# Tivo's future with Comcast's extra charge



## paullew (Jan 10, 2012)

Yesterday after I upgrade my service with Comcast Xfinity X1 Starter triple play package, all my channels on Roamio (with Tivo CableCard) received authorization error. When I called in today to get it resolved I learned that Comast start charging extra $10/month for cablecard. The moment I agreed on this new contract, all channels are back - another form of ransomware IMO; worst; this one is legal.

So the total Tivo cost becomes $25 /month on Comcast. Before this they used to charge $1.50 /month for Cablecard. This new direction is not in favor of Tivo.

I have been using Tivo since 2000, I have always rely on Tivo's features for TV watching, but this dwindled a bit with the advent of fast Internet. Now my time is about 30% on TV, 70% on Internet.
Tivo has become less important.

If you had similar experience, how did you cope?


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## sharpfork (Nov 22, 2016)

paullew said:


> Yesterday after I upgrade my service with Comcast Xfinity X1 Starter triple play package, all my channels on Roamio (with Tivo CableCard) received authorization error. When I called in today to get it resolved I learned that Comast start charging extra $10/month for cablecard. The moment I agreed on this new contract, all channels are back - another form of ransomware IMO; worst; this one is legal.
> 
> So the total Tivo cost becomes $25 /month on Comcast. Before this they used to charge $1.50 /month for Cablecard. This new direction is not in favor of Tivo.
> 
> ...


I got my one and only cablecard from comcast for my Roamio for free per their website (after pointing this page to them):

What is a CableCARD?

Will I be charged to use a CableCARD?
The first CableCARD in a retail CableCARD device is free to Comcast customers. If a second CableCARD is needed for the same device (as is the case with certain older model TiVo devices), a charge will apply.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

paullew said:


> Yesterday after I upgrade my service with Comcast Xfinity X1 Starter triple play package, all my channels on Roamio (with Tivo CableCard) received authorization error. When I called in today to get it resolved I learned that Comast start charging extra $10/month for cablecard. The moment I agreed on this new contract, all channels are back - another form of ransomware IMO; worst; this one is legal.
> 
> So the total Tivo cost becomes $25 /month on Comcast. Before this they used to charge $1.50 /month for Cablecard. This new direction is not in favor of Tivo.
> 
> ...


I used to get a credit of a couple of dollars for using my own equipment with their cable card but Comcast removed that at some point in the past, nor sure exactly when. I also have the X1 triple play but they have not hit me up with a 10 charge for it yet.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i'm not aware of a $10 charge for a cable card, but i have heard about a $10 hd access fee some customers pay, usually those who also have comcast hd equipment on their account (or have at some point in the past).


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

paullew said:


> Yesterday after I upgrade my service with Comcast Xfinity X1 Starter triple play package, all my channels on Roamio (with Tivo CableCard) received authorization error. When I called in today to get it resolved I learned that Comast start charging extra $10/month for cablecard. The moment I agreed on this new contract, all channels are back - another form of ransomware IMO; worst; this one is legal.
> 
> So the total Tivo cost becomes $25 /month on Comcast. Before this they used to charge $1.50 /month for Cablecard. This new direction is not in favor of Tivo.
> 
> ...


I think you are confusing the additional digital outlet charge with a CableCARD charge. The ADO charge is $9.95 but you should be getting a $2.50 COE (Customer Owned Equipment) discount so $7.45. You are only going to get an ADO charge if you have any other Comcast equipment in your house. Otherwise the CableCARD for your TiVO is free for the primary outlet.

Is there a reason you want/need any other Comcast equipment (DVR, STB, etc)? We only have 1 Roamio Pro and then a Mini on the second TV in our son's game room.

Scott


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## paullew (Jan 10, 2012)

sharpfork said:


> I got my one and only cablecard from comcast for my Roamio for free per their website (after pointing this page to them):
> 
> What is a CableCARD?
> 
> ...


So I just called Comcast and asked for help, the agent from the billing department took that charge off. Guess not all people in Comcast knows exactly what to charge the customer. I am glad that I have posted the question here, you guys rocks!!


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I used to get a credit of a couple of dollars for using my own equipment with their cable card but Comcast removed that at some point in the past, nor sure exactly when.


