# sling TV and tivo



## johnfasc

So will we ever be able to subscribe and get the sling TV programing using a TiVo. The stations they offer would put me on the verge of cutting the cable completely.....


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## rainwater

I doubt the TiVo platform is a high priority for Dish since I can't imagine that would be a huge market (given the low number of OTA only users). However, they are opening up the service on plenty of other platforms so it shouldn't be a problem trying it out.


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## bradleys

Right,

Sling tv is directed at OTA customers specifically... Doesn't seem like a great fit for either tivo or Dish.


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## PCurry57

johnfasc said:


> So will we ever be able to subscribe and get the sling TV programing using a TiVo. The stations they offer would put me on the verge of cutting the cable completely.....


Since Sling TV has no live streaming it's unlikely. I would think.low priority, with the SlingTv being compatible with fire tv and fire tv stick, Chromecast coming I ask why.


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## Philmatic

PCurry57 said:


> Since Sling TV has no live streaming it's unlikely. I would think.low priority, with the SlingTv being compatible with fire tv and fire tv stick, Chromecast coming I ask why.


You do realize they do in fact have live streaming? You're thinking of SlingBox and we're talking about Sling TV, which is a true IPTV service for $20 that streams several real channels.

http://www.sling.com/

A Roamio OTA + Sling TV + Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and HBO GO would be amazeballs. Add Plex and I'll give you my first born child.


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## MobileJeremy

This would be the cord cutters solution all the way around. Tivo admins wake up and send this to production!


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## rainwater

MobileJeremy said:


> This would be the cord cutters solution all the way around. Tivo admins wake up and send this to production!


Send what to production? This service is offered by Dish. I doubt it would make very much sense to offer it on TiVo given the small number of users it would appeal to on the TiVo platform.


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## impiouspunk

rainwater said:


> Send what to production? This service is offered by Dish. I doubt it would make very much sense to offer it on TiVo given the small number of users it would appeal to on the TiVo platform.


This has to be the most asinine comment I've seen. You do realize Tivo makes a dedicated OTA model? The whole reason I purchased a Tivo had nothing to do with cable, or satellite. I purchased several Tivo boxes so I can record OTA broadcasts with an antenna, while still have access to major streaming services like Netflix and Hulu on the same platform.

I too desperately wish to see this, and other IPTV platforms on the Tivo. Truth be told, I just ordered a Fire TV box, and if the experience with Sling TV is good, my Tivo boxes may be abandoned.


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## rainwater

impiouspunk said:


> This has to be the most asinine comment I've seen. You do realize Tivo makes a dedicated OTA model? The whole reason I purchased a Tivo had nothing to do with cable, or satellite. I purchased several Tivo boxes so I can record OTA broadcasts with an antenna, while still have access to major streaming services like Netflix and Hulu on the same platform.
> 
> I too desperately wish to see this, and other IPTV platforms on the Tivo. Truth be told, I just ordered a Fire TV box, and if the experience with Sling TV is good, my Tivo boxes may be abandoned.


How is it asinine? The TiVo OTA is not a huge priority for TiVo. Their priority is cable MSOs. TiVo can't create the Dish TV app. That is up to Dish. And I doubt they would spend time to create the app for the TiVo app platform given the small number of OTA users. They are going after the larger platforms at launch.


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## verkuilb

As others have pointed out, Tivo OTA is a high enough priority that they have a unit in the Roamio family which is effectively dedicated to it. If it wasn't a priority, they wouldn't have done that--they'd be telling OTA customers to go use an old Tivo HD.

And the market trends have definitely been pushing more and more to customers cutting the cord and going OTA. Two of the main things preventing even more people from doing so is that they want DVR capabilities (and don't realize that Tivo offers that for OTA signals), and that there are a small core group of cable channels they desire (many of which are in the Sling TV $20/mo package--for example, the main cable channels my family would like to have are ESPN, TNT, HDTV, Cartoon Network, and ABC Family--and they're ALL in the Sling package!).

If you think there isn't a demand for a Sling app on the OTA Roamio, I think you're grossly underestimating the current market, and even further underestimating the potential sales that this combo could attain if it were ever to come to fruition. Yes, most of the people on boards like this are tech geeks who have greater demands on their cable consumption, and who therefore would never get this package--but that in no way means there isn't a large segment out there who would love to have a Roamio/Sling package available to them.

Saying there's no demand for a Sling app on Roamio is a bit like saying several years ago that there was no demand for a Netflix app on Tivo, simply because everyone who has Netflix gets DVDs through the mail. You need to look to the future, not to the present.


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## A2JetGuy

+1



verkuilb said:


> As others have pointed out, Tivo OTA is a high enough priority that they have a unit in the Roamio family which is effectively dedicated to it. If it wasn't a priority, they wouldn't have done that--they'd be telling OTA customers to go use an old Tivo HD.
> 
> And the market trends have definitely been pushing more and more to customers cutting the cord and going OTA. Two of the main things preventing even more people from doing so is that they want DVR capabilities (and don't realize that Tivo offers that for OTA signals), and that there are a small core group of cable channels they desire (many of which are in the Sling TV $20/mo package--for example, the main cable channels my family would like to have are ESPN, TNT, HDTV, Cartoon Network, and ABC Family--and they're ALL in the Sling package!).
> 
> If you think there isn't a demand for a Sling app on the OTA Roamio, I think you're grossly underestimating the current market, and even further underestimating the potential sales that this combo could attain if it were ever to come to fruition. Yes, most of the people on boards like this are tech geeks who have greater demands on their cable consumption, and who therefore would never get this package--but that in no way means there isn't a large segment out there who would love to have a Roamio/Sling package available to them.
> 
> Saying there's no demand for a Sling app on Roamio is a bit like saying several years ago that there was no demand for a Netflix app on Tivo, simply because everyone who has Netflix gets DVDs through the mail. You need to look to the future, not to the present.


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## bradleys

verkuilb said:


> As others have pointed out, Tivo OTA is a high enough priority that they have a unit in the Roamio family which is effectively dedicated to it. If it wasn't a priority, they wouldn't have done that--they'd be telling OTA customers to go use an old Tivo HD.
> 
> And the market trends have definitely been pushing more and more to customers cutting the cord and going OTA. Two of the main things preventing even more people from doing so is that they want DVR capabilities (and don't realize that Tivo offers that for OTA signals), and that there are a small core group of cable channels they desire (many of which are in the Sling TV $20/mo package--for example, the main cable channels my family would like to have are ESPN, TNT, HDTV, Cartoon Network, and ABC Family--and they're ALL in the Sling package!).
> 
> If you think there isn't a demand for a Sling app on the OTA Roamio, I think you're grossly underestimating the current market, and even further underestimating the potential sales that this combo could attain if it were ever to come to fruition. Yes, most of the people on boards like this are tech geeks who have greater demands on their cable consumption, and who therefore would never get this package--but that in no way means there isn't a large segment out there who would love to have a Roamio/Sling package available to them.
> 
> Saying there's no demand for a Sling app on Roamio is a bit like saying several years ago that there was no demand for a Netflix app on Tivo, simply because everyone who has Netflix gets DVDs through the mail. You need to look to the future, not to the present.


No, we understand how hard it is for TiVo to convince OTT owners such as Netflix and Amazon to expend the resources to place an app on TiVo. TiVo simply does not have the consumer numbers (retail TiVo's) to warrant the effort

And if we don't have the numbers to get OTT providers such as HBO Go, the likelihood of Dish deciding to drop the hatchet with TiVo and modify an app for the couple thousand dedicated OTA units is pretty slim.

Dish is going to focus on the big numbers provided by Roku, Amazon Fire and Apple TV.

Hell will freeze over before Dish wastes a moments glance toward expending any effort on the TiVo OTA DVR. If you really want it, join a Dish Sling forum and talk it up, because you are spitting in the wind on this one.


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## JoeKustra

A lot of good links:
http://www.fiercecable.com/story/ea.../2015-01-26?utm_medium=nl&utm_source=internal
I'm too old for it though.


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## HarperVision

bradleys said:


> ........TiVo simply does not have the consumer numbers (retail TiVo's) to warrant the effort .........


Wouldn't this be an effort to INCREASE those numbers by attracting those potential clients that want to use OTA with streaming and now a couple of the most popular cable TV channels like ESPN and Disney???

Seems to me it could capture a lot of the Aereo castoffs.


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## rainwater

verkuilb said:


> As others have pointed out, Tivo OTA is a high enough priority that they have a unit in the Roamio family which is effectively dedicated to it. If it wasn't a priority, they wouldn't have done that--they'd be telling OTA customers to go use an old Tivo HD.


Is this not the same Roamio OTA that wasn't even available at multiple retailers for almost 6 months? It is also the same Roamio that doesn't even support lifetime. TiVo needed to kill of the TiVo HD because manufacturing only Roamio's is much more cost effective. So they did just that. It doesn't mean that TiVo sees the OTA market as a lucrative one. In fact, the numbers justify it.


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## rainwater

HarperVision said:


> Wouldn't this be an effort to INCREASE those numbers by attracting those potential clients that want to use OTA with streaming and now a couple of the most popular cable TV channels like ESPN and Disney???


Perhaps. But I'm sure TiVo has enough data to know whether OTA only TiVo users were likely to use such a service. And the fact that such a service seems to be duplicating one of TiVo's core features, seems to suggest TiVo wouldn't be that interested.


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## bradleys

HarperVision said:


> Wouldn't this be an effort to INCREASE those numbers by attracting those potential clients that want to use OTA with streaming and now a couple of the most popular cable TV channels like ESPN and Disney???
> 
> Seems to me it could capture a lot of the Aereo castoffs.


You don't have to convince TiVo... That is just the container - you have to convince Dish. Dish has to prepare and maintain the app to work on Tivo, and there is no financial incentive (subscription numbers) to Dish.

Even if there wasn't significant bad blood, a decade of legal battles and a multi billion dollar settlement against Dish - they still wouldn't waste their time on piddly little TiVo.


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## HarperVision

rainwater said:


> ........And the fact that such a service seems to be duplicating one of TiVo's core features, seems to suggest TiVo wouldn't be that interested.


It wouldn't be duplicated on the OTA model since that can't do Cablecard.


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## HarperVision

bradleys said:


> You don't have to convince TiVo... That is just the container - you have to convince Dish. Dish has to prepare and maintain the app to work on Tivo, and there is no financial incentive (subscription numbers) to Dish. Even if there wasn't significant bad blood, a decade of legal battles and a multi billion dollar settlement against Dish - they still wouldn't waste their time on piddly little TiVo.


The subscription numbers would come from the potential new clients that buy into the OTA unit, which would presumably be the best product of its kind offering OTA DVR, Streaming Services and SlingTV cable channels!


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## bradleys

A pittance compared to Roku, Fire TV and Apple TV.

If Dish were to see the value / oportunity for growth, they might consider the investment - but I doubt it. Even double digit growth year over year of OTA TiVo's wouldn't be enough financial incentive for Dish to answer the phone from TiVo!

Ring, ring...

Bottom line - this isn't TiVo's decision and Dish wouldn't piss on TiVo to put out a fire. It isn't going to happen...


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## HarperVision

bradleys said:


> A pittance compared to Roku, Fire TV and Apple TV. If Dish were to see the value / oportunity for growth, they might consider the investment - but I doubt it. Even double digit growth year over year of OTA TiVo's wouldn't be enough financial incentive for Dish to answer the phone from TiVo! Ring, ring... Bottom line - this isn't TiVo's decision and Dish wouldn't piss on TiVo to put out a fire. It isn't going to happen...


Yeah, and they'll stay that way if they keep thinking like they have in the past and to people like you.


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## bradleys

Not sure what you want TiVo to do, it isn't their decision. About the only way TiVo could convince Dish to put Sling on TiVo would be to pay them cash money to do it.

How much? They could start at the $500 million TiVo won in litigation from Dish and negotiate down from that point. 

But seriously, Dish is going to look for platforms to drive subscriptions - TiVo cannot do that, so the revenue would have to be generated in other ways. And the only other way is direct payments to Dish from TiVo reimbursing the development and maintenance costs.

