# So what happens now with late night TV?



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Spoilers about tonight's final Jay Leno show in the link

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/02/06/leno-bids-farewell-to-tonight-after-22-years/

So what happens now, a smooth transition to Jimmy Falon who is only 39? Or is there a Conan comeback or a move to get Letterman back?

Jay say he may be back on TV just not late night. And Jimmy was really negative to Leno for taking back over from Conan does that hurt the transition?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

on NBC, the Tonight Show moves back to New York City and will be hosted by Jimmy Fallon. There will be no comeback moves by Conan or to get Letterman.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

I don't remember Jimmy Fallon being negative towards Leno. Are you thinking of Jimmy Kimmel?


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

GoPackGo said:


> I don't remember Jimmy Fallon being negative towards Leno. Are you thinking of Jimmy Kimmel?


You're right my error.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I don't even remember Kimmel being negative towards Leno even though he has been a HUGE Letterman fan all along. Though I admit I don't watch full episodes of Kimmel much. (I record basically ALL of them, and watch a few funny snippets here and there.. and watch letterman though I have a zillion banked up and sometimes just listen to the audio.)


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

A good Leno "exit interview" video and story

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2014/02/05/jay-leno-farewell/5225665/


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

mattack said:


> I don't even remember Kimmel being negative towards Leno even though he has been a HUGE Letterman fan all along.


A good overview: http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/news/a...-jay-leno-feud-hes-acted-inappropriately.html

Though he evidently congratulated Jay today...


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

"Jimmy" becomes the average (mode) name for all 11:35pm talk-show hosts.


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## ewolfr (Feb 12, 2001)

mattack said:


> I don't even remember Kimmel being negative towards Leno even though he has been a HUGE Letterman fan all along. Though I admit I don't watch full episodes of Kimmel much.


http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...he-tonight-show-20140206,0,1146343,full.story



> When NBC returned you to the "Tonight Show," you were painted as the bad guy who took Conan O'Brien's job away. And a lot of the people attacking you were fellow entertainers, like David Letterman.
> 
> The thing with Dave is, he's funny. Please. We're comics. I take potshots all the time. Dave always had a punch line. Dave always put the joke first.
> 
> ...


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Boy, Fallon is really gonna have to be better on the Tonight Show than his Late Night tonight would indicate and surely they put a lot of effort into a show that all the people watching the last Jay Leno would see at least the beginning.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I wonder if Fallon will have the class to mention his predecessor in his first show, something that Leno did not do, and for which I've never forgiven him.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Leno didn't mention Carson? That was tacky and now Leno calls Carson the greatest ever.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

argicida said:


> Leno didn't mention Carson? That was tacky and now Leno calls Carson the greatest ever.


Correct, Leno made no mention of Carson.

At the time, Leno was being advised by the biggest b in the world, and I believe it was her call.

Fallon gets it. Lorne Michaels gets it. The same mistake won't happen on Fallon's first show, guaranteed.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

I'm more interested to see if Jimmy thanks Conan. (I've heard that it's because of Jimmy that the promos for his Tonight Show have what little trace of Conan in them that they do.)

I think Conan screwed up in not taking the temporary 12:05 demotion, and Jimmy is the slightly-delayed beneficiary in that mistake.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

lambertman said:


> I'm more interested to see if Jimmy thanks Conan. (I've heard that it's because of Jimmy that the promos for his Tonight Show have what little trace of Conan in them that they do.)
> 
> I think Conan screwed up in not taking the temporary 12:05 demotion, and Jimmy is the slightly-delayed beneficiary in that mistake.


I think Conan screwed up by (1) moving to L.A. and leaving what worked very well and (2) bringing back Andy Richter.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

I think Leno is going to end up on CNN.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

The two Jimmys will duke it out for the title of #1 but the new King of Late Night Television is Lorne Michaels.

I don't think that Fallon will do better than O'Brien's Tonight Show ratings in the long run but if he can attract enough of the younger demo, NBC will at least pretend to be happy with his ratings.

I think the one who will really feel the squeeze will be Letterman as:
A) He has nothing left to prove.
B) He will be competing with Fallon (and Michaels) for a more limited pool of guests and I suspect that unless he gets another ratings boost, he'll get less of the A List guests than Fallon.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

TomK said:


> I think Conan screwed up by (1) moving to L.A. and leaving what worked very well and (2) bringing back Andy Richter.


(1) The _only_ thing he left was his location -- his entire staff went with him from New York to L.A.

As far as I can remember, the concept of a Conan "Tonight Show" in New York didn't even occur to anyone; NBC was of the mindset that "'The Tonight Show' moved to Los Angeles in 1972, and that's it," so they started from that thought and built Conan the new studio at Universal, etc.

(2) Obviously, it's a matter of personal taste, but I think Conan just "works" much better when he's with Andy than he did in the last few years of "Late Night" when Andy wasn't on the show.

I'm not aware of any research that showed that the low ratings for Conan's "Tonight Show" were because of the presence of Andy Richter, but feel free to point me to something.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

> *Conan O'Brien Wins Late-Night TV With Jay Leno Jab*





> The scorned host has moved on, but he hasn't forgotten the slight. During his monologue Thursday, O'Brien took a shot at his former network, saying, "NBC has the Olympics. It's a big deal. NBC will finally get to show somebody who's okay with passing the torch."


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/conan-obrien-wins-late-night-tv-jay-leno/story?id=22403843


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Slate: I actually feel bad for Jay Leno

Interesting article. The author points out again and again how bad Leno is, with old, tired, and outdated jokes. But yet he feels bad for him.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I bet that Leno is a guest on Letterman within the next year. It will be a huge media event, obviously. But Dave has the ability to reconcile with Jay - at least to have him on his show. 

Conan? Never.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Interesting article. The author points out again and again how bad Leno is, with old, tired, and outdated jokes. But yet he feels bad for him.


Apparently Leno is starting stand up gigs almost immediately so we'll see if his vision of humor is still relevant.

I may not be the right person to judge (because I'm also old) but I prefer Leno's monologue among the current (or recently canceled) choices.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> I bet that Leno is a guest on Letterman within the next year. It will be a huge media event, obviously.


Last night Fallon specifically invited Leno back to the tonight show if he felt the need to tell jokes - possibly he was being nice but possibly trying to avoid Leno doing other late night shows.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

argicida said:


> Apparently Leno is starting stand up gigs almost immediately so we'll see if his vision of humor is still relevant.
> 
> I may not be the right person to judge (because I'm also old) but I prefer Leno's monologue among the current (or recently canceled) choices.


