# 20.7.4 has arrived!



## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

My Roamio Basic received 20.7.4RC2 a few weeks ago, my Mini is still running 20.7.2RC24.


----------



## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Mine was also updated last night.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Some people are reporting that despite their boxes not being in “pending restart”, that the box updated to 20.7.4 after rebooting. 

People were restarting because guide data wasn’t updating. My was not, but eventually worked itself out, so I didn’t restart. I’m assuming that if I actually get the update it will update on its own.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

morac said:


> Some people are reporting that despite their boxes not being in "pending restart", that the box updated to 20.7.4 after rebooting.
> People were restarting because guide data wasn't updating. My was not, but eventually worked itself out, so I didn't restart. I'm assuming that if I actually get the update it will update on its own.


I began a restart. It's now installing an update.

Update done. Music apps are gone.


----------



## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Seems like all the Apps can now be turned On or Off and they've been split into 2 sections; Apps that will be used in TiVo Search and Apps that you'd like to add to the Apps menu.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Actually I just double checked any my box is on 20.7.4.RC2. I guess it rebooted on its own despite not showing pending restart. That could also explain why I got new guide data.

Other than the Apps being consolidated in one group, has anyone noticed any other changes?


----------



## syllogistic (Aug 25, 2017)

@morac

I noticed that when I go to *Apps - Add & Manage Apps *and then scroll all the way down to the bottom, there is a check mark next to *Hydra Downgrade App* and *Hydra Upgrade App*.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> Other than the Apps being consolidated in one group, has anyone noticed any other changes?


 Local HME apps (like streambaby) now show up again under "Apps" menu, so TiVo fixed that.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

morac said:


> Other than the Apps being consolidated in one group, has anyone noticed any other changes?


While they document that checking an app makes it display in TiVo Central, Apps, they failed to mention that it also shows up in My Shows. However, it always did so I guess that's not really new.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

I only realized that I have 20.7.4 because I was looking through settings and info for clues to the C130 issue I am/was having this morning.

Our new Bolt had a Successful Service Connection at 4:22am this morning. Next Scheduled is 4:40pm today. It's been a while since I noticed, but weren't these closer to 24 hours than twelve? Maybe it's 12 after a SW update?

When I first woke the TiVo from standby this morning, I had the top banner stuff as normal. A couple of minutes later I got the C130 "No Internet Connection" issue, but Testing Internet Connection passed multiple times.

My first thought was to check ToDo to see if I was out of data, but it wouldn't let me, citing the C130.
Then I saw that, on the TiVo Central screen, when on Apps or Manage Recordings... the entire right panel text was greyed. I find it odd that we need network connectivity for everything under Manage Recordings...

Anyway, while I was typing all this, my banner stuff came back. So either the Tivo had some housekeeping that impaired some other Tivo process, or not connecting to a Tivo server is mistaken for "No Internet Connnection". Good times.


----------



## JandS (Oct 1, 2010)

_Moved from 20.7.2 has arrived thread, thank you to thread starter]_

Arrrrrgh! Here's a VERY ANNOYING thing that changed after the two reboots yesterday/today. Roamio Plus, 6 tuner, cable. Have been on 20.7.4RC2 for a couple of weeks.

We have OnePasses set up for our NBC local channel news (5:30pm), national (6pm) and local news (6:30pm).

Usually we switch over from another channel (live TV) to the tuner with the 6pm national live, e.g. at 6:10pm or something like that. Back up to start, watch national, sometimes pausing multiple times. This pause occasionally lasts up to, say, 6:40pm. Because it was recorded, the paused program has =always= stayed on-screen, so when the 6:30 local comes on, it takes another tuner to record in the background. The pause continues for a long time (never tested how long, but 30-40 minutes at least, maybe much longer). When we got through the national then it would seamlessly play the 6:30pm local. Occasionally we would have to rewind back to the beginning, but usually not.

Tonight, at precisely 6:30, while the 6pm national was paused at the 6:20 mark -- bammo -- the "tuner focus" what is basically liveTV being recorded, switched to the 6:30pm local -- bye-bye paused national. And the national program in the buffer didn't have any indicator for "resume play", it started at the beginning, at the 6pm mark.

This wasn't because it needed to grab a tuner to do some other recordings, there were at least 2 non-currently recording tuners available.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

tlc said:


> Hmm. The Last Successful and Next Scheduled connection times have changed. I have not restarted the box, but I did run test connection one more time. Previously it was 4:22am and 4:40pm today. Now it's 4:46am and 11:56am today. So the past was changed! (Last Successful connection time.) And my Next Scheduled is sooner.
> 
> Do the Hydra references do anything yet? The App checkboxes are checked, but I see no such Apps in the menus...


 the hydra apps do nothing also on tivo's in cox service areas we have a coxVP app but nothing happens like the hydra apps and no info from cox or tivo on the new cox app


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

syllogistic said:


> @morac
> 
> I noticed that when I go to *Apps - Add & Manage Apps *and then scroll all the way down to the bottom, there is a check mark next to *Hydra Downgrade App* and *Hydra Upgrade App*.


I noticed that, too, after one of my Bolts had updated. I unchecked both - not sure why, but I probably just didn't want any surprises.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

sharkster said:


> I noticed that, too, after one of my Bolts had updated. I unchecked both - not sure why, but I probably just didn't want any surprises.


Considering those two Apps don't actually appear anywhere other than the manage screen, I don't think checking or unchecking those Apps does anything.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

I can verify for sure there is no pending update status in my case. I went to a Roamio and connected to mothership because my other Roamio Pro was already on 20.7.4.RC2. The connection went very quickly, didn't even really spend much time loading data. Verified no Pending Restart status. Wasn't about to play the game of connecting again because it would be unlikely I'd receive an update if I wasn't picked. Then remembered folks here said they never got a Pending Restart message, so I restarted on my own. Then it gave me the perform software update message.

I timed how long it took to reboot and it was a little over 2 minutes, which is basically the same amount of time it takes my Roamio to normally boot, give or take. So with the no "Pending Restart" notification and the very fast reboot, I concluded this wasn't a full software update in the sense that we are used to. This is possibly (some conjecture here) some scripts that were being run to prepare your unit for the Hydra update and fix a few minor issues with the list of Apps being displayed. Probably just fix a few database entries.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sfhub said:


> This is possibly (some conjecture here) some scripts that were being run to prepare your unit for the Hydra update and fix a few minor issues with the list of Apps being displayed. Probably just fix a few database entries.


Not even worthy of an update to the release notes web page.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Did anybody notice the new User Preference to change highlight bar from White back to Yellow?

...

Just kidding


----------



## TivoJD (Feb 8, 2005)

LOL


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Local HME apps (Streambaby, Galleon) are fixed 
Exclamation point on pyTivo video shares is fixed 
Playing music (on Roamio) is still broken 
Colors/highlights are still ugly/unreadable 

Are unreadable closed captions fixed?
What else?


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Some people are reporting fixed double remote key presses and fixed TiVo online viewing.

These may have been related to this release.

The double key presses might also be coincindental with the reboot, which has temporarily resolved the issue for some people in the past, so give it a couple of days before making the conclusion.

The TiVo online viewing problem might be a fix with this release or could be a fix on TiVo online coincidental with this release.


----------



## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> Not even worthy of an update to the release notes web page.


The release notes page always seems to lag behind the actual releases seen in the wild. Looking at the publication tab of the release notes page, I *think* the 20.7.2 notes went up about a month(8/22/2017) after the "20.7.2 has arrived" thread was started(7/27/2017). So maybe we'll see release notes for 20.7.4 before Thanksgiving!


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I really used to appreciate when there would be a 'message' on the Tivo, at the point of an update having been installed, that listed the changes. Sucks that they don't do that anymore.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

sharkster said:


> I really used to appreciate when there would be a 'message' on the Tivo, at the point of an update having been installed, that listed the changes. Sucks that they don't do that anymore.


They should have displayed this image when booting up.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Roamio Basic 20.7.4.RC2

The progress bars have Disappeared in My Shows, All, Select a show with multiple episodes. The resulting list Used to have a progress bar next to each episode showing how much was watched. Same with My Shows, TV Series, select a show with multiple episodes.


----------



## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

The progress bars are not missing from my Roamio Basic running 20.7.4.


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

sharkster said:


> I really used to appreciate when there would be a 'message' on the Tivo, at the point of an update having been installed, that listed the changes. Sucks that they don't do that anymore.


I can understand that for big updates. And I have seen that for big updates. But this seems to be a small maint update so I would not expect anything


----------



## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

I got that new release on 2 Roamios , They seem to have fixed the audio video sync problem in Quick Mode. I usually use it on news shows at night, and I didn't have to the gyrations we had been doing to correct sync,


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

wtkflhn said:


> I got that new release on 2 Roamios , They seem to have fixed the audio video sync problem in Quick Mode. I usually use it on news shows at night, and I didn't have to the gyrations we had been doing to correct sync,


Thanks for that info. That is very nice to know and hope it is true. What I have been hoping for. *It ONLY took almost 2 months... * No priority page, so what do we have to do? Wish for it?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I just noticed that when doing a one pass from a game like nba basketball, you get a choice of nba basketball or one of the teams. I created one and it worked.

I think that is the new release.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

sharkster said:


> I noticed that, too, after one of my Bolts had updated. I unchecked both - not sure why, but I probably just didn't want any surprises.


A TiVo update, and no "surprises"? LOL - LOL - LOL.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Sigh. My Roamio got 20.7.4.RC2 this morning and has spontaneously rebooted 2 times already that I know about (happened while I was watching recorded shows).


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Well, there are surprises. This is the release that killed my slide remotes. All of them.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

moyekj said:


> Sigh. My Roamio got 20.7.4.RC2 this morning and has spontaneously rebooted 2 times already that I know about (happened while I was watching recorded shows).


Are the reboots reproducable in the same positions in the show or are they random?


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

sfhub said:


> Are the reboots reproducable in the same positions in the show or are they random?


Appear to be random. Just went back and played section of a show about where it rebooted last time and it didn't reboot.


----------



## ericr74 (Apr 16, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> I just noticed that when doing a one pass from a game like nba basketball, you get a choice of nba basketball or one of the teams. I created one and it worked.
> 
> I think that is the new release.


I like the sports team concept, but it doesn't look like it's working correctly. I just created a season pass for the Denver Broncos. It finds their game this Sunday, but doesn't find next Monday's game. The titles are the same, and the only difference in description is the opponent name.

I've been having problems with my Denver Broncos wishlist since the change to Rovi data. I've adjusted the wishlist a bunch of times and it misses some games. I really hope this new feature will start working right.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> I just noticed that when doing a one pass from a game like nba basketball, you get a choice of nba basketball or one of the teams. I created one and it worked.
> 
> I think that is the new release.


Just did a quick check and if you try to setup a One Pass now for the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL it prompts you to pick a team f you like.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Yes but Sports Pass is really no better than a wishlist in current form, especially because it doesn't give capability to filter out channels that you don't want it to record from (such as blackout channels). Plus I'm not convinced it works even as well as a well formulated wishlist for a particular team you want to follow.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> Well, there are surprises. This is the release that killed my slide remotes. All of them.


My slide remotes still work.