And TiVo isn't going to do that...


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## HarperVision

If you wanna play with the big boys, ya gotta PAY the big boys!


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## bradleys

For the fraction of a percentage of TiVo subscribers that are OTA only? That seems like a terrible use of funds. As a TiVo stockholder, I would be pretty ticked if they did that.

It isn't that big of a deal, get a Roku if you and the twelve other OTA only guys willing to drop $20 bones a month want this service.

I can't stand sports, so even if I cut the cable this would just be another crappy, forced commercial service that I wouldn't look twice at. Just like Hulu +, what a raving waste of money. Forced commercials for things you can record anyway.

Oh and now CBS is launching a $5.99-A-Month Subscription Streaming service with forced commercials - I can't wait for the clamoring for that mind numbing offering as well. Unfortunately, like Hulu+, it is one of those third tier offerings so they will probably try to get on TiVo's


I would like to see the new HBO Go product that offers a streaming service, both you and I could benifit from that product - no commercials, no Cable TV subscription and a full VOD library. Will we get it? Not as a first flush - we don't have subscribers to generate enough new subscription revenue for Time Warner to make it worth their while.


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## HarperVision

bradleys said:


> For the fraction of a percentage of TiVo subscribers that are OTA only? That seems like a terrible use of funds. As a TiVo stockholder, I would be pretty ticked if they did that. It isn't that big of a deal, get a Roku if you and the twelve other OTA only guys willing to drop $20 bones a month want this service. I can't stand sports, so even if I cut the cable this would just be another crappy, forced commercial service that I wouldn't look twice at. Just like Hulu +, what a raving waste of money. Forced commercials for things you can record anyway. Oh and now CBS is launching a $5.99-A-Month Subscription Streaming service with forced commercials - I can't wait for the clamoring for that mind numbing offering as well. Unfortunately, like Hulu+, it is one of those third tier offerings so they will probably try to get on TiVo's I would like to see the new HBO Go product that offers a streaming service, both you and I could benifit from that product - no commercials, no Cable TV subscription and a full VOD library. Will we get it? Not as a first flush - we don't have subscribers to generate enough new subscription revenue for Time Warner to make it worth their while.


I'm not OTA, I'm cable.

If TiVo wants to be a big player like roku, Amazon etc then they have to invest in things that will take them there, and capturing the cord cutter market with a device that will do antenna recording, streaming apps and high profile cable channels, be it through SlingTV or something else that doesn't exist yet (which NO other device currently does if I recall) and also offers the TiVo experience is what "could" get this going and put them back on the map like their heydays from 10-15 years ago when the word "TiVo" was a verb!

I think the disconnect here is that you're looking at TiVo and the situation as it is now and I'm looking at this as something they can gamble on based on current trends (cord cutting) to have a successful future, or even a future at all.

Think small, be small!


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## johnfasc

So TiVo has Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, YouTube, Pandora and other apps. These are some big players in the streaming media field. I would think Dish would love to get their platform out to as many devices as possible. Now Pandora for the most part is free...some pay the $5 a month for no ads but I know many that listen but few that pay. So what would motivate TiVo or Pandora to get the app on TiVo where this hardly seems like a big money maker either way. Yet the app is there and I use it frequently. This is one of the reasons I got the TiVo. I did not want to put up with a smart TV and all the bloat that comes with it. So with that, saying that Dish would spit on TiVo because of lack of users can be thrown out the window. My goal is to pay zero to time warner and go ota all the way. I agree with Harper all the way!


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## bradleys

Then go to the Dish forums and ask for it... The decision isn't TiVo's, the ball is all in Dish's hands and they are looking for relationships that will drive up subscription numbers.

I don't think tivo would bring dollar one profit for Dish. Every disparate install reqires a level of support and maintenance, and that relates to a running cost for Dish on each platform they support. The cost is hopefully offset by subscription adds based on the draw of the platform...

Not hopeful, maybe, if the platform grows numbers, but predictable actuarial numbers. And I guarentee you any analysis of revenue on the tivo platform is going to be far from break even for Dish.

Thus not going to happen unless something dramatically changed in the OTA tivo market.

The first post on this thread was something like "come on tivo send it to to production". Tivo doesn't develop the app, they don't modify it for the platform and they don't support it. 

They simply offer their platform and captive eyeballs to OTT providers as an outlet. The OTT providers decide if the platform provides enough economic sense for the investment.


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## HarperVision

bradleys said:


> Then go to the Dish forums and ask for it... The decision isn't TiVo's, the ball is all in Dish's hands and they are looking for relationships that will drive up subscription numbers. I don't think tivo would bring dollar one profit for Dish. Every disparate install reqires a level of support and maintenance, and that relates to a running cost for Dish on each platform they support. The cost is hopefully offset by subscription adds based on the draw of the platform... Not hopeful, maybe, if the platform grows numbers, but predictable actuarial numbers. And I guarentee you any analysis of revenue on the tivo platform is going to be far from break even for Dish. Thus not going to happen unless something dramatically changed in the OTA tivo market. The first post on this thread was something like "come on tivo send it to to production". Tivo doesn't develop the app, they don't modify it for the platform and they don't support it. They simply offer their platform and captive eyeballs to OTT providers as an outlet. The OTT providers decide if the platform provides enough economic sense for the investment.


But you would be lying if you said that equipment manufacturers don't go to these OTT providers and request their services be on their products, especially something that could be a perfect match such as this for cord cutters and to give both services a boost.

How is "something drastic" going to ever happen with TiVo and OTA if they DON'T pursue and capture services such as this???

If I were a cord cutter, which I've investigated and attempted MANY times, this would be just the thing to put me over the edge and go with it, if SlingTV got a couple more channels like History, AMC, A&E, etc. and had DVR and trick play for all channels.


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## humbb

HarperVision said:


> If I were a cord cutter, which I've investigated and attempted MANY times, this would be just the thing to put me over the edge and go with it, if SlingTV got a couple more channels like History, AMC, A&E, etc. and had DVR and trick play for all channels.


If SlingTV got a *lot* more channels like History, AMC, A&E, etc. and had DVR and trick play for all channels, *they'd be a cable/satellite company*.


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## HarperVision

humbb said:


> If SlingTV got a lot more channels like History, AMC, A&E, etc. and had DVR and trick play for all channels, they'd be a cable/satellite company.


No, cable and sat companies have hundreds of crap channels that are bastard stepchildren of those channels!


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## atmuscarella

HarperVision said:


> If I were a cord cutter, which I've investigated and attempted MANY times, this would be just the thing to put me over the edge and go with it, if SlingTV got a couple more channels like History, AMC, A&E, etc. and had DVR and trick play for all channels.


Dish has no desire to help you or anyone else "cut the cord". SlingTV is designed to hook those who are not paying a cable/satellite company for TV back into paying for TV - a bridge to bring them back to a full subscription. That is why it is being hobbled, with only being able to use one stream at a time and so far no indication they will bring advance (DVR) style features to it.


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## rainwater

atmuscarella said:


> Dish has no desire to help you or anyone else "cut the cord". SlingTV is designed to hook those who are not paying a cable/satellite company for TV back into paying for TV - a bridge to bring them back to a full subscription. That is why it is being hobbled, with only being able to use one stream at a time and so far no indication they will bring advance (DVR) style features to it.


Dish is not the one hobbling Sling TV. The networks are the ones doing it. That is why the ESPN/Disney apps do not allow pause/rw/etc along with VOD while many of the other networks do. The problem is providers like Dish have no power to force these networks to allow these features. Until that happens, all of these "cord cutting" apps will be hobbled.


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## atmuscarella

rainwater said:


> Dish is not the one hobbling Sling TV. The networks are the ones doing it. That is why the ESPN/Disney apps do not allow pause/rw/etc along with VOD while many of the other networks do. The problem is providers like Dish have no power to force these networks to allow these features. Until that happens, all of these "cord cutting" apps will be hobbled.


That is true for VOD but this service isn't primarily VOD it is primarily "live" TV. So no reason to assume any restrictions aren't dish's.


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## Jerry B

I searched out this forum tonight because I'm a TiVo over-the-air home that would be in the market to pay $20 for some select cable channels. I work at the largest TV audience measurement company and do indeed know the current OTA/DVR home combo is small, but the potential to grow is there. We've seen a nice bump in overall OTA home growth after the 6/16/2009 digital conversion--people are still learning that it's never been a better time to be an OTA home. Adding TiVo functionality along with a over-the-top device, a DVD, and a streaming smart TV means to me that there's never been a better time to be an OTA home. I'm enjoying the back and forth between Dave Harper and Bradley. Thanks and I'll stay tuned.


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## HarperVision

Jerry B said:


> I searched out this forum tonight because I'm a TiVo over-the-air home that would be in the market to pay $20 for some select cable channels. I work at the largest TV audience measurement company and do indeed know the current OTA/DVR home combo is small, but the potential to grow is there. We've seen a nice bump in overall OTA home growth after the 6/16/2009 digital conversion--people are still learning that it's never been a better time to be an OTA home. Adding TiVo functionality along with a over-the-top device, a DVD, and a streaming smart TV means to me that there's never been a better time to be an OTA home. I'm enjoying the back and forth between Dave Harper and Bradley. Thanks and I'll stay tuned.


Thanks Jerry B(ruckheimer?)! Here I thought you were in movies, not working for the Neilson's! 

You seem to think like me and hopefully TiVo.....ahead!


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## qz3fwd

bradleys said:


> Not sure what you want TiVo to do, it isn't their decision. About the only way TiVo could convince Dish to put Sling on TiVo would be to pay them cash money to do it.
> 
> How much? They could start at the $500 million TiVo won in litigation from Dish and negotiate down from that point.
> 
> But seriously, Dish is going to look for platforms to drive subscriptions - TiVo cannot do that, so the revenue would have to be generated in other ways. And the only other way is direct payments to Dish from TiVo reimbursing the development and maintenance costs.
> 
> And TiVo isn't going to do that...


Maybe part of the patent litigation includes clauses allowing Tivo to use their intellectual property in their devices/services for an unspecified period of time without paying royalties which would include the sling service as part of the "payout" and Tivo has software ready for prime time on our machines with the latest update and they just need to flip the switch???? haha.


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## bradleys

qz3fwd said:


> Maybe part of the patent litigation includes clauses allowing Tivo to use their intellectual property in their devices/services for an unspecified period of time without paying royalties which would include the sling service as part of the "payout" and Tivo has software ready for prime time on our machines with the latest update and they just need to flip the switch???? haha.


Yeah, that's the ticket! 

It wouldn't upset me if tivo added sling TV, I am simply being a realist...


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## gothaggis

sling tv just added amc, ifc, bbc america, bbc world news and some others to their main package.

if there was someway i could record shows on sling with my tivo + ota signals as well, i think i would finally cancel cable and be all over this

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sling-tv-adds-amc-networks-141500863.html


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## bradleys

I have said I don't think Sling is a good fit for TiVo and I haven't changed my mind simply because of the small OTA footprint...

That said

I think the addition of OnePass significantly improves the functionality of a streaming service like OnePass. Live streams would still be a little wonky, but in generally, it becomes more then just a simple container.

(I still don't expect it, just may be slightly more usable then before)


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## HarperVision

gothaggis said:


> sling tv just added amc, ifc, bbc america, bbc world news and some others to their main package. if there was someway i could record shows on sling with my tivo + ota signals as well, i think i would finally cancel cable and be all over this http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sling-tv-adds-amc-networks-141500863.html


Well that's cool. Do these new channels offer the on demand feature to play a whole show (pseudo DVR)?

You could use something like a ZeeVee component to ATSC/QAM modulator and a streamer that has component and SlingTV and then record it to your Roamio that way. I have this combo and just got an offer for 7days free trial of SlingTV. Maybe I'll try it and report back.


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## Series3Sub

johnfasc said:


> So will we ever be able to subscribe and get the sling TV programing using a TiVo. The stations they offer would put me on the verge of cutting the cable completely.....


