# Top Shot - Entire Season



## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Team competitions with guns and a survivor round each week.

Yeah, it's Survivor with guns.

Watched this ep, not sure if I'll watch any more.

Watching guys pull triggers and explode targets gets old fast.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm 3/4 of the way through it. I like it well enough, I'll be keeping the SP.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Range shooting is boring. I want the trick shots.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Yeah I was expecting to see some of the skilled trick shooters. I will keep the season pass but I don't expect it to be great.


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## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

I was amused how they voted - shoot the dude's target you want to vote out.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Gregor said:


> Yeah, it's Survivor with guns.


With "Survivor:Austrailia" alum Colby doing his Jeff Probst impression.

Perfect "TiVo" show. FF through all the BS, and just watch the shooting.

Oh, and freeze-frame on the shot from behind of the female contestant prone on the ground, legs splayed, as she was spotting. 

I will say though that the super-duper-mega-slow-motion they've got going on is really cool.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

I'll keep watching but I wish they spent more time on the shooting and less on the BS. I really thought the red team would beat the blue. 

I'm rooting for the 'kid' and glad that kicked ass on the elimination round.

Wish he (the kid) spent more time discussing the elements of long range shooting with wind. Proper zero techniques etc. 

They should have had several moving targets or maybe have it move once you missed once. Nobody stands still after being shot ad. 

I need some targets like those. Tannerite works well but those look nice too.

Hope they went out to Big Sandy and one of the rounds was who could shoot down the radio controlled airplane with a MG42 or something.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

This will probably be of interest to everyone who was disappointed by _Top Shot_.

I came across a show on The Military Channel called _Top Sniper_. It's filmed at a military sniper training competetion held at Fort Benning.

There's absolutely *zero* Survivoresque nonsense. The competition clips are interspersed with documentary-style commentary discussing the various weapons systems and sniper team methodologies, as well as the real-world scenarios that the various competitions are meant to prepare the teams to experience.

The only negative is that most of the time they don't cleanly show and entire engagement, they just show highlights. But even with that, this show is much better than the contrived stuff on _Top Shot_.

There's a 4 episode mini-marathon that's airing on 6/20 from noon to 4pm. I'm not sure if that's the entirety of the series or not, but according to the guide data it will be episodes 1-4.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

I'm watching but only for the shooting. I'm looking forward to the different weapons like a bow or knives or a spear or something. I FF through all the drama and stick with the competition.

The show pretty much sucks but I've got nothing better to watch in the summer.


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

busyba said:


> Oh, and freeze-frame on the shot from behind of the female contestant prone on the ground, legs splayed, as she was spotting.


Would you say you get out of the house much? Not at all? 

Good call on the Jeff Probst impersonation. I thought the same thing when I watched the first episode. I wonder if JP coached him a bit?

I will keep the SP. I did enjoy watching the kid take it to them in the first round. I think as they go forward they might start to trick it up a bit more.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

We're watching this. I didn't know when it started that Colby Donaldson from Survivor was hosting it. But, it's a nice surprise. He's totally sounding like Probst though.

We like the show ok, but with so little to watch during the summer, we'll probably watch the whole season of this.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

I thought it was lame the Red team got to choose who sat out on the Blue team. Because they lost the week before they get to penalize the other team?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

ClutchBrake said:


> I thought it was lame the Red team got to choose who sat out on the Blue team. Because they lost the week before they get to penalize the other team?


Guess this is the thread for the WHOLE series, not just the first one. Not that it's a big spoiler 

I enjoy the show, just skip the BS stuff, it's cool seeing the old rifles they used and such, and looking forward to different weapons.

I love anything sniper/shooting related

My Dad actually came in 3rd (Team rifle target shooting) in the Pan American games back in the day (top 2 went to the Olympics)


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Guess this is the thread for the WHOLE series, not just the first one. Not that it's a big spoiler
> 
> I enjoy the show, just skip the BS stuff, it's cool seeing the old rifles they used and such, and looking forward to different weapons.
> 
> ...


Sorry. 

Wasn't even thinking about it not being a thread for the whole series.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Brad or Bill. I don't care for either, but after the incident with Bill and Kelly... glad Bill left. What a whackjob. I can't stand Brad's whining but sort of glad he is back as it makes for good or should I say entertaining tv. Blue sure is kicking their asses.

Sure is windy where they shoot. Every competition has been windy.


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## ahartman (Dec 28, 2001)

It's a shame it's not a true team competition - it's a series of individual competitions, like a relay race.

Glad to see something other than a firearm - the crossbow at the elimination was a neat switch. I'm hoping for spears, slingshots, blow guns, etc. at some point in the season, too - if only to hear that Brad dude whine about it some more.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

A few us also discussed this show on the "Got Guns" thread over at Happy Hour.



MikeMar said:


> I enjoy the show, just skip the BS stuff, it's cool seeing the old rifles they used and such, and looking forward to different weapons.


That's what I sometimes do, though the "Survivoresque" stuff doesn't really bother me. The interpersonal conflicts are more of a background to the real meat and potatoes, which is the various competitions.



