# TiVoToGo protocol and Info (or how to get stuff of the tivo w/o tivo desktop)



## Danimal4326

Well, since I've been reading up on TivoToGo, and how the files work and transfers work, I thoght I'd start a thread where we can put our findings.

So here goes:

*EDIT:

Some new info.. 
*

1. The tivo now runs a web server. Not sure if it did before, but if you go to 
http://<your tivo ip> it will display a nice web page telling you that you've set up your TiVo on the network properly.

*
2a. Tivo Web interface ( thanks Marc )

https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html

using user: tivo
pass: <MAK>

It gives u a nice web interface to every show on your Tivo!!!!

*

2. Going to


PHP:


http://<your tivo ip>/TiVoConnect?AnchorOffset=0&Command=QueryContainer&Details=All&ItemCount=0

will give you nice XML output


PHP:


<TiVoContainer>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-server</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
My Tivo
<TotalItems>1</TotalItems>

<ItemStart>0</ItemStart>
<ItemCount>0</ItemCount>
</TiVoContainer>

changing the URL above to 


PHP:


http://<your tivo ip>/TiVoConnect?AnchorOffset=0&Command=QueryContainer&Details=All&ItemCount=1

gets us this usefull info



PHP:


<TiVoContainer>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-server</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
My TiVo
<TotalItems>1</TotalItems>

<ItemStart>0</ItemStart>
<ItemCount>1</ItemCount>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-videos</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
Now Playing

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
https://<your tivo ip>:443/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-videos</ContentType>
</Content>
</Links>
</Item>
</TiVoContainer>

this gives us a SSL link, and when you follow it, it installs a certificate, and then asks you for a username and password.

Thats where I thought I was stuck. I tried several user/pass combinations. Then it dawned on me.. MAK..

Entering user:tivo passwork:<media access key> ... and ta da



PHP:


<TiVoContainer>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-videos</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
Now Playing
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>9</TotalItems>

<SortOrder>Type,CaptureDate</SortOrder>
<ItemStart>0</ItemStart>
<ItemCount>9</ItemCount>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
The Simpsons
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>14</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41DCB7BE</LastCaptureDate>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F3359
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:in-progress-folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
That '70s Show
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>9</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41DC8D8E</LastCaptureDate>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F3502
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>video/x-tivo-mpeg</SourceFormat>
Las Vegas
<SourceSize>776994816</SourceSize>
<Duration>3601000</Duration>
<CaptureDate>0x41D9F89E</CaptureDate>
<EpisodeTitle>When You Got to Go, You Got to Go</EpisodeTitle>
-
	<Description>
When Ed is kidnapped, Danny and Mike franticly search the city for him, a task made more difficult by Ed refusing to let them call the police or pay the ransom.
</Description>
<SourceChannel>5-0</SourceChannel>
<SourceStation>WMAQ</SourceStation>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
http://<tivo ip address>:80/download/Las%20Vegas.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1752591
</Url>
<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:expired-recording</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
-
	<TiVoVideoDetails>
<Url>/TiVoVideoDetails?id=1752591</Url>
<ContentType>text/xml</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</TiVoVideoDetails>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>3</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41D8D4D2</LastCaptureDate>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F497944
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
South Park
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>11</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41D7A2F6</LastCaptureDate>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F3259
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
Chappelle's Show
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>3</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41B68346</LastCaptureDate>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F322100
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
Scrubs
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>5</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41B66726</LastCaptureDate>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F27048
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>video/x-tivo-mpeg</SourceFormat>
Beavis and Butt-head
<SourceSize>389021696</SourceSize>
<Duration>1799000</Duration>
<CaptureDate>0x404EA0CE</CaptureDate>
<Description>Two obnoxious teens cause trouble. Animated.</Description>
<SourceChannel>32-0</SourceChannel>
<SourceStation>MTV2</SourceStation>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
[URL]http://[/URL]<your tivo ip>:80/download/Beavis%20and%20Butt-head.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1172173
</Url>
<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:save-until-i-delete-recording</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
-
	<TiVoVideoDetails>
<Url>/TiVoVideoDetails?id=1172173</Url>
<ContentType>text/xml</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</TiVoVideoDetails>
</Links>
</Item>
-
	<Item>
-

<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
TiVo Suggestions
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>37</TotalItems>

-
	<Links>
-
	<Content>
-
	<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F0
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
	<CustomIcon>
[URL]urn:tivo:image:suggestions-in-progress-folder[/URL]
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
</TiVoContainer>

Now we're getting somewhere. Going to one of the handy links such as



PHP:


http://<your tivo ip>:80/download/Beavis%20and%20Butt-head.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1172173

it asks us for user/pass again. using tivo/<mak> again, the browser asks us if we want to download or play our new clip..



Following some of the other urls in the xml, we can get to a page that gives us all the info about a show, etc.

Who's gonna write the first linux client, hehe??


----------



## Danimal4326

rule42k states that u can convert the .tivo to a regular mpeg using TMGPEnc

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215842

Now we're getting somewhere...


----------



## Marc

Wow. They implemented an unsupported browser-oriented browser by going to https://ip-addr/ and giving the username and password that Danimal surmised.


----------



## gonzotek

That's excellent. In addition to providing size information, you can retrieve and parse all of that info and archive/publish/data mine it in all kinds of cool ways. I'm drooling with ideas just thinking about it


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by Marc _
> *Wow. They implemented an unsupported browser-oriented browser by going to https://ip-addr/ and giving the username and password that Danimal surmised. *


Ahh you're right. Didn't think of that.

Go to

https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html

using user: tivo
pass: <MAK>

It gives u a nice web interface to every show on your Tivo!!!!



Also, like your TiVo box, you can choose classic (sort by record time) or folders view.

At the bottom, there is a warning message



> This feature is not supported. The TiVo license agreement allows you to transfer content to up to ten devices within your household, but not outside your household. Unauthorized transfers or distribution of copyrighted works outside of your home may constitute a copyright infringement. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of this Agreement.


----------



## AllAboutJeeps

Also at the bottom it lets you switch between classic view and groups (folders). Fun...

...danny


----------



## pgrutherford

So does this mean anyone with a browser can download a show? If so, someone should let that the Apple-Heads know.


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by pgrutherford _
> *So does this mean anyone with a browser can download a show? If so, someone should let that the Apple-Heads know. *


Already did


----------



## simonalope

Just a note: on my computer, highlight-copy-paste'ing my MAK did not work. I had to type it in by hand to make this work.

Also, if you've read my recent post in this forum about copy protection, please note that the protected recordings still show up as such when I access via my browser.

Good work, Danimal!


----------



## AllAboutJeeps

Make sure you aren't copying any spaces or carriage returns. I cut and pasted mine out notepad just fine.

...danny


----------



## MickeS

That's a nice little feature!

/Mike


----------



## dkroboth

That's pretty cool. I wonder if there is anyway to get to the To-Do list or Season Passes.


----------



## MickeS

Do your channel logo pictures work? Mine have a "/" too many in their image source tag: it says "http://192.168.1.4//ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png" but should be "http://192.168.1.4/ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png".

/Mike


----------



## nickhull

I am getting kind of nervous with the hackability of TTG. It seems like with some fairly unsophisticated coding, you can access your TiVo from anywhere and download the content. After downloading you can rip, convert and burn with off the shelf tools.

I give it a week before there are some nice little utilities that allow sharing beyond your home network and out to the blue yonder....

I'm sure that this is not what TiVo intended, but who knows?

Who will bother with buying Sonic now that you can do all this for free?


----------



## jerrycurl

> _Originally posted by Danimal4326 _
> 
> 1. The tivo now runs a web server. Not sure if it did before, but if you go to
> <your tivo ip> it will display a nice web page telling you that you've set up your TiVo on the network properly.


Haven't received the Tivo2Go update yet and am unable to display information in a web browser - so it must mean that the http service is part of the upgrade.

Could this mean that they are close to doing what I suggested on the suggestion forum... letting us control our tasks via a browser instead of a clunky remote control.


----------



## dkroboth

The TiVo Video Details link seems to have schema info at the top, but I can't get any of these files to open

<TvBusMarshalledStruct:TvBusEnvelope xs:schemaLocation="http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvBusMarshalledStruct TvBusMarshalledStruct.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdRecording TvPgdRecording.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvBusDuration TvBusDuration.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdShowing TvPgdShowing.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbShowingBit TvDbShowingBit.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvBusDateTime TvBusDateTime.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdProgram TvPgdProgram.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbColorCode TvDbColorCode.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdSeries TvPgdSeries.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbShowType TvDbShowType.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdChannel TvPgdChannel.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbTvRating TvDbTvRating.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbRecordQuality TvDbRecordQuality.xsd" xs:type="TvPgdRecording:TvPgdRecording">


----------



## Danimal4326

dkroboth, I noticed too.. 

I guess thats why they say "this feature is not supported" hehe. I'm glad they put it in though..


----------



## MickeS

> I give it a week before there are some nice little utilities that allow sharing beyond your home network and out to the blue yonder....


There isn't a reasonably user-friendly method of copyprotection they could have used that would prevent this. I think it's great they provided a web-interface. And remember, the MAK is still needed.



> Who will bother with buying Sonic now that you can do all this for free?


Depending on price, the upcoming Sonic feature still seems like a good way to go, if it makes things easier (so far, the stuff mentioned here is a pretty clunky way of getting stuff onto a DVD).

/Mike


----------



## MighTiVo

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *Depending on price, the upcoming Sonic feature still seems like a good way to go, if it makes things easier (so far, the stuff mentioned here is a pretty clunky way of getting stuff onto a DVD).
> 
> /Mike *


How about $50?

http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=233

_Starting mid-January, a MyDVD Studio 6.1 free 15-day trial and complete product software download will be available to TiVo subscribers on www.tivo.com/togo. The complete product software download will be offered to TiVo subscribers at a discounted rate of $49.99 ($20 off MSRP). _


----------



## dualfragment

tag


----------



## MickeS

$50 would be worth it to me! Hopefully the trial version will be here soon, like they say.

/Mike


----------



## headroll

Any Mac users given this a go to see if they can access thier TiVos and get stuff without a Mac client?

Since the webserver runs on the TiVo, this seems like a valid way to access content with a Mac.

-Roll


----------



## ZildjianB

Wow, this is a great thread. I _*can't believe*_ TiVo activated a web server on its boxes in the 7.1 software... talk about making the boxes easy to hack! Not to mention the fact that TiVo has made it EASY for people to transfer their videos via the internet by opening the correct ports on their router and forwarding them to TiVo. (Yes, yes, I know... TiVo strongly discourages such things and considers doing so a violation of the TiVo license agreement but it is still worth discussing)



> This feature is not supported. The TiVo license agreement allows you to transfer content to up to ten devices within your household, but not outside your household. Unauthorized transfers or distribution of copyrighted works outside of your home *MAY* constitute a copyright infringement. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of this Agreement.


The word "may" above seems to suggest that TiVo's lawyers are not sure whether or not internet transfers would constitute a "copyright infringement," and I'm guessing that they will keep that opinion until the "copyright holders" start complaining about internet transfers and threatening legal action. So, if anyone attempts internet transfers they *may* be committing a "copyright infringement" and will *definitely* be violating the TiVo license agreement. But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?

It seems that TiVo--whether intentionally or not--has made internet transfers possible through a backdoor. Imagine the possibilities.... you are on vacation or on a business trip somewhere your favorite shows are not broadcasted.... you plug your notebook computer into your room's high-speed internet connection, open your favorite web browser, and connect to your TiVo's webserver via your home network's IP Address.... now you can download the episodes you missed and watch them later in the day. (Talk about pissing off your home ISP by using too much upstream bandwidth!)

Before the flaming starts, please don't think I'm suggesting or recommending that anyone go out and violate their TiVo license agreements, or (for that matter) risk committing a "copyright infringement." I'm just speculating about new possibilities and wondering why TiVo would allow such access. If 7.1 was rushed into service like many believe, then maybe this is one of many 'mistakes' we will find.... then again, maybe this was done on purpose (they certainly took time to write the above disclaimer).

WTG TiVo... this was a VERY "user friendly" thing to do.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

> _Originally posted by headroll _
> *Any Mac users given this a go to see if they can access thier TiVos and get stuff without a Mac client?
> 
> Since the webserver runs on the TiVo, this seems like a valid way to access content with a Mac.
> 
> -Roll *


Sounds like this will let Mac users transfer the files from Tivo to Mac, but what are they going to do with the files once they're on the Mac? AFAIK, the files are still encrypted, and the decrypting software is part of Tivo Desktop 2.0 (a DLL that acts as a filter for WMP), which of course doesn't work (yet) on a Mac.


----------



## MickeS

Except the ul-speeds in most cases would be abysmal from home (at least in most parts of the US), so it would take about 12 hours to transfer a medium quality one hour show.



> HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?


Internet transfers directly from the TiVo would still require the user to first connect to the TiVo webserver using the MAK, and then when viewing it would require both the MAK and the Tivo Desktop password. So it's not like TiVo can't check where the file came from, and it's not like they've given a "crack-free" way to watch the content.

/Mike


----------



## Marc

> _Originally posted by ZildjianB _
> *But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?*


At a minimum, the TiVo knows the source IP of the transfer request. It can easily determine whether it's on the local network or not. For all we know thus far, it could block connections that are from outside the local network.

And remember, too, that the IP address information is probably logged, so TiVo (the company) could get access to those diagnostic logs if needed.


----------



## davezatz

> _Originally posted by Marc _
> *At a minimum, the TiVo knows the source IP of the transfer request. It can easily determine whether it's on the local network or not. For all we know thus far, it could block connections that are from outside the local network.
> 
> And remember, too, that the IP address information is probably logged, so TiVo (the company) could get access to those diagnostic logs if needed. *


IF that is true...

VPN VPN VPN


----------



## MattElmore

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *IF that is true...
> 
> VPN VPN VPN
> 
> *


Or web proxy.


----------



## ZildjianB

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *IF that is true...
> 
> VPN VPN VPN
> 
> *


 LOL.... I agree, Dave, VPN is a solution. There are plenty of options. If TiVo has programmed some sort of "IP address blocker," it can be fooled. TiVo would know this... I think I'm still in awe that they opened up this can of worms by providing the web server access.

MickeS, I agree that TiVo would be able tell where any .tivo file came from due to the MAK. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about _distributing_ .tivo files over the internet, but just gaining access for your own files for personal use while not at home. As you said, anyone who has access to the files over the internet would still need the MAK to play them, and upload speeds would stink for most people.... but then again, upload speeds are only getting faster as time goes on.


----------



## morac

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *Do your channel logo pictures work? Mine have a "/" too many in their image source tag: it says "http://192.168.1.4//ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png" but should be "http://192.168.1.4/ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png".
> 
> /Mike *


Here's something I just threw together that should work around the problem you are seeing. It should work in Internet Explorer and Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape:


Code:


var imgList, imgURL, index;
if (document.all) imgList = document.all.tags("img");
else imgList = document.getElementsByTagName("img");
for (i=0; i<imgList.length; i++) { 
   imgURL = imgList[i].src;
   index = imgURL.indexOf("//ChannelLogo"); 
   if (index != -1) imgList[i].src = imgURL.substring(0,index) + imgURL.substring(index+1, imgURL.length); 
}

The above code will go through a web page and for every image that contains the text "//ChannelLogo" it will remove the first slash. I can't test it with the TiVo web page, but I tested it on another web page (changing the "//ChannelLogo" to something else) and it worked.

The code above isn't very helpful to fix the page though so what you have to do is create a bookmark, add it to your toolbar. Then open the attachment and copy the text into the bookmark's location.

Now whenever you see a page with this problem, just click the bookmark/favorite link and it should fix the broken images. Try it out and tell me if it works would you?

BTW, if anyone wants I can throw together a Firefox extension that automatically will do the above, but that seems kind of pointless.


----------



## davezatz

> _Originally posted by ZildjianB _
> *LOL.... I agree, Dave, VPN is a solution. There are plenty of options. If TiVo has programmed some sort of "IP address blocker," it can be fooled. TiVo would know this... I think I'm still in awe that they opened up this can of worms by providing the web server access. *


Yah, all kinds of IP spoofing, blocking, etc.

I'm wondering if Tivo assumes they are covering their butts with all the legalise, but meanwhile going with a cost-effective way of getting the video out. Tivo has always tried to straddle the fence of keeping the average Joe happy while keeping the big media conglomerates at bay. Such as the "secret" 30 second skip... though I'd prefer a commercial skip (also "secret") ala the older ReplayTVs.

It's also possible, they're still developing this thing and at some point it gets more locked down. They don't have to reinvent the DRM model for distributing video either, it already exists and is being implemented (MS, Real) such as MovieLink, CinemaNow, Starz, etc.

I'm waiting for confirmation that folks have been able to play video files on a system (Mac, PC, Unix, whatever) that does not have the Tivo Desktop.


----------



## ZildjianB

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *Yah, all kinds of IP spoofing, blocking, etc.
> 
> I'm wondering if Tivo assumes they are covering their butts with all the legalise, but meanwhile going with a cost-effective way of getting the video out. Tivo has always tried to straddle the fence of keeping the average Joe happy while keeping the big media conglomerates at bay. Such as the "secret" 30 second skip... though I'd prefer a commercial skip (also "secret") ala the older ReplayTVs.
> 
> It's also possible, they're still developing this thing and at some point it gets more locked down. They don't have to reinvent the DRM model for distributing video either, it already exists and is being implemented (MS, Real) such as MovieLink, CinemaNow, Starz, etc.
> 
> I'm waiting for confirmation that folks have been able to play video files on a system (Mac, PC, Unix, whatever) that does not have the Tivo Desktop. *


 I was thinking exactly the same thing.... it seems like TiVo is trying to keep the average Joe happy... why else would they take the time to add the disclaimer? They were covering their butts b/c they knew someone would gain access to the webserver sooner or later (but probably not this soon!). At this rate I don't think it will be long before someone starts to develop a cross-platform application to help linux & mac users extract video from their TiVos. If the video files are just password protected MPEG2 files (which rule42k's thread on the TMPGEnc conversion seems to suggest), then I don't think anyone will have a problem viewing the file once they find a way to decode it.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by headroll _
> *Any Mac users given this a go to see if they can access thier TiVos and get stuff without a Mac client?
> 
> Since the webserver runs on the TiVo, this seems like a valid way to access content with a Mac.
> 
> -Roll *


yes but you still need a directshow filter (only available on windows as far as I know) to actually decrvpt the files and play them. Not to mention the things TiVo desktop installs like tivodirectshowfilter.dll and reg keys. So getting the file to the mac is still the easy part

playing the file or doing anything else with it is a different story


----------



## MickeS

> I'm not talking about distributing .tivo files over the internet, but just gaining access for your own files for personal use while not at home.


Gotcha. I agree that this is very useful for that!

/Mike


----------



## ZildjianB

Question for those of you that have 7.1 and have been able to use the built-in TiVo Webserver-

Once you have downloaded a .tivo video file directly from the TiVo Webserver are you prompted for any passwords when attempting to play it (outside of TiVo Desktop)?

Also, do you have to convert it to MPEG2 before attempting to play it outside of TiVo Desktop?


----------



## Zaxxon

> _Originally posted by ZildjianB _
> *Once you have downloaded a .tivo video file directly from the TiVo Webserver are you prompted for any passwords when attempting to play it (outside of TiVo Desktop)?
> 
> Also, do you have to convert it to MPEG2 before attempting to play it outside of TiVo Desktop? *


That's the $1,000,000 question. People seem to be suggesting that the web server is actually giving access the media-key protected MPEG2 files, and that the TivoDesktop software actually does the conversion to .tivo. Thus, if you're just pulling from the server, no conversion would be necessary--just entering the media access key. Can anyone confirm or deny?


----------



## MickeS

Deny. It plays the same whether you pull it via webserver or Tivo Desktop. It just doesn't have the show info tacked on in the beginning, and a different file name.

/Mike


----------



## davezatz

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *Deny. It plays the same whether you pull it via webserver or Tivo Desktop. It just doesn't have the show info tacked on in the beginning, and a different file name. *


Can you play it on a system that does NOT have/use the Tivo Desktop software?


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *Is the Tivo running it's own stuff, or is it just Apache? I wonder if we can go in an tweak it...
> 
> Has anyone tried FTP-ing into the Tivo to see if you can grab multiple shows simultaniously? Or add our own ReturnToTivo feature... Is this port open and does the MAK allow you to login?
> 
> The fact that everything is exposed definitely means we can whip up some functionality pretty quickly. We should port the functionality of the ReplayTV DVarchive sw.
> 
> And by 'we' I mean someone other than me.   *


The Tivo is running some sort of web server. I don't think its Apache.. I may be wrong though.

I tried to FTP into it, and nothing. I'll have to try a port scan and see if anything else is open.


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *Except the ul-speeds in most cases would be abysmal from home (at least in most parts of the US), so it would take about 12 hours to transfer a medium quality one hour show.
> 
> Internet transfers directly from the TiVo would still require the user to first connect to the TiVo webserver using the MAK, and then when viewing it would require both the MAK and the Tivo Desktop password. So it's not like TiVo can't check where the file came from, and it's not like they've given a "crack-free" way to watch the content.
> 
> /Mike *


Actually, there is a way to view the content. Just convert it with TMPGEnc 

Actually, I tried Nero Recode last night and was able to edit the .tivo file without converting it first. So u can use nero to edit out commercials, re-code, and burn to dvd/cd at the same time..


----------



## gonzotek

Did a scan of ports 1-8000, only 80, 443, 2190, and 2191 show up. I'm VNC'ing from work to my network at home, and I don't feel like scanning all the higher ports, are there any specifc ports above 8000 that might be interesting?


----------



## Zaxxon

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *Deny. It plays the same whether you pull it via webserver or Tivo Desktop. It just doesn't have the show info tacked on in the beginning, and a different file name.
> 
> /Mike *


So the files are actually stored on the web server as .tivo?


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by Zaxxon _
> *That's the $1,000,000 question. People seem to be suggesting that the web server is actually giving access the media-key protected MPEG2 files, and that the TivoDesktop software actually does the conversion to .tivo. Thus, if you're just pulling from the server, no conversion would be necessary--just entering the media access key. Can anyone confirm or deny? *


No. The files are encoded by the TiVo box. The Tivo desktop software just pulls the files from the Tivo the same way the web-based method does.

You need the desktop software installed so that the DirectShow filter gets installed. You can just double click the .tivo file from windows explorer, and when media player comes up, it will ask you for your password , then play the file.


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *Can you play it on a system that does NOT have/use the Tivo Desktop software? *


No, not unles you re-code it with TMPGEnc or other software (Nero Recode works too )


----------



## bkdelong

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> *That's excellent. In addition to providing size information, you can retrieve and parse all of that info and archive/publish/data mine it in all kinds of cool ways. I'm drooling with ideas just thinking about it  *


Mmmmm. TivoScrobbler anyone? ONR - The Open Nielsen Ratings?


----------



## MickeS

> Actually, there is a way to view the content. Just convert it with TMPGEnc


You still have to supply the password, and the Tivo Desktop software still has to be installed so the MAK is there. So a transfer directly from Tivo webserver to a non-Tivo Desktop computer would not work unless it's cracked in some way.

And the file does "play" on a computer without Tivo Desktop... it just looks like garbagee because it's scrambled.


----------



## bkdelong

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *You still have to supply the password, and the Tivo Desktop software still has to be installed so the MAK is there. So a transfer directly from Tivo webserver to a non-Tivo Desktop computer would not work unless it's cracked in some way.
> 
> And the file does "play" on a computer without Tivo Desktop... it just looks like garbagee because it's scrambled.  *


In the first paragraph of the first post, it says the MAK is the password for the Tivo webserver. Since you setup a viewing password in Tivo Desktop, I'm guessing that's where the only place you have to enter a PW for viewing.


----------



## MickeS

Nope. You have to enter the Tivo Desktop password every time you want to watch or convert a transfered show. Not to be confused with the Tivo webserver password, which is the MAK.

/Mike


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## ZildjianB

Mike & others, let me know if I am beginning to think of this the right way.

As I understand it (and keep in mind, I'm still learning, so someone correct me if I'm still wrong) the MAK is used for access to the .tivo files on the TiVo so they can be transferred to your computer either via TiVo Desktop or the TiVo Webserver. However, once you get the files onto your computer they are still scrambled, which is where the "playback" password comes in. The "playback" password is used to fetch a MS DirectShow filter, which is installed with TiVo Desktop, which is then used with the MAK to descramble a .tivo file for playback/conversion.


----------



## MichaelK

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> *Did a scan of ports 1-8000, only 80, 443, 2190, and 2191 show up. I'm VNC'ing from work to my network at home, and I don't feel like scanning all the higher ports, are there any specifc ports above 8000 that might be interesting? *


i beleive 8080-8090 were/are used for hmo.

go a little higher....


----------



## chocthunder

I opened a port on my router and forwarded to my Tivo's IP address. I then gave my wife the WAN IP of our network to try to access remotely. She was able to get to the page that tells you you've successfully setup Tivo on your network, but could not access the recordings located at <ipaddress>/nowplaying/index.html

I wonder, if others have speculated, if there is some security around the IP address accessing this page. Anyone have some ideas for quick things to try to diagnose this?

I'd love to be able to access my files from work.


----------



## MickeS

Make sure she has *https://*<ipaddress>/nowplaying/index.html

ZildjianB: correct, as far as I know. If you don't access the TiVo webserver, the MAK is only entered once, when you install TiVo Desktop. If you access the webserver, it is used as a password when you access it (although you can let your browser store it and you only have to enter it once there too).

/Mike


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## ZeoTiVo

you need the HTTPS port to be forwarded as well probably according to what was in the OP here.


----------



## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by MichaelK _
> *i beleive 8080-8090 were/are used for hmo.
> 
> go a little higher.... *


 Nothing from 8000-10000. Ports 2190 and 2191 are the ports the TiVO uses for HMO connectivity. 8080 and 8090, I think, are the ports used by the PC side of HMO. I may also be mistaken.


----------



## davezatz

> _Originally posted by MickeS _
> *If you don't access the TiVo webserver, the MAK is only entered once, when you install TiVo Desktop. If you access the webserver, it is used as a password when you access it (although you can let your browser store it and you only have to enter it once there too) *


So the Tivo Desktop stores the MAK to allow it to access the web server. I don't get what purpose that Tivo Desktop password serves if the raw files can be converted and edited without it. I'm wondering if the Tivo Desktop 'locks' the file with the local password and then uses the password to unlock it... but if you bypass the Tivo Desktop at all, no password is needed to get at the file?


----------



## bkdelong

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *So the Tivo Desktop stores the MAK to allow it to access the web server. I don't get what purpose that Tivo Desktop password serves if the raw files can be converted and edited without it. I'm wondering if the Tivo Desktop 'locks' the file with the local password and then uses the password to unlock it... but if you bypass the Tivo Desktop at all, no password is needed to get at the file? *


Well, if TD 2.0 caches the MAK upon install, then there's no PW protection. So they offer a second solution for PW protection - something you can plausibly remember.


----------



## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by davezatz _
> *So the Tivo Desktop stores the MAK to allow it to access the web server. I don't get what purpose that Tivo Desktop password serves if the raw files can be converted and edited without it. I'm wondering if the Tivo Desktop 'locks' the file with the local password and then uses the password to unlock it... but if you bypass the Tivo Desktop at all, no password is needed to get at the file? *


 You can *get* the file from the web interface without the desktop password (using the MAK). But you need the Desktop software and the password to *play/edit/use* the file. The MAK will get you the file out of the tivo, but does not give you the ability to playback/edit the file.


----------



## bkdelong

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> *You can get the file from the web interface without the desktop password (using the MAK). But you need the Desktop software and the password to play/edit/use the file. The MAK will get you the file out of the tivo, but does not give you the ability to playback/edit the file. *


Hrm....has anyone actually tried to work with a Web-based file yet? Download it from ones tivo, open it with TMPGEnc, enter the MAK and view it? If Windows users can use VLC to view .tivo files, couldn't Mac users? Or is it the dreaded codec?

Does this mean the DirectShow encoding is happing on the Tivo prior to download?


