# Survivor 12/16 finale and reunion show discussion *spoilers*



## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Wow, that was unexpected. Glad Todd won, though. I would've hated to see Amanda or Courtney skate through.

Jaime was insane during the jury questioning.

Courtney looks like a completely different person at the reunion show, almost as though she's sought treatment for an eating disorder since it wrapped.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Who's that blonde who ate Courtney???

Is Todd wearing a mullet?

OMG Denise, people lied in Survivor? NO WAY!!


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Neenahboy said:


> Wow, that was unexpected. Glad Todd won, though. I would've hated to see Amanda or Courtney skate through.


We're scrambling here at work.
Live from Todd's living room for 2News at 10.

He hasn't even won in this time zone yet.

(I work at the CBS affiliate in Utah)

The only Survivor's I've watched in the last 5 years have been the Finale's I've had to air, I'm off Thursdays.

phox


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

Todd will make a good lawyer one day. Up until the final TC, I thought Amanda played the better game, but she did not handle the questioning as well as Todd.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

I love how Jeff took Denise to the mat for not aligning herself with Peih-Gee and Erik. And I couldn't even follow her line of reasoning for not doing that!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I didn't mean to read this thread. I am going to watch the finale now. Todd won, well I after the questioning, I guess I was actually pulling for courtney, but I would not want to have to vote for any of them.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Crap.

I really dislike when the biggest liar turns into the biggest winner.


I thought Amanda played best. Like Erik said, by far the most-rounded player. Won challenges of all types, schemed well, was likeable, etc. Editing must have changed a ton, since I would have clearly voted for her.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Wohooo! Go Mark Burnett! 

And for the inevitable people who say it's not fair to give Denise money just because, it's Mark Burnett's money, he can give it to whoever he wants.


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## veruca salt (Jun 30, 2007)

At least Denise has a reason for sporting mullet!!


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Doesn't someone have to lie to win this game?

I agree with The Flush. Amanda did [charles barkley voice]terrble[charles barkely voice/] in the jury questioning. Really, her opening statement was what turned me personally off and I believe it also turned off the jury.

I didn't care what she said after that.

And I was rooting for her until then.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Hmmmmm, Survivor Micronesia. Interesting concept.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Survivor: Brooklyn. Yo, I got your alliance right here! OH!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

After Todd gave what must be one of the worst jury statements in history (in effect, "I'd like to thank the jury for being such a bunch of losers"), he made a remarkable recovery. I still would have preferred Amanda, though.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

I wanted Amanda to win as well...........she is HAWT!! Speaking of HAWT........Courtney!!!! Wow!!! Good on Mark Brunette for the charity money to the Lunch Lady. James is still kicking himself in the @$$! Glad he got the $100K.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

It was nice of Mark Burnette to give Denise the money. But, I hope that someone who's watched this show has the ability to give her the kind of job that allows her to be at home with her family in the evenings, something that she can be proud of.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sadara said:


> It was nice of Mark Burnette to give Denise the money. But, I hope that someone who's watched this show has the ability to give her the kind of job that allows her to be at home with her family in the evenings, something that she can be proud of.


Or maybe her employer will be shamed into giving her the lunch-lady job back...

I'll bet the person whose job title she mentioned will be the biggest villain in town tomorrow!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Okay now that I have watched it, I am glad that James won some money and that Denise got some also. I am hoping Denise will take the money and maybe get into a totally different job then lunch lady or janitor. 

Do you think Eric is still a virgin?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I wanted Amanda to win, as I thought she played a great game. But that final speech. It sucked. She made no cohesive (or coherent) effort to actually sway people. And that's what it's all about. She lost her million at the final TC. Courtney had no real chance, but I thought she did an excellent job at TC. Not enough to sway the jury (or me), but she came out smelling... ok. Whereas she went in stinkin'. 

Kudos to Todd. He truly was a student of the game. Strategy & luck, he used both. His efforts at final TC were the opposite of Amanda's. He begged, pleaded, cajoled, lied, played, did everything he could to win people over. And it worked. He went in stinking to high heaven, and came out smelling . . . like a million bucks. :up:

Seriously, he did a masterful job of getting people to see that the strategies of the game--the lying, the conniving, the backstabbing--were necessary to get him to the finals, and that on a personal level he loved 'em all. True or not? Doesn't matter as long as they believed him.

Excellent season. Nice twists, interesting characters. Looking forward to Micronesia, and _Fans vs Favorites_.

PS: How cold can a school district be to demote a lunch lady to a janitor? Because her celebrity is disruptive? Methinks heads may roll as word spreads of this.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I found out James is an even bigger dumbass than I thought previously 

I thought he had 4 potential tribal councils where he could have played the two HII he had, turns out he only had 3!

At least Jeff called him on it.


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## thumperxr69 (Mar 22, 2004)

I agree 100%. I really thought Amanda would run away with the voting. 

I was waiting for Jeff to ask her what she thought about being the most blurred Survivor contestant ever. Will there be an uncut version???? Sign me up...

T


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

Todd wins.

Bah.

On to next season. Interesting idea on the favorites thing. I hope the challenges are all brand new, and that even though the former players have the advantage of formerly playing, that it's still anyone's game.

deb


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Todd was masterful at the final tribal council. I was particularly impressed with how he handled Jean Robert. Basically telling him "I had to get rid of you because you are so smart."

I haven't watched anything beyond the announcement of the winner. I'm curious to see what all you guys are talking about with James, Denise, and the favorites thing. I'll check it out tomorrow.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

Watching delayed.

:up: to Mark Burnett. 

Good Luck Denise! She'll surely have a Merry Christmas now.

Boo to Denise' Boss.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

debtoine said:


> On to next season. Interesting idea on the favorites thing. I hope the challenges are all brand new, and that even though the former players have the advantage of formerly playing, that it's still anyone's game.


I wonder which former players they will pick. And it is interesting since Todd was also a survivor fan growing up that they decided to have a season of survivor fans to compete. It will make the game interesting!

Do the players in the final 3, 4, 5 spots get money for staying on that long? So James and Denise will get more money on top of that?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Do the players in the final 3, 4, 5 spots get money for staying on that long? So James and Denise will get more money on top of that?


Yes, there is a sliding prize scale for the contestants, but it drops off pretty fast.

I love the way Probst handles these reunion shows. Despite all his well known cliches during the shows, he really brings it home.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Are you still a virgin?


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

hefe said:


> I love the way Probst handles these reunion shows. Despite all his well known cliches during the shows, he really brings it home.


Me too. Remember back in the early days when CBS would get Bryant Gumbel to do the reunion show? And it was so painfully obvious from his clueless questions that he hadn't watched any episode of the series?

And then there was that year they had Rosie host the reunion show. That was a train wreck too. I think it was the very next year that CBS finally let Probst take the reins, him being the person who knew the contestants better than anyone.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Wohooo! Go Mark Burnett!
> 
> And for the inevitable people who say it's not fair to give Denise money just because, it's Mark Burnett's money, he can give it to whoever he wants.


You are right, but it was a bad idea. He should have done it in private after the show.

It does make it look like welfare, and winning for sucking at life. 

Why the need to announce it on the show? Because he would get more than 50k of free publicity for his tv show.

Her husband looked wholly embarrassed. The way they portray it the family exists off her $7 an hour lunch lady job.

Burnett should have handled differently. Nothing wrong with doing it, but no need to be self-serving and potentially embarass/emasculate someone in the process.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

JR, a lengend in his own mind. What a schmuck. Todd did a good job buttering him up at final TC.


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## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

veruca salt said:


> At least Denise has a reason for sporting mullet!!


That reasoning made no sense to me. Hasn't she ever heard of pulling your hair back in an elastic? Not all lunch ladies have mullets.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I would imagine Denise wears her hair like that because it's easy to take care of and she likes it. Good enough reasons in my book.

Courtney really redeemed herself in my eyes, starting 2 or 3 episodes back but really cemented in the final. I wouldn't have voted for her, but I don't dislike her so much any more.

And I don't think Amanda did poorly in the last TC so much as Todd delivered a knockout job. The whole "He shut him up!" laughfest by the jury after JR's question really did him good.

And so the next Survivor is not going to be another all-stars, or at least not exactly. That's a good thing but It'll all depend on who they have back from previous seasons. Phil said one of this group would be there. Any bets who? My money is on James.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Did Probst ever say what would happen if the final vote ended in a tie? Do they split the million? Do they have a fire-starting challange at the reunion show???


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Did anyone notice Amanda wasn't interviewed at the Reunion show? Unusual for anyone, let alone someone who finished third.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

A few comments from the Finale and Reunion:

1) Although I wanted Amanda to win, she blew it big time in the final TC. She could not explain why she deserved it more than Todd and that is why she lost.

2) Courtney actually did a very good Job at TC. I think she earned the extra vote she got. (Since they did show it on the air, I went to CBS and it was)


Spoiler



Frosti


 that gave her the 2nd Vote. She pulled 2nd place away from Amanda

3) Todd is not my favorite Survivor, but I do like to see someone who plays the game win.

4) Does Denise really think that this was a Charity outing? When she said, she would beat everyone else because she "deserved the money." I almost lost it. This isn't "Queen for a day", it is Survivor. You get $1Mil for being poor. I was kind of hoping Jeff would poll the "jury" about Denise winning and see her reaction. I don't think she would have gotten any votes.

Since this could be a spoiler


Spoiler



Who do we think they will bring back for Survivor:Micronesia? Jeff specified "popular" players and that one of this seasons survivor will be back.


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## Indiana627 (Jan 24, 2003)

Once Amanda won the final immunity I thought she'd win the million for sure. She did terrible at the final council. I can't believe Courtney got more votes than Amanda. Courtney was the most undeserving. Poor Denise, at least Burnett has a heart (and apparently some money laying around - so why not spend some of it on HD equipment!). After hearing she got demoted, you just knew she wasn't going to win the fan voted $100k (she just can't catch a break it seems). What the heck did Todd do with his hair? I think most of them looked better on the show than the reunion!


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## Indiana627 (Jan 24, 2003)

RBlount said:


> Since this could be a spoiler
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I've heard it's


Spoiler



James


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

bqmeister said:


> Watching delayed.
> 
> :up: to Mark Burnett.
> 
> ...


You know, here's the thing. If you are picked for Survivor, why would you get your job back? You have to make a decision to go on the show or stay with your job. If you choose to go, your employer does not have to keep your job waiting for you. You are gone for up to 40-60 days. This isn't the army or reserves. If they want to fill your spot, they can do it. When you come back, tough cookies. Find another job.

I like that Burnett gave Denise some money.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Indiana627 said:


> I think most of them looked better on the show than the reunion!


That happens to me almost every season of Survivor. The reunion show pops up and there sit a bunch of strangers.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

macquariumguy said:


> Phil said one of this group would be there.


Umm...Jeff? You're mixing your CBS reality shows, me thinks. 

Speaking of Jeff, did it look to anyone else like he had dimple-enhancing surgery? They just looked not-quite-natural to me during the reunion show.

And man - that blurr-o-vision guy sure could have spent some time on Denise in that last competition episode. We didn't need to see some of that!


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## etexlady (Jun 23, 2002)

For me, that was a totally unsatisfactory ending to another season of Survivor.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

any guesses on who will be on the next show?

Do we need to spoil this ?? I'll be safe



Spoiler



I'm guessing not Hatch.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

marksman said:


> You are right, but it was a bad idea. He should have done it in private after the show.
> 
> It does make it look like welfare, and winning for sucking at life.
> 
> ...


I don't think that either one of them could spell "emasculate", so it's a non-issue.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I'm sure that a tie would be broken with a runoff. Basically, whoever voted for the 3rd-place person would have to change their votes for one of the two tied players.

Denise's explanation for her hair had to do with her being a lunch lady, which she no longer is. I'm surprised Jeff didn't point that out after her answer.

When Jeff was talking about the upcoming season, he said something to the effect of "past rivalries" in regards to the previous contestants. I'd be surprised that with 14 or so prior seasons, that they'd pick more than one from any one season for a team of 8 or 10 or however many. Who knows.

I also can't believe he didn't say anything to Amanda about the blurring. Richard Hatch got less blurring than she did.

While I think she should have stopped short of the "sucks at life" comment, I did agree with Courtney's general point about Denise's sympathy play.

