# HR20 in August



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I am posting this in one thread as an response to all the other threads that where out over the last couple days (regarding delays)..

http://www.tvweek.com/page.cms?pageId=202

This is the formal DirecTV response to the Forbes and Swani articles.

The HR20 is to be release in August... LA will be the first market to get it.

The discussion can be continued over at www.dbstalk.com


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

That's a pilot, not a release.

By that same logic, the HD Tivo 6.3 software has been released.

This looks like major spin to me.

"Released" is when I can order it on-line or pick it up from Best Buy.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Another poster on another forum posted this...

[partial quote]

_It is no different then when they released the AT9 dish and the H20 in Detroit first...
So does that not count as a "release" ? 
_
[/partial quote]

I guess FIOS isn't released then, as I can't call up an order it, or pick it up from Best Buy.
I mean it is only available in a limited area... because they are "rolling it out"

Or is MPEG-4 Locals not released... because it is only available in limited areas...


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## pecocus (Jun 9, 2004)

If I were D*, I'd roll out the HR20's in roughly the same order as I was deploying (or had deployed) MPEG 4 cities. After all, those are the DVR owners who had been waiting the longest for the ability to get the MPEG 4 feeds. Wasn't LA one of the first cities to get MPEG 4 locals?


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## jm_sullivan (Dec 10, 2003)

Isn't LA on MPEG-2 still as the west coast feed? this sounds like a plausible decision that a CEO would make. I believe this one.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

LA has the MPEG-4 as well.


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## srt (Jan 27, 2006)

paticence grasshoppers. I know nothing, yet I know that last week I received an envelope from D* that included a channel line-up AND a 1/3 sheet note that clearly said " Congratulations. You now have a new DIRECT'TV DVR...."
copy avaliable but I do not know how to post a pic here.
I live in nor*cal, but have LA feed for hd because there is no hd broadcast anywhere near here. I believe, with some amount of certainity, that sometime in the future I will get a new dish and box to replace or 3lnb and hr10-250.
Sometime. I also believe the above was packaged and mailed a little early, intentionally? Typical D* left hand/right hand fashion? Who knows, does it really matter?


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## kbcrowe (Dec 12, 2000)

ebonovic said:


> LA has the MPEG-4 as well.


Yes, but the point is they are the one city with HD locals besides NY that doesn't need an MPEG-4 DVR.
GG D*


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Well yes... (Regarding LA having both)

LA is also where they have one of there larger offices


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> I guess FIOS isn't released then, as I can't call up an order it, or pick it up from Best Buy.
> I mean it is only available in a limited area... because they are "rolling it out"
> 
> Or is MPEG-4 Locals not released... because it is only available in limited areas...


You can't be serious? FiOS and MPEG-4 Locals are not consumer electronic devices. You'd never call FiOS "released" or MPEG-4 locals "released". They're services.

You can't call a product "released" that is intended to be purchased anywhere, if you can only get it in one place.

That's a pilot, plain and simple. And it's painfully obvious DirecTV is getting bashed by everyone, and this is damage control.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

So why are services except from "release" status, when it is only available in limited markets? As service is a product that you purchase... is it not? So how about other technology (such as cell phones) that are only available in specific markets... are they not released? 

So why shouldn't they release it to just one market... to make sure their infrustructur is set, the installers are trained, and they work out all the kinks of the logistics of rolling out such a product. That is what they did for the H20 and the AT9 dish (aka.. they started in Detriot, and then moved on). And I don't think we heard "this is damage control", or Detroit is just an elaborate Beta testing city... why is the HR20 any different? They said Q3... and Q3 it is... 

"Damage Control"... of course it is damage control... Control of the damage from articles over the last two days, based on outdated information... It was answer to those questions and comments... Heck I bet your surprised that they even came out with a statement this fast.... 

Define "release" however you want....
But the bottom line is the HR20 will be in the hands of paying customers comes August 2006.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I'd call it a phased release.

Pilots are usually intended to prove concept and to limit usage. After a pilot, you usually retrench and adjust. That doesn't sound like that here. It sounds like the same way they release software for TiVos. Select markets and a rolling release.

