# Possibilites of a Series3/TivoHD upgrade beyond 2TB?



## CrashHD

Has anyone tried to upgrade a Series3/TivoHD past 2TB total capacity lately? Since one of the recent software updates allowed greater than 1TB partitions, making it conveniently possible to upgrade any of these units to 2TB, I've been wondering if any other limitations may have been removed as well, and in fact greater yet capacities may be possible. 

When I find an eSATA enclosure, I am considering attempting a 4TB setup in a 2TB + 2TB configuration.


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## jmbach

It is theoretically possible to expand a TiVo HD series 3 to 3TB or 4TB as it has a 64bit MFS. The OLED S3 has a 32bit MFS and consequently cannot be upgraded further. I have proved that 11.0k software can see a 3TB drive. (Transferred my 2TB image to a 3TB drive and booted it in the TiVo.)

That being said, I was hoping someone would try this. I only have an OLED S3 to work with and thus was unable to try what I think is possible. If you are willing to try this I am willing to help. The method would be similar to building a 3TB or 4TB premiere. The quickest and easiest method is if you have a TiVo HD XL 1TB image, place it on a 3TB drive and use JMFS to expand to 3TB. What Model S3 do you have.


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## CrashHD

I have two of each at my disposal. I collected up some broken lifetime units on ebay in need of PSU caps and/or hdd replacement.

I have two brand new 2TB drives to play with, and one of the units already has a 2TB drive in it. I was thinking of testing by trying to break 2TB (TiB technically) with a dual drive setup, and pending results of that test, then purchasing a larger hard drive. I don't want to buy a 3TB or 4TB drive only to find out I have no use for it.

I presently do not have an eSATA controller, and I have been for some time away from this game (last time I was regularly active here, hacking 6.2a to enable MRV was the big thing, that has been some time ago). Is there not some restriction for the TivoHD only being able to use a certain type of eSATA device?


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## jmbach

Doing 2TB + 2TB should not be a problem. I think WinMFS can register a non supported external drive to the HD S3. I know it can do it to the OLED S3s. The OLED S3s are limited by a 32bit MFS so they can only address 2TB. The HD S3s have a 64bit MFS so they can go much larger and only limited by the fact a 32bit APM is still used in TiVo.


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## unitron

jmbach said:


> Doing 2TB + 2TB should not be a problem. I think WinMFS can register a non supported external drive to the HD S3. I know it can do it to the OLED S3s. The OLED S3s are limited by a 32bit MFS so they can only address 2TB. The HD S3s have a 64bit MFS so they can go much larger and only limited by the fact a 32bit APM is still used in TiVo.


Can the 648s only address 2TB per drive, or only 2TB total?

The 648 debuted with an eSATA port but it wasn't enabled. People figured out an unofficial way to enable it, so by the time TiVo themselves sent down a software update that would make adding an eSATA external "Plug and Play" they couldn't include the "official" and very short list of approved WD drive model numbers without breaking already working installations.

But when the HD and HD XL came out, they had the list, and supposedly only drives on that list will be accepted, which means only a 500GB or a 1TB.

Is there a way for the HD and HD XL to work around that list?


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## CrashHD

unitron said:


> Can the 648s only address 2TB per drive, or only 2TB total?
> <snip>
> Is there a way for the HD and HD XL to work around that list?


 When I get ahold of an eSATA enclosure, I suppose I will find out.

I am not certain, but I believe the limitation to the officially supported expansion drives only pertains to use via plug and play installation. I believe manually configuring dual drive tivos can be done they same way it's always been done.


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## jmbach

The 648 has a 32bit MFS and that is what limits it to around 2TB total external and internal space. That is an educated guess based on a 32bit file system limitations. I guess the easiest test would be for someone who already has a 2TB 648 try adding a 500GB or 1TB expander. If it works, then TiVo figured out away around that and you probably can have a 2TB + 2TB system. Kind of like the way they made a work around for the 32bit APM limitations in getting drives larger than 2TB to work but in the MFS realm. I would but I have fiddled with my TiVos so much, I promised my wife a lengthy break so she can record and watch her shows without interruption.


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## jmbach

WinMFS can add an external drive. I'll have to go back and reread the instructions, but I believe it can add a non approved drive to an HD or HD XL.


