# Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS



## Tivoitis

I thought it might be helpful to separate out the users that are trying to upgrade a Tivo HD using comer's JMFS tools. The original thread is here and the tools were designed for the Premiere, but based upon the experience of several members (including myself), it appears to work fine for Tivo HD's as well. If you intend to expand only to a maximum of 1.26TB, then you're probably better off sticking with WinMFS and the instructions in this thread.
If you're a little adventurous and you want to expand and fully utilize a 1.5TB/2.0TB drive, then you can try out this recipe:

Use an original 160GB Tivo HD Drive - if it doesn't have the latest software, install it back into your Tivo HD and force it to upgrade to the latest version (11.0j currently).
Burn a copy of JMFS Live onto a CD (or run it from a USB drive) from the Premiere Drive Upgrade thread. Follow those directions to connect and boot up with (1) the original 160GB Tivo HD drive and (2) the new 1.5TB/2.0TB drive.
Run the menu item to do the disk copy from your original drive to your new drive.
Run the menu item to do the expansion of your new drive.
If you want to verify the AAM setting, you can go to the command line in JMFS and use "hdparm -M <device>". A value of 128 indicates that the drive is set for the quietest mode.
Depending upon the drive you're using, you may also want to use "wdidle3.exe" to check and if necessary, disable the idle timeout for your drive to prevent a "soft reboot" issue. Please refer to Section IV, #29 of the original upgrade FAQ for the full details.
If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then *DO NOT USE* the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs.
Install the new drive back into your Tivo HD and enjoy!

Updated 2/11/2011 (and caveat added 8/14/2011):
Thanks to some pioneering work by KenVa, if you wish to keep all of the shows on your current THD, you can possibly use a WinMFS expanded drive as a source (see teiland's posts starting here to confirm the state of your WinMFS source drive for some possible issues):

Burn a copy of JMFS Live (at least v1.04) onto a CD (or run it from a USB drive) from the Premiere Drive Upgrade thread. Follow those directions to connect and boot up with (1) a WinMFS expanded, Tivo HD drive and (2) the new 1.5TB/2.0TB drive.
Run the menu item to do the disk copy from your source drive to your new drive.
Run the menu item to do the expansion of your new drive.
If you want to verify the AAM setting, you can go to the command line in JMFS and use "hdparm -M <device>". A value of 128 indicates that the drive is set for the quietest mode.
Depending upon the drive you're using, you may also want to use "wdidle3.exe" to check and if necessary, disable the idle timeout for your drive to prevent a "soft reboot" issue. Please refer to Section IV, #29 of the original upgrade FAQ for the full details.
If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then *DO NOT USE* the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs. If you already did the "turn on supersize" step with your source drive, you do not need to do it with the new drive as well - that setting will have been copied over already.
Install the new drive back into your Tivo HD and enjoy!

Notes:

I had been running on 750GB drives in my Tivo HD's, and since I wanted to keep some shows I tried various methods of upgrading. The failures are documented here. Given our current experience, it doesn't seem possible to upgrade from an expanded drive to a 1.5TB/2.0TB drive. 
As of 2/8/2011, KenVa successfully sourced from an already expanded drive and retiredqwest replicated that success.
As of 8/10/2011, teiland identified an issue (and a possible workaround) if you are sourcing from a WinMFS expanded drive which shows a 16th partition labeled "Apple_Free".

Thanks:

Props to comer for building the JMFS tools and also to retiredqwest for being the pioneering, first brave soul to try out and document success with the Tivo HD (and particularly for using WinMFS to do the supersize)!
Thanks also to KenVa for showing us how to use an already expanded drive as a source for those that want to carry over their current recordings.
Thanks to teiland for identifying some additional issues with WinMFS source drives.


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## retiredqwest

Yes, you pretty much have the methodology on expanding the THD. 


2 things bear mentioning...

1. Dual docking stations are not recognized by the underlying linux OS on the JMFS CD. 


And lastly... no it will not read a S3 drive.....


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## ThreeSoFar

retiredqwest said:


> Yes, you pretty much have the methodology on expanding the THD.
> 
> 2 things bear mentioning...
> 
> 1. Dual docking stations are not recognized by the underlying linux OS on the JMFS CD.


Is this what you mean by a dual docking station? *sigh* That's annoying. I bought one thinking it would work, it just hasn't arrived yet.



retiredqwest said:


> 2. You can NOT expand a THD previously expanded drive as the source for JMFS. JMFS will add the new partition, THD will not see it. JMFS was written for the Premiere, not the THD. That it even works is fortunate, so as to break the 1.2 GB barrier.


Yup, I can (re)confirm that. I'll expand on it a bit, in fact, though perhaps this is in the other thread. The JMFS software reports success and 287 hours on expanding. But the THD on boot comes up to a "no external storage device found" page. If you :down::down::down:ENTER to confirm, you're allowed to divorce the external storage (which is really some odd side effect of trying JMFS to expand the previously upgraded drive which never did have an external drive).


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## mattack

Tivoitis said:


> [*]If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then *DO NOT USE* the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs.





retiredqwest said:


> 2. You can NOT expand a THD previously expanded drive as the source for JMFS. JMFS will add the new partition, THD will not see it. JMFS was written for the Premiere, not the THD. That it even works is fortunate, so as to break the 1.2 GB barrier.


OK, this is an appropriate thread because I just today tried upgrading a TivoHD drive to 1 TB drive.

I *did* start with the orig 160 GB Tivo HD drive. But I *DID* use the JMFS supersize menu option.

The drive is currently working in my TivoHD.. but still has the same size (21 HD hours, 184 SD hours).

Is the fact that I used supersize the reason it didn't work? That's what I don't quite understand... I would kind of understand if it wasn't working at all.

I used supersize since it said it would use less advertizing space so I thought I'd get extra space even on just a 1 TB drive.


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## retiredqwest

ThreeSoFar said:


> Is this what you mean by a dual docking station? *sigh* That's annoying. I bought one thinking it would work, it just hasn't arrived yet.


That is the one I have. It has something to do with port replicating using one USB cable. The Duet does work with Windows... FWIW

When I copied the THD drive I used a spare computer and connected the drives to the motherboard sata ports.


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## retiredqwest

mattack said:


> OK, this is an appropriate thread because I just today tried upgrading a TivoHD drive to 1 TB drive.
> 
> I *did* start with the orig 160 GB Tivo HD drive. But I *DID* use the JMFS supersize menu option.
> 
> The drive is currently working in my TivoHD.. but still has the same size (21 HD hours, 184 SD hours).
> 
> Is the fact that I used supersize the reason it didn't work? That's what I don't quite understand... I would kind of understand if it wasn't working at all.
> 
> I used supersize since it said it would use less advertizing space so I thought I'd get extra space even on just a 1 TB drive.


In step 6



> If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then DO NOT USE the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs.


Remember, JMFS was written for the TP..... Comer does not even have a THD.


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## mattack

retiredqwest said:


> In step 6
> 
> Remember, JMFS was written for the TP..... Comer does not even have a THD.


But you didn't answer my question. What happens if you DO use supersize?

Do I have to start over and recopy everything?


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## retiredqwest

mattack said:


> But you didn't answer my question. What happens if you DO use supersize?
> 
> Do I have to start over and recopy everything?


The short answer is I don't know.

You could try WINMFS and see if it turns on supersize. And pop it back into the THD and see what you get.


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## mattack

I have no Windows machine. I'm doing this on a Mac (booting into the Linux-based jmfs in this case). I might try running the other tools compiled on a Mac, since I have a S3 to upgrade anyway. I might just try redoing the tivohd with jmfs though.


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## sa_smcvic

Thanks TIVOITIS for posting this procedure. It worked great!!!
Also, thanks to all that contributed to the hours coming up with the upgrades and procedures. I'll be donating soon!!!!

I tried just using jmfs exclusively and kept getting the the 21 HD hours on my 2TB drive. So with your procedure of combining the two methods, it worked for me. I now have 318 HD hours on my TIVO HD.


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## mattack

I should have posted again last night. Redoing everything the same except NOT supersizing, my 1 tb drive now shows up expanded on my tivohd.

Now I'll have to do the old method to expand my s3 drive since jmfs doesn't work with s3.

So I'll eventually post in the main jmfs thread that it should disallow supersize for tivohd drives.

This thread should maybe become a sticky.


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## Tivoitis

mattack said:


> OK, this is an appropriate thread because I just today tried upgrading a TivoHD drive to 1 TB drive.
> 
> I *did* start with the orig 160 GB Tivo HD drive. But I *DID* use the JMFS supersize menu option.
> 
> The drive is currently working in my TivoHD.. but still has the same size (21 HD hours, 184 SD hours).
> 
> Is the fact that I used supersize the reason it didn't work? That's what I don't quite understand... I would kind of understand if it wasn't working at all.
> 
> I used supersize since it said it would use less advertizing space so I thought I'd get extra space even on just a 1 TB drive.


Sorry, I haven't been on the site in a little while, but yes, the JMFS Supersize causes problems with THD's. I think you have to drop to the command line to try repairing it, but I'm not even sure if I ever got that to work - I think I pretty much always had to start from scratch if I did the JMFS Supersize instead of using the WinMFS Supersize.


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## mattack

Can you make it so that it recognizes a TivoHD and *won't* allow you to supersize? That's the best option for now..


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## Tivoitis

mattack said:


> Can you make it so that it recognizes a TivoHD and *won't* allow you to supersize? That's the best option for now..


That would be a question for comer ... I'm not sure if JMFS has code that would allow it to detect the difference between a Premiere drive and a THD drive.


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## lynnalexandra

SA-SMCvic: Are you saying that you have a single upgraded 2TB internal drive in your Tivo HD? I'd love to hear that that is possible since I just experienced my external hard drive failing. previously I had upgraded my Tivo HD to 1TB internal hd and 1TB external hard drive. Now the external drive failed (which I see is a weak point in this upgraded scenario). Once I figure out if I can save my data in any fashion, I'd prefer a single 2TB internal hard drive. 

Since the 2 drives are married, I don't know how I can try to recover data from a failing drive when it must stay married to another drive.

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> SA-SMCvic: Are you saying that you have a single upgraded 2TB internal drive in your Tivo HD? I'd love to hear that that is possible since I just experienced my external hard drive failing. previously I had upgraded my Tivo HD to 1TB internal hd and 1TB external hard drive. Now the external drive failed (which I see is a weak point in this upgraded scenario). Once I figure out if I can save my data in any fashion, I'd prefer a single 2TB internal hard drive.
> 
> Since the 2 drives are married, I don't know how I can try to recover data from a failing drive when it must stay married to another drive.
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


TiVo HD/HDXL 2TB Upgrade instructions: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179 (or you could scroll up to the first post of this thread )

You'll need to use your original hard drive for the 2TB upgrade. If you want to save your existing recordings you'll need to transfer any (that aren't protected) to another TiVo or to your computer using TiVo Desktop or KMTTG or a similar program and then transfer them back when you're done.


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## richsadams

Now that I look at the first post on this thread, I note that it's for a basic TiVo HD (160GB HDD). I can't recall...has someone with a TiVo HDXL (1TB HDD) used jmfs to upgrade to a 2TB drive? I can't see any reason it wouldn't work, but it would be good to have confirmation. TIA


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## lynnalexandra

Rich - I have a basic Tivo HD. I upgraded with your wonderful guidance 1 1/2 years ago. I do have the original drive - is the upgrade to 2TB any harder than the upgrade I did using Winmfs?

Now the big problem is that I can't get the external hard drive to work - Tivo keeps saying the external hard drive is missing. I was hoping it would work at least once so I could transfer my recordings. (I did post about this on a separate thread - but haven't gotten responses:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8351241#post8351241

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## L David Matheny

lynnalexandra said:


> SA-SMCvic: Are you saying that you have a single upgraded 2TB internal drive in your Tivo HD? I'd love to hear that that is possible since I just experienced my external hard drive failing. previously I had upgraded my Tivo HD to 1TB internal hd and 1TB external hard drive. Now the external drive failed (which I see is a weak point in this upgraded scenario). Once I figure out if I can save my data in any fashion, I'd prefer a single 2TB internal hard drive.
> 
> Since the 2 drives are married, I don't know how I can try to recover data from a failing drive when it must stay married to another drive.
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


I upgraded a TiVo HD to 1TB and more recently a Premiere to 2TB. It is my understanding that the 2TB upgrade also works to expand an original TiVo HD drive, but you then have to use a different method to "Supersize" it (to recover those last few hours of recording space).

If your external drive is readable, you might be able to clone it to an identical drive using Acronis or something similar, but if you try that then use the bootable CD version. You need something that can copy raw data from one drive to another. The consensus seems to be that you should not connect a TiVo drive to a computer running Windows. (I've cloned drives with Acronis, but not TiVo drives.)


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## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> Rich - I have a basic Tivo HD. I upgraded with your wonderful guidance 1 1/2 years ago. I do have the original drive - is the upgrade to 2TB any harder than the upgrade I did using Winmfs?
> 
> Now the big problem is that I can't get the external hard drive to work - Tivo keeps saying the external hard drive is missing. I was hoping it would work at least once so I could transfer my recordings. (I did post about this on a separate thread - but haven't gotten responses:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8351241#post8351241
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


See my answer there:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8354416#post8354416

Best of luck!


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## Tivoitis

richsadams said:


> Now that I look at the first post on this thread, I note that it's for a basic TiVo HD (160GB HDD). I can't recall...has someone with a TiVo HDXL (1TB HDD) used jmfs to upgrade to a 2TB drive? I can't see any reason it wouldn't work, but it would be good to have confirmation. TIA


I can't confirm if JMFS will work with the Tivo HDXL (like you, I imagine that it would), but since WinMFS can work, I'd recommend that first. WinMFS can do a truncated backup and restore from that truncated backup, so it would be faster and more efficient to use that. Duplicating 1TB via JMFS, especially through a dock and the documented time it's taken others to duplicate the 320GB of the Premiere implies it might take 36 hours or so to duplicate the THDXL's 1TB.


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## richsadams

Tivoitis said:


> I can't confirm if JMFS will work with the Tivo HDXL (like you, I imagine that it would), but since WinMFS can work, I'd recommend that first. WinMFS can do a truncated backup and restore from that truncated backup, so it would be faster and more efficient to use that. Duplicating 1TB via JMFS, especially through a dock and the documented time it's taken others to duplicate the 320GB of the Premiere implies it might take 36 hours or so to duplicate the THDXL's 1TB.


So you're recommending creating a truncated backup of a TiVo HDXL's 1TB drive via winMFS and then using that image to upgrade to a 2TB drive with jmfs? I understand the time concept being superior but since a 2TB upgrade can't be done using winMFS I guess I'm not clear on how or if that would work...or how it would work for folks wanting to save all of their recordings as well. Or am I confused (nothing unusual)?


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## lynnalexandra

L. David - thank you for the guidance about cloning with Acronis (if the drive is even readable) - and booting from the acronis bootable cd (and not letting windows run). So first I'll have to see if my drive is readable - not sure how to do this other than putting the drive in another enclosure (or esata dock?) - connect that to the Tivo HD - see if the Tivo can find the external drive?

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> L. David - thank you for the guidance about cloning with Acronis (if the drive is even readable) - and booting from the acronis bootable cd (and not letting windows run). So first I'll have to see if my drive is readable - not sure how to do this other than putting the drive in another enclosure (or esata dock?) - connect that to the Tivo HD - see if the Tivo can find the external drive?
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


If there's a problem with data corruption on the external drive, cloning it would just transfer the problem. If the drive itself is good and the enclosure is the problem, then putting it in another enclosure (probably not a dock per my other post) would resolve things.

In your case there's a very good chance that the problem is with the hard drive itself and not the enclosure since you're using an MX-1. The enclosure idea came from the experiences of folks using the original 500GB WD My DVR Expanders. Those enclosures seemed to cause about 50% of the failure rate. Your setup is different.

FWIW Windows used to auto-format drives back in the Win95 days or so. Now there's no problem connecting a TiVo drive to a Windows machine (something one must do to run winMFS of course). The issue arises if someone were to use Windows Disk Management to format the drive so that they could "see" the drive on their Windows machine via "My Computer". Doing that could/would wipe the boot partition making it useless to TiVo.

2nd FWIW, the free unix/linux programs dd or dd rescue can create an identical copy of a hard drive. But again, garbage in, garbage out or an unnecessary activity in this case.


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## Tivoitis

richsadams said:


> So you're recommending creating a truncated backup of a TiVo HDXL's 1TB drive via winMFS and then using that image to upgrade to a 2TB drive with jmfs? I understand the time concept being superior but since a 2TB upgrade can't be done using winMFS I guess I'm not clear on how or if that would work...or how it would work for folks wanting to save all of their recordings as well. Or am I confused (nothing unusual)?


Hmm, maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that a Tivo HDXL could be upgraded to 2TB using WinMFS because the original Tivo HDXL drive is already 1TB and can be expanded by a maximum of 1.1TB more, which could then max out a 2TB drive. In the case of the Tivo HD, we start with 160GB, so with WinMFS we would only be able to expand up to 1.26TB.

So my suggestion for Tivo HDXL owners (assuming that WinMFS does work in this situation) is to just use WinMFS. They can use the truncated backup if there are no shows they need to save or use the full copy (mfscopy) if they want to save their shows.


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## L David Matheny

lynnalexandra said:


> L. David - thank you for the guidance about cloning with Acronis (if the drive is even readable) - and booting from the acronis bootable cd (and not letting windows run). So first I'll have to see if my drive is readable - not sure how to do this other than putting the drive in another enclosure (or esata dock?) - connect that to the Tivo HD - see if the Tivo can find the external drive?
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


(I just saw your other thread.) I defer to Rich's judgment and (probably to a lesser extent) that of the TiVo tech. Rich is probably right that cloning isn't likely to get you anywhere, but when you have a clone in hand, even a corrupted one, you are free to "have your way with it" without fear of harming the original. Of course in your situation peace of mind would come only from having clones of both drives, internal and external.

One other thought, if money is no object: You could save both current drives pending some future breakthrough or insight and go ahead with your upgrade to a new 2TB drive (from the original 160GB) using Comer's JMFS. This would be like Dr. House putting the patient on ice to have more time for differential diagnosis. Once you've upgraded though, you would have to be pretty confident of success to take your TiVo apart again.

OK, one more thought: If money is really no object, this might be the time to consider buying a Premiere to use for the 2TB upgrade. Good luck!


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## richsadams

L David Matheny said:


> This would be like Dr. House putting the patient on ice to have more time for differential diagnosis.


LOL...what a great and oh-so-apropos analogy! 

FWIW I'm hoping that Lynn will be able to run the Kickstarts, get everything resolved and then go ahead and upgrade to a 2TB internal drive. Fingers crossed.


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## lynnalexandra

L. David - I wish money were no object at all - but $300 for the Premiere and another $300 for a life time subscription is a lot to pay when I have a Tivo HD - who internal upgraded 1TB drive seems to be fine - and I have a lifetime subscription on it. I have a perfectly fine Tivo - it's the external drive that's the problem. If the Tivo itself were failed - or didn't have a lifetime guarantee, I could see getting the Premier.

My main problem now is whether I can save my data. 

I love the idea of putting the patient on ice - only it would mean putting a living breathing tivo HD on ice (that has cable cards paired already) - and dealing with Comcast again. 

Rich - I wish I could get kickstart running - but my many attempts didn't work. I followed the Tivo instructions - but the machine never responded. Too bad the problem is not likely to be the enclosure. I guess that's why the Antec's are so expensive compared to other enclosures.

I am puzzled at why the kickstart gets no response. Not really sure what else to try - although when I get some time this weekend, I'll hook it all back up again and try - just in case.

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## nooneuknow

I have successfully upgraded my TiVo HDs using JMFS for copying and expanding, then using WinMFS to SuperSize them.

It cured the problem I was having using the "Broflovski Image" to get to 2TB.

That problem involved getting caught is GSOD loops when using KS commands, which would require re-imaging, as well as losing everything that was on the unit.

Best of luck.


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## Wulf

I just want to report another success upgrading a TivoHD to 2TB using comer's JMFS tool, and the instructions at the start of this thread. A couple of observations and hints for other relative newbs like me:


I used a WD20EARS drive.
wdidle3 is a DOS application. I burned a boot CD image from http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ so I could boot to DOS and the run wdidle3 from there.
HDDScan wouldn't allow me to make the AAM changes on my drive, so I used an older version of the Hitachi Feature Tool to make the change. I think HDDScan would have worked if I had right clicked the executable and chosen "Run as Administrator", but I didn't think of that at the time.
JMFS worked without any issues and was super-easy to use.
WinMFS did not detect any of my hard drives at first, but then I figured out that I had to copy the executable to my Windows 7 system's hard drive, right click and choose "Run as Administrator" and then it showed the Tivo drive.
WinMFS executes the Supersize command pretty much instantly. There's no feedback that it has done it, but the Tivo says it did based on seeing 318 hours of space.
My PC case is accessible so I did all the connecting of drives right to the motherboard. This eliminated any concerns with using external drive docks.
Thank you to comer for developing the process and others who have posted useful info to enable expansion of the TivoHD to 2TB.


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## retiredqwest

This message: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8367552#post8367552

Mentions copying and expanding a drive done with Winmfs. Previously, I had tried this and JMFS did not even recognize the copied drive.

So, I used JMFS rev 1.04 to copy, expand and supersize the stock drive to a 1 TB WD10EADS drive. I plugged the 1TB and a Samsung 2TB directly into the SATA ports on a motherboard. And both drives have been recognized and it is working on the copy process at this moment. Will be back in 8 hours..... 

for the record.... my previous experiments were done using REV .68 of JMFS.


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## retiredqwest

Ok, evidently you can now use Comer's REV 1.04 JMFS to copy and expand a non stock expanded drive to a larger drive.

Using WINMFS I copied the THD 160 gig to a 1 TB WD10EADS and expanded and turned on supersize. It completed with no errors.

I then ran JMFS using the 1TB and a Samsung 2TB. It recognized both drives, did the copy with no errors and then did the expand.

Put the 2TB in the THD and after a while it finally came up and it shows 318 HD hours. 

Scotty


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## supersnoop

retiredqwest said:


> ...
> I then ran JMFS using the 1TB and a Samsung 2TB. It recognized both drives, did the copy with no errors and then did the expand.
> 
> Put the 2TB in the THD and after a while it finally came up and it shows 318 HD hours.


Did you run WinMFS's supersize on the 2TB drive?


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## KenVa

supersnoop said:


> Did you run WinMFS's supersize on the 2TB drive?


I didn't do that because it is already showing 318HRs. From what I read earlier in this thread that is what you get after running supersize. However Win MFS supersize was run on the first disk upgrade that I used for the source for this copy.


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## retiredqwest

supersnoop said:


> Did you run WinMFS's supersize on the 2TB drive?


For some unknown reason I had supersized the stock drive some time ago. So when I copy and expand a target drive it carries that setting along with the new drive. 
And since I had already upgraded my THD and TP using rev .86 I never thought of trying rev 1.04 to see if it would read an already expanded drive.

Kenva deserves the kudos for trying that!

No matter how you cut it.... JMFS will still *not* tweak the supersize option on a THD.


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## richsadams

retiredqwest said:


> Ok, evidently you can now use Comer's REV 1.04 JMFS to copy and expand a non stock expanded drive to a larger drive.
> 
> Using WINMFS I copied the THD 160 gig to a 1 TB WD10EADS and expanded and turned on supersize. It completed with no errors.
> 
> I then ran JMFS using the 1TB and a Samsung 2TB. It recognized both drives, did the copy with no errors and then did the expand.
> 
> Put the 2TB in the THD and after a while it finally came up and it shows 318 HD hours.
> 
> Scotty


Nice work confirming that...that's great to know! :up:


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## Tivoitis

retiredqwest said:


> Ok, evidently you can now use Comer's REV 1.04 JMFS to copy and expand a non stock expanded drive to a larger drive.
> 
> Using WINMFS I copied the THD 160 gig to a 1 TB WD10EADS and expanded and turned on supersize. It completed with no errors.
> 
> I then ran JMFS using the 1TB and a Samsung 2TB. It recognized both drives, did the copy with no errors and then did the expand.
> 
> Put the 2TB in the THD and after a while it finally came up and it shows 318 HD hours.
> 
> Scotty





KenVa said:


> I didn't do that because it is already showing 318HRs. From what I read earlier in this thread that is what you get after running supersize. However Win MFS supersize was run on the first disk upgrade that I used for the source for this copy.





retiredqwest said:


> For some unknown reason I had supersized the stock drive some time ago. So when I copy and expand a target drive it carries that setting along with the new drive.
> And since I had already upgraded my THD and TP using rev .86 I never thought of trying rev 1.04 to see if it would read an already expanded drive.
> 
> Kenva deserves the kudos for trying that!
> 
> No matter how you cut it.... JMFS will still *not* tweak the supersize option on a THD.


Thanks to you both for confirming this new option that'll let people preserve their current recordings! I've updated the first post now with this new alternative.

Looking back at my experiments, this was one option that I definitely missed out on trying - the most I did with the expanded drive was to make a truncated backup and use that as a source (which failed). Out of curiosity, how long did it take to copy over 1TB?


----------



## Wulf

retiredqwest said:


> Ok, evidently you can now use Comer's REV 1.04 JMFS to copy and expand a non stock expanded drive to a larger drive.
> 
> Using WINMFS I copied the THD 160 gig to a 1 TB WD10EADS and expanded and turned on supersize. It completed with no errors.
> 
> I then ran JMFS using the 1TB and a Samsung 2TB. It recognized both drives, did the copy with no errors and then did the expand.
> 
> Put the 2TB in the THD and after a while it finally came up and it shows 318 HD hours.
> 
> Scotty


I can also confirm that this process just worked for me. I was able to upgrade my previously upgraded TivoHD to 2TB. The TivoHD had been previously copied/expanded/supersized from the stock 160GB drive to a Hitachi 7K1000.C 1TB drive using WinMFS. I just copied/expanded that to a Samsung F4 HD204UI 2TB drive using JMFS. The copy took about 5 hours with both drives connected to my PC motherboard (no USB docks). JMFS showed an expanded capacity of 288 hours, but the Tivo confirms it's 318 hours. Previous recordings were all preserved.

Thanks again to Comer for the great JMFS tool, and the other pioneers for discovering this new upgrade path.

I guess I need to put together a sig, but I have two THDs, both now at 2TB, plus three Series 2 Tivo/DVD combos all using Tivo Basic, and all upgraded to 500GB drives. Two of the Series 2s will be retired soon - one of the THDs is taking their place.


----------



## Wulf

In the past with my Series 2 Tivos, I replaced the hard drives proactively after about three or four years, and at the same time expanded to more capacity. For example, a Toshiba SD-H400 upgraded from the original 80GB drive to 160GB, then three years later upgrade from 160GB to 500GB. I never had any issues because I was always expanding to more capacity.

Now, with a THD upgraded to a 2TB drive using JMFS and WinMFS, I'm at the max size limit. If I want to proactively replace that drive in three years, the new drive will probably be no larger than the same 2TB, and it might be a couple of bits or bytes smaller depending on the brand/model. Using today's tools (JMFS, WinMFS), would I run into problems trying to copy to a drive with a bit less capacity?


----------



## richsadams

Wulf said:


> Now, with a THD upgraded to a 2TB drive using JMFS and WinMFS, I'm at the max size limit. If I want to proactively replace that drive in three years, the new drive will probably be no larger than the same 2TB, and it might be a couple of bits or bytes smaller depending on the brand/model. Using today's tools (JMFS, WinMFS), would I run into problems trying to copy to a drive with a bit less capacity?


If your 2TB drive is still functioning normally you should be able to use dd or dd_rescue to make a bit-for-bit copy instead. Of course it's also quite possible that by then the Series6 TiVo's will have a 10TB capacity.


----------



## Wulf

richsadams said:


> If your 2TB drive is still functioning normally you should be able to use dd or dd_rescue to make a bit-for-bit copy instead. Of course it's also quite possible that by then the Series6 TiVo's will have a 10TB capacity.


Thanks for the info Rich. So it would be a linux command like one of these I found here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_%28Unix%29

Using dd to duplicate one hard disk partition to another hard disk:
*dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/sdb2 bs=4096 conv=noerror*

Using dd to clone a hard disk to another hard disk:
*dd if=/dev/ad0 of=/dev/ad1 bs=1M conv=noerror*

Sorry, I'm not a linux guy at all. It's bit-for-bit, but doesn't copy the empty bits? And the Tivo will see the full drive capacity? I don't need to figure this out now - just curious how it would work.

BTW, my two HD Tivos both have Liftetime, so unless something dramatic changes in the broadcast and display of HD, I hope to keep them around for a long time.


----------



## retiredqwest

Tivoitis said:


> Thanks to you both for confirming this new option that'll let people preserve their current recordings! I've updated the first post now with this new alternative.
> 
> Looking back at my experiments, this was one option that I definitely missed out on trying - the most I did with the expanded drive was to make a truncated backup and use that as a source (which failed). Out of curiosity, how long did it take to copy over 1TB?


I'm guessing 7-8 hours to do the deed. And that is direct MB connection with a quad core and 4 meg ram.

And yes, this is really nice for those that have upgraded the drives once before.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Wulf said:


> Thanks for the info Rich. So it would be a linux command like one of these I found here?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_%28Unix%29
> 
> Using dd to duplicate one hard disk partition to another hard disk:
> *dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/sdb2 bs=4096 conv=noerror*
> 
> Using dd to clone a hard disk to another hard disk:
> *dd if=/dev/ad0 of=/dev/ad1 bs=1M conv=noerror*
> 
> Sorry, I'm not a linux guy at all. It's bit-for-bit, but doesn't copy the empty bits? And the Tivo will see the full drive capacity? I don't need to figure this out now - just curious how it would work.
> 
> BTW, my two HD Tivos both have Liftetime, so unless something dramatic changes in the broadcast and display of HD, I hope to keep them around for a long time.


Actually, the JMFS cd uses dd_rescue, a form of dd. If you were to use ONLY the copy portion of that menu (and if the destination drive is at least as big as the source), then you should be good to go.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Actually, the JMFS cd uses dd_rescue, a form of dd. If you were to use ONLY the copy portion of that menu (and if the destination drive is at least as big as the source), then you should be good to go.


There you go...copy only...done! :up:


----------



## lessd

ThreeSoFar said:


> Actually, the JMFS cd uses dd_rescue, a form of dd. If you were to use ONLY the copy portion of that menu (and if the destination drive is at least as big as the source), then you should be good to go.


I think the question the OP asked was if the new 2Tb drive is say 15 byte smaller then the original 2Tb will any direct copy work. I think is is a good question that i don't know the answer, as all 2Tb drives may not have exactly the same number of bytes. I do know that a 40Tb drive used in a Humax 590 could not take a image from the Series 2 540 as it was a few bytes smaller.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

lessd said:


> I think the question the OP asked was if the new 2Tb drive is say 15 bits smaller then the original 2Tb will any direct copy work. I think is is a good question that i don't know the answer, as all 2Tb drives may not have exactly the same number of bits. I do know that a 40Tb drive used in a Humax 590 could not take a image from the Series 2 540 as it was a few bits smaller.


My answer was clear--the new/duplicate drive must be at least as big as the older one.


----------



## lessd

ThreeSoFar said:


> My answer was clear--the new/duplicate drive must be at least as big as the older one.


IMHO your answer was far from clear as you can't tell from the specs the *EXACT* size of any drive, so the answer to the OP question is good luck with any replacement drive and hope it has the exact number or more bytes as your original drive or the copy will not work. When most normal people think of the size of a drive they think 1Tb 1.5Tb 2Tb etc not the 13 numbers that define the exact number of Bytes on the drive. IE a 1.19Tb drive could have 1,317,010,403,328 bytes, it would still be called a 1.19TB drive if the last 3 digits were say 298.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

lessd said:


> IMHO your answer was far from clear as you can't tell from the specs the *EXACT* size of any drive, so the answer to the OP question is good luck with any replacement drive and hope it has the exact number or more bytes as your original drive or the copy will not work. When most normal people think of the size of a drive they think 1Tb 1.5Tb 2Tb etc not the 13 numbers that define the exact number of Bytes on the drive. IE a 1.19Tb drive could have 1,317,010,403,328 bytes, it would still be called a 1.19TB drive if the last 3 digits were say 298.


Valid point about the exact size, but clear is clear...bigger (or equal) works. That's very clear.

At purchase, you'll have no way at all to confirm the exact number of bytes. Given a model number you can get a good guess from Google, but it won't necessarily match your drive once you get it. Once you have it in hand, however, it's easy.

The JMFS disk will easily let you do this. There may be better ways (fdisk -l, hddparm), but my first try would be to exit out to a shell and type (and read the output of) "dmesg". In there somewhere will be specifics, to include byte count, of all drives found when the CD booted.


----------



## Wulf

lessd said:


> I think the question the OP asked was if the new 2Tb drive is say 15 bits smaller then the original 2Tb will any direct copy work. I think is is a good question that i don't know the answer, as all 2Tb drives may not have exactly the same number of bits. I do know that a 40Tb drive used in a Humax 590 could not take a image from the Series 2 540 as it was a few bits smaller.


Thanks lessd for following up on my question. I know I can copy to a drive that is equal or bigger. Still wondering if any tool exists that lets me copy to a drive that's a tiny bit smaller. Based on ThreeSoFar's response, so far the answer is "no". Going back to the original unexpanded drive is always an option (I keep those stored for "disaster recovery"), but of course you lose any programming and updates on the current drive.


----------



## richsadams

Wulf said:


> Going back to the original unexpanded drive is always an option (I keep those stored for "disaster recovery"), but of course you lose any programming and updates on the current drive.


Keeping the original drive on the shelf is very wise and certainly an option for imaging a replacement. I'm not as mindful as I should be, but I periodically reinstall my original TiVo hard drives I have on the shelf and I either let them run for a time or I force a connection so that they download and install the latest version, channel lineups, etc. That way they're somewhat up to date if I have to use them to re-image a new drive. Since updates aren't incremental, all it takes is once to get the latest and then it goes back on the shelf.


----------



## L David Matheny

lessd said:


> IMHO your answer was far from clear as you can't tell from the specs the *EXACT* size of any drive, so the answer to the OP question is good luck with any replacement drive and hope it has the exact number or more bytes as your original drive or the copy will not work. When most normal people think of the size of a drive they think 1Tb 1.5Tb 2Tb etc not the 13 numbers that define the exact number of Bytes on the drive. IE a 1.19Tb drive could have 1,317,010,403,328 bytes, it would still be called a 1.19TB drive if the last 3 digits were say 298.


Manufacturer spec sheets sometimes give things like "User sectors per drive" which should be pretty precise. For example, see this for some WD AV-GP drives: http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701250.pdf


----------



## Wulf

It looks like the user sector info is right on the drive label for most manufactures. Here are labels for example Samsung, WD and Hitachi drives.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImage=22-152-245-Z02&SpinSet=22-152-245-RS&ISList=22-152-245-Z01%2c22-152-245-Z02%2c22-152-245-Z03%2c22-152-245-Z04&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16822152245&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=SAMSUNG%20Spinpoint%20F4%20HD204UI%202TB%205400%20RPM%20SATA%203.0Gb%2fs%203.5%22%20Internal%20Hard%20Drive%20-Bare%20Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImage=22-136-344-Z02&ISList=22-136-344-Z01%2c22-136-344-Z02%2c22-136-344-Z03%2c22-136-344-Z04&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16822136344&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=Western%20Digital%20Caviar%20Green%20WD20EADS%202TB%20SATA%203.0Gb%2fs%203.5%22%20Internal%20Hard%20Drive%20-Bare%20Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Image... 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

They're all the same number (3,907,029, 168). I don't know whether that's good or bad...


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Wulf said:


> It looks like the user sector info is right on the drive label for most manufactures. Here are labels for example Samsung, WD and Hitachi drives.


What's more important though, and also is potentially different for each and every drive, is what the OS recognizes. Each drive may have bad sectors that have been labeled as such in its own memory, the number of which may differ from one to another.

So boot up the JMFS CD (or any Linux OS), use the linux tools (dmesg, hddparm, fdisk -l) to see those numbers for your particular drive.

When first buying a replacement drive, the only sure fire ways are:
Make sure you can return the drive for a full refund in case it's a little too small; or
Get a drive that's slightly bigger (2.5TB in this case)--but that's getting harder to do at a reasonable price difference.


----------



## lessd

L David Matheny said:


> Manufacturer spec sheets sometimes give things like "User sectors per drive" which should be pretty precise. For example, see this for some WD AV-GP drives: http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701250.pdf


I looked at that spec sheet and it does not go down to the byte level only the Mb level so even if there were no bad sectors you still can't get the full 13 digits needed to check the exact size to compare to the original drive. As I see it you first have to purchase the drive than put it in your computer to find out if the drive is the exact (or bigger) size in bytes. This is only an issue when making and exact copy from on disk to another that are both the same nominal size.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

lessd said:


> I looked at that spec sheet and it does not go down to the byte level only the Mb level so even if there were no bad sectors you still can't get the full 13 digits needed to check the exact size to compare to the original drive. As I see it you first have to purchase the drive than put it in your computer to find out if the drive is the exact (or bigger) size in bytes. This is only an issue when making and exact copy from on disk to another that are both the same nominal size.


Yup, you got it. And given the risk of difficulty finding a drive the right size that allows you to preserve your old recordings, (and as Rich often points out here), keeping that original hard drive never(or barely) used on a shelf as a source for future rebuilds is definitely a smart thing to do.

I have pristine never booted Series 3, HDTiVo and Premiere drives on hand now. And I have mfsbackups of Series 1 and 2's on hand (and backed up), as well.


----------



## rbarre1

I see lots of threads that give direction on replacing HD HDDs that have failed, but none specific to the series 2. How can I format new drive for my series 2. I took the old one out (which has failed) and it is a Western Digital 80 GB drive. Any advice?


----------



## richsadams

rbarre1 said:


> I see lots of threads that give direction on replacing HD HDDs that have failed, but none specific to the series 2. How can I format new drive for my series 2. I took the old one out (which has failed) and it is a Western Digital 80 GB drive. Any advice?


If you don't happen to have a truncated backup of your original drive you can use Instant Cake:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

You'll need a drive larger than the original drive because IC is an expansion program. Any of the WD GP "green" drives should do nicely.

A DIY upgrade is fairly easy, but if you don't want to do any of the legwork you can always buy a pre-imaged drive from Weaknees.com or DVRUpgrade.com (actually the same company now). Folks on ebay can often be found selling TiVo drives too.

Hope that helps!


----------



## SoKal5366

Hello Folks,

You can read about my woes with my one-year-old Tivo HD XL here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=464771. To cut to short of it, alyssa has been h-o-u-n-d-i-n-g me to check out jmfs (shhh...don't tell her I said this).    Seriously, she and dlfl have been very kind and helpful to me on my thread, but now I'm jumping here to ask my jmfs-specific questions on this thread.

In summary, I want to copy my settings and programs off what-appears-to-be a sickly stock 1TB drive, and onto a new 2TB WD20EVDS drive. I tried using WinMFS, but a full copy was taking forever. After running through the night, in the morning WinMFS was reporting on-screen that it still needed *another* 29 hours to complete the copy. (This I'm sure is evidence to the bad shape the 1TB drive is in.) That's when I gave up, did a fast truncated copy from the safety backup I had made, and got my TiVo back up and running with the new 2TB drive, for the time being. But I'm still looking for a way to get my previously recorded programs onto the new 2TB drive.

I've been reading and reading, and I'm starting to understand why jmfs might give me a better chance, although it would mean my having to admit to alyssa that she was right all along. 

So, I'm coming here to this thread to ask some questions and check my understandings before I try out jmfs. Of course, I'm open to any advice you may have for me, as well.

I've created the jmfs CD and printed the instructions from the Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions sticky thread.

I've also read Tivoitis' Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS.

So, my questions are......


Tivoitis' instructions talk about the Tivo HD and do not explicitly mention the Tivo HD XL. I think I've read that others have had success with the HD XL, but I just want to confirm: Am I okay using jmfs with a Tivo HD XL? Specifically, for copying a stock 1TB to a new 2TB?
Is it still true that I need to use WinMFS to to the supersize, or can I use jmfs's? Tivioitis' instructions clearly say to use WinMFS, but other posts say jmfs now works. I'm confused. What is the latest consensus?
As I wrote in the thread that I originated, my HDD seems to be sick. Reading about jmfs's use of dd_rescue here, it seems like it might give me a better chance than WinMFS to copying my old programs off the sickly drive. What do you folks think?

TIA.


----------



## L David Matheny

SoKal5366 said:


> So, my questions are......
> 
> 
> Tivoitis' instructions talk about the Tivo HD and do not explicitly mention the Tivo HD XL. I think I've read that others have had success with the HD XL, but I just want to confirm: Am I okay using jmfs with a Tivo HD XL? Specifically, for copying a stock 1TB to a new 2TB?
> Is it still true that I need to use WinMFS to to the supersize, or can I use jmfs's? Tivioitis' instructions clearly say to use WinMFS, but other posts say jmfs now works. I'm confused. What is the latest consensus?
> As I wrote in the thread that I originated, my HDD seems to be sick. Reading about jmfs's use of dd_rescue here, it seems like it might give me a better chance than WinMFS to copying my old programs off the sickly drive. What do you folks think?
> 
> TIA.


1) I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure you're OK with the HDXL, especially with JMFS. I think a limitation of WinMFS is that it can upgrade only to original drive size + 1TB (more or less). With an HDXL that might still work, but if you had only a TiVo HD, I think you would definitely need JMFS to upgrade to 2TB. (Someone correct this if I'm wrong.) I'd use JMFS.

2) Yes, I think you do need to use WinMFS to supersize HD or HDXL drives. I think "supersizing" involved setting a data value in TiVo's code that tells it how much space to reserve for downloading advertising videos, etc. HD and HDXL may store that in a different location from what is used by Premiere and Premiere XL. Comer should know.

3) Whatever you use, work as quickly as you can. A failing drive can be grinding your data to dust (maybe literally) every minute that it is powered up. Still, you don't know exactly what's going on in there, and I've seen data copied off (computer) drives when I thought all was lost. Sometimes cooling helps. I've seen drives cooled with ice bags or bags of frozen peas, then popped into a docking station to copy off some more files before they can overheat again. You may have only a short time to work, so using a dock is faster than having to reboot a whole computer. The sheer volume of video data on a DVR drive makes recovery difficult.


----------



## richsadams

SoKal5366 said:


> <snip>In summary, I want to copy my settings and programs off what-appears-to-be a sickly stock 1TB drive, and onto a new 2TB WD20EVDS drive. I tried using WinMFS <snip>


Welcome. I asked for confirmation of a TiVo HDXL 1TB > 2TB upgrade using jmfs a while back and AFAIK no one has done that. (Plenty of folks have successfully upgraded TiVo HD's to 2TB's using jmfs however.) So you will be a TiVo Pioneer. There s/b no reason for it not to work. Due to partition differences between the TiVo Premiere for which jmfs was originally written and the TiVo HD/HDXL you will likely need to use winMFS to Supersize, but that should only take a moment.

dd_rescue is a bit-for-bit copy program that may or may not resolve data corruption issues (it's more likely a physical failure). If your drive is failing, take Mr. Matheny's advice and perform the upgrade sooner than later.


----------



## SoKal5366

Thanks, David, I understand. Time is of the essence.

After using both WinMFS and JMFS, I agree that both are very easy to use. Kidos to Comer.

I like the stats I'm seeing from JMFS. When things are humming along, I see a nice transfer rate of 20+ kB/s. In the screen shot below, 26.148 MB/s. Nice, nice.









http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_2...AD1A/Dz492wyyLNs/Photo Feb 17, 9 32 29 PM.jpg​
However, when JMFS (dd_recover?) comes across a sickly part of my disk, yeow. Just 2 kB/s...or even less. 2 kB/s is shown below, but I've even seen 256 bytes/s!









http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_2...AD08/g-H8UZN7Ca4/Photo Feb 17, 9 32 18 PM.jpg​
I'll be curious to see what happens when I plug the 2TB copy back into my TiVo. What will the result be of the 21 errors and the (loss?) of 6,988 kB. Hmmm....


----------



## L David Matheny

SoKal5366 said:


> I'll be curious to see what happens when I plug the 2TB copy back into my TiVo. What will the result be of the 21 errors and the (loss?) of 6,988 kB. Hmmm....


Despite my fears every minute I run a failing drive, I have seen drives run many hours without failing completely, so keep at it. Sometimes it seems like they just get extremely flaky due to running hotter. There's a relatively small amount of TiVo code somewhere, probably at the front of the drive; and there's got to be some sort of index or directory of your recordings somewhere; but the vast bulk of the data is actual video, and if that gets garbled it just means the garbled parts won't play properly (I think). Good luck.


----------



## alyssa

SoKal5366 said:


> ... To cut to short of it, alyssa has been h-o-u-n-d-i-n-g me to check out jmfs (shhh...don't tell her I said this).    ...



Did ya *really* think I wouldn't check out the upgrade forum?


----------



## dholzlein

richsadams said:


> ... jmfs was originally written and the TiVo HD/HDXL you will likely need to use winMFS to Supersize, but that should only take a moment.


My recollection is that the TiVo HDXL is factory supersized so he shouldn't need to go back to WinMFS once jmfs does it's thing.


----------



## SoKal5366

alyssa said:


> Did ya *really* think I wouldn't check out the upgrade forum?


[In my best John Wayne impersonation]​What's a pretty little thing like you doing here in these rough and tumble parts of the Upgrade Center.   

LOL.


----------



## Tivoitis

SoKal5366 said:


> So, my questions are......
> 
> 
> Tivoitis' instructions talk about the Tivo HD and do not explicitly mention the Tivo HD XL. I think I've read that others have had success with the HD XL, but I just want to confirm: Am I okay using jmfs with a Tivo HD XL? Specifically, for copying a stock 1TB to a new 2TB?
> Is it still true that I need to use WinMFS to to the supersize, or can I use jmfs's? Tivioitis' instructions clearly say to use WinMFS, but other posts say jmfs now works. I'm confused. What is the latest consensus?
> As I wrote in the thread that I originated, my HDD seems to be sick. Reading about jmfs's use of dd_rescue here, it seems like it might give me a better chance than WinMFS to copying my old programs off the sickly drive. What do you folks think?


I'm not aware of anyone trying with a Tivo HD XL yet, so I'm curious how it goes with your attempt. I don't know if you'll need to use WinMFS to turn on supersize (it may already be set that way with the THDXL), but you should NOT try the JMFS supersize option (it appears to only work for Premiere drives). Good luck and let us know how it all turns out!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Did anyone else just not bother with supersize? For another 30 hours or so of HD, on top of an already huge 290 hours, I figured why bother....I'll let TiVo have their space and make their ad money.


----------



## Tivoitis

ThreeSoFar said:


> Did anyone else just not bother with supersize? For another 30 hours or so of HD, on top of an already huge 290 hours, I figured why bother....I'll let TiVo have their space and make their ad money.


Based on what I've read, I think the smaller size Tivo's set aside a percentage of their space to be available for the Tivo ads, while the larger size Tivo's just have a specific amount of space set aside, so I think the supersize option is just to switch between the percentage method and the specific amount method. Anyone know if my thinking is correct?

In any case, I wanted as much space as possible, so I turned it on for both of my upgrades. I know there are still Tivo ads rotating through my THD's, so I don't think they were prevented from claiming any of that ad revenue (other than the fact that I rarely click through and watch any of it).


----------



## defucius

another success here with a WD20EARS.

I replaced an already expanded 500G drive in a tivo HD. The 4 year old 500 drive was failing because of an accidental movement and a sudden loss of power to the tivo. 

The 500G drive was not supersized. So I first super sized the drive with winmfs. The rest of the upgrading process was as smooth as it can be following the instructions.

One thing to note is that HDDSCAN could not change the AAM setting when the drive is connected through the SATA interface. It was due to the nforce sata/ide chipset of the motherboard. I reconnected the drive through usb and HDDSCAN happily changed the AAM setting.


----------



## jdsnov73

I just did the disc copy and expand using JMFS. I am trying to Supersize it with Winmfs.

I downloaded the winmfs beta 9.3. When I run it, I select "file" in the upper toolbar, then "select drive" and a new window opens for A drive and B drive. No info shows up when I had both the original drive and the new drive hooked up. I removed the old drive, and still do not get a drive to show up.

Am I doing something totally wrong? Am I using the wrong winmfs program to do the Supersize?

Thanks


----------



## defucius

jdsnov73 said:


> I just did the disc copy and expand using JMFS. I am trying to Supersize it with Winmfs.
> 
> I downloaded the winmfs beta 9.3. When I run it, I select "file" in the upper toolbar, then "select drive" and a new window opens for A drive and B drive. No info shows up when I had both the original drive and the new drive hooked up. I removed the old drive, and still do not get a drive to show up.
> 
> Am I doing something totally wrong? Am I using the wrong winmfs program to do the Supersize?
> 
> Thanks


I did not remember anything confusing when supersizing. Are you sure your drive is properly connected? Can windows see the drive properly? try run windows disc manager and see if you can see it. I'd try connect using a USB kit to see if it make any difference.


----------



## Wulf

jdsnov73 said:


> I am trying to Supersize it with Winmfs.
> 
> No info shows up when I had both the original drive and the new drive hooked up. I removed the old drive, and still do not get a drive to show up.
> 
> Am I doing something totally wrong? Am I using the wrong winmfs program to do the Supersize?
> 
> Thanks


I had the same probelm and found I had to copy WinMFS to my computer's hard drive (not run off a CD), and then right-click the WinMFS executable and choose "run as administrator". Then it showed me the connected drives.


----------



## jdsnov73

It's a 2TB drive. Windows disk management shows this as Disk 2, "unknown" 1863.02GB, Not Initialized.

I have it hooked to sata straight to the motherboard.


----------



## jdsnov73

Wulf said:


> I had the same probelm and found I had to copy WinMFS to my computer's hard drive (not run off a CD), and then right-click the WinMFS executable and choose "run as administrator". Then it showed me the connected drives.


Beautiful! Thanks so much!


----------



## jdsnov73

Everything is up and running great! My external Tivo drive crashed on me a few months ago, so I have been getting all sorts of delete messages when trying to schedule new recordings. With 318 hours of HD, I am SET! 

Thanks to those who figured this out, and Wulf for your quick answer to my question.


----------



## SoKal5366

Tivoitis, JMFS worked great for my TiVo HD XL. dd_rescue was really working hard to rescue all of my sickly 1TB disk. I let it run for 2 days. It was still on the "splitting pass," and slowly whittling down 29 MB to 22 MB to 16 MB, when I finally decided to pull the plug. This is what the screen showed when I did a hard reset on the PC. (It wasn't responding to Control-C, so I just had do a hard reset.)






I hoped that JMFS/dd_rescue's copy of 99.9985% of the 1TB was good enough, and that the last 0.0015% wasn't critical.



Tivoitis said:


> I'm not aware of anyone trying with a Tivo HD XL yet, so I'm curious how it goes with your attempt. I don't know if you'll need to use WinMFS to turn on supersize (it may already be set that way with the THDXL), but you should NOT try the JMFS supersize option (it appears to only work for Premiere drives). Good luck and let us know how it all turns out!


To answer your question, I followed your instructions in http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179, assuming they would apply to the TiVo HD XL. This included _not_ using JMFS to do the supersize, and _using_ WinMFS to do it. I plugged the drive in, and it worked.






(Using WinMFS to turn on supersize was weird. Select the drive. Turn on supersize. IIRC, it gives you a confirmation. But it doesn't seem like it does anything. I closed WinMFS. Put the 2TB in the TiVo. Well, it shows 318 hours of HD. I guess it did do something.)

I've been using the TiVo all day today, and it's been working great. It's even played programs perfectly, that before had caused the TiVo to reset when played from the sickly 1TB. Except in one case. I was playing a previously recorded program copied from the 1TB, and at the very end of a watching it, the TiVo hung and then reset. Shoot. Hmmm...was this from a glitch in the previous recorded program, or because of the 16MB that didn't get copied over???

I hope to gain confidence in the 2TB copy in the weeks to come.

If the 2TB gives me troubles--especially with newly recorded programs--I may run the Kickstarts to test and repair(?) the 2TB. Given that I've had one reset, I'm still a little weary of the health of the image on the 2TB given that 16MB of the 1TB did not copy.

Any thoughts are welcome. Anyone else been through this??? Anyone else as crazy as I am?


----------



## replaytv

Pardon me if this question has been all ready answered on this forum, or if I am posting this in the wrong place. I just joined and am learning the 'ropes'. And did look around for a while and didn't find any answer for this particular question.

I have over 20 Series 1 and 2 Tivos, and some of them have lifetime, but most don't. Can I move the hard drives from Tivo branded Series 2 Tivos from one to another so I can have all 80 gig drives in lifetime machines? Mostly the 80 gig drives are in Dual tuner models without lifetime. And I want to move them to single tuner machines. It is a shame to make the Dual tuner have a smaller hard drive, but there is not much demand for a Dual Tuner without lifetime.
I don't know anything about Linux or whatever you guys are talking about to work on a hard drive out of the Tivo box. I have moved one hard drive from a Tivo that was exactly like the one that I moved it to, and it works great. The one that I moved it to had lifetime and the hard drive had died.
I don't need a 1 terabit drive, or really anything bigger than 80 gig. I keep almost no shows, so I just delete right after watching, so no need for large hard drive.


----------



## Tivoitis

SoKal5366 said:


> I've been using the TiVo all day today, and it's been working great. It's even played programs perfectly, that before had caused the TiVo to reset when played from the sickly 1TB. Except in one case. I was playing a previously recorded program copied from the 1TB, and at the very end of a watching it, the TiVo hung and then reset. Shoot. Hmmm...was this from a glitch in the previous recorded program, or because of the 16MB that didn't get copied over???
> 
> Any thoughts are welcome. Anyone else been through this??? Anyone else as crazy as I am?


Well that looks pretty good to me. If the show that caused the reset isn't terribly important to you, I'd just delete it. What I did to gain more confidence in my THD's was to record shows on both tuners almost continually during the day (when I'd normally not be recording anything) until I completely filled the drive up and shows were beginning to be auto-deleted.


----------



## SoKal5366

Tivoitis said:


> Well that looks pretty good to me.


Thanks.



Tivoitis said:


> What I did to gain more confidence in my THD's was to record shows on both tuners almost continually during the day (when I'd normally not be recording anything) until I completely filled the drive up and shows were beginning to be auto-deleted.


I think that's a great idea for gaining confidence in a newly built drive. Thanks, Tivoitis!



Tivoitis said:


> Well that looks pretty good to me. If the show that caused the reset isn't terribly important to you, I'd just delete it.


Fortunately, that show wasn't important to me, so I deleted it right away.

Been using the new 2TB most of today, too, and no resets. Slowly building confidence....


----------



## skunkape

I followed this guide and was able to upgrade my tivohd with a 2tb drive. Thanks for all the info! I'm so happy to have a tivo that I can finally fully utilize. That 21 hour stuff was for the birds, Now I've got 318 hours!!! Woohoo!


----------



## alyssa

SoKal,
you may want to remove your Service Number from your post in the system information screen.
Glad it worked out & you were able to save your shows.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Easy way to do that--turn on suggestions and go into the thumbs up/down section and rate a bunch of shows.


----------



## peter888chan

Upgrade process worked just fine going from a 1TB WinMFS expanded drive to a 2TB Hitachi HDS5C3020ALA632 drive with these instructions. Hardest part was just waiting for all the data to get copied over. Didn't bother with the Supersize though.


----------



## defucius

My tivo HD is stuck on "please wait, powering up" now. Apparently, Tivo pushed an update last night. I suspect it has being powering up since then. Anybody else having the same problem?


----------



## Tivoitis

I've got 11.0k-01-2-652 on my two THD's now ... never even noticed that they had upgraded/rebooted. They seems to be operating just fine.


----------



## defucius

well, i just pull the plug on it (been pulling the tv plug trying to reboot the tivo earlier  and it finally boot up. But it lost all sound. doing a software reboot now.


----------



## defucius

another update: the soft-reboot failed, again, but hard reboot fixed the sound this time. I wonder if this update made it necessary to disable the IntelliPark on the WD green drives again.


----------



## richsadams

defucius said:


> I wonder if this update made it necessary to disable the IntelliPark on the WD green drives again.


I doubt it. If it had you probably would have never been able to boot up. Did you try another menu restart? If that fails, it's possible the Intellipark feature may need to be adjusted. When was your hard drive manufactured?

Over the years updates have caused a few TiVo's to hang, nothing unusual. The audio issue you encountered sounds more like an HDMI/HDCP handshake snag (also cured with reboots).

Glad to hear all is well. :up:


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Easiest way to fill up your drive is to leave TiVo Suggestions ON. Click a few thumbs up/down on what it records, and over time what it finds for you will be more to your liking. And the Suggestions folder is essentially "free space"--it's the first thing removed when a new (requested) recording is made.


----------



## Doit2it

I'm so happy I found this thread!

My TivoHD has been randomly rebooting more and more frequently. I ordered a WD20EARS from Amazon. A day later I had a reboot that got stuck on "please wait, powering up". I opened it up and, since it's only been open once for a 750Gb upgrade, it was full of dust. A few blasts of canned air, a mushroom cloud of dust, and a coughing fit later I put her back together and no reboots in the past 2 days. Never underestimate a good cleaning. Scaring the dust bunnies away fixed my issue. Of course I'm still doing the upgrade when my 2Tb drive arrives. 318 hours beats 116 every day.

Thanks to all who have pioneered the JMFS process for TivoHD.
I'll let you know how my upgrade goes when my drive arrives!


----------



## mattack

I realize this is somewhat off-topic, but the jmfs tools gives me the info that I need in another context, so I'll ask here.

jmfs doesn't work on Series 3s, and my previous Series 3 drive died, so I'm limping along with the orig drive (that is causing reboots, a major reason I upgraded a couple of years ago).

I want to do the upgrade booted from the mfstools upgrade CD.. on a Mac (I know this works). But how can I figure out which drive is which, in the linux booted from that CD?

jmfs tells me exactly the hard drive model #, so I can verify the sizes for source/destination before starting the copy. (e.g. my laptop drive is ST9100824AS)

How can I figure that out at the linux command line before doing an upgrade? I especially obviously want to avoid any other drives installed in the system?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mattack said:


> I realize this is somewhat off-topic, but the jmfs tools gives me the info that I need in another context, so I'll ask here.
> 
> jmfs doesn't work on Series 3s, and my previous Series 3 drive died, so I'm limping along with the orig drive (that is causing reboots, a major reason I upgraded a couple of years ago).
> 
> I want to do the upgrade booted from the mfstools upgrade CD.. on a Mac (I know this works). But how can I figure out which drive is which, in the linux booted from that CD?
> 
> jmfs tells me exactly the hard drive model #, so I can verify the sizes for source/destination before starting the copy. (e.g. my laptop drive is ST9100824AS)
> 
> How can I figure that out at the linux command line before doing an upgrade? I especially obviously want to avoid any other drives installed in the system?


I know, that's the cool thing about jmfs, isn't it.

I hope this helps--Hear's a quick linux tutorial at the mfstools boot CD:


fdisk -l # Lists all of the drives seen at boot, includes a list of partitions
dmesg # lists all boot messages
egrep # filters the output of what you "pipe" to it
 | # That's the pipe--it sends the output of the first command to the second command as its input

So, you run the fdisk -l. The TiVo drives all have a ton of partitions, the empty one should have none (unless you were using it for something like windows before this).

Another way to confirm it is:

dmesg | egrep "[hs]d"


That is, you run dmesg, and you "pipe" its output to egrep, egrep then shows you any lines that contain "hd" or "sd". The SATA drives are most likely "sda" through "sdc"--I included "hd" anyway--hose are IDE drives or maybe your CD drive.

Yet another way:

mfsinfo /dev/sda
mfsinfo /dev/sdb


The mfsinfo will show the TiVo information about a drive, to include how many hours storage.


----------



## bobby4919

I've read through this thread and others and I think I have a pretty good idea on what to do but just wanted to validate that these procedures will work for my situation:

Tivo HD with a 1TB Weaknees drive.
I want to upgrade to a 2tb drive and keep all of my existing shows.
Would also like the cablecard pairings to transfer to the new drive.

Will the procedures discussed above work in this situation?

Thanks.


----------



## retiredqwest

bobby4919 said:


> I've read through this thread and others and I think I have a pretty good idea on what to do but just wanted to validate that these procedures will work for my situation:
> 
> Tivo HD with a 1TB Weaknees drive.
> I want to upgrade to a 2tb drive and keep all of my existing shows.
> Would also like the cablecard pairings to transfer to the new drive.
> 
> Will the procedures discussed above work in this situation?
> 
> Thanks.


It will do a 100% COMPLETE disc copy..... what ever is on the source drive it will copy to the target drive.

You'll need 7-12 hrs to do this depending on what type of connection you use for the hard drives.....

If JMFS finds the Weaknees drive, it will copy it.


----------



## Doit2it

Done! Easy as pie, thanks to everyone here.

Upgraded from a dying WD 750Gb to the WD20EARS using the save settings method. The drive was dying. I know I said in an earlier post that a good dusting had fixed my reboot issue, but they resurfaced again. With both drives sitting idle this morning, the 750Gb surface temp was 108 degrees and the 2Tb was 93 degrees.

Copy took about 4.75 hours, based on my estimates (copied 158Gb in 1st hour). I was asleep at 3:15am when it probably finished.
Had both drives connected directly to my Dell 2.4Ghz Quad with 4Gb RAM

Expand took 5 to 10 seconds

Supersize had been done with WinMFS on the original drive and carried over to the new one, along with all my settings, recordings, etc.

I used hdparm -M to set AAM to 128

I left the idle setting alone. Can hdparm -S be used to set the Idle Timer?

Notes: The 1st reboot took a long time. After the Powering Up screen, black screen, then Powering Up again. Thought I was in a reboot loop. But I waited and it eventually went to the Few More Minutes screen and then I was watching Tivo guy jump around. I did a software reboot, and it went flawlessly.

