# Tivo Bolt OTA - How to connect Antenna and coaxial cable for Moca?



## gemini929 (Nov 5, 2018)

All,

I am trying to do some research on the Bolt OTA box before buying it. Looking at the back, I see only a single coaxial connection (#2 in the picture). How would you connect both an antenna and your existing cable to create a moca network? Do you need some sort of adapter to do this? Its not clear how this works.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

gemini929 said:


> I am trying to do some research on the Bolt OTA box before buying it. Looking at the back, I see only a single coaxial connection (#2 in the picture). How would you connect both an antenna and your existing cable to create a moca network?


Trick question ... you don't, since the BOLT OTA box doesn't include any MoCA functionality. TiVo chose to leave out (remove) the MoCA hardware from the BOLT OTA model; all other BOLT models have built-in MoCA bridging/connectivity. *IF* the BOLT OTA requires a MoCA/coax network connection (because it can't be connected via Ethernet), then you'd need to use a standalone MoCA adapter to make the MoCA connection on the BOLT OTA's behalf.

If you'd planned on using the BOLT OTA as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge (to "create a MoCA network), you'll need a standalone MoCA adapter to handle that function. You'll need a single MoCA adapter connected to your shared coax and to the Ethernet LAN to function as the MoCA bridge, and then additional MoCA adapters for any MoCA-less devices needing a wired network connection (lacking Ethernet connectivity but with an available connection to the shared coax plant).

Exactly how the MoCA adapter, BOLT OTA, antenna, et al would be connected would depend on the specific setup. _(... but the main issue is keeping antenna signals separate from any cable TV/Internet signals on the coax, since they use overlapping frequencies)_


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Exactly how the MoCA adapter, BOLT OTA, antenna, et al would be connected would depend on the specific setup. _(... but the main issue is keeping antenna signals separate from any cable TV/Internet signals on the coax, since they use overlapping frequencies)_


So, specific to your setup, then, where would the devices be located and what coax and/or Ethernet runs/connections are available?


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## gemini929 (Nov 5, 2018)

Thanks for the reply. Are we 100% sure that the Moca capability was removed from the BOLT OTA? I have been unable to determine this from Tivo's site.

Today I have Comcast cable/ethernet. Cable runs into the house into a commscope CSMAPDU9VP cable amplifier. Based on some previous threads, this is an older version that doesn't support Moca. As I understand it, I would have to replace this with a commscope CSMAPDU9VPI (see here) as this supports Moca 2.0 and has a built in POE filter. The odd thing is that I think the Comcast boxes I have use Moca today as the amplifier has a Moca filter that looks like this.

Today, the cable from the street goes into the "IN" jack. From there, one of the "out" jacks feeds my cable modem and the rest feed the other 4 Comcast boxes in my house.

I am really not sure how to proceed setting up the Tivo Bolt OTA box with this setup. I could take the cable from the street and connect it directly to my cable modem as I plan on keeping internet. Not sure what to do with the rest of this stuff or how/where I would connect a digital antenna. Thoughts?

-Josh


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## gemini929 (Nov 5, 2018)

gemini929 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Are we 100% sure that the Moca capability was removed from the BOLT OTA? I have been unable to determine this from Tivo's site.
> 
> Today I have Comcast cable/ethernet. Cable runs into the house into a commscope CSMAPDU9VP cable amplifier. Based on some previous threads, this is an older version that doesn't support Moca. As I understand it, I would have to replace this with a commscope CSMAPDU9VPI (see here) as this supports Moca 2.0 and has a built in POE filter. The odd thing is that I think the Comcast boxes I have use Moca today as the amplifier has a Moca filter that looks like this.
> 
> ...


Looks like you might be right. Comparing the two product pages:

TiVo BOLT OTA
2. Coax (Antenna, ATSC)
Internet Connection
* Built-in wireless
 * Ethernet port

TiVo BOLT VOX
2. Coax (digital cable, ATSC, MoCA)
Internet Connection
* Built-in wireless
* Ethernet port
* Coax/built-in MoCA bridge

No mention of MoCA on the BOLT OTA. Does this still make sense when you add an additional $80 for their MoCA bridge? I haven't bought my own cable modem yet. I know the Comcast one support MoCA (though its disabled). Should I be looking for a cable modem that has this built in or should I be keeping these devices separate?


