# Spectrum requires cablebox



## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

So I went to return the TWC cablebox in the bedroom because I recently bought a TiVo mini and wanted to free myself from the monthly cablebox $10 fee. Bastards at Spectrum said no can do - I need to have a cablebox in order to have service. Their system does not accept no cablebox for live service... Never mind I have a cablecard for the main TiVo in the living room. This is due to the TWC/Spectrum merge.

Sucks!


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## jwort93 (Dec 18, 2015)

TheSubmariner said:


> So I went to return the TWC cablebox in the bedroom because I recently bought a TiVo mini and wanted to free myself from the monthly cablebox $10 fee. Bastards at Spectrum said no can do - I need to have a cablebox in order to have service. Their system does not accept no cablebox for live service... Never mind I have a cablecar for the main TiVo in th living room. This is due to the TWC/Spectrum merge.
> 
> Sucks!


I had the same issue when signing up for service in store. At least they gave me a simple set top box which is only $4/month instead of a DVR. I'm hoping I can somehow return it in the future though, but your experience makes me think otherwise.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

TheSubmariner said:


> So I went to return the TWC cablebox in the bedroom because I recently bought a TiVo mini and wanted to free myself from the monthly cablebox $10 fee. Bastards at Spectrum said no can do - I need to have a cablebox in order to have service. Their system does not accept no cablebox for live service... Never mind I have a cablecard for the main TiVo in the living room. This is due to the TWC/Spectrum merge.
> 
> Sucks!


I had no problem returning a cable box to Charter a couple of years ago and getting it off my bill. You should raise a ruckus, threaten to cancel, etc.


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## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

UCLABB said:


> I had no problem returning a cable box to Charter a couple of years ago and getting it off my bill. You should raise a ruckus, threaten to cancel, etc.


Tried that. Threatened to look up FIOS...
Gave me the 'tell someone who cares' attitude back. Typical.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

It seems to me this is a violation of the FCC regulations, at least it is a violation of the purpose of the regulations, 
CableCARD: Know Your Rights
And in this case, if they are forcing you to pay for an unneeded and unused cable box when you are in fact using a cable card, then I would encourage you to file a complaint with the FCC. Here is a link, just fill it out and see what happens.
FCC Complaints


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Charter/Spectrum went to all digital several years ago. So, if the new unit is being connected to its own tv, it will need a cable box unless it uses a cableCARD. 

When they first changed to all digital I was rather pissed, as I have little 19" TVs in my kitchen and my office. I just used the old 'plug a cable from the wall to the tv and go' deal. But when they changed I had to have cable boxes for those TVs to operate on cable. 

The good news was that the new cable boxes are much smaller, so it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, except for having to pay $5-6 for each new cable box.


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## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

fcfc2 said:


> It seems to me this is a violation of the FCC regulations, at least it is a violation of the purpose of the regulations,
> CableCARD: Know Your Rights
> And in this case, if they are forcing you to pay for an unneeded and unused cable box when you are in fact using a cable card, then I would encourage you to file a complaint with the FCC. Here is a link, just fill it out and see what happens.
> FCC Complaints


Cool. Thanks. Will do so.


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## sbillard (Sep 17, 2014)

At least so far they have not told me to get a cable box. But If they do I will insist on my free cable modem as well. (When TW wanted to charge me $5 a month for a $60 box I bought my own!)

I run a Roameo Plus with two mini's. Cable card and Tuning Adapter is all I pay for. (Actually there is no charge on the TA.) But this was a plan that I had prior to Charter buying TW Cable.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

The usual issue (and a long term issue with Verizon) is that the order screens will not let you complete an order without a cable box even though a CableCARD will fulfill the requirement on paper, the standard approach is to get the cable box and CableCARD, get service up, return the box that you don't need.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> FCC Complaints


Get your complaints in while there's still an FCC!


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> The usual issue (and a long term issue with Verizon) is that the order screens will not let you complete an order without a cable box even though a CableCARD will fulfill the requirement on paper, the standard approach is to get the cable box and CableCARD, get service up, return the box that you don't need.


Luckily we didn't have this issue when we ordered FIOS service for my son's apartment a little over a year ago. The apartment complex did have a specific contact for us to call but you wouldn't think that would have mattered.

Scott


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

dianebrat said:


> The usual issue (and a long term issue with Verizon) is that the order screens will not let you complete an order without a cable box even though a CableCARD will fulfill the requirement on paper, the standard approach is to get the cable box and CableCARD, get service up, return the box that you don't need.


This!

If your bill shows a charge for a box, I think this will work. It did for me.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I've had Charter Spectrum without any boxes for years. But some promo packages may include a free box. This was the case with one of my promo deals years ago. They would not take the box back without changing my plan. So I just set said box in the closet for 2 years until the deal expired.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I'm on Charter and have no cable box. I hope they haven't changed anything.


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## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

sbillard said:


> At least so far they have not told me to get a cable box. But If they do I will insist on my free cable modem as well. (When TW wanted to charge me $5 a month for a $60 box I bought my own!)
> 
> I run a Roameo Plus with two mini's. Cable card and Tuning Adapter is all I pay for. (Actually there is no charge on the TA.) But this was a plan that I had prior to Charter buying TW Cable.


I have the same setup except just one mini. When I attempted to return the bedroom cablebox they said they could not accept the box back as their system is not designed to have a service active without a cablebox.

Anyway, submitted the FCC complaint... we'll see. In the meantime, I have to pay the ten bucks a month for a useless box. (Sigh!)


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Sometimes they don't understand unless you tell them you have Tivo. I would try again. I just changed my package on Charter, and while they tried to give me a box, once I told them I only had Tivo with a cable card, that was the end of that discussion. So Charter certainly can provide service without a box and do so to many thousands of customers today.


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## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

Trust me, I did tell them. The customer service dude was battling to accept the box on its own without terminating the service. I told him a few times I had a Tivo. He then called his supervisor and I again told them I dont need the box because of the cablecard and Tivo. The supervisor said that the cablecard was issued by TWC because 'Spectrum does not issue cablecards anymore' I thought that was bullshirt and even tweeted that to the Spectrum twitter account. They sent back a tweet that they do indeed issue cablecards. Nevertheless, the Spectrum office where I tried to return the box said their system cant accept the box back without terminating the contract...


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

You can also complain to your local franchise authority. This whole thing is just an exercise in navigating bureaucracy to reach the right people who can get things done. I usually take 2 approaches, forcing me to rent equipment is going against the purpose of CableCARDs and secondly, advertising a particular price for TV service when there is a hidden charge of renting equipment which cannot be avoided is deceptive to consumer. If they want to bundle equipment in, that should be included in the base price. I usually make the 2nd argument to the franchise authority because their rate sheet they are required to publish usually makes no mention of mandatory equipment rental.

Eventually if you are persistent enough, you get the right person with the authority to create a billing plan that doesn't require equipment. Usually it can be done by creating a special dummy cablebox that costs $0 but will satisfy the requirement from that you have a box on your account. Alternatively they can tag a CableCARD so it looks like a cablebox in their system.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mdavej said:


> I've had Charter Spectrum without any boxes for years. But some promo packages may include a free box. This was the case with one of my promo deals years ago. They would not take the box back without changing my plan. So I just set said box in the closet for 2 years until the deal expired.


The CableCARD will fulfill the box requirement, it's part of the regulations


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## pmbtv (Jan 8, 2017)

mdavej said:


> Sometimes they don't understand unless you tell them you have Tivo. I would try again. I just changed my package on Charter, and while they tried to give me a box, once I told them I only had Tivo with a cable card, that was the end of that discussion. So Charter certainly can provide service without a box and do so to many thousands of customers today.


I don't have a box, and Im doing just fine without one. Now, if only Tivo would straighten out its programming guide.


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## brewman (Jun 29, 2003)

Do you have a contract in place with TWC, or just paying month-to-month at the standard rate?


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## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

I have a month to month contract with them. Been with them for about 10 years now.


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## TheSubmariner (May 31, 2008)

UPDATE:

Filled in a complaint on the FCC website as mentioned I should do in a prior thread post.

Well, that got things moving...

Had some head honcho from the mainTWC office phone me and profusely apologize saying that the customer service people were not up to date on things yada yada and for me to bring the unused cable box in no problem.

Yay FCC !


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sharkster said:


> Charter/Spectrum went to all digital several years ago. So, if the new unit is being connected to its own tv, it will need a cable box unless it uses a cableCARD.


Not true. Minis don't actually have internal tuning hardware. They borrow a tuner from the main TiVo and then stream the channel over your network to the Mini's location. So you only need a CableCARD in the main TiVo.

This is one major advantage to the 6 tuner TiVo with Minis in each room setup. You can avoid a LOT in box rental fees.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Thanks for that info, Dan. I am not knowledgeable as to the Mini so I probably should have kept my mouth shut.  

BTW, hope all is well where you are and no flooding problems.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

TheSubmariner said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Filled in a complaint on the FCC website as mentioned I should do in a prior thread post.
> 
> ...


Thanks for coming back here and posting an update. Kudos to you for following through with FCC and getting it done


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

So glad the OP got what we was entitled to under the law. IMHO, local Spectrum management probably knew exactly what they were doing and just didn't want to cooperate. Maybe Spectrum has internal rewards program for local franchises who can get the most Spetrum boxes in TiVo users homes or for keeping depolyed Spectrum boxes at the highest. Think Wells Fargo phony accounts mess! C'mon, those local Spectrum goons had to know what's what, especially supposedly calling a supervisor. They just didn't want the lower their count of Spectrum boxes receiving revenue, IMHO.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sharkster said:


> Thanks for that info, Dan. I am not knowledgeable as to the Mini so I probably should have kept my mouth shut.
> 
> BTW, hope all is well where you are and no flooding problems.


None myself. A friend of mine had her house flooded though.


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## jhhyde (Dec 31, 2001)

I thought it was also a law that a cable company had to offer a Limited Basic plan that included just local OTA channels. Thought this was an FCC requirement. After TWC merged with Charter and became Spectrum in my area they deny that option even exists. I would like to use the FCC complaint link if I have a case. Can someone let me know if this is still a requirement? THanks,


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Charter's Basic service tier exists and is $27. I'm not sure what, if anything, is included beyond locals. What may also be of interest is an unadvertised Choice package for $30. Choice includes all locals plus 10 a la carte cable channels of your choice plus one premium (HBO, SHO, etc.). This is what I have, and it's an excellent value. Local broadcast fees and other charges add another $7 or so to all packages.


