# TiVo marketing VP discusses updates, "what's next."



## Todd S (Dec 19, 2006)

Whats Next for TiVo® Premiere



> Greetings from TiVo HQ.
> 
> With todays blog, Id like to share an update on TiVo Premiere. Were now about 30 days into its launch. As you probably know, we invented the DVR concept a decade ago, and with the launch of Premiere we continue to revolutionize the way people enjoy their TVs. Premiere is the first device to marry TV and Internet content within a single user-interface.
> 
> ...


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

Although general, it's good to hear they're getting updates ready. I'm very optimistic about Premiere box and the potential of what it can be.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Let's hope they address the performance and reliability issues (I sure hope it is possible with flash).

Maybe we should start a pool: How many press releases will TiVo marketing issue this year touting that they invented the DVR? 

TiVo needs to address its position versus the competition that outperforms, streams, is user drive upgradeable, boots faster, etc. 

- Rich


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, at least we got an admission of difficulties and a timeframe for improvement: "in the next 30 days".

Although I was hoping for "in the next *3* days".


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

RichB said:


> Maybe we should start a pool: How many press releases will TiVo marketing issue this year touting that they invented the DVR?


I expect the press releases will outnumber the number of bugs they fix.

After all, there are still very critical bugs oustanding for the Series 3/HD platform that TiVo has not addressed. On the plus side, we have a lot of new ads :-(


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

> We will also unleash the first of many exciting feature updates for Premiere in the coming months.


does anyone else read this to mean that it will be a few months before we get Pandora?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

ewilts said:


> After all, there are still very critical bugs oustanding for the Series 3/HD platform that TiVo has not addressed.


What are they!? I've had a TiVo HD for 3 years. I'm not aware of any critical bugs on the HD.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> What are they!? I've had a TiVo HD for 3 years. I'm not aware of any critical bugs on the HD.


I dunno about "critical" but the UI has lotsa bugs.

I'm thinking about many places where it takes action on the show one line away.

When you delete a show in a folder with several shows, it says "This group is empty" when it isn't.

I haven't found the answer to the net video Season Pass That Will Not Die.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

netringer said:


> I dunno about "critical" but the UI has lotsa bugs.
> 
> I'm thinking about many places where it takes action on the show one line away.


Never had this happen to me. 



netringer said:


> When you delete a show in a folder with several shows, it says "This group is empty" when it isn't.


Yep, that happens quite a lot. If you just wait a couple of seconds, the remaining shows reappear though. 



netringer said:


> I haven't found the answer to the net video Season Pass That Will Not Die.


Can't say this has happened to me either. If I cancel a web video season pass, it goes away.

As you said though, none of this is critical.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

ewilts said:


> After all, there are still very critical bugs oustanding for the Series 3/HD platform that TiVo has not addressed.


I know of no "critical" bugs that personally affect me. The festering analog recording problem comes to mind but fortunately I'm all digital. *Can anyone name something else truly critical?* And no, having a group briefly report being empty after a program is deleted does not qualify as a critical bug.

I do constantly encounter plenty of stupid minor bugs that could fixed in no time by some halfway competent coders. Too bad TiVo outsourced so much coding to third world countries.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> What are they!? I've had a TiVo HD for 3 years. I'm not aware of any critical bugs on the HD.


There are several. The Netflix interface can lock up the TiVo to the point of requiring the user to pull the power plug. This is has been discussed quite a bit on these forums and there is no fix - it's a critical bug, plain and simple. I no longer use the Netflix application and rely on other Netflix players (Windows 7 HTPC and a Roku) for my content.

There's also something called a "gray screen" with analog channels. I've never seen this and don't have much for details since it never affected me.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

ewilts said:


> The Netflix interface can lock up the TiVo to the point of requiring the user to pull the power plug. This is has been discussed quite a bit on these forums and there is no fix - it's a critical bug, plain and simple.


What are the steps that cause the Netflix lock-up? I've used Netflix a fair amount and haven't had a lock-up yet.