> My Dad actually came in 3rd (Team rifle target shooting) in the Pan American games back in the day (top 2 went to the Olympics)


Good for your Dad, too bad he missed the Olympics "just by that much."



jeepair said:


> Brad or Bill. I don't care for either, but after the incident with Bill and Kelly... glad Bill left. What a whackjob. I can't stand Brad's whining but sort of glad he is back as it makes for good or should I say entertaining tv. Blue sure is kicking their asses.


I liked Bill up until this last episode. Yeah Kelly was being immature with his stupid comment, but Bill should have just accepted the apology and moved on. Nobody said they had to be best buddies, but the whole "pretend he's not in the room with me" was just childish.

Bill was the only one who had any real beef with Kelly, and it wasn't all that substantial. Not surprisingly, Kelly's target at elimination only had one hole in it, and that was from Bill.

Brad OTOH is annoying everybody. He has the talent, but when things don't go his way (first it was because he's not used to Berettas, then it's because he's not used to bow and arrow) he whines and whines and whines.



> Sure is windy where they shoot. Every competition has been windy.


I believe the area where the range is located is between the Santa Clarita and Antelope Valleys, and yes that area can get quite windy.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

Not much chatter. I'm enjoying the show, although I think Iain is a d-bag.

The concept has promise, I know I wish I could compete in an amatuer version of it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Once the Blue Team conspiracy to get rid of their weakest link (who happened to be the expert in historical firearms) was successful, I was ROFL at the preview for the next episode...


Spoiler



...where the teams are to compete using, you guessed it, historical firearms.   


I might actually not FF past the blahblahblah next ep, just to see if anybody says "D'OH!"


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

HIHZia said:


> although I think Iain is a d-bag.


Why do you say that? Everybody on his team seems to like him, and I don't see any conflicts between him and any red team members either.

Conniving?...maybe. D-bag?...I don't see it.

Speaking of blue team...is there some "chemistry" going on between Chris and Tara? It seems like on the interpersonal footage, I'm always seeing those two together, and on one clip I could swear I saw Chris with his hands on her shoulders.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

RonDawg said:


> I liked Bill up until this last episode. Yeah Kelly was being immature with his stupid comment, but Bill should have just accepted the apology and moved on. Nobody said they had to be best buddies, but the whole "pretend he's not in the room with me" was just childish.


It was actually a pretty amusing comment - something along the lines of his ex-wife's boyfriend killing himself and Kelly quipping "wow, she must really be bad" (that was it, wasn't it??). Sure, it was in poor taste, but the way Bill acted over it was as if Kelly killed Bill's puppy or something. Talk about an over-reaction on Bill's part. Accept the apology and move on - what a tool.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Necromancer2006 said:


> It was actually a pretty amusing comment - something along the lines of his ex-wife's boyfriend killing himself and Kelly quipping "wow, she must really be bad" (that was it, wasn't it??). Sure, it was in poor taste, but the way Bill acted over it was as if Kelly killed Bill's puppy or something. Talk about an over-reaction on Bill's part. Accept the apology and move on - what a tool.


I fast forward through most of the show but I think it was something along the lines of Bill's fiance's ex committed suicide. Kelly commented, "Wow. Is she really that bad?" or something along the lines.

It was a really poor taste off the cuff comment. But at Kelly's age you simply don't have the filter to stop comments like that sometimes. I know I didn't at that age and stuck my foot in my mouth more than once. You feel horrible and embarrassed and all you can do is apologize.

While I can understand Bill being upset how he handled it was absurd. You take the apology, let him know you are still a bit upset, and let it go. I'm glad he was eliminated hope upon viewing the show he has moved on.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

If Bill would have hated his ex and their divorce was incredibly brutal, that kind of comment would have been hilarious. Instead, Kelly didn't fully understand the background and his joke bombed. I don't think it warranted the absolute hatred towards Kelly that was Bill's reaction at all.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

RonDawg said:


> Why do you say that? Everybody on his team seems to like him, and I don't see any conflicts between him and any red team members either.
> 
> Conniving?...maybe. D-bag?...I don't see it.
> 
> Speaking of blue team...is there some "chemistry" going on between Chris and Tara? It seems like on the interpersonal footage, I'm always seeing those two together, and on one clip I could swear I saw Chris with his hands on her shoulders.


I think it was the feeling I got from him the he wanted the team to send him specifically to eliminate Jim, like he coudn't concieve he might lose. He seemed like he wanted to be the executioner. Maybe I mis-read it, but that's how he came off to me.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

HIHZia said:


> I think it was the feeling I got from him the he wanted the team to send him specifically to eliminate Jim, like he coudn't concieve he might lose. He seemed like he wanted to be the executioner. Maybe I mis-read it, but that's how he came off to me.


That's exactly it, but (after some convincing) that was with the total agreement of the other team members, including Jim himself. Jim has always been the blue team's weakest member, even in the eyes of Jim.

I think Jim simply wanted off the range, and used this as his opportunity to do so without the theatrics of the red team.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Was there a new show this week? My TiVo didn't record anything but there could of been a conflict.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

snowjay said:


> Was there a new show this week? My TiVo didn't record anything but there could of been a conflict.


