# Comcast cable card fees



## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

I currently have two Comcast cable cards in some TiVos. In the past, I was on a promo rate and clearly being charged $1.50 for each card. It specifically said "2 X cable cards" on my bill. 

Now, this promo rate ended last November and my monthly bill went to the normal price (up about $30-40/month). They also wound up essentially charging me $9.95 for EACH cable card (additional $19.90/month). However, they are listed on my bill as "digital service". No where on my bill does it say anything about "cable cards" like it did before. 

I was able to get back on another promo rate, but it didn't fix this issue. I got Comcast billing dept. on the phone and tried to resolve this, but they gave me some lame excuse (I can't exactly remember at this point) why they now aren't simply charging $1.50 per card per month. 

Not satisfied with this, I decided to go into my local Comcast office to try and get it resolved. They agreed that the cost of my cable cards should simply be $3/month. They would then basically adjust my bill and give me a credit for the two "digital service" charges. Each time they said they fixed the problem in their computer system and it should be correct on my next bill. 

However, it has never been correct and EVERY month since, the $19.90 "digital service" charges show back up. And once again, I go into my local Comcast office every month and complain. They easily give me the credit and tell me again that it should be fixed. They are nice about it so I have no problems with the local reps helping me. At this point, they also recognize me each time I come in to get the bill adjusted, but I would like to NOT have to come in every month to do this. 

Any suggestions on how to get this billing problem fixed permanently? Or is this most likely going to be an ongoing issue and a continuous battle with Comcast billing for months to come?


.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Well, you can point them to their own FAQ (next to last question), which states that the first cablecard in a device is free. Not just one device, but 'a device'.

And then the devil is in the details, because nowhere in that FAQ or in the rate sheet does it say that a digital outlet charge applies. Sometimes. If they feel like it. Or not.

Feel free to file an FCC complaint about this nonsense, it's what I and others have done. They are supposed to charge a universal rental for these cards under the new FCC card rules (just like every other MSO), but they clearly do not.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I will definitely try to use this to get it straightened out. 

Originally, I was using TWO S-cards in a Series 3 so I guess technically I was being over charged since the first one is suppose to be free (in the same device). However, it was only $1.50/month so I never worried about it too much and just lived with it. I later traded the two S-Cards in for two M-cards as the local rep said this might fix the billing issue. I was suspicious, but whatever. Of course, it didn't fix the issue. 

Now, I have one of these M-Cards in the Series 3 & the other in a newly purchased Premiere. At some point, I plan to get another M-Card for the Series 3 (to have dual tuners), but am currently having issues with the unit so just haven't done so until I get it fully fixed/repaired. Plus, I don't want to possibly get charged ANOTHER $9.95/month "digital outlet" fee like I am with the two cable cards I currently have. 

While I would love to technically (& should) only pay $3 for the three M-cards (in two TiVo boxes), something tells me it won't be this easy & I won't be charged this rate. I would even be happy to pay $4.50/month for the 3 cable cards if it comes down to that. Potentially being charged about $30/month for 3 cable cards is unacceptable though.


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## JTYoung1 (Aug 13, 2006)

If you have 1 card in each box, you are getting charged correctly. If you had 2 of the digital boxes or DVRs from Comcast, you would also be getting charged $9.95 per box after the first one with a digital outlet fee. I do not have my bill in front of me so I don't remember how the first outlet is charged.

If you had 2 cards in yous Series 3, then you should be getting charged $1.50 for the 2nd cable card in the unit, but once you put it in another unit you have a second digital outlet.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Well, in the past, I was getting charged only $1.50 per cable card for them being in the Series 3 box. All was well until the promo rate I was on ended last November. Then I somehow & mysteriously started getting charged $9.95 for EACH cable card in this Series 3. And they were listed as "digital service". No sign of a "cable card" charge like before. And I only recently got a Premiere TiVo & put one of these M-cards in it (that used to be in the Series 3) so this issue has been going on before I even got another TiVo. 

As pointed out by slowbiscuit, Comcast's own FAQ page even states how you should be charged ONLY $1.50 per cable card. And the first one in my Series 3 should be free as well. So none of this $9.95/month makes any sense in my opinion.


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## tomm1079 (May 10, 2005)

i went through this over and over with them (even pointing out the FAQ).

