# Comcast Mpeg-4 issues: View but not Record



## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Apparently there's a problem cropping up with the Comcast transition to mpeg-4. I first noticed this on Friday, 7/22 when a movie I set to record on Cinemax failed to record and the reason listed in history was "not authorized" - even though it's a subscribed channel. Called TiVo and they went through a series of diagnostics checks and determined the cablecard was apparently incompletely paired and I needed to call Comcast. Saturday, 7/23, called Comcast at 7am and they re-paired the card with not change in the behavior - I could view, but not record as "not authorized." They said it could be the cable card and I needed to swap it out, so drove over to the xfinity store and did so. Got back, put it in and called Comcast to pair. They did so, but lost all my premium channels. After a couple hours going back and forth and forwarded to various departments, THAT was finally fixed. But the original problem was still a problem. Finally got it back to where I was on late Friday by Saturday at 1:30pm ( about 6 hours on the phone and half hour driving!) They scheduled a truck roll for today, Sunday 7/24. I cancelled that when I found a couple of forum posts describing the exact issue I was having. These posts are:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=539351
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=541407

The threads show this happening in multiple regions, but only to Comcast users and Roamios.

The channels I've identified in Sacramento are:

763 DXDHDP
797 MGMHD
805 VICEPHD
806 NGWIHD
810 BBCAPH
813 DFCHD
814 UPHD
822 GSNPHD
825 SHOWHDP
838 MAXHDP

This is almost assuredly not comprehensive - they are just the ones I've tested with the relevant criteria (720 resolution, not the expected 1080).

I've posted a question regarding this to the Comcast support forum and a Comcast representative replied that's it's a know problem and that it started with the most recent TiVo software release and that TiVo is working on a fix, but I've not seen anything from TiVo confirming that.

I'm not looking for a magic bullet, push a button and find it fixed resolution. What I want is a more broad acknowledgement of the problem and a timeline for when it will be fixed. I don't care whose problem it is, I just need it fixed.

I don't need to subscribe to channels I cannot record.

I don't need a dvr that doesn't record my subscribed channels.

Don't mean to come across as a rant, but this is frustrating.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

This post in the "other" thread said TiVo stated they were working on the problem:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943976



> I called tech support today and opened a case number, and after the technician spoke to her manager, she acknowledged that Tivo is aware and working on a fix, but there's no ETA.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

dlfl said:


> This post in the "other" thread said TiVo stated they were working on the problem:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943976


Thanks. I missed that. Good to know. I wonder if more people calling and opening tickets would raise the priority of the fix.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

dlfl said:


> This post in the "other" thread said TiVo stated they were working on the problem:


The "other" thread is not the one linked above. The thread link above is the Bay Area specific thread. The one below is national in scope and rather than start at post #1, here is a starting place (post #286) to get the national scope of the issue:

None of my minis will tune in channel that comes in fine on roamio
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943842#post10943842

rgr, there is a list of Sacramento problem network at the link above that needs updating. I will edit and update that list with your Sacramento feedback. I listed about 10 more channels to take a look in addition to the the 10 you cited. Also, go to the posts by wuzznubbi in the "other" thread - he's got sac channel info, but limited subscription. also the posts by mcarlson you'll want to look at too. he is in the Santa Maria market but you'll see the channel map overlap with Sacramento.

If there is a thread that is a candidate to be renamed, it's the national one, because you read that thread details and "comes in fine on roamio" you learn to mean is less than fine really - it means you can watch live tv but can't buffer and record. so that's the thread title that needs clarification. whereas the bay area mpeg4 thread is bay area focused but I for one welcome Sacramento and Chicago discussions, but other Bay Area readers may not be as welcoming on out of market topics.

But I am all for listing and breaking down the sacramento channel list in the bay area thread. It's relevant as the channel maps overlap and comcast may follow the same deployment. and I made that case in post #143. so welcome to the discussion there.

Channel categories:
a) channels remaining mpeg2 hd - put that in the bay area post (#143) as well, per wuzznubbi source
b) h.264/1080i working
c) h.264/720p working - lots of those too
d) and then the problem list - h.264/720p


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

Pretty much the same channels broken in Santa Maria/Lompoc.
680 UNVSOHD
731 FS1HD
763 DXDHDP
764 BLOOMHD
783 MTVLIVE
805 VICEPHD
806 NGWHD
810 BBCAPH
813 DFCHD
814 UPHD
820 OWNHD
822 GSNPHD
823 P12BAHD
838 MAXHDP

I don't get 825 SHOWHDP but suspect that it's also broken here based on the resolution/frequency


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

More to check in Santa Maria / Sacramento:

AXSTV 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AXS_TV
H.264/720p failing - Chi, Peoria
MPEG2 HD - SF
h.264 in Sac??

BEIN2HD Unconfirmed Resolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeIN_Sports
BeIN Sports 2 HD
H.264/720p failing - SF
Note: BeIN Sports 1 is MPEG2 SD in San Francisco
Sac CH 677, 291MHz, H.264

BLOOMHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomberg_Television
H.264/720p failing - Chi, Sac, Santa Maria
MPEG2 HD - SF

FS1 [confirmation needed FS1 & FXDEP] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Sports_1
H.264/720p failing - Chi, Atl, Sac
MPEG2 HD - SF
Sac CH 731, Frequency needed

FXDEPHD [confirmation needed FS1 & FXDEP] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Deportes
HD H.264 / 720p failing - SF
Sac CH 679, 291MHz, H.264

HBO SIGNATURE 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO#Channels
H.264/720p failing - Nash
MPEG2 SD - SF
HD in Sac??

MTVLIVE 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Live_(TV_network)
H.264/720p failing - Atl, Chi, Nash, Sac, SM
MPEG2 HD - SF

NFLNRZD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_RedZone
H.264/720p failing - Chi, Peoria
Sac CH 785, 309MHz, H.264

UNVSPHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC_Universo
H.264 / 720p failing - SF
Sac CH 680, 291MHz, H.264


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> More to check in Santa Maria / Sacramento:
> .
> .
> .


Thanks, I'll work my way down the list first thing in the morning. Is there additional information you'd like me to collect? Frequency, etc?


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## jasonander (Jan 9, 2005)

rgr said:


> Thanks. I missed that. Good to know. I wonder if more people calling and opening tickets would raise the priority of the fix.


Yes, please do call in! This needs to get on TiVo's radar, how big a problem it is (or will become). I had to be put on hold for about 10 minutes after arguing with the CSR who wanted me to go through her script which included rebooting my TiVos and calling Comcast to get my cable cards repaired rather than acknowledge the problem and that TiVo needed to fix it. You can reference my case# 05976351 if you'd like to skip all that scripted customer service script-reading monkey BS.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I emailed TiVoSupport_Sarah with my data about the issues I'm seeing on OWNHD in the East Bay (Berkeley). 

I can watch the channel on Live TV but there is no buffering or trick play. The Roamio's red recording light comes on, but no recording is left in MyShows. It appears in the History list only, listed as "Not Authorized" even though the Auth is "S" and the CCI Byte is 0x00. 

There's one other channel which has also made the transition, but it's not in my tier so I can't test it. 

OWNHD records just fine on the TiVoHD, and the Roamio can play the TiVoHD's recording after it has been transferred.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

there is a lot of information in the "other" thread on this topic. Again, it's the one titled:

"None of my minis will tune in channel that comes in fine on roamio"

The info is all in there but there is a lot to weed through, but here are some *key posts and links to catch up with* and "Cliffs Notes" on the roamio record / buffer issue. So I'm including some here to get new readers on this issue at least pointed in the right direction and somewhat up to speed in reading the "other thread. or least keep readers from not heading off in the wrong direction - chasing down replacement cable cards, checking signal levels and so forth.

As background, Tivo support article:
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

You'll find this article "lacking" once you are up to speed on the reality of the situation. But it does point out the* mpeg4 transition going on in 16 markets across 10 states.*

You'll see posts in the "other" thread that point to the xfinity forums thread tracking the issue here:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-FF-or-REW-a-specific-channel-BBC/m-p/2774044

Also see post #36 from June 28 in the other thread where *TiVoSupport_Sarah is aware of the issue and asking for affected TSN's to start an investigation*:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10922372#post10922372

It would be tsn's for roamios and paired mini tsn's

And *as far as the affected channel list for Sacramento, that's worth reporting too, but probably a good idea to get as complete a list as possible to submit*. It's yes on the 10 in post #1, but there are more, maybe double that. Let me pull together what is known on Sac and post again with what's known, and what still needs checking / confirmation.

It looks to mirror what has been found in Santa Maria/Lompoc with the channel list with the the only known variation being 797 MGMHD which isn't offered in Santa Maria / Lompoc. And as mcarlson posted, what you can view and see as far as resolution is dependent on subscription tier. Post #6 has channels to check, but I'll clean it up and repost with more.

There haven't been any reports from Stockton, Modesto, and Fresno at this point that I'm aware of, but roamio comcast subscribers in the Central Valley are probably likewise affected.

*CHECKING CHANNELS
*
-Series 5 Roamios are displaying live tv video and audio so resolutions can be seen for subscribed channels

-Don't scan channels with mini paired to host roamios unless you are prepared for lockups on problem channels and reboots .

-Channel frequency and encoding (mpeg2 or h.264 on videoPID line) are found in tivo diagnostics menu, whereas resolution is not.

-You need a subscription to the channel for the tuner to lock in order to see the resolution, and of course the buffer/record issue. But you can see mpeg2 or h.264 in diagnostics as well as frequency for an unsubcribed.

-Active Video Output Format is displayed in System Information but can vary based on one's video settings - selected output format checkboxes. so don't look there for resolution or what your tv is reporting since that's what is output by the tivo - again dependent on your settings and all formats may not be checkboxed.

-vertical resolution as delivered by comcast is found in the full/extended channel information banner display (info button on live tv channel) over on the right hand side. Horizontal x Vertical Resolution @ framerate | Aspect Ratio is viewed via spsrs:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10942141#post10942141

however aspect ratio is showing as 0:0 for h.264 channels, and 4:3 or 16:9 for mpeg2 channels. And this seems to be the case for Series 4-6.

There is a long and growing list of 1080i networks reported as being delivered by comcast as h.264/720p and failing on Roamio. Whereas in cases where 1080i networks are delivered by comcast as h.264/1080i the list of problems on Roamio stands at ZERO. In other words, h.264/1080i is fully working on roamio - no problem reports.

*RECORDING ATTEMPTS*
Recording attempts generally end up failing even though initially they appear to start recording and show as in progress recordings, they eventually disappear from the Now Playing List.
They do show in history, and pressing info on the "Not Authorized" recording, roamio shows more detail:
"This show was not recorded because the Tivo box is not authorized for this channel, the program was not purchased, or the program was not available in your area."
If they do manage to stay in NPL or end up in deleted recordings and recovered to NPL, basically they don't play.
If you're seeing similar, you've got a roamio problem channel and that network is probably mentioned as failing in other markets nationwide in the "other" thread on TCF - link above.

*WORKAROUNDS*
Record the SD channel equivalent of the problem H.264
For example in Sacramento:
820 OWN-HD = 220 OWNPA however the latter is the west feed (P) and 3 hours delayed from HD east feed

Record the h.264 channel on TivoHD or Premiere - those are documented as properly buffering and recording all h.264.
It sounds strange and doesn't make sense that the older hardware (Premiere and TivoHD) works. But that's the case.

So if a TivoHD was on your network as your "workaround" to record the channels that roamio doesn't, you can then transfer those recordings to another model tivo and play them back just fine. And a Premiere can both record all h.264 and stream to Roamio and Mini as well as transfer to other roamios. Once the recording is on the Roamio, it will then play back even though the roamio couldn't record the program in the first place. The roamio can then stream that recording successfully to mini, premiere, bolt another roamio.

*MORE ON THE MINI*
if a channel fails to buffer on roamio (any roamio model), that same channel will fail to work on a mini that is paired to a roamio series as host. But you can pair that same mini to a premiere 4 tuner model and the mini will work on that channel for live tv. So that's part of one of the workarounds, put a premiere on your network to not only record but to pair with your minis.

The problem is at the host tivo, not the mini. And roamio is the only series known to fail.
Don't use the mini to tune to a known problem channel or one that is suspected to be, because at best you'll get a black screen and more likely an unending spinning blue circle (sbc) and you'll need to power cycle reboot.
So if you want to check channels for a problem, use the roamio not the mini unless you are prepared for multiple reboots and waiting 2-3 minutes each time to be back up and runing.

The root of why the roamio can't live stream the problem channels to minis is because roamio can't buffer/record the problem channels.

If you find something different that would be new - please post and share your findings. new info is popping up all the time, at least on TCF, not from comcast or tivo.

*CABLE CARDS*
A couple final notes on cards in case comcast has you checking various things, such as signal levels and you're seeing various things on the cable card screen not knowing what they are. Basically, if you're finding your problem channels match those reported in this thread, then it's the roamio problem channel issue and not something else.

So, if you're seeing the picture and live tv then the subscription authorization is probably fine and it's more likely the the roamio problem channel issue, not a channel authorization issue. and the channel won't buffer - that's the symptom. If you've got the buffer problem you can basically stop reading right here. And stop chasing down other causes. It's happening nationwide on comcast. It's well documented at this point. See the xfinity forums post earlier in this thread and point any comcast or tivo employee to it if they are unfamiliar with the issue. And it's well documented that the reps are not familiar with it.

However, if you're getting a black screen (V58 not subscribed popup) on a subscribed channel on a non-mini tivo then do check Auth - described below.
Mini will get a black screen or spinning blue circle on a roamio problem channels - see above for why. That is not a cable card issue. That is to be expected on a known roamio problem channel.

From Account & System Info
=> Cable Card Decoder
=> Cable Card Options
=> Cable Card Menu
=> Conditional Access

and using the select button you can toggle ("next") through the 2-6 tuners, numbered 0-5 matching the Tivo Box Diagnostics screen. For channels not received/not subscribed (V58 popup on black screen, you will see "Auth: NS" and for channels that are part of your subscription you should see "Auth: S" or "Auth: FWK" for proper authorization / decryption of the channel

more detail at this link with screen shots on what your card values should show:
https://support.tivo.com/articles/T...ooting-Roamio-Series-and-Premiere-Series-DVRs

A pdf channel guide is linked here showing programming tiers - Digital Starter, Preferred, etc.:
http://forums.xfinity.com/comcastsu...7535/1/TRIV405MVO_2015-01-20_12-10-31_CLU.PDF
if someone has a more current list of tiers and packages, please post link.
Also note this is for Dublin, so your neighborhood could vary, but you can access your channel list here:
http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv-listings
but the lower link does not break out the programming tiers like the upper .pdf link.

Bottom line is that if the Auth is NS for a channel you subscribe to that's part of your package, that's the problem right there. Have comcast resend a signal out to refresh the card and the Auth value will change decrypting the channel.

Auth is different from, CCI byte which also appears in the Cable Card Conditional Access (see link above) as well as Tivo Diagnostics for each tuned channel. This value has to do with copy control of digital content and in the case of comcast is 0x00 for all but premium channels such as HBO, Showtime, etc in which case it is 0x02. this has to do with transferring (not streaming) of recorded shows. Basically with comcast, you are free to move around your network all but the premium channel recording files.

0x00 - Copy freely - Content is not copy protected
0x02 - Copy Once - The box can make a recording, but can't transfer it

for more on CCI byte:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=483704


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> There's one other channel which has also made the transition, but it's not in my tier so I can't test it.
> 
> OWNHD records just fine on the TiVoHD, and the Roamio can play the TiVoHD's recording after it has been transferred.


What package tier do you have? economy? you're not seeing 775 WGNA? nor 823 Pac 12 ?

This was the latest for SF Bay Area as of 3 days ago and I haven't scanned since, but from
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10942464#post10942464

Part of Digital Starter Tier:
775 WGNAPHD WGN America HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz

820 OWNHD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
Previously was delivered as H.264 / 1080i, now failing as transcoded 720p

823 P12BAHD Pac 12 Network Bay Area HD H.264 / 720p **243** MHz
Does not require the Sports and Entertainment Package.

Part of Digital Preferred Tier:
678 ESPNDHD ESPN Deportes HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
unique so far in that it is *a H.264 that buffers/records on Roamio*. As an ESPN network it is native 720p so it is not transcoded like the other failing channels.

680 UNVSPHD NBC Universo HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
Neither of the above (678 & 680) require the Sports and Entertainment Package. Neither requires Latino Tier

679 FXDEPHD Fox Deportes HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
may be the same case as 678 & 680 and not require extra packages (sports or latino) [confirmation needed]

Requires either Sports & Entertainment or Latino add-on package:
677 BeIN-HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz

Channel is part of the Sports and Entertainment ala carte add-on package $9.99/month. Includes NFL red zone and package can be turned off at season's end - no contract/commitment.
Also can be added for $9.99 as part of the latino tier, which is dozens of channels, primarily in espanol - channel range 600-680

Summary: 7 Total on 2 Frequencies, all 720p
6 of the 7 failing on Roamio/Paired Minis


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Something to try...

When my Roamio was updated to 20.6.1 and 1 or 2 of my OTA channel would not record, but can still watch the Live TV with the error message onscreen. (It was KOFY Channels 20-1 and 20-2 which was giving me issues.)

I re-ran Guided Setup and not long after that, the issue resolved. 

I can record 20-1 and 20-2 now. I also have 1Ps set on that channel.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> tLet me pull together what is known on Sac and post again with what's known, and what still needs checking / confirmation.
> 
> It looks to mirror what has been found in Santa Maria/Lompoc with the channel list with the the only known variation being 797 MGMHD which isn't offered in Santa Maria / Lompoc. And as mcarlson posted, what you can view and see as far as resolution is dependent on subscription tier. Post #6 has channels to check, but I'll clean it up and repost with more.


