# For Goodness sake, GET RID OF THE ANNOYING AUTO SLEEP!!!



## zubinh

I dont know why this function isnt getting the proper criticism it deserves. Am I the only one who finds the auto shut off feature of the Mini, one of the worst ideas Tivo has ever come up with? For the life of me I cannot figure out ANY reasoning why Tivo included this useless feature.


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## moyekj

zubinh said:


> I dont know why this function isnt getting the proper criticism it deserves. Am I the only one who finds the auto shut off feature of the Mini, one of the worst ideas Tivo has ever come up with? For the life of me I cannot figure out ANY reasoning why Tivo included this useless feature.


 To me the reasons are VERY obvious: to avoid unnecessarily taking up network bandwidth and putting additional load on the host 4 tuner TiVo when nobody is watching the Mini. Also once dynamic tuning allocation is in place this also frees up the tuner for recording on the host unit once live TV auto turns off.
What I don't like is there is no option anywhere to change this behavior to make the timeout longer or even disable it for those that want to. I think that is the real mistake that TiVo made with this feature.

Personally, for me this is not a problem and this feature benefits me since:
a/ I don't watch live TV
b/ While I stream recorded shows I always use trick functions so timeout never happens


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## aaronwt

zubinh said:


> I dont know why this function isnt getting the proper criticism it deserves. Am I the only one who finds the auto shut off feature of the Mini, one of the worst ideas Tivo has ever come up with? For the life of me I cannot figure out ANY reasoning why Tivo included this useless feature.


I would hate for them to get rid of this. The thing they need to add is the ability to make it shorter.
One night in my bedroom I wanted to watch something. But the Mini from the other room was still connected since it had not been 90 minutes yet. So I had to get up to address the Mini in the other room. If the timer had been 30 minutes or even less in that instance I would have never needed to get out of bed to be able to view a channel on the Mini in my bedrom


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> I would hate for them to get rid of this. The thing they need to add is the ability to make it shorter.
> One night in my bedroom I wanted to watch something. But the Mini from the other room was still connected since it had not been 90 minutes yet. So I had to get up to address the Mini in the other room. If the timer had been 30 minutes or even less in that instance I would have never needed to get out of bed to be able to view a channel on the Mini in my bedrom


I complained about this timeout when the Mini first came out, don't get rid of it just make it adjustable, from say 15 minutes to 10 hours, should handle all circumstances. (you can turn it off but 10 hours should handle the long timeout OK)


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## martyscholes

I have not (yet) purchased a Mini but have never heard about the sleep / timeout until reading this thread.

What exactly times out? Does it shut down the Mini? Does it keep the Mini going but release a tuner? Will it time out while watching a recorded show? Will it time out while using one of the applications, such as Streambaby or listening to Pandora? Ok, maybe not those because they don't work on the Mini, but what about watching Netflix? Oh wait, not that either. Xfinity on Demand, will that time out?

Do tell.


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## Dan203

The timeout only applies to live TV. When you're watching live TV on the Mini it's actually borrowing a tuner from the host TiVo and streaming the video across your network. If it's doing this and you don't interact with the Mini for 90 minutes then it shuts down the stream. The Mini itself is still awake only the live TV stream stops.

As it is right now, where you have to permanently dedicate tuners to live TV streaming, the timeout doesn't make a ton of sense. Except for in rare cases when a user has more Minis then they have tuners dedicated to live TV streaming. However when they get dynamic tuner allocation working this timeout will be a lot more critical because it will release the tuner back to the host so it can actually use it for recording.


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## moyekj

martyscholes said:


> Will it time out while using one of the applications, such as Streambaby or listening to Pandora? Ok, maybe not those because they don't work on the Mini


 FYI Pandora DOES run on the Mini.


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## zubinh

I get the whole dynamic tuner allocation thingy but for me its rare that I'm ever recording 3 shows at once. And as far as bandwith goes, I dont notice any difference on my other devices when the Mini is on. At the very least give me the ability to make the auto sleep feature longer (like 8 hours). There are still people out there who like to sleep with the TV on sometimes.


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## martyscholes

zubinh said:


> I get the whole dynamic tuner allocation thingy but for me its rare that I'm ever recording 3 shows at once. And as far as bandwith goes, I dont notice any difference on my other devices when the Mini is on. At the very least give me the ability to make the auto sleep feature longer (like 8 hours). There are still people out there who like to sleep with the TV on sometimes.


That's interesting and it goes to show just how different people's viewing habits are. If our XL4 ever drops to two shows being recorded, I wonder what's wrong. About 60% of the time it is recording 4 shows and maybe 30% of the time it is recording 3 shows. Rarely is it only recording 2 and almost never is it down to 1 or (egad!) 0.

That said, I _never_ watch live TV nor do any of the other four people in my house. If it's important enough to watch, it's recorded.

We record a bunch of "just in case" shows with extremely low priority. My wife has put some 270 entries on the season pass list. We like suspense movies in HD, so we have a blanket rule to record any HD suspense movie and keep 25 of them. That way, on Friday night when we want to watch a movie, we just find one of the 25 that we feel like watching. There are several other rules like that, such as my son's love for Sports Center, which seems to be constantly recording but never conflicts with anything important. Any important sporting event is also recorded, even though it is watched (somewhat) live.