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## The Merg (Dec 2, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> Luckily we didn't have this issue when we ordered FIOS service for my son's apartment a little over a year ago. The apartment complex did have a specific contact for us to call but you wouldn't think that would have mattered.
> 
> Scott


 I'm in the same boat. When I was placing my order for FIOS, I knew I was going to be using TiVo, but I had to order a cable box. As soon as the order was placed on-line, I called up and had my order changed. The customer service rep removed the cable box and added a cable card.

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

I just had to deal with this tonight. The customer service insisted I HAD to have a box and it was going to cost $4.99 a month. I am pretty sure that is not correct and will have to deal with the office where I pick up equipment to see if they can fix this mess. 

And I love how she said they don't do cable cards and I said yes you do, the website even says so. And she wanted to charge me $2.50 when the site says $2.

And they charge $6+ for a broadcast fee. That is stupid too. 

I'm still debating cancelling all of this and getting a digital antenna and hooking my roamio up to it and just streaming. I want to see what I get with the 125 channels and if I get a couple that I really want then I might keep it since the base price is very reasonable at $60 for internet and tv.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lstorey said:


> I just had to deal with this tonight. The customer service insisted I HAD to have a box and it was going to cost $4.99 a month. I am pretty sure that is not correct and will have to deal with the office where I pick up equipment to see if they can fix this mess.
> And I love how she said they don't do cable cards and I said yes you do, the website even says so. And she wanted to charge me $2.50 when the site says $2.
> And they charge $6+ for a broadcast fee. That is stupid too.
> I'm still debating cancelling all of this and getting a digital antenna and hooking my roamio up to it and just streaming. I want to see what I get with the 125 channels and if I get a couple that I really want then I might keep it since the base price is very reasonable at $60 for internet and tv.


That's a good price if you get a reasonable download speed and HD channels. But if it's too good to be true......


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

We have Spectrum too. I had no issue getting the CC and TA. Ordered it online picked it up at the local store. Hooked up my Roamio and mini on my two tvs and they work flawlessly. When i returned my two crappy dvr's to Spectrum Monday they did try and tell us we had to keep one box but got them to take both back and remove them from our account. I'm having no issue with any channels without having one of their garbage boxes. Just fight it you are being fed a line of bullcrap. FWIW i'm in a former TWC area.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> That's a good price if you get a reasonable download speed and HD channels. But if it's too good to be true......


It is a decent deal considering it would be over $115 for this without it. However, i still have an issue with being forced to take something I don't need. I even called back and the guy agreed with me that it should be one or the other and to get the deal you shouldn't be forced to have something you don't need. I will be talking to the store when I go to swap equipment and see if they can take it off. The guy said that it would cancel my offer if I took the box off.

Oh and the speed is 100mbps


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

tim_m said:


> We have Spectrum too. I had no issue getting the CC and TA. Ordered it online picked it up at the local store. Hooked up my Roamio and mini on my two tvs and they work flawlessly. When i returned my two crappy dvr's to Spectrum Monday they did try and tell us we had to keep one box but got them to take both back and remove them from our account. I'm having no issue with any channels without having one of their garbage boxes. Just fight it you are being fed a line of bullcrap. FWIW i'm in a former TWC area.


I'm in a former TWC area too. I plan to file something with the FCC from the first page too because this is just crazy!


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

It all comes down to they want you to use their crap boxes to get as much money out of you as possible. Without their boxes i'll be saving $17 a month. Just keep fighting them to return the box and get it off your account. Like i said we were able to get them to take them both and remove them.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

tim_m said:


> It all comes down to they want you to use their crap boxes to get as much money out of you as possible. Without their boxes i'll be saving $17 a month. Just keep fighting them to return the box and get it off your account. Like i said we were able to get them to take them both and remove them.


I plan to fight to get them to keep the digital receiver and just give me the CC & TA and not charge me for it. The guy on the phone even suggested talking to them.

The rate is $29.99 for 125+ channels and $29.99 for 100mbps internet. I don't mind paying for the cable card. I don't like the broadcast fee.....but if I stream everything, to add what I need to get what I need it comes to be about the same as this package deal.

So we'll see how it shakes out.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

lstorey said:


> I plan to fight to get them to keep the digital receiver and just give me the CC & TA and not charge me for it. The guy on the phone even suggested talking to them.
> 
> The rate is $29.99 for 125+ channels and $29.99 for 100mbps internet. I don't mind paying for the cable card. I don't like the broadcast fee.....but if I stream everything, to add what I need to get what I need it comes to be about the same as this package deal.
> 
> So we'll see how it shakes out.


We have the gold and 100mbps internet and were paying $178 with the boxes $9.98 for the boxes and additional $19.99 for the dvr service. Now we are just paying $2 for the CC. The TA is free. I've already gotten my first bill without the boxes and the bill is down to $168. It'll drop more next month. They still got me for partial month for the boxes and dvr service.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

tim_m said:


> We have the gold and 100mbps internet and were paying $178 with the boxes $9.98 for the boxes and additional $19.99 for the dvr service. Now we are just paying $2 for the CC. The TA is free. I've already gotten my first bill without the boxes and the bill is down to $168. It'll drop more next month. They still got me for partial month for the boxes and dvr service.


what saves us higher fees is that we really just have 1 TV hooked up to cable. my hubby uses a roku for everything he watches.....otherwise i could put that box in the bedroom. guess I still could if forced to take it, but going to do my best to not take the DR box!


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

lstorey said:


> what saves us higher fees is that we really just have 1 TV hooked up to cable. my hubby uses a roku for everything he watches.....otherwise i could put that box in the bedroom. guess I still could if forced to take it, but going to do my best to not take the DR box!


We only have 2. One in each bedroom. Just don't give up. If we got them to take back both dvr's you can too. Good luck. This new company Spectrum is the pits. Worst company i've ever dealt with. Even when it comes to paying the bill. If it's more then a few days late they harass you.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

lstorey said:


> The rate is $29.99 for 125+ channels and $29.99 for 100mbps internet. I don't mind paying for the cable card. I don't like the broadcast fee.....but if I stream everything, to add what I need to get what I need it comes to be about the same as this package deal.


Our area just switched to spectrum as well. The $29.99 deal here seems to only be for triple play deals including phone. So it comes out to around $110 or more with all fees added. Are you getting those prices for a double play package?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

lstorey said:


> The rate is $29.99 for 125+ channels and $29.99 for 100mbps internet. I don't mind paying for the cable card. I don't like the broadcast fee.....but if I stream everything, to add what I need to get what I need it comes to be about the same as this package deal.


One of the big problems with Spectrum is their Minimum internet cost.
https://www.timewarnercable.com/con...nd-service-rates/Spectrum-Broadband-Label.pdf

If they are the only choice, it may be better to not change anything. For example, the old TWC 3Mbps $15/mth works great for me, Netflix is "720", often "1080" per the TiVo info button. I would get about zero benefit from 33x the speed. If I change anything in my bill I would be paying $65, $50 a month more for nothing.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

jth tv said:


> One of the big problems with Spectrum is their Minimum internet cost.
> https://www.timewarnercable.com/con...nd-service-rates/Spectrum-Broadband-Label.pdf
> 
> If they are the only choice, it may be better to not change anything. For example, TWC 3Mbps $15/mth works great for me, Netflix is "720", often "1080" per the TiVo info button. I would get about zero benefit from 33x the speed. If I change anything in my bill I would be paying $65, $50 a month more for nothing.


Wow! I got excited by your chart when I saw the 30/4 internet assist for $14.99!! That's much better than the standard internet TW has been providing to me (they have now switched to Spectrum in our area too). I'd gladly pay double that or even $39.99 if they made it available. But alas that's only available if you are on some type of government programs etc. Yeah, I agree that they are cutting internet options so they can make money on cord cutters. When you are a de-facto monopoly you can do pretty much what you want. So the responses about having to pay for a box even if you don't need it aren't surprising. I'm sure they get away with that with 99% of customers. They also now supposedly include a modem in the price of internet. They should be forced to cut those of us a break that went out and bought on own modems when TW was charging $6 to $10 per month extra for them. I even just bought another brand new more expensive one that can handle the fastest internet speeds because they were blaming my perfectly competent (docsis 3.0) for intermittent severe speed slowdowns. Of course that wasn't the problem at all but I wasn't going to let them use it as an excuse for not fixing my issues.

I've also heard they aren't willing to deal much these days once a promo price is over. I'm on a promo for internet that ends soon, so I guess I'll find out how they treat me. IMO $60 - $65+ is more than we should need to pay for internet especially when most of us would be fine with a lower speed option.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Yep Charter doesn't do promos period.


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## susieb (May 23, 2010)

tim_m said:


> Yep Charter doesn't do promos period.


We are Specturm-previously Brighthouse. Last night I made the annual call for promo continuation. You're correct. No go. And I was told that they don't have cable cards and that I was better off to stay with my current Brighthouse setup. I landed here to investigate. I also want to get my own modem/router but will hold off until I'm sure it won't backfire or cause me grief and maybe more money in the long run.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

susieb said:


> I also want to get my own modem/router but will hold off


What modem do you have and why do you want to change it ?


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

susieb said:


> We are Specturm-previously Brighthouse. Last night I made the annual call for promo continuation. You're correct. No go. And I was told that they don't have cable cards and that I was better off to stay with my current Brighthouse setup. I landed here to investigate. I also want to get my own modem/router but will hold off until I'm sure it won't backfire or cause me grief and maybe more money in the long run.


That is bs about cable cards. They do have them cause i got one from Spectrum. The way i got mine was logging into my TWC account going to upgrade services and simply ordered a CC with TA then picked it up the next day no problem.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

jth tv said:


> What modem do you have and why do you want to change it ?


Perhaps just to save some money? Charter does not charge for the modem but they do tack on a $5 fee to enable the wifi.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

tim_m said:


> Perhaps just to save some money? Charter does not charge for the modem but they do tack on a $5 fee to enable the wifi.


