# Plex on the Bolt after recent update



## shupp872

Like others, it would seem, I am having an issue with Plex on my recently updated Bolt. I am able to connect to and browse my Plex server, but I am unable to play any files.

Does anybody have any solution to this?

Some one was told by TiVo that the Plex now connects over the WAN??? Is this really true? Are many others having similar issues?


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## Kremlar

Plex issue here as well. Connects to my server and I can browse my movies but they will not play. I have not opened ports to stream outside of my LAN.

Why in the world would they make a change like that?


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## shupp872

It makes the fact that the bolt can play 1080p in original bitrate useless, since most people only have Plex setup to stream remotely at 720p 4mbps. We are back at only have the same quality as the Roamio and minis, if it will stream at all. (subject to your upload speeds, i suppose)


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## Hilbe

Plex not working for me either after update. Neither is Amazon Prime.


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## SolomonJ

My Plex does share outside my network. I tested in on my iPhone over cellular. You get a warning that streaming outside the home requires a subscription ($4.99/mo) or a one-time charge in-app of $4.99 to activate that single device. Obviously the TiVo app doesn't support this one-time purchase option, so I'm guessing it's working for those who pay for a subscription to Plex and not working for those who don't. 

If that proves to be true, it's pretty crappy to have to pay for Plex Remote Access capabilities to stream within your own home.


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## shupp872

I subscribe to Plex Pass and mine no longer works on the Bolt, so I don't think that the subscription is the solution to the recent problem.

And by the way, you should be able to stream your own content to your iPhone without subscribing to Plex Pass, at least i could before i starting paying for the subscription. Maybe it has changed.


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## Hilbe

shupp872 said:


> I subscribe to Plex Pass and mine no longer works on the Bolt, so I don't think that the subscription is the solution to the recent problem.
> 
> And by the way, you should be able to stream your own content to your iPhone without subscribing to Plex Pass, at least i could before i starting paying for the subscription. Maybe it has changed.


I am a Plex Pass sub as well. I can't get TiVo Plex to work after the update. I get a "Unable to connect to a server." message. Rebooted the box, no success. Almost like it has no network connection.


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## Steve28

Not working here either.... "Cannot connect to server"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ebr206

Sorry if this is a stupid question but did you guys restart your box?

My Plex was doing the same thing. I restarted my Bolt. The update then finished installing and everything worked fine.


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## SolomonJ

shupp872 said:


> I subscribe to Plex Pass and mine no longer works on the Bolt, so I don't think that the subscription is the solution to the recent problem.
> 
> And by the way, you should be able to stream your own content to your iPhone without subscribing to Plex Pass, at least i could before i starting paying for the subscription. Maybe it has changed.


OK, thanks! I am likely incorrect then. Still having the issue even after restarting the box. I wonder if the Plex Server version makes a difference? I'm on the most recent, version 0.9.12.19.


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## aaronwt

I wasn't on the most recent version when I tried it last night and streamed to the Bolt. But then I updated Plex and it still worked. The only issue I noticed was that the 4K files were being output in 2K from the Bolt. The Roku4 output in 4K for those same files. The 2K content I tried worked with Plex before and after the update on the Bolt without any issues. And I had tried those same 2K files a few months ago when I first installed Plex on that PC.

I had changed my options to stream at the original bitrate/quality for my 4K devices.


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## rsday75

I tried Plex last night to watch the Grinch for the kids. Everything seems to be working fine just like before. I have restarted the BOLT, though.


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## Kremlar

I played around with it a bit more this AM. It's very flaky. Some videos will start streaming while others will not. Also, after trying to play a few videos Plex sometimes crashes back to the main TiVo menu. Plex on my Minis seems fine.

Hope they fix this quick!


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## TiVoMargret

If Plex isn't streaming for you on BOLT, please send email to [email protected] with the subject "Plex on BOLT" and include the following information:

- your TSN
- describe what you are experiencing, and if this is new behavior

--Margret


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## Kremlar

Email sent.


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## Hilbe

Email sent as well. I opened a ticket last night since nothing was working. Amazon started working today. Plex still is down.


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## jth tv

Anyone know if FLAC music files are being transcoded ? When playing a song in FLAC format, in the servers Plex media Manager, alerts, Flex for Tivo, i, audio transcode ().


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## shupp872

Email sent....


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## shupp872

SolomonJ said:


> OK, thanks! I am likely incorrect then. Still having the issue even after restarting the box. I wonder if the Plex Server version makes a difference? I'm on the most recent, version 0.9.12.19.


I restarted my Bolt this evening (additional restart after the box restarted during the updated), and now Plex appears to be working. Granted, I only tried three titles, but all three are playing in 1080p, in original bitrate. not sure if it is a fix, I haven't tested enough to see if it still crashes, or if there are titles that won't play.


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## Steve28

Email sent. I even tried restarting my bolt and still nothing - just the "Unable to connect to a server" screen.


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## Hilbe

Steve28 said:


> Email sent. I even tried restarting my bolt and still nothing - just the "Unable to connect to a server" screen.


Same as me. I can't get into the app. Out of curiousity, what router do you have?


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## SolomonJ

Me, too. Can't find the server. I'm using a very new Apple Airport Time Capsule 3TB (which is an awesome router, btw).


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## Hilbe

I have an OnHub. Rules out isolated to 1 router.


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## Steve28

Hilbe said:


> Same as me. I can't get into the app. Out of curiousity, what router do you have?


TP-Link Archer C7

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## daphatman

Has anyone heard from TiVoMargret?


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## Hilbe

daphatman said:


> Has anyone heard from TiVoMargret?


Not yet. Sent pictures on mine


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## epstewart

I just began using Plex because this thread alerted me to it. On my Bolt, Plex seems to work OK.


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## shupp872

*Update:* Trying Plex again today on the Bolt. Some movies play others won't start. I get the Plex error "The movie took too long to start" which I have never gotten before. I was trying to figure out if has something to do with the format / encoding of the movie and or audio. It is almost as if the Plex server is trying to determine the capabilities of the Bolt so it knows if it has to transcode anything or not, and it doesn't get a response back from the Bolt, so it never starts to play this movie. Just a speculation.

The movie that won't play has LPCM audio (Cars), but other movies with LPCM play just fine. I haven't checked all my movies. but so far that is the only one that won't play on the Bolt. Prior to the update, it would play without issues.

Also, I thought maybe it was a bitrate problem, but Cars is not the highest bitrate movie. I have higher bitrate movies that play just fine as well. So from my little bit of research, I can't find a pattern. Cars will play on the Roamio, and my minis (albeit at 720p 4 mbps).

However, I do get a lot of Plex crashes back to the TiVo page, mostly while browsing my folders in Plex. Rather annoying.


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## Kremlar

shupp872 said:


> *Update:* Trying Plex again today on the Bolt. Some movies play others won't start. I get the Plex error "The movie took too long to start" which I have never gotten before. I was trying to figure out if has something to do with the format / encoding of the movie and or audio. It is almost as if the Plex server is trying to determine the capabilities of the Bolt so it knows if it has to transcode anything or not, and it doesn't get a response back from the Bolt, so it never starts to play this movie. Just a speculation.
> 
> The movie that won't play has LPCM audio (Cars), but other movies with LPCM play just fine. I haven't checked all my movies. but so far that is the only one that won't play on the Bolt. Prior to the update, it would play without issues.
> 
> Also, I thought maybe it was a bitrate problem, but Cars is not the highest bitrate movie. I have higher bitrate movies that play just fine as well. So from my little bit of research, I can't find a pattern. Cars will play on the Roamio, and my minis (albeit at 720p 4 mbps).
> 
> However, I do get a lot of Plex crashes back to the TiVo page, mostly while browsing my folders in Plex. Rather annoying.


Pretty much same here. Can't find a rhyme or reason why some play and not others. Very annoying.


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## SolomonJ

Just discovered that Plex on the Bolt apparently uses DLNA during initial connection. My Minis worked without it. Turning that on in my server settings allowed Bolt Plex to connect for the first time!!!!

However, I'm now seeing some titles not playing on the Bolt that work fine on Mini and all other platforms I've tested. Maybe it's using DLNA for playback, too?


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## Hilbe

SolomonJ said:


> Just discovered that Plex on the Bolt apparently uses DLNA during initial connection. My Minis worked without it. Turning that on in my server settings allowed Bolt Plex to connect for the first time!!!!
> 
> However, I'm now seeing some titles not playing on the Bolt that work fine on Mini and all other platforms I've tested. Maybe it's using DLNA for playback, too?


My DNLA was on already. I disabled and enabled again, still can't get past "unable to connect to a server" message.


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## Steve28

Hilbe said:


> My DNLA was on already. I disabled and enabled again, still can't get past "unable to connect to a server" message.


Ditto

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## epstewart

SolomonJ said:


> Just discovered that Plex on the Bolt apparently uses DLNA during initial connection. My Minis worked without it. Turning that on in my server settings allowed Bolt Plex to connect for the first time!!!!
> 
> However, I'm now seeing some titles not playing on the Bolt that work fine on Mini and all other platforms I've tested. Maybe it's using DLNA for playback, too?


What is DLNA, anyway?


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## Steve28

epstewart said:


> What is DLNA, anyway?


It's Digital Living Network Association... it's a group of companies got together to make a set of standards for network communication, file formats, etc. so that if your device conforms to them, you will be able to communicate with other devices that conform as well.

So for example, if you have a DLNA capable TV and a networked hard drive that also supports DLNA, then the hard drive can make folders available that the the TV will be able to see and play movies from.

It's very bare bones, at least in all instances I have seen. Think of if Plex just showed you a list of files in a folder called "Movies" with no other info.


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## apw2607

Hilbe said:


> Plex not working for me either after update. Neither is Amazon Prime.


Yes, Amazon is broken for me if I have 1080/24 pass thru selected, I just get a bright red or pink screen when I attempt to play a Amazon video. It's the hdmi handshaking that's broken all of this. It wasn't ideal prior to the update. Now it's even worse.

I never had these issues with the roamio. The bolt is definitely a step backwards in that regard.


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## Hilbe

apw2607 said:


> Yes, Amazon is broken for me if I have 1080/24 pass thru selected, I just get a bright red or pink screen when I attempt to play a Amazon video. It's the hdmi handshaking that's broken all of this. It wasn't ideal prior to the update. Now it's even worse.
> 
> I never had these issues with the roamio. The bolt is definitely a step backwards in that regard.


I'm getting HDMI errors on live TV frequently too. Not sure how that makes plex unable to find my server though ...


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## epstewart

apw2607 said:


> Yes, Amazon is broken for me if I have 1080/24 pass thru selected, I just get a bright red or pink screen when I attempt to play a Amazon video. It's the hdmi handshaking that's broken all of this. It wasn't ideal prior to the update. Now it's even worse.
> 
> I never had these issues with the roamio. The bolt is definitely a step backwards in that regard.


HDMI handshaking is very likely the source of your problem, I'd think. Are you able to try using a different HDMI input on your TV, just as an experiment? If it makes a positive difference, at least you would have more information about the situation.

You say you have "1080p/24 (pass-thru only)" selected as a video output format. So you're not using the Bolt's "automatic" video output format option, right? Does your problem go away if you switch to "Keep automatic settings"? On my Bolt, that seems to give me "1080p (Automatic)", which equates to "1080p (60 fps)". Also, do you have any other video output formats besides "1080p/24 (pass-thru only)" selected? And what is your reason for using "1080p/24 (pass-thru only)"?


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## jcthorne

While plex still mostly works on my Bolt. It now frequently locks up and drops me back to Tivo central. It NEVER did that before this update.

Also, as of last night, Netflix has ceased working. I can browse but once the video starts streaming I get about 3 to 5 seconds of video and sound and then it stops with a bright red screen. My only option is back to tivo central.

This update has borked the Bolt pretty bad on multiple fronts and I have not found ANYTHING that was fixed.

We need to start pushing Tivo to take the Bolts back to the previous revision until they can get these far ranging and show stopper bugs fixed. If my Bolt acted this badly on day one I would have returned it.


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## Kremlar

jcthorne said:


> While plex still mostly works on my Bolt. It now frequently locks up and drops me back to Tivo central. It NEVER did that before this update.
> 
> Also, as of last night, Netflix has ceased working. I can browse but once the video starts streaming I get about 3 to 5 seconds of video and sound and then it stops with a bright red screen. My only option is back to tivo central.
> 
> This update has borked the Bolt pretty bad on multiple fronts and I have not found ANYTHING that was fixed.
> 
> We need to start pushing Tivo to take the Bolts back to the previous revision until they can get these far ranging and show stopper bugs fixed. If my Bolt acted this badly on day one I would have returned it.


+1

Did they even test this "update" before release??


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> While plex still mostly works on my Bolt. It now frequently locks up and drops me back to Tivo central. It NEVER did that before this update.
> 
> Also, as of last night, Netflix has ceased working. I can browse but once the video starts streaming I get about 3 to 5 seconds of video and sound and then it stops with a bright red screen. My only option is back to tivo central.
> 
> This update has borked the Bolt pretty bad on multiple fronts and I have not found ANYTHING that was fixed.
> 
> We need to start pushing Tivo to take the Bolts back to the previous revision until they can get these far ranging and show stopper bugs fixed. If my Bolt acted this badly on day one I would have returned it.


Contacted TiVo Margret yet?

[email protected]

I have no personal beef with the new update, but the only benefit seems to be the SD to HD function, so I think TiVo should roll it back.

The dropout from real video to a pink or red screen does sound like an HDMI handshaking issue that somehow gets transmitted back to Plex on the TiVo and maybe Plex on the server. The software gurus at TiVo HQ need to hear about this. Just going thru customer service reps ain't enough ...


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## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> Contacted TiVo Margret yet?
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> I have no personal beef with the new update, but the only benefit seems to be the SD to HD function, so I think TiVo should roll it back.
> 
> The dropout from real video to a pink or red screen does sound like an HDMI handshaking issue that somehow gets transmitted back to Plex on the TiVo and maybe Plex on the server. The software gurus at TiVo HQ need to hear about this. Just going thru customer service reps ain't enough ...


Yes. I have been in contact with Margret. No word on these two issues. She did get me a fix for the prior Netflix lockup on exit.


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## daphatman

It amazes me how little tech companies know about managing the customer experience. To push out a product or update prematurely does more damage than making us wait. I was a big supporter of the Bolt and TiVo and encouraged many of my friends to jump on the bandwagon as well. Then, reality started to set in. First, I wasn't happy that OOH streaming wasn't available day one, with no good indication when it would be ready.  And now, this upgrade killing Plex, and apparently creating other issues...

Now, perhaps things will get fixed. But, I will never again be an early adopter of any TiVo products. And my recommendation to others will be wait until they work out the bugs.

TiVo, with a bit more patience and due diligence on your part, in my opinion the Bolt could have been a home run. But now, after further review... we may be looking at a long foul ball.

I hope you realize you need to kick this into recovery mode big time. Where are the updates on the status of the fix? What do you think is the problem? The key to managing these sorts of problems is communications.


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## apw2607

epstewart said:


> HDMI handshaking is very likely the source of your problem, I'd think. Are you able to try using a different HDMI input on your TV, just as an experiment? If it makes a positive difference, at least you would have more information about the situation.
> 
> You say you have "1080p/24 (pass-thru only)" selected as a video output format. So you're not using the Bolt's "automatic" video output format option, right? Does your problem go away if you switch to "Keep automatic settings"? On my Bolt, that seems to give me "1080p (Automatic)", which equates to "1080p (60 fps)". Also, do you have any other video output formats besides "1080p/24 (pass-thru only)" selected? And what is your reason for using "1080p/24 (pass-thru only)"?


Yes, I wasn't very clear. I have 1080p (60 fps) and 1080p/24 selected. If i deselect 1080p/24 then the problems go away. Prior to the update 1080p/24 worked nearly 95% of the time.

My bolt is connectd to my denon avr 4311ci and then one hdmi output goes to the tv. The other goes to the projector. The issue is exhibited on both displays.

No other video source device connected exhibit this issue ... Such as the oppo. 103d bd player.


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## epstewart

apw2607 said:


> Yes, I wasn't very clear. I have 1080p (60 fps) and 1080p/24 selected. If i deselect 1080p/24 then the problems go away. Prior to the update 1080p/24 worked nearly 95% of the time.
> 
> My bolt is connectd to my denon avr 4311ci and then one hdmi output goes to the tv. The other goes to the projector. The issue is exhibited on both displays.
> 
> No other video source device connected exhibit this issue ... Such as the oppo. 103d bd player.


What source video format(s) does the problem arise with? All, or just one or two? I'm thinking the problem may have something to do with format conversions. If 1080p/24 is active on the TiVo, maybe Plex on the server or Plex on the TiVo (or both, working together) is trying, and failing, to convert to that format, even though the TiVo can nominally handle 1080p/24 only in pass-thru mode. Perhaps a solution might be to somehow keep Plex from attempting the format conversion.

I'm just thinking out loud here ...


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## TiVoMargret

daphatman said:


> Has anyone heard from TiVoMargret?


Both Plex and TiVo are actively looking into this issue.

--Margret


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## shupp872

epstewart said:


> What source video format(s) does the problem arise with? All, or just one or two? I'm thinking the problem may have something to do with format conversions. If 1080p/24 is active on the TiVo, maybe Plex on the server or Plex on the TiVo (or both, working together) is trying, and failing, to convert to that format, even though the TiVo can nominally handle 1080p/24 only in pass-thru mode. Perhaps a solution might be to somehow keep Plex from attempting the format conversion.
> 
> I'm just thinking out loud here ...


I haven't noticed a pattern with the videos that won't play. I have looked at file extension, file codec, reference frames, framerate, bitrate, audio codec, audio bitrate, h.264 profile, etc. But i think there is definitely something, as the same video will fail for me every time when it used to play flawlessly. And other videos that appear to have the same properties play just fine.


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## daphatman

TiVoMargret said:


> Both Plex and TiVo are actively looking into this issue.
> 
> --Margret


Any feedback on the root cause of the problem?


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## daphatman

What the heck is preventing TiVo from simply rolling back this update? I was really conflicted by a recent headline from a financial periodical:

"TiVo Reports Record Third Quarter Service and Software & Technology Revenue Up 17% Driven by 26% Growth in Total Subscriptions and 60% Increase in MSO Service Revenue"

Hey TiVo, I'm on your side, but the delay in resolving these latest issues makes me wish I was not be part of the 26%. I wish I had waited, or considered a different product. I'm new to TiVo, and the way you guys are addressing a MAJOR product defect, gives me lots of doubts about a long-term relationship with your products.

Please do something to get these problems behind us now!

Please.


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## Hilbe

I've decided to order myself a new HDMI cable. It looks like we need HDMI 2.0 cables and I think mine is a 1.4. Hoping that alleviates some of my issues.

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/4K-UHD-Resolution


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## TiVoMargret

If you are having issues with Plex, please try changing your Plex "Secure Connections" setting to either "Preferred" or "Required".

--Margret


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## Steve28

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are having issues with Plex, please try changing your Plex "Secure Connections" setting to either "Preferred" or "Required".
> 
> --Margret


Woah. That seemed to work! Plex loaded for the first time since the update!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## daphatman

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are having issues with Plex, please try changing your Plex "Secure Connections" setting to either "Preferred" or "Required".
> 
> --Margret


Tried, but videos that previously played are still refusing to play. Anything else in the works?


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## Hilbe

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are having issues with Plex, please try changing your Plex "Secure Connections" setting to either "Preferred" or "Required".
> 
> --Margret


I can't get past the "no server found" message to change any setting.


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## georgeorwell86

Hilbe said:


> I can't get past the "no server found" message to change any setting.


You make that change at the server (PC).


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## shupp872

daphatman said:


> Tried, but videos that previously played are still refusing to play. Anything else in the works?


I had an interesting experience this morning. I have a movie that will not play based on the recent update. However, I had started playing this movie on the Roamio. This morning on the Bolt I went in to test, and tried to continue playing the movie. To my surprise it started playing and played just fine.

So I am curious if that has anything to do with it. I can't get it to start from the beginning on the Bolt, but it will continue playing once started from another TiVo. I think it needs some testing on my part to confirm, as I didn't have a lot of time.


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## georgeorwell86

So my server setting was already set to "Preferred" and I have no problem playing any files....but I did notice that several times while navigating around in Plex, it would close and take me back to the Tivo menu. We use Plex a lot...and this has never happened, so must be something happening from the latest update.


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## epstewart

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are having issues with Plex, please try changing your Plex "Secure Connections" setting to either "Preferred" or "Required".
> 
> --Margret


For Plex users' information:

That setting is in the Plex Media Server, not in the Plex app on the TiVo. Information about it is here:

https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/206225077-How-to-Use-Secure-Server-Connections

Scroll about 1/4 of the way down to learn "How to Enable Secure Connections." Basically:



> Under Settings > Server > Network in the Plex Web App, make sure that the Secure Connections preference is not disabled.


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## epstewart

georgeorwell86 said:


> So my server setting was already set to "Preferred" and I have no problem playing any files....but I did notice that several times while navigating around in Plex, it would close and take me back to the Tivo menu. We use Plex a lot...and this has never happened, so must be something happening from the latest update.


I would be interested to learn whether the latest TiVo update contained a different version of the Plex app. If not, then something must have changed in the way the existing app interfaces with the TiVo software (or vice versa) ...


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## Kremlar

> If you are having issues with Plex, please try changing your Plex "Secure Connections" setting to either "Preferred" or "Required".


I believe this option is only available if you have remote access enabled and I do not have it enabled, and do not want to enable it unless absolutely necessary. My other devices (Fire TV sticks, TiVo Minis, Windows-based PCs, and also my Bolt before this last update) stream from Plex fine as-is.

I have had a couple of instances where Plex on my Bolt would not connect to my server at all, but in general it connects but just will not stream some videos.


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## epstewart

Kremlar said:


> I believe this option is only available if you have remote access enabled and I do not have it enabled, and do not want to enable it unless absolutely necessary. My other devices (Fire TV sticks, TiVo Minis, Windows-based PCs, and also my Bolt before this last update) stream from Plex fine as-is.
> 
> I have had a couple of instances where Plex on my Bolt would not connect to my server at all, but in general it connects but just will not stream some videos.


It looks like the option in question is indeed available even if remote access is disabled, as I just tried disabling remote access and found that "Secure Connections," either "Preferred" or "Required," is still available in Settings > Server > Network.

I am beginning to suspect that there is _more than one problem_ that is besetting Plex users on the Bolt since the last TiVo software update. Different posters in this thread have encountered disparate issues. Changing the "Secure Connections" setting seems to have helped at least one user, while not helping others. This would seem to be a reason for TiVo to drop back to the previous software, pending one or more fixes. Anyone agree?


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## Kremlar

epstewart said:


> It looks like the option in question is indeed available even if remote access is disabled, as I just tried disabling remote access and found that "Secure Connections," either "Preferred" or "Required," is still available in Settings > Server > Network.


Sorry, you are right. I misread and expected it to be under the Remote Access section. Mine is already set to Preferred.



> This would seem to be a reason for TiVo to drop back to the previous software, pending one or more fixes. Anyone agree?


Heck yeah! Especially if this is going to take weeks to fix!


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## georgeorwell86

Now I've noticed a new problem. Most of my files are not scaling properly...like the video is stretched instead of letterbox. This is only on the Bolt, the same file played on Plex on the minis look fine. Oh, and while I was testing this, Plex crashed back to the Tivo menu about 10 times. Lovely!

Edit: I found a fix for the scaling issue by switching "Aspect Correction Mode" in the main Tivo menu to "Panel". This fixes the issue in Plex.


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## Hilbe

My server was already set to Preferred. Changed to required. Still getting no server found message.


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## ShadowCVL

Hilbe said:


> My server was already set to Preferred. Changed to required. Still getting no server found message.


Same here...

Fun fact, when I made that change it also broke all iOS and Android clients in the house...

Far from a fix or even a workaround.


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## Hilbe

New version of Plex now out on my TiVo. Ending in .41 version number. Everything is working now!


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## epstewart

Hilbe said:


> New version of Plex now out on my TiVo. Ending in .41 version number. Everything is working now!


I have Plex 2.4.41 on my Bolt also. I guess it just arrived, though I never checked the version no. before. I'm new to Plex and had yet to discover any issues.