Considering Dish now offers Netflix on its Hopper with Sling product, ANYTHING is possible. In fact, I could see Dish working with TiVo to provide SlingTV via TiVo because SlingTV is NOT a replacement for cable or sat subscribers: it is for all those younglings who have never had a pay TV service and NEVER WILL, but are willing to plunk $20 per month for unfettered access to ESPN and have a few live TV streams of other Disney owned and Scripps channels among others such as Turner channels like CNN along with some VOD and limited trick-play for some services.

Considering Charlie Ergan and Tom Rogers are friends (yes, they had that lawsuit but it never got personal and even Ergan said that it was all about a disagreement where Tom says Dish is infringing and Charlie disagrees with that. Charlie Ergan did say that since he is wiring the first payment of the settlement, he told Tom that he is expected to pay for the lunch the two have together), I bet they have even discussed such a possibility. It really would be the perfect feature for the OTA product, but not likely on any other TiVo because it would offend the MSO's.

SlingTV is NOT multi-screen. Meaning only ONE stream per account. No DVR's and only about 20 channels with more to come, but aside from ESPN's, still missing some of the premium content like HBO GO, etc. This does not even come close to a cable or sat subscription, but it is what cordcutters and millennials have been dying for.

Dish does NOT view SlingTV as taking subscribers away from their sat service. Dish CEO Joe Clayton did concede that there may be few people who may leave Dish for SlingTV, but not many because the two services are so different. SlingTV is for the never paid for Pay TV generation who want ESPN more than any other channel. It took Dish years to persuade the channel owners such as Disney, Scripps, Turner, etc, that providing content to such a service like SlingTV would no "cannibalize" nor devalue their content on cable and sat. Thankfully, the channel owners agreed to SlingTV. Now we need some competition from the others like Apple, etc.

Further, Dish has stated they want SlingTV to be on MORE devices with a "more devices to come," along with a "more [content] to come." In other words, SlingTV is "agnostic" because it in no way compares to and is weak competition for the mult-screen, hub DVR experience of a cable or sat subscription.


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## b2bblack

I am evidently one of the few people who own a Roamio OTA. And yes, it is my first Tivo. Wouldn't have bought it except that a DVR was the one thing stopping me from cutting the cord. After checking out competing products, this device is hands down the best option for a cord cutting DVR (even with the $15/mo charge). Since most of my previous TV consumption was provided by DVR'd OTA channels and Netflix, the decision for me was fairly easy. The Sling package would pretty much fill out everything else I used DirecTv for. And since I was paying them $90/mo, the Tivo/Sling package still would put me well ahead. And it's not that big of a problem if I have to use a Roku/AppleTV/Fire box to get it on the TV, just an inconvenience. 

The one thing I wanted to bring up is that I'm pretty sure that since Sling is now available there will probably a few other similar services offered by other providers. I would think that this would increase the interest in and adoption rate of cord-cutting. Along with that the concept of owning a DVR versus leasing one will probably increase. This, to me, is where the OTA will gain traction. It would seem if that is in fact how the market grows, most providers would readily provide hooks for Tivo products, since they are widely accepted as the biggest and most established company in the customer-owned DVR market. Providers of services like Sling would not want consumers to choose their competitors simply because it was not available on their streaming device of choice.


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## damondlt

Just to clarify some of the post in here, 
Dish and Tivo are never going to do business, Ever!

I don't care who what and where someone heard they are best friends and heading out to lunch. LOL Keep dreaming!
Dish lost a $500 million dollar lawsuit to Tivo not too far back.
Website *speculation* is the only source since 2011 that implies tivo and dish are going to do anything.
The Hopper platform and software have always been quite good, IMO just as good as Tivo. 
Directv had a chance to build something good with Tivo andit took years and multiple delays,and then no one wanted it. A good solid POC !
Dish certainly isnt going to invest more money into Tivo to produce something better than Directvs version, when it was a flop!

Now as far as OTA, there is more than 59 million that use OTA.
https://gigaom.com/2013/06/21/ota-60-million-antenna-users-cord-cutting/

And going back to the comment, People with Satellite don't use OTA, well not sure where that research came from, because most satellite subscribers had no choice but to use OTA in order to get their locals, and still to this day need OTA for most of their missing locals and sub channels that satellite doesn't have capacity to carry.
Both providers Dish and Directv have OTA HD DVR option for all of their receivers.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=am21&d=directv-am21n-off-air-dual-tuner-(am21)
http://www.mydish.com/support/usb-digital-ota-tuner

By the way Dish Network had a stand alone OTA DVR long before Tivo.
Charlie launched them right at the start of the government digital upgrade.
And they charged no monthly fee.
T40 and T50 I believe.
Fairly sure he didn't charge a monthly fee either.
http://about.dish.com/press-release...introduces-new-digital-analog-converter-boxes
http://www.cnet.com/news/echostar-tr-50-hd-dvr-for-the-antenna-crowd/

I don't see anything happening with Tivo and Satellite again.
Both companies would rather keep production to themselves rather than outsource to Tivo.

But its not to say that Directv at some point may work with Tivo on a Cable card type solution with satellite on the Roamio, But again only speculation.


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## HarperVision

damondlt said:


> Just to clarify some of the post in here, Dish and Tivo are never going to do business, Ever! I don't care who what and where someone heard they are best friends and heading out to lunch. LOL Keep dreaming! Dish lost a $500 million dollar lawsuit to Tivo not too far back. Website speculation is the only source since 2011 that implies tivo and dish are going to do anything. The Hopper platform and software have always been quite good, IMO just as good as Tivo. Directv had a chance to build something good with Tivo andit took years and multiple delays,and then no one wanted it. A good solid POC ! Dish certainly isnt going to invest more money into Tivo to produce something better than Directvs version, when it was a flop! Now as far as OTA, there is more than 59 million that use OTA. https://gigaom.com/2013/06/21/ota-60-million-antenna-users-cord-cutting/ And going back to the comment, People with Satellite don't use OTA, well not sure where that research came from, because most satellite subscribers had no choice but to use OTA in order to get their locals, and still to this day need OTA for most of their missing locals and sub channels that satellite doesn't have capacity to carry. Both providers Dish and Directv have OTA HD DVR option for all of their receivers. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=am21&d=directv-am21n-off-air-dual-tuner-%28am21%29 http://www.mydish.com/support/usb-digital-ota-tuner By the way Dish Network had a stand alone OTA DVR long before Tivo. Charlie launched them right at the start of the government digital upgrade. And they charged no monthly fee. T40 and T50 I believe. Fairly sure he didn't charge a monthly fee either. http://about.dish.com/press-release/products-and-services/echostar-introduces-new-digital-analog-converter-boxes http://www.cnet.com/news/echostar-tr-50-hd-dvr-for-the-antenna-crowd/ I don't see anything happening with Tivo and Satellite again. Both companies would rather keep production to themselves rather than outsource to Tivo. But its not to say that Directv at some point may work with Tivo on a Cable card type solution with satellite on the Roamio, But again only speculation.


Well, "never...ever" is a long time, so you "never" know, but this thread and discussion is about TiVo adding the IP based SlingTV app anyway because it seems to be the perfect compliment to an OTA TiVo for cord cutters. It's not about TiVo and the satellite companies working together to build a DVR, so not sure where your diatribe is coming from?


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## TitanTiger

I'd just be ok if there was someway to just chain the Tivo inline with Sling TV so I could record certain programs.


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## bradleys

TitanTiger said:


> I'd just be ok if there was someway to just chain the Tivo inline with Sling TV so I could record certain programs.


Streaming providers spend a huge amount of money and time implementing DRM to prevent exactly that!

Kind of a sad state for the future actually. Content providers fought VCR's all the way to the supreme court and narrowly lost. But more recently they have been much more successful implementing controls.

Eventually, I suspect the bulk of content distribution is going to be streaming both live and on demand. As that happens the ability to collect content for personal use and the ability to skip commercials will become harder and harder to do.

It is a very sad state of affairs to think we are living in the "golden age" of usability and flexibility right now!


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## atmuscarella

bradleys said:


> Streaming providers spend a huge amount of money and time implementing DRM to prevent exactly that!
> 
> Kind of a sad state for the future actually. Content providers fought VCR's all the way to the supreme court and narrowly lost. But more recently they have been much more successful implementing controls.
> 
> Eventually, I suspect the bulk of content distribution is going to be streaming both live and on demand. As that happens the ability to collect content for personal use and the ability to skip commercials will become harder and harder to do.
> 
> It is a very sad state of affairs to think we are living in the "golden age" of usability and flexibility right now!


With Sling TV we don't know if the content providers required no recording as part of the deal or if DishNetwork just didn't bother to write an app/program that would allow devices to record the live stream that could record the program (like a tablet, phone, or computer).

My guess is this is a dish issue/decision not a content provider one. Developing an app/program that can act like a DVR costs allot more than more that just streams the content.


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## bradleys

atmuscarella said:


> With Sling TV we don't know if the content providers required no recording as part of the deal or if DishNetwork just didn't bother to write an app/program that would allow devices to record the live stream that could record the program (like a tablet, phone, or computer).
> 
> My guess is this is a dish issue/decision not a content provider one. Developing an app/program that can act like a DVR costs allot more than more that just streams the content.


You are right that we have no way of knowing...

What we do know is that content providers of all makes and models have been trying to legally and technically stop any type of copying since before the VCR.

We also know that not one single streaming service legally allows copying as part of the API. And any copying work around will break the terms of service and get your subscription cancelled.

So, while you are technically correct that we don't know the legal arrangement Sling has setup; I think it is a pretty comfortable assumption that copying will be discouraged in the strongest sense.

Take that for what it is worth.


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## Fontzepontze

Just an FYI... I'm a potential cordcutter and am shopping for options post-cable. Teaming up Sling TV and TiVo is what has brought me here. This is a fast growing demographic and TiVo would be well served to get on board early... and I'm on the older side of the demographic. The millennials are where it's at, they are more of them then there were baby boomers and none of them have any interest in getting cable.


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## sethschroeder

SlingTV customer here since private beta and its been great. Its convinced me to get ride of Directv even prior to AMC being onboarded which is a cherry on top for Walking Dead.

I do have a Tivo Premier w/ Lifetime for OTA+Cable when we still had TWC. I decided to hook it back up for the OTA recording but it would be amazing to get sling tv going on this as well.

The funniest thing on here is a "Tivo Shareholder" not wanting them to investigate or invest in SlingTV moving forward. Which is fine if TIVO comes out with their own solution. If they don't their marketshare is only going to keep dwindling. You already see the success of the Roku, FireTv, and others as people start to pick up these devices.

The question is would I pick up a Tivo for $200 that can run Netflix, AmazonTV, Hulu, and SlingTV DVR or would I stick with Roku and not be able to record the shows?

I understand its an investment and likely one that Tivo will not make but ondemand media is the future and if all you do is pander your product to satellite companies and cable companies you are going to end up out of business or severely hurt like them if you don't evolve.

PS - DishTV even sees the writing on the wall and the need to invest in streaming based services with Sling. While you have others that offer extensive streaming options as apart of the regular service you will start to see more of these smaller "ala carte" offerings coming.


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## foghorn2

Some channels fine streamed like CNN or even Nat Geo or other channels that repeat their shows throughout the day/week and not recorded. Those would be great on the TiVo.


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## cthomp21

Really, really wish that Tivo would integrate a Sling TV app into the rest of the video services (like Netflix and Amazon Prime). Would be perfect! The only thing holding me back from cutting the cord and going OTA with my Roamio Basic is kids programming (Disney and Nick). ESPN and the few other cable channels are just icing on the cake.

Tivo, please add Sling TV!


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## HarperVision

cthomp21 said:


> Really, really wish that Tivo would integrate a Sling TV app into the rest of the video services (like Netflix and Amazon Prime). Would be perfect! The only thing holding me back from cutting the cord and going OTA with my Roamio Basic is kids programming (Disney and Nick). ESPN and the few other cable channels are just icing on the cake. Tivo, please add Sling TV!


I wouldn't say "perfect", but certainly one step closer! They could use apps like HBOGo, SHO Anytime and my favorite bucket list item I think would be being able to connect and stream from a Slingbox (I know, not gonna happen!)