Below is the aforementioned channel chart with a mix of:
- known failing channels, and
- potential h.264/720p suspect channels

what's known is in black; what's red needs confirmation

Many channels with question marks on the resolution are that way because you need a subscription for the tuner to lock in order to see the resolution, and of course to see the buffer/record issue. But you can see mpeg2 or h.264 in diagnostics as well as frequency for an unsubcribed channel, so in some cases you will see h.264 and frequency in black as known, but resolution and failing as question marks. So if you do subscribe to channels with that information lacking, please post as to the resolution and if it's buffering.

if you're not sure on how to check that information, please see the heading CHECKING CHANNELS at this post:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10945553#post10945553

If you think you might be seeing the output resolution and not the resolution delivered by comcast to the tivo, check the link above.

I don't think axstv and hbo signature are offered in HD in Sacramento so I've taken those off the prior list.

FREQUENCIES
The frequency can be important to indicate if there might be more channels clustered together on a frequency. On 339 MHz it looks like all those channels have been discovered - program numbers 1-9, although 10 channels have been seen at a single frequency so there might be another one there. An open question is if a TivoHD can tune directly to 339MHz-10 ? Roamio seem to be locked out by card control of the tuning. but there is a backdoor to manual tuning - it's detailed in the "other" thread. or can be added to this thread if anyone wants to try manual tuning on frequencies. It would appear that some of the channels with information lacking might end up being at 291, 309, and 345 MHz where there are just a few channels detailed currently.

Channel No. | Network| Format | Frequency-Program Number

450 MLS Direct Kick MPEG2 or H.264?
451 MLB Extra Innings MPEG2 or H.264?
452 MLB Extra Innings MPEG2 or H.264?

677 BEIN2HD H.264/720P? fails? 291MHz
678 ESPNDHD H.264/720p? probably working? freq?
679 FXDEPHD H.264/720P? fails? 291MHz
680 UNVSPHD H.264/720P? fails? 291MHz

731 FS1 MPEG2 or H.264? fails?
763 DXDHDP H.264/720P? fails 339MHz-3
764 BLOOMHD H.264/720p fails 339MHz-8
783 MTVLIVE H.264/720P fails 339MHz-5
785 NFLNRZD H.264/720P? fails? 309MHz
797 MGMHD H.264/720P fails 339MHz-7
801 HBOHD MPEG2 or H.264?
805 VICEPHD H.264/720P fails 339MHz-1
806 NGWHD H.264/720P fails 339MHz-6
808 HBOLPHD MPEG2 or H.264?
809 STZENHD MPEG2 or H.264?
810 BBCAPH H.264/720P fails 339MHz-2
813 DFCHD H.264/720P fails 339MHz-9
814 UPHD H.264/720P fails 339MHz-4
805 GALAHD MPEG2 or H.264?
816 STARZ MPEG2 or H.264?
818 UDNHD MPEG2 or H.264?
820 OWNHD H.264/720P fails freq?
822 GSNPHD H.264/720P fails 345MHz-6
823 P12BAHD H.264/720P? fails? 303MHz-5
825 SHOWHD H.264/720P fails 309MHz-8803
838 MAXHDP H.264/720P? fails? 309MHz-8802
847 TMCHD MPEG2 or H.264?
870 NDEMAND MPEG2 or H.264?

MPEG2 HD - Tivo Series3 Compatible
703-714 channel range = broadcast networks
720 CSNBD 721 CSNCD 723 NBCSNHD 724 ESPNHD 725 ESPN2HD
727 NBATVHD 729 MLBHD 730 NFLHD 776 WEATHHD 780 CSNCA
788 ESPNUHD 819 CMHTHD


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> When my Roamio was updated to 20.6.1 and 1 or 2 of my OTA channel would not record, but can still watch the Live TV with the error message onscreen. (It was KOFY Channels 20-1 and 20-2 which was giving me issues.)
> 
> I re-ran Guided Setup and not long after that, the issue resolved.
> 
> I can record 20-1 and 20-2 now. I also have 1Ps set on that channel.


1Ps ? which setting is that?

Which error message were you getting? No Signal? The recordings error out as "Not Authorized" in the Roamio mpeg4 issue.

Is the OTA behavior you saw similar to this?

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10940201#post10940201



L David Matheny said:


> FWIW, I have sometimes seen the behavior you describe on OTA channels (MPEG2). I think it's caused by some timing data (Program Clock Reference?) being missing or stuck (not incrementing) in the transport stream. TiVo seems to rely on proper timing information for some functions like trick play. I've seen it mostly from a local translator (re-transmitter) for one of our PBS stations when a piece of equipment which replaces the PSIP data goes wonky.
> 
> When the program ends, the TiVo sees that the time apparently didn't advance, concludes that nothing was recorded, and deletes the recording even though everything but the timing information is actually there. History shows a No Signal error.
> 
> Maybe some of your MPEG4 stations have transport streams with malformed timing data, or maybe MPEG4 sometimes uses a new variation that the TiVo doesn't handle correctly.


And this cropped up over the weekend:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943146#post10943146



slowbiscuit said:


> Getting worse here in the ATL, now FS1 is broken (channel 875). There is something interesting about this one however - Roamio will record an event but when done the time bar is way off (some random time that's way less than actual) and you can't trickplay the show at all, it skips wildly around when you try to do so. All you can do is play it live. This was converted to h.264 this week and is/was a 720p channel. The original broken channels won't record at all.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

It was a signal problem error message that just would not go away whenever its on that channel. It later caused problems just changing the channel.

It has been a while now since it was fixed by Guided setup so don't remember the exact words of that message window.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

No signal or errors other than 'not authorized' have nothing to do with this problem. And OTA channels are mpeg2, these issues are all with 720p mpeg4 channels (as reported by Roamios) on Comcast only, so far.

It's a Tivo bug probably related to SkipMode that has been exposed by Comcast's encoding of certain channels. We don't know why it only fails on some channels and not others, and Comcast has made attempts (at least for me) to correct the problem in the ATL with no success.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> 1Ps ? which setting is that?


OnePass


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

jasonander said:


> Yes, please do call in! This needs to get on TiVo's radar, how big a problem it is (or will become). I had to be put on hold for about 10 minutes after arguing with the CSR who wanted me to go through her script which included rebooting my TiVos and calling Comcast to get my cable cards repaired rather than acknowledge the problem and that TiVo needed to fix it. You can reference my case# 05976351 if you'd like to skip all that scripted customer service script-reading monkey BS.


I did call in and added my case number to the issue, which the CSR says is being worked on. He also said that an updated software release would be needed. No ETA or timeline given.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> Below is the aforementioned channel chart


 Frequency-Prog	Video PID	
450 MLS Direct Kick	-	V58 
451 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58 
452 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58

677 BEIN2HD	-	V53 
678 ESPNDHD	-	V58 
679 FXDEPHD	-	V58 
680 UNVSPHD -	720p	291000 Khz-1004	H.264	Fail

731 FS1HD	-	720p	345000 Khz-3	H.264	Fail
763 DXDHDP	-	720p	339000 Khz-3	H.264	Fail
764 BLOOMHD	-	720p	339000 Khz-8	H.264	Fail
783 MTVLIVE	-	720p	339000 Khz-5	H.264	Fail
785 NFLNRZD	-	V58 
797 MGMHD	-	720p	339000 Khz-7	H.264	Fail
801 HBOHD	-	1080i	363000 Khz-5	H.264	Works
805 VICEPHD	-	720p	339000 Khz-1	H.264	Fail
806 NGWHD -	720p	339000 Khz-6	H.264	Fail
808 HBOLPHD	-	720p	309000 Khz-8801	H.264	Fail
809 STZENHD	-	1080i	321000 Khz-1	H.264	Works
810 BBCAPH	-	720p	339000 Khz-2	H.264	Fail
813 DFCHD	-	720p	339000 Khz-9	H.264	Fail
814 UPHD	-	720p	339000 Khz-4	H.264	Fail
815 GALAHD	-	720p	345000 Khz-7	H.264	Fail
816 STARZ	-	1080i	333000 Khz-8	H.264	Works
818 UDNHD	-	1080i	201000 Khz-8	H.264	Works
820 OWNHD	-	not available 
822 GSNPHD -	720p	345000 Khz-6	H.264	Fail
823 P12BAHD -	720p	303000 Khz-5	H.264	Fail
825 SHOWHD -	720p	309000 Khz-8803	H.264	Fail
838 MAXHDP -	720p	309000 Khz-8802	H.264	Fail
847 TMCHD	-	V58 
870 NDEMAND	-	V58


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

That fills in a lot of the data holes, rgr :up:
17 confirmed fail, but with some (at least 9) suspects remaining.



tivoyahoo said:


> you can see mpeg2 or h.264 in diagnostics as well as frequency for an unsubscribed channel


If any of the v58 are confirmed as mpeg2 then they can be eliminated as potential problem channels. On the other hand, if they are h.264, they remain suspect, especially if they reside at the same frequency as other problem channels.

If you tune each of your 4 or 6 roamio tuners with the v58 channels below, you can see 4 or 6 at a time in the diagnostics screen.

450 MLS Direct Kick	-	V58	
451 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58	
452 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58

677 BEIN2HD	-	V53	
678 ESPNDHD	-	V58	
679 FXDEPHD	-	V58

785 NFLNRZD	-	V58

847 TMCHD	-	V58	
870 NDEMAND	-	V58


----------



## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> If you tune each of your 4 or 6 roamio tuners with the v58 channels below, you can see 4 or 6 at a time in the diagnostics screen.


Didn't even occur to me to check the V58/V53 channels

450 MLS Direct Kick	-	V58	153000 Khz-4	H.264
451 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58	153000 Khz-3	H.264
452 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58	153000 Khz-5	H.264

677 BEIN2HD	-	V53	291000 Khz-1001	H.264
678 ESPNDHD	-	V58	345000 Khz-5	H.264
679 FXDEPHD	-	V58	291000 Khz-1003	H.264

847 TMCHD	-	V58	309000 Khz-8800	H.264
870 NDEMAND	-	V58	609000 Khz-37001	MPEG2


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## Chevelleman (Feb 28, 2016)

Weird never had this problem with mpeg 4 channels in the Portland area. I had the skip mode problem not working but never had any mpeg 4 channel 720p or 1080i give me a not authorized message that caused it not to record. Comcast might have some differences in there encoding with mpeg 4 in different areas.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Well we didn't have any problems with mpeg4 channels here until a month ago (the conversion was done except for sports channels and locals). They all worked until Comcast broke some of them on Roamios.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

Chevelleman said:


> Weird never had this problem with mpeg 4 channels in the Portland area. I had the skip mode problem not working but never had any mpeg 4 channel 720p or 1080i give me a not authorized message that caused it not to record. Comcast might have some differences in there encoding with mpeg 4 in different areas.


Roamio series, correct? We've been wondering what's going on in Portland and if Comcast is doing something differently there and in Tucson. Only have one report from Tucson but that's from a Bolt user:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939393#post10939393

Would you be willing to look at the resolution on some channels that are frequently failing in other markets? If so, the vertical resolution as delivered by comcast is found in the full/extended channel information banner display (info button on live tv channel) over on the right hand side. Wondering if you are seeing 1080i on the networks below? or 720p? Thank You!

Or if you are curious and want full resolution detail:
Horizontal x Vertical Resolution @ framerate | Aspect Ratio is viewed via spsrs:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10942141#post10942141

and then for mpeg4 channels you'll see one of these onscreen:
OutSrc:[email protected]/0:0
OutSrc:[email protected]/0:0

AXSTV 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AXS_TV
BBCA 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_America
COOKHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_Channel
DFCHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Family
DIYHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIY_Network
GSNHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Show_Network
MGMHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_HD
MTVLIVE 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Live_(TV_network)
NFLNRZD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_RedZone
OVATNHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovation_(U.S._TV_channel)
OXYG 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_(TV_channel)
RETROPLEX 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RetroPlex
SPMNHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsman_Channel
UHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_HD
588 UPHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_(TV_network)
VICEHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceland
WGNA 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGN_America
NBC Universo


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rgr said:


> 677 BEIN2HD	-	V53
> 820 OWNHD	-	not available


Just wanted to clarify on your 820 OWN result. It varies from reports in the "other" thread for Sacramento where it has been reported to fail. But then 820 is submitted on the list at this xfinity post:

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-to-lower-resolution-720p/m-p/2778243#M183049

So maybe 820 is confirmed on your end? But the v53 on 677 could indicate a signal issue on 820 too? are you getting over 39db? if so, can you attenuate the signal with a splitter to test the channel again and does that change your 820 OWN result?


----------



## wuzznuubi (Jan 17, 2013)

tivoyahoo said:


> Just wanted to clarify on your 820 OWN result. It varies from reports in the "other" thread for Sacramento where it has been reported to fail. But then 820 is submitted on the list at this xfinity post:
> 
> http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-to-lower-resolution-720p/m-p/2778243#M183049
> 
> So maybe 820 is confirmed on your end? But the v53 on 677 could indicate a signal issue on 820 too? are you getting over 39db? if so, can you attenuate the signal with a splitter to test the channel again and does that change your 820 OWN result?


Don't know where in SAC rgr is, but I'm getting Channel Not Available here, even though according to the Comcast Lineup for my zipcode, I should get it (really don't care though as Comcast Lineup is always inaccurate). It is available on CH 220 in SD here.


----------



## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

wuzznuubi said:


> Don't know where in SAC rgr is, but I'm getting Channel Not Available here, even though according to the Comcast Lineup for my zipcode, I should get it (really don't care though as Comcast Lineup is always inaccurate). It is available on CH 220 in SD here.


Maybe it's a recent issue?

820 is in this post from 7/18 from GregRocket:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10938588#post10938588

and 820 is in the xfinity forums from 7/18 from CCourtney on TCF:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...EW-a-specific-channel-BBC/m-p/2775196#M182833

but on 7/23, 820 OWNHD "CANNOT TUNE"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943062#post10943062

No change for OWN HD in SF, still failing h.264/720p but it was in h.264/1080i in February. OWNPA is channel 220 in SD and is on the west feed (P) and 3 hours delayed from 820 OWN-HD which is the east feed.

Is the callsign for 220 in Sac OWNPA? the west feed? is 820 in your channel guide? OWN-HD? or maybe comcast is moving 820 OWN-HD to a West feed? I am seeing this, so maybe it's getting moved?

http://www.lyngsat.com/tvchannels/us/Oprah-Winfrey-Network-West.html

Feeds and call signs just got moved around for another h.264 channel (WGNA) in SF and generated a lineup change tivo message which I detailed at this post:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943005#post10943005

So maybe that's what is in process in Sacramento for OWN? And maybe they'll fix it. Although that didn't happen for WGN in SF. I wonder what's happening in Santa Maria? mcarlson has 820 OWN-HD on the problem list posted at #5 in this same thread. I wonder if it's likewise off air since Sac & Santa Maria mirror each other so closely.

OWN is interesting because it fails in 3 California markets at 720p, but works at 1080i in Atlanta & Chicago:

OWN-HD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_....S._TV_channel))
H.264/720p failing - Sac, SF, SM
Previously was delivered as H.264/1080i in SF; now failing as H.264/720p
H.264/1080i **working** - Atl, Chi


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## wuzznuubi (Jan 17, 2013)

tivoyahoo said:


> Maybe it's a recent issue?
> 
> 820 is in this post from 7/18 from GregRocket:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10938588#post10938588
> ...


I don't care about OWN personally. Yes 220 is OWNPA and 820 is OWN-HD. I have a few channels that Comcast discontinued in my area *last year* and are not available anymore even though they show in the lineup for my zipcode and show in the TiVo channel list and the TiVo guide. I think it's time to kick the ball into TiVo's court and just call/chat/post/webcreate salesforce TiVo Cases/Tickets on the issue. It was a fun diversion, but I'm personally tired of it along with all my other TiVo issues that are unresolved on the HD's, Premieres and Roamio's and rude people on the supposedly "community" forums where we're supposed to share our experiences, ideas and resolutions. Time to take a break and watch some streaming stuff!


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> Just wanted to clarify on your 820 OWN result.


That was a cut and paste error on my part. 820 fell right in the middle and I neglected to delete after the copy. 820 is "not available" - as it is with wuzznuubi. The other channels are as they should be.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> Is the callsign for 220 in Sac OWNPA? the west feed? is 820 in your channel guide? OWN-HD? or maybe comcast is moving 820 OWN-HD to a West feed? I am seeing this, so maybe it's getting moved?


Oddly enough I do get 220 OWNPA while 820 OWNHD is not available. I'd think if I got one, I'd get the other, but no.

Agree with wuzznuubi - OWN is irrelevant to me and I generally have the channel de-selected on my tivo lineup.


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## NeitherSparky (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi, just poking my head in here...I have a Roamio, I'm in Sacramento and I'm getting the Not Authorized error when I try to record some of my favorite shows, off of the channel list posted in the first post. I have restarted my Tivo bunches of times and was about to contact Comcast to refresh my signal when I saw this thread. Are you guys saying there's nothing I need to be doing to fix this, that its on Tivo's end, and they will (hopefully) fix it? Should I call Tivo and let them know I am having this problem too?


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

NeitherSparky said:


> Hi, just poking my head in here...I have a Roamio, I'm in Sacramento and I'm getting the Not Authorized error when I try to record some of my favorite shows, off of the channel list posted in the first post. I have restarted my Tivo bunches of times and was about to contact Comcast to refresh my signal when I saw this thread. Are you guys saying there's nothing I need to be doing to fix this, that its on Tivo's end, and they will (hopefully) fix it? Should I call Tivo and let them know I am having this problem too?