This is great news for those who did have issues (if it holds up).

Again if it holds up, I guess we ought to raise a toast to those who were prompt in fixing the problem(s) .... A lukewarm one, because the software shoulda been better tested in the first place ....


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## Hilbe

It was .36 before the update. Plex pushed it out today.


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## daphatman

Hilbe said:


> New version of Plex now out on my TiVo. Ending in .41 version number. Everything is working now!


I'm still having the same problems. videos not starting, dumping out of Plex... Any thoughts?


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## epstewart

daphatman said:


> I'm still having the same problems. videos not starting, dumping out of Plex... Any thoughts?


Can you give some more details? What formats are the videos in? Have you modified any of the default Plex settings? Etc.


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## daphatman

epstewart said:


> Can you give some more details? What formats are the videos in? Have you modified any of the default Plex settings? Etc.


I'm using mkv's. They all played previously. Using default settings.


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## daphatman

daphatman said:


> I'm using mkv's. They all played previously. Using default settings.


Just noticed if I advance the video a bit, it will start,


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> I'm using mkv's. They all played previously. Using default settings.


Try converting one of your MKVs to MP4, just to find out whether it's that particular video container format that is the problem. Here's software that will do the conversion:

http://download.cnet.com/Free-MKV-to-MP4-Converter/3000-2194_4-75904804.html

P.S. How did you make the MKV files?


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> Just noticed if I advance the video a bit, it will start,


You advance it on your computer, and then it will play on the TiVo?


----------



## daphatman

epstewart said:


> You advance it on your computer, and then it will play on the TiVo?


No, advance 30 sec in Tivo


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> No, advance 30 sec in Tivo


OK, I converted one of mine to MKV. It plays fine in Plex on my Bolt.

I don't quite understand what happens when you play one of yours. I was under the impression that you could not even initiate play so as to get access to the 30 second advance.

I'm still wondering how your MKVs were made. It looks to me as if there is something unusual about them that is now causing grief with Plex.


----------



## daphatman

epstewart said:


> OK, I converted one of mine to MKV. It plays fine in Plex on my Bolt.
> 
> I don't quite understand what happens when you play one of yours. I was under the impression that you could not even initiate play so as to get access to the 30 second advance.
> 
> I'm still wondering how your MKVs were made. It looks to me as if there is something unusual about them that is now causing grief with Plex.


Really appreciate the help. My mkv's get as far as the blur screen, then they dump out with a message "too long to start playing." And even if they do start with the advance step I mentioned earlier, they stutter badly.


----------



## daphatman

daphatman said:


> Really appreciate the help. My mkv's get as far as the blur screen, then they dump out with a message "too long to start playing." And even if they do start with the advance step I mentioned earlier, they stutter badly.


Ok... If I uncheck Dolby Digital (AC3), videos will play. What do I need to do to get DD working again?


----------



## Koolice

georgeorwell86 said:


> Now I've noticed a new problem. Most of my files are not scaling properly...like the video is stretched instead of letterbox. This is only on the Bolt, the same file played on Plex on the minis look fine. Oh, and while I was testing this, Plex crashed back to the Tivo menu about 10 times. Lovely!
> 
> Edit: I found a fix for the scaling issue by switching "Aspect Correction Mode" in the main Tivo menu to "Panel". This fixes the issue in Plex.


Thank you! This fixed my issue!!


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> Really appreciate the help. My mkv's get as far as the blur screen, then they dump out with a message "too long to start playing." And even if they do start with the advance step I mentioned earlier, they stutter badly.


Glad to help. Wish I could be more definitive. Anybody with more expertise want to chime in?

This is a set of rank guesses. I'd say, in view of the following ...



daphatman said:


> Ok... If I uncheck Dolby Digital (AC3), videos will play. What do I need to do to get DD working again?


... and what you've said before, that your MKVs are "improperly" constructed, at least from the point of view of Plex when streaming to your Bolt. I don't know how much time and energy you want to invest, but two suggestions:


Try converting one of your files to MP4. See if the MP4 plays normally.
Then try converting that MP4 _back_ to MKV and see if the new MKV plays OK.

If those two experimental conversions work, that again suggests that your original MKV file was "improperly" constructed.

The fact that unchecking Dolby Digital makes it work OK suggests that you have more than one audio track in the file, correct? Because with my own videos I find that Plex on my Bolt _won't let me uncheck_ the only audio track in the file. The test MKV I made (see earlier post) has just one audio track.

So perhaps this is a clue that more than one audio track in an MKV "breaks" Plex on a Bolt. And it seems to do so in a way that makes Plex think, right away, that the video is "too long to start playing." Could be that it's picking up what it thinks is a "length" parameter in some supposed header information. This parameter or header is presumably not what (or where) Plex thinks it is. Another experiment might be to convert your original file again  this time, keeping the MKV format  in a way that leaves just the DD audio and gets rid of any other audio tracks.

Assuming you get some satisfaction out of doing the above, you might be faced with the prospect of converting _all_ your files. Not a bright prospect, I agree.

P.S. I assume Plex plays your "improper" MKV files OK on your computer itself? What about on another, non-Bolt TiVo? Or on any other computers/devices you have that support Plex?

P.P.S. Can you contact TiVo Margret (margret at TiVo dot com) and suggest that she run one of your (uploaded) MKVs through TiVo's (or Plex's) test procedure?


----------



## daphatman

epstewart said:


> Glad to help. Wish I could be more definitive. Anybody with more expertise want to chime in?
> 
> This is a set of rank guesses. I'd say, in view of the following ...
> 
> ... and what you've said before, that your MKVs are "improperly" constructed, at least from the point of view of Plex when streaming to your Bolt. I don't know how much time and energy you want to invest, but two suggestions:
> 
> 
> Try converting one of your files to MP4. See if the MP4 plays normally.
> Then try converting that MP4 _back_ to MKV and see if the new MKV plays OK.
> 
> If those two experimental conversions work, that again suggests that your original MKV file was "improperly" constructed.
> 
> The fact that unchecking Dolby Digital makes it work OK suggests that you have more than one audio track in the file, correct? Because with my own videos I find that Plex on my Bolt _won't let me uncheck_ the only audio track in the file. The test MKV I made (see earlier post) has just one audio track.
> 
> So perhaps this is a clue that more than one audio track in an MKV "breaks" Plex on a Bolt. And it seems to do so in a way that makes Plex think, right away, that the video is "too long to start playing." Could be that it's picking up what it thinks is a "length" parameter in some supposed header information. This parameter or header is presumably not what (or where) Plex thinks it is. Another experiment might be to convert your original file again  this time, keeping the MKV format  in a way that leaves just the DD audio and gets rid of any other audio tracks.
> 
> Assuming you get some satisfaction out of doing the above, you might be faced with the prospect of converting _all_ your files. Not a bright prospect, I agree.
> 
> P.S. I assume Plex plays your "improper" MKV files OK on your computer itself? What about on another, non-Bolt TiVo? Or on any other computers/devices you have that support Plex?
> 
> P.P.S. Can you contact TiVo Margret (margret at TiVo dot com) and suggest that she run one of your (uploaded) MKVs through TiVo's (or Plex's) test procedure?


Greatly appreciate the suggestions. Tried the mp4 conversion and no luck. Also, the MKV's play fine on my mini's and as a mentioned before, there were ok on the bolt prior to the update. There is definitely something going on with DD on the Bolt. ...and now, I'm getting stuttering...


----------



## Hilbe

I disable direct play and direct stream in the Plex app settings. Seems to play everything that way without conversion.


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> Greatly appreciate the suggestions. Tried the mp4 conversion and no luck. Also, the MKV's play fine on my mini's and as a mentioned before, there were ok on the bolt prior to the update. There is definitely something going on with DD on the Bolt. ...and now, I'm getting stuttering...


Interesting. Converting your MKV to MP4 produces a video with the same problem, eh? And they both now give you stuttering? OK, can you convert again, but keep just a single DD audio track and remove all others? I'm thinking the presence of a DD track alongside other audio tracks triggers the problems.

Edit:

I found this quote online here:



> Playback is a little wonky for me with files that contain multiple audio tracks (stereo and 5.1); it's been most reliable when the file contains only 5.1 audio. I've been meaning to write up my detailed findings in a post here so the devs can make it more robust. I'm pretty sure a simple fix to PMS would do the trick...


----------



## Kremlar

daphatman said:


> No, advance 30 sec in Tivo


This works for me as well. On the videos that don't play (just sit at the 3 dots), skipping ahead 30 seconds causes the videos to start.


----------



## daphatman

Kremlar said:


> This works for me as well. On the videos that don't play (just sit at the 3 dots), skipping ahead 30 seconds causes the videos to start.


Any stuttering problems? After working on this all night, I'm pretty convinced the problem is with Dolby Digital (AC3). Less problems if I uncheck DD in the audio settings. But...Again, this was not a problem for me until after the update.


----------



## Kremlar

> Any stuttering problems? After working on this all night, I'm pretty convinced the problem is with Dolby Digital (AC3). Less problems if I uncheck DD in the audio settings. But...Again, this was not a problem for me until after the update.


No stuttering. I did not test the AC3 setting. AC3 is unchecked for me by default and I'm not sure if it matters because I have audio coming through my TV. I'll test later and report back.


----------



## epstewart

Kremlar said:


> This works for me as well. On the videos that don't play (just sit at the 3 dots), skipping ahead 30 seconds causes the videos to start.


See post #82 above: Do your videos have more than one audio track such as Dolby Digital and ordinary stereo? I'm trying to find out if this is the pattern with all the videos that need a 30-second bump just to get started.


----------



## epstewart

Kremlar said:


> AC3 is unchecked for me by default and I'm not sure if it matters because I have audio coming through my TV. I'll test later and report back.


What determines whether AC3 is or is not unchecked by default?


----------



## shupp872

So as others have stated, Plex is basically working now. On movies that are known to not play (only after the update), skipping ahead 30 seconds appears to let the movie play. However, for some reason, Plex always switches the resolution to 2160, even though the content being played is 1080p. Not a huge deal, but I would prefer to let the TV do the upscaling than the TiVo.


----------



## Hilbe

shupp872 said:


> So as others have stated, Plex is basically working now. On movies that are known to not play (only after the update), skipping ahead 30 seconds appears to let the movie play. However, for some reason, Plex always switches the resolution to 2160, even though the content being played is 1080p. Not a huge deal, but I would prefer to let the TV do the upscaling than the TiVo.


Have you tried disabling direct play and direct stream? That is my goto when stuff doesn't play in Plex.


----------



## kbdrand

Any way to force an update to get the latest? I'm stuck on the older version and it just crashes before I can even pick a video to play.


----------



## Kremlar

Kremlar said:


> No stuttering. I did not test the AC3 setting. AC3 is unchecked for me by default and I'm not sure if it matters because I have audio coming through my TV. I'll test later and report back.


I checked AC3 and am not seeing any stutter.

Also, I tried a bunch of videos this AM and as far as I can tell the playback issue is gone for me - all started from the beginning without issue. Was very consistent before.


----------



## daphatman

Kremlar said:


> I checked AC3 and am not seeing any stutter.
> 
> Also, I tried a bunch of videos this AM and as far as I can tell the playback issue is gone for me - all started from the beginning without issue. Was very consistent before.


Videos start fine and then sometimes start stuttering after a few minutes...inconsistent. Something is just not right. Again, all these problems after the update. Things were working so well before, and now all these problems...frustrating!!! And now sometimes, my Bolt is locking up requiring me to unplug it and restart. All related to Plex and videos. TV is solid.


----------



## Kremlar

daphatman said:


> Videos start fine and then sometimes start stuttering after a few minutes...inconsistent. Something is just not right. Again, all these problems after the update. Things were working so well before, and now all these problems...frustrating!!! And now sometimes, my Bolt is locking up requiring me to unplug it and restart. All related to Plex and videos. TV is solid.


Plex is definitely still quitting unexpectedly for me, just browsing videos. Will post back if I see stutter here.


----------



## kbdrand

So looks like I'm running .41 but I can't actually watch any video. Before I can even try to play any videos the Plex app just seems to crash (browsing through my library). Any tips/tricks to keep the Plex app from crashing?


----------



## epstewart

Guys, I'd still like an answer to my (repeated) question about whether the problematic videos that you are trying to play have multiple audio tracks such as DD 5.1 and stereo 2.0 in the same file. I have seen at least one post in another forum that Plex playback of such files is wonky on Roamio. Talk of unchecking DD audio reducing Plex playback problems leads me to think there's a pattern of woe with such dual-audio files. Can we establish that such a pattern exists? Doing so might be helpful going forward ...


----------



## daphatman

epstewart said:


> Guys, I'd still like an answer to my (repeated) question about whether the problematic videos that you are trying to play have multiple audio tracks such as DD 5.1 and stereo 2.0 in the same file. I have seen at least one post in another forum that Plex playback of such files is wonky on Roamio. Talk of unchecking DD audio reducing Plex playback problems leads me to think there's a pattern of woe with such dual-audio files. Can we establish that such a pattern exists? Doing so might be helpful going forward ...


I tried your suggestion and made a new mkv with only one track and the problems continue. However, the key here is that none of these problems occurred prior to the update.


----------



## Kremlar

epstewart said:


> Guys, I'd still like an answer to my (repeated) question about whether the problematic videos that you are trying to play have multiple audio tracks such as DD 5.1 and stereo 2.0 in the same file. I have seen at least one post in another forum that Plex playback of such files is wonky on Roamio. Talk of unchecking DD audio reducing Plex playback problems leads me to think there's a pattern of woe with such dual-audio files. Can we establish that such a pattern exists? Doing so might be helpful going forward ...


I looked at a video I was previously having issues with and it has a single AC3 audio track.


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> I tried your suggestion and made a new mkv with only one track and the problems continue. However, the key here is that none of these problems occurred prior to the update.


OK, I appreciate your trying it. That busts my theory! Such is science ...

Yeah, the key really is that the problems began with the update of the TiVo software and were not all cured by the subsequent update of the Plex software.

daphatman, how are you making your mkv's? I'm assuming you are starting with a DVD and using Handbrake. If that's correct, I'll try doing the same thing and report on my result.


----------



## epstewart

Kremlar said:


> I looked at a video I was previously having issues with and it has a single AC3 audio track.


OK, my theory goes bust!

Kremlar, do your mkv's originate from a Handbrake rip of a DVD?


----------



## daphatman

Kremlar said:


> I looked at a video I was previously having issues with and it has a single AC3 audio track.


I lowered the local quality setting in Plex from Original to 20 Mbps 1080p, and this eliminated several issues. By lowering the Mbps, the MKV bluray quality video is transcoded, as opposed to streamed. Also, I tried to troubleshoot on a different BOLT, and I noticed when the problems started (stuttering, locking up), the Audio Receiver display was fluctuating between DD and Stereo. My guess is that the update did something to throttle bandwidth...making to tough for the Bolt to handle higher quality videos? AGAIN, before the update, not problems.


----------



## daphatman

epstewart said:


> OK, I appreciate your trying it. That busts my theory! Such is science ...
> 
> Yeah, the key really is that the problems began with the update of the TiVo software and were not all cured by the subsequent update of the Plex software.
> 
> daphatman, how are you making your mkv's? I'm assuming you are starting with a DVD and using Handbrake. If that's correct, I'll try doing the same thing and report on my result.


I prefer either MakeMkv or DVDfab.


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> I prefer either MakeMkv or DVDfab.


OK, I'm not familiar with those. I gather you're starting with a BluRay, not a DVD, which I can't emulate since my computer can't (I believe) read a BluRay.


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> I lowered the local quality setting in Plex from Original to 20 Mbps 1080p, and this eliminated several issues. By lowering the Mbps, the MKV bluray quality video is transcoded, as opposed to streamed. Also, I tried to troubleshoot on a different BOLT, and I noticed when the problems started (stuttering, locking up), the Audio Receiver display was fluctuating between DD and Stereo. My guess is that the update did something to throttle bandwidth...making to tough for the Bolt to handle higher quality videos? AGAIN, before the update, not problems.


This pretty much nails down the root of the problems as a throttling of bandwidth by the most recent combo of TiVo and Plex software on the Bolt. If you throttle it manually at the Plex server, several of the playback problems go away.

The fluctuation between DD and Stereo on your receiver tells the tale. Of course, having both kinds of audio track included in the file adds to the bandwidth needed to play that file in Original mode.

If you further throttle down playback by the server to even lower Mbps, does that reduce the issue even further?

If both the Plex client and the Plex server were able to function aright, would they switch to down-rezzing automatically in (nominally) Original mode if the playback bucket brigade were unable to keep up? I don't know what the Plex behavior pattern in such a case is supposed to be.


----------



## Kremlar

Watched some home videos last night and again playback was fine, but the app keeps crashing back to the main TiVo menu randomly. Very unstable.


----------



## epstewart

Kremlar said:


> Watched some home videos last night and again playback was fine, but the app keeps crashing back to the main TiVo menu randomly. Very unstable.


Right now I'm creating an MKV of a movie from BluRay -- my first one. I'll try Plexing it to my Bolt as soon as it's ready. I believe MakeMKV is ripping the main movie file from the BluRay, and doing so with more than one audio track. That should challenge the playback bandwidth, I would think.


----------



## rsday75

So, like others here, I have random crashes out of the app. Mainly when scrolling through the library.
About 50% of my movies will not play without skipping 30 seconds into the movie. Then everything plays fine. Otherwise, they time out on the 3 dots "loading" screen.
I had none of these issues before the latest update. I have the plex .41 version.
Once the movies are playing, everything plays fine. No skipping or stuttering.


----------



## daphatman

TiVoMargret said:


> If Plex isn't streaming for you on BOLT, please send email to [email protected] with the subject "Plex on BOLT" and include the following information:
> 
> - your TSN
> - describe what you are experiencing, and if this is new behavior
> 
> --Margret


Please tells us something. Can TiVo at least acknowledge a problem with the upgrade?


----------



## shupp872

epstewart said:


> Right now I'm creating an MKV of a movie from BluRay -- my first one. I'll try Plexing it to my Bolt as soon as it's ready. I believe MakeMKV is ripping the main movie file from the BluRay, and doing so with more than one audio track. That should challenge the playback bandwidth, I would think.


This is exactly how 95% of my MKVs are. All from Blurays, all multiple audio tracks, all original (very high) bitrate. They all used to play perfectly on the bolt. Now most play fine, and a few have problems starting unless i skip ahead 30 seconds.


----------



## epstewart

epstewart said:


> Right now I'm creating an MKV of a movie from BluRay -- my first one. I'll try Plexing it to my Bolt as soon as it's ready. I believe MakeMKV is ripping the main movie file from the BluRay, and doing so with more than one audio track. That should challenge the playback bandwidth, I would think.


I ran into the same problems on my Bolt. My MKV:


would not start playing at the very beginning but would start if I advanced the start time 30 seconds
stuttered a lot once I got it playing
On my Roamio Plus, these problems did not occur.

On the Roamio Plus, the "local" video playback quality was automatically set not to "original" but to "720p 4Mbps." That was the top available rate in the list that could be seen in Plex Settings on the Roamio. On the Bolt, when I tried changing the setting from "original" to "720p 4Mbps," hoping to cure the problems, it did no good. I still couldn't get my MKV to play from the very beginning or to stop stuttering.


----------



## jkrell

I, too, started to experience this problem. It presents a huge issue, too, because this is the way my daughter watches her movies. Now it's unusable. I've been able to get *some* videos to play by lowering the quality DRAMATICALLY (to 720p). Disappointing to say the least -- watching in 720p on a 4K TV using a 4K-capable TiVo is inexcusable. TiVo needs to fix this ASAP!!!


----------



## TrackZ

Navigating just about any Content on my new Bolt via Plex crashes to the home screen. And I have seen the 3 dots hang on playback as well.


----------



## epstewart

epstewart said:


> I ran into the same problems on my Bolt. My MKV:
> 
> 
> would not start playing at the very beginning but would start if I advanced the start time 30 seconds
> stuttered a lot once I got it playing
> On my Roamio Plus, these problems did not occur.
> 
> On the Roamio Plus, the "local" video playback quality was automatically set not to "original" but to "720p 4Mbps." That was the top available rate in the list that could be seen in Plex Settings on the Roamio. On the Bolt, when I tried changing the setting from "original" to "720p 4Mbps," hoping to cure the problems, it did no good. I still couldn't get my MKV to play from the very beginning or to stop stuttering.


I made a .mpg file of the same Blu-ray movie. This was done with Acrok Video Converter Ultimate for Mac. A quick test in Plex on the Bolt showed that it played from its beginning without having to advance 30 seconds. I aborted the test because I noticed that I had failed to tell the converter not to convert the original video to 480p. So I'm re-ripping it now with the original video characteristics intact, with AC3 audio, and with English subtitles (because I'm hard of hearing). I'll report back later on how well (or how poorly) it plays in Plex on my Bolt ...


----------



## epstewart

TrackZ said:


> Navigating just about any Content on my new Bolt via Plex crashes to the home screen. And I have seen the 3 dots hang on playback as well.


I have yet to experience any crashes of the Plex app on the Bolt. I have had the same problems as others in this thread have experienced when playing an MKV file ripped from Blu-ray. One of the problems I've seen is an apparent hang on playback of the file from its very beginning, with the 3 dots shown on the blur screen ... but if I wait long enough, Plex eventually tells me that it has taken too long to start play. I am then taken back to the info screen for the movie. No crash, no permanent hang.


----------



## epstewart

epstewart said:


> I made a .mpg file of the same Blu-ray movie. This was done with Acrok Video Converter Ultimate for Mac. A quick test in Plex on the Bolt showed that it played from its beginning without having to advance 30 seconds. I aborted the test because I noticed that I had failed to tell the converter not to convert the original video to 480p. So I'm re-ripping it now with the original video characteristics intact, with AC3 audio, and with English subtitles (because I'm hard of hearing). I'll report back later on how well (or how poorly) it plays in Plex on my Bolt ...


I made the .mpg file of my movie. It is in 1080p resolution with DD 5.1 audio and subtitles. This time the file won't play from the beginning on the Bolt. So a 480p/stereo audio rip of the same Blu-ray title has no trouble starting play from the beginning on the Bolt, but a 1080p/DD5.1 rip can't get started. A 30-sec. advance from the beginning point will get play started, though.

The problem seems, therefore, to be related to the video resolution and/or the audio codec being used. The higher the video resolution or more elaborate the audio codec -- i.e. the higher the total bitrate -- the more difficulty Plex has on the Bolt.

But my high-res .mpg file does not show any tendency to stutter, the way my high-res .mkv file does on the Bolt. I mentioned in an earlier post that my Roamio Plus plays the .mkv file without a hitch -- using 480p video conversion (not 720p, a misstatement on my part). For the Roamio the video is being down-converted by Plex, apparently., probably by the Plex server, not the TiVo app.

I'm providing this information in order to help the TiVo and Plex folks with some things they might want to test as they search for a solution ...


----------



## shupp872

new version of the Plex app on the bolt. 2.5.1 i believe. Just noticed it tonight. So far so good. Very limited testing.


----------



## kbdrand

shupp872 said:


> new version of the Plex app on the bolt. 2.5.1 i believe. Just noticed it tonight. So far so good. Very limited testing.


Yeah, I just noticed an update to Plex. I wonder if they fixed the crashing upon browsing the library.

Well, nope. Still crashes for me when browsing my library (seems fairly random). If I can get into a video it plays fine, but browsing my library causes a crash.


----------



## Hilbe

2.5.1 seems to fix video playback issues for me. I've enabled Direct Play/Stream again.


----------



## daphatman

I have the latest Plex version, but problems continue. Still getting buffering and need 30 sec advance to start...


----------



## daphatman

Root cause of problem is still DD (AC3) and bandwidth. Uncheck DD and lower quality, and plays ok. Again, no problems before the Tivo update.


----------



## aaronwt

I've been checking out some content with Plex and DD 5.1 has been playing fine from my content on the Bolt. 5.1 content from downloads in MKV as well as files from my TiVos converted to ts with Archivo. I'm really liking PLEX with TV shows. And the Plex experience from my 4K TV is even better than the Bolt(at least the way it's presented in teh UI. The Bolt actually does a better job with the video/audio playback). I'm liking it so much that I think this is the incentive I need to convert all my TV SHow BD ISOs to another format and have individual episodes.


