# I need a simple, clear, upgrade guide...



## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

I'm about to replace my Tivo drive (a single 120 GB Samsung) with a WD green power 500 GB drive and need to preserve as much as possible, including things like endpad, TivoWeb, and all my existing recordings.

Last time I upgraded (from a basic two-drive unmodded Tivo) I used the Hinsdale guide. Is there a modern equivalent that spells out every step, including stuff like updating the kernel to handle LBA48, how to preserve recordings, etc, or is the Hinsdale guide still the best option?

I've seen a couple of posts here that contain a lot of useful information, but I was hoping to find a very simple step-by-step guide that would cover all the gottchas. I've also seen Steve Conrad's 'large disk upgrade' stuff on his website, but it's four years old and doesn't address the issue of preserving recordings.

Is there such a document?

Thanks,

Mike


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

a) get a compatible SATA converter - these seem to work OK.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=280219382184

b) determine whether you will have a free partition on the A drive. I suspect not if you went from a 2 drive to a single drive setup and kept your recordings.

c) If you have a free partition then Boot from the LBA48 Boot CD, otherwise boot from the MFSLive Beta 3 CD

Assuming your CDROM is /dev/hda, your source is /dev/hdb and your target is /dev/hdc issue one of the following commands

_(laba48 boot CD)_
*mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdb | mfsrestore -s 500 -r4 -xzpi - /dev/hdc*

_(MFSLive Beta CD)_
*backup -Tao - /dev/hdb | restore -s 500 -r4 -fzpi - /dev/hdc*

d) if you used the MFSLive CD, reboot from the LBA48 Boot CD

e) run copykern, choosing kernel option 1

f) Enjoy!


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks for your help. That looks simple enough, but the job is proving to be a nightmare....

Maybe not surprisingly my PATA-SATA converter won't work on a Promise IDE controller card - that would have been the minimally invasive solution. Instead, I've had to eviscerate my PC to get the two drives connected. Who on earth thought PATA cables were a good idea? They seem designed with the intent of always being a couple of inches shorter than they need to be. 

Anyway, I now have the drives connected and they're being recognised OK by the BIOS and by the LBA48 boot disk. The original Tivo drive is also recognised when I do a mfsinfo. It's currently using six partitions and says it can be expanded a further three times, so I guess that I probably didn't keep my recordings through the last upgrade. 

I am right in thinking I can upgrade using the LBA48 boot disk with that number of partitions, aren't I?

My next problem is.... I don't have a pipe character. Well actually I have a key that's engraved with a pipe (as well as the broken vertical line one), but neither produces a pipe.

The broken bar (shifted '\') actually gives a '>' and the 'pipe' to the left of the '1' key gives a tilde instead.

I'm guessing that it's necessary to tell the LBA48 boot CD to configure its keymap for a UK keyboard, but I haven't a clue how to do it. I have searched for other UK Tivo upgraders with the same problem but, rather surprisingly, couldn't find any posts on the subject. I've also tried loads of different key combinations, but can't find pipe anywhere.

HELP !!!!


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> but can't find pipe anywhere


I can't remember exactly where it is but it is definitely there. A long time ago when I did my last upgrade I had the same problem and I just booted into the LBA48 disk and tried every key, shifted and ctrl until I found it then rebooted and went ahead.

I've no doubt that soon someone will be along with the exact answer


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

This may help from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3833814#post3833814



Glesgie said:


> !. the pipe symbol ¦ is shift ~ on my UK keyboard.
> 
> Good Luck


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

RichardJH said:


> This may help from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3833814#post3833814


Thank you!

...and I was sure I'd tried them all...


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

One small step forward now that I know where to find the pipe character, but that's all...

It failed the restore:-


```
Scanning source drive
Source drive size is 30 hrs
     Upgraded to 44 hrs
     Upgraded to 127 hrs
Uncompressed backup size 104198 megabytes
Restore failed.  Backup target not large enough for entire backup by itself
```
Is this because the existing 6 partitions / 'can expand 3 more times' is not enough, and I need to use the MFSLive beta CD?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Heedyheed said:


> One small step forward now that I know where to find the pipe character, but that's all...
> 
> It failed the restore:-
> 
> ...


Yes. There is a maximum of 3 partitions per drive.


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks Blindlemon, that worked a treat using the MFSLive Beta CD.

Some of the guides make the process look unnecessarily complicated, especially given that the whole job boils down to running a couple of commands. 

I only had one more minor problem, and that was because I had my target drive as hda. It was all fine until I tried to use copykern which appears to refuse to talk to hda. After swapping things around to arrange for my new drive to appear as hdc it worked fine. My Tivo now reports four times the capacity it had previously, and all the recordings, settings, hacks, etc are intact.

SWMBO is delighted and passes on her heartfelt thanks. :up: 

I'd already bought a Newlink PATA-SATA adapter before I read your post:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/IDE-SATA-Bi-Directional-Adapter/dp/B000YSMBSW

https://secure.cdlmicro.co.uk/html/show_product.php/pid/191

However, it plugs directly into the IDE socket on the Tivo PCB so I had to to drill out the blanked-off hole on the adapter's IDE plug because the Tivo's socket doesn't have the usual missing pin near the key in the centre of the connector. Bit scary having to do that, but it wasn't too difficult and works fine.



blindlemon said:


> Yes. There is a maximum of 3 partitions per drive.


