# Tivo Premiere....HORRIBLE!



## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

I have been on the edge of picking up a Tivo Premiere and finally ordered and received one last week. Well I have to say this is the buggiest piece of crap. I love Tivo and I have 2 TivoHDs since they came out and love them. But I think the Premiere is a huge step backwards for Tivo. It may not be as bad as a Comcast DVR, but it is close.....

I have been evaluating the HD interface and overall I like the interface, but the system is so unresponsive at times. If you are thinking about picking one up, I highly recommend that you wait until Tivo pulls their heads out of the clouds and figures out how to fix the issues. Having to reboot every time the system gets flaky, which is A LOT, is not acceptable.

I may try and buy a used TivoHD and return this Premiere since I am still in the first 30 days. But before I do that I will switch to the SD interface before sending it back.....

I also plan on calling Tivo to complain....

-S


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Something might be wrong if you've had to reboot alot. All of my premieres have been running without issues. Only rebooting after a software update has been downloaded.


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## cjsiv (Jun 5, 2010)

I initially bought a premiere and returned it due to bugginess as well. Thought it was the biggest piece of crap ever created. I then got a free tivo premiere with a tv purchase a few months later (thanks amazon!!) and after software updates I have had absolutely no issues. I had an hd, too, so I understand what you are saying. Did you check to make sure you are running the latest software version. If for some reason it has an earlier version and hasn't been updated, that may be cause for the bugginess. If it is updated, you may have just gotten a bad one. I would swap it out before I pull the plug on the premiere all together. My hd downstairs seems quite dated now after using the premiere in our living room for awhile. I understand your frustration. Been there too. Hope you get things sorted out. Good luck.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

Mine only reboots occasionally


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## Mgnyc11 (Aug 5, 2010)

What type of Internet connection do you have? I have had 1 reboot in 6 months of owning it and have upgraded to a 2TB drive and absolutely love it.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

vurbano said:


> Mine only reboots occasionally


Just curious... Do you consider that acceptable? I wouldn't.

That said, I use mine only in SDUI, and for the three months I had it before it completely died and was replaced, it had never rebooted nor frozen. I have been using the replacement one for a week and it has never either.

(I will add that I don't think my TiVo HD ever froze, locked up, or incorrectly rebooted itself in three years I used it)


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## Quake97 (Apr 24, 2006)

Like others have said, my TiVo only reboots for software updates. This thing has come a long way since the day one release where it would crash all of the time and was sloooow. Sure, it's still slow, but it's acceptable to me and my family.

Joe


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

Well I had my 2nd event (on 3rd day of owning unit) where the Premiere would fail to respond when I hit the Tivo button. The guide and channel details would still appear, as did channel up/down changing. I switched over to the SD interface and rebooted and the unit is much better and actually responds to the remote.

I will check in with the HD interface when the next update comes out that addresses performance issues (and the remote issue).

Looks like Tivo released this box WAY too early.

-S


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## Claire199 (Dec 3, 2010)

I will second that "way too early". I am very close to returning mine after two weeks. My new premiere has never made a connection/download that I didn't initiate. It has connected about five times of the 30 or more attempts. The first successful download was made after about two days of attempts at 3 a.m. ET. Tivo recommended off-peak hours. Our other successes were at 6 a.m. and 7 a.m., etc. I have never bought any electronic device that has performed so poorly and I'm already very tired of it.

*UPDATE:*

Yay! It all works now! What else can I say? I guess it was a Tivo problem. We didn't do anything we hadn't tried before.

It's been working for about three days. We have even downloaded an Amazon HD VOD. Took two days to download (we have 25 Mbps) but we have 30 days to watch it, so that's fine. So, we have all the pages and menus and are receiving our auto scheduled downloads.


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## mimalmo (Oct 21, 2010)

3 months with two Premiere's over here and no problems.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

it's very very slowwwwww


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## JTalbert (Jan 1, 2001)

We have had a Premiere for about three weeks and we love it. No hangs, no reboots, no problem at all ( knock on wood ) I hope I don't jinx myself


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## jsjames (Sep 25, 2007)

StringFellow said:


> Well I had my 2nd event (on 3rd day of owning unit) where the Premiere would fail to respond when I hit the Tivo button. The guide and channel details would still appear, as did channel up/down changing. I switched over to the SD interface and rebooted and the unit is much better and actually responds to the remote.
> 
> I will check in with the HD interface when the next update comes out that addresses performance issues (and the remote issue).
> 
> ...


I have the same problem. I'm on my second Premiere after an exchange because of the rebooting during playback of shows and unresponsive remote commands. Now my replacement does it too. The way to stop it (so far anyway) is to unplug the network cable and not use HD menus. I'm really bummed I wish it would work as expected. I also have a Tivo HD that runs fine on the same network.


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## jmatero (Apr 9, 2003)

yeah, I've had my S3 since 2006 with quick response and ZERO issues and after just 24 hours of the premiere I want it back. The HD interface is terrible... not just because it's slow... but in its design. The old one was simple and just plain worked. The new one is WAY too complicated. Example:

Search for a program and add a season pass... and adjust the pass options. On non-hd interface (like my old S3 you're in and out of there in a jiffy.. minimal button clicks).

Try it on the HD interface.... TERRIBLE... slow.... wait... then back left.. then left.. then left. 

Also, the little window that continues to play your show while you're in a menu. What's the point when... as you switch BACK to the show... you see a black screen and LOSE the pic for a few seconds and it reappears full screen.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

I don't hate it, but it is a disappointment. The HD menu is soooo slow and that spinning green thingie reminds me of the old Mac System 7 days. I use the SD menus because our internet provider (Time Warner) seems to shut down randomly throughout the day and caused rebooting each time. I love the HD recording (always had old fashioned SD before) though and am hoping the faults are fixed soon.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

jmatero said:


> Search for a program and add a season pass... and adjust the pass options. On non-hd interface (like my old S3 you're in and out of there in a jiffy.. minimal button clicks).


Personally I prefer the additional options presented by the HD UI. For example on the SD UI you can't update the channel number of a season pass, but you can on the HD UI.

Also if it bothers you, you can always add them via TiVo.com which I find to be the quickest especially since they added back the option to allow default recording options which is something that disappeared after the series 2.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

jmatero said:


> yeah, I've had my S3 since 2006 with quick response and ZERO issues and after just 24 hours of the premiere I want it back. The HD interface is terrible... not just because it's slow... but in its design. The old one was simple and just plain worked. The new one is WAY too complicated.


Why not just switch back to the old interface then, It works just as well, if not better than an S3.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

btwyx said:


> Why not just switch back to the old interface then, It works just as well, if not better than an S3.


It is advertised on the Tivo web site that it has this.
New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery
If you have to use the SDUI for it work then Tivo is falsely advertising. I do not like to pay for some that does not do what is advertised. Would you pay for car that is advertised it has a v8 but instead it came with a 4 cylinder.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

caddyroger said:


> It is advertised on the Tivo web site that it has this.
> New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery
> If you have to use the SDUI for it work then Tivo is falsely advertising. I do not like to pay for some that does not do what is advertised. Would you pay for car that is advertised it has a v8 but instead it came with a 4 cylinder.


Isn't "optimized search" the "Collections" menus, and "discovery" the aptly named "discovery bar"? Neither of those features are found in the SDUI. No false advertising.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Just curious... Do you consider that acceptable? I wouldn't.
> 
> That said, I use mine only in SDUI, and for the three months I had it before it completely died and was replaced, it had never rebooted nor frozen. I have been using the replacement one for a week and it has never either.
> 
> (I will add that I don't think my TiVo HD ever froze, locked up, or incorrectly rebooted itself in three years I used it)


I think I experienced maybe 2 reboots early in the ownership. I havent seen anything in weeks and I m not sure if it had anything to do with my upgrading the Hard drive in it. So yes it is acceptable unless it starts doing it again. I have experienced no lockups or freezes. Just a couple of reboots as if it was forced by tivo out of the blue.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

caddyroger said:


> It is advertised on the Tivo web site that it has this.
> New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery
> If you have to use the SDUI for it work then Tivo is falsely advertising. I do not like to pay for some that does not do what is advertised. Would you pay for car that is advertised it has a v8 but instead it came with a 4 cylinder.


I would say that if your Premiere still doesn't function properly with when using the HD menus then one of 2 things is true:


Your Premiere is defective and TiVo should replace it
You have something wrong with your Internet connection

The last few days my Internet connection hasn't work worth a sh** (constant cut outs) and it has significantly effected how my Premiere functions in the HD menus. Nice and fast when my connection is up and working correctly and slow and a pain in the a** when I am having drop outs.

Thanks,


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I would say that if your Premiere still doesn't function properly with when using the HD menus then one of 2 things is true:
> 
> 
> Your Premiere is defective and TiVo should replace it
> ...


Uh...I totally disagree. I have a new premiere and when using the HDUI the unit sometimes fails to respond when I press the Tivo button (had the unit 3 days and had 2 occurrences of the unit failing to respond to the Tivo button). When I press the Tivo button the first time, the screen flashing and then NOTHING! If I press it again the unit does nothing, not even another screen flicker. The other buttons respond correctly, I can change channels, record shows, etc. And if you think about it, when you press the Tivo button, you get the HD stuff. The guide is still SD, as is channel info. etc. I have since changed to the SDUI and haven't had a single issue. My issue is 100% linked to the HD screens, nothing else!

The HDUI is fundamentally flawed and Tivo has failed to acknowledge the issues associated with the interface.

Edit: Oh and I have a low latency, high download speed internet connection and the screens are slow as crap! Blaming these issues on a defective hardware is bogus!! Read the forums and you will understand the issues are related to software, NOT solely hardware failures.

-S


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> Isn't "optimized search" the "Collections" menus, and "discovery" the aptly named "discovery bar"? Neither of those features are found in the SDUI. No false advertising.


 yes I know it not found found in the SDUI I have to use SDUI I can not use the HDUI.

This part of the page.

Never miss a show

* New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery
* Records up to 45 hours of HD programming; XL records up to 150 hours
* Find shows with exclusive TiVo features, like TiVo Search, WishList® searches, Season Pass® recordings and more
* Control live or recorded TV with pause, rewind (3 speeds), fast-forward (3 speeds), slow-mo and instant replay
* Record two shows at once while watching a previously recorded show

Here is the web site where it advertised

New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I would say that if your Premiere still doesn't function properly with when using the HD menus then one of 2 things is true:
> 
> 
> Your Premiere is defective and TiVo should replace it
> ...