----------



## shupp872

daphatman said:


> Root cause of problem is still DD (AC3) and bandwidth. Uncheck DD and lower quality, and plays ok. Again, no problems before the Tivo update.


Possibly, but this is not the problem for me. Also, it doesn't explain why the app crashes to the TiVo page during content browsing. I think there may be more than one issue here.


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> I have the latest Plex version, but problems continue. Still getting buffering and need 30 sec advance to start...


With Plex 2.5.1 on the Bolt, I still have the "30-sec. advance to start" problem with my Blu-ray conversion to .mpg ...



daphatman said:


> Root cause of problem is still DD (AC3) and bandwidth. Uncheck DD and lower quality, and plays ok. Again, no problems before the Tivo update.


At first with 2.5.1 I seemed to have bad stuttering, but for some reason it seems to have gone away now. I played with some of the Settings for audio and video on the Bolt. But then I went back to using Original video, DD audio, Direct Play, Direct Stream. No stuttering at this point, but that may change again 



Hilbe said:


> 2.5.1 seems to fix video playback issues for me. I've enabled Direct Play/Stream again.


I don't quite get what Direct Play/Direct Stream do, and whether using them should make it harder or easier for play on the Bolt ...


----------



## epstewart

shupp872 said:


> Possibly, but this is not the problem for me. Also, it doesn't explain why the app crashes to the TiVo page during content browsing. I think there may be more than one issue here.


I likewise think there may be more than one issue here. I myself haven't seen any crashes during content browsing.


----------



## epstewart

... also, can anyone explain why on my Bolt I can play my test .mpg Blu-ray rip (1080p, DD 5.1) in "original" resolution:


6874 kbps is the Plex server's stated bitrate for the video portion alone, 7144 kbps for the media as a whole
 or I can choose various other video resolutions such as 20 Mbps 1080p for "local quality"
... but on my Roamio Plus the top video resolution is limited to 4 Mbps 720p. Why the difference between the Bolt's lack of limitations and the Roamio Plus's quite obvious limitation? Is it because the Roamio Plus has a slower processor?

I know all this (along with Direct Stream and Direct Play) has to do with whether transcoding takes place. But I have questions:


If I'm using Direct Stream (or Direct Play) of my .mpg file to the Bolt, doesn't that (a) avoid transcoding and (b) supersede the "local quality" setting?
If I'm _not_ using Direct Stream/Direct Play, but if I _am_ using "original" as my "local quality" setting, is there any transcoding going on?
If there's transcoding going on, is that done by the Plex app on the Bolt, or is it done by the Plex server?
Pretty obviously, on the Roamio Plus there _must_ be transcoding going on, since the original video has a higher resolution/bitrate than the 4 Mbps 720p the Roamio's Plex app can render. Yet I get no playback issues on the Roamio. On the Bolt, seemingly neither the Plex app nor the Plex server that feeds it has to take on the task of transcoding, if I'm using a setting that does not require it. I would think the Bolt would be _less_ prone than the Roamio to playback issues, especially if the fact that the Roamio has a slower processor has any bearing on the situation. But I would seem to be wrong ...

Anyone else have any thoughts on this matter?


----------



## aaronwt

The Bolt has been pretty solid for me with Plex using the original video resolution and with content having 5.1. My Tv has a better UI with PLEX(and I like how it plays the shows theme music in the background when browsing episodes) but it has issues when using original resolution. I need to drop my TV down to 10Mb/s 1080P to avoid video playback issues. While the Bolt has been able to use original resolution and anything below it and playback is solid with any of those options. 

Although I'm curious how things will change once I setup a dedicated PC for TiVo content and Plex. Right now I'm using a 3.4Ghz corei5 machine with Plex. The dedicated PC for Tivo content will be a core i3 at 3.4 Ghz.


----------



## epstewart

aaronwt said:


> The Bolt has been pretty solid for me with Plex using the original video resolution and with content having 5.1. My Tv has a better UI with PLEX(and I like how it plays the shows theme music in the background when browsing episodes) but it has issues when using original resolution. I need to drop my TV down to 10Mb/s 1080P to avoid video playback issues. While the Bolt has been able to use original resolution and anything below it and playback is solid with any of those options.
> 
> Although I'm curious how things will change once I setup a dedicated PC for TiVo content and Plex. Right now I'm using a 3.4Ghz corei5 machine with Plex. The dedicated PC for Tivo content will be a core i3 at 3.4 Ghz.


I'm trying Plex on my LG TV. I've been experimenting with my .mpg Blu-Ray rip at 1080p/DD5.1 that has issues playing thru the Bolt. In both apps, I'm using Original "local quality" video resolution (but on both I do have Allow Direct Play and Allow Direct Stream checked). On the Bolt, I can't start play at time zero, but I can on the TV app.

Yet both apps say they're version 2.5.1, and they have indistinguishable UIs. This makes me suspect that both apps are alike in how they deal with the Plex server on my computer. Yet the one on the Bolt has issues ...


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## kbdrand

It is just a theory, but I think the crashing during browsing of the library has to do with the library not being fully loaded. I did a test earlier. If I sit and wait after hitting browse on my library, it seems to crash less often. But if I immediately try to start paging through my library after hitting browse it seems to crash pretty quickly.


----------



## epstewart

kbdrand said:


> It is just a theory, but I think the crashing during browsing of the library has to do with the library not being fully loaded. I did a test earlier. If I sit and wait after hitting browse on my library, it seems to crash less often. But if I immediately try to start paging through my library after hitting browse it seems to crash pretty quickly.


How many items are in your library? Maybe you could split them up into multiple libraries.


----------



## jcthorne

Plex has rolled the Tivos back to app version 2.4.41 due to connectivity and stability issues in 2.5.1 Says they will work on it after the holidays.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Plex has rolled the Tivos back to app version 2.4.41 due to connectivity and stability issues in 2.5.1 Says they will work on it after the holidays.


Yup, my Bolt is back to 2.4.41. Just curious: how did you find out the reason for the rollback?


----------



## epstewart

FWIW, I experimentally ripped my BluRay of Star Trek at 480p and found it was able to start playing without issues on my Bolt. I ripped it again at 720p and it would not start playing unless I bumped it to 0:30. The only differences were the video resolution and consequently a higher video bitrate, nearly 4 Mbps compared with well under 3 Mbps for the first rip. I'm now ripping it again at 720p with a video bitrate limit of 2 Mbps, in order to test whether the problem is bitrate-related as opposed to resolution-related. I'll report back ...


----------



## epstewart

epstewart said:


> FWIW, I experimentally ripped my BluRay of Star Trek at 480p and found it was able to start playing without issues on my Bolt. I ripped it again at 720p and it would not start playing unless I bumped it to 0:30. The only differences were the video resolution and consequently a higher video bitrate, nearly 4 Mbps compared with well under 3 Mbps for the first rip. I'm now ripping it again at 720p with a video bitrate limit of 2 Mbps, in order to test whether the problem is bitrate-related as opposed to resolution-related. I'll report back ...


OK, I ripped Star Trek at 720p with a video bitrate limit of 2 Mbps as promised. It will _not_ start playing on my Bolt at 0:00. So I decided to try to locate the log file that Plex Media Server is using on my Mac. Digging into the output of the Terminal application, I found it at /Users/eric/Library/Logs/Plex Media Server.log.

That log file shows the following entries that mention the name of my movie file, which begins with "Star Trek":



> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): Direct Play is disabled
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): media must be transcoded in order to use the hls protocol
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video/ac3
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): no remuxable profile found, so video stream will be transcoded
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): selected media 0 / 175
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): Direct Play is disabled
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): media must be transcoded in order to use the hls protocol
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video/ac3
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): no remuxable profile found, so video stream will be transcoded
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - MDE: Star Trek (2009): selected media 0 / 175
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - [Universal] Using local file path instead of URL: /Volumes/New Movies 2TB/Plex Rips 2/Star Trek (2009).mpg
> Dec 23, 2015 21:43:47 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - Job running: XDG_CACHE_HOME='/Users/eric/Library/Caches/PlexMediaServer/' XDG_DATA_HOME='/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/' '/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/Plex New Transcoder' '-i' '/Volumes/New Movies 2TB/Plex Rips 2/Star Trek (2009).mpg' '-filter_complex' '[0:#0x1e0]scale=w=min(1280\,iw):h=min(720\,ih):force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease[0]' '-map' '[0]' '-codec:0' 'libx264' '-crf:0' '18' '-pix_fmt:0' 'yuv420p' '-maxrate:0' '5944k' '-bufsize:0' '11888k' '-preset:0' 'veryfast' '-level:0' '4.1' '-x264opts:0' 'cabac=0:8x8dct=1:bframes=0:subme=0:me_range=4:rc_lookahead=10:me=dia:no_chroma_me:8x8dct=0artitions=none' '-force_key_frames:0' 'expr:gte(t,0+n_forced*3)' '-map' '0:#0x80' '-codec:1' 'aac' '-strict:1' 'experimental' '-cutoff:1' '15000' '-channel_layout:1' '5.1' '-b:1' '768k' '-segment_format' 'mpegts' '-f' 'segment' '-flags' '-global_header' '-segment_time' '3' '-segment_start_number' '0' '-segment_copyts' '1' '-segment_time_delta' '0.0625' '-max_delay' '5000000' '-avoid_negative_ts' 'disabled' '-map_metadata' '-1' 'media-%05d.ts' '-start_at_zero' '-copyts' '-vsync' 'cfr' '-y' '-nostats' '-loglevel' 'quiet' '-loglevel_plex' 'error' '-progressurl' 'http://127.0.0.1:32400/video/:/transcode/session/s8jy773efbr442t9/progress'


That last part seems to be the initiation of a transcode task. Notice the earlier entries saying that "Direct Play is disabled / media must be transcoded in order to use the hls protocol / no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video / no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video/ac3 / no remuxable profile found, so video stream will be transcoded ... ". After all the above, there exists in the log file a whole lot of entries like:



> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:11 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - Request: [127.0.0.1:51702] PUT /video/:/transcode/session/s8jy773efbr442t9/progress?progress=1.4&size=-22&remaining=101133 (14 live)
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:11 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - HLS segment range: 0 - 33; average bitrate: 4.49 Mbps (segment size min/avg/max: 0.2/1.7/3.1)
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:11 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - We want 20 segments ahead, last returned was 11 and max is 33.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:11 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - It took 0.0 sec to serialize a list with 0 elements.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:11 [0x70000019a000] DEBUG - Completed: [127.0.0.1:51702] PUT /video/:/transcode/session/s8jy773efbr442t9/progress?progress=1.4&size=-22&remaining=101133 (14 live) 1ms 305 bytes 206
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:11 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - Request: [127.0.0.1:51703] PUT /video/:/transcode/session/s8jy773efbr442t9/progress?progress=1.4&size=-22&remaining=30788 (14 live)


These seem to reflect the progress of the transcoding process. Then:



> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.14:35832] GET /:/timeline?ratingKey=195&key=%2Flibrary%2Fmetadata%2F195&state=error&playQueueItemID=234&time=0&duration=7610270&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250899372238&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (14 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] ERROR - Exception getting remote address: remote_endpoint: Invalid argument
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] ERROR - Couldn't get remote endpoint: remote_endpoint: Invalid argument
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - Request: [???] GET /:/timeline?ratingKey=195&key=%2Flibrary%2Fmetadata%2F195&state=error&playQueueItemID=234&time=0&duration=7610270&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250899372238&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (12 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Client [v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr] reporting timeline state error, progress of 0/7610270ms for guid=, ratingKey=195 url=, key=/library/metadata/195, containerKey=, metadataId=195
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - [Now] User is epstewart (ID: 1)
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - [Now] Device is Opera (Plex for TiVo (TiVo TCD849000)).
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - [Now] Updated play state for /library/metadata/195.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - Client [v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr] reporting timeline state error, progress of 0/7610270ms for guid=, ratingKey=195 url=, key=/library/metadata/195, containerKey=, metadataId=195
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001406000] DEBUG - Downloading document http://127.0.0.1:32400/library/metadata/195
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - [Now] User is epstewart (ID: 1)
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - [Now] Device is Opera (Plex for TiVo (TiVo TCD849000)).
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000010f4000] DEBUG - [Now] Updated play state for /library/metadata/195.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001406000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001406000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Downloading document http://127.0.0.1:32400/library/metadata/195
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - It took 10.000000 ms to retrieve 179 items.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - It took 10.000000 ms to retrieve 179 items.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - It took 0.0 sec to serialize a list with 1 elements.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Caching document http://127.0.0.1:32400/library/metadata/195 as c3f9b339513ddd104bd041c2ce3f7f6046a44d59
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - [Now] Added metadata for /library/metadata/195.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001406000] DEBUG - It took 30.000000 ms to retrieve 179 items.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.14:35847] GET /:/timeline?ratingKey=195&key=%2Flibrary%2Fmetadata%2F195&state=error&playQueueItemID=234&time=0&duration=7610270&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250899372238&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (14 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - Client [v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr] reporting timeline state error, progress of 0/7610270ms for guid=, ratingKey=195 url=, key=/library/metadata/195, containerKey=, metadataId=195
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - [Now] User is epstewart (ID: 1)
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - [Now] Device is Opera (Plex for TiVo (TiVo TCD849000)).
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001177000] DEBUG - [Now] Updated play state for /library/metadata/195.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000081000] DEBUG - Completed: [192.168.1.14:35847] GET /:/timeline?ratingKey=195&key=%2Flibrary%2Fmetadata%2F195&state=error&playQueueItemID=234&time=0&duration=7610270 (15 live) TLS GZIP 2ms 203 bytes 200
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001071000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.3:51782] GET /status/sessions (15 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001071000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001071000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001071000] DEBUG - [Now] Adding 1 sessions.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001071000] DEBUG - It took 0.0 sec to serialize a list with 1 elements.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x70000019a000] DEBUG - Completed: [192.168.1.3:51782] GET /status/sessions (15 live) TLS GZIP 2ms 5221 bytes 200
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.14:35849] GET /:/timeline?ratingKey=195&key=%2Flibrary%2Fmetadata%2F195&state=stopped&playQueueItemID=234&time=0&duration=7610270&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250899702247&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (14 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - Client [v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr] reporting timeline state stopped, progress of 0/7610270ms for guid=, ratingKey=195 url=, key=/library/metadata/195, containerKey=, metadataId=195
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - [Now] User is epstewart (ID: 1)
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - [Now] Device is Opera (Plex for TiVo (TiVo TCD849000)).
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001300000] DEBUG - [Now] Updated play state for /library/metadata/195.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x70000019a000] DEBUG - Completed: [192.168.1.14:35849] GET /:/timeline?ratingKey=195&key=%2Flibrary%2Fmetadata%2F195&state=stopped&playQueueItemID=234&time=0&duration=7610270 (15 live) TLS GZIP 2ms 203 bytes 200
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.14:35848] POST /player/proxy/timeline?commandID=0&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250899532242&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (14 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000fee000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000081000] DEBUG - Completed: [192.168.1.14:35848] POST /player/proxy/timeline?commandID=0 (14 live) TLS GZIP 1ms 276 bytes 200
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000011fa000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.14:35850] POST /player/proxy/timeline?commandID=0&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250899932251&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (13 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000011fa000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x7000011fa000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000081000] DEBUG - Completed: [192.168.1.14:35850] POST /player/proxy/timeline?commandID=0 (13 live) TLS GZIP 1ms 276 bytes 200
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Request: [192.168.1.14:35851] GET /video/:/transcode/universal/stop?session=s8jy773efbr442t9&X-Plex-No-Cache=14509250900032253&X-Plex-Product=Plex%20TV&X-Plex-Version=2.4.41&X-Plex-Client-Identifier=v0q9qaaliwvwvcxr&X-Plex-Platform=Opera&X-Plex-Platform-Version=31.0&X-Plex-Device=TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Device-Name=Plex%20for%20TiVo%20%28TiVo%20TCD849000%29&X-Plex-Username=epstewart&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (12 live) TLS GZIP
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Auth: We found auth token (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx), enabling token-based authentication.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700000ee8000] DEBUG - Auth: Came in with a super-token, authorization succeeded.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Found session GUID of s8jy773efbr442t9 in session start.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Killing job.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Signalling job ID 5573 with 9
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Job was already killed, not killing again.
> Dec 23, 2015 21:44:49 [0x700001489000] DEBUG - Stopping transcode session s8jy773efbr442t9


It seems something went awry with the transcoding process. This came at roughly (exactly?) the time that Plex on the Bolt reported that it had taken "too long" to start playing the file.

But why the transcoding in the first place? Presumably because "no direct play video profile exists for mpeg/mpeg2video." Now, "mpeg2video" is the name of the "video encoder" used by my Acrok Video Converter software to rip the Blu-ray to the MPEG2 "container" format. Plex Server apparently can't use Direct Play on such a container. Hence, the transcoding that is done even though the Bolt Plex app is set to use Direct Play.

The Plex app was set to use the "Original" local quality, but that doesn't seem to matter. Setting it to use other local quality levels doesn't help, I find, until the local quality level is dropped all the way down to 1.5 Mbps 480p. Only then will the transcoding provide output that will start to play at time 0:00.

In short, transcoding anomalies  _actually_ taking too much time, or more likely running into an error situation that can't be overcome  cause the movie not to start playing at 0:00.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I hope that this information might find its way into the hands of the Plex tech gurus who might be able to fix the problem. Thanks for listening ...


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> Yup, my Bolt is back to 2.4.41. Just curious: how did you find out the reason for the rollback?


Plex Forum.

https://forums.plex.tv/


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart, your trouble is not the bitrate, its that Plex currently does not directplay mpeg2 in HD resolutions. You need to build an mp4 container with h.264 video and ac3 audio to test HD resolutions. It should direct play those without transcoding.

I think the Tivo could support the mpeg2 HD streams but the Plex Server profiles for the opera app runs on many devices without mpeg2 hardware decoders. Perhaps we can get Plex to build a separate profile for Tivo to support mpeg2 at some point.

What version of Plex media server are you running?


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> epstewart, your trouble is not the bitrate, its that Plex currently does not directplay mpeg2 in HD resolutions. You need to build an mp4 container with h.264 video and ac3 audio to test HD resolutions. It should direct play those without transcoding.
> 
> I think the Tivo could support the mpeg2 HD streams but the Plex Server profiles for the opera app runs on many devices without mpeg2 hardware decoders. Perhaps we can get Plex to build a separate profile for Tivo to support mpeg2 at some point.
> 
> What version of Plex media server are you running?


jc,

Version 0.9.12.19 PMS on Mac OS X El Capitan 10.11.1, in Chrome browser.

I've seen your posts in this forum and in the Plex TV forum. You seem to have a great deal of knowledge about these matters that I would like to tap into.

Based on the logging info I included in post #132 above, I have to agree that the "trouble is not the bitrate, its that Plex currently does not Direct Play mpeg2 in HD resolutions."

I have also found that Plex won't Direct Play the MKV files I've tried.

I will follow up on your suggestion to "build an mp4 container with h.264 video and ac3 audio to test HD resolutions." I can do that pretty easily (I hope) because I am just starting with Plex and with ripping Blu-rays _for_ Plex.

But the reason I began doing that is to try to help those in this thread with MKVs that won't play properly on a Bolt. My (newly made) MKVs, like their MKVs, won't start playing from the beginning on the Bolt but will start playing if I bump to 0:30. There are also stuttering issues. I made MPGs just to see whether those versions had the same problems. They, too, won't start at 0:00 but will at 0:30. But they don't seem to stutter once they start.

Anyway, I'm pretty new at this game. Could you explain in greater depth:



> I think the Tivo could support the mpeg2 HD streams but the Plex Server profiles for the opera app runs on many devices without mpeg2 hardware decoders. Perhaps we can get Plex to build a separate profile for Tivo to support mpeg2 at some point.


What are "the Plex Server profiles for the opera app"? The _opera_ app? What's that? And what are the "profiles" that you are referring to?

Thanks for your advice and help ...

P.S. an even more pertinent question is why the transcoding that is done for MPEG2 and MKV files is not working properly. People in this thread are not so much concerned with the fact that transcoding has to be done as with the fact that it fails to do the right thing(s) ....


----------



## aaronwt

How does Plex work with the TiVo recordings? I added a bunch of TiVo recordings to test with Plex. I used Archivo to create *.ts files from the MPEG2 recordings and those play fine on the Bolt with DD 2.0 and DD 5.1 audio tracks. I have everything set for "original" with video playback.


----------



## Hilbe

Looks like Plex backed out 2.5.1. I'm back on 2.4.41 on all my TiVo.


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## epstewart

Hilbe said:


> Looks like Plex backed out 2.5.1. I'm back on 2.4.41 on all my TiVo.


Me, too!


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## epstewart

aaronwt said:


> How does Plex work with the TiVo recordings? I added a bunch of TiVo recordings to test with Plex. I used Archivo to create *.ts files from the MPEG2 recordings and those play fine on the Bolt with DD 2.0 and DD 5.1 audio tracks. I have everything set for "original" with video playback.


I'm not sure what Archivo is. Can you give me a link?

I've been using kmttg. Not sure if it's equivalent to Archivo.

*.ts files: kmttg has an option to "Download TiVo files in Transport Stream format," but I haven't tried it. I've been grabbing TiVo recordings as (decrypted) *.mpg files. I include a kmttg step to grab closed captions from the recording as *.srt, since I'm hard of hearing. Plex on the Bolt plays all of those files just fine so ... AFAIK so far. At least, I have yet to run into any problems. I use "original" video quality on the Bolt and I have Direct Play/Direct Stream and Dolby Digital (AC3) checked.

This playback situation, like the problematic ones I've encountered with movies ripped from Blu-ray, triggers the Plex Media Server to do transcoding -- no Direct Play is possible. I can tell that by looking at the PMS log file. But unlike with the Blu-ray rips, play starts right away at time 0:00 and is without stuttering.

I don't know what the difference really is here. One kind of *.mpg source file plays fine, but another kind of *.mpg source file does not play fine ...


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## moyekj

All mpeg2 videos (regardless of what tool you used to generate them) need to be transcoded to play them via Plex TiVo. The reason is that Plex TiVo client is running on a built in browser in TiVo software called Opera, and Opera browser does NOT support playback of mpeg2 videos directly. Hence the only way it can play them is to transcoding to a format it can play, such as mpeg4 container with H.264 video.

Note that you can find out exactly what is happening on your Plex server at any time by connecting to web interface for Plex server and then clicking on "Activity" icon at top right to left of the "Settings" icon. From there you can tell exactly what it is doing by clicking on "Info" icon for a video - direct play or transcode, etc. You should see for any attempt to play mpeg2 source files it will attempt to transcode them.

The issue I'm running into is attempting to play HD mpeg2 files on my Roamio Pro via Plex fails because it looks like transcoding is not happening faster than real time and so I get a bunch of buffering/stuttering. This is using a pretty powerful server for running Plex. It sounds like somehow the Plex client on Bolt is handling mpeg2 transcoding differently/better for some, though I thought jcthorne tried it on his Bolt and had problems - perhaps because Plex server he is using is light weight and can't handle transcode.

I will also note that if I use the Plex web interface (using firefox browser) and play the same HD mpeg2 videos, they play back smoothly without any problems at all even though they are being transcoded to H.264 just like with using TiVo Plex client. So the issue seems to be more with TiVo Plex client for me rather than inadequate Plex server to handle transcodes.


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## jcthorne

I have created some misunderstandings I fear.

I tried one and only one mpeg2 file via plex which is running on my i7 laptop. It has transcoded other videos fine but this one it showed to be throttling. I was also watching it remotely on the tivo via slingbox which is a lot of media streams on my network. Not so sure it was a valid test.

All my videos stored on the media server are streamable mp4 format containing h.264 video and AC3 audio. I have not found one yet that will not play via plex from the beginning. These are the same videos that I push to Tivo using pytivo and they play correctly that route as well.

When you say that mkvs are not playing correctly you need to be specific with the content of the container as it covers a lot of ground. The mkv container is also not great for streaming so plex has to do some repackaging (to HLS or TS) to stream them.


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## moyekj

Also, FYI the same HD mpeg2 videos play fine via iPad Plex client as well. So that's 2 different Plex clients from same server that play fine, so I'm convinced the TiVo Plex client is the problem and not well suited for HD mpeg2 transcoding video playback for some odd/unexplained reason.


