# Custom User Created Folders



## TexasGrillChef

I would love for us to be able to CREATE our own folders to store our recordings, and in the SP or recording setup, we could preset which folder the show would be placed after recording.

I request this, because I have one TiVo that records nothing but movies on all of the various movie cable channels. (HBO, Starz, Encore, etc..)

Because movies are NOT series... They aren't put into folders.

Thus my NPL is now 200 files long. and takes forever to thumb through!

If I were able to create my own folders, I would create a folder for HBO, one for Starz, another one for each of the Encore stations, etc... and then the movies for each of those networks would be in their folders. Making the NPL much easier to view

Same way folders make it easier to view our SP's for series TV shows we watch.

In the minimum, we should maybe have at least a "MOVIE" folder where the TiVo will put all the movies we record. Since the TiVo is smart enough to know if what we are recording is a Movie or a Series.

TGC


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## javabird

I agree. This has been a highly requested item for a long time.


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## bradleys

It has been highly requested, but not likely to be delivered.

TiVo's design strategy is about developing a highly usable user interface not a highly customizable user interface - and in most cases the two are mutually exclusive.

I think the best we can hope for are profiles some time in the future. My opinion; if it takes screens of settings it isn't within their strategy.

I am actually very surprised they added the default recording settings and that was really just one page for one default setting. It is something that TiVo users access daily, so that may have motivated the functionality.

But anytime anyone wants some type of highly customized functionality, my answer is going to be the same... It goes against the TiVo design strategy and will not be part of their future state as I see it.


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## Dan203

I also think it's unlikely. The "folders" you see in My Shows are not actually folders, they're groups. They're shows that are grouped together based on common guide data. In most cases it's the show's ID, but it can also group shows based on Wish Lists, guides, Amazon purchases, etc... And in some cases there is an overlap and the same show will appear in multiple groups.

That being said there is some speculation that TiVo is working on additional sorting options that would group shows based on broader categories to make the My Shows list easier to navigate. Several of the Roamio reviews from last year mentioned a 3 tier My Shows list. (the current one being 2 tier) So we may get some better sorting options in the future.


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## tomhorsley

I'd be happy with one custom folder named "My Older Shows" and a button I can press to say "OK, move all the recordings stashed directly under "My Shows" to "My Older Shows" now. That way I could easily see newer stuff and easily page through the list to get down to suggestions, and other things that are on the bottom.


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## jerryc

I would be content with a Season Pass sort order for My Shows, where all shows are ordered in the order of the current set of season passes (no need to complicate things by worrying about what happens when a season pass is deleted). Of course, you'd still want shows sorted by date within a show/wishlist.

Even better, if Season Pass sort order is selected and groups are on, all non-Season Pass recordings are put into a Manual Recording group.


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## swong_88

I just created a new thread about this very thing. Maybe Tivo will listen if there are not more people here asking for it. Creating new folders does not have to be a multi screen process though. Maybe they can just leave the Season Pass menu the same and let it record. It will usually create a group named after the show. What I want is to be able to create another group inside here where I can manually move episodes to that folder. For example, let's say that I have recorded all 10 seasons of Friends... It is huge pain to have to scroll though over 200 episodes to look for the one that you want to watch.. If they allowed to me to create groups named Season 1, Season 2, etc.... Then allowed to manually move the episodes to their proper places, that would be enough....

Just like the original poster, TexasGrillChef, wrote.. All of that can be accomplish post processing. After the movie has been recorded, you can move that movie to whatever group they want... Allow us to create an HBO, Starz or Cinamax group so that we can arrange and organize it the way we want it to look....


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## Arcady

I wouldn't mind being able to create my own folders, but I wonder why anyone would sort them into HBO, Showtime, etc folders. Who cares what channel it was recorded on? Wouldn't you rather sort them into Comedy, Drama, SciFi, etc?


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## swong_88

No, I can see why someone would want to separate them out into channels if that is what they are use to.. . The OP seemed to watch almost all of their shows on the premium channels. They probably wanted a group structure like:

Under the HBO group:
True Blood
Game of Thrones
The LeftOvers
Movie X
Movie Y

Under the Starz Group:
Outlanders
Movie A
Movie B

etc...

