# Spectrum tuning adapter



## jerry rininger

Hi all. Need advise from y’all. I just upgraded to an Edge because the used bolt I purchased was having major issues tuning SDV channels and I wanted to rule out the device. So not 24 hours after getting the cable card paired I have some SDV channels that do not come in. So this isn’t TiVo hardware related. 

When I tune a channel that doesn’t come in the diagnostics in the TiVo show - for frequency, no signal strength, etc. Channels that I currently do get to come in, which may be gone tomorrow, show signal strength off 100% and SNR of 40-43%. I just ordered some attenuators to try to bring it down and have texted the spectrum supervisor and manager to tell them the issue persists. 

My question is could the high signal/SNR cause this issue or is it a hardware issue on their end? 

My area uses cisco Cc and TA. 

TIA. 

Jerry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quern

Quick Update - 2 days ago I had 4 people from Spectrum over. I had a Field Operations Manager, 2 Supervisors and a senior tech. They spent about 2 hours and i'm not sure if anything is resolved. Key takeaways:
* The Field Ops Mgr brought a meter to check basic electrical data. When checking the power supply strip (new this year) it would make my TV picture go black. Stop testing picture came back on. Flagged this as a possible issue. Replaced it with a Monster Power Switch I've had for yrs and the test yielded a picture that never went black.
* EMM's - The EMM's would not build on my Tivo. They were very low and they had to call to have "hits" sent to get the EMM's above 60. Restart Tivo and EMM's are 0. They were shocked they would not build on their own. 
* Checked all signals at pole and house to confirm everything was good.
* Supervisor who is experienced with TIVO's insisted that they check a few levels to ensure product was talking properly... and that EMM's had to be above 60
* Switched out my Cable Card and Tuning Adapter again to see if that solved the issue.
* Left with everything working but they had Maintenance come to the pole to check everything over... he disconnected us from the Pole which created the issue again where some SDV channels would not tune.
* I got attenuators in yesterday so I daisy chained a 8db, 6db and 3db together... SNR is still to hot but down to 37 from the 40's.
* Unplugged everything and restarted last night after installing attenuators. SDV was working OK but EMM's would not build.
* Checked the unit this morning and at noon. SDV still working but EMM's still at 0.

So I just got a call from the Field Oper Mgr and she is pointing to the issue being electrical. Said that although she isn't an electrician testing the volts cuased the tv to go black. I countered that she tested the socket w/out issue... switched to a different power strip and issue was solved. Her rational does not make sense to me given the EMM's are not building, etc... She said she would lend me another cable card and tuning adapter. She wants me to hook up my Bolt (which I mothballed for the Edge thinking the bolt was the issue) in a different room with different power to see if that solves the issue. She claims she had a round table with many supervisors and they cannot figure out why my SDV's drop off...

So questions for anyone willing to read this post.

1. Would my high SNR ratio cause issues with the cable card not to get the EMM's? Would this create problems with my tivo not being able to tune into channels... keeping in mind when a channel is blank there is no frequency or level shown... just a -
2. Does anyone know why Tivo states some channel provisions do not work correctly with Tuning Adapters? I'm wondering if this is my issue....
3. Has anyone ever had tivo issues that relate to Service Grouping (the field ops manager asked if I've run into this in all the reading i'm doing on this forum)

Any comments are appreciated!

Jerry


----------



## dlfl

I had a Tuning Adapter for ten years ending last November when I cut cable TV and went to YouTube TV, which I’m very happy with. I was on TWC, then Spectrum and their support for TA’s was terrible. You have had more attention to your problem than I got over the ten year period, during which I had many TA problems. Where are you located?

Because I was having problems I read the forum a lot over the years and it is obvious that TA’s are one of the worst problem sources for TiVo’s that require them, and that poor support from cable operators is very common. They are a kluge design and the approach was written off as a failure long ago by the FCC, although they officially still regulate them and the cable providers still pretend to support them.

Sorry I don’t have any answers to your questions, although I think it’s generally good that you got your SNR down to a reasonable level. (37 dB is reasonable, no need to cut it further.)


----------



## jerry rininger

I am in the Cleveland eastern suburbs. Mayfield heights. 

