# Lifetime Service again?



## twassel (Feb 20, 2006)

According to this thread, lifetime is available again, temporarily, along with the new pricing structure: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/08/tivo-temporarily-reinstates-400-lifetime-subscription-for-serie/

I haven't seen an official post yet. TivoPony, can you clarify? I have an S3 (already lifetime) with an S2 (nearing end of 1 year free service when I transferred my lifetime to the S3.) If I understand correctly, I can now buy another S3 or TivoHD and get lifetime service for $399 again, yes? (Is this an upgrade of the S2, or can I just buy a new unit, purchase lifetime, and continue paying annually for the S2? Confusion reigns supreme.)


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

Wow, just posted on engadget only like an hour ago.

I'm sure this will make some very happy.


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## TiivoDog (Feb 14, 2007)

TivoPony, I would also like if you could provide confirmation to the Engadget post, which I just read before popping over here, as well as clarity around what you can & can't do..... I've read the Engadget article a few times, however I am not clear if this means I can only upgrade an S2 with Lifetime to a S3/HD or if it means I can upgrade my S2 on a plan to a an S3/HD and purchase Lifetime at the same time.

Also, what is the 'loophole' Engadget is referencing out of curiousity??? Any help would be much appreciated by me, as well as the many readers of this forum!!

=============

Edit: The Gizmodo article tends to make it a bit more clear as the $399 Lifetime option is for an existing customer, who buys another/new Tivo and then activates that unit (No transfers) - this would work for me with 2 of my Tivo's that are not yet Lifetime as they just came off their free year after the S3 purchase with Lifetime transfer.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...plans-brings-back-lifetime-service-320185.php


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Wow, $399 this time around?


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

Straight from Tivo's website:
"TiVo Package, Product Lifetime service
Includes a Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service which covers the life of the TiVo DVR you buy  not the life of the subscriber. The Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR in case of ownership transfer.
You must be an existing registered account holder with a Qualifying Subscription pursuant to TiVos Multi-Service Discount Agreement to be eligible for purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription.
This is a limited time offer available from November 8, 2007 until February 13, 2008. TiVo reserves the right to terminate this offer at anytime, for any reason.
Money Back Guarantee applies only to initial activations if canceled within 30 days and DVR is returned for a full refund.
No refunds for cancellations, except as permitted under 30 day Money Back Guarantee.
A subscription to the TiVo service is required and the TiVo box will not work without a paid subscription to the TiVo service. That means that if you choose to cancel the subscription you are purchasing today, the box will no longer work."


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## twassel (Feb 20, 2006)

Goober, thanks for the info, but I'll admit I'm still confused. See my question in the original post. I have two Tivo's currently, one lifetime and one which is currently free but is or will be (I believe) technically a Tivo on multi-service discount. Can I: a) upgrade this second Tivo (my S2) to lifetime (as it is a single-tuner S2, not a terribly attractive alternative); b) purchase a new S3 or THD and get lifetime on it (preferable)? Or both? Or something else?


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## TiivoDog (Feb 14, 2007)

windracer said:


> Wow, $399 this time around?


Yeah - I originally paid $299 + another $199 to transfer from my S2 to my S3 for a total of approx $500..... While it is $100 more than the original Lifetime, it is $100 cheaper than what I went through to get my 3 S3 units up to Lifetime. All I know, is those folks selling units w/Lifetime on eBay shouldn't expect a premium until this upgrade option cools off after 1/2/08!!


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## A-1 (Mar 12, 2007)

So all of us loyal users are getting sKAroooood? We can get the cheaper service price, unless we purchase another tivo or made our purchase less than 30 days ago?


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

blacknoi said:


> Wow, just posted on engadget only like an hour ago.
> 
> I'm sure this will make some very happy.


It also makes some of us feel jilted and taken advantage of. Again.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

The people who did the lifetime transfer pretty much got screwed over by the new pricing:

1. Original S3 lifetime transfer - ($600 to $800) + $199 transfer = $799 to $999 for a lifetime S3, but you lost lifetime status on another box.

2. HD transfer - $299 + $199 = $498 = lifetime HD, but you lost lifetime status on another box.

* 3. Promo lifetime purchase = $399 + cost of S3/HD (currently $349/$254 respectively) = $748/$653 but you won't lose lifetime status on any old boxes. Lifetime S2's are currently going for around $200 to $500 on ebay while non lifetime S2's are pretty much worthless, which makes this better than the transfer deals.

* - Edit - TiVoPony confirmed you don't have to buy the box from TiVo to get the promotional pricing so this stands as is.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Although the new influx of lifetime Tivo supply will drive eBay prices down (eventually anyway).

In any case, I feel at the very least manipulated.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I wish they'd let me lifetime my current S3....


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I am glad to see Tivo do this. Also glad to see all those rude ten thousand posts people on here that were SO sure lifetime would never be offered again every time someone asked about it were WRONG. Maybe people will begin to realize they are wrong about many other of their opinions too now? Thanks Tivo, even if it is a bit expensive.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

dig_duggler said:


> In any case, I feel at the very least manipulated.


Yeah, you bought a brand new, state-of-the-art, shiny S3 a year ago, so that means Tivo can't change their lifetime policies since you didn't get the exact same offer


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TexasAg said:


> Yeah, you bought a brand new, state-of-the-art, shiny S3 a year ago, so that means Tivo can't change their lifetime policies since you didn't get the exact same offer


Considering the wording in the e-mail and video sent out promoting the original lifetime transfer used the words "once in a lifetime offer", yeah I think he (and I) have the right to feel manipulated. Basically at this point TiVo is about as believable as a used car salesman when talking about their "last chance" offers.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

morac said:


> Considering the wording in the e-mail and video sent out promoting the original lifetime transfer used the words "once in a lifetime offer", yeah I think he (and I) have the right to feel manipulated. Basically at this point TiVo is about as believable as a used car salesman when talking about their "last chance" offers.


The original offer was correct (and it still is correct). That was a one-time offer to transfer your lifetime service to a new box. They've done it once for the S3 and once for the THD. It hasn't been repeated for the S3.