Leno stopped doing stand up shows. Even during the height of the Tonight Show, Leno was doing 120-150 standup dates a year. He's a total workaholic. He does standup every weekend and almost every night when the show is dark.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

argicida said:


> Apparently Leno is starting stand up gigs almost immediately so we'll see if his vision of humor is still relevant.
> 
> I may not be the right person to judge (because I'm also old) but I prefer Leno's monologue among the current (or recently canceled) choices.


It depends. If people come to see you, does that make you relevant?

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> Leno stopped doing stand up shows. Even during the height of the Tonight Show, Leno was doing 120-150 standup dates a year. He's a total workaholic. He does standup every weekend and almost every night when the show is dark.


^never

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

smak said:


> ^never
> 
> -smak-


Where are you from and what do you do?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Leno stopped doing stand up shows. Even during the height of the Tonight Show, Leno was doing 120-150 standup dates a year. He's a total workaholic. He does standup every weekend and almost every night when the show is dark.


He just loves working.

He'll keep doing his car show too.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Even during the height of the Tonight Show, Leno was doing 120-150 standup dates a year. He's a total workaholic. He does standup every weekend and almost every night when the show is dark.


That's amazing.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Slate: I actually feel bad for Jay Leno
> 
> Interesting article. The author points out again and again how bad Leno is, with old, tired, and outdated jokes. But yet he feels bad for him.


I didn't read the article.. I will probably keep track of a bunch of these articles and read them eventually.

The *one* thing I feel "sorry" for Leno about is his prime time show. While I didn't watch *full* episodes of it regularly, I did like I do with the late night shows (including his) and recorded it and FFed through for the funny bits. It *wasn't* exactly the Tonight Show, but did feel familiar, and still had new segments in it.

Basically, I don't begrudge him for actually taking the prime time show and trying out something familiar but still new-ish, even though it got horrible ratings.

I do begrudge him for screwing over Conan.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> I bet that Leno is a guest on Letterman within the next year. It will be a huge media event, obviously. But Dave has the ability to reconcile with Jay - at least to have him on his show.


You guys do remember the *Letterman* Super Bowl promo a few years ago with Leno & Oprah, right? It was very funny, because it was so surprising.

Also, on one of the Letteman episodes I've watched recently (from within the past year), a guest asked him and he DID say he had talked to Leno on the phone (IIRC) "within the past few months" of that interview.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Letterman almost never does interviews, but he was a guest on Alex Baldwin's podcast. He said that he's forgiven Leno and they're now friendly again. 

I may be misremembering all that though.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Leno stopped doing stand up shows. Even during the height of the Tonight Show, Leno was doing 120-150 standup dates a year. He's a total workaholic. He does standup every weekend and almost every night when the show is dark.





smak said:


> ^never
> 
> -smak-





Turtleboy said:


> Where are you from and what do you do?


I'm not understanding the response, but if it was supposed to be a snarky comment, it wasn't merited. Smak was just trying to point out that it seems you meant to say "Leno *never* stopped doing stand up shows." You missed the word never.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I'm not understanding the response, but if it was supposed to be a snarky comment, it wasn't merited. Smak was just trying to point out that it seems you meant to say "Leno *never* stopped doing stand up shows." You missed the word never.


Sorry, inside joke. Smak and I (along with smeek and others) saw Leno together in Vegas a few years ago. Leno asked smak where he was from and what he did.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Ah.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

And over a decade after he left office, was still telling "Bill Clinton is horny" jokes.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

still can't let it go.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

I've never cared for Fallon's show, even though I think he is very talented. For example, I think the various commercials Fallon has done to be very good and worth watching (I don't know who created the commercials; may not have been Fallon.) But I just don't find Fallon's show that interesting, even when he has a guest I am interested in. Something about his interview style, or his show's structure, I guess...

I record the various late night shows in case they have a guest I want to see. But only Ferguson's show holds much interest for me beyond the guests.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

Everyone should note that the new Tonight Show will require a new Season Pass. The old Season Pass for Leno's show will not record the new one.


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## Doggie Bear (Jan 16, 2008)

Let me admit upfront that a lot of my pop culture tastes are entirely conventional, and I'm also an aging Gen Xer so soon to be out of the age range that advertisers consider desirable....

I've long preferred Leno to Letterman or O'Brien (although I do find Triumph the Comic Insult Dog absolutely hilarious), perhaps precisely because of the broad, vanilla monologue. Yes, Bill Clinton has been out of office for 14 years, but I still find Clinton jokes kind of funny. You could play a video clip of that "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" press conference, and I would spew whatever I was drinking over the keyboard. I was kind of disappointed


Spoiler



that the last Leno show did not have a clip of the "Mambo No. 5" parody song (i.e. "a little bit of Monica"), or to date me further, the Dancing Itos.



On the bright side, I guess I can recapture about 30 minutes of my late night and go to bed earlier now.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Slate: I actually feel bad for Jay Leno
> 
> Interesting article. The author points out again and again how bad Leno is, with old, tired, and outdated jokes. But yet he feels bad for him.


I'm not particularly a fan of his.
I met him once briefly and he seemed a nice enough guy.

I've seen maybe a handful of his shows since he returned to the Tonight Show.
(Having the orchestra sting his punchlines annoyed me. enough not to watch much)

But I did tune into his last show just to see and by the end, I did feel sorry for him.

I mean, he may not be the best comedian around but he worked hard and he landed his dream job which he loved doing.

And from his bosses' point of view, he did the job very well (holding the #1 spot for all those years) and he was a model employee.

His reward was to have his dream job taken away from him twice while his job performance was still good.

And to be unrealistically vilified for his bosses' half baked ideas.
(From everything I've read and seen, I see no reason to think that he screwed over Conan O'Brien.)

Realistically, I don't think he could have maintained his lead for too much longer. I suspect that he had maybe a year or two at maintaining his lead and I think he believes that as well.
It would have been nice if NBC allowed him to leave on his own terms though as a reward of all his loyalty and good work over the years.

Although he basically admitted in the 60 Minutes interview that he know that he was going to get screwed.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertain...eventually-youre-going-to-get-screwed-2014271



> "I always tell new people in show business, I say, 'Look, show business pays you a lot of money, because eventually you're gonna get screwed,'" he explained. "'And when you get screwed, you will have this pile of money off to the side already."


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Dave was kind of classy.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Dave was kind of classy.


He as pretty classy to Jay - but maybe a little negative toward "Little Jimmy"


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

argicida said:


> He as pretty classy to Jay - but maybe a little negative toward "Little Jimmy"


That's just his sense of humor. They were all together - Kimmel, Fallon, Letterman, and Seth Myers, this past weekend at Howard Stern's Birthday show.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Thom said:


> Everyone should note that the new Tonight Show will require a new Season Pass. The old Season Pass for Leno's show will not record the new one.


