# Amazon/TiVo deal



## huey009 (Nov 30, 2004)

I am probably reposting this, but I think this is a pretty big deal. Sorry if this is/has already been discussed.

TiVo, Amazon offer video downloads that can be viewed on TV sets
From Associated Press
5:45 PM PST, February 6, 2007 


SEATTLE -- Amazon.com Inc. and TiVo Inc. have jumped into the digital download wars  with a twist: The new partners will beam movies and TV shows directly to their customers' living rooms.

The companies said a test version of their new service, called Amazon Unbox on TiVo, will begin Wednesday with an unspecified number of TiVo customers.

The full service is expected to debut later this year, available for the 1.5 million TiVo digital video recorders with broadband Internet capability. Officials refused to give a target date for the service's launch.

Thousands of movies from several major studios and TV shows from CBS and Fox will be available, said Bill Carr, Amazon.com's vice president of digital media. Both companies expect agreements with more studios and networks in the future.

''We think this is a breakthrough,'' Carr said. ''We're providing people with the simplest way to actually play back their digital content on a television set.''

Unbox on TiVo joins a rash of new digital download services from retailers and entertainment companies, and builds on the Unbox service that Amazon.com launched last year.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. entered the market today, when it unveiled an online movie download store. Other competitors include Movielink, which is owned by five studios, and CinemaNow.

Most online download services, however, leave content essentially trapped on the customer's computer. TiVo and Amazon.com's major advantage is their ability to deliver movies and TV shows directly to the TiVo box, observers said.

''Frankly, nobody else has the solution that allows you get something over an Internet connection and watch it with the click of the button,'' said James McQuivey, principal analyst at Forrester Research Inc. ''If it's that easy, then they'll be the first. They'll be able to plant their flag.''

Apple TV, the new set-top, video-streaming box coming this month from Apple Inc., should be a top rival. Like Unbox on TiVo, Apple TV is designed to move digital content from a user's computer to their TV set.

But Unbox on TiVo may have an advantage in the customers who already have broadband-ready TiVo hardware in their homes. While a new Apple TV box will cost around $300, the only additional cost for a TiVo user will be the price of a movie or TV show over the existing Unbox download service.

TV episodes will sell for $1.99, with most movies priced between $9.99 and $14.99, the companies said. Movie rentals will start at $1.99. No extra hardware purchases are required, and there will be no additional subscription fees, the companies said.

Although the technology has yet to catch on broadly with consumers, Internet downloading is expected to generate about $4 billion in annual sales in five years, compared with an estimated $27 billion from DVD rentals and sales, according to Adams Media Research.

TiVo and Amazon.com are betting that their ability to integrate downloads with the existing choices on a TiVo video recorder will give them a distinct advantage in grabbing a share of the market.

''I suspect we will see a parade of similar kinds of devices over the next several years,'' said Larry Gerbrandt, general manager of Nielsen Analytics.

Shoppers who want to downloaded a video program through the new service will place the orders through the existing Unbox video download service, company officials said.

Videos may be sent to a TiVo box or a computer and can also be used on portable devices. Videos also don't have to be stored permanently on a customer's hard drive  they can be downloaded again from Unbox after being purchased.

Initially, the companies will offer videos from CBS, Fox, Lionsgate, Paramount Pictures, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Warner Bros.

Unbox videos presently come with copyright protection based on Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system. Those sold through the TiVo service will use a different technology to allow them to play on the TiVo's Linux-based system, officials said.

TiVo had previously announced a downloading partnership with Netflix, the mail-order movie rental service, but that deal eventually fell apart.

TiVo Chief Executive Tom Rogers said TiVo decided to go with Amazon.com in its new venture because the online retailer had a large customer network and a large catalog of distribution rights, which Netflix couldn't deliver. 


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

THis is news to me! Excellent!


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

link please. I do not see this online.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

As a Mac user to whom Amazon's (what I hear, crappy) Unbox service is currently unavailable, I'm intrigued by this development.

If it lets me bypass the computer and download directly to the TiVo, straight from my couch, I'm doubly interested.

Of course, I'm sure it won't work on my new Series 3 just yet.

/taps fingers


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

this might be a hoax, because I do not see it online anywhere.


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## smc (Feb 1, 2007)

I found it by searching on tivo amazon at news google com. Sorry I can't post a link yet. The latimes site has it posted


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

here you go link: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-020607amazontivo,0,6108661.story?coll=la-home-headlines


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

hmmm, too little too late for me


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> hmmm, too little too late for me


For who? Amazon or Tivo?
You're crazy
Xbox 360
Apple TV
None of them own this market yet. This battle has just begun. I think this is great for Tivo and Amazon.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Reading the article leaves me with questions. 

Will I need to "purchase" ahead of time on a PC, and have Amazon "send" the video to the TiVo?

Or will I be able to purchase completely from my couch?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

seattlewendell said:


> For who? Amazon or Tivo?
> You're crazy
> Xbox 360
> Apple TV
> Non of them own this market yet. This battle has just begun. I think this is great for Tivo and Amazon.


just seeing how long it would take for someone to come back at that one  

Edit: sorry had a little General Tao's chicken last might, made me a little feisty I think


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> hmmm, too little too late for me





seattlewendell said:


> For who? Amazon or Tivo?
> You're crazy


Perhaps for "MikeMar." (he did say "too late _for me_")

As in, he's already fallen out of love and/or defected from TiVoland?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Fofer said:


> Perhaps for "MikeMar." (he did say "too late _for me_")
> 
> As in, he's already fallen out of love and/or defected from TiVoland?


well I probably won't use it for numerous reasons

1-have directv hd
2-I tivo everything I watch on my 2 series 2's and directv HD
3-I bitorrent any shows I miss
4-Netflix or buy all dvd's I want


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I do think it's really cool and hope it works out very well for tivo though!


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> 4-Netflix or buy all dvd's I want


Internet download is intended to take over your Netflix expenses.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I wonder what quality video/sound they will be delivering. As an S3 user, I'm getting used to High Def. HD movies will be big-ass files to download.


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## billyecho (Sep 17, 2001)

Digital content coming to TVs
Posted 2/6/2007 9:45 PM ET
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY

NEW YORK  TiVo and Amazon will unveil Wednesday a service that lets customers buy and download movies and TV shows to their TiVo DVR for viewing on their TVs  one-upping rivals offering such downloads only to computers.

The companies say they will test "Amazon Unbox on TiVo" in a few hundred homes for an undisclosed period. Then they will offer it to any of the 600,000 TiVo subscribers who have their DVR connected to a broadband home network.

"We're taking this world of digital video content that is now available via broadband to PC users and putting it smack in the middle of the living room to make it a comfortable television viewing experience," says TiVo CEO Tom Rogers.

Wal-Mart, CinemaNow, Movielink and other providers require customers to store downloads on a computer. With some effort and additional equipment the video could be displayed on a TV but it is primarily for viewing on a PC.

Those who get a version of TiVo through DirecTV  about 63% of the TiVo's 4.4 million subscriptions  won't be able to use the service. The same will be true for Comcast customers when the cable company offers a TiVo service in its cable DVRs, expected later this year.

CBS, Fox, Lionsgate, Paramount, Universal and Warner Bros. have agreed to let Amazon offer productions to TiVo users. Rogers says Sony "has indicated they're looking to be part of this at time of launch."

Disney doesn't offer films on Unbox, but may soon.

"We have a strong relationship with Disney," says Bill Carr, Amazon's vice president of digital media. "It hasn't been worked out yet, but it will be."

Amazon offers downloads of recent movies for about $14.99 and episodes of TV shows for $1.99. Those prices are slightly higher than Wal-Mart's new download service: For example, Superman Returns costs $14.88 there.

But Carr says that "Amazon is known for being very competitive."

How the service will work: TiVo users will go to Amazon.com to sign up and designate where they want movies and TV shows they buy to be sent. Unbox will send purchases to two TiVos, two Windows PCs or one of each. The PC then can load the video on up to two portable devices using Windows copy protection (no iPods). Buyers can burn DVD copies for backup, but they won't play in a DVD player. The Unbox service also keeps a record of purchases and will send backup copies if needed.

Macintosh users won't be able to put Unbox films on their Mac, but can download them to their TiVos.

Carr says it will take about an hour to download a typical movie with high-speed Internet service.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2007-02-06-tivo-amazon_x.htm?POE=TECISVA


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

USA Today said:


> Disney doesn't offer films on Unbox, but may soon.


I doubt it, what with Disney/Pixar's deal with Apple and iTunes. Same reason Disney films aren't available with NetFlix's download service.


USA Today said:


> Macintosh users won't be able to put Unbox films on their Mac, but can download them to their TiVos.


Excellent! :up:


USA Today said:


> Amazon offers downloads of recent movies for about $14.99 and episodes of TV shows for $1.99.


Not so excellent. $15 a movie? I'd rather wait for the DVD.

Oh well, it's a start.


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## mearlus (Nov 1, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I doubt it, what with Disney/Pixar's deal with Apple and iTunes. Same reason Disney films aren't available with NetFlix's download service.
> 
> Excellent! :up:
> 
> ...


Looks like $15 to download it and keep it from what I can tell. It is $1.99 to rent the movie.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-020607amazontivo,0,6108661.story?coll=la-home-headlines

"TV episodes will sell for $1.99, with most movies priced between $9.99 and $14.99, the companies said. Movie rentals will start at $1.99. No extra hardware purchases are required, and there will be no additional subscription fees, the companies said."


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I hope there's HD versions, or at least better-than-the-usual-SD versions available. But it sounds like we're inching ever closer to the point where we could just buy the episodes/movies we want to see and not pay for cable/satellite video anymore.


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## mearlus (Nov 1, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I hope there's HD versions, or at least better-than-the-usual-SD versions available. But it sounds like we're inching ever closer to the point where we could just buy the episodes/movies we want to see and not pay for cable/satellite video anymore.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/tivo//ref=amb_link_4396432_1/102-7961407-4462516

"How will the quality of Unbox videos compare to the quality of shows recorded by my TiVo?
Unbox videos watched on a TiVo will be of better quality than videos recorded at the Best Quality setting on a TiVo Series2 DVR."


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> I hope there's HD versions, or at least better-than-the-usual-SD versions available. But it sounds like we're inching ever closer to the point where we could just buy the episodes/movies we want to see and not pay for cable/satellite video anymore.


Agreed, with lots of players offering that possibility. iTunes offers "season passes" and the AppleTV will allow you to stream those video downloads to the TV.

I am very interested to try out Amazon's service on my TiVo.

_A la carte_ TV might shift lots of TV dynamics, actually. Channel surfing will be a thing of the past, and you won't be able to 'stumble' upon a new surprise of a show. But what a way for the consumer to save money. Of course, there won't be commercials to watch either. We as TiVo users are already used to many of these shifts.

TiVo better not screw up and preclude Series 3 owners.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Hmmm... won't work with multi-room video. But it does seem that one might be able to redownload it to different TiVos at different times, just that it can't exist on more than 2 devices at the same time.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> TiVo better not screw up and preclude Series 3 owners.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/tivo//ref=amb_link_4396432_1/102-7961407-4462516

"Amazon Unbox on TiVo" is currently in beta testing among a select group of TiVo subscribers and will be available soon to broadband connected Series2 and Series3 TiVo subscribers.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/tivo//ref=amb_link_4396432_1/102-7961407-4462516
> 
> "Amazon Unbox on TiVo" is currently in beta testing among a select group of TiVo subscribers and will be available soon to broadband connected Series2 and Series3 TiVo subscribers.


Cool. Thanks for that (and the link to the page.)

I'm a bit wary on TiVo's support for these download features and the Series 3, though, since the "Super Bowl Ads" didn't download to my Series 3 like the Gold Star said they would.

I guess we'll wait and see how it rolls out.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Wow guys, fast work, you beat me to my planned post!

I'm very excited about today's announcement. I'll answer some of the questions (where I can) in a bit.

Some details and Q&A at:
http://www.tivo.com/amazon/

Edit: Switched to the easy-to-remember URL.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Fofer said:


> As a Mac user to whom Amazon's (what I hear, crappy) Unbox service is currently unavailable, I'm intrigued by this development.
> 
> If it lets me bypass the computer and download directly to the TiVo, straight from my couch, I'm doubly interested.
> 
> ...


You should be interested, then -- no PC or Mac required. As long as you can browse to Amazon.com and as long as you have a Series2 or Series3 connected via broadband, you can use the new service. (Yes, that does mean that when we launch, we expect that Series3 support will be available.)


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Reading the article leaves me with questions.
> 
> Will I need to "purchase" ahead of time on a PC, and have Amazon "send" the video to the TiVo?
> 
> Or will I be able to purchase completely from my couch?


Purchase/rent from Amazon.com's site, and indicate which TiVo DVR(s) you want it downloaded to.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Thanks, TiVoStephen... I'm very eager to give it a whirl. Sounds like I purchased the Series 3 at just about the right time. Congrats on the announcement, it sounds very exciting.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Hmmm... won't work with multi-room video. But it does seem that one might be able to redownload it to different TiVos at different times, just that it can't exist on more than 2 devices at the same time.


That's correct -- up to two PCs or TiVo DVRs (plus up to two portables). You can, for example, purchase a movie, direct for it to be downloaded to both your bedroom and living room, then watch it an delete it from your bedroom unit, and then use Amazon's site to request it to be downloaded to a different DVR or to a PC.


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

At $1.99 for rentals this seems like a decent deal but a lot of the newer movies on unbox are $3.99 rentals. Will they be changing their pricing when this service rolls out?


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I've been wanting a download rental service. I've bought a few movies off iTunes, but its a bit expensive if all I'm going to do is watch it once, which is all I've done, so a $1-99 rental is perfect.

I would pay-per-view, but the selection is never as good and with an S3 I can't access Comcast's on demand PPV. That's Comcast's loss, they don't want to sell me their most profitable service. $1-99 (or even $3.99) is cheaper than most PPV anyway.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I guess there's no concept of a Series subscription with Amazon Unbox, at least yet, right? The only option is a flat $1.99 per episode.

I'd jump right into this if they made series available from other countries that aren't available in the US yet. I'd gladly pay to have things like "Hollyoaks" and "Home and Away" and "Skins" and "Shameless" and "Life on Mars" and "ReGenesis" and "Seven Periods with Mr. Gormsby" and "Torchwood" and "Doctor Who", et. al., all downloading to me automatically right after they air wherever they originally air.

With the content that I could just get through regular broadcast means, it'll probably see a lot less use from me, though certainly I can see playing around with it to see how well it all works.

I hope they're working out rights issues so in the near future these things can get into the world market at the same time as their home market gets them.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

TiVoStephen said:


> You should be interested, then -- no PC or Mac required. As long as you can browse to Amazon.com and as long as you have a Series2 or Series3 connected via broadband, you can use the new service. (Yes, that does mean that when we launch, we expect that Series3 support will be available.)


As another Mac user, I'm happy to hear this.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

$2 to $4 a rental is in the Netflix range if you're a light renter (I'm on two-at-a-time for $15, which works out to $2 apiece if I watch two every weekend - but I don't).

I'm OK with ordering a movie one night and watching it the next.

My only observation is that the Superbowl ads are trickling into my NPL - I had hoped they would all have been loaded by Monday night. Tell me this wasn't due to bandwidth limitations and I'll feel better about Unbox.