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## gemini929 (Nov 5, 2018)

After a bit of searching, I found a table that does definitively say that the BOLT OTA requires the MoCA bridge. Bummer.

See this page: Tivo Customer Support Community


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

gemini929 said:


> After a bit of searching, I found a table that does definitively say that the BOLT OTA requires the MoCA bridge. Bummer.
> 
> See this page: Tivo Customer Support Community


You're going to need two adapters, at a minimum- one at your router, to "bridge" ethernet traffic between your router and your coax plant, and the other near the Bolt OTA, to serve the same function, bridging traffic between your Bolt OTA's ethernet connection and your coax plant.

You can find better options for MoCA adapter. I use the Motorola MM1000, which will deliver traffic at near gigabit ethernet speeds (over 800 Mbps, which is double the speed of the MoCA 2.0 Tivo Bridge Adapter). The MM1000 has a built in diplexer, so it allows you to connect the bridge to the coax plant via the coax "network" connection, and use the coax "device" connection to the Bolt for tuning OTA signals.

You can also find very inexpensive MoCA 1.1 adapters, which are slower speed, but would still be suitable if your only purpose was to connect a Bolt OTA to a Mini via MoCA (and no Bridge adapter, of course, would be needed at the Mini).


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

A stand alone adapter at the modem would likely be less expensive/intrusive than replacing the cable modem. If you are no longer using any of the other coax ports for cable TV, phone, or internet service, you could uncouple all of the drop lines, save the drop going to modem, and attach the uncoupled drops to a multiple port MoCA rated splitter, adding a POE filter and 75 ohm terminator on the input of the splitter.

You'd still have internet service to the modem, undisturbed, but the coax network in your house would be isolated and thus used for OTA broadcast and MoCA data


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## gemini929 (Nov 5, 2018)

tapokata said:


> A stand alone adapter at the modem would likely be less expensive/intrusive than replacing the cable modem. If you are no longer using any of the other coax ports for cable TV, phone, or internet service, you could uncouple all of the drop lines, save the drop going to modem, and attach the uncoupled drops to a multiple port MoCA rated splitter, adding a POE filter and 75 ohm terminator on the input of the splitter.
> 
> You'd still have internet service to the modem, undisturbed, but the coax network in your house would be isolated and thus used for OTA broadcast and MoCA data


Given my existing cable setup is:

* cable from street -> CSMAPDU9VP (amplified splitter mentioned above without MoCA support) -> cable modem and 4 Comcast boxes

Thinking out loud, can I set it up this way and only need one adapter?

1. cable from street -> cable modem -> wifi router/switch -> Tivo Bolt OTA via ethernet. Antenna connected to Bolt OTA coaxial connection.
2. wifi router/switch -> MoCA bridge -> CSMAPDU9VPI (amplified splitter mentioned above with MoCA support) -> multiple Tivo minis?

For #1, no POE filter would be needed bewtween the antenna and Bolt OTA box as there is no MoCA there.
For #2, the amplified splitter is only connected to the MoCA bridge

With this setup, I don't think any POE filter would be necessary. Will this work?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

I'm a bit unclear. Why will you need the 4 Comcast boxes? I make the assumption here that you are replacing those boxes with the Bolt OTA and three Minis?

If you are only using the connections in #2 for the Minis, you should have no need for an amplified signal. Use an 4:1 MoCA rated splitter in #2. Connect a POE filter with a 75 ohm terminator cap on the input side port of the splitter. Connect the Bridge coax to one of the output ports, and the other three drops to for your Minis. Connect the Bridge ethernet to your router/switch. The POE fllter on the splitter is helping with the signal reflectance in the MoCA bandwidth, which will passively strengthen the signal between the MoCA devices connected to the splitter

For #1, as long as the coax connection from the Bolt port runs directly to the antenna (that is, not through another splitter), you won't need a PoE filter in that location, as there's no MoCA on that down-lead. You can keep the connection coming from the street to the existing amplifier, and use only one drop from that amplifier to your router/switch, as currently installed. All other drops would be disconnected and used in #2, isolating your coax plant from Comcast's external network.

