# What is this 6 limit thing ?



## jhillestad (Jul 13, 2004)

I dont understand the six limit thing:

Note: DIRECTV® services sold separately. A maximum of six (6) receivers may be leased per year, but not more than two (2) DVR receivers, two (2) HD receivers and one (1) HD DVR receiver may by leased in a given year. A separate monthly equipment leasing fee of $4.99 applies.

If someone wants to upgrade 3 or 4 sets to HD they cant because they are limited to ONE unit per year ?!? What does this limit mean and WHY ! 

I currently OWN 2 HD tivo units but may add more , are they gonna say NO or something ?!? Is this some new communist method of doing business ?

Sounds like its 4.99 per month per unit as well... is this a new way of calling it a slave receiver ? So if you lease one unit you still get to pay 4.99 ? plus the 5.99 tivo fee ?

What genius at DTV thought of this new and improved method ?

Cable companies do this crap but dont charge you $500 for the upstart ! What is this 500.00 for a lease and then 4.99....

Sounds like they have had a lot of people buying these units and never activating and stripping them for parts or something.....

Lord help us , the dark ship is showing us its ugly inner self - I hope DISH can revive voom dvr / tivo in case DTV forces me to abandon ship !


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## bhorstkotte (Jan 24, 2002)

jhillestad said:


> ...A maximum of six (6) receivers may be *leased* per year, but not more than two (2) DVR receivers, two (2) HD receivers and one (1) HD DVR receiver may by *leased* in a given year.


You bought your receivers, right? Based on the wording, this shouldn't affect you.


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## SecureTalk (Apr 8, 2002)

Wording seems unclear. 

1) Do they mean that in a one year period you can only lease X many receivers of each type during any year. 

2) Or do they are they saying each year you can double the number of each type of receiver leased. 

Why would they make limit on receivers leased unless they want to charge more for commercial use of their service.

I think one reason to limit the number of leased receivers is to let them determine who is using the DirecTV service for residential use and those for commercial like a sports bar with 20 TVs.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

My guess is this is a poorly worded way of saying you will have to pay more for additional receivers above what is shown. I think they are just trying to limit any subsidies (though they have made a drastic turn on that point lately. Either they will be wildly profitable or loses lots of customers)


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

I don't understand the limit of one HD DVR per year. Maybe if they were in short supply. E* has a limit on the new ViP622 HD DVR but I believe it's a supply problem. Or if D* was heavily subsidizing maybe they would want the limit, but at $499, doesn't seem so.

D* supposedly will still allow ownership, but once the current supply of receivers/DVRs is out of the pipeline, they will cost a lot more. Buy now if you want to own. D* sells the HR10 to own at $899, which is what I paid for my first one in Dec 2004.

Most lease deals have upfront cost. E* has upfront cost and so does housing and auto leasing.

When I first learned about this lease plan I was deadset against it. Now after analyzing it, it is looking better.

The problem for me at first was the shock of the $499 upfront cost. But since there is no monthly lease fee, that amounts to little over $20/mo over 2 years. Maybe D* should give us that option, i.e., $20/mo and $0 upfront and heavier penalties for early cancellation. Also remember installation is free, something important to a lot of people.

But I think one of the big problems for D* is trying to reduce churn (subscriber turnover). So the big upfront cost maybe is aimed at this problem. It just might scare the hell out of some people but a monthly fee with zero or low upfront cost would to easier to stomach.


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## jhillestad (Jul 13, 2004)

There is a lease fee of $4.99 per month.

I have plans to eventually replace all my tv's with HD units how can this be done with a limit of 1 per year ?

So what about someone how buys a new house and wants three HD units (bedroom,living room,den) they can only buy 1 hd tivo according to that description... Why would they do that?!?

I guess their goal is to have no secondary market on receivers (ebay) because its a lease you cannot sell an old unit after you upgrade... you merely return it to them....

I dont believe them about support either, I bet you when you call to tell them your hdmi is dead they'll blame you and charge you a damage fee.... 

