# HR10-250 is an inferior DVR



## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Just my opinion, but as a tech nut and after trying many DVRs, here are my observations as I know many of you have only experienced Tivo technology.

I started in the 80's with analog Comcast, a 60" Sony XBR TV and a VCR - Ok for the 80's.

Then came DTV - better picture and an on-screen guide - made the switch and was very happy. A couple of years later DTV sent me a letter about something called a 'DVR'. It was called Ultimate TV and had two tuners (what's a tuner?). I HAD TO HAVE whatever this contraption was!!!!!

I started with DTV's Ultimate TV in the late 90's when it was first introduced (cost -$499). In my opinion, the best dvr interface ever made. I was BLOWN AWAY by this technology! While watching a show, you could search the guide, search for movies, change settings WHILE the show you are watching continues to play in the background. In addition, making changes like 'channels you receive' or setting recordings and season passes usually took 1-3 seconds. Very nice. I was in HEAVEN! Over time heaven became the norm and I felt "blessed" since most people were still watching live TV.

Then came the high-definition age so of course I bought an HD TV and of course I switched to HDTivo (cost-$1000). I was in HEAVEN AGAIN with HD and loved having an HD recorder but the ONLY feature about the HDTivo I preferred over UTV was Tivo's 'search' feature. I hated everything else. I was now in a love-hate relationship. 

I HATED and still HATE the fact that with Tivo you must leave the show you are watching to go to other menus. Even more than that I have always been APPALLED at the time it takes to make changes to settings or record a show or season pass. Even with the 6.2 update my regular directtivo in my bedroom although much faster than HDTivo, is SUBSTANTIALLY SLOWER than my UTV or current DVRs. 

The reality is technology is supposed to speed things up and shrink things down...you know...EFFICIENCY.

Anyway, this leads me to current day. I was watching some HD show and I wasn't blown away by the picture. I then read about DTV compression in order to offer more programming and that pissed me off. I then read about the upcoming conversion to mpeg4 and all the negatives associated with that (lower rez, no 30 second skip, no new HD channels, new equipment and more cables into my living room) and I decided to see what else was out there.

I discovered the "new" Comcast had recently converted to all digital. I called them up and they offered me a no-brainer deal which included their current DVR - the moto6412 III. I decided to have them come out and install since I could cancel any time. I was leary but I just wanted to compare ANYTHING to this slow-ass HDTivo. 

Setup took 10 minutes since I already had cable coming into the house. The first thing I noticed was only one coaxial cable was needed even though the receiver has two tuners. (I have since used a splitter to add another HD DVR to the same SINGLE cable ! - i'll get to that later) The installer left and I spent the rest of the day playing with the moto. This was a few weeks ago. 

IMMEDIATELY - I noticed an increase in PQ over HDTivo. I spent an hour jumping back and forth between my HDTivo and the moto. DTV's compression was now obvious. I then spent an hour comparing SD programming since I record alot of History Channel and broadcast sd stuff ,etc and to my amazement, the SD PQ was also better on the moto! 

Like UTV, I can continue to watch a show while surfing guides or searching for movies, etc. I can make changes to settings INSTANTLY and more importantly I can surf the guide (which is lightning fast) and if I see a show I want to record, I press the 'record' button and a little red dot appears INSTANTLY. If I want a season pass, I press 'record' again and 3 dots appear INSTANTLY. I move on down across the guide until I'm done just like in the old UTV days except now I can record HD !!!!! DOUBLE HEAVEN. The only drawback - the 120gb drive - NOT ENOUGH.

I searched around and discovered the RCA 2160 HD DVR. I got one for $100 and connected to moto6412's firewire port. This gave me an extra 160gb space for HD but it is like using an HD VCR (only has firewire connections and no onscreen guide etc ). I have used it to dump HD programming from the moto. It works well but it's kind of a hassel. A better idea would be to activate the SATA port (like the SA8000 has done) so as to add an external hard drive to the box (apparently this will happen in the near future). 

To hold me over, I have recently purchased the SONY DHG HDD500 HD DVR which works with cablecard (a card that allows the receiver to unscramble digital and HD cable programming). I called Comcast and they installed in 10 minutes for $17 one-time fee with no monthly fee. 

This dvr has two 250gb drives and works much like UTV and the moto (like a dvr in the year 2006 should work). I also noticed that the sony HD PQ seems a little sharper than the moto which i never thought would be possible. 

I like this box even better than the moto. In addition to being free monthly(no dvr fee as the guide comes from TV Guide On Screen), sony has added things like setting extra remote codes(like tivo), allowing different choices for the '30 sec skip' incl a 2,5,15,30,60 or 300 second skip, same for 'jumpback', a choice of a 30, 60, or 90 minute buffer and setting your own tick marks in a recorded show that you can jump to and group folders. Moto has no ticks or folders. 

In addition, I really like the fact that the sony allows you to take sd shows and upscale to 1080i and then gives 2 options for stretching that HDTivo doesn't have when in 1080i - the 'side stretch' and something called 'Adjust 8' which stretches the show wider than a 4-3 box but not as wide as complete stretch (looks the best) With HDTivo, I was forced to downrez to 480p and then side stretch using my tv formatting. Now my SD shows are watchable in 1080i when stretched.

This takes me to now and the reason I am writing this post. I, like most of you love evolving technology and am always an early adopter. I want each of you to know there is better technolgy available today and you don't have to put up with DTV's limitations and contracts just to record HD. 

MOST IMPORTANTLY, in the future, you will have many more choices for HD DVRs with cable or FIOS as companies will mass produce boxes with cablecard and cablecard DOES NOT work with satellite. In addition, satellite will never have the bandwith to carry HD programming like cable or fios so you will never get your best picture with them. Also, DTV will never deliver VideoOnDemand like cable or fios. 

DTV knows these things and that is why they try to lock you into a contract. They also charge high upfront costs for INFERIOR technology (and yes - HDTIVO is inferior) while cable and FIOS are FREE from them or you can CHOOSE to buy whatever receiver you want. Cable cos dont care what receiver you get - after all this is America, right? DTV DOES NOT let you choose - WHY? They want to lock you in by limiting your choices. 

Don't be scared of change - especially when change speeds things up, gets rid of ugly antennas and extra cables and gives you the best HD picture possible. 

For some of you, I know local cable or fios is not available or dvr technology is still not there. For you - the HDTivo is an excellent solution as it was for me for several years. 

My advice to everyone - do research and see what's available in your area today and in the future.

Don't "settle" if you don't have to. Thanks for listening.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

fastep said:


> Don't "settle" if you don't have to. Thanks for listening.


Of course that is the bottom line. However, having no other options other than satellite, I don't have much choice. 

Now be prepared for the 'Tivo army' to chime in and tell you how *any* other DVR is (or will be) inferior to Tivo. I used to be part of that 'army', but lost all faith in Tivo years ago when they failed to keep up with the times. Of course the current army will say it's not Tivo's fault blah blah blah. But had Tivo kept up with technology, we would have had a blazingly fast HD DVR the day they were built instead of pointing fingers at who is to blame for not releasing a 'band-aid' software update.