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## CrashHD

Getting closer. I just finished recapping the TivoHD that will be the testbed for this project. It is in the process of booting up, and looks like that repair will be successful. I was all set to start testing, but I got the phone call from my second job, and it's time to go drive the snow plow. :yuck:

I still don't have an eSATA device, but I have a standard SATA cable, and a means of powering the second drive. I'm intending to test with that, as time permits. 

The snow is not too deep, hopefully it will plow quick and I'll still have an opportunity to test tonight. Not likely, but hopefully. I was really hoping to test this while still riding the high of the successful PSU repair.


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## CrashHD

Snow was light, plowing went quick...testing tonight. Fingers crossed.


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## CrashHD

The Tivo, a TivoHD (652) successfully booted with a single 2TB drive (not surprising). Adding a second 2TB drive via winMFS results in a reboot loop. At the end of the "almost there" screen, the screen blinks, goes dark for a few seconds like it normally does before going to the startup video, and comes back with a reboot instead.

I don't know if it's just beyond the software capabilities, or perhaps requires a different expansion method. I may have to read up on this JMFS tool (I've been gone from this for a while, my skillset is not current).


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## jmbach

Consider using MFSLive as well. In JMFS mfsadd.sh has an undocumented feature of adding a drive. Not sure if it is fully functional. One thing I would check is the MFS header and see what drives are listed there. There might be some inconsistencies.


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## jmbach

Since you don't have an eSata connector/dock, how did you connect it to the TiVo.


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## CrashHD

With the case open, I used a standard SATA power cable, and a separate power supply for the second hard drive. It sounds kind of rube goldberg, but I ran it like that for two weeks on a single hard drive, waiting for the digikey delivery and time to recap the PSU. With the bad caps on the PSU, it would reboot almost every half hour. Taking the load of powering the hard drive off the PSU, it would only reboot about once a day.

I have a use for an eSATA enclosure anyway, and will try this again when I get one. Until I take one of these recapped, 2TB upgraded, lifetime units and flip it on ebay, my entire hobby budget is kind of tied up at the moment.


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## jmbach

I can see a single hard drive hooked up that way, but how do you have 2 drives hooked up at the same time.


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## CrashHD

Using a secondary power supply for the second drive, unplugging the eSATA connector on the back panel from the motherboard, and instead plugging a standard SATA cable into the 2nd eSATA port on the motherboard, and using that.

As a last shot in the dark, I triggered a kickstart 57 last night. It ran overnight, and produced no results. I removed the second hard drive, rebooted, went through the "external storage missing" process, and it is has just now finished booting up and is at the Tivo Central screen, running solely on the 2TB internal drive.

I'm open to suggestions. Right now, the next thing I think to try is to add a 2TB external to the 160GB original internal. This won't break 2TB, but will at least confirm I can use the 2TB drive when connected in this manner.


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## jmbach

The other KS to try is 58. I agree that we need to check that adding a drive that way will work.


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## backyard

I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. I recently used jmfs to successfully upgrade a Premiere to 2Tb.

Now I want to upgrade my TiVo HD S3(652) to a larger drive. It has already been upgraded to 1Tb. If I use WinMFS/expand/supersize and a new WD30EURX 3Tb drive will I:

A. Still have only 1Tb of usable space
B. Expand to 2Tb of usable space
C. Expand beyond 2Tb of usable space, maybe 3Tb?
D. Screw up the new drive
E. Other?

As much as I've read here I still can't predict what will happen.

Thanks for any advice.


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## jmbach

Before we go further, how did you upgrade the original drive? Did you use WinMFS or JMFS.


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## backyard

WinMFS_beta_9


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## CrashHD

Presently, I have not seen anyone get any Series3 model past 2TiB. 

I think there are two expansion options with winMFS. One is to limit the expansion partition to 1TB in size, the other is to extend all the way to the end of the drive. The first option would not give you a substantial increase in usable space, and the second would likely be too much.

I cannot say for certain, but I think possibly a 652 box may still have a limitation of 2TB of MFS address space, despite the fact it has a 64 bit MFS. There are more knowledgeable folks than me on this board with regard to that subject, and hopefully one of them will respond.


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## jmbach

I am not sure anybody has tried to get beyond 2TB on a S3 HD yet. A S3 OLED cannot as I personally verified that. It can boot a drive larger that 2TB but the image on that drive has to be 2TB or less. 

