# Does Tru2Way Card = M-card?



## majinbuu147 (Nov 22, 2005)

Just got a Premiere and called to set up an appointment with Time Warner to have an M-Card installed. The operator insisted that M-Cards did not exist and that they only offered 2 cards Single-Stream and Tru2Way, and would be bring me a Tru2Way card. I told them fine bring that one. I have been trying to find out if a Tru2Way card is infact a M-Card but can't seem to find an exact answer. Anybody here know for sure? I got this TiVo Premiere on that no money down $20 a month thing and have 30 days to return it.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

They don't know what they are talking about. Time Warner only has M cards at this point. They stopped handing out S cards a couple years ago, since they are no longer made. There's no such thing as a Try2Way card.


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## majinbuu147 (Nov 22, 2005)

ok thats good i dont care which card they bring as long as i can use both tuners. i have no interest in on demand or ppv or caller id on tv


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

Arcady said:


> There's no such thing as a Try2Way card.


Of course, you mean Tru2Way, and *yes*, there is such a thing. The question is whether or not TW is handing them out.

I would call back and verify that the installer is bringing out cablecards, NOT tru2way cards, because no Tivo box right now can handle Tru2way.

The difference between cablecards and tru2way is really very simple:
CableCards have a very serious limitation, as they can't deal with VOD, PPV, On Screen interaction, etc.

Tru2Way does not have this limitation, it allows individuals with properly supported boxen to interact with the cable provider itself, providing as much data as the provider wants, including OSD's, PPV, VOD, etc.

You definitely want to call your provider and make CERTAIN they're bringing M-cards, and NOT Tru2Way cards


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## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

yup, and unfortunately as of March 2010 there are no consumer devices that are Tru2way compatible. Panasonic stopped production at that time. If your lucky you might still be able to find them sold somewhere. TH-50PZ80Q and TH-42PZ80Q are the only models I could find on Panasonic's site. It's a shame.

Oh by the way from what I've been told, any digital cable box made after a certain date, like from Cisco or Motorola must have seperable security because of some FCC regulation in 2007 http://broadcastengineering.com/news/separable-security-mandate-0702/, which is accomplished by using an internal or "removable" cablecard. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/netsol/ns794/networking_solutions_solution_category.html https://www.comcast.com/customers/faq/FaqCategory.ashx?CatId=479 So basically if your area, like mine, has the new cable boxes "in the wild" to be rented, then I'm assuming that your area is capable.

Secondly a multistream card and tru2way card are the exact same thing. The current M stream cards that we are using in our devices are simply set to one way mode.

So in short, from what I've been told by both the FCC and Comcast, the M stream cablecards that are rented out are the same cards found in new cable boxes from the cable company, which has the on screen display, the VOD, and PPV, with tru2way interaction. The limitation is there is no consumer hardware that is tru2way compatible. (as of the date of this post)

I'm hoping a software or firmware update to our devices could change that, instead of, from what TiVo's told me, require new hardware.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Cableboxes do not use Tru2Way. Just because they use CableCards, and offer VOD and PPV does not mean they use Tru2Way. The cableboxes interact with cable head-ends the same way legacy cableboxes do. Very few cable companies can use Tru2Way. Likewise, the companies which have rolled out TiVo Premieres that can support VOD and PPV (RCN, etc) are not using Tru2Way.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

Mike Wolf said:


> I'm hoping a software or firmware update to our devices could change that, instead of, from what TiVo's told me, require new hardware.


You would think the premiere would be designed for this, it's not like tru2way is anything new by any means


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

twhiting9275 said:


> You would think the premiere would be designed for this, it's not like tru2way is anything new by any means


Tru2Way is pretty much DOA.


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## Mike Wolf (Sep 19, 2010)

twhiting9275 said:


> You would think the premiere would be designed for this, it's not like tru2way is anything new by any means


Your right, but after reading a press release released by Cox and TiVo, and after talking to media relations, he directed me to some articles that give an alternative to tru2way, and was told that TiVo is taking a different approach to the same result. 
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=195670&site=lr_cable

http://pr.tivo.com/easyir/customrel...ersion=live&prid=651057&releasejsp=custom_150

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=194208&site=lr_cable


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

Mike Wolf said:


> Your right, but after reading a press release released by Cox and TiVo, and after talking to media relations, he directed me to some articles that give an alternative to tru2way, and was told that TiVo is taking a different approach to the same result.


