# pc to tivo transfer is it here?



## aircrewguy

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv251080.htm


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## HDTiVo

Wow, Yippppee!!!

'Course you can't send a .tivo back.  

Good thing I ordered that 300GB Seagate JT posted today.


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## HDTiVo

??? CBR or VBR or both?

??? Different audio formats depending on model???

Eeeek!

???? 16:9 ??? anamorphic passed to my HD Monitor???? Puhleeease.


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## bossku69

is it only MPEG files? would be super great if it was AVI as well


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## HDTiVo

> Frame Rate 29.97 (standard NTSC). Do not try any different frame rates


Absolute first thing i'm gonna try. !)

Oh, and if the support doc is still in beta, may I suggest moving the file size/transfer time/disk usage comment to the bit rate line?


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## greg_burns

www.tivo.com/desktop/TivoDesktop2-2.exe

not working yet... darn!


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## Justin Thyme

Wow- did you catch those specs? 720x480 at 8MPS (with dolby! for Tivo Burners).

That will fricking upscale to HD better than typical DVD data. Very nice indeed.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but no Mpeg4 support mentioned, for example implemented as an Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 translator in the desktop, or some hardware trancoder gizmo attached to the USB port. Maybe next rev... Now what- guess I have to downtranslate all these DivX files I got here....

Hey- I'm not complaining.


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## HDTiVo

Justin Thyme said:


> Wow- did you catch those specs? 720x480 at 8MPS (with dolby! for Tivo Burners).


??? 5.1 at 448Kbps??


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## Justin Thyme

By the way, Nice find Aircrew guy (and HD for trolling the service site for other 7.2 data). 

I wonder about the timing. I certainly hope 7.2 is the next release and the one being beta'd is not 7.15. After all, TivoPoney did call it a minor release- and this sounds pretty fricking major to me. 

....Wonder how long before the newswires begin babbling incoherently about it. ....


As of the time of this writing, nothing on PVRblog or engadget, but you got to give them time, not everyone can be as up to date as TCF.

Man oh man. I shudder to think how the studios are going to react. Hopefully not with lawsuits. This basically means you can download video from any content provider on the web. Wow- I guess Tivo has openned the doors and people not just those partnered with TIvo can sell video into the Tivo platform in a vanilla format. 

This is just awesome. I was ready for this to happen maybe mid next year sometime.


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## ab500

I wonder if TiVo ment for this to get out so soon...


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## Justin Thyme

They've been up at least 3 hours so far. Hmmm. 

Could it be that Tivo employees aren't avid readers of the TTG forum? Hmmm go figure.

But seeing as its been up there THIS long, you'd think if it was unintentional they'd yank them by now. But then again, this is a dang screwy way of announcing a major feature like this.


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## seinman

I wonder how long it's going to be before someone creates "tivocasting" software... podcasting for video? Software that can automatically download content and put it in the right folder on your drive, so you can click it on Now Playing and start watching? That would be the ultimate!


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## Justin Thyme

yeah yeah.... no kidding. This is great great stuff.


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## Justin Thyme

Matt's site is the first of the blogs so far. Not bad. 3 hours since Mike's post.

No fair you guys blabbing to them though. It would have been fun to see how fast they are without help.

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/08/tivo_72_allows_.html


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## HDTiVo

seinman said:


> I wonder how long it's going to be before someone creates "tivocasting" software... podcasting for video? Software that can automatically download content and put it in the right folder on your drive, so you can click it on Now Playing and start watching? That would be the ultimate!


Like that Videora, right?


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## jmemmott

Justin Thyme said:


> Wow- did you catch those specs? 720x480 at 8MPS (with dolby! for Tivo Burners).
> 
> Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but no Mpeg4 support mentioned, for example implemented as an Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 translator in the desktop, or some hardware trancoder gizmo attached to the USB port. Maybe next rev... Now what- guess I have to downtranslate all these DivX files I got here....


I would speculate that they will do what other manufacturers such as Hauppauge are doing : take the incoming MPEG2 stream directly from the Network adapter to the decoder. Keeps them away from legal issues because they are only playing back a stream, not recording. It also gives them a broader range of stream specs - they can support anything the decoder can handle because the rest of the Tivo never sees anything.

If this is the case, a 1.8Ghz or faster PC can transcode a DivX movies on the fly - I do it frequently with the MediaMVP.


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## HDTiVo

jmemmott said:


> I would speculate that they will do what other manufacturers such as Hauppauge are doing : take the incoming MPEG2 stream directly from the Network adapter to the decoder. Keeps them away from legal issues because they are only playing back a stream, not recording. It also gives them a broader range of stream specs - they can support anything the decoder can handle because the rest of the Tivo never sees anything.
> 
> If this is the case, a 1.8Ghz or faster PC can transcode a DivX movies on the fly - I do it frequently with the MediaMVP.


I think the documentation about file size and disk usage on the DVR implies this is not about streaming.


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## morac

The good news is that I'm pretty sure it will be faster to send a video file to the TiVo than it is to transfer one off the TiVo (though if the file needs to be encrypted as it is being received by the TiVo this might not be true).

The bad news is that mp2 files are huge and will still require a long time to transfer. Also I'm assuming that if your TiVo is full of shows you won't have much room for personal videos. I'm assuming suggestions will be deleted automatically (at least I hope they are).


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## rla22

What i would like to see is one of the HME apps , become aware of the imdb or dvd profiler and be able to select my movies from there. That would be awesome.


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## HDTiVo

morac said:


> The good news is that I'm pretty sure it will be faster to send a video file to the TiVo than it is to transfer one off the TiVo (though if the file needs to be encrypted as it is being received by the TiVo this might not be true).
> 
> The bad news is that mp2 files are huge and will still require a long time to transfer. Also I'm assuming that if your TiVo is full of shows you won't have much room for personal videos. I'm assuming suggestions will be deleted automatically (at least I hope they are).


I would think writing to the TiVo HD would be significantly slower than reading from it, and would not want to predict overall speed.

I'd guess there is some communication between TDT 2.2 and the TiVo regarding available space, similar to that done when a TV program is selected to record on the TiVo. Will it go so far as to offer to delete certain programs before they are scheduled for deletion or just reject a transfer if there is not enough elligible to delete stuff? Who knows. Probably suggestions will always be deleted first, as usual.


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## Justin Thyme

Do you recall the numbers on that Morac? I remember reading some tests done on that "other" technical Tivo site- but the speed was only something like 30% faster for PC to hacked Tivo inbound transfers. 

You are right though- it will be nicer when Tivos have Mpeg4 decoder chips and faster communication hardware and software. It would be nice if Tivos had cell processors like ITV posted that could encode HDTV from Component inputs. All these developments like TivoBack are entirely predictable, the only question is how soon? 

For many enthusiasts, these features will never be soon enough but at this juncture I'd like to express my relief that Tivo does seem to be continuing an aggressive movement forward on technology. I am grateful to the independent PVR companies in general and Tivo in particular for pushing the envelope. Left to their own, the cable companies would much rather control and suffocate DVR features with their own business objectives.

The great news this morning is that the support page with those sketchy mpeg specs is still up there. That tends to suggest this is not a feature for some far off release, and it will soon have relevance to the general Tivo audience. 

But it is also prudent to note that there are reasons to believe this capability is not in the upcoming release. Last night there was a post on the main board from some guy who had gotten one of these not under NDA releases that TivoPony stated they do as a test just before they do a volume release. If that user is for real, the notable point was the person didn't mention anything about a new menu item to download video from PC etc. Secondly, whoever it was that posted the IFC screen shots on Engadget would have been privey to this TivoBack feature but strangely didn't whisper a word about it? WTF? Like they forgot to mention the other blockbuster feature? If they aren't reticent about one feature, why the other? Also, TivoPony mentioned that the release for which he was soliticiting beta testers was a "minor" release. Now sure- proportion can look a lot different depending on your point of view and maybe Tivo has some really really big things in mind for the future, but I for one would not call this a minor release if it had TivoBack in it. 

So let's not get too ahead of ourselves here.


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## HDTiVo

With the support pages I posted mentioning these features as part of 7.2, how could this not be in it?

Don't worry about someone who casually looked at their update or TiVoPhony's characterizations.


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## mab631

Does it look like we will be able to do this with tivo basic. I think we can becuase it will show it under now playing?


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## notydredz

Well the support page said that you would need Tivo Desktop 2.2 to transfer the video. So maybe we won't notice any changes in the Tivo menu until Tivo Desktop 2.2 is released and we have the server running. I think the mpeg video transfer feature is in the 7.2 update but we just need Tivo Desktop 2.2 to complete the puzzle.


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## gonzotek

HDTiVo said:


> With the support pages I posted mentioning these features as part of 7.2, how could this not be in it?
> 
> Don't worry about someone who casually looked at their update or TiVoPhony's characterizations.


TiVoPhony? :down: 


notydredz said:


> Well the support page said that you would need Tivo Desktop 2.2 to transfer the video. So maybe we won't notice any changes in the Tivo menu until Tivo Desktop 2.2 is released and we have the server running. I think the mpeg video transfer feature is in the 7.2 update but we just need Tivo Desktop 2.2 to complete the puzzle.


That sounds like the most logical scenario to me.


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## azitnay

mab631 said:


> Does it look like we will be able to do this with tivo basic. I think we can becuase it will show it under now playing?


I'd imagine you won't be able to do this with TiVo Basic, just as you can't MRV or TTG.

Drew


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## aindik

I'm assuming there will be a way to delete the file from the TiVo hard drive, but not the PC, after viewing it. Also, hopefully there will be a way to initiate the transfer and then go watch something else from Now Playing during the beginning of the transfer.


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## seinman

Reading the support page closely, it looks to me as it'll work the exact same way MRV does. Your PC will show up at the bottom of now playing, you can start a transfer, and it'll show up with the rest of your shows on NP. While it's transferring, just go back to NP and pick a different show if you don't want to watch it right away.


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## aindik

seinman said:


> Reading the support page closely, it looks to me as it'll work the exact same way MRV does. Your PC will show up at the bottom of now playing, you can start a transfer, and it'll show up with the rest of your shows on NP. While it's transferring, just go back to NP and pick a different show if you don't want to watch it right away.


I only have one TiVo so I never used MRV. When you're done watching the show on the "destination" TiVo, and you hit delete, does it also delete the show from the "originating" TiVo?


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## gonzotek

aindik said:


> I only have one TiVo so I never used MRV. When you're done watching the show on the "destination" TiVo, and you hit delete, does it also delete the show from the "originating" TiVo?


No, MRV is essentially a "copy" process where you will end up with a seperate copy of the show on each unit, and removing it from the recieving tivo won't delete it from the sending one(and vice versa).


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## TechDreamer

I also think the key to this working will be Tivo Desktop 2.2. I also think this is a huge new feature and contradicts what TivoPony said. Maybe Tivo wants to keep this on the down low? I could understand Tivo being nervous if this allows ripped DVD's to be uploaded.


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## jmemmott

TechDreamer said:


> I could understand Tivo being nervous if this allows ripped DVD's to be uploaded.


This will not be an easy path for uploading DVD's. If you have a DVD/Tivo it will be easier but then you might as well put the DVD in the drive. If is is a regular SA Tivo, the DVD will have AC3 sound not Level 2 MPEG. They may exist, I can't think of any programs that will make the conversion from a VOB to an MPEG2 stream with Level 2 audio in a single step. The only paths I have seen require several programs to convert, demux, transcode and remux the stream again : not convenient to say the least.


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## angel35

aircrewguy said:


> http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv251080.htm


What happened to post ??


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## TechDreamer

> This will not be an easy path for uploading DVD's. If you have a DVD/Tivo it will be easier but then you might as well put the DVD in the drive. If is is a regular SA Tivo, the DVD will have AC3 sound not Level 2 MPEG. They may exist, I can't think of any programs that will make the conversion from a VOB to an MPEG2 stream with Level 2 audio in a single step. The only paths I have seen require several programs to convert, demux, transcode and remux the stream again : not convenient to say the least.


Don't DVD's have other sound files besides AC3? I have only ripped a handful of DVD's, so i am no expert. I have a Hauppauge MVP and it plays VOBs no problem, but it cannot play AC3. I have a Toshiba Tivo with DVD player, so I should be able to play AC3? It would be great if there was a way to make Tivo into a DVD jukebox. Netflix and Tivo would make great partners in that scenario, but not the way they want.


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## morac

> 720 x 480, 704 x 480 (D1), 544 x 480 (3/4 D1), 480 x 480 (2/3 D1), and 352 x 480 (1/2 D1). The higher the resolution, the better the video quality and the larger the resulting file, which means longer transfer time and more disk usage on your PC and DVR.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't these resolutions differ from the ones that the SA (not DVD-R) TiVo's record in. These are official DVD resolutions. This means that all TiVos can play these resolutions. I'm assuming if they can play these resolutions non-DVD-R TiVos could also record them like DVD-R ones do.

I wonder why TiVo doesn't just change the default recording resolutions in all the S2 SA TiVos to be DVD compliant? If they did that then .tivo files from new recordings wouldn't need to have their video transcoded which would speed up DVD burning. Old recordings would still need to be transcoded, but not newer ones.


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## seinman

Tivo basic and medium quality: 352x480
High: 480x480
Best: 544x480

DVD compliant resolutions: 720 x 480, 704 x 480, 352 x 480, 352 x 240

So if you record at basic or medium, no video transcoding is required to burn a DVD (although audio transcoding is). But if you use high or best, you're stuck transcoding.


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## Stainless Steele

This is going to be really sweet!


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## HDTiVo

morac said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't these resolutions differ from the ones that the SA (not DVD-R) TiVo's record in. These are official DVD resolutions. This means that all TiVos can play these resolutions. I'm assuming if they can play these resolutions non-DVD-R TiVos could also record them like DVD-R ones do.
> 
> I wonder why TiVo doesn't just change the default recording resolutions in all the S2 SA TiVos to be DVD compliant? If they did that then .tivo files from new recordings wouldn't need to have their video transcoded which would speed up DVD burning. Old recordings would still need to be transcoded, but not newer ones.


SA2s record at 352x480,480x480, (and in the case of satellite @ Best 544x480.)

Changing SA2 resolutions would 1. Violate inertia; 2. create confusion and CS calls; 3. increase filesizes; 4. reduce video quality; 5. make life easier for burning DVDs with TTG; 6. likely be possible for the SA2 to do...


