# Newbie ??? - Is content married to the cable card?



## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hello all. I researched a bit and fortunately found this place before placing my order for a Roamio and a Mini using a code from eBay. Saved a bunch and pulled the trigger on the lifetime subscription! I currently have Fios and making this move I will break even in just under 2 years.

My question is a simple one. Suppose at the end of my contract with Fios, I decide to switch over to Comcast. Will I still have access to my recorded material or is it married to the cable card? I'm hoping it's still accessible, as this will allow me to more easily pit Comcast vs Verizon for the best deal!

Thanks in advance!


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

It's married to the TiVo's processor. You can change cable providers and keep your content.

There is a loophole where if your cable provider has not enabled copy protection you can transfer content to your PC and from there back to another TiVo.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Still accessible.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Awesome, thanks for the quick replies! This is precisely what I was hoping for! The one thing I've hated is being married to a content provider. This takes the handcuffs right off!


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mneuman916 said:


> Awesome, thanks for the quick replies! This is precisely what I was hoping for! The one thing I've hated is being married to a content provider. This takes the handcuffs right off!


The shows are married to the CPU on the motherboard, not to the cable card, but you should familiarize yourself with what cable companies can do to you, depending on circumstances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information

How bad the cable company wants to screw you varies from company to company and location to location.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

unitron said:


> The shows are married to the CPU on the motherboard, not to the cable card, but you should familiarize yourself with what cable companies can do to you, depending on circumstances.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information
> 
> How bad the cable company wants to screw you varies from company to company and location to location.


Don't scare him away.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Don't scare him away.


He's going to try to pit Comcast and Verizon against each other, so I'm assuming he's already got his big boy pants on.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

unitron said:


> The shows are married to the CPU on the motherboard, not to the cable card, but you should familiarize yourself with what cable companies can do to you, depending on circumstances.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information
> 
> How bad the cable company wants to screw you varies from company to company and location to location.


If you are using a Mini with a Roamio, you are unlikely to run into any restrictions since streaming will be enabled for all recordings (except a PPV recording). The only time you might run into an issue is trying to stream outside of your home network to a mobile device.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

In my Cox cable market, time and time again, all content that was recorded from any "pak" channel, regardless of CCI-Byte setting, is rendered unwatchable if I remove, the cable card, and don't put the same one back in, rather quickly.

Recordings I had watched before, would refuse to play, and say "failed to record due to no signal". If I still had that same card, and put it back in, they would magically play again.

I'm the only forum member to report this. It's been this way here, ever since a cablecard firmware update, about four revision levels back. Even getting all new cablecards, and getting different TiVos, has not stopped this from happening to me. It's only applicable to "pak" channels, or "Channel Paks", that give me more than digital expanded/extended does, alone. I wouldn't call any of the hundreds of "pak" channels to be "Premium", except for Epix.


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## Banker257 (Aug 4, 2014)

unitron said:


> He's going to try to pit Comcast and Verizon against each other, so I'm assuming he's already got his big boy pants on.


LOL! +1!


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## Banker257 (Aug 4, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> In my Cox cable market, time and time again, all content that was recorded from any "pak" channel, regardless of CCI-Byte setting, is rendered unwatchable if I remove, the cable card, and don't put the same one back in, rather quickly.
> 
> Recordings I had watched before, would refuse to play, and say "failed to record due to no signal". If I still had that same card, and put it back in, they would magically play again.
> 
> I'm the only forum member to report this. It's been this way here, ever since a cablecard firmware update, about four revision levels back. Even getting all new cablecards, and getting different TiVos, has not stopped this from happening to me. It's only applicable to "pak" channels, or "Channel Paks", that give me more than digital expanded/extended does, alone. I wouldn't call any of the hundreds of "pak" channels to be "Premium", except for Epix.


You've obviously pissed someone off....


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Banker257 said:


> You've obviously pissed someone off....


Him?

That's unpossible!


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

unitron said:


> He's going to try to pit Comcast and Verizon against each other, so I'm assuming he's already got his big boy pants on.