Comcast changed a lot of billing stuff two months ago. My $2.50 credit for customer owned equipment disappeared, but the $9.95 charge for an additional outlet is now priced at $7.45. So, even-steven.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

DeltaOne said:


> Comcast changed a lot of billing stuff two months ago. My $2.50 credit for customer owned equipment disappeared, but the $9.95 charge for an additional outlet is now priced at $7.45. So, even-steven.


Hmm, I only see one flat fee for being part of X1 aside from taxes etc.


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## Millionaire2K (Jun 16, 2008)

Comcast tried charging me $10 per outlet when they claimed that a Cable Card did not count as 1 of the 4 free additional outlets my package includes. They upped my bill $40. SO I just went and got the price schedule that shows the CC is "included" for up to 4 additional TVs with my package. 

So after making a few calls to Comcast I finally got someone to admit they wrongly "corrected" my bill and I was NOT to be charged for the additional outlets. 

One idiot Comcast worker said I would save $40 a month if I just returned the 4 cable Cards and got 4 cable boxes at $0. 

I don't even think Comcast knows what it's charging customers.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The OP just lucked out by receiving non-standard billing over time. I've had the Digital Outlet (DO) fee for close to 10 years now.


NOTE: updated- I accidentially called this an HD fee, but its a DO fee, only for second cablecards.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

jrtroo said:


> The OP just lucked out by receiving non-standard billing over time. I've had the HD fee for close to 10 years now.


Most of us don't pay the HD fee.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

schatham said:


> Most of us don't pay the HD fee.


Yeah no HD fee here either even after they moved us to the new Accounting system.

Scott


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The various packages will include an X1 box as part of the base fee. If you decline the X1 and use the Tivo as your base and only model then you should get an 2.50 equipment credit and be charged a cable card rental fee.
If they don't know you did not take the X1 or you have the X1 in a closet they will charge you an additional outlet fee.

The HD fee is something they apply to their own boxes not to Tivos.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Millionaire2K said:


> SO I just went and got the price schedule that shows the CC is "included" for up to 4 additional TVs with my package.


That's interesting. I don't know if that means you're on a really really expensive package or what.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Millionaire2K said:


> I don't even think Comcast knows what it's charging customers.


They know. They just figure the number of people willing to navigate the bureaucracy to get it fixed or leave because of the fees is low. It is mostly TiVo users with more than one TiVo. There are PC users too, but they are even smaller group than TiVo users.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

this is not new. It's been around a long time. It used to be $1.50 per card. Then it changed to the first one was free and any after that are charged an "additional outlet fee" of $9.95


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

b_scott said:


> this is not new. It's been around a long time. It used to be $1.50 per card. Then it changed to the first one was free and any after that are charged an "additional outlet fee" of $9.95


It's always been the first one free on the primary outlet at least around here since 2007 when we got our first S3 OLED and then second CableCARD in same device was an additional fee that kept dropping until it was 80 cents finally. The good thing for us was that they only charged us the same low second CableCARD in same device fee for the 2 CableCARDS in our second S3 OLED at least until they updated the accounting system last year and the ADO fee came in (at which point I turned in the S3 OLED CableCARDs since we were only recording on the new Roamio Pro).

Scott


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## paullew (Jan 10, 2012)

Here is an update (from the thread creator):

Today I is the switch-over-day for "X1 Starter Triple play" (cost
$109.99 /month + $30 fee). so I plugged in the cable modem (for
Internet) without much trouble to get both Internet and phone working.

When I turned on the TV, all channels are unauthorized, again.
So I called Comcast, seems finally get the full picture:

The X1 Starter Triple Play will allow 1 set top box or 1 cablecard
for free - every addition cost $9.95 /month.

This is NOT what happened on my previous Comcast call who credited
back my cablecard monthly fee. So I agreed to return my set top box
and use the cablecard as my primary source to keep the total at:
$139.99 /month.

For some technical reason, the channels are still locked. Got to
wait until tomorrow to call again...


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## sleepdragon (May 22, 2010)

paullew said:


> Here is an update (from the thread creator):
> 
> Today I is the switch-over-day for "X1 Starter Triple play" (cost
> $109.99 /month + $30 fee). so I plugged in the cable modem (for
> ...


