# wd10000f032 DVR Expander not recognized on Bolt



## wowarning (Sep 30, 2004)

So I finally bit the bullet and picked up a Bolt after weighing back and forth the options of the Roamio Pro with $99 lifetime vs the Bolt with 1 year free and it just came down to not having an extra $300 in the bank right now. I picked up the 500GB model since I have the above mentioned 1TB expander that I've been using on my HD for years. Set it up and plugged it in and it says no external drive attached. Am I missing something here? Since I paid the extra way back for a "Tivo Approved" drive, why doesn't it see it? Anyone?


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## meckel (Oct 25, 2007)

wowarning said:


> So I finally bit the bullet and picked up a Bolt after weighing back and forth the options of the Roamio Pro with $99 lifetime vs the Bolt with 1 year free and it just came down to not having an extra $300 in the bank right now. I picked up the 500GB model since I have the above mentioned 1TB expander that I've been using on my HD for years. Set it up and plugged it in and it says no external drive attached. Am I missing something here? Since I paid the extra way back for a "Tivo Approved" drive, why doesn't it see it? Anyone?


I had the same issue. Here is what they did, the Bolt has a deeper eSATA plug then the previous TiVos. So, the eSATA cable you have does not fit in the Bolt. I called TiVo, they told me about the issue and they sent me a new cable for free.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wowarning (Sep 30, 2004)

Whew! Thanks so much for the info. Does adding the drive still cause you to lose programs that are already recorded?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Any recordings made on the Bolt without the external attached should not be lost when you do connect the external. Once the external is attached and recognized, any future recordings will be lost upon disconnecting the external.


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## wowarning (Sep 30, 2004)

Called TiVo yesterday and the replacement cable is on the way. I wonder, why in the world would they change the depth of the connector?


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

TiVo may be looking at larger storage than the current 1TB eSATA

They would not have changed the depth unless they are looking at other eSATA sourced drives to get larger storage that require a deeper seating in the eSATA connector.
Deeper seating allows for a slightly stronger connection.
This would only come into play if the Bolt was be moved frequently with its storage.



wowarning said:


> Called TiVo yesterday and the replacement cable is on the way. I wonder, why in the world would they change the depth of the connector?


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

Same issue here, called TiVo and replacement cable on the way. Since I have little patience I pulled out the Dremel and diamond cutting wheel and shaved part of the sheeting back, and now the old cable works fine.

Thanks all for this thread as I could not figure out why the Expander was not working.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

zerdian1 said:


> TiVo may be looking at larger storage than the current 1TB eSATA
> *
> They would not have changed the depth unless they are looking at other eSATA sourced drives to get larger storage that require a deeper seating in the eSATA connector.*
> Deeper seating allows for a slightly stronger connection.
> This would only come into play if the Bolt was be moved frequently with its storage.


I am sorry, but the "deeper seating" has nothing to do with "larger storage" the issue is that there's a mismatch between cables and connector specs (no idea which is right and which is wrong) and some cables just don't mate well with some connectors, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion or why.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

TiVo has long had issues with eSATA cables not fitting well. My old OLED Series 3 had similar issues with some brands of eSATA cables.


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> I am sorry, but the "deeper seating" has nothing to do with "larger storage" the issue is that there's a mismatch between cables and connector specs (no idea which is right and which is wrong) and some cables just don't mate well with some connectors, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion or why.


My guess was that they were looking at other manufacturers than just Western Digital. 
The WD eSata cables fit fine in the older TiVos.
So they had to modify the eSata cable connectors to fit other Manufacturers than just the WD eSata Cables.
WD has announced that they were not planning on making larger eSata Storage devices.
There are several manufacturers that make larger eSata Storage Devices and some that use both eSata and USB.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

zerdian1 said:


> My guess was that they were looking at other manufacturers than just Western Digital.
> The WD eSata cables fit fine in the older TiVos.
> So they had to modify the eSata cable connectors to fit other Manufacturers than just the WD eSata Cables.
> WD has announced that they were not planning on making larger eSata Storage devices.
> There are several manufacturers that make larger eSata Storage Devices and some that use both eSata and USB.