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## jtbmoore

It seems like it is a matter of time before someone figures out how to turn this one way street into a two way street. Convert a mpeg to .tivo and drop it back on the Tivo. 

A guy can dream.


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## gonzotek

It doesn't matter how you download it, the file is encrypted on the tivo. With respect to the current situation, Directshow is just a chain of playback filters, the first one being the tivo desktop dll that does the decrypting. When you open a .tivo, the first filter in the chain will ask for your desktop password. When you correctly provide that, it decrypts the file and sends it to an mpeg decoder filter, which then sends it to a video out filter AND an audio out filter. The audio actually gets one more filter before being output, a "tivo audio boost" filter, in case the audio recordings aren't loud enough in general. There's a setting in the Tivo desktop software somewhere to set the default boost.

You can see this by opening a .tivo with graphedit


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## Crash331

i need to tag this


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## bkdelong

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> *It doesn't matter how you download it, the file is encrypted on the tivo. With respect to the current situation, Directshow is just a chain of playback filters, the first one being the tivo desktop dll that does the decrypting. When you open a .tivo, the first filter in the chain will ask for your desktop password. When you correctly provide that, it decrypts the file and sends it to an mpeg decoder filter, which then sends it to a video out filter AND an audio out filter. The audio actually gets one more filter before being output, a "tivo audio boost" filter, in case the audio recordings aren't loud enough in general. There's a setting in the Tivo desktop software somewhere to set the default boost. *


Encrypted with what? The MAK or the Tivo Desktop 2.0 viewing PW? What about shows recorded prior to 7.1? And if TD 2.0 isn't used....the Web interface is, how does it get decoded. Does it? or is the TD 2.0 application the only thing that decodes?


----------



## gonzotek

It's encrypted on the TiVo, presumably with the MAK. It's decrypted on the PC by providing the password. Shows recorded prior to 7.1 are encrypted. You MUST have Tivo Desktop installed and provided with the MAK and your chosen password to decrypt. If you download via the web interface, the file will arrive in THE SAME condition as if you had initiated the transfer in Tivo Desktop. Once you open the file, you will be presented with the password dialog if you have the Tivo Desktop software installed. If you do not, you will not be able to decrypt the file and therefore not be able to play it. Having the tivo desktop software installed is the only (known) way to decrypt a file, no matter how it was obtained. And it will only decrypt files created with a MAK matching the one it is provided when it is installed(ie. only your MAK). In other words, if you don't have TiVo Desktop 2.0 installed you will NOT be able to decrypt the files, nor will your copy of Tivo Desktop decrypt my files if you browse to my TiVo web page over the internet or I email one to you.


----------



## Danimal4326

> _Originally posted by bkdelong _
> *Encrypted with what? The MAK or the Tivo Desktop 2.0 viewing PW? What about shows recorded prior to 7.1? And if TD 2.0 isn't used....the Web interface is, how does it get decoded. Does it? or is the TD 2.0 application the only thing that decodes? *


Encrypted with the MAK.. on your Tivo Box.. It doesnt matter if you recorded the show before OR after getting 7.1 All shows will be encrypted using the MAK.

When you install Tivo desktop, it installs severall dlls which are DirectShow filters. one of these de-crypts the tivo files. It asks you for a password, which is used to pull the MAK either out of the registry somewhere or some file on your computer. The password gets the MAK to the directshow filter, which then uses the MAK to de-crypt the .tivo file.

Once you get it to your computer, be it using Tivo Desktop or the Web interface, you will need to have the tivo direct show filter installed, and windows media player or TMPGEnc or Nero, etc will ask for your password that you created with Tivo Desktop.

I think they used the password so that the users wouldnt have to remember their MAK. Providing the correct password provides the MAK to the filter allowing it to de-crypt the .tivo file and passing it on the the rest of the filters (MPEG-2, audio, etc )


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## ManateeMan

Here is the interesting version information when using nikto on my Series 2:

Server: tivo-httpd-1:7.1.P3-01-2:240
tivo - TiVo Calypso Server allows Tiva DVRs to talk to computers to download mp3 and jpg data via an HTTP web server on port 8101.


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## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by Danimal4326 _
> *Encrypted with the MAK.. on your Tivo Box.. It doesnt matter if you recorded the show before OR after getting 7.1 All shows will be encrypted using the MAK.
> 
> When you install Tivo desktop, it installs severall dlls which are DirectShow filters. one of these de-crypts the tivo files. It asks you for a password, which is used to pull the MAK either out of the registry somewhere or some file on your computer. The password gets the MAK to the directshow filter, which then uses the MAK to de-crypt the .tivo file.
> 
> Once you get it to your computer, be it using Tivo Desktop or the Web interface, you will need to have the tivo direct show filter installed, and windows media player or TMPGEnc or Nero, etc will ask for your password that you created with Tivo Desktop.
> 
> I think they used the password so that the users wouldnt have to remember their MAK. Providing the correct password provides the MAK to the filter allowing it to de-crypt the .tivo file and passing it on the the rest of the filters (MPEG-2, audio, etc ) *


 That is my understanding of the system, and described better than I did.


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## mcarleton2000

I have two TiVos at my house. Is there one MAK per TiVo or one MAK per
TiVo account?


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## vikrampant

> _Originally posted by mcarleton2000 _
> *I have two TiVos at my house. Is there one MAK per TiVo or one MAK per
> TiVo account? *


One MAK per TiVo account


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## BiloxiGeek

There seems to be a flaw in that. Say I have a show that was recorded over a year ago. Wouldn't that have been prior to Tivo implementing the Media Access Key, so how is that show encrypted with the MAK?

Do all Tivo's encrypt with the MAK and it's only now with the TivoToGo hitting the streets that we get to see what our MAK is set to and have a reason to see the MAK?



> _Originally posted by Danimal4326 _
> *Encrypted with the MAK.. on your Tivo Box.. It doesnt matter if you recorded the show before OR after getting 7.1 All shows will be encrypted using the MAK.
> *


----------



## ZildjianB

> _Originally posted by BiloxiGeek _
> *There seems to be a flaw in that. Say I have a show that was recorded over a year ago. Wouldn't that have been prior to Tivo implementing the Media Access Key, so how is that show encrypted with the MAK?
> 
> Do all Tivo's encrypt with the MAK and it's only now with the TivoToGo hitting the streets that we get to see what our MAK is set to and have a reason to see the MAK? *


 My guess is that the MAK was added to old recordings during the software upgrade process. Either that, or it has always been there but was hidden until now.


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## jmemmott

All Series 2 Tivo's encrypt the programs they record and always have done so. All of the evidence I have would indicate that the MAK either is the decryption key that the Tivo's on your account use or is a scrambled variation of it. That doesn't mean that you will be able to decrypt .tivo files without the help of the Tivo software or that you will be able to create these files from your own source material: we do not know the encrytption algorythm and it may be illegal to reverse engineer it (IANAL).


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## Marc

It's also possible that the MAK permits the TiVo software on the PC to decode the scrambling key that is stashed in the file itself. Isn't this how DVDs are done?


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## jmemmott

Exactly.

That is the unknown algorythm problem. Do you start by directly decrypting stream data using the MAK or do you use the MAK to extract header information that allows you to start decrypting stream data or ... ???


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> *It doesn't matter how you download it, the file is encrypted on the tivo. With respect to the current situation, Directshow is just a chain of playback filters, the first one being the tivo desktop dll that does the decrypting. When you open a .tivo, the first filter in the chain will ask for your desktop password. When you correctly provide that, it decrypts the file and sends it to an mpeg decoder filter, which then sends it to a video out filter AND an audio out filter. The audio actually gets one more filter before being output, a "tivo audio boost" filter, in case the audio recordings aren't loud enough in general. There's a setting in the Tivo desktop software somewhere to set the default boost.
> 
> You can see this by opening a .tivo with graphedit *


 four days aftetr release , 3 to go


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## ABQ Jon

All of this nifty XML stuff, coupled with Bill Gates's announcement about the TiVo/MS partnership, makes me wonder whether 7.1 includes support for Universal Plug & Play. If so, it might point to a way to send video files to the TiVo. M$ already has Windows Media Connect out there, and it's not like it would be hard to convert files to MPEG-2 and upload them...

Has anyone out there with 7.1 tried enabling UPnP on their PC and seeing what happens?


----------



## jsmmd

> _Originally posted by ZildjianB _
> ...
> 
> The word "may" above seems to suggest that TiVo's lawyers are not sure whether or not internet transfers would constitute a "copyright infringement," and I'm guessing that they will keep that opinion until the "copyright holders" start complaining about internet transfers and threatening legal action. So, if anyone attempts internet transfers they *may* be committing a "copyright infringement" and will *definitely* be violating the TiVo license agreement. But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?
> 
> It seems that TiVo--whether intentionally or not--has made internet transfers possible through a backdoor. Imagine the possibilities.... you are on vacation or on a business trip somewhere your favorite shows are not broadcasted.... you plug your notebook computer into your room's high-speed internet connection, open your favorite web browser, and connect to your TiVo's webserver via your home network's IP Address.... now you can download the episodes you missed and watch them later in the day. (Talk about pissing off your home ISP by using too much upstream bandwidth!)
> 
> Before the flaming starts, please don't think I'm suggesting or recommending that anyone go out and violate their TiVo license agreements, or (for that matter) risk committing a "copyright infringement." I'm just speculating about new possibilities and wondering why TiVo would allow such access. If 7.1 was rushed into service like many believe, then maybe this is one of many 'mistakes' we will find.... then again, maybe this was done on purpose (they certainly took time to write the above disclaimer).
> 
> WTG TiVo... this was a VERY "user friendly" thing to do.


The existance of the server, while a little suprising based off the press release, it really shouldn't be.

Remeber this little press release, and yes, I know companies make promises every day that they don't get around to keeping.



> Thu, Aug. 05, 2004
> 
> FCC Approves New TiVo Technology Feature
> 
> "The new technology, which TiVo refers to as "remote access," could be included in a service called TiVoToGo that the company plans to offer this fall. "...
> 
> "The technology would allow a TiVo subscriber to download broadcasts to a computer and send copies of recorded shows over the Internet to an office or home or to a small circle of friends, as long as they are on the subscriber's registered account."
> 
> check out online


*Boo!, where's my circle of trust, I mean friends...*  lol

...


----------



## alansh

My guess is that the an id is embedded in the recording. If a recording shows up on some server or Bittorrent, they can use that to trace the recording back to the original recorder. If you're not sharing the recording with the general public, there's really no way for them to know.


----------



## samkuhn

> My guess is that the an id is embedded in the recording.


I wonder too if there is a watermark of some kind containing the MAK in transfered video. I think to do effective watermarking (e.g. that would survive transcoding) would require a dedicated processor, or a lot more time than what the tivo is using the transfer the recording now.

If the files are tagged or marked, I would guess that the tag/mark will be removed during transcoding.


----------



## entrager2

> I wonder too if there is a watermark of some kind containing the MAK in transfered video. I think to do effective watermarking (e.g. that would survive transcoding) would require a dedicated processor, or a lot more time than what the tivo is using the transfer the recording now.


I would assume that there has got to be some kind of watermark if they want to make content providers happy. Otherwise anyone could transfer recordings from the TiVo, legitimately burn them to DVD, then rip the mpeg2 off the DVD and distribute it. (I know, you can just use TMPEGEnc to translate a .tivo in to an mpeg2 directly, but I'm talking about doing it with tools TiVo provides.)

Watermarking really is a very cheap algorithm, all it requires is slightly shifting a few numbers here and there. In fact, with an mpeg stream all kinds of data can be hidden in the stream with nearly no overhead and no noticable difference in video quality.

Of course, this only works if the mpeg that you get from the process above (either of them) is truely the exact same mpeg as the original, but with the TiVo-specific encryption removed. If there is any re-encoding occuring at any step, them any watermark would be mangled beyond recognition.

Despite how easy it would be, I doubt they actually do it. They (and content providers) realize that if someone wants to pirate something, they will. TiVo just wants to make the process of doing it harder that it's worth. Tell me, what's simpler: 1) Recording something with your TiVo, transfering it to your computer, re-encoding it to remove TiVo encryption, and then distributing it, or 2) Use a (cheaper) capture card on your PC to record the content and put it up as is? My guess is that they perceive no threat since there is a MUCH simpler solution out there.


----------



## entrager2

I just realized that in one posting I both said that there probably is a watermark and that there probably isn't. I stand by the second assumption, I doubt they watermark because there's no reason to. If a pirate wanted to distribute content, they wouldn't go through the hassle of doing it with a TiVo.


----------



## jtbmoore

I am a little confuse on why all this is necassary. I just watched the CES Bill Gates keynote and M$ media edition does everything Tivo2Go does with out all of these hassles. If Tivo is so worried about copyright why isn't M$.


----------



## rhobite

> _Originally posted by Marc _
> *At a minimum, the TiVo knows the source IP of the transfer request. It can easily determine whether it's on the local network or not. For all we know thus far, it could block connections that are from outside the local network.
> 
> And remember, too, that the IP address information is probably logged, so TiVo (the company) could get access to those diagnostic logs if needed. *


If they do that, they're going to lose me as a customer.


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## samkuhn

> I am a little confuse on why all this is necassary. I just watched the CES Bill Gates keynote and M$ media edition does everything Tivo2Go does with out all of these hassles. If Tivo is so worried about copyright why isn't M$.


You can guess that the MS stuff will obey the DRM restrictions available. There will inevitably be limits on what can be transfered and how many times it be transfered. I'm sure Gates didn't mention in or highlight it since the only people that want that "feature" are the content providers. Joe Average just wants to watch NFL on his PDA.


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

Can someone post screen shots?


----------



## ZildjianB

I did a search for 'tivo' in my Win XP SP2 registry tonight to see if I could tell what TiVo Desktop 2.0 was doing on my system. It added loads of stuff to the registry. Here are a few of the more interesting additions-



> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\Desktop\Server\RestrictAccess = 0
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\Desktop\Transfer\HttpPort = 8101
> 
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\SharingKeys\TiVoToGo Media = These 3 Values were identical in my registry
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\SharingKeys\TiVoToGo Metadata = These 3 Values were identical in my registry
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\SharingKeys\TivoToGo Transfer = These 3 Values were identical in my registry
> 
> Several Registry entries pointed to this .dll file:
> C:\Program Files\Common Files\TiVo Shared\DirectShow\TiVoDirectShowFilter.dll
> This file seems to contain the resources for the 'Enter Playback Password' dialog box, including error messages if the wrong password is entered.
> 
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{A65FA79B-2D2C-42BD-BAB2-D474B8F01248}\(Default) = 'Tivo DirectShow Source Filter'
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{083863F1-70DE-11d0-BD40-00A0C911CE86}\Instance\{A65FA79B-2D2C-42BD-BAB2-D474B8F01248}\FilterData = REG_BINARY DATA
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{083863F1-70DE-11d0-BD40-00A0C911CE86}\Instance\{A65FA79B-2D2C-42BD-BAB2-D474B8F01248}\FriendlyName = 'Tivo DirectShow Source Filter'
> Note: There are several instances similar to the one above.
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Player\Extensions\Descriptions\9 = MPEG-4/3GP File (*.mp4;*.3gp;*.m4a)
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Player\Extensions\MUIDescriptions\9 = Tivo video file
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Player\Extensions\Types\9 = *.Tivo


I can on speculate as to what some of this stuff means. Basically, I'm just making the info available for anyone interested.


----------



## thecapitalizt

Looks like its just saying "use this .dll when you encounter the filetype .tivo". I believe that .dll's are binaries (meaning you can't look at whats inside them to reverse-engineer the encryption protocol).

I'm so pissed now that the box that I have sitting upstairs has an odd mobo that wont run winxp or win2k for more than 5 minutes without bluescreening. grrr....

I can't wait for a mac version, or better yet, for dvdjon to come to our rescue!


----------



## jerrycurl

> _Originally posted by chocthunder _
> *I opened a port on my router and forwarded to my Tivo's IP address. I then gave my wife the WAN IP of our network to try to access remotely. She was able to get to the page that tells you you've successfully setup Tivo on your network, but could not access the recordings located at <ipaddress>/nowplaying/index.html
> 
> I wonder, if others have speculated, if there is some security around the IP address accessing this page. Anyone have some ideas for quick things to try to diagnose this?
> 
> I'd love to be able to access my files from work. *


I'm speculating that this is due to it running over a secure connection. You need to ensure that your router is open for port 443 which is the typical SSL port I believe.


----------



## TK421

> _Originally posted by jerrycurl _
> *I'm speculating that this is due to it running over a secure connection. You need to ensure that your router is open for port 443 which is the typical SSL port I believe. *


Yup, definitely need 443 and 80 open. Ironically, I can the Now Playing page, which is over 443, but not transfer a show because my ISP blocks 80 incoming.

Edit for grammar


----------



## Joe Smith

> _Originally posted by simonalope _
> *Just a note: on my computer, highlight-copy-paste'ing my MAK did not work. I had to type it in by hand to make this work.
> *


I've noticed this sort of failure when doing highlight-copy-paste on *bold text*.


----------



## AbMagFab

Why couldn't I play someone else's .tivo file if I just entered their MAK into Desktop 2.0, or when opening up the .tivo file directly?

What prevents a napster-like distribution of .tivo files, just renamed with the MAK in there (e.g. seinfeld-101-[MAK].tivo)?


----------



## Uniden900

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Why couldn't I play someone else's .tivo file if I just entered their MAK into Desktop 2.0, or when opening up the .tivo file directly?
> 
> What prevents a napster-like distribution of .tivo files, just renamed with the MAK in there (e.g. seinfeld-101-[MAK].tivo)? *


I doubt Tivo would care, but persay you made that NFL superbowl recording and post it on a P2P network where the whole world wants to see "wardrobe malfunction II." The whole world downloads your copy. NFL gets grumpy and traces the culprit with the supplied MAK through subpeonas<sp?>. NFL then takes your TIVO away and you pine away the rest of your life.

Exagerated of course, but it'll make people think twice before sharing their MAK.


----------



## inio

https uses SSL, which requires a certificate, which has to be signed by an authority and match the host using it.

So I ask: what are the specifics of the certificate that your TiVo is using for https (hash, valid dates, signing authority, etc)? The usefulness of https would be questionable if all TiVos use the same certificate. On the other hand if the certificates are unique it would be interesting to know what the signing authority is as that's a LOT of unique certificates to be generating. In either case it's interesting that they've gotten a certificate that somehow works with the TiVo's IP address, no matter what it is.


----------



## Pittsburgh_Chris

In Linux (or any OS), you can generate a self-signed certificate that does not necessarily need a known signing authority (the authority would end up being the Tivo itself). When you connect to the Tivo, it may warn you about the certificate. Danimal's post even says he installed the cert.

Anyway, it's pretty easy to do.


----------



## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by Pittsburgh_Chris _
> *In Linux (or any OS), you can generate a self-signed certificate that does not necessarily need a known signing authority (the authority would end up being the Tivo itself). When you connect to the Tivo, it may warn you about the certificate. Danimal's post even says he installed the cert.
> 
> Anyway, it's pretty easy to do. *


 Yeah it's a self-signed cert. It's "issued by" info provides my TSN as the Common Name (CN) and Tivo, Inc. as the Organization (0). It's valid until 2015 

I'm gonna assume that the hash's are unique and therefore not intersting at this point.


----------



## LordKronos

> _Originally posted by jtbmoore _
> *If Tivo is so worried about copyright why isn't M$. *


because if the media companies come after microsoft, they have a crapload of money to just laugh in their faces, drag the thing through court for several years, pay a fine/settlement at the end, and by that time Microsoft will be onto something bigger and won't really even care if they end up with a judgement against them saying they can't do this or that.

TiVo can't really say the same thing.


----------



## kdustin

I go to the pages recommended by Tivo and I see codecs you need to purchase. Does anyone have a free one that has worked with this TTG?

Thanks!


----------



## MickeS

the K-Lite Codec Pack worked for me. Don't have a link, search on google.

/Mike


----------



## Gregor

> _Originally posted by Uniden900 _
> *I doubt Tivo would care, but persay you made that NFL superbowl recording and post it on a P2P network where the whole world wants to see "wardrobe malfunction II." The whole world downloads your copy. NFL gets grumpy and traces the culprit with the supplied MAK through subpeonas<sp?>. NFL then takes your TIVO away and you pine away the rest of your life.
> 
> Exagerated of course, but it'll make people think twice before sharing their MAK. *


Someone will end up being made an example of, I would bet.


----------



## maggard

Then tough nuts to the NFL.

Seriously.

Broadcasting over the public airwaves is a privilege, not a right. Through the FCC our airwaves are licensed for use to media companies to further the public good. Neither the NFL nor anyone else has any 'right' to take offense at a recording of their freely broadcast signal being reproduced or distributed for non-commercial use. 

If the source were, say, ESPN, a cable channel that is not freely broadcast then yes, there would be some cause for concern. But something broadcast? Then you've got the exact same rights your cable or sat. company has to the (re)transmission. share your recordings of Gilligan's Island, Chasing Amy, whatever.

Nothing from DVD, or HBO, but ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/WB/m-o-u-s-e - sure.


----------



## dotorg

> _Originally posted by maggard _
> *
> If the source were, say, ESPN, a cable channel that is not freely broadcast then yes, there would be some cause for concern. But something broadcast? Then you've got the exact same rights your cable or sat. company has to the (re)transmission. share your recordings of Gilligan's Island, Chasing Amy, whatever.*


You do realize that the cable and sat companies don't have any right to do that, right? They have to have an agreement in place with that channel?

And you realize, as well, that you have no right to redistribute anything you record OTA, as well?

You have limited rights to time shift material. Thats about it.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Why couldn't I play someone else's .tivo file if I just entered their MAK into Desktop 2.0, or when opening up the .tivo file directly?
> 
> What prevents a napster-like distribution of .tivo files, just renamed with the MAK in there (e.g. seinfeld-101-[MAK].tivo)? *


the MAK is keyed to your account. The Terms of service clearly state you can not share files. TiVo can terminate your TiVo account and your TiVos turn to boat anchors with no more recordings able to be made and shared.


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## justmike

How about some screen shots of the web server side of this for those of us with the DVD that will probably not see it otherwise till later this year 

Mike


----------



## captain_video

I find this thread totally amazing and completely comical at the same time. You guys are going gaga over a feature that Tivo is implementing (TivoToGo) that is essentially a variation of a hack that was developed some time ago over at the No. 1 Tivo hacking site (hint: it ain't here). You know, the forum the mods don't want you to know about? Ooops, I forgot, the TCF forum software censors any mention of that site since they want to keep you in the dark. Actually, they are paranoid that such hacking talk with Tivo listening in may cause them too much grief so they just don't want you to know about it simply to cover their collective a$$e$.

I'm shocked because the mention of video extraction and burning Tivo videos to DVD seems to have become an acceptable topic all of a sudden. Merely implying you were thinking of extracting or copying Tivo videos would get you in deep doodoo in the past. Been doing that for about 3-1/2 years now, primarily as an extension to timeshifting and not for distribution, in case anyone's interested.

FYI - all Tivos, with the exception of the series 1 SA models, encrypt the video while its being recorded. Some sort of method has to be implemented to deactivate the encryption process before you can use the mpeg files outside of a Tivo with anything other than the TivoToGo software. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Someone indicated that it would be a great idea to be able to extract the video to your PC and then return it to the Tivo. Old news guys. Been done for quite a while now. HMO for DirecTivos is also a reality but you won't be able to get it from DTV or Tivo.

BTW, using TMPGEnc for muxing the ty files (that's what they're called) is a hit or miss proposition at best and can cause audio sync issues with some recordings. There are far better apps for working with ty files. I won't divulge all the good stuff since the mods will most likely delete it anyway. In fact, I'll be surprised if this post is still here in 24 hours so read it quickly.


----------



## ytytyt

Yes, the Mods are suddenly very silent on the subject.

Wonder when TiVo Inc. will remind them that the only acceptable burning method is via their propiterial codec, and all disscusions of "other" methods are banned..


Hi CV


----------



## mcomer

> _Originally posted by captain_video _
> *I'm shocked because the mention of video extraction and burning Tivo videos to DVD seems to have become an acceptable topic all of a sudden. Merely implying you were thinking of extracting or copying Tivo videos would get you in deep doodoo in the past.*


LMFAO

Hey, I bet I know where they can get a "deal" on some great filtering software to get rid of all this usefull information. There's a huge database of deals around somewhere, I heard.

Matt


----------



## Jeanesco

> _Originally posted by captain_video _
> *I find this thread totally amazing and completely comical at the same time. You guys are going gaga over a feature that Tivo is implementing (TivoToGo) that is essentially a variation of a hack that was developed some time ago over at the No. 1 Tivo hacking site (hint: it ain't here).*


What are you talking about? TivoToGo isn't at all similar to what is on the other forum. With TivoToGo you get some kick ass DRM restrictions and uber cool bandwidth bottlenecks. Want to know the best part? They are free!


----------



## EwanG

Having read all this, I'm tempted to write a very public letter thanking the great folks at TiVO for providing this functionality.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I run Linux at home. I had been fretting that the only way I was going to be able to enjoy TTG was to do a mass conversion of our home computers back to Windows, and then all sorts of other work to avoid spending a lot of additional money networking stuff around the house to be able to serve up the content.

However, knowing that I can at least pull the shows off with my Linux box now, I can take the money I was going to spend on Windows licenses, go to Weaknees, and purchase their mondo TiVO, pay for a lifetime membership, and have everything I need by connecting a couple cables and a wireless adapter.

I have to think the second option is also more in TiVOs favor since spending my money on MS products is not as profitable to TiVO  

That said, I would assume that since I'm an authorized TiVO user (lifetime membership on my existing TiVO) that I can DL the desktop software, grab the codec files (similar to what one does for MPlayer) and then do anything else I reasonably need to do to view on my Linux box.

What I am actually more interested in, is how to make my home movies into .tivo files, and then push them to one or the other TiVO to watch. Has anyone found a way to do that yet with this new option?

Thanks,
Ewan


----------



## swyatt

> _Originally posted by EwanG _
> *
> 
> I have to think the second option is also more in TiVOs favor since spending my money on MS products is not as profitable to TiVO
> *


Interesting way of looking at things. But I personally make my purchases based on what is good for me, not some company that doesn't know me from Adam.


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## captain_video

> What I am actually more interested in, is how to make my home movies into .tivo files, and then push them to one or the other TiVO to watch. Has anyone found a way to do that yet with this new option?


Don't know about doing it with the "new option" but you may want to do a google search for "ele2pestriple" (without the quotes). As I said previously, this stuff is old hat to the Tivo hacking community.


----------



## AllAboutJeeps

> _Originally posted by Jeanesco _
> *... uber cool bandwidth bottlenecks. Want to know the best part? They are free! *


Speaking of bandwidth bottlenecks, using TTG's web interface, I am downloading a show by right-click -> save as and only getting 589-616KB/sec! Pathetic! This is over a wired 100Mbps switch home network. I get better performance downloading software from asian countries through my cable modem...

...danny


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## jmemmott

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said previously, this stuff is old hat to the Tivo hacking community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact that extraction and insertion has been possible for some time has not been much of a secret. However, even the enthusiasts of the other site are quick to point out the difference of their goals. They are, in their own words, a hobbyist site, interested in how the Tivo ticks not an end-user site interested in the needs of the general public. If the goal was solely to extract video, then the combination Tivo/DVD burners that have been on the market for some time are actually superior to either of these other solutions. 

Personally, I do not want to have to try to solder Prom sockets onto the Tivo mother board or protect my system from a feature update so I can protect the investment of my time used in hacking a kernel that is two years out of date. I want something that Tivo is willing to bless so that I can move forward with the features I want and still use my time for something that is more interesting to me.

That doesnt that mean the other site has the wrong approach  just one that doesnt appeal to me. I waited for Tivo because on balance it is a better solution for me.


