# New Netflix App Coming



## DarthObiwan (Apr 9, 2010)

Margret just announced on twitter a while ago that a new Netflix app is coming

https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/156875670943834112

About danged time too. Hopefully it will fit with the new Premiere interface and get rid of the annoying 100 episode limit.

Update: Photos of the new interfaces for Netflix and Youtube
http://www.engadget.com/photos/tivos-latest-netflix-and-youtube-interfaces/


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Also new youtube

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/from-ces-whats-next-for-tivo/


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

DarthObiwan said:


> Margret just announced on twitter a while ago that a new Netflix app is coming
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/156875670943834112
> 
> About danged time too. Hopefully it will fit with the new Premiere interface and get rid of the annoying 100 episode limit.


That is great! Thanks for sharing, since I don't "do" Twitter.


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

Finally. Woot.

I'll miss the quirks of the current Netflix app.

The old spontaneous reboots when connections were lost.
Dubbing out of sync.
Shows starting out with video in fast forward, with normal dubbing.
No way to tell if you've seen the content before.
Queue reordering constantly (probably Netflix fault, but frustrating nonetheless).
And, on and on.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

This is exciting


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Also new youtube
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/from-ces-whats-next-for-tivo/





Dave Zatz said:


> Sadly, I get the sense there are no imminent *plants* to bring the Preview to retail.


I hope the idea *grows* on them...


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Glad to see that Tivo woke up and found themselves trailing the pack in 2010. Looking forward to the Netflix update. Now if they update Amazon VOD to allow for Prime Streaming, they truly have the Premiere box on the market.


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## ghuido (May 9, 2007)

After years, two major updates in a year. Ipad Streaming. Is this the same company? Not complaining just happy to see it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jwcooper said:


> Finally. Woot.
> 
> I'll miss the quirks of the current Netflix app.
> 
> ...


It doesn't reboot anymore when a connection is lost. Although the Netflix app drops and takes you back to live tv. At least that how it worked when I was messing around with the app in the v20 software.

Although I never had an issue with videos ff, or out of sync. The netflix app on my TiVos have been pretty much solid and very consistent with playback compared to other devices with Netflix. And when Netflix has been down on other devices, I could always go to my TiVos and it would still be working.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Arcady said:


> I hope the idea *grows* on them...


Corrected.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Their booth display seems kind of ironic, though:


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Those are my pics from CES last year - I didn't make it to Vegas this year. But I've seen these displays used more than once and figured it'd be representative.


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## DarthObiwan (Apr 9, 2010)

Random episodes not showing up in the list due to the 100 episode limit.

The first time I went to watch Star Trek:TNG on my TiVo season 1 only had 5 episodes listed.

I'm not sure though if this Netflix update will be enough to get me to move back from using my PS3. I just recently picked up the new PS3 Media/Blu-Ray Remote I absolultely love it. That combined with PS3 Media Server I can get almost all my media on my PS3. I even have TiVo Desktop set up to download certain shows to my server and they can stream to the PS3 via transcoding.


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## dugbug (Dec 29, 2003)

I hope it's not an "app" and integrated into tivo


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

This is great news. I will sign up for Netflix streaming again.


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## TVCricket (Mar 7, 2010)

DarthObiwan said:


> Random episodes not showing up in the list due to the 100 episode limit.
> 
> The first time I went to watch Star Trek:TNG on my TiVo season 1 only had 5 episodes listed.
> 
> I'm not sure though if this Netflix update will be enough to get me to move back from using my PS3. I just recently picked up the new PS3 Media/Blu-Ray Remote I absolultely love it. That combined with PS3 Media Server I can get almost all my media on my PS3. I even have TiVo Desktop set up to download certain shows to my server and they can stream to the PS3 via transcoding.


I thought this was a problem, but they do seem to give you at least 1 episode from each season. For example, I was doing a 24 marathon and was watching them in reverse order. Season 1 only had like the first 3 episodes. After watching the 1st episode, it removed 20 or so episodes from Season 8 and all the episodes from Season 1 were on the list. Not perfect, but we work with what we're given.


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## cmannes (Dec 8, 2004)

Engadget got a preview of the new Netflix interface on TiVo, which I can't link to. 

