# Another Roamio disappointment



## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

Let me start by saying I've been with Tivo for over a decade, and it's still my favorite DVR. But aside from the ongoing failure of getting streaming to Android devices to work, there's one thing that still really bothers me about my Roamio Pro: Home media access.

I just shut down my old Windows Home Server that I built in 2008. I was using Tivo's Home Media apps to view my photos and listen to my music through the Tivo and it had worked just fine (despite its dated user interface).

Now I bought a Synology DS412+ NAS that comes with seeming a lot of capability, to include DLNA. But I find that out-of-the-box, my state-of-the-art Roamio Pro won't talk to it at all!

I've looked around, and it seems I can go through some Linux machinations to get PyTivo running on the DS412+, involving putty, ssh, and maybe some voodoo chant.

I've also found some other media streaming boxes that apparently *will* talk to the DS412+ right out of the box. So I ask myself, *why* is this second generation "one box to rule them" Roamio Pro *still* not easily able to communicate with NAS devices?

So now I put this issue up to the many of you who are much farther along than I am in this new "quest": here, in mid-2014, what do YOU recommend for viewing my personal photos, music, and movies (mostly home movies) on my 2007 HDMI HDTV?


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## scicarb (Sep 12, 2006)

I feel your pain.I've owned seven TiVos over the years. Plus I've been a longtime pytivo user, but the Roamio won't reliably see the shares any more. So I'm seriously considering moving to Plex with a Roku or an android stick. This may be the last TiVo I buy. I'm also truly underwhelmed by the strategy to chase Apple in the mobile streaming market when they sell fewer devices than just Samsung. Overall the Roamio feels hobbled. Maybe they made too many compromises to make the cableco happy, or they dropped the ball in QA testing...either way it is less than it could have been.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

So you're disappointed that a new box still doesn't do something that your old boxes also didn't do? and that Tivo didn't claim it could do? 

DLNA just has not ever been on Tivo's roadmap, it's just one of those things they don't feel is important (not saying I agree with them)


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> So you're disappointed that a new box still doesn't do something that your old boxes also didn't do? and that Tivo didn't claim it could do?
> 
> DLNA just has not ever been on Tivo's roadmap, it's just one of those things they don't feel is important (not saying I agree with them)


Yes, I am disappointed. It's not 2005 any more. Or 2008. I still love it as a DVR. But a $900 box in 2014 should pretty much do everything the myriad also-rans can do. DLNA or UPnP or *something*. Tivo Desktop software for Windows was cutting edge around a decade ago (maybe). But the world is less windows-centric now. If they can toss in Netflix, Hulu, MLB, Spotify, Pandora, etc., I don't think I'm asking for the moon.

Oh, and if you still think I'm not right to be disappointed, then let me fall back on the "promised" Android streaming that's still coming out just any day now....


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Didn't TiVo announce some sort of DLNA deal a year or so ago?

2012. Looks like the page no longer exists.

This work?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=492612


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## sheshechic (Apr 14, 2012)

It really is sad that Tivo doesn't offer Plex. IMO, it's easier than DLNA. Since they don't, you could either add Roku, Fire TV or a new TV to the mix. With Roku and Fire TV you can use Plex, plus Netflix and Amazon (including Prime) look and behave much better than on Tivo. With a tv upgrade you'll get DLNA.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

SullyND said:


> Didn't TiVo announce some sort of DLNA deal a year or so ago?
> 
> 2012. Looks like the page no longer exists.
> 
> ...


Ah, they announced this DLNA deal in just 2012? Well, no wonder it's not ready yet. It's probably slated to arrive just after android streaming, and at least a month before hell freezes over!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tivo has always been behind in services other than their core DVR strengths. it shouldnt be a surprise.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> tivo has always been behind in services other than their core DVR strengths. it shouldnt be a surprise.


This is why I have another device connected to each of my tv's. Tivo is a great DVR, but for streaming or DLNA you need to go with another box.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> tivo has always been behind in services other than their core DVR strengths. it shouldnt be a surprise.