Over 14 months later, Tivo comes out with a deal that says you can spend $400 to get an independent (non-transferred) lifetime service if you buy a new S3/THD. It's not a transfer offer.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TiVoPony posted an official pricing thread.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

morac said:


> Considering the wording in the e-mail and video sent out promoting the original lifetime transfer used the words "once in a lifetime offer", yeah I think he (and I) have the right to feel manipulated. Basically at this point TiVo is about as believable as a used car salesman when talking about their "last chance" offers.


+1


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

dig_duggler said:


> In any case, I feel at the very least manipulated.





morac said:


> yeah I think he (and I) have the right to feel manipulated.


Folks so easily manipulated clearly need a Tivo. That way, they can skip all those evil manipulating commercials...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TexasAg said:


> That way, they can skip all those evil manipulating commercials...


I already do.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

morac said:


> I already do.


Catch 22 - commercials or Tivo...


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

TexasAg said:


> The original offer was correct (and it still is correct). That was a one-time offer to transfer your lifetime service to a new box. They've done it once for the S3 and once for the THD. It hasn't been repeated for the S3.
> 
> Over 14 months later, Tivo comes out with a deal that says you can spend $400 to get an independent (non-transferred) lifetime service if you buy a new S3/THD. It's not a transfer offer.


And now they've done it twice for the s2.

This certainly can be rationalized by anyone who wants to. Technically it's not the same offer. And technically Cliff's answer from Cheers when he was on Jeopardy was correct (I may have missed a lot of people with that). The original s3 transfer offer was deceptive and indicated this was your only chance for lifetime service for a HD capable Tivo through Jan 31. If you want lifetime on your series 3, cough up the money for a box now or you won't get it. And then it was magically extended as prices continued to drop on the series 3. And from reports, it still exists. And then an offer came for the Tivo HD. And now an even _better_ offer is announced to take advantage of lifetime.

This is a great deal for someone wanting a lifetime S3 or TivoHD. However, any marketing (like in store demos that indicated MRV worked on S3 when it didnt), any offers from Tivo that are 'last chance', any talks of a dongle that will fix SDV that will be there before it is 'widely deployed' just depends on semantics at this point, not good faith efforts.


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## cxc273 (Sep 10, 2007)

I think it's great that TiVo brought lifetime back, but $399 seems like a lot of money to me up front, especially since you need to buy new hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my TiVo and greatly prefer the TiVo interface to what's offered by cable and satellite companies, but the financial reality of it all for me is that it may be less expensive to either add a second DVR and pay $10 per month or switch to a different DVR provider.

Our other house uses Dish Network, and though I'm certainly not enamored with its HD DVR user interface, it's easier on the wallet compared to the cost of cable and a high definition TiVo DVR with lifetime service. (My current house uses an expanded S2 with lifetime with standard cable on an SD television).


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## gimmay (Feb 28, 2002)

cxc273 said:


> I think it's great that TiVo brought lifetime back, but $399 seems like a lot of money to me up front, especially since you need to buy new hardware.


Well, it's still cheaper than what people paid to transfer their lifetime to the new S3/HD boxes. $199+$299...

$399 is bascially 4 years of service under their "$299 for 3 yrs service price of 8.31/month". My current tivo's have lasted like 6-7 years. It's a bargain!


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## mwwilliams10 (Aug 22, 2007)

Ticks me off - I bought a TivoHD 45 days ago with a 3 year prepaid. For $100 more, I would have taken the lifetime.

This sickens me.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gimmay said:


> $399 is bascially 4 years of service under their "$299 for 3 yrs service price of 8.31/month". My current tivo's have lasted like 6-7 years. It's a bargain!


So I guess the next lifetime offer will be 4 years from now.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

dig_duggler said:


> If you want lifetime on your series 3, cough up the money for a box now or you won't get it. And then it was magically extended as prices continued to drop on the series 3. And from reports, it still exists. And then an offer came for the Tivo HD. And now an even _better_ offer is announced to take advantage of lifetime.


The only way you could get lifetime on an S3 one year ago was to transfer it. Up until today, the only way you could get lifetime on a THD was to transfer it. Now you can buy a new lifetime on new S3s/THDs.

It's almost like technology gets cheaper and better deals come along. Amazing, huh?


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Remember the lifetime gift card ebay fiasco? How much were they going for last year $700? $800? Talk about making a bad bet. First the transfers and now this.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

While I like lifetimes subscriptions, the $399 price is to much. I paid $299 almost 4 years ago and thought that was to much. I think I may stick with the $6.95 a month I am currently paying on my S3.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

In retrospect, paying for lifetime service on a Series 2 within the past two years, with HDTV on the immediate horizon, probably was not a good idea.

Buying lifetime now for a Series 3 is probably a better idea, because the United States is highly unlikely to be upgrading from current HDTV standards for at least a decade. The inability of Series 3 TiVos to handle SDV channels is a real concern -- but there does seem to be a hardware fix on the horizon, so it *should* work out OK.

I have two TiVo HDs on lifetime (one free transfer and one $199 transfer) and one on the $6.95 MRV discount plan, and I'm happy with that. I won't switch from the $6.95 MRV discount as long as it remains grandfathered -- $399 buys 57 months of service, or nearly five years. By then, it'll be time to upgrade to the Series 5.


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## cxc273 (Sep 10, 2007)

I don't regret at all the lifetime I got for my S2 a few years back. It's certainly paid for itself in the time since.

However, given the pace of technological change, I don't know if I could guarantee that my TiVo HD or S3 box will really be viable five years from now, assuming I bought one of those units and purchased lifetime with it. I mean, in five years, could we be looking at online delivery of content versus traditional broadcast?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get a new S3 or HD and have been aching for one forever, but I think the lifetime fee is too high. I know some other folks might think it's a fair price, but I think it's too big a chunk of change considering what else is available in terms of time-shifting your television programming.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

TexasAg said:


> The only way you could get lifetime on an S3 one year ago was to transfer it. Up until today, the only way you could get lifetime on a THD was to transfer it. Now you can buy a new lifetime on new S3s/THDs.
> 
> It's almost like technology gets cheaper and better deals come along. Amazing, huh?


