# Breaking Bad 08/25/13 "Confessions"



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Pretty cagey. I didn't expect Walt to full on implicate Hank. It's a stop-gap measure for sure, but still.

Another great episode. The train keeps rollin' full steam.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Marie was wearing black, lots of other people were wearing purple.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Aaron Paul killed it in this episode. I've been waiting for Jesse to turn on Walt for like three seasons now. I hope he follows through with torching the house.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Yeah!


Walt's "confession" was awesome. Pin it on Hank!! Yeah, that's the ticket. he took the money for his medical bills. And Marie knew about it. DOH! 



I don't quite get why Jesse all of the sudden realized the ricin cigarette. Did they lift it JUST NOW, right before he was about to go away? We've seen him check to make sure it's there before and freak out when he doesn't find the pack of cigs right away.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Zevida said:


> Aaron Paul killed it in this episode. I've been waiting for Jesse to turn on Walt for like three seasons now. I hope he follows through with torching the house.


We have seen the house in the future. It's not torched.


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## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

What's the deal with the Ricin cigarette? Didn't that end up in Walters wall outlet a while back? Did jesse have it on him?


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't quite get why Jesse all of the sudden realized the ricin cigarette. Did they lift it JUST NOW, right before he was about to go away? We've seen him check to make sure it's there before and freak out when he doesn't find the pack of cigs right away.


Jesse had dope in his pocket. Then it was missing. He realized Huell lifted his dope. Jesse then looked at his cigarettes, remembered the last time something from his pocket went missing and remembered that Huell had patted him down. He put two and two together and realized Huell had lifted the ricin cigarette back at the end of season 4. And the only way Huell would know to do that is if Walt told him to.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Was the scene where Hank, Marie, Walt, and Skylar were sitting at the restaurant similar to one earlier in the series? (The location, I mean, not the substance of their discussion). I had major déjà vu watching it.

Great episode. Edge-of-seat stuff, for me. 

I love seeing the characters piece things together: Hank and the insurance money. Jesse and the ricin cigarette.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Zevida said:


> Jesse had dope in his pocket. Then it was missing. He realized Yule lifted his dope. Jesse then looked at his cigarettes, remembered the last time something from his pocket went missing and remembered that Yule had patted him down. He put two and two together and realized Yule had lifted the ricin cigarette back at the end of season 4. And the only way Yule would know to do that is if Walt told him to.


I thought they put it back. or at least, a dummy/decoy.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I thought they put it back. or at least, a dummy/decoy.


Here's the history of the ricin cigarette, from the Breaking Bad Wikia (which will likely be updated again momentarily to reflect what happened tonight).



> The second time Walt created ricin it was intended to kill Gustavo Fring. He created a small vial of it in Gus's own superlab, supposedly out of sight, and secretly passed it to Jesse, who concealed it in one of his cigarettes. At the time, however, Jesse was distancing himself from Walt and growing closer to Gus, and thus he never administered it even when he had the opportunity.
> 
> Later, Andrea Cantillo's son Brock Cantillo fell severely ill from some unknown cause and Jesse found that his ricin-vial cigarette was missing. He told Andrea to warn Brock's doctors about the possible poisoning. Because only he and Walt knew about the ricin, Jesse suspected that Walt poisoned Brock; however, Walt convinces him that it was Gus who poisoned Brock. ("End Times") Although initially in danger of dying, doctors say that he would survive, and tests showed that it was not ricin; instead, he ingested the berries of a local poisonous plant called the "Lily of the Valley". At the very end of the episode, the camera zooms in on a Lily of the Valley in Walt's back yard, beside his pool. ("Face Off")
> 
> ...


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Was the waiter, the same one from Office Space?


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I thought they put it back. or at least, a dummy/decoy.


No, Walt "found" it in the roomba after Jesse "lost" it.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I came here looking for a refresher on the ricin. Thanks, danterner!


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

Can someone explain the diner scene to me. Did the blond kid/cook blame the killing of the desert boy on someone else? Did those two guys look like under cover cops or what?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Solid episode. I miss the free wheelin Jessie of old though and only Sol for light relief Badger etc. MIA.

There was some pretty blatant and unsubtle foreshadowing in that opening scene. Not completely sure what the point of that was outside of directly coming back later.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

billboard_NE said:


> Can someone explain the diner scene to me. Did the blond kid/cook blame the killing of the desert boy on someone else? Did those two guys look like under cover cops or what?


They were part of his gang, they just came from killing everyone last week, hence the blood on the shoes.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

JohnB1000 said:


> They were part of his gang, they just came from killing everyone last week, hence the blood on the shoes.


So the killing of the cooks at the buried bus last week was the small change in management. What did they say about the dirt bike kid at the train heist? I still feel like I am missing something.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Tracy said:


> I came here looking for a refresher on the ricin. Thanks, danterner!


I'm still a little confused



> Season 5
> 
> Saul Goodman returned the ricin cigarette to Walt, stating his wonder that Huell didn't break it when he lifted it from Jesse. ("Live Free or Die") Walt hid the ricin capsule behind an electrical outlet in his bedroom and made a false capsule with salt. He hid the fake capsule in a cigarette and planted it in Jesse's Roomba to put Jesse's mind at ease. ("Madrigal") Walt later took the ricin to a meeting with Lydia Rodarte-Quayle with intentions to kill her, though didn't because she proved to be useful, by offering expansion of Walt's empire into the Czech Republic. ("Gliding Over All")


Jesse got what he thought was the original ricin cig out of the roomba. Didn't he put it back in the pack? There is mention of other ricin, but there was more ricin than the single cigarette.

So, did jesse never really ever put the Roomba one back in the pack? Did he put it back in the pack, but then figure it all out just now, shortly before getting picked up, even with the cigarette in the pack? They never showed the cigarette tonight. To me, that suggests it was NOT in the pack. Am I really wrong in thinking it made it back into the back after he got it out of the Roomba? I know the summary above doesn't say he put it back, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Maybe the summary jsut didn't include that detail.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

billboard_NE said:


> So the killing of the cooks at the buried bus last week was the small change in management. What did they say about the dirt bike kid at the train heist? I still feel like I am missing something.


I don't think Todd ("Landry") mentioned the kid on the dirt bike at all. I was WAITING for him to say something, but unless I seriously am brainfarting here, I don't think he ever did.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

After they found the (fake) Ricin (Walt planted) in the roomba, they flushed it. 

Jesse has not had a ricin cigarette or had the ricin since he lost it/it was stolen on season 4.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Zevida said:


> After they found the (fake) Ricin (Walt planted) in the roomba, they flushed it.
> 
> Jesse has not had a ricin cigarette or had the ricin since he lost it/it was stolen on season 4.


ohh.. OK

Thanks..

Dunno why I thought he kept it on him after [what he thought was] getting it back.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't think Todd ("Landry") mentioned the kid on the dirt bike at all. I was WAITING for him to say something, but unless I seriously am brainfarting here, I don't think he ever did.


I will have to re-watch, but I thought one of his gang members mentioned something about kicking a kid killer was a pleasure.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

billboard_NE said:


> I will have to re-watch, but I thought one of his gang members mentioned something about kicking a kid killer was a pleasure.


Well, Todd was the kid killer. When did he get kicked by these guys? And if he told them, I don't think we, the audience, saw that.

or did we?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Speaking of Todd and the gang and the new management...


Was anyone surprised that they were coming back into New Mexico from some place else?? (Arizona???) Am I right to assume that the cooking moved out of state under Declan? They wanted us to see the Welcome to New Mexico sign for a reason.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't think Todd ("Landry") mentioned the kid on the dirt bike at all. I was WAITING for him to say something, but unless I seriously am brainfarting here, I don't think he ever did.


He didn't. I was thinking he would mention the kid and then the server offered coffee and the conversation ended.

I loved the 'confession'. What a great way to play it. I was waiting for Hank to take the remote and throw it thru the TV. Or a chair. Or get his gun and shoot it.

Marie wearing black and Hank in a sort of blueish purple top. Interesting.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> Well, Todd was the kid killer. When did he get kicked by these guys? And if he told them, I don't think we, the audience, saw that.
> 
> or did we?


This may be all in my head, but I figured Todd told the thugs that someone else was the kid killer, I doubt he would tell the truth on that part of the story.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

billboard_NE said:


> This may be all in my head, but I figured Todd told the thugs that someone else was the kid killer, I doubt he would tell the truth on that part of the story.


Why not? I mean, it's his uncle. The one that set up all the kills in the jails. I was figuring it may be a right of passage thing. Or heck, Todd did it so calm and cool like - maybe it wasn't his first kill.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

billboard_NE said:


> This may be all in my head, but I figured Todd told the thugs that someone else was the kid killer, I doubt he would tell the truth on that part of the story.


That sounds most plausible.

but again, during the diner scene that aired in this specific episode, did we see Todd tell these guys about the kid getting shot? Mention the kid at all?

AmI just losing my mind here?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> That sounds most plausible.
> 
> but again, during the diner scene that aired in this specific episode, did we see Todd tell these guys about the kid getting shot? Mention the kid at all?
> 
> AmI just losing my mind here?


No the kid and the killing was not mentioned.


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## Frash (Jan 15, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> Speaking of Todd and the gang and the new management...
> 
> Was anyone surprised that they were coming back into New Mexico from some place else?? (Arizona???) Am I right to assume that the cooking moved out of state under Declan? They wanted us to see the Welcome to New Mexico sign for a reason.


I think Declan's operation was in Arizona, so I assume he was cooking there as well.

I took that scene to show that the meth 'empire' is coming back to Albuquerque, and with that, close to Walt.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

billboard_NE said:


> I will have to re-watch, but I thought one of his gang members mentioned something about kicking a kid killer was a pleasure.


Bicycle boy was never mentioned, but when the two men were in the bathroom they talked about how America has gone to crap and, as an example, one mentioned how kids these days wear helmets when they ride bikes.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

wasn't the kid that saw the heist on a dirt bike? (i.e. motorcycle?)


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

Just re-watched, no mention of dirt bike kid.

what confused me was the scene in the bathroom at the diner "I see a kid with a bicycle helmet on I want to smack the Sh** out of him."

my mistake


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> Was the waiter, the same one from Office Space?


No, but you can be sure they were copying him.
I saw the similarities, too.

That guy would be 15 years older now.

I was expecting Walt or Hank to tell the waiter to get lost in real severe terms.

I hope they left a tip.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

billboard_NE said:


> Just re-watched, no mention of dirt bike kid.
> 
> what confused me was the scene in the bathroom at the diner "I see a kid with a bicycle helmet on I want to smack the Sh** out of him."
> 
> my mistake


That was just Mr. Nazi b*ing about the p*fictation of America.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

billboard_NE said:


> Just re-watched, no mention of dirt bike kid.
> 
> what confused me was the scene in the bathroom at the diner "I see a kid with a bicycle helmet on I want to smack the Sh** out of him."
> 
> my mistake


he did say that

but that was just a general rant that started out when the other guy mentioned the "plugs" in old airplane seats where the ashtray used to be. Lamenting that you can no longer smoke on airplanes. The nanny state. The bike helmet thing fits the theme. I don't think it was intended to be a link to the kid that Todd shot.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

It's not too hard to figure out Vince Gilligan's tease on "Talking Bad."



Spoiler



Jesse set fire to the White's house B*ches! They have to go to a Motel to live.

What is strange is that the house looked vandalized, but didn't look burned out when Walt goes back to retrieve the ricin.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> he did say that
> 
> but that was just a general rant that started out when the other guy mentioned the "plugs" in old airplane seats where the ashtray used to be. Lamenting that you can no longer smoke on airplanes. The nanny state. The bike helmet thing fits the theme. I don't think it was intended to be a link to the kid that Todd shot.


Yes, I was just half watching (shame) and in my head I thought he was talking about the dirt bike kid. completely my fault.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I did not see that "confession" coming. I was really set up.

Like they say, now you can see how some seeming throw away details come into play for the accusation.

Well done, Vince.

I say that Hank still can just lay it all out, and even show the confession ahead of time NOW.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Zevida said:


> Aaron Paul killed it in this episode. I've been waiting for Jesse to turn on Walt for like three seasons now. I hope he follows through with torching the house.


I hope so too. I was on the edge of my seat with Jesse in the desert. I wanted to kill WW myself if he had hurt Jesse. I so want to put Jesse in my purse and keep him safe.

That taped confession, though clever, pi$$ed me off. Just so wrong. WW is the devil and can die any time now.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> We have seen the house in the future. It's not torched.


And I wonder if that was why Walt was going for the ricin. Perhaps it wasn't for killing anyone, but rather to plant it somewhere to finally complete a lie he had told Jesse months earlier about what "might have happened" to it.



danterner said:


> Was the scene where Hank, Marie, Walt, and Skylar were sitting at the restaurant similar to one earlier in the series? (The location, I mean, not the substance of their discussion). I had major déjà vu watching it.


If you watched Talking Bad last week, that was the preview scene they showed.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I really think Hank not telling anyone about his knowledge about who Heisenberg is is gonna be a big problem for him.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

BitbyBlit said:


> If you watched Talking Bad last week, that was the preview scene they showed.


Ha! I did, and that must be why it looked familiar to me. Thanks!

Unrelated: I really thought that Saul might be taking a trip to Belize there, for a moment.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> And I wonder if that was why Walt was going for the ricin. Perhaps it wasn't for killing anyone, but rather to plant it somewhere to finally complete a lie he had told Jesse months earlier about what "might have happened" to it..


In last season, Walt definitely told Jesse he flushed it right there so there's no story to complete. So if it shows up again Jesse will just know Walt lied to him again.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Another awesome episode.



jsmeeker said:


> Yeah!
> 
> Walt's "confession" was awesome. Pin it on Hank!! Yeah, that's the ticket. he took the money for his medical bills. And Marie knew about it. DOH!


So good! I didn't see it coming at all.. Totally figured he was making a legit confession (which felt surprising but I bought it), and at the end of the dinner discussion I thought that was Walt almost giving up by handing over the disc. Holy sh*t. That was awesome.



jsmeeker said:


> Speaking of Todd and the gang and the new management...
> 
> Was anyone surprised that they were coming back into New Mexico from some place else?? (Arizona???) Am I right to assume that the cooking moved out of state under Declan? They wanted us to see the Welcome to New Mexico sign for a reason.


Well at the beginning of the season when Walt gives money to the guy in the bathroom for the gun, the guy asks for Walt's word that the gun won't leave state lines, and Walt assures him that no it won't even leave the town. What feels like the next chronological scene to us is Walt at his house getting the Ricin, so presumably THAT is the town. If the operation is coming closer, that makes them a potential target for that big gun.



Frash said:


> I think Declan's operation was in Arizona, so I assume he was cooking there as well.
> 
> I took that scene to show that the meth 'empire' is coming back to Albuquerque, and with that, close to Walt.


Yep.

Ok enough with the quote-replies, here are a few thoughts I jotted down while reading the thread:

1) GREEN JACKET! Did anyone else notice that Todd was wearing a green military jacket? Remember when danterner posted this two weeks ago:



danterner said:


> 3D said:
> 
> 
> > Under one of the more en vogue theories out there (linked to a couple of times above), Walt's behavior at the car wash is explained by its similarities to how Gus acted at his chicken restaurants. Essentially, the theory is that Walt has a habit of taking on characteristics of his victims.
> ...


?? As soon as I saw Todd wearing the jacket, I was filled with hope!

2) Wow does Todd look like Matt Damon

3) As I agreed above, the video was pure awesome. Veeeeery convincing. Tread lightly indeed. Hank didn't even know who he was talking to.

4) I love that Marie keeps almost making things worse for her and Hank and he almost looks embarrassed by her for doing it (luring Walt Jr to the house in this case, trying to steal the baby in the other).

5) As soon as Jessie got to Walt's house with the gasoline, I immediately said out loud "OH ****, IT'S **JESSIE** THAT WRITES HEISENBERG ON THE WALLS!!!"

6) Hadn't remembered that Hank didn't know about the money for his advanced treatment.. (totally remembered that Walt paid, and that Hank benefited from that, just forgot that Hank never knew that)

7) As soon as I saw Jessie checking his pockets I immediately knew he'd figure out that they had stolen the ricin from him forever ago (they just stole the dope back from him now, so they could clearly have done it before, and he happens to look at his cigarettes). I then also thought that if Walt GOT the ricin back he could prove to Jessie that he hadn't used it on the kid - he'd just used lilies of the valley. (but that's still a betrayal because he tricked him into thinking Gus had to die)

8) I absolutely needed that hug in the desert. What I've wanted to hear Walt say to Jessie for a long time (but he hasn't that I recall) is that Jessie is FAMILY. Man I felt for Jessie in the desert. And my heart almost broke when he said Alaska, as he started to have a bit of hope.

Unlike Hank rushing things with the tape recorder, Walt tells Saul to "take a walk" at the suggestion that they get mad at Jessie for throwing the cash and getting in the police spotlight again.

9) So - that whole "new identity" service. With the way the episode ended, this next point is a bit moot, but even since seasons ago when Walt was considering it, it occurred to me that it would be extremely difficult to trust such a service. If someone is really going to make someone disappear such that NO ONE can find them, then how is that distinguishable from taking them out to the desert and shooting them in the head? Unless they leave a pretty big hole and let Saul contact the person in their new life, Saul has no idea if they ACTUALLY gave them a new identity, or just shot and buried them somewhere. When Jessie said Alaska I almost had tears in my eyes at the thought that he might get in the car, and get killed instead of going away.