I guess this also put an end to upgrading your tivo to a higher capacity ?

All this and I get to pay $500 for the luxury !


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

jhillestad said:


> I dont understand the six limit thing:
> 
> Note: DIRECTV® services sold separately. A maximum of six (6) receivers may be leased per year, but not more than two (2) DVR receivers, two (2) HD receivers and one (1) HD DVR receiver may by leased in a given year. A separate monthly equipment leasing fee of $4.99 applies.


Very simple:

1) You may lease no more than 6 receivers in a year total. End of story.

2) Of those six, no more than 2 can be DVRs.

3) Of those six, no more than 2 can be HD receivers.

4) Of those six, no more than 1 can be an HD DVR.

So, can you lease 2 HD DVRs in one year? No.

Can you lease 3 SD DVRs? No.

Can you lease 3 HD receivers (non-DVR)? No.

If you leased two R15 units, two H20 units, and one HR10-250 in a year and you wanted to add a sixth receiver that year, your only option would be an SD non-DVR receiver (D15? D20? I dunno).


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

*Potential customer:* "Hello, cable company, I would like cable service in 7 rooms in my house. I need 3 of them to be Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVRs."

*CableCo CSR*: "Sure, when would you like us to show up. We have appointsments between 1 and 5 on Friday or 8-12 and 1-5 on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday."

That is why this must be a mistake in the language or D* is going to lose their best customers.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

So again, DirecTV disenfranchises the high-end customers.

I've got two HD TV's, and only use DVR's. I can't be a DirecTV customer?


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

jhillestad said:


> There is a lease fee of $4.99 per month. ...


Like I mentioned in the post right above yours, the first one has no lease fee, only extras are charged $4.99/mo. Same as before, now it's called a "lease fee", before it was called "mirror fee". Same price if "leased" or "owned". Small consolation but lots of people are thinking monthly fees are increased for leasing. Not true. And with leasing, the protection plan on the receiver or DVR is included for no charge.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> So again, DirecTV disenfranchises the high-end customers.
> 
> I've got two HD TV's, and only use DVR's. I can't be a DirecTV customer?


No. I don't read it that way. You simply can't *LEASE* more than six units in a year. I would imagine on the 7th unit (or 2nd HD-DVR, etc.) in a given year you would be forced into *PURCHASING* the unit at the higher purchase price.

Remember, even with the new leasing model you still have the option of purchasing the unit at a higher cost than the upfront lease payment.

Yes, it is a scam. But, yes, you can still get 7 or 700 units in a year if you want. It is just that only 6 of those 7 or 700 units can be leased. All the rest must be purchased.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Yes, it is a scam.


Exactly.

DirecTV claims in words to want to focus on their high-end customers, but all their actions say exactly the opposite.

As soon as the Series 3 is available, I'm gone.


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## jhillestad (Jul 13, 2004)

Well then what is the PURCHASE Price ?!?!?!

I USED to be able to BUY a hd tivo for $500 NOW thats the starting price ???!???!!!!??

So if someone leases their first unit and it gets stolen or falls off the shelf their cooked for the 500 and whatever DTV declares the purchase price to be ???!!!!??? So they can just make up a purchase price and your stuck like chuck ? This is better how ?

If they want to lease fine but it should be ZERO money down and a lease , $500 should be a purchase ! This is crazy , this is like the cable modem scenario , they lease me a cable modem for more than I can buy one for but wont let me buy one because they wont activate it.

Are they going to make you pay for wear and tear like a leased car too ???? Why dont they also lease me the dish and Rg6 cable while they are at it! $200 for Phase3 dish and $50 for Rg6 cable pack and $2.99 per month with a 3 year commitment on all cables.... Sounds like a bargain!

Name me ONE cable company that charges you $500 for a decoder ! 

