# Why is hr 21 so SLOW?!?



## adlerx (Feb 22, 2007)

OK, I can live with the outa sync audio, I can live with the out of sync guides, I can even get by without DLB (barely) but why in the world are these things so slow to go between channels or really any menu functions? It's terrible, up to 6 seconds to switch between shows, with tivo it was like a toggle switch. Without the DLB's, six seconds to swap channels is pretty brutal. Is there a way to speed this up?
I know you love to tell peeps to go to DBSTalk but you all are a lot smarter and always make more sense to me, plus you say that the hr 20-21 is fair game here, if they are then just embrace and support it. They're obviously not going away....
TIA to all!


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## Scooter (Mar 15, 2000)

If you have native resolution (on the HR21) set to on, that will slow it way down. 

I think another reason why some people think some menus run slower compared to a Tivo is because you don't hear the TiVo bonks and bings when you flip through them. It gives you the confidence that you know the TiVo heard your command and it's going to be working soon.

Scooter


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I find the HR21 significantly more responsive than the HR10. Indeed, if you have multiple resolutions set it can take quite a while for your TV to lock on to a resolution change. The HR10 always converts to the set resolution.


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## adlerx (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks guys! I do have native resolution set but NEVER had the sound effects on on any Tivo unit. Guess I'll have to live with the slow because it beats messing with the with the res's all the time to get best pic all the time. I'll try it w/out the native on but don't know if I can do that... Everything is a trade off....

Update, just tried it, doesn't speed it up enough to be worth it, went from 6 seconds to 4 seconds, still too long for toggling between channels


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

If it's taking that long to change channels, something is wrong. I have native on and it takes 3 seconds at most when a rez change is needed. I'm using component though, so that may mean less handshaking when the signal changes.

And what is this out of sync guide you speak of?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

3-4 seconds for channel change is pretty normal for a DVR...with HD...and MPEG4 encoding. SD DirecTivo's take 2 seconds or so as it is.

If you want to still watch live TV and "surf" then try doing it with the mini-guide. Push the blue button anytime to pop up this one line mini-guide and surf that way. Just an idea.

As for Native resolution, try turning it off and have the only resolution selected being a match to your TV. If you have a 720p TV, choose 720p. 1080i TV, choose 1080i. Unless your TV has a fantastic upscaler this may give you the best image and faster channel changes. You'll just have to keep trying various combinations that work for you and your TV as they are all different.


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

My HR21 does seem a little slow when compared to my HR21, but not not unbearably so. In comparison to my old HR10, it's almost zippy. I loved my Tivo, but my only real issue I had with it was the agonizing slowness of setting Season Passes. And reordering priorities.

Having said that, I will always look back on the HR10 with fondness, since it was my first real introduction to TV on my time. I know it's not going to happen, but I do wish that DirecTV would come out with another HD Tivo, just to give people a choice, maybe it would cool down some of the animosity from both sides I see on this forum.

By the way, if offered a choice, I would still choose the HR20/21, because it suits my personality and wants so well.

Your mileage will vary, and everybody has the right to choose for themselves what they need and want. Fortunately, most of us do have options. Choose the one that is best for you, and be Happy.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

I would agree with Shibby about setting on one resolution and let the TV do the work. I have accepted that the native is slower but I prefer to have it as broadcasted.


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## tivoTT (Apr 14, 2004)

May I interrupt this to ask the best way to set the resolution so that the TV makes the decision? Full disclosure -- I just got my HR21 yesterday so haven't read all documentation. I want full-screen HD when that's the feed, cropped non-HD if appropriate, etc.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

tivoTT said:


> May I interrupt this to ask the best way to set the resolution so that the TV makes the decision? Full disclosure -- I just got my HR21 yesterday so haven't read all documentation. I want full-screen HD when that's the feed, cropped non-HD if appropriate, etc.


If you want the TV to make the decision?

With the current national release of software: NATIVE-STRETCH

In the next National Release, there will be another option: Original Broadcast


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> ...In the next National Release, there will be another option: Original Broadcast


Probably yet another welcome tweak to the HR2X platform, but I question the name, which just plays into the incorrect theory that if you don't go native you are not getting the "original broadcast" as others here seem to think they prefer.

You are always getting the "original broadcast", you are just deciding which rescaler to use, the one in the display (by selecting "native") or the one in the DVR (by not selecting "native"), which probably have no perceptible difference in displays made since about 2002.

The "original broadcast" isn't sent in a resolution, its sent as a bit stream with a flag telling the display (or DVR) how to interpret the formatted resolution so that it can then rescale it for the native resolution of the display, which is usually different.

Rescalers are pretty transparent these days, and just like high-end CD players have the exact same quality as $40 CD players, the only folks who think they will see a difference are those who TELL themselves they see a difference because they would feel foolish for sinking 4 large into a outboard rescaler otherwise (which might have made a bit of sense back around 9/11).