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## wje (Jan 8, 2005)

Excellent. Even the TiVo fanatics should be willing to admit the HR10-250 is a pretty poor offering; just compare it to the current (non-HD) TiVos. Even ignoring the TiVo part of the equation, HR10-250 reliability has been poor, and it's soooo sloooow.

Every DVR I've had has been a TiVo, but I'm prefectly willing to try something new, particularly if it works.

As for DTV, I _used_ to be a loyal customer. Now, I'd drop them in a flash if I had any alternative. I'm tired of putting up with their terrible customer support, and having my 'commitment' extended every time I have them fix what should have worked in the first place. I'm really fed up with the 'nobody else has ever reported a problem with that' line that seems to be the only thing CS can say.

Maybe Verizon will get FIOS to me in about 10 years. Not that they're any paragon of competence, but hard to imagine they could be worse.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

I too wish I had that option. I have extensively researched both Dish and cable. Unfortunately, I'm in Buffalo with Adelphia cable (soon to be TWC by year-end, I believe). As far as I know, Adelphia is not all-digital. Furthermore, they are in some silly dispute with our local Fox station over paying for HD broadcasts, so they don't carry FoxHD. And I don't believe their HD DVR will take an OTA input and integrate it into the guide like the HR10 does. So it comes down to programming at this point. Directv has more of what I want than the others at this point. If TWC significantly changes their offerings when they take over my area, I may consider them. But at this point, I'm just hoping that the HR20 is useable. 

Actually, I'm eagerly awaiting the supposed integration of DirecTV with HTPC technology. I have read that MS has some agreement with Dtv to allow Dtv programming to be viewed via HTPC without a STB. I don't know how long that will take to materialize, but I'm hoping to be able to fully switch to HTPC within 2 years. Then I can have an all-in-one media center that allows me to do everything I want all from one machine that will be fully customizable/expandable. The only thing holding me back right now as far as I know is that Dtv programming (SD or HD) can't be easily integrated and recorded using an HTPC. I know that cable-card integration is happening later this year with the release of Vista, but unless the content offering from my cable company changes, that isn't the best option for me. But I really like the look and features of MCE or some of the third-party DVR software for HTPC's. It seems like HTPC is the future of home entertainment. It sure makes sense to me and I can't wait to be able to build one to my own specs. Then the only thing I will rely on a vendor for is content, and I can simply choose the best content provider for my needs. Until then, I'll have to live with the HR10 and HR20 and Dtv's compression.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Is there *any* other DVR platform that offers suggestions and thumbs up / thumbs down like features?

I am probably one of the few who enjoy Tivo suggestions and actually watch them.

This is a real tough thing for me to live without and one of the few reasons I consider sticking with a Tivo product over other DVRs.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

fastep said:


> My advice to everyone - do research and see what's available in your area today and in the future.
> 
> Don't "settle" if you don't have to. Thanks for listening.


Was posting this a requirement of getting that low deal of an intro price from Comcast?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Is there *any* other DVR platform that offers suggestions and thumbs up / thumbs down like features?


Does anyone really care? 



SpankyInChicago said:


> I am probably one of the few who enjoy Tivo suggestions and actually watch them.


Probably. 

I've had a Tivo since they first came out and have never felt the need/desire to use suggestions. I already don't have enough time (and I watch a LOT of TV) to watch all of SPs and other things I record.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who use them, but IMO anyone who has that much time on their hands to record/watch them really needs to get outside once in a while.


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## kkluba (Oct 18, 2002)

Much of what fastep is true, some rhetoric. I've been with D* for 10 years and have seen it going from being ahead of the pack to playing catch up. I do agree that the HDTivo is very slow (we can thank D* for not giving us 6.2) but I still believe it to be the best GUI available right now, albeit slow. I've seen the moto 6412 and you just can't tell me that the interface is better in any way.

All this said I see myself dumping my two HDTivo's in the next year. D* is consitently demonstrating their inablility to compete with Comcast and others. Of interest in the not too distant future... Tivo series 3 w/cablecard. It looks like a killer product. IPTV is going to roll out in the next few months in my area, could be interesting. All the telco's are vying for our TV dollars and the competion will bring choice. D* is answering the onslaught with MPEG4 which benefits them far more than we customers.

There are alternatives and in the SF Bay Area here Comcast has become more and more an option. For me I'm going to wait a while and see some of the other options.


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## heathramos (Jul 26, 2004)

what about a thing called monthly fees?

last time I checked, cable charges you $15 per dvr.

Since I have two, that kind of sucks.

Cable is just more expensive per month (I know...except with their initial offers).

and the motorola's interface sucks and hard drive is way too small.

the picture quality is pretty good, though.


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## Inertia (Feb 28, 2005)

Sadly, we don't have Comcast here - just Cox cable. As far as I know, their HD PVR doesn't have dual tuners and can't allow you to specify that you only want to record new episodes of your favorite programs. Those two things are dealbreakers for me, despite the fact that bundling my phone and internet (already supplied by them) with digital cable will actually save me a few bucks per month.

I know, I should probably wait until an HD TiVo comes out and then switch to cable, but Veronica Mars and LOST are on at the same time, how am I supposed to choose?!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

heathramos said:


> what about a thing called monthly fees?
> 
> last time I checked, cable charges you $15 per dvr.
> 
> ...


At least in Annapolis MD Comcast monthly ' dvr fees' are actually cheaper with cable: the breakdown: CABLE: $9.95 per month incls DVR fee, HDTV fee, Receiver insurance (not needed, of course).
DTV: Same Thing : $23.97 per month ($4.99 Tivo fee, $10.99 HDTV fee, and $7.99 insurance)

Yes I FOOLISHLY over-paid that much for years without realizing it either - but knowledge is power! Once i figured out I actuallt got more and paid less it was a no-brainer for me. And honestly, for the PQ and receivers I use now I would gladly pay MORE! But i'm glad i'm not..................


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> I've had a Tivo since they first came out and have never felt the need/desire to use suggestions. I already don't have enough time (and I watch a LOT of TV) to watch all of SPs and other things I record.


We all use are units differently. I can hardly understand people who need to upgrade beyond 250GB in storage. My units are never anywhere near being full. I watch and delete because I am not the type of person who would ever watch a program twice, at least not within a 5 or 10 year period.

Between my wife and I we have about 40 SPs. Some of these are duplicates because I record some programs I like on multiple channels (This Old House, Nova, New Yankee Workshop, Frontline, American Experience, Ask This Old House). Many of these are HBO shows. And of course some record during the normal season while others record during the summer season.

I have four programs I record daily: The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Nightline, and Jeopardy. The Daily Show is the only one I watch every day for sure. Jeopardy I watch almost every day. The other two I watch depending on program content. Beyond those shows there may be 1-2 other shows at any given time that I haven't yet watched. Beyond that are 4-6 movies we haven't seen that we keep just in case nothing else is on.

So, this leave suggestions. I usually have about 8-15 pages of suggestions. When I am out of other things or don't feel like watching something previously recorded, then I go to suggestions. Usually they are things that I know I will like (Seinfeld, X-Files, American Justice, ELR, various PBS shows, etc.), and on occasion there are some shows I would have never found on my own but that I end up enjoying (History Detectives as an example). Plus suggestions always record some odd old movie I have never seen.

Living without suggestions would suck.

