# Scart to HDMI



## Hustiniano (Nov 4, 2002)

Sorry to ask such a basic question... but I am about to replace my CRT TV with a new LCD version, and the new TV does not have a SCART input - just HDMIs. How to I connect the TIVO to the TV?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I'm not aware of any TVs which ONLY have HDMI inputs. You must have some analogue options - give us the model number and we'll check.


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## Hustiniano (Nov 4, 2002)

Ah right....
I am looking at the Toshiba 40XF55OU
It says it has 3 HDMI inputs, 2 Component Video Inputs, an A/V and an S-Video input and a High Res PC Input S-XGA (15 pin Dsub)

So what is the best way of making the connection for best picture quality? I have just bought a Mode0 enabled drive....

Thanks


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

If it's one of these Toshiba 40XF*3*55OU  then it does actually have 2 scarts....


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

The only 40XF55OU I can find is an American TV? The UK version is the one Mike mentioned, which has SCARTs. The US model is unlikely to support TiVo on any of its inputs .


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

If you have no scarts you can get a JS-Technology RGB SCART to Component convertor box or a SCART to VGA convertor.

I used one that converts RGB SCART to VGA for my old Fujitsu plasma for about 6 years!

The JS-Technology is one of the best convertors picture quality wise.

However ,a dedicated video processor (Lumagen, Crystallio,DVDO) will also convert signals and further improve pq.

The best PQ will be to SDI-modify the TiVo and feed SDI to a video processor and then HDMI to the screen.
Though by the time you have spent that money it will be time to upgrade the screen to a Pioneer, Fujitsu,Panasonic PF10,Runco or Vidikron screen


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

cyril said:


> The best PQ will be to SDI-modify the TiVo and feed SDI to a video processor and then HDMI to the screen.
> Though by the time you have spent that money it will be time to upgrade the screen to a Pioneer, Fujitsu,Panasonic PF10,Runco or Vidikron screen


Though to be honest - if you care about picture quality that much - then you are better off removing the additional Tivo encode/decode process from the equation entirely...

A PVR that records a digital MPEG2 stream off-air losslessly would be a better bet - as in this case there is no quality difference between the off-air signal viewed live and a recording. (Sky+, Freeview Playback PVRs and PC solutions such as Windows Media Center, MythTV et al. using DVB-S/S2/-T capture cards all offer this)

However if the Tivo UI is that important to you - then an SDI modded model will offer the best quality output possible from a UK Tivo - though you will need a processor that accepts an SDI input. This is NOT a cheap solution... (It may well cost more than your telly...)

Pretty much every HD Ready TV I've seen on sale in the UK has had at least one RGB SCART - so connectivity shouldn't be an issue. HOWEVER - as Cyril says - the quality of SD de-interlacing and scaling is very variable between different models of TVs.

In fact one reason I'm still interested in the PS3 PlayTV dual-Freeview tuner add-on, is that the PS3 seems to offer pretty good quality de-interlacing and scaling. When I watch 576i SD DVDs and 576i MPEG2 recordings on the PS3 at 1080/50p via HDMI on my Full HD display, the results are far better than feeding a 576i signal directly into the TV via RGB SCART, or feeding the 576p Sky+ HD de-interlaced SD output via HDMI (Sky+ HD's de-interlacing of 576i to 576p leaves a lot to be desired).


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Careful some TV's won't accept 576i over HDMI .

Been there done that, reverted to SCART to VGA to get picture in.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Aren't SCARTs a legal requirement on a UK TV over a certain size?

If it is an American TV it may bot accept 50Hz signals at all.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Ian_m said:


> Careful some TV's won't accept 576i over HDMI .


Yep - and (contrary to what I thought) I've checked the EICTA site and it only stipulates 720p (50 and 60Hz) and 1080i (50 and 60Hz) compatibility via HDMI/DVI/YPbPr inputs. I was under the impression it mandated 576i/p and 480i/p compatibility as well...

That said - if your TV is relatively modern then it may well support 576i via HDMI, it is the early HDMI TVs that didn't offer it.

576i and 480i have too low a pixel rate for standard HDMI interconnects (a standard SD signal is below the minimum pixel clock rate) - to solve this they send every pixel twice to double the clock rate I believe.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Aren't SCARTs a legal requirement on a UK TV over a certain size?


