# Verizon FIOS and setting up a Mini



## bigtang1 (Feb 12, 2015)

Just wanted to share my findings with the group as this was a little harder than anticipated.

1) You already have a MoCa network ! DO NOT turn your Tivo device into a MoCa server. This crashed my network to the point I had to physically reset my router. In the Network connections section just change from Ethernet to MoCa - this just works - I was surprised too.
2) After changing to MoCa and confirming that you can connect (connect to Tivo service now) make sure the name of your device DOES NOT HAVE A SPACE IN IT - ie change "Living Room" to "LivingRoom"
3) Reboot your main box.
4) Connect again to the Tivo service - yeah, I know, do it again.
5) Now go thru the procedure to set up the Mini - use Moca as your connection type and continue thru setup.
6) I got the dreaded "V70" error - a Tivo DVR could not be found. Unplug the mini and go thru the setup again - this fixed it for me. Another reboot of the main DVR may be necessary as well.
7) Couple of other points that I learned that may be interesting to you. If you still have troubles it is important that your cable splitters support 2GHz (mine currently don't, and it works but I hear that could play a part in the issue). Next point if you have issues with getting Moca to work is to select a specific channel in the Moca settings instead of Auto - make sure both the Tivo and the Mini use the same channel if you select it.

Hope this helps - took me several days to get this to work and the Tivo community was very helpful. The very first mistake that ruined the first night was to make my Tivo a Moca server as the instructions indicated - total disaster when Verizon FIOS already has MoCa running - just switch to Moca, no new server necessary.


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

Thanks! Can you recommend a good moca splitter for me? I currently have one that Verizon provided by it only goes up to 1ghz.

I need at least 6 outputs.

Thanks,!


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You don't need 2ghz splitters. You also don't need to leave spaces out of the TiVo names.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Arcady said:


> You don't need 2ghz splitters. You also don't need to leave spaces out of the TiVo names.


Correct...MOCA as we use it on FiOS and cable runs in the MOCA D band (1125 to 1525 MHz). The WAN connection from a FiOS ONT (assuming you are using coax for WAN vs. ethernet) is in the C band (900 to 1025 MHz). While 1.6 MHz splitters are desirable, MOCA signals are strong enough to work through standard 1MHz splitters.

BTW, MOCA 2.0 extends the upper end of the D band to 1675 MHz, so a 1.675 GHz splitter is still optimal.

ETA: the FiOS cable signal is very hot and can sometimes effect the MOCA signal at a Roamio, as well as being outside TiVos design spec for the Roamio tuners. We have an 8 way splitter and still needed 6db of attenuation of the signal to get down to a 95% to 100% signal with a SNR of 35 to 39db. Since doing that, we haven't had a single connection issue between our Minis and our Roamios.


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

Diana Collins said:


> Correct...MOCA as we use it on FiOS and cable runs in the MOCA D band (1125 to 1525 MHz). The WAN connection from a FiOS ONT (assuming you are using coax for WAN vs. ethernet) is in the C band (900 to 1025 MHz). While 1.6 MHz splitters are desirable, MOCA signals are strong enough to work through standard 1MHz splitters.
> 
> BTW, MOCA 2.0 extends the upper end of the D band to 1675 MHz, so a 1.6 MHz splitter is still optimal.
> 
> ETA: the FiOS cable signal is very hot and can sometimes effect the MOCA signal at a Roamio, as well as being outside TiVos design spec for the Roamio tuners. We have an 8 way splitter and still needed 6db of attenuation of the signal to get down to a 95% to 100% signal with a SNR of 35 to 39db. Since doing that, we haven't had a single connection issue between our Minis and our Roamios.


Thanks for your response.. but i'm still a little confused...

I have Verizon FIOS --- connect ONT via Ethernet.. I want to maximize the signal strength for the FIOs to the Roamio Plus and Minis... I am planning to connect the Roamio Plus and (4) Minis via Moca.