This lease thing is pure crap and bordering on scam. a month ago you could BUY a hd tivo for the same price as the lease in price. If it were zero down and say $10 a month I would not have a problem with the plan BUT this is nuts to LIMIT how many HD boxes I can use in my house!

looks like Myth TV just got very appealing to a lot of people. Tivo needs to come out with a stand alone over the air box pronto!

Why dont I just lease my next plasma screen from DTV while I am at it. Pay full price then not own it --- YEAH!!!!!

Oh ya DTV will allow only ONE Plasma lease per year the rest must be crt 4x3 sets.... they make the rules sorry...

I will put HD in as many rooms as I damn will want! Screw DTV for telling me I can only have ONE unit!

I really hope Dish/Voom are watching this DTV fiasco very closely , there is a real chance here that a lot of high end customers are about to be royally pissed and jump.

I'm curious SpankyinChicago why you think this is a good thing ? If I want all 5 tv's in my house to be HD and have an hd tivo hooked to it , why would DTV not want me as a customer? instead they are going to tell me to take one hd dvr, 2 norms and the rest SD ? WHY? Whats it to them? 

As I replace my standard 4x3 sets with lcd,dlp,plasma's I now have to ASK DTV if its okay with them ? And when they say 'No soup for you' Im suppose to just accept it and wait one year so I can lease one more.... 

I dont even care about the lease as much as I peeved about them deciding for me I can only have on hd recorder per year - this smells like RIAA crap !


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

jhillestad said:


> I'm curious SpankyinChicago why you think this is a good thing ?


I don't know why you got the impression that I think it is a good thing. I don't. I was just explaining the policies / procedures as I understand them to be helpful.

I think the new lease model is a scam. It is not competitive with cable, and cable is who DirecTV is competing with. But, scam or not, the point remains that you can still get 7 or 700 units in a year if you like. It is just that the first six can be leased and the remainder would have to be purchased at a higher cost than the lease price.

So, please don't consider me a supporter of the new model. I am not.


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## tomlog (Aug 22, 2005)

hiker said:


> I don't understand the limit of one HD DVR per year. Maybe if they were in short supply. E* has a limit on the new ViP622 HD DVR but I believe it's a supply problem. Or if D* was heavily subsidizing maybe they would want the limit, but at $499, doesn't seem so.
> 
> D* supposedly will still allow ownership, but once the current supply of receivers/DVRs is out of the pipeline, they will cost a lot more. Buy now if you want to own. D* sells the HR10 to own at $899, which is what I paid for my first one in Dec 2004.
> 
> ...


What D* crack pipe have you been smoking from. I am a little different here I have D* 2 HDTivos and 2SDtivos and at the same time I work for the nations largest MSO as a headend tech but alas no cable where I live. The only limit we ever put on HD DVR's is due to supply if we have enough supply and you want 10 HD DVR's you get them. The monthly cost for the DVR with HiDef channels is $9.95 and the upfront cost 0 zip nada nothing and these units cost us $575.00 per unit. As for install 99% of our installs are FREE. Another thing the 4.99 mirror fee is a scam the only reason we charge a mirror fee is to recover the cost of the converter. No programmer charges us by the number of converters they charge us by sub no matter if that sub has 1 or 50 boxes. This whole lease scam by D* is a nice way to raise the bottom line and show alot of assets that belong to the company. So is it still looking good if it does I have a few things I would like to sell you and after awhile maybe they will look as good to you.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

I thought I understood this, but now I'm confused. I recently ordered 6 D* receivers for a relative who will be a new customer. The package includes 2 HD TiVos, 2 D* DVR's and 2 regular receivers. They were all delivered today and are all suppose to be under the lease program. However, how did I get 4 DVR's, including 2 HD TiVos if the limit was as indicated above? I didn't pay a higher price for any of this stuff, it all was under the lease price. BTW -I tried to do it via owned since the owned price quoted was only in total for the entire package about $100 more than the total lease price. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Also, I assume that for the 4 DVRs, I'll pay $4.99/ receiver, plus the TiVo monthly charge (about $5) on just one DVR and that will be mirrorred to the other 3 DVRs. Is that correct?