Yes, if you indeed have the same issue, there's nothing that you can do but wait until it's resolved by TiVo or Comcast. It couldn't hurt (and might prod faster action) if you were to call TiVo and open a ticket regarding the issue.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rgr said:


> It couldn't hurt (and might prod faster action) if you were to call TiVo and open a ticket regarding the issue.


yep and I'll add: NeitherSparky, take a look back at post #10 of this thread and there is mention of TiVoSupport_Sarah and submitting a PM via this board with your affected roamio and mini tsn's - it links to this post:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10922372#post10922372

and then on the xfinity forums, there was this Sac post initially:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...EW-a-specific-channel-BBC/m-p/2775196#M182833

and now rgr's:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...to-lower-resolution-720p/m-p/2778182#U2778182

Lastly, as far as if there is anything you can do, it would help if you could help further document the issue as far as affected channels. do you subscribe to any of the following channels and get a picture? or instead do you get a v58 popup not subscribed message? if you get a picture you can help fill in the channel data. and we can explain how to do that (it's in post #10 - checking channels). if you've got picture on any of these channels below, even just one of them, we'll walk you through it. thanks.

450 MLS Direct Kick	-	V58	
451 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58	
452 MLB Extra Innings	-	V58

677 BEIN2HD	-	V53	
678 ESPNDHD	-	V58	
679 FXDEPHD	-	V58

785 NFLNRZD	-	V58

847 TMCHD	-	V58	
870 NDEMAND	-	V58


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## Chevelleman (Feb 28, 2016)

tivoyahoo said:


> Roamio series, correct? We've been wondering what's going on in Portland and if Comcast is doing something differently there and in Tucson. Only have one report from Tucson but that's from a Bolt user:
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939393#post10939393
> 
> Would you be willing to look at the resolution on some channels that are frequently failing in other markets? If so, the vertical resolution as delivered by comcast is found in the full/extended channel information banner display (info button on live tv channel) over on the right hand side. Wondering if you are seeing 1080i on the networks below? or 720p? Thank You!
> ...


This is on a Roamio. I checked everyone of those channels and only Redzone and WGNA showed 720p all the rest showed 1080i. I was able to set a recording on those two channels but the recording was blank.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

Chevelleman said:


> This is on a Roamio. I checked everyone of those channels and only Redzone and WGNA showed 720p all the rest showed 1080i. I was able to set a recording on those two channels but the recording was blank.


Thanks Chevelleman for checking. but Portland may have just joined the club officially. Go to Manage Recordings & One Pass => History. do you see your recording attempts from NFL Red Zone & WGNA in History? As not authorized? more on that below from post #10 info on this issue. And a post from the Bay Area thread with links to photo collection of what the issue looks like.

When you tune to NFL Red Zone & WGNA are they properly buffering? can you fast forward and rewind after you've stayed on the channel for awhile?

----------

*RECORDING ATTEMPTS*
Recording attempts generally end up failing even though initially they appear to start recording and show as in progress recordings, they eventually disappear from the Now Playing List.
They do show in history, and pressing info on the "Not Authorized" recording, roamio shows more detail:
"This show was not recorded because the Tivo box is not authorized for this channel, the program was not purchased, or the program was not available in your area."
If they do manage to stay in NPL or end up in deleted recordings and recovered to NPL, basically they don't play.
If you're seeing similar, you've got a roamio problem channel and that network is probably mentioned as failing in other markets nationwide in the "other" thread on TCF - link above.



patrickthickey said:


> - What exactly happens when they attempt to record?
> 
> I attach links to four photos depicting the sequence.
> 
> ...


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

Chevelleman said:


> This is on a Roamio. I checked everyone of those channels and only Redzone and WGNA showed 720p all the rest showed 1080i. I was able to set a recording on those two channels but the recording was blank.


if you've got the not authorized recordings and channels not buffering, you want to look for more. focus on the 720p ones. have the extended channel info bar up as you flip through (hit info) and then stop on channels that say 720p over on the right side. and see if the buffer fills green. if you pause you'll notice the playback jumps right to live tv rather than resuming from the pause point.

I can look at portland channel list and give you an idea of what ones are suspect as well. There is a big list of networks that are failing - posted here:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10943842#post10943842

I gave you a sampling in the earlier post of networks to check, but that's the big list in the link above. but as you can see in the list, if comcast is delivering the channel as 1080i then there isn't a single report of a channel failing. so you can skip right by 1080i channels as you flip through and focus on 720p, where some may buffer, some may not.

more from post #10



tivoyahoo said:


> *CHECKING CHANNELS
> *
> -Series 5 Roamios are displaying live tv video and audio so resolutions can be seen for subscribed channels
> 
> ...


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rgr said:


> Didn't even occur to me to check the V58/V53 channels
> 
> 870 NDEMAND	-	V58	609000 Khz-37001	MPEG2


more data holes filled in and one suspect channel eliminated since it's mpeg2 :up:

rgr, NFLNRZD wasn't in your latest v58 update, perhaps because it was previously documented back in post #13 as:

785 NFLNRZD H.264/720P? fails? 309MHz

or maybe it was a cut and paste error like 820 OWN?

And it sounds like NFLNRZD may be failing in Portland, waiting to hear more from *Chevelleman*. but *another poster from Portland area since reported that BBC America was failing. And that the channel map looked to be in transition as he had to power down completely* and let the cable card re-aquire the channel information map. Chevelleman are you now seeing BBCA as 720p and not buffering/recording? You may need to pull the power plug on roamio and let the cable card get a fresh channel map on reboot if indeed there are changes going on at the headend.

mcarlson doesn't have 785 NFLNRZD on his Santa Maria/Lompoc problem list. I don't think NFLNRZD is confirmed as a working h.264 in that market. And I don't think NFLNRZD is mpeg2 in Santa Maria. If it were, that would be the first instance of a channel that was h.264 in Sacramento and mpeg2 in Santa Maria. perhaps mcarlson can confirm if it is likewise h.264 in Santa Maria, but that he doesn't have a subscription, as I suspect that's the case.

NFLNRZD and BeIN-HD are part of the Sports and Entertainment ala carte add-on package $9.99/month. Can be turned off at season's end - no contract/commitment.
http://www.xfinity.com/corporate/programming/sports/sepackage.html

So it looks like we haven't had a report from a Sacramento or Santa Maria subscriber so those two channels remain with data holes. But NFLNRZD puzzles me because tuning in to that channel shows a still image that it is on free preview for the preseason games - Aug 11, 18, 25, Sep1

There is no point in comcast encrypting that channel at this point in time. there is no content other than the still image graphic announcing the free preview. It's not the NFL network channel which is separate. Hopefully comcast remembers to flip the switch and unencrypt it before Aug11.

Here's a graphic from last season announcing the free preview that's happening again this season:
http://i.imgur.com/B8T9Xh9.png

So that one should be testable without subscription in the near future if not already.


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## Chevelleman (Feb 28, 2016)

I did notice last night that BBCA and now Pac-12 channels are 720p. I'll check tonight if they're failing.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> rgr, NFLNRZD wasn't in your latest v58 update, perhaps because it was previously documented back in post #13 as:
> 
> 785 NFLNRZD H.264/720P? fails? 309MHz
> 
> or maybe it was a cut and paste error like 820 OWN?


Dang! Yep - missed it as it was in the middle of the range in my spreadsheet.
Here you go:

785 NFLNRZD	-	V58	309000 Khz-8804	H.264

I also got a response from TiVoSupport_Sarah when I asked her for some ballpark on timing for a fix:
"rgr, we unfortunately do not have a date or ballpark date for this issue. We do apologize, we certainly understand the frustration of having to wait for it to be resolved. However, this is one of our top priorities with this issue right now. We hope to have a fix out soon."


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rgr said:


> "rgr, we unfortunately do not have a date or ballpark date for this issue. We do apologize, we certainly understand the frustration of having to wait for it to be resolved. However, this is one of our top priorities with this issue right now. We hope to have a fix out soon."


Thanks for passing that along to the board. Remember how you couldn't tune 820 OWN and wuzznuubi got channel not available, even though the channel is in the guide?

It could be the same thing that's happening in Portland where the channel map and potentially the frequency are changing and the channel went off air at one spot and was placed somewhere else. on that channel and for other channels potentially.

So I'd suggest pulling the power cord on the tivos and at reboot that will let the let the cable card get a fresh channel map if indeed there are changes going on at the headend. And you might get a different result, with being able to tune to 820 and who knows, maybe they even added some channels. or changed formats or feeds on others. might trigger a channel lineup change notification message generated by the tivo box as well.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> So I'd suggest pulling the power cord on the tivos and at reboot that will let the let the cable card get a fresh channel map if indeed there are changes going on at the headend. And you might get a different result, with being able to tune to 820 and who knows, maybe they even added some channels. or changed formats or feeds on others. might trigger a channel lineup change notification message generated by the tivo box as well.


I'll give that a shot shortly and let you know what I find out


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rgr said:


> I'll give that a shot shortly and let you know what I find out


Some more info. In TiVo box Diagnostics near the end there are two items to check. The VCT ID is unique to your headend. Next is the Channel List Received. Getting a channel list doesn't help if you're on the wrong headend. Trouble is you can't know unless you have someone nearby to help. But if the channels are wrong, this is one place to check. For my feed, it took a supervisor to change my cable card when my headend changed.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

rgr said:


> I'll give that a shot shortly and let you know what I find out


Just powered it on from a hard power down (unplugging) and no difference that I can see. When tuned to 820, Diagnostics shows no channel, no frequency, etc.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Some more info. In TiVo box Diagnostics near the end there are two items to check. The VCT ID is unique to your headend. Next is the Channel List Received. Getting a channel list doesn't help if you're on the wrong headend. Trouble is you can't know unless you have someone nearby to help. But if the channels are wrong, this is one place to check. For my feed, it took a supervisor to change my cable card when my headend changed.


Interesting. I was not aware of that as a potential issue. 
VCT ID is 30 for me and Channel List Received is Yes.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

Something is changing in portland as there are 3 new posters from Portland recently: chevelleman, danm628, mmaben



JoeKustra said:


> Some more info. In TiVo box Diagnostics near the end there are two items to check. The VCT ID is unique to your headend. Next is the Channel List Received.


oh, good info, and good timing too as one poster from Vancouver, WA who may have a different channel list / headend and will know where to look to compare to other Portland area posters to compare. He is reporting this:



danm628 said:


> I am seeing the "not authorized" message on BBCA when a recording fails. I could see the recording not working when I posted originally but the recording hadn't completed so there was no entry in the history log yet.
> 
> BBCA wasn't H.264 on Thursday of this week. I have successful 1080i recordings from yesterday on BBCA.
> 
> ...


and then this was posted in another thread:


mmaben said:


> So did this issue ever get resolved ? I live in Portland OR and can view Bloomberg on my Roamio but not on my Mini. Sometime get a blank screen, other time get the blue circle and the lockup. Any fix for this ?
> Thanks


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rgr said:


> Just powered it on from a hard power down (unplugging) and no difference that I can see. When tuned to 820, Diagnostics shows no channel, no frequency, etc.


I suspect they may be making changes in Saramento as in Portland, but in that case it sounds like BBCA in Portland was off air (well, off the cable stream) for less than 24 hours and came back up at different resolution and then was failing on roamio.

So I thought maybe OWN-HD had changed frequency and it would take a power cycle to find it again as was the case in Portland. but maybe OWN-HD is still down in Sacramento.

what are you seeing on 731 FS1 ? does it look and act like this in Sacramento?



slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah one thing I noticed about the now-broken FS1 is that it looks like crap after the conversion. Smearing, fuzzier, muddier colors, just awful now. They are clearly compressing the crap out of the channel. It was never great to begin with but looks much worse now, almost down to the widescreen SD level.





lpwcomp said:


> The problem with FS1 (875) manifests itself differently from the other problem channels. It does create a live buffer and can be recorded. You can neither navigate nor even play correctly. Any recordings have the wrong duration. It appears to be a problem with the timecodes since if I transfer a recording to my PC, then transfer it back, it plays fine and has the correct length.
> 
> Haven't checked yet, but the original recording might actually play OK as long as you don't use FF, RW, skip or replay. Slow and single frame step work properly. Going backwards doesn't


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> what are you seeing on 731 FS1 ? does it look and act like this in Sacramento?


Nope. 731 was on my list of viewable but unrecordable
731 FS1HD	-	720p	345000 Khz-3	H.264


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Comcast repair called me again yesterday and said that Tivo engineering is shooting for an end of August fix for the issue.

Comcast still has no answer on what they're doing differently to break these channels and why they can't simply encode them the same way they do the working ones. It's not just a 1080i to 720p down-res that's the problem because FS1 was already 720p and it's also broken now (as of last week).


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

Is it possible Comcast is doing this on purpose to control who can record programing in the future.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

schatham said:


> Is it possible Comcast is doing this on purpose to control who can record programing in the future.


Comcast could just set the cable card flag to *do not record*.


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## Fab2004 (Feb 22, 2007)

lessd said:


> Comcast could just set the cable card flag to *do not record*.


Doubt it -- I have a Premiere and a Roamio.
Premiere can record the channels where Roamio fails.

This points straight to TiVo


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Comcast repair called me again yesterday and said that Tivo engineering is shooting for an end of August fix for the issue.
> 
> Comcast still has no answer on what they're doing differently to break these channels and why they can't simply encode them the same way they do the working ones. It's not just a 1080i to 720p down-res that's the problem because FS1 was already 720p and it's also broken now (as of last week).


Yes, but FS1 behaves differently from the other broken channels, at least in ATL.

Based on the timing of events and the appearance of problems, this is what seems to have happened in ATL:

TiVo released RC14, which fixed the H.264 skip mode problem.

Comcast changed something on some channels that, in conjunction with this fix, mucked them up on Roamios.

Comcast refuses to acknowledge their change and therefore of course won't undo it and in fact continues to do it to other channels.

All of the broken channels are being transmitted by Comcast as 720P/H.254 but not all such channels are broken.

Some of the broken channels have been 720P since at least November 2015. Others were 1080i until the change. At least one (DXDHD) is native 720P.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> Comcast could just set the cable card flag to *do not record*.


CCI byte was one of the early suspects when the issue arose in June and was looked at thoroughly with not a single case of a failed recording being associatated with a value other than 0x00, other than premium channels. There are some premium channels that have reported as part of this issue, where you can view but not record but values have been 0x02, which is the expected case for premium movie channels - HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, meaning unable to transfer, not prevented from recording. And a different cci byte other than 0x00 or 0x02would affect all dvr's, beyond even tivos. Not a single reported case of that. And not a single reported case of Premiere buffer/record issue on any of the documented Roamio problem channels. not a single reported case of any Premiere problems in this regard.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

schatham said:


> Is it possible Comcast is doing this on purpose to control who can record programing in the future.





lessd said:


> Comcast could just set the cable card flag to *do not record*.





Fab2004 said:


> Doubt it -- I have a Premiere and a Roamio.
> Premiere can record the channels where Roamio fails.
> 
> This points straight to TiVo


My point in saying *Comcast could just set the cable card flag to do not record  * was to answer schatham who said *Is it possible Comcast is doing this on purpose to control who can record programing in the future*.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> Comcast refuses to acknowledge their change and therefore of course won't undo it and in fact continues to do it to other channels.


This part is untrue, at least for the Comcast advanced repair techs I've talked to. They ack'ed that they borked the channels for Tivo and made some changes in an attempt to fix them (in the ATL at least) with no effect. Then they said there's nothing more they can do, they worked with Tivo to find and correct the problem and Tivo has to issue the fix.

Still makes no sense to me that they can't make these channels work like the others that have no issue, and they never said why that is. But as mentioned in the other thread in Help Center, the nice lady I've been working with is rather clueless as to what has actually been done.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Has Comcast ever _*publicly*_ acknowledged they changed something? Have even your engineers told you _*what*_ they changed or why?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> Has Comcast ever publicly acknowledged they changed something? Have even your engineers told you what they changed or why?


 It's obvious the "why" is so they can cram more crap up that tiny cable straw, and they know that Joe Sixpack will enjoy that "Stool Shake" with every apathetic suck they draw through it!


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

If it's a Tivo problem and it doesn't affect the Bolt, transfer my Roamio Basic lifetime subscription to a new Bolt and we'll call it even.


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## loephatt (Jul 12, 2016)

mlcarson said:


> If it's a Tivo problem and it doesn't affect the Bolt, transfer my Roamio Basic lifetime subscription to a new Bolt and we'll call it even.


so you are OK losing two tuners?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

loephatt said:


> so you are OK losing two tuners?


Roamio _*Basic*_.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> It's obvious the "why" is so they can cram more crap up that tiny cable straw, and they know that Joe Sixpack will enjoy that "Stool Shake" with every apathetic suck they draw through it!


While probably correct, my point was that they have never publicly acknowledged they did anything.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> My point in saying *Comcast could just set the cable card flag to do not record  * was to answer schatham who said *Is it possible Comcast is doing this on purpose to control who can record programing in the future*.


Yes, I followed that from the outset. And my point was that it's not showing up in the cci byte, as that has been looked at pretty closely. But could comcast change the cci byte - yes, it's possible. Is it happening - no cases reported. And a change in cci byte should affect all dvr's, not just roamio, and not just tivos, but comcast's own dvr's (well at least in theory but comcast could work around that for their own box). But cci byte is well on the radar, not stealth. So it was an early potential culprit looked at, but was cleared early on as well. Is it possible something else is in there preventing the recording - yes, very possible.