Rest assured I will not need to acquire a new season pass. Once Letterman retires, so will my late nite recording.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

brianric said:


> Rest assured I will not need to acquire a new season pass. Once Letterman retires, so will my late nite recording.


For myself, I will need a new season pass, but I don't need to delete any existing pass.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I don't need to delete any existing pass.


Neither will I when Fallon tanks.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Fallon will lose some viewers due to their age (and his) - that's a generational thing. I'm sure Jay lost a bunch of Johnny's viewers too.

The real question is whether Fallon will gain at least as many viewers as he'll lose. There seems to be two camps:

1) People who think he's a giggly fawner over his guests
2) People who think those attributes make him more like the audience, and they identify with him because of it.

But there's no denying that he's a very talented guy (particularly musically and impressions, talents which no previous host had). Personally, I'm looking forward to his run on Tonight.

One thing though - I've never considered the Roots that great of a band. They're ok.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

scooterboy said:


> But there's no denying that he's a very talented guy (particularly musically and impressions, talents which no previous host had).


Agree.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

scooterboy said:


> But there's no denying that he's a very talented guy (particularly musically and impressions, talents which no previous host had).


Not that he uses it a lot, but Conan's got some musical talent also.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> Not that he uses it a lot, but Conan's got some musical talent also.


I know he taught himself the guitar... doesn't he dabble in playing the drums as well?

Edit: yup!
Conan Playing Drums:





Conan on Guitar:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> And to be unrealistically vilified for his bosses' half baked ideas.
> (From everything I've read and seen, I see no reason to think that he screwed over Conan O'Brien.)


Totally agree with this. Leno got screwed over by the NBC execs when they tried to force him out and replace him with Conan, and then both Conan and Leno got screwed by those same execs when the execs decided to boot Conan and put Leno back in there. Some will say that Leno shouldn't have agreed to take the job back, but he never wanted to give it up in the first place, so he had no reason to sit on the sidelines just to make a point.

It will be interesting to see if Leno's standup act gets more contemporary since he won't be telling the most topical stuff to a few million people a night on TV.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

He shouldn't have taken the 10PM spot. He should have said Eff You and gone to Fox or ABC and to compete directly.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> He shouldn't have taken the 10PM spot. He should have said Eff You and gone to Fox or ABC and to compete directly.


Or just been gracious and retired from TV, after they'd paid him, what, $230 million over the years? Not to mention, he'd had five years to get used to the idea, and a total run of seventeen years in the job the first time. We should all be so screwed.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

So both NBC shows will be in NYC as well as Letterman? Seems like there will be a lot of competition for guests.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> Not that he uses it a lot, but Conan's got some musical talent also.


True. I honestly wasn't thinking of Conan as a former Tonight Show host when I said that. His tenure was too short to be of note (for me).


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

aadam101 said:


> So both NBC shows will be in NYC as well as Letterman? Seems like there will be a lot of competition for guests.


Yup, which will be nice for Kimmel and Conan who remain on the west coast.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> He shouldn't have taken the 10PM spot. He should have said Eff You and gone to Fox or ABC and to compete directly.


Maybe not but he still wanted to work. NBC backed up the Brinks truck to him and guaranteed him two years plus he didn't have to even move studios.
It was a great deal for him. 
Even though I have always stated that putting him on 5 nights a week at 10 PM was a suck idea for NBC, I don't blame him for taking the deal.



wmcbrine said:


> Or just been gracious and retired from TV, after they'd paid him, what, $230 million over the years? Not to mention, he'd had five years to get used to the idea, and a total run of seventeen years in the job the first time. We should all be so screwed.


But he didn't want to retire.
Why should he have to if he's still capable of doing the job and someone wants to pay him money to do so?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

One thing about Leno, he'll die on stage. He'll work until he can't anymore. If it gets to the point where no one is willing to pay up to do standup, he'll do it for free.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> He shouldn't have taken the 10PM spot. He should have said Eff You and gone to Fox or ABC and to compete directly.


As he said in his final show the other night, he's worked at NBC for 20 years. He considers those people family. He doesn't know anyone at the other networks. Asking him to leave NBC and go work for another network was basically like asking him to abandon his family and go start a new one. That just wasn't in him.

And then when NBC offered him the option of basically continuing what he wanted to do all along, with more pay and in a more prominent timeslot, it was kind of a no-brainer at that point. With hindsight, we all know it wasn't a good move. But at the time, how could he have said no to that offer? Do you really believe it was so clear cut that the 10 pm show would be a failure that he should have known that up front?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

What I find odd is that I used to like Leno's standup, and I liked him as guest host when it was the Carson show. But after it became his own, I rapidly lost interest in it. Somehow it became almost a parody of himself, telling really lame jokes and then laughing at them as if they were really clever.

I still liked Headlines, though.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> One thing about Leno, he'll die on stage. He'll work until he can't anymore. If it gets to the point where no one is willing to pay up to do standup, he'll do it for free.


The theory has been floated in the past that comedians tend to hate Leno because he doesn't seem to have the demons that others do.
He's got a seemingly loving and stable marriage, doesn't appear to have substance abuse issues, and by most accounts, comes across as a really nice guy to people.

I suspect that they've missed the possibility that Leno is horribly insecure and this manifests itself in the workaholic ways and wanting to be liked by everyone.

I was reading this retrospective of Leno hate (those Leno haters reading this thread, feel free to bask in the hate) and two things jumped out at me:



> Leno is set to inherit The Tonight Show from Johnny Carson in May. Before the big premiere, he chats about his career in a 60 Minutes segment that also includes agent Helen Kushnick recalling all the rejection Leno faced in his early years  He was too dark, he was too ethnic, he was too menacing  they actually did tell me that they thought hed be frightening to children  and his wife Mavis remembering a casting director who spurned her husband, then put out a notice for a good-looking Jay Leno.


and



> Bill Carter publishes a follow-up to The Late Shift called The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy. Once again, he emphasizes Lenos insane work ethic  Jay doesnt even understand the idea of vacations  and obsessive desire to be loved. In the end, Leno comes across as pathetic and desperate: Hes devoted his entire life to his work, and he doesnt know what to do when faced with the possibility of his show being taken away.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I see Leno's standing Sunday night show at the Comedy and Magic club in Hermosa Beach is sold out till March. Would of liked to see his show last night.

edit: If I still lived there. I've seen him a few times, don't think it was ever sold out, and most time, got free tickets with just the 2 drinks required.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

Well this is interesting Seth Meyers new band leader is his former SNL alum cast mate Fred Amrisen.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/seth-meyers-chooses-fellow-snl-alum-fred-armisen-213801071.html


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Michael S said:


> Well this is interesting Seth Meyers new band leader is his former SNL alum cast mate Fred Amrisen. http://tv.yahoo.com/news/seth-meyers-chooses-fellow-snl-alum-fred-armisen-213801071.html


OMG! That is AWESOME!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Ereth said:


> What I find odd is that I used to like Leno's standup, and I liked him as guest host when it was the Carson show. But after it became his own, I rapidly lost interest in it.