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## Fontzepontze

Given the nature of Sling TV I would almost prefer to see it show up in my channel guide along with my OTA channels rather than as an app. I know it's against the premise of TiVo but eventually the content providers will surrender or a court case will force the ability to record the stream a la cable and OTA. When I had DirecTiVo I loved it but some moves made me settle for Comcast and currently U-Verse but I just got the 3 months of Sling + half off a Fire TV (which has very good voice search, my Echo is what convinced me to try it). To have my rather generous selection of local OTA shows combined with Sling is a pretty decent compromise. 

Naturally, I'm going to spoof MLB once baseball season comes around but MLB is as progressive as anyone in this arena. They'll be streaming without blackouts once their contracts allow it. 

But that's it. OTA, Sling, WWE Network (I know, I know), Amazon Prime, MLB and I'm set. And I'm willing to jump before it's perfect just to spite the cable companies and hopefully help bring about their demise as a monopoly and transition into a utility.


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## Adam1115

I would sign up for sling tv if it were available on TiVo. I don't want another device in my living room.

For those who say OTA is not a priority - yes, there is an OTA only Roamio but also the base Roamio does OTA in addition to cablecard. That aside, I have cable but do not get those channels and am not willing to shell out the big $$$ to change my entire package to get ESPN. This isn't totally isolated to OTA people...


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## Arcady

I don't know why anyone would want Sling TV. It isn't on-demand, and you can't record it. It is streamed live TV. They do have some on-demand movie offerings, but the main product is just live TV that you can't record. This might be okay for watching live sports on ESPN, but what's the point of the rest of the channels? You can't even watch on two devices at once.


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## tarheelblue32

Arcady said:


> I don't know why anyone would want Sling TV. It isn't on-demand, and you can't record it. It is streamed live TV. They do have some on-demand movie offerings, but the main product is just live TV that you can't record. This might be okay for watching live sports on ESPN, but what's the point of the rest of the channels? You can't even watch on two devices at once.


This is basically for people who want to cut the cord, but they just have to have access to ESPN to watch their favorite sports team, or their wife just has to have access to HGTV. If all you want are a few channels, but right now the cable company makes you pay $100+ to get them, this is an attractive alternative at $20/month.


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## HarperVision

Does anyone know if PlayLater works with SlingTV? That could be a way to record it for later viewing.


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## abovethesink

Maybe in the future we can return to a more dumb style of recording where someome comes out with a device to do it the old VCR style. Set a time to record and just have it record the picture and sound that is on the tv irregardless of its source. We could bring the device into the modern age though by having it record a particular input and being able to crowdsource a pseudo guide data, i.e. signing up for a scheduled recording called The Walking Dead that others schedule the date on.


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## bradleys

abovethesink said:


> Maybe in the future we can return to a more dumb style of recording where someome comes out with a device to do it the old VCR style. Set a time to record and just have it record the picture and sound that is on the tv irregardless of its source. We could bring the device into the modern age though by having it record a particular input and being able to crowdsource a pseudo guide data, i.e. signing up for a scheduled recording called The Walking Dead that others schedule the date on.


That would require defeating DRM and your community group would be sued under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) of 1998...


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## sailomb

After checking out Sling TV for the 7 day free trial, I cut the cord. The $20 service has the kids programming I needed for my kids and ESPN for me. And since my company pays for my internet, this has worked out great for me. I also went out and got a TIVO Roamio basic with lifetime and a TiVo mini for my DVR and OTA needs. So yes I would love to see a sling tv app on my TiVo Roamio. Not a game stopper though, because I would still have a ROKU for my other channel needs that TVIO would prob never integrate (Asian channels).


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## raqball

Add me to the list of wanting Sling TV app on the Tivo.

I am a cord cutter and use the Roamio OTA, an antenna and I also have a Roku 3. As of right now my Roku is only used for Sling TV and NHL Gamecenter.


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## lupette

I am one of those OTA users you all keep referencing. FYI: I also have a Roku and I just subscribed to the free trial for Sling TV. I have a couple of thoughts:

1) Since this is a streaming service the cable is never really cut right? We still need it to deliver internet to all of our devices!
2) Those of us who don't subscribe to cable or satellite TV service still use the Tivo to record what we watch. It is the ability to skip through the commercials that has most of us hooked. 
3) Since Sling TV doesn't allow you to record or to skip commercials . . . its not of much value to those of us who don't want to waste our time watching them.
4) Because I have to watch when the program is airing, rather than when it's convenient for me, and because I cannot skip the commercials, I will be cancelling my free trial once the week is up. 
CONCLUSION: What we really want from Tivo is a way to get these channels without the commercials! I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. I keep searching for a way to push the internet to the tivo from my computer so that I can record it and watch it later without watching the commercials. Unfortunately, if there is a way, I haven't found it!

I am old enough to still be of the opinion that pay tv should be commercial free. This notion has gone by the wayside . . . long ago


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## lupette

Oh . . . for those who already cut the cord . . . if you hate to watch commercials like me . . . try Amazon Prime and Netflix! They offer lots of commercial free programming and together cost less per month than Sling TV.


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## bradleys

lupette said:


> Oh . . . for those who already cut the cord . . . if you hate to watch commercials like me . . . try Amazon Prime and Netflix! They offer lots of commercial free programming and together cost less per month than Sling TV.


But they do not offer live sports al a, ESPN - just as porn made the VCR successful, live sports will be Slings "killer content"!

Is it just me or does this seem like it really isn't a significant savings over traditional cable? You still have to pay for internet service...

And no forced commercials if you bring your own DVR.


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## Arcady

bradleys said:


> And no forced commercials if you bring your own DVR.


How do you figure? They don't play on a DVR. Most of the channels are live streams that you can't record.


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## bradleys

Arcady said:


> How do you figure? They don't play on a DVR. Most of the channels are live streams that you can't record.


We are saying the same thing.

I was saying that at $20+ a month a subscriber isn't seeing a significant savings over a very low tier cable offering for the channels offered. Add to that, the sling service forces commercials on a lot of the premium content.

If a user adds a bare bones cable subscription to their internet subscription and pairs that with a DVR - it seems to me to be a much better solution at not a significant increased cost.

How many streaming services do you need to replace your cable subscription?


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## atmuscarella

bradleys said:


> We are saying the same thing.
> 
> I was saying that at $20+ a month a subscriber isn't seeing a significant savings over a very low tier cable offering for the channels offered. Add to that, the sling service forces commercials on a lot of the premium content.
> 
> If a user adds a bare bones cable subscription to their internet subscription and pairs that with a DVR - it seems to me to be a much better solution at not a significant increased cost.
> 
> How many streaming services do you need to replace your cable subscription?


The lowest cost Dish package where you can get a "free" DVR is going to cost (with fees and taxes) about $50/mo the first year then about $80/mo after that, for a one TV setup.

SlingTV does not offer many channels I would want, but if dish offered to let me pick 5-10 normal cable channels that I would want and included a DVR I would be happy to pay $40+/-/mo. I think when I had Dish 10 years or so ago I ended up watch maybe 5 channels (plus my OTA channels as I didn't have locals back then), which is why I ended up canceling my service and just living with OTA.


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## bradleys

I am not talking about a Sling DVR, I am talking about a TiVo. A DVR doesn't do you any good at all with SlingTV - it is just an over the top app with an ESPN live streaming option - that costs $20 + a month.

My point is, since you are already paying for Internet, adding base cable TV package that includes ESPN wouldn't be that much more expensive and frankly far more flexible.

If I loved sports, wanted to save money and already had a broadband internet connection. Sling tv sure as heck wouldn't be my choice.

Just an example - Time Warner offers a $40 package with a very broad selection of channels. I would be far more likely to choose this above SlingTV.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/plans-packages/tv/digital-cable-tv-plans.html


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## foghorn2

Agree 100%. Cox here has an Economy Pack, great selection and price.


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## Adam1115

bradleys said:


> I am not talking about a Sling DVR, I am talking about a TiVo. A DVR doesn't do you any good at all with SlingTV - it is just an over the top app with an ESPN live streaming option - that costs $20 + a month.


Why wouldn't a TiVo Sling app record live SlingTV?


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## bradleys

Adam1115 said:


> Why wouldn't a TiVo Sling app record live SlingTV?


If tivo were to add SlingTV as an OTT app it would be treated just as that - an OTT app.

First, sling is going to implement every possible protection against screen capture for this streaming service.

Second, tivo is only setup to capture linear TV, not streaming content. It sould be able to "bookmark" the content via OnePass - but definitely not record!

Thus my point - a basic cable package is far more flexible than SlingTV for the money.


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## atmuscarella

bradleys said:


> I am not talking about a Sling DVR, I am talking about a TiVo. A DVR doesn't do you any good at all with SlingTV - it is just an over the top app with an ESPN live streaming option - that costs $20 + a month.
> 
> My point is, since you are already paying for Internet, adding base cable TV package that includes ESPN wouldn't be that much more expensive and frankly far more flexible.
> 
> If I loved sports, wanted to save money and already had a broadband internet connection. Sling tv sure as heck wouldn't be my choice.
> 
> Just an example - Time Warner offers a $40 package with a very broad selection of channels. I would be far more likely to choose this above SlingTV.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/plans-packages/tv/digital-cable-tv-plans.html


Well I live in a cable free zone so have no idea what an entry level cable package actually ends up costing (I am 100% sure it isn't the price listed on anyone web site or advertisement). With Dish after the teaser period (1 year) it's around $80/mo - not the $30/mo teaser price which really becomes about $50/mo from the start.

In any event I agree 100% that I have no use for a live streaming service without a DVR. My other comment was if Dish wants to sell me some a la cart service I would want 5-10 cable channels of my choice, a DVR, & have it sent via satellite not IP, which I would be willing to pay them around $40/mo. And yes I know that is never going to happen.


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## bradleys

@atmuscarella how do you get broadband internet today?


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## raqball

Why do cable TV users continually post in threads where people want to, or are, cutting the cord? Not only do they post in these threads, but they continually try and cram their opinion down cord cutters throats. They use derogatory terms such as 'cord cutter math', try to put words into others mouths and twist what is said.

It's rather odd behavior to say the least.. I won't question their cable TV choice nor will I try and devalue their TV viewing decisions. 

I joined this forum because I am a cord cutter and I have a Tivo. It would be nice to discuss the 2 without every single thread turning into a cord cutters are brain dead, who don't know how to do math, who don't know what they want to watch, and who don't know what is the right choice for them type discussion..

This might be the wrong forum for me as I'd like to discuss the Tivo and cord cutting options for the Tivo with out having to read all the 'cord cutter math' type responses..

Re: Sling TV> I like it a lot. ESPN and AMC are the killer channels for me. To get these channels on cable TV in my area I would need to spend another $70 a month for the lowest cable package that offers them. Last I checked, $20 a month is less than $70 a month.

Anyway, can cord cutters please have one thread or discussion where we don't need to be saved from ourselves?

Flame away....


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## Arcady

raqball said:


> Re: Sling TV> I like it a lot. ESPN and AMC are the killer channels for me. To get these channels on cable TV in my area I would need to spend another $70 a month for the lowest cable package that offers them. Last I checked, $20 a month is less than $70 a month..


$20 is less than $70. For your extra $50, you get to schedule and record the shows instead of watching them live.

I don't get why you're all upset that people are pointing out the flaws in current cord cutting methods. A service that streams live TV, with no option for on-demand viewing of most of the channels, and no way to record, doesn't seem like a great way to replace a regular channel that you can record and watch later.


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## raqball

Arcady said:


> $20 is less than $70. For your extra $50, you get to schedule and record the shows instead of watching them live.
> 
> I don't get why you're all upset that people are pointing out the flaws in current cord cutting methods. A service that streams live TV, with no option for on-demand viewing of most of the channels, and no way to record, doesn't seem like a great way to replace a regular channel that you can record and watch later.


Yawn..


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## Arcady

Have fun watching commercials.

If you're even home to watch live.