Yes - in Europe I believe they are, and have been since the 80s. They don't have to be RGB capable though - I think composite only is acceptable?



> If it is an American TV it may bot accept 50Hz signals at all.


Yep - 50Hz compatibility is relatively rare on US TVs, whilst in the reverse case, 60Hz compatiblity is common in Europe, and mandated for 720p and 1080i on HD Ready displays.


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## Hustiniano (Nov 4, 2002)

Thank you all for your inputs, if you'll excuse the pun 

You are of course all correct, the TV model I was browsing is indeed a USA model and not available here. The equivalent here is the Toshiba 40XF355D - which does have 2 scart sockets.... only 50hz, but it is 1080P.

But having read some of the stuff on this thread, I am now a bit worried that I will pay £800 on a shiny new LCD, and end up being very unsatisfied with the picture - as we watch most our TV via recordings on TIVO, and the the rest live via freeview.... so no HD feed, and most of it compressed through TIVO.

Is it the general experience of the forum that TIVO and 40" LCD TVs are not happy bed partners? I do have a new hard drive I am about to install that has mode0 on it....

What is other people's experience here....


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

What will be the source you are feeding your Tivo with, and what channels do you watch most of ?

Freeview is higher quality than satellite for ITV1 and C4. This is because Ofcom force them to broadcast at full SD res on Freeview, but don't (or can't) mandate the same for satellite, so ITV1 and C4 are broadcast at reduced resolution on satellite.

Personally I find ITV1 on DSat unwatchable on a 40" Sony Bravia without a Tivo in circuit... 

I found my Tivo OK on a 28" CRT - but even then, with Mode 0 enabled, the quality loss was noticable. (I began shifting to Windows Media Center and an XBox 360 via RGB SCART for most of my viewing as the quality was noticably better) I retired the Tivo before I started using the 40" display - but it may be an issue. You certainly become very aware of compression artefacts on SD satellite channels when watching on a 40" screen.


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## Hustiniano (Nov 4, 2002)

Thanks for your thoughts.
We mostly watch the main channels - BBC1 BBC2 ITV1 C4 E4 C4+1 E4+1 BBC3
fed to TIVO through a Philips Freeview Digital box 

Given what you say, maybe Sky+ is going to get me in the end then


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Hustiniano said:


> I do have a new hard drive I am about to install that has mode0 on it....


You may wish to try out mode0's performance in your Tivo before you invest in a telly.
While mode0 is fine for some people, others, myself included, find it causes LOTS of white flickers at the bottom of the screen. On my system it does it so much that I reverted to normal settings.

By "LOTS" I mean it does it every 10 to 20 seconds but it it in the bottom half-inch of the telly (28" CRT).

Cheers,

Ian


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## tonywalk (Sep 10, 2002)

Hustiniano said:


> Thanks for your thoughts.
> We mostly watch the main channels - BBC1 BBC2 ITV1 C4 E4 C4+1 E4+1 BBC3
> fed to TIVO through a Philips Freeview Digital box
> 
> Given what you say, maybe Sky+ is going to get me in the end then


Having just upgraded tellies to a 46" Toshiba 46ZF355DB I can say that on an large LCD you will notice the MPEG artifacts.

However, and it's a big however, Tivo only adds a minimum of extra artifacts to an already rubbish signal. Good signals such as BBC1 during non-news/factual programming are very watchable. Playback from the Tivo is excellent too with the same GIGO caveat. This is on "Best" and I haven't gone "Mode 0".

This set also has a pair of RGB capable SCARTs. A review of the XF355D on Trusted Reviews http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/review/2007/12/07/Toshiba-Regza-40XF355D-40in-LCD-TV/p1
marks the 40" version of the XF355D down. I have personally seen the 40XF355D and its red framed brother the 356D and didn't spot any problems with the picture, indeed it persuaded me to not buy the xxZ3030D model and wait for the ZF series with the XF panel.

AVforums is good for info too - link puts you straight into the LCD TV section
http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=155

As a slight aside, HD on the 46ZF355DB looks stunning.

Hoe this helps,
Tony.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

I think it very much depends on how sensitive/critical you are to picture quality.

