# FAQ: How does the Feb 2009 digital over-the-air transition affect my Tivo?



## Stephen Tu

In February 2009, major over-the-air (OTA) television broadcast stations, which are currently broadcasting both digital and analog signals, will be required to shut off their analog transmissions by the FCC. (Small low-power and "translator" stations are exempt). Many people are asking how this will affect their Tivo. This post will address these issues:

*Am I affected?*
The only people _directly_ affected by the transition are those who receive some or all TV programming OTA using a TV antenna. Satellite users who receive programming solely through the dish will not be affected. Cable users who feed their Tivos with a digital cable box are not affected.

Analog cable users who feed their Tivos directly with the cable are not directly affected by the OTA transition itself, however they may be affected by a cable company's _independent_ decision to go all-digital, which can be before or after the OTA transition, and may not happen for many years in some areas. Cable companies are _not_ required to shut off analog, but they may do so for their own business reasons (digital takes less space than analog, giving more room for HD channels, internet, phone services). Cable companies in some areas (Alaska, parts of Chicago, Verizon FiOS, others) have already gone or announced plans to go all-digital. Others will likely do so as well, on their own time table, but will always notify you in advance of this happening. Cable companies that maintain analog services and don't require people to obtain digital boxes will either convert local digital feeds to analog for their analog customers or pass on analog feeds provided by the station themselves via land lines, at least until February 2012.

*I use OTA on a series 2 or earlier Tivo. What are my options?*
- You can buy a TivoHD or Series 3.
- You can obtain some other digital OTA compatible recording solution (OTA DVR from another manufacturer, DVD recorder with digital tuner, computer based recording devices) 
- You can get a digital OTA tuner, aka converter box. The government is offering $40 coupons toward the purchase of these boxes at www.dtv2009.gov. The coupons are only usable with certain low cost, low featured, "coupon eligible converter boxes" (CECB), that only provide standard output, not high-definition. You can also buy more expensive boxes that support HD but won't be able to use the coupon.

Tivo announced a software update for summer 2008 that will allow single tuner series 2 models, with the exception of the briefly produced TCD542xxx model, to control some of these boxes. See a list of supported CECBs posted by TivoJerry. Series 1 apparently will not be upgraded, but series 1 owners will get a TivoHD upgrade offer, enter your service number on this page. Dual tuner series 2 Tivos do not have OTA support and will not have this functionality added. This software, version 9.3.1, is now available upon request. To get on the priority list to receive this update, sign up on this page.

* I use analog cable on a series 2 or earlier Tivo. My provider sent me a letter indicating that they are going all-digital, cutting off analog service. What are my options?*
- You can buy a TivoHD or Series 3, and obtain Cablecard(s) from your provider.
- Rent the provider's DVR
- Get a digital cable box from the provider, rerun guided setup, use "cable with a box". Series 2 dual tuner boxes will only be able to use a single tuner.

* I don't fall into either of the above categories. What do I do?*
Relax, nothing changes for you. Wait until your cable provider sends you a letter indicating they are going all digital, or until you decide to upgrade yourself to HD.

Edit log:
5-10-08: Reflect Tivo's announcement of official support for converters.
8-19-08: Link to supported CECBs, fix broken links, clarify S1 options.
8-27-08: Link to priority request page for 9.3.1 software


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## dylanemcgregor

Let me be the first to say thanks for the excellent and useful post.


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## phox_mulder

My coupons expire at the end of June.
TiVo needs to announce support really quick, not necessarily support them yet, but announce which models they will be supporting.

My daughter will be quite upset when she can't record Idol next year.

Maybe the S2 will die before then and I'll have to get her a TiVoHD.


phox


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## Manchot

I agree, Phox. My coupons expire in mid-July, and I'd like to know before then whether Tivo will officially support any converter boxes or not; if they do, I need to know which one to buy. They don't actually need to provide the support until February of next year, but I'll be rather miffed if I lose $80 worth of coupons because they sat on their hands for six months. Tivo representatives, please take note.


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## lastdeadcat

Excellent post. All the options are clear and concise. This is an excellent job of de-linking two events that seem to get confused in people's minds. All digital cable and all digital OTA are different issues. They get blurred by many people. They are simular, but very different. 

The digital cable issue probably has the more impact because more TV watchers use cable than OTA, but for OTA watchers, their issue has a much bigger impact.

For cable users, the cable company will (ha!) look after them, but OTA users have to take care of themselves.


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## Budget_HT

I thought it was strange to see Stephen asking this question (before I entered the thread to read it).

Once I saw his post I realized what a service he as provided here for a confusing set of events that we will all be seeing in the near term.

Thanks Stephen for an accurate and easy-to-understand description of what to expect.

It would be a great public service if you shared this somehow with the press/media. Left to their own resources, they will likely deliver more confusion than clarity.


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## JimSpence

Since this question has been raised many times, I think this FAQ thread should become a sticky.


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## jrm01

Budget_HT said:


> It would be a great public service if you shared this somehow with the press/media. Left to their own resources, they will likely deliver more confusion than clarity.


The confusion is out there. I have had letters-to-the-editor published in two newspapers chastising them for their confusing reports. I even sent one to HT Magazine and got into an e-mail dialogue with one of their writers who thought that the news coverage was fully explanatory.

I work at BB part-time. I have had at least 20 customers come in over the past week to buy a converter box, only to find that the vast majority of them didn't need one (they were using cable).

I have likened this to Y2K all over again. People are probably buying new toasters fearing that their old one won't work on Feb. 18th, 2009.


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## GoHokies!

Very well done post.

You'll (Stephen) probably have better luck if you PM a mod to get it stickied - I concur this needs to be up there though. (and the Fall 2006 price change FAQ can probably go).


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## ZeoTiVo

I reported the original Post...

as being an excellent FAQ that does indeed need to be stickied :up:


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## SkeeterTV

Fantastic post... this should be stickied.


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## classicsat

phox_mulder said:


> My coupons expire at the end of June.
> TiVo needs to announce support really quick, not necessarily support them yet, but announce which models they will be supporting.


Keep in mind, the underlying support framework for most boxes are mostly identical, the only change required being IR codes themeselves.

With that, I'd get a major brand box, perhaps one that has partial support already. That way, there is a better chance of proper IR codes to be loaded, should TiVo choose to support OTA tuners.

Should TiVo elect not to support digital OTA, then you at least could use the existing unsupport to record from digital OTA.


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## jklinken

This is a great post and exactly what I needed to know since I just received the Verizon letter yesterday &#8211; they are switching Fios to all digital here in Maryland on July 21 2008. I ordered a digital adapter from them with the hope that it will work with my Tivo series 2, which I use for lower analog channels only. After reading this post, I didn&#8217;t even realize that my Tivo Series 2 could control a cable box. To satisfy my own curiosity, I would really like to know how the Tivo does this and if I need any special connections between the Tivo and the digital adapter, or do I just continue to use coax to hook everything up. Can anyone enlighten me?


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## ZeoTiVo

jklinken said:


> This is a great post and exactly what I needed to know since I just received the Verizon letter yesterday  they are switching Fios to all digital here in Maryland on July 21 2008. I ordered a digital adapter from them with the hope that it will work with my Tivo series 2, which I use for lower analog channels only. After reading this post, I didnt even realize that my Tivo Series 2 could control a cable box. To satisfy my own curiosity, I would really like to know how the Tivo does this and if I need any special connections between the Tivo and the digital adapter, or do I just continue to use coax to hook everything up. Can anyone enlighten me?


This is really a faq on OTA conversion to digital. Best to not have a bunch of posts on how to hook up what is essentially a cable box.

I would suugest you start a new thread in this coffeehouse forum with a subject like "how to use digital adapter with FIOS and Series 2" and you will get lots of good info in such a thread.


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## hddude55

When I purchased two series2 dual tuner Tivos in December 2007 as Christmas presents for my two daughters it would have been nice if someone at TiVo, Inc. had been honest enough to warn people that the machines would revert to single tuner machines in a mere year. Between this dishonesty and the more than six months of disappearing channels problems with Series 3 SA cable cards, I think it's safe to say I will never spend another cent on a TiVo product but will continue to spread the word so others won't be fleeced. Good customer service might result in a single customer sharing that experience with a couple others but bad customer service ensures the company of losing significant business. Get a clue, TiVo, Inc.