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## brewman (Jun 29, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I know of no "critical" bugs that personally affect me. The festering analog recording problem comes to mind but fortunately I'm all digital. *Can anyone name something else truly critical?* And no, having a group briefly report being empty after a program is deleted does not qualify as a critical bug.
> 
> I do constantly encounter plenty of stupid minor bugs that could fixed in no time by some halfway competent coders. Too bad TiVo outsourced so much coding to third world countries.


The TiVo HD cannot handle certain types of signal issues over cable and locks up. There's numerous threads regarding this problem including the massive one about TWC New York. Here in Gwinnett County, GA on Charter Cable the HGTV hd channel causes the problem.

I don't know what it is about a particular channel/signal that causes the TiVo to lockup, but I do know it happens and happens consistently on certain channels. My feeling is that no signal errors - short of voltage spikes that fry components - should cause the TiVo HD to cease functioning and require a hard reboot to recover.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

DaveWhittle said:


> What are the steps that cause the Netflix lock-up? I've used Netflix a fair amount and haven't had a lock-up yet.


I was wondering that myself. We use Netflix on our TivoHD almost daily with no problems. I do recall encountering an issue several months ago where I was trying to select a title in Netflix and I got a grey screen then a re-boot, but that issue has not surfaced again.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ewilts said:


> There are several. The Netflix interface can lock up the TiVo to the point of requiring the user to pull the power plug. This is has been discussed quite a bit on these forums and there is no fix - it's a critical bug, plain and simple. I no longer use the Netflix application and rely on other Netflix players (Windows 7 HTPC and a Roku) for my content.
> 
> There's also something called a "gray screen" with analog channels. I've never seen this and don't have much for details since it never affected me.


I've never had the Netflix lock happen with any of my boxes. I used it fairly regularly with my TivoHD/S3 boxes and now my Premiere boxes. The Premiere has been as rock solid with Netflix as the TiVoHD/S3 boxes were. Zero issues with it.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

DaveWhittle said:


> What are the steps that cause the Netflix lock-up? I've used Netflix a fair amount and haven't had a lock-up yet.


Use the search - it's a common problem. It certainly doesn't affect everybody, nor does it lock up all of the time for people that are affected by this bug, but it's a critical bug that impacts a subset of TiVo's subscribers.

Not every bug affects every user so telling me that it works fine for you doesn't mean the bug isn't there. For me, it's critical and renders that part of the TiVo useless. It also shattered my faith in TiVo and I've been a subscriber since the original Series 1. Given the fiasco with the Premiere, I now doubt I'll ever buy another box from TiVo again.

TiVo makes a great DVR for recording TV programming. They've managed to screw up everything else on the box.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

netringer said:


> I haven't found the answer to the net video Season Pass That Will Not Die.


Emailing TivoStephen fixed this for me. Check out the link in this thread. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=445299&highlight=mommycast


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ewilts said:


> Use the search - it's a common problem. It certainly doesn't affect everybody, nor does it lock up all of the time for people that are affected by this bug, but it's a critical bug that impacts a subset of TiVo's subscribers.
> 
> Not every bug affects every user so telling me that it works fine for you doesn't mean the bug isn't there. For me, it's critical and renders that part of the TiVo useless. It also shattered my faith in TiVo and I've been a subscriber since the original Series 1. Given the fiasco with the Premiere, I now doubt I'll ever buy another box from TiVo again.
> 
> TiVo makes a great DVR for recording TV programming. They've managed to screw up everything else on the box.


What Fiasco? My Premieres work fine.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> What Fiasco? My Premieres work fine.


Cheerleading does not actually help TiVo.

TiVo needs to look in the mirror and confront their deficiencies.
They are losing customers, they are not gaining customers.

You cannot buy enough TiVo's to save them.

TiVo needs to start building something that comes closer to the marketing hype: A true media center for a home network.

That means:

- More tuners
- DLNA Streaming
- Streaming to other TiVo's as well
- Display speed at least as good as a smart phone
- A Value proposition that includes allowing the replacement of multiple cable boxes.

