# Series 3 Freeze-Reboot: What Should I Do?



## shfawaz (May 12, 2004)

I have a series 3 HD Tivo, which is one amongst four that I upgraded to a 750Gb WD HDD when I first installed it over a year ago. I also added a 1Tb Hitachi external drive in an Antec enclosure which has worked fine for over six months. Sometime after the 9.3a update came down, my Tivo began displaying symptoms of freezing in the middle of recorded show watching and I sometimes would turn on the TV and get no picture (using HDMI) whatsoever despite many remote key presses and pressing the buttons on the front of the unit. I'd have to unplug it to get the welcome screen and force it to reboot. Everything works for a while but it soon frezzes, pixelates, then reboots. This happens more frequently, and new show are becoming unwatchable due to freezes and reboots. Advancing during freezes sometimes allows me to sort of SKIP over the freeze and sometimes it continues playback, other times it doesn't respond and eventually (1-2 minutes) later it reboots.

My questions:

I've used spinrite before to fix other HDD's that had issues when I used HR10-250 HD Direc-Tivo, and it proved to solve similar issues. Is it worth going thru this process with the internal drive? And if so, is there any way to determine which is problem HDD, internal/external (I assume this is the cause of my issues).

I don't want to divorce the external drive to isolate the problem and lose my shows, but can I replace the 750Gb and maybe duplicate it with DD to a new 1Tb internal drive, will this still work with my external drive if I do so?

This is my third series 3 Tivo that exhibits these same symptoms. On one, I replaced the HDD and that fixed everything (no external drive) and the second had to be replaced completely since a new HDD didn't fix that one-it was apparently another hardware issue.

Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

shfawaz said:


> I have a series 3 HD Tivo, which is one amongst four that I upgraded to a 750Gb WD HDD when I first installed it over a year ago. I also added a 1Tb Hitachi external drive in an Antec enclosure which has worked fine for over six months. Sometime after the 9.3a update came down, my Tivo began displaying symptoms of freezing in the middle of recorded show watching and I sometimes would turn on the TV and get no picture (using HDMI) whatsoever despite many remote key presses and pressing the buttons on the front of the unit. I'd have to unplug it to get the welcome screen and force it to reboot. Everything works for a while but it soon frezzes, pixelates, then reboots. This happens more frequently, and new show are becoming unwatchable due to freezes and reboots. Advancing during freezes sometimes allows me to sort of SKIP over the freeze and sometimes it continues playback, other times it doesn't respond and eventually (1-2 minutes) later it reboots.
> ...


I have exactly the same problem on a stock Series 3. I've never caught it in the act of locking up but I find it on the dead black screen every morning, like you, requiring a power cycle. I haven't had more than 12 hours of continuous uptime since I got CableCARDs installed on Monday.

Last night I tried a commanded Restart before I went to bed at 11PM thinking I'd go for as few hours between reboots as possible. It was still frozen this morning at 9 AM.

I'm thinking I need to do the DirecTV DVR SOP and put a power cycler set to every 8 hours on the S3 power. 

The problem is buggy code in the 9.3a release. Outsourced coders ain't what they used to be.

You can call TiVo support to add yours to the list. The tech told a new software release would be out in 1 , 2, 3 soon -sometime weeks. 

In any case, don't blame your external hard drive. I'm about to add exactly the same setup with Hitachi 1TB and Antec MX-1 to mine. I just got the drive.


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## shfawaz (May 12, 2004)

I decided I had enough and finally pulled the 750Gb Seagate drive from the Tivo with intent to spin-rite it. As soon as I plugged it into my USB SATA converter the drive controller started to smoke, not a good sign. I had another duplicate drive available, I removed the controller and put it on this one and I couldn't get spinrite to recognize the drive. The drive motor was apparently running but no joy in getting the drive to show up on the PC.

I ended up installing a new WD 1Tb drive after using instant-cake to prep it with 9.2, loaded it into the Tivo, reprogrammed, and for the past two days everything has worked fine with no freezes or any of the previous symptoms until this morning where it was stuck on the powering up screen with all the LED's and Tivo Logo on the front lit up. I unplugged the Tivo for a minute and plugged it back it. Of course, 9.3a was apparently downloaded and upgraded the Tivo last night. Its working fine now, but time will tell if this fix is permanent or if 9.3a will render this Tivo useless again.

I still have my external 1Tb Hitachi drive in the Antec MX-10 enclosure still unplugged for now, while I wait to see how the new standalone drive in the Tivo fares for a few days. Hopefully I'll be able to plug it in once I'm convinced that there isn't any other issues. 