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## daphatman

moyekj said:


> Also, FYI the same HD mpeg2 videos play fine via iPad Plex client as well. So that's 2 different Plex clients from same server that play fine, so I'm convinced the TiVo Plex client is the problem and not well suited for HD mpeg2 transcoding video playback for some odd/unexplained reason.


All the time and energy everyone is putting into this is awesome. But, let's not forget that NONE OF THESE PROBLEMS WERE OCCURRING BEFORE THE TIVO UPDATE.

TiVo, and Plex, please just focus on what changed, and I suspect you will find the root cause of these recent problems.


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## epstewart

Questions/comments for moyekj and jcthorne:

Thanks for filling me in on the Opera browser in the Plex TiVo client.

Also thanks for curing me in on how to use the Plex server to snoop on "Activity." I'll try this when I get a spare moment. 

As for Kevin's Roamio Pro woes having to do with buffering/stuttering while transcoding is going on for HD MPEG2 files, what is the local video quality setting that is in use on the Pro? On my Roamio Plus, it's 4 Mbps 720p, the maximum I'm allowed. I guess on the Pro there is a higher maximum? Anyway, I don't have any such issues with Plex on my Plus. I'm quite surprised about the bucket brigade between the powerful server and the Pro being unsatisfactory. If the culprit is indeed the TiVo Plex client on the Pro, well, most of the problems noted in this thread are chalked up to an inadequate Plex client on the Bolt!

jcthorne, your MP4/h.264 files that play OK have AC3 audio, correct? That's great ... but I thought AAC was the gold standard for Plex audio. What am I missing? Also, I know what TS means, but what is HLS?


----------



## epstewart

I tried using the tip given above for looking at Activity/Now Playing/Info on the Plex server's web interface.

When I played my MP4/h.264/DD5.1 Star Trek rip from Blu-ray, it said I was using Direct Play. Yay!

When I played my MPEG2/DD5.1 rip, starting well past time 0:00, it said I was using Direct Stream for the audio but was transcoding the video to h.264. Playback on the Bolt was normal. Yay!

When I played that same MPEG2/DD5.1 rip, _starting at the very beginning at 0:00_, it showed that there was an "error" and that the h.264 transcoding was "choked." When I tried reproducing that result, however, I could not get anything but "Nothing is currently being played." Anyway, this again shows that h.264 transcoding works OK for the Bolt Plex app _except on certain files when play is started at 0:00_.

However, when I play from 0:00 an MPEG2 HD file that I captured using kmttg, even though it needs h.264 transcoding, it plays fine. (The audio is Direct Streamed.) So there exist files with .mpg containers that play OK, no matter what. It's only the ones I've ripped from Blu-ray that hang up at 0:00. Does anyone have any ideas how I can determine what the crucial difference is?


----------



## aaronwt

epstewart said:


> I'm not sure what Archivo is. Can you give me a link?
> ................


Here is the thread for the Archivo porgram

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=532868&highlight=archivo


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## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> Questions/comments for moyekj and jcthorne:
> 
> jcthorne, your MP4/h.264 files that play OK have AC3 audio, correct? That's great ... but I thought AAC was the gold standard for Plex audio. What am I missing? Also, I know what TS means, but what is HLS?


Yes, 5.1 channel AC3 for most although I do have some that are only 2 channel stereo depending on the source. Tivo and most other Plex clients cannot handle 5.1 audio encoded via AAC, only stereo. Not all plex clients handle AC3 but for those that do not, its a small processor load to transcode to aac on the fly. Its the video that takes considerable processor to transcode in real time.

HLS is a secure streaming protocol that I noticed plex using for some streams. It uses TS for others but I have no idea which it uses for what.

The reason I asked about your plex media server version is that there is a new version made public last week (9.14.6) that includes a good deal about transcode profiles in the release notes, including the ability of the plex client to specify what can be streamed directly rather than relying on local profiles at the server. Its not yet an automatic update so would need to be manually installed. I am out of town for the holidays so not going to try it remotely. We are using the plex server to view at our vacation home. But might be worth a try to see what they have already fixed in the newer version. I will when we get home.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> The reason I asked about your plex media server version is that there is a new version made public last week (9.14.6) that includes a good deal about transcode profiles in the release notes, including the ability of the plex client to specify what can be streamed directly rather than relying on local profiles at the server. Its not yet an automatic update so would need to be manually installed. I am out of town for the holidays so not going to try it remotely. We are using the plex server to view at our vacation home. But might be worth a try to see what they have already fixed in the newer version. I will when we get home.


I will manually grab 9.14.6 and try it. Thanks!


----------



## peroulas

The entire reason I switched from my SageTV server setup to Tivo was so that I wouldn't have to deal with these kind of software issues, and it is just supposed to work out of the box. Plex was working great since I purchased my Bolt. The fact that I cannot watch my Plex movies anymore is extremely annoying. This is also during the holidays where my kids want to watch the plex movies we have. This is silly that this is not yet fixed!

c'mon TIVO!


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## peroulas

I can also confirm that 9.14.6 does not fix the issues for me after manual install. Some movies do seem to work. Still getting "there was a problem playing this item" on some movies.
And it just kicked me out to the main tivo menu again. Everything plays fine on other clients...


----------



## BRiT wtfdotcom

peroulas said:


> The entire reason I switched from my SageTV server setup to Tivo was so that I wouldn't have to deal with these kind of software issues, and it is just supposed to work out of the box. Plex was working great since I purchased my Bolt. The fact that I cannot watch my Plex movies anymore is extremely annoying. This is also during the holidays where my kids want to watch the plex movies we have. This is silly that this is not yet fixed!
> 
> c'mon TIVO!


Instead of using plex, use pytivo and push the movies to the tivo device. Yes, its more troublesome than streaming natively but I never have issues with pytivo. Of course that assumes you have required space on the tivo for all those movies/shows.


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## daphatman

peroulas said:


> The entire reason I switched from my SageTV server setup to Tivo was so that I wouldn't have to deal with these kind of software issues, and it is just supposed to work out of the box. Plex was working great since I purchased my Bolt. The fact that I cannot watch my Plex movies anymore is extremely annoying. This is also during the holidays where my kids want to watch the plex movies we have. This is silly that this is not yet fixed!
> 
> c'mon TIVO!


Exactly...


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## Kremlar

daphatman said:


> exactly...


x2


----------



## epstewart

I've been investigating further the problem in which Plex on the Bolt is not able to play certain videos starting at the beginning, at time 0:00. The Bolt will wait one minute and then time out with an error message. These problem videos _did_ play before the latest update to the software on the TiVo Bolt. Now, in order to get them to play from anything close to their beginning, they have to be advanced on the Bolt to time 0:30 (or any time after 0:00). Then they will be able to start to play. I don't yet know all the answers as to why this problem exists. I do know that video files that can be played using Direct Play - these are typically



> *.mp4 container/h.264 codec/DD5.1 audio


files - don't have the problem. The only files that have the problem are ones that need to be transcoded by Plex, rather than using Direct Play. For example, *.mkv or *.mp4 files. However, for reasons I have yet to discover, _some_ *mp4 files that I have (ones that were recorded on the Bolt and transferred/decoded by kmttg) do play from 0:00 on the Bolt without being bumped to 0:30.

Anyway, I've been able to scrutinize the Plex Media Server log files. I've found that PMS uses what seems to be a version of the standard MPEG converter software *ffmpeg* to do the transcoding. I have been using a Blu-ray rip of the 2009 movie "Star Trek" to test with. The rip created */Volumes/New Movies 2TB/Plex Rips 2/Star Trek (2009).mpg* on my iMac. Its Media Info:



> Media:
> 
> Video Resolution 720p
> Duration 2:06:50
> Bitrate 4174 kbps
> Width 1280
> Height 720
> Aspect Ratio 1.78
> Container MPEG
> Video Frame Rate NTSC
> Video Profile main
> Title Original
> 
> Part:
> 
> Duration 2:06:50
> File Star Trek (2009).mpg
> Size 3.70 GB
> Container MPEG
> Video Profile main
> Codec MPEG2VIDEO
> Bitrate 3963 kbps
> Bit Depth 8
> Chroma Subsampling 4:2:0
> Color Range tv
> Duration 2:06:50
> Frame Rate 29.970 fps
> Height 720
> Pixel Format yuv420p
> Profile main
> Scan Type progressive
> Stream Identifier 480
> Width 1280
> 
> Codec AC3
> Channels 5.1
> Bitrate 128 kbps
> Audio Channel Layout 5.1(side)
> Bit Depth 16
> Bitrate Mode CBR
> Dialog Norm -31 dB
> Duration 2:06:50
> Sampling Rate 44100 Hz
> Stream Identifier 128


The Bolt won't play it from 0:00, but if I establish a resume point beyond 0:00 by playing it on my iMac, then I can test on the Bolt with two cases:


Failed play
Normal play

Here's an example of what goes into the Plex Media Server log with failed play:



> Dec 26, 2015 10:44:15 [0x700000de2000] DEBUG - Job running: XDG_CACHE_HOME='/Users/eric/Library/Caches/PlexMediaServer/' XDG_DATA_HOME='/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/' '/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/Plex New Transcoder' '-i' '/Volumes/New Movies 2TB/Plex Rips 2/Star Trek (2009).mpg' '-filter_complex' '[0:#0x1e0]scale=w=min(1280\,iw):h=min(720\,ih):force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease[0]' '-map' '[0]' '-codec:0' 'libx264' '-crf:0' '16' '-pix_fmt:0' 'yuv420p' '-maxrate:0' '5944k' '-bufsize:0' '11888k' '-preset:0' 'veryfast' '-level:0' '4.1' '-x264opts:0' 'cabac=0:8x8dct=1:bframes=0:subme=0:me_range=4:rc_lookahead=10:me=dia:no_chroma_me:8x8dct=0artitions=none' '-force_key_frames:0' 'expr:gte(t,0+n_forced*3)' '-map' '0:#0x80' '-codec:1' 'copy' '-copypriorss:1' '0' '-segment_format' 'mpegts' '-f' 'segment' '-flags' '-global_header' '-segment_time' '3' '-segment_start_number' '0' '-segment_copyts' '1' '-segment_time_delta' '0.0625' '-max_delay' '5000000' '-avoid_negative_ts' 'disabled' '-map_metadata' '-1' 'media-%05d.ts' '-start_at_zero' '-copyts' '-vsync' 'cfr' '-y' '-nostats' '-loglevel' 'quiet' '-loglevel_plex' 'error' '-progressurl' 'http://127.0.0.1:32400/video/:/transcode/session/m2bbx1e1d53tyb9/progress'


It's a call to Plex's ffmpeg app. You should just ignore the single-quote characters, which are there just so the call will be correctly parsed. There is at least one smilie that this forum has "inserted," and you can ignore that, too. The items in red are interesting because they do not appear in this normal-play ffmpeg call:



> Dec 26, 2015 11:47:30 [0x700000cdc000] DEBUG - Job running: XDG_CACHE_HOME='/Users/eric/Library/Caches/PlexMediaServer/' XDG_DATA_HOME='/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/' '/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/Plex New Transcoder' '-ss' '1080' '-i' '/Volumes/New Movies 2TB/Plex Rips 2/Star Trek (2009).mpg' '-filter_complex' '[0:#0x1e0]scale=w=min(1280\,iw):h=min(720\,ih):force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease[0]' '-map' '[0]' '-codec:0' 'libx264' '-crf:0' '16' '-pix_fmt:0' 'yuv420p' '-maxrate:0' '5944k' '-bufsize:0' '11888k' '-preset:0' 'veryfast' '-level:0' '4.1' '-x264opts:0' 'cabac=0:8x8dct=1:bframes=0:subme=0:me_range=4:rc_lookahead=10:me=dia:no_chroma_me:8x8dct=0artitions=none' '-force_key_frames:0' 'expr:gte(t,0+n_forced*3)' '-map' '0:#0x80' '-codec:1' 'copy' '-copypriorss:1' '0' '-segment_format' 'mpegts' '-f' 'segment' '-flags' '-global_header' '-segment_time' '3' '-segment_start_number' '0' '-segment_time_delta' '0.0625' '-max_delay' '5000000' '-map_metadata' '-1' 'media-%05d.ts' '-y' '-nostats' '-loglevel' 'quiet' '-loglevel_plex' 'error' '-progressurl' 'http://127.0.0.1:32400/video/:/transcode/session/pnosux54b7ta9k9/progress'


The items in red above



> '-start_at_zero' '-copyts' '-vsync' 'cfr'


mean, first of all, to begin playback at 0:00. Also (from online ffmpeg documentation):



> With respect to -copyts, the ffmpeg documentation says:
> 
> Do not process input timestamps, but keep their values without trying to sanitize them. In particular, do not remove the initial start time offset value.
> 
> Note that, depending on the vsync option or on specific muxer processing (e.g. in case the format option avoid_negative_ts is enabled) the output timestamps may mismatch with the input timestamps even when this option is selected.
> 
> With respect to -vsync cfr, the ffmpeg documentation says:
> 
> -vsync parameter
> Video sync method. For compatibility reasons old values can be specified as numbers. Newly added values will have to be specified as strings always.
> 
> 0, passthrough
> Each frame is passed with its timestamp from the demuxer to the muxer.
> 
> 1, cfr
> Frames will be duplicated and dropped to achieve exactly the requested constant frame rate.
> 
> 2, vfr
> Frames are passed through with their timestamp or dropped so as to prevent 2 frames from having the same timestamp.
> 
> drop
> As passthrough but destroys all timestamps, making the muxer generate fresh timestamps based on frame-rate.
> 
> -1, auto
> Chooses between 1 and 2 depending on muxer capabilities. This is the default method.
> 
> Note that the timestamps may be further modified by the muxer, after this. For example, in the case that the format option avoid_negative_ts is enabled.
> 
> With -map you can select from which stream the timestamps should be taken. You can leave either video or audio unchanged and sync the remaining stream(s) to the unchanged one.


Those "extra" parameters (which are parsed as *-copyts* and *-vsync cfr*) seem to be intended to make sure, using a constant rather than variable frame rate for the transcoded output, that "timestamps" in the input file do not conspire to get the audio out of sync with the video in the output file. That's my interpretation, at least. The "extra" parameters, along with *-start_at_zero*, may have something to do with the Bolt's can't-start-play-at-0:00 problem.

But I've also found that there may be other contributory parameters. Notice *-level:0 4.1*. When I play the same file from 0:00 with no problem in Plex on my "smart" TV, it becomes *-level:0 4.2*. Is that important? I don't know.

I can change the "local quality" for video on the Bolt's Plex client to *1.5 Mbps 480p*, and the video will play fine from 0:00. Here are the key differences in the ffmpeg call:



> -filter_complex [0:#0x1e0]scale=w=min(720\,iw):h=min(406\,ih):force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease[0]
> (vs. -filter_complex [0:#0x1e0]scale=w=min(1280\,iw):h=min(720\,ih):force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease[0])
> -crf:0 19 vs. -crf:0 16
> -maxrate:0 1500k vs. -maxrate:0 5944k
> -bufsize:0 3000k vs. -bufsize:0 11888k
> -force_key_frames:0 expr:gte(t,0+n_forced*8) vs. -force_key_frames:0 expr:gte(t,0+n_forced*3)
> -segment_time 8 vs. -segment_time 3


The upshot seems to be (if I'm interpreting right) that there is a change in the constant frame rate parameter (*-crf:0 nn*) and also a change in the manner of use of "segments" in the video output. Apparently, the higher the number used for *-segment_time*, the longer the duration of each video output segment. The failed Plex playback used a lower segment time, 3, than the segment time of 8 used for the normal Plex playback. Possibly the lower number triggered the need in the transcoder to produce more segments per unit time of the original video, meaning there was more work to be done and that work couldn't be achieved promptly enough.

That's a reasonable guess, I suppose, but I also found through inspecting the Plex logs and snooping in my router's statistics that even a failed attempt to start playing at 0:00 on the Bolt seems to _begin_ sending transcoded data out to the Bolt - surprise, surprise - even though no video ever shows up on the TV screen. I found, in the Plex log, information that seems to imply that some 22 million bytes of data were sent out in roughly 8 or 9 seconds. Then the transcoder kept on working - after a fashion, that is - but no more data was ever sent out. Finally, 60 seconds after the whole process began, the process timed out and reported an error condition on the TV screen.

When play was successfully started on the Bolt at a time _well after_ 0:00, the amount of data sent out from the server in the first 8-9 seconds was _again_ roughly 22 million bytes. The differences: (a) the movie actually played on the TV screen; (b) the Plex Media Server's transcoder _did not stop_ sending further data out to the Bolt after the first 8 or 9 seconds of play.

My test "Star Trek" file uses an MPEG (*.mpg) video container and that another file of mine that has the same kind of MPEG video container (one that was transferred from the Bolt and decoded by kmttg) plays OK on the Bolt from 0:00. Accordingly, I have to conclude that there is still an X-factor that causes play-initiation problems on the Bolt. This X-factor may well have to do with differences in the actual content of the video files in question, and particularly with the internal structure of the MPEG video that is recorded in these files. When Bolt playback from 0:00 fails on the Bolt, there _has_ to be some mysterious factor that causes the transcoder to cease actually sending out more data to the Bolt. With MPEG files that play OK from 0:00, that trigger event doesn't happen.

That's about all I know at the moment. I am posting this long-winded reply in hopes that (a) Plex software gurus may pick up on it and figure out a solution to the entire problem, and (b) other denizens of this thread will post their own thoughts and maybe even mine their own Plex Media Server logs for further useful information.


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## loungesong

I'm a Custom Home Theater Installer and have recommended TiVo to countless customers. I make almost no money selling the boxes and many times Comcast issues with the CableCARDs has frustrated my end users making me question why I even do it...

The Bolt and the zippy netflix, amazon, plex clients was a real selling point and I hope Tivo realizes that recording cable shows is quickly losing importance and these streaming clients are becoming far more important than 4 or 6 tuners and HDD space.

Now I have a customer wanting to return the Bolt we installed over this. What a bummer.


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## aaronwt

This Summer? That was months ago. You will still let the customer return it after this long?


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## Kremlar

aaronwt said:


> This Summer? That was months ago. You will still let the customer return it after this long?


Who said summer?


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## jkrell

aaronwt said:


> How does Plex work with the TiVo recordings? I added a bunch of TiVo recordings to test with Plex. I used Archivo to create *.ts files from the MPEG2 recordings and those play fine on the Bolt with DD 2.0 and DD 5.1 audio tracks. I have everything set for "original" with video playback.


I've got one video I pulled from TiVo using Archivo. It doesn't work on the Plex app on TiVo but works fine on other Plex devices.

I am able to get most everything to play by advancing to 0:30. Annoying, but a decent workaround until this gets fixed.

Between this and the HDMI issue, I'm not pleased with TiVo at the moment. Shoddy QC work on this last update.


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## epstewart

I ripped my Blu-rays of Parts 1 and 2 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I used the same Acrok converter to do both, using *.mp4/h.264/AAC5.1 output with original frame rates, bit rates, etc. With Direct Play allowed on the Bolt, Part 2 plays fine even from 0:00. But Part 1 won't play from _any_ time point, 0:00 or otherwise!

Both parts play fine from any time point on my LG TV and on my iPad.

I tried re-ripping Part 1 in case there was a one-time anomaly with the first rip, but it made no difference.

I unchecked Allow Direct Play on the Bolt, meaning that there would be transcoding done for these *.mp4 files, and Part 1 would now play from any time point after roughly 0:05, but not from at or near the beginning.

But the problem with Part 1 with time points well after 0:00 and with Direct Play allowed, such that there was no transcoding, suggests that the inherent problems with the current Plex client on the current Bolt software are not limited to situations where transcoding is being done. I think this is new information in this ever-lengthening thread.

So I think it's about time for a fix, O ye TiVo and Plex tech gurus!


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## Skotch116

What is the current version of the plex app on the bolt? Mine says 2.4.41 but heard others saying 2.5.1? If so how to update the plex app?


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## atmuscarella

Skotch116 said:


> What is the current version of the plex app on the bolt? Mine says 2.4.41 but heard others saying 2.5.1? If so how to update the plex app?


My Bolt is still on 2.4.41


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## epstewart

atmuscarella said:


> My Bolt is still on 2.4.41


2.4.41.

2.5.1 was briefly downloaded but was backed away from because it was causing instability and other problems. Not that 2.4.41 doesn't ...


----------



## epstewart

epstewart said:


> I'm trying Plex on my LG TV. I've been experimenting with my .mpg Blu-Ray rip at 1080p/DD5.1 that has issues playing thru the Bolt. In both apps, I'm using Original "local quality" video resolution (but on both I do have Allow Direct Play and Allow Direct Stream checked). On the Bolt, I can't start play at time zero, but I can on the TV app.
> 
> Yet both apps say they're version 2.5.1, and they have indistinguishable UIs. This makes me suspect that both apps are alike in how they deal with the Plex server on my computer. Yet the one on the Bolt has issues ...


I wrote that a few days ago. Since then, the 2.4.41 version has been resurrected on the Bolt, and the app on the LG TV has been rolled back to 2.4.35!


----------



## daphatman

Anything new on resolving the Plex issues?


----------



## epstewart

daphatman said:


> Anything new on resolving the Plex issues?


Not to my knowledge. My Bolt is stil on TiVo software version 20.5.6.RC18-USC-11-849 and Plex 2.4.41.

TiVo is clearly not going to roll anything back, so we need fixed new versions of those items. Plex 2.5.1 itself had to be backed away from, so things are definitely in limbo.


----------



## aaronwt

loungesong said:


> I'm a Custom Home Theater Installer and have recommended TiVo to countless customers. I make almost no money selling the boxes and many times Comcast issues with the CableCARDs has frustrated my end users making me question why I even do it...
> 
> The Bolt and the zippy netflix, amazon, plex clients was a real selling point and I hope Tivo realizes that recording cable shows is quickly losing importance and these streaming clients are becoming far more important than 4 or 6 tuners and HDD space.
> 
> Now I have a customer wanting to return the Bolt we installed over this. What a bummer.





aaronwt said:


> This Summer? That was months ago. You will still let the customer return it after this long?





Kremlar said:


> Who said summer?


 I bet I saw the s and the end of "this" and joined it with "bummer". And I read it as "installed over this Summer."


----------



## loungesong

loungesong said:


> Now I have a customer wanting to return the Bolt we installed over this. What a bummer.


Customer is still have problems with Plex on Bolt. I am having the same problem with my Bolt...but no problems with my Premier Elite or Roamio...looks like everything running same version of plex, 2.4.41.

My Vizio TV seems to have similar client, not a problem. Must be a Bolt thing...


----------



## epstewart

loungesong said:


> Customer is still have problems with Plex on Bolt. I am having the same problem with my Bolt...but no problems with my Premier Elite or Roamio...looks like everything running same version of plex, 2.4.41.
> 
> My Vizio TV seems to have similar client, not a problem. Must be a Bolt thing...


Same here. Plex is fine on LG TV, Apple TV, Roamio Plus. The TV has the same Plex version as the Bolt.


----------



## epstewart

BTW, this thread is now over 1 month old ...


----------



## jamesteixeira

I've had some on and off problems with Plex on Tivo. My current version is 2.4.41 and has been since they rolled back 2.5.1. My main use of Plex for Tivo is to watch hockey via the Hockeystreams 0.7 channel.

Wednesday night and a few nights prior, Plex on Tivo would not play the mp4 Hockeystreams content even though my Plex on Vizio TV played it.

Last night, with the Plex for Tivo version still being 2.4.41, It the played the Hockystreams mp4 perfectly. If the pattern continues, it will work for a few days and then stop working again.


----------



## muzzymate

I'm also receiving the stuttering issue on my Roamio and occasional video not starting errors. Sigh! And it was working so well too.


----------



## epstewart

muzzymate said:


> I'm also receiving the stuttering issue on my Roamio and occasional video not starting errors. Sigh! And it was working so well too.


Just curious: what model of Roamio? Also, what video and audio settings are your using in the Plex app? Do changing any of them help your videos play better?

On my Bolt, I find that some videos play OK with certain settings, while others play OK with different settings. Not sure what the pattern is ...