My read: this is pretty close to what TiVo's been promising for quite some time. Please don't screw it up !


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## mtchamp (May 15, 2001)

Great! I can schedule downloads from work. I hope we get to order from the TV at some point. I also hope a monthly subcription option is offered.


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## Frankenstien (Feb 8, 2006)

Awesome!


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## davinwv (Dec 15, 2004)

Is there a list to sign to become a beta tester?


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## infinitespecter (Jul 23, 2004)

This seems pretty cool, but unless it offers HD movies, i'll be sticking with the Xbox Video Marketplace and Netflix HDDVDs.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

My question would be, on a S2 tivo, can you get widescreen movies?


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

I wonder if this will eventually work with Comcast Tivo powered boxes. Then it would be direct competition for ondemand, so probably not.


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## KJW (Sep 27, 2003)

Not to totally dampen the festivities, but when will this _really _ be available to users, not just beta testers?

Given Tivo's record of time from announcement to availability, I'm guessing sometime early- to mid 2008.

But I am glad to hear the quality will be good.

Overall, this is a HUGE boost for Tivo over all rivals, including PC based downloading solutions. No one wants to watch TV on a computer and too few people have media PC's in their family rooms.


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## dkuper (Dec 1, 2003)

My questions is if HD or even upconverted versions will be available. If i can purchase an HD rental and watch it on my Tivo and not have to choose between blue-ray and HD-DVD player format until it gets resolved.. I'll be very happy


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

HD content is going to be a bear to download.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

Sorry if I missed it, but what's the deal with rentals? Do you have a limited time to watch or a maximum number that can be downloaded at once?

-Dylan


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## headroll (Jan 20, 2003)

OK ... now we need amazon or TiVo or some inspired user to create a HME application to interface with the ordering system ... pure couch lazy goodness (except for the 6 hours to download of course)

-Roll


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## JuryDuty (Jan 10, 2003)

Wow--at $1.99 movie rental, I'd stop going to Blockbuster for sure. Nice!


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

To be fair, I expect that new releases will be closer to $4


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

KJW said:


> Not to totally dampen the festivities, but when will this _really _ be available to users, not just beta testers?
> 
> Given Tivo's record of time from announcement to availability, I'm guessing sometime early- to mid 2008.
> 
> ...


Here here. Netflix anyone? I will be happy about this when it is functional and working.


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Sounds cool, but why can't you search for shows FROM the tivo?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

dylanemcgregor said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but what's the deal with rentals? Do you have a limited time to watch or a maximum number that can be downloaded at once?


Once you download it you have 30 days to watch it. Once you begin watching it you have 24 hours to finish.


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

If I can get HiDef movies, I'd be interested.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

TiVoStephen said:


> You should be interested, then -- no PC or Mac required. As long as you can browse to Amazon.com and as long as you have a Series2 or Series3 connected via broadband, you can use the new service. (Yes, that does mean that when we launch, we expect that Series3 support will be available.)


I not clear on this- will we TiVo users be able to browse Amazon.com using the remote and Tivo-bypassing the computer completely?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Once you download it you have 30 days to watch it. Once you begin watching it you have 24 hours to finish.


Perhaps I'm missing something here. I usually am. I can buy a PPV movie today for $3.99 and store it on my DirecTivo for years. Watch it as many times and as often as I want. For $1 more the same movie is available in HD format. Why would I pay these prices for the same ability I have already?

Obviously there would be a better selection, but is that it?

You keep saying no PC is required. Does that mean the S2 and S3 will get a browser? Or is no PC required after I use a PC to select and pay for the movie?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I guess there's no concept of a Series subscription with Amazon Unbox, at least yet, right? The only option is a flat $1.99 per episode.


Movie rentals at 1.99 per are good for me and would be in the netflix range - but 1.99 to own a TV show is simply silly. If I wnat to own a TV show I will get the DVD box set and the only one I ever wanted to own was FireFly.
I would love a subscription service for just TV shows. download 15 hours a month for 15$ in a rental mode would be great.
Not happy about 24 hours to watch a movie though. *Amazon needs to change that to 48 hours * so that a sick kid or some other unexpected thing does not mean I have to finish watching *before * say 8pm the next night instead of being able to just watch it at some point the next night if I had 48 hours instead.

anyhow - TiVo is the first to make it straight to the TV and good for them. I plan on some good movie nights especially around Kid movies at 1.99 a rental :up:


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## mearlus (Nov 1, 2004)

peteypete said:


> Sounds cool, but why can't you search for shows FROM the tivo?


I shudder at the thought of the delay on loading those menus...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

pdhenry said:


> To be fair, I expect that new releases will be closer to $4


Along these lines, I look forward to the day when we can watch _first run_ movies at home, maybe on premiere night. I'd pay $20 (or so) for _that_ privilege. 

Movie industry, ya listening?


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Joe3 said:


> I not clear on this- will we TiVo users be able to browse Amazon.com using the remote and Tivo-bypassing the computer completely?


I ain't complaining, but it seems a bit of an oversight. But I guess part of the deal was that Amazon wanted to drive traffic to amazon.com.

(Wait, I am complaining!)

Plus, how many people have Broadband but NO computer?

Tivo, please get it RIGHT COMPLETELY!! Then you'll get a grand slam.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

it does occurr to me though that these downlaod services have the higher prices now as they are new and because they are working out bandwidth issues and content supply, etc.. they are not exactly looking for millions of people to flood the service on opening day  

over time I would think this would go down and what about TiVo finding some way to include the free downloads of TV shows that the networks do from their own website? the have to watch the ads part of the free shows probably makes for some sticky negotiations for TiVo but if they could work that out it would be very cool


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> Perhaps I'm missing something here. I usually am. I can buy a PPV movie today for $3.99 and store it on my DirecTivo for years.


I'm thinking, much better selection, and also the Series 3 doesn't do PPV with lots of (any?) cable companies.

This new feature bridges the gap a bit for folks who've upgraded their TiVo hardware and still want some video on demand. Unless you're using the (soon to be obsolete HR10-250 HD DTiVo,) then you can continue enjoying the PPV benefits of that DirecTiVo, but your box isn't doing HD for it's main recording. Considering your usertitle I'd think that's an important consideration. 



HiDefGator said:


> Or is no PC required after I use a PC to select and pay for the movie?


I believe that is the case.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

peteypete said:


> I ain't complaining, but it seems a bit of an oversight. But I guess part of the deal was that Amazon wanted to drive traffic to amazon.com.
> 
> (Wait, I am complaining!)
> 
> ...


that takes time to build such an HME interface and that means big money to do it.

I am guessing 99% of homes with broadband have a PC  and frankly I have no desire to watch a 540 model try and churn on such a large search feature when Amazon has a perfectly capable web site with great search features along several lines that you could not even fit on an HME screen.

I could see someth9ing like a first run movie list or current shows or somehting like that - but a full fledged search the large Amazon unbox catalog for what you want to get - it is just more than HME gets it resources around


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> Perhaps I'm missing something here. I usually am. I can buy a PPV movie today for $3.99 and store it on my DirecTivo for years. Watch it as many times and as often as I want. For $1 more the same movie is available in HD format. Why would I pay these prices for the same ability I have already?
> 
> Obviously there would be a better selection, but is that it?
> 
> You keep saying no PC is required. Does that mean the S2 and S3 will get a browser? Or is no PC required after I use a PC to select and pay for the movie?


I suspect you're going to see DRM erode that save-forever ability on PPV channels soon enough.

Much like other HME apps, I don't see any roadblocks to someone creating one as a browsing/buying front-end to run from the TiVo UI. As a broadband connection is required to get the show, there's unlikely any broadband subscribers around who don't have PC's.


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## Globular (Jun 9, 2004)

I think the main benefit, if I read everything correctly, is that I can go to Amazon.com from my work machine, order a movie/show and tell it to download directly to my TiVo; i.e. no PC is required at home to store-and-forward the video file(s).

This works well for all the non-windows users out there (including me, a Linux user at work). 

I like it. Now it's time for Amazon to beef up the content a little. The rental selection looks rather thin as far as new relaeses, etc.

-Matt


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Convenience and quality has been a TiVo selling point. Series 3 owners are already connected to Cable. I don't see the convenience and quality over what Cable is offering at the PPV level if you have to drag a computer into it. Some of us have broadband from cable, but booting up a computer after you sat down for the day? It still has too many steps to be convenient with out downloading from the remote.

And if this will drive more people to Amazon.com for their profit, Tivo subs should get a discount on PPV for all the business we will be sending to Amazon.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I would love a subscription service for just TV shows. download 15 hours a month for 15$ in a rental mode would be great.


Just as a basis for comparison, Apple's iTunes Store has something along these lines, but it's not "rental." You can pay for a season pass to get an entire season (price varies per show.) The Sarah Silverman Show (Comedy Central) is $10, for example. The Office (NBC) is $35. They download automatically as they're released. You also have the option to buy individual episodes for $2. The iTunes Store also has a bunch of premieres and other shows available for free.

Coupled with the new AppleTV hardware, you could stream these downloads to your TV.

Personally I prefer the "direct to TiVo download" approach we're seeing with Amazon, and I'm looking forward to see it roll out and mature.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

dswallow said:


> I'd jump right into this if they made series available from other countries that aren't available in the US yet. I'd gladly pay to have things like "Hollyoaks" and "Home and Away" and "Skins" and "Shameless" and "Life on Mars" and "ReGenesis" and "Seven Periods with Mr. Gormsby" and "Torchwood" and "Doctor Who", et. al., all downloading to me automatically right after they air wherever they originally air.


OMG

Tivo, Amazon, somebody, _please_ take note of this idea.

Sure it would be a small niche market, but could be an attention getting, _profitable_ niche market.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> that takes time to build such an HME interface and that means big money to do it.
> 
> I am guessing 99% of homes with broadband have a PC  and frankly I have no desire to watch a 540 model try and churn on such a large search feature when Amazon has a perfectly capable web site with great search features along several lines that you could not even fit on an HME screen.
> 
> I could see someth9ing like a first run movie list or current shows or somehting like that - but a full fledged search the large Amazon unbox catalog for what you want to get - it is just more than HME gets it resources around


 

I think you're overestimating the resources and new commitment something like this would need.

Amazon has a great developer program and an easily accessible API. They also offer incentives and commissions via their Amazon Associates program. There are tons of great interfaces on all platforms that third-party developers have cobbled together for free, rather quickly, with great effect.

The current HME app "Amazon Product Browser" (info here) works fine enough right now on current S2 and S3 TiVos. You can browse by category, and you can search via text as well. You can see product images, read descriptive text, and ask the TiVo send you a link to the product via email.

At the very least, it would very easy to, as you say, offer a simple list to "browse" the new releases, best sellers, movie by genre, etc. Simply offer a way to purchase the download, or initiate the rental from the remote, and you'd have enough to keep most folks happy.

In fact, after Amazon Unbox on TiVo rolls out, I wouldn't be surprised to see that same HME app updated to support downloads-on-the-fly... or a new app right around the corner that's specifically tailored for the TV/movie browsing experience.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Joe3 said:


> Convenience and quality has been a TiVo selling point. Series 3 owners are already connected to Cable. I don't see the convenience and quality over what Cable is offering at the PPV level if you have to drag a computer into it. Some of us have broadband from cable, but booting up a computer after you sat down for the day? It still has too many steps to be convenient with out downloading from the remote.
> 
> And if this will drive more people to Amazon.com for their profit, Tivo subs should get a discount on PPV for all the business we will be sending to Amazon.


Except for the part where you have to use the phone to order PPV on your S3 (if it works at all).

I'd much rather jump on the computer (or do just about anything else) than actually have to talk to a cable company employee on the telephone...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

GoHokies! said:


> Except for the part where you have to use the phone to order PPV on your S3 (if it works at all).


I'm with Time Warner in SoCal and I am a new S3 owner. I'm curious to know if PPV is even available to me, if I am willing to call ahead (like, for a live boxing event.) Or would I need to go down to the office and pick up their crappy set top box? I asked in the TWC thread but no one knew; I'll call TW myself one of these days and find out.


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Globular said:


> I think the main benefit, if I read everything correctly, is that I can go to Amazon.com from my work machine, order a movie/show and tell it to download directly to my TiVo; i.e. no PC is required at home to store-and-forward the video file(s).
> 
> This works well for all the non-windows users out there (including me, a Linux user at work).
> 
> ...


Yes, schedule from work and have it show up by the time you get home is good.

But also. While I'm watching Tivo and nothing good is on, or I'm missing an episode and you're lying in bed and the computer is off, I'd be nice to purchase a movie or episode.



ZeoTiVo said:


> that takes time to build such an HME interface and that means big money to do it.
> 
> I am guessing 99% of homes with broadband have a PC  and frankly I have no desire to watch a 540 model try and churn on such a large search feature when Amazon has a perfectly capable web site with great search features along several lines that you could not even fit on an HME screen.
> 
> I could see someth9ing like a first run movie list or current shows or somehting like that - but a full fledged search the large Amazon unbox catalog for what you want to get - it is just more than HME gets it resources around


Selected offerings from the Tivo would be a nice start, but why can't Tivo just integrate it with their search. I mean, that's what they tout themselves as?

Wasn't it called "unified search" or something like that?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I think you're overestimating the resources and new commitment something like this would need.
> 
> Amazon has a great developer program and an easily accessible API. .


to clarify - yes the HME app could be built as Amazon is already in the business of letting their services show up on as many platforms as possible.

I actually meant that a TiVo/Amazon HME app would have higher expectations and still be no match for the online from a PC experience. I certainly would thaink that at some point a 3rd party HME app will show up and if they can pass your signon credentials so you can order a purchase/download via the HME app then that HME app would be popular despite any limitations vs the web site itself. Also one of the big hurdles in nay HME app is a web site with its big backend app servers doing the work into a smart fron end web page vs a lone TiVo box already processing away just to format the data for display let alone doing anything with the data like ajax can. An HME app will just have a lot more back and forth conversation with the servers.

So I doubt we will see an HME app from TiVo directly for this.


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## timmo (Apr 25, 2003)

What about download times - any idea how long it would take to download a standard length movie on DSL (basic, medium, high resolution?)?

Tim


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## Steve Palo (Jan 18, 2002)

Does anyone think that those of us Series 1 users with Turbonet (broadband, sort of) connections will be able to use the new service?


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Steve Palo said:


> Does anyone think that those of us Series 1 users with Turbonet (broadband, sort of) connections will be able to use the new service?


Doubtful.


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

peteypete said:


> I ain't complaining, but it seems a bit of an oversight. But I guess part of the deal was that Amazon wanted to drive traffic to amazon.com.
> 
> (Wait, I am complaining!)
> 
> ...


I suppose someone could create (may have even been done already) an HME or Galleon Application that would let you surf the web on TV. That would solve the first problem.

But I would think that allowing Amazon to put a single add on your screen (with a easy way to get more info and order) should make them happy to allow you order through the Tivo.

Can you imagine walking through Amazon's list of movies like you do on 'Find Programs'?? That'd be cool.

-Kyle


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## DePictureBoy (Mar 22, 2006)

c3 said:


> Internet download is intended to take over your Netflix expenses.


3.99 per movie rental will not put a crimp in Netflix.