My internet connection is just fine. I have a 12d 2u with comcast. I have tried the 20d 4u but it did not change the speed of the HDUI. Tivo will not replace the unit because they say it not defective because it is slow.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

double post


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Just curious... Do you consider that acceptable? I wouldn't.
> 
> That said, I use mine only in SDUI, and for the three months I had it before it completely died and was replaced, it had never rebooted nor frozen. I have been using the replacement one for a week and it has never either.
> 
> (I will add that I don't think my TiVo HD ever froze, locked up, or incorrectly rebooted itself in three years I used it)


I've had two Premiers set up since Thanksgiving or so. One's been fine, though it seems to drop off the network for MRV purposes occasionally. Rebooting both units seems to get things renegotiated, so TiVo may be using the Windows 3.1 SMB stack. The other has frozen twice, once displaying the HD menus, which I haven't used since, and once on Tuesday, when I came home to a black TV screen and it was unresponsive to IR and IP remotes.

So, yeah, these two new units have given me more trouble in a month than two S2DT boxes did in 5+ years.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

StringFellow said:


> Uh...I totally disagree. I have a new premiere and when using the HDUI the unit sometimes fails to respond when I press the Tivo button (had the unit 3 days and had 2 occurrences of the unit failing to respond to the Tivo button). When I press the Tivo button the first time, the screen flashing and then NOTHING! If I press it again the unit does nothing, not even another screen flicker. The other buttons respond correctly, I can change channels, record shows, etc. And if you think about it, when you press the Tivo button, you get the HD stuff. The guide is still SD, as is channel info. etc. I have since changed to the SDUI and haven't had a single issue. My issue is 100% linked to the HD screens, nothing else!
> 
> The HDUI is fundamentally flawed and Tivo has failed to acknowledge the issues associated with the interface.
> 
> ...


I have read the forum and yes some people are having problems however the Premiere's HDUI is not inherently slow or non-responsive if it was everyone would be seeing the same problems and many people are not, including me.

For people who have Premieres with problems TiVo should resolve them; if it is caused by defective hardware or something to do with software should not matter.

The statements I have issue with are the ones the insinuate or flat out state that the Premiere platform including the HDUI is inherently defective and/or nonfunctional. At this point I do not believe that is true. Of course none of us actually have enough data to know one way or another.

Thanks,


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> I have read the forum and yes some people are having problems however the Premiere's HDUI is not inherently slow or non-responsive if it was everyone would be seeing the same problems and many people are not, including me.


It is a terminology thing. I would say that *ALL* TiVo Premieres have an inherently "slow" and "non-responsive" HDUI, because compared to what I want and expect, it is too slow by design. People coming from a cable DVR, or a Series 2 might think the HDUI is fine. Many coming from an S3/HD who already were used to "faster" and were hoping for an HDUI even faster than the SDUI (sounds reasonable- much newer box, faster CPU) were sorely disappointed.

Some people have problems with it being even slower than what we would think is typical for a Premiere.... some of those people might be having network issues or performance problems that could be contributing to it. Others might have some other problem.

Then there is the time factor- since the TiVo Premiere really *has* improved in performance since it was first released through several updates. The HDUI went from miserably slow/unresponsive, to somewhat tolerably slow.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> The statements I have issue with are the ones the insinuate or flat out state that the Premiere platform including the HDUI is inherently defective and/or nonfunctional.


To quote your earlier post:



atmuscarella said:


> The last few days my Internet connection hasn't work worth a sh** (constant cut outs) and it has significantly effected how my Premiere functions in the HD menus. Nice and fast when my connection is up and working correctly and slow and a pain in the a** when I am having drop outs.


I would consider this to be an inherent defect in the Premiere. Any device that uses the internet must be tolerant of network failures, either locally or out in the net. The very nature of the internet is that failures can and do happen. For the HDUI of the Tivo to be intolerant of networking problems is a flaw.

It would be as if my wordprocessor on my desktop computer started getting slow and dropping keystrokes because my internet connection went down. Such behavior would be unacceptable and would indicate a significant flaw in my desktop computer, the wordprocessor, or the OS.

You don't need the Internet to draw a menu. If the Internet isn't available, you don't draw the dynamic parts of the interface.

I don't know why people make excuses for this device when it is clearly not designed correctly.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

smbaker said:


> I would consider this to be an inherent defect in the Premiere. Any device that uses the internet must be tolerant of network failures, either locally or out in the net. The very nature of the internet is that failures can and do happen. For the HDUI of the Tivo to be intolerant of networking problems is a flaw.
> 
> .


My Premiere is acting just like this web browser on my computer - my computer/browser sees it has an Internet connection and keeps trying to load the requested data but is working way slow do to the problems I am having. This is what the Premiere is now doing - it is clear it is trying to load data from the Internet and is having the same problems my commuter is and the results are the same it is slowing down any time Internet data is being loaded.

I will post back when my Internet gets fix on what that does for the Premiere.

I do agree that over all the Premiere should be tolerant of Internet problems and my unit is still working well any place that doesn't load data from the Internet.

Thanks,


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I have read the forum and yes some people are having problems however the Premiere's HDUI is not inherently slow or non-responsive if it was everyone would be seeing the same problems and many people are not, including me.
> 
> For people who have Premieres with problems TiVo should resolve them; if it is caused by defective hardware or something to do with software should not matter.
> 
> ...


I guess your idea of slow is sure different from mine. The issues are all over this forum regarding slow and none responsive screens/units.

Did you ever own an older TiVo? Have you tried the SDUI? Huge difference between these and the Premiere HDUI.

Months later and TiVo has yet to resolve the issues shows that they really do not know how to resolve the problem. This just proves the software and associated design is bad. Do I think they will resolve the issues long term, I do not think so until it is a complete redesign of the software.

If the issue was hardware related, TiVo would be telling people who call in to get their units replaced, which they are not.

Your statement "... it is caused by defective hardware or something to do with software should not matter." shows you have no clue the difference between hardware and the associated impact of poorly designed software.

Glad your unit meets your expectations, but mine sure does not (and a lot of others agree with me).


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> My Premiere is acting just like this web browser on my computer


Exactly. And we don't WANT a DVR that acts like a web browser (nor do I want a car, DVD player, or refrigerator that acts like one either). If they want to load additional information about stuff, it should be done in one or more of the following ways:

1) As a separate task (threading- hello dual core)
2) Asynchronously (implied by above)
3) As part of the guide data (get the crap some other time and store it, plenty of space)
4) At off times (My TiVo is unused at least 3/4 of every day)
5) Cached (really, this is almost 2011)
6) Non-blocking in any way (don't force me to wait or hold of the rest of the UI)
7) Only if the user proactively selects to wait (let me choose when delays happen)
8) User control over turning it off (perhaps I don't want that kind of info anyway)

All the basic functions one can do in the SDUI should be available and just as fast in the HDUI, regardless of the speed or presence of an Internet connection. If that means adding additional steps on the user to select "more info from Internet" or whatnot, so be it.

And, yet, gathering and displaying information from the Internet is not the ONLY reason the HDUI is much slower than it should be.


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## jmatero (Apr 9, 2003)

1. The perception of speed is different for all. The reality is, if you "upgraded" from a S3/HD you actually "downgraded" if you use the HD menus. if you're coming from the S2 or another DVR, you "side graded".

2. The HD menu design is "pretty" but that's it. They took what was important on, say, "my shows" and made it SMALLER... And filled the rest of the HD screen with Internet-dependent artwork and small screen view of playing show. If they wanted to improve the "my shows" menu... They should have used the extra screen real estate to just display more of "my shows". As it stands now, 2/3 of the "my shows" menu... has nothing to do with my shows.

3. The small window playing the show you're watching is a gimmick. A smarter choice would have been to pause what you were watching when entering the menu... Then, continue playing where you left off when exiting the menu.

The crazy part of all of this? They're selling a product that answers a bunch of questions TiVo users never asked. Or to be more clear, they fixed things that weren't broken. The interface went from Mac to Windows.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I find this all very amusing. 

We have people who want the Premiere to be great DVR and have a fast efficient UI and we have people who want the Premiere to be an Internet access device like Google TV, Apple TV, or a Ruko player and of course most (I assume) want it to be both. 

Well TiVo made an attempt to be both. 

For those who want the Premiere to primarily be a DVR you have the SDUI it is very fast, very easy to use, and very efficient. 

For those who want the Premiere to be more of an Internet access device you have the HDUI. I hate to break this to you but any device that constantly accesses the Internet for the data it displays is going to be subject to how available that data is. If anyone wants to see how dependent the HDUI is on Internet access just disconnect your Premiere from the Internet and go into the HDUI and see what still works and what is missing even from the stuff that does work - I think you will be surprised.

For those that are unhappy with what TiVo is Offering all I can tell you is that for my Premiere the HDUI is fast and works great when my Internet connection is functioning properly and the parts of it not dependent on downloading info form the Internet still work fast even when my Internet connection is crapping out - what does slow down is the info being downloaded from the Internet before it is displayed. 

For those who are asking if I know anything about anything, I can tell you I am not a programmer so I can not comment much on the development of software. However I did work for an IT shop for 8 years (30,000+ users) and did work with hardware extensively. All I can tell you is that telling the difference between a software problem and and hardware problem is not as easy as some people make it out to be. In my experience most problems ended up being either User or Hardware. 

Also for those who have questions about if I have compared my Premiere to any other TiVos - I suggest you look at my signature I currently have 4 different model TiVos running in the same AV rack and have compared the TiVos to each other extensively. In my opinion the Premiere is an evolutionary upgrade to a TiVo HD or a Series 3. I would not recommend replacing a functioning Series 3 or TiVo HD with a Premiere however I would recommend getting a Premiere if someone needed a new DVR. As a DVR I give it an A - as an Internet access device I give it a B. I do believe there is room for improvement but the same is true for every electronic device I use. 

Thanks,


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> We have people who want the Premiere to be great DVR and have a fast efficient UI and we have people who want the Premiere to be an Internet access device like Google TV, Apple TV, or a Ruko player and of course most (I assume) want it to be both.
> 
> Well TiVo made an attempt to be both.


There's no reason why they can't do both. My Blu-ray player is every bit as internet-enabled as my Tivo. I think what frustrates most of us is that these are relatively simple and straightforward design decisions and they've been done wrong and there's no visible attempt to correct them, or indication that management even knows a correction is necessary.

