# Banner Ads



## c1b1 (Jun 20, 2009)

I have a banner ad appearing every time I hit the pause button. Called tivo, they explained that they have downloaded an advertising program into my HD unit to allow the ads to appear. They cannot be removed unless I opt out of all broadband programing, such as netflix movie streaming or music etc. I asked why they did not notify users or ask permission to download a program into equipment that I purchased from them in good faith. Explained that that it was a money maker and told me to just not pause live television. Huh?! I discovered that as long as I hit the clear button after I pause the ad disappears along with the green bar. Thinking of getting rid of the unit. Don't have the same issue with my older Series 3 HD.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

This was added in the 11.0c update, large discussion about it here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424024

If your S3 doesn't show it, it might not have 11.0c yet, but eventually it will.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Just press the down arrow and ignore them.


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## johnny99 (Nov 10, 2008)

Class action lawsuit!!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Do you mean that you're getting an actual banner ad every time you hit pause or are you actually getting the "More about This Program" menu which sometimes includes a menu selection for an ad?

If you read your terms of service TiVo has the right to make updates the service whenever they like. I'm guessing that you weren't offended by this when they added NetFlix.

A lot of folks are not happy about these pause ads. If enough of them cancel maybe TiVo will get the hint that they're pushing what people will tolerate.


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## kingkong316 (Jul 13, 2008)

Really people here are a little crazy. When you pause TV are you actually looking at it? It simply creates revenue for Tivo. Subscriptions are down 23% 1Q 2009 compared to 1Q 2008. And even with the ads revenues they are still in the hole financially compared to the same time last year.

So Tivo is basically trying to keep afloat. So can you blame them for trying to stay viable.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If you really find this intrusive, you can eliminate it with a universal remote and a pause-clear macro. See the _Using TiVo_ section in my signature for more information.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Also, note that *you agreed to this* when you accepted the terms and condition for your TiVo subscription. No one pulled a fast one on you.


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## timatraw (Jan 25, 2003)

I agree with you 100&#37; c1b1. I would find the ads annoying as well even though I may have "agreed" to it unknowingly or not.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

c1b1 said:


> Don't have the same issue with my older Series 3 HD.


*....yet*
Eventually all of the HD units will get 11.0c

Some folks have a huge issue with this, some don't, to each their own.
I personally don't care and barely notice them since I pause because I'm not watching and need to do something else.

Diane


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Well, once again, it's time for ---


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I also find annoying posters who ignore the threads that show up when they type in their new thread subject line

Mac Banner Ads stiffi Happy Hour - General Chit-Chat 15 03-26-2008 10:30 PM
TiVo Fast Forward Banner Ads Return Adam1115 TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion 78 01-20-2007 09:21 PM

so you had to rant, so why does that require a new thread on an old subject


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## c1b1 (Jun 20, 2009)

First, let me say that I am new to the Tivo Community website and did not know that a thread addressing this subject was already posted, so apologies. The ad pops up every time I pause my tv but I am not looking at Mc'D ads so I guess it could be worse... 
But, this pop up does not occur in the content of my tivo programing such as when I access a menu function but every time I hit the pause a tivo generated ad is visible. The ad is the length of the Green bar but twice as wide and is usually red and is directly above the green bar. This is a sort of subliminal advertising because I see the ad in the time it takes to hit my clear button to eliminate the ad. It is additional advertising added to my tivo unit after purchase. While I agreed to allow tivo to upgrade I don't think it was made clear that I would be allowing ads to appear during the course of regular television viewing. I have three tivo units currently in my home and I have been a user for ten years or more and think this new policy by tivo of put up and shut up, we will stream whatever we like into your tivo is well, wrong.
Does anyone know if the direct tv dvr's do the same?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

c1b1 said:


> First, let me say that I am new to the Tivo Community website and did not know that a thread addressing this subject was already posted, so apologies. The ad pops up every time I pause my tv but I am not looking at Mc'D ads so I guess it could be worse...
> But, this pop up does not occur in the content of my tivo programing such as when I access a menu function but every time I hit the pause a tivo generated ad is visible. The ad is the length of the Green bar but twice as wide and is usually red and is directly above the green bar. This is a sort of subliminal advertising because I see the ad in the time it takes to hit my clear button to eliminate the ad. It is additional advertising added to my tivo unit after purchase. While I agreed to allow tivo to upgrade I don't think it was made clear that I would be allowing ads to appear during the course of regular television viewing. I have three tivo units currently in my home and I have been a user for ten years or more and think this new policy by tivo of put up and shut up, we will stream whatever we like into your tivo is well, wrong.
> Does anyone know if the direct tv dvr's do the same?


Source: Tivo Service Agreement



> 3.2 Graphical Elements. *From time to time, your TiVo DVR may cause graphics and/or text to be superimposed over commercial advertisements or present you with other advertising viewing options.* For example, graphic "tags" may permit you to press the Thumbs Up button to (i) schedule a recording of an advertised program; (ii) view special video clips or other information about the advertised product or service; and/or (iii) perform some other action. Any such tags are placed on top of the commercial advertisements by TiVo or its licensees on behalf of the advertiser and not at the direction of any other party.





> 6. Changes to Your TiVo Service. TiVo may at its discretion and from time to time change, add, or remove features and functionality of the TiVo service or the TiVo DVR without notice. *If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the TiVo service, you may cancel your use of the TiVo service as provided in Section 15 ("Termination of Service").* TiVo reserves the right to discontinue one, some, or all of the features of the TiVo service you receive at any time at its discretion. TiVo may at its discretion discontinue the provision of software updates to certain TiVo DVRs. This means that while other TiVo DVRs may receive continued software updates and functionality; TiVo is not required to provide such updates to your TiVo DVR. Additionally, the level of service TiVo provides may not be the same on each TiVo DVR; a given TiVo DVR may support different features and functionality, and TiVo is under no obligation to provide all features and functionality to your TiVo DVR.


 (bold added by me).

I am in no way encouraging you to cancel your service due to an extra line or two of text when using one of Tivo's many features.


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## c1b1 (Jun 20, 2009)

3.2 Graphical Elements. From time to time, your TiVo DVR may cause graphics and/or text to be superimposed over commercial advertisements or present you with other advertising viewing options. For example, graphic "tags" may permit you to press the Thumbs Up button to (i) schedule a recording of an advertised program; (ii) view special video clips or other information about the advertised product or service; and/or (iii) perform some other action. Any such tags are placed on top of the commercial advertisements by TiVo or its licensees on behalf of the advertiser and not at the direction of any other party.