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## hockeyinsd (Sep 23, 2005)

I am very excited about this feature! Since I upgraded my HD to 400GB a few months ago, I've slowly ripped my favorite dvds and uploaded them to my tivo. Its all about convienence and not having to find the dvd, load it in the dvd player and mess around with different remotes makes it all worth it. While this may make me sound lazy, it boils down to I'd rather use the tivo for everything, as it has allowed me to take one more component out of my entertainment center. One less thing to break, one less set of cables, one less remote. Love it!


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Globular said:


> I think the main benefit, if I read everything correctly, is that I can go to Amazon.com from my work machine, order a movie/show and tell it to download directly to my TiVo; i.e. no PC is required at home to store-and-forward the video file(s).


I think you're assuming that the content will be at home wiating for you after you've ordered it from work.

Perhaps moving the server load to Amazon/Unbox will fix some of the problem, but I have not yet seen mass downloads executed well to my TiVo. I'm still receiving Superbowl ad downloads (I had expected to receive all of them Monday) and Showcases still rely on the TiVo not having a requested recording in the early morning hours (I wonder why they don't download the clips to broadband-conected TiVos yet?).


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I love this deal ... and hope it is just the beginning.

But why does Tivo continue to announce stuff long in advance of general availability? How many Tivo subs are going to be confused and disappointed when they read of this news and realize they can't use the service. Unified search announced in November, Virtual channels, Tivo Desktop 2.4 and Unbox on Tivo - and I still can't use any of it.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> But why does Tivo continue to announce stuff long in advance of general availability?


In this case, probably because it would leak out if they didn't. How long do you think it would be before some a-hole of a beta tester sent screenshots to the blogs?

If they are really going into beta today, I doubt the wait will be all that long.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

DePictureBoy said:


> 3.99 per movie rental will not put a crimp in Netflix.


It does when the movie is sitting in your Netflix queue and not available.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> I love this deal ... and hope it is just the beginning.
> 
> But why does Tivo continue to announce stuff long in advance of general availability? How many Tivo subs are going to be confused and disappointed when they read of this news and realize they can't use the service. Unified search announced in November, Virtual channels, Tivo Desktop 2.4 and Unbox on Tivo - and I still can't use any of it.


agreed, now even Apple has been forced to way pre-announce the Apple TV dealio as everyone is looking for mindshare in this new market.

The unified search is more likely to be what TiVo brings to find unbox offerings which would be part of the find programs code vs a seperate HME app. Since it was not part of this preanouncement then likely we will use unbox web site to order videos, which is fine by me.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

kjmcdonald said:


> I suppose someone could create (may have even been done already) an HME or Galleon Application that would let you surf the web on TV. That would solve the first problem.
> 
> But I would think that allowing Amazon to put a single add on your screen (with a easy way to get more info and order) should make them happy to allow you order through the Tivo.
> 
> ...


The someone who could create (may have even been done already) an HME or Galleon Application that would let you surf the web on TV would have to be or may have been Amazon.

They are the internet winners here not Apple not yet. What is iTunes on the internet campared to Amazon on the internet. They can just buy the HME or Galleon Application right out.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Y'all might wanna read the terms of this deal.

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/15/amazon_unbox_to_cust.html

Hint: They aren't good.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

timmo said:


> What about download times - any idea how long it would take to download a standard length movie on DSL (basic, medium, high resolution?)?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/tivo//ref=amb_link_4396432_1/105-0209974-6906829

*How long will it take to download Unbox videos to my TiVo?*

Download times will vary depending on your actual Internet connection speed and the length of the video. With a fast broadband connection (5 Mbps), a movie can download in about an hour, while a 1-hour TV episode can download in about 30 minutes. However, on a slower broadband connection (less than 1 Mbps), a movie could take up to 5 hours.

Luckily, the Unbox RemoteLoad feature allows you to order from Amazon.com and download anywhere. So, you can order your video during your lunch break and itll be ready to watch when you get home from work.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I suspect you're going to see DRM erode that save-forever ability on PPV channels soon enough.
> 
> ....


I believe my provider already marks the PPV with a CCI of 0x03 which is NUKE after 90 minutes. I'm assuming that as the Series 3 and other cablecard DVR's become more prevelent so will providers using that flag.

basically allows you to pause the show to pee, answer the door or the phone but you cant even skip back to the beginning of the movie to check a detail if you are at the end. In compliance with the cablecard rules tivo will not permit viewing of ANY PART that is older than 90 minutes. If you just finished recording a 2 hour movie the first 30 minutes are not viewable.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Joe3 said:


> Convenience and quality has been a TiVo selling point. Series 3 owners are already connected to Cable. I don't see the convenience and quality over what Cable is offering at the PPV level if you have to drag a computer into it. Some of us have broadband from cable, but booting up a computer after you sat down for the day? It still has too many steps to be convenient with out downloading from the remote.
> 
> And if this will drive more people to Amazon.com for their profit, Tivo subs should get a discount on PPV for all the business we will be sending to Amazon.


Is it all that much different between having to CALL your cable compnay to order your PPV or to browse the amazon page to order it?

How many PPV choices does your cable company offer at a time? How many videos are availible at any one moment at amazon? I'd guess it's ORDERS of magnitude more at Amazon- even today with their limited offering.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

Luckily I have a 4MBps connection  

I saw this news on yahoo stock (tivo) news, when I noticed Tivo stock up big today. I immediately went to Amazon to see exactly what this "unbox" is and did a search under Movies - Comedies - Standup - and came up with only one selection, and no easy way to provide feedback on the site. 

This is a great step in the right direction and a great opportunity to help Tivo become a profitable company, and help Amazon as well, but I think it has a long way to go. 

I'd rather rip movies rented via Netflix, or Blockbuster, unless I'm feeling lazy. In that case $2 on demand is going to get some use, but they still need the kind of availability that the big boys (netflix) currently have.

As far as HD; the time to DL files this size is a drawback, but future bandwidth improvements and new compression techniques will help take some of the pain out of it.

In any case I think this is great for Tivo, and I'm looking forward to some major improvements to take place, as testing begins.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

peteypete said:


> ....
> 
> Selected offerings from the Tivo would be a nice start, but why can't Tivo just integrate it with their search. I mean, that's what they tout themselves as?
> 
> Wasn't it called "unified search" or something like that?


I think I recall somehting saying that the comcast software does just that. I wouldn't be surprised if the relationship does well if amazon titles weren't included in the tivo search in the future.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

As far as I know the feature will simply allow you to DL to your computer hard drive, and play it from your Tivo server. No search features, but I could be wrong on that.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> I think you're assuming that the content will be at home wiating for you after you've ordered it from work.
> 
> Perhaps moving the server load to Amazon/Unbox will fix some of the problem, but I have not yet seen mass downloads executed well to my TiVo. I'm still receiving Superbowl ad downloads (I had expected to receive all of them Monday) and Showcases still rely on the TiVo not having a requested recording in the early morning hours (I wonder why they don't download the clips to broadband-conected TiVos yet?).


i think that's a fair assumption- that the video will start downloading shortly and will be able to come close to max'ing your broadband download speed.

I'm guessing that because current tivocast things (like superbowl ads) are free so they probably have limited bandwidth on the server end. If you are paying I'd assume they will give the server the appropriate ability.

The showcases are recorded from the tv in the midddle of the night becasue it's cheaper for tivo that way then downloading them. It's cheaper for them to buy a 30 minute infomercial spot on discovery then to pay for 2 million dial up connections. And since they are already broadcasting it then the broadband connected units might as well go that route too.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Joe3 said:


> The someone who could create (may have even been done already) an HME or Galleon Application that would let you surf the web on TV would have to be or may have been Amazon.


there is no web _browser_ running on the TiVo. The best anyone has done with HME is galleon that included making a jpg out of what is on your PC screen and showing that on the TiVo. Obviously this is not 30 times a second for dynamic viewing and the resolution is hardly text friendly, but more of a novelty item. With no HTML parser even, web viewing will not come to any TiVo near you.

now APIs that let you get a list of catalog items like say the top 100 rentals from unbox - that can be data that is formatted by HME to view and select from on your TiVo. The point I had before is that this HME app will need to be built from the ground up or at least cloned from the netflix queue HME app out there already.

I hold out more hope for a unified search built into the current find programs code as more useful for the tiVo/Amazon deal


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> As far as I know the feature will simply allow you to DL to your computer hard drive, and play it from your Tivo server. No search features, but I could be wrong on that.


it's been posted a few times- the download will go directly to the tivo - no intermediary computer is needed (accept for the initial ordering)


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

This is the future. It's just a shame that tivo is coming late to the party, well behind microsoft and apple.

Of course tivos have MUCH larger hard drives than xbox360s or appletvs, they aren't tied to a computer like appletv, tivo has a markedly superior and familiar interface, and at 4 million subscribers they're just about dead even with the xbox360 in the USA. Hopefully they make it work.

Now they just need to add IPTV.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Bai Shen said:


> Y'all might wanna read the terms of this deal.
> 
> http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/15/amazon_unbox_to_cust.html
> 
> Hint: They aren't good.


come on - that is digging through the agreement to find all kinds of stuff and most of it is conspiracy/tin-foil level stuff.

aside from that - a very important distinction is that the agreement is talking about downloading the digital content onto your PC to be viewed there. Then all the software runs on your PC and will make sure DRM is enforced and gives us the right to blacklist legal software -yaday yada junk comes into play.

with this TiVo/Amazon agreement - if you only download the digital content onto the TiVo - then TiVo does the DRM through the software already running on the TiVo. Nothing happens on the PC. - if all you do is browse the unbox website to select downloads - no software is installed on your PC and none of that applies.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Movie rentals at 1.99 per are good for me and would be in the netflix range - but 1.99 to own a TV show is simply silly. If I wnat to own a TV show I will get the DVD box set and the only one I ever wanted to own was FireFly.
> I would love a subscription service for just TV shows. download 15 hours a month for 15$ in a rental mode would be great.
> Not happy about 24 hours to watch a movie though. *Amazon needs to change that to 48 hours * so that a sick kid or some other unexpected thing does not mean I have to finish watching *before * say 8pm the next night instead of being able to just watch it at some point the next night if I had 48 hours instead.
> 
> anyhow - TiVo is the first to make it straight to the TV and good for them. I plan on some good movie nights especially around Kid movies at 1.99 a rental :up:


This is actually in line with what Movielink offers. The services are quite similar, but with Amazon we will eventually be able to watch the movies on our TVs (although I have my computer linked to my TV as a second screen and watch my movie downloads that way anyway). But now I'll be able to put them on my main TV and not just the little one in my office.

The pricing is also similar, although I wouldn't want to own movie downloads at those prices. I can get a DVD for the same money, and have all the extras. Plus, I have trouble picking voices out from the loud background music in movies, so I often like to use the subtitles available on DVD. I haven't been able to figure out if those exist in movie downloads.

The nearest video store to my house is 10 miles, so I don't often rent movies that way. It's so much easier to download them. I order a few from Movielink, and there they are when I want them. Of course, downloading is slow, so you can't watch on a whim, which is where PPV has it all over downloads. But I usually download for less than what PPV costs. In fact, I usually only order PPV when I have free movie coupons.

A subscription service would be nice, and would make them more competitive with Netflicks, etc. I could have a wishlist all set up. Movies expire within 24 hrs. of when you start them. At that point, the next item on my list would download. You could keep a running list of items available to watch. They could keep them in your account at Amazon, and you download them to the Tivo when you're ready for them. Start the download before you leave work, and it's waiting when you get home. Very cool.

Also, it would be nice if you could start watching a movie at a certain point in the download process and not have to wait for it to finish downloading before you watch it. Movielink works that way. I can't wait for this new service.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

rodalpho said:


> This is the future. It's just a shame that tivo is coming late to the party, well behind microsoft and apple.


When did Apple add direct downloading to a device connected to your TV? I must of missed that announcement. Even the Apple TV device can't do that.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rodalpho said:


> This is the future. It's just a shame that tivo is coming late to the party, well behind microsoft and apple.
> 
> Of course tivos have MUCH larger hard drives than xbox360s or appletvs, they aren't tied to a computer like appletv, tivo has a markedly superior and familiar interface, and at 4 million subscribers they're just about dead even with the xbox360 in the USA. Hopefully they make it work.
> 
> Now they just need to add IPTV.


behind apple? Does apple have their box out in the wild yet?

I think it's still very early. How many people are downloading to xbox's? If you looked 5 years ago Tivo and Replay where the kings of the DVR hill. No Replay is all but dead and tivo is well back in the pack. WHo knows who will be the download movie leader in 5 years...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Series3 AND Mac aren't left out in the cold?! Amazing!

:up: :up: :up:


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

huey009 said:


> TiVo, Amazon offer video downloads that can be viewed on TV sets


I am very excited!
EOM


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

Interesting question to ponder:

The issue of offering these shows/movies in HD aside - which would be cheaper for you on a monthly basis?

1) Pay your current cable bill
2) Cancel cable, and pay to download the shows from Amazon

I haven't worked it out yet for myself, but its an interesting idea/question.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

rodalpho said:


> This is the future. It's just a shame that tivo is coming late to the party, well behind microsoft and apple.


Microsoft yes, Apple not even close.

Even if Apple TV comes out a few months before this is available, the amount of people who will pay $300 will pale in comparison to the millions of Tivo subscribers who will have the service the day it's available.

-smak-


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## mearlus (Nov 1, 2004)

Agent86 said:


> Interesting question to ponder:
> 
> The issue of offering these shows/movies in HD aside - which would be cheaper for you on a monthly basis?
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about that today too. I'm gonna through together some spreedsheets tonight I think and see what it comes out to be.

Our area has been trying to get the cable company (Charter) to offer Ala Carte services with no luck. I've heard rumors that ATT's FIOS may offer Ala Carte for channels. 

I'd love ot pay for only the channels we watch and not the 60 other ones we don't


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

smak said:


> Microsoft yes, Apple not even close.
> 
> Even if Apple TV comes out a few months before this is available, the amount of people who will pay $300 will pale in comparison to the millions of Tivo subscribers who will have the service the day it's available.
> 
> -smak-


600,000 standalone TiVo DVRs hooked up to broadband. of course some are multiples in the same house.

Of interest would be to see any movement in that number as the Amazon downloads come online


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I think this is a great addition for TiVo. I am looking forward to it greatly. I see the renting of movies as the number one use. Possibly mostly kids movies for my daughter. Though, I agree, I would like to see the watch period be 48 hours versus 24. I too would love to see the ability to start watching partway through the download, etc.....

Someone mentioned wanting a subscription service......that they were willing to pay something like $15 per month for 15 hours of content.....At that price, why not get another TiVO (yes you have the committment periods and all)?

I have just the 768kb Verizon DSL, so my selections will have to be mid-day or later in the day for the next day's watching.

But in general, I can't wait.

TiVoStephen: How do I get on the Beta list for this one?!?!?!?!?!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> If you looked 5 years ago Tivo and Replay where the kings of the DVR hill. No Replay is all but dead and tivo is well back in the pack.


what pack are you referring to?? 
there is TiVo
There are cable company and Sat DVRs with their obvious competitive edge on price and easy HD
there are DVD burner DVRs
there are HTPCs - that while technically not DVRs I can include on the list

what am I missing?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jlb said:


> Someone mentioned wanting a subscription service......that they were willing to pay something like $15 per month for 15 hours of content.....At that price, why not get another TiVO (yes you have the committment periods and all)?


