# I give up



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

Giving up


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## simon7 (Mar 26, 2008)

caddyroger said:


> Giving up


Wow, after five years.... the Premiere has really alienated people. Hope Tivo learns a lesson from this before it is too late for them.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

simon7 said:


> Wow, after five years.... the Premiere has really alienated people. Hope Tivo learns a lesson from this before it is too late for them.


Alienated _some_ people who vent on this site. I doubt the people here are anything more than a drop in the ocean of the total number of TiVo customers. I don't think TiVo will notice much.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> Alienated _some_ people who vent on this site. I doubt the people here are anything more than a drop in the ocean of the total number of TiVo customers. I don't think TiVo will notice much.


The TiVo devoted helped grow the service, and can continue to do so. Alienate them and you're cutting out some influential users that can make many, many future sales for TiVo. I know I personally am responsible for at *least* 50 TiVo purchases by friends and family. Probably more than 100 in actuality, because we've had more than 12 units just in our OWN household since series 1. Extrapolate that math out and there's a lot of influence with the early adopters and power users.

I'm not giving up, but I have stopped recommending TiVo to people I would have told about it before until I see what happens with this late April Fool's joke they call Premiere. It's very sad. I'm still hopeful, but much less so than a month after launch after seeing how lackluster the improvements in 14.4 and 14.5 were. It will be a long road to "acceptable" functionality (not even the fantasy that was advertised at launch).


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

I should have said I giving up making the poll. With the 14.5 update the HDUI is slow but usable. I not giving up on the Tivo.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

ha ha!

It is quite obvious people don't know how to read here and ready to make "I know it all" assumptions.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jmill said:


> ha ha!
> 
> It is quite obvious people don't know how to read here and ready to make "I know it all" assumptions.


There was nothing to read- the OP didn't pick an appropriate subject and said nothing meaningful in the post.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

I've had my Premiere for a few weeks and the only problem I've noticed is that I get "Out of Memory" errors when using the Netflix app sometimes. I've never had a crash or lock up.

Overall I like the Premiere. My biggest complaints are that the menus are slow and I'd like the look and feel of the menus to be the same no matter where you are.


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

TrueTurbo said:


> Alienated _some_ people who vent on this site. I doubt the people here are anything more than a drop in the ocean of the total number of TiVo customers. I don't think TiVo will notice much.


No matter how hard you guys try to convince yourself Tivo is just going downhill. It is a matter of time... Right now there is no other solid DVR option other than Tivo, and Tivo core functionality still works awesome, but Tivo is lagging, Premiere is a DUD, and once there is another cablecard DVR option attrition, will get even worse.
Tivo's stock and this analysis echo my worst fears You're Going the Wrong Way, TiVo


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

crxssi said:


> There was nothing to read- the OP didn't pick an appropriate subject and said nothing meaningful in the post.


yet we still got the know it all assumptions on TiVo death watch. 

Simply put - no luxury item vendor is going to see increased growth in this economy unless they are bare bones cheap to buy. Recurring monthly expense items - top of the axe list. Heck people are seeing basic cable as a luxury any more.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

alokkola said:


> Right now there is no other solid DVR option other than Tivo, and Tivo core functionality still works awesome, but Tivo is lagging, [/URL]


Umm this makes no sense, if there are no other options then what is TiVo lagging?
There is however another option - Moxi and they have pros that TiVo does not and vice versa. Still the MOxi box could not sell enough to keep Digeo afloat and they had to sell off.

The analysis is simply that premiere was not the shiny new toy that something like an iPhone is, but DVRs are simply in a different market that is very tough.


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

Ok, I have to spell each word one by one. Don't act as if you don't know this already....



ZeoTiVo said:


> Umm this makes no sense, if there are no other options then what is TiVo lagging?


Innovation !!!! What "NEW" has Tivo done last few years???



ZeoTiVo said:


> There is however another option - Moxi and they have pros that TiVo does not and vice versa. Still the MOxi box could not sell enough to keep Digeo afloat and they had to sell off.


