# Breaking Bad S05E05 "Dead Freight" OAD 08/12/12



## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

Holy sh*t. What an ending! I never, ever would have seen that coming. 

I loved the methylamine heist, although I don't see how the train dudes could have missed the sound of the gas generator used to run the pump. 

Overall, a good "season 5" episode 

Brad


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I absolutely love that Jesse has become the 'idea man' of the operation. Who knew?


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

So Landry is a serial killer...



bsnelson said:


> Holy sh*t. What an ending! I never, ever would have seen that coming.


As soon as I saw that kid I was like well he's going to die.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Who did Lydia call towards the end of the episode?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

David Platt said:


> I absolutely love that Jesse has become the 'idea man' of the operation. Who knew?


Also the conscience of the group.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

bsnelson said:


> I loved the methylamine heist, although I don't see how the train dudes could have missed the sound of the gas generator used to run the pump.


Their loco was still running and the generater was 814 feet away, so it likely wouldn't be heard over the drone of the loco.

Now I'm starting to dislike Walt for jeapordizing the entire operation just to get to 10,000 gallons of methylamine. I'm sure 9000 would have been just fine giving everyone time to detach and close up the tank.

The problem I now see is what do that do with the little kid? They can't leave him there since the fuzz could easily find the methylamine tanks and evidence of a heist. So they're going to have to do something about that.

And Todd? Wow... he really wants to be part of this crew. Now they have no choice but to bring him in. I think that's a good move in the long run to have more muscle like Mike around willing to do the dirty work.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

BradJW said:


> Who did Lydia call towards the end of the episode?


She called Walt - presumably to tell him which train car the methylamine was in - although it seems like they already knew, or they just got really lucky that the car they needed ended up on the bridge.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

BradJW said:


> Who did Lydia call towards the end of the episode?


Before the heist? She was calling Mike/Walt to tell them which tanker had the methylamine. ICBW, but I don't remember her calling anyone after that.

ETA: Yeah, that was 100% pure luck that the tanker was so close to the bridge. And the position of the tanker was the stopping proper distance to the front of the train and the stalled truck.

Although I suppose they could have come up with some other ruse to stop the train further down the track if they needed.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Hank said:


> Their loco was still running and the generater was 814 feet away, so it likely wouldn't be heard over the drone of the loco.
> 
> Now I'm starting to dislike Walt for jeapordizing the entire operation just to get to 10,000 gallons of methylamine. I'm sure 9000 would have been just fine giving everyone time to detach and close up the tank.
> 
> ...


Now what about the kid? Someone is going to miss him, they'll send out a search party, which will lead to either a body or the in ground tanks or the 'good' samaritan, who will recount the events of the truck 'stalled' on the tracks, which will lead to the truck driver, it just goes on and on. Poor kid, poor Walt and crew. The end is in sight.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

NJ_HB said:


> Now what about the kid? Someone is going to miss him, they'll send out a search party, which will lead to either a body or the in ground tanks or the 'good' samaritan, who will recount the events of the truck 'stalled' on the tracks, which will lead to the truck driver, it just goes on and on. Poor kid, poor Walt and crew. The end is in sight.


Not if they dump the body somewhere totally unrelated.

Very shocking ending.

And it's pretty brilliant of them to cast the guy from Friday Night Lights. I was totally expecting him to be a "good guy." Just because, so far, that's the kind of role he's played.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I didn't see that ending coming either. Great episode


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

I'm thinking the kid gets buried in the holes they've already excavated for the tanks. I assume they'll have to take the tanks out of the ground to remove evidence of the heist.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Great episode.

They're setting up Hank and Marie to be good parents for Holly once Walt and Skyler are gone.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

In the one hand, I was on the edge of my seat and thoroughly entertained throughout the episode. On the other, as I watched the mechanics of the heist (the timing, the tools needed, hooking up the tubes, etc), I couldn't help but be taken out of the moment by how wildly unrealistic it was, surpassing even the Great Magnet Caper. Jessie knew exactly what to do under the tanker as though it was old hat. Everything went off like clockwork in a satisfying yet credulity-straining way. It was as though it had been planned, prepped, and rehearsed over months, rather than part of a week. So far this season we've seen the magnet mission, the great train robbery, and the AED; all which shouldn't have worked the way they did but which seem to be there for sheer storytelling and entertainment purposes. Not that I'm complaining, necessarily; as I said, I was very entertained. It just seems like these types of moments have been served up at a rapid clip of late.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I mention these things only because I agree with danterner and they stand out to me. They do not however cause me any issues with enjoying the show.

Sooooooooooooooooo Lydia didn't plant the GPS. Fine. I gotta say though that other DEA office has some ****ty effing GPS equipment. 

The dirt they kept kicking into the tanks

The little pump that could, ie, the water pump. It appeared that Walt didn't start the water pump until he had a certain amount of methylamine, which they explained in the show, the less dense methylamine, fine, but I'm supposed to believe that the little water pump could pump as much water up 30 vertical feet as opposed to the methylamine flowing down?

The shot that killed the kid. The way they showed that was fine story telling, but only the very very best handgun sharpshooters can make a shot like that.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

SeanC said:


> I mention these things only because I agree with danterner and they stand out to me. They do not however cause me any issues with enjoying the show.
> 
> Sooooooooooooooooo Lydia didn't plant the GPS. Fine. I gotta say though that other DEA office has some ****ty effing GPS equipment.
> 
> ...


The dirt in the pump bothered me too, but thinking about it, it's possible the tank had an outershell and an innershell (with a much smaller hole). The dirt may have falled on the inner shell, but still not have gone in the tank.

Otherwise, that's 1000 gallons wasted.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Hank said:


> ...
> Now I'm starting to dislike Walt for jeapordizing the entire operation just to get to 10,000 gallons of methylamine. I'm sure 9000 would have been just fine giving everyone time to detach and close up the tank.
> ...


It's 1000 gallons.



Story Sync said:


> graphic: by the numbers
> 
> the train robbery
> Tank Capacity: 24,000 Gallons (equivalent of average home swimming pool)
> ...


I thought they had planned to come back and use the tank for refills when needs but they can use Todd's tankler truck to get all 1000 gallons out and put the kid in the hole.

With all of the planning, Walt didn't bring a chem mask?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

SeanC said:


> I mention these things only because I agree with danterner and they stand out to me. They do not however cause me any issues with enjoying the show.
> 
> Sooooooooooooooooo Lydia didn't plant the GPS. Fine. I gotta say though that other DEA office has some ****ty effing GPS equipment.


I have a real Garmin tracker. It has to have a view of the sky and it can only update its location about every 15 minutes if you want the battery to last a couple of days.

It's also a lot smaller than the one they showed. About the size of a pack of gum.

(My dog managed to dump the $150 thing somewhere in the back yard.)


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Oh, hey, for comparisons sake, how many gallons were the barrels in the warehouse? 60?


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Hank said:


> Now I'm starting to dislike Walt for jeapordizing the entire operation just to get to 10,000 gallons of methylamine. I'm sure 9000 would have been just fine giving everyone time to detach and close up the tank.


That's 1,000 gallons. The last digit on the meter is tenths of a gallon.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

SeanC said:


> The dirt they kept kicking into the tanks


I thought the same thing. At first I figured they would explain it away as the tank having a screen or in a later episode they'll show Walt filtering out the dirt (couldn't you just pump from the top and the sand will sink?).

However, they seemed to be making a point of showing it - multiple times - and thats three of us that noticed it. This might be a plot point. I wonder if they will find the dirt in the watered down shipment.

The last scene was flat out amazing. Old school Breaking Bad right there. The spider in the jar just adding to the anguish and sadness of the scene. Walt and Jesse told the guy "nobody can know" so they can't blame him for making sure of that!

On another point, this will be the end of Jesse's cooperation I think. He has been disagreeing with Walt and Mike all season about the violence and now a kids blood is on his hands. Turning point for his character I bet.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

The tanks in the ground seemed like a waste of time to me. Why not have 2 tanker trucks and go directly from the truck tank to the train tank?

The only good reason I can think of was they wouldn't want the trucks to be seen by the guys on the train. Ok, I can understand that, but I bet they could have parked them directly under the tracks and been completely invisible.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

danterner said:


> In the one hand, I was on the edge of my seat and thoroughly entertained throughout the episode. On the other, as I watched the mechanics of the heist (the timing, the tools needed, hooking up the tubes, etc), I couldn't help but be taken out of the moment by how wildly unrealistic it was, surpassing even the Great Magnet Caper. Jessie knew exactly what to do under the tanker as though it was old hat. Everything went off like clockwork in a satisfying yet credulity-straining way. It was as though it had been planned, prepped, and rehearsed over months, rather than part of a week. So far this season we've seen the magnet mission, the great train robbery, and the AED; all which shouldn't have worked the way they did but which seem to be there for sheer storytelling and entertainment purposes. Not that I'm complaining, necessarily; as I said, I was very entertained. It just seems like these types of moments have been served up at a rapid clip of late.


Those kind of tank cars are pretty standard. They could have gone to any tank car spotted anywhere on a track and learned everything they needed to know in about 10 minutes. Unused tank cars are spotted on storage tracks in many places. And, the adapter for that kind of hose is a standard adapter for tank cars, from what I've seen.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

SeanC said:


> Oh, hey, for comparisons sake, how many gallons were the barrels in the warehouse? 60?


I would assume they were your standard 50 gallon drum. So, they just got 20 barrels worth.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

danterner said:


> In the one hand, I was on the edge of my seat and thoroughly entertained throughout the episode. On the other, as I watched the mechanics of the heist (the timing, the tools needed, hooking up the tubes, etc), I couldn't help but be taken out of the moment by how wildly unrealistic it was, surpassing even the Great Magnet Caper. Jessie knew exactly what to do under the tanker as though it was old hat. Everything went off like clockwork in a satisfying yet credulity-straining way. It was as though it had been planned, prepped, and rehearsed over months, rather than part of a week. So far this season we've seen the magnet mission, the great train robbery, and the AED; all which shouldn't have worked the way they did but which seem to be there for sheer storytelling and entertainment purposes. Not that I'm complaining, necessarily; as I said, I was very entertained. It just seems like these types of moments have been served up at a rapid clip of late.


BB is not supposed to be a "realistic' show so if you are looking for things to all line up in a way that could/would happen in real life the show will disappoint. Vince Gilligan has stated in interviews that it is hyper realistic story telling.

