# my experience moving from HTPCs running WMC to a TiVo Bolt + Mini setup



## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi -

Wanted to post my story, along with some thoughts from a guy moving from HTPCs (Windows Media Center + MediaBrowser) to a TiVo setup. I've used WMC for much longer, but my current HTPCs are about 4.5 years old (a few newer), running a mix of Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. I had a TiVo decades ago before switching to HTPCs.

My HTPC setup consisted of small form factor i3-based HTPCs in every room (some Habey chassis, a couple NUCs). All ran SSDs with 8GB RAM so performance was very good. All connected to a SiliconDust HD HomeRun (rare 6 tuner version) installed on my rack through ethernet. Technically gigabit, but because of an issue SiliconDust had with my Intel motherboard NICs most were locked down to 100Mbps to avoid pixelization.

My main HTPC in my master bedroom had a larger chassis and Ceton PCIe 4 tuner card all to itself. This HTPC did most of the recordings in the house and had a shared Recorded TV folder. The small HTPCs in other rooms moved any recordings to this main HTPC nightly, so pretty much any HTPC had access to all recordings. I couldn't manage recordings from the small HTPCs but it worked well enough.

Ripped movie playback was done through MediaBrowser which worked very well. I used the old school Microsoft WMC remote controls, which I love, to control my HTPC and TV power on/off/volume/etc. except for my theater room where I have a nice URC remote.

I initially chose not to go with WMC extenders because I did not like the various limitations and overall experience - large/loud/hot Xboxes, limited video format playback, excessive power use or slow bootup (your choice), etc. The lack of development, pending death of WMC and inability to use Netflix and Amazon Prime through a consistent and reliable remote control interface drove me to look elsewhere. 

I purchased a few Fire TV Sticks to try out and although I loved the streaming options the performance was pretty poor in the interface, and also intermittently in the Netflix app. Switching between the HTPC and Fire TV Stick was an issue - a couple of TVs experienced HDMI handshaking issues. After hours of troubleshooting I ended up using a HDMI booster I had kicking around which fixed the issue 99% of the time on 1 TV, and I just dealt with the issue on the other. I also purchased a couple inexpensive remote controls to replace my Microsoft remotes so we could easily switch between inputs with 1 remote, etc. I still had a 2 remote experience because of the Fire TV Stick.

After some thought I felt this was not the right road to be on. I was kind of hacking things together with cheap remotes, HDMI boosters, WiFi Fire TV sticks, etc. and was getting no real advantage out of it. I'm a geek at heart so I don't mind going the difficult route as long as there are clear advantages, like I thought there were when initially going with HTPCs, and as long as I can keep things simple and trouble-free for the family. Sure, I could go with $100 Fire TVs and nicer universal remotes to provide a better experience, but with the multiple TVs I have it seemed silly to spend that money and go that route. I decided instead to go with a TiVo setup.

I recently got through replacing most of my HTPCs with a TiVo setup. I went with a TiVo Bolt and upgraded it to 4TB for the master bedroom, and purchased 4 TiVo Minis for other rooms in my house. For the remainder of the TVs I decided to just use the Fire TV Sticks as live TV is not really needed in those rooms. I may also keep a HTPC around for my theater depending on the quality of the TiVo Plex app.

I have to say, I'm loving it so far. The Bolt upgrade to 4TB wasn't bad once I found the right procedure - as far as I know I was the first to do it on a Bolt. This gives me 490 HD hours of storage according to the Bolt, which is way more than I had in my old HTPC. No more HDMI handshake issues, interface is clean and intuitive, and it's nice knowing development is ongoing.

Managing recordings and streaming using the available apps seems great, though I haven't used the streaming much yet (don't have much of a need, but the kids may like it). The Bolt interface is blazing fast, even faster than my WMC setups which I thought were very quick. The Minis do not perform quite as well as the Bolt in the TV interface, but performance is still very good - probably on par with my WMC HTPCs as far as guide browsing, channel changing, etc. Netflix and Amazon Prime apps load blazing fast on the Bolt, and still pretty quick on the TiVo Minis. Even the Minis provide a superior interface to the Fire TV Sticks in those apps. Managing recordings from the Minis is also great - a feature I lacked with my HTPC setup. I love how TiVo organizes the recordings with OnePass, giving me locally stored and streaming options in the same interface.

The included RF remotes are very good, though the quality of the SlidePro remote is better (got one of those for the master bedroom). No more IR blasters off my HTPCs (for the kitchen counter TV, etc.). It controls all my TVs and soundbars except for the Epson projector in my theater room. I have a URC remote there anyway, so that's not a big issue. I could always upgrade that one to a SlidePro as well if I decide I want to keep using the TiVo remote there. I haven't gotten around to programming my URC remote yet. The find remote feature on the Bolt is fantastic, but I don't believe the Mini has that option.