Probably not, on account of the holiday weekend.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Rerun on 7/4, new shows return 7/11.

Still have the SP but I'm rapidly losing interest.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Necromancer2006 said:


> If Bill would have hated his ex and their divorce was incredibly brutal, that kind of comment would have been hilarious. Instead, Kelly didn't fully understand the background and his joke bombed. I don't think it warranted the absolute hatred towards Kelly that was Bill's reaction at all.


According to the discussions over at the History Channel website, apparently Bill and Kelly have since "buried the hatchet" on Bill's radio show 2Aradio.com It's in the archive dated 6/24. I'm going to download it later today and take a listen for myself.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

busyba said:


> Probably not, on account of the holiday weekend.





Gregor said:


> Rerun on 7/4, new shows return 7/11.
> 
> Still have the SP but I'm rapidly losing interest.


Thanks guys.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Goodbye Rat Fink. 

The 2 Blue guys shouldn't be suprised... its a "game" not a contest. Of course there will be backstabbing and alliances. I thought it was a pretty good strategy too. 

I enjoyed the Kentucky rifle and the shoot-off. Looking forward to the peacemaker next week.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Please don't talk about future episodes.

I couldn't believe Adam's attitude. How is it worse to tell other people of a plan than it is to come up with the plan in the first place?


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Actually I was rooting for Rat Fink. If anybody was the cancer it was Adam. There are still 5 red team members to eliminate, and as Blake said it is far, far too early to start going after each other. And then he tried to lie about his true intentions during the team meeting. But Blake and JJ didn't buy it, and then even Chris abandoned him by apologizing directly to Caleb.

Adam may have won the battle, but I've got a feeling that Blake and JJ still have their sights set on him for a future elimination challenge. And with him having emerged as the biggest d-bag of the show (even more than Bill) I can't say I won't be necessarily disappointed.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Please don't talk about future episodes.


If you're talking about jeepair and the "peacemaker" the previews for that have already aired.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Thing is I bet if the situation was reversed and Adam found out that Chris was being targeted I bet he would instantly run to Chris and let him know. I guess this would be ok though as they are in an alliance so it is a total differrent situation.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

RonDawg said:


> If you're talking about jeepair and the "peacemaker" the previews for that have already aired.


Previews are not considered part of the episode here at this Forum.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Einselen said:


> Previews are not considered part of the episode here at this Forum.


But it's not like jeepair gave away anything. Unless he works for History Channel, or personally knows the contestants, he knows no more about next week's episode than you or me.



Spoiler



And for those not aware, his "peacemaker" reference has to do with the gun (Colt Peacemaker) on next week's episode.


 Again not a surprise for anybody who watched last night's episode all the way to the end, when previews for next week's episode was shown.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Einselen said:


> Thing is I bet if the situation was reversed and Adam found out that Chris was being targeted I bet he would instantly run to Chris and let him know. I guess this would be ok though as they are in an alliance so it is a total differrent situation.


No Adam would have just formed a different alliance. For all his talk about "sleaze" in regards to Caleb, it's a situation where it takes one to know one.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

RonDawg said:


> But it's not like jeepair gave away anything. Unless he works for History Channel, or personally knows the contestants, he knows no more about next week's episode than you or me.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Again not a surprise for anybody who watched last night's episode all the way to the end, when previews for next week's episode was shown.


I agree that his spoiler was a minor one but technically still a spoiler in regards to the rules here. Even though most shows have the coming next week tacked on at the end those are considered spoilers here and should be properly tagged. Many viewers here will stop the playback/recording when they see previews for the following week.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether or not jeepair "spoiled" anything. Especially when what he revealed can be easily (and often accidentally) discovered by simply poking around your DVR's EPG or To Do List.

Or worse, by seeing next week's preview by watching another show, and not necessarily on History Channel either.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Sheesh, someones underpants are too tight. At least it has people talking in this topic. 

Here's a spoiler... someone leaves next week. wow. 

FYI, I never watch previews (can't stand them) because I want to watch without knowing anything. I don't consider what I said a preview or spoiler. If so sorry, but then I get to call you Rat Fink because I feel like it. lol.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

As has been mentioned, previews for next week are considered "spoilers". Even if you personally like to watch the previews or read the episode descriptions ahead of time, I would appreciate it if you would follow the forum guidelines and respect those of us who choose to go into next week's episode "unspoiled".


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeepair said:


> Here's a spoiler... someone leaves next week. wow.


Another spoiler....



Spoiler



guns are involved


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

Adam sure was throwing Caleb under the bus as hard as he could, all to deflect attention away from the fact the he was the real cancer in the team, not Caleb.

I have a feeling he's on the next to go list for the blue team.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Adam is sure a piece of work. I don't even know where to begin with him, I would of liked to see Caleb win.

I wouldn't mind firing a model 73 sometime, they certainly look like fun. Reminds me of my very first cap gun I got as a kid.


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

Considering the title of this thread only includes the pilot episode, technically everything after post 12 is in violation of the spoiler policy.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Ugh. This is the exact kind of nonsense that led me to stop watching Survivor after a season and a half. All the pissing and moaning about betrayal and backstabbing when that's what the freaking game is all about.

