# Did we say late 2010? We meant early 2011.



## Archipelagos (Mar 26, 2010)

We've been promising this for five years, but we're really serious this time!

Article on Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/25/tivo-banking-on-the-software-business-delays-directv-hd-unit-to/


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

Right.... FIOS it is now....

Contract is up on October 1, 2010 and I am out of here...

Andy


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I think the five years is just a slight exaggeration. Five years ago is when the HR10 was introduced.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

> Miller called software the company's "core competence," said it was "in our blood" and "the thing we do well," and even added that "the software is what we're all about."


If that's what they think... They aren't being very good at the "core competence" by how fast the HD UI is being fixed.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

stevel said:


> I think the five years is just a slight exaggeration. Five years ago is when the HR10 was introduced.


thought the release date was March 2004, so 6 years


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

I think Stevel's point was that the OP exaggerated heavily on his "five years" comment. It's been more like two years since DirecTV and Tivo announced they were coming out with a new HD-DVR together.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=404052


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Since it's basically the Tivo software that can get the HD channels I have no idea why it would take more than a couple of months.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Cudahy said:


> Since it's basically the Tivo software that can get the HD channels I have no idea why it would take more than a couple of months.


I don't know either, but Comcast and Cox tivos still are in beta....


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Deleted


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

stevel said:


> I think the five years is just a slight exaggeration. Five years ago is when the HR10 was introduced.


It's just flat untrue. TiVo said all along that they couldn't do anything for DirecTV without an agreement from DirecTV. When they renewed their support contract in 2006 they made it clear that was just for support of the existing boxes. Until the agreement for the new box in September 2008, there was basically no hope of a new DirecTV TiVo.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

netringer said:


> If that's what they think... They aren't being very good at the "core competence" by how fast the HD UI is being fixed.


That was a typo. They meant "core incompetence."


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## bobatkins (Aug 27, 2010)

Too bad DirectTV just didn't get the message. Having been a loyal customer since 1996 and a TiVo subscriber since 2001 they have lost a high value subscriber to their ignorance and the arrogance of Rupert Murdoch - the idiot owner that didn't respect the Intellectual Property of TiVo and insisted on cramming his DVRs down our throats.

Unfortunately Rupert succeeded in harvesting way too much money from me while I patiently waited the last 2 years for a TiVo HD solution for DirecTV. I have auditioned the latest DirecTV DVR and while it certainly has improved from the earlier stone age versions both in terms of performance and user interface - their latest DVR (released in July 2010) just pales in comparison to a TiVo Premier.

It is quite clear to me that a TiVo HD for DirecTV is never going to come and if it does it will likely be a severely limited unit - with little or no access to online content. The press announcement about a TiVO HD for DirecTV coming soon over the last couple of years are nothing more than vaporware - trying to retain customers like myself who they know will leave if a TiVo HD solution isn't coming.

Well Rupert - for once I get to tell a near monopoly, greedy money grubbing SOB like yourself to choke on it! Until you own and control the rest of the world - I still get to vote with my feet and my dollars.

I am now the very happy owner of a TiVo Premier connected to Verizon FiOS TV service. I am more than impressed with the far greater selection of HD channels available on FiOS TV than DirecTV and the fabulous integration of both broadcast and online content that it is unlikely DirecTV will ever be able to offer.

So, see ya - I canceled my DirectTV service on 9/30/10 and it is highly unlikely you will ever see me as a customer again. I know that I only represent a tiny fraction of revenue to your company however, you can also rest assured that I will be telling my friends and acquaintances how to enjoy a superb TiVo HD experience on FiOS or other cable services as well.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

bobatkins said:


> [...]e I patiently waited the last 2 years for a TiVo HD solution for DirecTV [...] Well Rupert - for once I get to tell a near monopoly, greedy money grubbing SOB like yourself to choke on it! Until you own and control the rest of the world - I still get to vote with my feet and my dollars. [...]


Rupert Murdoch/News Corp. hasn't owned, controlled or had any interest in DirecTV for over 2 1/2 years.


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## Chester_Lampwick (Jul 19, 2004)

Whine all you want. On this side of the border we can't get cablecards or DirecTV. No TiVo in HD for me


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## ClubrhythmEnt (Apr 2, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Rupert Murdoch/News Corp. hasn't owned, controlled or had any interest in DirecTV for over 2 1/2 years.


That's true, of course, but it is also true that under Mr. Murdoch's influence there was a noticeable shift in DirecTV culture, especially problematic for those of us who deal with them on a commercial basis. This shift resulted in a severing of the Tivo/DirecTV partnership (at which time all DirecTivo development stopped). The full implementation of the leasing model came about during this time and, by the way, if you do the math the consumer ends up on the losing end of that as well.

2 1/2 years later the management changes (both literal and figurative) are still apparent to me (and others) who long for the good ole days. Oh well...


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

nrc said:


> It's just flat untrue. TiVo said all along that they couldn't do anything for DirecTV without an agreement from DirecTV. When they renewed their support contract in 2006 they made it clear that was just for support of the existing boxes. Until the agreement for the new box in September 2008, there was basically no hope of a new DirecTV TiVo.


Ok fine. That still an insane amount of time to build a box. It's now two years running (according to your dates).


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

seattlewendell said:


> Ok fine. That still an insane amount of time to build a box. It's now two years running (according to your dates).


Yes it is a long time. A TiVo executive was quoted as saying that much of that delay was due to trying to develop for a moving target of a platform from DirecTV. Their platform feature set seems to be stabilizing now, and the TiVo DVR is rumored to be in beta test.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I got a call from a friend a few weeks ago who was offered the chance to beta test the new box. Unfortunately, he no longer has D*, so he had to refuse, but I can confirm that it is being beta tested.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Anyone here know how long the HR10-250 beta* tested?  

*pre-production beta.


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## mikenva (May 22, 2008)

I want to post an update link from DirecTv but I only have 3 posts so this is 4...


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## mikenva (May 22, 2008)

I want to post an update link from DirecTv but I only have 4 posts so this is 5...


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## mikenva (May 22, 2008)

Update from Directv Site on HD Tivo release in Early 2011... http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

I am stuck with them I am a huge NFL fan and need the package.. this sucks


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

mikenva said:


> Update from Directv Site on HD Tivo release in Early 2011... http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77
> 
> I am stuck with them I am a huge NFL fan and need the package.. this sucks


We have been looking at early 2011 for a long time now.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I dumped DirecTV four years ago because of the TiVo crap. I initially got DirecTV nine years ago because of HD and in the process found TiVo. Of course I got the HD TiVo when it was released in 2004. But when I found out that they would not be supporting TiVo and there would be no TiVo replacement that handle MPEG4 HD I had to leave. I was paying DirecTV $120 every month just for TV.
I would ahve never even considered leaving if they had not dropped support back then for the TiVo. But now that I've been with FiOS for over three years, I could not see going back to DirecTV. They lost a good customer with that crap they pulled years ago.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> I dumped DirecTV four years ago because of the TiVo crap. I initially got DirecTV nine years ago because of HD and in the process found TiVo. Of course I got the HD TiVo when it was released in 2004. But when I found out that they would not be supporting TiVo and there would be no TiVo replacement that handle MPEG4 HD I had to leave. I was paying DirecTV $120 every month just for TV.
> I would ahve never even considered leaving if they had not dropped support back then for the TiVo. But now that I've been with FiOS for over three years, I could not see going back to DirecTV. They lost a good customer with that crap they pulled years ago.