Ask Spectrum about saving $5 by buying your own router while using their modem. They say it is possible. "If you choose, you can purchase your own router at a retail store to use with Spectrum Internet."
Spectrum.net In-home WiFi

When I first had TWC install internet, I used their modem. Once the modem was working with my pc, I unplugged the pc, connected the router to the modem and connected the pc to the router and the pc could connect to the internet. I then followed the router instructions set security for wifi. It was easy, with a little homework before, takes 5-30 minutes.

Later, if there is any trouble, unplug the router from the modem and plug in the pc and get internet working again. That way they can't blame the router. But that pretty much never happened, everything just worked.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jth tv said:


> Ask Spectrum about saving $5 by buying your own router while using their modem. They say it is possible. "If you choose, you can purchase your own router at a retail store to use with Spectrum Internet."
> Spectrum.net In-home WiFi
> ..........


I don't see where the linked page says that you can reduce your Spectrum bill by using your own modem. I just went through this issue on the phone with Spectrum. They said I could continue to use my modem but it would not reduce the bill and they strongly recommended using their modem. They would not support my modem and said the max speed would be reduced to 50 Mbps download, although my modem (Motorola/Arris SB6121) is on their approved list for 60 Mbps service. I had two or three different reps tell me exactly the same thing.

I think you may be confusing this with the $5/mo "WiFi" charge that applies if you use their modem that includes WiFi. If you supply your own WiFi router you can save that charge even while using their supplied modem that doesn't provide WiFi.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

I guess I should have phrased it clearer. "supply your own WiFi router" is what I meant.


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## FitzAusTex (May 7, 2014)

I've had luck with Charter offering me a promotion for another year starting this month. I'm paying $146.12 for another year for the Gold TV and 100mbps Internet "double". That's all-in including taxes and fees. A month ago, they informed me that my price was going to be around $240 after my third year of promotional pricing ended, but I talked to the Retention/Cancelation dept to negotiate my upcoming price. I had been paying $149.50 with TWC, which I was happy-enough with. Now I've just started my fourth year of promotional pricing, so it is possible to negotiate with them, at least in Austin.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

My Charter Bill is $85 incl taxes and fees off promo for 65/5 internet, locals, HBO and 10 a la carte cable channels. I have 5 Tivos, zero cable boxes, Charter's free modem and my own free router. I pay $3/month for Ooma void phone service. I don't need or want every possible channel when I watch the same 10 channels 99% of the time.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> Our area just switched to spectrum as well. The $29.99 deal here seems to only be for triple play deals including phone. So it comes out to around $110 or more with all fees added. Are you getting those prices for a double play package?


Yes I am - $29.99 for internet (100mbps) and $29.99 for the TV select. we have our phone through another provider.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

I went today to the Spectrum "store" and turns out I didn't need to bring back my cablecard and TA - that it was exactly what they would have been giving me. They also removed the digital receiver that the sales people said I had to have to get the special. so for everything it is $75 which is about what I would pay for internet only and then going with sling, CBS all access and a few others.

They need to train their sales people better!


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

dlfl said:


> I don't see where the linked page says that you can reduce your Spectrum bill by using your own modem. I just went through this issue on the phone with Spectrum. They said I could continue to use my modem but it would not reduce the bill and they strongly recommended using their modem. They would not support my modem and said the max speed would be reduced to 50 Mbps download, although my modem (Motorola/Arris SB6121) is on their approved list for 60 Mbps service. I had two or three different reps tell me exactly the same thing.
> 
> I think you may be confusing this with the $5/mo "WiFi" charge that applies if you use their modem that includes WiFi. If you supply your own WiFi router you can save that charge even while using their supplied modem that doesn't provide WiFi.


of course they want you to use their modem! at some point they will want to charge you for it...or charge you the Wi-Fi fee if you don't supply your own router. We have had our own modem for years because they used to charge to "rent" the modem. It doesn't take very long of "renting" to buy your own. Sure if it goes out you have to buy another, but they tend to last quite some time so it is more cost effective to supply your own (if you are being charged for a modem).


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

lstorey said:


> I went today to the Spectrum "store" and turns out I didn't need to bring back my cablecard and TA - that it was exactly what they would have been giving me. They also removed the digital receiver that the sales people said I had to have to get the special. so for everything it is $75 which is about what I would pay for internet only and then going with sling, CBS all access and a few others.
> 
> They need to train their sales people better!


Glad you finally found someone that actually has a brain at Charter.


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## susieb (May 23, 2010)

jth tv said:


> What modem do you have and why do you want to change it ?


It is a Motorola SURFboard_SBG6580. They charge $4 a month for the modem and $5 Networking. I have kept their equipment so if there are any problems they are theirs. Changing would only be to reduce the monthly cost though it could be close to 2 years to realize depending on equipment cost to buy. I haven't searched in a while and don't know if the compatible list will change with Spectrum.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

susieb said:


> don't know if the compatible list will change with Spectrum.


Spectrum does Not charge for a modem and give Not give credit for a customer owned modem, so buying your own modem will not save anything in the long run. The Motorola SURFboard_SBG6580 sounds decent.

Spectrum does charge an extra $5 for wifi and says they allow customer owned wifi/routers so there is a potential savings there.



susieb said:


> I also want to get my own modem/router but will hold off until I'm sure it won't backfire or cause me grief and maybe more money in the long run.


Right. If it were me, I'd call about turning off wifi and seeing if they would give a $4 reduction under the old plan. And how much they would charge to turn wifi on again if it does not work out. If they will reduce the bill, then buying a $30 wifi/router should save $4 or $5 per month and installing it should be easy enough.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

You can't assume that a Spectrum rep will properly handle the facts that (1) you use a CableCARD and do NOT need their set top box or DVR and (2) that you supply your own WiFi/Router. When I recently regotiated my first Spectrum promotion deal I was quoted $120/mo. But when I called back in later to actually accept the deal these two factors were finally realized by the rep and they reduced the rate to $112/mo. In both cases I was talking to their "Customer Solutions" (i.e., customer retention) department. (This is the only way you're going to get a promotional deal if you are an existing customer.) But apparently the rep who gave me the initial higher quote didn't take these two factors into account -- even though they obviously can know these things if they consult your account records.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

fcfc2 said:


> It seems to me this is a violation of the FCC regulations, at least it is a violation of the purpose of the regulations,
> CableCARD: Know Your Rights
> And in this case, if they are forcing you to pay for an unneeded and unused cable box when you are in fact using a cable card, then I would encourage you to file a complaint with the FCC. Here is a link, just fill it out and see what happens.
> FCC Complaints


In hand with this - a link from the FCC to HERE - Digital Cable Compatibility: CableCARD-Ready Devices
It also has a PDF Printout at the bottom.
Armed with this I'm going to have to go into the office and probably do battle.

We're moving crosstown in 3 weeks - same provider - Brighthouse now Sphencktrum.
I called and asked how to transfer service - or should I cancel and restart to get a new customer package..... - they said I should transfer - and prices will go up. (new customer prices are much lower so this made no sense). The drone went on to tell me how I was going to have to now rent cable boxes. Um - hello? - I'm already receiving their cable WITHOUT cable boxes! This is really obtuse.

The suggestion to just let them set everything up and immediately RETURN the cable boxes might work - hoping it might. But it's an exercise in stupidity - if only they would do it right at the time of set up.

I use my own modem and router too - this will probably also be a problem for them.

I'm already preparing my FCC Complaint.

We used to have a great supportive local Tampa Bay BNHTechExpert around the forums - who could really help cut through the BS, but they let him go in the changeover. Bummer.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

igirl said:


> In hand with this - a link from the FCC to HERE - Digital Cable Compatibility: CableCARD-Ready Devices
> It also has a PDF Printout at the bottom.
> Armed with this I'm going to have to go into the office and probably do battle.
> 
> ...


If you are not currently on a contract, I would try to cancel and see if you can get one of the new customer discounts.
You are speaking to idiots being supervised by idiots. Eventually, you will get a cable card but apparently they are bound and determined to make it as difficult as possible. I would file an FCC complaint just for the aggrivation even if you can pressure your way into getting what you want. They hate FCC complaints....


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

igirl said:


> In hand with this - a link from the FCC to HERE - Digital Cable Compatibility: CableCARD-Ready Devices
> It also has a PDF Printout at the bottom.
> Armed with this I'm going to have to go into the office and probably do battle.
> 
> ...


Since you are planning to go the CC route and use Tivo i'd recommend just switching. Your bill will likely go down. We moved back in December and switched to Spectrum gold triple play. One to get the new channels Spectrum had added but also because our TWC promos had ended and our bill had ballooned up to $255 a month which was ridiculous for not even getting all the channels Spectrum added. We switched and dropped our bill down to $178. Now that we got Tivo it dropped even more. March it was down to $168 because we still had partial month payment for the 2 dvr's and dvr service. My April bill should go down to $152. I'd suggest doing a self install if possible and taking the boxes back. Whoever you spoke to clearly hasn't got a clue.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

Just a follow up - I called the local Spectrum (Brighthouse) office number and told them I wanted to *transfer* my account to a new address. This seemed to work better, though it took them a long time to figure out what I'm currently doing (with cable cards and no cable boxes) I think. Ultimately I was told I would be getting free digital cable boxes as replacements and wouldn't need the tuning adapters any more. I'm still suspicious and will probably hang onto the tuning adapters when we move until I'm sure the new setup is not a trojan horse for monthly fees down the road. - Worst case scenario I could still return their cable boxes and keep the tuning adapters (which are free). Not one mention of "Triple Play" or other bundles. They did say my ISP speed will go up to 100mbps (from 60) and the whole thing ends up being $1 less that what we're currently paying w/2 rented cablecards. ($122/mo for Premier TV and Lightning Internet)

Their new customer packages were not beneficial over a transfer, and forces other rented hardware. I'll post back with a report on how it went next month...


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

If you are going to be using their boxes instead of Tivo you won't need a CC or TA.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

tim_m said:


> If you are going to be using their boxes instead of Tivo you won't need a CC or TA.


This is the Tivo forum - of course we're using Tivos! (with cablecards) 
As is - Brighthouse (now Schpektrum) has tuning adapters between the wall and the Tivos. According to them - now, TAs are replaced by digital cable boxes for free. It sounds fishy to me which is why I'm hanging onto my TAs until proven otherwise.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

I'm wondering if they're confusing digital tuning adapters DTA's with TA. There should be no reason you need a digital cable box. What you currently have Tivo, CC and TA should be all you need.