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by jmemmott _
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> As I said previously, this stuff is old hat to the Tivo hacking community.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The fact that extraction and insertion has been possible for some time has not been much of a secret. However, even the enthusiasts of the other site are quick to point out the difference of their goals. They are, in their own words, a hobbyist site, interested in how the Tivo ticks not an end-user site interested in the needs of the general public. If the goal was solely to extract video, then the combination Tivo/DVD burners that have been on the market for some time are actually superior to either of these other solutions.
> 
> Personally, I do not want to have to try to solder Prom sockets onto the Tivo mother board or protect my system from a feature update so I can protect the investment of my time used in hacking a kernel that is two years out of date. I want something that Tivo is willing to bless so that I can move forward with the features I want and still use my time for something that is more interesting to me.
> 
> That doesnt that mean the other site has the wrong approach  just one that doesnt appeal to me. I waited for Tivo because on balance it is a better solution for me. *


Nicely said and I second it. Go to that forum and you will not find an easy follow this and install this and done. There a lot of smart people over there doing cool things but it is not for the avreage user and takes an investment in time up front and then when any new updates come down. 
With TTG I can pull files off and do what I want with them from there. Thanks for the tip on ty files - if you wnat to be helpful instead of just sending us a l33t nyah nyah you could give more info on what tools work best with the TiVo mpeg format.


----------



## Linus T.

> _Originally posted by jmemmott _
> *Personally, I do not want to have to try to solder Prom sockets onto the Tivo mother board*


This is a common misconception. You do not need to install a Prom socket, you simply need to remove the pron, reprogram it, and solder it back in. This takes much less time than installing a Prom Socket.


----------



## TechDreamer

I have found the "other" site the most hostile and unfriendly place to try to learn Tivo hacking. The site has also become outdated and very unorganized. I have done some Tivo hacking and upgrading, but the time needed to really learn how to do everything can be daunting.


----------



## VinceA

> _Originally posted by Linus T. _
> *This is a common misconception. You do not need to install a Prom socket, you simply need to remove the pron, reprogram it, and solder it back in. This takes much less time than installing a Prom Socket. *


For the average user, the word "simply" usually doesn't go into a sentence that includes the words "remove the PROM", "reprogram", "solder".


----------



## zleep

> _Originally posted by TechDreamer _
> *I have found the "other" site the most hostile and unfriendly place to try to learn Tivo hacking. The site has also become outdated and very unorganized. I have done some Tivo hacking and upgrading, but the time needed to really learn how to do everything can be daunting. *


 Can you recommend a less outdated tivo hacking site?


----------



## Linus T.

> _Originally posted by VinceA _
> *For the average user, the word "simply" usually doesn't go into a sentence that includes the words "remove the PROM", "reprogram", "solder". *


Right you are, hacking is not for lamers. If you don't know how to fix a piece of equipment you should not have the cover open in the first place. That goes for Tivos, computers, cars, and any other expensive piece of hardware.


----------



## DVDerek

Will you guys all please go back to your "other forum?" If this place is so lame, why do you bother coming here? As stated in a much better reply previously, we're interested in moving forward without removing the cover of the TiVo and breaking out a soldering iron. We all bow to your technical prowess. Now go away.

Moving forward, I'd like to see a more sophisticated PC Frontend for TiVo To Go, a la JavaHMO.


----------



## captain_video

> I have found the "other" site the most hostile and unfriendly place to try to learn Tivo hacking. The site has also become outdated and very unorganized. I have done some Tivo hacking and upgrading, but the time needed to really learn how to do everything can be daunting.


If you found it to be that way then most likely you went there looking for a handout. It's a hacker site, plain and simple. It's not for the "end user" as someone stated previously. If you go there looking for a simple how to then don't waste your time. You are expected to put forth some effort on your own if you want to learn how to hack a Tivo.

Performing a PROM removal is not for the faint of heart and most of the members at the "other" forum would not want to attempt it. Unless you know what you're doing you'll quickly turn your Tivo into a doorstop. The primary goal is to figure out a way to get the features we want without resorting to drastic measure. So far, just about every hack attempted has been accomplished, but it does take some time to find the right solution.



> If the goal was solely to extract video, then the combination Tivo/DVD burners that have been on the market for some time are actually superior to either of these other solution


If that's the way you feel then get yourself a combo unit and be happy. Some of us like the ability to edit the videos and author them to DVD with menus and chapter stops for a more professional look. The one area that I would disagree with you on is that the quality of the video recorded on a combo unit will be comparable to a SA Tivo but will definitely be inferior to a DTivo recording. Extraction from a DTivo will also preserve the Dolby Digital soundtracks, if present. Your combo unit (and any other SA Tivo, ReplayTV, or whatever) will NOT record DD audio.



> Right you are, hacking is not for lamers. If you don't know how to fix a piece of equipment you should not have the cover open in the first place. That goes for Tivos, computers, cars, and any other expensive piece of hardware.


Absolutely true and I couldn't have said it better. If you don't have the aptitude or the attitude, please don't come to the other forum. It is only for people that want to learn how to get the most out of a Tivo and don't mind a challenge. You'd be amazed at how easy it really is to incorporate most of the hacks but you need to learn the basics first.



> Will you guys all please go back to your "other forum?" If this place is so lame, why do you bother coming here? As stated in a much better reply previously, we're interested in moving forward without removing the cover of the TiVo and breaking out a soldering iron. We all bow to your technical prowess. Now go away.


No problem. The only reason I came here is because someone posted a link to this thread at the other forum and I was curious to see what the fuss was all about. I realize hacking a Tivo is not for everyone. You can certainly wait years for DTV and Tivo to possibly give you a fraction of the same hacks we have and charge you extra for it or you can learn how to do it for yourself and enjoy them now at no charge. As to why I bother coming here, the answer is I really don't know since it really has nothing to offer to a Tivo hacker. If you just want to be a Tivo owner and a member of a social club then I guess this is the place to be. Enjoy your Tivo ToGo with the crippled functionality. I've got some DVDs to burn.

FYI - The AVS forums delved into Tivo hacking long before the other forum was started. I was a member of AVS and was following the Tivo hacking scene long before the date shown under my user name. It's just a shame the mods decided to banish almost all hacking talk but that's the reason the other forum was formed. In a way, you can thank the mods here for initiating the development of the hacks you guys may never hear about since they will bend over backwards to keep you in the dark.


----------



## dswallow

> _Originally posted by captain_video _
> *If you found it to be that way then most likely you went there looking for a handout. It's a hacker site, plain and simple. It's not for the "end user" as someone stated previously. If you go there looking for a simple how to then don't waste your time. You are expected to put forth some effort on your own if you want to learn how to hack a Tivo. *


For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions.


----------



## cat5

> _Originally posted by captain_video _
> *I 24 hours so read it quickly. *


Hmm... 24 hours and the post is still here.

Maybe its because The forum operators feel a little safer now that video transfers functions are out in the open.
I've been debating what kind of discussions I allow on my own sites too. Its not that I have any alliengence to some big media company. No I presume the operator of this site falls under the same category as some of us.

a) College students
b) Developers who run forums as a spare time thing
c) small organizations

None of which has the resources to hire big time laywers if some company decides to go after us with something like the DMCA or some other ill conceived law.

Now as far as hacking the Tivo, Its best to keep your eyes and ears open , there's actually a lot of stuff in this release to explore. So don't go criticizing people. Most off us know where to find all the toys, and guess what there are other sites with toys too.

You boys and toys... e..gads.

I would more than gladly match my development (ok , hacking) skills hardware and software anytime.
But right now I think I'll go back to hacking the wireless protocol of my nintendo.

Take my signature line seriously.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by cat5 _
> *
> You boys and toys... e..gads.
> *


----------



## EwanG

Ahem...

If we can get back onto the subject, I'm wondering if anyone has determined if any of the ty based kits and their tools (how's that for being obscure) or anything else out there would let someone on a Linux box view their .tivo files? If not, has anyone tried the "experiment" of unpacking the TivoDesktop.exe file and grabbing the codecs to see if you could then play the file using MPlayer or XMMS.

Similarly, someone mentioned to look at "ele2pestriple" - but google gives a grand total of 10 entries almost all of which appear to be folks saying how it didn't work for them. Not encouraging.

I understand the concept of "if you want these features you should be willing to work for them". And I actually have been able to get help from "those other" forums if I'm willing to do the background work and ask specific questions. But I haven't wanted to open my TiVO up and possibly kill it through screwing around. That's why "I" at least am excited to get some of the same features you used to only be able to get by messing around with kernels and hacks. TiVO seems to have been willing to open the system up, and that is something I plan to vote in favor of soon with my pocketbook. Which is what most companies are looking for ("what can we do that improves the bottom line").

Anyway, if I could pull a .tivo off and then somehow get it back onto the TiVO, that would solve my biggest problem. If I could convert my home movies into .tivos, that would solve my second biggest problem. If I could then edit and playback the .tivos on my computer, that would solve my last problem.

Anyone who can spell out how to do any of those, I would appreciate it. I'd even be willing to give out some of my gmail invites if that would inspire anyone 

Thanks,
Ewan


----------



## Eoghann

> _Originally posted by dswallow _
> *For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions.  *


Well they can't. They'd be a associating with "lamers". And besides it would completely ruin their ego if they weren't "special" any more.


----------



## dB02

I hacked my TiVo before, but I unhacked it after the 2nd TiVo I got was a silver nightlight TiVo. Not wanting to do a PROM mod, but wanting to have MRV, I went back to non hacked land. This TiVoToGo seems to be a very toned down version of tools that were all available for my old TiVo, with less functionality. However I am going to try and use it because of my circumstances. Meh, I just want TiVo on my ARCHOS and MRV...


----------



## cat5

> _Originally posted by dswallow _
> *For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions.  *


Unfortunately thats how hacker sites are, the key is day one you bring them some useful info and come off really strong. I used to frequent it quite a bit, lately I just go there find the info I want and go to the source of the "code". I decided to go back , couldn't even remember my old user name so I set up a new one , that should tick them off to... Like I really care!

I'm more of a replaytv gal, but recently decided to take another look at the tivo, like what I see.


----------



## captain_video

Just thought I'd check back to see where the discussion was going.



> For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions.


Sadly, there is a lot of animosity towards newbies, but mostly those that come there demanding help without bothering to read any of the forum FAQs, stickys or How Tos that are posted in plain sight. Ironically, it is also many of the newbies that jump on the bandwagon to bash the other newbies. The forum is cluttered with countless posts of this type and many of the rank and file just get fed up with the whining for help without any effort put forth on the part of the poster. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception to the rule on far too many occasions. I usually go out of my way to help the newcomers if I know they've tried to find the answer on their own first or at least post their question intelligently and with some forethought.

Let's face it, the "other forum" is not for everyone. If you feel threatened or unwelcomed by going there then just don't go there as it is obviously not for you. I'm not trying to come off as superior to anyone, just trying to let you know that the latest software releases from Tivo are old hat to everyone at the other forum. Forgive me for trying to inform anyone here that there are alternatives to this forum and ways to get more enjoyment out of your Tivos. My bad.



> If we can get back onto the subject, I'm wondering if anyone has determined if any of the ty based kits and their tools (how's that for being obscure) or anything else out there would let someone on a Linux box view their .tivo files? If not, has anyone tried the "experiment" of unpacking the TivoDesktop.exe file and grabbing the codecs to see if you could then play the file using MPlayer or XMMS.
> 
> Similarly, someone mentioned to look at "ele2pestriple" - but google gives a grand total of 10 entries almost all of which appear to be folks saying how it didn't work for them. Not encouraging.
> 
> I understand the concept of "if you want these features you should be willing to work for them". And I actually have been able to get help from "those other" forums if I'm willing to do the background work and ask specific questions. But I haven't wanted to open my TiVO up and possibly kill it through screwing around. That's why "I" at least am excited to get some of the same features you used to only be able to get by messing around with kernels and hacks. TiVO seems to have been willing to open the system up, and that is something I plan to vote in favor of soon with my pocketbook. Which is what most companies are looking for ("what can we do that improves the bottom line").
> 
> Anyway, if I could pull a .tivo off and then somehow get it back onto the TiVO, that would solve my biggest problem. If I could convert my home movies into .tivos, that would solve my second biggest problem. If I could then edit and playback the .tivos on my computer, that would solve my last problem.
> 
> Anyone who can spell out how to do any of those, I would appreciate it. I'd even be willing to give out some of my gmail invites if that would inspire anyone


I'm the one that suggested the google search for ele2pestriple because I knew it would show you some links to the other forum. To be honest, I've never used that particular hack myself but a google search yielded several links to threads that discussed the process in some detail, which is why I provided it. I haven't read through all of the threads on the subject but I thought I had seen where it was now possible to export mpegs and other video files to a Tivo even though they were not in the native Tivo format.

There are hacks that will allow you to transfer or stream videos from your Tivo to your PC and watch them with Windows Media Player. You can also transfer ty files back to the same Tivo, a different Tivo, or directly between Tivos using a standard FTP program that supports FXP transfers.

As for screwing up your Tivo, unless you start screwing with the hardware (i.e., unsoldering the PROM) all of the hacks are software related. If you make a backup image of your Tivo drive using Hinsdale's How To and MFS Tools 2.0 there's little chance that you'll actually do any damage to the Tivo itself. The only thing you'll probably do is void the warranty by removing the cover. The best way to begin hacking is just to get a new hard drive (must be the same size or larger than the original), restore the image to it, and hack it to your heart's content. If something goes haywire and the Tivo refuses to work, and it probably will at some point, restore the backup image and start over. You can always keep the original drive for safekeeping and drop it back into the Tivo should you ever need it.

Most people are simply too nervous about hacking their Tivos because of the fear factor. I didn't know squat about Tivos, Linux, or hacking in general when I started out. I'm still a relative newbie when it comes to quite a few of the hacks yet I feel confident enough to know that I could probably install them and get them working if I take the time to read about them and understand what's going on. I'm probably no different than most of you when it comes to skill level or learning ability. I just have less fear of the unknown in this area which is why I can hack my Tivo and some of you never will. There's nothing superior about me other than perhaps my level of confidence in my own abilities. I already know that I'll probably screw up a hack (been there more times than I can count) but I also know that if I read and understand that the chances of getting it working right are greatly increased. I've actually learned more about my Tivo through my failures than from my successes.

Here's the bottom line on hacking a Tivo: If you can install a hard drive in a PC, set up the BIOS to boot from a CD-ROM, burn a CD image to a CD-R, read and understand basic PC concepts, and aren't frightened by using a command prompt then you can hack a Tivo. It really is that simple.

I use a series 1 SA Tivo with Turbonet for transferring my home movies from my camcorder and then over to my PC. It yields a better image than most standard video capture cards and is easy for me to use since I've already got eight Tivos connected to my home network. TyTools is an all-in-one utility for extracting videos, muxing to mpegs, editing, and creating a DVD fileset with titles, menus, and chapter stops. I believe it has also been compiled to work on a Linux box.

VideoReDo is a commercial editing program that works extremely well for editing Tivo files. Most commercial DVD authoring programs work with Tivo files but there may be some patching required to allow importing of the video files. SA Tivos can be set up to record in DVD-compliant resolution (720x480) via Tivoweb. DTivos record in 480x480 and cannot be altered without transcoding the video on your PC. Fortunately, 480x480 TyDVDs from a DTivo play fine on most late model DVD players since it happens to be the same resolution as SVCD discs and most current players will now play SVCDs.

I'd be more than happy to point anyone in the right direction that's interested in learning how to hack their Tivos. Just don't go into it thinking that someone will be taking you by the hand to show you every step you need to do. If you don't mind a lot of reading and have a bit of patience then come on over. If you want to wait 3 or 4 years and hope that some of the hacks will be incorporated into a production model then stay here and enjoy the social life.


----------



## cat5

> _Originally posted by captain_video _
> *then come on over. If you want to wait 3 or 4 years and hope that some of the hacks will be incorporated into a production model then stay here and enjoy the social life. *


Interesting quote from the other site, more of a general theme... Tivo to go, why bother.. what does it do for us... We have our way.

By not at least looking at tivo to go, I mean at its lowest levels, you may really be missing a golden opportunity.

There are folks in THIS forum who have already answered a lot of the questions the few who dare mention ttg are asking.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2504337#post2504337


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## warewolf

Whelp, after poking around I've come to a few conclusions.

1) the .TiVo files are encrypted via the TiVo on their way out of the unit
2) a .TiVo file pulled by TiVo Desktop v.s. the https interface are the same
3) the MPEG I-Frames are not encrypted (I've been able to play a .TiVo file with mplayer (mplayerhq.hu), albeit it is REALLY messed up)
4) the fingerprint section of .TiVo files is the same across all files from the same unit, but is unique to the unit

I'm suspecting that the "salt" section is used with the media access key, possibly the unit serial number, and maybe some magic value TiVo came up with. I so want to be able to view these videos under Linux, I don't run windows except for video games.


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## cat5

> _Originally posted by warewolf _
> * videos under Linux, I don't run windows except for video games. *


TTG uses a directshow filiter which manages the unencryption, I don't think you'll be able to handle that under linux. But once I get TTG give me a few weeks and I might have a different opinion.

Meantime I wonder if you could run it in win2k under VMware workstation .


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## IO3

> _Originally posted by DVDerek _
> *Will you guys all please go back to your "other forum?" If this place is so lame, why do you bother coming here? As stated in a much better reply previously, we're interested in moving forward without removing the cover of the TiVo and breaking out a soldering iron. We all bow to your technical prowess. Now go away.
> 
> Moving forward, I'd like to see a more sophisticated PC Frontend for TiVo To Go, a la JavaHMO. *


So you want a more sophisticated whatever, but you're telling us to 'go away'...have fun cracking this on your own JACKASS!!

:down:


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## cat5

> _Originally posted by IO3 _
> *So you want a more sophisticated whatever, but you're telling us to 'go away'...have fun cracking this on your own JACKASS!!
> 
> :down: *


I'm sure I can.

Boys .. lets try and get along.

did you guys miss the sonic anouncement, It stated that with the plugin for mydvd you WILL NOT need the tivotogo desktop. If its like other plugins it will probably also work in reeldvd and maybe scenarist.

Also you can pull files off using the webserver in 7.1.

I think there is a lot here for both the technical user and the end user.
I don't even have tivo to go yet but I've been doing as much research as I can. Download the tivotogo desktop and start going through the registry entries it created for a good starting point.


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by cat5 _
> *I'm sure I can.
> 
> Boys .. lets try and get along.
> 
> did you guys miss the sonic anouncement, It stated that with the plugin for mydvd you WILL NOT need the tivotogo desktop. If its like other plugins it will probably also work in reeldvd and maybe scenarist.
> 
> Also you can pull files off using the webserver in 7.1.
> 
> I think there is a lot here for both the technical user and the end user.
> I don't even have tivo to go yet but I've been doing as much research as I can. Download the tivotogo desktop and start going through the registry entries it created for a good starting point. *


and you thought I was bad at first 

the plugin not needing TiVoDesktop is interesting. Obviously pulling the file off the TiVo just needs some HTTPS protocol code so that is not hard to do but it will be good to see decrypting from another program and see if they do anything different. Probbaly still puts some dll on the system though


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## captain_video

> Interesting quote from the other site, more of a general theme... Tivo to go, why bother.. what does it do for us... We have our way.
> 
> By not at least looking at tivo to go, I mean at its lowest levels, you may really be missing a golden opportunity.


Trust me, it is most definitely being looked at with keen interest. What you guys don't understand is that every new version of the Tivo OS has more anti-hacking code built into it. Once the developers figure out how to circumvent the code it allows us to install any of the other hacks that have already been developed for even more functionality. We don't turn our noses down at the things Tivo and DTV are including in production units but rather we welcome the fact that the masses of non-hackers are now able to enjoy some of the same features we've incorporated into our units and enjoyed for quite some time now. Let's face it, if Tivo didn't do the work for you most of you would never have these features. We just didn't feel like waiting that long to enjoy them ourselves.

Did it ever occur to any of you that Tivo saw what we were doing and thought it was a pretty cool idea? Hacking is good for Tivo sales so while they don't necessarily condone what we do they have taken a neutral stance since it is probably doing them more good than harm. The technology generated at the other site eventually trickles down to the masses. Tivo just had to find a way to incorporate the functionality and still keep Hollywood happy which is how TTG came about in the first place.

You won't ever see these features included on a DTivo model due to potential conflict with the DMCA but that's where our site comes in. DVDs created from a DTivo are an exact copy of the original DTV digital signal as they are extracted and authored entirely in the digital domain. Potential copyright infringements with the DMCA will forever keep these features from appearing on a production DTivo. SA Tivos degrade the original signal due to the extra A/D and D/A conversions applied to the signal and therefore do not violate the DMCA.


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by captain_video _
> *
> snip
> 
> Did it ever occur to any of you that Tivo saw what we were doing and thought it was a pretty cool idea? Hacking is good for Tivo sales so while they don't necessarily condone what we do they have taken a neutral stance since it is probably doing them more good than harm.
> *


most definitely - I would not have gone TiVo if I did not feel I had the plan B of just doing it myself if TiVo inc did not start delivering some of this 
*



You won't ever see these features included on a DTivo model due to potential conflict with the DMCA but that's where our site comes in. SA Tivos degrade the original signal due to the extra A/D and D/A conversions applied to the signal and therefore do not violate the DMCA.

Click to expand...

* be interesting to see what they start talking about delivering with the Cable Card TiVo. That will put the wrinkle of the DMCA right back in play for SAs. TiVo made a vauge statement of it supporting local network video, music and oictures via HMO and Broadband connections. They did not specify anything at all out of that statement - it looked like marketing plus Lawyers equal doublespeak to me.


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## jmemmott

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
be interesting to see what they start talking about delivering with the Cable Card TiVo. That will put the wrinkle of the DMCA right back in play for SAs. TiVo made a vauge statement of it supporting local network video, music and oictures via HMO and Broadband connections. They did not specify anything at all out of that statement - it looked like marketing plus Lawyers equal doublespeak to me. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think they have pretty much telegraphed what they intend however. By adding support for the broadcast and macromedia flags, they have placed both the onus and (from Tivo's point of view) the blame onto the broadcaster. If the broadcaster sets the flag to limit recording to a single instance, then Tivo will honor it by counting the Tivo copy as the sole copy and not letting it off the box. They will be able to honestly tell everyone that to do otherwise is illegal so they can't do anything about it unless the broadcaster changes the setting. If we want it, we need to lobby the broadcaster not Tivo. Since the broadcaster is able to set the flag and control access, if the broadcaster doesn't set the flag and Tivo lets it out (HD digital or not), then the broadcaster didn't exercise due diligence and no court is going to touch Tivo under the DMCA. In fact if they tried to sue, the broadcaster would likely be liable for Tivos legal cost in this limited circumstance because their failure to act is so blatent.


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## captain_video

The anti-copying flag doesn't even come into play when performing direct extraction using the methods outlined at the other forum. I'd wager they probably will with the TTG option, however. If not now then sometime later I would think. Extraction from a HDTivo is already a possibility but not a practicality due to the limitation of single-layer recordable DVDs. One hour of HD programming requires about 8-10GB of storage so you'd be talking about a lot of discs for a 2-hour movie. Once HD-DVD recordable formats are introduced it will be another story altogether.


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## jmemmott

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The anti-copying flag doesn't even come into play when performing direct extraction using the methods outlined at the other forum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes but if you start ignoring the broadcast flags, you are getting into the world of illegal activity. Even the moderators of the other forum have indicated that they are not prepared to go that far. Their dialog about this was clear:

_"If DirecTV thinks they can order a site to take down hacks, they're terribly mistaken"_

*"Incorrect. If DirecTV orders this site to take down hacks, they will be taken down without question or reservation".*

None of my hobbies raise the type of life and death ethical issue that would make make me comtemplate breaking the law over them. Maybe yours do.


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## classicsat

captain_video:


> I'm shocked because the mention of video extraction and burning Tivo videos to DVD seems to have become an acceptable topic all of a sudden.


That is becasue the "hacks" required defeating security measures.
What is being discussed here, is using the output of TiVo provided tools, although probably not in a manner intended.

EwanG: 


> That said, I would assume that since I'm an authorized TiVO user (lifetime membership on my existing TiVO) that I can DL the desktop software, grab the codec files (similar to what one does for MPlayer) and then do anything else I reasonably need to do to view on my Linux box.


If that means, on your windows box (with the decrypter and directshow filter), running the .tivo file through a convertors (such as TMpegEnc), to a format playable with Linux media players, yes.
If you mean to have a file you can do nothing with, you can do that straight with a linux box too.


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## captain_video

> Yes but if you start ignoring the broadcast flags, you are getting into the world of illegal activity.


Only if you do so with the intent of distributing copyrighted material. The DMCA is still under a great deal of scrutiny with regards to fair use. Extracting videos shouldn't be deemed illegal if done so under the terms and definition of fair use for copyrighted material. What's the difference if I watch a recording from the Tivo itself or offload it to a DVD-RW to watch at a much later date in order to free up space on my Tivo? I do so all the time and then erase the recording from the DVD-RW when I'm through watching it. It's simply another method of timeshifting. I don't want to stir up another discussion on the DMCA as it has been beaten to death in every forum I've belonged to. The bottom line is that it's unlikely anyone would consider it illegal unless I started distributing the copyrighted material for my own personal gain.

I used to have a Hughes D-VHS VCR that worked in conjunction with a Hughes Platinum DTV receiver. It allowed direct recording of the DTV digital signal to D-VHS tape. It was basically a VHS version of a DTivo but without the Tivo features. The end result was a digital copy of the original DTV signal that I could archive and play back. Extraction to DVD from a DTivo is no different with the only exception being that I did not need a specific hardware combo in order to play it back on my TV.



> That is becasue the "hacks" required defeating security measures.
> What is being discussed here, is using the output of TiVo provided tools, although probably not in a manner intended.


Yes, by defeating security measures.


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by jmemmott _
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The anti-copying flag doesn't even come into play when performing direct extraction using the methods outlined at the other forum.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Yes but if you start ignoring the broadcast flags, you are getting into the world of illegal activity.
> "If DirecTV thinks they can order a site to take down hacks, they're terribly mistaken"
> 
> "Incorrect. If DirecTV orders this site to take down hacks, they will be taken down without question or reservation".
> *


I think if TTG was being downloaded onto DirectTiVos as well , that discussion in this forum would have been very limited. Still the discusion borders on illegal when you talk circumventing the encryption of a .tivo file. the only thing that makes it moot is these are analog files and TiVo can go directly after those that might share copyrighted material to freely.

but the digital content of a cable card TiVo puts us back on the same attitude as if we were talking about extracting from DirectTV. in the CES anouncement anyone hear of TiVoToGo for that cable card model or just the vague - we will have all video, music and pcitures over HMO and broadband


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## cat5

> _Originally posted by jmemmott _
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> the type of life and death ethical issue that would make make me comtemplate breaking the law over them. Maybe yours do. *


We're talking recording TV shows here aren't we? I don't think you need to worry about the DEA knocking your door down and shooting you unless maybe your some kind of super mass distributer.
Although I did once contemplate writing a short science fiction story about a future media police force.

The definition of ethics in the 21st century has really been stretched.

The following is my opinion and it differs from that of some others.

At best there is a very precarious relationship between the content providers and the oems that manufacture the equipment.

The content providers are well aware of the capabilities of all the new recording and storage devices, and worrisome about how easy it is to gather and store copyrighted material. But at the same time the smart ones see the business potential. The betamax case may of been somewhat of a stunning defeat for the studios but in its wake was created a very profitable aftermarket for vhs tape sales that would not of existed otherwise.

The manufactures on the other hand are not in some great conspiracy with the content providers, its just that the products they produce are virtually useless without content, and the distributors of that content are not going to provide it unless there are notable safeguards. DVD roms were quite slow to catch on on the PC, even though the drives were available there wasn't a whole lot of content.

If either one crosses the line it upsets the equilibrium, thus dispute what some people fear, you will never see a blanket banning of recording shows, you will see restrictions on so called high premium content , some cable and satellite programming , in particular ON Demand and HDTV content. And even there you may be able to view it over a limited period. You probably will not see a tivotogo for DTivo anytime soon.

You will see government regulation, both the electronic oems and the content providers are protected groups, representing a significant per captita of gnp. (and major campaign contributors)

I believe fair use may be twisted and stretched, but I doubt you will see any type of active monitoring of what is downloaded, for use in litigation.
The courts have so far been reluctant to prosecute individuals for just downloading material, rather going after those who distribute the content.