It is just to reduce the clutter on the top most level.. They know something was recorded from HBO, so they go to the HBO folder to look for it rather than having to scan through everything. It is all a matter of preference... :up:


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## trip1eX

swong_88 said:


> No, I can see why someone would want to separate them out into channels if that is what they are use to.. . The OP seemed to watch almost all of their shows on the premium channels. They probably wanted a group structure like:
> 
> Under the HBO group:
> True Blood
> Game of Thrones
> The LeftOvers
> Movie X
> Movie Y
> 
> Under the Starz Group:
> Outlanders
> Movie A
> Movie B
> 
> etc...
> 
> It is just to reduce the clutter on the top most level.. They know something was recorded from HBO, so they go to the HBO folder to look for it rather than having to scan through everything. It is all a matter of preference... :up:


Yeah but the part that is a bit odd is imagining anyone actually remembering what movie was recorded on what channel especially as they pile up which is the reason for the folders idea in the first place.


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## jrtroo

It is for newbies- not for those fully indoctrinated into Tivo recording everything for them. My guess, the poster still probably watches a lot of live TV!


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## swong_88

jrtroo said:


> It is for newbies- not for those fully indoctrinated into Tivo recording everything for them. My guess, the poster still probably watches a lot of live TV!


I don't agree with this.. For kids, they don't like to delete their cartoons. They just want it there so that they can watch the episode again when ever they want.. My kids have almost 100 episodes of My Little Pony recorded. If they want to watch the first episode that Tivo recorded, they have to scroll through 100 episodes.. Even with that Channel down button to go down by pages, this takes a long time.. And when new episodes come out, there are going to be even more episodes to scroll through.. If we could create our own group within the My Little Pony group, something like Season 1, Season 2, etc... It would make things more manageable.. It makes things look cleaner and not as cluttered...

Even like the OP, they like to record movies like mad from all of the premium channels. Maybe separating out to HBO, Starz, etc... is something they want to do to help them reduce clutter.. Another poster said they would want to create a Comedy, Action, Drama group instead.. It is a way to manually group things. Nothing newbie about this.. :up:


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## tomhorsley

I'd be happy if I could just move older shows to an "older shows" group so the top level list isn't so long.


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## jrtroo

You know you can go to the bottom of any list instantly, right?


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## swong_88

jrtroo said:


> You know you can go to the bottom of any list instantly, right?


What if you wanted to go show that is in the middle of your list of over 100 recorded shows?? I mean that Channel Down button helps and maybe going all the way to the bottom helps but the ability to create another group is better.. :up:


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## trip1eX

swong_88 said:


> What if you wanted to go show that is in the middle of your list of over 100 recorded shows?? I mean that Channel Down button helps and maybe going all the way to the bottom helps but the ability to create another group is better.. :up:


Well if it was episode 50 on a list of 100 then it would take 5 button presses.

If you had a 4 folders of 25 episodes each it would take 3 button presses.

In general it seems to save 2 button presses. But it can save up to 4 or 5 and it can actually cost you an extra button press.

But to save these button presses you have to spend time creating your folders and organizing your shows. If it did it automatically that would be another story.


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## swong_88

trip1eX said:


> Well if it was episode 50 on a list of 100 then it would take 5 button presses.
> 
> If you had a 4 folders of 25 episodes each it would take 3 button presses.
> 
> In general it seems to save 2 button presses. But it can save up to 4 or 5 and it can actually cost you an extra button press.
> 
> But to save these button presses you have to spend time creating your folders and organizing your shows. If it did it automatically that would be another story.


I can increase the numbers right.. I have over 300 1/2 hundred shows recorded... With shows in syndication, who says that they will record in order... It is also just clutter... If I want to try watch an episode of the Big Band Theory recorded named The Lizard-Spock Expansion and I don't quite remember when it was recorded.. Imagine having to scan through all of those episodes looking for it... I can't exactly just hit channel down because I have to look through all of the episodes on the screen to see if it is there before I hit channel down again.... By the 3rd or 4th click down, you are already going blind trying to figure out where the episode is... By this time, it is now annoying... If I had the ability to create folders, I could separate out all of my episodes into Seasons maybe. (20-25 episodes in each group). Or maybe separate them out into my Favorite episodoes so I can easily go and watch Sheldon and Raj playing Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock.. There are so many things you can do with this... It is just a way to reduce clutter when you enter My Shows or go into the initial Group named after the TV show.. Make it easier for me to find what I want to watch. With that Roamio Pro or someone who installed an expandable hard drive, there can be a lot of shows recorded.. Not having the ability to group them to way I want them kind of sucks... :up:


