# Damages Season 3



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Starts tomorrow! (1/25/10)

With Martin Short as an evil lawyer...

For some reason, this one almost slipped by me. Fortunately, there was an article in the paper this morning about Martin Short playing an evil lawyer.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

Wow. Thanks for the heads up. Don't know how Damages disappeared from my SPs.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Starts tomorrow! (1/25/10)
> 
> With Martin Short as an evil lawyer...
> 
> For some reason, this one almost slipped by me. Fortunately, there was an article in the paper this morning about Martin Short playing an evil lawyer.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Lily Tomlin and Keith Carradine will guest star this season.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Lily Tomlin and Martin Short. Have either of them ever done drama?


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## StacieH (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm hoping it will be on Hulu. We just gave up Directv, so this will be my only option until the season comes out in DVD. I just watched the latest "White Collar." on Hulu.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sirius Black said:


> Lily Tomlin and Martin Short. Have either of them ever done drama?


Lily Tomlin is quite a respected actor...she's been in a few Robert Altman movies, and I think was nominated for an Oscar or two.

Martin Short, not so much, but Ted Danson wasn't exactly renowned for his dramatic chops before he did Damages. I suspect they wouldn't have hired Short if he couldn't handle it, and I suspect they didn't just take his word for it.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Just this morning finished up with Season 2....WOW...talk about misdirect....this show is great. I inhaled Seasons 1 & 2 in reruns this fall/winter and I am READY for Season 3!!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

balboa dave said:


>


BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Carry on. 

Greg


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

I hope they'll explain Ellen's sudden and bizarre change of heart. She should have destroyed Patty.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I completely forgot about this. My TiVo is relatively new so I don't have a Damages SP yet. Hope I remember.


Edited to add: I just scheduled a Damages SP online. First time I did that.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Starts tomorrow! (1/25/10)
> 
> With Martin Short as an evil lawyer...
> 
> For some reason, this one almost slipped by me. Fortunately, there was an article in the paper this morning about Martin Short playing an evil lawyer.


Damages has received a lot of postive press the last few days. For a show I heard little about prior to the last few months, it has critical acclaim. Why is it so underrated?

we just finished watching season 1 this weekend, and season 2 is already on its way via netflix. great show all around...acting, story telling, etc. we'll record a few season 3 episodes while we finish up season 2, and then dive into season 3 in a few weeks.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

finally caught up in season 3 and the 2/15 airing.

i am wondering who patti was talking/yelling to on the phone at the end?


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

markymark_ctown said:


> finally caught up in season 3 and the 2/15 airing.
> 
> i am wondering who patti was talking/yelling to on the phone at the end?


Me too...

I wonder, if she is going to blow her top when she find out that Jill is pregnant...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I think this season has really sucked so far. Compared to S1 & S2, this has been a real letdown. Very little suspense compared to the previous two seasons. I guess the bar was set so high, this was bound to happen. But I've been severely disappointed.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

I'm still enjoying it, but still a let down compared to the earlier seasons. Too much time spent with the Tobins; very little with Patty and Ellen. The storyline with Ellen's sister seems forced; like the writers don't know what to do with Ellen.


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

I think that this season 3 is a lot better than season 2, but season 1 still is the best.

Glenn Close isn't emphasized sufficiently this season, and they're not playing her wicked enough.

This week's last act - especially with Martin Short's character's fixation on the TVs in the department store window - was downright creepy, almost Twin Peaks-like, with hauntingly beautiful yet disconcerting music, and ranks for me as one of the all-time best ten minutes I've ever seen on television.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Jeeters said:


> The storyline with Ellen's sister seems forced; like the writers don't know what to do with Ellen.


It seems forced now but I think we have to see how it plays out. The writers don't usually introduce something unless there is a payoff for it later.



Schmye Bubbula said:


> This week's last act - especially with Martin Short's character's fixation on the TVs in the department store window - was downright creepy, almost Twin Peaks-like, with hauntingly beautiful yet disconcerting music, and ranks for me as one of the all-time best ten minutes I've ever seen on television.


It's always interesting to see what people take away from a particular scene or storyline. Most people wouldn't think twice about that sequence but it obviously resonated with you. That happens to me a lot, especially since most of my friends are morons with no ability to understand the various layers that can come out in a scene just from an acting decision or a song choice.



Bierboy said:


> I think this season has really sucked so far. Compared to S1 & S2, this has been a real letdown. Very little suspense compared to the previous two seasons. I guess the bar was set so high, this was bound to happen. But I've been severely disappointed.


I agree about season one (don't think anything will be as good), but season two was terrible. I didn't like most of the story lines, or the way they wrapped up the lingering stuff from season one. The biggest disappointment for me was the resolution of the flash forward.

I'm finding S3 much more interesting and dynamic than two. The Tobin's are interesting, and I like that the case is effecting all the main characters. I also think the flash-forward is MUCH more well done than last season's. Tons of interesting components with a new twist each time. The only thing I don't get is the Ellen/Patty dynamic--it's way too friendly. I thought they'd go the route of Ellen being Patty's first real adversary, but so far they're just hanging out.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm also really enjoying season 3 so far. I loved season one but only liked season two, partly due to not really being too interested in the main case storyline. The new storyline for season 3 is pretty good and I love the new dynamic with Patty, Ellen and Tom. I truly hope this show makes it for another season at least.