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Old style Bluetooth slide remotes and first version minis. Verified by TiVo. There is another thread about this.


----------



## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Has anyone with a mini gotten the update?


----------



## buildersboy66 (Dec 9, 2016)

TiVo online issue went away for me on previous firmware 20.7.2. I doubt this new firmware is a fix for it. Somebody stated it is still not working with 20.7.4 . Total mystery for sure.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Very bizarre, even for Tivo, Inc. Like it has been said, No pending restart on my Roamio Pro, but restart seemed normal and it was then at 20.7.4.RC2. QM problems seems to be fixed. Shockers, it was Them.

XL4 updated too, but it went thru a normal semi-long update and was already on 20.7.2.RC24. Very strange.

No sign of it yet on my Mini.

Thanks again for the heads up. Will it never say Pending Restart again???


----------



## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

My Roamio just rebooted on its own and when it started back up it went to installing an update and now I have 20.7.4. I checked earlier and I had no pending restart and my next connection was scheduled for around 11AM today. So I have no idea when it downloaded the update. I could have come with the VCM connection.


----------



## Nickipedia (Jul 18, 2015)

tim_m said:


> Has anyone with a mini gotten the update?


 Yes


----------



## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Nickipedia said:


> Yes


Ok was wondering cause mine has not as of yet.


----------



## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

wtkflhn said:


> I got that new release on 2 Roamios , They seem to have fixed the audio video sync problem in Quick Mode. I usually use it on news shows at night, and I didn't have to the gyrations we had been doing to correct sync,


And on Bolt:

Yes! I was complaining loudly and often about audio sync with Quick Mode in previous release. (20.7.2. Was there ever a 20.7.3 release?)

Quick Mode A/V synch has been fixed! Fantastic.

I don't check the community here that often, but noticed the sync change just an hour ago. I'd been getting reluctantly used to being out of sync (no "gyrations" fixed sync for me - my A/V was out of sync 100% of the time), watching while ignoring the cognitive disconnect, so I really wondered tonight if my brain had adapted to the point where I had become completely oblivious. Checked some recordings, checked some live TV, took note of the TiVo release number and came here to check if there was a new discussion thread.

This is real, and it's spectacular.

Thank you TiVo.

I can't comment on whether anything else is broken, but as long as I don't notice anything that personally inconveniences me, I am not disturbed by (or even aware of) UI changes I can adapt to with minimal to no effort.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Ask and we receive. Software release page for 20.7.4 is posted -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

No more USA? My software version is 20.7.4.RC2-846-6-846 on a basic Roamio. It was always USA, and I've seen posts where it is USC. Never saw a post with USB. That might generate support calls. 

If "Pending" is dead, I will be very unhappy.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Our Roamio Pro rebooted itself last night at 2:18am for the update. I didn't check to see if it had a Pending Restart before I went to bed though.

Scott


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This _seems_ to mean that the guide will extend without viewing TiVo Central:
Issue 461289: Incorrect Guide search screen may show if user has been viewing remote content and has yet to touch TiVo Central

If that's true, it is still broken. But it may mean something else.


----------



## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Ask and we receive. Software release page for 20.7.4 is posted -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


Nice! The QuickMode fix is listed.

Is there a way to find summaries for earlier releases, including the 20.7.3 I didn't know (might have) existed? Or do they overwrite it each time. Based on the publican history, it looks like they've been updating a single publication since 2015, in which case I'd have to save them.

*Publication Status* Published
*Last Modified Date* 10/18/2017 7:59 PM
*First Published Date* 8/14/2015 12:26 PM
*Last Published Date* 10/18/2017 7:59 PM
*URL Name* TiVo-Software-Version-Information

Does anyone have any from the last year, and can they be uploaded here?


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

SM for Premiere?


----------



## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

wtkflhn said:


> I got that new release on 2 Roamios , They seem to have fixed the audio video sync problem in Quick Mode. I usually use it on news shows at night, and I didn't have to the gyrations we had been doing to correct sync,


Audio sync in QM also fixed on my Bolts with this update.


----------



## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

V7Goose said:


> Audio sync in QM also fixed on my Bolts with this update.


Seems fixed on my Roamio Pro as well. I've watched 2 shows in QM and closed captions also worked properly again. But that has been hit or miss for many months, so I'm not ready to declare it resolved.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Sparky1234 said:


> SM for Premiere?


I think that ship has sailed


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

My minis got it last night


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

wmhjr said:


> Old style Bluetooth slide remotes and first version minis. Verified by TiVo. There is another thread about this.


My original BT slide works fine on the Roamio after the update. Awesome to see that they finally fixed the YouTube lockup issue on Minis too (haven't tried that yet after update).


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> My original BT slide works fine on the Roamio after the update.


Apparently, it's the V1 minis that are affected. Every single one of mine will no longer accept commands from any of my first gen bluetooth slide remotes. This happened to every one of them at the same time - right after receiving this update. It's described in another thread about this subject.

Further, Tivo acknowledged the issue. Before contacting them I purchased a new slide remote pro, and it worked perfectly. Then after calling, and spending an enormous amount of time on the phone, they acknowledged the issue and finally agreed to replace the remaining old slide remotes. They did not refund me for the purchase (directly from them) of the other one. There are also others who have experienced this exact behavior since the recent updates. I never bothered trying the old remotes on either of my Roamios because at this point I'm very much of the mind of "if it ain't broke...." concerning Tivo. Plus, I already have the newer slide pro units on my Roamios.

BTW, tried absolutely everything we could think of to troubleshoot this. Specifically......

1) Unplugged mini for 10 minutes - then rebooted.
2) "master reset" and repair on the slide remotes
3) swapping slide remotes between units
4) Obviously, replacing batteries (dumb, but....)

The remotes still control TV and AV sources perfectly fine.
The remote and the "USB adapter" still display proper blue light sequences - meaning that when you press a button on the remote, you see appropriate blue light response on both the remote and the USB adapter on the Mini.

There is zero possibility that the recent update(s) are not responsible for the failure of the old BT slide remotes to communicate with V1 minis.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

IraF said:


> Is there a way to find summaries for earlier releases, including the 20.7.3 I didn't know (might have) existed? Or do they overwrite it each time. Based on the publican history, it looks like they've been updating a single publication since 2015, in which case I'd have to save them.
> Does anyone have any from the last year, and can they be uploaded here?


I have printouts from 20.6.3 since, as you noticed, they will overwrite the page with each release. Should you decide to print this release, select "printer friendly" first.

Sorry, no way to upload paper.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This looks like an incomplete description:
*Issue 468336:* May not be able to change Unrated TV and Movie

Anyone recognize it?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Sparky1234 said:


> SM for Premiere?


Nope. I just received update for my 746500. No change (except Apps) on the menus. It still said "Restart Pending" after connection. I'm actually surprised that it will get Hydra. But I'll wait to see if it really gets it.

Software 20.7.4.RC2-746-2-746, so it lost the USA also.


----------



## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> I have printouts from 20.6.3 since, as you noticed, they will overwrite the page with each release. Should you decide to print this release, select "printer friendly" first.
> 
> Sorry, no way to upload paper.


Oh well, thanks for checking. I did print this one (printer friendly), but also saved it. Can save "web page complete," and/or html only, and/or print to (i.e. save as) PDF, depending on browser. But then one has to remember where you saved it on computer. I have to do a search on the word "TiVo" to find the folder I've saved stuff in.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

It's funny how now many people are saying the QM Audio Out of Sync is fixed when not many really complained about it before. Also I am totally shocked that they actually admitted it in the Fix Log (provided by Joe K...thanks).

And some people are really thanking them for a BIG screwup they did that took them almost 2 months to fix? Still glad it was fixed. They have been sending patches down for weeks since it happened, trying to fix it and it kept changing. It really was a non-update in install time. It never said it was installing anything when I restarted it after reading this thread (my Roamio Pro, that is...my XL4 did go thru 2 installs/reboots to install it).

My boxes have not done any random reboots. They hardly ever have or do. One thing to be thankful for.

*So, who is ready to ruin a Roamio or Bolt with HYDRA???*


----------



## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

samccfl99 said:


> Thanks for that info. That is very nice to know and hope it is true. What I have been hoping for. *It ONLY took almost 2 months... * No priority page, so what do we have to do? Wish for it?


I think you'll get it pretty soon. I didn't ask for it and got in both on my Roamios the same night.


----------



## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

samccfl99 said:


> It's funny how now many people are saying the QM Audio Out of Sync is fixed when not many really complained about it before. Also I am totally shocked that they actually admitted it in the Fix Log (provided by Joe K...thanks).


Not sure what you're saying, except that since the problem was real and serious enough for TiVo to fix, and an important enough fix to report in the Change Log, that means people... don't use QM? Can't spot the ridiculously obvious sync problem? (It was the largest sync problem I've ever seen.)

Oh, I think I saw more complaints about QM than I've seen reports that it's been fixed.



samccfl99 said:


> And some people are really thanking them for a BIG screwup they did that took them almost 2 months to fix? Still glad it was fixed. They have been sending patches down for weeks since it happened, trying to fix it and it kept changing.


I didn't know they were sending patches, but it's nice to know they were trying to fix it. But I am curious how you knew those patches included efforts to fix this problem.

Anyway, there is no guarantee that a given bug will ever be fixed. Ever read gripes about certain problems with iPhones, Macs, PCs, or Windows? Some bugs persist for years, and the companies responsible are much bigger than TiVo.

All software has bugs - lots of bugs. Even if those bugs were introduced late in the game, as this one was, still it's a new bug and goes on a list. A long list. Bugs are assigned priorities, have to be scheduled for troubleshooting and a solution, then the solution has to be tested. There is no guarantee that a bug that matters to one person will be ranked all that importantly by TiVo - especially if it's true, as you say, that few people were complaining.

I said "thank you" because for all I knew, the problem would persist forever. Perhaps I meant I am thankful it was fixed.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

samccfl99 said:


> It's funny how now many people are saying the QM Audio Out of Sync is fixed when not many really complained about it before.


I never complained about it because it wasn't that big a deal. Hit pause, hit play, all good.

Glad they fixed it, though. Minor work around isn't a big deal, but not having to work around at all is much better!


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I never complained about it because it wasn't that big a deal. Hit pause, hit play, all good.
> 
> Glad they fixed it, though. Minor work around isn't a big deal, but not having to work around at all is much better!


But it was irritating, having it and having to periodically correct it; especially as it worked so well before and TiVo managed to break it . . . .


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wmhjr said:


> Apparently, it's the V1 minis that are affected. Every single one of mine will no longer accept commands from any of my first gen bluetooth slide remotes.


That's what you get for being an early (v1) adopter . . . .


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> That's what you get for being an early (v1) adopter . . . .


