# Gut Check. Time to Dump the HR10-250?



## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

I need some advice.

I have an HR10-250, and I love it. It never fails recording, has a great picture, and is easy to use.

EXCEPT WHEN IT'S WINDY.

My OTA antenna works fine, unless it's windy outside. Even a small wind of about 20 MPH will drive my antenna crazy, and make my reception unwatchable. I've tried everything I can think of to adjust the antenna, so I've given up on that.

On the other hand, my Directv signals, are always fine, no matter what the weather. 

So my question is, should I go to the HR20 where I can get all channels over Directv and not worry about the OTA, or am I crazy to get rid of an otherwise very good receiver?

I'm watching the NCAA basketball tourney now, and it's killing me to not have HD.


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

Is your antenna inside or outside? I have an OTA antenna on the roof of my townhouse (got lucky the previous owner had it installed) and get great OTA reception. I would suggestion taking a look at that first, wind should not affect the antenna at all if its installed properly - we had a wind storm last week with 50-60mph winds the whole night and ours was fine.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sounds like your antenna needs to be better installed. A properly installed rooftop antenna can withstand near hurricane force winds and not be knocked off alignment.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

My OTA silver sensor works great inside. If I had problems I would install a channel master antenna in the attic.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

Maybe your antenna cable has a marginal connection, and the wind makes it start flexing?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Wind can play havoc with an antenna in more ways than making it move. If there are trees near the antenna, the movement of the trees can create/change multipaths and cause the signal to go hinky.

It is not clear if the antenna is indoors or outdoors for the OP.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I have bad MP issues in the wind. Not reliable at all.

I just installed my Slimline today, ready to give the HR20 a shot.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> Wind can play havoc with an antenna in more ways than making it move. If there are trees near the antenna, the movement of the trees can create/change multipaths and cause the signal to go hinky.
> 
> It is not clear if the antenna is indoors or outdoors for the OP.


Antenna is in the attic, A channel master 4221. I have a lot of trees and a highway sound barrier in my backyard, facing the Broadcast towers. I'm fairly certain my problem is multipath.

So, as I said, my antenna reception is good when there is no wind, and awful when there is.

Anymore opinions?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

You are right, its MP.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

As much as I loved my HR10-250, I made the jump to the HR20 and so far have been happy with it. It is still showing it's youthfulness and the software still has room for improvement, but if you check into discussions over on DBSTalk.com (sister to this site, the TivoCommunity.com forums) you'll see a lot less griping about the HR20.

There's also the ability to participate in cutting edge downloads which lets you purposefully get versions of the software that normally bring new features and fixes.

I still wish it was a Powered By TiVo box, but it's not and at this point it seems that DirecTV just won't have a new HD DVR with TiVo software, at least not for a while.

Summary: if you are thinking of trying the HR20, you should be ok. Just remind yourself it's not TiVo, won't have the same interface, and may not have exactly the same features. But it will have MPEG4 HD content, and that is where things will be in the future :up:


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

You might try a little tweaking of the antenna anyway. You could help alleviate some MP.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Oh, lest anyone start to query me on what happened to my HR10-250, still have it, but now it's the Wife/Daughter DirecTV TiVo box for my living room. They were used to the TiVo interface, the box still works great for us for the few HD channels that DirecTV is currently offering, and works extremely well for us for over the air channels. As it turns out, I have some of the same MP issues that are mentioned above, bu those issues attack primarily *my* receiver(s), and not the living room receiver since the living room is connected to a different antenna with much better clearance from the big tree in my yard.

My wife was pleasantly surprised earlier today when she stumbled upon Universal Hi-Def channel and was able to watch one of her old favorites: Northern Exposure. For her the channel was "new" since she's still not learned the HD pack line-up yet


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## atlantadan (Aug 8, 2005)

I get the same prob when it is windy. My OTA is inside

Here in Atlanta it was very windy the last couple days, and it the OTA channels were all a prob

I'm going to put up with it and hand on to what I have for now, until the rest of the HD channels come out in the fall


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

atlantadan said:


> I get the same prob when it is windy. My OTA is inside
> 
> Here in Atlanta it was very windy the last couple days, and it the OTA channels were all a prob
> 
> I'm going to put up with it and hand on to what I have for now, until the rest of the HD channels come out in the fall


Certainly not an expensive option for the time being, but one recommendation and thing to consider -- if you will be looking for the new HD channels and *are* planning on getting an HR20 to receive them, then be ready to get one about 3 months in advance of when you expect the channels to launch, or at least be ready to put in the order for one.

