# Lost - Fire + Water - 1/25



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Starting this thread now just so I can mention that tonight will be the first LOST episode that I will see in HD. I am so excited. I have my surround sound all setup, new 50" Plasma setup and antenna pulling in channel 6. I hope the HD adds a whole extra layer of good time TV tonight.


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## hyimted (Apr 13, 2003)

i officially hate you.


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## dnemec123 (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm officially jealous!


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

*ENVY*


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

Its a shame the sound synch is so bad this episode. Don't blame it on your new equipment.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Well Charlie is now officially more of a pariah than Anna Lucia was a few episode ago


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

to me, this was a bit of a filler episode...not much new going on


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

what is anna lucia building? something that has to do with them fighting the others?


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

Paperboy2003 said:


> to me, this was a bit of a filler episode...not much new going on


i felt the same way


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

no, its a shed for her to live in


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

AH! he burnt ecko's trees!


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

TSuellentrop said:


> AH! he burnt ecko's trees!


oops never mind


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

well I guess the writers are allowed to have 1 mistake per season, but I am not sure I can watch another one like this.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

why would John save the statues??

Interesting.....


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

what do you mean mistake?


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

why did charlie take the tape off his fingers that say "FATE"?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Good coming attractions....you know Sweeps are a comin'


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

locke is becoming pretty suspisious..


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I'm losing interest... they better do something exciting and revealing soon! (The SO even fell asleep durng the show tonight.)


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

Interesting - I thought this week was MUCH better than last weeks. IT does appear that Locke is giving off 'bad' or 'dark' vibes. He was definately giving Claire and Aaron the evil eye when Charlie was talking to Eko.

Also - nice shout out to the fans about the washer/dryer. 

Hurley was acting weird in the hatch - like he was confused about where he was and if he knew the girl.


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

Definately one of the worst episodes, not much going on. I thought we might get _something_- but no, nothing. I did like the washer and dryer line, as well as ana lucia asking about the jungle. It shows that just because they don't _show_ them talking about stuff doesn't automatically mean it isn't talked about.

Fav line: Whatever sawyer said to Hurley that ended in "Jabba." lol


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## stevemcl (Nov 23, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> why would John save the statues??
> 
> Interesting.....


In case they need to hack anyones limbs off..

Might be a good pain killer.....


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

- I wonder if Hurley was wondering if Libby knows that he's a lottery winner and that that is the real reason she's showing interest in him? (Or maybe she's the "mole" and he remembers her assisting the "company" when they kidnapped him and implanted false memories in his head... What?  )

- I, too, thought Locke was giving off "dark" vibes. If Eko is his "light" counterpart (or vice versa), he can't be too happy that Charlie's visions were driving Claire and Aaron to Eko.

It was out of character for Locke to dismiss Charlie's visions. Any other person on the island would have more than a good enough reason to dismiss Charlie, but not Locke, who believes strongly in power of the island to communicate with people. He was either purposely deceiving Charlie or the "island" was influencing him toward acting that way.

The last time Locke was physically violent was when he knocked Sayid out and destroyed the radio. Then he was also acting on behalf of the "island".


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## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

Towards the end with Charlie and the baby at the water it looked like he was certainly using. But in the conversation with Jack he said he wasn't... and that seemed believable. If he really wasn't using what in the hell just happened to him? Was the island getting inside his head and making him do things? (sleepwalk, vivid dreams)

He did have a point regarding Kate/Horse & Several/Walt

Did the baby need to be baptised in order to be classified officially as "good" and now he'll become a MAJOR target by the Ethan/Goodwin "Other's"

Why did Locke change the combo on the safe again? Did Charlie know it before? 

Loved the Jabba line and the washing machine comment. :up:


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

I thought Libby was a nurse -- maybe Hurley remembers her from his stint in the mental hospital?


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## cancermatt (May 21, 2002)

I guess I missed the "jabba" line, anyone still have the ep to quote it?

Good ep, not great. I like it when things aren't thrown at the viewer left and right, so slower eps. are good IMO. Not being a hater like some people. 

I'm enjoying Mr. Eko more and more each week. What a great character and actor.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

The line from Sawyer was, "Whoa, gotta a little love connection going on over there, Jabba?"

Sadly, that and the washer/dryer line were the best parts of the episode. Other than this was also my first episode seen in HD. Pretty.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

crowfan said:


> I thought Libby was a nurse -- maybe Hurley remembers her from his stint in the mental hospital?


She is a psychiatrist


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> She is a psychiatrist


Even better.


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

What struck me odd is Charlie seemed to imply several people saw Walt. The only one of the current survivors we know saw Walt until now was Sayid.
For me the episode wasn't great, but not bad either. A poor episode of Lost is still better then most television.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Subtle pieces in and amongst the scenes:

When the white dove appears in Charlie's dream (right above the Virgin Claire and the Virgin Mum), a black dove appears to be right behind or beside it. It is gone when Charlie turns to watch it go by. A trick of the light perhaps, a shadow even, but it caught my eye.

There is a stuffed polar bear in the crib during Driveshaft's commercial shoot. In the other corner is a regular stuffed bear.

The line that Kate sees a horse and everyone sees Walt means that plenty of conversation has taken place about the Walt sightings. If *only* Shannon had seen him, then it would be a bit difficult to say she must be crazy. Being dead, and all. (_We_ know Sayid has seen him.)

Sawyer also calls Hurley "Jethro" at one point. We also see why Charlie plays bass and doesn't sing lead in Driveshaft.

Isn't it obvious why Locke kept the statues? It's an ace in the hole to take Charlie down in the future, just in case. He could plant one, or just plain give Charlie one.

Locke doesn't want to hear about Charlie's dream because he is starting to doubt. Trust in the island dropped a little after that encounter with Mr Friendly. Locke looked a touch, well lost afterwards.


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## sfenton (Feb 8, 2004)

It looks like Locke is going to keep the vault to himself.

I can see possibly keeping the heroin but keeping the statues themselves is something more.


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## boywaja (Sep 30, 2001)

canonelan2 said:


> Why did Locke change the combo on the safe again? Did Charlie know it before?


When they were locked in their by michael, I assume he had to give out the combo to someone to let them out. Good security would then reset the combo and only give it to those with need to know.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

flyers088 said:


> well I guess the writers are allowed to have 1 mistake per season, but I am not sure I can watch another one like this.


Ditto. This was by far the most boring, uninteresting episode so far. It was all I could do to watch it through to the end. If I were on the island, I'd tie Clair, Charlie, Locke and the baby together and set them adrift. No redeeming value whatsoever.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Not a great episode in my view. Didn't like what they did to Charlie's character. Locke and Eko seemed somehow important to the story but nevertheless strangely peripheral to the action.

I did like dream "painting on the beach" with Claire as the Madonna. Anyone know what biblical character was Hurley was meant to be? Or specifically what painting was being portrayed?

And if Eko was John the Baptist baptising the baby Jesus, what biblical character did Lock represent?


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I wonder if Charlies visions are somehow related to the "sickness" that Rosseau referred to and/or Charlie's near-death experience?


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> When the white dove appears in Charlie's dream (right above the Virgin Claire and the Virgin Mum), a black dove appears to be right behind or beside it. It is gone when Charlie turns to watch it go by. A trick of the light perhaps, a shadow even, but it caught my eye.


I noticed it too - assumed it was meant to be the shadow of the dove as it emerged from the "painting".


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> She is a psychiatrist


I thought she was a psychologist.
When Ana Lucia asked her if she was a doctor, Libby said that she wasn't an MD but had some medical training, then I think she said Psychology.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

Boring filler episode for sure every show has them time to time. I just hope they are almost done with charlies back story because it is bloody boring.

I did get a good laugh out of ana asking jack if he is "hitting it". I also got a chuckle out of hurley almost pissing himself in fear in the laundery room with libby. I wonder if dude is a virgin because I never seen a dude more uncomforable around women. Maybe that could be a fun back story of hurley striking out with chicks.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

Delta13 said:


> When the white dove appears in Charlie's dream (right above the Virgin Claire and the Virgin Mum), a black dove appears to be right behind or beside it. It is gone when Charlie turns to watch it go by. A trick of the light perhaps, a shadow even, but it caught my eye.


Nope, it wasn't a Dove, it was Kate's Airplane crashing on the island. The flash just before the Dove appears would theoretically be the explosion of the plane crashing.

Locke certainly didn't want the baby Baptized.

Locke, also, wanted to keep the statues for himself. My first thought was that LOCKE was using. With the plane burned up, Charlie's stash would have been all that was left. THAT would be a reason for Locke to follow Charlie into the jungle. That would also be a reason for Locke to take it with him (and not tell Claire) and hide it away. It could be future blackmail material, but I think there is a more immediate need that hasn't yet been disclosed.

Hurley forgetting? THIS could be the reason he was in the happy house many moons ago.


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## heyitscory (Apr 6, 2004)

The mention of the washing machine was a reference to something?


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> Subtle pieces in and amongst the scenes:
> 
> When the white dove appears in Charlie's dream (right above the Virgin Claire and the Virgin Mum), a black dove appears to be right behind or beside it. It is gone when Charlie turns to watch it go by. A trick of the light perhaps, a shadow even, but it caught my eye.


Also, there was the sound of a plane at the beginning of this scene. Just for a few seconds. The sound of the plane stopped (engine failed?) and then the dove(s) dove down over the beach.

It didn't sound like the engine of a jet airliner. But a small plane. More like the plane Eko's brother and ex-partners were on.


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

JYoung said:


> I thought she was a psychologist.
> When Ana Lucia asked her if she was a doctor, Libby said that she wasn't an MD but had some medical training, then I think she said Psychology.


Right. I think she said she was a clinical psychologist. Guess there could be some connection with Hurley's past.


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

heyitscory said:


> The mention of the washing machine was a reference to something?


There have been many comments here on the age of things in the bunker - the music is from the 70s, the exercise bike looked like something from the 70s as well. The washer/dryer are clearly much more recent.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Seems to me that Locke and Charlie are in a race to see who will be the first new Other. Charlie seems to have the edge at the moment, but I'd never count Locke out!


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

So when is the next new episode? This one was okay, but not one of the better ones.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Unlike most, I enjoyed the episode. It didn't really advance much (obvious) plot, but I suspect they're going to use this as a springboard for whatever they have planned for Claire's baby. I don't like where they're taking Charlie - but because I like Charlie, and he's heading for Dark Territory.

A few points other have made that are tidbits tossed out:
- Hurley likely knows Libby from his stent in the mental hospital
- Nice comment about the washer/dryer being "newer" than everything else in the bunker
- A good explanation for why the entire group isn't sleeping in the bunker - "A loud alarm going off every hour and a half isn't good for sleep"
- It's more clear that things are being discussed in the group (Kate's horse, Walt's appearance).

Locke's decision to save the statues surprised me. If you assume Locke is pragmatic and not evil, it makes sense to save them as painkillers/sedatives - it's not like they have a pharmacy to run to for anesthetics or painkillers. If you assume Locke is getting mischievous - it's a good foil to derail Charlie in the future, or frame him for continued drug use.

And yep, I kept wondering if Charlie was getting "infected" by whatever Rousseau spoke about last season.

But irritated there was barely even a mention of Michael.