:up:


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

Well, the FIOS guy just left. I now have a Tivo Premiere and FIOS TV. Will be calling DirecTV in about an hour to cancel my service.

Cable card installation was a snap.

I waited till Q4 2010 patiently. When they didn't deliver, I had to give up. You had the best DVR UI DirecTV, and the best customer service. Then you left Tivo behind. And, sadly, you left me behind too.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I dumped DirecTV four years ago because of the TiVo crap. I initially got DirecTV nine years ago because of HD and in the process found TiVo. Of course I got the HD TiVo when it was released in 2004. But when I found out that they would not be supporting TiVo and there would be no TiVo replacement that handle MPEG4 HD I had to leave. I was paying DirecTV $120 every month just for TV.
> I would ahve never even considered leaving if they had not dropped support back then for the TiVo. But now that I've been with FiOS for over three years, I could not see going back to DirecTV. They lost a good customer with that crap they pulled years ago.


Pretty much same here. I was paying Directv $150 a month and after the digital transition I couldn't handle the centercut SD programming. I was ready to upgrade to HD as a result and Directv didn't have a TiVo option. Then I stumbled across a bunch of the TiVo HDs Sears had on clearance. I switched to FiOS TV about a week later.

One huge perk on top of this was I was able to rip out all the crappy Directv cable runs and between my friend and the FiOS installer I now have nice clean installs. I still need to rip the dish off the roof.

The DirecTiVo at this point would have to be my dream TiVo for me to consider Directv again.


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## Gasturbine (May 9, 2008)

Im finished. This is the biggest heap of crap ever. Im dumping DirecTV when I get home, and moving to The Dish Network, and am turning my back on Tivo as well.

If we want to send a message, the ONLY way they will listen, is if we do it with our wallets.

I urge everybody else to follow suite.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> I think the same parent company owns both Direct TV and Dish Network.


????


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

shwru980r said:


> I think the same parent company owns both Direct TV and Dish Network.


You are gravely mistaken.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> I think the same parent company owns both Direct TV and Dish Network.


That's not true.


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## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

So, I just got off the phone with DirecTV who assured me that they have the new TiVo HD receiver. They said that they aren't advertizing it yet because they don't want to get blasted with calls.
They told me it is the DH24. Are they smoking crack?


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Someone is.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

What is the DH24?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Combat Medic said:


> So, I just got off the phone with DirecTV who assured me that they have the new TiVo HD receiver. They said that they aren't advertizing it yet because they don't want to get blasted with calls.
> They told me it is the DH24. Are they smoking crack?


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say YES.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Combat Medic said:


> So, I just got off the phone with DirecTV who assured me that they have the new TiVo HD receiver. They said that they aren't advertizing it yet because they don't want to get blasted with calls.
> They told me it is the DH24. Are they smoking crack?


I think the H24 is their latest DVR not the TiVo.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

innocentfreak said:


> I think the H24 is their latest DVR not the TiVo.


HR24 is the latest DVR, H24 is just a reciever but it can be used to stream from HD DVR.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Considering how unenthusiastic DirecTV has been during quarterly conference call when addressing the still in the works DircTiVo, and the fact the ONLY reason DirecTV is even coming out with the box is per contract with TiVo that prevents TiVo from suing DirecTV for patent infringement in exchange for the new DirecTiVo, I really wonder how buggy this new box will be. According to DirecTV CEO White, their isn't much the new DirecTiVo will do that the DirecTV DVR's don't or won't do. He tried very hard to downplay any advantage to the TiVo product and was, not surprisingly, trying to build up his own product during the quarterly some months ago.

DirecTV has been and is taking TiVo for a very long ride and every delay certainly has the smell of DirecTV's intention and purpose given DirecTV's attitude during public quarterlies and the contract preventing TiVo from suing DirecTV for patent infringement. DirecTV has all the cards right now, and as long as DirecTV says "on the way; it's coming; we promise" TiVo is highly unlikely to sue for breach of contract because TiVo desperately needs the revenue from DirecTV subs. In other words, I predict DirecTV is announce another delay, but make it clear it is almost finished. Yeah, right.


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## MacQ2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Series3Sub, I just listened to the Tivo quarterly earnings call and they barely mentioned DirecTV at all. The previous quarterly calls they always mentioned the new HD box and gave some timeline. This call - nothing. No analyst even asked questions about it either. Very odd in its absence.

I know DirecTV is saying early 2011 on their website. But, given that Tivo seems more interested in all its other efforts (watch for Virgin/Tivo product very soon - really) I am not optimistic about their DirecTV box.

If it does come out I don't think it will be buggy though. Tivo is doing the software so I'm pretty sure it will be far cleaner than the D* units.

One other point that may push DirecTV to be more cooperative is Tivo's continued success against Dish in the patent case. This has dragged on far too long but Tivo has won every step. They should (finally) prevail fairly soon (< 1 year?) and once they do all other box makers will have to take note. There will likely be some serious, serious monetary compensation coming to Tivo.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

It is definitely NOT a DH24.

Under UL's website for certifications, you will see.


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## patnmike427 (Sep 9, 2002)

My $.02 worth...

I, too, am soon joining the ranks of disgruntled and dissatisfied D*TV subscribers who have reached the limits of their patience with D* in every aspect of their service. When I switched from Crapcast cable in 2005, not only was the programming package much better than cable, I was able to retain my beloved Tivo. Alas, regardless of who's to blame personally (Murdoch? Who cares!), D* in their infinite wisdom decided to sever ties with Tivo, thorough p*ssing off thousands of loyalists, and then really frosting us by effectively turning our 10-250s into nothing more than doorstops. (And, before anyone jumps on me, YES, I do "get" MPEG-2 vs. MPEG-4...but really, guys: All this money, and you simply can't just launch another bird?)

Further adding insult to injury, D* supplies us with the abomination known as the HR20-21-22. And, despite chronic complaints from long-time subscribers, D*'s refusal to actually LISTEN to their customers displays an arrogance unmatched by many...well, maybe the cable TV companies! Y'all here I'm certain have experienced D*'s fiascos known as "software updates"...you know, frequent lockups, RBRs, the infamous "zero-length" recordings mess...and the latest batch of junk they pushed to my HR21 (Ox40e) thrashed its hard drive so badly for several days, it finally cooked itself and died WITHOUT WARNING.