So when Walt suggested it in the desert, I immediately started saying things to my wife like "well at LEAST we know that WALT believes the service is real, because HE was going to use it..".. and Saul seemed to think it was real too.

For that reason I'm glad the story doesn't have Jessie getting in that car. But I'm sad that he can't start over in Alaska.  (at least it doesn't seem that way)

10) I thought there was a slight chance that Saul might actually die in this episode

11) I thought the zooming-in on Uncle Jack's swastika was a way to remind us "hey, even though this guy helped Walt stay safe with the whole 10-person prison murders, we don't want you to like these guys..."

12) Seeing that spider approaching Jessie's feet in the desert, I was like "oh man he's thinking about the kid on the bike.. he's gonna lose it"

13) Walt is getting so good that I can't even see what he's doing now. Here I'm thinking that Walt is telling Walt Jr about his cancer in case Marie or Hank mentions it to him so that Walt Jr doesn't find out that Walt is hiding something from him, and then Walt Jr says "of course I'm not leaving - I'm staying right here". I was floored. Didn't even see that outcome coming.

That's all I've got tonight. Didn't do a rewatch yet. Such a good episode.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

The confession and the reaction scene with Hank and Marie were 15 minutes of epic television. Great stuff.

So many great shows burn out and go off the rails - but this one just keeps getting better and better


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

netringer said:


> I did not see that "confession" coming. I was really set up.
> 
> Like they say, now you can see how some seeming throw away details come into play for the accusation.
> 
> ...


The money is checkmate. He's screwed without corroboration from either Jesse, Skyler, or Saul.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

When did Hank then into Michael Chiklis?


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Beryl said:


> That taped confession, though clever, pi$$ed me off. Just so wrong. WW is the devil and can die any time now.


Most people had already jumped into the "rooting against Walt" side, but that taped confession is what finally pushed me fully into that category. Other activities Walt has been involved in often included other forces at work. And even with all the things he's done against Jesse, he's also sacrificed a lot for him. But this was blatantly hurting two people whose only crime was finding out the truth about him. And Skylar's willingness to go along with it makes me root against her as well.

But I'm not necessarily ready for Walt to die. Personally, I think the worst punishment would be for him to live. The whole reason he started this business was to leave money for his family when he died. I think the ideal ending would be for him to be sitting in a room filled with all his cash, having lost his entire family (via death, Witness Protection, or some other means). He then gets a phone call. "Mr. Lambert, the test results are back. All signs of the cancer are gone. Congratulations!" Fade to black.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

danielhart said:


> The money is checkmate. He's screwed without corroboration from either Jesse, Skyler, or Saul.


:up:

If Walt or Skyler ever release the video, there probably isn't even much suspicion that Walt had lots of money hidden somewhere out in the desert - that suspicion all goes towards Hank. And Walt came out first with his version (at least according to the video), mentioning Hank inviting him to come see a meth raid (which he invited him to in front of lots of people!).

Plus, Walt still gets street cred for being the cook! THAT PRODUCT IS MINE!!!

But as Hank said, it's just a threat. (And a damned good one at that!)

EVERYONE knows about Hank's recovery. A simple check will show that insurance didn't pay for it. Hank's implicated - not just naive to Walt being Heisenberg, but IMPLICATED (albeit unknowlingly, but)..

But once again they change it all up. That's not the important issue anymore. Jessie is pouring gasoline.

Think Walt gets there before he lights a match? Who thinks we're gonna see that mirror get smashed?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> Most people had already jumped into the "rooting against Walt" side, but that taped confession is what finally pushed me fully into that category.


Not me.

There have been moments where I was angry (usually relating to Jessie), but Walt is designed to be the character you identify with (EVEN as he goes deeper and deeper into darkness). I find it almost entertaining watching people root against him. I think one of the challenges was seeing how far they could get the audience to go on rooting for Walt. There's a majority of me that right now IS rooting for him (and if he meant that hug, he still has me on his side).

And before you go judging me - it's fiction.  So I'm allowed to enjoy a consequence-free story.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

(And remember - Walt didn't publish that video.. he gave a copy to Hank. Big difference.. It's a threat to ensure that Hank doesn't destroy the family. So Walt still hasn't done anything (recently) to hurt Hank or Marie directly)

(unless, of course, someone finds that video by accident)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh yeah here was another thought I had during the episode..

After the hug scene, we saw some other scene (don't remember what). I said to Laurie "Can you imagine if that was the last time we ever see Jessie, and they just left it up in the air forever what happened to him???!?"

I was glad to see him in Saul's office a few scenes later.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Hank said:


> In last season, Walt definitely told Jesse he flushed it right there so there's no story to complete. So if it shows up again Jesse will just know Walt lied to him again.


Walt might settle for admitting the lesser of two lies, though, which was that he faked finding the ricin so that Jesse would calm down about losing it.

That's the only thing other than death that I think would cause Jesse to give up his crusade, and we know he doesn't succeed in burning down the house.

Hopefully the show isn't done with him yet. But then again, he, much like Walt, was never supposed to last this long. Maybe his "cancer" is back as well.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I don't see how anyone can _not_ be rooting for Walt here. And why would Jessie coming to realize anything about the ricin being lifted from his pocket, even under Walt's direction, connect anything to the kid who was poisoned? The kid's poisoning wasn't by ricin. It's still explainable. Jessie's the one betraying Walt now, and at times he was on the path before, too. Through the entire association, Walt has protected and treated Jessie as if he were his own kid. Much of the bad Walt has ever done to others was to get Jessie out of some jam he'd gotten into... not necessarily entirely Jessie's fault, but sometimes it was.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

dswallow said:


> I don't see how anyone can _not_ be rooting for Walt here.


http://www.businessinsider.com/new-faces-of-meth-ads-are-utterly-harrowing-2012-12

http://klyker.com/terrifying-faces-of-meth-45-photos/

Walt is a meth cook

how can you possibly root for him


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

dswallow said:


> I don't see how anyone can _not_ be rooting for Walt here. And why would Jessie coming to realize anything about the ricin being lifted from his pocket, even under Walt's direction, connect anything to the kid who was poisoned? The kid's poisoning wasn't by ricin. It's still explainable. Jessie's the one betraying Walt now, and at times he was on the path before, too. Through the entire association, Walt has protected and treated Jessie as if he were his own kid. Much of the bad Walt has ever done to others was to get Jessie out of some jam he'd gotten into... not necessarily entirely Jessie's fault, but sometimes it was.


I agree with most of what you have said, although when Walt poisoned the kid with the flower, that was when I could no longer sympathize with him. Some people just hate anyone involved in creating, distributing, or selling drugs. I have no problem with such consensual transactions. But I have a big problem with deliberately dosing a child with poison.

What I have a hard time understanding is why people continue to think Jesse is a victim or an okay guy. As you said, Walt has spent much of the entire show cleaning up Jesse's messes -- a lot of the violence Walt has done was to fix Jesse's screw ups. Gus would have had Jesse killed early on if Walt had not protected him. And then later Jesse started making friends with Gus and Mike when the two of them were planning to kill Walt. Maybe Jesse did not intend it, but that was a betrayal of Walt. Also, it does not get much lower than going to narcotics anonymous meetings for the sole purpose of dealing drugs to the attendees.

I don't care much for Hank either. Not only is he incompetent at his job, he frequently breaks the law and abuses his power. Besides, his self-righteousness really gets on my nerves considering that he is part of the whole "war on drugs" bureaucracy that is as responsible for much of the drug-related violence as are the people who commit the violent acts.

I hope that Walt, Jesse, and Hank all have bad things happen to them. They all deserve it.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jamesl said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/new-faces-of-meth-ads-are-utterly-harrowing-2012-12
> 
> http://klyker.com/terrifying-faces-of-meth-45-photos/
> 
> ...


Meth is what the "war on drugs," and, in general, the nanny state, has created... as each popular drug being used by consenting adults is attacked and distribution affected, a new drug comes along to take its place... usually one cheaper, and more addictive, than what it replaces.

Walt makes an amazingly clean meth, and does so with the precision of a chemist and the care of an artisan. He's actually producing a consistent, pure drug that would be considered pharmaceutical quality.

People make bad choices for themselves, sometimes. In a free society, that is actually as valuable a right as any other.

In one very simple fell swoop it's possible to drastically reduce crime, making just about everyplace safer for everyone, reduce extraordinarily high incarceration rates leading to a more productive economy, practically eliminate the violence associated with drug cartels, save multi billions of dollars, at least, annually, and, well, a whole host of other benefits, effectively truly winning the war on drugs by eliminating the warmongers of that war, recognizing individual liberties, all by legalizing the consumption, sale and manufacture of recreational drugs, as well as providing a regulatory structure to ensure quality control and relative safety of the products.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

dswallow said:


> In one very simple fell swoop it's possible to drastically reduce crime, making just about everyplace safer for everyone, reduce extraordinarily high incarceration rates leading to a more productive economy, practically eliminate the violence associated with drug cartels, save multi billions of dollars, at least, annually, and, well, a whole host of other benefits, effectively truly winning the war on drugs by eliminating the warmongers of that war, recognizing individual liberties, all by legalizing the consumption, sale and manufacture of recreational drugs, as well as providing a regulatory structure to ensure quality control and relative safety of the products.


:clap. clap. clap.:

Nice soapbox. Where's the data and proof to back it up? And I'm not talking just wishful or theoretical thinking.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Peter000 said:


> Where's the data and proof to back it up? And I'm not talking just wishful or theoretical thinking.


Wrong question. Where is the "data and proof" that all of our money that the government has spent on the "war on drugs" has done more good than harm?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Wrong question. Where is the "data and proof" that all of our money that the government has spent on the "war on drugs" has done more good than harm?


I'll note that you didn't answer my question.

Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Peter000 said:


> I'll note that you didn't answer my question.


That is because it is the wrong question. Why should the government spend our money and tell us (at gunpoint) what we can and can't put in our bodies without irrefutable evidence that our money is being well spent?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

jamesl said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/new-faces-of-meth-ads-are-utterly-harrowing-2012-12
> 
> http://klyker.com/terrifying-faces-of-meth-45-photos/
> 
> ...


Because this is a fictional TV show.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> I'll note that you didn't answer my question.
> 
> Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.


Because it's OK that the status quo costs billions of taxpayer dollars and tramples civil liberties?


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

john4200 said:


> I agree with most of what you have said, although when Walt poisoned the kid with the flower, that was when I could no longer sympathize with him. Some people just hate anyone involved in creating, distributing, or selling drugs. I have no problem with such consensual transactions. But I have a big problem with deliberately dosing a child with poison.
> 
> What I have a hard time understanding is why people continue to think Jesse is a victim or an okay guy.


Jesse is guilty of many things but your last sentence is exactly why many of us see Jesse as the antithesis of WW. Jesse quit when they were willing to hang on to Todd - a child murderer. Jesse isn't comfortable with killing people unless there is a direct threat to his life -- not a loosely perceived threat.

WW will sacrifice anyone to achieve his goals -- let a drug addict die, poison kids, murder a competitive chemist, and buddy up with a guy who shot a kid down like a dog. I'm rooting to see WW removed from the earth ( or sent on "a trip to Belize" ).


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

john4200 said:


> That is because it is the wrong question. Why should the government spend our money and tell us (at gunpoint) what we can and can't put in our bodies without irrefutable evidence that our money is being well spent?


Still didn't answer the question. And it's not a "wrong" question. It's no more "wrong" than yours. Prove to me that legalizing drugs would solve the problem.



JETarpon said:


> Because it's OK that the status quo costs billions of taxpayer dollars and tramples civil liberties?


Why would legalizing drugs be any different? Billions of dollars will still be spent trying to regulate the drugs, and there would STILL be illegal street drugs floating around. We'd have twice the problems.

Anyway, this isn't the thread to argue about this. I'm not going to continue with a pointless endeavor.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

I, too, am a little confused about the ricin. I came here to get answers and the summary that was posted helped but I still am not clear on why or how Jesse made the leap from the ricin being lifted from his pocket to Brock's poisoning since the kid wasn't poisoned with ricin (which is what got him off the hook with the police at the time).


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Didn't like this episode. The confession thing was simply a vehicle that we've seen coming from a mile away. Make Hank realize that his rehab was paid for with meth money therefore he can't go to the DEA with what he knows.

And the Jesse leap with the ricin? He's not that bright and certainly not in a state of mind to be putting together the pieces of that puzzle.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Goober96 said:


> I, too, am a little confused about the ricin. I came here to get answers and the summary that was posted helped but I still am not clear on why or how Jesse made the leap from the ricin being lifted from his pocket to Brock's poisoning since the kid wasn't poisoned with ricin (which is what got him off the hook with the police at the time).


After the kid got poisoned, Jessie met up with Walt and it was Walt who suggested that Jessie had the doctors check for the ricin since it would not easliy be seen in the tox screens. Jessie later pulls a gun on Walt - blaming Walt for making the kid sick and even said Huey took it off him during his visit to Saul. Walt deflects this and blames Gus saying Gus had it taken from Jessie's locker at work. After the kid recovers from a NON ricin poison - Jessie is so messed in the head he thinks he lost the ricin and now someone else may find it and die. Walt tries to help his state of mind by making the 'salty' ricin tube and eventually plants it in the roomba during his search with Jessie at Jessie's house. One of them takes it to be flushed.... Whew......


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

NJ_HB said:


> After the kid got poisoned, Jessie met up with Walt and it was Walt who suggested that Jessie had the doctors check for the ricin since it would not easliy be seen in the tox screens. Jessie later pulls a gun on Walt - blaming Walt for making the kid sick and even said Huey took it off him during his visit to Saul. Walt deflects this and blames Gus saying Gus had it taken from Jessie's locker at work. After the kid recovers from a NON ricin poison - Jessie is so messed in the head he thinks he lost the ricin and now someone else may find it and die. Walt tries to help his state of mind by making the 'salty' ricin tube and eventually plants it in the roomba during his search with Jessie at Jessie's house. Whew......


Yeah I got all that but still doesn't tell me why Jessie thinks Walt had anything to do with the poisoning since the ricin wasn't used.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Goober96 said:


> Yeah I got all that but still doesn't tell me why Jessie thinks Walt had anything to do with the poisoning since the ricin wasn't used.


One more try..The ricin was initially intended for Gus; Gus had taken Jessie under his wing, even though he didn't like him. Walt was not sure where that relationship was going and knew he had to drive a wedge between Gus and Jessie. (Soon Gus would have no use for Walt.) The wedge was to make Gus seemed like he had hurt yet another kid, (Jessie loves kids) thus the ricin/poison story. After the kid recovers Jessie thinks it was Walt all along and pulls a gun on him (Walt is in hiding at this point.) Walt even says something along the lines of, I should have know it was going to be you, but manages to convince Jessie it was Gus. (I may have the timeline screwed up a little here.)

This most recent scene where Jessie realizes that he once again had something lifted made him realized that it was Walt all along who poisoned Brock. It was Walt and he even knew it then.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)




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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Goober96 said:


> Yeah I got all that but still doesn't tell me why Jessie thinks Walt had anything to do with the poisoning since the ricin wasn't used.


I was very confused about this also. The only thing I could think of was that he found the pack of cigarettes that he and Walt hid the one ricin cigarette in and something clicked in his head and he decided to go back and kill Walt for all the lies.

I actually thought that maybe Walt had planted the cigarette pack on Jesse when he gave him that hug in the desert.

As for the hug, it was nice on Walt's part but very staged and Jesse didn't really hug back. I almost got the feel of Christ/Judas vibe. Walt knowing that Jesse will have to try and betray him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> As for the hug, it was nice on Walt's part but very staged and Jesse didn't really hug back. I almost got the feel of Christ/Judas vibe. Walt knowing that Jesse will have to try and betray him.


Yeah, I didn't even think it was nice. Walt's not so far gone that he'd just have Jesse whacked, but I don't think he's too far from being that far gone. The hug was all about manipulation, and not at all about personal feelings (let's face it, even at his best Walt isn't a hugging kind of guy to begin with).


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I have no doubt Walt would have killed Jesse had he not agreed to leave town.


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

Marie was, understandably, cold-hearted when she told Walt to just kill himself. And that was even before she saw Walt's "confession" video. 

Makes you wonder if the kleptomania she exhibited in the first few episodes was meant to lay a foundation of an "emotion trumps reason" brand of lawlessness in her. 

Hmm, what's the over/under on Marie being the one to kill Walt?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Because this is a fictional TV show.


Right. (silly argument)

You root for Walt because the **** he does is the reason you watch the show.

I don't think the hug was disingenuous - at least not completely. As someone said earlier - a lot of the bad stuff that Walt has done, was done to save or protect Jesse.

I also don't understand the Ricin thing. Jesse knows that it was not Ricin that poisoned Brock - so what is there to piece together....though, as we saw this week, they do a pretty good job of answering questions that stymie us from the week before.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I actually thought that maybe Walt had planted the cigarette pack on Jesse when he gave him that hug in the desert.


It's just the brand Jesse smokes (i.e. not planted), but in combination with *just* having the pot lifted from him by Huel, and the extreme perseverating in the previous season about *where* the missing ricin cigarette went, he finally figured out that it was Saul/Huel who lifted it, and the only person who could have told them to do it was Walt.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Hank said:


> It's just the brand Jesse smokes (i.e. not planted), but in combination with *just* having the pot lifted from him by Huel, and the extreme perseverating in the previous season about *where* the missing ricin cigarette went, he finally figured out that it was Saul/Huel who lifted it, and the only person who could have told them to do it was Walt.


but they "found" the Ricin in the Roomba and Ricin did not poison Brock - so....???