So did Courtney get $100,000 for 2nd place? I always thought that was the standard second place prize (thinking of the Outback season when Colby chose Tina instead of Keith, and the reference to his "$900,000 decision" since he surely would have beaten Keith). Anyway, I just figured they would have mentioned it since she beat out Amanda for it during the vote.

So what was up with no car reward this season? No sponsors?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Indiana627 said:


> at least Burnett has a heart (and apparently some money laying around - so why not spend some of it on HD equipment!).


Amen to that! With the locales they go to HD would be awesome.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> That happens to me almost every season of Survivor. The reunion show pops up and there sit a bunch of strangers.


I was disappointed most at Amanda's whole makeup. She was so HAWT in the show, but the "glamorous" didn't suit her well in the reunion.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Courtney getting more votes than Amanda was shocking...

Also - Amanda made a HUGE blunder by speaking - she completely and totally blew any chance she had of winning by being pathetic and apologetic.

Oh - and based on the "are you still a virgin" question, was Jeff essentially calling the dumb blonde a tramp?

During her questioning, I was pleading at the TV for her to just sit down and shut up before she embarrassed herself any more than she already had... Talk about an over-inflated opinion of self... wow...


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

I was thinking Amanda should have made more of an effort to get Todd out and go to the finals with Denise and Courtney. I would think she should have easily gotten more votes than those 2. Although, I must say, Courtney impressed me at the final TC.


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

jr461 said:


> I was thinking Amanda should have made more of an effort to get Todd out and go to the finals with Denise and Courtney. I would think she should have easily gotten more votes than those 2. Although, I must say, Courtney impressed me at the final TC.


I think Amanda was correct in thinking that she couldn't beat Denise, but she could beat Courtney and Todd. I think this is why that have a 3-person final vote now; to prevent Amanda from taking Courtney to the final and guaranteeing herself a win.

As many have stated, Amanda blew it at the final TC, whilst Todd was awesome. I was pulling for Amanda until the final TC, at which point I realized that Todd was the deserving winner.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> You know, here's the thing. If you are picked for Survivor, why would you get your job back?


I suspect the show was filmed over summer break, when she wouldn't have been working anyway. Then, when she came back in the fall she got demoted.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

thumperxr69 said:


> I agree 100%. I really thought Amanda would run away with the voting.
> 
> I was waiting for Jeff to ask her what she thought about being the most blurred Survivor contestant ever. Will there be an uncut version???? Sign me up...
> 
> T


Why can they show Courtney and her boney butt, Denise in her granny panties yet blur Amanda's butt every friggin time???


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

JFriday said:


> Why can they show Courtney and her boney butt, Denise in her granny panties yet blur Amanda's butt every friggin time???


Because there's actually an arousal factor for Amanda's butt. The others, no - not at all.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

JFriday said:


> Why can they show Courtney and her boney butt, Denise in her granny panties yet blur Amanda's butt every friggin time???


Because a large part of Amanda's butt is exposed because her swimsuit keeps riding up, but Denise's and Courtney's aren't.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Family said:


> Did anyone notice Amanda wasn't interviewed at the Reunion show? Unusual for anyone, let alone someone who finished third.


They talked to her about the plot to vote out James. I might be missing your point though. I'm not sure what you mean by "interviewed."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Man, this new multi-quote thing is great!!


thumperxr69 said:


> I agree 100%. I really thought Amanda would run away with the voting.
> 
> I was waiting for Jeff to ask her what she thought about being the most blurred Survivor contestant ever. Will there be an uncut version???? Sign me up...
> 
> T





Family said:


> Did anyone notice Amanda wasn't interviewed at the Reunion show? Unusual for anyone, let alone someone who finished third.


Yes, it would have been nice if Jeff even acknowledged her existence in the reunion show. Sure, she came off looking like a tool in the final TC, but I think she was most people's favorite going into that so it's very strange that she didn't even merit a question in the reunion show. I'm sure that was an oversight on Jeff's part.



Jebberwocky! said:


> I found out James is an even bigger dumbass than I thought previously
> 
> I thought he had 4 potential tribal councils where he could have played the two HII he had, turns out he only had 3!
> 
> At least Jeff called him on it.


Yes, we talked about that when he didn't play the HII. He basically had three chances to win one immunity and would have been guaranteed the final four. I wonder if he didn't fully understand the limitations on the use of the HII or if he really didn't think he'd be able to win one of the next two immunity challenges.



hefe said:


> Yes, there is a sliding prize scale for the contestants, but it drops off pretty fast.
> 
> I love the way Probst handles these reunion shows. Despite all his well known cliches during the shows, he really brings it home.


Man, Jeff really didn't pull any punches, did he? He called James and Denise on their stupid in-game moves, he asked Courtney about an eating disorder, he asked Denise about her crazy hairdon't, and asked Erik whether he was a virgin. As long as he was going to be so blunt, I wish he would have asked Todd what the hell happened to his head.



dtle said:


> I was disappointed most at Amanda's whole makeup. She was so HAWT in the show, but the "glamorous" didn't suit her well in the reunion.


I was really looking forward to seeing her in the reunion show because, as a former pageant queen, I was sure she'd make herself up very nice. However, she looked horrible. She was way hotter in the jungle.



jeff125va said:


> So did Courtney get $100,000 for 2nd place? I always thought that was the standard second place prize (thinking of the Outback season when Colby chose Tina instead of Keith, and the reference to his "$900,000 decision" since he surely would have beaten Keith). Anyway, I just figured they would have mentioned it since she beat out Amanda for it during the vote.
> 
> So what was up with no car reward this season? No sponsors?


No idea about the no-car reward. Perhaps when the winner of the car gave it away last season, it really turned the sponsors off, because it's basically seen as a jinx now.

As for the pay, it's never been publicly announced, but all players win something based on their finishing order. There used to be a chart on the Survivor page at Wikipedia, but it's now been changed. Apparently they give the $100k to both 2nd and 3rd place, and then 4th place gets $60k. After that, it drops down pretty fast to somewhere between $2500-5000 for the first person voted off.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, it would have been nice if Jeff even acknowledged her existence in the reunion show. Sure, she came off looking like a tool in the final TC, but I think she was most people's favorite going into that so it's very strange that she didn't even merit a question in the reunion show. I'm sure that was an oversight on Jeff's part.


She actually talked quite a bit about the plot to vote out James and how she kept thinking he was going to play the idol, etc. I think you guys just forgot!


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I also can't believe he didn't say anything to Amanda about the blurring. Richard Hatch got less blurring than she did.


Maybe he didn't have much to blur?


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Oh - and based on the "are you still a virgin" question, was Jeff essentially calling the dumb blonde a tramp?


Sorry, I like Jeff a lot and prefer his questioning to any other host, but that question was out of line. Regardless of what he said on the show. What he and Jamie are doing is their own business. Besides, as you pointed out, what does that say about Jamie?

One other note, Jeff did pull off the switch from Tape to Live for the vote very well. I was actually surprised that they had switch to Live at that time.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> If you are picked for Survivor, why would you get your job back? You have to make a decision to go on the show or stay with your job. If you choose to go, your employer does not have to keep your job waiting for you. You are gone for up to 40-60 days. This isn't the army or reserves. If they want to fill your spot, they can do it. When you come back, tough cookies. Find another job.


It wasn't that she came back home and her job was gone because they filled it. She said she was told the reason was because her being a 'celebrity' (my term, i think, not hers) was causing (or going to cause?) too much disruption with the kids or something like that.

Besides, the show was filmed during the summer... late June to early August. Kids aren't in school and she's probably not working anyways (i think somebody already said that above but can't find it).


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

RBlount said:


> One other note, Jeff did pull off the switch from Tape to Live for the vote very well. I was actually surprised that they had switch to Live at that time.


I absolutely loved the switch this year - no crazy phony Probst riding into the studio on a helicopter after a jetski crap... just a nice cut/disolve... Well done


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

stalemate said:


> She actually talked quite a bit about the plot to vote out James and how she kept thinking he was going to play the idol, etc. I think you guys just forgot!


I don't think that was during the reunion, but the actual final Tribal. I could be mistaken though...

Amanda got VERY little air time during the Reunion, which is FAR from the "norm" from seasons past. Typically, the final 4 get the most air time, and the rest of the people are after-thoughts...


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

RBlount said:


> Sorry, I like Jeff a lot and prefer his questioning to any other host, but that question was out of line.


I agree. I don't know where that came from. When I heard that, I thought WTF was that?


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> I don't think that was during the reunion, but the actual final Tribal. I could be mistaken though...
> 
> Amanda got VERY little air time during the Reunion, which is FAR from the "norm" from seasons past. Typically, the final 4 get the most air time, and the rest of the people are after-thoughts...


It was definitely during the reunion because I just watched it this morning after reading the comments and I was surprised that Amanda had any airtime at all. Maybe less than usual but she was questioned at least once or twice. This is the first season I've seen with a final 3 instead of a final 2 so I can't really say whether her amount of questioning was out of the norm for the last place person at the final. It seemed about right for a 3rd place finish to me, but that is based on only seeing seasons where they have had a final 2 instead of 3.


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

Don't know how true it is, but  this link lists the returning tribe members. Some interesting, unexpected choices if correct.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MauriAnne said:


> Don't know how true it is, but  this link lists the returning tribe members. Some interesting, unexpected choices if correct.


Very interesting. They definitely picked some "lookers." Should be a good season at least from an eye-candy standpoint.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

MauriAnne said:


> Don't know how true it is, but  this link lists the returning tribe members. Some interesting, unexpected choices if correct.


Busted link  Can you fill me in?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> Busted link  Can you fill me in?


Try it again. First time I clicked, it didn't work. The second time it worked fine.

But if that link is to be believed, the returning players are:


Spoiler



Amanda - China
James - China
Yau-Man - Fiji
Parvati - Cook Islands
Ozzy - Cook Islands
Jonathan - Cook Islands
Cirie - Panama
Ami - Vanuatu
Eliza - Vanuatu
Johnny "Fairplay" Dalton - Pearl Islands


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

MauriAnne said:


> Don't know how true it is, but  this link lists the returning tribe members. Some interesting, unexpected choices if correct.


Where's



Spoiler



Rupert!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I thought of this last night while watching and was sure that several people would have already mentioned it so I didn't even think about it again, but since nobody mentioned it, was anyone else reminded of David Spade from "Joe Dirt" when looking at Todd's hair at the reunion? How can he think that's even remotely stylish?









I can't find a current pic of Todd, but it's pretty similar to this.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

Spoiler



Everyone's gonna want to take Fairplay to the finals - if he doesn't get voted out REALLY early.

I'd like to see Rupert again, but he already won a million (fan contest) so they probably only want non-winners for this round. My guess anyway.


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## IndyMark (Oct 18, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Oh - and based on the "are you still a virgin" question, was Jeff essentially calling the dumb blonde a tramp?





RBlount said:


> Sorry, I like Jeff a lot and prefer his questioning to any other host, but that question was out of line. Regardless of what he said on the show. What he and Jamie are doing is their own business. Besides, as you pointed out, what does that say about Jamie?
> 
> One other note, Jeff did pull off the switch from Tape to Live for the vote very well. I was actually surprised that they had switch to Live at that time.





mcb08 said:


> I agree. I don't know where that came from. When I heard that, I thought WTF was that?


I'll agree that whether someone is a virgin is personal, but my feeling is that if they bring it up during the audition process or during the actual taping then they better be prepared to talk about it. Otherwise keep it to yourself in the first place.

I'll second/third the comments of a few others saying that I'm *shocked* that Amanda didn't vote off Todd in the final four. He was obviously her strongest competitor. I can't fathom Denise or Courtney beating Amanda in the final vote, even with Amanda's weak showing with the final jury. Maybe I'm just biased because she's been my favorite player for most of the season.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> But if that link is to be believed, the returning players are:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


If the last person on that list isn't the first person to be voted off that tribe, I'll eat my hat.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

TiVoJedi said:


> Where's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Under a rock somewhere I hope. Beside he


Spoiler



already won a million dollars, he doesn't need to come back.


----------



## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Spoiler



Yau-Man!!!! Woohoo!


----------



## Indiana627 (Jan 24, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Because there's actually an arousal factor for Amanda's butt. The others, no - not at all.


I'd like the chance to judge for myself.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

RBlount said:


> Under a rock somewhere I hope. Beside he
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



When did he "win" anything - IIRC didn't he get a gift?

Put me in the camp that has zero desire to see him play again.


