# Amazon pulls the HD plug on all TIVO Customers



## rlcarter96 (Mar 22, 2015)

Several weeks prior to April 15, 2015 Amazon announced they would no longer provide download capability for video content on older TIVO models. The only models they would continue to support with download capability were the Roamio and Premiere Series 4 units, I own a Premiere Series 4.

Over the last 6 years I have purchased 48 titles from Amazon, most of them TV shows which have 20 plus episodes in each season. With all the content plus hardware I have purchased from Amazon, I can quickly add up a reasonable total that is close to $5,000.

This week I went to my library to download season 1 of Breaking Bad and the download link was missing, I checked all of my content and the link was missing on everything. A call to Amazon support and the rep. tells me its a technical problem with my TIVO unit. I asked him how he could know that without running any tests on my unit and by the way, the unit is not reporting any errors and if it was, how could an error on my TIVO cause a web page on Amazon to fail on displaying the download link? He inistists that it is a technical problem and that I should contact TIVO support.

So I call TIVO and get this answer. Amazon contacted TIVO and asked them to dumb down all TIVO units to prevent users from downloading any content. TIVO refused, so instead of working out thier differences with TIVO, Amazon cuts off downloading to all TIVO customers even if they have Amazon approved TIVO hardware, and it doesn't stop there.

When I loaded the Amazon app. on my TIVO to stream, I suddenly had fuzzy video, so bad you couldn't see someones face and the unit pauses every 10 seconds to fill the buffer. So I hooked up a packet analyzer and started monitoring the data stream from Amazon's data center to my static IP. What do I find, Amazon is throttling the bandwidth down to below 600Kbps, 535Kbps (Kilobytes) to be precise. That's 600% slower than what I was getting two weeks ago. I have a business class internet connection and I can confirm I have 30Mbps (Megabytes) download speed everywhere except to Amazon's data center, I can hit thier website with that 30Mbps but not the data center.

So I borrowed my daughter Sony DVD player because it can connect to Amazon, and I did a test using that device. Once connected I could download any video from my library at 17-26Mbps, the image is pristine and the audio is Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound. So I pause, switch over to the TIVO and restart the stream on the same video, and it comes downs at 540Kbps.

So without so much as an email, a letter or any kind of notice with an option to prepare for this, Amazon targets TIVO customers and cuts thier services. At 500Kbps it makes no sense to stream, I'll fall asleep during the pauses waiting, and some videos have no audio at all.

What's the sense in paying for an Amazon Prime membership, buying content at $16 - $60 a title, that's either a movie or an entire season of a TV show, if you can't watch it on Amazon approved TIVO hardware?

As far as I am concerned, I've paid in advance for a service they are still selling but not delivering on, some how that feels like a breach of contract. And if every TIVO owner is experiencing what I am, then I'll sit back and wait for the class action law suit. 

If you subscribe to Amazon Prime or purchase content from them to either download or stream, let me know if you're having the same experience. If Amazon has targeted all TIVO customers, then they have bit the tail of a rattlesnake as most TIVO owners are pretty hardcore when comes to getting what they paid for.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

I just checked Amazon streaming on my Roamio and have none of the problems you describe.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Amazon has quit using their antiquated download video service and will continue to use Amazon Prime Streaming Video.

I assume you are not an Amazon Prime member, which the download video service has ended.
The speed issues you may be experiencing could be on your router or modem and suggest you try power cycling them.

I can watch from Amazon Prime Streaming and have access to all my purchased videos, TV series, etc. on the Roamio 4 tuner model. Roamio still has Youtube, Netflix, Hulu+ and now Yahoo Screen.

Amazon instant video service has ended for my Series 3 as well as YouTube. What's left is just Netflix Instant Watch list. Series 3 hardware is getting antiquated for the current streaming services.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

rlcarter96 said:


> Several weeks prior to April 15, 2015 Amazon announced they would no longer provide download capability for video content on older TIVO models. The only models they would continue to support with download capability were the Roamio and Premiere Series 4 units, I own a Premiere Series 4.
> 
> Over the last 6 years I have purchased 48 titles from Amazon, most of them TV shows which have 20 plus episodes in each season. With all the content plus hardware I have purchased from Amazon, I can quickly add up a reasonable total that is close to $5,000.
> 
> ...