You are correct that you would only need one bridge adapter.


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## gemini929 (Nov 5, 2018)

Thanks for your quick reply. Just to be clear... I am looking to "cut the cord" (except for internet). The 4 Comcast boxes will be replaced by 1 Bolt OTA and 3 minis.

Any recommendations for a 4:1 MoCA rated splitter?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

https://www.amazon.com/Holland-Elec...MoCA+splitter&qid=1561177124&s=gateway&sr=8-4

A Holland Electronics like the above is my preference. Don't forget to install the PoE filter, along with a 75 ohm terminator, on the input port.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

gemini929 said:


> Thanks for your quick reply. Just to be clear... I am looking to "cut the cord" (except for internet). The 4 Comcast boxes will be replaced by 1 Bolt OTA and 3 minis.
> 
> Any recommendations for a 4:1 MoCA rated splitter?


Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Do you have only the one coax run from the central amp location to the room with the modem/router?



gemini929 said:


> I am looking to "cut the cord" (except for internet). The 4 Comcast boxes will be replaced by 1 Bolt OTA and 3 minis.


Are the 4 Comcast boxes an X1 DVR and 3 X1 client-only boxes?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I'm unclear on your modem/router setup, as described:


gemini929 said:


> I haven't bought my own cable modem yet. I know the Comcast one support MoCA (though its disabled).





gemini929 said:


> 1. cable from street -> cable modem -> wifi router/switch


Do you have a combo modem/router (i.e. a gateway) from Comcast and are using it as a gateway, or do you just have a modem or are using the Comcast-supplied gateway in bridged mode (effectively reducing the gateway to a modem) in combination with your own third-party router?

What's the model # of your Comcast-supplied modem/gateway?

Most Comcast-supplied gateways now have built-in MoCA bridging ... but this functionality is disabled/unavailable if using the gateway as a modem (bridged mode).

'gist: You shouldn't need any MoCA adapters if you have a modern Comcast gateway operating as a gateway and with its built-in MoCA bridging enabled. If using the gateway in bridged mode (or your own modem) to feed a separate router the Internet connection, you'll need a MoCA adapter to function as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

gemini929 said:


> Today I have Comcast cable/ethernet. Cable runs into the house into a commscope CSMAPDU9VP cable amplifier. Based on some previous threads, this is an older version that doesn't support Moca. As I understand it, I would have to replace this with a commscope CSMAPDU9VPI (see here) as this supports Moca 2.0 and has a built in POE filter. The odd thing is that I think the Comcast boxes I have use Moca today as the amplifier has a Moca filter that looks like this.


You are likely correct in your guess, meaning that your existing coax setup is capable of supporting MoCA ... just not an optimal coax plant for MoCA.

With a direct antenna connection to the BOLT OTA, you should be able to use the existing coax plant, as-is***, to get MoCA connectivity going for your TiVo boxes ... either using a standalone MoCA adapter or a Comcast gateway as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge. (A MoCA adapter could use the coax run that would go unused by the BOLT OTA, and you could use a network switch at the BOLT OTA location to provide both devices with Ethernet connectivity if separate Ethernet connections to the router aren't possible.)

That said, if you have the coax runs to support doing so, you'd benefit from establishing a direct connection for the modem, if only to prevent any possible MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1 conflicts down the road. You could then optionally replace the amplifier with a simple splitter, as suggested by @tapokata; either way, you'd want to ensure any open coax ports are capped with a 75-ohm terminator.

** *edit: It's unknown/questionable whether your Mini boxes could connect via MoCA prior to removal of the Comcast set-top boxes. X1 MoCA setups often conflict with a DIY MoCA install.