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

RMSko said:


> I thought I understood this, but now I'm confused. I recently ordered 6 D* receivers for a relative who will be a new customer. The package includes 2 HD TiVos, 2 D* DVR's and 2 regular receivers. They were all delivered today and are all suppose to be under the lease program. However, how did I get 4 DVR's, including 2 HD TiVos if the limit was as indicated above? I didn't pay a higher price for any of this stuff, it all was under the lease price. BTW -I tried to do it via owned since the owned price quoted was only in total for the entire package about $100 more than the total lease price. Does anyone have any thoughts?
> 
> Also, I assume that for the 4 DVRs, I'll pay $4.99/ receiver, plus the TiVo monthly charge (about $5) on just one DVR and that will be mirrorred to the other 3 DVRs. Is that correct?


Interesting, but not surprising. I think it probably comes down to how well different CSR's understand the "lease" program. None of it makes much sense.

Are you saying that they refused to allow you to buy-to-own?

You're almost correct on the fees...$5.99 per month for all DVR service (no matter how many you have) and $4.99 per any additional receiver after the first one (DVR or not). So they'll pay $4.99 x 5 if they have 6 total receivers. That's if all your equipment is leased. If any of your equipment is owned (existing customers), you pay the $4.99 on every single receiver you own. I got that from the T&C's from BB found on a post in another forum as follows:

DIRECTV Terms and Conditions

By placing this order you agree to the following terms and conditions:

 YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NOT PURCHASED THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT, YOU DO NOT OWN THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AND THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT MUST BE USED AND RETURNED TO DIRECTV STRICTLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THE EQUIPMENT LEASE ADDENDUM AND THE DIRECTV CUSTOMER AGREEMENT.
 PROGRAMMING AGREEMENT. Within 30 days of provision of DIRECTV equipment to you, you agree to activate any DIRECTV® TOTAL CHOICE® programming package (valued at $44.99 per mo. or above), or any DIRECTV PARA TODOS® programming package (valued at $29.99 per mo. or above); or any qualifying international services bundle, which bundle shall include either the DIRECTV® BASIC programming package (valued at $9.99 per mo.) or the DIRECTV PREFERRED CHOICE? programming package (valued at $29.99 per mo.) together with any WorldDirect? international-language service. In certain markets, programming and pricing may vary.
 DVR service activation ($5.99/mo.) required for DVR and HD DVR leases.
 PROGRAMMING AND PRICING SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME.
 PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT. The programming package(s) must be maintained for a period of not less than (a) twelve (12) consecutive months (for accounts with only standard receiver(s)), or (b) twenty-four (24) consecutive months (for accounts with advanced product(s)/receiver(s)-digital video recorder (DVR), high definition receiver (HD) or high definition digital video recorder (HDDVR), including additional DIRECTV receiver(s)). After you have fulfilled your agreement to the required programming package(s), you are not obligated to continue your subscription to DIRECTV programming for any specific duration. Current DIRECTV customers may activate additional receivers with their existing DIRECTV programming package. THIS PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT IS SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT YOU MAY HAVE MADE WITH DIRECTV AND IS FULLY ENFORCEABLE UNDER THESE TERMS.
 MONTHLY LEASE FEE. For a new DIRECTV customer, you will be charged a monthly lease fee in the amount of $4.99 per 2nd and each additional receiver leased by you in your household. For a current customer, you will be charged a monthly fee in the amount of $4.99 for each receiver leased by you in your household, unless you replace all of your owned-equipment with leased equipment, in which case, the monthly lease fee will be waived for the 1st receiver. Applicable taxes will apply. LEASE FEE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME.
 CARE OF EQUIPMENT. You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time. DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.
 CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR FAILURE TO ACTIVATE PROGRAMMING OR SATISFY YOUR PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT. If you fail to activate your DIRECTV equipment within 30 days of DIRECTVs provision of the DIRECTV equipment to you, you agree that DIRECTV or an authorized DIRECTV Retailer may charge you a fee, as liquidated damages, of $150 for each receiver that is not activated. If you fail to maintain your minimum programming commitment, you agree that DIRECTV may charge you a prorated fee of up to $150 for standard receivers and up to $300 for advanced products/receivers (e.g. DVR, HD, HD DVR, etc.).
 RETURN OF DIRECTV EQUIPMETNT. If you cancel your order prior to installation, we will issue a full refund. However, once your system is installed and activated, we do not accept returns or issue refunds.
 After installation, if you cease to be DIRECTVs customer for any reason (whether voluntary or involuntary) or if you decide to disconnect/cancel/terminate your DVR service (if you are leasing a DVR Receiver), you must call DIRECTV within seven (7) days after the termination of your DIRECTV programming services or DVR service, as applicable, to (i) make arrangements for DIRECTV to pick up all of your DIRECTV equipment; or (ii) obtain information from DIRECTV necessary to arrange for a ground or air freight service to pick up and deliver all of your DIRECTV equipment to DIRECTV. You acknowledge that the DIRECTV equipment belongs to DIRECTV and the DIRECTV equipment, including the access card inserted into each receiver, must be returned to DIRECTV in good working order, normal wear and tear excepted. In the event that all of the DIRECTV equipment is not returned to DIRECTV within thirty (30) days of the termination of your DIRECTV programming services or is damaged when it is returned to DIRECTV, you agree to pay DIRECTV the sum of $55 per each DIRECTV standard receiver; $200 for each DIRECTV DVR Receiver; $240 for each DIRECTV HD Receiver; or $470 for each DIRECTV HD DVR Receiver that is not returned to DIRECTV or that is damaged when it is returned to DIRECTV as compensation for a portion of the expenses incurred by DIRECTV in establishing your account and providing you the DIRECTV equipment for your use. Visit DIRECTV.com or call 1-800- 531-5000 for details.
 Your receiver must be continuously connected to a land-based phone line to activate certain sports programming and to allow pay per view ordering by remote control.
 All ACH transactions are subject to settle the day after the order is placed.
 ARBITRATION. You and DIRECTV agree that both parties will resolve any dispute arising under this Equipment Lease Addendum, the DIRECTV Customer Agreement or any other addendum thereto, or regarding your DIRECTV programming service, through binding arbitration as fully set forth in the DIRECTV Customer Agreement.