With most companies, early adopter means that you expect bugs when the product is released. With Tivo, it seems to mean that even older products can easily have crippling defects introduced years after the product is released. In their efforts to fix newer features, they completely killed all functionality related to using the original style BT slide remotes with the original mini. I wouldn't have spent for getting a new slide pro remote last week except the minis are in a location where IR remotes aren't feasible. So, either try to fix it or frankly my Tivo setup is useless to me. So, this time it cost me about $65 to fix their quality issue and simply retain use of my lifetime products. Even though others already reported the issue at the same time I started experiencing it, Tivo (as usual) denied any knowledge to begin with. Only after going through all the troubleshooting, then showing how the new slide pro works, and then escalating, could I get the other ones replaced.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I hate the fact that software can be so easily updated and perfectly good code mucked up. With my Dell Venue 8 Pro tablet/laptop, a seemingly-innocuous Windows Update a few years ago affected the very ability to sign in to Windows--it took Microsoft 2 weeks (or more?) to fix that, with the entire Dell Venue 8 Pro user base having bricks during that time unless they were savvy enough to locate a rather esoteric work-around (not for the "general" user) _which Dell itself (as well as Microsoft) did not inform the user community about._


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> But it was irritating, having it and having to periodically correct it; especially as it worked so well before and TiVo managed to break it . . . .


Oh, definitely. I was just giving a data point towards the question of why at least some affected people weren't talking about it.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

so very pleased with the update. Don't see any issues. Waiting for the Hydra to come online.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

IraF said:


> I didn't know they were sending patches, but it's nice to know they were trying to fix it. But I am curious how you knew those patches included efforts to fix this problem.


I'm pretty sure they weren't sending any updates/patches since there were no version changes. While they can do some minor changes (configuration) that don't require code changes, this issue was obviously at the code level.

Scott


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

idksmy said:


> My Roamio Basic received 20.7.4RC2 a few weeks ago, my Mini is still running 20.7.2RC24.


My Tivos, a Bolt, a Roamio Pro, Roamio Basic and a Premiere. The Bolt, Roamio Pro and the Premiere updated to 20.7.4. The Roamio Basic has not, and is not getting new guide data though it keeps connecting. Could be because it is almost constantly recording something, even in the wee hours. A problem with the Roamio Pro, not sure if it has anything to do with the update. Had the Dodgers/Cubs game setup to record last night. It SHOWED that it was recording but it did not, was just blank when I tried to play it. The game was coming in fine on live TV. I stopped the scheduled recording and started it again, it then worked. Weird. Also I did notice the "no internet connection" message on a Mini at a relative's place even though the connection was fine. And it could not see the host box. Went away eventually, at least for now.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

tommage1 said:


> I did notice the "no internet connection" message on a Mini at a relative's place even though the connection was fine.


This morning My Roamio said no internet connection even after successfully forcing a connection until I Help, Restarted it. Or maybe the restart took long enough so that Tivo.com was back responding. Seems okay now.

Still okay and I cannot duplicate the problem.

And progress bars have returned to the episode list.


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

tlc said:


> I only realized that I have *20.7.4* because I was looking through settings and info for clues to the *C130* issue I am/was having this morning.
> 
> Our new Bolt had a Successful Service Connection at 4:22am this morning. Next Scheduled is 4:40pm today. It's been a while since I noticed, but weren't these closer to 24 hours than twelve? Maybe it's 12 after a SW update?
> 
> ...


*Data Point:*

My three Roamios (Basic, OTA 500GB, OTA 1TB) were all updated to 20.7.4 yesterday, 10/19/17. Yesterday, OTA 1TB had a C130 error while OTA 500GB, connected to the same gigabit switch, did not. It asked to 'Test Internet Connection' which passed (multiple times). After several minutes sitting idle, the C130 '_went away_' on its own.

Today OTA 500GB had the C130 error, with *EXACTLY* the same symptoms / results as OTA 1TB (no Discovery Bar / can't transfer shows because can't access My Shows). Checking System Information, it had successfully connected and updated the Guide Data LT 30 minutes before. Basic hasn't had the error, possibly because Basic never gets a chance to go into StandBy, but both OTAs do each day.

We'll see what tomorrow brings...


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

JoeKustra said:


> Not even worthy of an update to the release notes web page.


Maybe they were waiting to complete the 'Last Batch' of machines (like my three, updated yesterday) before publishing - last updated: 10/19/17 @ 07:33


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

sfhub said:


> *Some people are reporting fixed double remote key presses* and fixed TiVo online viewing.
> 
> These may have been related to this release.
> 
> ...


Appears reduced on two stacked OTAs using IR & UnitIDs. Got one 'double' today on a 'left arrow', none on 'up', 'down' or 'right arrow' so far.

We'll see what happens in a few weeks...


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ClearToLand said:


> *Point of Reference*
> 
> My three Roamios (Basic, OTA 500GB, OTA 1TB) were all updated to 20.7.4 yesterday, 10/19/17. Yesterday, OTA 1TB had a C130 error while OTA 500GB, connected to the same gigabit switch, did not. It asked to 'Test Internet Connection' which passed (multiple times). After several minutes sitting idle, the C130 '_went away_' on its own.
> 
> ...


I think there is a red-herring overly aggressive check for internet connectivity in this release (or maybe in past releases but I never noticed). I experienced it when I went to a remote unit and backed out right away before the connection was complete. It triggered the C130 error, but I think it is just a flag that the internet connection is down, rather than an attempt to connect followed by failure, because as you discovered, connect to mothership works fine as do the other network tests. Anyway, I just rebooted and it has been working fine. I had never experienced this bogus C130 error in the past. I have had C130 errors in the past when I purposely was messing with the network, but those weren't bogus C130 errors, they were real ones, where the network was down.


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

samccfl99 said:


> Thanks for that info. That is very nice to know and hope it is true. What I have been hoping for. *It ONLY took almost 2 months... * No priority page, so what do we have to do? Wish for it?


FYI:


Release Notes said:


> ---SNIP---
> *Issue 463447:* QuickMode: audio may lag behind video
> ---SNIP---


Maybe "*Issue #*" is the key / reference point to hit the minimum of "_10 Users have reported..._" threshold to ask about when calling in a Trouble Ticket?


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

moyekj said:


> Sigh. My Roamio got 20.7.4.RC2 this morning and has spontaneously rebooted 2 times already that I know about (happened while I was watching recorded shows).


My Roamio Basic rebooted in the middle, 02:33AM, of a Scheduled Recording (60 min). 

Why doesn't the TiVo know that it's 'Busy' and wait for a period of no (at least RECORDING) activity?


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

wmhjr said:


> Old style Bluetooth slide remotes and first version minis. Verified by TiVo. *There is another thread about this*.


*Tivo Slide Remote keyboard no longer works after software update*​


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

ClearToLand said:


> My Roamio Basic rebooted in the middle, 02:33AM, of a Scheduled Recording (60 min).
> 
> Why doesn't the TiVo know that it's 'Busy' and wait for a period of no (at least RECORDING) activity?


It's supposed to wait until no activity (or at least that's the way it used to work). 

Scott


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> It's supposed to wait until no activity (or at least that's the way it used to work).


Probably lots of people complained about not getting 20.7.2 quick enough, so TiVo created an "Issue" and "Fixed" it.


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

JoeKustra said:


> *I have printouts from 20.6.3 since*, as you noticed, they will overwrite the page with each release. Should you decide to print this release, select "printer friendly" first.
> 
> *Sorry, no way to upload paper*.


I use an old program called DoPDF (small resource imprint / small PDF files) to print all of my online purchasing and bill payment screens to PDFs which I then back up to a flash drive. I used to print everything to paper - now only one sheet of paper / two pages (i.e. Account Summary on the front of a sheet; Confirmation Number of payment on the back).

IIRC, Chrome now has a 'Print to PDF' ability built in. [I'm in the process of re-installing Windows 7, along with all of my '_customizations_', on a PC so I'll report back if I'm wrong.]


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> wmhjr said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently, *it's the V1 minis that are affected*...
> ...


*Refurb Mini v1 $69.99 plus $5 shipping from Woot* = LATE adopter (20151203 according to my PDF)...


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

wmhjr said:


> ...*In their efforts to fix newer features, they completely killed all functionality related to using the original style BT slide remotes with the original mini*... ...Only after going through all the troubleshooting, then showing how the new slide pro works, and then escalating, could I get the other ones replaced.


If everything worked fine in 20.7.2 and was broken in 20.7.4, why can't they just 'reverse' / back out what they broke? Did you ask them that?

I temporarily unplugged my Mini v1 in the BR when I got my OTA 500GB but now I'll have to test it with my Slide Remote. Thanks for the heads up. :thumbsup:

Owning, and maintaining one or more TiVos is more of a part-time job than a form of recreation.


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

jth tv said:


> *This morning My Roamio said no internet connection even after successfully forcing a connection* until I Help, Restarted it. Or maybe the restart took long enough so that Tivo.com was back responding. Seems okay now.
> 
> Still okay and I cannot duplicate the problem.
> 
> And progress bars have returned to the episode list.


Do you have 'StandBy' enabled?

*Post #76*​


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

jth tv said:


> This morning My Roamio said no internet connection even after successfully forcing a connection until I Help, Restarted it. Or maybe the restart took long enough so that Tivo.com was back responding. Seems okay now.
> 
> Still okay and I cannot duplicate the problem.
> 
> And progress bars have returned to the episode list.


My Bolt did the same thing last night, couldn't access History, ToDo list, or any of my other Roamios.
Connected, no change.
Tested internet connection, no change.
Put into Standby, woke it back up and the message was gone, and I could check History/ToDo, and stream from another Roamio.

phox


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

sfhub said:


> I think there is a red-herring *overly aggressive check for internet connectivity* in this release (or maybe in past releases but I never noticed)... ...It triggered the C130 error, but I think it is just a flag that the internet connection is down, rather than an attempt to connect followed by failure, because as you discovered, connect to mothership works fine as do the other network tests. Anyway, *I just rebooted and it has been working fine*...


Since my two C130s occurred, thus far, only on the two OTAs [BR / Overflow] that I was 'Waking Up' from StandBy, I'm guessing that it's taking them a finite amount of time to re-login to the TiVo Servers and the test for 'Internet Connectivity' is executing too soon after the command to 'Wake Up'.

Yesterday, I quickly resorted to a soft REBOOT on OTA 1TB - today on OTA 500GB, I just waited and the C130 probelem went away on its own...


Spoiler



I've been really 'under the weather' these past two weeks so I haven't switched the two remotes from IR to RF as we last discussed *BUT* today the "Double Key Press" problem plaguing the two stacked OTAs seems reduced, either due to 20.7.4 or the REBOOT. Time will tell...


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

ClearToLand said:


> If everything worked fine in 20.7.2 and was broken in 20.7.4, why can't they just 'reverse' / back out what they broke? Did you ask them that?
> 
> I temporarily unplugged my Mini v1 in the BR when I got my OTA 500GB but now I'll have to test it with my Slide Remote. Thanks for the heads up. :thumbsup:
> 
> Owning, and maintaining one or more TiVos is more of a part-time job than a form of recreation.


You're kidding, right? Asking support why they did anything or what they might do is like - well - it's useless. Nobody ever is able to talk to anybody who has anything to do with any decisions. Tivo insulates themselves extraordinarily from ever having a meaningful discussion with any customer.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

I don't know if this is new -- I'm new to using Streaming Only OnePasses. But mine just disappeared from My Shows while I was navigating. They were there, then they weren't.