They are going for over the top jaw dropping stories.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

NJ_HB said:


> Now what about the kid? Someone is going to miss him, they'll send out a search party, which will lead to either a body or the in ground tanks or the 'good' samaritan, who will recount the events of the truck 'stalled' on the tracks, which will lead to the truck driver, it just goes on and on. Poor kid, poor Walt and crew. The end is in sight.


It's entirely possible that the kid's body won't be found. Maybe the tarantula in the jar will be found. What they should do is drive the kid into Mexico down that secret dirt road so it gets chalked up as one more Mexican drug cartel killing.

The end is sight with Jesse and Mike bugging out of the "Empire."

Hank's DEA office is going to have an IT Pro spotting the Ethernet dongle on his PC, then they'll sweep for the bug, and Hank will remember that Walt had the picture in his hands... _(Look close. Hank had a USB key logger on his PC already._) 

...and then Walt's riches with the car wash, the cars and the watch, and Skyler not loving him, saying he's a bad father (thinking he's putting the kids at risk.)

With that Hank is going to figure it out.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

netringer said:


> It's entirely possible that the kid's body won't be found. Maybe the tarantula in the jar will be found. What they should do is drive the kid into Mexico so down that secret dirt road so it gets chalked up as one more Mexican drug cartel killing.
> 
> The end is sight with Jesse and Mike bugging out of the "Empire."
> 
> ...


And then Hank will die.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I think off-screen Walt would return to Hank's office to remove the network dongle. And the bug's battery will drain pretty quickly. How often do you think the IT people are going to be messing with Hank's PC if it's working fine?

I liked how they made that part realistic believable. 

I'm also OK with the great train robbery except for getting their tanker to stop right over the bridge. If it were one or two cars away, I doubt they had enough hose and pump power to do the swap. 


I can see why Mike is around to keep the 'legacy pay' flowing, but why is Jesse still hanging around Walt? He's got plenty of money, he could just disappear. Maybe as stated above Mike and Jesse will split, and it will be down to Walt and Todd -- two seriously messed up dudes.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

The only real problem I have with the train is that it could not have possibly stopped in the distance from where the engineer saw the truck and the guy waving. Especially with full freight and tank cars.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> And Todd? Wow... he really wants to be part of this crew. Now they have no choice but to bring him in. I think that's a good move in the long run to have more muscle like Mike around willing to do the dirty work.


Walt made it very clear that nobody else could know about the heist or the tanks in the ground. Todd was just doing as he was told.

So you'd expect someone would know roughly where the kid was going to ride. So when he doesn't come home, and they go looking for him, they're going to find the buried tanks. So it seems Walt and crew have to get the tanks out of there ASAP. Hopefully they planned for that.


mrdbdigital said:


> The only real problem I have with the train is that it could not have possibly stopped in the distance from where the engineer saw the truck and the guy waving. Especially with full freight and tank cars.


I was thinking that as well. It would make more sense if the bridge were 814 yards back from the crossing rather than 814 feet, but even still, trains take a long time to stop. They should have shown the engineers seeing the dump truck and applying the brakes long before they crossed that bridge, but that's clearly not what happened.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Walt made it very clear that nobody else could know about the heist or the tanks in the ground. Todd was just doing as he was told.


No, he mis-interpreted what Walt said.. when he said nobody else can know, it was meaning that Todd can't speak of it to anyone. Not to go killing witnesses rambo style without direction from the leaders of the group.



DevdogAZ said:


> So you'd expect someone would know roughly where the kid was going to ride. So when he doesn't come home, and they go looking for him, they're going to find the buried tanks. So it seems Walt and crew have to get the tanks out of there ASAP. Hopefully they planned for that.


If they moved the kid and camouflaged the tank lids well enough (as they had already done), there's no reason to think anyone would find them buried in the ground. Even still, the kid's route, assuming that even was his regular route, was on the other side of the tracks. It looks like he goes mountain biking in the desert all the time. No telling which trails he would take that particular day.

I'd say they leave the tanks there and go get the methylamine when they need more. If they remove the tanks, they're going to have to find some other secure place to store 1000 gallons of the stuff undetected. The "dead zone" seems like a pretty good hiding place to me.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

mrdbdigital said:


> Those kind of tank cars are pretty standard. They could have gone to any tank car spotted anywhere on a track and learned everything they needed to know in about 10 minutes. Unused tank cars are spotted on storage tracks in many places. And, the adapter for that kind of hose is a standard adapter for tank cars, from what I've seen.


Those are fair points. I'm going to assume that's what they did, and we just didn't get to see the typical prep montage (those are cliched, anyway).



Johnny Dancing said:


> BB is not supposed to be a "realistic' show so if you are looking for things to all line up in a way that could/would happen in real life the show will disappoint. Vince Gilligan has stated in interviews that it is hyper realistic story telling.
> 
> They are going for over the top jaw dropping stories.


Very true. And they set the bar early on - I think the acid bathtub scene is what really hooked me on the show, and I've never been disappointed by an episode -- I even liked Fly. Hyper-reality is the norm, I suppose; whether it is the acid tub, or planes colliding, or Gus-splosions, I guess stuff like that is always happening in this show; not sure why I'm feeling that it's amped up of late: maybe it really has been consistent throughout.

Unrelated musings:

1. Now that the methylamine supply issue is solved, is Lydia still needed? Or do they still need her, because they'll need to re-up with new train robberies periodically and so they need her dead zone intel?

2. How does the economy of meth work, anyhow? Are they going to flood the market, increasing supply and driving prices lower? Or are they going to expand their market and distribute to a wider area? Or is there a limitless demand for meth, and they won't have to adjust their prices? Or are they still limited by how much they can cook in a batch by the tent-house setup but they now just don't have a methylamine bottleneck on top of that? If Walt's empire is expanding, I wonder if we'll wind up seeing him go toe to toe with the Gusses of other regions of the country.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Hank said:


> The "dead zone" seems like a pretty good hiding place to me.


Where is the "dead zone" again? If it's not local to them it adds traveling costs, also the tanker may have to cross state lines. I remember her saying it passes near them. I don't remember where that was.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Except for the end, this was a pretty fun episode (fun relative to the world of BB). This reminded me a little of the "money train" caper in The Shield - mostly just that there was a decision made along the lines of "screw the small stuff, let's rob a train."

I didn't really have a problem with the logistics of the robbery. Sure, it couldn't have happened exactly like that, but it's TV. They knew where that car was in the train and how long the train was via Lydia, they knew where they had to stop the train, etc. I assume they found a tanker car somewhere to practice on a couple of times.

I was sure that Lydia didn't plant that tracking device on the barrel, but I didn't expect that it was local Houston cops, which didn't make a lot of sense.

Speaking of not making sense, Skylar's master plan to keep the children safe still makes no sense, but I went into enough detail on my thoughts on that topic on last week's thread that I won't do it again. It doesn't make any more sense now. Looks like Hank and Marie will be raising baby Holly without knowing why.

Walt/Jesse/Mike would be a lot better off if Todd hadn't shot that kid. Moral issues aside, now they've got a body to deal with and there will be a search for the boy. If they'd just told him to run along, it's doubtful anything would have come from it. Maybe they try to remove the tanks, maybe they just put dirt and plants over them and leave them there. It's not clear what the kid actually saw, if anything, other than seeing them. They can't do the train heist repeatedly, anyway, so even if someone eventually finds the tanks, it shouldn't matter much to them.

Seems like Walt risked a lot by bugging Hank's office. Nice short-term gain, but longer term, this stuff will be found, and I can see this being what finally clues Hank in that Walt's his guy.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> It would make more sense if the bridge were 814 yards back from the crossing rather than 814 feet, but even still, trains take a long time to stop.


Did they actually say it was 814 feet? I just remember them counting and don't recall if they mentioned units. Also, didn't they start counting from the right? I remember Jessie approaching the bridge from the right, which would have been the opposite direction on the track from the crossing.

The train only had a couple more cars from the methylamine car, which would make it a rather short freight train (if indeed it was only 814 feet to the locomotive at the crossing).


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

robojerk said:


> Where is the "dead zone" again? If it's not local to them it adds traveling costs, also the tanker may have to cross state lines. I remember her saying it passes near them. I don't remember where that was.


I don't know for sure, but Lydia did say something like "it passes right through your state". Since ABQ is in the middle of NM, it's 290 miles to one corner, and 190 miles to the other. So that's really not that far to travel within the state.

And they can do it a few barrels at a time -- they won't need a tanker truck to do it, just a van or pickup truck.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> No, he mis-interpreted what Walt said.. when he said nobody else can know, it was meaning that Todd can't speak of it to anyone. Not to go killing witnesses rambo style without direction from the leaders of the group.


Obviously that's not what Walt meant. But from Todd's perspective, how else is he supposed to interpret that?



Hank said:


> If they moved the kid and camouflaged the tank lids well enough (as they had already done), there's no reason to think anyone would find them buried in the ground. Even still, the kid's route, assuming that even was his regular route, was on the other side of the tracks. It looks like he goes mountain biking in the desert all the time. No telling which trails he would take that particular day.
> 
> I'd say they leave the tanks there and go get the methylamine when they need more. If they remove the tanks, they're going to have to find some other secure place to store 1000 gallons of the stuff undetected. The "dead zone" seems like a pretty good hiding place to me.


I think the kid's route took him through the wash they were in, which meant riding underneath that bridge. That's why he was stopped just on the other side, because Walt and crew were in his way.

If a search party begins combing that trail, the chances that they find the buried tanks, with the lids only a couple inches under the ground, is pretty good. If they could somehow bury the tanks deeper so the lids aren't so close to the surface, that would make more sense, but to bury them deeper at this point would be more difficult than just removing them.


danterner said:


> Very true. And they set the bar early on - I think the acid bathtub scene is what really hooked me on the show, and I've never been disappointed by an episode -- I even liked Fly. Hyper-reality is the norm, I suppose; whether it is the acid tub, or planes colliding, or Gus-splosions, I guess stuff like that is always happening in this show; not sure why I'm feeling that it's amped up of late: maybe it really has been consistent throughout.


They actually talked about that in one of the recent podcasts, how it would make a great episode of Mythbusters to test some of the more outlandish things they've done in this series to see if they're really possible.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

nataylor said:


> Did they actually say it was 814 feet? I just remember them counting and don't recall if they mentioned units. Also, didn't they start counting from the right? I remember Jessie approaching the bridge from the right, which would have been the opposite direction on the track from the crossing.


I think it's 814 feet. 814 yards is just short of half a mile. It would have taken them a while to walk that distance (not saying they didn't). 814 feet is still 2.7 football fields of length, and that seems about right.

As far as orientation, I think you just have it flipped in your head. That all made sense to me.