Moxi is not as good and that is why I said "Right now there is no other solid DVR option other than Tivo"



ZeoTiVo said:


> The analysis is simply that premiere was not the shiny new toy that something like an iPhone is, but DVRs are simply in a different market that is very tough.


You missed the key fact "TiVo closed out the quarter with 2.4 million TiVo subscribers. A year ago, there were 3.1 million TiVo heads." nearly 25% dropped out



ZeoTiVo said:


> Simply put - no luxury item vendor is going to see increased growth in this economy unless they are bare bones cheap to buy. Recurring monthly expense items - top of the axe list. Heck people are seeing basic cable as a luxury any more.


I used to consider Tivo in the class of innovators as Apple, Google and Netflix. These companies are still doing well. Proves the point that Tivo is losing on innovation. Every little company has a HD media box out there but none have cablecard, which is why I am still with Tivo.


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## jdmass (Dec 1, 2002)

alokkola said:


> I used to consider Tivo in the class of innovators as Apple, Google and Netflix. These companies are still doing well. Proves the point that Tivo is losing on innovation. Every little company has a HD media box out there but none have cablecard, which is why I am still with Tivo.


+1

The so-called "over the top" video market is exploding. In terms of streaming content there are dedicated boxes, blue-ray players, and even internet-capable TVs now that have surpassed what TiVo (currently) offers.

For cable-specific content, TiVo still is the best option, but the Premiere is being marketed as the ONE solution for TV, Internet Video, and Music. At this point, it falls seriously short of the mark.

I'm not ready to give up on TiVo, which is why, after much deliberation, I just ordered a Premiere, but I'd feel a lot better if I saw some evidence that TiVo has some sort of vision for effectively competing in the non-cable space.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jdmass said:


> For cable-specific content, TiVo still is the best option, but the Premiere is being marketed as the ONE solution for TV, Internet Video, and Music. At this point, it falls seriously short of the mark.
> 
> I'm not ready to give up on TiVo, which is why, after much deliberation, I just ordered a Premiere, but I'd feel a lot better if I saw some evidence that TiVo has some sort of vision for effectively competing in the non-cable space.


I am not ready to give up either and like you, after much deliberation, I just ordered a Premiere also (arrives Monday). But I have to agree with you and others- there is very little innovative about the TiVo Premiere. There are already other devices with more tuners, better Netflix, better streaming, better file formats, better backup options, faster interfaces, more applications, more storage options, more ports, etc, etc. There is no *one* box that has it all quite yet (unless you make it yourself) but I see that changing soon. TiVo needs to be careful- pretty soon HTPC will be their #1 competitor since it has cable card compatibility.

But if you want to see innovation (although lack of cable card), look at this for an example: http://www.elementmypc.com/main/index.php And it is free & Linux based.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

alokkola said:


> You missed the key fact "TiVo closed out the quarter with 2.4 million TiVo subscribers. A year ago, there were 3.1 million TiVo heads." nearly 25% dropped out
> 
> I used to consider Tivo in the class of innovators as Apple, Google and Netflix. These companies are still doing well.


you missed the key fact called the current economy.
Also you missed the fact that even the shiny new Moxi that was hailed as innovative DID NOT SELL. 
If TiVo knew that a large market existed in which folks would spring 800$ for a DVR existed then they could innovate away. That market is simply just not that big given that most folks just tell the cable company to send them a DVR.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

alokkola said:


> Ok, I have to spell each word one by one.


PS - how do you spell words more than one at a time? 
The phrase is "Looks Like I will have to spell it out for you"


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> PS - how do you spell words more than one at a time?
> The phrase is "Looks Like I will have to spell it out for you"


Digressing, are you??
You beat me in English Grammar. But facts are facts you can't beat me on them.