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## stevecon (Apr 29, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> to me, this was a bit of a filler episode...not much new going on


Agreed. This episode was a big yawn.. The previews for *next* week however, look to be completely different :up:


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## golfnut-n-nh (Nov 30, 2004)

bdlucas said:


> Not a great episode in my view. Didn't like what they did to Charlie's character. Locke and Eko seemed somehow important to the story but nevertheless strangely peripheral to the action.
> 
> I did like dream "painting on the beach" with Claire as the Madonna. Anyone know what biblical character was Hurley was meant to be? Or specifically what painting was being portrayed?
> 
> And if Eko was John the Baptist baptising the baby Jesus, what biblical character did Lock represent?


Judas?


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

stevecon said:


> Agreed. This episode was a big yawn.. The previews for *next* week however, look to be completely different :up:


That wasn't next week, that was "coming up". Next new episode is 02/08


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

See I have a problem with Hugo (Jabba haha!!) and Libby. He might not remember her but if they were in the hospital together at some point she would definately remember him. You don't easily forget people of his proportions....

Does anyone remember Hurley's episode? Did they show him stepping on her foot?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd rather watch a Vincent flashback than see another one featuring Charlie. What a loser.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> See I have a problem with Hugo (Jabba haha!!) and Libby. He might not remember her but if they were in the hospital together at some point she would definately remember him. You don't easily forget people of his proportions....
> 
> Does anyone remember Hurley's episode? Did they show him stepping on her foot?


Unless maybe she was at the hospital visiting another patient. Hurley remembers seeing her come to visit (because he's obviously attracted to her), but she was never in any contact with him, so she doesn't remember him.


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## golfnut-n-nh (Nov 30, 2004)

Did anyone notice the great use of symbolism with Charlie and his hood? The last scene of Charlie showed him with his hood up, an item to hid behind. In the beginning when he was using, the hood was always up, an instrument to hide his true self. As he became clean and got to know Claire and the baby we never saw the hood.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> Seems to me that Locke and Charlie are in a race to see who will be the first new Other. Charlie seems to have the edge at the moment, but I'd never count Locke out!


locke wears the same color (drab khaki) that those barefoot 'others' wear too.

the podcast mentioned an easter egg on one of the signs/billboards during the flashback. anyone catch it?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

how boring. I never read these threads because they are usually 500 by morning but read thru the 50 here now and glad to see i'm not the only one that thought it was poor.



bubba1972 said:


> Its a shame the sound synch is so bad this episode. Don't blame it on your new equipment.


no problems here OTA in philly area


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> See I have a problem with Hugo (Jabba haha!!) and Libby. He might not remember her but if they were in the hospital together at some point she would definately remember him. You don't easily forget people of his proportions....
> 
> Does anyone remember Hurley's episode? Did they show him stepping on her foot?


What makes you think she doesn't remember him?

The whole foot thing struck me as her desperate attempt to convince him that there was a reason she seemed familiar to him aside from the looney bin. The question for me is, is she interested because A) She's a psychologist, and he's an interesting head-case; B) She knows he's a rich dude; C) She's on assignment for The Others; D) She actually is attracted to him.

I'm guessing A, B, or C.


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## stevemcl (Nov 23, 2005)

golfnut-n-nh said:


> Did anyone notice the great use of symbolism with Charlie and his hood? The last scene of Charlie showed him with his hood up, an item to hid behind. In the beginning when he was using, the hood was always up, an instrument to hide his true self. As he became clean and got to know Claire and the baby we never saw the hood.


Yes, he looked kind of evil.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What makes you think she doesn't remember him?
> 
> The whole foot thing struck me as her desperate attempt to convince him that there was a reason she seemed familiar to him aside from the looney bin. The question for me is, is she interested because A) She's a psychologist, and he's an interesting head-case; B) She knows he's a rich dude; C) She's on assignment for The Others; D) She actually is attracted to him.
> 
> I'm guessing A, B, or C.


I was thinking B, she knows from the ward that he is filthy rich and is hoping to cash in when they get off the island


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What makes you think she doesn't remember him?
> 
> The whole foot thing struck me as her desperate attempt to convince him that there was a reason she seemed familiar to him aside from the looney bin. The question for me is, is she interested because A) She's a psychologist, and he's an interesting head-case; B) She knows he's a rich dude; C) She's on assignment for The Others; D) She actually is attracted to him.
> 
> I'm guessing A, B, or C.


I found it interesting that Libby didn't seem to have an answer for Hurley right away ... it took a second after she asked him to turn around, as if she had to really pluck her memory .. or his. Or she had to really try to remember the backstories she's been fed to infiltrate ... right after he started to remember her, she distracts him by putting on the dress. All very suspicious.

Note also she SAID she's a psychologist; we haven't seen a backstory ... so just because she said it doesn't mean she is it. The thought crossed my mind that she was another patient; a clever one who was able to absorb enough from her doctors that she can pretend fairly well.

Was Claire and Megan (Charlie's Mom) positioned to mirror the specific painting in Charlie's house at the beginning? Is that a famous painting?


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## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

I don't know whether this has been thoroughly dissected in the past, but no one mentioned it in connection with last night's (generally boring, repetitive) show--

Ever since the flight attendant Tailie (Cindy?) disappeared in the jungle, I have thought that Libby was an Other. And her excessive talk with Hurley about "remember stepping on my foot on the plane?" was very suspicious. She took off her shirt in a hurry to distract him.

If Libby is an Other, would she know that Hurley has the flight manifest/census? Probably not. He is a threat to her whether she or he knows it. I agree that Hurley and Libby could know each other from the outside world, but I still think she is very Other-y, perhaps connected to the Dharma project and studying human behavior. I just get the feeling she knew of the failed Dharma project, came to the island to see what the reamnants of it were, and joined in with the older Others who were already there, living among them as an anthropologist. When she was first introduced as a "clinical psychologist" in a show that is such a mind-bend, I felt like that was the TV writing equivalent of showing a gun in the first act of a play, knowing that it go off before the curtain falls.

I thought Charlie's flashback scenes were weakly written--repetitive, boring, way too obvious. Which was weirder, the Driveshaft in diapers scene or the fact that it was a "real" flashback and not a dream? I usually like flashbacks, but this week the island thread was more compelling. I sympathize for Charlie, I want to like him, but if you look at his behavior objectively this week he's getting dangerous.

I am intrigued by the idea even though Charlie's behavior was misguided and unacceptable, maybe somehow getting Aaron baptized will save him in a literal or metaphysical way.

I've never seen a baptism depicted on network TV before and it was a moving scene. Eko's character sure is one complicated guy. I've never seen another actor who can look both as menacing and as absolutely tender as Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje. He is awesome. Knowing he was a cold-blooded killer gave me shudders but he truly seems redeemed as a holy man now.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What makes you think she doesn't remember him?
> 
> The whole foot thing struck me as her desperate attempt to convince him that there was a reason she seemed familiar to him aside from the looney bin. The question for me is, is she interested because A) She's a psychologist, and he's an interesting head-case; B) She knows he's a rich dude; C) She's on assignment for The Others; D) She actually is attracted to him.
> 
> I'm guessing A, B, or C.


I too agree that the whole stepping on the foot thing was fictional. We know that Hurley was the last on the plane. We know that Libby is a "tailie". How would Hurley step on her foot getting on the plane if he would have been sitting in front of her.

Libby knows a lot more then she is letting on.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Weak episode. A few points of interest, but generally weak.

Locke's _keeping_ the statues/heroin combined with his rather over the top behavior in this episode (beating the crap out of Charlie on the beach was out of character, even for Locke, and completely unnecessary) make me wonder if Locke is in fact using. (As others previously mentioned.) _That_ would be a bizarre twist!!

I liked the washing machine comment.

Libby knows Hurley from the looney bin. That's the most likely explanation IMHO (she is a psychologist). She made up the stepping on the foot thing so as not to embarrass him. He was a patient, she was a clinician. (We have previously established, through a conversation Hurley had with Jack in an earlier episode, that Hurley was a patient at the mental hospital, not a visitor or volunteer.)

I do not think Libby is an "other". I just don't see it. I think that's reading too much into things.

As to her motive; why is it impossible to believe that a reasonably attractive woman likes a fat dude for his personality, without ulterior motives? (The same actress played Drew Carey's girlfriend, who had his baby, on Drew Carey, remember?) Perhaps she has an ulterior motive. But the notion that she simply _likes_ Hurley isn't that hard to swallow. _Most of *us* like Hurley!_ He's a nice, likable guy! He's got a cool sense of humor!


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> As to her motive; why is it impossible to believe that a reasonably attractive woman likes a fat dude for his personality, without ulterior motives? (The same actress played Drew Carey's girlfriend, who had his baby, on Drew Carey, remember?) Perhaps she has an ulterior motive. But the notion that she simply _likes_ Hurley isn't that hard to swallow. _Most of *us* like Hurley!_ He's a nice, likable guy! He's got a cool sense of humor!


Oh, it's not that it's not possible at all, it's just that she was acting kind of suspicious, which leads us to wonder what her motives are. If we had no reason to doubt her I am sure we could all buy them being together.


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## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

bro1ncos said:


> I too agree that the whole stepping on the foot thing was fictional. We know that Hurley was the last on the plane. We know that Libby is a "tailie". How would Hurley step on her foot getting on the plane if he would have been sitting in front of her.
> 
> Libby knows a lot more then she is letting on.


Very good point about the fact that he couldn't have stepped on a true "tailie"'s foot.

I hadn't made that specific connection...D'Oh!


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> That wasn't next week, that was "coming up". Next new episode is 02/08


I'm going to guess they were not even all from the next episode, but probably over the next few. Just a little excitement to get people worked up.


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## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

There is a lot of speculation that Libby was actually a patient at the psych hospital, and not a clinical psychologist. She definitely seems to be trying to distract Hurley from remembering where he actually knows her from.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

This appears to be the painting in Charlies childhood home. It depicts John the Baptist baptising Jesus. I think the women are Angels. Notice there is a black dove and a white dove. The black one is leaving. Symbolizing the removal of sin. The white one is being released by the "hands of God" symbolizing a lack of sin.

I thought the episode was pretty interesting. Why was Eko marking the trees that he liked? Why did the baby have to be baptised? Is he going to be their savior?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

robinreale said:


> There is a lot of speculation that Libby was actually a patient at the psych hospital, and not a clinical psychologist. She definitely seems to be trying to distract Hurley from remembering where he actually knows her from.


Intriguing speculation for a first post!

Welcome.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

My thoughts -

- Libby is not an "other". Regarding the foot thing, Barnard was in the tail section too, but his seat was in the front. Maybe she was in the second bathroom?
- Locke is not using heroin. He doesn't need drugs to act crazy.
- Libby could have been a patient at the same time as Hurley, and not a psychologist. Although honestly, I don't see any compelling argument to suggest that the story she told Ana Lucia isn't true.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

BeanMeScot said:


> This appears to be the painting in Charlies childhood home. It depicts John the Baptist baptising Jesus. I think the women are Angels. Notice there is a black dove and a white dove. The black one is leaving. Symbolizing the removal of sin. The white one is being released by the "hands of God" symbolizing a lack of sin.
> 
> I thought the episode was pretty interesting. Why was Eko marking the trees that he liked? Why did the baby have to be baptised? Is he going to be their savior?