Like ThAbtO posted Amazon has quit the download option and now only offers streaming on Premiere and newer Tivo's closed captioning was not available via download that was another reason not sure if it was a true reason it said it was an FCC rule


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I'm also disappointed with the decision from Amazon to prevent the download service on my Premiere. Amazon is the only video streaming service that refused to let the customer know the video resolution on the HD movies/shows that you purchase. They will only say that it's HD but not whether it's 720p or 1080p. I would download my Amazon content to be able to see "1080P" on the TiVo information screen. I have now purchased a Fire TV Stick to get this information but a lot of the time, I still only get 720p from Amazon whereas I get 1080p from Vudu, Apple, etc. I will not be purchasing many movies from Amazon now that they removed the download choice we TiVo users used to have.


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## rlcarter96 (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks for everyone's input and feedback. I am testing or confirming each suggestion to find something that works in the hopes I can narrow down the cause, if others with identical or similar hardware will reply to this post, I would greatly appreciate your feedback.

My real concern is over the fact that I can't receive a stream from Amazon any faster than 600Kbps. So I'm trying to emphasize in this post that specific issue. In reply to a previous answer, yes, I have Amazon Prime, so when attempting to stream, content from Prime it is clearly labeled as such.

As others suggested, I performed a complete power down of my entire network and all connected devices. I verified IP addresses, default Gateway and DNS server IP addresses which come from Cox. I then repeated the tests from the 1st post. I also went back to the TIVO unit and ran the configuration wizard to test supported video formats, doing so added content for 480i and 480p, which now allows SD content to display in its original format, all-be-it with black side bars on the left and right. Despite those changes, the results are the same, even content in SD format is blotchy and pauses every 10 seconds to refill the buffer.

I have confirmed Amazon's support of TIVO hardware as listed on the page, "Amazon Instant Video Compatible Devices" my hardware is the TIVO TCD746320 Premiere DVR (Series 4):

Amazon's policy states that HD content may not be available on all of these devices, but SD content such as, Stargate SG1 seasons 1-8, with an SD resolution of 720x480 still streams below 600Kbps and pauses every 10 seconds to refill the bugger. The video quality is spotty but I do get audio.

My TIVO connects through a simple network switch to a CISCO router connected to a Cox cable modem. The router is still using the same configuration settings it had when I set it up 3 years ago.

And as I stated in the previous post, I repeated my tests with a borrowed Sony DVD player, to test my connection to Amazon and stream content from my library. I had no problems with the Sony DVD player, perfect HD video and Dolby Digital audio which means my network, switch, router and modem are all working correctly with Amazon, only the TIVO unit is affected.

Next I had a Cox Communication tech. come out and test the cable card in the TIVO unit, even though that has nothing to do with streaming, the network interface and all connections to the TIVO unit had no problems, the unit is capable of receiving the full 30Mbps bandwidth allocated by my ISP.

I hope by keeping this post active with updates, I can hear from others who use the same or similar hardware, TIVO TCD746320 Premiere DVR (Series 4), or the Roamio hardware. If the problem can be solved by upgrading to a Roamio device, then I have no problems doing so, but I want to hear from others who use these devices before throwing money at a solution that could be caused by some other piece of this puzzle. If you use the same TIVO hardware I do or a Roamio, please reply with the experience your getting from Amazon.

Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions, I look forward to more replies.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm afraid my Series 4 basic unit is connected to a TV so I don't have much in the way of tools. I just ran the trailer for the Instant Video of Hunger Games. It started looking really bad, then after 10 seconds it cleared up. The HD indicator was bright, and I believe that gets me to 1080. The Premiere is wired and I can copy programs from it to my Roamio at 80 to 90Mbps. Both are basic units so 100Mbps is max. My internet is only 14Mbps right now, well above what is needed for HD streaming. I'm at a loss when I see your numbers. I also used to download web video and miss that ability. Sorry. Perhaps TiVo will repurpose the diagnostic for video download speed to video streaming speed.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

I just checked Amazon streaming on both a Roamio and one of my Premieres, and they both worked fine. In both cases, i just picked a random Prime movie offering....they spooled up quickly, and had good HD video quality. The Roamio was noticeably faster navigating the menus, and didn't seem to require that few seconds of "calibration" that the Premiere did, but once playing the movie, they both performed flawlessly.

I know it's a bit of a pain, but I would suggest you try connecting your TiVo directly to your cable modem, bypassing your router completely. If your modem and router are side-by-side, it shouldn't be too cumbersome. You'll just need to restart your modem a couple times. Routers can do weird stuff that's hard to diagnose....it's not out of the question that it's selectively affecting some of your TiVo's connections. If you get normal behavior with the router out of the loop, you've identified the culprit. If not, you'll have eliminated your networking equipment as a variable. Either way, good info to have.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

rlcarter96 said:


> My TIVO connects through a simple network switch to a CISCO router connected to a Cox cable modem. The router is still using the same configuration settings it had when I set it up 3 years ago.


Try bypassing the switch to see if that is the cause.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

rlcarter96 said:


> Thanks for everyone's input and feedback. I am testing or confirming each suggestion to find something that works in the hopes I can narrow down the cause, if others with identical or similar hardware will reply to this post, I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
> 
> My real concern is over the fact that I can't receive a stream from Amazon any faster than 600Kbps. So I'm trying to emphasize in this post that specific issue. In reply to a previous answer, yes, I have Amazon Prime, so when attempting to stream, content from Prime it is clearly labeled as such.
> 
> ...


what model router and switch what happens if you use a longer cable and bypass the switch?


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

As I just suggested....

Personally, I have a _very _strong suspicion that the router is in fact the cause.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> As I just suggested....
> 
> Personally, I have a _very _strong suspicion that the router is in fact the cause.


If it was the router or modem, the other connected devices would have the issue, but only the Tivo was.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> If it was the router or modem, the other connected devices would have the issue, but only the Tivo was.


No, that's not necessarily true. As I said before, there can be router settings that only impact certain connections and/or devices. Everything else on the TiVo might even work just fine....service connections, Netflix, etc...yet this one particular connection is inexplicably problematic. It can be _really _difficult to figure out just what setting is affecting what, which is why this sort of router issue can be so hard to diagnose.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

b-ball-fanatic said:


> No, that's not necessarily true. As I said before, there can be router settings that only impact certain connections and/or devices. Everything else on the TiVo might even work just fine....service connections, Netflix, etc...yet this one particular connection is inexplicably problematic. It can be _really _difficult to figure out just what setting is affecting what, which is why this sort of router issue can be so hard to diagnose.


I agree. Sometimes a router can get too smart and decide the priorities based on what some engineer feels is best. I gained 30% by disabling the router's QoS. It may be a unique case, but I never received help from the router's support people.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> I agree. Sometimes a router can get too smart and decide the priorities based on what some engineer feels is best. I gained 30% by disabling the router's QoS. It may be a unique case, but I never received help from the router's support people.


Yeah, if the OP's problem turns out to be his router (and of course, it's still possible that his TiVo itself is screwy....can't know without testing the router first)....the first place I'd look is QoS. That seems to cause more problems than it's meant to resolve. After that, I'd look to any kind of router-based anti-virus or filtering service, the firewall, and the port settings.


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## rlcarter96 (Mar 22, 2015)

Excellent suggestions on bypassing the router and going direct to the Cox modem. Something I didn't mention previously may in fact be part of the problem here. My ISP is a business class service with static IP. I have a site to site, some call it a (router to router) VPN connection, with a branch office in Tennessee. For reasons not yet known, the TIVO could be going through the VPN up to Tennessee before it goes out to the internet and when the stream from Amazon starts, it returns first to the Tennessee office at its normal HD speed, but the branch office caps uplink speeds at 500-600kbps, meaning the stream to my router is capped at the same rate. 

