# Stream will NEVER support android. Product is dead.



## ilovedvrs

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2014/01/tivo-lays-hardware-design-team-gets-ready-exit-hardware/'

screw tivo.... Stream will never get android support.

I am selling my unopened one while I can...


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## stevel

Story is wrong. See follow ups at Ars Technica and elsewhere.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=513841


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## aaronwt

ilovedvrs said:


> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2014/01/tivo-lays-hardware-design-team-gets-ready-exit-hardware/'
> 
> screw tivo.... Stream will never get android support.
> 
> I am selling my unopened one while I can...


You are a little late Rip Van Winkle


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## WhiskeyTango

aaronwt said:


> You are a little late.


And wrong.


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## Dan203

And even if they were exiting the hardware business why would that mean the stream for Android is dead? That's a software update.


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## slowbiscuit

Probably should just delete this completely inaccurate thread Dan, especially since OP crossposted it everywhere.


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## TexasGrillChef

Doesn't bother me one bit! I never liked android devices anyways! Prefer the interface of iOS or Windows over android.

Interesting thing... If android is so much better then windows or iOS, you think that TiVo would make their app for it first!


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## brlf

TexasGrillChef said:


> Doesn't bother me one bit! I never liked android devices anyways! Prefer the interface of iOS or Windows over android.
> 
> Interesting thing... If android is so much better then windows or iOS, you think that TiVo would make their app for it first!


It's not that iOS is better, it was probably that their market research showed that a majority of their users had iPhones over Androids at the time of decision back in 2010-11 when the product was going through requirement gathering. It seems they failed to look outside the San Jose/SF bubble to see that Apple was sitting on a paper throne, market share wise. They missed all the lower cost Android tablets that would become common place in most of their customer's homes and offices.

The entire concept was poorly thought out and executed. They should have build a device that streams to any browser and capitalize on the market of ANYONE UNDER 20 that only watch TV online on computers or tablets. By selecting a technology that was tied to iOS, they neglected defining a larger market and a new generation to potentially capture some brand loyalty from.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE

ilovedvrs said:


> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2014/01/tivo-lays-hardware-design-team-gets-ready-exit-hardware/'
> 
> screw tivo.... Stream will never get android support.
> 
> I am selling my unopened one while I can...


Can I have it?


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## gonzotek

brlf said:


> The entire concept was poorly thought out and executed. They should have build a device that streams to any browser and capitalize on the market of ANYONE UNDER 20 that only watch TV online on computers or tablets. By selecting a technology that was tied to iOS, they neglected defining a larger market and a new generation to potentially capture some brand loyalty from.


There wasn't and still isn't a single end-to-end technology solution that can stream to all browsers (smartphone/tablet mobiles and desktop). And I'm not talking about TiVo specifically, but the whole of the browser and video streaming landscape. You can use Microsoft Smooth Streaming, or Apple's HLS, or MPEG-DASH, or a variety of even less standardized methods, but NONE of them work universally amongst the most popular browsers right now in January of 2014, let alone when the product was being designed. At least by starting with HLS on iOS, they were able to (relatively) quickly launch into a large, and largely unfragmented market. While Android now has a larger share, the OS/device fragmentation it also has means that making a solution work across a majority of the platform is a much more costly thing to do.


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## Dan203

And don't forget that whatever method they used for streaming had to be encrypted and had to be approved by CableLabs. By using an open source protocol with an established encryption method that process was likely a lot easier.


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## FROD

**BUMP**

I have a sweet-a55 Nexus 7 tablet that needs TiVo Stream love. What gives? I mean, I can go out and buy an iPad Mini 3 in October when the new one drops, but I'd rather not.


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## waynomo

This thread should be deleted or closed. Very misleading title and old. 

There are other threads out there with better info about streaming for Android.


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## Dan203

FROD said:


> **BUMP**
> 
> I have a sweet-a55 Nexus 7 tablet that needs TiVo Stream love. What gives? I mean, I can go out and buy an iPad Mini 3 in October when the new one drops, but I'd rather not.


We wish we knew. The only info we have at this point is an RCN employee saying Android streaming is coming soon in a post from a few weeks ago.

It's taken WAY longer then I ever expected for them to get it released.


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## moedaman

waynomo said:


> This thread should be deleted or closed. Very misleading title and old.
> 
> There are other threads out there with better info about streaming for Android.


Why? Here we are, six months later and Stream still doesn't support Android. It's obvious that Tivo takes it's cable partners considerations over it's retail customers considerations.


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## tivohaydon

Dan203 said:


> It's taken WAY longer then I ever expected for them to get it released.


They could have started from nothing from when this thread already called it dead and released a very robust product by now. I've delivered a lot more complex in a lot less time.

This is a terrible joke of business planning, lying to customers or completely off the rails development process. Really inexcusable.


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## aaronwt

The stream will have been out for two years soon. That is a long time to go without Andorid support.


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## Dan203

I agree. Originally I defended their choice to only release for iOS, but after nearly two years they still don't have Android support and that's just ridiculous.


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## PCurry57

I called on this very subject recently. The Android app is getting closer, no date. Rumor is it will have features the iOS app doesn't have; not specified. I'm thinking maybe Chromecast support.


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## slowbiscuit

It's pretty obvious to me that this was never about whether they could do it on 4.x Android devices, it was all about keeping the lawyers happy.

Sadly this is an everyday Tivo issue with the lack of viable competitors (w/Cablecards).


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## telemark

Was there a CableLabs rule about removable storage?

Many androids have to store to micro-SD card.


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## aaronwt

telemark said:


> Was there a CableLabs rule about removable storage?
> 
> Many androids have to store to micro-SD card.


My android phone doesn't even have a micro-SD card slot. It only has internal storage. The one thing I dislike about it.


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## Dan203

telemark said:


> Was there a CableLabs rule about removable storage?
> 
> Many androids have to store to micro-SD card.


There are no CableLabs rules about this at all. The only reason TiVo can do it is because the cable companies set a precedent with their own devices first. That's why you can only download shows which are "copy freely" and you can only stream protected content inside the home. TiVo is walking a very fine line when it comes to legality with the Stream which is why they are probably being so cautious about it.


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## moedaman

Dan203 said:


> There are no CableLabs rules about this at all. The only reason TiVo can do it is because the cable companies set a precedent with their own devices first. That's why you can only download shows which are "copy freely" and you can only stream protected content inside the home. TiVo is walking a very fine line when it comes to legality with the Stream which is why they are probably being so cautious about it.


Meanwhile Echostar/Dish sells Slingboxes and sat receivers with built-in sling features. So you can't blame the content owners on this one.


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## slowbiscuit

Yep, and Sling has an Android app too. And a small company like SiliconDust rolls out an Android app that supports protected content streaming directly from their tuners. Meanwhile Tivo rolls out nothing.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=16528


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## moedaman

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, and Sling has an Android app too. And a small company like SiliconDust rolls out an Android app that supports protected content streaming directly from their tuners. Meanwhile Tivo rolls out nothing.
> 
> http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=16528


I see that protected channels can be streamed also with this app.

After everything is said and done. It becomes pretty obvious that Tivo would rather not do anything to upset it's current and future cableco partners and won't provide certain features to it's retail customers to accomplish this.

I hope that by now, all android users would have given up on the Tivo Stream ever working for them and moved on to Slingbox.


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## JWhites

Personally I'm hoping they roll out updated apps to use higher resolutions and to be able to not use the proxy for OOH streaming. I mean my iPhone has a screen resolution of 1136x640 and even with the best wireless network connection the best the Stream sends to it is 960x540, and my iPad Mini Retina has a screen resolution of 2048×1536 and even with the best wireless network connection the best the Stream sends to it is 1280x720 which isn't bad at all but still not utilizing the full potential the Stream is capable of.


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## slowbiscuit

Which again is an indication that they are covering their ass by using a proxy server (i.e. degrading content delivery), instead of standing up for their customers and allowing direct streaming/download OOH. The problem here, as always, is that Tivo is trying to straddle both sides of the fence. Sling doesn't have these issues because they're not in bed with the cableCos.


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## DancyMunchkin

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, and Sling has an Android app too. And a small company like SiliconDust rolls out an Android app that supports protected content streaming directly from their tuners. Meanwhile Tivo rolls out nothing.
> 
> http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=16528


It is obvious it is not because Tivo *can't* develop an Android app, it is because they don't want to.

Get over it.


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## moedaman

DancyMunchkin said:


> It is obvious it is not because Tivo *can't* develop an Android app, it is because they don't want to.
> 
> Get over it.