 I mentioned the 48 hour period and the desire for a susbcription of 15 hours of download content from amazon a month for a subscription price vs 1.99 to purchase one TV show I have no desire to keep anyway. it has nothing to do with recording capacity just being able to download shows without running up a bill.


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## hongcho (Nov 26, 2003)

> How many people are downloading to xbox's?

I think there was a press release around CES 2007 saying that Xbox Live Video Marketplace was the largest pay video download service.

I found the press release.

http://www.stageselect.com/News/newsviewer.aspx?newsid=2525&fromint=1

XBLVM does have HD contents... Not sure about this Unbox/TiVo service...

Hong.


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## rnowicki (Apr 10, 2001)

For a 4GB (34,359,738,368 bits) standard definition show like a movie on a regular DVD you would have:

56k modem: 6.93 days
256k slow DSL: 1.38 days
1mbps DSL: 9.1 hours
3mbps DSL: 3.03 hours
15mbps FIOS: 36 minutes

If they were to offer HD-DVD movies, then a 28GB movie would take:

56k modem: 48.51 days
256k slow DSL: 9.66 days
1mbps DSL: 2.65 days
3mbps DSL: 21 hours
15mbps Fios: 4.2 hours

Of course, a Blu-Ray movie thats closer to 50GB would double those numbers. The moral of the story is that 1) it's definitely time to trade in that dial up connection, and 2) HD downloading isn't coming anytime soon, at least until 15mbps connections become more commonplace.

Even then you would have to wonder if all the people with those big pipes start downloading LOTR at the same time if the entire telecommunications infrastructure of the US wouldn't cough up a gigantic hairball


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> there is no web _browser_ running on the TiVo. The best anyone has done with HME is galleon that included making a jpg out of what is on your PC screen and showing that on the TiVo. Obviously this is not 30 times a second for dynamic viewing and the resolution is hardly text friendly, but more of a novelty item. With no HTML parser even, web viewing will not come to any TiVo near you.
> 
> now APIs that let you get a list of catalog items like say the top 100 rentals from unbox - that can be data that is formatted by HME to view and select from on your TiVo. The point I had before is that this HME app will need to be built from the ground up or at least cloned from the netflix queue HME app out there already.
> 
> I hold out more hope for a unified search built into the current find programs code as more useful for the tiVo/Amazon deal


I've never looked at the HME API, I didn't know it didn't have a HTML rendering 'widget'.

Given that, I wonder if the Tivo CPU, and HME code could format and display the 'mobile' version of many web pages that Cell Phones use. I bet Amazon has one of those that they send to web clients that identify themselves as 'mobile'.

Heck you can eve pick a 'mobile' version of this forum if you change your theme.
That get's you almost 100% text to just print on the screen. Text seems doable by HME, look at the email readers.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but there may be ways to do it.

-Kyle


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## faspina (Nov 4, 2003)

It's Wednesday, has this been released yet. I am in the process of moving to directv but keeping on of my series2. Have not decide if it is worth the 6.95 to keep the other one yet. If I can download movies, as an option. I might keep it. Although DTV hd is very nice.


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## Quevar (Jan 14, 2005)

mearlus said:


> I've been thinking about that today too. I'm gonna through together some spreedsheets tonight I think and see what it comes out to be.


I did a comparison of cable vs. downloading all shows a few months ago:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4369086#post4369086

Here's a modified version of it:
In many cases, it is cheaper to buy all of your shows from iTunes than to buy cable and and pay for the TiVo monthly fee*. Over the course of a year, TiVo will cost $270 (for one year prepaid with box - similar to an Apple TV). Cable is going to cost roughly $40 a month, so about $480 per year, depending on what channels you actually want. So, that is $750 a year for the TiVo solution. For $750, you can buy 376 TV shows from iTunes. Most TV shows have somewhere between 15 and 24 episodes per year, so let's say an average of 20.
- You can watch 18.8 entire seasons of television for the same price as paying for cable and a TiVo for one year. How many do you watch?
- And, when you buy them from iTunes, there are no ads, so it takes even less time than it does to watch than watching on TiVo.
- And, you get DVD quality (or very close) as opposed to cable quality.

* If you have the lifetime membership, it isn't as worthwhile, but they don't sell that anymore, so I won't consider that an option.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

It is a happy day in TiVo land, again

Yet, I must pause having come on board recently (5-6 months) with a Series 3, All I've hear is the talk and I am still waiting for the walk in downtown TiVo land. 

The reality is I couldn't even get bad Superbowl comercials on my TiVo.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> 600,000 standalone TiVo DVRs hooked up to broadband. of course some are multiples in the same house.
> 
> Of interest would be to see any movement in that number as the Amazon downloads come online


I've seen that 600,000 number and also i think I've seen 1.2 million tossed about.

Does that mean the 600,000 broadband houses average 2.0 tivo's?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

another link:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3idfb22153eab512b19c7cb6670f93f5a6

this one says beta testing started in December.



> TiVo programming GM Tara Maitra said negotiations with Amazon began late last year, and beta testing started in December.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> what pack are you referring to??
> there is TiVo
> There are cable company and Sat DVRs with their obvious competitive edge on price and easy HD
> there are DVD burner DVRs
> ...


the original post inferred that tivo would not be a player in this segment because apple and MS already are in the market so tivo was "well behind". (Or so I read it to say that) My point was 5 (or 8- or whatever) years ago there was just Tivo and Replay in the market for DVR's. And thus, just becasue you are the first 2 in doesn't means you will be the only 2 standing in 5 years. Doesn't even mean you will be around (replay is dead). Or that an early lead will mean you have the biggest market share. Moto, dish, SA all probably have more boxes deployed then tivo- right? so tivo is not way out in front but rather in the pack with these other company's.

am i making sense yet (after my 3rd edit- LOL)?


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> Here here. Netflix anyone? I will be happy about this when it is functional and working.


Tsk, tsk, guys, don't be so negative. They are already in Beta. It will be sooner than you think. I cannot wait to give it a try, if it is good, I'll say goodbye netflix, hello amazon!



> TiVo programming GM Tara Maitra said negotiations with Amazon began late last year, and beta testing started in December.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Quevar said:


> I did a comparison of cable vs. downloading all shows a few months ago:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4369086#post4369086
> 
> Here's a modified version of it:
> ...


the only problem is content you cant get anyplace but cable/sat. Namely sports.

With this amazon deal I'd dump pay tv and go ATSC only in a heart beat IF tivo could work out a deal with MLB.tv to stream me my local baseball team's games in HD. I have 7m down- so I think HD MIGHT be possible via MPEG4 dl? I'd pay a fat chunk of change for that alone- probably 20 bucks a month for those 20 games a month that aren't on broadcast tv. MLB.TV, Tivo, and my local team owned RSN could split the 20 bucks and they all woudl be sitting large. The RSN only gets like $2 a month from cable as it is.

Curious - How fast download pipe do I need to get real time HD downloads in MPEG4? Is it close to reality anytime soon? I'm a pain in the butt though because it would have to be HD so maybe that's not possible with current speeds?


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

smak said:


> Microsoft yes, Apple not even close.
> Even if Apple TV comes out a few months before this is available, the amount of people who will pay $300 will pale in comparison to the millions of Tivo subscribers who will have the service the day it's available.


Good point, you're right, appletv doesn't ship for a couple of weeks. I really don't think appletv is all that competitive, although at least it supports HD. But these days it's not smart to bet against Apple. Either way, the xbox360 is the target to beat.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

rodalpho said:


> I really don't think appletv is all that competitive, although at least it supports HD.


AppleTV supports HD, but nothing available at the iTunes store is actually in HD yet. Unless I missed some news, the only thing the AppleTV will play in HD are movie trailers.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Steve Palo said:


> Does anyone think that those of us Series 1 users with Turbonet (broadband, sort of) connections will be able to use the new service?


I can say with 99.3% certainty that they will not.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Joe3 said:


> The reality is I couldn't even get bad Superbowl comercials on my TiVo.


The worst part of that reality is that TiVo is still pushing a Gold Star on my new S3, bragging about this feature.

...that doesn't work for me, and doesn't tell me why. Just runs me around in circles telling me to "Get Connected."


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## goman (Dec 16, 2004)

rnowicki said:


> For a 4GB (34,359,738,368 bits) standard definition show like a movie on a regular DVD you would have:
> 
> 56k modem: 6.93 days
> 256k slow DSL: 1.38 days
> ...


Those are Standard MP2 files.

XBox 360 wmv files are more like 1.2 GB for a 2 hour 480P SD movie and 4.5 GB for a 2 hour 720P HD movie with 5.1 surround for both.

Amazon.com uses the wmv compression. Probably the same as the one used for the 360.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

goman said:


> Amazon.com uses the wmv compression. Probably the same as the one used for the 360.


How would that play on an S2 TiVo?


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

Wow, five pages on a topic like this, and no sign of Dajad/Dale (unless I missed him somewhere else).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Here's the link for the beta sign up. I don't really see how to activate the tivo stuff, though. I think I'm supposed to do it from the amazon site somehow, or maybe the beta of the tivo stuff isn't ready yet.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/help/install-beta-client.html


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Here's the link for the beta sign up. I don't really see how to activate the tivo stuff, though. I think I'm supposed to do it from the amazon site somehow, or maybe the beta of the tivo stuff isn't ready yet.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/help/install-beta-client.html


no - that is the standard place to sign up to use unbox video. It has been there a while and is in place for downloading to a PC already for a while now.

there is the standard link off of www.tivo.com for beta testing application. That has been the standard form to fill out to show your willingness to be a TiVo beta tester.

No idea if that is what you should fill out for this but the link from TAsunder is for regular unbox video download to a PC. There is the infamous Amazon one click shoping in unbox so be careful as you check out the site.


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

The more I look at it. ... time to load up on TIVO.

And glad that I have 2 lifetimed boxes.

Maybe D. Zatz will have to update his $10 a share model.

Tivo finally beat apple to the punch.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

peteypete, you should delete your message.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sorry, I misread a post from a team member working on unbox. He said that tivo was starting beta today and also said that a new vista compatible version was coming. I assumed they were part of the same thing. But the PC beta and Tivo beta are completely unrelated and the tivo one is closed for now.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

When will the 400 LB gorilla that is Amazon get with DTV and market this service?
It irks me that an overwhelming percentage of TiVo's installed base is DTV boxen and no one has successfully convinced DTV to allow them into those boxes.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Gunnyman said:


> When will the 400 LB gorilla that is Amazon get with DTV and market this service?
> It irks me that an overwhelming percentage of TiVo's installed base is DTV boxen and no one has successfully convinced DTV to allow them into those boxes.


I wonder if there's any legitimate way TiVo could offer a software upgrade to the HR10-250 hardware that just made it work OTA-only but with the full TiVo feature set and requiring a subscription through TiVo... we own the hardware, after all, and it'd just be a software download and since it'd completely disable use with DirecTV it's not like it'd need any testing on their part at that point.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> another link:
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3idfb22153eab512b19c7cb6670f93f5a6
> 
> this one says beta testing started in December.


Here's a link that first hinted about it, back in September of last year:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/22/amazon-working-with-tivo-for-unbox-integration/


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## entropy (Apr 1, 2002)

mearlus said:


> I'd love ot pay for only the channels we watch and not the 60 other ones we don't


I'd love to pay *the same price* and get only the channels I watch, so my money doesn't go to support things like sports, shopping and religious channels (never mind local origination) and so they don't even appear on my television. Take the cable fees and divide them amongst the channels people actually want to pay for.

It sticks in my craw to be counted as a subscriber for things I find reprehensible. Full a la carte would be nice, but I'd be happy if we could block things we don't want and give those people a metaphorical black eye.

~ Kiran <[email protected]>


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

TiVoStephen said:


> That's correct -- up to two PCs or TiVo DVRs (plus up to two portables). You can, for example, purchase a movie, direct for it to be downloaded to both your bedroom and living room, then watch it an delete it from your bedroom unit, and then use Amazon's site to request it to be downloaded to a different DVR or to a PC.


Since these are permanent purchases, how do you go about changing the destination of a PC when you buy new PCs, over the course of the years? ... ditto with regard to when you replace your TiVos with new ones?


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

bicker said:


> Since these are permanent purchases, how do you go about changing the destination of a PC when you buy new PCs, over the course of the years? ... ditto with regard to when you replace your TiVos with new ones?


I would assume you would just go into your account settings and map up new pc's and or TiVo's. Remove the old and replace with the new.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

bicker said:


> Since these are permanent purchases, how do you go about changing the destination of a PC when you buy new PCs, over the course of the years? ... ditto with regard to when you replace your TiVos with new ones?


Since the FAQ says:



FAQ said:


> If I delete my Unbox video from my TiVo is it gone forever?
> Amazon Unbox stores all of your purchased videos in Your Media Library for re-download, so your videos dont have to take up all the space on your TiVo.


it sounds as if you just delete them from the units you're getting rid of and re-download them onto the new.


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

So...i pay the purchase price and download movie to Tivo. I now own a copy of this movie and can watch it whenever i desire....but i cant "Save to VCR" and put it on DVD to watch in the bedroom where there is no TIVO?????


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I don't see why you couldn't hook up an output from the TiVo to the input of a DVD recorder and record it in real time........


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mrjam2jab said:


> So...i pay the purchase price and download movie to Tivo. I now own a copy of this movie and can watch it whenever i desire....but i cant "Save to VCR" and put it on DVD to watch in the bedroom where there is no TIVO?????


that would be a value add that Amazon would rather you pay for 

You can download to PC and move to certified Portable devices to watch otehr places. Obviously not the easy DVD scanario and the cost of the portable is factored in - but for a lot of people who do not think to just rip a DVD as getting too technical having an officially supported way to put shows and movies on a portable device is worth money to them so they purchase the content.

Frankly I would only want to ever rent a movie or show as I am not big on rewatching much media so the above does not work for that. Guess you will have to spring for another TiVo or things like AVcast that can broadcast the TiVo on a cable channel throughout the house. 
I have a TiVo on each TV in the house now as MRV makes it so easy to watch any recorded show anywhere. Of course these downloads will most likely not be able to MRV so you would have to make use of the download to two devices from UNBOX


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## briguymaine (Mar 17, 2004)

jlb said:


> I don't see why you couldn't hook up an output from the TiVo to the input of a DVD recorder and record it in real time........


Ahhhhh.... the old analog loophole. Gotta love it! You always have that analog option, itunes Fairplay DRM? burn a cd and re-rip, DVD css encryption (pre dvdjon)? try to record the dvd player output.

Most folks don't think this is an option because it takes the media out of the digital domain, thus, losing a generation and perceived image quality. But I agree with you, there is always a way around any kind of copy protection.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jlb said:


> I don't see why you couldn't hook up an output from the TiVo to the input of a DVD recorder and record it in real time........


Exactly... you just couldn't burn directly from the Amazon Player on your PC, is the way I understand it.


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## piano4rent (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd like this if Amazon would carry translations of movies in other languages. For example, if the movie Cars was available in French, German, Italian, etc. - not just in Spanish. Most big Hollywood movies end up getting translated and shown in other countries. Once they have run in the theatre and are released in the stores over there...can they be released on Unbox?


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## Kobra (Oct 18, 2006)

I am reading/hearing that movies for Tivo folks will be capped at $1.99 for rentals, is this correct? 