I have not tackled ripped movie playback yet, but I anticipate moving from MediaBrowser to Plex. I hear the Plex experience on the Mini is not fantastic and limited to 720p, but I also hear it's 1080p and great on the Bolt. I will post back once I get that done.

My plan is to replace my Minis next year when TiVo updates them to match their new Bolt. I don't care so much about 4K, but do like the processor/memory/speed improvements on the Bolt allowing for the faster interface and presumably 1080p support in Plex. I also hope they'll add a remote finder feature. At that point I hope to ride the Cable Card wave as long as it will take me, hopefully another 5+ years. By then I'm sure it will be a whole new ballgame.

I'm now paying $150 per year for service, but I don't think that's bad at all - espeically when it includes a partial warranty on the equipment. I would have gladly paid that to Microsoft for continuted Windows Media Center development. I will lose tuners, but for reliability all my PCs were locked down to 1 tuner each on my SiliconDust anyway. The reliable TiVo tuner pooling should be more efficient, give me greater flexibility, though if they had a 6 tuner version of the Bolt I would have definitely gone with that. I'm hoping 4 tuners will be enough, especially as streaming from Netflix & Amazon Prime becomes more and more prevalent. I will save about $10 per month on Cable Card fees.

I plan on re-using 2 of my HTPCs as extra PCs for my younger kids. They like to have buddies come over and play Minecraft and other games together on occasion, so they are really looking forward to having a couple extra PCs to use and share. The rest I can sell, along with my HD HomeRune Prime and Ceton card, Microsoft remotes, etc.. I suspect I will come close to breaking even which made this a no-brainer for me. 

My total cost in was under $1000 including the Minis, SlidePro remote and 4TB hard drive upgrade and I feel like I've gotten a much improved experience already - and my wife and kids agree.

Will post back as I get more experience with the TiVo, and also once I get Plex setup.

Hope my info & experience might help others looking to do the same.


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## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

very interesting. thanks for taking the time with this post. I'd love to know how you did the 4TB upgrade.


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## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi -

My 4TB upgrade thread is here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=532579


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## georgeorwell86 (Sep 15, 2015)

Same here....recently made the switch from WMC to Tivo...in part because of the lack of progress by SD on their kickstarter project. Wife and kids love Tivo...so therefore it's been a great success. 

BTW...I've never been a fan of Plex, as I mostly use Kodi on the FireTV. But I find it works very well on Tivo. It was very easy to show the rest of the family where to find it in the Tivo menu....so now they can enjoy all of our local files, in addition to all the Tivo content.


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## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I love MediaBrowser but it seems with TiVo there's no other option comparable to Plex. From what I understand the Plex app should be moving out to where Netflix/etc. is soon, which seems like a more appropriate place for it.


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## Craig-Tx (Oct 6, 2015)

Well, put me down as another WMC convert. I know the Bolt was advertised as a way for TiVo to bring in new subscriptions as opposed to just being loyal to existing users. This post seems to indicate that their plan is working.

I too have been using WMC (Win 7) with a Ceton 4 tuner PCI card. I also have a Ceton Echo for an upstairs TV, but it was rarely used. My kids are young and they took to the Netflix for Kids app quite well on the Vizio TVs. They didn't care to learn the WMC stuff.

So, I purchased the BOLT to replace the dying WMC machine. The machine wasn't dying, but the service certainly was. Perhaps it was only my experience, but I found the Guide data on WMC to be less than reliable as of late. 

Like you, I've had TiVo before (years back with a few DirecTiVo Series 1 / Series 2 units.) My wife was happy when I showed her the peanut remote.

Also like you, I plan on repurposing the WMC machine as a computer for the kids.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

yeah when I got a Roamio last year, I sold off my Ceton 4 tuner card and repurposed the machine as 2nd computer for family as well. 

Tivo is just higher on the WAF scale. 

The extender situation was better. Same with the remotes. And Tivo was still supporting it. Then the streaming and the extra tuners made me switch. 

I wished WMC had better extenders, a standard remote and the ability to use a mouse for Windows and remote for WMC simultaneously.


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## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

I was really hoping for Microsoft to drive a unified experience like TiVo is striving for now. They had the right idea years ago and integrated Netflix pretty quickly, but the app got old fast and was never updated. They never pushed to bring other content on board and just let it drag.