-> Train direction -->>>>
======|===|=============================|+++|======
- - - - Bridge - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Crossing
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <<< Jesse Walk direction <<<


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Where is the "dead zone" again? If it's not local to them it adds traveling costs, also the tanker may have to cross state lines. I remember her saying it passes near them. I don't remember where that was.


They were willing to have Jesse drive 900 miles to Houston to pick up one 55 gallon drum of the stuff, so driving a few hundred miles into the desert whenever they need a refill shouldn't be a big deal.


tivoboyjr said:


> I was sure that Lydia didn't plant that tracking device on the barrel, but I didn't expect that it was local Houston cops, which didn't make a lot of sense.


It wasn't local Houston cops. It was Hank's counterparts in the Houston office of the DEA. It was brought up in last week's thread how it was kind of strange that Hank and Gomie went all the way to Houston to meety Lydia and arrest that warehouse guy. Wouldn't they just have the local Houston DEA do that? Well, it looks like the local Houston DEA was involved, and they took initiative to track the barrels themselves.


nataylor said:


> Did they actually say it was 814 feet? I just remember them counting and don't recall if they mentioned units. Also, didn't they start counting from the right? I remember Jessie approaching the bridge from the right, which would have been the opposite direction on the track from the crossing.


No, they didn't say feet or yards or meters. But based on Mike's POV during the actual heist, there's no way Walt and crew were 814 yards away.

As for which direction Jesse approached the bridge from, it just depends on which side of the tracks the camera was on. They could make it look like either direction just by moving the camera to the other side of the tracks. But having said that, I thought it was pretty clear that the camera was always on the "south" side of the tracks (assuming the train is heading east) and that the crossing was east of the bridge.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> Their loco was still running and the generater was 814 feet away, so it likely wouldn't be heard over the drone of the loco.


Not only was the bridge 814 feet from the intersection, but Walt and the generator were beneath the bridge, so the embankment would also act as a natural sound barrier.

The opening scene with the kid on the dirtbike, I thought he was going to find Lydia's remains. Then when he picked up the tarantula, I thought he would find Lydia while looking through the jar. Then we heard the train blowing its horn in the distance. That's what drew him to the bridge, but I couldn't connect it until the end.

Wow!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> If a search party begins combing that trail, the chances that they find the buried tanks,


We'll have to agree to disagree then.. I don't think the chances are that great that anyone would find the buried tanks in the first place. And even if they did find two tanks buried in the desert near a train track, would they even think twice about them? Maybe abandoned water or gasoline storage tanks for the train route. Could be anything out there. If the tanks are closed up and locked, they'd just move on. Why would they suspect any foul play of two seemingly abandoned buried tanks in the desert with a kid who is never found? (He's a missing person at this point, not a homicide.)

Ok, lets say they do find the tanks, then what? First, they have to figure out what's in them. Second, they have to figure out how it got there. Third, when. There are real no links to Walt, et al other than the truck driver. So the police would have to go searching for some unknown/unnamed driver driving an unlabeled truck that got stuck on the tracks for 10 minutes. Once (if) they find him, he can just claim he doesn't know anything about the tanks.

It all adds up that it just doesn't matter that much in the few episodes they have left.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree then.. I don't think the chances are that great that anyone would find the buried tanks in the first place. And even if they did find two tanks buried in the desert near a train track, would they even think twice about them? Maybe abandoned water or gasoline storage tanks for the train route. Could be anything out there. If the tanks are closed up and locked, they'd just move on. Why would they suspect any foul play of two seemingly abandoned buried tanks in the desert with a kid who never found? (He's a missing person at this point, not a homicide.)
> 
> Ok, lets say they do find the tanks, then what? First, they have to figure out what's in them. Second, they have to figure out how it got there. Third, when. There are real no links to Walt, et al other than the truck driver. So the police would have to go searching for some unknown/unnamed driver driving an unlabeled truck that got stuck on the tracks for 10 minutes. Once they find him, he can just claim he doesn't know anything about the tanks.
> 
> It all adds up that it just doesn't matter that much in the few episodes they have left.


It's not a question of whether the discovery of the buried tanks will lead the authorities back to Walt. It's a question of if the buried tanks are found, then Walt and crew lose their supply of methylamine that they just worked so hard to get. Because the killing of the kid now makes the presence of search parties in that area more likely, they'll have to remove the methylamine if they want to ensure that it's kept safe.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> They were willing to have Jesse drive 900 miles to Houston to pick up one 55 gallon drum of the stuff, so driving a few hundred miles into the desert whenever they need a refill shouldn't be a big deal.


But how many more times can they do that? Once, maybe. Even thought no one may know about the actual heist, they can't keep stopping the train there without arousing some suspicions. So maybe at some point they have to kill the crew on the train, then it's over for sure. I realize they may have enough methylamine to last for the duration of the show - just trying to think it through.



DevdogAZ said:


> It wasn't local Houston cops. It was Hank's counterparts in the Houston office of the DEA. It was brought up in last week's thread how it was kind of strange that Hank and Gomie went all the way to Houston to meety Lydia and arrest that warehouse guy. Wouldn't they just have the local Houston DEA do that? Well, it looks like the local Houston DEA was involved, and they took initiative to track the barrels themselves.


OK, thanks. I wasn't sure about that - because it did seem like Hank's office was handling everything for the DEA.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

getreal said:


> ...The opening scene with the kid on the dirtbike, I thought he was going to find Lydia's remains. Then when he licked up the tarantula, I thought he would find Lydia while looking through the jar. Then we heard the train blowing its horn in the distance. That's what drew him to the bridge, but I couldn't connect it until the end.
> 
> Wow!


Ditto. I was waiting for a POV from the kid where he sees a body. Once again Gilligan takes a cliche' and turns it on it's head.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

What I'd like to know is how much methlymine they need per cook to produce 50lbs of meth. That would give us some indication of how long 1000 gallons would last. As far as we've seen, there has only been two cooks in the tents (yes, there were likely more). They started with 55 gallons of methlymine. They can't be using it that fast. The first barrel they stole in S01 lasted them a really long time. Remember they only intended to steal a few gallon bottles worth.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

A major point was Heisenberg thinking that once more his macho and superior intellect saved the day and he is invincible. Then the kid is there and gets shot.

Mike is going to quit because Walt didn't abort when he was told. Once again Mike will see that Walt is going to get him killed.

"There are two kinds of heists. With witnesses where everybody gets busted and with no witnesses where they get away with it."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> But how many more times can they do that? Once, maybe. Even thought no one may know about the actual heist, they can't keep stopping the train there without arousing some suspicions. So maybe at some point they have to kill the crew on the train, then it's over for sure. I realize they may have enough methylamine to last for the duration of the show - just trying to think it through.


I'm guessing the 1,000 gallons they stole was enough to last them for a year or more. As someone posted earlier in the thread, the AMC Story Sync thing said that was enough to make nearly $300 million worth of meth. Probably plenty enough for Walt and crew to retire on.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> What I'd like to know is how much methlymine they need per cook to produce 50lbs of meth. That would give us some indication of how long 1000 gallons would last. As far as we've seen, there has only been two cooks in the tents (yes, there were likely more). They started with 55 gallons of methlymine. They can't be using it that fast. The first barrel they stole in S01 lasted them a really long time. Remember they only intended to steal a few gallon bottles worth.


Look at netringer's post earlier in this thread. 1,000 gallons of methylamine is enough to cook 74,000 pounds of meth, worth $296 million.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Hank said:


> What I'd like to know is how much methlymine they need per cook to produce 50lbs of meth. That would give us some indication of how long 1000 gallons would last. As far as we've seen, there has only been two cooks in the tents (yes, there were likely more). They started with 55 gallons of methlymine. They can't be using it that fast. The first barrel they stole in S01 lasted them a really long time. Remember they only intended to steal a few gallon bottles worth.


Netringer posted already. 1000 gallons will yield 74,000 pounds of meth (I assume that's based on the 1000 gallons they got and not on the 24,000 gallons in the tank).


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm finding the logistics of the train robbery completely believeable. Firstly, it's a weekly train, taking the same track at the same speed and stopping at all the same working factories every week. The number of train cars and the type of train cars probably do not vary very much, if any.

Tanker cars are always the last ones on the train. I don't know why, but I have observed that it is so.

The guys were prepared with at least 100' of hose for water and methylene. That would probably have reached any of the four tanker cars in the train.

After Lydia had received the manifest, they would confirm the exact number of cars, hence the exact train length, plus the exact train weight. The train would always be travelling at the same speed through that twisty section of track, and the weight would allow you to calculate the exact stopping distance. They would also know which of the cars contained the methylene, and would have six hours or more to tweek the plan, or get any extra hose, or whatever.

Completely believable, especially for TV.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

netringer said:


> A major point was Heisenberg thinking that once more his macho and superior intellect saved the day and he is invincible. Then the kid is there and gets shot.
> 
> Mike is going to quit because Walt didn't abort when he was told. Once again Mike will see that Walt is going to get him killed.
> 
> "There are two kinds of heists. With witnesses where everybody gets busted and with no witnesses where they get away with it."


Yeah - to me its obvious where this is headed. Jesse is going to quit over moral issues and Mike is going to quit because he would rather be alive and not in jail. Crew falls apart, Skyler goes to Hank to confess, Walt goes nuts.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> I'm finding the logistics of the train robbery completely believeable. Firstly, it's a weekly train, taking the same track at the same speed and stopping at all the same working factories every week. The number of train cars and the type of train cars probably do not vary very much, if any.
> 
> Tanker cars are always the last ones on the train. I don't know why, but I have observed that it is so.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree. But I know that if someone gave me a hose and a wrench and some connector-thingies, and told me "you just have to get under the train and attach the hose to the bottom of the tank," I don't think I'd do it anywhere near as adeptly as Jesse. He made it look like it is something he's been doing for years. Maybe it actually isn't that hard to do. Or maybe he's practiced from hooking up the cooking apparatus, which is similar. Or maybe, as postulated above, they were able to scope things out and even try some dry runs on a different train in a storage yard somewhere.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> After Lydia had received the manifest, they would confirm the exact number of cars, hence the exact train length, plus the exact train weight. The train would always be travelling at the same speed through that twisty section of track, and the weight would allow you to calculate the exact stopping distance. They would also know which of the cars contained the methylene, and would have six hours or more to tweek the plan, or get any extra hose, or whatever.
> 
> Completely believable, especially for TV.