The importance of Baptism to the Catholic Church is HUGE.

It is considered so important, that a Papal Order of about 500 years ago declared that a Baptism is valid _whoever_ performs it. IOW protestant baptisms are _recognized as valid_ by the Catholic Church. This is astounding since in most other respects the Catholic Church doesn't even give protestants the respect of considering them to be _Christians._

So, if Eko has become a seriously devout practicing priest, and we have strong evidence that he is, his interpretation of Charlie's dreams would be the importance of Aaron's Baptism.

Charlie is or has been a fairly devout Catholic as well (in his very first flashback last season we see him in a confessional). So, Eko's interpretation would be easily accepted by Charlie.


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## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

BeanMeScot said:


> This appears to be the painting in Charlies childhood home. It depicts John the Baptist baptising Jesus. I think the women are Angels. Notice there is a black dove and a white dove. The black one is leaving. Symbolizing the removal of sin. The white one is being released by the "hands of God" symbolizing a lack of sin.
> 
> I thought the episode was pretty interesting. Why was Eko marking the trees that he liked? Why did the baby have to be baptised? Is he going to be their savior?


I am so impressed you came up with the actual painting! Does anyone have any more info on it, title, artist, further links?

It figures that it would take "Lost" to get me interested in art history....maybe next epidode the islanders will figure out that broccoli cures cancer, prevents wrinkles, and tastes great, by golly.

About the trees, despite my last pro-Eko post, I am worried by the fact that the trees he singled out as ones he liked were later burned by Charlie's fire (do I have that detail right...correct me if not). Eko markes them as "saved" and then they are burned..... That whole scene about Charlie starting the fire was very strange.

Does anyone else think it interesting that more than once in the episode Charlie didn't exactly lie but didn't answer the questions that Locke and Jack asked (as they pointed out)? Perhaps a window into addict behavior. James Frey, are you watching?


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Me head hurts from reading the whole thread.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Food for thought:

Claire's baby's name is Aaron.

Aaron was the brother of Moses. According to the Bible, Moses was a relatively poor public speaker so Aaron usually spoke for Moses. He was Moses' "press secretary", if you will.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

Moses wasn't a 'poor' public speaker. He had a speech impediment:
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article.asp?AID=351039


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> Not a great episode in my view. Didn't like what they did to Charlie's character. Locke and Eko seemed somehow important to the story but nevertheless strangely peripheral to the action.
> 
> I did like dream "painting on the beach" with Claire as the Madonna. Anyone know what biblical character was Hurley was meant to be? Or specifically what painting was being portrayed?
> 
> And if Eko was John the Baptist baptising the baby Jesus, what biblical character did Lock represent?


I thought it looked like Mary mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene but then Charlie said they were angels and that made me think of The Annunciation. There were TONS of paintings of that so I'm not sure which one it could be.

I don't think Locke has gone to the darkside regarding the heroine. Someone other than him has to have the combination to the gun locker and that's where he stuck the Mary's.



MitchO said:


> Was Claire and Megan (Charlie's Mom) positioned to mirror the specific painting in Charlie's house at the beginning? Is that a famous painting?


The opening scene of the show was a painting of John the Baptist baptizing Jesus.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jschuman said:


> Moses wasn't a 'poor' public speaker. He had a speech impediment:
> http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article.asp?AID=351039


Yes.

But that would make him lousy at public speaking, right?


----------



## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> Yes.
> 
> But that would make him lousy at public speaking, right?


Yep


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jwjody said:


> I don't think Locke has gone to the darkside regarding the heroine. Someone other than him has to have the combination to the gun locker and that's where he stuck the Mary's.


I'm leaning away from the explanation that Locke is _using_, but there's something afoul afoot about him keeping the heroin rather than destroying it.

Speaking of the gun locker:



Spoiler



In the previews for the next (few?) episode(s), we learn that Locke removes the guns from the gun locker, hides them somewhere else, and that Jack is plenty angry about that!!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> Locke's _keeping_ the statues/heroin combined with his rather over the top behavior in this episode (beating the crap out of Charlie on the beach was out of character, even for Locke, and completely unnecessary) make me wonder if Locke is in fact using. (As others previously mentioned.)


I'm thinking the way Locke punched Charlie was very "Ethan-ish". Haven't really seen anybody else mention that.

I also think everybody trying to figure out why Locke kept the heroine are perhaps putting to much into it. He probably has a simple excuse (medicinal, or whatever) and that little scene of him putting the statues in storage was merely the writers telling us that the heroin is still not gone for good.


----------



## stevemcl (Nov 23, 2005)

Did Locke punch Charlie in the face 4, or 5 times?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

stevemcl said:


> Did Locke punch Charlie in the face 4, or 5 times?


Great catch!!!

Indeed he did!!

More evidence that the writers get ideas from TCF!


----------



## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> I noticed it too - assumed it was meant to be the shadow of the dove as it emerged from the "painting".


I just reviewed that scene -- the "black dove" is definitely a shadow of the white dove. While it could be a reference to the various black and white allegories shown in the past, my interpretation is that the shadow was to reinforce the "background as painting".

I note also that the white dove came from above immediately after the flash of light and boom. Which appeared timed to appropriately be the crash of the airplane, but the airplane crashed on the ground and the flash came from above. Probably just a "Heaven" reference.

The airplane appears to be the same type of craft as that found in the jungle with the heroin.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I think I need to re-watch the Hurley episode on DVD to verify Libby's story about Hurley stepping on her foot. She did remember how sweaty he was, but that would have been easy since he was the last to board and hard to have missed. I wouldn't be surprised if he pointed out the thing about her being seated behind him - he specifically referred to her as a "tailie."

And I do think that if he does recognize her, it's from the mental place, but I don't think she necessarily has ulterior motives just because she's avoiding the subject - which I think trying on that thing was an attempt to do, at least partially, she could like him and was being flirtatious too. And have they ever established the timeline of whether he was in the mental ward before or after he won the money? And would she have necessarily known about his wealth anyway - he certainly didn't flaunt it. Also, in the 2nd Hurley flashback where he won the money, that girl, who was pretty attractive IIRC, was definitely into him before he had won the money.

I couldn't believe Charlie lied to Locke after being caught in the earlier lie. The statues were all intact, so claiming he wasn't using was entirely plausible.

Trying to figure out if there's a biblical Moses-Aaron connection that makes sense with the baby floating in the water in the cradle. Moses was put in a basket and sent down a river by his Jewish parents who feared for his life. He was rescued from the river by an Egyptian Princess and raised as an Egyptian. Of course, that was Moses, not Aaron, but I don't think it's a coincidence, and I think it would have been unlikely for Claire to have named the baby "Moses" so maybe they just picked Aaron since he was Moses's brother, and the baby's story is supposed to parallel Moses's life in some way.

I was just saying to my wife at the beginning of the episode, that this show would have to be on for a long time for us to learn what's to come of the whole thing with the psychic who told Claire that she must raise the baby. I mean, halfway through the 2nd season the baby's only about a month old. But maybe we got a hint of that in this episode.

Jabba - definitely the best Sawyer nickname to date, and there have been some great ones.

I didn't think anything dark about Locke, he was just concerned/upset about Charlie, and probably to some extent worried about his premonitions. Probably just kept the statues for medicinal purposes too - don't know if there's a legitimate use for heroin, but keeping them "just in case" is perfectly reasonable.


----------



## bigrig (Jul 1, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Ditto. THis was by war the most boring, uninteresting episode so far. It was all I could do to watch it through the end. If I were on the island, I'd tie Clair, Charlie, Locke and the baby together and set them adrift. No redeeming value whatsoever.


Double ditto!
[Comic book guy]Worst...episode...ever![/Comic book guy]

Matt


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> And have they ever established the timeline of whether he was in the mental ward before or after he won the money?


Absolutely.

Beyond any shadow of a doubt.

He was committed to the mental hospital *BEFORE* he won the money.

It was in the mental hospital where he met a guy who continuously recited the numbers over and over. This is where Hurley first heard the "numbers", and what inspired him to play them on the lottery, *after* he got out of the hospital.

This was crystal clear. 

BTW, that *very* episode, from last season, is next Wednesday's repeat!


----------



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

For those who said that Libby is an 'other' and wasn't on the plane....she referenced the fact that Hurley ran on later than everyone else and was wearing his headphones. Obviously she had to be there....


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

mojomom said:


> I am so impressed you came up with the actual painting! Does anyone have any more info on it, title, artist, further links?


More info about the painting 
I didn't see anything else about the painting that would help in the interpretation in this context.



jwjody said:


> I thought it looked like Mary mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene but then Charlie said they were angels and that made me think of The Annunciation. There were TONS of paintings of that so I'm not sure which one it could be.


I first thought the women were Mary mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as well. But when I pulled up the original painting this morning, they appeared to just be angels. Interesting that a young Leonardo DaVinci painted one of them.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> For those who said that Libby is an 'other' and wasn't on the plane....she referenced the fact that Hurley ran on later than everyone else and was wearing his headphones. Obviously she had to be there....


Not if Dharma also had security cameras monitoring the O-A plane, much like they do the hatch [speculation]. It's been widely speculated that the airline has ties to the project (the O-A medallion on DeGroot's bookshelf), so we don't know at what point the Others made first contact, in person or otherwise, with our Lostaways.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> I was thinking B, she knows from the ward that he is filthy rich and is hoping to cash in when they get off the island


Be the first to sell the rights to a movie and the bling will roll in.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Beyond any shadow of a doubt.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, duh. So the speculation that she's interested in him because she knows he's rich - at least the part that she knew from the mental hospital - is highly unlikely. Besides, she'd have to be pretty hopeful that they're getting home some time soon for that to matter.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

BeanMeScot said:


> More info about the painting
> I didn't see anything else about the painting that would help in the interpretation in this context.
> 
> I first thought the women were Mary mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as well. But when I pulled up the original painting this morning, they appeared to just be angels. Interesting that a young Leonardo DaVinci painted one of them.


Hmmm... who painted the other one, Milo Rambaldi?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Paperboy2003 said:


> For those who said that Libby is an 'other' and wasn't on the plane....she referenced the fact that Hurley ran on later than everyone else and was wearing his headphones. Obviously she had to be there....


Or if during the first 40 days on the island someone in Camp Tailie said something like:

"Maybe we wouldn't have crashed if they hadn't held the plane for that fat guy that came running on all sweaty and distracted at the last second."


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Hmmm... who painted the other one, Milo Rambaldi?


  
Good Guess!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Paperboy2003 said:


> For those who said that Libby is an 'other' and wasn't on the plane....she referenced the fact that Hurley ran on later than everyone else and was wearing his headphones. Obviously she had to be there....


Well, just because she was on the plane doesn't mean she's not an Other. All the Others were newbies at one point. It's conceivable that she's just ahead of the assimilation curve...


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

chavez said:


> locke wears the same color (drab khaki) that those barefoot 'others' wear too.
> 
> the podcast mentioned an easter egg on one of the signs/billboards during the flashback. anyone catch it?