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## trip1eX

swong_88 said:


> I can increase the numbers right.. I have over 300 1/2 hundred shows recorded... With shows in syndication, who says that they will record in order... It is also just clutter... If I want to try watch an episode of the Big Band Theory recorded named The Lizard-Spock Expansion and I don't quite remember when it was recorded.. Imagine having to scan through all of those episodes looking for it... I can't exactly just hit channel down because I have to look through all of the episodes on the screen to see if it is there before I hit channel down again.... By the 3rd or 4th click down, you are already going blind trying to figure out where the episode is... By this time, it is now annoying... If I had the ability to create folders, I could separate out all of my episodes into Seasons maybe. (20-25 episodes in each group). Or maybe separate them out into my Favorite episodoes so I can easily go and watch Sheldon and Raj playing Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock.. There are so many things you can do with this... It is just a way to reduce clutter when you enter My Shows or go into the initial Group named after the TV show.. Make it easier for me to find what I want to watch. With that Roamio Pro or someone who installed an expandable hard drive, there can be a lot of shows recorded.. Not having the ability to group them to way I want them kind of sucks... :up:


300 is alot. Who says you remember what folder a show is in when you have 300 episodes?

If you can remember the name maybe the simpler solution is to let you sort episode names alphabetically like you can do with the names of a show or movie.

On the whole though the main problem with the idea is probably user demand. What's the percentage hoarding 300 episodes of a show?


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## lpwcomp

The limitations of the Mini have made the obvious solution - move everything that can be moved to your computer where you can organize things as you like - less viable.


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## swong_88

trip1eX said:


> 300 is alot. Who says you remember what folder a show is in when you have 300 episodes?
> 
> If you can remember the name maybe the simpler solution is to let you sort episode names alphabetically like you can do with the names of a show or movie.
> 
> On the whole though the main problem with the idea is probably user demand. What's the percentage hoarding 300 episodes of a show?


That is true that being able to sort by the name of the episode would be good. Unfortunately, Tivo cannot do that either.. It can only sort by the name of the Groups. If you go into a group, sorting reverts back to sorting by date only. The options of pressing 'A' or 'C' to change sorting disappears...



lpwcomp said:


> The limitations of the Mini have made the obvious solution - move everything that can be moved to your computer where you can organize things as you like - less viable.


I don't have Tivo Desktop and I don't want to store things on my computer.. That is what the DVR is for..


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## lpwcomp

swong_88 said:


> That is true that being able to sort by the name of the episode would be good. Unfortunately, Tivo cannot do that either.. It can only sort by the name of the Groups. If you go into a group, sorting reverts back to sorting by date only. The options of pressing 'A' or 'C' to change sorting disappears...
> 
> I don't have Tivo Desktop and I don't want to store things on my computer.. That is what the DVR is for..


That's why the word "let" was in his post, acknowledging that the capability doesn't currently exist, although it probably should have been phrased "*would be* to let" rather than "*is* to let".


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## lpwcomp

swong_88 said:


> I don't have Tivo Desktop and I don't want to store things on my computer.. That is what the DVR is for..


No DVR, including the TiVo, is designed for permanent storage of a video library.


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## swong_88

lpwcomp said:


> That's why the word "let" was in his post, acknowledging that the capability doesn't currently exist, although it probably should have been phrased "*would be* to let" rather than "*is* to let".


Understood.... Just trying to make enough noise where a Tivo Rep might read this thread and decide to put it into the next software release.. :up:


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## jrtroo

swong_88 said:


> Understood.... Just trying to make enough noise where a Tivo Rep might read this thread and decide to put it into the next software release.. :up:


Good luck with that. Customized folders was an old request back when I formally joined this forum.

Don't get me wrong, I would have no issue with them. I just think that few folks would actually use them.


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## lpwcomp

jrtroo said:


> Good luck with that. Customized folders was an old request back when I formally joined this forum.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I would have no issue with them. I just think that few folks would actually use them.


