# Losing non-digital channels daily after update



## cambler (Sep 13, 2003)

Ever since the 11 update, my S3 box with CableCard has been losing analog channels almost daily.

The analog channels provided by my cable company (BroadStripe, formerly Millennium Digital Media) are 2-99. 100 and up are their digital channels. They can be tuned. Any channel 2-99 will get the banner at the top and then immediately clears to a black screen.

A reboot is necessary to get them back.

Again, this started right after the 11 update. I've called Tivo support, but it tells me the wait is over an hour, so I'm going to have to pick a time this weekend to sit around and wait for them on this.

Anyone else experiencing this? Any clue as to the cause? My S2 boxes (using cable boxes controlled by serial) are just fine. Only my S3 box has this problem.


----------



## cambler (Sep 13, 2003)

UPDATE: Tivo customer service says that this is a KNOWN ISSUE after the update, they have quite a few reports of it, and they're investigating.

My HD box is bricked as far as analog channels go about 50&#37; of the day until I get home and reboot it every day, so I hope they hurry.


----------



## njmnguy (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh wow, thanks. I had my own thread on this problem, and I had tried a bunch of things. I thought the problem was someone using Native video mode instead of Hybrid, but it's likely it was actually the reboot that fixed it for me.

Not a fun problem when most of the shows I record are from 2-99.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

My two week old TiVoHD is losing ALL channels daily. I get only a gray screen usually until I call the cable co and have them 'hit' it again. Sometimes, however, the channels come back without a call. Reboot doesn't help. I'm on my third cablecard and 4th cable company truck roll now.

Software is at V11. Using Motorola M-Card

BTW this is my second TiVoHD since Thanksgiving - the first one locked in a power up cycle on the second day I had it and was returned to Amazon.


----------



## mikestanley (Apr 20, 2002)

I am having this problem as well. I only get analog channels from my cable company and get HD OTA. Every day I lose all the analog channels and the only thing that brings them back in a restart, which I have done every day since I got the update last Sunday.

I tried a cold reboot last night hoping it would help, but I'm guessing it won't.

If it is a known issue, I hope it gets fixed quickly, since I've already lost a handful of recordings during times when the channels were lost.


----------



## BubbaFett (Jan 3, 2004)

I just got a refurbished TiVo HD a couple days ago (software version 11) and might be having the same issue. How does it present itself for you? I don't have cablecards installed yet (Comcast is coming tomorrow to install), so right now I just have the cable from the wall plugged into the TiVo. All the analog channels are just black, but the digital channels provided by Comcast as part of their Basic Cable package come in just fine. I had to do a Channel Scan in order for the TiVo to even know the digital channels exist--I still get no program guide info for them, though.

Before I discovered that I could at least see the few digital channels, I found that rebooting did restore the analog channels for a few minutes. If left alone for a while, I'd later find that the TiVo had the 30-minute buffer filled (on both tuners), but the picture was frozen when at the most-recent end of the buffer. If I rewound backwards to watch video from the buffer, it would work, but neither the picture nor the timeline bar would update until I hit Play again. I'd hear the ba-doop ba-doop, see the two green arrows indicating I was fast-forwarding or rewinding, but the marker in the timeline wouldn't move and the picture wouldn't change. Once I hit Play, though, it would essentially "wake up" and jump to the new position.

I did the hard drive test and it passed with no errors. I'm hoping that cablecard installation makes the whole problem go away, but isn't it just supposed to work without cablecards?

Additional info:
* I'm not using a splitter on my cable
* If I run the cable straight into my TV, the TV can tune all the analog and digital channels flawlessly.

What behavior do y'all see when you lose analog channels? Anything like my clumsy description above?

Thanks.


----------



## mikestanley (Apr 20, 2002)

An update on my continued problems. After seeing all analog cable channels (the only thing I get from Knology - I do HD via OTA) disappear every 24 hours for several days, I did a cold reboot by pulling the power cable out of the UPS. I left the Tivo off for a few minutes then powered it on again.

After a day passed with no problems I thought I was out of the woods. After 48 hours passed I figured that was definitely the case. However, within the next 24 hours, I'd lost all analog cable channels again. I restarted the Tivo (via the menu) again and again, within 24 hours, I'd lost all channels again.

So something is still broke. Just not sure what else I can do about it.


----------



## BubbaFett (Jan 3, 2004)

I should update my status too: I got the cablecards installed yesterday (more or less...they're configured wrong due to a different issue with Comcast--they'e only set up for Basic Cable, but I also subscribe to Digital Classic, so I'm currently also missing all the Digital Classic channels), but the same problems remain with the analog channels. I haven't tried a cold reboot yet, but I've done a "warm" reboot which, as others have also seen, fixes the problem temporarily. I consistently lose analog channels within a couple hours.

Guess it's time for a call to TiVo. Great.


----------



## vreug (Dec 16, 2008)

I Just got a Refurb TivoHD a couple of weeks ago and just within the last week I have been having this same problem. All of my cable channels are a blank grey screen. I have to restart the Tivo each evening when I get home from work. I hope they come up with a fix soon. Thanks for the info above. I was going to call Tivo today but will wait since it is a known issue.


----------



## BubbaFett (Jan 3, 2004)

vreug said:


> I was going to call Tivo today but will wait since it is a known issue.


If you have the time (and patience!), it might be worth calling TiVo anyway. They might still not have a solution, but I would guess the more customers gripe about it, the more likely it is that we'll see a fix soon.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

BubbaFett said:


> If you have the time (and patience!), it might be worth calling TiVo anyway. They might still not have a solution, but I would guess the more customers gripe about it, the more likely it is that we'll see a fix soon.


Please do call TiVo. Get this problem on their radar. Get a case number too.


----------



## BubbaFett (Jan 3, 2004)

I called TiVo tonight and the lady with whom I spoke confirmed that losing the analog channels is a known issue. No word as to when they expect to have it fixed (but, in her defense, she's with the CableCARD hotline division, so probably not her expertise...I called the hotline to resolve an unrelated CableCARD issue--I know it's unrelated since I had the problem before the cards were installed), but she did say she'd forward my issue on for whatever that's worth.


----------



## neonzebra (Dec 17, 2001)

I've been having this issue for about a month now. Can't say for sure if it's only been happening since the last software update, but it sounds about right. I've had Comcast come and replace my cablecards twice. Second time was just this morning and when I came back home, the problem appeared again. Will call TiVo customer service tomorrow morning.


----------



## BubbaFett (Jan 3, 2004)

I've started a thread in TiVo's forum for this issue:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10412815

I couldn't find any other posts on their forum about it, so I figured it couldn't hurt to post about it there, too.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I also had this same exact problem this morning with my less than a week old TiVoHD. I had no analog channels but could still get all my digital and high def channels. I had to reboot the TiVo and the problem was fixed.

FWIW, thought I would mention I am using two Motorola S-cards. Cable company couldn't get the M-card to work so they agreed to let me have two S-cards for the price of one M-card.


----------



## Jim_Z (Nov 28, 2008)

I manage my parents Series three TiVo. They live twenty miles from me but I assured them it was "bullet proof". They have OTA only- no cable. About a week ago they started complaining that the analog channels were black. I had them reboot the TiVo and all was well for a few days. Last night I received another call- the analog channels were again all black. A reboot again fixed the problem. The digital channels were fine.
I saw this thread today. I called TiVo. They first wanted me to remove the cable card. When I told him it was OTA only he put me on hold for 5 minutes to "research" the case. When he returned he told me it was a known problem and was being worked on. So much for bullet proof!
Side question- can any one point me towards an application that would allow me to get into TiVo Central?. I know how to remotely schedule recordings via TiVo and I have loaded on my parents PC desktop TiVo for transferring recordings but I want to have all the functionality of TiVo Central. This is a WiFi enabled TiVo and I have remote access to my parents PC via Remote Desktop.
TIA,
Jim


----------



## Rikkster (Jan 15, 2005)

I'm losing the analog 1-99 and all the digital except 200-299. A reboot fixes it temporarily.


----------



## enkil76 (Jul 4, 2002)

A reboot doesn't seem to help my Tivo anymore. Missing a bunch of different channels. I am going to call TWC and Tivo but I am guessing, since it happened after it, that this is all related to v11. Anyone get information on when a fix might be coming? A month without numerous channels seems excessive.


----------



## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

How are all of you sure that 2-99 are analogs? Many cable companies have ADS (analog digital simulcast) so your cable card map could be either digital or analog for those low channels.


----------



## mikestanley (Apr 20, 2002)

I'm sure 2-99 are analog because I only have analog service.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

This happened to me again today. TiVo HD with analog cable and no cable cards.


----------



## elstonhill (Mar 5, 2004)

I called TIVO several days ago about my TIVO suddenly not showing any channels, just gray. This may continue and hour or two and then it comes back. Other times I go to my TIVO and when I switch channels I suddenly lose everything. Twice I rebooted which made the problem disappear for several days.

When I called TIVO, they insisted it was the Cable Companies fault. They wanted to blame the cards or the signal from the Cable Company. When I told the TIVO tech that none of us had this problem until the software update, she told me that the software update could not cause the problem. I insisted she write up the fact that many of us thought it was a software issue.

I called my Cable company, WAVE Cable. They were so much more helpful. The tech I talked with said they had had a bunch of people have this problem after the update. He offered to send someone out to check out my signal. Two men from the Cable company came today. Just after they came, my service failed again. It worked on all the other TV's in the house and my cable company DVR. They checked and I have a strong signal. They said that they had come out to other houses after the software update. They said that since the software update the multichannel cards no longer work properly. They put in one single card and said they would come back tomorrow with another single card since they only had one with them. I guess I wil get charged extra for the second card.