I see Unbox rents many at $3.99-$4.99 which is a rip off considering for $15 I can get dozens of movies a month from Blockbuster Online. Also, I think the prices they want for downloaded movies is excessive, they shouldn't be more than $5.99 a movie considering you eliminate the packaging/processing/retail costs. Whats with the price gouging on downloaded movies going on these days???

I just want confirmation that all movies will rent for $1.99.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Kobra said:


> I am reading/hearing that movies for Tivo folks will be capped at $1.99 for rentals, is this correct?


I don't think a TiVo rental is any different than a regular Unbox rental so I can't see why the prices will be different than what they have now. Btw, $2-$4 is in line with VOD prices so I wouldn't say they are outrageous. Obviously a power Netflix or Blockbuster user will not use this service as much. But when you have movies stuck in your queue, renting a movie through Amazon will sound like a good alternative in the meantime.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I believe the wording was "as low as $1.99". There are quite a few $1.99 movie rentals on Unbox, but most are crappy old movies. For new releases the going rate seems to be $3.99, which is on par with PPV.

Personally I think the real break through for a service like this is when one of them puts together an all you can watch service, ala Netflix, where you pay a flat monthly rate and can download one movie at a time as quickly as you can watch them. Although I think the MPAA is still a little resistant to such a service at the moment, but it should happen eventually.

Dan


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> I would assume you would just go into your account settings and map up new pc's and or TiVo's. Remove the old and replace with the new.





Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Since the FAQ says: ... it sounds as if you just delete them from the units you're getting rid of and re-download them onto the new.


My comment was directed at the fact that you're limited to two PCs, and two TiVos. Presumably, if you can just change which two PCs are registered, that's not much of a restriction at all.

Assuming that you can change the identities of the devices as you suggest, how long after you change the identity does the software stop allowing you to play the video on the old device?


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## Kobra (Oct 18, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I believe the wording was "as low as $1.99". There are quite a few $1.99 movie rentals on Unbox, but most are crappy old movies. For new releases the going rate seems to be $3.99, which is on par with PPV.
> 
> Personally I think the real break through for a service like this is when one of them puts together an all you can watch service, ala Netflix, where you pay a flat monthly rate and can download one movie at a time as quickly as you can watch them. Although I think the MPAA is still a little resistant to such a service at the moment, but it should happen eventually.
> 
> Dan


That would be the sweetspot.

Right now, I figure we watch 8 movies a month through Blockbuster Online. I usually call and threaten to cancel, and they put me on a ridiculously low plan for awhile (as low as $8.99 unlimited often). So it keeps the costs down quite low.

I would figure $1.99 for all rentals would be fair, because then I would be paying $16.00 for our 8 movies a month with the added convenience of not having to pick them up or wait for shipment.

Anything more, and they will be much much less likely to get any of my business. I really hope they factor in a consumer friendly model or it won't take off as well as they hope until they do. $4-5 per movie is *NOT* a consumer friendly price point.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jlb said:


> I don't see why you couldn't hook up an output from the TiVo to the input of a DVD recorder and record it in real time........


i'd bet a beer that there's macrovision flags that will stop that.

Of course the ebay "image stabilizers" would resolve that ....


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I believe the wording was "as low as $1.99". There are quite a few $1.99 movie rentals on Unbox, but most are crappy old movies. For new releases the going rate seems to be $3.99, which is on par with PPV.
> 
> ...


I dont reent a lot of dvd's so forgive my ignorance- but aren't new releases at the block buster on DVD like $3.99 for a 2 day rental also?

Seems if it' a new relase rental then the price point is 3.99 no matter the medium/media?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> I dont reent a lot of dvd's so forgive my ignorance- but aren't new releases at the block buster on DVD like $3.99 for a 2 day rental also?
> 
> Seems if it' a new relase rental then the price point is 3.99 no matter the medium/media?


That's because Amazon isn't choosing the price for rentals. The movie studios are dictating the price.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> Seems if it' a new relase rental then the price point is 3.99 no matter the medium/media?


At my local Hollywood Video it's only $2.99 for a rental. I think these prices are designed to compete with PPV not physical rentals.

In any case, if you're a heavy user, Netflix or Blockbuster Online are still a much better deal.

Dan


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Exactly... you just couldn't burn directly from the Amazon Player on your PC, is the way I understand it.


What i was reading was Section 4b from the boingboing link provided earlier which states...towards the end...

You may make a back-up copy of Purchased Digital Content on removable media (e.g. recordable DVD) or on an external hard drive in the same format as the original downloaded file to play on your permitted Authorized Devices. Any back-up copy of the Purchased Digital Content on a DVD will not be playable on a traditional DVD player, but only on a permitted Authorized Device.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> At my local Hollywood Video it's only $2.99 for a rental. I think these prices are designed to compete with PPV not physical rentals.
> 
> In any case, if you're a heavy user, Netflix or Blockbuster Online are still a much better deal.
> 
> Dan


I'm sure the pay one price plans are best if people are into it.

for MY USE- tivo/amazon unbox is perfect if they have a decent catalog. We sporadically rent movies (hence I cant recall the price at the store)- so we haven't even taken the leap to get a monthly plan just yet. My cable company has 7m downloads as the cheapest speed so I'm looking forward to picking out a movie befroe dinner and watching it after rather then having to pack up the kids and head over the blockbuster and spending 10 minutes at checkout discussing the merits of blockbuster popcorn vs the store bought box at home- LOL. I'll save 10 bucks a rental on impulse candy buys alone. 

If they offer HD downloads for my S3 then I might not even bother buying an HD disc player for some time to come.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> If they offer HD downloads for my S3 then I might not even bother buying an HD disc player for some time to come.


Unbox doesn't have an HD selections AFAIK. But I think they will have to have them soon to keep up with their competitors. Maybe this deal with TiVo will force their hand.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

mrjam2jab said:


> What i was reading was Section 4b from the boingboing link provided earlier which states...towards the end...
> 
> You may make a back-up copy of Purchased Digital Content on removable media (e.g. recordable DVD) or on an external hard drive in the same format as the original downloaded file to play on your permitted Authorized Devices. Any back-up copy of the Purchased Digital Content on a DVD will not be playable on a traditional DVD player, but only on a permitted Authorized Device.


Well, sure, you can backup the data file to a DVD-R, and transport that to another PC running the Amazon Player.

When I was discussing "burning to DVD" I was thinking about burning it as a DVD-Video that could play in a standalone DVD player. _That_ is what's not possible right now with this service. Big difference between the two kinds of "burning."


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Unbox doesn't have an HD selections AFAIK. But I think they will have to have them soon to keep up with their competitors. Maybe this deal with TiVo will force their hand.


I think it's a matter of when not if. I'm hopping it's sooner rather then later but time will tell...


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## garyR2 (Sep 15, 2006)

Will you have the ability to start playing the movie before it is fully downloaded?


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## Rick lite (Sep 8, 2001)

TiVoStephen said:


> You should be interested, then -- no PC or Mac required. As long as you can browse to Amazon.com and as long as you have a Series2 or Series3 connected via broadband, you can use the new service. (Yes, that does mean that when we launch, we expect that Series3 support will be available.)


I have hacked my Series 1 so that it has broadband access (network card, no connection needed to telephone line). Will it work for me?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Rick lite said:


> I have hacked my Series 1 so that it has broadband access (network card, no connection needed to telephone line). Will it work for me?


This has been answered; this feature is for Series 2 and Series 3 boxes only.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

garyR2 said:


> Will you have the ability to start playing the movie before it is fully downloaded?


it will probably be like TiVoCast is now in which you have to wait for the download to finish


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Well, sure, you can backup the data file to a DVD-R, and transport that to another PC running the Amazon Player.
> 
> When I was discussing "burning to DVD" I was thinking about burning it as a DVD-Video that could play in a standalone DVD player. _That_ is what's not possible right now with this service. Big difference between the two kinds of "burning."


and the difference is that if you could burn a playable DVD in a standalone device then the content is out of UNBOX control. A group of neighbors could swap movies around in a case like that as one example of why Unbox would not do that.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> and the difference is that if you could burn a playable DVD in a standalone device then the content is out of UNBOX control. A group of neighbors could swap movies around in a case like that as one example of why Unbox would not do that.


Of course, yes. But we're going around in circles. mrjam2jab started by wondering if he could simply "Save to VCR" in the TiVo menu and use a DVD Recorder. And he could (barring Macrovision issues?)

Then he countered with the terms & conditions which said you _could_ burn directly... and I was clarifying how that form of "data file burning" is different.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Sometimes you can tell who is in the beta test by looking at who is not commenting.


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

So, is the Netflix deal 100% dead now? Or maybe Netflix can manage a "subscription based" type service. 

Choice is good. Is Unbox's download selection really better than Netflix at the moment?


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

garyR2 said:


> Will you have the ability to start playing the movie before it is fully downloaded?


 Yes, I read that you could start watching after the download starts. I cannot remember where though.


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> I believe the wording was "as low as $1.99". There are quite a few $1.99 movie rentals on Unbox, but most are crappy old movies. For new releases the going rate seems to be $3.99, which is on par with PPV.
> 
> Personally I think the real break through for a service like this is when one of them puts together an all you can watch service, ala Netflix, where you pay a flat monthly rate and can download one movie at a time as quickly as you can watch them. Although I think the MPAA is still a little resistant to such a service at the moment, but it should happen eventually.
> 
> Dan


You would think TiVo could work out a deal for a small monthly fee to have access to any program that was on broadcast television in case you missed recording it the first time for "free" due to error on your part, bad weather, local interruption, etc.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MighTiVo said:


> You would think TiVo could work out a deal for a small monthly fee to have access to any program that was on broadcast television in case you missed recording it the first time for "free" due to error on your part, bad weather, local interruption, etc.


And which broadcaster do you think is going to allow that to happen? I can't think of one.


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

rainwater said:


> And which broadcaster do you think is going to allow that to happen? I can't think of one.


Any that are smart enough to think about the future and realize it was a great opportunity to recover from the ads in the broadcast that were being skipped by TiVo users with other TiVo friendly advertisements included in the download if you missed it program.

Any that consider their program is not in the top rating spot but their audience matches the TiVo demographic.

Any that want to generate buzz about their network and how they are developing programs for the future of TV.

Any that might want to augment broadcast programs with out takes, un broadcast episodes, programs that don't meet ratings restrictions, all in exchange for a second chance of additional TiVo based ad revenue.

Probably none....


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> And which broadcaster do you think is going to allow that to happen? I can't think of one.


all those deleted or additional scenes they have on the network website would be cool as well. Heck that should be a TiVocast option that shows up under season passes in my little geek dreams.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

rainwater said:


> And which broadcaster do you think is going to allow that to happen? I can't think of one.


Quite a few broadcast shows are already available on iTunes or XBox360.


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

Fofer said:


> This has been answered; this feature is for Series 2 and Series 3 boxes only.


Actually, it may say "for Series 2 and Series 3 boxes only" due to the fact that in general, Series 1 boxes cannot be hooked up to broadband.


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Well, sure, you can backup the data file to a DVD-R, and transport that to another PC running the Amazon Player.
> 
> When I was discussing "burning to DVD" I was thinking about burning it as a DVD-Video that could play in a standalone DVD player. _That_ is what's not possible right now with this service. Big difference between the two kinds of "burning."


burning it as a DVD-Video that could play in a standalone DVD player......thats what i was referring to as well. The "rules" tell about copying file in same format as it is on the player. But if it is downloaded to tivo...how is it different than any show recorded on tivo that can be "saved to vcr"....

I forgot about the Macro flags....


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mrjam2jab said:


> Actually, it may say "for Series 2 and Series 3 boxes only" due to the fact that in general, Series 1 boxes cannot be hooked up to broadband.


And the fact that S1s don't support TivoCasts.


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## jon01 (Jan 4, 2005)

so wait, is there a beta version for unbox/tivo? or is it just a beta to be able to watch the video on your pc?

- Jon


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tgibbs said:


> Quite a few broadcast shows are already available on iTunes or XBox360.


I didn't say broadcast shows aren't available for purchase. But if you think you are going to pay a monthly fee to get all the shows you want (and even get it at some discounted rate because you are a TiVo owner), then you will be wrong.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

doesn't one(or more) of the networks already have episodes of shows availible for download the next day off their site FOR FREE?


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## jon01 (Jan 4, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> doesn't one(or more) of the networks already have episodes of shows availible for download the next day off their site FOR FREE?


i'd say most networks do at this point.

- Jon


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## AtomicDecay (Sep 29, 2005)

garyR2 said:


> Will you have the ability to start playing the movie before it is fully downloaded?


You can currently start watching an Unbox video before it's finished downloading, so I'd think that would be possible on a TiVo too.

Since Unbox uses WMV, might that also become a supported format for TTG and MRV? I wouldn't be opposed to converting some of my clunky mpeg-2's over to a smaller WMV


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jon01 said:


> i'd say most networks do at this point.
> 
> - Jon


so why's it a stretch to think downloads straight to the tivo can happen one day?

Didn't they already make a trial deal with cbs?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

AtomicDecay said:


> You can currently start watching an Unbox video before it's finished downloading, so I'd think that would be possible on a TiVo too.
> 
> Since Unbox uses WMV, might that also become a supported format for TTG and MRV? I wouldn't be opposed to converting some of my clunky mpeg-2's over to a smaller WMV


The s2s can only playback MPEG2- so unless you download to your pc and then transcode you cant play windows media files on your tivo S2. That might be an option but the main gist seems to be download straight to the Tivo in which case its got to be an MPEG2.

The S3 on the other hand can handle MPEG4 and the Windows video format (whats it called - VNC?). So its possible that the S3 could handle those directly.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> so why's it a stretch to think downloads straight to the tivo can happen one day?
> 
> Didn't they already make a trial deal with cbs?


Networks do NOT make their shows available for download. They make them available for streaming from their site with appropriate adverts.

And most networks currently provide their shows on iTunes or Unbox for a fee. They aren't going to change this. They want to make money off of each download.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

AtomicDecay said:


> You can currently start watching an Unbox video before it's finished downloading, so I'd think that would be possible on a TiVo too.


 that is on a PC. TiVo will be using their own programs on the TiVo to get the download and what options it has. Currently TiVocast shows like rocketboom adn the like can not be played until the whole file is downloaded.


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## hongcho (Nov 26, 2003)

One problem I see with HD downloads for Unbox/TiVo service is the TiVo boxes. I don't think the majority of the TiVo out there can handle HD encodings.

Hong.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Networks do NOT make their shows available for download. They make them available for streaming from their site with appropriate adverts.
> 
> And most networks currently provide their shows on iTunes or Unbox for a fee. They aren't going to change this. They want to make money off of each download.


Download vs streaming - I know that the industry considers them differnetly but i think it's semantics.

Obviously if you can buy at unbox or itunes then they thing downloading can be secured with the proper DRM.

And who's to say that Tivo doesn't work out a deal to download WITH The ads. Or even Download with Ads you cant ffwd through (that I think is a stretch but one never knows).

Also- I'm not poitive but I am pretty sure I've seen a blurb about one or more of of the networks having commerical free streams (at least as experiments).

So why couldn't tivo get in on that? Thay would need to work out agreements and terms and all that, but i dont think it's completely impossible. (perhaps not so likley though i guess...???)