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## jhillestad (Jul 13, 2004)

Hey tomlog the lease program clearly says ONE PER YEAR (hd tivo) and it costs $500 to LEASE IT not ZERO. Where did you get the $575 purchase price from? So tell me how to buy 10 units in the same year and not fall under the forced lease program and the limit of one ?

Go into circuit city and try to buy three units... I bet they wont sell it to you, you can lease ONE however just one not three.... so two rooms wont get a hd dvr ?

Like I asked before what is the official purchase price of the hd tivo or hd dvr from DTV if I want to break the ONE unit per year limit ?????????

Tomlog lets say you were helping a friend setup his house with three new hd plasma's and three new hd tivo's how would you do this under the new lease program from DTV , please be specific on price..... again all sets will have hd recording ability and have DTV on them. The way the limit read only one set would record and the rest would just play... how exactly do you walk into the store and buy/lease three EXACT HD-250's for a NEW customer ?


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

eengert said:


> Are you saying that they refused to allow you to buy-to-own?


That is correct, the vendor would not allow me to buy-to-own. I'm still going to tell D* it's owned and see what happens.

jhillestad - you are saying you can't lease more than one HD TiVo, however, I've just gotten 2 delivered from a very reputable dealer - plus an additional 2 DVRs. So I can say that it is possible, although these have not yet been activated so it may be that we'll have a problem on activation???


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

I just learned that the own option is still available, but only for existing customers. Also, the limit on DVRs applies to sales directly by D* and by consumer electronics chain stores, but not other dealers (such as VE).


