# Liberty Comments about the D* deal



## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV.

Here is a link to skyreport: http://www.skyreport.com/



> Puerto Rico Overlap Hinders Liberty/DIRECTV Deal
> Concerns about Liberty Media's presence in Puerto Rico, which may become a big deal for regulators if the company acquires a controlling stake in DIRECTV and maintains its cable operations on the island, appears to be holding up approval of the big DBS deal.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

So.......

Where does the TiVo aspect play into the fact that the stock swap is still in regulatory-hell ?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV.


I would agree that there might've been some hope in the beginning, when the R15 and HR20 were plagued with problems.

But they've invested a LOT of money in the HR20/21. The DVR is pretty competitive with TiVo, sure we can argue that TiVo is better, etc. But they are launching MRV and DirecTV to go features, expandable hard drives, video on demand. Many of this stuff was NEVER available on a DirecTiVo system, and you could make they argument that a Series3 for DirecTV would be stripped down. (No TTG, MRV, Rhapsody, HME, etc.) Many people have posted that TiVo didn't want to deliver a 'full tivo experience' to directv because it would dip into standalone sales...

ETA- also, I doubt liberty is going to take an emotional TiVo is better stance. Looking purely at the numbers, demand for the HR20/21 has been high and their subscriber numbers have been steadily increasing. What motivation do they have to make a change?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> So.......
> 
> Where does the TiVo aspect play into the fact that the stock swap is still in regulatory-hell ?


I know a lot of other folks are waiting to see what if anything will happen between Tivo and DirecTV when Liberty takes over. I'm merely pointing out the latest information that I found on the internet. 

I find it amusing (and expected it) that here I am trying to post an update in a Tivo forum about something which may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users and you folks are already over here telling me how stupid that is.

Do you guys feel the need to purge us out by a certain date? Are you all hoping we will just go away so you don't have to read a positive thought about a Tivo or heaven forbid, one of us pointing out a concern about the other products?

Sheesh, can't you let us discuss something just once without all of the HR20 stuff?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I know a lot of other folks are waiting to see what if anything will happen between Tivo and DirecTV when Liberty takes over.


But the take over will not impact tivo in any way, for the reasons pointed out above.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> I know a lot of other folks are waiting to see what if anything will happen between Tivo and DirecTV when Liberty takes over. I'm merely pointing out the latest information that I found on the internet.
> 
> I find it amusing (and expected it) that here I am trying to post an update in a Tivo forum about something which may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users and you folks are already over here telling me how stupid that is.
> 
> ...


I am just asking how the take over by Liberty... has ANY impact on the TiVo aspects of the service.
As you state.. it "may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users "

Please explain HOW... what concrete evidence do you have, that the Liberty take over will have any impact on the aspect of the TiVo, Inc platform being part of the DirecTV lineup again?

Has Liberty in any other press released stated the moment they take over they are going back to TiVo.... or is it the faint hope that at one time Mr. Malone like the TiVo platform, that keeps the glimmer there?

You do know that the CEO of DirecTV Group isn't changing after the merger right? 
You do know that Liberty is a big holding company of a lot of other companies right?
You do know that DirecTV Group, just spent a serious amount of money to purchase TiVo #1 Patent rival, ReplayTV... right?

And to the other point of your reply.....
Do you constantly feel the urge to attack those of us, that are asking you a simple question?

You could have just left it at.... there is still a glimer that Liberty will bring TiVo back... and that is why it is important... but yet you decided to take another swing at me...

And another question for you.... where did I mention the HR20 or the HR21 in my post?
I was asking what type of impact that has for the TiVo question.... is that a fair question based on the post you made....


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> But the take over will not impact tivo in any way, for the reasons pointed out above.


Gosh, I should become really close with you. I see you have an inside track to what's going on, where I'm just a mere observer


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## Cooper (Oct 10, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Looking purely at the numbers, demand for the HR20/21 has been high and their subscriber numbers have been steadily increasing. What motivation do they have to make a change?


Well, one could argue that demand for the HR20/21 is not high, but demand for a DirecTV HD-DVR is high, the HR2* is now the only game in town...

Possible reason why Liberty would be interested in getting back together with TiVo? Well, how much does will it cost Liberty to license the HR20/21 technology once the DTV deal goes through? What if TiVo came to them with a better deal?

Personally, I don't think it will happen - as much as I love(d) my TiVos, I just don't the company is run well enough to actually succeed in the long term.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Cooper said:


> Well, one could argue that demand for the HR20/21 is not high, but demand for a DirecTV HD-DVR is high, the HR2* is now the only game in town...
> 
> Possible reason why Liberty would be interested in getting back together with TiVo? Well, how much does will it cost Liberty to license the HR20/21 technology once the DTV deal goes through? What if TiVo came to them with a better deal?
> 
> Personally, I don't think it will happen - as much as I love(d) my TiVos, I just don't the company is run well enough to actually succeed in the long term.


Considering DirecTV OWNS the HR20/21 technology (since they wrote it), I would think the cost to license it... would be zero.

Now the R15 series, that is different since that is build by NDS.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Cooper said:


> Well, how much does will it cost Liberty to license the HR20/21 technology once the DTV deal goes through?


From themselves?


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## Cooper (Oct 10, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Now the R15 series, that is different since that is build by NDS.


Ah, yes... my mistake. Then let me rephrase... I'd guess there's zero chance that TiVo could make a better deal than $0 with Liberty.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Gosh, I should become really close with you. I see you have an inside track to what's going on, where I'm just a mere observer


I don't have to have an 'inside track' to know how a corporation works or to read up on the subject. Also, you're the one that talked about waiting for some kind of TiVo / DirecTV partnership, what is your inside track to what's going on? Because there doesn't appear to be ANY comments from Liberty on this subject.

The CEO of DirecTV (whoever that is) has a fiduciary responsibility to it's stock holders. If a CEO decided that he was going to scrap a DVR that DirecTV spent millions of dollars developing, that works fine, and is saving them money because 'he likes tivo better', I think there would be some serious questions from the stockholders.