Yeah, I've said the same thing. His appearances on Letterman's show were absolutely hilarious, and I liked him as a guest host... so at the time I briefly liked that he got the TS, since it would mean two "good" shows. But he just got really bland. While Letterman too is admittedly sort of a pale imitation of his former self, he at least makes fun of it when he recycles jokes. (Actually, even though this was one of the things forced on him by his evil agent, I liked that Leno originally had 2 songs from musical performers -- at least if I liked the musician!)

I don't watch entire shows of any of the others. I watch very little of Ferguson, who everybody else seems to love.. I record it and others for a funny bit once in a while or musical guests.

Fallon does sort of seem like Letterman in the early days -- doing wacky stuff just to be wacky, and his game show bits and parodies are excellent.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I got this link off of Mark Evanier's blog concerning the current breakdown of Late Night audiences.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/late-night-ratings-battle-lenos-676713

I didn't realize that Letterman's audience skewed older than Leno's.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I got this link off of Mark Evanier's blog concerning the current breakdown of Late Night audiences.
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/late-night-ratings-battle-lenos-676713
> 
> I didn't realize that Letterman's audience skewed older than Leno's.


Me neither. I wonder how much that has to do with NBC v. CBS's lead in.

These days, I'm an old man and go to bed before any of them. However, I TiVo Daily Show (which I always watch), Letterman, and Conan - which I'll sometimes watch.

Jon Stewart's ratings are great considering he's on cable.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

This is a fascinating video of Jay's and Dave's respective interviews in Seinfeld's Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. They still really like - or at least respect - each other.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/05/b...leno-and-letterman-told-by-seinfeld.html?_r=0


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think the difference between Leno and Letterman is that Leno wants to please everybody, and Letterman only wants to please himself.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

If I were a betting man, and I am, I would bet that Leno will become a "regular" on Dave's show. Appearing a couple times a year.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

smak said:


> If I were a betting man, and I am, I would bet that Leno will become a "regular" on Dave's show. Appearing a couple times a year.
> 
> -smak-


I agree. Leno appeared on Dave's old show 41 times.

If he wanted to be a dick, he would do it on Jimmy Fallon's opening night.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

smak said:


> If I were a betting man, and I am, I would bet that Leno will become a "regular" on Dave's show. Appearing a couple times a year.
> 
> -smak-


That'll send Howard Stern through the wall.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Michael S said:


> Well this is interesting Seth Meyers new band leader is his former SNL alum cast mate Fred Amrisen.
> 
> http://tv.yahoo.com/news/seth-meyers-chooses-fellow-snl-alum-fred-armisen-213801071.html


If I were going to pick a "Portlandia" cast member to be a late-night bandleader, he's not the first one I'd pick.


----------



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Just watching Arsenio Hall for the the first time in 10 years - he used to look so relaxed and now he looks like he doesn't believe he should be there


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> I agree. Leno appeared on Dave's old show 41 times.
> 
> If he wanted to be a dick, he would do it on Jimmy Fallon's opening night.


No way would he do that to Jimmy.


----------



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Continuing to look around for alternatives - I caught a few Chelsea Lately's

looks promising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Lately


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I like Fallon. I don't normally watch his show, but the parts I catch I usually enjoy. I hope he keeps everything pretty much exactly the same when he moves up an hour.


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Michael S said:


> Well this is interesting Seth Meyers new band leader is his former SNL alum cast mate Fred Amrisen.
> 
> http://tv.yahoo.com/news/seth-meyers-chooses-fellow-snl-alum-fred-armisen-213801071.html


I hope Fred does his Lawrence Welk character while band leader. Heck they could probably convince many senior citizens out there that it is a replay of the Lawrence Welk Show and it would boost ratings.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

A couple of observations on the topic. I'll preface this by saying I'm only an occasional watcher of any of these shows and have no real preference to any of them. I watch if there's a guest I want to see. I'm also in the demo that doesn't matter anymore.

I've seen Fallon a few times, and I really like him, but he doesn't strike me as the type that's going to appeal to the younger demos. Just because he's younger than Leno doesn't mean that he appeals to 20 or 30 somethings. From what I've seen of Kimmel, he's CLEARLY going after that demo, as he has a lot more current pop-culture stars than the others and his bits appear geared toward a younger demo. Fallon even admits to being an "old soul" in this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/a...r-viewers-to-tonight.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

I think Fallon is just a younger Jay or Dave, but essentially does the same shtick.

Does Kimmel get better ratings among the desired demo than Dave or Jay do/did?

And I think the days of the Tonight show format are waning. There are just so many other choices out there. TDS and Colbert do well among those demos for a cable show and have a completely different format. Or at least it's presented differently.

As for Jay, it's hard to "feel sorry" for a guy worth what he's worth. He'll keep working, and hardly starve doing it. He's famous enough that people won't forget who he is. I predict he'll be like Seinfeld when his show ended. He'll do all kinds of gigs, which he still loves to do, and I bet he becomes a featured Vegas performer, where he'll do nightly shows for an extended period and he'll do well at it.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I've seen Fallon a few times, and I really like him, but he doesn't strike me as the type that's going to appeal to the younger demos. Just because he's younger than Leno doesn't mean that he appeals to 20 or 30 somethings. From what I've seen of Kimmel, he's CLEARLY going after that demo, as he has a lot more current pop-culture stars than the others and his bits appear geared toward a younger demo. Fallon even admits to being an "old soul" in this article:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/a...r-viewers-to-tonight.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
> 
> I think Fallon is just a younger Jay or Dave, but essentially does the same shtick.


Faillon isn't as cranky as Dave but does have Lorne Michaels in his corner so I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.



Steveknj said:


> Does Kimmel get better ratings among the desired demo than Dave or Jay do/did?


Other than the week when he first moved to 11:30, no.
(See the chart in the article I posted about ratings)

Leno still beat him in demo most of the time.

However, Leno's lead was shrinking and as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't think he could have maintained it for more than another year or two.
(His lead in demo took a significant hit in the Conan fiasco.)