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

RMSko said:


> I just learned that the own option is still available, but only for existing customers. Also, the limit on DVRs applies to sales directly by D* and by consumer electronics chain stores, but not other dealers (such as VE).


Well, that must make you happy, Robert. D* is helping your business. So that's what this is all about! D* wants to help the small business owners of America. Such a noble cause.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

jhillestad said:



> ...Go into circuit city and try to buy three units... I bet they wont sell it to you, you can lease ONE however just one not three.... so two rooms wont get a hd dvr ?...


I'm skeptical about this being a D* policy...
The only palce I'vce seen this one per year limit is on the CC web page for the HR10. It is not mentioned in D*'s lease agreement. Now we have an example of someone who got 2 HR10's which seems to mean that D*'s computer did not flag it as a limit.

So does anyone have this in writing from a D* source or retailer other than CC?


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

jhillestad said:


> Hey tomlog the lease program clearly says ONE PER YEAR (hd tivo) and it costs $500 to LEASE IT not ZERO. Where did you get the $575 purchase price from?


I got the impression that tomlog works for E* and was explaining E* policies.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

I edited my last post based on new information and included the T&C's for your own reading. It's pretty clear what the deal is after reading them, and I don't like it very much that you pay a huge up front price, plus a monthly fee, and then you don't even own the equipment (if you're under the "lease" program). Apparently if you buy from a smaller retailer you can still buy to own, but the only benefit you get there is that you own the equipment. You still have the huge up front purchase price and the monthly fee, plus you'd probably have to buy the protection plan on top of that if you want your equipment covered by D*. And I've read some stories of having a difficult time getting D* to activate the receiver as being owned. One guy spent 2 hours on the phone to finally get them to do it. I like the idea of leasing, but I don't like the sounds of this particular "lease" program. Not everyone is willing to pay huge up front cost for something they don't even own. Some may not even be able to financially, and I can see that driving some customers away. And that would be the HD customers, since the biggest cost is on the HD equipment. It has caused me very actively re-research all of my entertainment options. None fit my needs any better than D* at the moment since I have Adelphia in my area, but they'll soon be TWC and could present another option. Since I own all my equipment right now, I'm Ok (except that I'll have another $4.99 per month charge now on my 1st receiver), but when one dies or it comes time to upgrade, that could be a decision point for me. And it didn't have to be that way - it's cause mostly by this new program that they call a lease. Oh well, it's just TV, right?


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

eengert said:


> ... (except that I'll have another $4.99 per month charge now on my 1st receiver) ...


There is no $4.99/mo charge for the 1st receiver whether you lease or own. It's only charged for extra receivers.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

hiker said:


> There is no $4.99/mo charge for the 1st receiver whether you lease or own. It's only charged for extra receivers.


The T&C's say unless you lease all receivers in your house, you pay the fee on all leased receivers. The only way the fee is waived on your 1st leased receiver is if all your receivers are leased. I guess you're saying the same thing in a different way. As long as they count one of your owned receivers as the 1st receiver, you'll never pay the monthly fee on the 1st receiver.

After re-reading, I realize that the fee only applies to leased equipment. So anything you own has no lease fee. So I was incorrect in saying that I would be receiving and additional $4.99 charge right now because I own both my DVRs.

From the T&C's:

"For a new DIRECTV customer, you will be charged a monthly lease fee in the amount of $4.99 per 2nd and each additional receiver leased by you in your household. *For a current customer, you will be charged a monthly fee in the amount of $4.99 for each receiver leased by you in your household, unless you replace all of your owned-equipment with leased equipment, in which case, the monthly lease fee will be waived for the 1st receiver.* Applicable taxes will apply. LEASE FEE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME."


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

Here's the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong.

Effectively you pay, ($4.99 times number of receivers) minus $4.99
Stated another way, (number of receivers minus 1) times $4.99

So if, for example, I have 5 receivers, I pay ($4.99 x 5) - $4.99 = $19.96
And it doesn't matter if I am all leased, all owned, or a mix. 

