# S3 Software 11.3b7 broke my channels



## srjtr7 (Sep 9, 2002)

On friday my Tivo S3 got a software update to 11.3b7-01-2-652 and now all my channels except for the basic channels now say "This channel is not authorized".

Anyone else having this issue?

I called Verizon FIOS because I thought it was their issue, they came out and change the cable cards, cables, ONT and everything looked good on their end.

I can even take out the cable cards from the 2-series 3's that are not working and put them in to my Series 4 and I get all the channels.

Tivo support said maybe 1-2 weeks for a fix.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Apparently that was an update that wasn't supposed to be pushed out.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=11178977#e11178977

But now I'm dying to know what's in it that's not in 11.0m


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

unitron said:


> But now I'm dying to know what's in it that's not in 11.0m


Well, if they really bring it in line with the Australia/New Zealand TiVos (which have been running 11.3 for a long time), it will mean that MPEG-4 channels and transport streams will come to the Series 3. A big win, IMHO, although a little late for me.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

11.3 makes me suspect the update is just planned for the "down under" boxes.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

dlfl said:


> 11.3 makes me suspect the update is just planned for the "down under" boxes.


Agreed. There's a *very slim* chance they could roll it to all US units, and it just accidentally hit some random units.

Funny, though, how when a major rollout created a big bug for me, I was told "TiVo never rolls-back, only rolls-out higher revisions", and the most they could do was to halt a rollout, then begin a new rollout with a higher revision, in the event of a major bug popping up part-way into staged rollout. Rolling me back to my previous software, which I requested, was request-denied.

If TiVo's servers have been fixed to not send the update to the afflicted TSNs (again), then simply changing the active partitions to what is now the "alternate" partitions, should theoretically roll those units back to whatever the version was pre-wrong-update...

WinMFS is the easiest tool, for novices, if anybody wants to try switching active partitions. The experts know the hex/disk editing way to do the same thing.

At this time, a KS(kickstart)52 most likely would result in the update being installed to the current alternate partition, then it becoming active, which should give those inclined to study the "wrong" software a "backup" to study, for when TiVo rolls the fix (in theory, in my current groggy head).


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dlfl said:


> 11.3 makes me suspect the update is just planned for the "down under" boxes.


I was thinking the same thing, it's currently the most logical scenario.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

For those wishing to use WinMFS to switch back to the previous version of the software, hook the drive to the PC, boot into Windows, start WinMFS, select the drive, and under File, click on 

mfsinfo

and it should somewhere tell you if your primary boot partitions are 2, 3, and 4, and the alternates are 5, 6, and 7, or if it's the other way around.

After you close out 

mfsinfo

somewhere to the right of File is another thing to click on (Tools, maybe) and it drops down and one of the offered options is 

fixboot

or 

bootfix

or something like that, and it offers 2 options.

Option 1 makes 2, 3, and 4 your primary boot partitions, regardless of whether they already were or not, and makes 5, 6, and 7 the alternates.

Option 2, regardless of previous setting, makes 5, 6, and 7 the primary boot partitions, and 2, 3, and 4 the alternates.


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## gtalvola (Apr 2, 2008)

srjtr7 said:


> On friday my Tivo S3 got a software update to 11.3b7-01-2-652 and now all my channels except for the basic channels now say "This channel is not authorized".
> 
> Anyone else having this issue?
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat. I have 3 Tivo HD's and 2 of them are exhibiting that same symptom - I get only the basic channels. And I tried swapping cable cards and the problem stuck with the Tivo's, not the cable cards. I don't currently have access to the Tivos but I suspect 2 of them got the software update and the 3rd did not. I'll double check tonight.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

nooneuknow said:


> ..........
> Funny, though, how when a major rollout created a big bug for me, I was told "TiVo never rolls-back, only rolls-out higher revisions", and the most they could do was to halt a rollout, then begin a new rollout with a higher revision, in the event of a major bug popping up part-way into staged rollout. Rolling me back to my previous software, which I requested, was request-denied.
> .........


If that's the way it works (and it seems likely), all series 3's may have to get an update in order to replace the bogus 11.3 update that a few boxes got. For most boxes this "update" will be identical to the 11.0m that it replaces! Unless they are able to identify just the boxes that need correction and somehow update only them *back* to 11.0m. I suspect Tivo may have opened a big can of worms with this mistake.


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## srjtr7 (Sep 9, 2002)

I called Tivo and they tried to have me do a kickstart 52 and it will not run.

I get all the proper lights to blink at the right times..it just keeps loading and starts as normal and problem is not gone.