The install dates for some people have been anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months out, which is why I mention the idea of "get in line early."

A good friend was asking me earlier when the new channels will really hit, as some seem like they may not be here until next year (the recently announced group of Disney channels as an example), but personally I'm guessing the same way you mention here -- fall of 2007. It would surprise me if we don't see some new HD content lighting up in time for the start of the fall TV season. The summers are normally repeats for the most part (with people on vacation and such), but once fall rolls around everyone will be back into watching TV and many will be looking for new content to check out.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, there's always the S3. Its OTA reception is more reliable than the HR10-250, and my Fios connection is unaffected by the weather.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stiffi said:


> Antenna is in the attic, A channel master 4221. I have a lot of trees and a highway sound barrier in my backyard, facing the Broadcast towers. I'm fairly certain my problem is multipath.
> 
> So, as I said, my antenna reception is good when there is no wind, and awful when there is.
> 
> Anymore opinions?


I don't think there is much of anything else that could cause this problem.

If MP interference increases when it is windy, then the obvious solution is to upgrade the antenna to one that is more directional, such as a 4228, which means it will tolerate a higher level of off-angle MP interference. For $50 and an hour in the attic, better performance can be yours (and I would not wait until warmer weather comes).

But interference is cumulative. If there are other things contributing to the relative level of interference, such as FM broadcasts from the same location, an FM trap could help (gave me 5 more points on all channels). Or if you are in a marginal reception area (towers are distant...over 35 miles) a preamp might be in order.


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## jhillestad (Jul 13, 2004)

Sounds like wind is part of the problem.... the real culprit is the trees that are blowing in that wind causing you multipath !

Use an outdoor rig with a antenna motor so you can move it around without going on the roof and peak that baby and you'll be fine.


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## tividiot (Apr 25, 2002)

bdowell said:


> As much as I loved my HR10-250, I made the jump to the HR20 and so far have been happy with it. It is still showing it's youthfulness and the software still has room for improvement, but if you check into discussions over on DBSTalk.com (sister to this site, the TivoCommunity.com forums) you'll see a lot less griping about the HR20.


The lessening of griping isn't entirely because the HR20 is stabilizing. It's because the mods at dbstalk.com and the DTV apologists pounce on any newbie who reports a problem. Recently, a mod even questioned whether people reporting problems were telling the truth. This constant wave of repeat posters who denegrate those who post with problems has played a role in lessening the number of gripes, IMO.


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## swizzlest (Sep 13, 2003)

tividiot said:


> The lessening of griping isn't entirely because the HR20 is stabilizing. It's because the mods at dbstalk.com and the DTV apologists pounce on any newbie who reports a problem. Recently, a mod even questioned whether people reporting problems were telling the truth. This constant wave of repeat posters who denegrate those who post with problems has played a role in lessening the number of gripes, IMO.


The software is getting better. But it's still a long way from good. I would wager a decent number of people have given up. I know I did this week. Procured an HR10-250, it's now zippered with 2 500gb drives and working beautifully. Oh how I missed Tivo.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

[EDIT: Why bother with response.]

Original Poster, if you plan on staying with DirecTV in the future no matter what (have no other options) then the HR20 is in your future no matter what. You can get in on the ground floor and help make a better product (plus get your locals in HD now) or you can wait around and see what happens. Or try a better and bigger antenna outside and see what you get. If you have the money I'd do both. Upgrade your antenna for more reliable OTA and get the HR20 for a small upgrade fee. Keep the HR10 as it's still just fine for recording OTA, SD and what HD is on MPEG2 for the time being.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Get in on the ground floor? What're you, smoking crack? That's just insane. All this excuse-making for the HR20 is like putting lipstick on a pig. It'll still be a pig. The combined abuse of the customers forcing a junk DVR on them, with unfinished and unreliable software, along with forcing LEASES on them is ridiculous. Why the victims of this abuse want to make excuses for it is a mystery. They must like having junk forced on them AND have to pay for it.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

wkearney99 said:


> Get in on the ground floor? What're you, smoking crack? That's just insane. All this excuse-making for the HR20 is like putting lipstick on a pig. It'll still be a pig. The combined abuse of the customers forcing a junk DVR on them, with unfinished and unreliable software, along with forcing LEASES on them is ridiculous. Why the victims of this abuse want to make excuses for it is a mystery. They must like having junk forced on them AND have to pay for it.