And Adam is a whiny little *****. For all his complaining about the "rat fink" and how a rat is considered amongst him and his fellow Marines to be the lowest of the low, it makes me wonder what his Marines would think about his being a traitor to his unit. 

Surely, a Marine who would frag one of his brothers is a much lower form of scum than the Marine who would warn his compatriots of the treachery.

Caleb's last shot should have been right between Adam's beady little eyes.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

busyba said:


> Surely, a Marine who would frag one of his brothers is a much lower form of scum than the Marine who would warn his compatriots of the treachery.


My sentiments exactly.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Here is an article about Tara:

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/television/2502354,CST-FTR-topshot16.article


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## MarkofT (Jul 27, 2001)

I find no evidence of any sort of strategic thinking on the part of the Red Team. The second shooter should have won the game, just by settling for a 4 of a Kind or a Full House and using their spare shots to block the first shooter.

And if you ever find yourself sitting at a poker table, the Spade Royal Flush beats the Hearts Royal Flush.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Range shooting is boring. I want the trick shots.


Fun to do, not so much fun to watch.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Adam is definitely maintaining his role as the show's d-bag. As a member of Blue Team, it's none of his bleep-ing business who Red Team votes off. He had no right to lecture Denny about why Denny didn't insist on being the one voted off.

Denny once again played the gentlemanly role. He told the others he wouldn't hold it against them if they voted for him, and yet Denny only got one bullet hole on his target. In a passive aggressive sort of way, he also told Adam to bug off with his "It is what it is, good, bad or otherwise" response.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Range shooting is boring. I want the trick shots.





murgatroyd said:


> Fun to do, not so much fun to watch.





Spoiler



The episode with the trick shots is next week.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

As the blue team said... "a plan" sure makes a difference. Then again, the red team sucked so bad it wouldn't have made a difference in the order of shooting.

LOL at the elimination. How many times have we watched people playing cards in the house? I suppose they could have been playing solitare or blackjack. Andre shooting a 2? OMG.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

RonDawg said:


> Adam is definitely maintaining his role as the show's d-bag. As a member of Blue Team, it's none of his bleep-ing business who Red Team votes off. He had no right to lecture Denny about why Denny didn't insist on being the one voted off.
> 
> Denny once again played the gentlemanly role. He told the others he wouldn't hold it against them if they voted for him, and yet Denny only got one bullet hole on his target. In a passive aggressive sort of way, he also told Adam to bug off with his "It is what it is, good, bad or otherwise" response.


I concur.

As for the elimination... I haven't played much poker but I know not to shoot a two for my first card!


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeepair said:


> LOL at the elimination. How many times have we watched people playing cards in the house? I suppose they could have been playing solitare or blackjack. Andre shooting a 2? OMG.





snowjay said:


> As for the elimination... I haven't played much poker but I know not to shoot a two for my first card!


I remember seeing Brad holding his head in absolute disbelief when Andre did that. Then again I was holding my head in absolute disbelief when Denny did as poorly as he did. This was supposed to have been *his* glorious moment.

Speaking of Andre, at least on the west coast feed of the show they put a banner on the bottom of the screen (just before the elimination shoot) showing the results of an online poll they conducted. A whopping 70% thought Andre should go home. The lopsided nature of the vote surprised me, since Kelly did just about as bad, and neither one stood out in their conduct either good or bad.

Compare those results to episode 3 when Bill and Brad were on the chopping block, and it was only 49% Bill vs. 51% Brad. This was the episode when Bill was holding the d-bag title with his attitude towards Kelly, while Brad had pretty much learned to calm down and stop blaming everything else by then.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MarkofT said:


> And if you ever find yourself sitting at a poker table, the Spade Royal Flush beats the Hearts Royal Flush.


WAT???


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

MarkofT said:


> And if you ever find yourself sitting at a poker table, the Spade Royal Flush beats the Hearts Royal Flush.


???

No it doesn't - there is no difference between the suits. A Royal flush in any suit versus a Royal flush in any other suit results in a push.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

RonDawg said:


> The lopsided nature of the vote surprised me, since Kelly did just about as bad, and neither one stood out in their conduct either good or bad.


I like how Kelly changed the pool table sign in the previous episode to "Act Your Age".


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm thinking that in that poker challenge, whoever gets to shoot first has a huge advantage, assuming no misses (which, of course, is a pretty big assumption).

I haven't bothered to work out all the possibilities, but I'm pretty sure that if you assume no missed shots and both shooters employing optimal strategies, the first shooter should win every single time.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

busyba said:


> I'm thinking that in that poker challenge, whoever gets to shoot first has a huge advantage, assuming no misses (which, of course, is a pretty big assumption).
> 
> I haven't bothered to work out all the possibilities, but I'm pretty sure that if you assume no missed shots and both shooters employing optimal strategies, the first shooter should win every single time.


How? both go for a straight flush, if no misses, you both get yours, tie


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> How? both go for a straight flush, if no misses, you both get yours, tie


I was thinking that the player who goes first could force an advantage to going second after the initial tie due to the odd number of cards in the deck after the first round, but as far as I can tell it still ends in a tie after 4 rounds.