Since you already expanded with WinMFS, you now have 15 partitions. Expanding again with WinMFS, I think, will expand the 15th partition up to 2TB and not give you another pair of partitions giving you a total of 17 partitions. If it does I expect the TiVo to divorce the partitions. If you use JMFS to expand, then you would have 16 partitions. It might be okay with that, I am not sure. The S4 series are not happy with 16 partitions and they divorce it. 
If the above doesn't work then I think the safest way to expand further would be to coalesce your current partition 14 and 15 into partition 14. Let the TiVo divorce partition 15. Then expand with JMFS to either 2TB or 3TB.


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## backyard

Thanks to you both. Trying to get to 3TB just may be too technical for me. I'll be better off to get a 2TB drive and use the 3TB elsewhere. Thanks again.


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## c-collins

I think this would be your best shot at getting a 3T or 4T drive in to a TiVoHD:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=513785


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## Cybernut

c-collins said:


> I think this would be your best shot at getting a 3T or 4T drive in to a TiVoHD:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=513785


That thread is about Tivo Premieres (Series 4).


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## murryamorris

I'll test a 3TB drive in my TivoHD. I have a 1TB in it currently and I just did a WinMFS truncated backup. I happen to have a new 3TB WD green drive that was going to be used for a Roamio I ordered but I repaired the bad cap in my S3 OLED so I sent back the Roamio to pay for some medical bills. I'll let you know if it works when I can get time to do it.


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## jmbach

Is the 1TB drive native to the HD ( you have an HD XL) or one that was expanded from a smaller image. If it is the latter, then some prep work will need to be done based on how you expanded it the first time.


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## murryamorris

It was expanded from using WinMFS. What do I need to do to prep it? So doing a truncated backup and restoring won't be enough? Do I need to use JMFS? If there is a specific thread, just point me there and I can read up on it. Thanks for letting me know before I tried it.


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## jmbach

Since you expanded with WinMFS, you can restore to the 3TB drive that truncated image. Next I would put it in the TiVo to make sure it boots and operational. Then take the drive out. (BTW the best way to shut down the TiVo is go into the menu and choose to restart the TiVo and pull the plug as soon as you see the front LED flash indicating it is starting to boot back up) The next step would be to coalesce partition 14 and 15 into 14. You can read how to do it in my 4TB DIY writeup. If you have questions let me know. Once that is coalesced, put the drive back in the TiVo and let it divorce as it is getting rid of partition 15 information in the header. Once you verify it is operational, then remove the drive and use JMFS to expand. This will add back a partition 15 that is 2TB in length. Put it back in the TiVo and let us know how it goes.


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## murryamorris

Thanks for the info. I saw that 4TB thread so I'll look it over. I looked at my old .tbk original is from 10-11-2007 and that may actually be my original backup so I am pretty sure it was WinMFS. I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. May take me through the weekend to read up on the threads but should be educational. Last time I did all the upgrading was back in 2008 so I'm catching up again.

Edit: I should be going to sleep (work nights) but thought I'd do a bit more. I restored the current backup with 11.0m from the 1TB I just made on 3/19/14. Dropped it in the Tivo and it rebooted once, then went to green screen for repair. I pulled it back out and decided to try my old backup from 10/11/2007 that has 9.1 on it and it booted fine and I'm now connecting to Tivo to get it updated to the new version. I'll see how that goes. In WinMFS, it only showed 14 partitions but maybe the 15th is added after booting in the Tivo. I'll see when it is done. Should probably work on this after I sleep.

I think I read that JMFS can only add a 2TB partition so if this was my original image, I wouldn't get to 3TB. I'm off to sleep. I'll need to deal with this when I can think straight!

Here was the map from the first restore from 3/19:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 Apple_Free Extra [email protected] ( 2.0T)


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## jmbach

In this case the 14th partition is a spacer and will have to be deleted if using JMFS as it does not handle Apple_Free partitions. If you are wanting to use the full 3TB you will have to start with a 1TB image. Because of the limitations of the partition map, the max partition size is 2TB.


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## murryamorris

jmbach said:


> In this case the 14th partition is a spacer and will have to be deleted if using JMFS as it does not handle Apple_Free partitions. If you are wanting to use the full 3TB you will have to start with a 1TB image. Because of the limitations of the partition map, the max partition size is 2TB.