I will update you if this resolves the issue.

I've loved TIVO for so many years and love this TIVO except that it is very distressing to not get some shows because of this issue.


----------



## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

I'm glad this thread exists. On the day I replied to this thread I lost my analog channels for about an hour. My digital stations still worked during that time. I assumed it was a cable card mapping issue but since some of you are only using analog and it happened count me in as experiencing the same issue.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I too have been losing all my channels to gray screens since the V11 update. I've called TiVo 6 times. I'm on my third TiVo and fourth cable card trying to resolve the problem. Mine hold for 15 min to an hour after the cable company sends a hit then disappear when I change channels. They will come and go after that. Mostly they are gone. The diagnostic screens show pairing is ok, they are authorized, SNR is fine yet changing channels tells me I need a cablecard - even on analog channels!

Boxes #2 & 3 work fine without the cablecards.
Box #2 worked fine with the card for the week or so it had V9.4b software. This started happening immediately after the V11 upgrade.
(Box #1 was returned because it hung in a power-up loop).


I have 2 case numbers at TiVo - #10342260 when I first reported the problem, #10503130 for the same problem on the refurb TiVo that they sent me.

My cable company also tells me that this is happening to other TiVo users since V11 and indeed is also happening on a TiVo HD that they bought to troubleshoot the problem.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

I just got my Tivo a few days ago and all most immediate noticed this issue. So I called Tivo and after two hours on the phone I got somebody who told me about the new patch 11BE2, which after manually connect to the services was downloaded. I thought the 11.BE2 patch was helping, but the last couple of days I still loose my SD channels within a 24 hours period (it's usually when I go to bed and wake up in the morning, SD gone). The sad thing is I finally got my cable company to come out and install 2 cable cards so I can get access to my HD channels and I thought I read in a post that if you used digital cable you could workaround this issue. That seems to only be half true, as you just never lose any digital-only channels, so if I didnt need to watch any of my SD channels all would be good. I might stick it out till the last part of my 30 day period and if nothing has improved I might take it all back and go back with the cable company DVR. I have a 3 day business trip coming up and I will have to make other arrangements to record my show which is very frustrating!!!!!! This is what I bought it for!!!!!!


----------



## enkil76 (Jul 4, 2002)

I still have the problem. What is this going on almost 2.5 months? Anyone hear anything on a fix?


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

enkil76 said:


> I still have the problem. What is this going on almost 2.5 months? Anyone hear anything on a fix?


Well Tivo knows it's a problem.. However I don't know why it's taking so long to fix it... The last time I talked to Tivo they told me that version 11.BE2 was supposed to fix it. I was one of the lucky ones who got it , but it doesn't seem to fix the issue totally as, I still loose all non-digital channels it just doesn't happen as quickly... So I am getting very frustrated


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

TiVo representatives are telling people over the phone that a fix is in testing now, and that users can sign up to help test it. If what watssvu says above is true, then TiVo still needs help to get the fix working right.

If you want to help TiVo test a fix, sign up at *TiVo's Field Trials site*. Be sure to use the *same screen name* that you use here, so TiVo knows that you are experiencing the problem.

Signing up is no guarantee that TiVo will pick you, but it increases your chances from none to potentially _much greater than none_ if they recognize you as having a problem for which they are testing a fix.

I would encourage all that are experiencing this problem to sign up above. Once again, use the same screen name that you use here.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

When I came home today. I noticed my Tivo had the "Pending Restart" so I rebooted it and noticed my software version changed from 11.0b.E2-01-2-652 to 11.0b-01-2-652. So I don't know if this update is any better then what I had in terms of the non-digital channels issue.


----------



## E94Allen (Oct 16, 2005)

wagswvu said:


> When I came home today. I noticed my Tivo had the "Pending Restart" so I rebooted it and noticed my software version changed from 11.0b.E2-01-2-652 to 11.0b-01-2-652. So I don't know if this update is any better then what I had in terms of the non-digital channels issue.


We are waiting long enough (without rebooting) to find out for sure if 11.0b fixed this issue or not.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

E94Allen said:


> We are waiting long enough (without rebooting) to find out for sure if 11.0b fixed this issue or not.


Version 11.0b.E2-01-2-652 didn't fix the issue for me. It just seemed to take longer compared to straight Version 11.


----------



## E94Allen (Oct 16, 2005)

wagswvu said:


> Version 11.0b.E2-01-2-652 didn't fix the issue for me. It just seemed to take longer compared to straight Version 11.


The letter E in 11.0b is not the final version. You will get other update one without E in it if you have not gotten it already.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

Well, I was feeling good about this lastest update I got, 11.0b-01-2-652, as I didn't have a problem till I woke up this morning and found the non-digital channels gone.. However, this has been the longest it has went without losing them, around 104 hours. Almost two weeks ago I decided to keep a spreadsheet of when I performed a reset and about how long it took till it would loose the non-digital channels. You can checkout it out below. Anybody
having the same experience?

files.me.com/erwags/oqhbmo


----------



## ilikeyoureyes (Jun 3, 2007)

i just ditched my cable cards last month since v11 made them entirely unreliable in my s3. went to ota and life was good. just added a tivohd and am running into this issue. it is just the opposite of my s3 issue; i'm now losing analog instead of digital. what a pita.
sidenote: i've found that i can fix it by going into check cable signal strength, then exit and myy analogs are back. no need to reboot.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

ilikeyoureyes said:


> i just ditched my cable cards last month since v11 made them entirely unreliable in my s3. went to ota and life was good. just added a tivohd and am running into this issue. it is just the opposite of my s3 issue; i'm now losing analog instead of digital. what a pita.
> sidenote: i've found that i can fix it by going into check cable signal strength, then exit and myy analogs are back. no need to reboot.


I tried that the other day when I lost SD channels. That didn't work for me.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

I have to wonder going from software version 11 to 11.0b.E2-01-2-652 and now to 11.0b-01-2-652 and it still doesn't seem like they have gotten a handle on this issue. I still have hope that it will get fixed but in the meantime I got to figure something out. I go on 3 to 5 days trips all the time and I guess it would be great if my cable company had all the channels I watched in digital or HD, but they don't so some of my stuff doesn't get recorded when this happens. I have only had my TiVo for about a month but this problem seemed to start back in December. So what do you guys who have experienced this longer do?


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

wagswvu said:


> .... I have only had my TiVo for about a month but this problem seemed to start back in December. So what do you guys who have experienced this longer do?


I cuss a lot but it doesn't help much.

Seriously - I use a S2 to backup record analog programs I consider important. I just can't trust the TiVoHD.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

I ran into this thread http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7107875#post7107875 and they are saying the 11.0b-01-2-652, that I currently have, is the final version, which is suppose to fix the non-digital issue. I thought the "b" still meant it was a test version. Did this version fix this issue for any of you guys? because it didn't for me.


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

I called tech support this morning and 11.0b-01-2-652 is the finale version which was supposes to fix this issue. However, after talking with the rep he told me that apparently it didn&#8217;t help everyone. So at some point there would be another update. I would encourage anybody who this update didn&#8217;t help to call up support and get your case updated otherwise they will assume it helped you.


----------



## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

ALL:

I haven't had any of the problems you guys are expierencing on this thread. When the first V11 software deployed, I didn't know it came out, untill one day, I had a spontanious reboot. I was watching a recorded show and my S3 was recording another when it crashed. My S3 is about 2 yrs old and had NEVER done that. A few days later it happened again. It was then I went in to settings, and discovered the new release. The reason I hadn't noticed the new release was because TIVO never sent a message about it.
My S3 is not on highspeed internet, and generally take about 10 min. for a normal connect update. A week or so, later, I noticed a long update, and another new release. This, I think, was the E2 update. I haven't had any more unsolicted reboots. So, E2 seemed to fix that problem. I have NEVER has the issue for losing the analog chanels on cable. My S3 TIVO is on cable with NO cable cards. It's also connected to my outside ant. 

Since I'm not having these problems, I will tell you that I don't use TIVO suggestions. That feature has been know to cause some other issues with previous releases. If you have it enabled, you might try turning it off and see if your trouble clears up.

Don H


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

wtkflhn said:


> ALL:
> 
> I haven't had any of the problems you guys are expierencing on this thread. When the first V11 software deployed, I didn't know it came out, untill one day, I had a spontanious reboot. I was watching a recorded show and my S3 was recording another when it crashed. My S3 is about 2 yrs old and had NEVER done that. A few days later it happened again. It was then I went in to settings, and discovered the new release. The reason I hadn't noticed the new release was because TIVO never sent a message about it.
> My S3 is not on highspeed internet, and generally take about 10 min. for a normal connect update. A week or so, later, I noticed a long update, and another new release. This, I think, was the E2 update. I haven't had any more unsolicted reboots. So, E2 seemed to fix that problem. I have NEVER has the issue for losing the analog chanels on cable. My S3 TIVO is on cable with NO cable cards. It's also connected to my outside ant.
> ...


I have never used Tivo suggestions.. From what you just said, you use an outside ant. ( I do not) and just like the digital tuner for cable cards the ant tuner I don't think is effected by this issue.