Like I said, it's not like the DVR is problematic, or is costing them subscribers. As it stands now, the HR20/21 has more features than a DirecTiVo ever had. And I'm saying this as someone who LEFT directv to stay with TiVo. You never saw MRV, TTG, HMO/HME on a directivo even though it's been out for YEARS, yet now you're seeing it on the HR20/21 platform.

I bet if they did 'switch back to tivo' you'd read a lot of angry people on the DBSTalk board about how they're losing MRV, DirecTV to Go, etc.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> I am just asking how the take over by Liberty... has ANY impact on the TiVo aspects of the service.
> As you state.. it "may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users "
> 
> Please explain HOW... what concrete evidence do you have, that the Liberty take over will have any impact on the aspect of the TiVo, Inc platform being part of the DirecTV lineup again?
> ...


Earl, I posted the update for those folks that were curious about what was going on in the merger. There have been many comments in these threads for several weeks asking about news of the merger. I purposely made no comment or expressed no opinions beyond that. But yet, you (and the next guy) jump all over me like I'm starting something about new Tivo - D* rumors.

You read these forums a lot - my guess is daily. And you surely have to know that a lot of us are looking for some official word about future relationships. There has been nothing pro and nothing con about a relationship. In fact, both companies have offered mixed hints, yet nothing official.

As long as nothing has been stated officially, then there is still the nagging questions for those of us who will use that fact as part of our decision-making strategies.

My gosh, why can't you guys just let me post a simple news article without jumping all over me?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Earl, I posted the update for those folks that were curious about what was going on in the merger. There have been many comments in these threads for several weeks asking about news of the merger. I purposely made no comment or expressed no opinions beyond that. But yet, you (and the next guy) jump all over me like I'm starting something about new Tivo - D* rumors.
> 
> You read these forums a lot - my guess is daily. And you surely have to know that a lot of us are looking for some official word about future relationships. There has been nothing pro and nothing con about a relationship. In fact, both companies have offered mixed hints, yet nothing official.
> 
> ...


Nobody is jumping all over you, just asking about your comment, "I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV. "

Who is waiting and why? There is simply no evidence of any 'tivo relationship' unless you know otherwise. The article you linked says nothing about TiVo, so it's a fair question.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> I don't have to have an 'inside track' to know how a corporation works or to read up on the subject. Also, you're the one that talked about waiting for some kind of TiVo / DirecTV partnership, what is your inside track to what's going on? Because there doesn't appear to be ANY comments from Liberty on this subject.
> 
> The CEO of DirecTV (whoever that is) has a fiduciary responsibility to it's stock holders. If a CEO decided that he was going to scrap a DVR that DirecTV spent millions of dollars developing, that works fine, and is saving them money because 'he likes tivo better', I think there would be some serious questions from the stockholders.
> 
> ...


I could care less about the HR20 as the rest of you. I've pretty much made up my mind on that issue.

Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be. But, I would assume we would get some sort of sign official or otherwise as to what is going on between the 2, especially shortly after Liberty takes over. So, the purpose of the thread was to just point out the latest news article about the 2 companies for others like me that are interested in the matter.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I could care less about the HR20 as the rest of you. I've pretty much made up my mind on that issue.
> 
> Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be. But, I would assume we would get some sort of sign official or otherwise as to what is going on between the 2, especially shortly after Liberty takes over. So, the purpose of the thread was to just point out the latest news article about the 2 companies for others like me that are interested in the matter.


I hear ya, I would love to hear about a Series3 DirecTiVo, trust me, I'm a huge TiVo fan.

I wish the HR20 was still the piece of crap it was when it came out, and DirecTV was experiencing huge loss of subscribers because if it. But since that's not the case, I just can't see it happening. They've spent way to much money.

I think TiVo should try to 'sell' them on going back to the OLD days of DirecTiVo. TIVO sells it, TiVo makes it, TiVo supports it. You want TiVo and directv? You pay TiVo $12.95/mo and DirecTV for the service. Then TiVo kicks up a % to DirecTV. Then DirecTV can still advertise and push their own cheaper DVR and TiVo fans can buy a TiVo.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be.




Ummm, the official announcement was over 3 years ago. Tivo will no longer develop new receivers for DirecTV. Done deal. It's over.

Tivo however still supports the stock of DirecTivo's that are out there with bug fixes and updates. That support contract runs for a couple more years and I'm sure will be renewed. So if a renewal of a support contract constitutes a "new" relationship between Tivo and DirecTV then there you have it.


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## DAVIDGR (Oct 26, 2002)

Geez! So RS4 didn't have any real news about the DVR. Big deal. All he wanted to do was post an article about regulatory problems with Liberty.


Is it directly related to this forum? No.
Might it be "interesting" to some readers? Perhaps.

Maybe all he wanted to do was raise his post count. By coming down so hard on him everyone is making this more important than it really is. Let's close this topic (now that I've added my two cents) and move on to other things!


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

To the OP RS4,

The reason folks are getting on your case as you put is, is because:

In your initial post and thread title you stated 
"
Here is a link to skyreport: http://www.skyreport.com/

Quote:
Puerto Rico Overlap Hinders Liberty/DIRECTV Deal
Concerns about Liberty Media's presence in Puerto Rico, which may become a big deal for regulators if the company acquires a controlling stake in DIRECTV and maintains its cable operations on the island, appears to be holding up approval of the big DBS deal"

essentially the trhead title says one thin. But within the post you mention the Tivo "relationship". The Tivo relationship was severed 3 years ago and only recently renewed to existing boxes and continued support.

You started this thread as if the sky report actually had some GOOD information, then ened with your last post of

Posted by RS4:

"Instead, I'm more interested to see if their will be some kind of official announcement from the 2 companies. Perhaps there never will be. "

Since you didn't really provide any new information, you could have really just used one of the many existing threads on the subject to "update" us on literally "nothing".


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

What exactly is the problem with Puerto Rico ???


