# THT HD Picture Quality



## Onazuka (Sep 22, 2001)

I turned on TNT HD for the first time last night and watched some of the basketball game that was on, I think it was the NBA rookies against the 1st year players. The picture was by far the worst HD picture I have seen on my TV. At first I thought that my TV might have something wrong with it. The picture was very soft and fuzzy and I saw artifacts with motion. This is not something I have seen on any HD broadcast. I switched to the other tuner witch was showing the Olympics from NBC OTA and the picture was excellent. Does anybody else think that TNT HD looks bad ?


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## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

Looked ok on my DLP (but I've also got middle-aged man eyes).


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## disco (Mar 27, 2000)

The only HD channel that looks good on DirecTV is HDnet (and then only on _some_ shows..). All the others look soft and display artifacts with high motion. TNT-HD is just another in that same line. Count me as disappointed. Now, it DOES look better than SD, but not near as good as it _should_ look...


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## srt (Jan 27, 2006)

Add me to being less than impressed with tnt's offering. At least d*s charging a buck less.
I believe discoveryhd has some nice transmissions as well as hdnet.
Are artifacts those odd "draggy" spots when movement occurs. If so I have them too on this channel, and sometimes on std images as well.


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## sandiegojoe (Jun 4, 2005)

Discovery HD does look good too, and some of the NFL games in HD. But TNT HD looked terrible today and the aspect ratio was all screwy on some snow movie that I checked out for a sec.. hopefully it'll get cleared up for lethal weapon.


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## jfischer (Oct 14, 1999)

srt said:


> Add me to being less than impressed with tnt's offering.


I really doubt it's TNT's fault. DirecTV is probably compressing the snot out of it which is why it looks so bad.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

TNT HD on Comcrap looks awesome.


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## mitchrc (Jun 12, 2000)

Watching NASCAR now and it looks great.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

SeanC said:


> TNT HD on Comcrap looks awesome.


Yes. Nascar looks fantastic as well as their other sports offerings.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

I can't tell you exactly why, but I can tell you with great certainty that the TNT HD feed (uplink) is considered one of the best in the industry. Unfortunately, TNT has essentially little control over what satellite and cable distribution do to it down the line...


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## khark (Jan 2, 2001)

I looked at Nascar today and brought up SD in PIP and the HD didn't look any better than SD. So far I'm not impressed at all.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

SeanC said:


> TNT HD on Comcrap looks awesome.


And on Cox, too. Even the 480i stuff looks amazingly good.


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## jhillestad (Jul 13, 2004)

Looked fine for me on Friday... I wonder what DTV did to squeeze the bandwidth... did they kill of a hd ppv channel or something ????


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## nazz (Sep 1, 2003)

I think it looks really bad on my 65" Mits and I'm trying to decide if the other HD channels look worse now that it's been added.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

It looks OK, not amazing. But I'm only on a 30" Sony CRT (I think my TV has 1260 horizontal lines of resolution).


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Some stuff looks ok and other look like crap. It looks like they are just using a 'zoom' on SD material to fill the screen which results in a very poor picture. I would rather see sidebars on SD material than that crap.


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## sp1dey (Jul 21, 2005)

I don't think the picture quality looks bad to me... HD lite hasn't been an issue for me since I'm only using a 34 inch tube.... I feel for those who have large sets where the problem is more pronounced. However, the stretching is retarded. I understand that there isn't a lot of content at this point, but they shouldn't misrepresent by stretching. What I don't understand is, why are many of the movies stretched? I mean why not show them in OAR or even matted for 16:9? (like UHD or HDNM). Old movies look pretty good on those channels. TNT has a lot of movies, even edited and riddled with commercials that I wouldn't mind watching, but stretched? no thanks. Still a solid channel to have for some of the live programming... thanks D*. I don't fault them for the content at this point.