The only problem is that they did all of the measuring/planning before Lydia received the manifest. They planned for the tanker car to be on or near the bridge before Lydia called Walt with the manifest details. Maybe she gave them an estimate based on a previous manifest and that's where they got the 814 feet from.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

danterner said:


> I don't disagree. But I know that if someone gave me a hose and a wrench and some connector-thingies, and told me "you just have to get under the train and attach the hose to the bottom of the tank," I don't think I'd do it anywhere near as adeptly as Jesse. He made it look like it is something he's been doing for years. Maybe it actually isn't that hard to do. Or maybe he's practiced from hooking up the cooking apparatus, which is similar. Or maybe, as postulated above, they were able to scope things out and even try some dry runs on a different train in a storage yard somewhere.


I don't think there's any question that they practiced on a different tanker car somewhere. It would be incredibly stupid of them to attempt a heist like this without testing all of the systems first and making sure everything works, everyone knows how to do their jobs, everything can be done in the allotted time, etc. I suspect they used that pump/generator combo to test how long it would take to pump 920 gallons of water, etc. They obviously knew about the "secured" tags that went on the top/bottom openings of the tanker car and had backups with them to re-secure the openings so nobody would realize what happened. Todd had the exact size socket on his drill that he would need for opening that hatch at the top. Jesse had the exact coupling he was going to need to enable the hose to be attached to the tanker. Jesse knew that the methylamine wouldn't begin flowing out until he flipped that lever. In other words, I think it's pretty obvious that they practiced beforehand and knew exactly what they were doing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mike_k said:


> The only problem is that they did all of the measuring/planning before Lydia received the manifest. They planned for the tanker car to be on or near the bridge before Lydia called Walt with the manifest details. Maybe she gave them an estimate based on a previous manifest and that's where they got the 814 feet from.


Yeah, that was the only thing that was a little mysterious. Where did the 814 foot measurement come from? If that's where the tanker car was on previous trains, why would they assume that's where it was going to be on future trains?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I think the 814 feet is what they calculated to be the expected stopping distance of the train of that size at that speed, so they could plan where to put the tanks and stage the heist.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

mostman said:


> Yeah - to me its obvious where this is headed. Jesse is going to quit over moral issues and Mike is going to quit because he would rather be alive and not in jail. Crew falls apart, Skyler goes to Hank to confess, Walt goes nuts.


And it's going to be awesome to see.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Hank said:


> Their loco was still running and the generater was 814 feet away, so it likely wouldn't be heard over the drone of the loco.
> 
> Now I'm starting to dislike Walt for jeapordizing the entire operation just to get to 10,000 gallons of methylamine. I'm sure 9000 would have been just fine giving everyone time to detach and close up the tank.
> 
> ...


they had turned the diesel loco off. You see him insert the key and start it again at the end before they leave.

a lot of reality check issues with this....no way could they predict that the car would stop over the trestle. No way could they not hear the generator with the loco turned off. No way does that little pump supply enough head pressure to pump water into the tank car at anywhere near the same rate as the gravity valve let them have the methlamine.

but I still enjoyed it.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

netringer said:


> I have a real Garmin tracker. It has to have a view of the sky and it can only update its location about every 15 minutes if you want the battery to last a couple of days.
> 
> It's also a lot smaller than the one they showed. About the size of a pack of gum.
> 
> (My dog managed to dump the $150 thing somewhere in the back yard.)


LOL...so you LOST your GPS tracker?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I was wondering about how the kid got so close without them hearing his motorcycle. I guess the only way it could happen is if the kid came up while their pump was still on, drowning out the sound of the motorcycle (even then it seems like Mike should have seen and heard him approach). In which case the kid was sitting there for a while and must have seen most of what they were doing. So I think they only had two choices -- either kill the kid, or else quickly turn away (so the kid could not get a closer look at their faces), tie a scarf or something over their faces and run the kid off. Then get all of the methlyamine out of there immediately and hope the kid didn't get a good enough look at any of their faces to identify them. Because no way the kid doesn't tell everyone he knows about what he saw.

Also, I think they have to kill Lydia because when the authorities figure out the train heist (watered-down methylamine leads to talking to the train engineers who recall the weird situation at the crossing, which leads the authorities to the kid who witnessed it), they will know there was an insider to provide the needed intel to the thieves. They would figure out it was Lydia, and she, of course, would give up Mike, Walt, and Jesse.

So they had to either kill the kid, or kill Lydia and hope the kid could not provide a good enough description of them to the authorities.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> They were willing to have Jesse drive 900 miles to Houston to pick up one 55 gallon drum of the stuff, so driving a few hundred miles into the desert whenever they need a refill shouldn't be a big deal.
> 
> It wasn't local Houston cops. It was Hank's counterparts in the Houston office of the DEA. It was brought up in last week's thread how it was kind of strange that Hank and Gomie went all the way to Houston to meety Lydia and arrest that warehouse guy. Wouldn't they just have the local Houston DEA do that? Well, it looks like the local Houston DEA was involved, and they took initiative to track the barrels themselves.
> 
> ...


the type of measuring wheel Jesse used counts off feet. it was 814 feet.

IIRC Hank called the Houston FBI field office, THAT is who planted the GPS. Not uncommon for inter-agency communication to be piss poor.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> they had turned the diesel loco off. You see him insert the key and start it again at the end before they leave.


I'm going to look into this but I'm 99.999% sure they don't stop and start diesel locomotives like you do a car motor. Just because he took out a key does not mean he shut down the entire locomotive. For such a short stop, I'm sure they left it idling.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> I'm going to look into this but I'm 99.999% sure they don't stop and start diesel locomotives like you do a car motor. Just because he took out a key does not mean he shut down the entire locomotive. For such a short stop, I'm sure they left it idling.


I think you are right. Have you ever noticed at truck stops the truckers leave their diesel engines on for hours rather than stopping and starting them? I guess the same thing would apply to a diesel locomotive.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> I was wondering about how the kid got so close without them hearing his motorcycle. I guess the only way it could happen is if the kid came up while their pump was still on, drowning out the sound of the motorcycle (even then it seems like Mike should have seen and heard him approach). In which case the kid was sitting there for a while and must have seen most of what they were doing. So I think they only had two choices -- either kill the kid, or else quickly turn away (so the kid could not get a closer look at their faces), tie a scarf or something over their faces and run the kid off. Then get all of the methlyamine out of there immediately and hope the kid didn't get a good enough look at any of their faces to identify them. Because no way the kid doesn't tell everyone he knows about what he saw.
> 
> Also, I think they have to kill Lydia because when the authorities figure out the train heist (watered-down methylamine leads to talking to the train engineers who recall the weird situation at the crossing, which leads the authorities to the kid who witnessed it), they will know there was an insider to provide the needed intel to the thieves. They would figure out it was Lydia, and she, of course, would give up Mike, Walt, and Jesse.
> 
> So they had to either kill the kid, or kill Lydia and hope the kid could not provide a good enough description of them to the authorities.


They said the watered down methylmine would be blamed as a bad batch from the Chinese. They would have no need to investigate further.

The kid could have come from the opposite direction so nobody would have heard him approaching, so there's no telling how long he was there.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

john4200 said:


> I was wondering about how the kid got so close without them hearing his motorcycle. I guess the only way it could happen is if the kid came up while their pump was still on, drowning out the sound of the motorcycle (even then it seems like Mike should have seen and heard him approach). In which case the kid was sitting there for a while and must have seen most of what they were doing. So I think they only had two choices -- either kill the kid, or else quickly turn away (so the kid could not get a closer look at their faces), tie a scarf or something over their faces and run the kid off. Then get all of the methlyamine out of there immediately and hope the kid didn't get a good enough look at any of their faces to identify them. Because no way the kid doesn't tell everyone he knows about what he saw.
> 
> Also, I think they have to kill Lydia because when the authorities figure out the train heist (watered-down methylamine leads to talking to the train engineers who recall the weird situation at the crossing, which leads the authorities to the kid who witnessed it), they will know there was an insider to provide the needed intel to the thieves. They would figure out it was Lydia, and she, of course, would give up Mike, Walt, and Jesse.
> 
> So they had to either kill the kid, or kill Lydia and hope the kid could not provide a good enough description of them to the authorities.


Good points. They do have to kill Lydia. She's made it clear that she is devoted to her daughter so if it's a matter of her going to prison or turning in Walt/Jesse/Mike, she's turning them in. Plus, now that they've got their methylamine, they don't need her. She's also proven that she can and will put out hits, so they need to get to her first.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

SeanC said:


> The shot that killed the kid. The way they showed that was fine story telling, but only the very very best handgun sharpshooters can make a shot like that.


Maybe the gigantic workgloves helped to steady his aim. 



netringer said:


> I have a real Garmin tracker. ... (My dog managed to dump the $150 thing somewhere in the back yard.)


If only there was some sort of tracking device on your Garmin ... 



netringer said:


> ... and then Walt's riches with the car wash, the cars and the watch, and Skyler not loving him, saying he's a bad father (thinking he's putting the kids at risk.)
> 
> With that Hank is going to figure it out.


Having that scene with Walt showing off his watch to Hank, and saying that he bought it for himself, I believe that was a Chekhov's gun.

The watch will connect Jesse to Walt, and Hank doesn't forget a thing. He remembers Pinkman. The watch will be crucial in connecting the pieces of the puzzle in Hank's mind.



Hank said:


> ... and it will be down to Walt and Todd -- two seriously messed up dudes.


Todd is a loose cannon and will need to be dealt with. Mike, Walt & Jesse worked hard to plan the heist so as to avoid a body count, and I was surprised how open they were in sharing info with Todd.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> They said the watered down methylmine would be blamed as a bad batch from the Chinese. They would have no need to investigate further.
> 
> The kid could have come from the opposite direction so nobody would have heard him approaching, so there's no telling how long he was there.


Walt may have said that it would be blamed on the Chinese, but that is not what would actually happen.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say about the kid. Of course they would have heard his motorcyle, unless it was drowned out by the noise of the pump. In which case he could have been there for quite a while (the pump was turned off near the end, so he had to arrive before they turned it off). Which is what I wrote in my previous post.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

tivoboyjr said:


> Good points. They do have to kill Lydia. She's made it clear that she is devoted to her daughter so if it's a matter of her going to prison or turning in Walt/Jesse/Mike, she's turning them in. Plus, now that they've got their methylamine, they don't need her. She's also proven that she can and will put out hits, so they need to get to her first.