I guess that Tivo can get over those missing sales. Tivo is so profitable, who needs sales to Android users?


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## DancyMunchkin

moedaman said:


> I guess that Tivo can get over those missing sales. Tivo is so profitable, who needs sales to Android users?


Tivo made a business decision. Customers need to decide where to spend their money, not decide to p & m on a discussion forum.


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## moedaman

DancyMunchkin said:


> Tivo made a business decision. Customers need to decide where to spend their money, not decide to p & m on a discussion forum.


P & M is one reason discussion forums exist. Are you new to the internet? And I did decide to spend my money on a Slingbox 350. Great decision I must say.


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## DancyMunchkin

moedaman said:


> P & M is one reason discussion forums exist. Are you new to the internet? And I did decide to spend my money on a Slingbox 350. Great decision I must say.


No, I am not new to the Internet, but you must be since you think this is a Slingbox discussion forum.


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## moedaman

DancyMunchkin said:


> No, I am not new to the Internet, but you must be since you think this is a Slingbox discussion forum.


You said that consumers must decide where to spend their money. I answered you with my decision. Sorry if the truth hurts you.


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## DancyMunchkin

moedaman said:


> Sorry if the truth hurts you.


moedaman isn't worth the trouble.


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## SQUIDWARD360

DancyMunchkin said:


> moedaman isn't worth the trouble.


but he is correct


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## Dan203

JWhites said:


> Personally I'm hoping they roll out updated apps to use higher resolutions and to be able to not use the proxy for OOH streaming. I mean my iPhone has a screen resolution of 1136x640 and even with the best wireless network connection the best the Stream sends to it is 960x540, and my iPad Mini Retina has a screen resolution of 2048×1536 and even with the best wireless network connection the best the Stream sends to it is 1280x720 which isn't bad at all but still not utilizing the full potential the Stream is capable of.


The absolute maximum resolution is 1920x1080, so no matter what it would be less then your iPad. And given the screen size of the iPad you'd be very, very, hard pressed to see the difference between a 1280x720 and 1920x1080 stream, so why waste the bandwidth and encoding time?

If you really think there is a difference try it on your own. Download a show to your PC via TiVoToGo then use something like Handbreak to recode the exact same video to those two resolutions and see if you can actually see a difference when played on your iPhone/iPad. You almost certainly wont.

The only reason for them to increase the resolution would be if they supported AirPlay or HDMI out so you could watch on a big screen. They don't currently support that so saving bits and time are better options.


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## Dan203

DancyMunchkin said:


> Tivo made a business decision. Customers need to decide where to spend their money, not decide to p & m on a discussion forum.


At first I would have agreed with you. Back in September of 2012 when the Stream was released it made perfect sense that they only released for iOS. But then in November of that year a TiVo employee posted on this forum that they were working on Android support and their website listed Android support as "coming soon". Now here it is 2 years later and it's still not here. That's just crazy!


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## jpwbikes

It really is amazing that this is taking soooo long!


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## DancyMunchkin

Dan203 said:


> That's just crazy!





jpwbikes said:


> It really is amazing that this is taking soooo long!


The general consensus here seems to be a dedicated team would not need almost 2 years to complete the Android client, therefore there must be another explanation. If we assume the Tivo employee was not lying in November, 2012, then Tivo has made the business decision to either not release the Android client, they put the developers on other projects, e.g., Haxe, etc.

As was mentioned in another thread, there are so many versions of Android, Tivo could have decided they didn't want the support headaches from a product that wouldn't generate any revenue. Would you?


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## telemark

If they're writing the Android client in house, a plausible explanation of what happened is they wanted the haxe rewrite done first. Perhaps it was higher priority or perhaps the haxe code will be used in the Android client.

Adobe suddenly dropped Flash support from Android 2 years ago, so if their original plans were based on that, it could explain what happened.


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## Dan203

I still wonder if the issue is technological or some sort of business issue. They may have finished the app a year ago and just never released it because of some sort of business issue. We really have no idea, we're all just guessing at this point.


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## aaronwt

I don't really care what the reasons are. I just want it released on Android. There is no reason out there that could justify the long delay anyway. A two year delay is pretty much absurd.


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## ejasons

On iOS, TiVo goes to great pains to keep the app from running on jailbroken devices, and disallows video transmission over HDMI over Airplay or HDMI, most likely to keep from cutting into TiVo Mini sales.

I would suspect that the inability to restrict Android in this way is what has resulted in their reticence with the Android app.


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## deaddeeds

Well Tivo needs to suck it up because Android now has 85% of market. Oh how things have rapidly changed in the past few years.

http://www.strategyanalytics.com/default.aspx?mod=reportabstractviewer&a0=9921


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## Diana Collins

DirecTV, a company that earns a 20% profit and has billions in revenue also released streaming to iOS and then took about 2 years to release streaming on Android. Any organization that chooses to stay strictly within the bounds of content protection (IOW they don't want to get sued by Fox, et.al.) finds it MUCH more difficult to code for Android than iOS. The huge variation in hardware, including storage, display size and resolution and processor, among Android devices makes producing almost any app more difficult on Android. Finally, the substantial changes that occur rather frequently in the Android SDK can frustrate development by requiring complete QA cycles on multiple versions on multiple devices.

The very thing that makes Android attractive to users (device variety, ability to customize the UI, etc.) makes it more challenging to developers (at least of anything beyond self contained apps). iOS is just simpler...only four screen sizes, one processor family, one launcher UI, etc. For fun, I wrote an iOS app last year...took me a week and it ran, without modification, on an iPhone 4s, an iPhone 5, an original iPad and an iPad 4 with Retina display. I then ported it to Android and got it running on one device in 5 days. I then gave it to 5 friends to test on their Android phones and tablets. It crashed on everyone one of them. That is why Android apps take so much longer.


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## gamo62

moedaman said:


> I guess that Tivo can get over those missing sales. Tivo is so profitable, who needs sales to Android users?


It doesn't even work on IOS with cable systems that have MPEG 4. Only MPEG 2 is supported.


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## dianebrat

gamo62 said:


> It doesn't even work on IOS with cable systems that have MPEG 4. Only MPEG 2 is supported.


There are no "all MPEG 4" cable systems unless someone recently made the move, at most there are SOME channels you can't use the iOS app for on a system using MPEG 4.


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## Dan203

dianebrat said:


> There are no "all MPEG 4" cable systems unless someone recently made the move, at most there are SOME channels you can't use the iOS app for on a system using MPEG 4.


IIRC gamo62 uses a small regional cable company that does in fact use all MPEG4.


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## dswallow

DancyMunchkin said:


> [...] Tivo could have decided they didn't want the support headaches from a product that wouldn't generate any revenue. Would you?


That could explain the Roamio...


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## dianebrat

Dan203 said:


> IIRC gamo62 uses a small regional cable company that does in fact use all MPEG4.


Wow.. that's new then and certainly not average, this would be why I don't like to use phrases like "never"


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## Austin Bike

deaddeeds said:


> Well Tivo needs to suck it up because Android now has 85% of market. Oh how things have rapidly changed in the past few years.
> 
> http://www.strategyanalytics.com/default.aspx?mod=reportabstractviewer&a0=9921


Yes, while that looks interesting, everyone keeps forgetting that OS fragmentation and device fragmentation make this picture a little hazier.

100% of the ios devices sold since stream came out are capable of running the sw. There is *essentially* 1 version of the OS because when apple brings out a new version of the OS, ~90% are on that version in roughly 90 days. It is a pretty simple model.

On the android side, how many of those phones are running older splinters of the OS or not capable from a CPU standpoint to run the SW? It is far more complicated than raw numbers will expose.

I would like to see it on android as well, but to simply show the phone shipments (especially when most will probably use tablets) is disingenuous at best.


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## SQUIDWARD360

Austin Bike said:


> Yes, while that looks interesting, everyone keeps forgetting that OS fragmentation and device fragmentation make this picture a little hazier.
> 
> 100% of the ios devices sold since stream came out are capable of running the sw. There is *essentially* 1 version of the OS because when apple brings out a new version of the OS, ~90% are on that version in roughly 90 days. It is a pretty simple model.
> 
> On the android side, how many of those phones are running older splinters of the OS or not capable from a CPU standpoint to run the SW? It is far more complicated than raw numbers will expose.
> 
> I would like to see it on android as well, but to simply show the phone shipments (especially when most will probably use tablets) is disingenuous at best.


Showing the phone shipments explain that Tivo should be putting the necessary resources into implementing streaming to Android. Everyone realizes there is fragmentation but we aren't debating the reason of the Stream working with Android at release. We are debating it working 2 years later.