Welcome to the 1970's.


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## raqball

Thank you for trying to save me from my brain dead self...


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## Arcady

I found a way for you to record your shows.


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## raqball

Maybe the moderators or the forum administrator could make a specific area of the forum for Tivo users who cut the cord..

Just from reading the forum it appears there are plenty of cord cutters here. 

Anyway, like I said previously, maybe this is not the forum for me. It appears to be a very hostile and anti cord cutting environment..

Have a nice day. BTW, would you happen to have an eBay link to that Sony?


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## Arcady

Nobody is hostile to cord cutters. It is a perception you are getting when people point out flaws in the current methods.

If I point out that a 3TB drive won't work in a Series 2 TiVo, that doesn't make me hostile to Series 2 TiVos.

I have no problem if you want to use an antenna and not pay for cable, or if you don't have cable as an option. But this is a TiVo forum, which is about using a TiVo, and a sling tv subscription is the opposite of what TiVo is for: scheduling and recording TV so you don't have to watch it live.

I know, blah blah blah.

The image of that VCR came from a Google search for "betamax."


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## foghorn2

Arcady said:


> I found a way for you to record your shows.


:up:

How come we don't have thumbs up on posts on this forum?


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## raqball

Arcady said:


> But this is a TiVo forum, which is about using a TiVo, and a sling tv subscription is the opposite of what TiVo is for: scheduling and recording TV so you don't have to watch it live.


Umm.. Tivo has a Nexflix app, a Hulu Plus app, a YouTube app, a MLB app.

These apps don't allow the 'scheduling and recording of live TV'

This thread is about the Tivo getting a Sling TV app yet you decided to side track it into yet another 'cord cutter math' type of discussion..

I would like Tivo to get a Sling app and I have no illusions that I'd be able to record Sling TV. The only purpose of my Roku right now is for Sling TV and NHL Gamecenter. If I could them them on the Tivo my Roku could go away..

Continue on if you'd like as I'm pretty much done responding to you.

I appreciate you trying to save me from myself but honestly, I'm good!


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## Mikeguy

raqball said:


> Maybe the moderators or the forum administrator could make a specific area of the forum for Tivo users who cut the cord..
> 
> Just from reading the forum it appears there are plenty of cord cutters here.
> 
> Anyway, like I said previously, maybe this is not the forum for me. It appears to be a very hostile and anti cord cutting environment..
> 
> Have a nice day. BTW, would you happen to have an eBay link to that Sony?


In the end, it's all a value judgment (as well as economic judgment and choice, and sometimes necessity). Nothing wrong with one's choice if it fits your needs--and saving $50 x 12 a year may just do that for some, in exchange for watching some commercials--I mean, we all need bathroom and kitchen run breaks, right? 

And sorry if some aren't respecting your own priorities and needs.


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## raqball

Mikeguy said:


> In the end, it's all a value judgment (as well as economic judgment and choice, and sometimes necessity). Nothing wrong with one's choice if it fits your needs--and saving $50 x 12 a year may just do that for some, in exchange for watching some commercials--I mean, we all need bathroom and kitchen run breaks, right?
> 
> And sorry if some aren't respecting your own priorities and needs.


The funny part is that I am an odd-ball cord cutter. I didn't cut the cord to save money. I do save some and what I saved last year alone paid for my Roamio with lifetime.

I decided to cut the cord because I didn't want to pay for 200 channels I have zero interest in watching. I want the locals, ESPN and AMC. I do watch TBS every now and then.

As far as commercials go, I don't mind them at all. I use the Tivo to record shows because I can never remember when they are all on and I don't want to make sure I am available to watch them on time and live. I hardly ever use the skip forward feature to get past commercials on the Tivo.

The AMC channel on Sling has on demand function and I don't really care when I watch ESPN as it's mainly just for Sportscenter and to get caught up on the days sports news...

As far as not respecting my TV needs go, it's the internet I get that. I suppose I don't get how some can have such a strong opinion against something they don't care about. A strong enough opinion that every thread of the subject needs to be derailed..

I could bash their choice to pay for cable TV but why would I? I don't know them, I don't know their TV viewing habits and I don't know what shows are important to them.


----------



## Adam1115

Arcady said:


> Have fun watching commercials.
> 
> If you're even home to watch live.
> 
> Welcome to the 1970's.


Why do you feel the need to crap on this thread? If you think Sling TV is stupid or that TiVo shouldn't support it, put the thread on ignore and move on.

Just because something wouldn't be useful to you doesn't mean it isn't useful to others. TiVo already doesn't agree with you, with the introduction of OnePass attempting to further consolidate streaming services into their interface. And, it's entirely possible TiVo works a deal to develop an app that could record. It may be a long shot, but anything is possible. So what?


----------



## atmuscarella

bradleys said:


> @atmuscarella how do you get broadband internet today?


Frontier DSL, I have a 6 Mbps package, however Frontier has upstream capacity problems in my area, daily I get the 6Mbps in the morning, then it starts slowing in the afternoon by evening it drops to 1-1.5 Mbps and streaming normally will not work.


----------



## rainwater

Arcady said:


> $20 is less than $70. For your extra $50, you get to schedule and record the shows instead of watching them live.
> 
> I don't get why you're all upset that people are pointing out the flaws in current cord cutting methods. A service that streams live TV, with no option for on-demand viewing of most of the channels, and no way to record, doesn't seem like a great way to replace a regular channel that you can record and watch later.


The problem is there is seemingly a lot of hostility toward cord-cutting on this forum. I believe a lot of non-cord cutters tend to believe the only reason to cut the cord is to save money. In fact, I would venture to so most people who are cutting the cord and are using services like Sling TV, Hulu Plus, etc, aren't doing it solely to save money.


----------



## raqball

rainwater said:


> The problem is there is seemingly a lot of hostility toward cord-cutting on this forum. I believe a lot of non-cord cutters tend to believe the only reason to cut the cord is to save money. In fact, I would venture to so most people who are cutting the cord and are using services like Sling TV, Hulu Plus, etc, aren't doing it solely to save money.


I agree and I don't understand the hostility. I lurked for a while and was reluctant to join because of how cord-cutters are treated here..

We all have a Tivo as common ground and just choose to use it in slightly different manners..

If I ever did the complete math I've probably saved nothing. To me cord cutting is a hobby. I am constantly buying new gear to try out. Some ends up in a closet collecting dust and some is sold at a loss.

Recently I tried the Fire TV. Didn't like it and sold it at a loss. I tried a Tablo, didn't like it and sold it at a loss. I tried a Channel Master DVR+, didn't like it and sold it at a loss.

I have 4 different antennas, a Roku stick, a chromecast and a Nexus Player sitting in my closet unused because I either didn't like them or don't have a current use for them at the moment.

I pay for a MLB.TV subscription, a NHL Gamecenter subscription, and a Netflix subscription. Even with all of these subscriptions I do still save monthly but that's not my main goal.

If someone does not like cord-cutting then that is fine by me. I won't jump into every cable TV thread and put people down for paying for that service. I would never cram my opinion about paying for channels you'd never watch down someones throat. I'm not going to jump into every cable TV thread and use my 'cord cutter math' on them either..

Anyway, I do agree with you 110%!

It would be nice if we could have an area for cord cutters but my guess is that it would become more of the same ole' cord cutter bashing..

Back to Sling TV: I'd be happy with an app, I'd be thrilled if it could integrate Sling's channels into the Tivo guide and I be ecstatic if you could record.

I personally think it's a good service. It's only been available for what 5 weeks? It will get better and more features and channels will be added over time...


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## HarperVision

rainwater said:


> The problem is there is seemingly a lot of hostility toward cord-cutting on this forum. I believe a lot of non-cord cutters tend to believe the only reason to cut the cord is to save money. In fact, I would venture to so most people who are cutting the cord and are using services like Sling TV, Hulu Plus, etc, aren't doing it solely to save money.


I agree. I've actually been investigating and keeping up with implementing this possibility for awhile now. Mostly because it seems this house is getting addicted to TV and some mindless time wasting shows. It seems whenever they're bored or have any free time they just turn on the boob-tube, turn off their brain and motivation and find something useless and unhealthy to watch, just for the sake of wasting time. Granted, that's ok sometimes when you just want to zone out and reset, but it's getting to be all they do now when there's any seemingly free time for them.

I've experimented and it seems if it's not so convenient to plop down and channel surf then they just don't do it as much.

Of course a side benefit may be that it saves a few bucks as well.


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## achalupa

I'm also an excited sling tv user. I've been a TiVo user since 2003, but dropped cable back in 2007 and have been OTA only since. I dropped cable because I moved and my only choices for cable television channels were satellite providers. I thought that was going to be temporary, but it turns out the local cable provider just doesn't want to run service to my in-town neighborhood.

I didn't miss cable all that much, but there were certain stations that I missed periodically (ESPN, Food Network, TNT, TBS). Having to watch commercials isn't ideal, but I just bring up my phone and do something else. To me the $20 / month is well worth it - especially as March Madness starts!

I would like to see sling added as an OTT application, but I'm not counting on it. Either way I'll continue to be a happy TiVo user.


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## Inigo Montoya

HarperVision said:


> I agree. I've actually been investigating and keeping up with implementing this possibility for awhile now. Mostly because it seems this house is getting addicted to TV and some mindless time wasting shows. It seems whenever they're bored or have any free time they just turn on the boob-tube, turn off their brain and motivation and find something useless and unhealthy to watch, just for the sake of wasting time. Granted, that's ok sometimes when you just want to zone out and reset, but it's getting to be all they do now when there's any seemingly free time for them.
> 
> I've experimented and it seems if it's not so convenient to plop down and channel surf then they just don't do it as much.
> 
> Of course a side benefit may be that it saves a few bucks as well.


This is the main motivation behind my dropping cable in favor of OTA as well.

Time is precious, and when I realized that my family (including me) were falling into the habit of mindlessly surfing 100+ channels or just watching to watch, I decided it was better to cut the cord. The financial benefit is just a bonus.

That's not to say we eliminated watching TV altogether - far from it. Between OTA, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu & online streaming, etc. we still watch way more than I would like. But at least it's more controlled, more intentional, and more on our schedule. Baby steps.

Having made that break years ago, we really don't miss much specific programming, as we've long since made it through withdrawal symptoms. I'm sure there are a ton of shows I would get sucked into if I watched them, but the point is I don't WANT any more temptations to spend more time in front of the screen, just like I don't want more temptations to over-eat or over-imbibe. I am trying to unplug from the Matrix, partly because it's so easy not to fight it and go with the flow!

The only programming I personally really miss without the cable is live sports, which I deal with by occasionally heading to the corner pub to catch games I'm really interested in seeing. Given this, the Sing TV ESPN offering alone would pay for itself with one game a month. That alone is worth it to me - I don't care about the rest.


----------



## krkaufman

Philmatic said:


> You do realize they do in fact have live streaming? ... Sling TV, which is a true IPTV service for $20 that streams several real channels.
> 
> http://www.sling.com/
> 
> A Roamio OTA *+ Sling TV* + Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and HBO GO would be amazeballs. *Add Plex and I'll give you my first born child.*


Concur. Complete amazeballs. PLEX would be my first choice, since I just locked in to a 2-yr deal with Comcast (largely owing to Roamio/Minis, XOD4TiVo & OnePass) and have that need right NOW -- to make 15TBs of local content available via our new TiVos -- but I'd love to have a SlingTV-like option available within the next 18 months, as the Comcast agreement nears its end.

Well, I'd also like to see XOD4TiVo be quite a bit more consistent in launching, and, of course, the addition of user profiles and associated interested/watched filtering of content, so feel free to work them all in together. Thanks!


----------



## telemark

raqball said:


> I tried a Tablo, didn't like it and sold it at a loss. I tried a Channel Master DVR+, didn't like it and sold it at a loss.


You should chime in on those alternate OTA dvr threads that pop up now and then.


----------



## raqball

telemark said:


> You should chime in on those alternate OTA dvr threads that pop up now and then.


From my lurking and posting time here, this forum is pretty hostile towards OTA'ers so now I'm back to mainly just reading and lurking..