Just to be clear, these graphics are not a part of the green thumbs up button or any other advertising opportunity in the menu function but occurs on my television screen every time I hit the pause button.The ads are visible on my tv picture and NOT contsained in an individual advertisement. It has just started occurring in the last week or so.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

c1b1 said:


> Just to be clear, these graphics are not a part of the green thumbs up button or any other advertising opportunity in the menu function but occurs on my television screen every time I hit the pause button.The ads are visible on my tv picture and NOT contsained in an individual advertisement. It has just started occurring in the last week or so.


We understand.. they pop up when you pause, *we get it,* and the other threads even show screenshots.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7188650#post7188650

But the long and short of it is that there's nothing you can do to change this behavior other then mentioned already in this thread, there's no "opt-out" for the feature.

Diane


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

c1b1 said:


> currently in my home and I have been a user for ten years or more and think this new policy by tivo of put up and shut up, we will stream whatever we like into your tivo is well, wrong.
> Does anyone know if the direct tv dvr's do the same?


As noted above, there is an easy way to eliminate the popups with a universal remote. If this bothers you that much, buy a universal remote for $50 and eliminate it.

DirecTV's DVRs do not have ads on pause, but they have more ads in other places.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

c1b1 said:


> First, let me say that I am new to the Tivo Community website and did not know that a thread addressing this subject was already posted, so apologies.


when you start a new thread and type in a subject line - the forum software pops up threads that already exist that match the subject line you are typing - you seem to have ignored that which I find ironic since you claim to have trouble ignoring the pause ads.

Do you really think it is a good intro for you to this forum or that we think you have a good point about your subject when all you do is start a new thread to drudge up what other posters see as old arguments?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ....
> 
> Do you really think it is a good intro for you to this forum or that we think you have a good point about your subject when all you do is start a new thread to drudge up what other posters see as old arguments?


There are new readers every day who have not gone back and read the old posts with the old arguments. Obviously this is still an issue, old arguments or not. Personally I hope it continues to be 'drudged up'!


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

RoyK said:


> There are new readers every day who have not gone back and read the old posts with the old arguments. Obviously this is still an issue, old arguments or not. Personally I hope it continues to be 'drudged up'!


Why? What is new to be said that hasn't been said in the other threads?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> Why? What is new that hasn't been said in the other threads?


Why? To continue to inform prospective buyers/subscribers who find this forum in their research that the TiVo interface is polluted with advertising sold by the company that they are thinking about paying money to -- *before* they buy the product and sign up for the service.

Of course many here would rather suppress that fact out of selfish fear that sales will be lost and TiVo will go out of business or the subscription rate will increase......


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

It's kind of ironic that one of the main features of TIVO is the ability to skip through commercials, and yet they subject you to ads.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> Why? What is new to be said that hasn't been said in the other threads?


And beyond that: Is there really so little of import that it is useful to engage in pointless rehashing?


shwru980r said:


> It's kind of ironic that one of the main features of TIVO is the ability to skip through commercials, and yet they subject you to ads.


The main advantage of a TiVo, I feel, is the ability to record television so you can watch it later, whenever you wish.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

RoyK said:


> Why? To continue to inform prospective buyers/subscribers who find this forum in their research that the TiVo interface is polluted with advertising sold by the company that they are thinking about paying money to -- *before* they buy the product and sign up for the service.


Along with that, maybe the Tivo people who read this forum will see the continual 'hate' for this "feature" and remove it. (Wishful thinking, I know)



bicker said:


> The main advantage of a TiVo, I feel, is the ability to record television so you can watch it later, whenever you wish.


Yep, the main reason I bought my Tivos. Doesn't mean I have to like the ads, though.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

steve614 said:


> (Wishful thinking, I know)


No, even less likely than that.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

c1b1 said:


> The ad is the length of the Green bar but twice as wide and is usually red and is directly above the green bar.


Red? That sounds different that what I think most of us are talking about. Can you confirm that this is what you're seeing?


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## tyrntlzrdking (May 28, 2009)

I have not seen any ads on my TiVo yet, but if I do begin to get them I will try what someone else here recommended:

Pause Down Clear (to hide the option and clear any other controls)
Select Play Select Pause Select (hear three bings)

These pause items will now only appear for a brief flash and vanish. You can still Select them sight unseen however.

Let me know if it works for you.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Why? To continue to inform prospective buyers/subscribers who find this forum in their research that the TiVo interface is polluted with advertising sold by the company that they are thinking about paying money to -- *before* they buy the product and sign up for the service.


 I can agree with informing buyers, but posting into an existing thread with a legitimate bumping up will allow the new reader to more easily find all the posts already made. A new thread is just a vanity to feel like the rant was done better. For people that have contributed to the other threads though it has the opposite effect of making us think the OP just wants to mindlessly rant versus doing something constructive.


> Of course many here would rather suppress that fact out of selfish fear that sales will be lost and TiVo will go out of business or the subscription rate will increase......


and then there is your FUD on the whole issue as well


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## hc130radio (Sep 16, 2004)

As long as the basic function of 1. Record, 2. Rewind/Fast Forward (live or recorded shows), 3. Pause (live or recorded shows), I'm a happy customer.


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## tyrntlzrdking (May 28, 2009)

Well I went ahead and removed the "more about"/banner ads.
It also removes the time bar.
Everything works as if it was there.

Pause, down arrow.

Select, play, select, pause, select. You will hear three beeps.

Not sure if this can be undone or not. I dont know how.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

nrc said:


> Red? That sounds different that what I think most of us are talking about. Can you confirm that this is what you're seeing?


I've seen the ad the OP is referring to, and yes, it's got red in it, it's a slight modification of the screen cap in the image, the black mask above the blue bar is in red, and I think it was for a camera.

It's the same width as the progress bar, but I can see if you just changed the channel that the "green bar" section of the progress bar would be significantly narrower, and the banner ad would appear wider.

Diane


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

RoyK said:


> There are new readers every day who have not gone back and read the old posts with the old arguments. Obviously this is still an issue, old arguments or not. Personally I hope it continues to be 'drudged up'!


And it's posters like you who continue to swell my ignore list....:down:

(PS...read my sig...it was designed just for you)


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

tyrntlzrdking said:


> Well I went ahead and removed the "more about"/banner ads.
> It also removes the time bar.
> Everything works as if it was there.
> 
> ...


If you enter the code a second time while watching a recording, that will restore the default behavior. Rebooting the TiVo will also restore the default behavior.

The pause-clear macro with a universal remote is a much more elegant workaround, imo, because it preserves the time bar.


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## tyrntlzrdking (May 28, 2009)

bkd,

Thanks for the info!
I dont have any use for the time bar anyway. It is new to me so I will not miss it.
Its nice to have it out of the way too.
Universal remote may be the answer when I get a new DVD player.
I assume a universal remote has no problem being programed to control all features of the TiVo? 
Can you reccomend a certain remote?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> ...The pause-clear macro with a universal remote is a much more elegant workaround, imo, because it preserves the time bar.