They should follow the MPEG4 pattern and try to catch up to it so they are releasing the new DVRs at the same time they turn MPEG4 on in an area. Afterall, why release the new DVR where MPEG4 isn't available yet? That would be stupid.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

AbMagFab, please shut up. You anger me with your negative responses to Earl's posts. What is your deal anyway???


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Wow ... I can just see the debate now: Someday soon, one lucky TCF poster will report getting 6.3 downloaded and installed, indicating it has been released. As we all know, upgrades are rolled out gradually, so I'm sure some other TCF poster will challenge that first report of the 6.3 rollout claiming it's not "released' yet, as it's a product that's not yet available everywhere. Sheesh.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

tazzmission said:


> AbMagFab, please shut up. You anger me with your negative responses to Earl's posts. What is your deal anyway???


I too have been wondering what the deal is between these two... but on this one I will agree with AbMagFab...this shouldnt be considered a "release" but more of a "role out"


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## SecureTalk (Apr 8, 2002)

Ok, so now that the DirecTV HD DVR roll out [in one form or another] is starting in August. Is there any firm information of the pricing? Is it being given free to 10-250 owners, $99 or one of the many many claims of cost to the end customers made by folks here?

I am in the Philly, PA market, but not in range of OTA signals, so my only option to get HD locals is via satellite or cable (no OTA).

Thanks for any light anyone can shed on pricing.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

No pricing information has been released for the unit. 

Roll-out, phased release, release (apply your own tern here)... at the end of the day... the HR20 will be in the hands of customers.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> No pricing information has been released for the unit.
> 
> Roll-out, phased release, release (apply your own tern here)... at the end of the day... the HR20 will be in the hands of customers.


isnt this somthing that should actually be talked about on the other site? 
Damn you and your D* cheerleading earl you just come here to get certian people frustrated dont you... you can admit it we are all friends here... Long live the S3 Tivo


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Yes... but with at least 3 other threads (here at TCF)... talking about the delays of the new dvr.

And mentions of it in a few others... I wanted to at least post the updated information here.

I have no issue with taking it over to www.dbstalk.com
We actually already have a discussion thread going there as well:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61157


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

aztivo said:


> isnt this somthing that should actually be talked about on the other site?
> Damn you and your D* cheerleading earl you just come here to get certian people frustrated dont you... you can admit it we are all friends here... Long live the S3 Tivo


I wish the S3 no ill-will... I do hope it works the way it is supposed.
TiVo, Inc... paved the ways for DVRs...

I have purchased probably two dozen DTivos and TiVos amongst my family over the last 5 years (seriously, no joke... and that doesn't include all the people I TiVangolized over the last 5 years). I payed several hundred for my GXCEBOTs, and was #5 from Value Electronics for my $899 HR10-250...

TiVo is a great product... never said it wasn't...
I do hope that the CableCard issue get's resolved (with TWC), and Comcast TiVo works out well...

I have no stock or financial connects to DirecTV...
I primarily stay with DirecTV because Comcast is my only other option, except pure ota.


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## hancox (Dec 17, 2004)

aztivo said:


> I too have been wondering what the deal is between these two...


It's not the two of them, just one. Ever seen the scene in Caddyshack with the candy bar floating in the otherwise nice pool? There you go...


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## VaHDTVFan (Jun 3, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> So why are services except from "release" status, when it is only available in limited markets? As service is a product that you purchase... is it not? So how about other technology (such as cell phones) that are only available in specific markets... are they not released?
> 
> So why shouldn't they release it to just one market... to make sure their infrustructur is set, the installers are trained, and they work out all the kinks of the logistics of rolling out such a product. That is what they did for the H20 and the AT9 dish (aka.. they started in Detriot, and then moved on). And I don't think we heard "this is damage control", or Detroit is just an elaborate Beta testing city... why is the HR20 any different? They said Q3... and Q3 it is...
> 
> ...


Come on , You have to admit that this is damage control. Wall Street is very discouraged with the tap dancing. The original release was last fall. Then spring( Remember your bet from the begining of the year),then summer, now fall. 
E* has a great HD-DVR that works great on Mpeg 4.
If D* does not have these receivers out buy the new network season and the football season there will be quite a few customers changing services. I have given them a deadline of Aug. 30 or I will be switching to E*.
Investors want to see action not dancing with the stars!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> This is the formal DirecTV response to the Forbes and Swani articles.


