to be implying that I have single-handedly caused the availability of PSUs to dry up and am now taking advantage of this. However, if you think back a couple of years you'll hopefully remember that I arranged a bulk buy of PSUs, pretty much at cost for over 100 members of this forum.


I didn't mean to imply that your advice was given for any commercially based reason. I was merely suggesting that because power supply replacement is so often recommended as a fix for faulty Tivos that the fixed and finite stocks of Tivo S1 power supplies have now been largely bought up by end users as a "just in case" spare.

I understand that the price of power supplies on your website is largely determined by the fact that you now have real trouble getting hold of any new stock so are not very keen to let the few that you have left go.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> in fact all you've done is taken the one from your drawer and swapped it for the one in your TiVo - you still have both PSUs; only their locations have changed.


Yes but I had to spend a lot more than 10 minutes (more like 2 hours) doing the swap and my Tivo internal wiring is now untidy floppy Spaghetti rather than in neatly cable tied bundles.


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## Blacque Jacque (Dec 26, 2006)

You could always just buy some more cable ties


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Is it just me, or do the words 'storm' and 'teacup' come to mind.

Hey -BlindLemon. My spacebar on my laptop has started acting up. I have to press it real hard orEverythingRunsTogether. It happened while looking at your website. Why don't you have a warning on there that thismighthappen?


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

As Mr Younger would say....

"In the Red Corner.... Blindlemon..... In the Blue Corner.... Pete77..."

Now gents I want a good clean fight, no biting, scratching or pulling hair...


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I am outclassed and out of my league in such prodigiously argumentative company  

I resign


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> I am outclassed and out of my league in such prodigiously argumentative company
> 
> I resign


Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> I am outclassed and out of my league in such prodigiously argumentative company
> 
> I resign


Yes I would have thought that a bout with either Paul Wilkins himself and/or ndunlavey would probably have been more appropriate for the boxing ring.

You and I tend to prefer only to joust in friendly fashion using the written word blindlemon.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

So... lets get back on topic...
How hot is too hot??

Simple, if your TiVo is rebooting coz its too hot... and lets face it, my G5 PowerPC used to run quite happy at 70C (Yes, Really!) I don't think there is an issue here... If its too hot.. Waft it with yer cap !


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You and I tend to prefer only to joust in friendly fashion using the written word blindlemon.


But how do you know?? Mr BL could be knawing on a phone directory and ready to pop ..
Spooky !


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> But how do you know?? Mr BL could be knawing on a phone directory and ready to pop ..
> Spooky !


He usually sends me a private email before things get to that stage.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> He usually sends me a private email before things get to that stage.


Awww thats sweet...


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## SilkMan (Feb 13, 2007)

He never sends me one  

Don't bother - too late now anyways - I'll just sulk in my corner.


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