But go to Engadget, the article name is "Updated TiVo Netflix, YouTube interfaces and iPad streaming hands-on"


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/updated-tivo-netflix-youtube-interfaces-and-ipad-streaming-hand/



> In said space, we were able to take in demos of the latest Netflix and YouTube interfaces running on the TiVo Premiere. The refreshed look is greatly appreciated, as in the ability to search and even add movies to your Netflix queue -- there is even support for 5.1 surround sound. Both interfaces should look familiar if you've ever seen the Insignia cTV with TiVo design. The demo was an early version, but we're told the updates should be hitting your Tivo this spring.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

crxssi said:


> That is great! Thanks for sharing, since I don't "do" Twitter.


I do Twitter.. but the only person I have setup to receive Tweets on my phone is @TivoDesign. The most important one of all.


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## DarthObiwan (Apr 9, 2010)

And now we have Pics of the new Netflix and Youtube interfaces.
http://www.engadget.com/photos/tivos-latest-netflix-and-youtube-interfaces/

Pretty much the exact same interface as the PS3. Nice


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## DarthObiwan (Apr 9, 2010)




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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

DarthObiwan said:


> And now we have Pics of the new Netflix and Youtube interfaces.
> 
> Pretty much the exact same interface as the PS3. Nice


Hopefully it's faster than what I experienced from the Insignia TiVo TV. YouTube was particularly unpleasant.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/updated-tivo-netflix-youtube-interfaces-and-ipad-streaming-hand/


That looks like it does on the Boxee Box currently.

I don't see mention of 1080P, only 5.1 audio. So it will stay at 720P?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> That looks like it does on the Boxee Box currently.
> 
> I don't see mentionof 1080P, only 5.1 audio. So it will stay at 720P?


Gabe from Tech of the Hub said last fall it'd be 1080p.

http://www.techofthehub.com/2011/10/1080p-netflix-coming-to-tivo.html


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Gabe from Tech of the Hub said last fall it'd be 1080p.
> 
> http://www.techofthehub.com/2011/10/1080p-netflix-coming-to-tivo.html


Great!!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

davezatz said:


> Gabe from Tech of the Hub said last fall it'd be 1080p.
> 
> http://www.techofthehub.com/2011/10/1080p-netflix-coming-to-tivo.html


I think any device that can output 1080p and support Netflix's adaptive bitrate streaming will do 1080p on Netflix. Surely TiVo is switching to the adaptive streaming method. I think any new client created today pretty much has to use the new way of streaming.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I think any device that can output 1080p and support Netflix's adaptive bitrate streaming will do 1080p on Netflix.


The new Xbox Netflix player is an exception. Since nothing does 1080p on the Xbox after the recent update except the player for Microsoft's Zune Video service (neither Netflix or VUDU), this is thought to be part of an evil plan by Microsoft .


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Is that some sort of mockup? Because the movie they have selected on the left does not match the description on the right.

Dan


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## DarthObiwan (Apr 9, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Is that some sort of mockup? Because the movie they have selected on the left does not match the description on the right.
> 
> Dan


Ha I didn't even notice that. All the pics look like they were shots from a live tv. It could be we are seeing some lag between selecting an item and the description updating.. which in traditional Tivo fashion wouldn't be all that surprising.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

DarthObiwan said:


> Pretty much the exact same interface as the PS3. Nice


And as such I expect that it's the same Webkit/HTML5 based interface.


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## moose53 (Aug 30, 2011)

Can't wait to get the new Tivo/Netflix upgrade. I just ran into the 100 episodes limit, apparently ... spent a half hour trying to figure out why I couldn't find two shows that I had just added :AAARGH:

From the samples posted on Endgadget, it looks like they're still thinking of using the white text on black screen interface. I'd love to get my hands on the "genius" that figured that anyone over the age of 40 can read white print on anything. I had cataract surgery two years ago. According to my opthalmologist, I have 20/20 vision. I CANNOT see the text on most of the menus and search boxes. I really wish Tivo would allow us to set the color scheme that we want to use.

Barb


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

moose53 said:


> I really wish Tivo would allow us to set the color scheme that we want to use.


