# Roamio, DSL, MOCA, OTA



## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Hi,

I'm sick of Comcast, so I pulled the pin(cancelled), bought an OTA antenna, Tivo Roamio (4-Tuner Unit), a mini, and DSL internet.

The Roamio is in the upstairs living room, mini in the downstairs basement, and DSL in the kitchen. The only phone/DSL connection is in kitchen (middle of upstairs), and there isn't a coax connection close to this location.

We have existing Comcast coax that connects the Roamio, mini, and OTA. I was hoping to set up a moca network, but didn't realize I needed an adapter... It gets worse, I think. I was just reading that the mini will not work with the Roamio if it's networked wirelessly. Is this true?

I don't have a good way to get an Ethernet cable to from the DSL router to the Roamio, so that could be issue #1. Right now, I'm networking the Roamio wirelessly. Can I receive the internet signal with the Roamio, connect a moca adapter to the Roamio with Ethernet, and connect the coax from the wall through the moca adapter to the Roamio?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Sounds like things are pretty well spread out there. The Roamio and Mini will need to be on a wired network somehow.

If moca is too impractical (you would need 2 moca adapters), you might consider powerline networking. Several folks here have had success with that.


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## ukwildcat4life (Apr 13, 2014)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Sounds like things are pretty well spread out there. The Roamio and Mini will need to be on a wired network somehow.
> 
> If moca is too impractical (you would need 2 moca adapters), you might consider powerline networking. Several folks here have had success with that.


+1....as BigJimOutlaw said you will need 2 MoCA adapters if you end up going that route.....when I first hooked up my Roamio and Mini I used Powerline adapters and they worked fine but I didn't really use them long enough to say if they are a good solution for the long haul.... I bought the Netgear Nano 500's from my local Staples; they didn't cost much and were easy to use and set up. Some folks on here say they work fine and others say they experience problems. MoCA would be your best bet for a more stable, reliable solution. Below is a link that BigJimOutlaw started that will explain pretty much everything you need to know about setting up a MoCA network...if you have any other questions there are knowledgeable folks here that will chime in and help you...good luck! let us know how it goes...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501722


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

ysr1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm sick of Comcast, so I pulled the pin(cancelled), bought an OTA antenna, Tivo Roamio (4-Tuner Unit), a mini, and DSL internet.
> 
> ...


The Mini cannot work with a 4-tuner Roamio that is networked using its internal wireless card. Specifically, the Roamio Basic's software and/or hardware will not allow for bridging of the Roamio's internal wireless adapter and pumping that out over to the Roamio's ethernet for distribution to a MoCA network. Therefore, your proposed scenario of using the Roamio's builtin wireless then Roamio ethernet to MoCA adapter will not work.

One way you could go, however, is to connect everything wirelessly using two wireless bridges such as two of these: http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Wireless-AC-Universal-Connector-WUMC710/dp/B0090DX8O8

These bridges will essentially trick the Roamio and Mini into thinking they are both connected over ethernet.

Depending on how robust your router is and how good of a wireless signal you can get at both the Roamio and the Mini (both would likely need strong wireless signals), this setup may work. Simply plug one of the wireless bridges into the Roamio (be sure both of the bridges, however, have both been setup to wireless connect to your router first, however) and the other bridge into the Mini. Again, the performance you get on the Mini will greatly depend on the strength and quality of the wireless signal. Some people have had success with wireless-N adapters and routers but for the best performance as far as wireless goes, I would make sure your router and the wireless bridges you use are all wireless-AC.

The other option is to use one wireless bridge and one MoCA adapter. The bridge will be plugged into both the Roamio's ethernet and the Moca adapter's ethernet port. Then simply plug a coaxial cable from the wall to the Mini. This will be a more stable/robust setup than the one described above. Tivo.com seems to have the best prices on the MoCaAadapters in case you decide to go this route.

* Edited to reflect Jim's corrections


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Marty1781 said:


> The second MoCa adapter will be placed with the Mini.


The Mini doesn't need a moca adapter.


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## Marty1781 (Jan 2, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The Mini doesn't need a moca adapter.