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## wdw1532 (Jul 2, 2019)

I'm in a similar boat looking for help to get my MoCA setup up and running. I'm coming from a Roamio Pro with MoCA and one TiVo Mini. I ordered a BOLT OTA and a TiVo Bridge to hook up to the new OTA antenna now that I've ditched cable and so far TiVo support has been clueless to get this new setup working. I honestly put more faith in this forum than their support staff.

Here's my setup. Hopefully someone will have the answer.

I have the OTA antenna coax coming directly to the living room where the BOLT OTA is. It's connected to a MoCA filter and into a splitter. The other coax connected to the splitter is: #1 going to TiVo BOLT OTA, #2 going to the TiVo Bridge, #3 going back to the in-wall coax which connects to the rest of the house and connects with the TiVo Mini in the bedroom.

Note, we ran a dedicated new coax line to the antenna since it was not getting great signal strength when connected through the existing coax. I think it was not getting enough power from the antenna power block.

Also, based on suggestions I found in this forum, we separated the cable modem internet service from the rest of the existing coax network. So, currently the cable company's internet coax comes in and goes directly to the modem. It does not connect to the rest of the coax in the house.

Per the TiVo MoCA instructions, we have ethernet cable running from the TiVo Bridge to the router. No ethernet cable is running directly to the TiVo Bolt OTA although we did try that while troubleshooting. It was my understanding that the bridge would send the internet signal to the TiVo BOLT through the MoCA/coax.

This setup should be correct based on everything we've read and TiVo said it was correct. However, when we go into the network settings on the TiVo BOLT OTA, it does not list the option for MoCA the way it used to on my Roamio Pro (which had built-in MoCA).

What I assumed was that the TiVo Bridge would be sensed by the TiVo BOLT and it would add the option for MoCA. I think that's how it worked when I setup my friends Roamio OTA and Bridge a few years back. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. When connected in this manner, TiVo can't get internet either.

So, what are we doing wrong? TiVo support tried to say after a lot of run around that suddenly they think we need two TiVo Bridges instead of one. When I questioned that, we mysteriously got disconnected. I even tried to connect the old Roamio Pro so that it could create the MoCA network but I still couldn't connect to the MoCA with the TiVo BOLT OTA even with the Roamio up and running.

We had MoCA working for 4 years with the old TiVo Roamio setup and the only differences now are that we separated the internet coax, and replaced the Roamio Pro with built-in MoCA with the BOLT OTA and external MoCA/TiVo Bridge. Obviously the antenna was added too.

Hopefully that's enough information but please let me know if you need to know anything else.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

The Bolt OTA model does not have on-board MoCA support. If the Bolt is in the same room as your router, the easiest solution is to add an ethernet cable from the Bolt to your router. The connection from your router to the Bridge is correct- as it "bridges" the data between the ethernet and coax connections.

If the Bolt isn't in the same room, you'll need an additional adapter.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

In a word graphic:

Antenna > (coax) > Bolt OTA <> (ethernet) <> router <> (ethernet) <> Tivo Bridge <> (coax) <> Mini

Televisions signals are moving from the Antenna to the Bolt coax port. Data signals are moving to/from the Bolt ethernet port, to/from the router, to/from the router to the Tivo Bridge via ethernet, and to/from the Bridge to/from the Mini via Coax.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wdw1532 said:


> However, when we go into the network settings on the TiVo BOLT OTA, it does not list the option for MoCA the way it used to on my Roamio Pro (which had built-in MoCA).


This is because, as @tapokata mentioned, the BOLT OTA lacks *any* MoCA functionality, unlike your Roamio Pro. The BOLT OTA is like the Roamio OTA, in that respect.



tapokata said:


> The Bolt OTA model does not have on-board MoCA support. If the Bolt is in the same room as your router, the easiest solution is to add an ethernet cable from the Bolt to your router. The connection from your router to the Bridge is correct- as it "bridges" the data between the ethernet and coax connections.


