# Engadget Review up



## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

Engadget's review is also mixed bag.



> Let's talk about that lag for a moment, since it's inescapable: it feels like the entire UI reloads every time you do anything. The primary culprit is the context-sensitive discovery bar, which disappears and reloads entirely from screen-to-screen; it's annoying to the point of uselessness.





> Overall, though, the new UI is a dramatic step forward, and once it runs fast enough we'll have no desire to look back. Which is why it's so maddening that the old UI is still just a click away -- TiVo's only redone what it calls the "high traffic areas" of the interface like TiVo Central and My Shows, while the Settings and the Season Pass manager are still the old apps.


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## pL86 (Oct 11, 2009)

This is perhaps the part of the review that gets to the heart of the matter:


> It's been three years since the TiVo HD first arrived and just about a year and a half since TiVo first started beta testing this interface, and after using the Premiere for a day, here's what we want to know: what the hell has TiVo been _doing_ all this time?


Good question. The answer seems to be: not much.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

pL86 said:


> This is perhaps the part of the review that gets to the heart of the matter:
> 
> Good question. The answer seems to be: not much.


Simple. 12 months to outsource the project to India to save money and then six months for the Indian engineers to turn in this joke of an update.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Engadget made a valid point questioning what Tivo has been doing for a year and a half developing this new interface. Tivo is still laggy and making this new box not something I am interested in. Heck, Tivo still doesn't have an 802.11n adapter. 

Come on Tivo, get with it already! We are in the 21st Century aren't we?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

One thing bkdtv said in his review was that the flash chip they used was announced in January 2009, but took the better part of the year for support to mature. This may have delayed them or they may have been trying to write code around how they thought the chip would work. I have no idea, but it does make you wonder if the time could have been better spent.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

This whole thing is a REAL disappointment.

It IS a VERY valid question... TiVo what HAVE you been doing? Can't even finish the UI? Pathetic. Three years since the S3 and what?

Internet, S3 UI, 3rd party applications for transfers, streaming, Premiere UI, 3rd tuner, new DirecTiVo -- Just a long list of unfinished business, incomplete products.

I blame the CEO. Old hag from the "telecomm" industry. Can't innovate so find "backdoors" to survive. Lawsuits, trying to cozy up to cable. LAZY. I never thought I'd ever see someone lazier than cable ---- well, it's TiVo

Let's see...
Slow, behind the times, not innovative, competition moving faster, loosing subscribers, crappy unfinished products...

Fire the CEO. Fire him now. Are you listening Board of Directors? Where did ALL that research money go?????? Save the company, bring in a mediocre CEO. You only have to do what everyone else is doing but better. NOT TOUGH, at all.

I was a huge fan/defender of TiVo up to a month ago; now - Forget it.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

deandashl said:


> I was a huge fan/defender of TiVo up to a month ago; now - Forget it.


I am starting to agree as well.

It's obvious Tivo can't survive if they keep doing what they are doing. Hopefully there will be another DVR company that can take over in the marketplace and actually bring us technology that we want.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Resist said:


> I am starting to agree as well.
> 
> It's obvious Tivo can't survive if they keep doing what they are doing. Hopefully there will be another DVR company that can take over in the marketplace and actually bring us technology that we want.


Good luck with that! 

I watched a short CNET hands-on review of a Moxi DVR tonight. My overall impression was that the software UI sucked and the remote control looked like something from the 1990s! I still haven't seen any DVRs out there that come close to the ease of use and sheer grace of a TiVo DVR. TiVo will have to do a hell of a lot worse than this for me to go elsewhere.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Well I rented the Moxi from Charter for about a year and really liked it. Had it not been for it overheating and ultimately failing, I would have most likely bought one by now.

And while I agree Tivo is easier to use, they need to address the lag issues and bugs to their software that have been around for years now. Also, if they are going to release new hardware then they need to make something really advanced that is worth buying!


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## flaminiom (Dec 27, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> Good luck with that!
> 
> I watched a short CNET hands-on review of a Moxi DVR tonight. My overall impression was that the software UI sucked and the remote control looked like something from the 1990s! I still haven't seen any DVRs out there that come close to the ease of use and sheer grace of a TiVo DVR. TiVo will have to do a hell of a lot worse than this for me to go elsewhere.


