# Person of Interest - S3E23 - "Deus Ex Machina" - 5/13/2014



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ok, I have to make the obligatory comment as to how I still don't understand why this show doesn't get more buzz, especially here.

I pity those that view this show as "just another CBS procedural".

I find Person of Interest extremely relevant these days due to things like the Snowden leaks and the knowledge that the Government is spying on us.

The show has often danced around the implications of the power of the Machine's surveillance and analytical abilities but if you think about it, it *is* very scary.
We've been accepting of Finch and Reese's use of the power (and their other violations of privacy) because they are doing good, saving lives, and are heroes.

But what if someone like Elias got his hands on this type of power?

POI hasn't gone quite that far but the debate raging in the last couple of episodes makes some valid points.

I've been waiting since day one for the producers to title an episode "Deus Ex Machina" and am glad they held onto it for such an important episode.

That said, Finch and company went out on a real humdinger of a downer last night.
I haven't gotten such a feeling of depression from the show since the death of Carter.

I knew that Greer was manipulating Vigilance (and Collier) and said so in the last episode thread but I didn't think that he was actually responsible for it's genesis.

I have always liked how POI has built it's characters to be more than just cardboard cutouts.
This episode's key example was Hersh.

Sure, like CONTROL, he's ostensibly been a "bad guy", trying to kill both Reese and Shaw.

And yet he willing risks his life here to save those innocents in the "courtroom".

No doubt, that's how he's viewed his whole job and if he has to break a few eggs in the process, too bad.

Greer is another example. He thinks that the world would be a better place if it was run not by him, but a machine.
Of course, I don't think he's considered what happens if Samaritan, labels him as a "deviant".

Best exchange was:
Finch: "Why would you ever choose a career where this is an occupational hazard?" 
Reese: "Well, I tried to quit. But some jackass told me I needed a purpose."

So what's the team's next move with them "just surviving"?


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

yeah, great show, great episode

I agree it was a downer 
I thought Root had installed viruses on the 7 servers to infect Samaritan, 
was kinda of a let down and bummer to see The Machine and Root knew they were already defeated the previous episode 

I thought the best line was Hersh's response to Shaw after he shot the Vigilance guys and Shaw made the remark about not being able to question them now 

But I also liked the response and speech during the trial of the lady that played Control 

interesting thought about the possibility of Samaritan seeing Greer as a deviant


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Outstanding season ending.
Wonder what Samaritan has in mind?

I'm assuming that the AIs don't track dogs.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

NYT has a review...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/a...t-tvs-viability.html?hpw&rref=television&_r=0

Insightful and I agree with much of it excepting...

"its share of inferior, wrongheaded episodes; this time they were concentrated around the midseason death of Detective Carter, played by Taraji P. Henson."
Heresy!

POI is easily the best, most intelligent sci-fi on TV


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Darn, I actually wished that the "trial" (by the terrorists, and yes, I call them that) was really visible to all. The show already basically did a pivot in this season.. and it would be interesting to see how they could do a pivot with everyone knowing about it.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

The show is incredible... what an amazing season and finale! I'm so glad that I gave it a second and a third chance after giving up on it twice.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

I'm going to have to re-watch the finale. Did Fusco survive?


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

brianric said:


> I'm going to have to re-watch the finale. Did Fusco survive?


I believe so. I remember seeing him in a scene in the montage where Samaritan was identifying people on the streets and other people were shooting them. Fusco was in a scene in the Police Station where someone Samaritan identified was getting shot.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Outstanding. Depressing, but outstanding. Can't wait to see where they take this next.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

JYoung said:


> We've been accepting of Finch and Reese's use of the power (and their other violations of privacy) because they are doing good, saving lives, and are heroes.
> 
> *But what if someone like Elias got his hands on this type of power? *


You mean somebody like Decima? 

Great season finale. Looking forward to how they'll defeat Samaritan.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

My only complaint was I could not tell who was who during all the shooting. Maybe the good guys could have white stocking caps instead of black.  I actually did not hate Hersch in this one, loved his character.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

verdugan said:


> You mean somebody like Decima?
> 
> Great season finale. Looking forward to how they'll defeat Samaritan.


What if Samaritan decides that old man Decima is an "undesirable"? 

I predict it becomes The Machine vs Samaritan and 'she' ends it by destroying both AIs. Seems like a semi-happy ending, but then we get a Finch voice over saying, "It's only a matter of time before someone else builds another AI"


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

mattack said:


> Darn, I actually wished that the "trial" (by the terrorists, and yes, I call them that) was really visible to all.