The point is that I really don't care about tuner allocation. If I just want to watch live TV (why would I want that?), then I don't need a Tivo.

I guess we are all different in how we watch TV.


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## gard1

I'm a snorer...and me and my wife usually have TVs on in separate rooms....I like that it shuts down... though that's me....my wife not bothered either.. QVC zombie that she is....


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## PaperFriend

I agree that it needs to be adjustable. My wife HATES the mini because of this Time out feature. She likes to have the TV on while she reads.


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## anonymoususer

PaperFriend said:


> I agree that it needs to be adjustable. My wife HATES the mini because of this Time out feature. She likes to have the TV on while she reads.


Mine too! She's thinking of dumping it.


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## sbiller

While I agree with making the timeout adjustable and being able to disable the feature, I wonder if the introduction of dynamic tuner allocation this fall will change the behavior of auto-sleep. 

Couldn't a Mini requesting a live-tuner be given the option of stealing a tuner from another Mini that has a live-tuner currently in-use?

If that is the case, TiVo could eliminate the option or make it only applicable for households that have more than one Mini connected to a host DVR.


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## lessd

sbiller said:


> While I agree with making the timeout adjustable and being able to disable the feature, I wonder if the introduction of dynamic tuner allocation this fall will change the behavior of auto-sleep.
> 
> Couldn't a Mini requesting a live-tuner be given the option of stealing a tuner from another Mini that has a live-tuner currently in-use?
> 
> If that is the case, TiVo could eliminate the option or make it only applicable for households that have more than one Mini connected to a host DVR.


I did not like this time out at the beginning when I got my Mini, I think that the idea behind this auto time out is to lower the network traffic when the Mini is not being used.


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## Bigg

Yeah, they should make it adjustable. I'd put it to like 30 minutes to free up tuner resources. It should give a pop-up for a few minutes to let you keep it though, although I guess hitting "Live TV" again from TiVo Central isn't that big of a deal if you just have it on.


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## supasta

I quite like it, and the wife really likes the feature. 
I would support an option to adjust the timing or disable it, but it also works well for me as-is.


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> I did not like this time out at the beginning when I got my Mini, I think that the idea behind this auto time out is to lower the network traffic when the Mini is not being used.


How is streaming an HD channel, which has low bandwidth, going to affect the network traffic? It shouldn't be using much bandwidth on the network.

Even streaming a BD ISO doesn't tax the network.


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## supasta

supasta said:


> I quite like it, and the wife really likes the feature.
> I would support an option to adjust the timing or disable it, but it also works well for me as-is.


Dare I say they should enable it on all TiVo boxes. Options and settings are good.


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## aaronwt

Why would you need it on a regular TiVo?


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## supasta

aaronwt said:


> Why would you need it on a regular TiVo?


It wouldn't be that you would need it on a regular TiVo.
I was touting the option.


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> How is streaming an HD channel, which has low bandwidth, going to affect the network traffic? It shouldn't be using much bandwidth on the network.
> 
> Even streaming a BD ISO doesn't tax the network.


So why do you think TiVo even put this sleep mode into the unit??? if not to cut down on network traffic.


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> So why do you think TiVo even put this sleep mode into the unit??? if not to cut down on network traffic.


To free up the tuner for another Mini?

I've run into the problem myself. I had set my alarm system and I had left the Mini in my main room on a channel. So since the tuner was not free for the Mini in my bedroom, I needed to disarm the alarm to get that remote to hit the TiVo button. Then I could go back to the bedroom to get access to that tuner. If I had my way I would have the option to give up the tuner in 15 to 30 minutes. Then I would be less likely to run into that situation.

Streaming an SD or HD channel does not use much bandwidth. I'll transfer content at speeds of hundreds of mb/s for days sometimes from other devices over my network and it causes zero issues with bandwidth for other devices I use on my network. A TiVo Mini streaming a low bandwidth HD channel, even on a 100Mb/s network, should not cause any issues.


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> To free up the tuner for another Mini?
> 
> I've run into the problem myself. I had set my alarm system and I had left the Mini in my main room on a channel. So since the tuner was not free for the Mini in my bedroom, I needed to disarm the alarm to get that remote to hit the TiVo button. Then I could go back to the bedroom to get access to that tuner. If I had my way I would have the option to give up the tuner in 15 to 30 minutes. Then I would be less likely to run into that situation.
> 
> Streaming an SD or HD channel does not use much bandwidth. I'll transfer content at speeds of hundreds of mb/s for days sometimes from other devices over my network and it causes zero issues with bandwidth for other devices I use on my network. A TiVo Mini streaming a low bandwidth HD channel, even on a 100Mb/s network, should not cause any issues.


I don't have two Minis but your saying that two Minis do not lock up two tuners on one TP-4, if the Mini is in the sleep mode you get to use all 4 tuners??, that not the way I understood the system, as I understood with two Minis and one TP-4 you now had a two tuner TP-4, if you wanted each Mini to be able to tune Live TV. But your saying if both Minis go to sleep I get back my two tuners ??? (With DTA you may be correct but we don't have DTA yet)


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## moyekj

What he's saying is you can choose to allocate only 1 tuner from your TP-4 and both Minis can then use that same 1 tuner, but not at the same time. i.e. The Mini side of things is already dynamic. It's the TP-4 side that currently is static.