Steveknj said:


> And I think the days of the Tonight show format are waning. There are just so many other choices out there. TDS and Colbert do well among those demos for a cable show and have a completely different format. Or at least it's presented differently.


I've been mulling over similar thoughts.
I'm not sure that even the Great Carson would do so well in today's environment with everything else that's available.



Steveknj said:


> As for Jay, it's hard to "feel sorry" for a guy worth what he's worth. He'll keep working, and hardly starve doing it. He's famous enough that people won't forget who he is. I predict he'll be like Seinfeld when his show ended. He'll do all kinds of gigs, which he still loves to do, and I bet he becomes a featured Vegas performer, where he'll do nightly shows for an extended period and he'll do well at it.


I'm guessing that you didn't watch Leno's final show but at the end when he was saying goodbye, you could tell that he absolutely loved, *loved* doing this job. For him, it's not so much the money but the fact that this was his dream job.

And by his employer's metrics (ratings), he did the job very well, made them a lot of money, and didn't cause them a lot of problems (ala Charlie Sheen) and was a good soldier for them.

And his bosses rewarded him for all his good work and loyalty by taking his dream job away from him, twice.

On that level, I felt sorry for him.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I'm guessing that you didn't watch Leno's final show but at the end when he was saying goodbye, you could tell that he absolutely loved, loved doing this job. *For him, it's not so much the money but the fact that this was his dream job. *


According to most sources "in the know," the money is meaningless to Leno. Supposedly he's never spent a dime of his Tonight Show money and simply lives off what he makes from his weekend stand up gigs.

Since he has no kids, I hope he's got a lot of charities in mind for his massive net worth. Maybe some of it will go toward endowing and creating a museum to house and maintain his car collection.


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

DevdogAZ said:


> Maybe some of it will go toward endowing and creating a museum to house and maintain his car collection.


This.


----------



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

This puts it very positive but he came on at 11:30 and didn't draw Tonight Show numbers



> *TV Ratings: Jimmy Fallon Leaves 'Late Night' With Record 6.6 Million Viewers*


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-jimmy-fallon-leaves-678542


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

argicida said:


> This puts it very positive but he came on at 11:30 and didn't draw Tonight Show numbers
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-jimmy-fallon-leaves-678542


No, he drew better than normal Tonight Show numbers.


> The episode averaged 6.6 million viewers and 2.2 rating among adults 18-49 -- both highs for his Late Night tenure.


Fallon pulled a 2.2 in demo, which better than almost all of NBC's primetime lineup (not counting the Olympics).

Of course, he was following the Olympics so a better test will be a few weeks after the Olympics.

As a contrast, Leno's second Tonight Show finale scored 3.8 in demo.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-146-million-viewers-678358


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

argicida said:


> This puts it very positive but he came on at 11:30 and didn't draw Tonight Show numbers


He hasn't been on at 11:30. That show started at midnight.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> He hasn't been on at 11:30. That show started at midnight.


The show actually airs at 12:35 a.m. ET/11:35 p.m. CT. I'd guess that argicida is referring to the central time zone scheduled time.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> The show actually airs at 12:35 a.m. ET/11:35 p.m. CT. I'd guess that argicida is referring to the central time zone scheduled time.


Talking about that specific episode, not the regular show time.


----------



## sean67854 (Jul 11, 2001)

I wonder how many viewers of TDS watch it as a news source rather than a talk show. 

Also, why is Ferguson essentially left out of all of these conversations? Is it because people just don't like his show, or because it's so different?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

sean67854 said:


> I wonder how many viewers of TDS watch it as a news source


I wonder the same thing about Fox News.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

sean67854 said:


> Also, why is Ferguson essentially left out of all of these conversations? Is it because people just don't like his show, or because it's so different?


Because we're primarily talking about the flagship late night shows for each network (Leno, Letterman, Kimmel), and since Fallon is now replacing Leno, he's been included, and since Seth Meyers is replacing Fallon, there's been some talk of him as well. But generally, there's not much talk of the JV late night shows.


----------



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

wmcbrine said:


> He hasn't been on at 11:30. That show started at midnight.


On the DirecTV schedule it sure did look like 11:30 Eastern but I didn't screen shot it so I'm not sure.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

argicida said:


> On the DirecTV schedule it sure did look like 11:30 Eastern but I didn't screen shot it so I'm not sure.


I don't know or care what it said on the DirecTV schedule, I'm telling you how it was in reality. It's also mentioned in the very article you linked to.


----------



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

JYoung said:


> No, he drew better than normal Tonight Show numbers.
> 
> Fallon pulled a 2.2 in demo, which better than almost all of NBC's primetime lineup (not counting the Olympics).
> 
> ...


Good numbers for "Late night" but a drop off from recent Tonight Show numbers. it will certainly be interesting to compare the numbers in couple of weeks when things are more "normal."


----------



## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

wmcbrine said:


> I don't know or care what it said on the DirecTV schedule, I'm telling you how it was in reality. It's also mentioned in the very article you linked to.


No need to be unpleasant about it - I said I said I could be wrong and that line in the article suggests I was wrong. Not the first time I've been wrong this week.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> I wonder the same thing about Fox News.


You couldn't resist trolling, could you?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

WhiskeyTango said:


> You couldn't resist trolling, could you?


I couldn't resist responding to someone trolling. I shouldn't have.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Fallon's first Tonight Show is tomorrow. Who will watch? I think I will


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DeDondeEs said:


> I hope Fred does his Lawrence Welk character while band leader.


I'm actually hoping more for Fericito.


----------



## MikeCC (Jun 19, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> I couldn't resist responding to someone trolling. I shouldn't have.


Actually, you "responded" (and WhiskeyTango called you on it) to a quote you shortened and distorted.

The original, complete sentence that you responded to was:


> I wonder how many viewers of TDS watch it as a news source rather than a talk show.


But YOU edited that sentence to:


> I wonder how many viewers of TDS watch it as a news source.


The first quote raises what might be a legitimate concern--viewers who treat Jon Stewart's comedy show as news, rather than a comedy show with a humorous take on topical items.

Your edited quote creates the impression that the poster was trying to deride TDS because it wasn't a news broadcast. Of course, the _accurate _quote would not give you the same springboard to launch into a snide, off topic post about another news outlet that wasn't being discussed at all.


----------



## Ozzie72 (Aug 9, 2008)

Turtleboy said:


> I wonder the same thing about Fox News.


From way downtown...BANG! :up:


----------



## sean67854 (Jul 11, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> I couldn't resist responding to someone trolling. I shouldn't have.


Wow, dude, you really thought I was trolling? I honestly thought you had a better opinion of me, but I guess I was wrong.