TiVo seems to have the right idea now in my eyes as far as bringing in streaming content to supplement cable/OTA. My 16 year old loves the Mini he has in his room. Too bad they didn't somehow integrate Android to bring in all those apps, but if they are able to port over at least a few more key ones that would be huge - at least for me.


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## cybergrimes (Jun 15, 2015)

Kremlar said:


> I was really hoping for Microsoft to drive a unified experience like TiVo is striving for now. They had the right idea years ago and integrated Netflix pretty quickly, but the app got old fast and was never updated. They never pushed to bring other content on board and just let it drag.


They really did-- I'll always wonder what kind of numbers they were seeing to make them decide not to push it further. They were going in a great direction with WMC/Extenders and even Windows Home Server but then just let it all die off. Maybe it was the change in leadership? I think that's part of the problem with these large corporations being so diversified, it's easy for them to drop something like this with all the other products they're selling/developing.

Microsoft could have been at the forefront of the streaming appliance space by packing the WMC experience in a small set top box but they missed that boat. I guess Xbox is that device but with needing 3rd party tuner, external hard drives and no cable card it seems like more of the same half ass attempt.

Google did it too with Google TV launching back in 2010, having abandoned the product and a couple million customers within a few years to simply start over again with Android TV.


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## Andrew_S (Nov 12, 2001)

I'm very close to moving back to Tivo after using Windows Media Center for the last 5 years. Microsoft seems to be hastening the pace of it's demise lately. The guide data since the turnover hasn't been great. After living without HDMI handshake issues for the last 2 years, they are suddenly back with a vengeance. I'm ready to return to the simplicity of a purpose built device. My biggest concern is losing Emby as I have a collection of DVD's and BluRays that I have stored and I've never had good luck with Plex.

My future is either Tivo or replace my Ceton with a HD Homerun and hope their project supports encrypted TV channels.


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## Andrew_S (Nov 12, 2001)

cybergrimes said:


> Google did it too with Google TV launching back in 2010, having abandoned the product and a couple million customers within a few years to simply start over again with Android TV.


I think you misspelled 'hundred'. "a couple hundred customers within a few years...". Google TV was a complete and utter failure from day 1.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Andrew_S said:


> I think you misspelled 'hundred'. "a couple hundred customers within a few years...". Google TV was a complete and utter failure from day 1.


I am sure it was more than 2 million sold, there were about a dozen models and it was the best streaming box for my needs. I still use it, and I also own all of the popular boxes, Chromecast, Roku, Apple TV, and Amazon Fire TV. Since it evolved into Chromecast and Android TV, I would agree it was a failure as far as market goes, 2+ million isn't even close to enough to be viable.


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## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

Stayed up late last night removing Emby and cleaning up my library, removing existing metadata, renaming everything to conform with the Plex recommended conventions, also ripping anything I still had in DVD format (VIDEO_TS) to MKV, then loading up Plex on my server. Renaming my media and ripping to MKV took a while but I was on a mission. 

Installing and configuring Plex was surprisingly simple. Connecting the TiVo app was even easier (just type in a 4 digit PIN), and I'm happy to say that it is working great! Cover art filled in completely, which amazed me. With Emby I always had to tune things to get the metadata picked up properly.

I was afraid of what performance and quality on the Minis might be like but I have to say I'm 100% happy with the results. I have not given it a critical eye in my theater, but the Minis are primarily located in casual viewing rooms and I'm more than happy. My server is an Intel X3430 @ 2.4 GHz with 8GB RAM. I streamed 2 movies through Plex at the same time and noticed no drop in performance. I did not try a 3rd, but with all the other content available I doubt we'd have 3 locally stored movies streaming at once.

The interface is a bit barebones, but no worse than the Emby app was on the FireTV stick (actually I think the Plex app is better). Emby on WMC was definitely a superior interface to Plex on TiVo, but Plex is definitely more than acceptable for our use.


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## rsday75 (Oct 8, 2015)

Andrew_S said:


> I'm very close to moving back to Tivo after using Windows Media Center for the last 5 years. Microsoft seems to be hastening the pace of it's demise lately. The guide data since the turnover hasn't been great. After living without HDMI handshake issues for the last 2 years, they are suddenly back with a vengeance. I'm ready to return to the simplicity of a purpose built device. My biggest concern is losing Emby as I have a collection of DVD's and BluRays that I have stored and I've never had good luck with Plex.
> 
> My future is either Tivo or replace my Ceton with a HD Homerun and hope their project supports encrypted TV channels.