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> I hear ya, I would love to hear about a Series3 DirecTiVo, trust me, I'm a huge TiVo fan.
> 
> I wish the HR20 was still the piece of crap it was when it came out, and DirecTV was experiencing huge loss of subscribers because if it. But since that's not the case, I just can't see it happening. They've spent way to much money.
> 
> I think TiVo should try to 'sell' them on going back to the OLD days of DirecTiVo. TIVO sells it, TiVo makes it, TiVo supports it. You want TiVo and directv? You pay TiVo $12.95/mo and DirecTV for the service. Then TiVo kicks up a % to DirecTV. Then DirecTV can still advertise and push their own cheaper DVR and TiVo fans can buy a TiVo.


Yes, your suggestion makes too much sense, so that's bound to turn off people for some reason. Why not have the best of both worlds - if Tivo wants to build, market, and support it, you would think they could come to some kind of revenue sharing stream where they and we as customers could benefit. At the same time, D* could continue marketing their house-brand dvrs for the masses that don't care about the Tivo.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> What exactly is the problem with Puerto Rico ???


According to the article, I believe that Liberty owns the cable company (or a mjority of it/them) and this would become a monopoly.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Yes, your suggestion makes too much sense, so that's bound to turn off people for some reason. Why not have the best of both worlds - if Tivo wants to build, market, and support it, you would think they could come to some kind of revenue sharing stream where they and we as customers could benefit. At the same time, D* could continue marketing their house-brand dvrs for the masses that don't care about the Tivo.


What you don't seem to understand is there is nothing in it for DirecTV. They are not losing customers because they don't have Tivo. There is ZERO incentive to try to make a deal with Tivo. None. Period.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Ummm, the official announcement was over 3 years ago. Tivo will no longer develop new receivers for DirecTV. Done deal. It's over.
> 
> Tivo however still supports the stock of DirecTivo's that are out there with bug fixes and updates. That support contract runs for a couple more years and I'm sure will be renewed. So if a renewal of a support contract constitutes a "new" relationship between Tivo and DirecTV then there you have it.


Yes, one could assume that this is a 'done deal' as you suggest. However, keep in mind that DirecTV and Tivo have in fact signed a renewal contract in that time. Why - my guess is because D* didn't want to be sued by Tivo like E* had been, but I don't know that for sure.

The other thing to remember is the our DTivos are actually being updated this month with some new features. This was certainly not planned 3 years ago. Yogi Berra used to have some saying I think about 'it's not over 'til its over' or something like that. So, until I see some official announcement to the contrary, I will maintain an interest (and hope).


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> What you don't seem to understand is there is nothing in it for DirecTV. They are not losing customers because they don't have Tivo. There is ZERO incentive to try to make a deal with Tivo. None. Period.


That of course is just absolutely not true. You all talk about the growth that D* is having - and there is no doubt about it, but what I think you miss is how much more would they be growing if they had both dvrs?

And of course, there are many Tivo users like myself that have already or soon will follow Tivo instead of D*. Are we in big numbers? No I doubt it very strongly. But I can tell you that I have already convinced 2 folks in my office to not use DirecTV. I had been responsible for 9 DTivos in the past - all customers that D* would not have gotten if it had not been for me.

So, the reality is they are losing customers and/or not gaining them as fast if they had 2 products or allowed both products. I admit they are very small numbers, but they are still there nevertheless.

And of course one could come up with several different scenarios - some already put forth in this thread - in which the customers and both companies could benefit.

This appears to me to be much more then $. I think it's more about controlling the customer. DirecTV has become somewhat of a bully in the last couple years. I think they are taking the stance that they want to own the customers. Only time will tell if that strategy will work.


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

RS4 said:


> ... But I can tell you that I have already convinced 2 folks in my office to not use DirecTV...


So you're convincing people not to use DirecTV based on your unfounded opinion that the HR2x is bad??? Unless something has changed, you've still NEVER EVEN USED ONE! I wonder if these people you're talking to realize that you have absolutely no basis for your opinion...


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

badmonkey said:


> So you're convincing people not to use DirecTV based on your unfounded opinion that the HR2x is bad??? Unless something has changed, you've still NEVER EVEN USED ONE! I wonder if these people you're talking to realize that you have absolutely no basis for your opinion...


Tell ya what... you give me the $480 + the lease fee and I will be glad to try it out in my home for 30 days. I don't even need the new satellite dish and mpeg4.

Isn't it amazing that people make up their minds about something without even trying it? Just like the raving reviews that folks are giving to the OTA HR21 addition. Have any of them actually tried it? Heck no, most of them have not even seen it, but yet they're falling all over each other in admiration of what a fine product that D* has put out. What does some one on here say about lemmings...? Hmm..


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## MurrayW (Aug 28, 2005)

RS4 said:


> ...Yogi Bear used to have some saying I think about 'it's not over 'til its over' or something like that. So, until I see some official announcement to the contrary, I will maintain an interest (and hope).


I think you have your Yogi's confused. Although Yogi Bear was "smarter than the average bear", it was Yogi Berra who is attributed with that quote.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

MurrayW said:


> I think you have your Yogi's confused. Although Yogi Bear was "smarter than the average bear", it was Yogi Berra who is attributed with that quote.


Oh yeah... I knew it was Yogi somebody or other.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

shibby191 said:


> What you don't seem to understand is there is nothing in it for DirecTV. They are not losing customers because they don't have Tivo.


Actually they are. I know this for a fact.  Just not enough of them that they have to care about it right now.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

DIRECTV has stated that they have just under 40,000,000 recievers in use. They sold about 200,000 HR-10's.

That's not 5%, that's 0.5% of the receivers in use. At one time there was 1 HR10 for every 200 receivers in the field.

Here is what that looks like graphically:

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See the brown dot? That's what 1 HR10 for every 200 receivers looks like. 1 in 200 is so small it makes your eyes hurt trying to find it.

We can only guess how many HR10's are left today. Half?

Now DIRECTV's first priority in replacing HR10s is LA, then NASCAR, then MLB EI, then NFL ST, etc.