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

Couple things here that nobody has mentioned:

1. What was with Amanda being angry at Todd during the final TC? She told Denise the old "I will not write your name down"....Amanda was lucky that Denise did not repeat that verbatim. Didn't matter because the jury obviously saw her in third place the whole time. However, Amanda showed her true colors there back at camp. Even in the private interview that night with the camera she said she did not say that to Denise. What's EVEN WORSE is that if she was so angry with Todd, she should have VOTED HIM OFF! The thing with Todd happened before the vote; so if she was so angry with him, she should have voted him off. 

2. Very disappointed that PG and Blondie were not asked about how they threw the challenge. Throwing the challenge was bad enough; but PG's calling out James for "not trying hard enough" in a challenge later in the game AND PG's final TC where she said "I played hard in every challenge" was too much for me. Not cool at all, and I'm surprised that Jeff didn't bring it up. We get a virgin question and a hair question but PG is not put on the spot? :down:


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I want Romber!


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

jlb said:


> I want Romber!


at least the ber part


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NinerK said:


> Couple things here that nobody has mentioned:
> 
> 1. What was with Amanda being angry at Todd during the final TC? She told Denise the old "I will not write your name down"....Amanda was lucky that Denise did not repeat that verbatim. Didn't matter because the jury obviously saw her in third place the whole time. However, Amanda showed her true colors there back at camp. Even in the private interview that night with the camera she said she did not say that to Denise. What's EVEN WORSE is that if she was so angry with Todd, she should have VOTED HIM OFF! The thing with Todd happened before the vote; so if she was so angry with him, she should have voted him off.


I think what is said at Tribal rarely, if ever, influences who gets voted out. They all go in knowing who they're going to vote for. They may all want to change their votes based on what is said, but there is always uncertainty since they don't know if others will change, so they stick with what was previously planned.

However, I am surprised that Amanda voted for Denise in that TC. She told Denise in private that she wouldn't vote for Denise, and she easily could have voted for Courtney and not had it affect the outcome. Seems odd that she totally lied like that when she didn't have to.


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think what is said at Tribal rarely, if ever, influences who gets voted out. They all go in knowing who they're going to vote for. They may all want to change their votes based on what is said, but there is always uncertainty since they don't know if others will change, so they stick with what was previously planned.
> 
> However, I am surprised that Amanda voted for Denise in that TC. *She told Denise in private that she wouldn't vote for Denise,* and she easily could have voted for Courtney and not had it affect the outcome. Seems odd that she totally lied like that when she didn't have to.


Exactly, that's why I was surprised at her anger with Todd. Amanda lied to Denise, and "stabbed her in the back" as Denise feared she would and vocalized at TC right before the vote. No reason for Amanda to be upset with Todd; she's guilty of what Denise mentioned and Todd only reacted to what was said. I'm just surprised there was no humility from Amanda; she had no right to be upset with Todd.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Throw me in with the inappropriate question crowd. Regardless of whether it has been brought up before, asking "are you a virgin?" is just not something one asks, especially on national TV. It's not a joke, it's a personal lifestyle choice, and I found it offensive.

I think all talk of Survivor Micronesia: Fans vs Favorites should *not be spoilerized*. We are only talking about generalities. Even the talk of who is going to play would not be a spoiler in my book. Results are spoilers; who the players will be is just info.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JFriday said:


> Why can they show Courtney and her boney butt, Denise in her granny panties yet blur Amanda's butt every friggin time???


Could there be some request from Amanda herself to blur the butt?


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought of this last night while watching and was sure that several people would have already mentioned it so I didn't even think about it again, but since nobody mentioned it, was anyone else reminded of David Spade from "Joe Dirt" when looking at Todd's hair at the reunion? How can he think that's even remotely stylish?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought Todd was trying to imitate Denise.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> I absolutely loved the switch this year - no crazy phony Probst riding into the studio on a helicopter after a jetski crap... just a nice cut/disolve... Well done





jlb said:


> I want Romber!


+1

And put them on separate tribes initially...

now THAT would make for some good television...


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I think Amanda imploded and gave it away. Totally stupid (imo) to let Todd get to the finals. Why does she think people would've voted for Denise? What did Denise ever do??? Just like Courtney, she was just along for the ride. And yes, she was hypocritcal condemning Todd and then screwing Denise. She had it all wrapped up after the last challenge and gave it away..
btw, I thought she looked pretty good at the reunion show..


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

NinerK said:


> 2. Very disappointed that PG and Blondie were not asked about how they threw the challenge. Throwing the challenge was bad enough; but PG's calling out James for "not trying hard enough" in a challenge later in the game AND PG's final TC where she said "I played hard in every challenge" was too much for me. Not cool at all, and I'm surprised that Jeff didn't bring it up. We get a virgin question and a hair question but PG is not put on the spot? :down:


No kidding - this was only the 2nd "throwing" of a challenge (that was shown) in Survivor history... something that should have been mention-worthy without a doubt...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

There's 10 players listed there (on the "previous players" link). Of note, there is one person there that I hope to not see... and one that is an absolute question since they were adamant about never doing it again...


----------



## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

I think Denise has a better mullet than Todd!

I was rooting for Amanda all along until TC. Like others have said Todd really pulled it off when the time came. 

I thought Courtney looked so much better at the reunion show. I could definitely tell she weighed more than when she started the show. Her face is definitely filled out. She's still thin, but she looks sooo much better.

And whoever commented on Jeff's dimples, I was soooo distracted by that. I kept staring and thinking it wasn't real. I thought maybe there's some new dimple surgery.

I also thought Sherea looked good at the reunion, but like others have said, some of these players looked better during the shows.


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> No kidding - this was only the 2nd "throwing" of a challenge (that was shown) in Survivor history... something that should have been mention-worthy without a doubt...


You know, I haven't been that disappointed with a contestant since the jerks who brought back the chicken bones to their tribe and laughed while their tribemates devoured the scraps of chicken meat.....That's how disapointed I was in PG and to a lesser extent Blondie. I didn't know it was only the 2nd throwing of a challenge but I knew it was rare as I can't recall another occurance.

Boo PG; if she hadn't thrown that challenge and then acted that way towards James, I would have totally been rooting for her.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

thumperxr69 said:


> I agree 100%. I really thought Amanda would run away with the voting.


I think she had it won till the final tribal council. Her answers were awful.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> If the last person on that list isn't the first person to be voted off that tribe, I'll eat my hat.


Amen brother. Why give that busted mouth tool one more millisecond in the spotlight?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> There's 10 players listed there (on the "previous players" link). Of note, there is one person there that I hope to not see... and one that is an absolute question since they were adamant about never doing it again...


I think I can easily guess who you hope not to see, but who was adamant about never doing it again?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NinerK said:


> You know, I haven't been that disappointed with a contestant since the jerks who brought back the chicken bones to their tribe and laughed while their tribemates devoured the scraps of chicken meat.....That's how disapointed I was in PG and to a lesser extent Blondie. I didn't know it was only the 2nd throwing of a challenge but I knew it was rare as I can't recall another occurance.
> 
> Boo PG; if she hadn't thrown that challenge and then acted that way towards James, I would have totally been rooting for her.


I don't understand the issue people have with the throwing of the challenge. As we've previously discussed, I hated the way they were unable to keep it on the down low, so it ruined what they were trying to accomplish. But it was an excellent strategic move and would have been incredible if they had been able to pull it off smoothly.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I thought Todd was trying to imitate Denise.


We had joked during the opening recap sequence when Jeff said the 16 Americans were "transported back in time" to ancient China... when we first saw Todd at the reunion set, I said he'd been transported back to 1985. All I could think of was Duran Duran.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Could there be some request from Amanda herself to blur the butt?


I can't imagine she'd wear that and then ask for it to be blurred. I'm sure it's a post-Janet Jackson thing.

Speaking of Amanda, she did great during the plate-balancing challenge. She was so focused, like Courtney was during the one she won balancing on the pipe thing. I was a little worried she was going to blow it by engaging Denise in conversation. I couldn't tell if she was really able to look to the side and see Denise or not, but it was so obvious how badly she was beating Denise. I just wonder whether she knew it or not.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think what is said at Tribal rarely, if ever, influences who gets voted out. They all go in knowing who they're going to vote for.


That's how I always felt, and how I personally would vote.

What happened to me personally while I was still playing would weigh more heavily than the Tribal Council pleading and lying.

And truly, if I became friends with one of the final three more than the other two, that could easily be who I'd vote for.

So how the hell did Todd win? Who would want to be friends with that little weasel? Amanda seemed quite genuine and even nice. Courtney at least was herself.

Does the jury really think it's their duty to give the award to the most deserving? Blah, give it to the person you like the most.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think I can easily guess who you hope not to see, but who was adamant about never doing it again?





Spoiler



Cerie


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't understand the issue people have with the throwing of the challenge. As we've previously discussed, I hated the way they were unable to keep it on the down low, so it ruined what they were trying to accomplish. But it was an excellent strategic move and would have been incredible if they had been able to pull it off smoothly.


Excellent point about the logic and strategy of throwing the challenge. I was more disapointed with PG getting in Jame's face and her overall attitude towards him. Yes it is a game; but I don't see how PG expected James to be anything but angry with her. But he was cordial because he's a good guy. Then she throws it in his face, tries to get him to throw a challenge, expects James to vote with her, and then says she played every challenge "as hard as I could".


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think what is said at Tribal rarely, if ever, influences who gets voted out. They all go in knowing who they're going to vote for. They may all want to change their votes based on what is said, but there is always uncertainty since they don't know if others will change, so they stick with what was previously planned.


In most cases that is true, but in this was one of the few TC that, IMHO, was wide open. I think most jury members saw Amanda and Todd as two heads of the same monster. Jean-Robert said it best, he needed someone to prove why they should win a million dollars, and Todd did.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



He "won" the fan voting for Favorite All-star. Granted everyone knew the results before they were announced, he was constantly getting the most votes on CBS.com


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

RBlount said:


> In most cases that is true, but in this was one of the few TC that, IMHO, was wide open. I think most jury members saw Amanda and Todd as two heads of the same monster. Jean-Robert said it best, he needed someone to prove why they should win a million dollars, and Todd did.


The phrases:

"Hook, line and sinker" and "blow sunshine up his @#!" come to mind. I can't believe JR fell for that.


----------



## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

After the tacky "Are you still a virgin?" question, I was expecting Jeff to ask Todd if his sister really lost the baby... 

I thought Todd was wearing a mullet wig and lipstick.

I was really disappointed with Denise after all of the pity party speaches. That just motivates contestants to cry throughout the game hoping for a handout at the end. Who's to say Chicken wasn't more deserving of 50K?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

RBlount said:


> In most cases that is true, but in this was one of the few TC that, IMHO, was wide open. I think most jury members saw Amanda and Todd as two heads of the same monster. Jean-Robert said it best, he needed someone to prove why they should win a million dollars, and Todd did.


Are you talking about the Final TC where the jury votes? Because my comments were about the TC prior to that, where they voted out Denise and Todd made the comment that made Amanda so mad.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I don't think it matters that Rupert already won $1M, or whether it was the fan vote or whatever. I just can't imagine them bringing anyone back for a 3rd appearance at this point. Other than Johnny Fairplay, I'll be very surprised if anyone from any of the pre-AllStars seasons is chosen for this coming season.


----------



## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> Speaking of Amanda, she did great during the plate-balancing challenge.


She also had the benefit of wearing a hat, which kept her cooler than the other contestants.

How do you show up at the final challenge without a hat?


----------



## bobsbizzy (Jun 20, 2002)

hefe said:


> I love the way Probst handles these reunion shows. Despite all his well known cliches during the shows, he really brings it home.


Yeah, but he's no Julie Chen.  :up:


----------



## bobsbizzy (Jun 20, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> The phrases:
> 
> "Hook, line and sinker" and "blow sunshine up his @#!" come to mind. I can't believe JR fell for that.


I can, JR's all about his own fragile ego.


----------



## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Survior Fever claims to have the list of 10 past players which will be on next season. They have been pretty accurate in the past. Obviously this is a spoiler and should be avoided if you do not want to know!

http://www.survivorfever.net/s16_cast.html


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Survior Fever claims to have the list of 10 past players which will be on next season. They have been pretty accurate in the past. Obviously this is a spoiler and should be avoided if you do not want to know!
> 
> http://www.survivorfever.net/s16_cast.html


Welcome to the thread. We've been discussing this for several hours already.


