# DirecTV: Should I stay or should I go? Argh!



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It appears I'm on the verge of a big change. For the last few days I guess it's sunk in that I ordered a Series 3 since I could transfer DirecTV DVR lifetime service to it, and now I'm thinking about revamping my whole tv/internet/phone services.

I put together a full comparison of Comcast packages/channels vs. DirecTV packages/channels and while there's certainly more differences than I expected, there's no show-stopper.


On the plus side, Comcast has:

Additional HD:
Cinemax HD
INHD
MTV HD
STARZ! HD
WPIX-DT (CW, NY) (I can get it OTA, but another source is always good)

Additional SD Movie Channels:
@MAX
5StarMAX
ActionMAX (East)
HBO Comedy (East)
OuterMAX
SHOWTIME Beyond (East)
STARZ! Cinema (East)
STARZ! Comedy
STARZ! Indieplex
STARZ! Retroplex
The Movie Channel Xtra (East)

On Demand Channels:
Cinemax ON DEMAND
HBO ON DEMAND
SHOWTIME ON DEMAND
STARZ! Encore ON DEMAND
STARZ! ON DEMAND
The Movie Channel ON DEMAND
ThrillerMAX (East)


On the negative side, there's some DirecTV channels not on Comcast that I'd miss, though no original content that I watch regularly:
HDNet
HDNet Movies
Independent Film Channel
NASA TV
Sleuth
WE: Women's Entertainment



I pay $131.93/month to DirecTV right now. The top package from Comcast is $114.95, and I'd need at least 1 or 2 HD cable boxes or maybe DVRs from them to get the ON DEMAND stuff, plus 4 or 6 CableCards at $1.50 each depending on whether I decide I need 2 or 3 Series3's. So that's going to be close to the same costs either way.

I currently have 7M/768K Business DSL service with a block of static IPs. And I'm paying for that level pretty dearly at just under $200 a month. And I don't really need it anymore, so I was contemplating I could drop to Comcast's Gold tier which currently offers 8M/1M in my area, and is possibly being upgraded to 16M/2M soon for about $52.95 or so/month. That'll save some $140-$150/month. Comcast was never that reliable in the past, but I do now have my cell phone internet as last-resort backup, so I could live.

Then without the DSL I could drop my $23.26/month Verizon phone line completely, drop my $19.96/month Vonage account, and switch to Comcast's digital voice for $42.95/month. That's pretty much the same costs either way, too. And, frankly, I could just drop it entirely. I could try to live with just my cell phone line.


On the positive side instead of cleaning up my wiring for the satellite dish, I could just remove most of it.

And there are some bundle deals for new customers that offers a lower cost the first 12 months, though I can't tell exactly what level of cable service they come with, or if I can get the higher level of internet service with the bundle.

But I have to reconcile that I'll be dealing with the antichrist in this transaction. But it's all got my mind whirring... the Series3 arrives tomorrow, so there'll be nothing else holding me back from being able to do this if I decide to proceed.

Then there's ultimately disposing of my three hacked HR10-250's to consider... It's a shame there isn't really a low-cost way to keep them active for OTA-only. Paying DirecTV for any package while also paying someone else like Comcast for a package including the same channels just isn't an attractive idea. On the other hand, there's probably some value to recover from the HR10-250's since there's still at least a few good years of usefulness from them, in HD, with DirecTV.


Anyone have any personal experiences going from DirecTV to Comcast?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Anyone have any personal experiences going from DirecTV to Comcast?


No, but this...



dswallow said:


> That'll save some $140-$150/month.


would probably make my mind up for me.


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

Doug:

I had DirecTV and and a DirecTiVo for quite some some time and switched to Comcast last March under a great "switchback" offer. I liked having more HD movie channels and a better HD picture (I found out for myself that the claims of "HD-lite" about DirecTV were real). However, I HATED the Motorola DVR . .. bug-ridden, unreliable, and generally irritating in every way.

I convinced my wife to let me buy the Series 3 last month, and . . .NIRVANA! I have my TiVo back (wife is ecstatic), the greater selection of HD channels (I really don't miss HDNet or HDNet Movies, but love the additional premium channels like Cinemax HD and Starz HD) and no problems with pixelation during snowy weather or thunderstorms. The best of all possible worlds!

Pull the trigger. . . you won't regret it.

Don


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

I agree that you wont regret switching to cable and getting the benefit of the benefits of subscribing to TV, telephone, and Internet services from a single provider. Not only will it save you money, it will simplify your life. Among other conveniences, you can get a single bill for all three services. 

My son is a D* subscriber and I gave him a DirecTiVo a couple of years ago. Since then he has signed up for cable, too. He doesnt like D*s notorious HDTV Lite but has kept D* because of NFL Sunday Ticket.


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## eelton (Jun 10, 2001)

I just cancelled DirecTV after buying an S3. I've had both cable (inlcuded in my condo fee) and satellite for several years, but I couldn't justify it any longer. Cable has gotten better--five years ago, mine was analog only, and the cable box had only an RF output. Now it's all digital, including a lot more HD channels than DirecTV. (And my cable company carries HDnet, HDnet movies, and IFC.)

I have to say, it felt good to rip out all of that DirecTV equipment--I had stackers, destackers, voltage inserters, you name it. That single cable out of the wall certainly has its advantages.

I agree that it would be nice to keep my HR10-250 going for OTA. I called DirecTV and asked if I could just pay the DVR fee without buying programming (already knowing that was unlikely). They said I needed a programming package. I asked if the HD package qualified (hey, it has the word "package" in it), but they said no. At least the HR10-250s are fetching good money on eBay.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I made the switch and am also saving money every month. The Series 3 does have a few issues right now, but I am living with them until an update is released.

