# Lost - "Maternity Leave", 3/1/06 *SPOILERS*



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Trying to decide if I'm honored to be able to start this thread, or mystified that I'm the one starting this thread. In any case, here it is.

Looks to be another jungle search episode ...


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

Great. I listen to a teething baby scream for 12 hours today, I finally, FINALLY sit down to some peace to watch Lost, and there's a DAMN SCREAMING BABY in the background the whole time.

Life hates me.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

whats up with the escape hatch in the hallway?


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

I think the most interesting thing from this episode is that the Others aren't as dirty and backwards as we thought. But what is the ruse for?

<Battlestar Galactica>They have a plan.</Battlestar Galactica>


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## yostmatt (Apr 6, 2005)

so we thinking Henry is one of the 'others' ??? I didnt think so till the comment he made at Locke at the end, seems like hes trying to stir up some trouble.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

That's the biggest 5-week old baby I've ever seen. It looks like it's 7 months old.

I recogonized Zeke's voice immediately, but was thrown when I saw the person talking. It didn't make any sense until Kate found the prop department.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

yostmatt said:


> so we thinking Henry is one of the 'others' ??? I didnt think so till the comment he made at Locke at the end, seems like hes trying to stir up some trouble.


At first I couldn't tell if Locke was seeing right through his obvious mind games. I never thought Locke would be such an easy mark.

-Mike


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Mike Farrington said:


> At first I couldn't tell if Locke was seeing right through his obvious mind games. I never thought Locke would be such an easy mark.
> 
> -Mike


thats because we know him as locke the hunter/tracker/manly man

most OTHERS know him as john locke the cripple that works in a box company and gets picked on by his boss randy


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

Am I going to be the loser to say it this week? I feel duped again. Why am I watching this god forsaken version of gilligan's island? How do they have me to tightly.

I was so angry after this episode. What did we learn. It is like dying of thirst and being revived with a medicine dropper.


Drip, hatch opens. Drip, Button to push. Drip, Dharma Initiative. Drip. Drip.


I don't think I can do it any more.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Mike Farrington said:


> I never thought Locke would be such an easy mark.


Wait a second. What the hell was I thinking. This is the man who was conned out of a kidney.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

yostmatt said:


> so we thinking Henry is one of the 'others' ??? I didnt think so till the comment he made at Locke at the end, seems like hes trying to stir up some trouble.


It was pretty obvious to me after the sinister look he had on his face at the end of the last episode when nobody was watching him...

Is it me, or has Kate been working out? She seems more buff, especially in the arms and shoulders...


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

wowww... FANTASTIC episode in my opinion. Pays for the slower ones of late. We learned a LOT about the others, though still not what they're purpose is.

Why is the "hospital" cleaned out? Where did they go? Do they only go there when they need to? Did the countdown hitting zero have anything to do with it?

Saw Alex, she is alive, well, and apparently not hypnotized like the others.

Zeke made reference to the "list." So it seems apparent that they were prepared for groups of people to arrive, and to develop lists of good/bad people. Then they talked about "him." Who is "him?" Hanso?


I have a feeling this will be a long thread.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

what was ethans key chain...cant tell on the sd....seemed like they wanted us to see it


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## Rangers4me (May 18, 2001)

I thought this was a great episode. I loved the way the kept on dropping little pieces of the story, and then finally put the pieces together towards the end.

And plus, now we know that the Others are nothing more than a traveling performing arts group.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

For God's sake, the guy says his name is Henry Gale.

Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in the Wizard of Oz. He's full of crap.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

ha...


what was the song playing on that mobile in the baby crib? sounded familiar....from this show? didnt claire say somthing about a song for her baby...?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

El Gabito said:


> wowww... FANTASTIC episode in my opinion. Pays for the slower ones of late. We learned a LOT about the others, though still not what they're purpose is.
> 
> Why is the "hospital" cleaned out? Where did they go? Do they only go there when they need to? Did the countdown hitting zero have anything to do with it?
> 
> ...


I thought the "hospital" looked ransacked. If so, this would lend credence to the theory that there are two groups of others. The "civilized" others: Zeke, Ethan, et. al. and some "wild" others: the mysterious barefoot people the tailies encountered. The "wild" others chased the "civilized" others out of the "hospital" hatch after Claire escaped and trashed the place.

If there are two groups of others, were they two Darhma groups, or were they one Darhma group that splintered?

I think they made it clear that the blue-eyed dark-haired young girl that helped Claire escape is Alex. This would make Alex a "double agent". Lives with and cooperates with the "others", but realizes that their motives are not good.

As to who "him" is. If my theory that Zeke is DeGroot is wrong, "him" could be Degroot. Other possibilities include Hanso (would he still be alive?) or perhaps Dr. Candle (the guy who narrated the orientation film). From the first moment we saw that film I've had the feeling the sooner or later we will meet Dr. Candle in the flesh.

If there was any doubt before that Henry Gale is an "other", this episode remove it, IMHO. He's an other, and a nasty one at that.

Anyway: awesome episode! :up:


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Mike Farrington said:


> At first I couldn't tell if Locke was seeing right through his obvious mind games. I never thought Locke would be such an easy mark.
> 
> -Mike


why couldnt locke be playing gale? he knew that he could hear them from his answer to jacks question about what they should do with him...and it was confirmed in their scene together..."you have good ears" "you have thin doors"

eh, somthin to think about


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

OK, Tivo cut off recording right as Locke was walking into talk with Henry Gale. What happened next?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

The song was "Catch a falling star" and the airplanes were Oceanic Flight 815 (I think). The "Vaccine" was RX-1 and had _THE _numbers on the bottle.

<Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, save it for a rainy day>

Oh how I love TiVo slomo!


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> The song was "Catch a falling star" and the airplanes were Oceanic Flight 815 (I think).


thanks for the name, is that the song that she wanted the "adopters" to sing to her baby?

howd THEY know


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## bigcb37 (Jun 14, 2002)

My question is why did Locke and Jack switch positions when it came to dealing with Henry? Last episode Locke was in agreement with Sayid keeping Henry as a prisoner and tourturing him. Jack on the other hand was not. Then in this eposode Locke was giving Henry books and food and much more sympathetic. Locke even questioned Jack as to why they were still keeping him locked up and Jack was all of a sudden saying how they were not sure who he was etc...

Do you think the timer counting down somehow switched Locke and Jacks intentions? They were the only two in the room when it went off for a bit. Maybe Locke is now the man of science and and Jack is the man of faith. Jack telling Claire not to worry about the baby being sick and Locke getting uncharacteristically upset when Henry was obviously trying to provoke him seems to back up this theory.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Mike Farrington said:


> That's the biggest 5-week old baby I've ever seen. It looks like it's 7 months old.
> 
> I recognized Zeke's voice immediately, but was thrown when I saw the person talking. It didn't make any sense until Kate found the prop department.


I'd been thinking since the first time we saw Zeek on the ocean that it looked like a bad makeup job.. It wasn't until the "don't cross this episode" line that I started thinking it was intentional for some reason.. didn't put 2 and 2 together and figure out that it was actual makeup until tonight.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Rangers4me said:


> And plus, now we know that the Others are nothing more than a traveling performing arts group.


Oh, no!!! They are even more sinister than I had imagined!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

El Gabito said:


> Why is the "hospital" cleaned out? Where did they go? Do they only go there when they need to? Did the countdown hitting zero have anything to do with it?


Claire escaped, so they knew the Others (that is, their Others--Jack & Crew) could be coming at any time.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I also noticed that Jack and Locke had switched positions. It's unforgivable that the writers screwed that up. Add to that the usual Lost writer cheats of unnecessary secrets and people traipsing off into the jungle alone, and there was plenty to get annoyed at in this ep.

Thankfully, there was a nice new set piece, and a cryptic new backstory with plenty of clues (or non-clues) to analyze. So, overall, I'm happy.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok, first of all, loved the episode.. I'll second the idea that this makes up for the relatively slow ones to date (even though I enjoyed those too).

Didn't think this at the time, but I gotta wonder: If Kate, Claire, and Danielle hung around inside that hatch for a while, would they hear or see anything interesting at the time that whomever was on our side of the island pushed the button? If it was you there, wouldn't you at least consider staying around for 108 minutes before leaving?

I think Eko believes he's dead, and in limbo, and it's being decided if he's going to heaven or hell. I think that was why he wanted to talk to the first Other he could get near, and why he wanted to apologize for killing the first two men. I didn't totally get the significance of the cutting of the beard - I figure it's some penance thing?

Our "how many groups of 'others' are there?" question just got solved, right? It just coalesced down into 1 group of Others, and then Danielle. Desmond was taking the same vaccine (and was worried about people getting sick - he asked Locke if they had), so he (or if his story is true, then just Kelvin) was part of that group that Zeke's in charge of now, which is all Dharma. I think we can assume Henry is an Other, what with the look from the last episode, and, well, just because.

Initially I'd been confused about the timing of Claire's memory.. Initially when Ethan talked about her traveling in the third trimester I thought she was remembering something from before the flight, and that he'd injected her before she flew (and she just remembered it was him). Then when she was so convinced that it was _there_ that she insisted Kate help her _find_ it, I knew I'd had it wrong.

Lots of book references, didn't catch all of the titles.

One thing that really bugged me about Claire this episode: she goes on this flight because of the psychic that's been hounding her for many months.. he's clearly not someone she can easily forget or push out of her mind.. He spent all of his time telling her "YOU must raise this baby! YOU must take care of it!!!!!".. Then she even figures out (with Charlie's help I think) that the psychic _knew_ they'd crash, to make sure she keeps the baby.. ..and then? She gives the baby to Sun, who says blatent lines like "are you _sure_ you want to do this? I don't think this is a good idea." and "A mother should not leave her child".. ..and she leaves her with Sun. And then.... we find out she'd decided to leave the kid with the others!! WTF? So much for listening to the psychic!!

(just re-looked at the scene where Claire said "I'm sorry, are YOU a mother??".. Sun's response - "No.. (pause). I am not" now looks more like a hint for some future flashback reveal.. moreso than I originally saw, anyway)

Oh.. In the scene where Ethan's injecting Claire's belly, (Picard-Voice) _there.. are....... *eight* lights!!!!!!!_ (/Picard-Voice)

So, does the fact that they have an Oceanic Plane mobile confirm that they planned a plane crash here on the island, or that they're all in fact dead?

So Zeke called him Ethan.. Though I think we could have guessed this anyway, that means that at least _they're_ not deliberately coming up with their own anagram names for themselves to test people.. so maybe Henry Gale really thinks his name is Henry Gale (and he's not chuckling that people aren't getting the Wizard of Oz reference).. (unless they came up with fake names and then started to use them amongst themselves, which seems ridiculous)

When Kate held a gun to Danielle's chest and Danielle said "go ahead.. please.. do it..", they looked so much alike that I wanted her to say something like "I'm you 10 years down the line.. this is what you're in for.." (not literally her)

So was the "really sour" water to get her to forget? Did they ever plan on her forgetting? Was it just the drug they were giving her to keep her from going "hey you #$%#ing kidnapped me GET AWAY FROM ME AND MY BABY" blahblahblah?

Why go through the effort of removing the stuff from the kid's room? It must have been to move it somewhere.. It couldn't be to hide it, because the fact that you can still see outlines of the kids stuff on the walls in dirt reveals that.. Why bail and leave some of the lockers full of others' clothes/costumes?

Clicking "Submit Reply" because it's been 107 minutes and there's a beeping counter going off..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh yeah, great line:

Locke: "..and if the alarm goes off, don't tell him what it's for."
Eko : (pause).. "What is it for?"


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I also noticed that Jack and Locke had switched positions. It's unforgivable that the writers screwed that up.


Oh come on now, are we watching the same show? This is Lost. These writers wouldn't screw that up.

If anything I think maybe it's just a subtle way of saying that they're both very uncertain what's going on with him and what to do with him, so much so that they're both changing how they feel about the situation as time goes on (as most of us do about everything). What's interesting is that Jack and Locke seem to always be on the other side of the fence as each other though (at least moreso recently than before), which looks like it'll feed into the bit about Locke being in Jack's shadow.

Plus, all they said last week was that Jack didn't want the guy tortured. I don't think he ever said he wanted him to walk around free, last week. Now, no one was torturing him, and all we're talking about is whether to let the guy go.

All that having been said, it _did_ stick out like a sore thumb, and I did feel a bit let down that they didn't reveal what the point of the juxtaposition was in this episode (again, unless they just did, and it's just to feed the idea that even when Locke comes around to Jack's side, Jack still shifts, and Locke's always in the shadow).


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## TeeSee (Jan 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> (just re-looked at the scene where Claire said "I'm sorry, are YOU a mother??".. Sun's response - "No.. (pause). I am not" now looks more like a hint for some future flashback reveal.. moreso than I originally saw, anyway)


Did you see the preview for the next episode?



Spoiler



Sun asks Sawyer for a pregnancy test.



That may shed some light on her pause.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The Dharma logo from the shark makes another appearance, and we're given a new medical Dharma logo.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9983/dhar7yp.jpg[via thefuselage]









http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x15/dharmaCaduceus.jpg


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

What I found really interesting (which they didn't mention in the episode) was that Dostoevsky was himself a prisoner for an extended period of time. He didn't exactly like it personally (surprise!), but he also noted that prisons reflect the society that builds them. Interesting when thinking of the episode.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was pretty obvious to me after the sinister look he had on his face at the end of the last episode when nobody was watching him...
> 
> Is it me, or has Kate been working out? She seems more buff, especially in the arms and shoulders...


It's possible he's just trying to play on whatever guilt Locke or Jack might feel for keeping him prisoner, since even though they obviously feel justified in keeping him locked up for their own safety, they know there's a reasonable chance his story is true, and that they probably can't keep him locked up forever.

As for the name Henry Gale, of course it's possible that that indicates his story is made up, with the hot air balloon and all. Maybe some sort of psy-ops technique - Henry Gale + balloon fit together in people's minds, so it makes enough sense that they don't really question it, maybe? But, I think that with the use of names by the writers in this show, you have to concede that it might not mean anything. That is, they're not significant in the characters' minds; obviously the writers know the reference they're making. They certainly didn't name characters John Locke and Rousseau by accident, but it's not like anyone's ever said, "oh, just like that philosopher guy."


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

I think this Henry Gale in the cell is "the guy" that Zeke was speaking of...

In the flashbacks, you saw Ethan talking to that guy, who was obviously the old man Zeke that Jack, Sawyer and Locke all ran into. I always, ALWAYS thought his beard looked funny...like not real.

Now we know why.

But he mentioned something about "what am I going to tell HIM"...about the list.

Maybe it's him they "caught". You can see him planting the seeds of distrust...

Seems to early to bring out the top guy, but it would sure fit with that little hint dropped by the flashback, and them trying to figure out who he is.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Awesome episode, IMO.

I loved the sound effect that punctuated Claire's memories...had a creepy quality. I think the scoring and sound design on Lost is top notch.


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Lots of book references, didn't catch all of the titles.


Sawyer was reading Walker Percy's _Lancelot_, which is a rather tortured examination of one man's search for good by exploring evil.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

hefe said:


> I loved the sound effect that punctuated Claire's memories...had a creepy quality. I think the scoring and sound design on Lost is top notch.


I rewound to hear that a few times! Agreed, extremely nice touch.


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## FauxPas (Jan 8, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Lots of book references, didn't catch all of the titles.