BTW, you *don't* go for the Royal. Not blindly anyway. If you go for the royal, either shooting first or second, your opponent can go for Aces Full and make it and also block the Royal if you don't give up your Royal to block him.

As far as I can tell after giving it a bit of thought (but not enough thought that I feel I can say so definitively) it seems to me that assuming no misses, both players employing perfect strategy can force a tie shooting first or second (perfect strategy in this case being mirroring your opponent to force the tie over and over).

Given that, it seems to me that optimal strategy in the shooting version of this game is to mirror your opponent's moves exactly until you can get two cards in a row due to your opponent missing, and thus ganing the tactical advantage. If you get to pick two cards in a row, and you don't miss after that, you are almost completely unbeatable.

If that's true, then I think the first player to shoot has a _very very small_ advantage since he can afford to miss his first shot without putting himself at a disadvantage.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Of course, even someone well versed in both poker and game theory is probably unlikely to figure that all out in the small amount of time between being told what the game is and when they had to start shooting.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> I like how Kelly changed the pool table sign in the previous episode to "Act Your Age".


It wasn't Kelly, it was the blue shirt guy who left the last week.

And on the polling numbers, perhaps everybody remembers Andre missing a bazillion shots during the first round.


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## Mr Flippant (Jan 2, 2009)

Andre was the better shot in this case, he just did not know how to play poker. Kind of a poor challenge if you ask me.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jeepair said:


> It wasn't Kelly, it was the blue shirt guy who left the last week


No, it was Kelly. Here's a link to the episode. Watch from 35:20 to 35:50


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeepair said:


> And on the polling numbers, perhaps everybody remembers Andre missing a bazillion shots during the first round.


As did Kelly and Denny as well.



Mr Flippant said:


> Andre was the better shot in this case, he just did not know how to play poker.


Neither did Kelly, who said he would have to frequently refer to the board. Pete called them both "the two worst poker players in the world."


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> No, it was Kelly. Here's a link to the episode. Watch from 35:20 to 35:50


Wow, I am corrected, you are right. I guess I heard Caleb speak and assumed it was him. Nice.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but... enough of the tape on the glasses. They should have fired enough rounds over their lives to train their eyes. Both eyes open and use your dominent eye... focus... bang.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeepair said:


> Wow, I am corrected, you are right. I guess I heard Caleb speak and assumed it was him. Nice.


Kelly was also wearing a dark blue t shirt when he did that, so it's an easy assumption to make if you weren't paying close attention.



> I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but... enough of the tape on the glasses. They should have fired enough rounds over their lives to train their eyes. Both eyes open and use your dominent eye... focus... bang.


I don't know about you, but I was always taught to close the non-dominant eye when looking down a gun's sights. However, I don't need tape over my glasses to remind me to do that.


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## MarkofT (Jul 27, 2001)

It's pretty tiring to keep one eye closed and the other open. I find the tape funny because I have no issue having both eyes open when using scopes or viewfinders and would think that is something they would learn with all their practice.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I really enjoyed last night's Trick Shooting episode.



Spoiler



WTF is up with Denny? Last night's episode, and the one from last week, should have been his best performances, because of his familiarity with the weapons and the techniques. Instead, they are his worst so far. If anybody should have been eliminated tonight, it should have been him, and yet he is the only red team member who hasn't had a bullet in his target. He's nice guy and all, but if he couldn't perform well on what is supposed to be his expertise, what more with anything else?



BTW shooters, they are holding auditions for Season 2. Go the History Channel website to apply. Deadline is August 12.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Loved this last ep, good shooting and I love skeet shooting. I did it when I was 7 and did really well.

My Dad used to be an incredible rifle shooter, I really need to get him to watch this show


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> My Dad used to be an incredible rifle shooter, I really need to get him to watch this show


Better yet, get him to audition for Season 2 

http://pilgrimfilms.tv/casting/topshot/


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

RonDawg said:


> Better yet, get him to audition for Season 2
> 
> http://pilgrimfilms.tv/casting/topshot/


I think he's a little past his prime  I don't even think he has shot in at least 20 years.

He did almost make the Olympics though, back in the day


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

That was a good episode. I don't get the reasoning behind who they sent to eliminations though.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

"And now gentlemen, this is when it starts to get hard. Just like I like it."

The one guy was trying not to lose it when the instructor said that.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

I'd love to be on this show, but even though normally my chances would be practically nil, the shooting dates are right over my wedding. Maybe next year.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

So I'm watching the show in the buffer and catch up to real time in the commercial break right before the elimination challenge, and guess what's on? A promo for next week. In the promo they showed, at _least_ 3 times, one of the two in the challenge on the next ep. Gee, I wonder who's going to win when the show comes back on.

Nice work. 

BTW, I was glad they didn't send Kelley this time. That kid has stepped up every time and should never have been sent any time he was.

And JJ was the man after having such a stinker of a practice.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

HIHZia said:


> So I'm watching the show in the buffer and catch up to real time in the commercial break right before the elimination challenge, and guess what's on? A promo for next week. In the promo they showed, at _least_ 3 times, one of the two in the challenge on the next ep. Gee, I wonder who's going to win when the show comes back on.
> 
> Nice work.