Doncha just love it when everybody makes their own "different just enough to cause intermittent problems" versions of supposed industry standards?


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

TiVo has not announced that they are looking at larger eSata Storage.


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## tivodv (Dec 5, 2015)

wowarning said:


> So I finally bit the bullet and picked up a Bolt after weighing back and forth the options of the Roamio Pro with $99 lifetime vs the Bolt with 1 year free and it just came down to not having an extra $300 in the bank right now. I picked up the 500GB model since I have the above mentioned 1TB expander that I've been using on my HD for years. Set it up and plugged it in and it says no external drive attached. Am I missing something here? Since I paid the extra way back for a "Tivo Approved" drive, why doesn't it see it? Anyone?


I have an Expander I purchased maybe four years ago, quit using TiVo for a while as I went with DIRECTV and when I came back to Comcast the first thing I did was purchase the Bolt. I plugged the TiVo approved expander in with a run of the mill HDMI cable and it also would not recognize it. I spoke to TiVo and ordered one of their cables as I had read the Bolt's esata slot is recessed further into the machine than others. Before I received that cable however, and after the Bolt had gone through a few sleep/wake cycles, all of a sudden I turned it on the other morning and it recognized (saw) the drive, formatted it with no problem and it is working fine with an ordinary esata cable I got off Amazon. In the two days it took for the unit to somehow recognize the My Book I never fooled with the settings or fiddled with the esata cord. 
Oddly enough it just decided to recognize it. So possibly a few restarts or sleep cycles might help your unit get recognized also. I have no idea if that is why mine started working to be honest but I did not fool with it in the meantime (I used it but did not reset or play with the esata cord) so it may be worth a try to put it through a few wake/sleep cycles. I likely put mine through more than some as I supplement it with the Roku 3 given the Bolt only really has a handful of streaming apps and it taking far too long to even get a Hulu app going (writing code for steaming services should not take this long, its not like a PC game that came take teams of people a year or more to get right. I mainly use my Roku at night as it has more services by an order of magnitude so maybe the wake/sleep cycles a few times a day had something to do with it. In my mind it would be worth a try as the Bolt is new and this is when issues like this would be showing up (not the first bug I have had, one time all my steaming channel stations worked, but when you went to play a movie or show the sound would be there but only a red screen). Unplugging the machine for about five minutes a FEW times seemed to fix that issue (restarting it did not). You may instead of having to keep it off for it to fall to sleep or whatever for a while first try just unplugging it for about five minutes, plugging it back in and seeing if doing that a few times helps. Just a thought. Just be aware the problem does not seem related to the esata cord used as I only got mine from TiVo today and it has been working with a standard one from Amazon (I read in the forums but only in two spots that a few people felt that the esata input was recessed into the back of the Bolt too far and required a longer male end for that side. To be honest the cord I received today looks like any other. 
Sorry for running on and being a bit repetitive. Force of habit, those in my profession have a hard time keeping any writing short. Good luck and I hope this simple solution helps. Once again I would suggest unplugging it a few times for five minutes or so (may take up to five times) to see if that somehow prompts the unit into recognizing your Expander (which by the way is no longer manufactured, nor is any expander approved by TiVo. Hard to find them for the $124 retail price; most places have run out of new inventory so Amazon only lists used ones for around $288, eBay sellers are charging big bucks for new ones they can get their hands on and way over retail for used ones, and if you can believe it Newegg is selling the $124 WD My Book AV DVR for just under $500; I assume that had an inventory of new ones left and likely purchased some from other stores that sold them, maybe a chain like Tiger Direct which was having financial issues and closing all but a few stores. TiVos site makes it look like they are still being made (I called WD and confirmed they are not, all you need to do is check WDs current products page, moreover like TiVo they list the unit and price but give you a link to purchase in their stores that does not work, the brick and mortar stores you are referred to list them as unavailable or more honestly no longer manufactured. Unfortunately, TiVo has a lot of competition and no one is likely to make money manufacturing expansion drives for a small base. I am going to try to build one of my own using a 12v esata enclosure and a 2tb hard drive. I am not sure if it will work but plenty of people have upgraded their internal drives to 2tb ones (the Bolt take 2.5 drives) without having to do more than spend ten to twenty minutes simply swapping out the drives (no software or tweaks required). The units recognize the new, larger drives (typically from what I have read mostly Seagate not Western Digital, format them with no problem and then go right into the setup process. I could be wrong but if it works for an internal drive why not with an external? (I would prefer not voiding my warranty). If anyone reads this and has actually built their own expander using a 12v hard drive enclosure (less than $30 on Amazon) with a 2tb hard drive (also with prices at all-time lows) and have been successful in getting it to work with your Roamio or Bolt I would really appreciate your letting know what esata powered enclosure you used and what hard drive worked (some are sold as AV drives but personally I am not aware of anything special about 3.5 hard drives just because they say AV unless simply more cache (certainly not spinning faster or using a new type of platter/hard drives besides the SSD revolution have stagnated for years with the exception being hybrids which may not have turned out to be all that great of an idea from what I have read about lifespan. Once again if you built your own and it worked I would really appreciate any info you have. Thanks.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