I guess I foolishly thought the whole "one box to rule them all" advertising would have at least implied pulling content from a CIFS or NFS share on my home network without still needing "Tivo Desktop". Of course, I would have bought the box anyway, but I was hoping for just a bit more than what was delivered.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

This is why I run my computer with my TV as the primary display 99% of the time. I can play anything on my computer on my TV (or stream it from my computer to my android tablet . Only when I want to watch live TV do I switch the display to the TiVo.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That was advertising speak, which is nearly always BS for any product. Plus, it was for a different product, the Premiere, and was eventually dropped.

Buy a product for what it actually does, not for what you would like it to do.

pyTivo is awesome, the instructions i found by quickly searching for your NAS looked fairly simple to follow, even if you don't know linux. I use it in my WHS setup without issue.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I just can't help but notice how few devices that are TV-connected can even be found/bought these days, which don't support DLNA, even going back years ago. Other devices shipped without it, and got it later.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

jrtroo said:


> That was advertising speak, which is nearly always BS for any product. Plus, it was for a different product, the Premiere, and was eventually dropped.
> 
> Buy a product for what it actually does, not for what you would like it to do.
> 
> pyTivo is awesome, the instructions i found by quickly searching for your NAS looked fairly simple to follow, even if you don't know linux. I use it in my WHS setup without issue.


They looked simple to me, too. The reality so far has been different. And I found some of the helper packages were abandoned. Installing a bootstrapper also means no software support from Synology. I'm still working through some dead ends.

I think I'm going to save myself grief and buy a WD TV for $100 and use my TiVo for only DVR.

Thanks


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bmgoodman said:


> They looked simple to me, too. The reality so far has been different. And I found some of the helper packages were abandoned. Installing a bootstrapper also means no software support from Synology. I'm still working through some dead ends.
> 
> I think I'm going to save myself grief and buy a WD TV for $100 and use my TiVo for only DVR.
> 
> Thanks


I own two WD TV Live Hubs with 1TB internal notebook drives. They are hands-down the best alternative for OTT apps via TiVo, IMO. YMMV, of course. When it comes to the most support, for the most formats and most standards, it's hard to beat.

There is not a single complaint I have about them. The thing I've noticed, and many others have as well, is they have a gigabit ethernet port, and switch ports confirm gigabit connection, yet they only work at 100Mbit speeds. WD updates the software frequently, and gives FULL changelogs. I'm guessing if they could fix the slow networking, they would have by now.

I use them as NAS storage for my laptop backups, and wish the gigabit worked at gigabit (or even just half of gigabit). One oddly absent feature is wireless. The hub models don't have wireless built in, so an external USB adapter is required. Flash drives and additional external drives can be hooked up to the USB 2.0 ports (3 total, supporting hubs for more).

What I find odd about the choice of hard drive is that they didn't use an AV-GP drive in such an AV intensive product. They used a WD Blue notebook drive. Older model used a height that wouldn't fit in a modern laptop. Newer ones use slimmer notebook-fitting height drives.

They also have a slingplayer built in, and the product is highly configurable, versatile, and quite the speed freak on everything but that ethernet port matter. It has been a year since I last bought one, so maybe newer ones run faster there.

I highly doubt anybody will be disappointed by WD TV products (other than the slow gigabit ethernet matter, if you really need speed there.

I'd be interested to hear from others who have the other WD TV products, and to know of anything that might have been changed over the last year (in the hardware, which firmware updates can't magically change the specs of).

They also have HDMI v1.4 outputs, component, composite, and multiple audio options.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Do the WD TV products handle ISOs?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> Do the WD TV products handle ISOs?


I think they do. I know I can rip a DVD to the standard DVD file system (same file names and structures as on a DVD) and they will play it.

I'm tempted to say yes to ISO files, but can't recall for sure.

I once mistakenly told you that they supported Amazon prime streaming, but they did not have that support at that time. It may have since been added.