Walter wants to stop the hazard pay, but doesn't know who the 9 are. He needs her to either give him the info, or broker a deal with her to let her off the hook in exchange for hiring another hitman.



getreal said:


> Having that scene with Walt showing off his watch to Hank, and saying that he bought it for himself, I believe that was a Chekhov's gun.
> 
> The watch will connect Jesse to Walt, and Hank doesn't forget a thing. He remembers Pinkman. The watch will be crucial in connecting the pieces of the puzzle in Hank's mind.


Ohhhh! Good point..

Edit:But the only way to track the sale is if Jesse used a credit card, or if Hank looks into who bought the watch (but he would need a reason to). He would need to know the serial number of Walter's watch. Or by some chance Jesse left the sales receipt in his car, and Hank sees it.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Walt may have said that it would be blamed on the Chinese, but that is not what would actually happen.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say about the kid. Of course they would have heard his motorcyle, unless it was drowned out by the noise of the pump. In which case he could have been there for quite a while (the pump was turned off near the end, so he had to arrive before they turned it off). Which is what I wrote in my previous post.


As far as the methylmine nobody knows what "actually would happen" we can only go by what the show tells us, which is what I'm going on.

For the kid. exactly. We don't know how long he was there. He could have just arrived when they turned off the pump or he could have arrived when they turned it on. The pump was running during most of the heist. So they would not have heard him approach. So again, we have no way to tell how long he was there.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Walter wants to stop the hazard pay, but doesn't know who the 9 are. He needs her to either give him the info, or broker a deal with her to let her off the hook in exchange for hiring another hitman.
> 
> Ohhhh! Good point..
> 
> Edit:But the only way to track the sale is if Jesse used a credit card, or if Hank looks into who bought the watch (but he would need a reason to). He would need to know the serial number of Walter's watch. Or by some chance Jesse left the sales receipt in his car, and Hank sees it.


When Jesse handed the watch in the box to Walt, he said that the receipt was included, in case he wanted to exchange it for another one. So Walt has the receipt, but the sales clerk will not recognize Mr. White.

The watch is not suspicious yet, but I'm sure it will come up.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> For the kid. exactly. We don't know how long he was there. He could have just arrived when they turned off the pump or he could have arrived when they turned it on. The pump was running during most of the heist. So they would not have heard him approach. So again, we have no way to tell how long he was there.


Walt was sitting there in the creekbed looking back and forth between the pump and Jesse the whole time. You'd think he would have seen someone sitting there on the other side of the bridge, or would have noticed the movement in his peripheral vision. So I think based on the fact that he didn't see it, we have to assume that the kid just showed up as the train was pulling away and they were celebrating.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter. The kid saw them, saw the scene of the crime. Whether he was there for 30 seconds or 30 minutes, he had to be dealt with.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> When Jesse handed the watch in the box to Walt, he said that the receipt was included, in case he wanted to exchange it for another one. So Walt has the receipt, but the sales clerk will not recognize Mr. White.
> 
> The watch is not suspicious yet, but I'm sure it will come up.


I don't see why the watch is such a big deal. It's not like we're talking about a $100,000 watch that there's no way Walt could realistically afford. I just looked it up and that watch costs about $4-5k. Sure, it's expensive. But Walt and Skylar just finished paying for a ton of Hank's medical bills. They just bought a million-dollar business. And Walt just bought himself and his son brand new cars. So if Hank is suddenly suspicious about Walt buying himself a $5,000 watch, that's unrealistic, IMO.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bsnelson said:


> Holy sh*t. What an ending! I never, ever would have seen that coming....


Completely forgot about the kid on the bike...but as soon as I saw him at the end, I knew he was a goner. Didn't lessen the "holy $6!t" moment, though...


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> So I think based on the fact that he didn't see it, we have to assume that the kid just showed up as the train was pulling away and they were celebrating.


No, while they were celebrating, the pump was already off. The kid had to arrive when the pump was still on, or the motorcycle would have been heard.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I think we might be thinking too much about the watch by itself. It's just the combination of all the sudden excessive spending, Skylar suddenly wanting the kids out of the house saying Walt is a bad influence, that will probably cause Hank to look into what the hell is going on in the White household, and since he can look into financials he might unknowingly set the DEA on Walter and Skylar.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> No, while they were celebrating, the pump was already off. The kid had to arrive when the pump was still on, or the motorcycle would have been heard.


Nope. Watch it again. The pump stayed on quite a while. They all ran down there and were hooting and hollering, Jesse shouts, "Yeah, *****!" etc. The pump is on this whole time. Then someone shuts off the pump, and then that's when they hear that there's still another sound in the background, and they look over and it's the kid.

They didn't notice the kid until about the last 30-45 seconds of the episode. The only reason they noticed the kid is because they heard his bike after the pump got shut off. Are you thinking that they shut off the pump, did a bunch of celebrating, and then noticed the kid?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

As somewhat of a railfan, I noticed there was only one loco for the train, so the gross weight of all the railcars couldn't have been too great. Also it wasn't going very fast, so I suppose it's plausible it could have stopped in the given distance. But it certainly left to chance whether they would have stopped the loco right at the crossing or with a lot more distance to spare leaving the target tanker nowhere near the trestle...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> As somewhat of a railfan, I noticed there was only one loco for the train, so the gross weight of all the railcars couldn't have been too great. Also it wasn't going very fast, so I suppose it's plausible it could have stopped in the given distance. But it certainly left to chance whether they would have stopped the loco right at the crossing or with a lot more distance to spare leaving the target tanker nowhere near the trestle...


I think they had to have been prepared for the tanker to be anywhere within 200+ feet of the trestle either way. It made it easier to shoot the scene with the tanker right above the wash, which is why they shot it that way, but I don't think we're supposed to believe that they relied on the tanker stopping right in that spot for the caper to work, and that they weren't prepared for it to be quite a bit further away.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> Nope. Watch it again. The pump stayed on quite a while. They all ran down there and were hooting and hollering, Jesse shouts, "Yeah, *****!" etc. The pump is on this whole time. Then someone shuts off the pump, and then that's when they hear that there's still another sound in the background, and they look over and it's the kid.


You're right. I guess the kid could have just been there for a few seconds before they saw him. But he could have been there a lot longer.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think they had to have been prepared for the tanker to be anywhere within 200+ feet of the trestle either way. It made it easier to shoot the scene with the tanker right above the wash, which is why they shot it that way, but I don't think we're supposed to believe that they relied on the tanker stopping right in that spot for the caper to work, and that they weren't prepared for it to be quite a bit further away.


Perhaps, but it would have been much worse logistically (and more time-consuming) to run 200+ feet, THEN hook up the hoses, etc. But, yes, it made for much better teevee having it close to the trestle.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Here's a four-minute video clip of how they shot the tanker scene...


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> Perhaps, but it would have been much worse logistically (and more time-consuming) to run 200+ feet, THEN hook up the hoses, etc. But, yes, it made for much better teevee having it close to the trestle.


If they had been better prepared, they would have had multiple hoses, all laid out along the track (both directions) and camouflaged, with the ends spaced 50 feet apart or whatever. Then, wherever the train stopped, it would be within 25 feet of a couple hose ends.

And of course, as has been pointed out, they would have needed a much bigger pump.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> LOL...so you LOST your GPS tracker?


Yep.  As it gave it's dying gasps it teased me by telling me where it was in the yard.

Per the usual SNAFU it was still is battery save mode so it didn't get my instruction, given previously, to give it's location continuously. There's an option to not update constantly when it's inside the fence. Sorta makes my purpose of telling me when the dog is OUTSIDE the fence have a bit of delay.

No matter. I gave its position lotsa times as the battery died. I still couldn't see it. I think I have it down to a 30-50 foot radius circle. More aggravation is the the phone app will tell you what direction to look but THAT depends on your phone updating it's location and how fast your data link is...

It's designed to help you spot where your THING is, not where the tiny gizmo itself is.

We scoured and haven't found it so far. It could be outside the fence or under the deck, but so far we haven't spotted it. I refuse to mow until I find it. It's jungle out there.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I think you are right. Have you ever noticed at truck stops the truckers leave their diesel engines on for hours rather than stopping and starting them? I guess the same thing would apply to a diesel locomotive.


One reason they idle the locos, besides keeping it warm, is because it supplies all the power. In Union Station the engines stay at low idle while they use building power, then pull the house power, all the lights in passenger cars go out, and they run the engine(s) to high idle and switch to internal power. I've been told that the passenger trains have electric traction motors on the cars.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I predicted that Skyler was not going to be impressed how safe Walt and the family are by telling her how he faced down a gun to his head.

Now Heisenberg can tell Skyler everything is still safe and cool even if they did SHOOT A KID.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Hank said:


> Now I'm starting to dislike Walt for jeapordizing the entire operation just to get to 10,000 gallons of methylamine. I'm sure 9000 would have been just fine giving everyone time to detach and close up the tank.


I think the reason Walt wouldn't stop the pumps was not because he wanted 10000 and no less, but because if he stopped before the correct amount of water was put in the weight would be off and the theft would be discovered.



Peter000 said:


> And it's pretty brilliant of them to cast the guy from Friday Night Lights. I was totally expecting him to be a "good guy." Just because, so far, that's the kind of role he's played.


This is exactly the kind of role he has played. The kind of role he has played is someone who is willing to murder for other people.

They need to take the kid's body and dump it somewhere it will be found quickly. That way there won't be a search party that might stumble upon the tanks.

I never thought they would leave the methylamine in the tanks, I thought they would immediately return with the water truck and fill it back up with the methylamine.

As for the dirt falling in the methylamine, Walt being a master chemist, I assume he knows how to distill and purify that out.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

netringer said:


> Yep.  As it gave it's dying gasps it teased me by telling me where it was in the yard.
> 
> Per the usual SNAFU it was still is battery save mode so it didn't get my instruction, given previously, to give it's location continuously. There's an option to not update constantly when it's inside the fence. Sorta makes my purpose of telling me when the dog is OUTSIDE the fence have a bit of delay.
> 
> ...


You need to set up a hard perimeter and do a grid search.


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

danterner said:


> You need to set up a hard perimeter and do a grid search.


Don't forget to open a port


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

netringer said:


> I predicted that Skyler was nto going to be impressed how safe Walt and the fmaily are by telling her how he faced down a gun to his head.


Pretty chilling when Skylar sarcastically asked him if he was out burying bodies and he shocked her by telling her he was robbing a train and she knew he wasn't kidding.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

IMO, the killing of the boy, if the body is found, will be the main cause for the demise of Walt and Jessie. John Q Public doesn't get aroused as much when people involved in drugs kill each other as they do when an innocent young boy, a white one to boot, gets killed, and I'm not trying to be racist, but a white child, especially coming from a family that is well off, will cause such an uproar that the Government, local, state, and Federal, will throw every resource they have to find the ones responsible for the child's death.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I could be remembering wrong, but here's my theory.