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.


Not sure I believe the "fantastical" claims either.

But -- did the repeal of Prohibition lead to a country full of alcoholics?

(Did Prohibition actually reduce alcohol abuse?)


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

MonsterJoe said:


> but they "found" the Ricin in the Roomba and Ricin did not poison Brock - so....???


So Jesse realized that Walt manipulated the whole situation and was the one who poisoned Brock.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

MonsterJoe said:


> but they "found" the Ricin in the Roomba and Ricin did not poison Brock - so....???


It's really convoluted (and explained above), but Walt used the missing ricin to help convince Jesse that it was Gus who poisoned the kid and not Walt.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

No it doesn't explain anything (well)...because if the Dr. said that it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock, then there is no reason for Jesse to connect the missing Ricin to anything...especially since he later "finds" it.

If we were hanging out and you had a one dollar bill...and the next day I bought a candy bar, then you noticed you were missing your dollar bill - you might suspect I took your dollar bill. Yes? 

If you then spoke with the cashier who sold me the candy bar and they told you that I paid with a five dollar bill - and you later FOUND your one dollar bill under your bed...you would then have absolutely no reason to connect me to the missing one dollar bill.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I agree, the whole "Jesse figures it all out" stuff was over the top. He went from Zombie to rational way too quick. But the rest of the episode was spot on. And I like how they went a long time without a break during the crucial mid episode scenes. (I watch on a delay so I can FF but still nice to not break it up)


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> I agree, the whole "Jesse figures it all out" stuff was over the top. He went from Zombie to rational way too quick. But the rest of the episode was spot on. And I like how they went a long time without a break during the crucial mid episode scenes. (I watch on a delay so I can FF but still nice to not break it up)


It's still bugging me because of the way he searched for it. He was DESPERATE to find it. To actually FIND it. It's like he was EXPECTING to find it. Like he STILL had one on him all this time. We had seen him do this frantic search before. But now I was reminded that once Walt planted one in the Roomba, Jesse stopped carrying on him. And yet, he sure as acted like it still should have ben there.

I'm OK with him figuring it out. But now I am thinking just maybe there could have been a better way to do it. Maybe not such a frantic search for. Look for weed. Realize it's gone. <Sigh>. Grab the cigarettes. Open box. Then realize it then.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> No it doesn't explain anything (well)...because if the Dr. said that it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock, then there is no reason for Jesse to connect the missing Ricin to anything...especially since he later "finds" it.
> 
> If we were hanging out and you had a one dollar bill...and the next day I bought a candy bar, then you noticed you were missing your dollar bill - you might suspect I took your dollar bill. Yes?
> 
> If you then spoke with the cashier who sold me the candy bar and they told you that I paid with a five dollar bill - and you later FOUND your one dollar bill under your bed...you would then have absolutely no reason to connect me to the missing one dollar bill.


Unless you were a known thief. Then I might I still have suspicions.

I think that is the point here. Jesse has seen some pretty elaborate plans by Walt to make people think he didn't do something. I think in Jessie's mind, putting the pieces together that he stole the ricin cigarette was enough for him to think Walt was going to poison Brock with the ricin, realized Jessie would find out, poisoned him with something else and used it all as a cover up.


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> No it doesn't explain anything (well)...because if the Dr. said that it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock, then there is no reason for Jesse to connect the missing Ricin to anything...


It's not about the Ricin, it's confirmation of one of Walt's lies . Jessie now has incontrovertible proof that Walt is able to lie convincingly about anything. Walt at first tried to blame Gus for the missing ricin, which Jesse now knows was a complete lie, confirmed by Saul. Walt told that lie while under the duress of Jesse's gun pointing straight between his eyes, so he's exceptionally good at it.

Now, Jesse is free to assume that everything else Walt has every told him is also a lie, so he's raging.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

^^^^ yes, that ^^^^^

And it also confirms (in Jesse's mind) that Walt lied about Mike.

Just imagine if Jesse finds out about Jane (not that he needs any more proof about Mr. White).


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Carlucci said:


> It's not about the Ricin, it's confirmation of one of Walt's lies . Jessie now has incontrovertible proof that Walt is able to lie convincingly about anything. Walt at first tried to blame Gus for the missing ricin, which Jesse now knows was a complete lie, confirmed by Saul. Walt told that lie while under the duress of Jesse's gun pointing straight between his eyes, so he's exceptionally good at it.
> 
> Now, Jesse is free to assume that everything else Walt has every told him is also a lie, so he's raging.


This. He always suspected WW was behind his troubles and put it all together. That is how the mind works sometimes. It ties into his entire day including the manipulation in the desert.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> The hug was all about manipulation, and not at all about personal feelings (let's face it, even at his best Walt isn't a hugging kind of guy to begin with).


That hug reminded me of some Godfather scene. I fully expected WW to kill him during that hug but them realized it would not have been a smart move. WW is vile but not stupid.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> I'll note that you didn't answer my question.
> 
> Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.


Umm, the country is full of addicts now. Haven't you noticed? "Addicts" may be too strong. "Users" is probably better.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

Walt gave a sharp look to Skylar when she said something to Hank about "it's all in the past"


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

dswallow said:


> Walt makes an amazingly clean poison, and does so with the precision of a chemist and the care of an artisan. He's actually producing a consistent, pure poison that would be considered pharmaceutical quality.


yes, i agree


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

dimented said:


> Unless you were a known thief. Then I might I still have suspicions.
> 
> I think that is the point here. Jesse has seen some pretty elaborate plans by Walt to make people think he didn't do something. I think in Jessie's mind, putting the pieces together that he stole the ricin cigarette was enough for him to think Walt was going to poison Brock with the ricin, realized Jessie would find out, poisoned him with something else and used it all as a cover up.


Nope - it was only a matter of hours between when we think huell lifted it, and when Jesse got the call about Brock in the hospital.. Ricin takes a few days to have effect.

I don't really care - I'll suspend disbelief for the sake of enjoyment...but as long as it was brought up, it was pretty sloppy storytelling for such a good show.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> Still didn't answer the question. And it's not a "wrong" question. It's no more "wrong" than yours. Prove to me that legalizing drugs would solve the problem.
> 
> Why would legalizing drugs be any different? Billions of dollars will still be spent trying to regulate the drugs, and there would STILL be illegal street drugs floating around. We'd have twice the problems.


There's a huge profit margin; that's what makes it attractive to criminals. How many criminals sell snack chips? There's not a huge profit to be made there. And there is a huge, competitive, marketplace.

Prices drop drastically. Quality would improve. It would be far less necessary for "addicts" to be robbing people on the street or burglarizing homes to pay for that habit. Police could focus on violent crimes. We wouldn't have prisons filled with people whose only crime was using an "illegal" drug, or possessing some amount of it for their own or their friends use. Billions of dollars could go towards improving and replacing crumbling infrastructure instead of wasted on fruitless labor that time and again is proven not to help one bit.

Take a legal drug: tobacco. When did criminals become interested in selling cigarettes? When it started to get taxed more than other products. When did liquor become a criminal empire? When government attempted to make it illegal.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jamesl said:


> yes, i agree


You're confusing the drugs Walt makes to the chemotherapy drugs that are legal.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> Why would legalizing drugs be any different? Billions of dollars will still be spent trying to regulate the drugs, and there would STILL be illegal street drugs floating around. We'd have twice the problems.


We don't spend billions of dollars regulating alcohol, and we don't still have illegal speakeasies floating around.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Umm, the country is full of addicts now. Haven't you noticed? "Addicts" may be too strong. "Users" is probably better.


Users aren't addicts. What's wrong with users?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> We don't spend billions of dollars regulating alcohol


There are many many many regulations for alcohol. Federal. State. Local. It's a huge mishmash of a mess.


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

I'm kinda surprised that no one has commented on the tank full of methylene being towed back to New Mexico.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sgsmith said:


> I'm kinda surprised that no one has commented on the tank full of methylene being towed back to New Mexico.


Yeah, how obvious was that....


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

SugarBowl said:


> Walt gave a sharp look to Skylar when she said something to Hank about "it's all in the past"


Yeah I felt what Walt was feeling at that point. She just admitted there was an "it". Walt hadn't admitted anything like that yet.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way I saw a look in Walt's eye after Marie suggested that he commit suicide. She said something like "you're saying the problem goes away if you die, right? Then just commit suicide - kill yourself".

It was almost like he was considering staging suicide as an out (while lying about it). It would explain neighbor Carol's reaction to seeing Walt.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

I thought at least part of the reason Jesse was pissed back when he accused Walt of taking the cigarette was that Walt let Jesse falsely believe that he (Jesse) was responsible for what happened to Brock. If Gus stole the cigarette, then Walt did not stand by and callously allow Jesse to beat himself up over something that wasn't his fault. Jesse has now confirmed that Walt did not give a [email protected] that Jesse was tormented by what he perceived to be his part in Brock getting sick. That he eventually learned that Brock did not in fact injest ricin is besides the point, he spent a decent period of time wracked by guilt.

ETA: Nevermind. Later posts have triggered my memory and I now realize that this was completely wrong.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

When did Walt and Jesse stop trusting each other? I am not sure what I mean here, but it seems like they were at least doing okay with each other - watching each other's backs and such for a couple seasons. 

Was it Jane dying? I just rewatched 4 Days Out and it seemed they were good/as good as ever - then. Was it Gus trying to split them apart? Or Mike and even then Jesse got between Mike's gun and Walt.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> It would explain neighbor Carol's reaction to seeing Walt.


I think Carol's reaction is explained by seeing the man who she's heard all the horrible\evil things about by the time we see her.


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## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

I think that a big part of the reason that Jesse put together what happened with the ricin goes back to the desert scene. When Jesse asks if Walt is going to kill him, like he killed Mike, Walt never denies killing Mike. So up until that point, Jesse has suspicions, but I think that this confirmed it for him. So he decides to disappear, knowing that if he doesn't he is going to take a trip to Belize.

So at the point where Jesse realizes that his pot has been lifted, he no longer trusts anything that Walt has told him. So he figures out that Saul/Huell lifted the ricin, so he goes to them first, not to Walt. He knows that Saul is involved in the Ricin disappearing, but he gets Saul to admit what happened, so he then is certain that Walt was involved. So why would Walt direct Saul to steal the ricin, then make it reappear? Because the whole ricin incident, and Brocks poisoning was Walt playing Jesse, and I don't think at this point it matters much whether Jesse knows or suspects that Walt really did poison Brock. What matters, is that Walt manipulated the situation, led Jesse and the doctors to believe it was Ricin, Jesse believing that Gus was responsible, and leading to Jesse almost murdering Gus. And IMO that is why Jesse is striking back at Walt, not because he knows that Walt poisoned Brock, but because Jesse knows that the whole thing was Walt attempting to work Jesse.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> By the way I saw a look in Walt's eye after Marie suggested that he commit suicide. She said something like "you're saying the problem goes away if you die, right? Then just commit suicide - kill yourself".
> 
> It was almost like he was considering staging suicide as an out (while lying about it). It would explain neighbor Carol's reaction to seeing Walt.


See this POST in the ep 9 thread...that's my theory.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> See this POST in the ep 9 thread...that's my theory.


I think if Walt was dead, he would've picked a more discrete time to go back to the house. Of course, if the reason he would need to fake his death is irrelevant at that point, he just wouldn't care.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

If Jesse is that mad at Walt is there any reason for him to NOT tell the cops everything?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

SugarBowl said:


> Walt gave a sharp look to Skylar when she said something to Hank about "it's all in the past"


Up to that point, Walt had been cagily and carefully speaking in hypotheticals with Hank, even during their garage fight. Saying "it's all in the past" was a direct admission by Skylar.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> See this POST in the ep 9 thread...that's my theory.


Yeah that's what I was referring to - your post.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

modnar said:


> I think Carol's reaction is explained by seeing the man who she's heard all the horrible\evil things about by the time we see her.


Not to mention what he's done to her property value...


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> Nope - it was only a matter of hours between when we think huell lifted it, and when Jesse got the call about Brock in the hospital.. Ricin takes a few days to have effect.
> 
> I don't really care - I'll suspend disbelief for the sake of enjoyment...but as long as it was brought up, it was pretty sloppy storytelling for such a good show.


I'm fairly certain that Jesse doesn't think Walt used the ricin on Brock. I think that deep inside, Jesse has always been suspicious of how Walt found the "missing ricin", and of the flower with ricin-like symptoms that Brock had gotten ahold of coincidently when his ricin went missing.

He did consider that Huell might have taken his ricin during his unusually intrusive pat-down, but dismissed it without any other evidence that Huell had had that skill.

When Jesse was searching his pockets for his weed, he knew that he had had it on him just before walking out the door, and thus probably quickly came to the conclusion that Huell had taken it, and was pissed off at him for doing so. He then reached for his cigarettes to smoke one of those instead, and as he pulled the pack out of his pocket, remembered the only other time Huell had invaded his space, just before he found out that Brock had been poisoned.

I'm sure he recalled that Walt had claimed to have found the ricin later on, but at the same time was suspicious of the fact that it mysteriously showed up only when Walt came to help him look for it.

It didn't matter that Walt hadn't used the ricin on Brock. What mattered was that Walt had taken the ricin, which meant that he had lied about finding it and also not knowing what had happened to it. It also meant that it was likely that he had poisoned Brock since it would have been too coincidental for Walt to have wanted the ricin stolen just before Brock got poisoned with something that showed similar symptoms.

There is still some reasonable doubt that Walt might be able to take advantage of, however, in order to explain his way out of this situation. It will be interesting to see what he does next week.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

betts4 said:


> If Jesse is that mad at Walt is there any reason for him to NOT tell the cops everything?


Because he hates Hank, is not a fan of cops, and is an irrational criminal?


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

betts4 said:


> If Jesse is that mad at Walt is there any reason for him to NOT tell the cops everything?


Yes. He can't stand Hank either, and I don't think he wants to go to jail. I don't think Jesse turns state's evidence, but if he does, he'll be dead even sooner than I think he'll be dead.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I thought the realization of the Ricin was brilliant. Jesse suddenly realized that Huell is really good at pickpocketing things, and that suddenly explains how he lost the Ricin cigarette. He'd never fully accepted the explanation that Gus stole it, or that it got lost in his house. That was all just too convenient. And now he has confirmation that Huell takes things from his pocket at the direction of Saul. So it wasn't a big leap for him to then suspect that Huell had done the same thing with the Ricin, and he wasn't about to head off to Alaska without confirming his suspicions, so he goes back to Saul's office and Saul confirms what Jesse suspected: Walt was manipulating Jesse all along, even using a very sick little boy to work Jesse, and potentially even causing that boy to be sick.

Or what BitbyBlit posted (much better than I did) while I was typing.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

danterner said:


> Up to that point, Walt had been cagily and carefully speaking in hypotheticals with Hank, even during their garage fight. Saying "it's all in the past" was a direct admission by Skylar.


But the video was far more of a direct admission than Skylar's statement, so I don't think Walt would have been upset about that if he had been willing to go through with giving Hank and Marie the video.

I think by that point their statements were more CYA than trying to still hide their actions from Hank and Marie. At the beginning of dinner, they might have been still holding on to the slim hope that Hank and Marie would let this drop, but by the time Skylar made her comment, it was more about asking them, "What will be gained by going after us?" than attempting to proclaim their innocence.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> I think that deep inside, Jesse has always been suspicious of how Walt found the "missing ricin", and of the flower with ricin-like symptoms that Brock had gotten ahold of coincidently when his ricin went missing.


Nope on that point (at least the "always"). After they found the salt-ricin-substitute in the Roomba and Walt went to the bathroom to flush it, Jesse went into tears, beating himself up for almost having shot Mr. White. At that point there's no question that Jesse believed Walt.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I really think Hank not telling anyone about his knowledge about who Heisenberg is is gonna be a big problem for him.


Yes, but so would telling.

He's in a tough spot. He'd better tell the writers to get really clever or he's not going to have a career left.

Walt really owns him. Hank may be the better fighter, but Walt is much smarter.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Not me.
> 
> There have been moments where I was angry (usually relating to Jessie), but Walt is designed to be the character you identify with (EVEN as he goes deeper and deeper into darkness). I find it almost entertaining watching people root against him. I think one of the challenges was seeing how far they could get the audience to go on rooting for Walt. There's a majority of me that right now IS rooting for him (and if he meant that hug, he still has me on his side).
> 
> And before you go judging me - it's fiction.  So I'm allowed to enjoy a consequence-free story.


I'm rooting for Walt too. I'm ready for Jessie to visit Belize. He needs to be eliminated.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> But the video was far more of a direct admission than Skylar's statement, so I don't think Walt would have been upset about that if he had been willing to go through with giving Hank and Marie the video.
> 
> I think by that point their statements were more CYA than trying to still hide their actions from Hank and Marie. At the beginning of dinner, they might have been still holding on to the slim hope that Hank and Marie would let this drop, but by the time Skylar made her comment, it was more about asking them, "What will be gained by going after us?" than attempting to proclaim their innocence.


I think that the reason that they had the discussion at the table at all (instead of just handing them the disc) was to see if there was any last chance of a scenario in which they didn't have to hand them the disc.. (not a "hey we didn't do it", but a "hey you can't prove anything that you're claiming we did" kind of thing). I think Walt was also acting as if every discussion with Hank was recorded, just to be safe. Skyler's comment isn't as bad if they eventually give them the disc, but before that, there was a microscopic chance that they didn't have to do that (which Walt probably would have preferred).