True and good catch! Knew that but I guess that's what happens when replying at 2 AM! Post now edited to reflect this information.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Thank you very much for the advice. I'll dig into this when I break free from work. Thanks again.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

The wireless bridges and moca adapter is practical, though I'm not sure if I'll get a strong signal downstairs... I found a piece of luck, I think.

There's another phone line in the upstairs bedroom! I think this is a game changer, since the coax for downstairs comes in the house through a wall in this room. My OTA runs to the top of the splitter in the outside Comcast box. Two coax cables split off. One goes through the upstairs living room wall, the other comes through the bedroom wall, then through the floor to downstairs.

Can I put the moca adapter in the line between the splitter and the mini?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

ysr1 said:


> Can I put the moca adapter in the line between the splitter and the mini?


The moca adapter doesn't pass the moca signal through its cable-out.

Are you thinking of moving the DSL/router to the upstairs bedroom? Marty's wireless bridge idea is a good one if you can get a *strong* signal between the bridge and your router, wherever it ends up being placed.

The moca adapter would be connected to the bridge and Roamio's coax line, not on the Mini line.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Yes, sorry, I was thinking I could move the DSL router to the upstairs bedroom to get Ethernet to the moca adapter. Would the moca adapter work if placed between the splitter and the mini?


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## ukwildcat4life (Apr 13, 2014)

ysr1 said:


> Yes, sorry, I was thinking I could move the DSL router to the upstairs bedroom to get Ethernet to the moca adapter. Would the moca adapter work if placed between the splitter and the mini?


How many MoCA adapters do you have on hand? if you're going to use MoCA you are going to need 2 MoCA adapters since you have a Roamio base if I read correctly? you will need to place one of the MoCA adapters to your DSL router and the other to your Roamio......the mini has MoCA already built in so all you will need to do for it is just hook your Coax cable to it........did you read through the link that I posted above that BigJimOutlaw created to explain and illustrate how to set up MoCA? its a very useful thread.....


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

ysr1 said:


> Would the moca adapter work if placed between the splitter and the mini?


It would block the moca signal from reaching the Mini unless there's another splitter -- one leg to Mini, another leg to adapter. (And remember the adapter needs an ethernet connection to the bridge or router.)


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Marty1781 said:


> The other option is to use one wireless bridge and one MoCA adapter. The bridge will be plugged into both the Roamio's ethernet and the Moca adapter's ethernet port. Then simply plug a coaxial cable from the wall to the Mini. This will be a more stable/robust setup than the one described above. Tivo.com seems to have the best prices on the MoCaAadapters in case you decide to go this route.
> 
> * Edited to reflect Jim's corrections


Thanks for the support y'all. It's much appreciated. I decided to go with the 1ea AC wireless bridge and 1ea moca adapter solution. I'm waiting for my AC router to show up to make his work, but here's what I'm looking at.

The attic OTA goes to the coaxial splitter outside the house, from the splitter coaxial line #1 goes to the upstairs living room where I'll have the Roamio, wireless bridge, and moca adapter. Coaxial line #2 goes to the mini downstairs. Coaxial 1 connects to moca coaxial in, then moca coaxial out to Roamio. Wireless bridge connects via Ethernet to the Roamio and the moca adapter.

Does that make sense, or am I befuddled?

Thanks again.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

You would be far better off forgetting about the wireless bridge. Use a second moca adaptor to connect your dsl router anywhere on the coax net or even a new coax extension/split.

Then the roamio and the mini will get internet from moca as well as talk to each other.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

I was hoping to put the dsl router next to a coaxial line, though the only place I can do this is in our boy's room, and my wife is super opposed to it... The house is old and without many options, so I was hoping to fake out the Roamio with the wireless bridge. Not the ideal setup, but the wireless signal is strong, so I'm hoping this will work.

Is my understanding of the wireless bridge set up correct? I thought I was basically repeating what Marty and BigJim were telling me, but figured it was worth throwing out there, since I'm not familiar with networking devices.