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Survior Fever claims to have the list of 10 past players which will be on next season. They have been pretty accurate in the past. Obviously this is a spoiler and should be avoided if you do not want to know!
> 
> http://www.survivorfever.net/s16_cast.html


 Post #63


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

bobsbizzy said:


> I can, JR's all about his own fragile ego.


Yeah, I always expect way too much out of the contestants.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

It seems odd to me that Denise is 40 years old and relatively competant, and works for $7 an hour. There are many jobs that pay more than that and require no education. Either she lives in an area with a really depressed job market, or she worked as a lunch lady because she liked it. I work in a restaurant, and no one but teenagers who just started makes $7/hour and NO ONE has a hairdo like Denise.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Welcome to the thread. We've been discussing this for several hours already.





mcb08 said:


> Post #63


I like the new post - at least the link worked


----------



## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Doh! I did a search for the word fever and thought I was safe. Can't get anything by you guys!


----------



## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

This is very interesting from our local news here in Boston. Hmm ...

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/14873834/detail.html


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

she better give back the money!


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Mark Burnett....You've been outwitted!!!!


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

robinreale said:


> This is very interesting from our local news here in Boston. Hmm ...
> 
> http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/14873834/detail.html


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

robinreale said:


> This is very interesting from our local news here in Boston. Hmm ...
> 
> http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/14873834/detail.html


My guess is the truth is somewhere in-between.


----------



## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I may be smeeking, but found this today. Interesting about Denise's situation.

http://bostonist.com/2007/12/17/survivor_denise.php

Edit: Yup, I smeeked. Sorry about that!


----------



## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

macquariumguy said:


> My guess is the truth is somewhere in-between.


I agree. Though I cannot image that Denise is happy about spending her evenings away from her family. Which is likely the reason she's not happy with the situation.

Though I have to say I cannot see much of a difference between a Lunch Lady and a Janitor, except that one is not around to see their family in the evening.


----------



## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

I think anyone who was able to get Todd voted off would have been a shoo-in to win. Amanda should have tried harder to get him booted before the finals. He was responsible for most of the eliminations. Of course he was going to get the majority vote in the finals.


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Doh! I did a search for the word fever and thought I was safe. Can't get anything by you guys!


You could, you know, read the thread you posted in. That way you'd know.

tk


----------



## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

Did anyone notice Courtney giving the finger just before Probst mentioned the "you suck at life" comment?


----------



## Wilhite (Oct 26, 2003)

Joeg180 said:


> Did anyone notice Courtney giving the finger just before Probst mentioned the "you suck at life" comment?


Quite a few people in the audience did. There were quite a few hoots and hollers from them.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

macquariumguy said:


> My guess is the truth is somewhere in-between.


Yup, although the proper response from the district should have been that "they cannot disclose details on the employment status of one of their employees"


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

JFriday said:


> Why can they show Courtney and her boney butt, Denise in her granny panties yet blur Amanda's butt every friggin time???


They only blur the sexy. Disgusting is okay for all ages. 

I'm sick about this ending. I didn't want any of them to win. How about Todd trying to convince the world that he had planned every last detail of the entire show, and that the entire camp were simply his unwitting pawns?  Yeah, sure Todd, you are without a doubt the best player in survivor history. Not. What a ******. Amanda's performance with the Jury was dismal. What was she thinking? There's a case of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. With a minimum of finesse she may have been able to win this thing. She sunk herself with her speeches. Still of the two, Todd deserved to lose less I suppose...

*What I found fun and interesting this season of survivor.
*
1. James made the biggest blunder in Survivor history. Colby can now retire.
2. Not a single Alpha Male made it to the finals.
3. China was probably the most miserable location of all time except possibly Africa. 
4. Can't wait for the "favorites vs. Superfans" next year
5. Oh yes, the extra $50k was a nice touch. That's like chump change to Burnett and it may help her out a little.

That's about it. It was weird year, but overall it still has top ratings and provides decent entertainment. Sign me up for another season.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NinerK said:


> Couple things here that nobody has mentioned:
> 
> 1. What was with Amanda being angry at Todd during the final TC? She told Denise the old "I will not write your name down"....Amanda was lucky that Denise did not repeat that verbatim.


That whole conversation was weird...I rewatched it, and it seems there's some editing going on. They cut away from Amanda, so you don't actually see her as she's saying it, and Denise continues to look all mopey and sad, not like she just got good news, and then there's a jump cut back to Amanda that doesn't fit. It just seems like that conversation was altered somehow.


----------



## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

Everyone knew Todd was a snake, so they were not surprised when he stabbed them in the back and therefore not too pissed off. But most thought Amanda was honest, so when she backstabbed, it pissed people off. Her lack of ability to explain her actions really cost her the win.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm just glad that juries are starting to realize that those who play the game the way it's supposed to be played are simply doing so because they're good at playing the game and not because they're flawed human beings with questionable morals. In the early seasons I was always so frustrated when the jury members would get up there and rant and rave about being lied to and being stabbed in the back. Now, it seems that for the most part, they're actually realizing that those actions are what got the people into the finals, and their inability to do so is why they're on the jury. The holier-than-thou stuff with regard to a game that basically required lying and strategy was always misplaced and I'm glad to see it gone.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

bareyb said:


> *What I found fun and interesting this season of survivor.
> *
> _3. China was probably the most miserable location of all time except possibly Africa. _


Uh - not even close... Stunning beauty, plenty of water, zero squeezing elephant poo to get water...

How do you figure it was the most miserable? Africa was a thousand times worse than China...


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i dont like (probably) the same weenie that others are talking about for the next show. I wish he wouldnt be on . What a waste

the virgin question...well if he did put in on the sheet at the start fine....but still jeff talking about that is over the line a tad. 

Is jeff still seeing julie?

It's crazy that the back row got more airtime than amanda. And i cant believe there was never a school employee on the show before. my wife said there was a teacher. So what's the diff for a lunch lady? Lame excuse folks!

I miss jeff flying in a copter in...but the live reading thing was pretty good. 

remind me, at what point this year did we know there would be final 3 and not 2?


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

newsposter said:


> Is jeff still seeing julie?


According to the following, they were still dating as of this past April...

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/survivor/survivor-host-jeff-probst-stil-5845.aspx


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

newsposter said:


> remind me, at what point this year did we know there would be final 3 and not 2?


I think everyone figured it out when they put the 10th place person (Jamie) on the jury, setting it up so that when the jury had 7 there would be 3 remaining. At least that's when I knew something different was going on. I had never see a season with a final 3 before and I questioned it at that point in the thread here and people explained about a final 3.


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

InterMurph said:


> She also had the benefit of wearing a hat, which kept her cooler than the other contestants.
> 
> How do you show up at the final challenge without a hat?


I forget to post about this, but it was totally apparent during the challenge. What they should have done was made Amanda remove the hat because the others didn't have protection. That way it is fair all around. Yes, you could say "Why didn't the others wear a hat, they easily could have." But the point is, they show up to the final immunity challenge and Amanda is wearing a hat. None of the others are. The Powers That Be on site clearly know that the final II is crucial. Do they let Amanda wear the hat, which opens them up to questions of favoritism? Or do they make Amanda remove the hat and no one is allowed to wear head protection, which makes it a level playing field? It was especially questionable because it seemed like all the others had sweat dripping off of them, but Amanda seemed like she didn't sweat.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

newsposter said:


> remind me, at what point this year did we know there would be final 3 and not 2?


They've done that for the last several seasons, so everyone just assumed it would continue to be this way. As someone in this thread previously pointed out, it makes the game more interesting when someone has to choose two other players to take to the finals rather than just one.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Uh - not even close... Stunning beauty, plenty of water, zero squeezing elephant poo to get water...
> 
> How do you figure it was the most miserable? Africa was a thousand times worse than China...


No I said, it was the most miserable location EXCEPT for Africa. Of all the places they have been, Africa was the worst, followed by China. I'd far rather be in sand than mud.


----------



## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> I forget to post about this, but it was totally apparent during the challenge. What they should have done was made Amanda remove the hat because the others didn't have protection. That way it is fair all around. Yes, you could say "Why didn't the others wear a hat, they easily could have." But the point is, they show up to the final immunity challenge and Amanda is wearing a hat. None of the others are. The Powers That Be on site clearly know that the final II is crucial. Do they let Amanda wear the hat, which opens them up to questions of favoritism? Or do they make Amanda remove the hat and no one is allowed to wear head protection, which makes it a level playing field? It was especially questionable because it seemed like all the others had sweat dripping off of them, but Amanda seemed like she didn't sweat.


At one point Denis had a hat as well and then it was gone.

How about Amanda inverting the rice bowl, nice touch.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

They all choose how they want to dress when they show up at challenges. They all have hats. If they choose not to wear one or use one it is on them. Having Amanda remove her hat would have made no sense. They can wear a hat on a swimming challenge if they so choose.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Joeg180 said:


> At one point Denis had a hat as well and then it was gone.
> 
> How about Amanda inverting the rice bowl, nice touch.


It was a risky strategy. If the next bowl had been a smaller bowl, she would have been in big trouble.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

RBlount said:


> It was a risky strategy. If the next bowl had been a smaller bowl, she would have been in big trouble.


I don't think so. The bottom of the rice bowl was basically flat and she could have sat any of the other dishes on top of it pretty easily. The ridge on the bottom would have actually helped I think.

Inverting the rice bowl gave her the advantage of keeping her stack shorter but she still would have been able to stack on top of it. For most dishes that could have come next, it was as if she had never placed the rice bowl on there to start with. In the case of the next dish being a rice bowl, it paid off big time.

I think it was a really good move.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I think the sweat dripping was for dramatic effect and didn't really play into the outcome of the challenge.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

again, my regular complaint...the one who is getting voted off always gets the most air time...in the final ep, Todd got the most air time...once he wasn't voted out, it was clear that he therefore won the whole thing...totally ruins the watching experience...

PG is the third favorite survivor 

give Jeff a break...he asked the question nicely...he didn't look over at Jamie, give the wink/nod and ask "did you hit that yet?" 

as long as Stephanie is not one of the returning survivors, I'll be happy (I still love her, but enough is enough)...


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

If Eric didn't want the whole world+dog to know he was a virgin, he wouldn't have said as much on camera back in episode 3 (or whatever it was). I don't have a problem with Jeff asking that at the reunion show.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Anubys said:


> PG is the third favorite survivor


goes to show the sad state of contestants - I had her fairly high on my list.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

My 2 cents:

I agree, Amanda LOST this at TC. Never trust anyone who says "Honestly" in front of every response, because they aren't being sincere

I knew Todd won the minute he "shut" JR up and everyone was amazed by it. I KNEW that got him a few votes. I think outside of a couple of seasons, the best liar and schemer has won.

The way Todd described his game reminded me of the Big Brother season where Allison and Jun (I think that was her name) were in the finals and at the jury kept describing all the schemes they pulled to win the game.

I am against giving Denise $50,000 for her "sob story", especially on the air. Is her husband out of work or something? Maybe there's more to her back story, but, the feeling is, if she can afford to give up 2 months of working to be on Survivor with realistically slim shot of winning (and her family getting only ONE income during that time) then I don't believe she's as bad off as they make her sound. I know it sounds callous, but it DOES seem like welfare. How about someone like Courney who works as a waitress, she can't be making too much money, and I'm sure a couple of the others have less than high paying jobs.

I really wish they'd go back to a final 2. I always loved the strategy of deciding who best to go against in the finale. Did the survivors know it was going to be a final 3?

Denise made a huge blunder not going with P-G, but maybe being there, she just didn't see that she was #4 in a three person alliance.

Never thought I'd say it, but Courtney cleaned up a lot better than Amanda. And Courney, IMO stole the whole finale and post show.

I thought it was in VERY bad taste to talk about one's virginity like that on national TV. I could feel his skin crawl when he was asked that question.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

macquariumguy said:


> If Eric didn't want the whole world+dog to know he was a virgin, he wouldn't have said as much on camera back in episode 3 (or whatever it was). I don't have a problem with Jeff asking that at the reunion show.


Except that when Eric first brought it up, he was speaking only of himself and of a moral choice. When Jeff asked, it was less like "are you sticking with that moral choice?", and more like, "did you bang jaime". Or maybe even, "did Jaimie bang *you*?". Not cool to bring her into it; I'm sure she'd agree.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I also can't believe he didn't say anything to Amanda about the blurring. Richard Hatch got less blurring than she did.
> 
> So what was up with no car reward this season? No sponsors?