----------



## eaglestvo (Dec 27, 2008)

I just recently discovered this problem because my Tivo is not at my main home; it is at my vacation home. I spoke with Tech Support this morning who told me that this is a known problem, but after reading this thread, I see that it has been known since early December!

I use Tivo without Cablecards. We have a very primitive cable system (Charter - Outer Banks, NC) which has very few digital channels anyhow, so basically the majority of the channels go out. In my opinion the core functionality of the Tivo box does not work, has not worked for three months, and has no expected resolution date. 

It is sad to see the Tivo tech team wastes time rolling out new services when the basic box does not work. It is frustrating that the box worked fine until Tivo sends out new software that breaks the box. 

We have many people who stay at our vacation home, and I can't possibly ask each of them to reboot the Tivo box every day just to get basic channels! If the problem persists, I will need to switch to a cable box. I was told that I would be charged an early termination fee (although I purchased no upfront plans). Apparently, I am committed to paying Tivo for 12 months, but they are not committed to provide the most basic service for this box.

Other than needing to reboot the box everyday, I am actually a huge fan of Tivo! It integrates perfectly with my Bose Lifestyle. Also, I just tried out the netflix on demand and watched many hours of movies without a single hitch. I just want the basic box to work!!


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

eaglestvo said:


> I just recently discovered this problem because my Tivo is not at my main home; it is at my vacation home. I spoke with Tech Support this morning who told me that this is a known problem, but after reading this thread, I see that it has been known since early December!
> 
> I use Tivo without Cablecards. We have a very primitive cable system (Charter - Outer Banks, NC) which has very few digital channels anyhow, so basically the majority of the channels go out. In my opinion the core functionality of the Tivo box does not work, has not worked for three months, and has no expected resolution date.
> 
> ...


I feel your pain and I'm sure a lot of people do too.. What make me really angry is that the last update didn't seem to fix this problem. I don't understand why this is so hard to fix considering the length of time this issues has existed. So now we are going to have to wait for another update cycle, and who knows when we will see at patch.


----------



## nm3th (Jan 22, 2009)

I've had my THD for about 2 months now and I've lost my analog cable twice. This time my gf thought she broke the tivo and I had to assure that this is a known problem. Does anyone else have an update as to when this issue might be fixed?


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

nm3th said:


> I've had my THD for about 2 months now and I've lost my analog cable twice. This time my gf thought she broke the tivo and I had to assure that this is a known problem. Does anyone else have an update as to when this issue might be fixed?


I'm afraid at this point it's anybodies guess? I have called support a few time, but can't get them to say anything other then; it's a known problem and we are working on a patch. I have to think it probably going to be awhile considering how long it took 11b to be released from when this was first introduced with 11. I just hope I'm wrong.


----------



## eaglestvo (Dec 27, 2008)

Hey Wags, I noticed on the thread that you mentioned on your 3/12 post somebody mentioned that if you switch to a digital channel then all the channels come back. I tried it tonight and it worked. It is still a PITA but much less so than rebooting the box. My cable co has mostly analog channels, and I do not use cable cards, but if I just switch to a QAM channel and switch back to the analogs, the channels are back on.

Now the main problem is that I can't count on recording something on an analog channel. Tivo.... please listen ..... drop everything and fix your box .... it does not work!!


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

eaglestvo said:


> Hey Wags, I noticed on the thread that you mentioned on your 3/12 post somebody mentioned that if you switch to a digital channel then all the channels come back. I tried it tonight and it worked. It is still a PITA but much less so than rebooting the box. My cable co has mostly analog channels, and I do not use cable cards, but if I just switch to a QAM channel and switch back to the analogs, the channels are back on.
> 
> Now the main problem is that I can't count on recording something on an analog channel. Tivo.... please listen ..... drop everything and fix your box .... it does not work!!


That seems to work and also, if you go to the signal strength diagnostic page and flip to the analog channels. Neither have work for me.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

_I posted the following in another thread, but it's applicable here too..._

The 11.0 software introduced a serious bug that affects those with basic / analog cable. This bug causes the analog tuners to "go out" periodically, resulting in a black (or gray) screen on analog channels. The user must switch to a digital channel (or reboot the TiVo) to regain the picture on analog channels.

Note this issue does *not* affect the digital tuners, so it does *not* affect digital channels from an off-air antenna or cable. When you install a CableCard on most cable systems, you get digital versions the analog channels, thus eliminating potential issues with lost analog tuners.

According to customer service, TiVo is working on an update to eliminate this issue for customers with basic / analog cable, but it's unclear when that will become available.



BWA said:


> So wait, will getting a CableCard help resolve the Analog cable channel problem?
> 
> I just got my TivoHD yesterday, got the service update, and have had grey screen four times already.
> 
> I didn't bother getting a CableCard since I only have "basic" (analog) cable.


On most (not all) cable systems, you get digital versions of the analog channels whenever you install a CableCard. Cable companies refer to this as Analog Digital Simulcast (ADS). Most TivoHD users with CableCards do not have any analog channels, hence do not have a problem with the loss of analog tuners. There's an easy way for a CableCard user to check whether their system has ADS -- tune to a low-numbered channel and check the System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen. It will tell you whether the channel is analog or digital.

People who experience this problem (loss of analog tuners) on a regular basis tend to be basic cable subscribers, without CableCards, that do the majority of their recording from analog channels, with relatively infrequent recording from QAM and ATSC (OTA) channels.

People with basic cable (without a CableCard) who do a lot of recording from digital (ATSC or QAM) channels tend not to see this issue much. That's because tuning to a digital channel restores the analog tuners. If your analog tuners went out mid-day, but your box was scheduled to record a digital channel at 8pm, then that would restore the analog tuners for a [analog] channel at 9pm.

*For existing TivoHD users with basic cable, there is a trick to greatly minimize the loss of analog tuners*. First, disable Suggestions under Settings -> Recording -> TiVo Suggestions. Then create two repeating (daily), one-minute manual recordings on different ATSC or QAM channels (i.e. one on each tuner) at some point before scheduled recordings on analog channels. This is done to put the TiVo's tuners on digital channels, because (a) the analog tuners will never "go out" when the TiVo is tuned to digital channels, and (b) if the analog tuners are out, tuning to a digital channel will restore them. The analog tuners appear to "go out" after they are tuned to an analog channel for 8-12 hours, but if your TiVo is tuned to digital channels most of the time, this rarely happens.

As indicated above, TiVo is still working to eliminate this problem. Once TiVo addresses this issue in a software update -- hopefully in the near future -- such "tricks" will be unnecessary.



djlstewart said:


> Good suggestion, but if you have analog cable (no digital cable, no cable cards, no cable box), how do you tune to a digital channel?


Virtually every cable provider offers HD locals "in the clear" (unencrypted).

Perform a Channel Scan under Settings -> Channels -> Channel Scan. After you do that, take a look at the channel list under Settings -> Channels -> Channel List. With some providers, the unencrypted local HD channels may appear on numbers like 2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc after a channel scan. With other providers, the local HD channels will be on numbers like 98-2, 104-3, 110-4, etc. It may take some trial and error to find what numbers are used for the HD locals on your cable system. These channels won't have guide data, but you can still add them to your lineup and create manual recordings on them.

Once you've added (checked) two or more of these channels to your lineup, you can create a manual recording on them under Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set Up Manual Recording. As a shortcut, simply press '7' from the TiVo menu.


----------



## msdonnelly (Apr 3, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> _*For existing TivoHD users with basic cable, there is a trick to greatly minimize the loss of analog tuners*. First, disable Suggestions under Settings -> Recording -> TiVo Suggestions. Then create two repeating (daily), one-minute manual recordings on different ATSC or QAM channels (i.e. one on each tuner) at some point before scheduled recordings on analog channels. This is done to put the TiVo's tuners on digital channels, because (a) the analog tuners will never "go out" when the TiVo is tuned to digital channels, and (b) if the analog tuners are out, tuning to a digital channel will restore them. The analog tuners appear to "go out" after they are tuned to an analog channel for 8-12 hours, but if your TiVo is tuned to digital channels most of the time, this rarely happens.
> 
> As indicated above, TiVo is still working to eliminate this problem. Once TiVo addresses this issue in a software update -- hopefully in the near future -- such "tricks" will be unnecessary._


_

I'll give this idea a try and come back with my results._


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

bkdtv I think your right.. I didn't want to post anything till I was sure. Over the last two week my cable provider has rolled out 6 new HD channels covering almost 90&#37; of what I record. Since I now do the bulk of my recording on the HD Channels I haven't noticed the lost of analog tuner (it's been up for about a week which is a record for me) as I'm guess from what you were saying my Tivo stays tuned to HD channels most of the time. I am going to give your directions a try, and see what results I turn up for the remaining recordings on analog channels.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

I guess my luck just ran out.  I lost my analog channels for the first time with 11b today. 

Not sure what the 11 -> 11b fixes were supposed to address, but it happened to me with comcast basic cable with no cable cards.


----------



## CorporateMonkey (Jun 3, 2005)

Thank heavens I am not going crazy. 

I have 2 s3 with cablecards in two separate nearby locations. Both receive OTA + cable (every offering).
My cable company Broadstripe (Seattle) has analogs on 2-99, and I lost them last week, yet kept digital (albeit not 100% quality)

Thinking it was a cablecard issue the cable company remotely reprogrammed the cablecards, of course completely hosing them in the process.
So today they came to replace all 4 cards. Everything worked great for a few hours. Now my cable analogs are gone again in both tivo's.

