# Is it time to "Cut Tivo"? The "clouds" are looming.



## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

Been running TIVO for a long time.

My Series 3 has been flawless. OTA 1TB. No regrets.

But I've been on a watt cutting binge. One thing that stands out a lot is my Tivo. 30 watts.
I tried 3 times to upgrade (2 Bolt's and 1 RoamIO). The picture quality was clearly, to my eyes worse.

We probably have 5 programs we care about on it these days, if that.

I was willing to look the other way and give in on the Picture Quality, since we watch so little on it. I'm also willing to look the other way around the cooling/fan issue I recall the last time I researched a Bolt. I know the Series 3 is due to die soon. But I'm not gonna pay $250 for "All-in". I contacted TIVO and they would not budge. I know the $99 deal will come around again. I'm itching to clean up things and move forward now.

One of the primary things my wife watches is PBS. We can't use the PBS Streaming because none of our boxes handle that. So I could get a Roku (Always wanted one, but had no justification, stream in the LG has been flawless and easy). We already get PBS streaming service for free because of regular donations. This might even open up more programming we didn't have.

2-3 of the shows we watch on TIVO is on Netflix already. Probably always 1 season behind. Hey we "lost" programming back when we "cut cable", never really missed it. We'll have plenty to choose. So we might lose a few things when we "cut TIVO". And because of this, more and more "OTA" is popping up as Streamed.

A friend had Dish and just switched to Dish over IP. She went from $120 to $40 (something like that). And she gets a "small" cloud based DVR with it (which she could enlarge for a fee). She gets Dish through her Roku. Including Local Broadcast.

I bet TIVO could have a Cloud based DVR service cheaper than it cost for electricity to run a local DVR.

I think it may be time. TIVO is going to join Block Buster if they don't get creative. It's probably already to late and just milking folks that don't know how to let go.

I think the only thing I'd really miss is Pausing / Backing up a live broadcast (e.g. news), something I would not normally even record.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

You haven't been keeping up with what's new and in the potential pipeline for TiVo. They are innovating and perhaps a cloud based DVR is close at hand. Streaming service via TiVo... Perhaps? Android and Apple streamers instead of minis at each tv. Out of home viewing on a tablet or smartphone. Programming via their apps. Network remote controls.

Any Tivo CES 2019 news? Try this. Currently 10 pages deep. Several links to new stuff in the works. TiVo Ted has stopped in and commented too.

Been a happy TiVo owner since December of 2000. Have owned everything from a Sony series 1 to their newest offerings. I don't think I'm uniformed or a clueless rube. They've got many miles to go and more innovations to release. Yep, I'm a fan and a very happy customer.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

1: Cloud based isn't the magical unicorn everyone thinks it is.

2: While I agree, and have said in the past, that TiVo must "innovate or die", the imminent death of TiVo has now been predicted for two decades.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Your biggest users of electricity in your house are your major appliances. Your refrigerator also throws out heat while you are running AC. WATT busting is a waste of time, air drying your clothes and stop using energy hog dryers now you are making a difference. Cloud DVR's still are not comparable to hardware dvr's. In a number of ways cloud dvr's are a step backwards to what you are used to.


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## zombiephysicist (Sep 22, 2017)

Interface on all cloud services is awful. That they FORCE you to watch commercials is unacceptable. While I'm not against the concept, every single implementation that is tried keeps me running back to TiVo.

Netflix does a decent job but finding anything on it is awful. Their recommendations are like they are from my worst enemy trying to torture me with selections. The ability to find live TV type media on there would be a nightmare as even now, finding things on there is just awful.

I keep an open mind, but so far, all the companies have made me hug my TiVo more and more.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm gonna pick up a Tablo tomorrow.
$99 + storage + $149 for guide.
Will Probably also add a Fire Stick or Ruko for PBS Streaming for my wife.

There are lots of other choices too that folks are really happy with.

Amazon Recast (limited to 720p and closed system) but 1000's of reviews rated higher than Tivo.
nVidia Shield TV + USB Tablo + Storage + Tablo Guide (very tempted, lots of moving parts)
nVidia Shield TV + USB WinTV + Storage + Plex Guide

I chose the Tablo because it can stream straight to the LG TV WebOs 3.0, inexpensive, expandable storage. Most negative reviews are from folks shocked they have to pay for Guide. The Guide is obviously not as rich as Tivo. But like I said, OTA is gradually going away for us, and others. It will also be wired Ethernet on Tablo and LG TV. So it should be able to stream at it's highest quality (10 mbs, 1080i).