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## jrm01

hddude55 said:


> When I purchased two series2 dual tuner Tivos in December 2007 as Christmas presents for my two daughters it would have been nice if someone at TiVo, Inc. had been honest enough to warn people that the machines would revert to single tuner machines in a mere year. Between this dishonesty and the more than six months of disappearing channels problems with Series 3 SA cable cards, I think it's safe to say I will never spend another cent on a TiVo product but will continue to spread the word so others won't be fleeced. Good customer service might result in a single customer sharing that experience with a couple others but bad customer service ensures the company of losing significant business. Get a clue, TiVo, Inc.


If you purchased your Tivo in December 2007 it does not have antenna capability, only cable or satellite. Therefore, none of this will affect you, and there was no dishonesty.


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## hddude55

jrm01 said:


> If you purchased your Tivo in December 2007 it does not have antenna capability, only cable or satellite. Therefore, none of this will affect you, and there was no dishonesty.


 "Experts" have been posting here that the dual tuner series2 TiVos like the two I have hooked to Cox Cable will cease to work as dual tuner units after the conversion in 2009 and will only work as single tuner units unless Cox keeps sending an analog signal. If they provide an analog signal -- until 2012 -- I'm OK but I and others who purchased S2 boxes in the past year or so should have been forewarned that there were problems on the horizon.


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## bicker

Nothing is changing with the S2DTs. As long as you have an unencrypted analog signal coming into your home, as it was designed for, it will continue to work as it always has. Any changes are changes external to TiVo, and therefore the obligation for advance notification rests squarely on the initiator of those changes, i.e., the cable company. And that obligation is very clearly spelled out by the franchising authority. If you don't like the amount of notice they are required to give you, complain to your franchising authority. *That's *where the responsibility rests.


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## Stephen Tu

> "Experts" have been posting here that the dual tuner series2 TiVos like the two I have hooked to Cox Cable will cease to work as dual tuner units after the conversion in 2009


They have? I think you probably misinterpreted. The statement is that dual tuner Tivos effectively become single tuner *if* your cable company decides to go all digital. But I don't think anyone stated that Cox was going all digital, in fact Cox has made statements saying they will maintain analog service for at least 3 years after the OTA transition if not longer.

Also S2 DTs have always had disclaimers that they were dual tuner only for basic cable or basic cable + digital, not two digital channels.


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## jtlytle

2 weeks ago, I called TiVo tech and reported that my S2 single tuner stopped working. I got it replaced with dual tuner S2 and they warning me that it will NOT be a dual tuner once the digital started. All S2 DT will become D2 single tuner.


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## Stephen Tu

Don't believe random technical support people from any company, they often are confused and will make statements that partially or wholly false. The only S2 DT users that will effectively lose a tuner are those whose cable companies are going all digital, like Verizon FiOs. Only a small minority of cable users are going to be affected by this in the near future.


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## hddude55

Stephen Tu said:


> They have? I think you probably misinterpreted. The statement is that dual tuner Tivos effectively become single tuner *if* your cable company decides to go all digital. But I don't think anyone stated that Cox was going all digital, in fact Cox has made statements saying they will maintain analog service for at least 3 years after the OTA transition if not longer.
> 
> Also S2 DTs have always had disclaimers that they were dual tuner only for basic cable or basic cable + digital, not two digital channels.


Nice quote taken out of context. Finish reading my post in which I essentially said exactly what you said about the possibility of 2012 being the cut-off date. But unlike Engadget who apparently believes Cox has made some sort of blood oath, I will believe 2012 is the cut-off when it happens. Cox could change its corporate mind before then.

As for all of you guys who oddly enough seem to always stand up for TiVo, Inc. no matter what they pull, I still think they should have been up front when they were creating all of those "too good to be true deals" for S2 DT units around Xmastime 2007. But of course if they had told us dumb consumers that we'd have paperweights either in 2009 or 2012 we might have left those soon to be obsolete machines sit unsold on the shelves.


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## Stephen Tu

Resorting to gross exaggerations isn't really persuasive.
For one thing, single tuner is not equivalent to "paperweight". Some of us got by quite nicely on single tuner Tivos for many years before dual tuner even existed.

Also, the way your posts are worded, most would read them as implying that most cable companies will go all digital and that retaining analog would be the exceptional case, while in reality most companies will be retaining analog for some years at least & only a small minority will be going all digital.

Read http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6533127
Excerpt:


> Cox, for one, will continue to offer analog channels for the foreseeable future, director of media relations David Grabert said. We havent suggested a particular year when wed cut off analog.
> 
> He added: For us, its a competitive differentiator. The ability to have extra outlets and just plug-and-play with regular TVs is a strong advantage for us over satellite or telco TV.


So you are blaming solely Tivo for something that is really the cable company's decision, and in all likelihood isn't happening to you or your daughters anyway! Posters here do not all knee-jerk defend Tivo no matter what, they aren't perfect, but we recognize the difference between legitimate and illegitimate gripes.


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## bicker

Not everything that is to your disadvantage necessarily needs to be someone else's fault.


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## ZeoTiVo

hddude55 said:


> Get a clue, TiVo, Inc.


in the get a clue departmnet - this is a FAQ for *information on the OTA switch to digital* if you would like to start a thread or FAQ on cable switching to digital then _start a new thread_ but arguing about cable here just makes everyone involved look clueless.


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## TiVoPony

Hi all,

As I'd previously mentioned, we're working on a solution for the antenna digital converter boxes required for next February 17 (if you're using antenna as an input).

We're now recruiting people to participate in a beta program for this software. At this point we're identifying people who would like to participate, even though the beta has not begun quite yet. If you'd like to nominate yourself, visit http://www.tivo.com/beta and fill out the beta tester application form you'll find there (there are a couple of new questions in the test platforms section - do you have a digital converter box & do you intend to get a digital converter box).

As far as support for specific makes and models of converters, we're evaluating them as they come onto the market, but as we're still actively developing this code I don't have a specific list I can share. I can say that we intend to capture IR codes from as many boxes as we can, and have established a system very similar to how we have supported IR control for various cable and satellite boxes over the years. Basically, most boxes should work fine, but there will always be some weird box that doesn't behave (just as with satellite or cable). If you'd like to get in early and be ahead of the curve, sign up for the beta! 

And again, if you're using cable or satellite, this doesn't affect you at all. If you have a Series3 or TiVo HD you're not impacted. And if you've purchased a standard definition DVR recently, they have not had antenna support (per FCC requirements) and will not have antenna support (analog or digital). No changes here either.

Thanks,
Pony


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## panictivo

TiVoPony, are you talking about a solution for Series 2 only?

The TiVo Support web page on DTV implies that there will be no software update for Series 1.


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## magnus

I don't think they'll do a software update for it but I think they might do the workaround that I suggested in a previous thread. It got shot down pretty quickly but for the S1 Tivos... it might make the best sense.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=379790&p=6084791



panictivo said:


> TiVoPony, are you talking about a solution for Series 2 only?
> 
> The TiVo Support web page on DTV implies that there will be no software update for Series 1.


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## classicsat

panictivo said:


> TiVoPony, are you talking about a solution for Series 2 only?


Yes, the current announced update is only for Series 2 models that were made to be antenna compatible.

According to the aforementioned support page, they are considering options, but don't necessarily expect a software update.


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## phox_mulder

My coupons were set to expire next week, so I picked up two converter boxes last night.

Digital Stream DTX9950 from Radio Shack (the only one they had in stock at the store)

Insignia NS-DXA1 from Best Buy, the only one they had in the store.
(I think it's a rebranded (or unbranded) Zenith, from what I've read online)

Hopefully these two models are supported in the upcoming software.