The blurring is becoming totally rediculous. I've seen more on a sitcom than what they appeared to blur out on Amanda. It's strictly STILL fallout from the Janet Jackson thing. Let it go already!! I mean, shows like Big Brother have overt sexual advances, men and women sleeping in the same bed, and ALMOST doing the nasty. But a little butt cheek (and it couldn't be more than a little really) is too much for the network sensors?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I am against giving Denise $50,000 for her "sob story", especially on the air. Is her husband out of work or something? Maybe there's more to her back story, but, the feeling is, if she can afford to give up 2 months of working to be on Survivor with realistically slim shot of winning (and her family getting only ONE income during that time).


The show was filmed during the summer when she was out of work at the school, anways. Although it could be argued why didn't she find summer employment instead of going on survivor. Although it could *then* be argued that disappearing for a couple trivial months in order to try and get $1M is a decent gamble.
Still, I agree that her public sob story was inappropiate.



> How about someone like Courney who works as a waitress, she can't be making too much money


She works at the "The Coffee Shop" in NYC's Union Square which is a super popular eatary (it's more restaurant than coffee shop). She probably does pretty decent. Enough to be a happy go lucky NYC gal.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> The show was filmed during the summer when she was out of work at the school, anways. Although it could be argued why didn't she find summer employment instead of going on survivor. Although it could *then* be argued that disappearing for a couple trivial months in order to try and get $1M is a decent gamble.
> Still, I agree that her public sob story was inappropiate.
> 
> She works at the "The Coffee Shop" in NYC's Union Square which is a super popular eatary (it's more restaurant than coffee shop). She probably does pretty decent. Enough to be a happy go lucky NYC gal.


Yeah, I smeeked the thread a bit, not realizing that it was filmed during the summer, but, but still, as you said, if making that $7 an hour meant so much for the family, then risking that job, even for a chance at a million was innapropriate. As for Courtney, yeah, she's probably doing ok, but my point was, that someone like a waitress or even an "out of work" actor as has been seen on so many of these shows is probably in as dire straits as someone like Denise.

BTW - I'm totally against giving James the $100,000 as well. It's like being Miss Congeniality on a beauty pageant.

And another thing, if they are covering up sexy parts on the show, then why NOT have a colder weather Survivor? I thought the whole point of having a warm weather Survivor was the "skin" factor? Well they are taking that aspect away. I STILL say that there's no reason they couldn't have a Survivor in say Alaska, where in gets reasonably warm in the summer months (I was there in June and it's in the 60s and 70s during the day). I liked China because it was certainly different, but they they go back to ANOTHER tropical island in Micronesia. It's been done so many times already. Maybe they should just use Burnett's island in Panama and that is where EVERY Survivor is played.

I thought this was the 3rd best Survivor ever, after the first one and the Rupert/Johnny Fairplay season. I thought ALMOST everyone was actually playing the game and had a sound strategy for winning.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Anubys said:


> again, my regular complaint...the one who is getting voted off always gets the most air time...in the final ep, Todd got the most air time...once he wasn't voted out, it was clear that he therefore won the whole thing...totally ruins the watching experience...


You've managed to confuse me there...the one getting voted off gets the most air time...Todd got the most air time...therefore, he...won?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i still want a USA survivor...Alaska..hawaii, death valley...there has to be someplace suitable for this show in our homeland


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

hefe said:


> You've managed to confuse me there...the one getting voted off gets the most air time...Todd got the most air time...therefore, he...won?


mission accomplished! 

well, in a normal show, the one that gets the most airtime is going home...always...so when Todd got the most airtime and DID NOT go home, it was clear THEN that he's the winner...

in other words, they always kill the suspense with the way they edit the show...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I am against giving Denise $50,000 for her "sob story"


Bah humbug. Burnett and company make a whole lot of money from these people and their participation. If they want to throw a few more bucks their way, then fine. I have absolutely no problem with it. I'm glad he did it, and I'm glad I got to see it. Merry Christmas, Mullet Lady!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> Bah humbug. Burnett and company make a whole lot of money from these people and their participation. If they want to throw a few more bucks their way, then fine. I have absolutely no problem with it. I'm glad he did it, and I'm glad I got to see it. Merry Christmas, Mullet Lady!


How about Burnett throw a few bucks to an AIDs clinic or homeless shelter instead of someone with a sob story who's not starving I'm sure.


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## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

Sadara said:


> Though I have to say I cannot see much of a difference between a Lunch Lady and a Janitor, except that one is not around to see their family in the evening.


According to this article, it's an almost $10 / hour difference.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma.../18/survivor_tale_of_woe_contested_back_home/


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Back in the episode where the family members showed up, wasn't there a ConfessionCam with Denise concerned about them not giving her the $$$ because they found out she doesn't really need the money based on what her husband does for his job? I might have my contestants confused. Or I could be completely wrong.

Looking forward to complaining about Rob and Amber showing up for Fans vs. Favorites season...  Just speculation.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> Back in the episode where the family members showed up, wasn't there a ConfessionCam with Denise concerned about them not giving her the $$$ because they found out she doesn't really need the money based on what her husband does for his job? I might have my contestants confused. Or I could be completely wrong.


I thought her concern was that no one would want to take her to the finals because, at least in her mind, the sympathy vote would make her a shoo-in.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm just glad that juries are starting to realize that those who play the game the way it's supposed to be played are simply doing so because they're good at playing the game and not because they're flawed human beings with questionable morals. In the early seasons I was always so frustrated when the jury members would get up there and rant and rave about being lied to and being stabbed in the back. Now, it seems that for the most part, they're actually realizing that those actions are what got the people into the finals, and their inability to do so is why they're on the jury. The holier-than-thou stuff with regard to a game that basically required lying and strategy was always misplaced and I'm glad to see it gone.


I agree with you for the most part. You gotta hurt some feelings to win these games.

But for some reason, some people do it better than others. While season after season there's always a few snakes, some I actually like. Todd was not one of them.

What they need to do is get a cast made up entirely of jerks. No nice moms, no peace-makers. Just a bunch of jerks. They can call it "Survivor: Backstabber Island"


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

stalemate said:


> I thought her concern was that no one would want to take her to the finals because, at least in her mind, the sympathy vote would make her a shoo-in.


I must not have been paying close enough attention.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> How about Burnett throw a few bucks to an AIDs clinic or homeless shelter instead of someone with a sob story who's not starving I'm sure.


so what you're saying is that he should check with you first before he gives money to anyone?

should we make this a rule for everyone to make sure that it passes your standards?

sorry for the sarcasm, but it's been discussed...it's his money...he wanted to give to her...good for him...you have no idea what charities he gives to or how giving he is so judging him is a little presumptuous, don't you think?


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## IndyMark (Oct 18, 2002)

Anubys said:


> so what you're saying is that he should check with you first before he gives money to anyone?
> 
> should we make this a rule for everyone to make sure that it passes your standards?
> 
> sorry for the sarcasm, but it's been discussed...it's his money...he wanted to give to her...good for him...you have no idea what charities he gives to or how giving he is so judging him is a little presumptuous, don't you think?


Just watched the reunion last night and they said at the very end that the end-of-season auctions of Survivor "stuff" have now raised over 2 million dollars for the Elizabeth Glazer Pediatric AIDS Foundation. Not too shabby if you ask me.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> so what you're saying is that he should check with you first before he gives money to anyone?
> 
> should we make this a rule for everyone to make sure that it passes your standards?
> 
> sorry for the sarcasm, but it's been discussed...it's his money...he wanted to give to her...good for him...you have no idea what charities he gives to or how giving he is so judging him is a little presumptuous, don't you think?


On the other hand, I suspect Burnett is pretty embarrassed at falling for her BS if the stories turn out to be true (and they certainly seem to be)...

Perhaps this was a situation where he would have been better off looking before he leaped, although then he would have lost the PR value of announcing it during the show. But now he has to face the PR value of looking like an idiot. It's too bad Denise has probably ruined the chances of genuinely needy people benefiting in similar situations in the future.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

What was up with the white shirt around Amanda's waist during the last reward challenge? I don't ever remember seeing her wear anything like that before.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> so what you're saying is that he should check with you first before he gives money to anyone?
> 
> should we make this a rule for everyone to make sure that it passes your standards?
> 
> sorry for the sarcasm, but it's been discussed...it's his money...he wanted to give to her...good for him...you have no idea what charities he gives to or how giving he is so judging him is a little presumptuous, don't you think?


That's not the point. Sure, he can give his money to whoever he wants, but I think there's a lot more needy people out there than Denise, and I think she played that card into a $50,000 windfall. If I was one of those 16 Survivors, I'd be saying, where's mine? I could make up some story that I'm in financial straits and I need the money too. Just because she sobbed on TV about her life, doesn't make her more worthy of $50,000 than anyone else. The whole thing was a publicity stunt if you ask me.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, I suspect Burnett is pretty embarrassed at falling for her BS if the stories turn out to be true (and they certainly seem to be)...
> 
> Perhaps this was a situation where he would have been better off looking before he leaped, although then he would have lost the PR value of announcing it during the show. But now he has to face the PR value of looking like an idiot. It's too bad Denise has probably ruined the chances of genuinely needy people benefiting in similar situations in the future.


Couldn't have said it better myself. There's no reason that he couldn't have done this, on say, the Morning Show the next morning, after checking out her financial situation.


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## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> My 2 cents:
> 
> I am against giving Denise $50,000 for her "sob story", especially on the air. Is her husband out of work or something? Maybe there's more to her back story, but, the feeling is, if she can afford to give up 2 months of working to be on Survivor with realistically slim shot of winning (and her family getting only ONE income during that time) then I don't believe she's as bad off as they make her sound. I know it sounds callous, but it DOES seem like welfare. How about someone like Courney who works as a waitress, she can't be making too much money, and I'm sure a couple of the others have less than high paying jobs.


Agre 100%. Even if Burnett did want to do something for her, how about some job training/counseling? Scholarship? Have Jeff tell her she can do anything she puts her mind to? Better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, I suspect Burnett is pretty embarrassed at falling for her BS if the stories turn out to be true (and they certainly seem to be)...
> 
> Perhaps this was a situation where he would have been better off looking before he leaped, although then he would have lost the PR value of announcing it during the show. But now he has to face the PR value of looking like an idiot. It's too bad Denise has probably ruined the chances of genuinely needy people benefiting in similar situations in the future.


It's easy to back down. Just say you were duped. People trying to do good who are duped are rarely criticized or called idiots, especially in a case like this where it *appeared* he was doing the right thang. But the PR of doing it during the finale show outweighed any desire to validate the situation. I woulda done the same thing.



Steveknj said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. There's no reason that he couldn't have done this, on say, the Morning Show the next morning, after checking out her financial situation.


Since it's mostly about the ratings & PR windfall (although I'm sure a *little* benevolence entered the decision), there are 100 times more people watching the finale as versus the Morning Show.

As an aside, the Guide Data for the Morning Show,* it did not mention the Survivor winner at all*. I recorded it on blind faith.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NinerK said:


> Agre 100%. Even if Burnett did want to do something for her, how about some job training/counseling? Scholarship? Have Jeff tell her she can do anything she puts her mind to? Better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish.


Yes! I consider myself liberal, but there's something about Denise that I don't find genuine (maybe it's the Boston accent! I'm a New Yorker, j/k), but I think she was using her family "plight" as a strategy, and I think she mentioned the stuff about her changing jobs as either:

1) A way to get her old job back since she hates her new gig
2) Have someone hear about this and give her a better job, or to be even more cynical, get her on the talk show circuit.


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## deaklet (Feb 15, 2003)

First of all, Denise didn't sob. She was very matter-of-fact about the situation during the reunion show. What motivation would she have to make that stuff up? There's certainly no precedent for anyone getting cash from the producer. I tend to believe her.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Since it's mostly about the ratings & PR windfall (although I'm sure a *little* benevolence entered the decision), there are 100 times more people watching the finale as versus the Morning Show.
> 
> As an aside, the Guide Data for the Morning Show,* it did not mention the Survivor winner at all*. I recorded it on blind faith.


Which is essentiall ALL this was, PR. Get a buzz going, have people talk Survivor again, as it's ratings are not as good as it once was. And with the strike, it COULD be a bonanza for ratings with little competition in it's timeslot (unless AI will be on opposite it).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

deaklet said:


> First of all, Denise didn't sob. She was very matter-of-fact about the situation during the reunion show. What motivation would she have to make that stuff up? There's certainly no precedent for anyone getting cash from the producer. I tend to believe her.