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

tenthplanet said:


> Your biggest users of electricity in your house are your major appliances. Your refrigerator also throws out heat while you are running AC. WATT busting is a waste of time, air drying your clothes and stop using energy hog dryers now you are making a difference. Cloud DVR's still are not comparable to hardware dvr's. In a number of ways cloud dvr's are a step backwards to what you are used to.


Try this.

My (Old 2001) Frig uses 550 kWh a year (or 1500 wh a day).
Guess what, my old Series 3 Tivo uses 30 watts * 24 hr (or 720 wh a day). My Series 3 Tivo uses half a Frig !! That's why I want to get rid of it.

All my "heat" appliances are gas. We also have tankless hot water and variable speed 98% efficient gas HVAC. All new (2 years old).

My standby power for the house, when we are away is 166 watts (without Heat and Frig). That accounts for about 2/3 of our usage. Appliances (that don't electric heat or cool) don't use that much.

That 166 watts (24/7) + frig (cycling) + HVAC Blower (cycling) accounts for ~95% of the bill. The rest is TV and Computers.

My "standby" used to be 360 watts, saved about 200 watts in total. By doing lot's of simple things (smart strips, timers, motion sensors, upgrading to smarter electronics).
That's $438 a year. I guess that's a waste time for you, but not for me.

I expect the new Tablo to be smart and perhaps use less than 1 watt on standby (not recording), like most modern electronics do these days, when sleeping/idle/standby.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

mswlogo said:


> My Series 3 has been flawless.


There were three great Tivo's, history will reflect back: the prototype in the limited test market (because it was the first), the HR10-250 DirecTivo (because it was just the best DVR ever made, combination of the open device itself and DirecTV at its peak), and HD as the last great (open) Tivo. My modded Tivo HDs are among my most treasured possessions. I group the original series 3 with the HD, superior in some ways but edge to the HD because of the fully-activated mpeg4 capability.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

mswlogo said:


> Try this.
> 
> My (Old 2001) Frig uses 550 kWh a year (or 1500 wh a day).
> Guess what, my old Series 3 Tivo uses 30 watts * 24 hr (or 720 wh a day). My Series 3 Tivo uses half a Frig !! That's why I want to get rid of it.
> ...


I use trapped heat for passive heating, trapped cold for passive cooling, one lamp to light an immediate area. I know how to bill bust with minimal effort.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

mswlogo said:


> expect the new Tablo to be smart and perhaps use less than 1 watt on standby (not recording),


Idle 9.2 Watts + USB drive

How much power does Tablo consume?
March 24, 2018


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## tkrotchko (Jun 7, 2007)

mswlogo said:


> Been running TIVO for a long time.
> [...]
> I think it may be time. TIVO is going to join Block Buster if they don't get creative. It's probably already to late and just milking folks that don't know how to let go.
> [...]
> I think the only thing I'd really miss is Pausing / Backing up a live broadcast (e.g. news), something I would not normally even record.


In my opinion, the biggest threat to Tivo right now is that the major cable TV providers, Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, DISH, are dying a slow death. Verizon which has normally been solid, is now pulling shenanigans dropping pay channels specified in your contract without compensating people and the big discounts are going away. The profits are shrinking rapidly as the millenials and gen x-ers are cutting the cord, which is reducing channel selection and driving prices up for the customers who remain.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

jth tv said:


> Idle 9.2 Watts + USB drive
> 
> How much power does Tablo consume?
> March 24, 2018


It's currently using 6 watts idle with a USB drive.

I have an nVidia Shield TV coming today. Folks are saying 3.5 watts idle.

The Tablo is very good. It has an extremely slight judder on panning. I don't watch sports. If I did it would be unacceptable. I'll probably keep it if nVidia isn't a lot batter.

The Quality and flexibly is great Tablo.

You can't skip commercials when watching delayed. It does sone sort of post processing after it's done recording.

The phone app appears way ahead of the LG WebOS app. I had to change options on the phone that were not visible in the TV. But the effect still worked on the TV. Like enabling Dolby Surround. I'm concerned the LG App will be dropped. LG doing streaming it, was a bonus. Most other streaming boxes support Tablo App. But most are wireless.

After a bit of research nVidia Sjield TV is supposed resolve the judder issue most of these other "streaming DVR" have.

The nVidia will end up costing close to a Bolt + $99 lifetime transfer ( not available right now).