tivodv said:


> omitted for brevity


It's not about the enclosure. There's a very specific list of drive model/firmware combinations that a TiVo will accept unless you send the box off to a 3rd party like Weaknees and have them "marry" the external.

This is a list posted by a TiVo customer service rep on their forum (post #3).

https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/f...#e11272971&channelID=10&portalPageId=10432560

I think that list is based on WD enclosure model numbers. This is the list of drives that I extracted directly from a Premiere about a year ago.

model=WDC WD10EURX-73C57Y0|fwrev=01.01A01
model=WDC WD5000AVJS-63TRA0|fwrev=12.01C01
model=WDC WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0|fwrev=01.01B01
model=WDC WD5000AVVS-63H0B1|fwrev=05.04C05
model=WDC WD10EVVS-63E1B1|fwrev=01.01A01
model=WDC WD10EVVS-63M5B0|fwrev=01.00A01
model=WDC WD10EVVS-73M5B0|fwrev=01.00A01
model=WDC WD10EVDS-73U8B1|fwrev=01.00A01
model=WDC WD10EURX-73FH1Y0|fwrev=01.01A01

Either way, none of those exact combinations are in production anymore and they were limited to 500GB or 1TB drives.


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## tivodv (Dec 5, 2015)

Yeah. I sent customer service and email a few weeks ago pointing out the issue and simply asking if they had any info regarding whether I could build my own Expander and if they knew of any 2TB drives that might be compatible (this was before chatting with Customer Support where they first informed me they were not aware that WD no longer made the TiVo expander. I pointed out he was incorrect and received no argument. Before that as noted I sent a detailed email which boiled down to a single question, did they have any idea if any 2TB hard drives on the market that if placed in a 12v esata enclosure would be recognized and formatted by the TiVo. I even pointed out the citation of the web site you mention listing the drives and noted they were bare WD drives, all 1TB and under and the page did not even make clear what they were for in my opinion as no references to instructions or even the ability to replace the My Book hard drives were provided. 

I sent an email actually assuming TiVo has to have done some experimenting as I cannot believe they have not experimented with various hard drives in a powered esata enclosure; I also assumed they would not have wasted their time on drives smaller than 2TB given 1) 1TB is not the ideal size for media boxes when larger drives are available (and in fact we know work in TiVo's given that 2tb drives are pretty much plug and play in the Bolt internally at the price of your warranty and TiVo has to be aware of the same as the forums are full of instructions on how to upgrade to larger hard drives even though the Bolt uses a 2.5 drive), and 2) prices are at an all time low on hard drives (for various reasons including the fact that SSD drives keep falling in prices as companies in that area at least keep changing the internal tech which lowers the price of previous generation ones (still plenty fast) every six months, and 3) there is not design difference between a 1tb and 2tb drive hard drives and cache sizes should have no impact on anything (which is true for internal drive upgrades). Finally I cannot believe they are not aware that a few sites actually sell compatible esata custom expansion drives BUT ONLY IF YOU PURCHASE ONE OF THEIR TIVO's, which they have also expanded in some cases up to 6tb internally. If independent engineers can afford to make money selling TiVo's with 2tb and up hard drives as well as custom expansion drives 2tb and up I find it hard to understand why TiVo cannot do the same, unless they do not have a clue as to what many of their die hard fans want. 