Overall I am very happy that I switched.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

eelton said:


> I have to say, it felt good to rip out all of that DirecTV equipment--I had stackers, destackers, voltage inserters, you name it. That single cable out of the wall certainly has its advantages.


I installed a C-Band dish in the 80s, gave up on it after my satellite receiver gave up the ghost in 2000, and subscribed to cable. It was, indeed, refreshing to let the cable company worry about all the hardware. Even after all that, though, I could not resist ordering an S3 the other day, so Im back in the privately owned hardware business, despite myself.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Directv has the worst picture quality, including the "HD-LITE" and SD looks like an old VHS tape. Don't think twice, cable and S3 is the way to go.

Sergio


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Couple of things - 

Your Comcast broadband will be $10 month less if you have cable.

I have both Comcast and DirecTV, but am using DTV less and less, especially for HD broadcasts. To me, the difference between what my Comcast provides and the "HD lite" signal is readily apparent on most stations.

I wouldn't worry about having to get rid of the HR10-250s - their eBay value is actually going up over the last few months. I recently sold a new backup unit for more than twice what I paid for it. And the OTA tuner in the S3 is much better than that in the HR10-250.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I switched from D* to Comcast. I had very great reservations about going back to cable, but in the 9 months between announcement and release of the S3 I came to terms with the idea of doing a deal with the devil and got the S3 as soon as it was available.

I ran both in parallel for a while, I thought I'd eventually suspend D* service for a while before cancelling. But once I started using the S3 I never watched the HR10 any more. After a a couple of month I switched to the cheapest package (Family Choice, $29.99/month) thinking i could keep that for a while. But after another month of never looking at the HR10 it just seemed like a waste. I disconnected from D*, making sure to tell them it was their TiVo policy which lost me (just in case that makes any difference to the new management.)

I had thought I'd just put the HR10 away, just in case, but after seeing what they're going for on eBay I couldn't justify that either. (And the HR10 is currently for sale on eBay.) 

For me, programming is pretty much a wash, there are one or 2 channels one system gets, but not the other, but nothing very significant. Comcast costs me about $15 a month more ($85 vs $70). Comcast customer service is indeed the worst in the world, but once things are set up I can ignore them.

Comcast's SD channels are even worse than D*'s over compressed rubbish, for me at least. Some people says its better, it depends on you local operation. There's hope that they'll get better when the get rid of the analog channels in the not too distant future. They'll have about 4x the bandwidth to use when they do that.

I'm very happy with my 6M/608k DSL so I'm not worrying about cable internet. I was very unimpressed the lasy time I had cable internet.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

I'm looking forward to switching back to cable. The S3 with cablecard makes that an attractive option. I'll save some money on overall monthly cost, but will lose a channel here and there, nothing I can't live without. I'll sure be glad to get rid of that satellite equipment, no more weather fade, cable is more reliable. I only went with D* for the integrated TiVo and lower rates, but those reasons are no more. D* rates have gone up and cable rates in my area have gone down. Im using DSL internet and get a really good rate. I won't go with cable for that. 

I am holding out for now on the switch. If D* offers HD TiVo again, I may stay with them. It could happen because ownership changed hands recently. The previous owner (Murdoch) was contracting his own in-house company for the DVR operating system. I have a feeling the new owner (Liberty Media) will want to detach themselves from any assocation with Murdoch and may go back to TiVo.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Doug,
If the quality of your local Comcast service is as good as I get, it was worth the crap I had to go through with CSR's and installers to get cable re-installed here. Switched from DirecTV back to Comcast last June. Never have I thought that was a mistake. Savings in my case was just a few dollars, but I picked up a significant increase in quality, and a few channels and services that I was paying extra for at DirecTV. When the S3 gets down to about $200, I may buy one...otherwise I'm perfectly satisfied with the Comcast/Motorola 3412 HD-DVR. YMMV. Past performance is not indicative of future return. Blah, blah, blah


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

Doug,

I'm in a similar transition, although I'm moving towards FiOS (from DirecTV).

The reasons? -

FiOS broadband was $10 a month cheaper than my Cable broadband service for about the same speed. I had been using Cable for broadband internet only - and DirecTV for TV service. So I switched, which also got me set up for an easy transition to FiOS TV service.

I finally added FiOS TV service a couple of days ago and I am evaluating it - although I also already ordered an S3, so my "evaluation" may be completed. FiOS TV gives me all of the movie channels in HD (instead of jut HBO and ShowTime from DirecTV), so now I get HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, TMC, and Starz all in HD. AND, it works with TiVo (S3).

Price, when I'm done with all the TiVo and Cablecard fee's, will be about the same as I'm paying for DirecTV.

I probably would have stuck with DirecTV if not for the following - I realized I would NEVER get those additional HD channels from DirecTV without dropping my TiVo box for their HR20.

So - in the end, I could WAIT for DirecTV to add the additional HD movie channels and at that time (and who knows when??) also be forced to use the HR20, or I could just switch to FiOS now, enjoy the HD movie channels now, and be able to stick with TiVo.

btwyx - you'll be seeing my auctions soon as well.

Jim H.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

> I pay $131.93/month to DirecTV right now.


This is insane IMO, but hey it's your money 

My D* bill is less than Half of that and I want to drop D* ASAP.