LOL!

I can't imagine anyone bothering to have a formal response to anything Swanni has to say, let alone a corporation like DirecTV.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> LOL!
> 
> I can't imagine anyone bothering to have a formal response to anything Swanni has to say, let alone a corporation like DirecTV.


 True enough...

But there are enough people out there that treat his word as gospel...

As much as a lot of people don't likehim , there are plenty that do..


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Of course I could pick one up in LA and then set it up anywhere in the country I wanted. It's not like D* knows the difference or would care. You just need an AT9 dish.


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## HDTivoDesire (Apr 6, 2003)

Is the HR20 going to be useable, or is it junk compared to Tivo functionality?


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

On this forum it will be considered junk. Super junk if the S3 or Comcast isn't released at the same time. Double horrible can't even look at it junk when you come here.

If you go to the other place, or if you plop it in front of a DVR newbie, probably not junk. 

It's all perspective.

In any case, it's good news for everyone. Even the TiVo loyalists. Competition will help drive TiVo to continue to offer the highest level of features and service.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

I think D* does not want another issue where most of went nuts trying to buy the HR10-250 when it was first released. By limiting it to a market they can better control the inventory limitations.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

The phased release gives their tech support time to get up to speed without getting a flood of calls all at once. It's also just a good idea with any new software related product. No matter who does it, it won't be perfect on day one. This will give them a chance to see it in use by real customers and see what needs tweaking before full release.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> In any case, it's good news for everyone. Even the TiVo loyalists. Competition will help drive TiVo to continue to offer the highest level of features and service.


You do realize that Tivo has a ton of features DirecTV won't let them release? Mostly because it makes their own DVR look less compelling?

Competition only works in an open market. This is anything but an open market.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

gquiring said:


> I think D* does not want another issue where most of went nuts trying to buy the HR10-250 when it was first released. By limiting it to a market they can better control the inventory limitations.


There you go. Drink more cool-aid!

Name a single other consumer electronic device that's released this way. HD-DVD? Blu-ray? Xbox 360?

You can't. Know why? Because you only release things this way when you're piloting them. This is a pilot, solely to try to get wall-street off their backs. If it fails in any way, DirecTV is in trouble (at least in the market).


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> You do realize that Tivo has a ton of features DirecTV won't let them release? Mostly because it makes their own DVR look less compelling?
> 
> Competition only works in an open market. This is anything but an open market.


It's open. TiVo negotiated their own deal with DTV. They were free to do it. DTV exercised the control needed to assure themselves protection. TiVo allowed it. That is open.

Do you really want to suggest that a market becomes closed because one party either has no negotiating leverage or no ability to negotiate?

TiVo did what they needed to put money in their pocket. They share this with DTV. Don't forget that.

Now, they are no longer in bed together and they can compete. It's a good thing for everyone. What you had before (and apparently want back) is a partnership that will/did restrict the competition.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> It's open. TiVo negotiated their own deal with DTV. They were free to do it. DTV exercised the control needed to assure themselves protection. TiVo allowed it. That is open.
> 
> Do you really want to suggest that a market becomes closed because one party either has no negotiating leverage or no ability to negotiate?
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? Your original premise was the HR20 was good because competition is good.

However by your own words above, Tivo is hamstrung by DirecTV. The HR20 will do nothing to help that.

Additionally, Tivo has been releasing tons of new features, all on their own, without the HR20, that aren't available to us at DirecTV. This has nothing to do with DirecTV releasing their own DVR's, as it's not available to us.

You really aren't making much sense, or a cohesive argument.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Name a single other consumer electronic device that's released this way. HD-DVD? Blu-ray? Xbox 360?


Sure... at least two of those... HD-DVD and XBOX360 (I have to check on Blu-Ray)

"Technically speaking"... they where/are in limited release.

HD-DVD was first released in Japan before the US
The HD-DVD recorder is still only available in Japan

XBOX360 was first release to the United States, then to other parts of the world.

Or does that not count because it is on a "global" scale, instead of just in the United States... Or I guess it doesn't count because "slightly" different units went to different places.

What is so different between what they are doing this time, with the HR20... then with what they did with the H20 and Detroit?