I think the old additional receiver mirroring fee will now be called a leasing fee even if you own, which I think will cause a lot of confusion and phone calls even though the charges are the same.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

hiker said:


> Here's the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Effectively you pay, ($4.99 times number of receivers) minus $4.99
> Stated another way, (number of receivers minus 1) times $4.99
> ...


According to the T&C's, that is correct. The only caveat is that if you own any receivers, one of the owned receivers will have to be counted as your 1st receiver in order for the fee to be waived on that receiver. But I think that will be the case by default since if you start leasing any equipment, it'll either be your only equipment or subsequent equipment to that which you already own. So the short answer in most, if not all, cases is $4.99 per reciever (whether leased or owned) after the first.


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## audvid (Jul 26, 2003)

I am a bit confused:

1. I can buy online or from other retailers a HR10 250 for around $450.
2. Why would I want to pay $400 ro $500 and still pay a monthly lease from directv?

What am I missing. Is it a good idea to simply buy an extra hr10 250 and keep it in storage for future - since they won't be sold after the current pipeline is exhausted? I was thinking about it but considering that mpeg4 hd is coming out, I thought that it would go obsolete in a year.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

audvid said:


> I am a bit confused:
> 
> 1. I can buy online or from other retailers a HR10 250 for around $450.


You'd better read the fine print. You may well be spending that $450 to *lease* the unit.


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## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

For what is is worth, I BOUGHT a new HR10-250 for $409 from Newegg.com this week and made sure I got it as an outright sale. While I initially got static from DirecTV CSR's when I activated it they finally did activate it as MY equipment and not a lease! 

I also found out that there are many on-line retailers who are selling the HR10-250 in the $400 to $500 range outright. DirecTV says they will activate these as owned equipment for NEW or current subscribers as they have no control over what a retailer wants to SELL DirecTV equipment obtained before March 1. If you want to buy one instead of lease you can. Just make sure it is sold outright.


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## audvid (Jul 26, 2003)

Well Bill, your comments are worth at lot! I too was going to buy one from Newegg but I am not so sure its worth keeping one in storage. I did not realize that directv would be giving a hard time to existing customers. After all, you purchased it legally.

I am assuming that new mpeg4 units will be out soon (within 6 months). The way things are going, directv will soon find out that cable might become a much better option for those who want hd dvrs - would this statement be accurate?


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## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

The problem with getting it activated as my own equipment was the low-level CSR's NOT knowing what the policy is. Once I got put through to the section that can modify the lease/owned flag on my card it went fine. Of course the CSR's in the front lines are the last to find out just about anything.

To the best of my knowledge the HR10-250 is the ONLY TiVo based HD DVR. It has a good OTA digital receiver and can be repaired or modified by the owner who knows the ropes. You can not say that about any other DirecTV HD device. I think that there are many non-TiVo HD DVR's used by cable companies but Barstow's Time-Warner cable does not expect to upgrade to HD within the next four or five years. Just too small (7000 subs) to warrant the expense and there is no FCC rule that they have to (yet).


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

Bill Wood said:


> ... the HR10-250 is the ONLY TiVo based HD DVR. It has a good OTA digital receiver ...


Some (maybe many) would argue that point. I don't particularly like the sensitivity (or lack thereof) of the OTA tuner on the HR10-250, and I've read some accounts from folks who have both an HR10 and an H20 stating that the H20 clearly has a better OTA tuner. I'm not saying the HR10 tuner is really bad, but it seems to be lacking in comparison to other tuners, including the one in my SXRD.


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## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

I said "good," not the "best." ;-) I am not one to judge anyway, since there are NO digital stations that I can receive here in Barstow.


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## utvnut (Feb 4, 2004)

As one of the original DTV customers I have bought dozens of boxes gladly and now have 3 HDTivos and 2 regulsr tivos. I will NOT pay hundreds of dollars to be allowed to lease their equipment but will most likely go to cable ot dish as the HD conversion finishes.


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