If they cannot help me sort it out I might try the tool mantioned above to switch the active partition.

Anyone know if having an expansion drive will affects running that tool, or is all "OS" on the internal and the expansion drive is just a data drive?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I think Tivo owes the affected users something to compensate for this error, perhaps a refund or credit for a months subscription cost.


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

wmcbrine said:


> Well, if they really bring it in line with the Australia/New Zealand TiVos (which have been running 11.3 for a long time), it will mean that MPEG-4 channels and transport streams will come to the Series 3. A big win, IMHO, although a little late for me.


I really hope that they do this!! My provider (Cox) has moved some channels to MPEG-4.

Is anyone with this software version able to test a MPEG-4 channel?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

srjtr7 said:


> I called Tivo and they tried to have me do a kickstart 52 and it will not run.
> 
> I get all the proper lights to blink at the right times..it just keeps loading and starts as normal and problem is not gone.
> 
> ...


Another reason to avoid expansion drives.

Figure out some way to hook up both the internal drive and the external drive to the PC on which you'll be running WinMFS and when you Select Drive, select the internal and then the external as the "B" drive, and maybe it'll be able to work with things that way.


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## robomeister (Feb 4, 2005)

So which TiVos got this "update?" Was it just TiVoHD (TCD652)? TiVoHD XL (TCD658)? or (dare I say) Series 3 OLED (TCD648)? I would be very interested to know.

I will check my TiVos to see if I got an updated machine, too.

I'm guessing it is just the TCD65x or TiVoHD variants who got the 11.3 update.

Thanks,
robomeister


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dlfl said:


> If that's the way it works (and it seems likely), all series 3's may have to get an update in order to replace the bogus 11.3 update that a few boxes got. For most boxes this "update" will be identical to the 11.0m that it replaces! Unless they are able to identify just the boxes that need correction and somehow update only them back to 11.0m. I suspect Tivo may have opened a big can of worms with this mistake.


It depends. If the database format hasn't changed, then it would be very easy to revert the software as I'm sure TiVo has the ability to remote force install since there's a kickstart option that does the same thing.

If the database format has changed during the update (get the this will take an hour screen), then things become a lot more complicated as the older software might not be able to read the new database format, depending on what was changed. This would require developing a method to revert the database format. I don't know how tricky that is or of TiVo has the ability or not.

During the normal upgrade cycle they don't downgrade since everyone will eventually get new software. The Series 3 is in the end of life stage, so updates will not occur, with one notable exception.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

morac said:


> It depends. If the database format hasn't changed, then it would be very easy to revert the software as I'm sure TiVo has the ability to remote force install since there's a kickstart option that does the same thing.
> 
> If the database format has changed during the update (get the this will take an hour screen), then things become a lot more complicated as the older software might not be able to read the new database format, depending on what was changed. This would require developing a method to revert the database format. I don't know how tricky that is or of TiVo has the ability or not.
> 
> During the normal upgrade cycle they don't downgrade since everyone will eventually get new software. The Series 3 is in the end of life stage, so outdates will not occur, with one notable exception.


Apparently there are two recent notable exceptions to the no updates state of things, although this more recent one wasn't intentional, as was 11.0m


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

dlfl said:


> If that's the way it works (and it seems likely), all series 3's may have to get an update in order to replace the bogus 11.3 update that a few boxes got. For most boxes this "update" will be identical to the 11.0m that it replaces! Unless they are able to identify just the boxes that need correction and somehow update only them *back* to 11.0m. I suspect Tivo may have opened a big can of worms with this mistake.


Agreed. I'd expect TiVo to just roll-out an "update" of a higher revision, to all S3/HD units. I doubt it will be for anything except fixing the blunder, but will be rolled to everybody, for consistency, but likely not fix anything, or add any new features. It likely will just "fix" units which received the "wrong" revision...

I think everybody needs to cross their fingers, and hope like crazy, that they don't break anything (as many updates have had a tendency to do, but not always).

As mentioned by other posts leading up to this one, TiVo may be able to "un-update" the units. Although, IMHO, they likely won't do so, as it will prove they can "remove" an update, leading to requests for rollbacks (which they don't allow, AFAIK)... YMMV, and all that stuff.

Anybody who has the "wrong" software, may want to consider making a backup (clone) of the drive, before the "fix" happens, so there is a copy around, for "experts" to dig around the code. Doing so was requested in the 11.0m thread, where people are getting mad that their thread has morphed from on-topic to off-topic...