+ 1


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm just glad Collier lived only long enough to find out what a dupe he was.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

busyba said:


> I'm just glad Collier lived only long enough to find out what a dupe he was.


I had sympathy for him for what happened to his brother but he turned into worse than what he was fighting against. I don't like un-warranted government surveillance but I like summary execution by self anointed self satisfied vigilantes even less.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> I had sympathy for him for what happened to his brother but he turned into worse than what he was fighting against. I don't like un-warranted government surveillance but I like summary execution by self anointed self satisfied vigilantes even less.


Yeah, his character was a bit over the top but since it was so over the top, once they started showing the flashbacks on how he was recruited, a false flag operation seemed likely.

I liked most of the episode. It even made Control and Hersch sympathetic. But I wasn't nuts about the ending. I kinda wanted a cliff hanger. This felt more like an ending for a reboot.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

You're right about the reboot but looking back at last season's ending POI went from primarily a procedural rescue of the week with occasional CIA flashbacks of John's career into Machine territory as we wondered who had control over Finch's Machine and what new and different paths the rebooted Machine would take.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> I had sympathy for him for what happened to his brother but he turned into worse than what he was fighting against. I don't like un-warranted government surveillance but I like summary execution by self anointed self satisfied vigilantes even less.


No due process in this show, they are all vigilantes. And the elected ones are not better than the unelected.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

logic88 said:


> I liked most of the episode. It even made Control and Hersch sympathetic. But I wasn't nuts about the ending. I kinda wanted a cliff hanger. This felt more like an ending for a reboot.


In an earlier episode I thought it was out of character for Control to truly shut down Northern Lights.

Perhaps in the reboot she is going to give some assistance to Finch & co.


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

Liked it a lot, however the ending kind of had me wondering how on earth they're going to get the group back together. They've gone separate ways with new identities.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Tivo_60 said:


> Liked it a lot, however the ending kind of had me wondering how on earth they're going to get the group back together. They've gone separate ways with new identities.


Easy. The machine will contact them and get them back together.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> No due process in this show, they are all vigilantes. And the elected ones are not better than the unelected.


The unelected (Vigilance) are worse than the elected because they consider themselves superior/better than the elected ones.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Just throwing this out there to see if it will stick.

My guess is, we'll find out Samaritan borrowed enough of "The Machine's" code that it will start reaching to Finch and Company to get back to doing what they've been doing all along.

Or we'll see The Machine out in the wild, infecting/running on computers everywhere, thus still operational.


phox


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

brianric said:


> I'm going to have to re-watch the finale. Did Fusco survive?


Speaking of Fusco, I laughed and was surprised at his response of "What machine?"

This is just my memory being bad, but I thought they had at least implied they got the numbers technologically. I guess Finch & the main guy (shows my bad memory) have always been super vague, up until Finch said "the machine" to Fusco in this episode.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

phox_mulder said:


> Just throwing this out there to see if it will stick.
> 
> My guess is, we'll find out Samaritan borrowed enough of "The Machine's" code that it will start reaching to Finch and Company to get back to doing what they've been doing all along.
> 
> ...


Samaritan was independently developed by a different guy, someone who knew Finch but neither knew of the other's efforts at the time so its unlikely that there would have been code sharing.

The Machine is out in the wild. It moved itself as we saw towards the end of last season. Nobody, Finch, Control, Decima knows where the Machine is.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> The Machine is out in the wild. It moved itself as we saw towards the end of last season. Nobody, Finch, Control, Decima knows where the Machine is.


That's the one thing about which I'm finding difficulty suspending my disbelief. Obviously it didn't sprout legs and walk away; it had to manipulate people into transporting it. Who are those people? _Someone_ knows where it is.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

busyba said:


> That's the one thing about which I'm finding difficulty suspending my disbelief. Obviously it didn't sprout legs and walk away; it had to manipulate people into transporting it. Who are those people? _Someone_ knows where it is.


I thought they did a decent job of explaining it last year. Either that or my memory is wrong, which is totally valid.  But didn't the machine task many, many people to do different parts of the job? That would prevent anyone from knowing what is going on. Sure, some of the people may know where the machine is but they probably do not know that they know. They were just doing a job and have no clue it is some super secret machine.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

busyba said:


> That's the one thing about which I'm finding difficulty suspending my disbelief. Obviously it didn't sprout legs and walk away; it had to manipulate people into transporting it. Who are those people? _Someone_ knows where it is.


