# C133 error (Problem with service) BIG EXCLAMATION POINT !



## bdspilot

I have had this error many times since the last software update about 10 days ago. My internet is fine and I can connect to my other Tivo so my connections are good. Is this just a Tivo Server Prob? I am hard wired to a non green switch.

thanks


----------



## CoxInPHX

Mine were all out, between 5-5:30am PT this morning, I have not received the Premiere Fall Update, even though I signed up the first day, I usually get the updates the first day of roll-out, but not this time.


----------



## pgoelz

Mine went out this morning at about 0815 EDT. Still out as of 0840. Brought me face to face with how much of the Roamio is dependent on an internet connection AND reliable Tivo servers. And worse, the Tivo support numbers are not manned until 10AM EDT so there is no one to call. One hopes there is someone in the server room who is aware something is wrong. 

FWIW..... initially, forcing a connection to the Tivo servers failed at the "negotiating" step. Now, the forced connection actually succeeds including downloading new guide information. But the Roamio is still declaring an error and all the Tivo-dependent functions are still unavailable. 

Never saw this happen with my trusty TivoHD. 

Paul


----------



## jrtroo

pgoelz said:


> Never saw this happen with my trusty TivoHD.


The THDs did not provide instant feedback on the status of Tivo's servers as the function was not as active as on the Premiere and Roamio.

I look at it this way, though I'm sure to be corrected. If you are at work and have a short outage at home from your electric company, you'll know because clocks are flashing and UPSs may be beeping. If you POTS has a short outage, you would likely never know.


----------



## pgoelz

Point taken. But with the Roamio as connected and instant as it is, these "brief" outages are VERY noticeable and annoying. This one was about 30 minutes near as I can tell. 

Perhaps Tivo needs to ramp their server reliability / redundancy up a notch, given the fact that all the new DVRs are so dependent on always on connectivity?

Paul


----------



## jrtroo

Seems that they are working on their servers getting ready for holiday sales (or new features?!). But, in general, there are not normally any issues like we have seen this last week.


----------



## jwbelcher

Last Friday I experienced the C133 and my Tivo about flipped out. Any remote control inputs took forever and acted like it was hung waiting for the service. Once the service was restored, Roamio got happy again.

Anyone with similar experiences when the tivo service goes out?


----------



## Bierboy

I've had several issues with failing to connect to TiVo servers recently where I hadn't had any for years....


----------



## kbmb

Tivo really needs to beef up their servers.....this just shouldn't be happening as frequently as it does.

-Kevin


----------



## pgoelz

I had my second "C133" issue last night and called Tivo. This time, I got someone who acknowledged the issue but had what I consider to be an unacceptable solution. He was adamant that the issue was with my router and its "firewall". Near as I can tell, by "firewall" he was talking about either port blocking (which my router does not do) or the normal routing functions. I tried questioning him about what the heck he meant when he said I had to turn off the router's "firewall" and he told me that I had to open ports in the router and LEAVE THEM OPEN. When I objected to that approach as lowering my security, he got a bit huffy and Emailed me an article that he said would describe the issue and the solution. 

The article first instructed me to do a network diagnostic (which includes checking ports) from the Tivo menu, which passed. At this point (after the passed port test AND a forced successful connection to Tivo), the Tivo was STILL giving me a C133 error. 

The article went on to imply that Tivo needs a range of IPs and ports available but did not specifically say that they needed to be permanently held open. 

So I simply rebooted the router and everything came back up. Not sure what the problem was, but if I had to guess, I'm wondering if it isn't just a protocol or timing issue where Tivo opens a port and then assumes it is open longer than the router holds it open? 

Unless CONCRETELY shown otherwise, I refuse to hold ports open in my router. That seems to just be asking for it, and I am not convinced thatis the best solution anyway. 

Hopefully, Tivo will sort this out on their flagship DVR line. The solution can't be to modify router settings.... for starters, how many people are familiar enough with their router to do it.... correctly? My router works 100% with everything else I own including a Logitech Revue. 

Paul


----------



## socrplyr

I had it happen last evening/night as well. It didn't seem to last long this time. I didn't bother to call or anything, since I could still watch a recorded show (which is what I was trying to do).


----------



## pgoelz

Another C133 today and this time, rebooting the router did NOT resolve it. The Roamio (basic) could connect to the Tivo service and passed all network diagnostics, but the C133 remained. 

I called support and this time around, they insisted that the problem was due to the fact that I was hardwired and did not have a static IP address set. So I set a static IP and rebooted the router. This did NOT resolve it. The problem actually got worse.... it now could not connect tot he Tivo service at all, even though the router correctly showed the new static IP address and all other PCs in the house were communicating just fine. 

I rebooted the modem AND the router and when they came back up, the C133 was goone and all is fine again. 

Note that the last time I called on this, I was told that the problem was ABSOLUTELY because my router was not holding some ports open. I was told that I had to reconfigure the router to hold these ports open and I refused for security reasons. This time, I was told that the problem is supposedly because I didn't have a static IP address, and the open ports only applied to WiFi connections. Huh???? 

I can see how IP address issues AND closed ports can cause issues but c'mon..... everything else in the house has worked flawlessly for years. The problem is the Roamio or its communications protocol, not my network. 

I hope this gets resolved. I love the Roamio otherwise. Best DVR I have ever owned. 

Paul


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

It's not just the Roamio...I've been having the same problem with my Premiere.

I've been writing it off to TiVo server issues, but maybe the new software has a glitch in it?


----------



## TiVoMargret

If you see a C133 message, it is a temporary issue with the TiVo Service. There is no need to reboot or change anything about your setup. It will resolve on its own.


----------



## olaug002

TiVoMargret said:


> If you see a C133 message, it is a temporary issue with the TiVo Service. There is no need to reboot or change anything about your setup. It will resolve on its own.


This has been a frequent and more annoying issue with episodes occurring daily and lasting over an hour. Any idea how long I can expect this TiVo problem to continue?


----------



## bmgoodman

olaug002 said:


> This has been a frequent and more annoying issue with episodes occurring daily and lasting over an hour. Any idea how long I can expect this TiVo problem to continue?


Have you tried pinging the Tivo? Did you happen to set up wireless before or in addition to wired? When I first set my Roamio up, I used wi-fi just to get it going. I then switched to wired and had loads of connectivity issues.

Someone here suggested it's because the wi-fi doesn't turn off after you connect the wire. So I had to go back to wi-fi, enter a wrong password and then switch back to wired.

It sounds weird, but the pings to the Tivo showed it. I went from 10% packet loss to 0% and the problems went away.

I hope this is an issue Tivo is aware of by now!


----------



## pgoelz

TiVoMargret said:


> If you see a C133 message, it is a temporary issue with the TiVo Service. There is no need to reboot or change anything about your setup. It will resolve on its own.


I'm confused then. Yes, the C133 error message reads exactly that.... an issue with the "Tivo Service". But when I call Tivo, I am immediately and emphatically told that it is a communications issue and I have to change things on MY END to resolve it. I have called twice and each time I was told something COMPLETLY DIFFERENT. When I question whether or not it is a problem on Tivo's end, I am ALWAYS told that it DEFINITELY is on MY END.

I don't know what to believe. In the three years I have owned my current router, the Roamio is the only device that has ever had any issue communicating. That would tend to indict the Tivo servers and not my network?

For me, the bottom line is that for an always connected device like the Roamio, the C133 errors are HIGHLY annoying and disruptive. They seriously impact the user experience on an otherwise brilliantly designed DVR. I hope they get resolved SOON.

Paul


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

pgoelz said:


> I don't know what to believe. In the three years I have owned my current router, the Roamio is the only device that has ever had any issue communicating. That would tent to indict the Tivo servers and not my network?


It's not just the Roamio. My Premiere has the same issue.

If Margret says it's the servers, I believe her. That's a plausible explanation. I can understand that she would know better than some minimum wage phone guy in Bangalore.


----------



## pgoelz

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not just the Roamio. My Premiere has the same issue.
> 
> If Margret says it's the servers, I believe her. That's a plausible explanation. I can understand that she would know better than some minimum wage phone guy in Bangalore.


I tend to believe her as well. At least that is where the evidence available to me is pointing. The problem is that the official line I get from Tivo support is that it is NOT the servers, and that leads me to believe that Tivo is NOT looking into it.

A little transparency here would go a LONG way. I'll sit back and wait a while if I know Tivo is aware of the issue and is trying to correct it. But all evidence I have so far says they are NOT. They are blaming my network 100% and totally ignoring the possibility that it is on their end.

BTW, the support people I have talked to at Tivo are definitely not some "minimum wage phone guy in Bangalore". They have all been pretty knowledgeable and helpful. Just possibly misinformed?

Paul


----------



## jrtroo

Things like this can take a bit of time to message through an organization. Especially an organization that is not used to dealing with system "emergencies". Most of their calls are probably turn ons/offs of service and general networking or functionality questions.


----------



## chrispitude

Just got this for the first time tonight.


----------



## ajayabb

Me too. Must me on the tivo end


----------



## pgoelz

chrispitude said:


> Just got this for the first time tonight.


As did I. It started about 8:40PM EST, give or take.

1. Network diagnostics reports the Roamio can connect OK and that all is well.

2. I restarted the router. No resolution.

3. C133 persists as of this writing (8:50 PM EST).

Note that I did a PingPlot to "tivo.com" and it shows 100% packet loss at two hops between me and tivo.com. Perhaps this is a route issue? See attached screenshot. Is this the same domain that the Roamio goes to when it connects?

EDIT: Other than the packet loss between me and Tivo, ALL other routes I have tested are OK and I get my usual 29Mb/S speed test to all four corners of the US. Still C133 (and packet loss) as of 9:05PM.

Paul


----------



## Andrewp75

Same error here and two different iPads timeout when trying to connect to Roamio Pro .,,annoying, but I'm sure TiVo will get it together before I wake up in the morning


----------



## almighty

Got the error tonight also. Glad its not just me. I can still make a daily call into Tivo, but have the error and no access to anything other than live tv and recordings. (no Netflix, etc).


----------



## Smirks

Same here too. Roamio Plus has been C133ing for 20 minutes at least.

Rebooted the router and TiVo, no difference. I am able to force a connection and download guide data, but still get the C133 after.

Glad it's not just me.


----------



## Andrewp75

Everything is working now. TiVo user since 2000, I love the Roamio!! We'll worth the upgrade especially if you have iOS devices (iPhone/iPad)


----------



## jrboddie

Thank you for reporting this. I saw this tonight for the first time on my brand new Roamio just after a router reset. I was certain that it must be a problem with my new box or network but the failure occurred at the same time as your reports.

So it must be an issue with the server. That is a relief!


----------



## tomhorsley

pgoelz said:


> I rebooted the modem AND the router and when they came back up, the C133 was goone and all is fine again.


Routers that do NAT routing have to keep tables of active connections so they can figure out what goes where. It is quite common for router software to have bugs (Gasp!) that get it confused with lots of connections causing memory leaks and wot-not. That could easily explain rebooting the router fixing things. You could check and see if the router has newer firmware available (but sometimes trying to update firmware just makes things worse .


----------



## pgoelz

Sigh. I called Tivo after the problem escalated to C501 errors trying to access the NPL. While I was waiting, it resolved. I tried to describe the C133 and C501 errors to the CSR, who insisted that I perform various troubleshooting steps until I told him three or four times that it had resolved and I was at this point trying to get some more information. 

His normal troubleshooting steps were: 

1. Connect to Tivo.

2. Reboot the router.

3. Reboot the Tivo. 

4. Reboot the router and the modem. 

5. Permanently open a range of ports. 

I explained that steps 1-4 generally does not resolve it and that I continue to refuse to perform step 5, which would expose me to any passing port scanner. 

What was (again) disturbing was that at no time did he acknowledge the possibility that the problem was on Tivo's end. Even after I mentioned that several people in this thread had experienced C133s at the same time. He maintained that there was no problem on their end. 

I realize he is simply reading a troubleshooting flowchart, but enough is enough don'tcha think? How do we get this escalated to someone at Tivo that can actually do something other than repeat the same ineffective diagnostic steps. All indications I have indicate that there is NOT a problem with my local network. The packet loss I am (still) seeing might be part of the issue.... who knows. Tivo sure doesn't seem to want to look into it. 

BTW, during our phone conversation, the CSR said that Tivo knows about the C501 errors and "has fixed it". I pointed out that I was calling because I was getting C501 errors so they did NOT appear to be fixed. At that point, the conversation got a bit convoluted and I was not able to figure out if he was referring to C133 or C501 and I finally dropped it. 

Tivo Margaret, can you please weigh in here? If a C133 is indeed a TIVO server issue, can you at least get your CSRs to stop trying to get us to open ports and stop wasting time and corrupting recordings by rebooting the Roamio when it doesn't solve the issue? 

Getting frustrated. I absolutely LOVE the Roamio. But if this continues, I may have to go back to our TivoHD. 

Paul


----------



## pgoelz

tomhorsley said:


> Routers that do NAT routing have to keep tables of active connections so they can figure out what goes where. It is quite common for router software to have bugs (Gasp!) that get it confused with lots of connections causing memory leaks and wot-not. That could easily explain rebooting the router fixing things. You could check and see if the router has newer firmware available (but sometimes trying to update firmware just makes things worse .


Not directed directly at me, but..... I realize that is a possibility. But why is it ONLY the Roamio that has issues? Before, during and after a C133 episode, ALL other internet devices in the house can go ANYWHERE on the internet at full speed. If the problem is on our end, why can everything except the Roamio deal with it successfully? Our Roamio isn't streaming when it C133s, it is just trying to pull up previews and info. And rebooting the router does NOT always fix it.

Paul


----------



## tomhorsley

pgoelz said:


> But why is it ONLY the Roamio that has issues?


Maybe the Roamio is desperately trying to keep hundreds of connections to different pause ad servers open? .


----------



## pgoelz

UPDATE: The next morning, my Roamio is operating normally (no C133s, anyway) but I am still getting 100% packet loss at two hops between me and www.tivo.com. So maybe the packet loss is not related to the issue?

Paul


----------



## bradleys

I think everything was down for a few hours yesterday.

I noticed, but it really wasn't that big of a deal, just affected the suggestions and other minor functionality. 

I wouldn't have even noticed if the IOS app wasn't unable to connect.


----------



## tough joe

still getting the c133 error. It is intermittent. it goes away then comes back. like a bad girlfriend. still no TiVo solutions yet ?


----------



## pgoelz

tough joe said:


> still getting the c133 error. It is intermittent. it goes away then comes back. like a bad girlfriend. still no TiVo solutions yet ?


I'm not holding my breath. Except for one post from Tivo Margaret stating that C133 WAS a Tivo issue, in every other contact I have had with Tivo about C133s the CSRs act like they are 100% convinced it is a local networking issue. That or they don't have a clue and are just guessing.

Regardless of where the issue is, it needs to be addressed. If it is a LAN issue, then Tivo needs to be able to deal with it like all the other internet devices I have that are 100% while the Roamio displays C133.

In the mean time, we all need to call Tivo EVERY time we see a C133 so they have a better handle on how prevalent it is.

Paul


----------



## Smirks

It's not a big deal if you want to watch live or recorded TV. The problem is other services such as Netflix or YouTube also don't work when the Roamio is 133ing, even if the local network is working. 

Luckily I have a PS3 to use as a backup for those network services, but I still wasted 20 minutes trying to figure out if it was my problem or TiVos. That's also 20 mins where my wife is scowling at me because the kids are in bed and she wants to watch Breaking Bad.


----------



## kbmb

Smirks said:


> It's not a big deal if you want to watch live or recorded TV. The problem is other services such as Netflix or YouTube also don't work when the Roamio is 133ing, even if the local network is working.
> 
> Luckily I have a PS3 to use as a backup for those network services, but I still wasted 20 minutes trying to figure out if it was my problem or TiVos. That's also 20 mins where my wife is scowling at me because the kids are in bed and she wants to watch Breaking Bad.


Exactly....that's why I started this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=511834

I mean, you can't even delete a scheduled recording while there is a C133 error.

I sent a tweet to @tivodesign pointing Margaret to that thread because I'd like some kind of explanation from Tivo as to why these services aren't available when the Tivo can't phone home?!?! I mean, not being able to stop a recording is CRAZY!! And I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to load Netflix, Youtube or Comcast VOD during the error.

-Kevin


----------



## Andrewp75

As far as the CSRs are concerned while I am sure there are good ones... Jake is the only totally competent one I've seen recently


----------



## HarperVision

kbmb said:


> Exactly....that's why I started this thread:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=511834
> 
> I mean, you can't even delete a scheduled recording while there is a C133 error.
> 
> I sent a tweet to @tivodesign pointing Margaret to that thread because I'd like some kind of explanation from Tivo as to why these services aren't available when the Tivo can't phone home?!?! I mean, not being able to stop a recording is CRAZY!! And I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to load Netflix, Youtube or Comcast VOD during the error.
> 
> -Kevin


That's because TiVo is "Big Brother" in this scenario.


----------



## tough joe

HarperVision said:


> That's because TiVo is "Big Brother" in this scenario.


No - Tivo is Skynet


----------



## mattycb

First as has been stated before this is not just a Roamio problem. My Premier had no TV guide for four days because the box could not connect to the server for two weeks AND had the C133.

The only thing that has resolved it for me is replacing the N wireless network adapter with the G. Now my program guide is downloading again and my C133 is gone.

I truly believe the latest code drop from TiVo has changed the way it interacts with N adapters.

Matt B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

My Premiere has had the C133 from time to time, and it has an ethernet connection.


----------



## mattycb

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My Premiere has had the C133 from time to time, and it has an ethernet connection.


Rob is your C133 also accompanied by a failure to download the program guide? (Connection interrupted.)

Matt B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

mattycb said:


> Rob is your C133 also accompanied by a failure to download the program guide? (Connection interrupted.)


Well, it fails to download, but that's not the error message...IIRC, it makes the initial connection, but it never starts downloading (it says something about "check your internet connection," which I find ironic since it goes through the initial connection handshake successfully, and if I do the "test internet connection" thingie it passes).

I'll pay more attention next time to the details.


----------



## pgoelz

FWIW, whenever I have had a C133 error, it ALWAYS passes the network check and will also successfully go through all steps of a forced connection. But the C133 persists. 

All this points to an issue on the Tivo server side, so it is very frustrating when you call Tivo and all they do is ask you to reboot everything.... which does not resolve it. 

We all need to call Tivo EVERY time it happens so they get a better read on how widespread it is and start looking for the real culprit. 

Has anyone else noticed that the C133 never seems to show up DURING playback? Every time I have seen one, it has been while cruising the menus. 

Paul


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

pgoelz said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the C133 never seems to show up DURING playback? Every time I have seen one, it has been while cruising the menus.


How would you know if you're not in the menus to begin with?


----------



## CrispyCritter

pgoelz said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the C133 never seems to show up DURING playback? Every time I have seen one, it has been while cruising the menus.


Certainly, that's sort of by definition. The C133 error means you are in the UI and can't connect with the TiVo servers for all the "extra" info about related shows, for example. The two main possibilities are that the TiVo servers are down or that you have network problems.

The TiVo servers seem to be going down once every week or two. If you are getting C133 errors more often than that, then it's probably in your network.

One non-obvious network problem that can cause C133 errors is your local network's choice of DNS server. Basically every show related movement in the UI (going between shows or folders in "My Shows" for instance, or just going to TiVo Central for Discovery Bar entries) causes a remarkably large number of DNS queries to go out from the TiVo - it was 4-8 in my tests a year ago. If even one of those gets dropped, you'll have delays, and if enough get dropped you'll get C133 errors. Make sure you have a reliable DNS server, preferably local. People who have moved often have problems because they set their DNS server to something appropriate for their old location and forget to change it (in their router).


----------



## pgoelz

First of all, I have been assuming that it is at least POSSIBLE that C133s are on my end. Therefore, I have been assuming if that is the case then it would affect other things like Netflix streaming, not just menus. Bad assumption? 

As for the DNS server..... interesting. My DNS server is currently set via DHCP from my ISP, which is Comcast. I can try hard coding it in the router to a public DNS server to see if the C133s stop. 

You mentioned that the Tivo servers have been going down "once every week or two". That has been my experience too.... the C133s have occurred once every week or two. The confusion is that whenever I call Tivo, they insist everything is fine on their end. They cite as evidence that they would be getting "thousands of calls" if they were down and they are not. Hence my request here that EVERYONE call them EVERY time they see a C133. 

If this really IS on Tivo's end, all they have to do is say so and I'll go read a book until it comes back up. Denying it is on their end just confuses the issue. 

EDIT: As an experiment, I left my router set to get DNS server info via DHCP but I hard coded the Google Public DNS servers 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 into the Tivo (which already was set to a static IP). Lets see how it goes. 

Paul


----------



## DigitalDawn

TiVoMargret says C133 is on their end, and everything I've seen here agrees with that. No reason to call TiVo -- just wait it out. See post #14.


----------



## pgoelz

Yes, I saw that post. I have tried to contact her privately as well, with no answer so far. 

When the CSRs at Tivo state that it DEFINITELY is NOT on Tivo's end, that makes me worry that they are NOT looking into it because they don't see it as a Tivo problem. Hence my somewhat more aggressive stance on this issue. A little better communication would go a long way here. 

EDIT: While on the phone to Tivo for a totally unrelated (billing) issue, I mentioned the C133 error. The person I was speaking with told me that they have been VERY aware of the issue "for a long time". She said it was a software problem that they thought they fixed last week but "it came back". They are still working on it. That makes me feel a LOT better. Hopefully it will just go away and we'll never notice its absence  

Paul


----------



## mattycb

I guess it's only me but my inability to download the guide and my C133 problems always coincide. So long as I can get a successful connection to the TiVo service to download the listings (which is NOT the same as doing a test connection -- the former can fail while the latter works) I have zero C133 errors.

I tried static IP on the adapter with a new error popping up -- service not found. So today I try static on adapter AND TiVo box itself.

It is INEXCUSABLE that we should have to go through this without nary an apology from TiVo.

Matt B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

"Go through this"? Go through what? A slight delay in downloading Guide Data?

I mean yes, it's a problem. But it's so minor a problem, I can't imagine just what it is that we're "going through"! Please let me know immediately, so I will better know the extent of my suffering.

Thank you.


----------



## mattycb

Rob thanks for the snark. It's more than a slight delay for some of us. For me it was NO program guide for 4 days and therefore no recording.

What we are "going through" is working through this problem as a community with misdirection from TiVo themselves. The definitive solution should be coming from TiVo, not trial-and-errored by a bunch of us.

Matt B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Are you sure you're talking about the same thing as the rest of us? This is the first I've seen of anybody having an outage that lasts anywhere near that long...I had one where I missed two days' GD updates, once; every other time it's been within the same day that I've gotten it back.

And I never missed a recording, even when it was down for two days.


----------



## MACCTVO

I've been having this same C133 problem. It started the day after the Fall upgrade came out. I've called TIVO and insisted on a supervisor. He had me reboot everything. Interestingly, usually if I reboot my Comcast Gateway, the problem clears up ... for a while until it happens again. That would make it seem to be my internal network, but 1) I never had this issue until the Fall software upgrade and 2) I have 6-8 other devices on my network (WiFi and Ethernet) and none of them have had any problems at all.

I sure wish this would get fix, since it's most annoying.


----------



## chrispitude

Getting the C133 message again. Anyone else?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

chrispitude said:


> Getting the C133 message again. Anyone else?


Yep.


----------



## Sixto

Same here.


----------



## Jackamus

This has been happening on my series 4 boxes on and off for a couple. Most of the time it resolves itself. However, today, it seems to be going on and on for hours.. Annoying, but oh well.


----------



## jrboddie

I noticed the service problem about 3 pm EST today. Still out as of 4:45 pm. Just restarted TiVo. No change.


----------



## Jackamus

Nice to see that I am not the only one today.


----------



## treaty

Not the only one - that makes 2 of us 

(Seeing this for the first time on my Premiere 4 right now too)


----------



## employee3

Got this today as well. I'm still evaluating the Roamio for my needs between this and a roku/aereo solution. I was leaning towards the Tivo (and minis) but this kind of thing isn't going to pass the WAF.

Really a foul that it keeps me from using Netflix and Hulu.


----------



## Itproman

TiVoMargret said:


> If you see a C133 message, it is a temporary issue with the TiVo Service. There is no need to reboot or change anything about your setup. It will resolve on its own.


Thankyou for posting this,because I am a new Tivo Rookie and saw this for the first time,today.

I did a websearch and noticed some other,older posts,here where people experienced this,left it and alone and it eventuallyresolved itself.


----------



## BP-isMe

FWIW

I'm getting N17 and N18 errors during Guided Setup of my new Roamio Basic. It makes it thru varying steps of the initial connection then fails.

Looks like the same kind of TiVo server problem that causes the C133 error on previously setup Roamios.

Brad


----------



## kbmb

Ugggh.....yet again another day another C133 Tivo outage.

Hey TivoMargaret....what's going on?

Can't imagine anyone worse at internet services than Apple....but Tivo is coming in a close second!!

-Kevin


----------



## mbernste

I'm getting this as well. At first it was the C133 now it fails at "could not get account status." I never had these issues with my Series 3. This is totally ridiculous.


----------



## nooneuknow

Attn: TiVoMargret

I have three ROAMIOS that I was going to activate today.

I'm re-thinking the situation, since TiVo doesn't reimburse customers for loss of TiVo service, even when the internet works fine all the way to TiVo's front door.


----------



## hybucket

As stated earlier, it's usually no biggie, but the biggie is having to stay on the phone with a CSR who hasn't a clue that it is THEIR problem, not ours. Now, it appears they have a recorded msg before the phone menu saying it is their problem. Last time it happened to me, they did not. It has never lasted more than a few hours for me.


----------



## BP-isMe

I just did a TiVo support chat. He agreed that this sounds like the C133 issue, it is on their end and they are working hard to fix it.

At least he did not argue...

He also told me that I would be a priority fix and I would be getting an offer to buy some prime real estate on a bridge over the east river. So it looks like I won this one!

Brad


----------



## Dan203

Well this sucks! I just got a new lineup last night and was having trouble with it so I did a clear all guide data and now the service is down and it can't connect to repopulate it. So if this doesn't get fixed soon I'm going to miss a bunch of recordings tonight.


----------



## pgoelz

Just another data point. Here in Detroit, noticed the dreaded C133 at about 5:45PM EST (December 3rd). Rebooted the modem and the router.... no change. Good speed tests to Seattle. Good traceroute. I have a static IP and am using public DNS servers 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. That's all I can think of short of rebooting the Tivo. I don't want to corrupt recordings and it doesn't seem to fix it anyway. 

But hey, if they are acknowledging the issue, I'm happy to sit back and wait for a solution. For a while. 

Paul


----------



## jimmypowder

BP-isMe said:


> I just did a TiVo support chat. He agreed that this sounds like the C133 issue, it is on their end and they are working hard to fix it. At least he did not argue... Brad


Just how many times is this gonna happen ??? I paid a fortune for a Roamio plus and lifetime service and I have had this message maybe once weekly since I have owned it .

This is complete nonsense and if it continues I may return the Roamio .


----------



## Haywood

Been getting this all day.


----------



## grey ghost

Yep, another C133 error here.


----------



## jimmypowder

grey ghost said:


> Yep, another C133 error here.


What concerns me about Tivo is it has become more unreliable .

I never used to have these errors but now they seem to pop up every week .

For a service that relies on stable servers , Tivo is failing its customer base .


----------



## Seeg

C133 for me. I'll just wait it out instead of threatening the poor TiVo people. **it happens.


----------



## netscott

I was in the middle of loading my season passes from my kmttg back-up on a new 2tb hard drive. Screen went black. Rebooted but no Tivo service. Put the original HD back in and still had the Tivo server error. Thought I bricked my Roamio. Chatted with CS, had me do all the usual network stuff. I let him know I could see my box on my PC with Tivo desktop and could get pandora. The bells must have gone off around that time. He replied that there is a problem and should have it fixed in the next 24 hours. Talk about code brown.


----------



## generaltso

Why do you suppose you can't use the iOS app to connect to, control, or stream from the TIVo over your local network when the TiVo servers are down? That's really annoying.


----------



## kbmb

generaltso said:


> Why do you suppose you can't use the iOS app to connect to, control, or stream from the TIVo over your local network when the TiVo servers are down? That's really annoying.


Who knows....add it to not being able to edit season passes or delete scheduled recordings.

Amazing how unreliable Tivo is becoming.

-Kevin


----------



## saharasurfer

In CT, getting C133 on and off for the past few hours. ... Rather, stuck on c133 almost continuously with the occasional and momentary connectivity. Rebooted everything but no change. No Romios here. A TiVo Premiere and a series 3 Hd. Neither can see the netflix app and the premiere also lacks the comcast on demand app while this goes on.


----------



## netscott

Yea but you can get paper towels cheap!


----------



## saharasurfer

I had no idea that the premiere tied up the ToDo management when there's no access to the service. Seems like very poor or very heavy handed architecture, or both. What else is locked up with this?


----------



## Wpfma

Just tried to open ipad app and could not connect. Went to roamio and saw the C133 error.


----------



## hooper

I also had the old box stops responding to remote problem crop up. It queued up all my remote commands for about 5 minutes. Assuming it is related to the service error condition. Haven't seen this issue in a LONG time


----------



## larrs

Add me to the list. At least I am not like poor Dan. BTW chat times are through the roof. Must be a bunch of people trying to chat on this issue.


----------



## Avatar26

Same situation here. Really burns me up that I can't access Netflix, iPad app, etc... But the ads still show up on my Roamio... Can serve ads but not services we pay for?!


----------



## Robcasa

I have had my roamio for a couple of weeks and have had this issue several times. The frustrating part is that it appears to render my two minis useless for watching recorded programs. You would think at that point it would all be internal to my network but after speaking with tech support they stated that the server issue would prevent my minis from getting my recorded programs.


----------



## emerz

Looks like me too. Just saw it today when I got home from work. No changes to my network (all other network peripherals are working) and my Roamio has been 100% working for the past 3 months.


----------



## Dan203

OK now I'm getting upset. I stupidly deleted all the guide data on my Roamio thinking the problem was with my new lineup that just came down this morning about 2:00am. Now with the servers down I can't refresh the guide data and I'm going to miss any recordings I have scheduled for tonight. 

They've got about an hour and a half to get this back online before I have to leave. If they don't I'm screwed.


----------



## DrSnoCaps

Same here. Did the usual reboots of everything, diagnostics all pass. C133 error persists.


----------



## ldconfig

This sucks


----------



## redbeard25

Can't connect
Premiere Elite


----------



## DrSnoCaps

A system status with estimated uptime on Tivo.com sure would be helpful in circumstances like this.


----------



## ldconfig

Maybe if they turned off all the logging/spyware el toro poo poo this might not happen. Just sayin'


----------



## brentil

Same issue in Orlando, FL. Network diags all show good and I can connect/download from TiVo but still shows as service being in C133 state.


----------



## Dan203

Robcasa said:


> The frustrating part is that it appears to render my two minis useless for watching recorded programs.


Crap if this affects the Mini my wife is going to be p*ssed when she gets home. I recently replaced an old SD only distribution system with a Mini for her treadmill TV. She exercises every day when she gets home around 5:30pm. If the Mini doesn't work I'm going to get all the blame for it.


----------



## Smirks

C133 here again too. Sucks. That's the 2nd day this week.


----------



## aristoBrat

Dan203 said:


> Crap if this affects the Mini my wife is going to be p*ssed when she gets home. I recently replaced an old SD only distribution system with a Mini for her treadmill TV. She exercises every day when she gets home around 5:30pm. If the Mini doesn't work I'm going to get all the blame for it.


Knock on wood, but the minis in my house are all working OK now. Hopefully the same for your wife! :up:


----------



## KevinG

Same here. C133.

But my Mini is able to play recorded programs on my Roamio without an issue.

Glad I'm in my 30 day trial period...And my S3 hasn't sold yet! Years and years without a single issue on that box. Might be worth keeping.


----------



## rainwater

TiVo should really have some type of service status page or at least provide timely updates when they have service outages. As of now they haven't even acknowledged the problem publicly.


----------



## bogart

What functions does a C133 error affect?