I suppose it _was_ foolish of me to take Tivo at it's word when it cancelled lifetime subscriptions and later offered limited time incentive offers that were eventually extended (and reportedly still exist).


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

I was THRILLED to be greeted with the news of the new holiday promotion on the Series 3 when I opened my laptop this morning!  I was reading the posts last night about it being the last day for the transfer to the Tivo HD. I closed my lap top and was very annoyed that I may have to buy a gift card on E-bay for the lifetime at the insane prices that the market bears. 

Now where does one buy a new series 3 locally? I really want the S3 as my Christmas present to myself for the look of the unit and larger disc space needed since I will now have the duel turner capabilities. My series 2 is always crammed full of stuff at the best resolution. 

I was at Costco this morning and they had the Tivo HD stacked high for $279 but no Series 3. Best Buy is through the roof at $799 and Comp USA is $599 where I would have to drive to DE but no sales tax. They are no longer sold at Circuit City. And speaking of the HD it has been leaked on the coupon sites that it will be $279 at Sears on Black Friday. Amazon direct is back up to $599. It was $549 yesterday. It is worse than booking airfare with the Amazon price structures. My favorite mail order electronics retailer - Crutchfield - does not even sell it. 

Buying a Tivo Series 3 with a lifetime subscription is the perfect holiday gift to buy for myself this holiday season. It is sure going to take the sting out of the outragous (don't get me started) gas prices that have just creeped over $3 a gallon this morning in the Philly market.


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## penguinboy (Sep 12, 2007)

soooooooooooo...I bought my Tivo HD 60 days ago at Best Buy. I'm a little annoyed that I missed this deal by a month... What's to stop me from going to Best Buy, buy a new THD, cancel my old service number, activate the new unit and get the deal, and bring the old one back as the new one, within the 30 day return window??? Other than being a bit shady, I have no problem doing that to a company that gives people who aren't even customers better deals than their current customers....


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

penguinboy said:


> I have no problem doing that to a company that gives people who aren't even customers better deals than their current customers....


Oh, TiVo's not the only company that does this, believe me. Cell phone companies do this all the time. So do magazines -- much better deals for new subscribers than current ones.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

penguinboy said:


> soooooooooooo...I bought my Tivo HD 60 days ago at Best Buy. I'm a little annoyed that I missed this deal by a month... What's to stop me from going to Best Buy, buy a new THD, cancel my old service number, activate the new unit and get the deal, and bring the old one back as the new one, within the 30 day return window??? Other than being a bit shady, I have no problem doing that to a company that gives people who aren't even customers better deals than their current customers....


You mean other than the fact that each Tivo unit is individually marked on the box and the unit with a unique 16-digit alphanumeric identifier?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TheGreenHornet said:


> Now where does one buy a new series 3 locally? I really want the S3 as my Christmas present to myself for the look of the unit and larger disc space needed since I will now have the duel turner capabilities. My series 2 is always crammed full of stuff at the best resolution.


Why do you have to find it locally...? Buy it online, they're $399 right here in this forum...

http://store.tivocommunity.com/merc...tore_Code=EA&Product_Code=2777&Category_Code=


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

I am so glad I held off calling Tivo and try to get a transfer off of my Series 2. It was my gut instinct that another holiday promotion would come down the pike. I did not think it would be so soon as today. I am so glad I resisted the impulse of trying to win a gift card on E-bay. 

I had read that Tivo lost over 145,000 subscibers as of 08/31/07. I also read there was a high inventory on the series 3 in the warehouses. Then there is the competition from the cable companies with their generic DVRs. Plus. we all know it is going to be a very difficult holiday season for sales in general. 

If I were the "big cheese" at Tivo with all those business factors staring me in the face - I too would offer creative promotions to my customer base to retain customers and grow my business revenue with sales of boxes and subscriptions. If I saw all those gift cards being sold on E-Bay from $400-$800 - I would realize that there is still a huge demand for the lifetime subscription - I would be losing a ton of additional revenue. Here is an opportunity for Tivo to increase box sales and spread out the lifetimes for $400 over their reported 4 years. 

I have to agree that all the other previous transfer promotions since the end of the lifetime offer in the spring of 06 are different than this promotion. Many chose those promotions as their best Tivo offer and received a free year of service on the old Tivo box. Plus Tivo appears to take great strides to disclose all their terms of promotion and service in a very clear precise language. To take advantage of this promotion you have to now pay $399 plus the additional box. 

It is a different economy now 18 months later. I do not know how anyone can ***** about Tivo "not keeping their word" about lifetime subscriptions from statements made back in 06. 

From a business standpoint, I think this an excellent holiday promotion to increase sales and reward your long term customers by offering an incentive to upgrade to next level of new equipment.

LONG LIVE TIVO!


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## s44 (Sep 12, 2007)

I suppose this won't work in allowing service at another house for the same person?


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Wow, gee, thanks TiVo.
Makes me feel real good about the 3-year prepaid I plunked down cash for six months ago.
Why do I feel like I'm getting it from behind again? Way to go, screwing your customers.


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## penguinboy (Sep 12, 2007)

TexasAg said:


> You mean other than the fact that each Tivo unit is individually marked on the box and the unit with a unique 16-digit alphanumeric identifier?


And how will they know that at Best Buy? Nowhere on the receipt does it have the serial number and I have my old box.....


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## IsItLive (Apr 3, 2007)

bizzy said:


> Wow, gee, thanks TiVo.
> Makes me feel real good about the 3-year prepaid I plunked down cash for six months ago.
> Why do I feel like I'm getting it from behind again? Way to go, screwing your customers.