They explained a bit. The Machine cut its own paperwork to transport its components to point A. It then moved to B...iterate. If it can cut paperwork it can also eliminate paperwork. Humans did not know what they were moving.

Where this falls apart as you say is that humans had to "plug in" the components and set them up somewhere. You'd think as you said that someone like the CIA/FBI could after lots of investigation find the humans who did this.

In the end It's a TV Show


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## RickyL (Sep 13, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Ok, I have to make the obligatory comment as to how I still don't understand why this show doesn't get more buzz, especially here.
> 
> I pity those that view this show as "just another CBS procedural".
> 
> ...


What power is that? Finch's machine is a closed system. You can't ask it anything. Samaritan, OTOH, is open.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

philw1776 said:


> They explained a bit. The Machine cut its own paperwork to transport its components to point A. It then moved to B...iterate. If it can cut paperwork it can also eliminate paperwork. Humans did not know what they were moving.
> 
> Where this falls apart as you say is that humans had to "plug in" the components and set them up somewhere. You'd think as you said that someone like the CIA/FBI could after lots of investigation find the humans who did this.
> 
> In the end It's a TV Show


its not like this is the only computer system in the world

the machine was smart enough to include itself as part of a normal installation of another system

The Machine is in here somewhere, can you see it ?

https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/gallery/#/tech

its hiding in plain sight






can you tell which people are installing The Machine, and which are installing the other system ?

http://www.google.com/about/datacenters/gallery/#/people


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

busyba said:


> That's the one thing about which I'm finding difficulty suspending my disbelief. Obviously it didn't sprout legs and walk away; it had to manipulate people into transporting it. Who are those people? _Someone_ knows where it is.


It has evolved, it is a virtual machine, everywhere and nowhere.

When the Sun dies it will say "Let there be light".


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

pgogborn said:


> It has evolved, it is a virtual machine, everywhere and nowhere.
> 
> When the Sun dies it will say "Let there be light".


The Machine = Multivac

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

jamesl said:


> The Machine = Multivac
> 
> http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html


Excellent catch.

The Last Question is my favourite Sci-Fi story ever.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

RickyL said:


> What power is that? Finch's machine is a closed system. You can't ask it anything. Samaritan, OTOH, is open.


As you point out, Samaritan _is_ open.

Also, don't forget that the Government tried numerous times to hack into the Machine.
What if they (or someone else) succeeded?

And let's not forget about the Machine's "God Mode" which Root _did_ manage to access.



pgogborn said:


> It has evolved, it is a virtual machine, everywhere and nowhere.
> 
> When the Sun dies it will say "Let there be light".


Or Fredric Brown's Answer.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Receiving the government feeds now, sir.

Greer: Then by all means, let there be life.
...
What a piece of work is your machine, Harold. In action, how like an angel. In apprehension, how like a god. In 20 years time, life on Earth will come to resemble the myths of the Ancient Greeks. A pantheon of super intelligent beings will watch over using human agents to meddle in our affairs. Or they may simply destroy us all.
...
gods are not easily born. In order to bring mine into being, I needed a devil.
...
I'm glad that you've lived long enough to see the dawn of the new world you created, Harold, *but the time has come for your god and mine to do battle*, and regrettably, our paths diverge here.

(emphasis added)


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Machine vs Samaritan. Me Likey! Are you ready for some football?

Prediction for next season. The Gang of Seven have new IDs but Samaritan finds Harold because he couldn't resist taking a bird last name yet again.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> Machine vs Samaritan. Me Likey! Are you ready for some football?
> 
> Prediction for next season. The Gang of Seven have new IDs but Samaritan finds Harold because he couldn't resist taking a bird last name yet again.


Didn't The Machine decide their new identities/names?

Wouldn't it be smart enough not to indulge that whim of his?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Seven servers hiding the IDs of the gang of seven. If one of the servers falls over somebody could die.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I couldn't focus on all seven new identities quickly enough. Who are the seven? I'm assuming Root, Finch, Shaw and Reese are #1 - #4. Fusco for #5 or is he inconsequential?