But yes, I've tried just about every OTA DVR available looking for the best OTA option and the Tivo Roamio has won for me at least..


----------



## telemark

If it's any consolation, I could make a long list of those who feel ostracized by their preferences and use cases, but I would get bored before it's finished.

A short list though looks like:

Those who like to record in SD
Those on OTA
Those who want to add a security system
Those wanting to pay monthly
Those trying to use ClearQAM without CableCard
Those buying 4K TV's
Those buying older model Tivo's
If you were to believe that, then the conclusion would be the only right way to use a Tivo is a Roamio on Lifetime with CableCard on a HDTV but not SD nor 4K.

Tivo Corp should be really proud they make a product that people use in so many different ways. Whether those differences unifies vs divides their user community, is determined by those individuals.

There's a programming community with the motto:
There's more than one way to do it​I don't see why that can't apply to other contexts.

I understand the feeling to not bother, but...
If you feel this community is hostile to your honest views, lurking instead of expressing them just makes the community as a whole more one-sided or mono-tone.


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## atmuscarella

raqball said:


> From my lurking and posting time here, this forum is pretty hostile towards OTA'ers so now I'm back to mainly just reading and lurking..
> 
> But yes, I've tried just about every OTA DVR available looking for the best OTA option and the Tivo Roamio has won for me at least..


I have been OTA only ever since I went HD and really haven't noticed any hostility and I quit often mention I am OTA only. Sure there have been several forum members that don't get why someone would go OTA only and spend money on a TiVo just for OTA but mostly what I have seen is people who are likely Trolls trying to bad month using a TiVo for OTA to point people to other solutions - they tend to be new members with low post counts.

Of course there is the fact that 4 of the last 6 TiVos released don't work with OTA so there are lots of people who own a TiVo without the option to use it for OTA. Not sure how that plays out, other than they likely find threads about OTA/cord cutting pretty boring. Perhaps not being able to continue using their TiVo if they left cable makes them a little testy when the topic comes up.


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## connie_w

I think the evidence of a growing market is the number of devices that have come out that are alternates to cable/satellite. Chromecast, FireTV, Firestick, .... and other services that offer some sort of programming over internet and are heavily marketed. People are cutting the cord to cable/satellite, not all are going OTA, perhaps because OTA hasn't been marketed well. Other than one of those sort of sleazy half-hour commercial series marketing a flat antenna, I really don't see anyone advertising OTA solutions. I don't believe I've ever seen marketing of Tivo in the past few years. The only reason I found out about it was a fluke because even googling cord cutting Tivo doesn't pop up well. Even Tivo's site really lacks in clear marketing of their solutions.

Tivo has the best of both worlds, in that it does have OTA with DVR and the capability to do much more, so the addition of a Sling TV app or other apps like it would be fantastic, IMO. The more Tivo can offer in those types of apps the better. I like not having multiple devices/sticks/boxes to get the programming I want on my tv.


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## Inigo Montoya

raqball said:


> From my lurking and posting time here, this forum is pretty hostile towards OTA'ers so now I'm back to mainly just reading and lurking..
> 
> But yes, I've tried just about every OTA DVR available looking for the best OTA option and the Tivo Roamio has won for me at least..


Well, I may be new around here, but I appreciate your contributions, as your experience and preferences seem very similar to mine.

I think all the arguing about cord cutters and the importance (or not) of this niche tends to miss the forest for the trees. i think the cable companies & content providers are rightly scared, but not just because of cord cutters but because of the inescapable trends away from traditional TV consumption in favor of subscription streaming video services. We tend to view things through the lens we are familiar with, while dismissing as unimportant or niche fringes those things that deviate from the traditional. Content companies know they have to evolve or die.

This is a lesson mass media has had to learn time and time again. Telecom was radically transformed, not by choice but by necessity. The music and newspaper industries both largely failed to evolve and adopt to digital models before they were disrupted in ways that changed the underlying business structures irreparably.

Television knows they can't afford to do that. Already the expanding content opportunities means that it's harder than ever for content creators to amass huge viewing audiences (outside of major sporting events such as the Super Bowl and World Cup). The number of people tuning into live primetime TV for a hit show is far lower than the numbers from even a decade ago, and that's only going to continue, especially since this trend is most pronounced with the under 34 demographic (i.e. the future consumer king).

The reality is, if content creators don't skate to where the puck is going to be, they'll be disrupted by a new generation of content creators and options.

The current players might as well disrupt themselves, lest they risk being out of the game entirely in the future. There is still plenty of money to be made in delivering the content that is still in demand, but _the way that content is delivered_ must change. And that's no niche strategy.

That is why it's not about cord cutters so much as the whole evolution in the way content is increasingly being consumed. And why services like Sling TV will increasingly disrupt the traditional cable industry. The Force is with them!

But thanks for noticing us anyway!


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## Series3Sub

rainwater said:


> Send what to production? This service is offered by Dish. I doubt it would make very much sense to offer it on TiVo given the small number of users it would appeal to on the TiVo platform.


Dish provides the Netflix app on all its Hoppers with Sling. So, SlingTV on TiVo is far from impossible. And Ergen and Rogers are on friendly terms (yes, personally friendly even during the lawsuit). Yes, SlingTV on TiVo would be great for both TiVo and Sling. The question for Ergen and Rogers is WHO is going to pay the money to make it work on TiVo boxes. I'm sure Charlie thinks Tom ought to pay for it, while Tom thinks Charlie should. But it is possible.


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## randy1649

I never expected to see Vudu on Tivo. 
Especially since Vudu is a Wal-Mart branded.
But here it is, Vudu on Tivo.
So Sling TV could be next, or in the works.
After all, these are paid services beyond Tivo fee's.
So I would think whom ever runs Sling TV would welcome the added subscribers.

I do subscribe to Sling TV, but... I find it a bit unreliable and seems to work-stream better during the late night-early morning hours.
Which tells me that SlingTV is still in the growing phase.
As soon as they can add more servers and faster servers, SlingTV should improve like Netflix has done.
I remember the early years of Netflix, it was pretty bad and streaming was hit and miss.
Today, streams like a charm.
I suspect SlingTV is going thru their own growing pains as well.
And as funds allow, they too will improve.


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## johnfasc

This conversation has grown and I appreciate all the input into this thread since I first possed the question. I would really like to see what TiVo has to say about this. Maybe from a moderator?


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## bradleys

johnfasc said:


> This conversation has grown and I appreciate all the input into this thread since I first possed the question. I would really like to see what TiVo has to say about this. Maybe from a moderator?


This is an independent forum from TiVo, the moderators generally get updates at the same time we do - when Margret decides to leave us a post.

Dave Zatz is a blogger that at one time would get fed inside information from time to time -but even that has dwindled to a trickle over the last few years.

TiVo tends to be very careful what and when it communicates things (and gets a little annoyed when secrets leak)

So even if they were planing to release SlingTV during this next update - you wouldn't know it and they aren't likely to share.


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## Dan203

Sling is owned by Dish. Dish was sued by TiVo and forced to pay them $500 million, plus licensing, to settle. I seriously doubt Dish is going to jump at the chance to make their new service compatible with TiVo.


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## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> Sling is owned by Dish. Dish was sued by TiVo and forced to pay them $500 million, plus licensing, to settle. I seriously doubt Dish is going to jump at the chance to make their new service compatible with TiVo.


Didn't someone say that the two CEOs are good friends though?


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## Dan203

Dish/Ecostar is one of our customers. I remember talking to our contact there a few years ago, before the lawsuit was settled, and I mentioned something about TiVo and he said "we're not allowed to speak that name in our office". So there is, or at least was, some company wide disdain toward TiVo.


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## More_Cowbell

I'm jumping in and I have no problems with people saying "You're stupid!" 

I have a Tivo OTA (the cheap one) and Netflix and Amazon Prime and am very happy without cable. But now that Mad Men and Game of Thrones are coming, both of which I could see on Sling TV, I'm wondering about getting a fire stick. As I understand it, I can plug this into my TV but it will have no interaction with my Tivo-- the Tivo screen won't recognize it, and I couldn't Tivo any content (I know that the Sling content can be retrieved for a few days, but sometimes that's not enough). 

Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance!

P.S. I'd just buy these things on iTunes but Sling TV has some stations that I miss, like AMC and the History Channel, so the $20 would be worth it (plus, for a few months, the HBO cost).


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## Dan203

SlingTV will not work with your TiVo in anyway. It has basically two modes built right into it's app. It has a live TV mode where you watch one of the channels live right now and it has a VOD mode where you can watch some previously aired content. I have not used it myself but it's my understanding that the VOD selection is not complete and in some cases they force you to watch commercials when watching VOD. (just like cable VOD)

Playstation Vue is similar except they have a cloud based DVR service where you can record anything you want from any of their channels with full FF capabilities. The only caveat with them is that it will only retain recordings for 28 days, so you'll need to watch things quickly. 

For Game of Thrones you're probably better off just getting HBONow.


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## More_Cowbell

Thanks! I don't have cable though, or any of the devices that HBO Now is currently partnering with. But I appreciate the information you gave me.

_edit_: Oh, wait, I see what you mean-- get a device just for GoT and forget about Sling TV. I don't think I'm at the point yet where I want to pay for a device and GoT just for a few months, though (it was the thought of getting AMC and The History Channel that made getting another device seem worth it).


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## Dan203

A FireTV Stick is only $20 if you're a Prime member. A Chromecast is only $35. So it's not a big investment to get something that will work with HBO Now. Although Apple will have an exclusive for the first 3 months so if you want to watch it right away you'll have to get an Apple TV, which is $70.


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## Adam1115

Dan203 said:


> A FireTV Stick is only $20 if you're a Prime member




Source? Coming up as $39 for me.


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## mobiledivide

More_Cowbell said:


> I'm jumping in and I have no problems with people saying "You're stupid!"
> 
> I have a Tivo OTA (the cheap one) and Netflix and Amazon Prime and am very happy without cable. But now that Mad Men and Game of Thrones are coming, both of which I could see on Sling TV, I'm wondering about getting a fire stick. As I understand it, I can plug this into my TV but it will have no interaction with my Tivo-- the Tivo screen won't recognize it, and I couldn't Tivo any content (I know that the Sling content can be retrieved for a few days, but sometimes that's not enough).
> 
> Is my understanding correct? Thanks in advance!
> 
> P.S. I'd just buy these things on iTunes but Sling TV has some stations that I miss, like AMC and the History Channel, so the $20 would be worth it (plus, for a few months, the HBO cost).


Today is your lucky day. It seems that HBO will be streaming HBO 1 on SlingTV in time for Game of Thrones as well as adding some VOD content to Sling VOD selections. 
I have a FireTV and Roamio and that is a really good combination for cord cutting. SlingTV is perfect for background television and if you have a show that you enjoy tuning in for every week (Game of Thrones for instance) because the replay features are entirely lacking. 
The cost is going to be $35 a month however but you can get a free FireTV stick if you subscribe to Sling.


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## raqball

mobiledivide said:


> The cost is going to be $35 a month however but you can get a free FireTV stick if you subscribe to Sling.


Just to clarify this.. The HBO add on is going to be $15 a month on top of the $20 a month base Sling TV package price.


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## sheshechic

I'm trying to cut the cord and I want to do so with the least amount of change required. I'm addicted to tivo, I wish I could rewind the radio now. It has changed the way we watch tv and everything else. I'm not a surfer, but hubby is, so there is that as well. I've been wanting to abandon Charter almost since we came back to them from Directv (line of sight issues) but Tivo made the experience 100x better. Charter's new pricing tier leaves few options. I'm tired of their attitudes about whole home dvr and about basic & expanded basic ($65?). Sling TV got me excited and working toward cutting the cord. All I'm waiting for now, is for them to allow streaming to more than one device at the same time. 