----------



## pautler

I've been seeing this thread for a while but wasn't following it too closely since I had never seen a C133 error on my Roamio.... but tonight it seems that I am in the same club with everyone else. As many others have said, I'm confident that it's not a problem on my end.

The C133 connectivity problem wouldn't be so bad if it didn't cripple so many functions that should be able to work just fine without the unit being able to 'phone home' to the TiVo mother ship.

Hopefully the TiVo folks will get this issue figured out relatively soon.

-Joe


----------



## jrboddie

Back online for me at 8:05 pm. Eastern.


----------



## almighty

Not to pile on, but I've had C133 here since I got home today.


----------



## jimmypowder

pautler said:


> I've been seeing this thread for a while but wasn't following it too closely since I had never seen a C133 error on my Roamio.... but tonight it seems that I am in the same club with everyone else. As many others have said, I'm confident that it's not a problem on my end. The C133 connectivity problem wouldn't be so bad if it didn't cripple so many functions that should be able to work just fine without the unit being able to 'phone home' to the TiVo mother ship. Hopefully the TiVo folks will get this issue figured out relatively soon. -Joe


What did Zuckerburg say in the movie "Social Network " Facebook must never go down . Why ? Because it's critical to the survival of the business .

I purchases a Roamio Plus about two months ago and I have seen this C133 message about twice weekly . In other words about 16 times in two months .

For a service that requires server connectivity , Tivo is letting its customer base down


----------



## wmcbrine

Hopefully this will provoke some redesign to remove needless dependencies on remote servers. (And, to separate dependencies on different servers -- e.g., there's no logical reason for my Reversi to be inaccessible right now, but it is. At least I can still reach other LAN servers and TiVos.)


----------



## bananaman

Down here in San Francisco too.

Also the tivo.com guide-related services have been incredibly slow for a few days now. My Season Passes on tivo.com no longer match those on the actual TiVo's!

Yikes!


----------



## donsullivan

Add me to the list of folks having the same problem in Orlando, FL on 2 Roamio Basic. It's happening right now despite all connectivity working fine. In my case this is the second time in the last week that it's happened.


----------



## rainwater

bogart said:


> What functions does a C133 error affect?


Search is disabled, unable to run any apps (Netflix, etc), unable to edit/create season passes, unable to cancel recordings from My Shows (I have no clue why), unable to use the TiVo app (thus TiVo Stream), What to Watch Now disabled, etc.


----------



## rainwater

jrboddie said:


> Back online for me at 8:05 pm. Eastern.


Not here. Latest connection attempt failed and it is still showing the C133 message on all 3 of my TiVos.


----------



## ignitor87

pgoelz said:


> I tend to believe her as well. At least that is where the evidence available to me is pointing. The problem is that the official line I get from Tivo support is that it is NOT the servers, and that leads me to believe that Tivo is NOT looking into it.
> 
> A little transparency here would go a LONG way. I'll sit back and wait a while if I know Tivo is aware of the issue and is trying to correct it. But all evidence I have so far says they are NOT. They are blaming my network 100% and totally ignoring the possibility that it is on their end.


I couldn't agree more. You have to be proactive in situations like this. I understand that a C133 error could be an issue on the customers end. However, when multiple people are reporting the same error at around the same time, you have to take a look at your infrastructure and communicate any infrastructure issues to your front line support teams so they aren't wasting time troubleshooting C133 errors when there is a known issue. The amount of time wasted on both ends is absolutely ridiculous. Put a flippin banner up when customers go to login or even a automated message advising that there is an issue when customers call in.

I run a network operations department for financial institutions and I still find it hard to believe how many C133 errors I have come across on my Tivo box. With today's technology and data center redundancy, Tivo is either behind in their infrastructure, or this is a Q&A process issue when updating servers.



> Routers that do NAT routing have to keep tables of active connections so they can figure out what goes where. It is quite common for router software to have bugs (Gasp!) that get it confused with lots of connections causing memory leaks and wot-not. That could easily explain rebooting the router fixing things. You could check and see if the router has newer firmware available (but sometimes trying to update firmware just makes things worse


All routers NAT otherwise it's simply a switch. If you have that many active connections that your NAT table gets overloaded then you will have issues with all other devices on your network.

My Troubleshooting Steps;

Can everything else connect? If yes go to Tivocommunity.com and see if the first post is related to c133. If there is, don't waste your time with support and wait for Tivo to fix their system. 

If No,

Go to network Diagnostics ( Settings > Network > Network Diagnostics)

Verify that TCP/DNS Tests Succeeded. Select Test Internet Connection Verify the test passed.

If the above fails;

Disconnect your modem and router.

Reconnect your modem and wait until it's offline. Once the modem is online connect your router. Run the tests again. If this still fails and you verified your internet connection is indeed active reboot your Tivo and run the tests again. If this continues to fail verify layer 1 (cabling). I realize this should be checked first but in home network not much changes constantly like in a datacenter. You will probably know if you moved your router and disconnected cables (or someone should know). ;-)

*side note* I hate rebooting my Tivo, waiting for it to load seems like an eternity. .


----------



## Dan203

jrboddie said:


> Back online for me at 8:05 pm. Eastern.


Mine showed connected for a minute, but when I forced call I got a "connection interrupted" error.


----------



## ustavio

rainwater said:


> Not here. Latest connection attempt failed and it is still showing the C133 message on all 3 of my TiVos.


Yeah. It was up for a few moments. Seemed snappy and fast. Then it went back down.


----------



## weedwhacker2

Still down here 8:33ET 

This sucks!!


----------



## jimmypowder

What is the deal with Tivo servers ? This never used to happen . I've owned Tivo's for years and these error messages have been frequent for months .


----------



## Sevrin grey

Same error message here in the south suburbs of chicago.


----------



## lttu-1212

Healthcare.gov starts working well
and
Tivo stops working well

Coincidence 
(play spooky music ... ooooo.eeeee.ooooo)


----------



## hybucket

8:47 in Boston. Still down. Service problem msg on TiVo phone system. Loooong wait to speak to CSR.


----------



## Itproman

Tivo Twitter post about 40 minutes ago: 

TiVo &#8207;@TiVo 37m

Some people may be experiencing a service issue at this time, but we are working on it now.


----------



## TiVo'Brien

Down here, too.


----------



## gpejsa

Down here near Baltimore MD as well. Thanks for all the posts. Not that having a C133 error is a joy, but if we are all in it, you would HOPE they will fix it quickly.


----------



## Sixto

Just connected fine.


----------



## crxssi

Mine is also down with C133 in Hampton Roads/ Cox and has been for at least 30 min (that is as long as I have had the TV on now)

I would like to know why we are not allowed to delete a recording in progress during this error. That is just stupid. We should be able to play anything, delete anything, and schedule anything, regardless if TiVo's servers are not available for any reason.

I can understand if there are no program icons, or limited program data, or no complex [server-based] searching. But a DVR should not REQUIRE a live connection to TiVo Inc in order to do basic DVR functions.


----------



## ignitor87

crxssi said:


> Mine is also down with C133 in Hampton Roads/ Cox and has been for at least 30 min (that is as long as I have had the TV on now)
> 
> I would like to know why we are not allowed to delete a recording in progress during this error. That is just stupid. We should be able to play anything, delete anything, and schedule anything, regardless if TiVo's servers are not available for any reason.
> 
> I can understand if there are no program icons, or limited program data, or no complex [server-based] searching. But a DVR should not REQUIRE a live connection to TiVo Inc in order to do basic DVR functions.


I agree. :up:


----------



## hooper

I am sitting in front of a blue circle on my roamio. No response to any remote commands. Recordings in progress. Can't do anything


----------



## 21364guy

C133 here as well (Maryland). This box is brand-new and I was trying to finish configuring it (moving season passes, transferring shows). I thought the box was messed up until I saw this thread


----------



## splatt

Having just upgraded from a Series 3 to Roamio I am very surprised and disappointed to see the dependence on Tivo servers for basic functionality.

This notion is an important piece of information for people making Tivo buying decisions especially given the relatively high frequency of outages.

The ability to create a Season Pass should not be dependent on server availability!

I love Tivo but I'm now very frustrated and questioning whether I should revert back to my Series 3. Explaining this new device behavior to my wife and kids is difficult. With the old Tivo everything just 'worked'.


----------



## MMaleto

I have been thinking about canceling Tivo since Friday. Switched to OTA antenna for the weekend and decided I could live without it. Called Tivo around 5pm and asked to cancel. The rep mentioned a $99 deal but it was not for my Premier, had to be a system 3? Not sure if he really new what he was talking about but put me on hold and came back with his best offer to save the account. 2 months free to "think about it"....so I accepted, what the heck.

Went back to my TV and switched input back to Tivo and found the same problems y'all are talking about. before coming here, over 2 hours later and messing with unplugging this and that, forcing this and that....nothing worked.

I thought maybe it's an omen that I should have cancelled and Tivo not working correctly was a sign. ;-)

Sorry that everyone's having this problem, but glad it was not a sign and I am not alone.

1st problem I have ever had in the last few years.


----------



## crxssi

21364guy said:


> C133 here as well (Maryland). This box is brand-new and I was trying to finish configuring it (moving season passes, transferring shows). I thought the box was messed up until I saw this thread


This type of problem is pretty rare. I think I have only seen it a few times in several years. So please don't think it is "normal" for TiVo's stuff. However, that still doesn't excuse the design flaw.

I ask everyone again why deleting an in-progress recording could possibly need to contact TiVo's servers!!!!


----------



## gpejsa

Just chatted with Tivo support....they acknowledge a server upgrade problem and hope to have things back to normal in a few hours...9:30 p.m. ET ...


----------



## ldconfig

crxssi said:


> This type of problem is pretty rare. I think I have only seen it a few times in several years. So please don't think it is "normal" for TiVo's stuff. However, that still doesn't excuse the design flaw.
> 
> I ask everyone again why deleting an in-progress recording could possibly need to contact TiVo's servers!!!!


Because gathering every detail of everything we do and selling it is big money.


----------



## 21364guy

I'd been on the fence in terms of what to do with my TiVo HD now that I just bought the Roamio Plus. Our 2nd DVR today is a verizon fios one, which has actually been quite reliable. So I was either going to replace it with the TiVo HD or sell the TiVo HD and get a Mini. Now I'm much more likely to keep the TiVo HD box since it doesn't have this level of dependence on the TiVo servers. TiVo's reliability has always been one of the reasons I've used the boxes since 2000. I'm a bit disappointed now after spending nearly $800 on the new box and "service."


----------



## morac

Same problem as everyone else. In addition, my Premiere lost all it's apps. There's nothing under the My Video Providers setting.


----------



## jwbelcher

21364guy said:


> I'd been on the fence in terms of what to do with my TiVo HD now that I just bought the Roamio Plus. Our 2nd DVR today is a verizon fios one, which has actually been quite reliable. So I was either going to replace it with the TiVo HD or sell the TiVo HD and get a Mini. Now I'm much more likely to keep the TiVo HD box since it doesn't have this level of dependence on the TiVo servers. TiVo's reliability has always been one of the reasons I've used the boxes since 2000. I'm a bit disappointed now after spending nearly $800 on the new box and "service."


You'd have to pry my TivoHD from my cold dead hands. I've even recently looked at picking up a 2nd as a backup should this one ever go TU.


----------



## mrizzo80

crxssi said:


> This type of problem is pretty rare. I think I have only seen it a few times in several years. So please don't think it is "normal" for TiVo's stuff. However, that still doesn't excuse the design flaw.
> 
> *I ask everyone again why deleting an in-progress recording could possibly need to contact TiVo's servers!!!!*


Maybe related to their analytics offering (Stop/Watch)? Maybe it needs to report these types of interactions (in real-time as opposed to batching them up with the normal daily calls) back to the mothership in order to create the datasets.


----------



## donsullivan

Just discovered that in addition to the errors on the box, the IOS app doesn't work at all on my iPad. It was working fine earlier today. It generates and error that there was a problem connecting to the TiVo service and then shuts down.

Anyone know if there is a page on the TiVo website reporting status of problems like this when they are this widespread? I have been away from TiVo for about 8 years and kind of lost touch


----------



## jwbelcher

mrizzo80 said:


> Maybe related to their analytics offering (Stop/Watch)? Maybe it needs to report these types of interactions (in real-time as opposed to batching them up with the normal daily calls) back to the mothership in order to create the datasets.


What to Watch Now. I bet they use realtime analytics to crowd-source what to watch.


----------



## nooneuknow

Having this on a Premiere?

How to switch to SDUI (TiVo with SD Menus) for less issues/irritation until resolved.

Quick Way: Press Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Pause, Pause

Long Way: Go to Main Menu : Setting & Messages : Settings : Displays : Chose TiVo Menus :TiVo with SD Menus

All your programs can still be watched in HD, the only things in SD are the menus.

You can navigate faster and get hung-up less.

Services like Netflix, Hulu Plus, YouTube, etc. *- still not likely to work.*

For those with anger management issues, it beats having to see that error every time you are in a menu screen!

It's like having a TiVo HD, which many will be familiar with, and should be easy enough for those who aren't.

The only way back to HDUI is the long way through the menus to switch back to "TiVo with HD Menus" (HDUI).


----------



## marlond

netscott said:


> Yea but you can get paper towels cheap!


I literally laughed out loud! Service is down, ads still rolling.


----------



## gothaggis

I rebooted my tivo before coming here to see what the issue is. Now I don't have any pay channels. So now I get to deal with comcast, ugh.


----------



## rainwater

gothaggis said:


> I rebooted my tivo before coming here to see what the issue is. Now I don't have any pay channels. So now I get to deal with comcast, ugh.


Well that has nothing to do with the C133 error being discussed here. No way a TiVo service outage would cause that.


----------



## nooneuknow

gothaggis said:


> I rebooted my tivo before coming here to see what the issue is. Now I don't have any pay channels. So now I get to deal with comcast, ugh.


I'd reboot it again, and manually unplug the Tuning Adapter (if you have one) for at least 15 seconds after the reboot starts.

Tuning Adapters don't truly get reset by a TiVo reboot, the flashing light is just it saying "I've lost communication with the device (TiVo) to which I am attached, or am I?".

Sometime a reboot brings the cablecard up in a way that's incomplete, and a second one will bring it back.

Sometimes it takes up to 15 minutes to get all the premium tables read-in, if a complete re-read of them to the cablecard is necessary, because the card has to read in all the basics, then work it's way up to the premiums, which come last.


----------



## morac

I brought this up the last time this happened, but TiVo really should put something on their web site about this. TiVo did tweet about the problem, but not everyone uses Twitter.


----------



## astrohip

wmcbrine said:


> Hopefully this will provoke some redesign to remove needless dependencies on remote servers.





crxssi said:


> I would like to know why we are not allowed to delete a recording in progress during this error. That is just stupid. We should be able to play anything, delete anything, and schedule anything, regardless if TiVo's servers are not available for any reason.


This is what irritates me the most. Having a network outage is going to happen. It's inevitable (although they should be infrequent, and short-lived). And really, most of us wouldn't even care, as long as it was resolved forthwith.

But to make core functions dependent on talking to the mothership is incredibly poor design, and even worse, arrogant. I've always been a defender of TiVo, but this is (IMHO) very close to the type of behavior that will drive me away. As much as I love TiVo, I don't want my recording functionality dependent on _their _largesse.


----------



## nooneuknow

astrohip said:


> This is what irritates me the most. Having a network outage is going to happen. It's inevitable (although they should be infrequent, and short-lived). And really, most of us wouldn't even care, as long as it was resolved forthwith.
> 
> But to make core functions dependent on talking to the mothership is incredibly poor design, and even worse, arrogant. I've always been a defender of TiVo, but this is (IMHO) very close to the type of behavior that will drive me away. As much as I love TiVo, I don't want my recording functionality dependent on _their _largesse.


At least there will always be this thread to reference, when TiVo worshippers and fanboys claim this NEVER happens, or it's ALWAYS on the user's end (it's YOUR network problem, it's YOUR router), or TiVo tells you it's NOT due to ANYTHING they are aware of, or.............never mind I stopped myself.


----------



## gothaggis

rainwater said:


> Well that has nothing to do with the C133 error being discussed here. No way a TiVo service outage would cause that.


Yes, I'm saying I rebooted my tivo due to me thinking a reboot may solve the C133 error (before coming here and realizing it was a TiVo server issue), and after it rebooted (twice) I have no premium channels, so I'm having to involve comcrap. Have been on hold for 45 minutes so far. I probably need to find that comcast cable card phone number to make things go quickly.


----------



## nooneuknow

gothaggis said:


> Yes, I'm saying I rebooted my tivo due to me thinking a reboot may solve the C133 error (before coming here and realizing it was a TiVo server issue), and after it rebooted (twice) I have no premium channels, so I'm having to involve comcrap. Have been on hold for 45 minutes so far. I probably need to find that comcast cable card phone number to make things go quickly.


Did you read this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9918645#post9918645 ?

Have you looked at the cablecard and (if relevant) Tuning Adapter diag screens? If you have ever looked at the status of the essential screens, there may be some helpful data there that might even stand out.


----------



## rgr

Had I known that TiVo service would be down every 3 or so days and make using the Roamio unusable for many functions (for instance I can't "View Upcoming Episodes" or do a search) I would NOT have moved away from my series3.

TiVo needs to have relevant functions fall back to searching against the downloaded database and not be reliant on access to apparently unstable tivo servers.


----------



## morac

Seems to be back up as the C133 error went away and service connections have gotten past the download stage. 

All my apps are still missing. If they don't come back after the connection finishes, I'll try rebooting.


----------



## nooneuknow

Quick way to just reboot the HDUI and make it attempt it's own (real-time) connection is (from TiVo Central): Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, Play, Play.

Managed to force a manual TiVo Service Connection, still C133 error, tried UI reboot sequence, and hard-reboot, still there.

I'm a tad concerned that people doing full/hard reboots might wind up with data corruption, especially if the indexing/GC is in a vulnerable state.

It's rare, but it DOES happen. Just like 3 page long threads on a day-long C133 error, which might double the chances, and then quadruple it for those frequently rebooting without letting the databases settle.


----------



## zentsang

Oviedo, Florida here.

I also have the C133 error on all my Tivo Premiere 4 and Mini's. Did the usual reboots and still have the error. However, one of my Mini's has successfully made it through the Network Connection exercise under the Settings and shows successful. But when I back out to Tivo Central... I still have the C133 error.

The thing that puzzles me is why does Netflix and Hulu Plus route through Tivo Servers anyway? If the Tivo has internet access and the Tivo Servers go down ... you should still be able to use Netflix and Hulu Plus! WTF Tivo?


----------



## nooneuknow

zentsang said:


> Oviedo, Florida here.
> 
> I also have the C133 error on all my Tivo Premiere 4 and Mini's. Did the usual reboots and still have the error. However, one of my Mini's has successfully made it through the Network Connection exercise under the Settings and shows successful. But when I back out to Tivo Central... I still have the C133 error.
> 
> The thing that puzzles me is why does Netflix and Hulu Plus route through Tivo Servers anyway? If the Tivo has internet access and the Tivo Servers go down ... you should still be able to use Netflix and Hulu Plus! WTF Tivo?


It's a security measure to stop people from running unsubscribed TiVos and getting any use out of anything. TiVo HD, Series 3, and earlier could do this. The first software shipped on the Premiere allowed it if it NEVER made a connection, so they closed up that loophole hard and fast.

I think since a lifetime sub stays with the unit and not the user, they should be somewhat unlocked, and not subject to revocation of service that is PAID IN FULL. IMHO. I guess they are too scared to let anything ever be in that state, instead requiring constant internet to work, in fear it would lead to a TiVo unlock hack (which if TiVo does their usual level of work, and testing, it likely would). IMHO


----------



## Millionaire2K

I have this error on ALL 3 of my Tivo's.

RPro
R
And Prem


----------



## AdamNJ

I've got the error happening on my box too

Anyone else notice that the annoying popup ads and ad in tivo central still works? Funny ain't it?


----------



## rainwater

AdamNJ said:


> I've got the error happening on my box too
> 
> Anyone else notice that the annoying popup ads and ad in tivo central still works? Funny ain't it?


Pretty sure everyone is getting the error. And the ads are downloaded to the box so it is not surprising they still work.


----------



## tvmaster2

yes...ads are AOK...that is funny, isn't it?


----------



## caughey

nooneuknow said:


> Quick way to just reboot the HDUI and make it attempt it's own (real-time) connection is (from TiVo Central): Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, Play, Play.


That's a neat trick, where did you learn that? It didn't help, but it's neat.

Like you I was able to get through a manual connection--the first failed during the download, the next two didn't even make it through the connection step, but the fourth time worked.

Some people said they weren't able to stop recordings in progress, but I can do that. I couldn't cancel an upcoming recording, but i could schedule a new recording, but then I couldn't cancel that one either. Odd behavior, that. TiVo-TiVo transfer seems to work fine.

I had a moment of panic (that's too strong a word) when I noticed it wasn't recording a couple of my Tuesday shows, then I realized they were repeats. Phew!

I've had several normally reliable sites misbehaving lately. I think all the IT people have been drafted to fix Obamacare.


----------



## nooneuknow

rainwater said:


> Pretty sure everyone is getting the error. And the ads are downloaded to the box so it is not surprising they still work.


Plus they still generate revenue for TiVo for every single time somebody brings the subject up and everybody clicks all the ads to check if all of theirs work. All those ad clicks are saved and WILL BE uploaded once the service is back up.

We lose functionality, TiVo still makes money, and then some, just because every mention of the ads still working makes people itchy to check them!

In what world is THIS right? Oh yeah, in the world of those worried more about TiVo going out of business than anything else. I sure hope those folks are giving a standing ovation to TiVo right now!

Support TiVo, and keep them in business by clicking on ads instead of the things you can't use! Click faster!!!! Keep clicking!!!!!!!


----------



## cwoody222

I called to complain around 9:30pm EST and the rep told me it'd be fixed in two hours.

Nope... Still not fixed.

Can't complain now since their customer care line is closed (because clearly they think its 1999 still).

Soooooooo bad. They're a joke after this.

They failed miserably with this problem.


----------



## rainwater

nooneuknow said:


> Plus they still generate revenue for TiVo for every single time somebody brings the subject up and everybody clicks all the ads to check if all of theirs work. All those ad clicks are saved and WILL BE uploaded once the service is back up.
> 
> We lose functionality, TiVo still makes money, and then some, just because every mention of the ads still working makes people itchy to check them!
> 
> In what world is THIS right? Oh yeah, in the world of those worried more about TiVo going out of business than anything else. I sure hope those folks are giving a standing ovation to TiVo right now!
> 
> Support TiVo, and keep them in business by clicking on ads instead of the things you can't use! Click faster!!!! Keep clicking!!!!!!!


To be fair, the ads are saved and basically work like they have since the Series2 days. So it isn't like TiVo has spent more resources on ads on the Roamio platform. The issue is the HDUI is reliant on the server in many areas where there should at least be a fall back. It is not some elaborate scheme to spend more time on developing ads versus working on the UI. It is just bad HDUI design.


----------



## nooneuknow

caughey said:


> That's a neat trick, where did you learn that? It didn't help, but it's neat.


TiVo early adopter days: Before I sent the **** back and gave it two years to get half-way done. It was a frequent flier on the Facebook TiVo page, as their solution for everything.

In this scenario, it helped keep your databases from being corrupted by rebooting the whole thing, when, if needed at all, you can just reboot the User Interface without missing/loosing/clipping recordings as another bonus.

*Trick for those who missed it:*Quick way to just reboot the HDUI and make it attempt it's own (real-time) connection is (from TiVo Central): Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, Play, Play.


----------



## nooneuknow

rainwater said:


> To be fair, the ads are saved and basically work like they have since the Series2 days. So it isn't like TiVo has spent more resources on ads on the Roamio platform. The issue is the HDUI is reliant on the server in many areas where there should at least be a fall back. It is not some elaborate scheme to spend more time on developing ads versus working on the UI. It is just bad HDUI design.


I know all that, and wasn't making accusations in the way you say. I'm also not in disagreement with you, at all really.

*It was good old fashioned sarcasm, to try and get people to quit checking if their ads actually all work, all the way through to the last click.*


----------



## consumedsoul

I'm still seeing the error, is this supposed to be globally resolved by now?


----------



## nooneuknow

consumedsoul said:


> I'm still seeing the error, is this supposed to be globally resolved by now?


Nope, the evening programs are on, so everybody quit posting every ten seconds and started watching TV (my best guess, since I still have C133 in Nevada).


----------



## caughey

According to @TiVo 14 minutes ago:


> Thank you for flagging this for us. It is known and were working to address it now.


Also 2 and 3 hours ago.


----------



## morac

It started working on one box, but not the other (well it did briefly, but broke again).

It would be nice if TiVo put something on their web site about this. I think that's the first place regular people will check and currently it looks the same as it usually does.


----------



## morac

caughey said:


> According to @TiVo 14 minutes ago: Also 2 and 3 hours ago.


TiVo's twitter account currently appears to be a bot. It's responding to all mentions with the same reply.


----------



## questors

In Anaheim CA, I have had the C133 error all day and it's still there.


----------



## Beryl

Still happening in Centennial, CO.


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> Seems to be back up as the C133 error went away and service connections have gotten past the download stage. .


Maybe for you it did. It is 12:30am here and it is still down and displaying C133 (1.5 hours after your report that it is up for you).


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> TiVo's twitter account currently appears to be a bot. It's responding to all mentions with the same reply.


Did you ever think it was anything else? Just Kidding, don't kill me. Oh, wait, that describes my phone conversations with CS, as well (that's actually some pretty scary truth). 

I guess the TiVo server farms became self-aware, while the people slowly became androids. Makes sense now...

I might as well post I'm still down. The best I can get is a forced service connection every hour or two, the C133 still stands tall, never once going away the whole day (unless I wasn't looking and missed it).


----------



## Dan203

Mine came back for a while and got enough data to record some stuff tonight, but not everything. Luckily my wife doesn't record anything on her XL4 on Tuesdays so I was able to get everything on her's.


----------



## robertswinter

Same C133 Error all day.Half Moon Bay, CA


----------



## jwbelcher

Let's hope there wasn't a major database loss. Recovering all the guide data to allow services to resume could take a while. A few months ago Slingbox screwed up / corrupted their remote control database. It took several weeks for them to restore all of that. 

If Tivo is going the way of services they better have more redundancy across the US. Having all subscribers hit one "mother-ship" server is a complete lack of planning and serious recipe for disaster. Minimally there should be a fail-over site; maybe they should start looking into AWS.


----------



## moyekj

FYI while the Netflix access from My Shows is not accessible it does still work from "Find TV, Movies, & Videos". Watching Netflix right now without issues on my Roamio Pro with C133 errors still present.


----------



## robertswinter

jwbelcher you are TOTALLY correct on the systems and procedures they should have in placean all day outage is pretty unacceptable. And without even a post on their website. I sure hope they are reading this thread. Major operations and customer service screwup. Given the all day, as CEO I would make management changes.


----------



## jwbelcher

robertswinter said:


> jwbelcher you are TOTALLY correct on the systems and procedures they should have in placean all day outage is pretty unacceptable. And without even a post on their website. I sure hope they are reading this thread. Major operations and customer service screwup. Given the all day, as CEO I would make management changes.


Honestly, this should make it to Engadget. A CEO will start applying the right "pressures" when issues like this one start to get visible coverage.


----------



## robertswinter

Agreed &#8230; does someone know how to post to endadget and slashgear and others. It is newsworthy.


----------



## rgr

jwbelcher said:


> Let's hope there wasn't a major database loss. Recovering all the guide data to allow services to resume could take a while. A few months ago Slingbox screwed up / corrupted their remote control database. It took several weeks for them to restore all of that.
> 
> If Tivo is going the way of services they better have more redundancy across the US. Having all subscribers hit one "mother-ship" server is a complete lack of planning and serious recipe for disaster. Minimally there should be a fail-over site; maybe they should start looking into AWS.


Exactly. But still say that first fail-over should be to go back to what worked on the series3 and before - use the local, downloaded database. Sure, I won't be able to search for programs I could download, but at least I could search for the channels I receive for almost the next 2 weeks. Which is 98% of what I'm looking for.

This is a huge failure on TiVo's part, and there should be some recourse for failure to provide the service subscribed to, whether on a monthly or lifetime basis. How long does it have to be out before they have to refund some money? And how would that work for us lifetime subscribers?


----------



## jwbelcher

robertswinter said:


> Agreed  does someone know how to post to endadget and slashgear and others. It is newsworthy.


Yep :

http://www.engadget.com/about/tips/


----------



## robertswinter

Additionally (though marginal ~$0.50 per day) user should be credited for this day and any additional days we are paying for.


----------



## robertswinter

Posted on Engadget. Hope others do as well&#8230;.


----------



## jwbelcher

rgr said:


> Exactly. But still say that first fail-over should be to go back to what worked on the series3 and before - use the local, downloaded database. Sure, I won't be able to search for programs I could download, but at least I could search for the channels I receive for almost the next 2 weeks. Which is 98% of what I'm looking for.
> 
> This is a huge failure on TiVo's part, and there should be some recourse for failure to provide the service subscribed to, whether on a monthly or lifetime basis. How long does it have to be out before they have to refund some money? And how would that work for us lifetime subscribers?


You bet, right now you can't even view upcoming episodes of programs from your local guide data and don't even try to setup a new season pass. The joys of the cloud. Unreal.


----------



## Devx

While I'm a bit shocked that the service is still down since I can't remember a Tivo outage ever being this long, that's not what I find most disappointing. I expect occasional outages, it happens, so it probably comes in third with communication second. 

As others have mentioned, what really gets me is how dependent the Roamio is on the Tivo servers. Being one of those that rarely saw the C133 error, I either wasn't aware or had forgotten how bad it can be. I'm thinking maybe I answered the latest survey incorrectly on the thing I would most like to change about the Roamio. It would be preferable to remove the dependency entirely but at the least, there should be a grace period before the box goes into lockdown mode. Then, if there was a service outage, impact would be minimized and some might not even notice other than the absence of the discovery bar. For example, as nooneuknow mentioned, using the Premiere in SDUI mode has no problem at all with basic DVR functions. Since the Roamio has no SDUI mode, there is no workaround other than to wait for Tivo to restore service.


----------



## jwbelcher

Margret just sent out two tweets; 
1) expects services restored by morning
2) agreed to look into adding a network status to tivo.com


----------



## dglion

Wanna hear something funny?

After a solid month of dealing with TWC and TiVo involving 3 Roamio replacements, 16 cablecards and 2 tuning adapters, I finally got a fix this morning that allowed my Roamio to finish downloading my channel lineup for the *first time*. For a brief time I could actually see all my channels and then I went to Tivo Central and discovered the infamous C133 error. Per TiVo's troubleshooting tips, I ran Guided Setup only to be told by TiVo's help line that they had a major server crash and there was no way out of Guided Setup until they got the server back up. I have a totally useless Roamio again!!!! (My reliable, 7 yr old S3 is the only thing keeping me sane right now.)


----------



## jwbelcher

Devx said:


> Since the Roamio has no SDUI mode, there is no workaround other than to wait for Tivo to restore service.


Attempted the thumbs up / down, pause pause thing on Roamio. It acted like it was "processing" with the waiting graphic. Then just immediately went back to Tivo Central. I'd bet money that SDUI is in there, but just blocked on Roamio.


----------



## Icarus

I managed to force a connection, all other attempts seem to be failing at one point or another. Sometimes in the preparing step, sometimes when requesting account status, etc.

Looks like I just forced a 2nd connection .. it's "Loading info" now.

I'm still seeing C133 in TiVo Central. No change even after restarting the HDUI a couple of times.

-David


----------



## CoxInPHX

moyekj said:


> FYI while the Netflix access from My Shows is not accessible it does still work from "Find TV, Movies, & Videos". Watching Netflix right now without issues on my Roamio Pro with C133 errors still present.


None of the streaming services are even listed for me.

Still getting a C133 in TiVo Central, and no OTT services, but I was able to successfully complete a network connection.

I wonder how the MSO partners are reacting to this extended outage?


----------



## nooneuknow

robertswinter said:


> Additionally (though marginal ~$0.50 per day) user should be credited for this day and any additional days we are paying for.


While I fully agree with that, I'm sure those who paid for lifetime product service would be excluded.