That particular post was about sorting options, not custom "folders"*. From a technical standpoint, much easier to do. Whether it makes it more likely that it will be implemented is another matter.

* I put the term "folders" in quotes because they aren't really folders in the hierarchical file system sense, where a folder is usually just a graphical representation of a directory. They are logical groups, which is what they are called. They chose a somewhat misleading graphic, probably because it was familiar to most users.


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## swong_88

lpwcomp said:


> That particular post was about sorting options, not custom "folders"*. From a technical standpoint, much easier to do. Whether it makes it more likely that it will be implemented is another matter.
> 
> * I put the term "folders" in quotes because they aren't really folders in the hierarchical file system sense, where a folder is usually just a graphical representation of a directory. They are logical groups, which is what they are called. They chose a somewhat misleading graphic, probably because it was familiar to most users.


Those 'logical groups' are basically just glorified filters.. Being able to customize a filter is not that much harder then doing sorting. Still don't see what the difficulty is.. Their default logical groups are already doing some kind of filter to properly group TV shows into the group named after the TV Show. It should not be that difficult for them to allow to me to create another group and filter so that it pulls in all episodes from a Season. Or allow me to label another show that it groups the way I want... That Kids group they have right seems to group all Cartoons in there.. My kids also watch Too Cute on the Animal Planet which will not be grouped into the current Kids Group. I just don't understand why all of the resistant. When they created the Tivo Mini, they should have known that this kind of capability was going to be needed. Everyone in the family is now sharing a single Tivo Unit on most occasions. With the Roamio Plus and Pro being able to store 150 hours and 300 hours of HD material respectively, they have to allow the user to be able to do this. You can sense they are already moving in that directions since that summer update included these new Groups like Kids, Movies, Sports, TV Shows, etc... People are starting to complain. I don't want to have to sift through all of my kids shows to get to mine.. Allow the user the ability to filter and group the programs as we please... :up:


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## lpwcomp

swong_88 said:


> Those 'logical groups' are basically just glorified filters.. Being able to customize a filter is not that much harder then doing sorting. Still don't see what the difficulty is.. Their default logical groups are already doing some kind of filter to properly group TV shows into the group named after the TV Show. It should not be that difficult for them to allow to me to create another group and filter so that it pulls in all episodes from a Season. Or allow me to label another show that it groups the way I want... That Kids group they have right seems to group all Cartoons in there.. My kids also watch Too Cute on the Animal Planet which will not be grouped into the current Kids Group. I just don't understand why all of the resistant. When they created the Tivo Mini, they should have known that this kind of capability was going to be needed. Everyone in the family is now sharing a single Tivo Unit on most occasions. With the Roamio Plus and Pro being able to store 150 hours and 300 hours of HD material respectively, they have to allow the user to be able to do this. You can sense they are already moving in that directions since that summer update included these new Groups like Kids, Movies, Sports, TV Shows, etc... People are starting to complain. I don't want to have to sift through all of my kids shows to get to mine.. Allow the user the ability to filter and group the programs as we please... :up:


What you are ignoring is that both groups and categories are based on data that is already associated with the recording.

What may be the easiest to implement, and indeed may be something they already have in the works, is user created categories that can be added to a recording and (hopefully) Season Passes. This is also the best way to reduce the clutter. since a recording can be associated with multiple groups and user created groups actually add to the clutter of the main NPL.

I suppose another way would be to implement sub-groups, with each level having its own "Group by" option".


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## swong_88

lpwcomp said:


> What you are ignoring is that both groups and categories are based on data that is already associated with the recording.
> 
> What may be the easiest to implement, and indeed may be something they already have in the works, is user created categories that can be added to a recording and (hopefully) Season Passes. This is also the best way to reduce the clutter. since a recording can be associated with multiple groups and user created groups actually add to the clutter of the main NPL.
> 
> I suppose another way would be to implement sub-groups, with each level having its own "Group by" option".