If I remove the cable cards, my analogs show up just fine.

I never had a problem when the v11 came out, why all of a sudden is this an issue now? The cable tech today said Motorola rolled out a recent cablecard update, and now they are getting a lot of calls about cablecards, could this be a culprit? Or is this just a Tivo issue?


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

sbourgeo said:


> I guess my luck just ran out.  I lost my analog channels for the first time with 11b today.
> 
> Not sure what the 11 -> 11b fixes were supposed to address, but it happened to me with comcast basic cable with no cable cards.


Analogs were out again this AM.  Cleared the problem by going to the signal strength screen...


----------



## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

sbourgeo said:


> Analogs were out again this AM.  Cleared the problem by going to the signal strength screen...


My analogs were out this morning (extended basic cable only, SDTV). I could tune to the QAM channels, but that did not bring them back. Are there cases when this does not work for some reason?


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

darksurtur said:


> My analogs were out this morning (extended basic cable only, SDTV). I could tune to the QAM channels, but that did not bring them back. Are there cases when this does not work for some reason?


For some reason that works for people, however it has never worked for me. Once I lose analog channels the only way I can get them back it by restarting the Tivo.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

I've had the same issue as well. 

If I change channels, then switch tuners, and change that channel, this restores all analog channels. Even if the channel change is analog to analog, it seems to work.

This makes me suspect some sort of live channel buffer problem.

I've taught my family the sequence of channel up, live tv, then channel up.

So far this is 100% successful.


----------



## msdonnelly (Apr 3, 2004)

A bit over two weeks ago I said I'd try setting up a five minute manual recording for each tuner and see if that stopped the channel lost. IT HAS! I haven't had a missed recording since. I set up five minutes from 6:55 PM to 7:00 PM for two different HD channels and I haven't missed a recording since.


----------



## Jadedone (Sep 9, 2006)

My Series 3 (11.0b) recently began losing 2-99 analog channels on only one of the cable cards.

The cable company sent a new signal from the office. No luck.
They had me remove and re-seat the troublesome cable card. It worked..........for about 36 hours.

I then lost all my HD channels. After two Tivo reboots I was back to normal. But the following day my analog channels were gone again only on one cable card.

Has anyone else experienced this on only one cable card or should I try to get a replacement cable card from the provider?

Or wait for a Tivo update?


----------



## T_RJ (Oct 15, 2001)

My HD is loosing all analog channels, any more news on this issue from TiVo?
TiVoPony any help here?


----------



## wagswvu (Feb 17, 2009)

Well I just updated to 11C yesterday. Did any of you guys get the 11C yet? and has it help at all?


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

11c for me is worse. The only fix now seems to be a reboot. My old fix of channel change-LiveTV-channel change only worked the first time, then the next freeze required a reboot.


----------



## msdonnelly (Apr 3, 2004)

Despite the daily manual recordings to force it to tune both tuners, I've lost another night's worth of recordings since my HD uploaded the 11c software. This is getting real annoying.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

Re-opened a case with Tivo, but the rep was not very knowledgeable. Only an apology, but no knowledge if 11c was intended to fix the analog channel grey screen.

So on to my experiment. Comcast has an amp on my house-been there for years. I've disconnected it with no appreciable loss in signal quality, although Tivo now measures it as 87% (it was 100%).

Will post if I get anymore freezes/gray screens on analog channels.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

So far, no more grey screen or freezes. Will post another update if I get grey screen, or if not, will post in about a week.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

11.0c gave me a gray screen on analogs with no cable cards.


----------



## David Vargo (Apr 10, 2002)

Has anyone gotten an update on this problem recently? Periodically, my Tivo goes blank on all of my cable channels (antenna channels are fine). It takes a reboot to get the channels back. I have lost quite a few recordings this way.

Dave


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Nope, still happening here.


----------



## CaptDS9E (Dec 3, 2002)

Yep still happening after all this time.


----------



## clzander (Feb 12, 2005)

Still happening to me too. If you haven't yet, open a formal trouble ticket with Tivo. I've been repeatedly told "we're looking into it, but given the variety of cable providers we haven't yet found the common cause or solution". The more visibility we can get this within Tivo the better. If you're on a monthly service contract, request a refund. If it starts costing them money (refunds for failure to provide service), they might be more motivated to figure out what changed that is now causing the problem. Of course, if you've got a lifetime subscription, you'll likely be told "tough luck."


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

Frequency is about once per two weeks now. Checking signal strength seems to clear the problem without a reboot most of the time.


----------



## DarinP (Apr 23, 2003)

I just got a TiVo HD box a couple of days ago. It updated to the latest 11c rev yesterday. I've seen the grey screen issue already.

I also had a problem this morning where the record LED was on, but the TiVo just showed a black screen and wasn't responding to the remote.

Maybe I should have looked through the forums first before going for the offer they gave me (I've had a series 2 for 6 yrs), but I never thought to look for problems before buying. I would have held off until they resolved this.


----------



## AKThunder (Oct 15, 2008)

I keep getting this every couple days. Im about ready to smash my tivo with a hammer. Whats the point anymore. I mean with hulu and other services. They are free too. To think I bought a TivoHD with Lifetime. What a waste. I know I will probably get bashed for this post but Im fed up. I have called tivo many times, and they are no help.


----------



## DarinP (Apr 23, 2003)

Called TiVo tech support tonight and posted some info on the TiVo support forum:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?nesting=0&currentPage=3&rootPostID=10412815&lastPage=3&postID=

In summary, they are sending me a replacement unit as they claim that the software problem only causes issues on "some units". We'll see if this does anything. I am within the 30 day return window, and they are extending it to 60 days, along with covering shipping costs.


----------



## LynnL999 (Oct 7, 2002)

I have a new TiVoHD (no cable cards yet) and I think I'm experiencing the same issue.  I went to live tv, and I could see the channel banners, but no signal. Rebooting fixed it.

(Thanks for the advice about the channel scan -- I found the HD versions of my local channels, and I'll keep the tuners on those channels as much as possible until I get the cable cards.)


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

No analog channel freezes in the last few weeks. The last action I took was to unplug the Tivo for about 90 seconds, then plug it back in and let it reboot.

I don't think that action by itself solved the problem, but I wonder if that, in conjunction with the 11c software patch did the trick?

I'll post again if analog channels freeze, otherwise I'll just monitor the thread.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

rf52 said:


> I don't think that action by itself solved the problem, but I wonder if that, in conjunction with the 11c software patch did the trick?


It happened to me on Friday with 11c. FWIW, I have Comcast analog cable with no cablecards.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

sbourgeo said:


> It happened to me on Friday with 11c. FWIW, I have Comcast analog cable with no cablecards.


Probably should post all the info about my Tivo/cable system.

I have a refurbed Tivo. I've had it about a year, but my problems do not start until software release 11.

I also have Comcast cable (former Adelphia). I have 2 S-cards installed.

I've verified the channels that freeze/grey screen are analog (using DVR Diagnostics).

Comcast had a signal amp in my house. I disconnected it, which changed the frequency of freezes from about every 2 days to about 1 per 2 weeks.

Not sure of the exact date I restarted the Tivo by unplugging it, but it seems to be at least 2 weeks ago.

I have a case open with Tivo, and will leave it open for about another month if no more freezes.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

Spoke too soon. Analog channels froze today.


----------



## T_RJ (Oct 15, 2001)

Mine is still freezing up as well. Maybe now that the "digital transition" has finally happened TiVo will address this issue withan update! Come on TiVo fix this f**king problem!


----------



## showard594 (Feb 12, 2004)

once this issue occurs and a black screen shows on the channel a reboot is the only thing that recovers. good thing is we can still watch recorded content. we reverted to restarting every morning as it is already happening 4-5 times per week. 

this is a Tivo issue i am sure as comcast peeps are seeing the same problem


----------



## naranja (Jan 7, 2005)

Like others, about every two weeks I'm losing my analog cable channels but over the air HD is still fine. Reboot and I'm ok again for a while. I called TiVo to inquire and was told this was caused by the cable companies pushing more and more HD, internet, phone service, etc down the pipe, that it sometimes, causes a weak signal or frequency something that "confuses" the tuner on my HD Tivos. If the tuner stays confused for more than X number of seconds it turns itself off. Re-booting then solves the problem by restarting the tuner. 

The rep said the solution was to go to Best Buy or similar and buy a "inline signal amplifier" for $20-$40. He had the same problem and this solved it. He said there was no software solution for the problem. Anybody try this or recommend a specific signal amplifier?

I use Time Warner for cable, internet, and VOIP , no cable cards in my HD Tivos.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

I have an inline signal amp provided by Comcast (Adelphia). I disconnected it, which seemed to slow my analog channel freezes to about 1 every 2 weeks.

So I had the opposite experience from what the Tivo rep described.


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

I've had 2 analog TiVos for 3-4 years, worked beautifully except for hard drive failures. Just bought a new TiVo HD XL, and have had nothing but problems. Still have analog, Comcast. First the actual cable tuner was damaged--actually a hardware issue. Exchanged the box for another unit. On the new unit--bingo, this same gray screen problem is now happening (after getting the system current to 11c). 

Spent a half-hour on the phone to TiVo tech support (the problem was new to him, although when he asked the Tier 2 techs, they knew about it). Comcast is rolling out a truck to install a cablecard on Friday. I asked point-blank if I should exchange the box again, or let them install the cablecards. He said "there's a chance" that the cablecards will fix it. But he also said he couldn't guarantee that a new box would fix it, either. And if I do have the cards installed, still have the problem, and have to exchange the box again, I have to pay for Comcast to roll out another "technician" to re-install & re-activate the cablecard (I'm in D.C. -- they don't let ordinary customers activate the cards, it has to be a tech).