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Marco said:


> Not sure I believe the "fantastical" claims either.
> 
> But -- did the repeal of Prohibition lead to a country full of alcoholics?
> 
> (Did Prohibition actually reduce alcohol abuse?)


Alcohol usage went down about 50%. It did not return to pre-prohibition levels until around 1940, about 7 years after it had been eliminated.

The crime that sprung up around it, and diminished when it was removed is exactly analogous to the drug war. If you take the profit out of the illicit drugs, the criminal element will go elsewhere. We proved that with Prohibition, and people looking for data should examine that data.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Goober96 said:


> I, too, am a little confused about the ricin. I came here to get answers and the summary that was posted helped but I still am not clear on why or how Jesse made the leap from the ricin being lifted from his pocket to Brock's poisoning since the kid wasn't poisoned with ricin (which is what got him off the hook with the police at the time).


I think they missed the mark a bit on this plot because it has so many threads.


The ricin cig disappears. - Huell took it for Walt.
The kid gets poisoned - It was Jesse's ricin!
Walt poisoned the kid! - To get Jesse in line?
GUS poisoned the kid! - Why, exactly? Walt is on Jesse's side?

It wasn't ricin! - Wha??? How did the kid get sick?

Oh. Here's the ricin in the Roomba! GOTO 5



fmowry said:


> Didn't like this episode. The confession thing was simply a vehicle that we've seen coming from a mile away. Make Hank realize that his rehab was paid for with meth money therefore he can't go to the DEA with what he knows.


There's a huge flaw in Walt's "confession." If Hank is the mastermind *why doesn't Hank have all the money?* Walt says that Hank forced him to pay the hospital bill. Why does _Hank need Walt's_ money?

Where was Hank when the bad stuff went down? An invalid collecting minerals?

I still say that Hank can go to the DEA higher ups and lay it all out. Sure, his career is over, but Walt is toast.



Bierboy said:


> See this POST in the ep 9 thread...that's my theory.


That conclusion just occurred to me. I see that some already came to it.

Walt goes to war with the Aryans & Czechs running the business using the canon to take them all out.

Then Walt who has only days left to live, takes the ricin himself.

The only factor is whether the writers let Walt succeed in talking care of his family in the end.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

VegasVic said:


> I agree, the whole "Jesse figures it all out" stuff was over the top. He went from Zombie to rational way too quick. But the rest of the episode was spot on. And I like how they went a long time without a break during the crucial mid episode scenes. (I watch on a delay so I can FF but still nice to not break it up)


I was very confused too, and figured I just missed a detail somewhere -- I do that a lot.

So perhaps Jessie (how do you spell his name?) just flipped out? Pot stolen, reminded of the ricin when he grabs his pack of cigs... realizes he's just been a patsy this whole time and Walt is generally using and abusing him.

He'd been kinda catatonic and perhaps just flipped out and went Beast Mode?


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Jessie knew it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock while the kid was still in the hospital. The doctor told him that it was Lilly of the Valley. Walt didn't want to kill the kid, but he needed to make sure Jessie was back firmly on his side. The "ricin" ending up in the Roomba was just a convenient way for Walt to close the loop.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

One problem I had with the confession video: If Hank is the mastermind behind this huge meth empire, and the one forcing Heisenberg to cook for him, then why does Hank need Walt to pay $177k for Hank's medical bills? Why couldn't Hank pay for them himself? Are we to believe that Hank is running the empire but that Walt is making all the money?

Edit: I was typing as netringer made his post.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

JoeyJoJo said:


> Jessie knew it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock while the kid was still in the hospital. The doctor told him that it was Lilly of the Valley. Walt didn't want to kill the kid, but he needed to make sure Jessie was back firmly on his side. The "ricin" ending up in the Roomba was just a convenient way for Walt to close the loop.


How does Brock getting poisoned by Lily of the Valley bring Jesse to Walt? How did Gus have a hand in that?

See? Some threads are left dangling.

Jesse had to make permanent decisions based on what he knew at the time, but didn't wise up later when he knew the truth.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

jgickler said:


> I think that a big part of the reason that Jesse put together what happened with the ricin goes back to the desert scene. When Jesse asks if Walt is going to kill him, like he killed Mike, Walt never denies killing Mike. So up until that point, Jesse has suspicions, but I think that this confirmed it for him. So he decides to disappear, knowing that if he doesn't he is going to take a trip to Belize.
> 
> So at the point where Jesse realizes that his pot has been lifted, he no longer trusts anything that Walt has told him. So he figures out that Saul/Huell lifted the ricin, so he goes to them first, not to Walt. He knows that Saul is involved in the Ricin disappearing, but he gets Saul to admit what happened, so he then is certain that Walt was involved. So why would Walt direct Saul to steal the ricin, then make it reappear? Because the whole ricin incident, and Brocks poisoning was Walt playing Jesse, and I don't think at this point it matters much whether Jesse knows or suspects that Walt really did poison Brock. What matters, is that Walt manipulated the situation, led Jesse and the doctors to believe it was Ricin, Jesse believing that Gus was responsible, and leading to Jesse almost murdering Gus. And IMO that is why Jesse is striking back at Walt, not because he knows that Walt poisoned Brock, but because Jesse knows that the whole thing was Walt attempting to work Jesse.


I can get behind this one. Thanks. :up:


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

sgsmith said:


> I'm kinda surprised that no one has commented on the tank full of methylene*Methylamine* being towed back to New Mexico.


FYP. Could anyone tell just how "full" it was? Sure, it was the tank of Methylamine, but it went by pretty quick.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> One problem I had with the confession video: If Hank is the mastermind behind this huge meth empire, and the one forcing Heisenberg to cook for him, then why does Hank need Walt to pay $177k for Hank's medical bills? Why couldn't Hank pay for them himself? Are we to believe that Hank is running the empire but that Walt is making all the money?
> 
> Edit: I was typing as netringer made his post.


That is kind of a hole, yes.

But perhaps Hank didn't want the money in his possession until he was ready to quit the DEA and go buy an island somewhere?

Perhaps Walt was the "accountant" in this arrangement? Or the only one with "clean" money at the time?

Perhaps the cash was tied up in product and inventory and suppliers at the exact moment he needed to pay the medical bills and Walt was the only member of the team with spending cash?


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Jessie gets bumped at Saul's.

Brock is admitted to the hospital with an unknown poison.

Jessie goes out to have a smoke and finds his "lucky" cigarette gone.

Jessie panics and tells the doctors to test for ricin, and gets interrogated about why he'd think of ricin.

Jessie goes to Mr White's house believing that Walt is trying to manipulate him, and Walt grabs the barrel of the gun and puts it to his own head to convince Jessie it wasn't him, but Gus, since Gus had already had a kid killed. Jessie believes Walt.

Jessie finds out it wasn't ricin poisoning, but he's still missing his cigarette. 

Walt solves that problem with the Roomba, AND gets control of the ricin back.

Jessie walks away when Todd kills the kid. He's seen Walt kill many times, including Gus and all of Mike's guys. He suspects that Walt killed Mike too.

Walt still has enough of a hold on Jessie that when he hugs him, it sways him enough to accept the idea of a new identity.

When he realizes his pot is missing, Jessie finally puts it together that Saul's dude took it. He gets the rest of the info from Saul.

People keep saying that Jessie was a zombie. He wasn't acting the way he was because he was stoned. That's not it at all. He was coherent when he talked to Hank, and he was coherent when he talked to Walt in the desert. He's just been emotionally shut down since Todd killed the kid, and he realized that Walt could also kill him. He's been waiting for that.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Hank said:


> FYP. Could anyone tell just how "full" it was? Sure, it was the tank of Methylamine, but it went by pretty quick.


I would have to go back to see exactly how full, but I specifically remember seeing the liquid sloshing around in the tank as they drove.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

netringer said:


> I think they missed the mark a bit on this plot because it has so many threads.
> 
> 
> The ricin cig disappears. - Huell took it for Walt.
> ...


This has already been covered so well in this thread, it's hard to believe we have to describe it again, but there should be no "?"s in a list like that:


They make Ricin to kill Gus
Jesse declines to use it
Walt fears for his life since he thinks Gus pulling in Jesse will make Walt an unnecessary liability
Walt tells Saul to have Huell steal the ricin so that Jesse sees that it's missing
Walt does NOT use the ricin (never planned to) - instead he uses Lillies of the Valley to get the kid sick but not dead.
Walt waits for Jesse to arrive, and convinces him that Gus (who has already killed kids) has just poisoned this kid with the Ricin. Walt has now convinced Jesse that Gus needs to die
Walt hides the ricin for a rainy day.
The hospital tells Jesse that it wasn't ricin after all, it was lillies of the valley
Jesse figures out that he now doesn't have an explanation why his ricin is missing (since Gus clearly didn't steal it and poison the kid with it, since ricin wasn't used)
Jesse worries that he carelessly lost the cigarette with ricin and that some kid will smoke it and die
Walt creates fake ricin to ease his concerns. He comes over and helps him search, then sneaks it in the roomba. They find it.
Jesse beating himself up crying that he almost shot Walt over this.



netringer said:


> There's a huge flaw in Walt's "confession." If Hank is the mastermind *why doesn't Hank have all the money?* Walt says that Hank forced him to pay the hospital bill. Why does _Hank need Walt's_ money?


That's a good point, I need to listen to the confession tape again.



netringer said:


> That conclusion just occurred to me. I see that some already came to it.
> 
> Walt goes to war with the Aryans & Czechs running the business using the canon to take them all out.
> 
> Then Walt who has only days left to live, takes the ricin himself.


No way Walt takes the ricin himself. It's a long slow death, with flu-like symptoms. A bullet to the brain is very quick. Jumping off of a bridge. Other science-based ideas. No way Walt takes it (unless there's some poetic angle to it that we don't see yet). The whole point of ricin vs anything else is that it looks like an accident. We've covered this multiple times for the past few weeks in these threads.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

I agree with jkeegan. There is no way that Walt takes the ricin. He's fought so hard to stay alive that I don't see suicide as an option for him at all.

My take on the confession is that Walt didn't need it to be Perfect, it just has to make enough questions to make things even more uncomfortable for Hank. It also shows what a convincing liar Walt can be.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Hard to reply with quoted posts, this thread is moving so fast...

One request: If y'all want to debate Prohibition and drug laws and yada yada, get a room. We have PLENTY to discuss without being siderailed with this.



jsmeeker said:


> he did say that
> 
> but that was just a general rant that started out when the other guy mentioned the "plugs" in old airplane seats where the ashtray used to be. Lamenting that you can no longer smoke on airplanes. The nanny state. The bike helmet thing fits the theme. I don't think it was intended to be a link to the kid that Todd shot.


I think it was intended, by the writers, to make us think about the kid. And start us wondering how it was going to be brought up in this scene. Then it wasn't.

The Breaking Bad writers are masters at foreshadowing, then not going there. It's part of what makes this show so powerful to watch. One keeps thinking "oh wow they're gonna go THERE", and then they don't.



Beryl said:


> I hope so too. I was on the edge of my seat with Jesse in the desert. I wanted to kill WW myself if he had hurt Jesse. I so want to put Jesse in my purse and keep him safe.


You realize you are talking about a person who committed a cold, pre-meditated murder. 

THAT'S the power of BB.:up:



fmowry said:


> Didn't like this episode. The confession thing was simply a vehicle that we've seen coming from a mile away. Make Hank realize that his rehab was paid for with meth money therefore he can't go to the DEA with what he knows.
> 
> And the Jesse leap with the ricin? He's not that bright and certainly not in a state of mind to be putting together the pieces of that puzzle.


Disagree. Maybe you saw the fake confession thing coming, but as an avid reader of all things BB, I never once read anyone say anything about how smart it would be to have Walt implicate Hank in a fake confession. We talked about how Hank is so tied up in WW's dealings that it's gonna be hard for him to come out smelling clean. But this fake confession--absolute genius.

And disagree. Jesse is that bright, and he's spent the last year immersed in the world of Walter White. He's obsesses over his life's journey, and yeah, I think he makes that leap.



Carlucci said:


> It's not about the Ricin, it's confirmation of one of Walt's lies . Jessie now has incontrovertible proof that Walt is able to lie convincingly about anything. Walt at first tried to blame Gus for the missing ricin, which Jesse now knows was a complete lie, confirmed by Saul. Walt told that lie while under the duress of Jesse's gun pointing straight between his eyes, so he's exceptionally good at it.
> 
> Now, Jesse is free to assume that everything else Walt has every told him is also a lie, so he's raging.


This. He knows Mr. White lies to him. All the time.



betts4 said:


> When did Walt and Jesse stop trusting each other? I am not sure what I mean here, but it seems like they were at least doing okay with each other - watching each other's backs and such for a couple seasons.
> 
> Was it Jane dying? I just rewatched 4 Days Out and it seemed they were good/as good as ever - then. Was it Gus trying to split them apart? Or Mike and even then Jesse got between Mike's gun and Walt.


I think the straw was when Matt Damon killed the kid on the bike, and WW just took a "well, geez, that was bad but it happened so let's move on" attitude. Jesses couldn't stomach the kid being cold-blooded killed, and he basically walked away from meth & Mr. White at that point.


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

We know Walt made millions in his empire, but do the feds? maybe he only made tens of thousands, and maybe Hank only made tens of thousands and that's why Hank needed Walt to pay his medical bills.

There's a money trail, but how detailed is it really?


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

astrohip said:


> I think the straw was when _*the young*_ Matt Damon _*look-alike*_ killed the kid on the bike, and WW just took a "well, geez, that was bad but it happened so let's move on" attitude. Jesses couldn't stomach the kid being cold-blooded killed, and he basically walked away from meth & Mr. White at that point.


FYP.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BradJW said:


> We know Walt made millions in his empire, but do the feds? maybe he only made tens of thousands, and maybe Hank only made tens of thousands and that's why Hank needed Walt to pay his medical bills.
> 
> There's a money trail, but how detailed is it really?


I think the Feds know that with how much of Heisenberg's blue meth they've been finding all over the Southwest, and knowing the street prices of meth, that whoever is behind the blue meth empire must be either raking in the cash by the millions or is a very inefficient drug kingpin.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Disagree. Maybe you saw the fake confession thing coming, but as an avid reader of all things BB, I never once read anyone say anything about how smart it would be to have Walt implicate Hank in a fake confession. We talked about how Hank is so tied up in WW's dealings that it's gonna be hard for him to come out smelling clean. But this fake confession--absolute genius.


I guess because you didn't uncover anything in your in depth reading, nobody can come to another conclusion unless they spend hours in BB threads hypothesizing about future episodes?

I knew when Walt started taping the "confession" and they quickly cut away that it was certainly not going to be Walt actually coming clean on anything. Anyone who has watched the series should have realized that. Walt's always 5 steps ahead. Confessing would be him giving up. Not in his DNA. Especially with the cancer back.


----------



## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

There are lots of ways you can get to Hank being a penny-less drug lord. It could easily be written off as a cash flow problem IMO. Either he was cash poor, maybe due to buying supplies, building a lab, or some other concocted situation where he needed cash, or maybe he had the cash, but had not laundered it yet, so he couldn't spend it. It did occur as a hole to me last night, but I don't think it is a big enough hole to save Hank, and it could easily be explained away.

Also, could someone refresh my memory. When Hank was shot, what was Walt's financial situation? He wasn't on his own at that point. Was he working for Gus in the laundry, or was it before that? Is it possible at the point where Hank was shot, Hank's ficticious meth business was in its infancy, and that could explain why he needed to rely on Walt, who maybe was more frugal with his money?


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

astrohip said:


> I think it was intended, by the writers, to make us think about the kid. And start us wondering how it was going to be brought up in this scene. Then it wasn't.


+1

The moment the camera focused on the pack of cigarettes I flashed back to the ricin and started trying to connect dots.


> And disagree. Jesse is that bright, and he's spent the last year immersed in the world of Walter White. He's obsesses over his life's journey, and yeah, I think he makes that leap.


Yep. Jesse has learned a LOT in this last year. It's not just Walt who's changed.



MonsterJoe said:


> Nope - it was only a matter of hours between when we think huell lifted it, and when Jesse got the call about Brock in the hospital.. Ricin takes a few days to have effect.


You have a hundred dollar bill in a kitchen drawer. A neighbor kid goes inside to use the bathroom and several hours later you notice the money is missing. You assume the kid took it, even talk to his parents.

Later you learn your spouse took the money on the way to the store.

You apologize to the kid and his parents and know, 100%, that he is not responsible, but that doesn't mean you forget it ever happened. The next time money goes missing you will remember that day, even though you don't think the neighbor took it.



Gunnyman said:


> Was the waiter, the same one from Office Space?


In lieu of acting lessons he simply watched Office Space a dozen times. I was disappointed by his lack of flair.



betts4 said:


> Why not? I mean, it's his uncle. The one that set up all the kills in the jails. I was figuring it may be a right of passage thing. Or heck, Todd did it so calm and cool like - maybe it wasn't his first kill.


Killing the kid was a cowardly move which Todd later regretted. It makes him look weak, that he scares easily.



netringer said:


> I did not see that "confession" coming. I was really set up.
> 
> Like they say, now you can see how some seeming throw away details come into play for the accusation.


That was fantastic. All those little details, like the early ride-along, that can be independently verified.



jkeegan said:


> So good! I didn't see it coming at all.. Totally figured he was making a legit confession (which felt surprising but I bought it), and at the end of the dinner discussion I thought that was Walt almost giving up by handing over the disc. Holy sh*t. That was awesome.


I had the same thought at first, then "wait, we didn't see what he actually recorded..."