Presumably that's a maximum of 3 partitions per drive on a two-drive system, or 6 on a single-drive system?

My original single 120 GB drive contained 6 partitions - one of which was zero bytes in size. My new drive ended-up with an identical partition layout with the exception that hda15 is much bigger than it had been on the 120 GB drive.

This is the layout of my new drive:-


```
hda10          512 MB
          hda11        27661 MB
          hda12            4 MB
          hda13        14320 MB
          hda14            0 MB
          hda15       433549 MB
```
The thing is, mfsinfo still says that the new MFS volume may be expanded three more times. I don't understand that. Is this 'expansion limit' of 3 nothing to do with the partitioning of the drive and the availability or otherwise of spare partitions? Also, what are the zero-length and the 4 MB partitions for? Do they result from something I screwed-up when I last upgraded?

Oh, before I forget, I also saw a message along the lines of: _"Using version 1 swap signature to get greater than 128 MB swap size, but the backup looks like a series 1"._ followed by words to the effect that series 1 doesn't support a swap that's larger than 128 MB. I assume this is OK....?

By the way, the WD 500 GB Green Power drive is very, very quiet and feels substantially cooler than the Samsung SP1213N that it replaces. Despite mounting the drive carrier on soft foam, I used to get a deep resonance from the Tivo that sounded like a distant car playing drum 'n' bass at full blast. It was only audible in very quiet surroundings, so I never bothered to try to improve it. I've mounted the WD drive using the same carrier cushioned on foam strips and secured using loose tywraps, and I can't hear it at all.

Thanks again for your help.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Heedyheed said:


> mfsinfo still says that the new MFS volume may be expanded three more times. I don't understand that.


The extra three partitions would be on the "B" drive if you had one 



Heedyheed said:


> I also saw a message along the lines of: _"Using version 1 swap signature to get greater than 128 MB swap size, but the backup looks like a series 1"._ followed by words to the effect that series 1 doesn't support a swap that's larger than 128 MB. I assume this is OK....?


Yes, that's fine as long as you used copykern. If you had been upgrading from a drive > 137gb with the LBA48 kernel already installed you would have had no more to do, as copykern usually sets the swap signature in addition to copying the kernel, but as you needed the new kernel copykern just redid that for you as well.



Heedyheed said:


> By the way, the WD 500 GB Green Power drive is very, very quiet and feels substantially cooler than the Samsung SP1213N that it replaces.


Yes, they do seem well suited to TiVo use as long as you can find a compatible SATA Converter.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Yes, they do seem well suited to TiVo use as long as you can find a compatible SATA Converter.


It seems the process of blindlemon's Road to Damascus like conversion to accepting the qualities of this particular Western Digital drive in a Tivo is nearing completion. But I suspect he still thinks we would be better off with one of his chosen son HA250JC upgrades, even though they are much, much more expensive.

To be fair though I am still running my two HA250JCs successfully without any issue after nearly three and a half years and I wonder if I wouldn't have had a failure by now with a large two drive setup using another make of drive.


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

One supplementary question...

I seem to remember that the Tivo can boot from two partitions so that it has a get out of jail free card if something trashes the primary boot partition.

Does the copykern command update both copies of the kernel, or have I now got one copy that will handle LBA48 and one that won't? 

Thanks,

Mike


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> It seems the process of blindlemon's Road to Damascus like conversion to accepting the qualities of this particular Western Digital drive in a Tivo is nearing completion. But I suspect he still thinks we would be better off with one of his chosen son HA250JC upgrades, even though they are much, much more expensive..


I'm reserving my opinion on the WD Green Power drives for the time being as I have no indication yet how reliable they're going to prove in real-world TiVo use. Yes, they seem very quiet; yes, they seem to run very cool and with little vibration. However, their firmware doesn't seem compatible with all SATA converters and their long-term reliability is as yet unknown.

The HA250JC on the other hand, although expensive by comparison (they cost me significantly more than the 500gb GP drives for a bare drive!) have proven reliability and an excellent track record in TiVos. They also don't need a SATA converter so for some they are still preferable and that's why I'm still stocking (and selling) them.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Heedyheed said:


> One supplementary question...
> 
> I seem to remember that the Tivo can boot from two partitions so that it has a get out of jail free card if something trashes the primary boot partition.
> 
> ...


 Copykern only updates the "live" kernel.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> The HA250JC on the other hand, although expensive by comparison (they cost me significantly more than the 500gb GP drives for a bare drive!) have proven reliability and an excellent track record in TiVos. They also don't need a SATA converter so for some they are still preferable and that's why I'm still stocking (and selling) them.