Banker257 said:


> LOL! +1!


Mutual annihilation? :up:


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mneuman916 said:


> Hello all. I researched a bit and fortunately found this place before placing my order for a Roamio and a Mini using a code from eBay. Saved a bunch and pulled the trigger on the lifetime subscription! I currently have Fios and making this move I will break even in just under 2 years.
> 
> My question is a simple one. Suppose at the end of my contract with Fios, I decide to switch over to Comcast. Will I still have access to my recorded material or is it married to the cable card? I'm hoping it's still accessible, as this will allow me to more easily pit Comcast vs Verizon for the best deal!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


You could even stop all your cable service, take out the cable card, cancel your TiVo service (if monthly) and still be able to watch anything you already recorded on your TiVo.

Some PPV movies may have some limits I don't know about.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

lessd said:


> You could even stop all your cable service, take out the cable card, cancel your TiVo service (if monthly) and still be able to watch anything you already recorded on your TiVo.
> 
> Some PPV movies may have some limits I don't know about.


Yes, PPV shows tend to have timers on how long before it's no longer able to play back. That's part of the CCI-Byte mechanism.

Whatever Cox is doing here, affects channels with it set 0x00.

If I offload them with TiVoDesktop first, I don't lose the ability to keep to watch later. But, should I not offload half my lineup content, some mechanism, related to what package I have, can make them stop playing back, with three generations of TiVos, all saying the program never recorded, due to not having a signal on the channel. Yet, I played them back, before whatever reason I eventually had, to remove, or replace, my cablecard...

I'm more annoyed by that I can't find anybody else who experiences this, than by how the naysayers beat me into silence, claiming what I report can't actually happen, then move to insisting I "prove it", or prove it's not "user error", when I detail every bit of possibly relevant info.

I can replicate the results with any TiVo that has a cablecard slot, and have many times done so. I just want to know "how it's being done", with this mechanism that got slipped into cablecard firmware, since it persists several updates later, and clearly marries the drive, TiVo, and cablecard. If I verify something plays back, clone the drive, put the clone in, and try to watch the same programming, same deal, even if I just clone to an identical model and size drive, with only a different drive serial number (which invalidates the pairing)...

Given the title of this thread, it seems like the perfect place to be the guy saying "Hey, that's not 100% true 100% of the time!" I'm not trying to be a nuisance. I just want to get to the bottom of this "marriage" triangle, or find one person to say "Yeah, I've seen that too!" (truthfully).

As a matter of fact, you are one of the members that I know has seen my reports of this, in the past, and the reception they got.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

The shows on Verizon and Comcast, with the exception of premium channels, are tied to nothing, they can be moved to TiVo Desktop or between units freely. Premium channels are tied to that unit, but can be streamed to other TiVos or Minis. TWC and BHN incorrectly flag all cable channels (except locals, as prohibited by law) like Premium channels in order to cripple TiVos, so that recordings from those channels cannot be moved.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Wow - thanks for all the responses guys! I upgraded my pro to a 3 TB green drive and got everything set up today. Took me a little less than 3 hours start to finish. So far I'm having a fairly common intermittent C133 while searching and the occasional C501 errors. I contacted support, who had me reset my network connection and that seems to have solved the C501 error. C133 remains, though. I'm going to replace my outside splitter, the splitter at the back of my entertainment center and install the MoCA filter that Tivo is sending me for free to see if that resolves the problem. Looks like I have a whole lot to learn!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mneuman916 said:


> Wow - thanks for all the responses guys! I upgraded my pro to a 3 TB green drive and got everything set up today. Took me a little less than 3 hours start to finish. So far I'm having a fairly common intermittent C133 while searching and the occasional C501 errors. I contacted support, who had me reset my network connection and that seems to have solved the C501 error. C133 remains, though. I'm going to replace my outside splitter, the splitter at the back of my entertainment center and install the MoCA filter that Tivo is sending me for free to see if that resolves the problem. Looks like I have a whole lot to learn!