I got two different models in the hope that at least one is easy to setup Tivo-wise.


phox


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## 230

My parents have a series 1 box and use OTA for locals as directv doesnt offer locals, and only 2 local stations are broadcasting digitally. When I told my mom she would have to get a directv DVR and lose her tivo, she was not happy (the tivo can't control directv and a converter box) 

So I boought a HR10-250, we will use the old tivo for analog locals, and the 10-250 for everything else until feb.. It's in their livingroom and they don't care much about getting the MPEG 4 HD, they have that in their theater room. So a happy ending, son finds a way for mom keep her tivo!


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## TiVoPony

phox_mulder said:


> My coupons were set to expire next week, so I picked up two converter boxes last night.
> 
> Digital Stream DTX9950 from Radio Shack (the only one they had in stock at the store)
> 
> Insignia NS-DXA1 from Best Buy, the only one they had in the store.
> (I think it's a rebranded (or unbranded) Zenith, from what I've read online)
> 
> Hopefully these two models are supported in the upcoming software.
> 
> I got two different models in the hope that at least one is easy to setup Tivo-wise.
> 
> phox


The update to support ATSC converter boxes is still in development, so it's too early to say anything definitive. I can share that our testing to date has shown that we likely will not be able to support the Digital Stream DTX9000.

We have not had a Digital Stream DTX9550 in test. I would encourage you to apply for the beta program if you would like to verify this particular model, the more models we can test before launch the better.

Cheers,
Pony


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## barbeedoll

Stephen Tu said:


> In February 2009, major over-the-air (OTA) television broadcast stations, which are currently broadcasting both digital and analog signals, will be required to shut off their analog transmissions by the FCC. (Small low-power and "translator" stations are exempt). Many people are asking how this will affect their Tivo. This post will address these issues:
> 
> *Am I affected?*
> The only people _directly_ affected by the transition are those who receive some or all TV programming OTA using a TV antenna. Satellite users who receive programming solely through the dish will not be affected. Cable users who feed their Tivos with a digital cable box are not affected.
> 
> Analog cable users who feed their Tivos directly with the cable are not directly affected by the OTA transition itself, however they may be affected by a cable company's _independent_ decision to go all-digital, which can be before or after the OTA transition, and may not happen for many years in some areas. Cable companies are _not_ required to shut off analog, but they may do so for their own business reasons (digital takes less space than analog, giving more room for HD channels, internet, phone services). Cable companies in some areas (Alaska, parts of Chicago, Verizon FiOS, others) have already gone or announced plans to go all-digital. Others will likely do so as well, on their own time table, but will always notify you in advance of this happening. Cable companies that maintain analog services and don't require people to obtain digital boxes will either convert local digital feeds to analog for their analog customers or pass on analog feeds provided by the station themselves via land lines, at least until February 2012.
> 
> *I use OTA on a series 2 or earlier Tivo. What are my options?*
> - You can buy a TivoHD or Series 3.
> - You can obtain some other digital OTA compatible recording solution (OTA DVR from another manufacturer, DVD recorder with digital tuner, computer based recording devices)
> - You can get a digital OTA tuner, aka converter box. The government is offering $40 coupons toward the purchase of these boxes at www.dtv2009.gov. The coupons are only usable with certain low cost, low featured, "coupon eligible converter boxes" (CECB), that only provide standard output, not high-definition. You can also buy more expensive boxes that support HD but won't be able to use the coupon. *At this time Tivo software does not officially support any standalone digital OTA tuners*. That means getting guide data & changing the channel on the box may not be possible. Tivo has announced a software update for summer 2008 that will allow single tuner series 2 models, with the exception of the briefly produced TCD542xxx model, to control these boxes. Which specific boxes it will control has not been announced; presumably most commonly available boxes will be supported. Support for series 1 is to be decided. Dual tuner series 2 Tivos do not have OTA support and will not have this functionality added.
> 
> Until then, users have found workarounds to obtain partial support on some of these CECBs, in particular the RCA, Zenith, and Insignia models. See this post by magnus & other posts in that thread for details. The basic idea is to find a converter that responds to the same IR codes as a cable or satellite box, and a cable or satellite lineup whose channel numbers match the digital OTA channels available in your area. If you can find a suitable box, IR code, and lineup, you can record the main digital channels.
> 
> * I use analog cable on a series 2 or earlier Tivo. My provider sent me a letter indicating that they are going all-digital, cutting off analog service. What are my options?*
> - You can buy a TivoHD or Series 3, and obtain Cablecard(s) from your provider.
> - Rent the provider's DVR
> - Get a digital cable box from the provider, rerun guided setup, use "cable with a box". Series 2 dual tuner boxes will only be able to use a single tuner.
> 
> * I don't fall into either of the above categories. What do I do?*
> Relax, nothing changes for you. Wait until your cable provider sends you a letter indicating they are going all digital, or until you decide to upgrade yourself to HD.
> 
> Edit log:
> 5-10-08: Reflect Tivo's announcement of official support for converters.


Thanks for the first post in all of the articles I have seen that specifically answers my questions.

You rock!

Barbeedoll


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## JT-KGY

Pony,

Would you be so kind telling us which boxes will most likely be supported?
My coupons will expire in just a few days (19th)... like to know which one
I should buy very very soon. 

Also, how would using the converter box affect people who use the captions?

Thanks,



TiVoPony said:


> The update to support ATSC converter boxes is still in development, so it's too early to say anything definitive. I can share that our testing to date has shown that we likely will not be able to support the Digital Stream DTX9000.
> 
> We have not had a Digital Stream DTX9550 in test. I would encourage you to apply for the beta program if you would like to verify this particular model, the more models we can test before launch the better.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


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## telcoman

hddude55 said:


> When I purchased two series2 dual tuner Tivos in December 2007 as Christmas presents for my two daughters it would have been nice if someone at TiVo, Inc. had been honest enough to warn people that the machines would revert to single tuner machines in a mere year. Between this dishonesty and the more than six months of disappearing channels problems with Series 3 SA cable cards, I think it's safe to say I will never spend another cent on a TiVo product but will continue to spread the word so others won't be fleeced. Good customer service might result in a single customer sharing that experience with a couple others but bad customer service ensures the company of losing significant business. Get a clue, TiVo, Inc.


Had same issue as you. Called Tivo and they allowed an upgrade to Series 3 for $200 and will transfer the lifetime sub from the series 2 to series 3. Give Tivo a call. They were very nice to me.

Telcoman


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## snedecor

TiVoPony said:


> We have not had a Digital Stream DTX9550 in test. I would encourage you to apply for the beta program if you would like to verify this particular model, the more models we can test before launch the better.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


I signed up for the beta test. I thought I had a good chance, because I have both Series 1 and Series 2 TiVo's and I have two different types of converter boxes. However, I have not been asked to test anything. Rejection is sometimes hard to take.

Maybe I need more breath mints.......


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## PaulaR

I have a Tivo Series 2 with Directv and an old Directv receiver. We just purchased the HD tv's and need to upgrade my receivers. 

Question do I keep my Tivo and hope it will work come February with the HD receiver or do I get Directv HD DVR. I don't want to lose my Tivo if I had a choice. Tivo should offer some type of software updates for these units. I would hate to just get the receiver then had to go to the Directv HD DVR. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## classicsat

The Feb 2009 shutoff is only for major OTA broadcasters. Since you are receiving your TV through a digital box already, you will notice no change whatsoever. TiVos work fine with HD satellite and cable boxes SD output.


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## bicker

classicsat said:


> The Feb 2009 shutoff is only for major OTA broadcasters. Since you are receiving your TV through a digital box already, you will notice no change whatsoever.


(Unless your cable company is using the same date for their own, unrelated, digital transition.)


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## berkshires

Is anyone making a dual tuner OTA receiver that an S2DT might theoretically take advantage of? Might that be a worthwhile product for TiVo itself to offer?

Putting aside the *all*-digital cable conversion issue, to what extent are cable companies going to go *more*-digital directly as a consequence of the analog OTA shutoff?


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## classicsat

No consumer electronics manufacturer is making a consumer grade digital OTA> analog cable system. It would be too costly for the small amount of TiVo customers that would use it.

From a technical standpoint, none will be using the Analog broadcast shutoff to shut off non-broadcast analog channels.

