# Please clarify sources of TV content for the Stream 4K



## Tad W (Apr 3, 2019)

Can someone clarify: Can the TiVo Stream 4K get its TV content from shows recorded on a TiVo account (just like the TiVo app does on an iPad) or does the TV content on the Stream 4K have to come from a Sling account?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

The Stream4K does not access recordings on your Tivo account or Tivos, that's its biggest flaw IMNSHO


----------



## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

TV content on the TS4K can come from just about any TV streaming app available on the Google Play Store, (Sling, YTTV, Pluto, etc).

It is currently designed to integrate programming sources from a limited number of apps, (Sling TV, Netflix, HBO Now, Prime Membership, Prime Video, Hulu, Disney+ and Google Play Movies & TV).

Paul Shivers


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

it's a pure streaming product. not related to their dvrs.


----------



## Tad W (Apr 3, 2019)

Thank you for that clarification. I was thinking about a Stream 4K on a semi-outdoor TV where I didn't want to set up a mini.

As for the focus on streaming... I understand the long term direction is streaming. However having tried it (with DirectTV Now) before I re-committed and upgraded my TiVo, it does not make financial or quality sense, at least today. ... The money you save cutting Cable TV is spent in the increase cost of internet (without bundled TV) + one or more streaming services (Sling is relatively expensive) + surcharges for exceeding 1/2TB internet provider data limits. From my experience the only way to actually save "cutting cable" is cutting out most content, by sharing content accounts with friends and family and/or suffering frustrating downgrades in quality (including buffering, pixelation, dropping audio, unavailable content especially with sports, poor guides, horrible pause/rewind).


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Tad W said:


> As for the focus on streaming... I understand the long term direction is streaming. However having tried it (with DirectTV Now) before I re-committed and upgraded my TiVo, it does not make financial or quality sense, at least today. ... The money you save cutting Cable TV is spent in the increase cost of internet (without bundled TV) + one or more streaming services (Sling is relatively expensive) + surcharges for exceeding 1/2TB internet provider data limits. From my experience the only way to actually save "cutting cable" is cutting out most content, by sharing content accounts with friends and family and/or suffering frustrating downgrades in quality (including buffering, pixelation, dropping audio, unavailable content especially with sports, poor guides, horrible pause/rewind).


it all depends on your needs and the services and options available to you and price etc.

my experience has been the opposite of yours though.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> it's a pure streaming product. not related to their dvrs.


But the sad thing is that it didn't have to be, a simple android app tweak to the app they already have built into the stream4K would make it a must have to existing owners and get them in the new ecosystem.

Technically it's not even a new product, just a reskin of the existing slingtv streamer if I remember correctly.


----------



## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

pshivers said:


> TV content on the TS4K can come from just about any TV streaming app available on the Google Play Store, (Sling, YTTV, Pluto, etc).


 In addition, the TV 'apps' aren't just Over the Top (OTT) apps that need the higher speed internet. 
There are others that can use with a TV tuner that you put on your local network ( HDHomeRun , Tablo , Sling AirTv2 , etc. ). Google has a 'Live Channels' app on Play Store . There is  Channels app . Each LAN network TV tuner device also have an app to watch TV. Even Sling as a network tuner.... and they don't integrate (in the Tivo app) with that either ( but can still see local TV stations in the Sling app if just switch over to it. ).

The embarrassing fail for Tivo here is that those all work on the Stream 4K. The number keys work to tune channels by number. The Channels DVR set up so can record , pause , skip commercials, etc. and the Tivo DVR on the same LAN does a whole lot of nothing value add. Sling app (with AirTV2 ) works.

Sure, Tivo was trying to go after a larger group of folks who don't have Tivo's, this is was really not all that hard to do. Steve Jobs had the original Mac keyboard stripped of a 'Control' and (escape) keys so old school command line programs wouldn't work so well and ported apps would have to more closely adhere to Mac GUI+mouse guidelines.. Perhaps this was a "don't do it so you are better AndroidTV box" move... but it really , really , really doesn't make much sense long term. ( didn't make sense for Mac either since they backpedaled on the control key bad pretty quickly after release. ).

The HUGE marketing disconnect problem is that they have forced streamed to about every active classic Tivo DVR user multiple messages about the "new Tivo Stream 4K". So it shouldn't have been a surprise when those folks thought there was some synergy there. Tivo could have built the Stream 4K to go after non current Tivo user base (that is much larger), but why then pound the drums very loud in the current user base? What? hoping to catch folks who are dumping the Tivo due to pre-roll ads?

In short, there are options. They just don't involve the default "Tivo content aggregation" app they have anchored the sale pitch messaging around the device on. However, that app isn't the whole device value though, but other AndroidTV devices can play that role too.


----------



## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

Tad W said:


> Thank you for that clarification. I was thinking about a Stream 4K on a semi-outdoor TV where I didn't want to set up a mini.


 A more affordable Mini is not what they were primarily aiming at. If pulling over CableTV, then it is likely either another CableCard ( for a network tuner) or one of that cable operators new IPTV boxes for that use case. (or if it is a "Smart" TV and a cable operator app ... pull it that way).


----------



## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

dianebrat said:


> But the sad thing is that it didn't have to be, a simple android app tweak to the app they already have built into the stream4K would make it a must have to existing owners and get them in the new ecosystem.