EXACTLY why I use that with my Harmony One remote.



tyrntlzrdking said:


> ....I dont have any use for the time bar anyway. It is new to me so I will not miss it.
> Its nice to have it out of the way too....


When I first used a TiVo, that's what I thought, too. But now I use it a LOT to see where I'm at in a recording. You may discover you like it...give it some time.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ...
> and then there is your FUD on the whole issue as well


FUD?
I don't *Fear *the ads - I detest them.
There is no *Uncertainty* - they are certainly there - in spades.
And there is no *Doubt* that the ads will become even more prolific unless we users raise enough of a stink to change some minds at TiVo.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

You're not affected by the propaganda you post (because you yourself are crafting it), so it isn't FUD to you; rather you're FUD-ing others.


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## wedenton (Jun 13, 2002)

So now the ads are different colors. How long will it be before they start flashing, or turn into little monkeys that jump around your screen?

All my boxes are lifetimed, so it doesn't make sense to cancel, but Tivo will get no more revenue from me unless they start making their product better instead of worse.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Of course many here would rather suppress that fact out of selfish fear that sales will be lost and TiVo will go out of business or the subscription rate will increase......





ZeoTiVo said:


> and then there is your FUD on the whole issue as well





RoyK said:


> FUD?
> I don't *Fear *the ads - I detest them.


ah classic FUD to *not* reply to the *actual* post but sidestep it as if you never claimed that other posters were deliberately misleading on ads on TiVo. Maybe you could point out the posts that were deliberately misleading? of course you are probably thinking of the otehr threads the OP should have used in the first place


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ah classic FUD to *not* reply to the *actual* post but sidestep it as if you never claimed that other posters were deliberately misleading on ads on TiVo. Maybe you could point out the posts that were deliberately misleading? of course you are probably thinking of the otehr threads the OP should have used in the first place


Maybe you should point out where I said that anyone was misleading. I did say that many here (on this forum) would rather not see posts decrying the ads for the reasons I gave. There is ample evidence to support that in the many threads on the subject and I stand by the statement.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Maybe you should point out where I said that anyone was misleading. I did say that many here (on this forum) would rather not see posts decrying the ads for the reasons I gave. There is ample evidence to support that in the many threads on the subject and I stand by the statement.


suppress -- misleading
another classic FUD move to argue semantics while avoiding the main fact of your post.

Many have said the posts decrying ads are silly and useless, some, like me, have even challenged posters to do something real and actual about the ads; like cancel monthly subs and tell TiVo why. If you want to call that an effort at suppression then that statement by you is FUD to avoid the real topic which has been argued to death with no movement by TiVo to reduce anything they do.

Mainly people have just continued to rant and look for new and creative ways to justify the endless rant. I get a chuckle out of your new justification; though using phrases like "pollute the interface" is hardly informative.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> .... I get a chuckle out of your new justification; though using phrases like "pollute the interface" is hardly informative.


Glad to provide you amusement however pollution of the interface is an accurate description of how many of us feel about TiVo's ongoing -- and ever increasing -- effort to raise cash by presenting us with more and more advertising there.

The ads are still there in volume -- reason enough for continuing the rant.


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## ccfoodog (Feb 16, 2009)

While I think Tivo is a good product, and I know they are having financial difficulties, and I know the adds don't hurt me, I dislike the various advertising on the Tivo.

I paid for the hardware AND a monthly charge for the service, I don't know what is so bad to not want to see garbage I don't want.

And I don't know what is wrong with me (and others) saying so, be it a new thread or old.

I really don't know why these threads always turn into little flame wars.

-john


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

ccfoodog said:


> While I think Tivo is a good product, and I know they are having financial difficulties, and I know the adds don't hurt me, I dislike the various advertising on the Tivo.
> 
> I paid for the hardware AND a monthly charge for the service, I don't know what is so bad to not want to see garbage I don't want.
> 
> ...


ccfoodog, well, there are those who like to attack TiVo everytime they introduce a new attempt to generate revenue beyond subscription fees, and those who defend TiVo for their desire to stay in business.

When you buy that TiVo HD box for $300 (if you paid that much) from TiVo, that barely covers the cost of the box. Additionally, with your subscription fee and the other 1.6 million other stand-alone subscription fees, TiVo is STILL operating in or near the RED most months.

I respect those people who dislike ads popping on their screen, but in my opinion, TiVo's method pales in comparison to the pop-up ads from the channels themselves. Do you change the channel if you are watching a movie on TNT and all of a sudden you are watching an ad for The Closer at the bottom of your screen? At least TiVo does not impede your ability to actually watch your show.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Glad to provide you amusement however pollution of the interface is an accurate *description of how many of us feel* about TiVo's ongoing


and thus a subjective thing and not meant solely as an informative thing. Certainly this forum is for opinions as well as information, just try not not to sell one as the other.



ccfoodog said:


> And I don't know what is wrong with me (and others) saying so, be it a new thread or old.
> 
> I really don't know why these threads always turn into little flame wars.
> 
> -john


as to the flame wars - lets look at the two new threads
- I post about the tool that shows the recent threads on the same subject wnen you start a new thread. That tool was recently added as many would rather see all the posts on a topic stay in one thread. That tool was ignored by the OP. Somehow, I was instead perceived as suppressing info on ads and was jumped on chastising the OP about something that was not even actually ad related. Now I am fine with people replying to my posts with there thoughts and I actually see no flaming in this thread but bottom line - other posters started slinging and I replied back. What legitimate reason did the OP have for starting yet another thread?

in the other thread I gave the same opinion of someone starting another thread simply cause they wanted to rant, no informing about it. The replied with an insult wrapped in my user name. So sure they are looking to flame which I declined.

so you tell me, where do the flame wars come from?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ...
> - I post about the tool that shows the recent threads on the same subject wnen you start a new thread. That tool was recently added as many would rather see all the posts on a topic stay in one thread. That tool was ignored by the OP...
> 
> ....in the other thread I gave the same opinion of someone starting another thread simply cause they wanted to rant, no informing about it...


You are, of course, perfectly entitiled to express your opinion. However chastisement of posters as to the appropriateness of their posts is best left to the moderators, IMHO.


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## HScottBuck (Jun 17, 2009)

Wow, thanks for posting here. I'm also new to TiVo Community and somehow missed the first thead about Banner Ads.

This post came after I had order my new TiVo but in time for me to Cancel it. Anyone know if you can opt-out of the adds? Maybe pay TiVo a little more each month to not have to deal with them?