Likewise both the oem's and the content providers know that exploits will be found in whatever DRM they put in place. The oems are mandated to take all reasonable steps tp guard against the circumvention of the techniques employed. What both groups count on is that the number of people with the necessary technical skills to defeat the measures is far outnumbered by the average users who do not have the skills. Care must be taken however by all parties that the environment doesn't provide a bigger breeding ground for organized crime , which has already exploited illegal duplication of tapes and DVD's. One could find an argument in had there been no prohibition would orgamized crime have gained the foothold it had in the twenties?


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## jmemmott

I do not disagree with you. I think that your analysis and comments are a valuable addition to this thread.

Yes - I also know that I am unabashedly quaint in my belief that in a nation of laws, one supports the laws that exist unless one has a good reason to do otherwise and if one doesnt like following the law, one should try to change it. I do believe something is lost ethically when alternatively, laws are seen as something to get away with breaking (unless the risk of getting caught is too great of course). Oh, well.

In any case, my comments started out focused on what Tivo might do with CC models, TivoToGo and the fact that I dont think their strategy needs to change because of the HD environment. They are following a path that effectively seeks to immunize themselves from both liability with respect to broadcasters and blame with respect to their customer base. As a business in the current environment this is probabily the best they can hope for. 

It was suggested that hacker sites would do better but looking at the fate of bit torrent trackers, deCSS sites,  belies that. 

Can individuals go deeper under cover to try to do something without getting caught? Certainly, but I do not want to follow that path so I am here in this forum which is focused on a solution Tivo and I can both live with. Some seem to think that consciously accepting those limitations is not an acceptable choice. I humbly disagree.


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## AbMagFab

DRM and fair use copyright law are in conflict. The broadcasters are trying to use digital means to force the issue, when in fact they are, without a court hearing, deciding that DRM beats out fair use.

The same happened with CSS and DVD's.

The result for DVD's has been DeCSS.

The result for "broadcast flag" will be the same.

If your intent is to simply back-up, or use another medium for your own personal use, then you are (arguably, and de-facto so far) protected under fair use.

Unfortunately, no one seems willing to take this to court, so instead we get crap like CSS, the broadcast flag, the iTunes nonsense, and a bunch of other current and upcoming DRM junk.

But as has been clear for so long, if they build it, and it prevents fair use, it'll be broken. You'd think they'd learn by now.


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## DVDerek

> _Originally posted by IO3 _
> *So you want a more sophisticated whatever, but you're telling us to 'go away'...have fun cracking this on your own JACKASS!! *


My original post was directed at those from the "other forum" who couldn't understand why some of us would want to pursue a channel that wouldn't require replacing the PROM even if it gave us less functionality. If you're truly interested in investigating the featureset provided by TiVo To Go, then by all means, unleash your l33t h4x0r skillz.


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## ZeoTiVo

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Unfortunately, no one seems willing to take this to court, so instead we get crap like CSS, the broadcast flag, the iTunes nonsense, and a bunch of other current and upcoming DRM junk.
> 
> But as has been clear for so long, if they build it, and it prevents fair use, it'll be broken. You'd think they'd learn by now. *


indeed - and due to lack of support for Mac platform and DVD burning the encryption of .tivo files is already a moot point 8 days after release to a small population. People are figuring out how to use the TiVo desktop dll install and tools like Nero and AVISynth to reencode the .tivo files as something useful on their chosen platform and use, and the beat goes on.


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## beefjello

Hi, I'm new. I've tried the web access w/ the https: // <my ip address> link and cannot seem to access my tivo at all. Just gives me the "page not displayed" page (the page you are looking for does not exist). Not sure why. Does this require that people have the upgraded (v. 7.x) version of tivo software cause i still only have my original 5.x version. And, before you ask, yes i did replace the <my ip address> with my actual tivo ip address. And i also have the latest version of tivo desktop/tivo server installed on my computer.

also, to make sure i'm doing things right, whats the best way to check if i'm using the correct ip address for the tivo?

thx in advance.


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## TiVoBill

Please refer to this thread for TiVo's position on TiVoToGo DRM:

TiVo's position on stripping DRM from programs transferred using the TiVoToGo feature


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## gonzotek

TiVoBill,
What's your(TiVo's) position on the xml data provided by the (unsupported) TiVo webserver feature? I ask because I intended on continuing development of my php class that retrieves the xml data and parses it out to meaningful arrays. If TiVo disapproves of this line of development I don't want to run afoul of them.

My thread:For PHP coders: class TiVo_XML


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## TiVoBill

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> *TiVoBill,
> What's your(TiVo's) position on the xml data provided by the (unsupported) TiVo webserver feature? I ask because I intended on continuing development of my php class that retrieves the xml data and parses it out to meaningful arrays. If TiVo disapproves of this line of development I don't want to run afoul of them.
> 
> My thread:For PHP coders: class TiVo_XML *


I don't want to get into legal talk (we have lawyers for that), I would think that using the XML data from the unsupported web interface would be fine, as long as it was not used to circumvent the encryption of .tivo files or to violate the copyrights of others.


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## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by TiVoBill _
> *I don't want to get into legal talk (we have lawyers for that), I would think that using the XML data from the unsupported web interface would be fine, as long as it was not used to circumvent the encryption of .tivo files or to violate the copyrights of others. *


 No nothing like circumvention (that's best left to smarter and more daring people than I). Just parsing the data from xml into php data-structures, for use in things like RSS feeds for blogs or personal databases of viewed programs.


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## warewolf

Personally, I think that DIVX/MPEG4 compresses better than MPEG2. MPEG2 is _old_. If TiVoToGo just gave us straight mpeg, the first thing I'd do is transcode it to MPEG4, so I could put gobs and gobs of recordings on one CD. MPEG4 isn't compatible with 99% of today's DVD players, but then again, viewing TiVo recordings on your PC is half of the point of TiVoToGo, right?

I would like to see linux support for the TiVoToGo .tivo files under linux, be it open source, or closed source. I don't care which it is, aslong as I get it.

Either way, I'm trying to figure out how to view the videos under Linux without using the DirectShow filter. It'll take me a year, but I'll figure it out eventually.


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## AnotherWin95

> _Originally posted by beefjello _
> *Does this require that people have the upgraded (v. 7.x) version of tivo software cause i still only have my original 5.x version. *


The 7.1 upgrade is required before this becomes functional.


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## AnotherWin95

> _Originally posted by justmike _
> *How about some screen shots of the web server side of this for those of us with the DVD that will probably not see it otherwise till later this year
> 
> Mike *


Here ya go - in an attachment.

Classic in this one.


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## AnotherWin95

> _Originally posted by justmike _
> *How about some screen shots of the web server side of this for those of us with the DVD that will probably not see it otherwise till later this year
> 
> Mike *


And Folder View.


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## maggard

> _Originally posted by warewolf _
> *Personally, I think that DIVX/MPEG4 compresses better than MPEG2. MPEG2 is old. *


Ahem! Some of like to think of it as "mature" (thankyouverymuch).

MPEG2 doesn't require licensing. It runs on low-cost hardware. Most importantly, it was available when the TiVO architecture was being defined and MPEG4 wasn't.


> _Originally posted by warewolf _
> *If TiVoToGo just gave us straight mpeg, the first thing I'd do is transcode it to MPEG4, so I could put gobs and gobs of recordings on one CD.*


There is no such beast as "straight MPEG". The *M*otion *P*ictures *E*xpert *G*roup is a standards setting body, not any particular compression system.

As to transcoding, you do realize that each time you recompress the material you're losing yet more quality? With the overly-compressed digital most cable plants are pumping out, which is then converted to analog by your cable box, then *re*digitized and *re*compressed to some quality setting by your TiVo in it's MPEG2 variant, it's already pretty rocky. To now pull it back out and stuff it into yet another format, well, pretty it ain't gonna be.


> _Originally posted by warewolf _
> *MPEG4 isn't compatible with 99% of today's DVD players, but then again, viewing TiVo recordings on your PC is half of the point of TiVoToGo, right?*


Well, yeah, *half*.

However are you willing to man the phones at TivoCo trying to explain there'd be TWO flavors of TiVoToGo files and one type only one works on many (but not all!) newer DVD player and the other type works on only a terribly small set. Oh and folks need TWO codecs to make 'em work, etc.

Sorry, I'm in favor of KISS.


> _Originally posted by warewolf _
> I would like to see linux support for the TiVoToGo .tivo files under linux, be it open source, or closed source. I don't care which it is, aslong as I get it.
> 
> Either way, I'm trying to figure out how to view the videos under Linux without using the DirectShow filter. It'll take me a year, but I'll figure it out eventually. [/B]


I honestly don't see that as being very likely.

I can imagine no end of clever things involving scripts pulling files through a miniature Windows install under Wine or such but extracting material completely sans DirectShow, without something more being released by TiVO, it seems improbable. That would mostly likely be based on platform popularity and therefore I'd expect Macs and their QuickTime architecture to be next, Linux much later.

Not meaning to be a downer on your whole posting, and I've some MPEG4 files from the online free Prelinger Archives that are spectacular, but unless size is extremely important, and quality and (re)compression time aren't, then MPEG4 seems a non-starter.

Perhaps in the TiVo Series 3.


----------



## dswallow

> _Originally posted by maggard _
> *MPEG2 doesn't require licensing. *


MPEG-1 doesn't require licensing. MPEG-2 does.

http://www.mpegla.com/m2/


----------



## inio

> _Originally posted by maggard _
> *MPEG2 doesn't require licensing.*


Erm, excuse me? If anything, MPEG2 Video has more strict licensing than MPEG4 Video. This is why you have to pay for real MPEG2 codecs (free ones are typically illegal and in violation of international patent law). MPEG4 Video (DivX/XVID/MP4V) is protected by patents too, but the holders haven't gotten around to exercising them, much.



> _Originally posted by maggard _
> *extracting material completely sans DirectShow, without something more being released by TiVO, it seems improbable*


Well, the DirectShow API is well documented. Assuming that the DLL doesn't rely on too much of the Win32 API and isn't packed in some protection, it should be possible to create a wrapper that links to the DLL and pulls the .tivo through it, outputting MP2V and MP2A streams that can then be re-muxed.

Note that any such system would clearly be in violation of the DMCA. Well, the compiled binary would be. The source code might not be if I remember DeCSS correctly. A T-shirt with the source almost certainly wouldn't be. A dramatic reading of the source couldn't be, could it?


----------



## dswallow

> _Originally posted by inio _
> *Well, the DirectShow API is well documented. Assuming that the DLL doesn't rely on too much of the Win32 API and isn't packed in some protection, it should be possible to create a wrapper that links to the DLL and pulls the .tivo through it, outputting MP2V and MP2A streams that can then be re-muxed.
> 
> Note that any such system would clearly be in violation of the DMCA. Well, the compiled binary would be. The source code might not be if I remember DeCSS correctly. A T-shirt with the source almost certainly wouldn't be. A dramatic reading of the source couldn't be, could it? *


I really don't think that would be violating the DMCA; you're not circumventing it, you're using a documented feature of DirectShow in a manner intended for it to be used. You're not reverse engineering, nor bypassing any security on the content since you're entering the password and decrypting it using provided tools specifically for that purpose.

You can readily write your own filter that has priority for the media types the TiVo filter uses and also outputs the same data to downstream filters and Windows would load your filter to connect to it as the normal process of making the connection graph.

TiVo's filter becomes synonymous with something like WinZip.


----------



## inio

> _Originally posted by dswallow _
> *I really don't think that would be violating the DMCA; you're not circumventing it, you're using a documented feature of DirectShow in a manner intended for it to be used. You're not reverse engineering, nor bypassing any security on the content since you're entering the password and decrypting it using provided tools specifically for that purpose.
> 
> You can readily write your own filter that has priority for the media types the TiVo filter uses and also outputs the same data to downstream filters and Windows would load your filter to connect to it as the normal process of making the connection graph.
> 
> TiVo's filter becomes synonymous with something like WinZip. *


All of what you described constitute circumvention devices. The intent of the access restriction is to require you to enter the password EVERY TIME you access the protected media. By producing an unprotected copy of the media, whether informationally identical or recompressed, you are circumventing that access restriction.

edit: everything previously below this line has been confirmed to be misinformation.


----------



## Linus T.

> _Originally posted by inio _
> *The only reason that the official DVD burning solution is legal is because:
> 1. It is authorized, and
> 2. It places the media in an equivalently, though differently, restricted medium.
> 
> Remember that despite its widespread use DeCSS is still illegal, so ripping that DVD you make with the official tool is just as illegal as extracting the original MPEG2 stream from the TiVo. If anything it's more so, because you're circumventing both the CSS encryption AND the TiVo content protection system (Which the CSS encryption has become part of).*


How exactly do you expect to write a CSS protected disc in a consumer grade burner?

Is this forum some sort of a joke? It is brimming over with misinformation.


----------



## inio

> _Originally posted by Linus T. _
> *How exactly do you expect to write a CSS protected disc in a consumer grade burner?
> 
> Is this forum some sort of a joke? It is brimming over with misinformation. *


Err, probably the later. Was a guess.


----------



## dswallow

> _Originally posted by inio _
> *All of what you described constitute circumvention devices. The intent of the access restriction is to require you to enter the password EVERY TIME you access the protected media. By producing an unprotected copy of the media, whether informationally identical or recompressed, you are circumventing that access restriction.
> 
> edit: everything below this line is possibly misinformation, please take with a grain of salt
> 
> The only reason that the official DVD burning solution is legal is because:
> 1. It is authorized, and
> 2. It places the media in an equivalently, though differently, restricted medium.
> 
> Remember that despite its widespread use DeCSS is still illegal, so ripping that DVD you make with the official tool is just as illegal as extracting the original MPEG2 stream from the TiVo. If anything it's more so, because you're circumventing both the CSS encryption AND the TiVo content protection system (Which the CSS encryption has become part of). I also have a feeling that the TiVo recordings will be flagged for Macro-Vision encoding, preventing you from recording them to a VCR or video capture card. Finally I'd wager that the official burning solution limits the number of DVDs that can be burned containing a given TiVo recording. *


But that's the thing, I'm not circumventing anything; I'm recording video playing back on my computer; the circumvention would be to take the original file and try to create your own decoder; I wouldn't be doing that; TiVo's decoder is feeding me the info unencrypted and tha'ts the info I'm working with. I never touch the encrypted file. Nor am I doing anything that's not publicly documented by Microsoft for DirectShow.

CSS information exists on an area of the DVD not writable by a consumer recorder; what TiVoToGo-authorized DVD recorder software will be doing is writing a normal, unencrypted DVD. Which you could immediately open on oyour computer and copy anywhere you wanted; it'll be a regular VOB file like any other DVD, and unencrypted.


----------



## ReadOnly

Ahem, sorry to make a post that is back on subject of this thread....is anyone able to actully download off the web address of the tivo?
I do get a now playing list and such, but I am not able to get any movement from clicking the download link.


----------



## AllAboutJeeps

> _Originally posted by ReadOnly _
> *Ahem, sorry to make a post that is back on subject of this thread....is anyone able to actully download off the web address of the tivo?
> I do get a now playing list and such, but I am not able to get any movement from clicking the download link. *


Is TiVo DT working for downloads? I read somewhere that Parental Controls must be turned off to enable downloads. Just a random guess. Good Luck!

...danny


----------



## shady

> _Originally posted by ReadOnly _
> *Ahem, sorry to make a post that is back on subject of this thread....is anyone able to actully download off the web address of the tivo?
> I do get a now playing list and such, but I am not able to get any movement from clicking the download link. *


And while we are back on topic, did anyone findout if there are URLs for the ToDo list or Season passes etc. It would be useful to be able to visualize these on one page or even print them off, without having to see just a few per screen on the TiVo


----------



## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by shady _
> *And while we are back on topic, did anyone findout if there are URLs for the ToDo list or Season passes etc. It would be useful to be able to visualize these on one page or even print them off, without having to see just a few per screen on the TiVo *


 Just asked about the same thing here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2516281#post2516281

Really hoping we get a reply in the positive!

-=Gonzotek=-


----------



## paslax

Not sure if this was ever confirmed. I can confirm it. The now playing list and downloads can be accessed from outside IPs. There is no restriction to LAN IPs. The router must be configured to allow 443 (for browsing) and 80 (for downloading).

If you're looking to get to your dynamic IP home network, I use no-ip.com. There are other dynamic dns services available.


----------



## gonzotek

> _Originally posted by paslax _
> *Not sure if this was ever confirmed. I can confirm it. The now playing list and downloads can be accessed from outside IPs. There is no restriction to LAN IPs. The router must be configured to allow 443 (for browsing) and 80 (for downloading).
> 
> If you're looking to get to your dynamic IP home network, I use no-ip.com. There are other dynamic dns services available. *


 Thanks for the confirmation. Of course, that means my ISP must be blocking port 80 on me


----------



## ShutterPriority

> _Originally posted by gonzotek _
> * Thanks for the confirmation. Of course, that means my ISP must be blocking port 80 on me  *


Actually, I thought I had read somewhere that port 80 was not allowed to be used off the local subnet by the Tivo box, only port 443/SSL? can go "off net" -- but if you're NATing I dont' see how it would know...

Now I need to find that thread again...


----------



## paslax

If that is the case, my tivo didn't get the message  If you find the thread you're talking about, post the link. Maybe there is a difference in setup...?


----------



## jmace57

> _Originally posted by EwanG _
> *
> What I am actually more interested in, is how to make my home movies into .tivo files, and then push them to one or the other TiVO to watch. Has anyone found a way to do that yet with this new option?
> *


Me too!

Jim


----------



## stiffy1k

Does this "feature" only work after Tivo2go has been installed? I have been waiting over 2 weeks now for it to automatically install with no luck. Any way to install it manually?


----------



## maggard

For an excellent how-to for extracting Tivo recordings to a Windows XP machine, with links to the required files, check out {deleted by moderator}

_No connection, just a link that's making the rounds to a particularly well written web page_

*{edit by mod: Links to sites that discuss extraction are not allowed on this forum. Please read the sticky at the top of the happy hour.

Thank you.}*


----------



## Kracko

I've used that link and now have my .tivo files saved as .mpeg but when I try to write them to DVD (2 hour show = 2.4GB) the software, MyDVD claims it won't fit on 4.5GB blank DVD I have in the machine. Any suggestions on how to make it fit?


----------



## posicat

I started writing something similar in Perl, so if any of you are interested in Perl code for reading the XML files, here you go...

threadid=220350 (I'd post a link, but I haven't posted enough It appears)


----------



## sayonaraML

Okay, was able to log in, found my files, download one. Now its on my desktop and how am I suppose to play it?


----------



## thehand

do you still need the 7.1 upgrade to use this site?

and where would I find my tivo ip. I looked in system messages and set up and didn't see it.


----------



## paslax

Yes, you will need 7.1 before using the Tivo web server. You can find the IP in TiVo->Settings->Phone and Network.


----------



## TomJHansen

Or you can look at your DHCP clients table and look for the TSN's.


----------



## MikeRadio

How coem I can use the tivo web server from my house

But from outside it seems unavailable...

Is there any port changesi n the firewall program.router I need to change....


It just doesnt load the page from outside my home network


----------



## Lon

> _Originally posted by MikeRadio _
> *How coem I can use the tivo web server from my house
> 
> But from outside it seems unavailable...
> 
> Is there any port changesi n the firewall program.router I need to change....
> 
> It just doesnt load the page from outside my home network *


Unless your TiVo has a static, Internet IP (highly unlikely) you will have to configure your router to forward port 443 (my oops - I originally wrote 80) requests to your TiVo's local net IP.


----------



## paslax

Both 443 and 80 (if you want to download). 

And no-ip.com can provide dynamic dns (if you have a dynamic IP).


----------



## Lon

> _Originally posted by paslax _
> *Both 443 and 80 (if you want to download).
> 
> And no-ip.com can provide dynamic dns (if you have a dynamic IP). *


Thank you  -- I am still waiting for 7.1 upgrade <sigh> so am writing off the cuff, as it were.

Some ISPs block incoming port 80 requests (don't know about 443) so even a router adjustment might not work unless incoming port is rerouted.


----------



## jtbmoore

my 443 is blocked by isp. any way around this with a linksys


----------



## enodev

Not sure what types of routers this will work on, but it works on my firewall/router.

You can use SNAT/DNAT to translate bogus ports to 80 and 443 on your TiVo.

Example:
<internetIP>:50080 -> <tivoIP>:80
<internetIP>:50443 -> <tivoIP>:443

To access the nowplaying list:
https://<internetIP>:50443/nowplaying/index.html

Only problem is when you click on the download link you need to manually add :50080 the URL: http://<internetIP>:50080/downloads/.....

Good luck.


----------



## Lon

On a Linksys, visit your routers configuration via http : //<router ip>/Forward1.htm (can't post regular url yet)


----------



## jazzy_james

Can someone please post the steps in configuring the port forwarding on the linksys wrt54g? thanks!


----------



## daz0r

Hey guys,

I just got the 7.1a update (TivoToGo) and I can cannot to port 80, but not 443 (HTTPS, SSL).

I did an NMap portscan and 80 is the only one open.

Other interesting facts:
- I rebooted my Tivo, no effect
- When I go to the sys info section and look at my media access key, it says "Temporarily not available"

I can get it off the web site just fine, but it bothers me that the Tivo doesn't know its own MAK.

I ensured that my tivo is set to "Allow Transfers" on the web site.

I just disabled it and then re-enabled it, so maybe that will fix it or something.

Would that account for the fact that only port 80 is available?

Thanks for any help


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I just checked, and I'm also at 7.1a, 7.1a-01-2-140 to be exact, and I still see the page on port 443.

Was there a 7.1 and this is new since then, or was this what we all got with TTG when it finally came?


----------



## daz0r

> _Originally posted by ThreeSoFar _
> *I just checked, and I'm also at 7.1a, 7.1a-01-2-140 to be exact, and I still see the page on port 443.
> 
> Was there a 7.1 and this is new since then, or was this what we all got with TTG when it finally came? *


Sorry about my poor grammar and incoherent writing, lol. I was typing fast and furious and didn't proof read.

I meant I *CAN* connect to 80, but no other ports are opened.

7.1a is the first update I got (I woke up this morning and it was there). I'm not sure if there was a 7.01 or just a 7.1 (no 'a'), but 7.1a is the first one I saw.

7.1a and now 443 (HTTPS).

Any thoughts? Anyone else seeing this?

I did have parental controls enabled. I disabled them, but still no love.

I went on the web site and unchecked "Allow Transfer" and re-checked it. I haven't done an update on the tivo yet because it's in the room where my baby's taking a nap. It'll have to wait, lol.


----------



## jmarcus

How do I determine what my TiVo's IP address is? The IP address listed in the Phone / Network setup screen is just the local IP address (192.168.1.100). Wheres the IP address for accessing the TiVo outside of my local network.

Thanks.


----------



## shady

> _Originally posted by jmarcus _
> *How do I determine what my TiVo's IP address is? The IP address listed in the Phone / Network setup screen is just the local IP address (192.168.1.100). Wheres the IP address for accessing the TiVo outside of my local network.
> 
> Thanks. *


It is your router that has "global" the ip address, and this is the IP address you need to access from outside your network. You need to look at your router settings to find that IP address. You then need to open some ports so that they are re-directed to your TiVo. I think someone listed the ports you need either earlier in this thread, or another thread in this forum

Edit - Port 443 is the one you need to forward


----------



## jmarcus

Thanks Shady.


----------



## jazzy_james

how can I port forward my 2 tivos? I have set port forwarding for my living room tivo already, but don't know how to set my bedroom tivo up. Any suggestions???


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Different ports for different TiVos.


----------



## jazzy_james

from this thread, I am currently using port 80 and port 443 for my living room tivo. which ports should I use for my other tivo?


----------



## daz0r

> _Originally posted by jazzy_james _
> *from this thread, I am currently using port 80 and port 443 for my living room tivo. which ports should I use for my other tivo? *


What he means is, use different Internet-facing ports and map them to your TIVOs, for example:

I = Internet
T1 = Tivo #1
T2 = Tivo #2

Port 9999 I -> Port 443 T1

Port 10000 I -> Port 443 T2

Open port 9999 and 10000 on your router and redirect them to port 443 on T1 and T2 respectively.


----------



## daz0r

By the way, if anyone cares, I fixed my problem.

For some reason, when my Tivo got upgraded to 7.1a, it didn't pick up my "Allow Transfers" setting from tivo.com.

I had to turn off "Allow Transfers", wait 2 hours, update TiVo, re-enable "Allow Transfers", wait 2 hours, update TiVo.

Then, viola... port 443!


----------



## Kristo

Got 7.1 last week - got my ports routed last night. Today when I got to work I was able to login to my TiVo box & few my Now Playing. I downloaded a 30 min. program and it did just fine. Extremely slow though, as others have noted. It began downloading around 130kb/sec but quickly slowed down & capped around 56k/sec. Not good enough to use now, but I'm excited about the future. Thanks to everyone who has been contributing to this thread!


----------



## thehand

this tivotogo feature is not what I expected. it seems that I have to go to the internet to transfer a file that is in the same room.


----------



## ashu

> _Originally posted by thehand _
> *this tivotogo feature is not what I expected. it seems that I have to go to the internet to transfer a file that is in the same room. *


Inaccurate info and inappropriate thread!

Read the FAQs and documentation.


----------



## WebHobbit

Has anyone using this browser based method of transfers managed to find a Windows web-browser that will allow them to download a tivo file larger than 4 gigs?

The latest builds of both Firefox and IE both have a limit of 4 gigs. Really sucks to have to use the crappy Tivo bloatware to download shows that are 2hours+ in length (HQ).

I much prefer the browser method as the Tivo software insists on loading up it's server stuff and then trying to keep running in the background after I'm done with the program. I don't serve up music or anything from my PC to the Tivo so I don't see why I need to run server software.

 

The worst part is the Tivo Desktop app automatically sets registry entries to autoload the server thingie at windows boot EVERYTIME you run the thing. So I got to MSCONFIG and disable it....then the next time I have to download a file larger then 4 gigs I have to do it all over again.

ARRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH


----------



## ashu

Its not a browser shortcoming! FAT32 formatted partitiions on your disk, under Windows 2000 or XP, cannot support files larger than 4GB.

Use a real OS (sometimes infeasible, I know!  ) or have an NTFS formatted partition available! No such file-size limits. (are there any?)


----------



## WebHobbit

Yes it is. I have confirmed this to be a Windows Browser shortcoming. I haven't formatted a drive with anything other than NTFS in about 2 years!

All of my harddrives are NTFS. See here:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/549001478631

OS is quite "real" BTW (XP Pro SP2 with all patches).


----------



## davezatz

What about Opera? Or I wonder if some of the more complete FTP programs support https without file size limitations.

CuteFTP Pro lists it as a feature....
http://www.globalscape.com/cuteftppro/features.asp?sessionid=ehezkg55cgj2y245bdnwb3ut


----------



## delfuego

> this tivotogo feature is not what I expected. it seems that I have to go to the internet to transfer a file that is in the same room.


How much money you wanna bet his laptop is accidentally connected to the wireless access point of his next door neighbor?


----------



## AnteL0pe

Tried lynx ?


----------



## ashu

> _Originally posted by WebHobbit _
> *Yes it is. I have confirmed this to be a Windows Browser shortcoming. I haven't formatted a drive with anything other than NTFS in about 2 years!
> 
> All of my harddrives are NTFS. See here:
> 
> http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/549001478631
> 
> OS is quite "real" BTW (XP Pro SP2 with all patches). *


I stand corrected! Although I'm still doubtful about theclaims alluding to the "real"ness (reality!) of XP


----------



## WebHobbit




----------



## jazzy_james

> _Originally posted by daz0r _
> *What he means is, use different Internet-facing ports and map them to your TIVOs, for example:
> 
> I = Internet
> T1 = Tivo #1
> T2 = Tivo #2
> 
> Port 9999 I -> Port 443 T1
> 
> Port 10000 I -> Port 443 T2
> 
> Open port 9999 and 10000 on your router and redirect them to port 443 on T1 and T2 respectively. *


And how do you do that on a linksys wrt54g router? I can't seem to figure that out still. I can only see my main tivo unit online since I port forward to both 80 and 443 for that unit. how do I do that again for my second tivo unit. sorry for the ignorance.