Of course, we lost probably about 1.5Tb of saved programming (most of it unwatched from the past season-saved to watch during the re-run filled summer, but it looks like that plan is a bust!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Evidently, *TiVo* thinks all of us with Series 3 are imagining things and have collectively, simultaneously suffered hard drive failures just as the 9.3 upgrade hit, even though the tech said when I called it was a known issue in the 9.3a software. I had hoped they at least knew there was a problem. Guess not.

I'd like my lifetime subscription fee(s) back, please. I kinda wanted it to work.


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## 123TeeVoe (Jul 4, 2008)

I was an early victim of this problem. After about 20 minutes on hold, followed by 15 minutes talking to the first line support tech, I was escalated to higher level tech. (By this point, I had rebooted several times with no peripherals, including wireless adapter, connected.) The 2d tier tech said it was likely a hardware problem, so he authorized a swap for a new box.

I got the new box, but soon had the same problem. So I called again, saying I think I received a refurbished replacement with the same intermittent hardware problem that must not have been detected during testing. 

I was put on hold, and then the tech came back saying they have identified a problem with software version 9.3a and the workaround is to unplug to restart (not very helpful) until the new system software is released in a week or two. 

I asked if I could get it (the beta version of new software) now. He put me on hold, and said they don't facilitate that but I could sign up/apply as a generic beta tester. 

Since I haven't been able to use the box--which behaves badly if it has cable signal in, and just restarted after being frozen in front of me now--I think TiVo should give us a couple month's subscription credit. 

I am also wondering if the added signals for HDTV cable on my cable provider (I haven't signed up for HDTV yet and don't have a cable card, but the garbled signal is on the cable) are messing up or overwhelming the TiVo. In which case the software should during "channel finding" ignore HDTV signal if no cable card is present, hint hint, try that!


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## hiddentrout (Feb 1, 2002)

123TeeVoe said:


> I was an early victim of this problem. After about 20 minutes on hold, followed by 15 minutes talking to the first line support tech, I was escalated to higher level tech. (By this point, I had rebooted several times with no peripherals, including wireless adapter, connected.) The 2d tier tech said it was likely a hardware problem, so he authorized a swap for a new box.
> 
> I got the new box, but soon had the same problem.


That's a pretty big irritant to me as well, that their own support seems to know less about the problem than the users do...



123TeeVoe said:


> I was put on hold, and then the tech came back saying they have identified a problem with software version 9.3a and the workaround is to unplug to restart (not very helpful) until the new system software is released *in a week or two.*


Nothing like a month or so without functional TV eh..?

(can you imagine if 9.3 had rolled out during the OLYMPICS?!)


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

123TeeVoe said:


> I was put on hold, and then the tech came back saying they have identified a problem with software version 9.3a and the workaround is to unplug to restart (not very helpful) until the new system software is released in a week or two.


This is actually kind of promising...the fact that they at least KNOW there's a problem and are working on is a good thing. This being summertime, I can totally live with it for another week or two, but if I had to shell out money for a new hard drive or wait months, we'd have a problem.

I've put off calling Tivo because I'm afraid off getting dumb rep after dumb rep. I'm typically a patient guy but for some reason, dealing with on-the-phone tech support always drives me insane, because they're often no more educated then me ("ok, unplug the unit, wait 30 seconds, and plug it in".... don't you think I tried that! haha).

Does anyone know if it's possible to actually email Tivo support, this way I could attach links to the posts where the problem is mentioned? The fact that all the reps seem to think "it's a hardware problem" is proof enough that I would need some evidence to show them they're wrong, lol.


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## garyriet (Dec 23, 2007)

I experienced lockups, slow response and reboots for the since June 13th. After reading the forums and basically losing my mind "Oh my GOD what are we going to do the Tivo is broke" we pickup up a Seagate 1TB drive from Best Buy for $180. Tried running WinMFS and it would just stop responding. SO I downloaded MFSLive and tried a backup that way, it failed with a bunch of errors. I then ran dd_rescue it found 8 errors completed and then went to expand it. mfsadd failed with a no header error or something , long night can not remember the exact error message. Booted back into windows and was able to do a truncated backup. Lost all my recordings but saved the wishlists and season passes. Have not had any problems the last 12 hours. SO I would say it is definetly releated to hard drive issues. Is there a way to telnet or ssh into the Series 3? I it be cool to run iostat and sar to get some performance data from the unit. 
Gary


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## tlrowley (Jun 10, 2004)

I have a Series 3 that's started to exhibit these problems. It's stock, with the exception of using the official external hard drive. I don't watch much, if any, live TV, so I'm mostly seeing the symptom of rebooting when I select a program to play from the NPL. I have also seen spontaneous reboots while watching a recorded program. I'm not using cable cards, this unit is OTA only. Ironically, I got the S3 because I was finding the HR-20 to be unreliable, and I mostly watch OTA.