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## leftcoastdave (Sep 4, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> Some stuff looks ok and other look like crap. It looks like they are just using a 'zoom' on SD material to fill the screen which results in a very poor picture. I would rather see sidebars on SD material than that crap.


Amen to that, Mark.

I glanced at an HD movie last night and was appalled to see that it was stretched vertically and horizontally. The picture looked good at first glance on still scenes but when the camera action panned across the scene, it looked like the movie had been filmed through a fish bowl. The picture was geometrically distorted throughout and fuzzy at the edges. And this was a recent theater release from 2004, not some pan and scan upconvert of an old film.

I have yet to look in on any of the sports broadcasts as I am not an NBA fan, but thusfar I am duly unimpressed with the content I have seen on TNT HD.


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## alant40 (Oct 23, 2004)

Well all I know is that I had to, well didn't have to but did, activate the HD package once again. After the NFL season ended, no real reason to have the package. Now with TNT and being a Nascar fan, well you know the rest. DTV I'm sure knows this to, Nascar fans with HD want TNT. As for picture quality, I think it's great. The race yesterday looked awesome as well as the NBA telecasts. Movies didn't look that much better than SD, but that's ok. I have LCD's all over my house, no CRT models. That may or may not make a difference I would assume.


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## rdowdy95 (Jan 29, 2004)

HOLD ON A SEC! I have an HR10-250. You mean I can watch TNT in HD!!??! Dang I watched the dunk competition in 480i last night. What channel is TNT HD on? When did they do HD for TNT!!!?!? Do I have to have the new HR20-250? IS that receiver even out yet?


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

They started carrying it last Friday (the 17th). It's on Channel 75 -- assuming you subscribe to the HD package, you can watch it right now.


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## wozman57 (Nov 21, 2005)

NBA all-star game looks beautiful right now!


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## Beckzilla (Jan 27, 2005)

jfischer said:


> I really doubt it's TNT's fault. DirecTV is probably compressing the snot out of it which is why it looks so bad.


 I agree with this statement 100%. It only makes common sense since TNT HD is being reported to look alot better on cable. BTW... does anybody know why when DirecTv adds a HD channel it isn't announced in my message folder? I just found TNT HD by accident when scanning the channels. When ESPN 2 went HD on DirecTv I didn't get a message notice then either. I hope they find a way to bring us NGC in HD as that is an awesome channel. I keep emailing them and bugging them about it and hopefully they will eventually listen to their customers needs. It hurts to watch NGC and see the on screen ad that it is being shown in HD and I can't see it. You would think that adding a HD channel would be worthy of a message from DirecTv announcing it.


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## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

wozman57 said:


> NBA all-star game looks beautiful right now!


I saw some of it and thought it looked awful. It was pixelating and artifacting all over the place, especially with fast motion. It was worse than the Olympics on Universal.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

To me, the issue isn't the clarity or picture quality. The PQ isn't as good as an OTA HD broadcast, but seems comparable to any of the other HD lite broadcasts that Dtv gives us. My issue is with TNT's decision to stretch all of their 4:3 content - a very poor decision, IMO. Anyone who has a 16:9 TV has the option to stretch content if they choose...that decision should be left up to the end-user. By broadcasting in stretched mode (which I hate watching), they've taken away the user's flexibility of viewing options. I have a bunch of upcoming movies scheduled to be recorded from TNTH. I'll have to see if they are watchable or not. If they are stretched and distorted, then I'll only be able to watch live broadcasts on that channel that are in true 16:9 format (such as NBA games). I already can't stand watching their commercials (I was watching the all-star game live) because everything is distorted, and I noticed the same on "Judging Amy" (I think it's called) when I first added the channel and was checking out the content.


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## thepackfan (May 21, 2003)

I agree 100%, If a show is 4-3 leave it that way. If I want to watched it streched then I can set my set that way.


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## whsbuss (Dec 16, 2002)

I can agree somewhat with the comments about 4:3 being stretched. However, some of us who are connected via HMDI/DVI don't have the option of stretching the 4:3 picture. My Samsung DLP only provides zoom capabilities using the component inputs.