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## lessd

moyekj said:


> What he's saying is you can choose to allocate only 1 tuner from your TP-4 and both Minis can then use that same 1 tuner, but not at the same time. i.e. The Mini side of things is already dynamic. It's the TP-4 side that currently is static.


So your saying that if I have two Minis allocated to one tuner and I stop using Mini #1 for live TV, I have to wait 90 min. before I can use Mini #2 for live TV because Mini #1 has to go to sleep, just asking as I said I don't own two Minis and would like to know.


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## moyekj

lessd said:


> So your saying that if I have two Minis allocated to one tuner and I stop using Mini #1 for live TV, I have to wait 90 min. before I can use Mini #2 for live TV because Mini #1 has to go to sleep, just asking as I said I don't own two Minis and would like to know.


 As long as only 1 Mini needs live TV at a time either one can grab the dedicated tuner from the P4 right away. i.e. If you just press TiVo button on Mini #1 such that it is no longer in live TV mode then Mini #2 can grab the tuner from the P4 right away for live TV - no need to wait 90 minutes. If someone then attempts to use live TV on Mini #1 while Mini #2 is in live TV mode they will be denied access.


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## lessd

moyekj said:


> As long as only 1 Mini needs live TV at a time either one can grab the dedicated tuner from the P4 right away. i.e. If you just press TiVo button on Mini #1 such that it is no longer in live TV mode then Mini #2 can grab the tuner from the P4 right away for live TV - no need to wait 90 minutes. If someone then attempts to use live TV on Mini #1 while Mini #2 is in live TV mode they will be denied access.


OK I understand; Than what was the purpose (you think) that TiVo put in the sleep mode in the Mini in first place, my thought was to reduce local network traffic when the Mini was not in use, maybe TiVo though some local networks could be bogged down by this extra traffic??


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## moyekj

lessd said:


> OK I understand; Than what was the purpose (you think) that TiVo put in the sleep mode in the Mini in first place, my thought was to reduce local network traffic when the Mini was not in use, maybe TiVo though some local networks could be bogged down by this extra traffic??


 Unnecessary network traffic I think is definitely one reason. Also note that streaming from host TiVo adds extra burden on that TiVo and slows it down, so no sense in having that extra load if nobody is making use of it. P4 units are already slow enough without that extra burden. But it's also useful when you have more than 1 Mini in the house and forget to get out of live TV mode on 1 of them. Personally I do like having this feature, but would be nice if TiVo made it configurable so you could either adjust timeout time including option for no timeout depending on your preference.


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## bradleys

Wouldn't an HDMI handshake indicate that MINI was connected to a Television in an ON state?

If the Television is ON, then the MINI should not time out.

Does that make sense?


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## lessd

bradleys said:


> Wouldn't an HDMI handshake indicate that MINI was connected to a Television in an ON state?
> 
> If the Television is ON, then the MINI should not time out.
> 
> Does that make sense?


:up:


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## moyekj

bradleys said:


> Wouldn't an HDMI handshake indicate that MINI was connected to a Television in an ON state?
> 
> If the Television is ON, then the MINI should not time out.
> 
> Does that make sense?


 Not necessarily. What if I'm connecting through a receiver or HDMI switch or active splitter that is always on? Some TVs keep the HDMI handshake alive even when TV is off. What if I use the component breakout cable to connect to TV instead and not HDMI at all? There's too many permutations of connections to be able to make assumptions based on HDMI connection.


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## Arcady

Some TV sets keep the HDMI handshake even when off. I know mine does. That's why the component outputs on a regular TiVo keep working even when I shut off the TV. On my old TV, the handshake broke when the TV was off, and I got a warning on the component outputs instead of video.

edit: I didn't see the comment above this one when I replied.


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## ckelly33

I'm considering a mini and I'm not sure I understand all of this. How does the time out work? If I'm watching a long football game is it going to ask me if I am still watching?


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## aaronwt

ckelly33 said:


> I'm considering a mini and I'm not sure I understand all of this. How does the time out work? If I'm watching a long football game is it going to ask me if I am still watching?


If you don't use the remote for a certain amount of time.


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## moyekj

ckelly33 said:


> I'm considering a mini and I'm not sure I understand all of this. How does the time out work? If I'm watching a long football game is it going to ask me if I am still watching?


 Only if you never touch the remote for more than 90 minutes while watching. Personally I'm always using the remote periodically for something - either skipping commercials or adjusting sound or something, so it's never been an issue for me.


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## HenryFarpolo

It isn't an issue for me, but it irritates my wife which by default makes it an issue for me.


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## Loach

The time-out has become more annoying for me since the 20.3.1 update. Now when I receive the "Are you still there?" message and select "OK" to clear it, video and audio cease for a second or two. I don't actually miss any video or audio - it just seems to delay it like hitting the pause button would. Then when it comes back, I have to hit the Jump or FF button to get back to truly live TV. Really annoying when watching a sporting event.


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## lpwcomp

aaronwt said:


> I would hate for them to get rid of this. The thing they need to add is the ability to make it shorter.
> One night in my bedroom I wanted to watch something. But the Mini from the other room was still connected since it had not been 90 minutes yet. So I had to get up to address the Mini in the other room. If the timer had been 30 minutes or even less in that instance I would have never needed to get out of bed to be able to view a channel on the Mini in my bedrom


Do you not have a smart phone?