The book Locke gave to Henry was The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Mr. Eko scared the crap out of me. I'm pretty sure Henry Gale left a couple of skid marks in his drawers in that scene.

I don't understand the purpose of trashing the lab.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't understand the purpose of trashing the lab.


I don't think they trashed it per se, they just cleared it out in a great big hurry.

Because Claire escaped, and that meant she could bring back the Others (that is, their Others--Jack & Crew) at any moment.

And they didn't want to be there when The Others arrived.

So they left in a great big hurry.

And took everything with them.

In a great big hurry.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Did anyone else hear the button alarm going off while they were walking in the jungle (Kate, Rousseau, and Claire)? We never heard the hatch alarm going off before they actually found the hatch and went inside so I wonder if there is a second hatch with a second alarm...?

For clarity, I know I heard the alarm going off in the manner it does when you haven't pressed the button but I'm not 100% sure _when_ in the episode it was. I am fairly certain it wasn't in any of the flashbacks.


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## ElVee (Feb 20, 2002)

Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why they don't let Claire and the baby sleep in the hatch? Why must a newborn be exposed to the elements and the Others?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think they trashed it per se, they just cleared it out in a great big hurry.


I'll buy that the show's director used artistic licence, but if I'm bailing out of somewhere in a big hurry, I'm not going to waste the energy knocking over a fridge after I've cleaned it out.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I'll buy that the show's director used artistic licence, but if I'm bailing out of somewhere in a big hurry, I'm not going to waste the energy knocking over a fridge after I've cleaned it out.


Well, obviously you're not cut out for Dharma Initiative work!


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## Artfreak (May 19, 2005)

ElVee said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why they don't let Claire and the baby sleep in the hatch? Why must a newborn be exposed to the elements and the Others?


In one of the recent episodes, when Claire was scared of Charlie, she requested to sleep in the hatch. Locke told her that because the alarm went off every 108 minutes, it wouldn't be the best place for a baby.

Dare I say it? I wonder where Michael and Walt are??? Just show me a tidbit of Michael hunting/stalking the Others...Or show me Walt with Alex - SOMETHING!


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Didn't understand the significance of Eko cutting off the tip of his beard, unless it was his way of making a "sacrifice" to show the depth of his repentance.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I'll buy that the show's director used artistic licence, but if I'm bailing out of somewhere in a big hurry, I'm not going to waste the energy knocking over a fridge after I've cleaned it out.


Exactly what I thought...


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

bro1ncos said:


> OK, Tivo cut off recording right as Locke was walking into talk with Henry Gale. What happened next?


Any help here?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Artfreak said:


> Locke told her that because the alarm went off every 108 minutes, it wouldn't be the best place for a baby.


I forget: do they *have to* wait for the alarm? Couldn't they enter the code a minute earlier and prevent the alarm from going off at all?


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## golfnut-n-nh (Nov 30, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Mr. Eko scared the crap out of me. I'm pretty sure Henry Gale left a couple of skid marks in his drawers in that scene.
> 
> I don't understand the purpose of trashing the lab.


Mr. Ecko now has my full and undivided attention!


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Someone asked earlier in the thread what was on Ethan's keychain. I'm pretty sure it was just a Dharma-logo keychain.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Regarding Eko's apology and the cutting of the beard, I was wondering if he knows that Gale is an "other" and will be getting out soon and going back to the other Others. My guess is (and this is only a guess) that Eko thinks that the black smoke and the Others and "the Island" are all connected. He knows the smoke read him, and saw what he did, and he's trying to apologize for it. I almost expeceted him to break Gale out so he could go back and bring his message.

Could the cutting of the beard be some sort of Samson reference? 

Also, they seemed to focus on the cutting down of the tree (by Eko). That's not the first time they've shown him with the trees. What's he planning there? My guess is that he's building a church, but it could be much more than that.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

FauxPas said:


> The book Locke gave to Henry was The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky.





> In 1880 Dostoevsky completed The Brothers Karamazov, the literary effort for which he had been preparing all his life. Compelling, profound, complex, it is the story of a patricide and of the four sons who each had a motive for murder: Dmitry, the sensualist, Ivan, the intellectual; Alyosha, the mystic; and twisted, cunning Smerdyakov, the bastard child. Frequently lurid, nightmarish, always brilliant, the novel plunges the reader into a sordid love triangle, a pathological obsession, and a gripping courtroom drama. But throughout the whole, Dostoevsky searhes for the truth--about man, about life, about the existence of God. A terrifying answer to man's eternal questions, this monumental work remains the crowning achievement of perhaps the finest novelist of all time.


Once again, a great literary reference......

I too thought this was a great episode. I doubt this is the case, but after watching this episode, I get the feeling that one possible "answer" to everything is that there is no Island. The reality is the backstories. Could it be that there is a real Dharma (group) and they are doing a medical study. What we "see" as reality is the effect the medication has on everyone's mind. I doubt it, but after seeing Claire very lucid in the exam room, it just got me thinking..........

Oh and to the person asking about the key chain above, I thought it was another Dharma logo.....shaped just like it.....


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

jlb said:


> I doubt this is the case, but after watching this episode, I get the feeling that one possible "answer" to everything is that there is no Island. The reality is the backstories. Could it be that there is a real Dharma (group) and they are doing a medical study. What we "see" as reality is the effect the medication has on everyone's mind.


Interesting thought. Kinda like the Matrix.


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## Artfreak (May 19, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> I forget: do they *have to* wait for the alarm? Couldn't they enter the code a minute earlier and prevent the alarm from going off at all?


Not sure either, sorry. But remember when they first found the hatch and Desmond had the music turned up rather loud? I wonder if that was his way of blocking the massive sound of the alarm - the alarm would still be heard over the music, but not so well, alarming?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Our "how many groups of 'others' are there?" question just got solved, right? It just coalesced down into 1 group of Others, and then Danielle.


No way, the way I see it.

On the contrary, I think this episode gives us another piece of evidence that there are multiple groups of others, namely:

Who trashed the "hospital?"

I can't think of any reason (although the writers might eventually present one) that Ethan, the clean-shaven Mr. Friendly, et. al. would have trashed and/or abandoned that "hospital" bunker.

I think they were run out of it, by another group of "others".


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

The numbers can only be put in within four minutes of the timer expiring. The keyboard is unresponsive until then.

Jeff, you missed the fact that Claire was obviously drugged the _entire_ time she was with Ethan. That is why she was acting so bubbly.

The alarm you could hear in the jungle was not the same as the button alarm. It was more likely an alarm they pulled in the medical hatch when they discovered Claire was gone.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Great episode!

Personally I think that the hospital crew just left in a great big hurry and they weren't ransacked.

However, I'm not sure what I think about there being two groups of "others" (not counting the main stars of the show who crashed).

The barefooted footstepping ones we saw w/ Walt sure didn't act like the hospital ones.

But why would the Dharma ones need to dress up like the other ones?

Were they one group who splitered? Or did they arrive on the island seperately?

How long have they been there?

Whichever group took Alex must have been there at least 16-18 years (based on the age of Alex last night) which means they could have got to the island (or split from the other group) as late as 1990. That would explain the Other from the button-hatch meeting Jack off-island and Henry Gale's knowledge of Stephen King.

But the Dharma project, dating based on the age of the film, started much before 1990.

Could the savage-others have devolved into ruthless savages (they got sick) and then the hospital-others have been sent to study them / come up with a cure?

And that's why the hospital ones are stealing babies.

But that STILL doesn't explain the button or how the button-hatch other guy ran into Jack in the real world, etc.

I love this show!!!


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## headytiger (Oct 17, 2003)

Any theories on why the others are dressing up like bums when they go into the jungle?


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Claire escaped, so they knew the Others (that is, their Others--Jack & Crew) could be coming at any time.


Correct. They didn' t know that Rousseau bonked her on the head, causing temporary amnesia.


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## rizzlebizzle (Oct 14, 2005)

Big_Daddy said:


> Correct. They didn' t know that Rousseau bonked her on the head, causing temporary amnesia.


the fact that they dress up just confirms to them that they are participating in some sort of experiment, no? what must kate be thinking after finding that beard and glue? How come the lost'ees never talk about their situation?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Whichever group took Alex must have been there at least 16-18 years (based on the age of Alex last night) which means they could have got to the island (or split from the other group) as late as 1990. That would explain the Other from the button-hatch meeting Jack off-island and Henry Gale's knowledge of Stephen King.
> 
> But the Dharma project, dating based on the age of the film, started much before 1990.


The Darhma orientation film had a copyright date of 1980 on the end of it.

The narration in it stated that the Darhma inititive started in 1970.

Since sometime between 1970 and the film's creation in 1980 there was time for an "incident" that re-defined the use of the "swan" bunker (where they enter the numbers), I think we can assume that Darhma built all the stuff they built on the island in the early 70's, and the "incident" happened in the late 70's or even 1980. The "orientation" film appeared to be a response to the "incident".


----------



## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

That, or they are trying to mimic the other Others, the "savage" Others.


----------



## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

On Eko, I actually thought that his beard was two separate 'curls', possibly representing the two lives he took. Maybe after he 'confessed' to Gale, he did not need to carry those souls around and could cut off the beard. Just a thought.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> The alarm you could hear in the jungle was not the same as the button alarm. It was more likely an alarm they pulled in the medical hatch when they discovered Claire was gone.


My thoughts exactly.

However, I liked how it was _similar_ to the button alarm, but different.

The Lost sound mix people made it sound like it was generated by the same type of electronic oscillator or sounder device, but had a somewhat different pattern. This would be logical if the two alarms were designed and installed by the same people (which they obviously were, they were installed by the Darhma people).


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

tms317 said:


> On Eko, I actually thought that his beard was two separate 'curls', possibly representing the two lives he took. Maybe after he 'confessed' to Gale, he did not need to carry those souls around and could cut off the beard. Just a thought.


That's exactly what I thought...


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

Test said:


> ha...
> 
> what was the song playing on that mobile in the baby crib? sounded familiar....from this show? didnt claire say somthing about a song for her baby...?


I don't know what lullabye it is, but it's the riff from "Dr. Stephen" by Stephen Lynch!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TeeSee said:


> Did you see the preview for the next episode?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I'd say that was well-done foreshadowing then. Because I didn't even notice the pause really, or if I did I just thought it had more to do with Claire having sorta put her in her place, yet it occurred to me that birth control options are pretty limited on the island. My point is I thought of her possibly becoming pregnant without noticing that they were purposely foreshadowing it. Of course, I could just be slow to pick up on things...


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

tms317 said:


> On Eko, I actually thought that his beard was two separate 'curls', possibly representing the two lives he took. Maybe after he 'confessed' to Gale, he did not need to carry those souls around and could cut off the beard. Just a thought.


yea thats what i thought...

people use rubberband to remind them of things they dont want to forget...

he had two bands wrapped up in his beard as a reminder of the two people he killed...almost a reminder that he had to seek forgiveness

after he confessed and asked for forgiveness i guess he didnt need them anymore


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> However, I liked how it was _similar_ to the button alarm, but different.
> 
> The Lost sound mix people made it sound like it was generated by the same type of electronic oscillator or sounder device, but had a somewhat different pattern. This would be logical if the two alarms were designed and installed by the same people (which they obviously were, they were installed by the Darhma people).


I'm glad someone else heard that, I thought I imagined it.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Who the heck are Hanso and DeGroot?? I keep seeing people refer to them but have no idea who they are.

I thought this was a mediocre episode. Not a red herring episode but still a bit manipulative.

I think that the others dress like bums because to look clean shaven and pristine might "blow their cover" and make people realize that they aren't savage freaks.

Why did Ecko apologize? Is that a serious question? He killed 2 people who are likely friends of "Henry Gale". Why wouldn't he apologize? He seems to be sure that the guy is an Other.

I think that there is only one group, and they are injecting children with something that makes them goofy, then sending them out to the island.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

As far as multiple groups of others...

Could it be that one group is the group that Ethan and Zeke are in and then there is an "infected" group as well?

Just a thought.

I liked this episode. We learned a little. We know that the group that Ethan and Zeke are in are in fact civilized, have access to lots of material things (clothes, baby room things, medical equipement, etc). This leads me to believe that this group has access to the outside world somehow.


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## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

The airplane mobile over the crib combined with the song "Catch A Falling Star and Put it In My Pocket" seemed like a perfect metaphor for what's really going on. The Dharma people attract "lost people" to the island through some mysterious process involving psychic connections and transportation accidents, and then mess with their heads in a laboratory that combines "Lord Of The Flies" and Sartre's "No Exit." The whole situation has echoes of classic psych experiements including Philip Zimbardo's infamous Stanford Prison Study and Stanley Milgram's experiments on compliance and button pushing, plus BF Skinner of course. 

The actor who plays Henry Gale is so incredibly creepy--to me, choosing to cast him is screaming "Other" from the get-go. I loved the scene with Mr. Eko. I would definitely watch Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje in any role he'd take on in the future. I've never seen more expressive eyes and I love the contradictions in his character. Unlike Locke and Jack, who can seem just inconsistent sometimes, Mr. Eko fully embodies his seemingly irreconcilable contradictions.

Does anyone think that the series might end at the end of this season? I absolutely adore the show, but I can't help but wonder if Lindelof and Abrams would seriously consider going out with a bang (of explanation, we can hope!) rather than succumb to the fate of the X-Files and Twin Peaks, who wore out their welcomes in a sad way. If this is the case, I hope it remains a surprise and the media shuts up about it. So if you have any actual info on this topic, please post it with a spoiler white-out. I am completely speculating and have no info on this topic, so I don't feel like I am spoiling.

One more train of thought--the baby crying throughout the episode was effectively annoying. The sound effects and flashback montages freaked me out like a 12-year old girl who regrets sneaking out of bed late at night to watch "The Exorcist" on cable. I watched the epidsode right before going to sleep and it was truly disturbing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Who trashed the "hospital?"
> 
> I can't think of any reason (although the writers might eventually present one) that Ethan, the clean-shaven Mr. Friendly, et. al. would have trashed and/or abandoned that "hospital" bunker.


I guess I must be on "ignore"...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TAsunder said:


> Who the heck are Hanso and DeGroot?? I keep seeing people refer to them but have no idea who they are.


From the orientation video Hanso was the "founder" of the Dharma Initiative and DeGroot was one of the professors/doctors working on it.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

jeff125va said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say that was well-done foreshadowing then. Because I didn't even notice the pause really, or if I did I just thought it had more to do with Claire having sorta put her in her place, yet it occurred to me that birth control options are pretty limited on the island. My point is I thought of her possibly becoming pregnant without noticing that they were purposely foreshadowing it. Of course, I could just be slow to pick up on things...





Spoiler



Assuming it is for Sun, the question should be, did she get pregnant with Jin before they got to the Island, did she get pregnant with Jin once on the Island, did she get pregnant by someone else before getting to the Island, did she get pregnant by someone else on the Island, or did the Others inseminate her?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

My thoughts:

I didn't understand Jack's flip-flop on their hostage....and where the heck was Sayid during all of this?

It was obvious that Claire was under some kind of drug during her stay in the bunker and that's why she didn't try to flee and was willing to give up the baby.

If the "others" cleared out of that bunker because they were afraid Jack & crew would find them, then why did they leave anything behind, and especially their disguises?

It still cracks me up seeing people sleep/live on the beach when apperantly there are bunkers and electricity all over the island


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I guess I must be on "ignore"...