My wife noticed every time my son plays on the Xbox ( Fortnite) we lose the channels. Starting to wonder if something here is causing the issue. The modem, TA and TiVo are connected via a splitter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

Ok, lets get something out of the way. The whole SNR and attenuator thing is BS. That is Tivo crap to make you go away and make your cable company figure it out. My signal level hitting my EDGE and Bolt are 10dBmv. My SNR is 47 my meter level is 100 (in fact its higher, but the meter won't show that) and my picture is rock solid. I can boost it higher, or drop it down into the 20's with no change. So what is the key you ask? With Spectrum the most important issue is the signal level on the TA. The downstream path must be near or above 0dBmv, but the MOST important signal is the return path from the TA back to Spectrum. They use a very low frequency for the return that is plagued by noise on coax portion of their network. On my system it is 10Mhz. There is little room for error at such low frequencies. If your return is too low then you will need a return path amplifier, or at the least you will need a zero gain amplified splitter at your demarcation point if you are splitting your signal at all. If your return is bad, then your TA can't communicate to Spectrum the channel you have requested.


----------



## Qbert81

Skye said:


> Ok, lets get something out of the way. The whole SNR and attenuator thing is BS. That is Tivo crap to make you go away and make your cable company figure it out. My signal level hitting my EDGE and Bolt are 10dBmv. My SNR is 47 my meter level is 100 (in fact its higher, but the meter won't show that) and my picture is rock solid. I can boost it higher, or drop it down into the 20's with no change. So what is the key you ask? With Spectrum the most important issue is the signal level on the TA. The downstream path must be near or above 0dBmv, but the MOST important signal is the return path from the TA back to Spectrum. They use a very low frequency for the return that is plagued by noise on coax portion of their network. On my system it is 10Mhz. There is little room for error at such low frequencies. If your return is too low then you will need a return path amplifier, or at the least you will need a zero gain amplified splitter at your demarcation point if you are splitting your signal at all. If your return is bad, then your TA can't communicate to Spectrum the channel you have requested.


Do you experience any macro blocking or pixilation?


----------



## jerry rininger

Skye said:


> Ok, lets get something out of the way. The whole SNR and attenuator thing is BS. That is Tivo crap to make you go away and make your cable company figure it out. My signal level hitting my EDGE and Bolt are 10dBmv. My SNR is 47 my meter level is 100 (in fact its higher, but the meter won't show that) and my picture is rock solid. I can boost it higher, or drop it down into the 20's with no change. So what is the key you ask? With Spectrum the most important issue is the signal level on the TA. The downstream path must be near or above 0dBmv, but the MOST important signal is the return path from the TA back to Spectrum. They use a very low frequency for the return that is plagued by noise on coax portion of their network. On my system it is 10Mhz. There is little room for error at such low frequencies. If your return is too low then you will need a return path amplifier, or at the least you will need a zero gain amplified splitter at your demarcation point if you are splitting your signal at all. If your return is bad, then your TA can't communicate to Spectrum the channel you have requested.


Skye

Yep. My tuning adapter is at 10.000 MHz for RDC. The tuner is 1 dbv with and fdc of -6 and an RDC of 38 dBmv

There is also rdc: 694usec but I don't know what that is.

I feel like this is the issue. It just seems like my system is asking for the channel but it's not being told what frequency to tune and is why I get the - for frequency, modulation, program number and signal strength.

If my number is too low what is my best option to boost the return signal.

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

Qbert81 said:


> Do you experience any macro blocking or pixilation?


None


----------



## Skye

jerry rininger said:


> Skye
> 
> Yep. My tuning adapter is at 10.000 MHz for RDC. The tuner is 1 dbv with and fdc of -6 and an RDC of 38 dBmv
> 
> There is also rdc: 694usec but I don't know what that is.
> 
> I feel like this is the issue. It just seems like my system is asking for the channel but it's not being told what frequency to tune and is why I get the - for frequency, modulation, program number and signal strength.
> 
> If my number is too low what is my best option to boost the return signal.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You need to make sure you are not splitting your signal any more than you need to. Your best bet is to get an amplified splitter with an active return. If you are concerned about sending too much signal to your EDGE with the amp you can get a 0 gain splitter amp.