The marketplace responds to marketing to some extent, but in the end the product has to live up to it. IMO, it does not.

- Rich


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## shoeboo (Nov 28, 2006)

DaveWhittle said:


> What are the steps that cause the Netflix lock-up? I've used Netflix a fair amount and haven't had a lock-up yet.


I believe if the tivo loses an internet connection while streaming it can lock up the tivo, although I am not sure if this is still a problem. I assume it only causes problems for people with very flaky internet.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

shoeboo said:


> I believe if the tivo loses an internet connection while streaming it can lock up the tivo, although I am not sure if this is still a problem. I assume it only causes problems for people with very flaky internet.


Ah, this is good to know.

Yes, if this problem still exists I hope it can be fixed on TiVo's end.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

Here is the condensed version, translating six paragraphs of marketing speak:
1) Tivo is great
2) Some users are having problems, we're working hard to fix them
3) One update pushed, another on the way soon & more in the future
4) We'll add new features as soon as we stabilize the product
5) Customers are important to us
6) We care about you


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

RichB said:


> Cheerleading does not actually help TiVo.
> 
> TiVo needs to look in the mirror and confront their deficiencies.
> They are losing customers, they are not gaining customers.
> ...


Well said, Rich. :up:


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

reneg said:


> Here is the condensed version, translating six paragraphs of marketing speak:
> 1) Tivo is great
> 2) Some users are having problems, we're working hard to fix them
> 3) One update pushed, another on the way soon & more in the future
> ...


We paid for some research that said that we can't meet the payroll without having a few customers.


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## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

RichB said:


> They are losing customers, they are not gaining customers.
> 
> You cannot buy enough TiVo's to save them.


TiVo is losing customers because their intelictual property has been stolen by just about every major player out there. And these major players do not play fair with TiVo. The shut them out by not allowing access to PPV, On demand, also such things has having to use a Tuning adapter for SDV etc etc. Plus the major players bundle their dvr service which is killer.

But all of that is starting to change. Dish network is about to be forced into a deal with licensing deal with TiVo worth north of $300M a year. Plus Dish owes about half a Billion (yes I said Billion) in back infringement fines / fees.

So I wouldn't worry to much about saving TiVo. They will be just fine.


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## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

RichB said:


> Cheerleading does not actually help TiVo.
> 
> TiVo needs to look in the mirror and confront their deficiencies.
> They are losing customers, they are not gaining customers.
> ...


Well Tivo gained a customer in us, and we neither use nor care about any of the features you mentioned. Our Premiere performs every feature for which we purchased it, and does so without any issues. So, I don't get the big hubub. The Premiere was by far the most elegant and cost-efficient solution for our needs.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Truthfully, I would rather hear from the VP of engineering rather than the VP of marketing but understand why we won't.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Rebate_King said:


> TiVo is losing customers because their intellectual property has been stolen by just about every major player out there. And these major players do not play fair with TiVo. The shut them out by not allowing access to PPV, On demand, also such things has having to use a Tuning adapter for SDV etc etc. Plus the major players bundle their dvr service which is killer.


Not really. DVR's tend to be free for the first 6 months. They they are between $15 and $20 per month. A central box with tuning adapters would allow me to save $30 per month. 


Rebate_King said:


> But all of that is starting to change. Dish network is about to be forced into a deal with licensing deal with TiVo worth north of $300M a year. Plus Dish owes about half a Billion (yes I said Billion) in back infringement fines / fees.
> 
> So I wouldn't worry to much about saving TiVo. They will be just fine.


TiVo's business plan has been heavily Dependant of lawyers for years.
How is that working out for them?
SCO tried that business model. They are gone now.

- Rich


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

RichB said:


> They are losing customers, they are not gaining customers.
> 
> .
> 
> - Rich


Correct me if I am wrong but there have been no numbers released about sales of the S4, so you don't really know that statement to be true. I am a new customer and there are several others on this forum alone. And lots of people on here who said they would not get one, actually did get one. And with the Dish deal that has been mentioned several times, I would be willing to bet TiVo is not in any need of saving.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but there have been no numbers released about sales of the S4, so you don't really know that statement to be true. I am a new customer and there are several others on this forum alone. And lots of people on here who said they would not get one, actually did get one. And with the Dish deal that has been mentioned several times, I would be willing to bet TiVo is not in any need of saving.