Rest assured, you are not. 

I read your post, I simply have a different take. 

The point I was making was not really addressing your earlier post. It was in response to the opinion that we now have evidence that there is only one group of "others": Ethan's/Mr. Friendly's group. I was expressing a counter to that opinion.

I was saying that I think the "condition" they found the hospital in is evidence of other-others.

It doesn't look to me like they simply "cleared out", it looks like a "battle" took place there, IMHO.

When Claire was there, all the lights in the examining room worked. When they came back, about half of those lights worked.

Would half of the bulbs have burned out in the 3 weeks or so that have elapsed since Claire was there?

No way!

Would their act of fleeing, even hurridly have broken half the light bulbs?

Seems doubtfull.

Lots of other damage was also apparent to the place, that made no sense had Ethan et. al. simply left, even in a big hurry.

Something violent and dramatic has happened at that place!

Furthermore, I don't think that Claire's escape was cause for them to clear out so fast.

Why would they have reason to fear the "losties" come looking for them?

They should have been confident that Claire didn't remember her time there, and even if Jack, Clair, et. al. discovered their "hospital", had they still been there, they could have locked the door and defended it.

Ethan's group doesn't exactly seem the type to run from a potential confrontation.

If all the "damage" we saw was caused by them "clearing out in a hurry", why did they clear out in such a desperate and dramatic way that all that damage occurred?

IMHO, they were forced or chased out, by other others.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

pmyers said:


> .....It still cracks me up seeing people sleep/live on the beach when apperantly there are bunkers and electricity all over the island


Well, most likely this is due to the fact that it will be quicker to grab their gear and torches and head on up to tribal council.....


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

> If all the "damage" we saw was caused by them "clearing out in a hurry", why did they clear out in such a desperate and dramatic way that all that damage occurred?


I agree. If they were clearing out in a hurry, why then was the fridge thrown down? Seems likely that something happened there. Things would be vacated, but everything would be probably in working condition (lights still useable, fridge still up and plugged).

UNLESS they did this to feed the "Losties" mis-information...which I think is unlikely, but still a possibility.

You know one thing that might not have been addressed is that what if Danielle is really an "other" and she is helping spread the mis-information? Seems really unlikely that someone living by themselves for 16 years with the constant fear of being overtaken would just all of a sudden be able to have any type of conversation with anyone....


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I may be Smeeking but I didn't notice this addressed yet:

I think this is the first Lost episode ever with _no flashbacks whatsoever to the "real world", before the crash!_

All the flashbacks in this show were of Claire's ordeal _on the island_, and were depicting her slowly returning memory of it. (Very cool and effectively done, BTW. :up: )


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

As much as I like this show, the story of the show is taking too long to play out. We've gone weeks without really moving the story of the island along. We had the Charlie Goes Nuts episode. We had the Sayid Tortures a Guy episode but we are no closer to understanding what the island is, who the others (insert number of 'other' groups here) _really_ are or what the Dharma project is about. What about the electromagnets that apparently affected the gun case key around Jack's neck in the first episode? Are they just for providing power? What about the artwork on the wall in the hatch? What about the fact that everything in the hatch looks like it was taken from the set of _Three's Company_ except the UltraModern Washer and Dryer? What happened to Walt and Michael? Character development is great but developing or moving along the story is equally as great.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

> As much as I like this show, the story of the show is taking too long to play out. We've gone weeks without really moving the story of the island along. We had the Charlie Goes Nuts episode. We had the Sayid Tortures a Guy episode but we are no closer to understanding what the island is, who the others (insert number of 'other' groups here) really are or what the Dharma project is about. What about the electromagnets that apparently affected the gun case key around Jack's neck in the first episode? Are they just for providing power? What about the artwork on the wall in the hatch? What about the fact that everything in the hatch looks like it was taken from the set of Three's Company except the UltraModern Washer and Dryer? Character development is great but developing or moving along the story is equally as great.


This is part of the down-side of being a great show!

The first season they weren't holding anything back because they had nothing to lose. Now they know they have a hit, and a possible long running hit at that which means they have to hold the reigns a little bit to squeeze more shows out...IMO


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Something drastic happened in the hospital judging by the dust and dirt on the walls (as well as broken lights). I wonder if this could have been caused by Lock missing the countdown by a split second (in the previous episode)?



Spoiler



Also, could Mike be the father of Suns baby? They always seem to have some sort of a connection and it would be pretty easy to tell without a DNA test .


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## Tanya (Apr 23, 2003)

1. In an episode last season, didn't Claire wake up screaming that they were sticking needles in her (pregnant) stomach BEFORE she was kidnapped? 

2. I think that perhaps Henry Gale is both telling the truth and is an other. He really did crash in his balloon and his wife really did die, but he is also infected and is now an other due to the infection. Or perhaps not.

3. That Mr. Eko scene was well done in a terrifying, gasping, cover-your-eyes sort of way.

4. Seriously - do they have no mothers among the writers - you do NOT leave a sick infant who needs to nurse (more than ever if he has fever to prevent dehydration). What if she got captured or killed? I don't see a supply of wet nurses or formula available. 

5. Okay - I am waiting for the shrink to offer some explanation of why these people don't talk to each other about anything. It is driving me nuts.

6. Next week looks good. Can't wait to see the response given to what was posted in the spoilerized part.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Did anybody notice the rubber baby doll that Claire was carrying during the scene when she, the shrink chick and Kate are walking down the beach? It's weird to me that they used a real baby for the rash-makeup scenes, but a cheap prop was used for a simple shot like that. At one point you can see the "baby's" rubber arm jumping out of Claire's grip and her attempt to catch it.

How many people have the same kind of mobile that was used in the bunker crib? (minus the planes, of course  ) Again, the props dept got lazy. You could still see some of the colors showing through the quick spray-paint job.

Does anybody think the song's title (Catch a falling star) is a reference to the others bringing the plane down to "catch" Claire's "BAEHBY"?


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

pmyers said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> If the "others" cleared out of that bunker because they were afraid Jack & crew would find them, then why did they leave anything behind, and especially their disguises?


Well, they really didn't leave much behind, did they? Even the art on Aaron's walls were gone.

But the disguise is interesting. I assumed that was Zeke's - but Zeke met Jack and co. well after Claire was kidnapped. Maybe it was Ethan's disguise, as he didn't need it after Charlie shot him. And Ethan didn't want his "savage man disguise" when he infiltrated the survivors' camp as he needed to fit in.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TR7spyder said:


> Something drastic happened in the hospital judging by the dust and dirt on the walls (as well as broken lights). I wonder if this could have been caused by Lock missing the countdown by a split second (in the previous episode)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Mike? You mean Michael? And there was no reference during the episode to Sun having a baby.

But to answer the question, no, absolutely no way whatsoever.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

TR7spyder said:


> Something drastic happened in the hospital judging by the dust and dirt on the walls (as well as broken lights). I wonder if this could have been caused by Lock missing the countdown by a split second (in the previous episode)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I assume you were referring to the preview for next week's episode. If so, we generally user "spoiler" tags around that info so folks can read the thread without worrying about seeing info from the following week before the episode airs. I put them around the text in your quote in my reply. You would have to go to your original post to make the update there.

To use spoiler tags....just put the following around your text (I put an extra space in between the s and p so you can actually see the text: [s poiler] [/s poiler]

I apologize if you know how to do this and just forgot or if you were referring to another episode where this information was already aired.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> It doesn't look to me like they simply "cleared out", it looks like a "battle" took place there, IMHO......
> 
> If all the "damage" we saw was caused by them "clearing out in a hurry", why did they clear out in such a desperate and dramatic way that all that damage occurred?
> 
> IMHO, they were forced or chased out, by other others.


Disagree... if it was a battle, or ransacked, there would have been alot more clutter, upside down things, broken glass, just general look of chaos. Instead, things looked cleaned out. The whole baby room was gone except for the rocking chair. You would think there would be more stuffed knocked off the walls, on the floor, rather than just gone. They took all of the medicine and didn't break anything. It looks like they were in a hurry to leave, thus explaining why they didn't take everything. But didn't see "all that damage".



Fish Man said:


> I may be Smeeking but I didn't notice this addressed yet:
> 
> I think this is the first Lost episode ever with no flashbacks whatsoever to the "real world", before the crash!
> 
> All the flashbacks in this show were of Claire's ordeal on the island, and were depicting her slowly returning memory of it. (Very cool and effectively done, BTW. )


I was going to say that. I was a tad bit disappointed... I thought it was going to be a Claire backstory. Since hers in the first quarter of last season, we haven't had one, and I am dying to know more about her backstory. Meanwhile, Jack, Kate, Charlie, Locke, Sayid...all have had at least 3 each.

And after all the complaints about pace and reveals, and we get this huge bombshell this week, I can't believe there are some out there who think this episode didn't reveal enough!!


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

AJRitz said:


> For God's sake, the guy says his name is Henry Gale.
> 
> Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in the Wizard of Oz. He's full of crap.


Figures a little girl would remember this.

Oh wait, new avatar rules.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Tanya said:


> 5. Okay - I am waiting for the shrink to offer some explanation of why these people don't talk to each other about anything. It is driving me nuts.


It's been shown several times that the people DO talk to each other about some of these things, it's just not explicitly shown.

Not to say they sit around and discuss everything, of course. They do seem strangely secretive about some things. But it is only a script, and it's whatever serves the story.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> I may be Smeeking but I didn't notice this addressed yet:
> 
> I think this is the first Lost episode ever with _no flashbacks whatsoever to the "real world", before the crash!_
> 
> All the flashbacks in this show were of Claire's ordeal _on the island_, and were depicting her slowly returning memory of it. (Very cool and effectively done, BTW. :up: )


"The Other 48 Days" also only focused on events on the island.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

ElVee said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why they don't let Claire and the baby sleep in the hatch? Why must a newborn be exposed to the elements and the Others?


Yeah, there's a couch in there. And beds.

I'd imagine there being a queue to sleep in the hatch by now. But perhaps that's just too realistic.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

> I apologize if you know how to do this and just forgot or if you were referring to another episode where this information was already aired.


That was an oversight, sorry about that.  I made sure to edit my post.

I thought that since the previous already aired, it was no-longer a spoiler


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## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

I just want to know what happened to Walk and Michael!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Tanya said:


> 5. Okay - I am waiting for the shrink to offer some explanation of why these people don't talk to each other about anything. It is driving me nuts.


That's something you need to reconcile yourself to. It's the nature of the program and the storytelling. Lindelof and Cuse addressed that a little in an early podcast. They specifically avoid using a lot of expositional dialog. I wouldn't expect an explanation within the framework of the story.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TR7spyder said:


> That was an oversight, sorry about that.  I made sure to edit my post.
> 
> I thought that since the previous already aired, it was no-longer a spoiler


We'll cut the newbie some slack.. 

Information aired in previews are considered spoilers because many people avoid watching them. What has aired in the actual episode and previous episodes and pure speculation is fair game.

It's a forum-wide policy for TV show discussion threads.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

I am dubious about them having left back when Claire "escaped." Didn't we _just see_ Mr. Friendly / Zeke in the jungle _with beard_ a few days ago (or maybe a week in "island time")?

I suppose it's possible that he has more than one, but my thought was that they had really _just_ left.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Did anyone else notice the extremely fake baby that Claire was carrying early in the show as she walked along the beach? I mean that thing didn't look remotely real. Almost seems like maybe they had a last minute problem with the infant on the set and had to settle for a poor stand-in.

Did it look fake in SD, or is that just another bonus for us HD viewers?


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

Wasn't "Catch a falling star" the song Claire asked someone to sing to her baby back in the original Claire centric episode? Seems like I remember her talking about a song and having someone sing to her unborn baby because that is what Claire's dad used to sing to her.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

A small detail that really bothered me during this episode was when Locke was shown doing the dishes and he appeared to clear half a plate full of food into the garbage. Do these people really have that much food that they can afford to waste some like this? I thought it had already been established that they already burned through all the food that was in the hatch, and since there are over 40 of them on the beach, the gathering of food for that many people would be a monumental task.

I echo what Big_Daddy said about the timing. If the hospital hatch was cleared out because of Claire escaping, why was Zeke's beard still in there when he apparently used it several weeks after Claire escaped?


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> ...
> I echo what *Big_Daddy* said about the timing. If the hospital hatch was cleared out because of Claire escaping, why was Zeke's beard still in there when he apparently used it several weeks after Claire escaped?


Is that my new nickname??


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

The escape hatch in the hallway... what are they escaping from? and where does it go?

Food for thought.


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## ireland967 (Feb 27, 2003)

hefe said:


> Did anyone else notice the extremely fake baby that Claire was carrying early in the show as she walked along the beach? I mean that thing didn't look remotely real. Almost seems like maybe they had a last minute problem with the infant on the set and had to settle for a poor stand-in.
> 
> Did it look fake in SD, or is that just another bonus for us HD viewers?


Definitely looked fake, and the way Claire was holding him was odd too - she wasn't supporting his head at all and walking pretty quickly along the uneven beach, his head bopping up and down with each step.

Spoiler regarding appearance of characters in future episodes:



Spoiler



I've read the actor playing Walt hit a pretty serious growth spurt over the last six months, and his screentime will continue to be very minimal


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Big_Daddy said:


> But the disguise is interesting. I assumed that was Zeke's - but Zeke met Jack and co. well after Claire was kidnapped. Maybe it was Ethan's disguise, as he didn't need it after Charlie shot him. And Ethan didn't want his "savage man disguise" when he infiltrated the survivors' camp as he needed to fit in.


The actor who played the clean-shaven man that Ethan was talking to just outside the nursery was M.C. Gainey

This is the same actor who played "Bearded man" or "Mr. Friendly" (depending on which on-line episode credits you look up) in the episode "The Hunting Party" and "Exodus part 2", in which he took Walt.

There is no question, IMHO, that the clean-shaven older man Ethan was seen conferring with is supposed to be the wearer of the fake beard. We've seen that same actor wearing the beard twice now.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ScottE22 said:


> Is that my new nickname??


No, you smeeked.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

ScottE22 said:


> I am dubious about them having left back when Claire "escaped." Didn't we _just see_ Mr. Friendly / Zeke in the jungle _with beard_ a few days ago (or maybe a week in "island time")?
> 
> I suppose it's possible that he has more than one, but my thought was that they had really _just_ left.


Excellent observation! :up:

I hadn't thought of that!

Indeed, finding the beard in the "trashed" hospital bunker suggests they abandoned it within the last few days.

If this is true, this totally trashes the theory that the reason the others left the hospital was because Claire escaped.

As you say, it's _possible_ the guy has multiple fake beards.

It's also _possible_ that he could have returned to the abandoned hospital bunker to retrieve it when he wanted to wear it to confront the losties. But if he did that, why would he put it back in the "hospital"? Why not just keep it wherever he was staying now?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

What if Claire & crew accidently set off some type of intruder alarm and they left the bunker quickly through the "Escape Hatch"? Or, somebody tipped them off that she was coming? Rouso?


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## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

Just to throw this out there... these people seem to be doing VERY well for being stranded on the island for so long. Compare how they look to people on survivor and at 30 days in they should be malnurished, dirty, and their clothes should be falling apart.

of course, they do have a lot of stuff not available to those on survivor, but still. Clair looked almost like she just got out of a salon through most of the show.

overall it was a good show, but I fell asleep toward the end, not out of boredom, I didn't get to start watching it until after midnight.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

And if you believe that the place was ransacked, why didn't they go through the lockers? Stuff was all neat and orderly in there.

