# Series3 FAQ - Review - Photos



## megazone

*NOTE:* Keeping multiple versions of the FAQ in sync is getting to be a little crazy. I will no longer be editing this post with updates. The 'current' version of the FAQ lives at TiVoLovers.com. It has been updated to include the latest on the Series3 as well as the TiVo HD, as it is in the Series3 family.

Series3 Review | TiVo HD Review | Series3 / TiVo HD FAQ | Series3 Photos | TiVo HD Photos

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Also see my Series3 Review and the Series3 Photo thread.

Series3 FAQ

*What is the full name of the product?*
TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder

*What is the model number?*
The S3 is the TCD648250B.

*What are the product highlights?*
See this page.

*What are the main features of the Series3?*
See this page.

*How does the Series3 compare to cable and satellite DVRs?*
See this page.

*Is there an official TiVo Series3 FAQ?*
Yes. See this page.

*What are the official specifications?*
See this page.

*What are the S3's physical dimensions?*
16.5"w x 12.625" x 3.375"h

*Will TiVo allow the transfer of a lifetime subscription from a Series1 or Series2 to a Series3?*
Yes. TiVo is offering to transfer lifetime subscriptions for $199. The Series3 must be purchased from TiVo.com by December 31, 2006, and the transfer must be performed by January 31, 2007. Please see all of the details and requirements at http://www.tivo.com/VIP.

*Are the guides for the Series3 available online?*
Yes. They are available on this page.

*Is the Series3 THX certified?*
Yes. The S3 is the world's first, and only, THX certified DVR.

*What physical ports does the S3 have?*

Power
Phone Line
Digital Audio (Optical)
S-Video
Component (Y, Pb, Pr)
A/V 1 (Audio L/R and composite video)
A/V 2 (Audio L/R and composite video)
Ethernet (10/100baseT)
USB 1
USB 2
HDMI Out
First CableCARD
Second CableCARD
External Storage (E-SATA)
Antenna In
Cable In

*What cables does the S3 come with?*

Power cable
Phone line
Phone splitter
Coaxial RF
A/V cable (composite video, RCA stereo)
Component Video (Y, Pb, Pr)
HDMI

*Does the S3 require a phone line?*
No. While it can be setup with a phone line, it also supports Guided Setup over the network.

*What sources can the S3 be used with?*
The S3 supports NTSC antenna, ATSC antenna, analog cable, and digital cable.

*Does the S3 support satellite?*
No, the S3 works only with antenna and cable. You can use the S2 or S2DT with external satellite boxes.

*How many tuners does the S3 have?*
The S3 has two tuner blocks. Each is capable of tuning NTSC, ATSC, analog cable, and digital cable. CableCARD is required for digital cable.

*How many programs can be recorded at the same time?*
The S3 can record two programs at a time, from any mix of sources.

*Since the S3 has dual tuners, does each tuner have its own 30 minute buffer?*
Yes. There are two, independent buffers.

*Are the antenna and cable channels fully integrated in the guide?*
Yes. The channels from both sources are fully integrated in the guide. Using the S3 with both sources is a seamless experience.

*Does the S3 have a channel scan to find available antenna channels?*
Yes. The S3 has an automatic channel scan. You can edit the list of detected channels in Channels I Receive.

*Does the S3 have an integrated signal meter to test a digital cable connection?*
Yes. The S3 does provide a signal meter for testing reception, for both antenna and digital cable.

*Is CableCARD required to use the S3?*
No, CableCARD is not required to antenna (NTSC or ATSC) or analog cable.

*Does the S3 support unencrypted digital cable channels, aka QAM in-the-clear, without a CableCARD?*
Partially. Clear QAM channels can be tuned directly by entering the correct channel number. Recordings can be scheduled by time and channel. There is no guide data for digital cable channels without CableCARD, and hence no Season Passes or Wish Lists are possible. There is currently no way to manually map channels. TiVo is looking into the possibility to provide mapping in the future.

*How many CableCARDs are required for digital cable?*
The S3 has two CableCARD slots. Two cards will enable both tuners for digital cable.