What are they going to do, make the PLS auto-destruct they secretly slipped in hold out longer before a catastrophic failure ends the life of the product?  (kidding, for those who can't tell).

Still no improvement, or even a flicker of the C133 error going away, here in NV.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> None of the streaming services are even listed for me.
> 
> Still getting a C133 in TiVo Central, and no OTT services, but I was able to successfully complete a network connection.
> 
> I wonder how the MSO partners are reacting to this extended outage?


   Has there been a confirmation that the MSO boxes are without service?   

I'd assumed, from launch, that they'd be on their own, properly designed server/network/internet infrastructure. If they are down too, this WILL be in tomorrow's (today's) news!


----------



## jwbelcher

nooneuknow said:


> I'd assumed, from launch, that they'd be on their own, properly designed server/network/internet infrastructure. If they are down too, this WILL be in tomorrow's (today's) news!


Do MSO boxes even require a Ethernet / Internet connection? I'd really expect them to be fed from the head-end, maybe docsis, systems like a traditional cable box. Back in the day, I loved DirecTivo since it didn't require a phone connection to download guide data.


----------



## nooneuknow

Devx said:


> While I'm a bit shocked that the service is still down since I can't remember a Tivo outage ever being this long, that's not what I find most disappointing. I expect occasional outages, it happens, so it probably comes in third with communication second.
> 
> As others have mentioned, what really gets me is how dependent the Roamio is on the Tivo servers. Being one of those that rarely saw the C133 error, I either wasn't aware or had forgotten how bad it can be. I'm thinking maybe I answered the latest survey incorrectly on the thing I would most like to change about the Roamio. It would be preferable to remove the dependency entirely but at the least, there should be a grace period before the box goes into lockdown mode. Then, if there was a service outage, impact would be minimized and some might not even notice other than the absence of the discovery bar. For example, as nooneuknow mentioned, using the Premiere in SDUI mode has no problem at all with basic DVR functions. Since the Roamio has no SDUI mode, there is no workaround other than to wait for Tivo to restore service.


I started off the day expecting to activate my hard-fought-for Roamios, then decided not a good day to do it, for obvious reasons.

Mid-day, I'm posting I'm thinking of returning them, instead.

After reading this post, and dealing with this on Premieres all day, after just making the sale of my LT HDs, I realize *THINGS CAN BE WORSE*, being a Roamio-owner!!!   

I might just stop getting the Premiere boxes and packaging out of the attic, keep the things, listed in my sig, and tell Best Buy to tell TiVo, *to take their Roamios & shove-em, and forget any new subscriptions!*

Yeah, I know, don't shoot the retailer, they just sell the things....


----------



## nooneuknow

jwbelcher said:


> Do MSO boxes even require a Ethernet / Internet connection? I'd really expect them to be fed from the head-end, maybe docsis, systems like a traditional cable box. Back in the day, I loved DirecTivo since it didn't require a phone connection to download guide data.


Good question! I thought the guy who would know joined us a few posts back, bringing up the MSO partners, which I somehow didn't think about all day...


----------



## CoxInPHX

jwbelcher said:


> Do MSO boxes even require a Ethernet / Internet connection? I'd really expect them to be fed from the head-end, maybe docsis, systems like a traditional cable box. Back in the day, I loved DirecTivo since it didn't require a phone connection to download guide data.





nooneuknow said:


> Good question! I thought the guy who would know joined us a few posts back, bringing up the MSO partners, which I somehow didn't think about all day...


http://www.rcn.com/tivo/faqs/
*What do I need to get TiVo Premiere from RCN?*

Youll need our Digital TV service to power your TiVo Premiere. Also, *youll need RCN High-Speed Internet, along with either an in-home wireless network or a hard-wired Internet connection.* If you wish to connect your TiVo Premiere to your wireless network, you must also have either a MoCA bridge or a TiVo Wireless Network Adapter, both of which you can get through RCN.​


----------



## notyou

Hey, I think we're back up! (12:53AM PST San Jose)


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> http://www.rcn.com/tivo/faqs/
> *What do I need to get TiVo Premiere from RCN?*
> 
> You'll need our Digital TV service to power your TiVo Premiere. Also, *you'll need RCN High-Speed Internet, along with either an in-home wireless network or a hard-wired Internet connection.* If you wish to connect your TiVo Premiere to your wireless network, you must also have either a MoCA bridge or a TiVo Wireless Network Adapter, both of which you can get through RCN.​


As always, thanks for the info, and link. (Now, stand back, or you might get something on you).

[/begin rant]
Well, that just leaves me dying to know how TiVo's MSO partner Roamios have been doing for the past (just a bit short of) 24 hours.

I don't know if I'll be returning the Roamios I picked up, in a PM+GC, PM+GC, PM+GC chain of purchases, or feeling like it's worth the money, finding various creative ways to destroy them, make a video of each method, and start a YouTube video series, making sure to send TiVo, Inc. copies first...

If they've suffered any less than retail has, if I were me, I'd steer clear of me, when the verdict comes in on that, if they've been prioritized to the extent of keeping retail down and out, as the cost of doing so.

How could I spend so much time on here, reading so much up to, during, and beyond launch, only to find out about the Achilles Heel of the Roamios, which is so far worse than even the Premieres (which I knew about right away), even exists? *How did I miss the thread that tells of the Roamios not even maintaining the most simple of DVR core functions, in the event that it doesn't have constant and contiguous infusions of life breathed into it via something as easily disrupted as internet service? That's not even going into the realm of TiVo's end being down like this.*    
[/end rant]

Still not let up at all, in southern Nevada. Not even a flicker.


----------



## lgnad

I just came back on, moments ago.... And it's out again. Lol


----------



## nooneuknow

notyou said:


> Hey, I think we're back up! (12:53AM PST San Jose)


Uh, no offense intended, at all, seriously, *the thread has been peppered with optimistic posts for the whole duration, from some areas that apparently are getting intermittent bursts of connectivity, followed by, "nope, down again".* I think the "temporary zones of hope" may be moving around, just like internet outages can, or it's just random "luck" (just doesn't seem to be the right word).

*It would be nice if people gave things at least 5 minutes, see if they can also make a manual TiVo Service Connection, from the Network menu, then see if it completes, then see if the C133 is back, then post "I'm up here in, (insert general location), for (insert time you waited to post), then take one last look before hitting post.*

I was hoping in the time it took me to post this, that maybe I'd see something, anything, change... NOPE! Still no change in Southern NV.


----------



## notyou

nooneuknow said:


> Uh, no offense intended, at all, seriously, *the thread has been peppered with optimistic posts for the whole duration, from some areas that apparently are getting intermittent bursts of connectivity, followed by, "nope, down again".* I think the "temporary zones of hope" may be moving around, just like internet outages can, or it's just random "luck" (just doesn't seem to be the right word).
> 
> *It would be nice if people gave things at least 5 minutes, see if they can also make a manual TiVo Service Connection, from the Network menu, then see if it completes, then see if the C133 is back, then post "I'm up here in, (insert general location), for (insert time you waited to post), then take one last look before hitting post.*
> 
> I was hoping in the time it took me to post this, that maybe I'd see something, anything, change... NOPE! Still no change in Southern NV.


Sorry, you're right. I'm still having issues with my Stream which was all I really wanted to play with tonight.

I was actually in the middle of posting my similar sob story along with two tweets I sent to @tivodesign, which appears to be the most knowledgable source of info at the moment (thanks Margret!):



> @tivodesign Thx for updates. *Hate* that Twitter is now defacto CS. Oh well. You need to give Ops have the @TiVo account password though.
> 
> @tivodesign And yeah, if you're going to be so cloud-dependent, then emulate status.aws.amazon.com or status.twitter.com please :-/


BTW, I just noticed your handle. I feel a certain kinship with ya man. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## nooneuknow

notyou said:


> Sorry, you're right. I'm still having issues with my Stream which was all I really wanted to play with tonight.
> 
> I was actually in the middle of posting my similar sob story along with two tweets I sent to @tivodesign, which appears to be the most knowledgable source of info at the moment (thanks Margret!):


No need to apologize. It was a suggestion for all, which I've been holding onto for awhile, and figured 24 hours was long enough. 


notyou said:


> BTW, I just noticed your handle. I feel a certain kinship with ya man.


BTW, I thought the same thing! A little humor getting between all my p***, vinegar, and vitriol is a much welcome reprieve. 

C133 watch: No change, down, Southern NV.


----------



## bareyb

/subscribe. My Elite is afflicted too.


----------



## Dan203

Ok this is stupid! You can't even cancel a recording because of this? It's ridiculous that the UI is so heavily dependent on the internet connection. I understand search, but you should still be able to do something as basic as cancel a recording. 

On the plus side the ads are still working. :down:


----------



## rjrustia

Still out here in FL. Wonder what the problem is that would be so catastrophic? Wonder if IT is on the same work schedule as CS.


----------



## mattycb

Ok gang I got up today (Tuesday) planning to do another test to get my N adapter working. You see my G adapter was having no problems ... until today.

Now I'm REALLY annoyed. I was convinced the C133 was N adapter related because the error stopped when I swapped in my G. Now I get the C133 on my G and I'm really gonna pop up a blood vessel if I find that overnight the machine doesn't update the program guide. I already went four days last week with no program guide.

It's not like some of us don't have an ongoing financial relationship with TiVo. I pay them $20 a month for this particular box (for the program guide) and I expect it to work. I've been a TiVo user at least 10 years and have never encountered this level of technical incompetence.

And if anyone here doesn't believe that this is the result of the recent upgrade, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Sorry for the rant but this is getting old.

Matt B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mbernste

Here it is 5:21 AM eastern and the C133 persists. This is the longest outage I can remember. Interestingly enough the "blue light" came on and Tekzilla downloaded without an issue, so there are some signs of life.

TiVo should have done better capacity planning when it came to their servers and the Roamio. Like others have said, a status page would be very helpful and make the customer support queues decrease.


----------



## Dan203

It's been dropping in/out all night.


----------



## chrispitude

I'll repeat what others have said (just so I feel better).

First, in our company's helpdesk, they have large monitors hung from the ceiling with realtime status/ping displays to all the major servers in the company's extended geographical network. As soon as anything goes red, a ticket is automatically generated, and they get people on it. If TiVo's servers are so essential to the function of their DVR, they should have the same thing, and (as others have said) they should note such problems proactively on their website and in their phone support menu.

Second, why in the WORLD is a DVR so dependent on an Internet connection? All that should matter is that a connection is successful at least often enough to keep the guide data supplied. Beyond that, all other data should be optional. What if my Internet provider (or ANY provider node between me and TiVo) is having its own issues unrelated to the TiVo servers? What about power outages, for folks with generators who can stay powered while the outside world is kaput?


----------



## chrispitude

dglion said:


> Wanna hear something funny?
> 
> After a solid month of dealing with TWC and TiVo involving 3 Roamio replacements, 16 cablecards and 2 tuning adapters, I finally got a fix this morning that allowed my Roamio to finish downloading my channel lineup for the *first time*. For a brief time I could actually see all my channels and then I went to Tivo Central and discovered the infamous C133 error. Per TiVo's troubleshooting tips, I ran Guided Setup only to be told by TiVo's help line that they had a major server crash and there was no way out of Guided Setup until they got the server back up. I have a totally useless Roamio again!!!! (My reliable, 7 yr old S3 is the only thing keeping me sane right now.)


I'm glad I'm not the only one this kind of crap happens to. Good luck.


----------



## nooneuknow

Dan203 said:


> Ok this is stupid! You can't even cancel a recording because of this? It's ridiculous that the UI is so heavily dependent on the internet connection. I understand search, but you should still be able to do something as basic as cancel a recording.
> 
> On the plus side the ads are still working. :down:


*So, I'm seeing a clear pattern emerging here:*

[/start observations & some ranting]
*So many respected members chiming in *(I won't count myself), *and this is the first we are ALL realizing* that migrating to Roamio, leads us to find out, for the first time, being now, only due to this service blackout, that the old saying about no active realtime constant internet, or an issue on the other end of things *(TiVo, the company) turns the Premiere into a brick with only basic DVR functionality, making the Premiere A BETTER PLATFORM, AND THE ROAMIO, WORST POSSIBLE ONE EVER DEVISED???*

I'm starting to feel like *this situation*, which pulls the wool from our eyes, and *exposes things for what they really are*, is a blessing, maybe a holiday miracle!

I didn't get to lifetime my Roamios today because of this.

Those who have, or have entered into a monthly contract: *HAVE A 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE*
What if a natural disaster somewhere AROUND the country, takes out internet service for weeks? It happens! *How will you like the Roamio then?*

What if cyber-attacks cripple the internet? *How will you like it then?*
I think people should be turning their focus towards this, and if you can, and *if you are not OK with all the things that can put your Roamio into its current state, SPEAK WITH YOUR WALLETS AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK.*

*I'm kicking myself for not opting out of their new terms on litigation*, and giving up the means I could have kept, to expose, what I consider a complete and utter *FRAUD!*

Of course, *TiVo did as they always do*, and *set the new terms to cover their backside, and bare ours, before the launch of a product, which they did not state that now we just have to bend over and take it, if we don't dance to their choice of song, which is the worst one ever wrote!*
[/end observations and some rating]

Southern NV, still down, C133, no service connections, nada.


----------



## rjrustia

C133 gone. Manual connection to mothership successful. Discovery Bar still up. I'm afraid to say it, but I think (hope) it's back up here in North Central FL. (fingers crossed)


----------



## nooneuknow

chrispitude said:


> I'll repeat what others have said (just so I feel better).
> 
> First, in our company's helpdesk, they have large monitors hung from the ceiling with realtime status/ping displays to all the major servers in the company's extended geographical network. As soon as anything goes red, a ticket is automatically generated, and they get people on it. If TiVo's servers are so essential to the function of their DVR, they should have the same thing, and (as others have said) they should note such problems proactively on their website and in their phone support menu.
> 
> Second, why in the WORLD is a DVR so dependent on an Internet connection? All that should matter is that a connection is successful at least often enough to keep the guide data supplied. Beyond that, all other data should be optional. What if my Internet provider (or ANY provider node between me and TiVo) is having its own issues unrelated to the TiVo servers? What about power outages, for folks with generators who can stay powered while the outside world is kaput?


Amen! If I had seen your post, I could've held back the rant a few posts ahead, or at least some of it! :up: to you! :down::down::down: to TiVo!


----------



## DeltaOne

C133 gone here too (it was there about 30 minutes ago when I woke up). 

But, as others have posted, the C133 has been in and out all night (obviously TiVo is working to correct the problem and hasn't been having much success). 

A question though -- had the C133 errors last night while watching recorded shows. I was able to delete the shows as we finished them. Others here have posted they can't delete during a C133 event. Why is that?

...I didn't try scheduling a recording during the C133 event, I don't know if that would have worked.


----------



## rjrustia

DeltaOne said:


> C133 gone here too (it was there about 30 minutes ago when I woke up).
> 
> But, as others have posted, the C133 has been in and out all night (obviously TiVo is working to correct the problem and hasn't been having much success).
> 
> A question though -- had the C133 errors last night while watching recorded shows. I was able to delete the shows as we finished them. Others here have posted they can't delete during a C133 event. Why is that?
> 
> ...I didn't try scheduling a recording during the C133 event, I don't know if that would have worked.


The problem was you couldn't delete a show while it was still recording.

BTW, still up (20 min and counting).


----------



## nooneuknow

*1 HOUR minute mark with:*

*NO* C133
1st service connection (manual) COMPLETED!
*NO* C133
2nd service connection (manual) *FAILED!*
*NO* C133
2nd service connection (manual) 2nd attempt COMPLETED!
*NO* C133
3rd service connection (manual) COMPLETED! *(2 consecutive connections!)*
*NO* C133

*That's what I'd call a good status report for being up, properly done! :up:*
(So what if it's mine? I've been up for 36 hours!)

*It will take two consecutive completed service connections to:*
clear your logfile backlog
begin properly repopulating the guide
ensure GC completes (Garbage Collection)

Some of these mostly-hidden operations may only apply to Premieres and older platforms (I honestly don't know the full amount of what no longer resides on a Roamio).

*Report from Southern NV*

*Good luck, everybody! - Don't forget to get your money back while you still can, if applicable!*
.


----------



## atmuscarella

I have watch the posts about TiVo's server outage with some amusement. 

Yes we lost some functionality for a few hours. I understand that for some people it was a pain and if you actually needed/wanted some of the functionality that was disabled, I can understand being unhappy. But honestly I watch the same shows I was going to watch and my Roamio recorded the same shows it was supposed to without issue which is the primary function of a DVR. I looked this morning and it appears my Podcasts downloaded last night like usual and everything appears to be back to normal. 

I have had my ISP be down for much longer periods which results in the same issues with my TiVos plus significantly disrupts me in many more ways.


----------



## mburnno

nooneuknow said:


> *So, I'm seeing a clear pattern emerging here:*
> 
> [/start observations & some ranting]
> *So many respected members chiming in *(I won't count myself), *and this is the first we are ALL realizing* that migrating to Roamio, leads us to find out, for the first time, being now, only due to this service blackout, that the old saying about no active realtime constant internet, or an issue on the other end of things *(TiVo, the company) turns the Premiere into a brick with only basic DVR functionality, making the Premiere A BETTER PLATFORM, AND THE ROAMIO, WORST POSSIBLE ONE EVER DEVISED???*
> 
> I'm starting to feel like *this situation*, which pulls the wool from our eyes, and *exposes things for what they really are*, is a blessing, maybe a holiday miracle!
> 
> I didn't get to lifetime my Roamios today because of this.
> 
> Those who have, or have entered into a monthly contract: *HAVE A 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE*
> What if a natural disaster somewhere AROUND the country, takes out internet service for weeks? It happens! *How will you like the Roamio then?*
> 
> What if cyber-attacks cripple the internet? *How will you like it then?*
> I think people should be turning their focus towards this, and if you can, and *if you are not OK with all the things that can put your Roamio into its current state, SPEAK WITH YOUR WALLETS AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK.*
> 
> *I'm kicking myself for not opting out of their new terms on litigation*, and giving up the means I could have kept, to expose, what I consider a complete and utter *FRAUD!*
> 
> Of course, *TiVo did as they always do*, and *set the new terms to cover their backside, and bare ours, before the launch of a product, which they did not state that now we just have to bend over and take it, if we don't dance to their choice of song, which is the worst one ever wrote!*
> [/end observations and some rating]
> 
> Southern NV, still down, C133, no service connections, nada.


Amen for your post brother!!!! I have been very vocal about the new Roamio and how crappy the new product was when it first arrived out the door. But every time I vented about it on this forum I was shot down by someone making excuses for Tivo. I wish I had canceled my service before locking in to a one year contract. I will say what I have said in the past, Tivo has no excuse for putting such a crappy product on the market without testing it first.

I don't want to hear from people that they are working out the kinks or any of that BS. When you pay anywhere from $300 - $500 for a box you want it to work period and you want the Tech support to not feed you a bunch of BS of how they don't support switches and hub. Who in the F**k doesn't support their product using a switch or a hub and then blame your network when they know full well that is not the problem. Comcast X1 platform is looking mighty good wright now. I am sure Comcast has their problems but at least they will give you a service credit on your bill. Try getting one from Tivo for what happen last night and see what they tell you. Any how I finish with my rant and I hope people see Tivo for what they have became.


----------



## nyjklein

atmuscarella said:


> I have watch the posts about TiVo's server outage with some amusement.


Yes, more than amusing. In a major Internet outage caused by a natural disaster or cyber attack, I think our TiVos losing some functionality will be the least of our worries.

Jeff


----------



## chiguy50

atmuscarella said:


> I have watch the posts about TiVo's server outage with some amusement.
> 
> Yes we lost some functionality for a few hours. I understand that for some people it was a pain and if you actually needed/wanted some of the functionality that was disabled, I can understand being unhappy. But honestly I watch the same shows I was going to watch and my Roamio recorded the same shows it was supposed to without issue which is the primary function of a DVR. I looked this morning and it appears my Podcasts downloaded last night like usual and everything appears to be back to normal.
> 
> I have had my ISP be down for much longer periods which results in the same issues with my TiVos plus significantly disrupts me in many more ways.


Thank you for that perspective from the real world.

I hate, hate, hate seeing the C133 error on my TiVo's, and I fully agree that TiVo absolutely must address their lack of preparedness for these (admittedly very rare) service outages or at the very least provide more proactive notification to users of system issues and their status. But nothing's perfect, s**t happens, and life goes on.

On a related note, my wife forgot to take out the garbage this morning and I'm thinking of kicking her to the curb.


----------



## crxssi

jwbelcher said:


> Margret just sent out two tweets;
> 1) expects services restored by morning
> 2) agreed to look into adding a network status to tivo.com


Notably absent was

3) Work to make the DVR's not dependent on TiVo's servers for basic functionality like stopping recordings...


----------



## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> Ok this is stupid! You can't even cancel a recording because of this?


Dan, I posted about that yesterday, many hours ago... and several times!!! Wake up!!


----------



## hooper

atmuscarella said:


> I have watch the posts about TiVo's server outage with some amusement.
> 
> Yes we lost some functionality for a few hours. I understand that for some people it was a pain and if you actually needed/wanted some of the functionality that was disabled, I can understand being unhappy. But honestly I watch the same shows I was going to watch and my Roamio recorded the same shows it was supposed to without issue which is the primary function of a DVR. I looked this morning and it appears my Podcasts downloaded last night like usual and everything appears to be back to normal.
> 
> I have had my ISP be down for much longer periods which results in the same issues with my TiVos plus significantly disrupts me in many more ways.


I couldn't use the Roamio at all. It kept going into blue circles when I tried to navigate anywhere. Everyone who had premieres remembers the whole stops responding issue. It was this but even worse. 1 remote press would lock up the box for 5 minutes or more. Then it just stopped responding completely.

I wouldn't care about the outage if this wasn't the case. I had to reboot with the ethernet cable unplugged (while things were being recorded) to use the box.

That is a major problem.


----------



## nooneuknow

nyjklein said:


> Yes, more than amusing. In a major Internet outage caused by a natural disaster or cyber attack, I think our TiVos losing some functionality will be the least of our worries.
> 
> Jeff


A natural disaster hundreds of miles away, or far more away, could easily only affect your internet, which is life-support for a Roamio, as only this sustained outage across the country, just being a failure on TiVo's end, revealed to a great many, for the very first time, ever.

Cyber Attacks are going on all the time, sometimes do cause us to lose our connection to the internet, and/or interrupt internet traffic.

My beef is that the Roamio is a hybrid cloud DVR. If I had known this, I'd have lost interest, and not purchased any. Now we know why we can just slap in a blank drive up to 3TB, and it will run guided setup, and work.

Some things about empty partitions that were analyzed in the Roamio HDD Upgrade thread, now make sense why they stay empty. The data that used to be there stays "in the cloud", and vulnerable to being inaccessible, under more conditions than I have any energy left to list, after being a self-volunteer to monitor this outage, from beginning to end.

Until this, many, if not most, that know, or care about, what typically goes on in a TiVo, made an incorrect assumption that the data not on the drive was being written to internal flash memory. Apparently, this was only partially correct.


----------



## mburnno

chiguy50 said:


> On a related note, my wife forgot to take out the garbage this morning and I'm thinking of kicking her to the curb.


Let me know how that works out for you. If it works you may be on to something


----------



## mburnno

nooneuknow said:


> My beef is that the Roamio is a hybrid cloud DVR. If I had known this, I'd have lost interest, and not purchased any.


Yes, this would of have been good for Tivo to tell people this but if they did would they have sold as many DVR's?


----------



## atmuscarella

hooper said:


> I couldn't use the Roamio at all. It kept going into blue circles when I tried to navigate anywhere. Everyone who had premieres remembers the whole stops responding issue. It was this but even worse. 1 remote press would lock up the box for 5 minutes or more. Then it just stopped responding completely.
> 
> I wouldn't care about the outage if this wasn't the case. I had to reboot with the ethernet cable unplugged (while things were being recorded) to use the box.
> 
> That is a major problem.


That is interesting I had no issues using my Roamio last night at all. Watched and deleted several podcast and several shows, went through all of the menus just to see what wasn't working, used the guide several times to read info on shows (wanted to make sure NCIS etc. were really re-runs) all while various shows were recording. No blue circles or slow downs at all. I am OTA only so maybe that makes a deference.


----------



## Beryl

jwbelcher said:


> Margret just sent out two tweets; 1) expects services restored by morning 2) agreed to look into adding a network status to tivo.com


When this all started, I requested the latter via help ticket and on their forum. It makes NO sense for them to let the rumor mill provide system status to their customers. I'm less concerned about an elongated outage than I am their lack of acknowledgement of that outage.


----------



## slowbiscuit

chrispitude said:


> Second, why in the WORLD is a DVR so dependent on an Internet connection? All that should matter is that a connection is successful at least often enough to keep the guide data supplied. Beyond that, all other data should be optional. What if my Internet provider (or ANY provider node between me and TiVo) is having its own issues unrelated to the TiVo servers? What about power outages, for folks with generators who can stay powered while the outside world is kaput?


Because, as noted upthread, Tivo is apparently sending certain actions in realtime to their servers, for their own analytics, that they then sell to others interested in what we're doing (big surprise). Or it's the usual case with them where the code was outsourced to chimps that weren't fed enough bananas.

The latter seems more likely when you can't cancel or schedule recordings IMO.


----------



## cherry ghost

Dan203 said:


> Ok this is stupid! You can't even cancel a recording because of this?


Yes you can, through the Guide


----------



## rainwater

slowbiscuit said:


> Because, as noted upthread, Tivo is apparently sending certain actions in realtime to their servers, for their own analytics, that they then sell to others interested in what we're doing (big surprise).


That is highly doubtful to be the reason for not being able to cancel recordings. Especially considering you can cancel them from live tv. It is obviously just an error in implementation of the HD UI.


----------



## djwilso

Margret says it should be fixed (for now):


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/408257641018699777


----------



## lessd

djwilso said:


> Margret says it should be fixed (for now):
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/408257641018699777


I have a new Roamio + first setup and it just started downloading the update, would not do that last night so TiVo servers now may be working.


----------



## jwbelcher

djwilso said:


> Margret says it should be fixed (for now):
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/408257641018699777


In the firm I work for there are many partners that would NEVER accept blame or offer an apology for a failure. I really appreciate Margret's transparency. Honestly, without her involvement, I would have a different opinion on keeping this box.


----------



## unclespam

nooneuknow said:


> A natural disaster hundreds of miles away, or far more away, could easily only affect your internet, which is life-support for a Roamio, as only this sustained outage across the country, just being a failure on TiVo's end, revealed to a great many, for the very first time, ever.
> 
> Cyber Attacks are going on all the time, sometimes do cause us to lose our connection to the internet, and/or interrupt internet traffic.
> 
> My beef is that the Roamio is a hybrid cloud DVR. If I had known this, I'd have lost interest, and not purchased any. Now we know why we can just slap in a blank drive up to 3TB, and it will run guided setup, and work.
> 
> Some things about empty partitions that were analyzed in the Roamio HDD Upgrade thread, now make sense why they stay empty. The data that used to be there stays "in the cloud", and vulnerable to being inaccessible, under more conditions than I have any energy left to list, after being a self-volunteer to monitor this outage, from beginning to end.
> 
> Until this, many, if not most, that know, or care about, what typically goes on in a TiVo, made an incorrect assumption that the data not on the drive was being written to internal flash memory. Apparently, this was only partially correct.


Hey Guy...I just tried to PM you to buy one of your boxes, but since my post count is below 10, I can't do that....so would you PM me so we can communicate?

Many thanks!


----------



## Time_Lord

jwbelcher said:


> In the firm I work for there are many partners that would NEVER accept blame or offer an apology for a failure. I really appreciate Margret's transparency. Honestly, without her involvement, I would have a different opinion on keeping this box.


What transparency? All she said is that the problem should be resolved and sorry it broke.

Transparency would be to give an overview of what happened, why it happened and some sort of update while the problem was occurring.

-TL


----------



## unclespam

Greetings All:

I have been a stalker on here until now, so I'll give my two cents to get my post count up.

I had the C133 error last night and came here to make sure that I wasn't alone. My Tivo Mini DID work through the outage, though in a limited way just like my Premier.

I have had two forced, successful full-cycle network connections to Tivo.

Interestingly, the latest episode of Sons of Anarchy showed up on the Tivo as Not Available was available on Amazon Video, so I purchased it there. That was about an hour ago. As of right now, it still hasn't started downloading on the Tivo (any advice on forcing the download would be most welcome!)

All other functionality seems to be back.

To all who have posted here with updates, thank you for your contributions. I am sure there are thousands of folks like me who benefit from it and stay under the radar.


----------



## pgoelz

djwilso said:


> Margret says it should be fixed (for now):
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/408257641018699777


Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues? Good grief, a simple post IN THIS THREAD from Tivo last night would have made a lot of us a lot more willing to simply sit back and wait for it to be fixed. ESPECIALLY when up until last night, if you called about a C133 error, it was blamed on your local LAN, and NEVER accepted as a Tivo issue.... even in the face of overwhelming evidence that it was NOT a LAN issue.

We paid for the device, and we pay monthly for service. For that monthly service fee, I think Tivo owes us a bit more transparency than we have seen to date. Unless we have a Twitter account, apparently.

Or is this forum simply not the place for status and / or dialog with Tivo?

Paul


----------



## unclespam

pgoelz said:


> Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues? Good grief, a simple post IN THIS THREAD from Tivo last night would have made a lot of us a lot more willing to simply sit back and wait for it to be fixed. ESPECIALLY when up until last night, if you called about a C133 error, it was blamed on your local LAN, and NEVER accepted as a Tivo issue.
> 
> We paid for the device, and we pay monthly for service. For that monthly service fee, I think Tivo owes us a bit more transparency than we have seen to date. Unless we have a Twitter account, apparently.
> 
> Or is this forum simply not the place for status and / or dialog with Tivo?
> 
> Paul


Good Point, Paul! My first instinct was to check the Tivo website (which is silent on the issue) then come to the forums where I found this. It didn't even occur to me to go to Twitter, although I have done that for Netflix and Slingbox issues.


----------



## rgr

jwbelcher said:


> In the firm I work for there are many partners that would NEVER accept blame or offer an apology for a failure. I really appreciate Margret's transparency. Honestly, without her involvement, I would have a different opinion on keeping this box.


While I appreciate TiVoMargret's willingness to keep us updated on the situation and also to express sorrow and regret, as John Wayne's Chance character in Rio Bravo said, "Sorry don't get it done, Dude."

I sure hope she posts a post-mortem on the situation and gives us some assurance that the problem is fixed, while also addressing the lack of any fail-over provisions in the software. Internet access can go down for many reasons and to allow your flagship product to have so many functions completely reliant on it is a huge, huge mistake.

At a minimum, I'd hope they open up the SDUI mode, if indeed it can be made available on the Roamio.


----------



## NYHeel

atmuscarella said:


> I have watch the posts about TiVo's server outage with some amusement.
> 
> Yes we lost some functionality for a few hours. I understand that for some people it was a pain and if you actually needed/wanted some of the functionality that was disabled, I can understand being unhappy. But honestly I watch the same shows I was going to watch and my Roamio recorded the same shows it was supposed to without issue which is the primary function of a DVR. I looked this morning and it appears my Podcasts downloaded last night like usual and everything appears to be back to normal.
> 
> I have had my ISP be down for much longer periods which results in the same issues with my TiVos plus significantly disrupts me in many more ways.


I have to agree with you here. It was annoying as I wanted to download a show to my ipad which I couldn't do. But it really wasn't so bad. I was able to watch shows, record new ones and check the to do list. The box was noticeably slower and I did get a few blue circles but it wasn't the end of the world.

Honestly, what worries me most is that we've now had 2 or 3 of these server down moments in the last few weeks. I'm ok with one but they need to figure this out to make sure it doesn't happen more than about once or twice a year at most.


----------



## jwbelcher

Time_Lord said:


> What transparency? All she said is that the problem should be resolved and sorry it broke.
> 
> Transparency would be to give an overview of what happened, why it happened and some sort of update while the problem was occurring.
> 
> -TL


Its not only on this occasion, just read the posts here. If you looked at other service providers, do they have an executive acknowledge outages? No. Anyway, does it make a difference knowing that a server crashed or there was a network outage? In the end its the same result.