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## jmpage2

lpwcomp said:


> Do you not have a smart phone?


That's a rather wise-ass kind of remark to a legitimate problem. Not to mention, hmmm... let's fire up the TiVo app, then let's find that particular TiVo, then let's go ahead and exit the live TV so that I can tune a channel on this local tivo.

Or, my fat ass could burn a few calories and walk 100 feet and do it with the IR remote.


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## Grakthis

moyekj said:


> Not necessarily. What if I'm connecting through a receiver or HDMI switch or active splitter that is always on? Some TVs keep the HDMI handshake alive even when TV is off. What if I use the component breakout cable to connect to TV instead and not HDMI at all? There's too many permutations of connections to be able to make assumptions based on HDMI connection.


Seems like it's simple to have a setting in the mini that says "timeout: never, HDMI handshaking, 30, 60, 90"

I mean, of course, you change the wording on that to be like "when should the mini release it's video stream back to the Premier to reduce bandwidth and free up the tuner?"

"Never."
"Anytime the TV is detected to be off (may not work on all TVs)"
"30 minutes"
"60 Minutes"
"90 Minutes (default)"

Of course, TiVo has to care about this before they will fix it.

I do not own a Mini, but my intention has been to watch them and possibly buy one someday when I move to a larger house with a basement TV.

Knowing about this timeout, however, I am now far more inclined to go a different route.


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## jmpage2

I've seen many people complain about this, but has anyone actually contacted TiVo directly by phone to complain about it and insist the issue get escalated? Sometimes this is the only way the engineers doing the software find out about the problem and desired change.


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## lpwcomp

jmpage2 said:


> That's a rather wise-ass kind of remark to a legitimate problem. Not to mention, hmmm... let's fire up the TiVo app, then let's find that particular TiVo, then let's go ahead and exit the live TV so that I can tune a channel on this local tivo.
> 
> Or, my fat ass could burn a few calories and walk 100 feet and do it with the IR remote.


And you're calling *my* remark "Wise-ass"? You totally ignored the fact that for the poster to whom my response was intended, it was more than just "walking a hundred feet", he had to disarm his alarm system. Admittedly that is at least partially my fault since, while I had read the post in which he mentioned that fact, I quoted an earlier post if his..


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## aaronwt

lpwcomp said:


> Do you not have a smart phone?


Not in my bedroom. My cell phone rarely goes past the entry door since that is where the charging station is and it connects to my cordless phone over BT. So as soon as I come in the cellphone goes on the charger and it has automatically connected so that I can make or receive any calls on my cordless phone from my personal cellphone, my work cell phone, and my landline.

And my tablets were not in the bedroom either.


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## lpwcomp

aaronwt said:


> Not in my bedroom. My cell phone rarely goes past the entry door since that is where the charging station is and it connects to my cordless phone over BT. So as soon as I come in the cellphone goes on the charger and it has automatically connected so that I can make or receive any calls on my cordless phone from my personal cellphone, my work cell phone, and my landline.
> 
> And my tablets were not in the bedroom either.


Ah, OK. So much for that idea.


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## Jeremy5

Giving this thread a bump. I just returned to TiVo with a new Roamio and two minis after a several year hiatus. While I am generally happy with what I've found, the time-out is my number one gripe. I like to sleep with the TV on, and no longer can. In my office, I like to have the TV on in the background and not have to fumble for the remote every 90 minutes. 

TiVo, please give us a choice! I do not ever need my Roamio to have all 6 tuners and would happily choose a "never time-out" setting.


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## lessd

Jeremy5 said:


> Giving this thread a bump. I just returned to TiVo with a new Roamio and two minis after a several year hiatus. While I am generally happy with what I've found, the time-out is my number one gripe. I like to sleep with the TV on, and no longer can. In my office, I like to have the TV on in the background and not have to fumble for the remote every 90 minutes.
> 
> TiVo, please give us a choice! I do not ever need my Roamio to have all 6 tuners and would happily choose a "never time-out" setting.


I don't think it is giving you all your tuners is the main reason for this as in the TP-4 one tuner is set only for the Mini (until DTA if ever) I think this time out is TiVo answer to keeping your network traffic down, but just give us some options TiVo.


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## moyekj

For those with a server running 24/7 one potential workaround is to have a simple program that uses the telnet capability to mimic a remote key press on the Mini every 60 minutes or so to prevent the timeout from happening.


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## lpwcomp

lessd said:


> I don't think it is giving you all your tuners is the main reason for this as in the TP-4 one tuner is set only for the Mini (until DTA if ever) I think this time out is TiVo answer to keeping your network traffic down, but just give us some options TiVo.


Options would be nice, but while network traffic might be a consideration, I think it is also a tuner issue.

Question for those with a Mini and a Roamio - if all of the other tuners are recording something, are you given the option to let the tuner you are watching on the Mini change the channel and start recording? And default to a "yes" if there is no response? IOW, does it work like watching "live" TV on a TiVo?


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## moyekj

lpwcomp said:


> Question for those with a Mini and a Roamio - if all of the other tuners are recording something, are you given the option to let the tuner you are watching on the Mini change the channel and start recording? And default to a "yes" if there is no response? IOW, does it work like watching "live" TV on a TiVo?