I agree. The issue though I think is has Tivo done enough to warrant an upgrade from Tivo HD right now. Premiere is certainly the future of Tivo, the question is when the future will get here, and would my money be better off in my pocket until then.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

flaminiom said:


> I agree. The issue though I think is has Tivo done enough to warrant an upgrade from Tivo HD right now. Premiere is certainly the future of Tivo, the question is when the future will get here, and would my money be better off in my pocket until then.


The premiere is aimed at trying to get new customers, not upgrade existing ones.
Moxi is the DVR clearly marketed for S3 users to upgrade to.


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

Resist said:


> Engadget made a valid point questioning what Tivo has been doing for a year and a half developing this new interface. Tivo is still laggy and making this new box not something I am interested in. Heck, Tivo still doesn't have an 802.11n adapter.
> 
> Come on Tivo, get with it already! We are in the 21st Century aren't we?


Agreed. This review settles my interest-there is none now.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> The premiere is aimed at trying to get new customers, not upgrade existing ones.
> Moxi is the DVR clearly marketed for S3 users to upgrade to.


Most of what the Moxi offers is not compelling for me to upgrade my S3 units to it. The TiVo upgrade offers are compelling enough for me to upgrade to Premiere. But the Moxi doesn't have the features I want that I use regularly with TiVo. Plus I have no desire to be reliant on only two or three hard drives for all my recordings. Especially with no way to off load all my recordings to a PC like I currently can with TiVo.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> Good luck with that!
> 
> I watched a short CNET hands-on review of a Moxi DVR tonight. My overall impression was that the software UI sucked and the remote control looked like something from the 1990s! I still haven't seen any DVRs out there that come close to the ease of use and sheer grace of a TiVo DVR. TiVo will have to do a hell of a lot worse than this for me to go elsewhere.


The Moxi software is pretty good. It is faster than the reviews of the Tivo Premiere Yes, the remote control needs a bit of working. But it is a good product.. have features that Tivo does not have.

But you can keep your blinders and stay with Tivo. It is all good!


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Resist said:


> Well I rented the Moxi from Charter for about a year and really liked it. Had it not been for it overheating and ultimately failing, I would have most likely bought one by now.
> 
> And while I agree Tivo is easier to use, they need to address the lag issues and bugs to their software that have been around for years now. Also, if they are going to release new hardware then they need to make something really advanced that is worth buying!


The Moxi Charter one is different from the Retail one


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

fatlard said:


> The Moxi software is pretty good. It is faster than the reviews of the Tivo Premiere Yes, the remote control needs a bit of working. But it is a good product.. have features that Tivo does not have.
> 
> But you can keep your blinders and stay with Tivo. It is all good!


And TiVo has features that Moxi doesn't have. I watched a demo of the Moxi interface. For me, it sucks. Doesn't appeal at all. Speed is not the issue. Functionality and operation does and in this respect, TiVo blows away Moxi.

You should adjust your own blinders or if that's too difficult for you, just hop off to Moxi and have fun.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TrueTurbo said:


> just hop off to Moxi and have fun.


where is the fun in that


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> But you can keep your blinders and stay with Tivo. It is all good!


If it's all good, why do you keep shining your little Moxi laser pointer in people's eyes? You know you're probably doing more harm to the Moxi name than good with your baiting and harassment in a TiVo forum, don't you?


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## hungarianhc (May 31, 2007)

This sucks. I'm so bummed. I was worried when they announced that it was based on flash... now i canceled my pre-order now that the reviews ALL suck. This isn't a mixed bag. None of the reviews loved it. BLEH. What a crappy day to be a TiVo fanboy...


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> If it's all good, why do you keep shining your little Moxi laser pointer in people's eyes? You know you're probably doing more harm to the Moxi name than good with your baiting and harassment in a TiVo forum, don't you?


If a person does not want to buy a Moxi because of me, then really did not want a Moxi in the first place. You give me way too much credit for how much power I have.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> If a person does not want to buy a Moxi because of me, then really did not want a Moxi in the first place. You give me way too much credit for how much power I have.


Meh. Just letting you know that you may not be accomplishing your goals.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> Meh. Just letting you know that you may not be accomplishing your goals.


orangeboy,

My goals are really simple. It is to let people know there are options out there. A couple of years ago there was Tivo and then there was everybody else. Tivo was clearly the best DVR out there. I own several and recommended/installed several for friends. But times are changing, Tivo is not the best thing out there anymore.

If anyone takes a look at Moxi and then buy an Tivo thats fine. Mission accomplished. I only bought a Moxi after reading about it here. ironic isn't it.