Agreed. The MoCA adapter requires an Ethernet connection to the router's LAN to bridge the coax/MoCA network to the LAN; and the BOLT requires the Ethernet connection for its own network connection. A slight twist to the configuration that would mirror the functionality you had built-in to the Roamio Pro would be using a standalone Gigabit Ethernet switch at the BOLT OTA/MoCA adapter location (rather than the router's built-in switch), connecting the switch back to the router LAN via an Ethernet cable, and connecting both the MoCA adapter and BOLT OTA to the standalone switch. Either way would work.

That said, you'd want to review your central junction and describe how all your coax runs now interconnect, after the modem has supposedly been given an isolated connection. You'd want to make sure that your shared coax plant has no physical connection to the cable provider, and that the central splitter still has a MoCA filter installed on its input (for its performance benefit), capped by a 75-ohm terminator.


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## wdw1532 (Jul 2, 2019)

tapokata said:


> In a word graphic:
> 
> Antenna > (coax) > Bolt OTA <> (ethernet) <> router <> (ethernet) <> Tivo Bridge <> (coax) <> Mini
> 
> Televisions signals are moving from the Antenna to the Bolt coax port. Data signals are moving to/from the Bolt ethernet port, to/from the router, to/from the router to the Tivo Bridge via ethernet, and to/from the Bridge to/from the Mini via Coax.


That's helpful. Thank you!


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## wdw1532 (Jul 2, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> This is because, as @tapokata mentioned, the BOLT OTA lacks *any* MoCA functionality, unlike your Roamio Pro. The BOLT OTA is like the Roamio OTA, in that respect.
> 
> Agreed. The MoCA adapter requires an Ethernet connection to the router's LAN to bridge the coax/MoCA network to the LAN; and the BOLT requires the Ethernet connection for its own network connection. A slight twist to the configuration that would mirror the functionality you had built-in to the Roamio Pro would be using a standalone Gigabit Ethernet switch at the BOLT OTA/MoCA adapter location (rather than the router's built-in switch), connecting the switch back to the router LAN via an Ethernet cable, and connecting both the MoCA adapter and BOLT OTA to the standalone switch. Either way would work.
> 
> That said, you'd want to review your central junction and describe how all your coax runs now interconnect, after the modem has supposedly been given an isolated connection. You'd want to make sure that your shared coax plant has no physical connection to the cable provider, and that the central splitter still has a MoCA filter installed on its input (for its performance benefit), capped by a 75-ohm terminator.


Thank you TiVo Community for pointing us in the right direction. It turns out, it was in fact working all along. My connections were correct.

Having previously had a Roamio Pro, I was used to seeing the MoCA setup options in the networking screen and was expecting to see that appear in the Bolt OTA after connecting the TiVo Bridge. Apparently so was TiVo support since they had me changing things around for an hour to try to get this to appear there in networking, despite it being correct from the beginning. Of course, these were the same people who told me the Bolt OTA had built-in MoCA and didn't need the TiVo Bridge. When I persisted, they finally confirmed with someone else I was right and a bridge was needed. Later they told me I needed two TiVo Bridges lol.

All I had to do to get this working was go into my TiVo Mini, and re-establish a MoCA connection from there, switch the DVR connection from Roamio Pro to Bolt OTA and BAM.. there it was. So much for the "experts" at TiVo support.

Now in addition to my Bolt OTA and Mini connected, I have the Roamio Pro connected so I can watch my backlog of old recorded shows.

Thank you again TiVo Community!


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## finstead (Jan 1, 2008)

I hope that I am not hijacking this thread; if so, I apologize. I have, however, questions along the line of those posed previously.

I am planning to ditch decades of DTV in favor of the TIVO Bolt OTA with 2 minis. I have questions about the MOCA setup and hope that the members of this forum can help me as you have others.

This is the proposed scenario: The external antenna coax feed comes through the basement where, after a POE filter, it goes to a splitter. One leg of that splitter goes to the TV room, and the other leg goes upstairs to the Tivo minis. In the TV room, the coax goes to a splitter; one leg connects to the Bolt OTA, and the other leg connects to a Tivo bridge. An Ethernet cable in the TV room connects to a switch which sends a signal to both the Bolt OTA and to the Bridge.