Yeah that was a serious faux pas on the part of History Channel.



> BTW, I was glad they didn't send Kelley this time. That kid has stepped up every time and should never have been sent any time he was.


Even the Blue Team was rooting for him...and not because they thought he was their weakest member.



Spoiler



And Denny must have some sort of hidden charm, because History Channel's online poll favored him over Pete by almost 2 to 1


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

Any guesses on the winner? I'd like Kelley to do well. but I think his pistol skills might take him out. J.J. seems to be a badass, I am hoping Adam tanks big time though.

BTW, I'm glad Tara made the right decision, I just don't know why they made it seem like it was such a hard decision. Go be wwith your dad, no thought at all.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I think it was the wrong decision. Her dad knows she loves him. She doesn't need to be there for that.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

She didn't need to go for her Dad, she needed to go for her. You can't see that?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

She loved her dad no matter where she was so no, she didn't need to go for herself either. You can't see that?


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Just finished watching the episode. Interesting, glad Kelly didn't get sent to the challenge.


I'm sorry to see Tara leave but she needed to be with her dad and family.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The slingshot expert, he reminded me of what I imagine Phil Hellmuth would be 40 years from now.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

HIHZia said:


> I'd love to be on this show, but even though normally my chances would be practically nil, the shooting dates are right over my wedding. Maybe next year.


A co-worker of mine knows one of the contestants. It's a lot more hassle than its worth, there's no $100,000 prize, just a bunch of tchotchke worth a $100,000 IRS 1099 form, and stuff is massively edited. You're sequestered for a minimum of 6 weeks, even if you're the first eliminated. (barring family emergencies, obviously)

The guns are hit-and-miss too. Half the guns are well adjusted, and half had their sights way off, and/or had loose mechanisms.

No, I don't know who wins/won.

--Carlos V.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> I think it was the wrong decision. Her dad knows she loves him. She doesn't need to be there for that.


Tara made a no-brainer decision.

Had her father died while she was still on the show, knowing she had the opportunity to be with him for one final time but chose the potential prize money instead, Tara would never have forgiven herself, and I suspect neither would her fellow castmates nor the viewers.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> The guns are hit-and-miss too. Half the guns are well adjusted, and half had their sights way off, and/or had loose mechanisms.


So Brad wasn't being a whiny d-bag after all?


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

HIHZia said:


> BTW, I'm glad Tara made the right decision, I just don't know why they made it seem like it was such a hard decision. Go be wwith your dad, no thought at all.


The show's producers needed some drama since it appears the last two episodes were pretty lacking in the d-bag department. Even Adam is becoming likeable again.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

RonDawg said:


> So Brad wasn't being a whiny d-bag after all?


No, according to my co-worker, the 92F sucks anyway *grin*

--Carlos V.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

RonDawg said:


> Tara made a no-brainer decision..


Obviously not. Just because she made the same decision you would have made doesn't make it a "no-brainer".

The issue, of course, is not choosing the "potential prize money" over her father. It's that Tara and her father know that each loves the other. They don't need to be in each other's presence for that.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> They don't need to be in each other's presence for that.


No, no they don't. But to be able to share his last moments on this plane of existence, they do.

I think she made the right choice too. If I were in the same situation, I would have made the same choice.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Obviously not. Just because she made the same decision you would have made doesn't make it a "no-brainer".
> 
> The issue, of course, is not choosing the "potential prize money" over her father. It's that Tara and her father know that each loves the other. They don't need to be in each other's presence for that.


Given a choice between sticking it out on a reality show where I may or may not get the prize (which as someone already mentioned is not nearly as great as implied) or spending the last moments with a dying close relative, I will choose the latter.

But I guess that's what sets you apart from me. And Tara. And a few other members on this thread.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> No, according to my co-worker, the 92F sucks anyway *grin*


I shot an academy mate's 92F (he is an LASD deputy) and while not as sweet as my Sig, it wasn't so awful that it affected my marksmanship. Which is what Brad was whining about in episode 2.

Of course if the gun was faulty, he would have a legitimate beef.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

SeanC said:


> I think she made the right choice too. If I were in the same situation, I would have made the same choice.


That's fine. I have no problem with that. That doesn't make it a "no-brainer", though.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

RonDawg said:


> I shot an academy mate's 92F (he is an LASD deputy) and while not as sweet as my Sig, it wasn't so awful that it affected my marksmanship. Which is what Brad was whining about in episode 2.
> 
> Of course if the gun was faulty, he would have a legitimate beef.


92f does not suck. I'll say Operator error.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> > That doesn't make it a "no-brainer", though.
> 
> 
> If choosing to be with your dying father with whom you are very close during his last few days on earth vs. sticking it out on a reality show with no guarantee of winning a prize (which again as already mentioned is not as great as they make it out to be) is not a "no-brainer" then I'm not sure what is anymore.
> ...


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeepair said:


> 92f does not suck.