$179 Shield + $69 WinTV + $119 Plex lifetime guide.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

30 Watts for a TiVo? MEH!

That's about 22 kWh per month, whereas our average monthly usage (with gas heat) is at least 900 kWh. So the Tivo is less than 3%. We could probably save more than that by just increasing our summer thermostat setting by one degree.

How much electricity we use is not the issue. How much we pay for it might be. When we lived in the same size home in 1989, with less efficient furnace and AC, our average monthly bill for gas+electric was $89. Now it's something like 2 or 3 times that. It's grown a lot faster than inflation.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

720Wh/day is ~$2.50/month or $30/year.

Assuming the Tivo really is using 30W continuous (IIRC, my base Roamio isn't half that)

OP could use a mechanical timer to cut on the Tivo 10 minutes prior to showtime, cutting power a few minutes after the show(s) end.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

ncbill said:


> 720Wh/day is ~$2.50/month or $30/year.
> 
> Assuming the Tivo really is using 30W continuous (IIRC, my base Roamio isn't half that)
> 
> OP could use a mechanical timer to cut on the Tivo 10 minutes prior to showtime, cutting power a few minutes after the show(s) end.


I considered that.

Two problems.

Googling around folks say it will quickly corrupt.

2nd I want my wife to be able watch any time. I can set up SmartThings and logictech to turn it on. I have lots of tricky macros now to make it seamless and low watts. But the Tivo takes forever and a day to boot.

And it's $65 / year for 30 watts.
That assumes electricity doesn't go up and it will. 
It's not just the money.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

dlfl said:


> 30 Watts for a TiVo? MEH!
> 
> That's about 22 kWh per month, whereas our average monthly usage (with gas heat) is at least 900 kWh. So the Tivo is less than 3%. We could probably save more than that by just increasing our summer thermostat setting by one degree.
> 
> How much electricity we use is not the issue. How much we pay for it might be. When we lived in the same size home in 1989, with less efficient furnace and AC, our average monthly bill for gas+electric was $89. Now it's something like 2 or 3 times that. It's grown a lot faster than inflation.


We use 400 kWh / mo
That Tivo is 5% of our bill. That is ridiculous for a DVR today.

You have large usage because you don't care how much you use. So that's your justification.

Maybe if I get 5 more TV's, a bigger Frig and turn the AC down then it won't look so wasteful. That is basically the logic you are using.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mswlogo said:


> We use 400 kWh / mo
> That Tivo is 5% of our bill. That is ridiculous for a DVR today.
> 
> You have large usage because you don't care how much you use. So that's your justification.
> ...


Your usage is way below average. Consider this:


> In 2017, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,399 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 867 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 14,242 kWh per residential customer, and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,074 kWh per residential customer.


From this U.S. Energy Information Administration source:
How much electricity does an American home use? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
Obviously regional climate makes a big difference. Where are you located?

You are wrong to infer that we don't care how much we use. The two largest items are AC and an electric clothes dryer. Our AC is SEER 14 and the thermostat is set as high as we can stand, and our neighborhood homeowners association does not allow drying clothes on clothes lines. Our stove is electric but I don't think that actually uses that much. Our refrigerator is rather small by today's standards (10 cubic feet). We use LED lighting and timers on many lights. We have only one large screen TV.

At $0.12/kWh a 30 W load costs us just $32/year. Apparently your rates must be really high if 30 W costs you $65/yr.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mswlogo said:


> .......
> All my "heat" appliances are gas. We also have tankless hot water and variable speed 98% efficient gas HVAC. All new (2 years old).
> ......
> My "standby" used to be 360 watts, saved about 200 watts in total. By doing lot's of simple things (smart strips, timers, motion sensors, upgrading to smarter electronics).
> ...


Please clarify: By "gas HVAC" do you mean your AC uses gas rather than electricity (except for the blower)? That would explain most of your way-below-average electricity usage -- OR -- you live somewhere cold where very little AC is needed.

If saving 200 watts reduces your bill by $438, that implies a cost of $0.25/kWh (!). Where do you live and what is your power company? (And have you considered moving? )


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

dlfl said:


> If saving 200 watts reduces your bill by $438, that implies a cost of $0.25/kWh (!). Where do you live and what is your power company? (And have you considered moving? )


That basically leaves Hawaii, where electricity can run north of 30 cents/kWh. I'd become a miser too.

