# Using Playon/Playlater HD w/Tivo - I'm confused



## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm patiently waiting for my new to me Roamio Plus and one of the big features that made me switch from satellite to cable/Tivo is the ability to see various streaming available that is well integrated.



So I've been reading the pyTivo and Streambaby discussions and have to admit I'm totally confused. Is there such a thing as 'pick your stream transcoder' for dummies? It would sure help.



All I want to be able to do is see the 'channels' in Playon and recordings from Playlater, pick one and play it. Having it work with the global search would be great, but just having the ability to see and use the files created by Playon/Playlater would be good enough.



I can almost see how these programs work with Playlater mpeg4 files, but don't understand at all how it deals with streaming live.



Any simplistic, as not tech as possible, instructions/use out there??



Thanks

Lloyd


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

.mp4 PlayLater recordings should stream with StreamBaby or transfer with pyTivo just like any other video file on your PC.

To stream PlayOn channels to a Tivo (where they are actually being recorded not streaming) just add the PlayOn Plugin to your pyTiVo installation, which is very easy to do. Required files and instructions may be downloaded here:
http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/post15314.html#15314

The pyTivo plugin provides only SD quality transferred videos, MPEG2 at about 4.2 Mbps. They are still widescreen (when the video is widescreen) and look pretty decent on 42" TV's, but may be a little soft on larger screens. The primary advantage over using the PlayLater .mp4 files is the video is available to watch within a few seconds if you pull to the TiVo. MIght be quite a bit longer if you push it using the pyTivo web interface. When PlayLater records to .mp4 you have to wait until the recording completes before you can use the file. And PlayLater records at real time rates; i.e., if the video is one hour long it takes one hour to record it.

The instructions for installing pyTivo are here:
http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Windows_Install


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback.



SD only? That's not good for me as it would have to be very good SD to look acceptable on my 73" DLP.



Is there nothing that does this in HD at the moment?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

AFAIK there is no way for PlayOn to stream HD videos to a TiVo. The pyTivo plugin could possibly be modified to handle HD but that would require cooperation from MediaMall which they decline to provide. And they say they will never stream directly to a tivo because TiVo's are not proper DLNA clients.

Be advised the HD .mp4 files saved by PlayLater are limited to 720p and 3.2 Mbps. Not sure how that will look on your 73" TV.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

dlfl said:


> AFAIK there is no way for PlayOn to stream HD videos to a TiVo. The pyTivo plugin could possibly be modified to handle HD but that would require cooperation from MediaMall which they decline to provide. And they say they will never stream directly to a tivo because TiVo's are not proper DLNA clients.
> 
> Be advised the HD .mp4 files saved by PlayLater are limited to 720p and 3.2 Mbps. Not sure how that will look on your 73" TV.


OK, thanks.

I've had Playon/Playlater for a long time. The HD streams and recordings look fine on my DLP. Your realize that some of the live channels are only 720p also, I think ESPN is or at least was.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I've been doing some more reading, and the more I read the more I get confused.



I looked at the TiVo site for info about the Desktop Plus software and it seems to say that it can send .mp4 files in HD to the Tivo. But when I look to see how that is done, the confusion starts mostly because of what they don't say.



One place says it can deal with mpeg4 files and in another it indicates mpeg2 files. So would the software transcode the mpeg4 HD to mpeg2 HD and then transfer from the PC to the TiVo or am I completely off base here?



I'm not at all interested in how to get something to/on the TiVo that is in SD, I just don't like it on my 73" TV. It seems that both StreamBaby and pyTivo only end up giving you an SD end product.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I notice that it was said that StreamBaby and pyTivo do SD only as output.



But I also noticed that the Roamio Plus I've got coming can use mp4 files according to some googling. So it would seem that the desktop software should allow for a straightup transfer of the HD mp4 file.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> I'm not at all interested in how to get something to/on the TiVo that is in SD, I just don't like it on my 73" TV. It seems that both StreamBaby and pyTivo only end up giving you an SD end product.
> 
> But I also noticed that the Roamio Plus I've got coming can use mp4 files according to some googling. So it would seem that the desktop software should allow for a straightup transfer of the HD mp4 file.