Just a comment....


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

whsbuss said:


> I can agree somewhat with the comments about 4:3 being stretched. However, some of us who are connected via HMDI/DVI don't have the option of stretching the 4:3 picture. My Samsung DLP only provides zoom capabilities using the component inputs.
> 
> Just a comment....


I'm surprised to hear that your TV has that limitation, but I still think it should be left up to the consumer. My TV has no such limitation via HDMI. In any case, your HR10-250 has a setting for stretching 4:3 content - you could handle it there if your TV doesn't support it.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

eengert said:


> I'm surprised to hear that your TV has that limitation, but I still think it should be left up to the consumer. My TV has no such limitation via HDMI. In any case, your HR10-250 has a setting for stretching 4:3 content - you could handle it there if your TV doesn't support it.


Actually that won't work as 4:3 content broadcast with sidebars in HD is seen (correctly) by the Tivo as 16:9. I have one of mr HR10-250s set to stretch content and it does it just fine with analog or digital 4:3 content on a non-HD channel, but when 4:3 content with sidebars is broadcast the HR10-250 does nothing with the signal.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Actually that won't work as 4:3 content broadcast with sidebars in HD is seen (correctly) by the Tivo as 16:9. I have one of mr HR10-250s set to stretch content and it does it just fine with analog or digital 4:3 content on a non-HD channel, but when 4:3 content with sidebars is broadcast the HR10-250 does nothing with the signal.


That's true, they would need to broadcast it in 4:3, which they should be doing, IMO.

TNT, If it's not HD and it's not 16:9, don't fake it. The customer can tell.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

The thing about stretching 4:3 material is some of us would not do it on our TVs anyway. Personally I can't fathom why anyone would want to distort a picture just to fill the screen (unless they had burn in issues). But to stretch it just for the sake of getting rid of bars is blasphemous IMO.


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## BlueMonk (Oct 8, 2002)

Can't believe I missed DTV adding this channel. I watched the All Star Game in SD last night.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

eengert said:


> That's true, they would need to broadcast it in 4:3, which they should be doing, IMO.
> 
> TNT, If it's not HD and it's not 16:9, don't fake it. The customer can tell.


If it is broadcast in 720p or 1080i, doesn't 4:3 content *have* to be (by ATSC specification) broadcast in 16:9, whether that 16:9 is achieved though stretching or broadcasting sidebars?

If it was a non-HD digital station (i.e. not 720p or 1080i) then they could broadcast 4:3. As an example, my local PBS station (WTTW Chicago) simulcasts their analog feed on a digital 480i feed.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Looks ok to me. I watched some of a movie yesterday, and flipped to it here and there during some of the sports to see how it looks.

There are other DTV HD channels that look much worse for sure. At least the audio is in sync on TNT HD. I hate DSC HD for that reason. Makes me sick to my stomach watching anythign with people's mouths moving up close and the voice not being in sync all the time.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> If it is broadcast in 720p or 1080i, doesn't 4:3 content *have* to be (by ATSC specification) broadcast in 16:9, whether that 16:9 is achieved though stretching or broadcasting sidebars?
> 
> If it was a non-HD digital station (i.e. not 720p or 1080i) then they could broadcast 4:3.


Then let them broadcast sidebars. Other HD channels have no problem doing it with 4:3 content.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> Then let them broadcast sidebars. Other HD channels have no problem doing it with 4:3 content.


I don't have an opinion either way. My response was only to clarify that the HR10-250 will never stretch 16:9 material. A poster earlier in the thread complained that his TV does not stretch 16:9 material. Then another poster offered that the HR10-250 would stretch 16:9 material, but it will not.

I agree that the best all-around solution is to probably broadcast sidebars. But it doesn't solve all problems. And a lot of less technical people will probably wonder why (or complain) about black bars on the side.