I'm not averse to replacing the HD if this will solve the problem. Has anyone had the problems recur after installing a new HD and being "upgraded" to 9.3?


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## jollywally (Jul 7, 2008)

I am another one with the S3 & WD Expander (TiVo supplied). Freeze-ups and reboots abound to the point where we have given up watching any recorded TV. Watching live TV through TiVo seems more stable as long as you don't hit pause. If you hit pause one or twice during a show, the same freeze-up occurs.Two calls to TiVo service had me doing a "Kick-Start 54" but it didn't help. Service rep said a new box wouldn't help as it would immediately download version 9.3a and I would have the same problem. He said I needed to wait until a fix was distributed. I don't understand why v9.3a is still being downloaded when they know it's a bomb. Any word from anywhere when we will see a fix??


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Aren't there people who work for TIVO on this board? If so, can you guys maybe give us an update on this 9.3a problem and when a fix might be available? I would imagine there are a lot of frustrated users out there, and not just the ones on this board.


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## hiddentrout (Feb 1, 2002)

tlrowley said:


> I have a Series 3 that's started to exhibit these problems. It's stock, with the exception of using the official external hard drive. I don't watch much, if any, live TV, so I'm mostly seeing the symptom of rebooting when I select a program to play from the NPL. I have also seen spontaneous reboots while watching a recorded program. I'm not using cable cards, this unit is OTA only. Ironically, I got the S3 because I was finding the HR-20 to be unreliable, and I mostly watch OTA.
> 
> I'm not averse to replacing the HD if this will solve the problem. Has anyone had the problems recur after installing a new HD and being "upgraded" to 9.3?


...like gary (and I also posted this in the main S3 problems thread) I replaced my HD over the weekend, it did update to 9.3, and I haven't had any problems.

I'll post a note if problems reappear with the new HD...


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## tomob (Jul 7, 2008)

OK, I just went in to BBY and had my series 3 replaced with a new in the box unit. Will I just have this problem again when i connect and it updates software?

http://humanvoice.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/best-buy-does-it-right/

What do you think?

tomob


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

tomob said:


> OK, I just went in to BBY and had my series 3 replaced with a new in the box unit. Will I just have this problem again when i connect and it updates software?
> 
> http://humanvoice.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/best-buy-does-it-right/
> 
> ...


Don't forget to report back on whether or not the problem re-emerges... Thanks


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## tlrowley (Jun 10, 2004)

I reached the end of my rope yesterday, 3 reboots while "watching" a 30 minute show. I've ordered a drive and I'll keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't reappear.

One indicator that it might really be a drive in my case is that the problem certainly seems worse, the warmer it gets. It's supposed to be 108 today, how many reboots do you think I'll have during Jeopardy! today?


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

You know what's weird...I just called Tivo for the hell of it and the guy did mention that the fix was in "the latest stages of development", but couldn't give an ETA on when it would be available. I mentioned that I've been having the problem since about three weeks ago when I assumed 9.3a hit, but then he told me that rolled out in APRIL. That's weird. Why are we all having problems now if the s/w came out in April? 

Weird. IDK I might hook up my S2 and just wait it out because this is way too frustrating. While I'll miss HD, I can live w/o it as long as I know it'll be back by the fall.


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## tlrowley (Jun 10, 2004)

I cancelled my drive order (Thank you Weaknees for being gracious). I came across this DVR Expander Troubleshooting page, which I hadn't seen. When I ran the kickstart 54, I was rewarded with errors on my external drive, for all but one of the tests. Since I would have lost everything with a new drive anyhow, I divorced my external, and I'll try running on the original drive for a while. So far, one entire program from December, it's been fine , although my heart skips a bit when it goes black at the start of a commercial break.

I guess I'll have to see about having the WD My DVR drive replaced - anyone know offhand what the warranty is? It's about 6 months old.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I might hook up my S2 and just wait it out because this is way too frustrating. While I'll miss HD, I can live w/o it as long as I know it'll be back by the fall.