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## sammick (Mar 1, 2003)

I switched from Direct T.V. and my local phone carrier (Qwest) to Comcast -- 
I am very pleased with Comcast's service in my area-- 
I have unlimited long distance phone--two lines-- 
Comcast digital T.V.--( a silver not the superduper package but I have HBO) 
and great FAST internet 

for about 200 a month as opposed to the 250 that I was paying 

It depends on your Comcast service in your area--ask your friends--but I am very happy here with their service.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

slimoli said:


> Directv has the worst picture quality, including the "HD-LITE" and SD looks like an old VHS tape. Don't think twice, cable and S3 is the way to go.
> 
> Sergio


What a big bag of BS.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Stanley Rohner said:


> What a big bag of BS.


Spoken by someone who obviously hasn't compared HD offerings from DirecTV and Comcast side-by-side.

I always doubted the "DirecTV HD-lite" until I had something else to compare it with (two different inputs, same set).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Well I just came back to Comcast and even the SD analog channels are noticeably better than the channels on DirecTV. There is alot of detail missing from the DirecTV channels. I was surprised at the difference since it wasn't like that a few years ago. I'm still going to need to keep a couple of boxes on DirecTV so I can have the HDNEt channels since Comcast around here only has a few NAtional HD channels, but that should change shortly since they are in the process of upgrading the system. Comcast gave me a package for a year that includes digital cable and the HBO and showtime channels(although I will only watch the HD versions) for only $29.95 a month for 12 months. They also gave me the top internet tier(8mbs/768kbs) for $44.95.(although I could have received the 6mbs/368kbs tier for $34.95)The only bad thing is that Comcast charges $4.95 per cablecard around here so that will be almost $30 for my three S3 boxes plus the $7 to $8 per box fee to TiVo. It won't be bad for the first year with the discount and I hope by the end of the 12 months that Fios will be available so I can go to them and get a better deal than Comcast.
I still have to get my cablecard situation fixed since I can only receive the unencrypted channels. Hopefully it will be fixed this weekend.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Spoken by someone who obviously hasn't compared HD offerings from DirecTV and Comcast side-by-side.
> 
> I always doubted the "DirecTV HD-lite" until I had something else to compare it with (two different inputs, same set).


There is simply no doubt about the inferiority of D*s HD transmissions. Anyone who has had the opportunity to do A-B comparisons between D* and either cable or OTA HD transmissions knows this is true. My son has both D* and cable and I have seen it myself at his house. Those who call the phenomenon a big bag of BS are in denial.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

gwsat said:


> There is simply no doubt about the inferiority of D*s HD transmissions. Anyone who has had the opportunity to do A-B comparisons between D* and either cable or OTA HD transmissions knows this is true. My son has both D* and cable and I have seen it myself at his house. Those who call the phenomenon a big bag of BS are in denial.


I'm not in denial.

I've compared it to OTA HD transmissions and I know what the other poster said is a big bag of BS.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Stanley Rohner said:


> I'm not in denial.
> 
> I've compared it to OTA HD transmissions and I know what the other poster said is a big bag of BS.


There's a significant difference between MPEG4/Ka-band HD locals vs. OTA HD locals and any of the national HD channels such as HBO HD or Showtime HD vs. their counterparts via many cable systems.

In the MPEG4/Ka-band world, DirecTV seems to be doing fine maintaining the original quality; but for those channels on MPEG2/Ku-band, they're resolution-reduced and highly compressed and most cable systems are doing much better.


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

dswallow said:


> It appears I'm on the verge of a big change.


I may be following in your footsteps.

Unlike you, I have no issues with Comcast, and have used them for analog cable and Internet since before I switched to DirecTV to get the integrated dual-tuner Tivo DVR in 2002. I'd say switching back would save me a bill, but I wouldn't make the switch without a Series 3, so I'll be just be swapping DirecTV for TiVo if I go that route.

Unlike you, my costs appear to go up substantially if I leave DirecTV for Comcast.

I currently have Total Choice Plus + HBO from DirecTV. I have two DirecTiVo receivers, so my total bill with tax is about $77.00/month today. I'd add $10/month to add HD service, but as folks know, the channel selection is thin. In our area, Comcast has -a lot- more HD channels than does DirecTV. I'm not too keen on throwing an OTA antenna on the roof either.

Unless I'm missing something, it seems the cheapest equivilent package from Comcast in our area is the Digital Silver package which comes with one Premium channel package. So, if I get that with HBO, it is (after February rate increases) $80.99 month.

On top of that are monthly charges for Cablecards (2xfree and 2x$1.50 if I get two series 3 units, or 1xfree and 1x$1.50) if I get one Series 2 and one Series 3.

If I want to take advantage of On Demand programming, I'd need the ~$5.00/month digital receiver from Comcast. It is a shame you can't get that with the Cablecards...

I'm not sure if there is an "additional outlet" charge for a second TV with Comcast in our area.

And -- I'd need to pay TiVo about $15.00/month too for service on two boxes.

After all that, I still need to purchase the S3 -- for some reason, purchasing the unit doesn't bother me -- the monthly fees are the gift that keep on giving...

As far as their bundles go -- their phone service looks to cost more than my Qwest phone line. I'm already a Comcast Internet customer, so I don't think I'd get any sort of new customer deal. The only option would be if they had some sort of "dump the dish" promotion in this area that would apply to existing customers.

Or -- I could stay with DirecTV -- have them give me a new dish and an HR20 for $99.00 or so, installed, and pay about $90.00 a month.

I wish there were an online simulator for the HR20. My wife and I could try it out and see just how much the TiVo interface is really worth to us. I think I'd miss my suggestions, and the ability to jump between the two tuners.