*Thanks again to everyone in this thread that pioneered the process!*


----------



## JohnNButchNGunny

I've owned my TIVO HD (TCD652160) for just over 2 years now (2+ years of flawless operation), and have been researching upgrade options to a 2 TB drive for about the past year. My budget-driven goal was to spend about $100 for the drive, and while waiting for that price point I educated myself by reading hundreds of the great posts here. Until recently, the only path I saw to executing the upgrade (without going to a vendor) was to obtain a copy of elusive "Broflovski image" (reubanks graciously offered to provide this image). Up to this point, my only posts here were ones regarding this image.

When I read here about the amazing work by "Comer" (although focused on the Premiere) that was then proven (with a simple change) to support upgrading a TIVO HD to a 2TB drive, I rationalized exceeding my budget (by $14.99) and getting a Western Digital WD20EVDS from Amazon.com for $114.99.

I was ready and waiting to execute the following procedures with the downloaded software, my unused/hobby project Intel D945GCLF with 2 SATA ports, and a Torx toolkit:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8143047#post8143047

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8309405#post8309405

The full copy of the original 160 GB drive took less than 2 hours, and then just a few seconds for the "expand". As documented, the software reported that I now had 288 hours of recording space available. The "Supersize" with WINMFS then brought me up to 318 HD recording hours - the additional 30 GB increase being greater than the max of 21 hours reported by my TIVO HD for the stock, 160 GB drive.

After putting the new drive back in my TIVO HD and powering it up (it breezed flawless through the startup processes), I executed the system restart to ensure that my new Western Digital drive did not exhibit the "warm boot" issue requiring the use of "widdle" to change a firmware setting. My drive was manufactured after the date where the problem was supposedly resolved, but I wanted to double-check after reading the history here. Again, another smooth startup.

I put my original TIVO HD 160 GB drive in the anti-static bag and protective packaging from my new drive, taped it up, and put it in a safe place in the event my new drive should fail at some point. I may even swap them out every now and then to keep the system software up to date on the old drive.

Not only do I now have 318 hours of HD recording time, but all of the recordings I had on the original drive are on my new 2TB drive, as well (and with the same reference points from which to 'resume' playback).

To all of you Tivo HD users: unless your are in the difficult position of having a drive crash/failure, there is NO reason to search for an image to upgrade your hard drive to 2TB. The tools and procedures created by "Comer" worked FLAWLESSLY for me (and for others as is documented in this forum).

I'm so happy that when I'm sent on the road now for 3+ weeks at a time, I won't have to be "surprised" by the decisions TIVO has made when it doesn't have enough disk space to record my defined "Season Pass" items. Tivo is performing as designed and documented, but sometimes I might be more in the mood for the latest episode of "The Big Bang Theory" over "Modern Family". If only TIVO could figure that out... <g>

I cannot thank "Comer" and everyone else here enough for both the education you have provided, and your hard work in developing software tools and documented procedures for drive upgrades. I could not be happier with the end result.

THANKS!! -- John


----------



## richsadams

Doit2it said:


> Done! Easy as pie, thanks to everyone here.


That initial boot up is a real nail biter for sure! (A lot of housekeeping going on in the background.)

If TiVo booted up okay and will reboot from a menu restart you don't need to adjust the Intellipark (Idle timer) setting.

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

JohnNButchNGunny said:


> I've owned my TIVO HD (TCD652160) for just over 2 years now (2+ years of flawless operation), and have been researching upgrade options to a 2 TB drive for about the past year. <snip>


Hi John, thanks for all of the details, nice work. :up:

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## bobby4919

well... not so good success. My goal was to upgrade a 1TB Weaknees upgraded drive to 2tb (in a TivoHD) while saving all my shows and settings.

Ran:
1) jmfs to copy the drive
2) jmfs to expand it
3) winmfs to supersize it

On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive. Half of what it should be?

Did I do something wrong? Or is it maybe because Weaknees expanded the drive originally in an unconventional way.

Any ideas/help would be appreciated.


----------



## Doit2it

I've also noticed my menus are faster. If I change the position or delete a Season Pass (I have 50) it used to take 20 to 35 seconds of "Wait time", now it only takes about 5 to 9 seconds.

Is it just a newer, faster drive (WD20EARS, same spindle speed thou) or the fact that the old one was apparently failing? Or does fragmentation occur over the life of the drive?

Also, can I use the old drive in a Windows system? Is the Linux/Tivo OS that finicky when it comes to drive performance? Or is it best just trashing my WD7500AAKS drive. Or was that WD model the issue?

Addendum: I hooked up the drive and ran HDDScan. The S.M.A.R.T. test shows UltraDMA CRC Errors on the drive.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just curious.


----------



## richsadams

Doit2it said:


> I've also noticed my menus are faster. If I change the position or delete a Season Pass (I have 50) it used to take 20 to 35 seconds of "Wait time", now it only takes about 5 to 9 seconds.
> 
> Is it just a newer, faster drive (WD20EARS, same spindle speed thou) or the fact that the old one was apparently failing? Or does fragmentation occur over the life of the drive?
> 
> Also, can I use the old drive in a Windows system? Is the Linux/Tivo OS that finicky when it comes to drive performance? Or is it best just trashing my WD7500AAKS drive. Or was that WD model the issue?
> 
> Addendum: I hooked up the drive and ran HDDScan. The S.M.A.R.T. test shows UltraDMA CRC Errors on the drive.
> 
> Sorry for the barrage of questions, just curious.


It sounds like your 750GB drive isn't to be trusted. Those drives have a 3 year warranty. perhaps you can get an RMA from WD? Hopefully you have the original TiVo drive on the shelf.

The housekeeping question is a good one...however I've never noticed much of a difference between drives with respect to updating SP's, etc. Actually your old drive was faster so in theory going to a GP drive would slow things down, but again, I've never seen much difference either way.

Some adjustments just seem faster than others and I think that depends on the number of updates that have to be made plus the communications with TiVo's servers. In other words, shows that have a lot of data (many scheduled recordings) tend to take longer to move, delete, etc. than those that have a smaller amount of files. I'm sure how the changes affect other recordings, where each is with respect to priority and other considerations have an impact as well. However if it's working faster...that's always a good thing. :up:


----------



## retiredqwest

bobby4919 said:


> well... not so good success. My goal was to upgrade a 1TB Weaknees upgraded drive to 2tb (in a TivoHD) while saving all my shows and settings.
> 
> Ran:
> 1) jmfs to copy the drive
> 2) jmfs to expand it
> 3) winmfs to supersize it
> 
> On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive. Half of what it should be?
> 
> Did I do something wrong? Or is it maybe because Weaknees expanded the drive originally in an unconventional way.
> 
> Any ideas/help would be appreciated.


I can't see where you did something wrong. I would assume Weaknees set up the drive in some unconventional way or some way so one could not copy and expand to a larger drive.

I am curious if you are willing to do this. Run WIMMFS on the Weeknees drive and under View and click on the Msinfo function. Save the results and upload it this thread or PM it to me.

I'll do some testing with JMFS and WINMFS to see what if any differences in the way they write the partitions on the THD.


----------



## bobby4919

Here's how the Weaknees 1tb is formatted:

Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951652864

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=9239cb5b logstamp=14460519 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=532480 checksum=f0500485 logstamp=14530307 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=58488 checksum=7adb55f0 logstamp=14530328 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b67c259b logstamp=14460519 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=1024000 checksum=644183ce logstamp=14530307 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728705 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=310729693
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=290288 checksum=dea4c07b logstamp=14530324 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728705 map_size=34 backup_map_start=310729693
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=-6148914691236517206
zone_first=310729728 zone_last=1951652863 zone_size=1640923136 min(chunk)=32768
free=5570560 checksum=a1227be4 logstamp=14530328 num_bitmap=17

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 127.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS Second MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS Second MFS media region [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS New MFS Application [email protected] ( 512.0K)
15 MFS New MFS Media [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 11.2M)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 0 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


----------



## retiredqwest

bobby4919 said:


> Here's how the Weaknees 1tb is formatted:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 127.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS Second MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS Second MFS media region [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS New MFS Application [email protected] ( 512.0K)
> 15 MFS New MFS Media [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 11.2M)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 0 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


As per the PM I sent you and for the rest. It appears that partition 16 is hosing the expand using JMFS.

JMFS ALWAYS will write a new partition and in this case the THD saw it as the external drive and when you divorced them. It reverted back to the 1TB total.

From what I've been reading that Apple_Free is not used by the Tivo and probably can be deleted..... I just don't know how.

I just found this on MFSlive FAQ:

How many times can I expand using mfstools?
To answer this questions, we need to know how tivo drive is organized.
Tivo drive can have up to 16 partitions per drive.

"A" drive
Partition 1 - Modified Apple Partition Map
Partition 2 - Bootstrap 1
Partition 3 - Kernel 1
Partition 4 - Root 1
Partition 5 - Bootstrap 2
Partition 6 - Kernel 2
Partition 7 - Root 2
Partition 8 - Linux Swap
Partition 9 - /var
Partition 10 - mfs application region 1
Partition 11 - mfs media region 1
Partition 12 - mfs application region 2
Partition 13 - mfs media region 2
Partition 14 - mfs application region 3
Partition 15 - mfs media region 3
Partition 16 - Apple free

So, JMFS will not work on a drive that already has 16 partitions.


----------



## unitron

retiredqwest said:


> As per the PM I sent you and for the rest. It appears that partition 16 is hosing the expand using JMFS.
> 
> JMFS ALWAYS will write a new partition and in this case the THD saw it as the external drive and when you divorced them. It reverted back to the 1TB total.
> 
> From what I've been reading that Apple_Free is not used by the Tivo and probably can be deleted..... I just don't know how.
> 
> I just found this on MFSlive FAQ:
> 
> How many times can I expand using mfstools?
> To answer this questions, we need to know how tivo drive is organized.
> Tivo drive can have up to 16 partitions per drive.
> 
> "A" drive
> Partition 1 - Modified Apple Partition Map
> Partition 2 - Bootstrap 1
> Partition 3 - Kernel 1
> Partition 4 - Root 1
> Partition 5 - Bootstrap 2
> Partition 6 - Kernel 2
> Partition 7 - Root 2
> Partition 8 - Linux Swap
> Partition 9 - /var
> Partition 10 - mfs application region 1
> Partition 11 - mfs media region 1
> Partition 12 - mfs application region 2
> Partition 13 - mfs media region 2
> Partition 14 - mfs application region 3
> Partition 15 - mfs media region 3
> Partition 16 - Apple free
> 
> So, JMFS will not work on a drive that already has 16 partitions.


Apple_Free isn't really a partition, it's what unpartitioned space gets called when the Apple_Partition_Map is used.

If you delete it, it'll be back again next restart of the drive.


----------



## retiredqwest

unitron said:


> Apple_Free isn't really a partition, it's what unpartitioned space gets called when the Apple_Partition_Map is used.
> 
> If you delete it, it'll be back again next restart of the drive.


The Stock THD Drives doesn't have it...

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)

Total SA SD Hours: 165	Total DTV SD Hours: 144 56 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


----------



## unitron

retiredqwest said:


> The Stock THD Drives doesn't have it...
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap 262[email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 165	Total DTV SD Hours: 144 56 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


Perhaps they figured out how not to leave any unpartitioned space, since Apple_Free is what they call the unpartitioned leftovers at the end of the drive.

This may very well not be a magic feature of the Apple Partition Map scheme, but rather the interpretation the pdisk command puts on unpartitioned space.

It would be interesting to move some Tivo partitions around so that the unused space is somewhere in the middle instead of the end and see if it comes up with the same self-restoring name.


----------



## retiredqwest

unitron said:


> Perhaps they figured out how not to leave any unpartitioned space, since Apple_Free is what they call the unpartitioned leftovers at the end of the drive.
> 
> This may very well not be a magic feature of the Apple Partition Map scheme, but rather the interpretation the pdisk command puts on unpartitioned space.
> 
> It would be interesting to move some Tivo partitions around so that the unused space is somewhere in the middle instead of the end and see if it comes up with the same self-restoring name.


Is it possible that was a S3 and older way of doing the partitions?

FYI, the TP doesn't have an Apple_Free entry either.


----------



## unitron

retiredqwest said:


> Is it possible that was a S3 and older way of doing the partitions?
> 
> FYI, the TP doesn't have an Apple_Free entry either.


Apple_Free is the name given to unpartitioned space. If there is no unpartitioned space, there won't be an entry in the Partition Map that'll get the Apple_Free label.

Partitioning is apparently an arcane art that involves choosing between cylinder bounderies or MB boundries or unaligned, and cluster sizes, and other confusing stuff, so sometimes there's some slack at the end, and sometimes there's not.


----------



## retiredqwest

Carrying on...

When I did all of my previous testing of JMFS it was using REV .86, so thought it was time to see what happens with REV 1.04 on the THD.

I have done several Copy & Expand on various sizes of drives. Kinda sad I have that many spare drives....

I went from the stock 160G to a 200G, then from the 200G to a 320G and then from the 320G to a 500G.

by now I had 16 partitions and all of the above drives booted up in the THD with no burps.


This is the partition map for the 500G:
Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var  [email protected]3247160 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected] ( 37.3G)
15 MFS MFS media region 4 [email protected] ( 111.8G)
16 MFS MFS media region 5 [email protected] ( 167.7G)

Total SA SD Hours: 519	Total DTV SD Hours: 453 86 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


So I did the next obvious step of going from the 500G to a 2TB.

Here is that partition map before I powered it up in the THD:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected] ( 37.3G)
15 MFS MFS media region 4 [email protected] ( 111.8G)
16 MFS MFS media region 5 [email protected] ( 167.7G)
17 MFS MFS media region 6 [email protected] ( 1.4T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 97 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

The THD powered up and gave me the can't find the external drive screen, so I let it divorce that partition. After which it booted up like it should.

And here is the after partition map now:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12  MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected] ( 37.3G)
15 MFS MFS media region 4 [email protected] ( 111.8G)
16 MFS MFS media region 5 [email protected] ( 167.7G)
17 MFS MFS media region 6 [email protected] ( 1.4T)

Total SA SD Hours: 519	Total DTV SD Hours: 453 86 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

Interesting it did not delete #17, but the % free space went back to 86% the same as the 500G.

It appears that the THD will truly only work with 16 partitions. And that JMFS will copy & expand as long as one keeps it under 17 partitions.


Here is partition map for a 1tb created by WIMMFS to a 2tb created by JMFS:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 96 % Free
Software: 11.0j-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

When WINMFS expands the drive it creates 2 partitions. If one was to try to copy & expand this drive once more, it would probably see that as an external drive and stop at that point.

Hopefully the above will explain why WINMFS/JMFS can/can't copy & expand a drive.

of course, if someone wants to prove me wrong......


----------



## nooneuknow

retiredquest: I'm not at all disagreeing with you, and my intent is not to degrade all the effort you put into your testing and reporting your findings. I'm just going to report what I know, as an adjunct to what you have posted.
----
I've done the same testing, with the exception of not ever using JMFS Rev .86. I have only used JMFS Rev 1.04.

I was going to post a similar post to yours a while back, but most of the info regarding WinMFS and TiVo partition limits has already been covered in this forum, as well as the MFS Live Forums (as well as several other forums).

I had to do my research due to the 1.26TB limit when using WinMFS on a TiVo HD with a 2TB drive, combined with my HD units only lasting for about three months after installing the "Broflovski Image" (after updating to most recent TiVo software release).

What would happen was that the tables would build up inode entries that exceeded the maximum set (not sure how they were set, or by what means).

This would cause the GSOD reboot loop (which you can not recover from, and lose everything, since re-imaging is required) if you used KickStart commands 57, 58, or 52, or sometimes even just upon rebooting the TiVo (especially if doing a "hard", power cord-pull, reboot). I used a Hex Editor from a forensics utility to read the drive sector-by-sector, in raw mode, seeking out the system logs.

The logs revealed multiple tables with excess entries, and logged the successful removal of excess entries in some tables, but then one would pop an "unable to repair" log entry. Which would flag the drive as having an error, initiate reboot, and run the equivalent of a KickStart 57 at boot time.

The GSOD would then appear, but only for a few minutes, followed by a reboot, then another GSOD, repeating to infinity (I let it run in GSOD loop mode for a full 24 hours). Again, using the hex editor, I examined the system logs, and it was repeatedly trying and failing to reduce the number of table entries to within the max limit.

I then would run every hard drive diagnostic I had, including the mfg (WD) tools, and find that the drive had no errors. Then, I would wipe the drive and do destructive writing tests, reading tests, and read/write pattern/random/max seek tests. All reported no problems and performance well within the drive specs. Image again, repeat the above steps, three months later, try doing a reboot only, then KS 57, 58, and/or 52. Same GSOD loop result...

What I did to upgrade to 2TB was to take a stock, never booted, THD drive, re-install it in the TiVo HD, let it update to 11.0j (now would be 11.0k), then run all the KS commands as before, do a C&DE, pull the power at reboot, then use JMFS 1.04 to copy & expand to the 2TB drive, then WinMFS to supersize. Voila! No more problems.

I suspect that it may have helped, that, as of TiVo HD software release 11.0h, TiVo added support for larger external drives, which I think resulted in the tables getting either a higher max inode entry limit, or otherwise somehow resulting in excess entries being trimmed down without a failure while doing so. The "Broflovski Image" has software version 11.0d. Perhaps the structure of that image (which is a TiVo HD XL image that has been gutted to the point of requiring a repair operation upon the fist boot-up), may be the source of the "excess inodes/table" problem.

Now that my HD units are running normally, I don't want to pull the drives to examine the logs (not yet, anyway).

So, I'm fully agreeing with you on the 16 partition limit, as well as that you can just keep adding partitions with each drive size upgrade, until you hit 16.

The ONLY thing that concerns me a bit, regarding how JMFS sets up partitions, is that JMFS doesn't add in pairs. The author of WinMFS felt that the "two partition sandwich", which I forget which other TiVo partition is in the middle of the sandwich, is the way it should be. His refusal to allow just adding one partition could not be swayed for years, and still remains so. His reasons included that doing it any other way was not "optimized" for best drive performance & TiVo performance, as well as breaking backwards compatibility with other versions of his software.

I will say that it does seem that my TiVo HDs are slower in the menus, take longer to index Guide Cache, and slow down more when recording than I recall them being when I used WinMFS (with it's "optimized partition structure") and limited the drive to 1.26TB. But, it's a small price to pay to upgrade to a full 2TB, and not encounter the problems I did with the "Broflovski Image".

On the flip-side, JMFS 1.04 does things the same way with TiVo Premieres, adding just one huge partition, and my four 2TB Premieres run way faster than they did with stock drives (I almost never see the "green circle of please wait", unless my broadband speed is lagging, as opposed to seeing it with every menu screen change and every page-up/page-down in the NPL).

The only thing that irks me, otherwise, is that there are people who post that the "Broflovski Image" gives them no problems. I experienced problems using it on four TiVo HDs (two are now retired for spare parts, or perhaps to be sold on e*). I just don't understand how that can be. Two of my HD units are 1st generation revisions, while the other two are most recent generation revision units. It's not that others report differently that bugs me, it's wondering why I have problems, and they don't. Perhaps there are factors in play that only affect me (and maybe others who just don't post about it)...

I think I covered everything. Anybody, feel free to chime in.

Quoted portion snipped to save space:



retiredqwest said:


> Carrying on...
> 
> When I did all of my previous testing of JMFS it was using REV .86, so thought it was time to see what happens with REV 1.04 on the THD.
> 
> I have done several Copy & Expand on various sizes of drives. Kinda sad I have that many spare drives....
> 
> I went from the stock 160G to a 200G, then from the 200G to a 320G and then from the 320G to a 500G.
> 
> by now I had 16 partitions and all of the above drives booted up in the THD with no burps.
> 
> When WINMFS expands the drive it creates 2 partitions. If one was to try to copy & expand this drive once more, it would probably see that as an external drive and stop at that point.
> 
> Hopefully the above will explain why WINMFS/JMFS can/can't copy & expand a drive.
> 
> of course, if someone wants to prove me wrong......


----------



## macmike12

Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?

macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com

Thanks for any help.


----------



## richsadams

macmike12 said:


> Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?
> 
> macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com
> 
> Thanks for any help.


Welcome to the forum. I saw your duplicate post on another thread. I'm not sure about HDClone, but the free Linux program dd or dd_rescue will clone a drive bit-for-bit, however I'm not clear about what you want to do. It sounds like you want to upgrade a TiVo, but I'm not sure which model exactly or why you want to clone a TiVo drive. There are a lot of knowledgable and helpful folks here that can guide you, but more info would be welcome.


----------



## unitron

macmike12 said:


> Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?
> 
> macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com
> 
> Thanks for any help.


Since you've posted this question in 2 different threads (and eagle-eye Rich spotted both), I'm going to go all counter-intuitive on you and suggest you post it a third time, but this time in a brand new thread of its own, in either the TiVo Help Center or the Tivo Upgrade Center.

Tell us exactly which TiVo model you're asking about, the model (brand, size, model number) of the drive you want to copy and the brand, size, model number of the drive to which you want to copy, and, most importantly, *why* you want to do this. Tell us what your end goal is, and we'll help you figure out how best to get there.

In other words


----------



## mdp

I just registered to post the success of upgrade. I followed the steps in the first post and upgraded my Tivo HD with 2 tb drive. The drive I used is WD20EADS. Thanks for nice summary and steps.


----------



## richsadams

mdp said:


> I just registered to post the success of upgrade. I followed the steps in the first post and upgraded my Tivo HD with 2 tb drive. The drive I used is WD20EADS. Thanks for nice summary and steps.


Congrats and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## suggest THIS

bobby4919 said:


> well... not so good success. My goal was to upgrade a 1TB Weaknees upgraded drive to 2tb (in a TivoHD) while saving all my shows and settings.
> 
> Ran:
> 1) jmfs to copy the drive
> 2) jmfs to expand it
> 3) winmfs to supersize it
> 
> On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive. Half of what it should be?
> 
> Did I do something wrong? Or is it maybe because Weaknees expanded the drive originally in an unconventional way.
> 
> Any ideas/help would be appreciated.


I had exactly the same result, except I copied a drive that I used WinMFS to make. Disappointing result, but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?


----------



## richsadams

suggest THIS said:


> but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?


Absolutely. :up:


----------



## retiredqwest

suggest THIS said:


> I had exactly the same result, except I copied a drive that I used WinMFS to make. Disappointing result, but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?


Myself and several others have copied & expanded a WINMFS drive using JMFS. In fact just tried it again over the past weekend. Did a 1TB to a 2TB.

Don't know what you did nor what "disappointing result" means.

Did you read the first post in this thread?


----------



## suggest THIS

retiredqwest said:


> Don't know what you did nor what "disappointing result" means.
> 
> Did you read the first post in this thread?


Thanks for replying. I did the same procedure that bobby4919 
desribed in the text I quoted:
_
Ran:
1) jmfs to copy the drive
2) jmfs to expand it
3) winmfs to supersize it_

And I got the same results he did:

_On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive._

I followed the directions in the first post, under "Updated 2/11/2011."

I think the problem may be that my source drive is a copy-of-a-copy.


----------



## retiredqwest

suggest THIS said:


> Thanks for replying. I did the same procedure that bobby4919
> desribed in the text I quoted:
> _
> Ran:
> 1) jmfs to copy the drive
> 2) jmfs to expand it
> 3) winmfs to supersize it_
> 
> And I got the same results he did:
> 
> _On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive._
> 
> I followed the directions in the first post, under "Updated 2/11/2011."
> 
> I think the problem may be that my source drive is a copy-of-a-copy.


The problem is you probably have 16 partitions defined on the drive. JMFS ALWAYS adds a new partition so #17 is seen as an external and THD won't go any further.

You will have to use the stock drive as the source.

You can verify this using WINMFS and under the MSINFO is a tab that says partition info. The stock drive should have 13 partitions. The copy of a copy drive it probably already has 16 partitions.

I would be curious as what you find.....


----------



## suggest THIS

retiredqwest said:


> The problem is you probably have 16 partitions defined on the drive. JMFS ALWAYS adds a new partition so #17 is seen as an external and THD won't go any further.
> 
> You will have to use the stock drive as the source.
> 
> You can verify this using WINMFS and under the MSINFO is a tab that says partition info. The stock drive should have 13 partitions. The copy of a copy drive it probably already has 16 partitions.
> 
> I would be curious as what you find.....


As Ed said to Johnny, you are correct, sir!

*My virgin drive:*

Mfsinfo (Drive 5)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=310728704

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=baeca436 logstamp=16044 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=133222400 checksum=a834afd6 logstamp=16073 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=259128 checksum=2561b06a logstamp=16073 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=700f559a logstamp=16044 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=166871040 checksum=28929678 logstamp=16073 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=-6148914691236517206
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=319968 checksum=8eaf3e04 logstamp=16044 num_bitmap=17

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)

Total SA SD Hours: 165	Total DTV SD Hours: 144 97 % Free
Software: 8.1.7c2-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

*And the 1 TB drive from which I upgraded to 2TB*:

Mfsinfo (Drive 5)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=28fda873 logstamp=7469630 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=2928640 checksum=76ea276a logstamp=7497632 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=71080 checksum=12518a4f logstamp=7497652 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=cb846b3 logstamp=7469630 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=4546560 checksum=567ca3ff logstamp=7497545 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=312240 checksum=6e2004a7 logstamp=7497584 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
free=23183360 checksum=9c0b2c0c logstamp=7497632 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 2 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

So, I think I'll leave it at that. I can live with 1TB of storage, especially if the alternative is to try dealing with Comcast to get their CableCARD paired to my TiVo again.

Thanks for all of your help! I consider this effort a practice run for upgrading my daughters' Premiere TiVos when the time comes!


----------



## retiredqwest

suggest THIS said:


> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 2 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
> 
> So, I think I'll leave it at that. I can live with 1TB of storage, especially if the alternative is to try dealing with Comcast to get their CableCARD paired to my TiVo again.
> 
> Thanks for all of your help! I consider this effort a practice run for upgrading my daughters' Premiere TiVos when the time comes!


That dam* Apple_Free Extra shows as a partition.

You didn't pair the Tivo using the stock drive?? Shame on you....

Depending on where you are located it could be easy or a royal pain. Last time I did it took CC 5 minutes and it worked first try. Course it helps that I now know what to look for on the Cable Card screens in the THD.


----------



## deathpulse

Happy to report that I was able to upgrade my Tivo HD "regular" model (not XL) from a previously upgraded 1TB drive to a nice new 2TB drive!!!!! I now have 318 hours of HD recording!!!!! Thanks everyone .


----------



## rxrepli

I was able to successfully upgrade a TiVo HD using a 2TB WD20EVDS (Build Date 11/04/2010) following the instructions listed in the first post of this thread.

I placed the original 160GB TiVo hard drive in the unit and allowed it to update to 11.0k. I then did a Clear & Delete Everything. I used JMFS 1.04 to both copy and expand the 2TB drive, then I used WinMFS to supersize it, giving me 318 hours of HD recording space.

The whole process was very smooth and a big thanks to all who contributed here, especially comer. I DID NOT run wdidle3 on the WD20EVDS. The drive booted up properly upon re-installation, and is able to soft reboot with no issues or hang-ups.


----------



## sungko

Reporting success here as well using jmfs to copy a 160GB drive to a 2TB WD20EARS. 

After it copied for 2 hours. I ran winmfs to supersize it. Also the copying time allowed me to blow out the dust bunnies. Used HDDScan to set the AAM to 128. 

So far, so good


----------



## SoKal5366

alyssa said:


> you may want to remove your Service Number from your post


Oops. Thanks alyssa. (It's been too long since I've checked back in.)


----------



## WO312

First off, thanks to all for this thread. I have a Tivo HD with a 1 TB drive that had been upgraded using winmfs with supersize. Using this tool, I was able to upgrade to a 2 TB WD with no problems. Did not have to re-supersize to get the 318 HD hours.

However, since then, I get a message once a week that my program info is about to run out. I don't remember exactly when I did the upgrade, but it was about the first week of April. About Wed. Apr 13, I got a message that my program info only went to Wed. Apr 20. However, the info is all there, the To Do list goes out almost 2 weeks - all appears fine. I did a soft reboot and the message went away. However, this past Wed. the message popped up again saying the data would run out on Wed. Apr. 27. However, once again, all is well when I look.

I don't want to have to reboot once a week. Any ideas on how to fix this? I am assuming it is related to the upgrade because I have had zero issues before now. But yet I can't believe it really is caused by the upgrade.

Additional info: I had to have the cable card re-paired after the upgrade. Also, I have TWC with a tuning adapter, if that means anything. It is working fine.


----------



## richsadams

WO312 said:


> First off, thanks to all for this thread. I have a Tivo HD with a 1 TB drive that had been upgraded using winmfs with supersize. Using this tool, I was able to upgrade to a 2 TB WD with no problems. Did not have to re-supersize to get the 318 HD hours.
> 
> However, since then, I get a message once a week that my program info is about to run out. I don't remember exactly when I did the upgrade, but it was about the first week of April. About Wed. Apr 13, I got a message that my program info only went to Wed. Apr 20. However, the info is all there, the To Do list goes out almost 2 weeks - all appears fine. I did a soft reboot and the message went away. However, this past Wed. the message popped up again saying the data would run out on Wed. Apr. 27. However, once again, all is well when I look.
> 
> I don't want to have to reboot once a week. Any ideas on how to fix this? I am assuming it is related to the upgrade because I have had zero issues before now. But yet I can't believe it really is caused by the upgrade.
> 
> Additional info: I had to have the cable card re-paired after the upgrade. Also, I have TWC with a tuning adapter, if that means anything. It is working fine.


I don't think the error message has anything to do with the upgrade. I've seen others complain about the same thing on other threads. My WAG is that it has something to do with your tuning adapter/setup. You might do a bit of searching and if you can't find something similar go ahead and post in the appropriate thread. Let us know how it goes though!


----------



## WO312

richsadams said:


> I don't think the error message has anything to do with the upgrade. I've seen others complain about the same thing on other threads. My WAG is that it has something to do with your tuning adapter/setup. You might do a bit of searching and if you can't find something similar go ahead and post in the appropriate thread. Let us know how it goes though!


Yes, I am skeptical it has anything to do with the upgrade.

I found a reference to just let the Tivo pass the day that it says it will run out of data and the message clears. I was thinking of doing this anyway, so that's what I will do for now.

If I can remember that far, I will post the results.


----------



## KrustyVT

I've been fighting an "upgrade" battle over the last few days, with an interesting result after I finally got the process finished last night.

*Setup* - TiVoHD with 160 gig stock drive, and 500 gig MyDVR Expander attached.
*Symptoms* - Turn on TV to find TiVo "frozen" on live tv. Changing channels would fix this issue. Some recordings were truncated, or randomly stopped recording.
*Upgrade Method* - After reading about the success of upgrading a TiVoHD with a 2TB drive using the JMFS method, I purchased a WD20EARS.

What I thought would be a simple process quickly got more complex - as the first step of the upgrade, I attempted to divorce the attached Expander from the TiVo. No dice - each time I confirmed the divorce, it thought about it for a few seconds, rebooted, and came back to the divorce screen. A quick search showed that this is certainly not an uncommon issue. Thanks for corrupting my stock drive, WD Expander! Forced kickstarts, GSOD's, whatever I could do - I could not fix the reboot loop.

I purchased InstantCake, and attempted to bake the image onto my stock 160gig drive - no go, it reports the drive is too small. The only other SATA drives I have are large ones - the 2TB I purchased for the TiVo upgrade, and a bunch of other 2TB drives intended for storage. I decided to temporarily use one of the spare 2TB's as a piece in the upgrade process, and I baked the IC 9.2 image onto a 2TB drive.

Booted up the TiVo, it recognized 20 hours, and I forced a few connections until the latest software came down. Now I have a 2TB drive, running 11-xx-k software, with 20 hours recognized. Time to move on!

As a long shot, I tried to immediately use the "Expand" option in JMFS - no go, generic "can't complete" error. I connect the new 2TB drive that is the intended final upgrade drive, and run a copy. The next day, that completes. Again, I try to expand - sorry, the "Expand" option can't complete.

I then use WinMFS to make a [truncated] backup of the image on the 2TB drive, and then restore the backup right back to the drive again. It asks if I want to expand, I say no. Reboot, load JMFS - sorry, can't expand. I repeat the process except this time I choose "yes" for expansion, and select the option to keep it under 1TB. Reboot, reload JMFS - sorry, can't expand.

(Side note, I checked the partitions - before attempting the expand operation with JMFS, there were 15 partitions on the 2TB drive)

On a chance, I then re-load WinMFS, redo the restore again, and at the end choose the option to expand, and then I select the option to fully expand, past the 1TB mark. I then Supersize with WinMFS. Disconnect the drive, pop back into the TiVo, let's see what happens - it boots! 318 hours of HD recording is recognized.

At the end of the day, I have a 2TB drive that JMFS has apparently never successfully expanded - the only successful operations were run using WinMFS. The TiVoHD recognizes 318 HD hours, and seems to be working perfectly fine.

The WD20EARS drive, manufactured in April, 2011 did require that I run wdidle3.exe to disable the timer (/D) - otherwise, soft boots would hang. I did not have to adjust the AAM, as it was already set at 128.

Food for thought ...


----------



## hansendc

retiredqwest said:


> Myself and several others have copied & expanded a WINMFS drive using JMFS. In fact just tried it again over the past weekend. Did a 1TB to a 2TB.


It seems that there are folks who have had some success expanding those 1TB drives, like KenVa.

But, that seems to imply that those 1TB, WinMFS-expanded drives only had 13 partitions. Do you have any idea how some folks ended up with 1TB drives and only 13 partitions?

I did a copy of a WinMFS-expanded 1TB drive to a new 2TB one, but ended up at the external storage divorce screen on first boot, and verified that JMFS had added a 17th partition. I take it that if you see the divorce screen, you've lost and the upgrade failed.


----------



## Tivoitis

KrustyVT said:


> On a chance, I then re-load WinMFS, redo the restore again, and at the end choose the option to expand, and then I select the option to fully expand, past the 1TB mark. I then Supersize with WinMFS. Disconnect the drive, pop back into the TiVo, let's see what happens - it boots! 318 hours of HD recording is recognized.
> 
> At the end of the day, I have a 2TB drive that JMFS has apparently never successfully expanded - the only successful operations were run using WinMFS. The TiVoHD recognizes 318 HD hours, and seems to be working perfectly fine.


Now that's interesting ... and it looks like I never gave this particular set of steps a try during my experimenting. Just to clarify, can you confirm that you did a WinMFS truncated backup of the current version of software, and then restored from the truncated backup to a 2TB drive, then used WinMFS to both fully expand (beyond the 1TB mark) and also to turn on the Supersize? And this resulted in a 318 hour THD? In any case, congrats on the success and thanks for the new experimentation!


----------



## retiredqwest

hansendc said:


> It seems that there are folks who have had some success expanding those 1TB drives, like KenVa.
> 
> But, that seems to imply that those 1TB, WinMFS-expanded drives only had 13 partitions. Do you have any idea how some folks ended up with 1TB drives and only 13 partitions?
> 
> I did a copy of a WinMFS-expanded 1TB drive to a new 2TB one, but ended up at the external storage divorce screen on first boot, and verified that JMFS had added a 17th partition. I take it that if you see the divorce screen, you've lost and the upgrade failed.


Here is the partition map from the stock 160G THD:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2  Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)

This is the partition map using WINMFS from the 160G to a 1TB:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)

And finally a WINFMS 1TB to a JMFS 2TB:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15  MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)

JMFS only adds one partition, never 2. So I must assume that your 1TB drive had 16 partitions.

And I have no idea nor believe an expanded drive could only have 13 partitions.


----------



## unitron

retiredqwest said:


> ...
> 
> And I have no idea nor believe an expanded drive could only have 13 partitions.


Only if the original had only had 11.


----------



## KrustyVT

Tivoitis said:


> Now that's interesting ... and it looks like I never gave this particular set of steps a try during my experimenting. Just to clarify, can you confirm that you did a WinMFS truncated backup of the current version of software, and then restored from the truncated backup to a 2TB drive, then used WinMFS to both fully expand (beyond the 1TB mark) and also to turn on the Supersize? And this resulted in a 318 hour THD? In any case, congrats on the success and thanks for the new experimentation!


Exactly right - I baked a fresh IC 9.x image, booted the TiVoHD and allowed it to update to 11.x.k, ran a WinMFS truncated backup, restored that backup right back to the 2TB drive, and allowed it to expand past the 1TB mark at the end of the operation. I then Supersized, removed the drive, reinstalled in the TiVoHD, and I'm running now with 318 available HD hours.


----------



## jblaschk

Another successful THD upgraded from 1TB to 2TB using JFMS 1.04. I just used the copy then expand, 1TB was already supersized when I went from 160GB to 1TB. JFMS reported 288HD hrs but after installing back into THD settings info reports 318HD hrs. Took about 8 hrs for the copy operation, no errors were reported. I had no problems with partitions, etc. Successfully booted the first time after reinstalling in THD. Went with the hitachi 2TB coolspin after having great reliability with the 1TB hitachi. The coolspin is much quieter than the 1TB which was 7200 rpm. I am really pleased with this upgrade. Thanks to comer and the earlier posters for leading the way. I am making a paypal donation to comer right after posting this, GREAT JOB on the JFMS 1.04 coding!


----------



## dwit

jblaschk said:


> Another successful THD upgraded from 1TB to 2TB using JFMS 1.04. I just used the copy then expand, 1TB was already supersized when I went from 160GB to 1TB. JFMS reported 288HD hrs but after installing back into THD settings info reports 318HD hrs. Took about 8 hrs for the copy operation, no errors were reported. I had no problems with partitions, etc. Successfully booted the first time after reinstalling in THD. Went with the hitachi 2TB coolspin after having great reliability with the 1TB hitachi. The coolspin is much quieter than the 1TB which was 7200 rpm. I am really pleased with this upgrade. Thanks to comer and the earlier posters for leading the way. I am making a paypal donation to comer right after posting this, GREAT JOB on the JFMS 1.04 coding!


I just bought the Hitachi 2 TB coolspin also, and mainly for the same reason as you. I have been awfully pleased the 1TB 7200 in my Tivo HD for 3.5 years. After having some recent issues("external drive not detected") most probably related to the additional 1 TB external set up(Antec mx1 + WDGP) I bought the 2 TB Hitachi as a backup(along with a Premiere that I will probably not activate after all).

I have not really done anything yet with the new drive but run the Hitachi Fitness Test on it. No errors after almost 13 hours on an acient Celeron 2.4gz system. I was trying to use the (new)Feature tool to see if anything else could be adusted on the drive but everything came back as not being useable on the drive. Seems virtually silent any way. I absolutely could not hear it even totallt exposed. Maybe not in the quietest of environments though, so hard to tell.

I had used the (older)feature tool to adjust the 7200 drive to the lowest acoustic setting.

In the meantime, the issues with Tivo HD seem to have reolved themselves for now, so I am not sure what I will do with the new drive and Premiere, but probably just keep both for back up.


----------



## nooneuknow

KrustyVT said:


> I purchased InstantCake, and attempted to bake the image onto my stock 160gig drive - no go, it reports the drive is too small. The only other SATA drives I have are large ones - the 2TB I purchased for the TiVo upgrade, and a bunch of other 2TB drives intended for storage. I decided to temporarily use one of the spare 2TB's as a piece in the upgrade process, and I baked the IC 9.2 image onto a 2TB drive.
> 
> Booted up the TiVo, it recognized 20 hours, and I forced a few connections until the latest software came down. Now I have a 2TB drive, running 11-xx-k software, with 20 hours recognized. Time to move on!


Instant Cake (IC) doesn't work on drives larger than 1TB. This info is buried in the IC post-purchase FAQ section.

As for IC refusing to restore to the original drive, due to it being "too small", there is a workaround (although the IC FAQ claims it's completely impossible).

You just use IC to image a larger drive (up to 1TB), then use WinMFS to make a truncated backup of the IC imaged, larger, drive, then use WinMFS to restore the truncated backup to the original (stock) drive. WinMFS will downsize the partitions to their stock sizes. Make sure to leave the swap partition size at the WinMFS default of 128MB.

Now you can use your stock drive as a backup, and as a source drive, to upgrade to 2TB using JMFS (to Copy and Expand to the 2TB drive), and then WinMFS to Supersize the 2TB drive (and ONLY Supersize). Also, NEVER use JMFS Supersize on anything, except a TiVo Premiere.

Later, you say that you exceeded the 1TB (actually ~1.26TB) mark with WinMFS. That will work just fine, until you exceed ~1.26TB of disk usage, or in less common instances, it may hold up until some point beyond 1.26TB. The point is, you are running a time-bomb. I have verified this to be the case, as have many others here. WinMFS images that work, without problems later on, max out at ~1.26TB (original drive size + 1.1TB).

Important Notes: Don't allow IC or WinMFS to expand the target drive (utilize any unused space). That will cause additional partitions to be added (two at a time), which can cause you to exceed the partition number limit, in the end. Save the expanding for JMFS (which only adds one partition), then use WinMFS to turn on the "Supersize" option (which doesn't add any partitions). It's been long enough since I used IC, that I don't recall if you can stop it from expanding the drive. But, if I recall correctly, the process of using WinMFS to put the IC image back on the original (stock) TiVo drive may actually remove remove any additional partitions that IC may have added (beyond what a stock drive has). I, as well as others, have done this several times, so you should be able to get the same results.


----------



## KrustyVT

nooneuknow said:


> Later, you say that you exceeded the 1TB (actually ~1.26TB) mark with WinMFS. That will work just fine, until you exceed ~1.26TB of disk usage, or in less common instances, it may hold up until some point beyond 1.26TB. The point is, you are running a time-bomb. I have verified this to be the case, as have many others here. WinMFS images that work, without problems later on, max out at ~1.26TB (original drive size + 1.1TB).


Wow - thanks for an excellent response filled with valuable information - I certainly appreciate it!

Since it's the summer season the TiVoHD with the new 2TB drive hasn't exactly filled up with a lot of new stuff - I'm going to take this opportunity to redo everything as you mentioned above so there's no chance of bad things happening later.

Thanks again!


----------



## nooneuknow

KrustyVT said:


> Wow - thanks for an excellent response filled with valuable information - I certainly appreciate it!
> 
> Since it's the summer season the TiVoHD with the new 2TB drive hasn't exactly filled up with a lot of new stuff - I'm going to take this opportunity to redo everything as you mentioned above so there's no chance of bad things happening later.
> 
> Thanks again!


No problem.

I added the following to the original post (just to be as clear as possible) :

Important Notes: Don't allow IC or WinMFS to expand the target drive (utilize any unused space). That will cause additional partitions to be added (two at a time), which can cause you to exceed the partition number limit, in the end. Save the expanding for JMFS (which only adds one partition), then use WinMFS to turn on the "Supersize" option (which doesn't add any partitions). It's been long enough since I used IC, that I don't recall if you can stop it from expanding the drive. But, if I recall correctly, the process of using WinMFS to put the IC image back on the original (stock) TiVo drive may actually remove remove any additional partitions that IC may have added (beyond what a stock drive has). I, as well as others, have done this several times, so you should be able to get the same results.


----------



## deejaysurfer

I have a Series 3 HD Box that has been upgraded to a 1 TB via WinMFS in 2009 

I am looking to buy a TiVo Premiere and cloning the stock drive from that new unit to a 2TB hard drive (I know if I keep both active I can transfer via home network all my shows).

Is JMFS Live the best method to do this? Can WinMFS clone the TiVo Premiere stock drive to a 2TB? or Is JMFS Live the best method?

Thanks,

Chad


----------



## richsadams

deejaysurfer said:


> I have a Series 3 HD Box that has been upgraded to a 1 TB via WinMFS in 2009
> 
> I am looking to buy a TiVo Premiere and cloning the stock drive from that new unit to a 2TB hard drive (I know if I keep both active I can transfer via home network all my shows).
> 
> Is JMFS Live the best method to do this? Can WinMFS clone the TiVo Premiere stock drive to a 2TB? or Is JMFS Live the best method?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chad


Welcome to the forum Chad. Using jmfs is basically the only method by which you can upgrade a stock TiVo Premiere to 2TB's of recording goodness. winMFS does not work with TiVo Premiere models.

Follow the directions in the first post of the following thread (not this one...as it's for upgrading TiVo HD's) and you should be good to go:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Don't forget to "thank" the author via PayPal and happy upgrading!


----------



## deejaysurfer

Thanks Rich!
So tonight I am going to purchase a new TiVo Premiere. I currently have a TiVo HD (that was upgraded to a 1 TB drive via WinMFS in 2009). What is the best method to first upgrade the new TiVo Premier drive to a 2 TB and then clone over all my shows from my older TiVo hard drive?

I believe that transferring the shows via home network some of the copyrighted shows will not transfer to the new TiVo HD.

I guess what I am asking is after I clone the stock TiVo premiere hard drive how can I merge the recordings from my old TiVo?

Thanks for the help!

-Chad


----------



## unitron

deejaysurfer said:


> Thanks Rich!
> So tonight I am going to purchase a new TiVo Premiere. I currently have a TiVo HD (that was upgraded to a 1 TB drive via WinMFS in 2009). What is the best method to first upgrade the new TiVo Premier drive to a 2 TB and then clone over all my shows from my older TiVo hard drive?
> 
> I believe that transferring the shows via home network some of the copyrighted shows will not transfer to the new TiVo HD.
> 
> I guess what I am asking is after I clone the stock TiVo premiere hard drive how can I merge the recordings from my old TiVo?
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> -Chad


If you aren't going to lifetime that Premiere you might want to go for the Father's Day promo deal TiVo has right now, 2 year committment at $20 a month, no money up front, and you get the hardware free.

As for moving the recordings, what's on a given Tivo's hard drive is "encoded" with that TiVo's "fingerprint" and can't (or won't) be recognized by any other TiVo, so you can't just dd (or dd_rescue) media partitions from drive to drive.


----------



## richsadams

deejaysurfer said:


> Thanks Rich!
> So tonight I am going to purchase a new TiVo Premiere. I currently have a TiVo HD (that was upgraded to a 1 TB drive via WinMFS in 2009). What is the best method to first upgrade the new TiVo Premier drive to a 2 TB and then clone over all my shows from my older TiVo hard drive?
> 
> I believe that transferring the shows via home network some of the copyrighted shows will not transfer to the new TiVo HD.
> 
> I guess what I am asking is after I clone the stock TiVo premiere hard drive how can I merge the recordings from my old TiVo?
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> -Chad


Your best bet is to fully set up your new TiVo Premiere...cable cards, etc. Run it for a good 30 days to ensure that everything is working properly. If something is going to fail it'll usually do it right away. Once you're comfortable everything is good then go ahead and perform the upgrade. jmfs will copy over all of your settings and recordings when you upgrade.

You're correct about copy protected recordings. Anything recorded via OTA channels (local broadcasts from ABC, NBC and so on) can be transferred via TiVo MRV (Multi-room viewing) from your TiVo HD to the new Premiere. Others may have protection and they cannot be copied (to your Premiere or a computer, etc.)...it all depends on your cableco. You could move them now or if there are a lot, you could wait until you upgrade your Premiere. Otherwise that's the only way to enjoy recordings that are on your TiVo HD on your new Premiere.

Enjoy your new TiVo and happy upgrading!


----------



## deejaysurfer

Is there a way to clone the TiVo OS (from the premiere) to the new 2TB just so it boots and then copy over the other TiVo HD shows via Linux? I do understand about letting the TiVo run for a bit before I open it.

Thanks,

Chad


----------



## unitron

deejaysurfer said:


> Is there a way to clone the TiVo OS (from the premiere) to the new 2TB just so it boots and then copy over the other TiVo HD shows via Linux? I do understand about letting the TiVo run for a bit before I open it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chad


As I said, what's on a given Tivo's hard drive is "encoded" with that TiVo's "fingerprint" and can't (or won't) be recognized by any other TiVo.

If you take the hard drives out of 2 Tivos and hook them up to a computer and copy recordings from one to another, by whatever method or software, and then put the drives back in the Tivos, when one of them sees a recording on its hard drive that it didn't make, it's not going to give it "official recognition", because the correct "which Tivo made this recording" info isn't attached to that particular recording.

When you "transfer" recordings from a TiVo to a computer via TiVo Desktop, or from a TiVo to another TiVo on the same home network, it replaces the requirement that it be the same TiVo with a requirement that your account's Media Access Key be involved, but at least it works, unless it's one of those situations where it came into the first TiVo with the no duplication flag.


----------



## steinercat

Has anyone used a SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI (2TB) on a TivoHD?

I have this as a spare drive and really would like to upgrade.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

steinercat said:


> Has anyone used a SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI (2TB) on a TivoHD?
> 
> I have this as a spare drive and really would like to upgrade.


I've had lots of success with Samsung Spinpoints over the years. Not sure about the HD, specifically, but I'd say it'll do fine for you.


----------



## unitron

steinercat said:


> Has anyone used a SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI (2TB) on a TivoHD?
> 
> I have this as a spare drive and really would like to upgrade.


If it doesn't work in the TiVo, you can always make it one big NT partition and put it in a computer running TiVo Desktop and store recordings that way.


----------



## steinercat

well...i finally upgraded my drive to a spare 2TB Samsung F3.

Its currently rebooting now, saying "Removing external storage Device."

I didn't have any external storage devices on my 1TB WD that I used as a copy, but I had an external HD connected to the stock HD when I first upgraded to 1TB. Strange how this setting was carried over. It hasn't finished rebooting yet, but I'm half-expecting to get the same drive 'limitation' others have gotten the external storage warning. 

Anyways, when I opened my Tivo, I saw 2 bulging caps on the PSU mainboard, and the big yellow POT had some leakage.

Tivo has worked great tough, and haven't had any rebooting issues.


UPDATE:

157 hours. 

time to dig up the stock 160 HD.


----------



## unitron

retiredqwest said:


> That dam* Apple_Free Extra shows as a partition...


Of course it isn't really a partition, it's the unpartitioned space, if any, at the end of the drive, but that's just the way that the Apple Partition Map does the accounting, but the tools don't count it as a partition when they count partitions, and they just overwrite it.

You can delete it with, if I remember my experiments correctly, some option in pdisk, but when you re-initialize (if you didn't use the space to create another "real" partition), it's right back there, like in a low-budget horror movie, but in this case, it's just a harmless accounting artifact.


----------



## unitron

steinercat said:


> well...i finally upgraded my drive to a spare 2TB Samsung F3.
> 
> Its currently rebooting now, saying "Removing external storage Device."
> 
> I didn't have any external storage devices on my 1TB WD that I used as a copy, but I had an external HD connected to the stock HD when I first upgraded to 1TB. Strange how this setting was carried over. It hasn't finished rebooting yet, but I'm half-expecting to get the same drive 'limitation' others have gotten the external storage warning.
> 
> Anyways, when I opened my Tivo, I saw 2 bulging caps on the PSU mainboard, and the big yellow POT had some leakage.
> 
> Tivo has worked great tough, and haven't had any rebooting issues.
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> 157 hours.
> 
> time to dig up the stock 160 HD.


You should also start saving your allowance for power supply repair/replacement.


----------



## steinercat

drive upgrade went great.

Cox had to come in and change CC. it wasn't pairing properly after upgrade. They replaced it with a Cisco card.

all good now...just waiting for PSU to die.


----------



## bhiga

Thank you for this! Successfully upgraded from a WD10EVDS to a WD20EURS on my TiVo HD by following the unstructions.

As someone else mentioned, Fry's Electronics has the WD20EVDS/WD20EURS as the same SKU in their system, but so far, no problems!

The old Maxtor SATA 150 (rebranded Promise PDC20375 aka SATA 150TX2plus) in my drive-wiping machine worked perfectly with JMFS, copying drive-to-drive and expanding afterward.


----------



## csell

My already upgraded 750 GB harddrive just died and I'm going to upgrade to a 2 TB drive. I still have the original 160 GB drive, which I have already put back in the Tivo until I pick up the new drive. My question is 

1) Do you need to do a "Clear & delete everything" before beginning the process? 

2) When I put back the original harddrive, I am now getting the cablecard message from my cable company. I guess that information is stored on the harddrive? So what I'm wondering is if I have them reprogram it now (with the original 160 GB harddrive) and then I do the upgrade to the new drive, will I have to reprogram the cablecard yet again? That's why I'm hoping I don't have to do the "Clear & Delete everything" and that information would be transfered to the new drive...

Thanks


----------



## Stuxnet

1) No, see 2)

2) If you pair the 160GB with the cable card before you copy it over to the new drive, jmfs will transfer everything from the 160GB to the 2TB (recorded shows, season pass, cable pairing ...)


----------



## csell

Stuxnet said:


> 1) No, see 2)
> 
> 2) If you pair the 160GB with the cable card before you copy it over to the new drive, jmfs will transfer everything from the 160GB to the 2TB (recorded shows, season pass, cable pairing ...)


Awesome, that's what I wanted to hear!


----------



## joecody12

In the past with my Series 2 Tivos, I replaced the hard drives proactively after about three or four years, and at the same time expanded to more capacity. For example, a Toshiba SD-H400 upgraded from the original 80GB drive to 160GB, then three years later upgrade from 160GB to 500GB. I never had any issues because I was always expanding to more capacity.

Now, with a THD upgraded to a 2TB drive using JMFS and WinMFS, I'm at the max size limit. If I want to proactively replace that drive in three years, the new drive will probably be no larger than the same 2TB, and it might be a couple of bits or bytes smaller depending on the brand/model. Using today's tools (JMFS, WinMFS), would I run into problems trying to copy to a drive with a bit less capacity?


----------



## lessd

joecody12 said:


> In the past with my Series 2 Tivos, I replaced the hard drives proactively after about three or four years, and at the same time expanded to more capacity. For example, a Toshiba SD-H400 upgraded from the original 80GB drive to 160GB, then three years later upgrade from 160GB to 500GB. I never had any issues because I was always expanding to more capacity.
> 
> Now, with a THD upgraded to a 2TB drive using JMFS and WinMFS, I'm at the max size limit. If I want to proactively replace that drive in three years, the new drive will probably be no larger than the same 2TB, and it might be a couple of bits or bytes smaller depending on the brand/model. Using today's tools (JMFS, WinMFS), would I run into problems trying to copy to a drive with a bit less capacity?


Unfortunately yes, try using the same brand drive to avoid that too few bit problem. 
One question I would have is if you made a copy from a 2Tb drive to a 3Tb drive and did not try to expand the copy would you have any problems ? as you would have only 2Tb of data on the 3 Tb drive.


----------



## retiredqwest

lessd said:


> Unfortunately yes, try using the same brand drive to avoid that too few bit problem.
> One question I would have is if you made a copy from a 2Tb drive to a 3Tb drive and did not try to expand the copy would you have any problems ? as you would have only 2Tb of data on the 3 Tb drive.


The TP doesn't recognize a 3TB period. I copied the stock TP 320G to a 3TB and in the TP it just cycled thru the power up loop. Even though I didn't try the same process on the THD, it would be safe to say the THD won't recognize the 3TB either.

AS far as 2TB to 2TB...... it can't hurt to try. The only thing you lose is the 12-14 hrs to copy it!


----------



## lessd

retiredqwest said:


> The TP doesn't recognize a 3TB period. I copied the stock TP 320G to a 3TB and in the TP it just cycled thru the power up loop. Even though I didn't try the same process on the THD, it would be safe to say the THD won't recognize the 3TB either.
> 
> AS far as 2TB to 2TB...... it can't hurt to try. The only thing you lose is the 12-14 hrs to copy it!


So a 3Tb drive has no way to jumper down the size so older computers and TiVo will recognize the drive?


----------



## retiredqwest

lessd said:


> So a 3Tb drive has no way to jumper down the size so older computers and TiVo will recognize the drive?


Never heard of that one before on any HDD....

yah there is one umarked jumper. But, I'm not shorting it out just to see what happens....

I'm not the only one that tried this....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8544478#post8544478


----------



## unitron

retiredqwest said:


> Never heard of that one before on any HDD....
> 
> yah there is one umarked jumper. But, I'm not shorting it out just to see what happens....
> 
> I'm not the only one that tried this....
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8544478#post8544478


Older, smaller drives, in days gone by, have had jumper positions that would cause them to report themselves as smaller to keep older motherboard bios'es happy, but if your 3TB had such a thing, it would most likely be documented on the sticker on the top of the drive.


----------



## MojoRilla

Another success to report. I was able to copy an already expanded WD 1 TB drive to a Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 2TB (about 6 hours to copy) and expand using JFMS. No supersize needed since I had already supersized the WD.

Hello 318 hours!


----------



## richsadams

MojoRilla said:


> Another success to report. I was able to copy an already expanded WD 1 TB drive to a Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 2TB (about 6 hours to copy) and expand using JFMS. No supersize needed since I had already supersized the WD.
> 
> Hello 318 hours!


Nice! :up: If you're happy with the acoustics can you post the Seagate model number if you have it? They are fairly new to the mix and IIRC at least one other person is using one successfully. Seagate has had their share of QC issues these past few years, but if these newer green drives work out it would be a good alternative to recommend for upgrades. TIA and enjoy!


----------



## MojoRilla

It seems I spoke too soon about having success with a TivoHD and the Seagate ST2000DL003 2tb 5900 RPM green drive. I've had some weird freezes since the upgrade (frozen with a gray screen, but lights on the front of the Tivo). I'm now running a kickstart 57, but will downgrade back to my 1 TB western digital if this doesn't work.

Anyone else see this kind of weirdness after upgrading from an already expanded drive?


----------



## spamjam

I successfully expanded my TivoHD from a supersized WD10EACS to a WD20EURS using only JMFS. Copy took 8-9 hours. Will have to use wdidle (haven't yet) as it hung at soft reboot. The WD20EURS has a manufacture date of 5/14/2011. 318 HD hours...yay!



unitron said:


> Have you tried a soft reboot yet?


----------



## richsadams

spamjam said:


> I successfully expanded my TivoHD from a supersized WD10EACS to a WD20EURS using only JMFS. Copy took 8-9 hours. The WD20EURS has a manufacture date of 5/14/2011. Did NOT have to use wdidle. 318 HD hours...yay!


Awesome! Thanks for the detailed feedback and enjoy!


----------



## spamjam

Apologies about this public post, but I cannot send PMs until I have 10 posts. This one gets me to eight! Yeah, I'm a quiet sorta guy.

To the inquirer of my WD10EACS: Sorry, but it's going in my wife's TiVo!


----------



## unitron

spamjam said:


> Apologies about this public post, but I cannot send PMs until I have 10 posts. This one gets me to eight! Yeah, I'm a quiet sorta guy.
> 
> To the inquirer of my WD10EACS: Sorry, but it's going in my wife's TiVo!


Thanks anyway, I just found one on Craigslist.

Tell your wife I hope she's properly appreciative of it and you.


----------



## timmmyboi

EXTREMELY happy to report another success story for the WD20EARS 2TB using the directions at the beginning of this thread! TiVo reports a whopping 318 hours HD recording time. 

Thanks for all the great directions!


----------



## timmmyboi

Oh and I didnt use the WDIDLE either and also that thing that quiets the drive. This drive is SUPER silent sssshhhhhhh


----------



## unitron

timmmyboi said:


> Oh and I didnt use the WDIDLE either and also that thing that quiets the drive. This drive is SUPER silent sssshhhhhhh


Have you tried a soft reboot yet?

EDIT

The TCF server clock seems to be over 10 minutes behind.

At 7:27AM this first got posted with a time attached of 7:19AM


----------



## spamjam

Rats! I wasn't paying attention and forgot about the soft reboot problem and why wdidle is needed. I discovered my TiVo does hang at soft reboot, so I'll have to use wdidle. Haven't done so yet. I've edited my post above.

NOTE TO richsadams: you probably should edit your post that quotes my post.



unitron said:


> Have you tried a soft reboot yet?


----------



## timmmyboi

unitron said:


> Have you tried a soft reboot yet?
> 
> EDIT
> 
> The TCF server clock seems to be over 10 minutes behind.
> 
> At 7:27AM this first got posted with a time attached of 7:19AM


I did last night and a few times this morning to make sure it was OK and it did great, and now TiVo pushed the update for me today and it rebooted and I'm looking at this welcome screen now for almost an hour so WDIDLE here I come!


----------



## timmmyboi

OK that was fast and fixed the issue.


----------



## MojoRilla

After several weeks, I'm calling my upgrade to the Seagate ST2000DL003 2tb 5900 RPM green drive a success. There was some flakiness during the first week, but now everything seems fine.

Thanks all...


----------



## richsadams

MojoRilla said:


> After several weeks, I'm calling my upgrade to the Seagate ST2000DL003 2tb 5900 RPM green drive a success. There was some flakiness during the first week, but now everything seems fine.
> 
> Thanks all...


That's excellent to hear. Options are always good. Enjoy!


----------



## lpwcomp

I am not sure why the original drive must be reinstalled in the TiVo so its software is updated. Can't you just update the new drive once it is installed?


----------



## L David Matheny

lpwcomp said:


> I am not sure why the original drive must be reinstalled in the TiVo so its software is updated. Can't you just update the new drive once it is installed?


If you mean something like a 2TB drive, I think the earlier versions of the software don't support anything that large, so your new huge TiVo might not be able to boot. Besides, why not have an updated 320GB drive on the shelf as a backup? And if you have a cable card, everybody says to get it paired while you're still using the original drive so the pairing will be backed up, too. (I'm OTA only, so I don't know cable cards.)


----------



## ThreeSoFar

lpwcomp said:


> I am not sure why the original drive must be reinstalled in the TiVo so its software is updated. Can't you just update the new drive once it is installed?


Tivo firmware (software available built-in to the TiVo box but no on the hard drive) has no capability. Period. It cannot do anything on its own. So when you put in a blank drive, the TiVo does nothing. At all.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Tivo firmware (software available built-in to the TiVo box but no on the hard drive) has no capability. Period. It cannot do anything on its own. So when you put in a blank drive, the TiVo does nothing. At all.


