# Convince me to go TiVo over TWC's leased DVR?



## Skullbussa (Mar 19, 2010)

I come here as a complete newbie but after seeing videos of the Premiere in action I am left desiring the much-improved UI of that device over Time Warner Cable's clunky DVR that I am currently leasing.

That said, I am having a really hard time justifying the expense of a TiVo Premiere as it seems to me the dollars just do not add up.

Here is my situation:

-Time Warner cable
- living room TV connected to leased HD-DVR ($15.25 a month)
-bedroom TV connected straight to jack, no set-top box

I don't care about having 2 DVRs....one in the living room is enough. However, I would really like to have some sort of box for the bedroom TV so I can have guide access. A non-DVR HD box is $7.50 monthly. 

Premiere - $300
Annual Service - $130 (~$11 a month)
CableCARD - $2.75 a month

It seems the monthly rate is essentially a wash vs. leasing a DVR. In other words, I'm paying $300 for an upgraded UI. This isn't taking into consideration any technical difficulties I have getting my TiVo configured with TWC, something I don't need to worry about with a leased DVR.

Can someone convince me my #s are wrong or if I am missing some part of the bigger picture?


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## poopsie (Dec 28, 2003)

You pay for luxury and convenience with Tivo. If you can afford a BMW, but a Camry is good enough for you then go with the Camry. You really have to have used one to appreciate it. Does the cable DVR do Netflix? Does it transfer shows to your computer to watch at another time? Does it stream Youtube? Does it stream your music and pictures from your computer? If you need those, get a Tivo. If you want a great UI and Tivo functionality, then you do pay for it. Otherwise, save the money and get the cable DVR. Plus, you will not have VOD with Tivo, so if that matters it could be a deal breaker right there.


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## rage777 (Aug 19, 2006)

Skullbussa said:


> I come here as a complete newbie but after seeing videos of the Premiere in action I am left desiring the much-improved UI of that device over Time Warner Cable's clunky DVR that I am currently leasing.
> 
> That said, I am having a really hard time justifying the expense of a TiVo Premiere as it seems to me the dollars just do not add up.
> 
> ...


Not sure anybody has to "convince" you to go to Tivo, if you want to do it, if you don't then don't do it. I can tell you what I like about my Tivo and then let you decide.

I don't buy my Tivo's with monthly or yearly subscriptions, I buy the lifetime. So I needed to factor in how long I am going to keep my Tivo. I have had my Series 2 for about 5 years now. If I paid $15/month over 5 years, that's $900 I would have given to my cable/Fios company. But since I paid $200 or $300, can't remember, for my lifetime I didn't lose money. I also got a Tivo HD and ordered the Premiere.

The thing I like best about my Tivo that the cable DVR doesn't have, is that I can transfer my recordings to my PC and make DVDs of the TV episodes. I don't have to buy my wife's Desperate Housewives season 1, 2, etc which cost a lot of money for a season. I can also put those shows on her ipod if I want to. I also use streambaby to go from the PC to the Tivo of any videos that I have stored on my computer, which is really cool. And finally, the best thing about my Tivo HD is that I can get Netflix.

So you make your own decision, and be happy about it either way.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

My TiVo Premiers with Lifetime will end up costing me around $13.89(after discounts) a month each over a 3 year period. Although the one cable card will cost me $3.99 amonth. So with cable card, each month over 3 years it's $17.88 a month. Over four years its $14.41 amonth. And over 5 years it's $12.32 a month.
I also ordered the 3 year warranty on those boxes which is included in the price.

I'm also not including what I will get from selling my old boxes. For exisiting customers it's a win-win situation.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

A Moxi DVR with a mate for upstairs viewing and guide data is 799$ with no monthly fees. Takes care of both rooms so

7.50 for upstairs cable box + 15.25 a month for cable DVR = 22.75 - 1 cable card for Moxi to view in both places 2.75 a month = 20$ a month savings

800/20 = pays for itself in 40 months while you get to enjoy its use over the clunky cable company DVR good only in one room.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Skullbussa said:


> Can someone convince me my #s are wrong or if I am missing some part of the bigger picture?


You're numbers may be correct, but you are comparing apples to oranges. The TiVo is a premium product with a premium price tag. People do not buy Series 3 or Series 4 TiVos because they are cheaper than the alternatives. They buy them because they like what the product has to offer and are willing to pay more for those features. It is obviously impossible for anyone to tell you whether or not the TiVo makes sense for you. All we can do is tell you why it makes sense for us. Ultimately, only you can decide if the benefits gained by going with a TiVo over Time Warner's equipment are worth paying extra for. You've already done the math, now you have to do some soul searching.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> A Moxi DVR with a mate for upstairs viewing and guide data is 799$ with no monthly fees. Takes care of both rooms so
> 
> 7.50 for upstairs cable box + 15.25 a month for cable DVR = 22.75 - 1 cable card for Moxi to view in both places 2.75 a month = 20$ a month savings
> 
> 800/20 = pays for itself in 40 months while you get to enjoy its use over the clunky cable company DVR good only in one room.