 If the host Roamio needs the tuner being used by Mini to record something it will prompt the Mini user if it's OK to take the tuner, with default answer of yes. So if Mini user does nothing then the tuner is taken by the host Roamio.


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## lessd

lpwcomp said:


> Options would be nice, but while network traffic might be a consideration, I think it is also a tuner issue.


It can't be a tuner issue as when the Mini first came out as you had to assign a tuner from your Premiere 4 for the Mini, so you only had 3 tuners to record, Mini on or off, and for the Roamio, if it needs a tuner to record it will ask the Mini to give up its tuner, default is yes. The only logic I can see with this Mini time out is network traffic reduction and maybe some power reduction also (to get a green rating ??).


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> It can't be a tuner issue as when the Mini first came out as you had to assign a tuner from your Premiere 4 for the Mini, so you only had 3 tuners to record, Mini on or off, and for the Roamio, if it needs a tuner to record it will ask the Mini to give up its tuner, default is yes. The only logic I can see with this Mini time out is network traffic reduction and maybe some power reduction also (to get a green rating ??).


My Minis use around 5.7 watts while streaming a channel and around 5.2 watts when just in the menus. A half watt savings is not very much.

If I put the Mini in standby it uses 4.4 watts. But you have to manually put the Mini in standby.


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> My Minis use around 5.7 watts while streaming a channel and around 5.2 watts when just in the menus. A half watt savings is not very much.
> 
> If I put the Mini in standby it uses 4.4 watts. But you have to manually put the Mini in standby.


The 1/2 watt is still a 9% savings, I don't know what it takes to get this new green rating, and I don't know if the network system uses more power when the Mini is showing a channel, what about the Roamio (or TP-4) the Mini is connected to, any power savings when the Mini goes off line??


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> The 1/2 watt is still a 9% savings, I don't know what it takes to get this new green rating, and I don't know if the network system uses more power when the Mini is showing a channel, what about the Roamio (or TP-4) the Mini is connected to, any power savings when the Mini goes off line??


I don't recall specifically checking my Roamio power usage when streaming to my Minis. I'll need to look at it sometime.


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## aaronwt

I just checked the power usage of my Romaio Pro. When streaming live channels concurrently to both of my TiVo Minis, the power usage of my Pro increased by .2 to .3 watts. This was also while one recording was taking place.


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## slowbiscuit

lessd said:


> The 1/2 watt is still a 9% savings


LOL - there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.


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## cr33p

Has anyone analyzed the differences in power usage using MOCA vs Ethernet?


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## lessd

slowbiscuit said:


> LOL - there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.


I only guessing as to why they put this timeout in the Mini without any user control, does not seem to make sense as some people use (or want to use) the Mini to have the TV on all night in the bedroom, or in a workout room where your spending more than 90 minutes working out and want the TV on (or the kitchen for background TV) .


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## swerver

Well I for one like it, built in sleep timer for my bedroom tv, unlike you goofballs I like the tv off when I sleep. But I definitely agree it should be configurable.


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## Bigg

They should make it user configureable... however, people should NOT be sleeping with the TV on. It is not healthy to have excess noise and light in your room while you are sleeping.


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## aaronwt

Bigg said:


> They should make it user configureable... however, people should NOT be sleeping with the TV on. It is not healthy to have excess noise and light in your room while you are sleeping.


??? How is it not healthy? If it helps people sleep then I would think it's healthy. Personally I don;t sleep with my TV on, but I have a very difficult time sleeping with little to no ambient noise. I need some ambient noise, like a fan or heat pump outside and I will fall right asleep. If it's quiet I will toss and turn for hours since I can hear every little noise from all over. Like insects outside, creaks from things expanding and contracting, people talking or using the bathroom from 2 floors up. I hear too much when it's quiet. I need some ambient noise to drown it out. I'll even hear a watch or clocking ticking from down the hall which along with the sound of running water are two of the most annoying sounds to me. And I can't use ear plugs because then I will hear my blood flowing and my heartbeat. WHich will prevent me from sleeping as well.


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## moyekj

aaronwt said:


> ??? How is it not healthy? If it helps people sleep then I would think it's healthy. Personally I don;t sleep with my TV on, but I have a very difficult time sleeping with little to no ambient noise. I need some ambient noise, like a fan or heat pump outside and I will fall right asleep. If it's quiet I will toss and turn for hours since I can hear every little noise from all over. Like insects outside, creaks from things expanding and contracting, people talking or using the bathroom from 2 floors up. I hear too much when it's quiet. I need some ambient noise to drown it out. I'll even hear a watch or clocking ticking from down the hall which along with the sound of running water are two of the most annoying sounds to me. And I can't use ear plugs because then I will hear my blood flowing and my heartbeat. WHich will prevent me from sleeping as well.


 That's why I love bathroom fans - nice white noise to sleep to. Short of that or when away from home there's lots of white noise devices available. I took a 5 min white noise mp3 and spliced together an 8 hour version that I will typically play at night when away from home in hotel rooms that don't have good bathroom fans.


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## Digital Man

You guys should consider purchasing a cheap white noise machine rather than leaving the TV on. We have one in our bedroom and it works great. There are also white noise machine apps for smartphones that I use when I travel.

