# TiVo Mini setup - Pain in the ass



## jmpage2

I ordered a TiVo Mini from TiVo that shipped out Monday, but for grins I stopped in a local Magnolia Best Buy today and they had five of them on the shelf... I could not resist and purchased it on the spot (this was the Park Meadows Colorado location).

In anticipation of hooking the Mini up, I turned on MoCA on my Tivo Elite in the networking menu and also set one tuner up for remote viewing in the cablecard menu. I actually have ethernet throughout the house, but one advantage of using MoCA is that it will allow me to leave some network switches powered off, saving power, so that's why I opted to go the MoCA route.

Plugged coax into the Mini and booted it up. Someone made a comment that the Mini takes as long to boot as the Premiere. Not even close. I actually timed it. Mini takes about 2 minutes to completely boot up, the Elite takes close to five minutes.

The Mini ran me through some kind of "guided setup", but bizarrely it never asked me about my TiVo account, or what kind of service I wanted (monthly vs. lifetime). It clearly was connected to the internet as it got access to TiVo and did the entire connection sequence.

However at this point it simply popped a screen indicating it could not find any compatible TiVos and my only option was "try again" with an error code V70. There is no way to get out of this menu other than rebooting the box (that I or support could find).

I tried to reboot the Elite (a couple of times) and rebooted the Mini. I tried switching from MoCA to ethernet and still no joy. I tried forcing connections from the Elite, still no joy.

Finally in frustration I called TiVo. TiVo told me that they would need to activate this Mini (and they were actually confused as they for a while thought I was setting up the one that was shipped out yesterday and won't be here for another couple of days).... I asked why the guided setup never offered to do that and they had no explanation.

Activated lifetime service on the Mini and then did another forced connection on the Elite and then rebooted the Mini a couple more times. Still nothing.

Finally the support guy at TiVo told me to change the name of the Elite TiVo and then try again. Bizarrely (or by coincidence) after the next reboot the Mini downloaded some extra data on the connection attempt, and prompted me to go to my Elite and enable 1 or 2 tuners if I wanted live TV. I did that and all was working (finally). The tech had no idea what it was that got it going, he said sometimes changing a device name causes something to shake loose. He also said that perhaps I should not have turned on the 1 tuner for remote viewing prior to turning the Mini on.

Total time to get a product working that should have been 10 minutes tops? 3 hours. Big fail on that one.

The Mini itself is very very cool. The slight delay in tuning channels does not bother me at all. The HD guide is super snappy and "zoom" from the guide to the currently playing show is instantaneous. It's everything that the HD menus on the Elite should be but isn't.

Also, I do not see any ability to manage recordings or season passes on the Mini. Not sure why others have reported it has that capability, from what I can see it does not.

Very good purchase. I will activate the 2nd one when it shows up and might even go for a third when dynamic tuner allocation becomes available.

The two Minis will replace a sling catcher, TiVo HD and Slingbox. All told these items can be sold for about $600 which more than covers the cost of the 1st two Minis. Will also reduce "vampire" power consumption in my home by about 70 watts, which is nothing to sneeze at. Will also get rid of one cable card and outlet fee from Comcast, which will be good for at least $5 a month off of my bill.

All around, other than the setup fiasco I am satisfied with the product.


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## compnurd

I don't recall guided setup letting you activate it always had to be done online or on phone prior


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## teklock

jmpage2 said:


> I ordered a TiVo Mini from TiVo that shipped out Monday, but for grins I stopped in a local Magnolia Best Buy today and they had five of them on the shelf... I could not resist and purchased it on the spot (this was the Park Meadows Colorado location).
> 
> In anticipation of hooking the Mini up, I turned on MoCA on my Tivo Elite in the networking menu and also set one tuner up for remote viewing in the cablecard menu. I actually have ethernet throughout the house, but one advantage of using MoCA is that it will allow me to leave some network switches powered off, saving power, so that's why I opted to go the MoCA route.
> 
> Plugged coax into the Mini and booted it up. Someone made a comment that the Mini takes as long to boot as the Premiere. Not even close. I actually timed it. Mini takes about 2 minutes to completely boot up, the Elite takes close to five minutes.
> 
> The Mini ran me through some kind of "guided setup", but bizarrely it never asked me about my TiVo account, or what kind of service I wanted (monthly vs. lifetime). It clearly was connected to the internet as it got access to TiVo and did the entire connection sequence.
> 
> However at this point it simply popped a screen indicating it could not find any compatible TiVos and my only option was "try again" with an error code V70. There is no way to get out of this menu other than rebooting the box (that I or support could find).
> 
> I tried to reboot the Elite (a couple of times) and rebooted the Mini. I tried switching from MoCA to ethernet and still no joy. I tried forcing connections from the Elite, still no joy.
> 
> Finally in frustration I called TiVo. TiVo told me that they would need to activate this Mini (and they were actually confused as they for a while thought I was setting up the one that was shipped out yesterday and won't be here for another couple of days).... I asked why the guided setup never offered to do that and they had no explanation.
> 
> Activated lifetime service on the Mini and then did another forced connection on the Elite and then rebooted the Mini a couple more times. Still nothing.
> 
> Finally the support guy at TiVo told me to change the name of the Elite TiVo and then try again. Bizarrely (or by coincidence) after the next reboot the Mini downloaded some extra data on the connection attempt, and prompted me to go to my Elite and enable 1 or 2 tuners if I wanted live TV. I did that and all was working (finally). The tech had no idea what it was that got it going, he said sometimes changing a device name causes something to shake loose. He also said that perhaps I should not have turned on the 1 tuner for remote viewing prior to turning the Mini on.
> 
> Total time to get a product working that should have been 10 minutes tops? 3 hours. Big fail on that one.
> 
> The Mini itself is very very cool. The slight delay in tuning channels does not bother me at all. The HD guide is super snappy and "zoom" from the guide to the currently playing show is instantaneous. It's everything that the HD menus on the Elite should be but isn't.
> 
> Also, I do not see any ability to manage recordings or season passes on the Mini. Not sure why others have reported it has that capability, from what I can see it does not.
> 
> Very good purchase. I will activate the 2nd one when it shows up and might even go for a third when dynamic tuner allocation becomes available.
> 
> The two Minis will replace a sling catcher, TiVo HD and Slingbox. All told these items can be sold for about $600 which more than covers the cost of the 1st two Minis. Will also reduce "vampire" power consumption in my home by about 70 watts, which is nothing to sneeze at. Will also get rid of one cable card and outlet fee from Comcast, which will be good for at least $5 a month off of my bill.
> 
> All around, other than the setup fiasco I am satisfied with the product.


RTFM man, the first step is to reg it online.


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## aaronwt

In the past I usually go to TiVo.com and get service for the TiVo before I even boot it up for the first time. Not everytime time though, but I guess I need to make sure I do that with the Mini when i get it on Friday. If the BestBuy rep is correct about my order showing up then.


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## Dan203

With a regular TiVo you can skip registration during setup and it will still be able to record and watch live TV. However you still have to activate service before it will be able to see your other TiVos on the network and do streaming. Since the Mini can only stream it makes sense that it has to be activated first.


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## jmpage2

In response to the RTFM comments, it's 2013. I don't expect to have to pick up the phone or go to a website to get something to work. At a *minimum* the device could have had a screen in the guided setup that indicated that activation prior to starting the guided setup was a requirement.

It's also worth noting that even after activating it still did not work until a bunch of other hoops were jumped through.


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## Bwatford141

This is taken directly from the "start here poster". 

1. Activate the TiVo Service on your Mini
The TiVo service is required to use your TiVo Mini. Some TiVo boxes are sold with a TiVo
service plan. If yours was not, activate the TiVo service at tivo.com/activate or call TiVo Customer Support at 1-877-367-8486. You&#8217;ll need your TiVo Service number; you can find it on the bottom of the device.
Once you have activated your service, wait 15 minutes before moving on to Step 2


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## teklock

Bwatford141 said:


> This is taken directly from the "start here poster".
> 
> 1. Activate the TiVo Service on your Mini
> The TiVo service is required to use your TiVo Mini. Some TiVo boxes are sold with a TiVo
> service plan. If yours was not, activate the TiVo service at tivo.com/activate or call TiVo Customer Support at 1-877-367-8486. Youll need your TiVo Service number; you can find it on the bottom of the device.
> Once you have activated your service, wait 15 minutes before moving on to Step 2


Can not get more clear.


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## jmpage2

What part of "even after it was activated it didn't work without jumping through hoops" don't you guys understand?


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## teklock

jmpage2 said:


> What part of "even after it was activated it didn't work without jumping through hoops" don't you guys understand?


the jumping through hoops part...


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## jmpage2

teklock said:


> the jumping through hoops part...


Even after the device was "activated" it did not work. It simply gave the same V70 error. Even after re-connecting several times, re-booting the Elite, etc, it would not work.

It was only after the TiVo support guy had me reset settings on the Elite, change the name of the Elite, reconnect it to TiVo central, reboot the Mini, then it allowed guided setup to continue.

And none of this invalidates my earlier comments. It's 2013. Having to get on a web site to activate a product or make a phone call is archaic. There's no reason that the entire activation product couldn't be done right on the device itself, or via a "master" TiVo on the same network....

It's one thing to cry "RTFM", it's another thing entirely to argue that there's no room for improvement or that the more complicated you make a simple activation the more it affects the customer experience.


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## rainwater

Dan203 said:


> With a regular TiVo you can skip registration during setup and it will still be able to record and watch live TV. However you still have to activate service before it will be able to see your other TiVos on the network and do streaming. Since the Mini can only stream it makes sense that it has to be activated first.


Exactly. There really isn't a way to have a "trial" mode on the Mini I'm guessing. So activation is required. And activation, even when done online, can take a while to take effect. Units ordered from Tivo.com are pre-activated so it shouldn't be an issue with those.


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## Dan203

The problem you ran into is that the Elite had not been updated to know that the Mini was activated on your account and allowed to connect to it. You shouldn't have needed all the rebooting, etc... Simply forcing a few calls on the Elite should have done the trick. Although even then it can take a little bit for the info to propagate through TiVo's system so a little patients is required as well. 

I guess this is one advantage to buying direct from TiVo. When you do that they pre-register it on your account for you so when you get it it's all ready to go.


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## BlackBetty

teklock said:


> RTFM man, the first step is to reg it online.


+1


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## HenryFarpolo

I took about a half hour from the time I opened the box to watching TV. The only delay was having to put in the activation code in several times before it took..... My provider is Verizon/Cablecard.


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## compnurd

Dan203 said:


> The problem you ran into is that the Elite had not been updated to know that the Mini was activated on your account and allowed to connect to it. You shouldn't have needed all the rebooting, etc... Simply forcing a few calls on the Elite should have done the trick. Although even then it can take a little bit for the info to propagate through TiVo's system so a little patients is required as well.
> 
> I guess this is one advantage to buying direct from TiVo. When you do that they pre-register it on your account for you so when you get it it's all ready to go.


What Dan said.. If you would have activated it prior online, waited the 15 minutes for your account to update you probably would have been fine


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## aaronwt

Even with my Roku 3 I got last week, I had to go to their website to activate it.


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## P42

Now that you got that off your chest jmpage2, care to tell us what you think of the product? Not everyone will have read to the end of your post.


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## Am_I_Evil

jmpage2 said:


> What part of "even after it was activated it didn't work without jumping through hoops" don't you guys understand?


well the first step was to activate...you did it out of order...hence the issues...i followed the steps exactly on the "quick start" and had absolutely no issues...


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## jmpage2

P42 said:


> Now that you got that off your chest jmpage2, care to tell us what you think of the product? Not everyone will have read to the end of your post.


I am rather impressed with the product. The speed and "recreation of the full TiVo experience" is quite impressive. I wish it had the ability to do season pass management and set up programs to record.

I would also like the ability to set each Mini for permission to delete recordings, as I might put one in a guest room and don't want guests deleting my shows after they've watched them.


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## NotNowChief

HenryFarpolo said:


> I took about a half hour from the time I opened the box to watching TV. The only delay was having to put in the activation code in several times before it took..... My provider is Verizon/Cablecard.


Are you talking about a Premiere or a Mini?


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## moyekj

jmpage2 said:


> I wish it had the ability to do season pass management and set up programs to record.


 You can schedule recordings and new season passes and modify existing ones from the Mini. You just don't have access to season pass manager which is a strange omission given that it's easily accessible via RPC protocol.


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## Loach

moyekj said:


> You can schedule recordings and new season passes and modify existing ones from the Mini. You just don't have access to season pass manager which is a strange omission given that it's easily accessible via RPC protocol.


That makes me feel better. I was having some buyer's remorse about putting in my order yesterday after reading some of the earlier posts. I'm not sure how they could call this a whole home solution if I still had to walk to the room where my P4 resides to schedule a recording.


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## rainwater

I'm guessing season pass management will come. Clearly it supports it. I'm not sure why they are holding it back though. If they added it, it would truly be a mirror of the host box which would make sense for users.


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## tatergator1

I'm dreaming here, but ideally, Tivo will be rolling out profiles for the Premiere software sometime "soon", which amongst the options for the profiles, would be assigning access rights and privileges to profiles, which would control what you see in "My Shows", whether you have delete permissions, whether you can see the SP manager, etc.

Many will remember the HDUI screen shots from way back when the Premiere was launched, indicating some sort of "profile" system. Maybe after 3 years and more momentum behind Whole Home, we might actually have a chance. 

(Let the "Tivo delivering products and enhancements in a reasonable amount of time" jokes begin.)


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## compnurd

rainwater said:


> I'm guessing season pass management will come. Clearly it supports it. I'm not sure why they are holding it back though. If they added it, it would truly be a mirror of the host box which would make sense for users.


I do also. I think we will see alot of updates as this thing moves on.. I mean hell iOS is always at least 1 or 2 software updates behind android in terms of features It is a brand new product give it time


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## jmpage2

Profiles would be great.... you might want to put a Mini in a kids room and restrict content and channel lists. A Mini in a guest room, you might want to lock down for things like show deletion, etc.

If nothing else it would seem possible to allow administration of these types of things from TiVo.com.


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## jmpage2

moyekj said:


> You can schedule recordings and new season passes and modify existing ones from the Mini. You just don't have access to season pass manager which is a strange omission given that it's easily accessible via RPC protocol.


How do you do it? At first glance I simply noticed that the Season Pass Manager was missing.


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## moyekj

jmpage2 said:


> How do you do it? At first glance I simply noticed that the Season Pass Manager was missing.


 For scheduling new stuff you can do it from Guide or from Search just like normal. For changing existing SP options you can browse to an existing episode on the host TiVo from My Shows and push into it and edit SP options there.


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## jmpage2

moyekj said:


> For scheduling new stuff you can do it from Guide or from Search just like normal. For changing existing SP options you can browse to an existing episode on the host TiVo from My Shows and push into it and edit SP options there.


Thanks. It seems they are making it more complicated than necessary, should just put the stupid SP manager right on the Mini. With its speed it would be a pleasure to manage a season pass or set up a new recording from the Mini.


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## Dan203

tatergator1 said:


> I'm dreaming here, but ideally, Tivo will be rolling out profiles for the Premiere software sometime "soon", which amongst the options for the profiles, would be assigning access rights and privileges to profiles, which would control what you see in "My Shows", whether you have delete permissions, whether you can see the SP manager, etc.
> 
> Many will remember the HDUI screen shots from way back when the Premiere was launched, indicating some sort of "profile" system. Maybe after 3 years and more momentum behind Whole Home, we might actually have a chance.
> 
> (Let the "Tivo delivering products and enhancements in a reasonable amount of time" jokes begin.)


I think this is the next step in their whole home plan.

And they don't really need to add "rights" to delete recordings. They can simply use a reference count. So basically if the same show is recorded by multiple users then they will share the same recording, and each user can delete the recording from their My Shows, but it wont actually be available to be overwritten until all users have deleted it and the reference count is 0.


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## HenryFarpolo

NotNowChief said:


> Are you talking about a Premiere or a Mini?


Mini!!


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## jfh3

Well, this was by far the easiest and fastest TiVo product set up I've ever had. My Mini was ordered from Tivo and had lifetime already associated with it. 

About 20 minutes and most of that was trying to find the remote for the host Tivo so I could allow the Mini to use tuners.

One thing that surprised me a bit was the that the default My Shows list was that from the host DVR though that can be changed in the "Remote & Devices" menu on the Mini.


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## NotNowChief

HenryFarpolo said:


> Mini!!


LOL so what did you need an activation number and cable card for? In confused. You mean the media access key?


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## NotNowChief

jfh3 said:


> Well, this was by far the easiest and fastest TiVo product set up I've ever had. My Mini was ordered from Tivo and had lifetime already associated with it.
> 
> About 20 minutes and most of that was trying to find the remote for the host Tivo so I could allow the Mini to use tuners.
> 
> One thing that surprised me a bit was the that the default My Shows list was that from the host DVR though that can be changed in the "Remote & Devices" menu on the Mini.


Hearing this makes me very interested to see if eventually this thing is gonna work with 2-tuner boxes once they get this dynamic tuner allocation squared away.