Some providers may choose to use the confusion to discontinue some analog channels though.


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## yunlin12

There are reports that Comcast may be going all digital

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-06/comcast-is-going-all-digital/


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## Budget_HT

yunlin12 said:


> There are reports that Comcast may be going all digital
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-06/comcast-is-going-all-digital/


IMHO, the only question is WHEN they go all digital, not whether they do.


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## classicsat

Cable going digital is not related to the Feb2009 analog cutoff, and will not affect how TiVos work with OTA, which this thread is about.


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## dfarin

magnus said:


> I don't think they'll do a software update for it but I think they might do the workaround that I suggested in a previous thread. It got shot down pretty quickly but for the S1 Tivos... it might make the best sense.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=379790&p=6084791


If you don't want to mess around, work out a deal with TiVo to upgrade, and then donate your TiVo Series 1 unit to your local school's Physical Education Teacher/Athletic Coach. You take the usual tax write off, let them use it's code so they can run set-up to fool it into thinking the Video input is a station, and they can use it to delay the video from an old camcorder at a skill station. After the change, I'll bet it's of limited use with a subscription anyway.

Combined with a TV, VCR, & Camcorder, it allows students/athletes to see themselves on delay. Makes a great teaching/coaching tool. Our diving coach uses one in the pool at every practice. The divers climb out of the pool and watch their dive on a 30 second delay. If one old camcorder burns out, he asks swim team members to find another old one in their closet.

I bought my TiVo with a free year's subscription thinking I would use it that way, but the darn thing was addicting, so I'm keeping it. In fact, I'm looking for a few Series 1 units during this transition period so that I can set them up for use it at our high school. Once I have one set up, our whole staff will want to use it. Only drawback, you can't record that way, but it could if the VCR could be included in the set-up.


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## magnus

Well, you can if you have a S1 that allows for manual recordings.



dfarin said:


> Only drawback, you can't record that way, but it could if the VCR could be included in the set-up.


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## EdH

hddude55 said:


> When I purchased two series2 dual tuner Tivos in December 2007 as Christmas presents for my two daughters it would have been nice if someone at TiVo, Inc. had been honest enough to warn people that the machines would revert to single tuner machines in a mere year. Between this dishonesty and the more than six months of disappearing channels problems with Series 3 SA cable cards, I think it's safe to say I will never spend another cent on a TiVo product but will continue to spread the word so others won't be fleeced. Good customer service might result in a single customer sharing that experience with a couple others but bad customer service ensures the company of losing significant business. Get a clue, TiVo, Inc.


I'm pretty much in the same boat and equally miffed.

I took advantage of the TiVo offfer to upgrade an S1 to a S2/DT and transfer my lifetime. Now it seems one of my two tuners may become useless.

TiVO NEVER warned me of this before I took the upgrade.

Now I'd like to upgrade again to an HD and transfer my lifetime once again. But they won't let me do this.

I think that sucks. I feel misled and misused.

Ed


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## EdH

telcoman said:


> Had same issue as you. Called Tivo and they allowed an upgrade to Series 3 for $200 and will transfer the lifetime sub from the series 2 to series 3. Give Tivo a call. They were very nice to me.
> 
> Telcoman


I tried calling today. My situation is a bit different since I upgraded to S2/D2 late last year AND transferred my lifetime sub.

They say I cannot transfer it again; so I have to either stay with the S2 or upgrade to HD for $200 and buy lifetime again for $300. So my cost is $500 today plus the $300 I paid less than a year ago.

I tried explaining that they didn't disclose possible problems at the time of last year's upgrade but it all fell on deaf ears.


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## bicker

EdH said:


> TiVO NEVER warned me of this before I took the upgrade.


TiVo isn't changing its service or its product whatsoever. It will continue to do what it has always done, just as it has always done. They have complied with all notification laws. Your beef is strictly with the folks who changed the environment within which you device must operate, and the with the folks who set forth the laws for what notification you deserve.


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## classicsat

In their product literature, it does state that Dual Tuners on the S2DT requires analog cable.


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## jlb

Budget_HT said:


> IMHO, the only question is WHEN they go all digital, not whether they do.


This is the only thing that would "change" things for me. I'm "lifeline" with Comcast for $10/mo getting my local HDs along with the analog locals (I have a single M-series card). The change to all digital would thus mean I would be using more space to record the same things (I like having the analog for reality shows that are not shot in HD).

Then again, if it happens sooner, I can more readily get a MyDVR Expander or 1TB WD drive past the WAF.


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## ajwees41

jlb said:


> This is the only thing that would "change" things for me. I'm "lifeline" with Comcast for $10/mo getting my local HDs along with the analog locals (I have a single M-series card). The change to all digital would thus mean I would be using more space to record the same things (I like having the analog for reality shows that are not shot in HD).
> 
> Then again, if it happens sooner, I can more readily get a MyDVR Expander or 1TB WD drive past the WAF.


actually analog takes up more space then digital does.


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## Lurker1

I would like to know if the S2 software update will allow it to control both a satellite box and a digital converter box at the same time. I get channels from both satellite and antenna.


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## Lurker1

Hm. After a bit more searching, I actually found detailed instructions for my specific case. I am impressed. http://www3.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/prm/digital-transition/Satellite_Converter_Instructions.pdf


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## Mikeguy

bicker said:


> TiVo isn't changing its service or its product whatsoever. It will continue to do what it has always done, just as it has always done. They have complied with all notification laws. Your beef is strictly with the folks who changed the environment within which you device must operate, and the with the folks who set forth the laws for what notification you deserve.


You're right. And a conscientious company, the ones we tell our friends about and urge them to patronize, is the one that supports its customers when circumstances not of the consumers' making (and which a sophisticated company such as TIVO certainly knew about and understood, well in advance) change. In supporting its antenna-based Series 2 customers with the DTV transition, as TIVO recently announced, and not forcing the customers' S2 players to become doorstops, TIVO estblishes itself in that regard, to that degree. It also would be nice to see some attractive HDTV transition packages in that regard, in which everyone wins.


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## Cygnus X-1

It is good to see TiVo posting instructions for the OTA converter boxes. I checked TiVo.com though and was unable to find any instructions for OTA boxes anywhere, am I just searching wrong?

I am hoping they make the TiVo support the use of basic cable connected to the coax connection and a OTA converter box hooked up to the RCA/S-Video ports. I get a few channels with basic cable that I would like to keep but Comcast wants me to upgrade from $8 basic (my city requires the option) to $40 digital if I want the side channels that our local stations are broadcasting in digital. Our PBS station has an all kids channel 24x7 that I can't get without either free OTA or $40 Comcast bill.

I would love to test this option if it becomes available and I am in the process of filling out the beta test forms with TiVo.


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## classicsat

I doubt they will have that option. They have never supported anything but satellite+other on the antenna capable models, except the HD models, which will support basic cable+antenna.


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## bicker

Mikeguy said:


> And a conscientious company, the ones we tell our friends about and urge them to patronize, is the one that supports its customers when circumstances not of the consumers' making ... change.


You're just making this stuff up, on the spot, right? I have to give you credit for being very creative. 

TiVo is a company, not a charity. Indeed, TiVo is a company that hardly ever makes a profit -- if there is any charity forthcoming, it would be towards TiVo, not from TiVo.


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## Mikeguy

Out of customer support and conscientiousness comes goodwill, further patronage, recommendations, and profit. Everyone wins, including Tivo, in these days of great DVR competitiveness--Tivo understands this (witness the many recent new features in the last bit of time).


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## gastrof

It's been noted that at least some DISH satellite boxes have OverTheAir digital tuners in them.

The "DTVPal", recently released by Echostar/Dish is an OTA digital converter box to be use with analog equipment.

It also responds to DISH satellite box remote codes. 

Someone on some forum has said that if you set a TiVo up as if you have DISH service with OTAs and a DISH satellite box, but then uncheck all the "cable-type" channels from your TiVo's DISH channel list, it'll leave you with a TiVo that's looking to tune only OTA channels, using a DISH box to do so.