Guy


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## Bigg

aaronwt said:


> ??? How is it not healthy? If it helps people sleep then I would think it's healthy. Personally I don;t sleep with my TV on, but I have a very difficult time sleeping with little to no ambient noise. I need some ambient noise, like a fan or heat pump outside and I will fall right asleep. If it's quiet I will toss and turn for hours since I can hear every little noise from all over. Like insects outside, creaks from things expanding and contracting, people talking or using the bathroom from 2 floors up. I hear too much when it's quiet. I need some ambient noise to drown it out. I'll even hear a watch or clocking ticking from down the hall which along with the sound of running water are two of the most annoying sounds to me. And I can't use ear plugs because then I will hear my blood flowing and my heartbeat. WHich will prevent me from sleeping as well.





moyekj said:


> That's why I love bathroom fans - nice white noise to sleep to. Short of that or when away from home there's lots of white noise devices available. I took a 5 min white noise mp3 and spliced together an 8 hour version that I will typically play at night when away from home in hotel rooms that don't have good bathroom fans.


White noise is fine. Light and TV sound is not. Ambient noise machine is fine, so is running a fan (or A/C in the summer).


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## jmpage2

I participate in lots of forums, but I have never seen a forum where any topic gets consistently (and completely) off topic by page 3 than TCF.


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## lpwcomp

jmpage2 said:


> I participate in lots of forums, but I have never seen a forum where any topic gets consistently (and completely) off topic by page 3 than TCF.


Lots of irony in play too.


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## gweempose

We have an air purifier in our bedroom. Not only does the white noise from the fan help us sleep at night, but it cleans the air to boot.


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## lessd

gweempose said:


> We have an air purifier in our bedroom. Not only does the white noise from the fan help us sleep at night, but it cleans the air to boot.


*Come on now !* we are taking about the Mini 90 min. time out not how to sleep, if we want advice on how to go to sleep start a *Thread* on that subject.


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## Loach

Loach said:


> The time-out has become more annoying for me since the 20.3.1 update. Now when I receive the "Are you still there?" message and select "OK" to clear it, video and audio cease for a second or two. I don't actually miss any video or audio - it just seems to delay it like hitting the pause button would. Then when it comes back, I have to hit the Jump or FF button to get back to truly live TV. Really annoying when watching a sporting event.


This problem appears to be gone after this week's Mini software update. Got a timeout warning while watching football today and when I cleared it there was no interruption in video or audio. :up:


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## dianebrat

Loach said:


> This problem appears to be gone after this week's Mini software update. Got a timeout warning while watching football today and when I cleared it there was no interruption in video or audio. :up:


Did you read the update thread? it's clearly mentioned that one of the updates was swapping it from 90 min to 4 hrs.


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## Jeremy5

dianebrat said:


> Did you read the update thread? it's clearly mentioned that one of the updates was swapping it from 90 min to 4 hrs.


I would suggest that you might be the one who needs to re-read Loach's post.


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## dianebrat

Jeremy5 said:


> I would suggest that you might be the one who needs to re-read Loach's post.


nope, no need.. while not 100% on target, there was an update in the time out logic that would suggest they have tweaked it, especially with Loach saying the issue was resolved.


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## Loach

dianebrat said:


> Did you read the update thread? it's clearly mentioned that one of the updates was swapping it from 90 min to 4 hrs.


Yes, I'm aware of that, but it is unrelated to the problem I was referencing. My post is about a problem I was having upon clearing the timeout message.

Incidentally, my Mini still times out after 90 minutes. As referenced in another thread, I apparently need the Mini to phone home to activate the longer timeout, which TiVo inadvertently didn't push with the original update.


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## hershey4

sbiller said:


> ....While I agree with making the timeout adjustable and being able to disable the feature, I wonder if the introduction of dynamic tuner allocation this fall will change the behavior of auto-sleep. ...


Darn, I noticed auto-sleep not working last 2 nights and I was afraid that the new Premiere update was responsible. I'm a light sleeper and I HATE waking up to audio in the middle of the night. I loved the 90 min auto time-out (although, yes I would prefer to set the time).

My TV's sleep timer is buried in a million menus and is a PITA to deal with every night. Auto was perfect for me.

Technically, i don't understand the internals and why you connected the two things, but it seems you were right.


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## moyekj

The timeout is now 4 hours instead of 90 minutes. TiVo chose to hard code another arbitrary number rather than giving users a choice.


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## weedwhacker2

Tivo 

Please give us the option of setting the "are you still watching" time period.


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## dallyn

moyekj said:


> For those with a server running 24/7 one potential workaround is to have a simple program that uses the telnet capability to mimic a remote key press on the Mini every 60 minutes or so to prevent the timeout from happening.


This is what I am looking for. I will be putting a mini in my garage so my dogs have constant music or tv playing. It keeps down on outside noise upsetting them. The timeout is going to be difficult. Do you know where such a program can be had? I have been searching for a couple of days now and cannot find what I am looking for. with all the network remote programs out there right now, you would think that one of them would work this way....


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## moyekj

Here's a minimal python sample script to do it. This sample script will send a down arrow press to configured mini IP every 180 minutes or so.
(Obviously you need to adjust the mini_ip setting accordingly and you may want to choose a different code to send than down arrow).

(Most of this comes directly from wmcbrine's tivoremote python code).

