# Help replacing dying drive in stock TiVo HD



## horribtastic (May 15, 2008)

I have a TiVo HD with lifetime service, and no hardware upgrades. It still has the stock 160 GB hard drive, and after ~9 years of service, it's finally giving up. At least I assume that's the problem. The TiVo is stuck in a reboot loop, sometimes reaching "Almost There", sometimes rebooting before that. I suppose I could have a capacitor problem, but I feel like I should try replacing the hard drive first.

I've purchased a 2 TB "Red" WD drive from Newegg (model WD20EFRX) based on some reading I've done. The TiVo was at the latest software version before this problem occurred, and I don't care to save any settings or recordings from the old disk. I really don't know what the right path forward is, though. I'm on a Mac, and I've got a USB/SATA adapter. Should I use MFS Tools, or WinMFS in a virtual machine? Where do I even download these tools? Since my hard drive is presumed dead, do I need to download a TCD652160 image somewhere?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

horribtastic said:


> I have a TiVo HD with lifetime service, and no hardware upgrades. It still has the stock 160 GB hard drive, and after ~9 years of service, it's finally giving up. At least I assume that's the problem. The TiVo is stuck in a reboot loop, sometimes reaching "Almost There", sometimes rebooting before that. I suppose I could have a capacitor problem, but I feel like I should try replacing the hard drive first.


Did you look at the caps? They'll be exposed once you open up your unit to replace the drive.

I used WinMFS to copy and expand onto 2GB drive a while back but it has been so long I don't remember the details. You are probably better off copying stuff from the old drive (I know you don't care to preserve what is there) because there have been some reports of people having trouble getting latest software to download during a repeat guided setup.


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## horribtastic (May 15, 2008)

I haven't opened it up, so I don't have any visual info on the state of internals yet. Everything I've read so far makes it sound like failing hard drives are the most common problem, but I realize capacitors could be an issue too…

If the hard drive is failing, will it be possible to copy it in any useful way? My assumption is that if the hard drive is to blame, it has issues which would prevent a successful copy.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The power supply may be the culprit in the problem. Copying the drive that is going bad could also copy the problem with it.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

The TiVo HD almost certainly has the capacitor problem, and it will result in the problem you describe - basically the TiVo tries to boot up, and then suddenly draws a lot more power that the capacitors can't carry over and the power rails drop. causing it to reset.

If you haven't popped the cover off after 9 years, it's likely the problem. My series 3 need recapping earlier this year after surviving for 10 years without it - making mine an outlier as everyone else esperienced the problem within about 5-7 years after they got it.


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## horribtastic (May 15, 2008)

Makes sense. That's a bummer—I wasn't expecting to need more than a hard drive swap.

What's the best way to fix blown capacitors? Do people solder in new capacitors, or is it better to just replace the whole power supply? Power supplies from Weaknees are kind of spendy…any alternative sellers?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

horribtastic said:


> If the hard drive is failing, will it be possible to copy it in any useful way? My assumption is that if the hard drive is to blame, it has issues which would prevent a successful copy.


If it is just bad sectors, I've recovered by doing dd-rescue copy onto a new drive. This is a slightly modified dd that will keep retrying many times to copy a sector, then if it really fails, will write a zero sector. Often the bad sector can eventually be read through error correction after re-reading many times (weak bits) and if not, ignoring the error and writing zeros sometimes works because the data is an area which is not critical and will get fixed/flushed later on.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

horribtastic said:


> What's the best way to fix blown capacitors? Do people solder in new capacitors


Check out this thread.

Tivo Series 3 - Bad capacitors in power supply

You can buy the capacitors for under $10.

Scott


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

If you just don't want to mess with stuff, here is another option: I have a New-in-Box THD, and I'll sell you either the stock HD or the power supply for $45 each (either or both, shipping included). Any other parts, or even the entire box is also available, but you'll have to pay the shipping.