I suspect that this is Netflix's Webkit/HTML5 interface, UI code downloaded dynamically from Netflix. As such I don't believe that TiVo has anything to do with the presentation part of it. It's substantially identical to the same interface on the PS3 and Boxee Box (sadly so--the original UI that I had on the PS3 which is still on my BD player is much superior).

I'm 53 and I've never had any problem reading white text on black backgrounds.


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## imatt (Feb 24, 2009)

Pair this news with the discussion I had with support back in July, and looks like us TivoHD users get the upgrade too!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8598210#post8598210


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

imatt said:


> Pair this news with the discussion I had with support back in July, and looks like us TivoHD users get the upgrade too!
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8598210#post8598210


Despite your conversation with a phone CSR, I strongly doubt it. TiVo's commitment to new features on the Series3 devices seems to be pretty much dead. We'll see.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

imatt said:


> Pair this news with the discussion I had with support back in July, and looks like us TivoHD users get the upgrade too!
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8598210#post8598210


It's possible but I wouldn't count on it. TiVo support isn't known for providing accurate information on upcoming changes.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The older units cannot use Hulu, so I would not be surprised if the new upgrade does not appear on the older units. On the other hand, since this is an app hosted by netflix (my understanding- could be wrong how it works), I can also see them making it backwards compatible so they can eliminate supporting two different apps. Hmmm


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> On the other hand, since this is an app hosted by netflix (my understanding- could be wrong how it works), I can also see them making it backwards compatible so they can eliminate supporting two different apps.


If it is the Webkit/HTML5 GUI, TiVo would still have to port Webkit to Series3 as well as a the video playback component. The portion hosted by Netflix is only the user interface (see this).


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

imatt said:


> looks like us TivoHD users get the upgrade too


I'l bet you $20 it doesn't happen.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.techofthehub.com/2012/01/tivos-netflix-player-preview.html


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

davezatz said:


> I'l bet you $20 it doesn't happen.


I win. (Sorry.)

https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/157225663609311233



> No, the Netflix & YouTube apps are Flash-based, and the Series3/HD cannot run Flash.


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## DarthObiwan (Apr 9, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Is that some sort of mockup? Because the movie they have selected on the left does not match the description on the right.
> 
> Dan


Well it looks like I was spot on with the description not updating right away. @sbiller's video show exactly that happening. Hopefully they can speed that up before the release.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

davezatz said:


> I win. (Sorry.)
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/157225663609311233


Apparently built on Flash and not the Webkit/HTML5 UI. Weird that TiVo'd ape that UI--I'd expect them to use their own look-and-feel.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

moose53 said:


> Can't wait to get the new Tivo/Netflix upgrade. I just ran into the 100 episodes limit, apparently ... spent a half hour trying to figure out why I couldn't find two shows that I had just added :AAARGH:
> 
> From the samples posted on Endgadget, it looks like they're still thinking of using the white text on black screen interface. I'd love to get my hands on the "genius" that figured that anyone over the age of 40 can read white print on anything. I had cataract surgery two years ago. According to my opthalmologist, I have 20/20 vision. I CANNOT see the text on most of the menus and search boxes. I really wish Tivo would allow us to set the color scheme that we want to use.
> 
> Barb


What's wrong with white print? Even my parents in their 70's have no problem reading white print(My mom has had cataract surgery). Even my brother who is 50 and will eventually need a cornea transplant can read white text.

I also have no problem with white print in my mid 40's.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

White print on a dark background seems pretty common in these streaming apps--perhaps it's considered generally easier on the eyes in a darkened room.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Those are my pics from CES last year -


Somewhat (or entirely) off topic, but here's a shot from the entrance to TiVo's "booth" this year.


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## Renesis (Feb 27, 2007)

Let's hope the new youtube interface can remember your username and password.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Some more interesting info from Margret on Twitter..it seems the Hulu and Netflix (and I'd assume Amazon) apps are actually developed by their respective companies, not TiVo. Tivo is ultimately responsible for their customers' experience, but at least there's a reason why sometimes these apps are crap


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Renesis said:


> Let's hope the new youtube interface can remember your username and password.