I think that the bunker is still in use, just not for purposes of delivering a baby anymore. It just looked like they moved out all the hospital stuff really quickly.

Plus, we found out that they only DRESS like they live in the wild. They must have some living quarters nearby. I'm in the camp who believes that there is only ONE group of "others".


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Excellent observation! :up:
> 
> I hadn't thought of that!
> 
> ...


I always keep at least one fake beard at work, one at home, and one in my car. Mr. Friendly probably does too.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> And if you believe that the place was ransacked, why didn't they go through the lockers? Stuff was all neat and orderly in there.
> 
> I think that the bunker is still in use, just not for purposes of delivering a baby anymore. It just looked like they moved out all the hospital stuff really quickly.
> 
> Plus, we found out that they only DRESS like they live in the wild. They must have some living quarters nearby. I'm in the camp who believes that there is only ONE group of "others".


Why would they break a bunch of the lightbulbs in the examination room and bust up the florescent light fixtures in the hallway if the explanation is that they are still using the hospital bunker, but they just don't happen to be in it right now?

I'm pretty sure when we've seen Zeke in his fake beard he and his comrades haven't been barefoot, and their clothes haven't been tattered rags.

The tattered, barefoot, dirty people with kids dragging teddy bears through the jungle that we've seen glimpses of from time to time definitely look like a different group to me!


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

It seems a bit odd that they would take every little thing off the "nursery" walls, but leave behind the make-up kit. It wasn't like they just dropped the beard - there was the glue and the hat, and who knows what else. I was wondering if all the decor was an hallucination of Claire's.

I would have felt so much better if I had seen Kate talking to just one person, showing them the kit, after they returned. I would like to see a search party go and do a thorough recon on that bunker, it seemed rather large. There might be other supplies they could use - food or even medicine.

Anyone else notice how it started pouring down rain right before they found the hospital bunker?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Granny said:


> It seems a bit odd that they would take every little thing off the "nursery" walls, but leave behind the make-up kit. It wasn't like they just dropped the beard - there was the glue and the hat, and who knows what else. I was wondering if all the decor was an hallucination of Claire's.


That has crossed my mind too.

EDIT: But after considering the logic of the post below, I've dismissed it. Not a hallucination, IMHO.


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

Granny said:


> It seems a bit odd that they would take every little thing off the "nursery" walls, but leave behind the make-up kit. It wasn't like they just dropped the beard - there was the glue and the hat, and who knows what else. I was wondering if all the decor was an hallucination of Claire's.


But didn't Roussau and Claire see the outlines of the wall decor in the baby's room when they went back in? That stuff was really there, it was just removed.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> Why would they break a bunch of the lightbulbs in the examination room and bust up the florescent light fixtures in the hallway if the explanation is that they are still using the hospital bunker, but they just don't happen to be in it right now?
> 
> I'm pretty sure when we've seen Zeke in his fake beard he and his comrades haven't been barefoot, and their clothes haven't been tattered rags.
> 
> The tattered, barefoot, dirty people with kids dragging teddy bears through the jungle that we've seen glimpses of from time to time definitely look like a different group to me!


Along with the fake beard (carefully placed in a box neatly in his locker), there were "tattered rags" hanging in the locker. Definitely not the nice clothes we saw him in in Claire's flashback.

Where were the busted florescent light fixtures? Once they got the electricity on, everything was fine wasn't it? I was assuming the flickering light was like the safety light that always stays on during a power outage or something.

Ok, so the tailie kids were taken by some group. The "other" that Ana Lucia killed was part of that group. They had a "list". Ethan was supposed to make a "list". So we can assume that Ethan and the other guy are part of the same group...along with Mr. Friendly. So we see the kids with the teddy bear walking in the woods we can assume that they are with that group right? Where is the other group?

Maybe I got the kids mixed up though? Did the tailie kids have a teddy bear?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

To those who think that the lab was ransacked rather than evacuated. Why would someone who ransacked the place bother to cover it up with a dark tarp and cover that tarp with foliage. It seems obvious that the place was cleared out. Perhaps in a hurry. I'm not sure what the point of knocking the refrigerator over was, but I don't think it had to do with the wild others. Perhaps someone was just so pissed that Claire and the baby got away that they just had to take it out on something.

Something that I felt was odd was that the alarms sound and they rush out to find Claire. They took the time to stop and light torches rather than grab the flashlights? Did everyone also get into costume first as well? Are they that devoted to their illusion that they would risk Claire's escape in order to stay in character? Or does it show that Claire's baby just isn't vital enough for them to blow their cover.

-Mike


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

My wife seems to remember from a previous Claire episode that she had a vision of an airliner baby mobile. Does anybody else remember that? Was it before of after she was abducted? Was it a premonition or flashback? Or is my wife just mistaken?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

mask2343 said:


> Maybe I got the kids mixed up though? Did the tailie kids have a teddy bear?


Yes. Since they are the only other children besides Walt (that we know of).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Wasn't the "food" that locke threw out just rinds from the fruit he had just given the guy?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Where were the busted florescent light fixtures?


Yes. Clearly visible after the power came back on. Several fixtures that were intact in the flashbacks were physically broken, dangling precariously, etc. Only about half of them worked (and they all worked in the flashbacks).

Furthermore, only about half of the parabolic examination room lights worked after Kate restored the power. Also, in HD, it looked like many of the non-working ones had broken parabolic reflectors. Others appeared to be dislodged from their mounts. In the flashbacks, they were all in perfect condition.



mask2343 said:


> Once they got the electricity on, everything was fine wasn't it?


Far from it.



mask2343 said:


> I was assuming the flickering light was like the safety light that always stays on during a power outage or something.


Probably true (one light stays on when the power is out). The flickering light was partially dislodged and dangling at a funny angle, in addition to being flickering. None were dislodged like this in the flashbacks.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jubrand said:


> But didn't Roussau and Claire see the outlines of the wall decor in the baby's room when they went back in? That stuff was really there, it was just removed.


There was. That seemed to be there to prove that the decorations had been there.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> My wife seems to remember from a previous Claire episode that she had a vision of an airliner baby mobile. Does anybody else remember that? Was it before of after she was abducted? Was it a premonition or flashback? Or is my wife just mistaken?


Yes. In the episode "Raised by Another" (the only episode with Clare flashbacks, prior to the crash, anyway) she had a dream in which she saw a crib with the exact same airplane mobile.

In the dream, just after seeing the crib with the mobile, she sees a vision of Locke, with one black eye and one white eye. Locke scolds her for allowing her baby to be taken, saying "Why did you do that, Claire?"

This was _before_ she was abducted, and at the time, appeared to be foreshadowning of her abduction.

Now, it clearly foreshadows even more.


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## headytiger (Oct 17, 2003)

Perhaps the monster ransacked the lab.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

The visions that Claire had cannot be taken as gospel. Even though we think she's remembering accurately, Libby did mention the possibility of mixing pre-crash realities with post-crash realities. What if she's encountered Mr. Friendly off the island, and that's when he was clean shaven. Clearly there's a disguise so the beard likely isn't real no matter what, but it definitely blurs the timeline. I don't think they would have given Libby that dialogue unless there was a chance Claire had her wires crossed to some extent. 

Also, on another line of thinking, if there was some altercation at the medicinal hatch that caused them to leave in a hurry and under duress, that doesn't definitively mean it was from another group. Mr. Friendly sounded pretty fearful of "him" finding out that Ethan took the losties in the wrong order. What if the big boss returned and found out that not only did they deviate from the plan, but then Claire escaped on top of it. Just because they are of the same group doesn't preclude him from kicking his own subordinate's asses.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

So, in the arrow hatch they find a glass eye. In the maternity hatch they find a fake beard. I'm sensing a theme here - I can hardly wait for S03E02...



Spoiler



When our lostaways discover a mysterious prosthetic nostril.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

hefe said:


> Did anyone else notice the extremely fake baby that Claire was carrying early in the show as she walked along the beach? I mean that thing didn't look remotely real. Almost seems like maybe they had a last minute problem with the infant on the set and had to settle for a poor stand-in.
> 
> Did it look fake in SD, or is that just another bonus for us HD viewers?


ahem....
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3823534#post3823534



DUDE_NJX said:


> Did anybody notice the rubber baby doll that Claire was carrying during the scene when she, the shrink chick and Kate are walking down the beach? It's weird to me that they used a real baby for the rash-makeup scenes, but a cheap prop was used for a simple shot like that. At one point you can see the "baby's" rubber arm jumping out of Claire's grip and her attempt to catch it.
> 
> How many people have the same kind of mobile that was used in the bunker crib? (minus the planes, of course  ) Again, the props dept got lazy. You could still see some of the colors showing through the quick spray-paint job.
> 
> Does anybody think the song's title (Catch a falling star) is a reference to the others bringing the plane down to "catch" Claire's "BAEHBY"?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Mike Farrington said:


> My wife seems to remember from a previous Claire episode that she had a vision of an airliner baby mobile. Does anybody else remember that? Was it before of after she was abducted? Was it a premonition or flashback? Or is my wife just mistaken?


It was a dream, at least the way it was presented, that happened before she was abducted...in the episode, _Raised by Another._


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

DUDE_NJX said:


> ahem....
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3823534#post3823534


Yeah, OK, I meant to say "Yes, I also noticed..." 

And my last post is no smeek of Fish Man. I was multitasking and it took too long to compose and submit...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think they trashed it per se, they just cleared it out in a great big hurry.
> 
> Because Claire escaped, and that meant she could bring back the Others (that is, their Others--Jack & Crew) at any moment.
> 
> ...


And how would clearing out a fridge in a hurry, cause it to tip over? That had to have been intentional. We haven't seen any evidence of earth quakes on the island between when Claire was in the "hospital" as a "patient" and when she went back last night.

Edited:

Crap, I smeeked. I should have read three more posts before I posted.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Whichever group took Alex must have been there at least 16-18 years (based on the age of Alex last night) which means they could have got to the island (or split from the other group) as late as 1990. That would explain the Other from the button-hatch meeting Jack off-island and Henry Gale's knowledge of Stephen King.


Desmond is not an Other.


Big_Daddy said:


> Correct. They didn' t know that Rousseau bonked her on the head, causing temporary amnesia.


I was more under the impression that once she was free of whatever they were using to drug her, she didn't remember anything from her drug-induced stupor.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

crowfan said:


> Someone asked earlier in the thread what was on Ethan's keychain. I'm pretty sure it was just a Dharma-logo keychain.


Yeah, you can get those in the Dharma giftshop in the lobby of the hatch.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> Desmond is not an Other.


.....according to Desmond.

If you believe all of his story, then sure. We've watched others lie (convincingly) before - Ethan, and Goodwin. Danielle seemed pretty confident that Henry Gale would lie, for a long, long time. For all we know, Desmond's story was all a convincing lie.

True, he did look genuinely interested in the answer about what one snowman said to the other, but maybe that's just him not knowing who's coming to relieve him?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Two things:

1) When Jack and Locke were talking about long term plans, and Jack asked if he had a better idea, I thought someone had walked into my house and was in my kitchen behind me and my wife.. Very good 5.1 surroundsound placement of Henry Gale's "How about letting me go?" behind us and to the left. Anyone else appreciate it at the time?

2) With respect to there being no off-island flashbacks, maybe it's because these were really Aron's flashbacks to his in-womb memory of being stabbed with a needle?  (just kidding)


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> I thought the "hospital" looked ransacked. If so, this would lend credence to the theory that there are two groups of others. The "civilized" others: Zeke, Ethan, et. al. and some "wild" others: the mysterious barefoot people the tailies encountered.


NO! I thought this episode would finally silence the speculation of two groups of others, which I never agreed with. The others dress up in rags when they walk the island. The spy in the tailies group was well dressed because he was playing a different role, like Ethan.

Why was the refrigerator knocked over and lights broken? I agree with scheckeNYK that it could have been the boss was pissed off Zeke and Ethan lost Claire and had a tantrum. What I'm more perplexed by is why they left their disguises in the lockers. They must have known that Claire could lead Jack and crew back to the medical station, why get sloppy and leave behind that evidence? And if that is Zeke's only disguise, why is he still storing it there? That would mean he's been back there recently.

I thought it was interesting the abandoned nursery had dust outlines where things had been hanging on the walls. It would take years for that to happen unless there was some big source of dust down there, so this room was furnished long before the plane crash. Is it possible this was Alex's room during her childhood?

Now that we know "the others" are playing dress up and putting on a show for the Lostaways, I think the Orientation film might also be fake. We had people here saying Zeke's beard looked fake. It turns out it was. We also had people here saying the Orientation film did not look authentic, it looked like someone did a poor job of trying to make it look old using modern equipment. Maybe that is also true.

They appear to have given up on abducting Aaron. Why?

In another shout out to message board criticisms, the writers threw in a line about Claire flying during her third trimester. :up:

This was a great episode. Even the flashbacks were on the island and directly related to the island mystery. Awesome. I also thought they answered a LOT of questions. No character development "real world" flashbacks, answers to lots of questions, and still I see complaints in this thread that it's not enough. I'm convinced some people won't be satisfied with this show no matter what.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> 1) When Jack and Locke were talking about long term plans, and Jack asked if he had a better idea, I thought someone had walked into my house and was in my kitchen behind me and my wife.. Very good 5.1 surroundsound placement of Henry Gale's "How about letting me go?" behind us and to the left. Anyone else appreciate it at the time?


Yeah, I rewound that part and turned it up to listen again. That's the coolest surround effect I've heard on a TV show since I hooked up my 7.1.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

jubrand said:


> I always keep at least one fake beard at work, one at home, and one in my car. Mr. Friendly probably does too.


Tom Cruise's "beard" is pregnant! Interestingly, the actor that plays Ethan is Tom's cousin too, so there is a connection! I wonder if Ethan will try to take their baby!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Maybe someday down the road we'll see Alex's flashback episode, when she helps Walt escape, and trashes the place..


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> 1) When Jack and Locke were talking about long term plans, and Jack asked if he had a better idea, I thought someone had walked into my house and was in my kitchen behind me and my wife.. Very good 5.1 surroundsound placement of Henry Gale's "How about letting me go?" behind us and to the left. Anyone else appreciate it at the time?


Yes - I, too, thought it sounded like it was coming from your kitchen.

In all seriousness, though, I did really appreciate this. My speakers aren't ideally positioned for surround sound (my wife for some reason objects to wires everywhere and/or wireless speakers on stands, etc....), but occasionally a sound is 'positioned' well enough that I'll be able to appreciate it nonetheless. This was one of those occasions. So good it made me smile.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Maybe someday down the road we'll see Alex's flashback episode, when she helps Walt escape, and trashes the place..


I like it.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

DLiquid said:


> What I'm more perplexed by is why they left their disguises in the lockers. They must have known that Claire could lead Jack and crew back to the medical station, why get sloppy and leave behind that evidence? And if that is Zeke's only disguise, why is he still storing it there? That would mean he's been back there recently.


You are assuming they abandoned the station when Claire escaped. What if they didn't abandon the medical station right away? Maybe they only "fled" when they found out that Claire was on her way back with Kate and Rousseau. Maybe someone on the inside tipped them off? Libby?