Thanks. All the best.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

ysr1 said:


> The attic OTA goes to the coaxial splitter outside the house, from the splitter coaxial line #1 goes to the upstairs living room where I'll have the Roamio, wireless bridge, and moca adapter. Coaxial line #2 goes to the mini downstairs. Coaxial 1 connects to moca coaxial in, then moca coaxial out to Roamio. Wireless bridge connects via Ethernet to the Roamio and the moca adapter.QUOTE]
> 
> I've reread the posts, and double checked my setup, and Roamio is not communicating with the mini. The Roamio is getting a solid Ethernet and OTA signal, and is working fine. Does anyone have an idea where I'm going wrong?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

What error #? The adapter placement sounds ok, but wireless was always a crapshoot, if that's the problem. Or it's the splitter.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

I think it was C33. I'll pick up a new splitter tomorrow.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

New splitter, and the same issue...

Does the Roamio block the moca signal?


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

I called Tivo support, and was told I need another moca adapter. Please see my network laid out in the attachment. Since the Mini is moca capable I was hoping I wouldn't need another adapter. I still don't see how the moca signal gets out to the Mini. There's another coaxial line that is currently unconnected that runs between the splitter location, and living room not far from the Roamio, moca adapter, and wireless bridge if that would help. Thanks again, and sorry, this seems endless.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I think the problem might be the splitter. The MoCA signal doesn't get passed between the two legs. Assuming it is bi-directional, you need to feed the Antenna on one leg, the MoCA from the Mini to the other leg, and the single output to the MoCA adapter. IOW, use it as a _*combiner*_ rather than a splitter.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

What kind of splitter is it? Only need a second moca adapter if you want the Roamio itself on the moca network, but an ethernet connection is fine. Plus there's nowhere to put it anyway. I still think it's the wireless portion. Do you have ethernet long enough to test it by running ethernet from the moca adapter directly to the router somehow, briefly?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> What kind of splitter is it? Only need a second moca adapter if you want the Roamio itself on the moca network, but an ethernet connection is fine. Plus there's nowhere to put it anyway. I still think it's the wireless portion. Do you have ethernet long enough to test it by running ethernet from the moca adapter directly to the router somehow, briefly?


How could it be the wireless? It shouldn't even come into play for communication between the Mini and the Roamio. The should connect via what is presumably a 4-port switch integrated into the wireless bridge.

Does the Mini have internet access?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> How could it be the wireless? It shouldn't even come into play for communication between the Mini and the Roamio. The should connect via what is presumably a 4-port switch integrated into the wireless bridge.
> 
> Does the Mini have internet access?


The Mini is getting C33, so the wireless bridging between the adapter and router (how the Mini gets its connection) is sort of the pink elephant. How solid is that wireless connection? It's questionable further since there might be double wireless bridging from Roamio-to-router-to-adapter and not a direct connection at the wireless AP/switch/whatever that is.

Not sure I understand your advice about a combiner/splitter. Plain (bi-directional) splitters should work fine.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The Mini is getting C33, so the wireless bridging between the adapter and router (how the Mini gets its connection) is sort of the pink elephant. How solid is that wireless connection? It's questionable further since there might be double wireless bridging from Roamio-to-router-to-adapter and not a direct connection at the wireless AP/switch/whatever that is.


Well, a.) He _*should*_ have the wireless in the Roamio disabled. b). No Roamio can act as a wireless bridge and the base model cannot act as any kind of bridge. In any case, he said he had a solid connection to the Ethernet from the Roamio.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Not sure I understand your advice about a combiner/splitter. Plain (bi-directional) splitters should work fine.


What I am saying is that the way he has it connected, he is splitting the antenna signal, with one output going to the MoCA adapter and one going (uselessly) to the Mini. What he wants to do is feed both the antenna and the Mini to the MoCA adapter. Do signals normally flow between the two "legs" of a splitter? If they don't, then the Mini and the MoCA adapter are not connected.

Need to know if both the Roamio and the Mini can connect to the TiVo servers.


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## ysr1 (Oct 17, 2014)

It works!!!!!

The diagram works. The coaxial cable outside labeled as the Comcast line in was actually the coaxial going to the Mini. Once the cables were swapped everything started up.

Thank you all for helping me. I'm stoked!