I guess a better question would be: Does Moxi do the same thing?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> You are, of course, perfectly entitiled to express your opinion. However chastisement of posters as to the appropriateness of their posts is best left to the moderators, IMHO.


it was a chastisement of starting yet another thread, it had nothing to do with the appropriateness of the post. I specifically made sure no moderator like talk was involved. In fact that is why I did not link to any FAQ or rules about it, which by the way make the chastisement more than just _my opinion_


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> But the long and short of it is that *there's nothing you can do to change this behavior other then mentioned already in this thread, there's no "opt-out" for the feature.*





HScottBuck said:


> Wow, thanks for posting here. I'm also new to TiVo Community and somehow missed the first thead about Banner Ads.
> 
> This post came after I had order my new TiVo but in time for me to Cancel it. Anyone know if you can opt-out of the adds? Maybe pay TiVo a little more each month to not have to deal with them?
> 
> I guess a better question would be: Does Moxi do the same thing?


No, you can not "opt-out"
IMNSHO canceling a great product over this issue seems rather silly to me, and most likely to many others, Tivo does so many things so much better then other DVRs I give them a lot of slack as they monkey around with ways to make themselves profitable.

In fact if you've ever worked with a cable company DVR, my opinion is that their ads are far worse, and they directly get in your way when you try to use the guide, I prefer the Tivo way far more.

Diane


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I understand how someone could miss a thread that has scrolled off of page one but doesn't the system specifically warn you and suggest threads that may be similar to the one you are about to post?

Would the OP not have specifically ignored the suggestions about similar threads?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I suggest that the posters who are barfing about the OP not paying attention to previous posts try starting a new one with the same topic "Banner Ads" . You will see this one, of course, 
one in Happy hour about Mac & PC Banner ads, one about the fast forward banner ads, one about a Weaknees banner ad on this forum, and one on issues with banner ads loading in Opera.

*There is not one single topic listed concering the topic in this thread -- banner ads on pause on the TiVo UI * Additionally the comment below the listing of threads merely *suggests *that the poster please take a look at the above topics before starting a new one...

So before you criticize a poster for opening a new thread I suggest you get your facts straight.


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## ccfoodog (Feb 16, 2009)

ah30k said:


> I understand how someone could miss a thread that has scrolled off of page one but doesn't the system specifically warn you and suggest threads that may be similar to the one you are about to post?
> 
> Would the OP not have specifically ignored the suggestions about similar threads?


Who cares? Could have not noticed them, or could have decided they didn't want to use one of them. *shrug*

-john


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> one in Happy hour about Mac & PC Banner ads, one about the fast forward banner ads
> 
> So before you criticize a poster for opening a new thread I suggest you get your facts straight.


umm - I put those very threads in my post. the 2007 would have alerted the astute poster to the fact this was an old topic that some reading up on would benefit the poster.

But hey try and say I did not have the facts in my post when I did.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> umm - I put those very threads in my post. the 2007 would have alerted the astute poster to the fact this was an old topic that some reading up on would benefit the poster.
> 
> But hey try and say I did not have the facts in my post when I did.


Pause ads weren't around in 2007. And even if they were nobody appointed you topic cop.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Pause ads weren't around in 2007. And even if they were nobody appointed you topic cop.


so I should listen to you and not post my opinion. Somehow that is not you being a moderator or cop yourself?

the forum pegs the last post in that thread as 01-20-2007. So I was just trying to use facts like you asked.


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## tyrntlzrdking (May 28, 2009)

RoyK,

I am new here and find Zeo to be quite annoying.
Is he a moderator?
He seems to need to control everything here.

Has he been appointed the topic cop?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ZeoTiVo is actually right; while RoyK is actually wrong. It's as simple as that.

Welcome to TCF.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tyrntlzrdking said:


> RoyK,
> 
> I am new here and find Zeo to be quite annoying.
> Is he a moderator?
> ...


you know I should report this thread but the moderators have better things to do with their time. I would again remind you that you are the one harassing me with direct insults and trying to get others in on it.

I have only given you my opinions on your posts.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

The only thing worse than banner ads is all the space devoted to arguing about them.

They exist, if no one clicks on them they will go away as the advertisers will figure that out sooner or later (For the group who opt-in, I am sure TiVo knows how often this group clicks on the ads). If people click on them and this actually helps drive revenue to what is being promoted - they will stay.

One method of making them go away is to convince the sub base to NOT click on them - no matter what. 

It was just so helpful when the NBA banner ad came up awhile ago. And then the Domino's banner during a pause on one of the games ( I actually prefer to order pizza over the phone, but I did remember I was hungry). Maybe I'm part of the problem, I can stop anytime - I'm a man, I can change, if I have to... I guess.

And here I am contributing to the discussion of banner ads.....


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bicker said:


> ZeoTiVo is actually right; while RoyK is actually wrong. It's as simple as that....


Preach it, bicker.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

tyrntlzrdking said:


> RoyK,
> 
> I am new here and find Zeo to be quite annoying.
> Is he a moderator?
> ...


Actually, I'm the moderator here, and the topic cop. And, the post cop.

Yours is out of line. If you dislike something somebody says, please hit the report button. If you find people on internet forums annoying, then I suggest you stay away.

Please read the rules of this forum and know if you continue your attack on other members you will be banned. It's always good to get the feeling of a forum before you start deciding who is annoying and who isn't - those who don't are considered trolls and dealt with accordingly.

Thanks for your cooperation.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

justapixel said:


> Please read the rules of this forum and know if you continue your attack on other members you will be banned. It's always good to get the feeling of a forum before you start deciding who is annoying and who isn't - those who don't are considered trolls and dealt with accordingly.


Perhaps like this?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Advertising drives our economy and creates jobs. Most of the shows recorded by TIVO have ads, but TIVO provides functionality to skip over the commercials. TIVO also provides functionality to skip their ads as well. It's not as bad as telemarketers or direct mail that puts you at risk for identity theft.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> ... It's not as bad as telemarketers or direct mail that puts you at risk for identity theft.


Shingles is not as bad as cancer. Assault is not as bad as murder. Your point is?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Shingles is not as bad as cancer. Assault is not as bad as murder. Your point is?


I think the point was the ads are not as bad as telemarketers or direct mail that puts you at risk for identity theft. Seemed pretty clear to me.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

kingkong316 said:


> Really people here are a little crazy. When you pause TV are you actually looking at it? It simply creates revenue for Tivo. Subscriptions are down 23% 1Q 2009 compared to 1Q 2008. And even with the ads revenues they are still in the hole financially compared to the same time last year.
> 
> So Tivo is basically trying to keep afloat. So can you blame them for trying to stay viable.


I'm about to buy a HD DVR. My choices are TiVo HD or DTV PAL HD. DTV PAL HD is $250 and there are no monthly fees. TiVo HD with lifetime is $700.

If I am paying $700 then I do not want any banner ads or pop-up ads or any changes to the service in the future without my permission. I think $700 is overpriced, and to add advertising makes TiVo less attractive.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

awesomeness said:


> I'm about to buy a HD DVR. My choices are TiVo HD or DTV PAL HD. DTV PAL HD is $250 and there are no monthly fees. TiVo HD with lifetime is $700.
> 
> If I am paying $700 then I do not want any banner ads or pop-up ads or any changes to the service in the future without my permission. I think $700 is overpriced, and to add advertising makes TiVo less attractive.