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> that is on a PC. TiVo will be using their own programs on the TiVo to get the download and what options it has. Currently TiVocast shows like rocketboom adn the like can not be played until the whole file is downloaded.


curious - anyone know why that is? MRV streams you can start to watch as it downloads so it's technically possible it would seem?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

hongcho said:


> One problem I see with HD downloads for Unbox/TiVo service is the TiVo boxes. I don't think the majority of the TiVo out there can handle HD encodings.
> 
> Hong.


of course not- none of the S2's can handle HD.

But for the S3's that can why not offer the option?

Why do the networks and movie studios bother with HD versions when the majority of TV's cant show them in HD? becasue some can and most likley becasue there's money to be made doing it at some point.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> curious - anyone know why that is? MRV streams you can start to watch as it downloads so it's technically possible it would seem?


Perhaps it can't be unencrypted until it has the complete file?


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> curious - anyone know why that is? MRV streams you can start to watch as it downloads so it's technically possible it would seem?


Probably because the software would have to assume that the rest of the file will continue to arrive at the same rate. Having a show stop because it has run out of its buffer looks very unprofessional. I've often seen this happen with web streaming video formats.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tgibbs said:


> Probably because the software would have to assume that the rest of the file will continue to arrive at the same rate. Having a show stop because it has run out of its buffer looks very unprofessional. I've often seen this happen with web streaming video formats.


TiVo actually handles playing back MRV transfers during the transfer and handles the situation fine when it runs out of buffer.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

rainwater said:


> TiVo actually handles playing back MRV transfers during the transfer and handles the situation fine when it runs out of buffer.


MRV transfers only have to move over your local network. It's a lot safer bet that the throughput on your home network will be reasonably constant than that the overall traffic on the internet and the load on TiVo/Amazon's servers will be constant.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

hongcho said:


> One problem I see with HD downloads for Unbox/TiVo service is the TiVo boxes. I don't think the majority of the TiVo out there can handle HD encodings.
> 
> Hong.


XBox360 offers many shows in both SD and HD versions.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Steve Palo said:


> Does anyone think that those of us Series 1 users with Turbonet (broadband, sort of) connections will be able to use the new service?





Fofer said:


> I can say with 99.3% certainty that they will not.


Let's bump that up to 100%. Sorry, but we have zero ability to support broadband features on Series1 units, regardless of what you may have done to add in broadband connectivity.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TiVoStephen said:


> Let's bump that up to 100%. Sorry, but we have zero ability to support broadband features on Series1 units, regardless of what you may have done to add in broadband connectivity.


You're killing me posting such unimportant drival! 

I say your name as the last poster and RAN to the thread hoping that you posted a link for an early access list!

Darn you!

Joking aside- I'm subscribed to this thread and waiting for any bits you might post- so if you do start a fresh one with details can you please post here to aim us over there asap? thanks!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Download vs streaming - I know that the industry considers them differnetly but i think it's semantics.


 not when you are negotiating what you can or can not provide to customers. so saying it is just semantics is facetious when you know the industry sees them differently


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tgibbs said:


> MRV transfers only have to move over your local network. It's a lot safer bet that the throughput on your home network will be reasonably constant than that the overall traffic on the internet and the load on TiVo/Amazon's servers will be constant.


Throughput has nothing to do with it. TiVo already knows how to handle it when transfers are slow. Trying doing MRV with Tivos a long way away on wireless-b adapters. Since they are transferred from beginning to end, the speed of the transfer only affects how much of the video you can watch at a certain time. If TiVo could let you watch Amazon Unbox videos while transferring, you can bet they would. I don't think speed has anything to do with TiVoCasts requiring the whole file be downloaded first.


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## mbalgeman (Feb 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> And most networks currently provide their shows on iTunes or Unbox for a fee. They aren't going to change this. They want to make money off of each download.


What's kinda annoying to me is that iTunes and Unbox only "sell" episodes of TV shows, they don't "rent" them. 99% of the time, I only want to be able to watch the episode I missed and don't care to watch it again at some time in the future. I'd love the option to rent an episode I missed for a buck with the same restrictions as a movie rental (start watching within 30 days, finish within 24 hours or start). But for $2 an episode for life? Meh. Or let me "rent" the episode for free by restrict my fast forwarding through the commercials like the streaming version does. (I know people will yell about that! )

For example, I missed the first 2 hour episode of 24 this season. If I could "rent" it for a buck or two, I probably would. If I could get it with restricted fast forwarding through commercials like the string version, I would be all over it. But $4? I'll just start with hour 3 and catch up via the previously on...

Another thought. I would love to be able to download shows that have been canceled, but are available through streaming. Vanished, Daybreak, etc. I'll never see the end because I don't want to watch TV on my computer. But let me get them on my TiVo with the fast forward restrictions and I'd be all over it.


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## KoG (Apr 20, 2002)

hongcho said:


> One problem I see with HD downloads for Unbox/TiVo service is the TiVo boxes. I don't think the majority of the TiVo out there can handle HD encodings.
> 
> Hong.


You're right, none of the S2 boxes can even output a HD signal so I don't think that will ever happen. But the S3 boxes can output HD and has a MPEG-4 decoder chip inside them. So maybe in the future they will offer HD using MPEG-4 encoding to cut down the download times.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Throughput has nothing to do with it. TiVo already knows how to handle it when transfers are slow.


Not speed _per se_, but _consistency_ of speed. For transfers over a home network, the TiVo can time the rate at which data is coming in, and figure out how much of a buffer it needs for you to be able to watch without interruption. But over the internet, it can't count that the data will continue to come in at the same rate, because the load on the servers may change or the traffic on the internet may change.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

tgibbs said:


> Not speed _per se_, but _consistency_ of speed. For transfers over a home network, the TiVo can time the rate at which data is coming in, and figure out how much of a buffer it needs for you to be able to watch without interruption. But over the internet, it can't count that the data will continue to come in at the same rate, because the load on the servers may change or the traffic on the internet may change.


They could get creative and have certain places pre-identified as insertion points and if the playback reaches an insertion point but there's not yet a full buffer of programming up to the next insertion point, it plays an interstitial video/commercial until enough has buffered again.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

tgibbs said:


> Not speed _per se_, but _consistency_ of speed. For transfers over a home network, the TiVo can time the rate at which data is coming in, and figure out how much of a buffer it needs for you to be able to watch without interruption. But over the internet, it can't count that the data will continue to come in at the same rate, because the load on the servers may change or the traffic on the internet may change.


I don't think so. When TiVo reaches the end of the available data, it simply pauses the playback. There is no way for TiVo to guarantee MRV playback without interruption unless the transfer is already completed.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

c3 said:


> I don't think so.  When TiVo reaches the end of the available data, it simply pauses the playback. There is no way for TiVo to guarantee MRV playback without interruption unless the transfer is already completed.


While there's always the chance of delays on a physical, local network, especially if wireless is involved, the overall transfer speed still is almost always higher than a public internet connection, and always much more reliably fast once a transfer is underway. At least for hardwired networks through a network switch (as opposed to a hub) TiVo's never going to saturate the link available to it.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Not 100% sure because I usually don't do it, and I'm not at home to try it, but I think this is what happens:

Start MRV transfer and playback. Hit advance. It pauses.

TiVo's code already deals with playback speed > transfer speed. It has to. No way to buffer this situation.


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## jstutman (May 19, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> they are not exactly looking for millions of people to flood the service on opening day


LoL. Apparently Amazon has never worked with Tivo before or they would know that the Tivo community is real. While we all might not use this new service. Like all new features/ The whole community will want to try the service. So IMHO if it survives launch day..... Amazon/Tivo will know if they screwed up or not.

Im a expecting a "half-ass" service in which Tivo will respond to its customers.
"what features do you want that will have you use our services over our competitions"

Course, being that we are in the DRM world, most features will not be implemented cause most will require no DRM or one that isnt being BigDaddy like "24 hours to view the video" "copy to dvd but not watch on dvd"

If I am buying a movie from you and your charging $12.99 and Wally-World has it on DVD for $13.99 (your not getting my money-wally is)

Why? because with a dvd- I can use it anymore-Mothers-Vacation-Jim Bobs (who supplies the beer)

Tv Shows I would do, only if it is HD Quality, bases off a community standard codec (not some horribly nasty embedded DRM codec)


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> not when you are negotiating what you can or can not provide to customers. so saying it is just semantics is facetious when you know the industry sees them differently


completely agree- just stating my thoughts. And kind of pondering why they think it's so different?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

tgibbs said:


> Not speed _per se_, but _consistency_ of speed. For transfers over a home network, the TiVo can time the rate at which data is coming in, and figure out how much of a buffer it needs for you to be able to watch without interruption. But over the internet, it can't count that the data will continue to come in at the same rate, because the load on the servers may change or the traffic on the internet may change.


but why does it matter if they can calculate a buffer for uninterrupted viewing? For MRV it doesn't calculate a buffer and force you to create that buffer before watching- does it?

So it's not like they are doing that on MRV and not on Tivocast. So what's different in the implementation besides them arbitrarily assigning rules to one and not the other? Is there anything?

Actually I could be completely wrong but I don't think you have to use mrv to watch right away. I need to double check but I am fairly certain the new TiVo.Net play anything on your tivo server does NOT use MRV. I believe that uses the goback protocol and NOT the mrv protocol. That actually transcodes basically any non tivo playable files into tivo acceptable mpeg2 files and then pipes the output to the goback protocol directly. So there's a million variables there and yet you can play back as soon as you start the transcode and if you catch up to it then it just pauses.

Does anyone know if tivocast uses the same fundamentals as goback? Or do they have 3 separate functions protocols? (goback, mrv, and tivocast?)


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> but why does it matter if they can calculate a buffer for uninterrupted viewing? For MRV it doesn't calculate a buffer and force you to create that buffer before watching- does it?


Any streaming protocol requires a buffer, unless it is absolutely certain that the material can be streamed faster than you can view it, which is generally not the case with high quality video. If you run out of buffer, then what happens is it pauses when it runs out of data, then it gets a bit more data, plays half a second or so, pauses, plays another half second, pauses, plays another half second, pauses, etc., etc. This is essentially unwatchable.

If the data can be relied upon to come in at a consistent rate, then it is possible for the device to calculate how much data it needs to have in its buffer so that you will be able to watch the whole thing without it running out of data and pausing. But if the data cannot be relied upon to arrive at a consistent rate, then there is no sure way of avoiding this.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> but why does it matter if they can calculate a buffer for uninterrupted viewing? For MRV it doesn't calculate a buffer and force you to create that buffer before watching- does it?
> 
> So it's not like they are doing that on MRV and not on Tivocast. So what's different in the implementation besides them arbitrarily assigning rules to one and not the other? Is there anything?
> 
> ...


3 seperate protocols:
*MRV* - Home networked TiVos sharing content that the TiVo software has absolute control over (ie they know everything there is to know about it because the TiVo boxes are creating it). This is protocol based on best case scenarios: they're guaranteeing a home network - machines must be on the same subnet, the content is already in the native machine format, and the software is under TiVo control at both ends.
*TTG/TTCB* - Sending content from a tivo to another device on a home network(TTG), and from a device to the TiVo(TTCB). This scenario has the advantage of also taking place on a home network (ie, the implementation counts on it, although there are ways to move the bits over the public internet. ) So, the TiVo can expect the bits to arrive reasonably fast enough that as long as the cache doesn't totally empty, playback can happen. However, because the serving device is not another tivo, it may introduce anomalies into the process (speed, quality, actual errors, etc.)
*TiVoCast* - this protocol I haven't examined closely yet, but we know it must be designed to deliver relatively large amounts of data over consumer grade bandwidth, over the public internet. Here's a quote from TiVoStephen that explains a little about what's going on different between mrv/ttg and TiVoCast.


> While not ideal, that's how TiVoCast has always worked, and unfortunately that's how it will work indefinitely. I'm not enough of an expert to tell you all of the technical reasons, but that's how our infrastructure is designed. We send the file in a particular encrypted and compressed format, and the decompression and unencryption can only occur once the download is complete.
> 
> On the plus side, our average subscriber is able to download an average TiVoCast episode for (for example) Rocketboom in about 12 minutes, so you don't have to wait too long.


So they're adding encryption and compression of some form (mpeg2 is already compressed, so this aspect is interesting). I haven't yet done the numbers on what an average RocketBoom is in size after transferring, which would give us a rough speed measure.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

tgibbs said:


> Any streaming protocol requires a buffer, unless it is absolutely certain that the material can be streamed faster than you can view it, which is generally not the case with high quality video. If you run out of buffer, then what happens is it pauses when it runs out of data, then it gets a bit more data, plays half a second or so, pauses, plays another half second, pauses, plays another half second, pauses, etc., etc. This is essentially unwatchable.
> 
> If the data can be relied upon to come in at a consistent rate, then it is possible for the device to calculate how much data it needs to have in its buffer so that you will be able to watch the whole thing without it running out of data and pausing. But if the data cannot be relied upon to arrive at a consistent rate, then there is no sure way of avoiding this.


serious question- I thought that Tivo copied the content (at the ire of many of the indutry players) rather then streamed it for just such reasons. Are you saying that copies are basically handled the same as streaming?

Again you can MRV or Tivo.net content over a network that is SLOWER then real time. You can give it a minute head start (the tivo doesn't enforce that) and then watch and you might catch up to all it has and it will pause. You can keep hitting play and have it give you a second and die again and again and again as you describe. I guess tivo figures most people will take the hint and walk away for a bit or watch something else.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

gonzotek said:


> 3 seperate protocols:
> *MRV* - Home networked TiVos sharing content that the TiVo software has absolute control over (ie they know everything there is to know about it because the TiVo boxes are creating it). This is protocol based on best case scenarios: they're guaranteeing a home network - machines must be on the same subnet, the content is already in the native machine format, and the software is under TiVo control at both ends.
> *TTG/TTCB* - Sending content from a tivo to another device on a home network(TTG), and from a device to the TiVo(TTCB). This scenario has the advantage of also taking place on a home network (ie, the implementation counts on it, although there are ways to move the bits over the public internet. ) So, the TiVo can expect the bits to arrive reasonably fast enough that as long as the cache doesn't totally empty, playback can happen. However, because the serving device is not another tivo, it may introduce anomalies into the process (speed, quality, actual errors, etc.)
> *TiVoCast* - this protocol I haven't examined closely yet, but we know it must be designed to deliver relatively large amounts of data over consumer grade bandwidth, over the public internet. Here's a quote from TiVoStephen that explains a little about what's going on different between mrv/ttg and TiVoCast.
> So they're adding encryption and compression of some form (mpeg2 is already compressed, so this aspect is interesting). I haven't yet done the numbers on what an average RocketBoom is in size after transferring, which would give us a rough speed measure.


thanks very much for the facts. I guess that about sums it up then...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tgibbs said:


> Any streaming protocol requires a buffer, unless it is absolutely certain that the material can be streamed faster than you can view it, which is generally not the case with high quality video.


Wow, this discussion has gone way off topic. First off, MRV/TTG/TiVoCasts aren't streaming protocols. When you play videos from the TiVo for current transfers it only plays downloaded content that has already been saved to the hard drive. Discussing the merits of whether TiVo can show TiVoCasts while they are being downloaded is fine. But saying streaming has anything to do with it is absurd.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

tgibbs said:


> If you run out of buffer, then what happens is it pauses when it runs out of data, then it gets a bit more data, plays half a second or so, pauses, plays another half second, pauses, plays another half second, pauses, etc., etc.


TiVo does not work like that. When it runs out of data, it pauses and does not continue.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

c3 said:


> TiVo does not work like that. When it runs out of data, it pauses and does not continue.