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

For me the distinctive characteristic of season 2 two was *every* single character consistently lied to each other. Nobody was innocent, no redeeming qualities in anyone to anchor the story. The entire story was cut loose, with really no one to root for.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

interesting to see tom's investigation of the tobin money trail and how it may have led to his demise. 

fun to see ellen's head games with patty and the article. she learned from the best


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markymark_ctown said:


> interesting to see tom's investigation of the tobin money trail and how it may have led to his demise.


Is it a spoiler to talk about future developments that have already been shown?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I had four episodes backed up and watched three of them over the last couple of days. I like Damages but Patty Hewes is such a distasteful, total a-hole of a human being that it makes it difficult for me to be a fan of the show. She's has no redeeming qualities that make me want to like her character. Vic Mackey, Al Swearengin and Omar were all murderous thugs but they had sympathetic human sides that drew me into the character. Patty is still just selfish, vindictive, manipulative and cruel three seasons into the show.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Um.... She loves the dog?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, are we _supposed _to like her?

I think a lot of the point of the show is that she's reprehensible..and the person we ARE supposed to like, Ellen, is in increasing danger of _becoming _Patty.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, are we _supposed _to like her?
> 
> I think a lot of the point of the show is that she's reprehensible..and the person we ARE supposed to like, Ellen, is in increasing danger of _becoming _Patty.


You may not like her but wouldn't you hire her?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> You may not like her but wouldn't you hire her?


Patty? As my lawyer? Absolutely, if I could afford her, which of course I never could!


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Seems Patty noticed the guy in Antigua was a setup from the get go...I wonder how that angle is going to play out...

I wonder, what the brother will do now that he knows it is his sister who killed Danielle???

Even, if they received the money, they would have to move to another country to actually spend it.


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

Actually, I find Patty a BIT more likeable this season than in previous seasons.

I do think (besides having her own motivations), she does want to get the money back from the Tobins, for those who scr*wed over.

Contrast that with Ellen's current boss who said he doesn't care and he just wants someone...anyone, to go to jail, simply to save his job. Ellen "got that" and brought the info to Patty instead.

I think they could possibly be a good duo on 'both sides of the fence'.

Who's that new character, though, that they 'introduced' in the coming attractions? I didn't recognize her.

I think this season is better, all around, than last season....better acted, more suspense, more believable, and it still always goes by way too fast when I watch it...I always want to hurry up and see what happens next.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm finally caught up. A number of pieces are starting to come together. I still hate Patty's guts but the other character portrayals are so good, I keep on watching. Then they throw in Arthur Frobisher to kill the momentum.

They need to stop portraying the lead detective in "future-vision". Cadaverous. He looks half dead in "normal-vision".


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Apparently this show is in DEEP trouble as far as renewal goes. According to TVbytheNumbers -- the most recent stats...

Damages (62 minutes)
- 0.924 million viewers
- 0.6/1 HH
- 0.2/1 A18-49


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

markymark_ctown said:


> interesting to see tom's investigation of the tobin money trail and how it may have led to his demise.
> 
> fun to see ellen's head games with patty and the article. she learned from the best


I love the interaction that Ellen is having - and Patty is having - going back and forth - trying to get to each other!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

What's with bringing back Frobisher? I could've sworn he died.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> What's with bringing back Frobisher? I could've sworn he died.


He was shot at the end of Season 1, but he got better and was around throughout Season 2, although in a surprisingly inconsequential role.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Apparently this show is in DEEP trouble as far as renewal goes. According to TVbytheNumbers -- the most recent stats...
> 
> Damages (62 minutes)
> - 0.924 million viewers
> ...


Wow-that is....NOT good.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Ellen was dirty. I loved her look of surprise when she knew Patty didn't know the truth. 

I wonder, if the Michael g/f will take the bait???

I knew, it was leading back to the attorney. I guess, we are to believe, he knocked off Tom since his fingerprints were on Ellen's bag.

The son setting up the murder...whoa...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

FireMen2003 said:


> Ellen was dirty. I loved her look of surprise when she knew Patty didn't know the truth.
> 
> I wonder, if the Michael g/f will take the bait???
> 
> ...


This is NOT an episode thread and you revealing spoilers. :down:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

In fairness to FireMen, people have been doing that the whole thread...


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In fairness to FireMen, people have been doing that the whole thread...


You could say that about looting too, doesn't make it right.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

balboa dave said:


> You could say that about looting too, doesn't make it right.


Not saying it is. It just isn't really fair to pick on one person for doing what everybody else has been doing in this thread for a month now.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not saying it is. It just isn't really fair to pick on one person for doing what everybody else has been doing in this thread for a month now.


That's a good argument for closing this thread.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I always expect spoilers on any of these TV show threads. We are discussing the current episode, how could there not be! That being said...

Why doesn't Michaels girlfriend just come completely clean and make a pre-emptive strike towards Patty?


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> This is NOT an episode thread and you revealing spoilers. :down:


Give me a damn break...

I did the same thing last week, I guess you didn't notice that either 

I guess, I assumed wrongly this was like the Men of A Certain Age topic for the whole season...


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Oh God not this nonsense again.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Hell, Rob's initial post of this thread has a spoiler in it if we want to get all ridiculously ridiculous about it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Oh sure, blame Rob! Why not, everybody else does!