If this is so all over the country, your programming info in the grid will be correct, and the TiVo, thinking it's controlling OTA digital channel changes on a DISH box, will control your DTVPal.

A plus-
The DTVPal has its own timer, like an old VCR would have. It can turn itself on and tune a channel you want to record. Use it as a source for your TiVo (as described above), and the TiVo won't even need to use the IR blaster to control the box. The box will change to the correct channel at the time the TiVo is looking to record from that channel.

You'll just have to set the timer on both machines, is all, so they can work together.

I'm not sure which method would be best, either letting the TiVo control the box, or letting the box operate on the basis of its own event timer. (Some say the timer on the DTVPal can go wonky sometimes. This may make the IR blaster a smarter move, but then we also know what can happen with that method at times.)

_Final thought:
The DTVPal is the only digital converter box I've seen that has its own timer. _


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## bicker

Mikeguy said:


> Out of customer support and conscientiousness comes goodwill, further patronage, recommendations, and profit.


Sometimes, and/or only in specific measure. More and more often, due to the skyrocketing costs of providing such support, and plummeting value incumbent in today's customer purchasing behaviors, some of what you want isn't worth providing, while some is.


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## gcimmino

I received an email on 7/10 from Tivo regarding my S1 box. It said:



> Dear TiVo® customer,
> 
> Our records show that you currently receive some or all of your television signals for your TiVo® DVR through good old-fashioned "rabbit ears" or rooftop antenna.
> 
> That means you WILL be affected by the "Digital Transition" on February 17, 2009the date television stations are federally mandated to switch from old-style analog to all-digital broadcast signals.
> 
> To learn how you are affected and what you need to do, follow these simple instructions:
> 
> Visit tivo.com/digital2009


So I went to the site and put in my S1's TSN and got a very nice note saying:



> Special Offer to keep you in the TiVo Family!
> 
> Starting February 17, 2009, any shows* you receive through your antenna will no longer appear on your TV, leaving your TiVo® Series1TM DVR nothing to record.
> 
> To keep the TiVo service compatible with your current setup, you have two options:
> 
> * Check with your satellite service provider to see if local programming is available.
> * Consider switching to cable and experience the TIVo difference in High Definition with a TiVo HD DVR.
> 
> Special Offer:
> 
> Get a factory-renewed TiVo HD DVR  only $99! Plus, we'll transfer your Product Lifetime Service from your old to your new DVR for only $299.


Of course, I clicked on the "Terms and Conditions" link and was please to see the following buried in the Ts & Cs:


> Terms and conditions for the TiVo Digital Transition Offer ("the Offer"):
> Offer available for a limited time, while supplies last, from June 25, 2008 to September 01, 2008. TiVo reserves the right to terminate this promotion at any time, for any reason.
> 
> 1. Offer includes, with the purchase of any current subscription plan:
> * A Factory Renewed TiVo HD DVR for $99.99
> ** Free Transfer of Product Lifetime Service purchased before January 20, 2001*
> 2. Where applicable, full TiVo Terms and Conditions apply. Connection to TiVo service required via an existing phone line, or broadband connection and wired or wireless home network (Ethernet cable or compatible wireless network adapter required).
> 3. TiVo reserves the right to substitute a different TiVo box of equal or greater value. Cannot be combined with any other offer, including TiVo rebates.
> 4. Money Back Guarantee applies to initial activations if canceled within 30 days and DVR and accessories are returned for a full refund.
> 5. No refunds for cancellations, except as permitted under the 30 day Money Back Guarantee.
> 6. Terms and conditions of the TiVo Service Agreement, available at tivo.com, apply to this Offer.


Since my S1 predates that (December of 2000), I thought to myself, great. Tivo is taking care of its customers and I'll go for it.

Well, I now have the box and was told that I'd need to pay the $299 lifetime to get it. I was told to talk to customer service to get a refund, e.g. the free transfer of lifetime. I spent over an hour on the phone today and am hoping to get some good news on this tomorrow from the very courteous representative that worked with me. I even sent them screen shots of the page since they seemed to be unable to pull it up.

Has any one else gotten this "offer" and gotten the lifetime transfer to actually work?

Thanks


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## zarchon69

at the end of August tivo will update series 2 with software to run digital converter boxes via ir cables, you will need to re-run guided setup and re do season passes, also note that if converter box has a sleep mode you will have to deactivate that option,


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## jlb

In a recent edition of Electronic House magazine they had an article related to the conversion. The suggested this was a good time to upgrade to an HDTV from an analog TV. However, they had a misguided statement. They stated that to get the full benefit of HD, you would need a 1080p or i set. This ignores that some programming is broadcasr in 720p (at least I thought there was) and that depending on screen size and distance, you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.

I wrote a nice letter to the editor suggesting they did not correctly inform their readers.


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## johnlvs2run

> Starting February 17, 2009, any shows* you receive through your antenna will no longer appear on your TV, leaving your TiVo® Series1TM DVR nothing to record.


That is nonsense, and not true.
You will pick up the same stations, which depends on your tv accepting the digital signals, not the antenna. 
The only change will be from analog to digital, which means better reception. 
As far as I know, any antenna will pick up the digital signals.

better reception from antennas
http://www.kxii.com/hdtv/headlines/7260801.html

I've been using an antenna with amplifier, for the last 30 years. 
The first antenna was free as a neighbor was moving, had never used it and let me remove it from his roof. 
It finally wore out and I got a fancier antenna from radio shack for $35 on sale, that didn't pick up any better than the old one. 
I found a link on the net to aim the antenna, to the top of a street pole that matched the direction, and get 19 stations. 
This is good, as there are only 3 main stations in this town.

antenna directions
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx

I've never bought a tv, and this one that a friend got is 30 years old, so I'd have to get a new one by February 17th. 
Or, if the tv stopped working it would be no loss as I rarely watch it anyway.

I would just as soon get rid of the tv and only use the internet.
If the internet stopped working I'd go for more long walks, and talk with people more instead of on the internet.


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## bicker

Uh, you took that quote out of context... it started, "Our records show that you currently receive some or all of your television signals for your TiVo&#174; DVR through good old-fashioned &#8220;rabbit ears&#8221; or rooftop antenna." As such, the premise is that TiVo had recent record that you had your S1 hooked up directly to an antenna. The S1 only has an analog tuner. Therefore, what they wrote was absolutely true -- not nonsense at all.


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## johnlvs2run

No, because they state the antenna is the issue, and the options are moving to satellite or cable.

However, the issue is the analog tuner - not the antenna.

In fact the antenna should provide much better reception than cable.

I see no reason to pay an additional $400 for reception, when the reception is already there.


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## bicker

Uh, you took what they wrote out of context, and (perhaps deliberately) misunderstood its meaning. They aren't going to discuss the technical details of tuners and broadcast protocols in a statement for consumers.  The reality is that there is no reception without a compatible tuner. So you were wrong when you said that the reception is already there. I don't know why you're trying to hard to make things more complicated than they are.


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## classicsat

The reception isn't there. The Series 1 tuner only tunes analog, and officially does not support the digital OTA tuners, for that would require a software update, which TiVo is unwilling to do.


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## bicker

Are you sure that it would require only a software update? I suspect it also would need a hardware update, to install and integrate an ATSC tuner. Retro-fitting would probably cost more than a brand new TiVo HD.


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## classicsat

Nope, it would just require a software update to add support for the digital OTA boxes (selling for free to $50 or so with coupon). The antenna capable Series 2s are getting an update to support those boxes as we speak. It is just TiVo is not offering software updates for Series 1 Standalones anymore, so there will not be one in this case.


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## johnlvs2run

To clarify, the antenna does provide the reception, but the s1 tivo tuner doesn't convert the signal to a picture.

My main point is that the antenna works fine.

It is too bad that tivo doesn't provide an update to their software.


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## franelle

You were lucky to have gotten that warning. I did not. I already had a perfectly good single tuner TIVO with lifetime service but decided I wanted a dual tuner. So, in March of this year, only 7 months ago, I purchased the dual tuner with lifetime service. Recently I switched from RCN Cable to Verizon FIOS and now the dual tuner only works as a single tuner. (This would have happened with RCN in February also) So far, though I've had many confusing suggestions as to whether some kind of adapter would make this work, nothing is really clear except that I feel I've been cheated by TIVO for $600. They have not been very helpful!