Over the coming months, DIRECTV has stated all HD MPEG2 receivers will be upgraded.

Instead of going back to TiVO, DIRECTV bought out the ReplayTV patents and their cross agreement they had with TiVo.

Here are all of the links:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=942508&postcount=14

So our only proof of a future DIRECTV-TiVo agreement is that they have said nothing about a future agreement?

DIRECTV has also said nothing about a future agreement with Nestle. Does that mean that a chocolate DVR must be in the works?

- Craig


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

milominderbinder said:


> DIRECTV has stated that they have just under 40,000,000 recievers in use. They sold about 200,000 HR-10's.
> 
> That's not 5%, that's 0.5% of the receivers in use. At one time there was 1 HR10 for every 200 receivers in the field.
> 
> ...


Let's see now. .5% of HR10 receivers out there based on the rest of them HR20/21 receivers. Why is that?..................

Because the HR10 can't receive the new channels AND DirecTV is KILLING all the MPEG2 HD feeds this year. GEE I wonder why they're so many HR2X series out there? Bad example. The numbers are high for the HR2X simply because it's the ONLY DVR that can pick it up.

Now, just think about this for a minute. What if the HR10-250 was in fact an MPEG4 capable receiver. What would the numbers be now? Also, DirecTV really had no interest of doing anything with the advancement of the TiVo software like broadband connection or MRV. They just hemmed and hawwed about it saying we'll do this and that and never did. Things like the USB ports.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> But I can tell you that I have already convinced 2 folks in my office to not use DirecTV. I had been responsible for 9 DTivos in the past - all customers that D* would not have gotten if it had not been for me.
> 
> So, the reality is they are losing customers and/or not gaining them as fast if they had 2 products or allowed both products. I admit they are very small numbers, but they are still there nevertheless.


Well I took 5 Tivo's from Cable out of service this week alone to DirecTv from family members. Also 2 DishNetwork people last week as well  

Most cable/Tivo people who come and visit are VERY intrigued by my HR20. Everyone as questions, pricing and want's a demo.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> That of course is just absolutely not true. You all talk about the growth that D* is having - and there is no doubt about it, but what I think you miss is how much more would they be growing if they had both dvrs?
> 
> And of course, there are many Tivo users like myself that have already or soon will follow Tivo instead of D*. Are we in big numbers? No I doubt it very strongly. But I can tell you that I have already convinced 2 folks in my office to not use DirecTV. I had been responsible for 9 DTivos in the past - all customers that D* would not have gotten if it had not been for me.
> 
> ...


Serious question. Does Liberty have a prior relationship with Tivo or Tivo ties?

If so, maybe there is a very, very small bit of hope for a dual platform but I doubt it.

If not, then move on please. Again after all the money D* has dumped into this and as good as the HR20/21 is now(in spite of what you think) we will probably NEVER see a D* Tivo again.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

gio1269 said:


> Serious question. Does Liberty have a prior relationship with Tivo or Tivo ties?


At one time, and it might still be the case, Liberty Media was a large investor in TiVo.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

With the retail price as of 1/10/08 of the HR21(20) dropped to $199 - $100 rebate for most everyone for a net price of $99 there is no way TiVo can make a product that enough people would buy and be able to make any money. I'd guess that by the end of the year the HR2? will probably be $99 SRP. Soon you'll probably see the end of the non-HD DVR (R15/R16) and all D* will be selling will be $99 HD DVR's. Unfortunately TiVo can't compete with that commodity type of pricing. Considering an HD receiver (non-DVR) and a DVR (non-HD) are $99 why not only sell 1 advanced receiver (HR2?) and 1 standard receiver like the D12. With very few exceptions even without an HD TV you can still use the HD DVR. So now TiVo comes in with a $500 or $400 or even $300 HD-DVR MPEG 4 box vs the $99 (or $zero$) DirecTV HDDVR. Seriously, how many could they possible sell. Like it or not, TiVo's D* market is gone due to the commodity pricing of the HR2? series. Sadly. R.I.P. D*TiVo.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> The other thing to remember is the our DTivos are actually being updated this month with some new features.


In other words, fix some of the bugs the last release introduced and add some more (bugs).


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

Mark Lopez said:


> In other words, fix some of the bugs the last release introduced and add some more (bugs).


Does that statement apply to the HR20/21 as well? How many revisions has that platform had since its introduction?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

incog-neato said:


> With the retail price as of 1/10/08 of the HR21(20) dropped to $199 - $100 rebate for most everyone for a net price of $99 there is no way TiVo can make a product that enough people would buy and be able to make any money. I'd guess that by the end of the year the HR2? will probably be $99 SRP. Soon you'll probably see the end of the non-HD DVR (R15/R16) and all D* will be selling will be $99 HD DVR's. Unfortunately TiVo can't compete with that commodity type of pricing. Considering an HD receiver (non-DVR) and a DVR (non-HD) are $99 why not only sell 1 advanced receiver (HR2?) and 1 standard receiver like the D12. With very few exceptions even without an HD TV you can still use the HD DVR. So now TiVo comes in with a $500 or $400 or even $300 HD-DVR MPEG 4 box vs the $99 (or $zero$) DirecTV HDDVR. Seriously, how many could they possible sell. Like it or not, TiVo's D* market is gone due to the commodity pricing of the HR2? series. Sadly. R.I.P. D*TiVo.


reality like this is so lost on people who want to continue to believe that Tivo wants to make a new dvr for Directv.

wasn't it just earlier this week that the Tivo CEO said they want to get away from the hardware business and just do Tivo software everywhere?

and how many new Directv subscribers will call Tivo for a box instead of Directv?


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

20TIL6 said:


> Does that statement apply to the HR20/21 as well? How many revisions has that platform had since its introduction?


Probably the biggest improvement was not in software but in going from 9 to 87 HD channels. Also the price cut to $199 with the $100 rebate is pretty major as well.

As to revisions, DIRECT averages about one test release (CE) a week and a national release about every 6 weeks. Here are some of the biggest improvements.