I cannot find newer numbers than these, but the trend has been bad:

TiVo Subscriber Losses Accelerate In 2009
TiVo Loses 131,000 Subscribers; Worst For A January Quarter

If there is good news, I expect that TiVo marketing would be touting it. They certainly like to tell how well their lawyers are doing.

- Rich


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I don't think that there's much chance of TiVo stopping the bleeding any time soon and 2010 numbers will probably show a continued subscriber shed in a down economy. Premiere isn't going to save them, at least not in its current form.

The only thing that's going to fix TiVo is a new management team that believes passionately in developing innovative products.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> The only thing that's going to fix TiVo is a new management team that believes passionately in developing innovative products.


This is the comment of the day!

Too bad that TiVo will, instead, probably p*ss away all the money they are about to get from Charlie on making "deals" that never amount to much. We might even see the return of dreadful ads on TV. And we'll see continued outsourcing of engineering to third world countries like India, Ukraine, and Mexico. Because when I think "innovative products", those countries immediately come to mind. Not!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RichB said:


> Cheerleading does not actually help TiVo.
> 
> TiVo needs to look in the mirror and confront their deficiencies.
> They are losing customers, they are not gaining customers.
> ...


Why would I buy TiVos to try and save them? I buy the TiVos for me to use. There will never be one box that does a greta job and replaces everything. There will always be boxes that excel incertain areas. I figure the best that could happen is all my boxes are condensed down to two or three. TiVo does a great job at what it does best. I have other boxes for other uses.

Personally streaming would be nice but it would need to be done differently than Moxi, which is half assed. You would need to be able to schedule recordings from the slave boxes for it to be of any use to me. But also with the Premieres, and the fast 90mbs transfer rates, I have no need for streaming. At least as long as FiOS does not restrict any transfers. Currently there are no restrictions, but of course that could change.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> Why would I buy TiVos to try and save them? I buy the TiVos for me to use. There will never be one box that does a greta job and replaces everything. There will always be boxes that excel incertain areas. I figure the best that could happen is all my boxes are condensed down to two or three. TiVo does a great job at what it does best. I have other boxes for other uses.


There is nothing wrong with that. At TiVo, they should try to make products so that you do not need the other boxes so they could sell you 10 or 12


> Personally streaming would be nice but it would need to be done differently than Moxi, which is half assed.


How so?


> You would need to be able to schedule recordings from the slave boxes for it to be of any use to me. But also with the Premieres, and the fast 90mbs transfer rates, I have no need for streaming. At least as long as FiOS does not restrict any transfers. Currently there are no restrictions, but of course that could change.


Making extra copies is not a good use of disk space.
As I understand it, he copy control comes into play with pay content on FIOS. Other providers are at the mercy of the content provider which can include the majority of recording. This makes the TiVo implementation useless.

I think you are missing the point. No matter how well it serves you, TiVo cannot maintain a viable business when it is losing 20% of its subscribers per year. That means less service fees and less advertising dollars which leads to layoffs and less product development. Although, sometimes layoffs can be beneficial 

TiVo needs to move the ball forward and it needs to do so with more than marketing. All cable providers are increasing their box rental fees. This represents an opportunity for TiVo. Moxi figured that out.

It is one thing to no longer lead the industry. It is another to fall behind.

- Rich


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RichB said:


> There is nothing wrong with that. At TiVo, they should try to make products so that you do not need the other boxes so they could sell you 10 or 12
> 
> How so?
> 
> ...