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## HDTiVo

seinman said:


> Tivo basic and medium quality: 352x480
> High: 480x480
> Best: 544x480
> 
> DVD compliant resolutions: 720 x 480, 704 x 480, 352 x 480, 352 x 240
> 
> So if you record at basic or medium, no video transcoding is required to burn a DVD (although audio transcoding is). But if you use high or best, you're stuck transcoding.


Yeah, except that in the infinite wisdom of MyDVD, there is no 352x480, so ALL .tivoes must be transcoded!!!


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## jmemmott

TechDreamer said:


> Don't DVD's have other sound files besides AC3? I have only ripped a handful of DVD's, so i am no expert. I have a Hauppauge MVP and it plays VOBs no problem, but it cannot play AC3.


"Audio coding formats available for DVD-Video include Dolby Digital, MPEG-1 & MPEG-2, LPCM and DTS but MPEG audio is only defined for Europe, but is rarely used even there and is never used for multi-channel audio." In the US AC-3 is the norm.

Some of the MVP server programs implement scripting to use BeSweet and other programs to follow the transcoding process I outlined because the MVP suffers from the same limitation on MPEG-2 audio. These scripts only work on a specific subset of the available DVD's and take a while to run but they simplify the effort.


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## kbmb

HDTiVo said:


> 'Course you can't send a .tivo back.


Has this been confirmed? So does that mean that we can't essentially use our computers to save and store shows recorded by the Tivo....then transfer them back to watch them?

-Kevin


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## ashu

HDTiVo said:


> Yeah, except that in the infinite wisdom of MyDVD, there is no 352x480, so ALL .tivoes must be transcoded!!!


I'm amazed at the masochism of those who continue to endure Sonic's abominations. You are stronger than I.


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## HDTiVo

kbmb said:


> Has this been confirmed? So does that mean that we can't essentially use our computers to save and store shows recorded by the Tivo....then transfer them back to watch them?
> 
> -Kevin


No, it is not confirmed, but reading the TiVo support page literally would lead you to believe what I said.


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## jmemmott

HDTiVo said:


> No, it is not confirmed, but reading the TiVo support page literally would lead you to believe what I said.


I am curious why you come to that conclusion. A Tivo file is an mpeg2 file that satisfies the requirements Tivo has listed : resolution, bit rate, level-2 audio. Granted the P, B frames and audio packets are encrypted but the program stream is a completely standard and Tivo certainly knows how to decrypt it as long as it came from the same Tivo.


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## HDTiVo

jmemmott said:


> I am curious why you come to that conclusion. A Tivo file is an mpeg2 file that satisfies the requirements Tivo has listed : resolution, bit rate, level-2 audio. Granted the P, B frames and audio packets are encrypted but the program stream is a completely standard and Tivo certainly knows how to decrypt it as long as it came from the same Tivo.


Because 1. it would have to be decrypted on the TiVo since I don't think they would send unencrypted .tivo over the network and 2. it might have to be split into audio and video like the original was on the TiVo. Alot of work for the poor old SA2.

Also the support page does not specifically mention .tivo; that says to me in "product spec speak" that its not there.


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## jmemmott

HDTiVo said:


> Because 1. it would have to be decrypted on the TiVo since I don't think they would send unencrypted .tivo over the network and 2. it might have to be split into audio and video like the original was on the TiVo. Alot of work for the poor old SA2.
> 
> Also the support page does not specifically mention .tivo; that says to me in "product spec speak" that its not there.


Actually, my question was with respect to your statement that a literal reading of the page was the basis of your conclusion. I thought I might have missed something because my literal reading came out opposite. The .tivo file seemed to adhere to all of the requirements that were listed and the issue of tivo encryption wasn't mentioned.

When you open it to interpretation then the doors go wide :

1. It is an mpeg2 file meeting the spec. After decrypting, a tivo file needs no special treatment other than that required for every mpeg2 sent to the tivo.

2. The purpose of the encryption was to prevent the file from being uploaded or transferred to other people. The DirectShow filter provides a much easier decryption path than a technique that requires me to download the file to my PC, turn around and send it back and capture the IP packets on the second trip. As long as it doesn't decrypt until it is in the Tivo Desktop on the way back I don't think they will have a problem with the transfer - if they do they can encrypt every transfer.

3. I don't always agree with all of the choices Tivo makes but I don't think they are making stupid choices. Usually, when I disagree it is because they are pursuing different goals than I want to see. The flack that would arise if they leave out a feature so easily implemented and in demand is not in their interest. It would just fuel the practice of removing the encryption permanently - the method is already an open secret.

We shall see.


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## HDTiVo

jmemmott said:


> Actually, my question was with respect to your statement that a literal reading of the page was the basis of your conclusion. I thought I might have missed something because my literal reading came out opposite. The .tivo file seemed to adhere to all of the requirements that were listed and the issue of tivo encryption wasn't mentioned.


But a .tivo file does not meet the literal requirements. It is simply not an mpeg-2 file. It is an encrypted mepg-2 file. The lack of mention of something (tivo encryption in this case) in "product spec speak" means its not included most of the time.

That's how I see it.


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## gonzotek

I'm pretty confident that .tivo will be supported. Besides, if they open up a door to sending mpeg content to the TiVo, but not the previously recorded content in .tivo files, where will most people get most of their content? MPEG-2 files don't exactly fall off trees . That'd be a little like Apple selling iTunes music that can't be played on the buyer 's iPod.


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## EwanG

I'm just wondering if someone who has received 7.2 has played around with the web interface for the TiVO. I would think there would be some mechanism through there to upload content, and then we could tell whether .tivos work or not...


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## TiVoMovieMan

So can you put DVDs in your computer, and then using Desktop 2.2 transfer them to your TiVo and use the TiVo as your movie library? If so, how???


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## azitnay

You'll have to rip the DVD to an MPEG-2 file, which you can then place in My TiVo Recordings and transfer to your computer.

I've personally never done it, but I'm sure there are a multitude of programs that will do this for you. A quick Google search turns up a non-free package:

http://www.tomdownload.com/multimedia_design/video/dvd2mpeg.htm

Please note that I'm not endorsing it or saying that it'll work. I've never even downloaded it.

Drew


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## MikeMar

I just want it for my 40 hour tivo, so i can just archieve shows like lost, or something, and just queue them all up and watch away


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## ZeoTiVo

TiVoMovieMan said:


> So can you put DVDs in your computer, and then using Desktop 2.2 transfer them to your TiVo and use the TiVo as your movie library? If so, how???


I have 7.2 now and desktop 2.2 running. No there is no way to rip a DVD using TiVo desktop. I highly doubt TiVo will ever get into that business so look ofr other ways.

and * YES, you can save a .tivo file to the PC using desktop and now in desktop 2.2 you CAN pull a .tivo file back to the TiVo DVR *


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## Re-Hash

> 'Course you can't send a .tivo back.


*2-way .tivo transfers work.* There is a few seconds of lag at the beginning, while the tivo buffers the transfer, but then you can watch. I guess you can call it streaming - it's like going into "Now Playing" and seeing the recording in progress, then deciding to watch it (even though it's not complete). I was able to watch a .tivo show as well as a 'similar' .mpg show this way. The recording is then saved on the TiVo, in case you want to watch it again.



> So can you put DVDs in your computer, and then using Desktop 2.2 transfer them to your TiVo and use the TiVo as your movie library? If so, how???


You have to transcode them first. DVD2SVCD will do this in one step. Of course, this opens up the copyright issue, which I won't address. I'm sure we are all good citizens and will obey the laws. 

*The TTG spec is:*

MPEG:
Resolution 720 x 480, 704 x 480 (D1), 544 x 480 (3/4 D1), 480 x 480 (2/3 D1), and 352 x 480 (1/2 D1).
Bit Rate 1  8 Mbps.

Frame Rate 29.97 (standard NTSC).

Aspect Ratio 4:3 (recommended) or 16:9
Audio MPEG-1 Layer 2 for TiVo DVRs without DVD; AC/3 (Dolby) for TiVo DVRs with DVD.

*The Super Video CD (SVCD) spec is:*

NTSC (NTSC Film)

Video:
max 2600 kbit/sec MPEG-2 (Audio + Video bitrate max bitrate is 2778 kbit/s).
480 x 480 pixels (CVD 352x480)
29,97 frames/second
23,976 frames/second with 3:2 pulldown (NTSC Film)
with up to 4 Selectable CVD or SVCD Subtitles

Audio:
44100 Hz
32 - 384 kbit/sec MPEG-1 Layer2 or MPEG2 Audio

(the SVCD spec is from videohelp)



> Don't DVD's have other sound files besides AC3?


In the USA/Canada (Region 1) it's AC3, DTS, and/or PCM. Other regions originally used MPEG as well, but I think a lot have adpoted Dolby AC3 at this point.


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## TechDreamer

Why would the video have to be downgraded to SVCD?


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## jmemmott

TechDreamer said:


> Why would the video have to be downgraded to SVCD?


I haven't tried it but assuming it works, it is a clean way to get the audio converted from AC-3 to MPeg level-2 along with extracting the video. For those of us with non-DVD Tivos, that conversion is also necessary.


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## Re-Hash

TechDreamer said:


> Why would the video have to be downgraded to SVCD?


It doesn't - it's just convenient. Stand-alone TiVo captures video in 480x480 from what I read here, so it seemed logical to feed it a 480x480 mpg.


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## Re-Hash

VideoHelp has some links to SVCD samples, for those who want to try a PC->TiVo transfer.


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## Justin Thyme

Interesting. I was amazed at the resolution possible on the Tivo with 720x480 files- especially when displayed to an HDTV using progressive component output on a DVD burner Tivo.

And transfer of non protected content is super easy. I have about 50 family videos mostly created using Sonic MyDVD, and I did as ZeoTivo mentionned-

Just right click on the dvd to explore the disk, go to the Video_TS folder and copy the .vob files to your Tivo directory. Then rename to a .mpg file. 

Worked just dandy on all but one of four DVDs. Not sure why yet.


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## Dan203

Actually it's unnecessary to transcode DVDs. All you need to do is use DVD Decrypter to output seperate audio and video streams, then use a multiplexing program to combine the audio and video back into a single .mpg file. (personally I use mplex, which is a commandline tool available as part of the dvdauthor package on sourceforge.) One thing to be aware of is audio delay. DVD Decrypter will put the delay in the file name of the output audio file, you just need to make sure to feed it back into your multiplexing program or the audio and video will be out of sync. 

Dan


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## Re-Hash

> Actually it's unnecessary to transcode DVDs.


True for video, but I think there is an (yet untested?) issue on the SA TiVos handling AC3. Anyone try AC3 on a SA unit?


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## rog

> 'Course you can't send a .tivo back.





Re-Hash said:


> *2-way .tivo transfers work.*


2 way transfers work, and in my experience, they work quite well! This is super freaking cool stuff! :up: :up:


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## TiVoMovieMan

Justin Thyme said:


> Interesting. I was amazed at the resolution possible on the Tivo with 720x480 files- especially when displayed to an HDTV using progressive component output on a DVD burner Tivo.
> 
> And transfer of non protected content is super easy. I have about 50 family videos mostly created using Sonic MyDVD, and I did as ZeoTivo mentionned-
> 
> Just right click on the dvd to explore the disk, go to the Video_TS folder and copy the .vob files to your Tivo directory. Then rename to a .mpg file.
> 
> Worked just dandy on all but one of four DVDs. Not sure why yet.


The DVD I'm using for this (I,Robot) will not let me copy any files from the contents of the DVD to anything. It's all locked! How can I get around this?


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## greg_burns

TiVoMovieMan said:


> The DVD I'm using for this (I,Robot) will not let me copy any files from the contents of the DVD to anything. It's all locked! How can I get around this?


You need software like DVDDecrypter. Maybe be getting hard to find, now that the man came knocking on his door. :down:


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## Dan203

Re-Hash said:


> True for video, but I think there is an (yet untested?) issue on the SA TiVos handling AC3. Anyone try AC3 on a SA unit?


The TiVo documentation is wrong. ALL TiVos can play AC3 audio. The only difference is that non-DVD units don't have optical outputs so they have to downsample the audio to stereo. Not only that but they don't have any compression logic, so there is no way to adjust the dynamic range of the audio. Meaning you could end up with recordings where the talking is really low and the explosions are really loud.

If you run into that then all you have to do is run the audio through BeSweetGUI to convert it to MP2 and normalize it.

Dan


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## jasch

I just converted a DVD to MPEG2 using FFMPEG. I took care of most of the option to make them compatible with the Tivo suggested values... The only thing was the resolution. While most of my streams are 480x480, I left the DVD converson at the possible max.

The DVD image was 4 gig more or less, the inserted stream was 1.6gb. And it looks pretty good.


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## greg_burns

Justin Thyme said:


> And transfer of non protected content is super easy. I have about 50 family videos mostly created using Sonic MyDVD, and I did as ZeoTivo mentionned-
> 
> Just right click on the dvd to explore the disk, go to the Video_TS folder and copy the .vob files to your Tivo directory. Then rename to a .mpg file.


Ok, I've used DVD Decrypter on a DVD to get at the .vob files. Renamed one of them to .mpg and dropped it into my Tivo Recordings directory. When I try to transfer I get some bogus error on the Tivo about the file not being transfered because it was not found on the <insert my computer name here>.

I didn't expect this to work, because of the AC3 issue. (I have a 240) But I am hearing conflicting things so I thought I would give it a try. (I assume Justin's .vob files worked because it was not AC3 since it was home made). The resolution of the vob/mpg is 720 x 480.

Is this weird error message due to the audio, or is something else wrong here?


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## Justin Thyme

I am totally baffled. I dropped my camcorder origin MyDvd created VOB into graphedit and it has an ac3 filter there. Fine. So it shouldn't play on a 540 right? Well wrong. It plays just fine. Tried it on the 240. Plays even better (240 plays at real time, 540 is a little too slow for these higher data rate files.

I don't get it. what the tivo help page says, due to the AC3 problem I thought I should only be able to play it on a 560. Better take a look at that spec again....

I have written a few graphedit filters for mapping AC3 out to PCM so if that's it, we can pass this info off to the eTivo dude and maybe he would be add some more filters for massaging a pile of files regardless of format quirkiness (including DivX6) back to compatible mpg2 format that Tivo will eat. The AC3 filter I used was the open source one pointed to from the Divx6 board.