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## Gromit

Just got my first mini setup and everything is working great.

I'm in a condo. I ordered a POE filter, but I don't think I need it. Or put another way, I have no idea where I could put it that would actually work. I tried adding it before my cable modem but I couldn't get an internet connection. Plus, I'm not sure it would help there anyway.

Setup took a few minutes, but I expected that. The mini was already activated since I ordered from TiVo. 

No issues getting on my network (MoCA). My setup - cable modem to Apple Airport Extreme with a second AE in the living room connected wirelessly to the first. My XL4 is connected to that router via ethernet. The mini is working fine via MoCA.

No complaints about the time required to change channels. I just switched from DirecTV and I think it's a bit faster than their HD-DVR was.

Oh, my TX/RX rates are 239/244.


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## Dan203

NotNowChief said:


> Hearing this makes me very interested to see if eventually this thing is gonna work with 2-tuner boxes once they get this dynamic tuner allocation squared away.


He's wrong. You can only select 4 tuner devices from that list. The only way to stream from a 2 tuner is to pick it from the bottom of My Shows like you would from another TiVo. The default My Shows for the Mini is always the host it's linked to.


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## Dan203

Gromit said:


> I'm in a condo. I ordered a POE filter, but I don't think I need it. Or put another way, I have no idea where I could put it that would actually work. I tried adding it before my cable modem but I couldn't get an internet connection. Plus, I'm not sure it would help there anyway.


If the POE filter blocks your internet connection then it's broken. It's only suppose to block frequencies that are outside the range of normal cable operations. I've seen others who had the same problem and exchanging the POE filter for another one fixed the issue. Like anything these things can have defects that cause them not to function correctly.


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## Gromit

Dan203 said:


> If the POE filter blocks your internet connection then it's broken. It's only suppose to block frequencies that are outside the range of normal cable operations. I've seen others who had the same problem and exchanging the POE filter for another one fixed the issue. Like anything these things can have defects that cause them not to function correctly.


Thanks, I'll try it again to make sure and contact TiVo if it's not working.

Am I thinking correctly that I can (and should) use the filter even though I can't place it where the line comes into the condo? My modem and primary router are in the guest bedroom/office. But the XL4 is in the living room connected to the internet through a second router, and a coax connection for the TV signal. I'm not sure if the filter should go before the modem or the XL4.


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## jmatero

Not to concerned with the season passes, etc on the mini. I use my iPhone or iPad for that as it's a better experience than using the premiere itself.


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## Loach

Gromit said:


> Thanks, I'll try it again to make sure and contact TiVo if it's not working.
> 
> Am I thinking correctly that I can (and should) use the filter even though I can't place it where the line comes into the condo? My modem and primary router are in the guest bedroom/office. But the XL4 is in the living room connected to the internet through a second router, and a coax connection for the TV signal. I'm not sure if the filter should go before the modem or the XL4.


Is there a splitter accessible somewhere that splits out your coax runs to the various rooms? If so, the POE filter should go on the input side of that splitter.


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## UCLABB

jmatero said:


> Not to concerned with the season passes, etc on the mini. I use my iPhone or iPad for that as it's a better experience than using the premiere itself.


Agree, much easier to navigate on the iPad versus the Premiere. Plus you can do it without interrupting what's on TV.


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## Gromit

Loach said:


> Is there a splitter accessible somewhere that splits out your coax runs to the various rooms? If so, the POE filter should go on the input side of that splitter.


Not that I know of, but I'll ask. I just moved in a couple of weeks ago.


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## Dan203

Why do you have two routers? You should only ever have one. Having two can cause all sorts of weird conflicts. A router is a way to share a single internet connection with multiple devices. Once you're inside your network you should only ever use switches to add additional ports.


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## HenryFarpolo

NotNowChief said:


> LOL so what did you need an activation number and cable card for? In confused. You mean the media access key?


LOL..Why? The "activation code", I refer to is the TSN required in the activation process. In my short post, I did not say I needed a cablecard. I simply cited my provider. Still confused??


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## Gromit

Dan203 said:


> Why do you have two routers? You should only ever have one. Having two can cause all sorts of weird conflicts. A router is a way to share a single internet connection with multiple devices. Once you're inside your network you should only ever use switches to add additional ports.


The second is just acting as a wireless bridge.

I have 2 because in the house I moved from, I had one in the basement (where the modem is) and a second 2 floors up for better wireless coverage.


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## Dan203

Once you have the MoCa up and running you'll no longer need the Wifi bridge. If you need to increase coverage you should convert it to an access point instead.


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## Philmatic

Dan203 said:


> Once you have the MoCa up and running you'll no longer need the Wifi bridge. If you need to increase coverage you should convert it to an access point instead.


:up::up::up:


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## Loach

Dan203 said:


> Once you have the MoCa up and running you'll no longer need the Wifi bridge.


It sounds like he's using his XL4 as the MoCA bridge and it is not in a room with wired Ethernet (connected to Ethernet via the Wifi bridge).

I would think he's going to have to put a MoCA adapter at his router to serve as the MoCA bridge in order to lose the Wifi bridge.


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## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Why do you have two routers? You should only ever have one. Having two can cause all sorts of weird conflicts. A router is a way to share a single internet connection with multiple devices. Once you're inside your network you should only ever use switches to add additional ports.


Years ago I used two routers on FiOS, when I had one of their STBs which was connected over MoCA to the FiOS router. But I never had any issues with double NAT. My personal router was setup as the primary router. It was rock solid with over fifty devices at the time on the network.

I had also used it with the FiOS router as the primary. Still no issues.


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## Dan203

Yes but if they are both setup to hand out DHCP then you can get IP conflicts.


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## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Yes but if they are both setup to hand out DHCP then you can get IP conflicts.


Yes they were setup that way. But with completely different IP address ranges. So conflicts were never a possibility. Plus I use non standard IP addresses for my home network.(ie. 221.214.xx.xxx). I've been using those since the late 90's without issue.


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## NotNowChief

HenryFarpolo said:


> LOL..Why? The "activation code", I refer to is the TSN required in the activation process. In my short post, I did not say I needed a cablecard. I simply cited my provider. Still confused??


Your terminology confused me.

A TSN is the TiVo service number, a serial number; not an activation code.
An activation code (in FiOS language) is the 5 or 6 digit code they give you to self-install a cable card, which was implied when you mentioned your provider, not a TSN.

So I was confused when you "mentioned" a cable card and activation code when referring to a Mini, because you need the cable card and activation code to set up a DVR. To set up the Mini, I presume you only need the TSN and Media Access Key.


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## Gromit

Now that I have MoCA up and running, I may replace the 2nd Airport Extreme with a switch. I just hooked it up because I had it and I wanted to get everything connected after moving in.

On the other hand, it works and if I replace it with a switch I'll just put it in a closet to collect dust.


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## lew

jmpage2 said:


> In response to the RTFM comments, it's 2013. I don't expect to have to pick up the phone or go to a website to get something to work. At a *minimum* the device could have had a screen in the guided setup that indicated that activation prior to starting the guided setup was a requirement.
> 
> It's also worth noting that even after activating it still did not work until a bunch of other hoops were jumped through.


You don't expect to have to read directions either. I frequently like to "wing it" but I wouldn't complain if I didn't correctly guess the correct installation procedure.



Dan203 said:


> Why do you have two routers? You should only ever have one. Having two can cause all sorts of weird conflicts. A router is a way to share a single internet connection with multiple devices. Once you're inside your network you should only ever use switches to add additional ports.


Configuring a router as an access point (bridge mode?) makes sense. I was able to use an old router (flashed with dd-wrt firmware) as free way to get good wireless with a tivo. It took a few minutes to convince the FiOS installer that the box labeled as a router, connected to my tivo, wasn't really a router.


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## jmpage2

2nd TiVo Mini went much smoother. Total setup 10-15 minutes including boot up. Clearly pre-activation is the way to go.


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## aaronwt

10 to 15 minutes sounds pretty good.


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## NotNowChief

According to UPS, mine's on the truck for delivery today. I can't wait to get home from work and check it out! Hopefully setup is smooth. I actually got the welcome e-mail last night, and it specifically shows the welcome poster in the box with regards to enabling a tuner for use on the host DVR.


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## jjd_87

NotNowChief said:


> According to UPS, mine's on the truck for delivery today. I can't wait to get home from work and check it out! Hopefully setup is smooth. I actually got the welcome e-mail last night, and it specifically shows the welcome poster in the box with regards to enabling a tuner for use on the host DVR.


Me too! I'm excited to get home and check it out!


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## Dan203

NotNowChief said:


> According to UPS, mine's on the truck for delivery today. I can't wait to get home from work and check it out! Hopefully setup is smooth. I actually got the welcome e-mail last night, and it specifically shows the welcome poster in the box with regards to enabling a tuner for use on the host DVR.


Today is the day you get to see a unicorn. :up:


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## bdraw

Although I agree that reading the directions saves time and frustration, I also agree that the out of the box Mini experience could be better.

For example, the error you receive if your P4 hasn't phoned home since activating the Mini should be clearer instead of referring to the more obscure error code. But even better, there should be be a troubleshooting screen that lets you verify the Mini is connected to the network and a list of TiVos on that network and why they can't be connected to (two tuner, not activated on the same account etc.).

Bottom line is that I read direction first and it still took almost two hours before I could use the Mini because of the time it takes for the devices to phone home.


----------



## jmpage2

I agree with everything you just said. TiVo makes it pretty painless to set the Mini up if you order from them. If you buy one locally it is more difficult than it needs to be.


----------



## bdraw

jmpage2 said:


> I agree with everything you just said. TiVo makes it pretty painless to set the Mini up if you order from them. If you buy one locally it is more difficult than it needs to be.


TiVo sent me the unit directly and even activated for me. Still was a pita.


----------



## jmpage2

bdraw said:


> TiVo sent me the unit directly and even activated for me. Still was a pita.


Interesting. In my case, my Elite had already "phoned home" and knew about the Mini that I ordered directly from TiVo.

In any event, I do this kind of stuff for a living (product introduction engineering) and there's a ton of room for improvement here. I have a feeling that TiVos development budget is being directed towards new features with very little work being done to make the product easier for the user to install.


----------



## Dan203

The Mini's primary target is actually MSOs who have trained installers that do the setup. So they may not have as much effort into simplify the setup process as they could have.


----------



## jmpage2

My suspicion is that the current XL4 model is going to become the "nearly free" base level model in TiVo's lineup sometime later this year (with a new six tuner unit with faster silicon becoming the high-end model). At that point they will be selling a whole lot more of these Minis and the install process with units purchased at retail has to be as foolproof as possible.

I'm an engineer and rarely read directions when dealing with consumer level gear. If I can install a $100,000 router by the skin of my teeth then a $99 piece of hardware should not be this difficult. Admittedly, it's "on me" to some degree with the activation SNAFU, but even after that it took over an hour to get the unit working. Many users would give up and return the equipment.

A lot of the trouble has to do with the entire activation->phone home->check status loop that is required to add a new piece of equipment and have it authorized for use on an account.

There are alternative licensing/activation schemes that more or less completely circumvent this sort of thing. Would be nice if they moved in that direction at some point.


----------



## Dan203

A major overhaul of their licensing/activation system isn't very likely right now. They may revamp the Mini setup screens to allow you to force a quick connection or remind you that you may need to do that on the host TiVo as well, but I doubt they're going to revamp the whole activation system any time soon.

Plus if they're selling bundles then all devices will be pre-activated and the TiVo will need to be setup first, so the process should be a lot more seamless then it is when adding one to an existing setup.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> A major overhaul of their licensing/activation system isn't very likely right now. They may revamp the Mini setup screens to allow you to force a quick connection or remind you that you may need to do that on the host TiVo as well, but I doubt they're going to revamp the whole activation system any time soon.
> 
> Plus if they're selling bundles then all devices will be pre-activated and the TiVo will need to be setup first, so the process should be a lot more seamless then it is when adding one to an existing setup.


But only when ordering it directly from TiVo.

I ordered my Minis from BestBuy because there was less out of pocket expense for me(because of gift cards and reward zone dollars). Plus BestBuy has a four year warranty option. Which can come in handy if/when I sell the Mini when/if a newer model shows up in a few years.


----------



## Dan203

That's true. I still think that the best we'll see if better on screen instructions. I just don't see TiVo completely changing how the activation process works.


----------



## redbeard25

jmpage2 said:


> Interesting. In my case, my Elite had already "phoned home" and knew about the Mini that I ordered directly from TiVo.
> 
> In any event, I do this kind of stuff for a living (product introduction engineering) and there's a ton of room for improvement here. I have a feeling that TiVos development budget is being directed towards new features with very little work being done to make the product easier for the user to install.


Mine too. My setup experience with the unit from Tivo was exactly opposite the original poster's. I think maybe getting it before Tivo was ready to release might have contributed to the problem.


----------



## jmpage2

redbeard25 said:


> Mine too. My setup experience with the unit from Tivo was exactly opposite the original poster's. I think maybe getting it before Tivo was ready to release might have contributed to the problem.


LOL, I am the original poster. The Mini I bought at retail was a major PITA to set up. The one that I ordered from TiVo practically set itself up, as the Elite had already phoned home and knew about the Mini.


----------



## aaronwt

The retail one I got from BestBuy and I setup this evening was a breeze. But that was mainly because of this thread. The first thing I did was subscribe the Mini to the TiVo service. Then I had my three Premieres connect over the internet to the TiVo service. Then, while they were connecting I booted the Mini. After I went through the setup of the Mini it could see my boxes and the recordings on them. (The other day I had already setup one of my Elites to use one tuner with a Mini)

The only issue I had was that I forgot there was a software update. So I didn't reboot the Mini after if got the update. Without the update the "My Shows" list from my two tuner Premiere was showing up with an SD screen. Once I rebooted the Mini and the update was installed the My Shows list was an HD screen(The MY Shows lists from my ELites were always fine)

I'm also using a Slide remote with the Mini and it's working very well with it. I should get my second Elite tomorrow form BestBuy. At least that is when it's supposed to be delivered. Based on my use of the Mini this evening I will go ahead and keep the second one and use one in a bedroom and the other one will be used where one of my Elites are located. For the faster menu access. It's certainly much faster using the search function on the Mini than the Elite.


----------



## sbiller

aaronwt said:


> The retail one I got from BestBuy and I setup this evening was a breeze. But that was mainly because of this thread. The first thing I did was subscribe the Mini to the TiVo service. Then I had my three Premieres connect over the internet to the TiVo service. Then, while they were connecting I booted the Mini. After I went through the setup of the Mini it could see my boxes and the recordings on them. (The other day I had already setup one of my Elites to use one tuner with a Mini)
> 
> The only issue I had was that I forgot there was a software update. So I didn't reboot the Mini after if got the update. Without the update the "My Shows" list from my two tuner Premiere was showing up with an SD screen. Once I rebooted the Mini and the update was installed the My Shows list was an HD screen(The MY Shows lists from my ELites were always fine)
> 
> I'm also using a Slide remote with the Mini and it's working very well with it. I should get my second Elite tomorrow form BestBuy. At least that is when it's supposed to be delivered. Based on my use of the Mini this evening I will go ahead and keep the second one and use one in a bedroom and the other one will be used where one of my Elites are located. For the faster menu access. It's certainly much faster using the search function on the Mini than the Elite.


Can you tell us what happens if you disconnect the Elite/XL4 from the network? Does the Mini keep working and have access to the recordings on your 2-tuner Premiere?


----------



## aaronwt

sbiller said:


> Can you tell us what happens if you disconnect the Elite/XL4 from the network? Does the Mini keep working and have access to the recordings on your 2-tuner Premiere?


I just tried it. I was streaming a channel from the Elite the Mini is linked to when I pulled the Ethernet cord from the Elite. The Mini said it lost the connection. When I went back to the My Shows list, the My Shows list showed up for a brief second then disappeared and then a message at the top said that I didn't have a connection to that Elite.

In the My Shows list it still shows my second Elite and my two tuner Premiere. I was still able to browse those "My Show" lists and play back content from them. I was also still able to play back content from Hulu Plus on the Mini.

Edit: Pandora is also working.

EDIT: Everytime I go to "My Shows" It first comes up with a message saying it lost the connection to the ELite it was linked to. I hit OK and then the only thing in the "My Shows" list are the Elite and Premiere I have. Then I can select either one to view their recordings.

No idea how long this lasts but I've had the Elite disconnected for ten minutes and I still have access to the other Elite and the two tuner Premiere.


----------



## jano18

I set mine up tonight with my XL4 & connected my slide. I even got it working with my Roomie Remote iOS software with a few minor exceptions. I set it up without an issues in what I think was a reasonable amount of time.