I think the OP meant why does he have to first update his original TiVo drive prior to upgrading to a larger drive (assuming he's using the original TiVo drive to image the new one).

IIRC (as David mentions) there's something about the older TiVo software that prevents jmfs from doing its magic. Hence updating the original hard drive first is a necessity.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> I am not sure why the original drive must be reinstalled in the TiVo so its software is updated. Can't you just update the new drive once it is installed?


Per my note above, it's not an option unless you have updated your original hard drive fairly recently.

Updating the original drive shouldn't take very long at all. Simply install the original hard drive and force a connection to TiVo until it downloads. (It may take several connections before the update will appear.)

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Status" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart". Then reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can simply unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in. Once it's rebooted and it's up and running with the latest software you can then power TiVo down, pull the original drive and use it to image your new one.

Whatever you do, don't cut corners. The jmfs program is dead simple...just follow all of the steps and you'll be good to go.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## lpwcomp

This was more for the future. My original hard drive is still installed but is showing signs of imminent failure - it got wonky while watching a previously recorded program and then rebooted. It also got "Fail 7" in all three parts of the kickstart 54 initial test. I have ordered a new drive with the hope that I will still be able to image a new drive from the old one and then will store the old drive away. If at some point the new drive dies catastrophically, I wouldn't want to stress the old drive any more than absolutely necessary.

This is on the HD. The new drive is only 1TB, which was about all I could afford. Couldn't really afford even that right now but I am trying to avoid the cost of instantcake.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> This was more for the future. My original hard drive is still installed but is showing signs of imminent failure - it got wonky while watching a previously recorded program and then rebooted. It also got "Fail 7" in all three parts of the kickstart 54 initial test. I have ordered a new drive with the hope that I will still be able to image a new drive from the old one and then will store the old drive away. If at some point the new drive dies catastrophically, I wouldn't want to stress the old drive any more than absolutely necessary.
> 
> This is on the HD. The new drive is only 1TB, which was about all I could afford. Couldn't really afford even that right now but I am trying to avoid the cost of instantcake.


Try to keep the current drive's "stress level" to a minimum and you s/b fine.

Best of luck and let us know how the upgrade goes!


----------



## Flyinace2000

I am thinking of ugrading this summer while not much is on so i don't have to worry about transfering 2 questions.

Can I do this on a Mac or should i use my work PC laptop?

Second would either of these drives work well?

SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Cache: 32MB
Average Seek Time: 8.9ms
Average Latency: 5.52ms
Features: 667GB Formatted Capacity Per Disk Environment friendly product with RoHS compliance Improved performance with dual-ARM based firmware Improved recording stability over temperature with PMR ATA S.M.A.R.T. Compliant Advanced dynamic FOD control for best data integrity ATA Automatic Acoustic Management Feature Intelligent compensation of external disturbance ATA 48-bit Address Feature SATA Native Command Queuing Feature ATA Device Configuration Overlay Feature Device Initiated
Model #: HD204UI

Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Cache: 64MB
Features: Long-term Reliability - These drives are designed to last in high temperature always-on streaming digital audio/video environments such as PVR/DVR, DVR recorders and surveillance video recorders. Reduced Power Consumption - WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to competitors' drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek, IntelliPark,
Parts: 3 years limited
Labor: 3 years limited
Model #: WD20EURS
Item #: N82E16822136783

Both are about $100 on newegg


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> I am thinking of ugrading this summer while not much is on so i don't have to worry about transfering 2 questions.
> 
> Can I do this on a Mac or should i use my work PC laptop?


It depends on the Mac. jmfs requires both the existing and upgrade drive to be connected to the computer at the same time for the image transfer. The best/fastest way is via direct SATA connections to the motherboard. If you have a Mac Pro that should be easy enough. Otherwise if you have an iMac or Mac Mini you'd need two SATA/USB adapters or two SATA/USB docks or a combination of the two. (Note that a dual SATA/USB dock will not work...each drive has to have it's own connection.) Laptops have always been a challenge as they have to use the adapters or docks and some have had issues with the BIOS settings, but some have successfully upgraded using them (Mac and PC).



Flyinace2000 said:


> Second would either of these drives work well?
> 
> SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
> Cache: 32MB
> Average Seek Time: 8.9ms
> Average Latency: 5.52ms
> Features: 667GB Formatted Capacity Per Disk Environment friendly product with RoHS compliance Improved performance with dual-ARM based firmware Improved recording stability over temperature with PMR ATA S.M.A.R.T. Compliant Advanced dynamic FOD control for best data integrity ATA Automatic Acoustic Management Feature Intelligent compensation of external disturbance ATA 48-bit Address Feature SATA Native Command Queuing Feature ATA Device Configuration Overlay Feature Device Initiated
> Model #: HD204UI
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
> Cache: 64MB
> Features: Long-term Reliability - These drives are designed to last in high temperature always-on streaming digital audio/video environments such as PVR/DVR, DVR recorders and surveillance video recorders. Reduced Power Consumption - WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to competitors' drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek, IntelliPark,
> Parts: 3 years limited
> Labor: 3 years limited
> Model #: WD20EURS
> Item #: N82E16822136783
> 
> Both are about $100 on newegg


AFAIK the Sammy is an unknown here. The WD20EURS has been used to successfully upgrade TiVo's by a number of TCF members and would be a good choice.

Another option is the WD20EARS. For all intents and purposes it will do the same job as the EURS. The only difference (again, with respect to TiVo) is that the AAM default is 254 as opposed to the EARS' 128. The EARS is very quiet out of the box, but if you wanted to match the AAM of the EURS you can use HDDscan to adjust it to make it quieter.

Note that either Western Digital drive may need the Intellipark setting adjusted per Section IV, #29 of the original Drive Upgrade FAQ:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> Another option is the WD20EARS. For all intents and purposes it will do the same job as the EURS. The only difference (again, with respect to TiVo) is that the AAM default is 254 as opposed to the EARS' 128. The EARS is very quiet out of the box, but if you wanted to match the AAM of the EURS you can use HDDscan to adjust it to make it quieter.
> 
> Note that either Western Digital drive may need the Intellipark setting adjusted per Section IV, #29 of the original Drive Upgrade FAQ:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


The newer WD EARS will not let you adj the AAM using any program, this has been my experience for the last few months, WD could change that again I guess but you would not know until you tried. I did find the drive very quiet out of the box so it was not any problem. I did run WDIDLE3 /d as a precaution.


----------



## lpwcomp

I installed a WD10EARS in my HD early Sunday morning. I used WinMFS for the imaging. I had no recordings to save so I used a friends laptop and a USB SATA drive bay. Ran WinMFS to create a truncated backup from the original drive, restored it to the new drive, expanded and Supersized it. Very easy. Used my desktop computer to do wdidle. I couldn't use the desktop to do the imaging as I am still running Win2k. Actually, I was hoping to get away w/o running wdidle but either the TiVo softboot hung or I got impatient.

To Flyinace2000: If this is a TiVo HD you will have to use the laptop and WinMFS to Supersize it. Of course, that assumes that the laptop isn't running Win2k or XP.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> The newer WD EARS will not let you adj the AAM using any program, this has been my experience for the last few months, WD could change that again I guess but you would not know until you tried. I did find the drive very quiet out of the box so it was not any problem. I did run WDIDLE3 /d as a precaution.


Hi Les...I may be mistaken, but I'm almost certain a TCF member used HDDscan to adjust the AAM on an EARS fairly recently. Not enough time to scroll back (or it may be on another thread). In any case, that's a possibility, but based on the one we have, they are as quiet as the OEM TiVo drive w/o any adjustments so still probably a good option. If it were being used in a bedroom or somewhere where silence is golden, then I'd go with the EURS.


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> Hi Les...I may be mistaken, but I'm almost certain a TCF member used HDDscan to adjust the AAM on an EARS fairly recently. Not enough time to scroll back (or it may be on another thread). In any case, that's a possibility, but based on the one we have, they are as quiet as the OEM TiVo drive w/o any adjustments so still probably a good option. If it were being used in a bedroom or somewhere where silence is golden, then I'd go with the EURS.


In the last three months I have upgraded 3 TPs with the WD EARS and using HDDscan or the Hitachi diag boot CD I could not change the AAM, In 2010 I had no problem with the WD EARS and changing the AAM. If I purchased a WD EARS today I may not have the problem, I just don't know. The WD EARS are quiet anyways and have been no problem for the friends I have upgraded.
Any new information from anybody with a recent WD EARS purchase would be appreciated.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> Any new information from anybody with a recent WD EARS purchase would be appreciated.


+1 :up:


----------



## lpwcomp

Based on what I had read around here, I didn't even try to adjust AAM on my WD10EARS last weekend.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> Based on what I had read around here, I didn't even try to adjust AAM on my WD10EARS last weekend.


They are pretty darned quiet out of the box for sure.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Yeah the laptop runs Win7. I have a USB-SATA adapter and i ordered a USB/SATA Dock along with the EARS driver. Just burned the live CDs. Soon as UPS gets here i can get started. Is the wdidle step still needed and if so can i do it via USB? 

Also, since i am doing this all via USB can i just do it in VMWare?


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> Yeah the laptop runs Win7. I have a USB-SATA adapter and i ordered a USB/SATA Dock along with the EARS driver. Just burned the live CDs. Soon as UPS gets here i can get started. Is the wdidle step still needed and if so can i do it via USB?
> 
> Also, since i am doing this all via USB can i just do it in VMWare?


If you need to adjust the Intellipark setting with wdidle3.exe it has to be connected directly to a SATA port, USB won't work. It's possible that you won't need to adjust it though. The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade and install it, see if it boots up (might take two or three attempts) and if it does try a menu restart. If both go well, you're golden. If either fail you'll need to adjust it per the instructions:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160 (Section IV, #29)

Some folks just make the adjustment so they don't have to pull the drive a second time...your call of course.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## Flyinace2000

I don't have a computer with available SATA ports (laptop/iMac/PowerMacG5). The PowerMacG5 has the ports...but you know PPC...so that won't work.


----------



## mattack

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with running on a Mac, but I'll just mention I'm on a Mac, running the latest jmfs (104).

It says "Press Ctrl-C to interrupt", while it's doing the copying.. But I wasn't able to actually get it to stop.. it would just overwrite the ^Cs on the screen and keep going. I even held down ^C.

I was originally expanding to an external USB<>SATA dock, but that's pretty slow, so I wanted to stop it and put the drive inside.. had to power down the machine.

No big deal, just wanted to report it.


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with running on a Mac, but I'll just mention I'm on a Mac, running the latest jmfs (104).
> 
> It says "Press Ctrl-C to interrupt", while it's doing the copying.. But I wasn't able to actually get it to stop.. it would just overwrite the ^Cs on the screen and keep going. I even held down ^C.
> 
> I was originally expanding to an external USB<>SATA dock, but that's pretty slow, so I wanted to stop it and put the drive inside.. had to power down the machine.
> 
> No big deal, just wanted to report it.


Understood. I think the instructions are referring to a Windows keyboard. Did you happen to try Command+C? Just wondering if that would do it since Command is equal to Control.


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> Understood. I think the instructions are referring to a Windows keyboard. Did you happen to try Command+C? Just wondering if that would do it since Command is equal to Control.


Umm, no. Windows uses control like Apple uses command, but other than that they have nothing to do with each other.

Macs run real UNIX, and thus use control-C.. ESPECIALLY since I'm running a Linux CD!! (it's only Mac hardware in that case.)


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Umm, no. Windows uses control like Apple uses command, but other than that they have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> Macs run real UNIX, and thus use control-C.. ESPECIALLY since I'm running a Linux CD!! (it's only Mac hardware in that case.)


I was thinking more in the respect that for instance to copy some text on a Windows keyboard you press Control+C. On a Mac keyboard you press Command+C to do the same thing. In that respect they are equal. Got it otherwise.

Best of luck.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I need of some help...

JMFS wouldn't detect my TiVO drive. So i did some troubleshooting and the drive that is in the USB dock doesn't show up in "fdisk -l". I use my usb-SATA adapter the drive shows up. Any ideas?

Here is the hardware i am talking about
http://www.amazon.com/Diablotek-EN3525D-Hard-Drive-Dock/dp/B00346I5LI


----------



## Flyinace2000

Also. Teh results of fdisk -l are this

SDA (160gb) 
sda1 (NTFS)
sda2 (NTFS)

SDB 2000GB (unpartitionsed - new drive)

So SDA is my boot drive. Is there anything i need to do to make sure that doesn't get wiped? 

Also when I look at cd /dev/sd (tab tab) it lists
sda sda1 sda2 sdb sdc

is SDC just a place holder or is it only sort of showing up? Do i need to mount it manually?


----------



## Flyinace2000

And for the record, the dock works when pluged into the iMac.










Sorry for the stream of posts


----------



## Flyinace2000

Emergency over.

For some reason the TiVo drive did not like being in the dock. So i put the tivo on the USB Adatper and 2TB drive in the dock and everything worked. Currently copying.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> Emergency over.
> 
> For some reason the TiVo drive did not like being in the dock. So i put the tivo on the USB Adatper and 2TB drive in the dock and everything worked. Currently copying.
> 
> Thanks!


Interesting. No idea why that would be but glad things are working. :up:


----------



## Flyinace2000

So for kicks i tried to do a reboot. I am stuck at the WELCOME POWERING UP screen. Is this what wdidle3.exe fixes?

If so, i don't have any options unless there is a way to fake a SATA connection in a VM or i plug into my laptop.

Also, how big of a deal is this? The Tivo doesn't do soft reboots very often and if one does happen for a software update couldn't i just pull the power and reboot?


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> So for kicks i tried to do a reboot. I am stuck at the WELCOME POWERING UP screen. Is this what wdidle3.exe fixes?
> 
> If so, i don't have any options unless there is a way to fake a SATA connection in a VM or i plug into my laptop.
> 
> Also, how big of a deal is this? The Tivo doesn't do soft reboots very often and if one does happen for a software update couldn't i just pull the power and reboot?


Yes, if you can conduct a hard boot/reboot (unplug TiVo and plug it back in) but can't get it to reboot from a menu restart, the Intellipark setting will likely need to be adjusted using wdidle3.exe.

That said, and as you surmise, it's really not a big deal. About the only time a soft reboot would come into play is when TiVo pushes an update. That happens three, sometimes four times a year. If you haven't made the Intellipark adjustment it just means that you'd come home to find TiVo hanging at the "Welcome! Poweing up..." screen and have to conduct a hard reboot. Keep in mind that while it's waiting that it's not recording anything so it could be inconvenient...particularly if you were away on vacation or something.

Some WD drives won't boot up at all without adjusting Intelipark. Others (like yours) will boot up okay but they can't handle a menu restart without the adjustment. Yet others don't need any adjustment at all. It seems to all depend on the drive, the date of manufacture and the alignment of the stars. 

Other than using a direct SATA port on a PC's motherboard or a SATA port on a PCI card (not an eSATA connection), there really isn't any other way to successfully run wdidle3.exe. Perhaps you have a friend that has a PC?


----------



## Flyinace2000

What about a PC card (for laptops) that has SATA ports on it?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839328030
(it says eSATA so...maybe not)

I could always take the drive out of my laptop, plug in the TiVo drive boot up the computer (without the bottom cover on) and adjust it that way. Just don't feel super great about running the computer without that part! haha

I will wait and see how big of a deal it is.


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> What about a PC card (for laptops) that has SATA ports on it?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839328030
> (it says eSATA so...maybe not)
> 
> I could always take the drive out of my laptop, plug in the TiVo drive boot up the computer (without the bottom cover on) and adjust it that way. Just don't feel super great about running the computer without that part! haha
> 
> I will wait and see how big of a deal it is.


Unfortunately that's an eSATA (external SATA) port on the card and eSATA doesn't work with wdidle3.exe.

IIRC someone else was able to connect their TiVo hard drive to their laptop's SATA port. Might be worth a try if you have the right cables, etc.


----------



## PedjaR

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately that's an eSATA (external SATA) port on the card and eSATA doesn't work with wdidle3.exe.
> 
> IIRC someone else was able to connect their TiVo hard drive to their laptop's SATA port. Might be worth a try if you have the right cables, etc.


I ran wdidle3.exe on WD20EARS successfully using eSATA (on a desktop PC, though).


----------



## richsadams

PedjaR said:


> I ran wdidle3.exe on WD20EARS successfully using eSATA (on a desktop PC, though).


Ah good...was it a separate eSATA enclosure or an eSATA on a PCI card?


----------



## PedjaR

richsadams said:


> Ah good...was it a separate eSATA enclosure or an eSATA on a PCI card?


Separate eSATA/USB enclosure (of course, wdiddle saw the drive only with the enclosure operating in eSATA mode).


----------



## richsadams

PedjaR said:


> Separate eSATA/USB enclosure (of course, wdiddle saw the drive only with the enclosure operating in eSATA mode).


Well, that's _very_ interesting indeed because AFAIK trying to adjust the Intellipark feature on a WD hard drive by connecting it via an eSATA enclosure has never worked in the past. 

I have an Antec MX-1 eSATA enclosure. I may have to give wdidle3.exe a try as soon as I have time. If that's the case now, it would be a great option for folks that don't have direct access to a computer's MB SATA port.

What brand/model of eSATA enclosure did you use? TIA!


----------



## PedjaR

richsadams said:


> Well, that's _very_ interesting indeed because AFAIK trying to adjust the Intellipark feature on a WD hard drive by connecting it via an eSATA enclosure has never worked in the past.
> 
> I have an Antec MX-1 eSATA enclosure. I may have to give wdidle3.exe a try as soon as I have time. If that's the case now, it would be a great option for folks that don't have direct access to a computer's MB SATA port.
> 
> What brand/model of eSATA enclosure did you use? TIA!


I borrowed it from a friend just for the upgrade and returned it. It looked like this:
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1159&ID=1651
so it is either that one or an earlier version of it (it was a bit old).


----------



## richsadams

PedjaR said:


> I borrowed it from a friend just for the upgrade and returned it. It looked like this:
> http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1159&ID=1651
> so it is either that one or an earlier version of it (it was a bit old).


Thanks for that! I'll test the one I have to see how it goes.


----------



## teiland

I have a THD that I expanded from 160GB to 1TB with WinMFS. I used JMFS 1.04 to copy and expand the drive with no errors. When I put it in the TIVO, it thinks I have a missing external drive. Once the TIVO is done repairing the missing drive problem, I'm back where I started with 1TB of space.

I think the problem is due to a little piece of unused space at the end of the 1TB drive which causes JMFS to add a 17th partition.

*Here is the map before JMFS expand:*
Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)

*Here is the map after JMFS expand:*
Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
17 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)

Any ideas on how to fix this or if it can be fixed? Can I swap partition 16 and 17?


----------



## dwit

teiland said:


> I have a THD that I expanded from 160GB to 1TB with WinMFS. I used JMFS 1.04 to copy and expand the drive with no errors. When I put it in the TIVO, it thinks I have a missing external drive. Once the TIVO is done repairing the missing drive problem, I'm back where I started with 1TB of space.
> 
> I think the problem is due to a little piece of unused space at the end of the 1TB drive which causes JMFS to add a 17th partition.
> 
> *Here is the map before JMFS expand:*
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
> 
> *Here is the map after JMFS expand:*
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
> 17 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)
> 
> Any ideas on how to fix this or if it can be fixed? Can I swap partition 16 and 17?


If you are only using a 1 TB drive, there is no reason to involve JMFS. WinMfs is all you need. JMFS is used for copying and expanding to drives larger than 1 TB.

What are you trying to copy and expand the 1 TB drive to? What are you trying to copy? What are you expanding to?


----------



## unitron

dwit said:


> If you are only using a 1 TB drive, there is no reason to involve JMFS. WinMfs is all you need. JMFS is used for copying and expanding to drives larger than 1 TB.
> 
> What are you trying to copy and expand the 1 TB drive to? What are you trying to copy? What are you expanding to?


I got fooled by that at first as well. Then I looked at how big the partitions in the second list are.

Apparently he's trying to go from a 1TB drive to a 2TB drive.

That Apple Free "partition" really should have been bumped to the end of the drive, or just plain obliterated, don't know why it wasn't.


----------



## Philtho

I have a Tivo HD and I've just ordered a WD20EARS. My Tivo has a stock 160GB + MyDVR expander and it's been partial recording and skipping during recordings. So just to make sure:

1. Remove MyDVR from within Tivo settings.
2. Take 160GB from Tivo, plug both 160GB and 2T into my PC.
3. Use JMFS to do the required steps to copy.
4. Boot in Vista64 and use WinMFS on WD20EARS.
5. ?? Use wdidle3 on new drive ?? (This isnt mentioned anywhere in OP)
6. Put new drive in TivoHD
7. Done?!


----------



## richsadams

Philtho said:


> I have a Tivo HD and I've just ordered a WD20EARS. My Tivo has a stock 160GB + MyDVR expander and it's been partial recording and skipping during recordings. So just to make sure:
> 
> 1. Remove MyDVR from within Tivo settings.
> 2. Take 160GB from Tivo, plug both 160GB and 2T into my PC.
> 3. Use JMFS to do the required steps to copy.
> 4. Boot in Vista64 and use WinMFS on WD20EARS.
> 5. ?? Use wdidle3 on new drive ?? (This isnt mentioned anywhere in OP)
> 6. Put new drive in TivoHD
> 7. Done?!


That's more or less it...but don't modify or skip ANY of the steps in the instructions on the first post of this thread. Also when you perform the Supersize function do not use Windows drive management to get your computer to recognize your TiVo drive (it will wipe the boot sector)...Windows won't recognize your TiVo drive but the winMFS program will.

Section IV, #29 of the original upgrade FAQ outlines using wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark setting:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Agreed, it would be nice if the OP would add those instructions to the FAQ.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## Philtho

Brilliant. Thanks! 

Now to wait for the drive to arrive. It's a no brainer at $75 from Amazon.


----------



## unitron

Philtho said:


> Brilliant. Thanks!
> 
> Now to wait for the drive to arrive. It's a no brainer at $75 from Amazon.


When you get the "EARS" run the WD diagnostic software (long test) on it to make sure that it's okay, then run wdidle3, then go through the actual TiVo upgrade.


----------



## Stuxnet

unitron said:


> When you get the "EARS" run the WD diagnostic software (long test) on it to make sure that it's okay, then run wdidle3, then go through the actual TiVo upgrade.


AND... reset AAM > 128 w/HDDScan or equivalent


----------



## teiland

retiredqwest said:


> The Stock THD Drives doesn't have it...
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 165	Total DTV SD Hours: 144 56 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


I think, when expanding from stock to 1TB using WinMFS some drives end up with this little apple_free space. I believe these are the drives that cannot be expanded any further with WinMFS or JMFS. WinMFS cannot add the required 2 partitions and apparently JMFS thinks apple_free is a real partition and leaves it as partiton 16 on the expanded drive which results in 17 partitions like this:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
17 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)

However, I finally did get my drive to expand with JMFS but I'm not sure how long it will work because I manually enlarged partition 15. Here is what I did:
- Copy 1TB drive to 2TB with JMFS copy, do not expand
- Delete partition 15 "MFS Media by Winmfs"
- Recreate partition 15 "MFS Media by Winmfs" but include the apple_free space (no more apple_free partition 16)
- Put 2TB drive in THD, it thinks the external drive is missing, let it repair the problem
- Expand 2TB drive with JMFS, no errors
- Put 2TB drive in TIVO, boots with no issues, 318hrs

I tried to put partition 15 back to the original size and make apple_free be partition 17 but the TIVO was caught in the endless reboot loop. I can post partition maps for each step if anyone is interested. I'm currently trying to duplicate the process on a second 2TB drive with a 1GB swap space. It'll be a while before I can get the maps.


----------



## unitron

teiland said:


> I think, when expanding from stock to 1TB using WinMFS some drives end up with this little apple_free space. I believe these are the drives that cannot be expanded any further with WinMFS or JMFS. WinMFS cannot add the required 2 partitions and apparently JMFS thinks apple_free is a real partition and leaves it as partiton 16 on the expanded drive which results in 17 partitions like this:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
> 17 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)
> 
> However, I finally did get my drive to expand with JMFS but I'm not sure how long it will work because I manually enlarged partition 15. Here is what I did:
> - Copy 1TB drive to 2TB with JMFS copy, do not expand
> - Delete partition 15 "MFS Media by Winmfs"
> - Recreate partition 15 "MFS Media by Winmfs" but include the apple_free space (no more apple_free partition 16)
> - Put 2TB drive in THD, it thinks the external drive is missing, let it repair the problem
> - Expand 2TB drive with JMFS, no errors
> - Put 2TB drive in TIVO, boots with no issues, 318hrs
> 
> I tried to put partition 15 back to the original size and make apple_free be partition 17 but the TIVO was caught in the endless reboot loop. I can post partition maps for each step if anyone is interested. I'm currently trying to duplicate the process on a second 2TB drive with a 1GB swap space. It'll be a while before I can get the maps.


How did you manually re-create p15?


----------



## teiland

unitron said:


> How did you manually re-create p15?


I used pdisk on the MFS Live 1.4 boot CD. After deleting p15, I used the begin and length of the new apple_free p15 which was the deleted Media by Winffs + the old apple_free.


----------



## Tivoitis

richsadams said:


> That's more or less it...but don't modify or skip ANY of the steps in the instructions on the first post of this thread. Also when you perform the Supersize function do not use Windows drive management to get your computer to recognize your TiVo drive (it will wipe the boot sector)...Windows won't recognize your TiVo drive but the winMFS program will.
> 
> Section IV, #29 of the original upgrade FAQ outlines using wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark setting:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> Agreed, it would be nice if the OP would add those instructions to the FAQ.
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


Now added!



Stuxnet said:


> AND... reset AAM > 128 w/HDDScan or equivalent


JMFS includes hdparm which will let you set your AAM value. I have mine set to 128 (the "most-quiet" setting) as opposed to anything else (254 being "max-performance" and 0 being "disabled"). What other values are people using?


----------



## Tivoitis

teiland said:


> I finally did get my drive to expand with JMFS but I'm not sure how long it will work because I manually enlarged partition 15.


Let us know how it goes after you fill up your drive. When I first did my expansions, I recorded on both channels during the day just to fill up my drive faster, so that I could confirm the expansion really worked and to figure out exactly how much recording space I really had. Starting from scratch, it still took more than a week to fill it all up!


----------



## richsadams

Tivoitis said:


> Now added!
> 
> JMFS includes hdparm which will let you set your AAM value. I have mine set to 128 (the "most-quiet" setting) as opposed to anything else (254 being "max-performance" and 0 being "disabled"). What other values are people using?


Sweet! Much appreciated! :up:

Question, do you know if hdparm will adjust the AAM on recent WD20EARS drives? Apparently HDDScan no longer works on those drives. TIA!


----------



## Tivoitis

richsadams said:


> Sweet! Much appreciated! :up:
> 
> Question, do you know if hdparm will adjust the AAM on recent WD20EARS drives? Apparently HDDScan no longer works on those drives. TIA!


According to my notes, the drives that I had used were already at 128, so I never tried changing them.


----------



## richsadams

Tivoitis said:


> According to my notes, the drives that I had used were already at 128, so I never tried changing them.


Got it. Hopefully someone else will give it a try. HDDScan worked on my WD20EARS, but that was a while back so WD may have (yet again) changed something.


----------



## Philtho

Upgrade successful! Didn't run into any snags. WD20EARS is now in my Tivo HD.

The WD20EARS drive was dated 12/2010.

I booted the JMFS DVD and did the copy fine. Then expanded fine.
Within JMFS I did "hdparm -M /dev/sdb" and it showed 256 as the setting.
I did "hdparm -M 128 /dev/sdb" and it set it to 128.

I booted into Vista64 and ran WinMFS and turned on Supersize. No issue there.

I booted the WDIDLE3 dvd, and ran "wdidle3 /S300" and it set it fine.

I put the drive back into the Tivo, it booted up fine. My hours are at 300something ridiculous. I did a soft reboot and it came right back up again. I can't hear the new drive. Nice and quiet. Boxed up and labeled the original Tivo 160GB drive for any future catastrophes. 

Thanks to everyone who put this entire process together!

/happydance


----------



## richsadams

Philtho said:


> Upgrade successful! Didn't run into any snags. WD20EARS is now in my Tivo HD.
> 
> The WD20EARS drive was dated 12/2010.
> 
> I booted the JMFS DVD and did the copy fine. Then expanded fine.
> Within JMFS I did "hdparm -M /dev/sdb" and it showed 256 as the setting.
> I did "hdparm -M 128 /dev/sdb" and it set it to 128.
> 
> I booted into Vista64 and ran WinMFS and turned on Supersize. No issue there.
> 
> I booted the WDIDLE3 dvd, and ran "wdidle3 /S300" and it set it fine.
> 
> I put the drive back into the Tivo, it booted up fine. My hours are at 300something ridiculous. I did a soft reboot and it came right back up again. I can't hear the new drive. Nice and quiet. Boxed up and labeled the original Tivo 160GB drive for any future catastrophes.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who put this entire process together!
> 
> /happydance


Sah-weet! :up: Thanks for confirming that you were able to adjust the AAM on your WD20EARS using hdparm. I'd still like some feedback to find out if it works on more recently manufactured drives, but it's still good news.

Congratulations and enjoy!


----------



## tiassa

I'm about to stat on this journey (my THD+500gig MyDVR Expander is beginning to show very early signs of going south and I might as well go from 660MB to 2TB), and I noticed that my local computer store (Micro Center) doesn't have the WD20EARS in stock. Amazon does, but I when you go to the Amazon page they say "There is an upgraded version of this drive available" and point you to the WD20EARX http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce any info on this drive? I don't feel like being the pioneer on this one, so I may have to move the upgrade schedule in case WD is discontinuing the WD20EARS.


----------



## richsadams

tiassa said:


> I'm about to stat on this journey (my THD+500gig MyDVR Expander is beginning to show very early signs of going south and I might as well go from 660MB to 2TB), and I noticed that my local computer store (Micro Center) doesn't have the WD20EARS in stock. Amazon does, but I when you go to the Amazon page they say "There is an upgraded version of this drive available" and point you to the WD20EARX http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce any info on this drive? I don't feel like being the pioneer on this one, so I may have to move the upgrade schedule in case WD is discontinuing the WD20EARS.


It looks like the EARX series will eventually replace the EARS drives. The only spec difference I can find is the transfer rate. The EARX has the latest SATA 6Gb/s interface as opposed to the EARS' SATA 3Gb/s (which was the standard until just recently). TiVo doesn't get anywhere near saturating the current SATA3 spec so there should be no effect on how the EARX works in a TiVo, but AFAIK no one has tried it.

You could go ahead and buy the EARS and know that you'll be fine...or you could become a "TiVo Pioneer" (the T-shirts are very cool  )and go for the EARX!

You could also use a WD20EURS of course (saves having to adjust the AAM) but the cost is a bit higher.

Let us know what you decide to do and happy upgrading!

BTW, if anyone goes with a EARX drive, it would be very interesting to know if the Intellipark setting still needs adjusting to avoid the boot/restart issue. TIA!


----------



## lpwcomp

In addition to being a pioneer, he also has to be willing to pay 25% more for a feature that does him no good in a TiVo.


----------



## unitron

tiassa said:


> I'm about to stat on this journey (my THD+500gig MyDVR Expander is beginning to show very early signs of going south and I might as well go from 660MB to 2TB), and I noticed that my local computer store (Micro Center) doesn't have the WD20EARS in stock. Amazon does, but I when you go to the Amazon page they say "There is an upgraded version of this drive available" and point you to the WD20EARX http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce any info on this drive? I don't feel like being the pioneer on this one, so I may have to move the upgrade schedule in case WD is discontinuing the WD20EARS.


I'm pretty sure the retail box Caviar Green 2TB is going to be the WD20EACS, which is the 16MB cache "advanced format" 3 per second version, so the EARS is only going to be available as a bare drive. You should be able to get one from NewEgg or CompUSA.

I managed to grab a EADS (non-advanced format) before CompUSA ran out, and wasn't too impressed with the shipping packaging.

I don't know how well the Egg packs WD drives, but a pair of Samsungs I just got were very well done.


----------



## steve614

I'm in the process of upgrading a Tivo HD hard drive with JMFS.
I have successfully completed the the copy and expansion.

Now I'm trying to use winmfs to do the supersize, but the Tivo hard drive is not showing up.  (see attached image)

What do I do from here? 

Running Windows 7 with winmfs_beta9_3f.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


> I'm in the process of upgrading a Tivo HD hard drive with JMFS.
> I have successfully completed the the copy and expansion.
> 
> Now I'm trying to use winmfs to do the supersize, but the Tivo hard drive is not showing up.  (see attached image)
> 
> What do I do from here?
> 
> Running Windows 7 with winmfs_beta9_3f.


How is the drive connected?


----------



## dwit

steve614 said:


> I'm in the process of upgrading a Tivo HD hard drive with JMFS.
> I have successfully completed the the copy and expansion.
> 
> Now I'm trying to use winmfs to do the supersize, but the Tivo hard drive is not showing up.  (see attached image)
> 
> What do I do from here?
> 
> Running Windows 7 with winmfs_beta9_3f.


Try checking that little box in the bottom right corner that says "Show Mounted Drives".


----------



## richsadams

dwit said:


> Try checking that little box in the bottom right corner that says "Show Mounted Drives".


D'oh! Missed that.


----------



## steve614

Thanks for the quick replies. :up:

Apparently, you need to run winmfs "as administrator" in Windows 7.
Got the idea from the MFSLive website which states to do that for Vista. It didn't occur to me that you would have to do that in W7. 

So, I'll find out tomorrow if it all worked. Can't swap the drive tonight as there is a NASCAR race AND football on at the same time. 

ETA: I also changed the HD boot priority in BIOS, but I don't think that had any effect.


----------



## steve614

Success! Tivo booted up and shows 318 hr capacity of HD goodness.

Thanks again to the software writers for making it easy, :up: 
AND to the others who quickly help out those of us who experience user error.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


> Success! Tivo booted up and shows 318 hr capacity of HD goodness.
> 
> Thanks again to the software writers for making it easy, :up:
> AND to the others who quickly help out those of us who experience user error.


Very cool! Enjoy!


----------



## lew

richsadams said:


> Well, that's _very_ interesting indeed because AFAIK trying to adjust the Intellipark feature on a WD hard drive by connecting it via an eSATA enclosure has never worked in the past.
> 
> I have an Antec MX-1 eSATA enclosure. I may have to give wdidle3.exe a try as soon as I have time. If that's the case now, it would be a great option for folks that don't have direct access to a computer's MB SATA port.
> 
> What brand/model of eSATA enclosure did you use? TIA!


I have an eSATA port on my desktop case. The cable from the port goes to an open SATA jack on the MB. As expected there is no issue using it to adjust the parameters on WD drives.

I don't think the computer or software even knows the drive is physically outside of the computer and connected with a eSATA cable.

I didn't bother with an enclosure. I have a eSATA to SATA cable. I used the power cable and wall "brick" from a USB-SATA kit to power the drive. I just let the raw drive sit on top of the PC Case (anti-stack bag under the drive).

My new MB also has a eSATA port on the back panel. I guess I'll get a second cable before I use JMFS.


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> I have an eSATA port on my desktop case. The cable from the port goes to an open SATA jack on the MB. As expected there is no issue using it to adjust the parameters on WD drives.
> 
> I don't think the computer or software even knows the drive is physically outside of the computer and connected with a eSATA cable.
> 
> I didn't bother with an enclosure. I have a eSATA to SATA cable. I used the power cable and wall "brick" from a USB-SATA kit to power the drive. I just let the raw drive sit on top of the PC Case (anti-stack bag under the drive).
> 
> My new MB also has a eSATA port on the back panel. I guess I'll get a second cable before I use JMFS.


Hope that works. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## tiassa

BIG Problem!!!

I'm trying to use JMFS to copy my existing (working just fine) Tivo HD 160 Gig to a WD20EARS and it isn't working. JMFS Finds both drives and appears to start copying, but after a while it says "Could not verify MFS on Targer drive, you cannot expand this drive (or something similar) and if I go to the expansion menu it doesnt' see the the WD20EARS. I have both drives plugged into SATA connectors on the Motherboard of the computer. ONe more thing I noticed is that on the copying screen there is a line that says "time from last successful read" and that appears to be about as long (maybe s little shorter) than the time the the copy routine had been running. Does anyone have any ideas?


----------



## richsadams

tiassa said:


> BIG Problem!!!
> 
> I'm trying to use JMFS to copy my existing (working just fine) Tivo HD 160 Gig to a WD20EARS and it isn't working. JMFS Finds both drives and appears to start copying, but after a while it says "Could not verify MFS on Targer drive, you cannot expand this drive (or something similar) and if I go to the expansion menu it doesnt' see the the WD20EARS. I have both drives plugged into SATA connectors on the Motherboard of the computer. ONe more thing I noticed is that on the copying screen there is a line that says "time from last successful read" and that appears to be about as long (maybe s little shorter) than the time the the copy routine had been running. Does anyone have any ideas?


Is your TiVo OEM drive running the latest version? If not, you should reinstall it and force a few network connections until it updates.

Otherwise I might start fresh and see how it goes, but it sounds like data corruption may be halting the process. It could be the TiVo drive or the new drive, hard to say.

If that's the case it might be worthwhile to do two things. I'd start by slipping the original drive back into TiVo and running Kickstart 57 and 58. The I'd run KS 54 to see if any errors come back.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If all goes well and/or concurrently I'd run Western Digital's Lifeguard on the new drive to see if there are any issues.

Others may have some thoughts, but those are mine.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## unitron

tiassa said:


> BIG Problem!!!
> 
> I'm trying to use JMFS to copy my existing (working just fine) Tivo HD 160 Gig to a WD20EARS and it isn't working. JMFS Finds both drives and appears to start copying, but after a while it says "Could not verify MFS on Targer drive, you cannot expand this drive (or something similar) and if I go to the expansion menu it doesnt' see the the WD20EARS. I have both drives plugged into SATA connectors on the Motherboard of the computer. ONe more thing I noticed is that on the copying screen there is a line that says "time from last successful read" and that appears to be about as long (maybe s little shorter) than the time the the copy routine had been running. Does anyone have any ideas?


Like richsadams said, run the WD diagnostic software on that puppy. The long test.

Apparently WD's quality control on the 20EARS is slipping lately.


----------



## tiassa

Maybe it was a loose connection or something. I swapped the cables on the original and WD20EARS drives and everything seemed to run OK.

I've got everything back together and am now looking at the "Just a few minutes more" screen"

Wish me luck

<Hawk_Harrelson>You can put it (where "it"=318 HD hours) on the board YES!!</Hawk_Harrelson>


----------



## richsadams

tiassa said:


> Maybe it was a loose connection or something. I swapped the cables on the original and WD20EARS drives and everything seemed to run OK.
> 
> I've got everything back together and am now looking at the "Just a few minutes more" screen"
> 
> Wish me luck
> 
> <Hawk_Harrelson>You can put it (where "it"=318 HD hours) on the board YES!!</Hawk_Harrelson>


Well? I can't hold my breath much longer!! 

Oh...does that the last little entry mean success? Woo hoo! Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## tiassa

http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/soundboard

play clip #5

I've got to run wdidle but I'm going to let the new drive burn in for a while


----------



## richsadams

tiassa said:


> http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/soundboard
> 
> play clip #5
> 
> I've got to run wdidle but I'm going to let the new drive burn in for a while


Ah...got it! My brother-in-law would know that one for sure!


----------



## yukit

Doh! I just discovered that one of my TivoHD repeatedly rebooting & GSOD is a known issue with the Broflovski image.

I thought my drive was failing, but I was hoping to repair the drive to save the recorded shows, but I guess they are unrecoverable now. Oh well.

Time to give JMFS a try. Maybe next weekend.


----------



## tiassa

Just a couple of final notes on my upgrade:
The copy (once I got it working) took about 2 hours, this was with both drives connected to SATA ports on the motherboard of an Dual core AMD Phenom PC

Even thought my drive has a June 2011 manufacture date, it looks like I'm going to have to run wdidle on it, as I tried a "Warm boot" and it just sat there at the "powering up" screen it never got to the "Almost there" screen. 

The WD20EARS drive runs a lot cooler than the original WD drive in the Tivo it was noticeably cooler to the touch, I guess there is something to this whole "Green drive" thing.

I've got a decent set of pictures of the whole process (I took them so that I would know how things went back together), If people think it is worthwhile I'll try to figure a way to post them somewhere, although once you open up the Tivo it is pretty obvious what needs to be done.


----------



## steve614

tiassa said:


> Even thought my drive has a June 2011 manufacture date, it looks like I'm going to have to run wdidle on it, as I tried a "Warm boot" and it just sat there at the "powering up" screen it never got to the "Almost there" screen.


I didn't take any chances when I did my upgrade. I ran wdidle whether it was needed or not. Only added a couple of minutes to the upgrade process.
Next time you'll know better.


----------



## yukit

I can at least confirm that a newer WD20EARS drive (my build is Jun 16) does not support AAM. The hdparm command returns unsupported error.

I am still in a process of getting the new 2TB drive to work using JMFS, but my TivoHD claims there is a problem with the hardware, though the tuners are working fine.
My TivoHD's serial number is not recognized in the account info page. It is 652- with a bunch of zeroes.

I am trying C&DE now to see if it will do anything.
If this does not work, I am going back to my temporary 1GB drive.


What I also would like to find out is, what can I do with the old 2TB "Broflovski" image gone bad? It is showing the GSOD repeated rebooting symptom,but the drive itself is fine under diagnostics. It would be nice to "fix" the drive so I can at least plug it in my spare TivoHD to watch the rest of shows.


----------



## dwit

yukit said:


> I can at least confirm that a newer WD20EARS drive (my build is Jun 16) does not support AAM. The hdparm command returns unsupported error.
> 
> I am still in a process of getting the new 2TB drive to work using JMFS, but my TivoHD claims there is a problem with the hardware, though the tuners are working fine.
> My TivoHD's serial number is not recognized in the account info page. It is 652- with a bunch of zeroes.
> 
> I am trying C&DE now to see if it will do anything.
> If this does not work, I am going back to my temporary 1GB drive.
> 
> What I also would like to find out is, what can I do with the old 2TB "Broflovski" image gone bad? It is showing the GSOD repeated rebooting symptom,but the drive itself is fine under diagnostics. It would be nice to "fix" the drive so I can at least plug it in my spare TivoHD to watch the rest of shows.


I'm pretty sure you will find that the CDE is what was needed. Whenever you use another hard drive or image other than drive/image coupled to your Tivo's motherboard, CDE must be done.


----------



## jfh3

I thought I saw this earlier in the thread, but can't find.

Can I take a virgin Premiere 320 drive expand it to 2TB and use it in a Premiere XL without any trouble?

I know I will have to do a CADE on initial setup, but should there be any other issues?


----------



## yukit

dwit said:


> I'm pretty sure you will find that the CDE is what was needed. Whenever you use another hard drive or image other than drive/image coupled to your Tivo's motherboard, CDE must be done.


Yep. That was the issue. I must have used the original hard drive from another TivoHD for the source of JMFS. Thanks.


----------



## unitron

yukit said:


> I can at least confirm that a newer WD20EARS drive (my build is Jun 16) does not support AAM. The hdparm command returns unsupported error.
> 
> I am still in a process of getting the new 2TB drive to work using JMFS, but my TivoHD claims there is a problem with the hardware, though the tuners are working fine.
> My TivoHD's serial number is not recognized in the account info page. It is 652- with a bunch of zeroes.
> 
> I am trying C&DE now to see if it will do anything.
> If this does not work, I am going back to my temporary 1GB drive.
> 
> What I also would like to find out is, what can I do with the old 2TB "Broflovski" image gone bad? It is showing the GSOD repeated rebooting symptom,but the drive itself is fine under diagnostics. It would be nice to "fix" the drive so I can at least plug it in my spare TivoHD to watch the rest of shows.


You are talking about watching the shows on the actual TiVo on which they were recorded, right? Since those recordings are tied to the TiVo Service Number of the unit on which they were recorded?


----------



## Alvysyngr

I burned JMFS to a cd to boot to, added my TiVo s3 250gb drive and a 2tb wd drive, when I boot it goes through Linux boot up and get to a screen that says "there were no TiVo drives detected on your system. If you are planning to add a drive using USB do it now....". What am I doing wrong? Is there a certain sata order?


----------



## tiassa

Alvysyngr said:


> I burned JMFS to a cd to boot to, added my TiVo s3 250gb drive and a 2tb wd drive, when I boot it goes through Linux boot up and get to a screen that says "there were no TiVo drives detected on your system. If you are planning to add a drive using USB do it now....". What am I doing wrong? Is there a certain sata order?


I'm curious as to how you are connecting the SATA drives. Are you plugging them into the motherboard? If so, the first thing to do is see if the computer's BIOS recognizes the presence of the SATA drives. If you are using a USB to SATA converter, I would try plugging the drives into different USB ports, I've seen computers that have "issues" with USB drives plugged into one USB Port but not another.


----------



## Alvysyngr

tiassa said:


> I'm curious as to how you are connecting the SATA drives. Are you plugging them into the motherboard? If so, the first thing to do is see if the computer's BIOS recognizes the presence of the SATA drives. If you are using a USB to SATA converter, I would try plugging the drives into different USB ports, I've seen computers that have "issues" with USB drives plugged into one USB Port but not another.


I just read that the method I was trying doesn't work with my oled box. Off to find those directions. Sigh


----------



## richsadams

Alvysyngr said:


> I just read that the method I was trying doesn't work with my oled box. Off to find those directions. Sigh


Unfortunately there are no "directions" that will allow you to upgrade your original Series3 TiVo to anything more than 1.3TB's. Here are the instructions for upgrading the original Series3:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


----------



## tiassa

OK, with Tivo#2 happily upgraded to 2tb, it is time to deal with Tivo#1. Tivo#1 is a THD with the default 160gb drive and the 500gb My DVR Expander. It has been active for a little more than 3 years and is showing "distant early warning" signs of Disk trouble (minor recording glitches, some pixellation), which is why I upgraded Tivo#2 first (Tivo#2 is sort of the Backup, we use it to record when both tuners on #1 are occupied) if Tivo#1 went south I could swap it out)
My question is: IS there a way to upgrade a THD _and_ My DVR expander, can I plug them all into SATA ports on a PC and have JMFS "see" all of them? I'm thinking this is not the case, but I would be nice to keep the content that is currently on the drive (a lot of which is copy protected). I can physically swap the 2 Tivos, but then I'd have to rename them (they are currently named "office" and "Living Room") and change over all the season passes. 
I'm just looking for general advice nothing is critical at the moment so since I have time to think about what to do next I figured I'd get some advice from those who know more that I.


----------



## richsadams

tiassa said:


> OK, with Tivo#2 happily upgraded to 2tb, it is time to deal with Tivo#1. Tivo#1 is a THD with the default 160gb drive and the 500gb My DVR Expander. It has been active for a little more than 3 years and is showing "distant early warning" signs of Disk trouble (minor recording glitches, some pixellation), which is why I upgraded Tivo#2 first (Tivo#2 is sort of the Backup, we use it to record when both tuners on #1 are occupied) if Tivo#1 went south I could swap it out)
> My question is: IS there a way to upgrade a THD _and_ My DVR expander, can I plug them all into SATA ports on a PC and have JMFS "see" all of them? I'm thinking this is not the case, but I would be nice to keep the content that is currently on the drive (a lot of which is copy protected).


 Your thinking is correct. You have to properly divorce your Expander prior to upgrading. Unfortunately you cannot save the recordings made from the point that the Expander was attached. You could transfer your (non copy-protected) recordings to your "new" TiVo. You could also save them to your computer via TiVo Desktop or a third-party application like KMTTG and then moving them back later (although transferring them is much easier unless you want to archive any on your computer).



tiassa said:


> I can physically swap the 2 Tivos, but then I'd have to rename them (they are currently named "office" and "Living Room") and change over all the season passes.


 That's exactly what I've done a couple of times. Renaming them is easy on tivo.com (give them a day or so to reflect the name change). If you use the Season Pass Manager on tivo.com you can easily copy SP's from one TiVo to the other...takes only a couple of minutes.


----------



## mattack

tiassa said:


> My question is: IS there a way to upgrade a THD _and_ My DVR expander, can I plug them all into SATA ports on a PC and have JMFS "see" all of them?


Wait, not with jmfs, but can't he use the old "two drives to one" upgrade process?


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Wait, not with jmfs, but can't he use the old "two drives to one" upgrade process?


If you mean combining a DVR Expander and and internal drive's recordings that's never been an option AFAIK. Did I miss something along the way?


----------



## lpwcomp

richsadams said:


> If you mean combining a DVR Expander and and internal drive's recordings that's never been an option AFAIK. Did I miss something along the way?


He's talking about using the same MFS Tools method that was used when you had a two internal drive TiVo and wanted to go (back) to one (larger) internal. Probably won't work, but has anyone tried it?


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> He's talking about using the same MFS Tools method that was used when you had a two internal drive TiVo and wanted to go (back) to one (larger) internal. Probably won't work, but has anyone tried it?


Ah, got it. Oh yes...everything under the sun was attempted to combine Expander and internal drive recordings (numerous threads and posts over at mfslive.org/forums) but no one succeeded to my knowledge.

The difference is that recordings on dual drive setups went to drive A or drive B, so it was basically "stand alone" data that could be combined.

In the case of external TiVo drives, the data is striped across both drives (in compliance with legal requirements to prevent people moving recordings from one machine to another) and in the end could not be "married".


----------



## mattack

Oh, I thought external drive Tivo drives were essentially the same as two-drive-internal old TiVos (except SATA vs IDE).


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Oh, I thought external drive Tivo drives were essentially the same as two-drive-internal old TiVos (except SATA vs IDE).


Unfortunately not.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Oh, I thought external drive Tivo drives were essentially the same as two-drive-internal old TiVos (except SATA vs IDE).


They (or the content providers who would sue them into oblivion) are deathly afraid of an option they think will allow separating the recording from the recording device, so once an external drive is added each recording gets spread across both, apparently. Sort of like RAID striping.

It strikes me as a stupid and unneccessary complication, since treating it the same as a second internal drive would still leave you with recordings tied to the device (which is why you can't move an internal drive from one TiVo to another of the same model and watch recordings made on the first on the second), and anyone who can "decode" those recordings wouldn't think twice about opening up the TiVo and doing the same with the recordings on it.


----------



## yukit

yukit said:


> I can at least confirm that a newer WD20EARS drive (my build is Jun 16) does not support AAM. The hdparm command returns unsupported error.


Just to add one more data point on the recent WD20EARS drive, soft-reboot did work a couple of times while I was trying to get the drive working, but it did lock up at least once during a soft-reboot, so it is probably a good pre-caution to do wdidle3 on the drive to be safe. I am running 11.0k version.


----------



## gr8dude

bhiga said:


> Thank you for this! Successfully upgraded from a WD10EVDS to a WD20EURS on my TiVo HD by following the unstructions.


Field report from Australia: Works for an Australian Tivo HD. Followed the instructions from the first post in this thread and the tips in other posts (including being sure to do "Run as Administrator" when running WinMFS at the end for the Supersize).

I had upgrading the TiVo originally back in 2008 to a 1TB WD10EVCS with WinMFS. The other day after reading this thread bought a new 2TB WD20EURS. I checked the drive first with the WDidle util boot CD and did need to change the timeout to 300.

Hard drives were connected by motherboard SATA ports on a Core 2 Duo Windows 7 machine (not that the installed OS matters for JMFS!)

Then used JMFS for the (very slow!) copy from the WD10EVCS to the WD20EURS and then the expand (very quick). I started the machine and left it and did other things and it took somewhere around 6-8 hours. Then rebooted and did the WinMFS Supersize.

No errors during the copy, and the TiVo is now reporting double the space (400 hours HD - HD is a different format in Australia, so hours numbers are not the same).

Quite easy really - probably helped by previous WinMFS use, and making sure I read the first post of this thread very carefully to avoid pitfalls.

I do have a suggestion for the insructions. Since with JMFS 1.04 it is now possible to use it to do this upgrade most of the time, should the line _"Given our current experience, it doesn't seem possible to upgrade from an expanded drive to a 1.5TB/2.0TB drive."_ have a STRIKETHROUGH put over it, and a note added at the end like "(no longer always true, please see below)"

What do you guys think? That line confused me initially.

Thank you to Tivoitis for starting this very useful thread and all who have added to it!


----------



## tiassa

steve614 said:


> I didn't take any chances when I did my upgrade. I ran wdidle whether it was needed or not. Only added a couple of minutes to the upgrade process.
> Next time you'll know better.


Yeah, I misread the FAQ -- I thought that drives AFTER a certain date were OK, so I wouldn't need wdidle, now I see that all new drives need it.

No big deal, I didn't even have to take the drive out of the Tivo, I was able to connect up the drive to another box while it was still in the Tivo case (with the cover off obviously).

One small non-tivo concern tho, the box I connected the Tivo to already had a WD drive in it and wdidle ran on both drives. Does anyone know the default wdidle setting, so I can set it back? I don't think this is going to be a big deal as that computer doesn't get turned off (it's my Blackberry Server), but there is probably a reason that WD set the default in the first place.


----------



## dwit

tiassa said:


> Yeah, I misread the FAQ -- I thought that drives AFTER a certain date were OK, so I wouldn't need wdidle, now I see that all new drives need it.
> 
> No big deal, I didn't even have to take the drive out of the Tivo, I was able to connect up the drive to another box while it was still in the Tivo case (with the cover off obviously).
> 
> One small non-tivo concern tho, the box I connected the Tivo to already had a WD drive in it and wdidle ran on both drives. Does anyone know the default wdidle setting, so I can set it back? I don't think this is going to be a big deal as that computer doesn't get turned off (it's my Blackberry Server), but there is probably a reason that WD set the default in the first place.


I believe what the default setting depends on the type of hard drive. It appears (to me) that all the wd green drives are set to a default of 8 sec. This apparently gives maximum power savings, but with a cost of theoretically decreasing the drives life span. Seems that the black drives will have a default of disabled. Makes sense.

I get the feeling from the following video that it is probably just best to disable the idle timer of wd drives. Note that for some drives(most newer), "disable" actually results in an idle timer setting of 3720 sec (62 min).


----------



## prpjam

Does anyone know if I used a 2.5 TB drive would I get slightly more space up to 2.19 TB?

Or, do you have any theoretical thoughts on this? Thank you!


----------



## unitron

prpjam said:


> Does anyone know if I used a 2.5 TB drive would I get slightly more space up to 2.19 TB?
> 
> Or, do you have any theoretical thoughts on this? Thank you!


My theoretical thought is that 2.5TB drives will cost you a lot more per TB than a 2TB drive, and that with so many fewer of them out there there are less (edit:that should probably be fewer, since data is--are?--the plural of datum and a datum is discrete and countable) data about the reliability of particular models.

I'd be curious, though, to know if someone could get that to work (2TB+ on a 2.5), and then dd it to a 3, so that it had a 2.5 partition table or bootpage or whatever, and get the 3 to work.

Does anyone know if the 1.5s that were used to get 1+ previously wound up with all of the unused space as an Apple_Free_Partition in the partiton map or not?


----------



## scooterboy

Why is this copying so slowly?

Nutshell: I have an original 1TB drive in my TivoHD, upgraded from the stock drive with WinMFS. Been working great for over a year, but I started to hear some clicking I didn't like. So rather than wait for it to fail, I bought the Hitachi 2TB drive that some others here have bought.

I burned JMFS to a CD, got hold of an unused PC with SATA connections on the MB, and hooked up the drives. Booted to the CD, no problem. Started the copy and at the rate it's going it will take about 5 hours to finish.

I thought it should only take around 2 hours? Did I do something wrong?


----------



## unitron

scooterboy said:


> Why is this copying so slowly?
> 
> Nutshell: I have an original 1TB drive in my TivoHD, upgraded from the stock drive with WinMFS. Been working great for over a year, but I started to hear some clicking I didn't like. So rather than wait for it to fail, I bought the Hitachi 2TB drive that some others here have bought.
> 
> I burned JMFS to a CD, got hold of an unused PC with SATA connections on the MB, and hooked up the drives. Booted to the CD, no problem. Started the copy and at the rate it's going it will take about 5 hours to finish.
> 
> I thought it should only take around 2 hours? Did I do something wrong?


Any chance you somehow turned off DMA?


----------



## dwit

scooterboy said:


> Why is this copying so slowly?
> 
> Nutshell: I have an original 1TB drive in my TivoHD, upgraded from the stock drive with WinMFS. Been working great for over a year, but I started to hear some clicking I didn't like. So rather than wait for it to fail, I bought the Hitachi 2TB drive that some others here have bought.
> 
> I burned JMFS to a CD, got hold of an unused PC with SATA connections on the MB, and hooked up the drives. Booted to the CD, no problem. Started the copy and at the rate it's going it will take about 5 hours to finish.
> 
> I thought it should only take around 2 hours? Did I do something wrong?


Consider the *Source*

Probably takes about 2 hours using an original Tivo HD *160 GB* drive as the source. A *1 TB* source drive may very well take a lot longer.

Using JMFS for doing *Premiere* upgrades on 3 hard drives(2x2TB drives, 1x320GB) took *between 2 and 3 hours *on 2 different computers.

This was using an original Premiere *320 GB* drive as the source drive each time.

Sounds like that may very well be about right.


----------



## scooterboy

dwit said:


> Consider the *Source*
> 
> Probably takes about 2 hours using an original Tivo HD *160 GB* drive as the source. A *1 TB* source drive may very well take a lot longer.
> 
> Using JMFS for doing *Premiere* upgrades on 3 hard drives(2x2TB drives, 1x320GB) took *between 2 and 3 hours *on 2 different computers.
> 
> This was using an original Premiere *320 GB* drive as the source drive each time.
> 
> Sounds like that may very well be about right.


Ah - ok. Thanks for that clarification. I thought people were copying from 1TB to 2TB in 2 hours. It seems to be taking 3 minutes or so per 10K. If that's a typical copy rate, then I'm good.


----------



## dwit

scooterboy said:


> Ah - ok. Thanks for that clarification. I thought people were copying from 1TB to 2TB in 2 hours. It seems to be taking 3 minutes or so per 10K. If that's a typical copy rate, then I'm good.


I'm actually not saying that is the reason it is taking so long. Just that it could be.

Let us know how things turn out.


----------



## lpwcomp

scooterboy said:


> Ah - ok. Thanks for that clarification. I thought people were copying from 1TB to 2TB in 2 hours. It seems to be taking 3 minutes or so per 10K. If that's a typical copy rate, then I'm good.


So, it will be done around the middle of April next year? Sweet!:up:


----------



## scooterboy

lpwcomp said:


> So, it will be done around the middle of April next year? Sweet!:up:


Ha! I meant 3 minutes per 10K *MB*!


----------



## scooterboy

dwit said:


> I'm actually not saying that is the reason it is taking so long. Just that it could be.
> 
> Let us know how things turn out.


I think you were correct. I just looked at the youtube video of the Premiere upgrade from a 320GB drive and it took over 2 hours for that to copy, so 5+ hours to copy 1TB sounds reasonable.


----------



## dwit

scooterboy said:


> I think you were correct. I just looked at the youtube video of the Premiere upgrade from a 320GB drive and it took over 2 hours for that to copy, so 5+ hours to copy 1TB sounds reasonable.


It does(sound reasonable).

And like you have referenced, after 20 - 30 minutes or so, I was able to see the rate of progression, and pretty closely estimate how long the copy actually would take.


----------



## scooterboy

Update: Success!

After about 6 hours, the copy finished and I expanded the drive.

I made a brief attempt to connect it to my Win XP machine so I could supersize it with WinMFS, but WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive, so I bagged it. 287 hours is enough.

Put it in the Tivo and it fired up the first time. No problem with the cablecard - that came up fine too.

The Hitachi drive couldn't be quieter.

The most difficult part of the whole process (other than my miscalculation of the copy time) was getting the damn cover off the tivo. The right side of it just hung up and didn't want to come off. 

Thanks to comer for a great tool. Donation in the works...


----------



## prpjam

Thank you for your thoughts. I was not worried about the price difference ($95 vs $120). I figure that is a cheap amount versus all the money in the unit and the lifetime service. Your comment on reliability is worth considering.

I was going to use WD20EURS or WD25EURS. I will look into the Hitachi as well.

So, I am still hoping that someone might be able to comment on the possibility of going over 2TB to 2.19TB in an HD Tivo. I would like the extra capacity.


----------



## steve614

scooterboy said:


> I made a brief attempt to connect it to my Win XP machine so I could supersize it with WinMFS, but WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive, so I bagged it. 287 hours is enough.


Did you run WinMFS "as administrator"? If not, that's probably why WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive. I ran into this when doing my upgrade.


----------



## scooterboy

steve614 said:


> Did you run WinMFS "as administrator"? If not, that's probably why WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive. I ran into this when doing my upgrade.


Yes I did, but it still couldn't see it. I was using one of those cheap SATA/USB gadgets though, so that may have been the reason. Maybe I'll try it again someday, but I've already doubled my capacity so that should hold me for a while.


----------



## tiassa

scooterboy said:


> Yes I did, but it still couldn't see it. I was using one of those cheap SATA/USB gadgets though, so that may have been the reason. Maybe I'll try it again someday, but I've already doubled my capacity so that should hold me for a while.


You don't need to "Run as administrator" using XP you can run it from an account that has Administrative privileges. Note that this is NOT the case with Vista and Win7.

The other thing to check is the little box that says "Show Connected drives" on the Win MFS main screen. If that isn't checked you won't see the Tivo drive(s)


----------



## scooterboy

tiassa said:


> You don't need to "Run as administrator" using XP you can run it from an account that has Administrative privileges. Note that this is NOT the case with Vista and Win7.
> 
> The other thing to check is the little box that says "Show Connected drives" on the Win MFS main screen. If that isn't checked you won't see the Tivo drive(s)


I did have that box checked. The only drive it found was a secondary IDE drive. I'm pretty confident the SATA/USB gadget I was trying to use was the problem.