Currently I'm on a verizon PDI 8 way splitter --- and would like to know if there are any accessories I need to buy to make the FIOS signal connection operate at optimal level.

Diana, do you have a recommendation on the exact splitter you're using for your run? Although I've read the verizon PDI 1000MHZ is good, I want to "upgrade" it to a better range.

You said "We have an 8 way splitter and still needed 6db of attenuation of the signal to get down to a 95% to 100% signal with a SNR of 35 to 39db. "
- Can you explain a little bit on this? Which 8 way splitter are you using? How did you get the 6db of attenuation? When you say the FIOS is HOT, how does that affect the tivos?

Thanks again for your help!


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

While we have been FiOS internet customers for 8 years, we only switched to FiOS TV last June. Before that we had DirecTV so all the coax in my house was long ago upgraded quad shielded, solid copper RG6 so we may well have been getting a "hotter" signal at the TiVos than some. However, TiVo has frequently blamed all manner of reception problems on the FiOS signal being "too strong." The TiVo recommended signal level and SNR readings are on this page: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150#signal_quality

The signal is "hot" in the first place because TiVos are designed to work on most cable systems, where there may be hundreds of feet of cable between the last amplification point and your home which will deliver a far lower signal strength that the signal generated by the ONT. In addition, TiVo amplifies the incoming signal to compensate for the 6 way split inside the unit.

While I am personally dubious of their claim that "too hot" a signal can "burn out" the tuners (has TiVo never heard of automatic gain control??), I was having a problem with very intermittent connection issues from a couple of Minis. I lowered the signal such that the lowest signal on either TiVo was well below the maximum, even though some parts of the frequency band still have a 100% with -40db SNR. To get those down into the TiVo recommended range would have sent weakest signal below the minimum (one Roamio reads consistently higher than the other).

So what I did was add an inline attenuator. Here is a photo of the splitter and attenuator:










The attenuator is the barrel with the blue and white label. I got a 3db, 6db and 12db attenuator, and the 6db one did the job. Here is a closer view of the splitter itself:










As you can see, it is a PDI-8 which was installed by the Verizon tech that did the coax connection at the ONT (and brought the cablecards) and is rated from 5 to 1675 MHz. Each port of an 8 way splitter introduces 12.5db of attenuation, so I have a total of 18.5db attenuation between my ONT and the TiVos (plus whatever the cable adds).

Since doing that, I have not had a single issue with the Minis.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Oh...and make sure any unused ports are terminated with a 75 ohm terminator.


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

you're the best Diana!!! Thank you so much for your help!


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

*I can't find the 6db inline attenuator or the splitter online anywhere. Does anyone know where I can buy these?

Thanks,
-Leo


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPIT6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you scroll down a bit, there is an option to buy a 3dB, 6dB and 12dB attenuator as a group for $7.93. That's what I bought so that I could insert 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 or 24 dB of attenuation as needed.

You don't need the PDI splitter - any 8-way that goes up to 1675 MHz will perform the same (you can probably even use 1000Mhz splitters without issues).


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

Thanks -- is there anyway to see the signal strength on the tivo box to confirm whether or not an Attenuator is needed? The signal strength and the SNR.

What is the recommend signal strength and SNR for tivo roamio plus?


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## sar840t2 (Mar 1, 2003)

bigtang1 said:


> ...2) After changing to MoCa and confirming that you can connect (connect to Tivo service now) make sure the name of your device DOES NOT HAVE A SPACE IN IT - ie change "Living Room" to "LivingRoom"...


Can you explain why? I'm using MOCA and don't see this limitation. Surely it cannot be a limitation of Verizon's FIOS?

Edit: Ah, but I'm not using a Mini. Maybe that's where someone dropped the ball?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

leo38cheng said:


> Thanks -- is there anyway to see the signal strength on the tivo box to confirm whether or not an Attenuator is needed? The signal strength and the SNR.
> 
> What is the recommend signal strength and SNR for tivo roamio plus?