> 2) Wow does Todd look like Matt Damon


An albino Matt Damon, yes.



netringer said:


> There's a huge flaw in Walt's "confession." If Hank is the mastermind *why doesn't Hank have all the money?* Walt says that Hank forced him to pay the hospital bill. Why does _Hank need Walt's_ money?


Hank forced Walt to use Walt's money so the paper trail would lead back to Walt and Hank didn't have to launder the money himself, right then and there.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

netringer said:


> There's a huge flaw in Walt's "confession." If Hank is the mastermind *why doesn't Hank have all the money?* Walt says that Hank forced him to pay the hospital bill. Why does _Hank need Walt's_ money?


Walt had the gambling cover story. Hank did not. As a DEA agent, Hank would be under greater scrutiny regarding his financial situation, so it would make sense for all the money to be funneled through Walt with the gambling cover story.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

fmowry said:


> I guess because you didn't uncover anything in your in depth reading, nobody can come to another conclusion unless they spend hours in BB threads hypothesizing about future episodes?
> 
> I knew when Walt started taping the "confession" and they quickly cut away that it was certainly not going to be Walt actually coming clean on anything. Anyone who has watched the series should have realized that. Walt's always 5 steps ahead. Confessing would be him giving up. Not in his DNA. Especially with the cancer back.


I thought he was filming the confession as a "last resort" to keep Skyler and the kids (and the money) safe. To be used after his death, perhaps.


----------



## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

I think Jesse is gonna torch Walt's house in the opening scene next week. The house will not burn down as we already know from the first episode, but it will be damaged and uninhabitable. It may get repaired and inhabited before being vandalized. However:

1) The lottery ticket on the board next to the refrigerator will burn, and Jesse will have made Walt's cash money unrecoverable. Walt will be befuddled by the cancer meds and unable to recall the GPS coordinates.

2) Walt and family will be "on vacation" so to speak, paying cash anonymously in a Hotel, when some sort of attempt is made against Walt's family - maybe the Car Wash gets bombed, or one of their cars jacked. This will happen after Walt refuses to help Todd and his Aryan Brotherhood uncle re-start Meth production.

3) I think the M-60 machine gun will be used against the Aryan Brotherhood heavies. I think Walt's family - possibly including Hank and Marie - will be holed up in New Hampshire, possibly in Federal Witness Protection. A dying Walt will clean up the loose ends in Albuquerque as a final act of contrition, in the "Scarface" scene.

4) Numerous unpredictable twists and turns will be added to the above.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jgickler said:


> There are lots of ways you can get to Hank being a penny-less drug lord. It could easily be written off as a cash flow problem IMO. Either he was cash poor, maybe due to buying supplies, building a lab, or some other concocted situation where he needed cash, or maybe he had the cash, but had not laundered it yet, so he couldn't spend it. It did occur as a hole to me last night, but I don't think it is a big enough hole to save Hank, and it could easily be explained away.
> 
> Also, could someone refresh my memory. When Hank was shot, what was Walt's financial situation? He wasn't on his own at that point. Was he working for Gus in the laundry, or was it before that? Is it possible at the point where Hank was shot, Hank's ficticious meth business was in its infancy, and that could explain why he needed to rely on Walt, who maybe was more frugal with his money?


I think that was during Walt's initial stint working for Gus in the SuperLab when he was being paid $3 million for 3 months work. Later Walt renegotiated and got a $15 million/year salary, but we don't know how long he operated under that deal. Presumably, some of the rehab time and therefore rehab money came after the $15 million salary started.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

The first thing I thought of when Walt started the confession tape was the one he made in the very beginning/pilot episode.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Walt had the gambling cover story. Hank did not. As a DEA agent, Hank would be under greater scrutiny regarding his financial situation, so it would make sense for all the money to be funneled through Walt with the gambling cover story.


The gambling cover story was only ever told to Hank and Marie, wasn't it? So it's not like that cover story was something Walt could use to prevent people on the outside from questioning how Hank paid for his rehab.


----------



## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

What if Walt turns over the confession tape to someone at the DEA, and agrees to go into witness protection in return for testifying against Hank.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

fmowry said:


> The confession thing was simply a vehicle that we've seen coming from a mile away.
> 
> 
> astrohip said:
> ...


From your statement, "a vehicle that we've seen coming from a mile away", I thought you meant you've seen it coming for several episodes now. Or at least before this ep.

If you are saying once he started filming in *this week's episode*, and at that point you saw it coming from a mile away, then I can't take that away from you.

Nonetheless, simply a stunning episode. A tour de force. Each episode just gets better and better. I keep thinking they can't keep this up... and they do. :up:


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

sgsmith said:


> I'm kinda surprised that no one has commented on the tank full of methylene being towed back to New Mexico.


I did.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> I did.


But surely somebody else mentioned it earlier...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

possibly



It looked pretty full to me, too. At least, if not more, than 3/4 full. Todd and his crew can make a heck of a lot more meth.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I would like to point out that most of you pounced on me when I posted in the previous thread that it was clear (to me) that Declan had bought the tank of Methylamine and Todd didn't have it. Well, I think it's pretty clear now who had it (and who now has it back).


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

netringer said:


> I think they missed the mark a bit on this plot because it has so many threads.


I'm pretty surprised at anyone having trouble following it and all the discussion trying to explain what happened. I thought it couldn't be more crystal clear what happened.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> I would like to point out that most of you pounced on me when I posted in the previous thread that it was clear (to me) that Declan had bought the tank of Methylamine and Todd didn't have it. Well, I think it's pretty clear now who had it (and who now has it back).


You were wrong then and you're wrong now. Todd does have it.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> I would like to point out that most of you pounced on me when I posted in the previous thread that it was clear (to me) that Declan had bought the tank of Methylamine and Todd didn't have it. Well, I think it's pretty clear now who had it (and who now has it back).


I thought that was pretty clearly confirmed last week when Lydia went to Declan to complain about the drop in quality. The debate about who had the methylamine was back before we knew who was doing the cooking for Lydia's product she was selling to the Czechs. Once we found that out last week, there was no further question.


----------



## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

Regarding the hug: I caught a look on Walt's face that communicated to me he was considering snapping Jessie's neck.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Right, but it was clear to me from _last season_ when Walt sold the tank to declan for (I think) 15 million -- Mike got 5 million, and Walt and Jesse split the other 10 (when Walt give the full 5 million to Jesse in those black bags). Whatever the numbers were, the tank was sold to Declan, not left with Todd to cook on his own.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And to cook at a lousy 68%


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> Right, but it was clear to me from _last season_ when Walt sold the tank to declan for (I think) 15 million -- Mike got 5 million, and Walt and Jesse split the other 10 (when Walt give the full 5 million to Jesse in those black bags). Whatever the numbers were, the tank was sold to Declan, not left with Todd to cook on his own.


...which never happened......sorry.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

pmyers said:


> ...which never happened......sorry.


Assuming you're serious, if that "never happened" then why did we see the tank being towed back into New Mexico?

Because it was in Arizona, with Declan's crew.


----------



## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

netringer said:


> I think they missed the mark a bit on this plot because it has so many threads.
> 
> 
> The ricin cig disappears. - Huell took it for Walt.
> ...


So, what you're saying is that the packet in the jacket had the pellet with the poison, the Roomba with the ricin had a brew that's untrue?


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

The tank did not get sold to Declan when Walt made the deal. The deal was Walt would cook, Declan would distribute and they'd all get rich. Walt needed the chemical with him for cooking.

The deal that sent the chemical out of state is the one made off screen that we don't know about when Walt retired. Walt obviously made arrangements at his retirement and that's when the chemical would have changed hands.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I still don't agree. Then what was the deal in the desert with the 1-gallon free sample they gave Declan, and said "there's 999 more where that came from".


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

fmowry said:


> I knew when Walt started taping the "confession" and they quickly cut away that it was certainly not going to be Walt actually coming clean on anything. Anyone who has watched the series should have realized that. Walt's always 5 steps ahead. Confessing would be him giving up. Not in his DNA. Especially with the cancer back.


..but they did at least lay a plausible explanation for him doing that.. They had Walt tell Skyler that he would turn himself in if she wanted, as long as she kept the money and it wasn't all for nothing.



betts4 said:


> The first thing I thought of when Walt started the confession tape was the one he made in the very beginning/pilot episode.


Same here!! I paused and reminded my wife of that tape from the first episode.



jgickler said:


> What if Walt turns over the confession tape to someone at the DEA, and agrees to go into witness protection in return for testifying against Hank.


!!!


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Hank said:


> I still don't agree. Then what was the deal in the desert with the 1-gallon free sample they gave Declan, and said "there's 999 more where that came from".


Mike gave him that when it was just Mike and Jesse trying to make the deal to sell their 2/3 of the chemical. But Declan wanted all of it to get Blue Sky off the market, which is why Walt had to get involved.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> I still don't agree. Then what was the deal in the desert with the 1-gallon free sample they gave Declan, and said "there's 999 more where that came from".


I just skimmed through S5E08. That deal in the desert where Walt offered to sell the entire 1000 gallons must have happened prior to that, because it wasn't in that episode. But in that episode, it shows Walt and Todd doing all the cooks in the tented houses, it shows Lydia setting up the pipeline to the Czechs, and it shows the giant pile of cash in the storage unit. So whatever the deal in the desert was, it didn't happen, because Walt still had access to the methylamine up until Skyler showed him the money and he decided to retire.

We can probably assume that when Walt decided to retire, after having flooded the Southwest with his pure blue meth and making things more difficult for Declan's crew, Declan jumped at the chance to buy the tank when Walt offered it a second time.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> after having flooded the Southwest with his pure blue meth and making things more difficult for Declan's crew, Declan jumped at the chance to buy the tank when Walt offered it a second time.


Declan was distributing for Walt at that point, so Declan was not being put out by Walt cooking. Remember the whole "Say my name?" That's when Walt made the deal with Declan to be the cook.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Zevida said:


> The tank did not get sold to Declan when Walt made the deal. The deal was Walt would cook, Declan would distribute and they'd all get rich. Walt needed the chemical with him for cooking.
> 
> The deal that sent the chemical out of state is the one made off screen that we don't know about when Walt retired. Walt obviously made arrangements at his retirement and that's when the chemical would have changed hands.


Exactly...although for some reason, Hank just remembers that episode totally different than everybody else. I really suggest he goes back and watches that scene in the desert again.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> This has already been covered so well in this thread, it's hard to believe we have to describe it again, but there should be no "?"s in a list like that:
> 
> 
> Walt waits for Jesse to arrive, and convinces him that Gus (who has already killed kids) has just poisoned this kid with the Ricin. Walt has now convinced Jesse that Gus needs to die
> ...





BREAK HERE.

Jesse knows it wasn't "his" ricin that made the kid sick. 
As in Walt lied about the ricin but told the truth that it was Gus? I know. Just because Gus would kill a kid. Why this kid now? For why?



jkeegan said:


> [*]Jesse worries that he carelessly lost the cigarette with ricin and that some kid will smoke it and die
> [*]Walt creates fake ricin to ease his concerns. He comes over and helps him search, then sneaks it in the roomba. They find it.
> [*]Jesse beating himself up crying that he almost shot Walt over this.



So WHY does he still think that *Gus* poisoned the kid?

At that point Jesse was totally on Gus's team.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> No way Walt takes the ricin himself. It's a long slow death, with flu-like symptoms. A bullet to the brain is very quick. Jumping off of a bridge. Other science-based ideas.


Magnets!



fmowry said:


> I knew when Walt started taping the "confession" and they quickly cut away that it was certainly not going to be Walt actually coming clean on anything. Anyone who has watched the series should have realized that.


Like Betts noted, above, Walt already made a confession tape once before, in the pilot episode. So I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to entertain the idea of a second confession. Although there's a difference between Walter White confessing, and Heisenberg confessing. The former would, the latter never would. And Walter White is pretty much dead at this point, having been fully replaced by Heisenberg.

I do think that Walter White's confession tape is going to enter into things before all is said and done. Its current whereabouts are unknown, right?

Maybe Junior finds it and goes to Hank with it.



Robin said:


> An albino Matt Damon, yes.


I've seen him referred to as Meth Damon.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> I've seen him referred to as Meth Damon.


OK, that's pretty damn funny.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

As to "druglord" Hank not paying for his medical bills himself...

Didn't Hank think insurance covered it?

He was pretty pissed at Marie when she told him that WW had actually paid for it.

And surprised.

Now, the question is, did WW plan this avenue of saying it was all Hank back then, when he paid for Hank's bills in the first place.

-smak-


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

smak said:


> As to "druglord" Hank not paying for his medical bills himself...
> 
> Didn't Hank think insurance covered it?
> 
> ...


No - It was Skylar that made WW pay it.

He's not really much of a forward thinker if you look back. Most of the stuff he does is to fix/cover things he's screwed up in the first place.


----------



## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

The confession doesn't have to be air tight, or even close. Bob, Carol, Ted, and Alice all know it's not. Its purpose is to complicate things for Hank. The more Hank needs to explain about his involvement the more he is exposed to prosecution. Hank also needs to keep the pressure off of Marie, he does not want her in any sort of jeopardy. The confession accomplished all it was intended to.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Numb And Number2 said:


> The confession doesn't have to be air tight, or even close. Bob, Carol, Ted, and Alice all know it's not. Its purpose is to complicate things for Hank. The more Hank needs to explain about his involvement the more he is exposed to prosecution. Hank also needs to keep the pressure off of Marie, he does not want her in any sort of jeopardy. The confession accomplished all it was intended to.


Yes, the whole point of the "confession" is to buy time. Hank now knows he not only has to find evidence to support his allegations against Walt, but also will have to find evidence to refute the lies that Walt will tell if Hank tries to arrest him. So that just makes Hank's job harder and potentially gets Walt closer to his death from cancer without going to jail and without his family losing the nest egg he's built for them.


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Ted Beneke is a loose end. He knows where the money for the IRS came from.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Alan Sepinwall got enough confused tweets/comments about the Jesse epiphany that he provided a summary of the ricin cigarette timeline at the end of this week's recap:



Alan Sepiwall said:


> 1)In "End Times," to get Jesse back on his side in the war against Gus, Walt arranges for Huell to steal the cigarette pack with the ricin cigarette out of Jesse's pocket and replace it with a different pack. Saul calls Jesse to his office on shaky reasons, and Huell pats him down in a way that gets Jesse's attention. Walt doesn't use the ricin to poison Brock, but rather a lily of the valley plant that will have a similar but less dangerous effect on the boy.
> 
> 2)When Jesse hears that Brock has been poisoned, he realizes that the ricin cigarette is missing, then (correctly) puts two and two together that Huell stole it, on Walt's orders. He storms into Walt's house and threatens to kill him for poisoning Brock; Walt convinces Jesse that it was Gus, not him, who wanted to hurt the boy - specifically so Jesse would come to this conclusion and murder Walt for him - and that Tyrus must have lifted the cigarettes from Jesse's locker at the Super Lab. Jesse accepts that Mr. White would never hurt a child, whereas Gus has a history of hurting children, and lets go of the theory about Huell.
> 
> ...


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

That above summary is perfect. However - I can simplify this even further. The Ricin isn't important. What's important is that Jesse now has proof that Walt lied to and manipulated him. From there - ALL of his suspicions about ALL the situations where he felt he was "being worked" are confirmed. The final piece of the puzzle is now in place. One confirmation proves all the other suspicions. 

As for the Declan meth deal, folks are remembering that wrong. Someone up thread had it right. Jesse and Mike were going to sell 2/3 of the liquid. But Declan wanted it all so he didn't have to compete. Walt says how about I keep it all and you can distribute. You pay Mike and Jesse - I'll cook for you. Everyone is happy. 

Now - this season - Walt is done. Which means, at some point, he just handed over all the remaining liquid to Declan and bowed out. This happened off screen, obviously.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mostman said:


> ...The Ricin isn't important. What's important is that Jesse now has proof that Walt lied to and manipulated him. From there - ALL of his suspicions about ALL the situations where he felt he was "being worked" are confirmed. The final piece of the puzzle is now in place. One confirmation proves all the other suspicions....


Preach it....


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Won't get a chance to do a rewatch in one contiguous section, but here's my observation about the first 30 seconds:

The episode starts with a cigarette. Nice touch, given the last few scenes of the episode.


----------



## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

I would point out that Walter White murdered his way into control of Gus Fring's drug empire, after Gus murdered and replaced the entire Mexican drug cartel. Then WW expanded his empire into Europe, and took over the biggest market there, the Czech Republic. WW is literally profiting off the misery of the addicted, and swelling the ranks of the addicted with the purity and strength of his Meth.

Remember the 2 minutes in which WW murdered 10 men? WW is the most despicable character in the history of TV. He does in fact make Tony Soprano look like a piker. WW murders people wholesale, Tony Soprano did his murders retail, one at a time.

That we see WW evolve from the type of man we recognize and respect into this towering figure of evil, is the genius core plot of BB the series.

Five episodes remain. I believe that the scene with WW at his former home is the next to last scene. Here's my prediction for the end of the series:

1) WW kills all the remaining bad guys with the M-60 - almost certainly this would include both Lydia and all her Aryan Brotherhood thugs..