I bought this unit years back as "insurance" to back up my Lifetime THD box, but never needed to touch it. I opened the box for the first time a few months back to update the base software on the HD to the new version needed to support the Bad Rovi lineup/Guide changes. That went fine (proving the unit is good), and then I just put the box away again. I have now upgraded my old boxes to Bolts, so I'm willing to part out this "insurance" THD if you are interested.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

V7Goose said:


> If you just don't want to mess with stuff, here is another option: I have a New-in-Box THD, and I'll sell you either the stock HD or the power supply for $45 each (either or both, shipping included). Any other parts, or even the entire box is also available, but you'll have to pay the shipping.
> 
> I bought this unit years back as "insurance" to back up my Lifetime THD box, but never needed to touch it. I opened the box for the first time a few months back to update the base software on the HD to the new version needed to support the Bad Rovi lineup/Guide changes. That went fine (proving the unit is good), and then I just put the box away again. I have now upgraded my old boxes to Bolts, so I'm willing to part out this "insurance" THD if you are interested.


Think you can make a WinMFS truncated backup of that image and get a copy to ThAbtO for his archive?


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## horribtastic (May 15, 2008)

Thanks, everybody. Lots of helpful info here.

Work got busy all of a sudden which made for bad timing to start this thread. I still haven't opened up the box to check out the capacitors, but will hopefully have more time again shortly.

V7Goose, that's an interesting option and seems like a fair price. I've already bought a new, big drive to replace the old one, so I'm hoping to use it instead of a stock drive. If my capacitors are blown (I guess they probably are), I'll look into recapping first, as that's probably the cheapest route. But if it seems too involved, or I'm feeling too lazy, I will let you know about buying your power supply.


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## horribtastic (May 15, 2008)

It's been a while, but I feel like I owe it to people here to post the rest of the story.

As multiple people predicted, the capacitors on my power supply were bad. Nothing too dramatic, but there was some obvious bulging. I decided to order new capacitors from Mouser, but despite searching/reading I felt unsure about what exactly to buy. Ultimately, I found the correct category to search within (Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded) and noted recommendations for Panasonic "Low ESR" capacitors. I then examined the capacitors I wanted to replace, and noted the capacitance and voltage rating printed on each. Filtering Mouser's product list by these variables produced a very short list, and from there I simply guessed on diameter, length, and lead spacing.

Here's what my order ended up being:

667-EEU-FR1A222L (2200 uF, 10 VDC) x5
667-EEU-FR1C102 (1000 uF, 16 VDC) x1
667-EEU-FR1A102L (1000 uF, 10 VDC) x2

Obviously, I didn't replace every capacitor on the board. I chose to only replace eight, all near the heatsink. All four on one side, and four that looked like possible offenders on the other side.

It turns out my soldering station was ruined in storage due to a minor flooding incident, so I also had to buy an iron. Luckily the soldering iron I bought from Amazon included a basic spring-based solder sucker. I've never desoldered anything before and it was more challenging for this novice than expected. Some kind of desoldering-specific aid is clearly essential.

Once my selected capacitors were desoldered and replaced with new ones (taking care to orient them correctly), I plugged in the TiVo HD. It booted up and then died just as before, which was very disappointing. However, I unplugged it and plugged it back in out of desperation, and it worked flawlessly the second time. Weird. Hooray!

Also as many predicted, my hard drive was fine. Since I had already purchased a 2 TB drive specifically for the TiVo, I wanted to make the upgrade anyway. Once again, despite searching/reading, I was unsure how to go about preparing the drive. WinMFS, MFS Tools, something else? I'm on a Mac, but I figured I could use a virtual machine. After thinking more about it, however, I realized that the bigger problem was unavailable free space on my computer's hard drive for creating a backup of the TiVo drive. My computer is a notebook with only a tiny amount of available space, and I only have one external hard drive adapter.

So I decided to prepare the new drive using my home server instead. It had free hard drive space for the backup, and I read that MFS Tools should work under Linux. My first attempts with MFS Tools were unsuccessful. I don't remember what was being reported, but it wasn't working. Eventually, I decided to build from source because it seemed that the latest binaries were out of date. Fortunately, I didn't have to go through dependency hell. I only ended up installing git, automake, and zlib1g-dev packages via apt. The resulting binaries worked!