ZeoTiVo said:


> you missed the key fact called the current economy.
> Also you missed the fact that even the shiny new Moxi that was hailed as innovative DID NOT SELL.
> If TiVo knew that a large market existed in which folks would spring 800$ for a DVR existed then they could innovate away. That market is simply just not that big given that most folks just tell the cable company to send them a DVR.


Don't blame it on the economy. Good companies, I repeat, like Google, Netflix and Apple, are still doing well on their turf. I'd bet if any of these came out with a cablecard inclusive DVR option, Tivo stock will crash. Did we not pay $700 for a Premiere? Tivo cannot even keep its fans, like me, satisfied what to say about folks who just bought into their marketing for the first time. I totally agree Moxi failed but look which company was behind it. I don't consider Tivo in the same cadre, well at least not yet, hoping Tivo is listening!!!


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## forum junkie (Oct 2, 2004)

jdmass said:


> For cable-specific content, TiVo still is the best option, but the Premiere is being marketed as the ONE solution for TV, Internet Video, and Music. At this point, it falls seriously short of the mark.


This says it best, for cable it is best but for all in one it took a step back with the OTA. Except for those in strong signal areas it seems to have problems with the new tuners. Most are probably cable but TIVO has been a popular OTA receiver for quite awhile. Now that channel master is marketing the old Dish PAL DVR as the CM-7000 there may be a place to defect to. Does it do everything TIVO does - no but it's free. All the extras is what the supsciption is for. With the economy the way it is I know quite a few dropping their cable for free OTA and they may decide it is all they need. The CM lacks the streaming capabilities (for now anyway) but CM didn't take it over just to sit on it. As jdmass pointed out, streaming TV, Internet and Music is where it is. So if CM adds this - there is a option. If the big Networks figure out how to market themselfs on demand, something already being talked about, will we even need a DVR ?


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## ttech10 (Aug 20, 2010)

alokkola said:


> Digressing, are you??
> You beat me in English Grammar. But facts are facts you can't beat me on them.
> 
> Don't blame it on the economy. Good companies, I repeat, like Google, Netflix and Apple, are still doing well on their turf. I'd bet if any of these came out with a cablecard inclusive DVR option, Tivo stock will crash. Did we not pay $700 for a Premiere? Tivo cannot even keep its fans, like me, satisfied what to say about folks who just bought into their marketing for the first time. I totally agree Moxi failed but look which company was behind it. I don't consider Tivo in the same cadre, well at least not yet, hoping Tivo is listening!!!


Google is doing good in what? GoogleTV? The SOFTWARE that people don't have to pay anything extra for?

Netflix? You mean the $9 a month service with no additional costs? The thing that doesn't cost an introductory $399?

Apple? In laptops/phones/music players/computers? Or AppleTV? You know, the thing that isn't doing that great. It's been out for 3 years and I've never seen one outside of a store or have ever heard of someone actually owning one. Not to mention many other cheaper products do much better than AppleTV.

None of those products come even close to comparing with TiVo in terms of use or cost. Of course Google is going to do well with YouTube, search engines and software as it's all either free or cheap. Same with Netflix, it's incredibly cheap. And AppleTV isn't in the same category as TiVo and everything else they offer isn't something that you can simply borrow from your cable company for a small fee.


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

Everyone should be honest with themselves.

The whole Tivo experience is losing its shine. Really, Tivo has marketed the one-for-all & all-for-one box as the new Tivo experience. Remember, "Inventing the DVR was just the first step" or whatever it was that Tivo used to hype up the Premier. What can I say? Talk about false expectations. They come out with a box that has a crippled HD interface. The other home media apps look like add-ons. There are visible seams. Tivo as a music player is a joke. The whole method of having to share out directories and then have that single-layer flat interface to access them. As a picture viewer, it's about the same as a music player. Don't get me started on the whole Netflix debacle. It's why have now own a Neflix enabled blu-ray.

Why do I have Tivo? Because it's the best at what it's meant to do. Record the TV I want so I can watch it when I want. All that other stuff is gravy...and not very good gravy.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

There is no one-for-all box. There will always be someone who does certain aspects better so there will be a need for more than one box to get the best of everything.