In the end cable cards are now a digital access and they charge me 7.95 and then i get a 2.50 credit on every bill. So i just gave up.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

If I have to pay $9.95/month (or even $7.95/month) to have EACH cable card, then what the hell is the point of even having cable cards and/or a TiVo? I might as well just get their own DVR euipment. Even though the Comcast DVR sucks, it would still be better in the sense that if you have equipment issues (like I am currently having with a 4yr old Series 3), you simply exchange it for a new Comcast DVR box. I actually did this YEARS ago before I got any TiVos. 

I'm gonna TRY to get this resolved, but it doesn't seem too promising at this point. I have also been debating on either going with a local package (requiring no cable cards) or even dropping Comcast all together and go with strictly over the air channels. When I got my Premiere TiVo, I got a Best Buy bundle that included an antenna. Its currently still sitting in its box unopened and in my car trunk, but these recent shenanigans might seal the deal. I also have a Netflix account. This can probably provide MANY hours of entertainment and more than I need if I really wanted. 

Maybe threatening to leave (for OTA and Netflix) will help the situation, but I tend to doubt it after some of the reps I have talked to on the phone seem to care less.


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## c-collins (Sep 27, 2003)

You best bet is to go to you local office and talk about the billing. I find the reps there much more accommodating than the phone reps.

I currently have a TivoHD and a Premier Elite on Comcast They do not charge me for either the cable cards or the additional out let fees for them. 

Also I got the HD Fee waived and got customer owned equipment credits for the Tivos and my cable modem.

I have one cable box and they do charge me the rental on the box and an additional outlet fee for it. 

I may have to go to the office to speak about that as I think your first cable box is also supposed to be free depending on the package you subscribe too.


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## jadziedzic (Apr 20, 2009)

I filed an FCC complaint regarding Comcast's additional outlet fees for customer-provided equipment. I received a follow-up call from a Comcast rep (for the Boston area) last week and had a lengthy chat with the rep.

The rep explained that Comcast's rationale for the additional outlet fee is that the customer is receiving "digital services" at an additional location in the house other than the "primary outlet" and should be billed for those services (read "channels" for "digital services"). If a customer provides their own equipment at any digital outlet they will be credited for that equipment (about $2.50). In short, you can get a Comcast digital set-top box for $10.00, or you can use your own equipment for $7.50 (the first CableCARD is provided free). A digital transport adapter (DTA) is cheaper than a set-top box as it provides fewer "digital services" (i.e., you don't get music channels).

I explained my point of view that in the "good old analog days" I could split the incoming signal any number of ways and still pay one monthly fee for cable TV service, and my feeling that the additional outlet fee was basically a "because we can" fee. The rep wasn't real pleased with my assessment, but did acknowledge that the "good old analog days" were handled differently.

They also agreed that the additional outlet fee is applied erratically across Comcast's customer base, and they are trying to educate their local office personnel regarding the corporate pricing scheme.

It appears the only way the additional outlet fee is going away is if the FCC steps in and tells Comcast "no", but it's unlikely that will happen.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I had it out with them recently over the second card in my S3 and they finally fixed it. Here are my current charges/credits

Premiere - Free
Premiere - $8.95 - ($2.50)
HD - $8.95 - ($2.50)
S3 - $8.95 - $1.18 - ($2.50)

The S3 used to be - $8.95 -$8.95 - ($2.50) - ($2.50)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

jadziedzic said:


> They also agreed that the additional outlet fee is applied erratically across Comcast's customer base, and they are trying to educate their local office personnel regarding the corporate pricing scheme.
> 
> It appears the only way the additional outlet fee is going away is if the FCC steps in and tells Comcast "no", but it's unlikely that will happen.


This is why everyone getting the outlet fee should complain to the FCC, because a few complaints aren't going to help. They need to know that Comcast is not complying with the new card orders, which state that card charges must be universal and reasonable, and that if they try to do this outlet fee stuff they must break out the card rental separately on the bill; i.e. none of this 'outlet fee minus credit' junk. They have to show that a card rental costs $7.50, *universally*, if they want to claim that this is the policy. That also means no $1.50 for second card in a device, btw. They also have to show the breakdown of DVR/STB rental rates vs. Cablecard included in that 'digital service outlet' and they don't do that either, they just fudge it with the credit.

The FCC also needs to know that Comcast is the only MSO that is not charging a single, simple rental fee per card, which the FCC states should normally be $2-4 per month. Comcast is in the wrong here, but I agree that the FCC probably won't do anything until enough people complain (if then).