In the hope that a picture is worth a bunch of words, I am attaching a sketch of the proposal. Thanks in advance for whatever help you can give me.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Assuming you have some flexibility for how you run coax, I would suggest eliminating the splitters in the TV Room and basement, and running coax directly from the antenna to the Bolt OTA, which will maximize OTA signal stength. If it turns out that you need an amplifier, it should be placed as close as possible to the antenna. Then run separate coax from the "Network" port of the Bridge to the upstairs splitter. This coax will only carry MoCA signals. You can also forego the PoE filter with this scenario.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Your layout should work. If you don’t need over the air reception upstairs, just MoCA, you could install a diplexer instead of a splitter in the basement. That would reduce some of the insertion loss between the antenna and the Bolt tuner, helping the signal strength. If the FM connection isn’t needed, a diplexer in the TV room over a splitter would be beneficial as well- another reason why a bridge with an integrated diplexer circuit, such as a Motorola MM1000 would be a good choice for this location.


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## finstead (Jan 1, 2008)

Thank you for the above responses--they are really helpful. I MAY have some coax flexibility thanks to my prior DTV setup. Apparently, some of my thinking is impacted by my limited understanding of MOCA and diplexers. Specifically, does the output from a diplexers have both the OTA and the MOCA information? Also, why would the MM1000 be beneficial, and how are the inputs/outputs of the MM1000 hooked up in a system such as mine. I am looking at eliminating the amplifier, and running a second coax from the TV room to the basement, and possibly a second coax from the basement to the upstairs. Thanks again.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

A diplexer splits the frequency range carried by the cable. A typical unit has three ports- an "in" port, a "SAT" port, and a "UHF/VHF" port (or similar designations).

"IN" port = carries the full bandwidth range
"SAT" port = typically blocks the 5-800 MHz frequency band (where OTA lives)
"UHF/VHF") = typically blocks the 950-2150 MHz frequency band where MoCA resides (most MoCA is 1100 Mhz or higher).

Basically, you can keep OTA signal traffic isolated from MoCA traffic on the Coax plant, when a full range signal is not needed.

The insertion loss, or signal strength degradation, is lower with a diplexer- typically -1 dB along the signal path, compared to -3.5 dB (or greater) for a typical 2 port splitter. Lower insertion loss numbers in a coax plant configuration will maintain the signal strength from your antenna to your tuner.

The MM1000 has an integrated diplexer. It has two RF coax ports on the box, one that connects to your coax network, the other (noted as "device") that allows for lower frequencies (such as those for OTA) to pass to and from the device. It saves the need for a an additional diplexer.

If you're going to run separate coax cables, you won't need a diplexer, and possible fewer splitters, as you can keep the traffic separated through that method.

As for amplifiers, you have a couple of choices. A pre-amplifier is a powered amp located near the antenna, and is designed to boost the signal strength produced from the antenna. In relatively medium to strong signal areas, with a reasonable antenna, *it isn't needed, and can sometimes do more harm than good from over-amplification*. A distribution amplifier is designed to make up for the signal loss associated with insertions losses on the coax plant (ie, the use of multiple splitters, long cable runs, etc) after the amplifier. Distribution amplifiers *add signal strength, but also add noise *(insertion loss of their own)- in other words, it may strengthen medium to strong signals, but the noise floor is raised, which can obscure weak signals received by the antenna. A distribution amp that doesn't have enough power to overcome the downstream insertion loss will do more harm than good, as it only adds more system noise, so it's helpful to spend some time calculating your current signal loss before adding an amplifier to your plant. You may find that an amplifier isn't necessary- and the more passive the reception system, the greater the overall sensitivity to signal reception.

The level of insertion loss varies (typically increases) as the frequency increases as well, so the loss in the MoCA band is higher than in the OTA band. Fortunately, MoCA is a very robust system, designed to deal with high loss environments, and can typically maintain data link rates with a loss of better than -50 dB in the signal path.