Sigh. I'm in the same boat. I would gladly have paid 399 for lifetime service when I bought the tivo s3, but it wasn't available. I paid 299 for 3 years which at the time was advertised as "a deal!", but is now the standard price. It would be nice if I they would reward their early adopters by offering credit for pre-paying for 3 years against upgrading to lifetime. I feel a bit jilted.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

penguinboy said:


> And how will they know that at Best Buy? Nowhere on the receipt does it have the serial number and I have my old box.....


Do you think someone might open the box and check? You don't need the serial number on the receipt. The serial number is on the box and on the Tivo unit. All they need to do is open the box and compare the number on the Tivo unit to the number on the box. And don't think they won't. I've seen folks open boxes that were factory-sealed to make sure the numbers matched up.


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## twassel (Feb 20, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> Why do you have to find it locally...? Buy it online, they're $399 right here in this forum...
> 
> http://store.tivocommunity.com/merc...tore_Code=EA&Product_Code=2777&Category_Code=


 That's the price after rebate, which makes it more expensive than Amazon, which has it for $537, which comes to $337 after the rebate: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240301&pf_rd_i=507846

[EDIT] I stand corrected. Amazon increased the price to $599 (as another poster noted). The $537 price is from a vendor through Amazon who adds tax and shipping to get to just about the same point. Damn. I should have bought last week (my father took my advice and already did, even before the lifetime promotion. Smart guy, my dad.)


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

To those of you whining - have you never bought consumer electronics before? Rebates and special offers come and go all the time. Their purpose is to sell new product or get new customers - almost never, if ever, to reduce costs to existing customers.

I'm surprised people even want to purchase lifetime subs with the SDV uncertainty at this time.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> I suppose it _was_ foolish of me to take Tivo at it's word when it cancelled lifetime subscriptions and later offered limited time incentive offers that were eventually extended (and reportedly still exist).


This is also a time-limited offer.

I have never seen a bigger bunch of whiners than everyone here everytime TiVo changes the pricing.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

penguinboy said:


> soooooooooooo...I bought my Tivo HD 60 days ago at Best Buy. I'm a little annoyed that I missed this deal by a month... What's to stop me from going to Best Buy, buy a new THD, cancel my old service number, activate the new unit and get the deal, and bring the old one back as the new one, within the 30 day return window??? Other than being a bit shady, I have no problem doing that to a company that gives people who aren't even customers better deals than their current customers....


This lifetime deal is only valid for current customers.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

IsItLive said:


> Sigh. I'm in the same boat. I would gladly have paid 399 for lifetime service when I bought the tivo s3, but it wasn't available. I paid 299 for 3 years which at the time was advertised as "a deal!", but is now the standard price. It would be nice if I they would reward their early adopters by offering credit for pre-paying for 3 years against upgrading to lifetime. I feel a bit jilted.


If that was your first TiVo, you couldn't have taken advantage of this deal as it currently is anyway.


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

twassel said:


> That's the price after rebate, which makes it more expensive than Amazon, which has it for $537, which comes to $337 after the rebate: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240301&pf_rd_i=507846
> 
> [EDIT] I stand corrected. Amazon increased the price to $599 (as another poster noted). The $537 price is from a vendor through Amazon who adds tax and shipping to get to just about the same point. Damn. I should have bought last week (my father took my advice and already did, even before the lifetime promotion. Smart guy, my dad.)


I am with you! I saw the $537 and jumped at the price - then threw the item in the cart. Then I realized it was not sold by Amazon - and pulled it out. I prefer to purchase from Amazon over their other sellers.

Maybe tomorrow it will be sold by Amazon at a better price. Plus, Black Friday is coming and Cyber Monday follows so there may be a few good prices to be had. That is, if I can resist the temptation of waiting until then to get the series 3. We shall see tomorrow how I feel about maybe going to a local retailer to buy the S3 at $599. I have to get through tonight with my single tuner S2 by watching CSI/Without A Trace in HD live (commercials and all) on CBS and record Scrubs in standard def on NBC. With the S3 I have the duel turner and all three are in HD.

Kudos to your dad on the great deal!


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

MickeS said:


> This is also a time-limited offer.
> 
> I have never seen a bigger bunch of whiners than everyone here everytime TiVo changes the pricing.


Awesome. Care to make a large wager it doesn't expire on the listed date?


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## penguinboy (Sep 12, 2007)

TexasAg said:


> Do you think someone might open the box and check? You don't need the serial number on the receipt. The serial number is on the box and on the Tivo unit. All they need to do is open the box and compare the number on the Tivo unit to the number on the box. And don't think they won't. I've seen folks open boxes that were factory-sealed to make sure the numbers matched up.


Let me reiterate- I have the original box that matches the old TivoHD- so even if by some unfathomable chance the minimum wage slave at Best Buy elects to compare the numbers, they'll match... So that's not a problem. The big question is will the Tivo mothership allow me to cancel one account and then add a new one and consider me a new customer? If not, I can have my wife sign up using her credit card. As long as they don't say it's the same billing address, I should be all set..... Even then, we can say it's an apt or something.... Like I said, I know it's shady, but I've been screwed a lot lately by my technology (the xbox 360 currently in for service for the past 2 months not withstanding) and I just need a "win."


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## jm1fd (Oct 13, 2007)

penguinboy said:


> Let me reiterate- I have the original box that matches the old TivoHD- so even if by some unfathomable chance the minimum wage slave at Best Buy elects to compare the numbers, they'll match...


I'm pretty sure they scanned the serial number when they sold me my HD unit, as well as when I returned it. You'll probably have to put old Tivo in new box.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> Awesome. Care to make a large wager it doesn't expire on the listed date?


This particular offer? Since every other offer has expired when they said it would (with some individual exceptions, as I understand it), I don't know why this wouldn't.

Also not sure why this is relevant - if it's not worth it to you, don't buy it.


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## dubluv (Mar 3, 2006)

if i bought my 3rd unit (tivoHD) in august, and its on the multi service pricing, will i be able to buy the lifetime for this tivoHD?