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I thought this was a spoiler thread. You know. above the antics of juvenile spoiler cops. I've participated in similar threads for other shows. Not enough traffic for a weekly thread. So we just chat in a normal thread. People with brains who want to avoid spoilers don't read until they decide. Hmmm, imagine that.

Anyway, this last episode was a bit boring. Not much movement either way, IMO.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

sorry, this is clearly a discussion about Damages: Season Three... what the hell else would someone expect to see in this thread?? Believe me I don't like spoilers popping up unexpectedly but use common sense people. 

Anyway, this season blows season two out of the water... I thought almost everything about last season was a let down but everything this season is better, including the current-day storyline and especially the flash forward storyline. Every episode peels back another layer of the big picture, and there are plenty of unexpected turns--which is what a serialized "suspense" type show should be. 

I was kind of ambivilant about Tom Shayes but I think making him a victim of the Tobin fraud and making the big mystery about his death was a great move. It kind of sucks knowing the outcome but at the same time, that's what makes it so interesting--you KNOW they're not gonna ***** out like they did with Ellen's season long gun shot last year (still mad). 

Only four episodes left and it doesn't feel like it's had any real slow or boring spots, so that's good. Those ratings are pretty horrible though--less than a million viewers? I'd be ok with this being the last season because it's getting harder to believe that people would even talk to Patty, let alone spend an entire season working with her.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Couldn't disagree more. This season has dragged, the acting has been subpar (including Martin Short and Glenn Close), and I, frankly, am glad this is its last season. It's been a HUGE letdown from S1 and S2.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Couldn't disagree more. This season has dragged, the acting has been subpar (including Martin Short and Glenn Close), and I, frankly, am glad this is its last season. It's been a HUGE letdown from S1 and S2.


I agree 100%!


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm really loving this season, including Martin Short.

I'm wondering what Frobisher has to do with anything. It was rather weird having him just thrust back into the story.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I think Martin Short has been great and Rose Byrne has gotten very good. I'm putting this season ahead of season two and just below season one, so far.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I think this season has been much more believable than the previous seasons. There haven't been ridiculous plot swings and redirects every other episode. I think Lily Tomlin and Martin Short have done great jobs. How the heck can anybody think Glenn Close's acting has been subpar?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This I WILL say....just watched this week's ep, and it was head and shoulders better than the last four or five.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

this week's episode had a surprise ending (for me anyway). not the way i expected tom to go. 

ellen's sister...what a mess. and the DA's harsh approach is going to push ellen closer to Patty.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

If he committed suicide, how does his body end up in the dumpster though?

Ellen storyline, I guess so. Her sister is stupid.

The whole storyline with Tobin's oldest daughter is crazy to me. Why would she help them? 

I'm still wondering what flight attendent daughter was told by her mother and father about the money.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Ellen is adopted?

Winstone is a con artist? Seems like he isn't a real attorney...whoa...

The charity is the way they are smuggling the money in and out of the country and into the Tobins pocket?

I wonder, how it is going to wrap up in 2 episodes..


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I wonder if the adoption and dream sequences are foder for a future season versus having anything to do with this season.


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## JakeyB (Apr 24, 2003)

FireMen2003 said:


> Ellen is adopted?
> 
> Winstone is a con artist? Seems like he isn't a real attorney...whoa...
> 
> ...


I believe there are 3 left. 2 + finale, I don't know why previews state it that way instead of just saying '3 episodes remain'.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

JakeyB said:


> I believe there are 3 left. 2 + finale, I don't know why previews state it that way instead of just saying '3 episodes remain'.


Lost keeps doing this also. 10 episodes left UNTIL the series finale. So stupid.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

FireMen2003 said:


> Ellen is adopted?


Weren't you paying attention? Her sister was just screwing with her when she said that.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Weren't you paying attention? Her sister was just screwing with her when she said that.


Like my sisters... 

I like how that pissed Ellen off even more and pretty much made her tell her to go to hell...


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Awsome episode in a fantastic serious. I hope it gets renewed. When will we find out?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> Awsome episode in a fantastic serious. I hope it gets renewed. When will we find out?


Very little chance, from what I've heard. Ratings are abysmal and I think this season pales in comparison to the first two.


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

Too bad. Love the show, the characters, the filming and everything about it.
I think this season is better than Season 2, but not as good as Season 1.

Martin Short and Lily Tomlin are both great. Bringing back Frobisher still is lost on me....but you never know with this show!

If it's not brought back for a 4th season though, we'll never find out.

Will miss watching Glenn Close. She is such a great actress.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

So what is it now, 2 more episodes left in the season? Shaping up to be an interesting end to Season 3. Wonder if Ellen will confront her mother?


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just watched this weeks.... still trying to figure out WHY they brought back Frobisher. Very confused on that one.

So - is next weeks show the FINALE ?? So much to wrap up still.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Maybe Ted Danson had an extension to his contract, 'cause I don't get it either.

Two episodes left. 

Is anyone else picking up the 3 minute replay? I kinda like it.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

angbear1985 said:


> Just watched this weeks.... still trying to figure out WHY they brought back Frobisher. Very confused on that one.
> 
> So - is next weeks show the FINALE ?? So much to wrap up still.


Based on the last episode, seems he's on the verge of admitting to the actor that he once ordered people killed. That fact will probably make it's way to the authorities, and next thing we know, I bet next season Ellen is either prosecuting him or convinced into defending him in court.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Patty is trusting Ellen again??