There's absolutely no reason why the UI should be slowed down by a bad internet connection. It should simply not draw the dynamic portions of the display. In fact, the HDUI should work fine with no internet connection whatsoever. It's a menu, it's not rocket science. Making the menu dependent on the Internet is simply wrong. It's a flaw.

This whole thing feels like some haphazardly thrown together student project that was designed to meet the minimum requirements without adequate supervision. It worked well enough for whomever engineered to show it off in a controlled demo and enthusiastically shout "See! It does everything it's supposed to!" but fails miserably in the real world. We all remember when the device first launched and was horribly slow due to failures to cache images, something that's two-decade-old common practice. These are amateurish mistakes.



atmuscarella said:


> telling the difference between a software problem and and hardware problem is not as easy as some people make it out to be


Having a static menu be dependent on an unreliable medium like the Internet is a software problem. It's not a "bug" per se, but is a software design flaw. It can be greatly exasperated by having a hardware problem such as a bad LAN (wired or wireless) or a bad cable modem or a cable cable connection. Real world users will have Internet connectivity issues, and that's why these systems need to be fault tolerant.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

smbaker said:


> There's no reason why they can't do both. My Blu-ray player is every bit as internet-enabled as my Tivo. I think what frustrates most of us is that these are relatively simple and straightforward design decisions and they've been done wrong and there's no visible attempt to correct them, or indication that management even knows a correction is necessary.
> 
> There's absolutely no reason why the UI should be slowed down by a bad internet connection. It should simply not draw the dynamic portions of the display. In fact, the HDUI should work fine with no internet connection whatsoever. It's a menu, it's not rocket science. Making the menu dependent on the Internet is simply wrong. It's a flaw.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately the area of software design and development is one where I have no expertise. So I can offer no fact based opinion on how hard or easy it would be to do what you are saying needs to be done. I also have nothing very good to look at form some other company to judge what is possible. Both my Panasonic Blu-Ray player and my Onkyo Receiver are Internet enabled and both are very slow and clunky when it comes to their Internet features - which are isolated from the rest of the menus so when they are not working it does not effect anything else similar to TiVo's SDUI.

Given the problems with Google TV and the resource Google has I am thinking this is not as easy as one might think. Just in case anyone missed it Logitech is halting production of the Revue until Google can rewrite the software.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/24/logitech-said-to-be-halting-revue-production-until-google-tv-sof/

Thanks,


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

smbaker said:


> There's absolutely no reason why the UI should be slowed down by a bad internet connection. It should simply not draw the dynamic portions of the display. In fact, the HDUI should work fine with no internet connection whatsoever. It's a menu, it's not rocket science. Making the menu dependent on the Internet is simply wrong. It's a flaw.


Not going to pretend to fully comprehend 100% of this, but what I do I agree with completely. I had no idea this was going to be the case beforehand. My fault for not doing more research, I guess. Time Warner is our only viable broadband option at present and their ideas of "consistent" and "reliable" internet service is a joke. I had no idea a crappy ISP would affect my Premiere.

Is this something that *can* be fixed or do I need to start anticipating an S5?


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> Both my Panasonic Blu-Ray player and my Onkyo Receiver are Internet enabled and both are very slow and clunky when it comes to their Internet features - which are isolated from the rest of the menus so when they are not working it does not effect anything else similar to TiVo's SDUI.


You've hit the key there, the internet features are isolated from the menus. I have an Onkyo internet enabled receiver as well (great product, btw) and although it does have some internet flakiness, it's limited to only the internet portion of its capabilities.

As far as the logitech/googletv issues, that's another case of product being rushed to market before it was ready. I noticed this when I went into best buy and tried to play with a revue -- it clearly was no ready for prime time. It wasn't even ready for beta. The issues went beyond reliability; the UI itself seemed counter-intuitive and incomplete. Strangely I received an email from Amazon just this morning trying to sell me a revue.



mec1991 said:


> Is this something that can be fixed or do I need to start anticipating an S5?


As far as I know, switching to the SDUI will fix the issues. That's a bit of a shame if the reason you bought the S4 was due to the HDUI, but at least you don't own a brick, it's still a fully functional DVR.

You should also raise hell with your internet provider if your internet is unreliable. It took me over a half dozen visits from comcast over the last two years, eventually finding a tech who was competent enough to troubleshoot the problem to a bad splice by the street.

Nothing about this is un-fixable as these are software problems and software can be patched. 8 months is enough time for a dedicated team to have completely rewritten the HDUI if they would have deemed it necessary when the Premiere launched.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm with smbaker, can't fathom why Tivo is not caching all of the Internet content for use when the connection goes down or is slow. Or hell, just to make the damn UI work faster. It's not rocket science, they probably could've done most of it with a Squid proxy.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> I'm with smbaker, can't fathom why Tivo is not caching all of the Internet content for use when the connection goes down or is slow. Or hell, just to make the damn UI work faster. It's not rocket science, they probably could've done most of it with a Squid proxy.


I think they did add some caching in one of the patches. The problem that we're currently seeing I'm guessing occurs when there is a cache miss and it has to fetch remotely, or something to do with fetching metadata or other guide information. Regardless, it can't be that hard to diagnose and fix. A general purpose PC with two NICs can be turned into an unreliable network simulator in an afternoon or less. There's opensource tools for doing so.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night! I'm gonna go watch somethin' on ma' Tivo...


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

smbaker said:


> Having a static menu be dependent on an unreliable medium like the Internet is a software problem. It's not a "bug" per se, but is a software design flaw. It can be greatly exasperated by having a hardware problem such as a bad LAN (wired or wireless) or a bad cable modem or a cable cable connection. Real world users will have Internet connectivity issues, and that's why these systems need to be fault tolerant.


You are so true!! Everyone's Internet will go down at some point and the premiere should function as a DVR during short or intermittent outages. The thought of my premiere not functioning as a basic DVR (menu functionality, menu speed, etc.) during an outage like this is a huge concern. All to internet "special" content should be a bonus when the connection exists AND is stable to support it.


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

smbaker said:


> I think they did add some caching in one of the patches. The problem that we're currently seeing I'm guessing occurs when there is a cache miss and it has to fetch remotely, or something to do with fetching metadata or other guide information. Regardless, it can't be that hard to diagnose and fix. A general purpose PC with two NICs can be turned into an unreliable network simulator in an afternoon or less. There's opensource tools for doing so.
> 
> Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night! I'm gonna go watch somethin' on ma' Tivo...


Internet content on the Premiere should be scalable based on you connection speed. Slow or a lack of Internet should yield basic DVR functionality (i.e.. SDUI). If I can stream reliable HD content, I should get the full HDUI experience but will snappy menus, etc.

Right now it appears an "all or nothing" stance has been applied to the current software solution.

Hopefully things change soon and TIVo can focus their attention on innovation and not software bug fixes and redesign of current software.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

StringFellow said:


> You are so true!! Everyone's Internet will go down at some point and the premiere should function as a DVR during short or intermittent outages. The thought of my premiere not functioning as a basic DVR (menu functionality, menu speed, etc.) during an outage like this is a huge concern. All to internet "special" content should be a bonus when the connection exists AND is stable to support it.


The Premiere functions as a basic DVR during Internet outage. It can't add/find new shows to record, but it will record already scheduled shows, select a show for playback, pause, rewind, etc.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Dave, the trouble is (at least for mine) that it reboots when the internet goes down. I think I know the Premiere's animation theme by heart and I have only owned it a few weeks. 

But, as smbaker wrote, if it is kept in SD mode it works fine.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

mec1991 said:


> Dave, the trouble is (at least for mine) that it reboots when the internet goes down.


Strange. Mine doesnt reboot, except when it installs software updates.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

I wish that were true for me.


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## Troll1678 (Apr 15, 2008)

I bought my Tivo Premiere XL about two months ago and overall I love it.

Sure I went through some BS getting everything FINALLY straightened out with TWC. I'll also mummble sometimes over the sluggishness of the HD GUI.

But once I hit Play and watch my recordings, after coming home from work, all is forgotten and forgiven!

Only had to reset once and that was after its initial software update. I have spotted the Dreaded Green Circle.

When Tivo gets the GUI fixed, and they will, this is and will continue to be my Premiere choice of DVRs.

Chuck


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

DaveWhittle said:


> Strange. Mine doesnt reboot, except when it installs software updates.


Why is that strange? Does your Internet go down like mec1991's does?


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

Troll1678 said:


> When Tivo gets the GUI fixed, and they will, this is and will continue to be my Premiere choice of DVRs.


We're heading on 9 months in and no significant progress on the GUI while a number of other features unimportant to the core functionality have been added instead. Are you SURE they plan to FINISH the GUI at all? My original bet back in May was it would take until the end of 2011, but now I'm not so sure...


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I love my Premieres. I use the SD interface mostly because I like it better. What I really love is the lightning fast networking. I can pause a show in the living room and resume it in the bedroom and not skip a beat. If I had to venture a guess, Tivo is setting themselves up for a remote viewing box. Just a guess.


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## treat2day (Mar 27, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> I have read the forum and yes some people are having problems however the Premiere's HDUI is not inherently slow or non-responsive if it was everyone would be seeing the same problems and many people are not, including me.
> 
> For people who have Premieres with problems TiVo should resolve them; if it is caused by defective hardware or something to do with software should not matter.
> 
> ...


After several software updates, I can say maybe 2 reboots and I was one of the first to upgrade regardless of the "beta" rumors.

I love the Premier over the TivoHD.

The first few months may have been unacceptable to some folks but the same can be said for most things not operating 100 percent.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I wonder why I didn't just buy a bigger drive every time I get the rotating green donut of death.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

cheesesteak said:


> I wonder why I didn't just buy a bigger drive every time I get the rotating green donut of death.


The two are completely unrelated. Not sure I understand your comment.


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## gothaggis (Mar 3, 2010)

i think its pretty obvious they will never fix the speed issues with the HD UI interface in the premieres - if they could, they would have by now. a shame.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

Interesting... I got the TiVo Slide remote for Christmas. I remember others saying the blutooth in the Slide remote operated faster and zippier, but I was skeptical.

Sure enough, after using the standard IR remote for over half a year, switching to the Slide was a noticeable improvement in operating speed. The button presses just zip instantly. I didn't realize the lag from the standard remote, but really feel the HD-UI is faster and more responsive with the Slide.

If TiVo had packed the Slide remote with the original XL, I bet people who upgraded from series 3 units would be happier.