Stop the crap, and stop it now. You are so full of ***** it's amazing. Do you actually have one? If not you have no right to say anything.

My HR20 has been just fine for going on 7 months now thank you very much. So much so I'll be buying 2 more before summers end. If a junk DVR is one that allows me to record all my locals in HD, will get dozens of new HD by years end and records everything I tell it then yes, I have junk.

Go to fricking cable already and stop attacking people who actually find out that Tivo isn't the end all be all of DVRs out there. Just look at the front page of this very forum to see all the problems people have with the HR10. But nooooooo, it can be excused because it's the almighty Tivo and can do no wrong.

I am done with this forum, period. I'm tired of trying to help people and give them an informed decision instead of needless crap from people that can't see the DVR for the Tivo. And thank you for driving a 7 year Tivo owner away. And I'm sure you'll be happy about it.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

Maybe, just maybe, some people like the HR20. I use both and have no preference.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

bdowell said:


> There's also the ability to participate in cutting edge downloads which lets you purposefully get versions of the software that normally bring new features and fixes.


How do I do that?


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Spare me the insults and bullying. I have had the HR20 and used it for several weeks. I found it unstable and nowhere near as friendly to use as the Tivo-based units. What's worse is the wife took an immediate dislike to it. 

So give us a rest from YOUR crap. Those of us WITh experience have found the house-branded DirecTV DVRs to be unsuitable replacements for their Tivo-based units. Just because we know how to tell a good product when we see it doesn't mean we have to put up with DirecTV's abuse, let alone yours.

As for locals in HD, I get those now OTA. And guess what? A great deal of the programming on them isn't even HD anyway! Sure, a 480i signal looks better than over the air NTSC. But a plain DirecTV digital signal also looks better. So for the few network shows that DO broadcast in HD they come in fine with an antenna. That and DirecTV isn't always retransmitting the HD channels at their source bitrate and resolution. You're only getting HD-lite, not the actual source HD quality. Granted, the lack of HD programming still applies, but why should you put up with DirecTV's degradation of the picture anyway? 

Just because it's more profitable for DirecTV doesn't mean you, the customer, should have to put up with junk and bad quality. Why you can't see this, or have brainwashed yourself into putting up with it, is a mystery. But hey, feel free to continue with your delusions, we certainly can talk sense into you.


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## Rcam10 (Apr 13, 2004)

I have both and wind can make my OTA go crazy sometimes. It does take rather stormy weather though, just normal wind doesn't seem to affect them. There are no tree's close by either, but the stations wouldn't be considered close, but I get strong signals. 

Its a 8 bay type Channel Master uhf with a pre-amp and rotor. Turning the antenna doesn't make it better, when its happening. But again, I only see it if there is a weather change and storms are around. Still, I was surprisied how much the wind can affect the signal. 

Anyway, the HR20 does a slightly better job in those conditions, but neither was good enough to watch. I guess it might be that the HR20 handles it better, to let it work better in certain conditions, but overall I haven't seen that where I live. 

The few times the weather makes OTA about unwatchable, its that way on both, but the HR10 is worse. 

I cannot call the HR20 junk, as it does work. I have both hooked to a DVDO VP50 with them set to record basically the same thing. The HR20 missed one recording in two months and none recently. It also froze up twice, but again not recent. The lastest CE software works well. So, while no doubt different than the TIVO, it does work, but certainly not perfect. But neither are cable dvr's. Personally I wished they hadn't change, but they did so thats the way it is. Still, I don't have a problem using it. 

Vertigo235, just go to DBStalk and find the cutting edge topic under Directv and it will tell you what you need to know, about downloading software for feedback.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Yeah, the OTA tuners in the HR10 aren't the best at handling marginal signals. But if you're getting wind problems you really should be using a better antenna mount. It's not so much the "wind" as the antenna's alignment towards the source transmitter. I've got my winegard SS-1000 mounted inside the attic, without a rotor so it's not something I worry about. You might also want to consider a signal amp up on the antenna to help with it (if you've not got one already).


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Oddly enough I find that on one station I get a better signal (more stable) by aiming it away from the tower. 

I guess I'm picking up a stronger reflection or something.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Rcam10 said:


> Vertigo235, just go to DBStalk and find the cutting edge topic under Directv and it will tell you what you need to know, about downloading software for feedback.