Anyway, I'd argue that the "archivers" who need 1TB of space in their DVR are the people who have too much time on their hands.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

heathramos said:


> what about a thing called monthly fees?


Depends on your financial situation. I think that DirecTV is trying to gain market share in the lower-middle class market where price is a major factor in choosing a service.

I am not rich, but the difference between paying $90 a month to DirecTV or $130 a month to cable isn't a deal-breaker for me if the service is better. I want the best service. I'll pay to get it.

I think anyone who had the excess cash to drop $500, $700, or $1000 on an HR10-250 isn't going to gripe over $20, $30, or $40 per month if the service offering is worth it.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

kkluba said:


> Much of what fastep is true, some rhetoric. I've been with D* for 10 years and have seen it going from being ahead of the pack to playing catch up. I do agree that the HDTivo is very slow (we can thank D* for not giving us 6.2) but I still believe it to be the best GUI available right now, albeit slow. I've seen the moto 6412 and you just can't tell me that the interface is better in any way.
> 
> All this said I see myself dumping my two HDTivo's in the next year. D* is consitently demonstrating their inablility to compete with Comcast and others. Of interest in the not too distant future... Tivo series 3 w/cablecard. It looks like a killer product. IPTV is going to roll out in the next few months in my area, could be interesting. All the telco's are vying for our TV dollars and the competion will bring choice. D* is answering the onslaught with MPEG4 which benefits them far more than we customers.
> 
> There are alternatives and in the SF Bay Area here Comcast has become more and more an option. For me I'm going to wait a while and see some of the other options.


I cannot tell you how many posts I've read from people who have "seen" the moto6412. I USE IT EVERYDAY!!! Sure It got stuck a couple of times in the past 3 weeks so I umplugged it for a second and I was off and running - No "please wait, almost there...." message. two seconds done. No more reprogramming the 30 second skip or folders option. Turn it back on and go. I have recently surmized the couple of times I had a probllem was due to some issue with firewire recordings so lately i've been unplugging the firewire and have had NO problems.

There are several cable DVRs out there - DO RESEARCH!!! The most current motorola 6412 is the SERIES III. I had read about countless problems with earlier versions but the series III is the BOMB! INCREDIBLY FAST and has never missed any recording...the way a dvr was meant to be!

Instead of "seeing" or "hearing" about it, try it if available in your area. You will love it and if not - guess what...no contracts.....tell them to get it out of your house and keep a free cable run for later!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

eengert said:


> I too wish I had that option. I have extensively researched both Dish and cable. Unfortunately, I'm in Buffalo with Adelphia cable (soon to be TWC by year-end, I believe). As far as I know, Adelphia is not all-digital. Furthermore, they are in some silly dispute with our local Fox station over paying for HD broadcasts, so they don't carry FoxHD. And I don't believe their HD DVR will take an OTA input and integrate it into the guide like the HR10 does. So it comes down to programming at this point. Directv has more of what I want than the others at this point. If TWC significantly changes their offerings when they take over my area, I may consider them. But at this point, I'm just hoping that the HR20 is useable.
> 
> Actually, I'm eagerly awaiting the supposed integration of DirecTV with HTPC technology. I have read that MS has some agreement with Dtv to allow Dtv programming to be viewed via HTPC without a STB. I don't know how long that will take to materialize, but I'm hoping to be able to fully switch to HTPC within 2 years. Then I can have an all-in-one media center that allows me to do everything I want all from one machine that will be fully customizable/expandable. The only thing holding me back right now as far as I know is that Dtv programming (SD or HD) can't be easily integrated and recorded using an HTPC. I know that cable-card integration is happening later this year with the release of Vista, but unless the content offering from my cable company changes, that isn't the best option for me. But I really like the look and features of MCE or some of the third-party DVR software for HTPC's. It seems like HTPC is the future of home entertainment. It sure makes sense to me and I can't wait to be able to build one to my own specs. Then the only thing I will rely on a vendor for is content, and I can simply choose the best content provider for my needs. Until then, I'll have to live with the HR10 and HR20 and Dtv's compression.


The sony HDD500 pulls in all OTA HD and locks in beautifully and allows you to integrate into your guide if you want. With the HDTivo I spent hundreds of $$$$$ with different ugly-ass antennas and still never got local reception I could count on. For the sony, since I get cable local hd I hooked up the Silver Sensor to it so I could get a Washington DC HD station not offered with my cable. To my surprise, the Sony picked up ALL my locals and when I checked the signal strength all were in the 80's and 90's. With HDtivo, the Silver Sensor got one station and it was unwatchable!(signal strength flucuated from 80 to 0 and would not lock in)

And all this time I thought it was my Silver Sensor! Thanks HDTivo.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

The only problem is finding the Sony boxes at a decent price. I know that folks have found them for $200 or so, but I have never seen them for less than $714-$999. I would snap one up in a minute for 2 bills.

I loved DishPlayer. Gone. I loved UTV. Gone. I loved Replay. All but gone, and not available for HD. The HR10 is not perfect. It is slow, quirky, the PQ from DTV is suspect, the HD tuner is weak, etc. But for most scenarios it is still far superior to anything else out there. It's also exceptionably reliable, something the really fast interface of the DISH PVRs isn't, still available, something UTV isn't, and it has many unique user-friendly features that almost every other option out there doesn't. It's still the king, like it or not.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> The only problem is finding the Sony boxes at a decent price. I know that folks have found them for $200 or so, but I have never seen them for less than $714-$999. I would snap one up in a minute for 2 bills.
> 
> I loved DishPlayer. Gone. I loved UTV. Gone. I loved Replay. All but gone, and not available for HD. The HR10 is not perfect. It is slow, quirky, the PQ from DTV is suspect, the HD tuner is weak, etc. But for most scenarios it is still far superior to anything else out there. It's also exceptionably reliable, something the really fast interface of the DISH PVRs isn't, still available, something UTV isn't, and it has many unique user-friendly features that almost every other option out there doesn't. It's still the king, like it or not.


A very old, slow, arthritic king who should get his things in order. Never had dish but if you loved UTV - moto6412 III and sonyhdd500 are its HD cousins . You will love either one if available to you.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

rifleman69 said:


> Was posting this a requirement of getting that low deal of an intro price from Comcast?


Before tivo I would tell my friends about DVR technology and they didn't get it - FOR YEARS ! They continued to settle for watching live TV or VCR recordings while my wife and I enjoyed our now playing list and the 30 second skip. Through my persistance, my closest friends and family members have most since joined the DVR revolution and cannot believe they ever lived without it! Some wished they had joined sooner than they did but I never said "I told you so."

This is a similar situation. I feel as though we are a "family" of sorts as everyone here bought an HDTivo because we love DVR technology and most of all we love HDTV! I am posting my observations as a user of these technologies and am unbiased because I accept no compensation for my opinions. I just don't want to see anyone "settle" for any time longer than they have to. My opinions do not come from hearsay but from actual usage of all these products. Take it for what it's worth.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I believe you, and I'm tired of seeing my bill go up while the TiVo service stagnates and the PQ seems to erode.

But if not for DirecTV, I'd have to watch the Redskins every Sunday during NFL season. Unacceptable.

Also, my downstairs neighbor has Comcast and claims our PQ is better than his.