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## hungarianhc (May 31, 2007)

fatlard said:


> If anyone takes a look at Moxi and then buy an Tivo thats fine. Mission accomplished. I only bought a Moxi after reading about it here. ironic isn't it.


I've been thinking about a Moxi... Held back for two reasons...
1) the initial reviews weren't super positive
2) the hardware might be due for a refresh

I'd like to see a new set of reviews / impressions, as I see that Moxi has released some software updates. I'm curious how those improve things.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

hungarianhc said:


> I've been thinking about a Moxi... Held back for two reasons...
> 1) the initial reviews weren't super positive
> 2) the hardware might be due for a refresh
> 
> I'd like to see a new set of reviews / impressions, as I see that Moxi has released some software updates. I'm curious how those improve things.


Yeah, the initial reviews were not super positive. Unforunately that is about a year old

These are more recent

Moxi reviewed at 18 minute mark.




Moxi described as solid

http://www.avguide.com/review/moxi-hd-dvr-moxi-mate-multi-room-add-the-perfect-vision-85

http://www.buying-hdtv.com/TB/?P=3291

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...d-dvr-two/4505-6474_7-33508033.html?tag=rtcol

As for a hardware refresh, they released their 3 tuner unit back in November with upgrade memory and release live streaming to the Moxi Mates. I won't expect a hardware refresh for a while.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> orangeboy,
> 
> My goals are really simple. It is to let people know there are options out there. A couple of years ago there was Tivo and then there was everybody else. Tivo was clearly the best DVR out there. I own several and recommended/installed several for friends. But times are changing, Tivo is not the best thing out there anymore.
> 
> If anyone takes a look at Moxi and then buy an Tivo thats fine. Mission accomplished. I only bought a Moxi after reading about it here. ironic isn't it.


By your reasoning, do you go to a Ford dealership to find out about the Dodge Challenger? Do you expect to find pamphlets about the Challenger there at the Ford dealership?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> By your reasoning, do you go to a Ford dealership to find out about the Dodge Challenger? Do you expect to find pamphlets about the Challenger there at the Ford dealership?


Why are you afraid of me?


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## Unseen Llama (Nov 29, 2005)

fatlard said:


> Why are you afraid of me?


Starting to agree with orangeboy.

You like your Moxi, we get it. We really do. But the url is tivocommunity, not moxicommunity. You've made your postings referring to Moxi. Now let it go.


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## hungarianhc (May 31, 2007)

Unseen Llama said:


> Starting to agree with orangeboy.
> 
> You like your Moxi, we get it. We really do. But the url is tivocommunity, not moxicommunity. You've made your postings referring to Moxi. Now let it go.


I agree too - I enjoy the occasional post about Moxi. Heck, if it offers certain features over TiVo I'd love to have a discussion about them here (a thread dedicated to that), but if you're going to pop up in every thread and try to convert people, that will just get obnoxious.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

hungarianhc said:


> I agree too - I enjoy the occasional post about Moxi. Heck, if it offers certain features over TiVo I'd love to have a discussion about them here (a thread dedicated to that), but if you're going to pop up in every thread and try to convert people, that will just get obnoxious.


Please re-read the thread. I did not bring up the Moxi. Someone else did.


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## hungarianhc (May 31, 2007)

fatlard said:


> Please re-read the thread. I did not bring up the Moxi. Someone else did.


Please re-read my post. I have no problem w/ people bringing up Moxi. In fact, I find it good to compare the two. It just gets obnoxious when someone is in here just badgering us all day.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> By your reasoning, do you go to a Ford dealership to find out about the Dodge Challenger? Do you expect to find pamphlets about the Challenger there at the Ford dealership?





fatlard said:


> Why are you afraid of me?


In what part of what I asked do you read fear? I'm actually quite puzzled by this...


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

hungarianhc said:


> Please re-read my post. I have no problem w/ people bringing up Moxi. In fact, I find it good to compare the two. It just gets obnoxious when someone is in here just badgering us all day.


So if someone mentions Moxi it is okay.

If I disagree with that they saying then I am badgering them?

You do know replying to me only bumps this thread up to the top right?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

hungarianhc said:


> This sucks. I'm so bummed. I was worried when they announced that it was based on flash... now i canceled my pre-order now that the reviews ALL suck. This isn't a mixed bag. None of the reviews loved it. BLEH. What a crappy day to be a TiVo fanboy...