Thanks, I looked all arround dbstalk and didn't find anything till I read your post.


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

I've never used an HR20. I won't comment on the reliability, usability, etc. But there is one big thing that I will comment on. So far, the HR20 isn't hackable. There is no ability to extend the features that it offers. With my Tivo's, including the HR10, I've been able to enable MRV features, video extraction, and video insertion. I've turned them into full set-top media centers, enabling progressive features such as IPTV. I know that most of these things are only doable by tech savvy users, but in my world, it's a benefit.

It used to be that I would recommend people get DirecTV, so that they could enjoy the benefits of the DTivo. But now, with the HR20 as the only viable HD DVR available with D* going forward, I have no reason to recommend D* to anybody. There's a slight cost advantage to D* compared to cable when you load up on DVR's, but there is no longer a feature advantage. I've heard some good things about FiOS's home media DVR, with it's MRV capability.

The HR20 may be workable, but what sets it above any other provider's offering?


bonscott87 said:


> Stop the crap, and stop it now. You are so full of ***** it's amazing. Do you actually have one? If not you have no right to say anything.
> 
> My HR20 has been just fine for going on 7 months now thank you very much. So much so I'll be buying 2 more before summers end. If a junk DVR is one that allows me to record all my locals in HD, will get dozens of new HD by years end and records everything I tell it then yes, I have junk.
> 
> ...


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

wkearney99 said:


> Yeah, the OTA tuners in the HR10 aren't the best at handling marginal signals. But if you're getting wind problems you really should be using a better antenna mount. It's not so much the "wind" as the antenna's alignment towards the source transmitter. I've got my winegard SS-1000 mounted inside the attic, without a rotor so it's not something I worry about. You might also want to consider a signal amp up on the antenna to help with it (if you've not got one already).


Smeek!!!! It is mounted in a attic!!

He also has a multi path issue not a weak signal..... Amps do nothing for multi path.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

reh523 said:


> Smeek!!!! It is mounted in a attic!!
> 
> He also has a multi path issue not a weak signal..... Amps do nothing for multi path.


I've tried a pre-amp, with and without FM trap. I've tried an attenuator. I tried the antenna outside. Nothing seems to help. I am only 6 miles from my broadcast towers, so I think the trees combined with the Highway sound barrier, just create way too much multipath.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> How do I do that? _(participate in cutting edge)_


See DBSTalk forums, look for "Cutting Edge" area under DirecTV area


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Despite one person above being obviously less than enthused about the HR20, it's not that bad now.

I followed the complaints, and there have been many. I've also been reading back through the cutting edge area where there is one heckuva lot of feedback going on that is *very clearly going into getting changes made to the way the box works* and the box has improved by leaps and bounds because of the work that continues to be done to it.

Again, I love my DirecTV DVRs powered by TiVo. They are great boxes and have served me well. Including an HR10-250. There've been very rare hiccups with them, and one box with a dying hard drive that drove my family nuts. But development on any DirecTV boxes with TiVo software is basically dead. We'll see minor bug fixes if that, and not much else. No new HD content.

While my HR10-250 continues to serve my wife's needs and record over-the-air HD channels very well, when the wind blows the antenna a bit, the system freaks a bit and the picture breaks up. As noted above, multipath. MP that isn't there at all on the HR20.

I don't claim that the HR20 is rock solid. Its still under development, hence the CE (Cutting Edge) versions of the software that are available and pushed out for testing and comment.

I had the luxury of having 0x134 as the first version of the software on my HR20 and it was leaps and bounds better than most earlier releases (so I'm told). So my view of the box is probably more rosy than others. But NO ONE should be bashing the boxes as they do work, are supported, and are getting better.

If you don't want one, fine. If you've tried one and weren't happy, sorry. Perhaps trying again later will result in a better box for you. But bashing the boxes just because you love TiVo and don't want to give it up is short sighted and ignorant. Period.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

Everytime I think about changing my 6 year old signature, someone here reminds me why I put it there to begin with.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

I find the HR20 as being _way_ less then dependable, and wouldn't recommend it to anyone without having a backup unit (unless you don't care about missing some scheduled recordings). As several have mentioned it's gotten better, but it still isn't consistant and requires quite a bit of babysitting.

Hopefully D* will continue trying to get the thing right and not drop the ball like they did on their SD version, the R15.