This is the only solution I have found. I ended up having to do the following with my series 3:

1) Remove all HD channels from the channel list (this is a feat in itself if you can actually remove them and get them to actually stay gone)

2) Remove all scheduled HD records from the to-do list

3) Remove season passes for HD channels

It's been working fine, more or less, ever since (still a bit slow but no lockups or reboots SO FAR). It is very important that steps 2 and 3 be followed. If you ONLY perform step 1, your tivo will still change to the HD channels for to-do list recordings and season passes, even though you have removed the channels (at least mine did!). Of course, once your 9.3abug-afflicted box starts doing something in HD, it's all over, so the best solution at this point to be able to use the thing at all is to prevent it from ever tuning to an HD channel.

FYI, I'm using Comcast with 2 Motorolla cablecards.


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## Ziggy86 (Jun 23, 2004)

So we have an HD Tivo unit but can't use the HD features?

Hope this gets fixed quick


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Ziggy86 said:


> So we have an HD Tivo unit but can't use the HD features?


Forget HD, I won't even be able to watch any of my channels over 60 if I use the S2 since I don't have a cable box. All my movie channels will be rendered useless. NOT COOL.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

*Breakthrough!*

It finally occurred to me that I most often had the lock up problem while the receiver and TV were turned off, where I'd get the lockup and black screen on power up. What tipped me off was the TiVo would lock-up immediately if I rebooted with the receiver and TV off!

I moved the HDMI cable to plug directly to the TV and kept it powered up. No usual wee hours lock up! It's been up for 18 hours now. I'll see how long it lasts.

I'm suspecting this lock-up problem is *related to the HDCP handshake over HDMI.*

Are any of you having the problem NOT using HDMI to connect?

For info it's a Onkyo HT-SR800 receiver (that doesn't support audio over HDMI, I use TOSlink) and a Sharp Aquos LC-32D62U LCD TV.

(And to those who are thinking _idiot!_...I long ago tried pushing the buttons on the panel - no lights are on, no recordings happen- unplugging the HDMI cables, switching inputs and anything other than a power cycle with no luck. If it was merely not displaying explain why the S3 misses recordings every time while the To Do list always tells me "Not recorded because ...the power was off."

It got to the point where I manually selected recording of multiple showing of the same episode so I might have one complete recording.  I hooked up the S3 power to an X10 module so I can power cycle the S3 when needed every few hours from the remote. Woot! Hot setup! Are you proud, TiVo? AFAIK, the D* DVRs were never this bad.

What was really torquing me off was having to listen to the THX fanfare and watch the TiVo guy take a bow, over and over and over and over again on each power cycle. )

Rant/digression: It's aggravating that there must 1000s of lines of code in there that serve anything but the customers, what with all of the DRM and no copy flags and encryption and handshakes and authorizations and gathering of data for advertisers.... so when THAT breaks the thing actually working, just tell the customers they're doing something wrong...like turning off the TV.

Maybe this is for the networks who wanted to be able to disable skipping commercials like they do on DVDs. This way you couldn't even turn off the TV. Now if they make it so you can't close your eyes.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

hiddentrout said:


> ...like gary (and I also posted this in the main S3 problems thread) I replaced my HD over the weekend, it did update to 9.3, and I haven't had any problems.
> 
> I'll post a note if problems reappear with the new HD...


I tried the making lots o' space thing. Permanent deletes. It was looking like the problem happened when the S3 had to delete a recording to make space. It seemed to last longer but it still locked up.

I've run into a handful of other bugs, like evidently I'm not allowed to edit my own channel list, I MUST agree I get those on-demand channels that don't work and others. I wouldn't mind that so much if it didn't also insist that Logo and the Spanish channels and the ones I don't receive are my favorites. I change my preferences. The changes are undone at the next hourly power up. Resistance to Comast-think is futile. Look for the guide to have 2/3 a screen full of ads soon.


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## AdmiralTivo (Feb 25, 2005)

netringer:

If the problem is related to the HDCP handshake over HDMI, then how would a HDD swap fix the problem?

I have my TiVo connected via HDMI to a receiver, but I'm 100% that I've watched the thing reboot over and over even when the TV and receiver are on. I did get a little relief when I prevented it from going to HD channels, but eventually even the non-HD channels would freeze and the unit would reboot.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

AdmiralTivo said:


> netringer:
> 
> If the problem is related to the HDCP handshake over HDMI, then how would a HDD swap fix the problem?
> 
> I have my TiVo connected via HDMI to a receiver, but I'm 100% that I've watched the thing reboot over and over even when the TV and receiver are on. I did get a little relief when I prevented it from going to HD channels, but eventually even the non-HD channels would freeze and the unit would reboot.