I'll get back to you after I see where they are at, at this point. So many updates go out, adding completely new features, along with the updates, it's hard to keep up.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

bmgoodman said:


> I guess I foolishly thought the whole "one box to rule them all" advertising would have at least implied pulling content from a CIFS or NFS share on my home network without still needing "Tivo Desktop". Of course, I would have bought the box anyway, but I was hoping for just a bit more than what was delivered.


I would have thought the complete opposite because I doubt 1% of Tivo customers have a need to pull content from networked shares.


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## jackief (Nov 15, 2013)

I have a WD Live box I bought recently to connect to the slingbox which is connected to the tivo mini which is in another location. I can confirm no Amazon prime streaming. We use the WD box just for the sling app and the netflix app from our cottage. The sling app is g*d-awful slow, but sure beats needing to have cable or another solution to watch hi def. We are upgrading the router here so perhaps the interface would be better. In my research it was the best solution to get the sling onto the tv without having to go through a phone etc.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

I just got a 3rd gen WD TV, which easily streams from my NAS. I also get slide shows with transitions and background music. Roamio lacks any of these skills. I don't plan to keep beating this dead horse. I will return to complaining about the lack of android streaming...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

bmgoodman said:


> I just got a 3rd gen WD TV, which easily streams from my NAS. I also get slide shows with transitions and background music. Roamio lacks any of these skills. I don't plan to keep beating this dead horse. I will return to complaining about the lack of android streaming...


As long as TiVo does not say the Roamio is has the skills you want, as you put it, skills that TiVo never said it had, this post should be in the suggestion part of this Forum.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

At the rate things are going my next pair of shoes is likely to support DLNA streaming to my TV. Practically everything can do it. But not the "most advanced television recording device"... heck the stupid thing barely can manage its own feature set, let alone third-party "supported" apps. (I just noticed the Netflix itty-bitty-window that usually shows the credits now is showing a tiny window into the full screen of the credits rather than the full screen shrunken down to the tiny window.)

I imagine we might see that one fixed in the 2017 update -- presuming they don't replace the Roamio line with yet another name and then abandon work on older models.

The only thing I can really credit the Roamio with is being fast at what it does as whenever I end up back in the Premier (that I have to keep active because the Roamio fails recording so much) and it's just amazing how I could ever have endured that agonizingly slow interface. And I suppose that's why I never used the HD interface on the Series 3. 

Words cannot express how disappointed I've become over the last few years and few iterations with TiVo's product. Their name is now synonymous with the antithesis of innovation in this market category. They are now existing almost exclusively on the work they did a decade and longer ago.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Funny thing about all this lack of DLNA support in the Roamio talk:

Back in the speculation thread, where everybody was guessing what the Roamio would bring and stating their hopes, I brought up DLNA support, since it hadn't come up yet.

I got sacked by multiple members, from multiple directions... Who would even want DLNA? What good was it? DLNA is junk! I pretty much excused myself from participating in such a hostile thread.

If DLNA is so bad, useless, flawed, and all the other negative things it was called, in the speculation thread, then why is it one of the things I use the most when not watching TiVo recordings, and it never gives me any problems?

I think TiVo is just afraid of giving us the power to "bring our own content", such as via NAS devices. They'd have to figure out some way to make their analytics work to sell our DLNA usage data, as well as figure out how to force us to see ads while viewing DLNA content. Gotta get the Charmin promo in our face somehow...


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

nooneuknow said:


> I think TiVo is just afraid of giving us the power to "bring our own content", such as via NAS devices. They'd have to figure out some way to make their analytics work to sell our DLNA usage data, as well as figure out how to force us to see ads while viewing DLNA content. Gotta get the Charmin promo in our face somehow...


Thanks, nooneuknow, for the feedback. Above all else remember to "enjoy the go!"TM


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

TiVo is a great one box solution if you only want the things it does well. For me, TiVo is a great DVR, nothing more and I rely on Google TV and a network PC for everything else. There is no one box solution for me, everything else falls short, not just TiVo. I have certainly been happy with DLNA for my network file playback needs but I have seen many others indicate it isn't well suited for theirs. Plex, PlayOn, and PlayLater have become really useful for me.