What happened when I called in to get this POS replaced? Of course, I can't request or get their latest HR2x incarnation (HR24), so a five-year, loyal Premier package subscriber with 3 outlets (2 HD) gets a refurbed box. Gee, thanks guys...good to know that a new subscriber (read "sucker") with a heavily-discounted lowest-end HD package gets the brand-new HR24, and I get table scraps. Better yet, not only do I have to pay $19.95 for S&H on this used box-they send it Fedex Ground Home Delivery-which, based on the warehouse location and mine, even at FULL "retail" rates costs only $5.08...nevermind that their discounted rate is likely half of this...but wait-there's more: With the holiday (Thanksgiving) I lose a day in transit...AND, I come to find out that this division of Fedex does not work/deliver on Sundays and Mondays...so I'll be getting my replacement box EIGHT days after it died.

For those who might say that "sh*t happens, drives die", you're right...but, my 10-250 is still chugging along without a single failure...and my two old Series 2 Tivos, who I gave to friends? Hmm...almost TEN years after purchase, they both still work flawlessly.

Well, after having had my fill of "customer service by-the-training-book" from D*, I got in touch with Verizon, as I have had FiOS Internet and home phone for just about 2 years now. Adding Extreme HD, AND boosting Internet from 20/5 to 25/25, I will save $77.85 per month, GUARANTEED, for the next two years...which will easily pay for the two Tivo Premiere units I bought last week. So, not only do I get back my Tivo, I no longer have to tolerate rain fade, or stupid customer service drones...that's not to say that they're rude, or helpful-their hands are tied by the numbnuts above them.

So, it's adios D*, hello FiOS, and welcome back, Tivo! I really missed ya...and since your "pals" at D* keep lying to us about D*Tivo, part 2, I can't wait any longer. December 6th is not coming fast enough!


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

codespy said:


> It is definitely NOT a DH24.
> 
> Under UL's website for certifications, you will see.


THR22-100


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

CuriousMark said:


> THR22-100


Which of course leads us to believe it will be based off the slower HR22 rather than the HR24.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Which of course leads us to believe it will be based off the slower HR22 rather than the HR24.


that's hard to believe.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> that's hard to believe.


Why? With the old UI there isn't as much need for a newer faster processer. It allows them to potentially build a cheaper box also since the chips should be less than the newer components of the HR24.

It should still be faster than the H10-250. It probably won't be as fast as the Premiere running the old UI but it should be fast enough. Also we have no idea what features DirecTV will even allow TiVo to use this go around so the extra power may not even be needed.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> that's hard to believe.


TiVo has experience with the chip sets in the HR21 through 23, but not the chip set in the HR24 which is quite different.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> TiVo has experience with the chip sets in the HR21 through 23, but not the chip set in the HR24 which is quite different.


For over a year they said they were waiting on new hardware from Directv for the port. Now they have supposedly decided to use old hardware instead? It's suppose to be a premium offering, how is the HR21-Tivo going to be worth paying extra for?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> It's suppose to be a premium offering, how is the HR21-Tivo going to be worth paying extra for?


That is the big question and why most don't think it will be. DirecTV will most likely require that TiVo remove any desirable features and cripple the few it has since many of these compete with DirecTV's own offerings which they charge monthly fees for.


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## Raketemensch (Jun 1, 2010)

I was a D* subscriber for years, extremely happy with my series 1 DirecTivo. 

We eventually dropped *all* television for about 7 years, until we had kids and having some programming around for them became essential to our sanity.

So, having those good memories, I signed up, and couldn't be any less happy. As a new subscriber I ended up with an HR21 (this was about 6 months ago), which is completely crippled compared to what I'd expected. The UI is horrific, it's so slow to respond that I end up swearing at it regularly. After suggesting 3 or 4 less-conspicuous locations with perfect views for the satellite, the installers completely ignored me and picked THE most obvious location possible for the Dish, hooked up one of the two receivers, and left.

But what pisses me off most is that in this modern age of TV everywhere, D* only allows you to watch content on a Windows computer. Want to use a media center? Sorry. Want to use a Mac? Sorry. Want to use any of your mobile devices? You're SOL. 

Dish Network announced an iPhone/iPad app today, with which you can watch anything your DVR can pull in. What's D* got? Squat. With my S1 Tivo I was watching content wherever I wanted to on my network, using DirecTV, and that was EIGHT YEARS AGO. The world moved on, and D* stepped back into the past.

I only mention this in the Tivo thread because I've got $20 that says that all of Tivo's handy networking stuff will be crippled in D*'s Tivo, assuming it ever even sees the light of day. The main reason I'm hoping and praying for this thing to be released is so I can actually watch my shows over the network. If D* removes this functionality, I'm done. They can eat my subscription, chase me with lawyers, whatever, but I refuse to continue to pretend that what they're delivering is worth the money they're asking for it.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

plazman30 said:


> Right.... FIOS it is now....
> 
> Contract is up on October 1, 2010 and I am out of here...
> 
> Andy


Not really understanding your post but if you are saying you will be switching to FiOS your gonna want a TiVo. FiOS DVR's *SUCK*!


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## ClubrhythmEnt (Apr 2, 2003)

Everytime I see these "what happened to DirecTV and their excellent customer service?" posts I yell back at the computer "Rupert Murdoch happened!! That's what." Good people left and bad people joined the organization. In charge until just last year was DirecTV CEO Chase Carey who is now the #2 guy at News Corp.! Murdoch ruined the culture at DTV and the evidence of that, sadly, is all around us.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

ClubrhythmEnt said:


> Everytime I see these "what happened to DirecTV and their excellent customer service?" posts I yell back at the computer "Rupert Murdoch happened!! That's what." Good people left and bad people joined the organization. In charge until just last year was DirecTV CEO Chase Carey who is now the #2 guy at News Corp.! Murdoch ruined the culture at DTV and the evidence of that, sadly, is all around us.


+1


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## patnmike427 (Sep 9, 2002)

Raketemensch said:


> I was a D* subscriber for years, extremely happy with my series 1 DirecTivo.


Yup, me too...both the R10 (std. def) and the HR10-250 (HD) were great units...until Murdoch & Co. got really arrogant and thought that they could build better DVRs in-house; and what happened?



Raketemensch said:


> As a new subscriber I ended up with an HR21 (this was about 6 months ago), which is completely crippled compared to what I'd expected. The UI is horrific, it's so slow to respond that I end up swearing at it regularly.


Crippled? Check! Horrific UI? Check! Slow? Triple-check! What I really, REALLY want to know from DTV is this: This forum, and the other very well-known satellite TV forum, are chock-full of posts regarding the abysmal performance of the HR20/21 series; Hell, even DTV's own tech forums are clogged with similar posts! And, every time, what's the #1 answer from their tech geniuses? Reboot / reset / unplug...yeah right-NONE of these suggestions solves the performance issue. Compounding this ignorance are the frequent (seemingly monthly) software "updates" that DTV pushes to their boxes; none of which have helped improve speed...and in far too many cases, have created bigger problems.