Mine seems be ok as long as no HD channels are >ever< tuned. If an HD channel is tuned, sometimes it looks like it's going to work but eventually just ends up locking up. It's >not< HDCP. It does it even when an HD channel is tuned with no HD output (i.e. over composite or s-video with no hdmi).

I really think it is a software problem related to some internal hard drives, but that is just my theory.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

AdmiralTivo said:


> netringer:
> 
> If the problem is related to the HDCP handshake over HDMI, then how would a HDD swap fix the problem?
> ...


If the problem is hard drive related then how does my leaving the TV on fix it? And how long does it take for a "failing" hard drive in a stock S3 to fail? I'm in week 3 of of my again, STOCK hard drive "failing," which began with 9.3 software upgrade and the CableCARD install.

I as yet haven't had a freeze since I rerouted the HDMI cable and kept the TV on. I've even tempted fate by going to standby mode. (I did have an unintentional power cycle when I accidentally pushed my X10 button. ) I'll be whooping it up if I get a clean 24 hours of uptime for the first time.

BTW, I was able to torture test my "failing" hard drive a few nights back by watching a transferring movie while it was recording 2 HD shows at the same time, i.e. Writing 3 HD streams while playing one being downloaded from the beginning. It never hiccuped. The S3 hasn't yet failed while I'm watching.

I'd be willing to put money on _multiple software bugs_ in 9.3a, though. As I've said, I'd had a few other merely annoying problems with the way it works with CableCARD


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## unit101 (Feb 14, 2007)

... is there anything else than needs to be said ?


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## sdzc (Sep 4, 2005)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Aren't there people who work for TIVO on this board? If so, can you guys maybe give us an update on this 9.3a problem and when a fix might be available? I would imagine there are a lot of frustrated users out there, and not just the ones on this board.


Yes they do, but they rarely, if ever, respond in a negative thread.

They will be more than happy to say a new this or that is being released, but getting them to respond to an actual issue? _Good luck..._


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I haven't gotten the 24 hours of continuous uptime yet, but it's still rock solid. I haven't had a single lockup since rerouting the HDMI connect.

I'll buy that it's not HDCP because the lock up happens even as the output would be just the intro or menu screens. There can't be any HDCP on those. (I hope.)

It occurred to me that it could be something else related to the HDMI connect, like an electrical ground loop. Considering I have a cable ground in the mix...

There are a few other changes, crash vs. not: in my current config, I have a single massive HDMI cable vs. two going from the TiVo->reciever-->TV. The other cable is a very good one, but not the most premium from mono.

I absolutely cannot imagine how changing or powering the equipment at the other end of the video _output_ causes the S3 TiVo to crash or not, but it does. 

I'll do some more testing by turning the TV off for the first time tonight. As I said I can see the effect immediately because the TiVo locked up on boot if the equipment was off. Even as I type that, I'm amazed.


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## clgdswr (Jun 11, 2008)

i had the same tivo lockup issues everyone else is having=======after 6months of using tivo hd it went into a reboot cycle that wouldnt end========i removed the 160gig wd hard drive it came with and I installed a 320 gig WD sata drive=====used instantcake====and tivo worked perfect with 9.3 for a few weeks====and its now intermittantly locking up again but not power cycling=====i would probably upgrade if I were you but expect it to lock up until TIVO releases whatever fix they are going to release=========and heres a thought-------what is going to be wrong with the next software? Maybe the programmers will cause the HDMI port to short out intermittantly and burnt out millions of HD tv's............lets hope they get it right


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## aymanme (May 8, 2001)

My issue seems to be a little different (or maybe I am just misunderstanding what everyone else is saying). My Tivo is "working" for at least some amount of time, certainly not hours, but more than minutes. Then it just craps out and reboots. After it reboots, the cycle starts again. Any tips? I have personally not seen it happen, I've only seen it on the "tivo is starting up". 

Edit: Now I have personally seen it happen, temp looks ok, fan seems to be working, so I don't think it is a heat issue. Not sure what else it could be.


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## AdmiralTivo (Feb 25, 2005)

I had the same issue, aymanme. I tried all of the suggestions in the various threads here. What eventually (kinda) worked was removing the cable input to the TiVo before it rebooted fully, and then tuning to a non-HD channel. I ensured that no HD recordings were in the queue as well. I reconnected the cable and was able to watch SD programming as well as recorded shows (both HD and non) for a few days.