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

tim_m said:


> I'm wondering if they're confusing digital tuning adapters DTA's with TA..


Yes. They often confuse the two when i talk to their CSRs. DTA stands for "Digital Transport Adapter" (the mini cable box that they deployed when they shut off analog cable from the wall). Dunno why they named it so similar to TA (Tuning Adapter).


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

igirl said:


> This is the Tivo forum - of course we're using Tivos! (with cablecards)
> As is - Brighthouse (now Schpektrum) has tuning adapters between the wall and the Tivos. According to them - now, TAs are replaced by digital cable boxes for free. It sounds fishy to me which is why I'm hanging onto my TAs until proven otherwise.


Hang onto the tuning adapters, you will need them. Then pray that your cable cards will still be paired.


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## KAL99 (Mar 25, 2017)

I recently signed up for a new promotion for those on Time Warner Cable and now being assigned over to the new Spectrum service. The promotion is $59.99 per month which includes Select cable (125+ channels) and 60 Mbps internet. The deal also includes a free cable modem. I tried signing up for this offer after seeing it online as an upgrade available to existing customers. I was paying $59.99 for TWC Starter cable (20+ channels & local) with 50 Mbps internet, so I thought why not go for the upgrade, i.e. more channels and speed, same price.
Well the didn't work out with five different phone calls no one could honor the deal.
Finally I received a flyer in the mail with the same offer and a dedicated phone number to call. Got the deal, yeah! Of course, the rep said that I would have to take the cable box even though I have two TIVOs and cable cards. However he said he would waive the cost of the cable box rental. Fine. 
The next day I call in to the special cable card support desk that I've read about on this very forum (thank you by the way). The people in this department are so much better than the usual phone reps. They helped me get things going to activate my cable cards with the new package. The rep also told me the other rep was wrong and that I didn't have to take the cable box. He said he would cancel the order for the cable box. I also told him I used my own modem, a recent Motorola model that I bought last fall when TWC was charging $10/month for a modern. He said, no problem we won't send the modem.
Low and behold two days later a cable box and a modern with built in wifi router shows up at my door. Magically a new monthly invoice also shows up in my mailbox. Bad omen!
I open the invoice and surprise surprise! My new monthly bill is not $59.99 plus taxes and fees, but $74.99! I am not that shocked actually. I do expect $4 for the cable cards, but no where on the bill does it explain the extra $10, it's just built into the total. I am assuming it's for the modem/router and WiFi service. 
Today I will be driving to my nearest Spectrum store which is about 30 minutes away. I'll be bringing the cable box and the modem/WiFi router and the promotional flyer they mailed me to prove the deal. Hopefully they'll take them back and lower my bill to what it is supposed to be.
(By the way, my TIVOs work perfectly with only the cable card, no SV tuning adaptor required).
Lastly, one question: I run speed tests on my PC and my phone and consistently get about 35 Mbps. The plan is supposed to provide "up to 60 Mbps". I get the "up to" caveat, but should I complain or did that risk things getting messed up (I'm always afraid to have them get involved).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KAL99 said:


> Lastly, one question: I run speed tests on my PC and my phone and consistently get about 35 Mbps. The plan is supposed to provide "up to 60 Mbps". I get the "up to" caveat, but should I complain or did that risk things getting messed up (I'm always afraid to have them get involved).


I can understand your hesitation, but such a difference can't be explained by poor connections. What modem do you have? My ISP usually gets me 95% or better, but they only promise 80%. And the speed is good 24/7.


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## KAL99 (Mar 25, 2017)

As it turns out I forgot to mention I also use a Powerline adaptor. When I called tech support earlier they told me that it probably was there Powerline unit causing the reduction.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

KAL99 said:


> I recently signed up for a new promotion for those on Time Warner Cable and now being assigned over to the new Spectrum service. The promotion is $59.99 per month which includes Select cable (125+ channels) and 60 Mbps internet. The deal also includes a free cable modem. I tried signing up for this offer after seeing it online as an upgrade available to existing customers. I was paying $59.99 for TWC Starter cable (20+ channels & local) with 50 Mbps internet, so I thought why not go for the upgrade, i.e. more channels and speed, same price.
> Well the didn't work out with five different phone calls no one could honor the deal.
> Finally I received a flyer in the mail with the same offer and a dedicated phone number to call. Got the deal, yeah! Of course, the rep said that I would have to take the cable box even though I have two TIVOs and cable cards. However he said he would waive the cost of the cable box rental. Fine.
> The next day I call in to the special cable card support desk that I've read about on this very forum (thank you by the way). The people in this department are so much better than the usual phone reps. They helped me get things going to activate my cable cards with the new package. The rep also told me the other rep was wrong and that I didn't have to take the cable box. He said he would cancel the order for the cable box. I also told him I used my own modem, a recent Motorola model that I bought last fall when TWC was charging $10/month for a modern. He said, no problem we won't send the modem.
> ...


Not sure where the $10 came from but $5 or it is likely for the "wireless" support that they include automatically with their gateways.
Regarding your speed tier, you can never tell what you are actually getting without a direct Ethernet connection and that is the only speed they will even consider talking about. Wireless has too many variables and most folks don't have a clue what they are.
This might make for some good reading, Designing a Dual-Band Wireless Network


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KAL99 said:


> As it turns out I forgot to mention I also use a Powerline adaptor. When I called tech support earlier they told me that it probably was there Powerline unit causing the reduction.


I use a wireless bridge. My computer, Roamio, Premiere, AVR and Blu-ray all share it. With three Mini boxes on-line (with wireless bridges) I still benchmark the 40Mbps I pay for. But as was posted, the only benchmark that matters to your provider is the speed you get when your computer is connected to your modem. My router and Roku 3 can also run the Ookla test.


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## KAL99 (Mar 25, 2017)

fcfc2 said:


> Not sure where the $10 came from but $5 or it is likely for the "wireless" support that they include automatically with their gateways.
> Regarding your speed tier, you can never tell what you are actually getting without a direct Ethernet connection and that is the only speed they will even consider talking about. Wireless has too many variables and most folks don't have a clue what they are.
> This might make for some good reading, Designing a Dual-Band Wireless Network


Excellent point- and in fact, most recently my speed is at 45, and the Spectrum tech support guy confirmed that the Powerline probably is reducing overall speed somewhat depending on conditions. I am happy overall however.


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## KAL99 (Mar 25, 2017)

fcfc2 said:


> Not sure where the $10 came from but $5 or it is likely for the "wireless" support that they include automatically with their gateways.
> Regarding your speed tier, you can never tell what you are actually getting without a direct Ethernet connection and that is the only speed they will even consider talking about. Wireless has too many variables and most folks don't have a clue what they are.
> This might make for some good reading, Designing a Dual-Band Wireless Network


Indeed after talking with a surprisingly competent rep at Spectrum, she adjusted my bill to where it is supposed to be and explained I was being charged extra for the "wifi" service. I explained I had my own modem and router, and she removed the charge. She told me to use the FedEx labels in the box that was sent to me and return the cable box and modem. All is well.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KAL99 said:


> Indeed after talking with a surprisingly competent rep at Spectrum, she adjusted my bill to where it is supposed to be and explained I was being charged extra for the "wifi" service. I explained I had my own modem and router, and she removed the charge. She told me to use the FedEx labels in the box that was sent to me and return the cable box and modem. All is well.


That's an order of magnitude above competent. She deserves a raise.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Spectrum is still telling people that they can’t use cablecards. I finally changed service from TW to Spectrum and was told by the 1st rep that I couldn’t use a cablecard at all. I tried again since that was obviously incorrect. 2nd rep let me keep the cablecard but is sending a box as well. (Still wrong but not really the salesperson’s fault). Once I get it, I’ll return it.


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

realityboy said:


> Spectrum is still telling people that they can't use cablecards. I finally changed service from TW to Spectrum and was told by the 1st rep that I couldn't use a cablecard at all. I tried again since that was obviously incorrect. 2nd rep let me keep the cablecard but is sending a box as well. (Still wrong but not really the salesperson's fault). Once I get it, I'll return it.


Make sure you get a receipt for returning the hardware (I scan my TWC/Spectrum receipts into Evernote for a permanent digital record) since the icing on the cake for this screwup could be them sending you a bill in the mail a few years from now billing you for "lost" equipment.


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

When people simply say "Spectrum," it doesn't mean much. Spectrum is simply branding for conglomeration of (previously) different cablecos, with Charter in the lead, TWC and Bright House being recent acquisitions. The different systems are still, for the most part, different. So what TWC Spectrum does/doesn't do can be very different than what Charter Spectrum does/doesn't do.

I've had Charter for years, and there's never been a requirement to have one of their boxes, and no problem getting Cablecards for the TiVos I've had. And, although it's sometimes taken them an hour or two get a Cablecard activated, it's always worked in the end.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

m.s said:


> When people simply say "Spectrum," it doesn't mean much. Spectrum is simply branding for conglomeration of (previously) different cablecos, with Charter in the lead, TWC and Bright House being recent acquisitions. The different systems are still, for the most part, different. So what TWC Spectrum does/doesn't do can be very different than what Charter Spectrum does/doesn't do.
> 
> I've had Charter for years, and there's never been a requirement to have one of their boxes, and no problem getting Cablecards for the TiVos I've had. And, although it's sometimes taken them an hour or two get a Cablecard activated, it's always worked in the end.


It was never an issue with TWC either. Have you made any plan changes recently? The Spectrum plans added in former TWC areas apparently require the salespeople to add a box. If they didn't change the plans in former Charter areas, you may not have any problems there. I'm not sure how Charter areas handled the transition, but with TWC areas, customers have to call to switch to Spectrum or remain on their grandfathered TWC plans.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

realityboy said:


> It was never an issue with TWC either. Have you made any plan changes recently? The Spectrum plans added in former TWC areas apparently require the salespeople to add a box. If they didn't change the plans in former Charter areas, you may not have any problems there. I'm not sure how Charter areas handled the transition, but with TWC areas, customers have to call to switch to Spectrum or remain on their grandfathered TWC plans.