Edit: But they're still on online.tivo.com and can be seen by kmttg.
Edit: Streaming Movies and Not Currently Available are missing, too.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ClearToLand said:


> Since my two C130s occurred, thus far, only on the two OTAs [BR / Overflow] that I was 'Waking Up' from StandBy, I'm guessing that it's taking them a finite amount of time to re-login to the TiVo Servers and the test for 'Internet Connectivity' is executing too soon after the command to 'Wake Up'.


Bogus C130 just happened a second time. Never happened once in 10mo prior. Either something in 20.7.4 or something coincidental at TiVo services side. I can get past bogus C130 by putting the unit in standby then taking it out. To refresh others, the reason this is a bogus C130 error is because the network tests are all fine, TCP Ports, DNS, Internet, and the unit connects to mothership, yet the OS thinks the network is down, so it grays out the parts of the UI that depend on this network available flag.

I did notice the message for waking up from Standby is quicker than before, probably by around 2 seconds, so it could be the network test is failing because it isn't waiting enough time for everything to start up before testing, then after it tests and fails, the network becomes available and it doesn't check again, so leaves the TiVo OS thinking the network is down, when it isn't.

This bogus C130 hasn't shown up on a Roamio Pro configured as a MoCA bridge and Medium Standby, but for this one the waking up from standby message is longer. Previous unit was Roamio OTA.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This morning I had a long delay after I hit the TiVo button on my Mini (I was done using it). I checked and it has 20.7.4 now. No changes, and that includes apps. I still have iHeartRadio and Pandora. Their host Roamio does not. Three more to check.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

ClearToLand said:


> Do you have 'StandBy' enabled?
> 
> *Post #76*


Yes, standby is enabled. The night before I put the Roamio into standby via the remote and then turned off the modem. Did the same last night and this morning no problems at all.


----------



## onovotny (Aug 26, 2013)

Has anyone had the issue where after the Roamio gets a software update, streaming to a Mini keeps losing its connection? It seems to get better in about a week, but in that period, the Mini is basically unusable.

Seems like some background process that happens on a Roamio after a software update causes issues. This happened to me this past spring and again over the summer. It just happened to me two nights ago, and looking here, it appears that the Roamio almost certainly got this latest update.

This is not a networking issue despite the "lost connectivity" messages. The Roamio and Mini are wired into the same switch, and this isn't the first time its happened.

I should also note this doesn't just affect the Mini. Streaming to an iPad/iPhone (via WiFi on the same network) is also impacted and the apps frequently lose connectivity to the Roamio during this period as well.

It's really annoying


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

IraF said:


> Oh, I think I saw more complaints about QM than I've seen reports that it's been fixed.
> 
> I didn't know they were sending patches, but it's nice to know they were trying to fix it. But I am curious how you knew those patches included efforts to fix this problem.
> 
> I said "thank you" because for all I knew, the problem would persist forever.


I know you (and some others like MikeGuy) were vocal about the problem, but if you look in the beginning of the 20.7.TWO Has Arrived thread, many people said they were not seeing the problem. I saw it immediately because I watch most news and a few other things in QM (hardly ever watch much live).

For some who have said, just hitting replay would fix it, well sometimes it did, but then it would just get out of sync by itself. Also after an FF you would have to try and fix it again too.

As for my theory about the "patching", the conditions, to me, seemed to change from time to time a few weeks after it came out. Sometimes (rarely), it even got out of sync not in QM and on MPEG-2 in the later weeks. 20.7.2.RC22 came to me on 07-28 (priority page was up on 6-28) and of course RC24 on 08-24 did not fix it. I contacted Margret on 08-10 and she asked for my TSN's to report it to engineering. Sometime after that (maybe a combination of Margret and my Case, I did get to actually talk to L2 (they called me back on a case I put in, in the beginning). They wanted me to try some things and get a video of it doing it and then entering 7-7-7-CLR to mark a spot in the log. I could never catch it right or hold the phone up well enough to get a good video. I even got an email from another tech about it too, but it was too hard to do what they wanted and I gave up. When I wanted to try again after a few weeks of disgust, they never would contact me back. I have had much experience with L2 and ERT in the old days when they cared (mostly in 2012 with my XL4 and 2013-2015 with my Roamio Pro).

The irritating thing is that this is one of the greatest mods they ever made and they totally screwed it up after it working well since 12-08-2015 with 20.5.6.RC14. I am really picky about software dev because I worked in IT Banking Service Bureaus for over 25 years, where the Feds audited us and making a mistake was really bad. We really had to test and then other people tested and then more people. Can't make big mistakes with peoples money! So that is why I am so critical of Tivo, Inc/Rovi/whatever...LOL.

As far as HYDRA, I surely would love to see a longer demo video. I am not a fan regarding BIG tiles (see Comcast X1). I did not see anything about a strip that would show you the last X number of the last titles that have been played (if you move around in My Shows while watching a recording, it loses current position, as we know)...one of my pet peeves, along with a ScreenSaver and others. I only saw the crappy old guide and not our beloved 2-sided guide. I hate to be a negative nancy, but it cannot be good when it first comes out. If it is, it will be a first for Tivo, Inc. Yes, I see the "downgrade app", but that too probably cannot be trusted in the beginning. I AM JUST A DOUBTER...FROM EXPERIENCE...

*Anyway, all is right in the Tivo world again...for a while. The world, well that is another story and not for here to discuss...*


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

It will be interesting to see what happens. Until the Hydra apps come online for good or bad, we can only speculate what the dangers or adventures we will have ahead....


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Would it really matter if Hydra is good/bad seem it will be the only UI that will receive updates going forward.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

phox_mulder said:


> My Bolt did the same thing last night, couldn't access History, ToDo list, or any of my other Roamios.
> Connected, no change.
> Tested internet connection, no change.
> Put into Standby, woke it back up and the message was gone, and I could check History/ToDo, and stream from another Roamio.
> ...


Same thing last night when I got home from work.
Dropped a step this time though, just tested internet with no change, put into standby and woke up and it was working again.

Only having this issue with the Bolt, 3 other Roamios also upgraded to 20-7-4 work just fine.

Of course, I prefer just using the Bolt to watch the content on the Roamios these days.

phox


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

20.7.4 has not fixed the 2-5 second mpeg4 freeze issue on Comcast when using trick play. This may be a Roamio-only issue.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> 20.7.4 has not fixed the 2-5 second mpeg4 freeze issue on Comcast when using trick play. This may be a Roamio-only issue.


It must not be universal. I have two Roamios, one Comcast and one antenna, and neither show any freeze issue, ever.


----------



## Telesphoros (Nov 27, 2005)

Mine exhibited some odd behavior. I lost my sort and search capabilities. There was no notice the software had been updated. Could still access streaming via xfinity app and netflix, but the option to see streaming show capability and sort by date/episode, etc. was just gone. Had to force a restart to get those options back.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

ClearToLand said:


> Appears reduced on two stacked OTAs using IR & UnitIDs. Got one 'double' today on a 'left arrow', none on 'up', 'down' or 'right arrow' so far.
> 
> We'll see what happens in a few weeks...


ITA as far as my Bolts, both of which have cable. I've only seen a couple of times when it kind of doubled up on the click but 99% of the time, it seems better. Yay for that. That was frustrating.


----------



## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

There is one new misfeature: you cannot sort folders in My Shows anymore. You used to be able to sort each one individually by date or season/episode (my preference). Now all folders are sorted by date in reverse order (most recent first). I’m not sure what the purpose was for eliminating this useful feature.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

randian said:


> You used to be able to sort each one individually by date or season/episode (my preference).


I can still sort by date, season, and episode on my unit.


----------



## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

sfhub said:


> I can still sort by date, season, and episode on my unit.


A full reboot brought the sorting capability back. Disturbing that it disappeared in the first place.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

randian said:


> There is one new misfeature: you cannot sort folders in My Shows anymore. You used to be able to sort each one individually by date or season/episode (my preference). Now all folders are sorted by date in reverse order (most recent first). I'm not sure what the purpose was for eliminating this useful feature.





sfhub said:


> I can still sort by date, season, and episode on my unit.





randian said:


> A full reboot brought the sorting capability back. Disturbing that it disappeared in the first place.


Happened on my Bolt also, along with losing the progress bars for episodes. A UI refresh fixed it.


----------



## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

Anyone know anything about the major new UI changes coming, the one that makes it look all graphical sort of like the X1 UI?
It is on the new VOX coming so I figured we all might get it soon.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> 20.7.4 has not fixed the 2-5 second mpeg4 freeze issue on Comcast when using trick play. This may be a Roamio-only issue.


I'm glad that you posted this, as I had just noticed this glitch in the last couple of weeks and thought that my Roamio Pro was developing the flu. It is somewhat reassuring to learn that the issue is systemic (and thus subject to an eventual correction via software update).


----------



## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

Rkkeller said:


> Anyone know anything about the major new UI changes coming, the one that makes it look all graphical sort of like the X1 UI?
> It is on the new VOX coming so I figured we all might get it soon.


Like any other new release, people involved with testing the new release cannot talk about it.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Rkkeller said:


> Anyone know anything about the major new UI changes coming, the one that makes it look all graphical sort of like the X1 UI?
> It is on the new VOX coming so I figured we all might get it soon.


It's called Hydra. You can find a few threads around here with a bit more info.

We don't know exactly when it's going to come though things are pointing toward soon. Also rumored that this update will be optional, but once you update there will be no going back to the old UI.


----------



## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

DancnDude said:


> ...but once you update there will be no going back to the old UI.


This may not be true, given the Hydra Upgrade App and Hydra Downgrade App introduced with 20.7.4.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

idksmy said:


> This may not be true, given the Hydra Upgrade App and Hydra Downgrade App introduced with 20.7.4.


Perhaps they both switch to Hydra. You just get a choice whether to call it an upgrade or a downgrade.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

idksmy said:


> This may not be true, given the Hydra Upgrade App and Hydra Downgrade App introduced with 20.7.4.


I have been pretty busy lately, but do not remember seeing this new "app" in 20.7.4 - any details or a link?


----------



## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

Lurker1 said:


> Perhaps they both switch to Hydra. You just get a choice whether to call it an upgrade or a downgrade.


LOL you may just be right. If it's anything like the new visually graphical Hulu UI experience watch out. Hulu has pretty much stopped replying to the thousands of user complaints. I'm happy TIVO is at least giving us a choice to change to Hydra or not. I will hold off and watch the feedback on here from those who try it.


----------



## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

My Roamio got 20.7.4.RC2 last week. Happy to find Streambaby is working again!
Channel up and down and pause and such works fine on the TIVO remote 
and the slide-top remote.


----------



## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

wbrightfl said:


> LOL you may just be right. If it's anything like the new visually graphical Hulu UI experience watch out. Hulu has pretty much stopped replying to the thousands of user complaints. I'm happy TIVO is at least giving us a choice to change to Hydra or not. I will hold off and watch the feedback on here from those who try it.


I'm interested in how Hydra will run on a v1 Mini, which will be the oldest piece of hardware that can be upgraded.

Also, will you be able to upgrade a host box without upgrading the Mini (or vice versa)?


----------



## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

Rkkeller said:


> Anyone know anything about the major new UI changes coming, the one that makes it look all graphical sort of like the X1 UI?


I pray it doesn't actually work like the X1 UI, because while the X1 looks pretty its usability is poor. Actions take far too many steps to execute compared to a TiVo.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

randian said:


> I pray it doesn't actually work like the X1 UI, because while the X1 looks pretty its usability is poor. Actions take far too many steps to execute compared to a TiVo.