2) WW swallows the Ricin, turns himself in, and confesses and credits Hank with his arrest, saving Hank's career. Then he dies.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Gary McCoy said:


> I would point out that Walter White murdered his way into control of Gus Fring's drug empire, after Gus murdered and replaced the entire Mexican drug cartel. Then WW expanded his empire into Europe, and took over the biggest market there, the Czech Republic. WW is literally profiting off the misery of the addicted, and swelling the ranks of the addicted with the purity and strength of his Meth.
> 
> Remember the 2 minutes in which WW murdered 10 men? WW is the most despicable character in the history of TV. He does in fact make Tony Soprano look like a piker. WW murders people wholesale, Tony Soprano did his murders retail, one at a time.
> 
> That we see WW evolve from the type of man we recognize and respect into this towering figure of evil, is the genius core plot of BB the series.


I almost never agree with Gary.

I agree with Gary.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I noticed this episode included "Story Sync," which AMC has done with its other shows. This is the first time I recall it for Breaking Bad. Am I just spectacularly unobservant? I didn't use it, because I didn't want anything to distract me as I watched.

I did check out the free sample of the "Breaking Bad: Alchemy" iBook. It's pretty nice. I may get it.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

danterner said:


> Am I just spectacularly unobservant?


It's been going on for all eps this summer, for sure. I watch delayed so it's of no use for me (which is why they do it).


----------



## 702 (Feb 9, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> Solid episode. I miss the free wheelin Jessie of old though and only Sol for light relief Badger etc. MIA.
> 
> There was some pretty blatant and unsubtle foreshadowing in that opening scene. Not completely sure what the point of that was outside of directly coming back later.


Paper towels aren't flushable. Toilet clogs, plummer finds blood soaked paper towel, calls cops.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

EscapeGoat said:


> So, what you're saying is that the packet in the jacket had the pellet with the poison, the Roomba with the ricin had a brew that's untrue?


:up::up: Beautiful! BTW, "The Court Jester" is one of my top favorite movies, mostly due to that bit about "the pellet with the poison"! Kudos to you.



danterner said:


> ... Although there's a difference between Walter White confessing, and Heisenberg confessing. The former would, the latter never would. And *Walter White is pretty much dead at this point, having been fully replaced by Heisenberg.*


 Brilliant!



danterner said:


> ... I've seen him referred to as Meth Damon.


LOL!


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

702 said:


> Paper towels aren't flushable. Toilet clogs, plummer finds blood soaked paper towel, calls cops.


I think this is another example of how VG foreshadows very specific events, making all 4 million of us wonder exactly how it will play out, and then he moves on. It creates a tense razor's edge to this show that creates a unique BB aura, a sense of foreboding.

Because if you think about it, a bloody towel in a toilet is so non-eventful, there is no way a plumber would think twice. Plus it would simply be plungered away. But at the time, as we're watching it, we remained glued to the screen, waiting to see the repercussions unfold from this simple act.

It really is the best thing on TV right now.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

astrohip said:


> I think this is another example of how VG foreshadows very specific events, making all 4 million of us wonder exactly how it will play out, and then he moves on. It creates a tense razor's edge to this show that creates a unique BB aura, a sense of foreboding.


It may also be another example of people reading too much into things (not that WE'D do that!)...I've flushed paper towels down the toilet any number of times, and never clogged it.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

And imagine a plumber calling the cops "hey, I found a bloody paper towel in a toilet."


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> And imagine a plumber calling the cops "hey, I found a bloody paper towel in a toilet."


Or even lamer, "I found a paper towel with a small red spot in a public toilet!"


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

I think the more important thing isn't the flushed paper towel, but that he has blood on his boot. He almost certainly didn't wipe all of it away.


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I've flushed paper towels down the toilet any number of times, and never clogged it.


This. When you're out of toilet paper...


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

nataylor said:


> I think the more important thing isn't the flushed paper towel, but that he has blood on his boot. He almost certainly didn't wipe all of it away.


Precisely. :up:


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

For anyone still having questions about Jesse's revelation, here's the best overview I have yet seen.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

That does a good job of explaining what really happened - but I'm still stuck on Jesse putting it all together from the stuff /he/ knows.


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

No spoilers here, but I loved Sam L Jackson's idea in Talking Bad.

He was filming near where the set for BB was - specifically the chicken restaurant, so he wanted to just walk in and buy lunch in the background of a scene! Nothing else, just a cameo of him buying a chicken dinner.

Wonderful.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MonsterJoe said:


> That does a good job of explaining what really happened - but I'm still stuck on Jesse putting it all together from the stuff /he/ knows.


This.

I mean, it makes sense because WE all know what happened. I can't see him making that leap.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay I skimmed the last couple of pages so I could say this so forgive me if it's already been stated. On the question of the money for Hank's medical bills. I see it this way. Walt/Skyler gave Marie cash. Marie deposited cash into their checking. Received bills from hospital/insurance after they paid what was covered. Marie then wrote a check to the hospital/insurance for the remainder. So the only paper trail here is the one showing Hank's bank account randomly loaded with cash deposits. Walt is in the clear. This was the nail in the coffin and I personally thought that's exactly how they made it seem and why Hank told Marie she just killed him with that act.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It won't happen but I think Hank still should tell his boss everything he knows. Take the mother of all lie detector tests, sodium pentathol, hypnosis, whatever... It's not court admissible but that's not the point. The point is to convince his boss and everybody else at the DEA that he's telling the truth. He missed the boat about Walt for a year but it wasn't because he was covering anything up. It just never dawned on him that his brother in law was Heisenberg.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> It won't happen but I think Hank still should tell his boss everything he knows. Take the mother of all lie detector tests, sodium pentathol, hypnosis, whatever... It's not court admissible but that's not the point. The point is to convince his boss and everybody else at the DEA that he's telling the truth. He missed the boat about Walt for a year but it wasn't because he was covering anything up. It just never dawned on him that his brother in law was Heisenberg.


He should, but I think it would be out of character. If he were going to do that, he would have done it earlier. But as he keeps getting in deeper and deeper, it is harder and harder for him to do. From the moment he realized the truth, he WAS covering everything up, even if he didn't see it that way. In his mind, I think the burden of proof needed to compensate for his own sins just keeps growing the more that happens.

I don't know if he finally just gives up and confesses all, or if it comes out some other way and he doesn't even get the grace of having confessed himself. Given how nuts-obsessive all this has driven him, I suspect the latter.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Hank is screwed either way. From the very first season when they learned about the stuff missing from the Chemistry closet, he's been incompetent in the eyes of anyone who would be judging him.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Nope on that point (at least the "always"). After they found the salt-ricin-substitute in the Roomba and Walt went to the bathroom to flush it, Jesse went into tears, beating himself up for almost having shot Mr. White. At that point there's no question that Jesse believed Walt.


Good point. I had forgotten about that. I still think that deep down there was an incongruity in his mind about the fact that Brock had been poisoned at the same time as he had lost the ricin. But at that point in time, he was definitely not suspicious of Walt having found the ricin.



jkeegan said:


> I think that the reason that they had the discussion at the table at all (instead of just handing them the disc) was to see if there was any last chance of a scenario in which they didn't have to hand them the disc.. (not a "hey we didn't do it", but a "hey you can't prove anything that you're claiming we did" kind of thing). I think Walt was also acting as if every discussion with Hank was recorded, just to be safe. Skyler's comment isn't as bad if they eventually give them the disc, but before that, there was a microscopic chance that they didn't have to do that (which Walt probably would have preferred).


Oh yeah, I completely agree with that. My point was only that I don't think Walt cared anymore about trying to play innocent for Hank and Marie, so I don't think he had a problem with Skyler's choice of words.



fmowry said:


> Confessing would be him giving up. Not in his DNA. Especially with the cancer back.


It is in his DNA if it means being able to keep the money safe for his family, particularly because his cancer is back. He told Skyler in the previous episode that he was willing to turn himself in if it meant the family got the money. I suppose it's possible that he was playing her, but I think there is still enough Walt left in him to honestly care for his family.

When he handed Hank the disc, I thought he was actually going to turn himself in, and the rest of the story would involve him trying to protect his money, while his ex-coworkers tried to get to his family to prevent him from talking. Then Hank, who would have been let go from the DEA by then, would end up having to protect them.



jgickler said:


> Also, could someone refresh my memory. When Hank was shot, what was Walt's financial situation? He wasn't on his own at that point. Was he working for Gus in the laundry, or was it before that? Is it possible at the point where Hank was shot, Hank's ficticious meth business was in its infancy, and that could explain why he needed to rely on Walt, who maybe was more frugal with his money?


Walt had just barely started working for Gus by that point, so in Walt's alternate reality, Hank would not have had his empire back then. Gus was the man in control at the time, which was why Hank eventually needed to have him killed so he could take over.

And even if Hank did have plenty of money, he was abusive of Walt, so forcing him to pay for the treatment was just one more way of showing him who was in control. And, as JETarpon pointed out, Hank's accounts would have been under greater scrutiny than Walt's.



netringer said:


> So WHY does he still think that *Gus* poisoned the kid?
> 
> At that point Jesse was totally on Gus's team.


He didn't. As soon as he found out Brock was poisoned with Lily of the Valley, he knew it wasn't Gus. But by that point he wasn't on Gus' team, and not just because Gus was dead. As he told Walt at the end of season 4, "He still had to die, right?"


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> Hank is screwed either way. From the very first season when they learned about the stuff missing from the Chemistry closet, he's been incompetent in the eyes of anyone who would be judging him.


And that's the issue, here. Eventually Hank would be able to prove his innocence, but he would be out of the DEA. Hank feels so betrayed by Walt and incompetent for Walt being able to do everything right under his nose that he wants to be the one to bring him to justice to at least give himself that absolution. And part of him is probably also worried that if he isn't the one in charge of investigating Walt, then Walt will get away.

Going to the DEA would mean giving up control, and Hank is not ready to do that yet.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> And that's the issue, here. Eventually Hank would be able to prove his innocence, but he would be out of the DEA. Hank feels so betrayed by Walt and incompetent for Walt being able to do everything right under his nose that he wants to be the one to bring him to justice to at least give himself that absolution. And part of him is probably also worried that if he isn't the one in charge of investigating Walt, then Walt will get away.
> 
> Going to the DEA would mean giving up control, and Hank is not ready to do that yet.


Right - and he never talks about going to jail - he talks about his career being over.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

TonyTheTiger said:


> No spoilers here, but I loved Sam L Jackson's idea in Talking Bad.
> 
> He was filming near where the set for BB was - specifically the chicken restaurant, so he wanted to just walk in and buy lunch in the background of a scene! Nothing else, just a cameo of him buying a chicken dinner.
> 
> Wonderful.


But he never did that, he just wanted to.

Who wouldn't?????


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> No spoilers here, but I loved Sam L Jackson's idea in Talking Bad.
> 
> He was filming near where the set for BB was - specifically the chicken restaurant, so he wanted to just walk in and buy lunch in the background of a scene! Nothing else, just a cameo of him buying a chicken dinner.
> 
> Wonderful.


I laughed when I heard him say that. Would have been awesome.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> I laughed when I heard him say that. Would have been awesome.


Then again, Samuel L. Jackson is made of awesome.

He's the guy who, when he saw that Marvel had used his face for their Ultimate Nick Fury comic book character, didn't say "I'm gonna SUE your @$$"; he said "You better cast me in the movie!"

And the reason he knew they had used his face was because he was reading the comics in the first place.


----------



## AeneaGames (May 2, 2009)

nataylor said:


> I think the more important thing isn't the flushed paper towel, but that he has blood on his boot. He almost certainly didn't wipe all of it away.


What I found more important was that Todd was using real names "Mr. White this and Mr. White that and then came Jesse......"

When any of those guys are caught for whatever reason, and yes, the blood on the shoe might be part of that, they will probably flip on Walt...


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> Right - and he never talks about going to jail - he talks about his career being over.


They did - that's what Marie brought up at the end of the second episode and why Hank was going to go tell them everything. Marie said something like "but if you don't tell and they find out that you knew..." and the ... is that then he could be treated like an accomplice. That's why she was so unhappy when he said that he didn't tell (after getting a lead with Jesse).


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Do we know that Walt's cancer story is true? Other than he told Walt Jr.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

AeneaGames said:


> What I found more important was that Todd was using real names "Mr. White this and Mr. White that and then came Jesse......"...


Which is Ironic because the reason he killed the kid is because "nobody can ever know that the train was ropped" and now he is the one freely telling people.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

netringer said:


> Do we know that Walt's cancer story is true? Other than he told Walt Jr.


Well we have seen him getting Chemo and getting sick.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Which is Ironic because the reason he killed the kid is because "nobody can ever know that the train was ropped" and now he is the one freely telling people.


He's talking about the train robbery to a couple of guys that he trusts completely. They are family. He is talking to a couple guys that got 10 prisoners killed in 2 minutes. He is talking to two guys that helped get rid of the Declan gang.

He also has not really mentioned killing the kid to them.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Zevida said:


> They did - that's what Marie brought up at the end of the second episode and why Hank was going to go tell them everything. Marie said something like "but if you don't tell and they find out that you knew..." and the ... is that then he could be treated like an accomplice. That's why she was so unhappy when he said that he didn't tell (after getting a lead with Jesse).


I don't recall Hank ever talking about going to jail (maybe he did?). I remember Marie doing it, but as far as I know, Hank is concerned about his career, his pride, his reputation, and bringing a drug kingpin to justice.

He's a DEA ASAC - I'm sure he doesn't need Marie explaining the law to him.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Most of the reviews and the podcast made it pretty clear that Todd purposely left out the killing the kid part to make himself sound like Billy The Kid.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Well we have seen him getting Chemo and getting sick.


Some people will go to amazing lengths to back up a cover story!


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

betts4 said:


> He's talking about the train robbery to a couple of guys that he trusts completely. They are family. He is talking to a couple guys that got 10 prisoners killed in 2 minutes. He is talking to two guys that helped get rid of the Declan gang.
> 
> He also has not really mentioned killing the kid to them.


Understood, but the irony still holds true (to me).


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

The way I interpreted that diner scene was that they were out of the methylene and need to get more. So Todd and his uncle are driving back into New Mexico with the empty trailer they showed to ask/force Walt to help them steal more from a train. Which explains why Todd was telling the story. 

What was the name of that Mexican Restaurant they were in? it looked a lot like Sadie's Kitchen, which is where I go whenever I go to ABQ.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

netringer said:


> Do we know that Walt's cancer story is true? Other than he told Walt Jr.


We never saw a doctor tell him he had cancer. But we saw Walt punch out a paper towel dispenser again. And we have seen him doing chemotherapy again.

So, yes, the cancer story is true.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DeDondeEs said:


> The way I interpreted that diner scene was that they were out of the methylene and need to get more. So Todd and his uncle are driving back into New Mexico with the empty trailer they showed to ask/force Walt to help them steal more from a train. Which explains why Todd was telling the story.
> 
> What was the name of that Mexican Restaurant they were in? it looked a lot like Sadie's Kitchen, which is where I go whenever I go to ABQ.


The trailer tank they were driving back into New Mexico was NOT empty. It had a lot of liquid in it. At least 3/4 full.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> I don't recall Hank ever talking about going to jail (maybe he did?). I remember Marie doing it, but as far as I know, Hank is concerned about his career, his pride, his reputation, and bringing a drug kingpin to justice.
> 
> He's a DEA ASAC - I'm sure he doesn't need Marie explaining the law to him.


Well, Marie brought it up and Hank agreed that's why he did need to go into the office and tell them everything. But no, we didn't explicitly hear Hank say "if I don't tell I will go to jail."


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Zevida said:


> Well, Marie brought it up and Hank agreed that's why he did need to go into the office and tell them everything. But no, we didn't explicitly hear Hank say "if I don't tell I will go to jail."


But he didn't do that - right? He went into the office and didn't tell anybody anything.

He's more worried about his career than he is about being arrested...which is my point.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MonsterJoe said:


> But he didn't do that - right? He went into the office and didn't tell anybody anything.
> ...


More than that. When Gomie wanted to know why they had to stake out Saul's office to watch for Jesse, Hank told him he could stop watching.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Hank was going to tell. Hank was asking Gomie to setup a meeting where he was planning to lay it all out, but Gomie told Hank about Jessee's philanthropic money drive. Hank saw his chance to question Jessee and get someone to go on the record about Walt's doings, however Jesse told him to &#8220;Eat me.&#8221; Then the video confession happened.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DeDondeEs said:


> The way I interpreted that diner scene was that they were out of the methylene and need to get more. So Todd and his uncle are driving back into New Mexico with the empty trailer they showed to ask/force Walt to help them steal more from a train. Which explains why Todd was telling the story.
> 
> What was the name of that Mexican Restaurant they were in? it looked a lot like Sadie's Kitchen, which is where I go whenever I go to ABQ.


According to the podcast, the restaurant was Gardunio's (sp?)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DeDondeEs said:


> What was the name of that Mexican Restaurant they were in? it looked a lot like Sadie's Kitchen, which is where I go whenever I go to ABQ.


On this week's podcast, they said it was a local restaurant in ABQ called Garduño's. They said they originally wanted to use a national chain, just so that viewers could see it was a place they were familiar with and that would heighten the tension of the scene, but then they found that location and decided it was perfect. And because most of the national chains have become too generic.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

We have a Gardunos in Chandler. Great place and I believe it is a chain.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Might as well post this here. I always remember when Breaking Bad started thinking that Jessie looked familiar and was amazed to learn he was Scott from Big Love. They ran parallel for a while. Such a difference.

Not the best pic but the only one I could find


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

pmyers said:


> We have a Gardunos in Chandler. Great place and I believe it is a chain.