John


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Stanley Rohner said:


> I'm not in denial.
> 
> I've compared it to OTA HD transmissions and I know what the other poster said is a big bag of BS.


You are crazy if you don't think cable HD has better PQ than DirecTV HD. Even the digital cable channels I get look better than DirecTV's SD channels. Now the analog channels I get don't look all that great. But they look good enough to me.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

dswallow said:


> It appears I'm on the verge of a big change. For the last few days I guess it's sunk in that I ordered a Series 3 since I could transfer DirecTV DVR lifetime service to it...


I have not previously heard about the opportunity to convert Lifetime DirecTV TiVo service to Lifetime service on a S3 HD TiVo.

When did this come about? Is it published somewhere?

I did originally pay the Lifetime service fee to TiVo, before DirecTV and TiVo rearranged their roles in the partnership.

Any added information would be appreciated.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Budget_HT said:


> I have not previously heard about the opportunity to convert Lifetime DirecTV TiVo service to Lifetime service on a S3 HD TiVo.
> 
> When did this come about? Is it published somewhere?
> 
> ...


Hurry. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=332803


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> You are crazy if you don't think cable HD has better PQ than DirecTV HD. Even the digital cable channels I get look better than DirecTV's SD channels. Now the analog channels I get don't look all that great. But they look good enough to me.


+1 here. Comcast here is doing ADS, and since my first box with Comcast was the Moto DCT-3412, an all digital box, now I'm getting digital on all the SD channels on my S3. Picture quality runs circles around DTV's SD channels.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I didn't have HD with DirecTV but I can say without hesitation that many SD channels look MUCH better in DirecTV than my local cable company. Unfortunately the locals go through the cable company so they are about equal. But ESPN and a few other "basic cable" channels have some issues occasionally.

I am not sure if it's just Dexter or what, but there are some major problems with Showtime HD with Charter (my cable company). The brightness wavers constantly. I haven't watched anything else on Show HD to see if it happens then too.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Oh and telephone service through charter is pretty crappy. Noticeably worse than a normal telephone. My guess is that it's not substantially different than vonage. But for $30 unlimited local and long distance, not bad.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

tazzmission said:


> You are crazy if you don't think cable HD has better PQ than DirecTV HD. Even the digital cable channels I get look better than DirecTV's SD channels. Now the analog channels I get don't look all that great. But they look good enough to me.


You are crazy for getting so uptight about this.


The DIRECTV HD channels might not seem as awesome as cabletv HD channels to you, but they look good enough to me.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I find it suspicious that you can't get IFC. Do you mean you have to pay for it and aren't willing to? It's a fairly popular channel...


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Stanley Rohner said:


> You are crazy for getting so uptight about this.
> 
> 
> The DIRECTV HD channels might not seem as awesome as cabletv HD channels to you, but they look good enough to me.


Just because you don't care about PQ and don't want to get the best picture that you can doesn't mean that:

a) The statement that D* has worse PQ than cable is BS.

or

b) That people that are interested in getting a better PQ are wrong.

Good enough for you? I'm happy for you. Some of us demand more.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

GoHokies! - Well said!

Besides, he's got a 55 gallon drum of BS anyways and perhaps it's blurring his vision.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I find it suspicious that you can't get IFC. Do you mean you have to pay for it and aren't willing to? It's a fairly popular channel...


It's not in the lineup for the area as shown in comcast.com, and it's not in the lineup looking at the Comcast/Eatontown listings from titantv.com. So as best I can tell, it's not carried.

One thing's for sure... the comcast.com lineup isn't right; it's very screwed up, with lots of missing info and missing lineups to correspond with various package levels. But on the titantv.com side of things, it looks accurate.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Comcast (from Adelphia) in NoVA has IFC.

No HDN*, though, unfortunately (soon ... it's on until the 15th)


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## MPeter (Jun 4, 2002)

I too just pulled the plug (ok, coax) from the dish tonight. I had been with DirecTV since late 1995 but the past 3+ years I continued to see PQ decline and rates go up while Comcast in my local area improved reliability and rates became comparable. The last straw was really the poor quality of my locals (Boston). Our ABC affiliate consistently has ghosting and every time I called DirecTV for tech support they seemed like the couldn't care less about the quality. 

When I called Comcast to order the CableCard's for my new Series 3 I decided to see if they had any deal for switching from the dish. I honestly didn't expect an offer since I have been a Comcast customer for Basic + Internet, but it was worth a check. Turns out the offer was very competitive. $500 service credit over the next 12 months and waiving the $30 tech fee I would have paid to have the CableCard's installed. Bingo! Done deal. 

Even after the service credits expire, my monthly bill with Comcast will be all of $3 more than what I am paying now to DirecTV. None of the channels I'm losing are deal breakers (NASA and WGN being the only 2 I will truly miss).


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

MPeter said:


> When I called Comcast to order the CableCard's for my new Series 3 I decided to see if they had any deal for switching from the dish.


I wonder if that is local to your area. I too am a Comcast Cable Internet customer, and didn't see anything on the web site about a promotion moving from Satellite. I noticed that a neighbor's dish had fallen off their house. Maybe it is a sign...



MPeter said:


> Even after the service credits expire, my monthly bill with Comcast will be all of $3 more than what I am paying now to DirecTV. None of the channels I'm losing are deal breakers (NASA and WGN being the only 2 I will truly miss).


I'm surprised cable isn't carrying it. It is apparently free for the broadcasters to carry (assuming they have the bandwidth).

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/digital.html


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Our Comcast system definitely carries the NASA channel.


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

HomieG said:


> Our Comcast system definitely carries the NASA channel.


And where in the Comcast universe might you be located, Mr. Nowhere man?