----------



## slowbiscuit

aaronwt said:


> I just tried it. I was streaming a channel from the Elite the Mini is linked to when I pulled the Ethernet cord from the Elite. The Mini said it lost the connection. When I went back to the My Shows list, the My Shows list showed up for a brief second then disappeared and then a message at the top said that I didn't have a connection to that Elite.
> 
> In the My Shows list it still shows my second Elite and my two tuner Premiere. I was still able to browse those "My Show" lists and play back content from them. I was also still able to play back content from Hulu Plus on the Mini.
> 
> Edit: Pandora is also working.
> 
> EDIT: Everytime I go to "My Shows" It first comes up with a message saying it lost the connection to the ELite it was linked to. I hit OK and then the only thing in the "My Shows" list are the Elite and Premiere I have. Then I can select either one to view their recordings.
> 
> No idea how long this lasts but I've had the Elite disconnected for ten minutes and I still have access to the other Elite and the two tuner Premiere.


So... what I posted in the 2-tuner rant thread might be true, at least until Tivo closes the loophole - you don't have to have a 4-tuner box to use the Mini after you set it up with one, so you can simply buy and return a 4-tuner to get it working if all you have is 2-tuners.


----------



## NotNowChief

Dan203 said:


> Today is the day you get to see a unicorn. :up:


I wouldn't be kidding if I said I was a bit sheepish opening the box. All the waiting, the frustration, and most importantly, the DISBELIEF. It REALLY exists!

A real unicorn sat there right in front of me.

I never thought I would see the day.

Setup wasnt too bad, I did a temp setup of it just to test it and make sure it worked. I was honestly amazed at how fast the MoCA streaming was from the Elite to the Mini. Fast-Forwarding and all. I elected to NOT lock down the tuner (after confirming it worked) and use it for streaming only.

I think the most annoying part of the install was having to turn the computer on to put in that stupid access code to enable the Pandora. It was THAT easy.

Next project: finding a nice compact swiveling wall mount with a VESA 100X100 for my kitchen TV that I can rig an additional mounting surface or bracket to for the Mini. Off to Mono***** I go!


----------



## StupidFatHobbit

aaronwt said:


> I just tried it. I was streaming a channel from the Elite the Mini is linked to when I pulled the Ethernet cord from the Elite. The Mini said it lost the connection. When I went back to the My Shows list, the My Shows list showed up for a brief second then disappeared and then a message at the top said that I didn't have a connection to that Elite.
> 
> In the My Shows list it still shows my second Elite and my two tuner Premiere. I was still able to browse those "My Show" lists and play back content from them. I was also still able to play back content from Hulu Plus on the Mini.
> 
> Edit: Pandora is also working.
> 
> EDIT: Everytime I go to "My Shows" It first comes up with a message saying it lost the connection to the ELite it was linked to. I hit OK and then the only thing in the "My Shows" list are the Elite and Premiere I have. Then I can select either one to view their recordings.
> 
> No idea how long this lasts but I've had the Elite disconnected for ten minutes and I still have access to the other Elite and the two tuner Premiere.


If you still have it disconnected: it would be a good test to reboot the mini with the XL4 off the network. Any return of the XL4 would require the mini be fully self-sufficient.


----------



## NotNowChief

When will we see the arbitrary complaint thread created that the "Mini cannot stream from Series 3/HD"?


----------



## aaronwt

StupidFatHobbit said:


> If you still have it disconnected: it would be a good test to reboot the mini with the XL4 off the network. Any return of the XL4 would require the mini be fully self-sufficient.


I'll have to try that tonight.


----------



## atmuscarella

NotNowChief said:


> When will we see the arbitrary complaint thread created that the "Mini cannot stream from Series 3/HD"?


I am guessing that most people made that assumption because they already new you couldn't stream from a Series 3 unit to a Premiere. Another one of those areas where I wonder if it is technical or not. In any event it doesn't matter as I doubt TiVo is going to be updating the Series 3 units anymore.


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## slowbiscuit

StupidFatHobbit said:


> If you still have it disconnected: it would be a good test to reboot the mini with the XL4 off the network. Any return of the XL4 would require the mini be fully self-sufficient.





aaronwt said:


> I'll have to try that tonight.


And if that works, disconnect your other 4-tuner so that all you have left is the 2, then reboot the Mini and see if it still works.


----------



## HarperVision

jano18 said:


> I set mine up tonight with my XL4 & connected my slide. I even got it working with my Roomie Remote iOS software with a few minor exceptions. I set it up without an issues in what I think was a reasonable amount of time.


Can you elaborate on that? I also use roomie and have a couple minis on the way.


----------



## Dan203

atmuscarella said:


> I am guessing that most people made that assumption because they already new you couldn't stream from a Series 3 unit to a Premiere. Another one of those areas where I wonder if it is technical or not. In any event it doesn't matter as I doubt TiVo is going to be updating the Series 3 units anymore.


The S3 units could easily be updated to support streaming. But they'll never do it. That's a Premiere exclusive feature and something TiVo uses to get people to move up to the new platform.


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## jmpage2

Exactly, just as the Mini is a carrot to encourage users to upgrade to 4 tuner units.


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## Dan203

That was probably a minor part of their thinking, but I really think that the main reason they don't work with 2 tuner units in the live TV thing. If they really wanted to sell more boxes they would have just held it back from retail until the new model TiVos were out later this year (hopefully) and then made it only work with them.


----------



## jmpage2

Dan203 said:


> That was probably a minor part of their thinking, but I really think that the main reason they don't work with 2 tuner units in the live TV thing. If they really wanted to sell more boxes they would have just held it back from retail until the new model TiVos were out later this year (hopefully) and then made it only work with them.


If that was the case then they would lift the restriction on using Minis with two tuner Premieres as soon as dynamic tuner allocation is available, but they've clearly said they aren't going to do that.


----------



## Dan203

jmpage2 said:


> If that was the case then they would lift the restriction on using Minis with two tuner Premieres as soon as dynamic tuner allocation is available, but they've clearly said they aren't going to do that.


One guy in an interview said that. It's not guaranteed yet.

And even with dynamic tuner allocation the "experience" is still degraded because if you're watching live TV on the host and the Mini at the same time there are no tuners available for recording.

I'm betting that even after dynamic tuner allocation hits you'll still only be able to assign 2 tuners for network use on a 4 tuner box. That way between the Minis and local live TV there will still always be one tuner available for recording.


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## jmpage2

I think that the current situation is nothing but a holdover until they can get a six unit premiere with newer silicon on store shelves, probably end of this year or early next.


----------



## Dan203

I completely agree. Something new is coming. Which is why I think that if their primary goal was to get people to buy new units then they would have just held the Mini back from retail until the new units were released and then made it do the Mini only supported the new units.

While selling a few more 4 tuner units is icing on the cake. I really do believe that a fear of diminished user experience and support issues was the primary reason for current 4 tuner requirement.


----------



## Arcady

Yes. The TiVo Mini box says "compatible with any TiVo with four or more tuners" right on the front.

Four or more? Obviously they will make a box with more than four or they wouldn't write that on the box. (And they could have just written "compatible with Premiere 4 and XL4" if no new boxes were coming soon.)

A six-tuner box won't get me to buy a Mini. It will get me to move my Elite to the den and add a six-tuner to the living room. And I'll just sell a two-tuner box.


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## jmpage2

Printing it on the box doesn't mean much, other than that they don't want to have to re-print boxes sometime later on.... I do though believe we will see a refresh before another 12 months have elapsed.


----------



## Digital Man

I ordered my Mini from Best Buy, so it won't come pre-activated.

I understand I first need to activate it and add it to my account on the Tivo website, before plugging it in.

Then above it says I should force my XL4 to "call home" so that it is aware that my Mini has been added to my account.

My question is how do I make my XL4 "call home"?

Thanks,
DM


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## jmpage2

Go into settings-> network and choose "force network connection".


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## todd_j_derr

Well, I got my minis today and while I have to admit I scoffed a bit at this thread, now I'm apparently in the same boat. The mini can see both of my XL4s but i can't select either of them (error V70) - after an hour and a half of screwing around on the minis, XL4s, and tivo.com and still no joy. I ordered directly from TiVo so they were already activated. I suspect the XL4 has to complete a call, but it's going unbearably slowly for some reason. Although, it already called in at 1pm so I'd have to imagine the minis were already on my account by then.


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## Dan203

Maybe you just need to reboot the XL4


----------



## todd_j_derr

At this point I'm going to leave it overnight but I'll try a reboot in the AM if it's still not working.

BTW, I saw some speculation it was possible to set up a mini without dedicating a tuner at all, but from the documentation that doesn't seem to be true; I suspect that may be the root of my current issues. I had both my elites set to "no tuners". Since I bought from TiVo the minis were already on my account, and both TiVos did complete a call earlier today. I switched the setting to "1 tuner" on one of them a couple hours ago but it hasn't completed a call since then.


----------



## aaronwt

I set up my second Mini tonight. I did the same thing as my first one. I activated it online and then had all my Premieres make a connection to TiVo. When the Mini booted and I went through the setup I could see my two Elites and my Premiere. Total time was no more than 15 minutes. 

Although this time, after it was setup, I had it connect again to download the update and then rebooted to install the update right away.


----------



## jmpage2

todd_j_derr said:


> At this point I'm going to leave it overnight but I'll try a reboot in the AM if it's still not working.
> 
> BTW, I saw some speculation it was possible to set up a mini without dedicating a tuner at all, but from the documentation that doesn't seem to be true; I suspect that may be the root of my current issues. I had both my elites set to "no tuners". Since I bought from TiVo the minis were already on my account, and both TiVos did complete a call earlier today. I switched the setting to "1 tuner" on one of them a couple hours ago but it hasn't completed a call since then.


The TiVo does not need to complete a call after activating a tuner. It just needs to phone home to see that the Minis are on the account and vice versa.

I would recommend trying to rename one of your Elites, then have it re-phone home, then reboot the Minis. That's what finally did the trick for me on my first Mini after things got badly hosed during the activation process.

You do have the option not to use a tuner. When my first Mini finally activated it simply told me to go to my elite and enable 1 tuner if I wanted access to live TV from the Mini, it would have been perfectly happy if I had not done this.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Thanks - good to hear the tuner isn't the problem. Forcing a call is taking forever (2+ hours and it's at 84%) for some reason. I ran speedtest from that room and got ~25Mbit up and down so it's certainly not a network problem. But, I fear even when it completes it's not going to work since it did a call <12hr ago and the minis were likely on my account before that (I didn't check, but the second mini which is still in the box is listed as active so connecting it is not a prerequisite).


----------



## todd_j_derr

Call finished finally, rebooted the mini, same state. I'll try rebooting/renaming the XL4s in the morning.


----------



## teklock

todd_j_derr said:


> Call finished finally, rebooted the mini, same state. I'll try rebooting/renaming the XL4s in the morning.


Rename your XL4 to something else and reboot.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I renamed the XL4 (from the unit), rebooted it, and forced a call (actually it did that itself after the reboot, which took ~3 min this time instead of ~3 hr, then I forced another call just to be sure).

Mini sees the new name (even before I rebooted it), but still greyed out/red slash... Argh! Guess it's time to call TiVo.


----------



## jmpage2

The V70 error refers to the Mini not being on the same account as the XL4, so I'd start there. Maybe when they shipped you the units they put in the wrong TSNs for the Minis on your account.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Yeah, I just double checked that and they are all on the account and correct. Also checked the units themselves to make sure it wasn't a misprint on the box.

I'm trying mini #2 now, we'll see...

(Edit: I also re-checked video sharing + download boxes are checked, which was the first thing I did last night.)


----------



## todd_j_derr

No luck - same situation on this mini. Hope TiVo support is open on the weekend.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Well, wasted another hour of my life with support only to have them blame my network. To humor them I plugged the mini and one of the tivos directly into my router and rebooted everything, no change.

At one point he says "The "successful" connections currently that have been made were made 48 hours ago, any connections since have been ping connections that have not completed." I asked him 3 times whether there was any way for me to tell the difference between the two, and he ignored my question every time. I tried his suggested remedy ("Test Internet Connection" followed by "Connect to the Tivo Service Now"), which succeeded. Then he claims "The updated test connection will not be able to be displayed on this end until the systems update within the next two hour window.". Eventually he took advantage of me being away from the keyboard for a couple minutes to screw around with things to just disconnect the chat.

Not very happy at this point, and 3-4 hours of my time down the drain so far... I guess I will try phone support this time.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Wow, the guy I got on phone support was 1000x better than the guy I had on chat. We went through the same preliminaries again, but he gave me a lot more detail about what he was looking at, and when he couldn't determine the problem he put me on hold to escalate instead of trying to pin it on me.

I didn't press him for too much detail, but he was reading through a list of "group permissions" for the devices that seemed to be related to subscription, streaming, etc. He thought everything looked correct there, but after he got back from hold he said the part he didn't notice initially was that the permissions were not yet effective and they may take 24-48 hours to propagate. It wasn't clear to me what initiated the process (Tivo dialing in, or GS on the mini, or if it was manually done by the prior support guy), but anyways... he was very apologetic about it and said there wasn't anything I could do but wait. so, not the answer I wanted to hear but way better than the "must be your fault because everything is fine on our end" crap I got from the other guy.


----------



## todd_j_derr

BTW, while I was messing around on the XL4 I did notice something I'd never seen before. If you go to Settings->Help->Multiple TiVo Boxes->Streaming Between TiVo Boxes->Multi-room advanced help (how's that for being buried?) there's a list of other boxes on your network.

So, at least that gave me some confirmation the Tivo could see the Mini, and it does give some details like IP address, S/W Version, and Tivo service # - there's no way to see that information on the mini itself when you're stuck in GS. So at least I could validate the IP address and S/N - I was starting to wonder if the S/N stamped on the unit was incorrect or something.


----------



## aaronwt

todd_j_derr said:


> BTW, while I was messing around on the XL4 I did notice something I'd never seen before. If you go to Settings->Help->Multiple TiVo Boxes->Streaming Between TiVo Boxes->Multi-room advanced help (how's that for being buried?) there's a list of other boxes on your network.
> 
> So, at least that gave me some confirmation the Tivo could see the Mini, and it does give some details like IP address, S/W Version, and Tivo service # - there's no way to see that information on the mini itself when you're stuck in GS. So at least I could validate the IP address and S/N - I was starting to wonder if the S/N stamped on the unit was incorrect or something.


I've never seen that page before. I just looked at it and what's weird is that it's showing a MoCA connection between both of my Elite boxes. But MoCA is also supposed to be turned off on both boxes.


----------



## jmpage2

todd_j_derr said:


> Wow, the guy I got on phone support was 1000x better than the guy I had on chat. We went through the same preliminaries again, but he gave me a lot more detail about what he was looking at, and when he couldn't determine the problem he put me on hold to escalate instead of trying to pin it on me.
> 
> I didn't press him for too much detail, but he was reading through a list of "group permissions" for the devices that seemed to be related to subscription, streaming, etc. He thought everything looked correct there, but after he got back from hold he said the part he didn't notice initially was that the permissions were not yet effective and they may take 24-48 hours to propagate. It wasn't clear to me what initiated the process (Tivo dialing in, or GS on the mini, or if it was manually done by the prior support guy), but anyways... he was very apologetic about it and said there wasn't anything I could do but wait. so, not the answer I wanted to hear but way better than the "must be your fault because everything is fine on our end" crap I got from the other guy.


I'm not sure if I buy that. It's been days since your boxes were ordered so the permissions should have been good from the start.

Both my Best Buy purchased unit and the one I ordered directly from TiVo did not have to wait 24-48 hours to work.

Definitely to me it sounds like they screwed something up with those boxes when they added them to your account. To prove that's the case I would buy a TiVo Mini at a local Best Buy (assuming you can do that) and then add it to your account and see if it works. If it does then it proves that TiVo messed up when they added their Minis to the account.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Yeah, I'm certainly suspicious about the explanation given people buying these things at BB don't seem to have this delay. But I was overjoyed by the support guy admitting the problem was on their end instead of saying "sorry, you must have screwed up, can't help you" - and he was so nice about it I was willing to let it slide and see what happens.

That being said, it's still not working


----------



## Loach

todd_j_derr said:


> Yeah, I'm certainly suspicious about the explanation given people buying these things at BB don't seem to have this delay. But I was overjoyed by the support guy admitting the problem was on their end instead of saying "sorry, you must have screwed up, can't help you" - and he was so nice about it I was willing to let it slide and see what happens.
> 
> That being said, it's still not working


Yeah, I think they somehow royally hosed up your account. I set up my Mini today (ordered directly from Tivo) and it was easy as pie. Took about 1/2 hour and everything is working properly.


----------



## CoxInPHX

aaronwt said:


> I've never seen that page before. I just looked at it and what's weird is that it's showing a MoCA connection between both of my Elite boxes. But MoCA is also supposed to be turned off on both boxes.


I had never seen that before either,

Looking at my Elite from my Premiere, it also says it is connected via MoCA, I don't even have a MoCA network, I'm using wired Ethernet.


----------



## aaronwt

CoxInPHX said:


> I had never seen that before either,
> 
> Looking at my Elite from my Premiere, it also says it is connected via MoCA, I don't even have a MoCA network, I'm using wired Ethernet.


I checked mine again by pulling the Ethernet cable on my Elite and the Elite did not continue communicating with the Mini. So I have no idea why it shows it being connected over MoCA.


----------



## slowbiscuit

So aaron, does the Mini work with only a 2-tuner on the network or not?