And yes the recordings show up as "not authorized". And yes it very well could be something else in the stream from comcast triggering "not authorized" that the Roamio is catching and other models are ignoring / letting pass. So I wasn't trying to say close the book on that as case closed as far as comcast not having something in the stream blocking recording. Instead, I am saying the opposite - that the subject merits a further look. And it could be something much less obvious in the stream than the cci byte, and that other suspects could be under the radar and more stealth and at play, but with crippling effect. And whether it's intentional or not, it could be there either way. And yes, perhaps roamio had a particular vulnerability that comcast identified, and they may have specifically targeted that vulnerability. But this all begs the question: where should we be looking? I've contended that there are some answers and clues in the log files which can be viewed from the backdoor configuration menu...


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Do we have any reports that indicate that the problem is not present on the Bolt? The only report I could find was from an area that has not reported the problem at all.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Do we have any reports that indicate that the problem is not present on the Bolt? The only report I could find was from an area that has not reported the problem at all.


If you are referring to this one from Tucson, that's the only one I am aware of to date. In this thread:

Block/Bypass 20.6.1 update on new Bolt? to "fix" H.264 Comcast
at this post:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939393#post10939393

Perhaps Tucson is unaffected for Roamio as well, in which case it's not a valid channel test. But that was believed to have been the case in Portland, that it was unaffected, since like Tucson we heard nothing Portland. And there might have been an old report that Bolt was fine in Portland. But 4 posters to TCF have now reported 6 channels over the last few days including BBCA going from 1080i to 720p and failing, so Portland looks to be in flux, but an unknown as to how long channels have been failing there since the reports are limited.

And Tucson might be affected as well, and could have been for some time, but no roamio users reporting (yet). Just the one bolt report, and we don't have a report from a roamio user in a comcast mpeg4 market who has been able to confirm no affected mpeg4 channels in their area. In other words, no one in Tucson or another market has posted: "I checked every mpeg4 channel for the buffer / record issue, paying special attention to those at 720p, and special attention to the networks that are failing elsewhere and not a single one had an issue." The first volunteer in Portland originally said he had no problem channels, but then when instructed on some channels to try and what to look for as far as the buffer indicators, he then reported failed recordings. Similar to portland, I asked the Tucson Bolt owner to look at a 
set of 720p suspect networks and test them, but did not hear back. So the one Bolt report we have isn't fully confirmed in my book - the person might not ever tune to / record the channels that have the problem.

Nor have I heard any ideas on how to:
"Block/Bypass 20.6.1 update on new Bolt? to "fix" H.264 Comcast"

Nor have I heard anything from Tivo claiming that Bolt is unaffected by the documented Roamio issue. Instead we just have comcast pointing to the software which Roamio and Bolt share, hence my reservation in updating Bolt to known faulty software. Nor have I heard anything from Tivo on my call to allow my Bolt to remain at 20.5.4 and block my tsn from receiving the 20.6.1 update. Nor has there been anything from Tivo commenting on the call to allow Roamios to run the older software, when standard practice in any other industry would be to roll back and revert to the last known working version, not hold hardware hostage on a known faulty version with no announced timetable on a fix.

Plus, Tivo's silence on the Bolt still communicates something. If Bolt was known to be unaffected, Tivo would come out and say so. Why wouldn't they? unless they are trying to obfuscate the Roamio issue and saying Bolt wasn't affected like the Roamio would be more damaging than remaining silent.

So I've got 7 h.264 channels to test the Bolt against at the moment. But the real question is now that it's August 2 (the comcast announced transition date for SF), how many other channels will be joining the club. I did a scan early this morning using spsrs method, and no new h.264, failing or working, at this point - still the same 7 mpeg4 channels, with the break down:
-6 failing channels on roamio
-1 roamio recordable - ESPN Deportes HD

I have confirmed the Bolt chipset is different from Roamio - hardware details at the above thread.

So more failing channels as a result of the migration could force my hand to take the update and roll the dice and give up on staying at pre 20.6.1 release. A Bolt confirmation would be nice in that respect rather than going in blind. Word from tivo would be nice as well.

Another issue in play is the 30 day return policy on this particular Bolt, which is more than half over. That will force my hand as well to take the update if no other option is present and the clock is running out. In other words, on day 29 if there is no option to stick at 20.5.4 I will take the update and if Bolt fails on 20.6.1 on the same channels as roamio then it will be returned.

Or if there is a case to be made that the Bolt may very well work where the roamio fails, I can be persuaded to take the update now vs. wait. But I've had that out there for over 2 weeks and no one has made a case that I should expect a different result with the same software other than my own observation and research confirming that it's a different chipset. So yes, that chipset variable could be the difference in working vs. failing.

But in the meantime, the Bolt doesn't offer me much of an upgrade and the 7 mpeg4 channels really aren't ones I would be recording anyway. Of course that channel count could go to dozens instead of just seven overnight if comcast follows through on the August 2 target date.

Here are the 7 channels I could test:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10942464#post10942464

so it would be a valid test, but not as strong a set of channels to work with compared to a Bolt owner in another city that has had a real mpeg4 migration (Chicago, Sacramento, Nashville), where there are lots of failing channels numbering in the teens to test on Bolt. SF isn't there at this point. But with the channels set in SF, it would be expected to either a) fail across the board on the same 6 channels that Roamio does or b) work on all 6 - either a or b, and no inbetween. Those are valid h.264 problem channels with all the earmark signs. None are of the fs1 unique variety. Here is the actual list:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939072#post10939072

And here's the July 19 post where I posted more on this, and there really hasn't been any progress in the 2 weeks since, nor since June really...



tivoyahoo said:


> Am trying to remember the last time I updated to software intentionally knowing in advance it is faulty.
> 
> If 20.5.4 works for h.264, that's what I want to keep
> 
> ...


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tivoyahoo,

I do not understand the logic behind leaving your Bolt out of service. If you're waiting for someone to come up with a scheme to prevent it from being updated, it ain't gonna happen.

Having more failing channels doesn't make the test any more valid. It either fails or it doesn't.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> Has Comcast ever _*publicly*_ acknowledged they changed something? Have even your engineers told you _*what*_ they changed or why?


No and no, but that's not what you said. Doesn't really matter, they can't/won't fix the problem they're just blaming Tivo.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> No and no, but that's not what you said. Doesn't really matter, they can't/won't fix the problem they're just blaming Tivo.


I wonder if you'd get a response asking in the Comcast Direct forum at DSL Reports? I doubt it.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> tivoyahoo,
> I do not understand the logic behind leaving your Bolt out of service. If you're waiting for someone to come up with a scheme to prevent it from being updated, it ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Having more failing channels doesn't make the test any more valid. It either fails or it doesn't.


yes, I see your point, but the flipside is what's the point of having it in service if it fails just like roamio. if it was such an upgrade, why haven't you or apparently any of "the usual suspects" following the roamio issue got a Bolt on their network? It just doesn't offer a lot to make the upgrade jump so it makes sense that thread posters don't have Bolts. Not much of an upgrade, except that it *might* work on the roamio failing channels. And right now, I don't have enough failing channels, but overnight that could change in a big way if Comcast holds to its August 2 migration date so I may be more willing to roll the dice hoping to find a recording solution once the stakes are raised since I'd have more to gain. and a Bolt will host mini.

And I think I answered some of that question in post #64 above, although I fouled up the intro to the links. the first link is the 7 channels I can test. The second link was from more than 2 weeks ago where I laid out the dilemma. At the time I thought there would be more known about the Bolt and Comcast mpeg4 by now, but we're still in the dark. And to add another piece, it's a Gen1 with a year of service included so I'd rather only start that year knowing it's going to work with all the mpeg4 channels. But again, no one has been able to confirm that Bolt does - not tivo, not any TCP posters.

So I guess I've just been waiting to see if we get answers. And there should be an answer tonight as to whether comcast migrates channels on the announced date or holds off.

However there is reason to believe Bolt won't fail with 20.5.4 if what comcast is saying is true, that the issue is isolated to 20.6.1. And there is reason to believe a roamio likewise wouldn't fail with older software. So like you, I don't want to run 20.6.1 on Roamio or Bolt. And I shouldn't have to. I want the the last known working version. I don't want a forced update. And I have an older version currently on the Bolt - I can see that at startup. So all tivo has to do is block the bolt tsn from receiving the update. if you're saying "that ain't gonna happen", I hear you. Granted, it's a longshot, but thought I'd give it a shot. And it's more likely that tivo would allow running the old version by simply blocking the bolt tsn update, than tivo is of pushing out an old version to your Roamio to revert it back. or sending us a PM saying we've got some roamio software we want you to test. All those scenarios are longshots, but not accepting an update seems like the most likely of those scenarios. And the likelihood of an software update in the near term also seems like a longshot, but also goes to why I've just played wait and see with it, to see if there was any real development on a fix.

So yeah, there's probably no hope of tivo accomodating the old version unless they have an active interest in knowing how my 20.5.4 test goes. But instead of doing that, they are announcing beta test software for S2 and S3 which I don't understand, especially since they have abandoned support and updates for TivoHD by not supplying 11.0n, and Tivo should be focusing resources on correcting this Roamio issue ahead of TivoHD, S3, and S2 anyway. Why are S3 and S2 getting test software, and not Roamio?

But maybe someone knows a way of glitching out of guided setup at a point where GS is complete, but where the update doesn't get applied, e.g. if I time the ethernet disconnect at the right time.

And doesn't Tivo keep 2 partitions of the OS, but is that only one on the pre-roamio models. But couldn't you before kickstart over to the other partition to boot? So another thought would be to kickstart over to the other partition, but maybe those days are gone.

So yes, thinking that there might be some way to boot up without booting into 20.6.1RC14 is probably nothing more than wishful thinking. But what good does another box do me that won't record channels if it ends up being the same situation as Roamio. Yes, I know the Bolt is an upgrade for the roamio basic on my network, but I'm happy with that roamio basic, so if the Bolt doesn't record the channels that Roamio doesn't, I don't see keeping it.

Who knows, maybe I can get one bootup out of 20.5.4 and test the channels. And if they work under 20.5.4 and then if the update being applied is unavoidable, then at least that isolates the issue to the software update. If the channels fail under 20.5.4 then that points more to something in the comcast stream that isn't compatible regardless. And would put comcast's statement on the issue being entirely 20.6.1, and not comcast's stream, in question. But didn't the Bolt have skip mode from day one, even with 20.5.4? so wouldn't bolt have failed from the beginning if the comcast stream was what it is now if it's related to skip mode? or maybe the theory is that it's only related to the skip mode fix in 20.6.1.

I would never have expected that this much time would pass without a Bolt report in a known affected market. Nor do I think it's too much to expect for Tivo to come out after a month's time and confirm if Bolt is not affected in the same way that the Roamio is. But rather than getting answers, we're just getting left in the dark on the Bolt.

So I guess I've been waiting for answers. And like I said, I might have a lot more failing roamio channels overnight in which case I'm more inclined to roll the dice to see if Bolt will record them with 20.6.1. Right now, the failing channels aren't much of an issue as far as being ones I watch / record.

And like I said, I'm interested in hearing what TCF has to say. Would the lpwcomp vote be:
- complete GS, try to glitch / block the update if you can, but if you can't so be it and let us know what happens with 20.6.1RC14 on the Bolt and if it works on the 6 problem channels in SF.

I'm pretty much resigned to that being the only option. And not going to hold my breath for some guy in Chicago (or Nashville, or Sacramento, or Atlanta, or....) to say on TCF: "hey, the 19 channels that won't record on my roamio do record on Bolt" maybe that will happen one day, but it hasn't. All we have is confirmed recordings of those channels on Premiere and TivoHD.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

If anybody has a spare Bolt sitting around, I'd be happy to take it off their hands - I'd even pay shipping! Of course, I'd also test it and post the results.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> yes, I see your point, but the flipside is what's the point of having it in service if it fails just like roamio. if it was such an upgrade, why haven't you or apparently any of "the usual suspects" following the roamio issue got a Bolt on their network? It just doesn't offer a lot to make the upgrade jump so it makes sense that thread posters don't have Bolts. Not much of an upgrade, except that it *might* work on the roamio failing channels. And right now, I don't have enough failing channels, but overnight that could change in a big way if Comcast holds to its August 2 migration date so I may be more willing to roll the dice hoping to find a recording solution once the stakes are raised since I'd have more to gain. and a Bolt will host mini.


I have never even considered buying a Bolt. I don't have a 4K TV and have no plans to acquire one. I have a Roamio Basic, a Pro, a Premiere and a Series 2, all but the Premiere with PLS. Why would I spend the money on a Bolt?

You on the other hand already have a Bolt. Is it intended to replace an existing unit or is it an addition? If a replacement, what model would it be replacing?



tivoyahoo said:


> And I think I answered some of that question in post #64 above, although I fouled up the intro to the links. the first link is the 7 channels I can test. The second link was from more than 2 weeks ago where I laid out the dilemma. At the time I thought there would be more known about the Bolt and Comcast mpeg4 by now, but we're still in the dark. And to add another piece, it's a Gen1 with a year of service included so I'd rather only start that year knowing it's going to work with all the mpeg4 channels. But again, no one has been able to confirm that Bolt does - not tivo, not any TCP posters


You purchased it from a third party then?


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## scottb (Dec 31, 2002)

Well, throw another Portland, OR Comcast Roamio customer into this group. This morning discovered no 30 minute buffer on the BBCAPH HD channel. Then found that the red light comes on for recording on the channel, but nothing results in NPL. Then found the same true with other HD channels: (not an issue with SD version of same channels):

HD Problem channel listing - Comcast Portland Oregon:
BBCAPH HD
Sportsman Channel HD
NAT GEO WILD HD

These above are the only channels I've found so far in my discovery that just started today.

Called TiVo support. They gathered diagnostics from my cablecard for 40 minutes and confirmed issue is not my Roamio. CCI bytes and Auth "S" are all as they should be. They are working on a fix. I got a case number too.

I won't bother contacting Comcast. They,d just go through a script and make me tear out a perfectly good cablecard, for nothing. I'm just glad to call in to TiVo to add my name for a priority fix.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

scottb said:


> HD Problem channel listing - Comcast Portland Oregon:
> BBCAPH HD
> Sportsman Channel HD
> NAT GEO WILD HD
> ...


Here are more to check and confirm from 5 previous posters on TCF in Portland area - the list keeps growing:
Bloomberg, NFL Redzone, WGNA, 715 VICEHD

Are you finding all of the problem channels to be on the same frequency? if you go back to earlier posts in this thread there are tools/recommendations for checking channels, e.g. focus on the 720p channels, as in discussed in post #36:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10947779#post10947779

at post #45 of this very same thread is a quote from danm628 on the day when BBCA started to fail, when it went from 1080i to 720p:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10950126#post10950126


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

scottb said:


> HD Problem channel listing - Comcast Portland Oregon:


For anyone seeing this thread from Portland area, jtrain has a roamio problem list that numbers 17 channels at post #377 that is the most comprehensive to date:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10956601#post10956601

Chevelleman, scottb, danm628, mmaben: take a look at posts #378 for channels that still need to be checked and the updates at post # 380 & 412 of that thread.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

rgr said:


> If anybody has a spare Bolt sitting around, I'd be happy to take it off their hands - I'd even pay shipping! Of course, I'd also test it and post the results.


rgr, if you're serious, there seem to be some bolts sitting around in retail channels and they seem to be on clearance. And there's been some recent success with roamio alternatives on h.264 channels where the roamio fails. Starting with, from the Bay Area thread, success on SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime beta DVR posted by keenanSR:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10954985#post10954985

Fry's (stores in Sac & Roseville) has the SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime on sale for $99 (normally $125) and no subscription needed, but I think that sale price might expire today (Saturday Aug6):
http://www.frys.com/product/6831116

and I think wuzznubbi who was following this thread might have been looking for tivo alternatives, so the SD certainly qualifies as one, and may have better luck with it as far as recording transfers. rgr, do you use kmttg to pull mpeg2 & mpeg4 recordings? wondering if you are experiencing these issues reported in Sac in kmttg thread - see this link:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10954892#post10954892



moyekj said:


> wuzznuubi issue is related to sync loss, not complete lack of video. singemfrc issue with mpeg2 video missing completely in a download I've never ran into or heard of before.


And then I've posted a Bolt test report running 20.5.4 with success at this link:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10957494#post10957494

Also, there are some fry's thread links on clearance pricing in that post on the Bolt. and discussion on Gen1 & 2.



lpwcomp said:


> I have never even considered buying a Bolt. I don't have a 4K TV and have no plans to acquire one. I have a Roamio Basic, a Pro, a Premiere and a Series 2, all but the Premiere with PLS. Why would I spend the money on a Bolt?
> 
> You on the other hand already have a Bolt. Is it intended to replace an existing unit or is it an addition? If a replacement, what model would it be replacing?


So I'm right with lpwcomp, no 4k tv, no near term plans for one. I'm probably happy on occasion when I can get 1080p content online and yes, apparently the bolt is a little more streamlined than Roamio with streaming. The reason I picked up the Bolt was that it was a Gen1 clearance purchase, perhaps the last one (or one of the last) in the state through Fry's, and with the Roamio issue, and SF comcast mpeg4 migration pending, it's an alternative I decided to pick up. But not necessarily a keeper since it's unproven.

I'm definitely not all-in on Bolt and ready to pay the all-in $$ on it. Now whether tivo will make some type of accomodation or not given the roamio failing is an unanswered question. And with a new bolt model presumably in the pipeline, that's another reason this might not be a keeper. And of course if it fails with 20.6.1 just like the roamio on the problem channels, then that's another strike as not being a keeper and I'm within my refund return period.