Walt said they were going for 900 gallons of methylblahblah.
Walt then did the math to figure how much water they'd need to get the weight of the tanker back to what it was.

They then made a point of showing the counter stopping at 1,000 gallons if not more, along with multiple shots of Mike trying to get them to stop pumping.

This will become a plot point when the tanker ends up at it's destination a couple hundred pounds under what it's supposed to be.


phox


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

phox_mulder said:


> I could be remembering wrong, but here's my theory.
> 
> Walt said they were going for 900 gallons of methylblahblah.
> Walt then did the math to figure how much water they'd need to get the weight of the tanker back to what it was.
> ...


They were going to take 1,000 gallons of methylamine, and replace it with 934 (or some such exact number) gallons worth of water. Walt even accounted for spillage and what would be left in the hoses when he came up with the amount of water. They pulled off the switch exactly as they planed to.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

methylwhatamacallit is lighter than water so they wanted 1000 gallons of it and were replacing it with 900 something gallons of water.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

SeanC said:


> Don't forget to open a port


and refresh the hard drives while you're at it.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

nataylor said:


> They were going to take 1,000 gallons of methylamine, and replace it with 934 (or some such exact number) gallons worth of water. Walt even accounted for spillage and what would be left in the hoses when he came up with the amount of water. They pulled off the switch exactly as they planed to.


So I was remembering it backwards.

phox


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

nataylor said:


> They were going to take 1,000 gallons of methylamine, and replace it with 934 (or some such exact number) gallons worth of water. Walt even accounted for spillage and what would be left in the hoses when he came up with the amount of water. They pulled off the switch exactly as they planed to.


924.something (3, I think) and he rounded it up to 925 to account for spillage and what's left in the hose (I think I remember that correctly - I'm sure someone will chime in to tell me I'm wrong.).


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

900.24 Iirc


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Ok, I'll buy that Walt was waiting for the correct amount of methyl/water to be pumped in/out of the tanks instead of what I originally thought that Heisenberg was going for just filling the methlymine tank to capacity. That make more sense. I'm back to liking Walt better now,thanks!


I don't think anything will ever be found (on the show) relating to the hidden tanks or the diluted methlyamine. 

Also, I suppose they could buy/borrow/steal their own tanker trunk to store the methlyamine locally so there's no evidence left in the desert. They can just drive it to the tent lab and draw only as much as they need instead of dragging a 55gal drum everywhere.

Also, I like the idea above about laying out extra hose in case the railcar was further away. :up:


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> and refresh the hard drives while you're at it.


Dammit!!


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> ... So if Hank is suddenly suspicious about Walt buying himself a $5,000 watch, that's unrealistic, IMO.





robojerk said:


> I think we might be thinking too much about the watch by itself.


As I had originally suggested, the watch will be critical in connecting the dots between Jesse and Walt. Later. Hank does not (yet) have any suspicions about Walt. But the watch is distinctive, and they made a point of having Walt showing it to Hank and him commenting about it. Chekhov's gun. It was done for a reason, and it will become evident later in the show. Period.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

getreal said:


> As I had originally suggested, the watch will be critical in connecting the dots between Jesse and Walt. Later. Hank does not (yet) have any suspicions about Walt. But the watch is distinctive, and they made a point of having Walt showing it to Hank and him commenting about it. Chekhov's gun. It was done for a reason, and it will become evident later in the show. Period.


I generally don't subscribe to suppositions like this, but they've called out the watch a few more times that makes it stand out, so yes I think the watch will play some minor part of Walt's downfall.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Just watched the opening scene for the season premiere. Walt has no wedding band or watch, different glasses, hair and a full beard. I wonder if he faked his own death in order to return to ABQ and seek revenge on Mike?


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I'm not a chemist, nor well versed in physics, but if water is heavier than the methylamine, were they dealing in amounts small enough in ratio to the entire tanker car and in a small enough time frame, that they would not be diluting the methylamine they were taking from the bottom of the car by running water into the top of it at the same time?

And if they do leave the tanks there and draw from it as they need it, does the effect of the time over which they draw and the changing temperatures in that area of AZ (night versus day, etc.) have any real effect on the 'purity' or concentration of the methylamine? I can't imagine that stuff would 'spoil'?


----------



## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

Just when I thought this show was running out of steam... *BOOM!*


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

JLucPicard said:


> I'm not a chemist, nor well versed in physics, but if water is heavier than the methylamine, were they dealing in amounts small enough in ratio to the entire tanker car and in a small enough time frame, that they would not be diluting the methylamine they were taking from the bottom of the car by running water into the top of it at the same time?


It was a 24,000 gallon tanker, and they were putting in about 900 gallons of water, so even if the water did mix with the rest quickly enough to affect what they were drawing out, it would only be diluted around 4%. I'm sure Walt can deal with that in his recipe.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I got the impression that the wheels were turning for Walt that Lydia could help solve the Mike problem rather than the other way around. She knows the 9. Plenty of Ricin to go around. And she's a critical part of the supply chain. Maybe he's now thinking Todd could be the new muscle. Walt seems to process new challenges quickly. So... Bummer, the kid is dead, what do I do now?


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Would Mike have just up and shot the kid like that? I wonder if Walt, Jessie and Mike even knew Todd had a gun. Walt does seem to process and adapt to new challenges quickly and I think Jessie is learning to also, but it shows itself in different ways.

Getting the stuff from the train was a great idea but I wonder if Lydia thought they could even really pull it off. Maybe she thought of it as a set up to get her off her back if they were caught.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Getting the stuff from the train was a great idea but I wonder if Lydia thought they could even really pull it off. Maybe she thought of it as a set up to get her off her back if they were caught.


Lydia knows she is in deep, and implicated with these guys. She has been on the precipice a couple of times now, and has managed to talk her way out. But she has also tried to make people die, so she had "broken bad" before we first met her. I'd say that her fate is sealed, but who knows what twists are in store?


----------



## Tyrion The Imp (Jul 11, 2012)

That was another great episode. The whole train thing was awesome..

Does anyone get that feeling that Hank knows about Walt already?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Tyrion The Imp said:


> ...Does anyone get that feeling that Hank knows about Walt already?


It's beginning to seem that way....his comments about "keeping" their daughter, etc...make it sound like he's becoming increasingly suspicious.


----------



## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

You can speculate about how closely the story arc will emulate *Scarface* and whether or not the version emulated will be the 1932 original (Chicago Mob) or the 1989 Brian DePalma remake (Cuban gangsters). But the main story arc in both has the main character gaining power at the cost of family, and then striking out against all his enemies in an over-the-top attack. It's one of the basic themes from *The Godfather *films, as well.

Buit I'm not speculating. I just like to have a new episode in the TiVo, and my remote in hand. I like the Dolby Digital sound we have been treated to lately, and the cinematography has been uniformly excellant. This is a well-crafted production, made from excellant scripts.

Just this week in the scene where Jesse is on the tracks after replacing the pipe cap, the surround sound had the train wheels sounding as if they were rolling through the room. If you don't have surround, you are missing part of the experience.


----------



## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

Tyrion The Imp said:


> That was another great episode. The whole train thing was awesome..
> 
> Does anyone get that feeling that Hank knows about Walt already?


Hmm, that's an interesting thought, but I'm thinking that if he did know, or even had some pretty strong suspicions, he would have confronted Walt. Maybe told him something like "Look, I'm not sure this is you, but if you know anything about blue meth, we're getting close. If you just stop, I'll make sure it dies out", or maybe even just started dropping hints that they're getting close.

I'm pretty sure it's going to happen at some point, but I don't think we're there yet.


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I don't think there is any way Hank compromises an investigation for Walt. Even if Walt was his blood brother my impression of Hank as a DEA agent is that he wouldn't like it, but he would follow the trail and not warn him.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I watched the ep in two parts so by the time the ending rolled around I had completely and totally forgotten about the kid.

HOLY CRAP.

Love this show.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

If Hank doesn't warn him and busts him then his career is over. If he warns Walt then perhaps he saves his career. It will be interesting to see which way it goes as we all assume Hank will find out at some point. But who knows, maybe Hank stays in the dark until the very end.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

SeanC said:


> I don't think there is any way Hank compromises an investigation for Walt. Even if Walt was his blood brother my impression of Hank as a DEA agent is that he wouldn't like it, but he would follow the trail and not warn him.


I don't think Hank would do it for Walt, but I do think Hank would do it for Hank. If/when Walt is caught, whether it's by Hank or by anyone else, Hank's career is over. I can see Hank agreeing to some sort of deal where he will look the other way (maybe officially conclude that Heisenberg is dead) if Walt stops cooking/selling. I don't think Hank would like that at all, but it could be his best option.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

I found it interesting that the "Previously on AMC's Breaking Bad" made note of Hank saying they were working on putting a tail on Mike. 

That didn't come up in the context of this episode, and the Previously On usually only deals with things that are specifically needed to understand the episode you are about to watch.


----------



## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Interesting. Much like I never watch previews for next week I also don't watch the "previously on" because often it can foretell too much of what's about to happen or at least which direction the episode is going to go.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't see why the watch is such a big deal. It's not like we're talking about a $100,000 watch that there's no way Walt could realistically afford. I just looked it up and that watch costs about $4-5k. Sure, it's expensive. But Walt and Skylar just finished paying for a ton of Hank's medical bills. They just bought a million-dollar business. And Walt just bought himself and his son brand new cars. So if Hank is suddenly suspicious about Walt buying himself a $5,000 watch, that's unrealistic, IMO.


I think the watch stands out because it is a big purchase. Most people would consider a $5000 watch extravagent. Hank doesn't know about the medical bills and I don't know he knows how much the car wash was and the cars were explained as leases.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I forget, when Walter and Skylar laid out that lie about Walter's "gambling problem", was it just a cover to help explain away the purchase of the car wash, or did they include that they were also helping to pay for Hank's medical bills too?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I think the watch stands out because it is a big purchase. Most people would consider a $5000 watch extravagent. Hank doesn't know about the medical bills and I don't know he knows how much the car wash was and the cars were explained as leases.


It's also easy to hide a watch under a sleeve or jacket if Walt was concerned about it being to "showy". I think Heisenberg has it out flaunting it on purpose.

Much like when he was drunk and telling Hank that Gale is not the Heisenberg he was looking for. Dropping little hints to either taunt Hank or deep down he wants to get caught to end the insanity.

eta: or a third option -- to drop so many hints and *still* outsmart Hank. Hiding in plain sight.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

robojerk said:


> I forget, when Walter and Skylar laid out that lie about Walter's "gambling problem", was it just a cover to help explain away the purchase of the car wash, or did they include that they were also helping to pay for Hank's medical bills too?