Being transparent means being willing to accept blame and providing insight that the issues are being worked.


----------



## unclespam

I agree that this situation was NOT handled with the appropriate level of transparency. Going forward, there should be a "Service Status" box on the TiVo homepage that would have saved us, collectively, several hundred hours of screwing around, independently trying to solve a problem that we (now know) have no control over!

Hear this Tivo?


----------



## Goober96

pgoelz said:


> Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues? Good grief, a simple post IN THIS THREAD from Tivo last night would have made a lot of us a lot more willing to simply sit back and wait for it to be fixed. ESPECIALLY when up until last night, if you called about a C133 error, it was blamed on your local LAN, and NEVER accepted as a Tivo issue.... even in the face of overwhelming evidence that it was NOT a LAN issue. We paid for the device, and we pay monthly for service. For that monthly service fee, I think Tivo owes us a bit more transparency than we have seen to date. Unless we have a Twitter account, apparently. Or is this forum simply not the place for status and / or dialog with Tivo? Paul


What about the people who don't read this forum but have Twitter? They could say the exact opposite thing. This forum is not an official TiVo help mechanism.


----------



## rgr

unclespam said:


> I agree that this situation was NOT handled with the appropriate level of transparency. Going forward, there should be a "Service Status" box on the TiVo homepage that would have saved us, collectively, several hundred hours of screwing around, independently trying to solve a problem that we (now know) have no control over!
> 
> Hear this Tivo?


Such a "Service Status" notification on tivo.com would surely be helpful when the connection issue is on the TiVo side.

BUT, the real issue as far as I'm concerned is the semi-brick nature of the Roamio when service IS disrupted (whether on the TiVo side or a local outage).

Had TiVo done a better job addressing that as the issue, then having a service disruption would not have been the big problem it was.


----------



## DeltaOne

pgoelz said:


> Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues?


I'm no Twitter fan and don't have an account there, but it's easy to follow Margaret on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/tivodesign

And there was info here too:

https://www.facebook.com/TiVo

I have both bookmarked and check them occasionally.


----------



## unclespam

Goober96 said:


> What about the people who don't read this forum but have Twitter? They could say the exact opposite thing. This forum is not an official TiVo help mechanism.


This undergirds my point that Tivo needs a service status box that is permanently on their home page. No doubt it would have saved all of us collectively at least hundreds of hours of aggravation trying to solve a problem that was ultimately not something we could have fixed!


----------



## unclespam

DeltaOne said:


> I'm no Twitter fan and don't have an account there, but it's easy to follow Margaret on Twitter:
> 
> https://twitter.com/tivodesign
> 
> And there was info here too:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/TiVo
> 
> I have both bookmarked and check them occasionally.


Wow, and I'm on FB all the time....it didn't occur to me to go there....I came to Tivo first! Again, if they had a service status box permanently on their home page, would have save a TON of time and frustration!


----------



## SlappyMcgee

I am just glad I have a Chromecast hooked up to my tv since I couldnt get Netflix to work ,on my roamio, last night ;P


----------



## jwbelcher

People shouldn't need to be screwing around with their home network and rebooting their boxes trying to rule out a local issue. As mentioned many times by nooneuknow that rebooting can cause GC issues that don't resolve easily. 

Honestly, the message on Tivo Central dashboard could make it clear that its a remote service issue and leave zero ambiguity. We're all asking that a status be put up on tivo.com as that site did not go down during this episode. Think if our boxes could also accessed tivo.com (and perhaps even pull down the network heath status), it could inform us appropriately without a vague C133 error.


----------



## bbrown9

When I see stuff like this, the first thing I do is come here to see if others are seeing it, too. If they are, I assume the problem is on the TiVo mothership and I don't bother doing anything with my own setup. No rebooting, no messing around with my home network,etc. I'll check to see if it's been reported to TiVo (checking the TiVo forums) and if it has, I just wait it out. 

Those of you who rebooted and tried connecting to the mothership, if you know others are seeing the problem, why do you think you can fix it on your end? 

While I agree a status box on the TiVo site would be a good idea to prevent the calls into customer support, I don't understand why so many people here spent so much time trying to debug it.


----------



## rainwater

jwbelcher said:


> Honestly, the message on Tivo Central dashboard could make it clear that its a remote service issue and leave zero ambiguity. We're all asking that a status be put up on tivo.com as that site did not go down during this episode. Think if our boxes could also accessed tivo.com (and perhaps even pull down the network heath status), it could inform us appropriately without a vague C133 error.


It doesn't make sense to build a status system into the box itself. That would just be more connections the box has to maintain and another point of failure. Plus, tivo.com is slow enough. I don't want a million TiVos simultaneously connecting to it.


----------



## jwbelcher

rainwater said:


> It doesn't make sense to build a status system into the box itself. That would just be more connections the box has to maintain and another point of failure. Plus, tivo.com is slow enough. I don't want a million TiVos simultaneously connecting to it.


You'd only use this when the normal services fail to connect. When the normal services / site goes down, you'd need another location to check health (self-diagnose). The call wouldn't screen-scrape by any means, that'd require the overhead of loading the full page at tivo.com, a simple servlet could do the job.


----------



## unclespam

jwbelcher said:


> People shouldn't need to be screwing around with their home network and rebooting their boxes trying to rule out a local issue. As mentioned many times by nooneuknow that rebooting can cause GC issues that don't resolve easily.
> 
> Honestly, the message on Tivo Central dashboard could make it clear that its a remote service issue and leave zero ambiguity. We're all asking that a status be put up on tivo.com as that site did not go down during this episode. Think if our boxes could also accessed tivo.com (and perhaps even pull down the network heath status), it could inform us appropriately without a vague C133 error.


Amen!


----------



## tomhorsley

So what we really need is some hackers to analyze the traffic back to the mothership and design a proxy we could put on our routers that pretends the TiVo service is alive when it actually isn't .


----------



## L David Matheny

chrispitude said:


> Second, why in the WORLD is a DVR so dependent on an Internet connection? All that should matter is that a connection is successful at least often enough to keep the guide data supplied. Beyond that, all other data should be optional. What if my Internet provider (or ANY provider node between me and TiVo) is having its own issues unrelated to the TiVo servers? What about power outages, for folks with generators who can stay powered while the outside world is kaput?


Amen! I've even commented in the past on how HDUI eye candy can be impacted by Internet or LAN problems, but SDUI users might not even notice unless the problem lasts for more than a week and the TiVo starts to run out of guide data. And of course local functions like starting and stopping recordings don't (or didn't anyway) involve the network.

I bought a Roamio on Black Friday, but now I'm thinking about returning it instead of activating it. Requiring network connectivity for even basic DVR functions is not only fantastically stupid design, it's also morally bankrupt to the point that I may have to reconsider being a TiVo user unless they fix this.


----------



## astrohip

nooneuknow said:


> How did I miss the thread that tells of the Roamios not even maintaining the most simple of DVR core functions, in the event that it doesn't have constant and contiguous infusions of life breathed into it via something as easily disrupted as internet service.





nooneuknow said:


> turns the Premiere into a brick with only basic DVR functionality, making the Premiere A BETTER PLATFORM, AND THE ROAMIO, WORST POSSIBLE ONE EVER DEVISED???


Over-dramatize much? 

Look, I have already chimed in on how arrogant it is on TiVo's part to design a system like this. But the reality is our DVRs did work. They recorded what they should have, and you could ADD new recordings. It was difficult to cancel a recording, and search was down, but _the most simple of DVR core functions_ (your words) were there.

Let's see how TiVo reacts to this. Perhaps some good will come from it, or they may just forget it happened. My response will depend on their response. But using CAPS and *bold underlines *really doesn't do much, except perhaps make the poster feel better.


----------



## lessd

astrohip said:


> Over-dramatize much?
> 
> Look, I have already chimed in on how arrogant it is on TiVo's part to design a system like this. But the reality is our DVRs did work. They recorded what they should have, and you could ADD new recordings. It was difficult to cancel a recording, and search was down, but _the most simple of DVR core functions_ (your words) were there.
> 
> Let's see how TiVo reacts to this. Perhaps some good will come from it, or they may just forget it happened. My response will depend on their response. But using CAPS and *bold underlines *really doesn't do much, except perhaps make the poster feel better.


I think we all now should understand that if TiVo went out of business it would not be that easy to just have some 3rd party provide guide data to keep out newer TiVos running, the TiVo server system is much more complex than I thought, so if Ads on the TiVo help keep TiVo in the black, stop complaining about them.


----------



## unclespam

L David Matheny said:


> Amen! I've even commented in the past on how HDUI eye candy can be impacted by Internet or LAN problems, but SDUI users might not even notice unless the problem lasts for more than a week and the TiVo starts to run out of guide data. And of course local functions like starting and stopping recordings don't (or didn't anyway) involve the network.
> 
> I bought a Roamio on Black Friday, but now I'm thinking about returning it instead of activating it. Requiring network connectivity for even basic DVR functions is not only fantastically stupid design, it's also morally bankrupt to the point that I may have to reconsider being a TiVo user unless they fix this.


I'm an early adopter, but a cheap early adopter! I've been mulling the purchase of a Roameo for the anywhere streaming capability....but at this point will likely keep my Premier XL and add the streaming box to that. I think that if I were in your position, I would do exactly what you're contemplating.


----------



## slowbiscuit

astrohip said:


> Look, I have already chimed in on how arrogant it is on TiVo's part to design a system like this. But the reality is our DVRs did work. They recorded what they should have, and you could ADD new recordings. It was difficult to cancel a recording, and search was down, but _the most simple of DVR core functions_ (your words) were there.


Simple? Sure, you could play and delete stuff, and live TV worked. But disabling the ability to search for shows already in the guide, or show upcoming eps, or schedule SPs, or use almost all of the network apps, or even something as simple as cancelling an upcoming in the ToDo List? None of which should have anything to do with whether they can spam you with the discovery bar etc.?

Unacceptable. Good thing we don't see this error all that much or the pitchforks would be coming a lot harder.


----------



## pgoelz

bbrown9 said:


> Those of you who rebooted and tried connecting to the mothership, if you know others are seeing the problem, why do you think you can fix it on your end?
> 
> While I agree a status box on the TiVo site would be a good idea to prevent the calls into customer support, I don't understand why so many people here spent so much time trying to debug it.


It is very simple. Last night Tivo put a recorded message on the support phone number acknowledging the C133 issue, the fact that it was on their end and that they were working on it. To my knowledge, that was a first. Before that, whenever anyone called to report a C133 error the Tivo support personnel ALWAYS told us to reboot the Roamio as well as everything else in the network. Always. They NEVER even IMPLIED that it MIGHT be on their end. I went through several calls rebooting the modem and router but I refused to reboot the Roamio. I also refused to permanently open the port range that they also insisted was REQUIRED to fix a C133.

So if you are wondering why people keep assuming that something they do can fix a C133, that is why. The "official" support channel was telling us to, even though there was some indication that it was on their end.

I have to assume that Margaret Schmidt reads this forum and this thread. It is a pity she doesn't participate to the same extent that she participates on Twitter. This would seem to be a far better and more learned place to pass on knowledge. And I REALLY don't want to have to open a Twitter account.

Paul


----------



## unclespam

rgr said:


> Such a "Service Status" notification on tivo.com would surely be helpful when the connection issue is on the TiVo side.
> 
> BUT, the real issue as far as I'm concerned is the semi-brick nature of the Roamio when service IS disrupted (whether on the TiVo side or a local outage).
> 
> Had TiVo done a better job addressing that as the issue, then having a service disruption would not have been the big problem it was.


The word "brick" in connection with the Roamio is enough to make me want to stay away from it....I don't care what prefix is in front of it. You sold me on keeping with my Premier! many thanks!


----------



## rainwater

jwbelcher said:


> You'd only use this when the normal services fail to connect. When the normal services / site goes down, you'd need another location to check health (self-diagnose). The call wouldn't screen-scrape by any means, that'd require the overhead of loading the full page at tivo.com, a simple servlet could do the job.


That is adding complexity to an already complex system. What TiVo needs is a status page on their website and the TiVo to show the link to that page in the error message. I would rather do that and spend more resources making the UI work better without an active connection than add another complex status check system on top of the TiVo code base.


----------



## atmuscarella

unclespam said:


> The word "brick" in connection with the Roamio is enough to make me want to stay away from it....I don't care what prefix is in front of it. You sold me on keeping with my Premier! many thanks!


Nothing wrong with keeping your Premiere but anyone telling you that the Roamio or Premiere performed significantly different during this outage is full of it. Pretty much what didn't work on the Roamio didn't work on the Premiere, and the basic DVR functions worked on both of them.


----------



## Loach

atmuscarella said:


> Nothing wrong with keeping your Premiere but anyone telling you that the Roamio or Premiere performed significantly different during this outage is full of it. Pretty much what didn't work on the Roamio didn't work on the Premiere, and the basic DVR functions worked on both of them.


Good point. I had the C133 error on my Premiere last night as well. Can anyone outline specifically what, if anything, that Premieres could do that Roamios couldn't during the outage? It's an honest question - perhaps there are some items and I just haven't been able to identify them.


----------



## unclespam

atmuscarella said:


> Nothing wrong with keeping your Premiere but anyone telling you that the Roamio or Premiere performed significantly different during this outage is full of it. Pretty much what didn't work on the Roamio didn't work on the Premiere, and the basic DVR functions worked on both of them.


I really was only going to UG to the Roamio for the OOH streaming capability. I have a Sling Solo that just died and UG to either the Roamio or getting the Tivo Stream for my current Premier seemed easier than busting out my soldering iron to fix the capacitor that blew on the Sling. However as I skim the forums here and see that the Tivo Stream won't stream programs that have the CP flag set, which would kill anything airing on the premium channels, I think I might just have to fix the Sling after all.


----------



## Dan203

cherry ghost said:


> Yes you can, through the Guide


I tried that, didn't work. It popped up the same error I got when I tried to cancel via the To Do List. (I use the TiVo style guide, not the grid, if that matters)

This has got to be one of the stupidest limitations I ran into. Why would it ever need to talk to the server to cancel a recording? I was able to schedule a recording from the guide, but when I tried to cancel the same recording (realized it was a repeat) it wouldn't let me. That is really lame.


----------



## wmcbrine

Loach said:


> Can anyone outline specifically what, if anything, that Premieres could do that Roamios couldn't during the outage?


Well, you can switch them to SDUI mode. I did that last time, and was able to do "Search by Title", and schedule a recording, while I couldn't search at all in HDUI mode. I didn't test for other functions.


----------



## Dan203

crxssi said:


> Dan, I posted about that yesterday, many hours ago... and several times!!! Wake up!!


I missed it, sorry. But I think we both agree that is one of the dumbest limitations to be exposed by this whole mess. Why the hell would it need to contact the server to delete a recording from the To Do List?  :down:


----------



## Dan203

wmcbrine said:


> Well, you can switch them to SDUI mode. I did that last time, and was able to do "Search by Title", and schedule a recording, while I couldn't search at all in HDUI mode. I didn't test for other functions.


The SDUI was entirely based around the data stored on the machine. It had no reliance on the TiVo servers and was likely fully functional with the possible exception of the web based TiVo Search.


----------



## Loach

wmcbrine said:


> Well, you can switch them to SDUI mode. I did that last time, and was able to do "Search by Title", and schedule a recording, while I couldn't search at all in HDUI mode. I didn't test for other functions.


OK, thanks. Having only been with Tivo less than a year, I set up my Premiere with the HDUI guide and have honestly never bothered to mess with the SDUI guide, so never would have thought of that.


----------



## cherry ghost

Dan203 said:


> I tried that, didn't work. It popped up the same error I got when I tried to cancel via the To Do List. (I use the TiVo style guide, not the grid, if that matters)


I just tested it in both Guide styles by disconnecting the internet to the TiVo and it worked.

Go to show in the guide, press record, options are "Continue recording" or "Stop recording"


----------



## hfcsyrup

ya-hoo! i think the value of my P4 just went up some! thanks sdui!
but seriously, why is such a big deal being made of this? for the past 3 months that i've had my P4 the discovery bar and other stuff has some error message maybe once a week.


----------



## cherry ghost

pgoelz said:


> Before that, whenever anyone called to report a C133 error the Tivo support personnel ALWAYS told us to reboot the Roamio as well as everything else in the network. Always. They NEVER even IMPLIED that it MIGHT be on their end.
> 
> Paul


Not true


----------



## notyou

I hate how Twitter and even Facebook have become defacto customer complaint portals when they are poorly designed for that function. (Workflow? Notifications? Follow-up? Shared queues?)

That being said, as far as I know TiVo did not even use their own support infrastructure to announce the status.

Is their KB software so static that they can't add a banner to the top or at least update the C133 troubleshooting guide to mention that IT IS ON THEIR END, so stop restarting your TiVos, routers and cable modems?

And how bad is their internal communication or policies that they have CS agents walking users through the busy work of troubleshooting local issues when somebody in Ops *certainly knows* that is a waste of time?

And why would it be so awful to either 1) authorize high level staff in Ops to post emergency status updates to official Facebook/Twitter accounts or 2) have the PR staff be on-call to post those updates in case of a catastrophic failure like this.

Think of how much better it would've been if there was a note on Tivo.com, support.tivo.com, forums.tivo.com referenced from Twitter/Facebook that said:



> We are currently experiencing problems with our servers that support the TiVo Premiere and Roamio recorders. Symptoms include:
> 
> * Error message: "Problem with the service (C133)"
> * Discovery bar at top not properly displaying
> * Problems connecting to Netflix, Hulu services.
> 
> Note that you can still use your TiVo recorder to watch live TV as well as any previously recorded programs. Additionally, scheduled recordings will proceed as usual.
> 
> We apologize for the inconvience, but at this point we expect things to be resolved tomorrow morning. Thank you for your patience.


Instead we got:

* 2 posts on Twitter from @TiVo from 5:08PM and 8:52PM (apparently some people got Direct Messages back)
* 1 post on Facebook from 7:40PM
* NO subsequent follow-up in either of those channels (I refuse to dig through comments to see if anyone from TiVo was ridiculous enough to respond there. That would be idiocy.)
* STILL no mention of the outage via announcement banner on support.tivo.com or forums.tivo.com

* Angry users in the forums.tivo.com and here on tivocommunity.com, comparing notes, threatening to drop service, return devices, and generally pissed off.
* Updates from @tivodesign, which while useful are not even close to an official support channel. (How would anybody know to look for Margret's Twitter feed?)

How can anyone in the TiVo PR, Ops or Executive organization not see this as something that needs to be addressed *today*, via a similar message above, explaining what went wrong and more importantly, how they will be addressing similar issues like it in the future?


----------



## Dan203

cherry ghost said:


> I just tested it in both Guide styles by disconnecting the internet to the TiVo and it worked.
> 
> Go to show in the guide, press record, options are "Continue recording" or "Stop recording"


I wasn't trying to stop a recording in progress, I was trying to unschedule a recording that wasn't happening until later in the evening.


----------



## Dan203

hfcsyrup said:


> ya-hoo! i think the value of my P4 just went up some! thanks sdui!
> but seriously, why is such a big deal being made of this? for the past 3 months that i've had my P4 the discovery bar and other stuff has some error message maybe once a week.


This was the first prolonged failure of the system ever that I'm aware of. I think this is the first time many people, including myself, really realized how crippled the box is without a connection to the service.


----------



## bareyb

unclespam said:


> The word "brick" in connection with the Roamio is enough to make me want to stay away from it....I don't care what prefix is in front of it. You sold me on keeping with my Premier! many thanks!


The outage affected my Premiere Elite too. I think any TiVo with an active HD GUI is going to be affected. The problem hasn't bothered me enough to switch back to the SDUI.


----------



## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> I missed it, sorry. But I think we both agree that is one of the dumbest limitations to be exposed by this whole mess. Why the hell would it need to contact the server to delete a recording from the To Do List?  :down:


 Clearly that is messed up. FYI I was able to bring up To Do List and cancel an upcoming recording yesterday using kmttg during the outage, which makes it even stranger why the HDUI cannot...

EDIT: I didn't try it, but my guess is you should be able to bring up To Do List from a Mini and cancel upcoming recording as that is the same RPC mechanism kmttg is using.


----------



## noah82

Of course this outage happened right when I was setting up my new Roamio Plus. I was going crazy thinking that I got a DOA device until I came here.

I always have the best timing


----------



## morac

For what it's worth. The last time the TiVo servers went down (was sometime last year), I recommended having a server status on their web site. As noticed, this was never implemented.

At least last time, the entire tivo.com web site was down which gave people some clue that the problem was on TiVo's end.


----------



## eric102

noah82 said:


> Of course this outage happened right when I was setting up my new Roamio Plus. I was going crazy thinking that I got a DOA device until I came here.
> 
> I always have the best timing


So your the one that broke the servers


----------



## cherry ghost

Dan203 said:


> I wasn't trying to stop a recording in progress, I was trying to unschedule a recording that wasn't happening until later in the evening.


You can do that too.

Find show in guide, press select, season pass & other options, recording options, cancel this show, yes cancel this recording

The C133 error comes up, but the recording is canceled


----------



## noah82

eric102 said:


> So your the one that broke the servers


Yup, it was me


----------



## Dan203

cherry ghost said:


> You can do that too.
> 
> Find show in guide, press select, season pass & other options, recording options, cancel this show, yes cancel this recording
> 
> The C133 error comes up, but the recording is canceled


Didn't work for me. I was scheduling the show from the guide so the first thing I tried was canceling from the guide. I got the error so I tried doing it from the To Do List and got the error again. I then tried the iPad app but couldn't even get that to load.


----------



## cherry ghost

Dan203 said:


> Didn't work for me. I was scheduling the show from the guide so the first thing I tried was canceling from the guide. I got the error so I tried doing it from the To Do List and got the error again. I then tried the iPad app but couldn't even get that to load.


In the order I posted, or did you do

Season pass & other options --> cancel this recording

That doesn't work


----------



## Dan203

cherry ghost said:


> In the order I posted, or did you do
> 
> Season pass & other options --> cancel this recording
> 
> That doesn't work


I might have done it that way. But why does one work and the other not? Still a stupid problem that shouldn't exist.


----------



## crxssi

pgoelz said:


> Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues?


Nope, you are not alone. I don't "do" Twitter or Facebook (or Google Plus). I would much prefer to see a status message on their web home page. That is the very first place I would go/look.


----------



## bareyb

So, is everyone working now? Mine seems to be fixed. Hopefully it stays that way.


----------



## CrispyCritter

slowbiscuit said:


> Simple? Sure, you could play and delete stuff, and live TV worked. But disabling the ability to search for shows already in the guide, or show upcoming eps, or schedule SPs, or use almost all of the network apps, or even something as simple as cancelling an upcoming in the ToDo List? None of which should have anything to do with whether they can spam you with the discovery bar etc.?


Many of those, for better or worse (and it was worse during this episode) actually do affect the Discovery Bar, or do link to internet supplied info. The TiVo attempts to customize the DB for the particular show being looked at, or even possibly a show being deleted (I didn't check this when I looked a while back). In the process, it sends out multiple DNS requests as well as exchanging info with the TiVo servers. There is an amazing amount of info going back and forth with button presses in the HDUI.


----------



## moyekj

crxssi said:


> Nope, you are not alone. I don't "do" Twitter or Facebook (or Google Plus). I would much prefer to see a status message on their web home page. That is the very first place I would go/look.


 Certainly not alone. Twitter and Facebook are blocked by my router as I want nothing to do with those sites and don't want anybody using my home network to have access to them either. It's pretty amazing how many web pages I see my router "blocked" icon showing up in.


----------



## wco81

Hey, who knew that when we bought our Roamio's we were getting "cloud" DVRs?

At one point, it was working so I started downloading some recordings and then it went down again which caused the downloads to stall.

Then this morning, the service was back up and I was able to complete the downloads, though the odd thing is, the file size changed from 305 MB for 30-minute recordings at medium settings to over 500 MB. Initially, when it came back it was showing the download was going to be over 1000 MB and then it adjusted down


----------



## Dan203

The iPad downloads seem to use VBR encoding now, so the sizes are just guesses. The less movement a show has the more likely it is that it'll end up significantly smaller then the estimate.


----------



## pgoelz

pgoelz said:


> Before that, whenever anyone called to report a C133 error the Tivo support personnel ALWAYS told us to reboot the Roamio as well as everything else in the network. Always. They NEVER even IMPLIED that it MIGHT be on their end.
> 
> Paul





cherry ghost said:


> Not true


Don't mean to argue with you.... yes, the word "anyone" above might have been a bit of an exaggeration but this IS true in my case.

I have called support three times about C133 error messages. On each call I was told to reboot the router, modem and finally the Roamio. On each call, I was also told something contradictory about how to DEFINITELY fix the issue. One call, I was told I had to permanently open some ports. The next call, I was told that applied to WiFi connections only (I am wired). The next call, I was told again to open ports because that DID apply to wired connections. On each call, during the troubleshooting process I WAS told to reboot the Roamio. I rebooted the modem and router (which did not resolve the C133) but I stopped short of rebooting the Roamio. At no point did any of this resolve the issue.

On each call, I raised the possibility that the issue was on Tivo's end because everything else on my LAN was functioning perfectly before, during and after a C133 and I had a 29Mb/S connection with good pings to the west coast.

On each call, I was told it definitely was NOT on Tivo's end. Which did not inspire confidence that they were looking in the right place.... if at all.

Again, don't mean to argue about it. Just stating my experiences with Tivo support. Now that it seems that Tivo is aware of the causes, I'm a lot less concerned.... looks like it will get fixed. When Tivo was blaming my LAN, I had my doubts.

Paul


----------



## nooneuknow

L David Matheny said:


> Amen! I've even commented in the past on how HDUI eye candy can be impacted by Internet or LAN problems, but SDUI users might not even notice unless the problem lasts for more than a week and the TiVo starts to run out of guide data. And of course local functions like starting and stopping recordings don't (or didn't anyway) involve the network.
> 
> I bought a Roamio on Black Friday, but now I'm thinking about returning it instead of activating it. Requiring network connectivity for even basic DVR functions is not only fantastically stupid design, it's also morally bankrupt to the point that I may have to reconsider being a TiVo user unless they fix this.


Couldn't say it any better myself, on the points you have brought up.

I'm also heavily reconsidering. Part of me wants all Roamios out of my sight, and to return them. Part of me hopes TiVo can still put the databases back on the individual units, and eliminate the threat of being unable to access the infernal "cloud". I'm no fan of any cloud services. If I didn't even know about TiVo, or they didn't exist, I'd still be no fan of cloud services.

To each their own. But, cloud data storage will never be a part of anything I do that I have a choice in, only what I don't have a choice in, or as I feel with the TiVo Roamio, I was duped into, by deceptive practices. Now the truth has been revealed.


----------



## nooneuknow

Loach said:


> Good point. I had the C133 error on my Premiere last night as well. Can anyone outline specifically what, if anything, that Premieres could do that Roamios couldn't during the outage? It's an honest question - perhaps there are some items and I just haven't been able to identify them.


How about being able to switch to SDUI mode, and essentially then having a TiVo HD UI not displaying anything is wrong, like a TiVo HD, and having the databases still residing on the TiVo Premiere hard drive, not just in the cloud, which went down, and whatever amount of the databases can fit in memory?

I will note that the OTT internet apps did not work, if you tried them, but neither would they on a real TiVo HD. TiVo forces those apps to involve the TiVo service (which I'm not alone in not liking, and has been a sore spot going way, way back for a great many people on here).

I recall a mention of either a Premiere or Roamio owner saying the direct ways in didn't work for them, but they got in using "watch now from Netflix" from a program's information. I'm leaning towards that had to have been a Premiere, or it might have been an not-rebooted Roamio, that still had that info in memory.

I'm sure there's more. I'd just like to get fully caught up and not spend a day getting there.


----------



## bareyb

Meh. Im not ready to dump my TiVo just yet. I've had little blips where I lost the stuff at the of the NPL, but this is the first time this has really been disruptive for me. If it becomes a regular occurrence or if it impacts the core functionality of my DVR then I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I have to believe that TiVo's top priority will be to never let this happen again. After all, as you say, the cat is now out of the bag. I hope it doesn't cause them too much churn. I really need them to stay in business. The one bright side of all this is that they are probably making _BANK_ selling our viewing stats.


----------



## nooneuknow

hfcsyrup said:


> ya-hoo! i think the value of my P4 just went up some! thanks sdui!
> but seriously, why is such a big deal being made of this? for the past 3 months that i've had my P4 the discovery bar and other stuff has some error message maybe once a week.


Because not everybody is running a Premiere?

Because it affects Roamios differently?

Then again, if you really have to ask, you must not have read more than a handful of "after the outage ended" posts when you came in and posted this.


----------



## nooneuknow

wco81 said:


> Hey, who knew that when we bought our Roamio's we were getting "cloud" DVRs? <snip>


Not me. Apparently close to nobody. If I had known, I'd have never remotely considered the Roamio, period.

Although, it's better to call it a hybrid cloud DVR, since your shows do, in fact, record to your hard drive, and not beam to the cloud to be stored there.

It's the databases that got moved to the cloud, and no longer on the drive. It seems many assumed the databases were now in solid-state memory, along with the operating system, which now resides there.


----------



## nooneuknow

It seems that this experience has added a whole new boatload of people to either join, or express they are part of, the "Whatever it takes to keep TiVo in business, it's OK with me" crowd.

That only pushes me further away from being a TiVo owner/user, who has convinced friends and family to use TiVo, and has put in a lot of effort to keep them with TiVo.

I'm already pushed beyond the point of continuing on to always be the first level of tech support for those I've convinced should buy the product and pay for the service. Let them all get cable-provided DVRs. Then I'm off the hook, and I don't get blamed for it if somebody misses an episode, or the last 10 minutes, of their favorite soap opera. I'm done with that! It's not worth it. Maybe that will help make me be a more pleasant person, once I'm off the hook.

Shame on TiVo for focusing on litigation in the youth of, and missing what should have been the prime of, the Premiere, by years!

Shame on TiVo for stealthily slinging these cloud-hybrid Roamios, without giving us the info we needed to make an informed buying decision!

Shame on TiVo for sticking steadfastly to their policy of denying that TiVo service outages are ever their issue, instead making us reboot everything three times, and reconfigure our whole network, then blaming anything non-TiVo they can, until there's no way around denying it any more.

The truth is out there. The cat is out of the bag. How much more do those who have gone to the Roamio side, still not know, because it still hasn't been exposed, isn't out of the bag, and isn't out there?

I'm exhausted. Not from anything other than the conflict I feel over bailing out of giving business to the very company the holds all the important patents.

Maybe (I'm only saying maybe), we should let TiVo die. Their patents will be bought by other companies, and licensed to others, who will then become better companies. That sounds like the birth of true competition in the DVR market, finally. Maybe I'm just too exhausted, and too conflicted, to see anything but the better future I was hoping the Roamio would bring for TiVo and for me, as being anything more than an elaborate, deliberate, illusion.


----------



## cherry ghost

nooneuknow said:


> I recall a mention of either a Premiere or Roamio owner saying the direct ways in didn't work for them, but they got in using "watch now from Netflix" from a program's information. I'm leaning towards that had to have been a Premiere, or it might have been an not-rebooted Roamio, that still had that info in memory.


It was a Roamio



moyekj said:


> FYI while the Netflix access from My Shows is not accessible it does still work from "Find TV, Movies, & Videos". Watching Netflix right now without issues on my Roamio Pro with C133 errors still present.


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> It's the databases that got moved to the cloud, and no longer on the drive. It seems many assumed the databases were now in solid-state memory, along with the operating system, which now resides there.


The Roamio still has local databases that it uses for internally scheduling season passes and the like. Only certain user facing interaction like searching for programs and browsing collections was moved to the cloud, but it's been like that since the Premiere was released. It used to be a lot worse. When the Premiere first came out, if it lost a connection to the Internet or TiVo service, it wasn't possible to playback local recordings as the My Show screen wouldn't work correctly.

In this case though, the TiVo service was in an odd state so the box was getting weird results back. That's why things that should work were not working. You can test this by pulling the network cable on the Roamio and seeing that it does work okay with the exception of items that get disabled like what to watch and searching and the like.