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## telemark

I feel Android hardware fragmentation is blown out of proportion. The differences can be insulated when following best practices which a professional shop would already be doing anyway.

Samsung's shipment numbers are about the same as Apple's in the US, so even if you're going to be lazy, you could get away with targeting one company.

--

If I had to choose one thing that makes it technically harder on Android than iOS, it would be lack of native HLS (an Apple spec) support in Android OS. I believe the SW on the Stream speaks this and Android support for this was previously only via Flash.

http://www.overdigital.com/2013/07/12/how-bad-is-really-hls-on-android/

Adobe has a quality solution for this now, but between when Flash was cancelled and recently, things have been dicey.


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## Austin Bike

It is not the coding (while that is an issue), it is the QA, test and support. The matrix for apple is tiny, the matrix for android is huge. Also, the customer sat issues go through the roof when it works on someone's android, but not my android. Even saying you support on only Samsung, you end up with a bigger matrix than apple, and you end up with every other owner griping about not having support. It's a neutral to lose situation.


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## Time_Lord

deaddeeds said:


> Well Tivo needs to suck it up because Android now has 85% of market. Oh how things have rapidly changed in the past few years.
> 
> http://www.strategyanalytics.com/default.aspx?mod=reportabstractviewer&a0=9921


First I am an Android user and would really like to see the stream work with the Android (as well as with iOS devices)

The numbers are interesting, however the best thing about statistics is you can always find a statistic that proves your point even if its incomplete. Taking the report at face value and assuming its correct (I have no reason to doubt the report) yes, 85% of all handsets world wide are now Android and that is a lot of market share.

Now what you are missing is TiVo aims its products solely at the US market which means TiVo needs to look at what their customer base will most likely be using and a quick Google search shows that the US handset market is only now tilting in Android's favor.

see: http://seekingalpha.com/article/238...e-market-share-decline-is-a-pounding-headache
(page 2 of the article requires a login)

You can see how Apple's share dropped from 50% to 31% from January 2012 to January 2014 and Android in that same time frame increased from 42% to 62%. (again I'm taking the report at face value and I'm assuming the numbers are valid and other reports show similar numbers) But what this report also leaves out is how many of these handsets are actually capable of supporting video streaming if the software was available. TiVo knows that 100% of the Apple hardware can support streaming.

So yes at the time the Stream was released, Apple was the dominant player and according to research that I found online Apple users tend to be more multimedia centric so I'm not surprised TiVo focused solely on iOS since they knew they would get the most bang for the buck initially.

Lastly, I suspect (and have no way of confirming it) that TiVo's developers do their work on Apple products which again leads to focusing on making their products work with one specific brand first.

-TL


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## Grakthis

If TiVo were really worried about fragmentation, they could easily write a Kindle Fire app as a way to prove out the Android platform while having a controlled set of variables. They could also just support Google's reference devices at first. 

Fragmentation is a BS excuse at this point. Anyone citing fragmentation is just reaching for something.


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## dswallow

Considering they demoed an App running on the Amazon Fire TV implementing most of the UI/Features of a Mini, I doubt there's a particularly technical reason behind there being no Android app available.


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## tivohaydon

There are too many successful streaming media applications available on Android for TiVo to say "Oh no, Android is too hard to support". Bad excuse we're giving them here. Red herring.

If TiVo were super concerned they could publish a list of "compatible devices" and let others use it at their own risk. Yes, that draws some ire but not as much as absolutely no support.


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## aaronwt

So still no word? I still can't believe I was hoping that Stream Android support was going to happen before the end of the 2012 NFL season. The 2014 season is getting ready to start.


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## moedaman

DancyMunchkin said:


> moedaman isn't worth the trouble.


Not worth the trouble or not able to logically defend yourself?


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## davezatz

Time_Lord said:


> Now what you are missing is TiVo aims its products solely at the US market which means TiVo needs to look at what their customer base will most likely be using and a quick Google search shows that the US handset market is only now tilting in Android's favor.


About 50% of TiVo subscribers are overseas. US retail market was shrinking for years but is now mostly just stagnant. RCN, a US TiVo MSO, has been pushing TiVo hard on releasing a Android app as Android is what their staff/installers carry. Overseas, here's the Com Hem version of TiVoToGo for Android:

https://www.comhem.se/upptack/nyheter/tivotogo-app-android-52296
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tivo.android.comhem

The streaming scenario overseas is different due to more relaxed licensing. For example, I think TiVo's beefing up their cloud offerings and integrations so content comes from the cableco mothership versus box. And maybe recordings will ultimately go into the cloud, as demoed with their nDVR.

Android support was originally described as 'coming soon' - I think they ran into technical issues and/or replaced the team working this. On the iOS side, a prior contractor was acquired. Wonder if that pushed them to move these sorts of skills in house.


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## telemark

Last time I looked into comHem, I could not find any indication that they put the transcoder chip in that box. (same for Ono and Virgin).

This made me think it's only useful in the US as a legal loophole (like SlingBox).


I'm betting when the Android app comes out, it will use a Haxe codebase which could mean the iOS implementation should get moved over as well.


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## Austin Bike

Grakthis said:


> If TiVo were really worried about fragmentation, they could easily write a Kindle Fire app as a way to prove out the Android platform while having a controlled set of variables. They could also just support Google's reference devices at first.
> 
> Fragmentation is a BS excuse at this point. Anyone citing fragmentation is just reaching for something.


Please explain to us how fragmentation is not an issue. Let's start with the support matrix first, then regression testing on all of the devices and all of the different revs.

Annndddd go:


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## telemark

Here's a set of HLS test videos for Android for giggles:
http://www.jwplayer.com/html5/hls/

Tivo Stream is at least encrypted.


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## tivohaydon

Austin Bike said:


> Please explain to us how fragmentation is not an issue. Let's start with the support matrix first, then regression testing on all of the devices and all of the different revs.
> 
> Annndddd go:


It's not an issue. You make it sound like Android is this impossible to scale mountain. Android already has hundreds of thousands of applications available. There are a lot of people at the top of your mountain laughing.

If what you said was true we'd also never have any Windows applications or games. The PC industry would have collapsed under its own weight two years in. The support and regression testing matrix on PC/Windows is many dimensions larger than Android.

We know how to build abstracted APIs. We know how to write portable code. We know how to do streaming. We know how to display video.

Very similar applications to TiVo's streaming client have already been released on Android and have been around for years. It's BEEN DONE already.

And, if it's still too much of a challenge to do what others have already done, simply don't support every Android device ever released.


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## telemark

I did find at least 3 existing implementations from other vendors.

Simple.TV came out Dec 2013, supports Android 2.2+

SiliconDust, came out Jan 2014, requires:
&#8226;	Android 4.0+ (Ice cream sandwich or higher)
&#8226;	A NEON compatible ARM processor

Comcast X1 DVR with Cloud, limited release Apr 2014, supports Android 4.0+

Comcast is strange in that when you download a show from the DVR to mobile, it's checked out to the device and unavailable on the DVR.

That leaves missing support:
Tivo
Fios


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## Austin Bike

tivohaydon said:


> It's not an issue. You make it sound like Android is this impossible to scale mountain. Android already has hundreds of thousands of applications available. There are a lot of people at the top of your mountain laughing.
> 
> If what you said was true we'd also never have any Windows applications or games. The PC industry would have collapsed under its own weight two years in. The support and regression testing matrix on PC/Windows is many dimensions larger than Android.
> 
> We know how to build abstracted APIs. We know how to write portable code. We know how to do streaming. We know how to display video.
> 
> Very similar applications to TiVo's streaming client have already been released on Android and have been around for years. It's BEEN DONE already.
> 
> And, if it's still too much of a challenge to do what others have already done, simply don't support every Android device ever released.


I am not saying it is impossible, just that it is harder to support than iOS, that is all.

Too many people have tossed around the idea that it is an easy task, but there are plenty of reasons why it is more difficult. It should not take this long, but there are obviously complications somewhere.


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## Dan203

telemark said:


> Comcast is strange in that when you download a show from the DVR to mobile, it's checked out to the device and unavailable on the DVR.


TiVo floated the idea of doing this with the Stream for protected content. The CableCARD rules prevent them from making another copy of a protected show, but it doesn't specifically prohibit them moving the show to another device. So it would be possible for them to allow downloading a protected show to a mobile device as long as it was simultaneously deleted from the source TiVo and never available on both devices at the same time.

Although the "check out" feature sounds cooler as that would prevent the show from being playable on two devices simultaneously but still allow you to restore it to the DVR if you decide you want to watch it on the TV instead.