Exactly.. Just something.. User created categories or doing sub-groups would also be good as long as the user has some control. We just need something since the entire family is not recording on the same DVR and with all of the hours that can be recorded, many are going to start keeping recordings. I am now more inclined to keep the Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld on my DVR since there is space.. :up:


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## Series3Sub

As part of the TiVo vs. Echostar settlement (which really was to Echostar's advantage), they exchanged technology and each (I believe Echostar got all TiVo tech) got lifetime rights for the others patents (TiVo getting "some" Echostar tech). Considering I really do enjoy and use Custom Folders in Dish DVR's for years, I sure hope TiVo got some of that particular tech. It would be nice, as the breadth of programming recorded by TiVo's can certainly use Custom Folders, but if they did not get that tech, then TiVo may be worried about violating an Echostar patent should they try bother to develop that . Irony?

I'll add that some months AFTER the settlement, Dish added a "Restore" feature for erased recordings. What timing .

I have to say, as much as TiVo is really a good product, it is true as many TiVo Lovers have posted on this forum that TiVo has stopped innovating for a very long time. The Hopper product at launch and now with a plethora of new innovative features just released really does show how TiVo, in some ways, is still back in 1999. Yes, the introduction of hardware and no-brainer stuff like the Stream and way too late Mini are good, but TiVo still functions pretty much as it did on the old days. Real innovation is taking place at other places, mostly at DirecTV and Dish, not so much at the baggy eyed cable companies who don't even seem to know that innovation exists and where TiVo is the gold, if not platinum, standard among clunky MSO DVR technology.

Of course, innovation costs a lot of money, and with the Dia del los Muertos of TiVo patents fast approaching, Tom Rogers has probably made a wise fiscal decision on where to catch-up and where NOT to innovate, with his words "exit strategy" perhaps answering the often non or lite innovative claim on the TiVo of today.

Man, the new Hopper features just blow by TiVo, and yet, it should never have, but, then again, the innovative people who were there when TiVo began, aren't there any more, and one innovated with the Roku product, truly the best streaming box with the greatest, yet most simple, remote control. Ah, what could have been at Alviso.


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## Dan203

Dish and DirecTV have some advantages over TiVo when it comes to innovation. Because TiVo is a CableCARD device they have to clear a LOT of their features with Cable Labs. Dish and DirecTV are also providers with their own agreements with the content owners, so they don't have to deal with a middleman. They can do pretty much whatever they want and if the content owners don't like it then they can just say "sue me". Which is exactly what Fox is doing right now with Dish in an effort to stop their automatic commercial skip feature and their built in SlingBox functionality. 

As for custome folders... Not going to happen. They added a new 3 pane view to My Shows that allows you to filter shows by category. And I still have hope that some day they'll add user profiles so multiple people can use a single TiVo and only see the stuff they specifically requested.


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## trip1eX

User created folders is an example of the great innovation going over at DISH and DTV? Tivo should be running for the hills.

This is one of those features for the hardcore Tivo users (digital hoarders) that the rest of us could are less about.


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## bradleys

I agree... Any function that requires ongoing user maintenance will be ignored by most customers. I would say 90% of tivo users wouldn't bother to maintain custom folders over an extended period of time.

That is not saying a foldering strategy that requires minimal user maintenance wouldn't bring value - but even there I think the average user would ignore or disable it.

TiVo added the filtering menu and you can believe they are tracking how many people keep it, disable it and actually use it to find content.

I still have it up, but never drill into it... I suspect I am a pretty "average" tivo user.


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## Diana Collins

Series3Sub said:


> As part of the TiVo vs. Echostar settlement (which really was to Echostar's advantage), they exchanged technology and each (I believe Echostar got all TiVo tech) got lifetime rights for the others patents (TiVo getting "some" Echostar tech). Considering I really do enjoy and use Custom Folders in Dish DVR's for years, I sure hope TiVo got some of that particular tech. It would be nice, as the breadth of programming recorded by TiVo's can certainly use Custom Folders, but if they did not get that tech, then TiVo may be worried about violating an Echostar patent should they try bother to develop that . Irony?
> 
> I'll add that some months AFTER the settlement, Dish added a "Restore" feature for erased recordings. What timing .
> 
> I have to say, as much as TiVo is really a good product, it is true as many TiVo Lovers have posted on this forum that TiVo has stopped innovating for a very long time. The Hopper product at launch and now with a plethora of new innovative features just released really does show how TiVo, in some ways, is still back in 1999. Yes, the introduction of hardware and no-brainer stuff like the Stream and way too late Mini are good, but TiVo still functions pretty much as it did on the old days. Real innovation is taking place at other places, mostly at DirecTV and Dish, not so much at the baggy eyed cable companies who don't even seem to know that innovation exists and where TiVo is the gold, if not platinum, standard among clunky MSO DVR technology.
> 
> Of course, innovation costs a lot of money, and with the Dia del los Muertos of TiVo patents fast approaching, Tom Rogers has probably made a wise fiscal decision on where to catch-up and where NOT to innovate, with his words "exit strategy" perhaps answering the often non or lite innovative claim on the TiVo of today.
> 
> Man, the new Hopper features just blow by TiVo, and yet, it should never have, but, then again, the innovative people who were there when TiVo began, aren't there any more, and one innovated with the Roku product, truly the best streaming box with the greatest, yet most simple, remote control. Ah, what could have been at Alviso.