----------



## silentguy

I successfully upgraded using these instructions.



The only thing I was not able to do was AAM.
The WD 20EARS i bought from Newegg for $80 did not support AAM

It seems the Firmware on the newer WD drives doesnt support this.
I tried with the Hitachi tool, and HDDscan but both would not work.
Also hdparam -M /dev/sda report that Acousitc Management was not supported.



I dont think it is a big deal, as the drive does not seem to be that noisy.

I now have 318 hour HD, and 2777 hours SD.
Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread.

------------------------------------------
Heres what I used.

1.	I used a WD20EARS drive. 2.0TB SATA , $80 from Newegg
2.	wdidle3 boot cd
3.	JMFS 1.04 boot cd
4.	WinMFS from windows to backup files from original 160GB Tivo SATA drive
5.	WinMFS Supersize command 


I followed instructions from the first post in this thread.

I did have issues with an old PC recognizing SATA drives, but using a different PC solved this.

Also, I was upgrading an original TIVO 160GB drive, and JMFS worked fine fo this. I guess I might have been able to use WINMFS instead as the drive was not already expanded.

I should have rememberd to delete items from my Tivo Recently Deleted folder, as that would have sped up the copy.
It took about 1 hour plus to copy all the data, which was about 80GB is my guess.


----------



## scooterboy

scooterboy said:


> The Hitachi drive couldn't be quieter.


I meant to come back to this.

After I fired it back up, it turns out that the reason that "the Hitachi drive couldn't have been quieter" was that the rear fan wasn't running. Made it very quiet indeed!

After it was up for a few hours, I felt safe enough to put the rear screws back in the cover. It was then I noticed how hot the case was directly above the HD.

I lifted the cover up and saw that the fan was perfectly still. I flicked it with my finger and it immediately started spinning. I then checked the temp in the System menu and it was 71 degrees. 

After a while the temp came back down to normal and I hoped it was a fluke. But I frequently checked the temperature after that and when it happened again, I ordered a new fan from Weaknees. When I removed the original fan, I noticed that the red power lead had slipped out of its channel to the front of the fan and had been pinched between the fan and the rear case grill when originally installed. The pinched portion was really flattened.

Installed the new fan and I've been fine since. But it does make me wonder how long that fan had been malfunctioning and if heat was the real reason my 1TB HD had started to make clicking noises in the first place.


----------



## dwit

scooterboy said:


> I meant to come back to this.
> 
> After I fired it back up, it turns out that the reason that "the Hitachi drive couldn't have been quieter" was that the rear fan wasn't running. Made it very quiet indeed!
> 
> After it was up for a few hours, I felt safe enough to put the rear screws back in the cover. It was then I noticed how hot the case was directly above the HD.
> 
> I lifted the cover up and saw that the fan was perfectly still. I flicked it with my finger and it immediately started spinning. I then checked the temp in the System menu and it was 71 degrees.
> 
> After a while the temp came back down to normal and I hoped it was a fluke. But I frequently checked the temperature after that and when it happened again, I ordered a new fan from Weaknees. When I removed the original fan, I noticed that the red power lead had slipped out of its channel to the front of the fan and had been pinched between the fan and the rear case grill when originally installed. The pinched portion was really flattened.
> 
> Installed the new fan and I've been fine since. But it does make me wonder how long that fan had been malfunctioning and if heat was the real reason my 1TB HD had started to make clicking noises in the first place.


Let that be a learning experience: Checking the temperature and checking for a spinning fan should *always* be among the first steps taken when troubleshooting issues with the Tivo(any other type computer also, electronics, etc).


----------



## Soapm

silentguy said:


> I now have 318 hour HD, and 2777 hours SD.
> Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread.


Congrats!!! You have a 2TB in a TivoHD... Super sized...


----------



## m0n0xIDE

Just another data point to add to the conversation: I also recently purchased the WD20EARS drive (mfg May 2011), however, I was successful in changing the AAM setting to 128 using the latest version of HDDScan (3.3). For those of you having trouble, make sure you have the latest version of the software and remember to run it as an administrator (if you have Windows 7, like me). 

Hopefully the rest of my upgrade will be this trouble free.


----------



## teiland

Tivoitis said:


> Let us know how it goes after you fill up your drive. When I first did my expansions, I recorded on both channels during the day just to fill up my drive faster, so that I could confirm the expansion really worked and to figure out exactly how much recording space I really had. Starting from scratch, it still took more than a week to fill it all up!


OK, to follow up on my post. After 2 months, I started getting the "Guide has run out" message and then the S03 error on my TIVO HD. I received the same error when I had my drive expanded by ebay dude. I used the ebay dude twice and eventually the 2TB drive always gets the S03 error. I suspect the S03 error is due to the 128M swap space but never figured out to expand the drive and swap space. I think I have a solution now.

I just expanded my drive again but with a 1G swap file. This method works if you have a 16th partition called Apple_free that is preventing JMFS from expanding your drive.

1. Make sure the source drive is up to date with all updates and guide info before you begin.

2. Copy the 1TB drive to 2TB drive using Winmfs and a custom swap size. I used 1G, enter "1024" in the box. Do not expand when the mfscopy completes.

3. Download a hex editor called iBored, I used ver 1.1.8. This program lets you directly edit the partition map on the disk. This software has templates and understands the Apple Partition Map format. You can view the partition data with the tool while you make changes. The partition map is stored as 1 partition per block so go to block 16 (partition 16, the Apple_free partition) and erase block 16 only. The tool has an erase block feature so erase block 16 length 1. Check the length it defaults to the whole drive. Now, go to partitions 1-15 and change the total number of partitions from 16 to 15, you have to write each block when the change is made. When you are done, you will have a 2TB drive with 15 partitions. Be extremely careful using this tool, it is very powerful!

4. Use JMFS to expand the drive to the full 2TB capacity.

5. Use MFS Live 1.4 and run pdisk on the new 2TB drive. Change something so you can write the partition map back to the drive. I changed the name of the /var partition to "/var". You need pdisk to think something was changed so it will write the partition map. Write the changes.

6. Install the 2TB drive in the TiVo.

Initial 1TB map:
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)

After mfscopy before deleting partion 16:
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] (1000.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 930.7G)

Partition 16 deleted with iBored:
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1  [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)

Final partition map after JMFS expand:
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 930.6G)


----------



## Soapm

Not sure what the advantage is but I guess now you'll have to fill up the drive and see if it holds...


----------



## steffen707

New to the forum!

I've moded 2 tivos already. My current setup is a THD with 1TB drive. I'm almost maxing this out and want 2TB. I know I can just add another 1TB external but that seams like a lot of trouble if I can just use JMFS to copy-expand and WINMFS to supersize it.

My question is that it looks like a few guys have upgraded their THD from 160GIG to 1TB and then upgraded the 1TB to 2TB without having to lose all their shows.

Is the only thing screwing this up the apple partion that's created when people originally used WINMFS to upgrade from the original 160gig?


----------



## steffen707

2nd question is a follow up from above where the guy asked if he can use a 2.5TB drive to gain more space. Does this work? Will JMFS expand it past the 2TB barrier and make it like 2.26TB?

I DON'T CARE ABOUT COST! I just want to know if it will give that extra .26TB of space. For some people its worth the extra $20 or $30 bucks.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

steffen707 said:


> 2nd question is a follow up from above where the guy asked if he can use a 2.5TB drive to gain more space. Does this work? Will JMFS expand it past the 2TB barrier and make it like 2.26TB?
> 
> I DON'T CARE ABOUT COST! I just want to know if it will give that extra .26TB of space. For some people its worth the extra $20 or $30 bucks.


Well, if cost is no object, you can always add an additional TiVo box--get and subscribe a new Premiere and you'll get not just more hard drive space but two more tuners (four more if you go with Premiere Elite), and upgrading that new box is very easy (as you know). Two TiVos on one TV is an easy setup unless you don't have a free input on your TV or receiver.

But as far as which TiVos other than Premiere that JMFS works with, that I'm not sure of. All the Series 3 and HDTiVo upgrades I did were just with MFSLive, not JMFS.


----------



## steffen707

ThreeSoFar said:


> Well, if cost is no object, you can always add an additional TiVo box--get and subscribe a new Premiere and you'll get not just more hard drive space but two more tuners (four more if you go with Premiere Elite), and upgrading that new box is very easy (as you know). Two TiVos on one TV is an easy setup unless you don't have a free input on your TV or receiver.
> 
> But as far as which TiVos other than Premiere that JMFS works with, that I'm not sure of. All the Series 3 and HDTiVo upgrades I did were just with MFSLive, not JMFS.


Your joke of a response wasn't very helpful. I meant the cost of a 2.5TB vs 2TB drive is what I don't care about. i.e. the $20-$30 more for the extra .5TB

Anybody else know if it will give you that extra .2TB of space?

Also on a typical 2TB drive I bet you lose a lot of space to formatting don't you? I think my 2TB drive on my computer ended up with only 1.87TB of usable space.


----------



## steffen707

teiland said:


> I think, when expanding from stock to 1TB using WinMFS some drives end up with this little apple_free space. I believe these are the drives that cannot be expanded any further with WinMFS or JMFS. WinMFS cannot add the required 2 partitions and apparently JMFS thinks apple_free is a real partition and leaves it as partiton 16 on the expanded drive which results in 17 partitions like this:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 895.5K)
> 17 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)
> 
> However, I finally did get my drive to expand with JMFS but I'm not sure how long it will work because I manually enlarged partition 15. Here is what I did:
> - Copy 1TB drive to 2TB with JMFS copy, do not expand
> - Delete partition 15 "MFS Media by Winmfs"
> - Recreate partition 15 "MFS Media by Winmfs" but include the apple_free space (no more apple_free partition 16)
> - Put 2TB drive in THD, it thinks the external drive is missing, let it repair the problem
> - Expand 2TB drive with JMFS, no errors
> - Put 2TB drive in TIVO, boots with no issues, 318hrs
> 
> I tried to put partition 15 back to the original size and make apple_free be partition 17 but the TIVO was caught in the endless reboot loop. I can post partition maps for each step if anyone is interested. I'm currently trying to duplicate the process on a second 2TB drive with a 1GB swap space. It'll be a while before I can get the maps.


After trying this have you intentionally recorded enough shows to fill up the drive to see if there are any ill side effects?

Has anybody used a stock 160gig to copy and expand to a 2tb internal THD and then filled up the drive to see if there are any ill side effects?


----------



## Soapm

steffen707 said:


> After trying this have you intentionally recorded enough shows to fill up the drive to see if there are any ill side effects?
> 
> Has anybody used a stock 160gig to copy and expand to a 2tb internal THD and then filled up the drive to see if there are any ill side effects?


Yes, lots of people have . Just use jfms and follow the instructions in the upgrade thread.


----------



## teiland

steffen707 said:


> New to the forum!
> 
> I've moded 2 tivos already. My current setup is a THD with 1TB drive. I'm almost maxing this out and want 2TB. I know I can just add another 1TB external but that seams like a lot of trouble if I can just use JMFS to copy-expand and WINMFS to supersize it.
> 
> My question is that it looks like a few guys have upgraded their THD from 160GIG to 1TB and then upgraded the 1TB to 2TB without having to lose all their shows.
> 
> Is the only thing screwing this up the apple partion that's created when people originally used WINMFS to upgrade from the original 160gig?


Yes, when I upgraded from 160GB to 1TB I had a 16th apple_free partition at the end of the drive. JMFS sees this a real partition and will not expand the drive any further. If you only have 15 partitions, JMFS is all you need.

I've expand my drive from 1TB to 2TB 3 times. I used ebay dude twice and JMFS once. Eventually the guide stops updating and I get the S03 error. Once that happens, you're hosed. I wanted to enlarge the swap partition to 1GB at the same time, that's why I had to use the more involved method. Time will tell if the larger swap partition fixes the S03 error. It seems that many people have no issues using the small swap space. I have well over 100 season passes, probably as many wishlists and hundreds of saved shows. I don't know if that is typical of other users.

About your second question, I think you probably can go >2TB. If I didn't already have two 2TB drives, I would have tried with a 2.5TB.

I've been running for about 2 weeks, I'll post if I have any issues.


----------



## steffen707

Well i pulled my winmfs upgraded THD 1TB drive and checked it with winMFS and it has 15 partitions.








By the lurking i've been doing I think that since I don't have the 16th partition with the 15th partion as the "apple" one I should be good to use JMFS to copy/expand, and then winmfs to supersize?

I have 2 backup 2TB drives to my desktops 2TB "data" drive. And since i don't have any patience i'm stealing one of the backups and trying the upgrade tonight. I should have results in the morning.

I was planning on buying a 2.5TB drive to get maximum 2.2TB space, but I don't feel like waiting. I might try the 2.5TB in a few weeks.

Thanks Comer and Teiland!


----------



## Soapm

First thing to do is hook the system drive and boot it with jfms to see if it recognizes it as a Tivo drive. If it recognizes it then you're good to go.


----------



## steffen707

Okay I did copy and expand with JMFS and made a boot disc with wdidle3.exe on it. I've read a few different steps from here. One says to typ[e wdidle3 /d and then it says idle timer is set to 62 mins, that fround from here
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

But i've also read i should type wdidle3 /s300 so that "idle3 timer is enabled and set to 300 seconds"

Which is right, or do they both work?


----------



## steffen707

Well here is a recap, I used JMFS to copy and expand. Lucky for me I didn't have the 16th partition.

I tried using "hdparm -M <device>". to change the AAM settings to 128 on my drive but I couldn't get it to work. I could get it to display info about my drive by typing hdparm -i, but with -m I could not get it to set the AAM to 128.

I tried hddscan as well, ran it in administrator mode and got an error.

Next i downloaded the hitachi feature tools and was able to set AAM to 128. I thought i read info somewhere that setting this feature can decrease the life of the drive, any truth to that?

Finally I booted off my wdidle3 boot cd and ran "wdidle3 /d". I read on other places that you're suppose to type wdidle3 /s300. Don't know if it matters. (Later I did a menu soft reboot and it booted up just fine.)

I then used winmfs to supersize, threw the drive into Tina (my tivo's name), and now I have 318 hours in the information screen.


----------



## Stuxnet

@steffen707: Congrats. Don't worry over the WDIDLE3 switches. You can always change that if you choose w/o upsetting your TiVo. FWIW, there's no lack of opinion and speculation between /D and /S300 (I chose the latter, lol). Enjoy your "unlimited" recording capacity


----------



## steffen707

One thing i'm confused about. If JMFS can expand a THD drive to more than 1TB, what is limiting the winmfs software to 1TB? Does the developer of winmfs just not want to alter the code to make this work?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

steffen707 said:


> One thing i'm confused about. If JMFS can expand a THD drive to more than 1TB, what is limiting the winmfs software to 1TB? Does the developer of winmfs just not want to alter the code to make this work?


The difference is probably the "supersize". That's recovering some of the drive that TiVo had set aside for its own use (commercials, etc.) and using it instead for shows.


----------



## lpwcomp

steffen707 said:


> One thing i'm confused about. If JMFS can expand a THD drive to more than 1TB, what is limiting the winmfs software to 1TB? Does the developer of winmfs just not want to alter the code to make this work?


I suspect you are correct in that.



ThreeSoFar said:


> The difference is probably the "supersize". That's recovering some of the drive that TiVo had set aside for its own use (commercials, etc.) and using it instead for shows.


That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever since, after using JMFS to create a 2TB drive for a THD, you must use WinMFS to do the supersize.


----------



## prpjam

I'm stuck. Bottom line, the upgraded Tivo keeps rebooting even after using WDIDLE3.

I have an HD Tivo (not the older, original Series 3). 

I am trying to use JMFS to upgrade to a WD25EURS drive. Using JMFS, I copied the image from the original drive, and then I expanded the new drive. All that reported that it worked flawlessly. I supersized the drive using WINMFS. That went fine, too. Then I ran WDIDLE3 and disabled the timer. Then I used the /R function to check, and the timer was reported as disabled.

So, I put the new drive in the Tivo, and it just kept rebooting. 

I realized that I was using WDIDLE3 version 1.0, so I got WDIDLE version 1.05 and put it on a floppy. I tried that using both the /D setting and the /S300 setting. With either setting, the Tivo keeps rebooting.

I have upgraded six HD Tivos and several more Series 2 Tivos in the past, using 1.5 TB WD green drives, so I do have experience with WINMFS and WDIDLE3. 

Of course, this is a WD25EURS drive, not a WD20EURS drive. Using JMFS, with the WD25EURS drive, the expansion did report more than 2TB for those who were wondering. I think it said 2.19 TB.

I just bought this drive about a month ago, so its manufacture date must be in 2011.

Any ideas on the rebooting? PLEASE!!


----------



## L David Matheny

prpjam said:


> I am trying to use JMFS to upgrade to a WD25EURS drive. Using JMFS, I copied the image from the original drive, and then I expanded the new drive. All that reported that it worked flawlessly. I supersized the drive using WINMFS. That went fine, too. Then I ran WDIDLE3 and disabled the timer. Then I used the /R function to check, and the timer was reported as disabled.
> 
> So, I put the new drive in the Tivo, and it just kept rebooting.


I think I've read here that no current TiVo models can address a drive larger than 2TB (or maybe slightly more) even if you don't expect to use all of it. It may be an OS limitation. I don't remember whether rebooting is the expected failure mode. If you can get your hands on a 2TB drive, try using that.


----------



## unitron

Well, I downloaded and burned a copy of jmfs rev 104 to try to use one of the $75 2TB Seagates Best Buy had on sale last week in an S3 HD I recently acquired (had to fix the power supply first).

I tried using WinMFS to copy a stock S3 HD (TCD652160) 's 160GB hard drive to a 2TB drive, increasing the swap partition to 1GB (1024MB), and then letting it expand when it offered to, and what I wound up with was the partitions from the stock drive (with the bigger swap), plus another partition pair with the media one being about 1TB. In other words, approximately 1TB + 160GB

The mfsinfo of WinMFS showed the partition layout with the 1TB as the last partition, and no "apple free" partition to account for the last 800-something GB. I don't know if that's because WinMFS gave it a partition table/map that was misinformed as to the drive's true size or what.

Tried upsizing that with jmfs 104, thinking I'd beaten the "apple free" catch, but apparently it (jmfs) choked on the reported size/actual size discrepancy.


Okay, so took the original 160GB drive, used backup pipe restore off the MFS Live cd with the swap partition option set to 1024MB and included the expand option going onto a 500GB drive.

That gave me the 1TB swap, 6MFS partitions (3 pairs), and no Apple Free partition on the end of the drive. Or so I thought, didn't show up when I ran pdisk -l 

Used jmfs to copy the 500 to a 2TB, and when it finally finished, I let it do the expansion as well.

Got the original 15 partitions, a damned Apple Free partition of 4.0M, and a 17th MFS media partition of 1.4 or thereabouts TB.

Put it in the HD, booted, got the "missing external" screen, told it to divorce it, it did, rebooted, seems to work fine, but sysinfo only shows 70 HD hours or 606 SD hours. I'm guessing what it divorced was the 17th partition jmfs added.

Unless comer releases an update with a choose your swap size option, looks like I need a 161GB drive to act as man in the middle. There's probably a Maxtor 160GB that's just bigger enough than the WD 160GB to do the trick, but I don't have one of those handy. I've got a 200GB Maxie, maybe I could try again with a 40GB swap partition.


==========================================================

Okay, that was the story a couple of days ago, when I first wrote that.


Since then I tried using the 200GB with a number of different values for the swap partition and could never get rid of the Apple Free partition that screws up using jmfs.

Tried deleting and creating partitions with pdisk, never got anywhere.


Stumbled onto something last night that seems to be working.

Used the MFS Live cd to copy the original 160GB drive to the 500GB drive.

It's a Seagate with an LBA number of 976773168

Previously I'd tried a -s option value of 1000 or 1024 for the swap size.

This time, for some reason, I did

Backup -Tao - /dev/sda | restore -s 999 -pi - /dev/sdb

the important part, it turned out, being the 999

I suppose I did it with MFS Live 'cause it seems to do it a little faster than WinMFS, either of which does in minutes what jmfs takes hours to do.

Didn't run pdisk -l afterwards for fear of jinxing it somehow.

Rebooted, took out the MFS Live cd, let it boot into XP and loaded WinMFS.

Selected sdb, clicked on mfsinfo, it showed a big Apple Free partition on the end.

Clicked on mfsadd, let it expand, clicked mfsinfo again to see what size Apple Free partition I wound up with, and, lo and behold, hallelujah, happy days are here again, partition 15 was the last one on the drive. No Apple Free partition and a swap partition of almost 1GB. Actually 999.0M If I'd used -s 1000 I think it would say 1000.0M and if I'd used -s 1024 I think it'd be 1.0G

Closed program, logged off XP, powered down, hooked up 2TB drive, rebooted with jmfs cd in drive, used it to copy 500GB to 2TB (it only took several or more hours), used it to expand when it finally finished, powered down, put MFS Live cd back in, rebooted, checked drive with pdisk, have 3 MFS pairs plus a single MFS partition (the 16th).

Put the 2TB in the S3 HD, it booted right up (to the extent that a TiVo will boot right up), and seems to be behaving itself.

Will record a bunch of stuff and see.

I probably could have used WinMFS to do the original copy from the 160 to the 500, specifying 999 for the swap size, and gotten the same results, but that's an experiment for another day. Like after I fix the ignition on the lawn mower, rebuild the carb on the generator, etc, etc, etc.


----------



## Soapm

So the moral to your post is jmfs doesn't make custom swap partitions? Is that what we learned?


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> So the moral to your post is jmfs doesn't make custom swap partitions? Is that what we learned?


Well, that, and that sometimes you can get the swap size you want and still be able to use jmfs to go over 1TB on a single drive on an HD, despite jmfs's lack of any built-in swap resizing function.

Of course it's only been 12 hours or so, so I'm not prepared to declare it an unqualified success just yet, but after beating my head against the wall for a few days over this, it's nice to have it at least look like it might work out in the long run without having had to spend a couple of years learning how to hex edit every last byte.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> Well, that, and that sometimes you can get the swap size you want and still be able to use jmfs to go over 1TB on a single drive on an HD, despite jmfs's lack of any built-in swap resizing function.
> 
> Of course it's only been 12 hours or so, so I'm not prepared to declare it an unqualified success just yet, but after beating my head against the wall for a few days over this, it's nice to have it at least look like it might work out in the long run without having had to spend a couple of years learning how to hex edit every last byte.


Let's hope you're good to go. When I upgraded my 2TB using WinMFS JFMS wouldn't recognize the drive. So because JMFS recognized your drive says you're off to a good start...


----------



## prpjam

teiland said:


> About your second question, I think you probably can go >2TB. If I didn't already have two 2TB drives, I would have tried with a 2.5TB.


I finally succeeded, and can replicate, preparing a large drive for an HD Tivo.

At Basic Quality, a 2.5 TB drive yields 2965 hours.
At Basic Quality, a 2.0 TB drive yields 2776 hours.

I never could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. When I enable it, the Tivo constantly reboots. When I disable it, the new drive boots up fine and does not reboot constantly. I believe that my original failure was due to trying to Supersize in WinMFS. When I later went step by step, inserted the new drive in the HD Tivo and tested, Supersize (in WinMFS) was the only hang up.

I had ordered a WD25EURS before the huge price increase. Now, I will have to wait until the price comes down to get more drives.

Also, I learned that I could back up the original 160 GB drive using WinMFS, then restore it to the 2.5 TB or 2.0 TB drive using the swap size of 999. (Thank you to the person who posted that!!!!) Then, I expanded the drive in JMFS. I did not have the Apple partition problem, so I did not need the in-between step of using a 500 GB drive.

If you restore in WinMFS, do not Add or Expand in WinMFS. Just restore the 160 GB image. Then go to JMFS.

When everything was done, nothing that I tried could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. I had used this option many times for a 1.5 TB drive, but just could not get it to work on the 2.0 or 2.5 TB drives. I had to turn it off to keep the drives from rebooting.

I think that the 2.0 TB drive yielded 318 HD hours, which is the same that someone else reported who said they got Supersize to work. I think the 2.5 TB drive yielded 339 HD hours.

For the 2.0 TB drive I used a green Seagate that I got at Fry's.

Here is another interesting point. I believe, but am not certain, that the very first time I tried to format the 2.5 TB drive, JMFS told me that it 2.19 TBs had been used. Then I finally got Comcast to pair the cable card and repeated the process, I could not get more than 2.14 TBs.

As to the issue of WDIdle3, I did this on the 2.5 TB drive before realizing that this step was unnecessary. So, I could not undo that. I did not perform this step on the 2.0 TB Seagate drive, and it was not necessary.

Originally, I was using WDIdle3 ver 1.0. I also tried WDIdle3 ver 1.4. The more recent version did not prevent the rebooting, one way or another on the 2.5 TB drive. Only disabling Supersize, stopped the reboot problem.


----------



## unitron

prpjam said:


> I finally succeeded, and can replicate, preparing a large drive for an HD Tivo.
> 
> At Basic Quality, a 2.5 TB drive yields 2965 hours.
> At Basic Quality, a 2.0 TB drive yields 2776 hours.
> 
> I never could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. When I enable it, the Tivo constantly reboots. When I disable it, the new drive boots up fine and does not reboot constantly. I believe that my original failure was due to trying to Supersize in WinMFS. When I later went step by step, inserted the new drive in the HD Tivo and tested, Supersize (in WinMFS) was the only hang up.
> 
> I had ordered a WD25EURS before the huge price increase. Now, I will have to wait until the price comes down to get more drives.
> 
> Also, I learned that I could back up the original 160 GB drive using WinMFS, then restore it to the 2.5 TB or 2.0 TB drive using the swap size of 999. (Thank you to the person who posted that!!!!) Then, I expanded the drive in JMFS. I did not have the Apple partition problem, so I did not need the in-between step of using a 500 GB drive.
> 
> If you restore in WinMFS, do not Add or Expand in WinMFS. Just restore the 160 GB image. Then go to JMFS.
> 
> When everything was done, nothing that I tried could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. I had used this option many times for a 1.5 TB drive, but just could not get it to work on the 2.0 or 2.5 TB drives. I had to turn it off to keep the drives from rebooting.
> 
> I think that the 2.0 TB drive yielded 318 HD hours, which is the same that someone else reported who said they got Supersize to work. I think the 2.5 TB drive yielded 339 HD hours.
> 
> For the 2.0 TB drive I used a green Seagate that I got at Fry's.
> 
> Here is another interesting point. I believe, but am not certain, that the very first time I tried to format the 2.5 TB drive, JMFS told me that it 2.19 TBs had been used. Then I finally got Comcast to pair the cable card and repeated the process, I could not get more than 2.14 TBs.
> 
> As to the issue of WDIdle3, I did this on the 2.5 TB drive before realizing that this step was unnecessary. So, I could not undo that. I did not perform this step on the 2.0 TB Seagate drive, and it was not necessary.
> 
> Originally, I was using WDIdle3 ver 1.0. I also tried WDIdle3 ver 1.4. The more recent version did not prevent the rebooting, one way or another on the 2.5 TB drive. Only disabling Supersize, stopped the reboot problem.


Where to start, where to start.

Running wdidle 1, 2, 3, or whatever version, is done to disable intellipark, or at least set the time before it kicks in to several minutes instead of several seconds.

The reason to do this is because if the TiVo soft boots (i.e., restarts without power being shut off), the drive notices the controller isn't talking to it, and if intellipark is working the way it comes set from the factory, after about 8 seconds of this it parks the heads and goes into a sleep mode.

By the time the TiVo has booted up enough to query the drive, the drive is asleep. The TiVo doesn't know about this, it just thinks the drive is absent or non-responsive, so it reboots again, which turns off the controller's request for the drive to spin back up, so it parks the heads again and spins back down, so that when the TiVo's ready for it again, it's not ready for the TiVo.

If it were a hard boot (pull the power plug and then stick it back in), the drive will be awake and spun up when the TiVo calls on it.

Since a TiVo drive is always working, it's always awake, so intellipark isn't going to cause it to reboot. But if it soft reboots for some other reason, like the TiVo got an update and needs to reboot from the alternate partitions or something, intellipark is going to keep that from succeeding.

The 999 was so that I could use an intermediate drive to get a larger swap size, and setting it to 1000 or 1024 left me with a little extra at the end which got turned in to an Apple Free partition, which prevents jmfs from succeeding, because it doesn't understand that an Apple Free partition isn't really a partition and doesn't need to be protected from being overwritten.

I discovered it by accident, and still don't fully understand how or why it worked.

And I don't understand how you're managing not to get bitten by the Apple Free partition problem, but congrats.

Intellipark is strictly a Western Digital thing, so you're correct there's no need (or ability) to do anything to the Seagate.

Were you trrying to use WinMFS, and then jmfs, and then going back to use WinMFS to Supersize, or using WinMFS, including Supersizing, and then finishing with jmfs?


----------



## Soapm

prpjam said:


> I never could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. When I enable it, the Tivo constantly reboots. When I disable it, the new drive boots up fine and does not reboot constantly. I believe that my original failure was due to trying to Supersize in WinMFS. When I later went step by step, inserted the new drive in the HD Tivo and tested, Supersize (in WinMFS) was the only hang up..


I ran into this also with a Hatachi 2TB drive. I didn't bother posting about it since I seemed to be the only one having the problem.


----------



## L David Matheny

prpjam said:


> I finally succeeded, and can replicate, preparing a large drive for an HD Tivo.
> 
> At Basic Quality, a 2.5 TB drive yields 2965 hours.
> At Basic Quality, a 2.0 TB drive yields 2776 hours.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I think that the 2.0 TB drive yielded 318 HD hours, which is the same that someone else reported who said they got Supersize to work. I think the 2.5 TB drive yielded 339 HD hours.
> 
> For the 2.0 TB drive I used a green Seagate that I got at Fry's.
> 
> Here is another interesting point. I believe, but am not certain, that the very first time I tried to format the 2.5 TB drive, JMFS told me that it 2.19 TBs had been used. Then I finally got Comcast to pair the cable card and repeated the process, I could not get more than 2.14 TBs.


It is interesting that you were able to get a TiVo to use a 2.5TB drive, since TiVos (running their current version of Linux) aren't supposed to be able to address any drive larger than 2TB (or maybe 2.19TB). But it would be more of a breakthrough if somebody could get a TiVo to actually use all of a 2.5TB or 3TB drive.


----------



## dcstager

Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.


----------



## Soapm

dcstager said:


> Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.


No... Just use WinMFS for the original S3. JMFS is for Tivo's after that one.


----------



## unitron

dcstager said:


> Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.


I think the latest thinking at this point is that you can't use all of a 2TB drive in an original S3, and I'm not sure if you can even use less than that if it's on a 2TB drive.

Somewhere around here, probably in the

Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

in the S3 forum

there's some discussion about which models can use what size drive or how much space you can get maximum with or without adding an external, although the majority opinion seems to be that adding an external just increases your chances of drive problems.

At least the original S3 isn't limited to just the approved WD externals the way the HDs and the S4s are.


----------



## sathead

Great thread!
The OEM 160GB drive in my TiVo-HD was becoming erratic (it's mfg date was Sept 2007) so I followed the instructions on page 1 and on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ page (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784) to use a spare WD GreenPower 500GB drive I had on hand. Prepped the drive with the Wdidle3 and HDDScan (for acoustic management), imaged my OEM drive with Mfslive (run as admin in Win7), then wrote that image back to the new 500Gb drive- popped the new drive in the TiVo and it booted right up and has been flawless since last night.

Big thanks to the thread starter!! Bought that 500GB drive before the floods for under $50


----------



## Spl7

Well, I have a 2tb drive that I'm trying to use. So far, I've found:
- the USB/SATA adapter I have doesn't work on the 2TB drive, only the smaller one. As some posts have noted, it seems to have to do with the electronics on the adapter. Caveat emptor
- I've done both winmfs and mfslive to create a 1.2TB image that works. No problems in operation.
- I've tried using jmfs to copy the 160gb over to my 2tb disk, and then used the expand portion. After the long initial boot, it seems to work. But I have had some odd behaviors (thinks like hdmi cable "Viewing not permitted") but I'm not sure if thats the disk. One thing I have seen is that it creates a 1.7TB partition, and unless the new software can handle it, that is too large. So, I then tried:
- Using winmfs to create a 160gb image, a 1TB image, etc (lots of permutations) on my 2tb disk, and then tried to use jmfs to expand and create the last partition. My thinking being that we need to have less than 16 partitions, and no partition should be larger than 1tb.

Its the last scenario that has me stumped. Jmfs just doesn't seem to work with any disk that winmfs creates. If I use jmfs to copy over the image, its happy. But if I use winmfs to copy it over, it just fails the expand every time.
Thoughts on where to go from here?

Oh and final note. Somewhat handicapped. My native box is a laptop; have to borrow a desktop with SATA connections to do most of this playing.


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Well, I have a 2tb drive that I'm trying to use. So far, I've found:
> - the USB/SATA adapter I have doesn't work on the 2TB drive, only the smaller one. As some posts have noted, it seems to have to do with the electronics on the adapter. Caveat emptor
> - I've done both winmfs and mfslive to create a 1.2TB image that works. No problems in operation.
> - I've tried using jmfs to copy the 160gb over to my 2tb disk, and then used the expand portion. After the long initial boot, it seems to work. But I have had some odd behaviors (thinks like hdmi cable "Viewing not permitted") but I'm not sure if thats the disk. One thing I have seen is that it creates a 1.7TB partition, and unless the new software can handle it, that is too large. So, I then tried:
> - Using winmfs to create a 160gb image, a 1TB image, etc (lots of permutations) on my 2tb disk, and then tried to use jmfs to expand and create the last partition. My thinking being that we need to have less than 16 partitions, and no partition should be larger than 1tb.
> 
> Its the last scenario that has me stumped. Jmfs just doesn't seem to work with any disk that winmfs creates. If I use jmfs to copy over the image, its happy. But if I use winmfs to copy it over, it just fails the expand every time.
> Thoughts on where to go from here?
> 
> Oh and final note. Somewhat handicapped. My native box is a laptop; have to borrow a desktop with SATA connections to do most of this playing.


Can you get hold of a 1TB drive to use for a day or so?

What I wound up doing was copying the 160 to a 1TB (and increasing the size of the swap partition in the process) and expanding (adding partitions 14 and 15) with WinMFS.

For some reason MFS Live will leave a little extra bit of space at the end of that 1TB drive, which gets read as an Apple Free partition and defeats jmfs, but WinMFS uses all of the space.

Then I used jmfs to copy from the 1TB to a 2TB and then create the 16th partition, which was less than 1 binary TB.

The key is to not have an Apple Free partition (which is how the Apple Partition Map and stuff that can read it interprets unpartitioned space), because jmfs sees this as a partition and creates a 17th partition.

The HD sees this as a screwed up external drive, makes you divorce it, and that leaves you with a 2TB drive of which you can only use 1TB.


----------



## Spl7

Thanks for your reply unitron. Yeah, a 1TB drive would make things easier, but no, no access. When I tried the jmfs on the drive, the expand just failed; didn't even create something with the extra 17th partition.

When I created the winmfs 1tb drive, it creates only 15 partitions, so I thought it would be ok. But for whatever reason, JMFS doesnt even try to process it.


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Thanks for your reply unitron. Yeah, a 1TB drive would make things easier, but no, no access. When I tried the jmfs on the drive, the expand just failed; didn't even create something with the extra 17th partition.
> 
> When I created the winmfs 1tb drive, it creates only 15 partitions, so I thought it would be ok. But for whatever reason, JMFS doesnt even try to process it.


MFS Live has a thing called

pdisk

and

pdisk -l

will show Apple Partition Maps

(that's a lowercase L after the hyphen)

It also has a thing called mfsinfo that gives useful info.

WinMFS has mfsinfo, and it's version displays the partition map as part of its output.

Clues can be found that way.

Unfortunately, I don't know nearly as much about how jmfs works as I'd like to.


----------



## Spl7

unitron said:


> MFS Live has a thing called
> 
> pdisk
> 
> and
> 
> pdisk -l
> 
> will show Apple Partition Maps
> 
> (that's a lowercase L after the hyphen)
> 
> It also has a thing called mfsinfo that gives useful info.
> 
> WinMFS has mfsinfo, and it's version displays the partition map as part of its output.
> 
> Clues can be found that way.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't know nearly as much about how jmfs works as I'd like to.


I could swear that I had done a winmfs 1tb upgrade, then did the msinfo and plist and saw only 15 partitions, no "apple free" ones after. I'm in the process of doing a winmfs 1tb, let it do its download to see if it cleans up any pointers and structures, then I'm going to double check with jmfs.

But all that aside, assuming that there are no extra hidden APM partitions, am I just barking up the wrong tree? And can any one tell me what it is about a jmfs copy that makes this work, vs using winmfs to copy/create the disk?


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> I could swear that I had done a winmfs 1tb upgrade, then did the msinfo and plist and saw only 15 partitions, no "apple free" ones after. I'm in the process of doing a winmfs 1tb, let it do its download to see if it cleans up any pointers and structures, then I'm going to double check with jmfs.
> 
> But all that aside, assuming that there are no extra hidden APM partitions, am I just barking up the wrong tree? And can any one tell me what it is about a jmfs copy that makes this work, vs using winmfs to copy/create the disk?


WinMFS only knows how to do expanding by adding MFS pairs, and TiVos seem to have a 3 pairs per drive limitation. The 160 already has 2 pairs, so that's 1,840GB left to fill going onto a 2TB. TiVos also seem to have a 1.1TB per partition limitation.

MFS pairs seem to be one fairly small partition containing I'm not sure what and one much bigger one where the actual shows get recorded. So there's no way to use all of that 1,840GB as just a single MFS pair.

TiVo also has a 16 partitions of any kind per drive limitation. If you copy the 160 to a bigger drive and add an MFS pair, that leaves you with 15 partitions, not counting any free space that gets counted as an Apple Free partition.

Unlike MFS Live and WinMFS, which both see an Apple Free partition as something they can overwrite with another MFS pair, jmfs sees it and preserves it as a valid partition.

If you can fully fill a drive with those first 15 partitions, jmfs can copy that to a larger drive and create a single MFS media partition, which becomes partition 16.

If you go straight to a 2TB from the 160 with jmfs, I don't know if it can create the 3rd MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and then add a single one or not.

What I do know is that if you do it that way you are stuck with the original size swap partition, and I didn't want to settle for that, which is why I beat my head against the wall until I figured out how to use WinMFS to fully fill a 1TB and then copy that with jmfs to a 2TB and add that 16th partition.

I spend a lot of time with MFS Live trying swap sizes just a little bigger or just a little smaller than my intended goal of 1GB, trying to keep from getting an Apple Free partition at the end, but it never happened. After about the 7th or 8th time I think I even heard it snicker at me.

Somewhere there's a thread where comer (the jmfs guy) talks about developing it, but it gets a little too far down into the weeds and makes my head hurt.


----------



## dcbarry

SO, I just completed taking my virgin 160MB drive THD, allowed it to upgrade to 11.0k, and then copied and expanded via JMFS to a 2TB drive.

Booted fine, ended up with the original 13 partions with the new 14th MFS media region 3 partition with size of 1.7TB. Wowza! Was a little surprised to see that not paired with an application region partition, but in reading through this thread, that is not unexpected.


My only concern right now is that the Swap size is still only 128MB. In looking back in this thread, almost all of the success reports are about initial setups. 

I'm really nervous about this, but not sure how to get around it at this point, or if it is truly necessary. 

It's a huge pain to get my devices re-paired by TWC, so before I plunge forward, thought I'd ask ... have many of you been running at 2TB with the original swap size? 



I guess --- if I had to --- I could WinMFS or MFS copy a truncated 160GB image to a 250GB drive with expanded swap space only, and THEN JMFS copy and expand to the 2TB drive. But I've had this open for so long now my wife is going to have my head soon.


----------



## unitron

dcbarry said:


> SO, I just completed taking my virgin 160MB drive THD, allowed it to upgrade to 11.0k, and then copied and expanded via JMFS to a 2TB drive.
> 
> Booted fine, ended up with the original 13 partions with the new 14th MFS media region 3 partition with size of 1.7TB. Wowza! Was a little surprised to see that not paired with an application region partition, but in reading through this thread, that is not unexpected.
> 
> My only concern right now is that the Swap size is still only 128MB. In looking back in this thread, almost all of the success reports are about initial setups.
> 
> I'm really nervous about this, but not sure how to get around it at this point, or if it is truly necessary.
> 
> It's a huge pain to get my devices re-paired by TWC, so before I plunge forward, thought I'd ask ... have many of you been running at 2TB with the original swap size?
> 
> I guess --- if I had to --- I could WinMFS or MFS copy a truncated 160GB image to a 250GB drive with expanded swap space only, and THEN JMFS copy and expand to the 2TB drive. But I've had this open for so long now my wife is going to have my head soon.


That larger than 1TB partiton worries me a little.

Do you happen to have a 1TB drive you could use as a middle man temporarily?

Based on my experience so far, the only way to expand the size of the swap partion is with the MFS Live cd or WinMFS (except perhaps for the guys who know enough to know how to create their own MFS partitions and such).

That, of course, means copying to a larger drive when you make the swap larger. Which means you'll need to let it also create the 14th and 15th partitions (the 3rd MFS pair) without leaving any space unused to become an Apple Free partition, because jmfs will recognize that Apple Free partition as the 16th partition and copy it along with everything else, and then create a 17th partition when it does its single MFS media partition thing, and when the TiVo boots, it'll think that 17th partition is a bad external drive and insist that you divorce it, which will leave you with that space unavailable.

I've found that MFS Live seems to leave a little space at the end no matter how I tweak the swap size, but WinMFS doesn't.

So, if you can use a 1TB temporarily, use WinMFS to copy the 160 to it with a new swap size of 1000, and expand, test in TiVo just to be sure, then use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB drive and add one more partition which will be under the alleged 1.1TB limit.

The old rule was a limit of 3 MFS pairs per drive and, when we were talking S1 and S2 IDE master and slave, 6 pairs overall, with a limit of 16 partitions of any kind per drive.

Somehow jmfs can bend that rule by creating a single MFS media partition without the other half of the pair and apparently there's something in the HD and Series 4 software that lets it get away with that.

The 16 partitions per drive rule seems to still be in force, however.


----------



## dcbarry

No extra drive available. I was thinking I could use win mds to restore and add a larger swap without expanding the drive and then use jmfs to expand. I don want to b a pioneer, but I thought the 1tb limit for partitions had been defeated in recent versions. Sigh...



unitron said:


> That larger than 1TB partiton worries me a little.
> 
> Do you happen to have a 1TB drive you could use as a middle man temporarily?
> 
> Based on my experience so far, the only way to expand the size of the swap partion is with the MFS Live cd or WinMFS (except perhaps for the guys who know enough to know how to create their own MFS partitions and such).
> 
> That, of course, means copying to a larger drive when you make the swap larger. Which means you'll need to let it also create the 14th and 15th partitions (the 3rd MFS pair) without leaving any space unused to become an Apple Free partition, because jmfs will recognize that Apple Free partition as the 16th partition and copy it along with everything else, and then create a 17th partition when it does its single MFS media partition thing, and when the TiVo boots, it'll think that 17th partition is a bad external drive and insist that you divorce it, which will leave you with that space unavailable.
> 
> I've found that MFS Live seems to leave a little space at the end no matter how I tweak the swap size, but WinMFS doesn't.
> 
> So, if you can use a 1TB temporarily, use WinMFS to copy the 160 to it with a new swap size of 1000, and expand, test in TiVo just to be sure, then use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB drive and add one more partition which will be under the alleged 1.1TB limit.
> 
> The old rule was a limit of 3 MFS pairs per drive and, when we were talking S1 and S2 IDE master and slave, 6 pairs overall, with a limit of 16 partitions of any kind per drive.
> 
> Somehow jmfs can bend that rule by creating a single MFS media partition without the other half of the pair and apparently there's something in the HD and Series 4 software that lets it get away with that.
> 
> The 16 partitions per drive rule seems to still be in force, however.


----------



## Spl7

Well, grabbed a hold of my friend's pc for a few hours and verified. My winmfs expanded drive (expanded to 1tb out of the 2tb on the disk) had only 15 partition in use, and couldn't see any other partitions. Not quite sure why jmfs can't expand and add the last partition to this disk.

Gonna beg borrow steal a 1 tb and do the one known safe way that I know of, i.e. create a 1tb disk, then use jmfs to copy it off onto the 2tb and expand it. I still have no idea of what that jmfs copy does, but it seems like its the one documented version that works.

In the meantime, since it will be a few days (and I'm not beholden to keep my shows), I just did what post 1 said to do, i.e. used jmfs to copy my 160gb drive directly, and expanded it. I'm just going to record everything in sight to see if I cant exceed that 1tb size and see if it still works.


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Well, grabbed a hold of my friend's pc for a few hours and verified. My winmfs expanded drive (expanded to 1tb out of the 2tb on the disk) had only 15 partition in use, and couldn't see any other partitions. Not quite sure why jmfs can't expand and add the last partition to this disk.
> 
> Gonna beg borrow steal a 1 tb and do the one known safe way that I know of, i.e. create a 1tb disk, then use jmfs to copy it off onto the 2tb and expand it. I still have no idea of what that jmfs copy does, but it seems like its the one documented version that works.
> 
> In the meantime, since it will be a few days (and I'm not beholden to keep my shows), I just did what post 1 said to do, i.e. used jmfs to copy my 160gb drive directly, and expanded it. I'm just going to record everything in sight to see if I cant exceed that 1tb size and see if it still works.


Did you use mfsinfo in WinMFS to see the partition map?

If you look at the drive with pdisk from the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should have even if you don't have a TiVo), it'll probably show a 16th Apple Free partition, which takes up the rest of that 2TB.

jmfs probably sees that 16th partition as well, and considers the drive already filled.

What jmfs does is copy the original drive using dd or dd_rescue or ddrescue to do it byte for byte, "Xeroxing" it, so to speak, and then fills any leftover space on the target drive with a single MFS media partition. Which means it copies the swap partition the same size it already is on the original drive.

The thing to do is use WinMFS to copy the original drive to a 1TB, expanding swap to 1000 (i.e., 1000MB, or 1GB, which is only about 15 minutes worth of video space, so you can spare it), and then let it expand into the rest of the 1TB by adding an MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and make sure that it completely fills the drive with no Apple Free partition at the end. You may need to reboot the computer and launch WinMFS again to be absolutely sure.

Once you've got the 1TB filled that way, power off, disconnect everything but the cd-rom drive (or dvd), the 1TB and the 2TB, and boot with the jmfs 1.04 cd and let it copy the 1TB to the 2TB, which will take quite a while, and then expand by adding that 16th MFS partition.


----------



## Spl7

unitron said:


> Did you use mfsinfo in WinMFS to see the partition map?
> 
> If you look at the drive with pdisk from the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should have even if you don't have a TiVo), it'll probably show a 16th Apple Free partition, which takes up the rest of that 2TB.
> 
> jmfs probably sees that 16th partition as well, and considers the drive already filled.
> 
> What jmfs does is copy the original drive using dd or dd_rescue or ddrescue to do it byte for byte, "Xeroxing" it, so to speak, and then fills any leftover space on the target drive with a single MFS media partition. Which means it copies the swap partition the same size it already is on the original drive.
> 
> The thing to do is use WinMFS to copy the original drive to a 1TB, expanding swap to 1000 (i.e., 1000MB, or 1GB, which is only about 15 minutes worth of video space, so you can spare it), and then let it expand into the rest of the 1TB by adding an MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and make sure that it completely fills the drive with no Apple Free partition at the end. You may need to reboot the computer and launch WinMFS again to be absolutely sure.
> 
> Once you've got the 1TB filled that way, power off, disconnect everything but the cd-rom drive (or dvd), the 1TB and the 2TB, and boot with the jmfs 1.04 cd and let it copy the 1TB to the 2TB, which will take quite a while, and then expand by adding that 16th MFS partition.


Thanks again unitron. Yes, your plan is what I was figuring to do. There seems to be something magical about the jmfs copy off, so your plan is what I was doing, though I wasn't sure about the size of the swap. Im not sure about the 1GB swap though; I was planning on 500mb. I know conventional wisdom was bigger to avoid the GSOD, and there were some rule of thumbs to expand them, but 1GB seems excessive to me.

As for checking the drive, yup, I did. I used winmfs and took a look at the 1tb drive, as well as booting under jmfs and used the mfslayout.sh script. I was hoping to find the extra partition which I was prepared to smudge out (I forget the post, but there was one describing the APM layout and how to dd the partition, mod it, and write it back) but didn't. Argh.


----------



## dcbarry

Ok. So I don't have an extra drive. But I am using VMware and set up a 1tb virtual drive. So I use winmfs on the clean 160gb image and did a truncated image. Then used that image and applied it to the 1tb virtual drive with a 1024mb swap file. Mfs info did not show the apple free pseudo partition so I am now usin jmfs to copy the virtual 1 tb to the physicAl 2tb. This has been running for about 18 hours so far... Hopefully it will be worth it.



unitron said:


> That larger than 1TB partiton worries me a little.
> A
> Do you happen to have a 1TB drive you could use as a middle man temporarily?
> 
> Based on my experience so far, the only way to expand the size of the swap partion is with the MFS Live cd or WinMFS (except perhaps for the guys who know enough to know how to create their own MFS partitions and such).
> 
> That, of course, means copying to a larger drive when you make the swap larger. Which means you'll need to let it also create the 14th and 15th partitions (the 3rd MFS pair) without leaving any space unused to become an Apple Free partition, because jmfs will recognize that Apple Free partition as the 16th partition and copy it along with everything else, and then create a 17th partition when it does its single MFS media partition thing, and when the TiVo boots, it'll think that 17th partition is a bad external drive and insist that you divorce it, which will leave you with that space unavailable.
> 
> I've found that MFS Live seems to leave a little space at the end no matter how I tweak the swap size, but WinMFS doesn't.
> 
> So, if you can use a 1TB temporarily, use WinMFS to copy the 160 to it with a new swap size of 1000, and expand, test in TiVo just to be sure, then use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB drive and add one more partition which will be under the alleged 1.1TB limit.
> 
> The old rule was a limit of 3 MFS pairs per drive and, when we were talking S1 and S2 IDE master and slave, 6 pairs overall, with a limit of 16 partitions of any kind per drive.
> 
> Somehow jmfs can bend that rule by creating a single MFS media partition without the other half of the pair and apparently there's something in the HD and Series 4 software that lets it get away with that.
> 
> The 16 partitions per drive rule seems to still be in force, however.


----------



## unitron

dcbarry said:


> Ok. So I don't have an extra drive. But I am using VMware and set up a 1tb virtual drive. So I use winmfs on the clean 160gb image and did a truncated image. Then used that image and applied it to the 1tb virtual drive with a 1024mb swap file. Mfs info did not show the apple free pseudo partition so I am now usin jmfs to copy the virtual 1 tb to the physicAl 2tb. This has been running for about 18 hours so far... Hopefully it will be worth it.


A virtual hard drive? What did you store it on? I know you ain't got 2TB of RAM in one machine.


----------



## dcbarry

Have you ever used VMWARE or Parallels? WIthin your virtual machine, you create virtual hard drives. One neat thing is that you can define a hard drive, but until the space is used, the real size on the host machines hard disk it is much smaller. I guessed (correctly) that most of the 1TB space would be "empty" (or at least highly compressible), so it didn;t come close -- in fact I just checked and the actual space used was 895MB to represent the 1TB image. 



SO the real test will be next few days. I completed the 2TB expansion and I'm running clear and delete right now, and I'll start some recording tomorrow if the annoying Time warner cable can be bothered to pair the cards tomorrow.


Just realize, I forgot to run WIn MDF to supersize and check the final partitioning.


----------



## dcbarry

So it all ended pretty well I think. My upgrade seems to be a success even though Time Warner took forever to pair the cable cards correctly. Took over three days.! Also it turns out I believe my 1.7 GB partition would have worked its I forgot that I was using a custom kernal --- Something we discuss on about on the other forum. But the takeaway is using a virtual drive as an intermediate step seems viable.


----------



## Spl7

Well, still trying to take one for the team here. Before I do known copy to 1TB then jmfs to flow it onto a 2tb, I'm still trying out my direct 160gb to 2tb jmfs copy. Works, and I'm trying to copy everything in sight till it exceeds the 1TB barrier and see if it still works.

So far, about 260gb of programs recorded (so I know I'm at least using the >1tb partition). I've also had some weird behavior: the green screen of death (which it recovered from) and several reboots. My question is, is this bad behavior? Should I just give up the ghost? Or typical of a tivo?


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Well, still trying to take one for the team here. Before I do known copy to 1TB then jmfs to flow it onto a 2tb, I'm still trying out my direct 160gb to 2tb jmfs copy. Works, and I'm trying to copy everything in sight till it exceeds the 1TB barrier and see if it still works.
> 
> So far, about 260gb of programs recorded (so I know I'm at least using the >1tb partition). I've also had some weird behavior: the green screen of death (which it recovered from) and several reboots. My question is, is this bad behavior? Should I just give up the ghost? Or typical of a tivo?


What brand and model of 2TB drive?


----------



## Spl7

Seagate 7200. Didn't think it mattered as much with sata based drives.


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Seagate 7200. Didn't think it mattered as much with sata based drives.


The anecdotal "evidence" so far seems to be that HDs don't like Seagates as much as they do WD Caviar Greens (once Intellipark has been disabled).

I have a theory that it's more the Seagate part than the rpm part that doesn't go over as well, but that's pretty much just a hunch on my part so far.


----------



## quietfly

i'm interested to see how this turns out


----------



## BigJon

dcstager said:


> Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.


I have a similar question, being a new member to the group, but having waded through the forums as a non-member for years: I have a TiVo HD (TCD 652160) that I successfully upgraded to an expanded/supersized 1tb drive four or five years ago - using a Hitachi HD and the directions supplied on the Drive Expansion and Upgrade forum; using WinMFS I wound up with 157 HD hours. Also, the drive appears to behave as though it were the an original TiVo HD; it has consistently supported TiVo software upgrades and currently I am showing 11.ok as as the version running on my unit. Like many others, there are several shows/movies on my TiVo hard drive that I would like to keep - copy protection keeps me from being able to move them onto "My TiVo Recordings" archive on my computer; can I use JFMS to copy the settings and shows from my aging Hitachi HD onto a new WD HD and then use WinFMS to expand/supersize the drive? I understand I will need run the program to deal with the smart park issue on the WD drive. I can't quite get my head around the Apple_Free issue; is that a likely bug on the Hitachi drive and will that force me into manually editing partitions using the command line editor? Sorry to sound dense, but I don't want to start the doggone project and then have both the TiVo and my home network down.

Thanks,

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> I have a similar question, being a new member to the group, but having waded through the forums as a non-member for years: I have a TiVo HD (TCD 652160) that I successfully upgraded to an expanded/supersized 1tb drive four or five years ago - using a Hitachi HD and the directions supplied on the Drive Expansion and Upgrade forum; using WinMFS I wound up with 157 HD hours. Also, the drive appears to behave as though it were the an original TiVo HD; it has consistently supported TiVo software upgrades and currently I am showing 11.ok as as the version running on my unit. Like many others, there are several shows/movies on my TiVo hard drive that I would like to keep - copy protection keeps me from being able to move them onto "My TiVo Recordings" archive on my computer; can I use JFMS to copy the settings and shows from my aging Hitachi HD onto a new WD HD and then use WinFMS to expand/supersize the drive? I understand I will need run the program to deal with the smart park issue on the WD drive. I can't quite get my head around the Apple_Free issue; is that a likely bug on the Hitachi drive and will that force me into manually editing partitions using the command line editor? Sorry to sound dense, but I don't want to start the doggone project and then have both the TiVo and my home network down.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BJ


Since you used WinMFS, you can hook the 1TB TiVo drive up to the computer again, open WinMFS, click on mfsinfo, and copypaste the partition map in your reply to this reply.

That'll let us see if you have an Apple Free partition at the end of the drive or not.

If not, you'll be able to use the jmfs v1.04 bootable cd to copy that drive to a 1.5 or 2TB drive and add a single MFS media partition as the 16th partition, and all should be well.

Come to think of it, paste in the entire output of mfsinfo, in case we have to figure out a sneaky way to do things.

Also include the model number of that Hitachi and the LBA number, and the same for the 2TB.

It doesn't matter what brand of drive is involved, the Apple Partition Map scheme (a version of which TiVo has used from the start) has a couple of quirks. One is that the partition map itself is the first partition. The other is that any unpartitioned space gets labeled an Apple Free Partition. (that's right, something that's unpartitioned gets classified as a partition by the people whose motto is "think different"  )

That second thing is not a problem in and of itself, it's just that when you start with the stock 160GB S3 HD drive it has 13 partitions on it, and using either the MFS Live cd (successor to the old MFS Tools) or WinMFS, they copy the original drive to a larger drive (if that's what you use as a target), and then they expand by adding what's called an MFS pair, which is 2 partitions of specific types. That gets you up to 15 partitions. There's a 64 partition per drive limit built into the Apple Partition Map scheme, but on TiVo drives there's something about the TiVo software that limits you to 16 partitions per drive.

If any space at the end of that 1TB drive was left unused by MFS Live or WinMFS, it will be classified in the partition map as an Apple Free partition.

So if you've got a 1TB with 15 partitions that actually serve a purpose, and a 16th that's just there, the TiVo is perfectly happy.

But jmfs wasn't designed to deal with drives that were already "embiggened" and makes no provision for dealing with Apple Free partitions, and when jmfs copies the 1TB to the 2TB it will include the space that that empty space takes up and the partition table entry for it, and then when it adds the single MFS Media partition which it does, it will make that the 17th partition.

When the TiVo sees that 17th partition on bootup, it'll freak.

So we need to see if we need to worry about that or not.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> Since you used WinMFS, you can hook the 1TB TiVo drive up to the computer again, open WinMFS, click on mfsinfo, and copypaste the partition map in your reply to this reply.......
> 
> Come to think of it, paste in the entire output of mfsinfo, in case we have to figure out a sneaky way to do things.
> 
> Also include the model number of that Hitachi and the LBA number, and the same for the 2TB......


Really appreciate the response and help unitron....

YeeeGads. All this time I thought I was running a Hitachi HD3100 Desktar (one of the recommended drives in the drive upgrade forum).....turns out I misread one of the series of numbers on the label what I thought was a mdl number was a C P/N of H3D10003272S...whatever that is. The model actually is a HDS721010CLA332. It has worked well for three years but has lately started to show some signs of age (freeze frame and stutter here and there). The LBA is 1.953.535.168 Sectors The cut and paste of the msinfo does show the nefarious apple_free in there and the whole result is: 
Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b82bb450 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=1372160 checksum=a9d865d8 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=51928 checksum=2f527539 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=9c6e5a90 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=1064960 checksum=d09d3948 logstamp=6951882 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=316288 checksum=c986e876 logstamp=6946980 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
free=9052160 checksum=2c7b5c4a logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

As far as the model and LBA of the 2 TB unit, I don't have the physical drive yet....I was going to get one of the WD green ones, and specifically the one that folks were having the most success with...I can't seem to go back and find that model number here without risk of dumping my reply; I am certainly not bound to the WD drive and am open to whatever would be the best solution that would 1) succesfully clone the settings on the existing drive (including Comcast cable card) and 2) move the saved programing over byte for byte.

Thanks again for your help and support,

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> Really appreciate the response and help unitron....
> 
> YeeeGads. All this time I thought I was running a Hitachi HD3100 Desktar (one of the recommended drives in the drive upgrade forum).....turns out I misread one of the series of numbers on the label what I thought was a mdl number was a C P/N of H3D10003272S...whatever that is. The model actually is a HDS721010CLA332. It has worked well for three years but has lately started to show some signs of age (freeze frame and stutter here and there). The LBA is 1.953.535.168 Sectors The cut and paste of the msinfo does show the nefarious apple_free in there and the whole result is:
> Mfsinfo (Drive 2)
> 
> Boot Page
> Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
> Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
> Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7
> 
> MFS Super Header
> state=0 magic=ebbafeed
> devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
> zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272
> 
> Zone Maps
> Z0:	type=0
> map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
> next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
> zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=b82bb450 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
> Z1:	type=2
> map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
> next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
> zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
> free=1372160 checksum=a9d865d8 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=14
> Z2:	type=1
> map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
> next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
> zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
> free=51928 checksum=2f527539 logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=17
> Z3:	type=0
> map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
> next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
> zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=9c6e5a90 logstamp=6690186 num_bitmap=1
> Z4:	type=2
> map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
> next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
> zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
> free=1064960 checksum=d09d3948 logstamp=6951882 num_bitmap=15
> Z5:	type=1
> map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
> next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
> zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
> free=316288 checksum=c986e876 logstamp=6946980 num_bitmap=17
> Z6:	type=2
> map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
> next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
> zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
> free=9052160 checksum=2c7b5c4a logstamp=6951898 num_bitmap=18
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 204[email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
> 
> As far as the model and LBA of the 2 TB unit, I don't have the physical drive yet....I was going to get one of the WD green ones, and specifically the one that folks were having the most success with...I can't seem to go back and find that model number here without risk of dumping my reply; I am certainly not bound to the WD drive and am open to whatever would be the best solution that would 1) succesfully clone the settings on the existing drive (including Comcast cable card) and 2) move the saved programing over byte for byte.
> 
> Thanks again for your help and support,
> 
> BJ


If you had an Apple Free partition, it would be #16, and you don't have a #16, so it looks like you're good to go, just hook both drives up to a computer and boot with the jmfs v1.04 cd, tell it to copy, then tell it to expand.

When it copies it does the "Xerox" thing, byte for byte, so all the settings and shows are preserved.

Just be sure that you're sure which drive is which so that you don't overwrite your Windows drive or your 1TB which you're trying to copy.