----------



## Skye

5 and 9 Port Active Return Coax Amplifier Splitter | PPC Broadband


----------



## quern

Skye said:


> 5 and 9 Port Active Return Coax Amplifier Splitter | PPC Broadband


Thanks! I only power the one TV with my TIVO. The line comes to the box on the side of the house and then to my basement. I have it to a 2 way splitter there but i only did that as a test to try and reduce the signal. I can tie it directly to the coax that goes to my TV. At the wall I have a 2 way splitter (spectrum took my 3 way). THe 2 way currently feeds the cable modem and the Tuning adapter. My tivo is directly connected to the tuning adapter because that is the spectrum way that the techs know and insisted I try.

I don't have a need for a unit like the one you provided a link to. Is there a recommended 3 way or 4 way unit that is smaller to fit behind my TV? I think it'd be best to get a 0 gain splitter amp to not push any more signal to the Tivo and only push the return channel back... Any suggestion on what I should buy is appreciated. If this works I'll be relaying this to the spectrum team I'm working with.

I'm also not sure how much I should try to bump up the return signal...


----------



## Skye

Ok, so first you should not have your signal going thru the TA and then to the Edge. Put the two way split before the TA and feed each separately. Make sure you put a moca filter on the input to the TA. 

They don’t make a smaller than 5 port amp/splitter that I would trust. PPC is what we use at work. Your best bet is to find a way to hide it behind your gear and use it in place of any passive splitters. What you are trying to do is boost your return. Passives drop your return more than they drop the forward path. You could try to get Spectrum to supply you a reverse path amp, but most field techs would be clueless and give you a standard amp that is passive on the return. I got them to give me the PPC. I had the same issue as you, great forward signal, horrible return. I live in a high rise with 90 drops coming off an array of passive splitters in our data closets. They amp the signal to overcome all the splits.


----------



## quern

Skye said:


> Ok, so first you should not have your signal going thru the TA and then to the Edge. Put the two way split before the TA and feed each separately. Make sure you put a moca filter on the input to the TA.
> 
> They don't make a smaller than 5 port amp/splitter that I would trust. PPC is what we use at work. Your best bet is to find a way to hide it behind your gear and use it in place of any passive splitters. What you are trying to do is boost your return. Passives drop your return more than they drop the forward path. You could try to get Spectrum to supply you a reverse path amp, but most field techs would be clueless and give you a standard amp that is passive on the return. I got them to give me the PPC. I had the same issue as you, great forward signal, horrible return. I live in a high rise with 90 drops coming off an array of passive splitters in our data closets. They amp the signal to overcome all the splits.


OK. I will follow your lead. When you mention to put on a MOCA filter on the tuning adapter input what does this help accomplish? I'm not running MOCA at my house.

I'm just trying to learn so I can pass the information along.


----------



## Skye

If you are positive you have moca turned off in your Edge then you don’t need the filter. The TA does not work well with moca signals coming into its rf front end. Causes more than the usual number of TA crashes. By the way not a bad idea to reboot your TA on a regular basis. They just get stupid. I had mine on a smart switch controlled by Alexa, restarting at 3am every Sunday. I no longer use my TA btw. I found if I don’t use it I only lose 2 channels that I never watched anyway. I am on Spectrums smallest plan so if you are on a larger package you would probably lose more channels without the TA.


----------



## quern

Skye:

Please disregard that last post. I searched the form and found the information on Moca fitlers. I'll get 2. One for the incoming signal and 1 for my tuning adapter also.


----------



## mdavej

99.9% of the time, card isn't really paired or TA is disabled on Spectrum's end. I'd want proof that both are actually working before going down the signal level path. Do you see Val at a non-zero number on the card diags? What's your TA light doing?


----------



## krkaufman

Skye said:


> If you are positive you have moca turned off in your Edge then you don't need the filter. The TA does not work well with moca signals coming into its rf front end.


One exception here would be if a neighbor has a live MoCA network and neither residence has a "PoE" MoCA filter in place, to isolate the MoCA signals to a given residence.


----------



## quern

mdavej said:


> 99.9% of the time, card isn't really paired or TA is disabled on Spectrum's end. I'd want proof that both are actually working before going down the signal level path. Do you see Val at a non-zero number on the card diags? What's your TA light doing?


My tuning adapter light is always solid. I lose channels and it's still solid. If I unplug the Tuning adapter for 10 seconds all channels are OK again... for how long is unknown.

I will have to check later the the Val question. I think I do but i can't say for sure.


----------



## quern

quern said:


> My tuning adapter light is always solid. I lose channels and it's still solid. If I unplug the Tuning adapter for 10 seconds all channels are OK again... for how long is unknown.
> 
> I will have to check later the the Val question. I think I do but i can't say for sure.