On a side note, every TiVo ever made, going back to the original model, won't work correctly if it can't download guide data, which it does every day. So complaining that the TiVo is network dependent is silly.


----------



## jonglee

I too have been C133 issues for the last week or so intermittently and tried to reboot everything. I IM'd Tivo yesterday, the support person looked up my device and said cryptically that the 'system was updated yesterday', and that it is fine today. And told me to force connection to the service per below, and now don't have that problem (at least for the night).

1) To manually initiate a connection to the TiVo service, go to TiVo Central
and select Messages & Settings > Settings > Network & Phone > Connect to the
TiVo service now. After any successful connection (whether manual or
automatic), the TiVo box will automatically attempt another connection within
the next 48 hours.


----------



## L David Matheny

morac said:


> The Roamio still has local databases that it uses for internally scheduling season passes and the like. Only certain user facing interaction like searching for programs and browsing collections was moved to the cloud, but it's been like that since the Premiere was released. It used to be a lot worse. When the Premiere first came out, if it lost a connection to the Internet or TiVo service, it wasn't possible to playback local recordings as the My Show screen wouldn't work correctly.
> 
> In this case though, the TiVo service was in an odd state so the box was getting weird results back. That's why things that should work were not working. You can test this by pulling the network cable on the Roamio and seeing that it does work okay with the exception of items that get disabled like what to watch and searching and the like.


Well, "odd states" can happen, and the TiVo should be programmed to handle them. But I do believe the cloud aspect of this has been overblown. To me a "cloud DVR" would be one which stores everything, including video data, on a remote server, a concept which is totally insane IMNSHO, no matter how cheap bandwidth becomes. And I doubt that TiVo is foolish enough to move essential data like the guide or the season passes to their servers. I suspect this mess was a consequence of sloppy programming that intermingled server dependencies with references to local databases, and I hope TiVo will fix their software to handle future network outages more gracefully.



morac said:


> On a side note, every TiVo ever made, going back to the original model, won't work correctly if it can't download guide data, which it does every day. So complaining that the TiVo is network dependent is silly.


That's a separate issue. Of course every DVR needs guide data, but even a TiVo that's been cut off from the Internet should still perform all its basic functions for nearly two weeks. All a user whose network is down should notice is that eye candy is missing and network-dependent searches, etc, are unavailable.


----------



## NYHeel

nooneuknow said:


> Shame on TiVo for stealthily slinging these cloud-hybrid Roamios, without giving us the info we needed to make an informed buying decision!


Come on, you know you're exaggerating. It's not a cloud DVR or a hybrid cloud DVR. All of the primary DVR functions still worked during the server downtime. It seems that Dan203 had some issues with cancelling recordings in the future but most if not all others were able to access the to do list and make changes.

I get it that the server being down was annoying. It slowed my box down and I did get an error once trying to get to the to do list (though every other time I got there fine). But I was able to watch recordings, set recordings, and record previously scheduled recordings. Those are the 3 primary most important functions of a DVR and you could add in watch live TV if you care about that. All of them were doable.

Listen, the Roamio isn't a perfect product and there are some annoying lingering bugs like the second manual recording popping up sometimes when you adjust the padding of a previously scheduled recording and the app overstating the space used by 33%. But overall the product does what they said it would and it does it fairly well.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Cancelling from the ToDo List did not work, I also tried it and was shocked to see that I couldn't. That and other stuff mentioned here are basic DVR functions and no way should they be tied to whether your internet connection or the Tivo service is up. Period, full stop. ANY DVR function around recordings, searching and scheduling from your local guide (including SPs), etc. should NOT be tied to internet or service availability, and if Tivo is that fully tied to the mothership then they have idiot programmers and/or managers.


----------



## nooneuknow

Guys, and gals:

Points taken on several matters. I do read and digest all viewpoints and opinions.

Unless we see a 2nd outage, like what happened, I feel I have said all I need to say (for now). So, no need to address my every post, as I'm done ranting, and so long as the TiVo service stays up, it should stay that way.

I just want everybody to understand that I actually DO read all posts, and not just jump in and start posting, until I have done so (when entering into a thread I haven't been active in yet).

While there are many posts I'd like to comment on, others have said what I'd say anyway.

While there are a few posts I'd like to reply to, because I disagree with them, I'm still going to try and keep the peace.
.


----------



## Dan203

slowbiscuit said:


> Cancelling from the ToDo List did not work, I also tried it and was shocked to see that I couldn't. That and other stuff mentioned here are basic DVR functions and no way should they be tied to whether your internet connection or the Tivo service is up. Period, full stop. ANY DVR function around recordings, searching and scheduling from your local guide (including SPs), etc. should NOT be tied to internet or service availability, and if Tivo is that fully tied to the mothership then they have idiot programmers and/or managers.


I agree. I never realized how dependent on the mother ship they were until now. It's a bit disconcerting. I understand search not working, although I'd prefer if it dropped down to a basic mode that only used local data, but all other basic DVR functions should work. Also I don't understand why the apps went down too. I know the old HME apps were server based, but the new ones are local and as long as the service itself is not down I don't know why a connection to TiVos servers is required. It like they assume that if they can't talk to TiVo's servers then the whole internet must be down. That's bad design.


----------



## nooneuknow

Just one addition to what I just posted:

While some are saying the Premieres are cloud-hybrid as well, and some disagree with me calling them that, I was able to run my Premieres in SDUI, and they behaved just like a TiVo HD, had more functionality in the SDUI, and everything was still running just as fast, even though the TiVo service was down.

The Roamio has no way to invoke any SDUI, which leaves you stuck in a UI that is continuously trying to access TiVo's cloud, which slows it down, as it tries to, but can't.

The Premiere gives you the ability to greatly reduce those realtime communication attempts, by means of the SDUI.

If the Roamio had that same fallback option, I'd have been less upset about what happens with the Roamio, in an outage, or when anything else inhibits the constant chatter between the Roamio and the cloud (or whatever you choose to call it).

I've been very careful to try to make sure I never say the Roamio is a "cloud DVR", as it is not. But I stand by my comments calling it a "cloud-hybrid", and have been telling those who just call it a "cloud DVR", that if they are going to say "cloud", without the "hybrid", it's not accurate. I do understand that some will not even accept the "cloud-hybrid" term, and they are entitled to their opinions and beliefs.


----------



## moyekj

The TiVo servers control the list of Apps that are made visible to a TSN. When you do a net connect that can change. My guess is that those that lost Apps (mine were still visible and I was using Netflix during outage) must have net connected during the outage and got a bad or empty list back. So while you don't need TiVo servers to actually run the some of the Apps, the TiVo servers still control the "links" you see.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Dan203 said:


> I agree. I never realized how dependent on the mother ship they were until now. It's a bit disconcerting. I understand search not working, although I'd prefer if it dropped down to a basic mode that only used local data, but all other basic DVR functions should work. Also I don't understand why the apps went down too. I know the old HME apps were server based, but the new ones are local and as long as the service itself is not down I don't know why a connection to TiVos servers is required. It like they assume that if they can't talk to TiVo's servers then the whole internet must be down. That's bad design.


Yep, that's what it looks like - bad design with no fallback mode, which I suspect is either due to them wanting to monetize everything we do on the boxes or that they have incompetent programmers (or managers) that don't understand or care about how to do this.

Again, the real issue here isn't the Tivo service uptime which has historically been excellent, it's the more common cases where the user's net connection could be down for an extended period for whatever reason. And for this reason alone, no Tivo should be reliant on talking to a server to do ANY local DVR function for as long as there is guide data available.

Period.


----------



## nooneuknow

Dan203 said:


> I agree. I never realized how dependent on the mother ship they were until now. It's a bit disconcerting. I understand search not working, although I'd prefer if it dropped down to a basic mode that only used local data, but all other basic DVR functions should work. Also I don't understand why the apps went down too. I know the old HME apps were server based, but the new ones are local and as long as the service itself is not down I don't know why a connection to TiVos servers is required. It like they assume that if they can't talk to TiVo's servers then the whole internet must be down. That's bad design.


The OTT apps have always been like that, going back to before the S3 platform (as others have brought up, as well).

It's just that this sustained outage we all had to endure, made it hard to not notice the fact that OTT apps require the TiVo Service to be working, for them to work (unless you didn't try using them for the duration of the service outage).

Until now, you'd have to try using the affected apps and features, during a momentary loss of communication to TiVos servers (which I now consider to be more of a cloud).

Otherwise, I hear ya, Dan. I agree with your posts 100%.


----------



## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> The OTT apps have always been like that, going back to before the S3 platform (as others have brought up, as well).


Back in the S3 days the apps were based on TiVo's HME scheme where the apps actually ran on the server and only the UI elements were run on the local box. This was TiVo's way of sandboxing and running OTT apps on underpowered hardware. With the Premiere they moved most of the OTT apps over local Flash based apps*, so they should be able to run without the need to talk to TiVos servers. But as moyekj TiVo's servers control which apps you're allowed to access, so this glitch seems to have screwed that aspect up causing people to lose access to apps.

* Some are now moving to HTML5, but they are still local and do not require a connection to TiVo's servers to function.


----------



## morac

In my case two of my boxes lost apps, but another did not. The apps worked on that box. The boxes that lost apps wouldn't get them back after the outage until I first went into the Find TV... menu and then forced a connecfion. The other way around did not work, so I guess the Find TV menu causes the app list to download, but the connection causes them to show up. My guess might be that forcing a call during the outage might have caused the apps to go MIA.


----------



## 21364guy

I'm new to Roamio after using multiple Series1's and, for the last 5 years, a TiVo HD. Obviously I've never experienced a problem like the C133 thing on any of the older boxes. The worst I ever had to deal with was a dead telephone port and a few failing drives. All I want TiVo to do is:

1. put the network/server status at some well-known location

2. modify the s/w so that the box is a little more functional (less brain-dead) in this type of situation

The basic issue is that TiVo is supposed to be a high-end product... they can't inflict this type of thing on users and expect folks to be happy with it continue buying the product and evangelize to others. Hopefully this is one poor case and unlikely to be repeated. But I'd like to hear from them that they understand it is unacceptable, and that there's a plan to address it.


----------



## ltxi

The amount of time and energy spent here agonizing over a simple, unfortunate server outage is either impressive or distressing.....not yet sure which.


----------



## TWinbrook46636

NYHeel said:


> Come on, you know you're exaggerating. It's not a cloud DVR or a hybrid cloud DVR. All of the primary DVR functions still worked during the server downtime. It seems that Dan203 had some issues with cancelling recordings in the future but most if not all others were able to access the to do list and make changes.


I actually was not able to cancel a recording that *was* in progress. It kept bringing up an error stating that an internet connection was required. Why on earth would that require one? Oh, as of an hour ago I was getting a C133 error again. Lasted about 30 minutes. I guess that's progress.


----------



## lessd

ltxi said:


> The amount of time and energy spent here agonizing over a simple, unfortunate server outage is either impressive or distressing.....not yet sure which.


I think it is the shock of what does not work on the Roamio when the network goes down, in the old days the network could go down for days and all would be well as the guide data goes out about 10 full days. With the Roamio the TiVo servers have much more control of your TiVo than we knew about.


----------



## CloudAtlas

nooneuknow said:


> Shame on TiVo ..
> 
> Shame on TiVo ...
> 
> Shame on TiVo ...
> 
> *I'm exhausted.* Not from anything other than the conflict I feel over bailing out of giving business to the very company the holds all the important patents.


You are exhausted because you work yourself up into a frenzy over nothing. You all feed off of each other with one post less factual than the next with the hidden agenda to get even with TiVo for the Premiere boxes. It's like watching Fox News.

And you are not bailing out TiVo by buying their box. It's not exactly a cash cow selling DVRs unless you count the $1 billion won in litigation.

As for competition TiVo is not the problem it's the monopoly that is the cable industry. I mean can you seriously think there can be competition when the industry gives us the CableCard? Where you are at the complete mercy of the cable companies to pair the CableCard they help invent?

Just search the NYTimes for David Pogue's problems with TiVo and CableCards over the years. Hint: the problem isn't TiVo.


----------



## MikePA1

ltxi said:


> The amount of time and energy spent here agonizing over a simple, unfortunate server outage is either impressive or distressing.....not yet sure which.


It's distressing, not the outage, but particularly the tomes which are technical navel gazing. Except for the few people who were setting up a new Roamio or decided to go through set up again, you could watch live tv, you could watch recordings, etc. IOW, zero impact.


----------



## slowbiscuit

lessd said:


> I think it is the shock of what does not work on the Roamio when the network goes down, in the old days the network could go down for days and all would be well as the guide data goes out about 10 full days. With the Roamio the TiVo servers have much more control of your TiVo than we knew about.


Exactly, it's really not so much about this Tivo service outage (or the much more common case of a person losing their net access), just that a lot of these issues could have been avoided with proper design. Hopefully Tivo will learn a lesson from this and implement some fallbacks.


----------



## nooneuknow

slowbiscuit said:


> Exactly, it's really not so much about this Tivo service outage (or the much more common case of a person losing their net access), just that a lot of these issues could have been avoided with proper design. Hopefully Tivo will learn a lesson from this and implement some fallbacks.


+1 :up:


----------



## nooneuknow

lessd said:


> I think it is the shock of what does not work on the Roamio when the network goes down, in the old days the network could go down for days and all would be well as the guide data goes out about 10 full days. With the Roamio the TiVo servers have much more control of your TiVo than we knew about.


+1 :up:


----------



## wmcbrine

MikePA1 said:


> Except for the few people who were setting up a new Roamio or decided to go through set up again, you could watch live tv, you could watch recordings, etc. IOW, zero impact.


Actually there was a significant impact on people who wanted to search for or schedule new recordings.


----------



## b_scott

had this on both tivos a couple times the past week.


----------



## nooneuknow

Dear forum members, thread subscribers, and so on: If you don't want to waste time on an off-topic post, I suggest you skip reading this post.



CloudAtlas said:


> You are exhausted because you work yourself up into a frenzy over nothing. You all feed off of each other with one post less factual than the next with the hidden agenda to get even with TiVo for the Premiere boxes. It's like watching Fox News.
> 
> And you are not bailing out TiVo by buying their box. It's not exactly a cash cow selling DVRs unless you count the $1 billion won in litigation.
> 
> As for competition TiVo is not the problem it's the monopoly that is the cable industry. I mean can you seriously think there can be competition when the industry gives us the CableCard? Where you are at the complete mercy of the cable companies to pair the CableCard they help invent?
> 
> Just search the NYTimes for David Pogue's problems with TiVo and CableCards over the years. Hint: the problem isn't TiVo.


Wow "You all...". Great way to make friends (nope, the opposite). You attack everybody in the whole thread and get zero responses (until now). I guess you made everybody's ignore list (except mine), and they don't see your enlightening posts.

"Hidden agendas" Pot meet kettle then (if I truly had, or have, a hidden agenda).

"CableCards" had nothing to do with the outage, whatsoever. But does show your own agenda. I don't like them either, but it is beyond anything I can do about it.

I'm not going to follow-up with your suggestion. CableCards are a PITA, but we do need them. Until CableLabs & the FCC change the game, we get what we get. Reading about somebody having major, and ongoing, issues with cablecards, has no value to me. They are what they are, and they certainly are not perfect.

"The problem isn't TiVo" - I'd bet every TiVo I own, against that, if there was no agenda. However, there clearly is.

The ONLY post of mine regarding cardcards, was an attempt to help somebody to understand that cablecards had/have nothing to do with this thread, especially the TiVo service outage, and they should give it some time to re-download the tables/mappings, before hounding their MSO. I tried to help somebody get their premium channels, in the best, and tested, way of letting the card have the time to download the table mappings.

Fox news: I choose to not watch Fox news. I have a very good hunch that rather than not watch Fox news, you make sure you do, so you can voice your own agendas, opinions, and tell them they are idiots.

I simply make sure that I never watch Fox news. You could do the same thing by clicking on my name, to the left and selecting ignore user, since half of your posts are stalk & snipe ones, directed at me (and I'm not alone in being on the receiving end of your brash commentary and critiques).

Back to cablecards, I know exactly how they ended up being what they are. One thing they are not, is a part of anything this thread is about.

I know TiVo takes a loss on the hardware sales, and makes up for it in the service subscriptions. That's no secret, and never has been. I know TiVo service is their only hope to recoup anything they may lose, and it's offset by their new MSO partnerships. Since the service is where the money is at (leaving out ad revenues, and the MSO partners), they'd have to be suicidal, as a company, to not find some means to re-assure the masses, that service blackouts can't, or won't happen again, or they can at least make things better, by figuring out a way to make the Roamios function better, if they don't learn how to keep the service working (or just as a contingency).

I have absolutely no hidden agenda about things. I make my agendas clear.

I actually appreciate my Premieres now, way more than I ever did. Why you think what I post is some agenda about Premieres, is just ridiculous. I'm still contemplating what I will do, when it comes to the Roamios I purchased, and the ones not activated.

If you don't like Fox News, don't watch it, listen to it, or read it. That's what the majority of those who don't like Fox New do. Yet, you are also not alone, in being somebody who watches it anyway (if that is the case), and reacting/responding to it.

Would it kill you to not watch Fox News? Nope. You can also un-tick a channel you don't like (me being the channel), and this stalk & snipe thing could be done and over with.

I don't like the ignore function on here. I like the facebook one, where if one party ignores (blocks) another party, that party can't see what the party who initiated the ignore/block posts, either. If we had that level of ignore/block on here, I truly believe this whole forum would be a better place.

I've drifted between on-topic and off-topic, in this post. I don't intend on carrying on doing this sort of "intervention', like I'm doing, due to the fact that even a PM to you, to try and end the ongoing crap, that nobody else wants to see, just gave you an opportunity to make accusations, belittle me, and essentially call me things, which I am not.

Before you even created an account here, I was in a mess, having ticked-off many with posts that make anything posted since your joining, tame, by comparison.

I realized the mess I had made, and the collateral damage. I PM'd the people I was bickering with, and settled the problems with each. My attempt with you, wasn't very finely crafted, but did not deserve the response you gave me. I was trying to extend an olive branch, but you whipped out the flamethrower.

That's what really stands out about you, to me. Nobody has ever been so ridiculously hostile.

It's easy to find old posts of me locked in a dispute/argument, or at odds with somebody. I turned it around, and now I get along just fine with the others.

I don't have a standard boiler-plate Pm for such occasions. I try my best to make each "Let's try to get along" type-PM, fit each situation. I still can't tell if my attempt with you was an Epic fail on my part, or you just have no desire to get along.

The ball is in your court. If we can't get past this, I feel we should block each other, and then things will get better. It's not what I truly want, but this can not keep going on forever. Either quit watching Fox News, or quit getting worked up about them. There's plenty of other news providers you can use, who don't have a bias. If you still insist on watching Fox News, you will always be at odds with them. The same applies here, if we can't get along.

This is my last effort, before I start reporting every post you make, that has little to no value, and just berates/belittles somebody else, or myself.

If you are balking at this, please, I beg of you, add me to your ignore list, so things can go as, as they used to, before you came along, as well as some other newcomers here, who have also become a major PITA.

I'm not belittling newcomers, just the ones that come in and lay down the law, in a place they have no jurisdiction.

Lastly, if you are going to do a hatchet job on a post of mine, in a quote, I ask that you please place a <snip> in every space that exists due to you only quoting parts of my post. Check my replies to others, when I don't quote the full post. I do exactly as I ask you to please do, or anybody else to do.

PM a response, if you must. I like peace talks being kept in PMs to keep threads on-topic. It just didn't work the last time I tried, with you. So, if you must do it publicly, please get it all out, post it, and let's move on. Shall we?


----------



## MikePA1

wmcbrine said:


> Actually there was a significant impact on people who wanted to search for or schedule new recordings.


Significant? Perhaps for people with no life.


----------



## wmcbrine

MikePA1 said:


> -


*plonk*


----------



## bareyb

Tl;dr


----------



## MikePA1

wmcbrine said:


> *plonk*


Right back at ya.


----------



## Dan203

MikePA1 said:


> Significant? Perhaps for people with no life.


Search does not function at all when the connection is down, that's pretty significant in the context of TiVo. Some would argue that owning a TiVo at all means you have no life. Why are you watching TV? Go out and do something loser!


----------



## dianebrat

Since we know units physically disconnected from the internet do seem to have a limp-on mode, I'm going to suggest that the weird "it's sorta up" status of the Tivo services were the cause of some of the extra weirdness for some folks. 

However in all situations it's unacceptable to have that big an outage and not give any communication to your customers afterwards.


----------



## MikePA1

Dan203 said:


> Search does not function at all when the connection is down, that's pretty significant in the context of TiVo.


Search, Live TV and watching recorded shows. As Meatloaf sang, Two out of three ain't bad during a temporary server outage.



Dan203 said:


> Some would argue that owning a TiVo at all means you have no life. Why are you watching TV? Go out and do something loser!


I resemble that remark!


----------



## bareyb

TV is my hobby. I can quit any time I want to.


----------



## moose53

dianebrat said:


> Since we know units physically disconnected from the internet do seem to have a limp-on mode, I'm going to suggest that the weird "it's sorta up" status of the Tivo services were the cause of some of the extra weirdness for some folks.
> 
> However in all situations it's unacceptable to have that big an outage and not give any communication to your customers afterwards.


I worked on Senior Help Desks for over 13 years before I retired 12 years ago. (I know, that makes me a dinosaur  )

I started having Youtube problems before that C133 error showed up. It kept switching back and forth between the old version of VOD Youtube and the new version of VOD Youtube.

To me, that was an indication that they were getting ready to have BIG server problems. I wonder if it had something to do with the 2 million passwords that were stolen from Facebook and Google at just about the same time.

I, too, think it's unconscionable that Tivo doesn't have a way (-->> Twitter) of communicating to their users that they are having problems and give us an estimate of when it will be fixed. There is an @Tivo account but he/she was talking about actors and actresses and upcoming TV events while the servers were crashing about his/her ankles. Not very classy.

Barb


----------



## wco81

I would say that this dependency on an Internet connection should be noted in reviews or consumer guides of this product.

But there is very little competition or product selection for standalone DVRs.

Still we might let Engadget and other sites which have done reviews that a lot of the functionality of Roamios break if the Tivo servers are down.


----------



## ltxi

lessd said:


> I think it is the shock of what does not work on the Roamio when the network goes down, in the old days the network could go down for days and all would be well as the guide data goes out about 10 full days. With the Roamio the TiVo servers have much more control of your TiVo than we knew about.


Yeah, you're undoubtedly right. But the current greater real time, interactive dependencies and outage risks that come with it should be obvious to anyone with an intelligence level greater than a pea. I continue to be amazed at the level of some folks sense of technological entitlement and immediate outrage when the least small bit of it goes even temporarily wrong.


----------



## CloudAtlas

Dan203 said:


> Significant? Perhaps for people with no life.
> 
> 
> 
> Search does not function at all when the connection is down, that's pretty significant in the context of TiVo.
Click to expand...

And not having *search* would keep you from doing what exactly? I ask because I just realized that while I use Google to *search* for everything, I rarely use TiVo search (or Netflix search or even Roku search) . I do use search a bit to initially setup some Season Passes.

I guess different usage patterns explains why some people experience bugs that others never encounter.


----------



## mattycb

C133 back again. So much for the permanent fix that TivoMargaret posted about. :-(

Matt B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## donsullivan

It's back again. Seems like this is becoming a weekly event now where most of the functions of the TiVo get disabled. What exactly are we paying for if the service is broken this much. Seems that someone made a major architectural mistake with this new software and didn't have the infrastructure ready to support it.

I was an original TiVo owner back in 1999 but went away along they way due to DirecTV. I just came back to TiVo with the Roamio but this is not encouraging when seemingly once a week, many of the functions of the box are unavailable. But I still have to pay for services that are not working.


----------



## RustySTL

Same here


----------



## elwaylite

On my basic as well


----------



## jasbur

Such a PIA!
It has a problem with the service when I want something, but has no problem putting up ads when I pause something.


----------



## s10023

I have the error too


----------



## emerz

Got home at 6:00PM tonight and here we go again!


----------



## comedian999

Same here in Massachusetts. It came back for a minute, but just punted again...


----------



## Dan203

Seems to be working OK for me. I even did a search. Although it did seem a bit slow.


----------



## rcedwards

Same in Georgia....


----------



## Dan203

I wonder if this is an east coast only problem?


----------



## andyf

Happening in Houston, TX


----------



## s10023

I'm in NY area getting error. Also Netflix doesnt work. Would that be affected by the TiVo service outage?


----------



## morac

It's down for me as well in NJ. The C133 error goes away and the menus re-enable periodically, but trying to use any feature causes the C133 error come back. That or I get a C501 error.


----------



## El Maestro

Out near Syracuse, NY


----------



## jay_man2

Same here.


----------



## Big Behr

Out in San Diego.


----------



## Lil'Ed

Montgomery, Al is having the problem also. I did a system reboot before checking other Tivo's.


----------



## Lil'Ed

Montgomery Alabama, error C133


----------



## donsullivan

I'm having a fruitless chat conversion with TiVo support and while they acknowledge the problem, I'm being told we should expect it to last a few more hours tonight. 

I'm also being told that there is no commitment on when a software update intended to fix the problem will be released.

Really starting to regret my decision to re-invest in the TiVo platform


----------



## BriHiFi

Oh boy, here we go again. Out in Miami, Florida as well. I called customer service and they said that they were seeing at high amount of calls with the C133 message. This is been such a big problem over the past two months and I figure I give them a call. Hopefully the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Maybe if the reps spend most of their time with customers trying to resolve this problem they might eventually get it fixed.


----------



## rcedwards

Service back for now....


----------



## hybucket

133 back tonight in Boston. Neighbor NOT getting it. Does connect and download service, but no Netflux etc and the error msg on Tivio central.


----------



## KevinG

C133 is S. Jersey now.


----------



## morac

It's working for me again.


----------



## jimmypowder

C133 message back up again.


----------



## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> I wonder if this is an east coast only problem?


I am east coast/mid atlantic. No error. But I only just now checked for today. Perhaps it was there and now went away.


----------



## morac

Margret tweeted (to me) that the issue has been resolved.


----------



## El Maestro

Back up near Syracuse; error is gone for now.


----------



## hybucket

morac said:


> Margret tweeted (to me) that the issue has been resolved.


Margaret is wrong. For me anyway.
Customer service calls backed up 15 minutes with 133 complaints, CSR tells me. Says should be fixed within the hour. Yup.


----------



## Beryl

Happened in the Denver area also but it is working now.


----------



## El Maestro

Service is back up but I am getting 501 errors when trying to populate the Movies part of the "What to Watch Now" menu.


----------



## comedian999

Same here - service is back, but C501s about every third thing I do in browsing for programs...

...which is not something I need to do tonight. But after buying a Roamio Pro with lifetime service, installing it and seeing service problems twice, all in 8 days, it's like poking a sore tooth.


----------



## nooneuknow

Does seem to be back up.

Southern NV

But, as I said, I'd wait awhile before trying to activate new TiVos or making any changes that could disable your TiVo for primetime, should this be faltering before something bigger, yet to happen, like last time.

Good luck.


----------



## wco81

BriHiFi said:


> Oh boy, here we go again. Out in Miami, Florida as well. I called customer service and they said that they were seeing at high amount of calls with the C133 message. This is been such a big problem over the past two months and I figure I give them a call. Hopefully the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Maybe if the reps spend most of their time with customers trying to resolve this problem they might eventually get it fixed.


Well it costs them money to take calls.

So eventually they raise the price of the subscription.


----------



## hybucket

Back here but will stick to the basics til sure it's stable.


----------



## pshivers

C133 off and on all day long here in Alhambra, CA (Los Angeles)....


----------



## nooneuknow

pshivers said:


> C133 off and on all day long here in Alhambra, CA (Los Angeles)....


It's been a bit unstable here in southern NV, too.

It's mostly brief and spontaneous C133s, but after the last incident, I want to see 24 hours without any interruptions before I go changing anything like setting up new TiVos, taking out old ones out, changing any configuration settings (like the channel lineup), and/or anything else that might get stuck if the service is interrupted.

A half-dozen new threads were started today on individual things that got stuck, didn't complete, or wouldn't work, with no mention of the C133. But it's the obvious culprit, and they were all posted in Roamio areas, which still seems to support the Roamio being more dysfunctional when these things happen. I hope TiVo finds a way to, at minimum, make it so the Roamio loses no more function than a Premiere would, when there is TiVo service issues.

We shouldn't have to unplug a Roamio from the network, just to have it be useable, at the level a Premiere can be without unplugging it from the network, IMNSHO.


----------



## NorthAlabama

yeah, it was bad for an hour or more this afternoon in al, not to mention all the short and random outages for the past week or so. strange, it hasn't affected pandora, though.


----------



## mburnno

Does anybody really know why Tivo is getting these C133 error messages? Really Tivo, what the heck are you doing? Is Tivo upgrading something on their servers or applying a patch to their services that is causing these problem. Come on Tivo use your big kid words and communicate to your customers.


----------



## s10023

C133 back up for me this morning. NY area


----------



## cherry ghost

nooneuknow said:


> A half-dozen new threads were started today on individual things that got stuck, didn't complete, or wouldn't work, with no mention of the C133. But it's the obvious culprit, and they were all posted in Roamio areas, which still seems to support the Roamio being more dysfunctional when these things happen. I hope TiVo finds a way to, at minimum, make it so the Roamio loses no more function than a Premiere would, when there is TiVo service issues.
> 
> We shouldn't have to unplug a Roamio from the network, just to have it be useable, at the level a Premiere can be without unplugging it from the network, IMNSHO.


What are the functions Roamios lose that Premieres don't? I see no difference, but haven't been comparing much.


----------



## mrfantasy

cherry ghost said:


> What are the functions Roamios lose that Premieres don't? I see no difference, but haven't been comparing much.


Well, if my experience is any indicator, I have no access to streaming services, and my TiVo Minis are unable to connect to my Roamio Plus.

I'm about ready to demand a refund. Between these issues and the still daily reboots with 16dB of attenuation on my incoming cable line, I'm amazed that TiVo could release a box that's so fundamentally unstable, and only offer voodoo when I ask to fix it (cable line attenuation and "plugging directly into my router" are not real solutions to real problems in my opinion.) The fact that their service is now failing and causes the boxes to be mostly non-functional (okay, it's still recording shows from cable and I can still watch them on the Plus itself, so it's not completely broken, but nothing else beyond that is working, and I certainly didn't buy it just for that) is thoroughly unacceptable from a "real" company.


----------



## cherry ghost

mrfantasy said:


> Well, if my experience is any indicator, I have no access to streaming services, and my TiVo Minis are unable to connect to my Roamio Plus.


You can use streaming services on your Premiere and your Minis connect to your Premiere during a C133?


----------



## pshivers

Everything is back up and talking to each other this morning, C133 errors have stopped for now.

I have two Roamio's and 3 Mini's that I have installed over the past two months that replaced 4 Charter Cisco DVR's. I love the functionality of my new networked system when it works, but the C133 errors make the Mini's completely useless and communications between the two Roamios is also interrupted.

It is becoming difficult to explain to the Wife why I spent all this money on a new Tivo system when we can't watch our Bedroom TV during these rather frequent outages!

Come on Tivo, get your *$#!+* together!!! 

*Update:

Spoke too soon! C133 came back as I was writing the post above, problem has continued all morning long here in Sunny Southern California! Argh!*


----------



## Irishb

The C133 error resurfaced in Atlanta,Ga today @ Noon. I am still receiving the error going on 6 hours. This is getting to be all too common and it is frustrating. Tivo support denies any service outage. Tivo needs to get their act together.
I am very close to returning my Roamio and Mini to Amazon for a refund.


----------



## jimmypowder

Irishb said:


> The C133 error resurfaced in Atlanta,Ga today @ Noon. I am still receiving the error going on 6 hours. This is getting to be all too common and it is frustrating. Tivo support denies any service outage. Tivo needs to get their act together.
> I am very close to returning my Roamio and Mini to Amazon for a refund.


Don't blame you. I have never seen so many problems with the Tivo .

More problems in the last 2-3 months then in the last decade .No exaggeration.I bought one of the first boxes they ever made
so I'm guessing 10 years?