No it doesn't, but comparing a Beretta to a Sig or a Glock is much like comparing a crappy Asian econobox to a nice German sports sedan. Both will get you from point A to point B, but one will feel like a kitchen appliance and the other will make the trip itself feel special.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

My sister in law bailed when her father was dying, too busy and too important.....Then it was too late. She attempted suicide 2 months later. Was that a no brainer?

After a lot of therapy, she's much better now.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

omnetworks said:


> range shooting is boring...


signature spam is even more boring.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Just caught tonight's episode. Who made it, and who didn't, kinda surprised me, though I don't particularly miss one of the ones who was eliminated.



MikeMar said:


> I think he's a little past his prime  I don't even think he has shot in at least 20 years.
> 
> He did almost make the Olympics though, back in the day


Not to worry. Apparently Denny Chapman said on an interview that he has not shot actual live rounds in over 10 years, according to what was posted on the History.com forums. In his shows, Denny uses blanks, and relies on the concussion to shoot out the balloons. I guess that is for safety reasons. That would explain his poor performance in the two competitions that you'd expect him to be extremely good at.

So if Denny can make it most of the way through before eliminated, your Dad still has a good, ummm, shot


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Sorry to see Kelly go, but I'd wager than whoever ran the course first would be one of the two people going. That was a nice course. Maybe have a knife throw first before the pistol stage. 

I'm now pulling for either Peter or Ian.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeepair said:


> Sorry to see Kelly go, but I'd wager than whoever ran the course first would be one of the two people going.


I see some folks on the History.com forum complaining about this, and I disagree.

His target acquisition was pretty quick, and his marksmanship dead accurate, but Kelly loaded far more rounds into the magazines than he needed to, and that cost him precious time.

What is true is that the others who came after him quickly learned from Kelly's mistakes and loaded fewer rounds into the mags. Like Iain who was confident enough to load only one round per mag.


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## Mr Flippant (Jan 2, 2009)

I agree that the first person is at a disadvantage just as it proved to be. They should have done what they had done earlier in the season, have the other shooters in a place where they could not see what happened. Having the other comments made for better tv, but having them be able to learn what they had to do to win was clearly an advantage. Again this is about producing something fun to watch on TV and the best shooter in the event can come in last because of it.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Aww, sad to see Adam go. 


I like Peter and Chris.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I just started watching Top Sniper on the Military channel, only 4 eps and I think it first aired a year or two ago, but it's freaking AWESOME.

There is zero drama, and badass snipping. They have the best snipping teams from around the world and they have to do crazy stuff. One is 30 sec to get as many shots on a human shaped target from a circling helicopter!!!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> I just started watching Top Sniper on the Military channel, only 4 eps and I think it first aired a year or two ago, but it's freaking AWESOME.
> 
> There is zero drama, and badass snipping. They have the best snipping teams from around the world and they have to do crazy stuff. One is 30 sec to get as many shots on a human shaped target from a circling helicopter!!!


Welcome to two months ago.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I wonder if Tara had still been around, would they still have had them change their shirts on the range?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

busyba said:


> Welcome to two months ago.


haha didn't even see that


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

On the fuse cutting challenge, I noticed half the time they emptied the mag on the 92F, the slide didn't lock back. I asked my coworker about that, he said the 92F/92FS is prone to that. With the "thumbs forward" grip, if your thumb is anywhere near the slide release, the slide lock won't engage after the last shot. He says many 1911s are prone to that too.

--Carlos V.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

They should have had the "expert" run the course once and then even the 1st contestant, Kelly, would have had some benefit to see someone else run the course. Better still is what someone above said, have them run the course with nobody watching. Oh well, its over and done with.

On the 92f, when JJ was shooting and fired 10 and squeezed off his 11th... the first thing I noticed is no flinch. 

My slide locks back on the 92, perhaps it depends on which magazine you are using? I'll test several this weekend.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Unbeliever said:


> On the fuse cutting challenge, I noticed half the time they emptied the mag on the 92F, the slide didn't lock back. I asked my coworker about that, he said the 92F/92FS is prone to that. With the "thumbs forward" grip, if your thumb is anywhere near the slide release, the slide lock won't engage after the last shot. He says many 1911s are prone to that too.
> 
> --Carlos V.


It's a common occurrence with a variety of guns. On my Sig I put my strong hand thumb on top of my support, otherwise any incidental contact with the slide lock will prevent it from catching the groove on the slide as it moves back. The guys that were having issues with it likely aren't used to the Beretta and muscle memory just takes over.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

busyba said:


> I wonder if Tara had still been around, would they still have had them change their shirts on the range?


She shared a house with a bunch of testosterone-filled competitors. I don't think she would be all that bashful about it.


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

It's over and I for one will be looking forward to next season.

The finale had some very cool and unique challenges and then they had a brief "where are they now" segment on all 16 contestants.

The winner was


Spoiler



Iain


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

My favorite episode next to the Trick Shooting. All shooting, no drama (other than the drama of competition). 

That was a very, very close race for the final two. For a while there I thought the person who ended up #2 was gonna win it.

I liked how several of the eliminated competitors showed up to cheer on the final two. 