----------



## rog

> _Originally posted by jazzy_james _
> *And how do you do that on a linksys wrt54g router? I can't seem to figure that out still. I can only see my main tivo unit online since I port forward to both 80 and 443 for that unit. how do I do that again for my second tivo unit. sorry for the ignorance. *


actually, i just looked at the port forwarding page for my wrt54g (firmware 3.01.3) -- which is under the "applications and gaming" section -- and apparently you cannot do this type of port forwarding.

the port forwarding on the wrt54g is really limited/simple. it looks like this:

*Application | Start | End | Protocol | IP Address*
bittorrent | 6881 | 6889 | tcp | 192.168.1.2
tivohttp | 80 | 80 | tcp | 192.168.1.3

_ "Application" is just a name you assign to that particular line. 192.168.1.2 would be the address of a PC running bittorrent. 192.168.1.3 would be the IP address of a tivo. so connections to port 6881-6889 of the router's public IP address would be routed to the same ports on the PC, and connections to port 80 (http) would be forwarded to the tivo._

i can see why they designed it this way, it's very simple. but unfortunately this design will make it difficult to route the tivotogo ports to multiple tivos. 

anybody that can think of a workaround?


----------



## morac

> _Originally posted by rog _
> *actually, i just looked at the port forwarding page for my wrt54g (firmware 3.01.3) -- which is under the "applications and gaming" section -- and apparently you cannot do this type of port forwarding. *


If you install a 3rd party firmware you can do this very simply, but how to do so and how they work is beyond the scope of this forum. You can check out this forums for information on 3rd party firmware on Linksys products.

If you don't want to install a 3rd party firmware, you can actually do this type of forwarding, but it is not intuitive and I believe it requires having a machine with Windows XP on your network to set it up. Also it isn't persistent so if the router reboots you'll have to set it up over again:

First enabled UPNP on the WRT54g, make sure the "Network Services->Internet Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client" component of windows XP is installed (via add/remove windows component in the add/remove programs control panel).

This will get UPNP working. With UPNP you can do the type of forwarding you want. You need to Open the Control Panel in Windows XP and click on the Network and Internet Connections option, then click on Network Connections. After that you should see a connection entitled "Internet Connection". Right click on this icon and choose properties and in the new window that pops up click settings. Click Add and you can add a new port forwarding rule and specify not only the port to forward (external port), but also what port to forward it to (internal port). See the images on the page to see what I'm talking about.

Like I mentioned, that's a convoluted way of doing things so if you don't mind 3rd party firmwares you should use them.


----------



## davera98

confession: i am a newbie

i have tried to access the web page on my LAN (not going through my router from the outside world) and my browser cannot find using https my local tivo IP .

also has anyone struggled to use tmpegenc on tivo files? mine crashes whenever I load a tivo file. i am using the plus version


----------



## TiVore

Question for any of you gurus.

I have successfully been able to remote into my S2 box from work, having forwarded the ports on my Linky WRT54G to the IP of my TiVo. 

Although the "now playing" page loads ungodly slow, I can see it.

Problem is, when I click on one of the show links to download one of the shows, no matter how small, I always get "connection timed out with the server" (or something similar) after about 20-30 seconds.

Any idea why I can't download? I'm on a T1 at work which isn't the fastest, but it should be enough.

Oh, and PS: I have a bit fat Verizon fiber pipe at home...


----------



## ashu

With T-1 and fiber on the two ends, this *shouldn't* happen. But I haven't tried it yet myself (half T at work and slow cable at home) to know for sure 

Anyone else?

<edit> Have you tried anything else from work to home? File transfers, pings, remote xterms (or desktops) or anything? this could be a network issue, not a setup issue on your part/end!


----------



## TiVore

Good question. Actually yes, I have remoted into my machines at home and everything works fine. There's just something weird about trying trying to download shows off my TiVo box remotely that doesn't work.

Not a big deal, I guess...I wasn't planning on watching the stuff at work, anyway. I just wanted to see if it was possible to do it, cause I think it's kinda cool.


----------



## jazzy_james

> _Originally posted by rog _
> *actually, i just looked at the port forwarding page for my wrt54g (firmware 3.01.3) -- which is under the "applications and gaming" section -- and apparently you cannot do this type of port forwarding.
> 
> the port forwarding on the wrt54g is really limited/simple. it looks like this:
> 
> Application | Start | End | Protocol | IP Address
> bittorrent | 6881 | 6889 | tcp | 192.168.1.2
> tivohttp | 80 | 80 | tcp | 192.168.1.3
> 
> "Application" is just a name you assign to that particular line. 192.168.1.2 would be the address of a PC running bittorrent. 192.168.1.3 would be the IP address of a tivo. so connections to port 6881-6889 of the router's public IP address would be routed to the same ports on the PC, and connections to port 80 (http) would be forwarded to the tivo.
> 
> i can see why they designed it this way, it's very simple. but unfortunately this design will make it difficult to route the tivotogo ports to multiple tivos.
> 
> anybody that can think of a workaround? *


thank god it's not me. I have my wr54g configured similarly and it works fine. I believe you need to port 443 too to enable download. I don't want to run a 3rd party firmware. I was glad linksys updated their firmware recently to allow for WDS since I got the Apple Airport Express for christmas. Before their update, people had to use 3rd party firmware. I'm not going down that road still. Owell...


----------



## rog

that's cool jazzy_james. i actually only have 1 tivo, so this won't be an issue for me either. i was just looking for an answer for you when i realized you can't remap port numbers with the wrt54g's stock firmware.

thanks for the workaround ideas morac.

as an aside, some of the tricks you can do with 3rd party software on the wrt54g are pretty cool. i've been running batbox linux on the ramdisk for a while:

http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html

it's neat that it uses the ram to store the image; it doesn't actually replace (flash) the existing firmware, it just sits there running alongside it...

anyway, i'm still waiting for 7.1, so no ttg for me yet.  at least i will know what to expect (or not) from the service when i do get it.


----------



## TK421

> _Originally posted by TiVore _
> *Question for any of you gurus.
> 
> I have successfully been able to remote into my S2 box from work, having forwarded the ports on my Linky WRT54G to the IP of my TiVo.
> 
> Although the "now playing" page loads ungodly slow, I can see it.
> 
> Problem is, when I click on one of the show links to download one of the shows, no matter how small, I always get "connection timed out with the server" (or something similar) after about 20-30 seconds.
> 
> Any idea why I can't download? I'm on a T1 at work which isn't the fastest, but it should be enough.
> 
> Oh, and PS: I have a bit fat Verizon fiber pipe at home... *


Two thoughts, first do you have port 80 open in additon to 443? (Show transfers happen over 80, Now Playing is over 443). Secondly, even if you have 80 open on your router, does your Verizon block it at their end? I've got Charter, they block 80 incoming so I had to use uPnP to route it to a different port.


----------



## TiVore

Ahhh...I bet that's it. I do have port 80 open, but I but you Verizon is blocking it inbound. I heard such a rumor before, perhaps it's true.

I've never used upnp to route a port to a different port...is that hard to do? I am running my WRT54G with alternative firmware, WiFiBox...


----------



## rog

it doesn't look too hard, morac posted complete instructions above.

and it looks like your wrt54g with wifibox might be able to handle the task directly as well:

http://www.google.com/search?q=wifibox+port+forwarding&hl=en

hope that helps.


----------



## endigo

Has anyone with 7.1 tried telnet-ing, ftp-ing, VNC-ing or browsing into the open ports that were discovered?


----------



## thehand

is it just my machine or does it take longer to download the tivo file than the duration of the tivo file is long?


----------



## Amnesia

The time necessary for transfer depends on the quality level used for recording and the network connectivity of your TiVo (and, of course, the length of the recording).


----------



## thehand

> _Originally posted by Amnesia _
> *The time necessary for transfer depends on the quality level used for recording and the network connectivity of your TiVo (and, of course, the length of the recording). *


thanks.

could you elaborate a bit further?

what path is the file transfer from the DVR's hard drive taking to get into my computer?

the DVR and the computer are connected to each other by ethernet to a switch which is connected to a router which is connected to a cable modem compliments of Comcast Broadband.

the computer runs windows xp and its connection speed within this network is 100 mbps. shouldn't the transfer speed be no less than this? if not, why not?


----------



## CrispyCritter

> _Originally posted by thehand _
> *the computer runs windows xp and its connection speed within this network is 100 mbps. shouldn't the transfer speed be no less than this? if not, why not? *


 The TiVo CPU is the likely bottleneck. It's involved in a whole lot of activities that are of higher priority than TTG (including getting the current incoming show recorded and getting the current show being watched to the TV.)


----------



## Amnesia

Also, don't forget that the TiVo is connected to the network via a USB adapter. That places a hard upper limit on possible transmission speed.

However, as CrispyCritter mentioned, it is thought that the TiVo CPU is the bottleneck. Even if it isn't doing other tasks, it still needs to process the show as it's sent over the network (we don't get just a copy of the file as it sits on the TiVo's hard drive).


----------



## thehand

> _Originally posted by Amnesia _
> *Also, don't forget that the TiVo is connected to the network via a USB adapter. That places a hard upper limit on possible transmission speed.
> 
> However, as CrispyCrittermentioned, it is thought that the TiVo CPU is the bottleneck. Even if it isn't doing other tasks, it still needs to process the show as it's sent over the network (we don't get just a copy of the file as it sits on the TiVo's hard drive). *


Amnesia

thank you, CrispyCritter and Amnesia. I can take that and given this bottleneck the functionality is still useful because although I can edit and compress a show in the time it takes to transfer it, I still would have to capture the show. the Desktop (Tivo Desktop) allows transfer of more than one show at a time where capturing requires my attendence for each show.

I successfully did a transfer. I selected the show hit play, was greeted with the dialogue to enter my password and said password entered, Windows Media Player inititiated, did some processing and returned the message "...could not play the file. The Player may not support the file type or the required codec might not be installed on the computer."

I hate it when that happens

BTW-- is it true that having the DVR in standby mode hastens the transfer?


----------



## Amnesia

I can't believe that it really makes that much of a difference (if at all).


----------



## SonicJMC

I really need to know what ports the web pages on the TiVo are using. I want to be able to port forward through my router.


----------



## SonicJMC

For some reason, FireFox is UNBELIEVABLY faster than IE or the official TiVo software at transfering TiVo videos. About 3 times faster!
Only catch - One file at a time, no batch transfering.


----------



## mearlus

Google is your friend 

HTTPS isn't anything new that Tivo created. It's a standard. It runs on port 443.


----------



## ddv

So - has anyone figured out the username/password for downloading shows when parental controls are turned on? It prompts for a username/password when trying to download them so I'm guessing some pair would work. 

Now - wouldn't THAT be cool?!?


----------



## gonzotek

mearlus said:


> Google is your friend
> 
> HTTPS isn't anything new that Tivo created. It's a standard. It runs on port 443.


And just for completeness sake, non-secure (regular) http runs on port 80. There are a few other ports relating to TiVo services(on the PC side), but those are the two (80 & 443) you'd need for the webpages from a TiVo unit to work correctly.



ddv said:


> So - has anyone figured out the username/password for downloading shows when parental controls are turned on? It prompts for a username/password when trying to download them so I'm guessing some pair would work.
> 
> Now - wouldn't THAT be cool?!?


Has anyone tried using the parental code in place of the 'tivo' username? I'm not near my TiVo at the moment, so I can't try it now.


----------



## ddv

gonzotek said:


> Has anyone tried using the parental code in place of the 'tivo' username? I'm not near my TiVo at the moment, so I can't try it now.


Sorry - forgot to mention I tried many different combinations of MAK, playback password, parental control password, and "tivo". Can't seem to find one that works.


----------



## AnteL0pe

SonicJMC said:


> For some reason, FireFox is UNBELIEVABLY faster than IE or the official TiVo software at transfering TiVo videos. About 3 times faster!
> Only catch - One file at a time, no batch transfering.


I get about the same transfer speeds using FireFox and Safari on a Mac and FireFox on a Windows machine (50-70K/sec), havent tried IE. Is it possible to to multiple file transfers at once with IE? I assumed that the TiVo was limiting the number of transfers on the box....


----------



## Kristo

endigo said:


> Has anyone with 7.1 tried telnet-ing, ftp-ing, VNC-ing or browsing into the open ports that were discovered?


I've tried FTP-ing into it - doesn't work. I think someone posted in another thread about scanning for open ports, but not finding anymore that we know of. Sorry, haven't tried any other way to connect. It would be great if someone found a way into this (especially FTP)!


----------



## thehand

I heard somewhere that you can get VLC player to play these Tivo files. So far, all I get is a black screen and no audio, but the scroll bar indicates the movie is playing as the scroll knob moves per navigation buttons.

the windows media player plays the movies just fine but you can't see the scrubbing action. I like to see where I'm going when I scroll.

Or may there's another player out there with scroll/scrubbing functions.

Thanks


----------



## davezatz

thehand said:


> Or may there's another player out there with scroll/scrubbing functions.


Sadly, the .tivo file is hobbled in how it can be played/manipulated and WMP is underfeatured. I've had good luck 'unlocking' the file and playing it through WinDVD.


----------



## thehand

"Sadly, the .tivo file is hobbled in how it can be played/manipulated and WMP is underfeatured. I've had good luck 'unlocking' the file and playing it through WinDVD. "

OK so how do you unlock the tivo file?


----------



## rog

we are not allowed to talk about "unlocking" (or "extraction") on this forum. try google!


----------



## jhackney

I attempted to enter the IP of my Tivo in both IE and Firefox, but browsers cannot find server (https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html). However, I can ping the box.

Also, how can one telnet into the Tivo?


----------



## rog

jhackney said:


> I attempted to enter the IP of my Tivo in both IE and Firefox, but browsers cannot find server (https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html). However, I can ping the box.
> 
> Also, how can one telnet into the Tivo?


you have to hack the tivo to enable telnet, ftp, and so forth. if you have a newer series II (the 540 series, your service number will start with 540), it will be much harder to hack. older models are a bit easier, in general, but they all vary.

to be honest, you can probably find more info on this on the other forum, which will probably be edited out here, but it is called deal database. you can google "tivo forum" to find it.


----------



## fluffie

Is there any way around it if my ISP is blocking port 80? I've seen several references to this problem in this thread but no real answers. At least not that I understand.  I can get to the web interface on my tivo at home, but not at work (outside my home network).

Can we tell tivo somehow to listen on another (unblocked) port?

It's been suggested that I can pay Comcast another $20/month for a static IP and unblocked access, but since I'm already paying them $130/month it's not worth it to me...


----------



## rog

fluffie said:


> Is there any way around it if my ISP is blocking port 80? I've seen several references to this problem in this thread but no real answers. At least not that I understand.  I can get to the web interface on my tivo at home, but not at work (outside my home network).
> 
> Can we tell tivo somehow to listen on another (unblocked) port?


You can't tell the TiVo to listen on a different port, no. However, in some cases (depending on which model of router you have), you can have your broadband router forward a port other than port 80 to your TiVo's port 80. It would work something like this:

your public IP address, port 888 ----> your TiVo's IP address, port 80

888 is a random port number I pulled out of thin air. Let us know what model of router you have (LinkSys WRT54G, etc.), and we can probably be of more help. Of course, if you do have the WRT54G, all the instructions are already in this forum. I can point you to the correct post if you can't find them.


----------



## fluffie

Thanks! I have a Linksys BEFW11S4 router (wireless access point + cable/dsl router with 4-port switch). still having trouble with the location and syntax of configuring it in this way. perhaps i am in over my head.

I double-checked the IP on my tivo box as I found I could no longer get the web access at home. It had changed from 192.168.1.101 to 192.168.1.100 

This was a surprise to me.  I found I could assign static IP to the tivo..

So I guess my problem was not that port 80 was being blocked, cause I now have everything working, both inside and outside my home network  

Rog, I see you got a haircut. Nice.


----------



## startblazer

I've been reading all of this with great interest. After weeks of waiting, finally 7.x installed last night. Ironically I can download faster to my linux box (RH9) via the web (firefox browser) than I can to my wintel box (XPSP2). 

I tried copying the TiVoDirectShow.dll to the /usr/lib/win32 directory on my box. I use xine (seems to play more than mplayer for me). It didn't decode it, but it did play a nice pretty green screen. mplayer on the other hand just crashed with sig 11 and a lot of other gcc compiling tips. 

I'm not too good with the whole code thing so I tried things like renaming to DirectShow.dll and forcing mplayer to use directshow codecs. Still no go. Made a desperate attempt to mod mplayers codec config file (no i really don't know what i'm doing here, just thought I'd try it) and only succeeded in getting mplayer to now open .TiVo files. Still crashes out with a can't find audio codec error (something like 0x05, it flashes past real fast). 

Hope this helps. Anyone have any ideas?? My laptop is linux so that is where the "ToGo" part would be most useful for me. 
I do a lot with Nero too, but haven't had a chance to try to recode as earlier suggested.


----------



## SonicJMC

startblazer said:


> I've been reading all of this with great interest. After weeks of waiting, finally 7.x installed last night. Ironically I can download faster to my linux box (RH9) via the web (firefox browser) than I can to my wintel box (XPSP2).
> 
> I tried copying the TiVoDirectShow.dll to the /usr/lib/win32 directory on my box. I use xine (seems to play more than mplayer for me). It didn't decode it, but it did play a nice pretty green screen. mplayer on the other hand just crashed with sig 11 and a lot of other gcc compiling tips.
> 
> I'm not too good with the whole code thing so I tried things like renaming to DirectShow.dll and forcing mplayer to use directshow codecs. Still no go. Made a desperate attempt to mod mplayers codec config file (no i really don't know what i'm doing here, just thought I'd try it) and only succeeded in getting mplayer to now open .TiVo files. Still crashes out with a can't find audio codec error (something like 0x05, it flashes past real fast).
> 
> Hope this helps. Anyone have any ideas?? My laptop is linux so that is where the "ToGo" part would be most useful for me.
> I do a lot with Nero too, but haven't had a chance to try to recode as earlier suggested.


Only thing I know, and this is rediculous and I know because I have basically the same problem just a different platform, is you'd have to make .TiVo in to .mpg using your Windows box. Clunky and time consuming at best.


----------



## LordKronos

davezatz said:


> What about Opera? Or I wonder if some of the more complete FTP programs support https without file size limitations.


To anyone having trouble downloading 4GB and larger files. You need 2 things. First, you need to have a drive or partition formated with NTFS (which everyone seems to have figured out). Next, you need a program that can download the large sized files. Since it seems several of you have already confirmed the popular browsers don't support it, I didn't even try. I skippped right to using Free Download Manager (which you can also link into Firefox if you install the FlashGot extension) and it had no trouble at all with a 5GB file.

The only thing to note is that, if you use the integration into firefox, when you click on the link for the movie and then choose to download using FlashGot, the movie will be added to Free Download Manager, but it won't be aware of the username and password for your tivo box. Go into Free Download Manager, right click on the file and choose "Download properties", check the box that says "Login is required" and then enter "tivo" and your MAK as the username and password. Then you can click OK, right click on the file again, and select "Start download"


----------



## WoodyL

Just curious, but I noticed that when I put put a reference to my Tivo's IP address in my hosts files and used that address, I was unable to use the web download function, but it works ok if I explicitly use the IP address. Is there a reason for this? For example, this works:

http://192.168.123.2:80/download/Citizen Kane.TiVo?Container=/NowPlaying&id=1529292

but this doesn't work:

http://tivo_bob:80/download/Citizen Kane.TiVo?Container=/NowPlaying&id=1529292

Does the second version need some different coding?


----------



## startblazer

Try using secure (add the s) and droping the :80 (sorry I can't type it out the BBS says I'm not allowed yet)

I've had no problems referncing the tivo box this way.


----------



## bitTraveler

I found another 7.1a TiVo web page ("Your TiVo Home Page"), but it seems to be partially disabled. Hopefully, we'll see the log file links activated in a future release. It would be great to have the chance to detect failing hardware.

I really like the new direction TiVo seems to be going with the web server and HME development. Keep it coming! 

Your TiVo Home Page 
https://tivoip//index.html

*Don't forget the second double forward slashes and the "s" on http.

bit


----------



## ThreeSoFar

This one has XML-ized now playing list. Sweet!

https://your-tivo-ip/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying



bitTraveler said:


> I found another 7.1a TiVo web page ("Your TiVo Home Page"), but it seems to be partially disabled. Hopefully, we'll see the log file links activated in a future release. It would be great to have the chance to detect failing hardware.
> 
> I really like the new direction TiVo seems to be going with the web server and HME development. Keep it coming!
> 
> Your TiVo Home Page
> https://tivoip//index.html
> 
> *Don't forget the second double forward slashes and the "s" on http.
> 
> bit


----------



## gonzotek

bitTraveler said:


> I found another 7.1a TiVo web page ("Your TiVo Home Page"), but it seems to be partially disabled. Hopefully, we'll see the log file links activated in a future release. It would be great to have the chance to detect failing hardware.
> I really like the new direction TiVo seems to be going with the web server and HME development. Keep it coming!
> Your TiVo Home Page
> https://tivoip//index.html
> *Don't forget the second double forward slashes and the "s" on http.
> bit


Ugh....that would have helped me a lot when I was writing the php class and working out from scratch that this is a damn calypso protocol server.  Oh well. Hindsight is 20/20.

Hmmm....I wonder if there's a debug-enabling backdoor code to turn those links into working resources.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I tried an e-mail to the @tivo.com address on that page, but it bounced. My guess is it's a strictly internal e-mail address.


----------



## rworne

Can anyone answer this: 

I am accessing TT2G via my web browser and I have parental controls enabled. It pops up a password screen and I tried the following:

tivo
PCP = parental control password

tivo
MAK 

MAK
PCP

PCP 
MAK

MAK only (in user field and password field)

PCP only (in user field and password field)

What's the magic formula?


----------



## danieljanderson

Disable parental controls (For restricted shows)
Not a problem for kiddie shows

tivo
MAK


----------



## cejay

The XML output page looks interesting, but hard to read.
What exactly is the XML outputted now playing page good for?
Can i be presented in a nice layout in a different browser?
My internet explorer shows it in a directory type tree look..
Maybe I am viewing it wrong?
thanks
cj


----------



## rworne

danieljanderson said:


> Disable parental controls (For restricted shows)
> Not a problem for kiddie shows
> 
> tivo
> MAK


Oh I can get to the main screens just fine. the password screen pops up when I want to downoad.

This new screen refuses to do anything no matter what I type in. I just posted here because someone might be more clever than me.

EDIT:
Oh, nevermind. I just tried it with the TiVo desktop and it fails too. Can't have parental controls and TT2G apparently. Nice one.


----------



## rog

cejay said:


> The XML output page looks interesting, but hard to read.
> What exactly is the XML outputted now playing page good for?
> Can i be presented in a nice layout in a different browser?
> My internet explorer shows it in a directory type tree look..
> Maybe I am viewing it wrong?
> thanks
> cj


Yep, it's just raw XML, so it isn't going to look pretty in a browser. You'd need to add a style sheet or schema or such to make it look nice. It would be easy to do. You should check out the book "Learning XML" (O'Reilly). I just picked it up at the library and am going to play around with the HME a bit. I need to dust off the ol' Java books as well.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

And I'm sure someone will post some useful schema with an easy howto on how to use it.

(hint hint)


----------



## maiknyc

ThreeSoFar said:


> And I'm sure someone will post some useful schema with an easy howto on how to use it.
> 
> (hint hint)


Let me ask you - is this just to get the shows off your TIVO? Cause when I go to https://<my tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html there IS a list of all the shows - BUT they all have a handy little "download" link on the right side which then lets me download the show as if it were a file.

Is this different for you guys? Or am I just not understanding this thread correctly?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

no that's the case.

But the xml output at https://ip//index.html (note extra slash) could be useful to re-format the output (similar to what you're seeing on the web page) into some other format you prefer.


----------



## rworne

Working with TT2G showed one of my recordings with a message that said something like "Download not permitted by content provider" with a red "X" next to the listing.

Funny thing was, it was on a 3 second recording on my "Now Playing list". After the 3 second version, was the rest of the recording in another entry. It was downloadable.

Anyone else seeing the message stating contents are not downloadable? Perhaps I should record some stuff of of HBO.


----------



## davezatz

rworne said:


> Working with TT2G showed one of my recordings with a message that said something like "Download not permitted by content provider" with a red "X" next to the listing.


Man that was quick... I thought it would be months or longer before 'they' forced Tivo into shackling any content to the Tivo unit.


----------



## Gnoswal

Ok...noob question here...

But what is the actual address to access the tivo from outside your local network? (I have ports forwarded already)

I'd love to be able to view my own shows from on the road. 

<<PS... Just read that the software ver 7.1 supports USB 2.0 the Tivos that have the hardware and that a list of compatible 'G' USB adapters will be published in a week or so! >>


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Gnoswal said:


> Ok...noob question here...
> 
> But what is the actual address to access the tivo from outside your local network? (I have ports forwarded already)
> 
> I'd love to be able to view my own shows from on the road.
> 
> <<PS... Just read that the software ver 7.1 supports USB 2.0 the Tivos that have the hardware and that a list of compatible 'G' USB adapters will be published in a week or so! >>


Transfers that way will likely be really slow.

You need to know your router's external IP address. Do a google on "dynamic DNS".

They don't change that often, so you can check from home by looking at your router's configuration (usually via a browser pointed at the router) to find it.


----------



## Gnoswal

ThreeSoFar said:


> Transfers that way will likely be really slow.
> 
> You need to know your router's external IP address. Do a google on "dynamic DNS".
> 
> They don't change that often, so you can check from home by looking at your router's configuration (usually via a browser pointed at the router) to find it.


Thanks for the reply Three...

I know my external IP...what I'm looking for is the syntax of the actual address..

such as httb://<my external ip>...<then what?>

Do I need the port?...my tivo's local ip?

Again for the quick reply 

And yea.... I know it would be slow..but just to have the ability...


----------



## rog

Gnoswal said:


> Thanks for the reply Three...
> 
> I know my external IP...what I'm looking for is the syntax of the actual address..
> 
> such as httb://<my external ip>...<then what?>
> 
> Do I need the port?...my tivo's local ip?
> 
> Again for the quick reply
> 
> And yea.... I know it would be slow..but just to have the ability...


dude, read the thread! jeez...

[hint: read the first post ]


----------



## Gnoswal

I did..thought it was only for access locally...

But I got...thx

Like I said...noob question..


----------



## lglenn73

I've got a question. Isn't creating a web server like this going to enable Internet File Sharing on people with Static IP's?

I believe SonicBlue got sued for allowing this on their ReplayTVs (which doesn't have encrypted codec problems like T2G, BTW).

The only reason I bought a ReplayTV was to download MPEGs off my PVR. When I heard that TTG was released, I thought about going back to Tivo. But not with this encryption crap. And not with paying an additional $50.

Replay gave me this functionality for free and we also have DVArchive to facilitate downloading/scheduling without a remote. If Tivo allowed for this, I would come back in a heartbeat.

One thing I can say for Tivo is at least they stopped charging people $99 for Home Media Option. Now, stop charging for TTG!

Lauren


----------



## davezatz

lglenn73 said:


> I've got a question. Isn't creating a web server like this going to enable Internet File Sharing on people with Static IP's?


Tivo limits transfers to same subnet for exactly that reason. Of course it can be bypassed, but as designed Tivo I think has tried to protect themselves legally.

I agree DVArchive is great and has offered easy and clean transfers for years. We had to dump ReplayTV in my household because there was too much of a lag when changing channels for my girlfriend (fiance now) to tolerate. ReplayTV is a smaller target with less name recognition, which is why they've been able to keep their stuff as open as they have, though they did axe commercial skip.


----------



## hawk4hire

lglenn - Tivo isnt charging for T2G - You can xfer files from yr Tivo to yr PC anytime you want - for free. 
If you want to write them to a DVD - you either pay $$$ or figure another way around it.