Legend
Blue - Links to Release notes.
*Brown*- Improvement not requested in Wish List.
*Green* - Wish List item that is now completed.

Version 0xEB (11/07/2006): 
• *eSATA -Enable consumer installable Hard Drive Expansion Device*

Version 0xEF (*11/15/2006*): *NR*
• *Jump to marked points in playback (End Points and TickMarks) *
• *4x FF mode - Enable Faster Fast Forward*

Version 0x104 (12/06/2006):
• *Enable "Local Off-Air" (Over The Air) ATSC Programming p. 76 of the manual* 
• *History feature will now contain updated information on "why" things occurred*

Version 0x108 (12/12/2006): _Santa *CE*_
• *Media Share-ability to load/play multimedia files from an external source* 
• *soft buffering - putting the last couple of minutes of one show and the first couple of minutes of a second show into both recordings if shows are recorded back-to-back on the same channel.*

Version 0x11f (01/28/2007): _Benz *CE*_
• *Speed up channel listing by clicking INFO while channel number is highlighted (10 times faster)*

Version 0x134 (02/28/2007):
• _*GameLounge support*_
• *GUIDE button "displays the Guide" first and Channel Categories second*
• *USB RS-232 Serial Control (for advanced home theater/control setups)*

Version 0x13e (03/21/2007):
• *Enable "Sound Effects" as shows in the photo on p. 29 of the manual*
• _*Save Guide/Interactive data on Hard Disk for easy recovery after reset*_
• *The option to turn off Guide/List/Menu Animation for better Ease of Use & response* 
• *The option to have My Playlist remember how I would like to view the list (chronological, alphabetical, etc.)*
• *Treat words like "The" and "A" at the beginning of a title as optional during a search*

Version 0x15c (05/16/2007):
• *Keyword Search Speed greatly improved*

Version 0x168 (06/14/2007):
• *Scrolling option (Animation) now defaults OFF! Option in normal setup screens*
• *Guide now defaults to Guide! Option now in normal setup screens*
• *Added group-play to play all programs in a group one after the other*
• *Added display of conflicting programs in the To Do List*

Version 0x17E (07/18/2007):
_• *Direct channel tune no longer needs ENTER*
• *Fast Forward correction to compensate user response time when pressing PLAY key*
• *HD Icon on programs in all lists (e.g. search results)*
• *"TIPs" highlighted with yellow text (onscreen help)*_
_• *Autorecord keywords with special characters: i.e., Americas will record matches to America's*_
_• *Playback of currrently recording show is paused if user toggles to live and back (SLB)*_
_• *Key press robustness to prevent key bounce causing unintended extra keypresses.*_

Version 0x18a (08/24/2007):
_• *Added DELETE option to Playlist, ToDo List, Recent Searches*_
_• *Search Results always placing HD ahead of SD*_
_• *Playback recordings, when system starts without a SAT feed present.*
• *Added Resume/Start Over options for playback of recordings *_

Version 0x1B4 (10/30/2007):
_• *History list shows conflicting program*
• *DIRECTV on Demand (Video on Demand)*
• *Left arrow mimics "BACK" when practical *
• *Ability to hide SD channels if duplicate HD channel with same number exists *
• *Remote Booking - Schedule a recording from your PC *
• *Third Favorites List: Channels I Get*

_
Version 0x1BE (11/09/2007):
_• *Record Defaults accessible from Record Menu*_

CE: 10 Version 0x1EA (1/9/2008):
_• *30 Second Skip*_
_• *Adult Channel Blocking - removes them from Guide and search results *_
_• *PAUSE is fixed (works in all modes, allows DLB workaround) *_
_• *Mediashare supports Video now in addition to photos and music *_
_• *Keyword searching, new keywords AALL, AANY, NNOT, VOD, HDTV *_
_• *Shortcut for Closed Caption On/Off *_
_• *Prioritizer works even when no upcoming episodes are scheduled *_
_• *Guide: Channel Color shadding to represent subscribed vs unsubscribed channels *_

- Craig


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## DAVIDGR (Oct 26, 2002)

milominderbinder said:


> As to revisions, DIRECT averages about one test release (CE) a week and a national release about every 6 weeks. Here are some of the biggest improvements......


What a useful post Milo! Thanks for the info!!!!


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

20TIL6 said:


> At one time, and it might still be the case, Liberty Media was a large investor in TiVo.


Ahh....OK. But if you are buying a company that has poured millions and millions into a DVR that is keep subs and or increasing them, would you scrap all those dollars to get Tivo back on board and maybe NOT increase sales?

I can't tell you how many people I know DON"T have a DVR. So when they get a Comcrap or a HR20/21 they are so happy with it.

So it's only real hard Tivo die hards. Take those numbers out and it's probably not worth it.

Also "tivo" has no become a generic word for recording with a DVR. I still use the term with the HR20.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

gio1269 said:


> Ahh....OK. But if you are buying a company that has poured millions and millions into a DVR that is keep subs and or increasing them, would you scrap all those dollars to get Tivo back on board and maybe NOT increase sales?
> 
> I can't tell you how many people I know DON"T have a DVR. So when they get a Comcrap or a HR20/21 they are so happy with it.
> 
> ...


I'm a different breed of a person. Whether I owned a TiVo or not, there are some things I still find inferior in the DirecTV's brand of DVR. You're statement is not all that accurate.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

gio1269 said:


> Ahh....OK. But if you are buying a company that has poured millions and millions into a DVR that is keep subs and or increasing them, would you scrap all those dollars to get Tivo back on board and maybe NOT increase sales?
> 
> I can't tell you how many people I know DON"T have a DVR. So when they get a Comcrap or a HR20/21 they are so happy with it.
> 
> ...


I don't recall anyone saying anything about D* scrapping anything. I could care less what the rest of you think about the HR20, or what D* does with it. What bothers me is that D* has taken away the Tivo interface.

I believe there are plenty of other people out there like me - they would stay with D* if we had a Tivo box or a DTivo box. I can think of several ways where that scenario could be profitable for both companies and benefit the customers. There are too many ifs and ands to get into details, but there are plenty of ways to make this work if D* and Tivo wanted to.