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

jtreid said:


> Everyone should be honest with themselves.
> 
> The whole Tivo experience is losing its shine. Really, Tivo has marketed the one-for-all & all-for-one box as the new Tivo experience. Remember, "Inventing the DVR was just the first step" or whatever it was that Tivo used to hype up the Premier. What can I say? Talk about false expectations. They come out with a box that has a crippled HD interface. The other home media apps look like add-ons. There are visible seams. Tivo as a music player is a joke. The whole method of having to share out directories and then have that single-layer flat interface to access them. As a picture viewer, it's about the same as a music player. Don't get me started on the whole Netflix debacle. It's why have now own a Neflix enabled blu-ray.
> 
> Why do I have Tivo? Because it's the best at what it's meant to do. Record the TV I want so I can watch it when I want. All that other stuff is gravy...and not very good gravy.


+1


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

ttech10 said:


> Google is doing good in what? GoogleTV? The SOFTWARE that people don't have to pay anything extra for?
> 
> Netflix? You mean the $9 a month service with no additional costs? The thing that doesn't cost an introductory $399?
> 
> ...


Come on, read closer! I listed these 3 companies just for comparison sake to show smart companies are still doing good even in this economy. I am NOT saying any of them has a product competing with Tivo, which is why I still use Tivo. I am just saying IF and WHEN they create a cablecard DVR option, they will give Tivo a run for money.
Even though you try and defend your Tivo, remember 1 out of 4 are giving up so they are seeing a different picture. Key fact "TiVo closed out the quarter with 2.4 million TiVo subscribers. A year ago, there were 3.1 million TiVo heads." That simply means people are switching to the crappy cable company DVRs because Tivo is not giving them anything SPECIAL and not because fewer people are using DVRs in general.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

alokkola said:


> Come on, read closer! I listed these 3 companies just for comparison sake to show smart companies are still doing good even in this economy. I am NOT saying any of them has a product competing with Tivo, which is why I still use Tivo. I am just saying IF and WHEN they create a cablecard DVR option, they will give Tivo a run for money.
> Even though you try and defend your Tivo, remember 1 out of 4 are giving up so they are seeing a different picture. Key fact "TiVo closed out the quarter with 2.4 million TiVo subscribers. A year ago, there were 3.1 million TiVo heads." That simply means people are switching to the crappy cable company DVRs because Tivo is not giving them anything SPECIAL and not because fewer people are using DVRs in general.


TiVo does give a better user experience (TP in HDUI may be the exception), it's the hassle factor that I think is hurting TiVo, get a cable co DVR and it covers all the cable co functions without any added stuff (like tuning adapters, wireless adapters etc) and if it stops working they give you a free replacement without making you go through hoops. Few cable co DVR owners post on this form and most are satisfied with the cable co DVR for what they use it for.


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## RAlfieri (Apr 3, 2008)

The biggest challenge for the cable company DVR's (except perhaps U-Verse) is the user interface. On the Comcast Scientific Atlanta boxes, it is a nightmare. 

The issues I have seen with the Premiere not playing well with Comcast cablecards is a first for me. My Series 3 worked flawlessly. The Premiere keeps dropping channel lock. 

There is nothing wrong on the cable side that I can see. I've gone through TiVo tech support and they are struggling with this as well. Signal is over 92. Signal to noise ratio is excellent. All cable boxes in the house aside from the Tivo have instant tuning. I have also been through 6 cablecards with the same results.

The Tivo Premiere, on the other hand, loses channels after a while. For me, it is unstable and unpredictable. I have a third Premiere coming today. This will be the "3 Strikes" rule. If I have the same problem with the third box, I will have no choice but to abandon Tivo and go to either the Comcast DVR (Ugh!) or switch to U-Verse (Mixed reviews from what I hear). 