Sob as in Sob Story, not literally sob. What motivation does she have to make it up? See what I said before.....could lead to a new job, could lead to a bit of "celebrity" and the windfall that comes with that. There was no reason she NEEDED to bring it up at all.


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## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Sob as in Sob Story, not literally sob. What motivation does she have to make it up? See what I said before.....could lead to a new job, could lead to a bit of "celebrity" and the windfall that comes with that. There was no reason she NEEDED to bring it up at all.


Again, I agree with you Stevenknj. I was annoyed with the pity party she had while talking to Amanda in China but I could empathize with her because she was in the moment.

I believe she was sincere in her comments on the reunion show about missing evenings her family but I was hoping she would have gained a little more perspective being back home. Too bad she threw another pity party on the reunion show. I think people like myself were already empathizing with her and all she had to say was "I'm now a janitor" and left it at that.

No need to explain how you have to clean toilets and everything like she's the only one who has ever had to take a janitor job and didn't like it. Seriously, is being a janitor BENEATH her? My Grandpappy was a Janitor and he took my Grandma to Hawaii every year.  All about perspective.

Random Movie Quote Relating to Janitors:

"I am the eyes and ears of this institution my friends."

ETA: Truth be told, my Grandpappy was a "Master of the Custodial Arts"


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> How about Burnett throw a few bucks to an AIDs clinic or homeless shelter instead of someone with a sob story who's not starving I'm sure.


Sure. I have no problem with that either. I don't pretend to know what he does with all his money. And I don't begrudge him doing whatever he wants with it.

BTW, the auctions they run after every Survivor series has raised over 2 million dollars for the Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

kettledrum said:


> What was up with the white shirt around Amanda's waist during the last reward challenge? I don't ever remember seeing her wear anything like that before.


It was a white sash. Each person had one that was the color of their puzzle in the challenge. Todd's was yellow, he wore it around his head. Denise and Courtney were red and black, and they also wore theirs around their waists.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

loubob57 said:


> I think the sweat dripping was for dramatic effect and didn't really play into the outcome of the challenge.


As someone who suffers from this, I can tell you that dripping sweat can totally change the outcome of the challenge, or any other challenge.

Did any one else think that Denise's husband didn't look as excited to win the extra bux? He was pretty matter of fact about it.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

newsposter said:


> i still want a USA survivor...Alaska..hawaii, death valley...there has to be someplace suitable for this show in our homeland


The problem with doing it on American soil is there are no areas that are remote enough. You would have helicopters and press trying to see what is happening and trying to scoop CBS and Burnett. They would lose control over the product.

Going to remote islands and working with foreign governments guarentees him the privacy he needs for 2-3 months of preproduction and production.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

dbranco said:


> According to this article, it's an almost $10 / hour difference.
> 
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma.../18/survivor_tale_of_woe_contested_back_home/


The best part of the story was the last two sentences.

'Lane spent much of her day on the phone with a lawyer for CBS, but was given little solace.

"They did explain to me today that reality doesn't necessarily mean factual," she said.'

Truer words have never been spoken.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

deaklet said:


> First of all, Denise didn't sob. She was very matter-of-fact about the situation during the reunion show. What motivation would she have to make that stuff up?


Who knows? But it certainly seems that she not only made it up, but made what seems like a big positive into a negative (she's making more than TWICE the money in her new job!).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MegaHertz67 said:


> The problem with doing it on American soil is there are no areas that are remote enough. You would have helicopters and press trying to see what is happening and trying to scoop CBS and Burnett. They would lose control over the product.
> 
> Going to remote islands and working with foreign governments guarentees him the privacy he needs for 2-3 months of preproduction and production.


I don't know if you've been to Alaska, but there are some PRETTY remote sites up there. With that said, I can see your point, but I think they could arrange to have the press kept away. And there's not just Alaska if you want remote, tundra like climate, the Andes, Canada, Russia, even say Scandanavia (imagine Survivor: Viking Quest or something like that).


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Who knows? But it certainly seems that she not only made it up, but made what seems like a big positive into a negative (she's making more than TWICE the money in her new job!).


I believe Jeff brought up the whole "homecoming" issue with Denise (that does not say she told it to Jeff and/or production staff prior to get that pity part.)

As far as the big positive into a negative money isn't everything. I think she was sincere when she was saying she has less time to spend with her family. The extra money is great but then you have to factor that against working late afternoons/evenings and missing out on the family. I have worked 5 PM - 1 AM and sure the job was great, loved the people, etc. you miss a lot when everyone else is on an 8-5 schedule. It would be nice to have a happy medium for Denise of normal hours without such a low pay of $7/hr.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Survivor: The Donner Party


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> I think they could arrange to have the press kept away.


I don't. How many secret celeb weddings have we seen? Even after filming some seasons of Survivor there are pictures of the camps and TC before the air shows as I believe sometimes CBS just leaves those structures there. Security is already an issue at random locales across the globe, just think of how hard it would be to keep things secure if the locations are just a quick plane ride away (or possibly a phone call to a local news affiliate and a short drive). I think the distance things plays a factor as your lead and information needs to be dang good or else you are putting out a significant (not too much though) amount of money to go exploring in say China.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Einselen said:


> As far as the big positive into a negative money isn't everything. I think she was sincere when she was saying she has less time to spend with her family. The extra money is great but then you have to factor that against working late afternoons/evenings and missing out on the family. I have worked 5 PM - 1 AM and sure the job was great, loved the people, etc. you miss a lot when everyone else is on an 8-5 schedule. It would be nice to have a happy medium for Denise of normal hours without such a low pay of $7/hr.


It would be interesting to find out if she asked for her old job back. We know she lied about being demoted because of Survivor (actually, she was PROmoted before the try-outs even took place).

I can't tell if she's stupid enough to believe that she could tell a series of whoppers like that on national television and get away with it, or just so stupid that her confused account of what happened ended up diverging so wildly from reality that she just SEEMED like a big fat liar. But I'm pretty sure that "stupid" factors into it somehow...


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Denise sucks.

I hope Burnett renegs on his offer and I hope she gets fired.

I didn't like her on the show, and I dislike her even more in real life.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It would be interesting to find out if she asked for her old job back. We know she lied about being demoted because of Survivor (actually, she was PROmoted before the try-outs even took place).


Maybe to her being a lunch lady has a better status than janitor.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22314294/

Looks like Denise was not forthright, or at least only telling PART of the story. I still believe she used the Reunion show as a way to force them to give her the old job back.


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## pudding7 (May 13, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> What they need to do is get a cast made up entirely of jerks. No nice moms, no peace-makers. Just a bunch of jerks. They can call it "Survivor: Backstabber Island"


I think they need to do just the opposite. Get a bunch of super nice, funny, well-adjusted people with good people skills. No whacko's, geeks, freaks, jackasses, etc. Just normal, middle of the road, nice people.

THEN watch them have to lie and backstab and break promises. I like Survivor for the game and the strategy, not jackass personality stereotypes.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

The way I read it, after some of the articles and extra information...

She was moved to the janitor job before going on Survivor. When she came back, she wanted her Lunch Lady day-shift job back. They didn't give it to her because it wasn't available anymore. She is having trouble with being on the off-shift, missing time with her family, and not doing a job that she realizes now that she likes better than being a janitor. She brought it up to get some sympathy, sure, and beyond that, to ask on national TV if anyone needed a day-shift lunch lady. I don't think she ever had an expectation of being given money, but I think she did use the opportunity to make a play for someone to offer her a better job.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22314294/
> 
> Looks like Denise was not forthright, or at least only telling PART of the story. I still believe she used the Reunion show as a way to force them to give her the old job back.


Based on some of the things posted here, it sounds like they'd be happy to give her her old job back, but she'd probably have to take the requisite pay cut as well. The janitor job pays more than twice what the lunch lady job paid.


----------



## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Einselen said:


> I believe Jeff brought up the whole "homecoming" issue with Denise (that does not say she told it to Jeff and/or production staff prior to get that pity part.)
> 
> As far as the big positive into a negative money isn't everything. I think she was sincere when she was saying she has less time to spend with her family. The extra money is great but then you have to factor that against working late afternoons/evenings and missing out on the family. I have worked 5 PM - 1 AM and sure the job was great, loved the people, etc. you miss a lot when everyone else is on an 8-5 schedule. It would be nice to have a happy medium for Denise of normal hours without such a low pay of $7/hr.


Maybe you missed the part in the article stating that she was offered and accepted the promotion to janitor before she even applied for Survivor.


----------



## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

She's a liar. Her husband knew she was lying. That's why you saw him in the audience looking quite uncomfortable during her lie and subsequent payday.

I hope the school district finds some way to fire her.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

there's the holiday spirit!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

montag said:


> She's a liar. Her husband knew she was lying. That's why you saw him in the audience looking quite uncomfortable during her lie and subsequent payday.
> 
> I hope the school district finds some way to fire her.


She forgot, she's not playing Survivor anymore!!!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Denise's school district has posted a press release on their home page: http://www.douglas.k12.ma.us/


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22314294/
> 
> Looks like Denise was not forthright, or at least only telling PART of the story. I still believe she used the Reunion show as a way to force them to give her the old job back.


Here's another article about it...

http://tv.popcrunch.com/survivor-china-lunch-lady-denise-martin-on-the-early-show/


----------



## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> there's the holiday spirit!


Was that directed at me?

Did you read what that school district, administration, teachers, students, parents had done for her? They were her biggest fans. She got an amazing promotion and then applied for Survivor they gave her the leave and kept her job for her when she returned. What did she so? In their words, she slapped them in the face.

Yeah, firing would be appropriate.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

montag said:


> Was that directed at me?


Yup.

All you say is true but there is nothing wrong with forgiveness either.

Personally I think she have a real hard time going back to work after that. That unconfortable feeling will be enough punishment.


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

If she was promoted to janitor before the tryouts for Survivor, then why did they always label her as "Lunch Lady?" She must have told them that even though she was a janitor. Very odd. The whole time she was on the show she referred it, especially during the "$7 an hour" speech. Sounds like she was living a fantasy.

tk


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pendragn said:


> If she was promoted to janitor before the tryouts for Survivor, then why did they always label her as "Lunch Lady?" She must have told them that even though she was a janitor. Very odd. The whole time she was on the show she referred it, especially during the "$7 an hour" speech. Sounds like she was living a fantasy.
> 
> tk


It's not at all uncommon for the producers to use a "label" that is not the most accurate. They'll usually just choose the most interesting description, even if it's not the most current.


----------



## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Well, I sure have lost a lot of respect for Denise. What a cheap, manipulative trick. :down:


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

pendragn said:


> IThe whole time she was on the show she referred it, especially during the "$7 an hour" speech. Sounds like she was living a fantasy.
> 
> tk


Sounds to me like she had somewhat manufactured a role for herself to play on the show. Not a bad idea at all, really.

The role should have been dropped once the show was over.


----------



## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Wow..........she certainly put her foot in her mouth!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> It's not at all uncommon for the producers to use a "label" that is not the most accurate. They'll usually just choose the most interesting description, even if it's not the most current.


Half the Big Brother contestants are out of work actors, but they NEVER lable them as such


----------



## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

MegaHertz67 said:


> The problem with doing it on American soil is there are no areas that are remote enough. You would have helicopters and press trying to see what is happening and trying to scoop CBS and Burnett. They would lose control over the product.
> 
> Going to remote islands and working with foreign governments guarentees him the privacy he needs for 2-3 months of preproduction and production.


They should have it wherever Steve Fossett crashed. That should be remote enough.


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

The Flush said:


> They should have it wherever Steve Fossett crashed. That should be remote enough.


CBS looked into it but couldn't find the site.


----------



## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

The Flush said:


> They should have it wherever Steve Fossett crashed. That should be remote enough.


No, what we need is Survivor: Area 51


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

MegaHertz67 said:


> The problem with doing it on American soil is there are no areas that are remote enough. You would have helicopters and press trying to see what is happening and trying to scoop CBS and Burnett. They would lose control over the product.
> 
> Going to remote islands and working with foreign governments guarentees him the privacy he needs for 2-3 months of preproduction and production.