[edit- just read Dan's second note that the AC3 info on the Tivo page is wrong. OK. I was not hallucinating. I guess I can stop breathing into the paper bag now.]

There is some little util that tells you all the mpeg header stuff including type of audio and bitrate and all that. I have to search around to find it. YOu know a good one?

I am chewing the nugget Dan tossed us. I think he means using Decrypter:
1) use IFO mode,
2) on the right hand tab, click on stream processing tab.
3) check the box to extract streams
4) uncheck the streams you don't want.

That will give you a video and separate audio file.

Then remux the audio back together using a util such as the one Dan referred to. Haven't gotten that far yet. Have to go unload the groceries from the car....

Dang this is fun.


----------



## greg_burns

Justin Thyme said:


> There is some little util that tells you all the mpeg header stuff including type of audio and bitrate and all that. I have to search around to find it. YOu know a good one?


You mean like GSpot?

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/GSpot.htm



Justin Thyme said:


> The AC3 filter I used was the open source one pointed to from the Divx6 board.


http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/


----------



## Dan203

greg_burns said:


> Ok, I've used DVD Decrypter on a DVD to get at the .vob files. Renamed one of them to .mpg and dropped it into my Tivo Recordings directory. When I try to transfer I get some bogus error on the Tivo about the file not being transfered because it was not found on the <insert my computer name here>.


I have not had any luck transfering renamed VOB's directly from DVD Decrypter. However if I set DVD Decrypter to IFO Mode and tell it to demux the audio and video streams, then remux them into a real .mpg file using mplex it works perfectly every time. Even when they have AC3 audio. (this has been tried on a 140 unit, a 540 unit and a Toshiba DVD-RW unit)

Dan


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## Dan203

Justin Thyme said:


> I am chewing the nugget Dan tossed us. I think he means using Decrypter:
> 1) use IFO mode,
> 2) on the right hand tab, click on stream processing tab.
> 3) check the box to extract streams
> 4) uncheck the streams you don't want.
> 
> That will give you a video and separate audio file.
> 
> Then remux the audio back together using a util such as the one Dan referred to. Haven't gotten that far yet. Have to go unload the groceries from the car....
> 
> Dang this is fun.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. And believe me I've done this with several movies and it works perfectly every time, even with AC3 audio.

Dan


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## Justin Thyme

OK. I left out you want to click the Demux radio button at the bottom. of the streams tab in Decrypter.

What you wind up with is the AC3 stream in a small .vob file. The video is in the .m2v files. You need to look at the .txt file to see what the audio offsets are....

Okeydokey, now on to mplex.

BTW- Everyone owes Dan big thanks on this. I was really going down some dark alleys with this until his note.

So- everyone all together now...

Thanks Dan!​


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## Re-Hash

I didn't need to demux at all - I copied a *.VOB to 'My TiVo Recordings' and renamed it to *.MPG and it plays on my 540 (albeit not in real time). Whoda thunk it?


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## MikeMar

Thats awesome, so you can easily play a dvd onto tivo that way? (well i guess you could also just burn it and watch on a dvd player, whatever, still cool )


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## greg_burns

Justin Thyme said:


> OK. I left out you want to click the Demux radio button at the bottom. of the streams tab in Decrypter.


Trying again with Demux radio selected. :up:

Should we be going into Tools -> Settings -> IFO mode -> File splitting and setting that to none? Does it matter? Not really sure what the final output is (or what you do with it) just yet...


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## davidwiz

I got the Tivo to accept a VOB files (renamed to mpg) simply by making sure there was only one audio stream and no subpicture.

I used Shrinker and just reauthor with just the main movie. Strip out all subpicture and all audio except AC3 5.1 English. In preferences remove checkmark from split VOBs in 1GB chunks. Backup to your hard drive. This will give you 1 large VOB file that you just rename to MPG and transfer to your TIVO.

I had the same problems as others, when trying to transfer after using DVDDecryptor. It didnt seem to be because of the AC3 audio but rather the VOB wasnt being cleaned of all the extra stuff.


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## josephs911

If you want TiVo Version 7.2 visit the address below, it can take up to three days but they will send you the update visit http://research.tivo.com/72priority/


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## greg_burns

davidwiz said:


> I got the Tivo to accept a VOB files (renamed to mpg) simply by making sure there was only one audio stream and no subpicture.
> 
> I used Shrinker and just reauthor with just the main movie. Strip out all subpicture and all audio except AC3 5.1 English. In preferences remove checkmark from split VOBs in 1GB chunks. Backup to your hard drive. This will give you 1 large VOB file that you just rename to MPG and transfer to your TIVO.
> 
> I had the same problems as others, when trying to transfer after using DVDDecryptor. It didnt seem to be because of the AC3 audio but rather the VOB wasnt being cleaned of all the extra stuff.


 :up:

That worked on the first try. Thanks David!!!


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## Justin Thyme

OK here is the updated step by step list for the dvd decrypter method of generating an Mpeg from a stubborn dvd- not sure if it is any better than other methods. I am just plugging along seeing how this way works...

Tools needed:
DVD decrypter download from Doom9 http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/software.htm
 Mplex.EXE location: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=59028&package_id=55012&release_id=210470

Using DVD decrypter 3.5.4.0 :
Go to tools.settings, tab IFO mode options. Set File Splitting to "None"

1) use IFO mode,
2) on the right hand tab, click on stream processing tab.
3) check the box to extract streams
4) uncheck the streams you don't want.
5) For Each stream, click the stream, then click Radio button Demux.
6) Now click the icon to run the decrypt.

Now for putting the files back together

mplex -f 3 -O nn -o output.mpg VTS_01_1.M2V VTS_01_1.ac3

Where nn = the audio offset stated in DVD decrypter's VTS_01 - Stream Information.txt file.

Previously unresolved problems
* Problem of AC3 not getting outputed to a VOB was solved. If you get a vob with the ac3 file in it, in step 5 you did not click the demux button for the ac3 stream.
* 16:9 aspect ratio "anamorphic" Mpegs will not display correctly on certain combinations of Tivos and Televisions. This is generally rare, but if you are affected the solution in nearly all cases is very quick. See this note for table of combinations affected, and the remedies.

Any suggested corrections? Please PM me.

Edit 9/2- A) corrections so you won't get ac3 in a vob. 
B) Pointer to remedies for 16:9 mpeg display problems.
Thanks to Dan for telling us about this approach, Oodie, and other more experienced folks who got me straightenned out on this process.


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## Blurayfan

I have transferred a DVD using the IFO option of Decrypter without checking the demux radio, set file split to none, select stream processing. After deciding which stream I wanted I got a complete copy of my 1:30 movie in one vob file renamed it to .mpg and transferred to the DVR. I was pleasantly surprised to see my TiVo played this 16x9 anamorphic movie unsqueezed after selecting the 16x9 "TV aspect Ratio". One last thing, this dvd had only one audio stream "ac3 Dolby Digital 2.0".


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## Re-Hash

Another option, if you just want the VOBs (which can then be renamed MPG) and want to strip out the audio/subtitles, is DVD Shrink. You can choose to "re-Author" the DVD, select the parts of the DVD you want to keep (like the main movie), select the audio stream you want, change the Compression Settings to 'None' (so that it's not 'shrunk'), and then elect to not split the VOBs into 1GB chunks. There is a bit of a learning curve but it's pretty easy after the first use.


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## TomXP411

*woohoo!!*

YOU CAN TRANSFER TIVO FILES BACK TO THE TIVO
I'm doing it right now with an episode of _Monster Garage_

So I'm not going to bother trans-coding my stuff to DVD. Since the show information is saved in the .tivo file, I'm just going to start burning the .tivo files straight to DVD-ROM. Sure, I have to have a computer to play them back, but most of my archived movies are AVI files anyway.

Wow, what a time seaver.


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## Justin Thyme

DVDKingdom said:


> I have transferred a DVD using the IFO option of Decrypter without checking the demux radio...


 Yes of course much more simple techniques than the one using the Mplex step work on a huge number of dvds. The process that Dan hipped us to and I elaborated on above deals with the more nasty DVD files. For example, if I use that process with some DVDs, what I get is an mpeg with the audio vastly out of sync.

Until Dan's suggestion, I didn't know of way of dealing with this problem. Maybe the other techniques folks have been talking about take care of this problem too.

Perhaps they could comment on that.


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## Justin Thyme

Re-Hash said:


> Another option, if you just want the VOBs (which can then be renamed MPG) and want to strip out the audio/subtitles, is DVD Shrink. You can choose to "re-Author" the DVD, select the parts of the DVD you want to keep (like the main movie), select the audio stream you want, change the Compression Settings to 'None' (so that it's not 'shrunk'), and then elect to not split the VOBs into 1GB chunks. There is a bit of a learning curve but it's pretty easy after the first use.


 How fast is that? If it is real fast like 10 minutes then this "no shrink option is a simple remux. Since it is in a GUI, it is no doubt much simpler and would be my prefered method.

So- how fast is the step to combine the audio back with the video?

Also- does it deal with out of sync audio issue? Ideally you wouldn't even be aware of the setting and the sofware would do it for you since the data is on the dvd. Chances are that if it is a blockbuster type movie that it would be out of sync unless it had this support.

VOB's are good for me, though others have noted that rename of .vobs to mpgs have problems. If it works 80% of the time, then it looks like this method would save a bunch of time.


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## Justin Thyme

TomXP411 said:


> So I'm not going to bother trans-coding my stuff to DVD. Since the show information is saved in the .tivo file, I'm just going to start burning the .tivo files straight to DVD-ROM. Sure, I have to have a computer to play them back,...
> .


Actually, you can play the dvd stored .tivo or mpg. from your Tivo. Just put a shortcut to the show in your Tivo directory.


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## oodie

Justin Thyme said:


> How fast is that? If it is real fast like 10 minutes then this "no shrink option is a simple remux. Since it is in a GUI, it is no doubt much simpler and would be my prefered method.
> 
> So- how fast is the step to combine the audio back with the video?


It is very fast, so you are correct that there is no re-encoding of the video. If the DVD files are on the hard drive already, it took less than 4 minutes from start to finish. Otherwise, it is as fast as your drive can supply the data. It has worked perfectly on the five DVD's I have tried so far.



Justin Thyme said:


> Also- does it deal with out of sync audio issue? Ideally you wouldn't even be aware of the setting and the sofware would do it for you since the data is on the dvd. Chances are that if it is a blockbuster type movie that it would be out of sync unless it had this support.


Not sure about this one, I havn't tried any blockbuster-type movies


Justin Thyme said:


> VOB's are good for me, though others have noted that rename of .vobs to mpgs have problems. If it works 80% of the time, then it looks like this method would save a bunch of time.


I believe the problems occur only when multiple audio tracks or subpicture are present?


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## Justin Thyme

Okeydokey, good enough for me. It is free so I'll give it a whirl. Looks like the latest version is 3.2 and is at http://www.doom9.org/?/mpg/dvdshrink31-main.htm. If you have norton make an exception for Doom9 or turn it off for a second or it will balk on the download.

We have a pretty extensive library of Dvds from amazon but the only stuff that I am interested in moving over is some of the children's shows. All of the ones I have tried simple xfer techniques don't work because they have these delays in them.

The girls are young and freak out when they see scenes like the wicked witch so I have to do some sort of transfer to edit out those sorts of scenes.

They like Bunnies and saw _Watership Down _ in the children's section. Ok, so I knew it has some really horrifying scenes of bunny torture, mutilation and genocide in it. Wouldn't have bought it if I didn't know that I couldn't edit out the scenes.

This one was certainly not a blockbuster, but it had an 83ms delay in it. It would probably be much more convenient if your method worked on everything I am doing.


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## MikeMar

Says it can take up to an hour or longer, how long does the update take??


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## MikeMar

Restart only took like 10 min, love it, pointed desktop to external hd and now my 40 hour tivo has like 140 hours of shows on it! woo


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## Re-Hash

Justin Thyme said:


> How fast is that?
> Also- does it deal with out of sync audio issue?


If you are not "shrink"-ing the DVD, then it's basically as fast as your DVD can rip. Looks like you want to be sure to only leave one audio stream (and maybe omit the subtitles?).

There are no sync problems with the audio at all.

You can also do some crude editing, but you'll end up with multiple VOBS. You can simply pick start/stop points and repeat the process. Nobody wants to see bunnies get tortured.


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## TiVoMovieMan

So wait a second, are you guys saying that you are getting crypted DVDs like iRobot, Air Force One, or whatever, transfered onto your TiVo within 10 minutes?


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## Justin Thyme

TiVoMovieMan said:


> So wait a second, are you guys saying that you are getting crypted DVDs like iRobot, Air Force One, or whatever, transfered onto your TiVo within 10 minutes?


Not quite. They are ripped from DVD into a suitable format for Tivo transfer within 10 minutes- mileage may vary depending on length of show, speed of dvd, speed of hd.

Transfer to Tivo- it may be played as it transfers- "streamed. For huge data rate DVDs, these transfers are faster than real time if you have a 240 series Tivo. If you have a 540 or 560 tivo, your transfer rate appears to be slower than real time. These timings for a wired network.


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## HDTiVo

One thing you may not want to "try at home."

Of course the first thing I had to do was try to MRV an MPEG from my TiVo with 7.2 to one without 7.2. The first one I tried was way out of spec and played improperly on the 7.1 in the same way it did on the 7.2 TiVo. The next one was in spec, but playing it causes the 7.1 TiVo to reboot! So don't do this if you don't want your 7.1 TiVoes rebooting. 

BTW I am getting out of spec mpegs to play properly on the 7.2 . The one that didn't work was ridiculously out of spec.

Not very scientific, but there's some monkeying to do ahead.


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## rog

sorry i keep pimping this thread, but... it's worth the attention IMHO:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=256478

do it yourself _internet > tivo transfers_


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## mogdor

As you can see I'm new here so first off, hi everybody and glad to be here. Anyway, I have a couple questions about pc video to tivo, and I'm sure I can find the answers if I look around some, but I'm really pressed for time so if anyone's willing to give me some quick answers I'd really appreciate it.

1) From what I understand, tivo can only play mpeg-2 files, right? How difficult is it to convert other formats (divx, avi, etc.) to mpeg-2 and how long does it take? I'm sure it depends on what program you use, but I guess what I'm asking is what's the easiest way/program to convert anything to mpeg-2?