One thing I really didn't like about this episode was at the end when the police were shooting "deviants" in public crowds.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I couldn't focus on all seven new identities quickly enough. Who are the seven? I'm assuming Root, Finch, Shaw and Reese are #1 - #4. Fusco for #5 or is he inconsequential?
> 
> One thing I really didn't like about this episode was at the end when the police were shooting "deviants" in public crowds.


I thought it was the three tech geeks that helped Root with the 7 stolen servers.


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## IDSmoker (Apr 11, 2004)

TampaThunder said:


> I thought it was the three tech geeks that helped Root with the 7 stolen servers.


 and I thought it was the vigilance crew


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I couldn't focus on all seven new identities quickly enough. Who are the seven? I'm assuming Root, Finch, Shaw and Reese are #1 - #4. Fusco for #5 or is he inconsequential?
> 
> One thing I really didn't like about this episode was at the end when the police were shooting "deviants" in public crowds.


Root, Finch, Shaw, Reese and the 3 tech geeks = 7

Fusco is probably inconsequential and/or may be unknown to Decima/Samaritan as an undesirable

Good thing Samaritan doesn't know about Bear!


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> Root, Finch, Shaw, Reese and the 3 tech geeks = 7


 Exactly this. They showed the picture of the 7 in one of the closing scenes, and we saw Root give the three geeks their new identities before she deployed the servers.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

IDSmoker said:


> and I thought it was the vigilance crew


It was. The woman who was shot was the vigilance "judge" and she had a gun at the time.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I think there's been some confusion from sloppy quoting.

The tech geeks were part of The Seven.

The vigilance strays were the people being shot in the streets by NYPD.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

What I don't get is why the Decima goon went into the police station and killed the Vigilance guy who had been arrested (which also necessitated killing the NYPD officer who was bringing him in).

Even if you really did need him dead, he wasn't going anywhere; they could have killed him leisurely rather than just cap him and an officer in a precinct hallway.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

busyba said:


> What I don't get is why the Decima goon went into the police station and killed the Vigilance guy who had been arrested (which also necessitated killing the NYPD officer who was bringing him in).
> 
> Even if you really did need him dead, he wasn't going anywhere; they could have killed him leisurely rather than just cap him and an officer in a precinct hallway.


Needed killin' ASAP before he fessed up to the cops about the existence of The Machine, etc.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Oh. right.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

cheesesteak said:


> I couldn't focus on all seven new identities quickly enough. Who are the seven? I'm assuming Root, Finch, Shaw and Reese are #1 - #4. Fusco for #5 or is he inconsequential?
> 
> One thing I really didn't like about this episode was at the end when the police were shooting "deviants" in public crowds.


yeah, like they've never done that before 
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/times-s...ot-two-innocent-bystanders-near-times-square/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/n...rs-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?_r=0

I also forgot who the 7 were, but according to 
http://tvline.com/2014/05/13/person-of-interest-season-3-recap-reese-finch-shaw-root-in-hiding/ 
"Root, Shaw, Finch, Reese and Root's three hacker pals"


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

busyba said:


> I think there's been some confusion from sloppy quoting. The tech geeks were part of The Seven. The vigilance strays were the people being shot in the streets by NYPD.


Thanks - was just going to post this.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Glad to see that tvline got the 7 right


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I couldn't focus on all seven new identities quickly enough. Who are the seven? I'm assuming Root, Finch, Shaw and Reese are #1 - #4. Fusco for #5 or is he inconsequential?


Fusco is protected by his ignorance.

(in the episode he said "What machine?")


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

pgogborn said:


> Fusco is protected by his ignorance.
> 
> (in the episode he said "What machine?")


Spot on!

That line and John's response to The-Man-Formerly-Known-As-Finch "Some Jackass convinced me I should..." were great lines.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Machine vs Samaritan. Me Likey! Are you ready for some football?


Or (as I mentioned previously) Samaritan becomes Guardian to the Machine's Colossus.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I do not expect next season to be dominated by The Gang rescuing potential victims via SSNs as previously. The HR subplot is history. The show has evolved. The Machine is evolving. Fast. There is untapped story potential in an AI "war" with associated analog interfaces and surrogates. Like other seasons, I still expect a comedy centric episode or so and a couple poignant rescues of the hapless.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

An interview with POI's creators with some info on how next season will go...

http://observationdeck.io9.com/person-of-interest-the-complete-unedited-interview-1577052827/all

I think they're kidding here..