Meanwhile, my 30-day window is ticking away. Now I read this thread and find out it's been an ongoing issue since DECEMBER 2008! What the hell are they doing, twiddling their thumbs? How can there be a fundamental problem like this in their newest, latest-tech box for SIX MONTHS and still no solution? Is this just happening with some boxes, but not others? Why is anyone still buying these HDs if it's happening to all of them? And if it's just some of them, why haven't they figured out what the manufacturing error is yet? If it's just software, it should affect everyone, right?

This is so exasperating, from a company whose products I really love. I can't believe there isn't a reliable working, functioning TiVo HD I can buy and use. And all before the cablecard nightmare even begins.


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

After reading this thread and the one at the Tivo customer help forums, I decided to call back for another exchange. This time I was told that the problem was that my signal was "too strong". Even though I have analog cable, I was told to run the Signal Strength test (which the TiVo book says is only for digital signals). When she heard that the signal was 100, she told me that it needed to be lower, and I needed an "attenuator" on my cable to reduce it to the 80-99 range. She would not issue me an exchange until I did that. Has anyone else gotten this "analog signal too strong" line from TiVo? Is there anything to it?


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

BobbyWDC said:


> After reading this thread and the one at the Tivo customer help forums, I decided to call back for another exchange. This time I was told that the problem was that my signal was "too strong". Even though I have analog cable, I was told to run the Signal Strength test (which the TiVo book says is only for digital signals). When she heard that the signal was 100, she told me that it needed to be lower, and I needed an "attenuator" on my cable to reduce it to the 80-99 range. She would not issue me an exchange until I did that. Has anyone else gotten this "analog signal too strong" line from TiVo? Is there anything to it?


It could be the case that the signal being too strong could be the root cause of most people's problems. It certainly doesn't affect all HD TiVos, but seems to affect a given household very consistently.

Note there are multiple different original causes of this problem. Hardware errors (eg, disk) can also cause the same symptoms. Makes it tough to track down!

If your local franchise is using digital simulcast (many are), then installing cablecards should solve the problem for you. You won't be using the analog tuners any more.

I have one HD XL TiVo with cablecards and no problems, and have had two different HD TiVos without cablecards with the problem. The problem is independent of location in the house for me. I do have a cable company installed amplifier in the house - analog signal is very snowy on some channels without it.


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

Thanks, CrispyCritter, but how do I tell if Comcast in Washington, DC is using digital simulcast? There's no help on their web site, and I can only imagine the customer service hell if I tried to find out from them on the phone. Can't find anything useful online elsewhere, either.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

BobbyWDC said:


> Thanks, CrispyCritter, but how do I tell if Comcast in Washington, DC is using digital simulcast? There's no help on their web site, and I can only imagine the customer service hell if I tried to find out from them on the phone. Can't find anything useful online elsewhere, either.


As far as I can tell, Comcast Washington DC switched over in 2006. See
old thread


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

So should I let Comcast come & install the cards, maybe not have the problem again, but know I have a TiVo that won't work with analog, and let the 30-day exchange period run out? Or do I cancel Comcast, and keep demanding exchanges until I get one without the problem? Or return the whole f*king thing and go with Comcast's lame DVR instead?


----------



## DarinP (Apr 23, 2003)

Those are some of the same questions I have right now. They talked me into doing an exchange and I am waiting for them to send the replacement (my return period was also extended to 60 days). Based on what I've read so far, I'm fairly confident that if I went with cable card and just did the digital tuning I would not have any problems. I'm also fairly confident that TiVo will not fix the analog tuner problem. So the question is whether I 
1) Accept that analog doesn't work and just use the digital tuner
2) Keep sending back TiVos until I get one that does work for me (this has worked for at least one person)
3) Get a refund, stick w/ my Series 2 and wait to see if they fix it before making another purchase

I'd be curious if anyone went with option #1 and didn't have problems. CrispyCritter has an HD DVR with cable card that doesn't have the problem, but I'm wondering if it did have the problem before, or if you always used cable cards in it.


----------



## rf52 (Nov 23, 2007)

DarinP said:


> 1) Accept that analog doesn't work and just use the digital tuner
> 
> I'd be curious if anyone went with option #1 and didn't have problems. CrispyCritter has an HD DVR with cable card that doesn't have the problem, but I'm wondering if it did have the problem before, or if you always used cable cards in it.


I don't think we get a choice with cable cards. For example, ABC for me is channel 3 on the cable card. The cable card maps it to channel 3, which is analog. Comcast sends the digital (not HD) ABC channel on channel 92-201, but there does not seem to be a way for me to make the cable card map 3->92-201. Anyone know any tricks?


----------



## scotttc2000 (Apr 14, 2009)

i had the same issue my analog tuner. I probably still have the issue, but i have a cable card, so i am not sure if was ever resolved.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

BobbyWDC said:


> So should I let Comcast come & install the cards, maybe not have the problem again, but know I have a TiVo that won't work with analog, and let the 30-day exchange period run out? Or do I cancel Comcast, and keep demanding exchanges until I get one without the problem? Or return the whole f*king thing and go with Comcast's lame DVR instead?


AFAIK, Comcast uses digital simulcast on every system in the DC Metro area (DC, N. VA, and Maryland). I can confirm that you will *not* have the problem on Comcast in DC once a CableCard is installed. Comcast in DC uses Motorola 3xxx series STBs and DVRs which do not have analog tuners; hence, they must use digital simulcast.

Sending the TiVo back will not make a difference because it is not a hardware problem. It is a software issue. Refer to the "Known Issues" link in my signature.

As yyou've found, the TivoHD is not a reliable DVR for analog cable with the current software. It is highly reliable for OTA. It is highly reliable for digital cable in most areas (SDV channels and SDV tuning adapters still exhibit problems in some areas).


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

Thank you, bkdtv. You give me hope. I can't confirm this myself, because the tech they sent had never done one of these before (thought cablecards had been around "a few months now"!) and he left with some channels working, others not. I investigated with the TiVo Cablecard hotline and found out that the card was activated, but not paired. So I get all my below-100 channels, but above that, only the music channels and a few of the local stations' HD feeds. I CAN confirm that with this unpaired, possibly defective cablecard, the freezing problem continues. I'm crossing my fingers that after the next tech comes out (they insisted--re-pinging the card, or whatever it's called, had no effect) that I'll have a fully functioning cablecard. Then I'll see if the freezes and video/audio loss requiring a restart continue. I certainly hope not! If so, I might try one exchange, but then I give up.

Meanwhile, my two Series 2 TiVos continue working perfectly, as reliable as ever, for the analog channels. I hope someday I feel as confident in the TiVo HD; it's hard to imagine that right now.


----------



## DarinP (Apr 23, 2003)

rf52 said:


> I don't think we get a choice with cable cards. For example, ABC for me is channel 3 on the cable card. The cable card maps it to channel 3, which is analog. Comcast sends the digital (not HD) ABC channel on channel 92-201, but there does not seem to be a way for me to make the cable card map 3->92-201. Anyone know any tricks?


I thought you could go into your Channel List settings, uncheck channel 3 and make sure the equivalent digital channel is checked. That would tell TiVo to always record the digital version. You would most likely have to redo any existing seasons passes because they are tied to the channel.

I don't have cable card, but I believe that's the tip I saw from someone else. They were giving a tip on how to tell it to always record the HD channel for a network, but it should work the same way here.


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

Got my cablecard correctly configured this morning. I'm now getting all the digital channels I'm supposed to. However, the Comcast guy confirms that the below-100 channels are still analog, and so does my TiVo, giving me all the usual quality options (Basic, High, etc.). It doesn't give me that option when I try to record a digital (over 100) channel.

So now it's a waiting game. I've got short programs set up to record every few hours, from the below-100 analog channels. I'm really hoping that I won't have any more freezes and gray screens on those channels, like you suggested, BKDTV. But I still read about people in other threads with this issue, and the fact that the lower channels are still analog makes me very wary.

I do get "HD" versions of SOME of those lower channels higher up in digital, but it's just certain ones. I assume the "won't happen again" solution doesn't involve never ever recording from anything below 100 (analog) or putting my tuner there again, right? Because that would leave me without many of my channels, and it's not an acceptable answer.

I won't feel the least bit good about this until at least a few days go by (which would be longer than the TiVo has ever gone before without this issue).


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, that didn't take long. After about 6 hours, I had a whole system freeze. Couldn't hit the TiVo button and restart--I had to unplug & replug to reboot. I called TiVo tech support right away. They say since I'm not getting the gray screen, but am instead getting the frozen screen and completely non-responsive unit, that it's a hardware problem, and they'll have me exchange it again. They also said there's a 90-day exchange period, separate from the 30-day moneyback deal. I don't have a lot of hope that a new box will work any differently, but I'm packing it up and shipping it back for a new one. There seem to be SOME people on this thread and others that eventually got one that didn't have the problem. I'm so sick of this--nothing but trouble since the day I bought it. How could they keep brand-new customers? They're trading on years of my goodwill from two Series 2 TiVos now--and that's almost used up.