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## Austin Bike

I like that idea. Especially if the "checkout" checked back on the mobile device. When you would delete it there would be an option to delete or "check it back in" (i.e. make the tivo version active again.

When I go on trips I will dump a bunch of shows on my Ipad. Some I watch and are deleted (would love to have them delete then on my home DVR when I return and sync.) Others I might want to leave for my wife to watch later, so checking them in would be a great choice.


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## Huzordaddy

I believe part of the problem is that Android devices are so easily hacked to provide root access. This would potentially give the user the ability to do whatever with the media that downloads, to get around any restrictions, or to convert the files to other formats.
I have seen apps that refuse to download to rooted android phones.
Although this doesn't really explain why the apple devices don't have any issues with a streaming tivo app.


----------



## Austin Bike

you can hack ios just as easily. I don't think that has anything to do with it. I'd bet that they took a gamble and said "wait for a future release" figuring it would save them time and money in the long run and then ran into a problem with that release.

Used to happen to my old company (semiconductors). You'd hit a problem and find out the next version of the tools will help you, so you wait, only to find out the feature you were banking on is not working right and then you scramble to make it work on a botched plan.

Or not.


----------



## Dan203

The streams themselves are encrypted using a key exchange that happens via SSL so it's basically impossible for it to be hacked to gain access to the stream. You might be able to brute force the encryption on a download, but if TiVo is smart they've built in a way to update the key remotely should that ever happen.

The Microsoft Media Center software, which is approved by cable labs, stores protected content in a standard file on a system that is completely open and yet the encryption scheme still hasn't been hacked. Which proves that content can be protected regardless of how hackable the system is.


----------



## spherular

Finally....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/501353359886934016


----------



## aaronwt

I'll believe it when I see it. If it is true then wow! Android streaming two years after The Stream was released!


----------



## SQUIDWARD360

spherular said:


> Finally....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/501353359886934016


At least there is a approximate date. I'll be surprised to see it in September though.


----------



## bradleys

Now the real question - what software version did they use as the cut off?


----------



## NotNowChief

I'll believe it when I see it.

On or about September 9, 2012 it was launched, it took 2 years..........?


----------



## bradleys

NotNowChief said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> On or about September 9, 2012 it was launched, it took 2 years..........?


Yes, and I think Android has to take part of the blame for that. Even many of the big players didn't deliver an android streamer until late last year.

Because IOS and google cannot agree on a streaming protocol the consumers suffer. Did it take too long? Yes.


----------



## aaronwt

I've been streaming on Android with my Slingplayer 350 I got in October 2012.

And before that I was streaming on Android with my Hava HD Platinum.


----------



## bradleys

aaronwt said:


> I've been streaming on Android with my Slingplayer 350 I got in October 2012.
> 
> And before that I was streaming on Android with my Hava HD Platinum.


Not sure what the Hava HD is, but the Slingplayer doesn't have to provide a secure stream... Nobody said it was impossible to stream media on an Android, that has been available since day one - it is about streaming DRM secure video.

Netflix was the first to put out a secure streaming app in May of 2011 using a proprietary toolset, but many of the smaller streamers struggled for a long time having to wait until Kit Kat was released in September 2013.


----------



## PCurry57

Announced today via Twitter by TiVo, stream comes to android next month


----------



## aaronwt

PCurry57 said:


> Announced today via Twitter by TiVo, stream comes to android next month


2015?


----------



## davezatz

So the question I have isn't related to Amazon Fire tablets... what about Fire TV??


----------



## TiVoMargret

bradleys said:


> Now the real question - what software version did they use as the cut off?


You'll need Android 4.1 or later.

--Margret


----------



## davezatz

TiVoMargret said:


> You'll need Android 4.1 or later.
> 
> --Margret


The forum really needs a "like" or "favorite" button. :up:


----------



## bradleys

davezatz said:


> So the question I have isn't related to Amazon Fire tablets... what about Fire TV??


Boy, that sounds like quite a bit of wishful thinking!!!!!


----------



## bradleys

TiVoMargret said:


> You'll need Android 4.1 or later.
> 
> --Margret


With this little tidbit and based on the reading I have done, I think it is very possible they decided moved to MPEG-DASH - as some have suggested.

Thanks Margret the Android users are looking forward to this release!


----------



## moedaman

bradleys said:


> Thanks Margret the Android users are looking forward to this release!


Well, the ones who haven't moved on are.


----------



## aaronwt

TiVoMargret said:


> You'll need Android 4.1 or later.
> 
> --Margret


4.1? :up: That's great then since my cell phone and tablet are using version 4.4.x. I'm looking forward to trying it out next month!

Thanks for the info!!


----------



## Dan203

Yay, finally! I don't really have an Android tablet, other then a Kindle Fire I use exclusively for Clash of Clans, but I still think it's good news that it's finally coming down the pipe. Might even sway my decision for my next tablet.


----------



## telemark

Can we rename this thread now?

It's misleading and could cause confusion.


----------



## aaronwt

telemark said:


> Can we rename this thread now?
> 
> It's misleading and could cause confusion.


Don't jinx it.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

TiVoMargret said:


> You'll need Android 4.1 or later.
> 
> --Margret


----------



## slowbiscuit

telemark said:


> Can we rename this thread now?
> 
> It's misleading and could cause confusion.


 Announcements are not reality in this space. Wait till it drops.


----------



## jrtroo

I'm blown away by 4.1 being the cut off. I hoped that my now ancient Xoom (March 2011) would work with the stream when it was initially announced, but held little hope as time passed. Right now it is mostly only good for movies and very light surfing, but now it gets a second life!.


----------



## Scott R. Scherr

Will there be support for the Kindle Fire, HD, HDX? Perhaps not for the first two. I think the Kindle Fire HD runs a form of 4.0.3.


----------



## Dan203

The 3rd gen HD and all HDX versions are compatible with 4.2.2 so they should work. But you'll likely need to side load the app. Older HDs and the original fire are based on 4.0.3 so they will not.


----------



## Scott R. Scherr

Thanks, Dan. That is what I thought. It is a little disappointing since my daughters have Kindle Fire HD's (2nd gen), but at least it will work with our phones.


----------



## tivohaydon

I really hope this is for real.

And I really hope it actually works. After all of this time it better be one of the smoothest experiences I've ever had.


----------



## ilovedvrs

"Finally! Very glad to say that our Android streaming app will become available next month! Stay tuned for details. #android #tivoroamio" 6:02 AM - 18 Aug 2014

I got my Roamio & Stream on at my door on Thursday, 08/22/2013 at 1:49 P.M.

So I waited a YEAR for them to tell me I had to wait a another month for a device I purchased but could not use.

Why did they even tell us it would be a month? Why didn't they just release it?
What if in a month it still doesn't work. Are we going to believe anything they say?

Was this just announced so people wouldn't go out and but the new slingbox?

I will not rename the thread until it works....

Since I sold the Stream because I couldn't wait, guess I have to buy it again...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...&tag=microsoftmous-20&linkId=YXAXDRCJCHFAWLR4


----------



## aaronwt

Well they were asking for Beta testers for the Android version. They could find an issue in this phase that requires them to further delay it. Hopefully that doesn't happen but it would seem like a possibility.


----------



## eboydog

aaronwt said:


> Well they were asking for Beta testers for the Android version. They could find an issue in this phase that requires them to further delay it. Hopefully that doesn't happen but it would seem like a possibility.


What's the first rule of fight club?


----------



## slowbiscuit

Dan203 said:


> The 3rd gen HD and all HDX versions are compatible with 4.2.2 so they should work. But you'll likely need to side load the app. Older HDs and the original fire are based on 4.0.3 so they will not.


Yep, looks like I'm going to have to load CyanogenMod 10.2 (or 11) on my Nook HD+ if I want to use the new app, it runs 4.0.3 stock I think. Fortunately CM is pretty stable on the Nook HDs now.


----------



## eboydog

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, looks like I'm going to have to load CyanogenMod 10.2 (or 11) on my Nook HD+ if I want to use the new app, it runs 4.0.3 stock I think. Fortunately CM is pretty stable on the Nook HDs now.


Speculation are that rooted devices won't be supported, the same as jail broken IOS devices won't run without some type of additional app to makes the Apple TiVo app not know the device is jail broken.

I haven't come across myself any android app to make another app belive a device is not rooted when it is, but I would guess there might be such?


----------



## slowbiscuit

Sure, the Xposed framework with RootCloak module is one. The current Tivo app runs just fine on my stock rooted Nook HD+, hopefully that won't change even if you have to use a newer ROM.