Having to get out of bed just to schedule a recording is a waste of my time. But that is what you have to do with Moxi with the Moxi mates. If you have a Moxi Mate in your bedroom. And you want to schedule something. You need to get out of bed and go to the main Moxi unit. Turn on the TV and schedule the recording with that(or go online, but either way you can't do it from the TV where the Moxi mate is which is where it would make the most sense). There is no way that model is better than what TiVo has. Having separate boxes with separate tuners is much better, even if it costs more. Since only being able to program recordings from the main box would be a PITA.

As far as pay content on FIOS, with TiVo that does not exist since you don't have access to FiOS VOD with the TiVo. So while I do enjoy nothing being restricted on FiOS, it really makes no sense. The premium channels should at least be restricted. While Comcast in my area is at the other end of the spectrum with the majority of content protected from being transferred.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

RichB said:


> TiVo's business plan has been heavily Dependant of lawyers for years.
> How is that working out for them?
> SCO tried that business model. They are gone now.
> 
> - Rich


The difference is that SCO didn't have rights to any of the intellectual property they claimed to. TiVo does.

It's one thing to be a patent troll. It's quite another when you actually own intellectual property, are actually building and selling technology designed around that property (rather than just holding onto patents), and are fighting to keep others from using it without your consent or licensing it from you.

I think TiVo has some issues they need to work on; however, I don't agree with the above argument.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Todd S said:


> Whats Next for TiVo® Premiere


It would have been nice for this kind of announcement with the HD issues I had for close to a year.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

RichB said:


> No matter how well it serves you, TiVo cannot maintain a viable business when it is losing 20% of its subscribers per year. That means less service fees and less advertising dollars which leads to layoffs and less product development. Although, sometimes layoffs can be beneficial
> 
> TiVo needs to move the ball forward and it needs to do so with more than marketing. All cable providers are increasing their box rental fees. This represents an opportunity for TiVo. Moxi figured that out.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you said in a previous post about TiVo would be promoting high sales like they tout their lawyer wins... but I am optimistic that things are taking an upturn for Tivo....

like I said, I am a new customer, and there are several new customers on this board... and it has only been a month or so, the S4's could be selling like hot cakes...

and I posted awhile back about TiVo having lots of ads on Howard Stern, and everyone of those ads are focused on how expensive your cable box really is, hidden fees etc...

and even if they lose 20% of their subs, if they gain whatever they gain from the Dish deal, they will be sitting pretty


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> I agree with what you said in a previous post about TiVo would be promoting high sales like they tout their lawyer wins... but I am optimistic that things are taking an upturn for Tivo....
> 
> like I said, I am a new customer, and there are several new customers on this board... and it has only been a month or so, the S4's could be selling like hot cakes...
> 
> ...


I hope you are right.

The performance is pretty bad. It speaks to a poor job at selecting the platform and doing the basic work to validate the architecture.

Introduction of state of the art hardware/software looks more like the iPhone, iPad, and Droid.

I also hope TiVo can fix the performance problems with some minor software changes. The first thing they need to do is to realize what an egg they laid. 

- Rich


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

You don't just pick an architecture and put the device out the door in a month. There is a long lead time on these devices.

The Premiere architecture is more than powerful enough for a DVR. It's the software that needs to be further developed to optimize it's use.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> You don't just pick an architecture and put the device out the door in a month. There is a long lead time on these devices.
> 
> The Premiere architecture is more than powerful enough for a DVR. It's the software that needs to be further developed to optimize it's use.


The hardware should be quite capable since others use it to create reasonably performing DVR solutions.

If it is the software, are you refering to the Flash implementation that was specially designed and optimized for the Broadcomm hardware?

From the TiVo FAQ:


> The Premiere does not use a Flash browser plug-in like users have on their PCs, but a specialized Stagecraft application environment optimized by Broadcom for the hardware. TiVo, Broadcom, and Adobe continue to work to provide the best possible Flash experience.


I hope they are working hard 

- Rich


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

The FCC just gave the MPAA the authority to shut off analog outputs. The MPAA will probably figure out that FIOS allows copying and shut that down too.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

vstone said:


> The FCC just gave the MPAA the authority to shut off analog outputs. The MPAA will probably figure out that FIOS allows copying and shut that down too.


I expect the content providers to rear there ugly head.