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## finstead (Jan 1, 2008)

Tapokata--incredibly clear and helpful. Does this setup sound correct: Antenna to Diplexer IN port. Diplexer UHF/VHF port to Bolt. Diplexer SAT port via separate coax to upstairs minis. Ethernet from standalone switch to both the Bolt and the Diplexer. It does not appear that a filter will be necessary, but would it be advisable and, if so, where in the system? Your discussion of amplifiers suggests I will not need one, so will try with it out of the equation. I am uncertain how your sentence "If you're goin to run separate coax cables, you won't need a diplexer...." would apply to this proposed scenario. Thanks again.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tapokata said:


> A diplexer splits the frequency range carried by the cable. A typical unit has three ports- an "in" port, a "SAT" port, and a "UHF/VHF" port (or similar designations).
> 
> "IN" port = carries the full bandwidth range
> "SAT" port = typically blocks the 5-800 MHz frequency band (where OTA lives)
> ...


:clapping: Thank-you for this explanation.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Holland DPD2 Diplexer specs (PDF)


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Assuming Diplexer in place of basement splitter:
Antenna to Diplexer UHF/VHF Port
TV Room (splitter for Bolt, Bridge) to Diplexer IN Port
Upstairs room to Diplexer SAT Port

If you add a second diplexer in place of the splitter in the TV room:
Diplexer In Port (basement) to Diplexer In port (TV Room)
Diplexer UHF/VHF (TV Room) to Bolt OTA
Diplexer SAT (TV Room) to Bridge

In this configuration, you won't necessarily need a POE filter. The down-lead will have nothing but OTA frequencies on it... the drop from upstairs room to the SAT port will have nothing but MoCA on it. The drop from the TV room to the IN Port will carry both OTA an MoCA frequencies.

If you plan to run a separate coax down lead, follow the excellent suggestion of @snerd, above, for running a dedicated coax line from the antenna to the Bolt tuner (no splitters installed on that down-lead)- in which case the diplexer isn't necessary. (Note that @snerd and @krkaufman are two of the "sharper knives in the drawer" here at TCF- I've learned much from both of them).

In your current configuration, using splitters, the insertion loss tally is as follows:

Balun loss (at antenna) -3 dB
POE Filter -1.5 dB
Basement Splitter -3 dB
TV Room splitter -7 dB
and additional loss of -5 dB for every 100 feet of coax cable in the path, and -0.5 dB for any barrel connectors used to join coax runs (ie, at wall plates)

With a diplexer:
Balun loss: -3 dB
Diplexer loss (basement) -1 dB
Diplexer loss (TV) - 1 dB
and additional losses for coax cable run and connectors

The use of diplexers reduces that loss by 8.5 dB or more. A dedicated coax down lead removes all of the splitter losses.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> TV Room splitter -7 dB

This seems like the high-loss port for an unbalanced 3-way splitter; the low-loss port could have just 3.5 dB loss for the DVR route, right? And would still allow connection for FM (at ~7 dB loss). Balanced 3-way would be ~5.5 dB loss for each output.(A 2-way splitter w/ diplexer, for ANT and MoCA+FM, seems cluttery for the minor FM signal gain.)

Referencing the Holland GHS-2PRO-M specs (PDF), the insertion loss from 2 splitters would be ~8dB. The same through 2 diplexers _would_ be 2dB, but only by eliminating the FM connection. If the FM connection is a requirement, one splitter must remain and the difference drops from 6 to 3dB.

Any concerns regarding the diplexer power-passing spec, as it relates to an antenna amplifier and its power source?


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## finstead (Jan 1, 2008)

I now have enough information to write the checks to Tivo. I will then need to wait until there is a significant period of TV watcher absence in the household. I am not planning to cancel DTV until our recorded shows have been watched and all is up and running smoothly with the Bolt. BTW, I do need straight OTA upstairs, so the basement splitter remains. (Also, no ethernet access for a diplexer in the basement.) Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to my knowledge.