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

JohnnyO said:


> And where in the Comcast universe might you be located, Mr. Nowhere man?


Oh, you'll have to guess that  I'm in the Atlanta area. Darn it, now I am somewhere, not nowhere.


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## MPeter (Jun 4, 2002)

JohnnyO said:


> I wonder if that is local to your area. I too am a Comcast Cable Internet customer, and didn't see anything on the web site about a promotion moving from Satellite. I noticed that a neighbor's dish had fallen off their house. Maybe it is a sign...


I too looked online but didn't notice any advertised deals for switching from the dish. The rep that put the order in for the cablecards wasn't able to process any "special" offer for upgrading from the dish but did forward me onto the 2nd rep who cheerfully offered the $500 over 12 month and waived installation fee for the cable cards. Perhaps I got lucky with a rep who was willing to look at what they could offer.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Just because you don't care about PQ and don't want to get the best picture that you can doesn't mean that:
> 
> a) The statement that D* has worse PQ than cable is BS.
> 
> ...


Yeah, sure, whatever you say GoHokies!

I'm glad you're happy for me.

I'm sure this supposed quality difference you speak of is barely noticeable. I'm sure it's not - DIRECTV HD - horrible, CABLETV HD - heaven on earth.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Stanley Rohner said:


> Yeah, sure, whatever you say GoHokies!
> 
> I'm glad you're happy for me.
> 
> I'm sure this supposed quality difference you speak of is barely noticeable. I'm sure it's not - DIRECTV HD - horrible, CABLETV HD - heaven on earth.


Barely noticeable so much so that everyone in the thread but you can see it? Yeah, right.

I don't know what your problem is, man...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Barely noticeable so much so that everyone in the thread but you can see it? Yeah, right.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man...


Not everyone... my direcTV looked better than my current cable, although as I said that's for SD channels.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

GoHokies! said:


> Barely noticeable so much so that everyone in the thread but you can see it? Yeah, right.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man...


Agreed. D* is actually getting sued for misrepresenting its HD service. D* downconverts the original 1920x1080 signal to 1280x1080 (meaning D* removes 33% of the original image data). D* then filters the remaining data to remove some details. I don't believe the actual signal from D* meets any ATSC standard for HD. There's no way this looks just as good on a true HD set than the original 1920x1080 signal. It certainly didn't on mine.

One thing to consider, though - it all depends on the TV you are using. My old one had a max resolution of 12** x something. HD looked much better than SD on that TV, but it wasn't displaying 1920 horizontal lines. You could have fed that TV a 1920x1080 signal and a 1280x1080 signal, and they would have looked the same.

All other things being equal, HD from D* will not look as good on a true HD set than the original un-processed HD signal.


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## gostan (Oct 6, 2002)

I only wish that the Series 3 had been released earlier. My switch from DTV to Comcast has been better than I could have expected. I did keep DTV for about a week overlap, just to be sure that I was making the correct move. Now, if only DTV would send me the overpayment credit that they have owed me for 11 weeks.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

GoHokies! said:


> Barely noticeable so much so that everyone in the thread but you can see it? Yeah, right.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man...


Yep, he hasn't learned Rule One of Internet posting:

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.


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## oysterhead (Oct 18, 2006)

If any of you D* deserters would like to sell your HR10-250, please let me know.

I know someone that would like to add another Tivo to their D* household.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

oysterhead said:


> If any of you D* deserters would like to sell your HR10-250, please let me know.
> 
> I know someone that would like to add another Tivo to their D* household.


Yesterday I was looking around the CompUSA in Brick, NJ and they had their floor model HR10-250 priced at $249.99 (or 249.95 or close). At least I assume it was for the floor model, since there were no boxes around and it was labeled "Manager's Special."

If your friend has a local CompUSA they might want to go look.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

They're going for about that much and less on Craigslist too. More on ebay. Hmm, do I smell a business opportunity?


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Barely noticeable so much so that everyone in the thread but you can see it? Yeah, right.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man...


This is the TiVo Series3 cabletv HD programming love-in forum. That's why everyone in the thread says I'm crazy.

I don't know what your problem is, man.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

Stanley Rohner said:


> This is the TiVo Series3 cabletv HD programming love-in forum. That's why everyone in the thread says I'm crazy.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man.


For your TV, and your viewing distance, and your eyesight, and on and on, HD may look OK for you from D*.

For those of us with true 1080p TVs, there is no comparison.


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## akaye (Jan 3, 2004)

I changed FROM Comcast TO DirecTV and could not be happier.

In my area Comcast has:
Lousy picture quality (channel 2 is always red)
Lousy reliablity (VOD isn't worth anyything if it's always down.)
Lousy customer service. (When complaing about VOD being down, the CSR "well, it's free.")
Far more expensive than DirectTV for digital service.
And, it turns out, they also have lousy retention efforts.

Their Internet service was no better. 3 MB/s DSL is faster than 6MB/s cable if the cable isn't working, which was happening every week.

I don't know how HD or premium channels would have effected my decision, but they are not currently a cencern of mine.

Comcast-free and Loving it,
AK


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

So, basically, you called threatening to cancel and they didn't promise you the moon to keep you, eh? 

And do you watch HD on DTV? It IS atrocious! Unless your TV is subpar too


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Hey Doug. I just went through the same process as you are considering. Long, long, long, time Sat TV customer that has now swtiched over to Comcast Cable.