My "trolling" was an honest question because I have repeatedly gotten into conversations at work about politics and current events and people will say "I heard on the daily show ....".


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

sean67854 said:


> Wow, dude, you really thought I was trolling? I honestly thought you had a better opinion of me, but I guess I was wrong.
> 
> My "trolling" was an honest question because I have repeatedly gotten into conversations at work about politics and current events and people will say "I heard on the daily show ....".


Well, I have the same question as Turtleboy, because I myself have often gotten into conversations about politics and current events and people say to me, "I heard on Fox News ...". This makes me wonder how many viewers of Fox News watch it as a news source rather than as entertainment (I'm actually not kidding: I honestly really do wonder about this). I think this is a legitimate question, too, MikeCC: certainly just as legitimate as sean67854's question.

But of course both questions are irrelevant and off-topic _in this thread_: there was no discussion of news programs in any way before sean67854 brought it up, and the single remark related to TDS prior to that put it clearly in the category of talk show. The news comment was out of left field and without context: that was where the thread went off-topic, not Turtleboy's response.

Of course, now we're all off-topic...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Was planning to watch Fallon's first show but forgot. Just turned it on to see U2 doing a concert on top of 30 Rock. Hopefully I'll be able to find the rest of the show online somewhere. For those that did watch, how was it?


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

It felt pretty much just like his Late Night show. For some reason, the set seemed really small. Pretty good start.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> It felt pretty much just like his Late Night show. *For some reason, the set seemed really small.* Pretty good start.


If it's back in one of the studios at 30 Rock (like where Conan used to be and where Fallon was previously), then it is a very small studio so it would make sense that the set would seem small.

Edit: Yep, his new show is in Studio 6B at 30 Rock, which is the same studio where Jack Paar and Johnny Carson did Tonight when it was still in New York. And Fallon's "Late Night" has been in 6B as well, although he's primarily been in 6A, which is where Letterman and Conan's versions of Late Night were, as well.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm watching the local ABC station News broadcast and Jimmy Kimmel walked on the set and relieved the sportscaster and completed his segment.

Of course, he plugged his show at the end.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

The parade of celebs who came out to pay off the bet was funny.


----------



## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> And Fallon's "Late Night" has been in 6B as well, although he's primarily been in 6A, which is where Letterman and Conan's versions of Late Night were, as well.


This is just splitting all kinds of hairs, I admit... but wasn't Fallon in 6B for virtually all of Late Night's history? As I understand it, they moved him to 6A very recently so that they could renovate it for Tonight.

Overall, a good debut, but they had a week to prepare for it. I am concerned about the quality of his monologue and comedy bits, but he seems to be a good interviewer. (I watched Ferguson at 12:30 and will assuredly stick with Colbert at 11:30.)

Edit: I meant all of his "Late Night's" history. Dave and Conan were 6A.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I noticed that the show is called "The Tonight Show, _Starring_ Jimmy Fallon" as opposed to "The Tonight Show _With_ Jay Leno."

It was "with" Conan O'Brien too, but "starring" Johnny Carson, Jack Parr, and Steve Allen.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

It was a pretty good start. Too bad they got such a lame first guest (Will Smith). U2 did a nice job. I may DVR a few more eps to see what kind of spin he puts on the old iconic show.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I've been a Dave fan ever since his daytime show (anyone else remember that?) but I can't imagine his show doing well against Jimmy Fallon.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

The issue, of course, is that the entire metrics of measuring is changing. Are they measuring the amount of people who watch one show live on TV as it is broadcast vs. the other?

I think Fallon understands that people watch _clips_ online. I'm not sure how they are going to monetize that though.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

madscientist said:


> This makes me wonder how many viewers of Fox News watch it as a news source rather than as entertainment (...)


Clearly the vast majority of people who watch Fox News view it as a source of news, just like the vast majority of people who watch CNN view it as a source of news.

It is so obvious that to suggest anything else is to open yourself up to a claim of "trolling"....not to mention the implicit suggestion that Fox News should *not* be taken seriously. There are other threads for non-political political discussions. I don't think this is one of them.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> The issue, of course, is that the entire metrics of measuring is changing. Are they measuring the amount of people who watch one show live on TV as it is broadcast vs. the other?
> 
> I think Fallon understands that people watch _clips_ online. I'm not sure how they are going to monetize that though.


A NY Times story on Fallon's first night reflects on this.


----------



## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> I noticed that the show is called "The Tonight Show, _Starring_ Jimmy Fallon" as opposed to "The Tonight Show _With_ Jay Leno."
> 
> It was "with" Conan O'Brien too, but "starring" Johnny Carson, Jack Parr, and Steve Allen.


I read an article about that last week which said Fallon wanted it to be "starring" as a tribute of sorts to Carson & Parr. Not sure I completely believe that, but that's what it said.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

First show was good. U2 on top of 30 Rockefeller Plaza at sunset looked absolutely fantastic. All the cameos of people paying Jimmy $100 was funny. How many of them will turn up later in the week as guests?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I wonder if he'll go back to the standard format of monologue-bit-guest-guest-music...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lambertman said:


> This is just splitting all kinds of hairs, I admit... but wasn't Fallon in 6B for virtually all of Late Night's history? As I understand it, they moved him to 6A very recently so that they could renovate it for Tonight.


I'm sure you're right. I just looked it up on Wikipedia and it showed that Late Night with Jimmy Fallon had been shot in both 6A and 6B. It didn't have dates for each. I've always gathered that the two studios are virtually identical.

I also read that Seth Meyers' new show will shoot in 8G, which is directly above 6B. They were afraid of sound bleed between the two studios, because the steel frame of the building would transfer the sound. So the way they are going to combat this is to have the two shows shoot 90 minutes apart. Fallon will shoot at 5 pm and Meyers at 6:30 pm.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> I've been a Dave fan ever since his daytime show (anyone else remember that?) but I can't imagine his show doing well against Jimmy Fallon.


I think that Fallon's going to have more competition from Kimmel and Stewart than Letterman.

I'm not going to threadcrap the other thread but color me unimpressed with Fallon's debut.

It was pretty much as I expected with no real monologue (it basically amounted to "I'm Jimmy Fallon and I can't believe that I'm hosting the Tonight Show" and doing obvious jokes about Olympic athletes photos).

The paying off the bet bit was very funny though (a number of Michaels' staple guests, I noticed) and the dance with Will Smith was amusing but the interview was basically the two of them pounding each other on the back.

The rooftop concert with U2 was interesting and brings up images of the Beatles performing on the roof of Apple Records.

But other than some of the people who payed off the bet, no real surprises here.

(Oh, and the studio does look small.)