----------



## eboydog

slowbiscuit said:


> Sure, the Xposed framework with RootCloak module is one. The current Tivo app runs just fine on my stock rooted Nook HD+, hopefully that won't change even if you have to use a newer ROM.


While I hate to rain on the parade as I myself prefer Android over Apple, I agree that the current Android app works fine one rooted devices but due to copyright restrictions, it's probable that the new proposed Android app will be much different than the current one as there is no media processing capabilities in the existing TiVo Android app.

It's not TiVo that requires such as much as it's Cablecard Labs licensing. One could speculate such is one of the primary reasons it's been held up for so long. As unfortunate as it is, they are for forced to lock out the possibility that video content can be retrieved from the mobile device.

With Android being a fully opened system once root is obtained, I'm guessing the only way to assure such isn't possible is that such an Android app will have code in it that can detect if root privileges are available. Again perhaps they might use a different type of video transport and encrypted storage so it will just have to be a wait and see situation, hey who knows perhaps root won't be a problem but I seriously doubt it.


----------



## JWhites

Got some news from tech support today. Apprently the DVR's, Stream, and both the iOS and Android apps are recieving "groundbreaking" and "revolutionizing" new updates next month.


----------



## bradleys

JWhites said:


> Got some news from tech support today. Apprently the DVR's, Stream, and both the iOS and Android apps are recieving "groundbreaking" and "revolutionizing" new updates next month.


That goes with what I have been "feeling" for a while... Now that the Haxe update is over, I think TiVo has a bunch of stuff ready to move.

Could a whole bunch of the stuff we have been waiting for finally be ready? Wishful thinking?

Only time will tell...


----------



## tivohaydon

JWhites said:


> Got some news from tech support today. Apprently the DVR's, Stream, and both the iOS and Android apps are recieving "groundbreaking" and "revolutionizing" new updates next month.


I hope this doesn't mean that TiVo will bring about "earthquakes" and "war". :-/

I'd be plenty happy with "streaming" and "working".


----------



## JWhites

tivohaydon said:


> I hope this doesn't mean that TiVo will bring about "earthquakes" and "war". :-/
> 
> I'd be plenty happy with "streaming" and "working".


:up: lmao


----------



## davezatz

bradleys said:


> Could a whole bunch of the stuff we have been waiting for finally be ready?


Yes.


----------



## jmckenna7

At least root is easy enough to temporarily disable by just disabling SuperSU in the settings screen. I have to do the with the Starz and Encore streaming apps.


----------



## JWhites

bradleys said:


> That goes with what I have been "feeling" for a while... Now that the Haxe update is over, I think TiVo has a bunch of stuff ready to move.
> 
> Could a whole bunch of the stuff we have been waiting for finally be ready? Wishful thinking?
> 
> Only time will tell...


Personally I'm really hoping TiVo really does away with the whole proxy limitation for out of home streaming, and am also hoping to see higher resolutions used like 1080i/p and Dolby Digital surround sound on devices capable of it, and most importantly the ability to stream H.264 or MPEG4 channels.


----------



## ilovedvrs

I almost guarantee once released the app will not work on most android devices.

I have the Android OnePlus One, will be very sad if it is not supported.


----------



## eboydog

ilovedvrs said:


> I almost guarantee once released the app will not work on most android devices.
> 
> I have the Android OnePlus One, will be very sad if it is not supported.


That's a bad attitude, you must be a glass half empty guy!

What version of Android OS does your have? Those are fairly new devices, don't the come with 4.4?


----------



## eboydog

JWhites said:


> Personally I'm really hoping TiVo really does away with the whole proxy limitation for out of home streaming, and am also hoping to see higher resolutions used like 1080i/p and Dolby Digital surround sound on devices capable of it, and most importantly the ability to stream H.264 or MPEG4 channels.


There is always a trade off for bandwidth versus quality, you can't have both and despite 4G networks becoming more popular, the speed is there but the latency is terrible.


----------



## bradleys

ilovedvrs said:


> I almost guarantee once released the app will not work on most android devices.
> 
> I have the Android OnePlus One, will be very sad if it is not supported.


Stream will support 4.1 (Jelly Bean) and later, the OnePlus One is getting updated to 4.4.4, why would you think it wouldn't be supported?


----------



## bradleys

eboydog said:


> There is always a trade off for bandwidth versus quality, you can't have both and despite 4G networks becoming more popular, the speed is there but the latency is terrible.


I have wifi at my office, but because TiVo uses a proxy, it will not work on my network. I am also hoping to get rid of the TiVo Proxy server!


----------



## eboydog

bradleys said:


> I have wifi at my office, but because TiVo uses a proxy, it will not work on my network. I am also hoping to get rid of the TiVo Proxy server!


Aren't ya suppose to work at work? 

My boss doesn't like it when I watch Breaking Bad in the afternoon....


----------



## bradleys

eboydog said:


> Aren't ya suppose to work at work?
> 
> My boss doesn't like it when I watch Breaking Bad in the afternoon....


Details, details! 

It would have been awesome during the World Cup games...


----------



## ilovedvrs

bradleys said:


> Stream will support 4.1 (Jelly Bean) and later, the OnePlus One is getting updated to 4.4.4, why would you think it wouldn't be supported?


Because the Tivo's engineers are very bad. Because it has taken over an extra year to get support.

Because I am sure they havn't tested with thew newest android or all screen sizes. I really just don't trust Tivo's abilities... Tivo users since S1, 1999


----------



## bradleys

I will agree the fragmentation in the android ecosystem is a challenge - but at this point you are ranting, not making a reasonable argument.

I have been with TiVo for just as long as you have and frankly, you're not being fair. Yes, TiVo has made some missteps and from time to time we have had to deal with issues we should reasonably be able to expect them to deliver correctly.

But TiVo has done a lot correctly... I remember quite well, TiVo putting itself on the line to push for a mechanism for cable integration and provide the first real HDTV DVR option.

Did android streaming take longer than it should - yes, but let's be honest, maybe 8 months longer than it should have. Blame android and Apple for the technology wars for that.

TiVo used flash and the hardware wasn't capable - but pushed for the maturation of Haxe to completely rewrite their software... And back ported it to the Premiere line!

No, I will be the first to claim that TiVo doesn't do everything correctly - but you have to admit TiVo continues to push forward in a space nobody else even attempts.


----------



## slowbiscuit

They do push forward, but a LOT more slowly than they would if they had effective competition pushing them. And with every update it's two steps forward, one back.

Totally disagree about the 8 months, btw - this should have been done at release. IMO it had little to do with fragmentation and everything to do with lawyers.


----------



## bradleys

slowbiscuit said:


> They do push forward, but a LOT more slowly than they would if they had effective competition pushing them. And with every update it's two steps forward, one back.


The first Series 3 was two steps forward and one step back? The Roamio line was two steps forward and one step back? And just how much more competition does TiVo need to be successful? They have all the MSO's breathing down their neck providing "free" DVR's using technology they stole from TiVo!

TiVo would move quicker if it had the resources (revenue) to do so, TiVo is not apple, or Google or Comcast or any of these huge companies with limitless resources.

And yet... The product they provide is still hanging in there. Apple and Google don't see (yet) a market they can dominate so they won't make a competitive product. And you can forget another start-up in this regulated crowded market.

Will cable over IP change that equation? Maybe - only time will tell.



slowbiscuit said:


> Totally disagree about the 8 months, btw - this should have been done at release. IMO it had little to do with fragmentation and everything to do with lawyers.


You can disagree all you want, it doesn't change the reality. Apple / Google technology wars created this issue - and we may very well find that TiVo ends up having to support two disparate streaming / encryption technologies to bring this to market.

TiVo isn't the only company to have problems providing DRM capable streaming to android - but yeah, if they had Netflix resources...

This was the Android world 18 months ago: http://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ategy-for-Video-on-Android-Devices-86846.aspx


----------



## telemark

eboydog said:


> What's the first rule of fight club?


She started it. 



bradleys said:


> Apple and Google doesn't see (yet) a market they can dominate so, they won't make a competitive product. And you can forget another start-up in this regulated crowded market.


I know Tivo users don't see it this way, but from Apple and Google's POV they are already in the market with the Apple TV, AndroidTV and Chromecast. That is considering everything, they felt this was the most lucrative, lowest hanging fruit. Not to berate this point, but remember Google used to own Motorola. They could have made a DVR in the blink of an eye and declined to because they have bigger fish to fry.

If you want more literal competition ... *blink*:
https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/2464928?hl=en
2TB, 8 Tuner


----------



## jrtroo

Well, I have little doubt they *could* dominate, but they see the market for a DVR being simply too small to be cost effective to do so.