But Tivo has not charged for this update - Yet. 

hawk


----------



## ashu

In addition, NO ONE can download your files from your TiVo "Web Server" without knowing your private, secret MAK (Media Access Key). And the instructions and all the fine print as well as some BOLD print warn against sharing this MAK. So you would do so at your own risk, and TiVo wouldn't be liable for any ensuing copyright infringements!

DVArchive is a 3rd Party application, not from ReplayTV. And in case you didn't notice, Commercial Advance and some other cool features that Replay/Sonic decided to be brave (but unwise) about were the reason they went bankrupt and were acquired, then dumped again (I think Marantz recently dumped them, right?) I'm not saying I'm happy about that. Heck, I wish they would have survived, and that TiVo would offer some of those cool 'feautures' - but that can't LEGALLY be done. Duh.

And TTG and HMO ARE free.


----------



## Stevehweb

After salivating the possibilities reading this thread from the start, I eagerly attempted to connect to my tivo's web server... but all I get is a refused connection.

Tried variations of the url with and without the 's' and single or double slashes, including all of the other url's listed in this thread - no juice.

I can ping the box just fine and the desktop s/w connects to the box fine, just no go on the web server.

I have a theory... my home network is in the 192.168.128 subnet. Perhaps tivo, in their quest to ensure only local access restricted ip's to those in the 255.255.255.0 mask?

Anyone able to refute or confirm that the higher subnet may be the issue (before I go through the huge effort of reassigning all the devices on my network)?

Thanks!

-Steve.


----------



## Amnesia

You *are* running 7.1_x_, right?


----------



## Stevehweb

Amnesia said:


> You *are* running 7.1_x_, right?


Yep, running 7.1


----------



## thehand

lglenn73 said:


> I've got a question. Isn't creating a web server like this going to enable Internet File Sharing on people with Static IP's?
> 
> I believe SonicBlue got sued for allowing this on their ReplayTVs (which doesn't have encrypted codec problems like T2G, BTW).
> 
> The only reason I bought a ReplayTV was to download MPEGs off my PVR. When I heard that TTG was released, I thought about going back to Tivo. But not with this encryption crap. And not with paying an additional $50.
> 
> Replay gave me this functionality for free and we also have DVArchive to facilitate downloading/scheduling without a remote. If Tivo allowed for this, I would come back in a heartbeat.
> 
> One thing I can say for Tivo is at least they stopped charging people $99 for Home Media Option. Now, stop charging for TTG!
> 
> Lauren


I 've been thinking about going to Replay. Is there anything that Tivo has that Replay doesn't?


----------



## juanian

I noticed that the xml from https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying is fed in the 'grouped' format, so it doesn't show all shows. Is there a different URL that lists all of the shows?

Juan


----------



## bitTraveler

juanian said:


> I noticed that the xml from https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying is fed in the 'grouped' format, so it doesn't show all shows. Is there a different URL that lists all of the shows?
> 
> Juan


Hadn't thought to try it before, but this seems to do it....

https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&Recurse=Yes

bit


----------



## ThreeSoFar

This seems to work. The HTML pages had this in them, and I tried it on the XML links ant it also works. (adding a "&Recurse=Yes" to the end of the existing URL)

https://192.168.0.4/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&Recurse=Yes


----------



## morac

Just a warning about using the "&Recurse=Yes" option.

If your TiVo has a lot of shows on it, all the shows may not be returned when that option is used. The more shows the TiVo has to put in the XML file the longer it seems to take. There seems to be a maximum amount of time that the TiVo will spend building the XML file and if it takes longer than this amount of time the TiVo will just return what it has built up until that point. 

As an example, my TiVo has around 196 shows on it. If I use the "&Recurse=Yes" option, only 128 shows will be returned. This is why the TiVo Desktop software only retrieves 50 shows at a time.


Also for some reason, the "Classic view" webpage on my TiVo never loads. I have no idea why that is, but that uses the "&Recurse=Yes" options as well.


----------



## jasonp019

Finally! I should have checked for this info a *long* time ago.

Now I can get everything I need without having to rely on an unstable windows-based OS. I am ecstatic! Now I just need to get a working 802.11g adapter or make my own ethernet drop behind my TiVo and I'll be happy as a clam.


----------



## novis

I've just recently gotten a new series 2 and while I could access the webserver, and could not get the password MAK to work. When I use user "tivo" and for the password my TivoToGo Media key I got through...


----------



## ashu

MAK = Media Access Key

HTH (Hope That Helps)


----------



## bjones9942

For those having problems accessing the web pages, but not other functions (ping, network connections, ...) - did you set the 'allow transfers' flag for your machine on the tivo website?


----------



## bitTraveler

morac said:


> Just a warning about using the "&Recurse=Yes" option.
> 
> If your TiVo has a lot of shows on it, all the shows may not be returned when that option is used. The more shows the TiVo has to put in the XML file the longer it seems to take. There seems to be a maximum amount of time that the TiVo will spend building the XML file and if it takes longer than this amount of time the TiVo will just return what it has built up until that point.
> 
> As an example, my TiVo has around 196 shows on it. If I use the "&Recurse=Yes" option, only 128 shows will be returned. This is why the TiVo Desktop software only retrieves 50 shows at a time.
> 
> Also for some reason, the "Classic view" webpage on my TiVo never loads. I have no idea why that is, but that uses the "&Recurse=Yes" options as well.


Ahh, My TiVo HD is too small(stock 60GB) to see this limitation. Sorry if it's stating the obvious (I'm not a developer.), but it seems you can run multiple recurse "on" calls with anchoroffsets and count limitations. Something like this...

<First 50 programs>
https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&ItemCount=50&Recurse=Yes

Followed by...

<Programs 51 to 100>
https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&ItemCount=50&AnchorOffset=50&Recurse=Yes

Etc... From your description, it sounds like that's what TiVo Desktop does? Or you could do it in chunks of 100, if that seems safe enough.

bit


----------



## gonzotek

bitTraveler said:


> Ahh, My TiVo HD is too small(stock 60GB) to see this limitation. Sorry if it's stating the obvious (I'm not a developer.), but it seems you can run multiple recurse "on" calls with anchoroffsets and count limitations. Something like this...
> 
> <First 50 programs>
> https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&ItemCount=50&Recurse=Yes
> 
> Followed by...
> 
> <Programs 51 to 100>
> https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&ItemCount=50&AnchorOffset=50&Recurse=Yes
> 
> Etc... From your description, it sounds like that's what TiVo Desktop does? Or you could do it in chunks of 100, if that seems safe enough.
> 
> bit


Yes, that's how it would be done. Morac posted something about that in one of the php threads, but it's buried in the middle of the thread somewhere. I'm working his various suggestions into the improvements I've made to the main parsing code, along with some new ways to pull the xml down (curl/libcurl vs. wget).


----------



## rad1701

Danimal4326 said:


> Ahh you're right. Didn't think of that.
> 
> Go to
> 
> https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html
> 
> using user: tivo
> pass: <MAK>
> 
> It gives u a nice web interface to every show on your Tivo!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Also, like your TiVo box, you can choose classic (sort by record time) or folders view.
> 
> At the bottom, there is a warning message


This doesn't seem to be owrking for me. I used TIVO as the user name and my MAK as the Password but it won't let me in. I am trying this from a PC that does have the TIVO desktop software installed. And I have transferred a couple programs using it. But I can't seem to get the direct web interface to work. Any suggestions?

LOL.....ignore most of the above. I was entering my play TIVO recordings password and not my MAK. I got in now with "TIVO" and my MAK.....cool!!


----------



## Stevehweb

bjones9942 said:


> For those having problems accessing the web pages, but not other functions (ping, network connections, ...) - did you set the 'allow transfers' flag for your machine on the tivo website?


Thanks for your reply BJ, but nope, the 'allow transfers' flag is not the problem - in my case anyway.

I think I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to do some subnet remapping.


----------



## dshinnick

I just transferred a show over to my PC using the web browser. As it copied over, it showed that it was a .tivo file. After it finished I looked at its properties and it said that it was an Mpeg. I double-clicked it and it played in WMP10. I have the Sonic codec and Tivo Desktop installed. It surprised me that it played, seemingly, outside of the Tivo Desktop software, though I may be wrong. 

Dave S.


----------



## jasonp019

OK. Well, so far I am not very impressed and am quite jealous of those who have been able to play/convert their .tivo files. 

I had absolutely ZERO luck downloading files from my TiVo using the TiVo Desktop 2.0 software. Stupid software kept locking up and I kept having to kill it and reboot...to no avail. So, I got impatient and downloaded several .tivo files using the web interface. Now, they won't play. When WMP loads the file and asks for my MAK, I faithfully type it in straight from the TiVo's screen which shows it to me. WMP declares that that is not the right MAK, yet that's the MAK used to download it through the web interface!

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

--jasonp019


----------



## CrispyCritter

jasonp019 said:


> I had absolutely ZERO luck downloading files from my TiVo using the TiVo Desktop 2.0 software. Stupid software kept locking up and I kept having to kill it and reboot...to no avail. So, I got impatient and downloaded several .tivo files using the web interface. Now, they won't play. When WMP loads the file and asks for my MAK, I faithfully type it in straight from the TiVo's screen which shows it to me. WMP declares that that is not the right MAK, yet that's the MAK used to download it through the web interface!


But WMP does not ask for the MAK! It asks for the password, which is a separate bit of info that you set yourself when you installed TiVo Desktop. (The password, not the MAK, is also what the TiVo Desktop asks for.) Reset the password in TiVo Desktop (look under the "File" pulldown).


----------



## rlcarr

You *don't* type the MAK when you go to play the file. You type in the *password* you created when you installed TiVo Desktop 2.0. Behind the scenes the install mapped the password to the MAK.


----------



## jasonp019

Hrm. I suppose uninstalling TiVo Desktop didn't help then, eh?  I said to myself, "TiVo Desktop doesn't work for pulling the files from the unit, but I can do it over the web. Who needs TiVo Desktop? I'll remove it to save drive space."

Silly me. Does anyone else need further proof that DRM is useless and only serves to harm the law-abiding users? Sheesh.

Thanks for the help. I'm about to reinstall TD2.

--jasonp019


----------



## jasonp019

Welp, reinstalling it and setting the password worked like a charm.

Thanks!

--jasonp019


----------



## Brish

Hi all

Just got the tivo files to list on my compooter, and it works fast (500mps wired) but will only transfer 3.99 gigs and then stops! 

If it is a smaller file, it works great using win XP file downloads.

There was an issue with nVidia but I am not that good with compooters...

/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=225406

Please help - I don't want to be stuck with only a 1 hour show....


----------



## jaymst

I am having the same problem..I posted this earlier on another thread....

I have a tivo 240 and a wired network with 3 computers (2 laps & 1 desktop) I am trying to transfer a 2 hour ppv which is 5.14 gigs to the D drive on the desktop (which I use to store all my mp3's & photo's). Every way I try it always stops at 3.99 gigs. When I use ttg it stops at 77% and when I use the other method (url) it stops at the 3.99 gigs transferred. I have done this from my XP laptop using ttg and url and I have also initiated from the desktop using the url method. The desktop is Win ME so I can't use ttg desktop to transfer. Any ideas....I really want a dvd of this ppv. I have transfered another show that was 3.56 gigs without a problem. Go figure????


----------



## BobcatASL

What is your operating system ... and what is the filesystem on the D drive ?


----------



## CrispyCritter

Brish said:


> Hi all
> 
> Just got the tivo files to list on my compooter, and it works fast (500mps wired) but will only transfer 3.99 gigs and then stops!
> 
> If it is a smaller file, it works great using win XP file downloads.
> 
> There was an issue with nVidia but I am not that good with compooters...


Two often seen reasons for stopping at 3.99 GBytes:
1. Downloading via browser; many browsers have a 32 bit limit (4 GByte)
2. Downloading to a FAT32 filesystem (max 4 GBytes, even under XP). You have to convert (easy) to a NTFS file system. Click on the disk in "My Computer" to find the filesystem type.


----------



## davezatz

CrispyCritter said:


> Two often seen reasons for stopping at 3.99 GBytes:
> 1. Downloading via browser; many browsers have a 32 bit limit (4 GByte)
> 2. Downloading to a FAT32 filesystem (max 4 GBytes, even under XP). You have to convert (easy) to a NTFS file system. Click on the disk in "My Computer" to find the filesystem type.


Good stuff. I wish Tivo would syphon info on these boards, (IPV4, file size, k-lite, etc) and improve their TTG FAQ to address these issues and/or even make a comprehensive manual. Not everyone who wants to use TTG is adept with PC networking, codecs, etc. Heck I consider myself adept, but would have never ever come up with the broken packet solution - sheesh!

FYI CuteFTP supports HTTPS.


----------



## jaymst

My operating sytem on the desktop is Windows ME and I am using Internet Explorer as the browser. The file system is Fat 32. Is there a downside to switching to NTSC on the file system. I am reluctant to make this change. The browser idea sounds better. should I use Firefox?


----------



## tchwojko

ddv said:


> Sorry - forgot to mention I tried many different combinations of MAK, playback password, parental control password, and "tivo". Can't seem to find one that works.


I got it to work by tacking on the parental control code after the MAK. But that only worked by using the browser. I never get the option to put in the parental control password using Tivo Desktop.


----------



## Kracko

jaymst said:


> My operating sytem on the desktop is Windows ME and I am using Internet Explorer as the browser. The file system is Fat 32. Is there a downside to switching to NTSC on the file system. I am reluctant to make this change. The browser idea sounds better. should I use Firefox?


NTSC? I think you mean NTFS. You can't install NTFS on Windows ME. NTFS is only available for Windows NT, 2000 or XP.


----------



## jaymst

So I can't change the file system...so is there no way to copy a file larger than the 4 gig limit?


----------



## Kracko

The only way would be to upgrade to Windows 2000 or XP and convert your hard disk's file system to NTFS (easy to do).


----------



## diddycj5

Danimal4326 said:


> rule42k states that u can convert the .tivo to a regular mpeg using TMGPEnc
> 
> . . . threadid=215842
> 
> Now we're getting somewhere...


I just joined the forum and I have seen several people point to this thread, but I do not seem to have access. What is the deal? How do I get permissions to view all/this thread. Do I need to make a minimum number of posts? I cant even seem to post with the full quote with the URL to the thread.

I just just got TivoToGo yesterday and started transfering some files to my computer. I just want to be able to save off a few Episodes of my favorite show (Ed) to DVD to save them (saving to VCR doesn't cut it).


----------



## gonzotek

diddycj5 said:


> I just joined the forum and I have seen several people point to this thread, but I do not seem to have access. What is the deal? How do I get permissions to view all/this thread. Do I need to make a minimum number of posts? I cant even seem to post with the full quote with the URL to the thread.
> 
> I just just got TivoToGo yesterday and started transfering some files to my computer. I just want to be able to save off a few Episodes of my favorite show (Ed) to DVD to save them (saving to VCR doesn't cut it).


The thread was moved to an area of the forum that members can't access. Discussion of transcoding .tivo files is not allowed on this board. See here for the official announcement: Sticky: NOTICE: We do not allow for the talk of .tivo file conversion.


----------



## zooeyglass

Hi,

I received the 7 sw today and i cannot access my tivo from either tivo desktop or typing in the web server address of my tivo..any idea why? i have the MAK


----------



## billb914

zooeyglass said:


> Hi,
> 
> I received the 7 sw today and i cannot access my tivo from either tivo desktop or typing in the web server address of my tivo..any idea why? i have the MAK


go to www.tivo.com and make sure that "transfers are enabled" under "manage my account" or something like that - also reboot your tivo. I had to do that after the upgrade.


----------



## ThAbtO

billb914 said:


> go to www.tivo.com and make sure that "transfers are enabled" under "manage my account" or something like that - also reboot your tivo. I had to do that after the upgrade.


I did not have to reboot my tivo after getting the update 7.1a, I just need to make another connection to tivo to receive the MAK and my settings.


----------



## menor59

Hiyas guys.

Im running a Web site on my 192.168.1.100 Computer...and my tivo is on 192.168.1.102

how do i make this work...if my website is already on port 80 and tivo also uses post 80...Make sence 

Please explain or elaborate how to rectify this if you know how.

Regards,

Menor59


----------



## xscorpion

What is the username and password to use to use the web interface?

Tried..

Username: tivo
Password: <MAK>

it does not work. thanks.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

you type your Media Access Key for the password. Not "<MAK>" or "MAK" or some such.


----------



## xscorpion

thanks!! it works. :up:


----------



## Rocketslc

menor59 said:


> Hiyas guys.
> 
> Im running a Web site on my 192.168.1.100 Computer...and my tivo is on
> 
> how do i make this work...if my website is already on port 80 and tivo also uses post 80...Make sence
> 
> Please explain or elaborate how to rectify this if you know how.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Menor59


Menor59

I have had success using port 443 for my TiVos.
Remember it is a ttp*s*

Rock


----------



## palizzz

darn. I get as far as pasting the show in the browser URL to download or save... then, Windows Media Player fires up and says it can't play it (one or more codecs could not be found). BUT, I've verfied I have the codec and Tivo Desktop plays programs just fine when launching shows from the Tivo Desktop software.

help?



p.s. how do I set it to download vs. automatically trying to start playing after pasting the link?

e.g. <ip>/download/News%208%20at%205.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=947957


----------



## menor59

Im running a Web site on my 192.168.1.100 Computer...and my tivo is on

how do i make this work...if my website is already on port 80 and tivo also uses post 80...Make sence 

Please explain or elaborate how to rectify this if you know how.

Regards,

Menor59

rock https: port 443 dosent let me D/L shows outside my router...port 80 through tivo does...See my delimina


----------



## hyachts

So I've been trying this all afternoon and can't figure out what the story is. My router only allows for "simple" forwarding (the kind people with a stock wrt54g were alking about) but I have forwarded ports 80 and 443 to my Tivos IP. I understand that some ISPs block 80, but I should still be able to browse my Tivo using my external IP, no? I can access the web interface using my local LAN IP, but no luck using the external IP (that I retrieved with IPchicken). I'm trying to access it from within my network at the moment, but that shouldn't have any effect, should it? As an odd side note, my router reports its internet IP as 192.168.102.100 which (obviously) is not my external IP. Could this be a result of a Vonage adapter between my cable modem and my router? Any help is appreciated.

(Now that I think about it, this could be why my damned Tivo server was never available from the internet... hmmm)


----------



## hyachts

Never mind, that was it. I put the VoIP adapter behind the router, letting the router see the WAN ports it was supposed to be forwarding. Now if I could just figure out why my Vonage adapter can't seem to make a connection from behind the router... *sigh*

BTW, this is cool


----------



## ThAbtO

hyachts said:


> So I've been trying this all afternoon and can't figure out what the story is. My router only allows for "simple" forwarding (the kind people with a stock wrt54g were alking about) but I have forwarded ports 80 and 443 to my Tivos IP. I understand that some ISPs block 80, but I should still be able to browse my Tivo using my external IP, no? I can access the web interface using my local LAN IP, but no luck using the external IP (that I retrieved with IPchicken). I'm trying to access it from within my network at the moment, but that shouldn't have any effect, should it? As an odd side note, my router reports its internet IP as 192.168.102.100 which (obviously) is not my external IP. Could this be a result of a Vonage adapter between my cable modem and my router? Any help is appreciated.
> 
> (Now that I think about it, this could be why my damned Tivo server was never available from the internet... hmmm)


I believe the vonage should be plugged into 1 of the available ethernet ports beginning with port 1 and not between the modem and router, however, I don't think that port IP could be right, the router usually assign IP as 192.168.1.xxx...

Log into your router, 192.168.1.1 and Apps & gaming..... ports 2190 (both tcp and udp) and 8080-8089 tcp should be the ones forwarded.. And, don't forget to add these ports to XP firewall. The 8080-8089 tcp must be added individually.


----------



## hyachts

ThAbtO said:


> I believe the vonage should be plugged into 1 of the available ethernet ports beginning with port 1 and not between the modem and router, however, I don't think that port IP could be right, the router usually assign IP as 192.168.1.xxx...
> 
> Log into your router, 192.168.1.1 and Apps & gaming..... ports 2190 (both tcp and udp) and 8080-8089 tcp should be the ones forwarded.. And, don't forget to add these ports to XP firewall. The 8080-8089 tcp must be added individually.


Thanks for the response. As noted in my second post, I was able to fix the problem by moving my Vonage adapter behind the router. I had it between the modem and router initially because it is much more effective at managing call quality that way (and call quality was keeping my marriage more comfortable ). With higher upload bandwidth from Comcast now, I hope it will be just as good on the other side of the router. I did have to connect to my adapter to my PC to give it a static IP because it was trying to grab an IP in the wrong range for my network. Now everything is working just peachy.

BTW, I'm out of the house and getting sustained download speeds of 45-50 KB/s from my Tivo (connected to a campus network on this end). It ain't blazin', but it works.


----------



## hyachts

Okay, so I'm fairly certain this is getting beyond the scope of this thread and maybe this forum, but I'll give it a shot anyways. As stated above I was having trouble getting to my web interface from outside my network because I had a Motorola VoIP adapter between my cable modem and my router. I was able to fix the problem by moving the adapter behind my router, but my QoS (quality of service) went to crap because the adapter can't manage my internet traffic anymore. The Motorola adapter has the ability to forward ports, so I tried forwarding them to the router's IP and left the ports forwarded in the router as before. This did not work. Thoughts?


----------



## Dargon

A couple things to check: 

Make sure you are forwarding from your VoIP adapter to your router's WAN IP address (I think you said it was 192.168.102.100) rather than the LAN IP address (192.168.1.1).

Check the netmasks on both sides of the router. Hopefully they will both be 255.255.255.0. If one or the other is 255.255.0.0, check to see if you can configure it to be 255.255.255.0. To configure the netmask, on the WAN side the VoIP adapter is in control and on the LAN side the router is in control.

Hope this helps,

Dargon


----------



## danieljanderson

Would listing the IP of your VoIP in the DMZ make it any cleaner?


----------



## smyrna403

hyachts said:


> Okay, so I'm fairly certain this is getting beyond the scope of this thread and maybe this forum, but I'll give it a shot anyways. As stated above I was having trouble getting to my web interface from outside my network because I had a Motorola VoIP adapter between my cable modem and my router. I was able to fix the problem by moving the adapter behind my router, but my QoS (quality of service) went to crap because the adapter can't manage my internet traffic anymore. The Motorola adapter has the ability to forward ports, so I tried forwarding them to the router's IP and left the ports forwarded in the router as before. This did not work. Thoughts?


What type of router do you have? reason i ask is i had vonage and this problem before my job got me a t-1 with 2 line VoIP. i had a linksys and you could set the QOS in the linksys to certian ip addresses. otherwise you will have to NAT NAT if that makes sence. if you do want to do it that way i can round up an old vonage box in a day or 2 and test the setup!


----------



## hyachts

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I talked to Vonage about this and their answer was that the vt1000 is flaky with port forwarding so they're sending me the Linksys router w/ adapter. It's not wireless, but I assume that I can put my router behind the adapter and configure the port forwarding through the two devices. We shall see.

In the meantime, however, I think I've confirmed that the port forwarding on the Motorola adapter is crap. I moved the LAN (PC) output of the adapter from the WAN port on the router to one of the PC ports (effectively making it a switch, I think). All my computers/devices got IP's on the IP range corresponding to the adapter, and I can access the adapters web interface page so it's clear that the adapter is doing the addressing and functioning as the router. I configured port forwarding in the adapter to the Tivo and got no joy. I suppose this still could be a result of the router mucking things up, but to me it indicates that the adapter isn't doing its job. I suppose I could try some other things, but I'm inclined to just wait for the new adapter.


----------



## hyachts

Furthermore, I checked (under this router-as-switch configuration) and saw that the subnet mask in the adapter was 255.255.252.0 The only way to configure it in the adapter is to set a static IP, which I did (set the IP and gateway to the IPs the adapter was automatically getting from the modem), and reconfigured the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0 to match the IP configuration of my attached devices. That made me lose all internet connectivity. Now that I think about it I suppose I could try setting the subnet masks on my Tivo and computers to match the one the adapter is getting automatically. (edit: tried this, setting the Tivo to the adapters subnet mask, no love)

I apologize for cluttering this thread with my thinking aloud, but I'm learning a lot, and hoping to learn more as people more experienced than I offer advice.


----------



## bigair

Let's get back on track with this thread...

Is the Tivo web interface still functioning? I was previously able to see my "now playing" recordings, but now I am unable to get anything other than "The page cannot be displayed" using the following:

**<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html**

I was previously able to download show via the internet from my Tivo. Has anything changed or is it a connection problem to my Tivo?


----------



## danieljanderson

Are you putting https:// at the begining?


----------



## jazzy_james

bigair said:


> Let's get back on track with this thread...
> 
> Is the Tivo web interface still functioning? I was previously able to see my "now playing" recordings, but now I am unable to get anything other than "The page cannot be displayed" using the following:
> 
> **<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html**
> 
> I was previously able to download show via the internet from my Tivo. Has anything changed or is it a connection problem to my Tivo?


I faced the same problem. I was previously (last time I tried was a couple of weeks ago) able to access my "now playing" website but now I can't. Since the last time I accessed this website, I received the 7.01a update. Did this turn off this website feature???


----------



## AnteL0pe

Nope website feature still works for me. In fact, now if i just put in http*s*://<tivo ip> it will auto forward me to http*s*://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/


----------



## ThAbtO

AnteL0pe said:


> Nope website feature still works for me. In fact, now if i just put in http*s*://<tivo ip> it will auto forward me to http*s*://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/


Note the "<tivo ip>" must be replaced by the ip address on the tivo.


----------



## bigair

Yes, I did format the address correctly. I was not allowed to post my thread with the h ** p s included.

Maybe my IP changed??
Any ideas?

BigAir


----------



## ThAbtO

bigair said:


> Yes, I did format the address correctly. I was not allowed to post my thread with the h ** p s included.
> 
> Maybe my IP changed??
> Any ideas?
> 
> BigAir


Look into the tivo, messages & setup / settings / phone & network

For example: my tivo address is https://192.168.1.102/nowplaying/index.html

At this moment, I am downloading a show, tivo is on a 801.11b, to the laptop on a 802.11g at 175k/s.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Do you have port forwarding set up on a router to have external requests hit the TiVO? If so, maybe the router has a new external IP?


----------



## startblazer

I've been following this thread have been able to do everything on it (the web server, the nero stuff, even some of those things of which we are not allowed to speak ... but let me watch my shows on my linux laptop). However the transfer rate from my TiVo is disappointing.  

My original config used 10MB wireless on TiVo and took an average of:
-- 1.5hrs to transfer .5hrs of show to an XP box with a 100MB wired connection
-- 1.25hrs to my 2003 box with a 10MB wired connection (old machine)
-- 1.25 hrs to my wireless Linux box with 10MB connection
Using the TiVo web server or the TiVo Desktop (jhmo for linux) made no difference in times.

I swaped out the TiVo wireless for a wired 100MB link
--the XP box now took 1hr per .5hr of transfer
--the 2003 and linux boxes now took .75hrs per .5hr
Switched the XP box to force 100MB Full on the NIC and got the time down to matching the other machines, so XP was doing too much auto negotiating.

Whew, all that said it still takes me 45 minutes to transfer 30 minutes of video! The 30 min show is at medium quality so roughly 670MB. Do the network math and it should not take 45min to transfer 670MB over a 100MB link!! Anyone else seeing this problem?  

Also the TiVo seems to drop off the network after several hours of transfer. So bad that a ping has high packet loss, but the box is still alive. TiVo Desktop and the browser generally time out. The only apparent recovery is to reboot the TiVo. Anyone seen this one?


----------



## bigair

ThreeSoFar said:


> Do you have port forwarding set up on a router to have external requests hit the TiVO? If so, maybe the router has a new external IP?


Not familar with "port forwarding" on the router. Belkin router. How do I get started? How do I check the "new external IP"?

Any idea what the minimum signal strength required for web access? Mine varies from Marginal to Good...