----------



## jkrell

epstewart said:


> On my Bolt, I find that some videos play OK with certain settings, while others play OK with different settings. Not sure what the pattern is ...


Same here. Appears to be no rhyme or reason but after tinkering I am able to get most videos to play. Keep waiting for an update to get pushed out.... This is not doing good things as far as the WAF is concerned.


----------



## moyekj

muzzymate said:


> I'm also receiving the stuttering issue on my Roamio and occasional video not starting errors. Sigh! And it was working so well too.


Debugging Plex a little more recently on my Roamio Pro I think I discovered what causes stuttering. Specifically, I was having issues streaming HD mpeg2 videos to my TiVo, but using the server built in client itself was fine, so I ruled out my Plex server as being the issue. So instead I focused on TiVo Plex client settings. With these settings I have trouble:

Audio
Dolby Digital (AC3) = enabled
Volume Boost = none

Video
Local Quality = Original
Remote Quality = 4 Mbps 720p
Online Quality = Original
Subtitles Size = Normal
Allow Direct Play = Enabled
Allo Direct Stream = Enabled
Maximum H.264 Level = 4.1

If I change *Video Local Quality* to *"4 Mbps 720p"* then it works fine on Roamio Pro. If I choose any option greater than 4 Mbps 720p the stuttering remains.
So it seems to me like the Roamio Pro Opera browser seems to have a 720p max limitation even though the client gives you option to use higher resolution.


----------



## razor237

moyekj said:


> Debugging Plex a little more recently on my Roamio Pro I think I discovered what causes stuttering. Specifically, I was having issues streaming HD mpeg2 videos to my TiVo, but using the server built in client itself was fine, so I ruled out my Plex server as being the issue. So instead I focused on TiVo Plex client settings. With these settings I have trouble:
> 
> Audio
> Dolby Digital (AC3) = enabled
> Volume Boost = none
> 
> Video
> Local Quality = Original
> Remote Quality = 4 Mbps 720p
> Online Quality = Original
> Subtitles Size = Normal
> Allow Direct Play = Enabled
> Allo Direct Stream = Enabled
> Maximum H.264 Level = 4.1
> 
> If I change *Video Local Quality* to *"4 Mbps 720p"* then it works fine on Roamio Pro. If I choose any option greater than 4 Mbps 720p the stuttering remains.
> So it seems to me like the Roamio Pro Opera browser seems to have a 720p max limitation even though the client gives you option to use higher resolution.


Plex on the Roamio was originally designed to only work @ 720P due to some HLS stack or something with the way TiVo deals with opera and would cause Plex to not work at 1080P. it looks like they resolved that cause all my stuff on my Roamio pro was working good @ 1080P until the last update and now half of my videos don't work as well as they used too, so maybe the last update broke what they fixed for 1080P to work and now only 720P work. My bolt is completely useless for plex now and i hope they fix it soon


----------



## moyekj

razor237 said:


> Plex on the Roamio was originally designed to only work @ 720P due to some HLS stack or something with the way TiVo deals with opera and would cause Plex to not work at 1080P. it looks like they resolved that cause all my stuff on my Roamio pro was working good @ 1080P until the last update and now half of my videos don't work as well as they used too. My bolt is completely useless for plex now and i hope they fix it soon


 Yes, I guess until they re-fix it the workaround is to limit "local quality" to 4 Mbps 720p. So it's not totally useless but certainly far from ideal.


----------



## razor237

Yeah not totally useless, im going to try that on my bolt when i get home and see if it makes it use able again


----------



## muzzymate

epstewart said:


> Just curious: what model of Roamio? Also, what video and audio settings are your using in the Plex app? Do changing any of them help your videos play better?


I have a base Roamio (4 turner cablecard version)

I tried limiting local quality all the way down to a low bitrate 480p and either the video wouldn't start at all (3 dots) or it would simply stutter. I have a fairly beefy Plex server and was watching the CPU usage; it was hardly breaking a sweat, so I'm fairly certain that's not to blame.

I'm going to try moyekj's settings. I don't remember the other ones I was using but will limit it to 720p 4Mbps and duplicate the others. Will report back after I've had a chance to test.


----------



## epstewart

muzzymate said:


> I have a base Roamio (4 turner cablecard version)
> 
> I tried limiting local quality all the way down to a low bitrate 480p and either the video wouldn't start at all (3 dots) or it would simply stutter. I have a fairly beefy Plex server and was watching the CPU usage; it was hardly breaking a sweat, so I'm fairly certain that's not to blame.
> 
> I'm going to try moyekj's settings. I don't remember the other ones I was using but will limit it to 720p 4Mbps and duplicate the others. Will report back after I've had a chance to test.


I will try 720p 4Mbps local quality.


----------



## DeDondeEs

Ok so I got a Bolt earlier this week. I hooked Plex up to my Plex server and have had a few instances where the video wouldn't start, but after a few tries it did. 

The one issue I am having is that when I go to play a movie that is in letterbox format, it seems to vertically stretch the movie to fill the whole screen, so everyone looks narrow/skinny. 

The Bolt replaced my Roku that was running Plex that didn't have this issue, it was plugged into the same HDMI port and was accessing the same Plex server, so I don't think it is a TV or Plex server issue. Any thoughts??


----------



## jcthorne

DeDondeEs said:


> Ok so I got a Bolt earlier this week. I hooked Plex up to my Plex server and have had a few instances where the video wouldn't start, but after a few tries it did.
> 
> The one issue I am having is that when I go to play a movie that is in letterbox format, it seems to vertically stretch the movie to fill the whole screen, so everyone looks narrow/skinny.
> 
> The Bolt replaced my Roku that was running Plex that didn't have this issue, it was plugged into the same HDMI port and was accessing the same Plex server, so I don't think it is a TV or Plex server issue. Any thoughts??


Press ZOOM on your tivo remote. Change the tivo display mode from full to PANEL.


----------



## DeDondeEs

jcthorne said:


> Press ZOOM on your tivo remote. Change the tivo display mode from full to PANEL.


Wohoo, that did it. Thanks!!


----------



## epstewart

DeDondeEs said:


> Ok so I got a Bolt earlier this week. I hooked Plex up to my Plex server and have had a few instances where the video wouldn't start, but after a few tries it did.
> 
> The one issue I am having is that when I go to play a movie that is in letterbox format, it seems to vertically stretch the movie to fill the whole screen, so everyone looks narrow/skinny.
> 
> The Bolt replaced my Roku that was running Plex that didn't have this issue, it was plugged into the same HDMI port and was accessing the same Plex server, so I don't think it is a TV or Plex server issue. Any thoughts??


First thing to try is to (while watching live TV) use the Zoom button on the Bolt remote to toggle among Panel, Zoom, and Full. You want Panel. This will have no effect on HD channels, but don't worry about that. It may (or may not) help the image stretch problem you are having with Plex.

Next, I assume you have a widescreen TV. What is the setting you are using for video output format on the Bolt? Look under:



> *Settings & Messages: Audio & Video Settings: Video Resolution: Change Settings*


You will see the Video Output Formats screen, and if you are like me, you will have only 1080p (60 fps) checked. If using "automatic settings" has set things up differently, you can try changing the settings. But if that's no help, you could go back to using automatic settings.

Still having the problem? Next, check whether your TV's setting for picture size or screen format or whatever is causing the issue.

If the issue persists after fooling with those settings for the Bolt and the TV, it's probably a Plex issue. I myself don't have this issue, so there's probably a way for you to correct it in the settings in Plex on the Bolt or in the Plex Media Server on your computer. You access the former by selecting Settings under your Plex user name at the upper right of the Plex main screen on the Bolt. In the Video settings, try different combinations for Local Quality, Allow Direct Play, and Allow Direct Stream.

If none of the above work to solve your problem, post your results back to this thread, and we can discuss possible settings changes in your Plex Media Server ...

Edit: Whoops! While I was typing, jcthorne snuck in with the solution. Glad that simple change fixed your issue ...


----------



## epstewart

The Plex-on-the-Bolt issues persist ...


----------



## razor237

Yup plex is Still useless on the blot for me as well for my friends bolt.


----------



## daphatman

Plex no good for me either. Just makes no sense since it initially worked great.

Have you guys tried pytivo? So far, this is working pretty good for me.

I guess we are a niche and Plex is just not that important to Tivo? Or maybe Tivo is not that important to Plex?


----------



## jkrell

The version on our TiVos is (as far as I can tell) the same as on certain (Opera-based) Smart TVs. So it's not just TiVo. I do suspect this is a Plex problem, probably caused by changes in the latest TiVo software (as I recall, this and the other problems people experienced with HDMI and Netflix all happened after an "upgrade" to the TiVo software.

What's surprising to me is that Plex initially rolled out a new version on 12/23 and had to pull it back due to issues. It's now over a month later and still no new version? Very unlike Plex, who tend to push out updates quickly.


----------



## dtfeld

I can confirm the issue exists on a new Bolt purchased yesterday. 

Plex is running as a service on my WS2012R2 system and happily streaming things out to all other devices including a Tivo Mini, so this is definitely an issue with the latest Bolt firmware and/or Plex Media Server.

I'm pretty happy with the unit otherwise. The remote allowed me to get rid of a Logitech Harmony One remote and the Tivo remote is much, much more robust. The wife is happy with it too!!!!!


Plex Versions...

WEB - 2.5.2
Server - 0.9.15.2


----------



## razor237

daphatman said:


> Plex no good for me either. Just makes no sense since it initially worked great.
> 
> Have you guys tried pytivo? So far, this is working pretty good for me.
> 
> I guess we are a niche and Plex is just not that important to Tivo? Or maybe Tivo is not that important to Plex?


For me Pytivo is not a solution to plex, i have way too many movies. in various Formats.


----------



## dtfeld

razor237 said:


> For me Pytivo is not a solution to plex, i have way too many movies. in various Formats.


I cut .iso files onto my server and use Mymovies to transcode into various formats as required for different hardware capabilities over the years. I have an i3 so not the fastest, but can transcode about 1 movie per hour. Of course I'd love to have something that could play the .iso and stream that...sigh. But most solutions were too clumsy for the wife and kids to reliably use.


----------



## razor237

dtfeld said:


> I cut .iso files onto my server and use Mymovies to transcode into various formats as required for different hardware capabilities over the years. I have an i3 so not the fastest, but can transcode about 1 movie per hour. Of course I'd love to have something that could play the .iso and stream that...sigh. But most solutions were too clumsy for the wife and kids to reliably use.


IMO thats what makes plex so nice, its simple for my wife and kids to use, interface isnt the greatest but it gets the job done and they have tried to streamline it across devices so they are all almost the same. up until the Bolt plex has worked great wit a few hiccups here and there


----------



## shupp872

dtfeld said:


> I cut .iso files onto my server and use Mymovies to transcode into various formats as required for different hardware capabilities over the years. I have an i3 so not the fastest, but can transcode about 1 movie per hour. Of course I'd love to have something that could play the .iso and stream that...sigh. But most solutions were too clumsy for the wife and kids to reliably use.


I am in the same boat as you, my friend. However, I was able to find a solution to the .iso problem. Dune Smartplayers, particularly the HD1. It is a smallish box, plays .iso with full menu support. And best of all, supports mymovies. So when i want to watch a blu ray movie, i power up the dune, it loads to mymovie library, and I am immediately browsing my catalog of isos, with movie posters, metadata, etc. You can set it to start up in your "all titles" library, or show a page of favorites categories like "genres, all titles, kids, etc".

It pulls all the info from mymovies on my WHS2011.

just my $.02. it works very well for Isos, however, we still use plex more to play mkv versions of those same isos. just because i have plex on more devices around the house, than just my two Dunes.


----------



## dtfeld

Shupp872

The bolt get pretty close to what we need, integrating cable, streaming and local content into one box/one remote. With a 4tb drive addition, I think it will be a good option for a while. Wish it had 6 tuners.

I was looking at the HD Homerun DVR with Plex, but it just wasn't getting done fast enough. It might be a good choice in a year or two, but right now remains just a possibility. Price was right if it worked. The biggest downfall of Plex is lack of live TV/DVR. Hopefully they get it working.


----------



## rsday75

jcthorne said:


> Press ZOOM on your tivo remote. Change the tivo display mode from full to PANEL.


When I press ZOOM, Plex crashes. I have several movies I need to change this setting so they will look right.

Sigh. I really wish they would get this fixed....


----------



## epstewart

rsday75 said:


> When I press ZOOM, Plex crashes. I have several movies I need to change this setting so they will look right.
> 
> Sigh. I really wish they would get this fixed....


Yes, Zoom crashes Plex for me, too ...


----------



## daphatman

dtfeld said:


> Shupp872
> 
> The bolt get pretty close to what we need, integrating cable, streaming and local content into one box/one remote. With a 4tb drive addition, I think it will be a good option for a while. Wish it had 6 tuners.
> 
> I was looking at the HD Homerun DVR with Plex, but it just wasn't getting done fast enough. It might be a good choice in a year or two, but right now remains just a possibility. Price was right if it worked. The biggest downfall of Plex is lack of live TV/DVR. Hopefully they get it working.


That's why the problems with Plex are so frustrating... it's so close. However, after getting comfortable with pytivo for my movies, which is pretty solid, there another issue which has caused me to reconsider getting rid of my HTPC's... HMDI passthrough audio. Not having DTS-HD MA. etc. support is actually a pretty big issue for home theater use.


----------



## epstewart

It is in the nature of these things that _someday_ there will be a new Plex version for the Bolt, and there will be a new version of the Bolt software itself. At that point we will see whether our issues have been addressed ...


----------



## rsday75

I have found I can change the ZOOM before I start Plex, and it seems to work.


----------



## g2so

rsday75 said:


> I have found I can change the ZOOM before I start Plex, and it seems to work.


Good to hear. I need to try this and see if it works.


----------



## epstewart

rsday75 said:


> I have found I can change the ZOOM before I start Plex, and it seems to work.


Yes, Zoom works for me prior to starting Plex ...


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> Yes, Zoom works for me prior to starting Plex ...


Guess thats why I never saw that bug. My Tivos are all always in panel mode. I have never seen a need for any of the other distortion modes. At least since I quit using anamorphic DVDs.


----------



## shupp872

It would appear that there is a new version of Plex on all the TiVos as of today. 2.5.5. I don't notice any difference on the Roamios & Minis (still locked at 720p, 4 mbps), but the Bolt seems to play everything, and I haven't had it crash while browsing through the libraries yet. Fingers crossed...


----------



## jcthorne

I do see that folder mode is now available for TV Shows and Movies. Others on plex forum make reference to a new search function but I cannot find it.


----------



## epstewart

Plex 2.5.5 on my Bolt still won't play the movies I tried earlier, from the very beginning at 0:00, and I still have to bump them up to 0:30 to get them to start. This is with the original quality setting. I can't see that it is any improvement.


----------



## jtclark

One of the new features in Plex 2.5.5 is Search, which works with the built-in keyboard of the Tivo Slide remote (it hasn't always been supported in other Tivo streaming apps).


----------



## jcthorne

jtclark said:


> One of the new features in Plex 2.5.5 is Search, which works with the built-in keyboard of the Tivo Slide remote (it hasn't always been supported in other Tivo streaming apps).


Where do you access the search function? I must be partially blind.


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> Plex 2.5.5 on my Bolt still won't play the movies I tried earlier, from the very beginning at 0:00, and I still have to bump them up to 0:30 to get them to start. This is with the original quality setting. I can't see that it is any improvement.


Its odd that I have never seen this behaviour on any of the versions. Wonder what is different with your media files vs mine to cause this. Can you make one of your files that does this available to me on a google drive or some such and I can research. Perhaps figure out what to change and make the problem go away.


----------



## jcthorne

Bunch of updates included in the 2.5.5 release:

https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/1130675/#Comment_1130675


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Where do you access the search function? I must be partially blind.


I can't figure out how to get to the search function from my slide remote or any other way ...


----------



## muzzymate

epstewart said:


> I can't figure out how to get to the search function from my slide remote or any other way ...


For me, the Search "looking glass" icon was in the upper left corner of the various screens. Worked pretty well searching across my various local libraries.


----------



## jimbayne

I had (last time I looked) Version 2.5.4. It has been working fine.
One thing it seems to really only like MP4's converted just right.

Seems to work very well for me... of course now that I'm posting that, it wont ever work again 

I would like a better layout. Images of movies are cool but you have to scan each one to see the actual title. There has to be a better way when you have a lot of movies.... Categories or something???


----------



## epstewart

muzzymate said:


> For me, the Search "looking glass" icon was in the upper left corner of the various screens. Worked pretty well searching across my various local libraries.


Hmmm ... I see no such icon at upper left or anywhere else ... What am I not understanding?


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Its odd that I have never seen this behaviour on any of the versions. Wonder what is different with your media files vs mine to cause this. Can you make one of your files that does this available to me on a google drive or some such and I can research. Perhaps figure out what to change and make the problem go away.


Here are two that won't play from 0:00 for me. One is .mkv and one is .mp4:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B07qnz-SyqYmMHMyblZGLTcwZmM

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B07qnz-SyqYmbk0yaHJTd2NHSDQ

I'm using Original video quality for local play on the Bolt, and I allow Direct Play/Stream where applicable.

This is just a wild guess  I wonder whether the problem has to do with getting audio in proper sync with video. I know that some of my videos get the two out of sync sometimes when play is initiated, and using the << button to back up a bit gets them back in sync. For videos like the above that won't play from 0:00, if I use the >> to move to 0:30, they do start to play. So using << or >> apparently causes the Plex server to re-initiate play, which makes audio/video sync problems and can't-start-play-at-0:00 problems go away.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Its odd that I have never seen this behaviour on any of the versions. Wonder what is different with your media files vs mine to cause this. Can you make one of your files that does this available to me on a google drive or some such and I can research. Perhaps figure out what to change and make the problem go away.


jcthorne, I'm wondering whether you were able to access the videos I posted in the previous post, and if so, were you able to play them in Plex on the Bolt, starting at 0:00?


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> jcthorne, I'm wondering whether you were able to access the videos I posted in the previous post, and if so, were you able to play them in Plex on the Bolt, starting at 0:00?


Just sent you an email with specifics. I was only able to dl one of them but was able to see the trouble with it. Its an mpg file containing mpeg2 video not an mp4 file containing h.264 video. HD mpeg2 still has difficulty for plex / tivo and does not work well at all.


----------



## moyekj

jcthorne said:


> HD mpeg2 still has difficulty for plex / tivo and does not work well at all.


 Yes that is a huge issue with Plex. The only workaround I know to get things working is to limit resolution in TiVo Plex client settings:
Settings--Video--Local Quality = "4 Mbps 720p" (instead of "Original")
That will limit transcoding to 720p which seems to work and won't affect videos that play natively ("Allow Direct Play" and "Allow Direct Stream" enabled)


----------



## jcthorne

moyekj said:


> Yes that is a huge issue with Plex. The only workaround I know to get things working is to limit resolution in TiVo Plex client settings:
> Settings--Video--Local Quality = "4 Mbps 720p" (instead of "Original")
> That will limit transcoding to 720p which seems to work and won't affect videos that play natively ("Allow Direct Play" and "Allow Direct Stream" enabled)


There is word that the new plex version 2.5.5 and the new Tivo version 20.5.9 brings a bit better performance for the pair running on an updated opera browser. Plan to do some testing once I get the update from Tivo.


----------



## rsday75

jcthorne said:


> There is word that the new plex version 2.5.5 and the new Tivo version 20.5.9 brings a bit better performance for the pair running on an updated opera browser. Plan to do some testing once I get the update from Tivo.


Good luck....

For me 2.5.5 on RC21 is a HUGH crash fest.
Almost nothing will play now. Plex crashes scrolling my library, and will rarely play a video. It crashes once I select a video even before I hit play. I have tried various types of video file, same results. This is SO MUCH worse than before.....

Why the hell can't companies leave things that are working alone?
Plex worked great on the BOLT out of the box. Every upgrade has made things worse.

I guess I will try to set things to 4Mbps 720 and see if I can get anything to play. So much for nice 1080p files.......

Beginning to wish I hadn't moved from my Media Center PC.....
The wife is close to wanting the TiVo gone.......


----------



## apw2607

rsday75 said:


> Good luck....
> 
> For me 2.5.5 on RC21 is a HUGH crash fest.
> Almost nothing will play now. Plex crashes scrolling my library, and will rarely play a video. It crashes once I select a video even before I hit play. I have tried various types of video file, same results. This is SO MUCH worse than before.....
> 
> Why the hell can't companies leave things that are working alone?
> Plex worked great on the BOLT out of the box. Every upgrade has made things worse.
> 
> I guess I will try to set things to 4Mbps 720 and see if I can get anything to play. So much for nice 1080p files.......
> 
> Beginning to wish I hadn't moved from my Media Center PC.....
> The wife is close to wanting the TiVo gone.......


I gave up with plex on the bolt. I purchased a cheap roku 2 and it works great. I would keep the bolt and buy a cheap roku if you can.


----------



## jcthorne

rsday75 said:


> Good luck....
> 
> For me 2.5.5 on RC21 is a HUGH crash fest.
> Almost nothing will play now. Plex crashes scrolling my library, and will rarely play a video. It crashes once I select a video even before I hit play. I have tried various types of video file, same results. This is SO MUCH worse than before.....
> 
> Why the hell can't companies leave things that are working alone?
> Plex worked great on the BOLT out of the box. Every upgrade has made things worse.
> 
> I guess I will try to set things to 4Mbps 720 and see if I can get anything to play. So much for nice 1080p files.......
> 
> Beginning to wish I hadn't moved from my Media Center PC.....
> The wife is close to wanting the TiVo gone.......


Good thing I have not had a similar experience. I direct played a movie last night that is mp4, 1080p, ac3 640kbps, about 20Mbps, never hiccuped once during browse or playback. Have found the new version no more or less stable than the previous but then again, I was not having all that many problems with 2.4.6.

We use plex pretty regularly both on our local network and remotely at our vacation home.


----------



## jkrell

Last night, I settle down to watch a movie with my wife. It wouldn't start. I tried the 30 second jump, lowering settings to 4 mbps 720p, turned off AC3. When I dropped to 720p it would play but the audio dropped out every few seconds. Then I turned off AC3 and it played but with horrendous audio sync issues (unwatchable).

In the end, we went to a different TV where I use Plex Media Player embedded on a Raspberry Pi 2. Worked tremendously. And that's a freaking Raspberry Pi!! TiVo/Plex should be ashamed of themselves that they can't get this combo working. I'm not sure who's at fault (my guess is TiVo), but they need to fix this disaster!


----------



## epstewart

jkrell said:


> Last night, I settle down to watch a movie with my wife. It wouldn't start. I tried the 30 second jump, lowering settings to 4 mbps 720p, turned off AC3. When I dropped to 720p it would play but the audio dropped out every few seconds. Then I turned off AC3 and it played but with horrendous audio sync issues (unwatchable).
> 
> In the end, we went to a different TV where I use Plex Media Player embedded on a Raspberry Pi 2. Worked tremendously. And that's a freaking Raspberry Pi!! TiVo/Plex should be ashamed of themselves that they can't get this combo working. I'm not sure who's at fault (my guess is TiVo), but they need to fix this disaster!


Agreed. I likewise think TiVo is mostly to blame, since Plex on my LG smart TV looks identical, suggesting that it also uses the Opera SDK interface, and it doesn't have these issues. These issues began only when TiVo issued its most recent software update on the Bolt.

I sometimes likewise get audio sync issues, BTW, and find they go away if I use the << button to jump back a few seconds.


----------



## Hilbe

Turned off Direct Play/Stream on the TiVo Plex client to get it to work better...


----------



## epstewart

Hilbe said:


> Turned off Direct Play/Stream on the TiVo Plex client to get it to work better...


I did that too and found that forcing on-the-fly conversions of files that otherwise would play/stream directly did usually help ... but sometimes it actually caused problems with files that will play OK using Direct Play.


----------



## jcthorne

For any given video file, plex really only has two choices. Send the video direct as is or re-encode to a known good format.

Its long been known that the Tivo is VERY picky on what HD video files it will play directly. That and very few file servers or PCs have sufficient processing power to re-encode high bitrate 1080p video in significantly better than real time and plex has a dilemma.