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## patnmike427 (Sep 9, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> I find this all very amusing.


It sure is...



atmuscarella said:


> We have people who want the Premiere to be great DVR and have a fast efficient UI and we have people who *want* the Premiere to be an Internet access device like Google TV, Apple TV, or a Ruko player and of course most (I assume) *want* it to be both.


THANK YOU!!! A voice of reason amongst the clamor and strident complaining...it frightens me that in roughly 1 human generation (20-25 years), we've gone from the courteous "I'd like to have/it would be nice to get" to the selfish, nasty arrogance of "I WANT IT/I WANT IT NOW/I WANT IT CHEAP OR FREE". Blame the exponential growth of technology, blame the societal desire for instantaneous gratification...but please, do not forget this dictum: Until you sit in a position where YOU have to make critical business decisions that not only affect you, but the livelihoods of hundreds or thousands of employees or subordinates; and, must consider those investors (public or private) who have a stake in the outcome of your decisions, please avoid passing judgment. It's incredibly easy to sit on the sidelines and say "They should have done this or that" (if you didn't know, that's where the term "armchair quarterback" is from), but when you're on that field and a 350 lb. tackle is in your face, let's see what YOU would do.



atmuscarella said:


> I do believe there is room for improvement but the same is true for every electronic device I use.


Yes sir...but it almost seems that in 2010, the attitude is one of "they should have improved it to what I WANT-and they should have done it yesterday."



jmatero said:


> 1. The perception of speed is different for all.


You're right; ask anyone who races for a living-Formula 1, NASCAR, Indy cars, motorcycles-how it feels when driving on public roads at 60-70 mph after zipping along at 200 mph. Or, spend a few hours on an interstate in the Western US at 90+ mph, get off the highway onto local roads...50 mph feels like a crawl.



jmatero said:


> 2. The HD menu design is "pretty" but that's it. They took what was important on, say, "my shows" and made it SMALLER... And filled the rest of the HD screen with Internet-dependent artwork and small screen view of playing show. If they wanted to improve the "my shows" menu... They should have used the extra screen real estate to just display more of "my shows". As it stands now, 2/3 of the "my shows" menu... has nothing to do with my shows.
> 
> 3. The small window playing the show you're watching is a gimmick. A smarter choice would have been to pause what you were watching when entering the menu... Then, continue playing where you left off when exiting the menu.


These are opinions...small window a "gimmick"? Ask any DirecTV DVR user if they consider it a gimmick...



jmatero said:


> The crazy part of all of this? They're selling a product that answers a bunch of questions _TiVo users never asked_.


How do you know that? No offense, but just because you were not asked doesn't mean TiVo didn't request or accept input from end users.



jmatero said:


> Or to be more clear, they fixed things that weren't broken. The interface went from Mac to Windows.


Again-purely your opinion, which you are entitled to state.



smbaker said:


> There's no reason why they can't do both.


Not entirely true...I'll get to that below.



smbaker said:


> My Blu-ray player is every bit as internet-enabled as my Tivo.


True...but, let me ask you: Do you recall that, just a short time ago (maybe a year or two), the painfully long delays with Blu-ray players...you know, from power on to an actual disc menu? And sorry, you're comparing apples and oranges here, equating a Blu-ray player to a TiVo...one has a very specific purpose(s), the other device has multiple functions.



smbaker said:


> I think what frustrates most of us is that these are relatively simple and straightforward design decisions


Correct statement-it's a DESIGN decision...just as I may like the design of an old Victorian-style home, and you prefer a contemporary "McMansion" house, both of us are allowed to have our own opinions...and in the end, our houses do the EXACT SAME THING-provide shelter.



smbaker said:


> ...and they've been done _wrong_ and there's no visible attempt to _correct_ them


As above, your opinion...question: Do these items function *as designed*? IF so, then there's nothing to "correct"...



smbaker said:


> There's absolutely no reason why the UI should be slowed down by a bad internet connection. It should simply not draw the dynamic portions of the display. In fact, the HDUI should work fine with no internet connection whatsoever. It's a menu, it's not rocket science. Making the menu dependent on the Internet is simply wrong. It's a flaw.


Opinions all...here's a news bulletin: Ask any DirecTV subscriber what happened when rain fade takes out your signal...you cannot get the guide up on screen, the menu is unresponsive...because THEIR "interface" is largely dependent on receiving that satellite signal...lose the signal-lose most functionality. So, by no means is TiVo alone in that regard...



smbaker said:


> Real world users will have Internet connectivity issues, and that's why these systems need to be fault tolerant.


And just HOW do you suggest TiVo do so? Fault tolerant is generally associated with vital business server functions-not a home entertainment device! Should TiVo equip their units with a 3G cellular module, ala the Kindle, so that when an internet connection goes down, it becomes active? How much extra you wanna pay for that? And, what if cell service is NOT available in a particular person's area? I commonly ask friends who have dropped hard-wired home phone service because they use their cell phones exclusively this question: "How are you going to call 9-1-1 from your cell in an emergency if there's a large blackout that knocks out cellular service? What are you going to do THEN?"

Now, to address the "Premiere should be ultra-fast, and do everything I want perfectly" brigade...as I mentioned above, I strongly suggest that you consider swapping jobs for a week or month with TiVo's, or any manufacturing company's, CEO or C-level executives. (Please note that I am not, nor ever have been one-I'm just your average network admin...) Earlier in this response, I talked about "armchair quarterbacking"; think about something simple like "fault tolerance" above; consider the following that a business decision maker must ponder...

---How much extra will it cost to implement 3G or other "backup" means? Hardware? Software programming?
---Which cell provider do we partner with?
---What happens if the provider merges/goes under?
---What do we do for those customers who lack cell service at their house?
---What if these costs increase the price to a point that customers feel is too much?
---How do we handle lifetime vs. monthly subscriptions?

I'm certain there are many more items, but you get my drift.

Finally, for those of you who have not "been around", let me toss some factoids at you:

---I bought my first cellular phone in 1987: A permanently-mounted, corded device more commonly known then as a "mobile" phone...and I got FORTY minutes of talk time for $40, and paid $0.45/minute after that...

---The first "SVHS" VCRs-with stunning S-video "quality"-cost well over $600.

So, to be honest, to IMHO, "nitpick" some annoyances with TiVo is quite difficult to swallow...


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Someone has way too much holiday time on their hands...


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## jmatero (Apr 9, 2003)

Patnmike427: We're consumers and have choices. We pass judgement by buying... Or NOT buying... your product. Tivo Premieres aren't exactly flying off the shelves. Customers clearly are passing judgement. It appears as though TiVo believes the premiere is not selling because it competes with cable co. offerings ($5/month) and stand alone boxes like Apple TV ($99). I contend TiVo is not failing just because of the price. They're failing because the competition in the DVR world has caught up and a multitude of boxes do on-demand better making TiVo a poor choice for the money for anyone other than a very small percentage of the market getting HD OTA. 

As so many of us are using the Premiere in SD mode, (primarily because of speed but I'm willing to bet we use the device mainly as a DVR so we're not missing anything): can anyone enlighten me as to what TiVo does so well as a DVR that everyone with a cable co. DVR should ditch it and spend hundreds of dollars AND pay a monthly subscription? There's no doubt TiVo is a better DVR... But there's a reason Tivo's subscriber base is half of what it was in the glory days: 

1: It is a DVR first and cable companies provide DVRs to the masses. The interfaces are not as good as tivo for sure, but they aren't dreadful for the most part... And have gotten to the point now where many are quite good. And to most, why spend $300+ on a box and pay a monthly subscription when they can get one from the cable co. for $5 a month... And not have to worry about replacing it if it breaks... And get free lifetime SW and HW upgrades.

2: The non-DVR features of TiVo are a mess. Instead of refining, say, the top few features the on-demand audience utilizes, TiVo piled 20+ features that most other boxes do much better. Movie tickets, weather, news, stocks, blah blah blah

I have 2 boxes connected to my HDTV right now: 

1: A TiVo Premier (SD menus) for DVR.
2: A new Apple TV for on-demand video.

Both are the best at what they do right now. Had TiVo just worked on killer interfaces for new release on demand (amazon), Netflix, and YouTube, I (and millions of others I suspect) would have one box. Just my 2cents.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

patnmike427 said:


> ..... Until you sit in a position where YOU have to make critical business decisions that not only affect you, but the livelihoods of hundreds or thousands of employees or subordinates; and, must consider those investors (public or private) who have a stake in the outcome of your decisions, please avoid passing judgment. ...


I. and millions of others do sit in that position. We're called consumers. What we WANT we buy affecting those livelihoods that you are talking about. And we're not buying the Premier in droves.....


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

patnmike427 said:


> And just HOW do you suggest TiVo do so? Fault tolerant is generally associated with vital business server functions-not a home entertainment device! Should TiVo equip their units with a 3G cellular module, ala the Kindle, so that when an internet connection goes down, it becomes active?


Let me quote wikipedia: "_Fault-tolerance or graceful degradation is the property that enables a system (often computer-based) to continue operating properly in the event of the failure of (or one or more faults within) some of its components. If its operating quality decreases at all, the decrease is proportional to the severity of the failure_"

I've said this multiple times, including probably the message from which you quoted but apparently failed to comprehend: A static menu does not require an Internet connection. When the Internet is unavailable, you don't draw the dynamic aspects. That's called fault-tolerant design.

You're either trying to be purposely foolish by suggesting the only way to ensure fault tolerance is for Tivo include a 3G modem or you don't know what the term means.

If the device reboots/lockups/slowsdown/fails due to a lost Internet connection, then it is a flaw. If you still cannot understand this then please explain to me why it is correct behavior for the Tivo to function in this way.


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## sbq (Feb 6, 2010)

Claire199 said:


> We have even downloaded an Amazon HD VOD. Took two days to download (we have 25 Mbps) but we have 30 days to watch it, so that's fine. So, we have all the pages and menus and are receiving our auto scheduled downloads.


If it took you 2 days then something is wrong with your network connection, either your TiVO connection to your home network, or your connection to the Internet. I only have a 3MBps DSL connection and I can download an Amazon HD VOD in about 4-6 hours.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

patnmike427 said:


> Now, to address the "Premiere should be ultra-fast, and do everything I want perfectly" brigade...as I mentioned above, I strongly suggest that you consider swapping jobs for a week or month with TiVo's, or any manufacturing company's, CEO or C-level executives.