Not true. Both Streambaby and pyTivo support full 1080p resolutions as well as AC-3 5.1 audio. They both work with correctly formatted mp4 files and transfer them directly without transcoding.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

jcthorne said:


> Not true. Both Streambaby and pyTivo support full 1080p resolutions as well as AC-3 5.1 audio. They both work with correctly formatted mp4 files and transfer them directly without transcoding.


Some more confusion... 

I was told earlier that they didn't do HD, is the difference because the Roamio's can handle mp4 files and the earlier models couldn't?

And if I understand correctly, Streambaby is to do streaming from something like Playon and possibly others. If you use it do you get the generally usual structure from Playon to see what is available for streaming?

And pyTivo is mostly for transferring actual files??

Sorry to be so dense, but I've done a ton of reading here about the various scenarios and there is plenty of conflicting info to try to sort through.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Some more confusion...
> 
> I was told earlier that they didn't do HD, is the difference because the Roamio's can handle mp4 files and the earlier models couldn't?
> 
> ...


What I said earlier was:


> AFAIK there is no way for PlayOn to stream HD videos to a TiVo.


This is not saying that pyTivo or StreamBaby cannot transfer/stream HD videos (from files on your PC) to a TiVo.

If StreamBaby is "to do streaming from something like Playon..." it would be news to me.

I don't think there is "plenty of conflicting info" out there. There is just a lot to absorb if you're new to it. To repeat what I've already said (in different words): If you want PlayOn/Playlater involved in sending videos to a TiVo you have two basic methods:
1. Use *PlayOn* (not PlayLater) in conjunction with pyTiVo and the PlayOn plugin for pyTivo -- this will be SD only, and it's all running on your PC.

2. Use files created (recorded) on your PC by *PlayLater* and use either pyTiVo or StreamBaby to send them to your TiVo. The pyTivo PlayOn plugin is NOT needed for this.

Yes, with pyTivo you are transferring a video file onto the TiVo. In many cases you can start viewing the video within a few seconds after the transfer begins, so it's almost like streaming. I haven't used StreamBaby for a long time but IIRC it's basically just streaming, i.e., there would be no copy of the video saved on the TiVo after viewing. However it's had some development attention and enhancements since I last used it.

It's good that you're researching the possibilities before plunging in. However there are so many details involved that there is a point of diminishing returns. I would suggest picking an approach and plunging in. Once you narrow down to specific issues (rather than abstract comparisons) you can get lots of help on the forums here.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks for the clarification.

I can see that I'll be doing an image backup of my Win8.1 box and then playing with some software as soon as Tivo gets my unit to me.

Thanks.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

One good aspect of all this is that everything we've been talking about is freeware. Except PlayOn/PlayLater which you already have. Even that has a 30 day return policy.

But like most freeware it's far from shrink-wrap and has a learning curve. For some of us, at least, that is part of the fun. Good luck!


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks to the feedback and the links, I've got pyTivo running doing pull recordings of both Playon streams and Playlater recordings. Was easier than I thought it would be, now to ensure that things all start up on the PC at boot.



Is there an advantage to having pyTivo run as a service vice just putting a .bat file in the startup routine?



I've checked video @720p from the Playon recordings and they are great, as good as anything from Dish at 720p. The 480p streams are a bit softer but perfectly watcheable. I like that trickplay works with the recordings and streams. One thing that I was surprised by was that the streams are actually recorded on the Tivo and not just streamed on the fly and gone when you stop playing them.



Now the question is why would I want Streambaby if this is working fine? Is there some advantage to it vice pyTivo?


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> Is there an advantage to having pyTivo run as a service vice just putting a .bat file in the startup routine?


PyTivo's console window will not be displayed when running pyTivo as a service.



lparsons21 said:


> Now the question is why would I want Streambaby if this is working fine? Is there some advantage to it vice pyTivo?