I'm not part of the TiVo army, but NFLST remains the whip.


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## obi1 (Dec 5, 2001)

Just had Comcast DVR support installed. Already had Comcast Modem and basic cable and HD support. Have been running D* and 4 Tivos for many years. One of them is HD250. Several problems with it including standard HDMI problem plus a more serious one which is the "stuttering" of video and audio several times per hour. D* has been useless in resolving.

Reason why I installed Comcast DVR is this. I had contacted D* about receiving Fox in HD locally. Said I could not do. I asked for remote city support(I have this for NBC, ABC, and CBS) and also told them that I wanted PBS in HD. My antenna in the attic(Channel Masters largest bowtie with rotator) is too flaky to depend on to ensure getting American Idol(my wife loves it) and 24.

Finally D* customer retention said that I could have local Fox if I installed new 5 LNB dish and their new receiver(NO DVR). They offered free install. So I said ok and set a date for them to show some 2 weeks hence. Window was between 8 and 4. I waited at home all day, they did not show. I called them and they said we are sorry(they always do) we forgot to confirm the appointment with the local installation company. They asked to set a new install date. I told them to shove it where the sun does not shine and hung up.

I then called Comcast. They offered me a 20 dollar discount on my Cable Modem and a 30 day trial on their stuff with a DVR. Is now installed and running.

Picture is good. I have local HD channels, Disk space of 15 hours for HD sucks. User Interface is primitive and horrible compared to Tivo. No way to search for "Pick Programs to Record" as per Tivo. No Showcases. Box seems much noisier. So far have not found hacks on how to increase recording time. Comcast now tells me that I cannot merely add DVR support to basic cable(remember I have D* for all my HBO's and expand services) so I will have to license their Silver package at some 40 bucks more per month if I want DVR support. Do not get HD 250 "stuttering on video and audio". This is wonderful. I often use Tivo's "skip to marker" for fast pacing thru a long program(for example I record 14 hours of CNBC each day and rapidly skip thru to parts that I want to see. Cannot do this with Comcast DVR and of course hard drive space is precious on Comcast. I have expanded my hard drives on my Tivo's.

Am running 3 of my Tivo's, plus Comcast DVR, plus DVD, plus Parasound C1, plus Cable card Cable(Mitz 61 inch DLP,,piece of crap) and my rotator for antenna all off a single MX 600 RF Home Theatre remote. With full pic and pic and the choice of using TV speakers or Parasound Preamp/amp. No sense in running whole Parasound system just to watch 60 minutes. Home Theatre remote is my favorite piece of equipment and cost the least to purchase.

Bottomline is that both Comcast and D* have a long way to go to get a system to justify their high prices. I dislike both companies. For me, Tivo is still the far better solution, but their HD implementation with the HD 250 is crap, but Comcast DVR is just to weak for me for now. I think both companies need to get out in the field to see what us chickens are eating out here. The one that finally does a good job will own this industry.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Fastep, take a deep breath, there is steam coming out of your ears. OK, you hate TiVo. Fine. Why come to a TiVo forum and trash the thing the forum is devoted to?

I'm sure many of your points are true and many can be disputed, so what. We get it - you are _HAPPY_ with your Moto, - find a Moto forum.

One thing I don't see you mentioning is the Season Pass conflict resolution with the moto, just how well does it handle that? Next Friday I have my TiVo set to record Ghost Whisperer, Stargate, Close to Home, Las Vegas, Stargate Atlantis, Numbers, the new NBC show, and Bill Mahr. Does your moto know that Stargate Atlantis is on at 12 Midnight and to record it then and record Close to Home and Las Vegas at 9? Does it know to record Atlantis at 9 if either CTH or LV as reruns?

I can live without Suggestions, though mine are so on that it's scary, and I am no big fan of D, but if a box can't handle my season pass needs it is of little value to me. If and when the Series III hit the market I'll dump d and my D HD TiVo in a second.

Just as an aside, my cousin in Chicago has the moto, she has a Phd. and has problems getting her moto do do what she wants, her 80 year old mother has no problem using her DTiVo and my 90 year old father has no problems with his D TiVo either. What is an intuitive interface for some is not alway functional for others.


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## obi1 (Dec 5, 2001)

My Comcast DVR is recording programs that I have selected from PBS. Comcast guide indicates the programs are broadcast at 6 or 7 pm, and their DVR dutifully records them. However PBS(channel 9 in my area) does not come on the air until 8pm. So I end up recording several hours of PBS's off the air signal. Lucky for me, is that their off the air logo is broadcast in 480i, so I guess I am not wasting too much of my pitiful 15 hour HD record time.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Matt L said:


> Fastep, take a deep breath, there is steam coming out of your ears. OK, you hate TiVo. Fine. Why come to a TiVo forum and trash the thing the forum is devoted to?
> 
> We get it - you are _HAPPY_ with your Moto, - find a Moto forum.


And the Tivo army marches on. 

Nowhere did I see Fastep trashing Tivo or pushing anyone to switch to anything. On the contrary, he only pointed out the many flaws with Tivo (that the army always seems to refuse to acknowledge) and simply said to look around and see if there may be something better for your situation.


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## kkluba (Oct 18, 2002)

fastep,

You might might be right about the V3-6412. I do think overall it will produce a better picture and it has gained stability over the last year. Hard disk is still too small. Even though there is no committment it isn't worth the trouble for me to install one now. I can deal with the sloooooow season passes for now and as I said in a previous post there are considerable choices on the horizon.

I'm not going make any move until I see something considerably better and for me the V3-6412 or any other current DVR offering isn't that.



fastep said:


> I cannot tell you how many posts I've read from people who have "seen" the moto6412. I USE IT EVERYDAY!!! Sure It got stuck a couple of times in the past 3 weeks so I umplugged it for a second and I was off and running - No "please wait, almost there...." message. two seconds done. No more reprogramming the 30 second skip or folders option. Turn it back on and go. I have recently surmized the couple of times I had a probllem was due to some issue with firewire recordings so lately i've been unplugging the firewire and have had NO problems.
> 
> There are several cable DVRs out there - DO RESEARCH!!! The most current motorola 6412 is the SERIES III. I had read about countless problems with earlier versions but the series III is the BOMB! INCREDIBLY FAST and has never missed any recording...the way a dvr was meant to be!
> 
> Instead of "seeing" or "hearing" about it, try it if available in your area. You will love it and if not - guess what...no contracts.....tell them to get it out of your house and keep a free cable run for later!


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

*fastep,*

Excellent post! My experience almost exactly parallels yours. When I moved to the mountains of Colorado back in '88, the only TV we had for the first 6 years was rented VHS video cassettes (absolutely no OTA or cable... still that way). When DTV went online in '94, I was the first "kid on the block" (what block!?) to sign up and have been with D* ever since. I was one of only about 300,000 subscribers who signed up that first year. In my case it was either DirecTV or NoTV!

Like you, I also upgraded my old original receiver with the H-card (I still have it) to UTV when it first became available, and instantly fell in love with it. I only gave up the old UTV one month ago when we finally took the plunge to HDTV and purchased the HR10-250 along with a new Panny plasma TV. Little did I know what a Love-Hate relationship I would be getting into with this HR10-250!