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## thalador (Oct 26, 2007)

I just got off of a chat with Tivo. I am in the same boat. Chat text below

Miguel: Thank you for contacting TiVo! My name is Miguel. So that I may better assist you, are you an existing customer?
ME: Yes I am
Miguel: Thank you! In order to verify your identity, can you please provide the following account information?
*name on the account
*address (including city/state/zip)
*phone number
ME: ME
ME: XXXXXXXXX
ME: XXXXXXXXX
ME: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Miguel: Thank you for verifying your information. How may I assist you today?
ME: On my Tivo HD I am getting channel not authorized on many channels. Verizon was out all morning and the cablecards and wiring are all good. I saw on forums that an update 11.3 might have be sent to the series 3's by mistake and was wondering how I can get this fixed
Miguel: I would be happy to assist you. One moment please. 
ME: I just redid the guided setup so it is in the process of downloading info now, so I am not able to do anything on the tivo.. just an fyi
Miguel: I do see your HD has updated a pre release Software Update. A second update will be released soon to resolve the issue. 
ME: Is there any eta to soon? I have been without service since Saturday
Miguel: At this time I don't have a release date. I do apologize for the inconvenience. 
ME: Will there be any kind of compensation or credit given for this mistake/outage?
Miguel: Unfortunately, I am unable to apply any credit to the account. 
ME: That is rather disheartening. Thank you for the information. You may want to suggest that a notification be sent to S3/HD users about this issue instead of, like me, having a cable company out at the home all day
Miguel: I definitely understand your frustration and I will forward the information. Thank you.

So I am not very happy with Tivo atm. Considering I have been thinking about buying a Roamio or 2 this makes me reconsider.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

An inexcusable response from Tivo support but, unfortunately, more or less par for the course. Support that is insultingly bad for all but the simplest of issues is pretty common for most products, not just Tivo.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't see why people are assuming this was a mistake. It's normal for TiVo to roll out a new version to a small number of units first, to shake out any bugs.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

If your TiVo Series3 received the 11.3 software update, please call our customer support line at 1-877-367-8486.

If you run into any difficulty getting this issue resolved, please email me at [email protected] with the subject "Series3 running 11.3" and include your TiVo Service Number.

--Margret


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## thalador (Oct 26, 2007)

Thank you Margret, I am calling now. Will update the thread when I am off the phone.


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## thalador (Oct 26, 2007)

Just spoke to support. They said the same thing, they are aware and no ETA on a fix. I have emailed you my information. Thanks again


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## srjtr7 (Sep 9, 2002)

Just called Tivo support again because my 2- Tivo's have been useless since friday....and just got "We are working on it"....no ETA of a fix.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

It would be great if someone with this 11.3 release would snag a backup with WinMFS or DvrBARS so that at some time it could be examined closer.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> If your TiVo Series3 received the 11.3 software update, please call our customer support line at 1-877-367-8486.
> 
> If you run into any difficulty getting this issue resolved, please email me at [email protected] with the subject "Series3 running 11.3" and include your TiVo Service Number.
> 
> --Margret


So, should those of us in the states expect a working version of anything newer than 11.0m in the foreseeable future?

(or was this just mistaken Australian cross-pollination?)

And if so, can you share what changes it would bring?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I wonder how many TiVos were affected. 
The way TiVoMargret worded her post leads me to believe this might be handled on a case by case basis, as TiVo does have the ability to work with individual TSNs.
The other reason I think this will be case by case is because TiVo knows their track record with updates "breaking" things. If the number of Tivos affected is low enough, it wouldn't make sense to push a "new" update to everyone and risk causing more problems.


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## thalador (Oct 26, 2007)

I was contacted yesterday by Jenn from Margrets office. She said that she was working on how to fix this. She is out of the office today but said she would be in touch with me Friday. She mentioned such things as software updates, new box or something else. I will update this after I hear from her tomorrow.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

There are no further updates planned for TiVo Series3 boxes. It was a mistake that some people received 11.3.

--Margret


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

So sad. Mpeg - 4 would have been nice. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## srjtr7 (Sep 9, 2002)

I did receive a phone call from Tivo about how it has been escalated and I know "they are working on it"....but come tomorrow it will be a week that 2 out of my 3 Tivo boxes has been mostly useless.

All of my shows unless they where on really basic channels has been missed and not recorded.

And my 2 year old does not understand why she cannot watch any of her shows


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

TiVoMargret said:


> There are no further updates planned for TiVo Series3 boxes. It was a mistake that some people received 11.3.