Raketemensch said:


> After suggesting 3 or 4 less-conspicuous locations with perfect views for the satellite, the installers completely ignored me and picked THE most obvious location possible for the Dish, hooked up one of the two receivers, and left.


This is what happens when you sub-contract a huge chunk of the dirty work: A complete lack of accountability. If your installer was a genuine, W-2 receiving payroll employee of DTV, they might actually be concerned that a customer complaint would result in a meeting with their boss or termination. Further, judging by some of the subs I've encountered, it sure seems like DTV is willing to farm out installs to anyone with a truck, ladder, and tools; do they bother interviewing these folks? Some of 'em I wouldn't trust out of my eyesight for a second!



Raketemensch said:


> Dish Network announced an iPhone/iPad app today, with which you can watch anything your DVR can pull in. What's D* got? Squat. With my S1 Tivo I was watching content wherever I wanted to on my network, using DirecTV, and that was EIGHT YEARS AGO. The world moved on, and D* stepped back into the past.


DTV's attitude seems to be "You will take what we give you-and you WILL be happy with that."



Raketemensch said:


> I only mention this in the Tivo thread because I've got $20 that says that all of Tivo's handy networking stuff will be crippled in D*'s Tivo, assuming it ever even sees the light of day. _The main reason I'm hoping and praying for this thing to be released is so I can actually watch my shows over the network._


You can hope and pray all you want, but let me say this: NEVER--GONNA--HAPPEN. For 2+ years, we've been holding out hope that the MPEG-4 2nd Gen DirecTivo was "just around the corner", and we're no closer today than we were 24 months ago. DTV seems to be content to toy with us and string us along-all the while collecting our monthly fees for service. Until more customers bail AND it starts to hurt their bottom line, they have no motivation to get this done.

What's really laughable is that in a similar time frame, Microsoft-arguably a rather unresponsive corporation-heard the outrage over Vista's plodding, and completely revamped its code; and with Windows 7, released a product that performs as good-if not better-than XP! Further, their software has to work with several different processors and literally billions of combinations of hardware and software...they managed to get it done-why can't DTV?



Raketemensch said:


> If D* removes this functionality, I'm done. They can eat my subscription, chase me with lawyers, whatever, but I refuse to continue to pretend that w_*hat they're delivering is worth the money they're asking for it.*_


I am fortunate to have FiOS in my neighborhood since early 2009...switched from DSL to FiOS Internet, and couldn't be happier. With their current deal, I will get FiOS TV with the EXACT same channels as my DTV Premier pkg. for roughly $30/month, and SAVE close to $90/month over DTV...so even though I'm purchasing two Tivo Premieres, they will pay for themselves in one year.



ClubrhythmEnt said:


> Everytime I see these "what happened to DirecTV and their excellent customer service?" posts I yell back at the computer "Rupert Murdoch happened!! That's what." Good people left and bad people joined the organization. In charge until just last year was DirecTV CEO Chase Carey who is now the #2 guy at News Corp.! Murdoch ruined the culture at DTV and the evidence of that, sadly, is all around us.


Spot-on comment! Sure, the customer service drones will toss you a $10/month for 6/12 months' credit-but, guess what? I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE $10-I JUST WANT A REASONABLY FUNCTIONAL AND FAST DVR...ONE THAT I DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT A GRAY SCREEN FOR SIX SECONDS DURING A SIMPLE CHANNEL CHANGE!!!


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

patnmike427 said:


> DTV seems to be content to toy with us and string us along-all the while collecting our monthly fees for service. Until more customers bail AND it starts to hurt their bottom line, they have no motivation to get this done.


It's Tivo you're waiting on, not Directv. Me thinks you are throwing stones in the wrong direction.

As far as customers bailing, Directv annouced today they expect to sign up over 200k net new subscribers this coming quarter.


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## patnmike427 (Sep 9, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> It's Tivo you're waiting on, not Directv. Me thinks you are throwing stones in the wrong direction.


Public statements aside, and not being someone "on the inside", ponder this: Did you ever consider that maybe-as others have suggested-that DirecTV wants basically the "guts" of the Tivo interface ONLY, and not the complete package? In that scenario, Tivo's reputation would certainly suffer; far more than the problems with the Premiere release.

Again, since we do not have such insider information, both of us are only speculating.



HiDefGator said:


> As far as customers bailing, Directv annouced today they _*expect*_ to sign up over 200k net new subscribers *this coming quarter*.


(my highlights)

Well, I can announce that I "expect" to win the Powerball lottery tomorrow night; but that doesn't mean I'm gonna! And, such statement is precisely why these proclamations made by publicly-held stock corporations have that SEC-mandated disclaimer printed underneath...you know, the infamous "forward-looking statements" clause? Further, a "net" increase means nothing; after all, without the actual facts behind it, it says little. Who's to say that DTV lost 500,000 long-time subs, but signed up 700,000 folks fed up with lousy cable service or Dish Network? What I really want to see is their "churn" data, and the reasons people are coming and going.

Believe me, I have been for the most part happy with the actual service DTV provided; however, flawed hardware/software and declining customer service are making them no better than the cable companies they're competing against. I want to get insulted, or treated like a number? I can get that very easily from Comcast...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> It's Tivo you're waiting on, not Directv. Me thinks you are throwing stones in the wrong direction.
> 
> As far as customers bailing, Directv annouced today they expect to sign up over 200k net new subscribers this coming quarter.


Unless you have been in on the meetings or have inside information, I don't think you can place blame with anyone with any certainty.

We don't know who picked the hardware.

We don't know what features they have been required to implement and what features they have been required to remove.

We don't know what features and products TiVo has known about that DirecTV has or is rolling out that TiVo may be trying to incorporate or required to incorporate. Look at Nomad coming out soon. Is this something TiVo will be required to use while not being allowed to use MRV and TiVoToGo? Will the TiVo be required to stream MRV between TiVo and the DirecTV DVRs?

All of this coupled with an old interface that TiVo abandoned due to how difficult it was to implement changes.

While you might be able to place blame on TiVo with regards to the interface, I think they already regret some of their choices since it stopped them from adding things like FSI which customers wanted.

If TiVo had been able to convert its Premiere to DirecTV compatible, I think we would have seen it already. If this was simply making a HD version of the series 2, I think we would have seen it by now.

Now I could be completely wrong and TiVo has just found it more rewarding both financially and otherwise to focus on other projects like RCN, Suddenlink, overseas companies, etc.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

innocentfreak said:


> We don't know who picked the hardware.


Actually, we do. The heavily redacted agreement included in TiVo's SEC filings made it clear that DirecTV would select the hardware platform.

I wouldn't guess at this point where the hold-up is on the DirecTV box, but it's clear that TiVo can produce results much more quickly than two years and counting under the right circumstances.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I must have missed that. Good to know. Thanks.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

patnmike427 said:


> Did you ever consider that maybe-as others have suggested-that DirecTV wants basically the "guts" of the Tivo interface ONLY, and not the complete package?