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Not sure it will really result in anything significant, but I filed my FCC complaint. Hopefully it will do something & I could hear from someone (but I tend to believe I won't)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You'll hear from someone at Comcast, but it probably won't do any good.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

OK, I submitted an FCC complaint and while I didn't hear from anyone directly from Comcast (or the FCC), I did seem to get the problem resolved. Or at least it appears that way.

I got my Comcast bill today & MIRACULOUSLY (after 3 months), the cable card fees are now back on there like they were before and the recurring "digital outlet" fees (about $20/month) are gone. It is clearly stating $1.50 per cable card. There is also even a bonus. Under "other charges and credits", it has $5 (2 X $2.50) in credits for "customer owned equipment adjustment". So essentially, I am getting paid $2/month to have the cable cards. At least that is the way I see it.

While I have two cable M-cards (originally for a Series 3), I am only really using one of them for the time being. I am having an issues with my Series 3 (lifetime) so I wound up getting a Premiere (that I wanted to anyway) and just put one of these existing cable cards in it for now. Called Comcast and had the M-Card paired up with the Premiere and all is working good. The other one is not being used and I was gonna return it if this didn't get cleared up, but since I now seem to be getting charged the correct rate (plus a $2.50 credit), I might as well just hang on to it until I fully fix my Series 3 TiVo. Hell, I might even pick up a 3rd one if they will keep billing me like they are, but part of me doesn't want to risk it just yet. I could easily see Comcast screwing things up all over again. I guess at some point I will need to get the 3rd one (in order to have two in the Series 3) so maybe I should just do it now while things "seem" to be correct. 

Not sure if the FCC complaint was the reason for my bill getting fixed (something says it couldn't of been that easy), but I feel it is where it needs to be. Basically, a double play package that equals $80/month for their highest cable TV package (preferred) AND Performance (12mbs) internet. Then taxes, fees and these cable card charges and the total is around $84/month. Seems like the best I'm gonna do for now.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

FWIW, I understand the folks over in the Comcast Direct forum at DSL Reports can help with issues like this.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

buscuitboy said:


> OK, I submitted an FCC complaint and while I didn't hear from anyone directly from Comcast (or the FCC), I did seem to get the problem resolved. Or at least it appears that way.
> 
> I got my Comcast bill today & MIRACULOUSLY (after 3 months), the cable card fees are now back on there like they were before and the recurring "digital outlet" fees (about $20/month) are gone. It is clearly stating $1.50 per cable card. There is also even a bonus. Under "other charges and credits", it has $5 (2 X $2.50) in credits for "customer owned equipment adjustment". So essentially, I am getting paid $2/month to have the cable cards. At least that is the way I see it.
> 
> ...


That's better than what we're paying TWC for extended basic (analog) and the slowest version of Earthlink over TWC's cable.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ebf said:


> FWIW, I understand the folks over in the Comcast Direct forum at DSL Reports can help with issues like this.


Tried that too, didn't work. The problem is that different regions handle card billing separately, and some insist on charging the outlet fee. Which again is not in compliance with the FCC rules, which state that the card rental must be universal.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Yea, I might even consider bumping my internet speed up to their 22Mb service for only $10 more per month. We'll see. 

I mentioned that my local office would give me a credit each time there was an error. I remember the last time they said they made a note on my account as to why I should be charged only $1.50 per cable card. I'm thinking that might of been a contributing factor & possibly helped. Who knows and either way, I'm just glad the darn thing has been taken care of & cleared up. At least for now or until I am taken off this 12 month promo rate and probably have to go through it again next year. 

Also keep in my that my bill is probably under $100/month because I own most of the equipment. 3 lifetime TiVos; 2 HDs (S3 & S4) and one Series 2 (controls my SD digital box). I also recently eliminated the monthly modem lease fee. It went up from $5/month to $7/month so I recently decided to just flat out buy a DOCSIS3 modem at Best Buy that they had on sale ($85). I have a family member who is paying Comcast outrageously for numerous cable boxes and DVR services from Comcast. And the Comcast DVR is still HORRIBLE in my opinion. Not to mention that they don't have the multi-room option in our area yet either. A complete waste of money if you ask me. I've made some suggestions, but to each his own. Like they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"


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## Bill Freyfogle (Apr 29, 2002)

I did not know whether to re-open an old discussion or start a new one.