Both.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

robojerk said:


> I forget, when Walter and Skylar laid out that lie about Walter's "gambling problem", was it just a cover to help explain away the purchase of the car wash, or did they include that they were also helping to pay for Hank's medical bills too?


Hank does not know that Walter and Sylar paid his medical bills but his wife knows and they used the car wash and the blackjack money to explain the money to her. Hank just knows about the car wash.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TheMerk said:


> Both.


 Not correct (as far as Hank is concerned).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> It's also easy to hide a watch under a sleeve or jacket if Walt was concerned about it being to "showy". I think Heisenberg has it out flaunting it on purpose...


totally agree


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Not correct (as far as Hank is concerned).


Ah, you're right. I forgot that Marie hadn't shared the financials with Hank.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hank said:


> It's also easy to hide a watch under a sleeve or jacket if Walt was concerned about it being to "showy". I think Heisenberg has it out flaunting it on purpose.
> 
> Much like when he was drunk and telling Hank that Gale is not the Heisenberg he was looking for. Dropping little hints to either taunt Hank or deep down he wants to get caught to end the insanity.
> 
> eta: or a third option -- to drop so many hints and *still* outsmart Hank. Hiding in plain sight.


I think the third option. His ego is in play. Drop the hints, flaunt and still have Hank running in circles.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

How ironic that they went with an extremely complex plan to avoid killing potential witnesses (train engineer and conductor), then "had" to kill an innocent boy who became an eyewitness...


----------



## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> How ironic that they went with an extremely complex plan to avoid killing potential witnesses (train engineer and conductor), then "had" to kill an innocent boy who became an eyewitness...


They went to that much trouble to hide the fact that a crime had been committed, and keep the heat off completely. I think the kid could have been dealt with without killing him, and I think even Mike has qualms about killing kids.

But let us not forget, all three main characters are multiple murderers, distributor/manufacturers of methamphetamine, and generaly people you would be lucky never to meet. Walt was once a "good guy", but he may be the worst because he voluntarily decided to pursue meth manufacturing and is trying to manipulate the others.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> They went to that much trouble to hide the fact that a crime had been committed, and keep the heat off completely. I think the kid could have been dealt with without killing him, and I think even Mike has qualms about killing kids.
> 
> But let us not forget, all three main characters are multiple murderers, distributor/manufacturers of methamphetamine, and generaly people you would be lucky never to meet. Walt was once a "good guy", but he may be the worst because he voluntarily decided to pursue meth manufacturing and is trying to manipulate the others.


Both Walt and Jesse were upset with Todd pulling the gun out and just shooting the kid. Maybe in the long run, Jesse and Mike would be more upset than Walt, who was okay with poisoning a little boy.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

robojerk said:


> I forget, when Walter and Skylar laid out that lie about Walter's "gambling problem", was it just a cover to help explain away the purchase of the car wash, or did they include that they were also helping to pay for Hank's medical bills too?


I thought it was a cover for paying Hank's medical bills. ??


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I find it very hard to believe that Hank doesn't know that Walt and Skylar were paying his medical bills. Where does he think all that money came from? Insurance? He's a detective, he's smarter than that to just take Marie's word for it.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> I find it very hard to believe that Hank doesn't know that Walt and Skylar were paying his medical bills. Where does he think all that money came from? Insurance? He's a detective, he's smarter than that to just take Marie's word for it.


He thinks his insurance covered all the costs which it would have, just not to the level of good care that he got. I don't find that hard to believe at all.


----------



## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

"Flynn" seems to be making a comeback.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

netringer said:


> We scoured and haven't found it so far. It could be outside the fence or under the deck, but so far we haven't spotted it. I refuse to mow until I find it. It's jungle out there.


Metal detector?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MNoelH said:


> 924.something (3, I think) and he rounded it up to 925 to account for spillage and what's left in the hose (I think I remember that correctly - I'm sure someone will chime in to tell me I'm wrong.).


I think the precise number was something like 906 and Walt rounded up to an even 920.


robojerk said:


> I forget, when Walter and Skylar laid out that lie about Walter's "gambling problem", was it just a cover to help explain away the purchase of the car wash, or did they include that they were also helping to pay for Hank's medical bills too?


The gambling excuse came up in S2 and S3. The car wash purchase wasn't even contemplated until S4. I think the gambling excuse was still used to explain how they had the money to purchase the car wash, but the car wash was not the original reason for the gambling cover.


Hank said:


> I find it very hard to believe that Hank doesn't know that Walt and Skylar were paying his medical bills. Where does he think all that money came from? Insurance? He's a detective, he's smarter than that to just take Marie's word for it.


Hank had insurance through the DEA. He thought it covered everything.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Hank said:


> I find it very hard to believe that Hank doesn't know that Walt and Skylar were paying his medical bills. Where does he think all that money came from? Insurance? He's a detective, he's smarter than that to just take Marie's word for it.


Why wouldn't he think the insurance covered it? He had no idea it was a point of contention.


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Robin said:


> Why wouldn't he think the insurance covered it? He had no idea it was a point of contention.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure Marie told him work was covering everything. And I'm sure Hank doesn't want to think about it. He definitely seems like the type to compartmentalize.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I don't even think it's him not wanting to think about it, it's just him not thinking about it. In my house I handle all the insurance and bill paying. My husband would have zero clue about something like this.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Hank had insurance through the DEA. He thought it covered everything.


ok then, it sure seems like a smoking gun if Hank ever finds out about it.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Tyrion The Imp said:


> Does anyone get that feeling that Hank knows about Walt already?


Absolutely not. Hank does not even suspect Walt has anything to do with Heisenberg. Yet.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Surfing around Youtube, I found this 31 minute "Breaking Bad Behind the Scenes" video. It's from Season 2, so it's pretty dated, but it does have lots of interesting background info.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2zuuRzsUZ0&feature=related[/media]


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Hank said:


> ok then, it sure seems like a smoking gun if Hank ever finds out about it.


nah,I think it would get written off as more from the gambling winnings.


----------



## Rob64 (Aug 27, 2005)

I don't like looking at the previews for the next show but


Spoiler



I'm guessing the hand being buried in the dirt for next weeks show was Todds. He fits Mikes definition of a loose cannon and I don't even think Mike would have shot the kid.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob64 said:


> I don't like looking at the previews for the next show but
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


BUT, I think they want us to believe that...


Spoiler



it's the spider kid...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Concerning next week...



Spoiler



I think they keep Todd to replace Mike. Clearly he has some street smarts and has no qualms about killing people. Besides just being a helping hand, something tells me that Todd knows a lot more about the meth/drug market/scene than they think.

I'd guess the hand is Lydia's.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> ... Besides just being a helping hand, something tells me that Todd knows a lot more about the meth/drug market/scene than they think.


_I unspoiled this excerpted quote because it isn't a spoiler._

I'm not getting that impression about Todd. He works for the fumigation company and is a thief. And now we have seen that he carries a concealed weapon and has no qualms about murdering a child without warning. I see him as a gangster/thug who wants to be part of a ruthless gang of criminals. But we haven't seen any foreknowledge of the drug business. Walt brought him in on this caper as a labourer in a train robbery. I was surprised at how much was revealed to him. It should have only been on a "need to know" basis.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Until Todd killed the boy, I was thinking he might be an undercover agent.

boy, was I wrong!


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Anubys said:


> Until Todd killed the boy, I was thinking he might be an undercover agent.
> 
> boy, was I wrong!


I was actually thinking the same..


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

getreal said:


> _I unspoiled this excerpted quote because it isn't a spoiler._


Some people get their panties in a bunch about talking about what might happen in future episodes. I don't, but I've been chastised at for not spoilerizing such talk in the past.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Until Todd killed the boy, I was thinking he might be an undercover agent.
> 
> boy, was I wrong!


If he was an undercover agent, they would have already had enough evidence to arrest Walt, Jesse and Mike after the first cook. All they had to do is raid that first house mid-cook and it's "game over".


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Hank said:


> If he was an undercover agent, they would have already had enough evidence to arrest Walt, Jesse and Mike after the first cook. All they had to do is raid that first house mid-cook and it's "game over".


sure, but how does Todd know that the conspiracy stops at Walt? Up to this point, as far as he knows, he just knows the 3 front men who cook and do security.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Anubys said:


> sure, but how does Todd know that the conspiracy stops at Walt? Up to this point, as far as he knows, he just knows the 3 front men who cook and do security.


It's still enough to arrest them and get them into custody and get them to talk.

I can't see the DEA letting a known meth lab continue to operate.

And once they arrest Walt and find the blue meth, Hank would put it all together so quickly to link him to Gus, et al.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Hank said:


> It's still enough to arrest them and get them into custody and get them to talk.
> 
> I can't see the DEA letting a known meth lab continue to operate.
> 
> And once they arrest Walt and find the blue meth, Hank would put it all together so quickly to link him to Gus, et al.


um...Hank...I was clearly wrong about Todd being an undercover agent


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Anubys said:


> um...Hank...I was clearly wrong about Todd being an undercover agent


Right, but it was obvious to me after the first cook that he wasn't an threat (in that way). But you said it took him to kill the boy to conclude he wasn't undercover. Heck, if he was undercover and going through the (not seen) training for the train robbery, don't you think he'd have them arrested BEFORE the train robbery and before anyone potentially could get hurt?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> It's still enough to arrest them and get them into custody and get them to talk.
> 
> I can't see the DEA letting a known meth lab continue to operate.
> 
> And once they arrest Walt and find the blue meth, Hank would put it all together so quickly to link him to Gus, et al.


Of course it would be enough to arrest them. But that's not usually how undercover operations work. They don't blow their cover at the first sign of criminal activity. They continue to observe and gather evidence and see how high up the food chain they can go.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Hank said:


> Right, but it was obvious to me after the first cook that he wasn't an threat (in that way). But you said it took him to kill the boy to conclude he wasn't undercover. Heck, if he was undercover and going through the (not seen) training for the train robbery, don't you think he'd have them arrested BEFORE the train robbery and before anyone potentially could get hurt?


Maybe he was an undercover railroad cop.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Hank said:


> Right, but it was obvious to me after the first cook that he wasn't an threat (in that way). But you said it took him to kill the boy to conclude he wasn't undercover. Heck, if he was undercover and going through the (not seen) training for the train robbery, don't you think he'd have them arrested BEFORE the train robbery and before anyone potentially could get hurt?