----------



## rog

startblazer said:


> Whew, all that said it still takes me 45 minutes to transfer 30 minutes of video! The 30 min show is at medium quality so roughly 670MB. Do the network math and it should not take 45min to transfer 670MB over a 100MB link!! Anyone else seeing this problem?


Yes, pretty much everyone is seeing this problem. There is a lot of overhead coming out of the TiVo, which really has nothing to do with networking. Until TiVo figures out a way to optimize the TTG process, we will not be able to improve TTG transfers.


----------



## makohund

Hey folks! This is actually my first post here. Hello, thanks for all of the reading you've given me in the past, and... well... here goes. 

I've got a bit of a puzzle that has me pretty frustrated...

*Summary:*

Some files successfully downloaded via web the interface (via FireFox) can be played. Others (via wget) cannot. Help! 

*Full Story:*

I run linux pretty much full time, and was pleased to discover the web interface. At least I could download my stuff from the tivo to free up room on it without fussing around with windows. I could just stack them up to the side, and dump them to DVD in windows later. Sounded great!

Then I ran into similar issues that other have... downloads quitting before finished. They weren't filesystem issues or anything. But even using flashgot via FireFox didn't seem to work well. (I've got a couple of bowl games from my local college football team... one of them is over 11GB.)

So I fed the URL's (via "view source" looking at the webpage) into wget. Which worked BEAUTIFULLY. I stacked up all of the urls of the shows I wanted to grab into a file, and fed that to wget. (The username/passwd was passed on the command line, and worked fine.)

Every single download completed successfully, and said so. The file sizes matched. Looked great to me. Planning on viewing them in windows the next day, I made the terrible mistake of finally deleting the shows off of my Tivo.

Today, after much cursing and pulling of hair, I got a windows machine up. (Installed XP on a spare hard drive, fetched updates, installed software, and so on... I do this for a living but still can't stand the agony of bringing up windows from scratch. Especially after experiencing apt, and the equivalent tools for rpm. Anywho...)

Everything is good to go. I can download stuff via the tivo desktop, and they play fine. I can even jump through the taboo hoops to make a clean mpg out of them with no problem. (I resorted to that in an effort to work around my problem, with no luck.)

Two of the files I downloaded via the web interface will play just fine. Ironically, one of them is a file that didn't complete downloading properly in FireFox. It plays, but ends after the 1st quarter of the game (which makes sense, considering the file size.)

*BUT... the rest will not play at all.*  The tivo directshow dll doesn't like them. (So workarounds do no good either.) Says: "This recording is not a valid TiVo recording, or the correct media access key has not been set. For help, see the application you used to transfer the TiVo recording from your TiVo DVR." It actually never even asks me for my MAK, or the tivo desktop "playback password". Just goes straight to error, and leaves me at that.

The difference between the ones that play and the ones that don't? The ones that don't are all of my prized old games/shows that I pulled with wget. There is no good reason for them to be any different, but apparently the tivo software thinks they are.

The only other thing I could think of is if they were different quality settings, and the mpeg decoder doesn't like some of them. But... I'm pretty sure all of these shows were recorded the same. So that shouldn't be it. (I plan on testing it though.)

Any thoughts, comments, or ideas? Apologies for length, but I wanted to be clear and thorough. Thanks!


----------



## startblazer

I've been using linux too. Sometimes via JHMO, sometimes via the web interface. (use XP to create clean mpgs as well for viewing on linux) The thing that caught my attention is you said some of the recordings were old. Have you made any updates to your account with TiVo? 

I originally had one Series-2 box. I had the MAK installed on my machines. I had a second Series-2 at a relative house (turns out they didn't quite get the whole TiVo thing so I have that box back) but it had a seperate account - all nice an legal - with its own MAK. When I calle dTiVo to tell them I had two accounts, the merged the second box into my first. The net result was that a new MAK was generated. I had to update my desktop software. Of course anything that was pulled over prior (some old stuff) no longer played and gave me tha MAK error you describe. If I had written it down I could still make it work (I had) by resetting the password on TiVo Desktop (long enough to get clean mpgs).

Anyway, just a thought.


----------



## makohund

Interesting... but shouldn't be anything like that.

I've only had one Tivo, and have had it for a couple years now. Only one MAK, the one I got just recently. Never made any changes to the account, other than the "please give me 7.0 ASAP" request, and telling it to allow transfers, etc. Nothing that should've messed with MAKs.

Also, many of the recordings that work and the ones that don't work are of roughly the same age. (While over a year old, they were within a few weeks of each other.)

Thanks, though.  

I've since pulled a bunch over via the Tivo Desktop, and every single one works fine.

Just the ones I used wget for seem to be broken. The ones I've been saving for over a year, and now the original is deleted cuz I thought I'd pulled good copies of them off.


----------



## rahjr42

For giggles, try renaming it with a .mpg extension and see if it plays. Perhaps your method of pulling it off didn't let TiVo encode it with the MAK?

Just a silly hypothesis. . .


----------



## bigair

bigair said:


> Regarding "port forwarding" on a Belkin router: How do I check the "new external IP"?QUOTE]
> 
> Having trouble connecting to the Tivo server from outside my network. I set the vitural port on my Belkin to my Tivo's IP address and Port 80. No Joy.
> 
> I tried putting my Tivo's IP address outside in the DMZ. No Joy.
> 
> I tried to disable the firewall at the router. Still No Joy.
> 
> Any thoughts ??


----------



## Rocketslc

Try also forwarding port 443 to the Tivo's ip. Remember to use https: to connect to the Tivo


----------



## jljocson

I have seen your thread about directly downloading shows off of the tivo directly to the pc but everytime i attempt...the user id= tivo doesn't work or my MAK doesn't work. do you think it has been corrected? please help these download times are killing me!!!


----------



## jljocson

I have seen your thread about directly downloading shows off of the tivo directly to the pc but everytime i attempt...the user id= tivo doesn't work or my MAK doesn't work. do you think it has been corrected? please help these download times are killing me!!!


----------



## thehand

jljocson said:


> I have seen your thread about directly downloading shows off of the tivo directly to the pc but everytime i attempt...the user id= tivo doesn't work or my MAK doesn't work. do you think it has been corrected? please help these download times are killing me!!!


is the error message something to the effect that your user account password isn't the same that you used to transfer ....?

I think that's just the only error message the program has, so any kind of interruption in the download is ( I believe, because of lazy programming) is going to generate that message.

you only have one password that you should know by heart and one MAK that you see in your daydreams, so the error is in the downloading where there is a lot of opportunity for error if they're going to thwart a Mac user from doing unspeakable things to this pc world tivo file by encrypting on the fly (one of the reasons for less than efficient downloand that is physically connected to your computer and which should be transferred at a speed equal to the transfer speed of your network).

I use javaHMO because there is no limit size limit to how many shows I choose to transfer download. this method has been the most successful and least painfulbut when I use graphedit I'm limited to one file at a time which isn't so painful since the filtereing occurs in about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of realtime but still it's not a standard mpeg so I still have to ffmpegx or whatever to do further processing on a mac if I want to keep the file.

I'm resolved to just watch and trash using mplayer(more forgiving of these non standard tivo mpegs) to watch the filtered (graphedited) file with mplayer unless I really need to keep it.

but I'm not going to waste my time with those lame command line pc programs that will fail half the time and confine myself to a noisy pc. so what if they're free or a couple dollars. you get what you pay for.

the mac is so much more elegant and more close to fun than fighting a modal program in a pc

even if there's more steps to go through the path of least resistance to me is they way to go. I never in my life saw a penny pincher get rich unless they already are so what's the point?


----------



## jsnyder2k

I've gotten into the tivo through the links posted above, and I can see all of the recordings on my tivo, but when I click on the "download" button, I get a webpage with "Server Busy, too many transfers in progress". Anyone know what is going on here?

Thanks!

Jim

UPDATE: I found the problem. I went into task manager and shut down anything that had "tivo" running. I can transfer files now but the speed is still anemic at 2.15 kb/sec. This is killing me. Any ideas on the speed?


----------



## stephen15c

I got the web server fully functioning. Got my ports forwarding, im trying to download eps from over the net and it works thru internet explorer ... my internet conection (server side) keeps resetting. I want to use a download manager so i can resume the downloads (or have multiple threads to download faster), i am using DAP (Download Accelerator Plus) and when i try to download with it and it prompts for a password the normal Usr: Tivo PW: MAK does NOT work.
Any ideas?


----------



## rahjr42

stephen15c said:


> I got the web server fully functioning. Got my ports forwarding, im trying to download eps from over the net and it works thru internet explorer ... my internet conection (server side) keeps resetting. I want to use a download manager so i can resume the downloads (or have multiple threads to download faster), i am using DAP (Download Accelerator Plus) and when i try to download with it and it prompts for a password the normal Usr: Tivo PW: MAK does NOT work.
> Any ideas?


Perhaps try https://tivo:[email protected]/etc


----------



## ThAbtO

stephen15c said:


> I got the web server fully functioning. Got my ports forwarding, im trying to download eps from over the net and it works thru internet explorer ... my internet conection (server side) keeps resetting. I want to use a download manager so i can resume the downloads (or have multiple threads to download faster), i am using DAP (Download Accelerator Plus) and when i try to download with it and it prompts for a password the normal Usr: Tivo PW: MAK does NOT work.
> Any ideas?


Are you using the MAK number listed on your tivo for the password? You cannot use 'MAK' for the password.


----------



## Jolest

makohund said:


> Just the ones I used wget for seem to be broken. The ones I've been saving for over a year, and now the original is deleted cuz I thought I'd pulled good copies of them off.


Do you have any file-editor tools that can handle HUGE binary files?

You might want to take a peek at a COPY of a file that works and one that doesn't and see if there's anything obvious that wget might have left at the beginning of the file that the .tivo decoder doesn't like. (I say "COPY" because some editors do bad things to binary files and you don't want to munge your only copies of two of the files...)

Good luck.


----------



## jmemmott

Jolest said:


> Do you have any file-editor tools that can handle HUGE binary files?
> 
> You might want to take a peek at a COPY of a file that works and one that doesn't and see if there's anything obvious that wget might have left at the beginning of the file that the .tivo decoder doesn't like. (I say "COPY" because some editors do bad things to binary files and you don't want to munge your only copies of two of the files...)
> 
> Good luck.


If you don't have an editor that works, you can get XVI32 from the following address, http://www.chmaas.handshake.de. I have used it on a number of .tivo files without ill effects. However, these files are simply a Tivo designed header followed by a 13818-2 program stream with encrypted frames so they are not easy to understand unless you have the MPEG2 spec setting next to you...


----------



## bigair

rahjr42 said:


> Originally Posted by stephen15c
> I got the web server fully functioning. Got my ports forwarding, im trying to download eps from over the net and it works thru internet explorer ... my internet conection (server side) keeps resetting. I want to use a download manager so i can resume the downloads (or have multiple threads to download faster), i am using DAP (Download Accelerator Plus) and when i try to download with it and it prompts for a password the normal Usr: Tivo PW: MAK does NOT work.
> Any ideas?
> 
> Perhaps try h-t-t-p-s / / tivo:[email protected]/etc


Could you please clairify?
I understand that in place of "MAK" I am to use my 10-digit Media Access Key.
But do I use the numeric portion of my tivoIP in place of "tivoIP"? 
And what about the "/ect" ?

Thanks


----------



## ThAbtO

"MAK" stands for Media Access Key, and yes, you use the IP listed on the tivo for the 'TiVoIP" representation.


----------



## bigair

ThAbtO said:


> I want to use a download manager so i can resume the downloads (or have multiple threads to download faster), i am using DAP (Download Accelerator Plus) and when i try to download with it and it prompts for a password the normal Usr: Tivo PW: 10-digit MAK does NOT work.
> Any ideas?
> QUOTE]
> 
> In simple terms, when using DAP, what do I use for "username" and "password" ?
> 
> Username: Tivo
> PW: 10-digit MAK
> 
> does NOT work.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

When I do it I use "tivo". All lower case.


----------



## juanian

bitTraveler said:


> Ahh, My TiVo HD is too small(stock 60GB) to see this limitation. Sorry if it's stating the obvious (I'm not a developer.), but it seems you can run multiple recurse "on" calls with anchoroffsets and count limitations. Something like this...
> 
> <First 50 programs>
> https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&ItemCount=50&Recurse=Yes
> 
> Followed by...
> 
> <Programs 51 to 100>
> https://<tivoip>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/NowPlaying&ItemCount=50&AnchorOffset=50&Recurse=Yes
> 
> Etc... From your description, it sounds like that's what TiVo Desktop does? Or you could do it in chunks of 100, if that seems safe enough.
> 
> bit


Great info -- sorry about the late thanks; somehow, I skipped a chunk of messages in this thread, and didn't see your reply.

Oddly, the ItemCount and AnchorOffset don't seem to work when retrieving the HTML Now Playing list. I *have* had a subset of items occasionally returned with the HTML list (the bottom might show "27 items, (out of 51 total items)"), but it occurs rarely and randomly. (Now that I can access the program info using XML, I can stop dealing with the HTML stuff.)

Thanks again


----------



## dwsea375

I have tried to access my tivo via web ports 80 & 443, but those ports appear to be blocked. The only ports that appear to be accessible are tcp/2190 and tcp/2191.

Any idea what the problem might be?

I have a Humax Series 2 DVR with s/w version 7.1a-02-2-590.
The System Information page shows a line for TiVoToGo that has the value: 'a,a,i'.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

are you doing 443 via just a regular https:// URL? You don't want :443 at end....

but 80 should be there too


----------



## quarque

I have the fopllowing: 2 Tivos linked ad-hoc using wireless-b adapters and a PC added later to that network. TTG works fine, as does multi-room. I can pull up the DVR web server from the PC browser using its IP address and get my list of shows in Now Playing. When I click a 'download' link or try any other method to transfer files I get a long pause and then an error message saying the browser can't connect to that page, or something like that. I have looked at firewall settings and everything I can think of. What is blocking my transfers?


----------



## gonzotek

quarque said:


> I have the fopllowing: 2 Tivos linked ad-hoc using wireless-b adapters and a PC added later to that network. TTG works fine, as does multi-room. I can pull up the DVR web server from the PC browser using its IP address and get my list of shows in Now Playing. When I click a 'download' link or try any other method to transfer files I get a long pause and then an error message saying the browser can't connect to that page, or something like that. I have looked at firewall settings and everything I can think of. What is blocking my transfers?


Do you have parental controls turned on? They must be disabled to allow transfers.


----------



## gonzotek

dwsea375 said:


> I have tried to access my tivo via web ports 80 & 443, but those ports appear to be blocked. The only ports that appear to be accessible are tcp/2190 and tcp/2191.
> 
> Any idea what the problem might be?
> 
> I have a Humax Series 2 DVR with s/w version 7.1a-02-2-590.
> The System Information page shows a line for TiVoToGo that has the value: 'a,a,i'.


That value should be 'a,a,a'; that is probably your problem. Try disabling transfers from your account page at TiVo.com, then forcing a connection from the TiVo to pick up the change, then re-enabling transfers, and finally forcing another connection. It also might help to wait a little while between each step to allow time for both the server and the TiVo coordinate everything.


----------



## quarque

gonzotek said:


> Do you have parental controls turned on? They must be disabled to allow transfers.


nope, no parental controls ever. transfers fine using Desktop 2.1 - just not using the web browser.


----------



## Rory P

how do I know my username/password?


----------



## ashu

username: tivo
Password: your MAK (go online, log into manage account, its on the top right, or it should be in your TiVo just before the System Information detail page). Don't share your MAK!


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## Rory P

OH! Alright. I got it. Thanks.


----------



## slolife

Has anyone figured out if any other TivoConnect commands exist than just the NowPlaying list? Something along the lines of To Do, Season Pass, Messages, etc.?

I'd love to know the list or where to find a reference of commands. Or anyone have any ideas on how to go about figuring it out?

TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/????


----------



## cinthia

ZildjianB said:


> Wow, this is a great thread. I _*can't believe*_ TiVo activated a web server on its boxes in the 7.1 software... talk about making the boxes easy to hack! Not to mention the fact that TiVo has made it EASY for people to transfer their videos via the internet by opening the correct ports on their router and forwarding them to TiVo. (Yes, yes, I know... TiVo strongly discourages such things and considers doing so a violation of the TiVo license agreement but it is still worth discussing)
> 
> The word "may" above seems to suggest that TiVo's lawyers are not sure whether or not internet transfers would constitute a "copyright infringement," and I'm guessing that they will keep that opinion until the "copyright holders" start complaining about internet transfers and threatening legal action. So, if anyone attempts internet transfers they *may* be committing a "copyright infringement" and will *definitely* be violating the TiVo license agreement. But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?
> 
> It seems that TiVo--whether intentionally or not--has made internet transfers possible through a backdoor. Imagine the possibilities.... you are on vacation or on a business trip somewhere your favorite shows are not broadcasted.... you plug your notebook computer into your room's high-speed internet connection, open your favorite web browser, and connect to your TiVo's webserver via your home network's IP Address.... now you can download the episodes you missed and watch them later in the day. (Talk about pissing off your home ISP by using too much upstream bandwidth!)
> 
> Before the flaming starts, please don't think I'm suggesting or recommending that anyone go out and violate their TiVo license agreements, or (for that matter) risk committing a "copyright infringement." I'm just speculating about new possibilities and wondering why TiVo would allow such access. If 7.1 was rushed into service like many believe, then maybe this is one of many 'mistakes' we will find.... then again, maybe this was done on purpose (they certainly took time to write the above disclaimer).
> 
> WTG TiVo... this was a VERY "user friendly" thing to do.


We all get it. but can't you drop it? Why reiterate over and over the very issues that - by calling so much attention to - we be eliminated. They've mentioned SEVERAL times it's unsupported. Be glad we can finally use what we paid for and stop going on about it.


----------



## azitnay

slolife said:


> Has anyone figured out if any other TivoConnect commands exist than just the NowPlaying list? Something along the lines of To Do, Season Pass, Messages, etc.?
> 
> I'd love to know the list or where to find a reference of commands. Or anyone have any ideas on how to go about figuring it out?
> 
> TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=/????


None are known at this time. Feel free to try some URL's, though .

Drew


----------



## ashu

TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=LaundryBasketLoad_and_WasherStart
still doesn't work


----------



## Peach

Be gentle with me- I am no technowizard and need simple instruction- I have 2 home networks so can easily log off one and onto the other to see if I can acess TTG via the web from outside the network the Tivos are on. I cannot. If I am logged onto the network my Tivos are on, I can put in the ip address using the link supplied and get my nowplaying list, download shows, watch them. If I log off that network and am working on my other one I cannot. Make sense? The main thrill of the web access in my mind is to get shows to watch when I am traveling with my laptop, and since I will not be on that network then, I will be unable to access. Help? 

Network one is WPA encrypted Netgear wireless that desktop and laptop are only on. Network two is Microsoft wireless router WEP encrypted and MAC address filtered that is plugged into the Netgear router. Both kids computers and all four Tivos are on that network. I have that 2nd network because I wanted WPA protection for my work computers but the Tivos cannot do WPA, and since I needed another network for them I put the kids on it too. All four Tivos and all four computers MAC addresses are configured to network 2. 

While it may sound like I know what I am talking about, I assure you that mainly I only can follow directions, which is how I ended up with this network configuration. 

If you are still with me, can you help? Thanks!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Does the address you're using inside the network start with 192.168? That's a private network, accessible only within the network itself.

What you need to do when you're on the road is access your router's external IP address. But first you have to log onto that router (from your home network) and open up a "hole" in your router's firewall. Basically, you configure your router so when you hit it on a particular port, it knows to forward that onto the inside IP address of the TiVo (the 192.168 one).

Your router probably has a web interface to configure things. You need it's IP address to connect to it. It's likely 192.168.0.1, as that seems to be the default IP for a lot of routers. So http://192.168.0.1 might work. (Keep in mind this is an internal address--folks outside your router cannot access that IP, or if they do it's some node inside their own private network, like maybe their router.) The router will probably ask for a password, and it probably came with a default one enabled. You want to change that to something else, though. Default passwords are a bad thing.

This is a little dangerous. Normally, external IP addresses (including your laptop in the hotel room, but any old bad guy on the Internet, as well) cannot access anything but your router itself. And your router knows that the bad guys have no business going inside your network, so it doesn't let them.

If some vulnerability is ever found on the web server software on the TiVo that you're connecting to, there's the potential that a hacker on the outside can gain full control of your TiVo from the Internet. It could even then launch attacks against other hosts inside your private network.

If you open that hole in your router only when you're on the road (before you leave), and then plug it up again when you return, you'll be much better off.

Your router manual (likely available as a .pdf on the 'net someplace) might help you.

Hope this helps.

PS: I kept this pretty generic, brand name of router-wise. Also pretty basic, per your statement to that effect. A lot of this you may have had to do to configure other stuff on your router.

PPS: Oh, and by the way, YAMM.


----------



## azitnay

ThreeSoFar said:


> Your router probably has a web interface to configure things. You need it's IP address to connect to it. It's likely 192.168.0.1, as that seems to be the default IP for a lot of routers. So http://192.168.0.1 might work.


Good explanation... I just wanted to point out that many routers nowadays are using 192.168.1.1 instead. To find out for sure, you can drop to a command prompt and type ipconfig. That'll tell you what your computer's IP is; typically, your router will have a similar IP, just with a .1 as the last octet. So, if you're 192.168.1.101, your router is most likely 192.168.1.1.

Drew


----------



## davezatz

azitnay said:


> Good explanation... I just wanted to point out that many routers nowadays are using 192.168.1.1 instead. To find out for sure, you can drop to a command prompt and type ipconfig. That'll tell you what your computer's IP is; typically, your router will have a similar IP, just with a .1 as the last octet. So, if you're 192.168.1.101, your router is most likely 192.168.1.1.


Even easier with no guessing, do an 'ipconfig /all' and your router will most likely be the IP address listed under Default Gateway and/or DHCP Server.


----------



## Peach

Yes my ip address is of the 192.168 variety. I guess I need to read up on opening a port, but if I hear you correct even if I open before leaving and close upon return, this is dangerous and could allow outside access? Not sure I can take that risk, then again we are only talking the Tivos and the kid's computers which aren't exactly classified infomation- my WPA network would remain secured, right? 

I do know how to log onto my routers and I have of course changed both default passwords. Where I am losing you is how to open a port for outside access to accomplish my goal of accessing Tivo programming from the road and how to access that port from another network. Anyone want to go there, or are you gonna tell me to read my manual? I hate reading the manual...


----------



## azitnay

Opening external ports to internal devices is only dangerous when the internal device has some kind of vulnerability. There is no known vulnerability with webserver running on the TiVo at the present time, but to be absolutely safe, you have to assume that there could one day be a vulnerability found.

If some crazy vulnerability was found that allowed a hacker shell access to your TiVo, then they could theoretically access anything else on your network as well (unsecured Windows SMB shares, etc). Assuming your WPA router is connected to the same network, any devices on there would be fair game, too -- WPA protects the data during its transmission between the wireless device and the router, but after that, WPA's job is done.

All that being said, I don't expect there to be any vulnerabilities found in the webserver on the TiVo. I have all three of my TiVos set up for external access. Of course, I'm not using external ports 80 and 443 for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which being the bit of extra security having the port forward on a "nonstandard" external port provides.

As for setting up the port forwarding on your router, I'm afraid every router has its own method. It shouldn't be too hard to find via your router's web interface, but if you find yourself unable to find it, you may indeed have to RT (router's) FM.

Drew


----------



## robertsjj

Ah! This is just what I needed! I am so thankful that you posted your solution!

username: tivo
password: MAK0000 (the MAK plus the parental-controls password)

Just absolutely WONDERFUL!

Thanks.


----------



## holidayidol

Before I experiment with this method, can you let me know if this will even work on the Toshiba RS-TX20 yet?

I'm already networked successfully on a wireless router. My Toshiba IP is 192.168.0.108, my PC is 192.168.0.101 and my default gateway is 192.168.0.1. My MAK is.....just kidding  But I have it ready and written down.

I don't know if it matters, but I'm on TiVo Basic right now, although using the TiVo Plus free trial.


----------



## azitnay

Well, first of all, Plus is required for TiVoToGo.

However, does TiVoToGo even work during the Plus trial? I know MRV, M&P, etc. don't, so I would assume TTG doesn't as well.

Drew


----------



## holidayidol

azitnay said:


> Well, first of all, Plus is required for TiVoToGo.
> 
> However, does TiVoToGo even work during the Plus trial? I know MRV, M&P, etc. don't, so I would assume TTG doesn't as well.
> 
> Drew


Well, I think you are correct. I know that the M&P is not activated with my free plus trial.

But this really puts me in a no win situation right now, with the RS-TX20. I would only subscribe to Plus for the TiVoToGo feature. Yet the 7.1 upgrade and TiVoToGo has not been rolled out for these boxes yet, and there is no firm date in site to expect this either.

So, even if I did subscribe to TiVo Plus, am I correct in my understanding that the method discussed here (https://user:[email protected]) and/or TiVoToGo would STILL not work ??


----------



## azitnay

Well, then TiVo's motivation for getting 7.x rolled out to the RS-TX boxes should come from people like you . Until then, you can enjoy TiVo Basic, and save up recordings on the box to presumably TTG when you have it available to you.

Hopefully TiVo will get it out within their previous timeframe, which was this summer (still almost two months to go).

Drew


----------



## holidayidol

I was afraid of that answer....but expecting it none-the-less.



azitnay said:


> Well, then TiVo's motivation for getting 7.x rolled out to the RS-TX boxes should come from people like you .


Ok, what can I do to continue motivating them?



azitnay said:


> Hopefully TiVo will get it out within their previous timeframe, which was this summer


It's that "hopefully" that discourages me. But I suppose I can stick it out a little longer if indeed I can get this functionality soon enough. That really sucks though if you think about it.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

What type of service would you get in the end? If you're planning on lifetime anyway, and you've got the $299 in the bank ready to go, no reason not to get it now, right?

But if you're doing monthly (don't! first of all, but if you plan on it), it might make sense to wait.


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## ml98133

I'm also having trouble with wget on Linux to download Tivo files.

I'd be so happy if I could use wget to download from TiVo and even happier if I could clean up files I already downloaded with wget.

Looking at the good vs wget files, it looked like there were 6 extra bytes at the start of the wget files that were not right.

(You can compare by doing a head on files that work vs files that don't. It looks like 1440 is at the start of the wget files for some reason....)

I notices a bunch of other lines that looked like: ####\r with a four digit hex number.

So I tried: 
"cat "Wget File.TiVo" | sed '/[0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\r$/d' > testing123.TiVo"

It seemed to get rid of those lines, but didn't make the files viewable. 

I'm guessing something with the chunked encoding from TiVo and wget is causing some problem. I bet someone who really understands wget and hyperttp could figure out what went wrong and maybe find a way to clean up the files.

It's really difficult to compare since TiVo seems to use different "salt" each time so that the actual mpeg is encrypted differently each time. So, it's not possible to compare the mpeg data and see where it differs between good and bad files.

I'm using wget 1.9+cvs-stable (Red Hat modified).


----------



## ml98133

Yay!
I found a way to fix files that I had downloaded with wget with broken chunk encoding.

Here's a script...it is too slow and uses too much processor time:
sed -e :a -e '$!N;$!N;s/\r\n[0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\r\n//;ta' -e 'P;D'"$1" > temp.file
sed '/[0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\r$/d' temp.file > "$1.fix.TiVo"

I also have a perl script, which is much faster (reasonable). If anyone needs it, send me a message. (I doubt this is a common problem, so I won't bother posting the script.)


----------



## Vandy04

I read the entire thread but apparently I am completely missing something. i went into the tivo network settings and copied what it said my ip addr: 192.168.0.118 and when i try the site with my <tivo ip> inserted properly and it says cannot find server. Do i have to access with my laptop attached to that same network or can i do this from a different network like my school wireless if my tivo is set up in my apartment?

thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## grapeape

Vandy04 said:


> I read the entire thread but apparently I am completely missing something. i went into the tivo network settings and copied what it said my ip addr: 192.168.0.118 and when i try the site with my <tivo ip> inserted properly and it says cannot find server. Do i have to access with my laptop attached to that same network or can i do this from a different network like my school wireless if my tivo is set up in my apartment?
> 
> thanks for any suggestions.