So then the user has to keep hitting play, and it only plays a few seconds and gets hung again. This is a very unprofessional way for something to work.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

tgibbs said:


> So then the user has to keep hitting play, and it only plays a few seconds and gets hung again. This is a very unprofessional way for something to work.


What would you have it do?

I extensively use MRV between the 3 S2's in the house (and hope to include the S3 soon) and think that it works pretty great. If you're getting a less than realtime transfer (it happens when the LAN gets bogged down sometimes), then you just leave it paused and give it a few minutes for the transfer to get out ahead of where you are...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

tgibbs said:


> So then the user has to keep hitting play, and it only plays a few seconds and gets hung again. This is a very unprofessional way for something to work.


So what is your "professional" way to handle this situation, when it is *impossible* to know when the next block of data will be available? You said yourself that the stop and go method is "unwatchable".


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tgibbs said:


> So then the user has to keep hitting play, and it only plays a few seconds and gets hung again. This is a very unprofessional way for something to work.


No its not. Its the only way that lets you watch it at full resolution without it being down converted on the fly. This is how TiVos work and how they have worked since MRV was created. And the system works just fine.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rainwater said:


> No its not. Its the only way that lets you watch it at full resolution without it being down converted on the fly. This is how TiVos work and how they have worked since MRV was created. And the system works just fine.


But the whole point is that it's much more reliable to depend upon consistent transfer speeds high enough to get the program no slower than real time over a local network than over the internet. MRV was designed for use over the local network, not over the internet, and as such things like letting people begin playing back the video before the transfer was finished were permitted. The opposite is true with TiVoCast video transfers; and guess when those can start being played... 

As transfer speeds for the public internet increase, those sorts of decisions might be made differently. But the concept of >10mbps download speeds in the home and the infrastructure to allow those speeds to be attained continuously for many users simultaneously are a comparatively recent development.

But remember it was not that long ago that we jsut crossed the threshold with more than half the internet users having a broadband speed connection isntead of a dialup speed connection. And "broadband speed" is pretty loosely defined.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Local network can be very slow, especially if you have USB1 adapters and 802.11b. The TiVo software *has* to deal with transfer speed << playback requirement.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dswallow said:


> But the whole point is that it's much more reliable to depend upon consistent transfer speeds high enough to get the program no slower than real time over a local network than over the internet.


You are talking about transferring faster than watching in real-time. While that is nice, that has nothing to do with TiVoCast. As already posted on this forum, the issue is the fact that the videos are not unencrypted until after a completed download. Whether or not you can watch the program in real-time has nothing do with anything. The TiVo software already handles the situation and if possible, TiVo would be doing it for TiVoCasts (but technical issues unrelated to downloading is the reason).


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## jon01 (Jan 4, 2005)

so any word on when we can use this new service? i cant wait!!

- Jon


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

"Soon." 

You may have noted this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340623

As has been disclosed, we're beta testing this new service currently.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Will there be any "Free Programs" to download from Amazon Unbox??? I was checking out the Amazon web site saw that you have to pay for cartoons(The Flintstones, Jetsons etc I think these should be free like Comcast Ondemand shows. Movies are different if you want a movie you should have to pay a price.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

timstack8969 said:


> Will there be any "Free Programs" to download from Amazon Unbox??? I was checking out the Amazon web site saw that you have to pay for cartoons(The Flintstones, Jetsons etc I think these should be free like Comcast Ondemand shows. Movies are different if you want a movie you should have to pay a price.


There are some free items on Amazon Unbox from time to time. I don't see why that content wouldn't be available to TiVo's too.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

timstack8969 said:


> I think these should be free


Yes, and I want a pony!


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

timstack8969 said:


> Will there be any "Free Programs" to download from Amazon Unbox??? I was checking out the Amazon web site saw that you have to pay for cartoons(The Flintstones, Jetsons etc I think these should be free like Comcast Ondemand shows. Movies are different if you want a movie you should have to pay a price.


Comcast OnDemand shows aren't "free." They're included with your monthly fee. Amazon Unbox doesn't have a monthly fee.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I look at it were paying for the "TIVO" service like Comcast services it should be free!!!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

There is some free content if you look around hard enough.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

"Some" free content is perhaps just a bit misleading at the moment. 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_ex_n/105-0209974-6906829?ie=UTF8&sort=price&rh=n:16261641&page=1


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

timstack8969 said:


> I look at it were paying for the "TIVO" service like Comcast services it should be free!!!


But the content is coming from Amazon, not TiVo.

When it kicks into high gear I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon offers up a few free videos, as sort of like a demo of the service.

In the meantime, "paying for TiVo" has nothing to do with it. That's like saying Apex should send me free movies because I bought their DVD Player.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> "Some" free content is perhaps just a bit misleading at the moment.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_ex_n/105-0209974-6906829?ie=UTF8&sort=price&rh=n:16261641&page=1


Heh. One, single episode of "Two-A-Days?"

Wow, that's "some" free content!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Heh. One, single episode of "Two-A-Days?"
> 
> Wow, that's "some" free content!


Yes, but they do run specials that offer free episodes of shows, especially new ones. They are only running one right now, but it changes.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

timstack8969 said:


> I look at it were paying for the "TIVO" service like Comcast services it should be free!!!


so we should up the TiVo bill to the same amount paid to comcast each month ?

though actually I have said 19$ for 15 hours of content - TiVo could tack that on to my TiVo bill and let ne get the free 15 hours in shows or movies that only last 48 hours after I satrt watching and it would be exactly the service I would get a lot of use out of


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so we should up the TiVo bill to the same amount paid to comcast each month ?
> 
> though actually I have said 19$ for 15 hours of content - TiVo could tack that on to my TiVo bill and let ne get the free 15 hours in shows or movies that only last 48 hours after I satrt watching and it would be exactly the service I would get a lot of use out of


It's funny... people whine about wanting a la carte pricing; when you give it to them, they whine about wanting quantity discounts/package pricing.

(Not directed at "you"; just in general )

If this takes off, every series you might want from any pay cable channel or network might be available; what if you could live just with OTA channels and the occasional downloaded episodes? How much would it add up to compared to the alternatives of base rates plus premium packages to get the necessary channels via cable or satellite?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dswallow said:


> It's funny... people whine about wanting a la carte pricing; when you give it to them, they whine about wanting quantity discounts/package pricing.
> 
> (Not directed at "you"; just in general )


yep, both pricing models will have their proponents. and this is the brave new world into selcting your content more deliberately I think.

Grandpa - Dad says you used to have 280 channels that played stuff 24 hours a day.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Well, I got a little bored, so I thought I'd go look and see what's available on Unbox so maybe I'd start getting excited about this deal.

Not so much. This is in no way scientific, but the 20 or so movies I looked at (all sci-fi/fantasy or action flicks made in the last 4 years), none of them had surround sound. Every single one was listed as two channel audio.

No thanks. I'll rent DVDs and get a real audio experience rather than this. The one thing I did see was some current series. I might consider paying $1.99 for a show that the TiVo missed for some reason. But right now that's about it.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

18 days between posts. I'm surprised folks aren't more excited about this. I hope its out soon. I'm looking forward to ordering movies from the comfort of my couch (err computer chair). 

I wonder what TiVo's cut will be on say a $3.99 or $4.99 rental charge.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I'm excited, but would rather wait and see it in action first, than wax poetic about feature requests and complain about imagined pitfalls.

And so I wait.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

One of my coworkers is betaing this. He seems relatively happy with the service, but then he gets it for free while it's in beta. He's not sure if he'll keep it afterward.


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## eingybear (Feb 9, 2005)

I am hoping for a bigger selection of tv shows and the ability to purchase "season passes" so that I can get rid of cable entirely (since a lot of shows I watch are available OTA with the series 3). In particular, shows from BBCAmerica, G4, Bravo, and Sci-Fi would be sorely missed if I could bid Comcast good-bye.

I can't wait for this to hit! Even if all the shows I want initially are not there yet, I am eager to try it out.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Bai Shen said:


> He's not sure if he'll keep it afterward.


whats there to "keep"? You either order movies/TV shows or your don't.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Bai Shen said:


> but then he gets it for free while it's in beta.


Wow, cool for the beta testers. I wonder if they'll get to keep the recordings even after the beta is over. And I wonder if there's a limit to the number of titles they can download while it's in beta.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Fofer said:


> I'm excited, but would rather wait and see it in action first, than wax poetic about feature requests and complain about imagined pitfalls.


Fair enough. I suppose I can do that too.


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

I just signed up on Amazon.com and my first video download is in progress! Tivo + unbox is alive, you can go give it a try now.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

Yes, it's online. I got their free $15 credit and promptly started a couple of downloads on a pair of S3's. Indeed TiVo + unBox is alive!


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Downloading "The Animatrix, Final Flight of the Osiris" now for $0.99.


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## Animgif (Jan 4, 2002)

I purchased one on Amazon....how long do they take to start downloading?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Animgif said:


> I purchased one on Amazon....how long do they take to start downloading?


Within 15 minutes of purchase it should start downloading.


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## Animgif (Jan 4, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Within 15 minutes of purchase it should start downloading.


Hrm...that didn't happen. Any troubleshooting suggestions?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Animgif said:


> Hrm...that didn't happen. Any troubleshooting suggestions?


Make sure your TiVo is running the latest software version...

8.1a for Series 2
8.1.1 for Series 3

Make sure your TiVo can get out on the internet.

Double-check the TSN's of the TiVo you sent the Unbox video to.


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## Animgif (Jan 4, 2002)

Hrmmm....took exactly 30. Odd. But, hey, it started!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Sent Stranger than Fiction to my TiVo (at a tortoise paced 768kb). Should be done when I get home. 

Anyone know if there will be a way to find out how long a download took....either on the TiVo or from Amazon Unobox' website?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jlb said:


> Sent Stranger than Fiction to my TiVo (at a tortoise paced 768kb). Should be done when I get home.
> 
> Anyone know if there will be a way to find out how long a download took....either on the TiVo or from Amazon Unobox' website?


The downloaded video will show the time it was fully received on your receiver. So just note the time the transfer began/begins.


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## aringhof (Feb 15, 2007)

the best part about this service is it is truly a la carte... we currently have our Series 2 connected to our digital cable box, so we can order movies on demand, or watch howard stern on demand, and then record those episodes to the Tivo. And since its a series 2, we can then re-record those to a DVD... its a painful process, so we only make DVDs for kid movies for the car.... with the Unbox service, its great because its a web based ordering system... you dont have to browse to a certain channel, set the tivo timer to record it, or dial into anything... you simply rent or buy the movie, and it magically appears in yoru program list... bottom line is, this is a great service just for the conveinance


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

dswallow said:


> The downloaded video will show the time it was fully received on your receiver. So just note the time the transfer began/begins.


I am at work so I'll have to use the start time as app 9-9:30......about when I "purchased".....

On the 24 hours for a rental.......is it 24 hours from the time the file was fully received or 24 hours from the time you start watching it......??????


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jlb said:


> I am at work so I'll have to use the start time as app 9-9:30......about when I "purchased".....
> 
> On the 24 hours for a rental.......is it 24 hours from the time the file was fully received or 24 hours from the time you start watching it......??????


the rental, as I understand it, stays on your tivo for 30 days, but you have 24 hours to watch it from the time you first hit "play."


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jlb said:


> I am at work so I'll have to use the start time as app 9-9:30......about when I "purchased".....
> 
> On the 24 hours for a rental.......is it 24 hours from the time the file was fully received or 24 hours from the time you start watching it......??????


You have 24 hours from the time you begin to view the rental before it'll disappear; the rental will stay on your TiVo for a maximum of 30 days, so you have to begin watching the rental such that you can finish watching it before the 30 days is over, or you'll be out of luck.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

FWIW, my first unbox download has completed - the time shown in the program description is approximately the time I ordered the video - 7:30 AM. I know it was downloading for a few hours after that time.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

pdhenry said:


> FWIW, my first unbox download has completed - the time shown in the program description is approximately the time I ordered the video - 7:30 AM. I know it was downloading for a few hours after that time.


Interesting. I sure hope we'd get the full 24 hours to view rentals though. If a network glitch or slowness caused a download to take, say, 5 hours, I'd hate to think we only have 19 now to watch it.


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## hyachts (Jan 4, 2005)

Fofer said:


> Interesting. I sure hope we'd get the full 24 hours to view rentals though. If a network glitch or slowness caused a download to take, say, 5 hours, I'd hate to think we only have 19 now to watch it.


I think you're mixing up two restrictions. The 24 hr limit starts when you first start to play the video. The 30 days is (presumably) from the time reflected in the video data. That being said, if a video took an exceptionally long time to download you could possibly lose part of a day out of that 30.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

hyachts said:


> I think you're mixing up two restrictions. The 24 hr limit starts when you first start to play the video. The 30 days is (presumably) from the time reflected in the video data. That being said, if a video took an exceptionally long time to download you could possibly lose part of a day out of that 30.


What if you start playing a half hour into the download and then there's a glitch that delays it from finishing?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

hyachts said:


> I think you're mixing up two restrictions. The 24 hr limit starts when you first start to play the video. The 30 days is (presumably) from the time reflected in the video data. That being said, if a video took an exceptionally long time to download you could possibly lose part of a day out of that 30.


Gotcha.



cherry ghost said:


> What if you start playing a half hour into the download and then there's a glitch that delays it from finishing?


I wasn't sure about this... are you even able to start watching a movie that isn't 100% done with downloading?


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> whats there to "keep"? You either order movies/TV shows or your don't.


He's unsure if he'll order videos. Is that better?


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Wow, cool for the beta testers. I wonder if they'll get to keep the recordings even after the beta is over. And I wonder if there's a limit to the number of titles they can download while it's in beta.


There is. I think he only gets 1 or 2 a wk. And I think his are counted as rentals, not purchases.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> I wasn't sure about this... are you even able to start watching a movie that isn't 100% done with downloading?


The download must fully complete before you can begin watching. There is apparently enough feedback to Amazon when a download doesn't fully complete so you're able to reinitiate the download, too.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I'm excited, but would rather wait and see it in action first, than wax poetic about feature requests and complain about imagined pitfalls.
> 
> And so I wait.


start waxing.....


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Bai Shen said:


> He's unsure if he'll order videos. Is that better?


yes much better. It makes sense now.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

BlackBetty said:


> start waxing.....


I have, in this thread.

I can see myself renting when I'm really eager to see a title, like, right now... for immediate gratification. A silly title that I'd only be interested in once.

But I doubt I'd pay to BUY anything when for similar $$ outlay I could get a better quality original DVD, with all the extras.

Or how about, let me download it free... if I've already bought the actual disk via Amazon?

I want to like this new service, I really do. I like the convenience and the consistency of the TiVo UI (and single "Now Playing" list.)

But the economics of it don't make much sense to me. After the novelty wears off I suspect I won't be using it much. They'd have to get much better selection (and searching tools) and the prices would have to come down, as well.

They also REALLY need to add a way to search/request downloads directly from the TiVo itself. Maybe via an HME app? Because lots of folks have expressed the desire to use the TV for the entire experience. Why should I have to get up and go to the office, to download a movie to enjoy in the living room? (Yes, I have a laptop... I'm just illustrating an example.)