Then again, if I lived in Hawaii I question how much of my time would be spent in front of the boob tube.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

dlfl said:


> Please clarify: By "gas HVAC" do you mean your AC uses gas rather than electricity (except for the blower)? That would explain most of your way-below-average electricity usage -- OR -- you live somewhere cold where very little AC is needed.
> 
> If saving 200 watts reduces your bill by $438, that implies a cost of $0.25/kWh (!). Where do you live and what is your power company? (And have you considered moving? )


Yes my electricity is $.25 /KWh
MA National Grid. It's that expensive in lots of places. Or even higher. Why should I move if my electric bill is $100/mo. Oh, so I can have more TV's and run the AC lower?

My heat water, dryer, is gas, my AC is electric. We set AC to 78 when it is sparingly used.

My electricity usage is low because we don't piss it away as the "average" consumer does.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

Tablo is running great. It’s a keeper. I think I got rid of the judder. I had lowered it from max quality because it was stalling. Then later turned it back up and it seems fine now. Might have been running a slower drive. I might put a SmartThings switch on it to only run 7PM to 11PM. It boots in a few seconds. The phone app is great.

Now all viewing is done through Smart TV. NetFlix, Amazon and Tablo. 3 apps all within the TV. So it’s nice and clean and easy.

I tried the nVidia Shield TV. Hardware was very nice. But Plex was so buggy. Wanted it to work and tried many things. Googling around confirmed my problems. Great as a streaming box or paired with Tablo. But not for a local DVR.

Also tried “Live Channels” app on Shield, which was a very simple DVR that worked. Guide was Free !! It did not differentiate reruns (which I could live with) but I could not jump into the start of a recording in progress. Which we do all the time and would not want to do without that. Saw postings of Plex having that issue as well. Tablo does that fine.

Quality on Tablo or Shield seems better than Bolt or Roam IO. About on par with the Series 3 HD.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

mswlogo said:


> Yes my electricity is $.25 /KWh
> MA National Grid. It's that expensive in lots of places. Or even higher. Why should I move if my electric bill is $100/mo.


Because you're paying double what your own utility says the rate is?

Service Rates | Bills, Meters & Rates | National Grid

* Regular Residential (R-1)*
This is our standard rate for the majority of our residential customers, as other rates require special conditions. Service is also available for church and farm customers.

*Rates for Delivery Service*
(For definitions of these charges, please view Glossary of terms on your bill.)

*Customer Charge* $5.50/month
*Distribution Charge** 6.023¢/kWh
*Transmission Charge* 3.229¢/kWh
*Transition Charge* (0.063)¢/kWh
*Energy Efficiency Charge* 1.786¢/kWh
*Renewables Charge* 0.050¢/kWh
*Distribution Solar Charge* 0.146¢/kWh

Even double the highest rate listed in "time of use".

* Time-of-Use (R-4)*
This rate is available for all domestic purposes in an individual private dwelling or an individual apartment and for church and farm purposes. For customers requiring special and complex metering for service, the availability of this rate will be subject to the Company's ability to render such service. Any residential customer whose average usage exceeds 2,500 kWh/month for a 12 month period may elect to take service under this rate effective with installation of appropriate metering. Until service can be provided under this rate, the customer shall take service under Rate R-1. Some condominium associations are also eligible for this rate.

Peak hours will be from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. daily on Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.

Off-Peak hours will be from 9:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. daily Monday through Friday, and all day on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.

*Rates for Delivery Service*
(For definitions of these charges, please view Glossary of terms on your bill.)

*Customer Charge* $20.00/month
*Distribution Charge (Peak Hours*)* 13.833¢/kWh
*Distribution Charge (Off-Peak Hours*)* 3.878¢/kWh
*Transmission Charge* 2.730¢/kWh
*Transition Charge* (0.040)¢/kWh
*Energy Efficiency Charge* 1.786¢/kWh
*Renewables Charge* 0.050¢/kWh
*Distribution Solar Charge* 0.197¢/kWh

Your narrative of being a smart consumer, superior to all others, is crumbling fast.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

I had to find a link that was nice and easy for you to read. This is rates as of 4 years ago. It's obviously higher now.

National Grid proposes rate increase for winter, but not as much as last year

My guess is you don't know how much you pay for electricity.

They are sneaky and keep the cost of electricity separate from the cost to deliver it. Your looking at half of it.

It can also vary by town. Some towns serve as their own electric company and have cheaper rates. I'm not in one of those towns. Those bring the state average down.

The easiest way to tell what you really pay is to look at your bill. Total it and divide by the kWh for that bill. The rate also changes based on the amount you use.