Eventually though, even this stopped working and I had to disconnect the cable input permanently and watch only recorded programming. I decided to swap out the HDD myself and that seemed to fix the problem, at least for now. I am up and running with full functionality, it's been at least 5 days with no issues thus far.

I'm hoping that the new 9.4 update is partly to address this issue, and will prevent it from ruining another HDD.


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## aymanme (May 8, 2001)

AdmiralTivo said:


> I had the same issue, aymanme. I tried all of the suggestions in the various threads here. What eventually (kinda) worked was removing the cable input to the TiVo before it rebooted fully, and then tuning to a non-HD channel.


I didn't go through the routine because I was just too busy with other things. However, once the 9.4 update hit my Tivo, it has worked flawlessly since then. No reboots in several days, whereas before it could not make it through a 1/2 hour show.


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## Malcolm Blanchar (Mar 26, 2007)

When I got back from vacation in early July, I had the problem of the series 3 freezing and rebooting about 20 minutes into watching recorded shows. Also, it would randomly reboot when I wasn't watching. My series 3 has a Western Digital expander I bought from Tivo last October. This weekend I finally got around to dealing with the problem. I first tried the kickstart 54 tests. About 20% into testing the expander, the system rebooted. So, I divorced the expander from the system. The series 3 then passed all the tests and has been working without any problems since. So, I suspect something had happened to the expander.

I still have 9.3. I think I might put the expander back on after 9.4 arrives. Anybody have thoughts about whether that should work? Or do I now own a $200 brick?


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

My first two S3s all ended up in freeze/reboot land after about 10 months. Both were connected using component cables - not HDMI.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

AdmiralTivo said:


> I had the same issue, aymanme. I tried all of the suggestions in the various threads here. What eventually (kinda) worked was removing the cable input to the TiVo before it rebooted fully, and then tuning to a non-HD channel. I ensured that no HD recordings were in the queue as well. I reconnected the cable and was able to watch SD programming as well as recorded shows (both HD and non) for a few days.
> 
> Eventually though, even this stopped working and I had to disconnect the cable input permanently and watch only recorded programming. I decided to swap out the HDD myself and that seemed to fix the problem, at least for now. I am up and running with full functionality, it's been at least 5 days with no issues thus far.
> 
> I'm hoping that the new 9.4 update is partly to address this issue, and will prevent it from ruining another HDD.


There seem to be several different problems going on right now so I'm not sure what steps to take, but I do know you're description is the closest to what I"m experiencing. With coax unplugged, the tivo works perfectly. Once I plug it in and try to navigate TV, it goes nuts. I was working with non-HD channels for a few days, but today it seems to be unable to do anything with live TV...It stutters, then freezes, then re-boots.

So a hard drive switch worked for you, huh? I'm reluctant as HELL to go get a new drive because I've read that didn't work for some people. But I'm also reluctant to go through the pain of disconnecting and shipping my unit only to have them send me a dead on in its place. I got a re-furb less then a year ago, so I think it's under warranty, but damn what a pain to send it back.

Does Tivo send you a unit to use while yours is being looked at? I don't think I should have to sit here w/o TV for three weeks while they work on the defective unit they sent me. Anyone have any experience w/ the refurbs? Thanks


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

I had the same problem when 9.3 came out.
I also ended up replacing the internal disk drive, which permanently fixed the problem (it's been many months with Tivo working flawlessly). Now, I did test the disk afterwards and did not find any issues, so I assumed that some part of the filesystem became corrupted during 9.3 update (area where the live buffer is stored - who knows).


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## oneitchyeye (Jul 23, 2008)

Having same problem here, just started on me. My TiVo Series 3 rebooted last night and came back fine, today was watching TV (about 12+ hours later) and it rebooted again. Would reboot, stay on the "now playing screen" and not do anything. A few times after rebooting it would start playing live TV for a few mins then reboot again. So I unplugged the cable and it worked fine. Plugged back in the cable and it started to choke, would not respond to remote control and reboot again. Unplug the cable and it is golden again. I'm watching all the recorded content fine. 

I suspect something in the cable cards or the signal. It seems unplugging the cable worked for others as well. When did the last update get pushed out?

Also has anyone contacted Tivo about this? It is too late tonight but I'll check with them in the morning.