*Jonathan Nolan: Because next season we explore the issue of a virus in the real world infecting an AI in the virtual world, which is toxoplasmosis. The extent of cat videos on the internet is our best hope of defeating Samaritan. [It becomes] completely obsessed with cat videos  and then we put it out of its misery when we get a chance.*


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

verdugan said:


> The unelected (Vigilance) are worse than the elected because they consider themselves superior/better than the elected ones.


That's the fun of the show. All of these characters are gray, and they all have a point of view. Their point of view can be very persuasive, depending on where your own allegiances lie.
Greg Plageman (showrunner, executive producer, and writer on Person of Interest)
http://observationdeck.io9.com/person-of-interest-the-complete-unedited-interview-1577052827/all


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

philw1776 said:


> [It becomes] completely obsessed with cat videos  and then we put it out of its misery when we get a chance.[/B]


sounds like a sound strategy to me

let's get started


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

OK, who thought of the 3 guys on X Files when they saw the geeks on this show?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mattack said:


> OK, who thought of the 3 guys on X Files when they saw the geeks on this show?


Probably the only thing that would/could make this show better would be the addition of the Lone Gunmen.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Lone Gunmen! I purposely left out the name since I couldn't remember their group name..


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

mattack said:


> OK, who thought of the 3 guys on X Files when they saw the geeks on this show?


I did. I was kinda hoping that's who they would be.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Now if they just brought in the cigarette smoking man.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Howie said:


> Now if they just brought in the cigarette smoking man.


You know he's busy with Continuum, right?


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm surprised that there isn't more feedback from people they have saved in previous episodes. By feedback I mean helping out in the current case. They would have quite the little army of helpers. And a lot of those people are in useful positions. I'm not complaining, the show doesn't need my help, just an observation.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

unitron said:


> You know he's busy with Continuum, right?


I know he's old, but a a couple of hours 3-4 times a year hardly qualifies as busy.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

oscarfish said:


> I'm surprised that there isn't more feedback from people they have saved in previous episodes. By feedback I mean helping out in the current case. They would have quite the little army of helpers. And a lot of those people are in useful positions. I'm not complaining, the show doesn't need my help, just an observation.


I enjoyed when they brought back Leon Tao, the sleazy finance guy who double crossed a white supremacist gang. He was played by Ken Leung. According to IMDB he's been in 4 episodes.

Paige Turco's character (Zoe Morgan) has been in 7 episodes.

So they do it, but it'd be nice if they do it more often.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

I am wondering if their new IDs will mean that they have normal jobs as part of their cover - and if so what Root has come up with for Shaw.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> I am wondering if their new IDs will mean that they have normal jobs as part of their cover - and if so what Root has come up with for Shaw.


Stripper??


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

WO312 said:


> Stripper??


:up::up::up:


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

pgogborn said:


> I am wondering if their new IDs will mean that they have normal jobs as part of their cover - and if so what Root has come up with for Shaw.


Junior level but highly competent mediator?
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4142576640/tt1586676?ref_=ttmi_mi_all_sf_11


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

WO312 said:


> Stripper??


Is it wrong to offer a prayer for this? 

Instead, I fear that the writers will have her assume some nerdy identity similar to the one Finch gave her at the High School reunion. 

Reese could pass as a taciturn bland accountant, although a return to street bum might be a better disguise with more mobility.

Finch needs to stay away from any ornithological last names.

Root as a librarian with thick glasses seems apropos.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I like Shaw as a Starbucks barista.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

If they have a new season it has to be that "she"/The Machine is talking to Samaritan in real time and seeing what it's doing AND telling "root."

The plot gets a bit tiring. The Machine has no data but it still can tell "root" what intersection to send the team to, or where the NYC Samaritan node is.

More tiring: There's always one more "bad guy behind the bad guy" or "machine behind the machine" "group behind the group" like on "Burn Notice."

The one hacker kid knows about dodging monsters. He's the kid from Jurassic Park.

Imagine. "The Senator" can make a phone call and get all of the CCTV and network feeds of the planet connected or not in an hour, but there's nobody else who knows. _Who_ does he call?

You know the writers have left a lot of dangling plot points like the mysterious assassin who was zooming in and threatening Finch. There is the eavesdropping girl who was sent off to a boarding school.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Imagine. "The Senator" can make a phone call and get all of the CCTV and network feeds of the planet connected or not in an hour, but there's nobody else who knows. _Who_ does he call?


Admiral Michael S. Rogers, USN.


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