*Can I use one Mutli-Stream CableCARD, or M-Card?*
No. While the Viewer's Guide has the following on page 102: "Note: A single multi-stream CableCARD decoder installed in the bottom slot on the back of the DVR enables dual tuner functionality.", this is *incorrect!* I spoke with Bob Poniatowski (aka TiVoPony) of TiVo by phone on Thursday, September 21st and he clarified that. He also later made a post at TiVoCommunity.com which contained the following:


> _There is currently no certification process for multi-stream cards (MCARD) in uni-directional devices such as the Series3. We are tracking the creation of the certification for this very closely and will work with CableLabs as this certification is finalized and becomes available. In the mean time, you will need two cable cards in your Series3 to enable dual tuner functionality (MCARDs in a uni-directional device act as SCARDs)._


*What about one single-stream card?*
If only one CableCARD is inserted, the entire system reverts to single-tuner operation. You lose dual-tuner support for antenna and analog cable, as well as digital cable. Unlike the S2DT, the S3 is not capable of asymmetric operation.

*Does the S3 support CableCARD 2.0?*
The CableCARD 2.0 specification has not been finalized at this time, so it is not possible to give a final answer. However, the current CC 2.0 proposal requires hardware the S3 does not have. Therefore, the S3, as it stands today, would not be able to support bidirectional communication for CC 2.0 features such as OnDemand or Switched Digital Video. If a 2.0 card is inserted it should fall back to 1.0 with Multi-Stream.

*Does the S3 work with Verizon FiOS?*
Yes. Verizon supports CableCARD with FiOS.

*Does the S3 work with AT&T U-Verse?*
No. U-Verse is IPTV and does not support CableCARD.

*What should I do if I have problems getting CableCARD from my cable provider?*
All major cable providers are required, by the FCC, to issue CableCARDs to any customer using any Uni-Direction Cable Receiver (UDCR) on CableLabs' list of certified, verified, or self-verified cable products. The TiVo Series3 is on the list.PDF

*What if they still refuse to provide a card?*
Report the incident using this form. Then call TiVo Customer Support and they will work with you to get your cable provider to provide the cards.

*Are the CableCARD installation instructions online?*
Yes. http://www.tivo.com/cablecard

*Does the S3 support multiple video interfaces simultaneously?*
Yes. All of the video output interfaces are available concurrently. You can connect HDMI to your TV and S-Video to your Slingbox, etc.

*Can you configure each video interface independently? 16:9 on HDMI and 4:3 on S-Video?*
No. There are global settings for aspect, etc.

*What is the software version of the S3?*
The S3 currently runs 8.0.1a.

*Does the S3 have all of the features found on the S2/S2DT?*
Not quite. 8.0.1a is similar to the feature set found in 7.2. Features introduced in later S2 software updates, such as Recently Deleted, One-Touch Delete, KidZone, TiVoCast, etc, are scheduled to be added in a late 2006 release. Also, at this time, networking features such as Multi-Room Viewing, TiVoToGo, and TiVoToComeBack are not supported.

*Why are network transfers disabled? Will they be enabled?*
TiVo had to disable transfers to comply with Cable Labs CableCARD certification requirements. TiVo is investigating and hopes to enable network transfers in a future update.

*What about Music, Photos, and Home Media Engine?*
All other network features are present, only the video transfer features are disabled.

*Does the S3 support new video formats?*
The decoder used in the S3 supports MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1/WMV9. However, at this time there is not yet a way to load video on the S3, and both ATSC and digital cable are MPEG-2.

*Does the 30-second skip backdoor still work?*
Yes. The SPS30S (Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select) code still toggles 30-second skip support on/off.

*What about the on-screen clock and elapsed time indicator backdoor?*
Yes. The SPS9S code still works as well.

*What size hard drive does the S3 have?*
One 250GB SATA drive.

*Can the storage capacity be expanded?*
The S3 has an eSATA port for external storage expansion. However, the port is not active at this time. It will be enabled in a future update.