Thanks again for the info. I figured that out after after messing with it and seeing the partition map only using 2TB for that last one. It turns out my old 1TB is dying and was getting corrupted. I had all kinds of issues and the 1TB also gave me green screen but did repair enough to boot back up. I think that hosed my backups so I'm now adding a 2TB to get it running. I'll try again with the 3TB after this if Still have a 1TB backup that works. I had to go back to my original backup to get the 2TB to boot without errors. Looks like I still have a lot of reading to do.


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## jmbach

If you tell WinMFS to limit the expansion to 1TB on your 2TB drive, you can backup that image and restore it to the 3TB drive. That will give you the ability to use the whole 3TB drive.


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## murryamorris

It looks like there is a problem with the HD electronics, not just the drive, although the drive is back in it and boots up. It is failing, easy to hear but maybe it will hang in there for a while. I had a similar issue with my OLED but the HD doesn't appear to have any bad capacitors so I may just replace them all when I can find time. 

I tried a 1TB, 2TB, and the initial 3TB but none of them were successful, even to just copy the images without any expansion. Looks like I'll have to do some work on this one before I go back to testing the 3TB. Until then I'll use it for one of our computers. Maybe I should have just kept the Roamio, it would have saved me a lot of time. 

I just put the spare 2TB in my OLED and it went easy and quick, just expanded and supersized after testing in the Tivo and no problems. At least I have 318 hours on that now.

I don't know how some of you guys find the time to figure all this out.


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## unitron

As I understand it, you have to be running at least 11.0h for the HD to handle a partition larger than 1.2TB, which was the barrier to using a 2TB drive.

If you use WinMFS to restore an HD image, it'll put 160GB worth of partitions on the drive.

If you allow it to expand, but tell it to limit partition size to no larger than 1.2TB, I'm pretty sure that you'll still have an Apple Free partition on the drive beyond that 1.2TB partition.


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## murryamorris

I had 11.0m on the 1TB images. The only backup I got to actually boot without locking up was a 9.1 old backup. I was going to update it to 11.0m but the connection will not go through. I spent about 6 hours trying different current restores and trying to update the old one. None of these were ever expanded. I just restored and was testing them before expanding. I have one more thing to try before I either replace the caps or sell it for parts and get a Roamio in a few months when I have the money again.

And yes, I believe it did show the large free partition the one time I tested expansion and limited it to 1TB. That locked up also but I figured it would since the unexpanded ones did also.

Thanks for the info!


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## jmbach

I haven't tried this since TiVo did something with their servers to fix the random reboot issues for the Roamios, but when I tried to use kickstart codes to update the software on my OLED S3 I would get this error.










The only way I could update the OS was to let it boot up and force a connection several times (3 to 5) and then reboot the TiVo to apply the update.

I don't know if this was your issue or if you had something else come up.

(BTW I did not get this error on my S4)


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## murryamorris

Mine is different. I don't get that error and if I do a network diagnostic check (or whatever that is called - I'm at work now). It goes through the entire process and says "done" under connection and doesn't fail there. Only when I do the forced connection to update and it gets to the section where it says "downloading", runs for a while and appears to be working then will say failed or lost connection. It also is taking much longer at the previous steps than my other Tivo bu might just be the difference in the units.

I pulled my OLED 1TB drive (WD Blue), which is almost new as I just repaired the unit. I upgraded it to 2TB and am currently writing zeros to totally clear the 1TB. Should be done when I get off work. I'm going to run WinMFS off another computer to be sure it's not flaking out on that system. I'll try the 1TB image to that drive and see what happens. If still no go, I may try to mfscopy the old drive because if it can make it, the Tivo might be able to repair it if there are some errors. It did successfully repair the old drive when I put it back in. If that works, I can image the new 1TB drive and then work on the 3TB from that. I could at least then see if the 1TB to 3TB works, even if the network connections don't work on it. It may take me until my vacation in May, but I'll keep trying.

EDIT: Things are looking slightly better. When I got home, the zero write on the newer 1TB was done. I restored the 1TB image from last week of the failing drive and decided to just mfsadd after that instead of putting in the Tivo then doing. It booted up all the way to the startup where the Tivo guy video came on and about halfway through it froze the video, rebooted and has now been on green repair for half an hour. Making me think it will do the repair and I may have a good drive to image a 1TB off of.