The Tobin's are the biggest idiots. You have everyone watching you and you kill not 1 but 2 people who are connected to the case? Real smart.

I wonder, the mom's end game for not telling that Tessa was his daughter? 

I was hoping, they would give more information about the lawyer and his past...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

FireMen2003 said:


> I wonder, the mom's end game for not telling that Tessa was his daughter?


Otherwise, he might not have gone through with killing her.

And having killed her, it makes it more fun for us when he finds out!


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

FireMen2003 said:


> Patty is trusting Ellen again??
> 
> The Tobin's are the biggest idiots. You have everyone watching you and you kill not 1 but 2 people who are connected to the case? Real smart.
> 
> ...





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Otherwise, he might not have gone through with killing her.
> 
> And having killed her, it makes it more fun for us when he finds out!


True - he has to find out that she was his daughter. 
And - who will they get to get the $$ now for them? Tessa had turned on them, so they wouldn't have gotten the $$ anyway.

Mom must be very money hungry, too - for her to not tell him the truth.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

> Otherwise, he might not have gone through with killing her.
> 
> And having killed her, it makes it more fun for us when he finds out!


That is true. I"m surprised, he couldn't figure out the math himself.

The charity should have a big enough reserve until they can get a new courier.

I wonder what the dad associate is going to say when he find out about the murder..


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

FireMen2003 said:


> I wonder what the dad associate is going to say when he find out about the murder..


I am guessing Uncle Junior will not be happy


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

By the way, all hope is not lost for a Season 4...

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/04/07/damages-update-directv/


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

FireMen2003 said:


> Patty is trusting Ellen again??


really? the last i recall of those two together had patty chastising ellen and kicking her out of the her apartment. did i miss something?


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

markymark_ctown said:


> really? the last i recall of those two together had patty chastising ellen and kicking her out of the her apartment. did i miss something?


Her guidance on the new lawyer, she had a flashback to it.

Its something else too but you're going have to wait till I go home because I'm drawing a blank .


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

markymark_ctown said:


> really? the last i recall of those two together had patty chastising ellen and kicking her out of the her apartment. did i miss something?


Yeah, I don't see any trusting going on. Patty had that daydreaming episode of what Ellen had said about the new lawyer from Crane, Poole, & Schmidt. Ellen said she'd be a good fit and I guess Patty thought that was another one of Ellen's supposed sabotage attempts.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This season is so much better and more believable than the previous seasons. Then they go and bring back Arthur Frobishzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Sorry, he puts me to sleep. Why?

As has been stated previously, the Tobins are morons.

Not a good year for the Marchetti family.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Speaking of Marchettis, does anybody besides the characters on this show actually pronounce Danielle "DAN-yuhl" instead of "Dan-YELL"?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Patty told the new girl to spend the rest of the afternoon cleaning out her space. How much crap could she have?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> By the way, all hope is not lost for a Season 4...
> 
> http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/04/07/damages-update-directv/


That article is anything BUT encouraging IMO...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> That article is anything BUT encouraging IMO...


Considering the Conventional Wisdom before that was that the show is dead in the water, I'd say that the fact there is now a slight possibility for a future is encouraging...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Considering the Conventional Wisdom before that was that the show is dead in the water, I'd say that the fact there is now a slight possibility for a future is encouraging...


I certainly hope so. The last several episodes have really raised the bar in my eyes. I was down on this season early on, but it's really hitting the mark now. I'll be seriously disappointed if it doesn't get renewed.


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## Sabich (Aug 3, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Speaking of Marchettis, does anybody besides the characters on this show actually pronounce Danielle "DAN-yuhl" instead of "Dan-YELL"?


Everyone also seems to have a problem pronouncing "Antigua" correctly.
It's "An-TEE-ga," not "An-TEE-gwa"
I guess the "u" is throwing them off.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sabich said:


> Everyone also seems to have a problem pronouncing "Antigua" correctly.
> It's "An-TEE-ga," not "An-TEE-gwa"
> I guess the "u" is throwing them off.


Although that's more understandable, since most people (mis)pronounce it that way...I hear An-TEE-gwa a lot more often than An-TEE-ga. But this is the first time in my 50 years that I've heard Danielle pronounced Daniel. And I think everybody on this show does it!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It's that weird New Yawk accent.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I never noticed anyone saying anything but "Dan-yell"... might have to pay attention next time. I think this season is FAR better than season 2, which I didn't care about on any level, and which I think had a terrible resolution. This season got back to focusing on the characters as much as the case, and I like that every one of them is slowly going down the road we see hinted at it in the future--they did a great job with the story layout this time around. 

I think the Tobin's a good storyline also because it's just one awful decision after another and a million twists thrown in. The way each of their lives has unraveled since thanksgiving is fun to watch, and they topped it by not only revealing that Tessa was Joe's daughter, but by having his own mother not tell him because she wanted the girl dead so they could protect their money... so messed up. Then again, it's not like she duped a totally innocent guy--she still thought he was killing his sister...

As for Frobisher, the only thing I can think of at this point is that he's gonna confess to Terry about having people killed, and Terry is gonna go to the cops, which will lead to Frobisher finally pay for what happened to David...I think it's a "closure" type storyline, since that was never really resolved. I think maybe the writers needed to fill in some time and thought bringing back a familiar character who people like to watch was a good idea--that's the only reason I can behind the volume of screen time he's gotten. 