If you don't want any changes to the service without your permission than TiVo is not really an option.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

nrc said:


> If you don't want any changes to the service without your permission than TiVo is not really an option.


A product shouldn't change _after_ it is purchased. How can I be certain that TiVo won't disable the fast forward button sometime in the future? How can I be certain that TiVo won't play a commercial before it allows the user to play a recording? A product should work the way it is advertised when purchased. Changing how a product works after purchase is wrong in my opinion unless the owner gives permission.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

As nrc indicated, if *that* is what you want, then TiVo isn't an option for you. Indeed, no continually supported service provided in the mass-market is: They practically *all* operate under the same principles, which evidently aren't how you want to do business. Your best option is to do without.

Remember, you agreed to these changes when you accepted the original terms of your purchase. If you didn't realize that, then you were lax in your research and due diligence with regard to the purchase you made. Chalk it up as a lesson about what your responsibilities truly are as a purchaser in a transaction. So many purchasers are similar careless about their purchases - I don't think it is typically out of carelessness, though, but rather that many purchasers simply want to avoid the reality. They think by not finding out what they're agreeing to when making a purchase in the mass-market that they get to unilaterally impose the terms and conditions. Nothing could be further from the truth.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

awesomeness said:


> A product shouldn't change _after_ it is purchased. How can I be certain that TiVo won't disable the fast forward button sometime in the future? How can I be certain that TiVo won't play a commercial before it allows the user to play a recording? A product should work the way it is advertised when purchased. Changing how a product works after purchase is wrong in my opinion unless the owner gives permission.


Most users pay monthly/yearly fees, so TiVo is not going to reduce functionality in any way that will result in a substantial loss of customers. Tivo can't "throw users under the bus" once they make the sale, because they don't make money on the hardware; on the contrary, TiVo loses about $100 on the hardware and it takes at least 12-18 months of monthly subscription fees to recoup that. If everyone canceled after a year, TiVo wouldn't be in business for very long.

A portion of the subscription fee goes to improve the TiVo software, and that includes new features and services, as well as bug fixes. TiVo has repeatedly added and improved features to entice/interest new customers and keep the business of existing subscribers. Changes to the TivoHD software since release include:


revamped (greatly improved) wishlist functionality
support for eSATA expansion
support for multiroom viewing
ability to download recordings from DVR to computer
ability to transfer recordings from computer to DVR
improved manual recording screen
improved menu and guide responsiveness
significantly improved MRV performance
ability to single-click delete with clear button
ability to single-click play individual recordings and entire folders with play button
ability to jump to top/bottom of menus with -->|
ability to browse the guide while watching recorded programs
ability to advance 1.5 hrs at a time in the guide with >> and << buttons.
ability to advance a day at a time in the guide with replay and skip buttons
ability to watch Amazon Unbox as it downloads
Crestron integration and remote control via tcp/ip (ex: control TiVo with iPod Touch / iPhone)
support for Switched Digital Video (SDV) adapters
native support for MPEG-4 and VC1
support for Netflix SD/HD streaming
swivel search, recently replaced with the 16:9 TiVo Search (broadband users only)
occasional ad banner on TiVo menu and end-of-playback delete prompt (yuck)
pause menu with occasional banner ad (yuck)

Of those changes, most people only find the last item objectionable (to varying degrees). People don't like the occasional advertisement that they see with the pause menu. If this _really_ bothers you, you can get rid of it with a universal remote by setting your pause button to perform pause-clear.


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## liquidgraph (Apr 13, 2009)

Yes I highly agree with you, the ads are really annoying, however as stated before Tivo is trying to stay profitable due to the lower number of subscriotions.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

awesomeness said:


> A product shouldn't change _after_ it is purchased. How can I be certain that TiVo won't disable the fast forward button sometime in the future? How can I be certain that TiVo won't play a commercial before it allows the user to play a recording? A product should work the way it is advertised when purchased. Changing how a product works after purchase is wrong in my opinion unless the owner gives permission.


I wish my windows software would stop updating and changing, it is no longer the software I purchased (Thankfully )

As bicker and bkdtv say, changes are to your benefit - usually. Changes that are not to your benefit are usually fixed. And yes, some changes are to the benefit of TiVo - like the banner ads. I still think they could have been much more intrusive... With a sub, you are paying for a service. Overall, it is a pretty good service and has provided some features I otherwise would not have (and a few I could not get nearly as well - if at all).

Find the option that is best for you. Maybe it is TiVo, maybe another box. TiVo is not the cheapest option and I suspect that many on this forum have a TiVo because they do not want the cheapest option, they want the best option that works for them (though there are threads that debate the true cost of that cable DVR and you may want to look at those and build your own cost vs feature analysis).


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

High quality costs money....nuff said.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

awesomeness said:


> A product shouldn't change _after_ it is purchased. How can I be certain that TiVo won't disable the fast forward button sometime in the future? How can I be certain that TiVo won't play a commercial before it allows the user to play a recording? A product should work the way it is advertised when purchased. Changing how a product works after purchase is wrong in my opinion unless the owner gives permission.


simply put - TiVo would loose the too few subscribers it has now if it did those things - you are worrying about something that will only happen if TiVo is not worth subscribing to anymore anyhow. That kind of risk that the product may not be the long term value we hoped for is one taken everyday in our capitalistic society.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

awesomeness said:


> Changing how a product works after purchase is wrong in my opinion unless the owner gives permission.


you did give permission.

you did read the terms&conditions that you agreed to, didn't you?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Da Goon said:


> you did give permission.
> 
> you did read the terms&conditions that you agreed to, didn't you?


He doesn't have a TiVo.


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## sgip2000 (Jun 19, 2009)

I remember a couple years back, Comcast placed very large ads in the guide on their boxes. Many people complained and they made them smaller. Much more tolerable.

I'm sure Tivo tried their best to add revenue with the least amount of intrusion possible. The ads could be a LOT worse.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

sgip2000 said:


> I ... The ads could be a LOT worse.


You are absolutely correct. They are now merely awful. They could be terribly awful.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

Da Goon said:


> you did give permission.
> 
> you did read the terms&conditions that you agreed to, didn't you?


I came here to do research before buying. 

I'm leaning towards the DTV PAL HD DVR unless I find something about TiVo that only TiVo can do which is worth the premium price.

The other box I am considering buying in addition is the Roku player. Netflix offers unlimited streaming for $7 per month and they offer HD.

I am giving up cable and will try over the air HD. I'm willing to pay for a good DVR, I just don't want any surprises.