So now, I am going to write zero's to the 3TB to clear it and start from there if the 1TB does actually work. Off to sleep....


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## murryamorris

Finally, it is working again. The new 1TB drive repaired and I reconnected to my wireless network adapter. It is transferring a show from the other Tivo and a forced connection worked and is loading updates.

Here is the new drives msfinfo. It looks like I'll be able to work on testing the 3TB after all. Just have to go back and read to figure out the easiest route.

Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1950871552

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=a79b745a logstamp=40095193 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=11960320 checksum=9f292806 logstamp=40095428 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=89224 checksum=60eee7a5 logstamp=40096146 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=83de9a9a logstamp=40095193 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=13414400 checksum=49d981af logstamp=40095428 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=284192 checksum=1a92884c logstamp=40095193 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1950871551 zone_size=1640140800 min(chunk)=20480
free=225587200 checksum=c9951228 logstamp=40095428 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.1G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 13 % Free
Software: 11.0m-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


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## jmbach

The easiest way is to coalesce partition 15 and 14 into 14, boot the drive in the TiVo to divorce partition 15 (in name only), and then run JMFS to expand again. There is a Linux script from marwatk that will allow you to copy and rearrange the partition locations to make the drive closer to a TiVo layout by placing the OS at the end of the 1TB image. The coalesce script will not work because it is made to allow for partition 14 on the S4 which is not a MFS partition but an sqlite partition. If you use his script, the partition order you want is 1,11,12,13,14,15,2,3,4,5 6,7,8,9,10. After you copy and rearrange the partitions, put it in the TiVo to make sure it boots. Then a manual coalesce, boot in TiVo, expand with JMFS, and back in the TiVo to see if it works.


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## murryamorris

Found the info on the scripts. I'll attempt when I go through the info and have time. Thanks again!


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## murryamorris

Tivo is locked in a reboot cycle again and lost scheduling last time I had it running. Did a boot on the 1TB that had been working to test it again because of the scheduling issue. Thought it might bring it back up. I'm putting this Tivo aside for a while. 3 days of messing with it are enough for now.


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## jmbach

Which drive is it doing the reboot cycle on?


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## murryamorris

jmbach said:


> Which drive is it doing the reboot cycle on?


The new 1TB that I rplaced the failing one with. I saw the scheduling had not updated, even though the download said it was successful.


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## jmbach

Might want to try another image on the drive. Also how OS the TiVo connecting to the service. Wired, wireless, POTS.


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## jmbach

Also sometimes you will need to force a connection several times. The other thing I have seen is that you need to delete the scheduling first and then force connect several times.


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## murryamorris

Tried both wireless and wired directly to router. Have done multiple images over the past week and many reboots. With the different issues, I will probably replace the caps to be sure it's not that but April is hectic with work and otfamily issues so will probably be May when I am on vacation before I do more work on this one. Thanks for the ideas!


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## zechman

Well, since murrayamorris is busy, I'll throw my hat into the ring.

I have a 652160 (2 of them, actually) upgraded from 160G to 1TB using WinMFS several years ago. On of them has started showing indications that the drive is going to leave this world soon, so I replaced it with a 2TB drive and migrated everything over using the current version of WinMFS. It expanded the size of my existing 14/15 pair to the end of the drive, and everything seems to be working okay. I'm showing 318 hours of HD now.

So now that's got me thinking...could I start from a 1TB 658000 base image and expand to 3TB (adding a new 14/15) that way? (If so, can someone point me in the direction of a 658000 image? Or a method for constructing a similar partition layout?)

If I did the same thing I did with a 2TB drive, but used a 4TB drive instead, would WinMFS expand 14/15 to the end of the drive or would the partitions be limited to 2TB?

Also, since I still have an empty partition 16, can I use JMFS to add yet another partition beyond? (I think I could fill a single 4TB drive that way.)

Do we know what the upper limit on total addressable size on TiVo HD's with current software is? (I have v11.0m now.)

I'm willing to get a 3TB (or 4TB) drive and experiment some, but I don't want to re-cover ground of what's already known about the 65xxxx's (nor waste time trying something that everyone but me knows is impossible).

Thanks in advance.