Doesn't it remember it now? I just went to the YouTube app and it still shows the option to sign out.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

JosephB said:


> ..it seems the Hulu and Netflix (and I'd assume Amazon) apps are actually developed by their respective companies, not TiVo.


Which'd explain why they used that standard Netflix GUI design already on the PS3 and Boxee Box.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> Which'd explain why they used that standard Netflix GUI design already on the PS3 and Boxee Box.


I think this is a change for TiVo. With Hulu Plus they finally agreed to allow a different user experience for a 3rd party content provider. This is a bit confusing and jarring when transitioning to Hulu Plus. On the other hand, Hulu Plus is now nicely integrated into the unified browse and search so the impact on the user is minimized.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

It does, though, mean that TiVo can add additional providers with minimal effort. Some news from CES is that they're hiring an API guy, apparently in a bid to enable even more apps. This would let them provide specs to people like HBO Go, NHL online, etc. without having to take away engineers from the core TiVo experience. Also allows providers who may not want to give up THEIR standard customer experience to present their service how they want on TiVo instead of how TiVo wants


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## RangerOne (Dec 30, 2006)

JosephB said:


> It does, though, mean that TiVo can add additional providers with minimal effort. Some news from CES is that they're hiring an API guy, apparently in a bid to enable even more apps. This would let them provide specs to people like HBO Go, NHL online, etc. without having to take away engineers from the core TiVo experience. Also allows providers who may not want to give up THEIR standard customer experience to present their service how they want on TiVo instead of how TiVo wants


Yes, MegaZone posted about the program here:
http://www.gizmolovers.com/2012/01/19/tivo-teases-the-tivo-platform-sdk/


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## imatt (Feb 24, 2009)

davezatz said:


> I win. (Sorry.)
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/157225663609311233


Now I don't feel bad for purchasing a WDTV Live HD just for netflix. At least it does HD and 5.1. BIG change from the Tivo Netflix app. Couldn't believe the quality jump.

Still would buy a Premier if they would transfer my lifetime subscription from my TivoHD...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm looking forward to the Netflix App on the Premiere as long as it outputs 1080P24. Since my Algolith Flea has a max input of 1080P24. So even with the lower 720P resolution from the TiVo, With the Algolith Flea processing the signal, it typically looks better than the 1080P Netflix content from any device I've used capable of the 1080P Netflix streams. But like the Roku2 they typically output at 1080p60 and not 1080P24, so I can't run it through my Algolith flea. So I can see all the imperfections from the Netflix 1080P streaming. The Algolith Flea does a great job cleaning it up, just like it does from broadcast stations.

EDIT: although I just realized that the Flea is only an HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 device so I might be SOL anyway since you need at least HDMI 1.3 for DD+. Is there an HDMI box that can strip the audio and video and send them through two different HDMI outputs?


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I'm looking forward to the Netflix App on the Premiere as long as it outputs 1080P24. Since my Algolith Flea has a max input of 1080P24. So even with the lower 720P resolution from the TiVo, With the Algolith Flea processing the signal, it typically looks better than the 1080P Netflix content from any device I've used capable of the 1080P Netflix streams. But like the Roku2 they typically output at 1080p60 and not 1080P24, so I can't run it through my Algolith flea. So I can see all the imperfections from the Netflix 1080P streaming. The Algolith Flea does a great job cleaning it up, just like it does from broadcast stations.
> 
> EDIT: although I just realized that the Flea is only an HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 device so I might be SOL anyway since you need at least HDMI 1.3 for DD+. Is there an HDMI box that can strip the audio and video and send them through two different HDMI outputs?


Since the TiVo Premiere only supports 1080p/24 pass-through how will it handle Netflix video that is encoded at 30fps? Will Netflix only send 1080p HD to the TiVo that is encoded in 24fps?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

sbiller said:


> Since the TiVo Premiere only supports 1080p/24 pass-through how will it handle Netflix video that is encoded at 30fps? Will Netflix only send 1080p HD to the TiVo that is encoded in 24fps?


I don't understand what you think the problem is. TiVo has to decode the video, period--it can't just pass it through. The current TiVo app is getting 24p, 30p and 25p from TiVo and turning it all into 60p or 60i. I assume that new app on TiVo premiere will only change in that it will be able to handle the 1080p encodings and output those and the other encodings for a title at 24p (if, indeed, it can output 24p).