That's awesome news, but I certainly hope you didn't waste an extra $100+ on a new green 3TB drive, because the Pro already comes with a 3TB drive installed already. Did you mean that you upgraded your Plus unit?

C133 errors are network related. If you're not already, try to hook it up directly to your router or a down the line switch using Ethernet and see if that fixes the c133. (Edited after rereading post that he has a mini)


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Just to post a pedantic followup, the shows are tied to the TiVo's TiVo Service Number, which, beginning with the second version of the Series 3, the HD and HD XL, is stored in the CPU somewhere (it used to be on a separate crypto chip on the motherboard, up through the first version of the Series 3, the one with the clock on the front).


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Woops! Yes, I meant that I upgraded my Plus to bring it up to a Pro unit.

My Roamio is already hard wired to my Fios router. I have zero connectivity issues with anything else in the house, wireless or not. That's why I thought the C133 error was odd. I have a 4 way splitter outside that was installed by Verizon 3 years ago, as well as a 2 way splitter behind my entertainment center to split the box and the router. I'm more questioning the one behind the entertainment center than anything else. My house is only 12 years old and the cable line from outside to my box isn't any more than 12 feet long.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mneuman916 said:


> Woops! Yes, I meant that I upgraded my Plus to bring it up to a Pro unit.
> 
> My Roamio is already hard wired to my Fios router. I have zero connectivity issues with anything else in the house, wireless or not. That's why I thought the C133 error was odd. I have a 4 way splitter outside that was installed by Verizon 3 years ago, as well as a 2 way splitter behind my entertainment center to split the box and the router. I'm more questioning the one behind the entertainment center than anything else. My house is only 12 years old and the cable line from outside to my box isn't any more than 12 feet long.


Unless you're got a failed connector or a bad splitter, you should have no issues, as the FIOS ONTs generate a pretty hot RF signal.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Bigg said:


> Unless you're got a failed connector or a bad splitter, you should have no issues, as the FIOS ONTs generate a pretty hot RF signal.


So far I haven't seen the C133 error today. Maybe it a was a fluke? I guess time will tell. The splitter behind the TV looks a little rough for being indoors. I'm going to replace both of them just to say I did.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Well, now I have a new problem. My other half was complaining last night that the mini kept losing connection to the Roamio. This is not helping my cause since she wasn't pleased with losing the on demand capabilities of the Verizon box. Now I REALLY hope the splitter is the issue.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mneuman916 said:


> Well, now I have a new problem. My other half was complaining last night that the mini kept losing connection to the Roamio. This is not helping my cause since she wasn't pleased with losing the on demand capabilities of the Verizon box. Now I REALLY hope the splitter is the issue.


The Mini is on MoCA? BTW, you mentioned a MoCA filter. You should NOT have a MoCA filter on FIOS. The ONT acts as one, since there's nowhere for the MoCA to go, unlike a cable plant where it could, in theory, backfeed into the plant.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Yes the mini is on MoCA. Since the cable line connecting it to the main box is connected to both splitters I can only imagine that replacing them should solve that issue.

Yes, I have Fios. So I shouldn't install the filter they are sending me, huh?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mneuman916 said:


> Yes the mini is on MoCA. Since the cable line connecting it to the main box is connected to both splitters I can only imagine that replacing them should solve that issue.
> 
> Yes, I have Fios. So I shouldn't install the filter they are sending me, huh?


It probably wouldn't hurt anything, but there is literally zero reason for a MoCA filter on FIOS, so it's better not to have more crap inline. Try swapping out the splitters and see if that cleans things up...


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> In my Cox cable market, time and time again, all content that was recorded from any "pak" channel, regardless of CCI-Byte setting, is rendered unwatchable if I remove, the cable card, and don't put the same one back in, rather quickly.
> 
> Recordings I had watched before, would refuse to play, and say "failed to record due to no signal". If I still had that same card, and put it back in, they would magically play again.
> 
> I'm the only forum member to report this. It's been this way here, ever since a cablecard firmware update, about four revision levels back. Even getting all new cablecards, and getting different TiVos, has not stopped this from happening to me. It's only applicable to "pak" channels, or "Channel Paks", that give me more than digital expanded/extended does, alone. I wouldn't call any of the hundreds of "pak" channels to be "Premium", except for Epix.