Oh, I strongly suggest it too. I could fire all the engineers and hire people who know what they are doing . The computer in the tivo box is perfectly capable of running a fast efficient interface. The abomination they have wedged into it needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth and replace with something that works. And it is clearly not just network problems. The best example is deleting a program. All that needs to do is move the directory entry for it over to the recently deleted directory, yet more often than not it takes 30 or 40 seconds just to delete a program. That alone points to horrible design decisions that have nothing to do with the network interface.

I have a 10 year old Handera palmtop with the worlds feeblest processor, and it works perfectly well. It can delete a file as fast as you can poke the screen. The processor in the tivo box is a supercomputer compared to the old palmtop, yet it struggles with the most elementary operations. It needs a rewrite from scratch.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

30 to 40 seconds? I hit the clear button and it is deleted in a split second.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

> 30 or 40 seconds just to delete a program


Good lord! I have never experienced anything but an immediate / split second delete! Send it back!


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Good lord! I have never experienced anything but an immediate / split second delete! Send it back!


You need more programs/groups/season passes/recordings in progress.

Sometimes I get a 1-2 second delete, but more often than not I get a 2-5 second delete, expecially if I'm coming out of a show I just finished and deleted. It's NOT immediate on ANY of our Premiere boxes. Occasionally I'll get a 30 second+ delete, but that's rare.

It's also a joy to use in a long list where you hit clear 2 or 3 times to delete a number of shows in a row and expect it to end up one place and it decides to move the cursor +1 or -2 or some random amount and you end up deleting the wrong show. There's nothing immediate or speedy about the HDUI, and deleting even in the SDUI is slower and less accurate than it should be.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

curiousgeorge said:


> You need more programs/groups/season passes/recordings in progress.
> 
> Sometimes I get a 1-2 second delete, but more often than not I get a 2-5 second delete, expecially if I'm coming out of a show I just finished and deleted. It's NOT immediate on ANY of our Premiere boxes. Occasionally I'll get a 30 second+ delete, but that's rare.
> 
> It's also a joy to use in a long list where you hit clear 2 or 3 times to delete a number of shows in a row and expect it to end up one place and it decides to move the cursor +1 or -2 or some random amount and you end up deleting the wrong show. There's nothing immediate or speedy about the HDUI, and deleting even in the SDUI is slower and less accurate than it should be.


I transferred all of my existing season passes from my s3 to my premier before I moved it into the bedroom. I have a lot!

1 to 2 second is fine. 5 would be annoying, but 30 is something that would bother me.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

bradleys said:


> [to delete a program] 1 to 2 second is fine. 5 would be annoying, but 30 is something that would bother me.


OMG. That is a good example of different expectations and tolerances. When I choose to delete a program, I want and expect it to be nearly instantaneous like deleting a file is on my computer, my laptop, my netbook, my phone, or even my car (for example, canceling a route).

0.1 to 0.33 seconds is fine. 0.5 seconds would be annoying, but 1+ seconds is just BAD DESIGN.


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## treat2day (Mar 27, 2010)

jmatero said:


> 1: It is a DVR first and cable companies provide DVRs to the masses. The interfaces are not as good as tivo for sure, but they aren't dreadful for the most part... And have gotten to the point now where many are quite good. And to most, why spend $300+ on a box and pay a monthly subscription when they can get one from the cable co. for $5 a month... And not have to worry about replacing it if it breaks... And get free lifetime SW and HW upgrades.


The math here is not exact.

Cable companies charge a monthly fee for the "standard" box, the remote and separate cost if you own a HD box.

After renting this box for X amount of years and decide to change service or move, you must return or pay a $400 "no return" equipment fee. B

I would rather own my TiVo, pay my fee to TiVo, use all the features on TiVo and internet.

Time Warner can keep their junk box with the clunky remote that makes users crazy. I a more advanced than many and find the entire cable box setup messy when trying to interact with other devices.

TiVo does a great deal in respect to simplicity.

TiVo cost if not different than an iPhone or iPad. Either you can afford the cost up front and if not you go to the cheaper option for the masses.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Technically, your examples are different than what the TiVo is doing. That being said, a well written database should process deletes quickly. Sub second should be expected - depending how many hooks into the data structure you have...

From what I am reading - the poster is hitting clear multiple times to delete several shows in the list - each time he does that it has to run through the delete script. Too many deletes and eventually the TiVo pukes and viola - delay!

I just tested this with all those garbage childrens shows that my TiVo suggestions seems to like to record and I was able to bring up the donut for ~ 2 seconds after about 2 dozen delete requests. Also, since the rapid fire deletes are happening faster than the TiVo can process the request, I did notice that it will continue to delete through the list after I stopped pushing the clear button. It was not deleting more than I requested, it was just working through my delete requests.

Oh, and if the keys aren't optimized properly - then the more data the longer it can take to process a delete.

So my question is - have you recently experienced more than a second delay on an individual delete? This is good feedback and can help diagnose a process that may need to be optimized.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

bradleys said:


> So my question is - have you recently experienced more than a second delay on an individual delete? This is good feedback and can help diagnose a process that may need to be optimized.


Actually deleting a single show is normally what I do, and that seems to have (or seem like) a much larger delay than deleting a bunch of them in a row. I strongly suspect what is taking the time isn't the delete itself, but the painfully slow composing of the new menu of shows with the deleted one removed so it can update the display (another process which should obviously be rapid in a user interface).

I can also get it completely stuck on a delete forever quite easily: If I play the beginning of one of the shows in tivo suggestions (usually the largest folder), then go back to the suggestions menu because I've decided to delete it, then it is now the show running in the preview window. At least 5 out of 10 times if I try to delete the show currently in preview the tivo will just be stuck forever. The little x will show up, but the show never disappears from the list. I have to do something like switch to live TV then navigate back to the list and delete it again to make it actually go away.


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

sbq said:


> If it took you 2 days then something is wrong with your network connection, either your TiVO connection to your home network, or your connection to the Internet. I only have a 3MBps DSL connection and I can download an Amazon HD VOD in about 4-6 hours.


Uh, Amazon HD VOD stinks on TiVoHDs as well. I have tried Amazon VOD twice and both took 12-18 hours to download each movie. After the 2nd failed attempt with Amazon VOD, I went to my PS3 and steamed the same movie flawlessly. I personally think amazon servers are to blame. Amazon VOD customer service had no idea why it was taking so long. I no longer use Amazon VOD. I use VuDu for my movies with no problems at all. Btw, I have a 20 Mbps Internet connection.


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

bradleys said:


> ...
> 
> So my question is - have you recently experienced more than a second delay on an individual delete? This is good feedback and can help diagnose a process that may need to be optimized.


My deletes vary - from immediate to noticeable delay, 2 or maybe even 3 seconds (I am using SD UI). That's for individual deletes, I never do multiple deletes rapidly (I have suggestions turned off).


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Went to watch TV this morning and could tell the Premiere had restarted again overnight even though we now always use the SD menu unless we watch a Netflix movie. I checked the network connection and yep, it had failed, no doubt due to yet another Time Warner "timeout". I did a manual connection and all is well again - for now.

I never understood the complaining before owning one but I do now. 
We have owned TiVos going back to 2001 and even my Sony S1 still plugs along fine on SD cable (the only trouble I have ever had with any model was that bizarre dialup failure issue with it a year or so ago but that was fixed).

I love the HD recording and being able to stream Netflix and I understand many of you guys own multiple units and have never had a glitch but for me this thing is just not ready.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

mec1991 said:


> we now always use the SD menu unless we watch a Netflix movie.


Watching a Netflix stream is identical, regardless of SDUI or HDUI.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Thanks for the info. 

For some reason, I thought it was lower quality that way and never used it. 

Live and learn...


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

Should I buy one? Here is the background.... Was a Direct TV customer for over a decade. Moved a number of times without problems, then moved to an area with no local channels provided via DTV and no easy way to OTA a couple of channels I wanted. Dropped Direct TV and went with local Bresnan digital cable. In the time I was with Direct, I started with a Microsoft Ultimate DVR, then Direct provided a Tivo HR10-250 (?). When the business relationship between Direct and Tivo took a dive, Direct provided me with their new Fox based DVR. Rating all prior units on interface alone... the Microsoft Ultimate was my favorite with the Tivo running a close second. Of course the Ultimate was not HD capable.... Now fast forwarding to Bresnan's DVR... it is the single worst unit I have ever had. It runs reliably, but the interface is really awful. They use the TV Guide for the guide interface (yuk), and searches do not allow keywords, so you are strictly limited to alphabetical or category guides.

So here is the question... it seems a no brainer to switch to a Tivo, but is the Premiere the one I should be looking at? I really could care less about internet, netflix, or any other VOD. I just want a solid interface, HD capable, and a fancy pull out keypad remote for searching. I do want it to be somewhat future proof. Cost is not an issue. Premiere or something different?

Second, and maybe this is a topic for somewhere else -- but I do not plan on staying with Bresnan cable forever.... if I went back to Direct TV would I still be able to use my Tivo??

Thanks for any feedback....


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

dleithaus said:


> So here is the question... it seems a no brainer to switch to a Tivo, but is the Premiere the one I should be looking at? I really could care less about internet, netflix, or any other VOD. I just want a solid interface, HD capable, and a fancy pull out keypad remote for searching. I do want it to be somewhat future proof. Cost is not an issue. Premiere or something different?


The Premiere is the way to go. It has both the older SDUI and the newer HDUI. A potential issue for new customers is the current pricing options which are limited and do not appear to include a lifetime service option.

If you know anyone with an older TiVo I would see if they would purchase a Premiere with lifetime service for you through their upgrade offers - it would cost $500 with the lifetime service. Transferring it to you from their account is easy and acceptable to TiVo.



dleithaus said:


> Second, and maybe this is a topic for somewhere else -- but I do not plan on staying with Bresnan cable forever.... if I went back to Direct TV would I still be able to use my Tivo??
> 
> Thanks for any feedback....


All HD TiVos (Series 3, TiVo HD, & Premiere) only work with cable or OTA not satellite.

Good Luck,


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## Oracle (May 30, 2010)

IMHO the Premiere has come a long way since launch.
It's at least equally as good as a TivoHD now.
It was nothing less than an Epic fail when it first released.

I've got a Premiere and an HD unit.
They both work well. 

Although, to me, the Premiere is a disappointment.