Pros:
1. Simple "single coax cable" system is much easier to distribute through the whole house. Huge plus since I do all my own wiring in our whole house Video Dist. system

2. They will have a future that includes TiVo. DirecTV will not.

3. The S3 is a totally cool box and works great. Very quiet, runs cool, and is as responsive as the prior TiVo Sat boxes. Reprioritizing takes less than a minute now compared to eons with older TiVo boxes. It's pretty zippy except for populating lists and initializing recordings from the guide. I expect this will improve with software updates. 

Cons:

1. Cable Cards... Once the cable company irons out the bugs, they seem to work fine. This is strictly a patience issue. You just have to keep trying until they find a card combo that works. Now that they have their end setup properly I couldn't be happier.

2. No interactive PPV. However. You can call in and get the PPV authorized to record on your TIVo boxes but only with a call. Otherwise you can order it interactively with a Comcast Box but it will only show on that box. Which isn't so bad, now that I've figured out a way to enable "30 second skip" on the Motorola boxes. 


Overall I have a sense of relief to be rid of Satellite dishes. I just don't see much of a future there for TiVo and everyone seems to feel that Cable Co's have better PQ on the HD channels which is mostly what we watch here. The simplified wiring for Cable eliminates multiswtiches and allow for the possibility of having a set top box on each TV or simply leaving them all in the rack and distributing them throghout the house. It would be trivial to have a hybrid system that incorporates both. This is huge. Trying to do the same thing with Sat dishes would mean a whole bunch of new Coax cables would have to be run. To try and do a hybrid system neatly would be a major headache that nobody in this household (which places yours truly direcly under the gun for future maintenance) or future owners of this house would ever be able to figure out.  

The "On Demand" feature (as opposed to PPV) is a wonderful addition that I THOUGHT I didn't care about. At least until we forgot to record Survivor one night and were able to view with "On Demand" for FREE the next day! There are also Movies and events that you literally watch "On Demand". No waiting for the time window to come around, just watch it like it were a DVD.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Stanley Rohner said:


> This is the TiVo Series3 cabletv HD programming love-in forum. That's why everyone in the thread says I'm crazy.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man.


Yeah, that's all we do is sit around and talk about how wonderful the S3 is.

Nice to see that when you can't come up with any content you just insult everybody.

I'm really beginning to think that you're a paid DTV shill, trying to convince people that come here that DTV's subpar "HD"TV signals are "just as good" as OTA.

(If anything this is an OTA HD love in, not a cable one)


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Can't we all just get along !!!!

Happy new year to all of you !

I shall not speak of this topic again.

I don't want this to have us at each other throats.

God bless.
If you believe in God that is.
Oh no, I hope I didn't start something else.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Well, back to the original point of this thread... 

Comcast is scheduled to be here to do an install on January 18 between 9am and 11am. I went with their Triple Play Platinum (or was that Triple Play Premier?)... $159.95/month and that's the full digital cable video stuff and all 5 movie channel groups, plus a digital voice line with all features and unlimited US/CA/PR calling, plus the 8M/1M gold tier of Cable Internet.

I also have them bringing 2 CableCards for the Series 3 and 2 HD DVR's so I have access to their On Demand stuff. It's something like $11.95 for the first HD DVR then $16.75 for the second. I don't have a price written down for the CableCard's. I guess I'm supposed to be surprised on the first bill.

If all goes well I'll probably make the "cancel my account" or maybe the "suspend my account" call to DirecTV after the following weekend, so I have some time to make some A/B comparison recordings from the same content on both systems.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bareyb: Exactly right in my opinion...


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

When my HR10-250 died, DirecTV sent me an HR20 as a replacement. They refused to get me an HR10, so I sent the broken one back to them and sold the HR20 to someone on ebay.

I have ordered a Series3, but I am not leaving DirecTV (yet.) I plan to use the S3 with OTA programming, and my remaining 4 SD DirecTiVo boxes with satellite. With this setup, I can still use MRV between all of the rooms for SD content, and I can watch HD content in the living room. When I move later this year, I will cancel DirecTV and get cable, and I guess I'll have to buy a couple DT boxes (or maybe more Series3 boxes  )


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

akaye said:


> I changed FROM Comcast TO DirecTV and could not be happier.


Yea, switching back to cable is not something I'd be doing without any reservation at all. When I was on cable a few years ago, I do remember occasional outages and PQ issues on some channels. I noticed some improvement with D*, but that was before I had an HD set. IIRC, cable outages were far less frequent than the weather fade I've experienced with satellite. Both providers have their faults so it really comes down to what it takes to keep the TiVo. If D* still offered a HD TiVo, I'd just stay with them. Since they've changed ownership, they might do that again.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

CraigHB said:


> Since they've changed ownership, they might do that again.


Even if that were to happen, that sort of decision by new owners wouldn't begin to have an effect until June or July since that's when the deal is expected to close, and from there it'd simply take time to develop and begin deploying a new TiVo-based solution. If it could happen at all, it'd be well after July 2008 before we'd have a chance of using such equipment, IMO.


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## twoehr (Apr 13, 2004)

Ding-dong, D* is dead at my house. I just called and cancelled. I'm Series 3 TiVo now. I wanted an HD DVR box for a second TV, but thought it too high. I was originally told $10 then it became $25+, no thanks. I will miss the clearer SD stuff that is now on analog channels, but TiVo is supreme. If only I had fios, drool, I can't believe how much HD they have.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

dswallow said:


> If it could happen at all, it'd be well after July 2008 before we'd have a chance of using such equipment, IMO.


Yea, I think I better just plan on doing the switch then.


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## Enigma869 (Jul 6, 2005)

Stanley Rohner said:


> This is the TiVo Series3 cabletv HD programming love-in forum. That's why everyone in the thread says I'm crazy.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is, man.