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I have, in this thread.
> 
> I can see myself renting when I'm really eager to see a title, like, right now... for immediate gratification. A silly title that I'd only be interested in once.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on:

1) needs better selection
2) TiVo app to let you search and order from your TiVo remote

I don't agree with you on the pricing. I think $3.99 is fair for rentals. Or were you only referring to the purchase price? I do agree with you that $14.99 is outrageous and I see no need to purchase a digital copy sent over the internet. Just rent it!


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

BlackBetty said:


> I agree with you on:
> 
> 1) needs better selection
> 2) TiVo app to let you search and order from your TiVo remote
> ...


Yes, I was referring to purchase price. Especially considering the actual DVD has better A/V quality and more features (many of which I really enjoy.)

And $3.99 is the absolute MAXIMUM I would pay for rental. I'd only consider more if it was some first-run exclusive, early availability title or something. Amazon/TiVo have an opportunity to create a brand new "window" for film distribution here. Hell, I'd pay $20 to "rent" a movie on opening night!

But as is stands now, impulse rental... or $2 TV show downloads for eps I missed... are the only things I'd consider... merely for their convenience. I will not pay more than $10 to "buy" anything that's lesser quality and "trapped" on my TiVo!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I will not pay more than $10 to "buy" anything that's lesser quality and "trapped" on my TiVo!


Technically, you can have a purchase on your TiVo, PC, and 2 portable devices at once. So I wouldn't say "trapped".


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

rainwater said:


> Technically, you can have a purchase on your TiVo, PC, and 2 portable devices at once. So I wouldn't say "trapped".


Hi, I'm a Mac fan. Happy with my iMacs, MacBook Pros, iPods...

So yeah, I'd say "trapped."

Not to mention there's something nice about having the physical DVD (with it's better A/V quality, as well as all of the special features) sitting on my shelf, for maximum compatibility and portability.

Sell the Unbox downloads for no more than $8 or so, and then we'll talk. Once they approach $12, we're in "real" DVD territory!


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

Fofer said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> I wasn't sure about this... are you even able to start watching a movie that isn't 100% done with downloading?


No you can not. It has to be 100% done


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## Lyrical1 (Oct 13, 2002)

Quick bit of clarification please: So, even if I purchase Roxio's TivoToGo software I still cannot move my Unbox download to my Macintosh? 

I thought that purchasing the Roxio Toast software (for $60 or $70) was the thing that would enable me to bring my downloaded shows (whether from Comcast or from Unbox) with me on my Powerbook. 

If this is the unfortunate case, is there an Unbox discussion thread specifically for solving this bug for Macintosh users? Thanks.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Lyrical1 said:


> Quick bit of clarification please: So, even if I purchase Roxio's TivoToGo software I still cannot move my Unbox download to my Macintosh?
> 
> I thought that purchasing the Roxio Toast software (for $60 or $70) was the thing that would enable me to bring my downloaded shows (whether from Comcast or from Unbox) with me on my Powerbook.
> 
> If this is the unfortunate case, is there an Unbox discussion thread specifically for solving this bug for Macintosh users? Thanks.


Unbox video downloads to TiVo receivers cannot leave the TiVo receiver by any means except by recording it out of the analog outputs of the receiver. Unbox can separately download to a Windows PC or to certain PDA devices.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I'm curious, the Unbox downloads to a PC... can _those_ be burned to DVD?


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## Lyrical1 (Oct 13, 2002)

From your response, then, I understand that I can take anything that is on my TiVo (regardless of whether it came as a standard Comcast recording or an Unbox download) and take the real-time required to play the digital recording, convert it to an analog signal internally in the TiVo via the RCA pin plugs, convert it to digital through an external box (like something from Canopus) so it comes into my Mac via Firewire, so that I can record it to my hard drive?

That seems to be a terrible solution for people who want to take the recordings they've paid for with them. It does make me wonder "What were they thinking?"

However, if I have a Windows machine I can download Unbox recordings directly to the PC.

Why would TiVo or Amazon be so disinterested in Mac users? Since there's a USB port on the TiVo it would be so simple to transfer recordings via USB to a PC or a Mac. Of course, that suggestion may make way too much sense.

Thank you for the informative reply.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Lyrical1 said:


> Why would TiVo or Amazon be so disinterested in Mac users? Since there's a USB port on the TiVo it would be so simple to transfer recordings via USB to a PC or a Mac. Of course, that suggestion may make way too much sense.


I doubt it's so much being disinterested as it is being restricted by the content owners and focusing their initial efforts where they believe the largest market exists. They use Windows DRM right now, as well as whatever TiVo provides. Maybe they'll extend it to the Mac, or maybe Microsoft will eventually provide their DRM solution on the Mac OS.

Or maybe the content owners will stop all the DRM crap.


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## Globular (Jun 9, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Or maybe the content owners will stop all the DRM crap.


Har! Good one. Nice to start the week off with a laugh.

-Matt


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I'm curious, the Unbox downloads to a PC... can _those_ be burned to DVD?


Not AFAIK.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

Lyrical1 said:


> Quick bit of clarification please: So, even if I purchase Roxio's TivoToGo software I still cannot move my Unbox download to my Macintosh?
> 
> I thought that purchasing the Roxio Toast software (for $60 or $70) was the thing that would enable me to bring my downloaded shows (whether from Comcast or from Unbox) with me on my Powerbook.
> 
> If this is the unfortunate case, is there an Unbox discussion thread specifically for solving this bug for Macintosh users? Thanks.


Except for Unbox shows, Roxio Toast will let you download any other shows from your Tivo to your networked Mac. It works very well.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dswallow said:


> They use Windows DRM right now, as well as whatever TiVo provides. Maybe they'll extend it to the Mac, or maybe Microsoft will eventually provide their DRM solution on the Mac OS.


maybe Roxio will morph into a Mac DRM company


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> maybe Roxio will morph into a Mac DRM company


Even I wouldn't wish that upon the Mac world.


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## peggylenox (Dec 30, 2003)

Well, I'm confused! I have been in the process of recordinging with Tivo all the original Star Trek episodes -- all 80. I was down to 4 remaining when I was out of town and discovered that Time Warner had been out for several days just when 3 of the 4 were on. So, I didn't get them! Rats. Today, I signed on for Unbox and downloaded one of the episodes. When I tried to transfer it to my PC via Tivo Desktop, I was told that it was write protected and couldn't be transfered. What I have been doing is sending all the episodes to an external hard drive, not trying to record them to disks. So, how do I send them directly to my PC from Amazon? Am I just being dense? Thanks,


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

peggylenox said:


> Well, I'm confused! I have been in the process of recordinging with Tivo all the original Star Trek episodes -- all 80. I was down to 4 remaining when I was out of town and discovered that Time Warner had been out for several days just when 3 of the 4 were on. So, I didn't get them! Rats. Today, I signed on for Unbox and downloaded one of the episodes. When I tried to transfer it to my PC via Tivo Desktop, I was told that it was write protected and couldn't be transfered. What I have been doing is sending all the episodes to an external hard drive, not trying to record them to disks. So, how do I send them directly to my PC from Amazon? Am I just being dense? Thanks,


You go to Amazon Unbox and click on your Unbox videos and click the episode you want. From there you can request download to your PC (if it is registered with Unbox) Doing this locks up one of your two licenses to that PC, and unless you want to watch on the PC there is not much point to doing it.

You can re-download any of your Unbox vids to any of your TiVoes at any time, and free up the license(s) by deleting them from the TiVoes (incl. from recently deleted folder). That way TiVo storage is not a problem - Amazon stores your episodes for you!

http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/03/07/escape-unbox-pergatory/


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Even I wouldn't wish that upon the Mac world.


I can't speak for Roxio's corporate policies, but I hear Roxio's "Creator" product for Windows is pretty bad.

I will say that Roxio's flagship product for the Mac, Toast, is actually very well-regarded. Some history from here:



> Toasts history goes back more than a decade; it was originally developed by Dr. Markus Fest and distributed by Astarte as an expensive, high-end application before CD burners were common devices. In 1997 Astarte sold Toast to Adaptec, which continued development and brought it to Mac OS X with version 5.1 in 2001. It was then transferred to Adaptecs software division, Roxio, which continues selling it to this day.


It has an elegant (and powerful) interface and is very easy to use.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> I can't speak for Roxio's corporate policies, but I hear Roxio's "Creator" product for Windows is pretty bad.


Roxio can't produce anything original that doesn't end up being complete crap. They can only buy stuff from other companies and slowly turn anything that might've been good into complete crap. Corel CD Creator was sold to Adaptec who merged it into the Easy CD Creator product they'd previously bought from Incat Systems then spun off Roxio with the CD recording products. Roxio then sold off their consumer products division to Sonic Solutions, including the Roxio name, what was Roxio then turned itself into Napster. Roxio is like Symantec, but bad. They produce nothing original; instead they patch together stuff they acquire from others, and usually not very well.

If Toast is still working well, more power to it, but my money's on Roxio eventually ruining it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> If Toast is still working well, more power to it, but my money's on Roxio eventually ruining it.


I wouldn't be surprised about that... but I will say, for now at least, the last couple of upgrades have been very nice. I think they brought over many of the programmers when they acquired the product. I look at these upgrades with a keen eye and so far Toast hasn't yet faltered. It's likely their "Mac" team is seperate with different sensibilities, sort of analogous to the Macintosh BU working on Office at Microsoft. (Interesting peek  here. Well, interesting to me at least.)


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## ormancc (Jun 13, 2002)

I have downloaded three rentals using the Amazon/TiVo system. One came through just fine, the other two came through with good video, but NO SOUND. A representative at the Amazon Unbox support line said that this a known problem with the system and that they are working on it. Has anyone else had this problem and, if so, have they been able to do anything to fix it. Thanks.


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## lynustivo (Jun 5, 2005)

My first download (finally) is coming in at this very moment and if I have problems I'll post. I have noticed two problems thus far with this new feature. 1) There is a big time delay from when you submit the order to when the starts transferring to your Tivo (mine was about 10 minutes) and 2) you cannot view the purchase/rental until after it completely downloads. The latter I think is a big "con" about this service which is why the promotion indicates that you "purchase it at work and have it waiting for you upon your return home". Hopefully in the future you can watch it as it transfers similar to how you can watch a video when transferring it from PC to Tivo or across Tivo's in your home network. But so far I love this idea! It may not replace Netflix at the moment but it is a nice addition!


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

lynustivo said:


> My first download (finally) is coming in at this very moment and if I have problems I'll post. I have noticed two problems thus far with this new feature. 1) There is a big time delay from when you submit the order to when the starts transferring to your Tivo (mine was about 10 minutes) and 2) you cannot view the purchase/rental until after it completely downloads. The latter I think is a big "con" about this service which is why the promotion indicates that you "purchase it at work and have it waiting for you upon your return home". Hopefully in the future you can watch it as it transfers similar to how you can watch a video when transferring it from PC to Tivo or across Tivo's in your home network.


Your problem 1 can't be helped. Amazon has no way of contacting your TiVo; things have to wait until your TiVo knows to contact Amazon. Your TiVo checks in with a TiVo server every 15 minutes and will then find out it needs to contact Amazon to download a show.

I'd also be surprised if problem 2 is changed. I think it's probably a choice between their billing policy or watching only after finish. At the moment, they'll give refunds, or allow you to download over again if your initial download failed. If they offered watching when not finished, then people could watch the first 29 minutes of a 30 minute TV episode, then interrupt the transfer and not pay Amazon.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

peggylenox said:


> Well, I'm confused! I have been in the process of recordinging with Tivo all the original Star Trek episodes -- all 80. I was down to 4 remaining when I was out of town and discovered that Time Warner had been out for several days just when 3 of the 4 were on. So, I didn't get them! Rats. Today, I signed on for Unbox and downloaded one of the episodes. When I tried to transfer it to my PC via Tivo Desktop, I was told that it was write protected and couldn't be transfered. What I have been doing is sending all the episodes to an external hard drive, not trying to record them to disks. So, how do I send them directly to my PC from Amazon? Am I just being dense? Thanks,


Well, I'm jealous that you were able to even get 76 of them! So far, no stations in my area are playing the whole TOS. I've been watching the channel guides hoping.
The fact that Unbox offers them is tantalizing.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> ...
> 
> I'd also be surprised if problem 2 is changed. I think it's probably a choice between their billing policy or watching only after finish. At the moment, they'll give refunds, or allow you to download over again if your initial download failed. If they offered watching when not finished, then people could watch the first 29 minutes of a 30 minute TV episode, then interrupt the transfer and not pay Amazon.


there's a post around here from tivostephen. It's actually a alimitation of their technology. Something about the entire download needing to be complete so the box can then decrypt it.


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> there's a post around here from tivostephen. It's actually a alimitation of their technology. Something about the entire download needing to be complete so the box can then decrypt it.


Sounds more like a limitation of the _design_, not a limitation of the _technology_.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

MighTiVo said:


> Sounds more like a limitation of the _design_, not a limitation of the _technology_.


better way to describe it. Partiularly since MRV and Tivo-to-come-back (whatever it's called) dont have that limitation.


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

Well I do not care to play it while it is downloading, especially if I am going to catch up with the download and I have to wait for it to fill up buffers again.

I have had a few downloads and I watched them. Very happy with it. It worked just fine. I can decide to download something I want to watch at the weekend or that evening and it will be on when I get home. Now if only I could get some European programs on it...


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> better way to describe it. Partiularly since MRV and Tivo-to-come-back (whatever it's called) dont have that limitation.


Yup. Nor does Unbox to PC.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Fofer said:


> But as is stands now, impulse rental... or $2 TV show downloads for eps I missed... are the only things I'd consider... merely for their convenience. I will not pay more than $10 to "buy" anything that's lesser quality and "trapped" on my TiVo!


Just drop a DVD into your DVD burner, select save to vcr, and you're all set...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> Just drop a DVD into your DVD burner, select save to vcr, and you're all set...


Innerestin'.

Yeah, I've been shopping for a DVD Recorder for a while now. Will probably pick up cheapie that has a VCR in it too, for any last remaining VHS transferring... and equipment consolidation purposes, too.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Do Amazon unbox movies come in wide screen format for Tivo? I didn't see that it does, unless I missed something.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

No widescreen for TiVo. :down: No closed captioning either. :down:


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

bicker said:


> No widescreen for TiVo. :down: No closed captioning either. :down:


Well that sucks. Guess I won't be purchasing unbox then.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

meeneetha  In this day-and-age, a little more consideration for the hearing impaired is appropriate, IMHO.


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## stinastina (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't know if this has been posted before but... I did my first download and it shows up twice in my Now Playing list. But if I delete one, they both go away. Kind of weird.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

stinastina said:


> I don't know if this has been posted before but... I did my first download and it shows up twice in my Now Playing list. But if I delete one, they both go away. Kind of weird.


It's by happening by design. The downloads will show up inside the Amazon folder as well as on their own in the main Now Playing list. I haven't downloaded any two or more episodes of a series to see they group yet, does anyone know if that happens?

Similar behavior can also be observed when you have both a suggestion and a requested recording of some series, the two episodes will appear in a folder in the NPL, and the suggestion will also be shown under the Suggestions folder.

/edit: Just to be clear: even though it appears twice, they both point to only one copy of the data. I assume they group them so a user can find his downloaded(and possibly time-expiring)content in one location.


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

Anyone see this re: AOL?

http://www.forbes.com/technology/20..._pco_1130paidcontent.html?feed=rss_technology


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