Re: the fake baby - there is an interview with Claire on TVGuide.com about all the babies they use to play Aaron. IIRC, you can only use a real baby in TV/Movies for like 5 minutes a day, so they usually use twins, etc. (FYI, there are no spoilers in the interview)


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Tanya said:


> 5. Okay - I am waiting for the shrink to offer some explanation of why these people don't talk to each other about anything. It is driving me nuts.
> 
> 6. Next week looks good. Can't wait to see the response given to what was posted in the spoilerized part.


5. Not sure if you were referring to something specific, but I was thinking that with Rousseau, how she could have just told Claire what happened. But it made sense that she didn't. Claire wouldn't have believed her, and would have doubted her memories later if Rousseau had told her what happened, rather than remembering on her own.

6.


Spoiler



I assume you mean whether or not she's actually pregnant, but I'm pretty curious how they're going to figure it out. It seems like they're lucky to have all the pharmaceuticals that they do have, from the dead passengers and I guess some stuff from the bunker, but I really doubt that many people travel with home pregnancy tests.



By the way, we really don't know that it's next week. They've been saying "coming up" instead of "next" lately. They've misled us before with those.


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## kdonnel (Nov 28, 2000)

From this picture I think it is obvious that the "TiVo" guy is behind it all.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

ScottE22 said:


> I am dubious about them having left back when Claire "escaped." Didn't we _just see_ Mr. Friendly / Zeke in the jungle _with beard_ a few days ago (or maybe a week in "island time")?
> 
> I suppose it's possible that he has more than one, but my thought was that they had really _just_ left.


I was thinking exactly the same thing. The hatch looked like it had been abandoned for quite some time but Jack, Sawyer, Locke and Kate met up with Zeke only several days ago in island time....Curious...


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Chibbie said:


> You are assuming they abandoned the station when Claire escaped. What if they didn't abandon the medical station right away?


I'm actually not assuming anything about _when_ they cleared out their stuff, what I'm wondering is _why_ they only cleared out some of their stuff. Bring the furniture and vaccine, but leave the disguises? It doesn't make sense to me.


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## bigemull (Oct 13, 2005)

Was there more than one disguise?

My first thought was that the locker Kate was looking at was Ethan's and he wasn't available to clean it out.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

DLiquid said:


> I'm actually not assuming anything about _when_ they cleared out their stuff, what I'm wondering is _why_ they only cleared out some of their stuff. Bring the furniture and vaccine, but leave the disguises? It doesn't make sense to me.


It was probably just a simple oversight. Maybe those aren't the only costumes they have and never noticed that they left some behind. The others are not infallible.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

DLiquid said:


> Yeah, I rewound that part and turned it up to listen again. That's the coolest surround effect I've heard on a TV show since I hooked up my 7.1.


That freaked us out. At first I thought it really was someone. After replaying it, my friend turned to me and said, "Let Henry out of the laundry room, Tom."


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> By the way, we really don't know that it's next week. They've been saying "coming up" instead of "next" lately. They've misled us before with those.


I've never thought it was misleading, but I guess I'm always listening for the specific language that either says "Next week on an all new..." or "Coming up on..." That's always a dead giveaway.

But the next new episode is scheduled for March 22.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

bigemull said:


> Was there more than one disguise?
> 
> My first thought was that the locker Kate was looking at was Ethan's and he wasn't available to clean it out.


I thought that was a possibility too. But when we saw the hat...the same hat Zeke was wearing on the boat when they abducted Michael...I knew that couldn't be the case.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> I'm actually not assuming anything about _when_ they cleared out their stuff, what I'm wondering is _why_ they only cleared out some of their stuff. Bring the furniture and vaccine, but leave the disguises? It doesn't make sense to me.


I don't trust Libby at all (big fan of Cynthia though). I think she may have been the tip off as well. She tips off and they get out as much stuff as possible before the "hunting party" arrives. Fridge gets knocked over in the rush. Maybe even a ruse to make it look abandoned. But not enough time to get to the costumes.

That looks more like paint fade than dust on the walls. That _would _ suggest that the room had been used for Alex.

I also find it interesting (hope this is no smeek) that as soon as Jack starts talking about a war against the Others, Sawyer rounds up the guns. (Does anyone remember seeing Sawyer on Flight 815?) Henry shows up to make sure Sawyer did his job. Sawyer may also have tipped off where they were on the raft. But let it be Michael's idea. My only problem with the theory is reconciling the gun play. But he had to make it look good. It just looked a little to good for his own health. But again this is really old business that may have been discussed before. So I will stop and see if this is the case. But this would be an incredible turn of events later on.

kel


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

kdonnel said:


> From this picture I think it is obvious that the "TiVo" guy is behind it all.


Yep. In the HD broadcast you could even see this:


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

hefe said:


> There was. That seemed to be there to prove that the decorations had been there.


Nice that you picked this pic, great butt shot! :up: :up: :up:


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## eMarkM (Apr 28, 2003)

A great episode, we're finally learning a little more about the Others.

On the Others abandoning the "baby bunker". Don't know if this has been mentioned yet. It looks like they recently departed, and in a hurry. Could it be related to the previous episode where the button apparently doesn't get pushed in time? There didn't seem to be any consequences when we see all the strange symbols appear on the timer since then everything seems to go back to the status quo as the timer resets, but maybe that some how caused the panic in the bunker across the island.


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## eMarkM (Apr 28, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Who the heck are Hanso and DeGroot?? I keep seeing people refer to them but have no idea who they are.


There's a website describing the Hanso Foundation, that has been confirmed as linked to the producers of the show. It gives clues what Dharma is and the kind of research they are involved in. For some reason the site is currently down, I keep getting timeouts (Is this link correct?). You can get some more info on Hanso from Wikipedia.


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

I am surprised everyone is concerned about how the bunker appeared. Guys - "The Others" are obviously trying to put on a facade - we just don't know what it is for yet.

Maybe the bunker was purposely staged to look like this. They may not have abandoned it quickly at all, or there was no struggle there. But for their purposes (experiment) they needed to portray a certain image to anyone that came inside the bunker.

Remember, most of what has happened on the island doesn't make sense at the time, but when given more information later you realize what was really going on. Like some of you saying Mr. Friendly's beard looked fake but you couldn't really figure out why it would be like that. Well, now we know it was fake and a part of the "show" they are putting on. If they are going to go through that much trouble when they meet with the 815 survivors, who says they can't stage something in a bunker to make it look like a struggle? If the bunker was pristine when they go there, that wouldn't give the people going in that ominous sense that something bad happened here. Also, maybe they wanted it to look abandoned when in reality it isn't.

To me it looks like there is only one set of Others. They dress how they need to so they can provoke a response for their experiment. We just don't know what that experiment is yet. When I was in college, I was part of psychology studies for for my psychology class. It was funny, because you would go in and they would tell you that they were studying you for one thing, but then after the study, they would actually tell you that they were studying you for something else. They didn't want you to know what they were really studying you for or else it would change the way you act. If they want the Losties to feel fear and anxiety and see how they react, then they need to have all of these different scenarios to provoke that. Hence, the Others dress up for the current "experiment" to get that emotion from the Losties.

And I also agree - I loved last night's episode! I felt they revealed a lot on the island. We know what happened to Claire and how she escaped. We now know for sure that the Others can and will dress up to put on an act. We also know that they have access to a bigger group of people (i.e. all of those doctors in the surgery room) to do whatever it is they are doing here. We also know that Zeke didn't wan't the guns becasue they needed them - they just didn't want the Losties to have them.

Another thing I wanted to mention - my wife said that "Alex" (or who we assume to be her) looked older than 16. Either it wasn't Alex and she is another Red Herring, or this leads credence to the fact that they are doing some Aging type of experiments on the kids. Maybe Walt will show up looking older and they will explain it that way (yes, I know the producers said they would explain Walt's sudden growth spurt on the show. I remember when they said they would explain Hurley's lack of weight loss and they revealed that a few episodes ago.)

Bryan


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Another point against the ransack theory... 

When they first walked into the bunker, I thought I saw Claire brush aside cobwebs. Now, I know that the timelines are all screwy, but that, along with what I thought looked like a lack of upkeep more than ransacking, gave me the abandoned bunker impression. The only wierd thing is the timeline.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Here's what really happened:

Since the others no longer needed the hospital bunker after Claire ran away, they left the bunker slowly and peacefully, taking most of the items with them. 

The next day, when he was out looking for a new pet frog, Hurley found the hatch door and decided to search the bunker for some ranch dressing. Once he found out that the fridge was empty, he kicked it over and decided to trash the place out of rage and disappointment. Simple as that.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

teknikel said:


> I don't trust Libby at all (big fan of Cynthia though). I think she may have been the tip off as well. She tips off and they get out as much stuff as possible before the "hunting party" arrives. Fridge gets knocked over in the rush. Maybe even a ruse to make it look abandoned. But not enough time to get to the costumes.
> 
> That looks more like paint fade than dust on the walls. That _would _ suggest that the room had been used for Alex.
> 
> ...


I don't know that anyone has seen Sawyer actually on the flight, but we've seen lots of indications that he was in Australia at the time of the flight and that he should have been on the flight:
1. Boone crossed paths with Sawyer in the police station when he went to report Shannon's boyfriend and try and get him arrested.
2. It was at the police station that Sawyer was handed a ticket for Flight 815 and instructed to be on the flight and get out of the country, because . . .
3. Sawyer got into a bar fight with Jack's father.
4. Sawyer WANTED to get the heck out of Australia. The cops handed him his getaway from the murder of his former partner in crime by giving him a ticket and telling him to get out of town.
5. Unlike Ethan, Sawyer is one of the first people we encounter at the crash site, and he is immediately involved in the rescue efforts (and pretty banged up himself, IIRC).


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> I think this is the first Lost episode ever with _no flashbacks whatsoever to the "real world", before the crash!_
> 
> All the flashbacks in this show were of Claire's ordeal _on the island_, and were depicting her slowly returning memory of it. (Very cool and effectively done, BTW. :up: )


Indeed, Damon Lindelof actually acknowledges this as a 'first' for the show in the latest podcast.

I know "The Other 48 Days" has been brought up, but that was not a character-centric episode (in the vein of the "Pilot" and "Exodus"), so I don't think Lindelof counts it that way. (It's open to interpretation, of course)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And, of course, "The Other 48 Days" was nothing _but_ flashback, albeit not to the real world...

(By the way, my .sig comes from a comic book Damon Lindelof wrote, _Ultimate Wolverine Vs. Hulk_ #2. And he's not the first Lost producer to do comics--Javier Grillo-Marxuach has a series called _Middleman_, and next month starts writing a new _Super-Skrull_ series for Marvel. And new addition to the writing staff Paul Dini is an old comic book hand.)


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Twin theory?

http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/03/claireandclaireandethan.png


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

thanks for clearing that up. Now how about Libby?


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

7thton said:


> Twin theory?
> 
> http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/03/claireandclaireandethan.png


Claire is looking at her own memory. Production aesthetic.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

bigemull said:


> Was there more than one disguise?
> 
> My first thought was that the locker Kate was looking at was Ethan's and he wasn't available to clean it out.


There were a whole bunch of lockers, all closed.. Kate picked one at random, and they showed us the contents of that one.

By that, I took it as goes-without-saying that the rest of the lockers had similar contents (and that she didn't just completely luck out and pick the only full locker). So I don't even *assume* it's Zeke's beard, for instance.


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## Hpirx (Jan 3, 2004)

When the clean shaven Mr. Friendly appears in the dooorway, I thought it was Locke's kidney stealing father. Am I wrong? But then again Locke would have probably seen through the disguise at their earlier encounter in the jungle.

Still, I found it odd that he allowed Claire to see himself so clearly when he talke to Ethan, given the situation. Unless he wanted  Claire to identify him later on.

The French Lady has creepy eyes.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Hpirx said:


> When the clean shaven Mr. Friendly appears in the dooorway, I thought it was Locke's kidney stealing father. Am I wrong?


Yes.


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was pretty obvious to me after the sinister look he had on his face at the end of the last episode when nobody was watching him...
> 
> Is it me, or has Kate been working out? She seems more buff, especially in the arms and shoulders...


It's just you. She's always been buff. She's a rock climber in real life. Perhaps she's gotten a bit bigger since she has to carry the hobbit on her back now.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Hpirx said:


> Still, I found it odd that he allowed Claire to see himself so clearly when he talke to Ethan, given the situation. Unless he wanted  Claire to identify him later on.
> 
> The French Lady has creepy eyes.


They were going to kill Claire, no?

The French Lady looks like a man close up.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (By the way, my .sig comes from a comic book Damon Lindelof wrote, _Ultimate Wolverine Vs. Hulk_ #2. And he's not the first Lost producer to do comics--Javier Grillo-Marxuach has a series called _Middleman_, and next month starts writing a new _Super-Skrull_ series for Marvel. And new addition to the writing staff Paul Dini is an old comic book hand.)


Very cool. Thanks for the info - I wondered where your sig came from.

Fanboy confession: Paul Dini is actually the reason that Lost was even on my radar when it premiered. (Being a fan of all his animated work,) I caught a blurb somewhere on the internet about him leaving all that behind to go work on some ABC show, starring the dude from Party of Five, about plane crash survivors.

Odd that he doesn't write more for the show though.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Hpirx said:


> Still, I found it odd that he allowed Claire to see himself so clearly when he talke to Ethan, given the situation. Unless he wanted  Claire to identify him later on.
> 
> The French Lady has creepy eyes.


He probably expected her to be dead "later on."

Clearly I'm in the minority, but I'm not alone because I'm agreeing with an earlier poster.: Another possibility of the shape of the bunker that I think is being overlooked is the alarm going off in the previous episode. The bunker makes me think of what would happen during a fire drill if you were given, say, 30 minutes to clear out the contents of room/building/hatch with a certain amount of people. Being that it's a drill, everyone would have a responsibility once this alarm went off. I can't imagine "pick up fake beards in lockers" was high on the priority list.

Overall, I don't think we've been given enough information to draw any sort of clear explanation. I DO think we're close to being able to cross out that they took off just because Claire got away due to the timing of the meeting with Mr. Friendly in "The Hunting Party."

Also, I'm with many others who are somewhat shocked to see a continued annoyance by people that they aren't giving us enough answers. We got SO much information this episode. No, we don't get the last page of the book, but cmon! This episode can be discussed ad nauseum. (And will be.)


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

OK, when Desmond fled the original hatch, did we see him taking all of the vaccine with him? If not, why wouldn't somebody mention to Claire that they had some already?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Well, I think someone's going to wake up in a shower and it's all going to have been a drea......wait! Wrong show!!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Guindalf said:


> Well, I think someone's going to wake up in a shower and it's all going to have been a drea......wait! Wrong show!!


No, it's all in the imagination of Alvor Hanso's autistic son, who has a snow-globe with Hawaii in it (wish you were here).

Greg


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

jradford said:


> I can't imagine "pick up fake beards in lockers" was high on the priority list.


I'd imagine it would be higher than "remove baby decorations from walls."


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

teknikel said:


> I don't trust Libby at all (big fan of Cynthia though).


Right, the way Libby looked at Claire when she said "It depends on what you want to remember" certainly seemed as if it could have had special significance, as if Libby was worried about what Claire might remember.


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## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

bacevedo said:


> Another thing I wanted to mention - my wife said that "Alex" (or who we assume to be her) looked older than 16. Either it wasn't Alex and she is another Red Herring, or this leads credence to the fact that they are doing some Aging type of experiments on the kids.