I will do some trace routes to see if this is the case. Since most uplink speeds are considerably less than downlink speeds, a connection taking a route through the Tennessee office would explain why the bandwidth is capped.

Great feedback, thanks to everyone, I will post once I have tested for these conditions.


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## rlcarter96 (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks to all for the many suggestions. By connecting my TIVO directly to my cable modem and using the public IP assigned by my ISP, I was able to confirm that streaming HD content from Amazon is not capped at 600Kbps and was in fact coming down at 15-17Mbps, so the problem was somewhere in the router.

Reconnecting the router I performed trace routes and confirmed that packets were not going through the VPN to the branch office in Tennesse. Although the router has the ability to set minimum and maximum bandwidth for up and down streams, they were not being capped in this general manner either. By trial and error I was able to resolve the problem by setting up some Quality Of Service settings that give a larger percentage (60%) of the available band width to streaming media. Once those instructions were in place, the stream from Amazon returned to what it was before. Packets streaming down are coming in at 15-17Mbps as opposed to the previous 600Kbps, and I am back to getting pristine video at 1920x1080 or 1280x720 with Dolby Digital audio.

Why this becane a problem only after Amazon changed thier policy for TIVO customers will have to remain a mystery. But, without the generous support and suggestions from the members here, this could have been a problem I spent weeks trying to solve rather than just a weekend. Again, many thanks to all who contributed.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

That's great....really glad you got it resolved.


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

I am sorry you have had these problems and I am glad you have found a satisfactory solution. For me, however, this is another cautionary tale against "purchasing" digital media. I will hold out for as long as possible.


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

Circling back to this discussion, does *anyone* have the ability to download TiVo files from Amazon now? I don't mean stream. I mean download.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

You can't download TiVo files from Amazon. There aren't any download service from Amazon anymore for videos.

Only TiVo creates TiVo files, generally from recordings.


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## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

lujan said:


> I'm also disappointed with the decision from Amazon to prevent the download service on my Premiere. Amazon is the only video streaming service that refused to let the customer know the video resolution on the HD movies/shows that you purchase. They will only say that it's HD but not whether it's 720p or 1080p. I would download my Amazon content to be able to see "1080P" on the TiVo information screen. I have now purchased a Fire TV Stick to get this information but a lot of the time, I still only get 720p from Amazon whereas I get 1080p from Vudu, Apple, etc. I will not be purchasing many movies from Amazon now that they removed the download choice we TiVo users used to have.


Its in the format available. Unlike vudu if its available in 1080 that is what you get. So if you buy it and it just says HD its only available in 720.


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> You can't download TiVo files from Amazon. There aren't any download service from Amazon anymore for videos.
> 
> Only TiVo creates TiVo files, generally from recordings.


This was kind of a strange reply. I'm not sure if there's confusion here or if this is an exercise in semantics.

Until recently, I could trigger downloads for my Amazon-owned tv shows and movies to my TiVo. That's no longer the case. Are you confirming that this option is gone now?

I ask because Amazon customer service tells me it still exists, but I can't find it.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mumpower said:


> This was kind of a strange reply. I'm not sure if there's confusion here or if this is an exercise in semantics.
> 
> Until recently, I could trigger downloads for my Amazon-owned tv shows and movies to my TiVo. That's no longer the case. Are you confirming that this option is gone now?
> 
> *I ask because Amazon customer service tells me it still exists, but I can't find it.*


You can't find it because it no longer exists.. it's that simple, the Amazon CSR you talked to was not up to date with their information.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

joewom said:


> Its in the format available. Unlike vudu if its available in 1080 that is what you get. So if you buy it and it just says HD its only available in 720.


That's not true as there are plenty of movies that say "HD" from Amazon that stream in 1080p. My point was that you never know for sure with Amazon and with others (Vudu, iTunes, etc.) you always know in advance that it's 1080p before making a purchase.


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