2) Do you have to first transfer files from your pc to the tivo (and use up space) , or can the tivo stream the movies straight from your pc through a wireless network?


For the past few months I've been considering getting a new DVD player with divx capability to play all my movies, but now that I've heard that tivo can play pc video I'm wondering wether I should just get a wireless network adapter for my tivo instead. Both options cost roughly the same so bottom line, I'm just wondering how much "hassle" is actually involved in watching my pc movies on the tivo. Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks a lot! :up:


----------



## greg_burns

mogdor said:


> As you can see I'm new here so first off, hi everybody and glad to be here. Anyway, I have a couple questions about pc video to tivo, and I'm sure I can find the answers if I look around some, but I'm really pressed for time so if anyone's willing to give me some quick answers I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> 1) From what I understand, tivo can only play mpeg-2 files, right? How difficult is it to convert other formats (divx, avi, etc.) to mpeg-2 and how long does it take? I'm sure it depends on what program you use, but I guess what I'm asking is what's the easiest way/program to convert anything to mpeg-2?
> 
> 2) Do you have to first transfer files from your pc to the tivo (and use up space) , or can the tivo stream the movies straight from your pc through a wireless network?
> 
> For the past few months I've been considering getting a new DVD player with divx capability to play all my movies, but now that I've heard that tivo can play pc video I'm wondering wether I should just get a wireless network adapter for my tivo instead. Both options cost roughly the same so bottom line, I'm just wondering how much "hassle" is actually involved in watching my pc movies on the tivo. Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks a lot! :up:


You can use QuEnc to convert Divx to MPEG2. It seemed a lot faster than converting _to_ Divx. (not sure why that is) But you'll eat up a lot of disk space, converting from Divx to MPEG.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3176572&&#post3176572

You cannot stream per se, buy if you network is fast enough you can watch the video as it transfers to the Tivo. Don't think a wireless connection will cut it though.

I would just get the Divx DVD player to avoid the hassel. (Or a modded XBox or Winodws MCE and play your files across the network). I wish I knew if the new Xbox 360 would be able to play Divx files across a network, I'm guessing not.  I hear that Justin has been playing Divx use Windows MCE 2005. Don't think even that is a supported function, but he must have it working.


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## cwoody222

Help, not working here.

I took a WMV file and used TMPGEnc to create a mpg out of it. I moved that into my TiVo Recordings folder and it appears in TiVo Desktop. I can't play it there, though. It just says "Unable to Play"

My TiVo found the computer no problem and listed the show in question. Upon initiating the download I'm told it wasn't successful and to go to the RH for details. It says it can't find the file on my PC. It's there, though.

Why is that?

PS I'm on WinXP and playing the file itself works fine.

(seems this is as difficult on a PC as it is non-existent on Macs  )


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## Dan203

greg_burns said:


> You can use QuEnc to convert Divx to MPEG2. It seemed a lot faster than converting _to_ Divx. (not sure why that is)


MPEG-2 is a much older codec so it's processing requirements are much lower then MPEG-4 (i.e. DivX, Xvid, etc...)

Dan


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## Justin Thyme

The following problem can occur if you rip a 16:9 aspect ratio show to mpeg2.

If you have a non DVD capable Tivo, ignore this. It does not affect either my 540 or 240 series Tivos. It does affect Toshiba DVD Burner Tivo (RX-20), and it may also affect the other DVD burner or player Tivos. (If you have one of those and do or do not see this bug, please PM me).

Problem: Regardless of mode you put your tv or Tivo into, the most you see is a 4x3 rectangle portion of the original video. When compared to the same file displayed on a PC, you will notice the left most portion of the 16:9 picture is eisplayed, but the right most portion is cropped off.

Solution (for tv with widescreen capability):  using DvdPatcher*, change the aspect ratio to 4:3. Then when you show the program, put your TV into wide mode (or whatever your tv vendor calls it when it stretches the video horizontally to fill a 16:9 screen.)

Solution for SD tv without any widescreen capability. You will have to process your video to scale it for letterboxing, or crop it for 4:3. If I were doing this, I would do use graphedit on the mpeg, using the moonlight image preparator because it is very good for letterboxing content. However there are probably better programs for this sort of thing that others might like to comment on. You can certainly do it in premiere, but I don't recall if MyDVD or ulead Movie factory provided that option. Maybe Nero Express does?

Anyhow easy solution for widescreen TVs is to patch the header as described above.

* Location of Dvdpatcher 1.06 is http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/software2.htm- look under S/VCD tools

By the way, this tells some basic info on your Mpeg File. Chris- if you use this tool, you may notice that something from your video is out of specs posted on the Tivo page listed on the Original Post of this thread. If aspect ratio is nonstandard, it will get the result you listed. Ditto if the datarate is really high (like over 9600Kbps) Typical if you created a CBR, or the WMV was some promo for a game. If the frame rate is off- it will xfer, but the video will be jerky.

More in depth info on the Mpeg file charactistics is available with a tool on the called Mpeg Inspector. If your mpeg is not playing, chances are that using this program you will be able to figure out what in your mpeg2 is out of spec for Tivo.

The video formats that Tivo is supporting are fairly mainstream. Chances are if your file was designed for Television playback, you won't have to dick with it. If it was designed for PC playback, well you may be in for a bit of an adventure.


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## mogdor

greg_burns said:


> You can use QuEnc to convert Divx to MPEG2. It seemed a lot faster than converting _to_ Divx. (not sure why that is) But you'll eat up a lot of disk space, converting from Divx to MPEG.
> 
> You cannot stream per se, buy if you network is fast enough you can watch the video as it transfers to the Tivo. Don't think a wireless connection will cut it though.
> 
> I would just get the Divx DVD player to avoid the hassel. (Or a modded XBox or Winodws MCE and play your files across the network). I wish I knew if the new Xbox 360 would be able to play Divx files across a network, I'm guessing not.  I hear that Justin has been playing Divx use Windows MCE 2005. Don't think even that is a supported function, but he must have it working.


Thanks for the advice. I'm basically looking for a cheap and simple way of watching divx, mpeg and avi files on my TV, and while using the tivo would definitely be cheap, it does seem like more hassle than it's worth with all the converting, transferring, etc. A modded xbox sounds cool, but those are kind of pricey, aren't they? As far as windows MCE, I really don't know anything about that, would that requre having a computer sitting next to my TV?

(guess it wouldn't let me post until I took that link out of yours, since I'm new  )


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## greg_burns

mogdor said:


> A modded xbox sounds cool, but those are kind of pricey, aren't they? As far as windows MCE, I really don't know anything about that, would that requre having a computer sitting next to my TV?


I suppose if you bought a pre-modded xbox, then yeah. But you can always pickup a used xbox and a $35 mod chip and do it yourself. It is quite doable.

Yes, Windows MCE would require a computer connected to your TV. Unless you had a Media Extender . XBOX 360 is going to have that feature built-in. (but not sure about the Divx compatibility).

Just throwing out some ideas.

As far as networked Divx DVD players go, the AVeL LinkPlayer is on my short list. :up:


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## Justin Thyme

Also check out Buffalo LinkTheater. Good articles for the LP2 and LT on avsforums.com. I think these go for about $250 periodicially on the discount internet sites. I hear the UI's for both is a little icky, but hey with an integrated divx dvd player, not bad.


----------



## mogdor

Yeah, those network dvd players are pretty cool, but unfortunately out of my price range. I was thinking more along the lines of the Philips DVP642. I've been reading about it and it supposedly plays most video formats you throw at it, that way I can just burn whatever I have to dvd and pop it in without having to do all that annoying converting. The downside is the philips doesn't support DTS audio, so I'd have 2 DVD players cluttering up my entertainment center. Maybe tivo will be more divx/avi friendly in the future. Oh well, guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.


----------



## SMWinnie

(Sorry if I missed this in-thread.)

I've been able to transfer a file from my PC using 7.2 and 2.2. Picture looks terrific.

Is there a way to flag the transferred show as KUID? I presume TiVo will delete suggestions before a transfered MPEG, but there are some things I would like to keep on the TiVo long-term.

Great timing, btw. We had a birthday party for our 4-year-old and ran DV-to-MPEG-to-TiVo of a preschool function that most of the guests had been at. Reaction from the kids was, "Oooh! That's me!" Reaction from the parents was, "Oooh! That's cute!" Reaction from the TiVo-savvy parents was, "Oooh! How the heck did you get that on your TiVo?"


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## rjmitche

SMWinnie said:


> Is there a way to flag the transferred show as KUID? I presume TiVo will delete suggestions before a transfered MPEG, but there are some things I would like to keep on the TiVo long-term.


I have the same question. I'm able to modify the "Keep until..." info on a .tivo file that I transfer (back) to the TiVo but, if I try to change the "Keep until..." info for .mpg file on the TiVo, I get the message:

*There was an error*
Your request could not be processed. Please try again. (Message #86).​


----------



## oodie

rjmitche said:


> I have the same question. I'm able to modify the "Keep until..." info on a .tivo file that I transfer (back) to the TiVo but, if I try to change the "Keep until..." info for .mpg file on the TiVo, I get the message:
> 
> *There was an error*
> Your request could not be processed. Please try again. (Message #86).​


I haven't had any problems doing what you describe. I have noticed some weirdness with the transferred files though. For example, while playing a .mpg press pause and then reverse frame skip ~3 three times. On my Tivo, the video signal will disappear after about 4 seconds.


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## oodie

Justin Thyme said:


> 1) use IFO mode,
> 2) on the right hand tab, click on stream processing tab.
> 3) check the box to extract streams
> 4) uncheck the streams you don't want.
> 5) click Radio button Demux.
> 6) Now click the icon to run the decrypt.
> 
> I am supposed to be generating a .ac3 file here, but this is not happening for some reason. As a placeholder, I use graphedit to output the AC3 stream to an ac3 file called "audio.ac3".


It is seems to be working for me. Make sure that you set the radio button to 'Demux' for both the video and audio streams; based on you procedure, I don't think you are doing this?


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## Re-Hash

mogdor said:


> I'm basically looking for a cheap and simple way of watching divx, mpeg and avi files on my TV


I have a Norcent DP 220 and it plays DivX and pretty much anything else I throw at it. Got it online for about $40. Usually gets better reviews than the Philips and Lite-On players (I also have a Lite-On that I paid $150 way back and the Norcent does a better job for DivX).
link to Norcent DP 220 at Videohelp.com


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## Re-Hash

Justin Thyme said:


> The following problem can occur if you rip a 16:9 aspect ratio show to mpeg2.


So are you saying the problem is only with "anamorphic" DVDs (ones that are native 16:9) and "matte" & standard 4:3 are ok?


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## Justin Thyme

oodie said:


> Make sure that you set the radio button to 'Demux' for both the video and audio streams; based on you procedure, I don't think you are doing this?


Doh! Thought that demux radio button was global for every stream.

Thanks very much.


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## Justin Thyme

Re-Hash said:


> So are you saying the problem is only with "anamorphic" DVDs (ones that are native 16:9) and "matte" & standard 4:3 are ok?


Yeah, if you have a 4:3 video, then there is no such problem.

Technically, I think the use of the word anamorphic means that you are storing with one aspect ratio, then stetching and or squeezing to another. For example, DVD Mpegs are 720x480, ratio 1.5:1 wide screens are 16:9, ratio 1.77:1, and normal televisions are 4:3 or ratio 1.33:1. The old technique was to always take a 16:9 and insert black bars above and below to fit on a 4X3 (letterboxing). YOu could zoom in on it with a widescreen TV, but there was a huge loss of resolution. Nowdays, if a disk is labelled anamorphic, then it will do the old technique if your DVD player knows that you have a 4x3 set. But if it knows you have a widescreen, it will send the TV a 720x480 image, and tell the TV it is a 16:9 anamorphc image. The anamorphic aware tv will then stretch it horizontally to fit the 1.77:1 aspect ratio.

So what I am doing with the 4x3 dvdpatch step is a manual anamorphic procedure. Apparently Tivo only will output 4x3. Fine. We lie to the Mpeg- tell it we are 4x3, so Tivo shoots the whole signal into its 4x3 output box without any right clipping. Great. Now we have the whole signal, and all we have to do is use our widescreen TV to stretch it back to the correct resolution using the aspect button on our remote. It would be nice if it did it automagically like DVD tell TVs to do with anamorphic disks, but it looks like we'll have to wait until the next Tivo model to do it for us..


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## HDTiVo

Has anyone looked at the *audio rates * the SA2 will accept? The Support page only specifies mp2, without sample or bitrate ranges.

I transcoded an AVI ([email protected]) which defaulted to [email protected] (yes it was mp2). This MPEG "played" without sound and with a jerky motion.

When I transcode the same file (and other things) using either [email protected] or [email protected], they work fine. These are the only rates I have "tested" so far.

-------

BTW, I see no differences whether I specify 29.97 frame rate or default to 30fps in my transcodes, depsite the "warning" on the Support page. Gotta try 24 and 15 when I get the chance.


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## HDTiVo

Justin Thyme said:


> Yeah, if you have a 4:3 video, then there is no such problem.
> 
> Technically, I think the use of the word anamorphic means that you are storing with one aspect ratio, then stetching and or squeezing to another. For example, DVD Mpegs are 720x480, ratio 1.5:1 wide screens are 16:9, ratio 1.77:1, and normal televisions are 4:3 or ratio 1.33:1. The old technique was to always take a 16:9 and insert black bars above and below to fit on a 4X3 (letterboxing). YOu could zoom in on it with a widescreen TV, but there was a huge loss of resolution. Nowdays, if a disk is labelled anamorphic, then it will do the old technique if your DVD player knows that you have a 4x3 set. But if it knows you have a widescreen, it will send the TV a 720x480 image, and tell the TV it is a 16:9 anamorphc image. The anamorphic aware tv will then stretch it horizontally to fit the 1.77:1 aspect ratio.
> 
> So what I am doing with the 4x3 dvdpatch step is a manual anamorphic procedure. Apparently Tivo only will output 4x3. Fine. We lie to the Mpeg- tell it we are 4x3, so Tivo shoots the whole signal into its 4x3 output box without any right clipping. Great. Now we have the whole signal, and all we have to do is use our widescreen TV to stretch it back to the correct resolution using the aspect button on our remote. It would be nice if it did it automagically like DVD tell TVs to do with anamorphic disks, but it looks like we'll have to wait until the next Tivo model to do it for us..