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## classicsat

The clear answer is there is nothing that can bring dual tuner back to a Series 2 DT, on an all digital service. The least you could do, is manually use a FIOS Digital Adapter and the otherwise unusable analog tuner, and manually record CH 3 from the DA.


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## jlb

Interesting note.....it seems the This Old House guys are part of a campaign to educate people. I watched a program this weekend where they went to houses with various situations (i.e., cable, DTV, analog TV, HDTV, etc).

For the most part, they got it right. Howvere, I think they need to clarify an item a little further. They correctly note that if you have cable, the 2009 transition does not effect you. They do note also the possibility of a cable company choosing to go all digital, but I don't think they gave enough "air" time to the impact that could have on people. But, given who I think they were really targeting this ad/program with, I think it is undersdtandable.


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## mrbrightside

Am I the only one that's upset over the fact that my series 2 dual tuner will become basically a single tuner when the mandatory broadcast switches over to all digital signals? From reading some of the posts here, people seem to realize that all series 2 DT are worthless come Feb 09, but I don't see anyone upset over that fact, nor do I see anyone upset that as of right now not only does TiVo NOT have a plan to resolve this issue, but according to the email I received today TiVo claims GREAT NEWS that i'm not affected by the change. BS I am affected, I cannot record 2 channels and not only that but I need to reset up my tivo to broadcast all digital. Here is the email I received:

Dear TiVo® customer,
You may have heard about the government-mandated Digital Transition and wondered, "Does it impact me?" Great news! It doesn't. Because you already subscribe to cable or satellite serviceand are not receiving any of your television signals for your TiVo® DVR through analog antennayou are NOT affected by the transition and will continue to enjoy the TiVo service uninterrupted.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Thanks for being a valued member of the TiVo family!
 Your friends at TiVo Inc.

Now however..... on thier website it reads as follows:


Who is affected
Owners of HD TiVo DVRs that currently have basic cable (without CableCARDs).Series1 DVR or Series2 single tuner DVR that are currently receiving only basic (analog) cable channels.Owners of Series2 DT dual-tuner DVRs, who will only be able to view or record one channel at a time when the DVR is connected to an all-digital headend.


And when you call up customer service, which by the way I did this about 6 months ago, complaining about the exact same thing about my box becomming a single tuner instead of a dual....... I got the answer well when we started selling dual tuner boxes we didn't know there was going to be a change in broadcast service like this....... Ok fine but you knew this was happening at least 6 months ago when I called, and not only is TiVo NOT giving anyone in the customer support area any information about what, if anything, they are going to do to resolve this issue, but also they aren't even coaching the customer service reps on what to say to us when we do call up. Now if they don't care about the employees who yeild most of the phone calls and direct them in what they are going to do, what does that say about how they feel about thier customers?


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## David_NC

> Am I the only one that's upset over the fact that my series 2 dual tuner will become basically a single tuner when the mandatory broadcast switches over to all digital signals?


The switchover to digital only applies to over-the-air broadcasts, which the dual tuner never supported to begin with (ok, it will receive channels 2-13, but there is no official setup for antenna reception). As long as your cable/satellite service provides analog feeds that do not require a cable box to tune, the dual tuner will remain a dual tuner.


----------



## mrbrightside

David_NC said:


> The switchover to digital only applies to over-the-air broadcasts, which the dual tuner never supported to begin with (ok, it will receive channels 2-13, but there is no official setup for antenna reception). As long as your cable/satellite service provides analog feeds that do not require a cable box to tune, the dual tuner will remain a dual tuner.


I understand that, but in my area in NY they are switching ALL channels over to digital, some have already been switched over, so in a sense, people who don't currently have cable/satellite TV will NOT get any channels come Feb 09.


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## David_NC

> I understand that, but in my area in NY they are switching ALL channels over to digital, some have already been switched over, so in a sense, people who don't currently have cable/satellite TV will NOT get any channels come Feb 09.


For people who only receive TV over-the-air, they will need either a converter box, or a TV with a digital tuner. 
But your post was about the loss of dual tuners on the DT Tivo, and since Tivo's official stance is that the DT model doesn't receive over-the-air, it will not be affected. (In fact, it doesn't receive over-the-air because, when it was built, any receiver capable of over-the-air reception was required to have a digital tuner in addition to the analog tuner, in anticipation of the February, 2009, cutoff. Digital tuners were very expensive at the time, so they simply disabled the analog to comply with the law.)
The quote you gave from Tivo's website is referring to a cable system, not over-the-air, since an "all-digital headend" isn't a term used for broadcast television.


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## gantonak

I just got my notice from TiVo that my lifetime series 1 is not affected by the digital tansition because it was connected to cable. So I switched to analog OTA to get the HD upgrade offer but no such luck yet. Is the discount upgrade for series 1 owners unavailable?


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## bicker

The objective of the offer was to address those TiVo owners who actually were using OTA; switching to OTA after-the-fact almost surely doesn't trigger the offer.


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## jlb

jlb said:


> In a recent edition of Electronic House magazine they had an article related to the conversion. The suggested this was a good time to upgrade to an HDTV from an analog TV. However, they had a misguided statement. They stated that to get the full benefit of HD, you would need a 1080p or i set. This ignores that some programming is broadcasr in 720p (at least I thought there was) and that depending on screen size and distance, you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.
> 
> I wrote a nice letter to the editor suggesting they did not correctly inform their readers.


Well guess what.......My letter to the editor was included in the current (November) issue of Electronic House Magazine.

They may have edited my words a bit but here's the text of the article (Couldn't find letters to the eds online):



> *Don't Forget 720p HD*
> 
> I think you are doing a disservice to your readers in your "Gearing Up for Digital TV" article (September, page 31) where you state that "True high-def signals have a picture resolution of 1080 lines, so you'll need to buy an HDTV with a native resolution of 1080i or 1080p to view a pciture in full high-definintion quality."
> 
> While it is true that 1080p/i are the highest resolutions available in typical consumer displays at this time, many networks still broadcast some of their HD content in 720p. In addition, depending on the size of the display and viewer distance from the screen, the human eye cannot discern the difference between a 720p and 1080p image on similar TVs that are calibrated approximately the same. Based on this alone, consumers can often save hundreds, if not, thousands, of dollars when they purchase their new TV. I have a TiVo HD box feeding a fixed 720p output signal to my 720p 37-inch Vizio LCD, and it looks excellent from my viewing position.
> 
> Sure, down the road 720p may be the 8-track tape of video displays, but not right now.
> 
> _-Jeff_


Interestingly enough, bfads.net now has the Sears Black Friday listing up and there are many 720p TVs and (WOW) 1080p TVs listed at great prices. I see some 32" 1080p models under $500. Hell, for what I paid for my 37" Vizio back last January ($749), I could get a 42" LCD for only a few dollars more.

But the bottom line that I was trying to get across in my letter was that 720p is very viable, and if your TV has a good scaler, even 1080p/i sources will look great on them. And then you can use those saved dollars on a sub-$200 BR player on Black Friday.


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## classicsat

I think they took a snapshot of the system sometime in May. If you were not set up for antenna at that time, you are not eligible for the offer.

mrbrightside, you are confusing cable's transition to digital and the OTA transition to digitalwhich are by large, two wholly separate things.

You are not affected by the OTA digital transition because you do not receive your TV with antenna, you use cable. Yes, you are affected by the cable transition to digital, but that is not the discussion here.


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## Laserfan

gantonak said:


> I just got my notice from TiVo that my lifetime series 1 is not affected by the digital tansition because it was connected to cable. So I switched to analog OTA to get the HD upgrade offer but no such luck yet. Is the discount upgrade for series 1 owners unavailable?


Did you go to the upgrade page and enter your Tivo Service Number? The offer expires Nov 1 so you'd better hurry in any case!