I forgot to note that if I have a channel on that isn't coming in... after a while the tuning adapter will flash 6 times, screen goes black for 2 seconds or so... tuning adapter light goes solid and picture returns. Changing the tuner that is on a SDV which isn't coming in resolves the blinking light issue.


----------



## Skye

quern said:


> I forgot to note that if I have a channel on that isn't coming in... after a while the tuning adapter will flash 6 times, screen goes black for 2 seconds or so... tuning adapter light goes solid and picture returns. Changing the tuner that is on a SDV which isn't coming in resolves the blinking light issue.


sure sounds like you have a bad return.


----------



## warrenn

quern said:


> My tuning adapter light is always solid. I lose channels and it's still solid. If I unplug the Tuning adapter for 10 seconds all channels are OK again... for how long is unknown.
> 
> I will have to check later the the Val question. I think I do but i can't say for sure.


Welcome to the wonderful world of tuning adapters! This is pretty much the normal routine if you have a TA. Sometimes it won't come back after the reboot and you'll have to call Spectrum to have them do something on their end. Write down the phone tree to get to the TA rep so you'll be able to get there quickly next time. I had multiple techs come out to the house and nothing really changed. I even complained to the FCC and got my own person to work with me, but she just said that rebooting the TA is the only thing that can be done. You might want to plug the TA into a lamp timer so it can automatically do a power cycle every day. I eventually got so frustrated about missing recordings that I dumped cable and swore I'd never use a system with a TA again.


----------



## quern

mdavej said:


> 99.9% of the time, card isn't really paired or TA is disabled on Spectrum's end. I'd want proof that both are actually working before going down the signal level path. Do you see Val at a non-zero number on the card diags? What's your TA light doing?


I have a Cisco card... so I do not have the VAL setting.


----------



## mattyro7878

Hate to say this but this stuff is why cable companies don't want to deal with Tivos.


----------



## quern

Quick update. Installed Moca filters on 11/1 along with a few attenuators to bring the SNR down on the edge. A reset of the Tuning adapter went well for a few days so on Thursday I added a PPP EVO15uu-b to amp the RDC, etc... When I added this I removed the attenuators. By Friday night I lost channels again... so i removed the PPP active return amp and went back to the previous setup using the moca filters (one incoming into house, the other on the "in' of the tuning adapter). Got channels working on Friday night but lost channels Saturday morning... but low and behold the channels came back on their own sometime Sat night or Sunday am. The channels are still tuning today (Monday 11/9). 

I'm not sure if the moca filter is the solution but this is the most stable my channels have been. I'm going to leave the PPP out of the equation for now and see how many days I can get it to tune channels. I continue to be in constant contact with Spectrum and text them whenever something changes (good or bad). They have been very nice and appreciate all the things I've been doing. I think they are baffled as to what is going on. When I texted them Friday that I lost channels they checked their diagnostics and didn't see any glaring issues but were still going to have the team recertify the area to double check on any potential issues as a proactive stance.


----------



## Skye

You need the moca filters even with the PPP. Having the amp does not block the moca signals from getting into your TA, or a neighbors moca signal from coming into your home. So hook up the PPP with a moca filter in the MAIN INPUT to the PPP and a moca filter on the input side of the TA.


----------



## quern

Skye said:


> You need the moca filters even with the PPP. Having the amp does not block the moca signals from getting into your TA, or a neighbors moca signal from coming into your home. So hook up the PP with a moca filter in the MAIN INPUT to the PPP and a mock filter on the input side of the TA.


Skye: I never removed the Moca Filter to begin with... just added the PPP Amp. So the Moca Filter has always been installed in my basement where the main line comes in and also on the cable line in for the TA. :shrug:


----------



## Skye

You could just have bad luck and gotten a bad TA. I had to go through three before they found a stable one. These things are old and have been kicked around.


----------



## Skye

Also cant recall if you tried swapping out the USB cable, and make sure you are in port 1 on the Edge.


----------



## jerry rininger

Skye said:


> Also cant recall if you tried swapping out the USB cable, and make sure you are in port 1 on the Edge.


I don't know which usb it's in. I looked in directions but didn't see anything call out a specific USB port like the bolt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

Top port


----------



## jerry rininger

Skye said:


> Top port


Edge are side by side.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

that's right, I forgot. Left one looking at it from the rear.