Put another way, whether native or not, if you have a 1080p set you are then never getting the "original broadcast" from FOX or ABC or ESPN, because you can't display a 720 source on a 1080p set without rescaling it.

And in a non-native mode when the circuitry is always in effect, the rescaler in the DVR works in a 1:1 pixel-to-pixel mode (1080 rescaled to 1080 or 720 rescaled to 720), meaning there are no rounding errors in the rescale whatsoever, which means that it is absolutely transparent. No one can see the microscopic errors in a modern rescaler, and when operating in 1:1 math, there aren't even any in the first place.

So let's not overthink it. Native doesn't gain you anything if your set is relatively new anyway. I'd rather not go native just to get the speed increase.

And Shibby is right about MPEG-4, which can have a GOP structure of up to 200 frames, meaning it can take up to over 6 seconds to get through the buffer, time which is spent waiting for the decoder to initialize. Add another second and a half for your display to reshake hands when you change sources, and it starts to add up. Get out of native and you can gain back that last couple of seconds.


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## tivoTT (Apr 14, 2004)

Tyrone -- that was very helpful information. Thank you. So what are the settings you then suggest? I'd like to try them out as a comparison to make my decision. I assume I just change my settings within my DVR, yes? Need I make corresponding setting changes in the TV, as well?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

HDMI can also really slow things down, in particular if your TV manufacturer has played fast and loose with the specs. You could have 2-5 seconds just for HDMI handshaking let alone anything else going on. Try component and all that HDMI delay goes away.


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## Cruzan (Dec 21, 2001)

Scooter said:


> If you have native resolution (on the HR21) set to on, that will slow it way down.
> 
> I think another reason why some people think some menus run slower compared to a Tivo is because you don't hear the TiVo bonks and bings when you flip through them. It gives you the confidence that you know the TiVo heard your command and it's going to be working soon.
> 
> Scooter


It's also in the designs of the architecture. On the Tivo, if I select a menu, the screen immediately animates and starts an operation. Often it's a blank screen for a few seconds, but I'm confident that the Tivo accepted my keypress. For example, if I select a show from Now Playing, the Now Playing list slides off to the left of the screen while I wait for the information to come up. Microsoft uses these kinds of visual tricks to give the illusion of performance.

On the HR 21, when I press the menu button, sometimes nothing happens for a few seconds. It seems (and is!) unresponsive. The HR21 seems much slower than the HR-10 as a result.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

tivoTT said:


> Tyrone -- that was very helpful information. Thank you. So what are the settings you then suggest? I'd like to try them out as a comparison to make my decision. I assume I just change my settings within my DVR, yes? Need I make corresponding setting changes in the TV, as well?


The TV typically reacts to whatever rez is input, and automatically rescales that (if necessary) to the native rez of the set, so no, there is typically no need to make an adjustment at the set.

OK then, it's a little complicated, but here is what I recommend:

First, find the native rez of your display. If it is 1080, then simply set the rez of the DVR to 1080 and leave it. If it is 720, then set it to 720 and leave it. That will put the rescaler in the DVR in play, and assuming it performs as well as the one in your set, that is probably what you want, and would be speedier than native. You might try other settings just in case the rescaler in the DVR is not quite as good as that in the TV, but even if your TV is less than 5 years old, that's not likely. Some older CRT HD sets had issues, and those would very likely work better with rescaling done in the DVR.

Other than that, there is probably little difference in rescaling in one device or the other, but for instance if you were to set your DVR to 720 and then feed a 1080p display, rescaling happens all the time in the display and half the time in the DVR (a double rescale) and would also for 1080 into a 720 set. If you match the output rez to the native rez, it only happens half the time in the DVR and never in the display. That's theoretically better, but probably not visibly so.

If the native rez is 768, setting the output to 1080 will give a touch more resolution than setting it to 720, so that would be generally recommended. In this case (768 native rez), rescaling happens in both locations, always in the set, and again part time in the DVR depending on if the output rez matches the program rez.

Reinterlacing quality could also be a factor. If you set the DVR to 720, reinterlacing happens for 1080 in the DVR. If you set it to 1080 (or go native) reinterlacing for 1080i (to 1080p or 720p, for instance) happens in the display. Sets made before 2004 didn't always reinterlace well, so many folks set the DVR to 720 just to improve that aspect.

That is the recommendation, but it is a general one. It never hurts to experiment, as your idiosyncratic setup might actually work better with a non-standard setting.

If you DO go native, both reinterlacing and rescaling, when they DO happen, always happen in the display. Also, it can take longer when changing sources or channels, depending on your display and how you connect to it.

Also, as shibby points out, HDMI handshake takes a second or two. When I change channels on my HD DVR it appears on my analog set, and then a second or two later on my HD set. Component HD almost always has equal PQ to HDMI, so that can speed things up without any penalty (other than needing separate audio cables, that is).


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