I found myself really noticing the MPEG artefacts Tivo was introducing when I was running the box in parallel with a Windows Media Center installation (both running via RGB SCART to a 50Hz SD 16:9 Sony WEGA TV) - and this was using Mode 0 (though I was lucky and only got occasional white flashes)

The convenience of the Tivo was great though - now that I run a Sky+ HD system HDMI into a 40W2000 Bravia I really miss the ease of Wishlists and Season Passes, but the picture quality of Sky HD (and BBC HD and C4 HD) mean that I couldn't go back. 

(Also beware running an XBox 360 as a Media Center Extender in HD modes. Whilst in SD it is fine at 50Hz, in HD it forces output to 60Hz - giving UK TV a nasty 10Hz judder. I haven't heard that they've fixed this yet... However I believe the new Media Center Extenders from DLink and Linksys DO solve this and are happy to output 1080i and 720p at 50Hz)


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Sneals2000 said:


> Yep - and (contrary to what I thought) I've checked the EICTA site and it only stipulates 720p (50 and 60Hz) and 1080i (50 and 60Hz) compatibility via HDMI/DVI/YPbPr inputs. I was under the impression it mandated 576i/p and 480i/p compatibility as well...
> 
> That said - if your TV is relatively modern then it may well support 576i via HDMI, it is the early HDMI TVs that didn't offer it.
> 
> 576i and 480i have too low a pixel rate for standard HDMI interconnects (a standard SD signal is below the minimum pixel clock rate) - to solve this they send every pixel twice to double the clock rate I believe.


I have personally bumped into the 576i problems (Panasonic display's, 2006 models I think), but is still present today.

A mate of mine bought a no-name LCD (22" I think) for use in kitchen and his a cheap Tesco's DVD player with HDMI won't display as it only outputs 576i, yet his neighbours Freeview box with "1080i" output is fine. I think he bought a slightly more expensive (£80) DVD player that has built in scaler and it works fine. This was only a month or two ago.

He was under the impression HDMI solved all these interconnect problems !!!


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## Hustiniano (Nov 4, 2002)

Sneals2000 said:


> I really miss the ease of Wishlists and Season Passes, but the picture quality of Sky HD (and BBC HD and C4 HD) mean that I couldn't go back.


I thought that Sky+ does season passes well - is that wrong?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It does, but they are nowhere near as well implemented. they won't pick up alternative showings and expire at the end of the series, for example.


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## tray (Jul 11, 2005)

I have a Pioneer 40" plasma & record everything in Tivo best quality and have no issues with picture quality vs off air digital or std def Sky.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Hustiniano said:


> I thought that Sky+ does season passes well - is that wrong?


Sort of.

Sky currently implement "Series Link". This requires Sky to send a separate series link data feed, which the box looks for and doesn't always find. It is also only implemented by some broadcasters and on some series.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

tray said:


> I have a Pioneer 40" plasma & record everything in Tivo best quality and have no issues with picture quality vs off air digital or std def Sky.


By "no issues" do you mean you can't see the difference? That's a little surprising.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Depends on how far you are from the screen...

As a rule of thumb, optimum viewing distance is around 3x screen width:
http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/Tv-viewing-distance.html


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Depends on how far you are from the screen...
> 
> As a rule of thumb, optimum viewing distance is around 3x screen width:
> http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/Tv-viewing-distance.html


Yep - though there are other issues.

Many people have replaced relative small (but bulky!) CRT displays (i.e. 28" 16:9 and 24" 4:3 ) with much larger but thinner (37", 40", 42") LCDs - but are putting them in the same position, and viewing from the same distance, rather than suddenly moving much further away - which in many cases is impossible.

Whilst the 3x rule of thumb is fine - there is another rule of thumb - which is that most people view from a similar distance called the Lechner distance - which is about 9 feet.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

hi sorry to ask a dumb question but can someone confirm that the TiVo outputs RGB scart (which is apparantly better than composite scart) please?

thanks.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Sneals2000 said:


> Sort of.
> 
> Sky currently implement "Series Link". This requires Sky to send a separate series link data feed, which the box looks for and doesn't always find. It is also only implemented by some broadcasters and on some series.


And if you've come from TiVo, you'll find Sky's implementation next to useless.

It's the same series link as with plain Sky boxes when setting reminders and channel changes. Before I had TiVo I found it was pretty useless as everything I wanted to record was never linked.

Other than that, you have no way of auto recording shows and will have to manually set them each week. It's utterly crap. Sadly Sky HD has such a vastly superior picture quality (even on SD due to HDMI output and upscaling).