The actress who plays Alex is 18.


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## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

jlb said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming it is for Sun, the question should be, did she get pregnant with Jin before they got to the Island, did she get pregnant with Jin once on the Island, did she get pregnant by someone else before getting to the Island, did she get pregnant by someone else on the Island, or did the Others inseminate her?


Spoiler re: Sun:


Spoiler



[Yunjin Kim] said she was due in Hawaii immediately after the Globes to shoot her and TV husband Daniel Dae Kim's (Jin) next flashback episode - a romantic love triangle set to air in February.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> Another point against the ransack theory...
> 
> When they first walked into the bunker, I thought I saw Claire brush aside cobwebs. Now, I know that the timelines are all screwy, but that, along with what I thought looked like a lack of upkeep more than ransacking, gave me the abandoned bunker impression. The only wierd thing is the timeline.


Hmmm....

You've inspired a re-watch! 

If she indeed brushed aside a _cobweb_, then that makes Hurley's comment about the music on the short wave radio (Sayid: "It could be coming from anywhere." Hurley: "Or any time. .......... Kidding, dude.") less of a joke!

There'd have to be a time-warp of some kind on the island!

(Which, while it's one of the hokier theories about Lost around, it has been mentioned.)


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Another thing that caught my eye. Twice they showed us a sonogram (correct term?) of Claire's (at the time unborn) baby. Going on the theory that everything is shown for a reason, what's the reason?  Esp since they showed it twice.

Don't have HD . . .


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

I thought it was interesting that the vaccines had the letters "USP" (i.e., United States Pharmacopeia) on them. I understand this to mean the vaccine would thus be a prescription drug and not an experimental Dharma concoction.

If Ethan was telling the truth about there being only a limited amount of the vaccine, it might mean that he and the Others can't leave the island.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

gchance said:


> No, it's all in the imagination of Alvor Hanso's autistic son, who has a snow-globe with Hawaii in it (wish you were here).
> 
> Greg


Damn! I loved 'St Elsewhere'


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Not sure what the significance of a cobweb would be. They can appear overnight. Certainly without problem over a couple weeks.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Is everyone so tired of the all of the numbers theories floating around that when it's revealed what the numbers are, no one notices, well, almost:


Guindalf said:


> ...The "Vaccine" was RX-1 and had _THE _numbers on the bottle...Oh how I love TiVo slomo!


The numbers aren't just "on" the bottle. They *are* the vaccine, it's identification code. Which means the earlier broadcasts of the numbers were requests for more vaccine. Which means the number on the hatch mean that's the vaccine you need to enter safely. Now we only need to know what the disease is it's a vaccination for. 

Rx-1 was also on the theater glue bottle, so I don't know exactly what that is, except maybe a designation from the Dharma group for the island.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

Transcript from episode 1.10 - Raised by Another



> CLAIRE: Do you know Catch a Falling Star? It's a song, like a lullaby.
> 
> EILEEN: Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket.
> 
> ...


Eileen was the one that was supposed to adopt Aron, I believe.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

First off, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje is such an amazing, compelling actor. I would watch him read the phone book.

It wasn't made clear whether Kate is planning to tell Jack or anyone about the disguises and the spirit gum. If she follows the pattern, probably not. At the very least it looks like they have yet another indoor space to get people out of the elements. This one presumably doesn't have an alarm ringing every 108 minutes.

Why did they have to make the pregnant woman Australian. Every time Claire says "my baby" I think of dingos.

This is such an amazing show. Each week it gets better.


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

How many hatches are we familiar with now?

Swan - Lostaways, The Button.

Tower? - Tailies, Abandonded also.

Medical - Revealed in this episode.



Spoiler



Shark - I forget where I read this, but in an upcoming episode Ana Lucia finds the cable that Sayid found on the beach. Instead of following it into the jungle like Sayid did, she follows it into the ocean and finds and underwater hatch.



Do we know what all five Dharma logos are?

These were the same things that were spinning around on the red/black tiles when the counters hit zero right? (One of Them)

Maybe when the counters ran out, two "stations" are randomly selected (spinning around on the timer) - the rightmost (black on red) and something happens at those two stations. (The timer is a five digit display, five stations).

Maybe the inhabitants of those other stations have gotten wise that the Lostaways are in control of the timer now, rather than Desmond. Rather than risk their well being on what happens at Swan station (mainly the timer/button), they've gotten the hell out of there.


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## rickertk (Jan 23, 2002)

Can anybody post what happened in the last 3 minutes or so? We had this set up on 2 Tivos, one of which was clipped due to a conflict, the other one had only a partial recording for reasons unknown to me. 

Keith


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

stevieleej said:


> As for the dirty vs clean bunker, Claire was drugged up and could have imagined it was clean.


That's a good point. I've been considering that possibility too.



stevieleej said:


> On a side note, could someone tell me what 'smeeking' means.


It refers to posting something almost identical to something already posted further up the thread.

It is named, as a little friendly dig, after a prolific and well liked forum member who is sort of famous for doing that.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

pjo1966 said:


> It wasn't made clear whether Kate is planning to tell Jack or anyone about the disguises and the spirit gum.


Kate will probably wait a while because she won't feel like dealing with the fallout because Jack's head tends to explode every time she does something without his permission.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> By that, I took it as goes-without-saying that the rest of the lockers had similar contents (and that she didn't just completely luck out and pick the only full locker). So I don't even *assume* it's Zeke's beard, for instance.


I don't think they would have shown us the clean-shaven Mr. Friendly if they weren't his.










The beard looks a little wimpy, but the hat is dead on.



PJO1966 said:


> It wasn't made clear whether Kate is planning to tell Jack or anyone about the disguises and the spirit gum. If she follows the pattern, probably not. At the very least it looks like they have yet another indoor space to get people out of the elements. This one presumably doesn't have an alarm ringing every 108 minutes.


If she follows the pattern, she probably won't tell them about the hatch either.  
Do the rest of the lostaways even know about the button hatch, or only the designated button pushers?


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## JoeTivo25 (Sep 1, 2004)

Just to make sure I'm up on the flashback connections to Others:

Zeke Friendly was the CIA officer in the last Sied - Iraq flashback, where we learn how he became a torturer.

Desmond ran into Jack when both were running laps in the stadium. (Is Desmond an Other)?

Were there any other "Others" connections revealed yet? Did we see Ethan in any of the flashbacks? What about Goodwin, the Other that infiltrated the Tailies?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

JoeTivo25 said:


> Just to make sure I'm up on the flashback connections to Others:
> 
> Zeke Friendly was the CIA officer in the last Sied - Iraq flashback, where we learn how he became a torturer.


Who said that?

I'm not seeing it. There's a similarity, but I don't think these are the same people.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I really don't want to read 7 pages so if someone could recap and expand on my theories

1. I guess Zeke did know Ethan when mentioned by Jack in the jungle
2. Was Rosseou pregnant when they crashed? Was her baby taken just like Claires was supposed to be?
3. Was Rosseou driven mad and that is why she killed her people? for being infected?
4. Rosseou knows Alex is alive (kind of). This could get good.

My theory on the "groups"

Others - Zeke, Ethan including Desmond but not sure if he knows he is? What happened to the guy Desmond was pushing the button with?

Rossueo and her gang summoned by the others and they get er baby but she kills her people

Lostaways 

And last my theory of the group going through the jungle with the kids. A whole different set of deserted people who were haunted by the others and are taking it upon themselves to keep the children "safe" from the others. Plus they take "good" adults that they can explain the situation to join them? There are a lot of wholes in that but I do think the crazy group could be Rossueos group and her killing them never happened they deserted her because she was going crazy.

Upcoming I would like to see a flashback on Desmond and catch up with him.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

hefe said:


> Who said that?
> 
> I'm not seeing it. There's a similarity, but I don't think these are the same people.


Good call! :up: Joe had me conviced that they were the same guy (from my memory). Shows how your mind can play tricks with you


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

stevieleej said:


> On a side note, could someone tell me what 'smeeking' means.


Wow, you smeeked by asking what smeeking is. It's when you didn't read the entire thread, then posted a question that was already asked & answered earlier in the same thread, or asked & answered in a different thread.



JoeTivo25 said:


> Zeke Friendly was the CIA officer in the last Sied - Iraq flashback, where we learn how he became a torturer.


Nah, Clancy Brown's not that old. Well, that and the fact that he wasn't credited in this episode.

Greg


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> I've never thought it was misleading, but I guess I'm always listening for the specific language that either says "Next week on an all new..." or "Coming up on..." That's always a dead giveaway.
> 
> But the next new episode is scheduled for March 22.


I just meant "next" referring to the next episode, whereas "coming up" could mean in any of the next several episodes, not so much whether it was next week or several weeks away. And true, it's not _misleading_ per se, I just meant that since they have done things with the previews that could be considered misleading (such as Jin speaking English), I wouldn't be surprised at all if, knowing the assumptions most people make about the previews, they showed scenes that weren't all from the next episode, without specifically saying something to that effect.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> A small detail that really bothered me during this episode was when Locke was shown doing the dishes and he appeared to clear half a plate full of food into the garbage. Do these people really have that much food that they can afford to waste some like this? I thought it had already been established that they already burned through all the food that was in the hatch, and since there are over 40 of them on the beach, the gathering of food for that many people would be a monumental task.


Thank you! I thought the exact same thing. And even if what he scraped into the trash was merely fruit rinds, just think of what lengths the contestants on Survivor would go to to get their hands on that!



cwoody222 said:


> Jack off-island


 

*Sun* "OK, let me have a pack of gum, the latest People, a Diet Coke, and...a pregnancy test.
*Sawyer* (into microphone) "Price check on First Response."
*Sun* (blushing) "Do you take AmEx?"
*Sawyer* "This is a cash only line, lady. Will that be all?"


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mwhip said:


> 1. I guess Zeke did know Ethan when mentioned by Jack in the jungle
> 2. Was Rosseou pregnant when they crashed? Was her baby taken just like Claires was supposed to be?
> 3. Was Rosseou driven mad and that is why she killed her people? for being infected?
> 4. Rosseou knows Alex is alive (kind of). This could get good.


1. Evidently so. Not surprising, especially now that we know that he was disguised. Unless of course Ethan was using a fake name with the flight 815 people that the Others didn't know about. I don't recall if Zeke or anyone in the medical bunker called him "Ethan" or not.

2. Interesting possibility.

3. I can't remember exactly what we learned about that last season. I know she said they all got sick and died, but I can't remember if there was any suggestion that she killed them. Her comment to Claire about "knowing what needs to be done" certainly suggests that she did. But, she may not have been crazy, it may have been a perfectly rational decision in the name of self-preservation. Having to face that sort of thing may have led to her going somewhat insane (that and being alone on that island all these years, of course).

4. Yeah.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> 1. Evidently so. Not surprising, especially now that we know that he was disguised. Unless of course Ethan was using a fake name with the flight 815 people that the Others didn't know about. I don't recall if Zeke or anyone in the medical bunker called him "Ethan" or not.
> 
> 2. Interesting possibility.
> 
> ...


Wow, you really haven't been paying attention, have you? Rousseau specifically said she was seven (I think) months pregnant when they crashed. Also, she specifically said that she killed the rest of her team when they got sick. She knows that the Others took her child and she's probably always suspected that Alex was alive, which is why she was trying to steal Aaron so she could use him as bait to find them and hopefully find Alex.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal about the cobwebs. If this hatch is like the others we've seen, there is more than one entrance and exit. Once Claire escaped, they probably covered that entrance up to prevent her from finding her way back and didn't use it any more, making it nearly 6 weeks since it's been used, which is plenty of time for cobwebs to form in that kind of environment.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> I don't recall if Zeke or anyone in the medical bunker called him "Ethan" or not.


I don't recall if any of the people in the lab called him Ethan, but Claire was calling him that all the time. So Zeke shouldn't be dumbfounded when hearing the name.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

So, the items in this Dharma medical lab are all prefixed with "RX-1". Would it stand to reason that there are other Dharma medical facilities on the island? And is the medical stuff even considered to be part of the Dharma stations listed in the orientation film. The medical facilities just might be there of the safety and support of the Dharma personnel. I wonder if we'll find a cafeteria and administrative facilities. Barracks? Health Club?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> I don't recall if any of the people in the lab called him Ethan, but Claire was calling him that all the time. So Zeke shouldn't be dumbfounded when hearing the name.


The guy in the hallway called him Ethan.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

My thoughts on the "ransack".

I think they just pack up and left at a casual pace. I think they still use that bunker as a reserve which is why the costumes are all there. They might have stashes like that all over the island.

As far as the lab's condition goes, I think that maybe Desmond is just wandering around the jungle now and is probably getting "infected". If he did take the vaccine with him when he left, maybe he fell or something and broke his stash. He then stumbled on the hatch with the lab and went in. Finding the lab with the fridge and everything got his hopes up to find more vaccine and when he didn't find it, flipped out and trashed the place. Then, when the others came back for whatever reason, found it like that and decided to cover the entrance so nobody would find it by accident.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> I just meant "next" referring to the next episode, whereas "coming up" could mean in any of the next several episodes, not so much whether it was next week or several weeks away. And true, it's not _misleading_ per se, I just meant that since they have done things with the previews that could be considered misleading (such as Jin speaking English), I wouldn't be surprised at all if, knowing the assumptions most people make about the previews, they showed scenes that weren't all from the next episode, without specifically saying something to that effect.


I see. Yeah, I've seen that also. Usually the narrator's choice of words gives that away, but if you're not paying attention you can assume it's next week's episode. I guess I've conditioned myself to listen for the clues...



> I just meant that since they have done things with the previews that could be considered misleading (such as Jin speaking English),


Not only that, last season, they re-edited dialog in a preview that made it different from what actually happened in the episode.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Wow, you really haven't been paying attention, have you? Rousseau specifically said she was seven (I think) months pregnant when they crashed. Also, she specifically said that she killed the rest of her team when they got sick. She knows that the Others took her child and she's probably always suspected that Alex was alive, which is why she was trying to steal Aaron so she could use him as bait to find them and hopefully find Alex.


Hey, there's a lot to remember here, give me a break, dude.  I'll try to keep up. There's a lot of stuff that goes unsaid explicitly, I just couldn't remember if her killing her teammates was one of them or not.

And I of course remembered that they took Rousseau's baby, but the question was whether they took her "just like Claire's." I interpreted that to mean drugging her, getting her to "consent," etc. So that's what I meant by "interesting possibility."


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> The guy in the hallway called him Ethan.


I obviously have not been paying attention.

In that case, also given the disguises, it really calls into question everything that Zeke said that night in the jungle.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> I see. Yeah, I've seen that also. Usually the narrator's choice of words gives that away, but if you're not paying attention you can assume it's next week's episode. I guess I've conditioned myself to listen for the clues...
> 
> Not only that, last season, they re-edited dialog in a preview that made it different from what actually happened in the episode.


Yeah, that's one thing I have been paying attention to also (despite what others may say). There have been a few shows recently where they've actually said "in the coming _weeks_." Can't recall which one(s) off the top of my head, but it's made me listen for their choice of words.

Personally though, I'd prefer to skip the previews, but my wife likes to watch them, and I'm too lazy to leave the room, not to mention the horrific thought of relinquishing the remote for 30 seconds.


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## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

El Gabito said:


> Zeke made reference to the "list." So it seems apparent that they were prepared for groups of people to arrive, and to develop lists of good/bad people. Then they talked about "him." Who is "him?" Hanso?