Once the HDUI is worked out, it'll be considered an upgrade.
For now it is nothing more than a TivoHD rev. 2.0


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

Just completed the $299 XL and $19/month deal. Just so tired of the Bresnan DVR. Did not forget upgrading my wireless network to "N", along with a portable wireless N router to plug into the LAN port, and a "slide remote". All told, about $500. Again, anything is better than that damn Bresnan DVR!....... Wish me luck with my new toy?!

All that remains is configuring the new network (plug and play hopefully not plug and pray), programming the wireless router bridge, scheduling the Bresnan cable card visit, and then playing with the wonderous Tivo GUI.


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## jsjames (Sep 25, 2007)

jsjames said:


> I have the same problem. I'm on my second Premiere after an exchange because of the rebooting during playback of shows and unresponsive remote commands. Now my replacement does it too. The way to stop it (so far anyway) is to unplug the network cable and not use HD menus. I'm really bummed I wish it would work as expected. I also have a Tivo HD that runs fine on the same network.


Well, I am on my third Tivo Premier box (this last one was a new one, not a refurbished one) and this one rebooted while I was watching a show tonight after being plugged in for 2 days. Tivo said they think it's my cable lines that have a lot of errors that the Tivo has to correct, but my other TivoHD runs fine with the same cable lines. So these premiere boxes are way too sensitive. I am now stuck and will call Tivo about seeing if they will do a refund (doubtful since I bought it in October). I would not recommend this box. Just not ready.


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## jmatero (Apr 9, 2003)

So, I ditched the HD menu system after a week and now I'm happy. It operates just like my S3. Of course, the only reason I "upgraded" was to get the iPad app... which is still MIA.


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## mishafp (Nov 8, 2006)

jmatero said:


> So, I ditched the HD menu system after a week and now I'm happy. It operates just like my S3. Of course, the only reason I "upgraded" was to get the iPad app... which is still MIA.


I assume once this app comes (they tweeted yesterday that it will be this month, but we'll see), the HDUI thing won't really matter much, because no matter how fast the SD one is, the Ipad will be a much quicker way to navigate and we'll end up doing most everything on that.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

At exactly 9am today Time Warner went out again while streaming a Netflix movie. The Premiere rebooted which of course broke up an HBO movie we were recording as well.

The outage lasted only a matter of seconds (not sure about the length of so many others from TW) but it was long enough to knock the Premiere out. My question is for other Time Warner internet users: is this a common occurrence for you as well? I ask this as a neighbor recently claimed that they do this deliberately on a routine basis to everyone to break up torrent downloads. If they are doing this, at least in the DFW area anyway, is this legal?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

mec1991 said:


> At exactly 9am today Time Warner went out again while streaming a Netflix movie. The Premiere rebooted which of course broke up an HBO movie we were recording as well.
> 
> The outage lasted only a matter of seconds (not sure about the length of so many others from TW) but it was long enough to knock the Premiere out. My question is for other Time Warner internet users: is this a common occurrence for you as well? I ask this as a neighbor recently claimed that they do this deliberately on a routine basis to everyone to break up torrent downloads. If they are doing this, at least in the DFW area anyway, is this legal?


I imagine this gets TWC off the hook:



> Our Services are Not Guaranteed and Our Liability is Limited


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> I imagine this gets TWC off the hook:


Damn... 

Never thought we would go back to a land line but DSL may be our only option.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

mec1991 said:


> a neighbor recently claimed that they do this deliberately on a routine basis to everyone to break up torrent downloads. If they are doing this, at least in the DFW area anyway, is this legal?


I doubt they are dumb enough to think that will stop torrents. It will disrupt almost everything except torrents. The torrents will just pick right up where they left off after the network comes back up.


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

Nice to be back to Tivo after that awful Bresnan (now owned by Cablevision) DVR. Set-up went smooth with some time for updating the OS. 

Not sure I like the HD menu screens. They are slow with my broadband connection functioning correctly (5+ MPS), and problematic when revealing network interruptions occur that require a back - up to the top menu. I seem relegated to resetting my wireless bridge on a regular basis -- might hard wire or just add a remote switch to reset. 

SD menu is familiar and showing only what I want filtered from the channel guide on cable... another reason I wanted to come back to Tivo.

All in all, so far exactly what I expected.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

jmatero said:


> So, I ditched the HD menu system after a week and now I'm happy. It operates just like my S3. ....


:up::up::up:
I lasted 2 days in HD.


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## Sandman69 (Jan 14, 2011)

jmatero said:


> 1: It is a DVR first and cable companies provide DVRs to the masses. The interfaces are not as good as tivo for sure, but they aren't dreadful for the most part... And have gotten to the point now where many are quite good. And to most, why spend $300+ on a box and pay a monthly subscription when they can get one from the cable co. for $5 a month... And not have to worry about replacing it if it breaks... And get free lifetime SW and HW upgrades.
> 
> I have 2 boxes connected to my HDTV right now:
> 
> ...


As a current Cable (Comcast) customer that is getting ready to pull the trigger on a Premiere this is a very interesting thread.

One thing, what cable company only charges $5 for a HD DVR? I am currently charged 15.95 a month to use an Old Model HD-DVR (Scientific Atlanta 8300HD) and I am also charged a HD technology fee. My current DVR does not allow any sort of remote programming. Some Comcast locations do, but mine does not.

I also, have an Apple TV and I really like the interface.

I have coworkers that also have Comcast and the new Premiere and absolutely love it and haven't complained and have done nothing but praise it. Which is why I am getting ready to order one.

The DVR interface on the 8300 isn't too bad but it is nowhere close to TiVo.

Tivo also have a special for $0 and 2 year commitment, so it seems to be a no brainer to me.

I am just tired of giving Comcast all my money. I would rather pay a tad more for a better DVR.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Sandman69 said:


> One thing, what cable company only charges $5 for a HD DVR? I am currently charged 15.95 a month to use an Old Model HD-DVR (Scientific Atlanta 8300HD) and I am also charged a HD technology fee. My current DVR does not allow any sort of remote programming. Some Comcast locations do, but mine does not.


Cox doesn't charge for HD. I think Cox charges $10 rental and $5 service for their HD DVR = $15. TiVo is $3 for cable card. So using a TiVo is $3/mo + whatever you have to pay TiVo.


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## patnmike427 (Sep 9, 2002)

mec1991 said:


> My question is for other Time Warner internet users: is this a common occurrence for you as well? I ask this as a neighbor recently claimed that they do this deliberately on a routine basis to everyone to break up torrent downloads.





tomhorsley said:


> I doubt they are dumb enough to think that will stop torrents. It will disrupt almost everything except torrents. The torrents will just pick right up where they left off after the network comes back up.


Well, I would NEVER doubt the stupidity of any internet provider, whether Comcast, Cox, TWC, Verizon, etc...when the dopes in legal and marketing have more "power" than the legit technicians responsible for their network, wacky things happen. As a developer and MSDN subscriber for years, I would often get emails and letters from Comcast and Verizon warning about "excessive" bandwidth usage...I guess that, despite my repeated explanations, they weren't fond of the bi-monthly 3gig+ downloads of Windows7 beta builds...once I got FiOS, though, that stopped.

And yep, Tom, you're right: IF the provider is pulling that stunt, everything else gets AFU'ed, but the real bandwidth pigs will wait patiently for the connection...


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

vurbano said:


> Mine only reboots occasionally


defective cable card?


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## TwiceOver (Jan 4, 2005)

Ouch. I hope the two I just bought are good units. My pair of Series2 have been running non-stop for years.

Maybe I should have done more research first.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

mec1991 said:


> The outage lasted only a matter of seconds (not sure about the length of so many others from TW) but it was long enough to knock the Premiere out. My question is for other Time Warner internet users: is this a common occurrence for you as well?


Slipping slightly off-topic here and speaking as a Comcast user, I was once plagued with intermittent service dropouts like you describe, maybe a half-dozen to a dozen per day, lasting a few seconds to a maybe half a minute each. The modem would not indicate any problem whatsoever and continued to think it was connected. It took two years to get this straightened out and numerous tech visits before I finally got "the fixer", that one tech who knows how to diagnose issues. He found an underground splice that was corroded and partially attenuating the signal at higher frequencies. He also replaced the modem with one of the new ones that used multiple simultaneous frequencies. Problem solved.

Anyhow, I doubt what you're experiencing is a torrent-breaking attempt as it's not going to have much of an effect. Torrents are not large transfers that can be easily disrupted; they're a collection of small transfers that if broken are easily resumed. Breaking connection for a few seconds would have a major effect on "legitimate" traffic like telephony/internet radio/streaming media, but little or no overall effect on torrent traffic. I doubt any cable exec would do this to try to curb torrents this way because they're all pushing reliability and trying to peddle "reliable" phone service.

Other factors could be upstream routers with filled queues that have to drop packets or otherwise resetting/rebooting and losing a few seconds traffic.

Anyhow, to slip this back on topic -- the Internet is inherently unreliable. It's part of the design of the Internet. Packets are going to get dropped, connections are going to fail, through no fault of the consumer. For a Tivo to be intolerant of network failures is a design error with the Tivo.


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

Everything up and running pretty much perfectly now. Hardwired my network connection by drilling a hole in a wall and running cable directly from my router. Now, the HD menu is tolerable and not delay prone as before. Also downloaded an HD movie from Amazon... relatively speedy at about 2.5 hours... 

So far, I do love my new Tivo.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

I do too, once I switched it to the non-HD menus!


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Add me to those that didn't like the HD menu on their Premiere and switched to the SD menu. I like it so much better! It's just like my Tivo Series 3 now and easier to make a Season Pass.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Resist said:


> Add me to those that didn't like the HD menu on their Premiere and switched to the SD menu. I like it so much better! It's just like my Tivo Series 3 now and easier to make a Season Pass.


How is it easier? I create season passes the same way with my Premiere running the the so called HDUI as I did with my Series 3. Through the guide. Once I select the program, a few button presses and it's done.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> How is it easier? I create season passes the same way with my Premiere running the the so called HDUI as I did with my Series 3. Through the guide. Once I select the program, a few button presses and it's done.


Then maybe I'm just not used to using the HD menu for searching. That search method was in beta on my Series 3 and I never liked it then and don't now, plus it lagged my remote inputs. I prefer the regular search method.

The only downside to using the SD menu, is that it doesn't have the disk space meter.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Resist said:


> Then maybe I'm just not used to using the HD menu for searching. That search method was in beta on my Series 3 and I never liked it then and don't now, plus it lagged my remote inputs. I prefer the regular search method.


Search is actually much more powerful using the HDUI. You don't have to type very much for it to guess what you are searching for. Since it uses a popularity based list of results, you rarely have to type out much of the search.