The DTV PAL lacks some features of TiVo, but it is $450 less than TiVo with a lifetime subscription.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

daveak said:


> I wish my windows software would stop updating and changing, it is no longer the software I purchased (Thankfully )


Windows allows you to turn off any updates. You can pick and choose what updates to run. If you want the newer IE but don't want the service pack, Windows allows you to update only what you want. I think TiVo should work the same way-- the user can turn updates on or off.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

bkdtv said:


> *TiVo loses about $100 on the hardware *and it takes at least 12-18 months of monthly subscription fees to recoup that.


They sell the HD DVR for $299 and the HD XL DVR for $599. On top of that is yearly fees of $120, or a lifetime fee of $400. I would think for $700 or $1000 that TiVo would be highly profitable.

How can DTV PAL sell for $249 and be profitable without any monthly fees if TiVo is losing $100 per HD DVR that costs $299?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

awesomeness said:


> I came here to do research before buying.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the DTV PAL HD DVR unless I find something about TiVo that only TiVo can do which is worth the premium price.
> 
> ...


The DTV PAL doesn't just lack some features. The 2 units are not on the same playing field. The DTV PAL is effectively a DVR that works and functions like a VCR. If you don't understand that isn't what a TiVo is then you need to do allot of research.

Don't get me wrong the DTV PAL maybe just what you are looking for. If all you want is something to manually record shows with it works just fine.

Good Luck,


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

awesomeness said:


> They sell the HD DVR for $299 and the HD XL DVR for $599. On top of that is yearly fees of $120, or a lifetime fee of $400. I would think for $700 or $1000 that TiVo would be highly profitable.
> 
> How can DTV PAL sell for $249 and be profitable without any monthly fees if TiVo is losing $100 per HD DVR that costs $299?


I can buy hamburger pretty cheap - but it just is not a steak though both are good for a meal.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

atmuscarella said:


> The DTV PAL doesn't just lack some features. The 2 units are not on the same playing field. The DTV PAL is effectively a DVR that works and functions like a VCR. If you don't understand that isn't what a TiVo is then you need to do allot of research.
> 
> Don't get me wrong the DTV PAL maybe just what you are looking for. If all you want is something to manually record shows with it works just fine.
> 
> Good Luck,


I don't have DTV PAL, but looking at description it sounds like Dish is using the same or similar software to Dish DVR 50X series. The timer approach is much more powerful than manual recording VCR style. I used it for quite a few years and actually liked it. You go to a guide - one click and it records a show, two clicks and it records a series. It does setup timers and indeed you need to watch for the time slot changes. But in all the years I used it, I can count on one hand times that I needed to change time slot for any show. Actually, shows like Daily show are handled much better with timer recording you don't get all the re-runs like you do with TiVo (TiVo fixed it lately so you only get re-runs on Monday, but still the same - it is better to set timer for Daily show when to rely on name based approach).
If timer approach is used for the OTA network shows, then it works just as good as name based. I can't recall a last time networks changed time slots for any soaps or other junk they run every week. For the OTA only TiVo is a overkill considering the price difference.
One thing that people misunderstand about timer based recording is that you don't set start and end time as you do with VCR. DVR does it for you automatically from the guide. You can make adjustments (start early, stop late), but they are not required. Timers are just as transparent to the user as the name based recording, they just do not follow the show if time slot changes.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

But that's exactly what makes the DTVPal and a Tivo HD apples and oranges - the DTVPal is OTA only. If you're willing to live with that AND live with what is essentially a digital-age (including bugs) VCR, then more power to you. But there's no comparison to a Tivo.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> I don't have DTV PAL, but looking at description it sounds like Dish is using the same or similar software to Dish DVR 50X series. The timer approach is much more powerful than manual recording VCR style. I used it for quite a few years and actually liked it. You go to a guide - one click and it records a show, two clicks and it records a series. It does setup timers and indeed you need to watch for the time slot changes. But in all the years I used it, I can count on one hand times that I needed to change time slot for any show. Actually, shows like Daily show are handled much better with timer recording you don't get all the re-runs like you do with TiVo (TiVo fixed it lately so you only get re-runs on Monday, but still the same - it is better to set timer for Daily show when to rely on name based approach).
> If timer approach is used for the OTA network shows, then it works just as good as name based. I can't recall a last time networks changed time slots for any soaps or other junk they run every week. For the OTA only TiVo is a overkill considering the price difference.
> One thing that people misunderstand about timer based recording is that you don't set start and end time as you do with VCR. DVR does it for you automatically from the guide. You can make adjustments (start early, stop late), but they are not required. Timers are just as transparent to the user as the name based recording, they just do not follow the show if time slot changes.


well the TiVo has no problem with doing the exact type of recordings you list above - yet everyone with a TiVo does season passes and wishlists - heck I use a wishlist on the daily show and knock out the repeats even when John Stewart takes a week off and the whole week is repeats. I also use a wishlist to keep 20 scifi movies on hand at any time. How does the time based recording handle that? 
Make me go through the guide data and pick out movies? Sorry not worth saving some bucks to have to spend my time going through the guide data when the TiVo does such a great job of doing it for me.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

RoyK said:


> You are absolutely correct. They are now merely awful. They could be terribly awful.


Roy, you're wasting your time. We're outnumbered by too many TiVo fanbois here who think a screen festooned with irrelevant visual trash, and TiVo Inc.'s callous customer attitude is no big deal.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

No, you're outnumbered by too many mature, rational folks -- too many folks who don't suffer from unfounded entitlement.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

I will go with the DTV PAL DVR. Should be just as good at recording what I want. 

If anyone from TiVo reads this, you really messed up. You drove a customer away.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

awesomeness said:


> I will go with the DTV PAL DVR. Should be just as good at recording what I want.
> 
> If anyone from TiVo reads this, you really messed up. You drove a customer away.


Bye.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

awesomeness said:


> I will go with the DTV PAL DVR. Should be just as good at recording what I want.


I'm sure it will be if you don't mind having to manage it as strictly as you would a VCR.
My time is more valuable than that.


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

orangeboy said:


> Bye.


Amazing that TiVo has this attitude.

Instead of selling a TiVo HD DVR for $300 plus $400 for lifetime serive to a customer for a total of $700, TiVo takes the attitude of "screw you".

How much more advertising will TiVo add to make up for the loss in sales to new customers? Here is $700 that is walking away. Those of you who are locked into TiVo service because you paid for the hardware are the ones who will be forced along for the ride by TiVo and decreased revenue.

What will happen if TiVo goes bankrupt? Will all the TiVo DVR's turn into bricks?


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## awesomeness (Jul 28, 2009)

steve614 said:


> I'm sure it will be if you don't mind having to manage it as strictly as you would a VCR.
> My time is more valuable than that.