I don't believe Directv wants any part of it. They agreed to LET Tivo write all their own software for a Directv compatible box. Directv is doing none of the work. So any delay in getting the port done and tested is on Tivo's shoulder's as far as I'm concerned.

A far more believable scenario is that Tivo decided to allocate limited resources to this port in favor of Virgin, RCN, and Premiere work instead. Which probably isn't the wrong decision for them to make at this time.

Someone recently said that Tivo had almost 100 job listing posted. Most for engineering positions. They are severely understaffed today.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Now I could be completely wrong and TiVo has just found it more rewarding both financially and otherwise to focus on other projects like RCN, Suddenlink, overseas companies, etc.


Bingo!


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> Since it's basically the Tivo software that can get the HD channels I have no idea why it would take more than a couple of months.


Possibly a bit more than simply adding other channels; they would have to talk to a different decoder chip (although possibly not much different than what the Tivo Premiere uses), they would have to talk to tuner modules that are different and can span the new frequencies of L-band/SWM that the HD DVR+ now uses, they would have to do all of the stuff that the HD DVR+ does to minimize MPEG4 channel acquisition times which is not trivial, they would have to make the entire platform faster (implying the need to run on a different CPU) and most of all (and the hardest task of all) they would have to give it features in line with this being a "premium" platform.

Since the cutting edge of DVRs is already the HD DVR+ and the frontier for features and possible new ideas has mostly been already settled and civilized, that may never come to pass.

Tivo is an aging platform. In computer years, its about 125. The IBM Selectric was a brilliant idea in 1972, but the only one using one anymore is "Fauxlivia" in _Fringe_ (and she just got busted). Tivo is becoming the Selectric of DVRs.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

patnmike427 said:


> ...
> 
> What's really laughable is that in a similar time frame, Microsoft-arguably a rather unresponsive corporation-heard the outrage over Vista's plodding, and completely revamped its code; and with Windows 7, released a product that performs as good-if not better-than XP!...


"Completely revamped the code" could not be a more off-target observation, or wild-ass guess. If you take any two versions of the Windows platform and compare the code, the two that stand out as being mostly the same as each other are Vista and Windows 7. Vista is the "beta" version of Windows 7, and Vista owners were the beta testers. Windows 7 is essentially Vista code with most of the "shipped too early" bugs worked out.

Everyone has "shipped too early" issues, except Tivo, and that is not because Tivo is so wonderful, but that they had the unique luxury of their product not selling, which gave them 4 or 5 years to (hemorrhage money and) work the bugs out before there was ever any real demand for their product to ship. No one was interested in a DVR in 1999, just like no one was interested in an iPhone with a touch screen and apps in 2005. Neither was on the public's radar.



patnmike427 said:


> ...I JUST WANT A REASONABLY FUNCTIONAL AND FAST DVR...ONE THAT I DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT A GRAY SCREEN FOR SIX SECONDS DURING A SIMPLE CHANNEL CHANGE!!!


_Lame argument alert! _This has nothing to do with the platform design and everything to do with the nature of MPEG4, meaning a new MPEG4 Tivo will face the very same issues. Channel acquisition depends upon the next I frame to come along in sequence. MPEG2 has I frames every 14 frames (about a half second) while MPEG4 has I frames as far as 200 frames apart. DTV shortens the channel acquisition time by inserting I frames every 2 seconds (more often would scuttle the efficiency gain of MPEG-4) making the average acquisition time about half that plus the decode time, and even takes the HDD w/r out of the equation (a clever idea Tivo never dreamed of). This makes the acq time about 2 seconds. Not _ever_ 6 seconds, and a maximum of about 3 seconds a rare fraction of the time, sometimes even less than 1 second. The only way it could ever even begin to approach 6 seconds is when changing from one resolution to another (720 to 1080, for instance) with native rez turned on and a poor HDMI handshake from your TV.

IOW, the reasons for long acq time are not in any way due to any deficiency of DTV. Quite the opposite, actually, and there are means to make it shorter just for you that you can do yourself, if you want to, because you just find that so intolerable (turn native off, use component, or use a TV/AVR with better HDMI implementation).

A great deal of the research was in what acq time will customers tolerate, based against how much efficiency do we lose by adding more I frames. If they hadn't done that research you might have seen the transition away from your precious DTivos happen many months sooner than it did.

Hyperbolic false arguments have no credibility. Their only value is in validating lame reasons against the gnawing internal fears of making the wrong decisions by someone who wants to bail, or already has bailed. Divorce lawyers see and understand this daily, if not hourly. But that is a personal mental health issue. No one else cares about how folks falsely validate their dumb choices. But ironically, the forums are still chock-full of them.


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## patnmike427 (Sep 9, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> "Completely revamped the code" could not be a more off-target observation, or wild-ass guess.


OK...



TyroneShoes said:


> If you take any two versions of the Windows platform and compare the code, the two that stand out as being mostly the same as each other are Vista and Windows 7.


BZZZT! Wrong guess-Vista and Server 2008 are identical base code, with each lacking the other's market-specific modules (e.g. AD, Media Center, DNS/DHCP/etc. servers).



TyroneShoes said:


> Vista is the "beta" version of Windows 7, and Vista owners were the beta testers. Windows 7 is essentially Vista code with most of the "shipped too early" bugs worked out.


Just 'cause they look the same doesn't mean they are. You want to consider Vista a "beta" of Win7, be my guest...but some of us who work with the nitty-gritty kernel know better.



TyroneShoes said:


> Everyone has "shipped too early" issues, except Tivo, and that is not because Tivo is so wonderful, but that they had the unique luxury of their product not selling, which gave them 4 or 5 years to (hemorrhage money and) _*work the bugs out *_before there was ever any real demand for their product to ship.


 Say WHAT??? What planet have you been living on? The Series 1/2/3 had no "bugs" to work out; again, if want to consider adding features between "Series" bugs, have at it...but I, and I think many others, beg to differ.



TyroneShoes said:


> No one was interested in a DVR in 1999, just like no one was interested in an iPhone with a touch screen and apps in 2005. Neither was on the public's radar.


Riiiiight...yeah, thousands of people wanted to continue to play the VHS "tape swapping game" every day...



TyroneShoes said:


> _Lame argument alert! _This has nothing to do with the platform design and everything to do with the nature of MPEG4, meaning a new MPEG4 Tivo will face the very same issues.


We'll see...IF-and WHEN-a new DirecTivo finally arrives.