The most commonly used Caviar Green so far seems to have been the WD20EARS, which is 64MB cache and advanced format.

I used a WD20EADS, which is old-style 512 byte sector and 32MB cache.

The WD20EACS is 16MB cache and advanced format, and based on my experience with a WD10EACS (1TB version), I'd use it anywhere I'd use an EARS.

You should look through the most recent 100 or so pages of the drive upgrade thread to see if the people using the EARS are doing anything in particular about the advanced format, like running the WD alignment utility or using the jumper.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> If you had an Apple Free partition, it would be #16, and you don't have a #16, so it looks like you're good to go, just hook both drives up to a computer and boot with the jmfs v1.04 cd, tell it to copy, then tell it to expand........
> .........You should look through the most recent 100 or so pages of the drive upgrade thread to see if the people using the EARS are doing anything in particular about the advanced format, like running the WD alignment utility or using the jumper.


Thanks unitron. I spoke too soon when I thought I was plagued with the apple_free issue....my partition was named differently and was the first partition, not the 16th one as you pointed out - - funny seeing a partition named Apple anything on the Tivo drive - they're everywhere; As far as the instructions go for copying the settings and programs, I am assuming the "expand" command is done in the jmfs environment but I will still need to come back to winmfs in Windows to execute "supersize" before I install the new drive.

I spent most of the day going through posts and doing searches of "advanced format" and "jumper" in the drive upgrade thread- - the advanced format issue does not appear to be one that is going to cause me concern with a WD20EARS or WD20EURS. I've got an Asus P5b with an Intel dual core 800 mgH processor......it's not the greatest but it chugs along  and has four sata 1 slots and I put in a JMicron sata 2 card that gives me four sata 2 slots. It booted fine with the winmfs boot CD when I did the original upgrade from the 160gb drive and recognized the drives, so I think I will not have a major obstacle unless someone sees something I have missed. I will give a report on my success (or lack of) later in the week when I've got the new drive and I'm done. Thanks again,

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> Thanks unitron. I spoke too soon when I thought I was plagued with the apple_free issue....my partition was named differently and was the first partition, not the 16th one as you pointed out - - funny seeing a partition named Apple anything on the Tivo drive - they're everywhere; As far as the instructions go for copying the settings and programs, I am assuming the "expand" command is done in the jmfs environment but I will still need to come back to winmfs in Windows to execute "supersize" before I install the new drive.
> 
> I spent most of the day going through posts and doing searches of "advanced format" and "jumper" in the drive upgrade thread- - the advanced format issue does not appear to be one that is going to cause me concern with a WD20EARS or WD20EURS. I've got an Asus P5b with an Intel dual core 800 mgH processor......it's not the greatest but it chugs along  and has four sata 1 slots and I put in a JMicron sata 2 card that gives me four sata 2 slots. It booted fine with the winmfs boot CD when I did the original upgrade from the 160gb drive and recognized the drives, so I think I will not have a major obstacle unless someone sees something I have missed. I will give a report on my success (or lack of) later in the week when I've got the new drive and I'm done. Thanks again,
> 
> BJ


"As far as the instructions go for copying the settings and programs, I am assuming the "expand" command is done in the jmfs environment but I will still need to come back to winmfs in Windows to execute "supersize" before I install the new drive."

Correct, although you can go ahead and supersize the 1TB Hitachi with WinMFS first and then copy it to the 2TB with jmfs and add the 16th and final partition with jmfs.

Supersizing uses some of one of the original factory TiVo partitions and "unreserves" it, so you can do it anytime.

Apparently at least in part because of the CPU used in the original Series 1, TiVo chose to use the old Apple Partition Map way of formatting a hard drive, or at least a version of the APM.

The first partition of an Apple Partition Map formatted drive is always the partition map itself, regardless of what it's used in.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> .......Correct, although you can go ahead and supersize the 1TB Hitachi with WinMFS first and then copy it to the 2TB with jmfs and add the 16th and final partition with jmfs.
> 
> Supersizing uses some of one of the original factory TiVo partitions and "unreserves" it, so you can do it anytime.......


I hope I am not boring the forum with my dense head: Thanks for the response unitron, but I fear I may have missed something or something may have been missing from the partition table/zone map info. I am doggone near certain I supersized the Hitachi drive using winmfs when I did the original upgrade from the 160 gb drive - that's how I got to 157 hrs. of HD capacity. Do I need to run it again before I start the 1 tb to 2 tb upgrade?

Thanks,

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> I hope I am not boring the forum with my dense head: Thanks for the response unitron, but I fear I may have missed something or something may have been missing from the partition table/zone map info. I am doggone near certain I supersized the Hitachi drive using winmfs when I did the original upgrade from the 160 gb drive - that's how I got to 157 hrs. of HD capacity. Do I need to run it again before I start the 1 tb to 2 tb upgrade?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BJ


Somewhere in the TiVo software it says to reserve some of one of the original MFS partitions for the "Showcases" it downloads or records in the middle of the night.

Supersize undoes that instruction. Once that's been done, it's been done, and just like cable card pairing and what your zip code is, it should survive backups, expansions, etc.

You can hook up the Hitachi, run WinMFS and tell it to supersize, and either it'll do it or tell you it can't or that it already has, I suspect.


----------



## unitron

lfreddecolo said:


> Thank you so much. I have a new premiere that i have never set up. I'm getting a cable card next week. (I live in a fairly small town with only one cable provider. Cable cards are a new fangled invention around here. They don't even advertise them. I guess they think we are all stupid ******** anyway.) I really wanted to upgrade to 2tb before i started using.


Go ahead and get your cable card(s) and everything else properly set up.

Then you can use jmfs to go to 2TB and put the original on the shelf, and both drives will be set up for your cable setup and zip code and such, so if you ever need to put the original drive back in as a troubleshooting measure, it'll already be set up the way it needs to be.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> Go ahead and get your cable card(s) and everything else properly set up.
> 
> Then you can use jmfs to go to 2TB and put the original on the shelf, and both drives will be set up for your cable setup and zip code and such, so if you ever need to put the original drive back in as a troubleshooting measure, it'll already be set up the way it needs to be.


And you can charge your friends a case of beer to upgrade their new Premieres using your drive as the source. They'll just have to run "Clear and Delete Everything" to get it to work on their hardware.

PS: Don't do this if you don't want them to see your season passes and wish lists. E.g., the "naked elvis" keywords wish list could lead to some awkwardness if they stumble on it before they CADE.


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> And you can charge your friends a case of beer to upgrade their new Premieres using your drive as the source. They'll just have to run "Clear and Delete Everything" to get it to work on their hardware.
> 
> PS: Don't do this if you don't want them to see your season passes and wish lists. E.g., the "naked elvis" keywords wish list could lead to some awkwardness if they stumble on it before they CADE.


Naked young skinny elvis or naked old fat elvis?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> Naked young skinny elvis or naked old fat elvis?


"naked elvis" should catch both. Or...err...I'd have to assume that's the case anyway.


----------



## Soapm

ThreeSoFar said:


> "naked elvis" should catch both. Or...err...I'd have to assume that's the case anyway.


No substitute for experience...


----------



## BigJon

BigJon said:


> ......... I will give a report on my success (or lack of) later in the week when I've got the new drive and I'm done. Thanks again, [insert 3/16/12: thanking unitron]
> 
> BJ


WooHoo!! The process was actually easier than I had imagined. Thanks to Tivoitis for his original instructions on upgrading the TiVo HD to 2TB using JMFS, thanks to Commer for the original Premier upgrade process and the wonderful JMFS tool, thanks again to unitron for his guidance on fine tuning the process. I used a WD20EURS for my TiVo 652160 which already had a supersized Hitachi 1TB Deskstar HDD in it. Here are the steps I used for the upgrade:

1. Built an ISO image bootable disc containing the Hitachi feature tools, the latest Western Digital DLGDIAG tool, and WDIDLE3.EXE (if you use the WD20EURS you can use any DOS boot disk with the two Western Digital programs as the only reason for the Hitachi tools is to set the AAM to 128 and it is already there on the EURS....the Hitachi program is one way to to get a handy bootable CD however)

2. Ensured AAM setting with the Hitachi feature tool

3. Ran full diagnostic routine from the DLGDIAG menu (this takes awhile)

4. Ran WDIDLE3.EXE with the /r switch and discovered that in the case of my WD20EURS the idle timer had already been disabled. I then ran WDIDLE3 /d just to be safe and got the same message; that the idle timer was disabled

5. Disconnected my Windows HDD's (all SATA) and hooked up my Hitachi 1TB and the WD20EURS to my Asus P5B SATA 1 and 2 ports respectively

6. Booted with the JMFS boot disc and followed the menu instructions for a) first doing the [c] copy of my Hitachi drive to the Western Digital drive, and then b) doing the [e] expand function, and then c) selecting the  shutdown function and your pc will shutdown.

7. Since my Hitachi drive had already been supersized by winfms/mfslive when I did the original upgrade three or four years ago, those settings (the supersize settings) were copied over and I was pretty sure I didn't need to do anything further, but put the new WD20EURS into the TiVo HD box, which I did.

8. Went through a normal boot up, and then soft boot process, both successful, and the settings screen reports "account in good standing"  and 318 hours of HD capacity available  I went through and checked the movies that had been copy-protected and I wanted to keep on the TiVo HDD and they copied over in perfect order from the old Hitachi 1TB to the new WD 2TB :up: So, all in all, I am a happy camper and very pleased with the process (there were many hours of HD programming that I wanted to keep and the copy process ran overnight). I will be making a donation to Commer for this most very useful tool JMFS. Thanks again to all for their help.

BJ


----------



## BigJon

BigJon said:


> .........4. Ran WDIDLE3.EXE with the /r switch and discovered that in the case of my WD20EURS the idle timer had already been disabled. I then ran WDIDLE3 /d just to be safe and got the same message; that the idle timer was disabled............


Alas, wdidle3.exe misled me, as others have reported it has with this very same model drive (EURS). For whatever reasons, the softboot showed a successful restart without any sign of trouble. My first hint of things amis was the dozen or so recordings I had queued up for copying over to "my tivo recordings" network drive on my PC overnight; the first recording failed about 40 minutes into the process, and I was intent on blaming my new installation of Windows 7 (first time I had used TiVo Desktop in that configuration). Then I sat down to watch some TV and noticed that it was a bit odd that a show I had deleted the day before was showing up back in the Now Playing list. I chocked that up to faulty memory  (on my part) and went on to watch something that had been recorded only to see it freeze frame after about 10 minutes and then the "Welcome Powering Up Message" sign show up. Well, this goose chase went on for a little bit, each time degenerating......I got all the way through boot-up that first time while watching it; almost the second time (the intro video was running); and by the third time the oft spoken of loop was going on, but I was also looking at a GSOD....or so I thought.

I removed the drive, booted up the Hitachi PC Dos disc again that had the WD programs on it and ran the DLGDIAG program and found no errors (first good news) and then ran wdidle3 /s300 which in the last 24 hours has seemed to have solved the problem. Will report otherwise if I see some new bug crop up.

BJ


----------



## BigJon

BigJon said:


> ........Will report otherwise if I see some new bug crop up.


 Well, I am about to take the WD20EURS out and use it for archiving or some other home network use.....it does not seem to want to work in my TiVo HD. I couldn't even get 24 hrs. straight with the wdidle3 set to the maximum /s300. I found my unit in a loop when I went to watch a pre-recorded program. I was able to get through the cold boot process (kill power for 15 seconds, then power back up) but the inconsistancy/hit-or-miss nature of the performance of the drive means I can't trust the unit to record season passes or other scheduled shows if I'm not there to make sure it didn't go into never-never land and get it to wake up with a cold boot.

I almost went with the WD20EARS or WD20EARX; now I am beginning to wonder if I ought to just steer away from any Western Digital drive because of this doggone intellipark issue. Anyone have some suggestions? That old Hitachi worked well for three years - I wonder if I should try to stick with a Hitachi drive.

BJ


----------



## L David Matheny

BigJon said:


> Well, I am about to take the WD20EURS out and use it for archiving or some other home network use.....it does not seem to want to work in my TiVo HD. I couldn't even get 24 hrs. straight with the wdidle3 set to the maximum /s300. I found my unit in a loop when I went to watch a pre-recorded program. I was able to get through the cold boot process (kill power for 15 seconds, then power back up) but the inconsistancy/hit-or-miss nature of the performance of the drive means I can't trust the unit to record season passes or other scheduled shows if I'm not there to make sure it didn't go into never-never land and get it to wake up with a cold boot.
> 
> I almost went with the WD20EARS or WD20EARX; now I am beginning to wonder if I ought to just steer away from any Western Digital drive because of this doggone intellipark issue. Anyone have some suggestions? That old Hitachi worked well for three years - I wonder if I should try to stick with a Hitachi drive.
> 
> BJ


I'm wondering if the real problem is the "advanced format" (4K sectors). Is anyone using one of the new advanced-format WD drives with no problems? Of course it could be something else entirely.


----------



## BigJon

L David Matheny said:


> I'm wondering if the real problem is the "advanced format" (4K sectors). Is anyone using one of the new advanced-format WD drives with no problems? Of course it could be something else entirely.


The copy process worked flawlessly. All of the old programs are pefectly intact. I don't think it is the format issue, I am pretty convinced by the behavior it is the idle timer or intellipark issu - It records perfectly as well when it doesn't "go to sleep". When it is in its narcoleptic fits, I can hear the disc spin down and a clicking noise that I believe has been reported elsewhere as the heads parking. So, the problem remains if there is a period of five minutes where the hard drive doesn't see a comand from the processor, the idle timer kicks in and parks the heads. What bothers me, is the wdidle3.exe program reporting the timer disabled in the begining, and then when I persisted by giving the /d command anyway and verifying it was still disabled I ran into the reboot loop problem pretty quick. But I am now seeing that the /s300 (five minutes) option doesn't get me home free either. Doggone I wish hard drives weren't so darned expesnive right now.......


----------



## L David Matheny

BigJon said:


> The copy process worked flawlessly. All of the old programs are pefectly intact. I don't think it is the format issue, I am pretty convinced by the behavior it is the idle timer or intellipark issu - It records perfectly as well when it doesn't "go to sleep". When it is in its narcoleptic fits, I can hear the disc spin down and a clicking noise that I believe has been reported elsewhere as the heads parking. So, the problem remains if there is a period of five minutes where the hard drive doesn't see a comand from the processor, the idle timer kicks in and parks the heads. What bothers me, is the wdidle3.exe program reporting the timer disabled in the begining, and then when I persisted by giving the /d command anyway and verifying it was still disabled I ran into the reboot loop problem pretty quick. But I am now seeing that the /s300 (five minutes) option doesn't get me home free either. Doggone I wish hard drives weren't so darned expesnive right now.......


Problems with 4K sectors would probably show up as symptoms that could be caused by timing glitches resulting from misalignment of TiVo's reading and writing activities. But I think others have used those drives with no obvious problems. Parking the heads would be a symptom of an IntelliPark issue, but surely that wouldn't spin the drive down, would it? (Anybody?)

Check your drive's power connections. I've seen (years ago) computer hard drives get flaky and even spin down because of a loose power connector. And if you can, check the output voltages of your power supply under load, especially the 12 volt. TiVo power supplies can fail, too. Look for bulging capacitors while you're in there. And check the specs to see how much power your drive draws. When I put a 1TB in my TiVo HD or a 2TB in my Premiere (I forget which now), I was surprised to see that it actually draws less power than the OEM drive. One reason people avoid 7200 rpm drives is that they draw more power (causing them to also generate more heat).


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> The copy process worked flawlessly. All of the old programs are pefectly intact. I don't think it is the format issue, I am pretty convinced by the behavior it is the idle timer or intellipark issu - It records perfectly as well when it doesn't "go to sleep". When it is in its narcoleptic fits, I can hear the disc spin down and a clicking noise that I believe has been reported elsewhere as the heads parking. So, the problem remains if there is a period of five minutes where the hard drive doesn't see a comand from the processor, the idle timer kicks in and parks the heads. What bothers me, is the wdidle3.exe program reporting the timer disabled in the begining, and then when I persisted by giving the /d command anyway and verifying it was still disabled I ran into the reboot loop problem pretty quick. But I am now seeing that the /s300 (five minutes) option doesn't get me home free either. Doggone I wish hard drives weren't so darned expesnive right now.......


The hard drive in a TiVo is working every fraction of every second, if nothing else writing and reading back the 30 minute cache.

The only time it gets a break is when you pull the power cord out of the wall, or when the TiVo does a soft reboot.

It's the soft reboot where Intellipark causes problems.

Maybe you got a good model, but a bad indivual unit of that model.

Or maybe you copied over corrupt data from the Hitachi, and that's causing the problem.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> The hard drive in a TiVo is working every fraction of every second, if nothing else writing and reading back the 30 minute cach........


I even tried getting it to record while trying to watch a different show previously recorded. All I know is, this afternoon when I first reported the bug, it was doing its reboot loop every couple of hours. My wife and I tried to watch an epsiode of Harry's Law this evening and we went from 10 minute increments to five minute increments to 30 seconds before giving up and killing power to the entire entertainment system - in other-words, the TiVo was going into reboot mode every few minutes even with obivous pronounced disc activity (I had no idea there was as much until unitron posted his coment above). I am going to put the old 1 TB Hitachi back in tomorrow and see what happens. While I am doing that, I will take a peek at voltages with the current HDD in it before I pull it.....I have already inspected the capacitors....all good there.

Thanks for the help everyone. This is getting a little frustrating.

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> I even tried getting it to record while trying to watch a different show previously recorded. All I know is, this afternoon when I first reported the bug, it was doing its reboot loop every couple of hours. My wife and I tried to watch an epsiode of Harry's Law this evening and we went from 10 minute increments to five minute increments to 30 seconds before giving up and killing power to the entire entertainment system - in other-words, the TiVo was going into reboot mode every few minutes even with obivous pronounced disc activity (I had no idea there was as much until unitron posted his coment above). I am going to put the old 1 TB Hitachi back in tomorrow and see what happens. While I am doing that, I will take a peek at voltages with the current HDD in it before I pull it.....I have already inspected the capacitors....all good there.
> 
> Thanks for the help everyone. This is getting a little frustrating.
> 
> BJ


You mentioned wanting to save some of the stuff on the Hitachi.

If you haven't added any non-expendable recordings to the WD, download my TCD652160 images (that's your model number, right?) and use WinMFS to restore the .tbk one to the WD, but don't let it expand, just let it use the first 160GB.

Try that in your TiVo.

You'll have to go through Guided Setup and all that, but the software won't be suspect, so that eliminates a variable.

Actually if you have a known good SATA drive of 160GB or larger, that would work as well.

If the TiVo is currently soft-rebooting, but actually able to get past the welcome screen to the few more minutes screen and then on to TiVo Central and being able to watch live tv and change channels or play back recordings, even if it reboots again after a few minutes, then Intellipark is probably disabled, because with the factory default setting of 8 seconds, it prevents a reboot from ever getting past the welcome screen (which is on the motherboard) to the few more minutes screen (which is on the hard drive).

I suppose it is just barely possible that Intellipark is disabled by having the "no activity" period set to something high, like 5 minutes, which ordinarily would amount to the same thing, but that the Intellipark timer is not getting the message that drive activity is going on, even though it is, and so is putting the drive to sleep at the end of the 5 minutes, which would cause a reboot.

I consider the chances of that to be extremely unlikely and would suspect other causes first, like something wrong on the motherboard, or even more likely, something wrong with the power supply despite lack of visual evidence.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> You mentioned wanting to save some of the stuff on the Hitachi.
> 
> If you haven't added any non-expendable recordings to the WD, ........Actually if you have a known good SATA drive of 160GB or larger, that would work as well.......


Thanks unitron, as you also suggested I may download your image for the TDC652160 - also, I do have a clean 1 TB drive (a WD10EVDS) and I also have the original 160 GB drive, although that was before cable made it out to my house (I live out in the boonies and in the foothills where ridge and tree-lines made satellite a no-go, but managed to get a decent digital signal from a roof-top antenna from Seattle) so the original drive will be sans cable card settings.

There is one show on the WD I am trying to copy off to my PC as I type this. I am now suspecting an issue with the power supply, tivo mother board, or the new WD that is heat related. I noted a pattern of the reboots getting closer and closer together the longer the unit had been running. After a cold soak overnight, we finally got through the show that we were trying to watch in five minute increments between reboots last night. I am hoping to get the 2 hrs of material copied off before it goes into loops, and then I will start some diagnostics - strange that none of this was going on before the drive upgrade. Just an occsasional freeze frame and stutter that made me think the Hitachi was showing its age.

BJ


----------



## L David Matheny

BigJon said:


> I am now suspecting an issue with the power supply, tivo mother board, or the new WD that is heat related. I noted a pattern of the reboots getting closer and closer together the longer the unit had been running. After a cold soak overnight, we finally got through the show that we were trying to watch in five minute increments between reboots last night. I am hoping to get the 2 hrs of material copied off before it goes into loops, and then I will start some diagnostics - strange that none of this was going on before the drive upgrade. Just an occsasional freeze frame and stutter that made me think the Hitachi was showing its age.
> 
> BJ


Have you verified that the cooling fan is working? They fail sometimes, too.


----------



## BigJon

L David Matheny said:


> Have you verified that the cooling fan is working? They fail sometimes, too.


I had it apart and checked the fan operation, which appeared to be normal - it put out a pretty good draw. Hard drive power and data connections were all secure, and the cables looked to be fine. I checked no-load voltages coming from the power supply output to the motherboard and found votages of just over 3 vdc on one of the pins and just over 6 vdc on three or four of the others (sorry at this point I can't remember and it seems this is not the issue anyway at this point), with no voltage on the remaining pins (using a power supply mounting screw as the ground). Did not have a small enough probe to check votage output on the HDD power cord.

Put the original 160 GB HDD in and booted up and went through guided setup - unfortunately wound up with someone at Comcast who could see my cable card but could not understand how to flash it/pair it back up to my TiVo so I wound up with three year old programs (time capsule  ) and the inability to watch in antenna reception because it kept trying to find cable channels the cable card wouldn't let it have - however, I think the culprit in all this may be pointing back to the WD20EURS. I replaced the hard drive in the middle of the Tivo having one of its reboot loops that wound up locking it into GSOD, so the good effects of last nights cold soak were long gone (and I didn't quite make the program transfer either....the unit's up time before the first re-boot was about three and a half hours - or about 20 minutes short of completing the program transfer). The original HDD has been running now for about three hours and no re-boots. If it is still awake tomorrow morning, I am going to put the 1 TB Hitachi back in and then ponder why the WD20EURS failed......and what is wrong with it since DLGDiagnostic dosn't report any errors. This continues to be a frustrating problem to chase out.

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> I had it apart and checked the fan operation, which appeared to be normal - it put out a pretty good draw. Hard drive power and data connections were all secure, and the cables looked to be fine. I checked no-load voltages coming from the power supply output to the motherboard and found votages of just over 3 vdc on one of the pins and just over 6 vdc on three or four of the others (sorry at this point I can't remember and it seems this is not the issue anyway at this point), with no voltage on the remaining pins (using a power supply mounting screw as the ground). Did not have a small enough probe to check votage output on the HDD power cord.
> 
> Put the original 160 GB HDD in and booted up and went through guided setup - unfortunately wound up with someone at Comcast who could see my cable card but could not understand how to flash it/pair it back up to my TiVo so I wound up with three year old programs (time capsule  ) and the inability to watch in antenna reception because it kept trying to find cable channels the cable card wouldn't let it have - however, I think the culprit in all this may be pointing back to the WD20EURS. I replaced the hard drive in the middle of the Tivo having one of its reboot loops that wound up locking it into GSOD, so the good effects of last nights cold soak were long gone (and I didn't quite make the program transfer either....the unit's up time before the first re-boot was about three and a half hours - or about 20 minutes short of completing the program transfer). The original HDD has been running now for about three hours and no re-boots. If it is still awake tomorrow morning, I am going to put the 1 TB Hitachi back in and then ponder why the WD20EURS failed......and what is wrong with it since DLGDiagnostic dosn't report any errors. This continues to be a frustrating problem to chase out.
> 
> BJ


The orange wire (I think there's only one) should be +3.3V, the red wire(s) should be +5V, and the yellow wire(s) should be +12V, and the black wires are all ground, which is always supposed to read 0V relative to ground.

You can wrap a couple of layers of paper towel around a hard drive and put it in the freezer overnight before doing something stressful to it.

The paper towel keeps moisture from condensing on it when you bring it out of the freezer and as a bonus leaves all the skin on your hands instead of the drive case.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> You can wrap a couple of layers of paper towel around a hard drive and put it in the freezer overnight before doing something stressful to it.
> 
> The paper towel keeps moisture from condensing on it when you bring it out of the freezer and as a bonus leaves all the skin on your hands instead of the drive case.


Is that called "freeze drive"...


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> Is that called "freeze drive"...


:up:


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> The orange wire (I think there's only one) should be +3.3V, the red wire(s) should be +5V, and the yellow wire(s) should be +12V, and the black wires are all ground, which is always supposed to read 0V relative to ground.
> 
> You can wrap a couple of layers of paper towel around a hard drive and put it in the freezer overnight before doing something stressful to it.
> 
> The paper towel keeps moisture from condensing on it when you bring it out of the freezer and as a bonus leaves all the skin on your hands instead of the drive case.


Thanks unitron.....I'm having enough trouble without freezing my drive though  Actually it is my drive that is freezing my Tivo 

Turns out the no-load voltages I was taking from the power supply weren't really telling me anything. So I made a probe that could get where it needed to go while stuck on an alligator clip and made voltage checks with the original 160 GB drive still in the unit (which ran overnight just fine - no rebooting). I got the expected voltages that unitron said I should get from the approtiate colored wires. I was able to check the yellow and red leads for the power cable to the HDD as well (under no load however) and they showed 5.1 vdc and 7.1 vdc respectively.

I put the Hitachi 1 TB drive back in and it has been running all afternoon (in excess of four hours) without any reboots - unfortunately, the cable card issue that came up with sticking the original 160 GB HDD in goobered up my HBO channel settings that were on the Hitachi and even calling Comcast and getting the cable card paired again to authorize the movie channels did nothing for the Tivo to see them. All I managed to get from Comcast flashing the card was going from seeing the cable card screen whenever I tried to access a HBO channel to seeing a blank screen with the HBO logo in the upper right hand corner. Now, I 'm going to need to go get a new cable card before I try to do a JMFS transfer to a different 2 TB drive. I got my hands on a Hitachi HDS7230BLA642 locally and was going try the copy tonight, but now I'd be copying bad cable card pairing data over so I'll wait unitl I get that part fixed.

Still leaves the question of what went wrong with the WD20EURS drive......of course I'm still assuming my PC/CPU did not pass anyting along during the JMFS copy that would have caused an issue (hence I really want to try a different drive and see what happens). With an Asus P5B, Intell dual core processor, and a JMicron Sata2 expander (used to connect my Thermaltake hot swap rack) I have a pretty low-tech but robust platform. I did have the 1 TB Hitachi in the hot swap bay during the JMFS copy - I doubt there was any issue there, it just recognizes drives in that bay as additional drives (it is not set up as a raid controller).

I'll post again once I've fixed the cable card issue and have copied and expanded using the new Hitachi 2 TB drive instead this time.

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> Thanks unitron.....I'm having enough trouble without freezing my drive though  Actually it is my drive that is freezing my Tivo
> 
> Turns out the no-load voltages I was taking from the power supply weren't really telling me anything. So I made a probe that could get where it needed to go while stuck on an alligator clip and made voltage checks with the original 160 GB drive still in the unit (which ran overnight just fine - no rebooting). I got the expected voltages that unitron said I should get from the approtiate colored wires. I was able to check the yellow and red leads for the power cable to the HDD as well (under no load however) and they showed 5.1 vdc and 7.1 vdc respectively. ...
> 
> BJ


The yellow wire that runs to the hard drive and the yellow wire that runs to the plug that goes into the socket on the motherboard both connect to the same place on the power supply. There is only one +12V output section to the power supply, and the motherboard and the hard drive share it. No matter where you measure either yellow wire, you should get +12V referenced to ground (any of the black wires or the metal chassis itself).

The red wire going to the hard drive is connected at the same place on the power supply as all of the other red wires.

Same deal as the yellow wires, except this time it's the only +5V output on the power supply and any red wire should read +5V relative to ground.

If you accidentally measured between the red wire and the yellow wire, the difference between +5 and +12 is +7. In other words, +12V is 7V more positive than +5V. Computer case modders sometimes do this on purpose to run 12V fans on 7V to make them slower and less noisy.

But there's nothing in a TiVo that needs 7V.

Trying to measure inside SATA power plugs is much trickier than the old 4 pin Molex sockets used on PATA/IDE drives.

To measure TiVo voltages, clip the black lead to the chassis on the side away from the power supply and stick the red lead probe down into the individual holes of the back of the plug that goes into the socket on the motherboard.

If you have steady hands and no alligator clip for the black lead probe, stick it into one of the holes with a black wire as far from the colored wire you wish to measure as possible to avoid accidentally shorting them together.

All the black wires are tied together at the power supply where they are soldered to an area of copper that also extends to the screw holes on the power supply circuit board, so all of them and the metal chassis are at the same potential, electrically speaking.

All of the red wires are joined electrically at the power supply circuit board and are therefore electrically identical.

Same with the 2 yellow wires.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> The yellow wire that runs to the hard drive and the yellow wire that runs to the plug that goes into the socket on the motherboard both connect to the same place on the power supply. There is only one +12V output section to the power supply, and the motherboard and the hard drive share it.......(snip)....


Thanks once again unitron. The plot thickens, although it may be headed in a direction that unitron may have (am I putting words in your mouth? ) suspected all along and that is the power supply; I had my first spontaneous reboot with the Hitachi 1 TB drive running in the unit, and it happened at a really rotten time - in the middle of guided setup as I was fixing the cable card issue from the problem I spoke of in an earlier post. The screen was stuck on the first "Welcome Powering Up" message and didn't move off of it. I cycled power after a 15 second delay, and it booted up normally, and I was able to finish guided setup. That was the only reboot so far this evening.

The no-load voltage readings I received from the power supply connector that goes to the mother board continue to bother me in that I never saw a 12 volt reading; only after loading by plugging the power supply in and plugging the hard drive cable in did I get the 12 volt reading on the yellow cable using my improvised probe on the connector.

I am not familiar with power supplies that regulate their voltage down when no load is sensed and I thought that there would be a constant voltage maintained despite current draw. Also, when I took the no-load voltage readings I could hear a capacitor discharging every half second or so (a rhythmic click-click-click-click-click, and so on). I just do not know enough about power supplies to nail if that capacitor discharging is a sure sign of trouble going on, or a normal operational mode for the large capacitor on the board.

The no-load voltages were 3.3 vdc on the orange leads, 5.1 vdc on the red leads, and a varied (not study but bouncing) voltage of 6.5 - 7.1 vdc on the yellow lead.

Does anyone have any similar result for a no-load voltage test? What about the capacitor discharge noise? I am going to postpone doing a JFMS copy onto the 2 TB Hitachi drive I picked up yesterday until I can get a better idea of whether the power supply is a prime suspect. If there should be a 12 vdc reading on the yellow lead regardless of load, then if I could be pointed to a member that sells refurbed or new power supplies, that would be great - - I am going to be heading out of town in a week and a half and I would like to get this issue resolved so that I've got both capacity and a functional Tivo to record in my absence.

Thanks to everyone who has followed this weird path. If we were all to conclude "it was the power supply that done it", I think we could also surmise for whatever reasons, the Hitachi drive was less susceptible to the culprit than the WD20EURS was.

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> Thanks once again unitron. The plot thickens, although it may be headed in a direction that unitron may have (am I putting words in your mouth? ) suspected all along and that is the power supply; I had my first spontaneous reboot with the Hitachi 1 TB drive running in the unit, and it happened at a really rotten time - in the middle of guided setup as I was fixing the cable card issue from the problem I spoke of in an earlier post. The screen was stuck on the first "Welcome Powering Up" message and didn't move off of it. I cycled power after a 15 second delay, and it booted up normally, and I was able to finish guided setup. That was the only reboot so far this evening.
> 
> The no-load voltage readings I received from the power supply connector that goes to the mother board continue to bother me in that I never saw a 12 volt reading; only after loading by plugging the power supply in and plugging the hard drive cable in did I get the 12 volt reading on the yellow cable using my improvised probe on the connector.
> 
> I am not familiar with power supplies that regulate their voltage down when no load is sensed and I thought that there would be a constant voltage maintained despite current draw. Also, when I took the no-load voltage readings I could hear a capacitor discharging every half second or so (a rhythmic click-click-click-click-click, and so on). I just do not know enough about power supplies to nail if that capacitor discharging is a sure sign of trouble going on, or a normal operational mode for the large capacitor on the board.
> 
> The no-load voltages were 3.3 vdc on the orange leads, 5.1 vdc on the red leads, and a varied (not study but bouncing) voltage of 6.5 - 7.1 vdc on the yellow lead.
> 
> Does anyone have any similar result for a no-load voltage test? What about the capacitor discharge noise? I am going to postpone doing a JFMS copy onto the 2 TB Hitachi drive I picked up yesterday until I can get a better idea of whether the power supply is a prime suspect. If there should be a 12 vdc reading on the yellow lead regardless of load, then if I could be pointed to a member that sells refurbed or new power supplies, that would be great - - I am going to be heading out of town in a week and a half and I would like to get this issue resolved so that I've got both capacity and a functional Tivo to record in my absence.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has followed this weird path. If we were all to conclude "it was the power supply that done it", I think we could also surmise for whatever reasons, the Hitachi drive was less susceptible to the culprit than the WD20EURS was.
> 
> BJ


With switching supplies, you can't assume lack of output in an unloaded condition means the same thing it does in the old style big heavy transformer before the AC is turned into DC type supplies.

I would measure TiVo PS voltages only with either the motherboard connected, or the hard drive connected, if not both.

In your case, I'd recommend hooking up the motherboard, clipping the meter's ground lead to the chassis on the side away from the power supply, sticking the red meter lead's metal probe tip down into the hole in the mobo plug into which the yellow wire goes, so that it's wedged against the metal end of the wire, then plug in the TiVo (have the cord already in the back of the TiVo, do the plugging and unplugging at the wall socket), and see what reading you get (already have the meter set on the right range).

It should read +12V, or right close.

Then plug the combo data/power lead into the hard drive and see how much change, if any, there is in the reading. It should stay steady.

Then unplug stuff and do it again, only this time start by measuring one of the red wires at the motherboard, which should read right around +5V, and then add the drive again, and see if the reading holds steady.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> .....(snip).......In your case, I'd recommend hooking up the motherboard, clipping the meter's ground lead to the chassis on the side away from the power supply, sticking the red meter lead's metal probe tip down into the hole in the mobo plug into which the yellow wire goes, so that it's wedged against the metal end of the wire, then plug in the TiVo (have the cord already in the back of the TiVo, do the plugging and unplugging at the wall socket), and see what reading you get (already have the meter set on the right range).
> 
> It should read +12V, or right close.
> 
> Then plug the combo data/power lead into the hard drive and see how much change, if any, there is in the reading. It should stay steady.
> 
> Then unplug stuff and do it again, only this time start by measuring one of the red wires at the motherboard, which should read right around +5V, and then add the drive again, and see if the reading holds steady.


Thanks unitron. I did have two more spontaneous reboots with the 1 TB Hitachi; once in the middle of the night when I was up, I happened to check it and found it was stuck on the first "Welcome Powering Up" screen. I recycled power with the 15 second delay and it booted up normally. This morning I found it stuck on the first powering up screen again. FWIW, these symptoms were not present before I started down the JMFS upgrade path; as I mentioned in my earliest posts, the only aging issue with this drive was an occasional freeze frame of a few seconds or a few seconds of stutter framing.

The voltage tests revealed no change on the red leads; at the mobo plug (with the PS plugged into the MB) during power-up, before hard drive connection, and after the hard drive combo data/power plug was snapped on, I got a consistent + 4.9 vdc at the mobo plug lead and the hard drive power lead.

A little bit different story on the yellow lead. With the mobo plug connected to the MB and the hard drive disconnected, I got a + 12.4 vdc reading at the mobo plug lead as well as the yellow lead on the hard drive connector. With my Fluke meter's probe lodged in the mobo plug's yellow lead slot as you suggested, the moment I snapped the hard drive connector on, the voltage dropped to 11.4 and swung between 11.4 and 11.8 during boot- up. The further into boot the drive progressed, the closer to + 12.0 vdc the reading got. It stabilized at + 12.1 vdc.

This time I did notice the cooling fan spun down. It did not spin all the way down to a halt, but it spun down to the point where it was not drawing much air.....I would have to say the cooling efficiency would have sucked. In fact, I probably mistook the cooling fan spin-down as disc spin down when I reported hearing the same on the WD20EURS in an earlier post.

So, do the voltage fluctuations suggest the power supply? Does the fact that we seem to be stuck at either the GSOD (when the WD20EURS was doing its reboot loops) or the first power-up screen mean the MB is dying? I really hope we can find the answer soon (and without putting my 160 GB drive back in as I would hate to go through the cable card fiasco with Comcast again). Or could it possibly be as simple as the cooling fan spinning down and everything overheating as David M mentioned a few posts back??

Really do appreciate the group's help here.

Thanks,

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> Thanks unitron. I did have two more spontaneous reboots with the 1 TB Hitachi; once in the middle of the night when I was up, I happened to check it and found it was stuck on the first "Welcome Powering Up" screen. I recycled power with the 15 second delay and it booted up normally. This morning I found it stuck on the first powering up screen again. FWIW, these symptoms were not present before I started down the JMFS upgrade path; as I mentioned in my earliest posts, the only aging issue with this drive was an occasional freeze frame of a few seconds or a few seconds of stutter framing.
> 
> The voltage tests revealed no change on the red leads; at the mobo plug (with the PS plugged into the MB) during power-up, before hard drive connection, and after the hard drive combo data/power plug was snapped on, I got a consistent + 4.9 vdc at the mobo plug lead and the hard drive power lead.
> 
> A little bit different story on the yellow lead. With the mobo plug connected to the MB and the hard drive disconnected, I got a + 12.4 vdc reading at the mobo plug lead as well as the yellow lead on the hard drive connector. With my Fluke meter's probe lodged in the mobo plug's yellow lead slot as you suggested, the moment I snapped the hard drive connector on, the voltage dropped to 11.4 and swung between 11.4 and 11.8 during boot- up. The further into boot the drive progressed, the closer to + 12.0 vdc the reading got. It stabilized at + 12.1 vdc.
> 
> This time I did notice the cooling fan spun down. It did not spin all the way down to a halt, but it spun down to the point where it was not drawing much air.....I would have to say the cooling efficiency would have sucked. In fact, I probably mistook the cooling fan spin-down as disc spin down when I reported hearing the same on the WD20EURS in an earlier post.
> 
> So, do the voltage fluctuations suggest the power supply? Does the fact that we seem to be stuck at either the GSOD (when the WD20EURS was doing its reboot loops) or the first power-up screen mean the MB is dying? I really hope we can find the answer soon (and without putting my 160 GB drive back in as I would hate to go through the cable card fiasco with Comcast again). Or could it possibly be as simple as the cooling fan spinning down and everything overheating as David M mentioned a few posts back??
> 
> Really do appreciate the group's help here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BJ


You can't really make any assumptions based on what the fan does _when the cover is off_.

The fan's speed is controlled by the motherboard based on a temperature sensor on the motherboard.

That fluctuation in the 12 V line is probably at the outside edge of the allowable variation while remaining in spec.

Measure the 12V line again, this time with drive attached, plug TiVo into wall socket while watching meter, and see what happens.

When the drive first spins up is when it would draw the most current and pull down the voltage the most, but the power supply is supposed to be able to keep the voltage fairly steady in the face of current demand changes.

You might want to take the power supply out (watch out for the little screw that goes through the back panel from the outside into the top of the AC input socket, needs a #8 or #9 Torx), and looking at where the yellow wires enter it, turn it over and look at that particular area of copper, and then find the capacitor or capacitors whose + lead connects to that and whose - lead connects to the copper area which the black wires connect to and which also are where the screw holes are, that's ground.

Even if that cap or those caps don't look bad, consider going ahead and replacing it or them.

And examine all of the other caps very closely as well.

Check out the picture here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479176

for how subtle the visual clues can be.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> .....(snip)....That fluctuation in the 12 V line is probably at the outside edge of the allowable variation while remaining in spec.
> 
> Measure the 12V line again, this time with drive attached, plug TiVo into wall socket while watching meter, and see what happens........(snip again)....
> 
> Even if that cap or those caps don't look bad, consider going ahead and replacing it or them.
> 
> And examine all of the other caps very closely as well.
> 
> Check out the picture here
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479176
> 
> for how subtle the visual clues can be.


OK, if I understood unitron's directions, I started this time with the Fluke meter's probe lodged in the power supply mother board connector's yellow lead, and then cycled power on; voltage reads are as follows, all + volts dc: 12.3 for less than a second, then immediately dropping to 11.3-11.5 for first minute of boot; 11.5 -11-8 for second minute of boot; 11.8 for third minute of boot; 11-8 12.2 after boot complete and voltage stabilized at 12.2 this time.

I've got some programming I'm trying to record tonight. I will take the power supply out tomorrow morning and inspect the solder connections and also really scrutinize the capacitors - - I wasn't looking for chubby guys, I thought the ones with split tops and oozing innards were the signs of DOA....apparently there are some subtle signs of impending doom as those photos show.

Replacing the caps will take me back to my Heathkit building days  too bad you have to have crappy consumer electronics to get the good old Heathkit experience any more. In terms of expediency, would it be wise to put in a new/refurb power supply? I could always do the cap replacement and hang on to this one as a back-up. It seemed to me I saw a link somewhere in one of the forums for replacement power supplies - - anybody got any ideas?

Thanks again for the help. I'll report back on the capacitor inspection when complete. Any comments on the voltages I reported in this latest test would be appreciated as well.

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> OK, if I understood unitron's directions, I started this time with the Fluke meter's probe lodged in the power supply mother board connector's yellow lead, and then cycled power on; voltage reads are as follows, all + volts dc: 12.3 for less than a second, then immediately dropping to 11.3-11.5 for first minute of boot; 11.5 -11-8 for second minute of boot; 11.8 for third minute of boot; 11-8 12.2 after boot complete and voltage stabilized at 12.2 this time.
> 
> I've got some programming I'm trying to record tonight. I will take the power supply out tomorrow morning and inspect the solder connections and also really scrutinize the capacitors - - I wasn't looking for chubby guys, I thought the ones with split tops and oozing innards were the signs of DOA....apparently there are some subtle signs of impending doom as those photos show.
> 
> Replacing the caps will take me back to my Heathkit building days  too bad you have to have crappy consumer electronics to get the good old Heathkit experience any more. In terms of expediency, would it be wise to put in a new/refurb power supply? I could always do the cap replacement and hang on to this one as a back-up. It seemed to me I saw a link somewhere in one of the forums for replacement power supplies - - anybody got any ideas?
> 
> Thanks again for the help. I'll report back on the capacitor inspection when complete. Any comments on the voltages I reported in this latest test would be appreciated as well.
> 
> BJ


Do you want to spend $10 or $100?

You can buy another supply from Weaknees, or possibly on eBay.

The 652s apparently had two different power supply designs at different times, so you might not be able to swap parts between them, although either should work with any 652 motherboard, and apparently both are possible capacitor disease candidates.


----------



## unitron

That fluctuation in the 12V line may be normal and within specs, but I can't be sure.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to open up my 652 and do some tests and I really would just as soon not.


----------



## Soapm

Just curious Bigjon, you don't happen to have a linux box do you? If you do I would suggest pulling the drive and reading the logs before you spend any money. You can also post the logs here and let some of the eyes take a peek. Also, if you have the original drive you might want to put it in and see what it does. You say the 1TB was freeze framing so maybe it just got sicker. But then that wouldn't explain why two drives have the same symptom.

I put a 2TB in my THD and it starting rebooting every 20 minutes. Then it started doing it with my 1TB drive. I put the stock drive back in for a month and no problem.

I've now had the 2TB in for about a month and no reboots. I'm hoping yours just starts working like mine...

*Edited to add...*

Also bigjon, can you post a new partition map of the upgraded drive? I ask because it dawned on me that jmfs leaves a little empty space at the end of the drive and if it did this with you then you have 17 partitions. I say this because the map you posted above from your upgraded 1TB has 15 partitions so if jmfs left that space you have 17 which might be your problem. Your tivo thinks it has an external drive. Look at my partition 14, that is that little extra space it leaves.



Code:


Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
 #:                type name                         length   base       ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                            63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
 2:               Image Bootstrap 1                       1 @ 309549120
 3:               Image Kernel 1                       8192 @ 309549121  (   4.0M)
 4:                Ext2 Root 1                       524288 @ 309557313  ( 256.0M)
 5:               Image Bootstrap 2                       1 @ 310081601
 6:               Image Kernel 2                       8192 @ 310081602  (   4.0M)
 7:                Ext2 Root 2                       524288 @ 310089794  ( 256.0M)
 8:                Swap Linux swap                   262144 @ 310614082  ( 128.0M)
 9:                Ext2 /var                         524288 @ 310876226  ( 256.0M)
10:                 MFS MFS application region       589824 @ 311400514  ( 288.0M)
11:                 MFS MFS media region          137629696 @ 171919424  (  65.6G)
12:                 MFS MFS application region 2     589824 @ 311990338  ( 288.0M)
13:                 MFS MFS media region 2        171919360 @ 64         (  81.9G)
[B]14:          Apple_Free Extra                          1645 @ 312580162  ( 822.5K)[/B]
15:                 MFS MFS media region 3       3594447361 @ 312581807  (   1.6T)


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> Just curious Bigjon, you don't happen to have a linux box do you? If you do I would suggest pulling the drive and reading the logs before you spend any money. You can also post the logs here and let some of the eyes take a peek. Also, if you have the original drive you might want to put it in and see what it does. You say the 1TB was freeze framing so maybe it just got sicker. But then that wouldn't explain why two drives have the same symptom.
> 
> I put a 2TB in my THD and it starting rebooting every 20 minutes. Then it started doing it with my 1TB drive. I put the stock drive back in for a month and no problem.
> 
> I've now had the 2TB in for about a month and no reboots. I'm hoping yours just starts working like mine...
> 
> *Edited to add...*
> 
> Also bigjon, can you post a new partition map of the upgraded drive? I ask because it dawned on me that jmfs leaves a little empty space at the end of the drive and if it did this with you then you have 17 partitions. I say this because the map you posted above from your upgraded 1TB has 15 partitions so if jmfs left that space you have 17 which might be your problem. Your tivo thinks it has an external drive. Look at my partition 14, that is that little extra space it leaves.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
> #:                type name                         length   base       ( size )
> 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                            63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
> 2:               Image Bootstrap 1                       1 @ 309549120
> 3:               Image Kernel 1                       8192 @ 309549121  (   4.0M)
> 4:                Ext2 Root 1                       524288 @ 309557313  ( 256.0M)
> 5:               Image Bootstrap 2                       1 @ 310081601
> 6:               Image Kernel 2                       8192 @ 310081602  (   4.0M)
> 7:                Ext2 Root 2                       524288 @ 310089794  ( 256.0M)
> 8:                Swap Linux swap                   262144 @ 310614082  ( 128.0M)
> 9:                Ext2 /var                         524288 @ 310876226  ( 256.0M)
> 10:                 MFS MFS application region       589824 @ 311400514  ( 288.0M)
> 11:                 MFS MFS media region          137629696 @ 171919424  (  65.6G)
> 12:                 MFS MFS application region 2     589824 @ 311990338  ( 288.0M)
> 13:                 MFS MFS media region 2        171919360 @ 64         (  81.9G)
> [B]14:          Apple_Free Extra                          1645 @ 312580162  ( 822.5K)[/B]
> 15:                 MFS MFS media region 3       3594447361 @ 312581807  (   1.6T)


jmfs does not leave space. Not unless you do something to screw up how it normally works.

It copies byte for byte the source drive to the target drive (which means there will only be an Apple Free Partition if there already was one on the source, but since it was designed to work with original TiVo drives, there isn't supposed to be one), and if the target drive is larger than the source drive, which is pretty much the whole idea, it uses all of that extra space in which to create a single MFS Media partition and does some other voodoo to make the TiVo like it.

MFS Live has been known to leave a little extra space when copying to a larger drive and adding an MFS pair, but apparently WinMFS avoids this.

BigJon used WinMFS to copy his 160GB original to a 1TB and expand by adding an MFS pair, so only 15 partitions and no extra space, making him a perfect candidate for jmfs, provided there's nothing else wrong with the TiVo or the underlying physical part of the hard drive(s).

As I recall, you were trying something with a 658 image to go on a 652, so there's no telling what you may have wound up with.

Unless I've confused you with another TCF'er with whom I've discussed the whole partition 17 danger. After a while it all starts to run together.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> jmfs does not leave space. Not unless you do something to screw up how it normally works.


If you look at my partition map I upgraded strait from the stock drive to the 2TB using jmfs and I have the extra partition. If you look closely I have a single partition that is 1.6tb in size. I know of only one way to get that and it's jmfs. All other upgrade tools that I know of adds partition pairs.



unitron said:


> As I recall, you were trying something with a 658 image to go on a 652, so there's no telling what you may have wound up with.
> 
> Unless I've confused you with another TCF'er with whom I've discussed the whole partition 17 danger. After a while it all starts to run together.


Its true I tried a lot of things but none of that has anything to do with the partition map I posted. I wouldn't put that kind of confusion into another persons call for help. I don't know if its fair to call my integrity or motives into question.

What I posted is from the stock 160gb drive that I ran for about a month reboot free so I used jmfs to upgrade it directly to 2tb and let it go about 3 weeks before hacking by hand which was a couple of weeks ago. The only thing not stock about this drive is the kernel, bash, iptables, busybox and tivowebplus.

My curiosity can be alleviated by bigjon posting a partition map of his upgraded drive. Its sure a lot easier than replacing a power supply.


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> If you look at my partition map I upgraded strait from the stock drive to the 2TB using jmfs and I have the extra partition. If you look closely I have a single partition that is 1.6tb in size. I know of only one way to get that and it's jmfs. All other upgrade tools that I know of adds partition pairs.
> 
> Its true I tried a lot of things but none of that has anything to do with the partition map I posted. I wouldn't put that kind of confusion into another persons call for help. I don't know if its fair to call my integrity or motives into question.
> 
> What I posted is from the stock 160gb drive that I ran for about a month reboot free so I used jmfs to upgrade it directly to 2tb and let it go about 3 weeks before hacking by hand which was a couple of weeks ago. The only thing not stock about this drive is the kernel, bash, iptables, busybox and tivowebplus.
> 
> My curiosity can be alleviated by bigjon posting a partition map of his upgraded drive. Its sure a lot easier than replacing a power supply.


I'll explain better tonight. After sleep.


----------



## BigJon

Here is the partition and zone map info for the WD20EUS (I grabbed it thinking someone might ask this very question) - there was no apple_free or 17th partition issue here. The Hitachi 1TB had 15 partitions and I believe the 16th partition is standard JMFS practice for the enlarged storage capacity.

(BTW - while I post the WD20EURS data and run out to find a Torx driver small enough to remove the screw holding the AC power input lug into place against the back of the Tivo; I don't have a Torx 5 it seems.....can anyone tell me which were the counterfeit caps, the one's with the gold labeling on black or silver labeling on black [I have the gold] - I don't see any budging yet but I want to take a closer look with the power supply out of the chassis).

And no, I don't have a Linux box - - I am just now going through the process of installing Windows 7 Professional after running XP for 15 years. Closest I get to Linux are the MFSlive and JFMS boot discs.

WD20EURS MFSInfo dump:

Mfsinfo (Drive 5)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15 /dev/hda16
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3905175552

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b6dc2f1c logstamp=7088989 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=17059840 checksum=d4c92fed logstamp=7089236 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=43904 checksum=3fe53c07 logstamp=7089236 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=9299c1dc logstamp=7088989 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=21790720 checksum=f2934e5f logstamp=7089236 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=302544 checksum=3fd21074 logstamp=7089033 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=1951670272 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=1951670338
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
free=444456960 checksum=27f4c7ce logstamp=7089236 num_bitmap=18
Z7:	type=2
map_start=1951670272 map_size=66 backup_map_start=1951670338
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=1951671296 zone_last=3905156095 zone_size=1953484800 min(chunk)=20480
free=1952972800 checksum=f9241b6 logstamp=7088989 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 62 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

Hope this illumitnates something........I seem to be getting deeper into the dark.

BJ


----------



## BigJon

I took the power supply out as unitron suggested. The solder connections on the underside of the board all looked good. What was perhaps suspect was one, possibly two of the 10 V 2200 uf capacitors had the first signs of bulging. Based on what I have seen in the threads on Tivo power supply deaths due to the capacitor plague (and that the reboot issue is common to all those with sick capacitors except for the ones that just grenade - then there are other things that don't work).

So, I am going to pick up a kit of the capacitors I need to replace all of the small ones on the board and just put new ones in from a reliable source. I can probably get all the parts I need locally at Fry's that's in driving range.

I'll report back once I've got the power supply buttoned back up and have a new image on the WD20EURS (I'll need to re-do the JMFS copy since there is new cable card data on the Hitachi 1 TB drive).

Thanks for everyone's help.

BJ


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> If you look at my partition map I upgraded strait from the stock drive to the 2TB using jmfs and I have the extra partition. If you look closely I have a single partition that is 1.6tb in size. I know of only one way to get that and it's jmfs. All other upgrade tools that I know of adds partition pairs.
> 
> Its true I tried a lot of things but none of that has anything to do with the partition map I posted. I wouldn't put that kind of confusion into another persons call for help. I don't know if its fair to call my integrity or motives into question.
> 
> What I posted is from the stock 160gb drive that I ran for about a month reboot free so I used jmfs to upgrade it directly to 2tb and let it go about 3 weeks before hacking by hand which was a couple of weeks ago. The only thing not stock about this drive is the kernel, bash, iptables, busybox and tivowebplus.
> 
> My curiosity can be alleviated by bigjon posting a partition map of his upgraded drive. Its sure a lot easier than replacing a power supply.


I'm quite sure you'd never willingly or knowingly attempt to de-rail someone else's attempt to get help here, and I sincerely hope we will not have a falling out about this. I apologize if anything I said made you feel I had accused you of anything untoward.

That said, and wishing that comer still came around to answer questions, I feel almost certain that the Apple Free partition was already on your source drive before jmfs did any copying, and further, since comer probably didn't forsee any need for it, jmfs probably can't even create any kind of partition except for an MFS Media one.

When you say stock 160GB drive, do you mean one that came in the TiVo from the factory and that was never re-imaged in any way?


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> I took the power supply out as unitron suggested. The solder connections on the underside of the board all looked good. What was perhaps suspect was one, possibly two of the 10 V 2200 uf capacitors had the first signs of bulging. Based on what I have seen in the threads on Tivo power supply deaths due to the capacitor plague (and that the reboot issue is common to all those with sick capacitors except for the ones that just grenade - then there are other things that don't work).
> 
> So, I am going to pick up a kit of the capacitors I need to replace all of the small ones on the board and just put new ones in from a reliable source. I can probably get all the parts I need locally at Fry's that's in driving range.
> 
> I'll report back once I've got the power supply buttoned back up and have a new image on the WD20EURS (I'll need to re-do the JMFS copy since there is new cable card data on the Hitachi 1 TB drive).
> 
> Thanks for everyone's help.
> 
> BJ


Obviously those 10V caps aren't across the 12V line (unless there was a mistake made at the place where the power supply was made), so I'm guessing they're on the 5V one. It's a little odd, since the 5V line seems to be so much steadier than the 12.

The reason for looking at the underside of the supply isn't to check how well things are soldered, it's to see which things are soldered to which area of copper so as to figure out what's connected to what.

For instance, the copper "land" to which the yellow wires are both connected should also have the + terminal of one or maybe two capacitors also sticking through from the other side and soldered in place. There should also be one end of a coil of what looks like bare wire (but it's actually insulated with a thin layer of varnish of some sort).

The - lead of that capacitor or those capacitors should be sticking through a different copper land, one to which all of the black wires are connected. That's ground.

That's how you identify which cap or caps is/are across the +12V output.

The same technique will work for the +5V output, just start with where all the red wires go through the power supply circuit board and work your way back.

Find the cap or caps connected to the 12V line and ground, and the cap or caps connected to the 5V line and ground, and replace those and if the problem is just the power supply, that should do it, and if not then you'll most likely have headed off any future power supply problem.

You want radial (not axial) low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees (celsius), the same uF rating as what you're replacing, and the voltage rating needs to exceed the voltage of the section in which they'll be put. (If by some chance those 10V caps were actually installed on the 12V line instead of the 5, replace them with 16V or 25V ones, depending on what's available).

Radial means both leads come out the bottom. Axial is a type that's more of a tube with one lead comng out of each end.

Make yourself a diagram of what's where, and remember that the replacement caps have to physically fit where the old one's did, so take note of the height and diameter, and how much room is available.

An available replacement may be shorter and wider or taller and skinnier while still being the same uF, Voltage, Temp, and ESR rating.

(Equivalent Series Resistance, in case you wondered)


----------



## tagm1001

What is the consensus on Samsung drives? I am considering using SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI. Anyone know if these drives run quiet and how they compare to WD&#8217;s? Also, are there any tweaks to make this drive quiter?


----------



## slowbiscuit

I just installed a Samsung F3 1TB in a Tivo HD because my less than 2 year old Hitachi 7K1000 1TB was dying. Copied it over with jmfs and it's been working great for a month now. This isn't the latest green model, it's a 7200rpm. Very quiet drive.

The Hitachi death was weird - there weren't a lot of bad sectors, the drive would just hang randomly on reads/writes to certain areas causing a ton of stutter in the Tivo, to the point where it would reboot at times. Most shows recorded and played fine, but some wouldn't depending on the area of the drive it was on, and it slowly got worse over time.


----------



## BigJon

unitron said:


> Obviously those 10V caps aren't across the 12V line (unless there was a mistake made at the place where the power supply was made), so I'm guessing they're on the 5V one. It's a little odd, since the 5V line seems to be so much steadier than the 12.
> 
> The reason for looking at the underside of the supply isn't to check how well things are soldered, it's to see which things are soldered to which area of copper so as to figure out what's connected to what.....(snip)........
> 
> Make yourself a diagram of what's where, and remember that the replacement caps have to physically fit where the old one's did, so take note of the height and diameter, and how much room is available.
> 
> An available replacement may be shorter and wider or taller and skinnier while still being the same uF, Voltage, Temp, and ESR rating.
> 
> (Equivalent Series Resistance, in case you wondered)


OK, thanks for the clarification unitron. I did reinspect for the proper voltages on the caps (or at least greater than what the output dc volts was supposed to be on the given wire lead) and all was as it was supposed to have been. Made my little schematic before I desoldered all of the caps and then went to work, and picked up equivalent radial capacitors (actually, I wound up getting exactly the same spec in terms of uf, voltage, temp - - I just didn't want to add another element to possibly screw things up later). New parts ran around $12.00 and change at Fry's (and a couple of dollars worth of diesel back and forth). Got the new components soldered in and tested the new board voltages with the Hitachi 1 TB drive plugged in. I saw some marginal improvements. At the instant of power on, the yellow lead in the mobo plug showed + 12.38 vdc then dropped right away to 11.5 as the hard drive spun up, however voltage recovery was faster than the same test I performed on the board with the old parts. I was back to + 12.0 vcd at the end of the first minute of boot-up, and the voltage was still recovering towards some higher stasis that I did not wait to record.

My next steps (some already taken) are to do another truncated back-up so I have the new cable card settings, as well as just new settings since the last week or so of having the Hitachi back in the Tivo, reset wdidle3 on the WD20EURS back to /d after running dlgdiag's again and doing a quick erase,
and then doing the JFMS copy, and expand. We'll see what happens. FWIW, before I started to desolder the old caps, I had the Tivo running for a couple more days and there were no further spontaneous reboots. I am beginning to wonder if the reboots with the Hitachi had something to do with my cable card fiasco......we'll see if we start going down that path again once I put the WD20EURS in. If we do, I am going to do a JMFS copy to a 2 TB Hitachi drive I have and see how it behaves.

Now I'm going to go offline here for a bit and turn my computer over to JFMS 

BJ


----------



## BigJon

BigJon said:


> ......(snip)....Got the new components soldered in and tested the new board voltages with the Hitachi 1 TB drive plugged in. I saw some marginal improvements. At the instant of power on, the yellow lead in the mobo plug showed + 12.38 vdc then dropped right away to 11.5 as the hard drive spun up, however voltage recovery was faster than the same test I performed on the board with the old parts. I was back to + 12.0 vcd at the end of the first minute of boot-up.....(snip again).....
> 
> Now I'm going to go offline here for a bit and turn my computer over to JFMS
> 
> BJ


Well success at last (and I knock on wood as I type that  ). My upgraded TiVo HD has been running with a WD20EURS over 24 hrs now without any spontaneous reboots and appears to be functioning normally in every respect. It reports 318 hours of HD capacity, it flawlessly copied over all of the copy protected programing I was wanting to keep, kept all of the cable card settings from the 1 TB Hitachi, and has even weathered a channel line-up change that came in from Comcast.

For whatever reasons it was beginning to appear, to me anyway, that the WD20EURS was more sensitive to the marginal power supply components prior to my replacing them than the Hitachi drive was - the reasons for the two reboots I experienced with the Hitachi drive while I was going back-and-forth with the drives might not be known now, and we can speculate power supply caps or cable card, but I can say for sure the WD drive was barfing with the old capacitors that were giving what unitron thought were marginal/borderline to spec voltage performance on my power supply and the quick test I did on the new caps proved a much better voltage recovery after HD load than the old ones. So, I'd say this mystery is solved, and we do not need to implicate the WD20EURS, which BTW I did reset wdidle3 back to /d which was the factory default on that unit.