How are you racking up $30 in fees? I assume $10 is for voice modem rental?

Also, you will need to call the cablecard hotline and have them pair your cablecard to your tivo and make sure to ask for them to 1. make sure your account is properly coded for cablecard and 2. they have your device coded as tivopmhost


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

sleepdragon said:


> How are you racking up $30 in fees? I assume $10 is for voice modem rental?
> 
> Also, you will need to call the cablecard hotline and have them pair your cablecard to your tivo and make sure to ask for them to 1. make sure your account is properly coded for cablecard and 2. they have your device coded as tivopmhost


$7 local, $5 sports, $15 taxes. Easy to get to $30.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

X1 becomes the primary box so the cable card is $10 just like any other cable box.

Extra fees using X1 would be HD fee and dvr fee. X1 box rental is $20 plus $10 HD fee. Take $10 off for the X1 being a primary box, but then add $10 for a cable card or x1 satellite boxes.


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## leenga (Sep 21, 2007)

Since I've had Tivo in 9/2015 (first a Roamio the a Bolt) I've been charged the following fees with my Starter Double Play package:

Cablecard $1.50
HD Technology Fee $9.95
Customer Owned Equipment -2.50

So I'm reading on here that my cable card should have been free and I shouldn't have had an HD fee?? 

Really, so they've been overcharging me this whole time??

I just switched now to the X1 double play to get lower promo pricing which includes the X1 box with no additional fee.
Now they are charging me $9.95 for my cablecard and an additional outlet.
I'm going to try to return the X1 box and hope I can get the cablecard free and get the COE credit.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

leenga said:


> Since I've had Tivo (first a Roamio the a Bolt) I've been charged the following fees with my Starter Double Play package:
> 
> Cablecard $1.50
> HD Technology Fee $9.95
> ...


HD fee is a service fee in some markets and a equipment/technology fee in others. If you are in latter market, it shouldn't be charged if your *ONLY* equipment is CableCARD. If former, they may require you to have the fee to get HD channels. In some cases they claim it is service fee, but it is actually a technology fee. You can tell by telling them you don't have any HD capable TVs and to drop the HD service fee and see if you still get the HD channels, worse case, just add it back later.

With Comcast you usually get one "outlet" bundled with your service (ie no additional charge). This "outlet" includes equipment. If you choose CableCARD as your equipment, you'll get the -$2.50 COE refund and there won't be any additional charges.

However, if you accept some bundled STB from Comcast, that is usually your primary equipment and they'll charge you an additional outlet fee for any addional outlets. The "outlet" fee is usually $9.95. The "outlet" fee includes equipment, just like the bundled "outlet". Sames rules about -$2.50 COE.

The $1.50 is only charged if you have 2nd CableCARD in the same device, likes Series 3 units. It doesn't result in an outlet fee.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

It really does vary by market and even systems within a single market. I have 3 CableCARDs, the first one is free and the other 2 cost me $1.50 each. I have no Comcast equipment and I have no Additional Outlet or HD Technology fees. I have a $2.50 customer owned equipment credit which makes my total outlay for 3 CableCARDs just $0.50. I have the Starter XF Double Play package.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

keenanSR said:


> It really does vary by market and even systems within a single market. I have 3 CableCARDs, the first one is free and the other 2 cost me $1.50 each. I have no Comcast equipment and I have no Additional Outlet or HD Technology fees. I have a $2.50 customer owned equipment credit which makes my total outlay for 3 CableCARDs just $0.50. I have the Starter XF Double Play package.


this mirrors the equipment/technology/card fees in our market, until you add comcast hd equipment, which automatically generates the hd technology fee.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I always thought the HD fee was an upcharge correlating to the level of equipment you get from them not BYO equipment.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

keenanSR said:


> It really does vary by market and even systems within a single market.