I realize that not everyone is having this trouble with the Premiere, but it seems to me based on postings that a significant number of us are. I don't see how this cannot be a Tivo hardware/software issue with the Premiere.

Regards,
Rob


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

lessd said:


> TiVo does give a better user experience (TP in HDUI may be the exception), it's the hassle factor that I think is hurting TiVo, get a cable co DVR and it covers all the cable co functions without any added stuff (like tuning adapters, wireless adapters etc) and if it stops working they give you a free replacement without making you go through hoops. Few cable co DVR owners post on this form and most are satisfied with the cable co DVR for what they use it for.


I can give some perspective as (very recent) former cable co DVR renter. Those DVRs, while clunky and underfeatured, are actually usable. Mine used to generally reliably record and play back. Most basic DVR things were there - record by name, to do list, live TV trick play (except 30 second skip), season pass priorities, picking up later episode of lower priority series if the first showing conflicts). On the minus side, the search was very primitive (beginning of the title only), the box was sometimes very sluggish, limited storage (small hard drives and no real support of eSATA), and no fancy features. The advantages over third party DVRs include no need for tuning adapter, relatively seemlessly cable co VOD and PPV, no need for network, and if it breaks or a newer model arrives, just swap it for no fee. I actually once got a newer model, while keeping the old one for a few days until I finished watching the recordings on it, being charged only prorated DVR fee for the days I had both. That is hard to beat for a third party box. Had I not had ReplayTV before, I may have even considered cable DVR good enough. But, I did know better - just not having 30 second skip for football games is a good enough reason to look elsewhere. It also annoyed me that I could not exclude anything (channels I don't receive or even VOD) from search results or from guide, making each have way too many unwanted things to navigate around. I waited a long while hoping to get a DVR that would not need a tuning adapter, as, according to some posts from a while ago, local Time Warner used to update firmware in tuning adapers something like weekly or biweekly, and when that happened, Tivo/Moxi would perform no more recordings without a manual reboot of DVR and/or tuning adapter. Eventually, those updates subsided and it also became clear that tuning adapter-less third party DVR is not going to happen any time soon, so I decided to get the best out there, which, for me, happened to be Tivo Premiere (well, I waited until TP bugs have been ironed out to a sufficient degree, and, reading between lines on this forum, the recent release seem to do that). I did consider Moxi, but its feature set seemed clearly weeker, except for MRV, which I did not need. I waited with some trepidation for a cable card + tuning adapter install, but I was lucky that the TW tech who came knew what he was doing, so it was quick and easy. I know it is still early to tell, but so far (since Wednesday), Tivo (and tuning adapter) have been working fine; actually, on SDV channels, sometimes there would be a message that it is not available; with Time Warner DVR, I used to have to hit a button on the remote to try again, while Tivo will automatically keep trying to tune.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

alokkola said:


> Digressing, are you??
> You beat me in English Grammar. But facts are facts you can't beat me on them.
> 
> Don't blame it on the economy. Good companies, I repeat, like Google, Netflix and Apple, are still doing well on their turf. I'd bet if any of these came out with a cablecard inclusive DVR option, Tivo stock will crash.


None of them sell DVRs and none of them, especially Apple see a business model in DVRs worth pursuing. Innovation alone will not make a profit in the DVR space. You can try and argue around the fact that the DVR market is a hard market space to do business in but Moxi will just sit there as a glaring example that refutes your arguments.

TiVO knows this as well and has a strong focus on making deals with MSOs versus a strong focus on what you call innovation.


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## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ...
> Simply put - no luxury item vendor is going to see increased growth in this economy unless they are bare bones cheap to buy. Recurring monthly expense items - top of the axe list. Heck people are seeing basic cable as a luxury any more.


True, Tivo is a luxury, but we actually switched from Dish Network to our Tivo Premiere with lifetime to eliminate our recurring monthly $47 fees from DN. Even though the upfront cost is great at around $700, we have nothing more to pay ever, until Tivo goes belly up, or broadcast TV disappears. Only 15 months from now we would have been up to $700 in payments with DN. Sure, we have less channels, but the extra channels were the luxury. TV with DVR is a necessity.  I know we are probably the exception, as most people don't want to fork out $700 at once. But if we suppose our Premiere lasts five years, we're saving $2100+ over that period, assuming DN fees don't go up (you know they will).