What a bunch of Cox suckers!


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

Mini Moca?

Sounds like a new Starbucks offering.

PC now 9.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

OK, No more silly posts. 

Thank you for your indulgence.

PC=11


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Well, I put the new splitters in and I'm having the same random connectivity issue out of my mini. I guess the next step would be assigning static iIP addresses?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mneuman916 said:


> Well, I put the new splitters in and I'm having the same random connectivity issue out of my mini. I guess the next step would be assigning static iIP addresses?


How often are they happening?


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Bigg said:


> How often are they happening?


Since it's the TV in the bedroom my experience is a bit limited. My other half is the one putting up with it. Let's say a couple or three times an hour?


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Have you considered using wired Ethernet for the Mini?


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

telemark said:


> Have you considered using wired Ethernet for the Mini?


Unfortunately the location of the box takes this out of the equation.

There were two error messages that popped up last night. One of them was V87 - lost connection and the other was V69 - network too slow. Is there any way to "test" the coax cable? This really makes no sense to me; I had zero issues using the Fios client box on the same coax cables.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

When you view the PHY rates, it's kinda like testing a cable. At least you can change out cables/splitters/wiring order and see if it improves or worsens.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2412

> From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Settings > Network > View Network Status

I'm not a Fios person, so this might be off, I thought Fios offers/uses MoCA already, so doesn't that create a conflict if not wired correctly?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Hmmm, that's interesting. That's way too often for dropouts to happen.



telemark said:


> When you view the PHY rates, it's kinda like testing a cable. At least you can change out cables/splitters/wiring order and see if it improves or worsens.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2412
> 
> ...


TiVo just works with FIOS's MoCA LAN, and FIOS's MoCA WAN connection runs at a lower frequency (something like 950mhz vice the LAN at something like 1150mhz).


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

OP: You don't have the Roamio connected via both Ethernet and MoCA right? That would create some sort of weird parallel universe and causes everything to not work...


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

telemark said:


> When you view the PHY rates, it's kinda like testing a cable. At least you can change out cables/splitters/wiring order and see if it improves or worsens.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2412
> 
> > From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Settings > Network > View Network Status


I checked this as soon as I got home. Readings are all above 230. I also replaced the patch cable to the wall from the mini just to say I did.



Bigg said:


> OP: You don't have the Roamio connected via both Ethernet and MoCA right? That would create some sort of weird parallel universe and causes everything to not work...


Nope. That's one of the very first things I checked. The coax connections should all be fine, and I just replaced the splitters. I'm wondering if I should try a hard reset of the Fios modem and go from there. Seems more likely to me that the issue would lie there more than anywhere else.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

After leaving the TV on an HD channel for about 20 minutes, twice I came upstairs and the mini was sitting in the Tivo menu.

This is getting extremely frustrating to say the least...


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Uhhhh..... maybe I just found my issue?

Am I NOT supposed to have the Roamio hooked up with an ethernet cable to my router?


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Bigg said:


> OP: You don't have the Roamio connected via both Ethernet and MoCA right? That would create some sort of weird parallel universe and causes everything to not work...


I totally misunderstood what you asked. I assumed that you meant in the menu settings, not by physical cable! DOH!!! By golly, I think we fixed it!!!!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mneuman916 said:


> I totally misunderstood what you asked. I assumed that you meant in the menu settings, not by physical cable! DOH!!! By golly, I think we fixed it!!!!


Was that the issue? You can either disable MoCA in the menu and leave Ethernet connected, OR unplug the Ethernet and leave MoCA running. Either way, the Verizon router will bridge MoCA to Ethernet, so it ultimately doesn't really matter what way the TiVo is connected to the network, other than MoCA not being gigabit and some people not having gigabit Ethernet where their TiVo is...

There might also be some way to disable MoCA LAN on the Verizon router, leaving the TiVo as the bridge between the two, but I'm not sure since I don't have FIOS.