----------



## bradleys

telemark said:


> I know Tivo users don't see it this way, but from Apple and Google's POV they are already in the market with the Apple TV, AndroidTV and Chromecast. That is considering everything, they felt this was the most lucrative, lowest hanging fruit. Not to berate this point, but remember Google used to own Motorola. They could have made a DVR in the blink of an eye and declined to because they have bigger fish to fry.


Neither Apple or Google would ever mess with cable cards or nasty cableco legacy distribution... If they are going to get into this market it would be end to end delivery. And I say more power to them, but it is going to take a lot of energy and money to break the cableco monopoly.

Content owners make HUGE money selling distribution rights to Cable Companies. When you are talking about a couple of dollars per month per channel for each subscriber - a lot of people are getting very rich.

This ain't the music industry!


----------



## slowbiscuit

bradleys said:


> The first Series 3 was two steps forward and one step back? The Roamio line was two steps forward and one step back?


I was talking about software updates, not hardware (which this update is).

We'll just have to agree to disagree about why they're so late to market with this, neither you or I know the truth.


----------



## JWhites

bradleys said:


> Neither Apple or Google would ever mess with cable cards or nasty cableco legacy distribution... If they are going to get into this market it would be end to end delivery. And I say more power to them, but it is going to take a lot of energy and money to break the cableco monopoly.
> 
> Content owners make HUGE money selling distribution rights to Cable Companies. When you are talking about a couple of dollars per month per channel for each subscriber - a lot of people are getting very rich.
> 
> This ain't the music industry!


This is probably why the jerks at Google Fiber force customers to use their equipment instead of TiVo's and CableCARDs :down:  Why can't people just accept that TiVo is superior in every way?


----------



## crxssi

jmckenna7 said:


> At least root is easy enough to temporarily disable by just disabling SuperSU in the settings screen. I have to do the with the Starz and Encore streaming apps.


That is no guarantee. There are several ways to detect a rooted device and simply disabling SuperSU will not hide from all of them. But, ya never know.

DRM is a frustrating and annoying cat and mouse game.


----------



## DebiLee

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, looks like I'm going to have to load CyanogenMod 10.2 (or 11) on my Nook HD+ if I want to use the new app, it runs 4.0.3 stock I think. Fortunately CM is pretty stable on the Nook HDs now.


Or just buy a newer device?


----------



## DebiLee

Huzordaddy said:


> I believe part of the problem is that Android devices are so easily hacked to provide root access. This would potentially give the user the ability to do whatever with the media that downloads, to get around any restrictions, or to convert the files to other formats.
> I have seen apps that refuse to download to rooted android phones.
> Although this doesn't really explain why the apple devices don't have any issues with a streaming tivo app.


Someone once told me: "If it wasn't for people trying to circumvent things, and just accepted things for how they are, everything would be easier." I'm not sure if I agree with that but it does make me wonder since a lot of time and resources are put into patching holes and exploits that if left unexploited could be better spent towards innovation of new features and products. Like if the reason why it's taken two years to get Stream working on Android is because people kept doing things that could circumvent copyright restrictions like the example you mention of rooting devices, who wouldn't be livid at those perpetrators? It could have taken two years longer than needed, two years of people badmouthing the engineers whose fault it is not, two years of legitimate Android customers suffering without the ability to stream, two years that could have been better spent improving the performance of the Premiere and Stream and new accessories and products.


----------



## waynomo

Of course there's also the greed factor. Usually it's not the artists either. It's the corporations.


----------



## DebiLee

I'd love to know what TiVo is going to do about getting the word out to all the review websites like CNET and PCMag and PCWorld and Engadget about Android streaming finally being a reality. Two years of bad reviews by reviewers complaining about the lack of Android support, how are they going to fix all this? I mean the Stream is a 9.9 out of 10 on the "can't-live-without-more-important-then-oxygen" scale but potential customers read and hear that it doesn't support Android, and those customers use Android devices, they obviously won't get the Stream. Now that that is no longer a factor, how is TiVo going to get those people back and get a Stream in their house? This is going to be one hell of a marketing campaign if TiVo has any common sense. Yes I'm aware of the argument "The Stream is already built into the Plus and Pro Roamios" but that's not the concern, it's about getting the stand alone Stream into customers homes and use it with the billions and billions of Premiere and base Roamio units already in place. One thought is giving them away for free or at a hugely subsidized price for a promotional period of time. Maybe do a loyalty program for subscribers who have been with the company for a period of time?


----------



## slowbiscuit

DebiLee said:


> Or just buy a newer device?


Send me $200, I'll give you my Paypal email.


----------



## jrtroo

DebiLee said:


> it's about getting the stand alone Stream into customers homes and use it with the billions and billions of Premiere and base Roamio units already in place.


I'm pretty sure its more like hundreds of thousands, tops. 

Also, while I expect they will get this into the applicable press, they are really looking to sell more Roamios with service than stand-alone streams.


----------



## slowbiscuit

DebiLee said:


> Like if the reason why it's taken two years to get Stream working on Android is because people kept doing things that could circumvent copyright restrictions like the example you mention of rooting devices, who wouldn't be livid at those perpetrators? It could have taken two years longer than needed, two years of people badmouthing the engineers whose fault it is not, two years of legitimate Android customers suffering without the ability to stream, two years that could have been better spent improving the performance of the Premiere and Stream and new accessories and products.


You have no freaking idea why it's taken this long to roll out something that should have been there day one, just like the rest of us.


----------



## DebiLee

jrtroo said:


> I'm pretty sure its more like hundreds of thousands, tops.
> 
> Also, while I expect they will get this into the applicable press, they are really looking to sell more Roamios with service than stand-alone streams.


Maybe, but they'd be fools not to since the standalone stream is still required for the base model Roamio, never mind all the aforementioned Premiere units. I think it's a lot more than just hundreds of thousands if you look back at when the Premiere first came out back in 2009 and all the revisions bringing more tuners and THX certifications and larger hard drives and hard drive upgrade retailers like weaKnees. That's like five years of solid, steady sales :up:


----------



## DebiLee

slowbiscuit said:


> You have no freaking idea why it's taken this long to roll out something that should have been there day one, just like the rest of us.


Sorry. You are right, that's why I said "if" and was making suggestions and offering possibilities.  :up:


----------



## jrtroo

DebiLee said:


> That's like five years of solid, steady sales :up:


I would not call Tivo a company with solid, steady sales. Over that period they lost money on operations and reduced customer count significantly. Most of their new customers were in the UK, so those are not even Tivo boxes.


----------



## waynomo

DebiLee said:


> I'd love to know what TiVo is going to do about getting the word out to all the review websites like CNET and PCMag and PCWorld and Engadget about Android streaming finally being a reality.


You don't think they already know?

It's there jobs to know these things. I'm also sure that TiVo is sending out standard press releases.


----------



## JWhites

waynomo said:


> You don't think they already know?
> 
> It's there jobs to know these things. I'm also sure that TiVo is sending out standard press releases.


I agree, but is it too little too late? Has the damage already been done?


----------



## waynomo

JWhites said:


> I agree, but is it too little too late? Has the damage already been done?


Probably. I'm sure some will be repaired, but they've lost revenue they'll never recover.


----------



## JWhites

waynomo said:


> Probably. I'm sure some will be repaired, but they've lost revenue they'll never recover.


Oh I couldn't care less about profit (I'm not TiVo or an investor), I just want TiVo to not think the stand alone stream is a DOA project and stop support. $129 (plus tax) may not be a lot to some people but to me it's an investment.


----------



## JWhites

Dan203 said:


> The absolute maximum resolution is 1920x1080, so no matter what it would be less then your iPad. And given the screen size of the iPad you'd be very, very, hard pressed to see the difference between a 1280x720 and 1920x1080 stream, so why waste the bandwidth and encoding time?
> 
> If you really think there is a difference try it on your own. Download a show to your PC via TiVoToGo then use something like Handbreak to recode the exact same video to those two resolutions and see if you can actually see a difference when played on your iPhone/iPad. You almost certainly wont.
> 
> The only reason for them to increase the resolution would be if they supported AirPlay or HDMI out so you could watch on a big screen. They don't currently support that so saving bits and time are better options.


I was just saying that with tablets on the market like the Samsung Galaxy Note Pro with the 12.2-inch display, it would be nice to utilize the 1080p functionality the Stream is capable of, plus let's not forget about future devices with even larger screens. :up:


----------



## waynomo

I'd love to see what resolution people can differentiate on a 12 inch screen. 

Which brings me to another question... 