The best argument that Bolt may actually fully work is the lack of posts on Bolt failing - no reports. But I thought the same thing about Portland comcast mpeg4, that it was fully working there on Roamio since there were no reports, but now there have been numerous recent posters from Portland reporting failing channels and I think the count is now 17. So I'm cautious about the lack of evidence to date of Bolt failings as it may be a Portland situation where multiple reports come out of the woodwork almost overnight. Plus, Bolt runs the same software as Roamio, so how can one expect a different result if it's the 20.6.1 software as comcast claims.

So if you're looking for a Bolt or a Silicon Dust, might want to consider a stop at Fry's. And the department manager broached the subject of selling their warranty replacement and giving me another one should I have problems with the one being sold. To which we both laughed knowing that it was the last Gen 1 Bolt (according to their system) in any of the 6 Bay Area Fry's stores. And he said even the Gen2 were going away as his distributor had confirmed a new replacement model was on the way and they were getting rid of all the existing ones - ver 1 & 2, with a new model hopefully by end of summer he was thinking but it was wait and see. And he said he would replace the unit with that new model should I have any issues should I buy the replacement plan. Now how Tivo would handle the subscription and 1 year included in that scenario is another question. And is the Roamio Pro going to be a reality? only time will tell. And isn't the tivo buyout / merger in play as well? I haven't read the latest on the that. But all things in flux as well as how many channels might soon die in SF on Roamio - that can change overnight as well, although they moved 9 on thursday to h.264 (details in Bay Area thread).

*So Fry's (knowing the tivo situation) is very negotiable on Bolt pricing if you talk to the right manager, *but as far as a Gen1, links aren't showing stock in Northern CA:

Gen1 500:
http://www.frys.com/product/8627710 (nearest to CA is TX)

Gen1 1TB:
http://www.frys.com/product/8627720 (San Diego & OR)

But you could call the A/V department and have them physically check if any of the 4 bolt models (2 hd sizes x 2 gens = 4) are in stock as the computer system is often wrong on stock count. They will negotiate the price knowing it's the last in stock and if you tell them to check with their buyer that a new model is expected because that's the word in the Bay Area and the manager probably already knows that. So you may be able to negotiate some good pricing, and the Gen1 with year included certainly merits attention. But worst case is the 30 days for refund if it fails on channels or gets replaced by a new model. And then there's the Silicon Dust which looks to be confirmed working on the problem h.264, is on sale at $99, and has no subscription issue, whereas the Bolt is more $ upfront, needs a subscription, and is unproven on the h.264 problem channels.

And from reading the threads it sounds like Best Buy may have some Bolt stock in the back if you look hard. So there are Bolts sitting out there at retail stores that could be picked up.

And btw, you don't need to activate the bolt with tivo to test it. see my post link above. the tuners will all buffer without subscription, provided the card is active. but you don't even need to pair the cable card to test the 0x00 cci channels that are failing, which most of them are (0x00 not requiring pairing) on comcast. Card can be active in another tivo and thrown in Bolt and channels tested with no messing around with pairing, although there is a new online pairing tool from xfinity that I used, again see my post link, but no need for a new card and pairing to simply test.

I'm seeing an Amazon price of $138 "used" with free shipping through amazon warehouse deals, and if there happens to be one open box that is sitting in the warehouse that is the right upc (ver1) that would be one to target. but it's more likely a gen2 price. And I'm curious if Tivo will transfer one's roamio (or other model) pricing plan (if it's lower than current offerings, such as a grandfathered $9.95/month) to Bolt given the roamio situation and the roamio failings forcing the upgrade.

And the open box units and prior activation does raise another issue. With a retailer receipt, hopefully would be able to get tivo to honor the full 1 year. I did see in the fine print of tivo's service plans that they do seem to count units active less than 30 days as eligible, so if a unit was activated and then deactivated before 30 days was up and returned to retailer it would seem the 1 year would still be tied to it. Maybe there are some existing threads on this topic.

Finally, here's a recent thread comparing the bolt vs roamio (minus the h.264 roamio problem channel discussion):

TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer Vs. Roamio
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=540367

So let me know if you test Bolt and we can compare notes. Mine is at 20.5.4 and I'm contemplating whether to activate and test recording at 20.5.4. but that may take some negotiating with Tivo as to how they are going to handle this roamio situation. and if I'm looking at a box that is $15/month in a year or $150 annual then that's reason for pause. And it might end up going back to Fry's in the end. And I'm certainly reluctant to start into any subscription plan without knowing that 20.6.1 will work, so I may let the Bolt update to 20.6.1 unactivated and then test the buffering on problem channels as next move.

This is all way more complicated than it should be. And I'm really not expecting much in the way of help from Tivo support in sorting out their mess - look at this post from OP / thread starter in Atlanta of "The MPEG-4 letter from Comcast" and how Tivo is treating him:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10949774#post10949774



kupe said:


> Gawd I feel like a chump...


pretty much says it all. I thought the lack of support on the 11.0n update being made available was bad enough, but kupe's customer service story certainly tops that. And definitely gives pause on buying any tivo product, given how they seem to be dropping the ball. And going "all-in" on a tivo product seems out of the question in a comcast market. Even if they offered me $99 all in on one of my roamios I'd have to think about it at least til there's a fix, if there's a fix that is. The roamios won't host mini on the affected channels so it's a double whammy. Maybe Bolt with 20.6.1 will... but we're still in the dark.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Until we hear differently, I'm going to assume that the Bolt has the same problem as the Roamio.


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## alleybj (Dec 6, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> Until we hear differently, I'm going to assume that the Bolt has the same problem as the Roamio.


My bolt records bbcamerica, but my Roamio does not, in Atlanta, for what it's worth.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

LOL, I guess that definitely answers whether the Bolt is affected. Good News for Bolt owners -- not so great for Roamio owners. Kind of weird that both the earlier TivoHD and the later Bolt work but not the Roamio's.



alleybj said:


> My bolt records bbcamerica, but my Roamio does not, in Atlanta, for what it's worth.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mlcarson said:


> LOL, I guess that definitely answers whether the Bolt is affected. Good News for Bolt owners -- not so great for Roamio owners. Kind of weird that both the earlier TivoHD and the later Bolt work but not the Roamio's.


It is in fact very bad news for Roamio owners as it makes it more likely that the h/w is involved in some way.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> It is in fact very bad news for Roamio owners as it makes it more likely that the h/w is involved in some way.


I have to agree. If it's Roamio hardware then it is a bigger issue than resolution down conversion.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

alleybj said:


> My bolt records bbcamerica, but my Roamio does not, in Atlanta, for what it's worth.


Thank you alleybj. We've been hoping to hear a bolt report for some time. :up:

Might I ask if these buffer and record fine on your bolt too? and fail on roamio:
UPHD MTVLIVE UHD VICEHD DXDHD FS1

And you're at 20.6.1RC14 on the bolt, right (in Help -> System Info) ?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> It is in fact very bad news for Roamio owners as it makes it more likely that the h/w is involved in some way.


Exactly.


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## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

alleybj said:


> My bolt records bbcamerica, but my Roamio does not, in Atlanta, for what it's worth.





mlcarson said:


> LOL, I guess that definitely answers whether the Bolt is affected. Good News for Bolt owners -- not so great for Roamio owners. Kind of weird that both the earlier TivoHD and the later Bolt work but not the Roamio's.





lpwcomp said:


> It is in fact very bad news for Roamio owners as it makes it more likely that the h/w is involved in some way.





HarperVision said:


> I have to agree. If it's Roamio hardware then it is a bigger issue than resolution down conversion.


They are all different chipsets. I've spent enough years (25+) doing firmware (communications originally wired and now wireless) that I realize that every chipset is different. All the bugs are unique to a specific revision of a chip.

It is possible the Roamio won't work with the new Comcast setup. It's equally possible that it's a subtle setting issue in the chipset that needs to be fixed.

I've also done many software/firmware releases on products with millions of devices in the field. My external alpha testers could get it in a month or so after I fixed something. Of course the external alpha testers had to deny knowledge of the alpha test release. After that beta test could happen. That was larger and more public. But still a couple of months before a general release.

I remember when I fixed a connection issue in a brand S 56K modem with competing brand U modems. Brand U also released a fix. Brand S could connect to old brand U firmware with no problem. Brand U could could connect to old brand S with no problem. My fixed brand S modem couldn't connect to a fixed brand U modem. This annoyed a LOT of customers. (I talked to a brand U guy and we figured out a common fix.)

TiVo is trying to avoid the debacle I just described. They don't want to fix Comcast and break all the other operators.

I'm not ready to say the Roamio is doomed. We're 6 to 8 weeks past the initial discovery of the issue. So depending on the time to debug the cause and time to find the solution TiVo could be a few weeks from entering alpha testing or a few weeks into alpha testing. Either way we won't know about it. Which is the point of alpha.

Back in the day, I used to occasionally contact users who had a specific bug with our modems. I'd give them a one shot download for a one off version to fix their problem with the notice that it could make it worse given my testing limitations. When those fixes worked it was usually 3 months before it went out as a public release. Software fixes take time. You need to make sure you aren't breaking something else when you fix a problem.

At this point I'm ok with waiting on TiVo to fix things. Or not fix things. I expect it to at least 3 months and wouldn't be surprised if it was 4. So September or maybe October. I also don't expect them to say much till they have a fix they are willing to move to a public beta.

I will be annoyed all during that time. No buffer and no recording is not the way I'm used to watching TV.

- Dan


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

danm628 said:


> No buffer and no recording is not the way I'm used to watching TV.


Dan, thanks for the insightful post. are you seeing the same channels affected that jtrain posted from Beaverton?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

danm628 said:


> I will be annoyed all during that time. No buffer and no recording is not the way I'm used to watching TV.


Well to be fair there IS a workaround - simply deselect the HD channel and use the SD channel instead (and of course update 1Ps if they're set for the HD channel, ARWLs will work fine as-is). Yeah, it sucks but it's all we've got right now.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> rgr, if you're serious, there seem to be some bolts sitting around in retail channels and they seem to be on clearance. And there's been some recent success with roamio alternatives on h.264 channels where the roamio fails. Starting with, from the Bay Area thread, success on SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime beta DVR posted by keenanSR:
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10954985#post10954985


I'm serious to the extent that I'm willing to find a replacement if TiVo can't get their act together and get my Roamio working as advertised. If they can't, I'd not buy another TiVo product. Except to say that MAYBE I'd buy a discounted Bolt IF they transferred my lifetime subscription to it. It'd have to be discounted because I'd be losing 2 tuners (why did TiVo replace a 6-tuner model with a 4-tuner model?).

Has any of the Bolt users checked the display resolution on the affected channels? I'm wondering if the problem is something in the Roamio chipset that incorrectly reads the changed Comcast 1080p stream as 720i and so fails at recording. I have zero technical basis for thinking so other than the confluence of the change to H.264 and change from 1080 to 720 coinciding with the lack of recording and buffering.


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## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> Dan, thanks for the insightful post. are you seeing the same channels affected that jtrain posted from Beaverton?


I haven't had a chance to do a full check (busy at work and when off work the last week). The couple I did check matched the report from Beaverton.

I have VCT ID 4 which doesn't match. We do have a large river between us though so I'm not surprised there is a different head end.

- Dan


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

danm628 said:


> I also don't expect them to say much till they have a fix they are willing to move to a public beta.


Tivo hasn't even been willing to say the Bolt was unaffected by the issue despite comcast publicly stating the issue was with 20.6.1, with no mention that the issue was limited to Roamio models. But we have a 3rd Bolt report in 3 days...

Friday: 6 known problem channels in SF were reported as properly buffering on Bolt with 20.5.4 (link in post #74 of this thread)

Saturday: report on known problem channel BBCA Atlanta, software version unconfirmed (post #76 of this thread)



alleybj said:


> My bolt records bbcamerica, but my Roamio does not, in Atlanta, for what it's worth.


Today (Sunday 8/7): *3 known problem channels in SF reported as buffering/recording at 720p on Bolt 20.6.1RC14* in this thread:

Tivo Bolt w/Comcast Xfinity SF Bay Area Video Quality vs. DirecTV
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10958437#post10958437



rgr said:


> Has any of the Bolt users checked the display resolution on the affected channels? I'm wondering if the problem is something in the Roamio chipset that incorrectly reads the changed Comcast 1080p stream as 720i and so fails at recording. I have zero technical basis for thinking so other than the confluence of the change to H.264 and change from 1080 to 720 coinciding with the lack of recording and buffering.


No reports of Premiere or TivoHD seeing a different resolution than Roamio on the known problem channels, has always been seen as h.264/720p on the channels at issue regardless of platform. And the latest Bolt report matches those 720p results:



davahad said:


> I checked the 3 channels and was able to RW, FF, Skip and replay the buffer. Also recorded on each channel and played back with no problem.
> 
> My Bolt is running 20.6.1RC14 and the info for each of the above channels says 720P. Glad to know the Bolt does not have this issue.


I've managed to keep the 20.5.4 Bolt running with 20.5.4 for 2 days (ethernet disconnected, no forced pending restart/reboot - just keeps rescheduling the next connection 11-14 hours out each after each fail) but based on the latest confirmation, time to update to 20.6.1 and I'll report on all 6 known problem channels in SF, 3 of which were already tested by davahad. Although perhaps part of the reason Bolt hasn't updated is that it hasn't been activated?? Account Status=7: Never Been Activated. I'll put it through some connections and reboots and find out if it takes the update without activation. But a couple things I've noticed:

1) can't see the resolution from comcast because channel banner simply shows Tivo Service Suspended. and the rest is empty no channel banner. And there are no recordings to playback so I can't enter spsrs viewing mode. and kmttg times out trying to connect to the manually entered ip address of the Bolt so that's a dead end, won't backdoor in.

2) dual ota & cable configuration failed with 20.5.4 - more on that at this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10958483#post10958483

And then backtracking to post #58 from Aug2:


mlcarson said:


> If it's a Tivo problem and it doesn't affect the Bolt, transfer my Roamio Basic lifetime subscription to a new Bolt and we'll call it even.


Comcast points the finger at 20.6.1, but it looks like 20.6.1 works now not only with Premiere, but with Bolt:


> The Tivo engineering team looked at the issue and discovered that this behavior was introduced in the Q3.9 (20.6.1) TiVo release as a result of some changes that support certain features on MPEG4 channels.


So I'm wondering if even an older version of the software on Roamio would fail with whatever is currently in the comcast stream on the problem channels, i.e. if it's a hardware incompatibility (chipset) regardless of what software version Roamio is running. Because if a fix (one that incorporates the skip mode fix) is really months away, why not roll back to RC12 or earlier for roamios in affected markets? if earlier versions don't work with the current comcast stream, then a rollback to earlier software is pointless. And there will be calls for tivo to provide some sort of accomodation if a fix is really that far out. But is there a single report of tivo even issuing a monthly service credit on an affected Roamio?

And for completeness, there is this July 19 Bolt mpeg4 report, but still no reported problem channels on Roamio in Tucson:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939393#post10939393



rjrsouthwest said:


> Here in Tucson I have the new 20.6.1 software on my V1 Bolt since I got it a couple of months back and have no problem recording the H.264 Comcast channels and Comcast started changing to the H.264 channels here in Tucson last December. I personally know the head Comcast engineer for the SW area and he verified to me that the switch over to H.264 has completed in my area.


I'd still like to know more about what's going on in Tucson and what formats comcast is using there and if 1080i networks are delivered as 1080i, such as BBCA.


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## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> Tivo hasn't even been willing to say the Bolt was unaffected by the issue despite comcast publicly stating the issue was with 20.6.1, with no mention that the issue was limited to Roamio models. But we have a 3rd Bolt report in 3 days...


A long time ago, in an Internet far, far away...

I used to post from work to Usenet. A few companies back in the employment history. I would answer questions, I would ask people about bugs they saw. I identified who I worked for but I never identified what I did at the company. I never said I was the lead firmware engineer in charge of all their products. I was the person who was responsible for their bugs and for the fixes. My name, my reputation in the industry, was on the line though I didn't tell random customers that.

Unfiltered Usenet reports were the best bug reports I could get. Especially when I could ask questions. Usually by asking for undocumented debug options to produce state machine logs. I was the only person on the planet who could read the logs. Solved many bugs that way.

Our tech support knew I was online and occasionally would point me at someone whose problem they couldn't figure out.

I would contact a few people via email when I thought I might have a fix for them.

All fairly public. All still online 20 years later if you know where to look. Best debugging I've ever had. We were shipping 3 to 4 million units a month and I had thousands of users posting on comp.dcom.modems.

Lawyers... _Lawyers..._ *Lawyers got involved. *

I was told to stop talking. I could still read the messages since that was the best source of bug reports I could find. But I had been told that I shouldn't talk with them. I still did on a very limited basis (i.e. I had talked with them before the ban and continued even though I had been told to stop). But my heavy involvement stopped.

In the modern world if I was TiVo I wouldn't say anything. Too big of a chance of someone saying something that would result in a lawsuit. Unfortunately this legal view of things slows the debugging engineers can do.

It's why I can tell when I'm in a really serious alpha test program. I have to sign a printed NDA and mail it back. No signed NDA, it's really a public test release.

At this point anyone who knows what is going on is under an NDA. Until the fix is public it will be that way.

I don't like this version of modern development. But it's the way the last 25 years of lawsuits of driven things.