The only one that stood out for me was the one for I think the train station or something. The sign said something like Braxton(don't remember exactly) Underground. I have no idea what that refers to, but it sounded familiar for some reason.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Oh yeah, duh. So the speculation that she's interested in him because she knows he's rich - at least the part that she knew from the mental hospital - is highly unlikely. Besides, she'd have to be pretty hopeful that they're getting home some time soon for that to matter.


I think she originally met him at the hospital. Probably as a clinician, but it's not impossible that she was a patient. If she was a patient, she could also have been a clinical psychologist by trade as well. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

However, it's not impossible, by any means, that she met him at the clinic and _also knew he was rich._

He supposedly won the largest jackpot in the history of the lottery he entered. It made _international_ news it was so huge! (We see news coverage of it in _Korea_ in a Sun/Jin flashback!)

So, it's not impossible that Libby saw the news coverage of him winning the lottery. If she knew him already from the mental hospital, it would have stuck that much more strongly in her memory. (HEY! I *KNOW* that guy!!)

Basically I'm saying that _all the speculation_ about where Libby knows Hurley from, and what she knows about him, and whether she was an employee or patient of the hospital are all still in play.

What's *NOT* in play, IMHO, is the notion that Libby was not on the plane.

As Paperboy2003 points out above, she remembered Hurley being the last to board and being all sweaty. It's unlikely she picked up these details from someone else. She knows these details because she observed them: _on the plane._


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Cboath said:


> The only one that stood out for me was the one for I think the train station or something. The sign said something like Braxton(don't remember exactly) Underground. I have no idea what that refers to, but it sounded familiar for some reason.


Brixton.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

During the painting scene, in high definition, on the top left of the screen you can see a plane come down. I'm not sure if you could see that on an SDTV. I did not go back and pause but I think it was Eko's plane.


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## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> During the painting scene, in high definition, on the top left of the screen you can see a plane come down. I'm not sure if you could see that on an SDTV. I did not go back and pause but I think it was Eko's plane.


I read on another forum that during the scene where Charlie is dreaming and you see his mom and Claire with Aaron, on the top left corner of the sky you can see the drug plane - only in HD. I love having HD for this show!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Somebody posted several posts ago that after rewatching the scene, they also think it looked like Eko's plane. Myself (watching in SD btw), missed the plane but did hear a plane engine.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Locke's _keeping_ the statues/heroin combined with his rather over the top behavior in this episode (beating the crap out of Charlie on the beach was out of character, even for Locke, and completely unnecessary) make me wonder if Locke is in fact using. (As others previously mentioned.) _That_ would be a bizarre twist!!


The writers drew our attention to the term "transference" in an earlier episode when Jack took Sawyer's place chopping wood. Perhaps the "sins" or psychopathies or weaknesses are literally transferred from one person to another via the mysterious workings of the island. This would fit with the allusions to the cleansing of sin via baptism and could plausibly foreshadow a Christ-like martyrdom for those who take on the sin of the others as Christ took on the sins of the world.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

robinreale said:


> I read on another forum that during the scene where Charlie is dreaming and you see his mom and Claire with Aaron, on the top left corner of the sky you can see the drug plane - only in HD. I love having HD for this show!


I know everyone's getting tired of it but:

In _just one more "Lost" thread_ I'm going to whine about the New Orleans ABC affiliate's DT transmitter being temporarily off the air (for the duration of this season probably).


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I doubt if Libby knows Hurley is rich. It would be human nature for her to either ask him if he were the lottery winning guy she saw on tv or she would have asked one of the Lostaways who have known him for two months if he were that guy.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> What's *NOT* in play, IMHO, is the notion that Libby was not on the plane.
> 
> As Paperboy2003 points out above, she remembered Hurley being the last to board and being all sweaty. It's unlikely she picked up these details from someone else. She knows these details because she observed them: _on the plane._


I thought we saw Libby coming out of the water with Ana Lucia and Eko?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> I know everyone's getting tired of it but:
> 
> In _just one more "Lost" thread_ I'm going to whine about the New Orleans ABC affiliate's DT transmitter being temporarily off the air (for the duration of this season probably).


I feel for you there, as someone who lived through prolonged indecisiveness and ineptitude in the wake of losing almost all digital broadcast facilities in NYC on 9/11.

They were the networks flagship stations, and even then they took years to sort out what to do, even with the viewership/market intact.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> I think she originally met him at the hospital. Probably as a clinician, but it's not impossible that she was a patient. If she was a patient, she could also have been a clinical psychologist by trade as well. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive.
> 
> However, it's not impossible, by any means, that she met him at the clinic and _also knew he was rich._
> 
> ...


Good points, then here's my speculation:
They get the love connection going. Hurley remembers her from the hospital (or she tells him). He finds out she knows about his money and thinks she's a gold digger. Turns out she's not, but she gets mad at him for thinking so, and the audience is spared from the Hurley-Libby love scene on the beach.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I thought we saw Libby coming out of the water with Ana Lucia and Eko?


I was thinking about that recently when I was wondering if Eko might have been an "other." Then I saw him coming out of the water in the recent recap episode. But then I realized that doesn't mean he was necessarily _on the plane_, a la Goodwin.

But, in Libby's case, I seem to remember seeing both her and Cindy (the stewardess) on the plane in one of the flashbacks earlier this season. Am I remembering correctly?


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

And in an earlier Hurley episode we saw that Hurley wanted to make his move on a girl he was crushing on before she found out that he had money so he'd know if her feelings for him were real. We haven't seen the rest of that story yet.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I feel for you there, as someone who lived through prolonged indecisiveness and ineptitude in the wake of losing almost all digital broadcast facilities in NYC on 9/11.
> 
> They were the networks flagship stations, and even then they took years to sort out what to do, even with the viewership/market intact.


<Major Thread Hijack>
There was an article about the New Orleans television station situation in a recent article in the Times-Picayune (New Orleans local newspaper).

It made a couple of interesting points:


The reduction in total DMA size in number of TV households is actually very slight, about 2% by most estimates at this time. The reason is, that people who lost their homes relocated, but relocated fairly close, still within the New Orleans DMA. I fall into this category. I moved from Orleans Parish (where my house took on 13 feet of water) to Western St. Tammany parish. The population of Western St. Tammany Parish (Mandeville, Covington, Abita Springs) has roughly *doubled* post Katrina! (From about 90,000 to 180,000.) The population of other outlying parts of the Greater New Orleans area have increased similarly, while central New Orleans has dramatically dropped in population. Result, to the TV DMA, it's roughly a wash.
Sales of major appliances and electronics (Washers, Dryers, Refrigerators, *TV sets*) post Katrina is through the roof. More than usual by something like 1000%. (Obvious reason, everybody is replacing what they lost, via. insurance money). Retailers report that sales of HD capable sets are outstripping sales on non-HD capable sets something like 20 to 1!!  So, as a _direct result of Katrina_ this DMA is becoming one of the highest percentage "HD capable" in the country!  The article speculated that this should provide sufficient incentive for the affiliates to get their DT transmitters fixed quick! (I hope so!)
</End major thread hijack>

Back to "Lost" discussion...


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> And in an earlier Hurley episode we saw that Hurley wanted to make his move on a girl he was crushing on before she found out that he had money so he'd know if her feelings for him were real. We haven't seen the rest of that story yet.


Yeah, but we do know that she was into him. So it can't be ruled out that Libby is, too. Of course, it wasn't impossible in the first place, but it's less improbable than it otherwise might be. It doesn't have to be a "desert island" situation like he said 1 or 2 episodes ago.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I don't think we knew that she was "into him", just that she liked him. Hurley wanted to find out in what way she "liked" him before he told her about the money.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I don't think we knew that she was "into him", just that she liked him. Hurley wanted to find out in what way she "liked" him before he told her about the money.


I was equating "into" and "liked." As in she wanted to date him, I think that was obvious. I think even Hurley, despite probably being a little low on self-confidence, realized that the "way" she liked him was the same way he liked her, but given they hadn't even been on a date yet, wanted to get a relationship established - if there were to be one - before telling her about the money.

That's how I remember it anyway, but it's been a while.


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

What was with Eko marking the trees?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Those were the ones he liked.


----------



## stevecon (Apr 29, 2005)

AstroDad said:


> That wasn't next week, that was "coming up". Next new episode is 02/08


Arrgghh! I hate when they do that.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

bigrig said:


> Double ditto!
> [Comic book guy]Worst...episode...ever![/Comic book guy]
> 
> Matt


haha great... [Comic book guy]That was the worst star wars ever...I am only going to see it 12 more times.....today[/Comic book guy] love that big guy

for those saying libby MUST have been on the plane because she knew details about it that you wouldnt know unless you WERE on it...dont forget that the others have already taken people from the plane that could have given every detail that they remembered...and yea a big sweaty guy that made the plane late would be somthing for anyone on it to remember, especially the flight attendant...


----------



## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

One thing that really freaked me out was Charlie's butcher dad chopping off the doll's head...very disturbing!

I went back and watched the sequence in slow mo to make sure I saw it right...and just before the chopping happens, right after Charlie yells "Dad!" there's a split second of a different scene...without the HD it was hard to make out, but it looks like a different doll, with darker hair....maybe intended to look like young Charlie...not certain but my impression was it's a doll's head in a butcher's meat case...yikes!!

This is reminiscent of The Exorcist...where they supposedly spliced in quick flashes of other images to subliminally up the terror quotient. Maybe this is why the scene was that disturbing? I wonder if there are any other subliminal elements going on?


----------



## rcobourn (Nov 10, 2004)

Did anyone else notice during a scene with Locke and Charlie in the jungle where Locke's mouth is moving but there is no audio? I think it was right before he told Charlie he'd lost the right to be trusted, but maybe it was earlier. It wasn't an audio sync problem because the following line was synced just fine. I'm wondering if it might have been local sensoring of language in the Phoenix market, but there was nothing in the captions there either.


----------



## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

Jeeters said:


> Somebody posted several posts ago that after rewatching the scene, they also think it looked like Eko's plane. Myself (watching in SD btw), missed the plane but did hear a plane engine.


It is possible that it is Eko's plane. I thought that it was Kate's toy plane in real-life size. Perhaps the two are the same type and I'm not realizing that, though.

Definitely good to have HD. I rewound it to watch it go by. Only a small number of frames available. I've already deleted the episode because I thought for sure SOMEONE would have a picture on here by now.


----------



## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

rcobourn said:


> Did anyone else notice during a scene with Locke and Charlie in the jungle where Locke's mouth is moving but there is no audio? I think it was right before he told Charlie he'd lost the right to be trusted, but maybe it was earlier. It wasn't an audio sync problem because the following line was synced just fine. I'm wondering if it might have been local sensoring of language in the Phoenix market, but there was nothing in the captions there either.


I noticed this as well, so it wasn't just Phoenix. Could be either (1) a clue .. What did he say? or (2) a mistake that the producers tried to cover up. With the car-on-the-hill foul up earlier this year, I'd say it is very likely a production mistake that was covered up by removing the sound.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I was thinking about that recently when I was wondering if Eko might have been an "other." Then I saw him coming out of the water in the recent recap episode. But then I realized that doesn't mean he was necessarily _on the plane_, a la Goodwin.


Yeah but in Goodwin's case, he was never in the water. 
(One of discrepancies Ana Lucia spotted) 
He came running out of the jungle after Bernard spotted him and that's when he began the deception.