Yes, the "192.xxx" address is a local network address. You can only access it from the same network. In order to access it from the internet or another network, you will need to configure your router to forward the public IP address to this local address. e.g. you type in 67.133.1.1:88 and the router reroutes to 192.168.0.118:80.


----------



## Vandy04

Ok, i understand what you've set and i set up my router to open port 443 to the ip address of my tivo, and so now if i type in the address from another network with the public wan:443 it prompts my password then takes me to the now playing page but it doesn't download the pictures, and then it will let me follow a link to a folder, but again does not show the images and then when i click download it says page not available. I've messed around with this for 2hours and still can't get it to work. Any suggestions would be extremely helpful. Thanks all.


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## Vandy04

this has to be the most frustrating thing ever. I go to my router "68.169.42.35:443" and still it takes me to the now playing page without the images and then when i click the link of "download" it takes me to the standard "the page cannot be displayed" page... any suggestions or help would be appreciated. My guess is that the router must go to the tivo because i can connect, but can't see the images and can't download the shows. Like i keep saying any suggestions would be helpful since i'm officially out of ideas.


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## azitnay

All the images, and the show download links themselves, are served up over standard HTTP (port 80) rather than HTTPS (port 443). Thus, you also have to forward port 80.

Drew


----------



## Vandy04

I must not be understanding still, because according to D-Link's help page "Because our routers use NAT (Network Address Translation), you can only open a specific port to one computer at a time." I don't understand how i can open both ports on the tivo? any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## rahjr42

"you can only open a specific port to one computer at a time." 

True. Port 80 can only be forwarded to one address/machine. It is impossible to send it to multiple machines. But you can send multiple PORTS to a single address/machine.


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## Vandy04

ok, how can i do that? i swear i've read this discussion 20 times over and i've read the manual to my d-link 254 and still don't know how to open the ports or forward the ports the way i need to do. If anyone can help me figure this out it i'd love you for life. This is the most frustrating thing posible, it's like a puzzle i can't figure out. Thanks again to everyone that's responded.


----------



## Vandy04

I've got D-Link 524 and i went to the router page and went to the virtual server page and set the advanced options, virtual server, named it and typed my tivo ip in the private ip, set the private port at 80 and public port at 80 and schedule for always on, then did the same for public port 443 and private port 443. Then when i go to the nowplaying page from another network the page prompts me to log in but then the images don't work and i can't download the episodes. Like i said, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've been working on this all day. Thanks again.


----------



## ThAbtO

You don't forward ports 80 or 443, use 2190 (tcp & udp) and 8080 to 8089 (tcp).


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## Vandy04

I did 2190 private port to 8089 public port under both, and 8080 private to 8089 public tcp and again it did not allow me to get images when i connect via another network...any ideas anyone?
thanks again for the effort


----------



## gonzotek

Vandy04 said:


> I've got D-Link 524 and i went to the router page and went to the virtual server page and set the advanced options, virtual server, named it and typed my tivo ip in the private ip, set the private port at 80 and public port at 80 and schedule for always on, then did the same for public port 443 and private port 443. Then when i go to the nowplaying page from another network the page prompts me to log in but then the images don't work and i can't download the episodes. Like i said, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've been working on this all day. Thanks again.


It's possible then that your ISP blocks port 80.


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## azitnay

You definitely won't need the 2190 and 8080-8089 ports forwarded to get this web interface working externally.

Gonzo is probably on the nose... Who's your ISP? Verizon DSL in the DC area (my ISP) blocks port 80 inbound. I, instead, forward external ports 180, 280, and 380 (for each my my three TiVos) to port 80 on the corresponding internal TiVo IP (incidentally, I do the same with 1443, 2443, and 3443).

If your router allows you to redirect ports in this manner (not all routers do, though there are sometimes firmware hacks you can put in place to achieve it), images still won't work (big deal), but you'll be able to copy and paste the download URL's into your browser's address bar, and manually append the :180 to get it to go to the right port.

Drew


----------



## Vandy04

I have adelphia cable down in charlottesville, and according to them there are no firewalls so i have no idea why port 80 appears to be blocked because i've followed every step i've heard from this post or anywhere else.


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## azitnay

Someone who claims to be having trouble with inbound port 80, even though Adelphia claims to not block anything:

http://www.apache-httpd.com/msg/12568.html

Someone who claims Adelphia blocks their inbound port 80:

http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2004-February/036113.html

I'd say there's a good chance your port 80 is blocked. If you can, try my 180 -> 80 method.

Drew


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## ashu

Port 80 in Loudoun county (VA) IS blocked by Adolfia.


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## Vandy04

azitnay, are you saying on the routers virtual server page set the public port to 180 and the private port to 80 for the ip address of my tivo, then just change the download link to the public ip:180 instead of the link to the public ip:80 that the page uses? because i've tried that and it doesn't work. I'm not quite sure how that would because when i checked via an open port checking website, port 80 is indeed blocked. I've been working on this for so long i don't want to give up because i spend most of my time away from my house and hence away from my home network. If anyone can help me, the situation is as follows, i have adelphia cable with a d-link 524 router and for whatever reason adelphia blocks port 80 so i am unable to simply forward that port on my routers virtual server advanced option. My im name is BestImNameEver22 if anyone has an idea how to fix this that can't be answered in a simple reply. Thanks again for everyone that's offered advice.


----------



## ThAbtO

Hope this helps everyone in setting the right ports.


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## Vandy04

I have those ports opened and still no images or ability to download shows from the links from outside of my home network. Additionally, when i click on a link for a download, then add :180 on the end of the ip address it still does not work despite having private port 80 forwarded to port 180.


----------



## Vandy04

Here is an attachment that shows my "virtual servers", i simply copied the info from that page on my router and pasted it into a word document. If someone can take a look at this page and give me any suggestions i'd appreciate it. Thanks again.


----------



## Vandy04

any ideas anyone??? Thanks.


----------



## dick_pfister

Vandy04 said:


> any ideas anyone??? Thanks.


Opening ports willy nilly isn't going to do much. You need simply to make sure that requests going to port 80 and 443 are forwarded to the TiVo via port forwarding. How to perform that task is outside the scope of this particular forum due mainly to the large variety of routers.

My TiVo has a reserved internal address of 192.168.0.5. I forward all requests to port 80 and 443 to 192.168.0.5 and it works quite well for downloading programs.

That business with opening 8080-8089 is the TiVo beacon stuff. You don't need that for simply using a remote computer to copy programs from your TiVo.

I tried that too, but there is some sort of firewall I cannot control in between the remote computer and my TiVo. I gave up on that.


----------



## Vandy04

I understand what you are saying and i believe i'm pasted that already. I have opened ports as suggested by anyone willing to offer advice with no luck. Apparently my cable internet provider, Adelphia, blocks attemts to access port 80. My question now is how to work around that if it is possible. I've tried having public port 180 forward to private port 80, and then manually copying the download link and changing the :80 to :180 but that does not work. At this point I'm looking for any ideas because i've tried everything i've told with no luck and i feel like i've spent so much time on this that i refuse to give up. I know i'm not nearly as computer literate as many people offering suggestions but I am more than familiar enough with a computer to follow any well laid out instructions. Thanks again to all those that have tried to help.


----------



## ashu

Well, then, make your request (externally) to another port - say 96521 (pick a random one!) and forward it to Port 80 on an internal device (Your TiVo's IP address). (Or has this mentioned before, and is your router incapable of this setting?)


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## Vandy04

Isn't that what i'm doing when i forward the public port 180 to the private port 80 or am i missing something? I have tried that and copied the download link and inserted :180 where the tivo download link has :80. Is this what your talking about?


----------



## azitnay

Vandy, I took a look at your Word document displaying your "Virtual Servers", and it does not appear that you've actually forwarded external port 180 to port 80 on your TiVo.

I assume the line in question is:


Tivo 3	192.168.0.118	TCP 80/180	always

Comparing with some of the other lines in your document, it appears to me that it's actually forwarding port range 80 - 180 (i.e. 80, 81, 82, ..., 179, 180) to your internal TiVo IP (192.168.0.118). Obviously, that won't give the desired 180 -> 80 forward; instead, it'll give 80 -> 80 and 180 -> 180.

What model router are you using? I can look up its manual online to be sure, but it's entirely possible it doesn't support the type of port redirection I'm describing. If that's the case, you're most likely out of luck with that particular router (but can always try another one).

I've also heard of firmware hacks you can install on your router to enable functionality like this, but I don't know anything about them.

Drew


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## Vandy04

Thanks azitnay, it's a D-Link 524, the manual can be found on the following link if you click on "download manual here" center top of the page: http://www.dlink.com/products/support.asp?pid=316&pv=64&sec=0

Thanks again.


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## azitnay

Ok... Page 76 of the manual makes it pretty clear that your router supports port redirection.

Just to clarify the settings, they should be:

Name: <whatever>
Private IP: 192.168.0.118
Protocol Type: TCP
Private Port: 80
Public Port: 180
Schedule: Always

Double-check that you didn't mix up the private and public ports... I'm sure you already have, but one of your posts above made it sound like you thought you were forwarding the private port to the public port, and that's not the case, so just double-check and make me happy .

If this truly doesn't work, perhaps you should try a different port besides 180 (such as ashu's excellently-selected 96521). Who knows what else your ISP might be blocking.

BTW (just to satisfy my curiosity), going back to your Word document, if you truly have external port 180 forwarded to internal port 80, than that also means you have external port 8080 forwarded to internal port 8089. Might I ask why? 

Drew


----------



## Vandy04

Okay, so I checked again and port 180 public is set to 80 private and it is still not working. I had 8080 forwarded to 8089 and 2190 forwarded to 2190 after this comment by "You don't forward ports 80 or 443, use 2190 (tcp & udp) and 8080 to 8089 (tcp)." (comment 397, then again 406). That seems to do nothing so i've deleted those port settings. I'll try the more random 96521 public to 80 private as soon as i'm back at my network. Thanks again.


----------



## ThAbtO

When I said "ports 8080 to 8089", that is ports 8080, 8081, 8082... 8089 to be forwarded to the Tivo IP.


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## Vandy04

ah, I've been away from my home network but i'll try both of those suggestions. Out of curiousity, why would you need to forward all of the ports 8080 through 8089?


----------



## azitnay

Once again, ports 8080 through 8089 have nothing to do with TiVoToGo. Try to forward them if you'd like, but it's not going to help you if your goal is to download .TiVo files remotely.

Drew


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## Vandy04

Wow...thanks for all your help azitnay. Turns out adelphia definitely blocks not only port 80 but apparently also 180, i entered a random number like 53252 and forwarded that to 80 and now i just have to insert that into the download link like you said and I can download shows. Only downside is that from two adelphia cable networks utilizing wireless both at the tivo and the computer on the seperate network I get a transfer speed of about 48 or 50 KB/Sec. Does anyone have examples of transfer times from other networks? Or suggestions on how this speed could be improved? i think my tivo has a decent signal at about 70%, maybe that is draining speed. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## Vandy04

30 minute show on high quality, 1.02 GB downloaded in 6 hr 18 minutes some how i don't think that will make this much of a usable function unless i can get that speed up from it's average of 47.5 KB/Sec


----------



## azitnay

Interesting that Adelphia blocks port 180... But whatever, glad other random ports work.

47.5KBps translates 380Kbps, which could very well be the upstream bandwidth cap on your cable modem (384Kbps is a common value). You'll have to ask your ISP to give you more upstream bandwidth, probably by paying them a lot more money per month (a business connection, perhaps).

You can also change your ISP, of course... My particular DSL connection gives me 768Kbps upstream; twice yours, so not blazingly fast, but adequate in a pinch. Depending on how far you are from your CO, though, there's no guarantee you'll be able to get that kind of DSL speed.

Personally, I actually use this functionality more to check NPL's remotely than to actually download anything.

Drew


----------



## gonzotek

Vandy04 said:


> 30 minute show on high quality, 1.02 GB downloaded in 6 hr 18 minutes some how i don't think that will make this much of a usable function unless i can get that speed up from it's average of 47.5 KB/Sec


I agree with everything azitnay just said, but thought I'd offer another way to 'get around' the bandwidth limitation. It's not nearly a 'great solution' but would make downloads quicker. You could have a pc on your home network running Galleon and have Galleon auto-downloading shows. From there, they can be converted into smaller mpeg4 files. Then they would take less time to transfer. Other people have also had success installing Galleon at the remote location and having it connect to their TiVo and auto-download things overnight, but that, I think, would require you to have the standard port 80 open and to be allowed to install Galleon wherever it is that you're connecting from (work may have a policy against things like Galleon, since it's technically a server software).


----------



## Vandy04

Thanks for both replys. I'm happy to hear that my speeds are not just exceptionally low. I guess I won't be downloading shows everynight or anything like that, but i suppose it will work if i'm really away or there is something in particular i'd like to watch when i know i won't be near my house. Right now I don't have an extra computer that I could use as gonzotek explains but that definitely seems like something i'll do once i'm finally out of school or if i run into some money. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## ashu

Vandy04 said:


> Thanks for both replys. I'm happy to hear that my speeds are not just exceptionally low. I guess I won't be downloading shows everynight or anything like that, but i suppose it will work if i'm really away or there is something in particular i'd like to watch when i know i won't be near my house. Right now I don't have an extra computer that I could use as gonzotek explains but that definitely seems like something i'll do once i'm finally out of school or if i run into some money. Thanks for the advice!


Look into ORB! The best and only way to leverage upstream and downstream capabilities/bandwidth that I've come across yet, to enjoy your videos, shows, music and pictures. I can actually watch tolerable renditions of video/shows on my cellphone, and have heard more than one complete Podcast on it too!

Orb
Orb's new TiVoAnywhere add-on discussion

The orb forums are cool too - I asked and someone suggested a way to get multiple TiVo's working - haven't tried it yet, but they're active there!


----------



## tivobaby

I've successfully used the information posted here to access my Tivo from work and when I am travelling on business. I have been able to view the "Now Playing" page and download programs from the internet by forwarding my home router ports 80 and 443.

Here's my million dollar question: Has anyone figured out URLs or links for other Tivo commands, such as *deleting* programs from the Tivo, revising Season Passes, etc.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## azitnay

No, the Now Playing interface is the only known web interface at this time.

Drew


----------



## kwkslva666

Is there any way for me to make my TiVo available remotely so I can access and download the media outside my home network? I am working with the Humax DVD-RW 80 Hour and a Series2 40 Hour.

Thanks :up:


----------



## morac

kwkslva666 said:


> Is there any way for me to make my TiVo available remotely so I can access and download the media outside my home network? I am working with the Humax DVD-RW 80 Hour and a Series2 40 Hour.
> 
> Thanks :up:


If you make the TiVo's http and https servers (ports 80 and 443) available to the Internet you can use TiVo's web interface to download shows. With most home connections this isn't very practical though since even a half hour show is around 800 MB which would take a long time to send even with 384 or 768 kbps upload speeds.


----------



## wgary

try http://DVREverywhere.com which is based on the Orb network -- http://orb.com
This doesn't download the files but does allow streaming from your Tivo Server to any Windows Media-enabled device.


----------



## Lyme Greene

I've got 2 tivos. I opened up 80 and 443 and set it to one and it works. How do I get to the other? I tried 180 and 1443, but it doesn't work. I'm using Comcast in NJ, router is Linksys WRT54GS firmware v4.70.6. Thanks in advance.


----------



## morac

Lyme Greene said:


> I've got 2 tivos. I opened up 80 and 443 and set it to one and it works. How do I get to the other? I tried 180 and 1443, but it doesn't work. I'm using Comcast in NJ, router is Linksys WRT54GS firmware v4.70.6. Thanks in advance.


What you would need to do is redirect a different set of inbound ports (say 180 and 1443) to ports 80 and 443 on your 2nd TiVo.

With the stock firmware in the Linksys WRT54GS there is no (practical) way to do this. You can use the UPNP setup in Windows XP to make a temporary mapping from a WAN port on the linksys to a LAN port on your network which will work, but these will go away if the router resets.

Some 3rd party firmware allows remapping of ports, but not the official firmware from Linksys.

Another option is to remote login to a PC on your local network and setup the transfer from there, but that requires a PC to be on at all times.


----------



## kwkslva666

I know I sound ignorant, but how exactly would I do so. I an relatively new this whole process and have much to learn. Could you walk me through the steps to make these ports available?

Much Obliged!


----------



## ashu

Read the rest of this thread  Stop and try it when you think you've gotten it, or you'll encounter MUCH repetition.


----------



## bouffoc

If you've used Tivo Desktop and Parental controls together, you know that it's necessary to completely turn off parental controls AT THE TIVO before TD allows downloads.

With the web interface, as you know the now playing list requires the USER: tivo PASS: [MAK] then if Parental Controls are off TD allows downloads. However the first time I tried to download via web-server from my tivo with Parental Controls active, I received another login screen parenthetically mentioning Parental Controls.

USER: tivo (obviously)

PASS:...
I tried the MAK.- NO GO
I tried my Parental Controls 4-digit code - NO GO
Then it dawned on me: MAK + PC Code - voila!

Now for the advantage I mentioned: the parental controls at the television remain active!

I don't know yet whether I'll need my PC code to view on my computer, though I'm guessing I will.


----------



## leducjjr

Just used this new feature to log into my Tivo and d/l a couple of shows. Transfer took roughly same amount of time, no surprise, but the really nice thing is I didn't have to fiddle with the Tivo Desktop software. Sometimes it takes awhile for this software to load up and I often have to maually clear the cache in orfer to see all the shows. 

I did have some trouble with the d/l "hanging" and needed to restart one of them a couple of times. The Tivo was being used for recording and viewing while the d/l ran and my kids were playing an online game at the time (different pc, same network) so there are a number of factors to consider in my experience here.

This is cool idea, ignoring the "hung d/l" issue. Now with the html and xml interface I can start coding automated, scheduled runs to pick up shows before they roll off (40 hr drive, small I know but I bought the small Tivo option with the intent of using my network HD as the long-term media storage anyways).

I used the directshow dump utility taken from a well-known site to convert the tivo to mpg and can play the show I d/l from the web interface. No need to enter MAK for the conversion or playback.


----------



## juanian

I'm all for writing things myself, but I use the free app Galleon to do my automated downloads. You can configure Galleon ToGo with rules that determine what programs are automatically downloaded to whatever drive location you specify. Here is a link to the short Galleon ToGo Tutorial which gives a very quick overview of the downloading options. (FYI: Part of the support website has recently moved to http://galleon.tv .)

I have been using Galleon 1.9.2, but the current version is now Galleon 2.0.1.

There is an automatic transcoding option with the Galleon GoBack feature, but I haven't used it.

As for your "hanging" problem, I'm not sure exactly what the cause is. Are you using a wireless network? Is it hanging at the end, or at different times in the middle? (Depending on caching issues, the download status might display at the end of the status line, but completing the write of the cached file to your hard drive might take a while.)

Good luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of saving TiVo programs!


----------



## leducjjr

Ah many thanks for the info. I'll look into this now.

Regarding the hanging issue it turns out I was being greedy and selected more than one show to download at a time. Once I scaled it down to one show at a time the transfer completed with no issue.


----------



## shalom

When I used Desktop 2.2 I couldn't get the DVD's to burn - I was told that some are having problems with 2.2 and I should go back to 2.0 which I did.
That worked until Friday, now I start a download and it downloads about 7 kb and generates an error. I have reinstalled the software, tried it on a different computer and reset the TIVO all with the same results.

TIVO said to try Desktop 2.1, but I have no way of getting that version.

I tried the web version - the now playing list displays and I click on the download link. It acts like it is going to download, but just sits there.

I am getting desperate, I have several show I need to download.

I am using Win XP home.

Parental controls are off.

Any ideas?


----------



## leducjjr

To be perfectly honest, once I d/l and set up the Galleon app juanian suggested earlier in this thread I never went back to Desktop. Galleon is really just that good. 

I use a freeware Directshow Dump app to convert the offloaded .tivo file to .mpg then I either burn to DVD using my fav DVD proggie. Actually I take it one step further and run DivX's converter to make a DivX-compatible file, then burn to disk. That way the files are smaller than the .tivo and .mpg files, and they play nicely on my DivX-enabled DVD player.

An internet search for the phrase "Directshow Dump" will yield some good results regarding which program to use to convert a .tivo file to a mpg file. (HINT: ignore the "watched folders" option that can be enabled in the freewre app - it doesn't work and Galleon does this for you anyway)

My suggestion is to d/l and install and configure the Galleon app - the nicest thing about it is its ability to accept "download rules" whereby I can download my "Futurama"s or shows with the word "monkey" in the title or description automagically.

Hope this helps. I can't assist on support for either the DSD or the Galleon app, but the online help for both programs is very good.


----------



## Visitor_email

ml98133 said:


> Yay!
> I found a way to fix files that I had downloaded with wget with broken chunk encoding.
> 
> Here's a script...it is too slow and uses too much processor time:
> sed -e :a -e '$!N;$!N;s/\r\n[0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\r\n//;ta' -e 'P;D'"$1" > temp.file
> sed '/[0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\r$/d' temp.file > "$1.fix.TiVo"
> 
> I also have a perl script, which is much faster (reasonable). If anyone needs it, send me a message. (I doubt this is a common problem, so I won't bother posting the script.)


Hi:

I did a little bit more research after looking at ml98133's post about the wget problems. Here are my findings:

Basically as you probably all know, Tivo will send the files using chunk encoding and to my surprise only very new versions of wget will support chunk encoding, none of these are included in most of the latest distributions of linux, needless to say they are not on cygwin either. So basically if you use wget, chances are you will use a version that does not support chunk encoding which means that it will ignore the chunk encoding header and will leave the meta data for chunks in the file itself creating files that Tivo does not recognize. The chunk encoding is easy to parse, basically it has the length of the chunk as an hexadecimal number followed by CR/LF and then the actual data followed by CR/LF also. You just need to write a program that does that and in a few seconds (even if they are 800Mb or larger) you should be able to fix your files (reading chunks once you have the size is quite fast in any language) I am assuming that is what ml98133 is doing with his perl script. Anyway, there is one easier solution, just use CURL  curl actually supports chunk encoding and it is pretty similar to wget. Using curl you don't have to do any file manipulation, your files end up ready to go.

Hope this info is useful.

Of course, I have to thank ml98133 for his post; I thought that using wget was not going to be possible 

Thanks!


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## azitnay

Hmm... It's my understanding that wget still sends HTTP/1.0 requests, and Content-Transfer-Encoding: chunked wasn't introduced until HTTP/1.1.

So, I'd blame the TiVo, not wget, for the problem you're seeing, if it is indeed chunking the response to an HTTP/1.0 request.

Drew


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## JacksTiVo

Thanks for the referral to the Direct Show Dump Utility. The latest version of the utility is at: http://prish.com/etivo/downloads/DSD0.1.1424/Dsd0.1.1424.0.msi . Since there have been many complaints about Sonic, I was reluctant to purchase it. I use WinDVD Creator for editing and burning DVD's and have been very happy with it.


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## Capn Jack

I just searched this whole thread to see if someone had found how to see Season's Passes or Wishlists. It will be useful as more and more upgrade to S3 but still no ideas. Hmmm.


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## hyachts

Just an interesting sidenote: it appears that Comcast is blocking ports 180 and 280 in my service area (Nashua, NH). I had to go with 8080 mapped to 80 to get to my second Tivo from outside my network. I couldn't find any useful info on those ports, anyone else know anything about them or why they'd be blocked? It took me a little bit to figure out what was going on because the https interface was working fine forwarded from 1443 - it wasn't until I tried adding the :180 to the download URL that I had problems.


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## azitnay

They leave port 80 open, but block 180 and 280? That's pretty random.

IANA lists port 180 as ris (Intergraph), and port 280 as http-mgmt. I doubt either one gets used for its intended purpose too often.

Drew


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## ashu

All this reminds me - I've been trying to find a VPN-capable router I can use to occasionally telecommute, picked up two Linksys units in a row (WRV54G and BEFSX41) only to discover they lack PAT+NAT capabilities! That even my ANCIENT (3+ years old) DLink has!

eg: Public port 1234 to private IP 192.168.0.21:5678 is not allowed - I MUST use port 1234 on the local system. Sheesh! I guess they moved all the real worthwhile features up to Cisco products! Too bad, I rturned them and went with a cheaper, nicer, faster (hardware VPN) DLink 804-HSV (pity the SMCBR14VPN has been discontinued!  )


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## hyachts

I had to flash my Linksys with DD-WRT firmware to manage the "advanced" forwarding required. I have that router (w/ wireless) behind a Linksys VoIP router (no wireless) so I have to forward twice. Weird that the Linksys w/ phone adapter had forwarding, the wireless did not.


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## ashu

hyachts said:


> I had to flash my Linksys with DD-WRT firmware to manage the "advanced" forwarding required. I have that router (w/ wireless) behind a Linksys VoIP router (no wireless) so I have to forward twice. Weird that the Linksys w/ phone adapter had forwarding, the wireless did not.


Agreed, 3rd Party firmwares support a vastly improved/competitive feature-set. Unfortunately, my sysadmin at work is uncomfortable with letting us do that to VPN gateways - so I decided to get a router that supported VPN & the NAT/PAT capabilities I wanted, out of the box, or with an approved, factory firmware upgrade! The DLink and SMCs definitely do - Linksys' loss


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## azitnay

hyachts said:


> I had to flash my Linksys with DD-WRT firmware to manage the "advanced" forwarding required. I have that router (w/ wireless) behind a Linksys VoIP router (no wireless) so I have to forward twice. Weird that the Linksys w/ phone adapter had forwarding, the wireless did not.


FYI, you can probably simplify your network configuration by switching the wireless router to operate in "access point only" mode (or if it doesn't support it automatically like my Belkin does, simulate it by turning off DHCP and NAT and using one of the LAN ports instead of the WAN port to connect to the VoIP rouer). That's what I do, since I use the Verizon-supplied Westell 2200 as our router (it doubles as the DSL modem, so it has to be involved no matter what).

Of course, if it ain't broke don't fix it... I just find it's much easier to only have to worry about one layer between me and the internet.

Drew


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## ashu

Excellent suggestion (if it isn't already that way) for hyachts, and applicable in most situations!

Although I plan to keep my for-work PC on the outer (VPN) router, and my home network unchanged 'behind' it, with my nice & robust wireless bridging setup unmodified. I'm moving the Vonage device to the outside to test & play with QoS (only the new DLink supports it), although I have enough bandwidth that it is usually a non-issue.


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## hyachts

I haven't tried using the wireless as a switch since I got the new(er) Vonage router (the old one had spotty port forwarding - see my troubles over a year ago in this same thread). I expect it would work just fine, but I think I'm going to stick with this configuration as long as it doesn't give me trouble. 

I haven't had to monkey with my Vonage quality since I moved it outside my router, but I think the DD-WRT firmware supports QoS so I suppose I could also get back to one "layer" by putting the phone adapter behind the router again.


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## mrlopez8

It sure would be nice if we could a web browser to access the files on the series 3 TiVos.


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## classicsat

mrlopez8 said:


> It sure would be nice if we could a web browser to access the files on the series 3 TiVos.


It should come when T2G is enabled on that DMR.


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## morac

classicsat said:


> It should come if T2G is enabled on that DMR.


fixed


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## nirmelamoud

for some reason, the web access (nowplaying) is not working any more, it worked in the past, I'm using the username tivo, and my MAK, and it fail to authenticate, 
I'm sure my MAK is the right one, since I looked in the site, and tivo desktop work with it, 
do you have an idea how to solve it?

is some tivo SW upgrade cause this?


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## windracer

Try rebooting your TiVo (although if TiVo Desktop is working like you say, the web interface should work as well).

The web-based access still works for me ...


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## morac

That can happen if you set a parental code (or possible Kid Zone). Then the password changes to the MAK plus the 4 digit code.


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## TokyoShoe

classicsat said:


> It should come when T2G is enabled on that DMR.


Man I wish they would actually enable T2G on the Series 3's. It is actually a labelled feature on the box that they advertise, and it isn't even turned ON yet!


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