--Dwayne


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## jmbach

Here is what I know. I have an OLED S3. I placed my 2TB image on a 3TB drive and it booted and ran fine. Problem going any further with an OLED S3 is that it has only a 32bit MFS which can only address 2TB. The HD series S3 have a 64bit MFS which can address a much larger size. 
It stands to reason that it is very likely that we might be able to create a single 3TB drive for the HD series. 
WinMFS does not like drives over 2TB in my testing. So you would take a 1TB HD XL image copy it to a 3TB drive. Boot the drive in the TiVo to make sure it works. Then use JMFS to expand it to 3TB. Put it back in the TiVo make sure it works and then record everything you can to fill the drive up and make sure it holds all 3TB of recordings without failing. 
If you are using a 1TB image that was expanded from a smaller image, you will have to copy the image to a 3TB drive, then coalesce partitions 14 and 15 into 14, boot the drive in the TiVo to divorce partition 15. Then use JMFS to expand the drive to 3TB. Put in the TiVo and record everything you can to fill up the space to make sure all 3TB is accessible.


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## unitron

zechman said:


> Well, since murrayamorris is busy, I'll throw my hat into the ring.
> 
> I have a 652160 (2 of them, actually) upgraded from 160G to 1TB using WinMFS several years ago. On of them has started showing indications that the drive is going to leave this world soon, so I replaced it with a 2TB drive and migrated everything over using the current version of WinMFS. It expanded the size of my existing 14/15 pair to the end of the drive, and everything seems to be working okay. I'm showing 318 hours of HD now.
> 
> So now that's got me thinking...could I start from a 1TB 658000 base image and expand to 3TB (adding a new 14/15) that way? (If so, can someone point me in the direction of a 658000 image? Or a method for constructing a similar partition layout?)
> 
> If I did the same thing I did with a 2TB drive, but used a 4TB drive instead, would WinMFS expand 14/15 to the end of the drive or would the partitions be limited to 2TB?
> 
> Also, since I still have an empty partition 16, can I use JMFS to add yet another partition beyond? (I think I could fill a single 4TB drive that way.)
> 
> Do we know what the upper limit on total addressable size on TiVo HD's with current software is? (I have v11.0m now.)
> 
> I'm willing to get a 3TB (or 4TB) drive and experiment some, but I don't want to re-cover ground of what's already known about the 65xxxx's (nor waste time trying something that everyone but me knows is impossible).
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> --Dwayne


I can hook you up with a 658 image that I got from somebody back in December of 2011, but I don't know when they actually made it, so I don't know what version it is other than that it's older than 11.0m

But even sticking it on a non-expanded 1TB drive, I wouldn't have any faith that it would work out in the long run on a 652. It'll boot, but the first time it "phones home" and reports a 652 TSN and some version of the 658 software who knows what confusion may result.

I probably shouldn't tempt you into likely disaster, so on your head be it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/658000.tbk

If it were me, I'd use WinMFS to copy a 652 image to a 2TB and then expand into the extra space as a separate step, and then use jmfs to copy it to a 3TB and add a 16th partition, and try that and forget about a 4TB for now, although I have no way of knowing if the 3TB would function properly.

I think the use of a 658 image (massaged with lots of voodoo) on a 652 drive was done prior to 11.0h when the TiVo couldn't handle a partition bigger than 1.2TB, which now it can.


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## zechman

Well, here's some follow-up:

Evidently, my issues with crashing were not (or at least not entirely) due to a failing HD. I was continuing to get crashes and reboots on the 2TB drive. 

(And AAMOF, the 2TB drive was a modern WD "Green" drive, and I DID have to use WDIDLE3 to kill the auto-parking. Before I did that, it was exhibiting the telltale problems with failed soft-reboots, where hard-reboots worked fine. WDIDLE3 fixed that.)

Also, as a test, I swapped the power supplies of my two TiVo HD's, and the problem did NOT migrate to the other unit along with the PS, so it's not that either.

But along the way, I did learn a few interesting things.

I made an image onto a Seagate 4TB video drive with WinMFS, and it's running on that right now. Fewer crashes now, but not none.

SO . . . a TiVo HD will boot and run off of a 4TB drive. Since it worked with a 3TB, I expected this, but until you try it, you never really know for sure.

One of my first tests was letting WinMFS make as large a partition as it could, which turned out to be precisely 2TiB. This gave me an image that was essentially 2TiB + 160GB--a tiny bit OVER 2TiB.