And that is the real question - do they want it to work? We have not seen anything officially from either company - only hints in both directions. Until I see something official, you guys put up all the numbers you want, speculate all you want, rant and rave about what an awesome product the HR20/21 is all you want, but I'll be looking for the press releases for the final word!!


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

gio1269 said:


> Ahh....OK. But if you are buying a company that has poured millions and millions into a DVR that is keep subs and or increasing them, would you scrap all those dollars to get Tivo back on board and maybe NOT increase sales?
> 
> I can't tell you how many people I know DON"T have a DVR. So when they get a Comcrap or a HR20/21 they are so happy with it.
> 
> ...


I was just answering your question about ties between Liberty Media and TiVo.

I don't care what DTV or Liberty does at this point. I dropped DTV so I could still have TiVo. And any cablecard supporting provider will most likely have me as a customer for as long as they continue to do so. When I signed up with DTV, the recievers were $700 and the guy from Murphy Brown was doing the commercials. My how that company has changed.

With the E* litigation, the E* STB spinoff company, AT&T's interest in E*, FiOS support of TiVo, the Comcast/TiVo, the Cox/TiVo, and cable's Tru2Way initiative, I think it's possible that DTV will be the ONLY game in town WITHOUT TiVo. And that's OK with me because like I said, DTV no longer gets my money.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> I don't recall anyone saying anything about D* scrapping anything. I could care less what the rest of you think about the HR20, or what D* does with it. What bothers me is that D* has taken away the Tivo interface.
> 
> I believe there are plenty of other people out there like me - they would stay with D* if we had a Tivo box or a DTivo box. I can think of several ways where that scenario could be profitable for both companies and benefit the customers. There are too many ifs and ands to get into details, but there are plenty of ways to make this work if D* and Tivo wanted to.
> 
> And that is the real question - do they want it to work? We have not seen anything officially from either company - only hints in both directions. Until I see something official, you guys put up all the numbers you want, speculate all you want, rant and rave about what an awesome product the HR20/21 is all you want, but I'll be looking for the press releases for the final word!!


New announcement - HDPC-20 - No TIVO interface
New Announcement - HR21-PRO - No TIVO interface
New Announcement - View HR20/21 content on your PC
New ability - VOD - No Tivo interface

Seems "unofficially" TIVO is taking the back seat on the bus, the only mention of TIVO at CES was for remote booking and that mentioned it will be available at a later date, not when it releases for the HR20/21. Since CES is the major show for the year for new technology there is a strong possiblity that it should have been mentioned at the booth if there was anything rumored for 2008 electronics season


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

20TIL6 said:


> I was just answering your question about ties between Liberty Media and TiVo.
> 
> I don't care what DTV or Liberty does at this point. I dropped DTV so I could still have TiVo. And any cablecard supporting provider will most likely have me as a customer for as long as they continue to do so. When I signed up with DTV, the recievers were $700 and the guy from Murphy Brown was doing the commercials. My how that company has changed.
> 
> With the E* litigation, the E* STB spinoff company, AT&T's interest in E*, FiOS support of TiVo, the Comcast/TiVo, the Cox/TiVo, and cable's Tru2Way initiative, I think it's possible that DTV will be the ONLY game in town WITHOUT TiVo. And that's OK with me because like I said, DTV no longer gets my money.


would not bet to much on the E* interest by AT&T since they are starting their Uverse rollout, suspect the interest in E* is just for the technology in their DVR's - as far UVerse goes, does not matter if they use a TIVO interface or a generic interface, right now they will only limit a customer to a single DVR on the connection


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Directv has chosen to lose money on pushing their DVR. They've accomplished that, it's now going to be the dominant Directv DVR.
But the bottom line for Directv is the number of subscribers. There are still 100-200,000 HDtivos out there and 2,350,000 Directivo subscribers. Even if they only lose a couple hundred thousand of them by not allowing a Tivo option, why do it? It seems perfectly logical to think that Malone might have asked the same question.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Cudahy said:


> Directv has chosen to lose money on pushing their DVR. They've accomplished that, it's now going to be the dominant Directv DVR.
> But the bottom line for Directv is the number of subscribers. There are still 100-200,000 HDtivos out there and 2,350,000 Directivo subscribers. Even if they only lose a couple hundred thousand of them by not allowing a Tivo option, why do it? It seems perfectly logical to think that Malone might have asked the same question.


They haven't had a new DirecTiVo in 2 years and yet they continue to add net subscribers. It is wishful thinking by TiVo fans that DirecTV is going to lose money on this deal. So far they have only made money.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cudahy said:


> Directv has chosen to lose money on pushing their DVR. They've accomplished that, it's now going to be the dominant Directv DVR.
> But the bottom line for Directv is the number of subscribers. There are still 100-200,000 HDtivos out there and 2,350,000 Directivo subscribers. Even if they only lose a couple hundred thousand of them by not allowing a Tivo option, why do it? It seems perfectly logical to think that Malone might have asked the same question.


They aren't losing subscribers. It's been 3 years since the last SD DirecTivo was made, nearly 2 for the HD version. They are signing up more net subscribers now then they have in a while. DirecTV doesn't need Tivo. That is pretty obvious no matter how much you want it to not be the case.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Want to know why you are not seeing any DIRECTV commercials?

Backlog. 

You will know the backlog is manageable again when you see Bouncy again. 

- Craig


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Scott D said:


> I'm a different breed of a person. Whether I owned a TiVo or not, there are some things I still find inferior in the DirecTV's brand of DVR. You're statement is not all that accurate.


Because you used a Tivo. I am talking about people who NEVER used a DVR which is most D*/Cable customers. They use ANT DVR or the first time and the are happy. If you only ever used the HR20/21 as they are now you would think it's the best since sliced white bread.