Hmmm.... I'm in the Dayton area on Spectrum, formerly TWC. I switched to a new Spectrum plan about a year ago and they didn't try to force a box on me. They did force their modem on me, although I had been furnishing my own. Their internet plans all provide a modem and will not credit you for using your own. I'm not complaining because they have recently gone to 100/10 Mbps and my owned modem would not have handled that. They claim their plans will not do the automatic 30% rate increase every year (like the TWC plans did -- requiring you to call in, threaten to quit, get a new "promotional" plan). We will see.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

just changed my Spectrum service from my old grandfathered Bright House service. was paying 216/ mo for cable, HBO, Showtime, 2 tuning adapters, two cable cards and 200 MBPS internet.
Spectrum Silver gets me all that plus Cinemax and 400 MBPS Ultra internet for $196 /mo

happy camper here in Orlando
did require a new cable modem / router from Arris


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Hmmm.... I'm in the Dayton area on Spectrum, formerly TWC. I switched to a new Spectrum plan about a year ago and they didn't try to force a box on me. They did force their modem on me, although I had been furnishing my own. Their internet plans all provide a modem and will not credit you for using your own. I'm not complaining because they have recently gone to 100/10 Mbps and my owned modem would not have handled that. They claim their plans will not do the automatic 30% rate increase every year (like the TWC plans did -- requiring you to call in, threaten to quit, get a new "promotional" plan). We will see.


Good to know. I'm in Columbus. I'm guessing it's an issue with their salespeople not being familiar with cablecards and not understanding how they work or how to order a package using them instead of the box. It took a second call just to get a salesperson that would let me use a cablecard at all, and she wasn't sure it would work.


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## jwall29 (Aug 29, 2013)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but....If you already have a TiVo with a cable card set up with Spectrum and you just don't want a Spectrum box in your bedroom here is what you do.

You bring them the box and tell them you don't use a TV in your bedroom. The more you mention about any kind of TiVo mini or anything other then their box you are going to confuse the **** out them.

You simply say "I don't watch TV in my bedroom" and then hook up the mini yourself...They will never know!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jwall29 said:


> Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but....If you already have a TiVo with a cable card set up with Spectrum and you just don't want a Spectrum box in your bedroom here is what you do.
> 
> You bring them the box and tell them you don't use a TV in your bedroom. The more you mention about any kind of TiVo mini or anything other then their box you are going to confuse the **** out them.
> 
> You simply say "I don't watch TV in my bedroom" and then hook up the mini yourself...They will never know!


True. They have no way to detect you're using a mini, so why confuse them by mentioning it?


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## Rogerj (Feb 15, 2018)

I'm with Spectrum and initially they gave me a digital converter box for free...then it was $3.99 a month and went up to $4.99 a month...then to $5.99. Then this month to $6.99. 75% increase in less then a year. If I get a digital TV can I buy a cable box from Motorola and buy a M-card? Tired of pay equipment fees.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

Rogerj said:


> I'm with Spectrum and initially they gave me a digital converter box for free...then it was $3.99 a month and went up to $4.99 a month...then to $5.99. Then this month to $6.99. 75% increase in less then a year. If I get a digital TV can I buy a cable box from Motorola and buy a M-card? Tired of pay equipment fees.


Do you have a Tivo? All you need is a cablecard and a tuning adapter. Tuning adapters are free and cablecards are like $2.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rogerj said:


> If I get a digital TV can I buy a cable box from Motorola and buy a M-card?


No, but you could buy a TiVo, and rent (not buy, sorry) an M-card.


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## Rogerj (Feb 15, 2018)

igirl said:


> Do you have a Tivo? All you need is a cablecard and a tuning adapter. Tuning adapters are free and cablecards are like $2.


No, I don't have a Tivo.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

I once told TWC that I had a TiVo and a couple of mini's and was then told I would be charged an "access fee" for each outlet. After being transferred to another department the new rep asked, "How may I help you?" 

I asked if this was the retention department and was transferred again. Hung up after that. A year goes by rates increase again and dropped them for FIOS. With FIOS there are no tuning adapters so reliability in my recordings hasn't been an issue.

FIOS seems to have their act together. No CableCARD issues or forced box fees. CableCARD activation via self install and competent reps. I'd be hard pressed to go back to them now. But FIOS doesn't know that so my rates are decent. I've got the triple play package and my CableCARD fees.

Having more than one franchise your area helps. When it was just TWC there was no effort. Once FIOS made headway here TWC had a retention booth inside their lobby. Comical best described it. I walked in carrying my new bright red Verizon bag with all of theirratcrap and turned it all in. 

Funny how once they saw me standing in their lobby with that bag I didn't have to wait. They tried to keep me and offered a better rate that FIOS topped once again.


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## Rogerj (Feb 15, 2018)

rdrrepair said:


> I once told TWC that I had a TiVo and a couple of mini's and was then told I would be charged an "access fee" for each outlet. After being transferred to another department the new rep asked, "How may I help you?"
> 
> I asked if this was the retention department and was transferred again. Hung up after that. A year goes by rates increase again and dropped them for FIOS. With FIOS there are no tuning adapters so reliability in my recordings hasn't been an issue.
> 
> ...


Verizen and all the other Cell phone carriers are getting ready to implement their 5G networks which will offer broadband internet/video services at speeds that exceeds cable ISP speeds. I can't wait to give Spectrum the finger.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

Rogerj said:


> I'm with Spectrum and initially they gave me a digital converter box for free...then it was $3.99 a month and went up to $4.99 a month...then to $5.99. Then this month to $6.99. 75% increase in less then a year. If I get a digital TV can I buy a cable box from Motorola and buy a M-card? Tired of pay equipment fees.


If you are also a Spectrum Internet Customer, you can use the app on SOME Samsung SmartTVs, or use the Spectrum Streaming Channel on a Roku (which can attached to any TV) to avoid renting a box from the cable company. You must be on your home LAN. WiFi Rokus cost about $50. RJ-45 hard-wired ethernet Rokus are just under $100, and are recommended.


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## Rogerj (Feb 15, 2018)

dstoffa said:


> If you are also a Spectrum Internet Customer, you can use the app on SOME Samsung SmartTVs, or use the Spectrum Streaming Channel on a Roku (which can attached to any TV) to avoid renting a box from the cable company. You must be on your home LAN. WiFi Rokus cost about $50. RJ-45 hard-wired ethernet Rokus are just under $100, and are recommended.


I'm getting ready to buy a new flat screen TV to replace a ancient analog one I've had for years; possible a Samsung. Just want to stop paying equipment feeds that are always going up.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Rogerj said:


> I'm getting ready to buy a new flat screen TV to replace a ancient analog one I've had for years; possible a Samsung. Just want to stop paying equipment feeds that are always going up.


Realize you're going to have to spend at least $400 on a no-fees Tivo solution (that's equal to about 5 years' worth of $6.99/month) . You may want to consider dumping cable TV altogether and replacing with an OTT service like DirecTV NOW, Sling TV, Philo, Youtube TV, etc., to avoid equipment fees and high up front costs altogether.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

mdavej said:


> Realize you're going to have to spend at least $400 on a no-fees Tivo solution (that's equal to about 5 years' worth of $6.99/month) . You may want to consider dumping cable TV altogether and replacing with an OTT service like DirecTV NOW, Sling TV, Philo, Youtube TV, etc., to avoid equipment fees and high up front costs altogether.


 Understand if you do this, any dvr functions will be in the cloud and you have no hardware dvr. Make sure you're good with this if you go this route.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

Rogerj said:


> I'm getting ready to buy a new flat screen TV to replace a ancient analog one I've had for years; possible a Samsung. Just want to stop paying equipment feeds that are always going up.


Not all models of Samsung Smart TV's DO NOT support the Spectrum App...
Appstore Compatible - Spectrum TV G00009313465 | Samsung TV & Blu-ray Apps

A Roku is guaranteed to work with any TV you can connect to it.


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## Rogerj (Feb 15, 2018)

mdavej said:


> Realize you're going to have to spend at least $400 on a no-fees Tivo solution (that's equal to about 5 years' worth of $6.99/month) . You may want to consider dumping cable TV altogether and replacing with an OTT service like DirecTV NOW, Sling TV, Philo, Youtube TV, etc., to avoid equipment fees and high up front costs altogether.


I'm considering all my options. A cable box with an M-Card and DVR capabilities will cost $175. Hard part would be getting spectrum to program the card. Also I bought a new 40" smart TV to replace my old 28 tube tv this week....works great and did some research to see what TV stations are near me and all the major networks (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, CW) are all @14 miles from me. Bought an antenna and did a channel scan and I was able to pick up 21 channels including all the major networks (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, CW)....every channel comes in perfectly!... so strongly considering dropping cable when the promotion deal expires in a few months. No fees solution would cost me $0..drop cable altogether and I'd still get about the same number of channels and every major network.


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## Rogerj (Feb 15, 2018)

dstoffa said:


> Not all models of Samsung Smart TV's DO NOT support the Spectrum App...
> Appstore Compatible - Spectrum TV G00009313465 | Samsung TV & Blu-ray Apps
> 
> A Roku is guaranteed to work with any TV you can connect to it.


I ended up buying a Westinghouse 40" smart TV. Oh yea, forgot to mention I have Netflix, which works great with new TV.


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## dingojames (Sep 19, 2018)

Apologies but I have to dig up this old thing for MORE OF THE SAME. Those &$#(&(#@! at SPECTRUM will NOT provide CableCards or Tuning Adapters service our TIVOs, requiring us to rent THEIR DIGITAL BOX for EACH AND EVERY TV, period, and I'd say "end of story" except their usual "story" continues on with how the FCC is responsible for this "need for a digital box" due to their switching us to DIGITAL which "needs a box for us to receive the signal". Yeah know, I REALLY HATE being overcharged and getting so little for my money from snarky reps, but I REALLY HATE BEING TOLD LIES again and again and again. I filled out the FCC complaint form given earlier in this thread, and I can only encourage EVERYONE to complain and get these thieves brought under control.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

_"SPECTRUM will NOT provide CableCards or Tuning Adapters"_

Tell us what city/market you are in and maybe someone else on the forum lives there and had done this. I found that the phone reps have no idea these exist. Some of the installers are stupid. But if you go into the office with your equipment, they have the cards and adapters. The next challenge then is finding someone who knows how to do the pairing in the field - or over the phone...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Agreed. I went on chat looking for the pricing for switching from a legacy TWC plan to a Charter plan. The person on the chat said "we don't do cable cards" to which I responded "Well, you sure do, because first, they're on your retail pricing sheet, and more importantly - I have one here IN MY HANDS RIGHT NOW." They eventually came back with a half an apology and admitted that yes, they do CableCards.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

You can also remind them that they have millions of cable boxes deployed with cable cards inside them. If they didn't "do cable cards", none of those boxes would work anymore.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

It’s just a problem with inadequately trained csrs. Can’t blame them too much since some systems have so few TiVo’s in their systems and the csrs have a lot on their plate from tv to internet to phones and now mobile.