Actually this does NOT take care of him as the Moxi Mate does not provide any guide data, which he said he wanted for the upstairs room.

TiVo is a luxury item that you get if the cost is negligible for you. A TiVo OR a Moxi will be vastly superior to the cable company garbage boxes.

Keep in mind that you will have to have a tuning adapter for the TiVo if you are on TWC and people have had issues with them.


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## rogmatic (Sep 17, 2009)

I have a similar situation, except that I currently have TIVO HD XL and was planning to buy the Premier for my other TV. I just found out that TWC is going to switched digital cable in my area, and I am now very reluctant to fork out the money for a new TIVO when I am not sure that it will function right. As of now my plan is to see how well my HD XL works with the tuning adapter before buying the Premier.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

rogmatic said:


> As of now my plan is to see how well my HD XL works with the tuning adapter before buying the Premier ...


I think that is a very wise decision.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jmpage2 said:


> Actually this does NOT take care of him as the Moxi Mate does not provide any guide data, which he said he wanted for the upstairs room.
> 
> TiVo is a luxury item that you get if the cost is negligible for you. A TiVo OR a Moxi will be vastly superior to the cable company garbage boxes.
> 
> Keep in mind that you will have to have a tuning adapter for the TiVo if you are on TWC and people have had issues with them.


A software update will likely add guide data and scheduling recordings via the mate. The updates happen pretty frequently. Also I have not heard of similar problems with TAs on Moxi. The OP may well be the kind of person for whom a Moxi bundle is the better option


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## puckettcg (Feb 10, 2006)

I would consider capacity. Most (all?) have only about 25 hours of HD programming capacity. The olympics would have crushed me on a cable DVR because I was recording up to six hours per day while still recording the normal stuff. Most of the events were of little interest so it was nice to be able to zip through the stuff I didn't care for. 

For me, though, if it weren't for the capacity, I doubt I would have purchased TIVO just for the video download capability, streaming, and the interface. I also have two Apple TV's and use them for rentals. Plus the Apple TV handles my pictures and music library better (with no subscription). 

No one has yet come out with the single all-in-one solution in my opinion.


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## Skullbussa (Mar 19, 2010)

jmpage2 said:


> Keep in mind that you will have to have a tuning adapter for the TiVo if you are on TWC and people have had issues with them.


Oh lovely. Do these tuning adapters cost money? Are they purchased or leased?

To the others:

I am definitely willing to pay for a premium product. $300 is negligible to me. I am more concerned about putting myself into a constant technical battle with Time Warner than spending a few hundred bucks on a Premiere.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Skullbussa said:


> Oh lovely. Do these tuning adapters cost money? Are they purchased or leased?
> 
> To the others:
> 
> I am definitely willing to pay for a premium product. $300 is negligible to me. I am more concerned about putting myself into a constant technical battle with Time Warner than spending a few hundred bucks on a Premiere.





Skullbussa said:


> That said, I am having a really hard time justifying the expense of a TiVo Premiere as it seems to me the dollars just do not add up.


which is it


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

You should consider getting the two room Moxi Bundle.

http://moxi.com/us/moxi_multi_room_bundle.html


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fatlard said:


> You should consider getting the two room Moxi Bundle.
> 
> http://moxi.com/us/moxi_multi_room_bundle.html


smeek


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Skullbussa said:


> I am definitely willing to pay for a premium product. $300 is negligible to me. I am more concerned about putting myself into a constant technical battle with Time Warner than spending a few hundred bucks on a Premiere.


In light of this information, I highly recommend that you thoroughly read the Time Warner tuning adapter bug thread:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7099348#post7099348


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Some great answers, other than those posted by pod people.

BTW, I have TWC and I don't need a tuning adapter.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

Just to add to the confusion, the CCI byte will interfere with the downloading of anything other than locals to a computer. This also applies if there were a 2nd TiVo and MRV was invloved.

Which is why Moxi + TWC seems to be a popular suggestion. And who said we're not tolerant here


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Kablemodem said:


> BTW, I have TWC and I don't need a tuning adapter.


Good point. If the OP lives in a market where Time Warner isn't currently using SDV, then the tuner adapter problems are irrelevant. Of course, it's always possible that SDV could be deployed at some point in the future, so it's best to jump into the purchase with full knowledge of all potential issues.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Skullbussa said:


> Oh lovely. Do these tuning adapters cost money? Are they purchased or leased?
> 
> To the others:
> 
> I am definitely willing to pay for a premium product. $300 is negligible to me. I am more concerned about putting myself into a constant technical battle with Time Warner than spending a few hundred bucks on a Premiere.