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## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

penguinboy said:


> soooooooooooo...I bought my Tivo HD 60 days ago at Best Buy. I'm a little annoyed that I missed this deal by a month... What's to stop me from going to Best Buy, buy a new THD, cancel my old service number, activate the new unit and get the deal, and bring the old one back as the new one, within the 30 day return window??? Other than being a bit shady, I have no problem doing that to a company that gives people who aren't even customers better deals than their current customers....


If you cancel your tivo after 60 days, won't you have to pay a termination fee to tivo? Why don't you just call their customer service number and try to get them to let you upgrade your tivo to lifetime before coming up with schemes like this?


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## BarryD99 (Mar 30, 2002)

"Friends Pay List" is what a vendor told me years ago. It's too bad that Tivo's early adapters and friends always seem to be paying more than the new customers Tivo is trying to attract.

And for that matter, how is it that Tivo thinks that they can prosper by getting something less than $3.00/month from Comcast customers (who won't be adding to Tivo's revenue stream with Amazon and/or Rhapsody commissions)?

How about this for a totally different approach.
Tivo sells the box at cost, charges $2.99/mo, but the customer has to buy $15.00/mo worth of Rhapsody or Unbox services.


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## jrod9707 (Oct 14, 2007)

This question is for anyone who bought the lifetime subscription and their Tivo's failed. What did Tivo do since they say the subscription is for the unit that the subscription was paid for. I know they say if you pay the $49 transfer for a refurb the 3 yr will transfer but as we all know what a company says and then does later can be a big difference.Any horror stories for the S1 or S2?


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## drhump (Oct 13, 2003)

this gives me tiredhead.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

I have to say, I don't understand why people transfered their lifetimes before anyways.

For example, I kept my S2 around with its lifetime because then I get the multiservice discount on my S3.

Upgrading to a lifetime on my S3 for 400 is probably a bad investment. I can pay $6.99 a month for (let's see.... TVM makes this complicated but I think I remember the equation....) 5.5 years (assuming I took the $400 and invested it at 6% and paid the monthly fee with it).

So the only way paying $400 for a lifetime makes sense (assuming you have 1 lifetime already) is if you plan to keep that 2nd box for MORE than 5.5 years.

If you're paying the full 13 a month, then it only takes about 33 months before you get value (a little less than 3 years).

But if you're doing a multi-year contract and you get the minimum (single unit) price of 8.51 a month then it takes 53 months (almost 4 and a half years) to get your money back!

Does anyone here actually expect the S3 to still be relevant in 4+ years?

I've had my S2 for 5 years. But the S2 is an analog device that doesn't lean on Cable Cards to work. I can't see the S3 having that kind of longevity.

edit: I lsot track of the point I was originally making in all of this...

which is that the $200 lifetime transfer takes over 30 months before it saves you any money and it costs you the usage of your S2 after 1 years. It was never a good deal UNLESS your S2 had stoped functioning completely and you were salvaging the lifetime before TiVo realized it.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> which is that the $200 lifetime transfer takes over 30 months before it saves you any money and it costs you the usage of your S2 after 1 years. It was never a good deal UNLESS your S2 had stoped functioning completely and you were salvaging the lifetime before TiVo realized it.


or you plan to stop using your S2 within the next year as you transition your TV sets to HD! I think that applies to a lot of people.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> or you plan to stop using your S2 within the next year as you transition your TV sets to HD! I think that applies to a lot of people.


It doesn't matter if you stop using it. As long as it is plugged in and synching with TiVo periodically, your multiservice discount applies.

I use my S2 almost stricly for recording shows I intend to rip. I don't need my back catalog of cooking shows to be digital or HD. So it works great for that.

I also use it for streaming MP3's. HD seems pretty unnecessary for audio.

As long as your S2 still works, it really is hard to cost justify transfering your lifetime or purchasing a new lifetime. The money just doesn't add up for it.

edit: The frustrating thing to me is that I got the full value out of my S2 lifetime purchase in a little over 2 years because I paid 250 for it in a time when the monthly rate was about 10. That's a reasonable ROI. If you look at it, I've saved aprox 200-250 over the lifetime of my S2 by making that decision.

Alternatly, if my break even point were 5.5 years, i'd still be waiting another 6 months to break even and it would take an additional 2 years before I hit that 200-250 return mark. Which means after 7.5 years i'd net 250 on a 400 investment. That is a TERRIBLE rate of return.


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## Brad Bishop (Sep 11, 2001)

When I heard about this deal I was almost ready to jump on board. I think the Tivo Series 3 looks pretty slick. Then I thought about it:

I used to have 2 DirecTiVos (bought 2001).
Then when I moved I ended up not having DirecTV so I got 2 Series 2.
Then I got an HDTV so I just used the cable company's DVR with hopes of TiVo getting on it.
Then I saw my cable bill (no premiums, just what most of us would call the basics basic+extended+some family tier) and with the HDTV + DVR + cable service + the fees I was paying a little over $92/month. That didn't include internet and my TV was off most of the time because there wasn't anything to watch (the crappy on-screen cable guide from comcast didn't help as I couldn't limit my channels and didn't want to go scanning through 500 channels to find something).

Anyway, I went back to basic (just the locals) + AppleTV and just use a QAM tuner for my local HDs. It's been working out pretty well. It's cheaper for me to just buy the odd TV shows off iTunes than to pay ~$100/month to Comcast (and it's not their fault nothing is on for me - they're just the carrier).

Anyway, this offer made me think, "Do I want to go back to doing the cable thing? Increased costs? screwing with the cable cards and the nickel and diming for stupid crap on my bills?" And that's what killed it - along with the fact that if you add up the stupid boxes I've bought over the past 7 years it's pretty dumb just to watch TV when there's not much on.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> It doesn't matter if you stop using it. As long as it is plugged in and synching with TiVo periodically, your multiservice discount applies.
> 
> I use my S2 almost stricly for recording shows I intend to rip. I don't need my back catalog of cooking shows to be digital or HD. So it works great for that.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point at all.