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## dingojames (Sep 19, 2018)

I'm in the Orlando, FL area, and I promise you they understood what the conversation (and I've called many times). The way it is now: ONLY those who are grandfathered in from BRIGHTHOUSE are allow to "keep" the tuning adapter and cable cards BUT if ANY CHANGES AT ALL are made to the account then I will be put over to a SPECTRUM plan which means different pricing AND no more TIVO support. For myself I wanted to change my TV plan (to more basic) and also to price removing the phone. Nope, that'll make it SPECTRUM---so no more TIVO. Additionally, my daughter moved right next door to me with HER TIVO and Spectrum will NOT allow her TIVO to be setup on her account AT ALL unless she rents one of their digital boxes for EACH TV--which they then say with a snarky tone "and THEN she can hook up her Tivo to the Spectrum box". Most of the reps will add that it's not Spectrum's job to assist the competition. ALL OF THE REPS will go on to tell you how *their boxes are required for each and every TV in the house due to the US GOVERNMENT AND THE FCC switching from analog to Digital*, they'll even go so far as to give you the FCC's phone number. I've started recording them; damned shame the FCC isn't doing their job and fining them.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm Orlando / legacy Brighthouse - I've migrated to the Spectrum plan and kept Tivo support and my Tuning adapters work (about as well as they did prior to the acquisition...). I even returned my rental box when I switched to the Spectrum plan. Right now I only have 3 cablecards w/ tuning adapters on my account.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dingojames said:


> due to the US GOVERNMENT AND THE FCC switching from analog to Digital*


Yeah, that's some ignorant or evil s**t, right there, since that digital transition only applied to OTA broadcasting - nothing to do with cable providers transitioning their systems to digital.


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## dingojames (Sep 19, 2018)

It really is evil s**t----TIVO actually called them with us on the line one time, and they admitted that THEY are the ones SCRAMBLING THE DIGITAL SIGNAL thus requiring customers to rent THEIR BOX TO UNSCRAMBLE what THEY SCRAMBLED. Most of the field reps admit this as well. We all know this----but the phone reps LIE LIE LIE.


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## dingojames (Sep 19, 2018)

jwbelcher---honestly, we have spoken to sooooooo many different reps and they all say NO TIVO SUPPORT on Spectrum...no cable cards, no tuning adapters. Do you have a manager's name or ANYONE or ANYTHING you could pass along to make them act like decent human beings?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

dingojames said:


> jwbelcher---honestly, we have spoken to sooooooo many different reps and they all say NO TIVO SUPPORT on Spectrum...no cable cards, no tuning adapters. Do you have a manager's name or ANYONE or ANYTHING you could pass along to make them act like decent human beings?


Ask to be transferred to the CableCard Support team. They most certainly exist and everyone I've asked that to transfers me instantly.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dingojames said:


> jwbelcher---honestly, we have spoken to sooooooo many different reps and they all say NO TIVO SUPPORT on Spectrum...no cable cards, no tuning adapters. Do you have a manager's name or ANYONE or ANYTHING you could pass along to make them act like decent human beings?


The FCC complaint you filed should give them a kick in the pants. Whenever Spectrum tries to give me the runaround, I just fire off an FCC complaint and a manager usually calls me within a day or two apologizing and ready to fix whatever problem I have.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Any number of similar threads over on DSLReports... [CATV] Spectrum says I can no longer use TiVo - Charter Spectrum | DSLReports Forums

see also: Spectrum.net CableCARDS

From the 'Obtaining a CableCARD' link:

*How do I Get a CableCARD?*
CableCARDs must be leased from Spectrum and can be self-installed or activated by a professional installer. Pick up your CableCARD at your local Spectrum store or have it delivered to your home. CableCARD-compatible-retail-devices can be purchased at retail stores as well.

Interested in getting a CableCARD? Contact us.​


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

cwoody222 said:


> Ask to be transferred to the CableCard Support team. They most certainly exist and everyone I've asked that to transfers me instantly.


They don't exist in legacy Charter markets, never have. I've had Charter on and off for their entire existence (about 35 years?). I only started using cable card about a decade ago. For a brief time, Charter did have an excellent online cable card support team, but you couldn't actually call them. I could get a card paired within a couple of minutes using the online support. After they killed that group, it could take anywhere from 10 minutes to 10 days to pair a card, depending entirely on how lucky I was at finding a competent person on the other end of the phone.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

dingojames said:


> jwbelcher---honestly, we have spoken to sooooooo many different reps and they all say NO TIVO SUPPORT on Spectrum...no cable cards, no tuning adapters. Do you have a manager's name or ANYONE or ANYTHING you could pass along to make them act like decent human beings?


Unfortunately I don't, it was just a random CSR last february when I switched over. I guess I got lucky, he was very helpful. I did have to return the analog adapters that BH offered right after the switch to encrypted QAM. Maybe they're confusing the SDV tuning adapter with the DTA devices needing to be returned?


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

And so it goes on and on and on... By all means come on here and vent; heck, I've done it myself more than a few times. But it's only going to get worse. CableCARD is dead; the only question is when, not if.
If you want to own and control your equipment, your only alternatives going forward will be OTA and streaming services with a cloud or home DVR. None of these yet offer a service quality matching the Tivo/Cablecard experience, but they are improving fast and at least you don't have to put up with crap from the cable company


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Scooby Doo said:


> . ........ your only alternatives going forward will be OTA and streaming services with a cloud or home DVR. None of these yet offer a service quality matching the Tivo/Cablecard experience, but they are improving fast and at least you don't have to put up with crap from the cable company


You must be among the fortunate few who live where competition forces (good broadband) internet prices to a reasonable level. My only choice for good internet is the same company that soaks me for cable tv. Just to get internet alone my minimum cost would be $70/mo, so streaming services don't free me from the same crap from the same company, who will most likely increase their crap level (and prices) as they see cable tv revenue falling.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

dlfl said:


> You must be among the fortunate few who live where competition forces (good broadband) internet prices to a reasonable level.


True. I splashed out on 1Gbps fiber from AT&T for $70 per month. Could have gone with cheaper options but the speed and uptime of the fiber service blows away what I was getting from Comcast. I don't love AT&T but the service so far been flawless. And I really hate Comcast


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## LYKUNO (Jan 7, 2014)

CableCard is not dead yet, but I suspect if the cable providers had their way, it soon would be. The last several times I spoke with TWC and Spectrum Customer Service Reps inquiring about switching from legacy TWC to Spectrum, and what the cost would be, they've started off with: "Tell me how many TVs you have". When I replied that my 3 TVs are connected to TiVo devices (2 Roamios and 1 Mini), and already had 2 cable cards and 2 Cisco Tuning Adapters, they suggested that I would absolutely need to get new Spectrum digital boxes (e.g., Spectrum's 101-Ts). They then went on to say that my TiVos would work with those digital boxes(?!).

I found the key to getting beyond the ineptitude of the CSRs was to insist that my existing/working equipment was already sufficient to work with their latest digital TV services, and that they needed to find a supervisor, manager or technical support specialist in their company who could enlighten them into how TiVos, Cable Cards and Tuning Adaptors function and are orderable in their systems. TWC's and Spectrum's Terms of Service documentation and rate charts all reference CableCards and Tuning Adaptors -- and all should be available for review online.

Armed with the facts (i.e., Spectrum offers/supports CableCards and Tuning Adaptors), we switched from Legacy TWC TV and Internet service to Spectrum TV and Internet service about one week ago. The CSR we spoke with gave us the usual spiel about needing new Spectrum equipment. We (wife and I on a speakerphone) briefly freaked out a bit, but quickly regained our composure, and convinced the agent that we were knowledgeable consumers with credible technical awareness of Spectrum's offerings. Once we were assured that the CSR understood exactly what we wanted/expected and got confirmation that Spectrum would provision exactly that, we gave the agent the go-ahead to make the switch. About 15-20 minutes later, we saw our new channels appear and verified our internet speed had been increased from 30/5Mb to 100/10Mb. We also verified the charges that the changes we made would be showing up in our new bill which was cutting less than a week later.

Bottom line is that we had no problems with Spectrum's provisioning of our new Spectrum Silver Plan, and the upgrade to our Internet speed. We did indeed get our new bill (eBill) which we reviewed and found to be exactly what the CSR quoted it would be with the new services. We anticipated there would be some work required on our part to update the channel lists on our TiVo Roamios. We discovered a few incorrect channel listings and about 7 missing channel listings in the TiVo guide. We could still tune to the channels we wanted, but the on-screen guide would show the wrong program or a "To be announced" message for missing channels. I submitted the TiVo online form for correcting those and TiVo's channel lineup team has already made the necessary corrections (Kudos to TiVo there!).

For those contemplating switching from TWC to Spectrum, do all your research first, before contacting a Spectrum CSR to inquire about or place an order. Have the facts at your fingertips so when you speak with a Spectrum agent, you'll be prepared to refute any misinformation they might try to pass off as accurate. Don't be afraid to ask to speak to a supervisor, manager or technical representative, but ensure you have your facts straight first. You'll get a better response if you appear to have done your homework and can speak rationally to an agent (or their superiors), rather than go on a rant about how incompetent the agent is, how expensive the offers are, or threaten to change to another service provider.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

LYKUNO said:


> CableCard is not dead yet, but I suspect if the cable providers had their way, it soon would be. .....


It's been obvious they hated CableCARD since its introduction more than 10 years ago. There was never an incentive for them to like it.


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## LYKUNO (Jan 7, 2014)

dlfl said:


> It's been obvious they hated CableCARD since its introduction more than 10 years ago. There was never an incentive for them to like it.