Yeah we have a couple here in Las Vegas, but they didn't look like the inside of the one in ABQ.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Better one though he looks more like Jesse here.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Aaron Paul was on Leno a week or so ago and Leno showed a clip of one of Aaron's first appearances, on the old 90210. Aaron was playing a high school student playing Romeo in a play. Man was he bad.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> We never saw a doctor tell him he had cancer. But we saw Walt punch out a paper towel dispenser again. And we have seen him doing chemotherapy again.
> 
> So, yes, the cancer story is true.


I agree he does have cancer again, but you got a detail wrong there.

He didn't punch the paper towel dispenser again. He went in for an appointment, presumably found out he had cancer again, went in the bathroom, and on the way out paused and stared at something with a contemplative look for several seconds. Only then did we see that what he was looking at was the paper towel dispenser that he had punched over a year ago (still broken). I thought that was a poignant moment where we see how differently he's handling the news of cancer now from a year ago.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Aaron Paul was on Leno a week or so ago and Leno showed a clip of one of Aaron's first appearances, on the old 90210. Aaron was playing a high school student playing Romeo in a play. Man was he bad.


Was it was Aaron Paul that was bad or was he just playing a kid that sucked as an actor in a high school play?

(I did see the clip on Leno)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Was it was Aaron Paul that was bad or was he just playing a kid that sucked as an actor in a high school play?
> 
> (I did see the clip on Leno)


Not sure. Maybe the kid was supposed to be bad. But Aaron seemed very embarrassed by it and said it was awful, so you'd think if he was intentionally playing a kid that was supposed to be a bad actor, he would have said that.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> I agree he does have cancer again, but you got a detail wrong there.
> 
> He didn't punch the paper towel dispenser again. He went in for an appointment, presumably found out he had cancer again, went in the bathroom, and on the way out paused and stared at something with a contemplative look for several seconds. Only then did we see that what he was looking at was the paper towel dispenser that he had punched over a year ago (still broken). I thought that was a poignant moment where we see how differently he's handling the news of cancer now from a year ago.


While that maybe true, I believe that's pure conjecture on your part.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Not sure. Maybe the kid was supposed to be bad. But Aaron seemed very embarrassed by it and said it was awful, so you'd think if he was intentionally playing a kid that was supposed to be a bad actor, he would have said that.


.....a little from column 'a'...........a little from column 'b'.....perhaps


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

pmyers said:


> While that maybe true, I believe that's pure conjecture on your part.


*jkeegan*'s thoughts are what I took from that scene as well.


----------



## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

pmyers said:


> While that maybe true, I believe that's pure conjecture on your part.


Didn't he punch the towel dispenser when he learned that his cancer had entered remission? The very first time he learned he had cancer he was distant and aloof with the doctor, and didn't lash out at all.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

pmyers said:


> While that maybe true, I believe that's pure conjecture on your part.


Nope, I got exactly what he (keegan) got out of it.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Carlucci said:


> Didn't he punch the towel dispenser when he learned that his cancer had entered remission? The very first time he learned he had cancer he was distant and aloof with the doctor, and didn't lash out at all.


Actually I can't remember which time it was, I just remember him doing it and coming home with the knuckles messed up. Then this last time he cleaned up in the bathroom and walking out he looked sideways at the dented towel dispenser. We knew it was from dents he put in it.


----------



## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

I'm right, he never punched the dispenser when he learned he had cancer, either time. He only punched it when he learned the cancer had disappeared, so it wasn't meant to be a juxtaposition of the way he handled the news each time, but instead it was meant to show, in my mind, that he was pissed that he was going to beat the cancer after having done all that bad stuff to leave some money behind for his family.

It's meant to show his descent, and is a pivotal moment in his "Breaking Bad".

See here. He is already clean-shaved when he is beating the dispenser.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

AeneaGames said:


> What I found more important was that Todd was using real names "Mr. White this and Mr. White that and then came Jesse......"





betts4 said:


> He's talking about the train robbery to a couple of guys that he trusts completely. They are family. He is talking to a couple guys that got 10 prisoners killed in 2 minutes. He is talking to two guys that helped get rid of the Declan gang.
> 
> He also has not really mentioned killing the kid to them.


BUT....I thought that was outrageous given they were in a restaurant. My wife can hear restaurant conversations nearly 20 feet away; she's amazing....


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> BUT....I thought that was outrageous given they were in a restaurant. My wife can hear restaurant conversations nearly 20 feet away; she's amazing....


But this is on television, where if two people want to have a private conversation they can take a few steps away from other people and speak in a normal tone of voice.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> My wife can hear restaurant conversations nearly 20 feet away; she's amazing....


Does she often hear people talking about sweeping together?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> Does she often hear people talking about sweeping together?


props Hank...props!


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> He missed the boat about Walt for a year but it wasn't because he was covering anything up. It just never dawned on him that his brother in law was Heisenberg.


Also because of their relationship, he trusted Walt with all sorts of information and access that Walt was actively using to sabotage the investigation -- that might have had _something_ to do with it...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dean Norris spoils the ending of Breaking Bad:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/636264ec55/dean-norris-spoils-breaking-bad?rel=player


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But this is on television, where if two people want to have a private conversation they can take a few steps away from other people and speak in a normal tone of voice.


Yah, I thought Saul was about 4 feet away from Walt & Jessie's "private" conversation'

-smak-


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I almost never agree with Gary.
> 
> I agree with Gary.


Does anyone disagree with what he said?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Dean Norris spoils the ending of Breaking Bad:
> 
> http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/636264ec55/dean-norris-spoils-breaking-bad?rel=player


Better than Under the Dome.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He should, but I think it would be out of character. If he were going to do that, he would have done it earlier. But as he keeps getting in deeper and deeper, it is harder and harder for him to do. From the moment he realized the truth, he WAS covering everything up, even if he didn't see it that way. In his mind, I think the burden of proof needed to compensate for his own sins just keeps growing the more that happens.
> 
> I don't know if he finally just gives up and confesses all, or if it comes out some other way and he doesn't even get the grace of having confessed himself. Given how nuts-obsessive all this has driven him, I suspect the latter.


Yes, Hank still thinks there's a chance he can get a confession from Walt. Or get enough evidence to nail him. I think Hank is holding out and won't be telling anyone at work.

Now will Marie? Hmmm... she might go behind his back. Probably not though.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> Does anyone disagree with what he said?


Of course. Absolutely.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

danterner said:


> Better than Under the Dome.


When Walt gave his confession about Hank being Heisenberg, it made me think of Big Jim in Under the Dome. Maybe Walt watches that show.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Of course. Absolutely.


Makes sense.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

danterner said:


> Better than Under the Dome.


Whoever wrote Marie's text in that video is a writer on Under the Dome. For reals!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> Does anyone disagree with what he said?


I usually disagree with everyone....


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Does anyone disagree with what he said?


No. If you exclude Larry the serial killer from Three's Company.


----------



## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

photoshopgrl said:


> Okay I skimmed the last couple of pages so I could say this so forgive me if it's already been stated. On the question of the money for Hank's medical bills. I see it this way. Walt/Skyler gave Marie cash. Marie deposited cash into their checking. Received bills from hospital/insurance after they paid what was covered. Marie then wrote a check to the hospital/insurance for the remainder. So the only paper trail here is the one showing Hank's bank account randomly loaded with cash deposits. Walt is in the clear. This was the nail in the coffin and I personally thought that's exactly how they made it seem and why Hank told Marie she just killed him with that act.


..and if I may expand on your thoughts; how will Hank's superiors see the following after viewing the 'confession' dvd?

.killing off the Salamanca (sp?) character while on the trail of Walter
.planting a GPS device (non regulation) on Gus' vehicle
.beating the crap out of Jessie
.being one of the few cops NOT hurt when Tortuga's(sp?) head was on the back of the turtle.
.not wanting the many promotions offered and wanting to stay local
.almost killed by the cartel
.in the vicinity of the RV when it was last seen

there are probably more instances I'm missing.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

> .planting a GPS device (non regulation) on Gus' vehicle


Did anyone else know about that besides Walt and Hank (and GUS, R.I.P)? I don't recall that being on the confession video.



> .being one of the few cops hurt when Tortuga's(sp?) head was on the back of the turtle.


I thought he was one of the few cops *not* hurt by the bomb? It just freaked him out enough to return to ABQ DEA.

I've been wrong before..


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hank said:


> I thought he was one of the few cops *not* hurt by the bomb? It just freaked him out enough to return to ABQ DEA.
> 
> I've been wrong before..


I thought it was just a typo. He was one of the few (or only) not hurt.


----------



## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Hank said:


> Did anyone else know about that besides Walt and Hank (and GUS, R.I.P)? I don't recall that being on the confession video.
> 
> I thought he was one of the few cops *not* hurt by the bomb? It just freaked him out enough to return to ABQ DEA.
> 
> I've been wrong before..


Meant NOT hurt.
You are right about the GPS but if a little investigation (buying from Skymall) may prove to be in Walt's favor. Again all suppositions.

...and someone else pointed out in a prior thread, there is a similarity (physical) between Walt and Hank. Add facial hair and some sunglasses........


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

NJ_HB said:


> Meant NOT hurt.
> You are right about the GPS but if a little investigation (buying from Skymall) may prove to be in Walt's favor. Again all suppositions.
> 
> ...and someone else pointed out in a prior thread, there is a similarity (physical) between Walt and Hank. Add facial hair and some sunglasses........


As seen in the Funny Or Die video. I thought he did a passable Vince Gilligan, too.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

NJ_HB said:


> ..and if I may expand on your thoughts; how will Hank's superiors see the following after viewing the 'confession' dvd?
> 
> .killing off the Salamanca (sp?) character while on the trail of Walter
> .planting a GPS device (non regulation) on Gus' vehicle
> ...


Yes, there are so many things that could point right to Hank in all this. Walt knew that. Hank knows it too. He knows he's been bested. Cannot wait to see how this plays out now.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Yes, there are so many things that could point right to Hank in all this. Walt knew that. Hank knows it too. He knows he's been bested. Cannot wait to see how this plays out now.


Hank does not tell superiors, I'd bet my methylamine.


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> Hank does not tell superiors, I'd bet my methylamine.


I can see Marie dropping an anonymous tip (without Hank's knowledge) on Walt.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Pralix said:


> I can see Marie dropping an anonymous tip (without Hank's knowledge) on Walt.


But that would just accomplish exactly what she is afraid of--- that the DEA finds out before Hank goes in and tells it all. Hank would be toast.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> Better one though he looks more like Jesse here.


Lots of early Aaron Paul videos at this link, including his first job....a Corn Pops commercial.

http://www.celebuzz.com/2013-08-27/here-are-aaron-pauls-most-endearing-moments-caught-on-film/


----------



## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

Pralix said:


> I can see Marie dropping an anonymous tip (without Hank's knowledge) on Walt.


SWAT team kicks in a door, Walt Jr. raises a crutch...


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Hank said:


> But that would just accomplish exactly what she is afraid of--- that the DEA finds out before Hank goes in and tells it all. Hank would be toast.


Marie is fixated on getting custody of Walt's kids. I'm not sure that she can see the big picture with Hank.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Numb And Number2 said:


> SWAT team kicks in a door, Walt Jr. raises a crutch...


Bullets fly, the room is dripping with Aunt Jemima Butter Rich Syrup...


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JohnB1000 said:


> Better one though he looks more like Jesse here.


I was searching pics and found a couple of him with longish hair. Interesting. I also watching a movie called Last House on the Left and he was a bad dude in that. Ironically he got his face beat up in that movie and looked more like Jesse then.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I was searching pics and found a couple of him with longish hair. Interesting. I also watching a movie called Last House on the Left and he was a bad dude in that. Ironically he got his face beat up in that movie and looked more like Jesse then.


I had just seen him as the smarmy Mormon guy in Big Love when I watched him in the Breaking Bad pilot, and my first reaction was "This guy? C'mon." But he won me over pretty quickly. The different roles just proves what a great actor he is.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

My rewatch is all Slaughterhouse Five style - I'm watching a few scenes here and there out of order.

Just saw the desert scene again.

1) Didn't notice Saul'a license plate before.. LWYRUP. 

2) While I agree with Jessee that Walt was obviously acting in Walt's best interest at the beginning of that conversation, I gotta disagree with whoever said that they thought a look of Walt's indicated that he was considering snapping Jesse's neck. Absolutely no way. Rewatch the scene.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> ....1) Didn't notice Saul'a license plate before.. LWYRUP.


Yeah, and I think we've seen that before if I'm not mistaken...



jkeegan said:


> ....2) While I agree with Jessee that Walt was obviously acting in Walt's best interest at the beginning of that conversation, I gotta disagree with whoever said that they thought a look of Walt's indicated that he was considering snapping Jesse's neck. Absolutely no way. Rewatch the scene...


And I agree with this...when the hug first began, I wondered, but as it continued to unfold, it was VERY apparent that was NOT the case.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> And I agree with this...when the hug first began, I wondered, but as it continued to unfold, it was VERY apparent that was NOT the case.


Yes. On the other hand, there's not much doubt in my mind that there was not an ounce of sincerity on Walt's part...he was straight-out trying to manipulate Jesse. It wasn't sinister, it was just awkward...and as I suggested earlier, Walt just ain't the hugging type. He isn't as good at it as he would have needed to be to really sell it.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Agreed. No malice, all manipulation.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes. On the other hand, there's not much doubt in my mind that there was not an ounce of sincerity on Walt's part...he was straight-out trying to manipulate Jesse. It wasn't sinister, it was just awkward...and as I suggested earlier, Walt just ain't the hugging type. He isn't as good at it as he would have needed to be to really sell it.


It really is interesting how some people can get entirely opposite opinions of what's going on than others, watching the same scenes. 

Jesse is like a son to Walt. Though that's part of the problem... son vs. partner. Walt's never been good at showing his emotions to anyone.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree. Jesse is family to him. He wouldn't anymore kill him than he's willing to do Hank. That isn't saying he's not willing to manipulate and ruin their lives to keep himself afloat.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting discussion about that scene on this week's podcast. Aaron Paul said they filmed it several different ways: one with Jesse fighting to get away from Walt the whole time, one with Jesse not fighting but clearly realizing that Walt is manipulating him, one where Jesse just breaks down and sobs, etc. Aaron actually didn't even know which one they ultimately used in the final cut until he was doing the podcast, which is hosted by the show's editor. 

So that tells me that in the script, there wasn't a clear description of what the emotions were supposed to be for that scene, and they just decided to try several different ways and see what worked the best.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I liked their call.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Jesse is like a son to Walt.


And look at how he treated his son in this episode.

I do agree that Walt truly cares for Jesse, just like he meant everything he said to Walt Jr. But his interactions with them were motivated more by convenience than concern.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> I liked their call.


I didn't. I think it would have been much more powerful had Jesse hugged him back. Jesse falling for it one last time.

His anger at realizing the ricin ruse would have been that much more powerful (even if the ruse happened long before they hugged). But what we feel now for Jesse would have been much more heartbreaking.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

While we anxiously await the next episode, let's reflect back on the relationship between "Seinfeld" and "*Br*eaking *Ba*d" ...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6FbQyYloRY[/media]


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I agree. Jesse is family to him. He wouldn't anymore kill him than he's willing to do Hank. That isn't saying he's not willing to manipulate and ruin their lives to keep himself afloat.


I disagree. I think Walt is willing and able to kill both Hank and Jesse. Walt is overwhelmingly driven by his sense of self preservation. He will do anything it takes to stay on top and stay alive. Mass murder. Poisoning a child. Lying to everyone about everything.

He is not at the point where he will kill family but only because he thinks he can control Jesse and that he is smarter than Hank. He still feels like he's in control and that he can outwit his opponent. I have no doubt if Jesse had not been interested in the relocation package, then he would have had a more permanent trip to Belize.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Which makes what happens next interesting (now that Jesse is staying, and not at all aligned with Walt)...


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I don't think the comparison can be extended out too far without breaking, but I heard an interesting observation that Breaking Bad is analogous to Hamlet, with Jesse as Hamlet, Walt as King Claudius, and Skinny Pete and Badger as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and Skylar as Gertrude (who is poisoned and dies - wonder if Skylar has some ricin in her future). I could see Saul as Polonius, too. It kind of works, if you squint and ignore all the places where it doesn't.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

IIRC, Hamlet, Laertes, Ophelia, Polonius, Claudius, and Gertrude, and even Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, all die. Everyone dies! 

BTW, you forgot to cast Laertes and Ophelia (and Horatio). Ophelia is obvious. I might have made Jesse Laertes and Hank Hamlet, but none of them fit very well. As you implied, the whole thing is rather forced. At least whoever you cast as Horatio gets to live.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

To everyone mentioning that Walt poisoned a kid... ..while technically true (since he gave the kid Lillies of the Valley), Walt did at least opt for the version that wouldn't kill the kid. If he was pure evil at that point it would have been easier to use the ricin (he already had it available to him, and could have given it to the kid a few days later than he did with the Lillies of the Valley).


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

john4200 said:


> IIRC, Hamlet, Laertes, Ophelia, Polonius, Claudius, and Gertrude, and even Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, all die. Everyone dies!


 Whoa ... major SPOILER ALERT there!!!


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> Whoa ... major SPOILER ALERT there!!!


I believe the statute of limitations has run out on that one.


----------



## jasrub (May 9, 2008)

john4200 said:


> I believe the statute of limitations has run out on that one.


KRAMER: Anyway, it's been two years. I mean isn't there like statue of limitations on that?

JERRY: Statute.

KRAMER: What?

JERRY: Statute of limitations. It's not a statue.

KRAMER: No, it's statue.

JERRY: Fine, it's a sculpture of limitations.