Save following code to a file say called ping_mini.py and obviously you need python installed to run it.


Code:


import socket
import sys
import time

mini_ip = '192.168.10.173'
sleep_interval_mins = 180
sock = ''

def connect():
    try:
        global sock
        sock = socket.socket()
        sock.settimeout(5)
        sock.connect((mini_ip, 31339))
    except Exception, msg:
        msg = 'Could not connect to %s:\n%s' % (mini_ip, msg)
        sys.stderr.write(msg  + '\n')

def send(message):
    global sock
    if not sock:
        connect()
    try:
        sock.sendall(message)
        time.sleep(0.1)
    except Exception, msg:
        sys.stderr.write(msg  + '\n')

while True:        
   send('IRCODE DOWN\r')
   time.sleep(sleep_interval_mins*60);


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## telemark

dallyn said:


> I will be putting a mini in my garage so my dogs have constant music or tv playing.


There's cheaper hardware than a Mini. Like a RaspberryPi or Roku stick or Chromecast.

>you may want to choose a different code to send than down arrow).

What do these do on a mini?
MUTE
VOLUMEDOWN
VOLUMEUP
TVINPUT

Beacon might be useful for households with a lot of mini's.
[foreach Mini]

If you close the connection after "send", some other remotes might be able to connect in the interim. Dunno, maybe on that one.


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## dallyn

Thank you! I will go install python. I have spent the last bit trying to learn how to build something in Expect that will take care of doing it, and then put something in windows scheduler, but this seems much better...

The reason I will be using a mini is that I work for the cable company, and so the extra mini will be very inexpensive, and I do still watch tv when I am out there. one of my dogs really likes HGTV.


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## wkearney99

moyekj said:


> Here's a minimal python sample script to do it. This sample script will send a down arrow press to configured mini IP every 180 minutes or so.
> (Obviously you need to adjust the mini_ip setting accordingly and you may want to choose a different code to send than down arrow).
> 
> (Most of this comes directly from wmcbrine's tivoremote python code).
> 
> Save following code to a file say called ping_mini.py and obviously you need python installed to run it.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> import socket
> import sys
> import time
> 
> mini_ip = '192.168.10.173'
> sleep_interval_mins = 180
> sock = ''
> 
> def connect():
> try:
> global sock
> sock = socket.socket()
> sock.settimeout(5)
> sock.connect((mini_ip, 31339))
> except Exception, msg:
> msg = 'Could not connect to %s:\n%s' % (mini_ip, msg)
> sys.stderr.write(msg  + '\n')
> 
> def send(message):
> global sock
> if not sock:
> connect()
> try:
> sock.sendall(message)
> time.sleep(0.1)
> except Exception, msg:
> sys.stderr.write(msg  + '\n')
> 
> while True:
> send('IRCODE DOWN\r')
> time.sleep(sleep_interval_mins*60);


When using timed activities it's often better to use the operating system's own task scheduling commands. That way you're leaving a program running, possibly interfering with the computer's ability to use power management, sleep or other features. Windows, linux, Mac; they all have some sort of task scheduling framework, use that instead.


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## Fofer

moyekj said:


> The timeout is now 4 hours instead of 90 minutes. TiVo chose to hard code another arbitrary number rather than giving users a choice.


With dynamic tuner allocation now in place, why is any timeout required at all?

Sometimes I like to leave live TV on all day. Or all night while I sleep. Why does a TiVo Mini max out at 4 hours?


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## CrispyCritter

Fofer said:


> With dynamic tuner allocation now in place, why is any timeout required at all?
> 
> Sometimes I like to leave live TV on all day. Or all night while I sleep. Why does a TiVo Mini max out at 4 hours?


Because they don't have dynamic tuner de-allocation?
If you've got 4 Minis in the house, then what you describe will turn a Roamio Pro into a 2 tuner DVR, which most folks would regard as insufficient.


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## Fofer

Then they should have dynamic tuner de-allocation. What they have now (yet again, thanks TiVo  ) sounds like a half-hearted kludge.


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## lpwcomp

Fofer said:


> Then they should have dynamic tuner de-allocation. What they have now (yet again, thanks TiVo  ) sounds like a half-hearted kludge.


 That's essentially what you have now. What *you *want is for a tuner to remain allocated to a mini until *explicitly* released.


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## Fofer

lpwcomp said:


> That's essentially what you have now. What you want is for a tuner to remain allocated to a mini until explicitly released.


Tomato, tomahtoe. I just want to leave the TV on for as long as I want to leave it on, playing live TV, without me having to trick it or fiddle with it.

You know, like we've been able to do with TVs since the invention of TV's?


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## CrispyCritter

Fofer said:


> Then they should have dynamic tuner de-allocation. What they have now (yet again, thanks TiVo  ) sounds like a half-hearted kludge.


That sounds very selfish on your part. It wasn't a half-hearted kludge by TiVo, it was addressing a different audience than YOU. The Roamio/multiple Minis is a whole-house DVR solution, and that isn't satisfied by what YOU want. (Dynamic tuner de-allocation has major problems in a family environment - there are no good answers, and what they have works reasonably for most folks.)


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## Fofer

So wishing for a user option that allows the user to choose the length of time before live TV "times out" (yes, including an option for "never") is "selfish" on my part?