Still Freesat may be an option instead but they have no PVR currently. However there may be an option there with a home-built media PC and a DVB card of some sort, coupled with some decent TiVo-like PVR software (Myth maybe?). Problem for me is I'd lose a handful of channels I like that are Sky sub only.



tray said:


> I have a Pioneer 40" plasma & record everything in Tivo best quality and have no issues with picture quality vs off air digital or std def Sky.


I'm about 10ft away from my 40" LCD and TiVo recordings are obviously poor by comparison to direct Sky. For live TV I have to use AUX all the time. I put up with it for recordings and it's less of an issue with animation shows.



big_dirk said:


> hi sorry to ask a dumb question but can someone confirm that the TiVo outputs RGB scart (which is apparantly better than composite scart) please?


It does indeed, under the SCART settings. Just needs to be set to 'PAL + RGB' which sends both composite and RGB (SCART cables carry both on different pins).

Make sure your feed into TiVo is also RGB though (e.g. set Sky, Freeview or whatever to RGB out), and you need to hook the TiVo output to the RGB SCART input on your TV (usually only one socket is RGB).


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

cheers deadkenny.

I know this is another dumb one but I dont know which of my 2 scarts are RGB, I've looked in the user manual and it doesnt say, here is the back of my TV. 

http://www.home-entertainment.toshiba.co.uk/consumer/products.nsf/files/32C3030D/$file/connections.jpg


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

on most TV's scart 1 is the RGB enabled input however with some more modern TV's it is possible that they are all RGB


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Just checked Toshiba website and scart 1 is rgb
http://www.home-entertainment.toshi...es/lcdplasma-regzac3030-32C3030D?opendocument


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

thanks very much, completely missed that in the list!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

DeadKenny said:


> And if you've come from TiVo, you'll find Sky's implementation next to useless.


Sky''s series links are not as good as season passes but I think you're being way too harsh. For most shows on most channels they work fine.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Sky''s series links are not as good as season passes but I think you're being way too harsh. For most shows on most channels they work fine.


Well I hope they've improved since I last tried it, as I found the vast majority of shows I wanted to series link it had no links for, especially on UKTV & Paramount channels. The terrestrial and Sky One channels seemed to work though. I believe it also can't cope with linking across channels, whereas season passes on TiVo does (e.g. if its better scheduling-wise to record off a +1 channel etc. Though admitted that Sky+ has twin tuners which maybe does away for conflict issues like that).


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## scoobs77 (Apr 14, 2009)

I got the  32xv505dbnot so long ago and that definetely has 2 scarts, so i can imagine the 40 inch version will do as well.


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## B33K34 (Feb 9, 2003)

Hustiniano said:


> But having read some of the stuff on this thread, I am now a bit worried that I will pay £800 on a shiny new LCD,
> 
> Is it the general experience of the forum that TIVO and 40" LCD TVs are not happy bed partners? I do have a new hard drive I am about to install that has mode0 on it....
> 
> What is other people's experience here....


I switched from a 32" Sony CRT to a 40" Pioneer Plasma 3 months ago. At my viewing distance I found Tivo to still be very watchable with mode 0 enabled. However, i have now switched to a Humax Foxsat HDR and it is very noticably better (and HD of course looks supurb).

The first thing I'd advise is looking at Panasonic Plasma sets instead of the LCD - I looked at a lot of sets before buying mine over a good few years and did some proper side by side comparisons on properly set up screens (I work in an environment where there are a lot about) and concluded that plasma's are far more forgiving of standard definition signals and off-axis viewing. Modern LCDs look great with HD content when viewed straight on but despite wide claimed viewing angles move off axis and you'll lose all the black depth.


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## B33K34 (Feb 9, 2003)

Sneals2000 said:


> Yep - and (contrary to what I thought) I've checked the EICTA site and it only stipulates 720p (50 and 60Hz) and 1080i (50 and 60Hz) compatibility via HDMI/DVI/YPbPr inputs. I was under the impression it mandated 576i/p and 480i/p compatibility as well...
> 
> That said - if your TV is relatively modern then it may well support 576i via HDMI, it is the early HDMI TVs that didn't offer it.


My Pioneer 4280 doesn't and they were still on sale until late last yeaer - I've tryed to get the screen to scale SD content over HDMI from my Humax Foxsat without success (I have to let the Foxsat bring it up to 1080i)


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