So what exactly does the 16x9 setting do if you choose it on the TiVo; apparently you are finding it does not do what a DVD player does.


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## Justin Thyme

HDTiVo said:


> So what exactly does the 16x9 setting do if you choose it on the TiVo; apparently you are finding it does not do what a DVD player does.


On my Toshiba dvd player-recorder, it seems to only have affect on the dvd playing functions.

This contradicts what the support page (linked to in the OP) states.

Maybe I am doing something wrong- I have 16:9 set, component out, progressive.

Try it yourself on any 16:9 content- I think you's see what I saw. I tried a Toshiba RX-20 on a Sony HD tube TV. I didn't try the 540 that is hooked to the Hitachi Plasma HDTV, but don't see any reason to suppose it would handle the 16:9 case better than the 560.

(I assume that "560" is an accepted generic reference for any DVD recorder Tivo- Humax or Toshiba. Is that not the case?)


----------



## HDTiVo

The 16x9 setting is available on non-DVDTiVoes, so one would expect it has more effect than just for playing DVDs on a DVDTiVo.

The logical assumption is that setting 16x9 would have the TiVo play an anamorphic MPEG in its original appearance (4x3 with full 480 lines looking vertically squeezed) so a widescreen TV would automatically detect it and stretch it to 16x9, thereby appearing correctly on the widescreen TV with all 480 lines of resolution.

Alternatively the 4x3 setting should cause the TiVo to form a letterbox around and anamorphic MPEG so the output is 4x3 with about 360 lines of the resolution being the video appearing letterboxed at 16x9 on a 4x3 TV with the video across the entire screen, and the top and bottom black.

The above behavior is how a DVD player works. I have not gotten around to anamorphic content, but it sounds like people are saying TiVo is not handling content the way a DVD player would. That leaves a mystery about what these setting do.


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## Justin Thyme

The 16:9 bug with TivoBack'd Mpeg2's that I was discussing does not affect the 540 or 240 series Tivos, and you should not alter them with the patching program I mentioned. They will display just fine on your widescreen or 4:3 apect TV. What it will do on a 4:3 is letterbox the display. On a 16:9 it displays correctly without the letterbox (anamorphic mode horizontal stretch). 

This problem affects the Toshiba RX-20 DVD burner Tivo. I may well affect the Humax DVD burner. Possibly it will affect the DVD Player Tivos. If anyone tests a 16:9 mpeg with any of these, let me know whether it did or didn't work properly, and if the workaround fixed it for you.

I confirmed this behavior (rightmost material croped from 16:9 image) on both a Sony Tube HDTV, and a Hitachi Plasma HDTV. The above mentioned workaround of patching the Mpeg2 file to state it is a 4:3 works on both displays.


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## Re-Hash

Justin Thyme said:


> The 16:9 bug with TivoBack'd Mpeg2's that I was discussing does not affect the 540 or 240 series Tivos


I have a 540 and had this bug, I think. The DVD has a 16:9 anamorphic source. I used DVD Shrink to get a chapter off the DVD to test. The picture displayed as 1/4 section of the full size and had some strange overlap/interlace issues. Anyway, using DVDPatcher to set the aspect ratio to 4:3 fixed the problem (although the image was fully stretched with no letterboxing after that). The attached image is the problem, the next post will have the fixed version.


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## Re-Hash

here's what it looked like after I used DVDPatcher to set the aspect ratio to 4:3


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## rjmitche

Re-Hash said:


> I have a 540 and had this bug, I think. The source was a 16:9 anamorphic source. I used DVD Shrink to get a chapter off the DVD to test. The picture displayed as 1/4 section of the full size and had some overlap/interlace issues. Anyway, using DVDPatcher to set the aspect ratio to 4:3 fixed the problem (although the image was fully stretched with no letterboxing after that).


I was just about to post the same thing (and desperately trying to figure out how to describe the picture - thanks for attaching the image!). I also have a 540 and the few DVDs I tried this on all appeared as you describe on my TV (4:3). That is, until I tried a DVD that had both widescreen and fullscreen versions of the movie. I went through the process with the fullscreen version and it appeard just fine on the TV. I then went back to the first set (all widescreen) and used DVDPatcher to set the aspect ratio to 4:3 and now they play via the TiVo. As you mentioned, it is in "fullscreen" mode rather than "letterbox" mode. I'd probably rather have them be in letterbox mode (that's how I typically watch DVDs on my 4:3 TV). Given that, I'd be interested to know if anyone knows how to take mpg file that is 16:9 and convert it to 4:3 letterbox.

So, I now know how to get this to work although, given the effort and transfer speed, I'll probably stick to just popping the DVD into the player for now.


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## Re-Hash

rjmitche said:


> I'll probably stick to just popping the DVD into the player for now.


Heheh... yeah, this is just an academic exercise for the most part (for me, anyway).


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## TechDreamer

Thanks for the picture Re-Hash! I though I was the only one with this problem. I used Shrink and got that picture but the sound was perfect.


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## Justin Thyme

I get images like #1 when I change the vertical number of lines. If you still have the mpeg with the same header when #1 was generated, could you let me know what the patcher says the vertical number of lines, and what the Pal/Ntsc setting is? 

As to the purpose of all this, this sort of information is useful to guys writing programs that automagically generate the correct format Mpeg2 files from tons and tons of very interesting Video files that are floating around on the net. 

I'd like to be able to replicate #1 on my 540 if I could... You don't happen to have any Disney DVDs on you that you can replicate this on?  Because I have about a hundred of those so chances are I would have it.


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## TechDreamer

That sucks that using DVD Patcher makes the Tivo display non letterbox. I hope there is a solution for this problem. I sometimes watch letterbox DVD's zoomed in a little, but not all the way to 4:3.


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## Justin Thyme

Does this happen on every 16:9 movie that you guys have been putting through DVD-Shrink? If not, is it correlated with certain studios?


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## HDTiVo

Justin Thyme said:


> The 16:9 bug with TivoBack'd Mpeg2's that I was discussing does not affect the 540 or 240 series Tivos, and you should not alter them with the patching program I mentioned. They will display just fine on your widescreen or 4:3 apect TV. What it will do on a 4:3 is letterbox the display. On a 16:9 it displays correctly without the letterbox (anamorphic mode horizontal stretch).
> 
> This problem affects the Toshiba RX-20 DVD burner Tivo. I may well affect the Humax DVD burner. Possibly it will affect the DVD Player Tivos. If anyone tests a 16:9 mpeg with any of these, let me know whether it did or didn't work properly, and if the workaround fixed it for you.
> 
> I confirmed this behavior (rightmost material croped from 16:9 image) on both a Sony Tube HDTV, and a Hitachi Plasma HDTV. The above mentioned workaround of patching the Mpeg2 file to state it is a 4:3 works on both displays.


I went through all the permutations on a 240 and found that indeed *there is no bug (on the 240)*; the TiVo behaves just like a DVD player does with the 16x9/4x3 settings and anamorphic/non-anamorphic content. All well and good.

Everyone should *be careful when transcoding material to properly specify the aspect ratio* in your transcode program so your TiVo will display your MPEGs correctly.


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## Re-Hash

Justin Thyme said:


> If you still have the mpeg with the same header when #1 was generated, could you let me know what the patcher says the vertical number of lines, and what the Pal/Ntsc setting is?


720x480 16:9 29.97fps (NTSC) Bitrate 9800000
I will try some other discs and see if it is consistent.


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## HDTiVo

Justin Thyme said:


> Does this happen on every 16:9 movie that you guys have been putting through DVD-Shrink? If not, is it correlated with certain studios?


I am confident that *Shrink properly preserves the aspect ratio header * info, so using that program to "transcode" material should not present a problem.*(240)*

For example if you "reauthor" to put an entire movie into one large VOB file the original's 4x3 or 16x9 ratio will be preserved in the output VOB. Changing the extension to .mpg will allow you to play it properly on the TiVo (240 at least.)

A couple of tips:
1. I found keeping more than one audio stream and ANY subpictures in the output VOB can cause problems. Uncheck all streams but the ONE audio you want.

2. I had no trouble keeping a DD5.1(AC3) stream as it played fine on the 240


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## Re-Hash

HDTiVo said:


> 1. I found keeping more than one audio stream and ANY subpictures in the output VOB can cause problems. Uncheck all streams but the ONE audio you want.


I kept just the 5.1 AC3 audio stream and no subtitles. And DVD Shrink did indeed keep the aspect ratio correct at 16:9 (which I changed to 4:3).


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## Re-Hash

Re-Hash said:


> The picture displayed as 1/4 section of the full size and had some strange overlap/interlace issues.


OK, this issue with the 16x9 anamorphic goes away on my 540 if you set the TiVo 'video->aspect ratio' options to 'widescreen - 16x9 capable' - even if you don't have a 16x9 display. You still have the 'stretching' issue (16x9 'stretched' to 4x3 aspect ratio), which is a non-issue if your 4x3 TV has a 16x9 compatible mode, which will squash the picture the necessary amount.

BTW, I did go back and then patch the MPG to 4:3 with DVD Patcher, thinking it might solve the stretching problem, but it ends up looking the same either way now.


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## HDTiVo

HDTiVo said:


> Has anyone looked at the *audio rates * the SA2 will accept? The Support page only specifies mp2, without sample or bitrate ranges.
> 
> I transcoded an AVI ([email protected]) which defaulted to [email protected] (yes it was mp2). This MPEG "played" without sound and with a jerky motion.
> 
> When I transcode the same file (and other things) using either [email protected] or [email protected], they work fine. These are the only rates I have "tested" so far.
> 
> -------
> 
> BTW, I see no differences whether I specify 29.97 frame rate or default to 30fps in my transcodes, depsite the "warning" on the Support page. Gotta try 24 and 15 when I get the chance.


24fps played back with some jerkiness and my transcoder didn't support 15fps. I'm sticking with 30fps.

Haven't done the audio stuff yet.


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## HDTiVo

Re-Hash said:


> OK, this issue with the 16x9 anamorphic goes away on my 540 if you set the TiVo 'video->aspect ratio' options to 'widescreen - 16x9 capable' - even if you don't have a 16x9 display. You still have the 'stretching' issue (16x9 'stretched' to 4x3 aspect ratio), which is a non-issue if your 4x3 TV has a 16x9 compatible mode, which will squash the picture the necessary amount.
> 
> BTW, I did go back and then patch the MPG to 4:3 with DVD Patcher, thinking it might solve the stretching problem, but it ends up looking the same either way now.


Turning on the TiVo 16x9 mode setting causes the video (either 16x9 or 4x3) to be passed to the TiVo's outputs without modification. That's why you see what you see there; that's actually as it should be when things work properly.

In the TiVo 4x3 mode, the TiVo is supposed to letterbox a 16x9 video to its outputs and pass a 4x3 video without modification to its outputs.

Sounds like you are finding the 540 screws up the letterboxing of 16x9 video output when the 540 is in 4x3 mode.


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## bhaas

gonzotek said:


> I'm pretty confident that .tivo will be supported. Besides, if they open up a door to sending mpeg content to the TiVo, but not the previously recorded content in .tivo files, where will most people get most of their content? MPEG-2 files don't exactly fall off trees . That'd be a little like Apple selling iTunes music that can't be played on the buyer 's iPod.


ahh, but the tivo site SPECIFICALLY says the feature is for watching your personal videos...a la 'originated from your camcorder.' Which usually is mpeg2, or is pretty easily converted to it.

Think of it as just like watching you vaction pics via HMO...only now those vacation pics are your vacation videos. My kids will never stop watching them!


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## cwoody222

I couldn't get my own mpeg file to play. But I could get a .tivo file to play. Big deal, though - I could'd just watched that file on my TiVo directly.


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## Re-Hash

HDTiVo said:


> In the TiVo 4x3 mode, the TiVo is supposed to letterbox a 16x9 video to its outputs and pass a 4x3 video without modification to its outputs.
> 
> Sounds like you are finding the 540 screws up the letterboxing of 16x9 video output when the 540 is in 4x3 mode.


Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Dunno if this is something that TiVo would care to know about, since I doubt they intended to support VOBs directly (well, almost directly).


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## pcbguy

I have some video that has NTSC Film framerate 23.976. Is there anyway to convert that to 29.97 fps. Thanks.


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## Re-Hash

pcbguy said:


> I have some video that has NTSC Film framerate 23.976. Is there anyway to convert that to 29.97 fps. Thanks.


What does the TiVo do/display if you don't change the framerate?

Did you try DVD Patcher? It has a place to change the framerate, as well as other stuff (like the aspect ratio). I'd try that first, and see what happens.

Here is a link to convert 23.976 FPS into DVD PAL 25 FPS which should also work for 29.97fps.


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## pcbguy

I didn't know if it could be done. I can understand how to remove frames per second but didn't know if it was possible to add frames per second. I will try that when I get home. Thank you.


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## Re-Hash

pcbguy said:


> I didn't know if it could be done. I can understand how to remove frames per second but didn't know if it was possible to add frames per second. I will try that when I get home. Thank you.


I think the typical 23.976 to 29.97 conversion just adds a duplicate frame in every fourth frame (or something like that) to adjust the FPS.


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## HDTiVo

pcbguy said:


> I have some video that has NTSC Film framerate 23.976. Is there anyway to convert that to 29.97 fps. Thanks.


Contrary to what I said earlier in some thread, I am getting *excellent results out of DVD VOBs transcoded to 23.98fps. Motion looks a lot smoother * than keeping it at 30fps.

I am using FFMPEG and by default it detects that the original file comes from a film source and re-encodes the MPEG-2 at 23.98fps; even though the VOB is 29.97fps, the original material was 23.98 (a movie)

Anyway, I have stopped forcing a 30 or 29.97 frame rate.


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## HDTiVo

Re-Hash said:


> Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Dunno if this is something that TiVo would care to know about, since I doubt they intended to support VOBs directly (well, almost directly).


They better care.

This is not a VOB issue. It is an anamorphic issue; such content can come from various places. They obviously intended to support this since they 1. seem to have gotten it right on the 240, and 2. put in the setting in the first place, and 3. the support page mentions 16:9 as valid.

Maybe what they meant on the support page by 4:3 preferred is that only some TiVoes would handle 16:9. Just kidding...


----------



## juanian

I can't wait to try transferring files to my TiVo myself.

1: As far as transferring .TiVo files back to a TiVo, what are the restrictions -- can it be transferred back to any TiVo, only a TiVo with the same MAK, or only the TiVo that it came from?