Ooooookay. Whatever, man. What about homes with only one person, but multiple TV's? 

A user option would make everyone happy.


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## lpwcomp

Fofer said:


> So wishing for a user option that allows the user to choose the length of time before live TV "times out" (yes, including an option for "never") is "selfish" on my part?
> 
> Ooooookay. Whatever, man. What about homes with only one person, but multiple TV's?
> 
> A user option would make everyone happy.


Agreed. But that is not what you asked for:



> With dynamic tuner allocation now in place, why is any timeout required at all?


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## CrispyCritter

Fofer said:


> So wishing for a user option that allows the user to choose the length of time before live TV "times out" (yes, including an option for "never") is "selfish" on my part?
> 
> Ooooookay. Whatever, man. What about homes with only one person, but multiple TV's?
> 
> A user option would make everyone happy.


Wanting an option is fine, calling TiVo's implementation a half-baked kludge because it doesn't address YOUR needs is selfish - TiVo deliberately chose to address their target audience.

TiVo's initial implementation was a half-baked kludge, but it would have satisfied you. They promised to change it as soon as they could, and eventually did.

TiVos would be a hard sell if they added every option that people here have wanted over the years. I agree that it would be better for you with an option, but options are expensive when support staffs has to be trained on them, and the support staffs in question are cable system reps. If TiVo wants to survive, they have to sell their TiVos to cable companies who very strongly are not happy with lots of options.


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## Fofer

Right, so what we're left with is a TiVo Mini that can't simply display live TV all day or all night without manual intervention. LOL. Rationalization's a helluva drug.


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## Fofer

lpwcomp said:


> Agreed. But that is not what you asked for:


Well, when dynamic tuner allocation was bestowed upon us, I guess I just assumed that this would also include (the obvious) tuner de-allocation as well. Silly me, I assumed TiVo's engineers would implement this in a way that was most flexible and elegant and useful, and not just go half-way.

The TiVo Mini should be able to check with the host TiVo and see that no one has used that TiVo for a few hours either, and that there are no conflicting recordings, and there are enough free tuners available for upcoming recordings... and then be able to determine that the TiVo Mini doesn't need to "time out" to free up its tuner.

In the absence of that capability, I would just like to see a user setting, to satisfy everyone's usage pattern.

Regardless of my initial assumption, or what I "asked for" in this thread, I stand by my complaint and appreciate venting here. This strikes me as yet another disappointing implementation on TiVo's part. No surprise though, not do I expect TiVo to change at this point. It's par for the course...


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## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> Right, so what we're left with is a TiVo Mini that can't simply display live TV all day or all night without manual intervention. LOL. Rationalization's a helluva drug.


Well to have live TV playing for close to twelve hours you would need to touch the remote two more times after initially hitting live TV. I don't see the big deal.


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## Fofer

Hmm. I think you've got to spread those touches out, in order to get the full 12 hours though. (The time out is always 4 hours after the last touch, yeah?)

So if I turn it on at around 10 PM, get in bed, and want the TV to be playing all night while I sleep (the audio soothes me,) then what time do you suggest I set the alarm in order to wake up so I can hit the remote control, to maximize the length of live TV playback? Oh, and you suggest I do this twice?


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## lpwcomp

Fofer said:


> Hmm. I think you've got to spread those touches out, in order to get the full 12 hours though. (The time out is always 4 hours after the last touch, yeah?)
> 
> So if I turn it on at around 10 PM, get in bed, and want the TV to be playing all night while I sleep (the audio soothes me,) then what time do you suggest I set the alarm in order to wake up so I can hit the remote control, to maximize the length of live TV playback? Oh, and you suggest I do this twice?


No need to set an alarm. If the loss of audio disturbs you that much, you'll wake up when the tuner is released.


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## Fofer

It's not the loss of audio that disturbs me so much as it's the presence that soothes me. And the TiVo Mini has robbed me of this simple, comforting joy.


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## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> It's not the loss of audio that disturbs me so much as it's the presence that soothes me. And the TiVo Mini has robbed me of this simple, comforting joy.


Swap the locations of the Mini and the main TiVo.


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## lpwcomp

Fofer said:


> It's not the loss of audio that disturbs me so much as it's the presence that soothes me. And the TiVo Mini has robbed me of this simple, comforting joy.


I'm really sorry that a Mini snuck into your house and connected itself to your TV, thus "robbing" you of this small comfort. It is apparently so insidious that it is preventing you from connecting an antenna or swapping it with the full TiVo.

If it doesn't wake you up, then what's the problem?

Plus, I take it you've never experienced multiple, middle-of-the-night EAS alarms as I have.


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## aaronwt

lpwcomp said:


> .............
> 
> Plus, I take it you've never experienced multiple, middle-of-the-night EAS alarms as I have.


 I would probably freak out for a few seconds if I heard that while sleeping.


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## lessd

My wife likes to keep the TV on in both the kitchen and in the bedroom for long periods of time, solution, a Roamio in each of those locations, the Mini in the bath dressing area when she is not going to have the problem. Cost more, yes, but so does a wife fight.

I think TiVo did this to keep the network from a non stop streaming operation, you go on a two week vacation and forget to unallocated the Mini(s) so it will be using the network for the next two weeks, with many Minis in a home this could cause a network problem.


----------