A real TiVo fanboy doesn't get dissuaded by early reviews using pre-release software and realizes that software updates over the next few months will fix a lot of the issues. You won't get the updates if you don't have the hardware.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

TrueTurbo said:


> A realYou won't get the updates if you don't have the hardware.


:up:


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## dewd2 (Feb 22, 2010)

Well I'm not a 'real' TIVO fanboy, I ordered Premiers because I currently have the FIOS DVRs. I used to have Tivo on D* years ago and I really liked it, but I also like the D* DVR (with the beta 'cutting edge' software each week).

I did compare the TIVO and the MOXI. The TIVO won since I don't have to run a 'super computer' in my basement to get Netflix. I tried that before with TVersity and I found my dual core AMD was not up to the task. I would rather keep it simple (WAF).


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## hungarianhc (May 31, 2007)

TrueTurbo said:


> A real TiVo fanboy doesn't get dissuaded by early reviews using pre-release software and realizes that software updates over the next few months will fix a lot of the issues. You won't get the updates if you don't have the hardware.


I know i know!!! I am being a bad fanboy today... But on the flipside, a REAL fanboy knows that over the years, while they've added some features, they really don't update their software THAT often... If TiVo were like Google, maybe i'd have a bit more confidence! In any case, I'm not selling my HD... and the second that an update comes back where people say, "Wow my TiVo Premiere is snappier than my TiVo HD! THEN IM IN!"


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

TrueTurbo said:


> A real TiVo fanboy doesn't get dissuaded by early reviews using pre-release software and realizes that software updates over the next few months will fix a lot of the issues.


A real TiVo fanboy wants TiVo to make money. First impressions matter. A product with a frustratingly slow UI is a product that won't sell. Since prospective buyers rarely revisit their initial "no" decision, the fact that the UI may be fixed some unknown number of months from now is meaningless.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

tivogurl said:


> A real TiVo fanboy wants TiVo to make money. First impressions matter. A product with a frustratingly slow UI is a product that won't sell. Since prospective buyers rarely revisit their initial "no" decision, the fact that the UI may be fixed some unknown number of months from now is meaningless.


True, however the target market is new customers. Compared to just about every cable DVR, the new UI is snappy, so the vast majority of the potential customer base will see it as an improvement over what they already have.

Tivo is going to make more money by bringing in new customers, not just appeasing the die-hard fan base.

I'm disappointed that the UI isn't more finished and/or more optimized, but all that's going to matter is "Can Best Buy sell Tivo to the masses?"


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

tivogurl said:


> A real TiVo fanboy wants TiVo to make money. First impressions matter. A product with a frustratingly slow UI is a product that won't sell. Since prospective buyers rarely revisit their initial "no" decision, the fact that the UI may be fixed some unknown number of months from now is meaningless.


TiVo will make money fine with the Premiere in the end. The UI isn't frustratingly slow. It's not fast either, but from what I've seen so far, it's fine. People, get real! It's a friggin $300 DVR, not a $2,000 gaming PC. If you expect a millisecond response to everything you do, you have unrealistic expectations. My TiVo HD isn't Speedy Gonzales either. It doesn't bother me. I don't spend hours walking through TiVo menus. I dip in there when I need them and I care about functionality, not speed.

Anyway, you are clearly in the pessimistic, disappointed, hard to please camp. The TiVo Premiere doesn't rock your boat at the moment. Keep checking back and maybe, one day, after a few software updates, it will.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> It's a friggin $300 DVR, not a $2,000 gaming PC. If you expect a millisecond response to everything you do, you have unrealistic expectations.


The flaw in your logic is that you assume the hardware can't be fixed via software, which it can. Our XBox and Wii cost less than our Tivo's, yet they respond in millisecond speeds. So there is no reason why Tivo can't do the same, with the current hardware.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Resist said:


> The flaw in your logic is that you assume the hardware can't be fixed via software, which it can. Our XBox and Wii cost less than our Tivo's, yet they respond in millisecond speeds. So there is no reason why Tivo can't do the same, with the current hardware.


What!? Our xBoxes and Wiis aren't continually buffering 2 TV channels to disk whilst playing back video on the active tuner and running an interrupt driven operating system to provide a DVR interface with background download services! Get real.


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## cruiserandmax (Apr 7, 2008)

Resist said:


> The flaw in your logic is that you assume the hardware can't be fixed via software, which it can. Our XBox and Wii cost less than our Tivo's, yet they respond in millisecond speeds.