2: Is there a way to transfer a file into a TiVo without using TiVo Desktop (like you can use the web interface to transfer *out* of a TiVo)?

Thanks


----------



## pcbguy

I transferred a video at 23.976 and it would go and stop go and stop. There was also no audio. Pretty sure that is another problem. Gonna try a few more things.


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## HDTiVo

On further analysis, I have to eat some crow on the 23.98fps thing. It does look great, but there are problems like, AFTER the transfer completes, the TiVo shows the green show length bar much shorter than the actual movie (up until xfer completion the bar is correct.) Now the movie is all there, and will keep playing but the bar never passes the artificially early end. Also, I can't do any skip or FF without returning to the beginning.

If I transcode a VOB to MPEG-2 @ 29.97fps, the motion is jerky, like the 3:2 frame insertion is causing this, but the VOB is 29.97fps to begin with; whereas @24fps motion is smooth.

I am being careful in all tests to use "approved" resolutions (720x480) and bitrates.

Now, if I just use SHRINK, the output VOB is 29.97fps and, after renaming to .mpg, plays smoothly (like my 23.98fps MPEG-2s.) So I guess I am missing something in the manual transcodes (still using FFMPEG command line.)


----------



## sixseven

HDTiVo said:


> Sounds like you are finding the 540 screws up the letterboxing of 16x9 video output when the 540 is in 4x3 mode.


I can confirm this on my 540.


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## azitnay

cwoody222 said:


> I couldn't get my own mpeg file to play. But I could get a .tivo file to play. Big deal, though - I could'd just watched that file on my TiVo directly.


One of the main points of all this is to be able to offload TiVo'ed content onto a computer for virtually unlimited storage (being that it's much more user-friendly for the average person to add storage to a computer than it is to upgrade a TiVo hard drive), and then be able to get it back onto the TiVo eventually.

Drew


----------



## azitnay

juanian said:


> 1: As far as transferring .TiVo files back to a TiVo, what are the restrictions -- can it be transferred back to any TiVo, only a TiVo with the same MAK, or only the TiVo that it came from?


Only a TiVo with the same MAK... Same as MRV.



juanian said:


> 2: Is there a way to transfer a file into a TiVo without using TiVo Desktop (like you can use the web interface to transfer *out* of a TiVo)?


There's no known way with the web interface, but third-party apps can certainly add their own functionality. Galleon already has.

Drew


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## parzec

I also confirm the 540 inability to properly deal with widescreen MPEGs -- I also have a 240 on my network which plays the MPEGs correctly whereas the 540 does not. Perhaps this bug should be listed in the FAQ.

Also can confirm that the 540 can't transfer in real time,resulting in stutter play, whereas the 240 is faster than real time.


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## HDTiVo

parzec said:


> Also can confirm that the 540 can't transfer in real time,resulting in stutter play, whereas the 240 is faster than real time.


I have not carefully measured, but I see around 5mbps (back) transfer on the 240. My network has typically gotten the high end of MRV/TTG speeds reported by others.


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## MikeMar

azitnay said:


> One of the main points of all this is to be able to offload TiVo'ed content onto a computer for virtually unlimited storage (being that it's much more user-friendly for the average person to add storage to a computer than it is to upgrade a TiVo hard drive), and then be able to get it back onto the TiVo eventually.
> 
> Drew


This is exactly what I use it for. I have a computer with about 500 gig on it, so i just dump all the shows i want onto it, and then just pop them onto my TiVo when i want to watch them

Really good for me since I have a 40 hour Tivo


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## oodie

HDTiVo said:


> If I transcode a VOB to MPEG-2 @ 29.97fps, the motion is jerky, like the 3:2 frame insertion is causing this, but the VOB is 29.97fps to begin with; whereas @24fps motion is smooth.
> 
> I am being careful in all tests to use "approved" resolutions (720x480) and bitrates.
> 
> Now, if I just use SHRINK, the output VOB is 29.97fps and, after renaming to .mpg, plays smoothly (like my 23.98fps MPEG-2s.) So I guess I am missing something in the manual transcodes (still using FFMPEG command line.)


I have noticed the same thing, where when panning there will be a slight gerkinesss. I am also using FFMPEG (GUI4FFMEG). On some DVD's, when using the Shrink method, the video vibrates or jitters; is this due to too-high of a bitrate? On these DVDs, I then coverted the VOB file with FFMPEG, which fixes the jitter but causes the jerkiness during panning.

Also, I have noticed that on some videos the 1X FF doesn't work (it will play at normal speed without sound). I have not yet correlated this with a characterstic of the MPG file though.

Final question. When using Shrink to rip the DVD and choosing to compresss the video, will results in a reduction of the bit rate, correct? I still notice the vibrating when I do this.


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## Justin Thyme

It looks like if you run into the problem with 16:9 mpegs, you only have to do a reencoding if you have a 4x3 set that doesn't have a 16X9 compatible mode. In all other situations, worst case is you patch the first header in the mpeg and you are done in seconds.

Table attached indicates what remedy to use in which situation. (second to last column: F= Fix required. U=Tivo setting change needed, X= no tivo problem.)

Lucky ones are the 240 owners- it seems to handle all configurations with 16:9 megs just dandy. 


(Technical FYI- the "aspect" ratio indicated in the Mpeg header is the pixel aspect ratio, not the data frame aspect ratio. My amature understanding is that there is no relationship between this settting and the horizontal or vertical number of lines.)


----------



## rjmitche

Justin Thyme said:


> It looks like if you run into the problem with 16:9 mpegs, you only have to do a reencoding if you have a 4x3 set that doesn't have a 16X9 compatible mode. In all other situations, worst case is you patch the first header in the mpeg and you are done in seconds.


Looks like I fall into your "worst case" scenario here. Your table indicates that I need to _"convert rescaled with letterbox bars inserted, 4x3 aspect ratio"_. What is the best/easiest way to accomplish this?

(Hmmm... maybe I just need to go out and buy a new TV!)


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## Justin Thyme

This general procedure and set of modules can be adapted for letterboxing many different kinds of video. It also can be used for downsizing a video so that it "streams" to your Tivo without any halts. DVD size video (720x480) can be played in streaming mode only by 240 Tivos (noticing a pattern here?), so folks with other Tivos that want real time may be interested in this technique as well. For the particular bug discussed, it is only  necessary if you have a "dumb" SD set with a Toshiba Tivo, or a 54000x0 Tivo trying to play a 16:9 mpeg file.

You can accomplish this with graphedit, but it's going to get a bit messy- you'll have to install some codecs, possibly buy one (the ones I have I bought, but I recall using another free DirectShow module that will do the image manipulation portion and I probably mentioned it in a note back in March or April. All other modules have free versions as well. I prefer moonlight ones because of their features, but Free is a very nice feature too. Basically you just need something that will squeeze the image vertically and insert the black bars.

This heavy lifting work is done by an image manipulation module- everything else is housekeeping- separating the streams (demuxing), decoding them into something the image manipulator can manipulate, reencoding the video back, then mixing the streams back (muxer), then writing the file.

Where to load graphedit and some more methodical explanation of how to do things may be found in this thread.

The attached example graph "graphedit.png" uses modules from Moonlight. The image module is included with one of the Moonlight trial software products here . I can't remember which- maybe one stop compressor. It may also be downloaded from http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Moonlight_Scalar_DirectShow_Filter.htm Anyhow the way they are all hitched up is in the attached screen shots. To build, you drag drop your input file, then add graph filters- menu item graph.insert filters.Directshow Filters.

My box "Output file" is Moonlight filter Dumpos. When you insert this one, it will present a file dialog and you type in the output file name you'd like. The only other trick to know is that in the M71 muxer you must make sure you change it from transport stream to program stream. Also, you need to right click program stream and insert an additional stream. Then dismiss the dialog and refresh the screen. Otherwise you will only have one input pin and wonder how I got the second pin to send the audio over. I generally set the Dumpos object to crop files at 30000 ms, so that I can run quick tests. When you are good to go, hit the green arrow run key. When output file fills up, hit stop and see how it looks on the tivo. Sometimes you get memory errors on the second run. Just save your .GRf file and reload and you'll be ok.

This is definitely not for civilians, but if there are a lot of docs on how to use graphedit and you don't have to especially understand what is going on underneath the hood in order to get it to do useful things for you.

I have included the dialogs for some of the tricky objects. For some reason the image preparator calls the black bars an "appendix". Anyway, the calculation here is that our data is 480 lines, so our 4x3 screen width needs 640 dots across which has to correspond to the 16 in the 16:9 proportion, with the height being the 9, so 9/16 of 640 delivers us 360 line height for our image. So we need 60 lines above and 60 below to bulk us back out to the 480 lines that is required for the Tivo format. If I calculated wrong or you have a different goal- the idea hear is that the resized vertical (360) plus 2 times the black bar "appendix" value (60) has to come out to 480.

Why is the horizontal setting at 720? Aren't other settings ok? Students of this may wonder why I have 720 as my horizontal. The TV is going to stretch this or squeeze the horizontal line to whatever fits, so all you are really saying here is what your compression vs quality setting is. In my case, the original was 720, so I left the data as it was. But if I wanted a an mpeg that streamed to a 540 in real time, then 480 would have been a good choice. As the OP link'd Tivo article stated, this value can be as low as 352. It states legal values are 352, 480, 544, 704 & 720. Most people's Tivo's don't record at higher than 480. If you don't see the difference on your TV, make it lower- you will conserve space, and you will be able to play back in "streaming" mode without breaks.

Anyhow, for those that are trying to get 16:9 mpegs to play on their SDTV, what you will wind up with after running a correctly configured graph is a file that will play properly if you put your 540 Tivo in 16:9 mode. Folks with a DVD burner Tivo with a "dumb" SD TV should set the aspect ratio to 4x3 on the Image preparator dialog and they will be set. All those without dumb SD sets or with 240 Tivos don't need to be reading this note.

A similar procedure could be used for letterboxing 2.25:1 content into 16:9 windows, though this sort of transformation is already done for you on so called "anamorphic" DVDs for those ultra wide aspect ratios.

As an efficiency measure, if you move the input file to a processing folder, and set the output file to the same folder, you only have to perform the error prone authoring of the grf file once. There are probably some programs that will let you automate the moving files in, renaming them, running graphedit on them, then moving the outputfile out. I don't have any real need for such batch operations but there are programs that allow you do create such things.

Hopefully you won't have too long a wait before Santa brings you a TV or writes you a freeware program that makes this more painless.

Good luck.

Note- the m71 muxer filter and possibly the moonlight encoder that I use will display a banner on the video until it is paid for. Many other muxer/demuxers will work just fine, and might be on your machine already because you have a video application like Sonic MyDVD, Ulead MovieMaker, or Nero. For the image processing module, if you look in the graphedit insert modules pick list under directshow filters, anything that says scaler, scalar [sic], bilinear, bicubic or has image in the name might help you. The trouble is that some scale, but don't add borders. If the scaler gives you a choice for best results, use "simple" or "bilinear" for downsizing, and "precise" or "Bicubic for upscaling. Just found more info on this at this site that may help with other graphedit techniques. Hang with it- you'll get a graph that works. There are definately free filters out there that will the same job. If anyone gets a set working that is free and doesn't display banners, I'm sure that many folks here would appreciate your posting them here.


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## MikeMar

Love this Reverse TTG!

I've been bittorrenting Twin Peaks Season 2 for like 2 months (5.5 gig at 2 k/sec about = long time) and now i just converted .avi to .mpg and transfered the first few eps to the TiVo and now I can watch them on TV, VERY happy!


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## cwoody222

Twin Peaks season 2? I'm very jealous! (I've got them on VHS but that's it and I don't have a VCR connected to my TV)

What program did you use to convert to .avi to .mpg that TiVo could play?


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## MikeMar

I'll have to look at home, it was some trial thing, you can convert avi to mpg or wmv and all the other way around wmv to avi or mpg etc, or vob's and all that stuff.

I have never seen Season 2, and this was the only way I could get it! damn you not releasing the dvd's!


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## datlev

Looks like I have the same issues with 16x9 mpg DVD content on my Humax DVD Recorder (595) Tivo. I just upgraded to 7.2 last night.

The artifacts seen when playing 16x9 Mpg files on the Tivo (regardless of Tivo's Video Setting of 4:3 or 16:9) are more like a completely out of sync video rather than cropping.

But in any case, the same resolution applies (DVDPatcher to modify to first header of the file to lie to Tivo that this is a 4:3 works great) Thanks for doing this investigation, as I was prepared to use Nero to change my DVD's to 4:3, but much prefer having native 16:9.

Still waiting for the 7.2 update for my 240 series Tivo.

-Datlev


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## justmike

You should be able to do the same trick with IfoEdit.


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## dick_pfister

HDTiVo said:


> One thing you may not want to "try at home."
> 
> BTW I am getting out of spec mpegs to play properly on the 7.2 . The one that didn't work was ridiculously out of spec.
> 
> Not very scientific, but there's some monkeying to do ahead.


I got some to work, but they looked like crap. I took a few files and converted them to mpeg2 at 352x240 with a 750kbit CBR and MP2 @ 128 kbit. These are 4:3 files.

They play, but in a herky-jerky fashion with a pause every few seconds. The Tivo peeps say that the bitrate should be between 1000 and 8000 kbit. As the picture quality goes, the resolution looked just fine. So I don't know if the jerky nature of the clip was due to the bitrate, resolution, or both.

But in any case, they play, but not well. This is on a 540 series Tivo.

I also tried a 16:9 ratio convertion. That looked like a mess. The picture was fubar.

As for speed goes, it's slow on the wireless. I have a D-Link 802.11b adapter on Tivo, and it's the only wireless device on the network. The PC->Tivo sends at about 370 kilobytes per second. Tivo->PC goes about 340-350 kilobytes per second. That's not bad for wireless, however. Still a bit shy of the 700-800 kilobytes per second real-life max for a 10mbit ethernet connection, however.


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## skillsrhodes

It looks fantastic! I was really shocked by the picture quality from a few DVD's that I had pre-Shrunk. But I'm having a few problems.