What can I say in my defense? I'm clearly not very smart.

-Truly, you have a dizzying intellect
- Wait till I get going! where was I?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Australia


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course it would be enough to arrest them. But that's not usually how undercover operations work. They don't blow their cover at the first sign of criminal activity. They continue to observe and gather evidence and see how high up the food chain they can go.


Exactly...

Oh, and remember who you're discussing this with....


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Hank said:


> Some people get their panties in a bunch about talking about what might happen in future episodes. I don't, but I've been chastised at for not spoilerizing such talk in the past.


If you're pulling it out of your butt based on what you've seen in the show, you're fine. If you're basing it on previews/articles/interviews with the cast or crew, you're not.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

netringer said:


> > Originally Posted by Story Sync
> >
> > graphic: by the numbers
> >
> > ...


Just listening to the podcast for this episode. Supposedly there is a deleted scene where Walt is standing on the train bridge, waiting for the train to arrive, and he's pontificating about the greatest train heists in history and comparing his heists to those. He's basically having delusions of grandeur by saying that the value of the meth that will be cooked from this heist will be several times greater than the value (in today's dollars) of the biggest train heists in history.

Also, in their research with real train experts, the concept of dark territory is a real thing, and there are places along the train routes where they lose all communication. Supposedly the writers had never seen or heard of the Steven Seagal movie, Under Siege: Dark Territory, and they were actually thinking of calling this episode Dark Territory until they did a search on IMDb and found that movie.

Another interesting tidbit: They got the boxcars for the train delivered the day before the shoot, and as boxcars tend to be, they were covered with grafitti. Because the grafitti is the intellectual property of the various taggers, and because they could not locate the taggers and get their permission to use their art in the show, they had to repaint the train cars overnight.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> ...Another interesting tidbit: They got the boxcars for the train delivered the day before the shoot, and as boxcars tend to be, they were covered with grafitti. Because the grafitti is the intellectual property of the various taggers, and because they could not locate the taggers and get their permission to use their art in the show, they had to repaint the train cars overnight.


I thought they looked oddly clean....


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

So you can't use someone's intellectual property that was illegally painted onto your physical property, but you can destroy it. Interesting.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> So you can't use someone's intellectual property that was illegally painted onto your physical property, but you can destroy it. Interesting.


Not destroying....just covering it up........on YOUR property.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Not destroying....just covering it up........on YOUR property.


since you can't "unpaint it" it is destroyed. Which you should have the right to do since it is on your property. I think if it's on my property I should also be able to use it, display it, alter it, sell it, etc.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tiams said:


> So you can't use someone's intellectual property that was illegally painted onto your physical property, but you can destroy it. Interesting.


If their art shows up in the show, and they didn't give their permission, they could sue and claim copyright infringement and seek damages. The likelihood of this happening in this case with grafitti is very remote, but movie and TV studios are very wary of this and therefore they have whole legal teams to "clear" every little thing that might make it into a shot.

For example, in an earlier podcast, they talked about the house they found that they're using as Lydia's house. It had lots of great art hanging on the walls that they would have loved to use. Unfortunately, they weren't able to clear it all, so they had to take down some of the homeowner's art and replace it with art that was cleared.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Robin said:


> If you're pulling it out of your butt based on what you've seen in the show, you're fine. If you're basing it on previews/articles/interviews with the cast or crew, you're not.


I agree totally, but I'm telling you, that Spoiler Nazis have blasted me for posting wild ass guesses as to what might happen in a future episode. So I now err on the safe (Nazi) side rather than risk another blast.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I think this happened on Sons of Anarchy, but it could have been another show.

Location department found a great place to shoot, but a wall in the background had a lot of graffiti on it.
They had to whitewash the wall, then paint their own graffiti, then shoot the scene.

(why does the spelling of graffiti look so wrong? grafitti? graffitti?)

They do some behind the scenes stuff and post to YouTube.


phox


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

tiams said:


> So you can't use someone's intellectual property that was illegally painted onto your physical property, but you can destroy it. Interesting.


I think it's more that in the event one of the taggers saw their work on TV, they could sue, but if they paint over it, the taggers have no clue their work has been destroyed since it's "mobile" anyway. That is, unless they planted a Garmin GPS device on them. 

Greg


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Just listening to the podcast for this episode. Supposedly there is a deleted scene where Walt is standing on the train bridge, waiting for the train to arrive, and he's pontificating about the greatest train heists in history and comparing his heists to those. He's basically having delusions of grandeur by saying that the value of the meth that will be cooked from this heist will be several times greater than the value (in today's dollars) of the biggest train heists in history.
> 
> Quote:Originally Posted by netringer
> 
> ...


$58,000,000 of 1963 dollars would be worth: $436,090,225.56 in 2012


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

brianric said:


> $58,000,000 of 1963 dollars would be worth: $436,090,225.56 in 2012


Is that $58 million in 1963 money or adjusted already?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianric said:


> $58,000,000 of 1963 dollars would be worth: $436,090,225.56 in 2012





MikeMar said:


> Is that $58 million in 1963 money or adjusted already?


The $58 million figure is already adjusted for inflation.

According to Wikipedia, the actual amount stolen in that heist in 1963 was £2.6 million.


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## Rob64 (Aug 27, 2005)

Hank said:


> Concerning next week...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I could see this happening especially with the previews showing Mike next week,


Spoiler



Mike may be ineffective being followed around by the DEA


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## thebigmo (Feb 12, 2005)

heh heh... http://blog.al.com/tuscaloosa/2012/08/man_named_walter_white_wanted.html#incart_river_default


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Skiping over everything. Just finished watching. Just had to comment about my reaction.


DAMN!! Landry kills again!!!




Walt is getting way to greedy and power hungry. He is gonna get what is coming to him. It will not be pretty.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Walt is getting way to greedy and power hungry. He is gonna get what is coming to him. It will not be pretty.


I think he just did!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

NSFW word:


Spoiler



http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/yeah-*****-train1.gif


http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/08/breaking-bad-alternate-ending-dead-freight/


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I think I just found the vanity license plate I've been searching for...

And it's even available... but for generic demonstration purposes:










If you don't get it (but I'm sure most of you do)...



Spoiler


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

The spoiler didn't help me at all. I still don't get it.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

BradJW said:


> The spoiler didn't help me at all. I still don't get it.





Spoiler



It's the logo from the barrels of methylamine.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

This was amusing:


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

nataylor said:


> This was amusing:


Didn't amuse me.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

nataylor said:


> This was amusing:


That was great!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> Didn't amuse me.


Agreed. That's in very poor taste....


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

tiams said:


> Didn't amuse me.





Bierboy said:


> Agreed. That's in very poor taste....


Do you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TheMerk said:


> Do you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?


Nope...doesn't matter. It's still in poor taste.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

TheMerk said:


> Do you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?


yes I do.


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

I thought it was funny! People need to lighten up.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

BK89 said:


> I thought it was funny! People need to lighten up.


This. I thought it was slightly funny if you watch Curb. It's not like it's a video of a real kid being shot. People need to lighten up.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Hank said:


> ... People need to lighten up.


ok...who are you and what have you done with Hank?!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

You people know that the kid really didn't die in real life right???

Funny stuff!!!


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> You people know that the kid really didn't die in real life right???


spoilers!


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

I love CYE!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Nope...doesn't matter. It's still in poor taste.


If you don't watch Curb, then you don't get the joke, and you have no way of knowing whether it was in poor taste.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

I watch Curb. Was there actually a joke to get, or was it just a CYE ending tacked on to BB?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> I watch Curb. Was there actually a joke to get, or was it just a CYE ending tacked on to BB?


But it's the feeling that you get at the end of a Curb episode when Larry does or says something and screws himself over, and then that music starts up. I thought it was funny the way that music made shooting the kid like just another Larry Davidesque ending to an episode of Curb.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

The clip was also edited to take scenes out of sequence which made it look like they were celebrating the shooting. Then the music and end credits. It was silly and I chuckled.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> But it's the feeling that you get at the end of a Curb episode when Larry does or says something and screws himself over, and then that music starts up. I thought it was funny the way that music made shooting the kid like just another Larry Davidesque ending to an episode of Curb.


Got that.



getreal said:


> The clip was also edited to take scenes out of sequence which made it look like they were celebrating the shooting. Then the music and end credits. It was silly and I chuckled.


And that.

So I'm feeling good about myself.

I was just trying to remember if an episode of CYE ended with Larry shooting a kid.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> ...you have no way of knowing whether it was in poor taste.


No one can tell me my opinion of something....because it's MY opinion. And, in MY opinion, it was in bad taste. It's a video of actors laughing at another actor, WHO IS A CHILD, being "shot" to death.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Give me a break. Half of this ----ing show is in "poor taste!"


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> No one can tell me my opinion of something....because it's MY opinion. And, in MY opinion, it was in bad taste. It's a video of actors laughing at another actor, WHO IS A CHILD, being "shot" to death.


But it's OK to be entertained by a TV show in which an actor, WHO IS A CHILD, is shot for dramatic purposes, or an actor, WHO IS A CHILD, is poisoned, or an actor, WHO IS A CHILD, shots someone else.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

nataylor said:


> But it's OK to be entertained by a TV show in which an actor, WHO IS A CHILD, is shot for dramatic purposes, or an actor, WHO IS A CHILD, is poisoned, or an actor, WHO IS A CHILD, shots someone else.


sure, as long as those things were done in good taste!


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

What I think will happen is that the tanks will soon get uncovered by a flash flood. Since they buried them in the middle of a wash. 

I loved the whole train heist scene, yeah there might be some minor details missed. But I was impressed that WW at least factored in the fact that the two liquids have different densities, so different volumes would be needed. You don't see that much detail in writing in other shows.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)




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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Test said:


>


NO WAY!!!! 

I love it! I have heard so many interviews with Aaron Paul and never did he mention this....I guess maybe if he won his showcase, he would mention it more...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

He missed his showcase by $132.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Hank said:


> He missed his showcase by $132.
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNZPWBZarmE[/media]


Now THAT sounds like an ep of CYE!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

[ yt={video name}]{code after "watch=" in Youtube URL}[ /yt]

It's a much better way to embed.

Greg


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hank said:


> He missed his showcase by $132.
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNZPWBZarmE[/media]


I watched that and then cruised thru come bloopers and then found this --


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

gchance said:


> [ yt={video name}]{code after "watch=" in Youtube URL}[ /yt]
> 
> It's a much better way to embed.
> 
> Greg


I know, I just didn't have time to do it both ways.


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