Suppose I have a lifetime S2. I'm happy with one TiVo. I'm planning to get an HD set in the next year, and I'll need a TiVoHD once I do that. I'll use the TiVOHD for at least 3-4 years. I buy the TiVOHD now and transfer the lifetime. My total payments to TiVo for service for those 3-4 years is $199 (and it remains at $199 even if I keep on using the TiVoHD after those years).

My total payment for 3 years under your scheme is 3 * 12 * $7 = $252. And I have to pay for service on the TiVoHD if I want to keep on using it beyond the 3 years. And it removes the option of Ebaying my lifetime service for good money after those 3 years. I lose big with your scheme.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

Grakthis said:


> Does anyone here actually expect the S3 to still be relevant in 4+ years?


Umm, the transfer of lifetime for the S3 last year and the THD this year cost $199, not $399. That makes it 28 months to break even (and I bought my S3 14 months ago). I think I'll still be using the S3 next December.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TexasAg said:


> Umm, the transfer of lifetime for the S3 last year and the THD this year cost $199, not $399. That makes it 28 months to break even (and I bought my S3 14 months ago). I think I'll still be using the S3 next December.


That equation doesn't take into effect the loss of any resale value of the ex-lifetime S1/S2 you had. The current market rate for a lifetime S2 ranges between $200 to $500. I'm not sure what it would be for a S1.


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## brianj20 (Feb 15, 2007)

Grakthis said:


> I have to say, I don't understand why people transfered their lifetimes before anyways.
> 
> For example, I kept my S2 around with its lifetime because then I get the multiservice discount on my S3.
> 
> ...


Since a Tivo with lifetime service doesn't depreciate, paying for it is a good investment.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

morac said:


> That equation doesn't take into effect the loss of any resale value of the ex-lifetime S1/S2 you had. The current market rate for a lifetime S2 ranges between $200 to $500. I'm not sure what it would be for a S1.


Except the loss of resale value of my old S1 is more than made up for by the resale value of my new S3.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point at all.
> 
> Suppose I have a lifetime S2. I'm happy with one TiVo. I'm planning to get an HD set in the next year, and I'll need a TiVoHD once I do that. I'll use the TiVOHD for at least 3-4 years. I buy the TiVOHD now and transfer the lifetime. My total payments to TiVo for service for those 3-4 years is $199 (and it remains at $199 even if I keep on using the TiVoHD after those years).
> 
> My total payment for 3 years under your scheme is 3 * 12 * $7 = $252. And I have to pay for service on the TiVoHD if I want to keep on using it beyond the 3 years. And it removes the option of Ebaying my lifetime service for good money after those 3 years. I lose big with your scheme.


I assumed people here understood TVM, but it looks like I was wrong. Everyone responding to me is basically not understanding what TVM is.

Time Value of Money:

A dollar today is worth more than a dollar in 2 years.

The equation is not what you want it to be.... I did the math for you up there already. Read it. I promise you, I did the math right.

If you take $199 and invest it right now at 6% and you subtract 7 dollars each month to make your TiVo payment then it will take over 30 months before you run out of money. 30 months is 2 and a half-years.

Every month after that, you make a profit on the CURRENT value of that annuity. So if you kept your TivoHD for another year and a half after that (for a total of 4 years since you transfered) then you will have made a profit of about $120 (this is done in my head... Id idn't bother to break out the calculator for this, so it could be off by as much as 10% either direction).

So, basically, If you keep your TiVoHD for 4 years then by paying the transfer you are essentially making a profit of $120 in exchange for losing service on your S1 or S2.

To me, that's not worth it. $120 is a miniscule, there are too many things that could go wrong and I'd happily pay $120 to keep my S2 functional for the next 4 years.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

TexasAg said:


> Umm, the transfer of lifetime for the S3 last year and the THD this year cost $199, not $399. That makes it 28 months to break even (and I bought my S3 14 months ago). I think I'll still be using the S3 next December.


399 is the price of a NEW lifetime, not the transfer. Which is what I was discussing in the first part of my post.

And it's not 28 months. See my explanation above for TVM.

And don't forget the value lost on the S1 or S2 that you transfered it from (and I don't mean the lifetime... that value remains because it is transfered... I mean the functional value of a working TiVo).


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

brianj20 said:


> Since a Tivo with lifetime service doesn't depreciate, paying for it is a good investment.


Ah, that's actually a fair point.

When buying a NEW unit and adding the lifetime, we have to consider the RESALE value of that lifetime service.

WHat is the going value on ebay? Aprox 200-250?

You still have to TVM that from the point of sale.... and you have to assume that resale value remains for the duration.

Of course, that assumes you will ever actually sell it. Which seems unlikely. More likely that you will transfer it to the next unit you buy.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> I assumed people here understood TVM, but it looks like I was wrong. Everyone responding to me is basically not understanding what TVM is.


Nope! I understand very well "TVM". But you didn't read my scenario. I was talking about replacing an S2 with a TiVoHD, not adding a second TiVo. I have absolutely no wish to pay $120 to keep an S2 functional for 4 years (using your figures) in the scenario. All I need is a TiVo that handles HD - the cheapest way for that is transfer lifetime INCLUDING TVM.

The same thing applies in reality to my decision to transfer lifetime service. I've got plenty of total recording power; what I need to do is replace an SD TiVo with an TiVoHD so I can drive a second HD TV.

And it's rather ridiculous to be talking about TVM driving your decision ($25 over 4 years) and saying at the same time $120 is a miniscule amount.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> I have absolutely no wish to pay $120 to keep an S2 functional for 4 years (using your figures) in the scenario.


Same here. I have absolutely no use for a 7-year old S1, esp. since I have Fios TV (and can only get a handful of analog channels).


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

TexasAg said:


> Same here. I have absolutely no use for a 7-year old S1, esp. since I have Fios TV (and can only get a handful of analog channels).


I haven't watched anything on the S1 I transferred my lifetime from since I got my TiVo HD. It's probably not even worth wasting the electricity on at this point.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> I have absolutely no wish to pay $120 to keep an S2 functional for 4 years (using your figures)


Well, there you go then. If the risk of your hardware lasting 4 years + keeping your S2 for 4 years is not worth $120, go for it.