Thanks for the response Margret.



jmbach said:


> So sad. Mpeg - 4 would have been nice.


Agreed, this is a bummer, particularly since we know that the MPEG-4 software already exists and is in service in some other markets.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> There are no further updates planned for TiVo Series3 boxes. It was a mistake that some people received 11.3.
> 
> --Margret


If you never intended to update beyond 11.0k (except for somebody's bone headed hard coding causing the St. TiVo's Day massacre and forcing 11.0m), why does anything beyond 11.0 even exist?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I don't know if the problem that I just realized my TiVo is having is the same as this or unrelated (since it involves a reboot loop), so I posted its own thread for it:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10025657


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

I wonder just how much trouble they're going to have undoing this "upgrade".

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=515154


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

unitron said:


> I wonder just how much trouble they're going to have undoing this "upgrade".
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=515154


Yeah, sounds like TiVo bricked a significant number of Series 3's. Inconvenient and annoying, but getting a Roamio Plus for $199 with a free lifetime transfer would make me happy again if it had happened to me.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tatergator1 said:


> Yeah, sounds like TiVo bricked a significant number of Series 3's. Inconvenient and annoying, but getting a Roamio Plus for $199 with a free lifetime transfer would make me happy again if it had happened to me.


Not me.

I'd be telling them I'm not spending a dime, and if they have to come to my house in person to fix it without costing me any of the shows I've recorded, then they'd better pack their bags and tool kits.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

unitron said:


> (except for somebody's bone headed hard coding causing the St. TiVo's Day massacre and forcing 11.0m)


What was that?


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

ic316 said:


> Your Series3 TiVo DVR has been impacted by a recent software update, which may prevent you from accessing certain channels and web videos as well as DVR Expander capabilities. Even if you're not experiencing the problem right now, it may impact you in the near future. To ensure you continue to receive outstanding TiVo service, we will replace your DVR free of charge and transfer your current TiVo service to a new TiVo Premiere or Premiere 4 DVR.


Over on the other thread ( http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=515154 ) there are reports of free upgrade to a Premiere or an extra cost upgrade to a RoamioPro.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

unitron said:


> If you never intended to update beyond 11.0k (except for somebody's bone headed hard coding causing the St. TiVo's Day massacre and forcing 11.0m), why does anything beyond 11.0 even exist?





CrashHD said:


> What was that?


Hard coding the certificate expiration date that Tivo Desktop used for transfers, when it expired the official methods could no longer transfer the programs.


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

ADent said:


> Over on the other thread ( http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=515154 ) there are reports of free upgrade to a Premiere or an extra cost upgrade to a RoamioPro.


Ahh, I had missed that particular quote. Hmm, time to give it some consideration. By transferring the lifetime however I'm still left with a perfectly good TiVo HD that I could use for OTA only but which has no further lifetime contract.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

teasip said:


> Ahh, I had missed that particular quote. Hmm, time to give it some consideration. By transferring the lifetime however I'm still left with a perfectly good TiVo HD that I could use for OTA only but which has no further lifetime contract.


Looks to me like you'd be left with a backup parts machine for your daughter's TiVo.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

ADent said:


> Over on the other thread ( http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=515154 ) there are reports of free upgrade to a Premiere or an extra cost upgrade to a RoamioPro.


I wonder why TiVo doesn't just push the correct software back to the affected boxes. I assumed they had the ability to work with individual TSNs.
It seems that would be easier (and a lot cheaper) than replacing the hardware. 

I wonder if TiVo wants the "broken" boxes back so they can dissect them.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

steve614 said:


> I wonder why TiVo doesn't just push the correct software back to the affected boxes. I assumed they had the ability to work with individual TSNs.
> It seems that would be easier (and a lot cheaper) than replacing the hardware.
> 
> I wonder if TiVo wants the "broken" boxes back so they can dissect them.


As I mentioned above, there can be more to a software update than just updating the software.

TiVo frequently updates the database format as seen by those post-install "this can take up to an hour maybe more" screens. If TiVo updates the database format and then pushes an older software update that's not aware of the new database format, the result can be a completely hosed TiVo box where the old software can't read the data on the box because it doesn't know how to do so.

To fix this, TiVo would need to revert the database back to the original format. As far as I'm aware, TiVo does not make backups of the database on the box during the update (maybe it should?) which means that TiVo would have to figure out how to revert the database changes made to the box. That would include any changes to the database made since the update. Doing that would take a considerable amount of time and effort, not to mention testing and the like.