How can RAM be upgraded via software? The Wii has separate clients for everything- each causing you to wait while they load. You can't switch between Netflix, and a game without waiting 10 seconds, much less a millisecond. Why? Because it has nowhere near any amount of memory to cache everything for an instantaneous response- same thing with the Tivo Premiere! Between netflix, blockbuster, your cable CO, etc- Tivo is trying to provide an interface to way too much crap without caching all of it, so the UI experience is going to suck period, no hope of upgrade, end of story. I was sooo hoping Tivo would get the Premiere right- but they completely blew it.

How mcuh RAM does your Xbox have? What CPU does it use? That's right- the Premiere is a GIGANTIC WASTE of money- even with the $200 lifetime subscription deal- heck, why do you think they're even offering the $200 lifetime service on it!

I'm a Series 2 lifetime owner, so I'll gladly plunk down for an HD Tivo upgrade deal as soon as they offer a device that actually betters my Comcast DVR- which can't be THAT hard!? Come on Tivo!!!


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

cruiserandmax said:


> ...Tivo is trying to provide an interface to way too much crap...


This is the core problem with the new boxes.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

Hey, I've gotta HD XL and love it. I would NEVER say MOXI is the answer.

Yes, TiVo is STILL the best DVR. But, the key here is...

What has TiVo been doing for 1 1/2 to 3 years?

How can TiVo release new hardware but not have finished the basic UI menu screens? It's almost like they didn't really start until last month. What's been going on all these years? There was no beta UI ready to go? Is there only one part-time programmer over there? 

No wonder the S3's never got a UI upgrade, they can't even start on the new S4 until it's basically already out. 

It would have only taken five simple (and already done, by others) things to make the Premiere a total HIT...

1. Third tuner(on XL). (Done by Moxi AND Motorola already)
2. Throw in the new remote with built in Bluetooth (on XL, at least)
3. Add 802.11n wireless built-in (on XL), optional dongle, on Premiere.
4. Create a streaming Extender (done by Moxi) with built-in wireless N.
5. Finish the basic UI, get the second core running (at least basic) and start a couple "widgets" like Weather, Traffic and stock tickers(through Yahoo or Google); with MORE coming soon. 

Keep the Premiere, mostly as is, for basic single TV folks. Rename the XL something like "XL Server" or "PowerBox" with mentioned upgrades from above.

A central "PowerBox" with three tuners that records, stores and streams content around the entire house, to Extenders, using a wireless N network. Even your laptop, desktop, a new TiVo portable TV with built-in battery you can carry around the house and in the backyard, There is nothing NEW here, just putting it together.

Imagine only ONE connection to cable, only ONE cablecard, only one TV cable charge, no extra STB's or STB charges. You stream ALL content wireless (or ethernet) to the Extenders ANYWHERE in the house with an electric plug-in. With the Extenders you can also do all basic "PowerBox" functionality. 

Tell me everyone here wouldn't jump on that. And TiVo could have done all that. I'm not saying they don't expand/upgrade the software, but come on - none of this is out of line. I bet much of this WAS done in the lab.

Big HIT!


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

cruiserandmax said:


> How can RAM be upgraded via software? The Wii has separate clients for everything- each causing you to wait while they load. You can't switch between Netflix, and a game without waiting 10 seconds, much less a millisecond. Why? Because it has nowhere near any amount of memory to cache everything for an instantaneous response- same thing with the Tivo Premiere! Between netflix, blockbuster, your cable CO, etc- Tivo is trying to provide an interface to way too much crap without caching all of it, so the UI experience is going to suck period, no hope of upgrade, end of story. I was sooo hoping Tivo would get the Premiere right- but they completely blew it.
> 
> How mcuh RAM does your Xbox have? What CPU does it use? That's right- the Premiere is a GIGANTIC WASTE of money- even with the $200 lifetime subscription deal- heck, why do you think they're even offering the $200 lifetime service on it!
> 
> I'm a Series 2 lifetime owner, so I'll gladly plunk down for an HD Tivo upgrade deal as soon as they offer a device that actually betters my Comcast DVR- which can't be THAT hard!? Come on Tivo!!!


You are sad and delusional if you think your Comcast DVR is better than a TiVo Premiere! Words fail me.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

deandashl said:


> ...etc...etc...
> 
> Tell me everyone here wouldn't jump on that. And TiVo could have done all that. I'm not saying they don't expand/upgrade the software, but come on - none of this is out of line. I bet much of this WAS done in the lab.
> 
> Big HIT!