I thought I made it clear in the math that I felt current TiVo hardware would not be valid for that long? Maybe not. My fault.



CrispyCritter said:


> And it's rather ridiculous to be talking about TVM driving your decision ($25 over 4 years) and saying at the same time $120 is a miniscule amount.


No. I will happily pay $120 for something of value (my S2). I will not pay $25 for NOTHING.

Edit: to be clear, I use my S2 quite a bit still. Not sure why others have stoped using their older machines... I guess the S1 lacks the networking stuff, so that makes some sense.


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## Stephen Tu (May 10, 1999)

Grakthis, there are several problems with your arguments.

- MSD is no longer available for $6.95/month if you don't have it already. Now only options besides lifetime are $9.95/month or $99/year. So all the time frames you calculated previously are going to be compressed some.

- Most of us don't see any huge reasons why a TivoHD won't be useful 5 years from now. The only reasons I can foresee making me want to switch to say the cable company DVR or some future Tivo model are SDV if Tivo doesn't come up with a solution for current boxes, VOD if selection was massively beefed up so that it became a compelling value. What do you see as making a TivoHD obsolete?

- At the end, resale value. 5 years from now, a lifetimed S2 is only going to be worth something if another transfer offer is around, which is unknown. Otherwise, by then not much market for a single tuner analog only device IMO. A lifetimed HD is more likely to have value, as long as Tivo the company is still around.

- Of course if you have a use for a subbed S2 it makes sense to keep lifetime on it & keep it around. But I don't see why you don't understand some of us have no use for keeping one around.

You mentioned:
"I use my S2 almost stricly for recording shows I intend to rip. I don't need my back catalog of cooking shows to be digital or HD."
- I don't rip shows, and if I wanted to why wouldn't I just record them on the HD, I could record off analog if wanted to save space.

"I also use it for streaming MP3's."
-I already have a TivoHD + Xbox 360 that can stream MP3s, why do I need to keep the S2 around for that?

My cable company is finally upgrading bandwidth in my area, soon I presumably will have digital simulcast on all channels. I record mostly HD, and have no real desire to record cruddy analog anymore.

As for xfer vs. new lifetime, economically likely it's best to Ebay the old & get a new one, otherwise it's akin to Tivo paying you $200 for it. Not the best price you can get at auction but saves you the trouble of doing the sale.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> Well, there you go then. If the risk of your hardware lasting 4 years + keeping your S2 for 4 years is not worth $120, go for it.


So I take it you are now admitting your original statement that sparked this debate was nonsense? _"It was never a good deal UNLESS your S2 had stoped functioning completely and you were salvaging the lifetime before TiVo realized it."_People have different needs than you do; that was the only point I was trying to make.

Note that the $120 for the 4 year S2 needs to be doubled. It costs about $30 per year in electricity to run a TiVo. I certainly won't be running any S2 not connected to a TV 4 years from now.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> So I take it you are now admitting your original statement that sparked this debate was nonsense?


No. Absolutly not. I am fairly sure you won't be able to use your S3 in 4 years. I don't think the technology will stay relevant that long.

But I can't exactly prove that to you, now can I? So if you think it's going to be relevant for 4 years, that's your risk. I think you're wrong.

edit: see below for how the math changes with the $99 a year deal and accounting for the electricity cost of the S2. It changes the timeperiod pretty dramatically and changes the conclusion. So yeah, once you factor that stuff in, it takes less than 2 years, and I feel pretty good about the S3 being relevant for 2 years.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Stephen Tu said:


> - MSD is no longer available for $6.95/month if you don't have it already. Now only options besides lifetime are $9.95/month or $99/year. So all the time frames you calculated previously are going to be compressed some.


WAHA?!? Are you serious? That's terrible! What a pain! You're right... that significantly changes the equation on transfering service!



Stephen said:


> - Most of us don't see any huge reasons why a TivoHD won't be useful 5 years from now. The only reasons I can foresee making me want to switch to say the cable company DVR or some future Tivo model are SDV if Tivo doesn't come up with a solution for current boxes, VOD if selection was massively beefed up so that it became a compelling value. What do you see as making a TivoHD obsolete?


Cable cards going obsolete + SDV + whatever new excuse the cable company invents to make us lease their boxes for premium content. Trust me... they are dreaming up new ways right now to get into your living room and replace anything they can with their own brand name.



Stephen said:


> - At the end, resale value. 5 years from now, a lifetimed S2 is only going to be worth something if another transfer offer is around, which is unknown. Otherwise, by then not much market for a single tuner analog only device IMO. A lifetimed HD is more likely to have value, as long as Tivo the company is still around.


As long as the HD Tivo technology is relevant...... which is the point I was making. I don't think it will be relevant for that long.

Remember, I included the timelines for breaking even for a reason. I didn't just say "it makes no sense." I said "it makes no sense BECAUSE it takes X years to break even and I don't think the TiVo S3 hardware will be relevant for that long."



Stephen said:


> - Of course if you have a use for a subbed S2 it makes sense to keep lifetime on it & keep it around. But I don't see why you don't understand some of us have no use for keeping one around.


I do see that. And I said as much in my post. I mentioned that with the transfer I was considering the value of keeping the old S2... if you do not value it, then obv that changes the math.



Stephen said:


> -I already have a TivoHD + Xbox 360 that can stream MP3s, why do I need to keep the S2 around for that?


For me, it's because I don't want me 360 on any more than it has to be. I am terrified of it overheating.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

EBWOP: to update it, at $99 a year your PV today of 3 years in service is 264.63, 4 years is 343.05 and 5 years is 417.02 with a rate of return of 6&#37;.

So let's say Keeping your S2 costs you $30 a year in electricity and let's say it has a risidual worth of $25 on Ebay.

Keeping the S2 costs you $25 + ($30)n1 + ($30)n2... etc.
The S3 costs you $99 + $99n1 + $99n2.... etc
Some costs are irrelevant because they are the same for both (buying S3, powering S3, etc).