For the record, I am a DirecTV customer and have been for over 10 years. I can tell you that being a football junkie is the ONLY reason DTV has kept my business all these years. I'm not sure how anyone who is a DTV subscriber and actually has the ability to see, can possibly think they offer a better picture quality, than almost any other option, under the sun. As I said, I am still a DTV customer (will be changing to cable when I move into my new home), and I am appalled at how poor so many of the channels have become on DTV. It definitely hasn't always been this bad, but, is getting progressively worse, with each passing year.

The SD games on NFL Sunday Ticket aren't even watchable, and this is a package they charge over $200 per season for!!!!! I know someone within this thread used the old VHS quality, when speaking of the DTV picture quality...I think it's FAR worse than that, on some channels!!!! I'll still keep an open mind and would look at DTV in the future, if and when they could ever figure out their awful picture quality issues, and bring TiVo back on board! Also, they need to catch up with the world of cable, when it comes to HD offerings. DTV was always VERY progressive when it came to adding new channels and new HD channels. That time has passed, and most of the cable industry has left DTV in the dust, when it comes to the latest and greatest programming and picture quality! For the record, I always hated cable, back when I had it. That said, I'm not blind and have to give credit where credit is due! I honestly hope DTV figures it all out, but only time will tell. They better keep spending a small fortune to maintain the exclusive rights on NFL ST, because I think if they ever lose that offering, a whole lot of subscribers will bail on them!

John from Boston


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Enigma869 said:


> For the record, I am a DirecTV customer and have been for over 10 years. I can tell you that being a football junkie is the ONLY reason DTV has kept my business all these years. I'm not sure how anyone who is a DTV subscriber and actually has the ability to see, can possibly think they offer a better picture quality, than almost any other option, under the sun. As I said, I am still a DTV customer (will be changing to cable when I move into my new home), and I am appalled at how poor so many of the channels have become on DTV. It definitely hasn't always been this bad, but, is getting progressively worse, with each passing year.
> 
> The SD games on NFL Sunday Ticket aren't even watchable, and this is a package they charge over $200 per season for!!!!! I know someone within this thread used the old VHS quality, when speaking of the DTV picture quality...I think it's FAR worse than that, on some channels!!!! I'll still keep an open mind and would look at DTV in the future, if and when they could ever figure out their awful picture quality issues, and bring TiVo back on board! Also, they need to catch up with the world of cable, when it comes to HD offerings. DTV was always VERY progressive when it came to adding new channels and new HD channels. That time has passed, and most of the cable industry has left DTV in the dust, when it comes to the latest and greatest programming and picture quality! For the record, I always hated cable, back when I had it. That said, I'm not blind and have to give credit where credit is due! I honestly hope DTV figures it all out, but only time will tell. They better keep spending a small fortune to maintain the exclusive rights on NFL ST, because I think if they ever lose that offering, a whole lot of subscribers will bail on them!
> 
> John from Boston


I agree with you about picture quality (PQ) at Directv going way down hill. I got my first Directv receiver in 1997. Picture quality was nearly DVD quality on most channels. Cable looked like crap by comparison. I was thrilled to have Directv. Now the PQ on Directv is not as good as cable. Directv went down, Cable got better. My HDTV has a built in QAM tuner. One night the Game Show Network was unblocked and I could get it on my TV. I compared the PQ between Directv and cable and was amazed at how great the digital version of GSN looked on cable. The picture was much sharper and had a lot more color. The Directv version was washed out and somewhat blurry.

I now have a Series 3 Tivo and I am very impressed with the PQ of the analog cable channels. They have more detail and look very clean. There is no snow or fuzz in the cable picture like there used to be. My days with Directv may be numbered.

I have high speed Internet from cable so I get some channels from them as well.


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## peitsche (Nov 13, 2002)

HomieG said:


> When the S3 gets down to about $200, I may buy one...


according to this poll, you might have to wait years and years...


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## Sparlimb (Dec 24, 2006)

And if you read between the lines, with the two new satellites Directv is sending up this year, they will have a LOT more bandwidth to transmit the HD channels with the full 19.4 Mbps. It sounds like cable companies are going to be hardpressed to keep up with the satellite companies in this respect. So Comcast may have a better picture now, but that may be changing very soon...

As an aside, there is a class action lawsuit in California against Directv for how low they've compressed their HD signal. Will be interesting to watch...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Sparlimb said:


> And if you read between the lines, with the two new satellites Directv is sending up this year, they will have a LOT more bandwidth to transmit the HD channels with the full 19.4 Mbps. It sounds like cable companies are going to be hardpressed to keep up with the satellite companies in this respect. So Comcast may have a better picture now, but that may be changing very soon...
> 
> As an aside, there is a class action lawsuit in California against Directv for how low they've compressed their HD signal. Will be interesting to watch...


I know some Comcast headends reshape/compress signal. But with a 6412, I've confirmed that mine sends through the straight bandwidth that th local OTA towers broadcast it at. It is they that don't use the entire 19.2 and insert junk weather, radar and SD ATSC sub-channels that eat away at it!

As for DTV's claims about adding more (nationwide, HD) channel, I'm going to take that one with a large teaspoon of salt. Most channels they've listed (and that doesn't add up to even a nett total of 30 - plus say 10-12 forced/redundant local sports HD retransmits) don't even EXIST in HD yet. Are they going to have 60-70 HD cameras pointed at Rupert Murdoch's nose for the other 70 channels?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I can't believe it took me this long, but I finally severed the dish. I just got off the phone canceling my DirecTV account. I guess having been with them since 10/94 I just really had a hard time leaving. Alas, the ups and downs of the industry...