Streambaby streams the videos to the Tivo so they don't need to be deleted. But Tivo has a limit on the size of a video that can be streamed. Streambaby gets around this limit by stopping the video when the limit is reached and then starting a new stream from the stop point. This interruption could be annoying when watching a movie.

I don't want to get hopes up but I'm in the process of writing an UPNP client for the Tivo. I've been testing it with Playon, Plex, Serviio, and Kodi. I can navigate menus and play streams but I still need to polish it a little more. I'm hoping to release an alpha version in a week or two. This program will allow pushing a video to pyTivo or playing it as a stream.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Allanon said:


> Streambaby streams the videos to the Tivo so they don't need to be deleted. But Tivo has a limit on the size of a video that can be streamed. Streambaby gets around this limit by stopping the video when the limit is reached and then starting a new stream from the stop point. This interruption could be annoying when watching a movie.


 Newer versions of streambaby (from sourceforge site in my sig) don't have that limitation anymore - no more interruptions due to buffer size limit.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Allanon said:


> PyTivo's console window will not be displayed when running pyTivo as a service.
> 
> Streambaby streams the videos to the Tivo so they don't need to be deleted. But Tivo has a limit on the size of a video that can be streamed. Streambaby gets around this limit by stopping the video when the limit is reached and then starting a new stream from the stop point. This interruption could be annoying when watching a movie.
> 
> I don't want to get hopes up but I'm in the process of writing an UPNP client for the Tivo. I've been testing it with Playon, Plex, Serviio, and Kodi. I can navigate menus and play streams but I still need to polish it a little more. I'm hoping to release an alpha version in a week or two. This program will allow pushing a video to pyTivo or playing it as a stream.


Ah, thanks. I'll do some more reading and fiddling and set pyTivo up as a service. From what you're saying about Streambaby, it seems that I'm fine with the pyTivo works. I only need and use Playon/Playlater to fill in some holes here and there.

I did run into an issue that I hadn't expected. Recorded a Deadwood episode from HBO Go with PlayLater and then tried to get it on the Tivo. No joy! I suspect some DRM sticking its ugly head up.

I'm assuming the UPNP client you're talking about would be a hack on the Tivo itself??


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

> I'm assuming the UPNP client you're talking about would be a hack on the Tivo itself??


No, the program runs on the PC like pyTivo and Streambaby. There will be an HME interface that you access on the Tivo that will allow navigating menus and watching videos. Just think Steambaby but for UPNP media servers.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Allanon said:


> No, the program runs on the PC like pyTivo and Streambaby. There will be an HME interface that you access on the Tivo that will allow navigating menus and watching videos. Just think Steambaby but for UPNP media servers.


What's the chance that it will stream HD and not just SD as pyTivo and Streambaby do??

I have to give credit where it is due, the SD on the Roamio is so much better than the Satellite TV companies provide that it isn't at the 'horrible' stage but is nearly DVD quality, at least for many shows.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> What's the chance that it will stream HD and not just SD as pyTivo and Streambaby do??


It will support HD, but I'm not adding a trascoder since the media servers should be able to transcode the video before sending it to the Tivo. Also, pyTivo and Streambaby support HD. If you want HD from Playon you need to buy their HD upgrade and even then a lot of the content is still SD.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Allanon said:


> It will support HD, but I'm not adding a trascoder since the media servers should be able to transcode the video before sending it to the Tivo. Also, pyTivo and Streambaby support HD. If you want HD from Playon you need to buy their HD upgrade and even then a lot of the content is still SD.


I've got the HD upgrade on my Playon/Playlater license, but the only way I can get HD from them to the Tivo with pyTivo is to record in Playlater and then transfer that video. A live, on the fly decoded stream only comes in @480p.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> I've got the HD upgrade on my Playon/Playlater license, but the only way I can get HD from them to the Tivo with pyTivo is to record in Playlater and then transfer that video. A live, on the fly decoded stream only comes in @480p.


Right, as described in posts 2 and 4 of this thread. 

Hopefully Allanon's UPNP software will not have this limitation.


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