Settings & Messages, Account & System Info, DVR Diagnostics. Scroll though the tuners. As was posted, signal under 100 (since 100 is 100+) and SNR about 36db. Also note the RS numbers which are 0 when perfect. Those are error counters.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> While we have been FiOS internet customers for 8 years, we only switched to FiOS TV last June. Before that we had DirecTV so all the coax in my house was long ago upgraded quad shielded, solid copper RG6 so we may well have been getting a "hotter" signal at the TiVos than some. However, TiVo has frequently blamed all manner of reception problems on the FiOS signal being "too strong." The TiVo recommended signal level and SNR readings are on this page: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150#signal_quality
> 
> The signal is "hot" in the first place because TiVos are designed to work on most cable systems, where there may be hundreds of feet of cable between the last amplification point and your home which will deliver a far lower signal strength that the signal generated by the ONT. In addition, TiVo amplifies the incoming signal to compensate for the 6 way split inside the unit.
> 
> ...


 They actually used crimp on connectors? They should be compression connectors. I hope that wasn't the DirecTV or FiOS tech that put on those connectors. If so they should be made to come back out and terminate the coax cable correctly.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> They actually used crimp on connectors? They should be compression connectors. I hope that wasn't the DirecTV or FiOS tech that put on those connectors. If so they should be made to come back out and terminate the coax cable correctly.


No...we first went to satellite in 1997 and those are all home made connectors done a minimum of 10 years ago (some may go all the way back to 1997). Cablevision had used cheap RG-59, so every TV got two new drops. I keep meaning to replace the connectors with compression fittings, but haven't gotten around to it.


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

Diana Collins said:


> Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPIT6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> If you scroll down a bit, there is an option to buy a 3dB, 6dB and 12dB attenuator as a group for $7.93. That's what I bought so that I could insert 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 or 24 dB of attenuation as needed.
> 
> You don't need the PDI splitter - any 8-way that goes up to 1675 MHz will perform the same (you can probably even use 1000Mhz splitters without issues).


Hi Diana,

I can't seem to find any MOCA 2.0 splitters that are 8 way. Do you have any links to actual products?

Thanks,
Leo


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

leo38cheng said:


> Hi Diana,
> 
> I can't seem to find any MOCA 2.0 splitters that are 8 way. Do you have any links to actual products?
> 
> ...


Based on the picture, the one Diana has appears to have been installed by - or purchased from - Verizon.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> While we have been FiOS internet customers for 8 years, we only switched to FiOS TV last June. Before that we had DirecTV so all the coax in my house was long ago upgraded quad shielded, solid copper RG6 so we may well have been getting a "hotter" signal at the TiVos than some. However, TiVo has frequently blamed all manner of reception problems on the FiOS signal being "too strong." The TiVo recommended signal level and SNR readings are on this page: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150#signal_quality
> 
> The signal is "hot" in the first place because TiVos are designed to work on most cable systems, where there may be hundreds of feet of cable between the last amplification point and your home which will deliver a far lower signal strength that the signal generated by the ONT. In addition, TiVo amplifies the incoming signal to compensate for the 6 way split inside the unit.
> 
> ...


WOW, the ONT's output must run crazy hot to need that kind of attenuation with that large of a splitter!


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

leo38cheng said:


> I can't seem to find any MOCA 2.0 splitters that are 8 way. Do you have any links to actual products?


Moca 2.0 runs up to 1675 MHz. Any regular splitter between 1.5 GHz to 2 GHz can be safely considered "moca 2.0" friendly. There are even 1GHz splitters that work fine. The "moca splitter" labels are just marketing.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> WOW, the ONT's output must run crazy hot to need that kind of attenuation with that large of a splitter!


I know My ONT does. Mine goes to an eight way splitter and I can split it several more times before going to a TiVo and still have no issues.