Yeah. We tend to think of "Comcast" as a monolithic, (nearly) nationwide company but you have to remember that it was formed by gobbling up one local or regional cable operator after another, each of them with different characteristics. (I still remember growing up with a small local MSO called Battlefield Cablevision that, at some point after I went off to college, got acquired by Comcast.) Over the years, Comcast has done a lot to standardize operations across the various systems they've absorbed but various differences still exist from one region to another.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

keenanSR said:


> It really does vary by market and even systems within a single market. I have 3 CableCARDs, the first one is free and the other 2 cost me $1.50 each. I have no Comcast equipment and I have no Additional Outlet or HD Technology fees. I have a $2.50 customer owned equipment credit which makes my total outlay for 3 CableCARDs just $0.50. I have the Starter XF Double Play package.


And that was the same for us until they updated the billing system locally a year or so ago to what they apparently are using in "native" Comcast systems (we were an ex-Adelphia franchise). The 3 extra CableCards in our old S3's changed to the outlet charges instead of the $0.80 2nd CableCard in a device charge (that charge had dropped for us over the years from the $1.50 charge). Since we had moved to the Roamio earlier and were no longer recording on the S3's, I just took the easy route and turned in the 3 extra CableCards. I did go down to the local office to try and get the charges changed back but no luck (they had someone there from the Philadelphia office there helping with the transition and he indicated that's the way they'd always been charged for them in their office with this billing software).

Scott


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> And that was the same for us until they updated the billing system locally a year or so ago to what they apparently are using in "native" Comcast systems (we were an ex-Adelphia franchise). The 3 extra CableCards in our old S3's changed to the outlet charges instead of the $0.80 2nd CableCard in a device charge (that charge had dropped for us over the years from the $1.50 charge). Since we had moved to the Roamio earlier and were no longer recording on the S3's, I just took the easy route and turned in the 3 extra CableCards. I did go down to the local office to try and get the charges changed back but no luck (they had someone there from the Philadelphia office there helping with the transition and he indicated that's the way they'd always been charged for them in their office with this billing software).
> 
> Scott


A little over a year ago the Comcast rep told me the same thing, that if I were to make changes to my package I would likely incur those AO charges. I have re-upped the same package since then at an even better rate than before and still have no AO charges so I feel pretty lucky. Additionally, I'm in a position where I would just drop the TV portion of the service if they were to try and add $25-$30 to my bill which is only $109 as it is(Starter Double Play w/Performance Pro HSI).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

keenanSR said:


> A little over a year ago the Comcast rep told me the same thing, that if I were to make changes to my package I would likely incur those AO charges. I have re-upped the same package since then at an even better rate than before and still have no AO charges so I feel pretty lucky. Additionally, I'm in a position where I would just drop the TV portion of the service if they were to try and add $25-$30 to my bill which is only $109 as it is(Starter Double Play w/Performance Pro HSI).


Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what kind of connection speeds you are getting with Performance Pro in your area?

I have the plain vanilla Performance (@ a discounted $29.99 p.m.) and typically get 70/6mbps.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what kind of connection speeds you are getting with Performance Pro in your area?
> 
> I have the plain vanilla Performance (@ a discounted $29.99 p.m.) and typically get 70/6mbps.


Here in Nashville, I have Performance. It was boosted back in Nov. (for free) from 25/5 to 60/5. Typically tests at 67-72 Mbps down and 5-6 up. Regular price is close to $70/mo. I'm just finishing up a one-year promo deal and will switch to AT&T this week.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

chiguy50 said:


> Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what kind of connection speeds you are getting with Performance Pro in your area?
> 
> I have the plain vanilla Performance (@ a discounted $29.99 p.m.) and typically get 70/6mbps.












It was raised from 100/5 (actual 130/6) about 5 months ago to 150/5 (actual 175/6).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Here in Nashville, I have Performance. It was boosted back in Nov. (for free) from 25/5 to 60/5. Typically tests at 67-72 Mbps down and 5-6 up. Regular price is close to $70/mo. I'm just finishing up a one-year promo deal and will switch to AT&T this week.


Next month I will be entering my third year on that $29.99 p.m. promo deal. The last time I called Comcast (on an entirely different matter), the CSR noted unprompted by me that my 12-month HSI promo deal was about to expire and asked me whether I would like her to renew it for another 12 months. I thought that was pretty special given how widely Comcast's support has been disparaged.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> Next month I will be entering my third year on that $29.99 p.m. promo deal. The last time I called Comcast (on an entirely different matter), the CSR noted unprompted by me that my 12-month HSI promo deal was about to expire and asked me whether I would like her to renew it for another 12 months. I thought that was pretty special given how widely Comcast's support has been disparaged.


imho, they really are trying very hard to improve their customer service image, almost to a fault - i've filled out so many surveys, when i get a new one my eyes begin to cross.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> imho, they really are trying very hard to improve their customer service image, almost to a fault - i've filled out so many surveys, when i get a new one my eyes begin to cross.