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## lbrock (Oct 23, 2004)

On TNT-HD:
Some - not all - movies are true hidef or DVD
Some series are true hidef, some are stretched (X-files)

The stretched stuff looks awful: faces very distorted on any closeups, tho the overall video quality is quite good.

Many, including me, find the stretched stuff unwatchable.

I'd suggest email to TNT.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Streching is very annoying, but if you want to watch it non-stretched just tune into the SD TNT. But this is only helpful if TNT will start flagging the content properly! Do not flag stretched, upconverted material as HDTV!!!


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

TNT HD looks terrible on my 60" 1080p SXRD. It looks like all the other HD junk that DirecTV recompresses, so I'm guessing the problem is in the recompression, not the TNT source.

If you think the picture looks good, you:
1) Have bad eyes
2) Have a 720p TV (or just a bad HD TV)
3) Don't have OTA 1080i HD to compare
4) Aren't picky

It's been shown again and again how much DirecTV is destroying the HD pictures. If you don't care, then that's great. I, and many others, do care. Unfortunately, there aren't many options right now, as Tivo is more important to me.

I'd be interested to see how many people cancel the HD package as a result of TNT HD.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

SpankyInChicago said:


> I don't have an opinion either way. My response was only to clarify that the HR10-250 will never stretch 16:9 material. A poster earlier in the thread complained that his TV does not stretch 16:9 material. Then another poster offered that the HR10-250 would stretch 16:9 material, but it will not.
> 
> I agree that the best all-around solution is to probably broadcast sidebars. But it doesn't solve all problems. And a lot of less technical people will probably wonder why (or complain) about black bars on the side.


Actually I wasn't offering that the HR10 would stretch 16:9 material. I was offering that it would stretch 4:3 material. The assumption was that TNTH could broadcast their SD material in 4:3 like everyone else does. I have seen some occasions that you are referring to where SD material is broadcast in 16:9 with sidebars...obviously the HR10 can't stretch that since it's already filling the screen.

The HD programming that is truly 16:9 that TNTH broadcasts looks fine. But they have plenty of programs that aren't 16:9 (and aren't even HD 720p or 1080i) that they stretch and advertise as HD. That's where I disagree with their approach. I don't like stretched material. If it's 4:3, fine, give it to me that way. And certainly don't put the HD tag on it. The NBA all-star game was HD. Another show that I checked out that was labeled as HD (Judging Amy, I believe) was stretched but was clearly not HD.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> TNT HD looks terrible on my 60" 1080p SXRD. It looks like all the other HD junk that DirecTV recompresses, so I'm guessing the problem is in the recompression, not the TNT source.
> 
> If you think the picture looks good, you:
> 1) Have bad eyes
> ...


Aren't you judgmental? Everyone knows when it comes to HD, it IS in the eye of the beholder. That said, I do feel nothing can truly stack up HDNet or some of the OTA sports on CBS (since they are doing true 1080i). However, I DO consider myself pretty knowledgeable about HD and pretty darn picky.

I watched the NASCAR Busch Race on Saturday on TNT-HD and thought it looked pretty darn good. Certainly MUCH improvement over TNT-SD. I'm not sure what format TNT uses, I'd suspect it's 720P like NBC, Fox, and ESPN use. But the live shots from Daytona looked very good. Other than that, I've only flipped by the Law and Order "marathon" and the picture was decent for film, but nothing startling. Overall, I'm just happy to have another HD channel for now. Although, with no NASCAR on TNT again until September, I doubt I'll be watching much on TNT (since I hate commercials and they are the kings of making a 2 hour movie into 3 hours because of them). But I will be more open to recording HD movies from TNT and ff'ding through commercials.

I think I buffered the beginning of the Busch race, so I could skip the pre-race and zap the commercials, but I think they looked stretched as they were going by. I DO agree this is annoying, but if you use Tivo, what's the big deal?