Yes, and the deployment of Switched Digital Video (SDV) technology only complicated things. I've given up hope that the cable companies will ever introduce a reliable and miniaturized Tuning Adaptor to replace the clunky ones we have now.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

LYKUNO said:


> CableCard is not dead yet, but I suspect if the cable providers had their way, it soon would be. The last several times I spoke with TWC and Spectrum Customer Service Reps inquiring about switching from legacy TWC to Spectrum, and what the cost would be, they've started off with: "Tell me how many TVs you have". When I replied that my 3 TVs are connected to TiVo devices (2 Roamios and 1 Mini), and already had 2 cable cards and 2 Cisco Tuning Adapters, they suggested that I would absolutely need to get new Spectrum digital boxes (e.g., Spectrum's 101-Ts). They then went on to say that my TiVos would work with those digital boxes(?!).
> 
> I found the key to getting beyond the ineptitude of the CSRs was to insist that my existing/working equipment was already sufficient to work with their latest digital TV services, and that they needed to find a supervisor, manager or technical support specialist in their company who could enlighten them into how TiVos, Cable Cards and Tuning Adaptors function and are orderable in their systems. TWC's and Spectrum's Terms of Service documentation and rate charts all reference CableCards and Tuning Adaptors -- and all should be available for review online.
> 
> ...


You can also do what I did when I tried to switch from L-TWC to Spectrum and the CSR at the local Spectrum store told me that I had to turn in my CableCARD and use their equipment. I simply filed an FCC complaint and the next day the manager of the local store called to apologize for the mistake and had me switched over to the Spectrum Silver TV lineup in about 5 minutes.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Scooby Doo said:


> And so it goes on and on and on... By all means come on here and vent; heck, I've done it myself more than a few times. But it's only going to get worse. CableCARD is dead; the only question is when, not if.
> If you want to own and control your equipment, your only alternatives going forward will be OTA and streaming services with a cloud or home DVR. None of these yet offer a service quality matching the Tivo/Cablecard experience, but they are improving fast and at least you don't have to put up with crap from the cable company


I'd hardly call something that will be around at least another 5-10 years "dead". Comcast might be able to switch from QAM to IP and get rid of CableCARDs within the next 5 years, but Charter is so slow at upgrading equipment that I'm fairly certain they will still have CableCARD boxes running on their system for at least another decade. That's actually a very long time in terms of technology lifespan.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'd hardly call something that will be around at least another 5-10 years "dead".


You sure about that? The mandate has gone. Is anyone other than Tivo making cable boxes that use CableCARD anymore? Maybe some small market operators can stay competitive with clunky and expensive CableCard boxes for another ten years, but I doubt it with the coming onslaught of OTT services and 5G.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Scooby Doo said:


> You sure about that? The mandate has gone. Is anyone other than Tivo making cable boxes that use CableCARD anymore? Maybe some small market operators can stay competitive with clunky and expensive CableCard boxes for another ten years, but I doubt it with the coming onslaught of OTT services and 5G.


The mandate has ended, that's true, but cable companies still have tens of millions of their own boxes deployed with CableCARDs inside them. Charter has cable boxes deployed that are over a decade old. Heck, Charter still has some markets left that have analog channels. Charter is cheap and upgrades technology at a snail's pace, and I fully expect to be using my CableCARD TiVo on Charter for many years to come. People around here have been saying the end of CableCARD is near for years, and so far it hasn't happened.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Charter still has some markets left that have analog channels. Charter is cheap and upgrades technology at a snail's pace, and I fully expect to be using my CableCARD TiVo on Charter for many years to come.


Maybe you are right, but your vision of the future of cable make me even more convinced I am doing the right thing running away from it as fast as possible!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Scooby Doo said:


> Is anyone other than Tivo making cable boxes that use CableCARD anymore?


HDHomeRun PRIME 6 - Silicon Dust


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Scooby Doo said:


> Maybe you are right, but your vision of the future of cable make me even more convinced I am doing the right thing running away from it as fast as possible!


You can run but you can't hide! A major portion of the country will still be (over-) paying their current cable tv provider for the indefinite future -- for tv and/or internet.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Scooby Doo said:


> Maybe you are right, but your vision of the future of cable make me even more convinced I am doing the right thing running away from it as fast as possible!


Everyone's situation is different, and you have to do what's right for you. But for some of us, a CableCARD TiVo is still the best option.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The mandate has ended, that's true, but cable companies still have tens of millions of their own boxes deployed with CableCARDs inside them. Charter has cable boxes deployed that are over a decade old.


You're assuming those CableCARDs are actually doing something. Think BMW diesel emissions testing instead.

Why is the failure rate of CableCARD use in a Tivo so much higher than these integrated boxes? I'm not talking about provisioning, I'm talking about defects and incorrect software.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

dingojames said:


> I'm in the Orlando, FL area, and I promise you they understood what the conversation (and I've called many times). The way it is now: ONLY those who are grandfathered in from BRIGHTHOUSE are allow to "keep" the tuning adapter and cable cards BUT if ANY CHANGES AT ALL are made to the account then I will be put over to a SPECTRUM plan which means different pricing AND no more TIVO support.





jwbelcher said:


> I'm Orlando / legacy Brighthouse - I've migrated to the Spectrum plan and kept Tivo support and my Tuning adapters work (about as well as they did prior to the acquisition...). I even returned my rental box when I switched to the Spectrum plan. Right now I only have 3 cablecards w/ tuning adapters on my account.


I am in the Orlando area too and I got my Tivo set up with a brand new "Spectrum plan" in March of this year. I was also told point-blank by the phone reps that cable cards weren't supported with the new plans and I had to argue with them on the phone and get the call escalated to somebody who knew what they were talking about.

For some of these reps "It's not on this paper in front of me" = "it does not exist and I'm just going to tell you no so I don't have to dig any deeper."

Installation was a 6-hour ordeal because the techs wouldn't listen to me (download the TiVo manual and make sure they connect it as pictured, not how they think it should be connected and then re-run guided set up once the diagnostic screen shows data. The channels don't show up until you do that).

But, all said and done, I am now using my Roamio & Tivo Minis with a Spectrum plan in Orlando and I don't rent any of their stupid boxes aside from a cable card & tuning adapter.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

BobCamp1 said:


> You're assuming those CableCARDs are actually doing something. Think BMW diesel emissions testing instead.


They are. Remove it and see what happens.



> Why is the failure rate of CableCARD use in a Tivo so much higher than these integrated boxes? I'm not talking about provisioning, I'm talking about defects and incorrect software.


The problem usually is provisioning. Support personnel don't know how to configure them and assume they're "bad". There's actually nothing wrong with the vast majority of cable cards.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

OrangeCrush said:


> For some of these reps "It's not on this paper in front of me" = "it does not exist and I'm just going to tell you no so I don't have to dig any deeper."


I think it's probably much more sinister than that. These reps are trained to only say what they are told to say. This makes me believe that if many of them are consistently telling people that they have to turn in their CableCARDs, then they are saying it because Spectrum has told them to say exactly that.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I think it's probably much more sinister than that. These reps are trained to only say what they are told to say. This makes me believe that if many of them are consistently telling people that they have to turn in their CableCARDs, then they are saying it because Spectrum has told them to say exactly that.


Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I don't think it's anymore sinister than they just plain don't know about them and Spectrum doesn't exactly go out of its way to advertise that Cable Cards exist or can be ordered. They also get told that pre-Spectrum hardware from Time Warner or Bright House has to be confiscated--which some of it does, those nice compact digital tuning adapters that were only $4 a month and got all the scrambled channels aren't allowed anymore.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

mdavej said:


> They are. Remove it and see what happens.
> 
> The problem usually is provisioning. Support personnel don't know how to configure them and assume they're "bad". There's actually nothing wrong with the vast majority of cable cards.


The software could check to see if the CableCard is there during POST, and throw an error if it's not. That doesn't mean it's being used. You need to get a more sinister mind! 

I'm also sure that if they are using them, a software download to the box could change that. I'll take off my tin foil hat now.

Getting back to the thread, it's becoming apparent that Spectrum is telling people they don't support CableCards anymore in attempt to reduce their numbers. Is this just a ploy to get customers to use their box? Maybe, because they do make a lot of money off of VOD and Tivos can't do VOD. Is it a way to save money? Sure, CableCards cost a lot of money to support and hardly anybody is really using them for their intended purpose.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

BobCamp1 said:


> The software could check to see if the CableCard is there during POST, and throw an error if it's not. That doesn't mean it's being used. You need to get a more sinister mind!
> 
> I'm also sure that if they are using them, a software download to the box could change that. I'll take off my tin foil hat now.
> 
> Getting back to the thread, it's becoming apparent that Spectrum is telling people they don't support CableCards anymore in attempt to reduce their numbers. Is this just a ploy to get customers to use their box? Maybe, because they do make a lot of money off of VOD and Tivos can't do VOD. Is it a way to save money? Sure, CableCards cost a lot of money to support and hardly anybody is really using them for their intended purpose.


Except if you follow these forums as I do, you will know that every there have been reports from every major ISP that their CSR's periodically go through periods where they all say they don't support cable cards or you can't get a cable card from them. You don't need a grand conspiracy to explain why cable companies would try to discourage the use of cable cards and it's not because they spend so much money to support them, it's because they lose quite a bit of money on box rentals when cable cards are being used. They have little reason not to use a simple tactic such as lying to make some extra money, there are no financial repercussions, and in the worst case they generate some more FCC complaints, buy only god knows how many folks simply give up. If I were them, I would do exactly the same thing especially judging from the fact that a lot of folks would rather give up their first born than make an FCC complaint.
The VOD thing is not a big deal, and the largest cable company in the country seems to have found a way to offer VOD on Tivos, most of the others simply CHOOSE not to. 
Regarding if the cable card being just a non-functioning, decorative item, based on....what?? I do know that when I pulled a cable card out of a Brighthouse cable box, it would do nothing but flash a few lights and provide no signal, returning the cable card and booting the box, brought back all the channels I had at the time.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

OrangeCrush said:


> Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
> 
> I don't think it's anymore sinister than they just plain don't know about them and Spectrum doesn't exactly go out of its way to advertise that Cable Cards exist or can be ordered. They also get told that pre-Spectrum hardware from Time Warner or Bright House has to be confiscated--which some of it does, those nice compact digital tuning adapters that were only $4 a month and got all the scrambled channels aren't allowed anymore.