The TiVo HD would boot, go to green repair screen, run for a few minutes, then reboot, and repeat that cycle over and over.

SO . . . I don't think a TiVo HD on current software can address more than 2TiB of total space. 

I have not yet tried attaching an external drive to exceed 2TiB of space, but I have my doubts that it will work. (Not to mention that any test I do means many hours of down-time to make a backup!)

If anyone has any expert opinions on whether I should be more optimistic or pessimistic about external drives, let me know. If it DOES work, then the procedure for combining them back into a single large drive might be an option as well.)

Thoughts?

--Dwayne


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## jmbach

Try the test again using JMFS to expand the drive. I am not sure if WinMFS properly modifies the MFS structure for over 2TB storage. I know JMFS does as I have taken the Premiere to 4TB. If it does the same using JMFS to expand, then I would agree that taking the TiVo HD line over 2TB is unlikely.


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## zechman

So . . . in the end I gave up.

I still think that over 2TiB on a TiVo HD is not going to work, and some other research I've done in the mean time seems to support that.

But the real reason I gave up was that my problems with spontaneous reboots were with the system board (not the drive, nor my power supply), and it just was NOT acceptable in the long run to have a TiVo that would randomly reboot 3-4 times per day--often in the middle of an important recording.

I now have a Roamio Plus, and migrated the 4TB drive to it, with MANY MANY thanks to telemark.

And . . . MANY MANY thanks to everyone on this thread, particularly jmbach and unitron for their technical advice; to CrashHD for getting the conversation started; and to murryamorris for leading the way at actually trying it out.

--Dwayne


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## unitron

zechman said:


> So . . . in the end I gave up.
> 
> I still think that over 2TiB on a TiVo HD is not going to work, and some other research I've done in the mean time seems to support that.
> 
> But the real reason I gave up was that my problems with spontaneous reboots were with the system board (not the drive, nor my power supply), and it just was NOT acceptable in the long run to have a TiVo that would randomly reboot 3-4 times per day--often in the middle of an important recording.
> 
> I now have a Roamio Plus, and migrated the 4TB drive to it, with MANY MANY thanks to telemark.
> 
> And . . . MANY MANY thanks to everyone on this thread, particularly jmbach and unitron for their technical advice; to CrashHD for getting the conversation started; and to murryamorris for leading the way at actually trying it out.
> 
> --Dwayne


How did you establish that the HDs had good power supplies?


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## zechman

unitron said:


> How did you establish that the HDs had good power supplies?


I have two TiVo HD's (purchased at the same time, even), and I pulled both power supplies and swapped them.
The symptoms that I'd been seeing on my "bad" unit stayed on that same unit, and didn't migrate over to the other along with the power supply. The "good" one continued to hum along reliably since then on the swapped-in power supply for a couple of months now...and still is.

--Dwayne


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## nooneuknow

zechman said:


> I have two TiVo HD's (purchased at the same time, even), and I pulled both power supplies and swapped them.
> The symptoms that I'd been seeing on my "bad" unit stayed on that same unit, and didn't migrate over to the other along with the power supply. The "good" one continued to hum along reliably since then on the swapped-in power supply for a couple of months now...and still is.
> 
> --Dwayne


Be prepared to get told that's not enough of a test. I'll let unitron have at you on that. He has links to pictures of what should be visually inspected. It is true that it's a good time to think about replacing the PS filtering capacitors, even if they appear fine with visual inspection. It's an ounce of prevention...pound of cure scenario, but still your decision to make.


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## unitron

zechman said:


> I have two TiVo HD's (purchased at the same time, even), and I pulled both power supplies and swapped them.
> The symptoms that I'd been seeing on my "bad" unit stayed on that same unit, and didn't migrate over to the other along with the power supply. The "good" one continued to hum along reliably since then on the swapped-in power supply for a couple of months now...and still is.
> 
> --Dwayne


If you swapped power supplies and the symptoms didn't follow, then likely something else is to blame for those symptoms.

It wouldn't hurt to check those power supplies with a voltmeter, and perhaps tweak the adjustable resistor if the readings are just a hair low, but if that's enough to cause problems it could be something on the motherboard is going bad and that would explain a greater than usual intolerance for less than perfect power.

(It still wouldn't be a bad idea to replace "the usual suspects" capacitor-wise, as preventative maintenance sometime when the TiVo is going to be opened up anyway.)


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