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> The rooftop concert with U2 was interesting and brings up images of the Beatles performing on the roof of Apple Records.


... or, you know, U2's concert from the roof of BBC Broadasting House.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> ... or, you know, U2's concert from the roof of BBC Broadasting House.


Which one was first?


----------



## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

JYoung said:


> I got this link off of Mark Evanier's blog concerning the current breakdown of Late Night audiences.
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/late-night-ratings-battle-lenos-676713
> 
> I didn't realize that Letterman's audience skewed older than Leno's.


Wow. 80% of Jon Stewart's total audience are people in the 18-49 demo. I wonder if there is another show on television that comes anywhere close to that high of a ratio.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Personally, I'm more interested to see Seth Meyers' new show. 

I really don't care for Jimmy Fallon at all. He's incredibly awkward during the interviews. Also, during jokes, he often starts smirking at his own jokes. That last one really bugs me... I find comedians who show amusement at their own jokes insufferable. Combine that with the fact that I don't care for The Roots at all means I won't be watching The Tonight Show anytime soon.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm so confused about Fred Armisen being Seth Meyers' band leader. Is this just a short-term stunt thing? Doesn't Fred have a decent career going with Portlandia and other stuff? How does he have time to be at 30 Rock every day of the week for the taping of Seth's show?


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Personally, I'm more interested to see Seth Meyers' new show.
> 
> I really don't care for Jimmy Fallon at all. He's incredibly awkward during the interviews. Also, during jokes, he often starts smirking at his own jokes. That last one really bugs me... I find comedians who show amusement at their own jokes insufferable. Combine that with the fact that I don't care for The Roots at all means I won't be watching The Tonight Show anytime soon.


Same here.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Which one was first?


The U2 one on top of 30 Rock was more spectacular. Higher. At sunset. And with the whole skyline of NYC. In HD.

Playing on a roof certainly isn't new, though. Not even for U2 ('Streets' video)


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm so confused about Fred Armisen being Seth Meyers' band leader. Is this just a short-term stunt thing? Doesn't Fred have a decent career going with Portlandia and other stuff? How does he have time to be at 30 Rock every day of the week for the taping of Seth's show?


It's been done before. I think Max Weinberg was away longer during E Street tours, than Armisen will be during Portlandia filmings.

-smak-


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm really excited for Seth's show too. I think it will be more akin to Conan and Dave's Late Night than Jimmy's was.

Jimmy's show never felt like Late Night to me.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm so confused about Fred Armisen being Seth Meyers' band leader. Is this just a short-term stunt thing? Doesn't Fred have a decent career going with Portlandia and other stuff? How does he have time to be at 30 Rock every day of the week for the taping of Seth's show?


You do realize Paul Shaffer does tons and tons and tons of other stuff, and is always(*) there for Letterman's show, right?

(*) except some religious holidays and a VERY few times he's been sick.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lambertman said:


> Edit: I meant all of his "Late Night's" history. Dave and Conan were 6A.


Did 6B have the news set that Letterman walked into several times in the 80s?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mattack said:


> Did 6B have the news set that Letterman walked into several times in the 80s?


That would be WNBC's news set. They were in there until late 2008, clearing out to make room for Late Night with Jimmy Fallon.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Personally, I'm more interested to see Seth Meyers' new show.
> 
> I really don't care for Jimmy Fallon at all. He's incredibly awkward during the interviews. Also, during jokes, *he often starts smirking at his own jokes. That last one really bugs me... I find comedians who show amusement at their own jokes insufferable.*


Ummmmm... have you _seen_ Seth Meyers?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

busyba said:


> Ummmmm... have you _seen_ Seth Meyers?


Yeah, and I don't think he's anywhere as bad as Fallon is.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Yeah, and I don't think he's anywhere as bad as Fallon is.


I know. I just found the juxtaposition of the statements amusing.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Joan Rivers hadn't been on The Tonight Show since 1986. Johnny banned her when she started her own Fox show, and Leno never had her on -not once.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mattack said:


> You do realize Paul Shaffer does tons and tons and tons of other stuff, and is always(*) there for Letterman's show, right?
> 
> (*) except some religious holidays and a VERY few times he's been sick.


I know Shafer does a lot of other stuff, but his first and foremost job is as Dave's band leader. And his other jobs are generally music related. I just think it's unusual for someone to be the bandleader on a late-night show but not as their primary job, especially when their other job is not music related and not even on the same coast.

Basically, I view Armisen as a talented actor and comedian in the prime of his career. So I think it's odd for him to take that job that I would consider a step down for him.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> I really don't care for Jimmy Fallon at all. He's incredibly awkward during the interviews. Also, during jokes, he often starts smirking at his own jokes.


He does more than smirk at his own jokes.
I agree that he's usually horribly awkward at interviewing and he doesn't really do a good monologue.

Granted, Fallon is a more rounded talent than most of his competitors with his musical (mimicry) abilities and dancing, he's weak in two of the core requirements for a late night host.

Which is why I find all the positive comparisons to Carson (no doubt pushed by Michaels) a tad annoying.

One thing about Carson was that he _was_ a very good interviewer.

He wanted to his guests to be interesting and if they weren't, he'd either make them interesting or he'd cut them short and they wouldn't be back any time soon.

Robert Blake once said that being on The Tonight Show with Carson was like opening night on Broadway or facing the firing squad.
Fallon often acts like a giddy schoolboy when doing interviews and Blake could probably cut him to ribbons.


----------



## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Fallon is a terrible interviewer, one of the worst. He laughs if his guests just open their mouths. And laughs. And laughs some more. Fake, fake laughter. I like some of his bits, like the Tweets, but I cannot watch the guy interview a guest for more than a few seconds.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> (...) Leno never had her on -not once.


I had always thought that *she* was the one who didn't want to be on Leno's show, because she was resentful that he got the gig.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> I had always thought that *she* was the one who didn't want to be on Leno's show, because she was resentful that he got the gig.


That may be true. I'm sure Jay will say it is. Probably something in between.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Jay wouldn't say that it because of her resentment, even if he believed it.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Jay wouldn't say that it because of her resentment, even if he believed it.


However, Jay would say that she was always welcome on the show, and she chose not to go on.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Yes, definitely.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Joan Rivers hadn't been on The Tonight Show since 1986. Johnny banned her when she started her own Fox show, and Leno never had her on -not once.


I wonder if that's the longest banishment from a TV show - longer than Elvis Costello or Sinead O'Connor from Saturday Night Live


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

Interesting...