It's gone up 20% in the last 4 years. And I expect it to continue.

And there is no off peak rates.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

mswlogo said:


> The easiest way to tell what you really pay is to look at your bill. Total it and divide by the kWh for that bill.


Yes, that's how it works. For everybody. We all know how to read the bill, we all know how to do basic math. But you are still superior, we all bow to you, O King. You are the first to ever be so clever as to include the delivery charges and taxes in the rate for electricity. How we could all have been such fools astounds me. Except of course, we're all such fools, so of course it would astound me.

Please, please, I beg of you. Enlighten us further. Are taxes charged on anything else? Any delivery charges, such as on the gas bill, or when purchasing a car? Or wait...is Amazon a big scam?!? I pay for shipping, even if I have Prime, because I should factor in the cost of Prime with each item I order? What a concept! I don't think we idiots can understand that!

Funny it took you so much effort to find a link that proves your point, and it's 3.5 years out of date. But you're still King, though. Vastly superior, that's obvious even to us lower lifeforms.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mswlogo said:


> Yes my electricity is $.25 /KWh
> MA National Grid. It's that expensive in lots of places. Or even higher. Why should I move if my electric bill is $100/mo. Oh, so I can have more TV's and run the AC lower?


Well those would be motivating factors for many folks, and you wouldn't have to be complaining about a TiVo using just 30 W.


mswlogo said:


> My heat water, dryer, is gas, my AC is electric. We set AC to 78 when it is sparingly used.
> 
> My electricity usage is low because we don't piss it away as the "average" consumer does.


But partly because you have a gas dryer, so you're substituting gas costs for electricity costs. And for humid climates such as where we live, setting the AC to 78 is unbearable because it doesn't take enough moisture out.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Please take the electricity cost arguments elsewhere like the Post Testing Area or even the Coffee House. I know it's traditional to take threads way off-topic here, but it's out of control.

The Upgrade Center isn't the place for this kind of p*ssing match.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

stile99 said:


> Yes, that's how it works. For everybody. We all know how to read the bill, we all know how to do basic math. But you are still superior, we all bow to you, O King. You are the first to ever be so clever as to include the delivery charges and taxes in the rate for electricity. How we could all have been such fools astounds me. Except of course, we're all such fools, so of course it would astound me.
> 
> Please, please, I beg of you. Enlighten us further. Are taxes charged on anything else? Any delivery charges, such as on the gas bill, or when purchasing a car? Or wait...is Amazon a big scam?!? I pay for shipping, even if I have Prime, because I should factor in the cost of Prime with each item I order? What a concept! I don't think we idiots can understand that!
> 
> Funny it took you so much effort to find a link that proves your point, and it's 3.5 years out of date. But you're still King, though. Vastly superior, that's obvious even to us lower lifeforms.


Do you subtract taxes when you would quote a gas price? Of course you include everything.

It seems a few people are feeling foolish here because they don't know how to read a bill or what their appliances really cost to run.
Folks posting gibberish on what I do pay for electricity. And now they have to get on some sort of superior high horse to safe face.

We pay a lot for electricity. I've been cleaning up our house for some time. The old TIVO was an OBVIOUS target.
I'm sure the new Bolt is much better (especially with it's sleep modes). But $500.00 was a bit excessive to replace it.
I could wait until it would cost $350 to replace. I really would expect a device like this to use less than 1 watt when sleeping.
If it was available for the $99 transfer fee, I would have tried a Bolt one more time (I would have lowered my expectations though).

Bottom line is the old TIVO is a pig. New TIVO's are over priced and with poorer quality and less features than some competing solutions.
They do work very smooth for what they do though. And very reliable. Well the old ones were.
I've seen threads on noise, fans failing and cooling issues with Bolt's. Not sure how much any of that is resolved from the last time I tried a Bolt.

The Tablo was $99 + $150 (Guide) + I had a drive I could use but you could spend about $100 for that.
Tablo at that price is available now. It's more flexible than a Tivo, from what I recall when I tried the Bolt it was pretty restrictive.
Bolt also is a step down in Video Quality as well. I had tested on 50" Kuro and 65" OLED (Professionally calibrated). If it had matched Video Quality I would have kept the bolt.
I also had a long talk with the calibrator on Tivo's. He confirmed what I figured out on my own.
Tablo Video looks as good as Series 3. I can sell the Series 3 with lifetime for a $100. So net is $150.