Most Netflix movies and a lot of HD television is encoded at 24p, some British stuff is encoded 25p, all older television and some movies at 30p. If you want to see what frame rate a title is encoded at, play it in the PC web player and, before blowing it up fullscreen, left-click the picture to give the player focus and hit CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D. This will overlay the picture with some realtime-updated diagnostic information; you can read the native frame rate of the title on the line marked "Video Frames (rendered/dropped)".


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The Premiere has no issue outputting 1080P24. Most of the TV content I've purchased from Amazon and played on my Premieres has been in the 1080P24 format.

I guess we will find out soon enough what it does since it's already the middle of April. Hopefully the update will start rolling out soon.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> I don't understand what you think the problem is. TiVo has to decode the video, period--it can't just pass it through. The current TiVo app is getting 24p, 30p and 25p from TiVo and turning it all into 60p or 60i. I assume that new app on TiVo premiere will only change in that it will be able to handle the 1080p encodings and output those and the other encodings for a title at 24p (if, indeed, it can output 24p).
> 
> Most Netflix movies and a lot of HD television is encoded at 24p, some British stuff is encoded 25p, all older television and some movies at 30p. If you want to see what frame rate a title is encoded at, play it in the PC web player and, before blowing it up fullscreen, left-click the picture to give the player focus and hit CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D. This will overlay the picture with some realtime-updated diagnostic information; you can read the native frame rate of the title on the line marked "Video Frames (rendered/dropped)".


Go to your video settings screen. You'll see that the 1080 is 24fps pass-through only right on the screen. The Broadcom processor in the Premiere doesn't have the ability to change 1080p video.

Per Gabe @TechOfTheHub,



> There are other devices out there that will play Netflix content at 1080P / 24 fps. However, you have to manually put the device in that mode (e.g. Panasonic and LG Blu-ray players ). Theres no device Ive seen yet that auto-detects the frame rate that Netflix content is encoded at and then properly sends the native frame rate to the TV. Bu-ray players do this with no problem. In theory, its just up to the device manufacturers to build this into their Netflix clients.
> 
> The Premiere simply supports pass-through at 1080P. So, the question is how is the TiVo Netflix player dealing with 1080 / 30 FPS content? One possibility is that its actually 1080i / 30 or 60 fps. Another possibility is the TiVo is somehow dropping frames and forcing it to 1080P/24 fps.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> Most Netflix movies and a lot of HD television is encoded at 24p, some British stuff is encoded 25p, all older television and some movies at 30p. If you want to see what frame rate a title is encoded at, play it in the PC web player and, before blowing it up fullscreen, left-click the picture to give the player focus and hit CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D. This will overlay the picture with some realtime-updated diagnostic information; you can read the native frame rate of the title on the line marked "Video Frames (rendered/dropped)".


Thanks for the CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D trick. It does appear that most TV shows I selected were being output at 24p. The Premiere will not have a problem passing 24p through. I couldn't find an HD title that had 30fps. Can you point me to one?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

sbiller said:


> Go to your video settings screen. You'll see that the 1080 is 24fps pass-through only right on the screen. The Broadcom processor in the Premiere doesn't have the ability to change 1080p video.


So what's called "pass-through" means that it can only process 1080p24 into 24p output and can't do pull-down type tricks to turn it into 60p or 60i. When I think of "pass-through" I think of taking an input and passing it through without processing it at all, like some Netflix devices treat its DD+ 5.1 sound (the Roku 2 among them; if your AVR can't deal with DD+, you're SOL). It has to decode the MPEG or AVC or VC-1 into a raster for output.

I don't know of any 30p HD Netflix titles. I went through the 49 assorted television series in my IQ and only 5 were encoded 30p and only the earlier seasons of some of those. They were _South Park: A Very Buttery Collection_, _Star Trek: Deep Space 9_ (shot on 35mm, but printed to SD video), early _Phineas and Ferb_, early _Futurama_ and _Painkiller Jane_, a Starz production--I don't think that they've ever been given HD sources for Starz stuff.


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