Yeah and they could have built in a blu ray player, and, and, oooo, how about a HD radio tuner, and, and a HDMI switch. None of this is out of line too. 

If you don't like what they've done, don't buy it. It truly is incredible how many system engineers and software developers we have in this forum who think they can design, build and manufacture a better DVR than TiVo for the same price.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> Yeah and they could have built in a blu ray player, and, and, oooo, how about a HD radio tuner, and, and a HDMI switch. None of this is out of line too.
> 
> If you don't like what they've done, don't buy it. It truly is incredible how many system engineers and software developers we have in this forum who think they can design, build and manufacture a better DVR than TiVo for the same price.


You can try to exaggerate, but it's only asking for what Moxi largely did almost two years ago - plus wireless N.


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## stmckin (Sep 23, 2006)

this engadget review is eye opening.... so the S3 stays for now.... 

the real thing now is: Moxi, Media Center, etc. are now real options to Tivo from the $ and performance standpoint... so it puts even hardcore Tivo customers like myself at risk 

in retail competition, failure to exceed or even meet customer expectation is devastating


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

Moxi's lack of OTA will keep them from bein a major contender


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cruiserandmax said:


> How can RAM be upgraded via software? The Wii has separate clients for everything- each causing you to wait while they load. You can't switch between Netflix, and a game without waiting 10 seconds, much less a millisecond. Why? Because it has nowhere near any amount of memory to cache everything for an instantaneous response- same thing with the Tivo Premiere! Between netflix, blockbuster, your cable CO, etc- Tivo is trying to provide an interface to way too much crap without caching all of it, so the UI experience is going to suck period, no hope of upgrade, end of story. I was sooo hoping Tivo would get the Premiere right- but they completely blew it.
> 
> How mcuh RAM does your Xbox have? What CPU does it use? That's right- the Premiere is a GIGANTIC WASTE of money- even with the $200 lifetime subscription deal- heck, why do you think they're even offering the $200 lifetime service on it!
> 
> I'm a Series 2 lifetime owner, so I'll gladly plunk down for an HD Tivo upgrade deal as soon as they offer a device that actually betters my Comcast DVR- which can't be THAT hard!? Come on Tivo!!!


Do you have any stock tips? It sound slike you can see the future.

You have no idea what the future holds for the Premiere. If anything the reviews have solidified that the Premiere has enormous future potential. If I thought the Premire was a waste of money I would not have ordered eight. On the contrary is an excellent value. Especially since I'm allowed to keep the lifetime service on my exisiting units and sell them or give them to someone else.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

cruiserandmax said:


> How can RAM be upgraded via software? The Wii has separate clients for everything- each causing you to wait while they load. You can't switch between Netflix, and a game without waiting 10 seconds, much less a millisecond. Why? Because it has nowhere near any amount of memory to cache everything for an instantaneous response- same thing with the Tivo Premiere! Between netflix, blockbuster, your cable CO, etc- Tivo is trying to provide an interface to way too much crap without caching all of it, so the UI experience is going to suck period, no hope of upgrade, end of story. I was sooo hoping Tivo would get the Premiere right- but they completely blew it.
> 
> How mcuh RAM does your Xbox have? What CPU does it use? That's right- the Premiere is a GIGANTIC WASTE of money- even with the $200 lifetime subscription deal- heck, why do you think they're even offering the $200 lifetime service on it!
> 
> I'm a Series 2 lifetime owner, so I'll gladly plunk down for an HD Tivo upgrade deal as soon as they offer a device that actually betters my Comcast DVR- which can't be THAT hard!? Come on Tivo!!!


You should educate yourself with the facts before casting aspersions on the Premiere's RAM capabilities. From bkdtv's excellent spec writeup:



> The TiVo Premiere features a new 64-bit DDR2 memory controller that provides 6400 MB/s of memory bandwidth. Thats twice the amount of most cable and satellite DVRs based on single-chip solutions, and a 35-50% improvement over past dual-chip designs like the TiVo Series3, DirecTV HR20, and Dish Network ViP722. TiVo also equipped the Premiere with 512MB of DDR2-800 memorytwice that of the latest cable and satellite DVRs, and four times the amount of most DVRs in cable homes.
> 
> After subtracting the memory reserved for the decoders and other hardware, the Premiere has roughly 384MB RAM available for the embedded Linux OS, TiVo software, and future third-party applications. Contrast that to the 24MB available on the TiVo Series2 and 128MB on the TiVo HD. Most cable DVRs are equipped with 128MB, but only 60-90MB remains available for the OS and software after subtracting the reserved memory, limiting possibilities for future enhancement.





aaronwt said:


> Do you have any stock tips? It sound slike you can see the future.
> 
> You have no idea what the future holds for the Premiere. If anything the reviews have solidified that the Premiere has enormous future potential. If I thought the Premire was a waste of money I would not have ordered eight. On the contrary is an excellent value. Especially since I'm allowed to keep the lifetime service on my exisiting units and sell them or give them to someone else.