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Moca 2.0 runs up to 1675 MHz. Any regular splitter between 1.5 GHz to 2 GHz can be safely considered "moca 2.0" friendly. There are even 1GHz splitters that work fine. The "moca splitter" labels are just marketing.


Do you have one to recommend? Thanks!


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## COBeav (Jan 9, 2002)

leo38cheng said:


> Do you have one to recommend? Thanks!


I just installed one of these and haven't had any problems.

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HOL-GHS-8PRO-M


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

is this one good? will this one work better than the PDI verizon fios splitter (5-1000MHZ)

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HOL-GHS-8PRO-M


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

leo38cheng said:


> is this one good? will this one work better than the PDI verizon fios splitter (5-1000MHZ)


Yes, that one will be fine. The one I have WAS installed by Verizon. You will note that it also is rated from 5 to 1675MHz.

@aaronwt: You gave me the push I needed...I ordered a compression tool and a bunch of connectors. I'll be redoing connectionss this weekend.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Moca 2.0 runs up to 1675 MHz. Any regular splitter between 1.5 GHz to 2 GHz can be safely considered "moca 2.0" friendly. There are even 1GHz splitters that work fine. The "moca splitter" labels are just marketing.


Most regular splitters that go up to 860mhz work fine with MoCA. It's not like they just drop off at 860, they just aren't tested above that. There is no reason to buy MoCA-specific splitters unless the service provider installs them for free.



aaronwt said:


> I know My ONT does. Mine goes to an eight way splitter and I can split it several more times before going to a TiVo and still have no issues.


Wow, that's hot. I'm used to dealing with cable where you can't even split through a 4-way before running out of power. What is it in dB? Like +20 coming out of the ONT or something?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Not sure what it is coming off the ONT. The FiOS tech put the eight-way splitter on specifically to lower the signal strength since it was so high. That was initially in 2007 with a BPON ONT. It was switched out to a GPON ONT in 2012 and still needed the eight way splitter.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Not sure what it is coming off the ONT. The FiOS tech put the eight-way splitter on specifically to lower the signal strength since it was so high. That was initially in 2007 with a BPON ONT. It was switched out to a GPON ONT in 2012 and still needed the eight way splitter.


We switched to GPON in 2012 as well (we might have the same model ONT). I actually had to add ANOTHER 3db of attenuation at one TiVo. So for one Roamio there is 18db and for the other 21db of attenuation. That still yields a signal reading of 95% to 98% across all frequencies and a SNR from -35db to -39db.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> We switched to GPON in 2012 as well (we might have the same model ONT). I actually had to add ANOTHER 3db of attenuation at one TiVo. So for one Roamio there is 18db and for the other 21db of attenuation. That still yields a signal reading of 95% to 98% across all frequencies and a SNR from -35db to -39db.


WOW. I'm used to dealing with cable where if you add more than about 6dB of attenuation without amplification, you're dead in the water.


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

I currently have signal strength at 100 and db at 41 is this toooo high for tivo?


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

Diana Collins said:


> We switched to GPON in 2012 as well (we might have the same model ONT). I actually had to add ANOTHER 3db of attenuation at one TiVo. So for one Roamio there is 18db and for the other 21db of attenuation. That still yields a signal reading of 95% to 98% across all frequencies and a SNR from -35db to -39db.


My current signal is 100% and the db is 40... Is that too high still?


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

leo38cheng said:


> My current signal is 100% and the db is 40... Is that too high still?


According to TiVo, yes. They want the SNR to be in the 37 or 38 db range, and the signal strength to be less than 100% (99% is OK, just so they know it isn't more than 100%).


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## leo38cheng (Feb 1, 2015)

Diana Collins said:


> According to TiVo, yes. They want the SNR to be in the 37 or 38 db range, and the signal strength to be less than 100% (99% is OK, just so they know it isn't more than 100%).


Thanks Diana -- I've added a 3 and a 6 attenuation before the switch .... should I add attenuations before the tivo as well?


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