I'm have a theory:

I bet they will keep the list in a safe place. And if they have time, they will make a copy of the list. Plus, the Hanso Foundation gets its money from investing in white owned businesses.

And the reason nobody seems to know each others secrets on the island is because they weren't listening. But when they get caught not listening they say, "Sure, I was listening....you were talking about being stranded on this island and stuff". That way, the person thinks they were listening.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

jeff125va said:


> Yeah, that's one thing I have been paying attention to also (despite what others may say). There have been a few shows recently where they've actually said "in the coming _weeks_." Can't recall which one(s) off the top of my head, but it's made me listen for their choice of words.


House, Lost, Desperate Housewives, Monk, Commander in Chief, The OC... just to name a few 

PS They do it on purpose. They want the casual listener to THINK there's a new episode NEXT WEEK when, really, the next new episode(s) are a few weeks ago.

They hooked the viewer and yet, technically, didn't lie.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cwoody222 said:


> House, Lost, Desperate Housewives, Monk, Commander in Chief, The OC... just to name a few
> 
> PS They do it on purpose. They want the casual listener to THINK there's a new episode NEXT WEEK when, really, the next new episode(s) are a few weeks ago.
> 
> They hooked the viewer and yet, technically, didn't lie.


He was talking about the other phenomenon.

24 did it earlier this year when the "coming up" preview showed scenes that were from the next few episodes. There was, in fact, a new episode the next week, but some of the preview scenes were from the episode after that.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Not sure if someone mentioned this already but I know some (including me) were confused about Eko cutting off his beard. A friend of a friend offers this explanation:

"Having your beard cut off was a sign of shame to the ancient Jews. It evolved into if you were ashamed of something you had done you dishonored yourself by cutting off your beard. You could also grow a beard or not shave for a time in rememberance of something you were ashamed of, during grieving periods, or for a matter you were praying about, when the time of prayer,grieving, or contimplation was up you cut your beard (or you could do the same with a lock of hair or pony tail.) Eko had been living with the shame of what he had done, he arranged a makeshift confessional and absolved himself of the shame."

Note: I'm not Jewish myself so I have no idea whether this is true or not.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

mitkraft said:


> I bet they will keep the list in a safe place. And if they have time, they will make a copy of the list. Plus, the Hanso Foundation gets its money from investing in white owned businesses.


 Classic  :up:


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

Hpirx said:


> Still, I found it odd that he allowed Claire to see himself so clearly when he talke to Ethan, given the situation. Unless he wanted  Claire to identify him later on.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## BSUGrad (Jan 11, 2004)

Can someone please recap what happened after Locke went in to talk to Hale? My recording cut off.


----------



## tedster123 (Mar 3, 2006)

This whole theatrical glue etc for the beard etc - does this not remind anyone of the game - The whole thing could be very well planned - are we going to find out at the end that more people are in on it than we think. 
For example capturing this other could that also have been planned, are we going to find russo (sp?) actually is in the whole thing as well, this bit seems a little far fetched even for me though, but watching the game again there were definite similarities in the plot - although based on 1 person rather than a group. 
The fact that the plane crash as we thought a while ago was in no way accidental imply that someone on the plane is possibly involved in the whole thing. 
Another thing I noticed mind you this bit a little obvious probably been mentioned a hundred times but wont stop me - each logo has something different inside swan, arrow, medical logo etc (actual name cant remember you know the one two snakes type thing intertwined) arrow implies armoury etc. 
What is the swan supposed to represent it would seem from my clumsy google searches that the swan represents 1 of 100 things so doesn't really help me much anyone have any idea re this? 
Do we need to look more at things less literally, someone gets captured must be the survivors doing well etc rather than carefully laid out plans. 
I am now trying to look at the whole thing with a pinch of salt, leaving the door open so the girl could hear - showing the girl the operating room with a wide door open, even the girl helping hear - I am trying to see some sort of pattern to the whole thing. Mind you if the game is anything to go by I think I've got a lot of work ahead.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Okay, I'm tired of updating these in separate threads, so I'll just put them here (in spoiler tags, just in case). Both are VERY interesting, and both may be considered spoilers by some people. You decide.

The first part is the latest diary update, which is very confusing. The second part is the latest whisper transcription/decoding. They can be found at the following links:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/diary/103065.html
http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm



Spoiler



SOMETHING MUST BE DONE. i'VE JUST LEARNED THAT MY BROTHER IS BEING HELD IN THE HATCH AS A SUSPECTED "OTHER" AND FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD, HIS TREATMENT HAS BEEN LESS THAN ... HUMANE. WHO DO THESE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE? JUDGE AND JURY? WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT? THIS IS NOT THEIR COURT. THIS IS NOT THEIR ISLAND. SOMETHING MUST BE DONE...





Spoiler



THE COUNTDOWN CLOCK HITS ZERO
From 'One of Them'

Combined Transcripts By 'Penyours' & 'RVTurnage'
Center, Left-Right Combined, Left & Right Audio Tracks

*Center*
Let go of Henry
Can we (just) abort 
I warned him not to do it
Can't do it from the shelter (south) 
Can't move him(?)
Hello
Apparently they have done this before
Time to get another 
I've decided to go with this (I want to see it)
We'll decide
------
*Center Fast*
Stop him
That'll do (I'll go)
I would have saved him but she ran into him 
We need a torturer
(Silence)
Control of his buddy
(Silence)
You've heard them fighting for control?
All over 
------
*Center Super Fast*
What are they going to do to Henry in there?
(Silence)
Plan something...he got busted
It's not over 
(This part was a different speed than the rest)
Obviously he knows something 
Drop the (blast) door 
It's gone wrong 
(In background)
Don't set 'em free
------
*Left & Right Channel*
You tell him what to do 
Is he crawling?
Why don't you tell him who you are?
Thought I could get you to them 
It's not over 
Who called the doctor?
------
*Left & Right Channel Fast*
I don't think he'll be able to con them 
Boy that makes you confident 
Is that computer on? 
How long has it gone for?
(Combined with music)
He's fine 
(Combined with music)
------
*Left Super Fast*
Stand up so they'll call it off 
Who are you caring about? 
He don't work 
We wanted to share it 
------
*Right Super Fast * 
Somehow we will go and reach him
From here it wasn't so great​
Download MP'3

JACK PULLS SAYID OFF HENRY
From 'One of Them'

Combined Transcripts By 'Penyours' & 'RVTurnage'
Center Audio Track

Too close 
(Right after Henry says Ill tell you whatever you want)
Don't talk to them 
(Behind "He's lying)
That guy's stupid 
(Behind "He's lyng")
I'd never let them beat me
I protect my people
What do you want to do? 
(Very faint)
Don't let them break you Henry 
(Very faint)
Who told you they're gone? 
Think carefully now
How are we gonna save Henry? 
You can't save him 
I can hear you 
What have I got to do
Try to save Henry (I can't see you)​


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## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

What exactly is the whisper stuff you linked to?


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## tedster123 (Mar 3, 2006)

The swan is said to represent It symbolizes perfection, beauty, and grace apparently - though the others are probably more intelligent and cunning than we give them credit for and they may play almost with the survivors there may still be an underlying reason for the whole thing - perfection may be what they are after with their drugs etc?


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## tedster123 (Mar 3, 2006)

obviously obssessed with understanding the whole swan thing (so much for a pinch of salt) 
Swan - Grace, balance, innocence, faithfulness, solitude, retreat, poetry, sincerity.


SOLITUDE seems to be apt no?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Scubee said:


> What exactly is the whisper stuff you linked to?


You may have noticed that in some scenes you can hear whispers. Rousseau even mentioned them in a very early episode. Turns out that if you separate the left, center, and right audio signals, then manipulate the audio in other ways (slow it down, reverse, etc.) you can make out voices. They're not very clear, but they're there. The voices have also been found in the polar bear noises and elsewhere.

The original transcriptionists/decoders have a thread here:
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=38199

Edit: The first two posts are all you need to read. The first is a history of the discovery of the whispers, the second is an index to the new transcripts.


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

> 1) When Jack and Locke were talking about long term plans, and Jack asked if he had a better idea, I thought someone had walked into my house and was in my kitchen behind me and my wife.. Very good 5.1 surroundsound placement of Henry Gale's "How about letting me go?" behind us and to the left. Anyone else appreciate it at the time?


I jumped 'cause I though someone was right out side my glass doors.. In fact, my dogs both freaked out, hair standing up and all, and started barking and ran to the door...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Sorry, I feel the need to quickly, quietly vent..

I wish there was a mechanism that could be turned on so that the first time you go to post on a thread under TV Show Talk, you had the rules of the forums thrust in your face, and you had to answer a quiz about them to be able to post for the first time.

It's exhausting seeing people post things from previews (even when I've seen the preview), knowing that other people are specifically trying to avoid it. Then there are 4-5 replies/followups explaining the practice, informing us that it's been spoiler tagged, and apologizing. I'm not talking about any one person in particular - I'm talking about the problem as a whole, as it's very frequent and there's no end in sight.

Then on top of that, it's even more unfortunate that there's no automatic mechanism for striking-out text of old posts or something, and that there wasn't a convention about doing that.. I just read some post (I'm about 2 pages back while typing this) where someone (I won't mention who, I don't know, but I'm not trying to pick on anyone) posted detailed guesses/theories that went on for a while, all based on information that was clearly wrong, false, shown to us on countless previous episodes, etc. Then, of course, others may respond to that, building even more on something that's foundation is wrong. I'm not complaining that the person posting didn't know every detail of the show - that's understandable (even if frustrating for those of us who watch it regularly and remember things).. ..instead, what I'm saying is it'd be nice if that entire elaborate theory had been displayed with strikethrough on the font, or some indication that it had been edited after the fact, to say "oops, sorry, I didn't know that we knew that they were in an airplane when crashing on the island, rather than a cruise liner" or something.. Yes, people can edit posts, but there's no real convention for labeling something wrong, to keep others from running with it..

Sigh. Ok, done with my venting. Back to Lost talk!


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Deep breaths, Jeff.


----------



## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Sorry, I feel the need to quickly, quietly vent..
> 
> I wish there was a mechanism that could be turned on so that the first time you go to post on a thread under TV Show Talk, you had the rules of the forums thrust in your face, and you had to answer a quiz about them to be able to post for the first time.
> 
> ...


The spoiler issue is just a part of life. It won't go away, and most people don't do it to be mean. I don't see any practical way to avoid it.

The second part of your rant is interesting, however, that's the way I feel about some of your posts - no offense intended at all, but how would you like it if I were striking words out in your posts?
I'm guessing you wouldn't be too happy about it, so do what I do, when I see someone spinning off on a tangent I don't think is correct, I skip the rest of the post. Makes these big threads go by a little faster.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Kevdog said:


> OK, when Desmond fled the original hatch, did we see him taking all of the vaccine with him? If not, why wouldn't somebody mention to Claire that they had some already?


He did take lots of vaccine, if not all of it.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

bro1ncos said:


> Transcript from episode 1.10 - *Raised by Another*
> 
> Eileen was the one that was supposed to adopt Aron, I believe.


Can't remember if we noticed this at the time, but now in retrospect, I wonder if the title Raised By Another is more interesting if pronounced Raise By An Other..


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Crrink said:


> The spoiler issue is just a part of life. It won't go away, and most people don't do it to be mean. I don't see any practical way to avoid it.
> 
> The second part of your rant is interesting, however, that's the way I feel about some of your posts - no offense intended at all, but how would you like it if I were striking words out in your posts? I'm guessing you wouldn't be too happy about it, so do what I do, when I see someone spinning off on a tangent I don't think is correct, I skip the rest of the post. Makes these big threads go by a little faster.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I've got a good question. If pressing the button is so important, how can the Others be so sure it'll actually be pushed to leave it in control of people that aren't their allies?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

hefe said:


> Deep breaths, Jeff.


 



Crrink said:


> The spoiler issue is just a part of life. It won't go away, and most people don't do it to be mean. I don't see any practical way to avoid it.
> 
> The second part of your rant is interesting, however, that's the way I feel about some of your posts - no offense intended at all, but how would you like it if I were striking words out in your posts?
> I'm guessing you wouldn't be too happy about it, so do what I do, when I see someone spinning off on a tangent I don't think is correct, I skip the rest of the post. Makes these big threads go by a little faster.


No offense taken at all, in fact I thought about some of my own posts when I was posting that.. I'd start the convention myself (next time one of my theories was based on something I remembered wrong) if I could use the strikethrough font - I don't believe I can with the forum's software..

..and just to be clear:

A) by striking out text I didn't mean to make it unreadable, but merely labeled as "wrong".. I mean the font effect of putting a thin horizontal line through text so it can still be read, as opposed to the government-has-censored-text-by-covering-it-up-with-black-marker effect..

and

B) I never meant that people would strike out _other_ people's text, I meant I wish there was a convention that people would strike out (or label) their _own_ text if they find out later they'd misread something somewhere, just to keep from introducing the now-known-to-be-wrong text to the eyes of everyone else reading the thread after them.

However, now that I think about it, it WOULD be nice if you could spoilerize someone else's text for them, until they get a chance to accept/reject your spoilerization of it (for previews, other stuff, etc).


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> You may have noticed that in some scenes you can hear whispers. Rousseau even mentioned them in a very early episode. Turns out that if you separate the left, center, and right audio signals, then manipulate the audio in other ways (slow it down, reverse, etc.) you can make out voices. They're not very clear, but they're there. The voices have also been found in the polar bear noises and elsewhere.
> 
> The original transcriptionists/decoders have a thread here:
> http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=38199
> ...


Thanks for the info!


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

AJRitz said:


> For God's sake, the guy says his name is Henry Gale.
> 
> Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in the Wizard of Oz. He's full of crap.


Welcome to last week.



DUDE_NJX said:


> Did anybody notice the rubber baby doll that Claire was carrying during the scene when she, the shrink chick and Kate are walking down the beach?


Yes, very obvious.



Fish Man said:


> There is no question, IMHO, that the clean-shaven older man Ethan was seen conferring with is supposed to be the wearer of the fake beard. We've seen that same actor wearing the beard twice now.


Wearer of A fake beard, but not necessarily THE fake bears (and more than one person could have that hat too, although unlikely).



jkeegan said:


> 1) When Jack and Locke were talking about long term plans, and Jack asked if he had a better idea, I thought someone had walked into my house and was in my kitchen behind me and my wife.. Very good 5.1 surroundsound placement of Henry Gale's "How about letting me go?" behind us and to the left. Anyone else appreciate it at the time?


Yes, loved it.



Hpirx said:


> When the clean shaven Mr. Friendly appears in the dooorway, I thought it was Locke's kidney stealing father. Am I wrong?


IIRC, the kidney stealing father was played by Kevin Tighe (from Emergency). Mr. Friendly's not Kevin Tige.

I thought it was a great episode and the show keeps getting better.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

hefe said:


>


LOL, well done, hefe, well done


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> ...snip...
> B) I never meant that people would strike out _other_ people's text, I meant I wish there was a convention that people would strike out (or label) their _own_ text if they find out later they'd misread something somewhere, just to keep from introducing the now-known-to-be-wrong text to the eyes of everyone else reading the thread after them.