Have to break this post into 2 due to character limitations


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## tivodv (Dec 5, 2015)

So back to the email and sorry for the length again, as noted after pointing out a few things I simply asked Customer Service if they were aware of any 2TB hard drives that a Bolt would recognize if placed in an external enclosure and automatically format. I was and am going to put together a 2tb esata expansion drive anyway but hoped they may be able to put me on the right track and save me some money if the actual hard drive type in fact matters (I question the need for specific firmware but we shall see). I admit I was a little angry at the following response as they did not address a single issue I brought up and I see is as simply more, in my personal, not legal opinion, deception on their part. I have included the reference number so they can go back and review the emails in case they read this.

This was TiVo Customer Supports response to my question (sorry to repeat myself by remember I cited to them their web page of 500gb and 1tb older WD hard drives in my original email):

12/6/2015
From: TiVo Customer Support TiVo [ ref:_00D50JZS8._50038imXqN:ref ]

"Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support.
Currently our Western Digital My Book expanders are out of stock. Here is a list of supported 500GB and 1TB Western Digital Model.

# Drive ID via eSATA Capacity Firmware Enclosure

1 WDC WD5000AVJS-63TRA0 500GB 12.01C01 My DVR Expander

2 WDC WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0 500GB 01.01B01 My DVR Expander

3 WDC WD5000AVVS-63H0B1 500GB 05.04C05 My DVR Expander

4 WDC WD10EVVS-63E1B1 1TB 01.01A01 My DVR Expander

5  WDC WD10EVVS-63M5B0 1TB 01.00A01 My DVR Expander

6 WDC WD10EVVS-73M5B0 1TB 01.00A01 My Book AV Expander

7 WDC WD10EVDS-73U8B1 1TB 01.00A01 My Book AV Expander

8 WDC WD10EURX-73FH1Y0 1TB 01.01A01 My Book AV Expander

Please contact us again if you have any questions or concerns and we would be happy to assist you.

The reference number for this inquiry is 05259188. Please refer to this number if you choose to contact us again regarding this request. In order to reply to this email, please log into My Support at www.tivo.com/mysupport. Replies directly to this email will not be received.

Sincerely,

Jessica

TiVo Customer Support Representative

www.tivo.com/support

ref:_00D50JZS8._50038imXqN:ref"

[Note: All they did was quote the drives on the TiVo web page I cited to them. They totally ignored every relevant issue and did not answer a single question]

Needless to say not all that helpful and I have to wonder if intentionally insulting. PLEASE NOTE I WOULD INCLUDE THE EMAIL I SENT THEM AS IT WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO BUT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE CONTACTED CUSTOMER SUPPORT YOU KNOW THAT YOU INPUT YOUR EMAIL INTO A FORM ON THEIR WEBSITE SO NO COPY. However they did provide the reference numbers and obviously keep their own copies so maybe someone from the company will read this and provide some answers. I did not respond but went the Chat route to try to get some info to no avail. So I have ordered an external esata 12v enclosure with a fan and what is advertised as a 2tb AV hard drive. If it works I will provide the exact components used. If the first drive does not work I will likely try a few others before giving up.

My basic point remains the same, their expanders are not "out of stock" but instead no longer being manufactured. If I had a Roamio I would likely simply replace the internal hard drive. However the Bolt a new product with new components with no track record of reliability so I am not willing to void the warranty at this point by upgrading the internal hard drive. As noted in another post I we may end up needing our warranties. The other day my streaming channels (at least both Amazon and Netflix) both showed up on the TiVo, allowed me to sign in, showed menus but when I went to play anything the title bar loaded and then the screen turned red on both apps (I think the volume worked in the background but don't recall at this point). I have a Roku 3 sitting on top of the TiVo (I like the fact that Roku has more than a couple of steaming services including Hulu which TiVo has been promising), which is plugged into the same powered ethernet box that the TiVo is plugged in to. Bottom line the Roku worked fine on the same titles. Restarting my TiVo via the menu did nothing but unplugging it for 5 minutes worked.