While I am amazed and absolutely love HDTV, and there's no going back for that reason, Jeeze, do I ever miss my old UTV!!! Only those who have ever had a UTV can relate to this. No need to re-hash all you've said in regards to comparing the UTV to the HR10, except to say you are "Right On" in all you've said. I too hate the Tivo's user unfriendly maze of nested menu's! I guess I've just been totally spoiled by the UTV's obviously superior user interface. And boy do I ever miss the UTV's 90min. or more pause time compared to the HR10's measly 30 minute pause time. And bugs in the HR10?: I've seen the HR10 record shows I've set up as season passes as "first run" that were clearly labeled "repeat" in the guide. I've also seen it fail to record some shows that were definitely scheduled in my season passes that were definitely "first run." One evening for no apparent reason my HR10 totally froze up while the wife and I were watching a show. It wouldn't respond to any commands from the remote or from the front panel. Had to unplug / replug the unit and go through the "GSOD" reboot process to regain function. This with a brand new unit, and I'm shouting: "Oh this is just great!" (voice dripping with sarcasm!). The wife's saying: "We dropped $3000 on a new TV and this crappy receiver that I'm frustrated with learning the new Tivo menus just so we can get HiDef? And you know the old expression: "If she aint happy, 'yo aint happy!" 

So my take on the HR10-250? I wholeheartedly agree with the title of this thread:

"The HR10-250 is an inferior DVR!"

While I feel the obvious superiority of HD TV is worth the frustration of the Tivo DVR, I have to say that if it weren't D*'s only option for a HD DVR I would drop it in favor of something else in a heartbeat. Many on this forum seem to dread D*'s introduction of the new HR20: "Oh it won't have Tivo... I can't live without my Tivo!" I for one can sure live without Tivo and I am actually looking forward to the release of the HR20 hoping that maybe D* will get it right this time. Hopefully it will emulate the UTV's features and functionality. Only time will tell... we'll see.

My 2 cents, and I've got a lot of pennies!

-- 
Wirelezz


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## KSbugeater (Jan 26, 2006)

My first DVR was the Dish 501, and I thought it was the bomb, even though there was no search (initially) and you had to set up timers manually. My friends had TiVo, but I thought, "it can't be THAT much better than my DVR". I switched to DirecTV almost a year ago to get HD, and the HDTiVo was (and still is) my only option for recording HD. Therefore, in my world, and many others of us that have ma-and-pa cable companies ("what's digital?"), the HDTiVo is inferior to nothing! 

That said, I am completely satisfied with my HDTiVo experience. The guide speeds up if you tune to SD channels or music first, and navigate by using CH up/down and REW/FF to move by screens, not lines. The only annoyingly slow operation IMO is changing the priority of season passes, but even that never takes more than 10 minutes, which is reasonable considering the hundreds of conflicts involved that it has to sort out. 

I suppose I miss not being able to monitor what's playing in a little window while performing system operations, but TiVo assumes that you're in there to do business, not watch TV. The live buffer will take you back to what you missed.

The bottom line is that TiVo is the best at finding and recording your programs without much effort. And until Comcast comes out with theirs or the series 3 is released, it's the only HD version of TiVo.

Thanks to whiners like yourself, though, there are a lot of HD newbies out there that are afraid to take the plunge on a HDTiVo even though it may be the perfect solution for them at this moment. This ain't no dish 921 (see buggy in Webster's). I will say that if you don't have an experimental side when it comes to over-the-air ATSC reception, you might want to wait for MPEG-4 locals to hit your area, but if you can't avoid OTA, this box will perform as adequately as any other digital tuner.

I do respect your message of "see what else is out there"... I would do that if I could. But to say the HR10 is inferior is misleading.


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## bgtimber75 (Jun 2, 2002)

I'm sorry, I like the DTivos as much as the next guy but if you're in the market for HD and IF you have a Comcast or similar cable company in your area I don't think there is any competition. Why do I need to fiddle around with and OTA antenna? How many HD channels does DTV provide again? I'm not saying the cable solution is better in all cases but in my case it's definately the way to go.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

fastep said:


> IMMEDIATELY - I noticed an increase in PQ over HDTivo. I spent an hour jumping back and forth between my HDTivo and the moto. DTV's compression was now obvious.


That is D*'s fault, not the HD TiVo. The HD TiVo just converts what D* sends it.


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## jor-el (May 24, 2002)

sheesh - what a bunch of whining. Like was said, if you're happy with something else, good for you. But clearly you have some anger. 

The HDTivo was demoed at CES in January, 2003. Sadly using the same hardware as the SD version, and that's where the slowness comes from. But it was until end of 2004, the only game in town in a STB form. Even now, it's questionable that it's been passed, but I'm it has to happen eventually. Most likely when the cabletivohd box comes. 

If one were starting from ground zero, maybe Comcrap is the best choice. Lower commitment up front in terms of dollars and effort makes up for the flaws in the units. But for someone who already has an hdtivo, lives near OTA attennas making the 1280x1080 issue less important, and with tivoweb running? No way in hell I'm switching to the Comcast for the current offering. Hopefully I'll never have to deal with a company that won't even display their prices outside of the first 3 month special. 

I was laughing a bit at the notion that a better choice was to get a lower capacity unit and then need to plug in another device to act as offline storage. Or buying the Sony for a fortune and a half.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Matt L said:


> Fastep, take a deep breath, there is steam coming out of your ears. OK, you hate TiVo. Fine. Why come to a TiVo forum and trash the thing the forum is devoted to?
> 
> I'm sure many of your points are true and many can be disputed, so what. We get it - you are _HAPPY_ with your Moto, - find a Moto forum.
> 
> ...


Matt L - I understand why you are upset - You (and many of us) FEEL BETRAYED. I went out and shopped around not because I have time and money to waste but because DTV FORCED me to.

Like you, I laid out $1000 with dreams of HD Heaven and found out the wagon we hitched our star too was the wrong wagon. They offered a fix with the 6.2 for some of their customers but none for us. They must feel it was not cost-effective to do so for whatever reason. They cut picture resolution in order to squeeze more profits. Then the icing on the cake - They are switching to mpeg4 with all new equipment and some trade-in offer that will definitely have a 2 year contract attatched to it, more coaxial cables into my home , an untested dvr interface and the new HD DVR WILL NOT ALLOW FOR A 30 SECOND SKIP!!

I put up with this piece of crap slow as molasses dvr for as long as i could but there is NO pot of gold at the end of this rainbow!

In life there are trade-offs. I have decided to trade away AWESOME top-of-the-line season pass conflicts(which with any dvr in 8 years I have never had?????) a smaller HDD, and ridiculous tivo suggestions (I record what I want to record) for: SPEED (RECORD 2 WEEKS WORTH OF SHOWS AND SEASON PASSES IN 3 MINUTES), CONVENIENCE (ALLOWING FOR CABLECARD WHICH ALLOWS FOR CHOICE IN UPCOMING DVRS), ONE COAXIAL CABLE, NO PHONE LINE, LOWER MONTHLY FEES, BETTER HD AND SD PICTURE QUALITY, NO CONTRACTS, NO INSURANCE, MORE HD CHANNELS INCLUDING STARZ HD, CINEMAX HD, INHD1 AND INHD2, ALL MY LOCALS IN HD WITH NO STUPID ASS UNRELIABLE OTA ANTENNA, NO UPFRONT COSTS, INSTANT VIDEO ON DEMAND, BETTER PACKAGE PRICING FOR HIGH SPEED INTERNET USERS, AND NOT HAVING TO LEAVE THE SHOW I'M WATCHING TO SURF AROUND GUIDES.