I think it's possible the show might come back one DirectTV but I'm not sure if I want it to. All the stuff they're setting up story-wise seems like it would make a great bookend to where the characters started in season one. There will be no more reason for Ellen and Patty to be in each other's lives (that dynamic is getting old anyway), and no more Tom sort of walking the line in between. With Ellen apparently out of a job, Tom dead, and Patty possibly on the hook for being involved, it seems like their story could end. 

I'd rather have that then see it come back with a sub-par plot hat doesn't live up to what we've seen so far.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> ...Then again, it's not like she duped a totally innocent guy--she still thought he was killing his sister.......


Well, technically, his HALF-sister.

I agree with you; I think ending the series with this season could be appropriate the way the storylines are progressing.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Does anyone else have a problem with the character inconsistency of Joe Tobin? In the beginning he went out of his way to be moral and do the right thing and now he's a mass murderer. And we can't even blame it on alcohol.

Also I am unclear (or can't remember) who really killed David and why. Wasn't Uncle Pete in the apartment during the time of the murder?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I laughed when Patty told Ellen "I want you out of my life". Boy that Patty sure has some nerve!!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Family said:


> Also I am unclear (or can't remember) who really killed David and why. Wasn't Uncle Pete in the apartment during the time of the murder?


It was the crooked detective ("Messer") who killed David. He worked as a "security consultant" or something like that in his off hours and was hired by Frobisher. I forget why he was in Ellen's aparment, but I think David walked in on him.

Uncle Pete hired a guy to try and kill Ellen when she was temporarily staying in Patty's apartment.


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## TeighVaux (May 31, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> It was the crooked detective ("Messer") who killed David. He worked as a "security consultant" or something like that in his off hours and was hired by Frobisher. I forget why he was in Ellen's aparment, but I think David walked in on him.
> 
> Uncle Pete hired a guy to try and kill Ellen when she was temporarily staying in Patty's apartment.


I think he was in their apartment to go find that confessional tape that Gregory Melina made. Yes, as I recall, David walked in on him (although a lot of people seemed to have access to that apartment).


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## TeighVaux (May 31, 2005)

markymark_ctown said:


> really? the last i recall of those two together had patty chastising ellen and kicking her out of the her apartment. did i miss something?


Patty is just pretending to trust Ellen just as at times, Ellen pretended to trust Patty.


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

TeighVaux said:


> Patty is just pretending to trust Ellen just as at times, Ellen pretended to trust Patty.


Yeah, I *earlier noted* that in season 2, all the characters did was lie to each other. Looks like this season is shaping up the same way. Has _Damages_ ever actually had a protagonist?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Schmye Bubbula said:


> Yeah, I *earlier noted* that in season 2, all the characters did was lie to each other. Looks like this season is shaping up the same way. Has _Damages_ ever actually had a protagonist?


There are always protagonists. It's just that the protagonists aren't much in the way of heroes.


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There are always protagonists. It's just that the protagonists aren't much in the way of heroes.


Then doesn't no heroes _ipso facto _make it *no *protagonists whatsoever? "All antagonists, all the time" could be _Damages' _tagline, its distinguishing characteristic. I'm trying to think of another series that was all-antagonist. _The Sopranos?_


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Schmye Bubbula said:


> Then doesn't no heroes _ipso facto _make it *no *protagonists whatsoever? "All antagonists, all the time" could be _Damages' _tagline, its distinguishing characteristic. I'm trying to think of another series that was all-antagonist. _The Sopranos?_


Sons Of Anarchy?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Schmye Bubbula said:


> Then doesn't no heroes _ipso facto _make it *no *protagonists whatsoever? "All antagonists, all the time" could be _Damages' _tagline, its distinguishing characteristic. I'm trying to think of another series that was all-antagonist. _The Sopranos?_


"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Protagonist/antagonist and hero/villain are two entirely different things.


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
> 
> Protagonist/antagonist and hero/villain are two entirely different things.


I stand *corrected*: "the principal character in a work of fiction."
(So the _antagonist _could be a good guy in a work in which the protagonist is a bad guy.)


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

Whoa. 

:up::up::up:

Joe Tobin should win idiot of the year....

Tom is a smart man....

Though, I wouldn't have turned all the money over...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Wow...just watched the latest ep. This season has REALLY picked it up the past few weeks. They seem to be wrapping up storylines from each season...David's death from S1, Frobisher from S2 and this season. Really hope this gets another season...


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I realize everyone knows this, but wow... there is not one character who isn't a total fraud piece of crap. I was thinking the Tobins lawyer might have been someone sad and pityful, but now he turns out to be another huge con.


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

Maybe the significance of the horse dreams is that the real reason for the death of Patty's daughter is that Patty accidently trampled her while horseback riding.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

looking forward to the finale this coming week tro see how this wraps up...anyone care to speculate?


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## TeighVaux (May 31, 2005)

In the scene where Tom Shays is looking online for used Honda's, was he looking for a used Honda because he is broke? Or was he looking for a cheap car to use specifically to attempt to later run into Patty (which we have seen from the flash aheads)?