----------



## sbiller

slowbiscuit said:


> So aaron, does the Mini work with only a 2-tuner on the network or not?


One of the few remaining questions I haven't seen answered...


----------



## Davisadm

CoxInPHX said:


> Looking at my Elite from my Premiere, it also says it is connected via MoCA, I don't even have a MoCA network, I'm using wired Ethernet.





aaronwt said:


> I checked mine again by pulling the Ethernet cable on my Elite and the Elite did not continue communicating with the Mini. So I have no idea why it shows it being connected over MoCA.


I looked at mine and it also say connected via MoCA. I don't have a Mini yet, don't have any external MoCA adapters, and am not using MoCA for ethernet. I think it is just wrong wording on TiVo's part. They probably meant MoCA capable.


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## overFEDEXed

sbiller said:


> One of the few remaining questions I haven't seen answered...


I have my Mini connected via MoCa and it works great. When I disconnect the Elite from the network, here are the messages, that I get. My Two-tuner Premiere is on ethernet, not MoCa. So no connection for the Mini, of course.

























When I plug the Mini up with the Ethernet, with the Host Elite still unplugged from earlier, it does access and play shows from my two-tuner Premiere.

I don't know for how long, this would work. I thought that I read somewhere, that if the mothership (Elite) didn't "Call in", the Mini might not function the same after that time period.

UPDATE;

I had the Mini "Call in". Now it WILL NOT let me play shows off of the Two-tuner Premiere. I will have to repeat this test later, but I swear it worked before I called back in.


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## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> So aaron, does the Mini work with only a 2-tuner on the network or not?


I never got around to checking since I had a bunch of recordings going on from both my Elites. I'll try just disconnecting the Ethernet connection from both my Elite and rebooting one of my Minis to see what happens. I had tried it before without booting the Mini and that had worked fine for ten minutes accessing my OTA Premiere, but I never rebooted the Mini.


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## aaronwt

OK. I had both my Elites disconnected from the network and I rebooted one of my TiVo Minis. When it came back up I was still able to access and play the recordings from my OTA only Premiere.

So that at least works but I have no idea how long it will last. It might last indefinitely or there might be a time limit that TiVo has imposed that kicks in when there is no communication with the host Elite/XL4. I just know that in the short term it works.


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## overFEDEXed

aaronwt said:


> I never got around to checking since I had a bunch of recordings going on from both my Elites. I'll try just disconnecting the Ethernet connection from both my Elite and rebooting one of my Minis to see what happens. I had tried it before without booting the Mini and that had worked fine for ten minutes accessing my OTA Premiere, but I never rebooted the Mini.


When I made the call in, after the Elite disconnect, is when my OTA Premiere, could not be accessed by the Mini.

Aaron, can you try "calling in" please.


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## sbiller

overFEDEXed said:


> I have my Mini connected via MoCa and it works great. When I disconnect the Elite from the network, here are the messages, that I get. My Two-tuner Premiere is on ethernet, not MoCa. So no connection for the Mini, of course.
> 
> View attachment 18486
> 
> 
> View attachment 18487
> 
> 
> View attachment 18488
> 
> 
> When I plug the Mini up with the Ethernet, with the Host Elite still unplugged from earlier, it does access and play shows from my two-tuner Premiere.
> 
> I don't know for how long, this would work. I thought that I read somewhere, that if the mothership (Elite) didn't "Call in", the Mini might not function the same after that time period.
> 
> UPDATE;
> 
> I had the Mini "Call in". Now it WILL NOT let me play shows off of the Two-tuner Premiere. I will have to repeat this test later, but I swear it worked before I called back in.


Interesting. Thanks for posting! Clearly this isn't an ideal situation with the nag screens, etc even IF it kept working over time.


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## aaronwt

overFEDEXed said:


> When I made the call in, after the Elite disconnect, is when my OTA Premiere, could not be accessed by the Mini.
> 
> Aaron, can you try "calling in" please.


Ok let me try it.

EDIT: Both my Elites were disconnected from the network and I had the mini make a connection to TiVo. After it was done I was still able to connect to my OTA only Premiere and watch the recordings. Let me try having that Premiere make a connection to TiVo and see what happens.


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## aaronwt

I had both my TiVo Minis make a connection to TiVo and I also had my OTA only Premiere make a connection. After the connections were finished my TiVo Minis were still able to watch the recordings from my OTA only Premiere even though both of my Elites were not connected to the network.


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## overFEDEXed

aaronwt said:


> I had both my TiVo Minis make a connection to TiVo and I also had my OTA only Premiere make a connection. After the connections were finished my TiVo Minis were still able to watch the recordings from my OTA only Premiere even though both of my Elites were not connected to the network.


Ok, I will try this again when I get home. I'm at Bestbuy, trying not to spend money.

UPDATE;

I tried this again. I CAN ACCESS the two-tuner Premiere, after disconnecting my Elite. Even after "Calling in" I still can. The only thing that I did different was, I used MoCa the first time. I'm trying it again now and will report back.

Also, I do get the nag EACH TIME I access the Premiere. It says that it can't find my Elite.

UPDATE 2;

I ran my test again, exactly as I did the first time. I CAN ACCESS my Premiere, after disconnecting my Elite. I do still get the nag, EACH TIME I access "My Shows". I must have messed up somewhere, the first time that I experimented.

Sorry


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## todd_j_derr

ok, 30+ hours since my first support call and ~48 hours after receiving my minis, they're still not working. i called support again before they closed and it sounds like my case has been escalated again but i think what jmpage2 said is correct and there is something seriously screwed up with my account that is preventing things from working. i've ordered all of my devices directly from tivo so there shouldn't have even been an opportunity for me to screw things up if i tried 

someone is supposed to get back to me tomorrow...


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## BigJimOutlaw

The Mini I ordered from bestbuy.com came in today. Even though I followed the setup instructions, setup was still a wonky experience.

First thing I did was activate it on tivo.com. Easy enough.

I didn't get around to setting it up until about an hour later (instructions say 15 mins). I set the Elite to share 1 tuner, and forced a connection so it could grab a ready activation.

Went downstairs into the kitchen and connected everything (using MoCA with FiOS) and began the guided setup. It connected to the MoCA network fine. When it came time to select the Host DVR, the Elite was red circled off. Error V70. harumph.

Went back upstairs to the Elite, forced another connection and also rebooted it for good measure.

Came back downstairs and realized if I wanted to proceed in Guided Setup and get the host DVR change to "kick in" I would have to start over. So I unplugged the Mini and restarted Guided Setup.

That worked. I selected the Elite and completed G.S.

Then there was a new problem. The Mini lists the shows but I couldn't stream anything or connect to Live TV. It claimed my ethernet wasn't plugged in. Error V94... Which is weird for 2 reasons. I was using MoCA, and there is no V94 on Tivo's website. So, that's useless. Tried rebooting the Elite again, didn't work.

Some folks here mentioned a software update. So I forced a connection on the Mini. Ah ha! A software update. It connected to the servers during GS; why didn't it download this update from the beginning? Downloaded and restarted.

Now everything works. That update may be vital and should have been automatically downloaded from the start.

Forcing reboots and connections shouldn't be necessary, but now that everything is running, I am pretty happy with it. UI is snappy. The channel changing is slightly faster than I thought it would be -- a pinch faster than shown in the video demo from a couple weeks ago. So that is a bonus. Not that I'll be channel surfing much.

So far so good.


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## UCLABB

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The Mini I ordered from bestbuy.com came in today. Even though I followed the setup instructions, setup was still a wonky experience.
> 
> First thing I did was activate it on tivo.com. Easy enough.
> 
> I didn't get around to setting it up until about an hour later (instructions say 15 mins). I set the Elite to share 1 tuner, and forced a connection so it could grab a ready activation.
> 
> Went downstairs into the kitchen and connected everything (using MoCA with FiOS) and began the guided setup. It connected to the MoCA network fine. When it came time to select the Host DVR, the Elite was red circled off. Error V70. harumph.
> 
> Went back upstairs to the Elite, forced another connection and also rebooted it for good measure.
> 
> Came back downstairs and realized if I wanted to proceed in Guided Setup and get the host DVR change to "kick in" I would have to start over. So I unplugged the Mini and restarted Guided Setup.
> 
> That worked. I selected the Elite and completed G.S.
> 
> Then there was a new problem. The Mini lists the shows but I couldn't stream anything or connect to Live TV. It claimed my ethernet wasn't plugged in. Error V94... Which is weird for 2 reasons. I was using MoCA, and there is no V94 on Tivo's website. So, that's useless. Tried rebooting the Elite again, didn't work.
> 
> Some folks here mentioned a software update. So I forced a connection on the Mini. Ah ha! A software update. It connected to the servers during GS; why didn't it download this update from the beginning? Downloaded and restarted.
> 
> Now everything works. That update may be vital and should have been automatically downloaded from the start.
> 
> Forcing reboots and connections shouldn't be necessary, but now that everything is running, I am pretty happy with it. UI is snappy. The channel changing is slightly faster than I thought it would be -- a pinch faster than shown in the video demo from a couple weeks ago. So that is a bonus. Not that I'll be channel surfing much.
> 
> So far so good.


When I went thru the gs, after it seemed it was done- after about 15 minutes of downloading, it said it had to download an update and repeated the whole process. Not sure why it didn't download the newest update initially.

The lag on channel changing is disappointing to me, but I don't channel surf much on the mini set up so its not much of an issue.


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## todd_j_derr

t+72 hours and still not working  I got an email today asking me to call support again, which I just did but no new revelations - I mostly just got asked to re-confirm everything I already did. The tech did take another look through my account and said he didn't see any problems.

I asked if he could deactivate and re-activate the minis and he said he couldn't do it since they were lifetime. He said he'd escalate it again, as a parting shot he suggested I could try re-running GS on one of the XL4s, although he had no real reason to believe that would help... but it's better than nothing.


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## todd_j_derr

I'm ready to give up. No idea what is wrong and the only update I've had in the past 2 days was "Have you told the TiVo that you are using a tuner for the mini yet?" Not only have I been asked that about 10 times already, but based on people's experience here it's not even required (I've done it anyways, on both XL4s).

I called tonight and asked to speak to a supervisor, which I did, no real progress there either. I asked him to deactivate one of the minis and let me reactivate it, but he wasn't willing to do that. I might go to BB and pick up another one, but it's a PITA to get out there plus the PITA of returning one of the minis.


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## jmpage2

Well, here's what I would do;

Tell TiVo that they have until Friday to get the product you paid for working or you will not only be returning it, you will not be paying return shipping. You will be posting unflattering reviews, etc. 

Insist on your problem being escalated to engineering. They are the ones who can fix it. 

If you send the units back, perhaps buy another at best buy afterwards and try it out. You also need to try running an Ethernet cable directly from the mini to your router. Make sure you can ping it on the network.


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## Dan203

Have you even got through the setup on the Mini?


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## todd_j_derr

I cannot complete GS. The initial call goes fine, I set the name, then it wants me to pick a Tivo to pair with. Both of my XL4s are there but greyed out, and selecting either one produces error V70. The only other option is "I don't see my TiVo" which produces another screen with a "try again" option that takes you back to the previous screen.

As far as the network setup, even though I knew it probably didn't matter (I spent ~11 years of my life writing software for switches and routers), one Mini and one XL4 are now connected directly to my router. They are definitely on the same subnet and can see each other (there is no way to see the IP of the mini in its current state but as I mentioned above I found a diag screen on the XL4 that shows some information about the mini). None of the devices have any problem contacting TiVo and I stream stuff between the XL4s all the time.

The fact they asked me *again* "did you dedicate a tuner" is the most discouraging part - it doesn't give me much hope anyone is making meaningful progress. And the CSRs (even the supervisor) won't even try anything outside their script. I suggested deactivating one of the minis and letting me reactivate it a few times, they won't do it.


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## todd_j_derr

A brief glimmer of hope today as they suggested disabling the IGMP Proxy on my router, which other FiOS customers have had some issues with. I was skeptical (believe it or not, I spent a few of my aforementioned networking years working on IGMP and PIM-SM) but gave it a shot... but no. I could see that causing a problem with the boxes discovering each other via Bonjour/Beacon but that doesn't seem to be the issue I'm having. And I've never had issues with Tivo->Tivo or Tivo Desktop, kmttg, etc.

Although, that did get me digging around in the router config, and i noticed there is "host-specific IGMP filtering" with all addresses except my one verizon STB marked with an "X". So, I set "allow" for both the tivo and mini's addresses, but to no avail. I'd have to guess the filtering is only for LAN->WAN but who knows, it's not really documented.

But, it did inspire me to mess around some more - I basically started screwing around with everything else I could think of. I changed the IP subnet on the router and made everything get new IP addresses, no. I turned off the firewall for a bit, no. I hooked the tivo and mini to another switch and connected that switch to the router (just to convince myself it wasn't filtering packets), no. I switched the Tivo from ethernet to moca and back again (yes, I have both), no (didn't try moca on the mini though). Tried renaming the tivo and the mini again. Reboots and forced calls all around, multiple times. Still hosed.

I'm debating whether I can get everything on the internet without using FiOS at all. I think I can use my laptop as a router/DHCP server and tether it to my phone for the "WAN" side. Not sure if it's worth the effort...

PS: yes, I'm convinced that trotting out my networking experience has more or less guaranteed this whole thing is ironically going to turn out to be my fault, and probably a really dumb n00b mistake at that. But I'm trying everything I can think of to make sure that's not the case


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## jmpage2

At this point you absolutely want to eliminate your FIOS service and router. Assuming TiVo does not send anything encrypted a good next move for you would be to hook up a Mini to a hub (not switch) and get a Wireshark trace. I am pretty good at looking at Wireshark TCP dumps (sounds like you can do that too) so perhaps there is a clue to be had by looking at what is going on when the Mini tries to connect to the Elite.


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## moyekj

todd_j_derr since you're messing around a lot anyway, maybe you should enable MoCA on your 4 tuner unit and then try and use MoCA on the Mini to see what happens. If that works and you get the Mini paired to the 4 tuner unit then you can go back and try ethernet again.


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## todd_j_derr

Yeah, I think I'll give that a shot... I didn't think I'd be able to determine anything useful by doing that, but I guess there's only one way to find out.


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## todd_j_derr

oops, my last response was about the packet sniffing... but, yeah, I might try putting both on MoCA. Like I said, I already switched the XL4 to moca and had the same result (my Verizon router is bridging my ethernet and moca networks - I have moca adapters in other rooms of my house). I could try disabling the LAN moca stuff entirely too. Verizon uses a separate moca channel for the WAN side and then there's a device that bridges that to the fiber connection, you can change that connection to ethernet and/or eliminate verizon's router entirely if you want... but all that is getting into more of a timesuck for grasping at straws.


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## jmpage2

todd_j_derr said:


> Yeah, I think I'll give that a shot... I didn't think I'd be able to determine anything useful by doing that, but I guess there's only one way to find out.


Depends on what protocols TiVo is using. If it's an open protocol and the traffic is not TLS encrypted you might be able to read what it's trying to do in plain text.


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## todd_j_derr

Well, of course i don't get to see the unicast so I can't see if they're actually talking to each other. I see a bunch of broadcast/multicast from all 3 boxes though:


All 3 of them broadcast Discovery beacons at 60s intervals (on x.x.x.255, udp port 2190)
There's some IGMPv3 traffic from the mini right after it boots (224.0.0.22), it joins and leaves 224.0.0.251 a few times.
A lot of mDNS traffic from all 3 boxes on 224.0.0.251 udp port 5353. I gather this is Bonjour. The intervals between queries seem to be longish (up to several minutes) and there's no obvious pattern.

Actually selecting anything from the menu on the mini does not appear to provoke any network traffic, even if I pick "I don't see my DVR" and "Try Again". If I use left arrow to go back and change the name I see a flurry of activity but it looks like it's just doing some queries for the new name followed by a bunch of responses announcing the new and old names.

Maybe I'll go see if I have an old hub or managed switch lying around so I can sniff the unicast as well.


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## todd_j_derr

FWIW, changing the name of the XL4 produces the same effect where it announces itself via beacon + bonjour with a flurry of traffic. If I pick something on the mini's menu and go back it sees the new name for the XL4 immediately.


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## jmpage2

You don't have a hub so that you can get a direct tap from the Mini?


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## todd_j_derr

No, or at least I can't find one. I've historically been a terrible packrat but I did a huge purge of old computer crap a couple years ago. The 2400 baud modems were probably a safe bet but maybe I should have held on to a hub... but I bet I can scare one up from a coworker.


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## moyekj

You don't really need a hub these days. Google ARP poisoning. You can spoof things so that all packets go through your computer after which when running Wireshark it sees all traffic when sniffing. Doesn't help much when TLS is being used though.


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## Dan203

If the Mini shows the proper name for the XL4 then this is NOT a local discovery issue. This is an account issue. The Mini sees the XL4 it just doesn't think it's a viable host.

I'm sure you've done this but just to be sure go to your account on tivo.com and verify that the Mini and the XL4 are both listed on your account AND that they are listed with the proper TSNs. If either is wrong then you might be able to fix it by clicking the "Change Service Number" link.