Be prepared to be disappointed


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

wbrightfl said:


> LOL you may just be right. If it's anything like the new visually graphical Hulu UI experience watch out. Hulu has pretty much stopped replying to the thousands of user complaints. I'm happy TIVO is at least giving us a choice to change to Hydra or not. I will hold off and watch the feedback on here from those who try it.


It is not unlike the switch to Rovi guide data. TiVo called that an upgrade, but most customers call it a downgrade.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I used the "B" button to toggle captions last night, and heard a soft bong. Anyone else hearing a sound when you toggle closed captions using "B"? First time I've heard it, and I'm wondering if they added that to 20.7.4?

One of the complaints about the "B" toggle was the difficulty in knowing when it kicked in. The bong would help, if this is true.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That would be useful...but in general I HATE the bong and have it turned off. And I don't think it would be worth having to put up with it elsewhere to have the CC feedback...


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

One thing I'm seeing more and more is what may have been called the "double button press" or something, here. Not sure what that was.

In my case, I'm seeing repeated instances where I go to Tivo Central, then My shows, select content (expecting it to go to the play/delete/related videos/explore/more options screen). Then I often get a BSC but not always, then it sends me right back to Tivo Central. If I repeat this action, it works properly the 2nd time. It happens on all of my mini V1s (4 of them) and both of my Roamio Pros. All of them have been rebooted. All of them are on 20.7.4. None of them did this prior to 20.7.4.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

astrohip said:


> I used the "B" button to toggle captions last night, and heard a soft bong. Anyone else hearing a sound when you toggle closed captions using "B"? First time I've heard it, and I'm wondering if they added that to 20.7.4?
> 
> One of the complaints about the "B" toggle was the difficulty in knowing when it kicked in. The bong would help, if this is true.


it's done that since launch of the accessibility features not new


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

astrohip said:


> I used the "B" button to toggle captions last night, and heard a soft bong. Anyone else hearing a sound when you toggle closed captions using "B"? First time I've heard it, and I'm wondering if they added that to 20.7.4?
> 
> One of the complaints about the "B" toggle was the difficulty in knowing when it kicked in. The bong would help, if this is true.


I just tested turning CC on via the B button and I didn't get a "beep" on my Roamio Plus. Tried it with both DD (my default) and PCM on. No beep either time.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just tested turning CC on via the B button and I didn't get a "beep" on my Roamio Plus. Tried it with both DD (my default) and PCM on. No beep either time.


Are sound effects enabled?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I am hearing the CC bong as well. pretty faint, but a nice feedback option.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

3rd time now that sort options and progress bars have disappeared from the My Shows Episode list. Not cool.

And skip, didn't notice skip before. This morning I decided watch recordings without restarting and then at the first commercial break for Supergirl realized something had to be wrong. Help, restart and it appears all is well, skip, sort and progress bars are back. (well, no skip for Supergirl S3E3, but others now have skip back). I hope I will not have to do this Every Day.

Roamio Basic using an Antenna, 3TB.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Are sound effects enabled?


Good point. Turned them on and heard it on PCM.


----------



## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

astrohip said:


> Anyone else hearing a sound when you toggle closed captions using "B"?


I've always had the sound effect for the "hold B to toggle CC" feature.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Good point. Turned them on and heard it on PCM.


I wish there were a way to enable sound effects for just some features, rather than all or nothing. The CC toggle bong would definitely be useful, but I don't need it enough to suffer the continual navigation sound effects (understanding that many people love them).


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> I wish there were a way to enable sound effects for just some features, rather than all or nothing. The CC toggle bong would definitely be useful, but I don't need it enough to suffer the continual navigation sound effects (understanding that many people love them).


I have sound effects enabled, but the toggle bong won't sound because TiVo can't play sound effects when digital audio is active, so I never get any sounds anyway.


----------



## jackstoker (Jul 31, 2017)

jth tv said:


> ...
> And skip, didn't notice skip before. This morning I decided watch recordings without restarting and then at the first commercial break for Supergirl realized something had to be wrong. Help, restart and it appears all is well, skip, sort and progress bars are back. (well, no skip for Supergirl S3E3, but others now have skip back). I hope I will not have to do this Every Day.
> 
> Roamio Basic using an Antenna, 3TB.


I've had SkipMode disappear several times beginning immediately after the 20.7.4.RC2 update! Not only do the icons disappear, but the ability to SKIP as well. Each time it required restarting the TiVo OTA to repair. While some SKIP icons returned immediately after restarting, some took a couple of hours to reappear. I haven't been able to determine when the loss occurs, or what sequence of events may be causing the loss. I even lost the SKIP icons while playing a recording with SkipMode, however, that one recording continued to show the SKIP notifications, and continued to SKIP, even though the SKIP icon disappeared in My Shows.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

tlc said:


> I don't know if this is new -- I'm new to using Streaming Only OnePasses. But mine just disappeared from My Shows while I was navigating. They were there, then they weren't.
> 
> Edit: But they're still on online.tivo.com and can be seen by kmttg.
> Edit: Streaming Movies and Not Currently Available are missing, too.


When I wrote this before, the missing items came back ~ 90 minutes later. Tonight I notice they're gone again. Also, the green Skip icons are gone at the My Shows level and multiple episodes level, but there in the individual episode level. Skip still works.


----------



## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

It's back! Lost buffer on channel that has an upcoming recording which I 'm watching. 
As soon as the recording starts the buffer disappears and jumps to the recording in progress, losing
ability to watch the previous program.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I hope you guys are opening tickets on these issues. I've not seen any issues with our Roamio Pro yet.

Scott


----------



## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

leswar said:


> It's back! Lost buffer on channel that has an upcoming recording which I 'm watching.
> As soon as the recording starts the buffer disappears and jumps to the recording in progress, losing
> ability to watch the previous program.


I'd never seen this before. It certainly was jarring to me when it suddenly jumped to the recording in progress, denying me the end of the current show, although I was recording the current show so was able to go to the recording and watch the end of it.


----------



## esb1981 (Dec 2, 2007)

I’m getting the lost buffer issue too. I’ll open a ticket.

Also noticed lost audio in streaming Netflix, HBO Go and Amazon Video after the upgrade. Put in a ticket and they told me to change from Dolby to PCM, which fixed it. But PCM sounds crappy on my A/V so this is pretty annoying. The rep didn’t seem to think it was a big deal.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

jackstoker said:


> I've had SkipMode disappear several times beginning immediately after the 20.7.4.RC2 update! Not only do the icons disappear, but the ability to SKIP as well. Each time it required restarting the TiVo OTA to repair. While some SKIP icons returned immediately after restarting, some took a couple of hours to reappear. I haven't been able to determine when the loss occurs, or what sequence of events may be causing the loss. I even lost the SKIP icons while playing a recording with SkipMode, however, that one recording continued to show the SKIP notifications, and continued to SKIP, even though the SKIP icon disappeared in My Shows.


Me too.

I also see a bug in the UI. Was in "My shows", but select and right arrow just redrew "my shows" without selecting the show or drilling down into the folder. I pressed *left *arrow and was taken back to the play/delete screen of show I had just watched. Pressed left arrow again and was taken back to My shows, only this time it behaved normally.

For a while, until I figured it out, I couldn't play anything back. I'm tired of having to reboot the DVR daily. At least the remote is fixed as I've only had one or two double presses, both left arrows.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

leswar said:


> It's back! Lost buffer on channel that has an upcoming recording which I 'm watching.
> As soon as the recording starts the buffer disappears and jumps to the recording in progress, losing
> ability to watch the previous program.


Me too.


----------



## JandS (Oct 1, 2010)

thank you for the succinct descriptions, my verbose one here:

20.7.4 has arrived!


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

JandS said:


> thank you for the succinct descriptions, my verbose one here:
> 
> 20.7.4 has arrived!


I saw that awesome, spectacular post and couldn't top it, because that's exactly what happened to me except I was watching a different channel. Plus this bug has been discussed already when it first appeared, and so far it looks to be the exact same bug.

I was just preventing people from posting, "it's not happening to me so maybe it's a problem with your specific Tivo." It's happening to multiple people, just like the skip data suddenly vanishing. Fix one bug, create two more including one that had already been fixed (it's called regression testing, Tivo. Look into it).


----------



## OhFiddle (Dec 11, 2006)

I just got the update just a couple of days ago and since then I've had at least two instances where several hours of shows failed to record with the reason given as "power lost". The first time I assumed it was because the update was installing and rebooting and taking a long time. It did apparently unfreeze itself or reboot and then I got the last 2 minutes of one show recorded. Yesterday I noticed in the app that several already aired shows were stuck in the to do list. I went to check on the main unit (Roamio Plus) and it was stuck on the "waking up" screen. Connected Minis were able to play recorded content throughout this timeframe, but not get a live tuner. Obviously the app was able to interact with the Roamio too. A hard reset brought the Roamio back up and the failed recordings left the to do list and went in the history with the "power lost" flag. I've had this problem a few times before intermittently and am wondering if it is brought on by these updates. Should I be soft or hard rebooting newly updated boxes several times?


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

wmhjr said:


> One thing I'm seeing more and more is what may have been called the "double button press" or something, here. Not sure what that was.
> 
> In my case, I'm seeing repeated instances where I go to Tivo Central, then My shows, select content (expecting it to go to the play/delete/related videos/explore/more options screen). Then I often get a BSC but not always, then it sends me right back to Tivo Central. If I repeat this action, it works properly the 2nd time. It happens on all of my mini V1s (4 of them) and both of my Roamio Pros. All of them have been rebooted. All of them are on 20.7.4. None of them did this prior to 20.7.4.


I've noticed this same issue on both my Minis. It possible that it is happening on the Roamio also. It happens the first time after every reboot. Seems fine after that.


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

DBrunetti said:


> I've noticed this same issue on both my Minis. It possible that it is happening on the Roamio also. It happens the first time after every reboot. Seems fine after that.


It happens a lot more frequently than that for me. Essentially, at LEAST the first time after "waking" the mini. Not just after reboot.


----------



## burdellgp (Mar 28, 2008)

One nice thing I've noticed with 20.7.4: my HDMI issues between my Bolt+, Pioneer receiver, and Sony TV appear to have gone away (I also got a Sony update around the same time, so it could have been fixed by that as well).


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Omg. OPERA TV CHANGED TO VEWD APP STORE


----------



## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

IBC 2017: Opera TV Rebrands as 'Vewd' | Multichannel

Home - Vewd


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JACKASTOR said:


> Omg. OPERA TV CHANGED TO VEWD APP STORE





eherberg said:


> IBC 2017: Opera TV Rebrands as 'Vewd' | Multichannel
> 
> Home - Vewd


Just seems way too close to *Lewd*; seems like a name for a porn site for exhibitionists.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

krkaufman said:


> Just seems way too close to *Lewd*; seems like a name for a porn site for exhibitionists.


I agree now that you mention it.


----------



## oryan_dunn (Dec 2, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> Just seems way too close to *Lewd*; seems like a name for a porn site for exhibitionists.


Hilarious, the ad next to your comment...









Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

jth tv said:


> I hope I will not have to do this Every Day.
> 
> Roamio Basic using an Antenna, 3TB.


Yesterday fine with no restart. Today, now the 4th time, sort options, progress bars and skip icons have disappeared from Shows Episode list. Skip does work fine when watching a recording.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i woke to sd recordings from last night, but only for 3 stations - abc, nbc, & cbs (not fox, cw, or other cable channels).

when checking my 1p manager, sure enough, all 1p's for only those channels had modified themselves to the sd equivalent, even though those sd channels aren't added to the guide, or listed as an available channel when modifying the 1p's - it affected manual recurring recordings for those channels, too.

i deleted/recreated the manual recurring recordings, but after deleting/recreating a few of the 1p's, i ended up simply modifying the others to save time.

don't know if this is related to the 20.7.4rc2 update, or our comcast channel migration, or both - they happened on the same day for me. it seems odd that my 1p's worked fine for a week, then decided to go wonky yesterday...i'll watch closely to see if it happens again.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

jth tv said:


> Yesterday fine with no restart. Today, now the 4th time, sort options, progress bars and skip icons have disappeared from Shows Episode list. Skip does work fine when watching a recording.


My skip data came back last night without a reboot, but my skip icons in My Shows or folder views are still missing. But if you go to the play/delete screen for a particular episode, the green skip icon is there.


----------



## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Just seems way too close to *Lewd*; seems like a name for a porn site for exhibitionists.


Should be Newd

now please post your cell phone ads here after this post


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

BobCamp1 said:


> My skip data came back last night without a reboot, but my skip icons in My Shows or folder views are still missing. But if you go to the play/delete screen for a particular episode, the green skip icon is there.


That has happened to me from before 20.7.4. The higher level (as in higher navigation level) Skip icon is often missing. It shows up eventually, usually within a day. If you want to trigger the behavior immediately, just MRV transfer a show to a different unit. It'll have skip mode after the transfer, but the icon will be missing at the expanded folder view. It also happens on new local recordings, just it is less consistent, sometimes the icon will be there, sometimes not. When you transfer the show, it'll always be misssing. In all the cases I've seen (both local and transferred remote shows), this is just a display issue for the skip mode icon, as the show level detail has the skip mode icon, and skip mode actually does work.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

sfhub said:


> That has happened to me from before 20.7.4. The higher level (as in higher navigation level) Skip icon is often missing. It shows up eventually, usually within a day. If you want to trigger the behavior immediately, just MRV transfer a show to a different unit. It'll have skip mode after the transfer, but the icon will be missing at the expanded folder view. It also happens on new local recordings, just it is less consistent, sometimes the icon will be there, sometimes not. When you transfer the show, it'll always be misssing. In all the cases I've seen (both local and transferred remote shows), this is just a display issue for the skip mode icon, as the show level detail has the skip mode icon, and skip mode actually does work.


This was different. Mine had stopped working altogether. Pressing 'D' did nothing. Rebooting fixes it immediately. Or apparently it just comes and goes. Hope it works tonight.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Oct 26.... 3 days to Hydra. Tick tock tick tock.......


I wonder if the kickstart codes will still work in Hydra?


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

JACKASTOR said:


> Oct 26.... 3 days to Hydra. Tick tock tick tock.......
> 
> I wonder if the kickstart codes will still work in Hydra?


And all the S-P-S codes/settings that I use?


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

humbb said:


> And all the S-P-S codes/settings that I use?


Guess the bottom line here is "We are all Scr**ed"..... at least till we learn otherwise... gonna be a big learning Curve is my guess. Even with swapping old drives out to update to Hydra to Back in to downgrade..........We wont really know how things are going to work till we try.....


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

JACKASTOR said:


> Guess the bottom line here is "We are all Scr**ed"..... at least till we learn otherwise... gonna be a big learning Curve is my guess. Even with swapping old drives out to update to Hydra to Back in to downgrade..........We wont really know how things are going to work till we try.....


What you mean "we" kemo sabe? 

I've decided to wait awhile before pushing the upgrade button. I have a single Roamio Pro with over 300 recordings (mostly copy protected movies) that I can't afford to lose.
One of the reasons I'm waiting is that I'm very pleased with 20.7.4. The slimmed down UI has given my Roamio a new zippiness in response and app loading, and I believe an improved picture quality. I will be interested in hearing if Hydra performs similarly on a Roamio. Also I spent a week with out-of-town friends who have the Comcast X1 system which seems graphically similar to Hydra, and couldn't believe how many button pushes were required to perform simple tasks compared to Tivo.

Now if the Hydra program guide quality shows an unexpected significant improvement ... you might twist my upgrade arm.


----------



## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Sorry, no way to upload paper.


I guess you never heard of scanning..


----------



## WRX09MD (Aug 25, 2013)

wmhjr said:


> Well, there are surprises. This is the release that killed my slide remotes. All of them.


Got me too, lost both of mine on the two minis. Had to come here to see if something changed and this thread was the disappointment I expected. Had to splurge on two new slide pros.


----------



## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

I've never understood why new releases from TiVo often have seemingly random breakage of perfectly usable features, like folder sorting gone missing that requires a reboot to fix.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

randian said:


> I've never understood why new releases from TiVo often have seemingly random breakage of perfectly usable features, like folder sorting gone missing that requires a reboot to fix.


Because they do not seem to know how to test correctly...never did. Long history with them doing this. 2 months for the QM fix and it worked fine for more than a year. C133 errors in 2013-2014. Rovi fiasco.

BSD's alot tonite, anyone else? also the out of network streaming server was flakey. Always something...

Again, HYDRA anyone??? Not me for a long time.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mbernste said:


> I guess you never heard of scanning..


Why would I need a movie? -> Scanners - Wikipedia


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> Why would I need a movie? -> Scanners - Wikipedia


If I wanted to make your head explode?


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

Since the update in the morning when I first turn on my Roamio OTA it has an error message that it isn’t connected to the internet (C130) yet I can go to “network” and it connects to the Tivo servers just fine. It will not connect to my bedroom Premier but later in the day it works fine. In fact if I put it into standby and the turn on again it connects fine.

Anybody else having this issue? Premier does not have this issue, only Roamio. Any ideas on how to resolve?

Thanks,
John


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

JonR said:


> Since the update in the morning when I first turn on my Roamio OTA it has an error message that it isn't connected to the internet (C130) yet I can go to "network" and it connects to the Tivo servers just fine. It will not connect to my bedroom Premier but later in the day it works fine. In fact if I put it into standby and the turn on again it connects fine.
> Anybody else having this issue? Premier does not have this issue, only Roamio. Any ideas on how to resolve?
> Thanks, John


I can't say I have that exact issue, by one of my Roamio boxes can't Search, can't make a VCM Connection, and had a network error yesterday. No problems with recording, SM, or anything else. I'm hoping it will go away by Monday or I will be doing a C&DE. The TiVo Status page says everything is fine, but the way the software is written, the servers need to tell their status to that page. If that page asked for status, it may not get an answer and reflect reality.

I also have a Premiere and Roamio that have no problems.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

JonR said:


> Since the update in the morning when I first turn on my Roamio OTA it has an error message that it isn't connected to the internet (C130) yet I can go to "network" and it connects to the Tivo servers just fine. It will not connect to my bedroom Premier but later in the day it works fine. In fact if I put it into standby and the turn on again it connects fine.
> 
> Anybody else having this issue? Premier does not have this issue, only Roamio. Any ideas on how to resolve?
> 
> ...


Getting this on my Bolt along with the loss of folder sorting and progress bars. Seems to have something to do with coming out of Standby, but doesn't happen on my Roamio with the same Standby setting.

A UI refresh fixes it.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

randian said:


> I've never understood why new releases from TiVo often have seemingly random breakage of perfectly usable features, like folder sorting gone missing that requires a reboot to fix.


My guess is they got broken while putting in the hooks for Hydra.

A GUI refresh, which I did for the first time last night in my 16 years as a Tivo customer, is simple:

Go to the Tivo Central screen.
Press thumbs down-thumbs up-play-play.

The screen goes black, a blue circle appears for a few seconds, then everything is working again. For a while, anyway. I'm using standby as well on its medium setting. Somebody else said the problem happens when coming out of standby. An obvious test would be to disable standby and see what happens.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Hmmm


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

BobCamp1 said:


> My guess is they got broken while putting in the hooks for Hydra.
> 
> A GUI refresh, which I did for the first time last night in my 16 years as a Tivo customer, is simple:
> 
> ...


Never new this ... tried it and wow does it work.


----------



## TinCanFury (Sep 12, 2015)

BobCamp1 said:


> Go to the Tivo Central screen.
> Press thumbs down-thumbs up-play-play.


Thank you so much for this trick!


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

another sd recording last night (colbert), but i have no idea when tivo downgraded the channel, all tdl recordings were scheduled in hd after the daily connection, up until a couple of hours before the recording. 

so, i decided to wipe thumbs/suggestions and repeat guided setup to download a fresh channel listing...around the same time tivo's servers went down. 

a couple of hours later, guided setup completed. we'll see if this helps.


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

Started Roamio this morning with no error message until I tried to connect to the Premise unit upstairs and it was grayed out and when I tried to connect to it I received the error code “C130” Not Connected to the Internet” and it returned to Tivo Central with the error message.

I initiated a “UI” refresh and everything is back to normal. I can then connect to the Premier without issue.

If you have this issue please report it to Tivo support as they said I’m the only reported person with this problem.

Thanks,
John


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

JonR said:


> Started Roamio this morning with no error message until I tried to connect to the Premise unit upstairs and it was grayed out and when I tried to connect to it I received the error code "C130" Not Connected to the Internet" and it returned to Tivo Central with the error message.
> 
> I initiated a "UI" refresh and everything is back to normal. I can then connect to the Premier without issue.
> 
> ...


Are you using "Power Saving?" Which one?

This happens on my Bolt coming out of Standby on Low, Medium, and High, but never on my Roamio.

Weird bug


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> Are you using "Power Saving?" Which one?
> 
> This happens on my Bolt coming out of Standby on Low, Medium, and High, but never on my Roamio.
> 
> Weird bug


I checked and it is on "Low". Does your Bolt perform correctly if you turn Power Saving off (Manual)?


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cherry ghost said:


> Are you using "Power Saving?" Which one?
> 
> This happens on my Bolt coming out of Standby on Low, Medium, and High, but never on my Roamio.


I think there is a race condition with the check for Internet connectivity and the restarting of the network. The check happens too quick and the UI thinks the network is down, but after the check the network continues to initialize. So the parts of the UI that depend on the "Network is available" flag don't work and are grayed out, but the stuff that doesn't use that flag, like connecting to the mothership and network tests work fine.

When my Roamio comes out of standby, I can alway tell when I will get the C133 errors and the grayed out UI. If the Waking Up goes real quick, I know the network check has failed. If it takes a few seconds, then everything works fine.

This started happening with 20.7.4 and never happened to me before that.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

JonR said:


> I checked and it is on "Low". Does your Bolt perform correctly if you turn Power Saving off (Manual)?


I haven't tested that yet, just assume it would be fine.

I use this TiVo so infrequently that I'd rather keep Power Saving "on" and do the UI refresh.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sfhub said:


> I think there is a race condition with the check for Internet connectivity and the restarting of the network.