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

It is much more of an open market than it used to be. Most people have OTA, cable, and 2 satellite providers to get their signal from. Dish has never permitted people a choice as to which manufacturer's receivers you could use. Dish was it! (Still is) Cable companies were dragged kicking and screaming into the world of cable card. Still very limited choices with all cable companies. 

DirecTV was the only TV signal company that until recently did not market its own hardware. All they are doing now is what everyone else has been doing since day one.

Rupert Murdoch made a strategic decision which he hopes will give the bottom line (and therefore the shareholders) a financial boost. Consumers CAN vote by choosing to buy or not to buy DirecTV services, including the hardware that comes with those services. Most consumers have at least two other TV signal services to choose from.

It IS an open market. The FCC is charged with making sure it stays that way.


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## ziggy29 (Jul 26, 2002)

ShiningBengal said:


> It IS an open market. The FCC is charged with making sure it stays that way.


 One could argue that the exclusivity agreement between DTV and the NFL for Sunday Ticket makes it somewhat less open and competitiv for consumers who really want that product.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Sure... at least two of those... HD-DVD and XBOX360 (I have to check on Blu-Ray)
> 
> "Technically speaking"... they where/are in limited release.
> 
> ...


Now you're just being a "devil's advocate".

Different countries have completely different sales, export, and marketing laws and regulations. None of those devices went partially to a single market.

It's amazing to me how you can continue to blindly defend DirecTV, when they are so clearly:
a) Doing a pilot, and based on the current state of the R15, the HR20 is unlikely to be any better, and most likely worse. They know the software isn't ready, but
b) They need to do damage control because Wall Street is bashing them (and IMHO, rightly so).


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ShiningBengal said:


> It is much more of an open market than it used to be. Most people have OTA, cable, and 2 satellite providers to get their signal from. Dish has never permitted people a choice as to which manufacturer's receivers you could use. Dish was it! (Still is) Cable companies were dragged kicking and screaming into the world of cable card. Still very limited choices with all cable companies.
> 
> DirecTV was the only TV signal company that until recently did not market its own hardware. All they are doing now is what everyone else has been doing since day one.
> 
> ...


But the point is, the HR20 will not prompt Tivo to do anything differently, because they can't directly compete with it. Tivo already has TONS of competitive features that have been out for 1 year+, but DirecTV won't let Tivo give them to us. The HR20 is a non-factor for Tivo at this point.

In DirecTV world, it's not an open market. It's closed, and completely controlled by DirecTV. There is no competition within DirecTV.

The S3 Tivo, however, is what competition does in an open marketplace. That's what CableCard does - provide an open marketplace for cable. However, most of the cable companies want to kill CableCard. Go figure.

This is not an open market.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> In DirecTV world, it's not an open market. It's closed, and completely controlled by DirecTV. There is no competition within DirecTV.
> 
> This is not an open market.


What?

Is there competition within Exxon/Mobile? Is there competition "within" most companies, I know GM is a good example of a company that has competition with in it.

If you don't want Direct TV get Dish.... or Cable. I want the NFLST so I have to have Direct TV. They have something I want so I put up with them.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

My take on the "RELEASE" is that it will be somewhat limited and arranged only through D*. I don't believe for a second that I could walk into a BB or CC in LA and buy one of these.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Different countries have completely different sales, export, and marketing laws and regulations. None of those devices went partially to a single market.


Some would say that about LA


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm just happy knowing I won't be the first guinea pig to try this thing out. Of course, there are STILL a lot of beta testers using the R-15 aren't there?


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> What are you talking about? Your original premise was the HR20 was good because competition is good.
> 
> However by your own words above, Tivo is hamstrung by DirecTV. The HR20 will do nothing to help that.
> 
> ...


Talk about lack of cohesion. 

Address my post. Address why it's so bad for DTV that this is pushed back until August, but it's not bad that the Comcast unit is beyond target? Address whether or not you believe the DVR market to be open or closed? Address whether you believe that TiVo's platforms must be able to compete against those that also offer programming. Address whether that competition is good or bad for the consumer.

Stop waving your arms around and kicking up dust. The above represent unanswered questions in my posts to you. I think we share a higher level of agreement than you think. Your answers will show that.

It's ok for us to agree on a few things. Nobody is going to claim you like the new units. Don't worry, you're safe.