To be fair, a(n informed) consumer should make their decisions about a purchase with what is available at the time of purchase. After reading bkdtv's pdf, I believe at this time the Premiere is a VERY capable machine, standing head and shoulders above any _DVR_ available, and I am comfortable with my decision to purchase two of them at the discounted Upgrade Program price.

If others want to wait for a completed HDUI, I can't fault them for that. If it's a matter of lacking hardware, that's where I will have to disagree...


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## stmckin (Sep 23, 2006)

Mike-Mike said:


> Moxi's lack of OTA will keep them from bein a major contender


won't matter to the masses... everybody will be DLC focused cause that's the brainwash tsunami that's coming.... even we here are mostly talking DLC...

for me, given that $500+ investment... it's no problem to integrate everything I want with very high perfromance, a great interface, and whatever remote I want in Media Center... so it's likely that my 8 year Tivo career is at an end


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Memory is cheap. 512MB is very short-sighted when trying to build a platform for the future. Even more rediculous when there are reports that the images must are reloaded to save on memory.

The lack of True streaming is a huge limitation on MRV.
I understand that the HD/S3 may not have had the power but to have missed this feature is pretty good evidence of Ivory Tower syndrome.

It would be helpful if TiVo could at least promise to enable this functionality so potential customers could tell if they *got it* 

- Rich


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> You should educate yourself with the facts before casting aspersions on the Premiere's RAM capabilities. From bkdtv's excellent spec writeup:
> 
> To be fair, a(n informed) consumer should make their decisions about a purchase with what is available at the time of purchase. After reading bkdtv's pdf, I believe at this time the Premiere is a VERY capable machine, standing head and shoulders above any _DVR_ available, and I am comfortable with my decision to purchase two of them at the discounted Upgrade Program price.
> 
> If others want to wait for a completed HDUI, I can't fault them for that. If it's a matter of lacking hardware, that's where I will have to disagree...


The lack of RAM comments come the reviewers, who say it comes from Tivo themselves. You didn't mention how much RAM the new Flash interface and new HD menus take up. Plus Tivo wants to save room for apps. in the future. How much RAM will each one need? No one can say if the box is powerful enough or not. All we can say is that the box appears to be underpowered using the current software.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> Moxi's lack of OTA will keep them from bein a major contender


Tivo Premiere's lack of a third tuner will keep me from coming back to Tivo.


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

fatlard said:


> Tivo Premiere's lack of a third tuner will keep me from coming back to Tivo.


Moxi's lack of off-loading ability will continue to boost Tivo's merits.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

stmckin said:


> won't matter to the masses... everybody will be DLC focused cause that's the brainwash tsunami that's coming.... even we here are mostly talking DLC...
> 
> for me, given that $500+ investment... it's no problem to integrate everything I want with very high perfromance, a great interface, and whatever remote I want in Media Center... so it's likely that my 8 year Tivo career is at an end


forgive my noob-ness, but what is DLC?

and I can pretty much guarantee that the masses have no idea what a Moxi is, and they do not want to build a media center... the masses will stick with the cheapest option which is probably crappy cable dvr


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

deandashl said:


> You can try to exaggerate, but it's only asking for what Moxi largely did almost two years ago - plus wireless N.


Well then. Problem solved. If this list of features is what some people are looking for, they can buy a Moxi. 

Why should TiVo morph into a Moxi. Personally, I like TiVo for what it is and I don't like or want a Moxi. Why is it so hard for people to understand. You either like what TiVo are doing and you stick with the brand or you go elsewhere. I don't buy a Ford car than spend all my time *****ing about how it isn't a Lexus! If I wanted a Lexus, I'd buy one.


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## Follow Who? (Jan 3, 2005)

I can't believe the TV guide and show banner are still SD and are the same as the S3. Wow. Just wow. 