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

I've had my 2nd replacement TiVo HD hooked up and working with a cablecard for 3-1/2 days now. I've kept one tuner on an analog (below 100) channel the whole time. So far, no freezing or gray screens. The last box couldn't make it through 12 hours without the problem. I have some slim hope now that maybe this box is problem-free. But it'll take weeks before I trust it. 

Of course now I'm worried about getting the dreaded 11.0d, according to reports in other threads. But so far it's staying with 11.0c, and seems to be working without problems. So for anyone out there debating whether it's possible to get a box without this problem: So far, so good, but that's still a big MAYBE. It's way too soon to tell. I have a flicker of hope.


----------



## Michael Gwynn (Aug 7, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> As yyou've found, the TivoHD is not a reliable DVR for analog cable with the current software. It is highly reliable for OTA.


sigh...

i only can WISH that my strong cleveland OTA signal strength would make my THD reliable.

my analog TWC is weak and fuzzy sometimes because of a wet cable, but my THD records analog cable faithfully.

it's only the OTA HD eps that begin to stutter, then freeze by about the 20-25 minute mark... then the inevitable reboots begin. it started about maybe late april or early may?

i finally had to remove all OTA HD channels from the channel list, because of WAF.

sigh...

(the s3 in the living room never wavers... recording both OTA HD and analog cable without a hiccup)


----------



## Michael Gwynn (Aug 7, 2000)

eaglestvo said:


> I use Tivo without Cablecards. We have a very primitive cable system (Charter - Outer Banks, NC) which has very few digital channels anyhow, so basically the majority of the channels go out.
> 
> We have many people who stay at our vacation home, and I can't possibly ask each of them to reboot the Tivo box every day just to get basic channels!


well, i realize that there are 'several' rental vacation homes along the OBX, but i've got a week scheduled in a nice one near pine knoll shores on aug 1, so if it turns out that it's your unit and i have to reboot every day, i'll completely understand!


----------



## DarinP (Apr 23, 2003)

My replacement HD unit (see my previous posts in this thread) had been running fine for a little more than 4 wks with no problems. Sat morning I turned it on and discovered a frozen image on one tuner and a gray screen on the other. The one w/ the gray screen was in the middle of a recording. To recover, I only had to change the channel on one tuner and they both recovered (and the recording continued). This was at about 7:30 am. There was a successful recording at 12:30 am, so something went wrong between those times.

I went into the system information screen and saw that my box now has 11d software. I had checked a few days earlier after I saw mention of a new release coming and I was still at 11c. I don't know if there's any way to tell when you got an update. The box could have done an upgrade reboot between those two times, but I don't know.

Right now I'm hoping I'm not going to see issues with rev 11d when I didn't have any with 11c.

Just to recap, I have the HD unit and I am only recording analog standard def programming from cable. No tuner cards, no antenna.


----------



## BobbyWDC (Mar 28, 2005)

I've been updated to 11.0d. No problems so far, but I don't know how recently the upgrade occurred--I hadn't looked at my software version setting in over a week. Everything has worked great, with no freezes or gray screens, for 2 weeks now, since I hooked up my second replacement TiVo HD. I was just starting to develop a little trust in the thing. Now I'm hoping that 11.0d doesn't have the same effect on mine that it has on others.


----------



## Mahkook (Oct 15, 2004)

I have been watching this thread with hopeful anticipation that some good news might come along... It has been since around the first rumblings of this error that I have been dealing with it happening on my HD. As of this evening, I am still having the same problem of losing my analog channels about every three days (sometimes 2 days) and as all I have are the basic analog channels, this really sucks. None of the of the tricks have worked in bringing back the channels other than doing a full system restart. I loose programs on a regular basis. 
Tivo, are you giving this problem your full attention? I have been a faithful customer since the very first year of your introduction and have owned 6 units all with lifetime subscriptions. This is frustrating beyond words....

Would anyone be up to considering trading an HD unit with lifetime subscription for a DT unit with lifetime service???? That seems to be the last resort that I have since there hasn't been any real progress in this problem and the new seasons will be here before long. If we miss any more of my wife's favorite shows this next year, there will be a full out revolt on my hands.


----------



## rob_b (Aug 18, 2009)

I just stumbled upon this thread. I have been having this exact same issues as recorded here. Does anyone know what percentage of users are affected?

Since I don't watch/record any analog channels, can I somehow disable them to eliminate this problem? 

I use comcast in howard county MD with one multistream card. Ironically, I have another Tivo box that doesn't seem to be having this issue. I'll have to check the operating system version when I get home tonight.


----------



## coredump4 (Aug 8, 2009)

BobbyWDC said:


> I've been updated to 11.0d. No problems so far, but I don't know how recently the upgrade occurred--I hadn't looked at my software version setting in over a week. Everything has worked great, with no freezes or gray screens, for 2 weeks now, since I hooked up my second replacement TiVo HD. I was just starting to develop a little trust in the thing. Now I'm hoping that 11.0d doesn't have the same effect on mine that it has on others.


I also got 11.0d sometime in July, though I don't know when.
My DVR still has the tuner hang issue, though I feel that it's been less-frequent recently, probably due to 11.0d. No way to really say for certain, but that's my impression.
When the analog tuner hang does occur, I find that the "unlock" sequence someone else posted indeed works for me: Live TV, tune up; Live TV again, tune up again. You may need to do this twice, but it seems to unlock my tuners without a reboot, which saves a lot of time. I wish they'd come up with a permanent fix for this; I'm getting tired of finding my Tivo hung!


----------



## DarinP (Apr 23, 2003)

Still having issues periodically w/ my replacement HD unit. As I posted before, the replacement box worked w/ no problems for about a month with 11c, and then after the update to 11d it started having issues frozen analog tuners. Changing the channel makes it recover.

I was seeing it once a day until I set up a 5 minute manual recording each week day. Then it was reduced to about once a week, but it would still happen once in a while. It might have mostly on the weekend, when I didn't have the manual recording scheduled, but I'm not sure.

It almost seems like it becomes an issue when a tuner is on a particular channel for too long. If you don't have schedule conflicts, the 2nd tuner probably doesn't need to change channels very often. I have a program that I record every weekday, and that tuner would stay on the same channel for days and days at a time.

I'm wondering if this is related to people who said they start seeing the problem when their hard drive starts getting full. If your drive fills up, you won't be getting any TiVo suggestions, so less channel changes and less chance of using both tuners.

A week or so ago, I changed from one daily 5 minute recording to two daily 5 min recordings at the exact same time and on channels I normally *wouldn't* record programming on or even have TiVo suggestions recorded (picked channels like HSN and Univision). I'm hoping that this forces both tuners to change at least once a day. I haven't seen any freezing problems yet, so we'll see how it goes.

I am in the Mpls area and have Comcast as a cable provider. Only analog (not cablecard).


----------



## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

Well. I guess it's time I joined the club. I have 2 TIVO HD units. The new one is about 3 months old. I had been hearing about this trouble (loss of analog chanels), but this is the first time I've seen it. And, as you all know, it's a PIA. This new unit, I bought last spring with Obama's stemulus project money. I have a home net and mostly got this unit to watch shows recorded on my other 2 units, in the bedroom. I'd say this unit grey screens about 3 times a week. It is only set up to record 1 program at night (10:30 pm). So, to make sure the tuners are awake, I set up a 10 min manual record on 2 different HD local chs on the cable at the same time. This is supposed to wake up the tuners on analog. It's only been 4 days, and so far, so good. I guess I should make a report on this to TIVO. So far, my other TIVO HD unit has only had the problem once. I turned it on the other day, and it was coming up from a reboot. The analog tuners were out, when I went to watch live TV. I tuned 2 digiital chs (1 on on each tuner) and it brought them back up. As far as I know, they haven't gone down again. I also have a S3 unit. It hasn't ever had this trouble, Thank God.

I hope TIVO comes up with a fix on this, soon. It's gone on far to long.

Don H


----------



## lb3 (Feb 9, 2009)

wtkflhn said:


> Well. I guess it's time I joined the club. I have 2 TIVO HD units. The new one is about 3 months old. I had been hearing about this trouble (loss of analog chanels), but this is the first time I've seen it. And, as you all know, it's a PIA. This new unit, I bought last spring with Obama's stemulus project money. I have a home net and mostly got this unit to watch shows recorded on my other 2 units, in the bedroom. I'd say this unit grey screens about 3 times a week. It is only set up to record 1 program at night (10:30 pm). So, to make sure the tuners are awake, I set up a 10 min manual record on 2 different HD local chs on the cable at the same time. This is supposed to wake up the tuners on analog. It's only been 4 days, and so far, so good. I guess I should make a report on this to TIVO. So far, my other TIVO HD unit has only had the problem once. I turned it on the other day, and it was coming up from a reboot. The analog tuners were out, when I went to watch live TV. I tuned 2 digiital chs (1 on on each tuner) and it brought them back up. As far as I know, they haven't gone down again. I also have a S3 unit. It hasn't ever had this trouble, Thank God.
> 
> I hope TIVO comes up with a fix on this, soon. It's gone on far to long.
> 
> Don H


I've had this problem for ~6 months. Frequency just seems to come and go. Sometimes it doesn't happen for weeks at a time. Recently it's been happening a lot.

I don't understand how such a persistent problem gets so little attention from Tivo. I suppose not enough customers use analog cable with a TivoHD? What they overlook is the impression it gives their customers. I (and my wife) have lost a lot of in confidence in Tivo's ability (or possibly desire) to fix any other future problem that may come up. We love the Tivo, but my very non-tech wife gets extremely frustrated with it when it has these problems. I've shown her different ways to clear the problem, but they don't always work.