If they are both listed correctly then click the View media access key link. Now open a new browser window and enter...

https://<mini ip>/nowplaying/index.html

when prompted enter "tivo" as the user name and your MAK as the password. If it does not take then that means your Mini does not have the proper MAK assigned. If it does take then try the same exact thing but use the XL4s IP instead. Does that take?

If they both take then it means they have the same MAK and should be able to talk to one another. The only other thing it could possibly be is the on the TiVo account go to DVR Preferences and make sure the XL4 has the video sharing and video downloads options checked.

If you've done all that then something is hosed on the back end and your only hope is to find someone at TiVo that knows what the heck they're doing.

Edit: One more thing... You don't happen to have a bunch of TiVos on your account do you? TiVo has a hard limit of 10 devices per account and things can get really wonky when you exceed that limit. Even if you have old TiVos with lifetime that are still on your account.


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## todd_j_derr

Thanks Dan. I'm able to log into one of the minis (the other isn't hooked up right now) and the XL4s with the same key. I hadn't tried that before. FWIW, I'm 99% convinced it's TiVo's problem too but since I'm not getting any help from them I'm willing to try whatever I can do myself (although my patience is wearing thin, it's been a full week now).

My hope from last Friday was that they screwed up the TSN of the minis when they activated them but that looks correct. I've also verified the numbers on the cardboard box, on the mini, and actually being sent on the network all match. Sharing and downloads boxes are also checked (also verified multiple times) and the XL4s have always been able to stream from each other. Although, I might try un-checking and re-checking them... Too late for me to mess around with it anymore now but I'll try it tomorrow.

I have 6 devices on my account - one S1 (not sure why it's still there), 3 XL4s, and the 2 minis. One of the XL4s was a gift for my mom and I haven't got her set up with an account and transfered it yet - but it's not at my house. Shouldn't matter, but.... Anyways, well under 10.

Maybe I'll go buy a mini at BB tomorrow and see what happens. I dunno, I'm losing my desire to spend any more time on this than I already have.


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## jmckenna7

Todd, you are not alone. I have read your posts and am in the same boat as you. I ordered my Tivo Mini from Tivo's website as well and get the V70 error on the Tivo Mini.

I have tried many of the same things as you such as rebooting everything, changing the Tivo name, forcing a connection to Tivo's services, trying an all ethernet connection vs. Moca. I am confident that this is not a networking problem as I can ping each Tivo. I have even gone as far as doing a packet trace seeing that there is two-way communication between the Mini and Tivo's network.

I, too, have chatted with Tivo and called Tech support multiple times without any success. Just called this morning and was first instructed to force a connection to Tivo services, which like you is all of a sudden taking a long time to do. I reluctantly went along telling the agent I just did this and to check the notes of my previous interactions. After staying on the line for 20 minutes, the agent instructed me to call back when the download was complete. So frustrated at this point.


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## Digital Man

jmckenna7,

How many Tivos do you have on your account? I just noticed that the other two people having similar problems have a lot of Tivos on their account. I know it was mentioned that the limit was 10, but I'm wondering if Tivo has a bug with adding the Mini when there are a large number of Tivos either on the account or connected to your network.

DM


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## jmckenna7

I have just a TiVo Premiere XL4 and a Tivo Mini on the account. I had done much of the same troubleshooting that Todd has done before even coming to this forum. I was relieved it was not just me after reading all of his posts.

I did see that Tivo does not like to have more than 10 Tivo's active on one account though. Thanks.


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## jmckenna7

Just spoke on the phone again with Tivo. They agreed that I've exhausted my troubleshooting and that they would send me a new box. I asked if it was ok if I could go and pick one up at BestBuy instead and ship the one I have now back since I want to get this thing working sooner than later. They got approval to let me do that with free shipping since it was considered a hardware defect. Hope I have better luck activating the box myself.


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## Dan203

FYI I sent an email to a contact of mine at TiVo to see if they can shed any more light on what causes this. I'm hoping that maybe they can give me some instructions that you guys can relay to the support people so they can fix it for you. I'll let you know what, if anything, they tell me as soon as I hear back.


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## jmpage2

jmckenna7 said:


> Just spoke on the phone again with Tivo. They agreed that I've exhausted my troubleshooting and that they would send me a new box. I asked if it was ok if I could go and pick one up at BestBuy instead and ship the one I have now back since I want to get this thing working sooner than later. They got approval to let me do that with free shipping since it was considered a hardware defect. Hope I have better luck activating the box myself.


Very interested to see how that goes. If the Best Buy box works then it proves TiVo hosed something when adding the other Minis to your account.

If the BB box does not work then the problem is deeper. Either an esoteric network or account problem, or even some bizarre setting, etc, on your Elite box.


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## jmckenna7

Just got a box from Best Buy and everything is working great! Finally!!! So much wasted time that could have been avoided by not going through Tivo to begin with. I think I'll be picking up a second one now that I know that the activation can be easy.

I just activated the mini online, performed a network test after 15 minutes like the directions said, turned on the mini, and followed the guided setup. Didn't think this would work so quick because my Tivo account says that it is still processing my activation, but everything is working great!

Todd, ask for a refund now and just get your own boxes from Best Buy.


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## aaronwt

I show seventeen TiVos listed on my Account and my two Minis from Best Buy were added with no problem. The TiVos show up on my account page but the bulk of them were sold a while ago. So while they show up on my account page I don't actually have access to them.

Whatever the problem is it certainly sounds like a PITA. And TiVo caused that pain from their end.


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## jmpage2

> Just got a box from Best Buy and everything is working great! Finally!!! So much wasted time that could have been avoided by not going through Tivo to begin with. I think I'll be picking up a second one now that I know that the activation can be easy.
> 
> I just activated the mini online, performed a network test after 15 minutes like the directions said, turned on the mini, and followed the guided setup. Didn't think this would work so quick because my Tivo account says that it is still processing my activation, but everything is working great!
> 
> Todd, ask for a refund now and just get your own boxes from Best Buy.


Well hopefully Todd sees your post and buys from Best Buy, and assuming they work makes TiVo eat the return shipping as they've had more than ample opportunity to fix this. In fact if TiVo were to make it "right" they would actually credit him back more than the cost of the purchases considering the hours he's put in trying to get the boxes working.


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## aaronwt

They'll probably credit a free month if there are any boxes on monthly. Otherwise it's hard to get them to do anything. From my experience in the past, with a monthly box they have no issue crediting you a month or two or three. But when I didn't have that I couldn't get them to do much.


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## todd_j_derr

Argh, now i'm wishing i had gone to BB last weekend and saved myself a whole ton of time and aggravation. Glad you were able to fix your problem that way, and it's also good to hear it's not just me...


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## jmpage2

todd_j_derr said:


> Argh, now i'm wishing i had gone to BB last weekend and saved myself a whole ton of time and aggravation. Glad you were able to fix your problem that way, and it's also good to hear it's not just me...


If you do buy one locally and it works you should really give the TiVo "support" a piece of your mind.


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## moyekj

Maybe some Minis are shipping with different software that has trouble identifying host TiVos as 4 tuner units that have 20.2.2.x software. That's the only thing I can think of... I think it's a flaw you have to pair your Mini to a host before it can go through its 1st software update.


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## lessd

I solved the problem of the red circle my Mini saw with my new TP-4, I had two TP-2 units that I wanted combined into my new TP-4, so I copied the shows from the 2 TP-2 units and moved over the season passes, all seemed good but I left the cable cards in the two TP-2s during the time I was moving the programs. I was worried that my new TP-4 had a problem working with the Mini and I would have to do this all over again. I than moved one cable card from one of the TP-2 TiVos to my new TP-4, activated the card with Comcast (took 2 minutes), did a call home, than after that was finished rebooted the TP-4 and rebooted the Mini, guess what the Mini now could see all three TP-4s. The Mini will not work with a TP-4 without an activated cable card, simple as that. (at least for me) TiVo should tell its customers that (if as I found, it is true)


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## justen

moyekj said:


> Maybe some Minis are shipping with different software that has trouble identifying host TiVos as 4 tuner units that have 20.2.2.x software. That's the only thing I can think of... I think it's a flaw you have to pair your Mini to a host before it can go through its 1st software update.


Interesting. I wonder if it's (easily) possible for TiVo to move up the forced update to before pairing? If I remember correctly, mine required an update and a restart before I could even complete Guided Setup, but it was definitely after pairing.

I've always wondered how adaptable the TiVo OS truly is, given the difficulties and delays with the HD UI, Stream, dynamic tuner functionality, etc. Linux is obviously quite flexible, but the TiVo "apps" built on top of it are fifteen years old now, no? I'm sure most of that (or, actually, all of that) has been modified over the years, but that likely makes things more difficult, especially depending on how well things were documented over the years.

All of that to say, I would love to be a fly on the wall during some of TiVo's product engineering meetings! But I'd almost bet there was just something funky with the way that Mini was provisioned in TiVos systems?


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## jmckenna7

Just bought a second Mini at Best Buy. Activated just fine again. Man, a bad mini really messes up your week. I only suffered for 3 days though. Poor Todd had an even worse experience with the support.

What compounded my frustration is that I got FiOS installed last week and went through same support nightmare with Verizon getting a cablecard to work. The FiOS tech went through 4 cablecards over the course of 3 days and left me with no tv. It wasn't until I took matters into my own hands and got a self-install cablecard from a Verizon store and things worked right away. Funny how my Tivo Mini experience mirrored cablecard experience. I'm just glad I can relax now.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Well, from the "I just can't win" dept., I went to Best Buy without checking stock online first... apparently of the 6 BB's within ~10mi of me, only one of them carries the mini, and it wasn't the one I picked. Oh well, I went there in the first place because I wanted to go to a restaurant nearby for dinner, so it wasn't a complete loss.

I can't get too upset at TiVo about all the time I've wasted since I brought the bulk of that upon myself. Although, it is ridiculous that they haven't been able to determine what the problem is. I'm going to call tomorrow and ask them (again) to deactivate at least one of the minis and let me reactivate it. I debating whether to abuse the "change service number" facility Dan mentioned in an attempt to shake something loose, but I'd need a TSN to temporarily transfer my service to, and it just doesn't seem worth the risk.

BTW, as I said somewhere in the novel I've written on this thread, I can see the mini's information on the XL4 under settings->help->multiple tivos->streaming->multi-room advanced help. The S/W version is 20.2.2-01-6-A92. It does seem like a mistake that it apparently only downloads the update after you get through GS though. Still, my money is on the problem being with my account rather than with the mini software.


----------



## justen

todd_j_derr said:


> BTW, as I said somewhere in the novel I've written on this thread, I can see the mini's information on the XL4 under settings->help->multiple tivos->streaming->multi-room advanced help. The S/W version is 20.2.2-01-6-A92. It does seem like a mistake that it apparently only downloads the update after you get through GS though. Still, my money is on the problem being with my account rather than with the mini software.


My Mini has 20.2.2.1-01-6-A92. As I said earlier, it was purchased from Best Buy, and had to run a software update after pairing but before Guided Setup could complete.


----------



## lessd

todd_j_derr said:


> Well, from the "I just can't win" dept., I went to Best Buy without checking stock online first... apparently of the 6 BB's within ~10mi of me, only one of them carries the mini, and it wasn't the one I picked. Oh well, I went there in the first place because I wanted to go to a restaurant nearby for dinner, so it wasn't a complete loss.
> 
> I can't get too upset at TiVo about all the time I've wasted since I brought the bulk of that upon myself. Although, it is ridiculous that they haven't been able to determine what the problem is. I'm going to call tomorrow and ask them (again) to deactivate at least one of the minis and let me reactivate it. I debating whether to abuse the "change service number" facility Dan mentioned in an attempt to shake something loose, but I'd need a TSN to temporarily transfer my service to, and it just doesn't seem worth the risk.
> 
> BTW, as I said somewhere in the novel I've written on this thread, I can see the mini's information on the XL4 under settings->help->multiple tivos->streaming->multi-room advanced help. The S/W version is 20.2.2-01-6-A92. It does seem like a mistake that it apparently only downloads the update after you get through GS though. Still, my money is on the problem being with my account rather than with the mini software.


Change of service number (on the TiVo web sight) will not ever work for the Series 4, even within the first 30 days.


----------



## todd_j_derr

so, i successfully talked them into deactivating one of my minis and re-activating it. I booted it up, went through GS, and... same problem. 

I hung up and was ready to head to BB, but before i did that I pressed left arrow a couple times to get back to the screen where it calls in. I've done this before, and it doesn't actually appear to call again, it just lets you do select to continue, you can't even go left anymore. However, this time I got "Tivo Service Required" with instructions on how to activate.

Excitement! Having seen the same thing for the past 9 days I'm willing to consider any change in behavior a good change. Maybe this is the propagation delay in action - I'm hoping the initial "cancel" took a few minutes to propagate so it didn't see it on the initial call, and maybe in a few more minutes it will be re-activated... at least that's my hope. On tivo.com it says "We're still processing your activation", although I know people have said their minis have been active even when the web site says that.

I'm rebooting again, I know everyone is on the edge of their seat


----------



## todd_j_derr

Well, at least the "propagation delay" part of my theory was correct - after a few more calls it realized it was activated... I held my breath as I picked the name, but alas, it's back in the same old state. Time to go to BB, I guess.

I do see my case is now "escalated to L3" vs L2. which is nice, but I wish it would have happened more quickly.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I am simply not meant to have a working Mini.

To prevent a repeat of last night's fiasco, I go to bestbuy.com, add a couple minis to my cart, select pick-up at the store where it's in stock, go through checkout and:

"We're sorry, these items are no longer available for immediate store pickup at the location you've selected: Tivo - Mini"

Hahahaha - I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. I can page through 3 pages of stores (looks like 100+ mi by the end) and none of them show it in stock.


----------



## lessd

todd_j_derr said:


> I am simply not meant to have a working Mini.
> 
> To prevent a repeat of last night's fiasco, I go to bestbuy.com, add a couple minis to my cart, select pick-up at the store where it's in stock, go through checkout and:
> 
> "We're sorry, these items are no longer available for immediate store pickup at the location you've selected: Tivo - Mini"
> 
> Hahahaha - I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. I can page through 3 pages of stores (looks like 100+ mi by the end) and none of them show it in stock.


I had this problem (with using the Best Buy web sight) and called the store that the web sight said was in stock and they put one aside for me (a week ago) no problem. I was in my West Hartford Best Buy today (for a non TiVo reason) and they had the Mini in stock in the theater section of the store.


----------



## jmpage2

Yeah Todd you should just call them, give them the SKU # and they can tell you if they actually have them on the shelf v


----------



## sbiller

Picked up a Mini at the Clearwater, FL Best Buy store around 6p this evening for my mom's 3rd bedroom which currently has a Bright House Networks cable box. It was the last Mini in the store and it took the CSR about 5 minutes to locate it in the stockroom. 

The Mini setup was extremely pain free. I activated it online with product lifetime service. I updated the settings to allow 2-tuners. She's not a heavy DVR user and having 2-tuners available on her XL4 is sufficient. She already has a Mini in her Master Bedroom. 

I was surprised to see the XL4 phoning home automatically after I activated the Mini. I think this might be an automatic step TiVo put in place to improve the activation process. 

I waited the 15 minutes and connected the Mini to the 3rd bedrooms Coax. I already had setup the house for MoCA with the help of Bright House Networks when I installed the first Mini. The Mini also automatically started connected to TiVo when it detected the MoCA network. I don't recall if that was in place when I set-up the first Mini. It easily completed the process and I had live TV on the Mini in less than 30 minutes. Very pain-free compared to the hassle of pairing a CableCARD, tuning adapters, etc.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I did call the store and was told they didn't have any - I didn't ask if they sold out or if they never had any to begin with. When I asked the guy at the store I went to last night he looked up the SKU and it said it wasn't being carried at that store. They did have a whole TiVo display with premieres, slide remotes and wireless adapters so I was a bit surprised they wouldn't carry the mini. I'm going to call TiVo tomorrow and ask them to overnight me replacements.


----------



## jmpage2

Good plan Todd. Good luck.


----------



## jmckenna7

Just had to call Tivo again because I never got a shipping label emailed to me. I told customer service that the Tivo I am shipping back is definitely defective as I have successfully activated two Mini's after giving up on the defective one. The agent didn't seem to understand why I wanted him to make a note of that. He figured since it was already an RMA it was defective, and he did not see the need to confirm anything. He eventually said he was going to make a note of it, but I think it was to appease me. Oh well. I was just trying to help their troubleshooting process for future calls.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I got Tivo to overnight me a new Mini (edit: which will be here tomorrow (Tues)).

I have a slightly bad feeling about this since the new mini is showing on tivo.com as being activated on 3/12 like the original one... that makes me afraid they did some kind of transfer instead of a new activation and whatever problem existed may persist. hopefully i'm just being paranoid.


----------



## Digital Man

todd_j_derr said:


> hopefully i'm just being paranoid.


I think you have earned the right to be paranoid! 