I have a Motorola cable box in my bedroom and a Series 3 Tivo in my living room. The S3 has two cable cards in it and I am being charged $8.75 for each of the cable cards and then given a credit of $2.50 for each of the cards since I own the Tivo box. Therefore, the monthly cost from Comcast for my S3 machine is $17.50-5.00 = $12.50. 

I wanted to turn in the Motorola cable box and get a new Premiere machine with 4 cable cards but that would just be too pricey. I would get the first cable card for free in lieu of the cable box but would have to pay for three cable cards and that would cost me 3 x $8.75 minus 3 x $2.50 = $18.75 per month. Very pricey! Am I right?

THanks much!
Bill


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You only need (and can only insert) 1 cable card in a Premiere.


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## Bill Freyfogle (Apr 29, 2002)

I thought the Premiere is two tuners. Is there a one-tuner TIVO machine that gets High Definition? That would be great for me, it would mean my cable bill would not go up - I could turn in my regular cable box and use the one-tuner TIVO in its' place.
Thanks!
Bill


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Bill Freyfogle said:


> I thought the Premiere is two tuners. Is there a one-tuner TIVO machine that gets High Definition? That would be great for me, it would mean my cable bill would not go up - I could turn in my regular cable box and use the one-tuner TIVO in its' place.
> Thanks!
> Bill


There are two-tuner and four-tuner Premieres. Both only require one Cablecard.

You're being charged too much for the second card in your Series 3.

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/about-cablecards/#cc9


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Bill Freyfogle said:


> I thought the Premiere is two tuners. Is there a one-tuner TIVO machine that gets High Definition? That would be great for me, it would mean my cable bill would not go up - I could turn in my regular cable box and use the one-tuner TIVO in its' place.
> Thanks!
> Bill


The original Series 3, the TCD648250, has to have a card for each tuner--it can be an S card or an M card, but each tuner has to have its own.

The later S3s, the HD and HD XL, and the Premieres, can use one M card for both tuners, and I think the 4 tuner models only need one M card as well.


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## Bill Freyfogle (Apr 29, 2002)

You guys are AWESOME! Thanks so much cherry ghost! I got online with Comcast and had my last two months' fees reversed and my cable bill cut a lot! Now, I will document all the other (5 years) charges and send a package to Comcast for prior over-charges.

BTW, I did not understand the M cards and how they handle up to 6 tuners. 

Unitron is absolutely correct! My original (Sept 2007) Tivo Series 3 machine - the good one with THX Certification and the LED readout on the front - REQUIRES two cable cards. I am still using the original ones installed in Sept 2007. I have decided to keep this machine and then buy a new Premeire XL when the Mini-Tivos come out and move the Series 2 to the bedroom.

I still have my old Tivo Series 1 machine I bought and activated in Feb 2001. It is in the bedroom and makes its' phone call every day. I have replaced the hard drive twice and bought an external modem long ago but it still works. I will retire this machine when I get the new Premiere XL next year. I guess I got my money's worth on the Lifetime Subscription back in 2002! I paid less than $199 for the subscription, I forget the exact amount.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Bill Freyfogle said:


> You guys are AWESOME! Thanks so much cherry ghost! I got online with Comcast and had my last two months' fees reversed and my cable bill cut a lot! Now, I will document all the other (5 years) charges and send a package to Comcast for prior over-charges.
> 
> BTW, I did not understand the M cards and how they handle up to 6 tuners.
> 
> ...


The lifetime sub on that S1 qualifies you for MultiSet Discount as long as it calls the mothership every 3 or 6 months (I forget which), so don't be in too big a hurry to retire it.

And if you don't have lifetime on the S3 already, getting an S4 of some sort gives you the leverage to get PLS on the S3 for $99.


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## Bill Freyfogle (Apr 29, 2002)

Thanks again Unitron! I bought PLS on the Series 3 shortly after I bought it in 2007. What kind of leverage can I have when I buy my next machine? What will PLS on a new one cost?
Thanks so much!
Bill


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Bill Freyfogle said:


> Thanks again Unitron! I bought PLS on the Series 3 shortly after I bought it in 2007. What kind of leverage can I have when I buy my next machine? What will PLS on a new one cost?
> Thanks so much!
> Bill


Multi-set discount will give you lifetime on a new TiVo for $400 instead of $500.

Getting $99 lifetime on an older one when you buy a new one requires that you already have, and have had for awhile, the older not yet lifetimed unit.

That way they get another $99 out of you instead of $0 when you discontinue using it because you got a new one.


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