Yes, I thought this when I got my first Tivo almost 5 yrs ago. I still love it, but it's a DVR. That's it to me. A great one in the past for D*. But I have come to like the HR20/21 overall from a GUI point. I do miss a few things that Tivo had which in some peoples mind still make it better (D* Tivo that is.)
The main thing that keeps it better IMO is:

DLB
Wish list
Suggestions
Otherwise I feel the HR20/21 is better overall. For me if DLB and Wish list was added then that would be it!

Yes, we all are different. Nothing wrong with that.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

RS4 said:


> I know some of us are waiting to see what happens with the Tivo relationship after Liberty takes over DirecTV.
> 
> Here is a link to skyreport: http://www.skyreport.com/


Thanks RS4. Interesting times ahead.


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## HDTV_Duffus (Nov 15, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> I am just asking how the take over by Liberty... has ANY impact on the TiVo aspects of the service.
> As you state.. it "may definitely affect a bunch of us Tivo users "
> 
> Please explain HOW... what concrete evidence do you have, that the Liberty take over will have any impact on the aspect of the TiVo, Inc platform being part of the DirecTV lineup again?
> ...


GEEZZZZ, Why has this site become predominantly a childish whine fest?!? A poster delivers information that might be of interest to TiVO owners and immediately the frustrations and hard feelings from previous arguments and posts rain down!!!

I'm clearly and outsider here (so let the flaming begin!) but this site has always been my #1 resource for DIRECTV and TiVo information. Now it's basically a ***** fest! Impossible to glean significant information without having to weed through one stupid argument after another! It's like the bullies on the playground, I group makes says the sky is blue and immediately a fight breaks out because the other group thinks the sky is grey.

Give it a break......

Thanks for all the previous help, but I won't be back anytime soon to participate in the childish crap - and yes I do understand how unimportant that is to most on this site..........


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

HDTV_Duffus said:


> GEEZZZZ, Why has this site become predominantly a childish whine fest?!? A poster delivers information that might be of interest to TiVO owners and immediately the frustrations and hard feelings from previous arguments and posts rain down!!!
> 
> I'm clearly and outsider here (so let the flaming begin!) but this site has always been my #1 resource for DIRECTV and TiVo information. Now it's basically a ***** fest! Impossible to glean significant information without having to weed through one stupid argument after another! It's like the bullies on the playground, I group makes says the sky is blue and immediately a fight breaks out because the other group thinks the sky is grey.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that this forum hasn't been a source of DirecTV information for a couple years now. Only time anything about DirecTV is posted (such as quarterly conference calls whichused to be play by play here) is when someone from another forum posts.

If you want good DirecTV information TCF isn't the place. You'll need to go to DBSTalk, Satguys or AVS.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> They aren't losing subscribers. It's been 3 years since the last SD DirecTivo was made, nearly 2 for the HD version. They are signing up more net subscribers now then they have in a while. DirecTV doesn't need Tivo. That is pretty obvious no matter how much you want it to not be the case.


Some investment analysts think that D* will have one more good year and then slump off. Why - phone company video competition. They see D* growing at the current or slightly reduced rates this year and then taper off taking more then a year to get 400,000 customers reaching 17.82 million sometime in 2010 from 16.56 million in the 3rd quarter of this year.

Hmm, maybe they ought to think twice about all of those customers or potential customers they are alienating by their lack of choice in products and the terms and conditions they impose.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Hmm, maybe they ought to think twice about all of those customers or potential customers they are alienating by their lack of choice in products and the terms and conditions they impose.


The only customers they are "alienating" are people like you and a few thousand others on this forum who can't live without Tivo (and there is nothing wrong with that view). The other 99% of the public doesn't care (and most wouldn't know a "real" Tivo vs. any other DVR if it bit them).

That's why your constant talk about how Tivo is better and DirecTV is now offering a substandard DVR. Even if true it just doesn't matter if it's good enough and most people will never know that Tivo is "better". Tens of millions of people that use whatever cable DVR they are given don't know the difference either and they are doing just fine as well. Same for Dish network.

A few thousand people lost just gets caught up in the normal churn, which by the way is at historic lows now. DirecTV isn't going to go thru the expense of millions of dollars to satisfy a few thousand hard core Tivo enthusiasts. It's just not worth it.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> The only customers they are "alienating" are people like you and a few thousand others on this forum who can't live without Tivo (and there is nothing wrong with that view). The other 99% of the public doesn't care (and most wouldn't know a "real" Tivo vs. any other DVR if it bit them).
> 
> That's why your constant talk about how Tivo is better and DirecTV is now offering a substandard DVR. Even if true it just doesn't matter if it's good enough and most people will never know that Tivo is "better". Tens of millions of people that use whatever cable DVR they are given don't know the difference either and they are doing just fine as well. Same for Dish network.
> 
> A few thousand people lost just gets caught up in the normal churn, which by the way is at historic lows now. DirecTV isn't going to go thru the expense of millions of dollars to satisfy a few thousand hard core Tivo enthusiasts. It's just not worth it.


The HR2X is really not that good. Dumb software programming. I knew I would cancel DTV if they eliminated TiVo. I just gave them a fair shot and it cost me a 2 year deal with them. I wonder why?? I feel the way they have the DVR set up is the way it will be. Things like to 50 SL limit and the guide to name a few. DTV has no interest of changing it for if they did, some of the items would be fixed by now. They're not. They haven't even been touched if not considered. The only thing that is getting fixed is the stuff that causes lockups or shutdowns requiring reboots. Things like that. Not very many improvements that change the way their DVR does business. I am not talking about the stuff that got added into the mix. I'm talking about the stuff it started out with. No change in that area except they fixed the bugs in it so that it won't error out. Same format, same everything. They didn't make it better in what it already had and improve it to be better than what it was when they started out. It's still the same thing. Same layout, same design.