Libby would have had to have made it out of the jungle and swum out to the Tailies in order to join up with them. 
I think that someone might have noticed that.

Oh and I think that Locke is simply being protective (or perhaps over protective) of Aaron and Claire.
That's why he was so angry with Charlie and why he hit him.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Libby- _"I ain't sayin' she's a gold digger..."_

Aaron- Baptized in front of the (formerly) Burning Bush(es)?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Yeah but in Goodwin's case, he was never in the water.
> (One of discrepancies Ana Lucia spotted)
> He came running out of the jungle after Bernard spotted him and that's when he began the deception.
> 
> ...


Well, maybe someone would have noticed, but a plane crash is certainly among life's more hectic situations. I think it's highly likely they were on the plane though, especially Libby.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

5thcrewman said:


> Libby- _"I ain't sayin' she's a gold digger..."_
> 
> Aaron- Baptized in front of the (formerly) Burning Bush(es)?


The Burning Bush, nice! Bolsters my baby in the basket in the water theory... now if I could just figure out what that theory is exactly...


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3472487&&#post3472487


NoThru22 said:


> The terms "tailies" and "fusies" drive me nuts. They are so stupid and if anyone uses one of those phrase on the show, I will throw a bottle at Damon Lindelof.


OK, now you may throw that bottle.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3472487&&#post3472487
> 
> OK, now you may throw that bottle.


   :up:

There was no doubt whatsoever in my mind that it was coming though. (And, of course, it would be Hurley who'd be the first.)

Damon Lindelof himself has been using those words in interviews since the beginning of this season. (I'm not sure he's not the one who coined them.)


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Damon Lindelof himself has been using those words in interviews since the beginning of this season. (I'm not sure he's not the one who coined them.)


He had said in an early podcast that it's how they referred to them behind the scenes.

Mr. Friendly is also an "unofficial" inside name...


----------



## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

rcobourn said:


> Did anyone else notice during a scene with Locke and Charlie in the jungle where Locke's mouth is moving but there is no audio? I think it was right before he told Charlie he'd lost the right to be trusted, but maybe it was earlier. It wasn't an audio sync problem because the following line was synced just fine. I'm wondering if it might have been local sensoring of language in the Phoenix market, but there was nothing in the captions there either.


I am in Chandler and noticed the same thing. I thought maybe it was a dropout but didn't have any of the other things usually associated with a drop out (like picture freezing or pixelation).

Did you have any breakup during that scene before that point in time?

I had a lot of breakup through out that scene and I am trying to figure out if it was my reception or a broadcast problem.

And yeah - both my wife and I really didn't think this episode was necessary. It felt like filler and could easily be one that was skipped. But if I remember the first season correctly, there were a few like that as well. I guess I just don't really care for Charlie's backstory and don't see why I should! 

Bryan


----------



## rcobourn (Nov 10, 2004)

bacevedo said:


> I am in Chandler and noticed the same thing. I thought maybe it was a dropout but didn't have any of the other things usually associated with a drop out (like picture freezing or pixelation).
> 
> Did you have any breakup during that scene before that point in time?
> 
> ...


No problems with the signal here, picture perfect. It's bothersome though, if it was a mistake they were trying to fix up in editing, the could have just cut to Locke a bit later. I think I'm going to grab the episode off usenet and see if it's the same there.


----------



## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> In the previews for the next (few?) episode(s), we learn that Locke removes the guns from the gun locker, hides them somewhere else, and that Jack is plenty angry about that!!





Spoiler



That could be lock disagreeing with Jack's army so he hides the guns to keep them away from Jack.



J


----------



## Deekeryu (Sep 20, 2005)

I didn't really like this episode. No interesting hints or revelations that made me jump.


----------



## loubol (Apr 16, 2003)

What plane crash?

!!!!Warning Lost Theory Link!!!!!


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

nataylor said:


> What was with Eko marking the trees?


He said they were the ones he "liked". I think he was picking out trees to chop down for building something (or some things). And the ones he marked are the ones he thought were good (and thus 'liked') for his intended purpose.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> He said they were the he "liked". I think he was picking out trees to chop down for building something (or some things). And the ones he marked are the ones he thought were good (and thus 'liked') for his intended purpose.


So he marked them with the sign of the Cross.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Maybe he wanted to build a church.


----------



## BrandonSi (Jun 5, 2003)

rcobourn said:


> Did anyone else notice during a scene with Locke and Charlie in the jungle where Locke's mouth is moving but there is no audio? I think it was right before he told Charlie he'd lost the right to be trusted, but maybe it was earlier. It wasn't an audio sync problem because the following line was synced just fine. I'm wondering if it might have been local sensoring of language in the Phoenix market, but there was nothing in the captions there either.


Yes! I know exactly what you're saying.. I didn't think anything of it until now..


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

5thcrewman said:


> So he marked them with the sign of the Cross.


I didnt see crosses. I saw X's. Would have to go back and rewatch.


----------



## Deekeryu (Sep 20, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> I didnt see crosses. I saw X's. Would have to go back and rewatch.


They were definitely X's.

X marks the spot.


----------



## Blackssr (Mar 4, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Ditto. This was by far the most boring, uninteresting episode so far. It was all I could do to watch it through to the end. If I were on the island, I'd tie Clair, Charlie, Locke and the baby together and set them adrift. No redeeming value whatsoever.


Why get rid of Claire?- Ditch the ugly baby and keep her- She is hot!


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Blackssr said:


> Why get rid of Claire?- Ditch the ugly baby and keep her- She is hot!


She's slap-happy.


----------



## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

rcobourn said:


> Did anyone else notice during a scene with Locke and Charlie in the jungle where Locke's mouth is moving but there is no audio? I think it was right before he told Charlie he'd lost the right to be trusted, but maybe it was earlier.


 I just rewatched the entire scene twice in HD, and don't notice any instance of Locke appearing to speak but with no associated audio. As you speculated, it might have happened earlier though.

Here's a still shot of the prop plane that is crashing -- much more recognizable if you see it in motion, but you can clearly see the "double tail" in this shot.

Correction: as pointed out in a later post, this is the same style of plane as used by the drug runners. 
.









And here's a brief QuickTime H264 video clip (1.7MB)
or the same clip in Divx format (5MB)


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> I didnt see crosses. I saw X's. Would have to go back and rewatch.


Mr. Peabody: Sherman, I'm surprised- Haven't you heard of cross-multiplication?


----------



## FauxPas (Jan 8, 2002)

Ladd Morse said:


> you can clearly see the "double tail" in this shot. So this is NOT the plane that contained the heroin and where Boone was killed.


Why do you say that? I believe the drug plane had a tail like that.

Also, I noticed Sawyer actually had 3 nicknames for Hurley in this episode. The third was Hoss, I'm guessing in reference to Hoss Cartwright.


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Ladd Morse said:


> ...
> And here's a brief QuickTime video clip


Man I have GOT to get HD! Thanks for the link.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

FauxPas said:


> Why do you say that? I believe the drug plane had a tail like that.
> .


Indeed.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I could have sworn that Sawyer called Hurley "Jabba" sometime in the first season. Scriptmaster hefe?


----------



## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

loubol said:


> What plane crash?
> 
> !!!!Warning Lost Theory Link!!!!!


I read that the other day. It doesn't explain some things like the Others. Otherwise a very well thought out theory.

J


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Are we for certain that the fire that Charlie started burned down Eko's trees?

I thought maybe he was planning on clearing them for a church.


----------



## loubol (Apr 16, 2003)

jwjody said:


> I read that the other day. It doesn't explain some things like the Others. Otherwise a very well thought out theory.
> 
> J


Yeah I thinlk the mind control thing is a stretch also.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

For reference, in case people wonder about Kate's plane...


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I could have sworn that Sawyer called Hurley "Jabba" sometime in the first season. Scriptmaster hefe?


Does not appear in a search...sorry.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jwjody said:


> I read that the other day. It doesn't explain some things like the Others. Otherwise a very well thought out theory.
> 
> J


How does it not describe the Others? Following that theory, the Others are simply those who were brought there first. The theory says nothing about the Flight 815 survivors being the first/only people brought to the island.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

hefe said:


> Does not appear in a search...sorry.


Thanks for checking. I know we have heard Han, Chewie, Leia but I thought we'd already heard Jabba too. Just my selective memory, I guess.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> Thanks for checking. I know we have heard Han, Chewie, Leia but I thought we'd already heard Jabba too. Just my selective memory, I guess.


I don't recall Han or Leia, but he did call Jin Chewie, at least twice, for some reason.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hefe said:


> I don't recall Han or Leia, but he did call Jin Chewie, at least twice, for some reason.


Probably because Jin doesn't speak English.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

There was a scene in season one that I'm sure I'm remembering correctly.

Jin and Michael were building the raft, Jin says something in Korean and Michael responds, "No, this goes here, that goes there" (an exact Han Solo quote, talking to chewie). Jin responds with something else in Korean.

Just after this exchange, Sawyer calls Michael and Jin, "Han and Chewie." He calls Jin "Chewie" several times after that (mostly when they were on the raft togather).

My favorite Sawyer nickname for Hurley to date has to be "Sta-Puft". Funnier than "Jabba", IMHO.


----------



## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

Great, an all charlie episode, he's at the top of my death list right now.

Sharon (gone, woot)
Boone (gone, woot)
Charlie (druggie guy, never liked him from day one)
Claires Baby (I don't like babies/kids in sci-fi)
Walt (I don't like babies/kids in sci-fi)
Claire (totally helpless, second only to sharon)
Michael (too hard headed)


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> There was a scene in season one that I'm sure I'm remembering correctly.
> 
> Jin and Michael were building the raft, Jin says something in Korean and Michael responds, "No, this goes here, that goes there" (an exact Han Solo quote, talking to chewie). Jin responds with something else in Korean.
> 
> ...


Hmmm transcript doesn't follow exactly...



Exodus Part 1 said:


> [Michael and Jin at the raft.]
> 
> Michael: No, no, no. This one goes there. That one goes there.
> Jin: Okay, okay.
> ...


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> Hmmm transcript doesn't follow exactly...


Hmmm....

Close, though.

Michael's line is _clearly_ a Star Wars reference.

Your searches don't turn up _any_ instance of Sawyer calling Michael, "Han"?

If not, maybe my brain extrapolated from the "This one goes there, that one goes there" exchange.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> Close, though.
> 
> ...


Couldn't find Han or Leia.


----------



## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

Woh...

I just got this from somewhere:
------------
The producer posted this on one of the official sites...

BTW,

Anyone with HDTV got a special surprise in
Charlie's second dream tonight... right when
the dove appears.

Hope some of you caught it -- 'cause it's
IMPORTANT.

Big Hugs,

Damon
------------

Obviously, he has to mean the plane crashing.

However, you'll notice the explosion of the plane crashing as like a bright yellow exploding circle.

Well, when i watched it again, it almost looks like the DOVE comes OUT of that exact spot of the explosion's origin.

Basically...the dove...comes from the plane.

The statues? The drugs? I dunno, but it's interesting.

Mike


----------



## boneill (Feb 7, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> This is astounding since in most other respects the Catholic Church doesn't even give protestants the respect of considering them to be _Christians._


Little late and off-topic, but that's not true.