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## Beachbum55 (Jan 1, 2004)

oneitchyeye said:


> Having same problem here, just started on me. My TiVo Series 3 rebooted last night and came back fine, today was watching TV (about 12+ hours later) and it rebooted again. Would reboot, stay on the "now playing screen" and not do anything. A few times after rebooting it would start playing live TV for a few mins then reboot again. So I unplugged the cable and it worked fine. Plugged back in the cable and it started to choke, would not respond to remote control and reboot again. Unplug the cable and it is golden again. I'm watching all the recorded content fine.
> 
> I suspect something in the cable cards or the signal. It seems unplugging the cable worked for others as well. When did the last update get pushed out?
> 
> Also has anyone contacted Tivo about this? It is too late tonight but I'll check with them in the morning.


My S3 has the same symptoms. I'm going on one week with a useless Tivo box. When the coax cable is disconnected, I have no problems watching previously recorded shows and navigating through the menus. Plug the cable in and it's HOSED!

I've contacted Tivo twice and they said it's a known issue and I was told last week that it would be "several weeks" before a fix was in place. I'm going to hold off on replacing the hard drive until I know more. Isn't 9.4 being pushed out to some people?


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## Beachbum55 (Jan 1, 2004)

I called Tivo technical support again today for an update regarding the lock-up/freezing/re-boot issues that I started to see on 7/14. 

This is the third time that I've talked to Tivo support over the last 10 days. During the first two calls, the technical support reps told me that a "fix was on the way", but couldn't pinpoint the exact date. 

The guy I spoke today recommended that I send in my unit for an exchange, as the next software version may or may not fix the problem. I thought about upgrading the drive, but Tivo is going to swap my S3 out for free. So, I'll give the exchange unit a try and hope that Tivo doesn't send out another release that hoses the hard drive.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Beachbum55 said:


> The guy I spoke today recommended that I send in my unit for an exchange, as the next software version may or may not fix the problem. I thought about upgrading the drive, but Tivo is going to swap my S3 out for free. So, I'll give the exchange unit a try and hope that Tivo doesn't send out another release that hoses the hard drive.


How does that work? Do you have to pay to ship it to them? What are you supposed to do without your Tivo in the interim? I guess get over it... If you could give me some details as to what the process is like for sending the unit in, I'd appreciate. I'm considering it myself...


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## Davenport (Jul 24, 2008)

I purchased my S3 in May of last year. It's worked perfectly for 14 months and then last Monday (July 14th) it started rebooting every 10 minutes or so, consistently. I called tech support and they said I had a defective unit and I needed to exchange it. Since it was out of warranty, they charged me $149 for a replacement (which is a lot nicer than buying new). The RMA center is just a few hours up the road, so I shipped the "defective" TiVo on Wednesday, they received it on Thursday and shipped me back a refurbished unit, which I received on Friday. I was pleasantly surprised by the quick turnaround, but when I opened it, it looked like the TiVo has been dropped as the front was all bashed in. I didn't even bother hooking it up. When I called to complain, they apologized and said they would replace it with a brand new unit. So I shipped off the broken refurb on Monday and received a brand new unit today. I hooked it up and it doesn't even get past the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen before it reboots. I let it go through the reboot cycle 8-10 times and then called tech support again and all their computers were down (and still were as of 15 minutes ago) so they couldn't help me. But the technician did say that I will probably have to ship this one back too as they are having "a lot of problems with the series 3 boxes" and tried to talk me into swapping it out for their standard HD unit. Lame.

What's going on? I do not have CableCARDs. I have tried disconnecting the coax (that goes to an OTA HD antenna), the HDMI, and the WiFi adapter, but it's still rebooting over and over again. I don't know what software is on this new unit (because it never fully boots), but the original one that worked fine for 14 months and then started rebooting every 10 minutes was running version 9.3a-01-2-648.


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## Davenport (Jul 24, 2008)

mrdazzo7 said:


> How does that work? Do you have to pay to ship it to them? What are you supposed to do without your Tivo in the interim? I guess get over it... If you could give me some details as to what the process is like for sending the unit in, I'd appreciate. I'm considering it myself...


Since my unit was out of warranty the first time, I did have to pay to ship it back, which cost about $12 at the UPS store. When I had to return the replacement unit, they supplied a mailing label so the shipping was free.


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## Beachbum55 (Jan 1, 2004)

Tivo technical support confirms all of the details and gives you an RMA number. You have to provide your own packaging to return the unit to Tivo. I had the original box, but I'll probably need to buy a larger box to protect it during shipment. Tivo provided me with a UPS shipping label and they said they would air freight the replacement unit back to me as soon as they receive my box.

Will keep my fingers crossed that the new unit works!