Do you have any feeling for current failure rate amongst the HA250JCs you supplied around three years ago? Presumably many of your customers are loyal and would come back to you for a replacement if one failed. Of course I suppose some may defect to Mike making it hard to be sure of the actual failure rate. Also how long is your warranty on free reformatting etc? I presume that is only one year and not three years?

Regarding some IDE to SATA converters not being compatible probably that is more an indication of the inadequacy of those particular converters than of the WD drive itself? Do you have a list of converters that you have established will work or indeed a preferred make of IDE to SATA converter?

As long as the Tivo service and these drives survive a couple more years I suspect that will see me out regarding Tivo use. However I still await a successor with as good a set of Wishlist and SP functions and three weeks worth of EPG data. Suggestions are not essential (although would be nice to have) but decent Wishlists and robust SPs are.

I notice BBC policies on the Iplayer are getting slowly more sensible and I have been able to use it to watch the first five episodes of Survivors over the last couple of days, having not got round to setting an SP on my Tivo in time for it to record them.


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

blindlemon said:


> Copykern only updates the "live" kernel.


Ah, so I need to update the other one.

I've seen reference to using the dd command via telnet to copy the live partition onto the backup one.... Is that a safe thing to do and how do I tell which partition is the live one and which is the backup?

Thanks,

Mike


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Heedyheed said:


> Ah, so I need to update the other one.


The other system partition is probably blank anyway. I don't think MFSTools copies it. I would just leave it as it is now, assuming it's working OK


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Do you have any feeling for current failure rate amongst the HA250JCs you supplied around three years ago?


I'd say less than 2% of HA250JC drives have failed (to my knowledge) in the 3+ years I've been supplying them. This is considerably better than any other drive I've supplied, and I've supplied more HA250JCs than any other too.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Do you have a list of converters that you have established will work or indeed a preferred make of IDE to SATA converter?


See the link in my original post. They seem to work fine when they are not faulty. However, I have had a few faulty ones already so QC seems to be poor. Can't complain really though considering the price, and the supplier has treated me fairly too.


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

blindlemon said:


> The other system partition is probably blank anyway. I don't think MFSTools copies it. I would just leave it as it is now, assuming it's working OK


So when one of the drives in my RAID fails, I should leave it until the system stops working. 

Fair enough. In reality I can't imagine using my Tivo for more than three or four years more, and it hasn't needed this feature so far, so the chances are that it will be fine. I still have the old drive anyway, plus at least one backup image on CD.

Thanks for all your help, Blindlemon. It's much appreciated. :up:

Mike


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Heedyheed said:


> So when one of the drives in my RAID fails, I should leave it until the system stops working.
> 
> Fair enough. In reality I can't imagine using my Tivo for more than three or four years more, and it hasn't needed this feature so far, so the chances are that it will be fine. I still have the old drive anyway, plus at least one backup image on CD.
> 
> ...


The alternate partition isn't really a backup. It's only used when you receive an update of the Tivo software - It's applied to the dormant partition and then Tivo is rebooted to use the new software. So unless you get version 2.5.5a downloaded it isn't going to happen. And if you do it's the old kernel so you're stuffed anyway.


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## Heedyheed (Jan 17, 2004)

BrianHughes said:


> The alternate partition isn't really a backup. It's only used when you receive an update of the Tivo software - It's applied to the dormant partition and then Tivo is rebooted to use the new software. So unless you get version 2.5.5a downloaded it isn't going to happen. And if you do it's the old kernel so you're stuffed anyway.


Thanks for the clarification. I vaguely remember that now that you mention it. I find that I learn bits and pieces about the Tivo's innards, only to forget it all again by the time I next need to work on it.


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## jeremy Parsons (Jan 6, 2002)

Well guys I have just come into possession of two spare 750GB Green power drives I had them in my synology NAS drive but they dont work well in a RAID set so I shall be upgrading one of my tivos to 750GB once the IDE converts arrive , I too am not convinced they will work well in tivo but I have two of them kicking around. I am minded to try it in my second tivo and if it workd well upgrade the prime tivo ,


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

jeremy Parsons said:


> I too am not convinced they will work well in tivo but I have two of them kicking around. I am minded to try it in my second tivo and if it workd well upgrade the prime tivo ,


Why do you doubt that they will work well in a Tivo when both www.tivocentral.co.uk and www.tivoheaven.co.uk are now supplying these drives pre-formatted for use in Tivos?


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## jeremy Parsons (Jan 6, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Why do you doubt that they will work well in a Tivo when both www.tivocentral.co.uk and www.tivoheaven.co.uk are now supplying these drives pre-formatted for use in Tivos?


When I last looked they were not , they don;t work well on my Linux based NAS drive but as single drives in a tivo these might well be my last upgrade for my two tivos before they head off for electronic heaven.

I have ordered the reccomended SATA adaptors

Its typical , progress can sometimes mean going backwards , Tivo S1 in the UK , concorde. sigh!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

jeremy Parsons said:


> I have ordered the reccomended SATA adaptors


You mean the adapters mentioned by the Citrus in post 2 of this thread I assume?


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## jeremy Parsons (Jan 6, 2002)

yep i ordered 3 in the hope at least two of them work!


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