Well, we were Dish Network customers from 1998 to 2001 (with their Dishplayer DVR from its introduction), DirecTiVo users from 2001 to 2012 (when we deactivated the last one) and users of DirecTV's HD DVRs from 2007 until July of this year. In June of this year we switched back to TiVos with FiOS-TV.

I can tell you that DirecTV has very little "innovative" features that TiVo does not. The only really significant advantage that DirecTV has a unified playlist, but even that is a double edged sword (some users would like to be able to permanently disable it).

Other than that, some of DirecTV's "innovations" include excruciatingly slow performance (some button presses can take several seconds to be processed on some models), hard limits on the number of Season Passes allowed (50 on the basic DVRs, 100 on the Genies), no ability to access or manage season passes, ToDo list or history from anywhere other than the DVR itself and no ability to transfer recordings to another DVR or offline storage.

Dish's DVRs may be okay, but the problem is that they only work with Dish Network: Dish Network's "innovations" include frequent programming disputes, several totally missing sports channels, and being perhaps the last provider to offer any kind of multi-room viewing. Of course, Dish is also known for their "HD Lite" (reduced horizontal resolution) designed to let them cram more HD onto their existing satellites.

Neither Dish nor DirecTV offer built-in OTT streaming apps like Netflix and Amazon nor support for HTML5 apps.

DVRs are a mature technology. Each vendor has their strength and weaknesses. I don't think Dish and DirecTV technology is "bad", but neither is TiVo's. If one is displeased with one provider, and would rather have another's products, all it takes is a couple of phone calls to switch. That is what's great about having choices.


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## shwru980r

It's my understanding that Tivo doesn't have folders for the shows. It will display certain shows in groups based on the metadata of the recordings.


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## TexasGrillChef

The latest firmware update did help matters some with the one screen, that does seperate the shows into various tabs. Thats a huge plus. Not the ideal solution mind you. But it does help.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef

It doesn't matter if its groupings, or if its folders.

IF your watching a TV series. Currently that will be "Grouped" together, making the NPL much easier to view. Since even if you have 20 series, each with 25 episodes, it will only generate 20 items in the NPL.

The problem now is with MOVIES... as they aren't a series. Thus what are they going to be "GROUPED" with???

Well only two things I can think of grouping Movies together. Group them all into a "Folder"(grouping) into the NPL as "Movies" 

OR

Group them into a single (folder) based on what channel the MOVIE was recorded from.
Example. groupings on HBO, Showtime, Starz. So that in the NPL, it would show a "Folder" named HBO, Starz, etc...

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef

bradleys said:


> I agree... Any function that requires ongoing user maintenance will be ignored by most customers. I would say 90% of tivo users wouldn't bother to maintain custom folders over an extended period of time.
> 
> That is not saying a foldering strategy that requires minimal user maintenance wouldn't bring value - but even there I think the average user would ignore or disable it.
> 
> TiVo added the filtering menu and you can believe they are tracking how many people keep it, disable it and actually use it to find content.
> 
> I still have it up, but never drill into it... I suspect I am a pretty "average" tivo user.


Im not forsure that having true folders, or customization on "groupings" would require much user maintenance at all.

In my setting... I would create groupings/folders for each of the channels I record movies from (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc...) Thus all movies that I record from HBO would be in the HBO grouping/folder. All the movies from Starz that I would record would be in the Starz grouping/folder.