I tend to agree that TiVo won't be coming back to DTV ever. DTV won't let TiVo come back even if TiVo wanted to. I feel that DTV doesn't want the competition between their DVR and TiVo's. If there was competition, the scales might swing more towards the TiVo side.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> The HR2X is really not that good. Dumb software programming. I knew I would cancel DTV if they eliminated TiVo. I just gave them a fair shot and it cost me a 2 year deal with them. I wonder why?? I feel the way they have the DVR set up is the way it will be. Things like to 50 SL limit and the guide to name a few. DTV has no interest of changing it for if they did, some of the items would be fixed by now. They're not. They haven't even been touched if not considered. The only thing that is getting fixed is the stuff that causes lockups or shutdowns requiring reboots. Things like that. Not very many improvements that change the way their DVR does business. I am not talking about the stuff that got added into the mix. I'm talking about the stuff it started out with. No change in that area except they fixed the bugs in it so that it won't error out. Same format, same everything. They didn't make it better in what it already had and improve it to be better than what it was when they started out. It's still the same thing. Same layout, same design.


Perhaps you need to hang out at DBSTalk or Satguys more often. The HR20 has gone thru 2 major GUI updates over the past year and a half including the one just now rolling out as a national release.

And whether you think it's dumb programming or not, it records what you tell it to. That's the core thing a DVR does. Not sure what else you are looking for.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

gio1269 said:


> Because you used a Tivo. I am talking about people who NEVER used a DVR which is most D*/Cable customers. They use ANT DVR or the first time and the are happy. If you only ever used the HR20/21 as they are now you would think it's the best since sliced white bread.
> 
> Yes, I thought this when I got my first Tivo almost 5 yrs ago. I still love it, but it's a DVR. That's it to me. A great one in the past for D*. But I have come to like the HR20/21 overall from a GUI point. I do miss a few things that Tivo had which in some peoples mind still make it better (D* Tivo that is.)
> The main thing that keeps it better IMO is:
> ...


I understand you but as I said. I'm a diierent breed!

It doesn't matter if I used a TiVo or not. I look at the system as a complete system. I want to know how everything works in it. True, I do use TiVo's, and, at first, the HR20 was looking like it would have been decent until I started digging deeper into the menus and the such. Came to find out it wasn't as good as I thought. A few dumb programming and a bad unorganized remote. Why would you put the pause button on the left side and make it small? If any button I would use to be the pause, I choose the play button. It's centered and it's big!


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Scott D said:


> ....a bad unorganized remote. Why would you put the pause button on the left side and make it small? If any button I would use to be the pause, I choose the play button. It's centered and it's big!


Because they are using the original remote design....

The one that was built before the DVR came into play.
This remote was designed to be a typical "3rd party" universal remote to control a VCR/DVD player, and your TV with your DirecTV receiver.

It was not designed with the DVR in mind first.

To this day, I still think the TiVo peanut is the best DVR remote designed...
I have gotten used to RC series of remotes, but there are still times...

Hopefully one of these days they will re-design or contract out to build a new remote, with the DVR in mind first.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

gio1269 said:


> ...I do miss a few things that Tivo had which in some peoples mind still make it better (D* Tivo that is.)
> The main thing that keeps it better IMO is:
> 
> DLB
> ...


You are going to love the next national release.

With a key fix coming in the next national release, we finally have a one click toggle between two games. It is not the same as TiVo DLB but is usable. It is 4 clicks to set up instead of 2 and 4 clicks when you are done instead of none.

As to suggestions...Not only will you get suggestions but you will get them from your PC anytime, any place. And with remote booking, you will see a movie or game coming up and just click to set up your HD DVR.

The part that many hated about the Wishlists was that it clogged up your recorder with things you didn't want. Now you control what it records for you.

From the HD DVR FAQ:

_Is there a way to get Dual Live Buffers (Watch two live programs at once)?
_→ DLB Workaround

_Is there an easy way to get started?_
→ 5-Minute Quick Start ● Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks

_What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
→ TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!

There are other new features that need little explanation:

● *30 Second Skip*: You will now have the choice between 30s SKIP or SLIP. To enable: Keyword Search 30SKIP or 30SLIP
● Triple Tap Lookup for DoD (VOD): When on a DoD page, you can use the # keys on your remote to enter letters in "cellphone/SMS" style. AKA: Hit #2 Three times to get a C
● _*Adult Channel Hiding*_: This is an update parental control that is currently on the R15. When you enable this, it completely REMOVES the adult rated channels from the listings, almost as if they don't exist.
● IP Callback: The ethernet/internet connection, will now be used for communication back to DirecTV for: PPV purchases, GameLounge, and other items. *No phone line is required!*
● Mediashare Video Support: *You can now access jpegs, MP3's, and video files from your PC*.
● Shortcut for _*Closed Caption On/Off - Only 2 clicks now*_!
● Edit Series Link options when no episodes are found

Maybe more important than any of these is probably the fact that DIRECTV is up to 87 HD Channels. Did I mention the price just came down $100?

- Craig


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> To this day, I still think the TiVo peanut is the best DVR remote designed...
> I have gotten used to RC series of remotes, but there are still times...


Wait, did Earl just say something about TiVo is better than the HR20??? 





milominderbinder said:


> ● _*Adult Channel Hiding*_: This is an update parental control that is currently on the R15. When you enable this, it completely REMOVES the adult rated channels from the listings, almost as if they don't exist.


That still falls WAAAAY short of TiVo's Kidzone. Kidzone is the best parental control feature I've seen on ANY DVR.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Wait, did Earl just say something about TiVo is better than the HR20???


I have listed several things that I think the TiVo still does better then the DVR+ platform.

Even though a lot of people try to portray me as a TiVo hater.... simply isn't true.

TiVo is/was a fantastic platform... and was very unique for it's time.
The thing is... they are no longer the only game in town.

I fully believe in December of 2009, when there are all the "decade" in review shows/articles... TiVo will go down as probably the #1 TV inovation product of the decade...

It ushered in the main stream the concept of the DVR (even though there was replay before it).....


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> I have listed several things that I think the TiVo still does better then the DVR+ platform.
> 
> Even though a lot of people try to portray me as a TiVo hater.... simply isn't true.


You left off my .

I was joking.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> You left off my .
> 
> I was joking.


I knew you were...

But just wanted to add to the point, that I am not a TiVo hater.


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