I like the captions at the end as to what each one of them did after the filming was over. My favorite was Brad's, which said that he is now competing with a new pistol "not a Glock." I wonder if it's the Beretta 92F?


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

The "HORSE" segment was too short. I would have liked to see what their imaginations would come up with.

--Carlos V.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

RonDawg said:


> I liked how several of the eliminated competitors showed up to cheer on the final two.


Nobody (save one) "went home" when they were eliminated. They were just moved to another venue and sequestered until the contest was over. So it was easy to "bring them back."

--Carlos V.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> Nobody (save one) "went home" when they were eliminated. They were just moved to another venue and sequestered until the contest was over. So it was easy to "bring them back."


Then how come quite a few of them weren't there? Off the top of my head:

Mike
Jim
Denny
Bill
Brad
Frank

Tara would be the only one who would have an excuse to not be there if they were all sequestered.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

RonDawg said:


> Then how come quite a few of them weren't there?


According to the Host guy right before the last shoot, those who got the privilege to watch were all the ones that made it to the individual challenge stages (all the green shirts).

--Carlos V.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

RonDawg said:


> I like the captions at the end as to what each one of them did after the filming was over. My favorite was Brad's, which said that he is now competing with a new pistol "not a Glock." I wonder if it's the Beretta 92F?


That's what went through my mind as well! LOL

I did some quick searching on the net and didn't turn up anything. Ironically in an interview he gave he said the first gun he shot was the Beretta, they would rent it at the range. In his first year in competition he used a Sig 226.

I liked the episode, at least one of my picks made it into the final even if he didn't win.

I kinda wish all the episodes were elimination like the last few and not team BS and survivor style voting.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> According to the Host guy right before the last shoot, those who got the privilege to watch were all the ones that made it to the individual challenge stages (all the green shirts).


I think they should have had everybody come back, Tara too if she desired.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

snowjay said:


> I kinda wish all the episodes were elimination like the last few and not team BS and survivor style voting.


This.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

That finale was awesome! Loved the horse thing, they should just do ONE solid episode and play a REAL game of horse! Make the shot then others have to try, miss the shot, move on to the next person's shot. It would take forever, but be awesome.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Unbeliever said:


> The "HORSE" segment was too short. I would have liked to see what their imaginations would come up with.


Chris should have set up something really impossible---like firing at shotglasses at 300 yards over the shoulder or something.

As long as JJ didn't make the shot, Chris was into the final...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Chris should have set up something really impossible---like firing at shotglasses at 300 yards over the shoulder or something.
> 
> As long as JJ didn't make the shot, Chris was into the final...


I thought the same thing, and I wonder if they kinda told him off camera NOT to do that, as it would have been very anti-climatic


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh and is it me or does Kelly have like zero personality. He always talks in that monotone serious voice. It really stuck out for me last night in his interview. And man put some gel or something that hair!


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Chris should have set up something really impossible---like firing at shotglasses at 300 yards over the shoulder or something.
> 
> As long as JJ didn't make the shot, Chris was into the final...


Or the complete opposite do a shot he (Chris) for sure won't miss.


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## HiddenSky (Dec 14, 2004)

I enjoyed watching the whole season even though I don't know specifics about guns.



snowjay said:


> I did some quick searching on the net and didn't turn up anything. Ironically in an interview he gave he said the first gun he shot was the Beretta, they would rent it at the range. In his first year in competition he used a Sig 226.


I did some searching last night, too, just to see what competitor posts I could find out there. I found a few posts from Brad, including one where he mentions a model:



BradEngmann said:


> Oh and yes, after the Steel Challenge, I'll be switching to my new CZ SP01 Shadow. Better ergonomics. I'll write up something on it here this week.


Another interesting read was a thread where Adam has been providing some behind the scenes insight. Here's a link to a page in that thread with some post-finale comments (he's USMCBamBam).


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

HiddenSky said:


> Another interesting read was a thread where Adam has been providing some behind the scenes insight. Here's a link to a page in that thread with some post-finale comments (he's USMCBamBam).


If that is Adam, I got to go talk to my co-worker about his sequestering comment.

--Carlos V.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

That final competition was great - incredibly neck and neck, and each guy had a short lead for a while. I had figured very early on that either JJ or Iain would win because each was well-rounded, extremely confident in his abilities, and were able to focus really well, and I was leaning Iain because he was more experienced with a rifle. Was surprised to see JJ get knocked out by Chris, but it was his fault.

Kudos to Chris, though, for not just setting up a tin can at 25 feet. All he had to do was hit his shot - any shot - and it didn't matter if JJ could also hit it. But the Blue Team guys were all very "honorable" men (and women) in that they really wanted it to be a test of abilities, so it wasn't surprising to me that Chris didn't take the easy way out.

And WTF was Peter wearing at the end? Stars and Stripes pants, some crazy shirt, and a tie?


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> And WTF was Peter wearing at the end? Stars and Stripes pants, some crazy shirt, and a tie?


Those were all his "lucky" clothes from previous weeks.


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## HiddenSky (Dec 14, 2004)

Unbeliever said:


> If that is Adam, I got to go talk to my co-worker about his sequestering comment.


I've read through the whole thread - no reason to doubt that it's him.


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