Tablo is fanless and 0 noise too.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

ggieseke said:


> Please take the electricity cost arguments elsewhere like the Post Testing Area or even the Coffee House. I know it's traditional to take threads way off-topic here, but it's out of control.
> 
> The Upgrade Center isn't the place for this kind of p*ssing match.


Other folks went down that rat hole. All I started with was an old TIVO that used 30 watts. Then folks questioned my reasoning. They can fight it elsewhere. Seems like, they like to do that.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

Just to give folks an idea of size of these alternatives.

I really really wanted the Shield TV to work. But the limitations of watching "delayed" put me over the edge.

And before folks baulk at the drive, neither Tablo or Plex (as far as I know) constantly record, like a Tivo does.
But some folks would call that a missing feature too, in that you can turn on the TV and say, oh I wish I had that recorded from the start and in rare cases it already is on the TIVO.
Only if you left it on the correct channel and it was less than 30 minutes. But I would have that turned off on a modern Tivo any ways. To expensive to run for the once in a blue moon it pays off.
So Tablo/Plex has much less pounding on the drive. That SSD is also a very good one. And Tablo's can be purchased with Solid State Drive built in.

I would not expect a cheap flash drive stick to hold up.

You can also get a Tablo USB Tuner (OEM of WinTV one shown in photo). That probably does work fine on Shield TV. But the total cost is starting to approach Tivo (albeit a much better one in many respects). Shield TV is due for an upgrade this year too.

What I really wish is there was an option for an Apple TV to have a "local DVR" like Shield TV (attempts to do). I'd buy that in a heartbeat and I'd be willing to pay $500 for it.
Assuming it wasn't a watt hog.

Also note lifetime Tablo Guide stays with user, not the hardware.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

Thread ignored, troll plonked.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

stile99 said:


> Thread ignored, troll plonked.


Good to know.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

So in the end you spent $150 (net, assuming you sell the old Tivo) to save $3-$4/month?


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

ncbill said:


> So in the end you spent $150 (net, assuming you sell the old Tivo) to save $3-$4/month?


Yeah. That's a no brainer. Pays for itself in 3 years. Sooner if electricity keeps going up. I've bought plenty of things that have much longer ROI than that.

It's no different than paying monthly for say lifetime vs monthly. Plenty of folks opt for lifetime for the long term.

Tablo is a more flexible DVR than a Tivo. You don't need one for each TV. One device feeds all TV's and mobile devices. With no restrictions. Quieter than a Tivo. I never have to pay for the guide again if I upgrade again in the future. New automatic commercial removal coming. Don't even need to push a button. We'll see how well that works.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

mswlogo said:


> I never have to pay for the guide again if I upgrade again in the future.


This feature alone is enough to make me switch to Tablo the next time my TiVo dies. I'm not paying for any more lifetime subscriptions or transfer fees.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

zombiephysicist said:


> Interface on all cloud services is awful. That they FORCE you to watch commercials is unacceptable. While I'm not against the concept, every single implementation that is tried keeps me running back to TiVo.
> 
> Netflix does a decent job but finding anything on it is awful. Their recommendations are like they are from my worst enemy trying to torture me with selections. The ability to find live TV type media on there would be a nightmare as even now, finding things on there is just awful.
> 
> I keep an open mind, but so far, all the companies have made me hug my TiVo more and more.


??? I am not forced to watch any commercials with Philo. With all my cloud DVR recordings I can quickly go past the commercials.
My entire reason for switching to watching broadcast content from streaming was to one, have better video quality, and two, avoid commercials. 
And I do avoid commercials on everything I watch, except for a few shows on Hulu commercial free. Like Greys Anatomy, where I see a fifteen second commercial prior to the show.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Well those would be motivating factors for many folks, and you wouldn't have to be complaining about a TiVo using just 30 W.
> 
> But partly because you have a gas dryer, so you're substituting gas costs for electricity costs. And for humid climates such as where we live, setting the AC to 78 is unbearable because it doesn't take enough moisture out.


I run a de-humidifier to help with my Heat Pump. It has made a huge difference in my electric bill, since I don't need the AC on as much.

And then with TiVos at 20 or 30 watts? It doesn't sound like much, but all those devices add up. I was surprised how much lower my electric bill was, when I had my main TV setup down for several months. My electric bills were several dozen dollars lower each month. By not having those 24+ devices plugged in and being used daily.

So now with better managing the devices I have connected, and also using a FALD UHD TV for primary viewing, along with using a de-humidifer.
Instead of my electric bills running between $175 and $225, they are now between $100 and $150.


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