I am lucky as my old My Book AV DVR started working after 2 days with an Amazon esata cable and am not desperate. However I would still like a larger expansion drive, and hopefully a 7,200rpm one. Therefore I am still going to build my own and have ordered a 12v esata HDD enclosure which even has a fan. I had simply hoped that TiVo would share some knowledge just in case I end up having to try more than one HDD drive (I know myself and if the first drive I try does not work I will likely try at least two or three more from different companies, including ones that make AV claims (which I don't think mean much but who knows) and ones that don't.

Thanks for all your help TiVo. Once again if anyone who has successfully built an esata expander that works please let me know as soon as possible as I have not purchased the HDD yet, hoping someone might respond.


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## tivodv (Dec 5, 2015)

Sorry for all the posts but I a question came to my mind and also I want to give TiVo credit where due.

First today I turned on my Bolt and TIVO NOW HAS HULU!!! The app works great and is integrated into their recordings etc so I understand why it took awhile to get it finalized. THANK YOU TIVO and now I can get rid of my Roku.

Second, a question for anyone who knows more about hard drives than I do. I started wondering why TiVo would manufacture 8 different hard drives (in only two capacities) for the Expander. They have different model numbers and I simply don't understand why WD would spend the money to make so many versions if they are somehow unique and built specifically for a single TiVo Expander (the box and I would have to assume the hardware in the enclosure was exactly the same for the 500gb and 1tb models. 

Is it possible that external drives or ones powered by 12v expanders might have some minor design difference that has nothing to do with any TiVo requirement. Moreover who knows if something non-TiVo related is unique their could have been a number of more models, TiVo would obviously only list 500gb and 1tb models.

So does anyone know if at that time some hard drives (maybe those used for mainly for AV recording) were somehow unique but not specific to TiVo. Once again what would be the economic reason for manufacturing 8 different hard drives for the same machine? 

So my question for anyone who knows hard drives (I promise to do my own research but am being lazy for now) know of any variation that may have made a hard drive compatible with the TiVo Expander but were not in anyway manufactured just to be compatible with TiVo? In a way it would make sense as the drives listed sold for the same price as any other drive (you would think if something special for TiVo had to be done a premium would have to be paid). If this is the case maybe their is some variety of hard drive (once again maybe something having to do with being in a direct plug 12v enclosure) still being made today that would be compatible and have nothing to do with any change required by TiVo. I don't know but it just occurred to me as strange that so many models are listed as compatible where really there should only be two. 

Anyone have any thoughts on the issue? Once again I am trying to avoid having to buy multiple hard drives to see if I can get an enclosure working. Thanks for any help and if you may know someone to ask please do. THANKS

ONCE AGAIN KUDOS TO TIVO FOR GETTING HULU ONTO THE BOLT AND DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB OF INTEGRATING IT.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

tivodv said:


> So back to the email and sorry for the length again, as noted after pointing out a few things I simply asked Customer Service if they were aware of any 2TB hard drives that a Bolt would recognize if placed in an external enclosure and automatically format. I was and am going to put together a 2tb esata expansion drive anyway but hoped they may be able to put me on the right track and save me some money if the actual hard drive type in fact matters (I question the need for specific firmware but we shall see). I admit I was a little angry at the following response as they did not address a single issue I brought up and I see is as simply more, in my personal, not legal opinion, deception on their part. I have included the reference number so they can go back and review the emails in case they read this.
> 
> This was TiVo Customer Supports response to my question (sorry to repeat myself by remember I cited to them their web page of 500gb and 1tb older WD hard drives in my original email):
> 
> ...


You won't find anyone who has successfully built a home-brew 2TB expander because there aren't any. The ONLY external drives that ANY TiVo will use have already been listed.

There are 9 drives on that list. If it doesn't have the exact same model number and firmware your TiVo (S3, Premiere, Roamio or Bolt) will refuse to pair with it, and none of them are 2TB.


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