Edit to Add: I see another post below the one I quoted where you answer a bit of this.

Problem is that even if DTV is closed, that is not the makret in which these people are competing. They are competing for TV/Entertainment/DVR dollars. TiVo must compete here and the fact that DTV has a DVR, any DVR will force TiVo to compete. Theirs HAS to be better because they offer no programming. A user has to deal with third party devices and their compatibility with the unit etc.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> There you go. Drink more cool-aid!
> 
> Name a single other consumer electronic device that's released this way. HD-DVD? Blu-ray? Xbox 360?


And none of those products require a service. They are just plain consumer products. The HR10-250 inventories were pure madness when it came it. Your turn for the cool-aid.....


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

ziggy29 said:


> One could argue that the exclusivity agreement between DTV and the NFL for Sunday Ticket makes it somewhat less open and competitiv for consumers who really want that product.


Ummm, why would the FCC have anything to do with that? The NFL can sell their product however and to whomever they want to.

Just as Comcast chooses to not sell their Comcast Sport Philly station to any satellite provider.

Or that the company that produces CSI only chooses to sell their shows to CBS. Oh the horror! CBS has a monopoly on CSI! Call the FCC!


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## itsmeitsmeitsme (Nov 13, 2003)

AbMagFab, I am curious, what service do you have?


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## jdblack911 (Jan 22, 2004)

I think it's obvious that AbMag doesn't understand simple proven techniques of product marketing and fulfillment. No matter what D* record in the past or how they might be trying to "spin" this, scores of companies use controlled release. This isn't a plug for D*, stop trying to read into it so much. Controlled release helps improve marketing strategies and internal procedures to deal with new product and gear up for widescale fulfillment.

If you want to argue about best practices in business process workflows, get an MBA and then argue objectively. The only thing most of us want is the best product at the best price, period.


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

I am more than OK with letting someone else take the risks with the early unit. I have been lucky, lucky, with #29 HR-10 from VE two years ago. I think it is a wonderful machine. Perfect? Hell no, but except for me and my dogs, what is?

I feel sure that in 6-9 months, the new DirecTv HD DVR will be better than when it is "released", however limited, next month.

Then, we can all decide between Direct, Dish, and Comcast DVRs, including the obviously holy grail some see as the S3.

And BTW, I think DirecTv has the full rights to restrict any manufactuer from accessing its technology or audience.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

jmrife said:


> And BTW, I think DirecTv has the full rights to restrict any manufactuer from accessing its technology or audience.


They do. I just wish that when the FCC was doing the cablecard thing that they included satellite providers as well.

Could you imagine an S3 that also received D* or E*?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

jdblack911 said:


> I think it's obvious that AbMag doesn't understand simple proven techniques of product marketing and fulfillment. No matter what D* record in the past or how they might be trying to "spin" this, scores of companies use controlled release. This isn't a plug for D*, stop trying to read into it so much. Controlled release helps improve marketing strategies and internal procedures to deal with new product and gear up for widescale fulfillment.
> 
> If you want to argue about best practices in business process workflows, get an MBA and then argue objectively. The only thing most of us want is the best product at the best price, period.


Yeah, okay. DirecTV didn't do a "controlled release" with:
1) The DirecTivo Series 1
2) The DirecTivo Series 2
3) The R10
4) The R15
5) The HR10-250
6) Any of the non-DVR's since the mid-90's

But they suddenly want to do it for the HR20, and you're calling it "simple proven techniques of business marketing"?

Reality >> Books. This is damage control, plain and simple. They aren't ready to release it, but they have to to keep wall street at bay.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

#6: They most certainly did do it with the H20 model and AT9 dish.... 

Maybe they learned from the fiasco release of the HR10-250.

Considering that probably a significant amount of users upgrading to the HR20 are going to be in the same boat... (needing the upgraded dish)... It stands to reason that they may want to follow the same method they used in that case.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> #6: They most certainly did do it with the H20 model and AT9 dish....
> 
> Maybe they learned from the fiasco release of the HR10-250.
> 
> Considering that probably a significant amount of users upgrading to the HR20 are going to be in the same boat... (needing the upgraded dish)... It stands to reason that they may want to follow the same method they used in that case.