I swapped the upgraded drive into the TiVo, and it just worked. I've got a functioning TiVo again, and over 10x the previous storage capacity. I'm happy.

Thanks for the help, everyone!


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

horribtastic said:


> Luckily the soldering iron I bought from Amazon included a basic spring-based solder sucker. I've never desoldered anything before and it was more challenging for this novice than expected. Some kind of desoldering-specific aid is clearly essential.


I usually just add some flux and use a desoldering wick.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

652 image link sent.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

My Tivo 652 is also now dead. Seems like I have a bad capacitor (replacement cap ordered and on the way) and a bad HD. I removed the 160 GB drive and tried to read it w/ WinMFS but the computer does not even see the drive in the BIOS (and obviously WinMFS did not see it either) so now I am thinking to buy a WD10EURX, but how can I get (and load) the Tivo image on the new blank HD? Is there prep that will be required on the drive to get it ready? I apologize for adding these questions to this existing thread since I know there are numerous other threads asking the same or similar question, but the age of moist of those threads, and the associated dead links, made me want to add to this recent thread. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

DVRBars will probably get you to where you want to be, but you'll need an image if your current drive is really dead.

Then you'll probably need WinMfs to expand to the new full capacity.

Search for the relevant threads.

-KP


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Keith Jones said:


> My Tivo 652 is also now dead. Seems like I have a bad capacitor (replacement cap ordered and on the way) and a bad HD. I removed the 160 GB drive and tried to read it w/ WinMFS but the computer does not even see the drive in the BIOS (and obviously WinMFS did not see it either) so now I am thinking to buy a WD10EURX, but how can I get (and load) the Tivo image on the new blank HD? Is there prep that will be required on the drive to get it ready? I apologize for adding these questions to this existing thread since I know there are numerous other threads asking the same or similar question, but the age of moist of those threads, and the associated dead links, made me want to add to this recent thread. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Be sure you are logged into an administrator Windows user.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Did you actually look for the Disk in Windows Disk Administration?

-KP


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Thanks for the replies!
ThAbt0 - Yes, I used a login with Admin privileges. I did not try running WinMFS as Administrator, but I can give it a try.
kpeters59 - No, I did not try that since I read many posts about the disk not being compatible with windows, and also since the computer was not seeing the drive on boot-up in the BIOS. I can plug it in again and give it another try. I will try the DVRBars program if I can get the computer to start seeing the drive.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Do not let Windows try to read the Tivo drive as it will erase important sectors that is only recognizable to Tivo.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Keith Jones said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> ThAbt0 - Yes, I used a login with Admin privileges. I did not try running WinMFS as Administrator, but I can give it a try.
> kpeters59 - No, I did not try that since I read many posts about the disk not being compatible with windows, and also since the computer was not seeing the drive on boot-up in the BIOS. I can plug it in again and give it another try. I will try the DVRBars program if I can get the computer to start seeing the drive.


A Disk is a Disk. A drive, however, is another thing. If the Disk is being seen by the System, Windows can see it.

You may need to activate a SATA port in the PC Bios.

Definitely do NOT let Windows Initialize it or (obviously?) Format it.

-KP


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Hi KP, sorry for the incorrect terminology - I meant to say the Hard Drive. When I moved the Tivo Hard Drive to my PC I disconnected the existing D: SATA drive (power and SATA) and connected the drive from the Tivo, so I am sure the motherboard SATA port should be up and working. The 160 GB Hard Drive from the Tivo is just not being seen by the PC. Tomorrow I will try hosting the 160 GB drive from the Tivo in a different windows machine to see if that makes a difference.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Again, did you look for it in Disk Administrator?

It definitely won't show as a Drive...it's formatted with a File System Windows can't read.