If the files are converted to mp4 files that are directly playable ON THE TIVO they work well in plex. Does not matter what your LG or raspberry pi will play. Tivo is more picky.

While pytivo is significantly better and preparing video on the fly for tivo, even it had enough problems that I took to conversion of all video to tivo compatible formats only before storage on my file servers. Funny thing is, those same files play very well on most other devices too.

I am not saying Plex / Tivo work perfectly (they need work) but the work around exists. And once there, I can tell you Plex works very well on the Tivo Bolt.


----------



## moyekj

jcthorne said:


> If the files are converted to mp4 files that are directly playable ON THE TIVO they work well in plex. Does not matter what your LG or raspberry pi will play. Tivo is more picky.


 That's the problem though - it's not what is compatible with TiVo, rather it's what formats the internal Opera browser can play which are even more limiting than the TiVo itself. Obviously TiVos can play HD mpeg2 files without any problems at all, the problem is for Plex the Opera browser can't handle mpeg2 at all so has to transcode. As a result, if you want best experience out of Plex you have to specifically target a format that works for Direct Play to get the most out of it, and that means H.264 for video which is very CPU intensive to generate from mpeg2 recordings. So for me I'd rather use streambaby or pyTivo still seeing as most of my videos are mpeg2.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> For any given video file, plex really only has two choices. Send the video direct as is or re-encode to a known good format.
> 
> Its long been known that the Tivo is VERY picky on what HD video files it will play directly. That and very few file servers or PCs have sufficient processing power to re-encode high bitrate 1080p video in significantly better than real time and plex has a dilemma.
> 
> If the files are converted to mp4 files that are directly playable ON THE TIVO they work well in plex. Does not matter what your LG or raspberry pi will play. Tivo is more picky.
> 
> While pytivo is significantly better and preparing video on the fly for tivo, even it had enough problems that I took to conversion of all video to tivo compatible formats only before storage on my file servers. Funny thing is, those same files play very well on most other devices too.
> 
> I am not saying Plex / Tivo work perfectly (they need work) but the work around exists. And once there, I can tell you Plex works very well on the Tivo Bolt.


You make a lot of interesting points here. I gather you are saying that the TiVo software necessarily re-encodes, on the fly, all videos played through Plex. So if a high-bitrate 1080p video is Direct Play'ed into the TiVo by Plex, there may be problems, but if it's converted (by the Plex server? by the user in advance?) to a format less troublesome, all is OK.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

But the Bolt has a relatively fast processor, so I would think it would be hard to overload it in Direct Play scenarios, no?


----------



## epstewart

moyekj said:


> That's the problem though - it's not what is compatible with TiVo, rather it's what formats the internal Opera browser can play which are even more limiting than the TiVo itself. Obviously TiVos can play HD mpeg2 files without any problems at all, the problem is for Plex the Opera browser can't handle mpeg2 at all so has to transcode. As a result, if you want best experience out of Plex you have to specifically target a format that works for Direct Play to get the most out of it, and that means H.264 for video which is very CPU intensive to generate from mpeg2 recordings. So for me I'd rather use streambaby or pyTivo still seeing as most of my videos are mpeg2.


You posted this while I was tapping in my previous post. You make an interesting point, that it is the Bolt's internal Opera browser that is the root of all evil here. It's the thing that does the extra transcoding step for MPEG2. But correct me if I'm wrong ... if I have an MPEG2 source file and I play it with Plex on the Bolt, as I understand it the file cannot be Direct Play'ed. It has to be transcoded by the Plex server to H.264. So even if I set up the Plex app on the Bolt to allow Direct Play, that setting would make no difference with an MPEG2 source file, right? So the Opera browser would see H.264 and not have to do further transcoding. Or, what am I missing?


----------



## moyekj

epstewart said:


> You posted this while I was tapping in my previous post. You make an interesting point, that it is the Bolt's internal Opera browser that is the root of all evil here. It's the thing that does the extra transcoding step for MPEG2. But correct me if I'm wrong ... if I have an MPEG2 source file and I play it with Plex on the Bolt, as I understand it the file cannot be Direct Play'ed. It has to be transcoded by the Plex server to H.264. So even if I set up the Plex app on the Bolt to allow Direct Play, that setting would make no difference with an MPEG2 source file, right? So the Opera browser would see H.264 and not have to do further transcoding. Or, what am I missing?


 That's correct. Any mpeg2 video you throw at TiVo Plex MUST be transcoded (though note transcoding is done by Plex server, not the TiVo Plex client). Most H.264 sources should be Opera compatible and may just require a remux at most instead of a full transcode. IMO it would be better if the TiVo Plex client spawned off video to play natively rather than in the Opera browser itself, but that would require highly specialized Plex client code just for the TiVo so will likely never happen.


----------



## jkrell

jcthorne said:


> I am not saying Plex / Tivo work perfectly (they need work) but the work around exists. And once there, I can tell you Plex works very well on the Tivo Bolt.


What workaround? I have files that will not play no matter what settings I tweak. And my point above about the Raspberry Pi 2 is that there is nothing wrong with these video files -- they play perfectly no matter what other Plex device I use. Only the TiVo fails.

I think what has most of us pissed is that before the TiVo update (the one that brought new streaming options and other "enhancements") the pairing of TiVo and Plex worked perfectly. It'd play anything I threw at it.

Frankly, I don't care what's happening behind the scenes. One of the main reasons I love Plex is I don't need to know that stuff. It just WORKS. Except on the TiVo Bolt!!!


----------



## epstewart

moyekj said:


> That's correct. Any mpeg2 video you throw at TiVo Plex MUST be transcoded (though note transcoding is done by Plex server, not the TiVo Plex client). Most H.264 sources should be Opera compatible and may just require a remux at most instead of a full transcode. IMO it would be better if the TiVo Plex client spawned off video to play natively rather than in the Opera browser itself, but that would require highly specialized Plex client code just for the TiVo so will likely never happen.


If the h.264 source needs to be remuxed, is that also done by the Plex server? If so, how does the server find out that the client requires a remux for Opera compatibility on the Bolt?

Also, given that the server/Bolt/Opera/Plex combo seemed to be able to handle any video file thrown at it before the fateful update to the TiVo software, what could have changed in that update to mess things up so badly?


----------



## epstewart

jkrell said:


> What workaround? I have files that will not play no matter what settings I tweak. And my point above about the Raspberry Pi 2 is that there is nothing wrong with these video files -- they play perfectly no matter what other Plex device I use. Only the TiVo fails.
> 
> I think what has most of us pissed is that before the TiVo update (the one that brought new streaming options and other "enhancements") the pairing of TiVo and Plex worked perfectly. It'd play anything I threw at it.
> 
> Frankly, I don't care what's happening behind the scenes. One of the main reasons I love Plex is I don't need to know that stuff. It just WORKS. Except on the TiVo Bolt!!!


I agree. The fateful TiVo software update messed things up pretty badly. Sure, things like that can happen in a system that has a high degree of complexity like the bucket brigade from Plex server to Plex client to the Opera SDK interface to the TiVo software itself. But what gets my goat is that TiVo Inc. did not react by either pulling back the update or fixing the problem promptly. Nor have we heard anything definitive from the folks at TiVo that says they comprehend that there are now problems with Plex on the Bolt. G-r-r-r-r ...


----------



## moyekj

epstewart said:


> If the h.264 source needs to be remuxed, is that also done by the Plex server? If so, how does the server find out that the client requires a remux for Opera compatibility on the Bolt?


 Yes, any changes at all to the video are done on Plex server. The Plex client identifies itself to server so the server knows what formats the client supports and then determines what needs to be done to send compatible video to the client.



> Also, given that the server/Bolt/Opera/Plex combo seemed to be able to handle any video file thrown at it before the fateful update to the TiVo software, what could have changed in that update to mess things up so badly?


I think only TiVo can answer that...


----------



## jcthorne

jkrell said:


> What workaround? I have files that will not play no matter what settings I tweak. And my point above about the Raspberry Pi 2 is that there is nothing wrong with these video files -- they play perfectly no matter what other Plex device I use. Only the TiVo fails.


As I said, the work around is to store files on your server that are Tivo direct play compatible.

Specifically, IMSA streaming compatible mp4 container, h.264 video level 4.1 max (strict adherence to this standard as extra reference frames stop tivo cold). AC3 audio at 640kbps max.

I said this is not as it should be. The plex client / server and likely opera browser need work.


----------



## jcthorne

moyekj said:


> That's the problem though - it's not what is compatible with TiVo, rather it's what formats the internal Opera browser can play which are even more limiting than the TiVo itself. Obviously TiVos can play HD mpeg2 files without any problems at all, the problem is for Plex the Opera browser can't handle mpeg2 at all so has to transcode. As a result, if you want best experience out of Plex you have to specifically target a format that works for Direct Play to get the most out of it, and that means H.264 for video which is very CPU intensive to generate from mpeg2 recordings. So for me I'd rather use streambaby or pyTivo still seeing as most of my videos are mpeg2.


Very true. The opera browser playback seems to have removed the mpeg2 capabilities from the tivo playback. Its unfortunate for tivo users as this is the native format for most tivo recordings. I long ago decided not to store any mpeg2 files on the server as they were not compatible with many other devices I use.

Plex is supposed to remove the need to know about file types and encoding parameters, unfortunately the current builds simply do not work to handle it on their own so we are back to manual intervention to get it to work.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> As I said, the work around is to store files on your server that are Tivo direct play compatible.
> 
> Specifically, IMSA streaming compatible mp4 container, h.264 video level 4.1 max (strict adherence to this standard as extra reference frames stop tivo cold). AC3 audio at 640kbps max.
> 
> I said this is not as it should be. The plex client / server and likely opera browser need work.


I'm not familiar with the term "IMSA streaming compatible" ... please explain what this means.


----------



## epstewart

moyekj said:


> The Plex client identifies itself to server so the server knows what formats the client supports and then determines what needs to be done to send compatible video to the client.


Might a problem be that the Plex client on the Bolt is no longer reporting correctly to the server what formats are properly supported?


----------



## epstewart

I still haven't been able to locate any hint of the new Search capability in Plex client 2.5.5 on the Bolt. An earlier post said there is an icon for it in the upper left of the screen, but I've never seen it. Nor is it present on the 2.5.5 screen when I look at it on my smart TV, which has the same screen layout and user interface as the Plex client on the Bolt.

It seems strange that some users see the 2.5.5 Search capability and others don't ...


----------



## atmuscarella

epstewart said:


> I still haven't been able to locate any hint of the new Search capability in Plex client 2.5.5 on the Bolt. An earlier post said there is an icon for it in the upper left of the screen, but I've never seen it. Nor is it present on the 2.5.5 screen when I look at it on my smart TV, which has the same screen layout and user interface as the Plex client on the Bolt.
> 
> It seems strange that some users see the 2.5.5 Search capability and others don't ...


I do not see any search abilities when using Plex on my Bolt either, the only place I see search in Plex is on my computer with it up in a web browser.


----------



## moyekj

epstewart said:


> Might a problem be that the Plex client on the Bolt is no longer reporting correctly to the server what formats are properly supported?


 Haven't seen any evidence of that being a problem. It seems to be attempting to transcode when necessary, but the transcode is not accepted properly by the TiVo.

Note that you can see what Plex server is doing when communicating with a TiVo client in server log file (for Windows):
"c:\Users\<name>\AppData\Local\Plex Media Server\Logs\Plex Media Server.log"

From what I can see in URL when talking to my Roamio Pro the identifier being used is:
X-Plex-Platform=Opera

The profiles can be found in Windows here:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Plex\Plex Media Server\Resources\Profiles\Opera.xml
Above redirects to:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Plex\Plex Media Server\Resources\Profiles\Web.xml

And below is the profile for Web.xml:
(There is no ac3 anywhere in the profile, but I think there's an override on client side that says to allow ac3)
(You can see in profile below the max allowed resolution is 1920x1080)

Note that there doesn't seem to be any TiVo specific profile which I think is what would really be needed to optimally work with Plex.



Code:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Client name="Web">
  <!-- Author: Plex Inc. -->
  <TranscodeTargets>
    <VideoProfile protocol="hls" container="mpegts" codec="h264" audioCodec="mp3" context="streaming">
      <Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts cabac=0" />
    </VideoProfile>
    <VideoProfile protocol="dash" container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming">
      <Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts cabac=0" />
    </VideoProfile>
    <VideoProfile protocol="http" container="mkv" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming" />
    <MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
    <PhotoProfile container="jpeg" />
    <SubtitleProfile container="ass" codec="ass" context="all" />
  </TranscodeTargets>
  <DirectPlayProfiles>
    <VideoProfile container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" />
    <MusicProfile container="mp4" codec="aac" />
    <MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
    <PhotoProfile container="jpeg,gif,bmp,png" />
  </DirectPlayProfiles>
  <ContainerProfiles>
    <VideoContainer name="mp4">
      <Limitations>
        <Match name="part.optimizedForStreaming" value="1" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoContainer>
  </ContainerProfiles>
  <CodecProfiles>
    <VideoCodec name="*">
      <Limitations>
        <UpperBound name="video.width" value="1920" />
        <UpperBound name="video.height" value="1080" />
        <UpperBound name="video.bitDepth" value="8" isRequired="false" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoCodec>
    <VideoAudioCodec name="aac">
      <Limitations>
        <UpperBound name="audio.channels" value="2" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoAudioCodec>
  </CodecProfiles>
</Client>


----------



## epstewart

moyekj said:


> Haven't seen any evidence of that being a problem. It seems to be attempting to transcode when necessary, but the transcode is not accepted properly by the TiVo.
> 
> Note that you can see what Plex server is doing when communicating with a TiVo client in server log file (for Windows):
> "c:\Users\<name>\AppData\Local\Plex Media Server\Logs\Plex Media Server.log"
> 
> From what I can see in URL when talking to my Roamio Pro the identifier being used is:
> X-Plex-Platform=Opera
> 
> The profiles can be found in Windows here:
> C:\Program Files (x86)\Plex\Plex Media Server\Resources\Profiles\Opera.xml
> Above redirects to:
> C:\Program Files (x86)\Plex\Plex Media Server\Resources\Profiles\Web.xml
> 
> And below is the profile for Web.xml:
> (There is no ac3 anywhere in the profile, but I think there's an override on client side that says to allow ac3)
> (You can see in profile below the max allowed resolution is 1920x1080)
> 
> Note that there doesn't seem to be any TiVo specific profile which I think is what would really be needed to optimally work with Plex.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
> <Client name="Web">
> <!-- Author: Plex Inc. -->
> <TranscodeTargets>
> <VideoProfile protocol="hls" container="mpegts" codec="h264" audioCodec="mp3" context="streaming">
> <Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts cabac=0" />
> </VideoProfile>
> <VideoProfile protocol="dash" container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming">
> <Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts cabac=0" />
> </VideoProfile>
> <VideoProfile protocol="http" container="mkv" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming" />
> <MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
> <PhotoProfile container="jpeg" />
> <SubtitleProfile container="ass" codec="ass" context="all" />
> </TranscodeTargets>
> <DirectPlayProfiles>
> <VideoProfile container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" />
> <MusicProfile container="mp4" codec="aac" />
> <MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
> <PhotoProfile container="jpeg,gif,bmp,png" />
> </DirectPlayProfiles>
> <ContainerProfiles>
> <VideoContainer name="mp4">
> <Limitations>
> <Match name="part.optimizedForStreaming" value="1" />
> </Limitations>
> </VideoContainer>
> </ContainerProfiles>
> <CodecProfiles>
> <VideoCodec name="*">
> <Limitations>
> <UpperBound name="video.width" value="1920" />
> <UpperBound name="video.height" value="1080" />
> <UpperBound name="video.bitDepth" value="8" isRequired="false" />
> </Limitations>
> </VideoCodec>
> <VideoAudioCodec name="aac">
> <Limitations>
> <UpperBound name="audio.channels" value="2" />
> </Limitations>
> </VideoAudioCodec>
> </CodecProfiles>
> </Client>


For those using a Mac, the current Plex Media Server log file is:

~/Library/Logs/Plex Media Server.log

Previous log files:

~/Library/Logs/Plex Media Server.log.1
~/Library/Logs/Plex Media Server.log.2
~/Library/Logs/Plex Media Server.log.3
etc.

The Web.xml profile is at:

/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/Profiles/Web.xml

To access it and other PMS profiles, in Finder's Go menu, select *Go To Folder ...* and then paste in:

/Applications/Plex Media Server.app/Contents/Resources/Profiles/

The Opera.xml file is there, but it simply redirects to the Web.xml file. (Which seems to suggest that PMS does not expect Opera to impose any idiosyncratic restrictions.)

The text in my Web.xml file seems to be the same as that of moyekj:



Code:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Client name="Web">
  <!-- Author: Plex Inc. -->
  <TranscodeTargets>
    <VideoProfile protocol="hls" container="mpegts" codec="h264" audioCodec="mp3" context="streaming">
      <Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts cabac=0" />
    </VideoProfile>
    <VideoProfile protocol="dash" container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming">
      <Setting name="VideoEncodeFlags" value="-x264opts cabac=0" />
    </VideoProfile>
    <VideoProfile protocol="http" container="mkv" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" context="streaming" />
    <MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
    <PhotoProfile container="jpeg" />
    <SubtitleProfile container="ass" codec="ass" context="all" />
  </TranscodeTargets>
  <DirectPlayProfiles>
    <VideoProfile container="mp4" codec="h264" audioCodec="aac" />
    <MusicProfile container="mp4" codec="aac" />
    <MusicProfile container="mp3" codec="mp3" />
    <PhotoProfile container="jpeg,gif,bmp,png" />
  </DirectPlayProfiles>
  <ContainerProfiles>
    <VideoContainer name="mp4">
      <Limitations>
        <Match name="part.optimizedForStreaming" value="1" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoContainer>
  </ContainerProfiles>
  <CodecProfiles>
    <VideoCodec name="*">
      <Limitations>
        <UpperBound name="video.width" value="1920" />
        <UpperBound name="video.height" value="1080" />
        <UpperBound name="video.bitDepth" value="8" isRequired="false" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoCodec>
    <VideoAudioCodec name="aac">
      <Limitations>
        <UpperBound name="audio.channels" value="2" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoAudioCodec>
  </CodecProfiles>
</Client>

Zeroing in on:



Code:


 <ContainerProfiles>
    <VideoContainer name="mp4">
      <Limitations>
        <Match name="part.optimizedForStreaming" value="1" />
      </Limitations>
    </VideoContainer>
  </ContainerProfiles>

It looks like the "part.optimizedForStreaming" parameter is important and needs a value of 1 (meaning that, yes, the video has been so optimized, I guess). So, OK, I've been working with jcthorne independently of this thread, exchanging files for the other one to test. I provided him with one of mine that does not play OK on the Bolt, and he gave me one of the same movie that plays fine. One difference is that his has (in PMS's Media Info) "Yes" in two places for "Web Optimized" while mine has "No" in both places. Is "Web Optimized" the same as "optimizedForStreaming"? I would guess maybe so.

I don't know how to get my Blu-ray rips, done by Acrok Media Converter Ultimate for Mac using the "HD H.264 Video (*.mp4)" preset, to have "Web Optimized" get set, and I don't know whether that's even important. But it's at least a candidate for why my files have a problem playing from 0:00 on the Bolt ...


----------



## moyekj

epstewart said:


> It looks like the "part.optimizedForStreaming" parameter is important and needs a value of 1 (meaning that, yes, the video has been so optimized, I guess). So, OK, I've been working with jcthorne independently of this thread, exchanging files for the other one to test. I provided him with one of mine that does not play OK on the Bolt, and he gave me one of the same movie that plays fine. One difference is that his has (in PMS's Media Info) "Yes" in two places for "Web Optimized" while mine has "No" in both places. Is "Web Optimized" the same as "optimizedForStreaming"? I would guess maybe so.
> 
> I don't know how to get my Blu-ray rips, done by Acrok Media Converter Ultimate for Mac using the "HD H.264 Video (*.mp4)" preset, to have "Web Optimized" get set, and I don't know whether that's even important. But it's at least a candidate for why my files have a problem playing from 0:00 on the Bolt ...


There's MOOV atom as part of mp4 container that needs to reside at the front of the mp4 file for it to be "web optimized". There are several tools that can move the MOOV atom to the front for you such as qtfaststart. If you encode with Handbrake and some other encoders I believe there's an option to do it automatically. Note that this is only important if you want to natively play the mp4 as is without even a remux. If you don't have MOOV atom at the front I believe Plex server will just remux to mkv container or similar on the fly which doesn't have the MOOV atom nonsense, but it could be that's what's causing problems for your videos.


----------



## epstewart

moyekj said:


> There's MOOV atom as part of mp4 container that needs to reside at the front of the mp4 file for it to be "web optimized". There are several tools that can move the MOOV atom to the front for you such as qtfaststart. If you encode with Handbrake and some other encoders I believe there's an option to do it automatically. Note that this is only important if you want to natively play the mp4 as is without even a remux. If you don't have MOOV atom at the front I believe Plex server will just remux to mkv container or similar on the fly which doesn't have the MOOV atom nonsense, but it could be that's what's causing problems for your videos.


Thanks. I have been emailing with jcthorne, and he also says the same about the MOOV atom. I am going to play around with the idea tomorrow and see if it makes any difference in terms of my ability to play files from 0:00 on the Bolt. I knew a little once, years ago, about the MOOV atom, in that it had an effect on whether video conversions for use on an iPod worked. Either the MOOV atom had to be at the front of the file, or the opposite, I forget which. I had a technique for accomplishing it, anyway. I will try to unearth what it was. BTW, as a Mac user, I don't have access to much software that runs on Windows. I wonder if ffmpeg can do the trick ...


----------



## epstewart

Using Plex on the TiVo Bolt, some users such as myself have found problems with certain videos not being able to start properly from their very beginning, at time 0:00. After a minute or so of waiting, Plex will say, There was a problem playing this item. You will have to choose Go back.

This problem applies specifically to h.264 video files that are in *.mp4 containers. It may also apply to other container formats such as *.mkv, but I am talking here only about *.mp4 containers. (The *.m4v container format is apparently a synonym of *.mp4.) This problem also seems to exist only on the TiVo Bolts Plex client, and not on other Plex clients. It applies specifically to situations in which the Plex client on the Bolt is set up to allow Direct Play. Also, I have generally found that the problem shows up mainly with sizable 1080p files that I rip from Blu-rays, and not with smaller 480p files that I rip from DVDs.

Ive found a partial solution to the problem.

But first, a discussion of the cause of the problem:

The cause is that the file is not Web Optimized. If you look at the files Media Info in Plex Media Server on your computer, it will say (in two places) Web Optimized No.

This apparently means that the so-called MOOV atom in the file is not at the files very beginning. This atom in a *.mp4 file is metadata that is stored with the file. It describes the data in the rest of the file. When this atom (with all its sub-atoms) is at the beginning of the file, the file is Web Optimized. That means it is optimized for streaming. Such an optimized file is referred to as a fast start file. To learn more about the MOOV atom, see (warning: long-winded):

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/QuickTime/QTFF/QTFFChap2/qtff2.html

Apparently, some video players want the MOOV atom at the end of the file, not the beginning, while some players need it at the beginning. Video converter software such as you might use for ripping movies from DVDs and Blu-rays may or may not create Web Optimized output files. I have been using ACROK Video Converter Ultimate for Mac, employing its HD MPEG-4 Video (*.mp4) format setting, and my output videos have not been Web Optimized.

Now, my partial solution:

This solution applies only to Mac OS X computers such as my own. The solution is to post-process each output file the has been produced by the video converter software. To do this I use the utility application Subler that is available here:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/31647/subler/download

Once I launch Subler, I just select *File -> Open* to open any *.mp4 video file I want to optimize. Once Subler opens the file, I simply choose *File -> Optimize*. An *Optimizing* drop-down appears in the files Subler window, containing a progress bar. After a while, the drop-down disappears. At that point, the file has been optimized. If I now look at Media Info for it in Plex Media Server, it shows (in two places) Web Optimized Yes. If I now play the file in the Plex client on the TiVo Bolt, it will start playing from 0:00 right away!

I call this a partial solution because it involves having to post-process each ripped video file, which takes several minutes per file. But Subler can process multiple files at once, so its not a terrible problem. I am asking the support team at ACROK whether there is a format setting I can use in the future that will automatically optimize my output files.