This rollout model makes a lot of sense for the customer, the installer, and the call-in centers. Target a specific geographic region for the rollout, send mass-mailings to the targeted customers after first updating and notifying the front-line CSRs, train the installers, and start setting up appointments. Problems found in the first wave of installs can then be reported, resulting in updated scheduling and/or installation procedures, making it that much easier on the second wave.


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## heathramos (Jul 26, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Yeah, okay. DirecTV didn't do a "controlled release" with:
> 1) The DirecTivo Series 1
> 2) The DirecTivo Series 2
> 3) The R10
> ...


I guess you are assuming Directv wouldn't have done a controlled release if articles criticising them hadn't been pubished.

They may have publicized their planned controlled release at that time in part because of damage control but I doubt they would release a product early because of it.

That doesn't mean a controlled release isn't just another name for beta testing at a larger level (either that or maybe they haven't manufactured enough for the demand and figured they would get less complaints this way).


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

heathramos said:


> I guess you are assuming Directv wouldn't have done a controlled release if articles criticising them hadn't been pubished.


I think the "Announcement" was in response... as people where stating things where delayed again... with nothing being delayed...

I don't think the "August" was in response to the articles, as August corresponds to the information I received (and posted) back in mid June...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=59171



heathramos said:


> That doesn't mean a controlled release isn't just another name for beta testing at a larger level (either that or maybe they haven't manufactured enough for the demand and figured they would get less complaints this way).


Or part of it is to work out the logistics of the installs, the ordering, ect....
As this is the first major release of a product under the new leasing system...

And most installs are going to require the updated dish.


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## VaHDTVFan (Jun 3, 2006)

jdblack911 said:


> I think it's obvious that AbMag doesn't understand simple proven techniques of product marketing and fulfillment. No matter what D* record in the past or how they might be trying to "spin" this, scores of companies use controlled release. This isn't a plug for D*, stop trying to read into it so much. Controlled release helps improve marketing strategies and internal procedures to deal with new product and gear up for widescale fulfillment.
> 
> If you want to argue about best practices in business process workflows, get an MBA and then argue objectively. The only thing most of us want is the best product at the best price, period.


I am not agreeing with AbMag, but you can call this nothing but damage control.
Wall Street is very impatient. Unlike D* customers that have been waiting forever!
There are customers nationwide that have H20 receivers as a temporary measure waiting for a HR20. 
We have been told for nine months that "it won't be long now". When we were told 1st Qtr, June, Summer, August, we were not told that that meant only the first markets. Does this mean the roll out is going to take as long as the Mpeg4 local channels?
Depending on who you believe, this is why D* is loosing market share fast.
You can call it best business practices if you want.
I call it do and say what ever the customer wants to hear in order to keep them regardless of the truth.


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## VaHDTVFan (Jun 3, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> I think the "Announcement" was in response... as people where stating things where delayed again... with nothing being delayed...
> 
> I don't think the "August" was in response to the articles, as August corresponds to the information I received (and posted) back in mid June...
> 
> ...


Come on, you have a short memory!
The delays (plural) began when D* announced the release would be 1st Quarter 2006. You even lost a bet that the delays would not be any longer that July.
In technology we would all agree that delays are going to happen, but stop preaching that this was the plan all along!


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## Brewer4 (May 6, 2004)

I just wish stuff was released (more national HD, more HD LIL, MPEG4 DVR, 6.3 for HD Tivo, HMC, etc.). I've never seen the D* forums so full of venom and piss. But then we got more during the growth phase of D* didnt we? I just remember new units, new channels, new HD, new sats, etc. It was exciting. I really felt part of something grand and new.

Now.....

I am just as frustrated as other folks here. Lets just all hope units start coming out or its going to get uglier then this!! I am just sick and tired of good threads gone bad because nothing happens (or gets delayed again and again and again.....).


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Where have I said, "August 2006" was the date all along.... I haven't...
It has been the time frame that I have been saying since June... and before that it was Q3, which came from Q2/Q3...

I don't think I ever said Q1... as that wasn't even the time frame for the CES discussions... 


Have things changed from the CES announcements and some of the original announcemtns from way back when... sure... but have they haven't changed in the last 3-4 months


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## VaHDTVFan (Jun 3, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> Where have I said, "August 2006" was the date all along.... I haven't...
> It has been the time frame that I have been saying since June... and before that it was Q3, which came from Q2/Q3...
> 
> I don't think I ever said Q1... as that wasn't even the time frame for the CES discussions...
> ...