Being the tivo junkies that we are, sling tv on tivo would be a dream come true. However, I don't think that is going to come anytime soon since at the root of the deal with the content owners seems to be copyrights of shows. Getting the rights to stream live tv content has been the obstacle that has kept us from having live tv streaming until now. Yet still, there are some shows that aren't available despite the station being available- old, mostly CBS, reruns. For the bigger picture: to openly allow recording of streaming live tv would not only cost far too much, thus increasing the $20 price, but also bring up Aereo type issues. An example of cost is Sling vs Vue. $20 vs $60. Which brings me back to tivo. If cost is not a big consideration, then replacing my tivos with playstations would be the best option, except that they don't have ESPN. Also, for me at least, offering the service to only a few select cities is offensive to me, much like Charter's refusal to bring whole home dvr or Verizon's unfulfilled promises of fios. 

I will be cutting the cord and until streaming tv matures, Sling will be my choice. I'm not so sure that tivo will continue being my drug of choice once we adjust to sling and hulu. If we find that we're using roku more than tivo.... I'm sure that we're not the only family going through this, which can't be good for tivo. IMO, IF there is a chance that tivo can jump on the bandwagon early, they might find themselves in a better position than in the future, not only in negotiations but also in keeping and acquiring customers.


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## sheshechic

Dan203 said:


> A FireTV Stick is only $20 if you're a Prime member. A Chromecast is only $35. So it's not a big investment to get something that will work with HBO Now. Although Apple will have an exclusive for the first 3 months so if you want to watch it right away you'll have to get an Apple TV, which is $70.


That deal is exclusive only for stand alone. Cablevision will also have HBO Now.


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## rhammersmith

bradleys said:


> I am not talking about a Sling DVR, I am talking about a TiVo. A DVR doesn't do you any good at all with SlingTV - it is just an over the top app with an ESPN live streaming option - that costs $20 + a month.
> 
> My point is, since you are already paying for Internet, adding base cable TV package that includes ESPN wouldn't be that much more expensive and frankly far more flexible.
> 
> If I loved sports, wanted to save money and already had a broadband internet connection. Sling tv sure as heck wouldn't be my choice.
> 
> Just an example - Time Warner offers a $40 package with a very broad selection of channels. I would be far more likely to choose this above SlingTV.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/plans-packages/tv/digital-cable-tv-plans.html


That package is only $40 for the first 12 months. After that it hikes up another 13%. Also, it doesn't include the hardware to use the service. At the bare minimum you need to rent a card for $2.50 a month. So the package is $47.50 per month before all the regulatory taxes. So it's going to be over $50 per month after tax.

I just started my one week eval of Sling, so I don't know how reliable it is, but at $21.50 after tax per month, that $50 cable package isn't even in the same league price wise as Sling.

And like most Tivo users, I'm no fan of watching shows at specific broadcasted times, so it's not the amount of channels on Sling that appeals to me. It's the ESPN and ESPN2 channels, plus the access to ESPN3 that I want. When I watch sports, i want to watch them live, so I don't care that I can't Tivo them.

When the cheapest other option to get access to ESPN is $50 a month, $21.50 is a great deal. If cable channels ever really became a la carte pricing, ESPN would cost over $20 per month a la carte. It's the bundling that subsidizes the overall cost of ESPN by making people who don't even watch it pay for it.

Tivo connected to an antenna with Sling proving ESPN/2/3 is very, very appealing. I hope it ends up being stable. So far so good.


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## Totalogic

bradleys said:


> You don't have to convince TiVo... That is just the container - you have to convince Dish. Dish has to prepare and maintain the app to work on Tivo, and there is no financial incentive (subscription numbers) to Dish.
> 
> Even if there wasn't significant bad blood, a decade of legal battles and a multi billion dollar settlement against Dish - they still wouldn't waste their time on piddly little TiVo.


So I was looking at purchasing a TiVo for just this type of future growth but Bradleys and Rainwater have convinced me to not spend the $300 or so I was going to spend (for the main unit and the caster boxes whatever they are called) and to go buy anything else... great job.:down:


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## bradleys

Totalogic said:


> So I was looking at purchasing a TiVo for just this type of future growth but Bradleys and Rainwater have convinced me to not spend the $300 or so I was going to spend (for the main unit and the caster boxes whatever they are called) and to go buy anything else... great job.:down:


No problem, glad I could help out.

I will say, never buy any product for what you will hope they will add, only purchase a product for what they provide.

TiVo doesn't have Sling, if that is the product you are looking for - Amzon Fire and Roku are your best bets.

Simply because I say it isn't coming or that I don't feel it is going to be a good fit means nothing. The point that it doesn't currently exist and that TiVo hasn't announced a strategic partnership is the only thing you should be considering.


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## Shaggieman

It would be great if Tivo would incorporate the same flexibility as the Roku 3 player has into it's streaming TV icons. It's not that much extra work viewing separately on Roku 3 player but the DVR features of the Tivo/Mini would allow for multi room viewing. I took the 3 months Sling-TV for what works out to $10. for all 3 months. That's because you get the $99 Roku 3 player for $49 which is yours to keep after the service runs out.


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## rhammersmith

rhammersmith said:


> That package is only $40 for the first 12 months. After that it hikes up another 13%. Also, it doesn't include the hardware to use the service. At the bare minimum you need to rent a card for $2.50 a month. So the package is $47.50 per month before all the regulatory taxes. So it's going to be over $50 per month after tax.
> 
> I just started my one week eval of Sling, so I don't know how reliable it is, but at $21.50 after tax per month, that $50 cable package isn't even in the same league price wise as Sling.
> 
> And like most Tivo users, I'm no fan of watching shows at specific broadcasted times, so it's not the amount of channels on Sling that appeals to me. It's the ESPN and ESPN2 channels, plus the access to ESPN3 that I want. When I watch sports, i want to watch them live, so I don't care that I can't Tivo them.
> 
> When the cheapest other option to get access to ESPN is $50 a month, $21.50 is a great deal. If cable channels ever really became a la carte pricing, ESPN would cost over $20 per month a la carte. It's the bundling that subsidizes the overall cost of ESPN by making people who don't even watch it pay for it.
> 
> Tivo connected to an antenna with Sling proving ESPN/2/3 is very, very appealing. I hope it ends up being stable. So far so good.


So it's been four weeks since I started using Sling TV. I have not had one problem. Have watched numerous NBA games, some MLB, some Arena Football, and even some NLL (go Mammoths). Kids have watched a lot of Disney. Wife has watched a lot of HGTV. I even watched Shawshank Redemption with commercials. Three years ago we cut the cord and became an OTA with Tivo and Netflix house.... so far I'm very satisfied with what we get from Sling TV for $20. Yes of course it would be nice to DVR to content like we do with OTA channels, but even without that functionality it fills the gap between OTA and cable/satellite for a fraction of the price. There is a decent amount of on demand content through Sling, but the interface to get to it is borderline painful.


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## tivoroamio

I just saw this stating song will be on the DVR+. I think if TiVo wants to remain competitive , this is something they will probably add.
http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-05/channel-master-dvr-to-launch-sling-tv/


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## atmuscarella

tivoroamio said:


> I just saw this stating song will be on the DVR+. I think if TiVo wants to remain competitive , this is something they will probably add.
> http://zatznotfunny.com/2015-05/channel-master-dvr-to-launch-sling-tv/


It isn't up to TiVo. Dish has to decide to do it and for the most part develop the app. But I do agree it would be a good addition to TiVos.


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## tivoroamio

atmuscarella said:


> It isn't up to TiVo. Dish has to decide to do it and for the most part develop the app. But I do agree it would be a good addition to TiVos.


I think it's probably more of a mutual thing. Even if slung developed the app, TiVo would have to agree to put it on the dvr. So I don't think it's far fetched fr TiVo to approach sling about it.


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## HarperVision

tivoroamio said:


> I think it's probably more of a mutual thing. Even if slung developed the app, TiVo would have to agree to put it on the dvr. So I don't think it's far fetched fr TiVo to approach sling about it.


Especially now that they see it'll be on the DVR+.


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## sailomb

New TIVO Bolt coming out soon. The Unified set top box, but yet no Sling TV app so i'll still need my ROKU.


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## Adam1115

Isn't the Bolt already out?

I do wish I could record SlingTV with my tivo. Since I can't, I'll cancel it come January.


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## AlanCinMD

New post to old thread, but somebody at TiVo might be monitoring. I'm killing Verizon cable for OTA, Sling streaming service for a few channels the family watches, and Netflix. Thought Roamio might be my all-in-one OTA tuner and stream receiver. Not considering it any further because it doesn't have a sling channel; will use Roku and some other (probably lacking) OTA tuner.

Product feedback for TiVo for whatever its worth. Maybe they'll have a sling channel by the time we all have to buy new gear for ATSC 3.0!


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## TonyD79

AlanCinMD said:


> New post to old thread, but somebody at TiVo might be monitoring. I'm killing Verizon cable for OTA, Sling streaming service for a few channels the family watches, and Netflix. Thought Roamio might be my all-in-one OTA tuner and stream receiver. Not considering it any further because it doesn't have a sling channel; will use Roku and some other (probably lacking) OTA tuner.
> 
> Product feedback for TiVo for whatever its worth. Maybe they'll have a sling channel by the time we all have to buy new gear for ATSC 3.0!


Sling TV may be in a world of hurt after the disaster for the NBA playoffs last night.


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## BRiT wtfdotcom

TonyD79 said:


> Sling TV may be in a world of hurt after the disaster for the NBA playoffs last night.


What happened?


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## schatham

BRiT wtfdotcom said:


> What happened?


TNT sling channel failed (NBA game 7). Probably server overload. Any internet TV is going to have issues for very popular live tv events. I have Sling and like it. I would suggest adding the Hollywood extra for $5. This really beefs up the channel lineup.


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## foghorn2

schatham said:


> TNT sling channel failed (NBA game 7). Probably server overload. Any internet TV is going to have issues for very popular live tv events. I have Sling and like it. I would suggest adding the Hollywood extra for $5. This really beefs up the channel lineup.


But people here say IP TV is better than sliced bread.

IPTV SUCKS!!! IT ALWAYS WILL!!


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## TonyD79

schatham said:


> TNT sling channel failed (NBA game 7). Probably server overload. Any internet TV is going to have issues for very popular live tv events. I have Sling and like it. I would suggest adding the Hollywood extra for $5. This really beefs up the channel lineup.


I'm betting they lose a lot of subs over that. It was a high demand program that Sling used as a selling point. It was very ugly in Twitter and Facebook last night.


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## HarperVision

foghorn2 said:


> But people here say IP TV is better than sliced bread. IPTV SUCKS!!! IT ALWAYS WILL!!


Maybe now in its infancy, but it will not "always will".

Any reports of it dropping on Vue?


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## atmuscarella

I really don't think the delivery tech used for linear TV matters that much. Linear TV delivered by ATSC (OTA), QAM (cable), DBS (satellite), & IP, can and do all fail at times. 

What matters to most of us around here is quality of the stream, if we can record it with our TiVos, and any restrictions placed on what we can do with our recordings. With linear TV services using IP as their delivery tech all that really matters is how the FCC regulates it. 

Right now we are sh** out of luck because their are no FCC requirements, if that continues then linear TV delivered via IP will always suck from my point of view.


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## iamjpad

There is no excuse, SlingTV app is needed for Tivo also.

Channel Master DVR+ has pretty much the same functionality of Tivo OTA, it is literally the same functionality without the subscription. Yet somehow they get a SlingTV app already.

So from my point of view, DVR+ users can now do SlingTV, OTA, Youtube, VUDU, etc, yet Tivo can't have SlingTV?
But somehow someone has been here yapping on about how small the footprint is for Tivo OTA being the reason for not having SlingTV. Really?? Explain the footprint of DVR+ then?

Tivo is not getting SlingTV because of some other reason, it has nothing to do with footprint and more to do with market protection.

Tivo OTA cannot have SlingTV without it making it to Tivo Cable boxes. If Tivo cable boxes have SlingTV guess what they would do? Cut the Cord.

I am going to be cutting the cord either way. I would consider ditching Tivo at this point if they can't have SlingTV.