 Not sure that is a simple tweak. The app has numerous "download" and "remote control" apsects that probably should be pruned out. If the code was design so that is easily chopped out then it would be easy. If not then there is a problem. The other substantive issue is the the Android app technically just deals with recordings and mandates a transcoder. And the transcode process is aimed at substantially lower bandwidth ( so probably a picture quality hit which is more likely to show up on a larger screen. ).

A modern WiFi 5 or WiFI 6 ( 802.11 ac or ax ) network and passing around MPEG2 files probably wouldn't be a problem, but the Android/iOS apps aren't really set up to do that.



> Technically it's not even a new product, just a reskin of the existing slingtv streamer if I remember correctly.


 The underlying hardware is basically the same. The software layered on top is a bit different, but does have same central core.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

ElT60 said:


> Not sure that is a simple tweak. The app has numerous "download" and "remote control" apsects that probably should be pruned out. If the code was design so that is easily chopped out then it would be easy. If not then there is a problem. The other substantive issue is the the Android app technically just deals with recordings and mandates a transcoder. And the transcode process is aimed at substantially lower bandwidth ( so probably a picture quality hit which is more likely to show up on a larger screen. ).
> 
> A modern WiFi 5 or WiFI 6 ( 802.11 ac or ax ) network and passing around MPEG2 files probably wouldn't be a problem, but the Android/iOS apps aren't really set up to do that.
> 
> The underlying hardware is basically the same. The software layered on top is a bit different, but does have same central core.


This!

The countless "it works on my 6" phone so it has to be just a simple tweak here and there to get the app to work on my 65" tv" posts are really clueless.


----------



## jimpmc (Oct 31, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> This!
> 
> The countless "it works on my 6" phone so it has to be just a simple tweak here and there to get the app to work on my 65" tv" posts are really clueless.


Actually, it is mostly a UI issue. Have you sideloaded and used it with a mouse? It works and the PQ is fairly good. Maybe not the same original quality as a mini would produce, but then again it didn't cost the same as a new mini.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> This!
> 
> The countless "it works on my 6" phone so it has to be just a simple tweak here and there to get the app to work on my 65" tv" posts are really clueless.


Sorry but I disagree on the clueless implication, I know what's involved, and I know it's not "and change this one line of code"
The point is they have an an android app and existing proven code to access the DVRs, integrating that into this "new" product while costing them time and money gives them a huge market of existing users that are now in the new ecosystem, but by not even attempting it this new streaming device might as well come from SlingTV as opposed to Tivo, there's very little added Tivo brand value.

It's like when I was stumbling around the SSD market and found a Kodak branded 2.5" SSD, someone just slapped a name on it, there's no actual market or customer base involved.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dianebrat said:


> Sorry but I disagree on the clueless implication, I know what's involved, and I know it's not "and change this one line of code"
> The point is they have an an android app and existing proven code to access the DVRs, integrating that into this "new" product while costing them time and money gives them a huge market of existing users that are now in the new ecosystem, but by not even attempting it this new streaming device might as well come from SlingTV as opposed to Tivo, there's very little added Tivo brand value.
> 
> It's like when I was stumbling around the SSD market and found a Kodak branded 2.5" SSD, someone just slapped a name on it, there's no actual market or customer base involved.


How do you know they haven't even attempted it?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> How do you know they haven't even attempted it?


All I know is that it's not there, and they have given no intention of adding it.
Heck just the fact that it's not even their OWN PRODUCT and just a reskinned product from someone else makes it lose a few points for me.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dianebrat said:


> All I know is that it's not there, and they have given no intention of adding it.
> Heck just the fact that it's not even their OWN PRODUCT and just a reskinned product from someone else makes it lose a few points for me.


The CEO has mentioned the possibility of adding DVR playback and others have reported recent surveys sent have inquired about the addition of such a feature.

So for a product less than a month old for you to say they "have given no intention" of adding it I think is very unfair.

Again, the product is LESS THAN A MONTH OLD and you're looking for statements from them about adding a major feature that would fundamentally change the entire value proposition of the device.

Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't but by God, give them some time.


----------



## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Is Tivo even making DVRs anymore? Seems like they are moving to software and streaming.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

mschnebly said:


> Is Tivo even making DVRs anymore? Seems like they are moving to software and streaming.


Their latest model came out literally 8-9 months ago. Perhaps as someone on this forum you've heard of it.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> The CEO has mentioned the possibility of adding DVR playback and others have reported recent surveys sent have inquired about the addition of such a feature.
> So for a product less than a month old for you to say they "have given no intention" of adding it I think is very unfair.
> Again, the product is LESS THAN A MONTH OLD and you're looking for statements from them about adding a major feature that would fundamentally change the entire value proposition of the device.
> Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't but by God, give them some time.


It's not "less than a month old" it's an existing AirTV mini that was released last summer that they reskinned and added an app to, this one isn't rocket since and isn't even their product, this is a few bucks to keep the doors open, it's not a shift to make the business profitable in a new direction.

It's not Pablo Escobar's brother rebranding cellphones level, but it's still not a direction that IMNSHO will help them other than a few bucks here and there.


----------



## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

cwoody222 said:


> Their latest model came out literally 8-9 months ago. Perhaps as someone on this forum you've heard of it.


Yep I've heard of it. I've also heard that they stop making them too. That's why I asked.


----------