I was told over at AVS you can just click on a shows name in the guide and have it record that show each week. Is this not true? That is better than any VCR I had.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

awesomeness said:


> orangeboy said:
> 
> 
> > Bye.
> ...


I'm sorry, but I'm not from Tivo. I never worked for Tivo. Probably never will. I believe you had/have unrealistic expectations about what you get for your money. I have 2 Tivos, and absolutely HATE using anything different when housesitting/vacationing/whatever. Since you've never had a Tivo, you won't miss it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

awesomeness said:


> I was told over at AVS you can just click on a shows name in the guide and have it record that show each week. Is this not true? That is better than any VCR I had.


Well yeah, better than a VCR...but my opinion is biased from this thread and others about the DTVPal DVR. I'm already used to a Tivo and its features. There's no way I would downgrade now. 
Does that make me a Tivo fanboy? I suppose so. 
To me, Tivo is set it and forget it. Any other DVR has to prove it can be just as efficient and from what I've read about the DTVPal DVR, it doesn't even come close.


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## Rooster (Oct 21, 2002)

Well, I finally put my money where my mouth was and canceled my service (and switched from cable, because I couldn't stand their DVR). While the AT&T UVerse isn't TiVo, it's useable and light years better than the Cable DVR. A feature or two that I think are better done than the TiVo, one hideous oversight that bothers me, and a bunch of small things TiVo did that I simply just miss. 

In the end, it wasn't that any one of the ad systems delivered over the last few years drove me away, but rather the overall trend to keep introducing more and more and, as you expect to happen with ad providers, make them harder to ignore. I was okay with the overlays on certain commercials, the ads in folders started to bother me but I could live with them, the chimes when you'd fast forward past the wrong commercial REALLY got under my skin and made me reconsider my loyalties(I posted a few times about it, but haven't experienced it a whole lot since, so hopefully that meant TiVo listened), and the ads on the pause screen proved that this was an unmistakeable direction that would continue, for me, to lower the value I get from the hassle-free TiVo experience I loved for so long. 

I'm pretty ad-averse, so I understand that TiVo still provides a lot of value for those that aren't as touchy about ads as I am. I think there was a disconnect between how I thought of TiVo and how TiVo sees themselves (or maybe how they had to evolve to stay in business). I saw them as a premium DVR provider. I paid significant money up front, higher monthly fees, and assumed the risk of hardware failure in return for a drastically better experience. That was the deal I thought I made back on '02. Ads cheapened the feel service for me and others came out with useable (but still inferior) DVRs, so the equation changed. 

I'd probably still be around if they had raised initial hardware costs instead of going the ad route, but I realize high initial hardware costs are what has been holding TiVo back from the truly mass market. They're pushing out premium software and getting to the point where the hardware needs to get cheaper and cheaper to gain mass market acceptance and advertising is, apparently, what's needed to make that up. 

I'll be honest, my initial feeling was one of betrayal. I'd plopped down a fair sum of money to be part of the TiVolution and I continued to pay monthly (along with plopping down for HMO on 2 devices) on one of my DVRs and TiVo changed what I thought was the gameplan. I paid a premium price and was being treated like a subsidized user. Way to screw the people who helped get you were you are, I thought. I now realize that it's just TiVo trying to stay alive. Users like me weren't enough to make them profitable, so they had to make sacrifices somewhere. Unfortunately, those sacrifices just didn't mesh with my ad-averse views and took away too much value for me and other options started to make sense. 

While I personally would've preferred higher hardware costs and for them to remain a truly premium provider, where user experience was the only concern ... that strategy may very well have driven them to bankruptcy. No doubt they weighed their losses both ways before choosing their current route. My being a casualty has already been accounted for and I truly wish TiVo luck in their new direction.

I am, however, a free agent. I'm not in love with the UVerse DVR like I was with TiVo initially; I'd switch in a heartbeat if the value equation changed. No loyalty inertia like there was to get me to switch from TiVo. If someone out there introduces a truly premium no hassle solution, I'm ready to part with some of my disposable income. If TiVo comes up with a profitable model that focuses on premium customer experiences and loses the ads (maybe tiered service levels?), I'd definitely give them a look again. Until then, I'll live with acceptable but cheap until something that suits my needs comes along.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

Rooster said:


> I'm pretty ad-averse [...]


Then U-Verse probably wasn't the way to go. Apparently, new ads are coming to that world, too. This is a STB, but the DVR can't be far behind:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10440907


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

The U-Verse messages are only for U-Verse services (PPV, premiums, etc) as far as I know.










That said, you can definitely expect most cable DVRs to implement advertising at some point.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

bkdtv said:


> The U-Verse messages are only for U-Verse services (PPV, premiums, etc) as far as I know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


According to the user, it pops up over live TV unrelated to any inactivity timeout. U-Verse service or not, that's a heluva lot worse than any banner or Gold Star ad.


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## Rooster (Oct 21, 2002)

sinanju said:


> Then U-Verse probably wasn't the way to go. Apparently, new ads are coming to that world, too. This is a STB, but the DVR can't be far behind:
> 
> http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10440907


Like I said, I'm a free agent. If AT&T implements something that really bothers me, there's absolutely no loyalty there and I'll have no problems going to DirecTV or back to Cable or whatever. There's not that loyalty inertia I had with TiVo that kept me around after the beeps when fast forwarding past certain commercials and there are no hardware costs I'd eat if I were to switch from AT&T. If I can't hide anywhere without getting ads because all the DVRs have them, at least I'll feel better that I'm not paying a premium to receive them. If I realize 2 months from now that I just can't live without TiVo, I can go right back. Right now though, I'm doing ok.

I'm not here to claim that UVerse is better than TiVo. It just ended up being cheaper and close enough to TiVo that it wasn't worth it to pay the TiVo premium + be responsible for hardware + deal with ever more intrusive ads. I haven't noticed an ad on UVerse, with the exception of the message noted in this thread about some free pizza deal if you sign up for Showtime. The ever more intrusive ads part may be applicable to all the DVRs down the line, but I'll deal with it then.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

sinanju said:


> According to the user, it pops up over live TV unrelated to any inactivity timeout. U-Verse service or not, that's a heluva lot worse than any banner or Gold Star ad.


AT&T is claiming it was a service notification, not an ad.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Rooster said:


> I haven't noticed an ad on UVerse, with the exception of the message noted in this thread about some free pizza deal if you sign up for Showtime. The ever more intrusive ads part may be applicable to all the DVRs down the line, but I'll deal with it then.


so you can deal with something that covers the whole screen and is just selling a premium channel but not a pause as that barely covers anything ? seems kind of loopy to me , but not as loopy as going to an inferior DVR simply to avoid some ads for a bit longer


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I don't think that is what Rooster was saying. Rather, I think Rooster was saying that 
utility(TiVo + how much extra it costs) < utility(UVerse)​


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bicker said:


> I don't think that is what Rooster was saying. Rather, I think Rooster was saying that
> utility(TiVo + how much extra it costs) < utility(UVerse)​


yes, but his equation has a factor for ads that subtracts from the utility. However on Uverse he seems to think ads are not a factor when in fact ads are part of uverse and will become more so.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

morac said:


> AT&T is claiming it was a service notification, not an ad.