When I create my vob's from DVD-Shrink I'm also getting .bup and .ifo, does that matter? And also, my Tivo only appears willing to transfer the first minute of a VOB. But that first minute is beautiful. And since my HTPC just died Tivo might actually replace it.

thanks

skills


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## davezatz

skillsrhodes said:


> It looks fantastic! I was really shocked by the picture quality from a few DVD's that I had pre-Shrunk. But I'm having a few problems.
> 
> When I create my vob's from DVD-Shrink I'm also getting .bup and .ifo, does that matter? And also, my Tivo only appears willing to transfer the first minute of a VOB. But that first minute is beautiful. And since my HTPC just died Tivo might actually replace it.


I'm in the same boat when using DVD Shrink... though my PC transfers and plays 2 minutes of content. I'm wondering what in the MPEG is upsetting the Tivo - I suspect the meta data for length is missing or incorrect. I'm going to futz around with some of the settings and see if I can improve my results.

FYI I've been ignoring the .bup and .ifo files and my picture and sound quality for those first two minutes is also very good.

EDIT: I just downloaded DVD Patcher (very slick tool by the way!) and the headers appear correct. Though I did notice Justin Thyme is mentioning 720x480 content will not _stream_ to certain Tivo's such as my Toshiba. I'm wondering if this is the issue and I wonder if I can copy the flick (as in *not* streaming) successfully.


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## morac

I found out that my TiVo will play 324x240 MPG2 format which isn't listed as valid on TiVo's site. When Sonic decided to create a file in that format I figured I'd give it a try. This means that SVCD format will work.


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## ashu

Isn't SVCD 480x480? 320x240 sounds like VCD. And that IS a good find - smaller files, and no real noticeable difference if well encoded, and using an SD TV!


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## gonzotek

davezatz said:


> I'm in the same boat when using DVD Shrink... though my PC transfers and plays 2 minutes of content. I'm wondering what in the MPEG is upsetting the Tivo - I suspect the meta data for length is missing or incorrect. I'm going to futz around with some of the settings and see if I can improve my results.
> 
> FYI I've been ignoring the .bup and .ifo files and my picture and sound quality for those first two minutes is also very good.
> 
> EDIT: I just downloaded DVD Patcher (very slick tool by the way!) and the headers appear correct. Though I did notice Justin Thyme is mentioning 720x480 content will not _stream_ to certain Tivo's such as my Toshiba. I'm wondering if this is the issue and I wonder if I can copy the flick (as in *not* streaming) successfully.


The only dvd I've had a problem with so far using dvd-shrink was a certain first episode of a certain 'Stellar Conflicts' 6-part series(), which had an extremely high bitrate(in excess of 9000, solved it by running the file through ffmpeg and specifying a lower bitrate). I'm using the re-author mode, with nothing selected other than the main movie video and 1 audio stream. I'm happily using ac3 with my 240, by the way; it sounds fine fed into my home-theater amplifier. I'm sure that the 'true' 5.1 mix isn't being preserved(since all I've got to work with are the standard L/R audio cables), but it seems that down-mixing to stereo and setting my reciever to dolby stereo mode will still engage all of the speakers, and it still sounds 'like 5.1', even if I know it isn't true 5.1. The user inteface on my dvd player(which is one of those all-in-one dvd/tuner/amplifier dealies) is one of the most frustrating pieces of crap I've ever had to put up with, and I'm quite happy trading off the loss of the audio mix for the convenience of the TiVo UI.


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## skillsrhodes

Got the skinny with DVDShrink....

Open your disc
Go to Re-Author
Drag over the Title you want to conver to VOB
Click on Compression Settings
Make sure there are no subpicture streams selected

voila...

Alternatively, you can select in Preferences > Stream Selections "Disable All Subpicture Except Forced"

This will keep you from having to perform that step. It will also keep you from transferring foreign films with no dubbed option.... sigh....

And you can indeed ignore the bup and ifo

skills


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## tivovito

oodie said:


> I have noticed the same thing, where when panning there will be a slight gerkinesss. I am also using FFMPEG (GUI4FFMEG). On some DVD's, when using the Shrink method, the video vibrates or jitters; is this due to too-high of a bitrate? On these DVDs, I then coverted the VOB file with FFMPEG, which fixes the jitter but causes the jerkiness during panning.
> 
> Also, I have noticed that on some videos the 1X FF doesn't work (it will play at normal speed without sound). I have not yet correlated this with a characterstic of the MPG file though.
> 
> Final question. When using Shrink to rip the DVD and choosing to compresss the video, will results in a reduction of the bit rate, correct? I still notice the vibrating when I do this.


I've also noticed the video jitter problem on Divx files that I've converted to .mpg. Is anyone playing .mpg files with no jitters? If so, how was the .mpg created? Ripping a DVD? Home video? TV Capture?

It's most visible when a title or non-scrolling credit is on the screen.


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## DaddyBC

Using Dvd Encrypter I ripped a VOB off of a DVD. I changed the Extension to mpg and it plays just fine in Windows media player but the player shows the length as 0:00. 

When transferring it to Tivo the transfer starts and ends quickly (3 secs or so).
I can then play the 3 seconds and it looks fine. I am assuming that the 0:00 length shown is causing Tivo to think the mpg is just a small file. 
Would anyone know how I can change the length to show how long the program actually is? Or am I ripping it incorrectly?


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## davezatz

DaddyBC said:


> Would anyone know how I can change the length to show how long the program actually is? Or am I ripping it incorrectly?


I don't know the answers... but I do know I've experienced similar problems with selected discs. I would try another movie or two and see what happens. DVDPatcher will let you view your header info to compare/modify to what you Tivo should be capable of it.

Hopefully one of us will come up with a method/program that works 100% of the time. Anybody?


----------



## blkboy

Ok I've read most of the posts above and I still Have a question. what is the easiest and fastest way to convert avi or wmv files to MPEG-2? I just got TMPGEnc Plus and it does work but it takes over 2 hours to convet a 1 hour avi file. Is there any faster way?


----------



## Re-Hash

davezatz said:


> Hopefully one of us will come up with a method/program that works 100% of the time. Anybody?


If you have a standard def TV, and have the time to transcode, SVCD format seems quite reliable on TiVo. While you are at it, you can force letterboxing (16:9->4:3 letterboxed), subtitles, etc. as well. Something like DVD2SVCD will do this automatically - start the conversion before you go to bed, and it's ready in the morning.

At DVD resolution I can't get the MPEGs (VOBs) to transfer in realtime anyway over WiFi - but at SVCD resolution it's ok.


----------



## Re-Hash

blkboy said:


> I just got TMPGEnc Plus and it does work but it takes over 2 hours to convet a 1 hour avi file. Is there any faster way?


TMPGEnc is probably your best bet. Transcoding is slow; not much you can do about it.


----------



## bidger

I was able to figure out how to do this over the weekend. I tried Nero, but either my version for doing this isn't right or I did it wrong, but either way it was a no go. I was able to do it with WinDVD Creator. I was using .avi files and the conversion was relatively quick for 90+ min. files. The first one I tried was @ SVCD settings, but for some reason that file was split into three parts in My TiVo Recordings. I did a 22 min. file @ DVD-HQ and that transferred and played, but there was some weird occurences during the transfer. I went into one of the 3 parts of the previously transferred files to see if I could delete it there, but I didn't see that option. I went to "Don't Do Anything", which TiVo took literally.  The only button it would respond to was the channel Up/Down so I could surf through the transferred files, but nothing else. 

I waited until the file I was transferring was finished and I pulled the plug on the TiVo. It successfully rebooted and all the files were there. I played the 22 min. file and it played and looked OK. I tried another 90+ min. file, but for whatever reason it quit after about 15 mins. I had to tell TiVo to transfer again and this time it completed. Suffice to say, I did encounter some flakiness with the process. 

I would have to say of all the HMO features I've tried, this is the one I could find the most use for. I was gonna upgrade to a 160G HdD, but this is making me consider stepping it up.


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## HDTiVo

davezatz said:


> I don't know the answers... but I do know I've experienced similar problems with selected discs. I would try another movie or two and see what happens. DVDPatcher will let you view your header info to compare/modify to what you Tivo should be capable of it.
> 
> Hopefully one of us will come up with a method/program that works 100% of the time. Anybody?


In my recent experiences with mpg's that stop transfering early, transcoding the audio to 48KHz at 192kbps (or above) - from other than 48KHz - seems to cure it.


----------



## kbmb

Justin Thyme said:


> OK here is the updated step by step list for the dvd decrypter method of generating an Mpeg from a stubborn dvd- not sure if it is any better than other methods. I am just plugging along seeing how this way works...
> 
> Tools needed:
> DVD decrypter download from Doom9 http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/software.htm
> Mplex.EXE location: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=59028&package_id=55012&release_id=210470
> 
> Using DVD decrypter 3.5.4.0 :
> Go to tools.settings, tab IFO mode options. Set File Splitting to "None"
> 
> 1) use IFO mode,
> 2) on the right hand tab, click on stream processing tab.
> 3) check the box to extract streams
> 4) uncheck the streams you don't want.
> 5) For Each stream, click the stream, then click Radio button Demux.
> 6) Now click the icon to run the decrypt.
> 
> Now for putting the files back together
> 
> mplex -f 3 -O nn -o output.mpg VTS_01_1.M2V VTS_01_1.ac3
> 
> Where nn = the audio offset stated in DVD decrypter's VTS_01 - Stream Information.txt file.
> 
> Previously unresolved problems
> * Problem of AC3 not getting outputed to a VOB was solved. If you get a vob with the ac3 file in it, in step 5 you did not click the demux button for the ac3 stream.
> * 16:9 aspect ratio "anamorphic" Mpegs will not display correctly on certain combinations of Tivos and Televisions. This is generally rare, but if you are affected the solution in nearly all cases is very quick. See this note for table of combinations affected, and the remedies.
> 
> Any suggested corrections? Please PM me.
> 
> Edit 9/2- A) corrections so you won't get ac3 in a vob.
> B) Pointer to remedies for 16:9 mpeg display problems.
> Thanks to Dan for telling us about this approach, Oodie, and other more experienced folks who got me straightenned out on this process.


So I tried this method and it seems to have worked....however, I now have a 9 GB mpeg file. Anyway to trim this down some?

-Kevin


----------



## HDTiVo

http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.jhtml?articleId=170703314

Seagate Acquires Mirra

By Joseph F. Kovar, CRN
7:24 PM EDT Wed. Sep. 14, 2005 
Hard drive giant Seagate Technology expanded its reach into the small business and home storage markets with Wednesday's acquisition of Mirra.

Sunnyvale, Calif.-based Mirra produces the all-in-one Mirra Personal Server, a device which combines an intelligent network appliance, client software, and Web services for remote access of data into a single unit, said Mirra CEO Tom Shea.

By itself, the Mirra Personal Server acts as a backup device for multiple PCs in a small business or home, said Shea. However, with the Web software, users can allow other users access through the Internet to files stored on the server, and they can also specify certain folders for use in file sharing across the Internet, he said.

Shea said that Seagate already has branded storage solutions, but that the company is interested in Mirra because customers are looking for plug-and-play solutions in small businesses and homes. "We have a shared vision with Seagate on that," he said.

Going forward, Mirra is working on its next generation of Personal Server, which Shea said will have a smaller footprint, quieter operation, and improved performance. "We're raising the bar another level," he said.

Mirra has always used only Seagate hard drives, and so will not have to qualify a new vendor going forward, said Shea. "That certainly makes things simple," he said.

The Mirra Personal Server is available to the channel through D&H Distributing and Tech Data.

Financial details of the acquisition were not discussed. The deal closed on Wednesday.


----------



## Zman771

skillsrhodes said:


> Got the skinny with DVDShrink....
> 
> Open your disc
> Go to Re-Author
> Drag over the Title you want to conver to VOB
> Click on Compression Settings
> Make sure there are no subpicture streams selected
> 
> voila...
> 
> Alternatively, you can select in Preferences > Stream Selections "Disable All Subpicture Except Forced"
> 
> This will keep you from having to perform that step. It will also keep you from transferring foreign films with no dubbed option.... sigh....
> 
> And you can indeed ignore the bup and ifo
> 
> skills


I tried this and it didn't work. I tried with several DVD's and nothing. Did anyone get this to work?


----------



## RaGINaR

I've been using DVDShrink to convert the movies from multiple VOB to 1 file. Then I use DVDPatcher to convert the header of the file from 16:9 to 4:3 (720x480 res). 

Before I was only using DVDShrink, and this was making my 540040 have images that were multiple and blurred. After using Patcher, the image is crisp and clear!


Thanks for the advice, and hope others get it to work too.


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## joshdev

As soon as I get 5 posts in, I've put together a guide that easily explains how to convert 16:9 content to 4:3 letterbox. Yes you can patch a 16:9 to 4:3 or tell your Tivo that your television supports 16:9, but this stretches the image to fit the whole screen and people tend to look skinny.

--Josh


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## woodie

I setup a box with an ASTC tuner (and UHF antenna), and recorded an HD show.
I then transcoded it from HD down to ED (DVD quality), and viewed it on my 
Pioneer 810H... which was stunning. I would record other HD broadcasts this way,
if the process were not so painful.


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## Stainless Steele

I'd give my right arm for Divx support!


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## eazc

Is there a way to convert or transcode Quicktime videos to tivo friendly MPG2 videos? I should also mention that the Quicktime videos start with a screen that shows a "button" that must be clicked for the video to start. The the whole video plays to the end. Thanks.


----------



## wgary

Most video editing packages will do this. I use CyberLink PowerDirector, which allows you to import Quicktime videos and output them as Mpeg2.


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## videora

Hi all,
While developing a free MPEG-2 transcoder (which is based on FFMPEG) for the Xbox360, we thought it'd be pretty easy to tweak it to work for PC to TiVo playback too. Based on information obtained throughout the forums, we've built what we _think_ is a working TiVo converter. We say _think_ as in all honesty, we don't own a Series 2 TiVo and we can't just go to the store and get one to try this out (as we are based in Canada).

So were hoping that someone interested will give it a shot and report back if the videos playback fine on your TiVo, while we try to win a TiVo auction on eBay.

Since we are a new member, we can't post the URL just yet. If you'd like to get the app, you'll have to do a google search for "Videora Converter" and click the first result.