- Rich


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> Having to get out of bed just to schedule a recording is a waste of my time. But that is what you have to do with Moxi with the Moxi mates. If you have a Moxi Mate in your bedroom. And you want to schedule something. You need to get out of bed and go to the main Moxi unit. Turn on the TV and schedule the recording with that(or go online, but either way you can't do it from the TV where the Moxi mate is which is where it would make the most sense). There is no way that model is better than what TiVo has. Having separate boxes with separate tuners is much better, even if it costs more. Since only being able to program recordings from the main box would be a PITA.
> 
> As far as pay content on FIOS, with TiVo that does not exist since you don't have access to FiOS VOD with the TiVo. So while I do enjoy nothing being restricted on FiOS, it really makes no sense. The premium channels should at least be restricted. While Comcast in my area is at the other end of the spectrum with the majority of content protected from being transferred.


i am pretty sure that Moxi mates, were going to be fully functional in the next release. It was one of there top priorities. If Moxi releases a 6 tuner version, premier wont stand a chance.


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## jwagner010 (Dec 8, 2007)

Having had a TIVO for over 6 years I am a big fan. I bought the S4 and love it. But I like many are looking elsewhere for my next DVR beyond the S4. While the S4 is a good step forward it still has many short comings, for me (everyone is different) I would just like three things:

1) DLNA
2) Streaming between Tivos. Yes I know I can transfer but TWC protects all the shows and prevents this. Many would say this is not Tivo's doing, but from a users perspective it just doesnt work, regardless of who is at fault. Tivo needs to get a work around.
3) Apps/Widgets - The SDK is a bunch of garbage. Get a real SDK out there and adopt an App store so others can help take the Tivo DVR to the next level.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> i am pretty sure that Moxi mates, were going to be fully functional in the next release. It was one of there top priorities. If Moxi releases a 6 tuner version, premier wont stand a chance.


You still can't transfer the content to a PC with Moxi. which is something I use on a daily basis with TiVo. I will not consider using any DVR without that feature.


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## Dark Helmet (Sep 15, 2006)

vstone said:


> The FCC just gave the MPAA the authority to shut off analog outputs. The MPAA will probably figure out that FIOS allows copying and shut that down too.


The MPAA can't shut off any arbitrary analog output; that restriction only applies to newly-released movies within a 90-day window. That to me sounds like VOD/PPV, which AFAIK is already marked "Do not copy" for FiOS customers (I'm a FiOS customer, but here I'm only going on what I've heard; I've never ordered any PPV or VOD).

Since it's the Motion Picture Association of America, I don't think they're going to care about me copying episodes of "Burn Notice".


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Dark Helmet said:


> The MPAA can't shut off any arbitrary analog output; that restriction only applies to newly-released movies within a 90-day window. That to me sounds like VOD/PPV, which AFAIK is already marked "Do not copy" for FiOS customers (I'm a FiOS customer, but here I'm only going on what I've heard; I've never ordered any PPV or VOD).
> ...


Depends on if the permission just granted by the FCC was careful to be that specific.

The copy flag was supposed to only apply to "premium" (movie) content but that was taken to mean anything on a premium channel, even if it was a 25 year old movie...ie. explain why the 6 year old BBC shows on HD theater have a no copy flag.


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## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

vstone said:


> The FCC just gave the MPAA the authority to shut off analog outputs. The MPAA will probably figure out that FIOS allows copying and shut that down too.


My understanding was that this applied primarily/only to the analog outputs of Blu-Ray players. Are we now saying that it can apply to all analog outputs, from any device? That would make very little sense - though I'd also find it aboninable on a Blu-Ray player.

I don't have any display devices with digital inputs. So unless the FCC or MPAA are planning to give me about $2000+ to replace my TV and projector with HDMI capable units, this would make my Tivo and DVD player useless to me.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> As far as pay content on FIOS, with TiVo that does not exist since you don't have access to FiOS VOD with the TiVo. So while I do enjoy nothing being restricted on FiOS, it really makes no sense. The premium channels should at least be restricted.