I was also unclear on why, the night his wife told him not to come home, that he would sleep on the hard floor with only his jacket for a pillow in his empty new apartment? He just received the big bag of cash so he could have rented a hotel room, couldn't he?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

TeighVaux said:


> In the scene where Tom Shays is looking online for used Honda's, was he looking for a used Honda because he is broke? Or was he looking for a cheap car to use specifically to attempt to later run into Patty (which we have seen from the flash aheads)?


I assumed the latter. When he was looking at the cars, it immediately occurred to me that he's going to attempt a suicide by crashing it - wanting to make it look like an accident, since life insurance usually doesn't cover suicides. And that him hitting Patty was just going to turn out to be some bizarre accidental coincidence. But then when he received the money, him committing suicide no longer makes sense. I'm now assuming that the homeless guy has something to do with his death, since it was odd the writers had him show up in the empty apartment like that.



> I was also unclear on why, the night his wife told him not to come home, that he would sleep on the hard floor with only his jacket for a pillow in his empty new apartment? He just received the big bag of cash so he could have rented a hotel room, couldn't he?


Good point; I hadn't thought of that.


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## TeighVaux (May 31, 2005)

Is it just me or is there some symbolism between the dashboard Statue of Liberty (shown over and over as part of the flash ahead crash) and the Statue of Liberty book end that was used to kill David in Season one (which was shown over and over all Season one)?


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Wow...just watched the latest ep. This season has REALLY picked it up the past few weeks. They seem to be wrapping up storylines from each season...David's death from S1, Frobisher from S2 and this season. Really hope this gets another season...


I feel like it's wrapping up stuff BECAUSE it's the last season... And I'm actually ok with it. I think this season is the perfect time to bow out because the storyline affected every character in big ways--i think it's a good time to leave it. I was wondering what the point was of all the Frobisher stuff this season and now it's clear that it was done to bring closure to the fact that he never got in trouble for killing David. Tom being dead, Frobisher finally going to prison, and Ellen and Patty (presumably) done with each other means the show could end and it would make sense.

Plus it's getting harder to understand why Ellen continues to be involved with patty, especially after she admitting to trying to kill her... I like the idea of season one being Ellen the novice and patty the psychotic boss, then season two ellen is working with the feds to bring down patty, and season three they're more equal, but both still playing each other. That's a good arc.



TeighVaux said:


> Is it just me or is there some symbolism between the dashboard Statue of Liberty (shown over and over as part of the flash ahead crash) and the Statue of Liberty book end that was used to kill David in Season one (which was shown over and over all Season one)?


No, that's the first thing I thought of when the showed it in the premiere. That and every time I hear a "ding!" I think of Ellen in that damn elevator.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> That and every time I hear a "ding!" I think of Ellen in that damn elevator


you must not watch "Breaking Bad"

dingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingding


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

TeighVaux said:


> I was also unclear on why, the night his wife told him not to come home, that he would sleep on the hard floor with only his jacket for a pillow in his empty new apartment? He just received the big bag of cash so he could have rented a hotel room, couldn't he?


Tom lost his savings but he's not regular people broke. He's rich people broke. There's no reason he couldn't stay in a hotel until he got some furniture. I don't get the whole wife kicking him out of the house part either. I'd like to see one tv guy say "Me get out? No, you get out! And I'm keeping the kids!"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Tom lost his savings but he's not regular people broke. He's rich people broke. There's no reason he couldn't stay in a hotel until he got some furniture. I don't get the whole wife kicking him out of the house part either. I'd like to see one tv guy say "Me get out? No, you get out! And I'm keeping the kids!"


The wife has been pretty unreasonable all along. She doesn't want to sell anything, or downgrade her life in any way. It's too bad Tom died before he had a chance to realize how much better off he'd be without her.


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## TeighVaux (May 31, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The wife has been pretty unreasonable all along. She doesn't want to sell anything, or downgrade her life in any way. It's too bad Tom died before he had a chance to realize how much better off he'd be without her.


I'm with you and the previous poster. Who is she to kick him out of the house? It's not like he posed a threat to either her of the children. I was routing for him to just go walk in the door.

She has been unreasonable all along, especially since he is supporting her parents too.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't get the whole wife kicking him out of the house part either.


Whether she genuinely believes that because Tom argues with her he's a danger to the kids is unclear. I've met women who do believe things like that, but it's not really about the kids, it's about keeping their husbands under their thumb.

She married for money, she's preparing to divorce him for lack of money. Preemptively removing the husband is SOP in divorce actions. What's not to get?


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

No finale discussion yet? I thought I'd be behind...OBVIOUS SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN"T WATCHED:








I liked the way it wrapped up... I think they did a great job an building the flash-forwards up in a certain way then turning them around--Michael being the one who hit Patty, Mrs. Tobin being the Bridge Jumper, Joe killing Tom in his own house, Patty's "I told you not to go through with it!" having nothing to do with Tom's death (nice fake-out there). 

The only thing I don't understand is Ellen visiting Tom's wife and asking "do they know about us"? That scene makes no sense for several reasons. That combined with Ellen telling the detective that she and Tom were gonna start a law firm together made it seem like there would be some big stuff between Ellen and Tom, but they were working with Patty and everything was known. 

With Joe, I love that the writer's save all that information for one scene. He's a great example of someone who starts off good and wanting to do right to spiraling into one of the most dispicable people on the show. Not only did he get arrested for major fraud, but he found out he had his own daughter executed, AND his mother killed herself hours earlier. ******. 