And, when you go to record or set a season pass, you can see all the channels it comes on in the record screen. That makes it easier to set a season pass since you don't have to scroll through each upcoming episode to find the channel you want to record from.


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Noticed a lot of the complaints of the HDUI being Slow seemed to be from when the Premiere was first released. There's been patches out since. Anyone still not happy with the HDUI? Still Slow? Also, I have a Tivo HD with a Lifetime Subscription. Will the Lifetime transfer to the $99 Premiere? Anyone got a good reason NOT to upgrade from the HD to the $99 Premiere?


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

zenshadow said:


> Noticed a lot of the complaints of the HDUI being Slow seemed to be from when the Premiere was first released. There's been patches out since. Anyone still not happy with the HDUI? Still Slow? Also, I have a Tivo HD with a Lifetime Subscription. Will the Lifetime transfer to the $99 Premiere? Anyone got a good reason NOT to upgrade from the HD to the $99 Premiere?


I am still have the slow HDUI but I fixed that I am changing over to a Centon Infinity card. No slownest with it.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

zenshadow said:


> Noticed a lot of the complaints of the HDUI being Slow seemed to be from when the Premiere was first released. There's been patches out since. Anyone still not happy with the HDUI? Still Slow?


Are you kidding? There are TONS of people not happy with the HDUI performance. The HDUI is still dreadfully slow. I can sit there and count the SECONDS when I just want to page up through a listing of programs I have recorded. After every update (not like there are that many), I try it out again for a day or so before giving up in disgust and going back to the SDUI.

Yes, it did improve SOME with the first round of updates about a year ago and hasn't improved a bit since. There are plenty of people who I guess are patient enough and happy with it... perhaps they never used the SDUI or a series 3, or they had come off an even slower cable company DVR. I don't know. But my hat is off to them, for they are far more tolerant than I!


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

zenshadow said:


> Noticed a lot of the complaints of the HDUI being Slow seemed to be from when the Premiere was first released. There's been patches out since. Anyone still not happy with the HDUI? Still Slow? Also, I have a Tivo HD with a Lifetime Subscription. Will the Lifetime transfer to the $99 Premiere? Anyone got a good reason NOT to upgrade from the HD to the $99 Premiere?


My question is what is your good reason for upgrading?

First let me state that I like my Premiere and I think it works just fine. I also think my Premiere is superior to my Series 3 HD and TiVo HD.

However I would not pay $500 to upgrade either my Series 3 HD or my TiVo HD to a Premiere ($500 is the cost of Premiere with lifetime if you qualify for MSD). You just don't get much.

If you are a cable user and have a Series 3 HD which needs 2 cable cards maybe you can save a few $$/mo by going to a Premiere which only needs 1 cable card but that is about it.

As far as the HDUI - I guess some people think that is better than a faster easier to use text based one but I do not. The streaming features (think Netflix) on any of HD TiVos do not work that well and the only additional feature the Premiere has is Hulu+ (which I think very little of). If streaming is what you want you are better off just buying a Roku or Boxee box.

Good Luck,


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Streaming works extremely well with Premiere. Or even the S3. I've not had any problems streaming Netflix. If anything other devices have had more issues with Netflix. When Netflix has been down on the PS3, Roku or Boxee Box, I have still been able to stream reliably from the Premiere. Of course the UI is outdated and it only does 720P stereo HD. But most of the HD titles are in 720P stereo any way. So for those titles I like to use my TiVos since they have Native Resolution output. For the 1080P/5.1DD+ titles I will use my Roku2. The PS3 is not an option right hnow since the Netflix application is borked. Always sending out a 7.1 PCM signal(whether it shoudl be 2.0 or 5.1) which prevents post processing from being applied. So the sound takes a major hit.


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## zenshadow (Jun 27, 2008)

Hmmm... that $500 for a Premiere with Lifetime? Is that the $99 Premiere + Lifetime? (And I figured the Lifetime I bought - had since the Original TiVo!) would transfer (as it promises to do so, right?) If they are 'recharging' for a Lifetime ... then that would DEFINITELY make my decision simple. NO. Not worth it. So, I can't get the $99 Premiere and transfer my Lifetime for free??


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

zenshadow said:


> Hmmm... that $500 for a Premiere with Lifetime? Is that the $99 Premiere + Lifetime? (And I figured the Lifetime I bought - had since the Original TiVo!) would transfer (as it promises to do so, right?) If they are 'recharging' for a Lifetime ... then that would DEFINITELY make my decision simple. NO. Not worth it. So, I can't get the $99 Premiere and transfer my Lifetime for free??


Correct you can not transfer lifetime from a TiVo HD to a Premiere. So yes you would have to pay for new lifetime service if you purchase a Premiere.

Lifetime service is for the lifetime of the unit it was purchased for. It has been that way since the beginning and is now clearly spelled out in the service terms and by the service reps if you buy it over the phone.

There was some confusing language in the early lifetime service contracts and TiVo did allow a one time free transfer for lifetime service purchased before some date in 2000 to compensate for the confusing language. They have also ran some promotion specials in the past.

Good Luck,


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

zenshadow said:


> If they are 'recharging' for a Lifetime ... then that would DEFINITELY make my decision simple. NO. Not worth it.


As others have told me time and time again, buy the new box and get a lifetime for it. Then sell your old box with it's lifetime on ebay to recoup some of the cost.

However, I don't feel the Premiere is a worth while upgrade from the Tivo HD as a replacement.


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

zenshadow said:


> Noticed a lot of the complaints of the HDUI being Slow seemed to be from when the Premiere was first released. There's been patches out since. Anyone still not happy with the HDUI? Still Slow? Also, I have a Tivo HD with a Lifetime Subscription. Will the Lifetime transfer to the $99 Premiere? Anyone got a good reason NOT to upgrade from the HD to the $99 Premiere?


HDUI is much slower than SDUI for me. The only reason I stick with it is that the "stops responding to remote" bug is restricted to SDUI (at least in my case).


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

DaveWhittle said:


> The Premiere functions as a basic DVR during Internet outage. It can't add/find new shows to record, but it will record already scheduled shows, select a show for playback, pause, rewind, etc.


where does the guide data for tivo come from..there are times overnight or while i'm at work my router goes bonkers and now i worry if the web is out for a while that things wont record right.


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## DoctorNorm (Jun 9, 2010)

I join the I hate Tivo Premiere crowd. What an incompetently designed piece of crap.
I love the picture. I love the dual tuner. Beyond that, simply awful.

Someone explain to me why if I want to watch a program stored on my Tivo, it won't let me play it because the internet connection has supposedly been lost? Someone explain to me why an ethernet wired connection should fail when every other device on my network works perfectly? Anyone care to explain why, unlike any other piece of technology, it takes over 10 minutes to reboot?

This is one purchase I truly regret. I should have built a DVR from scratch.


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## PatMcNJ (May 22, 2006)

I am signing up for the I hate the Premier club, too. 

I am returning it after a week.... Luckily I was able to repair my Series 3 today, with a new hard drive. 

My main issue was the freezing up, or more accurately, when the Premier stopped responding to the remote. Until it was rebooted. I just could not take doing that a few times every day. I lost recordings, or at least parts of recordings. 

I surrender! At least I can get a full refund.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

DoctorNorm said:


> This is one purchase I truly regret. I should have built a DVR from scratch.


If you purchased the box within the last 30 days, return it. If you are going to "build" a DVR, consider using a Silicon Dust CableCARD network tuner.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

newsposter said:


> where does the guide data for tivo come from..there are times overnight or while i'm at work my router goes bonkers and now i worry if the web is out for a while that things wont record right.


The guide data for the next 10 to 14 days is stored on the hard drive. If your internet is temporarily down, it will still record your shows.



DoctorNorm said:


> Someone explain to me why if I want to watch a program stored on my Tivo, it won't let me play it because the internet connection has supposedly been lost?


It will let you play the stored program, but you can't use the "select" button to play it. However, if you highlight the recording and hit the "play" button, it will play fine.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

newsposter said:


> where does the guide data for tivo come from..there are times overnight or while i'm at work my router goes bonkers and now i worry if the web is out for a while that things wont record right.


Guide data comes at random times when the TiVo "phones home" through the Internet. It usually seems to connect daily and keeps 14 days or so of guide data. You would have to have a VERY long outage for it to not record something you planned.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

DaveWhittle said:


> It will let you play the stored program, but you can't use the "select" button to play it. However, if you highlight the recording and hit the "play" button, it will play fine.


Depends on the mode. In SDUI, I can play it with either, always...


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## vikingsquid (Jul 10, 2011)

My biggest problem has been the cable card interface. Several times I have been required to have a cable TV tech visit to restore the cable card because for no apparent reason, the card loses all the HD and premium channels (digital cable) and only shows the analog channels. This is very frustrating. Also, I want to be able to make DVD copies from Tivo recordings, but after buying ROXIO Creator 2012 as the web site suggests, I have been unsuccessful in even getting ROXIO to convert a Tivo recording. I think Tivo has really screwed the consumer by rushing the Premier to market with such crappy interface that does not allow seamless DVD burns as ALL of my earlier TIVO units have done.


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## DoctorNorm (Jun 9, 2010)

jfh3 said:


> If you purchased the box within the last 30 days, return it. If you are going to "build" a DVR, consider using a Silicon Dust CableCARD network tuner.


Actually I've had it for over a year. At first, I thought the dual tuner and the modern HD recording made some of the "quirks" acceptable; I was replacing my old ReplayTV units which had become technologically out-of-date.

Slowly over time I discovered that the Premiere, for which I have a lifetime contract, is so poorly designed that I find myself cursing the machine at least 15 to 20 times a year.

It's only after using the machine over a period of time that you begin to see the incompetence of their "software team." On a different matter, how long has the Premiere been on the market and they still haven't completed the HD interface? What do these people do for a living other than sitting around drinking coffee and doing, very slowly and incompletely, their crossword puzzles.

The problem is exacerbated by the shoddily designed user interface with a file system out of the 1970's and such a desperation to avoid lawsuits that virtually all programs can not be transferred to my PC.

I could never recommend a TiVo to anyone.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

DaveWhittle said:


> The guide data for the next 10 to 14 days is stored on the hard drive. If your internet is temporarily down, it will still record your shows.
> 
> It will let you play the stored program, but you can't use the "select" button to play it. However, if you highlight the recording and hit the "play" button, it will play fine.