If the number of people affected is small enough, than it's cheaper for TiVo to simply provide affected users a new Premiere or Roamio than try to downgrade accidentally updated Series 3 boxes.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

What a catch 22.  Can this possibly be defended as a reasonable design?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

morac said:


> As I mentioned above, there can be more to a software update than just updating the software.
> 
> TiVo frequently updates the database format as seen by those post-install "this can take up to an hour maybe more" screens. If TiVo updates the database format and then pushes an older software update that's not aware of the new database format, the result can be a completely hosed TiVo box where the old software can't read the data on the box because it doesn't know how to do so.
> 
> ...


Which partition(s) would be affected by the database format update?


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

I wish they'd hosed one of mine. I'd take the upgrade, reimage my drive, and consider it as having made off like a bandit.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

unitron said:


> Which partition(s) would be affected by the database format update?


Wherever the meta-data is stored.

Theoretically a software downgrade and then a clear and delete everything should work (depending on how thorough a C&DE is), but at that point recordings would be lost anyway.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

unitron said:


> Which partition(s) would be affected by the database format update?


The database is thousands of interlinked "tyDb" files scattered across the entire MFS directory structure. You would probably have to back up all the MFS application partitions before upgrading.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

CrashHD said:


> I wish they'd hosed one of mine. I'd take the upgrade, reimage my drive, and consider it as having made off like a bandit.


I am happy continuing to use my TiVoHDs but if I lost one or both due to a TiVo error and was given a newer model for each loss also with lifetime, that would sure be acceptable. I just checked both of mine, both are on 11.0. It appears this error affected a very small group but if you are part of the group, it is important that it be addressed quickly.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

CrashHD said:


> I wish they'd hosed one of mine. I'd take the upgrade, reimage my drive, and consider it as having made off like a bandit.


I'm pretty sure you'd lose service on the old one, though, and they might even refuse to reactivate it.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Didn't someone report they had to turn in their THD?


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## canbonbon (Jun 10, 2009)

SullyND said:


> Didn't someone report they had to turn in their THD?


Yes I reported that. I have to send back my Tivo HD. Not only that, the return label came before the new Roamio was shipped. So they really want it back.

Also they have given me 30 days to transfer the shows to the new box. So during that period both will be active.


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## edso (Mar 22, 2002)

I received an email on Friday from Tivo letting me know that I was in the process of having my series 3 broken in some vague fashion. I called in and got the information on my upgrade paths. 1) Premiere for $0 2) Roamio for $99 3) Roamio Plus for $199. (No Pro option) all with moved lifetime service.

I decided over the weekend to go with the plus. Monday evening I tried to start moving my programs off of the DVR. (and DVR Expander).

I could see the list of programs, but could not download any. Kept getting a "file cannot be found error", even though I was able to see and select the files.

I tried from TivoDesktop 2.7, 2.8, and 2.8.2 all on different machines. No luck.
I logged in via the web interface, and got the same error.
I had no problem downloading from my old series 2.

Now I'm getting nervous. I try restarting the series 3, now I cannot see any external DVRs or servers or netflix, etc.

Tried rebooting again, same thing.

Also, can no longer connect with any of the versions of TivoDesktop to the device (including upgrading to 2.8.3 and the addon patch).

If copying over a crossover cable doesn't work when my new roamio gets here, I am going to be out over 500 programs. Arghhhhhhhh.

Recording and playback still seem to work as do connecting to Tivo either wired or wirelessly.

Anyone see this variant of the problem?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

I wonder what percentage of the HDs that got the bad roll-out were lifetimed?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@edso,

Apparently, based on the post just before yours, Tivo thinks you can transfer files from your broken box to your new one. If that turns out to be impossible, I would challenge them about how to avoid losing your recordings.


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## edso (Mar 22, 2002)

@dlfl

When I originally spoke with Tivo, they suggested that I act as quickly as possible to transfer the shows, unfortunately transferring via TivoDesktop failed as I described before rebooting the series 3 and TivoDesktop cannot even see the box after rebooting. So without a third party option, Tivo is saying my only hope is if the crossover cable works from Series3-Roamio Plus


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dlfl said:


> @edso,
> 
> Apparently, based on the post just before yours, Tivo thinks you can transfer files from your broken box to your new one. If that turns out to be impossible, I would challenge them about how to avoid losing your recordings.


It's pretty pitiful that recordings made on VCRs are more likely to survive than recordings made on the supposedly more advanced DVRs.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Is a crossover cable still needed? I thought the Ethernet port on Tivos auto negotiate. Is this not true?


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