I also don't fully understand the Patty/Decker thing. Did she imagine him in the present day? I don't get it. 

If that is the last episode of the series, I'd say it's a solid ending. They tied up most of the loose ends from seasons one and two, which I thought was great, and the end seemed like a nice closing place. This case touched all of them in irreparable ways, I don't see what they can do that would be more interesting.


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## sfenton (Feb 8, 2004)

There must be LSD in the NYC water supply. Everybody is hallucinating.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Great finale to a great season. If this is ends up being the series finale (I hope not) then it was even better in that regard. It tied up loose threads from both season one and season two.

Not sure about the Julian Decker character. Did he just remind her of someone in her past or did he never exist in the present? I guess it's left up in the air for us to converse about!


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## DavidJL (Feb 21, 2006)

Schmye Bubbula said:


> Then doesn't no heroes _ipso facto _make it *no *protagonists whatsoever? "All antagonists, all the time" could be _Damages' _tagline, its distinguishing characteristic. I'm trying to think of another series that was all-antagonist. _The Sopranos?_


Though I haven't watched it much since season one, Madmen seemed to fall into this category. It was hard to really root for any of the characters.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

The show was all over the map and I don't understand why it had to travel down so many roads. What was the purpose doing the sister on drugs/Ellen is adopted subplot with three episodes left when it went nowhere? And the son hitting Patty seemed a little coincidental... he's in the area to steal Tom's car and then he just happens to spot Patty (and recognize his mother from a distance) to plow into her. And of course the above mentioned Tom/Ellen opening a law firm when there was never a hint at it.

There were so many holes in this story... perhaps that was the real symbolism behind the holes in the wall.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Family said:


> The show was all over the map and I don't understand why it had to travel down so many roads. What was the purpose doing the sister on drugs/Ellen is adopted subplot with three episodes left when it went nowhere? And the son hitting Patty seemed a little coincidental... he's in the area to steal Tom's car and then he just happens to spot Patty (and recognize his mother from a distance) to plow into her. And of course the above mentioned Tom/Ellen opening a law firm when there was never a hint at it.
> 
> There were so many holes in this story... perhaps that was the real symbolism behind the holes in the wall.


I think the sister/adoption mom storyline was probably something that would come back full circle in future seasons and was just a lemming/flash of that future storyline.

The son hitting his Mom isn't so far fetched. He was right behind Ellen so he was clearly THERE. If he knew he Mom was heading home to him he may know the typical path she would drive and headed in that direction. Sure it was a tad extreme but not that crazy...

I am a little lost on the whole Ellen / Tom lawfirm wife thing. Maybe that was all said as a way to throw off his wife while they were going through with the whole case and didn't want to tip their hand. My only guess.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NatasNJ said:


> The son hitting his Mom isn't so far fetched. He was right behind Ellen so he was clearly THERE. If he knew he Mom was heading home to him he may know the typical path she would drive and headed in that direction. Sure it was a tad extreme but not that crazy...


Nah, it's pretty crazy. That always bugs me in TV shows and movies, when somebody is able to pull off the astonishing logistics of hitting a moving car from the side in another moving car.

The moment baby-mama blew off Patty, I knew it would not end well for baby-mama. Baby-mama knoweth not with whom she ****s. Shoulda stuck with ****ing the kid. 

And I agree...if the series has to end, this is a perfect place to do it. And if it goes on, now that they've wrapped up all the major ongoing storylines, maybe they can abandon the flashback structure that worked so well the first season, and not so well since.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Nah, it's pretty crazy. That always bugs me in TV shows and movies, when somebody is able to pull off the astonishing logistics of hitting a moving car from the side in another moving car.


Yeah, it would be one thing if he caught her from behind and forced her off the road into a lamp post or something but it's ludicrous to think that he'd be able to perfectly time a collision like that in the middle of an intersection.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TampaThunder said:


> Yeah, it would be one thing if he caught her from behind and forced her off the road into a lamp post or something but it's ludicrous to think that he'd be able to perfectly time a collision like that in the middle of an intersection.


Especially in Manhattan, where just sitting at an intersection waiting for her to drive by would be impossible.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I agree about the car thing. It actually would have made a ton more sense if they had him spot her, then drive up and hit her from behind. She could have flown into a telephone pole or a parked car and they would have ended up in the same exact position, and the impact would have been just as dramatic. Why they chose to do it they way they did, who knows. From a writing stand point, little things like that drive me nuts, especially when it's not even necessary. 

Maybe the producers will do some follow up interviews and explain what the Ellen/Tom thing was about, because they really dropped the ball there. Anyone can introduce a flash forward and make it mysterious but you have to actually pay it off, which I think they did with just about everything else. 

As for the stuff w/ Ellen's family, I think they were trying to get at why Ellen is so drawn to Patty--her family is so f'ed up and maybe she gets something she's missing out of that relationship. That would make more sense if Patty wasn't a borderline sociopath who not only used and manipulated her, but tried to have her killed. At least the explained why Patty is so drawn to Ellen--homegirl wasted her own daughter. While I knew it would happen I was disappointed that she got the last laugh on Jill--I was really hoping that FINALLY someone had gotten the one-up. Patty is cool and everything but sometimes it's fun to watch people like that get taken down a peg (ie, Frobisher).