Maybe for some.... Maybe all movies recorded could be grouped/folder together in one simple group/folder called "Movies"

Not for sure what maintnance would be required. Movies folder/groupings or not can be marked as watched, partially viewed, or to delete whenever you want, or even keep forever, just as they are now.

Even if TiVo were to allow SUB groupings/folders that wouldn't require maintnence either I don't beleive...

By SUB groupings/folders I mean... that we take our current groupings for series... and now can put them in further groupings/folders... such as "NBC" thus all series recorded from NBC would be in the NBC grouping/folder, and then when we viewed that... we could see groupings of the NBC series.

Its all possible... its just how big a demand is it. I beleive for series there isn't much more demand needed then what allready exists.

However, Movies are currently not grouped at all, and now I have a NPL list that has a list of 200+ movies on it (Because most are copy protected and can't be moved off the TiVo) and thus makes my NPL unmanageable.

TGC

P.S. while the lastest firmware version of the TiVo makes it easier to view your lists with the additional filter screen. It does NOT help when it comes to viewing your NPL on your iPhone or Ipad using the TiVo App.


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## Dan203

They seem to be heading in a different direction for that sort of filtering. Maybe they'll allow custom filters in that left pane in a future update, then you'd get something sort of like what you're asking for. Shouldn't be hard for them to allow you to create custom filters similar to a Wish List.


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## tomhorsley

Dan203 said:


> They seem to be heading in a different direction for that sort of filtering. Maybe they'll allow custom filters in that left pane in a future update, then you'd get something sort of like what you're asking for. Shouldn't be hard for them to allow you to create custom filters similar to a Wish List.


Of course that would actually be much more complicated for a user than simply allowing you to create folders, and I thought the reason we'll never get folders is because it is too complicated for the poor users to ignore features they never need .


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## bradleys

tomhorsley said:


> Of course that would actually be much more complicated for a user than simply allowing you to create folders, and I thought the reason we'll never get folders is because it is too complicated for the poor users to ignore features they never need .


No, it is because 80% + users wouldn't use the functionality and it isn't a good allocation of resources.

TiVo's design strategy is all about simplicity and user interaction, not user customization. That is why I do not think TiVo would ever consider custom folders - at least not in the way it is most commonly requested.

Do I personally agree with this design strategy? Yes. I have seen all too often community based applications get weighed down with an infinite number of customization options and menus... Most of which the average user doesn't understand or care about.


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## Noelmel

I would like to just see one more filter on the side called "Specials" or something similar. I "hid" kids / sports / news... all my recordings filtered into TV Series or Movies except a few award shows and specials.


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## bareyb

bradleys said:


> No, it is because 80% + users wouldn't use the functionality and it isn't a good allocation of resources.
> 
> TiVo's design strategy is all about simplicity and user interaction, not user customization. That is why I do not think TiVo would ever consider custom folders - at least not in the way it is most commonly requested.
> 
> Do I personally agree with this design strategy? Yes. I have seen all too often community based applications get weighed down with an infinite number of customization options and menus... Most of which the average user doesn't understand or care about.


Another reason they will never offer folders is because it would cost them sales on individual TiVo units. The ONLY reason I have THREE TiVos here is because I don't want all my wife and kid's stuff on mine. If we had folders I could get by with only ONE TiVo. You do the math...


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## trip1eX

bareyb said:


> Another reason they will never offer folders is because it would cost them sales on individual TiVo units. The ONLY reason I have THREE TiVos here is because I don't want all my wife and kid's stuff on mine. If we had folders I could get by with only ONE TiVo. You do the math...


so they do have custom folders.


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## bradleys

bareyb said:


> Another reason they will never offer folders is because it would cost them sales on individual TiVo units. The ONLY reason I have THREE TiVos here is because I don't want all my wife and kid's stuff on mine. If we had folders I could get by with only ONE TiVo. You do the math...


I seriously doubt that "reason" makes any noticeable difference in sales numbers for TiVo.

I actually could see TiVo implement profiles and a few design studies have leaked in the past. But no... No custom folders - They simply are never going to happen.


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## bareyb

bradleys said:


> *I seriously doubt that "reason" makes any noticeable difference in sales numbers for TiVo.*
> 
> I actually could see TiVo implement profiles and a few design studies have leaked in the past. But no... No custom folders - They simply are never going to happen.