KRAMER: Wait a minute, Just wait a minute...Elaine, Elaine! Now you're smart, is it statue or statute of limitations?

ELAINE: Statute.

KRAMER: Oh, I really think you're wrong


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> I had just seen him as the smarmy Mormon guy in Big Love when I watched him in the Breaking Bad pilot, and my first reaction was "This guy? C'mon." But he won me over pretty quickly. The different roles just proves what a great actor he is.


Jesse Pinkman...come on down!






edit - how the heck do you add a YT embed link?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Like this 




It's funny how Aaron Paul's personality is way more like Jesse than the guy he played in Big Love yet most of us who watched Big Love initially has an adjustment period to him in Breaking Bad.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

because he's a meth cook IRL


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

I watched "Big Love" and "Breaking Bad" at the same time and for some time had no idea that Aaron Paul was in both shows-THAT is how great an actor he is!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Ok, while we're at it, looks like Heisenberg was once a coffee addict.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo_P2QDXrwI[/media]


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> Like this
> 
> It's funny how Aaron Paul's personality is way more like Jesse than the guy he played in Big Love yet most of us who watched Big Love initially has an adjustment period to him in Breaking Bad.


thanks! still don't know how to do it


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

markymark_ctown said:


> thanks! still don't know how to do it


I know 

It's really hard to explain because the forum parses links when you use them as example.

Take your link (I added a space to make it not parse)

https: 




The video link is what I highlighted, after "v=" up to and not including the &

Copy that, then click the YouTunbe link in the post header (same place for bolding or images).

Enter any name you want in the box that pops up

The paste your video id "Q4Y7MSgJkjc" in this case (no quotes) where the cursor is placed.

Again I added a space.

[Y T="TheVideo"]Q4Y7MSgJkjc[/MEDIA]


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I didn't. I think it would have been much more powerful had Jesse hugged him back. Jesse falling for it one last time.
> 
> His anger at realizing the ricin ruse would have been that much more powerful (even if the ruse happened long before they hugged). But what we feel now for Jesse would have been much more heartbreaking.


I think it was important, though, that they demonstrated Jesse's increasing disillusionment with Walt. Some people complained that Jesse figured things out too quickly, but I think most of the pieces were already in place. What was holding him back was that he, much like Hank, had a vision of Walt that conflicted with the notion that he was capable not only of poisoning a kid, but blatantly lying about it.

Jesse had already put many of the pieces together when initially accusing Walt of poisoning Brock, but ultimately dismissed them as notions considered out of anger because "Walt could never do that". Why didn't he question the fact that Brock had coincidently gotten poisoned with a substance that evoked ricin-like symptoms at the same time as his ricin had gone missing? For the same reason that Hank didn't question Walt crashing the car right before they got to the laundry facility. It didn't fit their images of Walt.

Although Hank was primarily joking back when he asked Walt if the "W. W." in Gale's journal stood for "Walter White", I think subsciously his brain was making connections. But his picture of Walt was so different that his conscious mind dismissed any such notion as crazy. Similarly, Jesse's brain was likely subsciously making many connections as well, but his conscious mind dismissed them because he did not think Walt was capable of such things.

Ironically, Hank having such a dramatically different image of Walt probably made it easier to accept all the things Walt had done as Heisenberg once he had accepted Walt as Heisenberg. He likely felt that if Walt was capable of building a drug empire, he was capable of anything.

Jesse, on the other hand, already knew about Walt's drug activities. He had been with Walt from the beginning, and had seen him grow into Heisenberg. Walt was the wise teacher who cared for him in ways his biological father never had. Although objectively, the leap from Jesse's vision of Walt to accepting Walt's willingness to poison a kid was not as great as the leap Hank had to make, it was a much harder leap for Jesse.

Thus, I think it was important that they showed the mental statue of Walt that Jesse had built in his mind slowly being eroded away. By the time Walt asked him to leave town, it was practically, if not completely gone. Jesse knew he was being manipulated, but accepted it because starting over probably didn't seem to be that bad of an idea. And what was the alternative? To fight Walt? What good would that do him?

It was in this state that Jesse, while standing on the side of the road waiting to be picked up, realized that Huell had stolen his drugs. Pulling out his cigarettes then caused him to remember the last time he thought Huell had stolen something, and all of the connections he had made earlier came rushing back. But this time there was no "Walt could never do that" to prevent him from connecting all the dots. And now he had a reason to stay. Revenge.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

[

Mike Ehrlmantraut is working in Air Traffic Control in Belize.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

netringer said:


> [
> 
> Mike Ehrlmantraut is working in Air Traffic Control in Belize.


Wow...is that an OLD one...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

netringer said:


> Mike Ehrmantraut is working in Air Traffic Control in Belize.


No he's not! He's a soldier in another dimension, chasing down people who leave their quadrants!










Greg


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I agree he does have cancer again, but you got a detail wrong there.
> 
> He didn't punch the paper towel dispenser again. He went in for an appointment, presumably found out he had cancer again, went in the bathroom, and on the way out paused and stared at something with a contemplative look for several seconds. Only then did we see that what he was looking at was the paper towel dispenser that he had punched over a year ago (still broken). I thought that was a poignant moment where we see how differently he's handling the news of cancer now from a year ago.


Though we had some discussion last season over whether it is the same dispenser.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9264244#post9264244


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JETarpon said:


> Though we had some discussion last season over whether it is the same dispenser.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9264244#post9264244


You mean earlier this season...


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You mean earlier this season...


Considering that "season 5 DVDs" are available, and they don't include the current new episodes, then no.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I disagree. I think Walt is willing and able to kill both Hank and Jesse. Walt is overwhelmingly driven by his sense of self preservation. He will do anything it takes to stay on top and stay alive. Mass murder. Poisoning a child. Lying to everyone about everything.
> 
> He is not at the point where he will kill family but only because he thinks he can control Jesse and that he is smarter than Hank. He still feels like he's in control and that he can outwit his opponent. I have no doubt if Jesse had not been interested in the relocation package, then he would have had a more permanent trip to Belize.


I agree.

I do think Walt "kills" Hank. I think Jesse gets out alive and might just drive to Alaska. But Walt either kills Hank, has him killed, gets him in a situation where he gets killed, gets him to kill himself...


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

JETarpon said:


> Considering that "season 5 DVDs" are available, and they don't include the current new episodes, then no.


Which season is airing now?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Numb And Number2 said:


> Which season is airing now?


5B


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)




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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Numb And Number2 said:


> Which season is airing now?


5.2


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ct1 said:


>


Now THAT is a hoot...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

ct1 said:


>


That was great. Better than any others I've seen and really, just what I needed this morning.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

..and it would have worked if they had continued it two sentences longer too.

"It's a threat." "It's what he'll do if I keep pushing"



(Guessing on the lines from memory)


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Numb And Number2 said:


> Which season is airing now?


The last season


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

JETarpon said:


> The last season


Remember, these are network executives, even if a cable network. I assure you that there will come a time where there will be serious discussion of a spin-off series about Walt Jr. following in his fathers footsteps.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Remember, these are network executives, even if a cable network. I assure you that there will come a time where there will be serious discussion of a spin-off series about Walt Jr. following in his fathers footsteps.


... unless Flynn gets "Czech-ed out" when Walt refuses to cook for them ...


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

uncdrew said:


> I agree.
> 
> I do think Walt "kills" Hank. I think Jesse gets out alive and might just drive to Alaska. But Walt either kills Hank, has him killed, gets him in a situation where he gets killed, gets him to kill himself...


No way. Jesse's days are numbered. Hopefully he'll be going to belize sunday.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

BradJW said:


> No way. Jesse's days are numbered. Hopefully he'll be going to belize sunday.


I can't see that happening. Jesse has to be involved in the conclusion.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

JohnB1000 said:


> I can't see that happening. Jesse has to be involved in the conclusion.


Pinkman's gotta go. it will be poetic and soon. Watch 'em all drop. This show is about Heisenberg.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> I can't see that happening. Jesse has to be involved in the conclusion.





Numb And Number2 said:


> Pinkman's gotta go. it will be poetic and soon. Watch 'em all drop. This show is about Heisenberg.


I agree with you both.

Jesse's gotta go (for dramatic reasons), and he's important to the conclusion (ditto). Which is happening now.

Maybe not to night, but I think he could go at any time.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

So someone can quote this when I'm wrong later but I believe he'll make it to the last ep and may even come out ahead somehow.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

We'd just better hear Jesse say "b*tch" before this season is out.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Bryanmc said:


> We'd just better hear Jesse say "b*tch" before this season is out.


To tide you over, just in case:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BradJW said:


> No way. Jesse's days are numbered. Hopefully he'll be going to belize sunday.





Numb And Number2 said:


> Pinkman's gotta go. it will be poetic and soon. Watch 'em all drop. This show is about Heisenberg.


I don't think there's any way Jesse dies before the second-to-last episode. The Walt vs. Hank stuff is important, but Walt vs. Jesse is even more dramatic and more important. They can't have that drama end with so many episodes still remaining.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think there's any way Jesse dies before the second-to-last episode. The Walt vs. Hank stuff is important, but Walt vs. Jesse is even more dramatic and more important. They can't have that drama end with so many episodes still remaining.


I agree. And if he goes before the LAST episode it may be even hard to watch the last one. I mean, who cares what happens to Walt once there is not Walt/Jesse drama.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

betts4 said:


> I agree. And if he goes before the LAST episode it may be even hard to watch the last one. I mean, who cares what happens to Walt once there is not Walt/Jesse drama.


Everyone cares.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I agree. And if he goes before the LAST episode it may be even hard to watch the last one. I mean, who cares what happens to Walt once there is not Walt/Jesse drama.


I'll bet my last dollar that you'll be watching the last episode even without Jesse being in it.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

brianric said:


> I'll bet my last dollar that you'll be watching the last episode even without Jesse being in it.


I don't know. Knowing me, it may not be a good bet. 

Okay, okay, so I probably would watch it, but would be a lot happier if Jesse was in till the end.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Okay, okay, so I probably would watch it, but would be a lot happier if Jesse was in till the end.


If the saga of a high school science teacher evolving into a brutal, amoral crime lord ends in a way that makes me happy, I'll be pissed.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Bold prediction: the ricin is for Junior. Walt will put it in his pancakes.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If the saga of a high school science teacher evolving into a brutal, amoral crime lord ends in a way that makes me happy, I'll be pissed.


I wonder if he'll get tenure or not.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

That's my point. Jesse is not some side character. For me it's the Jesse/Walt show though that does seem to have been lost recently.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Now THAT is a hoot...


That certainly provides context to Cranston's recent appearance on _The Colbert Report_ in roller skates...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Anubys said:


> Bold prediction: the ricin is for Junior. Walt will put it in on his pancakes bacon.


FYP...


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I don't want to see Jesse die.

That will make me sad.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

betts4 said:


> I don't know. Knowing me, it may not be a good bet.
> 
> Okay, okay, so I probably would watch it, but would be a lot happier if Jesse was in till the end.





jsmeeker said:


> I don't want to see Jesse die.
> 
> That will make me sad.


Agree with both of you. The thought of Jesse (the only character with a working moral compass, IMO) dying makes me sad.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Beryl said:


> Agree with both of you. The thought of Jesse (the only character with a working moral compass, IMO) dying makes me sad.


Jesse has a "moral compass"?

The only real difference between what Jesse has done and what Walt has done is that Jesse is getting all messed up by Todd having killed a kid as well as by the poisoning of Brock, who arguably Jesse was personally close to moreso than most characters who have been killed.

Jesse and Walt have killed people, though Walt has directly killed several more than the two Jesse directly killed, and Walt has indirectly killed even more, of course.

So I'm not sure it's right to attribute Jesse's current behavior to any sort of "moral compass." It's much more complex than that, but certainly bound to Jesse fearing for his own life as much as any other.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dswallow said:


> So I'm not sure it's right to attribute Jesse's current behavior to any sort of "moral compass." It's much more complex than that, but certainly bound to Jesse fearing for his own life as much as any other.


I think he has somewhat of a moral compass in that he can't seem to stand the idea of collateral damage, whereas to Walt that's just the price of doing (criminal) business. He's willing to do wrong, as long as it's the wrong he's willing to do and nobody else gets hurt. Walt just doesn't care who gets hurt, as long as it's not him (and I would argue that his devotion to his family is actually devotion to himself; he doesn't care about his FAMILY, he cares about HIS family).


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (and I would argue that his devotion to his family is actually devotion to himself).


Hmmm......interesting theory and quite possibly correct. I had not thought of it that way before, but it makes sense.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> Hmmm......interesting theory and quite possibly correct. I had not thought of it that way before, but it makes sense.


It got me thinking (and I ask because I don't know the answer): Has Walt ever sacrificed anything for his family? Given up something that matters to him because it would help them, and not because he would get any personal benefit from it?

I don't know if this is something the writers have ever really thought about, but it would certainly be an interesting way to view the character...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

There was that pizza.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It got me thinking (and I ask because I don't know the answer): Has Walt ever sacrificed anything for his family? Given up something that matters to him because it would help them, and not because he would get any personal benefit from it?
> 
> I don't know if this is something the writers have ever really thought about, but it would certainly be an interesting way to view the character...


Do you mean since becoming Heisenberg? or in the pre meth days?

Did he when they were starting out as a family?


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

Only 4 to go! Please don't die Jesse. I wonder if there is a "Yo" compilation. 

ETA:


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

whitson77 said:


> Only 4 to go! Please don't die Jesse. I wonder if there is a "Yo" compilation.


Of course there is, it's the Internet.






ETA: we selected the same one


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jgickler said:


> There are lots of ways you can get to Hank being a penny-less drug lord. It could easily be written off as a cash flow problem IMO. Either he was cash poor, maybe due to buying supplies, building a lab, or some other concocted situation where he needed cash, or maybe he had the cash, but had not laundered it yet, so he couldn't spend it. It did occur as a hole to me last night, but I don't think it is a big enough hole to save Hank, and it could easily be explained away.
> \


Maybe his wife gave all his money to her tax-evading boss, who she was having an affair with.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

danterner said:


> Of course there is, it's the Internet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:up: That was great, yo!


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It got me thinking (and I ask because I don't know the answer): Has Walt ever sacrificed anything for his family? Given up something that matters to him because it would help them, and not because he would get any personal benefit from it?
> 
> I don't know if this is something the writers have ever really thought about, but it would certainly be an interesting way to view the character...


Firstly it's hard to find anywhere examples of someone truly doing something for someone else without question, but we first saw him working two jobs to make ends meet, I think that counts. I also truly believe he started the whole meth thing for them.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Edited: Deleted because it was the wrong thread.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

dswallow said:


> ...The only real difference between what Jesse has done and what Walt has done is that Jesse is getting all messed up by Todd having killed a kid as well as by the poisoning of Brock, who arguably Jesse was personally close to moreso than most characters who have been killed....


I don't recall any time Jesse has caused someone harm without feeling guilty about it. Walt has no qualms about anything he's done. That's a big difference in my mind. It doesn't make Jesse's deeds any less horrific, but it does make _Jesse_ less horrific, IMO. I agree with Beryl; Jesse has a moral compass. The fact that he ignores it on a fairly regular basis doesn't mean it's not there.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It got me thinking (and I ask because I don't know the answer): Has Walt ever sacrificed anything for his family? Given up something that matters to him because it would help them, and not because he would get any personal benefit from it?
> 
> I don't know if this is something the writers have ever really thought about, but it would certainly be an interesting way to view the character...


Well, he was *the best in the world at something* and gave that up for them. We can only imagine what being the absolute best in any field is like, but those personalities don't generally just walk away.

This is why I don't understand people who doubt Skylar taking Walt's side in season 5B. She asked him to take a drive, showed him the cash, basically told him to prove it was for the family, and stop. And he did.

Also, all this equivocating about Jesse v. Walt - In Season 1 let's not forget that Walt just wanted to make a certain amount of money for his family and get out. Jesse hounded him until he "pulled him back in."


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

danterner said:


> I don't think the comparison can be extended out too far without breaking, but I heard an interesting observation that Breaking Bad is analogous to Hamlet, with Jesse as Hamlet, Walt as King Claudius, and Skinny Pete and Badger as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and Skylar as Gertrude (who is poisoned and dies - wonder if Skylar has some ricin in her future). I could see Saul as Polonius, too. It kind of works, if you squint and ignore all the places where it doesn't.





Spoiler















Alas...


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

danterner said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesse looks hawt hawt hawt in a suit and tie!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Blues Brothers....


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I wonder if there has been a big a run on black pork pie hats.

HAHAAAHAHAH!

http://www.goorin.com/breakingbad


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

...must... resist.... urge.. to.... buy..........


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

netringer said:


> I wonder big a run there has been on black pork pie hats.
> 
> HAHAAAHAHAH!
> 
> http://www.goorin.com/breakingbad


There is a local haberdashery that has the pork pie hats. I saw them, put one on and promptly said "I am the one who knocks". Very cool until I realized the sales lady didn't get it. The friend I was with didn't get it. Oh well.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> There is a local haberdashery that has the pork pie hats. I saw them, put one on and promptly said "I am the one who knocks". Very cool until I realized the sales lady didn't get it. The friend I was with didn't get it. Oh well.


But WE get it, Betts!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> But WE get it, Betts!


It just isn't as funny with the bare-headed avatar...


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> ...must... resist.... urge.. to.... buy..........


I have a "gambler" hat ala Will Smith in Wild Wild West.








and I guess, the original:









You can also get the Raylan Givens Stetson.








http://www.knudsenhats.com/Hatdept/justified.html


----------