If the TiVo is bridging MoCA to Ethernet, and the router is doing the same, then you end up with a loop in the network, and the fabric of the universe falls apart. Or something like that.


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## mneuman916 (Sep 16, 2014)

Bigg said:


> Was that the issue? You can either disable MoCA in the menu and leave Ethernet connected, OR unplug the Ethernet and leave MoCA running. Either way, the Verizon router will bridge MoCA to Ethernet, so it ultimately doesn't really matter what way the TiVo is connected to the network, other than MoCA not being gigabit and some people not having gigabit Ethernet where their TiVo is...
> 
> There might also be some way to disable MoCA LAN on the Verizon router, leaving the TiVo as the bridge between the two, but I'm not sure since I don't have FIOS.
> 
> If the TiVo is bridging MoCA to Ethernet, and the router is doing the same, then you end up with a loop in the network, and the fabric of the universe falls apart. Or something like that.


Ever since I unplugged the Ethernet cable from the back of the Roamio I've had zero issues out of the mini. I feel like an idiot looking at it all hindsight. I'll lay a portion of the blame on Tivo tech support, though. They knew I had an Ethernet cable plugged in and still had me set up my Roamio as MoCA.

I'm not having any issues with my Fios router with both Tivo boxes running MoCA, but is there any advantage to running Ethernet for the Roamio and MoCA only for the mini? Or should I just leave it all alone? The last thing I'd want to do is screw it up now that it's all running properly!

Thanks to everyone for the help! :up:


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mneuman916 said:


> Ever since I unplugged the Ethernet cable from the back of the Roamio I've had zero issues out of the mini. I feel like an idiot looking at it all hindsight. I'll lay a portion of the blame on Tivo tech support, though. They knew I had an Ethernet cable plugged in and still had me set up my Roamio as MoCA.
> 
> I'm not having any issues with my Fios router with both Tivo boxes running MoCA, but is there any advantage to running Ethernet for the Roamio and MoCA only for the mini? Or should I just leave it all alone? The last thing I'd want to do is screw it up now that it's all running properly!
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the help! :up:


Yeah, you had a network loop. You could disable MoCA and plug the Ethernet back in if you prefer Ethernet for it's higher speed for TiVo Desktop transfers. If MoCA is good enough for government work, then keep it the way it is! And yes, I'm allowed to say that, I work for a government contractor.  MoCA does have the upside of keeping a lot of video traffic off of the Ethernet side completely, and letting the TiVos do their thing on the MoCA side.

Did they know you have FIOS? Otherwise you would need both to bridge the network. I have both running, since I don't have a router that does that like FIOS.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mneuman916 said:


> Ever since I unplugged the Ethernet cable from the back of the Roamio I've had zero issues out of the mini. I feel like an idiot looking at it all hindsight. I'll lay a portion of the blame on Tivo tech support, though. They knew I had an Ethernet cable plugged in and still had me set up my Roamio as MoCA.
> 
> I'm not having any issues with my Fios router with both Tivo boxes running MoCA, but is there any advantage to running Ethernet for the Roamio and MoCA only for the mini? Or should I just leave it all alone? The last thing I'd want to do is screw it up now that it's all running properly!
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the help! :up:


FOr the Mini there is no advantage. But if you have several Minis that might be in use at once, other TiVos that might stream or transfer or you want to transfer content from the TiVo to a PC. Then if you have the Pro or Plus, using the GigE connection will give you much faster speeds. I've seen up to 180Mb/s transfer rates to my PC.

I used to have my PRo connected by MoCA. But back then there were issues with that software that prevented the faster transfer rates from the GigE connection. Since a couple of software versions ago the speeds have been faster. So I keep my Pro connected by GigE and my four Minis are using MoCA and getting network access from an Actiontec MoCA adapter with GigE ports. It was a better solution than bridging the Ethernet connection from my Roamio to MoCA. But if I weren't transferring content back and forth between a PC then I would have just kept my Pro on MoCA.


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