Thank you unitron, and all else who suggested ideas for your help with this issue. Much appreciated.

BJ


----------



## unitron

BigJon said:


> Well success at last (and I knock on wood as I type that  ). My upgraded TiVo HD has been running with a WD20EURS over 24 hrs now without any spontaneous reboots and appears to be functioning normally in every respect. It reports 318 hours of HD capacity, it flawlessly copied over all of the copy protected programing I was wanting to keep, kept all of the cable card settings from the 1 TB Hitachi, and has even weathered a channel line-up change that came in from Comcast.
> 
> For whatever reasons it was beginning to appear, to me anyway, that the WD20EURS was more sensitive to the marginal power supply components prior to my replacing them than the Hitachi drive was - the reasons for the two reboots I experienced with the Hitachi drive while I was going back-and-forth with the drives might not be known now, and we can speculate power supply caps or cable card, but I can say for sure the WD drive was barfing with the old capacitors that were giving what unitron thought were marginal/borderline to spec voltage performance on my power supply and the quick test I did on the new caps proved a much better voltage recovery after HD load than the old ones. So, I'd say this mystery is solved, and we do not need to implicate the WD20EURS, which BTW I did reset wdidle3 back to /d which was the factory default on that unit.
> 
> Thank you unitron, and all else who suggested ideas for your help with this issue. Much appreciated.
> 
> BJ


Good to hear.

You should be able to find some Hitachi diagnostic software online somewhere and run their long test on that 1TB, and if it passes, format it all one big NT partition and stick it in a PC running TiVo Desktop and use it for extra show storage.


----------



## David Vaughn

I need an image for a TCD 65800. Is there anywhere I can download one from?


----------



## unitron

David Vaughn said:


> I need an image for a TCD 65800. Is there anywhere I can download one from?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8956047#post8956047


----------



## audiodane

steffen707 said:


> Has anybody used a stock 160gig to copy and expand to a 2tb internal THD and then filled up the drive to see if there are any ill side effects?





Soapm said:


> Yes, lots of people have . Just use jfms and follow the instructions in the upgrade thread.


Hello- Just procured a used (stock) TivoHD/Lifetime with original 160GB drive to replace my frustratingly slow TCD540 Series2..

While I have the skills a plenty to perform an upgrade to a 2TB drive following the instructions herein, I just flat don't have the time. I'm looking to buy a ready-to-go 2TB drive for my stock TivoHD, but not pay an arm-and-a-leg for it. I'm willing to pay a premium, yes, but a reasonable one. I *greatly* respect Weaknees, but $299 for a ready-to-go 2TB drive is ridiculous in my opinion.


Amazon has the bare 2TB drive at around $140, so I'm looking had how much additional I'm willing to pay on top of the bare drive cost.

eBay's "DVR_Dude" has a TivoHD/2TB drive ready-to-go for $190 ($50 more)

eBay's "uoph" has a TivoHD/2TB drive ready-to-go for $170 ($30 more)

Obviously a $30 premium is lower than a $50 premium, so I ask, has anyone any knowledge of eBay's "uoph" and how they structure their drive? I certainly don't want to pay a premium only to find out that I need to redo the upgrade from scratch in a few months due to something they did wrong..

Also, as a side question- When I upgraded my TivoHD about a year ago with a Hitachi drive, Amazon had it for something like $60! Now everything seems to be over $100. What gives? Supply/demand problems?

thanks in advance,
..dane


----------



## GBK33

I have looked through this thread and cannot find an answer. If it is already answered, I apologize. I need to format a new hard drive for a Tivo unit. The old hard drive is bad and needs to be replaced. What software will format a new hard drive for a Tivo?

Thank you


----------



## steve614

GBK33 said:


> I have looked through this thread and cannot find an answer. If it is already answered, I apologize. I need to format a new hard drive for a Tivo unit. The old hard drive is bad and needs to be replaced. What software will format a new hard drive for a Tivo?
> 
> Thank you


If you can find an image for your specific Tivo model in this thread and have access to a PC with Windows, you can use WinMFS to do a restore to a new hard drive.

Edit: Note if you go this route, you will have to perform a Clear and Delete everything once it is installed in the Tivo.


----------



## lpwcomp

GBK33 said:


> I have looked through this thread and cannot find an answer. If it is already answered, I apologize. I need to format a new hard drive for a Tivo unit. The old hard drive is bad and needs to be replaced. What software will format a new hard drive for a Tivo?
> 
> Thank you


What model TiVo? Is the old drive totally dead?


----------



## unitron

audiodane said:


> Hello- Just procured a used (stock) TivoHD/Lifetime with original 160GB drive to replace my frustratingly slow TCD540 Series2..
> 
> While I have the skills a plenty to perform an upgrade to a 2TB drive following the instructions herein, I just flat don't have the time. I'm looking to buy a ready-to-go 2TB drive for my stock TivoHD, but not pay an arm-and-a-leg for it. I'm willing to pay a premium, yes, but a reasonable one. I *greatly* respect Weaknees, but $299 for a ready-to-go 2TB drive is ridiculous in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Amazon has the bare 2TB drive at around $140, so I'm looking had how much additional I'm willing to pay on top of the bare drive cost.
> 
> eBay's "DVR_Dude" has a TivoHD/2TB drive ready-to-go for $190 ($50 more)
> 
> eBay's "uoph" has a TivoHD/2TB drive ready-to-go for $170 ($30 more)
> 
> Obviously a $30 premium is lower than a $50 premium, so I ask, has anyone any knowledge of eBay's "uoph" and how they structure their drive? I certainly don't want to pay a premium only to find out that I need to redo the upgrade from scratch in a few months due to something they did wrong..
> 
> Also, as a side question- When I upgraded my TivoHD about a year ago with a Hitachi drive, Amazon had it for something like $60! Now everything seems to be over $100. What gives? Supply/demand problems?
> 
> thanks in advance,
> ..dane


Last fall there was devastating flooding in Thailand that destroyed a big chunk of the world's hard drive manufacturing capability, as well a big chunk of their supply chain.

The people selling ready to go drives have to provide particular models that have no problems working in a TiVo, and provide a warranty to you.

Up to you if you think the price is reasonable or not, and whether you want to spend the money or spend the time.

If you decide to spend the time I have a couple of suggestions based on my own experience.


----------



## Soapm

audiodane said:


> Obviously a $30 premium is lower than a $50 premium, so I ask, has anyone any knowledge of eBay's "uoph" and how they structure their drive? I certainly don't want to pay a premium only to find out that I need to redo the upgrade from scratch in a few months due to something they did wrong..


The real question is how much is your time worth. Hooking the drive and loading an image using WinMFS takes minutes. And you can do other things while the image is being put on the drive and you can leave the current Tivo in place until you have another 10 minutes to switch the drive.

I honestly think you'll spend more time finding and ordering the drive then you would switching it in the Tivo (if you're a deal hunter like me).


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> Last fall there was devastating flooding in Thailand that destroyed a big chunk of the world's hard drive manufacturing capability, as well a big chunk of their supply chain.


How long should we give them a pass on this? The longer we regurgitate this excuse the longer the prices will stay up. Perhaps we should say the prices are high as well as the profits at the drive manufactures and the bonuses of those executives which is probably more true than the Thai story... (that my $00.02)..


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> How long should we give them a pass on this? The longer we regurgitate this excuse the longer the prices will stay up. Perhaps we should say the prices are high as well as the profits at the drive manufactures and the bonuses of those executives which is probably more true than the Thai story... (that my $00.02)..


Prior to the flood competition between the drive makers was driving prices down.

Are you saying that they took advantage of the flood damage to collude to fix prices?


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Prior to the flood competition between the drive makers was driving prices down.
> 
> Are you saying that they took advantage of the flood damage to collude to fix prices?


Of course. All of the drive and component manufacturers should have been back up to full capacity as soon as the flood waters receded.


----------



## L David Matheny

GBK33 said:


> I have looked through this thread and cannot find an answer. If it is already answered, I apologize. I need to format a new hard drive for a Tivo unit. The old hard drive is bad and needs to be replaced. What software will format a new hard drive for a Tivo?
> 
> Thank you


As others have at least implied, the word "format" doesn't really cover what you need to do to the drive. You need to load it with the version of TiVo operating system and application software appropriate for your unit. This is done by copying an image (available for download) onto it, or you can buy a drive preloaded with the software.


----------



## audiodane

unitron said:


> Up to you if you think the price is reasonable or not, and whether you want to spend the money or spend the time.
> 
> If you decide to spend the time I have a couple of suggestions based on my own experience.


Thanks. I have read a few things about a larger swap partition, but cannot find answers to two questions: First, "why?" Why is a larger swap partition desirable, what is it used for and why does bigger mean better? The second question is, can Tivo software enlarge the partition on-the-fly? (I know, typically it would be sandwiched between two other partitions so "no," but sometimes the stupid questions are the most useful!) In other words, if Tivo themselves are "stuck" with a "smaller" swap partition, then what good does it do anyone else to have a larger one?

The other questions that I have involve how the eBay sellers structure their drives; Are there anything in particular that I need to ask them before I purchase, that I might regret down-the-road if they didn't do it right? I have read things in this thread about partition sizes and other issues. What types of structures on the drive do I need to ensure exist and/or do-NOT exist, before I purchase a prepared drive?



Soapm said:


> The real question is how much is your time worth. Hooking the drive and loading an image using WinMFS takes minutes. And you can do other things while the image is being put on the drive and you can leave the current Tivo in place until you have another 10 minutes to switch the drive.
> 
> I honestly think you'll spend more time finding and ordering the drive then you would switching it in the Tivo (if you're a deal hunter like me).


$30 (or $50 for that matter) is a good chunk of change, but 2012 to-date has been the busiest year on record for myself and my family. It has been absolutely NUTS. Hooking up a drive may take ten minutes, but getting out the mainboard, power supply, finding and burning the necessary CDs, sitting down hooking it all up, running the software, having to go unhook everything and put everything back away-- it becomes an all-evening ordeal. All my home computers are laptops. I have a mainboard and ATX power supply available to do the job that I just lay on the kitchen table when I need to use them (along with digging up a keyboard, mouse, and monitor!), but it's just even more steps involved. So the time it takes me in particular may be longer than the time it may take you who may already have everything prepared and who may have already used this particular software before.

Given $30/$50 premium, the more important question for me -- based on reading a dozen or more of the most recent pages of this thread -- is whether or not these drives in particular are in fact structured the way they should be structured. If not, I'll do it myself. If so, I'll buy one ready-to-go. Given the price of the Weaknees drives, I would by all means do it myself. But $30/$50 is a small price to pay for such convenience at the moment.



Soapm said:


> How long should we give them a pass on this? The longer we regurgitate this excuse the longer the prices will stay up. Perhaps we should say the prices are high as well as the profits at the drive manufactures and the bonuses of those executives which is probably more true than the Thai story... (that my $00.02)..


I think "executive greed" is less a factor than others. It may very well be that supply/demand was upset and drove costs up. But the reality is that whatever people are currently paying, they are STILL paying. Just like when gas shot up three-fold in the early 2000's, the prices remained because the market in fact continued to buy and supported the new prices. A risky move by "big oil" that really paid off. If the market wouldn't bear the price of drives, then the price of drives would drop.

If the sudden rise was due to a flood as mentioned, then I think over TIME the prices will likely fall again due to normal competition. But a sudden drop would only occur if the market was unwilling to bear the current price, which I don't think is the case.

cheers,
..dane


----------



## GBK33

lpwcomp said:


> What model TiVo? Is the old drive totally dead?


TiVo premiere - drive is screwed up. Got it from weaknees, and they won't help me. Thanks for the replies


----------



## unitron

GBK33 said:


> TiVo premiere - drive is screwed up. Got it from weaknees, and they won't help me. Thanks for the replies


Did you get the Premiere from weaknees, or just the drive?

If the entire TiVo, did they replace the stock internal with a larger drive before selling it to you?

If you only got the drive from them, what became of the Premiere's original drive?


----------



## GBK33

Bought it with upgraded drive


----------



## unitron

GBK33 said:


> Bought it with upgraded drive


And the weaknees warranty is already expired?

Ouch.

Seems like they'd offer to do something for you, even if it's just a good price on a pre-imaged drive replacement.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

Just looking at some options.

If wanted to move a 1 TB drive from a TiVoHD to a Premiere, both active. with matching Season Passes. 

I would just take out drives from the TiVoHD and Premiere and use the jmfs CD to Copy the Premiere to the 1TB Drive?
Then I could take my TiVoHD Image I have and use winMFS to apply it to the stock 320GB drive from the Premiere, which I would want to do a C&DE?

I thought about taking out a 1 TB drive from a WD Mybook and replace it with the Premiere drive. I need to look into this, just a thought right now.

Find a HD for the TiVo, 1TB (WD10EARX)@$99 or 2TB @$119 or for the Mybook 350-500GB.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

Well I just won a auction for a used 1TB WD20EARS for $75. I might upgrade 2 of my Premieres to 1 Tb so the TiVoHD downgrade may happen.

$75 sounds like a Ok deal, I do have a 1 wk return period to test the HD out.


----------



## lpwcomp

Leon WIlkinson said:


> Well I just won a auction for a used 1TB WD20EARS for $75. I might upgrade 2 of my Premieres to 1 Tb so the TiVoHD downgrade may happen.
> 
> $75 sounds like a Ok deal, I do have a 1 wk return period to test the HD out.


Are you sure it is 1TB? A WD20EARS is a 2TB drive and, even with current drive prices, $75 for a _*used*_ WD*1*0EARS (the 1TB model) is high.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

That was a typo it was a WD10EADS. The other WD20EARS is another I'm looking at.


----------



## unitron

Leon WIlkinson said:


> Just looking at some options.
> 
> If wanted to move a 1 TB drive from a TiVoHD to a Premiere, both active. with matching Season Passes.
> 
> I would just take out drives from the TiVoHD and Premiere and use the jmfs CD to Copy the Premiere to the 1TB Drive?
> Then I could take my TiVoHD Image I have and use winMFS to apply it to the stock 320GB drive from the Premiere, which I would want to do a C&DE?
> 
> I thought about taking out a 1 TB drive from a WD Mybook and replace it with the Premiere drive. I need to look into this, just a thought right now.
> 
> Find a HD for the TiVo, 1TB (WD10EARX)@$99 or 2TB @$119 or for the Mybook 350-500GB.


Allow me to advise against overwriting the original Premiere drive, since the only image for a Premiere is the original drive. You can't use MFS Live or WinMFS to make a truncated image the way you can with S3s and older.

I know all about trying to do with more with less, money wise, but beware of being what they call being penny wise and pound foolish.

Most any SATA drive 160GB or larger can be used in the S3 HD (if you mean a TCD652160)

(If you mean a TCD648250, the original S3, then of course you need a SATA drive 250GB or larger)

If you have a spare large enough PATA/IDE drive and adapter, you could experiment and report back.

I suspect you'd need an adapter with a Marvell or JMicron chipset, but I've only done it the other way round so far.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

unitron said:


> Allow me to advise against overwriting the original Premiere drive, since the only image for a Premiere is the original drive. You can't use MFS Live or WinMFS to make a truncated image the way you can with S3s and older.
> 
> I know all about trying to do with more with less, money wise, but beware of being what they call being penny wise and pound foolish.
> 
> Most any SATA drive 160GB or larger can be used in the S3 HD (if you mean a TCD652160)
> 
> (If you mean a TCD648250, the original S3, then of course you need a SATA drive 250GB or larger)
> 
> If you have a spare large enough PATA/IDE drive and adapter, you could experiment and report back.
> 
> I suspect you'd need an adapter with a Marvell or JMicron chipset, but I've only done it the other way round so far.


Thank you for the advice!!

I have 3 premieres, from which I believe can be used to make an image for a new Hard Drive for any of them?

The S3 is a 652160.


----------



## unitron

Leon WIlkinson said:


> Thank you for the advice!!
> 
> I have 3 premieres, from which I believe can be used to make an image for a new Hard Drive for any of them?
> 
> The S3 is a 652160.


So if you have 2 working Premieres and one sick one do you want to have to temporarily disable a second one instead of just pulling a drive off of the shelf?

Up to you, of course, just try to forsee what you might be facing.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

unitron said:


> So if you have 2 working Premieres and one sick one do you want to have to temporarily disable a second one instead of just pulling a drive off of the shelf?
> 
> Up to you, of course, just try to forsee what you might be facing.


I see your point.

Wish I could just C&DE on the original hard drive after the upgrade then use a 40 or 80GB drive has the backup drive.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

Last night it hit me, I'm looking to upgrade 2 premieres... 

If I upgrade 1 with the new TB drive. I can then us that premieres drive when done, to upgrade the other series4 with the 1 TB from the series3. Then use the 652160 TBK on the 320 GB drive from the second premiere to install in to the series3, which will give my 1 original Premiere drive.

To make it go faster,I do have a USB to SATA adapter (Laptop) for the Series 3 upgrade/downsize, along with the desktop to do the 2nd Premiere upgrade.


----------



## unitron

Leon WIlkinson said:


> Last night it hit me, I'm looking to upgrade 2 premieres...
> 
> If I upgrade 1 with the new TB drive. I can then us that premieres drive when done, to upgrade the other series4 with the 1 TB from the series3. Then use the 652160 TBK on the 320 GB drive from the second premiere to install in to the series3, which will give my 1 original Premiere drive.
> 
> To make it go faster,I do have a USB to SATA adapter (Laptop) for the Series 3 upgrade/downsize, along with the desktop to do the 2nd Premiere upgrade.


I still suggest setting aside the original drive of whichever TiVo(s) you're going to upgrade and purchase extra drives as needed.

That way you have an instant troubleshooting tool.

But I wish you success however you approach the project.


----------



## muerte33

I thought I would throw in a thank-you to all the JMFS and WINMFS developers/supporters. These instructions worked great.
My Tivo HD drive died, so I could not back it up and restore it, but I had done an upgrade to another Tivo HD in early March, so I used that old 160gb drive to restore via JMFS. I then used the WINMFS to supersize, and now I have over 311 hours of HD using a WD20EARS drive. I never could adjust the acoustics on it, but it is so quiet, it does not matter. The idle setting change was very easy using that WD utility.

One thing to remember for people that restore another Tivo backup is you need to go through the complete erase/delete (make it like a new "out of the box" Tivo).
I never could get the Tivo Service number to show up until I did a complete erase.
It showed up with all zeros instead of my real Service number (a lifetime subscription).
I even tried forcing updates and rebooting.
It says on the screen it could take up to an hour, but I watched it for 2+ hours, and then went to sleep. The next day it was ready for guided setup.
I then had to deal with Comcast and the cable cards (thanks for that Comcast cable card hotline# 877-405-2298 by the way). It only took two twenty minute sessions for them to get all my paid channels back! They are getting much better at this!
I then had to put all my season passes back.
It would be nice if Tivo had a way to backup the old Tivo HD season pass settings to our account. I know KMTTG has some good stuff for the Tivo Premier and Elite, but there is not much for the Tivo HD. I guess we will never see any features added, like Xfinity on demand. I went ahead and ordered a Tivo Elite for $390 from Weeknees (off Amazon) just for this purpose. I hope all goes well in the San Francisco Bay area with this On Demand testing, because this is the feature I have been waiting for!

Thanks Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## lpwcomp

muerte33 said:


> It would be nice if Tivo had a way to backup the old Tivo HD season pass settings to our account. I know KMTTG has some good stuff for the Tivo Premier and Elite, but there is not much for the Tivo HD.


Have you looked at the Season Pass Manager at tivo.com?


----------



## muerte33

lpwcomp said:


> Have you looked at the Season Pass Manager at tivo.com?


I saw that early on when it first came out, but I still don't think it allows you to save all your season passes to a restorable "file".
You can dump them from one tivo to another.
If they made it to where it was backed up periodically (like when you connect to do your program update), that would be great.
Either way, I think I have them all entered back in, either as a season pass, or a wish list (because the program has no current shows scheduled).


----------



## audiodane

Hello again.. I thought I'd try and re-phrase my questions in hopes to get a more clear answer:


What is a swap partition used for?
Why is a larger swap partition desirable?
If Tivo themselves cannot enlarge a swap partition, then why is it recommended to expand the swap partition when upgrading drives?
 If going down the ready-to-go drive route (like "DVR_DUDE" on ebay), are there any particular questions that I should definitely ask (e.g. partition structure, etc) before purchasing? I figure if they warantee it long enough for me to boot my Tivo, I'm good. Unless someone foresees other realms of possibility that I might want to protect myself against?

thanks so much,
..dane


----------



## lessd

audiodane said:


> Hello again.. I thought I'd try and re-phrase my questions in hopes to get a more clear answer:
> 
> 
> What is a swap partition used for?
> Why is a larger swap partition desirable?
> If Tivo themselves cannot enlarge a swap partition, then why is it recommended to expand the swap partition when upgrading drives?
> If going down the ready-to-go drive route (like "DVR_DUDE" on ebay), are there any particular questions that I should definitely ask (e.g. partition structure, etc) before purchasing? I figure if they warantee it long enough for me to boot my Tivo, I'm good. Unless someone foresees other realms of possibility that I might want to protect myself against?
> 
> thanks so much,
> ..dane


Forget the swap partition, it ok at the 128Mb, if you use DVR_DUDE, just purchase from that person as they have a good reputation and you will have no problems, one person that had a problem with this purchase was giver a replacement drive and DVR_DUDE paid shipping both ways, can't ask for much more.
If you want to do this yourself just use the JMFS software, works great!!

Your over analyzing this too much.


----------



## Soapm

Some people feel a larger swap partition is like adding more memory and a larger buffer for live recording. I'm with lessd and think my Tivo works just fine with the stock swap partition. I've increased it with some of my installs but never saw any difference that I remembered.


----------



## audiodane

lessd said:


> Forget the swap partition, it ok at the 128Mb, if you use DVR_DUDE, just purchase from that person as they have a good reputation and you will have no problems, one person that had a problem with this purchase was giver a replacement drive and DVR_DUDE paid shipping both ways, can't ask for much more.
> If you want to do this yourself just use the JMFS software, works great!!
> 
> *Your over analyzing this too much*.


haha, tru'dat. It's been a few years since I've done an upgrade, and I've never heard of JMFS before a few weeks ago, and was trying to catch myself up. Mainly I didn't want to buy a ready-to-go drive and have to go back in at some future point and redo it manually anyway, is the *only* reason I was asking the questions that I did. The answers given are music to my ears. Thank you.



Soapm said:


> Some people feel a larger swap partition is like adding more memory and a larger buffer for live recording. I'm with lessd and think my Tivo works just fine with the stock swap partition. I've increased it with some of my installs but never saw any difference that I remembered.


Awesome. Exactly the type of information I was looking for. I figured that if Tivo themselves needed more swap space, it would have been done already and/or automatically (and future hardware may very do so).

Thanks to you both for quick answers.

..dane


----------



## audiodane

I ended up having some time off when my wife had knee surgery, so I got a bare drive and followed the instructions from this thread and successfully got it to 2TB. Thanks everyone!

Oddly, I cannot seem to get it to see my clear qam digital channels 901-905 (knology, huntsville, al). I run guided setup and select "use digital lineup, will get cablecards later" and the lineup is correct, but nothing comes through 901-905. My S3 in the family room and my dad's TivoHD both accomplished the desired effect just from doing that very task- instructing the tivo to use the digital lineup. All the OTHER digital channels are on the xx-yyy style channels and I would in fact need a CC to map them properly. But 901-905 are actually mapped to 901-905, however I cannot see them. The tivo says "searching for singnal on cable in." 

Interestingly, when I go to settings->channels->signal strength, tivo says that signal strength is unavailable because I have no digital channels in my lineup.  I just told it to use the digital lineup-- AND I can see the guide data for those channels! 

..dane


----------



## lessd

audiodane said:


> I ended up having some time off when my wife had knee surgery, so I got a bare drive and followed the instructions from this thread and successfully got it to 2TB. Thanks everyone!
> 
> Oddly, I cannot seem to get it to see my clear qam digital channels 901-905 (knology, huntsville, al). I run guided setup and select "use digital lineup, will get cablecards later" and the lineup is correct, but nothing comes through 901-905. My S3 in the family room and my dad's TivoHD both accomplished the desired effect just from doing that very task- instructing the tivo to use the digital lineup. All the OTHER digital channels are on the xx-yyy style channels and I would in fact need a CC to map them properly. But 901-905 are actually mapped to 901-905, however I cannot see them. The tivo says "searching for singnal on cable in."
> 
> Interestingly, when I go to settings->channels->signal strength, tivo says that signal strength is unavailable because I have no digital channels in my lineup.  I just told it to use the digital lineup-- AND I can see the guide data for those channels!
> 
> ..dane


When you tell TiVo you will use a cable card later you will not get any digital channels (until you install the cable card), if you tell TiVo that you are not going to use a cable card than scan for digital channels you will get the clear digital channels, but the numbers will not necessarily be the same as your cable co.s number, and for sure each digital channel will be in the format XXXX.YYY, for me, as example, NBC is 30.1, with a cable card the channel is 232.


----------



## audiodane

lessd said:


> When you tell TiVo you will use a cable card later you will not get any digital channels (until you install the cable card), if you tell TiVo that you are not going to use a cable card than scan for digital channels you will get the clear digital channels, but the numbers will not necessarily be the same as your cable co.s number, and for sure each digital channel will be in the format XXXX.YYY, for me, as example, NBC is 30.1, with a cable card the channel is 232.


My S3 had attempted to have a cablecard for a month previously but they wanted waaaay too much money, so I took it out and re-ran guided setup. My dad's tivoHD however, never once had a single cablecard installed, which is how I know the concept works properly. Both with my S3 and my dad's TivoHD, we told our Tivo to use the digital lineup, and could receive the 901-905 clear-qam channels straightaway (and still can to this day). All the OTHER digital channels, you're right, xx-yyy map to zzz. Within Knology here in town, however, 901-905 are in fact mapped as 901-905.

Over the weekend I will probably do an image of my dad's TivoHD HDD (we're in the same zip code and with the same cable provider) and see if that is a workable solution for me. A bit more work, but if it works, it's worth it. I'm not looking for free digital cable. I'm just looking to get the free digital channels that I'm SUPPOSED to get (nbc, cbs, etc) even with my analog cable package.

..dane


----------



## lessd

audiodane said:


> My S3 had attempted to have a cablecard for a month previously but they wanted waaaay too much money, so I took it out and re-ran guided setup. My dad's tivoHD however, never once had a single cablecard installed, which is how I know the concept works properly. Both with my S3 and my dad's TivoHD, we told our Tivo to use the digital lineup, and could receive the 901-905 clear-qam channels straightaway (and still can to this day). All the OTHER digital channels, you're right, xx-yyy map to zzz. Within Knology here in town, however, 901-905 are in fact mapped as 901-905.
> 
> Over the weekend I will probably do an image of my dad's TivoHD HDD (we're in the same zip code and with the same cable provider) and see if that is a workable solution for me. A bit more work, but if it works, it's worth it. I'm not looking for free digital cable. I'm just looking to get the free digital channels that I'm SUPPOSED to get (nbc, cbs, etc) even with my analog cable package.
> 
> ..dane


If the channels are numbers without a .xxx after the number for all cable systems I have heard of that would be an analog channel, but then i not an expert on this nations cable systems, if somebody knows of clear QAM-HD channels with whole numbers, let us know.
You can't move a drive from one TiVo to another without doing a clear and delete all so what your trying to do with your dads TiVo will not help you.


----------



## audiodane

lessd said:


> If the channels are numbers without a .xxx after the number for all cable systems I have heard of that would be an analog channel, but then i not an expert on this nations cable systems, if somebody knows of clear QAM-HD channels with whole numbers, let us know.


Maybe they are analog? I don't know ALL the details of how all this stuff works. I just know that even my TV finds the channels 901-905 on a Channel Scan, and they're 720p/1080i/whatever the show is broadcast in OTA.....



lessd said:


> You can't move a drive from one TiVo to another without doing a clear and delete all so what your trying to do with your dads TiVo will not help you.


Really? Can you tell me more about that? Why not? They're both TivoHD's- how else to people share Tivo images? He's in the same zip code and the same cable provider- he might as well have his tivo in my house already! It just has a different mac address and different account. Is that the hiccup? What will happen if I try to bit-copy his drive to mine and boot mine with a bit-copy of his drive?

I was planning on doing that this coming Saturday. i would like to know more details on what to expect. I certainly don't want to waste my time, but "if there's a chance," then it seems to be one of my only ones at this point.

thanks!
..dane


----------



## lessd

audiodane said:


> Really? Can you tell me more about that? Why not? They're both TivoHD's- how else to people share Tivo images? He's in the same zip code and the same cable provider- he might as well have his tivo in my house already! It just has a different mac address and different account. Is that the hiccup? What will happen if I try to bit-copy his drive to mine and boot mine with a bit-copy of his drive?
> 
> I was planning on doing that this coming Saturday. i would like to know more details on what to expect. I certainly don't want to waste my time, but "if there's a chance," then it seems to be one of my only ones at this point.
> 
> thanks!
> ..dane


Each TiVo has a code based on the TSN so that one can't move drives from one TiVo to another and watch any program recorded on the other TiVo. This has been true from the start of TiVo so the networks did not take TiVo to court for copyright problems (there may have been other reasons for this type of design). When one moves a TiVo drive one must do a clear and delete all for the drive to work in the new TiVo. You will waste your time changing drives, you could bring your TiVo to your dad home and try to get the channels on your TiVo, there may be some difference in the cable xmission from your home to your dad home even if you are in the same zip.

You can get software to get programs off your TiVo to your computer, than you could do what you wanted with that program.


----------



## Guy Kuo

Going from an 160 gb drive directly to 2TB via jmfs doing the expansion creates a 1.7 tb partition. Do we now have evidence that the current TiVo 11.0K software deals with such larger partitions?

If so, why no simply let winMFS create a big partition while restoring from a truncated backup? You still end up with a 1.7 TB partition and the TiVo reports 318 hours of capacity.

However, has anyone filled their 2TB TiVoHD's past the 1 TB size "limit" and still been stable?

If not, then the intermediate 1TB winMFS then 2TB jmfs route would seem the way to avoid having partitions larger than the feared 1TB limit that was in the TiVo kernel.

"... signed int sector numbers in the tivo ide-disk.c driver that limits partition sizes to 1TiB"

Early success reports are expected, but how is everyone doing after their drives are full?


----------



## unitron

Guy Kuo said:


> Going from an 160 gb drive directly to 2TB via jmfs doing the expansion creates a 1.7 tb partition. Do we now have evidence that the current TiVo 11.0K software deals with such larger partitions?
> 
> If so, why no simply let winMFS create a big partition while restoring from a truncated backup? You still end up with a 1.7 TB partition and the TiVo reports 318 hours of capacity.
> 
> However, has anyone filled their 2TB TiVoHD's past the 1 TB size "limit" and still been stable?
> 
> If not, then the intermediate 1TB winMFS then 2TB jmfs route would seem the way to avoid having partitions larger than the feared 1TB limit that was in the TiVo kernel.
> 
> "... signed int sector numbers in the tivo ide-disk.c driver that limits partition sizes to 1TiB"
> 
> Early success reports are expected, but how is everyone doing after their drives are full?


All I know is that using a 1TB drive as a middleman is working in my S3 HD just fine.

The trick, of course, is having a 1TB drive on hand that you can temporarily use.

I ran across somebody else's posts that suggested creating a virtual hard drive (obviously on a larger hard drive, I would assume) to serve as middleman, but that's beyond my current knowledge and abilities.


----------



## Guy Kuo

I'm following your technique right now..... waiting for the 1TB to 2TB jmfs copy to complete.

I think your method of avoiding a greater than 1 TB partition is the wisest choice, instead of that which is proposed in the first post of this thread.

Like I said, if that was actually safe, there would be no need for jmfs at all. You would simply let winMFS expand a truncated image and let it create the larger than 1 tb partition (plus associate app partition). 

The point is, I don't think that is stable once the TiVoHD fills that overly large partition. That is unless, the TiVo 11.OK software has an undiscovered fix for its device driver. The info available on the web is years out of date.

I don't have the patience to wait several weeks with a big 1.7 TB partition only to have my TiVOHD go unstable and overwrite recordings / crash.

Your 2 stage method is what I'm betting on.


----------



## steve614

JMFS was designed for the Premiere.
We got lucky in that it allowed a 2TB hard drive to be recognized in a TivoHD, otherwise we would be limited to 1.26TB (IIRC) using WinMFS.

I upgraded an original TivoHD hard drive as per the OP. My upgraded hard drive is full and I am not experiencing any problems.


----------



## Guy Kuo

The unique advantage of jmfs is that it can add a single partition when winmfs can only add pairs of partitions. winmfs's beta9_3f all by itself can restore a stock TivoHD truncated backup to fill a 2 TB drive and remain within the 16 partition limit. You simply answer no when it ask whether you want to limit the media partition size to 1 TB.

The problems with using winmfs by itself are....

1. The added media partition is well above the 1 tebibyte "limit" that the deep TiVo hackers have documented in the device driver. (Those guys even have a special patched kernel that fixes the limit. So, yes I believe there is/was such a limit)

jmfs expansion of a stock 160 GB (with the current 11.0K tivo software) shares the big partition problem. jmfs creates a single, huge media partition if one uses it with an original 160 GB TiVoHD drive. So, in this regard one could use either tool to go to directly to a 2 TB drive because both create a oversized media partition.

If the signed 32 bit integer limit still exists in the 11.0K kernel's disc device driver, then after several weeks of recording normally, the system could become unstable. However, the most recent info I could find regarding the existence of this 1TB partition limit is very old. TiVo MAY have fixed this limit in the current kernel. That would be fantastic and make both winmfs and jmfs suitable for creating a 2 TB drive.

Your reporting a stable machine after it fills suggests that this might have been fixed. We just don't have corroboration from the hackers that indeed the driver has been fixed. Instead, I find many many references to the limit being inherently in the 11.0C and earlier kernels.

Of concern if this was NOT fixed in the TiVO kernel, it would take several weeks of operation before later recordings begin overwriting the content of earlier recordings. The machine may or may not crash. One might get silently corruption of earlier recordings. Titles would look okay in the Now Playing list, but during playback the overwritten content would give you a nasty surprise.

Failure due to this issue would take a LONG time to surface. Things could seem ok for a long time before instability and media corruption surface.

2. winmfs may leave an extra "apple free" partition at the end that the Tivo software would interpret as a problem external drive that needs to be removed. Adjusting the swap size during winmfs restore may allow one to avoid this extra space.

If one uses winmfs to restore to an intermedia 1 TB drive with swap set to a size that avoids creating the extra 16 "apple free" partition, the resultant 1 TB drive would have 15 partition all below 1 TB. Use of jmfs going from that 1 TB drive to a 2 TB drive would add a single media partition 16 that is also below the 1 TB limit.

A swap size of 1024 during winmfs restore let me avoid the "apple free" partition and create such an intermediate 1 TB drive for use with jmfs. The result gives you a 2 TB TiVoHD drive that does not violate the 1 TB partition limit.

Since we do not have definitive hacker confirmation that TiVo's own kernel has implemented a fix for the former 1 TB partition size limit, this two stage, method using an intermediate 1 TB drive is the most conservative route. Once can avoid testing the issue with valuable recordings, by making sure by adding two sub 1TB media partitions instead of letting jmfs or winmfs create a single huge partition.

One very important aspect of jmfs is that it adds a SINGLE partition. So, it can be used AFTER winfms has created the 15 partition 1TB source drive. jmfs adds one sub TB size partition to create a 2TB drive from a 16 partition winmfs created 1TB drive. You can't use winmfs twice in a row because it would add a pair and exceed the 16 partition limit.

In summary, if the 1 TB partition size limit has been lifted by TiVo fixing their device driver in software 11.0K, then both winmfs or jmfs create a 2 TB drive that TiVO happily reports as a 318 hours HD capacity. We just don't have solid stability evidence from the hackers.

If the limit still exists, then only Unitron's, two stage method of using winMFS to do an expansion to an intermediate 1 TB drive then further expanding via jmfs will create a 2TB drive that respects that limit.

I *suspect* that TiVo has silently fixed their driver since we don't hear of machines having problems after months of operation. (Also seems it was fixed on the Premiere since the non XL jmfs expanded machine would also risk the greater than 1 TB partition issue)

I hate to lose recordings so I'm staying under that limit with my TiVoHD and Premieres.


----------



## Guy Kuo

Post Unitron's 2 stage method (winMFS restore to 1 TB drive then jmfs 1TB to 2 TB drive)


I get a 318HD capacity machine with the following partition table.

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 781.6G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)


All the media partitions are below 1TB in size. Hurrah!


----------



## unitron

Guy Kuo said:


> Post Unitron's 2 stage method (winMFS restore to 1 TB drive then jmfs 1TB to 2 TB drive)
> 
> I get a 318HD capacity machine with the following partition table.
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 781.6G)
> 16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)
> 
> All the media partitions are below 1TB in size. Hurrah!


Lookin' good!


----------



## sbourgeo

This is a very interesting development, I haven't been around here in a while it appears. 

About 4 years ago I upgraded my 160 GB drive to a 1 TB WD10EVCS drive using WinMFS 9.3b giving me 157 HD hours. While my TiVo has been working fine I'll have to pull my drive when I get a chance and look at the partition table to see if a 2 TB upgrade is do-able with JMFS. It looks like I'd be stuck with the stock swap partition though if I want to keep my recordings...


----------



## unitron

sbourgeo said:


> This is a very interesting development, I haven't been around here in a while it appears.
> 
> About 4 years ago I upgraded my 160 GB drive to a 1 TB WD10EVCS drive using WinMFS 9.3b giving me 157 HD hours. While my TiVo has been working fine I'll have to pull my drive when I get a chance and look at the partition table to see if a 2 TB upgrade is do-able with JMFS. It looks like I'd be stuck with the stock swap partition though if I want to keep my recordings...


I can't absolutely swear that a larger swap partition is necessary, I just figure that it's cheap insurance.

If you don't have an Apple Free Partition on the end of that 1TB, you should be able to use jmfs to copy to a 2TB and expand.

If you did the upgrade with WinMFS, you probably don't, if you did it with MFS Live, you might.

If you do, take the size of the Apple Free Partion and add that to the size of the swap partition you do have.

Write it down.

Then take the MFS Live cd and use

dd_rescue

to copy the 1TB to the 2TB.

Don't try to look at the 2TB with

pdisk

or anything else, like mfsinfo in WinMFS, afterwards.

You don't want to risk anythat might re-write the partition map.

Then use WinMFS to copy the 2TB to the 1TB and specify the written down total of swap + Apple Free as the size of the swap to go onto the 1TB.

That should fill all of the 1TB while preserving all of your recordings.

(If you screw up, you can always use

dd_rescue

to copy the 2TB back to the 1TB and make it just like it was, since the 2TB will still have the 1TB's partition map)

Then test the new, full, with slightly larger swap, 1TB in the TiVo to make sure it's alright.

Then use jmfs to copy the 1TB to the 2TB and expand.

Of course, use TiVo Desktop or something to copy off as many of your recordings as you can before doing any of that just as extra insurance.

Wouldn't hurt to have an extra drive just for Desktop to copy recordings to, both before and after the upgrade.

Well, wouldn't hurt except for the paying today's drive prices, that is.


----------



## sbourgeo

unitron said:


> I can't absolutely swear that a larger swap partition is necessary, I just figure that it's cheap insurance.
> 
> If you don't have an Apple Free Partition on the end of that 1TB, you should be able to use jmfs to copy to a 2TB and expand.
> 
> If you did the upgrade with WinMFS, you probably don't, if you did it with MFS Live, you might.


Interesting approach... I don't know if the increased swap makes a difference either, but it is cheap insurance. Not sure how I feel about nuking the 1 TB drive as the interim step though since I'm so cautious. 

It looks like I have a nearly identical partition layout as BigJon according to WinMFS:



Code:


Mfsinfo (Drive 6)

Boot Page
	Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
	Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
	Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
	state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
	map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
	next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
	zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=882752fe logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
	map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
	next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
	zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
	free=102400 checksum=92f661df logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
	map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
	next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
	zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
	free=55496 checksum=cdd97a86 logstamp=16881257 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
	map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
	next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
	zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=ac62bc3e logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
	map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
	next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
	zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
	free=81920 checksum=7b79cc8e logstamp=16881190 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
	map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
	next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
	zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
	free=295856 checksum=4ed151cb logstamp=16881066 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
	map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
	next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
	zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
	free=3194880 checksum=ca7a390e logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      [email protected] ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           [email protected]        (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected] (   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         [email protected] ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908	  0 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

So assuming that I'm good to go with 15 partitions, what are the thoughts on the WD20EURS AV-GP drive for DVR applications? I've had great luck with my WD10EVDS, so that would seem to be the logical choice.


----------



## unitron

sbourgeo said:


> Interesting approach... I don't know if the increased swap makes a difference either, but it is cheap insurance. Not sure how I feel about nuking the 1 TB drive as the interim step though since I'm so cautious.
> 
> It looks like I have a nearly identical partition layout as BigJon according to WinMFS:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Mfsinfo (Drive 6)
> 
> Boot Page
> Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
> Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
> Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4
> 
> MFS Super Header
> state=0 magic=ebbafeed
> devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
> zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272
> 
> Zone Maps
> Z0:	type=0
> map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
> next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
> zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=882752fe logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
> Z1:	type=2
> map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
> next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
> zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
> free=102400 checksum=92f661df logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=14
> Z2:	type=1
> map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
> next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
> zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
> free=55496 checksum=cdd97a86 logstamp=16881257 num_bitmap=17
> Z3:	type=0
> map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
> next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
> zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=ac62bc3e logstamp=16587417 num_bitmap=1
> Z4:	type=2
> map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
> next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
> zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
> free=81920 checksum=7b79cc8e logstamp=16881190 num_bitmap=15
> Z5:	type=1
> map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
> next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
> zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
> free=295856 checksum=4ed151cb logstamp=16881066 num_bitmap=17
> Z6:	type=2
> map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
> next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
> zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
> free=3194880 checksum=ca7a390e logstamp=16881240 num_bitmap=18
> 
> Partition Maps
> #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
> 1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
> 2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
> 4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
> 7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8                  Swap Linux swap                      [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] (  65.6G)
> 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           [email protected]        (  82.0G)
> 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected] (   1.0M)
> 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         [email protected] ( 782.5G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908	  0 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
> 
> So assuming that I'm good to go with 15 partitions, what are the thoughts on the WD20EURS AV-GP drive for DVR applications? I've had great luck with my WD10EVDS, so that would seem to be the logical choice.


Looks like you don't have any slack at the end of the drive, so unless you can find a slightly larger than 1TB drive (which I doubt exist), or create a virtual one on a bigger drive, it looks like you can't save your recordings *and* increase swap size, go just take that 2TB WD and use jmfs to copy the 1TB to it and expand, and it should work out fine.


----------



## sbourgeo

unitron said:


> Looks like you don't have any slack at the end of the drive, so unless you can find a slightly larger than 1TB drive (which I doubt exist), or create a virtual one on a bigger drive, it looks like you can't save your recordings *and* increase swap size, go just take that 2TB WD and use jmfs to copy the 1TB to it and expand, and it should work out fine.


I remember people not being able to recover from a GSOD due to small swap space on a larger than stock drive in the old days, so having additional swap isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Although losing shows wouldn't be good (happened to me twice on my s1 standalone), I could live with with it if the existing swap space on a 2 TB drive caused problems as long as I could restore the truncated backup I have stashed away and get everything up and running.

Has anyone cracked open a TiVo Premiere XL4? I believe they come with a 2 TB drive, so it would be interesting to see what their partition layout/sizes look like...


----------



## unitron

sbourgeo said:


> I remember people not being able to recover from a GSOD due to small swap space on a larger than stock drive in the old days, so having additional swap isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Although losing shows wouldn't be good (happened to me twice on my s1 standalone), I could live with with it if the existing swap space on a 2 TB drive caused problems as long as I could restore the truncated backup I have stashed away and get everything up and running.
> 
> Has anyone cracked open a TiVo Premiere XL4? I believe they come with a 2 TB drive, so it would be interesting to see what their partition layout/sizes look like...


Some people who took a look at a Premiere drive with WinMFS and mfsinfo seemed to have borked their drive, so I recommend only

pdisk

from the MFS Live cd to look at an S4 partition map, and don't run

mfsinfo

on it at all.


----------



## sbourgeo

My 1 TB -> 2 TB upgrade appears to have just completed successfully. Very nice. :up:

Some datapoints:


The 2 TB WD20EURS drive I used (manufacture date 4/29/12) came with the "IDLE3 timer" disabled according to WDIDLE3 utility v1.05 and had a default AAM setting of 128 according to hdparm utility on the JMFS iso.
The Extended Test with the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows v5.19 utility took about 6 hours to run on a 5 year old Dell XPS 410.
I booted the JMFS iso from a USB flash drive created with the UNetbootin utility, which worked great and freed up the additional SATA data and power cables from my DVD drive for the disk-to-disk copy.
The JMFS 1 TB to 2 TB disk-to-disk copy took about 7 hours to complete (avg throughput 40,470 kB/s).
JMFS reported 143 HD hours before the expansion and 288 HD hours after the expansion. On the TiVo, the numbers were 157 HD/1367 SD with the 1 TB drive and 318 HD/2777 SD with the 2 TB drive.
I checked my power supply for bulging capacitors while I had the case open and everything looked good.


----------



## Guy Kuo

Congrats. You look good to go.

I had to replace 2 of the 1,000 mfd 10 v caps in mine. They were bulging.


----------



## sbourgeo

Guy Kuo said:


> Congrats. You look good to go.
> 
> I had to replace 2 of the 1,000 mfd 10 v caps in mine. They were bulging.


With my soldering skills, lets hope so.  BTW, glad to see you're still around here every once in a while. :up:


----------



## edtude

Ok I tried my upgrade with mixed success and ultimate failure. Hopefully someone can tell me how to recover.

With a 2 TB WD20EURS I removed my 160GB hard drive from my Tivo HD and put the two drives in my desktop and booted up with JMFS. Everything went great here, copied from my original to my new drive took an hour and forty five minutes. I *DID NOT* expand at this time, so here was my first mistake. I exited JMFS and removed my original Tivo disk and booted my desktop with my normal drive and ran Winmfs. Picked my new Tivo drive and Supersized with no issues. Installed my new Tivo drive in the Tivo it booted up fine and I was watching TV of course I had no more then my original limited recording space.

So I went back to the beginning of this thread and found that I was supposed to expand using JMFS. So I figured I would go backwards meaning I removed the new drive from my Tivo, installed in desktop ran WinMFS and turned off Supersize. Booted in to JMFS and selected Expand, it wuickly came back and told me I had 288 hours of recording space. I then rebooted into Windows to gain that extra 30 hours of recording space with WinMFS. It acknowledged Supersize turning on.

I then installed the new drive into the Tivo and I get the Powering Up screen for a few seconds and then everything goes grey for at least 10 minutes which is longer then it has ever taken me to reboot.

So before screwing the pooch any further I reinstalled my old drive and it booted up fine and my wife is happy. I am not of course. How do I reover my new drive? Do I format it and start over? Suggestions....

Thanks


----------



## sbourgeo

It's not clear what state your new drive is in. I would start from the beginning and follow the directions in the first post of this thread.


----------



## edtude

Got my upgraded drive to work. Needed to run WDidle3


----------



## Cap'n Preshoot

I see a lot of discussion about folks using various drives for expansion, but no mention (or none that I noticed) about the merits of using drives specifically designed for video, i.e., the EURS drives with A/V rating.

As I understand it, the A/V rated drives basically ignore any errors and keep recording on the fly. Ergo you might experience a momentary blip in a recording but not the big gap you might otherwise experience if the drive tried to perform error recovery.

Any thoughts/comments?


----------



## lessd

Cap'n Preshoot said:


> I see a lot of discussion about folks using various drives for expansion, but no mention (or none that I noticed) about the merits of using drives specifically designed for video, i.e., the EURS drives with A/V rating.
> 
> As I understand it, the A/V rated drives basically ignore any errors and keep recording on the fly. Ergo you might experience a momentary blip in a recording but not the big gap you might otherwise experience if the drive tried to perform error recovery.
> 
> Any thoughts/comments?


IMHO; With today's drives I don't think there is any problem with blips that I have noticed, I think that AV drives are just for advertising and getting a little more money. Somewhat like putting 93 octane gas when you car calls for 87 octane, if it makes you feel better put 93 in you car and put an AV drive into your TiVo. (the OEM WD drives TiVo uses are not rated as AV drives)


----------



## tlc

Guy Kuo said:


> The unique advantage of jmfs is that it can add a single partition when winmfs can only add pairs of partitions.
> 
> ....
> 
> 1. The added media partition is well above the 1 tebibyte "limit" that the deep TiVo hackers have documented in the device driver. (Those guys even have a special patched kernel that fixes the limit. So, yes I believe there is/was such a limit)
> 
> *jmfs expansion of a stock 160 GB (with the current 11.0K tivo software) shares the big partition problem.* jmfs creates a single, huge media partition if one uses it with an original 160 GB TiVoHD drive. So, in this regard one could use either tool to go to directly to a 2 TB drive because both create a oversized media partition.
> 
> If the signed 32 bit integer limit still exists in the 11.0K kernel's disc device driver, then after several weeks of recording normally, the system could become unstable. However, the most recent info I could find regarding the existence of this 1TB partition limit is very old. TiVo MAY have fixed this limit in the current kernel. That would be fantastic and make both winmfs and jmfs suitable for creating a 2 TB drive.


This is an interesting point. The MFS limits were not random limits of the tools. They were due to limits in the Tivo kernel. Have we had enough users of JMFS-created 2TB Tivo HDs to know that it's solid solid long term, even when starting from an original disk?



Guy Kuo said:


> ...
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 781.6G)
> 16 MFS MFS media region 3 [email protected]( 931.5G)
> 
> All the media partitions are below 1TB in size. Hurrah!


Does anyone know the _purpose_ of the App partition added by WinMFS/MFS Live (14 in the above example)? It's a token size compared to the other "application" regions, and if you start with JMFS you won't have it. So what was the point? Probably something historical with S1s or S2s.

Unlike JMFS, the MFS tools already do partition-by-partition copies and supports changing the swap region. I peeked at the source for MFS Live's "restore". It seems _relatively_ straightforward to mod it to

not create a 3rd App region
not create an Apple_Free region,
create _1 or 2_ up-to-1TB media regions (for starting with original or expanded disks), and
(maybe) address AF alignment issues.

Have I missed something?

No, I'm not volunteering. My day job keeps me plenty busy. And I don't understand things like _why_ that third App region was added.


----------



## steve614

tlc said:


> Have we had enough users of JMFS-created 2TB Tivo HDs to know that it's solid solid long term, even when starting from an original disk?


I think I've read far more success posts than I have failure posts, but I'm not going to do the research to back up my answer. Maybe we need a poll. 

All I can say for sure is that my JMFS + WinMFS upgraded 2TB drive copied from the original 160GB drive is working flawlessly going on 1 year. Hard drive is full (if you count the RD folder).
Caveat: I had the original 160GB Tivo drive on the shelf after upgrading with a 1TB Weaknees drive. I made sure to re-install the original hard drive in the Tivo and let it get the latest software before I used it to do the 2TB upgrade with JMFS/WinMFS.


----------



## Tivoitis

Cap'n Preshoot said:


> I see a lot of discussion about folks using various drives for expansion, but no mention (or none that I noticed) about the merits of using drives specifically designed for video, i.e., the EURS drives with A/V rating.
> 
> As I understand it, the A/V rated drives basically ignore any errors and keep recording on the fly. Ergo you might experience a momentary blip in a recording but not the big gap you might otherwise experience if the drive tried to perform error recovery.
> 
> Any thoughts/comments?


I noted some tiny power consumption benefit, but not so sure about any other benefit, particularly anything about "ignoring any errors". Have any links for this, particularly a demo of that shows the difference?



tlc said:


> This is an interesting point. The MFS limits were not random limits of the tools. They were due to limits in the Tivo kernel. Have we had enough users of JMFS-created 2TB Tivo HDs to know that it's solid solid long term, even when starting from an original disk?


I started this thread and haven't had any issues with a 1.7TB partition:


Code:


Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      [email protected] ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           [email protected]        (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS MFS media region 3          [email protected] (   1.7T)

I made sure to fill up the drive during my first week, taping shows all day long, until I was convinced that there was no issue with any of my existing shows and that the deletes fell off properly. I've been running with 2TB drives in my Tivo HD's since 12/2010.


----------



## jking777

Just wanted to throw in another report of success. I had a WD 750GB AV-GP drive that I had setup using WinMFS 4 years ago. Recently I started experiencing random reboots and very sluggish performance, so I bought a WD20EURS to replace the 750GB drive.

This time I used jmfs. I started the copy operation around bed time. When I checked it the next morning jmfs reported that it had copied all the data, minus 4KB of errors. Next I expanded the new drive, but I did not supersize. Then just to be safe I checked the partitions. The partitions looked good, so I installed the new drive and fired it up. Everything works as it should - the Tivo HD sees all the space, and performance is back to normal.

Thanks, comer!


----------



## caroth

Hi!

I have a few questions I was hoping someone could answer...

First of all, here is what I did:



Took stock 160GB drive (which had been out of the Tivo for a long time), put it back into the Tivo, let it update the firmare (to 11.0k)


Copied the drive to a single internal 2TB drive using JMFS


Expanded the 2TB drive with JMFS to get the full size

I did NOT supersize with JMFS (nor WinMFS) and my recording hours show 287 hours.

I was able to boot, connect to the Tivo Service and download data

I saw accurate data in the Live TV overlay guide and was able to successfully record HD shows

I am unable to find any shows through the standard Tivo program search. When I checked my system information, it shows that while my guide data is current, neither garbage collection nor indexing has run since the stock Tivo drive was pulled out ages ago.

Will indexing and GC run eventually or do I have a show stopper here? I went in and updated the channel list which some people said would trigger GC. I also unplugged the network cable from the Tivo to see if it just needs to "catch up" somehow (it successfully connected to the Tivo service maybe three times before I pulled it). And of course I rebooted.

I am also wondering about the swap partition size as I've seen several posts recommending a 2GB swap partition for a 2TB Tivo drive. What size swap partition does JMFS create by default? Do I need to change it somehow (make it larger) or is the default sufficient for my 2TB drive?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

caroth said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have a few questions I was hoping someone could answer...
> 
> First of all, here is what I did:
> 
> 
> 
> Took stock 160GB drive (which had been out of the Tivo for a long time), put it back into the Tivo, let it update the firmare (to 11.something j)
> 
> 
> Copied the drive to a single internal 2TB drive using JMFS
> 
> 
> Expanded the 2TB drive with JMFS to get the full size
> 
> I did NOT supersize with JMFS (nor WinMFS) and my recording hours show 287 hours.
> 
> I was able to boot, connect to the Tivo Service and download data
> 
> I saw accurate data in the Live TV overlay guide and was able to successfully record HD shows
> 
> I am unable to find any shows through the standard Tivo program search. When I checked my system information, it shows that while my guide data is current, neither garbage collection nor indexing has run since the stock Tivo drive was pulled out ages ago.
> 
> Will indexing and GC run eventually or do I have a show stopper here? I went in and updated the channel list which some people said would trigger GC. I also unplugged the network cable from the Tivo to see if it just needs to "catch up" somehow (it successfully connected to the Tivo service maybe three times before I pulled it). And of course I rebooted.
> 
> I am also wondering about the swap partition size as I've seen several posts recommending a 2GB swap partition for a 2TB Tivo drive. What size swap partition does JMFS create by default? Do I need to change it somehow (make it larger) or is the default sufficient for my 2TB drive?
> 
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


jmfs does not create a swap partition, it copies the one on the source drive, whatever size it is, just as it copies all of the other partitions on the source drive, whatever size they are.

If there's any space left on the target drive after that, it can create a single MFS partition to fill that space.

A 1GB swap on a 2TB drive should be sufficient. That's only about 15 minutes worth of video, I consider it cheap insurance.

You say the stock 160GB drive had been out of the TiVo for a long time.

What was in the TiVo instead? Did it go bad?


----------



## caroth

unitron said:


> jmfs does not create a swap partition, it copies the one on the source drive, whatever size it is, just as it copies all of the other partitions on the source drive, whatever size they are.
> 
> If there's any space left on the target drive after that, it can create a single MFS partition to fill that space.
> 
> A 1GB swap on a 2TB drive should be sufficient. That's only about 15 minutes worth of video, I consider it cheap insurance.
> 
> You say the stock 160GB drive had been out of the TiVo for a long time.
> 
> What was in the TiVo instead? Did it go bad?


I think the 160GB drives came with a small swap partition (128MB?), which sounds like would be way too smal for a 2TB setup. Is there a way I can adjust the partition at this point? Maybe that's why I'm having the Indexing/GC issue. I'm a Linux novice, but have used Ubunty to resize Windows partitions before. Could I use that to make the data partition smaller and then the swap partition larger or is that going to screw up the Tivo to where I should use some other method?

I did have a 1TB internal/1TB external setup, which I did with WinMFS back in the day, never messed with any of the defaults, just copied and expanded. I did have an issue with GC not running sometimes and the Tivo needing to be rebooted because of the "out of program data" issue which I'm now thinking might have been because WinMFS only does a small (128MB I think) swap file as well. One of the drives went bad, which is why I'm going to the 2TB internal drive.


----------



## unitron

caroth said:


> I think the 160GB drives came with a small swap partition (128MB?), which sounds like would be way too smal for a 2TB setup. Is there a way I can adjust the partition at this point? Maybe that's why I'm having the Indexing/GC issue. I'm a Linux novice, but have used Ubunty to resize Windows partitions before. Could I use that to make the data partition smaller and then the swap partition larger or is that going to screw up the Tivo to where I should use some other method?
> 
> I did have a 1TB internal/1TB external setup, which I did with WinMFS back in the day, never messed with any of the defaults, just copied and expanded. I did have an issue with GC not running sometimes and the Tivo needing to be rebooted because of the "out of program data" issue which I'm now thinking might have been because WinMFS only does a small (128MB I think) swap file as well. One of the drives went bad, which is why I'm going to the 2TB internal drive.


Use whichever one of those 1TB drives is still good.

Use WinMFS.

See if it will let you make a copy from the 160 and specify a bigger swap partition size. (put 1000 or 1024 in the box).

If so, great.

If not, use WinMFS to make a backup from that 160 and then do a restore onto the 1TB drive and specify a 1GB swap size.

Then use mfsadd (in WinMFS) to fill the rest of the 1TB.

The copy or the restore should have given you 13 partitions (use mfsinfo to get a partition table) plus a 14th "Apple Free" partition.

mfsadd should turn that Apple Free partition into a 3rd MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, filling the 1TB with no space left over.

You can have a maximum of 16 partitions per drive on a TiVo drive.

What you do then is take the 1TB and use jmfs to copy it to the 2TB, and then to expand by creating a single 16th MFS media partition in the rest of the space.

The trick is not to have any extra space on that 1TB, because it will be seen as a 16th "Apple Free" partition, and jmfs, which only copies byte for byte, will copy it over as the 16th partition and proceed to expand by making a 17th partition. But you can only have 16 per drive, so the TiVo will think that 17th partition is an external drive that's screwed up and offer to divorce it for you, at the end of which process you'll be back to having a 2TB drive that's only got 1TB worth of TiVo partition space on it.


----------



## unitron

caroth said:


> I think the 160GB drives came with a small swap partition (128MB?), which sounds like would be way too smal for a 2TB setup. Is there a way I can adjust the partition at this point? Maybe that's why I'm having the Indexing/GC issue. I'm a Linux novice, but have used Ubunty to resize Windows partitions before. Could I use that to make the data partition smaller and then the swap partition larger or is that going to screw up the Tivo to where I should use some other method?
> 
> I did have a 1TB internal/1TB external setup, which I did with WinMFS back in the day, never messed with any of the defaults, just copied and expanded. I did have an issue with GC not running sometimes and the Tivo needing to be rebooted because of the "out of program data" issue which I'm now thinking might have been because WinMFS only does a small (128MB I think) swap file as well. One of the drives went bad, which is why I'm going to the 2TB internal drive.


As for your Garbage Collection issue, are you on a cable system that does Switched Digital Video and requires a Tuning Adapter (SDV / TA)?

If so, go read the threads about how you have to put the TA on a lamp timer to disconnect it's power in the middle of the night or whenever you aren't using the TiVo to record for about a 4 hour stretch.


----------



## caroth

unitron said:


> As for your Garbage Collection issue, are you on a cable system that does Switched Digital Video and requires a Tuning Adapter (SDV / TA)?
> 
> If so, go read the threads about how you have to put the TA on a lamp timer to disconnect it's power in the middle of the night or whenever you aren't using the TiVo to record for about a 4 hour stretch.


Yes, I am. I hadn't come across the lamp timer suggestion. I will go ahead and get my swap space issue fixed first, then I'll look for that article.

Thanks for all your help!


----------



## unitron

caroth said:


> Yes, I am. I hadn't come across the lamp timer suggestion. I will go ahead and get my swap space issue fixed first, then I'll look for that article.
> 
> Thanks for all your help!


It's a big enough problem that there's more than one thread around here about it.


----------



## caroth

unitron said:


> It's a big enough problem that there's more than one thread around here about it.


Well, it appears that the tuning adapter may be my whole issue here.

I unplugged it, rebooted the Tivo (to be safe) and within an hour, it completed indexing and I can now search for programs to record.

Still waiting for it to perform GC, but you said it could take up to four hours, so I'm patiently waiting.

Assuming it does GC, I'm debating on whether I want to re-load the drive yet again just to get the larger swap size since according to a load of the threads, people seems to be doing OK with 128MB swap files and 2TB of storage for the most part.

Have you ever tried to just manually resize the partitions (i.e. go into Ubuntu, take a Gig from the media region 3 partition and add it to the swap partition? If you/someone here hasn't, I suppose I could always try it since it doesn't take very long and worst case I'll have to re-load just as if I follow your 1GB partition reload instructions...