I have to decide myself what to do--somehow I missed the summer offer to upgrade for $99 and get free lifetime transfer (a few posts up on this page) and now am faced w/$99 plus $299 else my S1 becomes useless in Feb!


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## phox_mulder

I got an email from TiVo yesterday saying I wasn't affected by the changeover since I am using satellite or cable.

Neither of my 2 TiVo's has ever been hooked to satellite or cable.

They've both only had an antenna input since the day they were born.

Something's amiss in their database.

Yes, I do have DirecTV, but TiVo doesn't know this.
The only TiVo's they know about are the S2 and the S3.
Guided Setup has only been run with the antenna input.

Unless DirecTV shares R10 and HR10 user info with TiVo.


phox


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## gantonak

Laserfan said:


> Did you go to the upgrade page and enter your Tivo Service Number? The offer expires Nov 1 so you'd better hurry in any case!
> 
> I have to decide myself what to do--somehow I missed the summer offer to upgrade for $99 and get free lifetime transfer (a few posts up on this page) and now am faced w/$99 plus $299 else my S1 becomes useless in Feb!


I tried that to no avail. But I called TiVo and told them I was concerned that my OTA Series 1 would require cable or satellite after the digital transition and asked if TiVo could offer me another option.

I was offered a discount on a dual tuner Series 2 or an HD with FREE transfer of my lifetime from my series 1. I didn't think I was eligible for a free transfer of my lifetime sub, because I activated my series 1 on 2/28/01, after the 1/20/01 cutoff.

But I was told that since I hadn't ever transfered my service in almost 8 years they would do it. So I took the new TiVo HD for $200 and the FREE transfer and got an even better deal than the $99 plus $299 I was hoping for.


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## Laserfan

gantonak said:


> I tried that to no avail. But I called TiVo and told them I was concerned that my OTA Series 1 would require cable or satellite after the digital transition and asked if TiVo could offer me another option.
> 
> I was offered a discount on a dual tuner Series 2 or an HD with FREE transfer of my lifetime from my series 1. I didn't think I was eligible for a free transfer of my lifetime sub, because I activated my series 1 on 2/28/01, after the 1/20/01 cutoff.
> 
> But I was told that since I hadn't ever transfered my service in almost 8 years they would do it. So I took the new TiVo HD for $200 and the FREE transfer and got an even better deal than the $99 plus $299 I was hoping for.


gantonak I wish you hadn't told me that! I suppose that if I'd threatened to quit Tivo based on my S1 becoming obsolete, they'd have offered to transfer my April 2000 lifetime S1 for free!!!


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## martinfick

Since I do not see it anywhere in this thread, I figured I would post Todd C. Miller's How To:
http://www.gratisoft.us/tivo/dtv.html


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## DanielPZ

gantonak said:


> I tried that to no avail. But I called TiVo and told them I was concerned that my OTA Series 1 would require cable or satellite after the digital transition and asked if TiVo could offer me another option.
> 
> I was offered a discount on a dual tuner Series 2 or an HD with FREE transfer of my lifetime from my series 1. I didn't think I was eligible for a free transfer of my lifetime sub, because I activated my series 1 on 2/28/01, after the 1/20/01 cutoff.
> 
> But I was told that since I hadn't ever transfered my service in almost 8 years they would do it. So I took the new TiVo HD for $200 and the FREE transfer and got an even better deal than the $99 plus $299 I was hoping for.


Any advice on how to do this? I had no luck, got through to a variety of clueless customer service reps. Should I try people in sales or tech support or something else? Is there something I can refer to?


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## djbryce

I am a early adopter of TIVo with my trusty Series1 box with Lifetime service, that just keeps chuggin' along. A few questions, with apologies if they have already been answered elsewhere...

1) Will one of the converter boxes work with OTA and my Series1
2) ..and if so, which converter box make/model is recommended?

Thanks

Bryce


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## classicsat

Officially no. Full support would require an update, and TiVo isn't doing that for Series 1s, at least for this reason. Unoffically, there are some workarounds. Look around and you will find posts describing how to use a Series 1 with a convertor box, and which convertor box to choose.


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## junglecrus

Please feel free to repost this in the proper place and in as many places as you want.

For all you Series 1 owners with Lifetime subscriptions.

Get the Apex Digital Tuner from BestBuy.

Get an IR blaster and plug it into the back of the Tivo, then stick the blaster on the front of the Apex box.

Go through the 'Guided setup' on your Tivo.

Select 'Cable' and select 'Hughes' as the type of box.

When the Tivo changes the channel to 5 (for example) the digital box will go to channel 5.1 (because there is no channel 5)

Your old Series 1 with Lifetime Subscription on Antenna now has a new life!

Doug
www.DoctorFloyd.com


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## classicsat

That is a well know work around, not a 100&#37; guarantee to work, but might.


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## matt_o_70

I am very unhappy to learn that there was a HD box upgrade offer that ended in November but I was never contacted with this offer by Tivo. Apparently they had a very old email address listed for my account so I assume that they onlymade this offer by email (yet there is no problem sending ads to my tivo)? Calls to customer care yield nothing. All I am asking for is the same offer already offered to series1 customers who use antenna. I am a lifetime series 1 owner from way back..

For series1 customers who require antenna for OTA network programing the lack of OFFICIAL support for converter boxes or NO STANDING upgrade offer for the same customers is shameful!

Matt


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## satrad

I just converted from DirectTV to OTA. I checked what channels were being recorded on my Tivo and found that most if not all the channels recorded were offered OTA.

Channels are all in Denver about 65 mi away.

S1 Tivo, Lifetime subscription, Clearstream4 Antenna, Digital Stream Dxt9950. Set the Tivo feed to satellite box, Hughes, 00137 fast and it all works GREAT!!!

I had the Apex Dt250 converter box and the video was very poor. I will try the Channel Master 7700 tomorrow and compair to the DS 9950.


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## timckelley

So reading this sticky for my situation: I have analog cable, and so far Time Warner has not said they're going digital, but who knows if that will change. If it does, I have 2 single tuner S2's and one TiVoHD. It seems like I'd have to get 2 cable boxes (one for each S2), and 2 cable cards for my TiVoHD). I wonder how much $ all that would run me. I hope it doesn't happen.

Plus IIRC (but could be wrong), aren't cable boxes less reliable than analog? I thought I heard stories where the cable box lost power and didn't turn back on, then a day later or so you check, and Now Playing doesn't have your show because the cable box is turned off.


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## newskilz

<Thread Hijack>



timckelley said:


> Plus IIRC (but could be wrong), aren't cable boxes less reliable than analog? I thought I heard stories where the cable box lost power and didn't turn back on, then a day later or so you check, and Now Playing doesn't have your show because the cable box is turned off.


Most would reply to that with "That is why you put everything on a UPS device, so that power outages cannot happen" at least in most cases. And yeah I know, that costs money too, I'm still braving it out but am getting antsy without UPS on my Tivos. If nothing else they smooth out the power going to the boxes. Anyway, my two cents.

And for what it's worth, the S1 work around with some boxes works fine as long as you arrange it to guarantee the IR blasters stay over your converter box's IR input. Well at least for me anyway.


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## TVDave2

The FAQ should mention that if you're currently using digital OTA, the digital frequencies the stations broadcast on probably will change.

This means your TiVo HD will no longer have guide data for the digital channels you are now receiving, and you will no longer be able to use your TiVo for any OTA recording.

You can call TiVo to request they correct the guide data, and be promised a 5-7 day fix. However, this timeframe is just a standard line the CSR is giving which may not be reflected in reality. In the case of Hawaii which already made the DTV switch, it's been 5 weeks and TiVo is still unable to tune to any OTA channels using the guide. This effectively renders the TiVo HD to the equivalent of a dual tuner TiVo 2. If you do not have cable, you are screwed.


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## JimboG

Yep, it's friggin' ridiculous that it has taken this long to fix the digital channels that moved on February 17th.