I often wondered if had anything to do with changing a game show while it was underway. I know game shows have specific rules about what they can and cannot change about the game. I've always wondered how Survivor got around that. Maybe not being filmed in the US helped them get around that. Maybe being labeled a "reality" show helps too. Just kind of thinking out loud here.

tk


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Final tribal councils always irritate me because all the jury members become holier-than-thou about the way the game was played. . . so I was pleasantly surprised this year when really only Jaime lost her cool (and PG slightly). But Todd knocked it out of the park - Amanda really disappointed me - and Courtney surprised me. My voting order would have been Todd, Courtney, and Amanda. 

And I totally agree that the top 4 of looked better on the island. Amanda? Yuck. Todd? Yuck. Courtney? Meh - looks better with some weight on her but the hair and makeup? Yuck. And I guess Denise stayed the same, lol.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Einselen said:


> I believe Jeff brought up the whole "homecoming" issue with Denise (that does not say she told it to Jeff and/or production staff prior to get that pity part.)
> 
> As far as the big positive into a negative money isn't everything. I think she was sincere when she was saying she has less time to spend with her family. The extra money is great but then you have to factor that against working late afternoons/evenings and missing out on the family. I have worked 5 PM - 1 AM and sure the job was great, loved the people, etc. you miss a lot when everyone else is on an 8-5 schedule. It would be nice to have a happy medium for Denise of normal hours without such a low pay of $7/hr.


I work for the electric company, 60 to 72 hours a week. Work all kinds of shifts, work holidays. She decided to take the job that paid more, just like I did. As JFK said, life isn't fair.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Yup.
> 
> All you say is true but there is nothing wrong with forgiveness either.
> 
> Personally I think she have a real hard time going back to work after that. That unconfortable feeling will be enough punishment.


In my industry, if you get caught lying, your get fired.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

brianric said:


> In my industry, if you get caught lying, your get fired.


I think in this case, though, the school district has won the PR war...Denise is a liar and was caught...if they fire her now, they go back to being the jerks...I think the best course of action is for them to let it go...


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

The question becomes which was the more uh... dishonest... Denise or Johnny Fairplay?


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Not sure, but Johnny Fairplay was WAY more irritating overall, then and since.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

brianric said:


> In my industry, if you get caught lying, your get fired.


I assume you work with some valuable secrets 

She's a janitorial lunch room wannabe - give me a break.

I remember a few years back at a Board meeting when the Chairman made a comment that if he fired every officer who had lied to him, his ranks would be pretty depleted. He used the example of calling in sick when you are not really sick - and perhaps go golfing


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

jenhudson said:


> Not sure, but Johnny Fairplay was WAY more irritating overall, then and since.


exponentially more so


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> She's a janitorial lunch room wannabe - give me a break.


She's a janitorial lunch room wannabe who told embarrassing lies about her employer on national television. I'd say firing would be an entirely reasonable response.


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I don't know if you've been to Alaska, but there are some PRETTY remote sites up there. With that said, I can see your point, but I think they could arrange to have the press kept away. And there's not just Alaska if you want remote, tundra like climate, the Andes, Canada, Russia, even say Scandanavia (imagine Survivor: Viking Quest or something like that).


This subject is brought up almost after every season. They don't want cold climate because of the eye-candy (ie, bikinis) and people tend to be more active in hot climate.


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

I never saw Johhny Fairplay on Survivor but I'd heard about him. Over the summer there was a show called Ty Murray's Celebrity Bullriding Challenge. My girlfriend and I saw a preview for it and had to watch it due to the ridiculousness of it. Turns out it was a really good show. Had guys like Nitro from American Gladiators, Vanilla Ice, Jonny Fairplay, Stephen Baldwin, Josh Haynes (UFC fighter), Rocket Ismail, actor Francisco Quinn, motocross rider Kenny Bartram, and a brief appearance by Leif Garrett.

All of the guys were just themselves. No egos or scripted crap. Pretty much all came off as nice genuine guys. At the start of the show everyone thought Fairplay was going to be an annoying piece of work. He ended up being everyone's favorite. He was incredibly charming, affable, and funny. Not at all what anyone was expecting.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I have read on The Sports Guy column that Johnny Fairplay was on Big Brother and that he left "a present" on someone's bed (aka a number 2) which got him booted off the show...

this was all done in code since ESPN does not allow this sort of talk on their site...so I may be wrong in my interpretation (and I did not watch the show)...


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I have read on The Sports Guy column that Johnny Fairplay was on Big Brother and that he left "a present" on someone's bed (aka a number 2) which got him booted off the show...
> 
> this was all done in code since ESPN does not allow this sort of talk on their site...so I may be wrong in my interpretation (and I did not watch the show)...


He was never on Big Brother.

According to Wiki...


> In 2005, Dalton appeared in the reality television program, Kill Reality, which follows various reality television personalities as they film a horror movie. Dalton turned out to be the "star" of the show as it detailed his outrageous antics which culminated in him defecating on another cast member's bed and getting kicked out of house. The horror film, The Scorned, aired on E! in October 2005 and was subsequently released as a DVD with extra nudity and violence. During the television show, Dalton revealed having a past relationship with Tonya Cooley and a friendship with Trishelle Cannatella, both of Real World fame.


----------



## jhausmann (Aug 21, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I think in this case, though, the school district has won the PR war...Denise is a liar and was caught...if they fire her now, they go back to being the jerks...I think the best course of action is for them to let it go...


Prolly what will happen is that she'll be let go in the course of another honesty issue...


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

The issue at hand with Johnny is that as long as any camera is pointed at him, he thinks he's a heel wrestler. He's basically trying to be Classy Freddie Blassy.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dtle said:


> This subject is brought up almost after every season. They don't want cold climate because of the eye-candy (ie, bikinis) and people tend to be more active in hot climate.


ice fishing isnt an active sport? 

for your first reward you get this blade to help you cut thru the ice...2nd reward..hooks for the fish...3rd reward is a seat! ....4th..a parka...5th....ice for your drink


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I think in this case, though, the school district has won the PR war...Denise is a liar and was caught...if they fire her now, they go back to being the jerks...I think the best course of action is for them to let it go...


You really think the number of people who now know about her lie is anywhere close to the number of people who heard her tell it and still think it's true? I'd bet that well over half of the viewers of the reunion show still (and never will) have any idea that she lied about it.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I've never been one to find any fault in someone "lying" during the course of this game and saying they've lost their integrity or honor or whatever. In fact, that drives me pretty crazy - IT'S A GAME. But what Denise did was completely outside the game. The people she lied about were not participants in the game. I was trying to think how maybe she felt like she had trapped herself in a lie and had to lie to cover it, but that wasn't the case at all. She just made up the part about it being a demotion, and made up the part about it happening after she got back, which obviously means she made up the part about it being BECAUSE of being a contestant on Survivor.

If she had worked the sob story to her advantage and manipulated the jury into voting for her, that would be one thing. She could tell the truth later about the real-life people she lied about. But she manipulated Burnett into giving her a significant amount of money and disparaged the reputations of people who didn't deserve it. Granted, it was completely voluntary on his part, but how is that any different from being defrauded by a con artist?


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Does anyone have (or can get) a direct transcript of what was said on the reunion show. A lot pf people have said Denise said it was a demotion, but I wonder what her exact words were.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Einselen said:


> Does anyone have (or can get) a direct transcript of what was said on the reunion show. A lot pf people have said Denise said it was a demotion, but I wonder what her exact words were.


From the reunion show:


> I went back, and I talked to the Food Service Director, and they didn't give me my job back. So I ended up having to go... I'm a janitor now. I clean the toilets, I wash the floors in the bathrooms, I vacuum the kids' rugs. I miss dinner with my family. I haven't been to a field hockey game yet. I'm missing out on a lot more than I'd originally planned on doing."
> <...>
> "The original reason was they said that it would be too distracting...the kids all come in and everybody in the school comes up to me and everybody's like 'hey how you doin'...all the 3rd graders, they walk by me in the afternoon, they're like 'hey Denise, hi Denise, hi Denise...' 125 of them walk by, and every one of them says hi to me. So, I mean, I still... it's emotional, I mean, I miss my job...if anybody out there's looking for a lunch lady, day-shift, give me a call.


No mention of a 'demotion,' or even money for that matter. Just that she wasn't happy with the job because of the hours and the fact that she liked being the lunch lady.

On an interview the next day,



> She appeared with her boss, school superintendent Nancy Lane, who challenged Denise's story in a statement on Monday. Today, she said that Denise has been a janitor since March 30, having applied for that position last January. Denise admitted that was true, but said, "When I was on Survivor, I wanted to go to back to my original lunch lady job, and I did everything I could. I tried to talk to the food service director &#8230; and tried to go back to my original job. &#8230; I loved that job, it was one of the most favorite parts of my life. &#8230; When I was away from my family so long, I just wanted to go back to the way things were before I was on the night shift."
> 
> Denise said when she asked for her lower-paying lunch lady job back, "I was told that I could not have my old job back. They didn't give me any particular reason, they just said no." But Lane said that "Denise has not had a conversation with either [her or the other executive in charge of personnel decisions]. Yesterday was the first I had heard that she'd expressed an interest. But she can't return to a position that's not available, and that position isn't available; there's no opening there."


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Einselen said:


> Does anyone have (or can get) a direct transcript of what was said on the reunion show. A lot pf people have said Denise said it was a demotion, but I wonder what her exact words were.


Go to youtube and search for "survivor china reunion". There's a 37 minute video of the whole thing, plus smaller videos of individual players.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> Go to youtube and search for "survivor china reunion". There's a 37 minute video of the whole thing, plus smaller videos of individual players.


Or just read the post right above yours.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> From the reunion show:
> 
> No mention of a 'demotion,' or even money for that matter. Just that she wasn't happy with the job because of the hours and the fact that she liked being the lunch lady.
> 
> On an interview the next day,


I suppose it's possible (but highly unlikely) that she just worded things poorly during the reunion show and it sounded like it was a "demotion". Reminds me a lot of Roger Clemens denying he took steroids.

I STILL would like to know if her family really is in financial trouble, enough to warrent charity from Burnett like that. For all we know, they are like most working class families, making enough to get by, but not a charity case.


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

jenhudson said:


> Not sure, but Johnny Fairplay was WAY more irritating overall, then and since.


I've seen nothing from him since the reunion show. I suppose I'm out of touch.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> I've seen nothing from him since the reunion show. I suppose I'm out of touch.


He was on Judge Mathis as a tool..err character witness.


----------



## jhausmann (Aug 21, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> I've seen nothing from him since the reunion show. I suppose I'm out of touch.


You missed Bonaduce body slamming JF to the ground? Get to the link


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

He also peddled his usual douchebaggery on _Celebrity Poker Showdown_ one episode.

Don't get me wrong. I *loved* watching Johnny Fairplay on _Survivor_. I just think that when you're not on the show, you can be John Dalton again.


----------



## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

Denise won't be taking the $50k after all...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j0SlvFFqX-gCNSIFG7uySinuLLAgD8TKLRA80


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Now the article is saying she is donating the money to the EG Pediatric AIDS Foundation. Really? Did Barnett actually give her the money? Later in the article it says she is asking that it be given to the Foundation.

Seems to me it's still Barnett's money to do with as he pleases. He isn't giving it to her, so he could just as easily keep it as donate it and she wouldn't have any say in it.

Good for her for turning it down, but don't make it seem benevolent now by trying to turn it into a donation to a good cause. And she sure as heck better not take it as a tax deduction!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Good for her.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Regardless of whether she said "demotion" she was deceptive. She mentioned wanting to go back to her "original" job (I guess technically, that could be true) without mentioning that she had accepted a new job _before_ she left for Survivor. Without mentioning that, the only conclusion people could possibly reach is that she had been assigned to a new position that she didn't really want. And she was completely misleading about it all happening after she got back. She also left out the part - if it is accurate - about the 142% raise she received. Perhaps the only grain of truth is that she had regrets about the new job because of the hours. No matter how much you parse words, the rest is a lie.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I STILL would like to know if her family really is in financial trouble, enough to warrent charity from Burnett like that. For all we know, they are like most working class families, making enough to get by, but not a charity case.


For all we know her husband makes 300k a year.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> Now the article is saying she is donating the money to the EG Pediatric AIDS Foundation. Really? Did Barnett actually give her the money? Later in the article it says she is asking that it be given to the Foundation.
> 
> Seems to me it's still Barnett's money to do with as he pleases. He isn't giving it to her, so he could just as easily keep it as donate it and she wouldn't have any say in it.
> 
> Good for her for turning it down, but don't make it seem benevolent now by trying to turn it into a donation to a good cause. And she sure as heck better not take it as a tax deduction!