Cheryl


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

speedcouch said:


> I think I buffered the beginning of the Busch race, so I could skip the pre-race and zap the commercials, but I think they looked stretched as they were going by. I DO agree this is annoying, but if you use Tivo, what's the big deal?
> 
> Cheryl


It's not just commercials that are stretched, it's some programs as well.


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## lynesjc (Feb 10, 2005)

TNT HD is 1080i. All current HD channels are 1080i with the exception of the Mouse networks (ABC, ESPN, ESPN2) and FOX, which are 720p.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

eengert said:


> Actually I wasn't offering that the HR10 would stretch 16:9 material. I was offering that it would stretch 4:3 material. The assumption was that TNTH could broadcast their SD material in 4:3 like everyone else does. I have seen some occasions that you are referring to where SD material is broadcast in 16:9 with sidebars...obviously the HR10 can't stretch that since it's already filling the screen.
> 
> The HD programming that is truly 16:9 that TNTH broadcasts looks fine. But they have plenty of programs that aren't 16:9 (and aren't even HD 720p or 1080i) that they stretch and advertise as HD. That's where I disagree with their approach. I don't like stretched material. If it's 4:3, fine, give it to me that way. And certainly don't put the HD tag on it. The NBA all-star game was HD. Another show that I checked out that was labeled as HD (Judging Amy, I believe) was stretched but was clearly not HD.


I could be totally wrong, so anyone please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that if a station is broadcasting in "high definition" (e.g. 720p or 1080i) that they were required to broadcast in 16:9. I thought this meant that, by default, any 4:3 material broadcast in 720p or 1080i had to be either strechted to 16:9 or sent with sidebars. Maybe I am obtuse, but I don't recall ever watching a single program on a 720p or 1080i station where 4:3 material was broadcast without sidebars and without being strechted.

From what I understand, and again please someone correct me if I am wrong, there is no such thing as a 4:3 ratio picture ever being sent out in 720p or 1080i in "native" 4:3 format - it is either broadcast with sidebard or strechted to fill the 16:9 ratio.

Of course at other digital resolutions (e.g. 480p, 480i) then material can be broadcast at either 16:9 or 4:3 and be "flagged" as either by the broadcaster. I point again to my local PBS station (WTTW Chicago) which runs a 480i DIGITAL simulcast of their analog station and flags 4:3 material as such.

Am I wrong?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Apparently TNT thinks the HDTV flag means "This program will fill a 16x9 screen", how they accomplish this doesn't seem to care to them.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> I could be totally wrong, so anyone please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that if a station is broadcasting in "high definition" (e.g. 720p or 1080i) that they were required to broadcast in 16:9. I thought this meant that, by default, any 4:3 material broadcast in 720p or 1080i had to be either strechted to 16:9 or sent with sidebars. Maybe I am obtuse, but I don't recall ever watching a single program on a 720p or 1080i station where 4:3 material was broadcast without sidebars and without being strechted.
> 
> From what I understand, and again please someone correct me if I am wrong, there is no such thing as a 4:3 ratio picture ever being sent out in 720p or 1080i in "native" 4:3 format - it is either broadcast with sidebard or stechted to fill the 16:9 ratio.


That is correct. But I'm pretty sure thats what everyone has been saying.

What some of us want, is if it's 4:3 material, then broadcast it with sidebars. Don't distort the crap out of it. Others have pointed out that you can watch the non-HD channel and let your TV or Tivo stretch it if you want.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> That is correct. But I'm pretty sure thats what everyone has been saying.
> 
> What some of us want, is if it's 4:3 material, then broadcast it with sidebars. Don't distort the crap out of it. Others have pointed out that you can watch the non-HD channel and let your TV or Tivo stretch it if you want.


I agree that they should broadcast with sidebars.

This is sort of a sub-thread within this thread that has gotten a little confused.

Let me see if I can clarify:

1. Post #27 complains that 4:3 material broadcast with sidebars sucks for him as his TV doesn't allow him to stretch to eliminate the bars.