It would be strange that the network is part of the power saving function at all. It that a Bolt feature? I don't use power saving, but many do and yours is the first I've heard of the problem you are having. I don't doubt your observations, but it still seems strange.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> It would be strange that the network is part of the power saving function at all. It that a Bolt feature? I don't use power saving, but many do and yours is the first I've heard of the problem you are having. I don't doubt your observations, but it still seems strange.


People are reporting this problem on Roamios and Bolts after getting 20.7.4.

Along with the C133 error, there's also reports of the loss of sorting options and progress bars in folders.

A UI refresh fixes all of them.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

JonR said:


> Started Roamio this morning with no error message until I tried to connect to the Premise unit upstairs and it was grayed out and when I tried to connect to it I received the error code "C130" Not Connected to the Internet" and it returned to Tivo Central with the error message.
> 
> I initiated a "UI" refresh and everything is back to normal. I can then connect to the Premier without issue.
> 
> ...


Happens all the time. Easy fix Just like you did.


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

JACKASTOR said:


> Happens all the time. Easy fix Just like you did.


Please report issue to Tivo so they're aware this issue is a result of the recent software update.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> People are reporting this problem on Roamios and Bolts after getting 20.7.4.
> 
> Along with the C133 error, there's also reports of the loss of sorting options and progress bars in folders.
> 
> A UI refresh fixes all of them.


A "UI Refresh" being this process...?



BobCamp1 said:


> A GUI refresh, which I did for the first time last night in my 16 years as a Tivo customer, is simple:
> 
> Go to the Tivo Central screen.
> Press thumbs down-thumbs up-play-play.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Also missing: option to add one hour to live programs. No longer can you stop the message. Still in the old SD menus on a Premiere with 20.7.4.RC2..


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> A "UI Refresh" being this process...?
> 
> ​


Yes.....


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> It would be strange that the network is part of the power saving function at all. It that a Bolt feature? I don't use power saving, but many do and yours is the first I've heard of the problem you are having. I don't doubt your observations, but it still seems strange.


I don't think the network interface is getting turned off in standby (I'm pretty sure it isn't as the interface light is still on), but some aspect of what the TiVo UI is checking for regarding network seems to be not ready coming out of standby.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cherry ghost said:


> A UI refresh fixes all of them.


If you have a "standby" button on your remote, you might want to see if that also fixes things.

When I get the C133 coming out of standby, I can put the unit back into standby and wake it up 10 seconds later, and the network not available/C133 problem goes away. If you have a standby button on the remote (and this works for the other issues mentioned), it would be slightly less presses than the UI restart sequence.


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

sfhub said:


> If you have a "standby" button on your remote, you might want to see if that also fixes things.
> 
> When I get the C133 coming out of standby, I can put the unit back into standby and wake it up 10 seconds later, and the network not available/C133 problem goes away. If you have a standby button on the remote (and this works for the other issues mentioned), it would be slightly less presses than the UI restart sequence.


No"Standby" button on Roamio remote therefore it's about the same number of button pushes, "refreshing" the UI is faster.

John


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Do Kickstart codes still work with 20.7.4? I'm not having any luck.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

JonR said:


> No"Standby" button on Roamio remote therefore it's about the same number of button pushes, "refreshing" the UI is faster.


I don't have one on my TiVo remote, but my universal remote does, so that is what I've been using.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> Do Kickstart codes still work with 20.7.4? I'm not having any luck.


SPS 9 S and SPS Pause S work for me on Roamio OTA and Roamio Pro during playback of recording. Mini as usual SPS 9 S works, but SPS Pause S probably needs to go through KMTTG.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sfhub said:


> SPS 9 S and SPS Pause S work for me on Roamio OTA and Roamio Pro during playback of recording. Mini as usual SPS 9 S works, but SPS Pause S probably needs to go through KMTTG.


Thanks, but those are not kickstart codes. I think they are called hidden codes.

Miscellaneous Services from WeaKnees.com


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> Thanks, but those are not kickstart codes. I think they are called hidden codes.


Doh, brain fart. Sorry.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

JonR said:


> Please report issue to Tivo so they're aware this issue is a result of the recent software update.


But it isn't due to the software update. It happens from time to time to all of us..


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sfhub said:


> Doh, brain fart. Sorry.


No problem. Here is your list:
New Almost Complete TiVo Codes List


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

JonR said:


> Started Roamio this morning with no error message until I tried to connect to the Premise unit upstairs and it was grayed out and when I tried to connect to it I received the error code "C130" Not Connected to the Internet" and it returned to Tivo Central with the error message.
> 
> I initiated a "UI" refresh and everything is back to normal. I can then connect to the Premier without issue.
> 
> ...





JACKASTOR said:


> Happens all the time. Easy fix Just like you did.





JonR said:


> Please report issue to Tivo so they're aware this issue is a result of the recent software update.





JACKASTOR said:


> But it isn't due to the software update. It happens from time to time to all of us..


I have never had a C130 error before 20.7.4. Now I get it every time my Bolt comes out of Standby.


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> I have never had a C130 error before 20.7.4. Now I get it every time my Bolt comes out of Standby.


Same here, never heard of a C130 error until 20.7.4 on my Roamio, now I have it every morning!


----------



## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

JACKASTOR said:


> But it isn't due to the software update. It happens from time to time to all of us..


This is called an "assumption". Not a fact. The C130 errors should not happen period. They are symptoms. There is more than one reason for that symptom to occur - and it's absolutely possible that the 20.7.4 release created a defect which generates them.


----------



## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

Anyone else missing *groups* from My Shows on their Roamio Pro? I've also noticed that *OnePass Options *(the Record, Channel, Get in HD, etc. section) is also once again called *OnePass Options *instead of whatever it was before.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

JACKASTOR said:


> But it isn't due to the software update. It happens from time to time to all of us..


I've never had to perform the GUI refresh trick until 20.7.4. Now I've performed it four times in less than a week.
Something is pretty broken.

I cannot take credit for the trick, somebody else in this forum reminded me of it and I thought, "why not?" I had the same reaction.

I'm not getting those C130 errors. Just skip and progress icons disappearing. I'm using MoCA with FIOS. At least the skip data itself was present throughout the weekend.


----------



## JonR (May 1, 2004)

BobCamp1 said:


> I've never had to perform the GUI refresh trick until 20.7.4. Now I've performed it four times in less than a week.
> Something is pretty broken.


Welcome to 20.7.4 RC2, turn on, GUI refresh, proceed until tomorrow.

This is now our new startup procedure, hope the average user knows how to refresh the GUI!


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

JandS said:


> _Moved from 20.7.2 has arrived thread, thank you to thread starter]_
> 
> Arrrrrgh! Here's a VERY ANNOYING thing that changed after the two reboots yesterday/today. Roamio Plus, 6 tuner, cable. Have been on 20.7.4RC2 for a couple of weeks.
> 
> ...





leswar said:


> It's back! Lost buffer on channel that has an upcoming recording which I 'm watching.
> As soon as the recording starts the buffer disappears and jumps to the recording in progress, losing
> ability to watch the previous program.


Just realized this was happening to me too, very sad.

I posted this earlier but realized it was in the premier subsection, so posting here as its more appropriate:

I record all the local news casts and say if I start watching the 5pm newscast at 545 from the beginning, pulling directly from the live tuner recording. Previously once 6pm came along, I'd see the info bar pop up at the bottom briefly and then disappear. But my watched 5-6pm newscast would continue to play undisturbed. Then once I hit 6pm, my Tivo would continue playing directly into the 6pm hour from the beginning.

Now once 6pm hits, if I started from the live buffer to watch the 5-6pm news, I lose where I'm at and am immediately ejected into live tv, watching the 6pm newscast.

I acknowledge if I started my 5pm newscast from "my shows" it would play the full recording and end. But I liked the fact that if I did it the old way from live tv, it'd continue to play live tv, just going into the next program when the next timeslot hit.

I hope they restore this feature (haven't tried Hydra yet so I have no idea how it behaves in this scenario).


----------



## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

blacknoi said:


> Just realized this was happening to me too, very sad.
> 
> I posted this earlier but realized it was in the premier subsection, so posting here as its more appropriate:
> 
> ...


It still is broken in Hydra. Every night I watch shows behind on the buffer as well. It's really messing me up


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

Noelmel said:


> It still is broken in Hydra. Every night I watch shows behind on the buffer as well. It's really messing me up


Ugh.

Well here's to hoping, really really really hoping.... they fix it in both interfaces then.

Its basically makes watching a show from the live buffer useless if I know another upcoming recording is going to start. I will have to retrain myself to use "my shows" to start watching a recording in progress to avoid this .... feature?

And for watching an unrecorded program via the live buffer? Forget it, as you may lose what you are watching from the live buffer entirely.


----------



## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

Hope they fix it. As a workaround if you are watching the news on the same channel, maybe you could record the 5PM news, with a 60 minute pad, and keep at most set to 1.


----------



## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

It doesn't even matter if the next show is recording or not. It still jumps to live and you can't rewind back. It's crazy annoying


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

I got my very first C130 error yesterday. And I have to reset the UI on a daily basis to get the progress bars and skip icons to come back. That happens immediately after I get stuck in My Shows, where only the left arrow does anything (can't select or play anything until I repeatedly hit left arrow).

With all this talk about Hydra, please fix the older UI. It's broken.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

After three days, I can confirm that standby mode is part of the problem. If you disable power savings and never put the Tivo in standby, then 20.7.4 is stable using the Gen3 GUI. It still has that live buffer/start of recording glitch, but I don't have to reboot the GUI every day. 

It might also explain the Mini issues in Hydra, as Minis are always entering standby when unused and there is no way to turn that off.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> After three days, I can confirm that standby mode is part of the problem. If you disable power savings and never put the Tivo in standby, then 20.7.4 is stable using the Gen3 GUI. It still has that live buffer/start of recording glitch, but I don't have to reboot the GUI every day.


This had been posted in several of the other threads regarding specific issues after the 20.7.4 update, but definitely good to post it here. We don't use power savings/standby mode so we've not seen any of the issues reported.

Scott


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

HerronScott said:


> We don't use power savings/standby mode so we've not seen any of the issues reported.
> 
> Scott


I do not even understand what the point of Power Saving and Standby is on a host tivo to begin with...


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

samccfl99 said:


> I do not even understand what the point of *Power Saving *and Standby is on a host tivo to begin with...


Besides the obvious answer implicit in the term "Power Saving", Standby will avoid EAS messages being recorded. (That happens with some EAS systems and not others.) It also shuts off the HDMI signal which is helpful for some HDMI switches.

Weren't you the guy that couldn't understand why anyone would want commercial skip?


----------



## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

BobCamp1 said:


> If you disable power savings and never put the Tivo in standby, then 20.7.4 is stable using the Gen3 GUI.


Are you saying that both power savings = on and standby are required? I always put my TiVo into standby, but I could switch my power savings mode to Off instead of Low.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Power saving & Standby relationship -> 20.4.6 issue?

I use Standby on my Mini only. My EAS tests only happen in the early morning.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

randian said:


> Are you saying that both power savings = on and standby are required? I always put my TiVo into standby, but I could switch my power savings mode to Off instead of Low.