I see an everybody-likes-Charlie-again episode coming sometime soon.

Locke was subtly disturbing this episode.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Exodus Part III


> SAWYER: Hey, Han, you and Chewie want to slow down a second and talk to me
> here? We have to fire the flare.


Abandoned



> SAWYER: Yeah, yeah, Chewie, I know. My arm's about to fall off.


...And Found



> SAWYER: What are we supposed to do, wait for him? He ain't coming back without his kid. Walt - he ain't coming back without Walt. You really think he's going to find him? In case you haven't noticed it's every man for himself, Chewie. Mike's got to worry about Mike. And I've got to worry about me.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Exodus Part III


A ha. In my copy, there were too many h-a-ns to search for, and I didn't search for a string with a comma in it. And, they spelled Chewie C-h-e-w-y so that didn't come up.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Has hefe lost his title as scriptmaster?


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

For a moment there I was sure there was some surpise I hadn't heard about and they were going to kill off claire and the baby. 

What I'm really more interested in is, what is the significance of Charlies flashbacks this episode? I mean, usually they show some direct explanation/justification for the actions that character takes in that episode. I didn't see the connection this time.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> Has hefe lost his title as scriptmaster?


I got a bad transcriber...


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Chandler Mike said:


> However, you'll notice the explosion of the plane crashing as like a bright yellow exploding circle.
> 
> Well, when i watched it again, it almost looks like the DOVE comes OUT of that exact spot of the explosion's origin.
> 
> Basically...the dove...comes from the plane.


Don't understand this - the plane crashed behind the trees near the bottom of the picture and presumably exploded, while the dove emerged from a flash near the top of the picture. It was at the same time as the explosion of the plane, but I don't see how the dove could be said to emerge from the origin of the explosion.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> For a moment there I was sure there was some surpise I hadn't heard about and they were going to kill off claire and the baby.
> 
> What I'm really more interested in is, what is the significance of Charlies flashbacks this episode? I mean, usually they show some direct explanation/justification for the actions that character takes in that episode. I didn't see the connection this time.


It shows that Charlie has, in one form or another, been the one to take care of his family, especially his brother Liam.
He's been kind of rudderless without that and that's part of the reason why he's glommed on to Claire and Aaron.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> SAWYER: Hey, Han, you and Chewie want to slow down a second and talk to me
> here? We have to fire the flare.


Ding!

Oh, yes!

I _knew_ I didn't imagine it! :up:


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

I'll read this thread later. It grows so f'ing fast! Just wanted to chime in that I loved Ms Orbitz with her "brilliant" line!


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

hefe said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3472487&&#post3472487
> 
> OK, now you may throw that bottle.


LOL, I thought of that right away.

I liked this episode, BTW. Not one of my favorites, but I wasn't bored at all, I was soaking up every minute of it.


----------



## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

I SWEAR I saw a photo of the beach scene and the plane could be seen flying down... I can't find it anywhere, and now I'm dumbfounded...


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Ladd Morse said:


> Here's a still shot of the prop plane that is crashing -- much more recognizable if you see it in motion, but you can clearly see the "double tail" in this shot. [/URL]


Thanks for the clip. I remember hearing the sound but I don't recall seeing the plane... I wonder if all of us 4:3 viewers lost out on it. I dunno why ABC doesn't air this show in 16:9 because it's clearly made to be watched that way.


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

We are vastly loosing interest in LOST and may of our friends are too.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bdlucas said:


> Don't understand this - the plane crashed behind the trees near the bottom of the picture and presumably exploded, while the dove emerged from a flash near the top of the picture. It was at the same time as the explosion of the plane, but I don't see how the dove could be said to emerge from the origin of the explosion.


It didn't, it came from just off the top of the frame, from the sky. Like the story of John the Baptist that Eko told.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Cboath said:


> The only one that stood out for me was the one for I think the train station or something. The sign said something like Braxton(don't remember exactly) Underground. I have no idea what that refers to, but it sounded familiar for some reason.


The podcast said to look for a sign in London...the only one I saw was the same thing...


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Fish Man, I see what you're missing now. We only just got a HD set last Saturday, and yowza. Unfortunately, the DirecTivo is just a regular one so watching again on it was kind of painful. I feel for ya.

(And I missed the plane in the painting during the replays. Thanks for whoever posted the video of it.)

I was reminded of 2 things while Charlie was gloom-and-doom staring with his hood up at the end: first, ironically how it looked like one of the Black Riders from LOTR I and second, how it sort of had a Sith look to it. We know they have a Star Wars jones.

So the arrival of the drug plane heralds salvation? Redemption? Cleansing? Okey-dokey.

Sigh. Everyone's right though. This episode, in the words of _Seinfeld_, was not sweeps-worthy and thus banished to January.


----------



## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

hefe said:


> The podcast said to look for a sign in London...the only one I saw was the same thing...


There was always the "Driving through America Tour" poster Charlies Flat. That one sticks out, but there may have been others. Unfortunately, I deleted the episode and cannot double-check.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

brott said:


> There was always the "Driving through America Tour" poster Charlies Flat. That one sticks out, but there may have been others. Unfortunately, I deleted the episode and cannot double-check.


The description in the podcast doesn't make sense though. Lindelof says that in a London flashback, you will see the London skyline, and there is an iconic building that music fans may recognize. There's some signage on that building that might pay off later for those who are Easter Egg hunters.

The only thing I could think of that was even an exterior scene is where they are walking outside to the Brixton station. Now, just before they reach the point in my screen shot above, they walk by a wall that has paper signs and fliers on it...one of them says "Lost Cat." Could that be it? Seems a little lame.


----------



## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

Charon2 said:


> For me the episode wasn't great, but not bad either. A poor episode of Lost is still better then most television.


I agree. The most pressing question I had after watching this was - How is it that Claire is wearing so much make-up? Was that mascara? Not sure if she has always worn that much make-up and I just hadn't noticed (maybe due to being focused on the story line or something), or maybe she knew she was going to have a lot of close-ups in this ep and was worried about what HD would reveal.

I know there has been a lot of posts about the lack of Hurley's weight loss, and the mens beards or lack thereof (and somehow all of the ladies seem to be shaving as well), but this is the true mystery (and, yeah, I'm sure there's been posts about make-up as well....)


----------



## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

hefe said:


> The description in the podcast doesn't make sense though. Lindelof says that in a London flashback, you will see the London skyline, and there is an iconic building that music fans may recognize. There's some signage on that building that might pay off later for those who are Easter Egg hunters.


Apparently this is the easter egg, from a Pink Floyd cover, however no one has been able to pull any signage out of it.

http://community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1181894.html

Additionally, they shoot exclusively in HI, right? They didn't fly to London just to shoot those bits, so the building must be CGIed in there... so is it different? Is it older than it should be? Un-redone the way it should be to be current? Was it torn down in some past year?

EDIT: Apparently, its currently in the process of urban renewal...


----------



## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

Scubee said:


> Man I have GOT to get HD! Thanks for the link.


You definitely need to. It is amazing what you miss in this show if you do not watch it in HD.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mike_k said:


> I agree. The most pressing question I had after watching this was - How is it that Claire is wearing so much make-up? Was that mascara? Not sure if she has always worn that much make-up and I just hadn't noticed (maybe due to being focused on the story line or something), or maybe she knew she was going to have a lot of close-ups in this ep and was worried about what HD would reveal.
> 
> I know there has been a lot of posts about the lack of Hurley's weight loss, and the mens beards or lack thereof (and somehow all of the ladies seem to be shaving as well), but this is the true mystery (and, yeah, I'm sure there's been posts about make-up as well....)


Well, it has only been just over 50 days and they had a lot of luggage, including toiletries, etc., from the non-survivors. So it's plausible that they'd have a decent supply of this stuff. Is it realistic to expect that they'd look like they do? I dunno, but they would have some makeup, etc.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Vito the TiVo said:


> Apparently this is the easter egg, from a Pink Floyd cover, however no one has been able to pull any signage out of it.
> 
> http://community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1181894.html
> 
> ...


Boy, I'm gonna have to re-watch.

I wouldn't think I would have missed that, even in SD.

That is a piece of the London skyline with significant Rock 'n' Roll history attached, but I never noticed it.

That picture is not faked?

Like I said, I'm gonna have to re-watch!


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

boneill said:


> Little late and off-topic, but that's not true.


You aren't sitting in the same masses and listening to the same homilys I am, apparently.

But... Off topic.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Vito the TiVo said:


> Apparently this is the easter egg, from a Pink Floyd cover, however no one has been able to pull any signage out of it.
> 
> http://community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1181894.html
> 
> ...


I never would have recognized that. I saw it, but didn't think anything of it.


----------



## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> That is a piece of the London skyline with significant Rock 'n' Roll history attached, but I never noticed it.
> 
> That picture is not faked?
> 
> Like I said, I'm gonna have to re-watch!


Its in the shot of Charlie running to the parking lot when the commercial shoot is interrupted. Apparently the building does not have any signage on it, so for it to have signs on it in this shoot definitely means something ... we'll probably see a closer shot in someone else's flashback soon and be able to tell what the signs say.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I am amazed that the thread has come this far without mention of Liam. He is such an exciting character who adds so much to the show. 

Seriously though, after seeing his behavior in this episode, it is hard to believe that Charlie would have even wanted to get the band back together.



Fish Man said:


> I know everyone's getting tired of it but:
> 
> In _just one more "Lost" thread_ I'm going to whine about the New Orleans ABC affiliate's DT transmitter being temporarily off the air (for the duration of this season probably).


Careful - JustAPixel might get annoyed. 



mojomom said:


> Eko's character sure is one complicated guy. I've never seen another actor who can look both as menacing and as absolutely tender as Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje. He is awesome. Knowing he was a cold-blooded killer gave me shudders but he truly seems redeemed as a holy man now.


You should check out his work on Oz.


----------



## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> You aren't sitting in the same masses and listening to the same homilys I am, apparently.
> 
> But... Off topic.


catech 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324


----------



## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

does it always take lost-media this long to get pictures up? I want to see the hi-res screencap of that scene w/ the building.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> So, it's not impossible that Libby saw the news coverage of him winning the lottery. If she knew him already from the mental hospital, it would have stuck that much more strongly in her memory. (HEY! I *KNOW* that guy!!)


Does anyone have the scene of Hurley running on the plane?
If so, is Libby there? And if she is, does she show any sign of recognition towards him?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> Does anyone have the scene of Hurley running on the plane?
> If so, is Libby there? And if she is, does she show any sign of recognition towards him?


I recently picked up the season I DVD set.

I've been meaning to check this but haven't gotten 'round to it yet.

I'll be most surprised and impressed if she is there, though.

In all likelihood, the decision to hire Cynthia Watros to play Libby occurred during the summer break. If they had the foresight to hire her as a guest for that first season episode, for the purpose of that little bit of foreshadowing, I'd be really impressed!

(OTOH, they *did* briefly introduce us to Anna Lucia near the end of last season... So... maybe...)