That said, I too have multipath problems with my OTA on windy days ...but only with my local CBS affiliate (a different direction from ABC/NBC/FOX). I have the antenna in the attic as well ...a ChannelMaster 4228 ...and this happens oddly enough, on days where the wind is primarily from the south! Must need to blow the trees/branches in a certain direction to cause the interference.

The only solution to this problem other than trying to find another attic location (preferably the other end of the attic) would be to mount the antenna outside as others have already mentioned.


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## jake34 (Feb 22, 2003)

I have both the HR10=250 and the HR20 and actually find the HR20 to be just as reliable. I may even argue that the HR20 is reboot free which is not the case with my HR10.
The only drawback for me with the HR20 is no wishlist capability which I miss on it. I don't see too many comments from others on missing wishlists but I do miss it. Other than that the HR20 is just fine by me.
I will not replace the HR10 till new satellites go up and at that point I will have no problem living with HR20's only.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

It's not about bashing the box because of any "love" for the tivo. It's about calling the people playing along with DirecTV's abuse of them, idiots. DirecTV is pushing beta test products on paying customers. Fools by any other name. 

So please, spare me the spin about it being some love for the Tivo. I do prefer how the Tivo handles things, RELIABLY and SENSIBLY. The HR20 fails on both counts. It's nowhere near reliable (but getting less UNRELIABLE) and the menu layouts and features (or lack thereof) just pale in comparison to the Tivo. 

So defending a crappy product because you've been dumb enough to be tricked into beta testing it, on your own dime, is perhaps quite a bit more short-sighted and ignorant.


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## texasbrit (Mar 17, 2004)

I've seen a couple of references to the CM4228 as a way to help with the multipath issue. The CM4228 is actually not all that good at solving multipath issues - yes it's better in general to have a more directional antenna, but if you have multipath problems you would be better off going for an Antennas Direct 43XG (if you don't need a powerful antenna) or the 91XG (if you are in a fringe area). The 91XG and the CM4228 are comparable on UHF reception, but the narrower beamwidth of the 91XG makes it better at taming multipath. Remember that the effect of wind on trees does not necessarily create multipath, it may just reduce signal strength.
The CM4228 has the advantage of decent pickup on VHF-hi so if you have a couple of VHF-hi digital stations (channels 7-13) that have reasonable signals (maybe up to "red" on antennaweb) the CM4228 is a good choice.

Although the HR20 OTA tuners are only average by the standards of some of the ATSC tuners built into TV sets, they are better than the HR10-250. But if you are in a good reception area, and OTA is the source of most of your viewing, the HR10 is a great receiver. It's a pity that all new DirecTV HD will be from the new satellite slots 99 and 103, and that even the limited amount of HD on the old satellites will inevitably move to 99/103 when the new satellites are launched, but it will be good to see more HD and hopefully to take advantage of the extra bandwidth the new sats will bring.

I've been a TiVo owner for a long time, and I've gone though some real issues in the past, but I think it's a great product. It's a pity DirecTV decided to go with a different approach for their new DVR, but none of us know what was involved on the commercial side of this decision. Yes, I would have preferred it had DirecTV gone with TiVo, but it didn't happen.
I have an HR20 as well, and I am one of the people who have had no serious problems with the box, certainly since early November. Not one lost recording, lockup, need to reset - nothing. The software is immature, and so I see the same UI issues everyone else reports. But the box does what I ask it to do. And IMHO some of the UI is better than the TiVo.
There are also a lot of problems that are attributed to the HR20 that are actually MPEG-4 decoder issues in the link from the local station to the satellites, or are a result of very poor installation by DirecTV's contracted installers. The 5-lnb dish is more difficult to install, and many installers just don't bother to do it correctly. Many installations end up with the wrong number of cables, or the wrong multiswitch. 

Would I recommend DirecTV? I'd look at all the options. Dish - I would not do business with them unless they were the only choice. Have had serious reliabilty issues with their equipment in the past, and I don't like some of their business practices. Cable? Where I live, the PQ on most SD cable channels is worse than DirecTV. HD seems more consistent than DirecTV, at their best they are about the same. The DVRs are not very good - I know, a TiVo S3 would work, but not for me at that price. My neighbor has FIOS - probably it's the only alternative I would seriously consider. SD quality varies a lot, HD is excellent. The DVR has its issues, not very well thought out, but it will get there in the end. Customer service is terrible - too many different departments in Verizon, that don't talk to each other (or are not allowed to, because of the telco regulations).