Not sure of what kind of battles you might be facing. I have two TiVo HD boxes on Comcast (no tuning adapter) and have never had to call them about anything. We love our TiVos and although you might not think you will use the ability to transfer shows between rooms it is a great feature.

Initial cable card install is always a PITA since they don't know what they are doing, but in my experience once the TiVo is up and running it's pretty much forgotten that you are on cablecard at that point.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

rocko said:


> Just to add to the confusion, the CCI byte will interfere with the downloading of anything other than locals to a computer. This also applies if there were a 2nd TiVo and MRV was invloved.
> 
> Which is why Moxi + TWC seems to be a popular suggestion. And who said we're not tolerant here


TiVo + SlingBox offers way more options and flexibility!


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

TrueTurbo said:


> TiVo + SlingBox offers way more options and flexibility!


I have to disagree there. I have a Slingbox Pro-HD connected to my TiVo and a Sling Catcher in a workout room to receive the feed.

While I get "full access" to the Tivo this way, it's also at the expense of whoever might want to view that TiVo in the other room.

Additionally it's laggy as hell for remote commands and there are constant audio sync issues with the Sling Catcher.

The Slingbox is good for when I want to watch a show while traveling (using my laptop) but really, that's about it.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

jmpage2 said:


> I have to disagree there. I have a Slingbox Pro-HD connected to my TiVo and a Sling Catcher in a workout room to receive the feed.
> 
> While I get "full access" to the Tivo this way, it's also at the expense of whoever might want to view that TiVo in the other room.
> 
> ...


Depends on your network I suppose. I have absolutely no issues with dropouts or sync problems in my bedroom on my SlingCatcher. Yes, remote commands are laggy, but not intolerable by any means and once you are watching something, remote commands hardly matter at all.

You're right about the fact that you are watching the same output that anyone sitting in front of the TV will be watching. Not a problem if you live alone. 

The SlingPlayer software is also amazing. My home office is separate from my TV room and I love the fact that I have full access to my TiVo in my office, on my PC and laptop. As you pointed out, when you travel, you STILL have full access to your TiVo on your laptop, anywhere you have access to the internet.

For the record, the component outputs from my TiVo are connected to a SlingBox Solo. I've laid CAT 6 Ethernet under the baseboards in my apartment with 5 port NetGear Switches at each end. My SlingCatcher in my bedroom is wired to the switch.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> A Moxi DVR with a mate for upstairs viewing and guide data is 799$ with no monthly fees. Takes care of both rooms so
> 
> 7.50 for upstairs cable box + 15.25 a month for cable DVR = 22.75 - 1 cable card for Moxi to view in both places 2.75 a month = 20$ a month savings
> 
> 800/20 = pays for itself in 40 months while you get to enjoy its use over the clunky cable company DVR good only in one room.


How is the functionality of the Moxi as compared to the Tivo? I'm interested in season passes, wish list, prioritizing season passes in event of conflicts, padding, etc. How far in advance is the guide? How many cable cards does it take?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

brianric said:


> How is the functionality of the Moxi as compared to the Tivo? I'm interested in season passes, wish list, prioritizing season passes in event of conflicts, padding, etc. How far in advance is the guide? How many cable cards does it take?


With the Moxi, you get series recordings, series prioritization and 2 weeks of data.

Features of the Moxi

-3 tuners
-Live streaming to exenders
-Hulu via playon
-Online scheduliing

However, you will not get OTA and Tivo to Go


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

brianric said:


> How is the functionality of the Moxi as compared to the Tivo? I'm interested in season passes, wish list, prioritizing season passes in event of conflicts, padding, etc. How far in advance is the guide? How many cable cards does it take?


AVS HDTV DVR Feature Comparison Chart

That's about as comprehensive as it gets, I think.

We don't yet know all the features that the new TiVoHD UI will include.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> AVS HDTV DVR Feature Comparison Chart
> 
> That's about as comprehensive as it gets, I think.
> 
> We don't yet know all the features that the new TiVoHD UI will include.


One thing I don't like about the Moxi is that you need an analog tuner accessory to receive analog signals. Comcast is switching over to digital, with the exception of the limited basic channels. The three tuner Moxi is tempting, but giving up wish list and the analog problem is making me lean towards the TiVo Premiere.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Skullbussa said:


> I am left desiring the much-improved UI ... over Time Warner Cable's clunky DVR that I am currently leasing


how clunky is the dvr? the last cable co. box i used was comcast's in NJ 4 or 5 years ago and i found it awful. i could live with the crappy UI but i couldn't stand how often it froze and how bad it was at tracking program changes -- e.g. if a one-off i wanted to record changed times or disappeared (series got cancelled or episode pre-empted) it would still record whatever replaced it at that time and wouldn't even let me cancel the recording.

at this point i can't see myself buying the premiere or the parts to resuscitate my dead TiVo HD. right now i'm on rcn so i'm using their tivo offering. but i'll be moving in a few months to a building that only has twc so i'm curious to find out what i'm getting into. this is in manhattan, btw.