I don't understand your position at all.

Let's assume that by "premium channels" you mean something like HBO. If I'm a subscriber, why *shouldn't* I be able to transfer an HBO movie from one box to another in my household? I could have just as easily recorded that movie on any of my boxes, why should I suffer after the fact? What purpose does such a restriction serve?

TiVo already uses TSN to prevent this copying between boxes that aren't in the same household. Why isn't that sufficient?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't understand your position at all.
> 
> Let's assume that by "premium channels" you mean something like HBO. If I'm a subscriber, why *shouldn't* I be able to transfer an HBO movie from one box to another in my household? I could have just as easily recorded that movie on any of my boxes, why should I suffer after the fact? What purpose does such a restriction serve?
> 
> TiVo already uses TSN to prevent this copying between boxes that aren't in the same household. Why isn't that sufficient?


This has nothing to do with TiVo. the content provider makes the decision. They could tell FiOS to block it if they wanted to. tiVo has no say in it.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Videodrome said:


> i am pretty sure that Moxi mates, were going to be fully functional in the next release. It was one of there top priorities. If Moxi releases a 6 tuner version, premier wont stand a chance.


A single M cable card will only support 2 tuners. Period. So anything over 2 would be for over-the-air-only. Most people don't even use OTA (*I* do, because the picture quality is SO much better than the recompressed junk on cable). And those that do probably don't have THAT much interest it what is on the few OTA stations. I can see 3 tuners, but after that, it is probably just a waste.
----
EDIT: I was wrong- an M card *will* support up to 6 streams, not just two. Of course, this might also be highly limited by a tuning adapter once SDV takes over...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

crxssi said:


> A single M cable card will only support 2 tuners. Period...


I believe that is incorrect. A single Tuning Adapter can support only 2 tuners. Is that what you're thinking of?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jwagner010 said:


> 1) DLNA
> 2) Streaming between Tivos. Yes I know I can transfer but TWC protects all the shows and prevents this. Many would say this is not Tivo's doing, but from a users perspective it just doesnt work, regardless of who is at fault. Tivo needs to get a work around.
> 3) Apps/Widgets - The SDK is a bunch of garbage. Get a real SDK out there and adopt an App store so others can help take the Tivo DVR to the next level.


+1 :up:

Just add the ability to save/store/move/backup/cloud/whatever your settings, passes, and ratings, so they are not lost with every DVR failure or upgrade and we are set (well, after the crashing and ultra-slow HDUI are fixed).


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

crxssi said:


> A single M cable card will only support 2 tuners. Period.


According to the "highly authoritative"  Wikipedia:

_A "Multi-Stream" CableCARD (M-Card) can decode up to six channels simultaneously._​


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> According to the "highly authoritative"  Wikipedia:
> 
> _A "Multi-Stream" CableCARD (M-Card) can decode up to six channels simultaneously._​


I stand corrected! Thanks for the info. Will edit my post...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The moxi already has three tuners wrorking with one cable card.


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> I believe that is incorrect. A single Tuning Adapter can support only 2 tuners. Is that what you're thinking of?


Even then, I thought the Motorola TAs could support up to 6 tuners (same as a M-card), but the Cisco TAs could only support 2 tuners?


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

DaveWhittle said:


> What are the steps that cause the Netflix lock-up? I've used Netflix a fair amount and haven't had a lock-up yet.


Having a TivoHD is a big part of it. The Netflix streaming locks up on that box WAY more than a Series 3. It's never locked up on the three Series 3 we had, but it happens all the time on my Mother-In-Law's THD. Ditto friends with THD units. It seems like it's way less Netflix-stable than the Series 3.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

curiousgeorge said:


> Having a TivoHD is a big part of it. The Netflix streaming locks up on that box WAY more than a Series 3. It's never locked up on the three Series 3 we had, but it happens all the time on my Mother-In-Law's THD. Ditto friends with THD units. It seems like it's way less Netflix-stable than the Series 3.