Getting rid of the S2 costs you $200 and you have no monthly fees at that point.

So how many years does it take before Scenario A = $200?

The answer is right at about 18 months. Every year after that, you're profiting.

Man... that $99 a year price scheme is a beating over the 6.99 per month. Forcing you to pay up front costs you usage of that money plus it's more expensive.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

I guess I should redo the math with the $99 a year for buying a 2nd TiVo and getting a new lifetime on it......

If you already have a TiVo, paying $400 for a NEW lifetime on the NEW TiVo is a complete beating as it takes almost a full 5 years to break even (5 years nets you a savings of $40).

But, if it maintains it's value and you resell it on ebay, you net another $250 or so on top of that. Which is a nice value.

If you transfer it to your next unit, you're right back to needing another X years to recoup your cost.

So I guess the real answer here is that transfering a subscription probably *is* a good value but purchasing a 2nd lifetime is not.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> No. Absolutly not. I am fairly sure you won't be able to use your S3 in 4 years. I don't think the technology will stay relevant that long.
> 
> But I can't exactly prove that to you, now can I? So if you think it's going to be relevant for 4 years, that's your risk. I think you're wrong.
> 
> edit: see below for how the math changes with the $99 a year deal and accounting for the electricity cost of the S2. It changes the timeperiod pretty dramatically and changes the conclusion. So yeah, once you factor that stuff in, it takes less than 2 years, and I feel pretty good about the S3 being relevant for 2 years.


Where does 4 years enter into it? Your original analysis was just plain wrong, wrong, wrong for a replacement scenario. At $7 per month, breakeven was always at 30-31 months, much less than 3 years.

At $10 per month (or 99 per year) breakeven is of course even less. But it was always a good deal for those replacing TiVos.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Grakthis said:


> So I guess the real answer here is that transfering a subscription probably *is* a good value but purchasing a 2nd lifetime is not.


especially when you have a granfathered 6.95 month to month you can transfer to the HD TiVo. then it is 399/6.95 or 57 months


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> Where does 4 years enter into it? Your original analysis was just plain wrong, wrong, wrong for a replacement scenario. At $7 per month, breakeven was always at 30-31 months, much less than 3 years.


I didn't say 4 years. You did. Remember? You said you planned to use it for 3-4 years. So I used 4 years as the baseline for decision making.



CrispyCritter said:


> At $10 per month (or 99 per year) breakeven is of course even less. But it was always a good deal for those replacing TiVos.


IFF you're replacing a TiVo (getting rid of the old one) AND you expect the new one to be relevant over the break even period (30-31 months) then yes. But I said that from the very beginning, so I don't know why you're harping on it.

It's like I said "1+1 = 2 if you use the base 10 counting system" and you said "but what if you use base 2?!?!?!"

Uhhh.. I already said "if you use the base 10 counting system." Why are you harping on something I already covered?


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> IFF you're replacing a TiVo (getting rid of the old one) AND you expect the new one to be relevant over the break even period (30-31 months) then yes. But I said that from the very beginning, so I don't know why you're harping on it.





> As long as your S2 still works, it really is hard to cost justify transfering your lifetime or purchasing a new lifetime. The money just doesn't add up for it.





> It was never a good deal UNLESS your S2 had stoped functioning completely and you were salvaging the lifetime before TiVo realized it.


Again, you are contradicting yourself. You have admitted to a reasonable scenario where it makes sense to transfer (even with a working S2), and have denied twice that such a scenario exists.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> Again, you are contradicting yourself. You have admitted to a reasonable scenario where it makes sense to transfer (even with a working S2), and have denied twice that such a scenario exists.


Ok, if you want to keep quoting me out of context and pretend that that's the whole story, go for it. I'm not wasting any more of my time with someone who is intentionally misrepresenting what I said.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Grakthis said:


> Ok, if you want to keep quoting me out of context and pretend that that's the whole story, go for it. I'm not wasting any more of my time with someone who is intentionally misrepresenting what I said.


But your post 61 was directly addressing the issue of replacing an S2 with an TiVoHD (stopping use of the S2) and you said it wasn't worthwhile transferring.... There is no different context there! You may have wanted to say something else, but that's not what you said. I agree the point is moot now, so I'll drop it, but you really can't be upset at people reading what you wrote.


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## mdm (Feb 1, 2007)

I saw the hdgift url that let you buy a TivoHD with lifetime service, but I haven't seen anything to suggest an S3 can get lifetime service. Can somebody please post the procedure for this? The remote, extra space, and front panel seem worth the $100 difference to me.

Help?


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## mdm (Feb 1, 2007)

Is this still possible?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

If you are already a TiVo subscriber, you can purchase a Series 3 from any retailer and activate lifetime service on it for $399.

https://www3.tivo.com/store/plans.do


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## murryamorris (Feb 1, 2005)

twassel said:


> Goober, thanks for the info, but I'll admit I'm still confused. See my question in the original post. I have two Tivo's currently, one lifetime and one which is currently free but is or will be (I believe) technically a Tivo on multi-service discount. Can I: a) upgrade this second Tivo (my S2) to lifetime (as it is a single-tuner S2, not a terribly attractive alternative); b) purchase a new S3 or THD and get lifetime on it (preferable)? Or both? Or something else?


I have an S3 and an HD and the S3 was a lifetime transfer from one of my S2's last year. Tivo gave me the year free on the transferred S2 (which used to have the lifetime). My wife noticed today the Tivo said I had to renew my account because it was past due. So, I tried it online but Tivo listed $12.95 and wasn't giving me the MSD price ($10 I think if month to month). I called Tivo and the rep said it was weird it wasn't showing up as the multi service price so transferred me to billing (thought that was what I punched in). Anyway, the billing guy said I could put my newer HD (I had bought an HD this year to replace that S2) on lifetime for the $399. He did it over the phone and I've had this unit (bought from Costco) for a few months.

I guess you can still get lifetime but it's not cheap. With yearly MSD pricing it's about 4 years to pay off but my old lifetime from the S2 paid for itself even after transferring to the S3.


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