I too used emby and WMC. Just switched to the Bolt and Plex. I had tried Plex 2-3 years ago and was not impressed. Just reloaded Plex and I am really impressed. The Plex server identified all my media and the implementation on the Bolt is a Plex Theater clone and seems solid. I would bet it will only get better with time. I have removed Emby and Kodi for a Plex only solution on the Tivo and FTV sticks and boxes. The wife and kids are very happy.


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## JimAV (Aug 22, 2013)

This is an interesting thread. I used to work at a company that had a large number of WMC systems installed. Customers pretty much had to drag us kicking and screaming to do it. But, we did. It always seemed like a kludgy 90% solution to me. The initial costs were lower than our other methods, BUT that was soon overcome by the cost of ownership. Now I have my own company and I'm all TiVo all the way. I have two types of customer, those that have TiVO and those that will eventually get TiVo.


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## jwort93 (Dec 18, 2015)

Glad you are liking the TiVo Bolt w/ Minis! I recently switch from a Ceton & WMC w/ Xbox Extenders to a setup with a Bolt and Minis as well, and it is definitely a large improvement.


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## jesrush (Nov 7, 2015)

Good post OP - thanks for sharing.

I had a similar experience switching from WMC to Bolt. My review is here.

The thing I miss most is completely automated commercial skipping with Comskip, but the 30 second skip button is "good enough."

I've not been impressed with the Plex app on Bolt unfortunately - it's buggy as hell. Crashes several times a week during media browsing, photo slideshows, etc. Plex has leapfrogged Emby over the past year or two in functionality, but I wonder if the Tivo platform has enough customers for Plex to actually focus on fixing/improving it. We bought an ATV4 and do most of our streaming apps (plex, watchESPN, etc.) on that now - very happy with it.


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## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

> I've not been impressed with the Plex app on Bolt unfortunately - it's buggy as hell. Crashes several times a week during media browsing, photo slideshows, etc. Plex has leapfrogged Emby over the past year or two in functionality, but I wonder if the Tivo platform has enough customers for Plex to actually focus on fixing/improving it. We bought an ATV4 and do most of our streaming apps (plex, watchESPN, etc.) on that now - very happy with it.


I agree, since my original post TiVo has pushed out an update that has caused Plex to become unstable. They seem to have fixed some of the issues since then but Plex does still crash intermittently.

My biggest complaint is tuner management - there needs to be an easier way to kick a tuner when all tuners are in use. When all tuners are in use there should be a pop up prompting you to choose a tuner to kick. If the tuner is in use by another device they a pop up can appear there give the user time to cancel a request.


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## ScottFL (Dec 14, 2015)

Kremlar said:


> I agree, since my original post TiVo has pushed out an update that has caused Plex to become unstable. They seem to have fixed some of the issues since then but Plex does still crash intermittently.
> 
> My biggest complaint is tuner management - there needs to be an easier way to kick a tuner when all tuners are in use. When all tuners are in use there should be a pop up prompting you to choose a tuner to kick. If the tuner is in use by another device they a pop up can appear there give the user time to cancel a request.


Agree that would be a nice feature.


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## razor237 (Feb 1, 2002)

jesrush said:


> Good post OP - thanks for sharing.
> 
> I had a similar experience switching from WMC to Bolt. My review is here.
> 
> ...


When the Plex app works its great , looks even better when i have the Bolt set to only output 4K i think at least  ... I think plex is committed on making there product great on every main stream product and tivo is no exception. They just need to tweak the app some for the bolt, i use plex on my roamio's as well and it works great non of the issues i have with the bolt. I just hope they get it fixed soon cause the wife and kids are not as Patience as i am


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## armyb77 (Aug 18, 2010)

Hello,
I am thinking about making the switch to the Tivo Bolt. I am wondering if the mini is really needed since there is a Fire TV app available. I don't have a Tivo so I cant review the app to see if it meets my needs. Can someone tell me if the Fire TV app works for live TV and recorded content? It would only be used in the house. 

Currently I have 1 HTPC with 2 HDHOMERUN Primes. I'm running Windows 7 WMC with Emby. I have 3 other tvs, and they use the Emby to watch content. The live TV however is restricted to nom-DRM content. I have FiOS so most of my content is not flagged but it seems to be changing.

Any info on the pros and cons of a Bolt/FireTV setup would be appreciated!

~armyb77


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## Kremlar (Jan 22, 2009)

I believe the FireTV app is only for recorded TV, and it's very rudimentary. I'd highly recommend a Mini.


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## armyb77 (Aug 18, 2010)

Kremlar said:


> I believe the FireTV app is only for recorded TV, and it's very rudimentary. I'd highly recommend a Mini.


Thanks for your response!:up:


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