Our Tivo is also saving us money because it allows us to receive and view digital broadcasts on our 1994 television. So once we dropped satellite, we would have had to buy another box or another TV to watch any programming at all. We could not receive any broadcast TV without the tuners present in the Tivo. Sure, there are other external digital tuner boxes for OTA - how many of them are dual tuner DVRs?

Sometimes the cheap comes out expensive, and the expensive comes out cheaper. People just need to look beyond the monthly bill to the total cost. :up:


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

aaroncgi said:


> Sometimes the cheap comes out expensive, and the expensive comes out cheaper. People just need to look beyond the monthly bill to the total cost. :up:


I agree with that, and my case was similar on getting my first series 2 since my cable company wanted me to upgrade to digital service to get a DVR from them.

But like you say, you have to pony up the upfront money to save over the long term. Many have trouble doing that right now.


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

I would say there is no question (in my mind) that the premiere is a GOOD box. It's probably the best DVR out there right now. My wife (and my 5 year old) can use it easily and this is about the only piece of electronics that she vocally supports or cares about. That being said, it is losing its innovative edge. A few years ago, I would say the tivo HD is GREAT box. The tivo premier isn't 'less good' compared to the HD, but it just doesnt bring much new to the table, while at the same time the competition is rapidly improving. It promises lots of new features (it is advertised as exactly what tivo needed to produce-guess the ad guys get it), but it doesnt deliver.

So while we will continue to love and enjoy our premiere, there are many companies that are chomping at tivos tail in innovation and tivo will soon be passed. Tivo would have succeeded in blowing its tremendous innovation lead (much like palm and windows mobile have in the mobile world, or netscape in internet browsers, etc)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wp746911 said:


> So while we will continue to love and enjoy our premiere, there are many companies that are chomping at tivos tail in innovation and tivo will soon be passed. Tivo would have succeeded in blowing its tremendous innovation lead (much like palm and windows mobile have in the mobile world, or netscape in internet browsers, etc)


again I ask - what companies are making DVRs that are chomping at TiVo's tail?


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> again I ask - what companies are making DVRs that are chomping at TiVo's tail?


Only time will tell whether or not companies are trying to get in on the cable TV DVR business. I don't foresee any issues technically. Facts are "Tivo was up to 4.4M subcribers in 2006, as of 2010 Q2 they were down to 2.4M". Wake up!! even though the other companies are not directly entering the cable TV DVR business, but they are eating the subscribers away.

Again and again several of us have echoed that Tivo has not done anything new or innovative these past 4 years and folks like you keep defending that Tivo does not need to. Don't you get it, we love our Tivo boxes so we want Tivo to survive but Tivo needs to work harder to show their $700 box (including lifetime) is worth it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

alokkola said:


> Again and again several of us have echoed that Tivo has not done anything new or innovative these past 4 years and folks like you keep defending that Tivo does not need to. Don't you get it, we love our Tivo boxes so we want Tivo to survive but Tivo needs to work harder to show their $700 box (including lifetime) is worth it.


All I am simply saying is that innovation alone is not going to suddenly open up the DVR market. I pointed to Moxi as having things like streaming and other innovations like DLNA. I do not see any significant % jumping over to Moxi simply because of the innovations and certainly Moxi itself was not selling well either - just like TiVo.

SO I can point to concrete example for my statements, but others are just using vague - someone in an analogy mode - I am just asking for good, relevant concrete examples.


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> All I am simply saying is that innovation alone is not going to suddenly open up the DVR market. I pointed to Moxi as having things like streaming and other innovations like DLNA. I do not see any significant % jumping over to Moxi simply because of the innovations and certainly Moxi itself was not selling well either - just like TiVo.
> 
> SO I can point to concrete example for my statements, but others are just using vague - someone in an analogy mode - I am just asking for good, relevant concrete examples.