There should be no problem casting this to another TV via Chromecast, yes?


----------



## davezatz

waynomo said:


> There should be no problem casting this to another TV via Chromecast, yes?


Highly doubt TiVo would enable relaying this... they're very cautious to not piss off their cable partners (whether or not any of this is documented by Cable Labs).


----------



## bradleys

waynomo said:


> There should be no problem casting this to another TV via Chromecast, yes?


yeah.... No 

This type of question comes up anytime portable content is part of the equation: "how can I get content onto another big screen TV without purchasing another TiVo"

Some of the issue is protection from redistribution - going to your girlfriends house and using your TiVo app and a chromecast to "cast" a show that she isn't subscribed to. Another part of the issue is distributing content via the TiVo mechanisms, and that includes purchasing TiVo devices.

But do not belittle the redistribution aspect of this - Aereo was just shut down for running afoul of redistribution laws.


----------



## JWhites

:up: bradleys


----------



## eboydog

bradleys said:


> yeah.... No
> 
> This type of question comes up anytime portable content is part of the equation: "how can I get content onto another big screen TV without purchasing another TiVo"
> 
> Some of the issue is protection from redistribution - going to your girlfriends house and using your TiVo app and a chromecast to "cast" a show that she isn't subscribed to. Another part of the issue is distributing content via the TiVo mechanisms, and that includes purchasing TiVo devices.
> 
> But do not belittle the redistribution aspect of this - Aereo was just shut down for running afoul of redistribution laws.


I tried that with my girlfriend at her house, Tivo didn't give me half as much hassle as my wife did when she found out....


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## JWhites

lmao :up:


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## ilovedvrs

"become available next month!" is is now next month... where is it already?

or is "next month" == Sept 30th ?


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## aaronwt

Next month is Spetember 1st through September 30th. Anywhere within this time period would be conisidered next month. Although I guess it could be a different year? 

I still need to see it to believe it.


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## BigJimOutlaw

It sounds like the second half to me.

RCN expects the Android app to drop "right before" the beginning of their Tivo software deployment starting on the week of the 30th. So no matter what Tivo's retail box software schedule is, the Android app sounds like a 3rd or 4th week deal.


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## jrtroo

ilovedvrs said:


> "become available next month!" is is now next month... where is it already?
> 
> or is "next month" == Sept 30th ?


If you have been with Tivo since '99, you know the most likely answer to that already.


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## eboydog

I would guess Tivo is a busy place this month, their marketing department is finally waking up with free Roamio's and the new OTA roamio special. Good things come to those who wait and we have waited this long, what's another few weeks? Now if October arrives with nothing, there will be some unhappy campers.


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## JWhites

eboydog said:


> I would guess Tivo is a busy place this month, their marketing department is finally waking up with free Roamio's and the new OTA roamio special. Good things come to those who wait and we have waited this long, what's another few weeks? Now if October arrives with nothing, there will be some unhappy campers.


You bring the torches and I'll bring the pitchforks and we should have no problem finding angry villagers to storm TiVo's castle.


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## Dan203

A post in another thread got me thinking... If TiVo really did implement MPEG-Dash for the Android app then that means they could also make the TiVo app Chromecast aware. Which means you'd be able to extend streaming to another TV in your house for $35. That would be awesome! :up:


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## ilovedvrs

Dan203 said:


> A post in another thread got me thinking... If TiVo really did implement MPEG-Dash for the Android app then that means they could also make the TiVo app Chromecast aware. Which means you'd be able to extend streaming to another TV in your house for $35. That would be awesome! :up:


lol, why would they do that when they charge too much for the tivo mini....


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## Dan203

There is already a rumor that TiVo is going to expand Stream support to ancillary devices...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=520595

and a rumor that they are going to remove the service fee from the TiVo Mini...

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/tivo-to-drop-mini-service-fees/

If both are true then the Chromecast would be the easiest ancillary device to develop for. It has no UI, it just casts from your existing mobile app.


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## JWhites

Dan203 said:


> It has no UI, it just casts from your existing mobile app.


But TiVo is all about the UI, they possibly want their UI on as many devices as possible. It's fully possible that they'd go more towards an Android TV type device and develop a TiVo app that launches a TiVo UI layout to navigate around in. Think iPad or Android tablet experience but on the TV.


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## bradleys

JWhites said:


> But TiVo is all about the UI, they possibly want their UI on as many devices as possible. It's fully possible that they'd go more towards an Android TV type device and develop a TiVo app that launches a TiVo UI layout to navigate around in. Think iPad or Android tablet experience but on the TV.


Dan's request is very cool, from your mobile app navigate, select stream and push it up to a Chromecast enabled TV - should be easy to implement and VERY COOL.

My read from the filings was some kind of dongle that gave you an independent TiVo UI app for the TV.

Frankly, I like Dan's thought better!


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## JWhites

Mmm seems too Google and not enough TiVo for me. I mean unless TiVo puts their brand on it and sells it themselves it's not worth the time, IMO.


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## Dan203

The Chromecast has no UI. It's basically a way to play video on a TV while putting all the control and UI in a mobile app on your phone or tablet. So all your interactions are with the app, which already has a TiVo UI. The Chromecast is just acting as a proxy for the video playback.


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## waynomo

As an extension of what Dan203 is saying, I thought one of the recent Android updates included os support for Chromecast so that basically you could cast anything that was playing on your phone or tablet.


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## Dan203

The problem with that is the phone/tablet has to be on for it to work. A real Chromecast enabled app simply passes off a URL to the Chromecast so it can play the stream directly. At that point the app is only used to send control commands to the Chromecast.


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## gonzotek

Dan203 said:


> The problem with that is the phone/tablet has to be on for it to work. A real Chromecast enabled app simply passes off a URL to the Chromecast so it can play the stream directly. At that point the app is only used to send control commands to the Chromecast.


And the mobile device isn't battery-drained by the playback and a continuous data transmission; and, in the case of streaming media (vs. already downloaded) the wireless bandwidth requirements are approximately halved as well(since the Chromecast gets the data directly from the network, instead of the stream going to the mobile device first than back out to the Chromecast).


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## JWhites

When the Android support is added will the title of the thread be changed?


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## Dan203

No. I like that the OP was so wrong.


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## aaronwt

I'm still waiting for Android support. Is it actually going to be released this month or will it be delayed?


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## Dan203

As far as we know it's still coming this month. TiVo has never been one to give out exact dates though. And there is always the possibility of another delay.


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## JWhites

aaronwt said:


> I'm still waiting for Android support. Is it actually going to be released this month or will it be delayed?


I heard RCN hint at September 29th for Android update.


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## aaronwt

JWhites said:


> I heard RCN hint at September 29th for Android update.


:up: That's my birthday!! That would be a nice Birthday present.


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## JWhites

Oh congrats! Your right that'd be an awesome present


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## ilovedvrs

What is RCN ?


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## aaronwt

ilovedvrs said:


> What is RCN ?


It is a cable company.


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## JWhites

Yeah I saw it on the RCN thread on the dslreports forum.


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## JWhites

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=520804


TiVoMargret said:


> - Note: this release is required in order to use Android Streaming once the new Android App is released (expected at the end of this month)


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## JayBird

I'm still holding out hope for streaming support for my Windows 8 tablet...

Any chance that the changes for supporting Android will make this more of a possible reality, or is it a completely waste of my time to think it's in TiVo's future?


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## BigJimOutlaw

JayBird said:


> I'm still holding out hope for streaming support for my Windows 8 tablet...
> 
> Any chance that the changes for supporting Android will make this more of a possible reality, or is it a completely waste of my time to think it's in TiVo's future?


I would say their summer move to Haxe opened up the door to lots of things as far as their portable strategy is concerned, at least theoretically. But what they choose to do, is anyone's guess still.


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## Dan203

JayBird said:


> I'm still holding out hope for streaming support for my Windows 8 tablet...
> 
> Any chance that the changes for supporting Android will make this more of a possible reality, or is it a completely waste of my time to think it's in TiVo's future?


Possibly. A few of us have speculated that in order to properly support Android they had to add support for MPEG-Dash to the Stream, in addition to HLS which is required for Apple devices. Android does support HLS, but it's finicky so it's more likely they added Dash instead. If that's the case then the possibility for a Windows app increases since Windows does not support HLS at all without a plug-in or 3rd party SDK, but it supports Dash natively.

The bigger issue with a Windows app is the UI. Windows apps are completely different then Andorid and iOS. If they switched development of the mobile app over to Haxe too then that part is as simple as just compiling it for a Windows target. But if each app is being maintained native then it's unlikely since Windows has such a small share in the mobile space.