TyroneShoes said:


> Channel acquisition depends upon the next I frame to come along in sequence. MPEG2 has I frames every 14 frames (about a half second) while MPEG4 has I frames as far as 200 frames apart. DTV shortens the channel acquisition time by inserting I frames every 2 seconds (more often would scuttle the efficiency gain of MPEG-4) making the average acquisition time about half that plus the decode time, and even takes the HDD w/r out of the equation (a clever idea Tivo never dreamed of). This makes the acq time about 2 seconds. Not _ever_ 6 seconds, and a maximum of about 3 seconds a rare fraction of the time, sometimes even less than 1 second.


Ya know, before I bail on DTV for good, I think I'll grab my camcorder and upload to YouTube a video of the channel change nightmare...and, copy/pasting Iframe info from other Wikipedia is meaningless...and the HARDWARE platform has everything to do with response-after all, Word 2007 loads pretty fast on an i7-950 with 4GB of RAM, but let's see the load time on a single-core P4 1.6Ghz with 512MB.



TyroneShoes said:


> The only way it could ever even begin to approach 6 seconds is when changing from one resolution to another (720 to 1080, for instance) with native rez turned on and a poor HDMI handshake from your TV.


Try again...reaching for straws?



TyroneShoes said:


> IOW, the reasons for long acq time are not in any way due to any deficiency of DTV. Quite the opposite, actually, and there are means to make it shorter just for you that you can do yourself, if you want to, because you just find that so intolerable (turn native off, *use component*, or use a TV/AVR with better HDMI implementation).


Yeah, just what I want: 480p on a 1080p HDTV. Did you actually READ what you wrote before posting this? Yeah, let me see you hook up your Blu-ray to your high-end TV via comp cabling...



TyroneShoes said:


> A great deal of the research was in what acq time will customers tolerate, based against how much efficiency do we lose by adding more I frames. If they hadn't done that research you might have seen the transition away from your precious DTivos happen many months sooner than it did.
> 
> Hyperbolic false arguments have no credibility. Their only value is in validating lame reasons against the gnawing internal fears of making the wrong decisions by someone who wants to bail, or already has bailed. Divorce lawyers see and understand this daily, if not hourly. But that is a personal mental health issue. No one else cares about how folks falsely validate their dumb choices. But ironically, the forums are still chock-full of them.


Wow-we go from discussion of DVR performance to scolding and insinuations of psychiatric deficiences; that's a stretch, don't you think? You talk as though you were the progeny of William F. Buckley (a man who I admire); but, in the end, come across as nothing more than a Tivo-hating, DirecTV mole on said forums.

Have a nice day!


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

They've worked on this this for 2 / 5 / 6 years, and THAT is the ugly POS they came up with? How about they take another six months, and put some lipstick on that pig.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Either someone has a short memory, and was not around when all the bugs popped up with the HR10-250, I do recall lots of them in the beginning and with each new software release. Irritating at the time all but forgotten now...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Okeemike said:


> They've worked on this this for 2 / 5 / 6 years, and THAT is the ugly POS they came up with? How about they take another six months, and put some lipstick on that pig.


Did I miss something?


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Did I miss something?


No, it turns out that *I* missed something. The Engadget article put up a picture of an HR 10-250, and I didn't recognize it. I thought it was a picture of the 'new' DTV TiVo.

My mistake...


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

It should end up looking a lot like an HR22 given that UL has a model THR-22 listed on their site.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> It should end up looking a lot like an HR22 given that UL has a model THR-22 listed on their site.


maybe we can hope that was just the model they started working with and a THR-24 will be out shortly? The 24 is noticeably faster than all the older models.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> maybe we can hope that was just the model they started working with and a THR-24 will be out shortly? The 24 is noticeably faster than all the older models.


Yes, we can hope. I am not so sure though, the 24 uses a completely different chipset, whereas the hr22 Broadcom chipset is very similar to the one found in the TiVo HD. Even the HR10-250 uses a Broadcom chipset, but the HR24's comes from a different company, uses a different architecture, and would need a much larger port effort to use. That larger porting effort could explain the delays we are seeing now, so hope springs eternal.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I guess it depends on how well their software architecture is laid out. But usually there is a very thin hardware abstraction layer that is all that needs to change for different platforms. Everything else is generic and runs on top of that. It would allow them to have one set of code for all the platforms they support. Seems odd they would pay to have a new HR22 variant manufactured. And then try to sell it as a premium DVR over the current HR24.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> I guess it depends on how well their software architecture is laid out. But usually there is a very thin hardware abstraction layer that is all that needs to change for different platforms. Everything else is generic and runs on top of that. It would allow them to have one set of code for all the platforms they support. Seems odd they would pay to have a new HR22 variant manufactured. And then try to sell it as a premium DVR over the current HR24.


While DirecTV DVR code is most certainly laid out that way, with the same code running on all the HRs, TiVo has never had, until recently, the need to do that. The Premiere (or perhaps the Comcast soft TiVo) may be their first attempt at a truly portable architecture for TiVo. People who hack the S1s and S2s see a customized Linux with a single TiVoApp running on top of it. While I am sure many elements of hardware are abstracted, I think they relied on Linux to do most of that in the past, and just got down and dirty in the TiVo App where they had to.


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## TrainWreck (Nov 9, 2003)

Both of these companies are service companies not product companies. Tivo is small and still fairly Mom and Pop. DirecTV has little experience developing products. It's no wonder this idea has been in limbo for eons. If it comes off at all it will be a miracle...


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

FWIW, when I had my HD install this week (two HR24s), the tech said that he had been told to expect the HD DirecTivo in June (of 2011).


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

Now it's CES: TiVo Expects DirecTV HD DVR This Year



> The development of the DirecTV box, which runs on a Thomson hardware platform, has "taken longer than we expected for a variety of reasons," said Naveen Chopra, TiVo senior vice president of corporate development and strategy. He declined to provide a more specific launch window for the product.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Amazing. I wonder if the DirecTV Tivo will ever see the light of day.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

seattlewendell said:


> That still an insane amount of time to build a box.


Except they aren't building a box. They've said several times they aren't designing new hardware; instead it'll be tivo software on a DTV HR2x box. It appears now that was a bad idea. Would it really have been that hard to adapt the series 3 (tivo hd) platform for current gen DTV?



CuriousMark said:


> A TiVo executive was quoted as saying...


Is this the same executive who's been saying it'll be ready "next quarter", for the past 2 years? I was joking with friends last week this is turning into the Duke Nukem of DVRs. Did they have anything to show as CES this year? Then I'm not expecting to see one by Christmas.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

cramer said:


> They've said several times they aren't designing new hardware; instead it'll be tivo software on a DTV HR2x box.


Really? When did they say that it would be tivo software on an HR2x box?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Rogers said so in late 2009 at a conference. It was in response to a question about whether or not the DirecTV box would be download like the Comcast TiVo. He said no, it would be its own box from DirecTV.

Since then there was a UL approval for a THR22 box from Technicolor (Thompson) found that supports this.

I believe the redacted agreement between TiVo and DirecTV, on the TiVo investor site also indicates it will be on HR hardware, but that document is hard to read, and it was a while ago that I read it, so I could be wrong about the agreement.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Really? When did they say that it would be tivo software on an HR2x box?