Before we tar and feather the TiVo HD for crimes against humanity, it has to be said that Netflix works fine for some people on the HD. I've had a HD for 3 years and use Netflix extensively on it and I have never once suffered a Netflix lock-up or crash of any kind. From my perspective, it's perfectly stable.

I can already hear the rustling in the bushes as the usually angst-ridden mob in here puff out their chests and get ready to call me a fanboy for saying something good about TiVo again! However, if it makes you feel any better, my Premiere XL has started rebooting on me regularly! Seems to happen when the unit is under stress, recording shows and performing playback and then a web video starts to download. A moderate time after I see the blue light go on, the recording I'm watching freezes for 5-10 seconds, then recovers and about 10-20 seconds later, the XL reboots!

I've reported the issue to TiVo who have now escalated it up to engineering. These reboots only started happening recently and I think it may have something to do with the fact that my disk is quite full, loaded with HD recordings - about 110 hours worth. The circumstances around the reboots are pretty predictable. It only happens when I'm watching a recording while 1 or 2 tuners are being used to record new shows and a web video starts to download. It happens whether I'm using the HD or SD menus.

However, I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water! I'll let TiVo do their thing and we'll see if they can fix the problem. If they can't fix it directly, I hope the forthcoming updates help. Either way, for now, I'll suffer the inconveniences and soldier on. I still love my TiVo.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

chrispitude said:


> orangeboy said:
> 
> 
> > crxssi said:
> ...


Ah. I think that's right. I seems I have heard that the Cisco TAs have this limitation.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TrueTurbo said:


> Before we tar and feather the TiVo HD for crimes against humanity, it has to be said that Netflix works fine for some people on the HD. I've had a HD for 3 years and use Netflix extensively on it and I have never once suffered a Netflix lock-up or crash of any kind. From my perspective, it's perfectly stable.
> 
> I can already hear the rustling in the bushes as the usually angst-ridden mob in here puff out their chests and get ready to call me a fanboy for saying something good about TiVo again! ...


Actually it isn't TiVo you are saying something good about here it's your ISP and your home network. If you don't believe that pull your Ethernet cable while you are watching Netflix and see how well your TiVO will (not) recover.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

RoyK said:


> Actually it isn't TiVo you are saying something good about here it's your ISP and your home network. If you don't believe that pull your Ethernet cable while you are watching Netflix and see how well your TiVO will (not) recover.


It depends, i think the tolerance is about 4 seconds of no data, then it crashes. I unknowingly disconnected it while watching tivo , then realized and it survived. So i think there is so leeway. However Rule 1 of programming is expect fails and garbage data. Netflix should just wait for the network to return with the 'fetching' screen.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> It depends, i think the tolerance is about 4 seconds of no data, then it crashes. I unknowingly disconnected it while watching tivo , then realized and it survived. So i think there is so leeway. However Rule 1 of programming is expect fails and garbage data. Netflix should just wait for the network to return with the 'fetching' screen.


Absolutely! Any software that depends upon a perfectly performing external environment is very poorly designed.

It should, after several seconds, offer the choice of continuing to wait or exiting Netflix back to TiVo Central or Now Playing.


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> What Fiasco? My Premieres work fine.


That gos for me too!!:up:


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## ldobson (Jan 18, 2004)

angel35 said:


> That gos for me too!!:up:


Mine too!, Absolutely no problems since the last update.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

ldobson said:


> Mine too!, Absolutely no problems since the last update.


Mine is so fast and quiet. I turned off the front LED lights, and when the room is dark and everything turned off, the Tivo looks like a powered down dvd player. Completely quiet.


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## jwagner010 (Dec 8, 2007)

Just froze. Rebooting. Errrrr.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

"Jim Denney is VP and *GM of Product Marketing* for TiVo Inc"

I thought that was Pony? Or is Jim Bob's boss?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

SullyND said:


> "Jim Denney is VP and *GM of Product Marketing* for TiVo Inc"
> 
> I thought that was Pony? Or is Jim Bob's boss?


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=22926
"Director of Product Marketing
TiVo Inc."


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