I have a bunch of Tivo addicts here that have been without a Tivo for 3 days, so if I keep it down too much longer, I think I'll have a mutiny on my hands...


----------



## unitron

caroth said:


> Well, it appears that the tuning adapter may be my whole issue here.
> 
> I unplugged it, rebooted the Tivo (to be safe) and within an hour, it completed indexing and I can now search for programs to record.
> 
> Still waiting for it to perform GC, but you said it could take up to four hours, so I'm patiently waiting.
> 
> Assuming it does GC, I'm debating on whether I want to re-load the drive yet again just to get the larger swap size since according to a load of the threads, people seems to be doing OK with 128MB swap files and 2TB of storage for the most part.
> 
> Have you ever tried to just manually resize the partitions (i.e. go into Ubuntu, take a Gig from the media region 3 partition and add it to the swap partition? If you/someone here hasn't, I suppose I could always try it since it doesn't take very long and worst case I'll have to re-load just as if I follow your 1GB partition reload instructions...
> 
> I have a bunch of Tivo addicts here that have been without a Tivo for 3 days, so if I keep it down too much longer, I think I'll have a mutiny on my hands...


No personal experience with TAs myself, just know what I learned from reading here. We're still an analog house except for the rabbit ears on the S3.

For upgrades, go here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

go to the last page and then back up about 5 or 10 pages and read forwards.

For more on the SDV TA problem, this

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472857

seems to be the thread where the answer was figured out.


----------



## steve614

caroth said:


> Well, it appears that the tuning adapter may be my whole issue here.
> 
> I unplugged it, rebooted the Tivo (to be safe) and within an hour, it completed indexing and I can now search for programs to record.
> 
> Still waiting for it to perform GC, but you said it could take up to four hours, so I'm patiently waiting.
> 
> Assuming it does GC, I'm debating on whether I want to re-load the drive yet again just to get the larger swap size since according to a load of the threads, people seems to be doing OK with 128MB swap files and 2TB of storage for the most part.
> 
> Have you ever tried to just manually resize the partitions (i.e. go into Ubuntu, take a Gig from the media region 3 partition and add it to the swap partition? If you/someone here hasn't, I suppose I could always try it since it doesn't take very long and worst case I'll have to re-load just as if I follow your 1GB partition reload instructions...
> 
> I have a bunch of Tivo addicts here that have been without a Tivo for 3 days, so if I keep it down too much longer, I think I'll have a mutiny on my hands...


This is only anecdotal evidence, but I upgraded my 160GB hard drive to 2 TB just like you did (only I used WinMFS to supersize) last year and have had no problems.

Put your tuning adapter on a lamp timer and I bet you will have no further problems.

For me, the size of the swap partition has been a non issue.


----------



## caroth

unitron said:


> No personal experience with TAs myself, just know what I learned from reading here. We're still an analog house except for the rabbit ears on the S3.
> 
> For upgrades, go here
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784
> 
> go to the last page and then back up about 5 or 10 pages and read forwards.
> 
> For more on the SDV TA problem, this
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472857
> 
> seems to be the thread where the answer was figured out.


Unitron,

Thanks again for all your help.

About an hour after indexing completed, GC completed as well. So the issue is definitely the tuning adapter.

I checked out the links you provided and the lamp timer for the tuning adapter was one suggested solution. Another person advised that by simply denying the Tivo access to updates for three days forces a GC without unplugging the tuning adapter and that he blocks Tivo updates three days a week with his router. I think I'll try that idea first and if that's a no go, I'll go with the "high tech" lamp timer solution... 

I did more research on the swap size and from what I can tell, I'll only have an issue if I ever get a GSOD running and judging from other posts, most of the time that means a drive being bad / going bad anyways to where you'll want to re-load on a new drive from scratch anyways, so I think I'll chance it and will stick with the 128MB swap partition rather than re-load again.


----------



## caroth

caroth said:


> Unitron,
> 
> Thanks again for all your help.
> 
> About an hour after indexing completed, GC completed as well. So the issue is definitely the tuning adapter.
> 
> I checked out the links you provided and the lamp timer for the tuning adapter was one suggested solution. Another person advised that by simply denying the Tivo access to updates for three days forces a GC without unplugging the tuning adapter and that he blocks Tivo updates three days a week with his router. I think I'll try that idea first and if that's a no go, I'll go with the "high tech" lamp timer solution...
> 
> I did more research on the swap size and from what I can tell, I'll only have an issue if I ever get a GSOD running and judging from other posts, most of the time that means a drive being bad / going bad anyways to where you'll want to re-load on a new drive from scratch anyways, so I think I'll chance it and will stick with the 128MB swap partition rather than re-load again.


FYI, in case anyone is curious, blocking the Tivo HD's internet access for a few days a week does seem to force a garbage collection, so if you have the tuning adapter/Tivo running out of guide data issue and a router that lets you do that, it may be a little more high-tech way to go than the lamp timer.

I set up a full internet block for the Tivo HDs MAC for all day every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Tonight it ran GC. I have other devices that can get Netflix and such to where I don't really need the Tivo access 24X7.

Good luck to everyone who is upgrading, I think is is a great post and was really impresses with the fast and friendly responses I received.


----------



## jilter

I do not have the guts to do an upgrade myself after reading this thread. Seems confusing and I would not know what to do in the middle if thrown a loop.
Having said that, if I bought an upgrade hard drive kit from DVR_Dude on e-Bay, how could I preserve my recordings?

Thanks,
Jill


----------



## sbourgeo

jilter said:


> I do not have the guts to do an upgrade myself after reading this thread. Seems confusing and I would not know what to do in the middle if thrown a loop.
> Having said that, if I bought an upgrade hard drive kit from DVR_Dude on e-Bay, how could I preserve my recordings?


Jill,

Unfortunately, the only way to preserve all of your recordings, settings, season passes, etc. is to use a backup from your existing drive. If you buy a drive from DVR_Dude you would have to do a "Clear and Delete everything" on it anyway to get it to work with your TiVo. If you did the DVR_Dude swap you may be able to transfer your shows elsewhere before the swap out via TiVo Desktop or pyTiVo and then transfer them back when the new disk is in place, but that is not as tidy of a solution as a straight copy from your existing disk.

FWIW, I was recently able to remotely guide a non-technical person through the process of restoring a backup onto a new disk for their series 1 DirecTiVo, so it is doable.


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> I do not have the guts to do an upgrade myself after reading this thread. Seems confusing and I would not know what to do in the middle if thrown a loop.
> Having said that, if I bought an upgrade hard drive kit from DVR_Dude on e-Bay, how could I preserve my recordings?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jill


I feel sure we can walk you through it.

How many computers do you have?

What kind?

What kind of TiVos do you have? Use the number on the sticker on the back that starts with TCD.

Have you ever opened up a computer or TiVo before?

Ever do anything mechanical?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> I feel sure we can walk you through it.


For that matter, where do you live? I'd be happy to meet you someplace and get the source drive from you, or the whole TiVo if you're not comfortable opening it up. I imagine others here would say the same.

I've upgraded probably 25 or so TiVos since 2001, mine, family's, friends' and yes, even strangers'.

Just need a little bas/beer money.


----------



## jilter

unitron said:


> I feel sure we can walk you through it.
> 
> How many computers do you have?
> 
> What kind?
> 
> What kind of TiVos do you have? Use the number on the sticker on the back that starts with TCD.
> 
> Have you ever opened up a computer or TiVo before?
> 
> Ever do anything mechanical?


Thank you very much - I sincerely appreciate it. I have done some upgrading myself of various PC's. Macs, DVR's. As long as there is implicit instructions, I think I could do it.
I have 3 desktop PC's and a Mac desktop to access.

My Tivo Series 2: *TCD240080 *.


----------



## jilter

ThreeSoFar said:


> For that matter, where do you live? I'd be happy to meet you someplace and get the source drive from you, or the whole TiVo if you're not comfortable opening it up. I imagine others here would say the same.
> 
> I've upgraded probably 25 or so TiVos since 2001, mine, family's, friends' and yes, even strangers'.
> 
> Just need a little bas/beer money.


Thank you very very much for your kind and generous pffer. I live in Chicago...what is bas money?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jilter said:


> Thank you very very much for your kind and generous pffer. I live in Chicago...what is bas money?


Gas...typo.

And in your case, it's way steeper than the beer money.

But Unitron (as usual) has the right answer. It's really not that hard. We (and Comer's awesome software) can get you through it. Just do it yourself.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jilter said:


> Thank you very very much for your kind and generous pffer. I live in Chicago...what is bas money?


And what's a "pffer"?


----------



## HerronScott

Just picked up a TiVo HD used that has the original hard drive and wanted to go ahead and upgrade it. Is the consensus that the WD20EURS is OK to use even with Advanced Format for the TiVo HD using JMFS?

Scott


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> Thank you very much - I sincerely appreciate it. I have done some upgrading myself of various PC's. Macs, DVR's. As long as there is implicit instructions, I think I could do it.
> I have 3 desktop PC's and a Mac desktop to access.
> 
> My Tivo Series 2: *TCD240080 *.


Okay, jmfs isn't what you need (it's for newer model TiVos), you need either the MFS Live cd v1.4 (which you should have anyway) or WinMFS, both of which have stood the test of time.

The first, you download a cd image (an .iso file) and burn it as an image to a cd-r. Then you use it to boot the computer, completely bypassing any operating system on your PC's regular hard drive and loading a version of Linux into memory to run the computer.

The second you download and install on a PC running Windows XP or newer.

MFS Live is an updating of the old MFS Tools, done by a guy called spike (or is it Spike?)

WinMFS is also written by him, and does much of the same stuff, but in a Windows graphical interface instead of the Linux command line of MFS Live.

Get both (seriously, get both) at mfslive.org, and while you're there do a lot of reading.

Also, for a Series 2, you'll probably need an adapter to let you use a SATA hard drive with your TiVo's PATA/IDE drive controller, if you want a very large replacement drive.

There's a whole thread devoted to which adapter works with which TiVo and which drive--

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

--but the short version is you'd need one based on either the Marvell chipset (which is what you have to have for a Series 1 'cause they're super finicky) or a JMicron chipset, which is cheaper than the Marvell based ones.

You can get one of those JMicron based ones from forum sponsor Weaknees (it's the only model they sell), or pretty much the same thing, but cheaper, from wowparts or nsioutlet (which is really wowparts) or on eBay from partsdom (which is also wowparts).

Unfortunately there are adapters that look much the same that use a different chipset, so doublecheck with us before buying.

You can use a single drive up to 1TB in size in an S2, or, if you get a special bracket from Weaknees you can use 2 drives ('cause it's an IDE controller, and they do the Master and Slave thing), and each can be up to 1TB in size.

But, as far as is currently known, you can't use a single 2TB drive in a Series 2

Since this thead is for using jmfs on a Series 3 HD or HD XL, perhaps you should start your own thread in the Upgrade Center forum.

Do you have any spare hard drives lying around?

Is your S2 currently giving any trouble, or just running out of space?

(Series 2s and Series 3s are prone to have power supply problems due to a problem called "capacitor plague", a $10 fix if you can use a soldering iron, and often strange symptoms turn out to be caused by those power supplies not being dead, but not being 100% either)


----------



## sbourgeo

HerronScott said:


> Just picked up a TiVo HD used that has the original hard drive and wanted to go ahead and upgrade it. Is the consensus that the WD20EURS is OK to use even with Advanced Format for the TiVo HD using JMFS?


I've had a WD20EURS running in my TiVo HD since June with no issues so far.


----------



## cwerdna

HerronScott said:


> Just picked up a TiVo HD used that has the original hard drive and wanted to go ahead and upgrade it. Is the consensus that the WD20EURS is OK to use even with Advanced Format for the TiVo HD using JMFS?


Interesting... when the "advanced format" drives first came on the scene, the WD drives ending in EARS were the most common "advanced format" drives. Now it looks like it's harder to tell from the model #. Have to look them up.

I too am curious about the long term reliability of this JMFS setup from a large population. Two months isn't enough of a test.

If I decide to expand, I'll need to expand from (most likely copy from) my 1 TB (only) setup as I don't want to lose my recordings.

My original 160 gig drive either went bad or got corrupted. I had to get an image and restored it onto my WD 1 TB Expander (which is my A drive, by switching some internal cables). The internal 160 gig drive is disconnected.


----------



## HerronScott

I think they are pretty much moving to Advanced Format across the board although I don't think I saw it mentioned on the Black series.

Hopefully it works since it's getting very hard to find any large drives that are not Advanced Format from the major players. Mine will be here on Tuesday....

Scott


----------



## steffen707

sbourgeo said:


> I've had a WD20EURS running in my TiVo HD since June with no issues so far.


I also have had a wd20eurs in my tivo hd for almost a year, until this ****ty s03 error, it has run flawless.


----------



## unitron

steffen707 said:


> I also have had a wd20eurs in my tivo hd for almost a year, until this ****ty s03 error, it has run flawless.


Probably not the fault of the drive.

Try this

http://texasblindjack.com/2010/10/20/how-to-remove-the-s03-error-from-your-tivo/


----------



## steffen707

cwerdna said:


> Interesting... when the "advanced format" drives first came on the scene, the WD drives ending in EARS were the most common "advanced format" drives. Now it looks like it's harder to tell from the model #. Have to look them up.
> 
> I too am curious about the long term reliability of this JMFS setup from a large population. Two months isn't enough of a test.
> 
> If I decide to expand, I'll need to expand from (most likely copy from) my 1 TB (only) setup as I don't want to lose my recordings.
> 
> My original 160 gig drive either went bad or got corrupted. I had to get an image and restored it onto my WD 1 TB Expander (which is my A drive, by switching some internal cables). The internal 160 gig drive is disconnected.


Just to note, i originally upgraded from my 160 gig to a 1TB WD drive of unknown model using winmfs, then after that got full i used JMFS to copy the 1TB to a wd 20eurs using jmfs, I expanded it with jmfs and then supersized with winmfs.

I did this about a year ago and it was running great until the s03 error happened. the wd20eurs has worked very well for me.


----------



## steffen707

unitron said:


> Probably not the fault of the drive.
> 
> Try this
> 
> http://texasblindjack.com/2010/10/20/how-to-remove-the-s03-error-from-your-tivo/


Oh I didn't mean to imply the drive was at fault. Any tampering with something that is stock can definately lead to unforseen complications. Although i've heard this s03 problem might not just be from upgrading the drive and can happen with stock 160gigs and tuning adapters. Anyways, i'll check out your link.


----------



## unitron

steffen707 said:


> Oh I didn't mean to imply the drive was at fault. Any tampering with something that is stock can definately lead to unforseen complications. Although i've heard this s03 problem might not just be from upgrading the drive and can happen with stock 160gigs and tuning adapters. Anyways, i'll check out your link.


If there's a tuning adapter in the mix you need to go read the Time Warner thread where they talk about using a lamp timer to turn it off for a while on a regular basis.


----------



## jilter

ThreeSoFar said:


> And what's a "pffer"?


----------



## jilter

unitron said:


> [........................................]
> 
> Since this thead is for using jmfs on a Series 3 HD or HD XL, perhaps you should start your own thread in the Upgrade Center forum.


As suggested, moving my query to a new thread. Thank you.


----------



## sbourgeo

steffen707 said:


> Just to note, i originally upgraded from my 160 gig to a 1TB WD drive of unknown model using winmfs, then after that got full i used JMFS to copy the 1TB to a wd 20eurs using jmfs, I expanded it with jmfs and then supersized with winmfs.
> 
> I did this about a year ago and it was running great until the s03 error happened. the wd20eurs has worked very well for me.


I took a similar upgrade path and have my 1 TB drive in my hardware stash just in case I run into issues.


----------



## HerronScott

Upgraded our "new" used TiVoHD from the original 160GB drive to a 2TB WD20EURS yesterday without any issues. Process was very smooth and no apparent issues at least immediately. 

Scott


----------



## taylor0987

Can someone please help me?
My TiVo HD had an original 160 GB HD in it. Shortly after I got it, I upgraded it to a 1.5 GB WD15EVDS using MFS tools (so it was using about 1.2 GB of that drive)

The WD15EVDS died completely (could not access from the TiVo or from the computer) but it was under warranty so WD replaced it with a WD20EURS.

I put the original 160 GB HD in the TiVo and let it update the software. I then used JMFS tools to copy the 160 to the WD20EURS, and then used JMFS to expand it. 

After JMFS was done I booted the computer into Windows and ran WinMFS to supersize the drive. I ran WDIDLE3 and it showed as disabled. I put the drive into TiVo and it seemed to work fine at first. It showed 318 hours of space.

After a couple of days, the TiVo would show a gray screen after a while. No buttons on the remote would bring it out of the screen.

So I let it run the complete SMART test in kickstart 54 and everything passed. I then tried running WDIDLE3 /s300 on the drive and put it back in the TiVo. After being in the TiVo for about 12 hours, the gray screen came back.

It is currently running kickstart 57.
Can anyone suggest what I should do next?

Thank you


----------



## Tivoitis

taylor0987 said:


> Can someone please help me?
> My TiVo HD had an original 160 GB HD in it. Shortly after I got it, I upgraded it to a 1.5 GB WD15EVDS using MFS tools (so it was using about 1.2 GB of that drive)
> 
> The WD15EVDS died completely (could not access from the TiVo or from the computer) but it was under warranty so WD replaced it with a WD20EURS.
> 
> I put the original 160 GB HD in the TiVo and let it update the software. I then used JMFS tools to copy the 160 to the WD20EURS, and then used JMFS to expand it.
> 
> After JMFS was done I booted the computer into Windows and ran WinMFS to supersize the drive. I ran WDIDLE3 and it showed as disabled. I put the drive into TiVo and it seemed to work fine at first. It showed 318 hours of space.
> 
> After a couple of days, the TiVo would show a gray screen after a while. No buttons on the remote would bring it out of the screen.
> 
> So I let it run the complete SMART test in kickstart 54 and everything passed. I then tried running WDIDLE3 /s300 on the drive and put it back in the TiVo. After being in the TiVo for about 12 hours, the gray screen came back.
> 
> It is currently running kickstart 57.
> Can anyone suggest what I should do next?
> 
> Thank you


I'd start with the original 160 GB and seeing if the THD will stay stable with that running for a couple of days.

Also, are you using it with a cablecard? If so, is it possible you have a different cablecard now than when you originally had the 160 GB drive in the THD?


----------



## taylor0987

Tivoitis said:


> I'd start with the original 160 GB and seeing if the THD will stay stable with that running for a couple of days.
> 
> Also, are you using it with a cablecard? If so, is it possible you have a different cablecard now than when you originally had the 160 GB drive in the THD?


Thanks for the suggestions, but I pretty much tried that. While I was waiting for the replacement drive to arrive, it ran great for about 5 days using the original 160. It's the same cablecard.


----------



## dwit

taylor0987 said:


> ...Can anyone suggest what I should do next?
> 
> Thank you


Have you tried running the WD Data Lifeguard tool(WD diagnostic cd-download)?


----------



## taylor0987

dwit said:


> Have you tried running the WD Data Lifeguard tool(WD diagnostic cd-download)?


I ran it today. It passed the short (two minute) and the long test (7 hours).
I guess I will try copying it again from the original

Thanks


----------



## kuletong

Kudos to ALL those who shared and continously helped everyone upgrading their Tivo DVRs. After doing my fair share of reading the posts, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my TivoHD to 2TB successfully. I thought I'll share some information which hopefully can be of value to others. 

Prior to upgrading, my TivoHD had the orignial WD 160gb with the external WD 500gb DVR expander. After 4 years with this setup, I encountered stuttering on live TV for ALL HD programming, constant reboot, sluggish response from the remote control, and partial recordings. After doing research, all seems to point to hard disk problems.

First step, I "unmarry" my external drive. Took a while to reboot but came up fine. Definitely lost all my recordings but was prepared to have that.

I bought Hitachi Deskstar 7K3000 2TB HDS723020BLA642 at Frys for $109.99. But a day later, Microcenter came up with the same model for $89.99. Fry's price matched the drive.

I'm using an old computer, HP media Center (yes, I know it's old !) running XP. This computer does not have a SATA interface so I bought a PCI / SATA card ($15 at Fry's) that has two SATA ports. 
Two important things here : 
- New hard disk I bought did not have a SATA cable included. I have to buy one, actually two.
- Power supply plug is different fom IDE(4 pin) and SATA(15pin). There is a a converter from 4pin to 15pin, again, bought at Fry's for $6 each. I needed 2. 

I connected the two drives (WD 160gb and HD 2tb) on my computer and booted JMFS. I followed the "Copy" and "Expand" step. The "copy" on my 160GB took about an hour and the "expand" took just a couple of minutes.

Things I did NOT do :
- Winmfs to supersize. Not that 30gb did not matter, I just left it alone.
- AAM settings. 
- Intellipark settings.

After connecting the new drive to TivoHD, it booted successfully. Checked system info and it reported 287 hours of recording space for HD.
I tested the soft reboot and it worked as expected. Just for kicks, I even tried it twice just to see that it is working and not just a fluke, and at both times, it rebooted perfectly.

I still have all the network settings and season pass. The comcast cable cards are working and I can watch the premium channels I'm subscribe to.


Outside of the hard disk upgrade, I actually spent more time taking the Tivo cover and getting the old hard disk out. The 6 screws at the back of the Tivo and on the hard disk brace are not normal screws.

You need torx screw driver to take them out, and the following are what I used :
- Torx T10 (for the six screws at the back and on 4 srews on the hard disk brace) 
- Torx T15 (for the 4 screws on the hard disk itself and the brace)

Once I have those two Torx screw driver (I used the torx drill tip), it was easier to take and put them back in.

As it stands right now, TivoHD is doing good. I hope it stays that way!


----------



## unitron

kuletong said:


> Kudos to ALL those who shared and continously helped everyone upgrading their Tivo DVRs. After doing my fair share of reading the posts, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my TivoHD to 2TB successfully. I thought I'll share some information which hopefully can be of value to others.
> 
> Prior to upgrading, my TivoHD had the orignial WD 160gb with the external WD 500gb DVR expander. After 4 years with this setup, I encountered stuttering on live TV for ALL HD programming, constant reboot, sluggish response from the remote control, and partial recordings. After doing research, all seems to point to hard disk problems.
> 
> First step, I "unmarry" my external drive. Took a while to reboot but came up fine. Definitely lost all my recordings but was prepared to have that.
> 
> I bought Hitachi Deskstar 7K3000 2TB HDS723020BLA642 at Frys for $109.99. But a day later, Microcenter came up with the same model for $89.99. Fry's price matched the drive.
> 
> I'm using an old computer, HP media Center (yes, I know it's old !) running XP. This computer does not have a SATA interface so I bought a PCI / SATA card ($15 at Fry's) that has two SATA ports.
> Two important things here :
> - New hard disk I bought did not have a SATA cable included. I have to buy one, actually two.
> - Power supply plug is different fom IDE(4 pin) and SATA(15pin). There is a a converter from 4pin to 15pin, again, bought at Fry's for $6 each. I needed 2.
> 
> I connected the two drives (WD 160gb and HD 2tb) on my computer and booted JMFS. I followed the "Copy" and "Expand" step. The "copy" on my 160GB took about an hour and the "expand" took just a couple of minutes.
> 
> Things I did NOT do :
> - Winmfs to supersize. Not that 30gb did not matter, I just left it alone.
> - AAM settings.
> - Intellipark settings.
> 
> After connecting the new drive to TivoHD, it booted successfully. Checked system info and it reported 287 hours of recording space for HD.
> I tested the soft reboot and it worked as expected. Just for kicks, I even tried it twice just to see that it is working and not just a fluke, and at both times, it rebooted perfectly.
> 
> I still have all the network settings and season pass. The comcast cable cards are working and I can watch the premium channels I'm subscribe to.
> 
> Outside of the hard disk upgrade, I actually spent more time taking the Tivo cover and getting the old hard disk out. The 6 screws at the back of the Tivo and on the hard disk brace are not normal screws.
> 
> You need torx screw driver to take them out, and the following are what I used :
> - Torx T10 (for the six screws at the back and on 4 srews on the hard disk brace)
> - Torx T15 (for the 4 screws on the hard disk itself and the brace)
> 
> Once I have those two Torx screw driver (I used the torx drill tip), it was easier to take and put them back in.
> 
> As it stands right now, TivoHD is doing good. I hope it stays that way!


Intellipark is strictly a WD thing.

It seems that model Hitachi is one of the few non-AF 2TB drives still available.


----------



## wongster12

Sorry for the newbie question guys. I have a tivo-hd that a upgraded to a 1tb Hitachi a few years back and it started to randomly reboot and locks up. I am interested int three drives. Can you tell me the main differences? I read the last 10 pages and couldn't find the answer. 

The 3 drives are WD20EARS, WD20EARX, and WD20EURS.

Thanks in advance


----------



## unitron

wongster12 said:


> Sorry for the newbie question guys. I have a tivo-hd that a upgraded to a 1tb Hitachi a few years back and it started to randomly reboot and locks up. I am interested int three drives. Can you tell me the main differences? I read the last 10 pages and couldn't find the answer.
> 
> The 3 drives are WD20EARS, WD20EARX, and WD20EURS.
> 
> Thanks in advance


People have successfully used the EARS and the EURS.

I don't remember seeing any success stories for the EARX.


----------



## taylor0987

taylor0987 said:


> Can someone please help me?
> My TiVo HD had an original 160 GB HD in it. Shortly after I got it, I upgraded it to a 1.5 GB WD15EVDS using MFS tools (so it was using about 1.2 GB of that drive)
> 
> The WD15EVDS died completely (could not access from the TiVo or from the computer) but it was under warranty so WD replaced it with a WD20EURS.
> 
> I put the original 160 GB HD in the TiVo and let it update the software. I then used JMFS tools to copy the 160 to the WD20EURS, and then used JMFS to expand it.
> 
> After JMFS was done I booted the computer into Windows and ran WinMFS to supersize the drive. I ran WDIDLE3 and it showed as disabled. I put the drive into TiVo and it seemed to work fine at first. It showed 318 hours of space.
> 
> After a couple of days, the TiVo would show a gray screen after a while. No buttons on the remote would bring it out of the screen.
> 
> So I let it run the complete SMART test in kickstart 54 and everything passed. I then tried running WDIDLE3 /s300 on the drive and put it back in the TiVo. After being in the TiVo for about 12 hours, the gray screen came back.
> 
> It is currently running kickstart 57.
> Can anyone suggest what I should do next?
> 
> Thank you


Well I seem to have this WD20EURS working properly now.

The 2TB passed all of the WD tests, but my original 160GB reported a bad sector. I was afraid to let the WD tools repair it so I proceeded without doing that.

I tried re-copying my original 160 to the WD20EURS using JMFS again. Then I expanded with JMFS. I skipped the step of supersizing using MFSTools. It has been running well for 5 days now. I will live with the "only" 287 hours for now.


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> Well I seem to have this WD20EURS working properly now.
> 
> The 2TB passed all of the WD tests, but my original 160GB reported a bad sector. I was afraid to let the WD tools repair it so I proceeded without doing that.
> 
> I tried re-copying my original 160 to the WD20EURS using JMFS again. Then I expanded with JMFS. I skipped the step of supersizing using MFSTools. It has been running well for 5 days now. I will live with the "only" 287 hours for now.


WD's own diagnostic software would have repaired the drive by marking that bad sector as bad after copying its contents to a previously unused "spare" sector, which exists solely for that purpose, and remapping the sector numbers.


----------



## taylor0987

taylor0987 said:


> Well I seem to have this WD20EURS working properly now.
> 
> The 2TB passed all of the WD tests, but my original 160GB reported a bad sector. I was afraid to let the WD tools repair it so I proceeded without doing that.
> 
> I tried re-copying my original 160 to the WD20EURS using JMFS again. Then I expanded with JMFS. I skipped the step of supersizing using MFSTools. It has been running well for 5 days now. I will live with the "only" 287 hours for now.





unitron said:


> WD's own diagnostic software would have repaired the drive by marking that bad sector as bad after copying its contents to a previously unused "spare" sector, which exists solely for that purpose, and remapping the sector numbers.


ugh its rebooting like crazy today. I am going to try a different hard drive that I have here (ST32000542AS) with a fresh image.
If that doesn't work, then what next? Power supply?


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> ugh its rebooting like crazy today. I am going to try a different hard drive that I have here (ST32000542AS) with a fresh image.
> If that doesn't work, then what next? Power supply?


Well, the EURS is known to work in TiVos (unless they've monkey with it recently and you got one of the new ones).

Put a fresh image on the EURS and leave it at 160GB worth, no expand, no supersize, and try that in the TiVo.

Try it without cable cards inserted.

This is troubleshooting, we can try for permanent setup after we figure out what's wrong.

In the meantime let the WD software fix the 160.


----------



## taylor0987

unitron said:


> Well, the EURS is known to work in TiVos (unless they've monkey with it recently and you got one of the new ones).
> 
> Put a fresh image on the EURS and leave it at 160GB worth, no expand, no supersize, and try that in the TiVo.
> 
> Try it without cable cards inserted.
> 
> This is troubleshooting, we can try for permanent setup after we figure out what's wrong.
> 
> In the meantime let the WD software fix the 160.


OK I will try. 
The WD software says "The data stored in the bad sectors will be lost" rather than stating that the data will be copied to an unused spare sector. So I am reluctant to do that. But I don't think I have much to lose at this point.


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> OK I will try.
> The WD software says "The data stored in the bad sectors will be lost" rather than stating that the data will be copied to an unused spare sector. So I am reluctant to do that. But I don't think I have much to lose at this point.


Okay, that's less than wonderful.

How much effort do you want to put into saving your recordings?


----------



## taylor0987

unitron said:


> Okay, that's less than wonderful.
> 
> How much effort do you want to put into saving your recordings?


I'm not concerned at all about saving the recordings
Thanks


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> I'm not concerned at all about saving the recordings
> Thanks


Then let the WD software fix it.

Do you have cable cards?

How big a pain in the posterior is it to pair them?


----------



## taylor0987

unitron said:


> Then let the WD software fix it.
> 
> Do you have cable cards?
> 
> How big a pain in the posterior is it to pair them?


I have a cable card. After I paired the TiVo to the cable card, I took the original 160 drive out and I also did a truncated backup of it using winmfs. At that time, the 160 didn't have the bad sector. So that is the clean image that I have now put on the EURS.

If I wanted to start with a cleaner image (from the "don't PM me" thread) then the pairing is not supposed to be too difficult any more.

Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## kubcat

Newbie here - My Tivo HD froze on the welcome powering up screen last week, so I lurked around here for a while and planned my attack. I used WinMFS to create a truncated backup of the original 160GB drive, which worked. I ordered my WD20EURS and D/L an JMFS boot disk. Then the trouble began. I was not able to get the boot disk to work with an ASROCK p67 mboard/BIOS, so I made a bootable USB, which did finally boot up and run the script successfully, but it did NOT recognize my Tivo disk. WinMFS did and still does, so I tried to use that to clone the 160GB original. It hangs on the first media partition, though, so I think the disk is really bad. I really want to get to 2 TB, so I want JMFS to see the new one. Any suggestions from those who have already been there?


----------



## unitron

kubcat said:


> Newbie here - My Tivo HD froze on the welcome powering up screen last week, so I lurked around here for a while and planned my attack. I used WinMFS to create a truncated backup of the original 160GB drive, which worked. I ordered my WD20EURS and D/L an JMFS boot disk. Then the trouble began. I was not able to get the boot disk to work with an ASROCK p67 mboard/BIOS, so I made a bootable USB, which did finally boot up and run the script successfully, but it did NOT recognize my Tivo disk. WinMFS did and still does, so I tried to use that to clone the 160GB original. It hangs on the first media partition, though, so I think the disk is really bad. I really want to get to 2 TB, so I want JMFS to see the new one. Any suggestions from those who have already been there?


First you find out what's wrong.

Then and only then do you select a cure.

You selected a cure for a bad hard drive and then proceeded to make a backup from that drive in anticipation of replacing it with a bigger drive.

Maybe there was nothing wrong with the drive itself. Maybe something else was causing the problem.

Or maybe there was and the backup is flawed because the source was flawed, but you won't know that until you use it on a different drive.


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> I have a cable card. After I paired the TiVo to the cable card, I took the original 160 drive out and I also did a truncated backup of it using winmfs. At that time, the 160 didn't have the bad sector. So that is the clean image that I have now put on the EURS.
> 
> If I wanted to start with a cleaner image (from the "don't PM me" thread) then the pairing is not supposed to be too difficult any more.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help!


Let the WD software fix the 160 and then restore from that backup (you're sure you're okay with losing the recordings?) and try that in the TiVo.

The reason I mentioned the cable card is because somethimes the power supply is going bad because of "capacitor plague" and the extra draw from the card is enough to put it into "not quite stable enough not to crash the TiVo occasionally" territory.

(if the power supply has problems, differences in how much which drive pulls from which output, +5 or +12 V, may also affect performance and stability)

Let it start up and tell you that the card is missing, and you can tell it to do whatever it needs to in order to deal with that.

Then see if it crashes any for a day or so.


----------



## kubcat

unitron said:


> First you find out what's wrong.
> 
> Then and only then do you select a cure.
> 
> You selected a cure for a bad hard drive and then proceeded to make a backup from that drive in anticipation of replacing it with a bigger drive.
> 
> Maybe there was nothing wrong with the drive itself. Maybe something else was causing the problem.
> 
> Or maybe there was and the backup is flawed because the source was flawed, but you won't know that until you use it on a different drive.


Well, In the interest of brevity, I omitted the troubleshooting and diagnostics. I followed all of the suggestions for testing the drive, and the result was a confirmation that the drive was bad, which it is! I had no expectations of even getting a backup off of it, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Anyway, skip to current sitch...finally found the magic combination of BIOS settings to get the USB drive to boot AND to recognize the Tivo drive. I left it running all night, and now JFMS is retrying bad sectors (retry 1 of 3!?) and not progressing fast at all. It seems like it may take dozens more hours to get through 3 retry passes, and I don't want to wait, or tie up the PC for that long. I really don't care about losing a few hours of shows, and because of the successful trunc. backup, I don't think the bad sectors were in the boot partitions (I hope, anyway). What happens if I ctrl-c out of JFMS at this point and proceed to expanding the drive? Will it be unstable in the Tivo? Please advise, and thanks for the many previous years of effort that helped me get this far!


----------



## unitron

kubcat said:


> Well, In the interest of brevity, I omitted the troubleshooting and diagnostics. I followed all of the suggestions for testing the drive, and the result was a confirmation that the drive was bad, which it is! I had no expectations of even getting a backup off of it, but I was pleasantly surprised.
> 
> Anyway, skip to current sitch...finally found the magic combination of BIOS settings to get the USB drive to boot AND to recognize the Tivo drive. I left it running all night, and now JFMS is retrying bad sectors (retry 1 of 3!?) and not progressing fast at all. It seems like it may take dozens more hours to get through 3 retry passes, and I don't want to wait, or tie up the PC for that long. I really don't care about losing a few hours of shows, and because of the successful trunc. backup, I don't think the bad sectors were in the boot partitions (I hope, anyway). What happens if I ctrl-c out of JFMS at this point and proceed to expanding the drive? Will it be unstable in the Tivo? Please advise, and thanks for the many previous years of effort that helped me get this far!


I think jmfs uses

ddrescue

which I haven't really spent any time working with since

dd_rescue

is right there on the MFS Live cd

and I haven't read the source code for either, so I have no idea what sort of shape it would leave things if interrupted.

Do you have any other drives of 160GB or more lying around available for temporary duty?


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> dd_rescue
> 
> is right there on the MFS Live cd
> 
> and I haven't read the source code for either, so I have no idea what sort of shape it would leave things if interrupted.


It does not do so by default, but if there is a writable storage medium available (which may not be the case for a live CD boot), the user can specify a log file to which dd_rescue can write. One may then stop dd_rescue and have it continue the restore at a later time. The latest version of dd-rescue also supports re-creating the log file from the partially restored data, thus allowing the restore to continue.


----------



## taylor0987

unitron said:


> Let the WD software fix the 160 and then restore from that backup (you're sure you're okay with losing the recordings?) and try that in the TiVo.
> 
> The reason I mentioned the cable card is because somethimes the power supply is going bad because of "capacitor plague" and the extra draw from the card is enough to put it into "not quite stable enough not to crash the TiVo occasionally" territory.
> 
> (if the power supply has problems, differences in how much which drive pulls from which output, +5 or +12 V, may also affect performance and stability)
> 
> Let it start up and tell you that the card is missing, and you can tell it to do whatever it needs to in order to deal with that.
> 
> Then see if it crashes any for a day or so.


ugh the WD software could not repair the error on the original 160GB drive. So I am going to try with a 320 GB drive (not from a TiVo) that I have here.

I don't see any bulging capacitors but that doesn't definitely rule out the power supply. I am familiar with the cap issue as we had a couple hundred Dell GX 280 systems at work...

Thanks so much for your help, I will keep reporting back.


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> ugh the WD software could not repair the error on the original 160GB drive. So I am going to try with a 320 GB drive (not from a TiVo) that I have here.
> 
> I don't see any bulging capacitors but that doesn't definitely rule out the power supply. I am familiar with the cap issue as we had a couple hundred Dell GX 280 systems at work...
> 
> Thanks so much for your help, I will keep reporting back.


Good luck.
If you can put a voltmeter on the power supply outputs, especially the red and the yellow, you can see if it's managing to stay near what it's supposed to be putting out.

Let me know if you need to know how to do that.


----------



## taylor0987

unitron said:


> Good luck.
> If you can put a voltmeter on the power supply outputs, especially the red and the yellow, you can see if it's managing to stay near what it's supposed to be putting out.
> 
> Let me know if you need to know how to do that.


There is some white putty or something on the power supply where the wires are soldered to it. I don't see where I can test the voltages if I have the hard drive plugged in.
I am also stuck what steps I should take to get the image onto the 320 GB hard drive. Should I restore the tbk using winmfs and then expand in winmfs? or should I tell it not to expand?
Thanks


----------



## unitron

taylor0987 said:


> There is some white putty or something on the power supply where the wires are soldered to it. I don't see where I can test the voltages if I have the hard drive plugged in.
> I am also stuck what steps I should take to get the image onto the 320 GB hard drive. Should I restore the tbk using winmfs and then expand in winmfs? or should I tell it not to expand?
> Thanks


I'm starting to lose track of who has which problem.

That white stuff is just glue to hold stuff in place while it gets soldered.

But the wires that leave the power supply board have to go somewhere, and they do. They go to the hard drive and to the motherboard.

The red wire that goes to the motherboard comes off of the same +5V output as the one that goes to the hard drive.

The yellow wire that goes to the motherboard comes off of the same +12V output as the one that goes to the hard drive.

The black wires that come off of the power supply board are all tied to ground at the power supply board.

If your voltmeter has an alligator clip on the black (-) lead, then you can clip it onto the metal chassis on the side opposite the power supply (we want to stay away from that as much as possible to avoid "unfortunate occurrences").

If it has a "needle tip" probe like the red lead (+), then you can stick it down into the plug on the motherboard that comes from the power supply where one of the black wires goes until you make contact with the metal socket or pin on the end that goes over the pin on the motherboard or into the socket on the motherboard (don't have one to take apart and look at at the moment).

Then you stick the + lead into the hole the red wire goes into, or the hole the yellow wire goes into, and you take your measurements there, since it's electrically the same as if you could stick the probes into the back of the hard drive.

Be careful not to let the meter probes lean over and touch each other or anything else, at least not the metal tips on the end.

Always know where both ends of the AC power cord for the TiVo are.

Better to connect and disconnect at the wall socket than at the AC input jack on the power supply, so you don't risk moving the uncovered TiVo around.

Even better, a power strip with a switch, so you don't have to do any plugging and unplugging and it's right there under your hand.

You can test with the hard drive screwed down but unplugged, and then plug the plug into the back of it and see how much change, if any, there is when the power supply suddenly has to deal with that added load.

A good supply that's regulating the way it's supposed to should be able to take it in stride with little if any change in voltage.

As for the 320 drive, just restore an image onto it and try it in the TiVo to see if it works.

Once we've found the problem we can worry about expanding and supersizing and such.


----------



## Melencio

Hello everyone... Sorry if this has been asked and answered on this thread. Is it possible to use my 1TB replacement (instead of the original 160Gb drive) to prep a WD20EURS for my TivoHD. Tried going through 18 pages of posts but I needed an answer quicker. The fall season is upon us.


----------



## unitron

Melencio said:


> Hello everyone... Sorry if this has been asked and answered on this thread. Is it possible to use my 1TB replacement (instead of the original 160Gb drive) to prep a WD20EURS for my TivoHD. Tried going through 18 pages of posts but I needed an answer quicker. The fall season is upon us.


Yes, it is possible.

I used a 1TB as a middleman when I put a WD20EADS in my HD (which I'm about to replace with a WD20EURS so I can use the EADS elsewhere).

Are you currently using the 1TB in the HD?

Are there shows on there you want to save?


----------



## Melencio

unitron said:


> Yes, it is possible.
> 
> I used a 1TB as a middleman when I put a WD20EADS in my HD (which I'm about to replace with a WD20EURS so I can use the EADS elsewhere).
> 
> Are you currently using the 1TB in the HD?
> 
> Are there shows on there you want to save?


Yes... The 1TB is currently in the TivoHD, although it's randomly skipping recordings halfway and stuttering on live TV.
There are shows that my son want me to save.
Should I be using the Winmfs or do the jmfs route. What was the path you took to achieve success in your upgrade?


----------



## unitron

Melencio said:


> Yes... The 1TB is currently in the TivoHD, although it's randomly skipping recordings halfway and stuttering on live TV.
> There are shows that my son want me to save.
> Should I be using the Winmfs or do the jmfs route. What was the path you took to achieve success in your upgrade?


Once I had the 1TB set up the way I wanted, I used the jmfs cd to copy it to a 2TB and expand by adding a 16th partition.

In order to do that, the 1TB needed not to have any unused space, which would have shown up in the partition map as an Apple Free partition.

That's right, unpartitioned space is a partition in the Apple Partition Map way of doing things, just as the partition map itself is the first partition.

If you used WinMFS to go from the original 160GB drive to the 1TB then maybe you got lucky and what you have on there is the original 13 partitions plus the 3rd MFS pair added by WinMFS and it used all the space so there's no 16th Apple Free partition.

If you used the MFS Live cd, based on the older MFS Tools, there's a greater chance you weren't as lucky.

Either boot with the MFS Live cd and use

pdisk -l

to look at the 1TB's partition map, or use WinMFS and click on View, mfsinfo to get to where you can look at the partition map.

If there're only 15 partitions then you can use the jmfs cd to copy to the 2TB and have it expand by adding a 16th single MFS Media partition.


----------



## Melencio

Sounds really complicated. I know this asking a lot but, do you have a step-by-step on this one Unitron?


----------



## unitron

Melencio said:


> Sounds really complicated. I know this asking a lot but, do you have a step-by-step on this one Unitron?


Did you do the 1TB replacement yourself?


----------



## Melencio

I did... I think I used Instant Cake for it. This was back in 2007-2008.


----------



## unitron

Melencio said:


> I did... I think I used Instant Cake for it. This was back in 2007-2008.


Did you have a physical cd shipped to you, or did you download and burn your own copy?

I'm trying to see if you know how to burn a bootable cd image _as an image_.

You need to go to the first post of this thread and read.

And then use the link in it to go to the first post in the Premiere jmfs thread for the link to download the jmfs v1.04 cd image, and burn that image as an image to a cd-r.

You should also go to mfslive.org to get the image for the MFS Live cd v1.4 and burn yourself a copy of that and also download from that same site the WinMFS program.

Better to have a few tools too many than too few.

Which reminds me, go here as well

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

It has the manufacturers' diagnostic software for practically all of the hard drive brands, and a bunch of other useful stuff as well.

You need to get a look at the partition map on that 1TB to see if there's an Apple Free partition on the end or not.


----------



## Melencio

I can create a bootable CD image. Looking through all the information that you've provided me, I think I'll have the entire weekend for this project. 
Thanks for all the help Unitron. Incidentally, what do you think about a 4-5 year old TivoHD? Do you think it would hold up to another 2 years or so with a new hard drive? What part could give out next do you think?


----------



## unitron

Melencio said:


> I can create a bootable CD image. Looking through all the information that you've provided me, I think I'll have the entire weekend for this project.
> Thanks for all the help Unitron. Incidentally, what do you think about a 4-5 year old TivoHD? Do you think it would hold up to another 2 years or so with a new hard drive? What part could give out next do you think?


Probably some of the capacitors in the power supply if they're the ones affected by "capacitor plague".

Search this site for the word "capacitor" and you should find a lot to read.

If you can figure out which caps are connected directly between the +5 Vot output and ground and between the +12 Volt output and ground, you can replace them with the correct parts (high temp, low ESR) for about $10, maybe less.

Or you can wait until they've gone bad enough that you can spot them by the bulging tops or leakage.


----------



## taylor0987

unitron said:


> ...
> 
> A good supply that's regulating the way it's supposed to should be able to take it in stride with little if any change in voltage.
> 
> As for the 320 drive, just restore an image onto it and try it in the TiVo to see if it works.
> 
> Once we've found the problem we can worry about expanding and supersizing and such.


OK I have been running off the expanded and supersized ST32000542AS 2TB drive for at least 2 weeks now and have 0 problems.
The WD20EURS that WD sent me as a replacement for my older 1.5tb must have a problem, even though it does not fail any WD tests. I will still try to get them to replace it as I want that storage in my WHS.
Thanks so much for your help Unitron.


----------



## ibteper

unitron said:


> People have successfully used the EARS and the EURS.
> 
> I don't remember seeing any success stories for the EARX.


Dear Unitron
Sorry to contact you about this but as a newbie I'm totally lost. You seem to know a lot about upgrading.
I copied my original to a WD20eurs with JMFS after the supersize was successful I couldn't exit or shut down so I powered down. I could not run wdidle but tried the larger drive in my tivo anyway. The welcome screen comes on for a few seconds and restarts over and over. I replaced my original 320 gig drive and it works.
I have no idea what to do
Thanks for any guidance
Ira


----------



## unitron

ibteper said:


> Dear Unitron
> Sorry to contact you about this but as a newbie I'm totally lost. You seem to know a lot about upgrading.
> I copied my original to a WD20eurs with JMFS after the supersize was successful I couldn't exit or shut down so I powered down. I could not run wdidle but tried the larger drive in my tivo anyway. The welcome screen comes on for a few seconds and restarts over and over. I replaced my original 320 gig drive and it works.
> I have no idea what to do
> Thanks for any guidance
> Ira


What's the model number of your TiVo?

320 suggests Premiere, not one of the S3s.

Did you use jmfs to supersize, or WinMFS?

Did you use WinMFS, or MFS Live, at all?

How did you have the drives connected to your computer?

Does your computer have a GigaByte brand motherboard?

How did you go about tryin to run wdidle3?


----------



## cccoker

Ok, about to try this process to upgrade my THD... Just got a new WD20EURS drive, which has AF. Is the consensus: DO NOT use any jumper setting (eg pins 7-8, XP compatibility mode), and DO NOT use WD's alignment tool? Just run as-is according to OP?

Any recent WD20EURs success stories with extra advice would be appreciated!

Thanks everyone, wish me luck!


----------



## lessd

cccoker said:


> Ok, about to try this process to upgrade my THD... Just got a new WD20EURS drive, which has AF. Is the consensus: DO NOT use any jumper setting (eg pins 7-8, XP compatibility mode), and DO NOT use WD's alignment tool? Just run as-is according to OP?
> 
> Any recent WD20EURs success stories with extra advice would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks everyone, wish me luck!


Just upgraded using that drive for a TP-4 no problems, I did run Widel3 (or whatever) just because when connected to the computer it is easy, and the green part of the drive has no use in a TiVo.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

What's a good going rate for selling a lifetime'd HD TiVo? It's working great, already been upgraded but a couple/few years back. I think to 1TB. I'm keeping the S3 generation Glo-remote.

Just received a lifetimed S4 Premiere from TiVo for just $425, shipped. Couldn't pass that up. Already have the 2TB WD20EURS from newegg.com @ $100 to drop in.


----------



## lessd

ThreeSoFar said:


> What's a good going rate for selling a lifetime'd HD TiVo? It's working great, already been upgraded but a couple/few years back. I think to 1TB. I'm keeping the S3 generation Glo-remote.
> 
> Just received a lifetimed S4 Premiere from TiVo for just $425, shipped. Couldn't pass that up. Already have the 2TB WD20EURS from newegg.com @ $100 to drop in.


Use the advance search on E-Bay and check completed sales only and you will get the best answer anybody can give. On the E-Bay sale price check if shipping was extra.


----------



## HerronScott

cccoker said:


> Ok, about to try this process to upgrade my THD... Just got a new WD20EURS drive, which has AF. Is the consensus: DO NOT use any jumper setting (eg pins 7-8, XP compatibility mode), and DO NOT use WD's alignment tool? Just run as-is according to OP?
> 
> Any recent WD20EURs success stories with extra advice would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks everyone, wish me luck!


I did this a couple of months ago on a used lifetime HD that I picked up for my son who was going off to college. I did not do either the jumper settings or running the alignment tool.

So far it appears to be working well for him.

Scott


----------



## lessd

HerronScott said:


> I did this a couple of months ago on a used lifetime HD that I picked up for my son who was going off to college. I did not do either the jumper settings or running the alignment tool.
> 
> So far it appears to be working well for him.
> 
> Scott


AF drives will not give you any problems as long as they are 2TB or less, I could not get a 2.5Tb drive to boot in a TP, even if I did not expand the drive.


----------



## sbourgeo

sbourgeo said:


> I've had a WD20EURS running in my TiVo HD since June with no issues so far.


Oops, my TiVo HD wouldn't get past the "Almost There..." screen this morning. I was in a hurry to watch the 1:00 football games so I popped in my old 1 GB drive and it booted just fine. I'm not sure when I'll get to run the disk diags on my four month old WD20EURS due to Hurricane Sandy, but I'm not hopeful.


----------



## sbourgeo

sbourgeo said:


> Oops, my TiVo HD wouldn't get past the "Almost There..." screen this morning. I was in a hurry to watch the 1:00 football games so I popped in my old 1 GB drive and it booted just fine. I'm not sure when I'll get to run the disk diags on my four month old WD20EURS due to Hurricane Sandy, but I'm not hopeful.


Hmm, my WD20EURS was able to pass the Western Digital long disk diags without a problem (~6 hour run time). My old 1 TB WD10EVCS works perfectly in my TiVo, so something weird is going on with the 2 TB disk. I'd guess that a kickstart 57 is the next thing to try...


----------



## unitron

sbourgeo said:


> Hmm, my WD20EURS was able to pass the Western Digital long disk diags without a problem (~6 hour run time). My old 1 TB WD10EVCS works perfectly in my TiVo, so something weird is going on with the 2 TB disk. I'd guess that a kickstart 57 is the next thing to try...


You could hook the EURS up to a PC and run WinMFS and mfsinfo to see if it's booting from 2-3-4 or 5-6-7, and then flip to the alternate.

Bootfix or fix bootpage or something like that in WinMFS has two options.

Option 1 sets it for 2-3-4, regardless of how it's set already, and Option 2 sets it for 5-6-7, regardless of how it's set.

And KS 58 supposedly does everything 57 does and a little more.


----------



## sbourgeo

I did the kickstart 58, got the "Installing a service update" message but my TiVo HD just kept rebooting after that. No luck having it boot off the previous set of partitions either.

I did pull the logs and did see some weird checksum errors in tvlog:



> Nov 5 12:49:44 (none) MFS[171]: Failed to update total sector count
> Nov 5 12:50:02 (none) FsNodeTable[237]: Inode page 117115 has bad CRC in primary
> Nov 5 12:50:02 (none) MFS[237]: Dumping Zone data
> ...
> Nov 5 12:50:15 (none) FsNodeTable[241]: Inode page 97615 has bad CRC in primary
> ...
> Nov 5 12:52:56 (none) Billboard[322]: ERROR READING BILLBOARD! id = 589831 (GroupId: 9, ItemId: 7)
> Nov 5 12:53:01 (none) FsNodeTable[360]: Inode page 86919 has bad CRC in primary
> Nov 5 12:53:01 (none) MFS[360]: Dumping Zone data
> ...
> Nov 5 12:53:12 (none) Activity TvRecorderActivity[360]: 0x04a898dc 0x004fd03c 0x005077e0 0x004e25e0 0x004e835c 0x0050ef08 0x004f1394 0x004dbdb0 0x00475fa0 0x00475dd4 0x00475d5c 0x00e30948 0x00e31198 0x007d0730 0x00e30a94 0x006ffc90 0x006f8120 0x0075d4e4 0x04a2be74 0x04a306fc 0x04a695ec 0x04a2d898 0x04a305cc 0x04a2e52c 0x04a3bdac 0x04a3bcb0 0x04a3bb60 0x04a3ad34
> Nov 5 12:53:12 (none) Activity TvRecorderActivity[360]: Tmk Fatal Error: Activity TvRecorderActivity <360>: assertion failure
> Nov 5 12:53:12 (none) Activity TvRecorderActivity[360]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread died due to signal -2
> Nov 5 12:53:12 (none) Activity TvRecorderActivity[360]: Invoking rule 834: rebooting system


At this point, I think I've spent enough time monkeying around with this. In the past I've had hard disks that I thought were going bad that would pass the manufacturer diags just fine (until they died anyway), so short of rebuilding my 2 TB disk from scratch I think it's not fixable in its current state.


----------



## unitron

Just remember, a hard drive that's physically fine can have the software on it get scrambled by something beyond its control and not be to blame.

Unfortunately the semi-closed nature of TiVo software makes that a situation recovering from which is difficult or impossible.

If you're convinced the drive itself is bad, feel free to send it to me.


----------



## sbourgeo

I suppose some sort of software driven corruption isn't out of the question. I'll probably just bite the bullet and repeat the 7 hour copy/expand on the 2 TB drive at some point. If it boots up cleanly, I'll keep it in my stash of drives as a spare.


----------



## ciper

When running the JMFS tools from the command line and running MFSadd it assumes the device to be /dev/Hdb even though the command line argument correctly used /dev/Sda

There is something hardcoded incorrectly in one of the scripts. "/root/mfslayout.sh /dev/sda /dev/sdb" works properly BUT the space adding script assumes that you want /dev/sda /dev/Hdb and fails.

To see why I am asking please click here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=9372955


----------



## unitron

ciper said:


> When running the JMFS tools from the command line and running MFSadd it assumes the device to be /dev/Hdb even though the command line argument correctly used /dev/Sda
> 
> There is something hardcoded incorrectly in one of the scripts. "/root/mfslayout.sh /dev/sda /dev/sdb" works properly BUT the space adding script assumes that you want /dev/sda /dev/Hdb and fails.
> 
> To see why I am asking please click here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=9372955


Is that supposed to be a valid link?

There's a thread on here with over 3 million pages?


----------



## koolhand

OK, I'm a newbie to the forum, but have skimmed this thread and the Premiere thread on upgrading HDD. I am trying to upgrade a Tivo HD to 2TB drive. Currently has a 400GB WD HDD that I upgraded 3-4 years ago w/ winmfs(?), and has been working fine, just space is filled up constantly and we have to delete old contents frequently.

Got the 2TB WD EURS drive, trying to do the copy entire 400GB drive over to the 2TB drive and keep contents. In middle of the "copying" process using JMFS boot CD image that I made from the links. I saw people post that copying should take like 8-12 hours for 500GB to 1TB drives? 

But I'm coming up on 24 hours! Started at noon yesterday and it's still going. I do have a 5+ years old computer (Athlon 1.2 GHz, ?8GB ram) desktop that has internal SATA PCI controller that I bought for this upgrade, but it shouldn't take this long!

Question is, is the msg on the screen an indicator of progress of the copy? For example, it has on my screen: ipos: 73270 kB, opos: 73270, errsize: 209 kb, errors: 1, current rate 712 B/s, average rate 863 B/s, Copying non-tried blocks....

At this rate (haven't done the math) but it's going to take forever if it's at 73270 kB and there is 400 GB of stuff.. 

Should I just abort, delete non-essential programs, start over? SATA PCI controller is "generic", figure it's SATA speed should be set, don't think it's that. My slow computer? Setting on the new drive? I read about the EURS drive, I just left all the jumpers in place and didn't mess w/ it.


----------



## unitron

koolhand said:


> OK, I'm a newbie to the forum, but have skimmed this thread and the Premiere thread on upgrading HDD. I am trying to upgrade a Tivo HD to 2TB drive. Currently has a 400GB WD HDD that I upgraded 3-4 years ago w/ winmfs(?), and has been working fine, just space is filled up constantly and we have to delete old contents frequently.
> 
> Got the 2TB WD EURS drive, trying to do the copy entire 400GB drive over to the 2TB drive and keep contents. In middle of the "copying" process using JMFS boot CD image that I made from the links. I saw people post that copying should take like 8-12 hours for 500GB to 1TB drives?
> 
> But I'm coming up on 24 hours! Started at noon yesterday and it's still going. I do have a 5+ years old computer (Athlon 1.2 GHz, ?8GB ram) desktop that has internal SATA PCI controller that I bought for this upgrade, but it shouldn't take this long!
> 
> Question is, is the msg on the screen an indicator of progress of the copy? For example, it has on my screen: ipos: 73270 kB, opos: 73270, errsize: 209 kb, errors: 1, current rate 712 B/s, average rate 863 B/s, Copying non-tried blocks....
> 
> At this rate (haven't done the math) but it's going to take forever if it's at 73270 kB and there is 400 GB of stuff..
> 
> Should I just abort, delete non-essential programs, start over? SATA PCI controller is "generic", figure it's SATA speed should be set, don't think it's that. My slow computer? Setting on the new drive? I read about the EURS drive, I just left all the jumpers in place and didn't mess w/ it.


The jumper block on the EURS is to the right of the power and data connectors and should probably not have any jumpers installed as it comes from the factory.

Are there any installed on yours?

If so, which pins?


----------



## koolhand

No jumpers installed. Sticker on drive says ready to use if not doing the winXP Adv formatting stuff, etc, so I left everything alone. 

Just an update: I aborted the copy process after 27 hrs. Ran WD diagnostic on the 2TB drive in DOS and it failed the short test w/ msg: Missing Test Tracks, error/status code: 0229. Called WD tech support and they couldn't tell me the problem or what the code meant. They offered to RMA the drive. I said I'll call them back tomorrow to take them up on the offer. Wanted to try a few more things tonight. 

So I got back into winXP on my old desktop, did WD diag windows version this time and it was able to past the SMART test, ran the short WD diag test and it passed. In process of doing the long scan now. Weird. Could be my SATA controller and/or SATA cables. When I first hooked up drive, computer wouldn't boot gave long beeps. Thought it was a loose connection, so changed out data cable, moved to another PCI slot, then was able to boot, SATA controller recognized drive, JMFS recognized the drive (only after a Retry to scan system again). Problem started as copy process took forever w/ 1 error msg that popped up right away. 

So I guess it's either the SATA controller/cable and/or drive itself. Will find out in the morning what the long scan says...

In the meantime I rehooked old 400GB to Tivo HD and just deleted half my kid's cartoon episodes so that when the 2TB drive issue is resolved there won't be that many programs to copy over.


----------



## unitron

koolhand said:


> No jumpers installed. Sticker on drive says ready to use if not doing the winXP Adv formatting stuff, etc, so I left everything alone.
> 
> Just an update: I aborted the copy process after 27 hrs. Ran WD diagnostic on the 2TB drive in DOS and it failed the short test w/ msg: Missing Test Tracks, error/status code: 0229. Called WD tech support and they couldn't tell me the problem or what the code meant. They offered to RMA the drive. I said I'll call them back tomorrow to take them up on the offer. Wanted to try a few more things tonight.
> 
> So I got back into winXP on my old desktop, did WD diag windows version this time and it was able to past the SMART test, ran the short WD diag test and it passed. In process of doing the long scan now. Weird. Could be my SATA controller and/or SATA cables. When I first hooked up drive, computer wouldn't boot gave long beeps. Thought it was a loose connection, so changed out data cable, moved to another PCI slot, then was able to boot, SATA controller recognized drive, JMFS recognized the drive (only after a Retry to scan system again). Problem started as copy process took forever w/ 1 error msg that popped up right away.
> 
> So I guess it's either the SATA controller/cable and/or drive itself. Will find out in the morning what the long scan says...


Run the WD diags on the 400GB as well before proceeding.


----------



## koolhand

Another update for anyone still interested in my upgrade drama:
Long story short, it was the SATA controller, as I suspected all along. Long WD diag in windows on the 2TB stopped after 1 hr, stuck on a sector. Ordered another controller from Amazon that came in a retail box (thank goodness for Prime shipping, ordered Thurs before noon, got it next day Fri around noon, was supposed to take 2 days!). Popped the thing in, used the SATA cables that came w/ it, ran a few tests. BTW, the 1st SATA controller somehow read my 400GB old drive and new 2TB drives as both being 2TB, and while trying to do a quick erase the night before, w/ the diag prog, accidentally erased my Tivo HD 400GB drive instead, GASP! Lucky I was able to dig out my original 160GB drive, was able to revive things by popping that into TIVO, let it update to latest, then pop back into desktop w/ new SATA controller, restored the 400GB drive, then restored to 2TB drive from the 160GB original. Did the expand and supersized per instruction and I'm all set! Approx 318 hours of HD! A process that should have taken me like 5-6 hrs took about 3-4 days to troubleshoot. Lost all my programs I had originally wanted to save, but a clean start. After what I went through, I don't think I had the patience to wait another 6-7 hrs to copy all that over... Didn't have the patience to do the long diag test on the 2TB drive, either it was going to work or not and i was going to RMA the drive anyway if it didn't work, gave it a go and the 2TB is in it's new home in the Tivo HD recording away at some reprogrammed Season Passes..