As I say, this partial fix applies to Mac computers. There are utilities for Windows computers that do the same kind of thing, which is generically referred to as remuxing the *.mp4 file. One remux utility I have heard of for Windows is MP4Box. This page discusses how it is used to change the position of the MOOV atom:

https://www.wowza.com/forums/showthread.php?35005-Moov-atom-in-beginning

It looks like you use it from the Windows command line in this way:



Code:


MP4Box -inter 0 vodfile.mp4

I found this documentation for MP4Box:

https://gpac.wp.mines-telecom.fr/mp4box/mp4box-documentation/

Apparently, "vodfile.mp4" in the code above is simply a generic name for which you would substitute the actual name of the file you want to modify. The input file will be modified in place rather than being copied to an output file. The "-inter 0" parameter ...



> ... will result in the file being stored without interleaving, with all meta-data placed at beginning of the file


Apparently, if you change "-inter 0" to (say) "-inter 1", then the audio and video tracks will be interleaved in 1-second chunks, making for even better streaming optimization. Apparently, "-inter 0" avoids interleaving entirely, which sounds like a bad idea. I frankly don't see the point of moving the metadata to the front of the file in order to optimize the file for streaming, but not interleaving the audio with the video so that hard-drive access is streamlined as much as possible.

I cant vouch for any of this stuff about MP4Box, though, as I dont use Windows.

Anyway, thats my partial solution to the wont-play-from-0:00 problem with Plex on the Bolt. I will be happy to try to answer any further questions people may have about this, but dont count on my having much more information than Ive already shared.

P.S. I cannot guarantee that the partial fix above will do anything to help with other issues such as video stuttering, audio/video sync problems, or Plex crashes.


----------



## jkrell

I got excited that 20.5.9 had dropped when I saw HBO Go was a new streaming option. Alas, I'm still on 20.5.6.RC21.

Any word on when 20.5.9 will drop? I'm starting to consider alternatives for Plex on my main TV (most likely a Raspberry Pi 2) and I'd much prefer to keep it simple and use the Bolt (if they've managed to fix these issues).


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## BigJimOutlaw

Tivo's Support twitter is saying March 5-ish for 20.5.9. That's a Saturday so I'm guessing it's not exact.


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## epstewart

jkrell said:


> I got excited that 20.5.9 had dropped when I saw HBO Go was a new streaming option. Alas, I'm still on 20.5.6.RC21.
> 
> Any word on when 20.5.9 will drop? I'm starting to consider alternatives for Plex on my main TV (most likely a Raspberry Pi 2) and I'd much prefer to keep it simple and use the Bolt (if they've managed to fix these issues).


I'm confused. I am on 20.5.6.RC21, but I see HBO GO ... although I don't have HBO in my Verizon lineup, so I can't activate and check it out ...


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## epstewart

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo's Support twitter is saying March 5-ish for 20.5.9. That's a Saturday so I'm guessing it's not exact.


The rollout of 20.5.9 will surely not happen for all users on the same day, right? It takes time to download to everybody ...


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> The rollout of 20.5.9 will surely not happen for all users on the same day, right? It takes time to download to everybody ...


Yes, they usually roll out updates in waves so as to manage load on the servers. Usually start with the priority update list and then continue on if there are not significant numbers of CS calls from the first wave.


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Yes, they usually roll out updates in waves so as to manage load on the servers. Usually start with the priority update list and then continue on if there are not significant numbers of CS calls from the first wave.


20.5.9 Priority Update requests:

https://www.tivo.com/priority

Have TiVo Service Number of your Bolt ready to hand ...


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## Corndart

jcthorne said:


> Yes, they usually roll out updates in waves so as to *manage load on the servers*. Usually start with the priority update list and then continue on if there are not significant numbers of CS calls from the first wave.


Non-sequitur: The bolded is archaic thinking given how cheap and scalable cloud storage is through a third party. Furthermore, if they're not pushing these down as incremental updates vs. an entire OS upgrade, I'd be quite surprised (or maybe not - Tivo seems stuck in the 90's in some respects).

Oh my Bolt is upgraded with the latest but alas Xfinity/Comcast is not one of the HBO Go partners. bummer.


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## jcthorne

Plex update for Tivo today. I can confirm the search function now works.

February 26, 2016, 2.5.7
This is a stabilization release addressing user reported issues.
NEW:
Updated translations.
FIXES:
Fixed the Search icon missing for some users.
Fixed startup issues on Opera SDK devices primarily including Vizio and Sony.
Fixed trouble signing out on the same devices devices.
Fixed trouble automatically reconnecting to a media server when we display the Unable to Connect to <Server Name> screen.
Worked around bug in Vizio's 1.9 firmware which caused no posters or fanart to display.


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Plex update for Tivo today. I can confirm the search function now works.
> 
> February 26, 2016, 2.5.7
> This is a stabilization release addressing user reported issues.
> NEW:
> Updated translations.
> FIXES:
> Fixed the Search icon missing for some users.
> Fixed startup issues on Opera SDK devices primarily including Vizio and Sony.
> Fixed trouble signing out on the same devices devices.
> Fixed trouble automatically reconnecting to a media server when we display the Unable to Connect to <Server Name> screen.
> Worked around bug in Vizio's 1.9 firmware which caused no posters or fanart to display.


Yippee! I have the search function now, too!


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## jcthorne

Has anyone been able to stream a 4k video via plex? They have published the required format for the video to be in to accomplish this (4k is too processor intensive to recode on the fly so must be direct streamable file)

Essentially web optimized mp4 file containing x.265 video and AC3 audio.

Just wondering if anyone has made it work and what DOES work. Might save me some time from poking around in the dark.


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Has anyone been able to stream a 4k video via plex? They have published the required format for the video to be in to accomplish this (4k is too processor intensive to recode on the fly so must be direct streamable file)
> 
> Essentially web optimized mp4 file containing x.265 video and AC3 audio.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has made it work and what DOES work. Might save me some time from poking around in the dark.


Sorry, I don't know how to acquire a 4K video that I might then convert into the required format, plus I don't have a 4K TV ...


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## jkrell

Anybody receive 20.5.9 yet and tested with Plex?


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## moyekj

jkrell said:


> Anybody receive 20.5.9 yet and tested with Plex?


 No change in behavior from what I was seeing with 20.5.6. Specifically, HD mpeg2 files don't stream properly still if you allow higher than 720p resolution.


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## epstewart

moyekj said:


> No change in behavior from what I was seeing with 20.5.6. Specifically, HD mpeg2 files don't stream properly still if you allow higher than 720p resolution.


So sad! What can be holding up a fix?


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## jkrell

Ugh. No steps forward, one step back...

I have not experienced any improvement in playback. Files that used to play flawlessly still don't and now I have audio issues I never had before, including bad audio sync on some files (not fixable by pausing or skipping back).

Further, Plex used to transcode DTS to DD5 and that is no more. DTS is being output as stereo!!! 8-(

I suspect this has something to do with Plex (not TiVo), as I know DTS playback also got messed up in a recent update to the Android TV app.

What was once a match made in heaven is now pure misery. I guess I'll be hooking up my Raspberry Pi 2 to my TV.


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## epstewart

jkrell said:


> Ugh. No steps forward, one step back...
> 
> I have not experienced any improvement in playback. Files that used to play flawlessly still don't and now I have audio issues I never had before, including bad audio sync on some files (not fixable by pausing or skipping back).
> 
> Further, Plex used to transcode DTS to DD5 and that is no more. DTS is being output as stereo!!! 8-(
> 
> I suspect this has something to do with Plex (not TiVo), as I know DTS playback also got messed up in a recent update to the Android TV app.
> 
> What was once a match made in heaven is now pure misery. I guess I'll be hooking up my Raspberry Pi 2 to my TV.


Did you receive 20.5.9?


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## jkrell

epstewart said:


> Did you receive 20.5.9?


Yes, sorry -- that should have been the first thing I said.

I experienced some HDMI weirdness after the update, was fixed after a reboot. No issues since, other than continued struggles with the Plex app.


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## epstewart

jkrell said:


> Yes, sorry -- that should have been the first thing I said.
> 
> I experienced some HDMI weirdness after the update, was fixed after a reboot. No issues since, other than continued struggles with the Plex app.


I guess we are forced to conclude that Plex-on-the-Bolt support has fallen through the cracks. TiVo Inc. is transitioning to a new leader and a different business model, and laying people off. That may have a lot to do with it.


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## jcthorne

Tivo is not doing the development and most of the recently discovered problems are on the Plex server side (transcoding not correct for Tivo). I doubt the Opera browser will ever really handle mpeg2 well as its tivo specific, most all other hardware players have abandoned mpeg2 long ago.

My gut feel is most of this could be completely fixed if Plex would drop the notion that the Tivo can be lumped in configuration wise with the other opera browser based hardware (smart tvs) and give Tivo its own distinct config file. None of the conversions plex needs to do are outside its capabilities (except 4k stuff) Plex server just does not handle the tivo gracefully.

I still hope for an opera update that does handle the mpeg2 stuff better but there is likely not much demand for it from the developers.


Plex does provide a feature rich and stable UI that our household uses. It just requires me to be diligent in only placing tivo compatible mp4 files on the media server. But I was doing that many years ago for pytivo and streambaby anyway to keep 'difficulties' to a minimum.


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## jkrell

Hooked up my Raspberry Pi 2 w/Plex Media Player yesterday; my TiVo Bolt is sadly just a DVR now.


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Tivo is not doing the development and most of the recently discovered problems are on the Plex server side (transcoding not correct for Tivo). I doubt the Opera browser will ever really handle mpeg2 well as its tivo specific, most all other hardware players have abandoned mpeg2 long ago.
> 
> My gut feel is most of this could be completely fixed if Plex would drop the notion that the Tivo can be lumped in configuration wise with the other opera browser based hardware (smart tvs) and give Tivo its own distinct config file. None of the conversions plex needs to do are outside its capabilities (except 4k stuff) Plex server just does not handle the tivo gracefully.
> 
> I still hope for an opera update that does handle the mpeg2 stuff better but there is likely not much demand for it from the developers.
> 
> Plex does provide a feature rich and stable UI that our household uses. It just requires me to be diligent in only placing tivo compatible mp4 files on the media server. But I was doing that many years ago for pytivo and streambaby anyway to keep 'difficulties' to a minimum.


A useful analysis. Particularly the part about how the use of a config file that is specific to the Opera interface is getting in the way of customer satisfaction with Plex on the Bolt.


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## PBKMS

Did this Plex playing on the Bolt ever get resolved? Resolved as in a patch or update that doesn't require computer science degree to recode and mash up all of my video files to make them half a$$ work on the Bolt?

To say I'm upset is an understatement... I spent a month researching this set up with multiple conversations with TiVo customer service reps and tech's, also conversations with Plex customer service. All of this was timed with a switch of service providers (Frontier to TWC) and I purchased $900.00 in equipment (a bolt, 2 mini's, & MoCa bridge adapter) so all I would need from TWC was a cable card and a tuning adapter.

TiVo tech confirmed, 1 system / 1 remote to watch TV, cable, access internet programs AND PLAY your own media files from my NAS. I was super excited. As single, unified media system that would be straight forward and simple to use for my wife and kiddo's.

==========================
This is what I'm experiencing on my Bolt: I can see the files in the Plex menu, I can select the file and it brings up the metadata page with the poster and basic info of the movie with the option to play, shuffle, etc... Once I click PLAY, I get a small dark box with 3 yellow dots. Then it will time out saying a "unknown error" and file failed to play in time, go back.

Here's what I do know... Plex will play the movie files (480, 720 and 1080) on my PC, iPad and iPhone with out lagging or timing out. Plex will not play a single file on my Bolt.

These same files played flawlessly with my Roku 3 and it was fast and very responsive.
=========================

For those that need tech details, here's my set up:

1 TiVo Bolt

2 TiVo Mini's

1 TiVo Bridge Adapter

New CoAx wired during installation. I also made sure I used high throughput splitters where necessary. Signal tested on each line to ensure it was at 95% or better on signal strength.

HP Envy i7 Core laptop with 16gig ram to power the Plex server

WD NAS with media plugged in to the router, with the laptop and bridge adapter to ensure each has a gigabit LAN port for max throughput.

Everything has been updated to current drivers and firmware's patches.

I've been trouble shooting this set up for 2 weeks, spending hours each day. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the hardware / network set up.

=========================

Thanks...


----------



## Hilbe

Any time I have issues with Plex after an update I just disable Direct Play and Direct Stream in settings. Seems to do the trick.


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## PBKMS

Hilbe said:


> Any time I have issues with Plex after an update I just disable Direct Play and Direct Stream in settings. Seems to do the trick.


Tried it and no change for me. I picked a small file, 11 min. cartoon @ 720P with AAC (MP4 file H.264).

Same error that the video did not start in time, "Go Back"...

Any other suggestions? Has TiVo responded to this error? I saw where they wanted people to email some info, but didn't see where they publicly responded. Possible I missed it in this 9 page novel about the issue.


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## epstewart

PBKMS said:


> Tried it and no change for me. I picked a small file, 11 min. cartoon @ 720P with AAC (MP4 file H.264).
> 
> Same error that the video did not start in time, "Go Back"...
> 
> Any other suggestions? Has TiVo responded to this error? I saw where they wanted people to email some info, but didn't see where they publicly responded. Possible I missed it in this 9 page novel about the issue.


Most of the multiple issues with Plex on the Bolt are still with us.

Try using the "Optimize" function in the "..." menu on your Plex Media Server, after you have clicked on the poster for your problematic video. In the dialog which pops up, you can select Original Quality. It will convert the original video file into a separate "version" (in a new file on your computer). This may take some time to complete.

Now, in Plex on the Bolt, navigate to your video and select the second icon down on the left of the screen (the triangle with three dots). "Play Version..." pops up. Select it and you will then be able to select the new "Original Quality" version. It will probably play OK for you.

This is a cumbersome and time consuming workaround if you have a lot of problem files, though. Very frustrating ...


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## PBKMS

epstewart said:


> Most of the multiple issues with Plex on the Bolt are still with us.
> 
> Try using the "Optimize" function in the "..." menu on your Plex Media Server, after you have clicked on the poster for your problematic video. In the dialog which pops up, you can select Original Quality. It will convert the original video file into a separate "version" (in a new file on your computer). This may take some time to complete.
> 
> Now, in Plex on the Bolt, navigate to your video and select the second icon down on the left of the screen (the triangle with three dots). "Play Version..." pops up. Select it and you will then be able to select the new "Original Quality" version. It will probably play OK for you.
> 
> This is a cumbersome and time consuming workaround if you have a lot of problem files, though. Very frustrating ...


Thank you for the input so far... I'll give it a try with a couple of files and post an update later. Honestly since I have 12 TB of data and no desire to "optimize" all of it, I'll probably keep my Roku's until Tivo gets its act together for streaming local files.

I will however email that Tivo person that posted in this thread to express my frustrations in being told numerous times by Tivo Tech Support that the Plex Media Server works great with the Bolt (and for anyone wondering, yes I explained my set up with the NAS and the file types I wanted to play).


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## epstewart

PBKMS said:


> Thank you for the input so far... I'll give it a try with a couple of files and post an update later. Honestly since I have 12 TB of data and no desire to "optimize" all of it, I'll probably keep my Roku's until Tivo gets its act together for streaming local files.
> 
> I will however email that Tivo person that posted in this thread to express my frustrations in being told numerous times by Tivo Tech Support that the Plex Media Server works great with the Bolt (and for anyone wondering, yes I explained my set up with the NAS and the file types I wanted to play).


AFAIK using a NAS is not going to be the cause of the problem with not starting in time, since many others who have this problem, including myself, don't use a NAS. Maybe using a NAS might cause other problems, though, such as the NAS not being fast enough to transcode a video without stuttering.


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## jcthorne

PBKMS said:


> Thank you for the input so far... I'll give it a try with a couple of files and post an update later. Honestly since I have 12 TB of data and no desire to "optimize" all of it, I'll probably keep my Roku's until Tivo gets its act together for streaming local files.
> 
> I will however email that Tivo person that posted in this thread to express my frustrations in being told numerous times by Tivo Tech Support that the Plex Media Server works great with the Bolt (and for anyone wondering, yes I explained my set up with the NAS and the file types I wanted to play).


I can confirm that I have a Synology NAS containing well over 50TB of media files. A plex server running on a very old low power laptop and using Plex on the Bolt on the local network or on an Amazon Fire a thousand miles away both work and play flawlessly.

The simple truth is that the plex client on the Bolt will only play a very limited set of codecs and media containers. If the file on the plex server, nas or not is not in a format the Bolt can play, the server will have to recode or remux on the fly. If so, its simply a matter of network speed and processor power to make it happen. Not a fault of the software on either end.

If all your files are in the proper codec and just in a non-streaming container, they are relatively easy and quick to fix.

The latest plex version (both server and client) has done a pretty good job of fixing most of what was wrong with the plex experience on bolt. Adding a great search function and good response for even the largest libraries. Roamios still have trouble but that is not what we are speaking of here.

If you really want to get this working, post a few more details and we can help. Its DOES work and work well when set up correctly. Oh, and it matters not what can play on a pc or Roku, they have an entirely different set of codec supports.

What version Tivo software is your Bolt running? What version Plex client and server?


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## lew

jcthorne said:


> ....
> 
> If so, its simply a matter of network speed and processor power to make it happen. Not a fault of the software on either end.
> 
> If all your files are in the proper codec and just in a non-streaming container, they are relatively easy and quick to fix.
> 
> The latest plex version (well when set up correctly. Oh, and it matters not what can play on a pc or Roku, they have an entirely different set of codec supports.


Many Intel processors, including those found in popular NAS systems support CPU baed hardware encoding (quick sync). FFMEG had added qsv support. It dramatically increases encoding speed and reduces CPU utilization.

Plex doesn't utilize this feature. Of course Plex software is at fault.


----------



## jcthorne

lew said:


> Many Intel processors, including those found in popular NAS systems support CPU baed hardware encoding (quick sync). FFMEG had added qsv support. It dramatically increases encoding speed and reduces CPU utilization.
> 
> Plex doesn't utilize this feature. Of course Plex software is at fault.


For the vast majority of content, the video does not need to be re-encoded on the fly so attempting to implement the long list of different hardware encoding types out there today would help little. Mostly for Plex, its a file format issue. It has to be a direct streamable mp4 file to Direct Play. This is a container issue, not a codec one.

Yes, implementation of hardware based encoding help would be nice when needed. Especially as HEVC 4K content comes along, but that is not likely the current issue.


----------



## PBKMS

jcthorne said:


> If you really want to get this working, post a few more details and we can help. Its DOES work and work well when set up correctly. Oh, and it matters not what can play on a pc or Roku, they have an entirely different set of codec supports.
> 
> What version Tivo software is your Bolt running? What version Plex client and server?


Here's the info on my systems (Bolt & Plex were purchased 2 weeks ago):

Bolt = Series 6 20.5.9.RC15-USC-11-849

Plex Media Server = 0.9.16.6

NAS = Multiple WD My Cloud NAS wired to the Router

PC = HP Envy Laptop (2015 edition) w/ Core i7 and 16 GB RAM on Win 8.1 also wired to the router. PC is dedicated as a media server, no other app's running to cause lag or CPU drain

99% of my media files are MP4 using the H.264 codec and AAC audio, ranging from 480, 720 & 1080 resolution.


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## dennya

Tivo Roamio OTA and Tivo Mini, was trying to play 720p video recorded using PlayOn with Plex on the mini, and would always get three dots and a timeout.

Had an Fire TV stick I couldn't figure out a use for lying around and threw it on the TV. Plex streams the same file fine. So, problem solved there. On our main TV (the one with the Roamio OTA), the Xbox One Plex app streams the file fine. And it also streams fine on the iPad, in the Plex app or on a browser.

It's only the Tivo Plex app that's having an issue. 

I know this is a Bolt topic, but it looks like it's an issue across the board.


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> For the vast majority of content, the video does not need to be re-encoded on the fly so attempting to implement the long list of different hardware encoding types out there today would help little. Mostly for Plex, its a file format issue. It has to be a direct streamable mp4 file to Direct Play. This is a container issue, not a codec one.


See What media formats are supported?.

Also, and this is key if you want your media files to Direct Play (and you have Direct Play enabled in the settings on the Bolt Plex client):

*The MP4 file must be "Web Optimized."* On the Plex server, look at the Info, a.k.a. Media Info, for the media file. The video codec (right column) should be H264. The audio codec (also right column) should be AAC (though AC3 works, too). In the left column, under Media, "Web Optimized" must be Yes. In the middle column, under Part, "Web Optimized" must also be Yes.

If "Web Optimized" is No, then when you initiate play on the Bolt Plex client, the Plex server has to search through the entire file to find the crucial 'moov atom' that tells it where the payload video and audio information are in the file. The 'moov atom' is at the very end of the file in this situation. If "Web Optimized" is Yes, the 'moov atom' is at the very start of the file, so that Direct Play streaming can be initiated promptly.

You can use the Plex server's "Optimize" function to (among other things) relocate the 'moov atom' to the start of (a new version of) the media file. You can also use various third-party utilities that have been mentioned in this thread to relocate the 'moov atom'. I discuss some of these utilities in this earlier post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10805945#post10805945

If "Web Optimized" is No for the MP4 media file, then when you initiate play on the Bolt, usually either the media file will not start playing in time and you will get a timeout, or you may get an immediate crash of the Bolt Plex client.


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## jcthorne

PBKMS said:


> Here's the info on my systems (Bolt & Plex were purchased 2 weeks ago):
> 
> Bolt = Series 6 20.5.9.RC15-USC-11-849
> 
> Plex Media Server = 0.9.16.6
> 
> NAS = Multiple WD My Cloud NAS wired to the Router
> 
> PC = HP Envy Laptop (2015 edition) w/ Core i7 and 16 GB RAM on Win 8.1 also wired to the router. PC is dedicated as a media server, no other app's running to cause lag or CPU drain
> 
> 99% of my media files are MP4 using the H.264 codec and AAC audio, ranging from 480, 720 & 1080 resolution.


Two items. your Bolt needs the 20.6.1 update. Much of the most recent Plex updates get enabled with that Bolt update. Sign up for the priority update list.

Your files have content the Plex client can likely play. They most likely need to be remuxed into a web optimized or streamable mp4 container. qtfaststart, meGUI and mkvtomp4 are 3 utilities that can do this remux task. Its a fairly quick procedure taking only a few seconds for each file. Just make sure the audio is 2 channel AAC or 5.1 AC3. Tivo does not support 5.1 channel AAC audio.

Yes, plex SHOULD be handling this on its own. Its not. Perhaps one day.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Your files have content the Plex client can likely play. They most likely need to be remuxed into a web optimized or streamable mp4 container. qtfaststart, meGUI and mkvtomp4 are 3 utilities that can do this remux task. Its a fairly quick procedure taking only a few seconds for each file. Just make sure the audio is 2 channel AAC or 5.1 AC3. Tivo does not support 5.1 channel AAC audio.


jcthorne,

We have had some updates to the Plex server and client software fairly recently. I am now wondering about the advantages vs. disadvantages of:


using media files that will Direct Play (DP)
using files that will Direct Stream (DS) but not Direct Play
using files that have to be transcoded by the Plex server on the fly
See What media formats are supported?. I assume that there are only certain media formats that can be remuxed/transcoded on the fly, though that page does not say which.

If one's media files can indeed be transcoded on the fly, might it not be best to not allow DP and DS on the Bolt client, in the Video settings, since in my experience there can be issues with DP/DS, such as play not starting soon enough and crashes?

And: how does using the Local Quality "Original" video setting on the Bolt client vs. using one of the specific resolutions/speeds lower down in the list affect the answer to the above question?


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## jcthorne

Having ONLY files that are correctly formatted to stream to the Tivo is the best option. Then they always play and no problems. This requires Direct Play to be on.

Troubles start when a file is not compatible to direct play and Plex tries and fails to remux or transcode on the fly. Some work, some do not. Trouble is at the moment, files that should only require a remux fail (Direct Stream) and those that require a full transcode seem to work if the server is powerful enough to do so.