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## slowbiscuit

JayBird said:


> I'm still holding out hope for streaming support for my Windows 8 tablet...


kmttg can handle that today, assuming you're on a cable system that doesn't protect a lot of content. And you're willing to download shows to the tab, then play.


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## Dan203

slowbiscuit said:


> kmttg can handle that today, assuming you're on a cable system that doesn't protect a lot of content. And you're willing to download shows to the tab, then play.


Not really streaming though. You can download shows in the .tivo format, but true streaming on Windows 8 is not available. Although if they did add Dash support to then you could stream to a browser given a proper URL.


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## slowbiscuit

Yep, that's why I specifically said download. It's not that big a deal.


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## Nak

Dan203 said:


> No. I like that the OP was so wrong.


Only half wrong though. For many the download feature is what is important; with Tivo leaving that out of the Android app it can be argued that the OP wasn't that far off.


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## ilovedvrs

Who votes it will not be released in Sept?


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## ilovedvrs

Nak said:


> Only half wrong though. For many the download feature is what is important; with Tivo leaving that out of the Android app it can be argued that the OP wasn't that far off.


Aye, I only wanted the download feature. Places I go don't have cell service....


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## JWhites

I couldn't care less about the download feature, I just want better out of home and in home streaming and more Stream purchases from Android users.


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## eboydog

ilovedvrs said:


> Who votes it will not be released in Sept?





ilovedvrs said:


> Aye, I only wanted the download feature. Places I go don't have cell service....


Does it really matter? It would appear that even if tivo gave away Roamio's for free, gave everyone lifetime service, provided Stream access to every possible device and threw in $1,000 cash for every subscriber, there would be still be those complain about some aspect of what they didn't do or did in their eyes, wrong.

Yes we have waited longer than perhaps we should have for Android Stream support and sadly enough when it arrives it still won't be enough for some and there will be those such as you that will complain only for the sake of complaining.

As far as restrictions on downloading content goes, in the United States, you need to complain to your government represnetives and the strangle hold, groups such as the cable card labs including your cable company has done to destoy your choices on the distribution of copyrighted material. In other countries were Tivo has not been tied down by legal issues, there hasn't been such an impairment.

Tivo makes the wrong technical choices and they will find themselves out of business just like the broadcast industry did to Aereo. The delay of Android Stream has more to do with legal hoops that have to be carefully navigated, not the technical limitations, strong lobby groups in Washington DC better deserves the brunt of your criticism, not TiVo.


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## ilovedvrs

5 days left till release! woot.


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## ilovedvrs

So we either get the release Today, or Monday or Tues.

Or they lied.


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## SQUIDWARD360

ilovedvrs said:


> So we either get the release Today, or Monday or Tues.
> 
> Or they lied.


I think all 4 are possible. Today 10%, Monday 10%, Tuesday 50%, Lied 30%


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## JWhites

Well looking at that the stand alone Streams I've been told got the new software update yesterday, I'm thinking there is _something_ in motion.


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## bradleys

According to TiVo Support on Twitter, it should be rolling out now!


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## NJ Webel

Lol at the full circle of this thread. Android streaming is dead, long live android streaming!

Let the complaint-fest about interoperability and device-specific issues commence.


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## hefe

The Out of home streaming troubleshooting page at Tivo.com indicates Android support.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2762/



> Overview
> Out-of-home streaming lets you stream content from your compatible TiVo device at home to your iOS or Android device anywhere in the world! Finally, you can watch what you wantwhere you want to.





> TiVo App for Android software version
> 
> Your Android device must be running the TiVo App with software version 2.0 or higher. For more information on TiVo App for Android, see TiVo app for smartphones and tablets.


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## waynomo

Is there any setup or should it just work?


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## hefe

waynomo said:


> Is there any setup or should it just work?


Not sure, but it references app version 2.0, and mine is 1.9.2 and there's no update in the Play store yet.


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## waynomo

The play store still shows version 1.9.1 as the current version.
Oops. Small smeek.

ETA: not sure what I was looking at earlier. Everything now clearly says 1.9.2.


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## SQUIDWARD360

bradleys said:


> According to TiVo Support on Twitter, it should be rolling out now!


I think that tweet only means that the Tivo firmware that is rolling out now supports Android. Not the tivo app software.


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## hefe

SQUIDWARD360 said:


> I think that tweet only means that the Tivo firmware that is rolling out now supports Android. Not the tivo app software.


Exactly. But the implication is there that it's ready to go, so I tweeted back to support to ask them about the app.


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## hefe

And their response is, "Look for an update to the Android app by the end of the month "


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## waynomo

hefe said:


> And their response is, "Look for an update to the Android app by the end of the month "


Did you add the smiley face or was that theirs?


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## JWhites

waynomo said:


> Did you add the smiley face or was that theirs?


If it was over the phone maybe they were smiling while they said it?


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## waynomo

He said it was on Twitter. I found the conversation. Looks like the quote is accurate. It was TiVo's emoticon which is really kind of funny all things considered.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/515562986355060736


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## 1hodgkry

Is there any way to update the firmware on my standalone stream without ever having plugged it in, or pairing it with any devices? If I plug it in to the internet, will it automatically update the firmware? I do not have an IOS device to activate it with.


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## tatergator1

1hodgkry said:


> Is there any way to update the firmware on my standalone stream without ever having plugged it in, or pairing it with any devices? If I plug it in to the internet, will it automatically update the firmware? I do not have an IOS device to activate it with.


Turning it on and plugging it into your router via Ethernet should allow it to update on it's own.


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## 1hodgkry

tatergator1 said:


> Turning it on and plugging it into your router via Ethernet should allow it to update on it's own.


Thanks for the info!


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## waynomo

Does anybody know the process of getting an app update approved at Google play? You think the app could be submitted and waiting for there testing or whatever?


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## Dan203

They probably submitted an early build a while ago and set the release date to whatever day they want it to go live. That way they can just publish the update, which doesn't require the same level of approval, and it will go live without any delays from Google.

At least that's how a lot of folks do it with iTunes. I assume they use the same technique with Google Play.

Although the TiVo app is also on the Amazon Market, so they'll need to update it there too if they plan to support Kindle Fire devices for streaming. (The 2nd gen HD and HDX are running a new enough build of Android)


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## dbpaddler

Good luck with Amazon being timely. Though I just rooted my two fives and put the Play store on them. Should be nice using my 8.9 HDX to stream tivo content. Love that screen.


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## hefe

waynomo said:


> He said it was on Twitter. I found the conversation. Looks like the quote is accurate. It was TiVo's emoticon which is really kind of funny all things considered.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/515562986355060736


Yeah, that's why I put it inside the quotes.


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## waynomo

hefe said:


> Yeah, that's why I put it inside the quotes.


It just seemed so odd for them to do that. It seemed they were really saying


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## crxssi

dbpaddler said:


> I just rooted my two fives and put the Play store on them. Should be nice using my 8.9 HDX to stream tivo content. Love that screen.


I believe the TiVo App specifically will look for rooted devices and refuse to work on them. They do this on iOS already. As to whether a root cloak will work, I guess we wait and see.


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## waynomo

It's alive!


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## ilovedvrs

Ah, good job Tivo for releasing in your Sept time frame! (if only half of the promise!)

you can close this thread now.


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## Grakthis

dbpaddler said:


> Good luck with Amazon being timely. Though I just rooted my two fives and put the Play store on them. Should be nice using my 8.9 HDX to stream tivo content. Love that screen.


You got this to work? I put play services and the play store on my HD and it never really worked right. Most apps will copy over from my Android phone to my Kindle, but some won't.


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## NJ Webel

ilovedvrs said:


> Ah, good job Tivo for releasing in your Sept time frame! (if only half of the promise!)


Here's your other half:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/517000610495733761


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## bradleys

[sarcasm] they should have waited and deployed a complete product! Android is too important to push only part of the service to market!!! [/sarcasm]


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## aaronwt

waynomo said:


> It's alive!


Wow!! I missed all of this yesterday. I had taken the day off and was too busy playing Forza Horizon 2 all day. I need to check things out when I get home tonight since I just downloaded the new TiVo app from the Play Store.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Perhaps someone willing should maintain a clean compatible/not-compatible list with input from others to insert some structure to the chaos. It doesn't sound like it's as simple as "4.1 and higher except for x86 devices" due to some devices apparently not working. (Not me, I don't have any android devices. )


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## aaronwt

Yesterday I tried out the streaming to a Nexus 7 tablet and a Droid DNA phone from the STream in my Roamio Por. It worked very well. I only wish this would have been implemented a long time ago.


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