So, I've been using analog with Comcast for a while but Comcast is switching my area from analog to all digital very soon. In theory, getting cable cards will fix this problem. However, the bad experience and lack of response from Tivo on this issue might have me switching to a Comcast (or Verizon, may switch to Fios) DVR. We'll see....


----------



## janchris (Mar 8, 2009)

We have now tried all iterations of Mcard/Scard/no card and still have the channels lock up at least once each week. In my opinion, our Tivo HD is useless. Add in the immense frustration of fruitless troubleshooting and I can say that this is the WORST product of any type that I have ever purchased.


----------



## kingflynn (Feb 26, 2007)

Been having the same problem described here for months. I have basic Comcast (2-99) plugged directly into the TV with no cable cards. Before the channels started going black, one tuner would disappear until a reboot. Now the second tuner won't come back with a reboot. It does not even appear in Diagnostics. Now every day the channels go black except for the network HD channels (4-1, 5-1, 7-1). Those work while all other channels are just black until reboot.

The prepaid year for this box is up soon. I can't see going without Tivo after so many years. Tried a Comcast DVR and hated it. Is a PC a viable option??


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

kingflynn said:


> Been having the same problem described here for months. I have basic Comcast (2-99) plugged directly into the TV with no cable cards. Before the channels started going black, one tuner would disappear until a reboot. Now the second tuner won't come back with a reboot. It does not even appear in Diagnostics. Now every day the channels go black except for the network HD channels (4-1, 5-1, 7-1). Those work while all other channels are just black until reboot.
> 
> The prepaid year for this box is up soon. I can't see going without Tivo after so many years. Tried a Comcast DVR and hated it. Is a PC a viable option??


Is there a reason you don't have a CableCard? In 95% of cases, installing a CableCard will eliminate the problem described in this thread. From the TivoHD FAQ:



> *Loss of analog tuners (otherwise known as the "Gray Screen" issue)*
> 
> The 11.0 software introduced a *serious bug* that affects those with basic / analog cable. This bug causes the analog tuners to "go out" periodically, resulting in a gray (or black) screen on analog channels. To regain the picture on analog channels, the user must switch both tuners to digital channels (or switch between a few channels on the Settings -> Channels -> Channel strength screen)...or alternatively, reboot the TiVo.
> 
> ...


*Comcast intends to eliminate its non-local analog channels in the next 12-24 months*, so you'll need a CableCard before long anyway. You might as well get one now and eliminate this problem on your TiVo.

There are a small minority of Comcast systems -- about 5% -- that do not yet have digital simulcast (digital versions of all analog channels with a CableCard). However, most of those systems should offer digital simulcast by next spring, if not sooner.


----------



## kingflynn (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you for the info. I had a terrible experience trying to get the cable cards to work. I just said forget it, I could use it without 'em. Guess not. Is that related to having one tuner, or is that just a bad tuner?


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

kingflynn said:


> Thank you for the info. I had a terrible experience trying to get the cable cards to work. I just said forget it, I could use it without 'em. Guess not. Is that related to having one tuner, or is that just a bad tuner?


I'm not sure what you mean.

The TivoHD requires just one CableCard (of the M-CARD) variety to support both tuners with digital cable.


----------



## kingflynn (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't use a cable card and one tuner doesn't work or show up in diagnostics. It started to go out once a week and come back with a reboot, now it is just gone. Could that be related to the bug that causes the analog channels to black out?


----------



## userecs (Sep 20, 2009)

Hi, I got here by googling something like "tivo gray screen recording two shows" and I know this is not the same problem most of you have in this thread however I wanted to leave something for people who get here the same way I did. By the way, the Tivo was sometimes messing up when we were trying to record one show too. It generally worked otherwise.

Anyway, what worked for me was fixing a mistake the Comcast installers made: They put an M-card in my Slot 2 and an S-card in my Slot 1. Obviously I only needed the M-card and everything works now with it by itself in Slot 1. Peace!


----------



## johndierks (Sep 5, 2002)

I'm having this problem on my new-to-me Tivo HD. I'm in Seattle and I've been intending to use CableCards but don't have them yet (Comcast screwed up my initial install). Can anyone confirm one way or the other if this issue will go away once I get a cablecard installed? Is Comcast currently simulcasting digital versions of analog channels in Seattle?

Thanks.

John


----------



## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

I don't know about Comcast Seattle digital service, but in my area, Comcast only recently began simulcasting ALL analog channels on digital service. Prior to that, I had a mix of digital and analog service.

If Seattle gives you a mix, you may still have the problem on the analog channels. However, if they have begun total digital simulcast of analog channels, then you should be ok.

Eventually, Comcast will broadcast everything on digital and shut down analog service completely. Sorry, I don't know the timetable in your area. Maybe someone else will be able to chime in.

You may also want to read the more detailed description in the sticky FAQ. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7097497#post7097497


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

johndierks said:


> I'm having this problem on my new-to-me Tivo HD. I'm in Seattle and I've been intending to use CableCards but don't have them yet (Comcast screwed up my initial install). Can anyone confirm one way or the other if this issue will go away once I get a cablecard installed? Is Comcast currently simulcasting digital versions of analog channels in Seattle?


Yes, Comcast offers digital simulcast in Seattle. And yes, installing a CableCard will get you digital versions of all analog channels in Seattle, so that you will not see this issue.


----------



## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

This problem is still live and kicking. My 2 year old Tivo HD started doing this a couple of months ago. I have tried the tune to a digital station and it does work, but dang it Tivo, I shouldn't have to do this. I suppose this problem is not widespread enough to warrant a software update, but that doesn't really make me feel better.

I have 4 Tivos and this one has been the most trouble. It still can't handle resolution changes and keep the HDCP handshake. So I have to set it to 1080 fixed output. Also a bit of a bummer.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Welshdog said:


> I suppose this problem is not widespread enough to warrant a software update, but that doesn't really make me feel better.


I sure hope this gets addressed in the next software update. I've been suffering with this issue for almost one year now. :down:


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Two more recordings missed today thanks to the gray screen issue. 

This is past getting old - it's ridiculous! TiVo quality? Tivo reliability? What oxymorons those phrases are.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Every time I see the Jobs at TiVo post I want to add a new entry:



> Wanted: Engineer that can fix the annoying grey analog screen issue on the TiVo HD platform. Qualifications include a lovely singing voice as well as the ability to fog a mirror held under your nose.


----------



## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

Any thoughts on what specifically causes this issue? I find it strange that our Tivo worked fine for two years and then 2 months ago it started. That sounds like hardware to me.

It would be nice to hear from tivo one way or the other.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Welshdog said:


> Any thoughts on what specifically causes this issue? I find it strange that our Tivo worked fine for two years and then 2 months ago it started. That sounds like hardware to me.
> 
> It would be nice to hear from tivo one way or the other.


This issue has been around for about a year now (since software verson 11 was rolled out), so chances are we're not going to hear bupkus from TiVo about it.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

sbourgeo said:


> This issue has been around for about a year now (since software verson 11 was rolled out), so chances are we're not going to hear bupkus from TiVo about it.


People have been saying this, and I don't know why. This is a bug that is going to require the extensive beta testing of a full software update release. We haven't gotten an update since version 11 that introduced the bug. If we don't get a fix in the next update, *then* it's time to conclude that TiVo doesn't care about it, and complain bitterly.

Until then we can complain about the bug itself, but TiVo really hasn't had the chance to give us a fix, so complaining about their lack of attention is unsupported by the evidence.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> .....
> 
> Until then we can complain about the bug itself, but TiVo really hasn't had the chance to give us a fix, so complaining about their lack of attention is unsupported by the evidence.


Horsehockey.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

CrispyCritter said:


> Until then we can complain about the bug itself, but TiVo really hasn't had the chance to give us a fix, so complaining about their lack of attention is unsupported by the evidence.


A year isn't enough time to release a fix?


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Horsehockey.


Such an eloquent argument!

Don't you agree that an extensive beta test is needed to test any fix for this problem? Remember that this is a problem that the 11.0 update beta test obviously did not pick up. It's a bug that affects only some HDTiVos running on analog channels. It's a major problem for some folks running analog, a minor problem for other folks with analog, and no problem at all for others running analog. How do you make sure that your fix actually works for all those folks and doesn't adversely affect others who aren't bothered by it now?

The fix should be comparatively easy - testing the fix is difficult and expensive.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

sbourgeo said:


> A year isn't enough time to release a fix?


Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

RoyK said:


> Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.


Well, I know that I can write lots of code in one year... 

My guess is that this is either not a priority for TiVo or the fix is not a trivial one. That still doesn't make this issue easy to live with though.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.


You ignored the direct question yet again, Roy.

Do you agree that this fix must be extensively beta-tested?


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> You ignored the direct question yet again, Roy.
> 
> Do you agree that this fix must be extensively beta-tested?


I think that *ONE YEAR* is *MUCH *too long to find and fix and, yes, extensively test a bug like this.

Of course who am I to judge -- I only have 35 years experience in writing and fielding software professionally.


----------



## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

Regardless of the amount of beta testing required, it appears that Tivo has set a low priority on this issue. If they had assigned it a high priority they likely would have commented here (Hi TivoJerry) to let us know they were looking into it. 

People have said the Tivo tech support has said they are aware of the issue, but that is not the same as an acknowledgement by Tivo in the forums.