It's been confirmed from several sources that the HD Tivo is built on the HR22 hardware platform.


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## 230 (Nov 3, 1999)

I've heard the hardware will be supplied by Thompson, does that specifically mean the HR22? As long as it has the tivo software and remote, I really don't care what the box looks like.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

EJ said:


> I've heard the hardware will be supplied by Thompson, does that specifically mean the HR22? As long as it has the tivo software and remote, I really don't care what the box looks like.


Possibly. There are several manufacturers of the HR22 HD DVR. The HR22-100 is built by Thomson Electronics.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

Series3Sub said:


> Considering how unenthusiastic DirecTV has been during quarterly conference call when addressing the still in the works DircTiVo, and the fact the ONLY reason DirecTV is even coming out with the box is per contract with TiVo that prevents TiVo from suing DirecTV for patent infringement in exchange for the new DirecTiVo, I really wonder how buggy this new box will be. According to DirecTV CEO White, their isn't much the new DirecTiVo will do that the DirecTV DVR's don't or won't do. He tried very hard to downplay any advantage to the TiVo product and was, not surprisingly, trying to build up his own product during the quarterly some months ago.
> 
> DirecTV has been and is taking TiVo for a very long ride and every delay certainly has the smell of DirecTV's intention and purpose given DirecTV's attitude during public quarterlies and the contract preventing TiVo from suing DirecTV for patent infringement. DirecTV has all the cards right now, and as long as DirecTV says "on the way; it's coming; we promise" TiVo is highly unlikely to sue for breach of contract because TiVo desperately needs the revenue from DirecTV subs. In other words, I predict DirecTV is announce another delay, but make it clear it is almost finished. Yeah, right.


You'd think TiVo would've learnt their lessons from Comcast. What is that? 4 years?


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## pforkes (Oct 12, 2002)

On Saturday I was at the Consumer Electronics Show, in Las Vegas, and went to the TiVo meeting room to ask about the DirecTV TiVo unit rumored for the last few years. 

Each year I go along (since I live in Las Vegas) and ask TiVo the same question: "when with the DirecTV Hd TiVo unite be released". This year I got a different answer. Apparently, TiVo have done all the work and have submitted it to DirecTV, so it is now down to DirecTV.

Each time I call DirecTV for anything what-so-ever I am asked if there is 'anything else that they can help me with'. Each time I ask about the DirecTV HD TiVo unit and each time I am told that there is no information on it.

We need to keep asking DirecTV for information on this.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

If Tivo's work is complete, how long can DirecTV delay it. Sometime this year.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

TiVo has it in Beta test according to various reports, so I am not sure that it is fully "complete". I would hope that it was presented to DTV for evaluation even before it went into beta test.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

CuriousMark said:


> TiVo has it in Beta test according to various reports, so I am not sure that it is fully "complete". I would hope that it was presented to DTV for evaluation even before it went into beta test.


Maybe the beta test is the direct tv evaluation.


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## MarkSFCA (Oct 18, 2004)

My belief is that DirectTV and Comcast are waiting for the outcome of the legal suit against DISH/Echostar . . . and this is what I think will happen . . . if the outcome is favorable to TiVo, they will become serious about releasing the DirectTV TiVo and Comcast TiVo . . . and if DISH wins they will dump the pending TiVo boxes are leave them as "coming soon" indefinitely. Comcast and DirectTV are not taking TiVo seriously right now but they will take them seriously if TiVo wins the lawsuit. Only time will tell . . .


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

MarkSFCA said:


> My belief is that DirectTV and Comcast are waiting for the outcome of the legal suit against DISH/Echostar . . . and this is what I think will happen . . . if the outcome is favorable to TiVo, they will become serious about releasing the DirectTV TiVo and Comcast TiVo . . . and if DISH wins they will dump the pending TiVo boxes are leave them as "coming soon" indefinitely. Comcast and DirectTV are not taking TiVo seriously right now but they will take them seriously if TiVo wins the lawsuit. Only time will tell . . .


Can you explain your logic on this one? How does Tivo's lawsuit with Dish affect Comcast or Directv? Even if Dish manages to get a workaround approved as noninfringing, Comcast and Directv do not have that workaround. Comcast and Directv DVR's are not identical to Dish DVR's. So even if by some miracle the Dish DVR's were found noninfringing as is, it still doesn't make the Comcast or Directv DVR's noninfringing.


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## MarkSFCA (Oct 18, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> Can you explain your logic on this one? How does Tivo's lawsuit with Dish affect Comcast or Directv? Even if Dish manages to get a workaround approved as noninfringing, Comcast and Directv do not have that workaround. Comcast and Directv DVR's are not identical to Dish DVR's. So even if by some miracle the Dish DVR's were found noninfringing as is, it still doesn't make the Comcast or Directv DVR's noninfringing.


It is based on the fact that it has taken years to roll out both the new DirecTV TiVo and the Comcast cable box with TiVo. Its obvious that DirecTV and Comcast have the resources to release an excellent TiVo product but they have not released anything. I think that they agreed to work with TiVo to avoid being sued by TiVo. Then, they drag their feet to release the boxes/upgrades for years to avoid TiVo from gaining any new customers from these agreements. They make it sound like they are working with TiVo but its just a tactic to avoid being sued by TiVo and by not releasing the products, it keeps TiVo from profiting off their customers.

If TiVo loses the appeal with DISH, both Comcast and DirecTV will drag their feet even longer to release these boxes/upgrades. If TiVo wins the appeal with DISH, then I believe that TiVo will FINALLY have the leverage it needs against DirecTV, Comcast, AT&T and Verizon and all these companies will take TiVo more seriously and will work on REAL agreements that actually produce a final product that can be used. The agreements with DirecTV and Comcast were made a number of years ago and still nothing has been released except for a few areas in New England (Comcast).

The only companies that are actually working with TiVo to produce products that can be used by their customers are the small cable companies (RCN and Suddenlink) because they dont have the resources to produce their own cable boxes that have all the bells and whistles that people want these days in their cable boxes.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

DIRECTV & TiVo have a no-litigation agreement in place. Part of this agreement allows for TiVo to product the DIRECTV TiVo. DIRECTV is responsible for Selling/Marketing the DIRECTV TiVo when it is ready. Since it is not yet being sold or marketed one can only assume that it is not yet ready.

I'm not sure how DIRECTV is "dragging their feet" .. It seems like DIRECTV is waiting on TiVo just as everyone else it. I do agree that DIRECTV doesn't really have a compelling reason to push TiVo to go faster .. but it also doesn't make sense to slow them down. A TiVo sale is still a subscription for DIRECTV. Win-Win.

With the no-litigation agreement in place (thru 2018), the DISH/TiVo litigation should have absolutely no bearing on the DIRECTV/TiVo relationship.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Really? When did they say that it would be tivo software on an HR2x box?