Even assuming it's true that the CSRs are saying they don't support CableCARDs simply because they are ignorant, the cable company still has sinister intent because they are intentionally choosing not to train their CSRs about a federally-mandated standard that they are legally required to support.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

In the words of a certain infamous loser politician: What difference does it make?!?!


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> the cable company still has sinister intent because they are intentionally choosing not to train their CSRs about a federally-mandated standard that they are legally required to support.


The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Scooby Doo said:


> The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled.


You're seriously trying to argue that a cable company can fulfil its legal obligations under the FCC's CableCARD regulations by simply handing you a non-operative CableCARD? I'm pretty sure that's a Scooby don't.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> You're seriously trying to argue that a cable company can fulfil its legal obligations under the FCC's CableCARD regulations by simply handing you a non-operative CableCARD? I'm pretty sure that's a Scooby don't.


No, and I'll admit with hindsight it wasn't a well expressed comment! But what I meant is legally they don't have to do much. Simple fact is cable companies have abandoned CableCard just as they have abandoned MOCA. The FCC goal of creating a thriving competitive set-top box market was a good idea, but it didn't work


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Scooby Doo said:


> ...... The FCC goal of creating a thriving competitive set-top box market was a good idea, but it didn't work


So you're suggesting that when creating the CableCARD system, the FCC gave no consideration to the obvious facts that cable providers would hate it and that the FCC doesn't have the enforcement power to overcome their foot dragging? What a cynical idea -- such things never happen in well-meaning governments!


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled.


100% INCORRECT.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Even assuming it's true that the CSRs are saying they don't support CableCARDs simply because they are ignorant, the cable company still has sinister intent because they are intentionally choosing not to train their CSRs about a federally-mandated standard that they are legally required to support.


Or maybe it's because a CSR will only talk to 1 or 2 CableCard users in a year if they are lucky? I have talked to CRSs who have spent a few years in the job and never talked to a CableCard user. Why would a company sink money into training for that?


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> 100% INCORRECT.


How so?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> If I were them, I would do exactly the same thing especially judging from the fact that a lot of folks would rather give up their first born than make an FCC complaint.


Me too. We have stories of techs spending hours getting Tivos to work, not just because of CableCards, but because of other issues like signal strength and interference. That costs money as well. And the MSOs' boxes work flawlessly. 


fcfc2 said:


> The VOD thing is not a big deal, and the largest cable company in the country seems to have found a way to offer VOD on Tivos, most of the others simply CHOOSE not to.


They choose not to because that's a lot of development cost for so few users. It's easier to simply get rid of CableCards, which in turn gets rid of Tivos, which in turn means all their customers have their boxes, which in turn means everybody can have VoD. But I will say that VoD demand is declining as other services like Netflix are taking their place.


fcfc2 said:


> Regarding if the cable card being just a non-functioning, decorative item, based on....what??


The fact that other companies in similar positions usually do the same thing. And MSO's have resisted CableCards in several other ways. Do you think anybody actually did any further testing besides the obvious test that you did? Also, CableCards could not support six tuners for a while when the Ceton cards and Roamios first came out, which should have never happened if the CableCards were designed and tested correctly as they were always spec'd to support six tuners.

Besides, it's also obvious that those integrated cards work very differently than the stand alone cards. The MSO boxes never have pairing issues, so we know they're being pampered. Worst case, they're just dead man switches. Do we even know if they're running the same firmware?


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

dlfl said:


> So you're suggesting that when creating the CableCARD system, the FCC gave no consideration to the obvious facts that cable providers would hate it


The FCC thought there would be a vibrant competitive retail market for set top boxes. They supported this goal with a mandate requiring cable operators to use CableCARD in their own boxes. They believed the cable operators would be forced to accept this because a large number of their customers would be using retail boxes. It didn't work, and will never work since the mandate is now gone


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> How so?


I will try to make it simple...the FCC does not simply allow cable companies to hand out non-functioning cable cards as being in compliance with their regulations and making silly suggestions that it is....is not worthy of further comment.
"Simple fact is cable companies have abandoned CableCard just as they have abandoned MOCA." More nonsense, the dropped "mandate" to which you are referring to only applies to placing cable cards in their own new boxes, the mandate to support stand alone cable cards is still in effect. 
The idea that cable companies have also abandoned MoCA is even more silly, only Spectrum has stopped offering whole home DVR service currently which of course used MoCA exactly like most other ISP's. In the former TWC areas where whole home DVR's are still in service....they are also still using MoCA. MoCA is not Tivo specific and it continues to be used by almost all major ISP's with their boxes and networking accessories.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Scooby Doo said:


> The FCC thought there would be a vibrant competitive retail market for set top boxes. They supported this goal with a mandate requiring cable operators to use CableCARD in their own boxes. They believed the cable operators would be forced to accept this because a large number of their customers would be using retail boxes. It didn't work, and will never work since the mandate is now gone


What (other than big brother's wishful thinking) made them think it would work? Were the cable operators in favor of it? Unless they were it would be pretty obvious they would not support it (which they haven't). And the FCC doesn't have the capability to enforce their support (which has been verified by experience). As to the "vibrant competitive retail market for set top boxes", does the government have a good record of forecasting future markets? I don't think so -- but that didn't stop them, and usually doesn't.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> the FCC does not simply allow cable companies to hand out non-functioning cable cards as being in compliance with their regulations


I never said it did.


fcfc2 said:


> the dropped "mandate" to which you are referring to only applies to placing cable cards in their own new boxes, the mandate to support stand alone cable cards is still in effect.


Correct. But dropping the mandate signals the FCC has given up on the dream of a competitive retail market for set top boxes


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

BobCamp1 said:


> Me too. We have stories of techs spending hours getting Tivos to work, not just because of CableCards, but because of other issues like signal strength and interference. That costs money as well. And the MSOs' boxes work flawlessly.
> 
> They choose not to because that's a lot of development cost for so few users. It's easier to simply get rid of CableCards, which in turn gets rid of Tivos, which in turn means all their customers have their boxes, which in turn means everybody can have VoD. But I will say that VoD demand is declining as other services like Netflix are taking their place.
> 
> ...


Bob, sending techs out to the home just to activate and pair cable cards is a completely useless effort unless the particular tech happens to know someone in the back end who knows how to properly activate and pair the card is no better than the average customer. Issues like signal strength and interference are common to all systems, this is not Tivo specific. This is why I always recommend filing an FCC complaint to get the attention of higher ups in the company, who have the ability to actually find and enlist the service of one of the few competent employees. And then miraculously the cable card which languished for days and days...suddenly starts working properly.
"The fact that other companies in similar positions usually do the same thing." Absolutely no idea to what you are referring.
Totally agree that MSO's have first fought and then continued to resist the use and development of cable cards, they were moderately successful until the current administration took over, now more so. The whole reason MSO's were forced to use cable cards was with the understanding that the MSO's would undermine the use of cable cards and without making them integral to their own boxes, they would likely succeed.
"Besides, it's also obvious that those integrated cards work very differently than the stand alone cards. The MSO boxes never have pairing issues, so we know they're being pampered. Worst case, they're just dead man switches. Do we even know if they're running the same firmware?"
Yikes, before the M cards, there were S cards which only supported one tuner. Cable cards on some systems may or may not be running the same firmware. I have see reports of M cards only working with 4 tuners, until their firmware was updated. I have also read reports from some systems in Canada in which cable cards removed from MSO boxes worked perfectly in cable card devices.
Also, there are some smaller MSO's who use Tivo equipment and these folks seem to have no issue with pairing or using cable cards.
Many of your arguments/theories are completely unsupported and fall into the category of "the absence of proof is not evidence". 
See, Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

dlfl said:


> What (other than big brother's wishful thinking) made them think it would work?


Nothing. And not surprisingly it didn't work!


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> I never said it did.


"The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled." 
Actually, it seems you did say that.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> Actually, it seems you did say that.


I have already said above in my response to tarheelblue32 that it wasn't a well expressed comment and that was not the intended meaning. You just chose to ignore that clarification


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> I have already said above in my response to tarheelblue32 that it wasn't a well expressed comment and that was not the intended meaning. You just chose to ignore that clarification


I think you said, you never said that....you did in fact say pretty much exactly that. What you chose to call a clarification, is actually just a denial, absolutely nothing was added to "clarify" your meaning. Or is this one of those, "the truth is not the truth" things?


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> I think you said, you never said that....you did in fact say pretty much exactly that.


What is said:
_"The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled."_​What tarheelblue32 and you interpreted this to mean:
_"a cable company can fulfil its legal obligations under the FCC's CableCARD regulations by simply handing you a non-operative CableCARD"_​My apologies if you believe these are "pretty much exactly" the same. I don't. In particular I never said providing a "non-operative" card was OK


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> What is said:
> _"The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled."_​What tarheelblue32 and you interpreted this to mean:
> _"a cable company can fulfil its legal obligations under the FCC's CableCARD regulations by simply handing you a non-operative CableCARD"_​My apologies if you believe these are "pretty much exactly" the same. I don't. In particular I never said providing a "non-operative" card was OK


And yet you still haven't "clarified" exactly what you did mean, what you stated clearly implied and only implied that providing a non-operative cable card would satisfy the cable company's obligation. Without some further actual "clarification" of exactly what you did mean it is impossible to interpret your statement in any other fashion. Again, your clarification remains a simple denial, i.e., "I did not mean what I stated."
And since, this circular logic seems to be repeating itself, yet again, I simply tire of the effort.


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> And yet you still haven't "clarified" exactly what you did mean


Oh my goodness. What I said:
_"The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a card. Obligation fulfilled."_​Clarification:
_"The FCC rules require cable operators to "provide" cableCARDs, not to "support" them. Walk in to their store and I suspect they will provide a *functioning* card. Obligation fulfilled."_​Satisfied?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

_"not to "support" them." All but that part of your statement._


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## Scooby Doo (Dec 18, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> _"not to "support" them." All but that part of your statement._


I really don't think anyone else, myself included, is interested in continuing this discussion


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Scooby Doo said:


> I really don't think anyone else, myself included, is interested in continuing this discussion


Totally agreed and previously stated. I will not respond to any of your comments on this thread...have a nice day


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