- Dan

P.S. This is also why I'm *VERY* glad I am in research prototypes now. I don't have to worry about millions of people having problems. I worry about a dozen people at most. They all have my mobile number. They all understand this is a research prototype. Fewer lawyers (still have them for import/export issues). Less legal stress. More international travel (which wears me out). Still lots of technology stress but that can be fun.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

I transferred a recording on my TivoHD from one 1280x720p source that works on the Tivo Roamio (Fox News) and one that doesn't (BBCAPHD). Mediainfo shows that the working one is recorded as AVC ([email protected]). The one that doesn't work is AVC ([email protected]). Could there be anything to this difference or purely coincidence? I can play back both recordings on the Roamio once they have been transferred.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mlcarson said:


> I transferred a recording on my TivoHD from one 1280x720p source that works on the Tivo Roamio (Fox News) and one that doesn't (BBCAPHD). Mediainfo shows that the working one is recorded as AVC ([email protected]). The one that doesn't work is AVC ([email protected]). Could there be anything to this difference or purely coincidence? I can play back both recordings on the Roamio once they have been transferred.


Can you try more recordings of the non working ones and see if they're also AVC [email protected] or maybe some other differences? I don't think one example (BBCAPHD) is enough to make a legitimate analysis. Once you see the same thing in many or all of the ones that don't work, then maybe it means something.

Great sleuthing though! :up:


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## pdxrunr (Dec 17, 2004)

Another confirmation in Portland. Showtime on 876 and 878 will play, but not record on my Roamio. Works fine on my Tivo HD.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

mlcarson said:


> I transferred a recording on my TivoHD from one 1280x720p source that works on the Tivo Roamio (Fox News) and one that doesn't (BBCAPHD). Mediainfo shows that the working one is recorded as AVC ([email protected]). The one that doesn't work is AVC ([email protected]). Could there be anything to this difference or purely coincidence? I can play back both recordings on the Roamio once they have been transferred.


Maybe the Roamio hardware/software can't process Level 3.2 profile. Maybe it's something in the header of the file after being processed. I know very little about AVC encoding profiles but I have read that those levels factor into determining the output resolution and bitrate, beyond that I have no idea.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

mlcarson said:


> Mediainfo shows that the working one is recorded as AVC ([email protected]). The one that doesn't work is AVC ([email protected]).


Interesting, yes are there more [email protected] failing channels and more [email protected] channels that are working on roamio where there is more of a correlation? do the failing channels have anything unique in common that you're seeing?

Glad you got an 11.0n image or pulled the update download finally and are able to inspect the problem channels more closely. :up: Please keep us posted. Sounds like 11.0n may get superseded by a new beta update for TivoHD as soon as this week:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542199

have you run into any freezing on mpeg4 on the tivo hd with 11.0n discussed here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10812041#post10812041


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

pdxrunr said:


> Another confirmation in Portland. Showtime on 876 and 878 will play, but not record on my Roamio. Works fine on my Tivo HD.


Wow, I'm utterly shocked now if Comcast is down converting a premium channel that you have to pay extra for like Showtime from 1080i to 720p too!!!  Can you check the native resolution and see what it reports? Hit the right arrow button while on the channel and look on the right hand side of the menu that pops up.

This is getting ridiculous and I am so happy I'm not in a Comcast area! I would drop them like a hot potato if I were, especially if I had FiOS as an option!

I'm flabbergasted that more Comcast customers aren't storming the gates of Comcast's corporate office with pitchforks over this utter BS they're trying to pull!


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## pdxrunr (Dec 17, 2004)

720p


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Wow, I'm utterly shocked now if Comcast is down converting a premium channel that you have to pay extra for like Showtime from 1080i to 720p too!!!


Showtime was already failing in Sacramento along with HBOLatino. Probably same in Santa Maria too since those areas seem to mirror each other.

btw, mcarlson, do you have anything new on
785 NFLNRZD in free preview mode?
808 HBOLPHD, 815 GALAHD, 820 OWNHD is it on air?

So multiple cities. and Cinemax and HBO Signature are on the problem list as well as NFL Red Zone too...

CINHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinemax
H.264/720p failing - Chi, SM
H.264 confirmed for Sac, but untested due to lack of subscription
MPEG2 HD - SF

HBO SIGNATURE 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO#Channels
H.264/720p failing - Nash
MPEG2 SD - SF

SHOWHD 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showtime_(TV_network)
H.264/720p - Sacramento
MPEG2 HD - SF
unreported: Santa Maria


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> based on the latest confirmation, time to update to 20.6.1 and I'll report on all 6 known problem channels in SF, 3 of which were already tested by davahad.


Tested the remaining 3 left untested and all properly buffer on Bolt 20.6.1RC14:
677 BeIN2HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
679 FXDEPHD Fox Deportes HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
680 UNVSPHD NBC Universo HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz

and confirmed these properly buffer as well:
775 WGNAPHD WGN America HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
820 OWNHD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz
823 P12BAHD Pac 12 Network Bay Area HD H.264 / 720p 243MHz

more confirmation that Bolt 20.6.1RC14 is :up:
hasn't been confirmed as working with mini on the roamio problem channels but no reason to believe it wouldn't


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

pdxrunr said:


> 720p


Utterly ridiculous!


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

Every non-working channel here is AVC [email protected] The working H.264 720P channel that I tried was AVC [email protected] I think it's suspicious.

The last channel that I tried 838 (MAXHD) rebooted the Tivo when I stopped the recording. I was only doing short recordings (30 secs or under) and moving on. I think if you do a lot of stuff like this you just risk instability. The previous stops took about 5-10 secs before video would return on these H.264 channels.

Log showed:
Tmk Fatal Error: Activity TvVideoGutsActivity <340> strayed!
TmK Fatal Error: Activity TvVideoGutsActivity <340>: assertion failure
Invoking rule 834: rebooting system

Normal scheduled recording and watching TV hasn't showed a problem yet on the TivoHD.

808,815,820 are on the air and don't work properly on the Roamio. They showed AVC ([email protected]).



HarperVision said:


> Can you try more recordings of the non working ones and see if they're also AVC [email protected] or maybe some other differences? I don't think one example (BBCAPHD) is enough to make a legitimate analysis. Once you see the same thing in many or all of the ones that don't work, then maybe it means something.
> 
> Great sleuthing though! :up:


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

mlcarson said:


> The working H.264 720P channel that I tried was AVC [email protected]


is that fox news? data on just that one working channel? I did notice it has a 1080p entry here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel
so maybe it's mastered at higher level?

what do other working h.264/720p show up as? such as 803 FXXHD? or h.264/1080i channels? sounds like you found a pattern on the non-working.



mlcarson said:


> The last channel that I tried 838 (MAXHD) rebooted the Tivo when I stopped the recording.


It rebooted the TivoHD? that's odd. did it freeze up prior to the reboot? tivo has acknowledged issues with 11.0n.



mlcarson said:


> 808,815,820 are on the air and don't work properly on the Roamio. They showed AVC ([email protected]).


ok, thanks that matches up with Sacramento except 820 OWN has been off air / no signal in Sac at last report and it'll be interesting if it comes back as a working roamio channel as that would be a first. 785 red zone - hasn't gone into free preview yet still? so you can't tell on that one if it's a roamio fail I presume.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

803 FXXHD is AVC [email protected] and is working on the Roamio.
760 FNCHD is the same AVC [email protected] and works on Roamio.
741 FXPHD is the same AVC [email protected] and works on Roamio.

I can check any other working 720P channel that you like but just don't have a list of them handy.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mlcarson said:


> Every non-working channel here is AVC [email protected] The working H.264 720P channel that I tried was AVC [email protected] I think it's suspicious. The last channel that I tried 838 (MAXHD) rebooted the Tivo when I stopped the recording. I was only doing short recordings (30 secs or under) and moving on. I think if you do a lot of stuff like this you just risk instability. The previous stops took about 5-10 secs before video would return on these H.264 channels. Log showed: Tmk Fatal Error: Activity TvVideoGutsActivity <340> strayed! TmK Fatal Error: Activity TvVideoGutsActivity <340>: assertion failure Invoking rule 834: rebooting system Normal scheduled recording and watching TV hasn't showed a problem yet on the TivoHD. 808,815,820 are on the air and don't work properly on the Roamio. They showed AVC ([email protected]).





mlcarson said:


> 803 FXXHD is AVC [email protected] and is working on the Roamio. 760 FNCHD is the same AVC [email protected] and works on Roamio. 741 FXPHD is the same AVC [email protected] and works on Roamio. I can check any other working 720P channel that you like but just don't have a list of them handy.


Excellent work, Sherlock!  Definitely a suspicious pattern.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Can you try more recordings of the non working ones and see if they're also AVC [email protected] or maybe some other differences? I don't think one example (BBCAPHD) is enough to make a legitimate analysis. Once you see the same thing in many or all of the ones that don't work, then maybe it means something.
> 
> Great sleuthing though! :up:


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10950493&highlight=#post10950493


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

Beaverton, OR Market

The most recent recording I have that actually works properly from BBCA HD (793) is the final episode of the show "Thirteen" that aired on Thursday, July 21. It is a full/complete recording and has no problems displaying on the Roamio Plus or TiVo mini. TiVo info screen shows the recording as 1080i.

The issue in Beaverton must have started after at least that air date.

As an aside, I watched the latest season of Orphan Black on BBCA (as it aired or within +7 window) and had no issues with those episodes either, even though the problem w/ BBCA looks like it started in other markets some time ago.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Excellent work, Sherlock!  Definitely a suspicious pattern.


:up:
and lpwcomp's guardians of the galaxy show the same pattern
[email protected] working on Roamio
[email protected] failing on Roamio

Plus lpwcomp's files establish a timeline for a single program (Guardians) and all at h.264/720p:
a) [email protected] working on Roamio RC12 (sometime in early june or earlier)
b) [email protected] working on Roamio RC14 (after RC14 update somtime around mid june)
c) [email protected] edit: *failing* on Roamio RC14 (latter june or later)

if I'm interpreting the data correctly that seems to be the best evidence of the comcast stream changing post RC14. and where the variable wasn't RC14 in terms of the point at which the roamio failed. but certainly RC14 may have already been vulnerable, at least in terms of Roamio. and perhaps [email protected] would fail on Roamio with RC12 as well in which case a software rollback wouldn't solve it since the stream changed.

lpwcomp, do you have recordings from BBCA that have a similar pattern and timeline?

Here's mediainfo on 820 Own from February when the channel was working as h.264/1080i as [email protected]:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...an-francisco-ca-comcast-519.html#post41921137

the channel is now h.264/720p and roamio failing. mcarlson, can you record 820 Own on the tivo hd and see if it's now [email protected] ?

isn't 3.2 effectively a more compressed version? to allow less qam bandwidth space?

as I was saying the other day, the 1080i=>720p might have been serving to mask/distract from an underlying cause and the stream needed a deeper dive into what was there. and this certainly merits attention based on early data. nice spot mcarlson. :up:


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

kokishin said:


> In the SF Bay Area, these channels have been transcoded to 720P by Comcast and are no buffer/no record


mcarlson has a much bigger list of non working roamio channels in his area than those 3 in SF (see post #5 of this thread) and I think that count is up to around 17 channels for his area and Sac as they mirror each other except 797 MGMHD and their list is one to watch since SF may go that same transition route.

it's the working h.264/720p he doesn't have a list handy for in order to check if any are [email protected]



mlcarson said:


> I can check any other working 720P channel that you like but just don't have a list of them handy.


mcarlson, try spsrs to scan through and identify 0:0 720p working channels. but I think this list will get you started even if not comprehensive:

741 FXPHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX_(TV_channel)
757 NGCPHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...raphic_Channel
760 FNCHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel
761 FBNHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Business_Network
768 FRFMHDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeform_(TV_channel)
769 DISNHDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Channel
803 FXXPHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FXX

and on the non-working list, I believe lpwcomp's guardian media info is from this network failing in Santa Maria and Atlanta:
763 DXDHDP

and scratch this from prior post:


tivoyahoo said:


> the channel is now h.264/720p and roamio failing. mcarlson, can you record 820 Own on the tivo hd and see if it's now [email protected] ?


since I lost track and you've already tested it:


mlcarson said:


> 808,815,820 are on the air and don't work properly on the Roamio. They showed AVC ([email protected]).


so the pattern holds true for 820 OWN since we have old data from Feb where it was [email protected] and working and new data with [email protected] failing.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

jtrain said:


> Beaverton, OR Market
> 
> The most recent recording I have that actually works properly from BBCA HD (793) is the final episode of the show "Thirteen" that aired on Thursday, July 21. It is a full/complete recording and has no problems displaying on the Roamio Plus or TiVo mini. TiVo info screen shows the recording as 1080i.
> 
> ...


I think BBCA was failing elsewhere by June, certainly by July, and Portland became the 6th known city where BBCA is failing. The Portland info is spread over 3 threads, but this post details BBCA and points to posts where danm628 has the changeover from 1080i to 720p pinpointed to around july 27-28 based on when his recordings were successful and then failed, but that is for across the river - Vancouver, WA vct id 4, and jtrain you're VCT ID: 3 beaverton, so the timing may be different, and I suppose could be very different for Portland areas. It's clear the channel maps are not consistent across the board in Portland area and have some big differences, whereas in California cities hundreds of miles apart can share a common channel map (Sacramento & Santa Maria, and then SF only has minor differences from that pair). BBCA link:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10957500#post10957500



danm628 said:


> BBCA wasn't H.264 on Thursday of this week. I have successful 1080i recordings from yesterday on BBCA.


so it would be useful to pull mediainfo on those 1080i recordings prior to the fail and confirm if they were mpeg2 or not. and look at [email protected] vs [email protected]

also, *does anyone in Portland have a TivoHD, Premiere, or Bolt to record BBCA going forward so that the new recordings could be checked as to [email protected] vs [email protected] ?*


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

As late as June 16, BBCAHD was working on Roamio. Recording is 1080i/H.264 Profile: High/4.0. Recording made on Premiere on July 29 is H.264/720P Profile High/3.2.

If I xfer the recording from the Premiere to the Roamio, it plays fine.

This points more and more to what I conjectured a while back - it is a combination of the change Comcast made and the fix to Skip Mode on H.264 recordings on the Roamio with the possible addition of the h/w although the latter may just mean that they had to implement it differently from the Bolt due to h/w differences.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> As late as June 16, BBCAHD was working on Roamio. Recording is 1080i/H.264 Profile: High/4.0. Recording made on Premiere on July 29 is H.264/720P Profile High/3.2.


interesting. is FS1 fitting the same profile? btw, new help thread on FS1, OP may be in CA based on channel number, but CA reports have been that it won't buffer or record.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542440


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10950493&highlight=#post10950493


Awesome thanks for pointing that out! I do remember reading that post now. I don't understand the use of "spoiler" though? Why not just post it in the main body so it's seen right away. It's not like you're giving away the ending of a movie or some trade secrets or Hillary's deleted top secret emails or anything!


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I don't understand the use of "spoiler" though? Why not just post it in the main body so it's seen right away.


 just so the post doesn't fill up an entire page and allows the reader to selectively view those long portions. perfect time to use it :up: on those long media dumps, especially with 6 of them in one post


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> interesting. is FS1 fitting the same profile? btw, new help thread on FS1, OP may be in CA based on channel number, but CA reports have been that it won't buffer or record.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542440


FS1 appears to be completely different. It sometimes works OK and sometimes is wonky. I just recorded 3m25sec and d/l'd to computer. VRD says the recording is H.264/720P High/4.0.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> 741 FXPHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX_(TV_channel)
> 757 NGCPHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...raphic_Channel
> 760 FNCHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel
> 761 FBNHD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Business_Network
> ...


All of the above channels are working and show as AVC ([email protected]).
769 I had to do from my TivoHD since it was DRM'd but it is L4.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

mlcarson said:


> 769 I had to do from my TivoHD since it was DRM'd but it is L4.


mfs ftp?
but why is disney 0x02?

what's 731 fs1 looking like? can you get some partial recording / buffering on roamio in Lompoc? I thought rgr posted no buffer/ no record in Sac on FS1. this new poster may be in CA based on channel number and describes what's going on:



Spoiler



sorry, no top secret emails for anyone that had their hopes up (Harper)  but...


TurboRay said:


> My recording and playback of NHRA drag racing on FS1 (Comcast "731"......changed from ESPN2 for 2016) was working well until approx a month ago. But, for the last 3-4 "Season-Pass" event recordings, playback can only be done if I refrain from using ANY of the "navigation" features.
> 
> If I try to pause, move forward (to zip thru commercials), move back or navigate thru the recording in ANY WAY........the playback jumps back to the beginning, to the end or to some other "landmark point" in the recording. Other times, I'll get a black screen, along with the "donk" sound when trying to navigate. IOW, making it virtually impossible to view in a _normal_ manner.
> 
> The only way I can view the recording is to watch it in its entirety, from start to finish - including all commercials, interviews and content that I don't care for. This phenomenon doesn't occur on any other channels besides FS1 (at least none that I've discovered). Is anyone else experiencing similar probs? Is it possible for FS1 to encode their broadcasts in such a way that prevents skipping thru the commercials?


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

731 is broken and records as AVC ([email protected]) on the TivoHD.
1280x720 resolution just like all of the other broken channels.



tivoyahoo said:


> mfs ftp?
> but why is disney 0x02?
> 
> what's 731 fs1 looking like? can you get some partial recording / buffering on roamio in Lompoc? I thought rgr posted no buffer/ no record in Sac on FS1. this new poster may be in CA based on channel number and describes what's going on:
> ...


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

tivoyahoo said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, no top secret emails for anyone that had their hopes up (Harper)  but...


This occurred for me on FS1 last evening w/ the NY Red Bulls vs. LA Galaxy MLS game. Realized FS1 was showing a buffer so I hit record. It recorded the entire game, but as stated above, I could not ffw/rw or navigate to tickmarks at all. On the Mini upstairs it shows only as a 25min partial recording, is viewable only from the point I started the recording (about halftime-ish), but the recording may not be navigated w/ ffw, rw or skip to tick. SO WEIRD.