As a DVR, a Tivo box cannot do much. A cable DVR's function is to record TV, store TV and play TV and that Tivo does well. When I am talking about innovation, I don't want Tivo changing anything in how a DVR functions, well maybe add streaming clients . I want my EXPENSIVE Tivo to include top of the line interfaces for Netflix, Youtube, Pandora and some of the other apps that are included in Roku, etc. Tivo Premiere has the USB port so why not create an interface so you can play the content on portable USB disks too, like WDTV, FreeAgent Theater, etc. If Tivo looks in that direction, it will give all others a run for money. Then I would say Tivo delivered on Tivo's Premiere promise "Millions of possibilities, one screen, one remote, one box".

And please don't tell me the (used to be) talented folks at Tivo couldn't have done this in 4 years they had.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

alokkola said:


> As a DVR, a Tivo box cannot do much. A cable DVR's function is to record TV, store TV and play TV and that Tivo does well. When I am talking about innovation, I don't want Tivo changing anything in how a DVR functions, well maybe add streaming clients . I want my EXPENSIVE Tivo to include top of the line interfaces for Netflix, Youtube, Pandora and some of the other apps that are included in Roku, etc. Tivo Premiere has the USB port so why not create an interface so you can play the content on portable USB disks too, like WDTV, FreeAgent Theater, etc. If Tivo looks in that direction, it will give all others a run for money. Then I would say Tivo delivered on Tivo's Premiere promise "Millions of possibilities, one screen, one remote, one box".
> 
> And please don't tell me the (used to be) talented folks at Tivo couldn't have done this in 4 years they had.


Every is talking about Roku being better with Netflix but it does not record programs like a Tivo does. When you compare products keep in the same type. What other dvrs offer Netflix.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> All I am simply saying is that innovation alone is not going to suddenly open up the DVR market. I pointed to Moxi as having things like streaming and other innovations like DLNA. I do not see any significant % jumping over to Moxi simply because of the innovations and certainly Moxi itself was not selling well either - just like TiVo.
> 
> SO I can point to concrete example for my statements, but others are just using vague - someone in an analogy mode - I am just asking for good, relevant concrete examples.


I believe if Moxi has a transfer of programs like the tivo does Moxi would sell more units. I might have bought one if it was able to transfer programs.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

alokkola said:


> Only time will tell whether or not companies are trying to get in on the cable TV DVR business. I don't foresee any issues technically. Facts are "Tivo was up to 4.4M subcribers in 2006, as of 2010 Q2 they were down to 2.4M". Wake up!! even though the other companies are not directly entering the cable TV DVR business, but they are eating the subscribers away.
> 
> Again and again several of us have echoed that Tivo has not done anything new or innovative these past 4 years and folks like you keep defending that Tivo does not need to. Don't you get it, we love our Tivo boxes so we want Tivo to survive but Tivo needs to work harder to show their $700 box (including lifetime) is worth it.


That drop in subscriptions is mostly related to the DirecTV losses. I was one of them that left DirecTV because they were going to stop supporting TiVo. Of course they announced a new partnership but the new box has not materialized yet. Once it does, the subscriber numbers should go back up. But will it go back up to previous levels?


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

caddyroger said:


> Every is talking about Roku being better with Netflix but it does not record programs like a Tivo does. When you compare products keep in the same type. What other dvrs offer Netflix.


I repeat...
As a DVR, a Tivo box cannot do much. A cable DVR's function is to record TV, store TV and play TV and that Tivo does well.

But...
An innovative company is not one who makes "me too!!" product. I expect Tivo to be disruptive and NOT wait for competitive products to challenge them.


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## alokkola (Apr 18, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> That drop in subscriptions is mostly related to the DirecTV losses. I was one of them that left DirecTV because they were going to stop supporting TiVo. Of course they announced a new partnership but the new box has not materialized yet. Once it does, the subscriber numbers should go back up. But will it go back up to previous levels?