Throw us a bone Tivo, please. I'm tired of the wife complaining about shows not recording.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> I think that *ONE YEAR* is *MUCH *too long to find and fix and, yes, extensively test a bug like this.
> 
> Of course who am I to judge -- I only have 35 years experience in writing and fielding software professionally.


I think the eloquence and pure logic of your arguments speak for themselves.

(I note that once again you did not answer the direct question.)


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> I think the eloquence and pure logic of your arguments speak for themselves.
> 
> (I note that once again you did not answer the direct question.)


Because I don't answer sucker questions.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

CrispyCritter said:


> Do you agree that this fix must be extensively beta-tested?


Of course it should. But as RoyK alluded to, the first post about this issue in this thread is from 12/11/2008.

Are you saying that spending a month or two identifying the issue, coding a fix, and performing internal testing before 10+ months of beta testing isn't sufficient?


----------



## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

sbourgeo said:


> Of course it should. But as RoyK alluded to, the first post about this issue in this thread is from 12/11/2008.
> 
> Are you saying that spending a month or two identifying the issue, coding a fix, and performing internal testing before 10+ months of beta testing isn't sufficient?


I know I'm not supposed to say this, but right now I don't really care. I have participated in several Tivo Betas and they don't take 10 months. Even a really, really long one is only 7 months.

If Tivo was interested in this issue it would have been solved by now.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

sbourgeo said:


> Of course it should. But as RoyK alluded to, the first post about this issue in this thread is from 12/11/2008.
> 
> Are you saying that spending a month or two identifying the issue, coding a fix, and performing internal testing before 10+ months of beta testing isn't sufficient?


What I'm saying is that the type of beta-test needed for an issue like this (that affects only a small percentage of folks, and is probably signal related to some degree since we here have never been able to figure out why some folks have it and some don't) is one that involves many hundreds of beta testers over an extended period of time (lots of folks like me have problems only once every 2-3 weeks).

TiVo is a small company. It doesn't have the man-power and resources to have a separate huge beta for every bug. It doesn't have a continuous beta like big companies can afford.

Spending potentially over a hundred thousand dollars *extra* in order to speed up a fix of a bug that affects maybe 2-3% of their users by six months is a lot.

Some bugs can be fixed with a cheap beta - this isn't one of them, given how little we understand it.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Because I don't answer sucker questions.


And what exactly makes it a sucker question, Roy?


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

CrispyCritter said:


> What I'm saying is that the type of beta-test needed for an issue like this (that affects only a small percentage of folks, and is probably signal related to some degree since we here have never been able to figure out why some folks have it and some don't) is one that involves many hundreds of beta testers over an extended period of time (lots of folks like me have problems only once every 2-3 weeks).
> 
> TiVo is a small company. It doesn't have the man-power and resources to have a separate huge beta for every bug. It doesn't have a continuous beta like big companies can afford.
> 
> ...


I guess your speculation is as good as anyone else's...


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Lost another one to gray screen today.....
(S2 on the same splitter had no problem with the same program at the same time)


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Two more recordings lost to gray screens today.


----------



## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

I also lost another program to this issue today. It was not a common occurrence and with two TiVos I usually have a backup of the show so not a big deal. Even with that after a year I must admit my patience was wearing thin. I moved last week and have had it happen twice in the last 4 days. At that rate I am not sure how long I can take it.


----------



## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

I added two short repeating manual records of digital OTA channels recently. Have not seen the blank/gray screen since I did this. I realize this only sometimes works, but so far so good.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Gray screen again today - another recording ruined (only got half of it)


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

How does Tivo live with itself letting issues like these drag on for a year or longer?

It's really becoming a joke.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> How does Tivo live with itself letting issues like these drag on for a year or longer?
> 
> It's really becoming a joke.


I don't see anything to laugh about....


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

RoyK said:


> I don't see anything to laugh about....


Not when the joke is on us at least.


----------



## juliel (Jan 22, 2003)

OK, I'm not sure if this is the same or different problem so bear with me please.

I came home Sunday night and had grey screens. All my network channels were fine (regular and HD) but everything "cable" was bad. Diagnostics seemed to indicate cablecards working fine. Restarted a couple of times with no luck. Yesterday did the "take out cable card, reboot, do guided setup, put card back in, reboot, guided setup," and it worked. This morning, grey screens again.

I *think* the working channels are digital (says "QAM256") so it doesn't seem to be an analog/digital issue. Is this something different? Any suggestions? Or am I in the same world of hopelessness as everyone else with this grey screen issue?

Also - I just did this again and seem to be confirming that repeating guided setup makes things work again. I think CV came out with Tuning Adapters but as far as I can tell they're not required - or is the lack of one likely the root of my problem after all?

By the way I have Optimum Online (CableVision?) in New York if that matters. . .


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.


Perfect analogy. Both events begin with someone getting screwed.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> Perfect analogy. Both events begin with someone getting screwed.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

juliel said:


> OK, I'm not sure if this is the same or different problem so bear with me please.
> 
> I came home Sunday night and had grey screens. All my network channels were fine (regular and HD) but everything "cable" was bad. Diagnostics seemed to indicate cablecards working fine. Restarted a couple of times with no luck. Yesterday did the "take out cable card, reboot, do guided setup, put card back in, reboot, guided setup," and it worked. This morning, grey screens again.
> 
> ...


This is not a TA issue, although you may need one if your system has added some SDV channels. You just wouldn't get those channels without a TA.

Sounds like your cards are losing activation or pairing. Go to this TiVo support web page and follow the instructions to get more information on what the problem is. You have s-cards because you use the plural for cards. But you will have to know whether you have Motorola or Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco) cards. You can probably resolve that by trying both and seeing which one matches your screens. The solution to this will of course have to be provided by your cable co., either new cards (not likely the problem) or fixing whatever signal is causing you the problem. It's also possible they need to push a firmware update to your cards.


----------



## juliel (Jan 22, 2003)

dlfl said:


> This is not a TA issue, although you may need one if your system has added some SDV channels. You just wouldn't get those channels without a TA.
> 
> Sounds like your cards are losing activation or pairing. Go to this TiVo support web page [/URL]and follow the instructions to get more information on what the problem is. You have s-cards because you use the plural for cards. But you will have to know whether you have Motorola or Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco) cards. You can probably resolve that by trying both and seeing which one matches your screens. The solution to this will of course have to be provided by your cable co., either new cards (not likely the problem) or fixing whatever signal is causing you the problem. It's also possible they need to push a firmware update to your cards.


Sorry, misspoke. I have one Sci ATl M card. Unf someone else pays my cable, who doesn't live at the apt, so he has to call them and ask them to do whatever but I can't call them to do the work, nor is he at the apt to report on it. He of course believes the cable company's line of crap about "oh, just unplug it and it'll be ok."


----------



## Welshdog (Jan 4, 2005)

I had a brief exchange with TivoJerry and he confirmed that they are aware of the issue and continue to work on it. They have made changes to the software in previous updates - some people saw an improvement, others did not.


----------



## dadspet (Nov 25, 2008)

My new Tivo HD S3 gets gray screen on Analog about twice a week. I returned one Tivo S3 becuse of this problem hoping the new one wouldn't get gray screen but it has exactly the same problem. I've had the gray screens with Time Warner in NY and transported the Tivo to Fl for the winter and get the same gray screens with Comcast. Tivo recommended me getting a cable card (on Analog????????) but with all the post on gray screen with cable cards I surely don't want the added expense of a cable card with the same issues. 

I don't think I had this problem a few months ago. 

The gray screens are making my TIVO worthless since it seems to happen when I want to have a recording made and I miss the recording. I for one will not renew my subscription unless this issue is resolved and even then I don't really see much difference between a cable company DVR and my TIVO 
.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dadspet said:


> Tivo recommended me getting a cable card (on Analog????????) but with all the post on gray screen with cable cards I surely don't want the added expense of a cable card with the same issues.


Did you read the *Known Issues* post stickied at the very top of the forum? That explains the issue and why a CableCard will usually eliminate it.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

The TiVoHD can not be relied upon to receive and record analog television with or without a cable card installed. That situation has existed for over a year now. Most of the time it does fine but it has failed to record numerous shows due to gray screens eliciting a few comments from my wife that would make a sailor blush.


----------



## unplug (Nov 28, 2009)

have same problem. *did notice it started when i had unit stop recording what it thought i wanted to watch.* will put back for it to record and see if that helps. I also tried several things to see if I could fix it and only thing I found that would work is *change channel and arrow down one and hit select this changes tuner and then hit channel up or down.* this has worked every time so far, better than a reboot.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> The TiVoHD can not be relied upon to receive and record analog television with or without a cable card installed. That situation has existed for over a year now. Most of the time it does fine but it has failed to record numerous shows due to gray screens eliciting a few comments from my wife that would make a sailor blush.


While all that is true, it's also worth nothing that only a small percentage of cable systems remain without digital simulcast (digital versions of channels 1-100 that replace the analog versions when a CableCard is installed).


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> While all that is true, it's also worth nothing that only a small percentage of cable systems remain without digital simulcast (digital versions of channels 1-100 that replace the analog versions when a CableCard is installed).


No, its not worth noting that at all. It has absolutely no relevance if your cable company happens to be among that (arguable) small percentage.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Another recording gray-screened in the middle today. Damn it Tivo FIX YOUR SOFTWARE! If there was ever a bug that could be literally called a showstopper this is it and A YEAR IS TOO LONG WITHOUT A FIX!!


----------