DM


----------



## todd_j_derr

I wish I could tell you that paranoia was misplaced, but I now have three non-functioning minis.


----------



## Dan203

That sucks. My contact at TiVo said they alerted someone higher up in the support team to this thread and that they were going to contact you guys directly. Have you got any emails or private messages from anyone at TiVo?


----------



## todd_j_derr

I have not, but I definitely appreciate that - thanks! I'm sure they'd like to get to the bottom of this before it happens to more people.

One BB near me shows it in stock now but by the time I got home and tried this one the wife had dinner almost ready so I couldn't make it out there. Maybe tomorrow...

Although, I'm sitting here debating whether it's worth risking $150 to try to activate the RMA'd box myself now that its sub has definitely been cancelled. Even when they "deactivated" it, it just moved to a different section of my account on tivo.com and then it moved back with the original activation date intact, just like when they swapped the boxes. So, some state associated with that subscription has been preserved, and maybe that includes whatever bad state is preventing it from working. Activating the old box might give me a clean slate... or maybe there's still some state associated with that S/N and I'll just be out the cash and have to try to get that back too.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Mini wasteland!


----------



## Arcady

Get three more and you can build a cube of Minis.


----------



## todd_j_derr

with the angles on the edges it appears you could also assemble them into a hexagon.

BTW, i made the RMA'd mini dial in and I did not get the "Tivo Service Required" message, which I found kind of odd. Although if I try to activate it on tivo.com I don't get the "this device has already been activated" message. If not for the first thing I'd probably have done that $150 click already but that gives me pause.

I also got another message from support saying the engineers are looking into it, but they're busy and all so it will probably be 5-7 days. urge to click rising...


----------



## aaronwt

This is still going on!? It must really be a PITA.


----------



## jmpage2

Yes, in this case the thread title is quite apropos.


----------



## lessd

todd_j_derr said:


> with the angles on the edges it appears you could also assemble them into a hexagon.
> 
> BTW, i made the RMA'd mini dial in and I did not get the "Tivo Service Required" message, which I found kind of odd. Although if I try to activate it on tivo.com I don't get the "this device has already been activated" message. If not for the first thing I'd probably have done that $150 click already but that gives me pause.
> 
> I also got another message from support saying the engineers are looking into it, but they're busy and all so it will probably be 5-7 days. urge to click rising...


Please don't think this is a dumb question, but do you have activated cable cards in your TP-4 units, I found out the hard way that that was necessary for the Mini to mate to any TP four tuner TiVo.


----------



## todd_j_derr

No question is a dumb question at this point in the saga... but yes, they both have active CCs and have been operational since Oct & Dec 2011.


----------



## todd_j_derr

After a trip to Best Buy my Mini collection has grown to 4. Unfortunately the newest one has fared no better than its brethren.

I was 95% sure that was going to work too.


----------



## Arcady

Just two more, then you can complete the cube and the Borg will start to assimilate your home...


----------



## todd_j_derr

ok, here's one last stab in the dark that my exchange with lessd about activated cable cards indirectly led me to - maybe someone can help me with this.

When I run setup on the Mini, when it gets to the "TiVo DVR Connection" screen it says:

Choose which TiVo DVR you want this TiVo box to connect to for recording shows and watching live TV or _XFINITY On Demand._

It's that last part that got me thinking. Is that text hardcoded or does it change based on whether you're a Comcast subscriber or not? Is anyone who is not a Comcast subscriber able to tell me?

I am not a Comcast subscriber, but I was when I bought my first XL4 (as well as when I bought my first Series 1 in 2000 - I still have the same account), and I subsequently changed to FIOS. I did have an exchange with at least one CSR about Comcast/XFINITY, I'm not sure if he thought I was a Comcast subscriber or if there was just something in his script. I do remember specifically making a point of the fact I was no longer a Comcast subscriber and asking if that could create a problem, he said no and I didn't pursue it further. But, I wonder if there's some "Comcast" bit set on my account and the Mini sees the XL4s do not have an active Comcast cable card and refuses to pair. Doesn't sound like the most likely scenario to me, but I'm otherwise out of ideas.

[Edit: this may also be complicated by the fact that I have an "extra" XL4 on my account that I gave to my mom... and she is a Comcast subscriber. I keep forgetting to get her to create an account so I can transfer it to her. And, FWIW I've also mentioned the "extra" XL4 not in my house to most of the CSRs I've spoken with.]


----------



## jmpage2

Unfortunately I am a Comcast customer so I can't verify for you. You might be on to something though... if there's a flag or bit in the XL4 that thinks it has activated with a Comcast CableCard.

Unfortunately the only way to "prove" the thing out would be to reset ALL settings on the XL4 and then re-pair your cable card on it. That should wipe out all trace of Comcast because AFAIK there is nothing on your account itself that would ever inform the Minis about comcast.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I have some evidence it's not state on the device because my second XL4 was never on Comcast (I just double checked the dates)... The only reason I thought it might be significant and possibly tracked on their servers was because of the On Demand support, but it's just pure speculation.

My XL4 does not have any "On Demand" functionality (from reading the docs I surmise I would see this under "My Shows" and/or "Find TV..."?), so that's some evidence against it.

In any case, I emailed my mom and asked her to create an account sohopefully I can at least remove that variable (probably should have done it earlier but multiple CSRs were adamant there was absolutely no issue with it). I may also create a new account for myself and transfer a couple devices over there just for fun. Or I could stop spending all this time on it and just give up and wait... but what fun would that be?


----------



## lessd

jmpage2 said:


> Unfortunately I am a Comcast customer so I can't verify for you. You might be on to something though... if there's a flag or bit in the XL4 that thinks it has activated with a Comcast CableCard.
> 
> Unfortunately the only way to "prove" the thing out would be to reset ALL settings on the XL4 and then re-pair your cable card on it. That should wipe out all trace of Comcast because AFAIK there is nothing on your account itself that would ever inform the Minis about comcast.


When you changed to your new cable co did you do a new setup, I guess the other thing you could try is move all the shows off one of the Q4 TiVo and do a full C&D all, re-pair the cable cards, do the same for the Mini and that should work, another option is to create a new TiVo account for yourself and have TiVo move all your active TiVos into that new account, your MAC will change, that can be a problem if you moved stuff to your computer. One of those options should work for your problem.


----------



## Loach

todd_j_derr said:


> ok, here's one last stab in the dark that my exchange with lessd about activated cable cards indirectly led me to - maybe someone can help me with this.
> 
> When I run setup on the Mini, when it gets to the "TiVo DVR Connection" screen it says:
> 
> Choose which TiVo DVR you want this TiVo box to connect to for recording shows and watching live TV or _XFINITY On Demand._
> 
> It's that last part that got me thinking. Is that text hardcoded or does it change based on whether you're a Comcast subscriber or not? Is anyone who is not a Comcast subscriber able to tell me?
> 
> I am not a Comcast subscriber, but I was when I bought my first XL4 (as well as when I bought my first Series 1 in 2000 - I still have the same account), and I subsequently changed to FIOS. I did have an exchange with at least one CSR about Comcast/XFINITY, I'm not sure if he thought I was a Comcast subscriber or if there was just something in his script. I do remember specifically making a point of the fact I was no longer a Comcast subscriber and asking if that could create a problem, he said no and I didn't pursue it further. But, I wonder if there's some "Comcast" bit set on my account and the Mini sees the XL4s do not have an active Comcast cable card and refuses to pair. Doesn't sound like the most likely scenario to me, but I'm otherwise out of ideas.
> 
> [Edit: this may also be complicated by the fact that I have an "extra" XL4 on my account that I gave to my mom... and she is a Comcast subscriber. I keep forgetting to get her to create an account so I can transfer it to her. And, FWIW I've also mentioned the "extra" XL4 not in my house to most of the CSRs I've spoken with.]


I am not a Comcast subscriber and I don't remember Xfinity ever being mentioned when I set up my 2 Minis. But honestly I'm not sure I would have paid that much attention.


----------



## jmpage2

lessd said:


> When you changed to your new cable co did you do a new setup, I guess the other thing you could try is move all the shows off one of the Q4 TiVo and do a full C&D all, re-pair the cable cards, do the same for the Mini and that should work, another option is to create a new TiVo account for yourself and have TiVo move all your active TiVos into that new account, your MAC will change, that can be a problem if you moved stuff to your computer. One of those options should work for your problem.


Les, you responded and quoted my post, but I was in fact responding to Todd.


----------



## HarperVision

I'm on Oceanic TWC and never saw anything mentioning XFinity On Demand when I setup my 2 minis.


----------



## jmckenna7

I had the all the same issues as Todd until I bought a Tivo Mini from Best Buy and activated it myself. The Mini I was having issues with was bought from Tivo's website and was returned as an RMA after making multiple calls to Tivo's technical support. However, Todd did not have the same luck as me when purchasing a new Mini from Best Buy.

I would just like to point out some additional information from my setup in case it helps. I also had my XL4 on Comcast and switched to FiOS recently. The day after I finally got my cablecard working on FiOS I attempted to activate my first Mini. I only have one XL4 and two Mini's on my account now. The two Mini's were activated smoothly in under 20 minutes after having a horrible time with my first Mini that was returned.


----------



## todd_j_derr

I got an email from Tivo asking me to call and when I did the tech said there was no update to report and he wasn't sure why they asked me to call... ;(

Since I was on the phone anyways I did mention the Comcast angle to him and he didn't think it would be an issue, but HarperVision's report is certainly curious... although like Loach said it's probably easy to miss - the average user probably sees that screen for half a second if at all (not sure if it would even need to appear if you had one TP4 and it was working properly).

At this point I don't think there's much I can do but sit back and wait - or at least I've lost the desire to try anything else for now, including messing around with new accounts, especially since there's a chance I could end up hosing my XL4s in the process.

I've rebooted the Minis a couple more times just to make sure, but no luck.

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help... how I long for the days when I could at least get a shell on my tivo and poke around a bit.


----------



## HarperVision

todd_j_derr said:


> Since I was on the phone anyways I did mention the Comcast angle to him and he didn't think it would be an issue, but HarperVision's report is certainly curious... although like Loach said it's probably easy to miss - the average user probably sees that screen for half a second if at all (not sure if it would even need to appear if you had one TP4 and it was working properly).


Yes to be clear I could've easily missed it as I wasn't looking for it and my setup was smooth as butter sliding across a hot griddle ready for a flapjack!!! Wow, I just made myself hungry


----------



## todd_j_derr

I haven't updated this thread since I haven't heard a word from TiVo since Thursday 3/28. I've booted the mini a few times but no change. My mom's TiVo is no longer on my account so that wasn't the issue either. My 30 day trial period is ending so I'm probably going to send them all back before I end up with $1000 worth of paperweights. Not sure what I'll do after that...


----------



## jmpage2

That's really crappy tech support on TiVos part.


----------



## Davisadm

todd_j_derr said:


> I haven't updated this thread since I haven't heard a word from TiVo since Thursday 3/28. I've booted the mini a few times but no change. My mom's TiVo is no longer on my account so that wasn't the issue either. My 30 day trial period is ending so I'm probably going to send them all back before I end up with $1000 worth of paperweights. Not sure what I'll do after that...


todd_j_derr -
Did you ever get the problems solved?


----------



## todd_j_derr

I did not. I sent 2 of them back and they extended the 30 day trial on the other 2. I got an email on Saturday "We have prioritized your case XXXX to hopefully receive a resolution faster." Hopefully indeed! Nothing since then.

I was at my mom's house over the weekend; I meant to take a mini up there to see what would happen (although they're no longer on the same account, sort-of), but I forgot..


----------



## todd_j_derr

Hallelujah! Yesterday I got an email "We believe that we may resolved the issue you were having. Please attempt to setup the TiVo Mini again". Lo and behold, I got to the red-slash screen of death and there were no red slashes to be seen! I nearly wept.

So, no idea what the issue was but clearly it was on Tivo's end. Total time to resolve: 35 days.

[Edit: both minis are now set up and working fine... finally!]


----------



## jmpage2

Holy horrible tech support batman. 30+ days is inexcusable for any product let alone a new one that needs favorable reviews.


----------



## steve614

Yeah, that's crazy. Solidifies my belief that TiVo's beta tests are really alpha tests, and the early adopters are the real beta test.


----------



## moyekj

todd_j_derr said:


> Hallelujah! Yesterday I got an email "We believe that we may resolved the issue you were having. Please attempt to setup the TiVo Mini again". Lo and behold, I got to the red-slash screen of death and there were no red slashes to be seen! I nearly wept.
> 
> So, no idea what the issue was but clearly it was on Tivo's end. Total time to resolve: 35 days.
> 
> [Edit: both minis are now set up and working fine... finally!]


 By any chance did you get service transferred from an older TiVo model to your 4 tuner unit? I transferred a 3 year pre-pay to a Premiere and the back end was configured all wrong on that Premiere (it was configured as a series 3 unit). If I had to guess your problem was similar. It's crazy how little we know about the back end configuration of our units. There should be a summary of the configuration at tivo.com IMO so we have a chance to verify it ourselves.


----------



## todd_j_derr

moyekj - I did not but my own suspicions are along those lines. My TiVo account has existed since June 2000 so who knows what kind of crud has accumulated there, how many backend upgrades it's been subjected to, etc. Maybe some field was set to something unexpected that the CSR tools ignored but the Mini puked on. I've certainly been in the situation before of having to diagnose a customer problem that "can't possibly be happening" and I know it's frustrating, but 35 days...

Anyways, I had a S1 lifetime which *still* shows up under &#8221;Active TiVo devices" despite the fact I sold it on eBay and transferred the sub - I certainly didn't get any discounts on my first Elite. My mom's TiVo still shows up there as well, though it's now gone from "device preferences". So, plenty of extra stuff floating around, and that's just what I can see myself. I know one or two of the CSRs were kind of "thinking out loud" talking about various permissions and other configuration we have no way of seeing.


----------



## NotNowChief

I have been keeping an eye on this thread to see the outcome.

I can't believe it actually took 35 days to resolve this. Wow.


----------



## aaronwt

NotNowChief said:


> I have been keeping an eye on this thread to see the outcome.
> 
> I can't believe it actually took 35 days to resolve this. Wow.


Your avatar pic fits perfectly with that statement.


----------



## todd_j_derr

BTW, when I asked what the issue was the answer I got was "we didn't do anything"... I wrote back basically saying I didn't believe that; no response, they closed the case. So, who knows, maybe something with transferring boxes or processing RMAs somehow fixed my account, maybe whoever really fixed it couldn't be arsed to add any notes to the case, maybe it was a benevolent alpha particle.

I don't really care - my Minis are working and now I can get on with "normal" Mini owner problems like wanting to configure the timeout or be able to use Netflix. All my refunds are processed, I sold my Moxis (for 80% of what I paid new 3 years ago, FWIW), and I'm generally happy.


----------



## NotNowChief

aaronwt said:


> Your avatar pic fits perfectly with that statement.


It should be TiVo's new corporate logo.


----------



## todd_j_derr

BTW, someone from TiVo contacted me privately with an explanation, which I thought was very cool. It turns out it was indeed related to the Xfinity On Demand stuff I speculated about here.. So, it's certainly nice to get a little closure on that, and if anyone else runs into the same issue hopefully they'll see this and be able to get the problem resolved.


----------



## sbiller

todd_j_derr said:


> BTW, someone from TiVo contacted me privately with an explanation, which I thought was very cool. It turns out it was indeed related to the Xfinity On Demand stuff I speculated about here.. So, it's certainly nice to get a little closure on that, and if anyone else runs into the same issue hopefully they'll see this and be able to get the problem resolved.


Thanks for the update! Seems to clarify that the issue was a backend accounting snafu which is good from the perspective that they were able to isolate and figure out the problem.


----------



## mike123abc

I ordered a TiVo XL4 and a mini. The mini would not connect. They blamed the ethernet so I connected via MoCA and it still failed. I read through this thread so was dreading the struggle. I was getting the V70 screen.

I went on the XL4 and under the help menus it could see the mini. I did the login trick with the MAK with both the mini and the XL4 and they had the same MAK key and both were obviously talking on the network.

After a week and a call everyday to TiVo they finally agreed to send me a new mini to try out. It worked first try.


----------



## aardwolf

I was having the same troubles (v70) last night. I went to TiVo's website and registered the TiVo Mini, since it wasn't showing up on my account. I also enabled 1 tuner from my TiVo Premiere 4 to be shared for the Mini.

I had to go somewhere, so I came back to it two hours later. It still wasn't working when I checked it out. I rebooted a couple of times... still no luck.

I took it upstairs to the same room as my other TiVo, and made sure it was plugged into the same hub. This time, it found it on the first attempt. Once I get the breakout cable delivered today for composite support, I can put it in the guest bedroom (it's final destination.) Hopefully it won't have any trouble connecting, now that I've made the initial connection.


----------



## aardwolf

For the record, everything network related worked once I plugged it into the old TV in the guest bedroom (with the help of the breakout cables.)

It refuses to output stuff in 4:3, but I've got a ticket in with TiVo for that. They've acknowledged that it's a known issue, and they're "working on it".