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## DarcyM (Jan 2, 2002)

I use DLNA all the time. I am so glad my TV has it built in. Every now and then I will fire up my Google TV to use plex for the pretty interface, but the DLNA is a god send to see all my MP4s on my TV. If TiVo wanted to, they could implement it fairly easy enough if they really wanted to. But sadly it doesn't seem they want to.


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## Danziru (Oct 11, 2013)

I have to agree completely with most of the sentiment here. It's not a herculean task to add this functionality. Most phones have it built in, most smart TVs have it built in (LG and Samsung for sure for a few years now). I could go on. What really gets me is that I switched over from a retail Moxi HD DVR which came out in 2008 and played local media via DLNA just fine. My Tivo Roameo Pro was an upgrade in some respects, and a big step back in others.

The key things for me are:
1. I don't want another device if I don't need one. I want the "one box"
2. Having other devices mean I need another 2 remotes. One to change the receiver input and then the device remote

I have a roku which works well for this, but I shouldn't need it. It adds clutter and it's a whole bunch of extra stuff I need to teach the family. Please add support for local media. I would actually pass around a donation jar if I could!


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

*I was just on the WD website, and spent a good chunk of time there:
*
1. The WD TV Live Hub w/internal drive seems to be discontinued (or in limbo).

2. The other products are moved-around, and the spec PDFs are pretty outdated on what I'm used to seeing there.

3. They now have a "WD Elements Play" product that's like the Live Hub, minus the streaming services, and it's not on the main media player page.

*It's like they are following Roku's lead when it comes to naming their products in confusing ways, and recycling product names. Listed in order of features.*

1. WD TV Play - Streaming device for streaming services, USB, & NAS content.

2. WD TV Live - Same as above, but adds "Plays MPEG2 videos and DTS audio"

3. WD TV - Same as the two above, but adds "Share your Miracast-enabled Android screen on your TV" & "Customize your WD TV home screen".

*So, the plainly-named "WD TV" is now the King, as opposed to the lowest rank: *http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homeentertainment/mediaplayers/

*Another page with the "WD Elements Play" on it (and other AV products):* http://www.wdc.com/en/products/catalog/?segment=3

*The marketing and specs make the .ISO file playing seem questionable. Some products list as ISO/VOB supporting, but deeper in read like only VOB is supported.*


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

nooneuknow said:


> *I was just on the WD website, and spent a good chunk of time there:
> *
> 1. The WD TV Live Hub w/internal drive seems to be discontinued (or in limbo).
> 
> ...


Yes, the naming scheme by WD is pretty pathetic! The shocking part is that WD TV, the "king" as you put it, has no support for Netflix, while the two "lower" models still do.

In my case, having Netflix on Tivo (hooray!), I didn't like the omission, but I'm going to live with another product that has a notable "hole" in its feature set.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

nooneuknow said:


> *The marketing and specs make the .ISO file playing seem questionable. Some products list as ISO/VOB supporting, but deeper in read like only VOB is supported.*


Their product naming is awful. Their website is awful. Their PDF's are awful.

But, my WD TV Live does play .ISOs directly. Always has.

I can't vouch for the ability of any other WD TV <*> products.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bmgoodman said:


> Yes, the naming scheme by WD is pretty pathetic! The shocking part is that WD TV, the "king" as you put it, has no support for Netflix, while the two "lower" models still do.
> 
> In my case, having Netflix on Tivo (hooray!), I didn't like the omission, but I'm going to live with another product that has a notable "hole" in its feature set.


They can add Netflix in a later software update. The first gen WD TV Live Hub originally did not have the Sling Player app, and it came in an update. The second gen shipped with it. I'm hoping since the other products are now third gen, that the Live Hub is just in limbo, rather than discontinued.

Unlike TiVo, WD tries to make everything right before allowing public consumption. If they can't, they don't release it, or release it minus whatever they are having a problem with.