It is even more inexcusable that the guide data _still_ isn't accurate for Hawaii. Hawaii shut down analog broadcasts on Jan 15 as originally planned. Neither Congress nor the White House messed up Hawaii's analog shut off, so there is even less excuse that Tribune has not correct the over the air channel data yet.:down:


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## ajwees41

ivycheng said:


> hi,
> 
> we are selling cheap dvds,dvd movies,dvd tv shows---all items is for free shipping!
> 
> Wish u have a great stay there!


this is off topic but you don't even post a link.


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## timckelley

He can't, because he only has 1 post to his name. The forum doesn't allow links until you have a certain number of posts, which is a good thing, as it reduces spam.


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## ajwees41

name could be googled


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## KLimprecht

Am I too late to jump in? Comcast went all digital cable on April 1st of this year. I'm not sure if that was their idea of an April Fools Joke, but it has really messed us up. We have 3 TVs. 1 is an HD Tv with an HD Tivo, so no troubles there. TV #2 is not HD, but we had a Series 2 single and a Series 2 dual tuner on that TV. We just switched the TV back and forth between Video 1 and Video 2 depending on which TV we wanted to watch. So, essentially we had 3 Tivo Tuners on that TV. We have 3 kids who like to record a lot of shows and watch them over and over again. Since the upgrade, we ended up buying another HD Tivo for that TV (dual tuner). So, we are all set there. On TV #3 we just have a Series 2 single tuner, but thought about switching to the dual tuner just for the sake of having more hours. We didn't switch it yet, but we're still trying to get that darn converter box from comcast to work. If you even mention Tivo to them, they tell you that you need to either upgrade your TV or you need to use their fabulous DVR. We tried it for a bit and hated it. Returned it right away. Still, even with the converter box, some channels don't work through the Tivo. Also, some channels work through the other video input through the TV tuner, but not on all channels. Am I doomed to buy another HD Tivo now? Why can't Tivo offer a trade in for my non HD Tivo?

Kathryn


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## classicsat

Get a regular cable box, split cable to it and the cable box and set up as normal. You will get a few channels on the analog tuner, and everything from the box (you subscribe to).

TiVo does not offer a trade in program, because quite often the old hadrware has nearly zero value.


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## junglecrus

So what does everybody think about Tivo taking away the channels on the Series 1? Personally, I think it's disgraceful. 

I have a series 1 with a lifetime service and it would change the channels on my Apex digital box just fine, but Tivo decided to take it upon themselves to erase all the channels on MY tivo so that I can't choose programs to record anymore. To me that's just dirty pool. 

They weren't planning on upgrading the software on MY tivo, but they took time out of their day to delete the channels on MY tivo, shameful.

I called Tivo and mentioned that I had a lifetime subscription and do you know what the jackass said to me? He said "we didn't mean YOUR lifetime", what a moron. 

Doesn't Tivo realize that even though you might assume that an appliance has a certain lifetime, that it can actually go on working forever? way past MY death, and even then, the subscription would still work, of course until Tivo gets wind of my demise.

I'm a Tivo stockholder, but their stock has never been any good, because they practice such shady business tactics. I think I'll sell it tomorrow, just to get rid of it.


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## bicker




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## classicsat

junglecrus said:


> So what does everybody think about Tivo taking away the channels on the Series 1? Personally, I think it's disgraceful.
> 
> I have a series 1 with a lifetime service and it would change the channels on my Apex digital box just fine, but Tivo decided to take it upon themselves to erase all the channels on MY tivo so that I can't choose programs to record anymore. To me that's just dirty pool.
> They weren't planning on upgrading the software on MY tivo, but they took time out of their day to delete the channels on MY tivo, shameful.
> 
> I called Tivo and mentioned that I had a lifetime subscription and do you know what the jackass said to me? He said "we didn't mean YOUR lifetime", what a moron.


They (TiVo) didn't, The broadcasters took their analog channels off the air, and Tribune (TiVo's guide data source) de-mapped them from their lineups. Why would they keep stations mapped that are not their anymore? 


> Doesn't Tivo realize that even though you might assume that an appliance has a certain lifetime, that it can actually go on working forever? way past MY death, and even then, the subscription would still work, of course until Tivo gets wind of my demise.


Yes, but they are fulfilling their part of the bargain for service, and it still works like it should. It just so happens that most analog broadcast channels aren't mapped. As I said, it is not a TiVo issue.

You also need to realize, like TiVo does, that standards change, platforms need abandoned for new, and some new standards cannot be met old hardware (not exactly relevant to the Series 1, but the second one is especially though)


> I'm a Tivo stockholder, but their stock has never been any good, because they practice such shady business tactics. I think I'll sell it tomorrow, just to get rid of it.


I wouldn't call it shady. They specifically said that there would be nothing for the Series 1s WRT to the digital broadcast transition, and have hand numerous offers to transfer Product Lifetime to new boxes. It is not their fault you never took them up on it.


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## alexson115

Hi all, I am a new member of forum


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## Wagara

Hi, I'm new here with a question. I also have a Series 1 TiVo which I have connected to a converter box which is then connected to an antenna. I am not paying a subscription fee and only use the TiVo as a recorder (and am surprised to see how many actually do the same thing). 

I have the TiVo set for channel 3 and the converter box set for channel 4. At the moment, I can tune the TV to channel 3 and I can see what's showing thru the converter box. I can set the recorder manually. I only have channel 4 set as a viewable channel on the TiVo. This means I have to make sure the converter box is set to the channel I want to record or the TiVo will record whatever the converter box is showing. This is manageable only to a certain point.

I'm scared to reset my TiVo again because I'm scared it will disallow manual recording (based on prior posts) even tho I was able to update my file and reset my time this past June. I've just waited till now to work on this hoping the kinks would get worked out.

Should I live with it as is? If I reset the TiVo to reflect the converter box will I lose the ability to record? Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## Jim_Mullin

satrad said:


> I just converted from DirectTV to OTA. I checked what channels were being recorded on my Tivo and found that most if not all the channels recorded were offered OTA.
> 
> Channels are all in Denver about 65 mi away.
> 
> S1 Tivo, Lifetime subscription, Clearstream4 Antenna, Digital Stream Dxt9950. Set the Tivo feed to satellite box, Hughes, 00137 fast and it all works GREAT!!!
> 
> I had the Apex Dt250 converter box and the video was very poor. I will try the Channel Master 7700 tomorrow and compair to the DS 9950.


Hi satrad/et al - are you having any luck getting program guide data


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## satrad

Jim_Mullin said:


> Hi satrad/et al - are you having any luck getting program guide data


Tivo provides program guides just fine. The final June switch over made it very solid. I have converted over 12 x-cable/satellite friends to OTA and all are very happy.

I have just identified 'antenna' as the source with the Tivo units and it all syncs great. We get about 38 channels incl. sub channels and all in HDTV.

I just ask that the new OTA viewers make a payment directly to our PBS stations the equivalent to a one month of their cable bill. One small amount of the money that used to go to cable companies makes a big difference if it can go directly to PBS stations.


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## Dan04u

Have had to change my system, so I not tried this yet.
Some time soon.


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## Dan04u

Sorry wrong spot


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## SID6767

the new boxes support it right?


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## classicsat

If you mean by "it" digital OTA TV:

Supported:

 All of the Series 3/4 models do directly
 All the Series 2, except 649 and 542 models, support digital OTA with a box

Not supported for digital OTA.

All Series 1 models (would require software update, won't happen now)

 Series 2 649/542 models (made to comply with FCC digital tuner requirement, so won't/didn't get update for OTA digital support).


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## Dave1477

Series2 Humax DRT800 with DVD recorder works great with the digital OTA over the air signal. Since the conversion, I am getting more channels and they look great. My Humax Tivo doesn't do HD, but it translates everything into standard definition. I'm using the Insignia converter box from BEst Buy as there was a lot of good reviews for it. 

What I did was to run the cable from the antenna to the DTV converter box, then RCA cables from there to the Tivo, RCA cables from Tivo to TV set. 

Using the IR Blasters taped to the DTV convert box. Works fine. 
Since the TV will actually display HD, I am going to run an antenna cable also to the TV directly, just in case I ever want to watch live TV in HD. Of course that will add the complexity of having to change the input source on the TV, but oh well, it's not that hard.


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