Again.... I don't understand why you guys are so defensive towards Tivo. On your subscriber count maybe you are right, maybe not.

But I do not see anything new they have done in last 4 years. They they have come out with Tivo Premiere which has a hardware with lot of potential but software-wise it is the same old Series 3. They have not yet delivered on Premiere's promise.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> That drop in subscriptions is mostly related to the DirecTV losses. I was one of them that left DirecTV because they were going to stop supporting TiVo. Of course they announced a new partnership but the new box has not materialized yet. Once it does, the subscriber numbers should go back up. But will it go back up to previous levels?


Unless the DirectV TiVo supports the new whole-house DVR sreaming, it will be inferior to the current DVR. My DirecTV dvr is also faster than the TiVo Premiere.

- Rich


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

alokkola said:


> Again.... I don't understand why you guys are so defensive towards Tivo. On your subscriber count maybe you are right, maybe not.
> 
> But I do not see anything new they have done in last 4 years. They they have come out with Tivo Premiere which has a hardware with lot of potential but software-wise it is the same old Series 3. They have not yet delivered on Premiere's promise.


No one is defending TiVo as being innovative - and since we all have TiVo DVRs - of course we want them to have a better Netflix interface and so forth and some of us might buy an extra one - and others might switch off to Moxi if they had some specific feature the person uses on TiVo now.
And man did they over-hype the announcement of the premiere. It was embarrassing.
But no one has shown any real meat to this contention that if TiVo was pushing out better interfaces and other innovative stuff that they *would sell more boxes/subscriptions*. If that does not happen then spending more money to boost the innovation is not going to give them a decent return on that money spent - and TiVo is a for profit company that is having a very hard time making that profit. My argument is a business case argument not one of saying you are wrong, TiVo is just innovating away.


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

ok how's this- my friends have at&t uverse, I've used the dvr- it isnt that bad. Now i've used comcasts dvr and I would rather kill myself than use that device. But the uverse one is pretty good. Maybe not tivo quality but pretty good- and it comes with the service.

Also, in terms of innovation, as pointed out, its not just dvr innovation, but network innovation. Tivo needs the best pandora/netflix/amazon experience. For crying out loud its a $300 box that does netflix much much worse than some $100 boxes.

Would that win tivo millions of new subscribers? Maybe not. But it would keep those currently subscribed happier, and people like me would rush to replace my old tivohd (I own one premier and one hd). And some people would buy into it. As it is now, its hard to convince nontivo users to switch.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

alokkola said:


> Again.... I don't understand why you guys are so defensive towards Tivo. On your subscriber count maybe you are right, maybe not.
> 
> But I do not see anything new they have done in last 4 years. They they have come out with Tivo Premiere which has a hardware with lot of potential but software-wise it is the same old Series 3. They have not yet delivered on Premiere's promise.


 For I could care less about amazon netflix youtube, and others appls. It all most does what it is designed for. I do like the fact that it slow, the second cpu is not working and the all of HD menus are not in place. 
If Tivo starts working the nextflix and the other bull **** before fixing the speed HD menu and cpu issues fixed then I might go to moxi. Tivo then can go out business and leave every one to buy 5 different equipment.


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## chrislemasters (Jan 13, 2007)

I simply switched back to the SD menus until the software is ready for prime-time. No biggie. But - I'm am really frustrated with the lack of MRV Streaming, as COX has flagged every single show as restricted for transfer. 

Good thing COX doesn't offer an MRV DVR yet.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

chrislemasters said:


> But - I'm am really frustrated with the lack of MRV Streaming, as COX has flagged every single show as restricted for transfer.


While I agree that is a stupid thing to do, it might just be your Cox and not mine (or perhaps the channels you watch). When I checked on the web interface, every (non-OTA) program I had recorded was available for download (which means also MRV).


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