This isn't the 'same result' by any means here. This is Tivo selling out to cable providers, which really doesn't provide the 'same result'.

With cablecard options, a Tivo subscriber can access HD, PPV, subscription channels, but they don't have access to the VOD from the cable co.

With the option you just mentioned, the customer doesn't decide what they get, the cable company does:



> TiVo can receive over-the-top content from sources like Netflix Inc. (Nasdaq: NFLX) and Amazon.com Inc. (Nasdaq: AMZN), if that's what an MSO wants. (TiVo can also block those services at an MSO's request.)


If selling out is the goal, then Tivo has succeeded there. Really, it's not all THAT worth it, just for VOD and a menu.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

twhiting9275 said:


> This isn't the 'same result' by any means here. This is Tivo selling out to cable providers, which really doesn't provide the 'same result'.
> 
> With cablecard options, a Tivo subscriber can access HD, PPV, subscription channels, but they don't have access to the VOD from the cable co.


"True2way" it was dead before even really off the drawing board. It would require that any manufacturer of the device somehow run actual computer code from the cable company on the customer's [whatever] box... magically... somehow. Can you say "nightmare"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way

I think the whole effort was another farce... similar to cablecard, but much worse. Make no mistake, cable companies hate Tru2way just as much as they hate cablecard.

Tru2way is supposedly NOT NEEDED to support: all cable channels, one way guide data, PPV, and VOD. It is only needed for interactive guides and to replace the need for a tuning adapter. If I understand correctly, Cox's announcement with TiVo should require no additional hardware nor special code from TiVo to do what they claim will be coming. It is more of a testing and configuration type arrangement.

Ironically, there is theoretically no need for a "Tuning Adapter" to support SDV in a TiVo. 99% of the time, the TiVo is already connected to the cable company through the Internet, through a cable modem (at the end of the ethernet cable) and could ALREADY be programmed to request channels and get back tuning information through that link. The major component of the Tuning Adapter is just a cable modem....

Um, guess how the cable company's DVR does it without a tuning adapter? You guessed it, it has a built-in cable modem.


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## majinbuu147 (Nov 22, 2005)

thanks for all the info, but i just want to make sure a true2way card can provide multiple streams so both tuners can work


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

majinbuu147 said:


> thanks for all the info, but i just want to make sure a true2way card can provide multiple streams so both tuners can work


There is no such thing as a Tru2way card. What TW was probably saying is 2-way cards. They mistakenly call M-cards this at TW and Charter. If they ask, say yes, you want a 2-way card. There's no point in trying to tell them it is really a M-card. Most TW installers do not even cary S-cards anyways so it shouldn't matter.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

majinbuu147 said:


> thanks for all the info, but i just want to make sure a true2way card can provide multiple streams so both tuners can work


As was said, there is really no such thing as a tru2way card. What you need is an "M" card ( M=multistream).


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

twhiting9275 said:


> Of course, you mean Tru2Way, and *yes*, there is such a thing. The question is whether or not TW is handing them out.


tru2way is a standard, not a cable card. Tru2way has a DOCIS modem in the box for talking back to the headend and a sandbox for running code from cable company. a cable card is used to get the digital streams and decrypt them if needed but it is the same Scard or Mcard as used in various TiVo boxes now.

Please read on this some before posting your highly inaccurate stuff as if it was correct. It is far from correct.

to the original poster - the TW CSR was also highly confused and saying inaccurate things. There is Scard for single stream but very likely the technician will bring an Mcard - which stands for being able to do multiple streams at once. This is what the premiere uses.


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## megory (Jan 23, 2003)

Hey @MikeWolf, if you get this message, drop me a line. You aren't getting PMs. Happy Thanksgiving!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

megory said:


> Hey @MikeWolf, if you get this message, drop me a line. You aren't getting PMs. Happy Thanksgiving!


Good luck. That last post from 2010 was the last post from him.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Good luck. That last post from 2010 was the last post from him.


Last time he was on here was February 2013, but this might be the same Mike Wolf that posts on the DSL Reports Comcast forums (especially the Cable TV one) as I know he has a TiVo and is in Beachwood, NJ.

Scott


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

It's the same one.


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