All the best.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Well, a.) He _*should*_ have the wireless in the Roamio disabled. b). No Roamio can act as a wireless bridge and the base model cannot act as any kind of bridge. In any case, he said he had a solid connection to the Ethernet from the Roamio.


The wireless connection and bridge I was referring to was that AP in the picture. He has a solid ethernet collection to the wireless AP, not the router. In any event, he has it working now. 



lpwcomp said:


> Do signals normally flow between the two "legs" of a splitter?


Yep, that's what moca is designed to do. They go up and down splitter paths to reach entire homes. 



> It works!!!!!


Ugh, don't you hate stuff like that? Lol. Glad you were able to resolve.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The wireless connection and bridge I was referring to was that AP in the picture. He has a solid ethernet collection to the wireless AP, not the router. In any event, he has it working now. .


I was referring to this ( emphasis mine):



> It's questionable further since there might be *double wireless bridging* from Roamio-to-router-to-adapter and not a direct connection at the wireless AP/switch/whatever that is.


In any case, it is moot now.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> I was referring to this ( emphasis mine):
> 
> In any case, it is moot now.


Right, I wasn't referring to the Roamio's wireless or it acting as a bridge.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Right, I wasn't referring to the Roamio's wireless or it acting as a bridge.


So where was the potential _*double*_ bridging?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> So where was the potential _*double*_ bridging?


Not knowing how the AP/switch/whatever worked, I don't know if the AP has to talk to the router as a middle man or not between the Roamio and the adapter. If so, that'd be a double wireless jump. AP to router back to AP.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Not knowing how the AP/switch/whatever worked, I don't know if the AP has to talk to the router as a middle man or not between the Roamio and the adapter. If so, that'd be a double wireless jump. AP to router back to AP.


It shouldn't. Bridges are between networks. With both the MoCA "network" (the Mini) and the wired Ethernet "network" (the Roamio) connected to the same switch, the traffic between them doesn't use the wireless at all. Essentially, the MoCA adapter is acting as a bridge between the MoCA network that the Mini is on and the wired Ethernet network that the Roamio is on.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Gotcha. Good to know.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yep, that's what moca is designed to do. They go up and down splitter paths to reach entire homes.


I think the part lpwcomp was unaware of is that MoCA operates at a power level (dB) high enough to jump the port isolation between the legs of splitters labeled as "OUT" ports.

Saying "up and down" probably still sounds like (to the non-MoCA initiated) traversing between IN and OUT ports, which has no isolation to jump, beyond what impedance is created when pushing a signal operating above what a splitter is rated and/or normally capable of handling (rating and results can have a gap). Since CATV & OTA signals are typically never at a power level to jump isolation, they abide by the design of the splitter. MoCA has it's own set of rules, and cranks the dB of the MoCA frequency band.

Getting some (both un-initiated and initiated) to understand that even a decent quality 860MHz splitter can be quite capable of handling the greater than 1GHz MoCA frequencies, seems to be one of the biggest challenges in the MoCA threads. The splitter vendors pushing so-called "MoCA enabled" or "MoCA-enhanced" splitters, often rated at 1.2GHz (or even 2450MHz), has not been helping matters.

MoCA gave us a coax networking method, designed to work with what most already have in-place (within reason), and superior to the weaker HomePNA over coax standard, which required special splitters with weak port isolation, and the vendors have bastardized the whole thing, by making people think they need special splitters (like HomePNA did). Sad...


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## sasamaks (Dec 28, 2014)

Hello:

I have a 4-tuner roamio with a wired ethernet connection (DSL). 
I have an antenna which is plugged into the coax port on the roamio.
I am trying to set up a moca network so that i can connect 2 minis in two other bedrooms.
How can i do this if the set up keeps saying to plug my coax from the wall / adapter to the roamio, and my antenna is plugged into the roamio?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sasamaks said:


> Hello:
> 
> I have a 4-tuner roamio with a wired ethernet connection (DSL).
> I have an antenna which is plugged into the coax port on the roamio.
> ...


The 4-tuner Roamio does not have built-in MoCA, so you'll need a MoCA adapter for it. You'll also need something to bridge between the MoCA network and your Ethernet LAN.


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