Yet, later on in the evening, again, I was unable to get a buffer or record any shows on FS1, just empty recordings once more.

Somehow I'm not too optimistic this is something that will be resolved anytime soon. Which is unfortunate, esp. from a resale perspective of TiVo hardware in a market where channels are broken for the Roamio.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Utterly ridiculous!


I pm'd ComcastTeds over on the Comcast forums asking about an update as to why 1080i channels are being delivered as 720p and here is his response:



> "Apologies for the delay in responding. I was out of the office for a few days and just returned today.
> 
> Some of your HD Channels have transitioned from 1080i to 720p60. As part of our ongoing work to improve and modernize the way we deliver HD channels, we are transitioning all of our HD streams to progressive format. We are making this change in conjunction with the transition to MPEG-4. This means that some channels that were delivered in 1080i will now be delivered in 720p60.
> 
> ...


Now, I know 1080i is obviously interlaced, so two scans are necessary to get a full image and that 720p isn't, but I am still unclear as to which is BEST.

Any opinions on ComcastTEDs reply, and the 1080i vs 720p question?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I guess we can save money on the cheaper 720p televisions.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> what's 731 fs1 looking like? can you get some partial recording / buffering on roamio in Lompoc? I thought rgr posted no buffer/ no record in Sac on FS1. this new poster may be in CA based on channel number and describes what's going on:


Odd. I tested 731 FS1 at 1:55pm and could buffer and record - the program was Soccer. To confirm, I set the 2:00 program - NASCAR -to record. Just checked to see if the reording started, and no recording to view (although still in My Shows as recording. Went to live and no buffer. Stranger and stranger.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> just so the post doesn't fill up an entire page and allows the reader to selectively view those long portions. perfect time to use it :up: on those long media dumps, especially with 6 of them in one post


Yeah, figured that, but there's certainly some seriously long posts here so what's the harm in one more?


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yeah, figured that, but there's certainly some seriously long posts here so what's the harm in one more?


raising my hand as guilty. but you want to talk spoilers - how about comcast finally answers on 1080i => 720p. is that in response to your xfinity thread start harper?


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

tivoyahoo said:


> raising my hand as guilty. but you want to talk spoilers - how about comcast finally answers on 1080i => 720p. is that in response to your xfinity thread start harper?


Just checked Harper's post over on the Comcast forums, and ComcastTeds gave the exact same answer there as he did to my pm.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

rgr said:


> > Originally Posted by HarperVision
> > Utterly ridiculous!
> 
> 
> ...


That is utter and complete horsecrap. Spoken like a true engineer being pressured by his marketing superiors!!!


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

found the xfinity thread harper started:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-being-changed-to-720p60-channels/m-p/2778182

is there another thread link too? Harper, are you going to give your response some build up with a spoiler tag? the stage is yours. And speaking of building up, I'm sensing some volcanic activity in the islands that might erupt


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

ok, you beat me to the submit message. but how long before a new thread start or follow up on the [email protected] vs. [email protected] in the place of the 720p vs. 1080i question?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> found the xfinity thread harper started:
> http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-being-changed-to-720p60-channels/m-p/2778182
> 
> is there another thread link too? Harper, are you going to give your response some build up with a spoiler tag? the stage is yours. And speaking of building up, I'm sensing some volcanic activity in the islands that might erupt





tivoyahoo said:


> ok, you beat me to the submit message. but how long before a new thread start or follow up on the [email protected] vs. [email protected] in the place of the 720p vs. 1080i question?


Here is what I replied over there. I'm mainly putting it here in case they delete it over there, which I'm sure they will!



> *ComcastTeds Said:*
> "Apologies for the delay in responding. I was out of the office for a few days and just returned today.
> 
> Some of your HD Channels have transitioned from 1080i to 720p60. As part of our ongoing work to improve and modernize the way we deliver HD channels, we are transitioning all of our HD streams to progressive format. We are making this change in conjunction with the transition to MPEG-4. This means that some channels that were delivered in 1080i will now be delivered in 720p60.
> ...





> *HarperVision Said:*
> Seriously??? You and I both know that's total marketing speak and not true! I certainly hope the channel owners that you're destroying the channel resolutions of know about this! I have two immediate family members that have Comcast and I am telling you NOW that I am going to be helping them change over to FiOS in one instance and DirecTV in the other (FiOS not available there). This is the last time I or anyone I can influence will be a Comcast customer if this so called "upgrade" isn't reversed! I hope and pray others follow my lead and someone in the press gets hold of this and releases it so your unwitting "customers" know what is REALLY happening and what Comcast REALLY cares about....money! So much for integrity.
> 
> (I'm sure you'll delete this thread or at least my posts to cover up everything, right? If so, I hope you sleep well at night.)


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

3 threads on this issue at xfinity? trying to get a handle on this. looks like 2nd thread got moved/merged with first. But are there others out there too on xfinity? 3 threads on TCF where this gets discussed heavily counting this one (plus the big one, and the bay area thread). and I know there is at least one on Tivo Support.

1080i channels are being changed to 720p60 channels
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-being-changed-to-720p60-channels/m-p/2778182

Can view but not record some h.264 channels - TiVo/Cablecard/Sacramento
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...me-h-264-channels-TiVo-Cablecard/td-p/2777328

Tivo Roamio not able to record, FF or REW a specific channel (BBC America in Atlanta)
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-FF-or-REW-a-specific-channel-BBC/m-p/2774044


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> That is utter and complete horsecrap. Spoken like a true engineer being pressured by his marketing superiors!!!


Yup, total crap.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I'm sure Comcast's competition would LOVE to know this fact now so they can use it in their next ad campaign! Hmmmm, maybe I have some emails and calls to make?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I sure as heck hope that TiVo deploys a fix before Comcast converts any more channels.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> Here is what I replied over there. I'm mainly putting it here in case they delete it over there, which I'm sure they will!


You should inquire if they plan to crap on (transcode to 720p) Comcast owned channels such as Comcast Sports regional network channels, NBC TV Network, NBC Sports Network, CNBC, MSNBC, Bravo, Sprout, USA, Golf Channel, Syfy, and others under the NBC Universal corporate umbrella, which I believe are NOT affected by this transcoding crapola.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

kokishin said:


> You should inquire if they plan to crap on (transcode to 720p) Comcast owned channels such as Comcast Sports regional network channels, NBC TV Network, NBC Sports Network, CNBC, MSNBC, Bravo, Sprout, USA, Golf Channel, Syfy, and others under the NBC Universal corporate umbrella, which I believe are NOT affected by this transcoding crapola.


Great point and great idea! But maybe you or someone else should go there and ask this, so they see that's it's more than just one lunatic like me that has an issue with this BS.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

kokishin said:


> You should inquire if they plan to crap on (transcode to 720p) Comcast owned channels such as Comcast Sports regional network channels, NBC TV Network, NBC Sports Network, CNBC, MSNBC, Bravo, Sprout, USA, Golf Channel, Syfy, and others under the NBC Universal corporate umbrella, which I believe are NOT affected by this transcoding crapola.


I think they already crapped in their own nest - some examples:

in SF and Sacramento (perhaps santa maria too):
680 UNVSPHD NBC Universo HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz failing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC_Universo

SPROUT 1080i https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprout_(TV_network)
H.264/720p failing - Nash
MPEG2 HD - SF
MPEG2 SD - Atl


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> I guess we can save money on the cheaper 720p televisions.


If you can even find one.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

tivoyahoo said:


> I think they already crapped in their own nest - some examples:
> 
> in SF and Sacramento (perhaps santa maria too):
> 680 UNVSPHD NBC Universo HD H.264 / 720p 249 MHz failing
> ...


Even worse, discrimination against Latinos and kids! PR nightmare just waiting to happen.

I just checked 680 and it's crapped on (no buffer/no record) like you mentioned. I have it zeroed out on my Tivo channel selects so I normally never view it. Checked Sprout on 770 and it's still 1080i. Dodged a bullet!


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> Great point and great idea! But maybe you or someone else should go there and ask this, so they see that's it's more than just one lunatic like me that has an issue with this BS.


I'm watching the US Basketball team play Venezuela right now (half time). Later I'll muster up the energy to go register on the Comcast Teds site and lob some turds in their direction.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I'm sure Comcast's competition would LOVE to know this fact now so they can use it in their next ad campaign!


I know you have a beef with comcast on the issue of giving you 11 ounces in a 12 oz can, and the mention of ad campaign has this old one stuck in my head - Harper looking at his undersized coke and burger courtesy of comcast trimming it down but meanwhile trying to tell him that he got the supersize meal upgrade @60 fps ...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tivoyahoo said:


> I know you have a beef with comcast on the issue of giving you 11 ounces in a 12 oz can, and the mention of ad campaign has this old one stuck in my head - Harper looking at his undersized coke and burger courtesy of comcast trimming it down but meanwhile trying to tell him that he got the supersize meal upgrade @60 fps ...


 :up:


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> I sure as heck hope that TiVo deploys a fix before Comcast converts any more channels.


I told you this was a bigger issue!


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

What would be the motivation for TiVo to provide a fix for this? If they can endlessly blame Comcast for the problem, all the while wanting customers to move to the Bolt over the Roamio? I'm having a hard time convincing myself that extensive resources will be used to solve this on TiVo's side.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

jtrain said:


> What would be the motivation for TiVo to provide a fix for this? If they can endlessly blame Comcast for the problem, all the while wanting customers to move to the Bolt over the Roamio? I'm having a hard time convincing myself that extensive resources will be used to solve this on TiVo's side.


Who's bigger? Comcast doesn't care about TiVo. Blaming Comcast will get them nowhere.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

jtrain said:


> What would be the motivation for TiVo to provide a fix for this? If they can endlessly blame Comcast for the problem, all the while wanting customers to move to the Bolt over the Roamio? I'm having a hard time convincing myself that extensive resources will be used to solve this on TiVo's side.


Plus, maybe they're planning to release a new box (eBox?) and/or streaming TV service a la' SlingTV and Vue that will directly compete with Comcast? Maybe they even partnered with one of them (SlingTV, Vue, DirecTV NOW, etc.)


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

jtrain said:


> I'm having a hard time convincing myself that extensive resources will be used to solve this on TiVo's side.


 We know they are putting resources into old s2 & s3 hardware:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542199

seems like that focus is rovi deal related/driven but probably headed toward something more out of the box like harper mentioned


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> Great point and great idea! But maybe you or someone else should go there and ask this, so they see that's it's more than just one lunatic like me that has an issue with this BS.


Done!

I posted over there:

_So does Comcast plan to transcode from 1080i to 720p [using AVC ([email protected]) instead of AVC ([email protected])] on all your Comcast owned channels such as Comcast Sports regional network channels, NBC TV network stations , NBC Sports Network, CNBC, MSNBC, Bravo, Sprout, USA, Golf Channel, Syfy, and others under the NBC Universal corporate umbrella? I know you've already done this on UNVSPHD (Spanish language) and Sprout (kids programming) in some areas of the country._


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

jtrain said:


> What would be the motivation for TiVo to provide a fix for this? If they can endlessly blame Comcast for the problem, all the while wanting customers to move to the Bolt over the Roamio? I'm having a hard time convincing myself that extensive resources will be used to solve this on TiVo's side.


So the call that I (and others) got from TiVo_Sarah and her request for TSN's was just a smoke screen? Have you actually seen _*anything*_ from TiVo denying that they can fix it or even putting all of the blame on Comcast? TiVo had even less incentive to release an update to the THD but they did it.


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## jfalkingham (Jul 23, 2002)

Hmm definitely covered by Comcast Boston here in Epping and have not received letter either. 2 roamios and a bolt on standby to see what happens. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Has it been established whether it is the saving/recording or the retrieving/playing that needs to be fixed ?


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

jth tv said:


> Has it been established whether it is the saving/recording or the retrieving/playing that needs to be fixed ?


Lack of buffer creation on affected channels would seem to indicate save/record.


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> So the call that I (and others) got from TiVo_Sarah and her request for TSN's was just a smoke screen? Have you actually seen _*anything*_ from TiVo denying that they can fix it or even putting all of the blame on Comcast? TiVo had even less incentive to release an update to the THD but they did it.


I see the initial post in the TiVo Customer Support Forum from June 25, with a response for a TSN shortly thereafter. Going on 6 weeks later now and still no answer or fix for what's occurring on a host of channels in multiple markets around the country.

https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=11288850#e11288850

I don't know if that is a smokescreen or taking one's time to get it right. Asking for a TSN doesn't guarantee a fix is on its way. Given all of that, I'm hopeful they are able to resolve it! 

And a report of a possible fix at the end of this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=541407&page=15

Maybe miracles do happen?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

keenanSR said:


> If you can even find one.


Not a problem if you stay under 32 inches.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

was going to quote the "possible fix" mention in post #149 but the quotes look blank and or garbled spacing today so I won't add to that mess without using spoiler. anybody else seeing 20.6.1a? or if you are, you had to sign NDA and can't talk about it? kind of quiet if there is indeed a fix. oh well, maybe tivo left this yahoo and my roamios out in the cold. and maybe I'm the only one seeing garbled quotes too.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

tivoyahoo said:


> was going to quote the "possible fix" mention in post #149 but the quotes look blank and or garbled spacing today so I won't add to that mess without using spoiler. anybody else seeing 20.6.1a? or if you are, you had to sign NDA and can't talk about it? kind of quiet if there is indeed a fix. oh well, maybe tivo left this yahoo and my roamios out in the cold. and maybe I'm the only one seeing garbled quotes too.


Two Chicagoans reported they got 20.6.1a.RC7 and it fixed the issue.

Like you, I tried forcing a network connect a couple of times but I did not get the update. I expect it will be coming soon.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

At this point, were I a Comcast customer in one of those markets, the fix wouldn't even matter because I would've already cancelled Comcast and gone to FiOS, DirecTV or another competing MSO due to the resolution down conversion fiasco! 

Now that this is supposedly fixed, maybe it's time to deal with this bigger issue?


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> At this point, were I a Comcast customer in one of those markets, the fix wouldn't even matter because I would've already cancelled Comcast and gone to FiOS, DirecTV or another competing MSO due to the resolution down conversion fiasco!
> 
> Now that this is supposedly fixed, maybe it's time to deal with this bigger issue?


Yeah. I bet those Comcast STBs never had any problems. But screw people with customer-owned equipment. Most larger MSOs are like this when it comes to supporting customer-owned equipment.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

There is no changing providers here and in most places. Satellite providers are an option but they also compress the heck out of your signal and have been doing it longer than Comcast -- especially Dish Network. There is definitely no FIOS here or alternate cable TV provider.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mlcarson said:


> There is no changing providers here and in most places. Satellite providers are an option but they also compress the heck out of your signal and have been doing it longer than Comcast -- especially Dish Network. There is definitely no FIOS here or alternate cable TV provider.


DirecTV is known to have much better image quality than Comcast, probably the best in the industry. Do you have them as an option?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> DirecTV is known to have much better image quality than Comcast, probably the best in the industry. Do you have them as an option?


I do, in fact, I have their service already as Comcast doesn't have the MLBEI-HD package so every 6 months during the baseball season I re-activate my service to see Dodger games.

If Comcast doesn't change this policy of degrading the quality of 1080i channels my Tivo Roamio Pro and Mini will be up for sale soon. 

And a Roamio Basic(2 TB), I'll make a great package deal for some lucky buyer!


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Other than FIOS, I would lose far more than I would gain. And FIOS isn't available.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> I do, in fact, I have their service already as Comcast doesn't have the MLBEI-HD package so every 6 months during the baseball season I re-activate my service to see Dodger games.
> 
> If Comcast doesn't change this policy of degrading the quality of 1080i channels my Tivo Roamio Pro and Mini will be up for sale soon.
> 
> And a Roamio Basic(2 TB), I'll make a great package deal for some lucky buyer!


do you have these mpeg2 HD channels in SR?
459 GMHD2
460 GMHD1

there usually aren't a lot of west coast games (later time slot) compared to east, so odds are better that one of the 2 channels has the game you want in HD (if it's a home game or played in PST). but it's hit and miss. and games from the east can go long and coverage will stay on those even when west coast games start.

Comcast has converted at least 2 extra innings channels to h.264 in Sacramento:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10946075#post10946075

and maybe more are HD in that channel range - am not sure if anyone has checked in Sacramento?? But I've been periodically checking 459 & 460 in SF to see it they convert to h.264. and btw, sometimes they come in even though I don't have the package. there some other hd's in that channel range such as 450 but that one isn't baseball. but more HD game channels would be a good thing to come out of the mpeg4 migration.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Other than FIOS, I would lose far more than I would gain. And FIOS isn't available.


But isn't Atlanta on the Google Fiber coming soon list?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tivoyahoo said:


> But isn't Atlanta on the Google Fiber coming soon list?


Irrelevant. Same problem as U-Verse and Satellite - TiVo no workee.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Irrelevant. Same problem as U-Verse and Satellite - TiVo no workee.


maybe at this point in time, but google may offer something that makes tivo boxes irrelevant, especially if tivo never releases another box, which is speculated with the buyout. and who knows who tivo will partner with going forward. and with fiber speed doesn't that make a local hard drive for storage of recordings less relevant vs. cloud based? but regardless, if google is looming in a particular city, such as Atlanta & Nashville, comcast will work harder to compete. And those two cities appear to be the first to test comcast docsis 3.1 modems and 1ghz downstream speeds. so more competition and offerings can only be a plus.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> Other than FIOS, I would lose far more than I would gain. And FIOS isn't available.


Fair enough. That's a choice each of us has to make based on our circumstances, but I'm sorry to hear that you don't have any other real options. My daughter may not either, based on her budget concerns being a full time college student.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> do you have these mpeg2 HD channels in SR?
> 459 GMHD2
> 460 GMHD1
> 
> ...