----------



## gonzotek

videora said:


> Hi all,
> While developing a free MPEG-2 transcoder (which is based on FFMPEG) for the Xbox360, we thought it'd be pretty easy to tweak it to work for PC to TiVo playback too. Based on information obtained throughout the forums, we've built what we _think_ is a working TiVo converter. We say _think_ as in all honesty, we don't own a Series 2 TiVo and we can't just go to the store and get one to try this out (as we are based in Canada).
> 
> So were hoping that someone interested will give it a shot and report back if the videos playback fine on your TiVo, while we try to win a TiVo auction on eBay.
> 
> Since we are a new member, we can't post the URL just yet. If you'd like to get the app, you'll have to do a google search for "Videora Converter" and click the first result.


The app looks great, I'll put it through it's paces for a while today and let you know my results.

http://www.videora.com/en-us/Converter/TiVo/

Cheers!
Cassidy


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## Justin Thyme

(edit- removed confused note thinking this was a .tivo->mpeg converter.)


----------



## videora

Just to head off any potential confusion, this is not a .Tivo -> Other format transcoder. 

The purpose of this app is to convert Other formats -> MPEG-2 for playback on Series 2 TiVo's from the Now Playing screen.


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## Justin Thyme

My Bad. Thanks for creating this tool. Currently there are a lot of limitations on moving video onto Tivo from other formats. 

The key problem I think is making these tools as idiot proof as possible- which is a tall order given the variety of codecs that could be installed on a consumer's computer. Once consumers can install a widget on their PC and seamlessly use it from their Tivo (or MCE or other device) to access video, I think people will flock to it in droves. It's a tall order because of the heterogeneity of the source files, but the profit potential is substantial. 

Good luck in your enterprise.


----------



## Justin Thyme

I tried this tool to downres a DivX-HD trailer for playing on Tivo. 
http://www.divx.com/movies/detail.php?movieID=5​This test file is a 1280x720 non interlaced 24fps 16x9 trailer professionally encoded using DX50 with many killer scenes- fast pans, all black, closeup skin tone scenes, fast intercuts.

Using the highest bitrate preset profile, this tool did an OK job at transcoding the source file, but it was using a fast encoding CBR setting. (Good-it cleared the main hurdles- different fps and downresing with no sync problems, no jitter.) On the negatives, this best profile declared was much worse PQ than what is possible with Canopus Procoder Express with the same file. I report such results and settings here

Bug: Going for max quality, I looked in the advanced settings, I found a lot of nice FFMPEG flags to set. I was not successful setting an A-VBR file 2 pass 8000kbps (tivo max) unless I left the min and max at 0. This created a 44MB file with much more compression artifacts than the CBR file. If I set the min and max to anything non zero eg min4096 max 8192, the encoding goes through both passes in a microsecond and creates a zero length file. Fortunately, you provided a debug output console and FFMPEG reports the problem as a missing buffer parameter when setting max bitrate. Fortunately, you also support custom flags so I could insert "-bufsize 65535". Suggest you calculate the proper buffer size and insert it . 64meg was a wrong guess- I got a very blocky video as a result.

Overall, I think this will become the transcoder I recommend but I need to test some more. As it is, it generates video which casual glance is comparable to Tivo Best. That makes it a good 85% solution and will likely be much better when the best PQ settings get sorted for multipass VBR. Let's face it- no one wants to spend $60 for Procoder express especially since they bind it to a single machine. And WinAvi has far fewer options than Videora converter. So I think people should take a look at this over WinAvi even though this tool is still in beta.

Gotta go do some other chores. Will fiddle around more with this later.


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## gonzotek

Justin Thyme said:


> I tried this tool to downres a DivX-HD trailer for playing on Tivo.
> http://www.divx.com/movies/detail.php?movieID=5​This test file is a 1280x720 non interlaced 24fps 16x9 trailer professionally encoded using DX50 with many killer scenes- fast pans, all black, closeup skin tone scenes, fast intercuts.
> 
> Using the highest bitrate preset profile, this tool did an OK job at transcoding the source file, but it was using a fast encoding CBR setting. (Good-it cleared the main hurdles- different fps and downresing with no sync problems, no jitter.) On the negatives, this best profile declared was much worse PQ than what is possible with Canopus Procoder Express with the same file. I report such results and settings here
> 
> Bug: Going for max quality, I looked in the advanced settings, I found a lot of nice FFMPEG flags to set. I was not successful setting an A-VBR file 2 pass 8000kbps (tivo max) unless I left the min and max at 0. This created a 44MB file with much more compression artifacts than the CBR file. If I set the min and max to anything non zero eg min4096 max 8192, the encoding goes through both passes in a microsecond and creates a zero length file. Fortunately, you provided a debug output console and FFMPEG reports the problem as a missing buffer parameter when setting max bitrate. Fortunately, you also support custom flags so I could insert "-bufsize 65535". Suggest you calculate the proper buffer size and insert it . 64meg was a wrong guess- I got a very blocky video as a result.
> 
> Overall, I think this will become the transcoder I recommend but I need to test some more. As it is, it generates video which casual glance is comparable to Tivo Best. That makes it a good 85% solution and will likely be much better when the best PQ settings get sorted for multipass VBR. Let's face it- no one wants to spend $60 for Procoder express especially since they bind it to a single machine. And WinAvi has far fewer options than Videora converter. So I think people should take a look at this over WinAvi even though this tool is still in beta.
> 
> Gotta go do some other chores. Will fiddle around more with this later.


My experience mirror's Justin's. Good GUI, works as advertised, I'd like to see it tweaked a bit for higher PQ, but it's already acceptable for many purposes. 

Thanks Videora!


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## Kelly W

I used the Videora converter to convert a video for transfer back to my TiVo. I just used the "one click encode" option. I was very impressed with the speed, ease of use, and quality of the output. Thank you soooo much for this program!

My only issue is this: on the TiVo, it thinks the program length is 57 minutes, when it is, in fact, 1 hour and 27 minutes. It seems to play the whole program, but past the 57 minute mark, I cannot fast forward or rewind. If I hit the eight-second rewind, it jumps back to around the 57 minute mark. The entire program plays fine on my computer. Any ideas as to what is going on?

Thanks!!!

-Kelly


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## echa01

_


greg_burns said:



Ok, I've used DVD Decrypter on a DVD to get at the .vob files. Renamed one of them to .mpg and dropped it into my Tivo Recordings directory. When I try to transfer I get some bogus error on the Tivo about the *file not being transfered because it was not found on the * <insert my computer name here>.

Click to expand...

_


greg_burns said:


> I'm getting this error as well, and can't seem to figure out what it means. I have tried renaming .vob files to .mpg files and transferring those, even after stripping out all the subpicture and extraneous audio. I have also tried transferring regular .mpg files that already exist on my computer, and I keep getting the same error message. Does anyone understand why this might be happening?


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## HDTiVo

> =echa01
> I'm getting this error as well, and can't seem to figure out what it means. I have tried renaming .vob files to .mpg files and transferring those, even after stripping out all the subpicture and extraneous audio. I have also tried transferring regular .mpg files that already exist on my computer, and I keep getting the same error message. Does anyone understand why this might be happening?


Double check that the audio format of the mpgs is correct for your TiVo.


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## ZeoTiVo

HDTiVo said:


> Double check that the audio format of the mpgs is correct for your TiVo.


yes, if you read through posts here you will find that the TiVo is particular about the audio format in the mpeg.

also the "file is not found" error is a very generic error returned for a lot of reasons it does not mean anything specific in this first version of TiVoToComeback


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## echa01

I uploaded a MPEG file from my PC to my TiVo, but when I play the file (length 1:41), the TiVo bar only shows a duration of 1:07. When I fast-forward to the end, I am able to play past 1:07, but it doesn't let me fast-forward anymore. The arrow is just stuck at the right end of the bar (1:07 of 1:07) and the file keeps playing.

Anybody have any idea why this happens and how I can fix it?

Thanks!


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## HDTiVo

I've had this problem many times, most commonly with mpgs created with ffmpeg. Changing the video bit rate has helped. For example, 720x480 @4000kb usually works.


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## sjn37

I have tried using Videora TiVo Converter without real success.
The source file is a 16:9 DivX (or XviD) TV show. I have tried the following:

720x480/16:9 Cannot play on TiVo. Looks like the interlacing is messed up. Every other line is shifted left and lots of flicker.

480x480/16:9 Has distortion on right side, about 20% of picture.

352x480/16:9 Has more distortion on right side, about 40% of picture.

480x480/4:3 Picture is stretched. I guess this makes sense since source is 16:9.

Has anyone had any better luck, and if so, which setting should I use?

/Stefan


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## rb_9999

Do you have a Sony Rear Projection Television? I have problems with files that play fine on my other Tivo and standard CRT TV but won't play on my Sony.


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## sjn37

No, it is a standard 4:3 31" CRT.


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## rb_9999

I have had good luck using the Main Concept MPEG Encoder. I think it is a interlace problem.

I used a program called GSPOT (http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_tools/gspot.cfm) to try to differentiate between videos that would play and would not play. Generally it had something to do with interlace settings.


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## Aflat

sjn37 try encoding 720x480/16:9 again, then transfer it to your tivo. Then go to Tivo->setting->Video and change the aspect ratio to 16:9. Your interlacing issue should be gone.

Now if only I could find an encoder to transcode 16:9 to 4:3 with the black bars, and was free, I'd be golden. Tpmeg is close but it's mpeg2 conversion tool isn't free.


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## sjn37

Thanks Aflat, that works. Is there any drwaback to setting your TiVo to 16:9 when my TV is only 4:3? My other recorded programs seemed to look good at 16:9.

I tried mencoder (which is free) to transcode 16:9 widescreen to 4:3 letterbox. It works, but the file didn't play very well on the TiVo, lot of stutter and sound drop-outs. Maybe I will try different bit-rates.


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## Aflat

I have yet to see a difference between the 16:9 and 4:3, but I also only have a 4:3 TV, so you may see a difference on a 16:9 TV.


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## DevdogAZ

Aflat said:


> sjn37 try encoding 720x480/16:9 again, then transfer it to your tivo. Then go to Tivo->setting->Video and change the aspect ratio to 16:9. Your interlacing issue should be gone.
> 
> Now if only I could find an encoder to transcode 16:9 to 4:3 with the black bars, and was free, I'd be golden. Tpmeg is close but it's mpeg2 conversion tool isn't free.


I'm having the same problem as sjn37. Are you saying that the settings on the TiVo have to be changed every time I watch a transferred file and then changed back for regular viewing? Edit: I see your previous post says this isn't necessary. I'll try it out.

I am also looking for a encoder that will take a 16:9 file and convert it to 4:3 letterboxed. I would be willing to pay a little. What is the best option? I've tried winavi's free trial and I have interlacing problems with that. Any other suggestions?


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## rjmitche

devdogaz said:


> I am also looking for a encoder that will take a 16:9 file and convert it to 4:3 letterboxed. I would be willing to pay a little. What is the best option? I've tried winavi's free trial and I have interlacing problems with that. Any other suggestions?


See this thread.


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## rneily

Ive found a way to do this with Videora:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3714418#post3714418


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## Jeff Lam

Re-Hash said:


> Another option, if you just want the VOBs (which can then be renamed MPG) and want to strip out the audio/subtitles, is DVD Shrink. You can choose to "re-Author" the DVD, select the parts of the DVD you want to keep (like the main movie), select the audio stream you want, change the Compression Settings to 'None' (so that it's not 'shrunk'), and then elect to not split the VOBs into 1GB chunks. There is a bit of a learning curve but it's pretty easy after the first use.


Sorry for the stupid question but how do you rename the VOB file to MPG to get tivo to recognize? I couldn't find any options under properties...


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## pendragn

Jeff Lam said:


> Sorry for the stupid question but how do you rename the VOB file to MPG to get tivo to recognize? I couldn't find any options under properties...


You have two options. One is to simply change the filename from whatever.VOB to whatever.MPG. A VOB is Video OBject file that is essentially and MPG2 file with extra data thrown in like chapters, stuff like that. Most of the time if you simply rename the VOB to MPG it'll work. On some occasions it won't. I use a program called "VOB2MPG" for that. It's free, and very handy. If you search for it in your favorite Internet search I'm sure it will show up.

tk


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## Jeff Lam

pendragn said:


> You have two options. One is to simply change the filename from whatever.VOB to whatever.MPG. A VOB is Video OBject file that is essentially and MPG2 file with extra data thrown in like chapters, stuff like that. Most of the time if you simply rename the VOB to MPG it'll work. On some occasions it won't. I use a program called "VOB2MPG" for that. It's free, and very handy. If you search for it in your favorite Internet search I'm sure it will show up.
> 
> tk


I understand the difference but my queston is simpler. How do I change it from a VOB to MPG? I can rename the file but it won't change the extention. I can change what the file opens with but that wont change the extention... I just dont know how to do it.


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## azitnay

You have two options:

1) Open up My Computer. Click on the Tools menu, then choose Folder Options. Go to the View tab. In "Advanced Settings", find "Hide extensions for known file types", and uncheck it. Click OK and close My Computer. All files will now show their extensions, and you can change a file's extension as easily as you can change its name. After you're done, you can either leave it as-is (my preference), or switch it back if you're not comfortable always seeing the extensions (and potentially changing one by accident).

2) If you're comfortable working from a command prompt (i.e. a DOS prompt), find the Command Prompt Start Menu item (usually in the Accessories folder) and open one up. Then, use the command prompt to navigate to the directory that contains the file, and use the ren command to rename the file. Obviously, this is only recommended if you've used DOS in the past.

Drew


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## pendragn

Yup, that'll work to rename the file. I still think you're going to find some of your "VOB renamed to MPG" files will be problems. I still recommend using VOB2MPG.

tk


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## luder

Anyone have any good luck on converting Tivo-->Mpeg2-->mpeg4 ?


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## ashu

I don't see why not. Heck, even TiVo Desktop (with the Plus upgrade?) does this - but at low resolutions for portable devices.

Numerous applications out there should handle the MPEG4-zation including DiVX-ization of .tivo->MPEG2 files just fine.


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## dcahoe

If you are a Windows user, then try this:

1) Use TiVoPlayList to download file from your tiVo
2) Use DirectShow Dump  (i.e. DSD) to convert from .tivo to .mpg file
3) Use Videora to convert to the format you want (such as .mp4)

You might have to skip step 1 since you are a Directivo user and are probably using TivoServer to extract shows.


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## Capn Jack

luder said:


> Anyone have any good luck on converting Tivo-->Mpeg2-->mpeg4 ?


For this I use TVHarmony. Quirky to set up but works very well.


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## emily2007

Just download a DVD ripper software to help you .


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