Lesson learned: don't get el cheapo generic SATA controller from Ebay when your data (and time) matters!


----------



## unitron

koolhand said:


> Another update for anyone still interested in my upgrade drama:
> Long story short, it was the SATA controller, as I suspected all along. Long WD diag in windows on the 2TB stopped after 1 hr, stuck on a sector. Ordered another controller from Amazon that came in a retail box (thank goodness for Prime shipping, ordered Thurs before noon, got it next day Fri around noon, was supposed to take 2 days!). Popped the thing in, used the SATA cables that came w/ it, ran a few tests. BTW, the 1st SATA controller somehow read my 400GB old drive and new 2TB drives as both being 2TB, and while trying to do a quick erase the night before, w/ the diag prog, accidentally erased my Tivo HD 400GB drive instead, GASP! Lucky I was able to dig out my original 160GB drive, was able to revive things by popping that into TIVO, let it update to latest, then pop back into desktop w/ new SATA controller, restored the 400GB drive, then restored to 2TB drive from the 160GB original. Did the expand and supersized per instruction and I'm all set! Approx 318 hours of HD! A process that should have taken me like 5-6 hrs took about 3-4 days to troubleshoot. Lost all my programs I had originally wanted to save, but a clean start. After what I went through, I don't think I had the patience to wait another 6-7 hrs to copy all that over... Didn't have the patience to do the long diag test on the 2TB drive, either it was going to work or not and i was going to RMA the drive anyway if it didn't work, gave it a go and the 2TB is in it's new home in the Tivo HD recording away at some reprogrammed Season Passes..
> 
> Lesson learned: don't get el cheapo generic SATA controller from Ebay when your data (and time) matters!


And always triple check which drive is which and if possible don't have any drives attached that don't absolutely have to be at that time.


----------



## InFromTheCold

The "new" HD is a WD20EARS that I actually bought quite some time ago, but never opened or tested until today. (So no chance of RMA.) It's from the crop of March 2011. I was planning to re-upgrade my THD, which I upgraded to 1TB a couple of years ago, to 2TB. At that time I used 2 SATA-USB controllers connected to a WinXP desktop with WinMFS, and while it took a long time to transfer all our old programs, ultimately the process worked great. 

I tried hooking up the new HDD to my W7 desktop using one of my old controllers, a no-name I think I got on eBay. It didn't spin up, nor did the WD Lifeguard (or whatever it's called) diagnostic program detect it. Used the same connectors and swapped in the original Tivo drive, and that one spun up just fine, and showed in the drive list on the WDL as well. I tried the same thing using the other SATA controller, that one is a Sabrent, and got the same results. The 2T WD drive does not spin, though it is hot to the touch in one section of the motherboard.

I then dragged out my dusty, old XP desktop, went through the same process, and got the same results. Is there some different setting, or WD Align software I'm supposed to be using, or am I just out of pocket for a bum HDD? Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.


----------



## L David Matheny

InFromTheCold said:


> The "new" HD is a WD20EARS that I actually bought quite some time ago, but never opened or tested until today. (So no chance of RMA.) It's from the crop of March 2011. I was planning to re-upgrade my THD, which I upgraded to 1TB a couple of years ago, to 2TB. At that time I used 2 SATA-USB controllers connected to a WinXP desktop with WinMFS, and while it took a long time to transfer all our old programs, ultimately the process worked great.
> 
> I tried hooking up the new HDD to my W7 desktop using one of my old controllers, a no-name I think I got on eBay. It didn't spin up, nor did the WD Lifeguard (or whatever it's called) diagnostic program detect it. Used the same connectors and swapped in the original Tivo drive, and that one spun up just fine, and showed in the drive list on the WDL as well. I tried the same thing using the other SATA controller, that one is a Sabrent, and got the same results. The 2T WD drive does not spin, though it is hot to the touch in one section of the motherboard.
> 
> I then dragged out my dusty, old XP desktop, went through the same process, and got the same results. Is there some different setting, or WD Align software I'm supposed to be using, or am I just out of pocket for a bum HDD? Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.


It's always a good idea to test every new drive using the manufacturer's diagnostic program as soon as you get it. But unless you've had it a really long time, it may have a manufacturer's warranty still in effect. Look on their web site to see if there's a place to enter your serial number and check the warranty status.


----------



## InFromTheCold

L David Matheny said:


> It's always a good idea to test every new drive using the manufacturer's diagnostic program as soon as you get it. But unless you've had it a really long time, it may have a manufacturer's warranty still in effect. Look on their web site to see if there's a place to enter your serial number and check the warranty status.


True, it's a good idea, but of course it didn't happen this time. The good news is, your suggestion to check the warranty was GENIUS! Thank you for that suggestion! It's still under limited warranty until sometime next year. Limited warranty means I can send it in for replacement. I really can't believe it! No idea what that will cost me, but certainly less than I spent to buy the drive, so it's all good.

That said, if anyone is of the opinion that I should fiddle around with it further before I send it back to WD, please chime in.


----------



## lessd

InFromTheCold said:


> True, it's a good idea, but of course it didn't happen this time. The good news is, your suggestion to check the warranty was GENIUS! Thank you for that suggestion! It's still under limited warranty until sometime next year. Limited warranty means I can send it in for replacement. I really can't believe it! No idea what that will cost me, but certainly less than I spent to buy the drive, so it's all good.
> 
> That said, if anyone is of the opinion that I should fiddle around with it further before I send it back to WD, please chime in.


It will only cost you the shipping, WD does a good job on RMAs, just pack it correctly, or better yet use the advance replacement (if they still offer it) and use the box the new drive came in to ship the old drive back.
The one thing you have to watch out for now is sometimes you may get back a bigger drive than you sent, may be ok unless the drive is over 2Tb, happen to me, so I sold it on E-Bay and got enough money to purchase a 2Tb drive from Amazon.com.


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## unitron

InFromTheCold said:


> True, it's a good idea, but of course it didn't happen this time. The good news is, your suggestion to check the warranty was GENIUS! Thank you for that suggestion! It's still under limited warranty until sometime next year. Limited warranty means I can send it in for replacement. I really can't believe it! No idea what that will cost me, but certainly less than I spent to buy the drive, so it's all good.
> 
> That said, if anyone is of the opinion that I should fiddle around with it further before I send it back to WD, please chime in.


Assuming none of the motherboards are GigaByte brand, can you open up either PC and connect the drive straight to a SATA port and the PC's power supply?

If so, before you do, make yourself a copy of the Ultimate Boot CD and get back to me here.

Those USB/SATA dealies might not be able to handle anything bigger than a 1 TB. Their power supplies might not be as good as they were when new.

The good news is that, having used WinMFS before, you probably don't have a 16th Apple Free partition on the 1TB drive and can successfully use jmfs to copy it to a 2TB (with all settings and recordings intact) and then expand into the extra Terabyte.

Of course if WD were willing to swap you a WD20EURS for that EARS (get it in writing beforehand), I'd say take that deal and be done with it.


----------



## InFromTheCold

lessd said:


> It will only cost you the shipping, WD does a good job on RMAs, just pack it correctly, or better yet use the advance replacement (if they still offer it) and use the box the new drive came in to ship the old drive back.
> The one thing you have to watch out for now is sometimes you may get back a bigger drive than you sent, may be ok unless the drive is over 2Tb, happen to me, so I sold it on E-Bay and got enough money to purchase a 2Tb drive from Amazon.com.


Well, I'd be happy to have a resolution like that! Or even just an even return for another suitable 2T. I've still got all the packing materials, so I'm good to go on that score.



unitron said:


> Assuming none of the motherboards are GigaByte brand, can you open up either PC and connect the drive straight to a SATA port and the PC's power supply?
> 
> If so, before you do, make yourself a copy of the Ultimate Boot CD and get back to me here.
> 
> Those USB/SATA dealies might not be able to handle anything bigger than a 1 TB. Their power supplies might not be as good as they were when new.
> 
> The good news is that, having used WinMFS before, you probably don't have a 16th Apple Free partition on the 1TB drive and can successfully use jmfs to copy it to a 2TB (with all settings and recordings intact) and then expand into the extra Terabyte.
> 
> Of course if WD were willing to swap you a WD20EURS for that EARS (get it in writing beforehand), I'd say take that deal and be done with it.


The idea of returning it is sounding more and more appealing. It occurs to me that I've already devoted quite a lot of time to this, and not gotten very far. I probably should cut my losses, and just see about getting an exchange. Meaning, I think I'm running out of enthusiasm for poking around inside the PCs. (Yeah, I know, I asked for advice about whether to keep fiddling, and now I'm backing away. What can I say, I think I just came to my senses!) If I get a new infusion of energy and decide to give it a whirl, I'll definitely post back here.

It's worrisome to think that the usb-sata controllers may be limited to 1T. The packaging on the Sabrent says any device, and doesn't state any limitation as to size, but of course 2T was probably fairly unheard of when this controller was manufactured. I would have thought that properly powered, the disc would at least spin, but then again I know little to nothing about such matters, I'm just conjecturing. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, I guess.

BTW, that's welcome news about maybe not having that 16th partition to contend with.

Thanks to both of you for the help.


----------



## ggieseke

Send it back. Just make sure that you read ALL of the instructions on how to package and ship it. For instance, you have to write the RMA number on at least 3 sides of the box.

I have used WD's advanced replacement option several times and they never screwed up my credit card or anything. :up: There will also be a link in the RMA instructions so that you can buy and print your own UPS shipping label. Easy as 3.14159265359...


----------



## InFromTheCold

ggieseke said:


> Send it back. Just make sure that you read ALL of the instructions on how to package and ship it. For instance, you have to write the RMA number on at least 3 sides of the box.
> 
> I have used WD's advanced replacement option several times and they never screwed up my credit card or anything. :up: There will also be a link in the RMA instructions so that you can buy and print your own UPS shipping label. Easy as 3.14159265359...


----------



## InFromTheCold

So, I got the replacement drive from WD today, and it's a 20EAR*X*. According to the experience of this poster, the EARX does not permit AAM adjustments. Not too happy right now!

BTW, the CS rep I spoke to re: the RMA assured me that I would be getting the EARS, because they had plenty of them in stock. Sigh.


----------



## lessd

InFromTheCold said:


> So, I got the replacement drive from WD today, and it's a 20EAR*X*. According to the experience of this poster, the EARX does not permit AAM adjustments. Not too happy right now!
> 
> BTW, the CS rep I spoke to re: the RMA assured me that I would be getting the EARS, because they had plenty of them in stock. Sigh.


You
do not need AAM adj, the drive makes little noise as is.


----------



## InFromTheCold

lessd said:


> You
> do not need AAM adj, the drive makes little noise as is.


Great! (Sure hope my sharp-eared SO agrees...) I'll see if I can carve out the time to make the swap this weekend.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr

I've got a bit of a delima. I've got a 1TB drive that was in my TiVo HD that appears to be going bad. I purchased a WD20EURS 2TB drive to replace it. 

The drives were connected to my laptop with USB/SATA adapters. I do not have a computer with any SATA connections.

I was able to copy the 1TB drive to the 2TB drive with jmfs. 

I want to expand the drive to use the full 2TB but cannot get winMFS to recognize the drive.

Nor have I been able to use wdidle3 on the WD20EURS. (using UBCD)

Can anyone let me know what I need to do to get winMFS and wdidle3 to recognize the drive?


----------



## unitron

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I've got a bit of a delima. I've got a 1TB drive that was in my TiVo HD that appears to be going bad. I purchased a WD20EURS 2TB drive to replace it.
> 
> The drives were connected to my laptop with USB/SATA adapters. I do not have a computer with any SATA connections.
> 
> I was able to copy the 1TB drive to the 2TB drive with jmfs.
> 
> I want to expand the drive to use the full 2TB but cannot get winMFS to recognize the drive.
> 
> Nor have I been able to use wdidle3 on the WD20EURS. (using UBCD)
> 
> Can anyone let me know what I need to do to get winMFS and wdidle3 to recognize the drive?


You probably don't need to disable Intellipark on the WD20EURS, they seem to be coming from WD without it enabled in the first place these days.

I don't understand why WinMFS can't see the 2TB. Can it see the 1TB?

Since you used jmfs to copy to the 2TB, is there any reason not to use it to expand the 2TB?


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr

unitron said:


> You probably don't need to disable Intellipark on the WD20EURS, they seem to be coming from WD without it enabled in the first place these days.
> 
> I don't understand why WinMFS can't see the 2TB. Can it see the 1TB?
> 
> Since you used jmfs to copy to the 2TB, is there any reason not to use it to expand the 2TB?


WinMFS does not show either drive. I assumed it was because they were connected via USB.

According to the instructions in the first post of this thread, it is recommended to not use jmfs since it was made for the TiVo Premiere box. Has that changed?


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr

Ok, got it working. I ran winMFS as Administrator and the USB attached drives showed up! All that trouble and it wasn't necessary.

From the thread I linked in my last post,


> If you already did the "turn on supersize" step with your source drive, you do not need to do it with the new drive as well - that setting will have been copied over already.


Duh!

Now I need to put the new drive in the TiVo and see if everything went as it should have.


----------



## lpwcomp

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Ok, got it working. I ran winMFS as Administrator and the USB attached drives showed up! All that trouble and it wasn't necessary.
> 
> From the thread I linked in my last post,
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Now I need to put the new drive in the TiVo and see if everything went as it should have.


Um, you do know that "expand" and "supersize" are two different things? I only ask since you didn't mention doing a JMFS expand, just a copy.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr

lpwcomp said:


> Um, you do know that "expand" and "supersize" are two different things? I only ask since you didn't mention doing a JMFS expand, just a copy.


Actually, I did not. That's what I get for not paying closer attention.


----------



## InFromTheCold

InFromTheCold said:


> So, I got the replacement drive from WD today, and it's a 20EAR*X*. According to the experience of this poster, the EARX does not permit AAM adjustments. Not too happy right now!
> 
> BTW, the CS rep I spoke to re: the RMA assured me that I would be getting the EARS, because they had plenty of them in stock. Sigh.


Haven't had a chance to test the new EARX drive yet, but in case anyone else is interested in getting one, I see that it's available today from newegg for $85 w/ rebate, free shipping. Doesn't appear to be a refurb.


----------



## RedWingsRULE!

InFromTheCold said:


> Haven't had a chance to test the new EARX drive yet, ...


 You guys ROCK!!! TiVoHD with InstantCaked 1TB to new EAR*X* 2TB by following directions here. 1. JMFS copy, 2. MFS recreate partition 15, 3. JMFS expand, 4. WDIdle3 /D, 5. WinMFS Supersize. BOOM: 142 became 318 hours. To be safe, I did put into THD before 3 and 5 but it never said it needed to unpair. Thanks again all!!!  :up:


----------



## tivobw

Awesome work by spike (WinMFS/MFSLive) and Comer (jmfs)! :up::up:

Here's a little history..

I had originally upgraded my TivoHD from the stock unit (160GB HD, 20 HD hours) to a 1TB drive (Western Digital WD10EACS - http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Green-WD10EACS/dp/B000X4PJG8) back in October of 2007. This gave me 131 HD hours. My wife was so pleased! I used WinMFS and it worked great, no issues whatsoever.

Fast forward to two weekends ago. We had noticed for the last several weeks that it seemed we were getting skipping video and pixellation during recorded video playback on the Tivo.. did some research and though inconclusive, looked like folks were suggesting to others encountering this problem to replace the hard drive to fix the issue. We had been close to filling up the 1TB drive anyway, so I knew it was probably a good time to upgrade.

Did some searching through the forums and found the awesome post by Tivoitis on using jmfs with TivoHD, to upgrade a TivoHD to 2TB: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179. I carefully reviewed the thread and pages and pages of follow-ups.

After thinking about it for a day, I ordered another Western Digital drive (this time a 2TB WD20EURS - http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8). I figured the previous WD lasted 5+ years, so why not give them another chance? Plus, I'm still not sure if the hard drive was failing, but it just seemed like a good thing to try (plus, I was dying to know if I could upgrade the TivoHD to 2TB!).

The drive arrived via overnight shipping (though it took 3 days to process my order.. darn macmall.com!) so I received it this past weekend. The upgrade story is familiar; all I did was follow the document, essentially:

Burned copy of JMFS live v1.04 onto CD, as well as wdidle3.exe onto another boot CD
Removed the old 1TB drive from my TivoHD
Hooked up the 1TB drive from my TivoHD to a spare SATA port on my Windows 7 PC and booted up.. ran WinMFS as Admin and reviewed the partition table on the TivoHD hard drive. Rejoiced when I saw only 15 partitions! This meant no Apple_free partition, and jmfs would be able to add a 16th partition to utilize the other 1TB of my 2TB drive. (Thanks for the tip, teiland - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8649609#post8649609)
While I had the 1TB Tivo HD connected in WinMFS, I took a truncated backup, just in case I would need it down the road.
I powered down the Windows PC, removed my PC hard drive, Hooked up the TivoHD 1TB drive and the new WD20EURS 2TB drive to my PC
Booted into JMFS; copied data from old 1TB to new 2TB drive (no errors during the copy, hmm! So maybe my drive wasn't the cause of the skipping video???) This process took a while, probably more than 6 hours and less than 8 (I fell asleep and woke up and it was done copying). I had to do this so that I could preserve all of our old recordings.
Selected the menu option in JMFS to expand the new hard drive.. happened quickly.
Swapped out the old 1TB TivoHD and hooked up my Windows HD to first SATA port, then booted into Windows 7 and ran WinMFS as Administrator
Turned on SuperSize using WinMFS on the 2TB new Tivo HD
Since I had the drive hooked up in WinMFS already, took a truncated backup of my 2TB Tivo HD just in case I might need it in the future.
Shut down PC, booted up using wdidle boot CD and entered "wdidle3 /S300" to disable Intellipark. Received confirmation message that Idle3 timer had been "enabled and set to 300 seconds." (I got that wdidle command from this link: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160)
Installed the new 2TB WD20EURS into the TivoHD. Agonizing wait while it booted up - probably took at least 5 minutes! But once it did.. BAM! 318 HD hours!!!

Weird thing I encountered: With the wdidle boot CD, I couldn't use the keyboard on one of my PCs. I suppose it didn't have USB drivers or whatever.. and that PC didn't have a PS/2 connector for a keyboard. I ended up having to use another PC (newer model), and the wdidle boot CD worked fine with that - was able to use the keyboard no problem. Odd.

Other than that, no issues. The TivoHD has been working great for the last several days. No issues and everything looks like it went well. No more skipping video, either... so perhaps it was the hard drive? I dunno. I think it's wonderful that the last 1TB hard drive gave us over 5 years of really great service, and it was kind enough not to fail 100%. This allowed us to gracefully upgrade to the 2TB!

Thanks a lot everyone! Maybe when this drive fills up 3TB will be possible? (Probably only with a hacked Tivo kernel!) I figure maybe by then (3 years from now?) I'll finally upgrade to a Tivo Premiere, then put the TivoHD in a bedroom upstairs.


----------



## unitron

tivobw said:


> Awesome work by spike (WinMFS/MFSLive) and Comer (jmfs)! :up::up:
> 
> Here's a little history..
> 
> I had originally upgraded my TivoHD from the stock unit (160GB HD, 20 HD hours) to a 1TB drive (Western Digital WD10EACS - http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Green-WD10EACS/dp/B000X4PJG8) back in October of 2007. This gave me 131 HD hours. My wife was so pleased! I used WinMFS and it worked great, no issues whatsoever.
> 
> Fast forward to two weekends ago. We had noticed for the last several weeks that it seemed we were getting skipping video and pixellation during recorded video playback on the Tivo.. did some research and though inconclusive, looked like folks were suggesting to others encountering this problem to replace the hard drive to fix the issue. We had been close to filling up the 1TB drive anyway, so I knew it was probably a good time to upgrade.
> 
> Did some searching through the forums and found the awesome post by Tivoitis on using jmfs with TivoHD, to upgrade a TivoHD to 2TB: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179. I carefully reviewed the thread and pages and pages of follow-ups.
> 
> After thinking about it for a day, I ordered another Western Digital drive (this time a 2TB WD20EURS - http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8). I figured the previous WD lasted 5+ years, so why not give them another chance? Plus, I'm still not sure if the hard drive was failing, but it just seemed like a good thing to try (plus, I was dying to know if I could upgrade the TivoHD to 2TB!).
> 
> The drive arrived via overnight shipping (though it took 3 days to process my order.. darn macmall.com!) so I received it this past weekend. The upgrade story is familiar; all I did was follow the document, essentially:
> 
> Burned copy of JMFS live v1.04 onto CD, as well as wdidle3.exe onto another boot CD
> Removed the old 1TB drive from my TivoHD
> Hooked up the 1TB drive from my TivoHD to a spare SATA port on my Windows 7 PC and booted up.. ran WinMFS as Admin and reviewed the partition table on the TivoHD hard drive. Rejoiced when I saw only 15 partitions! This meant no Apple_free partition, and jmfs would be able to add a 16th partition to utilize the other 1TB of my 2TB drive. (Thanks for the tip, teiland - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8649609#post8649609)
> While I had the 1TB Tivo HD connected in WinMFS, I took a truncated backup, just in case I would need it down the road.
> I powered down the Windows PC, removed my PC hard drive, Hooked up the TivoHD 1TB drive and the new WD20EURS 2TB drive to my PC
> Booted into JMFS; copied data from old 1TB to new 2TB drive (no errors during the copy, hmm! So maybe my drive wasn't the cause of the skipping video???) This process took a while, probably more than 6 hours and less than 8 (I fell asleep and woke up and it was done copying). I had to do this so that I could preserve all of our old recordings.
> Selected the menu option in JMFS to expand the new hard drive.. happened quickly.
> Swapped out the old 1TB TivoHD and hooked up my Windows HD to first SATA port, then booted into Windows 7 and ran WinMFS as Administrator
> Turned on SuperSize using WinMFS on the 2TB new Tivo HD
> Since I had the drive hooked up in WinMFS already, took a truncated backup of my 2TB Tivo HD just in case I might need it in the future.
> Shut down PC, booted up using wdidle boot CD and entered "wdidle3 /S300" to disable Intellipark. Received confirmation message that Idle3 timer had been "enabled and set to 300 seconds." (I got that wdidle command from this link: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160)
> Installed the new 2TB WD20EURS into the TivoHD. Agonizing wait while it booted up - probably took at least 5 minutes! But once it did.. BAM! 318 HD hours!!!
> 
> Weird thing I encountered: With the wdidle boot CD, I couldn't use the keyboard on one of my PCs. I suppose it didn't have USB drivers or whatever.. and that PC didn't have a PS/2 connector for a keyboard. I ended up having to use another PC (newer model), and the wdidle boot CD worked fine with that - was able to use the keyboard no problem. Odd.
> 
> Other than that, no issues. The TivoHD has been working great for the last several days. No issues and everything looks like it went well. No more skipping video, either... so perhaps it was the hard drive? I dunno. I think it's wonderful that the last 1TB hard drive gave us over 5 years of really great service, and it was kind enough not to fail 100%. This allowed us to gracefully upgrade to the 2TB!
> 
> Thanks a lot everyone! Maybe when this drive fills up 3TB will be possible? (Probably only with a hacked Tivo kernel!) I figure maybe by then (3 years from now?) I'll finally upgrade to a Tivo Premiere, then put the TivoHD in a bedroom upstairs.


I think 2TB is going to be the upper limit for S3s from now on.

You should take that 1TB and run Western Digital's diagnostic long test on it.

And disable Intellipark on it as well, if you haven't already.


----------



## dav1129

I don't own a TiVo but after familiarising myself with one I think I just might!

What I am doing is trying to help someone else.

A friend solicited my opinion and recommendation after the external drive for their TiVo gave up the ghost and telling me that they could neither buy another TiVo or another Expander as TiVo is ecept for customer support for existing devices, leaving Australia.

Not being familiar with at all with TiVo and having only ever had Topfield PVRs myself but hearing good things about them, I recommended they buy 1 TB Humax 7500T and an IceTV EPG subscription which they did. But I find out now that his partner doesn't much like the Humax and perhaps rightly, prefers her old TiVo.

So after looking into it I told them the whole buying only TiVo badged PVR Expanders from PVR thing seemed to me to be a revenue thing and unnecessary and volunteered to upgrade the 160GB drive in the TiVo.

Screenshot of Original drive System Information










So they shipped the Tivo from where they reside in Australia to where I reside in Australia, and I have so far, successfully backed up and copied the original drive to a 2TB hard drive Seagate, which I had on hand,expanded and super-sized it using WinMFS.

During the first attempt to expand the newly formatted 2TB drive I of course, prudently answered '*YES*' to limiting the new drive to 1TB + the original 160GB when WinMFS told me that the new drives capacity was larger than a 'stock' TiVo could handle.










The result was 'up to 200 hours of HD and 400 hours for SD' and everything so far, working fine.

Screenshot of System Information after 2TB limited to 1TB + 160GB:










BUT not content with wasting the drive space and having read that it should be possible for a 2TB drive to utilise its full capacity, I repeated the procedure but *THIS *time answered '*NO*' to limiting the new drive to 1TB + the original 160GB when WinMFS told me that the new drives capacity was larger than a 'stock' TiVo could handle.










The result was 'up to 400 hours of HD and 800 hours for SD' and everything so far, working fine.

Screenshot of System Information after 2TB *not *limited to 1TB + 160GB:










But what is meant by 'up to'. I have seen that a 2TB should produce an HD recording capacity of about 317 hours?

Can anyone tell me what I:


 Have actually accomplished in either instance; and
 Should check in terms of settings for the Seagate drive before returning the TiVo to my friends?

PS I tried and could use the LINUX Boot CD method but the I only have notebooks and one SATA to USB adapter.

Look forward to and appreciate any replies.


----------



## lessd

I don't think many of us on TCF have had any experience with a TCD663160 so I don't know if we can help, we can only guess.


----------



## dav1129

lessd said:


> I don't think many of us on TCF have had any experience with a TCD663160 so I don't know if we can help, we can only guess.


Okay, does this sound like an Australian specific model?

Anyway if everything seems to working I guess I could be happy and return the TiVo to my friends.

I just wish I knew what System Information means when it indicates 'up to 400 hours HD and up to 800 hours SD'

Less than 400, more than 200 hours or 317 hours as I have seen documented in a few YouTube videos?

So care to take a guess or would it be as good as mine?


----------



## unitron

Maybe digital shows are smaller "down under".

Unlike the knives.


----------



## dav1129

unitron said:


> Maybe digital shows are smaller "down under".
> 
> Unlike the knives.


No, except for local content and BBC stuff :up: much the same rubbish as in the US ....

But knives?


----------



## unitron

dav1129 said:


> No, except for local content and BBC stuff :up: much the same rubbish as in the US ....
> 
> But knives?


Never saw "Crocodile Dundee"?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLS3RGesIFQ[/media]


----------



## philhu

Is this Tivo 2 drives? The 160 + 2tb? That would explain the 400 hours hd.

It always says 'up to', since it is based upon standard usage. Different cable companies set their channel bandwidths different. The higher the bandwidth, the less that can be recorded.

On Fios here, some channels have bandwidths at 10-13 Mb/s, while Comcast sets quite a few to 2-5mb/s. You do the math


----------



## ggieseke

philhu said:


> Is this Tivo 2 drives? The 160 + 2tb? That would explain the 400 hours hd.


A TCD663160 is an Australian 160GB Series 3.


----------



## lpwcomp

Australia uses DVB for digital rather than ATSC. That probably explains the 400 vs. 317. All TiVo capacity numbers are "up to" as actual capacity will depend on compression. What I find more interesting is the SD ( which includes TiVo compressed recordings from analog sources) is only twice that of the HD number. In the US, it is usually about 9x. Is PAL less compressible than NTSC?


----------



## dav1129

unitron said:


> Never saw "Crocodile Dundee"?


Oh yes, I just didn't make the connection.

That's not a knife *THIS *is a knife............


----------



## dav1129

philhu said:


> Is this Tivo 2 drives?





ggieseke said:


> A TCD663160 is an Australian 160GB Series 3.


Correct, This TCD663160 is I think a series 3 TiVo



philhu said:


> The 160 + 2tb? That would explain the 400 hours HD. It always says 'up to', since it is based upon standard usage. Different cable companies set their channel bandwidths different. The higher the bandwidth, the less that can be recorded.


Maybe, but would that rationale then also apply to free-to-air digital TV? Either way I guess the 'up to' accounts then also for a mix both SD and HD channels.

But how come I have seen YouTube DIY installations where the System Information for new 2TB drive shows a precise 317 hours?


----------



## dav1129

lpwcomp said:


> Australia uses DVB for digital rather than ATSC. That probably explains the 400 vs. 317. All TiVo capacity numbers are "up to" as actual capacity will depend on compression.


Thanks for this reply/answer/suggestion. Yes we use DVB.



lpwcomp said:


> What I find more interesting is the SD (which includes TiVo compressed recordings from analogue sources) is only twice that of the HD number. In the US, it is usually about 9x. Is PAL less compressible than NTSC?


No idea on that one.

But the *BIG* unanswered question with regard to _creating a partition larger than 1TB and being too large for a stock TiVo to handle',_ however remains given I first answered *YES* to limiting the partition to 1TB and ended up with 'up to 200 hours of HD recording but _*then *_tried selecting *NO* and ended up with 'up to 400 hours'. In any other application I can imagine that the logical outcome to answering *'NO'* to such a question, is that the process would not continue.










So what does this mean? Have I sent my friends an unknown quantity, a ticking time bomb?

With regard to an earlier assertion of mine, sorry, my bad: I only *thought * I had seen a precise figure. On closer inspection I see *in fact, *that those YouTube DIY also show US System Information with 'up to' 317 hours.


----------



## unitron

Whether a Series 3 platform can handle a partition larger than 1.2TB depends on whether it has the most recent version of the TiVo operating system software on it.

Here in the states that's 11.0k (plus some more numbers that vary depending on exactly which S3 it is).

If you're upgrading an old one, do the copy but don't expand, let it connect to the mothership until it updates itself and then expand.


----------



## harry99

Bad run of luck - after replacing an old S2 with a Premiere 4 last month (taking advantage of the deal for a Premiere 4 with MoCA adapter, and then lifetime on one of my 1TB HDs for $99, the other one of my 1TB HDs died two days later with what appears to be a bad power supply. After some discusssions on the forums, decided to buy a new Premiere instead of fixing the power supply. Also got another MoCA adapter, and all seemed to be working fine. 

Now the 1TB HD with the lifetime is making a lot of disk noise - so I thought I'd simply transfer the content I want to save (pretty quick with MoCA) to one of the Premieres, and replace the noisy 1TB disk drive with the now unused one from the HD with the bad power supply.

After thinking about it, guess I'm not sure if that will work or not. Any idea if it will just run, or do I have to go through a transfer from one TB disk to the other, or what? I obviously don't want to lose the lifetime, and thought I would keep the old HD around for parts, just didn't think I would need it so quickly - strange to have both HDs with problems in two weeks.

Would appreciate any help before I go down a path that I can't recover from.

Thanks.


----------



## unitron

harry99 said:


> Bad run of luck - after replacing an old S2 with a Premiere 4 last month (taking advantage of the deal for a Premiere 4 with MoCA adapter, and then lifetime on one of my 1TB HDs for $99, the other one of my 1TB HDs died two days later with what appears to be a bad power supply. After some discusssions on the forums, decided to buy a new Premiere instead of fixing the power supply. Also got another MoCA adapter, and all seemed to be working fine.
> 
> Now the 1TB HD with the lifetime is making a lot of disk noise - so I thought I'd simply transfer the content I want to save (pretty quick with MoCA) to one of the Premieres, and replace the noisy 1TB disk drive with the now unused one from the HD with the bad power supply.
> 
> After thinking about it, guess I'm not sure if that will work or not. Any idea if it will just run, or do I have to go through a transfer from one TB disk to the other, or what? I obviously don't want to lose the lifetime, and thought I would keep the old HD around for parts, just didn't think I would need it so quickly - strange to have both HDs with problems in two weeks.
> 
> Would appreciate any help before I go down a path that I can't recover from.
> 
> Thanks.


If you're certain that the non-PLS'ed S3 HD has a bad power supply but a good hard drive (and that there's nothing on that drive that you want to save), and you're certain that the hard drive on the PLS'ed S3 HD is going bad and that it's not noise from the fan going bad, then the best thing would probably be to "Xerox" the 1TB from the lifetimed S3 HD to the other 1TB.

Got any Linux based boot cd's handy? Like maybe the MFS Live cd v1.4?


----------



## harry99

Any idea what would happen if I just plugged in the "good" drive in place of the "bad" drive? Would it hurt anything or just not work?

I don't have a boot CD, can you point me to a source? 

Since 1TB copy takes so long, maybe I should just go to a 2TB drive, since the good and bad drive are the same age. I have the original 160GB drives, although not sure which goes with which S3 HD. With MoCA, the streaming to the Premiere works so well from the 1TB HD that I will probably just use the HD as the repository instead of expanding the new Premieres for now.

WIll have to read back through the forum to find the correct way to go from either the original 160GB or the expanded 1TB drive to a 2TB drive. It gets confusing with so many posts on the subject.


----------



## unitron

harry99 said:


> Any idea what would happen if I just plugged in the "good" drive in place of the "bad" drive? Would it hurt anything or just not work?
> 
> I don't have a boot CD, can you point me to a source?
> 
> Since 1TB copy takes so long, maybe I should just go to a 2TB drive, since the good and bad drive are the same age. I have the original 160GB drives, although not sure which goes with which S3 HD. With MoCA, the streaming to the Premiere works so well from the 1TB HD that I will probably just use the HD as the repository instead of expanding the new Premieres for now.
> 
> WIll have to read back through the forum to find the correct way to go from either the original 160GB or the expanded 1TB drive to a 2TB drive. It gets confusing with so many posts on the subject.


If you're going to go with 2TB drive, recommend the WD20EURS when they're on sale for $100, and you should do that copy with WinMFS probably.

But first you should run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test on whatever winds up being your target drive, even if it's fresh from the factory.


----------



## dav1129

unitron said:


> Whether a Series 3 platform can handle a partition larger than 1.2TB depends on whether it has the most recent version of the TiVo operating system software on it.
> 
> Here in the states that's 11.0k (plus some more numbers that vary depending on exactly which S3 it is).
> 
> If you're upgrading an old one, do the copy but don't expand, let it connect to the mothership until it updates itself and then expand.


Thanks for the reply and information.

Too late to try anything different as I have shipped their TiVo back to friends who live in a city across Australia.

Given however the OS version shown below would explain then why a 2TB drive worked for me during testing and before resetting and should now work for my friends right?


----------



## unitron

dav1129 said:


> Thanks for the reply and information.
> 
> Too late to try anything different as I have shipped their TiVo back to friends who live in a city across Australia.
> 
> Given however the OS version shown below would explain then why a 2TB drive worked for me during testing and before resetting and should now work for my friends right?


It showed 30 HD hours with the original 160GB drive, right?

Divide 30 by 160 to get hours per GB and then multiply that by 2,000.

If that's in the ballpark of what it shows for HD now, I'd say that the "embiggening" was a success.


----------



## jmbach

dav1129 said:


> I don't own a TiVo but after familiarising myself with one I think I just might!
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I:
> 
> 
> Have actually accomplished in either instance; and
> Should check in terms of settings for the Seagate drive before returning the TiVo to my friends?
> 
> PS I tried and could use the LINUX Boot CD method but the I only have notebooks and one SATA to USB adapter.
> 
> Look forward to and appreciate any replies.


A couple of observations. 
Australian version of TiVo's are apparently different. In what way I am not sure but apparently enough that there is a WinMFS version specifically made for Australian units. Since it boots up completely, you have apparently accomplished your task. 
The difference in sizes could be how the unit calculates storage or more than likely there are MFS system bitmaps that Australian units do not have which allows more inherit storage space for videos. Similar to when we supersize our drives. When we supersize our drives the video storage space goes from 287 to 318. We take away space reserved for "advertisement" and give it to video recording space.
Normally there are no settings on Seagate drives to change. The only thing you have to watch out for is buying some Seagate drives off of some auction site that are specifically made for DVR's. Some of these Seagate Pipeline HD drives are from or made for OEM units and they might have a modified firmware in them that will not allow it to boot in a TiVo.

Jim


----------



## RedWingsRULE!

jmbach said:


> The only thing you have to watch out for is buying some Seagate drives off of some auction site that are specifically made for DVR's. Some of these Seagate Pipeline HD drives are from or made for OEM units and they might have a modified firmware in them that will not allow it to boot in a TiVo.


Thanks for that additional info.

I am one of the first that I have seen to use the WD EAR*X* and so far have had no issues with it. 

Not sure which format the Aussie version uses, but the storage space difference might be due to NTSC vs PAL.


----------



## lessd

RedWingsRULE! said:


> Thanks for that additional info.
> 
> I am one of the first that I have seen to use the WD EAR*X* and so far have had no issues with it.
> 
> Not sure which format the Aussie version uses, but the storage space difference might be due to NTSC vs PAL.


I have been using the WD EARX for years without problems.


----------



## RedWingsRULE!

lessd said:


> I have been using the WD EARX for years without problems.


Thanks! Good to know I'm not on the bleeding edge alone.


----------



## InFromTheCold

lessd said:


> I have been using the WD EARX for years without problems.


Is Intellipark an issue with this drive?


----------



## jmbach

RedWingsRULE! said:


> Not sure which format the Aussie version uses, but the storage space difference might be due to NTSC vs PAL.


Very true. Then UK TiVos should be similar. Wonder if anybody has info on UK tivo video storage space for us to compare.


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> Very true. Then UK TiVos should be similar. Wonder if anybody has info on UK tivo video storage space for us to compare.


There are two UK threads where you could ask.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> There are two UK threads where you could ask.


Very good. . Might do that at some point. Thanks.


----------



## lessd

InFromTheCold said:


> Is Intellipark an issue with this drive?


At one time there was, the newer ones are set to disable or 8 seconds, neither are a problem for the TiVo.


----------



## InFromTheCold

lessd said:


> At one time there was, the newer ones are set to disable or 8 seconds, neither are a problem for the TiVo.


Good to know, thanks.


----------



## RedWingsRULE!

InFromTheCold said:


> Is Intellipark an issue with this drive?


WDIdle3 /D
This sets it to disabled. (Actually sets it to 5 minutes.)


----------



## lpwcomp

RedWingsRULE! said:


> WDIdle3 /D
> This sets it to disabled. (Actually sets it to 5 minutes.)


Using the latest version, wdidle3 /D actually disabled it.


----------



## InFromTheCold

RedWingsRULE! said:


> WDIdle3 /D
> This sets it to disabled. (Actually sets it to 5 minutes.)


Judging from lessd's comment, this step does not seem to be necessary for the newer EARX drives.


----------



## lessd

InFromTheCold said:


> Judging from lessd's comment, this step does not seem to be necessary for the newer EARX drives.


The 5 drives I have used from Jan 2013 on have not needed the wdidle3 set, but who knows what WD will do in the future, the drives were all dated from Sept to Dec 2012.
If anybody gets a WD drive dated after Sept 2012 that does not have wdidle3 disabled or set to 8000Ms (8 Sec) let us know.


----------



## nyjack

lessd said:


> The 5 drives I have used from Jan 2013 on have not needed the wdidle3 set, but who knows what WD will do in the future, the drives were all dated from Sept to Dec 2012.
> If anybody gets a WD drive dated after Sept 2012 that does not have wdidle3 disabled or set to 8000Ms (8 Sec) let us know.


Sorry for newbie question but what is wdidle3? I used MFSTools on the drive in upsized to on my TiVo HD.


----------



## lpwcomp

nyjack said:


> Sorry for newbie question but what is wdidle3? I used MFSTools on the drive in upsized to on my TiVo HD.


It's the Western Digital utility used to adjust or disable the "Intellipark" setting on some WD drives. Some WD drives are set by default to park the heads after a short period of inactivity. This causes soft boots of TiVos to fail, requiring a power cycle to get it back up.


----------



## nyjack

lpwcomp said:


> It's the Western Digital utility used to adjust or disable the "Intellipark" setting on some WD drives. Some WD drives are set by default to park the heads after a short period of inactivity. This causes soft boots of TiVos to fail, requiring a power cycle to get it back up.


Thank you!


----------



## unitron

nyjack said:


> Sorry for newbie question but what is wdidle3? I used MFSTools on the drive in upsized to on my TiVo HD.


It is a utility written by WD which adjust the timing period used by the Intellipark feature found on some of it's Caviar Green line of hard drives.

After a certain period of inactivity Intellipark spins down the drive and parks the heads. This is supposed to reduce electricity consumption and heat generation.

But the TiVo drive is never inactive when the TiVo is plugged in.

Except when it's re-booting itself, a so-called "soft boot".

It goes into a soft boot, quits calling on the drive for anything for a few seconds, drive spins down.

TiVo then gets far enough into boot to call on drive, drive not ready, which causes TiVo to re-reboot to try again.

In the meantime, the drive, having gotten the nudge from the TiVo, wakes up and answers, but by that time the TiVo has started re-booting again and isn't answering the answer, so the drive goes to sleep again, which is how the TiVo finds it when it gets far enough into the boot process to call on the drive.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

wdidle3 let's you make timing period of inactivity before the drive goes to sleep longer, so that it's still awake when the TiVo gets far enough into the re-boot to call on it again, or on some models it'll let you disable Intellipark altogether.

Although setting the period for 300 seconds (5 minutes) is pretty much the same thing as disabling it where use in a TiVo is concerned, so either will work.


----------



## lpwcomp

Unitron,

Not to be pedantic, but I don't believe that the Intellipark feature spins down the drive, just parks the heads and turns off the read/write electronics. In fact, the main purpose of this feature is to reduce aerodynamic drag so it requires less power to keep the drive spinning.









Since spinning up is one of the more stressful activities for a drive, _*nobody*_ would think doing it that often was a good idea.

This has the best explanation I have seen.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Unitron,
> 
> Not to be pedantic, but I don't believe that the Intellipark feature spins down the drive, just parks the heads and turns off the read/write electronics. In fact, the main purpose of this feature is to reduce aerodynamic drag so it requires less power to keep the drive spinning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since spinning up is one of the more stressful activities for a drive, _*nobody*_ would think doing it that often was a good idea.
> 
> This has the best explanation I have seen.


As greatly as it pains me to admit it, there exists the possibility that you are right and I am...

...

...

slightly not quite as right.



Good catch.


----------



## lpwcomp

"I may not always be right but by god I ain't *never* wrong!"
Brother Dave.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> "I may not always be right but by god I ain't *never* wrong!"
> Brother Dave.


Brother Dave Gardner?


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Brother Dave Gardner?


Got it in one.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Got it in one.


"The only reason people live up North, dear hearts, is they have jobs up there."

and that exhausts my memory of Brother Dave material which is anywhere near to PC.

I wish there had been a way to get him and the UK's Dave Allen on the same stage in conversation for a week or so.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> "The only reason people live up North, dear hearts, is they have jobs up there."
> 
> and that exhausts my memory of Brother Dave material which is anywhere near to PC.


Yeah, non-PC is a kind description of a lot (most?) of his material, but how could you forget this one:

"Man cannot live by bread alone. He must have peanut butter."

He was a fond memory of my childhood of <redacted> years ago (we had several of his albums) and around 2004 or so I bought some of the CDs.

For more urbane comedic entertainment, we also had several "Shelley Berman" albums.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Yeah, non-PC is a kind description of a lot (most?) of his material, but how could you forget this one:
> 
> "Man cannot live by bread alone. He must have peanut butter."
> 
> He was a fond memory of my childhood of <redacted> years ago (we had several of his albums) and around 2004 or so I bought some of the CDs.
> 
> For more urbane comedic entertainment, we also had several "Shelley Berman" albums.


How could I have forgotten that one, indeed.

I must plead a splitting sinus headache and advancing years.

Although something would have probably triggered my memory of that line somewhere down the road a few weeks or months from now.


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## unixguy

I just upgraded my TiVo Premier:

(1) Hard drive used: 2TB WD20EURS
(2) Thermaltake BlacX Dock.

I have a Sony Vaio with an 1 eSata port (that also takes USB)

Initially I tried to use USB but when I booted into the JMFS I was unable to see the drives. Instead I connected a USB hub to my eSata port. After that I was able to see both drives without any issues.

The total time for the upgrade was about 5.5 hours with no errors. 

The only issue I had was using WDIDLE I was not able to see the updated tivo drive. But my drive was not Jan 2013 .. from my understanding this was just an issue for drives prior to Jan 2013.

After the upgrade the tivo works fine without any issues. First time bootup seemed to hang sightly but continued to the tivo menu. Also the first time I went to the menu it was a little slow .. it seems that was just the first time. 

After a few minutes of usage response time seems ok and the menu does not hang.


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## lpwcomp

unixguy said:


> The only issue I had was using WDIDLE I was not able to see the updated tivo drive.


That's because it modifies the drives firmware so must be connected via SATA. Won't work over USB.



unixguy said:


> But my drive was not Jan 2013 .. from my understanding this was just an issue for drives prior to Jan 2013.


Have you verified that the TiVo will soft boot with no problems?


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## unixguy

lpwcomp said:


> That's because it modifies the drives firmware so must be connected via SATA. Won't work over USB.
> 
> Have you verified that the TiVo will soft boot with no problems?


I soft booted successfully the only issue I saw was that right before the TiVo intro cartoon the screen hangs for about 3-5 seconds.

If I need to I can hook the drive up directly via sata connection and run the util.


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## unitron

Intellipark is more of a which model issue than a when was it made issue, I think.


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## lessd

unixguy said:


> I soft booted successfully the only issue I saw was that right before the TiVo intro cartoon the screen hangs for about 3-5 seconds.
> 
> If I need to I can hook the drive up directly via sata connection and run the util.


That common when going into the HDUI for the first time, not any Hard drive problem.


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## pdecrett

I just used JMFS Live (v1.04), per the first post in this thread, to replace a 1TB previously upgraded WinMFS drive in my Tivo HD. The old drive even stopped booting eventually (periodic reboots during shows before that). 

The JMFS Live software copied settings and recordings to a new WD20EURS 2TB drive. It booted right up in the Tivo.

I did the disk copy. About 12 hours to copy 1TB of data and try to repair my bad sectors. The bad drive really slowed things down.

I did the expansion (not supersize). JMFS reported something like 288 hours. But in my Tivo, I am getting, 314 or 318 (cannot remember).

That was it. I didn't check acoustics. I didn't check the idle timeout (soft reboots work no problem). My drive was manufactured in January 2013.

Thanks for the help, everyone, particularly to Tivoitis (first post) and comer (software) - at least it seems.

- Paul


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## unitron

pdecrett said:


> I just used JMFS Live (v1.04), per the first post in this thread, to replace a 1TB previously upgraded WinMFS drive in my Tivo HD. The old drive even stopped booting eventually (periodic reboots during shows before that).
> 
> The JMFS Live software copied settings and recordings to a new WD20EURS 2TB drive. It booted right up in the Tivo.
> 
> I did the disk copy. About 12 hours to copy 1TB of data and try to repair my bad sectors. The bad drive really slowed things down.
> 
> I did the expansion (not supersize). JMFS reported something like 288 hours. But in my Tivo, I am getting, 314 or 318 (cannot remember).
> 
> That was it. I didn't check acoustics. I didn't check the idle timeout (soft reboots work no problem). My drive was manufactured in January 2013.
> 
> Thanks for the help, everyone, particularly to Tivoitis (first post) and comer (software) - at least it seems.
> 
> - Paul


I'm happy for you that it worked out, however future readers might like to know that in your situation, provided the TiVo had already been upgraded to version 11.0k of the software (almost a certainty if you've had it operating lately), one could do the copying and then use WinMFS to just enlarge the previously added 3rd MFS Media partition, even if the stock drive had been upgraded to the 1TB with the MFS Live cd and there was a small Apple Free partition left at the end (which would defeat jmfs).

And that's true for all of the S3's, even the original OLED panel with the clock one.

The tricky thing is what to use to do the copy if the source drive has any problems.

But once you've got a good, working copy on the new target drive, WinMFS can expand into the rest of the space and 11.0k will let the TiVo use all of it, even though that last partition is going to be something like 1.6TB in size if you went with a 2TB target drive.


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## tgmii

Does someone have an Tivo HD image? My Tivo HD suddenly failed, so no backup. 

Thanks!


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## drhankz

tgmii said:


> Does someone have an Tivo HD image? My Tivo HD suddenly failed, so no backup.
> 
> Thanks!


OH NO

Answer YES - I have two of them but I have NO CLUE how
you could get them - THEY are LARGE.

People do sell them online


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## ggieseke

tgmii said:


> Does someone have an Tivo HD image? My Tivo HD suddenly failed, so no backup.
> 
> Thanks!


What's the model number?


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## unitron

tgmii said:


> Does someone have an Tivo HD image? My Tivo HD suddenly failed, so no backup.
> 
> Thanks!


First, make sure the problem is the drive and not the power supply or the motherboard.

When you say HD, do you mean a TCD652160?

I can provide an image for that model (and a few others).


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## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> I'm happy for you that it worked out, however future readers might like to know that in your situation, provided the TiVo had already been upgraded to version 11.0k of the software (almost a certainty if you've had it operating lately), one could do the copying and then use WinMFS to just enlarge the previously added 3rd MFS Media partition, even if the stock drive had been upgraded to the 1TB with the MFS Live cd and there was a small Apple Free partition left at the end (which would defeat jmfs).
> And that's true for all of the S3's, even the original OLED panel with the clock one.
> The tricky thing is what to use to do the copy if the source drive has any problems.
> But once you've got a good, working copy on the new target drive, WinMFS can expand into the rest of the space and 11.0k will let the TiVo use all of it, even though that last partition is going to be something like 1.6TB in size if you went with a 2TB target drive.


It was actually 11.0h that began the support (there was no 11.0i version, to avoid confusion). It got put in because WD was already launching DVR expansion drives that would have not worked without the change. So WD deserves some thanks for pretty much forcing TiVo's hand, by getting those out so quickly. I cannot elaborate further, as I am bound by a NDA that is stricter than the first two rules of Fight Club, and I'd rather get beat up by Tyler Durden, than face the broad scope of penalties the other can inflict.

Oddly enough, DVR_DUDE, ships 2TB drives for the HD & Premiere, that come with the prior-to-current factory-installed images, which are several major release revision numbers old, like version 9.___ for the HD and 14.___ for the Premiere. The Premiere upgrade also maps out like JMFS does, with one huge partition at the end of all the factory ones... I haven't been able to analyze the HD partition structure. The software version matter is explained as being necessary to insure that the user doesn't become unable to receive future upgrades. I don't buy most of what his scare-tactic invoking and myth-perpetuating advertising says. However, he keeps an unbelievably great customer satisfaction rating, which is why I bought one of each drive, out of curiosity, and then decided to keep them as they were, and use GNU dd_rescue, from the command line, to clone them to other new 2TB drives for testing. So far, so good. It's only annoying if you lose all your season passes and programs, the Season Passes can't be retrieved from a simple TiVo service connection, like you can if you don't require a software update first.

I have NOT had good luck (TiVo uptime before a GSOD reboot loop), just tacking one huge partition onto the end of a stock TiVo HD drive with JMFS. This issue has been reported time and time again by others, all over the forums, but it's seldom followed by much, if any, response. My best guess is that it all depends on the parameters of how the unit is used. If you have 100+ Season Passes, and the TiVo is always very busy, and never manually rebooted, it doesn't seem to take long for a TiVo HD to turn from "successfully upgraded" to "stuck in GSOD reboot loop". I had the same issues with every 2TB THD upgrade method before JMFS, as well.


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## dahacker

unitron said:


> First, make sure the problem is the drive and not the power supply or the motherboard.
> 
> When you say HD, do you mean a TCD652160?
> 
> I can provide an image for that model (and a few others).


My TCD652160 is acting up too. It was rebooting often, can still get through the whole boot process, but ends up stuck at a 480 gray screen with no text within a day.

The drive did pass all the Tivo SMART diagnostics, so I'm not 100% that it is the drive, but replacing the drive to me seems like an easier first step than trying to rule out other issues.

I don't have an image for the TCD652160 and can't trust the original drive. Any pointers on downloading a clean image would be very helpful.

Never mind. I got a unit off of craigslist for $35, the hard drive transplant was successful. Worst of it was re-activating the cablecard.


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## nooneuknow

I just received a shipment of six WD20EADS-00S2B0 HARCHV2AA 2TB Western Digital hard drives, as replacements for some degraded/defective ones I sent back. They're factory recertified replacements, still sealed.

PM me if you'd like to make me an offer. If you'd like, I could pre-image them for either TiVo HD, or 2-tuner Premiere. I don't need them, because I already bought EURS AV-GP replacements, when Newegg had them on special.

I know some don't like/trust 4K drives, so I figured these 512-byte sector ones may be of interest to some of you.


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## ncbill

So, to clarify, if my stock TivoHD is already running the latest software (11.0k?)
I can just use winmfs (not jmfs) to backup a truncated image (I don't care about shows) and then restore to a 2TB WD AV-GP EURS?

If so, do I just turn on supersize for the restored drive to get the full 318 hours?

(still confused - IIRC, winmfs by itself will only expand to 1.126GB even on a 2TB drive for the TivoHD)


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## ggieseke

Using jmfs to expand it should get you 99% of the available drive space. Supersizing it just gets the last few hundred meg that TiVo normally dedicates to the gold star ads.


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## lpwcomp

ggieseke said:


> Using jmfs to expand it should get you 99% of the available drive space. Supersizing it just gets the last few hundred meg that TiVo normally dedicates to the gold star ads.


It's far more than "the last few hundred meg". The default is about 10% of the drive. Supersizing reduces it quite a bit. On a 2TB drive, that means @17 additional HD hours of recording capacity.


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## jmbach

ncbill said:


> So, to clarify, if my stock TivoHD is already running the latest software (11.0k?)
> I can just use winmfs (not jmfs) to backup a truncated image (I don't care about shows) and then restore to a 2TB WD AV-GP EURS?
> 
> If so, do I just turn on supersize for the restored drive to get the full 318 hours?
> 
> (still confused - IIRC, winmfs by itself will only expand to 1.126GB even on a 2TB drive for the TivoHD)


Yes. After restoring the image do not expand. Then go to MFSADD and expand followed by supersize.
Just make sure you let WinMFS expand past 1TB when it asks you.


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## ggieseke

My bad. If we're truly talking about 17 hours of HD to record 20 minutes of infomercials I stand corrected.


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## unitron

ncbill said:


> So, to clarify, if my stock TivoHD is already running the latest software (11.0k?)
> I can just use winmfs (not jmfs) to backup a truncated image (I don't care about shows) and then restore to a 2TB WD AV-GP EURS?
> 
> If so, do I just turn on supersize for the restored drive to get the full 318 hours?
> 
> *(still confused - IIRC, winmfs by itself will only expand to 1.126GB even on a 2TB drive for the TivoHD)*


Perhaps there was a time when it wouldn't go beyond 1.2, but now it just makes you check (or uncheck) an extra box.

Use WinMFS to mfscopy your current drive, shows, settings, and all, to the 20EURS.

When it finishes, it'll say something about extra space (unless your current drive is also a 2TB), and do you want to expand.

Tell it no.

I don't know why you need to do it that way, but that's the way that seems to work.

After you tell it no, select the new drive, the 20EURS, and click on mfsinfo just to make sure everything looks alright.

The partition map will probably show a large Apple Free partition at the end.

That's okay.

Close mfsinfo, and then click on mfsadd.

You should get the "do you want to use a partition bigger than 1.2TB" warning--tell it yes you do want to.

If you'd like to err on the side of caution, you could copy the current drive to the new one with WinMFS, check the new one with mfsinfo, then close out WinMFS, shut down the computer, disconnect the current TiVo drive, leaving just the new 2TB one hooked up, and start the PC and go back into Windows and WinMFS and then do the mfsadd.

Apparently it's the having 11.0k that lets the TiVo use a bigger than 1.2TB partition.

You can use that same method, running WinMFS, to stick a 2TB in an original S3 (the OLED version that jmfs couldn't do anything for), as long as it's running 11.0k


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## ncbill

if i don't expand the new drive after mfscopy then winmfs sees the 2tb drive as a 160GB tivo 'series 2 or 3' drive, and mfsadd doesn't work.

ill try the mfslive cd next.


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## jmbach

ncbill said:


> if i don't expand the new drive after mfscopy then winmfs sees the 2tb drive as a 160GB tivo 'series 2 or 3' drive, and mfsadd doesn't work.
> 
> ill try the mfslive cd next.


You can try to expand after copy. In my experience it hangs when I have tried that. Normally what happens is that a large Apple_Free partition is made taking up all the space after you copy and tell it not to expand. When you then go into MFSAdd, it converts the Apple_Free partition to two partitions - MFS app and MFS media. Could you post the MFSInfo output. Might be able to see what is going on. Also shut down WinMFS and only connect the 2TB drive and restart WinMFS. Make sure it is not confusing your original 160gb drive and your 2TB drive.


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## ncbill

Got it to work!

Used mfscopy, wandered away, after copy finished WindowsXP downloaded an update and restarted automatically.

Relaunched winmfs, made sure supersize was on, and opened mfsadd.

Chose "no" when asked if I wanted to limit it to 1TB.

Got all 318 HD hours on the 2TB drive.

Thanks again!



jmbach said:


> You can try to expand after copy. In my experience it hangs when I have tried that. Normally what happens is that a large Apple_Free partition is made taking up all the space after you copy and tell it not to expand. When you then go into MFSAdd, it converts the Apple_Free partition to two partitions - MFS app and MFS media. Could you post the MFSInfo output. Might be able to see what is going on. Also shut down WinMFS and only connect the 2TB drive and restart WinMFS. Make sure it is not confusing your original 160gb drive and your 2TB drive.


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## tiassa

Just to add another datapoint (and resurrect this thread from the dead), I upgraded my other Tivo HD using JMFS as I did here:http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179&page=8
the 500gig My DVR expander had gone south (or a least things got better when I divorced the drive), and the original 160gig was OK for a while but also started to get flakey (recordings would get weird, and sometimes wouldn't transfer) so I snagged another 20EURS and upgraded it as well. So far so good (the new drive has been in about a week.


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## stux

unitron said:


> Perhaps there was a time when it wouldn't go beyond 1.2, but now it just makes you check (or uncheck) an extra box.
> 
> Use WinMFS to mfscopy your current drive, shows, settings, and all, to the 20EURS.
> 
> When it finishes, it'll say something about extra space (unless your current drive is also a 2TB), and do you want to expand.
> 
> Tell it no.
> 
> I don't know why you need to do it that way, but that's the way that seems to work.
> 
> After you tell it no, select the new drive, the 20EURS, and click on mfsinfo just to make sure everything looks alright.
> 
> The partition map will probably show a large Apple Free partition at the end.
> 
> That's okay.
> 
> Close mfsinfo, and then click on mfsadd.
> 
> You should get the "do you want to use a partition bigger than 1.2TB" warning--tell it yes you do want to.
> 
> If you'd like to err on the side of caution, you could copy the current drive to the new one with WinMFS, check the new one with mfsinfo, then close out WinMFS, shut down the computer, disconnect the current TiVo drive, leaving just the new 2TB one hooked up, and start the PC and go back into Windows and WinMFS and then do the mfsadd.
> 
> Apparently it's the having 11.0k that lets the TiVo use a bigger than 1.2TB partition.
> 
> You can use that same method, running WinMFS, to stick a 2TB in an original S3 (the OLED version that jmfs couldn't do anything for), as long as it's running 11.0k


Just providing another datapoint, this time with an Australian perspective.

Short story. Just upgraded from a 1TB to a 2TB on a TiVo TCD663160 (Australian TiVo HD).

Used WinMFS Beta9_3g which is apparently the Aussie compatible version.

Just loaded up the 1TB, copied it to the 2TB, with 1000MB swap, then said no to expand, then MFSAdd and extended the partion.

Seems good. I think.

The long store is my original July 2008 TiVo 160 was originally upgraded to 1TB with WinMFS. Then when we could finally add a second TB as an external I did that too.

Later the HDMI port went on the fritz. Was still able to get a signal by tickling it just so...

About 3 months ago, the HDMI port went totally. Fell back to using the Component, it was not perfect... would flicker.

3 weeks ago AV and component both died.

Bought a replacement second hand unit with good HDMI. This was an August 2008 TiVo.

Tried just connecting up the original 1TB internal harddrive (what the hell), well you know how that ended... C&DE, and then separate the external... and you know what. it seemed to work.

Still getting random reboots...

Swapped powersupplies... still getting random reboots...

Ordered the 2TB, I decided I wanted to increase the swap size as before I managed to get the TiVo in a situation where it wouldn't update the guide info when I had 275+ season passes and was only able to resolve it by removing season passes back below 100.

Anyway, truncated backups crashed it... Would just continually ask for the external to be removed.

Eventually decided eff-it, and started up JMFS. It was copying over 1TB of blank recordings, since I only had a few hours recorded by this stage, but having all the season passes makes it feel like my TiVo 

After it had done 55GB... I decided... eff this... I'm going to just do the WinMFS copy.

Which only took about 5-10 minutes, and then the expand.

Seems to be working now...

So, in conclusion, is it okay to take a 160GB->1TB, and expand it to 2TB while increasing the swap with WinMFS these days?


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## unitron

It turns out that you can upgrade a Series 1, 2, or 3 original drive to a larger one, which adds a 3rd MFS pair of partitions, and then if you decide you want an even larger drive (limit seems to be 1TB for S1s and S2s, and 2TB for S3s running a version of the TiVo operating software from within about the last 5 or so years, 11.0h here in the states), WinMFS will do it by copying the bigger drive to the even bigger than that drive, and then expand not by adding another MFS pair (which exceeds the allowable limit of 16 partitions per drive), but by expanding that 3rd MFS Media partition.

Which I find very clever on spike's part to have written it that way, and for which I'm grateful.

And that means that it's not necessary to use jmfs on an S3 at all.


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