2. Post #28 states that post #27 shouldn't worry because the HR10-250 will stretch the material for him.

3. Post #29 states that post #28 won't work for 4:3 material broadcast with sidebars because the HR10-250 sees 4:3 material with sidebars as 16:9 content.

4. Post #30 then states that post #29 is correct in that the HR10-250 won't stretch 4:3 content with sidebars, but rather he suggests that TNT broadcast 4:3 content as 4:3 (presumably he means without sidebars and without being stretched).

5. Post #33 responds to post #30 saying that it isn't possible to broadcast 4:3 content at 720p or 1080i without stretching the 4:3 content or broadcasting the 4:3 content with sidebars.

6. Post #35 responds to post #33 stating that TNT should broadcast sidebars.

7. Post #36 agrees with post #35 and tries to clarify the conversation that occurred prior to post #36 simply stating that the HR10-250 can't stretch 16:9 material.

8. Post #40 states that post #36 had it wrong and that he did not believe the HR10-250 should stretch 16:9 material, but again, that TNT should broadcast 4:3 material without sidebars and without stretching. He suggest that "If it's 4:3, fine, give it to me that way."

9. Post #44 stats that post #40 is assuming that 720p or 1080i broadcasts can broadcast in 4:3 without stretching and without sidebars and that such an assumption probably wasn't correct.

10. Post #46 states that post #44 is correct about not being able to broadcast 4:3 material in 720p or 1080i without stretching or sidebars, but that all anyone is asking for is to send it with sidebars.

In response to your post (#46), I'd like to point out that what the poster in post #30 and post #40 would like is no sidebars. He has requested is that the 4:3 material on 720p and 1080i stations be sent without sidebars and without stretching as "native" (my term) 4:3 material. This way he can do what he likes with the signal.

My only point in all of this is that the poster in #30 and #40 is asking for something that can't be delivered because it is my understanding that 720p and 1080i broadcasts must always be 16:9 and that the only way to achieve that with 4:3 source material is to add sidebars or stretch the material. There is no third option to send 4:3 source material in its native 4:3 format over 720p / 1080i.

So, once we are down to the only two viable choices (sidebars or stretching), I agree with you that my preference is for sidebars. However, our preference for sidebars does leave the guy in post #27 who started this whole sub-thread left with his original problem: he wants to watch stretched 4:3 and his TV doesn't allow him to stretch 4:3 content with sidebars.


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## tony17 (Jun 2, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> TNT HD looks terrible on my 60" 1080p SXRD. It looks like all the other HD junk that DirecTV recompresses, so I'm guessing the problem is in the recompression, not the TNT source.
> 
> If you think the picture looks good, you:
> 
> 2) Have a 720p TV (or just a bad HD TV)


Wow, AbMagFab, I agree with your statement about it being the recompression and not the source, but the above comment about 720p is one of the more ignorant statements I've seen on the board. I don't want to start a flame war, but thought I needed to comment on that statement. Resolution, is far from the only element of fine pic quality. I have seen plasmas with 1366x768 resolution render a far more realistic image than that SXRD. I would do some research before judging everyone else who decides to purchase a 720p tv.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

lynesjc said:


> TNT HD is 1080i. All current HD channels are 1080i with the exception of the Mouse networks (ABC, ESPN, ESPN2) and FOX, which are 720p.


Thanks for the information! I really thought the Busch race looked better than any races I'd seen on Fox or NBC, but am surprised TNT would spring for glorious 1080i. :up:

As to some of their shows being stretch, as I said, I haven't watched anything else on there except the Daytona Busch race.

Cheryl


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## Ed Campbell (Jul 13, 2002)

Excepting some sports [which aren't my favorites], TNTHD seems to be rerunning everything I've already seen. I TiVo'd an X-files the other night -- to see it in HD -- and what came out of the box, this morning was worse than SD. Deleted it after 2 minutes.

Unless I get some surprises, I have to figure this is a waste of space.


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