In adddition there will be a nag screen once the program info gets low an will ask to connect to the net to update


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Resist said:


> The only downside to using the SD menu, is that it doesn't have the disk space meter.


It is there in the SDUI too now, it's just hidden the System Information screen.

I have many things I wish were better on the Premiere. The iPad app though is pretty great, I have to say, and was the primary enticement for me to upgrade.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Fofer said:


> It is there in the SDUI too now, it's just hidden the System Information screen.


But it's not the same.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

crxssi said:


> Guide data comes at random times when the TiVo "phones home" through the Internet. It usually seems to connect daily and keeps 14 days or so of guide data. You would have to have a VERY long outage for it to not record something you planned.


ok thanks..good info...didnt know if it was like my HR20 which wont even let me watch a program without a signal

to all those in the hate premier club..do any of you have experience with hr10 250? as long as i have the same or better than that with premier, i'm happy. i'm used to the long lag for SP reordering but other than that, i'm quite ok with the operation of my old HDtivo. i'm ez to please.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

vikingsquid said:


> My biggest problem has been the cable card interface. Several times I have been required to have a cable TV tech visit to restore the cable card because for no apparent reason, the card loses all the HD and premium channels (digital cable) and only shows the analog channels.


That is one thing you probably can't blame on the TiVo Premiere.


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## DoctorNorm (Jun 9, 2010)

DaveWhittle said:


> ....It will let you play the stored program, but you can't use the "select" button to play it. However, if you highlight the recording and hit the "play" button, it will play fine.


Once again, "top-notch" design. And so well documented too.

Does nothing embarrass these folks?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

decided to try the HD menus today and noticed that when I pause a program and then go into the menu and back to live TV, the pause location is at the end instead of where I paused it. This doesn't happen with the SD. Has it always been like this?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> decided to try the HD menus today and noticed that when I pause a program and then go into the menu and back to live TV, the pause location is at the end instead of where I paused it. This doesn't happen with the SD. Has it always been like this?


It should stay paused. When I pause it and go into the menus. Say my shows, sys info, etc., when I come back to live TV it is still paused.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> It should stay paused. When I pause it and go into the menus. Say my shows, sys info, etc., when I come back to live TV it is still paused.


It stays paused, but not in the same location I paused it. It jumps ahead to current time. Does it on both my Premieres.


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## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> It should stay paused. When I pause it and go into the menus. Say my shows, sys info, etc., when I come back to live TV it is still paused.


It depends on how you get there. If you're watching a program while it records and go back via myshows, it goes to the last viewed spot which is normally the starting point. The only time it goes to the end is if I think I paused or if I swap tuners without pausing. Then programs jump to live.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I just tested this and it happens to me BOTH on the HD menus and also the SD menus. WTF? Seems like a bug, one I have never noticed before (then again, I do so rarely watch live TV, and when I do, it's a show I am also recording at the time.)

cherry ghost, when you say "it doesn't happen with the SD," what are you doing to test that? I just toggled back and forth between SD and HD menus. Do I also need to reboot?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

RandomTask said:


> IThe only time it goes to the end is if I think I paused or if I swap tuners without pausing. Then programs jump to live.


This is not my experience, having tested it just now. Let's leave "recording" out of the equation for a moment.

Simply watch Live TV on one tuner. Pause the playback. Look at the screen to see what it is paused at. Hit the TiVo button to go to TiVo Central. Wait a few seconds. Then hit the Live TV button to go back to watching&#8230; and see that the paused screen is now different.

I understand that it's only set to maintain a 30 minute buffer, so eventually the TiVo would have to unpause, or jump to the current time. But I'm surprised it's jumping like this after only a few seconds.

Again, this is happening on both HD and SD menus for me.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fofer said:


> I just tested this and it happens to me BOTH on the HD menus and also the SD menus. WTF? Seems like a bug, one I have never noticed before (then again, I do so rarely watch live TV, and when I do, it's a show I am also recording at the time.)
> 
> cherry ghost, when you say "it doesn't happen with the SD," what are you doing to test that? I just toggled back and forth between SD and HD menus. Do I also need to reboot?


I checked it out this morning and mine was in the same spot I left it on. This was live TV not being recorded on my XL. And I only run the HDUI. I went to several menu screens and also ones that are in SD. Everytime I came back it was still in the same spot.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Fofer said:


> I just tested this and it happens to me BOTH on the HD menus and also the SD menus. WTF? Seems like a bug, one I have never noticed before (then again, I do so rarely watch live TV, and when I do, it's a show I am also recording at the time.)
> 
> cherry ghost, when you say "it doesn't happen with the SD," what are you doing to test that? I just toggled back and forth between SD and HD menus. Do I also need to reboot?


No reboot.

Yesterday morning I switched to HD. While watching football live, I paused and went to MY Shows and watched a bit of Saturday Night Live. When I went back to live TV, it was paused but at current time, which showed me the current score of the game. Switched back to SD and tested. In SD, it returns me to where I had actually paused.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Since I have 30 second skip enabled, I thought that might for some reason be causing a problem. Just tested all ADVANCE and REPLAY options in HD and SD and I get the same results as before, HD returns me to current time(still paused) and SD returns me to actual paused spot.

I wonder if it could be because I'm using a Harmony remote? Doubtful, but I'll find my Premiere remote and test again.


ETA - same results with the Premiere remote


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Fofer said:


> This is not my experience, having tested it just now. Let's leave "recording" out of the equation for a moment.
> 
> Simply watch Live TV on one tuner. Pause the playback. Look at the screen to see what it is paused at. Hit the TiVo button to go to TiVo Central. Wait a few seconds. Then hit the Live TV button to go back to watching and see that the paused screen is now different.
> 
> ...


Are you pausing before you swap from HD to SD? First do the swap and then go live-->pause-->menu-->live.


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## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

Don't use "LiveTV" to go back to what your viewing, Use "Zoom". LiveTV takes you back to the here and now (current live tv, though still paused), either intentionally or bug. Zoom will just take you back to what's in the video window while in Tivo Central (namely where you paused playback).

It may be a hokey work-around, or intentional, but it solves your issue with no added button presses .

-DPF


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Gotcha. Thanks!


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

DPF said:


> Don't use "LiveTV" to go back to what your viewing, Use "Zoom". LiveTV takes you back to the here and now (current live tv, though still paused), either intentionally or bug. Zoom will just take you back to what's in the video window while in Tivo Central (namely where you paused playback).
> 
> It may be a hokey work-around, or intentional, but it solves your issue with no added button presses .
> 
> -DPF


That only works if the window is "on". When set to "off", zoom takes you the same place as livetv, the end of the buffer

This isn't a huge deal, but there are times when I'll pause sporting events to go into the menus to watch something that's been recorded or to check the To Do List and coming back to the end of the buffer is not ideal. One more reason to keep using the SDUI.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

This may not match your habits, but why not hit record if doing this?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DPF said:


> Don't use "LiveTV" to go back to what your viewing, Use "Zoom". LiveTV takes you back to the here and now (current live tv, though still paused), either intentionally or bug. Zoom will just take you back to what's in the video window while in Tivo Central (namely where you paused playback).
> 
> It may be a hokey work-around, or intentional, but it solves your issue with no added button presses .
> 
> -DPF


When I press live or zoom it takes me back to the same place. If the tuner is paused either button will take me back to the paused point.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> That only works if the window is "on". When set to "off", zoom takes you the same place as livetv, the end of the buffer
> 
> This isn't a huge deal, but there are times when I'll pause sporting events to go into the menus to watch something that's been recorded or to check the To Do List and coming back to the end of the buffer is not ideal. One more reason to keep using the SDUI.


Anything I am watching I always hit the record button. You never know if you will get distracted by something or even do a wrong button press. Either way by hitting record you know your program will be there.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> When I press live or zoom it takes me back to the same place. If the tuner is paused either button will take me back to the paused point.


well, not how it's working for me


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Fofer said:


> It is there in the SDUI too now, it's just hidden the System Information screen.


What's funny is that the Tivo iPhone App has the correct disk space meter, so you'd think the SDUI would as well.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The TiVo iPad and iPhone app were so totally NOT developed in-house&#8230; that's obvious, right?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Resist said:


> What's funny is that the Tivo iPhone App has the correct disk space meter, so you'd think the SDUI would as well.


i am not a programmer but i dont get why you need th HD interface to see the meter either

also i dont get why the search function cannot function without the internet working on the HD interface, you still have a ton of guide data there..must be because of the integration with the online services..wonder if you unchecked all the boxes if it would work? if not, i think thats a flaw


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

newsposter said:


> also i dont get why the search function cannot function without the internet working on the HD interface, you still have a ton of guide data there..must be because of the integration with the online services..wonder if you unchecked all the boxes if it would work? if not, i think thats a flaw


That is exactly why- because although guide data is downloaded, data about Amazon, Netflix, etc, is *not* and must be queried live. It is a bad design. There should be multiple search/display options that include those that do not require live Internet queries.

Even worse, those cutesy little photos that appear for programs are ALSO not downloaded as part of the guide data. Those are live Internet queries and transfers also. The Flash interface is already slow enough without having to add even more delays with live Internet queries. I am perfectly willing to wait for a query when I *WANT* it to include remote data sources. But why should I have to put up with it when just trying to quickly SCROLL THROUGH THINGS I HAVE ALREADY RECORDED???


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Worst. Design decision. Ever.

Whatever engineers and execs thought otherwise... shouldn't be working in consumer tech.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

crxssi said:


> That is exactly why- because although guide data is downloaded, data about Amazon, Netflix, etc, is *not* and must be queried live. It is a bad design. There should be multiple search/display options that include those that do not require live Internet queries.
> 
> 
> 
> > if i uncheck all those other video providers will i still be able to search the guide?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

> if i uncheck all those other video providers will i still be able to search the guide?


I believe the answer is "yes". And it WILL increase the speed of the search. It will also increase the speed of the HDUI, since it doesn't have to figure out where it is and place a "netflix" or whatever icon on the screen. Of course you will lose the ability to search those other sources in any way/shape/or form, which might not be what you want.

It will NOT, however, remove all the dependencies in the HDUI from the live queries made when just trying to look at an entry for something already recorded.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

hulu and netflix wont work on my machine anyway...i can see the closed caption and the program is streaming but something about my hdmi wont let the pic or sound thru except for some random luck lol..so i'm gonna cancel the free hulu for 6 months and use WII for netflix..no one at tivo nor hulu ever heard of the problem


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