Yes, I have those 2 channels but I don't like those odds, especially since this is Vin Scully's last season. Plus, why would I pay $200 for just 2 channels when I can get all of them for around $150 plus MLB.tv Premium as well? Yes, I also have to pay $40 a month for the base programming package and DVR, but I only pay it 6 mos a year.

That brings up another point, this talk about 720p being better for motion, well, when it comes to baseball a clean 1080i feed can't be beat, ESPN's games look terrible compared to the 1080i SportsNet LA feed I get from DirecTV. Even when MLB Network(720p) simulcasts a Dodger game the difference is very noticeable.

If the conversion allows for more MLBEI-HD channels that would be great, but Comcast has gone this long without them so why would they add them now? That bandwidth will likely be put to other uses, like faster Internet and 4K streaming. Besides, Comcast lags far behind DirecTV when it comes to sports programming, they're not even close.

I've been hanging on to Comcast because of the TiVo and I have a good relationship with the local office, I can usually get premium channels for next to nothing and they always work with me to keep the price as low as possible. But now, with quality of zero importance to Comcast, that is where I'll likely draw the line as this change is just a bridge too far.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

The biggest thing is the ability to xfer between TiVo and PC.

At my age and with my eyesight, the resolution change simply doesn't bother me.

What bothers me more is when Comcast comes back late from their inserted ads and I lose actual content, not just a reduction in resolution.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

.


lpwcomp said:


> The biggest thing is the ability to xfer between TiVo and PC.
> 
> At my age and with my eyesight, the resolution change simply doesn't bother me.
> 
> What bothers me more is when Comcast comes back late from their inserted ads and I lose actual content, not just a reduction in resolution.


Yes, the transfer to PC is very handy but I typically don't do much with it myself, especially since picking up the Mini.

I agree, those ad inserts are extremely annoying, just another "we don't care" move by a company that's world class in that department.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> Plus, why would I pay $200 for just 2 channels when I can get all of them for around $150 plus MLB.tv Premium as well?
> 
> I've been hanging on to Comcast because of the TiVo and I have a good relationship with the local office, I can usually get premium channels for next to nothing and they always work with me to keep the price as low as possible.


good analysis on the quality and pricing. So I guess they aren't cutting you any deals on mlbei at the local office if you make that same case to them? just on movie channels? yeah, $200 for 2 channels isn't worth it. I have a friend who has been paying for the mls direct kick package for years and I think they have promised hd since last summer but I think it's only 1 channel in hd so it's playing the odds as to what game is in hd. but I thought maybe he ended up viewing the games through the xfinity app and getting HD that way as a workaround. Or maybe it was a mlb.tv type app for mls that was hd - can't remember. but how is the quality on mlb.tv? what resolution does it max out at? and doesn't tivo have that app? so if a tivo user wants to go that route - mlb app via tivo, how is the quality and pricing?

I wouldn't write off comcast not offering more channels in hd for those sports packages, not if they can sell the season pass for $200. or maybe they see the writing on the wall, that customers will go direct to mlb.tv app instead and they will wave the white flag on trying to deliver more mlb in hd.

Speaking of sports, I did see that PS vue is supposed to get NFL red zone I believe.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

caught this recent post...


PdX said:


> Netflix seems to work fine, but MLB.tv is a **** show on the bolt. It constantly freezes and wants to load and makes watching games unbearable. I can't even get half an inning sometimes.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10962442#post10962442


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Just got home to see a "Pending restart" - robooted and now it's at "preparing the update"
I'll let you know if it fixes the problem.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Well, that took less time than I thought.
Updated to 20.6.1a.RC10 and a quick check of two channels I record frequently 838 Cinemax and 763 DisneyXD buffer fine and seem to record ok. The blue circle seems to take longer, but that may just be a function of indexing going on after the reboot.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rgr said:


> Well, that took less time than I thought.
> Updated to 20.6.1a.RC10 and a quick check of two channels I record frequently 838 Cinemax and 763 DisneyXD buffer fine and seem to record ok. The blue circle seems to take longer, but that may just be a function of indexing going on after the reboot.


Forced a connection and got the update. Installation is taking a heck of a long time!

Edit: Installation finally finished, back up and all problematic channels are now buffering. That was my basic. Won't be able to get to the Pro until later tonight at the earliest.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

Felt like I won the lottery -- I got the update on both my Roamio Basic and my Roamio Plus this afternoon. All of the H.264 [email protected] channels are now working properly again.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Still no joy f0r me on my Pro.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

mlcarson said:


> Felt like I won the lottery -- I got the update on both my Roamio Basic and my Roamio Plus this afternoon. All of the H.264 [email protected] channels are now working properly again.


It's absurd that I'm happy that my roamio is only working as well as it was a couple of months ago. But I am.


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

Received 20.6.1a.RC10 on my Roamio Plus overnight. Problem channels are now buffering properly and I'm able to view said channels on the Mini. The Mini still shows as 20.6.1.RC14, but doesn't seem to affect any functionality receiving from the Roamio Plus. (Beaverton, OR - Comcast)


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I'm in the Chicago area, and neither of my Roamios received the 20.6.1a update. I forced connections to no avail. What really baffles me is that my Premiere was pending a restart, and it now has 20.6.1a.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Got 20.6.1a.RC10 last nite, fixed the channels.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

gweempose said:


> I'm in the Chicago area, and neither of my Roamios received the 20.6.1a update. I forced connections to no avail. What really baffles me is that my Premiere was pending a restart, and it now has 20.6.1a.


The new guide data is rolling out next week, so you will have to get the update soon.


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## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

I got the 20.6.1a.RC10 last night. Recording and buffer is now working on the down converted 720p channels on Comcast. 

Haven't gone through the menus to check for any other differences yet.

- Dan


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## lebenson (Jan 27, 2008)

Hoping they push this update soon. Any word when this update will go out to all affected


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## lebenson (Jan 27, 2008)

Also, how do I get a message to Tivo Support_Sarah


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## lebenson (Jan 27, 2008)

I think i figured out how to get to TivoSupport_Sarah. Sorry for numerous messages.


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

Got 20.6.1aRC10 on my Roamio Pro and Mini this afternoon. Comcast Transcode Virus is no longer an issue. All seems well.


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## pdxrunr (Dec 17, 2004)

kokishin said:


> Got 20.6.1aRC10 on my Roamio Pro and Mini this afternoon. Comcast Transcode Virus is no longer an issue. All seems well.


Same here in the Portland, OR area! Can record Showtime again.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

kokishin said:


> ........Comcast Transcode Virus is no longer an issue. All seems well.


Yeah, but the Comcast transcode _plague_ still is, and it's not well!


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> Yeah, but the Comcast transcode _plague_ still is, and it's not well!


I agree but at least the Roamio and Mini can deal with it now.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

kokishin said:


> I agree but at least the Roamio and Mini can deal with it now.


Interpretation: now everyone can forget about the sleazy thing Comcrap is doing and sweep it under the rug and pretend like all is well and go back to their fairies and puppy dogs view of the world, being ignorantly taken advantage of and liking it. We don't want to offend anyone after all, we might hurt Comcast's feelings and they'd have to go to their safe place.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Interpretation: now everyone can forget about the sleazy thing Comcrap is doing and sweep it under the rug and pretend like all is well and go back to their fairies and puppy dogs view of the world, being ignorantly taken advantage of and liking it. We don't want to offend anyone after all, we might hurt Comcast's feelings and they'd have to go to their safe place.


It is not like Comcast was going to drop 1080 to 720 transcoding because Tivos can't record it.

People are customers of Comcast because they like the product better than others available or no other is available. This isn't going to change those perceptions or realities.

It will just lessen pain for people who have no real choice.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Interpretation: now everyone can forget about the sleazy thing Comcrap is doing and sweep it under the rug and pretend like all is well and go back to their fairies and puppy dogs view of the world, being ignorantly taken advantage of and liking it. We don't want to offend anyone after all, we might hurt Comcast's feelings and they'd have to go to their safe place.


To be fair it is no worse than what TWC does in many markets. Sure they may not change 1080i to 720p, but I have seem some channels that looked no better than 480i quality. And they have been doing it for years. Comcast users are pretty lucky if you ask me.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

People today have become complacent with whatever is fed to them. I can remember back in the very early days of HDTV people would scream bloody murder over a carrier down-rezzing a signal. I know of at least one class action lawsuit that was filed against DirecTV for lying about their signal quality. The lawsuit was dismissed because DirecTV finally fessed up and starting broadcasting in 1080i instead of the lower resolution they were using, it was something in the 1200 range, I don't recall the exact resolution. Nowadays as long as people can see it on their cell phones they're happy, and a provider like Comcast knows this, quality is not important to the overwhelming majority of their subscribers.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if Comcast uses claims about the highest quality possible ever again for their TV product, probably not as the claim will be provably false.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

TonyD79 said:


> It is not like Comcast was going to drop 1080 to 720 transcoding because Tivos can't record it.
> 
> People are customers of Comcast because they like the product better than others available or no other is available. This isn't going to change those perceptions or realities.
> 
> It will just lessen pain for people who have no real choice.





rainwater said:


> To be fair it is no worse than what TWC does in many markets. Sure they may not change 1080i to 720p, but I have seem some channels that looked no better than 480i quality. And they have been doing it for years. Comcast users are pretty lucky if you ask me.


Thanks for proving my point! :up: There is ALWAYS a choice!!!

KeenanSR sums it up pretty well......complacent! We would never be a country if we all had this attitude back in the 1770's!



keenanSR said:


> People today have become complacent with whatever is fed to them. I can remember back in the very early days of HDTV people would scream bloody murder over a carrier down-rezzing a signal. I know of at least one class action lawsuit that was filed against DirecTV for lying about their signal quality. The lawsuit was dismissed because DirecTV finally fessed up and starting broadcasting in 1080i instead of the lower resolution they were using, it was something in the 1200 range, I don't recall the exact resolution. Nowadays as long as people can see it on their cell phones they're happy, and a provider like Comcast knows this, quality is not important to the overwhelming majority of their subscribers.
> 
> Anyway, it will be interesting to see if Comcast uses claims about the highest quality possible ever again for their TV product, probably not as the claim will be provably false.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

I know this is a mpeg4 thread, but OTA bay area tivo users we may have dodged a bullet if Rovi follows through on correcting this NBC11 missing channel:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10971758#post10971758

There's still a guide data problem on Fox KTVU 2 coming off the translator in the south bay - see the thread link for more discussion on that. anyone with WMC / silicon dust ota or other rovi data source can confirm.

But going back to comcast and this:


HarperVision said:


> Interpretation: now everyone can forget about the sleazy thing Comcrap is doing and sweep it under the rug and pretend like all is well and go back to their fairies and puppy dogs view of the world, being ignorantly taken advantage of and liking it. We don't want to offend anyone after all, we might hurt Comcast's feelings and they'd have to go to their safe place.


I know the 720p downrezz is the primary issue, but poeple ought to look at the channels ota vs. comcast and compare, even when they aren't 1080i => 720p. I'll try to do some recordings and post some stat comparisons on ota source vs. comcast source now that this roamio issue is hopefully in the rear view mirror.

and in trying to get the nbc kntv 11 issue fixed and contact someone at the station, I noticed nbc has the same person listed for all their stations:

https://publicfiles.fcc.gov/tv-profile/kntv
Margaret L. Tobey
Vice President, Regulatory Affairs
NBCUniversal
300 New Jersey Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001
202-524-64 [phone] 
202-524-64 [fax] 
[email protected]

so the mention of regulatory affairs had me wondering, Harper have you looked at the FCC and regulatory rules on the 1080i => 720p issue ? Jed1 had some posts in the other thread indicating a cable provider could be in hot water over something like that.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> I know this is a mpeg4 thread, but OTA bay area tivo users we may have dodged a bullet if Rovi follows through on correcting this NBC11 missing channel:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10971758#post10971758
> 
> ...


To the best of my knowledge, Comcast is not converting to MPEG4 or downrezzing any local over the air broadcast channels.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> To the best of my knowledge, Comcast is not converting to MPEG4 or downrezzing any local over the air broadcast channels.


correct, but they are compressing them nevertheless. I was trying to make the point early on of excusing my post as out of place since ota is not mpeg4. but I was trying to tie it back in to the point that the comcast issue is more than just the 1080i => 720p issue. they are compressing channels across the board including ones that we can receive free ota and if you look at the ota version with your own eyeballs you can see the difference. but also I can post stats on the bitrate differences.

It's not as blatant and obvious as directv's 1280 x 1080 offering from before, but you can see the difference ota vs. comcast and the recording stats on the bitrate back it up.

oh, and I really should have posted that in the bay area mpeg4 thread with the mention of the bay area stations, but again it was more about the comcast quality issue. so I guess it belongs in Harper's 1080i => 720p thread. but to me it's still a comcast issue. and potentially an FCC/regulatory issue was another point.

btw, keenan do you have a silicon dust ota tuner? or just cable card version?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

tivoyahoo said:


> correct, but they are compressing them nevertheless. I was trying to make the point early on of excusing my post as out of place since ota is not mpeg4. but I was trying to tie it back in to the point that the comcast issue is more than just the 1080i => 720p issue. they are compressing channels across the board including ones that we can receive free ota and if you look at the ota version with your own eyeballs you can see the difference. but also I can post stats on the bitrate differences.
> 
> It's not as blatant and obvious as directv's 1280 x 1080 offering from before, but you can see the difference ota vs. comcast and the recording stats on the bitrate back it up.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've noticed they've been reducing the bitrate of the OTA as well but it's difficult to check as I can't get any OTA up here, I've had to check with members in the OTA thread at AVS. The SD unit is the Prime, cable only.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

keenanSR said:


> To the best of my knowledge, Comcast is not converting to MPEG4 or downrezzing any local over the air broadcast channels.





keenanSR said:


> Yes, I've noticed they've been reducing the bitrate of the OTA as well but it's difficult to check as I can't get any OTA up here, I've had to check with members in the OTA thread at AVS. The SD unit is the Prime, cable only.


I've found kmttg can be used to check the bitrate of any recording. Both my NBC and CBS channels send out about 18Mbps (MPEG2). They are rare in not having sub-channels (yet). My ABC station, with two sub-channels, usually sends out about 7Mbps. The numbers are from recordings made from my cable feed. My Fox feed, with two subs, splits the difference.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> I've found kmttg can be used to check the bitrate of any recording. Both my NBC and CBS channels send out about 18Mbps (MPEG2). They are rare in not having sub-channels (yet). My ABC station, with two sub-channels, usually sends out about 7Mbps. The numbers are from recordings made from my cable feed. My Fox feed, with two subs, splits the difference.


Yes, kmttg is a very handy app. I don't have any NBC content recorded or even in the deleted pile to check bitrates but for prime time it's usually very high, somewhere in 16-18+ Mbps range. It's currently at 16.55 Mbps and it's only the Nightly News broadcast. KNTV(O&O) in the SF market is the best quality station we have, great PG and excellent audio as well. With the Prime you can check the live bitrate through a web browser.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

Mediainfo does the same with most media formats including ".TiVo". Although, I'm not sure how to associate .TiVo with Mediainfo so you can just right click a file in explorer to get the info. If you open the .TiVo files with it though, it does work.



JoeKustra said:


> I've found kmttg can be used to check the bitrate of any recording. Both my NBC and CBS channels send out about 18Mbps (MPEG2). They are rare in not having sub-channels (yet). My ABC station, with two sub-channels, usually sends out about 7Mbps. The numbers are from recordings made from my cable feed. My Fox feed, with two subs, splits the difference.


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## tivoyahoo (Sep 4, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> Yes, kmttg is a very handy app. I don't have any NBC content recorded or even in the deleted pile to check bitrates but for prime time it's usually very high, somewhere in 16-18+ Mbps range. It's currently at 16.55 Mbps and it's only the Nightly News broadcast. KNTV(O&O) in the SF market is the best quality station we have, great PG and excellent audio as well. With the Prime you can check the live bitrate through a web browser.


just glanced at kmttg for roamio pro on cable and sorted the mbps in descending order and all the top rates were nbc kntv and yes, high teens on mbps but I can't good signal ota on that one to compare.


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## sjmagy (Aug 28, 2016)

HarperVision said:


> At this point, were I a Comcast customer in one of those markets, the fix wouldn't even matter because I would've already cancelled Comcast and gone to FiOS, DirecTV or another competing MSO due to the resolution down conversion fiasco!
> 
> Now that this is supposedly fixed, maybe it's time to deal with this bigger issue?


In my neighborhood in San Francisco, there is no other option for apartment renters. AT&T doesn't offer U-verse in our neighborhood, because it's an apartment we can't get a dish, so that leaves Comcast, or Comcast. And to switch to just streaming shows via Hulu, Netflix, etc, and ditching cable altogether isn't an option, because in the same neighborhood, it's either Comcast for your ISP or slow AT&T DSL. Basically stuck with no options other than moving. It's embarrassing for a city that's supposedly the "tech capital" of the world...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

sjmagy said:


> In my neighborhood in San Francisco, there is no other option for apartment renters. AT&T doesn't offer U-verse in our neighborhood, because it's an apartment we can't get a dish, so that leaves Comcast, or Comcast. And to switch to just streaming shows via Hulu, Netflix, etc, and ditching cable altogether isn't an option, because in the same neighborhood, it's either Comcast for your ISP or slow AT&T DSL. Basically stuck with no options other than moving. It's embarrassing for a city that's supposedly the "tech capital" of the world...


You could always keep Comcast for your isp but go with PS Vue as your TV service using FireTV boxes, PS4, etc. SF has the local channels on Vue if I recall.


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