----------



## mrfantasy

Mine has been showing a C133 for most of 24 hours at this point. I've just finished a chat session where they told me to check my router ports and reboot the device a few times. Of course it's not helping. 

Is there a magical incantation I can say to make them realize the problem isn't on my end?


----------



## Irishb

My Roamio and Mini have worked fine since the December 3rd Tivo system crash was resolved. 
I have exchanged emails with Tivo Margaret and she claims that everything was fine on the Tivo end...
I guess i will shut down the Tivo for the night and watch something on the AppleTv. At least the Apple Tv works and does not cost me a monthly fee.


----------



## nooneuknow

mrfantasy said:


> Mine has been showing a C133 for most of 24 hours at this point. I've just finished a chat session where they told me to check my router ports and reboot the device a few times. Of course it's not helping.
> 
> Is there a magical incantation I can say to make them realize the problem isn't on my end?


It seems to be a regional issue this time. I've been up solid, since my last post on the subject.

The magical incantation (if applicable) is "I'd like to use the 30-day money back guarantee".

But, that just gets your money back. Since there's only regional issues, it could be something that is beyond TiVo's control. That being said, I feel they need to update the software to handle any sort of disruption more gracefully.

If they don't, by the end of my 30-day decision window, I may just take my own advice.


----------



## edpete97

Just bought my first Roamio and Mini yesterday. Took all afternoon to finally get it to 'work'. Then all of today I have C133 in the DC area. Weird that my mini sees the TV tuners of my Roamio but says it can't find a DVR on the network. It amazes me that I can change channels, but no guide, on my mini even though it says there is no DVR on the network. Not a good first impression. Day 2 of 30 day money back and I haven't even had good service for 24 hours yet. I bought lifetime memberships for both.


----------



## pshivers

Still down and out in Sunny Southern California, been about a 36 hour C133 error with a very brief up time early this morning... Is there any reason to call TiVo, or would I just be spinning my wheels?


----------



## marlond

At my house we've seen the C133 error so often we've started calling the big brown exclamation point the 'skidmark'.


----------



## nooneuknow

I'm still solidly up in Southern Nevada, w/Cox internet...

Maybe I should extend my usual advice about making sure to post the region you are in to also include your internet service provider...

There's no cluster that I've noticed, and if it was affecting everybody, even for a short time, the C133 related threads would be lighting up like Christmas trees with posts. I'm not seeing that, with whatever the deal is.

I suppose it could still be on TiVo's end, since a single server being glitchy, could still cause something like this, while other servers stay solid. But, good luck getting them to admit it.

It took a national outage and over 12 hours before TiVoMargret tweeted they were working on it (an admission of a fault), while the TiVo CSRs were still telling people nothing was wrong on their end, and nearly a day into it they put up a recorded message when you called in. That's just unacceptable.


----------



## Beryl

C133 in the Denver area.


----------



## TiVoMargret

There is a small subset of our customers that experienced a C133 error today. If you are one of them, please connect to the TiVo Service after 8:30pm Pacific, and wait about 5 minutes for everything to resolve.

I am so sorry for the trouble!

--Margret


----------



## Beryl

Thanks, Margret.


----------



## Beryl

Connected successfully at 9:15 PM PST. C133 persists.

Restarted TiVo box. C133 persists.

Debugging on my end is pointless, time-consuming, and frustrating. 

I'd be happy if TiVo would just provide availability information on a status page.


----------



## jlee3

Connected 3 times still C133 in MD.


----------



## jstevenson

I'm assuming this issue is related to my Mini no longer talking to my Roamio.

That said, my Roamio is showing a connection to the service.

My Mini will not proceed past "one moment" and the blue circle despite reboots.


----------



## nooneuknow

jstevenson said:


> I'm assuming this issue is related to my Mini no longer talking to my Roamio.
> 
> That said, my Roamio is showing a connection to the service.
> 
> My Mini will not proceed past "one moment" and the blue circle despite reboots.


Yes, your new whole home DVR becomes anything but, if it can't suckle the TiVo service's teat.

This is why I will never buy a Mini, unless TiVo loosens up the "brick mode", it deliberately imposes upon its devices, when anything interrupts the real-time service connection (the root of the C133 error).


----------



## jstevenson

Just for some further info, I can reboot my Mini with no Moca/internet connection and it will complete the reboot. Upon then restoring the connection, it never "sees" the Roamio (says it cannot find the DVR), but I can hit Live TV and change channels - so it's obviously semi-talking to the Roamio.

If i attempt a reboot with the internet connection active, it hangs on ONE MOMENT.

Also, I did not suffer C133 errors, though I MAY have been suffering them without my knowledge as I haven't watched TV at home since Sunday. Tonight my TiVo showed my last connection being this morning, and I just forced and had a successful connection before re-testing the mini, which continued to operate as I described above (failing to boot with an active connection, booting successfully with no connection, but upon restoration of connection not finding the Roamio - though being able to use LiveTV / roamio's tuner)


----------



## jstevenson

nooneuknow said:


> Yes, your new whole home DVR becomes anything but, if it can't suckle the TiVo service's teat.
> 
> This is why I will never buy a Mini, unless TiVo loosens up the "brick mode", it deliberately imposes upon its devices, when anything interrupts the real-time service connection (the root of the C133 error).


*shrug* - it's honestly not the end of the world to go to the room to watch TV. Irritating, and TiVo needs to fix it and ensure stable service and Whole Home working even if the service is down temporarily, but a hiccup at this point. As long as the recordings happen, not a gigantic issue to move rooms.

I understand in other households this could be a bigger problem, but we gots plenty of ways to entertain ourselves for an evening as long as the outage doesn't last more than a night!


----------



## Beryl

Today C133 is only happening with my Roamio Plus -- not my Premiere. 

I'm done doing anything except complaining on my end. I replaced my perfectly good "green switch" to fix a previous TiVo problem. I don't want to turn around 3 times, touch my nose, and stand on one foot to fix anymore TiVo problems. 

This C133 problem needs to be fixed by TiVo.


----------



## nooneuknow

jstevenson said:


> *shrug* - it's honestly not the end of the world to go to the room to watch TV. Irritating, and TiVo needs to fix it and ensure stable service and Whole Home working even if the service is down temporarily, but a hiccup at this point. As long as the recordings happen, not a gigantic issue to move rooms.
> 
> I understand in other households this could be a bigger problem, but we gots plenty of ways to entertain ourselves for an evening as long as the outage doesn't last more than a night!


It's the bigger picture that I looked at when I made the decision that a Mini was not for me.

Think about how many different things could interrupt the real-time connection. The internet is not immune to having problems, and neither is your home network. There have been plenty of times that I had to reboot my cable modem, or get Cox to fix an issue with their internet service. Any one part has a problem, and all the Minis go down.


----------



## nooneuknow

Beryl said:


> Today C133 is only happening with my Roamio Plus -- not my Premiere.
> 
> I'm done doing anything except complaining on my end. I replaced my perfectly good "green switch" to fix a previous TiVo problem. I don't want to turn around 3 times, touch my nose, and stand on one foot to fix anymore TiVo problems.
> 
> This C133 problem needs to be fixed by TiVo.


+1 :up:


----------



## jstevenson

nooneuknow said:


> It's the bigger picture that I looked at when I made the decision that a Mini was not for me.
> 
> Think about how many different things could interrupt the real-time connection. The internet is not immune to having problems, and neither is your home network. There have been plenty of times that I had to reboot my cable modem, or get Cox to fix an issue with their internet service. Any one part has a problem, and all the Minis go down.


sure but I mean, any sort of internet service shouldn't create an issue unless you have a long term outage.

That then leaves local network issues. I'll agree with you there in some fashion, as in my experience the only way to create a stable enough environment for the Mini was a Moca connection.

That said, once on Moca, except for a few random drops (which were instantly corrected and playback resumed where i left off --- and I actually think is a software bug relating to watching an inprogress recording and getting near the end of it, rather than a network issue), this has been the first major issue I've had with the mini since the Roamio came out


----------



## usofa

Here in Central Texas i have had the C133 for the last few hours. All was well but then streaming would not work. Tried to reboot and got the C133 error. 

I can connect to the Tivo Service, but no special functions work. Tivo Premieres are still working fine except can not stream from Roamio. 

Other oddity is when browsing from Premiere to Roamio the menu switches to low definition for the Roamio now playing list. Then gives error message that their is a network error
Scott


----------



## Philmatic

C133 here, Cox in Santa Barbara. Been down for about six hours.


----------



## HarperVision

Beryl said:


> Today C133 is only happening with my Roamio Plus -- not my Premiere.
> 
> I'm done doing anything except complaining on my end. I replaced my perfectly good "green switch" to fix a previous TiVo problem. I don't want to turn around 3 times, touch my nose, and stand on one foot to fix anymore TiVo problems.
> 
> This C133 problem needs to be fixed by TiVo.


Amongst other things........... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9929754#post9929754


----------



## jlee3

Working ok after connecting to tivo in MD.


----------



## Irishb

The C133 error was remedied this A.M. after reboot and phone home to TIVO mothership.


----------



## mike-d

jstevenson said:


> Just for some further info, I can reboot my Mini with no Moca/internet connection and it will complete the reboot. Upon then restoring the connection, it never "sees" the Roamio (says it cannot find the DVR), but I can hit Live TV and change channels - so it's obviously semi-talking to the Roamio.
> 
> If i attempt a reboot with the internet connection active, it hangs on ONE MOMENT.
> 
> Also, I did not suffer C133 errors, though I MAY have been suffering them without my knowledge as I haven't watched TV at home since Sunday. Tonight my TiVo showed my last connection being this morning, and I just forced and had a successful connection before re-testing the mini, which continued to operate as I described above (failing to boot with an active connection, booting successfully with no connection, but upon restoration of connection not finding the Roamio - though being able to use LiveTV / roamio's tuner)


Exactly my situation here in MD. When will this be fixed?


----------



## pshivers

I started receiving C130 (No network connection) errors in addition to the C133 errors yesterday afternoon on my Roamio Pro. 

I checked the Roamio in one of the bedrooms with the Actiontec MoCA Adapter and found it had no internet access at all (all Actiontec lights were on and green). I removed the power from Actiontec MoCA adapter and changed the settings on the Roamio to wireless, it connected immediately to the Internet, all error messages went away and began to function normally again.

I immediately checked my Roamio Pro in the Family room and the three Tivo Minis and all were also functioning normally again! All error messages were gone!

I'm not sure if the Actiomtec MoCA adapter went bad or if I somehow have it hooked up wrong. The Roamio did function properly for a couple of hours when I first installed it the day before with the Actiontec MoCA adapter connected, so I will need to do some troubleshooting in that area. It seems the Actiontec device was somehow severely impacting my MoCA network!

All is well once again here in Sunny Southern California, just need to find the box for the Actiontec MoCA adapter so I can return it....


----------



## Bierboy

Irishb said:


> The C133 error was remedied this A.M. after reboot and phone home to TIVO mothership.


I received an update night, then re-booted....and then I HAD the C133 error when, before the update I did NOT...

Have 20.3.8 now...but this is a Premiere. And the C133 problem persists this morning...ugh


----------



## s10023

i dont have a moca adapter; my roamio is hooked up using wireless connection to router. i too got the "no internet connection found" yesterday after the c133 went away. rebooted the roamio and it started working.


----------



## Beryl

No C133 this AM and I see that it connected at 6:22 am PST. The iOS TiVo app works again also.

I'm satisfied with my resolution to stop doing troubleshooting on my end since these C133 errors are NOT end-user problems.

*If Margret is listening*, users should not be instructed to take action to resolve TiVo problems except to report the problem. If resolution requires a forced TiVo connection, TiVo should push out that connection.

A TiVo system status page should include a problem reporting link. TiVo should connect the status page with user accounts so TiVo will have details (e.g. time of error, service numbers, email addresses) to facilitate resolution and a way to communicate to affected users. When TiVo suspects the problem is resolved, TiVo should then communicate to the end user so they can either confirm or provide more information.

This is the kind of thing Apple, Comcast and many utility companies do so they don't have to broadcast outages to unaffected customers. It is also the kind of system my former employer, IBM, set up for its customers.


----------



## NorthAlabama

my neighbor's and my c133 errors on premier have diminished, and still no update to 20.3.8 (i'm on the list). i won't force connections if there's no issue:

_"if it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is"_


----------



## rainwater

Beryl said:


> *If Margret is listening*, users should not be instructed to take action to resolve TiVo problems except to report the problem. If resolution requires a forced TiVo connection, TiVo should push out that connection.


The connection attempt happens automatically. If TiVo tells you to force a connection, they are only doing so to speed up the process. The fact that you have a C133 error means there is no active connection to TiVo servers. So for them to force a connection from their side would be technically impossible.


----------



## jntc

Beryl said:


> ...
> 
> I'm satisfied with my resolution to stop doing troubleshooting on my end since these C133 errors are NOT end-user problems.
> 
> *If Margret is listening*, users should not be instructed to take action to resolve TiVo problems except to report the problem. ... ...
> 
> A TiVo system status page should include a problem reporting link. TiVo should connect the status page with user accounts so TiVo will have details (e.g. time of error, service numbers, email addresses) to facilitate resolution and a way to communicate to affected users. When TiVo suspects the problem is resolved, TiVo should then communicate to the end user so they can either confirm or provide more information.
> 
> ...


 THIS :up: :up: :up:


----------



## nooneuknow

Beryl said:


> No C133 this AM and I see that it connected at 6:22 am PST. The iOS TiVo app works again also.
> 
> I'm satisfied with my resolution to stop doing troubleshooting on my end since these C133 errors are NOT end-user problems.
> 
> *If Margret is listening*, users should not be instructed to take action to resolve TiVo problems except to report the problem. If resolution requires a forced TiVo connection, TiVo should push out that connection.
> 
> A TiVo system status page should include a problem reporting link. TiVo should connect the status page with user accounts so TiVo will have details (e.g. time of error, service numbers, email addresses) to facilitate resolution and a way to communicate to affected users. When TiVo suspects the problem is resolved, TiVo should then communicate to the end user so they can either confirm or provide more information.
> 
> This is the kind of thing Apple, Comcast and many utility companies do so they don't have to broadcast outages to unaffected customers. It is also the kind of system my former employer, IBM, set up for its customers.


+1 :up:


----------



## rainwater

Beryl said:


> *If Margret is listening*, users should not be instructed to take action to resolve TiVo problems except to report the problem. If resolution requires a forced TiVo connection, TiVo should push out that connection.


First off, she is clearly listening as she is responding to users and trying to solve the issue.

Second, users don't HAVE to take any action to resolve the issue. It will fix itself on its own. Asking users to force a connection is just a way to fix the issue faster. Don't do it and it will eventually force a connection on its own.


----------



## Beryl

rainwater said:


> First off, she is clearly listening as she is responding to users and trying to solve the issue. Second, users don't HAVE to take any action to resolve the issue. It will fix itself on its own. Asking users to force a connection is just a way to fix the issue faster. Don't do it and it will eventually force a connection on its own.


Perhaps you did not read that the forced connection after 9:30 pm PST advice provided *did not work*.


----------



## jimmypowder

Here's betting I see the C133 message on Christmas day. Anyone wanna take that bet? LOL!


----------



## Bierboy

rainwater said:


> First off, she is clearly listening as she is responding to users and trying to solve the issue...


She responded within minutes to my Twitter comment...kudos.


----------



## rainwater

Beryl said:


> Perhaps you did not read that the forced connection after 9:30 pm PST advice provided *did not work*.


Yes, the point was to get the c133 to be removed faster. Again, it was not necessary. She only offered that up to hep people get their TiVo back to functioning faster. The fact that it didn't work for everyone means they still had issues. I don't see the problem with asking people to force a connection in this case. Especially since it wasn't required to get it fixed.


----------



## CloudAtlas

rainwater said:


> First off, she is clearly listening as she is responding to users and trying to solve the issue.
> 
> Second, users don't HAVE to take any action to resolve the issue. It will fix itself on its own. Asking users to force a connection is just a way to fix the issue faster. Don't do it and it will eventually force a connection on its own.


:up:


rainwater said:


> Yes, the point was to get the c133 to be removed faster. Again, it was not necessary. She only offered that up to help people get their TiVo back to functioning faster. The fact that it didn't work for everyone means they still had issues. I don't see the problem with asking people to force a connection in this case. Especially since it wasn't required to get it fixed.


:up:


----------



## Sam Dotson

I just purchased a Roamio plus and a Mini, and my install date with FIOS is on the 16th, but after reading all about these new Tivo stability issues, I'm starting to have second thoughts about canceling my Directv. Directv certainly has its own stability issues when there is a storm, but they are pretty rare, and short lived for me. When I read all the posts on this issue, I cant quite tell what works and what doesn't when this issue crops up. Could someone summarize what works and what doesn't when this issue happens, before I overreact and put my new Tivo hardware up for sale.

Sam


----------



## NorthAlabama

Sam Dotson said:


> ...I'm starting to have second thoughts about canceling my Directv....When I read all the posts on this issue, I cant quite tell what works and what doesn't when this issue crops up.


i suggest you give fios a try, at least for the trial period (check the policy on their website). dtv might send you a great "come back" offer if you're not happy.


Sam Dotson said:


> Could someone summarize what works and what doesn't when this issue happens, before I overreact and put my new Tivo hardware up for sale.


keep in mind this is not a constant or regular issue. it's been more of a hassel the last week or so, but i'm convinced tivo will go back to normal (rare outages). my biggest hassel has been in deleting upcoming recordings from my to do list and server dependent content searches. my pandora has still worked, but others are reporting trouble with online apps.


----------



## lessd

NorthAlabama said:


> i suggest you give fios a try, at least for the trial period (check the policy on their website). dtv might send you a great "come back" offer if you're not happy.
> 
> keep in mind this is not a constant or regular issue. it's been more of a hassel the last week or so, but i'm convinced tivo will go back to normal (rare outages). my biggest hassel has been in deleting upcoming recordings from my to do list and server dependent content searches. my pandora has still worked, but others are reporting trouble with online apps.


C133 came in CT tonight for about 30 min, just when I was watching Netflix, that error stopped my Netflix, had to go to my smart TV to finish the movie.


----------



## Sam Dotson

Does live and recorded TV still work when this error occurs?

Sam


----------



## dianebrat

Sam Dotson said:


> Does live and recorded TV still work when this error occurs?


Yes, as does streaming between 2 units in the same house.


----------



## Bierboy

Sam Dotson said:


> I just purchased a Roamio plus and a Mini, and my install date with FIOS is on the 16th, but after reading all about these new Tivo stability issues, I'm starting to have second thoughts about canceling my Directv. Directv certainly has its own stability issues when there is a storm, but they are pretty rare, and short lived for me. When I read all the posts on this issue, I cant quite tell what works and what doesn't when this issue crops up. Could someone summarize what works and what doesn't when this issue happens, before I overreact and put my new Tivo hardware up for sale.
> 
> Sam


Please keep in mind the VAST MAJORITY of TiVo users have few if any problems. It's normal for the "complainers" to be the loudest and post in these fora...


----------



## Beryl

dianebrat said:


> Yes, as does streaming between 2 units in the same house.


Local streaming worked between two TiVo units but not between a iOS device and the affected TiVo. The iOS app does not work at all with a device experiencing C133.

I've not seen it happen with my Premiere.


----------



## moyekj

Bierboy said:


> Please keep in mind the VAST MAJORITY of TiVo users have few if any problems. It's normal for the "complainers" to be the loudest and post in these fora...


 I see these statements all the time, but in reality we have no way of knowing that either. Undoubtedly posts here will skew to those having problems, but we can't make any extrapolations to users at large based on posts or lack of posts here.


----------



## dianebrat

Beryl said:


> Local streaming worked between two TiVo units but not between a iOS device and the affected TiVo. The iOS app does not work at all with a device experiencing C133.


Correct, the iOS app will not reliably work when the Tivo service is unreachable, I was referring to watching and recording on the units the poster referred to, they didn't mention the iOS app in their question.


----------



## jimmypowder

moyekj said:


> I see these statements all the time, but in reality we have no way of knowing that either. Undoubtedly posts here will skew to those having problems, but we can't make any extrapolations to users at large based on posts or lack of posts here.


Yeah you got that right . No one knows but Tivo the extent if the problems .

Here's guessing they are a lot larger then people think .


----------



## pshivers

Update from Sunny Southern California... No more C133 errors or errors of any kind on all my TiVo's since I removed the bad moCA adapter from the network yesterday!!


----------



## pappasc

Sam Dotson said:


> Does live and recorded TV still work when this error occurs?
> 
> Sam


When I get Tivo server down error c133 (which has been a ton in the last two weeks), my minis are pretty much bricked. Sometimes, I can get live tv to stream to them but I have to manually input the channels as the guide won't work. Nothing else will work on the minis. Not even recorded shows.

My Roamio will watch tv and play recorded shows, but nothing else will work- ondemand, Netflix, etc.

I have no idea why they would design the software this way. It seems so extremely basic.


----------



## pappasc

dianebrat said:


> Yes, as does streaming between 2 units in the same house.


This seems incorrect to me-- at least as it relates to minis. I confirmed with tivo tech support that when c133 appears, minis can't find my Roamio and hence, can't do anything except maybe stream live tv (with frequent drops.)

Again, for the life of me, I can't understand why tivo would design these things this way. Why should the mini in my bedroom require a connection to a tivo cloud server to simply connect to the Roamio in my living room? It's like they've designed this thing with extra ways to fail... And then proceeded to have hours of network downtime on a regular basis.

Had I known this, I would've never purchased. I recently dumped $2000 into a Roamio pro and 5 minis with lifetime service to get rid of comcast boxes. Big mistake. I had various old generation tivos from 99-11 and never had an issue. With the Roamio and minis, it seems I can't even watch tv without a problem. Honestly. I used to be the biggest fan.


----------



## morac

pappasc said:


> This seems incorrect to me-- at least as it relates to minis. I confirmed with tivo tech support that when c133 appears, minis can't find my Roamio and hence, can't do anything except maybe stream live tv (with frequent drops.)


That doesn't mesh up with what TiVo posted on the Mini FAQ/Troubleshooting page.

It says even if the host and Mini can't connect to the Internet, basic things like the program guide, streaming, etc will still work as long as your local network is still working.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2474/


----------



## pappasc

morac said:


> That doesn't mesh up with what TiVo posted on the Mini FAQ/Troubleshooting page.
> 
> It says even if the host and Mini can't connect to the Internet, basic things like the program guide, streaming, etc will still work as long as your local network is still working.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2474/


My experience is that with a Roamio, their FAQ is incorrect. I had this issue during the two recent extended tivo outages and both times when I called, their techs told me that this was the issue. I had no access to my shows. Mini says that it can't find the host DVR. Yet, if you watch live tv, it will work (at least for a few minutes) before I get an error message that it "lost connection" again. To quote the support guy:

"During this most recent outage," (which I thought was a telling phrase!!!) "I've at least been able to get some users to access live tv on the minis."


----------



## pappasc

morac said:


> That doesn't mesh up with what TiVo posted on the Mini FAQ/Troubleshooting page.
> 
> It says even if the host and Mini can't connect to the Internet, basic things like the program guide, streaming, etc will still work as long as your local network is still working.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2474/


This post sums it up... During same timeframe as my last outage:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9932901#post9932901


----------



## MHunter1

On Friday, Dec. 13, around 11pm PT, whenever I browsed to a program's "upcoming episodes" list then selected one of the episode titles, my Premiere Elite crashed and rebooted. It was repeatable several times on different random programs. This morning the problem corrected itself and the UI is stable.

I'm assuming this is related to the DVR relying on TiVo's servers to display episode info and something was wrong with them last night. I am on the priority list for v20.3.8 and was hoping the glitch was caused by TiVo trying to prepare my DVR for the update, but I still have v20.3.7 and no "pending restart" message after several manual connections.

It's very upsetting knowing that something as simple as browsing upcoming episodes can cause the DVR to crash.


----------



## s10023

c133 back for me. ny area.


----------



## nooneuknow

moyekj said:


> I see these statements all the time, but in reality we have no way of knowing that either. Undoubtedly posts here will skew to those having problems, but we can't make any extrapolations to users at large based on posts or lack of posts here.


+1 :up:


----------



## skid71

My two minis worked just fine (watched recorded and live TV) on the massive C133 day. I'm on a MoCA network if that makes a difference.


----------



## s10023

restart fixed my c133. didnt go away on its own. it seems that if a wireless connection is lost my roamio has difficulty reconnecting to the network without a restart.


----------



## DeltaOne

skid71 said:


> My two minis worked just fine (watched recorded and live TV) on the massive C133 day. I'm on a MoCA network if that makes a difference.


My two Minis also worked fine during the C133 stuff. Connected via Ethernet.

I wouldn't have known about the C133 stuff if I didn't read new posts here. Our Plus and two Minis were working fine.


----------



## Andrel

s10023 said:


> restart fixed my c133. didnt go away on its own. it seems that if a wireless connection is lost my roamio has difficulty reconnecting to the network without a restart.


Rarely recover on its own. The Roamio is wired. What I do to restore, i disconnect/reconnect the network cable for a second. It always work to bring it back, unless the tivo service is hard down.

My premiere on the same network, never has this problem.


----------



## Sixto

DeltaOne said:


> My two Minis also worked fine during the C133 stuff. Connected via Ethernet.
> 
> I wouldn't have known about the C133 stuff if I didn't read new posts here. Our Plus and two Minis were working fine.


Same here. My wife mentioned the next day that there was some message in the upper left, that was our only issue. Really weird that some people lost everything and others had little to zero effect for the C133.


----------



## cram501

dianebrat said:


> Yes, as does streaming between 2 units in the same house.


When i have the C133 error, streaming between devices does not work for me. I can transfer but I can't stream.


----------



## sangs

Running into this C133 error for the first time this morning. Is the consensus just to wait it out until it self corrects? Or should I reboot the Roamios?


----------



## KevinG

sangs said:


> Running into this C133 error for the first time this morning. Is the consensus just to wait it out until it self corrects? Or should I reboot the Roamios?


First thing to do is to make sure that the rest of your house is still connected to the internet properly.  In my case, my roamio had a c133, and so did my mini. I was about to log onto this forum via my laptop to see if others were complaining, but my damn laptop ALSO couldn't see the internet...

Turns out, one of my kids had accidentally unplugged one of the network switches. 

Plugging the switch back in repaired the roamio and the mini without rebooting either, in my case. In previous (real) widespread C133 situations, I also recovered without a reboot. But there have been stories of a reboot causing the error to clear (sooner?).


----------



## sangs

Everything else connected to internet working just fine, so that can't be it. Thanks though. 

EDIT - It's all back now. Error gone, Tivo service working properly.


----------



## aaronwt

I completely missed this outage. I think the night it happened I was watched half a dozen recordings. I remember something being wrong with the Discovery bar, but it had no effect on what I was doing. And I've not noticed any issues since then. 

Of course if I been trying to do something that was down from the outage then I would have been affected. But as long as the outages are rare, and the main function of the TiVo, watching recorded content, is still working, then I don't see it being a big problem.

I don't recall running into the C133 issue. If I have then it was a while ago.


----------



## pshivers

Managed to make it through the whole weekend with zero errors, perhaps all is corrected for now?


----------



## Bierboy

moyekj said:


> I see these statements all the time, but in reality we have no way of knowing that either. Undoubtedly posts here will skew to those having problems, but we can't make any extrapolations to users at large based on posts or lack of posts here.





jimmypowder said:


> Yeah you got that right . No one knows but Tivo the extent if the problems .
> 
> Here's guessing they are a lot larger then people think .


Seriously? This is common knowledge...


----------



## Rkkeller

If anyone is on the TiVo Facebook page, they usually post if there is a prolonged outage.


----------



## rjrustia

C133 again in North Central Florida. Can't cancel or delete currently recording suggestion. Is it me or does this seem to occur on Tuesdays?

Resolved.


----------



## Dan203

Happened to me earlier as well. Man I hope this is happening because they're upgrading something and not because their servers are incapable of handling the load.


----------



## lessd

Dan203 said:


> Happened to me earlier as well. Man I hope this is happening because they're upgrading something and not because their servers are incapable of handling the load.


TiVo servers are linked to the ACA servers ??


----------



## pgoelz

Just thought I'd bump this back to the top to observe that at least here, the C113s seem to be GONE. Haven't had one in at least two weeks and we use the Roamio (and Netflix) heavily. 

Does anyone know if that is just luck or has a solution been found? Has anyone had a C133 in the last week? 

Paul


----------



## nooneuknow

pgoelz said:


> Just thought I'd bump this back to the top to observe that at least here, the C113s seem to be GONE. Haven't had one in at least two weeks and we use the Roamio (and Netflix) heavily.
> 
> Does anyone know if that is just luck or has a solution been found? Has anyone had a C133 in the last week?
> 
> Paul


Kudos on showing people can post both the good and the bad. :up:

It's been good here as well, both Roamios and Premiere (no C133).


----------



## pgoelz

nooneuknow said:


> Kudos on showing people can post both the good and the bad. :up:
> 
> It's been good here as well, both Roamios and Premiere (no C133).


Hey, I've been a bitter complainer (more to Tivo than here on the forum) about the C133 errors. But I am just as eager to acknowledge when things go right. Without the C133s, the Roamio is the best DVR I have had to date. Lets hope it stays that way!

Paul


----------



## nooneuknow

pgoelz said:


> Hey, I've been a bitter complainer (more to Tivo than here on the forum) about the C133 errors. But I am just as eager to acknowledge when things go right. Without the C133s, the Roamio is the best DVR I have had to date. Lets hope it stays that way!
> 
> Paul


:up: I agree 100%!


----------



## pshivers

Update No more errors since 12/13/2013! 

I installed the replacement Actiontec MoCA Adapter on my Sil's Roamio and all devices are talking via MoCA and performing as expected....


----------



## alanpgh

I started getting C133 error again tonight.
I have a Tivo Premiere XL.
Restarted unit from Tivo menus an things are fine now.
Running 20.3.8, latest update.
Haven't had 133 problem for a while.

I was thinking of getting an Apple Airport Express and using as a range extender. Any thoughts or experience on this idea?

I hope the service keeps working.

Please let post if anyone has a problem.

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## c133roamioerrors

I hooked up a netgear range extender to my Roamio pro's ethernet port.
I still get occasional C130 errors and they resolve themselves. The roamio also rebooted itself when it happened. but took about 20 minutes for the problem to resolve itself. The wireless connection was much worse.
I only know of one time when my xl4 got a c133 error.
I also bought a wireless Tivo adapter like I had for my xl4 but haven't tried installing it yet.


----------



## alanpgh

This link is helpful:
http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/tivo.com.html

Now we know we've seen a 133 error when Tivo was not down, so something else must be up.

Weak signal or software problems?

Tivo, or anyone, please comment.

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## CoxInPHX

alanpgh said:


> This link is helpful:
> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/tivo.com.html
> 
> Now we know we've seen a 133 error when Tivo was not down, so something else must be up.
> 
> Weak signal or software problems?
> 
> Tivo, or anyone, please comment.


That does not really help, that lookup is just for the tivo.com website, not the content servers the TiVo actually makes connections with.

For content connections, I am seeing:
208.73.181.200

For data downloads, I am seeing:
204.176.49.65 (mind.tivo.com)


----------



## caughey

If anyone is keeping track, I am encountering C133 here again, Southern Cal FiOS. They have changed the text of the error message, but otherwise the symptoms are the same as before.

New message reads:


> Temporary problem (C133)
> There is a problem with your TiVo box. But don't worry - we will have it back to normal shortly. Until then, you can continue to watch live TV or view recorded shows.


I liked the old message better.

Update: Problem had resolved itself by this morning.


----------



## SugarBowl

Error 'mindUnavailable' when trying to connect to roamio with the ios app.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## crxssi

alanpgh said:


> I started getting C133 error again tonight.


Me too.... VA


----------



## alanpgh

I'm still getting perky C133 errors relatively often.

I'm thinking of seeing is an Airport Express will help extend the range of my Time Capsule / Network.

Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## mrizzo80

What is the meaning behind the "mind" subdomain name? Acronym of something? General description of what the application(s) running behind it "do" -- as in this: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mind

I haven't seen a C133 error since last month when the service was down all night.