----------



## motech

I think I'm in the same boat w shared account and xfinity issue. 
Any advice? I keep getting the red do not enters.


----------



## jmpage2

motech said:


> I think I'm in the same boat w shared account and xfinity issue.
> Any advice? I keep getting the red do not enters.


what do you mean shared account and xfinity?


----------



## tlwizard

I just set up my mini and was getting the same V70 error. I followed all the instructions (activating, setting up the tuner sharing, etc.) and it just would not work. Multiple reboots, etc. Found this thread, changed the name of my XL4, reconnected to Tivo, and the Mini picked it right up. Very strange. Would never have tried it without this thread. All in all, about an hour of work.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Sorry I didn't want to read every page on here but I have been a Tivo fan every since the 1st single tuner SD Tivo. I now have 2 and my boyfriend has 1 on my account Series 3 HD Tivo's. Were moving to a condo and our cable company got bought out by Time Warner and I've been having phone and internet problems lately. We thought about going to Dish with the Hopper and Joey but it's a 2 year agreement. 

I called Tivo and said do you have anything new? I had no idea about this mocha and Tivo Minis.. I know the Premiere has 4 tuners and a bigger HD than we what we have. So you can record 4 shows or 3 and watch one right? And if you watching a recorded show on one of the mini's can you still record 4 shows or 3? Is watching a recorded show on a mini which we would have 2 if we got the premiere does that mean if were both watching a show in another room on the mini it's using 2 tuners and we could only record 2 shows while watching minis? I read the beginning of this thread and was a little confused about that. And Tivo mentioned I would need a mocha for the Premiere and that the mini's have mocha built in but right now you get a free 50 dollar mocha when you buy a premiere. and then he mentioned that POE not sure what that is or does. He told me I forget. 

So the minis basically you can go to any room and watch a recording or if you pause a recording in one room finish it in another right? To me it sounds like this Hopper and Joey setup from Dish who charges 12.99 fee on the main Hopper which is a 2 TB box and then 6.99 fees on each Joey.. Only difference is were stuck with a 2 year contract and with weather were not sure how often we will lose our signal but they give you the devices. With Tivo we would have to buy the premiere and the minis but I can sell my 3 Tivo's now to cover most of that. One of my Tivo's has a lifetime on it...

So everyone likes the Premiere and the mini setup? I am moving in 3 weeks and am just trying to decide which route to go. I haven't been here in a while but thought I would come here and read up on this mini. The streaming box seems cool too..


----------



## Bigg

I don't know what everyone's complaining about... my TiVo/Mini/MoCA setup has been almost flawless. The only time it fell apart was when I added a splitter downstairs in front of the Premiere, but a quick reboot of the Mini, and it was connected again with no issues. My MoCA goes through 3 splitters (up and back down 2-3-4 ways relative to the line coming in from the Comcast tap), and it seems rock solid.


----------



## idovermani

Figure I'll throw my 2 cents in here since I had trouble with a Tivo Mini recognizing a Roamio Plus over Ethernet. My setup includes a FiOS router running through a Netgear Gigabit switch. Using this setup, the Mini was able to connect to the Internet but returned a V70 error as soon as it reached the step where it tried connecting to the host DVR (right after naming the box). 

After a couple of calls in to Tivo, their suggestion was that both the Mini and the Roamio should be connected directly to the router (rather than a switch) which just isn't practical due to the distance. Instead of even attempting that I opted to connect the Roamio using Moca rather than Ethernet and the Mini located it immediately. 

While I can't discount that connecting both directly to the router may have worked (I never tried it) I would doubt that is realistic for many users, especially in larger houses rather than apartments. 

If you're having trouble connecting a Mini to a host (Roamio or an older model) and MoCa is an option for you, I highly recommend giving it a go.


----------



## TC25D

My Mini and Roamio Basic are connected to the same switch. Recognized each other right away.


----------



## jmpage2

idovermani said:


> Figure I'll throw my 2 cents in here since I had trouble with a Tivo Mini recognizing a Roamio Plus over Ethernet. My setup includes a FiOS router running through a Netgear Gigabit switch. Using this setup, the Mini was able to connect to the Internet but returned a V70 error as soon as it reached the step where it tried connecting to the host DVR (right after naming the box).
> 
> After a couple of calls in to Tivo, their suggestion was that both the Mini and the Roamio should be connected directly to the router (rather than a switch) which just isn't practical due to the distance. Instead of even attempting that I opted to connect the Roamio using Moca rather than Ethernet and the Mini located it immediately.
> 
> While I can't discount that connecting both directly to the router may have worked (I never tried it) I would doubt that is realistic for many users, especially in larger houses rather than apartments.
> 
> If you're having trouble connecting a Mini to a host (Roamio or an older model) and MoCa is an option for you, I highly recommend giving it a go.


It should have worked the way you had it set up. The most likely reason for a V70 error were the Mini can see the host TiVo but cannot connect to it, is that from the Mini point of view that TiVo is not authorized. Normally this can be fixed by forced connections from all devices and in some cases you can speed up a resolution by renaming the host TiVo, forcing a new connection, re-connecting from the Mini and then rebooting all the devices.


----------



## idovermani

jmpage2 said:


> It should have worked the way you had it set up. The most likely reason for a V70 error were the Mini can see the host TiVo but cannot connect to it, is that from the Mini point of view that TiVo is not authorized. Normally this can be fixed by forced connections from all devices and in some cases you can speed up a resolution by renaming the host TiVo, forcing a new connection, re-connecting from the Mini and then rebooting all the devices.


I did every step you mentioned under the previous setup other than renaming the host Tivo. I may try reverting to Ethernet and trying the rename/reboot process since I'm experiencing a split-second pausin every 15-20 minutes on the Mini that I'm attributing to the speed of MoCa.


----------



## wmhjr

idovermani said:


> I did every step you mentioned under the previous setup other than renaming the host Tivo. I may try reverting to Ethernet and trying the rename/reboot process since I'm experiencing a split-second pausin every 15-20 minutes on the Mini that I'm attributing to the speed of MoCa.


While it is not consistent, I've experienced this as well with my minis - which are connected to two different XL4s via Ethernet.

Some days I get that exact behavior. Every 20 minutes or so (varies somewhat) the mini "pauses". Other days, this simply does not happen.


----------



## jmpage2

idovermani said:


> I did every step you mentioned under the previous setup other than renaming the host Tivo. I may try reverting to Ethernet and trying the rename/reboot process since I'm experiencing a split-second pausin every 15-20 minutes on the Mini that I'm attributing to the speed of MoCa.


MoCA should give the same performance as ethernet. It definitely sounds like something is wrong though with something in your environment.


----------



## idovermani

jmpage2 said:


> MoCA should give the same performance as ethernet. It definitely sounds like something is wrong though with something in your environment.


I'm going to monitor it through the weekend so I can pinpoint the exact behavior and hopefully have a little more to go on. I'm hesitant to change the setup until I really know what is going on.


----------



## Rose4uKY

We're using MoCa and our two minis quit working. We have one in each bedroom. Worked with our new Premiere which we returned after three weeks for the Roamio Plus. We get some network error.


----------



## jmpage2

Rose4uKY said:


> We're using MoCa and our two minis quit working. We have one in each bedroom. Worked with our new Premiere which we returned after three weeks for the Roamio Plus. We get some network error.


Well try being more specific. You can see plenty of info that when migrating from XL4 to mini there are things you need to do. I even created an entire "how to" thread about this.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Sorry I was out of town and using my phone and it was hard searching but he figured it out and it's working now... I don't think the Roamio was seeing the MoCa's..



jmpage2 said:


> Well try being more specific. You can see plenty of info that when migrating from XL4 to mini there are things you need to do. I even created an entire "how to" thread about this.


----------



## jhacker

Hi, I'm having the same issue. Installed brand new Roamio last week, and a new mini. Immediately got the v70 error. In my case, it's right after I "name" the mini and it just puts up a "TiVo DVR Not Found" error page without displaying any info on whether it even sees the roamio. I assume that's because it's the only Tivo box on the network. 

Current state:
- Roamio working great
- Streaming to iPad working great
- Both the roamio and mini show as activated in my account, same account
- I've confirmed they can talk by sniffing the ethernet and seeing active connections between the two

I've tried everything in this thread:
- force connections, multiple times on the roamio
- rename the roamio, and mini
- check off/on the allow streaming @tivo.com
- purchased another mini from best buy, same result (first was from amazon)

Every time I call tivo, they tell me to wait 72 hours (even though it's been well over 72). Very frustrating. I really like the roamio, but without the mini it could be a no go. Any ideas?? Thanks!


----------



## lessd

jhacker said:


> Hi, I'm having the same issue. Installed brand new Roamio last week, and a new mini. Immediately got the v70 error. In my case, it's right after I "name" the mini and it just puts up a "TiVo DVR Not Found" error page without displaying any info on whether it even sees the roamio. I assume that's because it's the only Tivo box on the network.
> 
> Current state:
> - Roamio working great
> - Streaming to iPad working great
> - Both the roamio and mini show as activated in my account, same account
> - I've confirmed they can talk by sniffing the ethernet and seeing active connections between the two
> 
> I've tried everything in this thread:
> - force connections, multiple times on the roamio
> - rename the roamio, and mini
> - check off/on the allow streaming @tivo.com
> - purchased another mini from best buy, same result (first was from amazon)
> 
> Every time I call tivo, they tell me to wait 72 hours (even though it's been well over 72). Very frustrating. I really like the roamio, but without the mini it could be a no go. Any ideas?? Thanks!


I connected 5 Minis to one Roamio Plus and it took me 5 to 6 days before all minis were working, I did many forced call homes, but now it works with all 5 Minis.


----------



## djmike0408

jhacker said:


> Hi, I'm having the same issue. Installed brand new Roamio last week, and a new mini. Immediately got the v70 error. In my case, it's right after I "name" the mini and it just puts up a "TiVo DVR Not Found" error page without displaying any info on whether it even sees the roamio. I assume that's because it's the only Tivo box on the network.
> 
> Current state:
> - Roamio working great
> - Streaming to iPad working great
> - Both the roamio and mini show as activated in my account, same account
> - I've confirmed they can talk by sniffing the ethernet and seeing active connections between the two
> 
> I've tried everything in this thread:
> - force connections, multiple times on the roamio
> - rename the roamio, and mini
> - check off/on the allow streaming @tivo.com
> - purchased another mini from best buy, same result (first was from amazon)
> 
> Every time I call tivo, they tell me to wait 72 hours (even though it's been well over 72). Very frustrating. I really like the roamio, but without the mini it could be a no go. Any ideas?? Thanks!


I'm having the same problems and getting the same run around from Tivo support ... 'wait, we're working on the issue', but this issue has been going on for a month and I've sunk a boat load of $ into Tivo equipment and lifetime subscriptions to only have the Roamio working and none of my 4 Minis working with it!


----------



## MisterWho

djmike0408 said:


> I'm having the same problems and getting the same run around from Tivo support ... 'wait, we're working on the issue', but this issue has been going on for a month and I've sunk a boat load of $ into Tivo equipment and lifetime subscriptions to only have the Roamio working and none of my 4 Minis working with it!


Maybe this is a specific issue different from my experiences but I know that I could not get my new Roamio and Mini to keep a connection (Mini would not even register at first) until I replaced 1000 Mhz splitter with one that is 2400 Mhz. Also, I had to connect the host Roamio directly to my router rather than a switch it was initially connected to (not a "green" switch that is giving others problems, either). Connected to the switch, both units would loose connection to internet temporarily and the Mini would drop connection to the Roamio (fixed by going back to Tivo Central and trying again). I also separated my cable modem from the Moca side and terminated all open connectors with those screw on cap things for good measure.


----------



## jhacker

Tivo has acknowledged there is a "permission" issue with my minis on their end. They have escalated my ticket. Stay tuned..


----------



## moyekj

jhacker said:


> Tivo has acknowledged there is a "permission" issue with my minis on their end. They have escalated my ticket. Stay tuned..


 You think they would have learned by now that this is 1st thing to check?? I just hate these secret account settings that we have no control or visibility over...


----------



## djmike0408

jhacker said:


> Tivo has acknowledged there is a "permission" issue with my minis on their end. They have escalated my ticket. Stay tuned..


They fixed the issue last night with a software update (posted in another thread listed below). HooRay!! I've got one Mini now up and running ... have to do the other three this weekend.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9823055#post9823055


----------



## jhacker

Just recycled power, and connection picked up the update. took about 30 mins to apply, all good now!


----------



## jmpage2

What is ridiculous is TiVo CSRs insisting it could take up to SIX DAYS in the first place. That was utter hogwash right from the get go. They need to train their people to do more than read a script and push customers off.


----------



## thorpemark

Well, here it is, late November, and this Tivo Mini V70 problem is still going on.. at least for me. I have only had the Roamio Pro and Mini trying to connect for about 32 hours now, but I have read so many things in these threads my mind is just dazed as to what the issues is. Tech said wait 72 hours but that seems so random and arbitrary I figured there must be something else that is wrong. It just seems like the tech was just kicking the can down the road.

I have xfinity and a comcast motorola cablecard that works nicely with the roamio pro.. 6 tuners, rock solid so far.

I am connecting via ethernet and both units get network access. 

v70 error every time the mini gets tot he point it should find the Roamio.

I have tried renaming and re-powering up both units. I have tried unplugging the old TivoHDs so the only two units on the net were the mini and roamio. I have tried connecting both the roamio and mini directly to the router hub (formerly both connected to same switch near the entertainment unit). Both units in same room now for setup.. after testing plan is to run ethernet to 2nd room and use mini there (and replace a TivoHD there).

So, the issues I have seen in these threads:

- something regarding comcast xfinity on-demand issues
- some kind of software update for the mini (but I have connected to the net many times now and have to believe the mini should be good there.. bought it from tivo with a LT activation).
- some suggestion re: switches.. so I connected them both to same router hub.. linksys e4200 running dd-wrt.
- rename and reboot - done several times
- wait 72 hours... waiting.. but seeing how in this thread it took someone 35 days is not encouraging

Anyone have a suggestion or does waiting 72 hours really do somethng?


----------



## DeltaOne

thorpemark said:


> Well, here it is, late November, and this Tivo Mini V70 problem is still going on.. at least for me. I have only had the Roamio Pro and Mini trying to connect for about 32 hours now, but I have read so many things in these threads my mind is just dazed as to what the issues is. Tech said wait 72 hours but that seems so random and arbitrary I figured there must be something else that is wrong.


About two months ago we purchased a Roamio Plus and two Minis. Once the Roamio was set up each Mini failed set up with an error message (I don't recall the exact error). Tech support said the Minis were "missing" some software and he would turn in a ticket and the software would be pushed out "in 3 to 5 days." When I complained about waiting so long he said to try rebooting everything as it "might work." These things are imaged from a master -- I don't understand how they could be "missing" some software.

I rebooted the Roamio, then both Minis. One Mini finished setup normally, the second Mini took two reboots. Weird.

It sounds like you've rebooted a few times, so your problem may be different than the one I saw.


----------



## khatlelid

thorpemark said:


> Well, here it is, late November, and this Tivo Mini V70 problem is still going on.. at least for me. I have only had the Roamio Pro and Mini trying to connect for about 32 hours now, but I have read so many things in these threads my mind is just dazed as to what the issues is. Tech said wait 72 hours but that seems so random and arbitrary I figured there must be something else that is wrong. It just seems like the tech was just kicking the can down the road.
> 
> I have xfinity and a comcast motorola cablecard that works nicely with the roamio pro.. 6 tuners, rock solid so far.
> 
> I am connecting via ethernet and both units get network access.
> 
> v70 error every time the mini gets tot he point it should find the Roamio.
> 
> I have tried renaming and re-powering up both units. I have tried unplugging the old TivoHDs so the only two units on the net were the mini and roamio. I have tried connecting both the roamio and mini directly to the router hub (formerly both connected to same switch near the entertainment unit). Both units in same room now for setup.. after testing plan is to run ethernet to 2nd room and use mini there (and replace a TivoHD there).
> 
> So, the issues I have seen in these threads:
> 
> - something regarding comcast xfinity on-demand issues
> - some kind of software update for the mini (but I have connected to the net many times now and have to believe the mini should be good there.. bought it from tivo with a LT activation).
> - some suggestion re: switches.. so I connected them both to same router hub.. linksys e4200 running dd-wrt.
> - rename and reboot - done several times
> - wait 72 hours... waiting.. but seeing how in this thread it took someone 35 days is not encouraging
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion or does waiting 72 hours really do somethng?


I'm getting basically the same deal. A roamio, two minis. Two minis stuck on V70 after probably entire days of troubleshooting and many hours with customer support, many days of waiting, I'm pretty much at 72 hours with no joy. I'm about to just return them all Monday and get my money back from Tivo if I can't get a more sane response than "keep waiting".


----------



## khatlelid

jmpage2 said:


> What is ridiculous is TiVo CSRs insisting it could take up to SIX DAYS in the first place. That was utter hogwash right from the get go. They need to train their people to do more than read a script and push customers off.