I've still got my old Pioneer Tivo unit in another room that burns DVDs, so I can burn some programs here and there and watch it on my DVD player in my living room.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm still debating on whethere I should A: Wait for the magical software fix with no ETA, B: Replace my hard drive, or C: ship the unit back to Tivo and get a replacement. 

A: Best option, but with no ETA, how long am I supposed to wait? I miss my HD!!

B: Can those who have done this comment--did replacing the drive solve the problem, even after updating to the software that (seems to have) caused the problem in the first place? How long has the unit been working correctly since the replacement? If it did work, which drive did you get?

C: Since I got a refurb less then a year ago, I'm thinking of sending it in to Tivo, but I've read several posts from people saying their replacements had the same problem, which makes me weary. To go through the hassle of even getting the unit out of my entertainment center is enough to turn me off to this idea, let alone lugging it to the post office and shipping it!

Any advice is great guys. I'm going on a solid month without my S3 and it freakin sucks. If replacing the drive would fix it i'd get one right now.


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## Duke (May 6, 2000)

Exchanging lots of S3's because of the problems that surfaced after 9.3a, in some cases multiple times per owner, must be costing TiVo a fortune in support expense......


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## deecee (Dec 20, 2007)

My 8 month-old TiVo HD began an endless cycle of reboots yesterday and there is now an RMA issued for a replacement (refurb) S3 which will cost $54.


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## memn0ch (Nov 2, 2003)

Davenport said:


> I purchased my S3 in May of last year. It's worked perfectly for 14 months and then last Monday (July 14th) it started rebooting every 10 minutes or so, consistently. I called tech support and they said I had a defective unit and I needed to exchange it. Since it was out of warranty, they charged me $149 for a replacement (which is a lot nicer than buying new). The RMA center is just a few hours up the road, so I shipped the "defective" TiVo on Wednesday, they received it on Thursday and shipped me back a refurbished unit, which I received on Friday. I was pleasantly surprised by the quick turnaround, but when I opened it, it looked like the TiVo has been dropped as the front was all bashed in. I didn't even bother hooking it up. When I called to complain, they apologized and said they would replace it with a brand new unit. So I shipped off the broken refurb on Monday and received a brand new unit today. I hooked it up and it doesn't even get past the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen before it reboots. I let it go through the reboot cycle 8-10 times and then called tech support again and all their computers were down (and still were as of 15 minutes ago) so they couldn't help me. But the technician did say that I will probably have to ship this one back too as they are having "a lot of problems with the series 3 boxes" and tried to talk me into swapping it out for their standard HD unit. Lame.
> 
> What's going on? I do not have CableCARDs. I have tried disconnecting the coax (that goes to an OTA HD antenna), the HDMI, and the WiFi adapter, but it's still rebooting over and over again. I don't know what software is on this new unit (because it never fully boots), but the original one that worked fine for 14 months and then started rebooting every 10 minutes was running version 9.3a-01-2-648.


I just purchased a Refurb THD and it seems to have the same reboot issue and I am doing the RMA. Getting really nervous about it though considering all of the issues that I am reading about here.

The RMA Center is about 30 miles away from me, and I was considering just driving there to see if I could exchange it on the spot. Wasn't sure if they would let me though. Does anyone have experience with this?

-Jason


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## Wensey (Aug 5, 2008)

netringer said:


> *Breakthrough!*
> 
> It finally occurred to me that I most often had the lock up problem while the receiver and TV were turned off, where I'd get the lockup and black screen on power up.
> 
> ...


I am convinced that the lockup I am seeing is related to turning the TV on. My failure is that it can't play video, whether saved or in the playback buffer. It never crashes while I've been watching, only when I've just turned it on. Sometimes it is crashed immediately when I turn it on, but the video that it is frozen on is the current screen, not 20 minutes earlier or anything.

I am not using HDMI. I am using component video, but I switched to S-Video and it still crashes.


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## Cajun Man (Jan 4, 2007)

For anyone interested, I experienced a similar problem with my S3 for almost a week. I tried various things, but nothing worked. In desperation, I performed a "Clear Thumb Ratings & Suggestions" operation. (I decided to try this after reviewing my thumb ratings, which went on for more 30 screen-pages.)

A couple of a days later, I have not -- so far anyway -- experienced a single reboot. Prior to the fix I was experiencing random reboots after watching 5 to 15 minutes of any show in my Now Playing list. My S3 would also reboot randomly when recording shows, or even when sitting idle in Standby mode.

As the old saying goes, "Your mileage may vary." Nonetheless, clearing your thumb ratings might be a simple fix to try if you are experiencing random reboots.


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