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Cant remember if this animation of the plane going down in the corner was posted...and I'm not searching, so here it is... 

http://community.livejournal.com/lostdiscussion/30267.html#cutid1


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Great post hefe. 
Those of us without Lost in HD are really losing out.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

hefe said:


> Cant remember if this animation of the plane going down in the corner was posted...and I'm not searching, so here it is...
> 
> http://community.livejournal.com/lostdiscussion/30267.html#cutid1


Oh wow! SD folks didn't see that?!?!


----------



## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

Charlie has been acting very strange and having hallucinations. Locke seems to step right in and get close to the baby. Locke has the Heroin.

Do you think that Locke could be drugging Charlie somehow in order to drive a wedge between him and Claire?


----------



## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Oh wow! SD folks didn't see that?!?!


On my sd, you can see movement over in the corner, but you can't see the plane clearly. It is clearly heard however.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

GadgetFreak said:


> Charlie has been acting very strange and having hallucinations. Locke seems to step right in and get close to the baby. Locke has the Heroin.
> 
> Do you think that Locke could be drugging Charlie somehow in order to drive a wedge between him and Claire?


Interesting idea! After all, Locke did drug Boone with that psychedelic paste in season 1.

Not sure what his ultimate motives are, but he has always involved himself with the baby, and now that Charlie is on the outs with Claire, he is stepping up his involvement. Hmmmm.....


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

I hope the next Lost is more exciting. I'm losing interest fast. I think if it weren't for some of the guys at work talking about it, I'd already be out.

tk


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> In all likelihood, the decision to hire Cynthia Watros to play Libby occurred during the summer break. If they had the foresight to hire her as a guest for that first season episode, for the purpose of that little bit of foreshadowing, I'd be really impressed!


Exactly. I think she was doing a few movies last year. I can't believe she's in the shot of Hurley getting on the plane.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Weak episode. A few points of interest, but generally weak.
> 
> Locke's _keeping_ the statues/heroin combined with his rather over the top behavior in this episode (beating the crap out of Charlie on the beach was out of character, even for Locke, and completely unnecessary) make me wonder if Locke is in fact using. (As others previously mentioned.) _That_ would be a bizarre twist!!


I also think Locke is using. When Charlie told him that he and Ecko burned the plane and all the drugs, he just kinda had a shocked look on his face. Then after he took the statues and put them in his backpack and later ran into Clair, he made it a point to hide the statues from her.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> I also think Locke is using. When Charlie told him that he and Ecko burned the plane and all the drugs, he just kinda had a shocked look on his face. Then after he took the statues and put them in his backpack and later ran into Clair, he made it a point to hide the statues from her.


I don't think it's because he's using. Not only did he hide the statues, he actually covered for Charlie in a way at that time. He didn't have to do that. He told Claire that Charlie just wanted to save the baby because he can't save himself...he didn't narc about Charlie hiding anything.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

I think Locke looked shocked because he is wondering why Ecko would burn the plane. He doesn't know his backstory (about his brother) as far as we know.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Then after he took the statues and put them in his backpack and later ran into Clair, he made it a point to hide the statues from her.


I didn't take that scene so much as him _hiding_ the statues from her as simply deciding not to tell her about them, thus giving Charlie a break. And I think he kept the statues in case there was a medical use for the heroin.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I aklways smile when people talk about the expressions in Locke's face. The thing is, he rarely has ANY expression on his face, and people like to read things into the blankness.


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

just watched it and it should be named "locke is an ass"
all hail hooded charlie, newest "other".


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

darthrsg said:


> just watched it and it should be named "locke is an ass"
> all hail hooded charlie, newest "other".


Funny, I was all set to call it "Charlie is an ass."


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Here is a link to the plane:

http://community.livejournal.com/lostdiscussion/30267.html


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Scubee said:


> Exactly. I think she was doing a few movies last year. I can't believe she's in the shot of Hurley getting on the plane.


She isn't.

I just re-watched that part of Exodus Part II from the DVD. Widescreen (albeit not HD) so she would be visible even if she were at the edges of the picture.

No Libby.

I still think that she was on the plane (the character was, that is), it's simply that Cynthia Watros was not available (or cast yet) to appear in that episode.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I think I need to re-watch the Hurley episode on DVD to verify Libby's story about Hurley stepping on her foot. She did remember how sweaty he was, but that would have been easy since he was the last to board and hard to have missed.


Since Scriptmaster Hefe didn't jump on this yet, here's the transcript...


Exodus (3) said:


> (And finally ... Hurley enters the plane, tired and sweaty. He takes a deep breath and makes his way to his seat. He looks around and catches Walt's eyes. Walt glances up from his hand-held game and looks at Hurley as he walks by. Hurley sees Walt. He sticks his tongue out to the side and gives him a thumb's up sign.)
> 
> (Walt smiles back at Hurley. Just then, Michael glances down at Walt, who is still smiling as he returns to his game.)
> 
> (Hurley takes his seat. He buckles up. He reaches next to him and puts on his headphones. He takes out the comic book, Green Lantern/Flash: Faster Friends #1. He opens it and bends the comic book back over the page he's reading. We see the page on the polar bear. Hurley starts reading.)


No feet stepped upon.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> Well, it has only been just over 50 days and they had a lot of luggage, including toiletries, etc., from the non-survivors. So it's plausible that they'd have a decent supply of this stuff. Is it realistic to expect that they'd look like they do? I dunno, but they would have some makeup, etc.


Yeah - I can see they could have makeup available, but you're stranded on an island for over 50 days and you're going to wake up and put on mascara and lip stick?


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Boring episode IMHO


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

thenightfly42 said:


> No feet stepped upon.


Thanks!

I am still thinking Libby and Hurley recognize each other from the pysch ward. Maybe they were both patients, maybe one a patient one a doc, but somehow they have maybe met there.

But this is Lost, so that may be too predictable. Lost likes to twist perspectives on things.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

mike_k said:


> Yeah - I can see they could have makeup available, but you're stranded on an island for over 50 days and you're going to wake up and put on mascara and lip stick?


As a related aside, wasn't there a brief bit last year about being unable to find any brushes or combs among the personal items in the wreckage. I remember thinking "DNA"...


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

Ladd Morse said:


> As a related aside, wasn't there a brief bit last year about being unable to find any brushes or combs among the personal items in the wreckage. I remember thinking "DNA"...


Yes.


1X05: WHITE RABBIT (TWIZ) said:


> (Kate is going through the clothes when Claire walks up to her.)
> 
> CLAIRE: Hey. You haven't found a hairbrush in there, have you?
> 
> ...


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

there is signage on that building. it's a large picture of a face that appears to be wearing sunglasses but i can't make it out on my tv


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## xerxes1973 (Jun 5, 2005)

I was reading an editorial review of Pink Floyd's "Animals" (sorry, not familiar with their work) on Amazon and it says the following:

"_Animals_ is innovative and musically diverse in its own right. Inspired in part by George Orwell's political fable _Animal Farm_, Roger Waters condemns the avarice and inequalities of capitalism, metaphorically and musically grouping humans as pigs, dogs, and sheep. The pigs are self-righteous hypocrites inflicting their beliefs on everyone else, the dogs greedy money-grabbers, and the sheep witless followers. Dark, cynical, and brilliantly composed, _Animals_ is an ingenious and under-acknowledged album."

The whole idea of Roussea vs Locke (socialism vs capitalism) would lead us to consider Locke's group as the capitalists. Following this line of thought and the theme of Pink Floyd's album, Jack and Locke would be considered the pigs (each trying to be the leader by using science vs. faith), Sawyer and Kate the dogs (taking advantage of whatever situation is afoot), and everyone else the sheep.

I'm trying to make the Pink Floyd reference fit in. Just thinking out loud ... Thoughts?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

It does look like a face on that building, but as the picture linked to below shows, it's just an optical illusion (from The Fuselage).

http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battersealost12wk.jpg

As for Animal Farm, the historical Locke and Rousseau, and other literary and other references, I think it's a mistake (although fun  ) to try and find a one to one correspondence to major themes, plots, and characters of the referent to the themes, plots and characters of Lost. Many people have tried, but there are just too many left over pieces after the puzzle is put together.

Instead, I think any reference should be seen as an allusion, and not as a key to interpreting the narrative.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

chavez said:


> there is signage on that building. it's a large picture of a face that appears to be wearing sunglasses but i can't make it out on my tv


The signage in question is the long white banner hanging on the top right side of the building. It appears to have two words, but the resolution is not high enough to read them.

Here is the picture:


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> The signage in question is the long white banner hanging on the top right side of the building. It appears to have two words, but the resolution is not high enough to read them.
> 
> Here is the picture:


We need a CSI lab to run one of those cool "enhancing" routines that cleans up low res pictures so perfectly...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hefe said:


> We need a CSI lab to run one of those cool "enhancing" routines that cleans up low res pictures so perfectly...


(something) CONSTRUCTION.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dswallow said:


> (something) CONSTRUCTION.


C'mon Doug. Can't you do better than that? I thought you'd have that CSI photo enhancing software for sure. 

Is it someone's last name before Construction? Do any of the character's last names fit? What about a word that has something to do with Dharma or Alvar Hanso?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Might be the actual construction company that is working on it. It is currently undergoing quite a renovation...

http://www.thepowerstation.co.uk/project/

Here it is on Google Maps...
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=london&ll=51.481804,-0.144367&spn=0.004243,0.013561&t=h


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

None of the companies listed here seem to match. And the sign looks digitally added to me. It's too perfect.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I checked for that too...

I would think that if there were something to be read, they would make it readable. Even on HD you can't make anything out.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hefe said:


> I checked for that too...
> 
> I would think that if there were something to be read, they would make it readable. Even on HD you can't make anything out.


That image is below the HD broadcast resolution.


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## sik209 (Jan 28, 2006)

i wish i had hdtv..........


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I haven't listened to the podcast, but I thought that someone posted that the easter egg was supposed to be something that would have more light shed on it in a later episode.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Below is a nice sharp image of Battersea Station culled from here. I'm not sure what the date of the photo is, but as you can see, no sign.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dswallow said:


> That image is below the HD broadcast resolution.


That much is obvious. My confusion is over the fact that they made reference to signage in the podcast, and yet did not make it readable in the episode.

I have gone back several times to the source on my HD-TiVo to no avail...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I haven't listened to the podcast, but I thought that someone posted that the easter egg was supposed to be something that would have more light shed on it in a later episode.


Here's the section of the podcast...

Lindeloff: "...just as a sort of little tidbit for the Easter egg hunters, there is a flashback in this episode that takes place in London, and you will see the London skyline, and you might want to check it out sort of very very carefully. There's an iconic building there that you music fans might recognize...I don't want to tip from what, but...there's some signage..."

Cuse: "An homage, as it were."

Lindeloff: "... there's some signage on that building too that might pay off later for those of you who are Easter egg hunting that you should write down and say, 'what does this mean?' but all will be revealed...


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I found the source of the picture I posted above of the BPS sans sign. It's dated May 2004--before construction was due to start on the BPS renovation. So, that's of no help. I suppose someone could email them and ask if there's a sign hangin out front...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Who has screen caps of the diaper packages DriveShaft was holding in the shoot? Any clues or treats there?