Turn off power savings and don't put it in standby.

Scott


----------



## JandS (Oct 1, 2010)

Yay, the back-to-back recording Bump-Forward to next recording has been fixed, our last service connection was Sun, Nov 12, 4am PDT, no apparent change in version info.

20.7.4 has arrived!


----------



## philco782 (Sep 28, 2014)

Curious, why would a fix not increment the version number in some way? Another curiosity, why is "RC2" in my version string? RC typically is an acronym for Release Candidate. Is it because I am signed up for early-adoption updates, or did everybody get pushed out a "candidate" build as if it was a stable build?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

philco782 said:


> Curious, why would a fix not increment the version number in some way? Another curiosity, why is "RC2" in my version string? RC typically is an acronym for Release Candidate. Is it because I am signed up for early-adoption updates, or did everybody get pushed out a "candidate" build as if it was a stable build?


TiVo has some strange habits. I never have figured out why they leave the RC on released software. But it has been that way for a while. Although using the phrase "stable build" is funny. You can bookmark this location -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information since even though software will change, TiVo always uses that web page for its "release notes". Also, since that page has temporary content, you should print out the contents if you want to keep a copy. It has a printable version link.

I am still waiting for a release notes update for Hydra. (21.7.2)


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

philco782 said:


> Curious, why would a fix not increment the version number in some way? Another curiosity, why is "RC2" in my version string? RC typically is an acronym for Release Candidate. Is it because I am signed up for early-adoption updates, or did everybody get pushed out a "candidate" build as if it was a stable build?


Once our Configuration Management department rebuilt the software just to change the version number to a released version, but somehow also broke remote software update in that new build. So once customers put that software on they couldn't get any more updates. Ever. That was a royal pain in the ....

Basically, keeping the "RC" in the version number falls under "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Also, since that page has temporary content, you should print out the contents if you want to keep a copy. It has a printable version link.
> 
> I am still waiting for a release notes update for Hydra. (21.7.2)


I'm kinda surprised TCF hasn't created a thread or forum for saving the release notes info, given the transient nature of TiVo's page.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I'm kinda surprised TCF hasn't created a thread or forum for saving the release notes info, given the transient nature of TiVo's page.


I like that idea. Now THAT shouldn't have a 50% rejection rate.


----------



## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

JandS said:


> Yay, the back-to-back recording Bump-Forward to next recording has been fixed, our last service connection was Sun, Nov 12, 4am PDT, no apparent change in version info.
> 
> 20.7.4 has arrived!


Not for me on Hydra.... happened to me all last night still


----------



## philco782 (Sep 28, 2014)

Noelmel said:


> Not for me on Hydra.... happened to me all last night still


Not for me either... happened to me 5 minutes ago...


----------



## avaddict (Nov 23, 2014)

JandS said:


> _Moved from 20.7.2 has arrived thread, thank you to thread starter]_
> Usually we switch over from another channel (live TV) to the tuner with the 6pm national live, e.g. at 6:10pm or something like that. Back up to start, watch national, sometimes pausing multiple times. This pause occasionally lasts up to, say, 6:40pm. Because it was recorded, the paused program has =always= stayed on-screen, so when the 6:30 local comes on, it takes another tuner to record in the background. The pause continues for a long time (never tested how long, but 30-40 minutes at least, maybe much longer). When we got through the national then it would seamlessly play the 6:30pm local. Occasionally we would have to rewind back to the beginning, but usually not.
> 
> Tonight, at precisely 6:30, while the 6pm national was paused at the 6:20 mark -- bammo -- the "tuner focus" what is basically liveTV being recorded, switched to the 6:30pm local -- bye-bye paused national. And the national program in the buffer didn't have any indicator for "resume play", it started at the beginning, at the 6pm mark.


This problem continues to disrupt all of our User experiences.

Is it possible that community members here would be interested in crowd sourcing a bug reporting movement to call Tivo and report this buffer bug specifically. How many folks could we get to actually call?

Could it possible be enough to move the needle? It could be that this is such a niche product that we could never get the volume of calls up to a noticeable level.

Just last week on Power Lunch or such, just after Rovi/Tivo reported results, CNBC's Mike Santoli made a comment (and I paraphrase) that the Tivo shelf life has disappeared from the marketplace compared to ten years ago. Stating literally that is just a niche product, now.

I wish and hope Tivo will survive in this competitive landscape as it was my 2nd favorite product ever with my macOS computer being the first.

Unfortunately, my family cannot financially support a company that lets a crushing buffer bug that destroys product usability to sit and destroy every Users experience for months on end.

That's just pure customer callousness. No company should be rewarded for this level of customer negligence.


----------



## philco782 (Sep 28, 2014)

avaddict said:


> This problem continues to disrupt all of our User experiences.
> 
> .....
> 
> Unfortunately, my family cannot financially support a company that lets a crushing buffer bug that destroys product usability to sit and destroy every Users experience for months on end.



Seriously, just like Tivo used to have an online web form you could submit to be an early adopter of future versions of the software, why couldn't they produce a similar type of form that would revert our boxes to the previous release without this bug?

I will happily forego whatever "improvement" that might exist in 20.7.4, and go back to 20.7.2, so I can enjoy my television watching experience without this bug while Tivo ever-so-slowly gets their **** together.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

avaddict said:


> This problem continues to disrupt all of our User experiences.
> 
> Is it possible that community members here would be interested in crowd sourcing a bug reporting movement to call Tivo and report this buffer bug specifically. How many folks could we get to actually call?
> 
> ...


My guess is that most people have figured out that watching TV via a buffer will end up pi**ing you off sooner or latter and stopped doing it. Ether setup records or hit the record button, or if you just like being pi**ed off just keep trying to watching TV via a buffer. I learned my lesson years ago, and finally just stopped, much happier since then.

Stand alone TiVos have always been a niche product and always will be, they have never reach much more than 1% market penetration (been in more than 1% of the US households with a TV) and are below that now.


----------



## avaddict (Nov 23, 2014)

atmuscarella said:


> My guess is that most people have figured out that watching TV via a buffer will end up pi**ing you off sooner or latter and stopped doing it. Ether setup records or hit the record button, or if you just like being pi**ed off just keep trying to watching TV via a buffer. I learned my lesson years ago, and finally just stopped, much happier since then.


Thanks for sharing your opinion about most people. I guess you meant for your words to come across as condescending because that is how I interpreted them.

I do not know why folks need to express themselves this way. Perhaps it creates a temporary sensation of righteousness and intelligence or something. I cannot imagine that feeling lasting until tomorrow, though. So why bother?

Do other members insult you for the features of the Tivo that you appreciate the product for? I hope you do not let them do that.

FYI, a User can be watching a show that was set to record on a previous day, and yet can still be bumped out of the buffer based on specific conditions. Maybe you missed that?

Will you please vote on my poll as a Tivo User that cannot tell the difference since the upgrade? Thank you.

Here is a link to my poll for your convenience.

Was your Tivo User Experience negatively affected by the [recent 20.7.4] update?


----------



## avaddict (Nov 23, 2014)

philco782 said:


> Seriously, just like Tivo used to have an online web form you could submit to be an early adopter of future versions of the software, why couldn't they produce a similar type of form that would revert our boxes to the previous release without this bug?
> 
> I will happily forego whatever "improvement" that might exist in 20.7.4, and go back to 20.7.2, so I can enjoy my television watching experience without this bug while Tivo ever-so-slowly gets their **** together.


That's a killer idea. I would like to choose the build that works best for me, too. Can you imagine Apple or Google upgrading your phone without your permission? That would be Wack! Cats and dogs playing again, for sure.


----------



## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

I watch almost everything exclusively on live buffer but the shows are still recording while I do it. This bug has been killing me. Either way in the other thread multiple people have said the R9 update fixes this so hopefully we will all get it this week


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

avaddict said:


> Thanks for sharing your opinion about most people. I guess you meant for your words to come across as condescending because that is how I interpreted them.
> 
> I do not know why folks need to express themselves this way. Perhaps it creates a temporary sensation of righteousness and intelligence or something. I cannot imagine that feeling lasting until tomorrow, though. So why bother?
> 
> ...


Not intended to be condescending just honesty based on experience. We have had people complaining about getting burned by using the buffer to watch TV for years, I was one that complained once. You can take it any way you want but if you watch TV out of the buffer you will get burned sooner or later even if TiVo fixes this current issue. It took me a half dozen or so times of loosing what I was watching (over an extended period of time) to come to the fact that there is a simple solution, just hit record and any issues with buffer dumping go away.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I've been wondering (hoping really) if the method outlined to revert back from Hydra --> 20.7.4 software would work if you are on 20.7.4 and want to revert to 20.7.2? 20.7.4 has these horrible colors and I would be happy to stay on 20.7.2 going forwards. I know, wishful thinking, but not knowing exactly what the revert mechanism does there is perhaps a faint possibility it may do something. Of course not something I'm willing to try with any of my TiVos, but would be curious for someone with a TiVo to spare they don't really care about.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

moyekj said:


> I've been wondering (hoping really) if the method outlined to revert back from Hydra --> 20.7.4 software would work if you are on 20.7.4 and want to revert to 20.7.2? 20.7.4 has these horrible colors and I would be happy to stay on 20.7.2 going forwards. I know, wishful thinking, but not knowing exactly what the revert mechanism does there is perhaps a faint possibility it may do something. Of course not something I'm willing to try with any of my TiVos, but would be curious for someone with a TiVo to spare they don't really care about.


The reversion back from Hydra takes you to 20.7.4. I also wonder if I try the same procedure on 20.7.4 if it would drop me to 20.7.2, but I'm not sure if I want to waste several hours if it doesn't. I guess it depends if 20.7.2 is on the TiVo servers and accessible by anyone. And, what also might make it a waste, won't a box on 20.7.2 automatically upgrade on its next service connection?


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> I guess it depends if 20.7.2 is on the TiVo servers and accessible by anyone. And, what also might make it a waste, won't a box on 20.7.2 automatically upgrade on its next service connection?


That's part of the mechanism I don't know about. When you revert from Hydra-->20.7.4 it's supposed to be permanent - some kind of TSN related setting for that TiVo's account, though I saw 1 posting from someone saying they were actually reverted to Hydra after a couple of weeks, but that's probably an anomaly.
Most likely the reversion is specific to Hydra only, but I was just curious what would happen if someone with 20.7.4 tried it. But most likely a useless exercise as you mention.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I thought the color changes were on 20.7.2?


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> I thought the color changes were on 20.7.2?


That is what I thought also but I certainly could be wrong.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

cherry ghost said:


> I thought the color changes were on 20.7.2?


I think that's correct. This thread -> R.I.P. Tivo, The update that killed the Tivo User experience seems to start at 20.7.2, while 20.7.4 didn't roll out until the end of September.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

At least for my Roamio Pro and 2 series 4 units the update before this last one (which I think was 20.7.2) had the different colors. The Bolt series have had new color scheme for much longer, so 20.7.4 visually seemed mostly designed to catch up to that.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Here's the 20.7.2 thread where people first started complaining about the color change.

20.7.2 has arrived!

Also

20.7.2.RC22 Update - OMG ugly


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

You're right, I guess the color change was in 20.7.2.


----------