----------



## quern

well it's been a week and the tuning adapter has not had any issues. The Moca Filter seems to be the solution. I told this to my Spectrum contacts and they told me the Cable Modem I have does not have a filter.... so my issue seems to have come from that. The good thing is that they provided me with a nice credit due to my struggles and also covered the cost of my moca filters and PPP 5 channel active return amp. They also appreciated all the assistance and feedback I provided. They never would have thought of the moca filter being the solution so thank you to all that has provided help and this forum. Truly saved me from switching to a spectrum box.

Now I just have to sell the Bolt I originally purchased since I ended up upgrading it to an Edge.


----------



## Skye

Did you end up keeping the amp in line?


----------



## jerry rininger

Skye said:


> Did you end up keeping the amp in line?


Yes. I did. It's not hooked up right now but I plan to hook it back up over the weekend.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

Not sure how your cable modem came in to play. It has nothing to do with your TA or Edge. So you put a moca filter on that too?


----------



## jerry rininger

Skye said:


> Not sure how your cable modem came in to play. It has nothing to do with your TA or Edge. So you put a moca filter on that too?


Moca filter is just on the tuning adapter. I can't explain it other than my system is stable. My wife noticed anytime my son would play the Xbox on line ,like Fortnite, we would lose channels. 5)3 cable modem is on the same splitter as the TiVo and TA.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

jerry rininger said:


> Moca filter is just on the tuning adapter. I can't explain it other than my system is stable. My wife noticed anytime my son would play the Xbox on line ,like Fortnite, we would lose channels. 5)3 cable modem is on the same splitter as the TiVo and TA.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You may want to check your house wiring for ground loops or voltage on ground. But glad your TA is stable.


----------



## jerry rininger

Skye said:


> You may want to check your house wiring for ground loops or voltage on ground. But glad your TA is stable.


How do I do that?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skye

Easier to look up on Google how to check for ground loops then for me to explain it all here.


----------



## Skye

If you do have a ground loop, when you put the PPC amp back inline it should isolate that from your coax cable. I highly suggest that you attach a ground wire to the ground lug on the amp and ground it to the same source as your house ground or to the ground that Spectrum installed on your house. I always run separate grounds from my splitters or amps to house ground because otherwise you are relying on the shield of the coax to carry stray voltages, which induces noise. Remember voltage always look for the path of least resistance and a ground wire has a much lower resistance than the shield.

You may have equipment plugged into your cable and ethernet networks in different parts of the house, on different legs and phases of your circuit breaker panel, and you are getting some induced voltage on the coax. Most electronics tolerate a certain amount, have isolation filters built in. But we already know that the TA is a piece of crap and does not tolerate much.

If you don't want to use the amp then a very easy way to block ground loops on your cable is by using something like this, https://www.amazon.com/TII-220-Grou...s=VRD-1FF+CATV+isolator&qid=1605468847&sr=8-4


----------



## Qbert81

Skye said:


> If you do have a ground loop, when you put the PPC amp back inline it should isolate that from your coax cable. I highly suggest that you attach a ground wire to the ground lug on the amp and ground it to the same source as your house ground or to the ground that Spectrum installed on your house. I always run separate grounds from my splitters or amps to house ground because otherwise you are relying on the shield of the coax to carry stray voltages, which induces noise. Remember voltage always look for the path of least resistance and a ground wire has a much lower resistance than the shield.
> 
> You may have equipment plugged into your cable and ethernet networks in different parts of the house, on different legs and phases of your circuit breaker panel, and you are getting some induced voltage on the coax. Most electronics tolerate a certain amount, have isolation filters built in. But we already know that the TA is a piece of crap and does not tolerate much.
> 
> If you don't want to use the amp then a very easy way to block ground loops on your cable is by using something like this, https://www.amazon.com/TII-220-Grou...s=VRD-1FF+CATV+isolator&qid=1605468847&sr=8-4


Where would the ground loop isolator get connected to?


----------



## Skye

I changed this reply because we are trying to isolate only your TiVo gear. 

Option 1. Put the isolator on the input side of the splitter that feeds the TA and Edge. This isolates them both from your house but not from each other. 

Option 2. Put the isolator directly in line with the moca filter on the TA. This isolates the TA from everything. 

I would try option 1 first.


----------