Service notifications don't have a tie-in with Dominos.


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## Rooster (Oct 21, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so you can deal with something that covers the whole screen and is just selling a premium channel but not a pause as that barely covers anything ? seems kind of loopy to me , but not as loopy as going to an inferior DVR simply to avoid some ads for a bit longer


To be fair, that wasn't one of the advertised "features" of UVerse so when I made my decision, so it wasn't really taken into account. I'd prefer not to have a full screen overlay on those type of messages and the Dominos tie makes it an uncomfortable grey area between a service announcement and an ad, but it's happened exactly once since I've been a member. If it becomes problematic, nothing is holding me back from switching (no upfront hardware costs, no contract). If I invest in 3 TiVo HD models and they do the same thing, I would feel held back to get a return on that hardware investment and there's very likely a contract that would tie me into the 1 and only cable company servicing my area if I want to continue to use my TiVos.

Looking at costs, I pay $7/mo for 2 additional DVR boxes and even though the main DVR is included in my plan, it costs the cheaper plans $15/mo so we'll include that. Let's call that $29/mo in DVR costs. To upgrade to the equivalent 3 TiVo HD units, I'd be looking at $600-900 in upfront costs depending on if I go refurb and other discounts. I'd also be looking at $12/mo in cable card fees and $27/mo in TiVo fees (9.95 MSD Rate x 2, plus a 6.95 grandfathered rate). In addition, I'm responsible for the costs of hardware failure, there's a contract on those 9.95 rates IIRC and I'm going to have to keep my S2 Lifetime plugged in an calling in to keep those MSD rates. So the equation is $29/mo and nothing keeping me from switching if they go nuts with ads vs. $600 upfront and $39/mo with hardware risks and contracts. I realize that a portion of my up front costs could be reclaimed by reselling (assuming the hardware doesn't die before I'm ready to sell, then it could be more one time costs). I think my analysis was pretty generous to TiVo using refurb hardware prices, MSD/Grandfathered rates, accounting for resale possibilities and including the $15/mo that I would've been paying for anyway on the AT&T side. Even then, going the TiVo route doesn't guarantee that 6 or 12 months from now you don't get full screen ads that interrupt your viewing (mine didn't interrupt mine, but I know it could've). In fact, given their overall trend, I would expect more ads to come and for them to get harder to ignore.

Oddly enough, when I was griping about the chime during the fast forward, I believe you were the one calling me out to make a switch if it bothered me that much. It eventually did bother me enough, it just took a while for me to take action because of the loyalty I'd built with TiVo. I'm not saying your wrong by staying with TiVo, it just isn't right for me anymore. I'm totally open to coming back if things change though. I still say that that, minus the ads, TiVo is hands down the best DVR software out there (AT&T's DVR was more useable than I expected, to be honest ... but it's no TiVo).

I'm pretty sure there was an executive at some point that made the call on higher pricing to be a super premium DVR vs. subsidizing and ad support to go more mass market. Truthfully it seems like they've got a weird hybrid approach that I don't think quite satisfies either group fully, but I'm not paid to run TiVo. My defection has no doubt been accounted for already and I've probably been replaced with 3 people that wouldn't have considered TiVo before because of initial hardware prices and don't mind the ads. It was a business decision and people like me weren't enough to make TiVo profitable years ago, so it was one I can respect even if I would've rather seen them go another way.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Rooster said:


> My defection has no doubt been accounted for already and I've probably been replaced with 3 people that wouldn't have considered TiVo before because of initial hardware prices and don't mind the ads. It was a business decision and people like me weren't enough to make TiVo profitable years ago, so it was one I can respect even if I would've rather seen them go another way.


If you look at TiVO SEC filings, it is more like 2 customers leaving for each customer coming on board. But it certainly was a business decision to add ads. Perhaps TiVo does not mind losing subscribers as long as remaining subscribers are happy with getting more ads.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Good point: (1.1 * (A-0.1)) could be greater than (1.0 * (A))


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## Blackie (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi, 
I'm a new guy as far as posting goes, been lurking and learning for a bit.

I learned to love the Tivo back in '05 when I got a direcTV Tivo DVR. Loved it but ended up setting it aside when I moved and they didn't want dishes hanging off the new duplex. 
Went to cable DVR (Mediacom in our area) and it was B A D. We picked up a refurb series 2 and fell right back in love with it. Last year we grabbed a refurb TivoHd when we got the shiny new TV.

(Tivo Life story now over..)

I have seen these threads elsewhere on the web about "the EVIL ADS that blast all over the Tivo now"...<_oohooo scary nosies_>

You what, I could care less. 
It pops up when I pause. So what, I was going to answer the phone or make a plate of nachos anyway. It's small and if I really don't want to see it I can press "down" and it goes away. 
The ads on the cable system unit were many times more intrusive as I had to scoll over them just to get from one screen of program guide to the next.

Love the Tivo, ignore the ads.

But hey Tivo, don't keep going that direction, because it CAN get worse and that really would suck.

If you want to talk about ads that suck then lets go start a new thread about the ones they make me sit through before the movie I PAID for.

Thanks 
/ramblin'


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Rooster said:


> Oddly enough, when I was griping about the chime during the fast forward, I believe you were the one calling me out to make a switch if it bothered me that much. It eventually did bother me enough, it just took a while for me to take action because of the loyalty I'd built with TiVo. I'm not saying your wrong by staying with TiVo, it just isn't right for me anymore. I'm totally open to coming back if things change though. I still say that that, minus the ads, TiVo is hands down the best DVR software out there (AT&T's DVR was more useable than I expected, to be honest ... but it's no TiVo).


ah, I was more challangeing the whole thread so was not thinking of anyone specific after that thread was over. It does amuse me that the chime is no more. Seems that one did fail whatever litmus test TiVo is using to keep things.

So good for you to move on if it really does bother you. I hope you told TiVo the why. Though like Samo and you point out it may well be that TiVo was ready to lose subscribers over this.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Blackie said:


> ...The ads on the cable system unit were many times more intrusive as I had to scoll over them just to get from one screen of program guide to the next....


Interesting that, when we repeatedly hear folks *****ing about the "ads" on their TiVo and how they're going back to their cable DVR, we don't hear this comment at all. It's refreshing to hear some honesty...thanks Blackie. I have Mediacrap in my market, too, and, from what I hear from those who use their DVRs, the TiVo is head and shoulders above -- even with upfront hardware and monthly fees.


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