I ONLY store files that are properly built to direct play to the tivo. They also work on all our other Plex clients and populate the metadata and artwork in plex well too. This way I know it works and it has a high WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

Until Plex makes the rest of the formats 'just work' I do not see any real success in doing anything else.

The article you link to shows these requirements:

Container: MP4
Resolution: 1920x1080 or smaller
Video Encoding: H.264 (level 4.0 or lower)
Video Framerate: 30fps
Video Bit Depth: 8
Audio Encoding: AAC

This is not entirely true. Plex on the Bolt supports H.264 level 4.1 just fine and that is pretty common.

Progressive frame rates of 23.997, 25, 30 and 60 all work fine. As do 30 interlaced frames.

Audio can be 2 channel AAC or 5.1 or 2.0 channels AC3. Not DTS or 5.1 AAC.


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## PBKMS

jcthorne said:


> Sign up for the priority update list.


Cool. Here's a dumb question, where do I sign up for the priority updates? I checked the TiVo website and searched it, finding nothing about a priority update.

Thanks!


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## atmuscarella

PBKMS said:


> Cool. Here's a dumb question, where do I sign up for the priority updates? I checked the TiVo website and searched it, finding nothing about a priority update.
> 
> Thanks!


https://www.tivo.com/priority

You have to sign up each time the page is updated to show the next update.


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## PBKMS

jcthorne said:


> TThey most likely need to be remuxed into a web optimized or streamable mp4 container. qtfaststart, meGUI and mkvtomp4 are 3 utilities that can do this remux task.


I appreciate your help and feedback so far and I hate being such noob at this... Based on your advice, I installed MeGUI and I've been trying different settings for my file conversions (remux).

Are you familiar enough with MeGUI to suggest the best file out and audio settings?

My files are MP4's with H.264 w/ AAC audio selected. If this helps, the programs creating the MP4 are PlayOn and MagicDVDRipper.

My preference on MeGUI is the One Click Encoder so I can select a folder source to process several MP4's at a time/ batch mode.

Video Tab:
- video set up - Don't encode video: Unchecked
- video set up - Force key frames for chapters marks, Checked by default
- video set up - Encoder - Default x264: *scratchpad* selected

Filesize: Keep input Resolution Checked.

Audio Tab:
- Encoder: FFmpeg AC-3 w/ 256 Bitrate selected

Output Tab:
- MP4 Container selected

Language Tab:
English selected for both audio and subtitle

Other Tab:
Output folder selected and all remaining settings are default

Thanks!


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## jcthorne

I have used meGUI for years and will admit its user interface is not great for novices. That said, you are on the right track with the one click encoder profile.

I have a one click profile I called tivo remux.

Video tab, check the box for Don't encode video (sounds like yours already have the correct codec settings)

Audio tab, your settings are fine if your only keeping a 2 channel audio track. Would suggest 640 for a 5.1 AC3 track.

Save your profile.

Back at the bottom of the ONe Click Encoder box, Pull down the menu and select show advanced settings. An advanced Config tab should appear at the top. Select it. Down in the output settings area, file size set to don't care. Splitting set to no splitting, container set to mp4 and device type set to IMSA. This is what will give you the web optimized or streamable mp4 output.

Now process some files. They should only take a minute or two each to encode the audio and remux into an mp4 container.

Write back if more questions come up.


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## jcthorne

Update 2.6.5 released

June 2, 2016, 2.6.5
NEW:
Music browsing got easier with the ability to view your music by Artist, Album, and Track.
Our new season view shows episodes in a vertical list format.
FIXES:
TiVo: Allow Direct Play of HTTPS hosted MP4 on system software 20.6.1 and higher.
TiVo: Change our Direct Stream and Transcode protocol to work around extreme A/V desync issues when seeking Direct Stream and Transcode streams.
General: Continuous play of video to video no longer sometimes results in audio but no video.
General: Restore section filters when navigating back to section browsing screen.
General: Performance improvements in our section browsing screens
General: Multiple fixes to our Plex Companion support to better handle communication errors with your media server.


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## matzaala

did the update fix the issues others have had with bolt not playing certain files? i am experiencing the same issue; mini's play all MP4's; however Bolt only plays a handful. think it has to do with them being optimized for web but am hoping an update makes the bolt functionality consistent with mini.


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## jcthorne

My Bolt plays just about everything on my Plex server just fine. Its the roamio currently having difficulty. Roamio and Mini need almost everything transcoded as they are limited to 4mbit and 720p.

Can you give any specifics on files your bolt is having trouble with? What happens?


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## matzaala

seems to be an issue with the file being "web optimized." Majority of my MP4 (H.264) files won't play on the Bolt but all will play on my mini's. Wasn't able to "optimize" all via Plex, with some if the files I receive an error message that the "media version already exists." The main thing that seems odd is that all of these play on the Mini with no problems.


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## epstewart

matzaala said:


> seems to be an issue with the file being "web optimized." Majority of my MP4 (H.264) files won't play on the Bolt but all will play on my mini's. Wasn't able to "optimize" all via Plex, with some if the files I receive an error message that the "media version already exists." The main thing that seems odd is that all of these play on the Mini with no problems.


"Web optimized" means that a key piece of data, the MOOV atom, is at the beginning of the video file, not at the end. This piece of data tells the Plex software on the host computer where in the file the actual video and audio data is. When this atom is at the beginning of the file, streaming can begin right away. When it's at the end, the host software has to scan through the whole file to find it before streaming can start. That takes time and can produce at timeout in the TiVo Plex software. So you want your files to be web optimized. If you have problems playing web optimized video files on the Bolt, I believe they are due to factors other than being web optimized.


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## matzaala

thanks, but still not sure why "non-optimized" files play on the Mini(s) but not the Bolt. Is there a difference in the Plex version between the two platforms?


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## jcthorne

Because the capabilities of the two devices are different, this looks like a case where the video is being transcoded or at least remuxed on the fly for the mini and plex is attempting to direct stream or direct play on the bolt.

The mini is limited to 720p and 4mbit, if the file exceeds that, its being transcoded for the mini.


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## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> Because the capabilities of the two devices are different, this looks like a case where the video is being transcoded or at least remuxed on the fly for the mini and plex is attempting to direct stream or direct play on the bolt.
> 
> The mini is limited to 720p and 4mbit, if the file exceeds that, its being transcoded for the mini.


matzaala,

On the Bolt, you can invoke Settings in the menu at upper right on the screen, then select Video, then Local Quality. If it is using Original, try changing it. Drop the quality down as far as 1.5 Mbps 480p. Then see if your files work OK. At that setting they will be transcoded, which should make your Bolt work like your Mini.


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## matzaala

thanks for the feedback but that didnt seem to fix the bolt not playing the files. From what i can tell, the HAC files need to be optimized in order to play on the bolt, whereas they'll play optimized or not on the minis. Other thing i've noticed is that they need to-be optimized using the Plex app. Optimizing using other tools (handbrake / subler) didnt work for me. of course, this could just be the setup i have. using aimersoft to convert the dvd files and storing them on a synology nas. not a huge deal; just an extra step to optimize the file via Plex. thanks again for the feedback.


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## epstewart

matzaala said:


> thanks for the feedback but that didnt seem to fix the bolt not playing the files. From what i can tell, the HAC files need to be optimized in order to play on the bolt, whereas they'll play optimized or not on the minis. Other thing i've noticed is that they need to-be optimized using the Plex app. Optimizing using other tools (handbrake / subler) didnt work for me. of course, this could just be the setup i have. using aimersoft to convert the dvd files and storing them on a synology nas. not a huge deal; just an extra step to optimize the file via Plex. thanks again for the feedback.


Hmmmm. My experience has been that not having the Bolt play in original quality, i.e., forcing Plex server transcoding, gets rid of the need on the Bolt to do web optimizing on the server, but I can't swear to it. I do use original quality on the Bolt, and I use Subler on a Mac to optimize all my Acrok Video Converter rips from DVD and Blu-Ray. But I have found in the past that some files still won't play in that scenario unless I change the Bolt settings to force transcoding.

Adding to the confusion is that there have been updates to the server and client software since I tried playing many of those files, so I can'tt swear to what the status of these various variables is today. Yet I have to wonder why your experiences seem to be at odds with mine.

By the way, I'm not clear on what you mean by "the HAC files" ...


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## matzaala

sorry - meant H.264 files. when i copied mp4 files from an old network drive to a newer NAS, only files with the H.264 codec would play. That was consistent across all Tivo's - received an error message that the server wasnt powerful enough to play the files. Assumed it was because the NAS wouldn't transcode the same way my Plex Server (via laptop) would. 

I'm pretty new to all of this so it's possible there is something else i'm doing (or not doing) that is causing the issue.


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## epstewart

matzaala said:


> sorry - meant H.264 files. when i copied mp4 files from an old network drive to a newer NAS, only files with the H.264 codec would play. That was consistent across all Tivo's - received an error message that the server wasnt powerful enough to play the files. Assumed it was because the NAS wouldn't transcode the same way my Plex Server (via laptop) would.
> 
> I'm pretty new to all of this so it's possible there is something else i'm doing (or not doing) that is causing the issue.


I'm baffled. I don't know how much time and trouble you want to invest in looking for a comprehensive answer, if simply using Plex server optimization on each existing file solves the problem. I'm mainly curious as to why, for instance, Subler optimization doesn't do the trick as it does for me. (BTW, I use Subler on a Mac. Do you also have a Mac?) I'm curious as to whether this has to do with using a NAS, and whether moving a video file onto the computer itself, as a test case, would affect the issue. Also, I wonder if there is something different between the files you create and those I create by ripping DVDs and Blu-rays using Acrok Video Converter Ultimate for Mac's "HD H.264 Video (*.mp4)" format setting. However, now we're getting into pretty deep stuff.

Your original question was why your files play fine on your Mini but not on your Bolt. The answer to that one is pretty simple, I think. The Plex software on the two TiVo's is different. Always has been. On the Bolt, the Plex software uses an "Opera platform" that is built into the Bolt software itself, but I don't believe the same is true of Plex on the Mini. All the issues that have been discussed in this thread seem to center on that difference. At some point many months ago, a Bolt software update seemingly "broke" the Opera interface as far as the Plex client was concerned, and people began having issues. The best I can tell, further updates of the Bolt software, the Opera interface, the Plex client itself, and/or the Plex server seem to have fixed some or most of these problems, judging by my personal experience and the fact that there are fewer complaints appearing in this thread now. Or maybe people just got disgusted and stopped worrying about it ...


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## TonyD79

What problems were they having. I'm only using Plex for a short while but I haven't had any issues with it on Bolt and I haven't done anything specific on the Plex server with all types of files.


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## epstewart

TonyD79 said:


> What problems were they having. I'm only using Plex for a short while but I haven't had any issues with it on Bolt and I haven't done anything specific on the Plex server with all types of files.


Tony,

People were having certain kinds of video files fail to begin playing on the Bolt. The files were often the h.264 type of files, aka MP4's, of the kind that supposedly could be played in original quality, without transcoding. But attempts to play the files generally resulted in a timeout that caused an error message on the Bolt saying the file did not begin playing. Often, the file would actually play on the Bolt if the user manually advanced it 30 seconds to time 0:30, using the remote. Very mysterious. It seems the problem could be avoided in many cases by "web optimizing" the file using a utility program on the server, or by using the optimize capability of the Plex Media Server software itself.

But it now looks as if updates to the various pieces of software involved may have obviated most or all of these problems on the Bolt. My files play fine now, it seems. All of them are web optimized, so I don't know whether files that are not optimized play properly. BTW, you can look at Info for any given file on your Plex Media Server (PMS) and find out if the file is web optimized. If not, and if you can't get the file to play OK on the Bolt, try optimizing it in PMS.

I'd like to encourage all those folks who posted problems earlier in this thread to report back now and tell us whether they still have the problems. Thanks in advance ...


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## matzaala

eric - interesting point on mac vs. pc. the majority of my mp4 files were created on PC but the couple of times i tried Subler was on a MAC. could be the reason why that wasnt working. 

there are probably a couple of other plex settings i could play with but, you're right, optimizing using plex is a solution that doesnt add too much time or difficulty to the process.

thanks again for your responses; very helpful info.


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## tivoyahoo

I noticed this Plex server update that was applied:
1.0.2.2413 Jul 18 for Windows
and looking at the release notes I didn't notice anything tivo specific, but thought I would check into TCF and see. Searched "1.0.2.2413" on TCF and came up empty. Not sure I'm posting in the right spot. But then I see:



jcthorne said:


> Update 2.6.5 released
> June 2, 2016, 2.6.5


And I'm already a bit lost. Is that the client side version? for Bolt specifically? and is it part of 20.6.1.RC14?

on a network with cable carded Bolt, Roamios, Mini, and an OTA only S3, would I want to keep 2 file versions at the server (Win10 in current case):

1. Optimized for 720p and 4mbit for roamios and mini
2. A bolt optimized version

I guess keeping just one file version could be transcoded on the fly, but there is a user in the household who likes to FF/Rew jump around and figured that plus transcoding on the fly could slow things down vs. having the file already optimized for roamio. maybe that thinking is all wrong?

and does it make any difference as far as plex if a mini gen1 is moca connected vs. ethernet? it can't do gig ethernet anyway, right? having the mini route through the RP on moca and to ethernet to the server doesn't matter does it? vs. putting mini on ethernet switch. just wondering what I can do for the user who likes to skip through scenes / replay things a lot.

Things are working, but I'm sure my configuration barely scratches the surface of what I could do and be much improved and optimized if someone could point me in the right direction. is this the right thread? or is it more focused on serving files only to Bolt?

Is the 4mbit plex cap expected to go up for roamio pro or mini? isn't the hardware capable of much higher? Isn't my old S3 doing much higher ota bitrates than that? so I'm a little puzzled on that.

if that max is here to stay, instead of replacing the roamios with bolts, if I wanted to put an additional device in those rooms that was more in line with bolt plex capabilities as far as 1080p and higher bitrates, and thus only have one higher bitrate version of the file, is FireTv the way to go? recommendations? Thank You.


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## epstewart

tivoyahoo said:


> I noticed this Plex server update that was applied:
> 1.0.2.2413 Jul 18 for Windows
> and looking at the release notes I didn't notice anything tivo specific, but thought I would check into TCF and see. Searched "1.0.2.2413" on TCF and came up empty. Not sure I'm posting in the right spot. But then I see:
> 
> And I'm already a bit lost. Is that the client side version? for Bolt specifically? and is it part of 20.6.1.RC14?
> 
> on a network with cable carded Bolt, Roamios, Mini, and an OTA only S3, would I want to keep 2 file versions at the server (Win10 in current case):
> 
> 1. Optimized for 720p and 4mbit for roamios and mini
> 2. A bolt optimized version
> 
> I guess keeping just one file version could be transcoded on the fly, but there is a user in the household who likes to FF/Rew jump around and figured that plus transcoding on the fly could slow things down vs. having the file already optimized for roamio. maybe that thinking is all wrong?
> 
> and does it make any difference as far as plex if a mini gen1 is moca connected vs. ethernet? it can't do gig ethernet anyway, right? having the mini route through the RP on moca and to ethernet to the server doesn't matter does it? vs. putting mini on ethernet switch. just wondering what I can do for the user who likes to skip through scenes / replay things a lot.
> 
> Things are working, but I'm sure my configuration barely scratches the surface of what I could do and be much improved and optimized if someone could point me in the right direction. is this the right thread? or is it more focused on serving files only to Bolt?
> 
> Is the 4mbit plex cap expected to go up for roamio pro or mini? isn't the hardware capable of much higher? Isn't my old S3 doing much higher ota bitrates than that? so I'm a little puzzled on that.
> 
> if that max is here to stay, instead of replacing the roamios with bolts, if I wanted to put an additional device in those rooms that was more in line with bolt plex capabilities as far as 1080p and higher bitrates, and thus only have one higher bitrate version of the file, is FireTv the way to go? recommendations? Thank You.


I think you should start by creating just one version of each file, using a format that would allow Direct Play on a Bolt. Then see whether the on-the-fly transcoding that is done by the Plex media server for the Roamios and the Mini causes any problems in your household. If no problems arise, you're good to go!


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## ParityBit

So I just hooked up PLEX for the first time. I have just a couple movies on my server (Qnap) and things seems to be fine dfrom my mini's. 

However, when I try to use my Bolt, I click to play the selected file, and it crashes back to the TiVo menu area.

Any idea as to why?


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## bobbypats

I am having the same issue now. I am only 2 months into have the Bolt.


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## Kremlar

ParityBit said:


> So I just hooked up PLEX for the first time. I have just a couple movies on my server (Qnap) and things seems to be fine dfrom my mini's.
> 
> However, when I try to use my Bolt, I click to play the selected file, and it crashes back to the TiVo menu area.
> 
> Any idea as to why?


Because Plex on the Bolt sucks for some unknown reason. 

I've had pretty good luck by disabling Direct Play and Direct Streaming in the Plex settings on the Bolt.

Good luck.


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## ParityBit

Kremlar said:


> Because Plex on the Bolt sucks for some unknown reason.
> 
> I've had pretty good luck by disabling Direct Play and Direct Streaming in the Plex settings on the Bolt.
> 
> Good luck.


What are those two settings for and does it hurt the playback? I can give it a try.


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## Kremlar

https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200250387-Streaming-Media-Direct-Play-and-Direct-Stream

Probably hurts playback quality some I would think, but my Bolt is in my master bedroom and my viewing there isn't very critical. I'd much rather suffer a bit of quality loss when using Plex, versus the file not playing at all unless I go through and re-encode everything to Bolt-friendly settings.


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## ParityBit

Kremlar said:


> https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200250387-Streaming-Media-Direct-Play-and-Direct-Stream
> 
> Probably hurts playback quality some I would think, but my Bolt is in my master bedroom and my viewing there isn't very critical. I'd much rather suffer a bit of quality loss when using Plex, versus the file not playing at all unless I go through and re-encode everything to Bolt-friendly settings.


I finally got around to testing this. I had to deselect Direct Play, then I was able to stream.

Man ... DVD's look bad these days ...


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## jcthorne

The underlying problem with Plex on the Tivo at this time is that the Plex server is not able to tell if a given video can be streamed to the tivo or not.

If your videos are all encoded and muxed into containers that stream to the Tivo, leave direct stream and direct play turned on and it works fast and easy.

If ANY of your videos are not ready for direct streaming to the tivo, turn those two features off thus forcing Plex to transcode (and down rex for Roamio and Mini) every video. If your server can handle the transcoding, it generally works.

pyTivo and Streambaby are both MUCH better at figuring out which videos can be streamed and which need to be transcoded.

Plex puts a pretty face on the collection, does a darn good job of metadata collection and is viewable across multiple platforms.

Truly need the capabilities of both in on app or a way to link them.


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## bcurran3

TiVoMargret said:


> If Plex isn't streaming for you on BOLT, please send email to [email protected] with the subject "Plex on BOLT" and include the following information:
> 
> - your TSN
> - describe what you are experiencing, and if this is new behavior
> 
> --Margret


Well this was completely false.

I sent Margret Schmidt a detailed description of the problem (searching) using my TiVo Bolt and Plex last week.

I set it with a read request.

Today I got back:

Your message

To: Margret Schmidt
Subject: Plex on BOLT
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2016 7:23:32 PM (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada)

was deleted without being read on Monday, September 12, 2016 6:00:55 PM (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada).

BOO TO YOU FOR OFFERING HELP AND THEN NOT DOING IT.

She's a VP? She couldn't read it and delegate it to someone?

Yes, I'm pissed I got ignored.


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## rahnbo

Are there any resolutions to this? I'm almost done with a new gaming rig build and want to dedicate my old rig with massive storage space to serving up plex files to my Bolt+

I set it up last night and it worked great through two movies. Now any time I play any movie is will play for 2-5 minutes then I get the 3 yellow dots. Even the movies I watched all the way through just yesterday get the dots after a few minutes.


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## Kremlar

Plex has been reliable for me on by Bolt lately, though admittedly I'm watching less through Plex than before. Mostly some TV show rips that I made from Blu-Ray. Not sure if something changed to improve things, or if I'm just using it less, but I have nothing to complain about at the moment.


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## skisquash

This is an ongoing issue. 

Tivo tech support has said for the last 2 months that they have figured out the fix and the new version is being pushed out (early Feb'17). Still a total mess. Tivo doesn't seem to care about Plex or any streaming app quality. Why even offer it at all? Disappointed and frustrated.


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## Hilbe

Latest version of PMS seems to cause "..." to show on the screen. Fix is to downgrade to an older PMS.


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## jcthorne

Its been fixed. Works fine with current version of server now.


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## Phil_C

jcthorne said:


> Its been fixed. Works fine with current version of server now.


A couple of questions for Plex users. (I have never used Plex.)

I have a Plex apps on my TiVo Premiere and Synology NAS DS716+II. If I understand this correctly, I can use these devices/apps to stream movies from the NAS via DLNA to the TiVo.

1) Will I be able to control the movie using the TiVo remote?
2) Will I be able to turn subtitles on and off with the remote?
3) Will chapter marks be usable?

My files are mostly .mkv with .srt subtitles muxed in.

Thanks for any help!


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## JYoung

Phil_C said:


> A couple of questions for Plex users. (I have never used Plex.)
> 
> I have a Plex apps on my TiVo Premiere and Synology NAS DS716+II. If I understand this correctly, I can use these devices/apps to stream movies from the NAS via DLNA to the TiVo.
> 
> 1) Will I be able to control the movie using the TiVo remote?
> 2) Will I be able to turn subtitles on and off with the remote?
> 3) Will chapter marks be usable?
> 
> My files are mostly .mkv with .srt subtitles muxed in.
> 
> Thanks for any help!


1. Yes.
2. Yes but I find it to be a tad clunky.
3. No. The only Plex client I've seen that has support for Chapter marks is the Apple TV client.

To be blunt, I don't care much for the Plex client on the Bolt.
It's _okkaayyy_ (wobbles hand) but I find that the Plex clients on Roku and Apple TV to be superior.
The Bolt client seems to handle H.264 video fine but can be hit or miss on audio (I'm not sure it likes AAC audio). But I admit that I haven't played with it that much as subtitle control is superior on the Roku and far superior on the Apple TV 4.

Still, in your situation, it will cost you nothing to try it out.
Head over to Plex and get an account to give it a whirl.


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## Phil_C

Holy cow, is this app terrible! I'm on the Premiere, which must be slower than the Bolt, but that's not the real problem. I can only get 2-channel stereo out of 5.1 movies. And if the aspect ratio is anything other than 16:9, the picture is stretched to fill the screen and can't be fixed properly with any TV adjustments. FF and REW cause errors. Subtitles do work properly.

I'll stick with other DLNA devices.


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## JYoung

I think the general consensus is that all the other Plex clients are better than the TiVo Plex Client.


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## Fant

Plex uses the stretch setting on your TiVo .. so exit plex .. change stretch setting ... then launch plex again .. no problems here passing 5.1


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## jcthorne

The Premiere only supports 5.1 as ac3 so if the files you are trying to view have any other sound track than a 5.1 ac3 audio, plex will transcode on the fly to 2 channel audio.

The stretch issue was mentioned above how to solve. The FF and RW issues are your Premiere is just too slow to run the Plex client effectively.

On a Bolt, Plex is quite responsive and plays the files in native resolution and 5.1 audio just fine if the files being played are correctly encoded.


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## Phil_C

jcthorne said:


> The Premiere only supports 5.1 as ac3 so if the files you are trying to view have any other sound track than a 5.1 ac3 audio, plex will transcode on the fly to 2 channel audio.
> 
> The stretch issue was mentioned above how to solve. The FF and RW issues are your Premiere is just too slow to run the Plex client effectively.
> 
> On a Bolt, Plex is quite responsive and plays the files in native resolution and 5.1 audio just fine if the files being played are correctly encoded.


To be clear, are you saying the Bolt+ with Plex, besides streaming 5.1 ac3, will also stream 5.1 AAC and 5.1 DTS?


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## jcthorne

No, no Tivo supports 5.1 AAC or DTS or 7.1 AC3 for that matter.


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## Cheap Flyer

Yes, no DTS on TiVos. They probably do not want to pay the licensing fees for the 1% of users that will run into this.

What's annoying is Plex down converts DTS to two channel stereo instead of a codec that supports 5.1 channel. Really annoying.


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