DOH! Sorry, I didn't understand that - makes much more sense now, although I don't think too many people would spend the time to go back and correct their posts, and if they did it would probably only help the latecomers in the thread. I can barely keep up with these threads as is, no way I'm going back to see if anybody corrected anything 


> However, now that I think about it, it WOULD be nice if you could spoilerize someone else's text for them, until they get a chance to accept/reject your spoilerization of it (for previews, other stuff, etc).


Yeah, that's not a bad idea, wonder if the forum software could do that?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> DUDE_NJX said:
> 
> 
> > Did anybody notice the rubber baby doll that Claire was carrying during the scene when she, the shrink chick and Kate are walking down the beach?
> ...


Not so obvious to me.  That "rubber" baby is moving it arm by itself. Even has the same red rash on its arm as in the close up the scene before.

Open hand...









Closed hand...









... and I've got too much time on my hands


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

There are several theories on why and when the hatch was abandoned:

1) After Claire escaped?
2) Ransacked by the "other others"?
3) Time Warp?

I'll throw out a fourth: Maybe they abandoned the station after Henry Gale was cuaght. I don't know why, but perhaps that is what triggered it. I still don't know why they would tip the fridge over-- in fact, since they moved other things out, why not take the fridge also?


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> You've inspired a re-watch!
> 
> ...


I guess that might explain why they don't want them crossing the line... time moves differently on that side?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Not so obvious to me.  That "rubber" baby is moving it arm by itself. Even has the same red rash on its arm as in the close up the scene before.
> 
> Open hand...
> 
> ... and I've got too much time on my hands


Tell me you're kidding.  That thing was horribly fake. To the point of distraction. The arm moving...as I remember it, it was the whole arm, not the elbow not the wrist, not the fingers, looked like a cheap puppet. But come on, the way the head was bouncing...


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

hefe said:


> Tell me you're kidding.  That thing was horribly fake. To the point of distraction. The arm moving...as I remember it, it was the whole arm, not the elbow not the wrist, not the fingers, looked like a cheap puppet. But come on, the way the head was bouncing...


I do not know, I wasn't convinced that it was a fake so I had my wife watch it and we both thought that was a real baby (we have a 4 month old, closer to the actual age of baby in that scene). Infants can become very limp when sleeping. And the open/closed hand supports this.

Having said that, I wouldnt let that actress carry my baby around, she is terrible at it .


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

hefe said:


> Tell me you're kidding.  That thing was horribly fake. To the point of distraction. The arm moving...as I remember it, it was the whole arm, not the elbow not the wrist, not the fingers, looked like a cheap puppet. But come on, the way the head was bouncing...


Just watch it back, you'll see... Fist opens and closes... Raises its arm by itself right at the end of the shot... Maybe it was an animatronic puppet.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I loved that we got to see several regulars in this episode, with small parts for several survivors. I think only Jin, Charlie, Ana-Lucia, Sayid, and Michael were not shown. 

The real question is, if Henry Gale's an Other, was he just careless in getting captured by Rousseau, or did he intentionally LET Rousseau capture him? If it's the latter, that's a risky game, as the Others have already interacted with Rousseau in the past (stealing Alex), and Henry would undoubtedly know Rousseau is a little unstable. There would be no guarantee he'd survive if left to her alone... Or is Henry so smart he knew she'd turn him over to the Oceanic survivors? 

I'm throwing this out for comment, because I'm not sure, but how do we know Rousseau is not an "Other", and her "role" is to be a liaison between the Others and the Oceanic survivors? If Rousseau is an "Other" though, it makes it slightly less risky for Henry to be captured by her, as she's part of the plot to get Henry into the "button" hatch.

So far the only ones we know concerned about "infection" are Others. Rousseau claims her entire research team became infected. Henry Gale claims his wife became infected. Ethan kidnaps Claire while pregnant and tries to inoculate her to prevent the baby from becoming infected. Kelvin and Desmond both give themselves inoculations in the hatch to prevent against infection. Aaron is born and Rousseau tries to convince Claire her baby is infected. 

We have taken Rousseau at her word that her research party was infected and her child taken, but we doubt Henry's claim that his was infected. Why should we believe Rousseau? Maybe this is all just a "rouse" and she is manipulating the Oceanic survivors ...


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

pmyers said:


> It still cracks me up seeing people sleep/live on the beach when apperantly there are bunkers and electricity all over the island


And a cave. What ever happened to the cave?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

There are certain problems I see with Rousseau being an Other:

- Not only did she capture Henry Gale, she then shot him with an arrow. While he was running. Yikes. 
- Henry was turned over to Sayid, not Jack. She knew what Sayid could do to him.
- She also warned them that all Henry does is lie.
- She never tried to insert herself into the survivors' lifes. Sayid found her by accident, and stole her maps. In fact she tends to stay way on the outside.
- She only told them about Black Rock after they found the documents, and she led them there for the dynamite used to open the hatch.
- She eventually took Aaron to the site of the black smoke, only to find it was a cruel trick. She wanted to trade to get her girl back.
- She apparently saved Claire and the baby from Ethan and the medical group. _When Claire herself wanted to go back._
- Her torture of Sayid spoke of an uncertain and untrusting mind, not the smoothness of an Other.
- She has a radio message constantly broadcasting her story.

She thinks they are all going to die, so she doesn't want to get too close to them. Her parting words to Claire about "knowing what to do" if the baby was truly infected sounded sincere, albeit a little loopy.

As to the infection, look at it this way: everyone who has been on the island longer than our castaways talks about it, and/or has dealt with it. The only ones who don't care about it are the only ones who apparently haven't had to deal with it yet. Aaron's sickness was foreshadowing, I believe.

On the other hand, this an island that only Machiavelli could love.

On a completely sidetrack subject: does anyone else think it's a little funny that the fight between Ethan and Jack turned out to be between 2 doctors? And Jack got his ass kicked? And now, he's raising an army to fight against ... another medical group. What is this going to be, a football game between the 4077th and the 8063rd?


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> The tattered, barefoot, dirty people with kids dragging teddy bears through the jungle that we've seen glimpses of from time to time definitely look like a different group to me!


If they are different, they both know how to move around the island without making a sound. There has been more than one instance of Others getting very close without anyone knowing until they were right up on them. And Locke, who seems like he should be the best at noticing, ends up being one of the suprised.

Is it just me, or does this character (Locke) seem to run very hot and cold? There are times when he is full of wisdom and knowledge, then others, he's liked a scared little boy who is very indecisive.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> There are certain problems I see with Rousseau being an Other:
> 
> - Not only did she capture Henry Gale, she then shot him with an arrow. While he was running. Yikes.
> - Henry was turned over to Sayid, not Jack. She knew what Sayid could do to him.
> ...


A lot of what you say makes sense, but I'm still on the fence about Rousseau. We know now that the scruffy Others who took Walt were just playing the part, with theatrical props such as beards, tattered clothes, etc.

Talk me out of this, because I really like Rousseau (especially since she was my favorite Minbari!), but what if Rousseau is part of a more elaborate plot, and her goal is to become a trusted outsider by the Oceanic survivors? Wouldn't taking the group to Black Rock, stopping Claire from returning to the medical hatch, and turning over a captured Other to Sayid be several ways of proving herself?

Clarie may not even have started looking for the medical hatch without Rousseau showing up and "prodding" Claire, in a roundabout way, to look for the medicine.

As to why Rouseeau didn't embed herself with the new arrivals, it gives her a cover story to be away from the beach camp whenever she wants. If she's an Other, her "role" is the "crazy loner", so she can come and go as she pleases, and report to the Others about what's happening at the beach.

I really am trying to figure this out, but we still don't even know why the Others feel the need to portray themselves as scruffy/unkempt/backwards. Rousseau could just be part of a bigger more elaborate plan by the Others and the purpose is also unknown....


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Charon2 said:


> And a cave. What ever happened to the cave?


From a production standpoint, I've heard people say that the soundstage that formerly held the cave now hosts the Swan station.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Talk me out of this, because I really like Rousseau (especially since she was my favorite Minbari!), but what if Rousseau is part of a more elaborate plot, and her goal is to become a trusted outsider by the Oceanic survivors? Wouldn't taking the group to Black Rock, stopping Claire from returning to the medical hatch, and turning over a captured Other to Sayid be several ways of proving herself?


Except, she stole Claire's baby and let Charlie keep believing that she was planning on giving it to the others in exchange for her kid. That doesn't build much trust, and it's very risky when trying to do so. Hope that accomplished your wish of talking you out of that.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

> On a completely sidetrack subject: does anyone else think it's a little funny that the fight between Ethan and Jack turned out to be between 2 doctors? And Jack got his ass kicked?


During the first fight... The second time around, Jack won the fight (just before Ethan was shot). I thought it was almost like the writers had to show Jack winning that fistfight, even though, Jack had plenty of back-up around.

As for Ethan being a doctor, are you sure that he wasn't just playing one for Claire's benefit?


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

My (*&^$^%# cable company decided that a 2 minute period during the last scenes of Lost was a perfect time to do their fr'n required test. I missed most of the scene with Mr. Ecko and Henry Gale. Anyone out there have a transcript of their talk? It went out when Ecko was asking if he was treated well and came back on right when Ecko drew the knife. I've read through these pages and get the gist of it, but would love to know exactly what was said. Thanks!!


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

There are 12 others and they have a plan.....


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Except, she stole Claire's baby and let Charlie keep believing that she was planning on giving it to the others in exchange for her kid. That doesn't build much trust, and it's very risky when trying to do so. Hope that accomplished your wish of talking you out of that.


Remind me why she took the baby then....just to have it?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

7thton said:


> Remind me why she took the baby then....just to have it?


She was hoping to either trade it for the return of her daughter, or to use it as bait so she could re-capture her daughter.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Except, she stole Claire's baby and let Charlie keep believing that she was planning on giving it to the others in exchange for her kid. That doesn't build much trust, and it's very risky when trying to do so. Hope that accomplished your wish of talking you out of that.


It did, thanks. I just needed it banged into my head. Stealing the baby was definitely several steps backwards in the trust-building department. I think if that event never took place, everything else Rousseau has done could have just been a rouse, but this event does trump all else....


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## Hemi (Jan 9, 2002)

Actually, it all makes (more) sense now. After Claire escapes with the help of Alex (and ironically, Rousseau), the Others then need to regroup so they send Ethan back to the beach but he gets killed (shot by Charlie)  this is why they have to abandon the hospital bunker in a hurry  Ethans death puts all of them in jeopardy. This is also why they ambush Jack, Locke and Sawyer (with Kate) in the woods  to get the guns (as many as they could) away from the group, to protect themselves and the entire Dharma Initiative. 

I also suspect that there is in fact no illness  just like the button, the vaccine (a placebo) is another experiment run by the home office (off island) on the members of the study themselves, the ones we know as the Others.

Dan


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## jk5598224 (Jan 29, 2003)

Please let Kate be next to get killed or otherwise of the isle. She has become a bore and a whimp...


----------



## ced6 (Jul 30, 2003)

Just a quick clarification needed on something I think I missed:

A. Ethan takes Claire out of the bunker and acts like he's all buddy-buddy and it seems like he's going to let her go. 

B. But then it appears that she somehow ends up back inside and then Alex helps her to escape. 

Did they explain what happened to get from point A to point B? Thanks!!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ced6 said:


> Just a quick clarification needed on something I think I missed:
> 
> A. Ethan takes Claire out of the bunker and acts like he's all buddy-buddy and it seems like he's going to let her go.
> 
> ...


He was drugging her. That's why when he gave her a drink from the canteen, she commented that it was sour and then you notice he didn't drink from it. He was simply being nice to her during her lucid moments, but never had any intention of letting her go.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Is it just me, but I just sit there watching this show, and imagining the show writers sitting there coming up with a whole bunch of unplanned, implausible events. I think they go week by week just throwing stuff on a whiteboard seeing what sticks. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but sometimes I just get the feeling that they really are not sure where this is going to go...


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Is it just me, but I just sit there watching this show, and imagining the show writers sitting there coming up with a whole bunch of unplanned, implausible events. I think they go week by week just throwing stuff on a whiteboard seeing what sticks. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but sometimes I just get the feeling that they really are not sure where this is going to go...


I agree to a point. I think they have the broad storyline (Dharma, numbers, etc) written down. But the individual characters and their storylines probably get written as the go to fit into the story. Like killing off people. They probably have to alter who goes depending on contractual issues and whatnot.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

drew2k said:


> So far the only ones we know concerned about "infection" are Others. Rousseau claims her entire research team became infected. Henry Gale claims his wife became infected. Ethan kidnaps Claire while pregnant and tries to inoculate her to prevent the baby from becoming infected. Kelvin and Desmond both give themselves inoculations in the hatch to prevent against infection. Aaron is born and Rousseau tries to convince Claire her baby is infected.


I like the way you are thinking. And, despite all this discussion of "infection", we don't have a single description of a symptom of the infection.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

thenightfly42 said:


> I like the way you are thinking. And, despite all this discussion of "infection", we don't have a single description of a symptom of the infection.


..except maybe one.. When Rousseau sees Aaron (two a's?), and sees that he's crying and sick, she thinks that he might be infected. So at least it's got some traditional "sickness" associated with it (at some stage), rather than having people be infected with some parasite that takes over their thoughts or something..


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

thenightfly42 said:


> I like the way you are thinking. And, despite all this discussion of "infection", we don't have a single description of a symptom of the infection.


Although his veracity is yet to be determined, and we don't conclusively know that it was The Sickness, per se, we do have Henry Gale's description of his wife's demise. As I recall, he mentioned a high fever, then delirium, then death.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Hmmm.... Could be... 

[Click to enlarge.]
[Not sure who to give credit to for the pic. It's an email forward.]


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Wow, that's quite a stretch. I don't see how anyone could make anything out of that grainy blown up image with the glasses and the face mask. Maybe if we had some of that cool CSI-type software that can make out the numbers on a watch from a surveillance camera.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

It's not much of a stretch. There's already reason to believe that Henry is an Other. The writers and directors have a history of hiding things in the background, so it's only natural to look for connections. I don't think the picture is offered as conclusive evidence. Only speculation.


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## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

tivotvaddict said:


> My (*&^$^%# cable company decided that a 2 minute period during the last scenes of Lost was a perfect time to do their fr'n required test. I missed most of the scene with Mr. Ecko and Henry Gale. Anyone out there have a transcript of their talk? It went out when Ecko was asking if he was treated well and came back on right when Ecko drew the knife. I've read through these pages and get the gist of it, but would love to know exactly what was said. Thanks!!


"Treated me well? I'm a prisoner and I don't know why or why they (Ecko interupts) "because they are being careful, they are being careful because they believe you are lying" (Gale) "Why, why would I lie, they think I'm one of these others, other what"? (Ecko) "Please stop talking Henry, The first night I spent on this island I was dragged off into the jungle by two men, they never spoke a word to me nor I to them, I killed these men, smashed them into the head with a stone, felt their blood on my arms, I need you to know how sorry I am for this, I need you to know that I am back on the rightgous path now and that I regret my actions, I ask you for your forgiveness" (Gale) "Why are you telling me this"? (Ecko) "Because I needed to tell someone"
Just watched that scene. Those are the exact words.
Eugene


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Wow, thanks Eugene!! I'm a few episodes behind on this myself, so this helps bring me current. Thanks!


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## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

tivotvaddict said:


> Wow, thanks Eugene!! I'm a few episodes behind on this myself, so this helps bring me current. Thanks!


No problem! I missed all of last season and bought the dvd set to find out that the program was pretty darn good. 
Eugene


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