Agree. The CSR folks, while polite, are not trained or given sufficient tools to actually diagnose anything. Nothing is quite as frustrating as somebody saying "ok, now we are going to try rebooting three times". Really????? How about I break out my lucky rubber debugging chicken?

Intensely frustrated.


----------



## Loach

The more I read on this forum the more content I am to just stand pat with my Premiere 4 and two Minis that are working well. There was never any ridiculous 72+ hour waiting period when setting up my Minis with the Premiere. My only real irritation with the Premiere is the Netflix app, but I'll probably just get a Roku if it becomes a real problem.


----------



## HarperVision

When I had this issue I took the minis over to the pro's location, activated moca on the pro and hooked the minis to a coax splitter along with the pro and voila, connectomundo! Once they connected and associated themselves with the pro, I disconnected them, turned off moca in the pro and reinstalled them in their permanent locations via ethernet and they found it right away. Try it, it may work and its better than dealing with the TiVo clown car.


----------



## MikePA1

Loach said:


> The more I read on this forum the more content I am to just stand pat with my Premiere 4 and two Minis that are working well. There was never any ridiculous 72+ hour waiting period when setting up my Minis with the Premiere. My only real irritation with the Premiere is the Netflix app, but I'll probably just get a Roku if it becomes a real problem.


Basing your actions, or inactions, on posts on this forum is illogical.

I replaced two cableco DVRs with a Roamio Basic, Mini and Stream and had zero problems setting them up or since. and there are probably hundreds of thousands of other people who have had zero problems.

Almost no one posts here when things work as designed.


----------



## beobuff

khatlelid said:


> Agree. The CSR folks, while polite, are not trained or given sufficient tools to actually diagnose anything. Nothing is quite as frustrating as somebody saying "ok, now we are going to try rebooting three times". Really????? How about I break out my lucky rubber debugging chicken?
> 
> Intensely frustrated.


Is the rubber chicken available at a discounted price from Best Buy or must it be bought at full price from Tivo? What is the cost of Lifetime Service? Just asking.


----------



## Loach

MikePA1 said:


> Basing your actions, or inactions, on posts on this forum is illogical.
> 
> I replaced two cableco DVRs with a Roamio Basic, Mini and Stream and had zero problems setting them up or since. and there are probably hundreds of thousands of other people who have had zero problems.
> 
> Almost no one posts here when things work as designed.


I completely understand all your points, and if I was coming from cableco DVRs the concerns expressed on this forum would probably would not dissuade me from switching to Tivo. But that is not my situation, so I need compelling reasons to upgrade, and to this point I'm not finding them.


----------



## khatlelid

My rubber debugging chicken worked. 8)

Despite all the "voodoo" here and with the CSR/Tech support, the issue was a software version mismatch with the Roamio and the minis. Last night either they posted the update or the carrier pigeons which comprise their back end delivered it, but on a last ditch attempt before reboxing and returning to Amazon, the Mini connected, took the update, and worked.

So - I think the tech support is pretty poor. I think the back end and diagnostic tools are weak and probably insufficient. Ultimately though, I like the mini form factor, and when it works it's a really useful little unit.

Please TiVo guys reading this - add better diagnostics and train people better.


----------



## todd_j_derr

You may remember me as the poor sap who dominated pages 4-7 of this thread and wasted an embarrassing amount of time trying to get them working... well, all of that is behind me and my Minis have been working great, so I decided to buy another one, and... V70! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

However, before I hit the roof, I waited a bit (and maybe forced a call from one of the Tivos) and the V70 went away pretty quickly, I think it was less than an hour. It's probably significant that I bought it from Amazon and activated service myself just before I installed it.


----------



## sangs

Glad I found this thread. Or at least I think I am. 

Bought a Roamio Pro and Mini today. The Roamio setup went smoothly, it's provisioned for MOCA. I thought everything was working well with the Mini during setup, until I received this V70 error that it couldn't find another Tivo DVR. Did the live chat and the only answer the guy had was to wait 24 hours, which seemed ridiculous to me. Now I'm not sure if I should try all the advice here, or just wait the 24 hours first.


----------



## jmpage2

Force calls on both the Roamio and Mini a couple of times. If you still get V70 wait until tomorrow and then call TiVo.

Also... make sure that both your Mini and Roamio have done updates.


----------



## sangs

All good. I renamed the Roamio, as somebody suggested in this thread, and within minutes the Mini completed the process and is currently up and running. Oh and they've both done updates.


----------



## sangs

Well now I have to correct myself. Several times this morning I get a V87 Error Code on my Mini and it won't let me watch Live TV. It then seems to autocorrect without me doing anything other than pressing the Tivo button. This is going to cause some problems if it's a recurring issue.


----------



## skiingyac

Having the same V70 issue with my roamio plus and mini... both did updates after I got them. Was told to wait 72 hours, did that, now told that it is a big issue and a software update is being issued for the roamios, perhaps in the next few days... tried renaming, no luck.

They told me to just keep trying every day or two to see if it works.


----------



## skiingyac

Just plugged in the mini again today and it got an update, now it is working.


----------



## sd1236

Initial setup of Roamio Pro - No Problem
Mini needed to be on same router, or moca connection. Received moca adapter and was able to connect with no problems.
Required moca adapter since Roamio Pro was not located where cable modem was. Need to connect moca adapter directly to cable company modem.

All is working great. All units able to see each other.


----------



## ncfoster

sd1236 said:


> Initial setup of Roamio Pro - No Problem
> Mini needed to be on same router, or moca connection. Received moca adapter and was able to connect with no problems.
> Required moca adapter since Roamio Pro was not located where cable modem was. Need to connect moca adapter directly to cable company modem.
> 
> All is working great. All units able to see each other.


Obviously, I am glad that it is working for you, but I am trying to understand why you need a MoCA adapter if you have a Roamio Pro in the mix. Is there something unique about your setup?


----------



## Bigg

ncfoster said:


> Obviously, I am glad that it is working for you, but I am trying to understand why you need a MoCA adapter if you have a Roamio Pro in the mix. Is there something unique about your setup?


As stated in sd's post, Roamio not located near router.


----------



## headless chicken

jmpage2 said:


> What is ridiculous is TiVo CSRs insisting it could take up to SIX DAYS in the first place. That was utter hogwash right from the get go. They need to train their people to do more than read a script and push customers off.


It's one year later and the v70 issue still persists. I set up my mini and got the "Tivo DVR Not Found" message so I called Tivo, and was told it would take between 24-64 hours for the Mini to be active!!


----------



## tatergator1

headless chicken said:


> It's one year later and the v70 issue still persists. I set up my mini and got the "Tivo DVR Not Found" message so I called Tivo, and was told it would take between 24-64 hours for the Mini to be active!!


Force a service connection on DVR and reboot. Also, reboot the Mini and try it then. I had the same thing during my setup 9 months ago. All it took was that. Both pieces have to have recently contacted the Tivo servers so they know they are authorized to work together.


----------



## headless chicken

tatergator1 said:


> Force a service connection on DVR and reboot. Also, reboot the Mini and try it then.


Thanks, that worked. I asked the Tivo rep on the phone if I should force connect on my Roamio to expedite the process and he said no, it wouldn't do anything.


----------



## Prefrosh01

I am also experiencing the V70 error. I activated my Mini 24 hours prior to installing it hoping to avoid these issues, but I still received the DVR Not Found message.

I had a chat session with tech support and they echoed what others have said...simply wait 24 hours or more.


----------



## tatergator1

Prefrosh01 said:


> I am also experiencing the V70 error. I activated my Mini 24 hours prior to installing it hoping to avoid these issues, but I still received the DVR Not Found message.
> 
> I had a chat session with tech support and they echoed what others have said...simply wait 24 hours or more.


Did you then ignore what Tivo told you and do as I advised a few posts above?


----------



## Prefrosh01

I just found this post this morning and when I get home from work I am going to try that and see if I can get it to work. I did a force connection on the Roamio, but that didn't seem to do anything. It was recording shows last night, so I did not want to do a reboot at that time, but hopefully that will do the trick!


----------



## Prefrosh01

Update - After rebooting both boxes and spending close to an hour on the phone with a CSR I still am getting the V70 error.

Here are the steps I used rebooting:
1. Disconnect Mini
2. On the Roamio - Connect to Tivo Service Now
3. Repeat Connect to Tivo Service a second time
4. Reboot the Roamio
5. Connect to Tivo Service for a third time
6 Connect Mini and go through Setup

After this failed attempt I decided to move the Mini down to the main floor and hardwire it directly into the same modem/router that the Roamio is connected to, but even here I am getting the same V70 error...any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jmpage2

I think another call to TiVo is in order, you've done all of the obvious stuff to clear the error at this point.


----------



## Prefrosh01

That's what I was thinking too...unfortunately.

Last night the Tech Support Rep was totally stumped as all his charts kept saying to call the cable provider, but I am only using OTA.

Is there a way I can bypass the first level of tech support so I don't have to jump through all the same hoops again?


----------



## kokishin

Prefrosh01 said:


> Update - After rebooting both boxes and spending close to an hour on the phone with a CSR I still am getting the V70 error.
> 
> Here are the steps I used rebooting:
> 1. Disconnect Mini
> 2. On the Roamio - Connect to Tivo Service Now
> 3. Repeat Connect to Tivo Service a second time
> 4. Reboot the Roamio
> 5. Connect to Tivo Service for a third time
> 6 Connect Mini and go through Setup
> 
> After this failed attempt I decided to move the Mini down to the main floor and hardwire it directly into the same modem/router that the Roamio is connected to, but even here I am getting the same V70 error...any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Not sure if you're using Moca or Ethernet (although you mention you connected your Mini to your router so I presume you're using Ethernet) to connect the Mini to the Roamio but you might have a step missing in the above list.

I have a Roamio Pro and a Mini. I have the Mini connected to the Pro via Moca which is working well. If possible, I recommend you use Moca instead of Ethernet to connect your Roamio to your Mini. I understand that if you have the Roamio with OTA tuners, it does not have integrated Moca so the Ethernet connection is more straight forward.

Using Moca between the Roamio and the Mini:
Connect the Ethernet cable to your Roamio and to your router (I have mine going through a switch and then to my router). There is no need to connect the Mini to Ethernet.
On your Roamio, make sure you go to Tivo Central->Settings & Messages->Settings->Network->Change Network Settings and choose the setting to Ethernet + Moca. Since my Pro is already set up, I cannot provide the exact settings since the on screen menu changes from the initial setup. But you should be able to find them. The key is to make sure that both Ethernet (for your Pro) and Moca is enabled. On your Mini under Network Settings, choose the option to use Moca. The Mini should connect to your Roamio. If the Mini does not connect, try power cycling the Mini.

Using Ethernet between the Roamio and the Mini:
I have not tried this so I can only speculate. In this case, you need to have your Roamio and our Mini connected with Ethernet cables to your router or through a switch. Then under on your Roamio under Network settings, choose the option to enable Ethernet only. Moca should be disabled. On your Mini under Network Settings, choose the option to use Ethernet. The Mini should connect to your Roamio. If the Mini does not connect, try power cycling the Mini.

Edit: Since you have a Basic Roamio, then ignore the above Moca connection instructions between your Roamio and your Mini.


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## swong_88

Prefrosh01 said:


> That's what I was thinking too...unfortunately.
> 
> Last night the Tech Support Rep was totally stumped as all his charts kept saying to call the cable provider, but I am only using OTA.
> 
> Is there a way I can bypass the first level of tech support so I don't have to jump through all the same hoops again?


Something to also check as someone else on this thread mentioned a while ago, make sure that the name of the Mini is the same as it is stated on the Tivo Account.. When you log into your Tivo Account on Tivo.com and go to your Account information, it will list the names of all of your Tivo Devices. Make sure that the name matches what you name it when it is trying to initially connect... If the Name is something like Tivo_Room5 on your Tivo.com website, make sure that it is also named that when the Mini setup asks you for it's name.. Hope this helps..


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## Prefrosh01

Thank you for the suggestions and I will be sure to look at the naming tonight, but from the account screen it appears as if everything is named the same.

I originally had the Mini set up on a Moca network using the Actiontec ECB2500's, but I just moved it down and hardwired it for testing purposes. Once I get everything up and running I will be going back to a Moca setup.


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## Prefrosh01

Update - I was finally able to get everything to work over the weekend. I'm not sure what changed, but after one of the reboot sequences it just worked!


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## Toeside

I'm replacing my Roamio Plus with a Roamio OTA that I purchased and activated 3 nights ago (2/16). 

The two Minis, which have been working for over a year with the Roamio Plus get the v70 error when trying to switch the host DVR to the Roamio OTA. 

I've forced connections, renamed RoamioOTA to "Family Room", forced more connections, rebooted everything. I even moved one of the Minis to the same location as the Roamio, eliminating a switch which TiVo says they don't support. 

Now what?


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## h2oskierc

Toeside said:


> Now what?


Wait. For some reason TiVo can't make things happen right away. Took 24 hours for my Mini to work with my Plus.

If you still have the plus, I believe you could set that up again, and use that for the host, and then switch the host to the OTA later.


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## Toeside

h2oskierc said:


> Wait. For some reason TiVo can't make things happen right away. Took 24 hours for my Mini to work with my Plus.
> 
> If you still have the plus, I believe you could set that up again, and use that for the host, and then switch the host to the OTA later.


I activated the Roamio OTA 72 hours ago (at the time I posted last night). I figured that was long enough but I'll check everything again tonight.

Thanks.


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## Toeside

Toeside said:


> I activated the Roamio OTA 72 hours ago (at the time I posted last night). I figured that was long enough but I'll check everything again tonight.
> 
> Thanks.


Apparently 84 hours was enough. I forced a call this morning on the Roamio OTA, then forced a call on each mini and I was able to set it as the host DVR.


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## jrdeacon

If a mini has the wrong MAK they still don't seem to know how to fix this. as of October 2nd, 2015.

Maybe they have a magic wand they wave and either some people give up or as someone earlier noted an alpha particle hits the chip just right.

24 hour wait for a key stroke is bad enough, but telling me wait 72 for the most basic ask that sounds like it may or may not work after 4+ days. Now that's confidence in your back office system if I ever heard of it.

Past the 24 hour mark and no love and no progress, if 86 hours is the magic number I will deal with it because I am stuck with lifetime subscriptions but not happy.

Support is absolutely clueless about this issue. And tier 2 doesn't care or know either. 

Can't get a Roamio OTA to pair on second mini, first mini works fine, second has wrong MAK.

How freaking hard could it be to just fix this. It costs them more in man hours for reps that can't fix the problem and frustrated customers.

I now rank customer service of Tivo right up there with Comcast. Avoid at all costs.

These are they types of issues that make people reverse engineer the technology because the vendor grew to fast or the few good engineers they had left.

Once locked in as lifetime customer I guess they don't care in the short run.


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## bengalfreak

What is MAK?


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## jrdeacon

Media Access Key


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## jrdeacon

Don't fee bad that you didn't know what a MAK is, neither does support when you call them to help change it. They thought I was talking about the MAC address of the Ethernet port.


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## lessd

Without forcing call home on your TiVo and Mini it can take two to three days for the Mini to syc. to your TiVo.


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## GIXX1300

My Roamio Plus and Mini will arrive today, going to try the wireless route before committing to Moca.


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## HarperVision

GIXX1300 said:


> My Roamio Plus and Mini will arrive today, going to try the wireless route before committing to Moca.


Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that. Unless you have a high quality wireless adapter to use instead of the internal wireless built into the Roamio?


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## GIXX1300

HarperVision said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that. Unless you have a high quality wireless adapter to use instead of the internal wireless built into the Roamio?


Arrived today and it's up and running. I have the mini plugged into a DAP1522 and it works like a champ. Very pleased so far.


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## HarperVision

GIXX1300 said:


> Arrived today and it's up and running. I have the mini plugged into a DAP1522 and it works like a champ. Very pleased so far.


You're using that as the wireless to ethernet bridge for the Roamio?


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## GIXX1300

HarperVision said:


> You're using that as the wireless to ethernet bridge for the Roamio?


Heres my setup..

I have the Mini Plugged into the DAP-1522(bridge mode). The Roamio is using its built in wireless. All this is fed wirelessly by my Asus RT-N66. It works like a Tivo is hooked up with no lag. Only(slight) difference I see is a ever so slight studder on the 8 second skip back. Im running 1080i also.


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## HarperVision

GIXX1300 said:


> Heres my setup.. I have the Mini Plugged into the DAP-1522(bridge mode). The Roamio is using its built in wireless. All this is fed wirelessly by my Asus RT-N66. It works like a Tivo is hooked up with no lag. Only(slight) difference I see is a ever so slight studder on the 8 second skip back. Im running 1080i also.


Hmmmm, interesting. How close is the Roamio to the router?


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## aaronwt

I've been using a bunch of the DAP1522 models in Bridge mode for many years. they have always worked great. I can stream BD ISOs over wireless with the bridge with no problems. Lower bitrate broadcast content is even easier.


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## GIXX1300

HarperVision said:


> Hmmmm, interesting. How close is the Roamio to the router?


I'd guesstimate 40ft. and 2 walls. :up:


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