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## finstead (Jan 1, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> > TV Room splitter -7 dB
> 
> This seems like the high-loss port for an unbalanced 3-way splitter; the low-loss port could have just 3.5 dB loss for the DVR route, right? And would still allow connection for FM (at ~7 dB loss). Balanced 3-way would be ~5.5 dB loss for each output.(A 2-way splitter w/ diplexer, for ANT and MoCA+FM, seems cluttery for the minor FM signal gain.)
> 
> ...


I believe that I need a splitter in the basement to send the unmodified OTA signal to the TV room and to the Upstairs (in addition to the separate coax carrying the MOCA signal.) There is no ethernet access in the basement for a duplexer there. I will have to wait to see if the TV room OTA signal is sufficient for both the Bolt and the FM; if not, I can lose the splitter and use a local antenna for the FM. I will probably lose the amplifier, and, even if it were to stay, it is locally powered.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

finstead said:


> I do need straight OTA upstairs, so the basement splitter remains.


Just to be clear, the Minis don't require the raw OTA antenna signal; the DVR does all the tuning, and streams the tuned video over the home network to the requesting Mini(s). The coax port on a Mini is strictly for a MoCA network connection, if needed (i.e. if Ethernet isn't possible).

Were you looking to connect the OTA antenna signal directly to an upstairs TV? If not, the only devices requiring the antenna signal are the DVR and FM receiver.



finstead said:


> (Also, no ethernet access for a diplexer in the basement.)


Not sure where wires got crossed but a diplexer is a coax-only component; it's effectively just a pair of filters with a conjoined IN/OUT port.


krkaufman said:


> Holland DPD2 Diplexer specs (PDF)











DPD2 diplexer pass-band frequencies:
IN/OUT: 40-2150 MHz
UHF/VHF: 40-806 MHz
SAT: 950-2150 MHz​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dragging an old diagram into the thread to hopefully help illustrate your connection options in the Basement...

Your original diagram seemed to be following *Option 2: Dual Split*;

The *diplexer* *workaround*, *Option 3*, would marginally conserve signal strength enroute to the DVR & FM receiver, at the expense of no OTA signals on the upstairs coax lines, only MoCA. (The diplexer in Option 3 would be in your Basement, and the splitter Upstairs; just imagine their coax connection being more snakelike than depicted.)

*Option 4: Dedicated OTA* should mirror @snerd's suggestion, to maximize OTA signal strength to the DVR (and optionally the FM receiver), requiring a separate dedicated coax line for the OTA signal between the antenna and the DVR.










p.s. If using the diplexer workaround, whether you add the "PoE" MoCA filter on the "ANT (VHF/UHF)" port depends on if you are satisfied with the 40 dB attenuation of the diplexer stop-band, or are looking to meet the 70 dB loss requirement specified by TiVo. (Most are satisfied w/ 40 dB.)


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## finstead (Jan 1, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Dragging an old diagram into the thread to hopefully help illustrate your connection options in the Basement...
> 
> Your original diagram seemed to be following *Option 2: Dual Split*;
> 
> ...


Yet Another Final (hopefully) Proposed Configuration:

The OTA goes to a splitter in the basement; one leg of the splitter goes to the TV Room, and the other leg goes to an upstairs TV without MoCA. In the TV room, the OTA coax from the basement goes to a splitter; one leg of the splitter goes to the FM Radio, and the other leg goes to the Bolt OTA. The "Network" connection of a MM1000 is connected via a separate coax to a splitter upstairs with Two Tivo Minis; the "Device" connection is capped.

The LAN is connected to both the Bolt OTA and the MM1000 via a standalone Gigabit Switch.

Alternatively, the basement splitter and the FM radio connection could be removed. The "Device" connection on the MM1000 could be connected to the Antenna, and the upstairs splitter could additionally be connected to the non-MoCA upstairs TV. A POE filter would be placed prior to the TV room splitter.

Again, many thanks to all for bearing with my lack of sophistication!


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