I am just tired of all the reports that just get our hopes up. I would have switched to E* in January if D* would have been honest and told us that the release was going to be the end of th year. I have to much time and money invested now to switch.
I did not say your forecast has been August all along. I said your comment "as people where stating things where delayed again... with nothing being delayed" implies that there have not been several delays.
If you are arging that D* did not forecast Q1 release I can send you e-mails from them after they sold me a HD-DVR they did not have in November 2005!


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Where have I said, "August 2006" was the date all along.... I haven't...
> It has been the time frame that I have been saying since June... and before that it was Q3, which came from Q2/Q3...
> 
> I don't think I ever said Q1... as that wasn't even the time frame for the CES discussions...
> ...


FYI - not sure of its validiity but from the article you quoted in the original post:



> The Tivo-replacing HD DVRs were originally supposed to roll out last fall. Then early this year. Then this fall.


I dont recall you ever saying much about date, but someone was certainly BS'ing Robert at value electronics about last year too. If I recall first they told him fall then soft rollout in December last year.


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## Brewer4 (May 6, 2004)

VaHDTVFan said:


> I am just tired of all the reports that just get our hopes up. I would have switched to E* in January if D* would have been honest and told us that the release was going to be the end of th year. I have to much time and money invested now to switch.
> I did not say your forecast has been August all along. I said your comment "as people where stating things where delayed again... with nothing being delayed" implies that there have not been several delays.
> If you are arging that D* did not forecast Q1 release I can send you e-mails from them after they sold me a HD-DVR they did not have in November 2005!


Definately blame D*. I've read alot of ebonivic's stuff and I dont remember him building up hype that the unit was coming in January. Folks lets not shoot the messengers if they pass what they've been told and someone at D* pulls the plug or delays something. I blame these stupid threads and arguments on D*.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> but someone was certainly BS'ing Robert at value electronics about last year too. If I recall first they told him fall then soft rollout in December last year.


I thought that was for the HMC?????

D* is between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, they need to get an HD DVR out there, but they also need to make sure it is not the bug-ridden thing the R15 was at launch.

So I guess they have made the choice to make sure it is as right as it can be at the expense of it being delayed.

Worst case scenario for D*, it is delayed again and is as bug-ridden as the R15.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

Brewer4 said:


> I just wish stuff was released (more national HD, more HD LIL, MPEG4 DVR, 6.3 for HD Tivo, HMC, etc.). I've never seen the D* forums so full of venom and piss. But then we got more during the growth phase of D* didnt we? I just remember new units, new channels, new HD, new sats, etc. It was exciting. I really felt part of something grand and new.
> 
> Now.....
> 
> I am just as frustrated as other folks here. Lets just all hope units start coming out or its going to get uglier then this!! I am just sick and tired of good threads gone bad because nothing happens (or gets delayed again and again and again.....).


The bottom line is DirecTV has been providing the customers with NO information. None at all. Hang all of their good paying customers out to dry basically while other services have been moving forward on the HD front. On top of this, they have been reducing PQ to an all time low on HD and SD channels. The fact they announce all of these RSNs and crap is just icing on the cake. IT means less bandwidth and probably even worse quality for us all over the next year or so.

As for the threads going to heck, its because of this lack of information. If we had something concrete to discuss things would probably be better. Right now, from what I have seen the past year and half I would have to suspect that we willb e dealing with more of the same with regards to quality. DirecTV will be shoving alot more garbage down the line once MPEG4 is fully released and we will once agian be faced with what we have now.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

Brewer4 said:


> Definately blame D*. I've read alot of ebonivic's stuff and I dont remember him building up hype that the unit was coming in January. Folks lets not shoot the messengers if they pass what they've been told and someone at D* pulls the plug or delays something. I blame these stupid threads and arguments on D*.


I agree with the "lets not shooet the messengers" but you also need to understand when you are so pro something and think you are helping others and report what your "inside information" is and it is always well it got changed or this or that people are going to jump all over you, because you are the one talking. While I dont agree with people jumping on someone they do kind of call for it when they are waving the flag as hard as they can


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