My next best option would be to pair Roku interface to (Tablo + Plex + SlingTV)

Use Tablo for Live OTA TV and DVR functionality for OTA.
Tablo now has a new Plex Channel functionality 
Roku to watch both live TV from Tablo using the new Plex Tablo channel, Sling TV directly on Roku and my own media also from Plex.
I still have no viable way of recording live sports from SlingTV

Damn: I could avoid all this if SlingTV would be added to Tivo. I'm simply going back to my Roku setup.


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## NashGuy

foghorn2 said:


> But people here say IP TV is better than sliced bread.
> 
> IPTV SUCKS!!! IT ALWAYS WILL!!


I had no reliability problems with IPTV from AT&T Uverse. The picture was a bit too compressed but that was due to a lack of bandwidth in AT&T's old copper telephone lines, not due to any flaw inherent in IPTV, per se. IPTV from Google Fiber reportedly looks amazing and works well.


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## tenthplanet

iamjpad said:


> There is no excuse, SlingTV app is needed for Tivo also.
> 
> Channel Master DVR+ has pretty much the same functionality of Tivo OTA, it is literally the same functionality without the subscription. Yet somehow they get a SlingTV app already.
> 
> So from my point of view, DVR+ users can now do SlingTV, OTA, Youtube, VUDU, etc, yet Tivo can't have SlingTV?
> But somehow someone has been here yapping on about how small the footprint is for Tivo OTA being the reason for not having SlingTV. Really?? Explain the footprint of DVR+ then?
> 
> Tivo is not getting SlingTV because of some other reason, it has nothing to do with footprint and more to do with market protection.
> 
> Tivo OTA cannot have SlingTV without it making it to Tivo Cable boxes. If Tivo cable boxes have SlingTV guess what they would do? Cut the Cord.
> 
> I am going to be cutting the cord either way. I would consider ditching Tivo at this point if they can't have SlingTV.
> 
> My next best option would be to pair Roku interface to (Tablo + Plex + SlingTV)
> 
> Use Tablo for Live OTA TV and DVR functionality for OTA.
> Tablo now has a new Plex Channel functionality
> Roku to watch both live TV from Tablo using the new Plex Tablo channel, Sling TV directly on Roku and my own media also from Plex.
> I still have no viable way of recording live sports from SlingTV
> 
> Damn: I could avoid all this if SlingTV would be added to Tivo. I'm simply going back to my Roku setup.


 Putting in apps on recording devices for things that can not be recorded makes no sense anyway. If you want to record sports you might want to look at PS vue.


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## tenthplanet

schatham said:


> TNT sling channel failed (NBA game 7). Probably server overload. Any internet TV is going to have issues for very popular live tv events. I have Sling and like it. I would suggest adding the Hollywood extra for $5. This really beefs up the channel lineup.


 I have Sling also, you are right about internet TV issues with big live events, or Walking Dead and Game of Thrones premiers. If you are watching TV on the internet in real time you are still a bit of a pioneer.


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## HarperVision

iamjpad said:


> There is no excuse, SlingTV app is needed for Tivo also. Channel Master DVR+ has pretty much the same functionality of Tivo OTA, it is literally the same functionality without the subscription. Yet somehow they get a SlingTV app already. So from my point of view, DVR+ users can now do SlingTV, OTA, Youtube, VUDU, etc, yet Tivo can't have SlingTV? But somehow someone has been here yapping on about how small the footprint is for Tivo OTA being the reason for not having SlingTV. Really?? Explain the footprint of DVR+ then? Tivo is not getting SlingTV because of some other reason, it has nothing to do with footprint and more to do with market protection. Tivo OTA cannot have SlingTV without it making it to Tivo Cable boxes. If Tivo cable boxes have SlingTV guess what they would do? Cut the Cord. I am going to be cutting the cord either way. I would consider ditching Tivo at this point if they can't have SlingTV. My next best option would be to pair Roku interface to (Tablo + Plex + SlingTV) Use Tablo for Live OTA TV and DVR functionality for OTA. Tablo now has a new Plex Channel functionality Roku to watch both live TV from Tablo using the new Plex Tablo channel, Sling TV directly on Roku and my own media also from Plex. I still have no viable way of recording live sports from SlingTV Damn: I could avoid all this if SlingTV would be added to Tivo. I'm simply going back to my Roku setup.





tenthplanet said:


> Putting in apps on recording devices for things that can not be recorded makes no sense anyway. If you want to record sports you might want to look at PS vue.


I agree PS Vue would be a much better option than SlingTV. They have a new Roku channel now too. If you're in an area that has the local channels on Vue, even better. Then no need for Tablo or OTA!


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## iamjpad

HarperVision said:


> I agree PS Vue would be a much better option than SlingTV. They have a new Roku channel now too. If you're in an area that has the local channels on Vue, even better. Then no need for Tablo or OTA!


Pretty much made my point for me. This is not about DVR functionality or whatever you call it.

This is about cord cutting with my Tivo. I have Tivo which pretty much does everything, it has hulu, netflix, amazon videos and my beloved plex. Everything is covered almost.

The problem is all it does is OTA or pay for cable tv. So for live sports I'm stuck with paying for cable. SlingTV would allow me to get those without cable tv prices. All we need is a SlingTV app like amazon app on Tivo and I'm set.

It seems that Roku is pretty much the one box to rule them all afterall. It has plex, netflix, hulu and of course slingtv. Yes it has no DVR, but I don't really care for DVR, I have plex afterall.

As for Vue, I'll pass as I see it is 40$. Might as well pay for cable tv afterall my Tivo is paid up lifetime. Adding Tv to fios internet bundle will cost less than 40$.


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## tryx911

Actually Vue starts at 29.99 (and is the package shown in the pic) and gives more channels and cloud dvr is included in the price and unlike Slingtv Vue works very well! For 10 bucks more it's not even close Vue is without a doubt a far superior to Slingtv!



iamjpad said:


> Pretty much made my point for me. This is not about DVR functionality or whatever you call it.
> 
> This is about cord cutting with my Tivo. I have Tivo which pretty much does everything, it has hulu, netflix, amazon videos and my beloved plex. Everything is covered almost.
> 
> The problem is all it does is OTA or pay for cable tv. So for live sports I'm stuck with paying for cable. SlingTV would allow me to get those without cable tv prices. All we need is a SlingTV app like amazon app on Tivo and I'm set.
> 
> It seems that Roku is pretty much the one box to rule them all afterall. It has plex, netflix, hulu and of course slingtv. Yes it has no DVR, but I don't really care for DVR, I have plex afterall.
> 
> As for Vue, I'll pass as I see it is 40$. Might as well pay for cable tv afterall my Tivo is paid up lifetime. Adding Tv to fios internet bundle will cost less than 40$.


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## HarperVision

tryx911 said:


> actually vue starts at 29.99 (and is the package shown in the pic) and gives more channels and cloud dvr is included in the price and unlike slingtv vue works very well! For 10 bucks more it's not even close vue is without a doubt a far superior to slingtv!


+1


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## EM pole

TiVo OTA the greatest. The ability to seamlessly surf and record) all of the OTA channels (of which our market has over 75) PLUS interconnect with a growing list of internet sources is just what the doctor ordered. 

So why not Sling???

I encourage TiVo management to solve the issues with Sling. If this can happen the whole world of sports broadcasts via Sling opens up to the consumer. Its just another step in breaking the cable monopoly. A few years ago this capability was not in place. Now? You bet. TiVo users are missing out until this interface is made.


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## krkaufman

EM pole said:


> TiVo OTA the greatest. The ability to seamlessly surf and record) all of the OTA channels (of which our market has over 75) PLUS interconnect with a growing list of internet sources is just what the doctor ordered.
> 
> So why not Sling???
> 
> *I encourage TiVo management to solve the issues with Sling.* If this can happen the whole world of sports broadcasts via Sling opens up to the consumer. Its just another step in breaking the cable monopoly. A few years ago this capability was not in place. Now? You bet. TiVo users are missing out until this interface is made.


See: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Request-a-New-Feature


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## Adam1115

EM pole said:


> So why not Sling???.


Sling is owned by DISH Network. Who HATES TiVo. There is no chance of this ever happening as long as Dish is involved.


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## krkaufman

Adam1115 said:


> Sling is owned by DISH Network. Who HATES TiVo. There is no chance of this ever happening as long as Dish is involved.


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## HarperVision

Adam1115 said:


> Sling is owned by DISH Network. Who HATES TiVo. There is no chance of this ever happening as long as Dish is involved.


Why do people keep saying this?


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## idksmy

Adam1115 said:


> Sling is owned by DISH Network. Who HATES TiVo. There is no chance of this ever happening as long as Dish is involved.


Successful companies do what make economic sense. Emotions, like 'HATE' are checked at the conference room door.


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## NashGuy

Just depends on whether Sling TV determines it makes dollars and sense to develop and support a version of their app to work on TiVo given the number of prospective additional subscribers (based on the number households using a modern TiVo without cable TV) they would stand to gain.

The good news is that they're already on all the major TV-connected streaming platforms out there (except PlayStation, possibly because of the competing PS Vue service). And they're even on a not-very-popular OTA DVR from Channel Master (which I'm sure wouldn't be the case if it weren't for the corporate connection through their parent Dish).

The bad news is that Sling TV hasn't bothered porting their app to any smart TV platforms, which tend to use the same or similar kind of HTML5-coded apps that TiVo uses. (Maybe the Channel Master DVR+ uses HTML5 apps, I don't know.) And given my experience with HTML5 apps on the Roamio and what I've seen of the new Sling TV UI, I wonder whether it would run very well as an HTML5 app on any TiVo older than the Bolt.

It will be interesting to see what the total 2016 sales numbers end up being for the 1 TB TiVo Roamio OTA. I think that will give us a good idea whether we'll see any new cord-cutter-targeted apps like Sling TV, HBO Now, etc. get developed for TiVo going forward.


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## Adam1115

idksmy said:


> Successful companies do what make economic sense. Emotions, like 'HATE' are checked at the conference room door.


Successful companies have competitors they are rivals with. It's fairly normal....

TiVo and Dish are competitors, Dish had to pay TiVo a lot of money. A partnership is... unlikely.


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## idksmy

Adam1115 said:


> Successful companies have competitors they are rivals with. It's fairly normal....


I agree, competitors are rivals.



Adam1115 said:


> TiVo and Dish are competitors, Dish had to pay TiVo a lot of money. A partnership is... unlikely.


I made no comment re: the likelihood of a partnership between Tivo and Dish.

My single comment was successful companies make deals based on economics, not emotion.


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## rainwater

Adam1115 said:


> TiVo and Dish are competitors, Dish had to pay TiVo a lot of money. A partnership is... unlikely.


http://www.multichannel.com/news/content/rovi-dish-sign-10-year-patent-license-renewal/407161


> Rovi said Monday it has inked a ten-year patent license agreement with Dish Network.





> Rovi and Dish also noted the patent license renewal is also subject to certain contingences tied to the closing of Rovis proposed $1.1 billion acquisition of TiVo, currently expected to become effective on Sept. 7.


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## TonyD79

idksmy said:


> Successful companies do what make economic sense. Emotions, like 'HATE' are checked at the conference room door.


You need to read up on Charlie Ergen.


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## PaulFromMD

I think it would be really cool if the Tivo Roamio OTA and the Roku merged into a single unit. Now THAT would be a cord cutter's dream!


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## numbskull

PaulFromMD said:


> I think it would be really cool if the Tivo Roamio OTA and the Roku merged into a single unit. Now THAT would be a cord cutter's dream!


Dream on, right? TiVo isn't very good at making strategic moves.


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## MikeBear

numbskull said:


> Dream on, right? TiVo isn't very good at making strategic moves.


They aren't even good anymore at providing good guide data. Which is their ONLY TRUE product!


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## Wil

MikeBear said:


> They aren't even good anymore at providing good guide data.


True. But I don't think we are giving them enough credit. For awhile they weren't even good at providing bad guide data (as opposed to no data at all), they couldn't even do that. Right now they are reasonably good, or almost good anyway, at providing bad guide data. A big step forward.


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## Mugs01

Anyone who wants sling tv added try requesting it here
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Request-a-New-Feature


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