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I did not like they handled Tom's death. He had enough strength to walk all the way home but not to the hospital?! And Joe actually killing someone like that (drunk or not) was also far-fetched. They should've left so it was the guy who stabbed him and leave it at that.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I have no problem with Joe killing Tom. He's been on a downward spiral all season, both mentally and morally.

It was kind of dumb of Tom not to seek help, however.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

gossamer88 said:


> I did not like they handled Tom's death. He had enough strength to walk all the way home but not to the hospital?! And Joe actually killing someone like that (drunk or not) was also far-fetched. They should've left so it was the guy who stabbed him and leave it at that.


I think he went home to make sure his family was safe, even at his own peril.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> , Patty's "I told you not to go through with it!" having nothing to do with Tom's death (nice fake-out there).
> 
> .


Maybe, I need to watch it again but I so put it together since Ellen checked her vm afterward .

Interesting wrap up.

I like how Ellen still got a jab at the ending...

Joe Tobin is an idiot. Amazing how the whole Tobin family is wiped out besides the daughter.

Nice wrapup of the season.


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## natehugg (Apr 2, 2010)

I love this programme.
Exciting!


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

FireMen2003 said:


> Maybe, I need to watch it again but I so put it together since Ellen checked her vm afterward .


When they showed that scene originally, I think they cut from someone attacking Tom, to Tom being dead, to Patty on the phone screaming that she "told them not to go through with it"--they made it look like she ordered a hit on Tom then called it off, but she was talking to Ellen--she told them not to go through with the deal with Winstone.

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that Joe took the time to drag Tom all the way back to brooklyn to dump his body in the dumpster outside of Lenny's building? Unless his plan was to frame Lenny for the murder, I don't see why he'd go through all the trouble.

I forgot to add the fact that he was responsible for the fraud in the first place to the list of things that Joe Tobin gets to think about in prison.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> When they showed that scene originally, I think they cut from someone attacking Tom, to Tom being dead, to Patty on the phone screaming that she "told them not to go through with it"--they made it look like she ordered a hit on Tom then called it off, but she was talking to Ellen--she told them not to go through with the deal with Winstone.
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that Joe took the time to drag Tom all the way back to brooklyn to dump his body in the dumpster outside of Lenny's building? Unless his plan was to frame Lenny for the murder, I don't see why he'd go through all the trouble.
> 
> I forgot to add the fact that he was responsible for the fraud in the first place to the list of things that Joe Tobin gets to think about in prison.


You are correct. Gotcha.

I'm assuming that he was going to try and pin it on Lenny or that was the easiest dumpster to get access too .

I didn't see the suicide by his mother coming at all.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

FireMen2003 said:


> Maybe, I need to watch it again but I so put it together since Ellen checked her vm afterward .
> 
> Interesting wrap up.
> 
> ...


The daughter will probably be in jail for her murder though. Right?

Sounds like another season is not going to happen.


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## JakeyB (Apr 24, 2003)

brermike said:


> I think he went home to make sure his family was safe, even at his own peril.


While possible. It would have been a lot easier and made a lot more sense to dial 911 and alert the police a) someone may be at his house and b) he had been stabbed many times. Tom's behavior and the big reveal of who had hit Patty really left me a little disappointed. It wasn't bad I guess, but just seemed like poor writing for what could be the series finale.


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## FireMen2003 (Apr 1, 2004)

NatasNJ said:


> The daughter will probably be in jail for her murder though. Right?
> 
> Sounds like another season is not going to happen.


The mother sorta implied that the brother was behind all the murders to keep the money in the family.

Though, Patty suspect that the sister is the one who killed her but who knows?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't get Tom. I'm calling 911 or hightailing it to the hospital if I get stabbed in the gut a couple of times. His toilet bowl must contain a small lake if he can get drowned in it with the seat down.

The baby mama was really dumb but I have a hard time believing that a judge would actually put a pregnant woman in jail for having sex with minor, especially as close to 18 as the son was.

Did Lost's MIB take a trip to New York? Frobisher and Patty were seeing dead people?


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I was disappointed that so much didn't make sense in the finale. It all came together in the most contrived ways. The thing with Michael driving the car was completely ridiculous, as everybody else has mentioned. I was also bothered by what happened to Tom. Zedeck's guy finding Tom in Winstone's apartment block seemed quite convenient, then Winstone comes in just in time to stop that fight, finally followed by Joe happening to be in Tom's house. 

Frobisher coming back to the show was just unsatisfying. It's like I simply didn't care about what happened to that character anymore.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The Tobins were broke for what, a month at most, and turned into a bunch of murdering sociopaths? Maybe that's why God never let me win the big lottery.

If I know that you had someone murdered and I then murdered the murderer, unless I'm 78 years old or more, I'm not turning us both in.

Even though I have problems with some of the season's major plot points, I still think this was the best season so far. The overall story hung together much better. Many fewer ridiculous 180 degree plot turns.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

LOVED seeing Frobisher crying and begging for his life.

Don't remember if we ever saw anyone acknowleding Decker in any other scenes, so maybe he was a figment of Patty's imagination.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Don't remember if we ever saw anyone acknowleding Decker in any other scenes, so maybe he was a figment of Patty's imagination.


I don't think there was ever anybody else there...


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

All this money floating around and being laundered and stashed--hard to believe that Joe got them into the mess by promising big returns, and they were just trying to get out. Fix it by putting the cash in their pockets?


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