I wonder who made out better in that trade.

People like me are EXACTLY who should post on this forum. Who better to tell potential buyers unfamiliar with HD Dvrs? I want them to know they may have alternative choices BEFORE they get locked into a two year contract! If I help just one person avoid getting stuck with less then my post was successful.

I didn't start this - DTV did.

And I will repeat - for those who do not have a choice for whatever reason - HDTivo is by far the BEST solution. I only thank my lucky stars that I have a choice.

Now as far as your cousin with a PHD; that wasn't by mail-order was it? Ha Ha
I am just kidding but come on, all Dvrs have fairly similar interfaces and any HDTivo user would run through the moto in about 30 seconds. She, like my sister who is a successful attorney, is probably not "tech-savvy" but like my intelligent sister (and my 5 year old for that matter) she will figure it out.


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## obi1 (Dec 5, 2001)

bgtimber75 said:


> I'm sorry, I like the DTivos as much as the next guy but if you're in the market for HD and IF you have a Comcast or similar cable company in your area I don't think there is any competition. Why do I need to fiddle around with and OTA antenna? How many HD channels does DTV provide again? I'm not saying the cable solution is better in all cases but in my case it's definately the way to go.


I have both Comcast and Tivo/D*/HD and an OTA. I could agree, I suppose for the technical novice that Comcast DVR is simpler, especially for one who merely wishes to use their DVR as a disk based VCR. But then bicycles are more simple then Ferraris. So as with everything in life, there are trade-offs and this is why you have chocolate and vanilla. 15 hours of HD record time is not useless, but close to as are other limitations in the current product. However, having said that, I think that Comcast sees the whole market and where their competition lies, and there is no reason that with some sharp programmers, system design and larger hard drive capacity, they could not catch up rapidly. For now however, I prefer a Ferrari to bicycling.


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## Arbys_Night (Oct 11, 2003)

fastep:

Thank you for what I consider a very objective and thorough look into HD-DVRs. I don't believe I've seen such a comprehensive write-up on HD-DVRs anywhere else.

I particularly liked how you compared the pluses and minuses of the units. With your information in hand, one is able to make better decisions. For example, what matters more to me: hard drive space or picture quality? Stick with my HR10-250 or go for the Motorola? I don't know which unit I would want long term, but thanks to your write-up I now have the information at hand that I would need to make an objective decision.

I've bookmarked this thread (first time I've done that!) so that when it comes time to get a new DVR I know where to find some good information. Good luck to anyone trying to get this type of information out of some sales-person at Best Buy or Circuit City!

PS - Don't undermine your outstanding write-up by responding to "The Army".


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

jor-el said:


> I was laughing a bit at the notion that a better choice was to get a lower capacity unit and then need to plug in another device to act as offline storage. Or buying the Sony for a fortune and a half.


I pointed out that the largest limitation to the moto was capacity and attempted to suggest a solution to the problem. At least Comcast has a firewire option to try. Oh, and by the way, I purchased two Sonys, the first for $249 and the second for $225 (check around). And again, with Comcast and cablecard I had the CHOICE. This year there will be at least three more choices for cablecard.

With DTV - you get what you get, too bad, so sad..........Not for me anymore.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

obi1 said:


> I have both Comcast and Tivo/D*/HD and an OTA. I could agree, I suppose for the technical novice that Comcast DVR is simpler, especially for one who merely wishes to use their DVR as a disk based VCR. But then bicycles are more simple then Ferraris. So as with everything in life, there are trade-offs and this is why you have chocolate and vanilla. 15 hours of HD record time is not useless, but close to as are other limitations in the current product. However, having said that, I think that Comcast sees the whole market and where their competition lies, and there is no reason that with some sharp programmers, system design and larger hard drive capacity, they could not catch up rapidly. For now however, I prefer a Ferrari to bicycling.


Comcast's HD DVR IS FREE.....This is the best FREE receiver I have ever used!

The point is that cablecos and FIOS are offereing FREE boxes for those who do not feel large capacity is important.

Here is the point alot of people are missing - The wonderful thing about cable and Fios is that they are allowing their users THE CHOICE to purchase a unit with larger capacity which you can customize with their cablecard. CHOICES are available TODAY with many more to come INCLUDING the Tivo3 which will not work with satellite.

Satellite allows NO CHOICE - PERIOD !

****You are comparing boxes when you should be comparing emerging technologies.****


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## bgtimber75 (Jun 2, 2002)

fastep said:


> Comcast's HD DVR IS FREE.....This is the best FREE receiver I have ever used!
> 
> The point is that cablecos and FIOS are offereing FREE boxes for those who do not feel large capacity is important.
> [/B]


Yeah I just bit the bullet and and dropped $500 on the Sony (which by the way is less then the HDTivo was when it cam out) I don't have to lease it, I'm not tied to Comcast with it and best of all I don't have to mess around with an antenna. When Fios comes to my area and I drop Comcast like a hot potato I'll still have my DVR.

I'll add that I am a member of the TiVo army. I'm a big fan of DirecTV's SD service. For HD they are severly lacking though. So for a while I'll have to drop money on there service for my non-HD tv's but I'll never put another dime into any of there HD nonsense.


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## obi1 (Dec 5, 2001)

fastep said:


> Comcast's HD DVR IS FREE.....This is the best FREE receiver I have ever used!
> 
> The point is that cablecos and FIOS are offereing FREE boxes for those who do not feel large capacity is important.
> 
> ...


I am sitting here trying to figure that Comcast DVR is free as you claim. I have Comcast basic cable and modem and have had for years since it was the old @home service. I added DVR service as it was 10 dollars per month over what I was already paying them. Then I find after my 30 day "trial" that not only will I pay the 10 dollars monthly for DVR/HD, I must sign up for their so called "Silver Package or expanded basic or some such, at another 40 dollars per month. This is to get CNBC and Discovery and some of this stuff. Now if I want Speed Channel or OLN or whatever, it is even more. I already have all this with D* and am happy(well that is a stretch--they are a bunch of dopes too, but not quite as bad as some of the dealings that I have experienced with Comcast techs over the years, actually some real horror stories with them) with it. So why would I wish to pay some 50 dollars additional per month for so called Comcast "free" DVR support. Incidentally, non HD support "SD" with D* picture quality is quite superior to Comcast's "SD" support in picture quality. This is particularly noticeable on my large screen system, so dropping D* to go all Comcast is not an option, plus I have 3 other Tivo's(non HD) that have a couple hundred hours of record time capability each. Cannot do this with Comcast DVR support(until someone comes up with an upgrade package or software to allow the user to do it themselves).

But I would be interested in any Forums dedicated to Comcast DVR's such as this one is for Tivo users. Any out there that anyone knows of?