That's been all but confirmed. The HR2x is the slowest box D* has, too.

The guys in the dbstalk forum are starting to leak more info., which tells me the box is almost ready for release.

It's going to be nothing more than an HR10-250 with MPEG4 support. It won't have an ATSC tuner, MRV support, or Youtube/Netflix/Amazon/whatever video streaming support. I don't know if it will support D*'s VOD or the AM21 external ATSC tuner, but I think it would.

No one seems to know what the pricing will be, but it expected to cost more than an HR2x.


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## Raketemensch (Jun 1, 2010)

BobCamp1 said:


> The guys in the dbstalk forum are starting to leak more info., which tells me the box is almost ready for release.


Care to share a link?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

MarkSFCA said:


> It is based on the fact that it has taken years to roll out both the new DirecTV TiVo and the Comcast cable box with TiVo.


Which part of the new DirecTivo is waiting on Directv? My impression was Tivo was going to write all the software themselves. It seems very unlikely that Directv engineers are working on Tivo's code. I suspect that the wait is entirely because of design and manpower issues within Tivo itself.


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

BobCamp1 said:


> That's been all but confirmed. The HR2x is the slowest box D* has, too.


I might be confused...but what other production box does DirecTv have available besides the HR2x?


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

Raketemensch said:


> Care to share a link?


Here is the Q1 2011 thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=188103


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Rainy Dave said:


> I might be confused...but what other production box does DirecTv have available besides the HR2x?


The HR24 is a somewhat newer platform than the HR20/21/22/23 boxes. Of course, the HR24 wasn't available when Tivo started this work a few years back.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> Which part of the new DirecTivo is waiting on Directv? My impression was Tivo was going to write all the software themselves. It seems very unlikely that Directv engineers are working on Tivo's code. I suspect that the wait is entirely because of design and manpower issues within Tivo itself.


Current rumors suggest that Tivo has released the "final" product to DirecTV for final QA testing. This should mean that it will be available in a few more months. So perhaps it is indeed in DirecTV's hands now.


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

litzdog911 said:


> The HR24 is a somewhat newer platform than the HR20/21/22/23 boxes. Of course, the HR24 wasn't available when Tivo started this work a few years back.


Yep, I know that. Just wondering what mythical piece of hardware the poster was talking about. An HR24 is still in the HR2x family.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Rainy Dave said:


> Yep, I know that. Just wondering what mythical piece of hardware the poster was talking about. An HR24 is still in the HR2x family.


The poster was being confusing by calling everything a HR2x. He really meant HR24 vs. HR2(0,1,2,3)

The current rumor is that the Tivo will be based on the HR22.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> The HR24 is a somewhat newer platform than the HR20/21/22/23 boxes. Of course, the HR24 wasn't available when Tivo started this work a few years back.


The HR24 was in progress at the time. So Tivo surely knew it was coming and what was in it when they started. And since it took them 2+ years to finish, one has to question if maybe the HR24 was the better way for them to go. How long can they keep selling Tivos based on the HR22 when Directv is selling 24's, 25's, etc. Sooner or later Tivo will have to move to a newer hardwrae platform.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

brott said:


> DIRECTV & TiVo have a no-litigation agreement in place. Part of this agreement allows for TiVo to product the DIRECTV TiVo. DIRECTV is responsible for Selling/Marketing the DIRECTV TiVo when it is ready. Since it is not yet being sold or marketed one can only assume that it is not yet ready.
> 
> I'm not sure how DIRECTV is "dragging their feet" .. It seems like DIRECTV is waiting on TiVo just as everyone else it. I do agree that DIRECTV doesn't really have a compelling reason to push TiVo to go faster .. but it also doesn't make sense to slow them down. A TiVo sale is still a subscription for DIRECTV. Win-Win.
> 
> With the no-litigation agreement in place (thru 2018), the DISH/TiVo litigation should have absolutely no bearing on the DIRECTV/TiVo relationship.


there's a LOT of gray areas in life. Directv can throw a lot of roadblocks at TiVo -if they wanted. 
"oh did we forget to tell you that we're changing the way format the guide data?" 
"Oh we know we told you to code for the HR22, but just we changed our mind- and we think you want to code for the HR24- might as well stop wasting your time on the HR22 codebase. We'll get you the HR24 info in 30 days. Wait just a week more- we almost have the specs for you. Oh never mind go back to the HR22 we changed our mind again."
"hurry up and port the S2/S3 code to our hardware so we can get this out quick. Almost done? Oh we meant to tell you we dont want to release that old dog- please give us premiere code so we can properly market it"

I don't know if any of that is happening but clearly you have never experienced an adversarial business relationship. I have. People can screw with you if you have no power.

When you are the little fry and need the work (eg TiVo)- you put up with a certain degree of abuse because you have no power in the relationship and you need the money and you hope to work with the big dog for the next several years. So you dont want to piss in the cheerios by suing over contract language just yet.

Again - no idea if that's going on. But just cause there is a contract you can't categorically deny that Directv isn't gumming up the works. I suspect it's a lot of tivo incompetence/slow going mixed in with some directv needling. But that's just my take. Just ask a cell phone company how the approval process is at Verizon and you can see the big dog can screw up the little dog's schedule very easily.

What's Directv's motivation? No idea. But I just suspect tivo couldn't be this incompetent. maybe they could be though...


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

A lot of this ...



MichaelK said:


> ... it's a lot of tivo incompetence


peppered with some of this ...



> ... the approval process ...


Really, I think it's just a bigger task than TiVo thought it would be. TiVo would have done itself a favor if it had left the 2H/2009 target out of the original announcement - that's probably the biggest mistake they made.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

brott said:


> I think it's just a bigger task than TiVo thought it would be. TiVo would have done itself a favor if it had left the 2H/2009 target out of the original announcement - that's probably the biggest mistake they made.


It's public record when DirecTV announced that it had provided Tivo with specs for the machine. I don't think it's been an unreasonably long period of time since then (assuming it's actually in end-user testing now).

You can argue, I suppose, that Tivo should not have commented _at all_ on a release timeframe until DirecTV had finalized the specs.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Wil said:


> It's public record when DirecTV announced that it had provided Tivo with specs for the machine. I don't think it's been an unreasonably long period of time since then (assuming it's actually in end-user testing now).
> 
> You can argue, I suppose, that Tivo should not have commented _at all_ on a release timeframe until DirecTV had finalized the specs.


For DirecTV it doesn't seem to have been horribly late yet... though that'd be if they were starting from scratch; considering they had a base to start with, one might think it should have moved quicker than it has.

But their Comcast integration has been horribly delayed... still not fully deployed on Motorola equipment and not deployed at all on Cisco/Scientific Atlanta equipment. Heck, considering they managed a full port to new Cisco hardware for Virgin in the UK, I almost expect to see that be the platform Comcast uses for TiVo in Cisco/Scientific Atlanta markets instead of the antique box they had expected to use.


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