----------



## pshivers

alanpgh said:


> I'm still getting perky C133 errors relatively often.
> 
> I'm thinking of seeing is an Airport Express will help extend the range of my Time Capsule / Network.
> 
> Any comments are appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan


Nothing worse than a *"Perky"* Error! -lol-

Have you considered using a MoCA network setup to get a strong Internet signal to your Tivo using the existing cable coax in your house?

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-2


----------



## stonewallers

Well after not seeing a C133 in two weeks I figured it was fixed but no luck since it was back this morning. I tried a reboot which sometimes "fixes" it. The roamio went into an update so took a bit of time to reboot. I thought finally they fixed the issue and maybe even fixed the cable card issue and I'll have a full 6 tuners with all channels.

I didn't have time to check the tuner issue but sadly the 133 was back after reboot. Here's to hoping it's gone when I get home and don't have to reboot and hope... again.


----------



## reffr

I'm having the same problem on Comcast in Oregon. Out Of Home will start downloading show and then keeps "reconnecting" and then download stops. My tiros are connected via CAT6, no green switches, and internet works great. I even created a separate network for just the tivos to see if it was something else on the network causing problems. Its not. Its the tivo or the service.

I called customer support multiple times. One agent told me that OOH streaming and downloading was not supported yet and they could not help me at all. I asked him to escalate the issue and he did not. We have four tivo boxes and a mini. I've never had a bad experience with Tivo until now. 

You buy a premium product and you expect premium service. 

Please help us make this work this is the feature that prompted me to buy the Roamio.


----------



## alanpgh

Email [email protected]
If anyone has a link to he Tivo profile, please post here.
Good Luck!


----------



## tim1724

alanpgh said:


> Email [email protected]
> If anyone has a link to he Tivo profile, please post here.
> Good Luck!


She's @tivodesign (http://twitter.com/tivodesign)


----------



## alanpgh

Her Twitter and email are in her signature, here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=198507

She has been very fast at responding to me via email and twitter.


----------



## alanpgh

I added an Apple Airport Express, and set up as a range extender near my TiVo Premiere XL.
So far, so good. No C133 problems for over a day.

I will see how this holds up over the longer term. Looks promising.


----------



## HarperVision

alanpgh said:


> I added an Apple Airport Express, and set up as a range extender near my TiVo Premiere XL.
> So far, so good. No C133 problems for over a day.
> 
> I will see how this holds up over the longer term. Looks promising.


FYI, when you use extenders they're usually supposed to be setup ~half way (or a specified distance) between your main router/wifi source and the source you need it extended to, in this case your TiVo. Setting it up near the TiVo just means its going to get the same signal level received there as would the TiVo. I guess if its more sensitive and has better reception than the TiVo's wifi card you're OK, as it seems may be the case based on your report, but you'll probably still get better results putting the airport express somewhere about half way in between the wifi router and TiVo.

Just a tip, should you have any further issues. Good luck!


----------



## alanpgh

I understand what you are saying.

Apple receiver is more sensitive. And no signal drop problems on my Apple equipment anywhere in my house. So, in this case, it works, because it is Apple (Time Capsule) to Apple (Airport Express)... designed to work together. In this case it works well.

Your advice is appreciated and well taken.

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## HarperVision

Thanks for the kind reply. Glad you're all set!


----------



## c133roamioerrors

I guess it's time for me to accept that it is a flawed product and I will always get some communication errors. I never had any problems with my xl4.


----------



## alanpgh

Actually, this product has very few flaws.
All products have kinks.
I bet it will be even better with future software updates.

Any complex product release usually has a few bugs along the way.


----------



## El Maestro

Anybody getting this tonight? I'm in Syracuse, NY and have had it for about 20 minutes.


----------



## jhwpbm

El Maestro said:


> Anybody getting this tonight? I'm in Syracuse, NY and have had it for about 20 minutes.


Same here


----------



## senorgregster

El Maestro said:


> Anybody getting this tonight? I'm in Syracuse, NY and have had it for about 20 minutes.


Me too. DC.


----------



## jwbelcher

Me too - Orlando


----------



## ignitor87

Yup :-/


----------



## kdmorse

El Maestro said:


> Anybody getting this tonight? I'm in Syracuse, NY and have had it for about 20 minutes.


My Premiers have been C133'd since I got home.


----------



## dbenrosen

Getting it on my Mini connected via Moca, but my Roamio connected via the same router using Ethernet is working fine.


----------



## ThAbtO

Another C133 here on Roamio now.


----------



## eochs

both of my tivos (premiere and roamio) are c133. gotta be a problem with the service


----------



## mr_smits

El Maestro said:


> Anybody getting this tonight? I'm in Syracuse, NY and have had it for about 20 minutes.


Yes. Midwest. THANKS TIVO


----------



## khidr

Philly area - since about 8:50 tonight also down.


----------



## CallMeRich

Had it for last our in westchestet NY


----------



## alanpgh

Same in Pittsburgh. This must be a real Tivo outage.
Tivo/Margret, please comment.

Thanks!


----------



## PaperFriend

Just got error also


----------



## deaddeeds

Come'on TiVo get your act together.


----------



## AAinCal

Same here. TWC in the Los Angeles area.


----------



## jackief

Yup on both my boxes. Was going to show my visiting sister how great the TiVo was. .


----------



## aaronwt

C133 here too. Certainly nothing to do with wireless. I can still watch Netflix and my recordings and start a recording. But I couldn't create a Season Pass for the Olympics. I guess I'll need to wait until the C133 error is gone.


----------



## LynnL999

This may be a silly question but I'm getting a C133 without an explanation point. Does it make a difference -- e.g., it's them, not me?


----------



## fredct

NJ here. Same thing. My Roamio was N17 and now C133 for a while. I want to say since about 8. My Premiere joined it closer to 9.


----------



## ffitzgerald39

Also getting in the Chicago area. Can still connect to Pandora, Spotify and other Internet servives. Strange


----------



## Keen

@TivoMargaret commented on it being on their end. They're working on it.


----------



## hybucket

Just started here- in Boston. Again.
UPDATE - Came back...now back to 133.


----------



## redbeard25

Roamio C133ing in Nashville.


----------



## AAinCal

aaronwt said:


> C133 here too. Certainly nothing to do with wireless. I can still watch Netflix and my recordings and start a recording. But I couldn't create a Season Pass for the Olympics. I guess I'll need to wait until the C133 error is gone.


How are you able to get to Netflix? For me, the C133 removes all video services. I can still acess the network thorough Opera based apps and Pandora, etc. but not Netflix or Youtube.


----------



## kbmb

AAinCal said:


> How are you able to get to Netflix? For me, the C133 removes all video services. I can still acess the network thorough Opera based apps and Pandora, etc. but not Netflix or Youtube.


Access them through the Find TV, Movies and Videos option in tivo central.

BTW really weird, my Tivo Plus has the error but my Basic doesn't. Same wired network.

-Kevin


----------



## aaronwt

AAinCal said:


> How are you able to get to Netflix? For me, the C133 removes all video services. I can still acess the network thorough Opera based apps and Pandora, etc. but not Netflix or Youtube.


I don't know. Netflix and other streaming apps are still listed on my ROamio BAsic and Pro. I've only tried out Netflix though and am streaming a movie right now.

EDIT: I just backed out out of Netflix and I see that the C133 error is gone now.


----------



## grey ghost

Yep, C133 in Jackson, MS


----------



## StevesWeb

I see the TiVo service down and Netflix is working on my Roamio basic.


----------



## AAinCal

kbmb said:


> Access them through the Find TV, Movies and Videos option in tivo central.
> 
> BTW really weird, my Tivo Plus has the error but my Basic doesn't. Same wired network.
> 
> -Kevin


I get an error message referring to the C133 under both Search and Browse, so no Netflix for me there. I did reboot once the C133 started and wouldn't clear, so maybe I lost it then. Oh well, I guess there's not much to do but wait.


----------



## celtic pride

In the past few months tivo has had that C133 error code a few times after going years without ever seeing it! Anyone know why tivo has been having this problem all of a sudden?


----------



## cherrytree

C133 in Boston MA now.


----------



## wtherrell

C133 here as well Charlotte NC. New Roamio connected to ethernet /moca 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tivohud

New to Romio...

Does the C133 error prevent the wireless network connection from setting up properly? Was having a hard time setting it up yesterday, and when I finally got it connected I was getting intermittent C133 errors. Today I had C133 all evening, and when I reset the box I now cannot setup wireless again. Is it possible this issues are interrelated? 

I've got to say the way the C133 error cripples the box (I couldn't cancel a recording in progress let alone access network features) is really making me reconsider the Romio.


----------



## hybucket

Tivohud said:


> New to Romio...
> 
> Does the C133 error prevent the wireless network connection from setting up properly? Was having a hard time setting it up yesterday, and when I finally got it connected I was getting intermittent C133 errors. Today I had C133 all evening, and when I reset the box I now cannot setup wireless again. Is it possible this issues are interrelated?
> 
> I've got to say the way the C133 error cripples the box (I couldn't cancel a recording in progress let alone access network features) is really making me reconsider the Romio.


As annoying as this is, it (up to very recently) it was hardly ever an issue. If you think THIS is annoying, try the Comcast DVRs. Every time the power even burps, you lose most of the guide for days.


----------



## eherberg

Setting up the Roamio last weekend - I had issues with the C133 error also. I then thought about how my laptop has connection issues whenever anybody comes over and brings a new wireless device with them and connects to my network. Those issues go away when I reboot the router and everything reconnects to the network.

Rebooting the router ... and then rebooting the Tivo ... solved my C133 errors. Everything connected and worked just after that.


----------



## rlcarr

cherrytree said:


> C133 in Boston MA now.


Ditto. (I'm using MoCA, FWIW).

Mine specifically says:



> Temporary problem (C133)
> 
> There is a problem with your TiVo box.
> But don't worry -- we will have it back to normal shortly. Until then you can continue to watch live or recorded television.


No exclamation points. I can ping both the Roamio Pro and its embedded Stream device fine on my LAN. kmttg also talks to it fine. But I of course can't do any streaming. And I can't make the daily service connection either, so it does look like something's messed up at the TiVo mothership tonight.


----------



## krar4

First day of C133 error on my Premiere in Rockford, IL. Never had this error occur previously. Is it just a matter of waiting for TiVo to fix it?


----------



## kdmorse

Mine went away on both my Premiers about an hour ago (DC). So perhaps a fix is cascading in.


----------



## rlcarr

Just rebooted my Pro but it's still seeing the "Temporary Error (C133)". Guess I'll just have to wait until TiVo fixes whatever's wrong on their end.

So, when there's a C133, will the box at least record stuff on the To Do list? Or will it only let you watch live TV and watch previously-recorded stuff?


----------



## rlcarr

FWIW, here's what TivoMargret said on her twitter a while ago:



> TiVo Margret Schmidt ‏@tivodesign 2h
> @bijans Yes, there is something going on. We are looking into it.


----------



## Farhawk3

C133 problem here in Santa Cruz,CA also. Roamio shows error message and mini says it can't connect to the network. Also getting a C501 intermittently when I navigate to the Settings page. Still a problem @ 10pm PST. Box performance seems to be slow as well , at the moment. Presumably related to the c133 issue.

Had these two units for less than a week now. I'm not impressed. 

HD User Interface has some real issues too IMO. Thinking about bringing back the series 3 that the Roamio replaced. Was a real nosebleed transferring content from the 3 with the external drive to the Roamio too. I would think TiVo would have a process for that by now for its customers.

Hope this C133 problem does not become a recurring theme. I like Tivo a lot but it seems to be growing less reliable as a product and as a company. Not sure after all these years why they still seem to act like a small company learning how to walk. Keeping a paid service on line should be within their grasp by now, it's the core of their business model.


----------



## nooneuknow

Region/Location: Southern NV

Same on all three Roamio base models here. It's been this way for hours at this time.

Saw TiVoMargret's tweet about it before I even came here. It's always nice that rather than spending a day, and/or evening, following "TiVo Support's" useless troubleshooting scripts (in scenarios when it is actually TiVo's problem), we can get a "straight" confirmation from her, and just wait it out.

I don't feel it is right (that it is this way), but things would be far worse if we didn't have TiVoMargret available to tell us they are working on things.

I've given up on TCF as being the first place to check for issues being on TiVo's end of things... The best I can expect is too see more reports of issues, and references/links to her tweets.

I've finally just accepted that I need to keep another browser tab open to view her twitter feed (rather than complaining about her declining participation within TCF, and lack of real-time updates on critical issues like these within TCF)...

.


----------



## alanpgh

Looks like a big outage. Been down for 4+ hours.

This is one way to "sort of" check: (per other TiVo users)
http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/tivo.com.html


----------



## nooneuknow

alanpgh said:


> Looks like a big outage. Been down for 4+ hours.
> 
> This is one way to "sort of" check: (per other TiVo users)
> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/tivo.com.html


As others already have pointed out, the status of the tivo.com website is irrelevant to the servers that provide the actual TiVo service.

All it does (right now, for example) is tell people *"Tivo.com is UP and reachable. The website is probably down just for you..."*


----------



## apwelsh

alanpgh said:


> Looks like a big outage. Been down for 4+ hours.
> 
> This is one way to "sort of" check: (per other TiVo users)
> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/tivo.com.html


This only checks that the tivo.com website is up. which it is...


----------



## apwelsh

So I have noticed this since 2/4 or 2/5 (can't remember now), and today I tried testing all kinds of things. I removed IPv6 from my router, I rebooted all my hardware. C133 remains. I tried network diagnostics, and all tests passed, and all ports and DNS tests passed.

I discovered I could (and have been) connect to the TiVo Service to download guid updates, etc, but still C133 error. 

This I noticed the only thing I don't have is the "What to watch now" menu option which is grey. By selecting it sometimes the C133 error message appears as a pop-up message, but sometimes the C133 message goes away, and it starts searching for the list of shows and then errors with a different number. Most it just errors with C133.

Find Tv Show also is greyed out, and does not work.

I do not have NetFlix so I cannot confirm if that is an issue.

This seems to be a service outage, or a DNS error (DNS Spoofing attack maybe?). My guess is the services on Tivo's network are just down. Perhaps if we had to actual DNS and port of the services we could monitor it too with "isitdownrightnow.com"


----------



## Dan203

I swear this always happens when I'm setting something up! Last time it happened right in the middle of repeating Guided Setup for a new lineup, this time it's happening as I'm trying to copy all the shows from my wife'a XL4 to her new Roamio. And again I stupidly thought I was having a network problem so I spent like an hour troubleshooting it before coming here to see if it was a system outage.

WTF TiVo? Why is this happening so frequently?


----------



## rgr

Still getting C133. I keep hoping that these outages will encourage them to decouple normal box operation from requiring a live connection.


----------



## nooneuknow

Dan203 said:


> I swear this always happens when I'm setting something up! Last time it happened right in the middle of repeating Guided Setup for a new lineup, this time it's happening as I'm trying to copy all the shows from my wife'a XL4 to her new Roamio. And again I stupidly thought I was having a network problem so I spent like an hour troubleshooting it before coming here to see if it was a system outage.
> 
> WTF TiVo? Why is this happening so frequently?


If I had the luck/timing you do, I'd be mad as hell... I recall many of the former outages being timed to a major configuration change for you.

It's back up for me (came up right as I made my last post on the subject).

TiVo either needs to get their act together, or re-code for less internet service dependency. Although, I guess both the former and latter would be best for those at the end-user side...

From what I've gathered, using both by my own raw/hex disk editors, and what others have contributed, there seems to be nothing really stopping TiVo from keeping more data cached locally, rather than in the cloud. The partitions for the data are still on the disk, just empty placeholders at this point.

All this examining of the Roamio's makeup made me believe TiVo was headed the way of a cloud-DVR service, and possibly stop making the hardware, long before the subject-to-interpretation "announcement" was made...

I sometimes wish the whole internet would go gown for a few days, just to show people how ridiculous cloud-anything is, especially for things like home security services...

I never did lose the ability to make scheduled/manual TiVo Service connections during this outage. All units downloaded data and completed without error. In most cases I'm aware of, to date, scheduled/manual service connections were unable to complete (or even initiate, in some cases). This time seemed like only the real-time connection was down...

YMMV with what anybody else experienced, since these "outages" seem to vary from regional to national, with different regions sometimes having more functionality than others do when things go wrong on TiVo's end of the matter...


----------



## ThAbtO

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/mind.tivo.com.html

This is what the C133 is coming from.


----------



## alanpgh

Still Down in Pittsburgh, PA.

TiVo, when do you estimate the service will be back online?

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## Xabanero

Have never seen the C133 error until tonight. TWC Austin, TX Roamio Plus 2 months ownership. It looks like half my tuners are down as well.


----------



## SnakeEyes

Might this be why I got an n17 error right at the first connection step of guided setup tonight for my new roamio?


----------



## alanpgh

TiVo Margret Schmidt &#8207;@tivodesign just posted the following on Twitter 15 min. ago:
"It is working for the vast majority, but some are still impacted. (Including one of my boxes!) We're working on it. Sorry."


----------



## ThAbtO

Twitter said:


> TiVo: A C133 error may have appeared due to a production update. We apologize for any inconvenience this caused and are working to restore service


----------



## kucharsk

C133 here in CO as well, and mind.tivo.com is still down.

The bad thing is it takes a minute or two for it to time out before it will show you your Now Playing shows because it wants to populate the Discovery bar.

Of course it won't let you change what the bar shows until it connects to the service (sigh.)


----------



## ThAbtO

nooneuknow said:


> Helpful hint:
> 
> Remove the .html when using the above site.
> 
> Like this: http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/mind.tivo.com
> 
> This gets you a check of the desired "mind.tivo.com" server, as opposed to possibly getting redirected to just "tivo.com".
> 
> The .html gets added to the url once the results are available. Including it for your own checks may cause a redirect.


That gives an error 404.


----------



## Dan203

Still not working right for me. Can not connect to any of my TiVos via the iPad app.


----------



## rlcarr

Seems to be fixed here in Boston.


----------



## El Maestro

Back up this morning in Upstate NY.


----------



## morac

ThAbtO said:


> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/mind.tivo.com.html This is what the C133 is coming from.


That's not particularly useful either since mind.tivo.com responds to pings and requests, but there are back end account errors.

The last two times this happened it was recommended that TiVo set up a status page, which Margret agreed to. Said page still doesn't exist.


----------



## jimmypowder

ThAbtO said:


>


Does anyone else get the feeling that the roamio software,network infrastructure is still in beta?


----------



## mlsnyc

Seemed to be back up in NYC at least since around 7:45am


----------



## nooneuknow

ThAbtO said:


> That gives an error 404.


I redacted that post, because that is (now) the case.

It *did* work for me (several times), but now, no matter what I do, every time I try to include the site to test (mind.tivo.com) within the url (with, or without, the .html at the end) the results are either an error 404, or it redirects to just checking "tivo.com".

The ONLY reliable/repeatable way I could get the results for the site I want is to check (at this time, after much trial and error), is a two-step method:

1. http://www.isitdownrightnow.com

2. Then use the url box on the site to enter "mind.tivo.com".

Since I have autocomplete on, it remembers that I checked any site I type into that box, and I can quickly get the results.

Copying the resulting url (with the /mind.tivo.com.html at the end) and posting it here will usually result (in my experience) a redirect to just checking "tivo.com". Knocking off the ".html" seems to be ill-advised (now).

I'm sure that how it works (or doesn't) varies by browser and browser settings.

I feel the two-step way I just outlined should work for any browser and almost any configuration. YMMV, of course...

BTW: Regardless of the testing site's still "down" status for mind.tivo.com, I'm still up here, and have been since the last post I made stating I was back up. Good luck to everybody still having problems.


----------



## BlackBetty

Figures last night I try and setup brand new Roamio and mini and was getting N17 and or N18 error along with C133. I thought I had screwed something up with my moca network. Arghhh talk about frustrating timing for TiVo servers to go wacky.


----------



## alanpgh

Servers going down does not happen very often in my experience.
You had bad luck that this happened during set up of new TiVo.

The servers seem to be back online today.

Good Luck!


----------



## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> ............
> 
> All this examining of the Roamio's makeup made me believe TiVo was headed the way of a cloud-DVR service, and possibly stop making the hardware, long before the subject-to-interpretation "announcement" was made...
> 
> I sometimes wish the whole internet would go gown for a few days, just to show people how ridiculous cloud-anything is, especially for things like home security services.........


I think I'm starting to agree. A good example may be how we won the first gulf war so quickly and easily. Everyone was awed by Saddam's air defenses BEFORE the air war started, but then when it did start we totally kicked their butts almost overnight because they centralized their command of the defensive AAA batteries and missiles, making them totally dependent on it. It was like a wheel with the command center which made all the decisions and data collection at the hub and the AAA/missile sites out at the spokes. All we did was take out the hubs and crippled the whole shebang! That's why all you saw on CNN was them wildly shooting in the air like lost puppies while we surgically destroyed their defenses!

Cloud DVRs........I guess be careful what we wish for! 

P.S. - I could've said that's how the Republic and Naboo won against the droids in Star Wars Phantom Menace, but then I would've shown too much of my geek side, haha!


----------



## ort

I also had problems with this last night.

Part of me is happy it was something on their end and another part of me finds that disconcerting.

I was having these problems on my Premiere as well, and it turns out it was their fault. Now it's more of this poop?

Annoying.


----------



## Bierboy

jimmypowder said:


> Does anyone else get the feeling that the roamio software,network infrastructure is still in beta?


This is NOT limited to Roamio; Premieres are also affected...


----------



## zalusky

I kind of wonder if it has to do with Amazon since the Tivo service lives in their cloud infrastructure.


----------



## Tivohud

Service was working again for me late last night and it appears that the networking issues I've been having are on TiVo's end and not on my network. I hope this issue is not a frequent occurrence.


----------



## alanpgh

In my experience, this is not frequent.
But, you might see a C133 error if you use Wi-Fi and have was weak signal level.
I solved this by adding a Wi-Fi Range Extender.
Or, if feasible, connect directly to your router by Ethernet cable.


----------



## Bierboy

alanpgh said:


> In my experience, this is not frequent.
> But, _*you might see a C133 error if you use Wi-Fi *_and have was weak signal level.
> I solved this by adding a Wi-Fi Range Extender.
> Or, if feasible, connect directly to your router by Ethernet cable.


That makes no difference; I'm hardwired to my router, and I still see this error...


----------



## HarperVision

Bierboy said:


> That makes no difference; I'm hardwired to my router, and I still see this error...


He means you may see it more often than when tivo's own servers are down because with a weak or intermittent wifi signal you may also get this error.


----------



## NorthAlabama

why would tivo assign the same error message for a service or production server outage _and_ a local network problem? this makes no sense to me.


----------



## kdmorse

NorthAlabama said:


> why would tivo assign the same error message for a service or production server outage _and_ a local network problem? this makes no sense to me.


Because the error is "I can't talk to the mothership". It doesn't really know why.

It could be because the mothership isn't talking. It could be because the mothership isn't talking to you. It could be because your ISP's peering point is out. It could be because your internet is out. It could be because your wireless dropped.


----------



## moonscape

Set up my new Roamio Pro and all seemed to be going smoothly, then the C133 error, after an update, having set up channels, guide data thru 2/20 (fast! - this used to take hours).

I'm wireless so will probably go MoCA (running wired too complicated/problematic), but in the interim, I'm assuming the C133 means nothing will record? The unpredictablility of this means losing recordings or keeping my existing Tivos as backups! From this thread it seems it's a spotty but chronic issue


----------



## mattack

I wish someone would get fired for these huge server mishaps.


----------



## mattack

krar4 said:


> First day of C133 error on my Premiere in Rockford, IL. Never had this error occur previously. Is it just a matter of waiting for TiVo to fix it?


Just to be clear -- yes, these widespread issues have been problems on Tivo's end.

UNFORTUNATELY, you can/do get similar problems if you have general networking issues.. e.g. loose Ethernet plugs, flaky WiFi network, etc..

If you're totally disconnected, the Tivo tells you it can't connect to the network (or that an ethernet cable is unplugged).. THEN, after you fix it (or if it's a slightly loose cable!), it'll give you the C133 error.. and usually figure it out yourself.

So unfortunately the first thing I do often is go wiggle on the ethernet plugs on the Tivo(s) or the switch, since my laptop cable often pulls the switch a bit.


----------



## Dan203

BlackBetty said:


> Figures last night I try and setup brand new Roamio and mini and was getting N17 and or N18 error along with C133. I thought I had screwed something up with my moca network. Arghhh talk about frustrating timing for TiVo servers to go wacky.


Doing the same thing. I wasted like an hour and a half screwing with my network trying to fix it. Should have known.


----------



## crxssi

mattack said:


> I wish someone would get fired for these huge server mishaps.


Server mishaps happen. Someone should be fired for designing it to be ANNOYING and having unnecessary limitations when servers go down or flaky.


----------



## JeffKusnitz

kdmorse said:


> Because the error is "I can't talk to the mothership". It doesn't really know why.
> 
> It could be because the mothership isn't talking. It could be because the mothership isn't talking to you. It could be because your ISP's peering point is out. It could be because your internet is out. It could be because your wireless dropped.


But all of the above are detectable. You can't get to the mothership - can you get to the gateway address (probably the router, maybe 192.168.0.1)? You can get there, great, so your TiVo and your home network "work." Can you get to some other arbitrary site (a DNS perhaps, or maybe even just tivo.com)? No? Then it's your Internet connection. But if you can, then odds are good that the TiVo service you need to talk to is down.

It is possible to write a robust web application that does more than just dies at the first sign of trouble. It happens that Roamio, in this case is not currently said robust web application.


----------



## alanpgh

Am I missing something or just lucky?

Except for last night's outage, solid as a rock here in Pittsburgh on Comcast.

Solid as a rock only after installing an Apple Airport Express, set up as a Range Extender. This made a day and night difference for me.
I suspect that the Airport Express has a better / more sensitive / up-to-date receiver than the Tivo Premiere XL.

Thanks to suggestions on this forum, I have been able to solve all problems.

I'm sure there will be other problems in the future. Between Tivo updates and support and all of you on this forum, we will keep our Tivos running better than ever.

Compared to regular cable boxes, there's still nothing like Tivo.


----------



## alanpgh

I agree that the software is not as robust as it could be.

Hope Tivo will make these types of obvious (and some not so obvious) improvements / updates over time.

All it takes is a few experienced system and software engineers. Plus a well designed / robust architecture and development system within Tivo.


----------



## slowbiscuit

LOL, been using Tivos long? My guess is no because if you have you'd realize that pretty much everything they do is half-baked.


----------



## alanpgh

Wrong assumption.

Been using Tivo's since Series 1.

I will admit I can't just call the cable company when there is a problem, but over the long term very few problems with Tivo products.


----------



## siratfus

bdspilot said:


> I have had this error many times since the last software update about 10 days ago. My internet is fine and I can connect to my other Tivo so my connections are good. Is this just a Tivo Server Prob? I am hard wired to a non green switch.
> 
> thanks


For me, it's been about distance or interference. My Roamio is in my upstairs masters. When I had the router in my upstairs spare bedroom, I never had the c133. When I moved it to the garage, I started getting it. I moved it back to the spare bedroom, and I'm not getting it anymore.


----------



## Nailz

Hmm, Is there a guaranteed uptime in the Tivo service service agreement? Sounds like DirecTV, which for me goes out everytime it rains.

Curtis


----------



## lessd

Nailz said:


> Hmm, Is there a guaranteed uptime in the Tivo service service agreement? Sounds like DirecTV, which for me goes out everytime it rains.
> 
> Curtis


My cable goes out when a tree falls on the cable line, this (and rain problems) are much different problems than making part (non optional) of the Roamio so dependent on the internet, TiVo should have a setting for only guide data not the rest of the internet connected stuff. TiVo must have an ongoing expense in the *on all the time *internet connection, can't do that for free.


----------



## nooneuknow

Here we go again!



andyf said:


> http://status.tivo.com is showing a partial outage on core services. They're calling a minor outage ... seems pretty major to me.





nooneuknow said:


> A lot of good this did me...
> 
> All three just got the update, lost the real-time connection, bare-bones functionality, can't reboot since they are recording, can't watch because the screen keeps blacking out (sound too), and the only way I can get anything to show is by switching to another HDMI port and back, only to go black again. The HDUI Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, Play, Play sequence won't even get them back up without jumping between HDMI inputs...
> 
> KMTTG just locks-up, but my network is working fine for all non-TiVo devices.
> 
> I don't have high hopes for what I'll see when they can reboot and update. Hopefully I'll at least be able to do something after they can install the update. Belly-Up bricked on all three, and can't even verify they actually are recording as the panel lights indicate.
> 
> I guess I have live by the comment I made about how TiVo users should know that software updates are "Beta Testing & Field Trials Part 2" and that's what we ought to know by now if we've been TiVo users for a significant amount of time.
> 
> Force-feed all three an update at the exact same time, during prime-time, throwing all into C133 lockdown mode... WTH TiVo? :down: :down: :down:


----------



## apwelsh

siratfus said:


> For me, it's been about distance or interference. My Roamio is in my upstairs masters. When I had the router in my upstairs spare bedroom, I never had the c133. When I moved it to the garage, I started getting it. I moved it back to the spare bedroom, and I'm not getting it anymore.


What you are talking about is just a poor wifi solution. The roamio wifi is junk. We have iPhones and iPads with great signal but the roamio on wifi at the same spot can't maintain a quality signal. This is not surprising. Our tv and blueray have the same issues. The antennas are weak and the signal power is low.

Just use the MOCA solution and that problem goes away. The issue most people complain about is when the unit sees the internet and all other units but TiVo is reporting that the services are down. This prevents all streaming services from working since they cannot phone home to TiVo to start the streaming app.


----------



## GmanTiVo

and i didn't search the forums yet, but in a short sentence can someone tell me why do the Roamios need to have a continious connection with TiVo servers?

My old S3 connected once or twice daily and functioned properly even without internet access (to TiVo servers). 

Does this mean if I were to lose connectivity wit TiVo servers, for whatever reason, I cannot view cable channels/programming or I just lose things like YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, etc ?

Thank you


----------



## MLM1

GmanTiVo said:


> and i didn't search the forums yet, but in a short sentence can someone tell me why do the Roamios need to have a continious connection with TiVo servers?
> 
> My old S3 connected once or twice daily and functioned properly even without internet access (to TiVo servers).
> 
> Does this mean if I were to lose connectivity wit TiVo servers, for whatever reason, I cannot view cable channels/programming or I just lose things like YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, etc ?
> 
> Thank you


Based on what I experienced last night during the C133 issues, the Roamio has real problems when the TiVo Core Services are down. I was able to watch live TV and recording but pressing the TiVo button made the screen go black and unresponsive for about 20 seconds. Other weird things happened too. Others have commented on this as well if you search a bit. I think part of the problem was the Roamio had a network connection so it was trying to communicate but not receiving a response from TiVo and freezing until a timeout occurred. It was recording the whole time, though.

I have kept a regular cable box as a backup so we can still watch live TV because I don't trust that my TiVo will always be working. When it works it is great but it is too dependent on the mothership for every little function.


----------



## CrispyCritter

GmanTiVo said:


> and i didn't search the forums yet, but in a short sentence can someone tell me why do the Roamios need to have a continious connection with TiVo servers?
> 
> My old S3 connected once or twice daily and functioned properly even without internet access (to TiVo servers).
> 
> Does this mean if I were to lose connectivity wit TiVo servers, for whatever reason, I cannot view cable channels/programming or I just lose things like YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, etc ?


Watching live-tv and recording shouldn't be affected, as long as you're not changing things. Amazon will be affected; I think that Netflix and YouTube will depend on the type of network problem (sometimes affected, most times not?)

The main problem is doing anything with the TiVo HDUI menu system. Basically every icon you see (for a show, for instance) requires a network access. The Discovery Bar, which changes to show similar shows to what's on the screen, seems to be mostly done via network, as well as requiring many icons. Some things get cached; others aren't. I did a packet dump of the network traffic a year ago and most menu movements (simple down-arrow) in "Now Playing" required 5-7 accesses of the network (several DNS requests, possible icon downloading).