I think for many of us, it's the _only_ reason we still have multiple TiVos. If I had a way (profiles would work too) to separate all our shows from each other, we'd be able to get by easily with just our Roamio Pro.


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## bradleys

And I still say the Mini was a far bigger hit on the multiple TiVo market than content separation ever would be. 

That has nothing to do with whether TiVo would ever decide to implement custom folders or profiles. 

But hey, I am just a nobody - but I would still bet big money that TiVo will NEVER implement custom folders: 1) it wouldn't bring value to the majority of TiVo users and 2) that it goes against the usability strategies they develop under.


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## bareyb

bradleys said:


> And I still say the Mini was a far bigger hit on the multiple TiVo market than content separation ever would be.
> 
> That has nothing to do with whether TiVo would ever decide to implement custom folders or profiles.
> 
> **But hey, I am just a nobody - but I would still bet big money that TiVo will NEVER implement custom folders:* 1) it wouldn't bring value to the majority of TiVo users and 2) that it goes against the usability strategies they develop under.


Well in my case you'd be wrong. The only reason we didn't buy Mini's instead of additional TiVo boxes are directly related to the fact that we would not be able to separate user data. No way I'm having all my daughter's crap on my TiVo. Our Now Playing List would be ten miles long. 

*Are you also saying they will never have custom profiles either? And your reason is because why? Nobody wants them? If so, I beg to differ. I think people do want them, hence this thread...  I think it would be very valuable for most families (are you single?) and a feature anyone with kids (or a wife like Tim Mckelly's) would like to have.


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## bradleys

Tivo doesn't develop a product for "you", they develop a product with a feature set that:

- is easy to use and understand
- provides functionality that brings value to the largest possible audience 
- with priority of development goin to the highest value functionality.

Will they ever develop profiles? Maybe, profiles have been successfully implemented by Netflix and others and brings a level of functionality that wouldn't be difficult to setup or maintain by the average user.

Do I think they will ever deliver custom folders? Not in the way people tend to request them. It is the type of functionality that looks good on paper but tends to get ignored by the masses - in the long run.

If you just look at how the "majority" of people deal with simple file management on a PC - they will start out with great intentions - but things just generally pile up in a folder.

And while you may be that 1% ADD guy that would keep and maintain his foldering system - I say again... TiVo does not develop a product for "you", they develop a feature set that brings the most value to the largest possible audience.


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## zalusky

My wife wants a feature where she can filter on "New" shows when looking at the guide. She tends to bring up the channel guide and then walk from day to day on a channel looking to see whats NEW. You can filter on lots of guide stuff but not that.


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## bradleys

That is an interesting idea... I think it is the general approach they are trying to accomplish with the "what to watch now" section. You should have her submit a feature request.


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## tomhorsley

zalusky said:


> My wife wants a feature where she can filter on "New" shows when looking at the guide. She tends to bring up the channel guide and then walk from day to day on a channel looking to see whats NEW. You can filter on lots of guide stuff but not that.


Yep. I don't care much about unlimited custom folders, but I sure wish I could push a button and move all the older recordings to an "old stuff" folder.


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## bareyb

bradleys said:


> If you just look at how the "majority" of people deal with simple file management on a PC - they will start out with great intentions - but things just generally pile up in a folder.
> 
> *And while you may be that 1% ADD guy that would keep and maintain his foldering system - I say again... *


I'm not that guy at all. I don't care about Folders. Especially in the way that you are talking about them. I think that would be a mess. All I care about is having a way to separate my shows my my other family member's shows. Profiles would accomplish that for me quite nicely, and I'd be able to get rid of two of my TiVos and get Minis instead.

TiVo would of course lose the monthly fees on those two boxes, plus the cost of the replacement boxes that I would have upgraded over time... It is for that reason, I don't think they would tend to want to offer that functionality, however, if you say other DVRs have it already, that would tend to give me more hope that TiVo will one day offer it too. Competition is a good thing.


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## lpwcomp

bareyb said:


> <snip>... and I'd be able to get rid of two of my TiVos and get Streams instead. ...<snip>


I assume you actually mean Minis rather than Streams.


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## bareyb

lpwcomp said:


> I assume you actually mean Minis rather than Streams.


Fixed. Thanks.


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