> Coincidentally, Rivers first appeared on Carson's "Tonight" on Feb. 17, 1965, exactly 49 years to the day from her Monday night return to honor the new host.
> 
> Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...show-30-years-article-1.1618115#ixzz2tp01ngJL


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

That is interesting. I noticed on CCC that Seinfeld knows the exact day that he first appeared on Johnny's show. I wonder if that's a common thing for comics? If so, Joan would have known the significance.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

GoPackGo said:


> That is interesting. I noticed on CCC that Seinfeld knows the exact day that he first appeared on Johnny's show. I wonder if that's a common thing for comics? If so, Joan would have known the significance.


Back in the Carson days, landing a gig on the Tonight Show was like reaching the summit of Everest for a comic. I would guarantee that almost every single comic knows their exact day.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

It also was about as far as most comics were going to get into the TV & movie arena.

Until Senfeld kinda made it fashionable for the major standup comics to get sitcoms, and then the big basic cable and pay cable breakout into original series kind of sealed the deal.

-smak-


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

busyba said:


> Back in the Carson days, landing a gig on the Tonight Show was like reaching the summit of Everest for a comic. I would guarantee that almost every single comic knows their exact day.


....and as you must know but others might not, being asked to the couch AFTER their standup set was a _huuuuuuuuuuge_ deal.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mattack said:


> ....and as you must know but others might not, being asked to the couch AFTER their standup set was a _huuuuuuuuuuge_ deal.


Yup. That was like reaching the summit at Everest and finding out that it's made of bacon.


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

busyba said:


> Back in the Carson days, landing a gig on the Tonight Show was like reaching the summit of Everest for a comic. I would guarantee that almost every single comic knows their exact day.


In Jeff Dunham's book he wrote a great narrative of his quest to appear on the Tonight Show.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

> > NBC is coming down like a hammer on celebs who want to get on Jimmy Fallon's show ... if they dare do a show on CBS or ABC ... they can forget about "The Tonight Show."
> >
> > Sources connected to CBS, NBC and ABC tell TMZ ... the Peacock network believes Jimmy Fallon's ratings success gives them extreme bargaining power. They put the word out to celebs, agents and publicists ... if they want to be on Fallon they can't appear on ANY other network ... and not just shows that go head-to-head with Jimmy, but morning shows as well.
> >
> > ...


I would think this would backfire but maybe their hand really is that strong.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

argicida said:


> I would think this would backfire but maybe their hand really is that strong.


I agree that it will backfire. Fallon's lead is due to his newness. Let's see what the ratings look like in 90 days and if NBC still has leverage then.

Also, the summer blockbuster promotion season is coming up. Does NBC really want the studios to have to decide between promoting their movies only on NBC properties or everywhere else?

And is NBC really going to play hardball on this with A-listers? If George Clooney or Tom Cruise or Jennifer Lawrence do Letterman or Kimmel, is NBC really going to ban them from Fallon? I think this just shows more of the stupidity of NBC's management.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree that it will backfire. Fallon's lead is due to his newness. Let's see what the ratings look like in 90 days and if NBC still has leverage then.
> 
> Also, the summer blockbuster promotion season is coming up. Does NBC really want the studios to have to decide between promoting their movies only on NBC properties or everywhere else?
> 
> And is NBC really going to play hardball on this with A-listers? If George Clooney or Tom Cruise or Jennifer Lawrence do Letterman or Kimmel, is NBC really going to ban them from Fallon? I think this just shows more of the stupidity of NBC's management.


Another one comes to mind is Michelle Obama. Brian Williams and David Brokaw are regulars on Dave; I wonder if that will stop.


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

I watched CBS Evening news tonight - they ran the Tonight Show boycott (or maybe exclusion is a better name) as one of the lead news stories.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Looks like I didn't post this here.. It's from a few weeks ago:

EXCLUSIVE: David Letterman wants Jay Leno to steal Jimmy Fallon's 'Tonight Show' thunder

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...allon-thunder-article-1.1622031#ixzz2vFBM1ziH
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...n-leno-steal-fallon-thunder-article-1.1622031


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

mattack said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...allon-thunder-article-1.1622031#ixzz2vFBM1ziH


Interesting - sounds like Letterman is playing into the boycott/anti-competition thing too...



> Lettermans booking department is keeping track of everyone who has appeared on Fallon so far, and considering if theyre worth having another source says.
> Lettermans people arent taking the leftovers, the source said.
> Thus far, however, Lettermans bookers havent turned down any powerful A-listers who have paid a visit to Fallon.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree that it will backfire. Fallon's lead is due to his newness. Let's see what the ratings look like in 90 days and if NBC still has leverage then.
> 
> Also, the summer blockbuster promotion season is coming up. Does NBC really want the studios to have to decide between promoting their movies only on NBC properties or everywhere else?
> 
> And is NBC really going to play hardball on this with A-listers? If George Clooney or Tom Cruise or Jennifer Lawrence do Letterman or Kimmel, is NBC really going to ban them from Fallon? I think this just shows more of the stupidity of NBC's management.


Put me in the dumb move by NBC camp as well.
Fallon's ratings were record breaking when he was following the Olympics but they've been falling significantly since the Olympics ended.
Now part of that should have been expected. Last week, Fallon averaged a 2.2 in demo.
This week, Fallon appears to be pulling 1.3-1.4 in demo in the 25 markets with Local People Meters.
(Admittedly, not exactly an apples to apples comparison.)

Is Michaels going to start banning people from SNL as well?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Read The Late Shift. Helen Kushnick used to do the same thing for Leno.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

Sounds like history repeating itself. This same ploy was tried by Leno's folks when he took over the Tonight Show from Carson and it famously backfired.

Edit: walked away from the keyboard while TB was typing his reply.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Read The Late Shift. Helen Kushnick used to do the same thing for Leno.


How did that work out for her?


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

JYoung said:


> How did that work out for her?


Exactly. As I recall is was among the many reasons she ultimately got canned.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JYoung said:


> How did that work out for her?


She died, that's how it worked out for her.

heh heh


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

I've been looking around for Late night alternatives and have settled on Chelsea Lately as the best of the best - here's an article speculating she may jump to Netflix



> Can Chelsea Handler Change Late-Night TV by Jumping to Netflix?
> "Chelsea Lately" host Chelsea Handler is about to become a free agent, and she told Howard Stern she's interested in leaving cable and going to Netflix.


http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...a-handler-change-late-night-tv-by-jumpin.aspx


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## argicida (Feb 17, 2009)

'Late Show' host David Letterman to retire in 2015

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/03/4935349/late-show-host-david-letterman.html#storylink=cpy


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Thanks for the heads up. Looks like it's something he announces on the show that will air tonight. I'll make sure to record it and see what he says.


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