All I wanted was a guide that takes advantage of HD resolution and gives us more guide data. I've bought every TiVo that came out since the original Philips box and even the $1000 HD DirecTV TiVo. I just canceled my order for two Premiere XL's.

Only the top few menus are in HD?!?!?

Only one core is used because they can't make it stable on two yet!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

It looks like this thing is not even beta quality yet.

C' mon TiVo.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Mike-Mike said:


> forgive my noob-ness, but what is DLC?


Downloadable content. It's a gaming acronym - a lot of games ship nowadays with extra content that original owners can download for free or for a fee.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

Maybe, just maybe, TiVo (and Best Buy included) are going after new users and new subs. This new box, no matter what the advances are from the S3, will likely still be the best DVR out there. Certainly, according to bkdtv, the hardware looks to be above and beyond any other DVR out there. Looking at the box as a DVR only, I do not think anything else compares - except maybe the S3 (which, for most, is considered a better box than the Moxi). Yes, they are weak on the software side - if only you are looking at how 'advanced' it is from the S3. And maybe it is laggy - but do really even know that for sure yet?


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## Nonyaz (Mar 26, 2010)

I feels like TiVo's engineering team consists of one guy, perhaps working part time. Surly it didn't take a team of people 3 years to get to this point?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Nonyaz said:


> I feels like TiVo's engineering team consists of one guy, perhaps working part time. Surly it didn't take a team of people 3 years to get to this point?


Could be.. However, I think they focused a lot of effort (including people) to data mine the viewing habits of Tivo Users.

Remember Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction. Tivo knew many people rewound that scene.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

Nonyaz said:


> I feels like TiVo's engineering team consists of one guy, perhaps working part time. Surly it didn't take a team of people 3 years to get to this point?


They must have only one part-time guy. Bob. Bob works three hours a week on TiVo UI's.

My HD XL still has menu's in 480i. They couldn't upvert them to 720p? No wonder. TiVo is JUST getting to writing new menu screens for the Premiere a couple weeks before release. I gotta say, that's pretty scary. What have they been doing? I thought they were DEEP into a new UI. Now it looks like they started it last week.

Sad.

But at least they got TrueTurbo running around the forum all day and night trying to badger people into silence. Telling them not to buy it if they don't like it. That'll work. That'll solve the Premiere's problems. That'll get the new UI grid guide programmed like it SHOULD have been months ago.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Since Tivo is such a slow mover with regards to fixing software issues that have been around for years, maybe they need a hacker event to fix things. Seems like people are able to hack into and correct the iPhone short comings, so why not with Tivo?

I want to upgrade but only when Tivo puts something out that is worth upgrading to. Nickel and dime baby steps aren't going to cut it in the consumer tech industry. Tivo needs to release something that is a giant leap forward. At the rate they are moving we won't see anything mind blowing for another 10 years.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

deandashl said:


> They must have only one part-time guy. Bob. Bob works three hours a week on TiVo UI's.
> 
> My HD XL still has menu's in 480i. They couldn't upvert them to 720p? No wonder. TiVo is JUST getting to writing new menu screens for the Premiere a couple weeks before release. I gotta say, that's pretty scary. What have they been doing? I thought they were DEEP into a new UI. Now it looks like they started it last week.
> 
> ...


Yay, I'm making an impression! My goal is to wear down you detractors until everything is shiny again.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

I wonder why they can't enable the second CPU. Linux works just fine on other multi-core platforms, dual-core MIPS shouldn't crash anything.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

tivogurl said:


> I wonder why they can't enable the second CPU. Linux works just fine on other multi-core platforms, dual-core MIPS shouldn't crash anything.


It's a second CPU core rather than a second CPU. There is a difference. I read in another post that it may not be that the second core is inactive, but rather that the software hasn't been 'written' to take advantage of it yet. If they've seen signs of instability, it's most likely that they're having problems with asynchronous processing in their multi-threaded implementation. They'll sort it out eventually, I expect.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

TrueTurbo said:


> It's a second CPU core rather than a second CPU. There is a difference. I read in another post that it may not be that the second core is inactive, but rather that the software hasn't been 'written' to take advantage of it yet. If they've seen signs of instability, it's most likely that they're having problems with asynchronous processing in their multi-threaded implementation. They'll sort it out eventually, I expect.


True. Also, who knows of the Flash stuff is thread safe.
If not, it could be a long wait.

- Rich


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