Actually I just let it end on my billing date, so I will still have service through May 6th.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

And now, be prepared for the inevatable year of come-back offers and calls (even being on the DNC registry isn't enough - when you cancel a service, they have a 'right' to call you to win you back for 12 months!)

My calls from Dish finally stopped 4-5 months after I cancelled ONLY after I was loud, boorish and insulting to the umpteenth caller to my cellphone from a different Dish retention/sales phone number. Very out of character for me, but Iw as plenty ticked off by that point!

What's hilarious is that by that point they were offering me $150 cash back (100 discount off bills, 50 refund of my cancellation fee) plus a free 211 MPEG4 HD receiver (which was mye arlier issue - they refused to swap a 211 for the 811 they fraudulently sent me) and even offered me between 3-6 free months of various premium/HD packages! Sorry, I was back in TiVo land, the S3 was about to come out and I had NO intention of ever going back


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sparlimb said:


> And if you read between the lines, with the two new satellites Directv is sending up this year, they will have a LOT more bandwidth to transmit the HD channels with the full 19.4 Mbps.


They won't be doing that. The new channels are all going to be recompressed with MPEG-4, and delivered at a low bit rate -- possibly even lower than what they use now for MPEG-2 HD. (If they use the same bit rate, the MPEG-4 channels should look better. But given that DirecTV claims to have great PQ now, they'll probably just aim to match their current PQ -- which, with MPEG-4, means an even lower bit rate. On no account will they be delivering 19.2 Mbps.)


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Yea, i cut the cord not too long ago. I wasn't with DirecTV as long as you, but I felt I was excerisizing my power of choice as a consumer. You don't always have options so it feels good when you can do it. Everything's been working good with the S3 for a while now. No problems, no regrets.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Quite a few of my neighbors here in Florida have portable generators. After a few hours without power the cable signal goes away. But with DTV I had half my neighbors over at my house watching TV the last time a hurricane rolled through. Oddly enough not a single one of them complained about the crappy HD picture quality.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> Quite a few of my neighbors here in Florida have portable generators. After a few hours without power the cable signal goes away. But with DTV I had half my neighbors over at my house watching TV the last time a hurricane rolled through. Oddly enough not a single one of them complained about the crappy HD picture quality.


I get all my locals OTA, and perhaps 90% of my viewing is from content received over the air, so I'm not that worried about it... and any content from subscription channels is more than likely repeated often so I'll have other opportunities to watch it.

I also have about 1.5TB of content stored on my server and some 400+ DVD's. I won't lack things to do during a power outage. And if any of that got boring, I've got some 1,300+ books, at least some of which I'm sure I don't remember enough that I could read them and think it was the first time. 

Though admittedly, I certainly considered that aspect of satellite television a big plus -- at least before I switched to HD years back and was getting most locals OTA.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

dswallow said:


> I get all my locals OTA, and perhaps 90% of my viewing is from content received over the air, so I'm not that worried about it... and any content from subscription channels is more than likely repeated often so I'll have other opportunities to watch it.


I have a similar situation. At least half of my HD content comes in OTA, so a power outage that lasted so long it knocked out cable for any length of time would fall far short of crippling my TV viewing.

Given what we have learned about D*s limitations, I cannot imagine why anyone who has access to decent cable service and is not a died-in-the-wool NFL addict would subscribe. Among other things, I like that single monthly bill for cable, high speed Internet, and telephone service. I suppose that we arent typical consumers, though. Otherwise D* would not be able to keep getting away with its benighted policy of strangling bandwidth.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

gwsat said:


> I have a similar situation. At least half of my HD content comes in OTA, so a power outage that lasted so long it knocked out cable for any length of time would fall far short of crippling my TV viewing.
> 
> Given what we have learned about D*s limitations, I cannot imagine why anyone who has access to decent cable service and is not a died-in-the-wool NFL addict would subscribe. Among other things, I like that single monthly bill for cable, high speed Internet, and telephone service. I suppose that we arent typical consumers, though. Otherwise D* would not be able to keep getting away with its benighted policy of strangling bandwidth.


Have you ever subscribed to Directv?

The biggest thing that has kept me with them is the fact that I can multi-room my content, even the HD stuff. I can't do that with my Comcast-connected S3. I can with MRV on my Dtivos and HME on my HR-10s.

Yes, it's not official, but it works very well.

It will be interesting to see what happens when all of the new channels come online and I am forced to watch them through the HR20. I'm not looking forward to that.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebockelman said:


> Have you ever subscribed to Directv?
> 
> The biggest thing that has kept me with them is the fact that I can multi-room my content, even the HD stuff. I can't do that with my Comcast-connected S3. I can with MRV on my Dtivos and HME on my HR-10s.
> 
> ...


When did this start? I knew you could share music and photos and stuff, but when did they enable you to transfer HD recordings to your PC or another DVR??


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> Have you ever subscribed to Directv?


My son has both D* and cable, so I have had the opportunity to make A/B comparisons between the PQ of the D* transmission and the cable transmission of the same program on his 55 inch HDTV. Have you been able to do this? Anyway, my son and I agree that D*s PQ is palpably inferior to cable. PQ is a subjective matter, of course, but what my son and I have observed seems to be the consensus. If it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk . . . well, you get it.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Unsupported hacks. All D* TiVos can do this after some (somewhat heavier) mods.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ashu said:


> Unsupported hacks. All D* TiVos can do this after some (somewhat heavier) mods.


I thought he was talking about current models...


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