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

obi1 said:


> I am sitting here trying to figure that Comcast DVR is free as you claim. I have Comcast basic cable and modem and have had for years since it was the old @home service. I added DVR service as it was 10 dollars per month over what I was already paying them. Then I find after my 30 day "trial" that not only will I pay the 10 dollars monthly for DVR/HD, I must sign up for their so called "Silver Package or expanded basic or some such, at another 40 dollars per month. This is to get CNBC and Discovery and some of this stuff. Now if I want Speed Channel or OLN or whatever, it is even more. I already have all this with D* and am happy(well that is a stretch--they are a bunch of dopes too, but not quite as bad as some of the dealings that I have experienced with Comcast techs over the years, actually some real horror stories with them) with it. So why would I wish to pay some 50 dollars additional per month for so called Comcast "free" DVR support. Incidentally, non HD support "SD" with D* picture quality is quite superior to Comcast's "SD" support in picture quality. This is particularly noticeable on my large screen system, so dropping D* to go all Comcast is not an option, plus I have 3 other Tivo's(non HD) that have a couple hundred hours of record time capability each. Cannot do this with Comcast DVR support(until someone comes up with an upgrade package or software to allow the user to do it themselves).
> 
> But I would be interested in any Forums dedicated to Comcast DVR's such as this one is for Tivo users. Any out there that anyone knows of?


I meant that Comcast has no upfront cost for their HD DVR. All providers charge fees for HD and DVR service and as I stated earlier(see my fee comparison above) DTV charges more AND charges upfront .

The latest news is that even though DTV plans to start "leasing" boxes next month they are still planning to charge a substantial upfront fee for their HD DVR for new subscribers and those unfortunates will not OWN those boxes.

I believe they realize they are going to lose many customers over the next few years and are trying to squeeze more profit per subscriber. It's a horrible strategy but I believe it's their only strategy due to their limitations in the HD, high speed internet and VOIP arenas.

Don't feel bad for them though as they crushed cable since the 90's. Today, major competition, lack of sufficient bandwidth and poor planning has caught up with them. In a nutshell, they lose - consumers win.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

bgtimber75 said:


> Yeah I just bit the bullet and and dropped $500 on the Sony (which by the way is less then the HDTivo was when it cam out) I don't have to lease it, I'm not tied to Comcast with it and best of all I don't have to mess around with an antenna. When Fios comes to my area and I drop Comcast like a hot potato I'll still have my DVR.
> 
> I'll add that I am a member of the TiVo army. I'm a big fan of DirecTV's SD service. For HD they are severly lacking though. So for a while I'll have to drop money on there service for my non-HD tv's but I'll never put another dime into any of there HD nonsense.


Cograts on your purchase! One word of advice if you haven't set it up yet - 
When you install your cablecard, be sure to scan both cable AND OTA channels. Then in the setup, select 'cable AND antenna' for your zipcode as TVguide OS gets programming data from your local ANALOG PBS station. If your comcast has gone all digital, the guide will download from the OTA analog PBS station. If it's not all digital, it will get info from cable analog PBS. The correct time should appear within a couple of hours if analog PBS station was found. This was not explained in the manual and caused alot of confusion.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Arbys_Night said:


> fastep:
> 
> PS - Don't undermine your outstanding write-up by responding to "The Army".


Thank you for your response. I wanted to let you know that I don't mind responding to "the Army" as I am a huge fan of LOYALTY and I commend those that stick up for their own. I have learned though that in technology it is more important to be loyal to your needs versus a particular brand.

I'll take the best DVR that fits my needs (and I always feel the need for speed) and I don't care what you call it, Tivo, Crappo, Tyco, whatever.

I have three requirements : let me watch my show while i'm surfin around, record my stuff fast and don't miss any recordings. (allright, I'll allow 2 missed recordings per year).

If the new Tivo3 meets these requirements, does not cost over $500 and does not charge a monthly fee I will probably get that. It's just nice to have choices.


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## good.deals (Jan 28, 2006)

fastep said:


> In addition, I really like the fact that the sony allows you to take sd shows and upscale to 1080i and then gives 2 options for stretching that HDTivo doesn't have when in 1080i - the 'side stretch' and something called 'Adjust 8' which stretches the show wider than a 4-3 box but not as wide as complete stretch (looks the best) With HDTivo, I was forced to downrez to 480p and then side stretch using my tv formatting. Now my SD shows are watchable in 1080i when stretched.
> 
> This takes me to now and the reason I am writing this post. I, like most of you love evolving technology and am always an early adopter. I want each of you to know there is better technolgy available today and you don't have to put up with DTV's limitations and contracts just to record HD.


Hello fastep,
Any problems with the volume level on your box? Do you ever get service outages? This was a constant problem with my service with comcast, and continued with my adelphia service (when they took over my area). (I was with comcast for 8 years) I had them remove the hd dvr after 3 days.

The MOXI box from adelphia was horrendous and I had to turn my sound system level so high I risked blowing my speakers... after calling them they said they had no solution for it and to use my TV speakers and not a SS system... That is why I went to D* (6 weeks ago).

I must say; I am not totally satisfied with D* as I get periodic cut-outs with sound and video but hopefully that will get better with future updates. I will be hooking up a winegard ota soon which should resolve my quality problems (I watch mostly network tv programming).

Comcast/Adelphia did have awesome PQ but it doesnt matter much... considering they did not offer a nice hd-dvr (sound problems).

For now I am going with dtv... I will see what their mpeg4 does and what type of difference the hr20 will make... if it doesnt satisfy me I may call up my old cable company and see if they have fixed that sound problem with their hd-dvr.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

fastep said:


> Matt L - I understand why you are upset - You (and many of us) FEEL BETRAYED. I went out and shopped around not because I have time and money to waste but because DTV FORCED me to.
> 
> Like you, I laid out $1000 with dreams of HD Heaven and found out the wagon we hitched our star too was the wrong wagon. They offered a fix with the 6.2 for some of their customers but none for us. They must feel it was not cost-effective to do so for whatever reason. They cut picture resolution in order to squeeze more profits. Then the icing on the cake - They are switching to mpeg4 with all new equipment and some trade-in offer that will definitely have a 2 year contract attatched to it, more coaxial cables into my home , an untested dvr interface and the new HD DVR WILL NOT ALLOW FOR A 30 SECOND SKIP!!
> 
> ...


It seems you are putting words in my mouth. I no way did i infer I was unhappy with my TiVo, and I CERTAINLY don't feel betrayed.



> Like you, I laid out $1000 with dreams of HD Heaven and found out the wagon we hitched our star too was the wrong wagon.


I am very happy with the 'wagon' I'm hitched to if you are referring to TiVo. See I have one of those ugly large antennas next to my home, it's been there for decades - it's not going anywhere. With it I am able to receive 19 beautiful non-compressed HD channels. Two or three options for most networks. That way when station WBCD decides they want to run Billy Graham instead of Lost I can watch Lost, in HD.

Also, because I'm smart enough to do some research I have a HD TiVo capable of over 60 hours of HD recording, and a permanent 30 second skip. All it cost me was $59 after rebate. And in case you are unaware, you really DON'T have to plug the phone line for your TiVo in.