Oh, yes, I agree with you on that count. I have dealt with Comcast on a number of levels on both the individual subscriber and the bulk-services side, and I noticed a concerted effort to upgrade customer service performance a number of years ago. I attribute the change to Rick Germano, who oversaw customer operations at the time, and I believe there has been marked improvement as a result.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Next month I will be entering my third year on that $29.99 p.m. promo deal. The last time I called Comcast (on an entirely different matter), the CSR noted unprompted by me that my 12-month HSI promo deal was about to expire and asked me whether I would like her to renew it for another 12 months. I thought that was pretty special given how widely Comcast's support has been disparaged.


Yeah, I had that a couple years back for maybe that price. They wouldn't renew it once the initial 12 months were up. But instead they offered me a bundle of Performance Internet + very basic TV (SD locals) + Showtime for $29.99 plus fees, which comes to just under $40. They did allow me to renew that once at the same price, a year ago, when I got all the way through to the final person to speak with after calling in to cancel. They may do the same thing this year but I'm gonna switch back to AT&T anyhow, at least for the next year.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

chiguy50 said:


> Oh, yes, I agree with you on that count. I have dealt with Comcast on a number of levels on both the individual subscriber and the bulk-services side, and I noticed a concerted effort to upgrade customer service performance a number of years ago. I attribute the change to Rick Germano, who oversaw customer operations at the time, and I believe there has been marked improvement as a result.


Yes, Comcast and TiVo have swapped support.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

sfhub said:


> Yes, Comcast and TiVo have swapped support.


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## leenga (Sep 21, 2007)

leenga said:


> Since I've had Tivo in 9/2015 (first a Roamio the a Bolt) I've been charged the following fees with my Starter Double Play package:
> 
> Cablecard $1.50
> HD Technology Fee $9.95
> ...


So I contacted Comcast on their forums (no response) and filed a complaint with the BBB. I detailed that I've been overcharged $11.45 a month for several years. I got a letter responding to the BBB complaint dated 4/3/18 stating that they credited $343.50 to my account. I'm shocked!!


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

leenga said:


> So I contacted Comcast on their forums (no response) and filed a complaint with the BBB. I detailed that I've been overcharged $11.45 a month for several years. I got a letter responding to the BBB complaint dated 4/3/18 stating that they credited $343.50 to my account. I'm shocked!!


Have they actually removed the charges on your latest bill?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

leenga said:


> So I contacted Comcast on their forums (no response) and filed a complaint with the BBB. I detailed that I've been overcharged $11.45 a month for several years. I got a letter responding to the BBB complaint dated 4/3/18 stating that they credited $343.50 to my account. I'm shocked!!


You need to share more. You have a whole bunch of comcast folks here that want to walk in your footsteps!


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

WOW, that certain was a BIG credit (even for Trillion $$ Comcast). For a while there a few years ago, different regions were charging different prices for certain things like cablecards. They have since reigned in everything and I *think* have become somewhat standard. Anytime you may want something that you think you are being screwed on, you should call and get to Retention by saying to the machine that you want to disconnect everything. The "Solutions Dept", as they are called, are the Gatekeepers of promos and problems. Still a crapshoot.

My $2.50 credit was lost for a couple of years a few years ago because I foolishly bought a couple of cable cards (5 bucks) from Ebay, and they tried to pair them and that is when I found out that the cable cards had to come from Comcast and when they paired my original card back, I lost my credit. They never "could" put it back, so I kept asking them for credit every 6 months. Finally when my promo package was renewed at some point, the credit came back. GO FIGURE...


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## leenga (Sep 21, 2007)

leswar said:


> Have they actually removed the charges on your latest bill?


Well I changed my planned to the X1 plan and when I was researching details that's how I came across the overbilling. So I'm not actually seeing those charges at all on the new plan. I did see that the credit posted.


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