Netflix is supposed to be able to run on anything. I don't believe that WD is going to leave it out of the WD TV (3rd gen) King of the current product lineup. I'd expect whatever the version that it gets, will be the best ever, on any device. If all third gen WD TV products nixed Netflix, I might start to worry about it not ever being available. Again, unlike TiVo, WD doesn't say "coming soon", or otherwise promise things before they are ready. Your WD TV has a newer chip than the others. So, unless that chip has a fatal Netflix flaw that can't be resolved, I'd think that WD is just waiting for Netflix to provision and provide the base software platform to build on, or Netflix just needs to update something on their end for the SoC used.

It's better to know something is not included in a product, not be mislead, and wind up with a pleasant surprise one day in the future, as opposed to being lead to believe what's missing is about to "come soon", and keep hearing that until the next generation has come out.

In TiVo's case, I really believe that the Roamio is the final hardware device TiVo will ever make (in the retail DVR space). They may make some hardware revisions, and release major hardware revisions of non-hard drive devices, like the Mini and Stream, perhaps even adding some new hardware features (which might include newer chipsets).

Have you tested ISO file compatibility, so aaronwt can get his answer? If not, I guess I may just have to rip a DVD to ISO and see what happens.

EDIT/ADD: I see kdmorse has verified the WD TV Live plays ISOs directly. It would be good to know the generation, and confirm/refute other generations and models.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

kdmorse said:


> Their product naming is awful. Their website is awful. Their PDF's are awful.
> 
> But, my WD TV Live does play .ISOs directly. Always has.
> 
> I can't vouch for the ability of any other WD TV <*> products.


Yeah, it's a real mess, which makes me think "mid refresh cycle".

What generation is your unit, and what is the model number of it (that can help determine the generation).


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

nooneuknow said:


> What generation is your unit, and what is the model number of it (that can help determine the generation).


WD TV Live Streaming Media Player
P/N: WDBHG70000NBK-01

It has no other useful markings, so I hope that's enough. It's not the original launch generation (I think). But I've had it long enough that it might not be the current generation.

However, I bought my father a seemingly identical one (I didn't compare part numbers) recently, just grabbed it off the shelf, it looks like mine, and it plays .ISOs as well. So I don't think that can be too many generations behind.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

bmgoodman said:


> So now I put this issue up to the many of you who are much farther along than I am in this new "quest": here, in mid-2014, what do YOU recommend for viewing my personal photos, music, and movies (mostly home movies) on my 2007 HDMI HDTV?


The current favorite for handling local media and online streaming (In one box) is the Amazon FireTV. Supports Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime and tons of other services, and because it's running Android, XBMC works amazingly well on it. $100.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> They can add Netflix in a later software update. [...] Unlike TiVo, WD tries to make everything right before allowing public consumption. If they can't, they don't release it, or release it minus whatever they are having a problem with. [...] Netflix is supposed to be able to run on anything. I don't believe that WD is going to leave it out of the WD TV (3rd gen) King of the current product lineup.


The last year or so, Netflix has begun limit who runs their app. I know a few companies who don't meet Netflix's possibly shifting sales requirement. Tho can and do obviously cherry pick others as they go for strategic reasons. I wouldn't say it's a given WD gets Netflix on this new box (and for whatever it's worth my email to their PR person at launch on this question was ignored).


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

davezatz said:


> The last year or so, Netflix has begun limit who runs their app. I know a few companies who don't meet Netflix's possibly shifting sales requirement. Tho can and do obviously cherry pick others as they go for strategic reasons. I wouldn't say it's a given WD gets Netflix on this new box (and for whatever it's worth my email to their PR person at launch on this question was ignored).


That's good to know.

Any way this is something that I could/should have read about somewhere?

I'm not questioning what you say, just wondering if there might be some links to some relevant articles I (we) could review. I suppose they had to do something, or we'd be buying toasters with Netflix support in the future...


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> Any way this is something that I could/should have read about somewhere? I'm not questioning what you say, just wondering if there might be some links to some relevant articles I (we) could review. I suppose they had to do something, or we'd be buying toasters with Netflix support in the future...


The conversations I had were probably confidential, but I know at least two companies/products blocked out. Don't know if there's anything public but it seems to be common knowledge amongst many I've interacted with.


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