> "I put up with this piece of crap slow as molasses dvr for as long as i could but there is NO pot of gold at the end of this rainbow!
> 
> In life there are trade-offs. I have decided to trade away AWESOME top-of-the-line season pass conflicts(which with any dvr in 8 years I have never had?????) a smaller HDD, and ridiculous tivo suggestions (I record what I want to record) for: SPEED (RECORD 2 WEEKS WORTH OF SHOWS AND SEASON PASSES IN 3 MINUTES), CONVENIENCE (ALLOWING FOR CABLECARD WHICH ALLOWS FOR CHOICE IN UPCOMING DVRS), ONE COAXIAL CABLE, NO PHONE LINE, LOWER MONTHLY FEES, BETTER HD AND SD PICTURE QUALITY, NO CONTRACTS, NO INSURANCE, MORE HD CHANNELS INCLUDING STARZ HD, CINEMAX HD, INHD1 AND INHD2, ALL MY LOCALS IN HD WITH NO STUPID ASS UNRELIABLE OTA ANTENNA, NO UPFRONT COSTS, INSTANT VIDEO ON DEMAND, BETTER PACKAGE PRICING FOR HIGH SPEED INTERNET USERS, AND NOT HAVING TO LEAVE THE SHOW I'M WATCHING TO SURF AROUND GUIDES.
> 
> I wonder who made out better in that trade. "


Obviously in your mind you did. All that stuff you listed means very little to me. I have my cables installed, why should I care if there is one, two , or fourteen? As to monthly fees, how many DVRs do you have? More than one? Does Comcast charge you for each box? How much? May of us have 2,3 or 4 Tivos on our account and only pay the mirror fee in addition to ONE TiVo fee, does Comcast do that?

What you simply have done is a cost benefit analysis and for you Comcast won out. Very nice, but I have done the exact same cost/benefit analysis and the scale tipped the other way. But gee, I'm not shouting in a moto forum that everyone there is stupid because they are using something I deem inferior piece of crap --to use your words.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Matt L said:


> It seems you are putting words in my mouth. I no way did i infer I was unhappy with my TiVo, and I CERTAINLY don't feel betrayed.
> Also because I'm smart enough to do some research I have a HD TiVo capable of over 60 hours of HD recording, and a permanent 30 second skip. All it cost me was $59 after rebate. And in case you are unaware, you really DON'T have to plug the phone line for your TiVo in.
> Obviously in your mind you did. All that stuff you listed means very little to me. I have my cables installed, why should I care if there is one, two , or fourteen? As to monthly fees, how many DVRs do you have? More than one? Does Comcast charge you for each box? How much? May of us have 2,3 or 4 Tivos on our account and only pay the mirror fee in addition to ONE TiVo fee, does Comcast do that?


Please stay with DTV if you're happy with their service. Next year you can read about all the cool cablecard receivers on the market that DTV won't be offering including Tivo3. You can also read about how nice it is to have 2 extra Movie channels in HD and I'm not talking about HDnet movies either. Having HBO and SHO HD is pretty good though if you decide to "settle".

Also, I don't want "hack" workarounds for phone lines, capacity and skips. I want something that doesn't need "hacking." I didn't have to hack my labtop or my cell phone or my HDTV! If you want to be helpful to those in this forum, PLEASE POST A HACK for speeding up the HDTivo, increasing HD picture quality and adding more HD channels!!!

By the way - next year when you "upgrade" to the HR20 PLEASE post your "hack" for the 30 second skip, phone line requirement and capacity. GOOD LUCK!

Last point - Comcast charges $9.95 per month for each box AND HD service to your home. They do not charge $1000 up front like DTV did to most of us! That's about TEN YEARS of Comcast rentals AND you still pay DTV $10.99 per month for HD! AND GET LESS CHANNELS! AND GET LESS CHOICE!

With Comcast, like DTV, if you buy your own DVR, the first cablecard is free and each subsequent card cost $5 per month.

Listen - if your happy with DTV (and what's coming) good for you. I am merely POSTING OPINIONS as I see them and I believe I am in a better position than you becaused I ACTUALLY have all three HD DVRS connected to my TV. If you want to refute what I'm saying - get off your butt and COMPARE for yourself! If you ever do, (and if you really want the best HD Dvr and service) you eventually will compare and you will probably post an apology.

If, for some reason, options are not available - DTV HDTivo IS THE BEST OPTION!


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

good.deals said:


> Hello fastep,
> Any problems with the volume level on your box? Do you ever get service outages? This was a constant problem with my service with comcast, and continued with my adelphia service (when they took over my area). (I was with comcast for 8 years) I had them remove the hd dvr after 3 days.
> 
> The MOXI box from adelphia was horrendous and I had to turn my sound system level so high I risked blowing my speakers... after calling them they said they had no solution for it and to use my TV speakers and not a SS system... That is why I went to D* (6 weeks ago).
> ...


I have had no problems at all so far. Never had the Moxi - Maybe you had a bad box. I have read in cable forums about some people who tryed 3-4 boxes before they got a good one. I waited to try cable until the moto6412 SERIES III was available for that very reason.

Mine works perfectly - 1st box. If it's not offered by your cableco you can wait for the new cablecard boxes coming from tivo, sony and panasonic. The new boxes should be even better than moto6412 III.

Sony has a box out now (see my post above) on clearence but they are hard to come by. Their new box will apparently have dual tuners and is due out this year. Panasonic recently signed a deal with Comcast to supply a THREE tuner HD DVR also due out this year. I believe we should see many cablecard HD dvrs hitting the market soon which hopefully will push quality UP and keep prices DOWN!


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## tomr (Oct 2, 2000)

The honeymoon has long been over with me and TiVo/DirecTV. The H10-250 is basically 6-7 year old technology ( at least software wise). Too damn slow and buggy. Stutters, HDMI problems, Bad PQ (DirectTV problem I know),Oh did I mention slow? 

My problem, like others, my cable is worst. Charter cable doesn't even offer HD in my area. They just started offering Digital in 2005. I've seen their picture. No better than DirecTV. 

So I stay with DirecTV. So I limp along with old tech with no hope of seeing a better DVR in the near future. What will the H20 bring us??


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

tomr said:


> The honeymoon has long been over with me and TiVo/DirecTV. The H10-250 is basically 6-7 year old technology ( at least software wise). Too damn slow and buggy. Stutters, HDMI problems, Bad PQ (DirectTV problem I know),Oh did I mention slow?
> 
> My problem, like others, my cable is worst. Charter cable doesn't even offer HD in my area. They just started offering Digital in 2005. I've seen their picture. No better than DirecTV.
> 
> So I stay with DirecTV. So I limp along with old tech with no hope of seeing a better DVR in the near future. What will the H20 bring us??


If HD not available yet with cable I would stick with HR10-250 unless local OTA sucks. I have read reviews on the r-15 and from what I gather it's worse than directtivo. The HR20 is the HD version of that (NO 30 sec skip etc.)

If your hdtivo has problems, call DTV and purchase the insurance and after 30 days send your unit in for replacement. Although it will always be SLOW as heintz ketchup, the other issues you speak of should be corrected (not sure what you mean by bad pq). Remember though that if you aquire new insurance, DTV will lock you into a NEW contract so BEWARE!

If Charter has gone digital HD is probably not far behind. Call them first. If HD is avail in the next 6 months, I would wait to make ANY changes to your DTV account.


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