He could keep it, but if he was worried about looking like a meanie by not paying her off for her sob story when everyone thought it was true, I doubt that he's going to go ahead and just keep the money now.

And yeah, my guess it that he hadn't gotten around to writing the check before all this came out.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I tried to see if I could track down any info on what her husband does for a living but came up empty.

I did see this blog though, 
http://talesfromtheclan.blogspot.com/2007/12/denise-martin.html

soliciting donations to help them out. Even has their home address. What is funny is that people who emailed the school district to complain got a copy of the press release sent back to them by the school district. Thumbs up to them.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

marksman said:


> For all we know her husband makes 300k a year.


Well unless he's socking an inordinate amount of it away, my guess is we'd have seen pictures of their McMansion by now.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

marksman said:


> For all we know her husband makes 300k a year.


And is forcing his wife to work as a janitor.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Kablemodem said:


> And is forcing his wife to work as a janitor.


While I doubt hubby makes 300k a year, it's possible, like many of us that they are a two income family who's not poor, but needs the 2 incomes to make it. No shame in that, but that doesn't make them destitue like it sounded. I think people kind of lost sight of the fact that she's married and that her hubby is probably working too. The impression that was left was that she's the sole source of income.

I think, Burnett comes off looking kind of bad here. It seems that he either:

1) Just donated the money without thinking (since it looked like it was a snap decision based on what Jeff said)
2) Did this for a publicity stunt, which now, in hindsight, got the publicity, but BAD publicity. Yeah, I know, no publicity is BAD publicity, but still...

He has no choice but to donate the money.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I assume you work with some valuable secrets


Nuclear power.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Well now that you guys mention it, I took the address put it in Zillow and the Zestimate says it is a 364k, 2749 4 bedroom 2 bath house.

I realize that Zillow is not always accurate, but it is a decent size house. Clearly they were not paying the mortgage on her Lunch Lady Salary.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

marksman said:


> I tried to see if I could track down any info on what her husband does for a living but came up empty.
> 
> I did see this blog though,
> http://talesfromtheclan.blogspot.com/2007/12/denise-martin.html
> ...


There's an interesting link within the blog comments:

http://www.egossip.com/tv/survivor-scandal-denise-martin-and-superintendent-face-tv-4150


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

marksman said:


> Well now that you guys mention it, I took the address put it in Zillow and the Zestimate says it is a 364k, 2749 4 bedroom 2 bath house.
> 
> I realize that Zillow is not always accurate, but it is a decent size house. Clearly they were not paying the mortgage on her Lunch Lady Salary.


Boo Zillow!:down:

Sincerely,
NinerK
Appraiser at large


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

marksman said:


> Well now that you guys mention it, I took the address put it in Zillow and the Zestimate says it is a 364k, 2749 4 bedroom 2 bath house.
> 
> I realize that Zillow is not always accurate, but it is a decent size house. Clearly they were not paying the mortgage on her Lunch Lady Salary.


It would have to be really far off for her self-depiction as someone who needed to "get her life back in order" (or whatever the phrase was) to be remotely accurate. I mean, there was no suggestion that she was making less money, so the only thing the money would have been used for would be to quit the job until she found a new one that gave her better hours, which she really never hinted that she was planning to do. I just don't see how there's not more to this story in terms of Burnett having thought this through ahead of time. I'm not convinced that this was just a snap decision based on hearing her sob story for the first time during the show. Clearly, when Jeff asked her about it he knew the story already.


----------



## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

Back to the show for a moment...

The commercial for the final episode promised "3 Tribal Councils". So I did some quick calculations, and decided that they would have a 2-person final TC this year, just to mix things up.

Then at the 4-to-3 TC, Jeff starts asking weird questions like, "Has the final TC already begun?" I expected some weird twist.

But no, there were only 2 TCs. I just went back and watched the commercial, and it says there right on the screen, "3 Tribal Councils".

They can't seriously thing that the reading of the votes counts as a second TC, can they?


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

apparently they do - since that's all we got...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I wondered that myself, but was happy that it was a final 3 rather than final 2, so I had no complaints.


----------



## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

Todd was a sneaky liar, but he was likable and nice about it throughout. Furthermore, when being nice, he was genuine. I think that's why the people on the Jury respected his play and voted for him. Also, nearly all of them hated Jon-Robert, so seeing Todd obviously play him with flattery I'm sure earned him some points. And of course flattering Jon-Robert won him JR's vote. 

I think he's one of the few people we've seen who has actually controlled and manipulated people with a subtle hand rather than claiming to control things, while actually just bullying or irritating people. JR's "strategy" for example was idiotic, and he still claims to be proud of how he played the game. (But that's also the standard line of any of these ego-maniacal poker players I've seen - they pat themselves on the back for losing because they did the "right" thing)

Denise put too much on the "trust", or "friend" factors. She never gave them a compelling reason to keep her, just begged to be kept because of prior promises. 

Amanda lost herself a million bucks by not trying to get Todd off when they were at 4. I think she'd have gotten Todd's vote if she managed to orchestrate him leaving.


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## Penny Lane (Dec 3, 2007)

After watching the show since it started I have totally turned around my way of thinking as far as who the winners should be. Everyone knows this is a GAME. If you can lie, cheat, mislead, etc. and still be standing in the final 2 or 3 then you deserve to win, not the nice person, not the poor person but the person that managed to be deceptive and still not get voted off.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Penny Lane said:


> After watching the show since it started I have totally turned around my way of thinking as far as who the winners should be. Everyone knows this is a GAME. If you can lie, cheat, mislead, etc. and still be standing in the final 2 or 3 then you deserve to win, not the nice person, not the poor person but the person that managed to be deceptive and still not get voted off.


Well, I for one agree (to an extent) but apparently not everyone knows that. You still hear people both on and off the show talking about honor and integrity and all that for what someone does as part of playing a game.

Still, I don't think there's anything wrong with a juror who was deceived by one of the finalists to hold it against them in their voting decision. There has to be some possible downside to blindsiding someone in your alliance, it just makes the strategy more complex. Of course, there are usually many factors to consider and my respect for the move someone made, even if I was the victim, might balance out my desire to hold it against them anyway.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TreborPugly said:


> I think he's one of the few people we've seen who has actually controlled and manipulated people with a subtle hand rather than claiming to control things, while actually just bullying or irritating people. JR's "strategy" for example was idiotic, and he still claims to be proud of how he played the game. *(But that's also the standard line of any of these ego-maniacal poker players I've seen - they pat themselves on the back for losing because they did the "right" thing)*


In defense of poker players, they are doing the "right" thing. Poker is a game of numbers. You do the right thing every time, you're not going to win every time, but you'll win more often than you lose. However, there is such thing as a "bad beat," where a lesser hand gets the card they need at the last second. That's why poker players, especially the seasoned professionals, are able to shrug off a loss and console themselves that they did the "right" thing. They know that they're not going to win every tournament, but the more often they can discern what the "right" move is, and do it, the better they're going to do overall.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think everyone forgets that there are seven different reasons to win: each of the jury votes. You have to know who is on the jury, and try to give at least the majority of them a reason to vote for you. Seven people on the jury, seven different reasons. Some might respect sneakiness, others abhor it. Some want personal relationships, others not so much. The neat thing about Survivor is that every jury is different, which makes a different kind of winner.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

I knew that story she told was a lie the second she told it. Working as a lunch lady is about the lowest paying job in a school. Working as a custodian is a big promotion. Yes, you typically start out on nights but you can work into days pretty quickly. That story she told about the kids being distracted by her made me LOL, and I paused the show and told my family she was lying. She is also in a union and they aren't going to let her go on a show and then fire her when she gets back. The union wouldn't allow that. They can tell her she can't go in the first place, or that they won't hold her job, but if they say they are going to hold her job and don't, then she has a grievance.

I work in a school, and the kids aren't going to be distracted by her for very long. Maybe one day, for the kids who saw the show, which isn't many at that age. She works in an elementary school and kids get over stuff like that quick, especially her example - 3rd graders. One assembly where she got to answer questions would have been enough to stop the distraction. Although, I don't really believe that was an issue. Kids that age are not as excited about people being on TV as older kids.

She's stupid. She may not be fired for making her school district and her bosses look like idiots to the nation, but I'm guessing she ruined her chances for promotion and going on dayshift (which is usually the head custodian position).

I am guessing Mark Burnett called her and said he was going to donate the money to the charity he supports, and said that she needs to follow along to fix her reputation. And, being who she is, she did it.

I thought she was stupid but nice on the show. Now I just think she's stupid.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

marksman said:


> I tried to see if I could track down any info on what her husband does for a living but came up empty.
> 
> I did see this blog though,
> http://talesfromtheclan.blogspot.com/2007/12/denise-martin.html
> ...


Gone already!

Here's the cached page: http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...2/denise-martin.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> In defense of poker players, they are doing the "right" thing. Poker is a game of numbers. You do the right thing every time, you're not going to win every time, but you'll win more often than you lose. However, there is such thing as a "bad beat," where a lesser hand gets the card they need at the last second. That's why poker players, especially the seasoned professionals, are able to shrug off a loss and console themselves that they did the "right" thing. They know that they're not going to win every tournament, but the more often they can discern what the "right" move is, and do it, the better they're going to do overall.


I know that, but the ego guys always make a point of claiming that they played their best game. (JR, or Helmuth for example) It doesn't only come down to the last hand - if they got beat, even with a bad beat, they should give credit to the person or people who outlasted them, rather than going on about how good their own play was.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

justapixel said:


> I thought she was stupid but nice on the show. Now I just think she's stupid.


I pretty much go along with anything a person does to win at Survivor, but Denise went too far on the Reunion show. You're right, Denise is stupid for lying on TV and thinking she would get away with it.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

justapixel said:


> Gone already!
> 
> Here's the cached page: http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...2/denise-martin.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


Dang. They posted her actual street address on the internet for folks to send donations... With all the controversy around this, the last thing I would want to do is to publish my home address. Too many crazies out there...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Dang. They posted her actual street address on the internet for folks to send donations... With all the controversy around this, the last thing I would want to do is to publish my home address. Too many crazies out there...


Did you not see a few posts back where someone plugged the address into Zillow.com and it revealed that her house is over 2,500 sq. ft. and worth over $350k?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did you not see a few posts back where someone plugged the address into Zillow.com and it revealed that her house is over 2,500 sq. ft. and worth over $350k?


Yeah. Now that you mention it... 

They say the memory is the second thing to go... I wish I could remember what the "first thing" is.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did you not see a few posts back where someone plugged the address into Zillow.com and it revealed that her house is over 2,500 sq. ft. and worth over $350k?


Although it's not clear if that is the correct address. There is a "Street" and a "Court" with the same street name. The phone book entry doesn't say which it is, and we don't know if the blogger has any more information than that entry. If their address is the "Ct." address, then it's listed at 100K less than the other.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> Although it's not clear if that is the correct address. There is a "Street" and a "Court" with the same street name. The phone book entry doesn't say which it is, and we don't know if the blogger has any more information than that entry. If their address is the "Ct." address, then it's listed at 100K less than the other.


Since it was an address designed to solicit donations, it is reasonable to assume it is the right one.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

marksman said:


> Since it was an address designed to solicit donations, it is reasonable to assume it is the right one.


But it wasn't Denise soliciting the donations. It was just a fan who bought into the sob story and thought they were doing something nice. There is no indication that the blogger has any more information that what is available by just searching various online databases. I was unaware that there was a dispute about her address so I'll refrain from making any further statements or assumptions.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

MikeekiM said:


> There's an interesting link within the blog comments:
> 
> http://www.egossip.com/tv/survivor-scandal-denise-martin-and-superintendent-face-tv-4150


I'm sorry, but I really get annoyed with vague posts like this.

I read the blog comments. I see no link. I dont know what you are referring to as interesting. Can you please elaborate?

Thanks.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

marksman said:


> Since it was an address designed to solicit donations, it is reasonable to assume it is the right one.


It's a random fan blogger. I wouldn't assume anything.


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## Jayjoans (Jan 23, 2003)

justapixel said:


> I'm sorry, but I really get annoyed with vague posts like this.
> 
> I read the blog comments. I see no link. I dont know what you are referring to as interesting. Can you please elaborate?
> 
> Thanks.


I agree, I found nothing in that blog. Frustrating post to say the least. As if there were some sort of Easter egg that he couldn't just point us to.


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