-KP


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

This morning I tried the 160 GB Tivo Hard Drive in a different windows PC (Win 10 4k Gaming rig) and still no joy. I hear no spin-up or activity from the drive, it is not showing up in BIOS as connected to the SATA port, and Disk Administrator does not show any entry for it (no unformatted or unallocated space). I think the Tivo drive is just dead. Seems like I should buy a new WD10EURX drive to replace it? There is nothing on the old drive (except the Tivo system) that I need to get access to.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Sounds dead, but did you verify that the SATA port you used is 'activated' in the BIOS?

-KP


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

KP - Yes, the SATA port was active (on AUTO, but changing it did not make any difference).


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Sounds dead...

-KP


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Keith Jones said:


> This morning I tried the 160 GB Tivo Hard Drive in a different windows PC (Win 10 4k Gaming rig) and still no joy. I hear no spin-up or activity from the drive, it is not showing up in BIOS as connected to the SATA port, and Disk Administrator does not show any entry for it (no unformatted or unallocated space). I think the Tivo drive is just dead. Seems like I should buy a new WD10EURX drive to replace it? There is nothing on the old drive (except the Tivo system) that I need to get access to.


Save some money and get a better drive. Recommending drive is WD Red, WD10EFRX (about $65), or WD20EFRX (about $85). The WD Green drive (ie. WD10EURX, about $135) are old stock and no longer made. You also need to fiddle with some settings on the green to make it work on Tivo.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

I will order a new drive. I really do not need large capacity (this is not the main DVR system) so a 1 TB unit sounds good. The WD10EFRX sounds like it would fit the need (and I can get it Prime from Amazon, or wait a bit longer for NewEgg). If I get this drive what will I need to do to get it to work in the TCD 652160?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

A working image (I have), and WinMFS (I have). You would then need a way to connect to a computer with Windows because WinMFS runs in Windows. 

For a laptop, you could connect using USB to SATA connection.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Just ordered the WD10EFRX drive. Should arrive on Wednesday. The replacement Capacitors won't be here till Thursday. Sounds like I should be ready to try to rebuild the DVR on Friday, thanks to the excellent help here on TivoCommunity!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

You would also need Torx 10mm and 15 mm drivers, if you don't have them yet.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Well, I now have the replacement Hard Drive (WD10EFRX) and have replaced the faulty capacitor in the power supply, so now I think I am ready to start prepping the new Drive. ThAbt0, how can I get copies of that image and WinMFS (I have the beta 9.3f, but a know good version would be appreciated)? Thank you!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Keith Jones said:


> Well, I now have the replacement Hard Drive (WD10EFRX) and have replaced the faulty capacitor in the power supply, so now I think I am ready to start prepping the new Drive. ThAbt0, how can I get copies of that image and WinMFS (I have the beta 9.3f, but a know good version would be appreciated)? Thank you!


On the way.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Got it. Thank you! I will give it a try tomorrow.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Mission accomplished! The Tivo HD rides again thanks to ThAbt0 & kpeters59! Your help is greatly appreciated.

Now I just have one last problem I need to figure out - before the original HD (and power supply Cap) died I had a WD external drive attached. Now when I plug the external drive in the Tivo sees it and asks me if I want to set it up. When I say yes (and give it the three thumbs down and enter) the system reboots back to the powering up screen. I can definitely live without the external HD, but if this is something easy to fix it would be nice to find the answer.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Why did you go with a 1tb if you wanted extra storage?

-KP


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Avoid using an external drive as failure is much common.


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## Keith Jones (Dec 31, 2017)

Great question KP. I really do not need the external storage. I was reconnecting it because it had been on before. I raised the question because I was worried that it was a sign that I had done something wrong with the switch to the new drive. Sounds like it is a better idea to disconnect it and move on (maybe I can re-purpose the ext drive onto an old computer or something, or maybe a doorstop). Again, thanks to you both!


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

It would work as a USB drive for your PC, wouldn't it?

-KP


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The external drive may also have been the catalyst in the failure of the internal.


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