So for now it's continue to use my TiVos, and also the HR20. Maybe get another HR20 when new HD channels start becoming available, later this year. 

And after all, it's only TV....


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Excellent summary. It's only the excellent SD channel quality that keeps us from ditching DirecTV in favor of comcast or fios. But as you point out the costs of an S3 with cablecards doesn't work. Not that I'd mind paying for the box, more that there's a lingering rumor of a bundled Tivo-based unit from comcast. It'd suck to buy the S3 (and get the tivo sub) to then have the providers offer a bundled deal. 

It's definitely an odd time in the industry right now. The lurching by providers to house-branded units (that suck) and Tivo back-stepping from MRV (due to CableLabs) makes it worth sticking with the DirecTivo solutions, for now. But comcast or verizon coming out with a bundle on an S3 unit would *definitely* make us switch from DirecTV. But by then DirecTV could actually make the HR20 stop being unreliable and difficult to use. And monkeys could fly outta.. well, it's a toss-up which will come first!

And it is indeed, just TV and I want it to 'just work' without hassles so we'll stick with the HR10-250 solution for now.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I am done with this forum, period. I'm tired of trying to help people and give them an informed decision instead of needless crap from people that can't see the DVR for the Tivo. And thank you for driving a 7 year Tivo owner away. And I'm sure you'll be happy about it.


A 7 year Tivo owner and your pushing the HR-20. Enjoy getting in on the ground floor and all. I still like my decision to wait DirecTV out with a H-20 and a SA Tivo with downloads from Amazon and TivoCAST. The whole HD DVR picture will offer more solutions next year. DirecTV will be ok.

Say Hi to Earl for us! < waving good-bye!>

Bonanza


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

wkearney99 said:


> It's not about bashing the box because of any "love" for the tivo. It's about calling the people playing along with DirecTV's abuse of them, idiots. DirecTV is pushing beta test products on paying customers. Fools by any other name.


Apparently you don't remember the early Tivo's.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

HiDefGator said:


> Apparently you don't remember the early Tivo's.


So we are re-visiting the early days...why? DirecTV had a quality product in DTivo and decided not to renew the Tivo relationship and bring in-house the DVR solution.

Greed is an awful thing. DirecTV no longer cares about it's customer.

Bonanza


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Bonanzaair said:


> So we are re-visiting the early days...why? DirecTV had a quality product in DTivo and decided not to renew the Tivo relationship and bring in-house the DVR solution.
> 
> Greed is an awful thing. DirecTV no longer cares about it's customer.
> 
> Bonanza


Greed is what makes America the most powerful industrial nation out there. It is not an awful thing.

You have no basis to conclude that DirecTV no longer cares about it's customer. If all it took to get this distinction was dropping a vendor and bringing the work in house then every company out there would qualify.

DirecTV had a responsibility to its customers to move the DVR to a more stable environment then in the hands of a company that has yet to turn a profit after years of being in business. And away from a company that wanted to control the direction and functionality of the DVR it made for DirecTV. I doubt anyone will look back in 5 years and say oh boy DTV sure screwed up big time by dropping Tivo.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> Excellent summary. It's only the excellent SD channel quality that keeps us from ditching DirecTV in favor of comcast or fios.


The SD picture quality I get with DirecTV is pure crap. It's deteriorated significantly over the past 5 years or so and looks like bad VHS on my 60" HDTV. I just switched to FIOS and the PQ is night and day, more like DVD quality. For the first time in years I've actually been able to enjoy watching SD programming. The dish is aligned just fine and I get most channels in the 80's and 90's as far as signal strength is concerned. SD channels on DTV have gotten soft and grainy over time due to increased compression to make room for more useless shopping networks and the like.

It sounds like with all the problems the OP is having with his CM4221 installed in the attic he may want to consider mounting the antenna on the roof on a mast. The roof and house structure are undoubtedly attenuating the signal and getting the antenna a bit higher and out in the open may alleviate some of the problems he's having.

I've got dual CM 4228's on my roof aimed in opposite directions as I'm in between Baltimore and DC. Since they are highly directional and 180 degrees out from each other there is little chance for MP interference. The outputs of the two antennas are combined into a single cable using a standard VHF/UHF cable splitter/combiner. My house is on the downside of a sloped road leading to a cul de sac and there are lots of tall trees all around the area that are much higher than my house. I have absolutely no problems with MP interference except for some occasional minor pixelisation, which is to be expected with any digital broadcast source. I'm about 35-40 miles from the broadcast towers for both cities and I receive about 14 HD channels nice and clear.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> I doubt anyone will look back in 5 years and say oh boy DTV sure screwed up big time by dropping Tivo.