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## rogmatic (Sep 17, 2009)

I have TWC with a tuning box, and my Premiere works just fine with the tuning box - never had an issue. My XL works fine most of the time, but I occasionally have to unplug it and replug it to get it work. Amazingly, I have never missed a recording, it has only happened on live TV. I don't know if I am just lucky or what.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

You guys are responding to a thread where the last post is dated 03-21-20*10*.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

TWinbrook46636 said:


> You guys are responding to a thread where the last post is dated 03-21-20*10*.


acknowledged. now, any insight to my question on how clunky a twc dvr is? specifically the ones used in manhattan?


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

mlsnyc said:


> acknowledged. now, any insight to my question on how clunky a twc dvr is? specifically the ones used in manhattan?


Here are some things showing how clunky TWC Navigator is. My info is a several months old, but I doubt much has changed:

•	no 30 second skip; other trickplay functions not as responsive or as predictable as Tivo's
•	generally, much smaller cap on storage than Tivo. Cannot expand without risking having to buy their box at a punitive price. eSATA not officially supported, and flaky - it works, then with newer version of Navigator it does not, then works again in next version, then does not work again. 
•	cannot remove channels from guide/searches; not even channels you do not subscribe to, or SD versions of channels for which you have HD version. Cannot even remove On Demand stuff from showing.
•	very lame search - only by title, and only left-to-right (i.e. cannot search by the second word in the title, have to start from the beginning. Say you want to look for a football game featuring your college: you have to search for "College Football". Once you get there, there are several dozens of such entries. Each entry typically corresponds to one game, but to figure out which, you need to click on it to make it drop down; this will show usually 3 subentries, one for each channel (analog, SD digital, HD). Then select one of individual subentries to look at the description and realize it is not the one you are interested. Then scroll down to next "College Football", click to drop down that one, and so on. I'd say, you'll get to what you're looking for, on average, in less than half an hour. The only way you get to something quick is if you know the exact title and it is fairly unique.
•	no wishlists 
•	guide data from a weaker source, much less detailed and good for a week only
•	no overlap protection
•	multiple episodes of the same program are not grouped into folders; there are no folders at all
•	no manual recording
•	overall, the feel of it is way worse; things are much less logically arranged; less info per screen
•	speed generally worse than HD menus in Premiere (depending on what you are doing)
•	cannot turn off that 1/4 screen display, which leads to spoilers, especially if both tuners are recording
•	no Recently Deleted folder
•	no smart context-sensitive reuse of remote buttons, so TWC remote uses 1001 buttons - for example, it has dedicated day up/down and page up/down buttons - making remote too crowded, and, if you like tactile universal remotes, forces you to look for one with many buttons, which narrows your choices a lot.
•	no transferring shows to computer (actually, no anything related to your home network).
•	no Netflix/Amazon/Blockbuster/YouTube/Pandora, etc.

In all fairness, there are a few things that TWC Navigator does better than Tivo:

•	it can do cable company VOD, which is sometimes handy
•	built-in SDV, no need for tuning adapter
•	it can restrict a series to a specific time slot (for example, record NFL Live on ESPNHD only at 4 p.m.)
•	there are indicators in the guide when something is scheduled to record
•	there is a Conflicts tab, much handier than looking through "Recording History" and trying to figure out which ones might be conflicts
•	there is a "Recently Viewed" tab, handy when you interrupt watching something to watch something else, and want to go back to it
•	there is a one-button-click Closed Captioning toggle (through a workaround)
•	there is a clock/channel display on the box
•	quarter screen display is actually quarter-screen, not tiny like Tivo.
•	menus are a lot easier to read, especially compared to extra info on SD screens in Tivo (like episode number, etc.). Although, you may say that the reason the fonts are so big and easy to read is that there is so little info on screen

•	(this is a fairly new development, so I don't know how well it works): if you buy the premium "Whole House DVR" you can stream from the DVR to other boxes around the house; typically, they like you to rent two DVRs plus several extra receiver-only boxes (probably there is a limit, I don't know how much), presumably each one talking to all other ones. That's much better than Tivo way, especially since TWC marks everything other than broadcast channels with do-not-copy CCI bit, so you cannot transfer them from one Tivo to another, or to a computer. Also, these DVRs have more storage than regular ones from TWC: 500GB, vs. 320GB or 160GB for regular ones.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

PedjaR said:


> Here are some things showing how clunky TWC Navigator is. My info is a several months old, but I doubt much has changed:
> ...


Thanks! This is a good write-up and exactly what I was looking for.


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