In addition, your TiVo is constantly checking to see if there is something waiting to be downloaded to it (eg, Amazon order, web video, on-line request to record something or to change season pass.) A year ago, that checking was done by sending essentially a text message every 10 seconds over the network; I haven't checked to see if that changed with the Roamio.


----------



## nooneuknow

GmanTiVo said:


> and i didn't search the forums yet, but in a short sentence can someone tell me why do the Roamios need to have a continious connection with TiVo servers?
> 
> My old S3 connected once or twice daily and functioned properly even without internet access (to TiVo servers).
> 
> Does this mean if I were to lose connectivity wit TiVo servers, for whatever reason, I cannot view cable channels/programming or I just lose things like YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, etc ?
> 
> Thank you


On a positive note, the release notes announcement for this Spring Update 20.4.1 list:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10062977#post10062977

Include this:

- VOD and apps can now be launched in C133 mode

As long as the next C133 after the update show any improvement in the OTT (Over The Top) apps functionality, I see it as a step in the right direction.

I was just unlucky enough that all my boxes downloaded the update at the same time, then a C133 knocked them into a lockdown, plus I couldn't see/hear A/V output on my TVs, and I could just hope that once the recording lights stopped, and I could reboot them, the recordings would be there.

They were. I was just unlucky in the timing of it (prime-time), and had some high-anxiety until I could let the update fully install on the reboot. The C133 was resolved at nearly the same moment the recordings finished, so I could view the menus and everything, as I used the menus to reboot, rather than letting them sit until 2AM, when the update would install without interaction.

I've spotted a few minor annoyances, but nothing that has me gnashing my teeth.

I have some faith that TiVo will learn from this incident. On the other hand, I seem to be the only one who couldn't watch Live TV or view recordings. I'd have noticed any other reports. OTOH, some might not have been using theirs and might not have noticed what I did. Unless I'm sleeping, or away, I tend to keep my TVs on, with CNN or a music channel on.


----------



## flar

I have had my Pro since September or so and didn't have many network problems until the past couple of weeks, but then again I've been using the network features more lately.

However, in the past couple of weeks I've been seeing frequent C13x errors saying that my network is down. The odd thing is that the network is working fine from all of my other devices, including the devices in my AV cabinet that get their internet *through* the TiVo (using the TiVo in ethernet+MoCa mode to get the network to the devices in the cabinet). So, the TiVo definitely has internet connectivity to the point where it can share it with the rest of the devices in the cabinet, but not for its own uses.

I am guessing this is due to not being able to access the TiVo servers as opposed to any general network outage, judging from the couple of pages of this thread that I browsed. If that is so, then I would think that we would all see the C13x errors around the same time as each other and that any extra errors on someone's part would be their own network's issues?

The question I have is that most people are saying that "other than that one outage the other night, I never see the network errors", but I am seeing them every other time I turn on the Roamio over the past few weeks. If it was the TiVo servers, then wouldn't more people be seeing them more often? If it was my internal network then wouldn't the other devices in my cabinet also be having network errors because they get their internet from the Roamio?

Also note that my Mini seems to have trouble seeing the Roamio when it is in its "C13x" mode. I'm guessing that part is normal if the Roamio cannot contact the mothership? Or is this saying that the Roamio isn't even able to access the LAN (even though other devices can access the LAN through it)?


----------



## GmanTiVo

Thank you for the explainatins, much appreciated. :up:


----------



## apwelsh

MLM1 said:


> I was able to watch live TV and recording but pressing the TiVo button made the screen go black and unresponsive for about 20 seconds..


I have a Premier 4, a Roamio, and Mini. I don't notice a difference in service issues between them, except when the Roamio has wifi issues.

Regarding the Black Screen when pressing the TiVo button on the remote, I get this on all my units. If I go back to live TV then back into the TiVo menu it works fine. Very annoying, but not related to the C133 error. It's some glitch in the last update I received. All units worked fine then one day they all started doing this, quite frequently, and independent of any C13x errors.


----------



## alanpgh

This is a summary of an old post I made:

To solve 95+% of "Network Errors" problems, I added an Apple airport Express to boost the Wi-Fi signal near my Tivo Premiere.

This worked for me.

Good Luck!

Alan


----------



## ndegraff69

I just wanted to see if there had been a solution to the C133 error message. I've been getting the message since I purchased my tivo roamio in January. On and off, but more lately. I keep talking with the chat/phone support and they are no help. Suggestions were to restart tivo (done) and restart router. Tried and not working. This is really an annoying problem. I'd return the tivo but I think I'm passed the return date. The support person also suggested connecting the tivo to the router directly. That defeats the whole purpose of having wireless. Really annoyed. If you found a solution, I would appreciate the steps taken.


----------



## Jackamus

Normally the C133 error is TiVo issue with their service and not your box. You can reboot but if it doesn't go away after a reboot, you'll have to wait until the problem is fixed by TiVo.


----------



## pgoelz

Just as a data point..... I have not had a single C133 (or ANY error, for that matter) since the "bad old days" 3-4 months ago. If it makes a difference, I am hardwired.... the Tivo sits next to the router. Never tried WiFi. 

If no one else is reporting C133 errors, there may indeed be something amiss in your network or with your ISP. Or maybe there is more than one server farm and I am using a good one? 

Paul


----------



## Jackamus

pgoelz said:


> Just as a data point..... I have not had a single C133 (or ANY error, for that matter) since the "bad old days" 3-4 months ago. If it makes a difference, I am hardwired.... the Tivo sits next to the router. Never tried WiFi.
> 
> If no one else is reporting C133 errors, there may indeed be something amiss in your network or with your ISP. Or maybe there is more than one server farm and I am using a good one?
> 
> Paul


^^^^ Same here ^^^^


----------



## KevinG

Jackamus said:


> Normally the C133 error is TiVo issue with their service and not your box.


Can't agree with this.

C133 just means that the tivo can't speak to the Tivo server that it expects to be able to speak to.

In this user's case, I'd be MUCH more inclined to believe that it is his home (wireless) network that is causing the problem, since the Tivo servers seem to have been pretty stable recently (notice the lack of posts on this thread).


----------



## HarperVision

It could also possibly be an issue with his wifi card on his TiVo. Only way to really tell is to either try another TiVo, hard wire it or try an Ethernet style wifi adapter, like the TiVo N adapters, etc.


----------



## pshivers

Sounds like you have a less than stellar wireless signal to your Tivo. Perhaps using a MOCA solution instead of using wireless.? This will give the added benefit of Ethernet in the same room as your TiVo for other devices...


----------



## andyf

Check on http://status.tivo.com . This will give you the state of TiVo's servers. If they're all green then the problem is likely local.


----------



## ndegraff69

Thanks for the input from everyone. Another question. Hard wiring is not an option and from reading doesn't look like a Moca would work either b/c I live in a condo building. Could wireless adapter solve problem? Hate to pay $80 for tivo adapter and doesn't solve problem. I'm a little out of my depth with this stuff.


----------



## moonscape

ndegraff69 said:


> doesn't look like a Moca would work either b/c I live in a condo building.


Why wouldn't MoCa work for your condo? I'm not techie (at all!) but the cable enters your unit somewhere and a filter would be put in place there isolating it, no? I'm not clear on the difference between that and a SFR.


----------



## ringjim

ndegraff69 said:


> I just wanted to see if there had been a solution to the C133 error message. I've been getting the message since I purchased my tivo roamio in January. On and off, but more lately. I keep talking with the chat/phone support and they are no help. Suggestions were to restart tivo (done) and restart router. Tried and not working. This is really an annoying problem. I'd return the tivo but I think I'm passed the return date. The support person also suggested connecting the tivo to the router directly. That defeats the whole purpose of having wireless. Really annoyed. If you found a solution, I would appreciate the steps taken.


My plans to upgrade all 3 of my TiVo's to Roamio's (I currently have Premier and 2 Series 2's).. has come to a screaching halt. With the C133 errors I've been receiving on a regular basis have made me rethink TiVo products in entirety now. Guess I'll have to see if there is an alternative option since TiVo doesn't seem to care any longer. They are losing market share and for good reason. Very sad to see a great company revert to a Comcast level of service.


----------



## Jackamus

ringjim said:


> My plans to upgrade all 3 of my TiVo's to Roamio's (I currently have Premier and 2 Series 2's).. has come to a screaching halt. With the C133 errors I've been receiving on a regular basis have made me rethink TiVo products in entirety now. Guess I'll have to see if there is an alternative option since TiVo doesn't seem to care any longer. They are losing market share and for good reason. Very sad to see a great company revert to a Comcast level of service.


Interesting. It's been quite a while since I have had any issues like that. It's been a few months I would say Usually the problem is resolved quickly. I will agree with you in part on their customer service.. But I'd rather have TiVo.


----------



## alanpgh

My solution was simple. Bought an a Apple Express and used as range extender. No more problems. And set output to 720.
Ask Margret from Tivo.


----------



## CrispyCritter

ringjim said:


> My plans to upgrade all 3 of my TiVo's to Roamio's (I currently have Premier and 2 Series 2's).. has come to a screaching halt. With the C133 errors I've been receiving on a regular basis have made me rethink TiVo products in entirety now. Guess I'll have to see if there is an alternative option since TiVo doesn't seem to care any longer. They are losing market share and for good reason. Very sad to see a great company revert to a Comcast level of service.


If you are seeing C133 errors on a regular basis, then you have problems with your network hardware (which might include network hardware within the TiVo, but probably not since those problems are easy to see). I'm not sure why you blame TiVo for not debugging your network.


----------



## pshivers

Perhaps it would be better if you went with some other solution besides Tivo...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## alanpgh

Tivo is a great solution. You just have to find the fixes and all will work well after that!


----------



## morac

I'm getting blue spinning circles on my TiVos currently and the iOS app is complaining of network errors (tried Wifi and LTE). 

Tivo's status page says everything is up and running, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Edit: The Tivos seem to be working now, still getting blue circles, but they go away in about 5 seconds. iOS app still fails to log in though.

Edit 2: and the box won't load program info now so, for example, selecting an item in the To Do list shows a spinning blue circle and goes back to the To Do list.


----------



## MrDell

I am having the same proble right now also....must be a problem with their servers


----------



## das335

Also seeing the spinning blue circles on my Roamio and Premeire. As mentioned earlier in this thread, they clear after about 5 seconds.


----------



## El Maestro

Same issues here. Syracuse, NY, Roamio Pro on Fios. Blue circles and app trouble...

I also sometimes get at C501 when using the what to watch now feature tonight.


----------



## morac

Seems to be working intermittently, so I agree it's server problems, which makes me wonder why http://status.tivo.com is showing everything is operational.

Comcast in NJ


----------



## El Maestro

Yeah that's weird. The app keeps telling me I have incorrect user name or password, but I know they're right. Oddly, I can sign into my account at tivo.com no problem.


----------



## keenanSR

Seeing the blue circles as well, and kmttg is not functioning properly either although I'm unsure if it's related.


----------



## MrDell

El Maestro said:


> Yeah that's weird. The app keeps telling me I have incorrect user name or password, but I know they're right. Oddly, I can sign into my account at tivo.com no problem.


That's exactly what's happening to me! Apps on my two tablets are behaving the same! I hope all my scheduled recordings will be OK.... This is the start of the new season!!!


----------



## morac

Made it through to TiVo phone support and they told me one of their servers decided to run an update about an hour ago instead of earlier in the day like they normall do. That is slowing things down so anyone on that server will experience intermittent issues as the box is slow to respond. 

He also told me he doesn't know why they bother having a status.tivo.com site since it's rarely accurate. 

Anyway, I managed to log in to the Tivo app, though it took a lot of tries. I'm assuming that whenever their servers finish doing whatever it is they are doing, things will return to normal.


----------



## MrDell

morac said:


> Made it through to TiVo phone support and they told me one of their servers decided to run an update about an hour ago instead of earlier in the day like they normall do. That is slowing things down so anyone on that server will experience intermittent issues as the box is slow to respond.
> 
> I managed to log in to the Tivo app, though it took a lot of tries. I'm assuming that whenever their servers finish doing whatever it is they are doing, things will return to normal.


Thank you for the update! Hopefully it won't be too much longer....


----------



## tbb1226

El Maestro said:


> Yeah that's weird. The app keeps telling me I have incorrect user name or password, but I know they're right. Oddly, I can sign into my account at tivo.com no problem.


Same for me in Michigan. I have both the iOS and Android TiVo apps, and I am intermittently able to connect with my two TiVo boxes, but each time I do, eventually I get the "box not responding" message and then the "invalid password" notice.


----------



## morac

MrDell said:


> That's exactly what's happening to me! Apps on my two tablets are behaving the same! I hope all my scheduled recordings will be OK.... This is the start of the new season!!!


Existing season passes and recordings should be fine. If you are trying to schedule one now though, you'll likely run into issues.


----------



## Mr Tony

yeah cant set Season passes right now
having issues adding time to existing timers but setting one time timers are fine

Trying to set up SP for the new shows on AntennaTV that start tomorrow 

When I tried to connect to do an update it gave me a "unexplained error" as to why it failed. Now I know


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Recently, like others, I've gotten blue circles when trying to access a show's info page (and subsequently playing it). When that happened I just hit the Play button from My Shows to skip the page entirely.

Tonight I can't play my recordings at all. Even hitting Play from My Shows causes blue circles for a while, then times out. Nothing happens.

Yay. This perpetual cloud integration works swimmingly. :down:


----------



## jwbelcher

Just completed watching a show and chose to delete, now I'm stuck staring at a black screen.... I think I'm going to disconnect my box from the internet, which hopefully will have less issues than this....


----------



## jwbelcher

jwbelcher said:


> Just completed watching a show and chose to delete, now I'm stuck staring at a black screen.... I think I'm going to disconnect my box from the internet, which hopefully will have less issues than this....


On the upside unplugging released my black screen and sped up navigation


----------



## Bytez

Seeing the blue spinning circle as well.


----------



## mandms7

Both my Premiere and Roamio Plus are impacted by this issue. If you try to utilize the "What to Watch Now" function, I receive a "There was an unexpected problem. (C501)" message.


----------



## MrDell

mandms7 said:


> Both my Premiere and Roamio Plus are impacted by this issue. If you try to utilize the "What to Watch Now" function, I receive a "There was an unexpected problem. (C501)" message.


I have both Premiere and Roamio and the same is happening to me...very frustrating!


----------



## leitzsout

Outages happen and are frustrating; but, the ongoing lack of communication and transparency is maddening! That's the easy fix.


----------



## morac

Seems to be working much better now.


----------



## El Maestro

Yep, I think we might be all good. All services and the app are working.


----------



## RoyK

I've had the spinning circle problem on three occasions since I moved from TiVo HD to Romeo a week and a half ago. When I try to select and play a recording that exists on my device there is absolutely no valid reason, in my humble opinion, for the software to effectively tell me "stand by - your request is less important than my need to contact the mothership so you need to wait and watch this nice blue spinning circle for the better part of a minute while I bring up some info for the show that you have already decided to watch."

If that is the paradigm that the Romeo software uses -- that all UI is ignored when the software attempts to contact home then somebody needs to do some serious rethinking/recoding.


----------



## wmhjr

morac said:


> Seems to be working intermittently, so I agree it's server problems, which makes me wonder why http://status.tivo.com is showing everything is operational.
> 
> Comcast in NJ




Wonder why status.tivo.com is showing everything as operational?!?!?!?

I wonder why it exists. It's worthless in my experience.


----------



## wmhjr

mandms7 said:


> Both my Premiere and Roamio Plus are impacted by this issue. If you try to utilize the "What to Watch Now" function, I receive a "There was an unexpected problem. (C501)" message.


This has been happening every once in a while for me too, though last night it was constant. Even trying to play content recorded on the Roamio Pro I was on, I'd get the spinning blue circle for sometimes a couple minutes and then finally it would start to play. I had not read anything here last night, so first thing this morning, I shut everything down including my entire network, and brought everything up fresh. No reason why that would be necessary other than experience with Tivos being really flaky from a network perspective. And I use static IPs on all my Tivos, with that IP range excluded from DHCP, so there should be zero network issues. All hardwired CAT6.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

RoyK said:


> When I try to select and play a recording that exists on my device there is absolutely no valid reason, in my humble opinion, for the software to effectively tell me "stand by - your request is less important than my need to contact the mothership so you need to wait and watch this nice blue spinning circle for the better part of a minute while I bring up some info for the show that you have already decided to watch."


While I agree it's a nuisance, in my experience you can always play the program...it's just getting the additional information that causes the delay. IOW, if you hit "play" instead of "enter," it will function.

And the server problems seem to be a recent, fairly short-term thing...I got my Roamio a month or two ago, and yesterday was the first time I saw that. So hopefully it's just a momentary glitch and not a regular occurrence.


----------



## RoyK

Rob Helmerichs said:


> While I agree it's a nuisance, in my experience you can always play the program...it's just getting the additional information that causes the delay. IOW, if you hit "play" instead of "enter," it will function.
> 
> And the server problems seem to be a recent, fairly short-term thing...I got my Roamio a month or two ago, and yesterday was the first time I saw that. So hopefully it's just a momentary glitch and not a regular occurrence.


Perhaps. But still there is no reason to hang that long. Timing out in a second or two would make sense. If a connection isn't made in that time it's reasonable to assume that there is a problem. Why hang everything up? Simply show a default message and go on.


----------



## morac

wmhjr said:


> Wonder why status.tivo.com is showing everything as operational?!?!?!?
> 
> I wonder why it exists. It's worthless in my experience.


Well you have something in common with the TiVo phone support person I spoke to yesterday. He too wondered what was the point of having a status page if it's never updated.

Actually it was added because a number of people complained that TiVo didn't have a status page to document when there were server problems. The assumption was that if one was added, it would actually be accurate. Based on what I've seen from Apple and Sony, inaccurate status pages are par for the course though.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

leitzsout said:


> Outages happen and are frustrating; but, the ongoing lack of communication and transparency is maddening! That's the easy fix.


+1

TiVo needs to say what causes the spinning blue circle described in this thread, whether it is a local problem with my TiVo or a problem with the TiVo "cloud".

My first concern was that my home network was having issues, and I spent (wasted) an hour checking and double checking if my home network was operating properly. It was.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...And the server problems seem to be a recent, fairly short-term thing.......


I'm thinking there may have been a few million shiny new TiVos under the Christmas tree this recent holiday season, and TiVo needs to upgrade their server farm to handle the load.


----------



## wmhjr

Rob Helmerichs said:


> While I agree it's a nuisance, in my experience you can always play the program...it's just getting the additional information that causes the delay. *IOW, if you hit "play" instead of "enter," it will function.*
> 
> And the server problems seem to be a recent, fairly short-term thing...I got my Roamio a month or two ago, and yesterday was the first time I saw that. So hopefully it's just a momentary glitch and not a regular occurrence.


This is incorrect. Specifically, if I hit "Play" during these periods, that is exactly when the spinning blue circle pops up. I have had times when it timed out. Most of the time it will eventually work, but it's a nail biter - there may be recordings going on and I'm always worried that the Tivo is whacked out again, and will need rebooted, resulting in lost recordings.


----------



## wmhjr

morac said:


> Well you have something in common with the TiVo phone support person I spoke to yesterday. He too wondered what was the point of having a status page if it's never updated.
> 
> Actually it was added because a number of people complained that TiVo didn't have a status page to document when there were server problems. The assumption was that if one was added, it would actually be accurate. Based on what I've seen from Apple and Sony, inaccurate status pages are par for the course though.


I agree. One of the very common problems with "status" pages is extraordinarily poor design. All too often, however, product managers hand a BS set of requirements to a Dev mgr/Dev team to build a "status page" but it's a low priority and low visibility project. So, many times the instrumentation is poorly architected, resulting in terribly inaccurate behavior.

The only really "good" status pages I've seen personally have been internally facing, meaning they were performance portals deliberately designed by technology organizations for their own use to help be more proactive, and reduce mean time to repair. Usually using metrics/probes that already exist as part of a more disciplined systems management process.


----------



## wmhjr

WorldBandRadio said:


> My first concern was that my home network was having issues, and I spent (wasted) an hour checking and double checking if my home network was operating properly. It was.


Yes, especially when you know that if you call Tivo, you're likely to get the "if your Tivos are not connected directly to the router we can't "Support your network"".

Utter BS, since in fact zero of our devices connect directly to the router. They may or may not connect to one of the switch ports on the multifunction device. And beyond that, if you have a home like mine, there are more Tivo devices than there are ports on that device.

That's why now when there is an issue and I call, they tell me to connect all the devices to the router, and I just say "OK". "Can you help me do that?" Then I start with, "OK, so there are 2 Roamio Pros, a Premier, and multiple Minis - I'm trying to do this but I can't find enough of those little square things on the back of the router. Can I just splice some of these wires together?"

That usually results in silence, and then a supervisor.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

wmhjr said:


> This is incorrect. Specifically, if I hit "Play" during these periods, that is exactly when the spinning blue circle pops up. I have had times when it timed out. Most of the time it will eventually work, but it's a nail biter - there may be recordings going on and I'm always worried that the Tivo is whacked out again, and will need rebooted, resulting in lost recordings.


Odd, that's never happened to me. Play starts playing it, always. Enter tries to take you to the information screen, and eventually times out back to the Now Playing list.


----------



## awsnyde

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Odd, that's never happened to me. Play starts playing it, always. Enter tries to take you to the information screen, and eventually times out back to the Now Playing list.


I'm with Rob on this one; hitting Play almost always works for me, even if the TiVo network is down. (There is the rare total freeze, unrelated to the TiVo network, that seems to affect every TiVo a couple of times a year, and which may occur when pressing Play or any other button.)


----------



## wmhjr

OK, let me be very clear about what happens from time to time, and what happened explicitly on the evening of January 4, 2015.

1) Turned display on connected via HDMI to Tivo Roamio Pro, connected to network via CAT6 ethernet.

2) Brought up Tivo Central, and then "My Shows".

3) Highlighted recorded content on that specific Roamio Pro, and pressed Select.

4) Highlighted "Play" and pressed select.

5) Watched spinning blue circle for a couple minutes.

6) Thought this was a problem, so hit Tivo Central again, and then repeated steps 2 through 4 again.

7) Observed the same spinning blue circle. This time I just let it spin, and after a couple minutes, the content started playing.


This has happened (not frequently) in the past. It happened again on a different Roamio Pro in my home on Jan 4th. On one occasion, it never seemed to play and going back to Tivo Central and starting over allowed it to display.

I never ever in this process hit "Info" or any other button.

I am not in any possible way confused about what happened, and what happens sometimes. I am also not contradicting that others may have a slightly different experience, but I think that's the point. There is no "Always" when it comes to Tivos. Due to the heavy dependency on cloud integration, all kinds of crazy things happen (that should not). 

I would also disagree with the comment made by awsnyde, about the "total freeze unrelated to the Tivo network" simply because we do not have sufficient instrumentation or data to really know what those freezes are from. It's possible that they are related to Tivo connectivity. It's also possible that they are not. Let's face it - none of us were really prepared for the extent of the impact some months ago when Tivo infrastructure was down. It was only then that we really began to appreciate the extent of the dependency to central infrastructure that Tivo designed into the newer products.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

So you're not hitting "play," you're hitting "select." If you were to hit "play" instead of "select," it would work.

That's all I'm saying. The only functionality you're losing is the ability to see the information screen (which, granted, can be annoying). But you can still play your recordings.


----------



## wmhjr

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So you're not hitting "play," you're hitting "select." If you were to hit "play" instead of "select," it would work.
> 
> That's all I'm saying. The only functionality you're losing is the ability to see the information screen (which, granted, can be annoying). But you can still play your recordings.


So you're saying that somehow or other, the "Play" button has a completely different subroutine than does hitting select with "Play" highlighted"

I'm not sure that's correct. Just looked at it. The "information" or "synopsis" is still on the right side of the screen when the content is highlighted, before hitting anything else.

I can't say you're totally wrong, however, as to be honest I have to admit that I didn't execute those steps. Probably most people do not either. Next time, I'll try them.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Oh, good grief.

Go to the Now Playing list. Highlight the show you want. Hit "play."

It will play. It will not stop at the info screen. It will not collect $200.

That's how you play a show. If you want to go to the info screen, you hit "select."


----------



## jrtroo

I never knew there was an issue, as I never go through the extra button pushes to show the play dialog. Always just hit play from the NPL.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Oh, good grief.
> 
> Go to the Now Playing list. Highlight the show you want. Hit "play."
> 
> It will play. It will not stop at the info screen. It will not collect $200.


This usually works but didn't work for me the other night. I couldn't play anything. Couldn't prompt it to play from the app either. Completely locked out of recordings for about an hour or so.

These outages don't happen regularly, but they're really kinda stupid when they do.


----------



## wmhjr

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Oh, good grief.
> 
> Go to the Now Playing list. Highlight the show you want. Hit "play."
> 
> It will play. It will not stop at the info screen. It will not collect $200.
> 
> That's how you play a show. If you want to go to the info screen, you hit "select."


Um, no, that's not "how I play a show".

If I want for example to see the episode date or anything else in that information, then that's what I do.

More accurately, you might have said "that's how I" (meaning Rob Helmerichs) plays a show. Don't take this the wrong way, but it's a little arrogant to say how everyone "plays" something or what steps they take.

And no matter what, there is still no evidence that doing it the other way (your way) would still not have seen an error. As evidenced by the person posting after you.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Hitting "select" won't play a show. It will take you to the information screen.

Hitting "play" will play a show.


BigJimOutlaw said:


> This usually works but didn't work for me the other night. I couldn't play anything. Couldn't prompt it to play from the app either. Completely locked out of recordings for about an hour or so.


That's odd...when I couldn't get to the info screen the other day, I could still play shows (in fact, that's what I did while I was waiting for the info screen to be accessible again).


----------



## kdmorse

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's odd...when I couldn't get to the info screen the other day, I could still play shows (in fact, that's what I did while I was waiting for the info screen to be accessible again).


When the servers were in their semi-wedged state a few nights ago (or whatever night it was), you could get the tivo into a semi-wedged state as well. My best observation is that if you did something that needed server connectivity, and wedged the UI (with a blue circle), such that the blue circle persisted as you moved from panel to panel in the interface - then the ability to play shows with the play button from the NPL was impacted as well. One of my attempts hung for a couple of minutes there.

This was not the normal C133 wedging we have seen frequently before. In that state, the unit knows what it can and cannot do, and fails out instantly. This was a state where the unit thought it could talk to the servers, and it spent a lot of time waiting on them for normilly snappy actions.


----------



## slowbiscuit

It was more than that - I saw my HDUI crash completely when deleting a show that was playing two nights ago, and it wouldn't restart with the backdoor thumbs down/up/play/play sequence. You could see the yellow circle flash when the remote keys were pressed but couldn't do anything (including with kmttg IP remote access). Couldn't even change channels, no keypress did anything - never seen anything like that before.

Had to wait until box finished recording some stuff then pull the plug to reboot. Once again, this shows why the HDUI is WAY too dependent on their flaky servers and that they've basically been ignoring all of us yelling that it needs to be fixed. Basic DVR functions should never be disrupted because their servers are crapping out.


----------



## morac

My Roamio _almost_ got into a hosed state the other night. I was playing a program and going into explore shows and looking around in things while on the phone with support. When I went back to full screen view and tried to use trick play, nothing happened. I hit the "TiVo" button, it just sat there for a good 10 or 15 seconds before going into the menus, so it does look like background network activity can hose up the GUI, albeit temporarily. Normally it doesn't though.


----------



## wmhjr

Oh, make no mistake. It can.

Today at 2:35pm eastern time. Roamio Pro was just "sluggish". Didn't respond to remote a number of times. Scroll up/down just sometimes would not work. I was curious. Went to settings, network, and took a look. Yup. Network connection in progress. Went to the status of the connection and saw it was in the "loading info" part. Waited until it was done, and the Roamio was back to normal. Based on how long the degraded performance existed, it must have been degraded during the connecting/getting info stages as well as the "loading Info phase.


----------



## RoyK

slowbiscuit said:


> ... Basic DVR functions should never be disrupted because their servers are crapping out.


To put that another way BASIC DVR FUNCTIONS SHOULD NEVER BE DISRUPTED BECAUSE THEIR SERVERS ARE CRAPPING OUT OR SOME SORT OF BACKGROUND NETWORK ACTIVITY IS TAKING PLACE.


----------



## wmhjr

FWIW, blue spinning circle again tonight. 

However, this time I just backed out and then hit play directly from My Shows and Rob was correct - this time it just played immediately.

I also checked and there were no updates or anything else going on at the time that this happened.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

zzzzzmman said:


> So, in order to allow me to schedule season passes, apparently I have to place a chicken in a paper bag and spin it over my head three times.


Well, duh...don't you read the manual?!?


----------



## WorldBandRadio

morac said:


> Well you have something in common with the TiVo phone support person I spoke to yesterday. He too wondered what was the point of having a status page if it's never updated....


The issue with many (most?) status pages is that they do not reflect the status that the customers are seeing.

They reflect the status that the person maintaining them thinks is occurring.

This disconnect is reflective of the lack of communication within the company, i.e., the customer service people answering the phones are hearing from customers who see issues. Yet those issues do not seem to cross company department borders, they remain confined in the customer service department.

So the person who maintains the status page (who most likely is no where near the customer service department) remains in optimistic ignorance of the true status.


----------



## mrizzo80

Had this for the last 30 minutes or so. 

Sadly, navigating my TiVo menus (popping into show folder list screens and episode detail screens) was roughly twice as fast as TiVo normally operates. I wish TiVo would optimize or re-architect how they send data back to the mothership during UI navigation.


----------



## L David Matheny

mrizzo80 said:


> Had this for the last 30 minutes or so.
> 
> Sadly, navigating my TiVo menus (popping into show folder list screens and episode detail screens) was roughly twice as fast as TiVo normally operates. I wish TiVo would optimize or re-architect how they send data back to the mothership during UI navigation.


Yes, any data that TiVo insists on sending back to their servers for data-collection purposes (IOW, data not part of a two-way dialog where the unit is requesting info) should be buffered locally and then uploaded asynchronously so it doesn't interfere with the user interface in any way.


----------



## hooper

TiVo regression at its finest. Saw this last night too. Also had a reboot while playing an Amazon video.


----------



## spynotebook

I experienced this for the first time last night and it has gotten worse. I was sure it was my unit until I checked these forums.


----------



## shiffrin

I thought it was me also. I have had this error almost every night. I go to delete a show after watching it and it says it can't due to this error. I then just use the "clear" key to do the delete and it works fine. Usually by the next morning, the error has gone.


----------



## samccfl99

L David Matheny said:


> Yes, any data that TiVo insists on sending back to their servers for data-collection purposes (IOW, data not part of a two-way dialog where the unit is requesting info) should be buffered locally and then uploaded asynchronously so it doesn't interfere with the user interface in any way.


I never understood why they communicate at all with the servers when you are accessing locally stored recordings. I do not understand it because it is completely idiotic. Did this C133 happen after 2 am? Something strange happened to my mini during the nite. I woke up with no sound and it was on channel 1. They pretty much fixed the C133 about 8 updates ago. it is very annoying when their servers go screwy. Too much communication between box and them!!!


----------



## wco81

They're probably tracking what you're recording and actually watching.

They probably sell this data, maybe even correlate it to individuals or give marketing companies an idea of the demographics of people who watch such and such a show.


----------



## lessd

wco81 said:


> They're probably tracking what you're recording and actually watching.
> 
> They probably sell this data, maybe even correlate it to individuals or give marketing companies an idea of the demographics of people who watch such and such a show.


You may have a point, I was FF though some commercials when I saw something I wanted to see (a movie trailer), and this morning I got an E-Mail about that movie.


----------



## wco81

Check this thread out, it links to the Tivo Privacy terms.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10694771#post10694771


----------



## 2004raptor

I'll search through the thread and search google but I've never had a C133 before. When I go to connect to the service manually, it connects fine. It just shows that error at the top of my screen. 

I went ahead and power cycled my router, switch (yes, i know tivo doesn't support" switches) and my roamio basic. I powered them back on one by one so everything would sync. Forced another connection fine. Still showing the error. 

My wife mentioned she first saw the error when trying to go to comcast On Demand. 
She says it's been like this for a week or so???
Anyone know what else I can try?


----------



## sandycityscott

I'm getting a C133 error tonight. Anyone else?


----------