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## jtfresh (Nov 14, 2005)

This episode reminded me of reading a good Stephen King book where he gets diarrhea of the pen and goes off on a tangent. I was thoroughly bored by this episode but I know this wil be one of very few in this show's lifespan. You just get throug it and wait for it to get back on track


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Plucked from here, on Charlie's father the butcher chopping off the head of the doll:



> I saw this as another Beatles reference much like Charlie's "Living is Easy With Eyes Closed" (lyric from "Strawberry Fields") tattoo and him counting by Sugar Plum Faries(John Lennon's original intro to "A Day in the Life").
> 
> This appears to refer to The Beatles' original "Yesterday... And Today" album cover where they're dressed as butchers covered in meat and decapitated baby dolls.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Isn't Charlie's tattoo an actual tattoo on the actor?


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

hefe said:


> Isn't Charlie's tattoo an actual tattoo on the actor?


That one that says 'fellowship' in elvish... I saw it on Magneto and that new guy on "24" as well! Another secret LOST connection and clue!


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## hereafter (May 18, 2005)

darthrsg said:


> all hail hooded charlie, newest "other".


I almost expected that after Charlie put up his hood and the screen faded to black, we'd hear some heavy Darth Vader-like breathing...

Charlie's gone over to the dark side, that's for sure.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

5thcrewman said:


> Who has screen caps of the diaper packages DriveShaft was holding in the shoot? Any clues or treats there?


The diapers are called "Butties Diapers". The band is singing "We All Every-Butties!" No clues, just some really funny stuff.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Haven't gone through the entire thread yet, but I believe the building in London was also on a Pink Floyd album cover, so that would be the homage Lindelhof and Cuse were referring to.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

getreal said:


> Haven't gone through the entire thread yet, but I believe the building in London was also on a Pink Floyd album cover, so that would be the homage Lindelhof and Cuse were referring to.


Super...now if you can just read the sign for us, we'll be all set...


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

hefe said:


> Super...now if you can just read the sign for us, we'll be all set...


I tried again pulling the sign out of the highest quality download that I could find, to no avail. It's going to have to come from someone that has a legit HDTV signal with no compression...


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

It kinda looked like Monroe Construction, but that's just a guess.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

Monroe Construction is a real company....in Playa Del Rey, CA, according to their website www.monroeconstruction.com. Not much going on there.


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## Dromomaniac (Jul 26, 2003)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> Monroe Construction is a real company....in Playa Del Rey, CA, according to their website www.monroeconstruction.com. Not much going on there.


Hmmm, there are *8* images on that page....


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

[homer] BORING [/homer]


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Terrible episode. I'm really starting to dislike Lost a lot now.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

Dromomaniac said:


> Hmmm, there are *8* images on that page....


I only see 6, not counting the company logo.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Vito the TiVo said:


> I tried again pulling the sign out of the highest quality download that I could find, to no avail. It's going to have to come from someone that has a legit HDTV signal with no compression...


I have that, but still can't read it.

(Well, nobody has *no * compression, but my signal was OTA)


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## headroll (Jan 20, 2003)

I finally am caught up on all LOST episodes with a combination of Blockbuster rentals, I-Tunes downloads and Tivo recordings.

Has anyone in the TCF posted a 'degrees of separation' thread (i.e. where paths have definitely, might have crossed).

Although many paths crossed in the airport, there are several path crossings that happen prior to the airport.

Most have most likely been mentioned before.

1. Is Shannon's father the one killed (driving the SUV) by Jack's to-be wife?
2. Hurley's presence on the internatrional news during Jins first confrontation scene.
3. Speculation that Libby knows Hurley from the 'happy house'


-Roll


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## ced6 (Jul 30, 2003)

Just to balance out some of the other opinions, I wanted to add my two cents that both my bf and I liked this episode. We thought it was wonderful for character development. So there


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

headroll said:


> I finally am caught up on all LOST episodes with a combination of Blockbuster rentals, I-Tunes downloads and Tivo recordings.
> 
> Has anyone in the TCF posted a 'degrees of separation' thread (i.e. where paths have definitely, might have crossed).
> 
> ...


http://lost.cubit.net/connections.php


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Anybody read any of the LOST books? Written about other survivors not featured in the show. Are these sponsored by J.J. Abrams or the other producers?


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

My friends and I tried to figure it out last night on an HD Tivo recorded directly from an off-air antenna, which means no extra compression, on my 101" inch 720p display (which is the show's native resolution.) It didn't look much clearer than that picture posted earlier in this thread.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Anyone here wanna help a dood out? I was experiencing technical issues with my DTV receiver last week and this show was one of the many my tivo recorded nothing but black on!

I need a copy before next weeks episode airs, can anyone help wiht a dvd?

r


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

rkester said:


> Anyone here wanna help a dood out? I was experiencing technical issues with my DTV receiver last week and this show was one of the many my tivo recorded nothing but black on!
> 
> I need a copy before next weeks episode airs, can anyone help wiht a dvd?
> 
> r


There's always the iTunes store. $1.99.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Yeah, but thats so low res. I want something that will at the very least look decent on the tv, similar to the tivo in quality. SO I can burn it to a DVD to save for later.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Bit-Torrent is your friend...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

rkester said:


> ... this show was one of the many my tivo recorded nothing but black on!


Yesterday's episode was a re-run of the "Numbers" episode featuring Hurley's back story.

Or were you referring to last week's episode featuring Charlie's dreams?


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Yes, last weeks new episode, the title of this thread Fire + Water.

BitTorrent, dont use it veyr much. Have no clue how to find a show on it or what quality Id get.

I was hoping that someone here could dvd it for me, like ive done for others on many occassions.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Over on 4815162342.com they are talking much further about Pink Floyd's *Animals* album.










Scuttle over there is saying that the lyrics on the album (and the three different animals theme) mirrors the story line(s) a lot. Most noted was the lyrics to *Sheep*:



> Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
> Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
> You better watch out,
> There may be dogs about
> ...


And then supplement this with the wikipedia entry for Animals and you have some "interesting" information.......who knows



> The album appears to be heavily inspired by George Orwell's Animal Farm as, through the central three songs, all of which are over 10 minutes in length, Roger Waters equates all humans to one of three types of animals: dogs, pigs, or sheep. Dogs are used to represent the megalomaniacal businessmen who are finished by being dragged down by the very weight they needed to throw around. The song "Dogs" was originally titled "You Gotta Be Crazy" when performed live in 1974 and 1975. Pigs represent the corrupt politicians and moralists (with direct references to Mary Whitehouse and Margaret Thatcher, who at the time was Education Secretary and would not become Prime Minister for another two years). Those who do not fall into either of these two categories are sheep, who follow blindly, without any self-thought. ("Sheep" was originally called "Raving and Drooling" when performed live in 1974 and 1975).
> 
> The three core songs are bookended by a pair of love songs written by Waters for his then-wife Caroline: "Pigs on the Wing, Part 1" and "Pigs on the Wing, Part 2". Both are in stark contrast to the misanthropic middle three songs, and suggest that companionship can help us overcome our flaws. Waters also refers to himself as a dog in Part 2. For the 8-track cartridge release, which looped, Parts 1 and 2 were linked by a guitar bridge performed by Snowy White.
> 
> Les Claypool's Frog Brigade covered the entire album in some concerts and eventually released a recording of this exact cover.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Wow, listening to Pink Floyd right now while typing, heck I even had Animals on this morning... Maybe that is why I like lost.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Is this one of those play it while listening to Lost and it matches up perfectly things?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

What happens if you listen to "Animals" while watching Lost? Hmmm.... Maybe a DSOTM/OZ effect?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

How about the fact that they were still showing credits at about 12 minutes into the show....Just realized that...thought I'd mention it


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

rkester said:


> Is this one of those play it while listening to Lost and it matches up perfectly things?


No, but I think it is more like the producers are fans of Floyd and they took some great lyrics and maybe used them as the basis for the series........


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I DLed this episode off itunes for kicks. its tiny 3220x240, but it actually doesnt look bad scaled to 640x480 on the computer.

But i have NO clue how to get it on a DVd to watch on the pc for my brother.

ANYONE here record it to a dvd who can hook me up with a copy? PLEASE.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

#(%*&^@($*$!!

Don't go to FARK today; they have a huge Lost spoiler sitting there right on the front page.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I just went over there, and without spoiling it for people here, this statement makes me take what's said with a grain of salt:



> Lost is my regular prostitute's favorite show of all time. She obsesses over it pretty much every time she comes over, trying to figure out what exactly is on the island and why the survivors are there. It's hard to understand her with her mouth full, but I don't have money to waste on conversations about the mysteries of the hatch.


The site that Fark links to also quotes US Weekly, one of our finest publications.

Greg


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

The Easter Egg from this episode has been demystified.

On the podcast, Lindeloff and Cuse referenced the fact that they had teased that there would be some signage on the "famous building." Well, they noted that it appeared much smaller than they had expected. As a result, we couldn't read the sign, even in HD. So they told us that it reads


Spoiler



Widmore Construction. The implication would be that this won't be the only time we hear of Widmore Construction.


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

I probably don't need to spoiler this, but I will just in case.



Spoiler



Didn't Michael do construction work? I wouldn't be surprised if we have a Michael 
backstory soon and in it he is working for Widmore Construction.

Or maybe we see a stamp in the concrete (or some marker) in one of the hatches that says Widmore Construction as the company who built it.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bacevedo said:


> I probably don't need to spoiler this, but I will just in case.


Very good possibilities, I would guess...


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Thanks for that info Hefe, but spoiler tags are unnecessary.

On the word "Widmore", a quick search reveals this info:

It's an area in London.
http://www.villageuk.com/ukvillages.nsf/villages/Widmore-Greater+London
This is the likeliest reason for the name "Widmore Construction".

It's name is made of two parts: 
Wid -- from Celtic meaning "to know"
More -- meaning... uh, "more"

BTW, "wid" derives from PIE "weid" which means "to see" and gave us our word "video", which is what we've been staring at trying to decipher the words "Widmore Construction". Irony?

None of this is helpful, but there you go...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Thanks for that info Hefe, but spoiler tags are unnecessary.


What can I say...I'm a cautious pessimist... 

Better safe than sorry.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

hefe said:


> What can I say...I'm a cautious pessimist...
> 
> Better safe than sorry.


Like when you have sex.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

C'mon now Indy, you should know...sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Last night I jacked my Mini into the HDTV and we watched this episode I got off iTunes Store full screen. I hate to say it but the quality of that little 320x240 movie blew away what my Tivo puts out at Best quality. Kinda sad really.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rkester said:


> Last night I jacked my Mini into the HDTV and we watched this episode I got off iTunes Store full screen. I hate to say it but the quality of that little 320x240 movie blew away what my Tivo puts out at Best quality. Kinda sad really.


What's the source that TiVo is recording? Cable? The downloaded version is compressed from the pure original -- no analog broadcast noise effects or compression artifacts being compressed again from a digital-to-analog source.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

hefe said:


> The Easter Egg from this episode has been demystified.
> 
> On the podcast, Lindeloff and Cuse referenced the fact that they had teased that there would be some signage on the "famous building." Well, they noted that it appeared much smaller than they had expected. As a result, we couldn't read the sign, even in HD. So they told us that it reads
> 
> ...


Was this on the podcast for this episode or one of the later ones where they answer questions? I don't remember hearing it.


----------