You are absolutely right. The continuing blunders that DirecTV is making are so huge in scope that in the history of that defunct company Tivo will be only one among many causes.


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## primetime73 (Oct 11, 2005)

Redux said:


> You are absolutely right. The continuing blunders that DirecTV is making are so huge in scope that in the history of that defunct company Tivo will be only one among many causes.


check out the article on The Street.com about the future of Tivo titled, "Tivos Future Gives Pause." Depending on your settings you can see a link to the article on Yahoo if you check Tivo's stock price and look at March 16th headlines.

Mentions the increased churn, lower subscriber growth and emergence of competitors. Tivo only has 1.7 million subs some of whom are diehards as evidenced by some on this site but the relevance of Tivo is shrinking.

I love these threads that dumping Tivo will put D* out of business.

I also appreciate that some people have had problems with the HR20 but despite what the Tivo fanatics will have you believe the product has gotten better and Tivo is not without problems. My HR20 has been running since early January with zero, count them zero reboots or missed recordings. Actually, I take that back I had 4 empty recordings because my wife moved the antenna while dusting so I lost my OTA signal and wasn't aware until I checked the recordings the next day. So my own user error created the empty recordings, the HR20 tried but no signal was available. I wonder how many others have had empty recordings because of signal issues but chalked it up to the HR20 having problems.

The HR10 reboots every other week and has missed recording because of the guide issue and because of a reboot in the middle of recording. Not to mention the whole debacle of the audio problems with 6.x

I like my HR10 it is a nice product but it will soon be obsolete and the HR20 is working just fine for me and numerous other people. And before the fanatics attack, yes I know there are people with problems I admit that but will you admit Tivo has problems as well for many people despite being on the market for a much longer time? If not you must have a lot of posting on this forum on ignore.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Different types of problems.

My HR20 misses recording SL's (season pases) quite a bit. My HR10's/HDVR2's do not. Both have bugs, but to me this is a dealbreaker.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Sir_winealot said:


> Different types of problems.
> 
> My HR20 misses recording SL's (season pases) quite a bit. My HR10's/HDVR2's do not. Both have bugs, but to me this is a dealbreaker.


Could you provide examples? I'm about to switch to the HR20's and I'd hate to start missing shows.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Sir_winealot said:


> Different types of problems.
> 
> My HR20 misses recording SL's (season pases) quite a bit. My HR10's/HDVR2's do not. Both have bugs, but to me this is a dealbreaker.


I haven't had a missed recording in over a month on my HR20 in the meantime I have had quite a few strange problems with my R10. I think the software has been improved greatly over the past few weeks on the HR20 and problems, like missed recordings which happened to me about a dozen times since getting HR20 in October, haven't been happening as much.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> Could you provide examples? I'm about to switch to the HR20's and I'd hate to start missing shows.


Although it has gotten much better, I still get recordings that show in the playlist as being there ..._until_ you go to watch them, and then it asks if you want to delete without showing what was recorded.

I've even watched some of the program _while_ it was recording ...yet cannot when trying later.

This was commonplace more frequently in the first several months of use. Now it happens about twice a week (out of about 20 recorded programs).

If this was our only DVR I'd be upset; but because we have several backup it doesn't bother me too much although, it's still not acceptable. Hopefully they'll have all the bugs out of these things soon ...and although there's still absolutely no indication they'll ever implement dual buffers (which sucks), I'd be content with the unit (we've gone through 3 of the things) if it ever becomes a reality.

Wife and kids really dislike the thing and pretty much refuse to use it, but within the next year or so they won't have a choice, lol.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

Antenna pointing is an Art, not a Science.

What I mean is that there are so many factors, that its hard to say 'If you do a b and c, you will get good results".

I live 20 miles from my towers. And the wind gets me (esp when its warm out and there are leaves)

..

If you have the money, then upgrade and pay for it.

Personally, the OTA being free is very nice.

But don't give up too early.

I would by a rotator, and buy or even build an antenna.

http://fullcontactgeek.com/news.php?item.171.3

But it all depends on where you live, and how many trees valleys hills you got .

Just google "build your own" hdtv antenna.

You'll find alot of stuff.

Check out this guy also:
http://myworld.ebay.com/scientificsupply/


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