*Why isn't the eSATA port enabled yet?*
For the same reason as network transfers. CableLabs needs to certify any method for removing content from the box, including an external drive. In a post at TiVoCommunity.com Bob Poniatowski (aka TiVoPony) of TiVo posted the following:


> _But in a CableCard device digital content can only be moved off of the box through approved outputs with approved content protection technology, including transfers to an external drive. We have submitted our protection technology to CableLabs for their consideration._


*How many hours of analog recordings can the S3 store at the different quality levels?*


Code:


Level  Hours:Minutes
Best    52:00
High    76:24
Medium 120:12
Basic  303:50

*How many hours of HD content can the S3 store?*
The S3 can store up to 35 hours of HD content. Since all digital content is recorded as-received, capacity will depend on the compression of the source material.

*How does the capacity of the S3 compare to other TiVos?*


Code:


Model            GB  Best  High   Medium Basic 
TiVo Series3     250 52:00 76:24  120:12 303:50 
Humax T2500      250 85:54 137:41 181:23 301:51 
Toshiba RS-TX20  120 32    46     94     141 
Pioneer DVR-810H 80  16    30     62     93 
TiVo Series2DT   80  25:20 40:05  52:32  86:51

*What does that mean for video quality? How does in compare in GB/hour, as an indication of bitrate?*


Code:


Model            GB  Best High Medium Basic 
TiVo Series3     250 4.81 3.27 2.08   0.82 
Humax T2500      250 2.91 1.82 1.38   0.83 
Toshiba RS-TX20  120 4.50 2.61 1.28   0.85 
Pioneer DVR-810H 80  5.00 2.67 1.29   0.86 
TiVo Series2DT   80  3.16 2.00 1.52   0.92

As you can see, the S3 uses much more space per unit time at all but Basic quality. This implies a much higher bitrate, and hence a higher picture quality. Which, subjectively, does appear to be the case.

*Which CPU does the S3 use?*
It is hidden under a heat sink, but it is believed to be the BCM7038.

*Which decoder does the S3 use?*
Broadcom BCM7411

*Which MPEG-2 encoders does the S3 use for analog recordings?*
Two Broadcom BCM7042

*What is the speed of the Ethernet port?*
It is a 10/100baseT port.

*Is WiFi built in to the S3?*
No. However, the TiVo 802.11g USB WiFi adapter works very well with the S3. See http://www.tivo.com/adapters for a list of supported adapters.

*How much memory does the S3 have?*
The S3 has 128MB of memory for the general system, and additional memory dedicated to the encoders.

*Does the S3 have a built-in Closed Captioning decoder?*
Yes. The S3 can decode both analog and digital closed captions internally and overlay them on the video output.

*How easy is it to control the Closed Captioning?*
In the channel banner for a recording or LiveTV there is a CC icon on the right. Selecting that takes you directly to the settings screen where you can control the captions. When you're done, 'Left' takes you back to the program. Very easy.

*What video output formats does the S3 support?*

Native
720p Hybrid
1080i Hybrid
480i Fixed
480p Fixed
720p Fixed
1080i Fixed

*What does Native mean? Hybrid? Fixed?*
Native means that the S3 outputs the video in whichever format it was received in - 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Hybrid modes convert all HD content to the resolution specified, and all SD content to 480p. Fixed modes convert all video to the resolution specified.

*How do you setup on TVs with a fixed input format?*
There is a 'Format' button on the front of the S3 which allows you to toggle through the four output formats to force the S3 to use the correct format for the display.

*What aspect ratio displays does the S3 support?*
The S3 supports three aspect ratio settings:

16:9 Widescreen
4:3 Smart Screen (4:3 SD, 16:9 HD)
4:3 Classic Screen (4:3 only)

*Does the S3 have different aspect correction modes?*
Yes. The S3 has three modes:

Full, which will stretch the image to fit your screen.
Panel, which uses letterboxing/pillarboxing.
Zoom, which zooms in on the image. Used for widescreen content broadcast with letterboxing in a 4:3 signal.

*Can the Zoom level be adjusted?*
No. Zoom is a fixed setting.

*Can the color of the letterboxing be changed?*
There are two options - Gray or Black.

*What resolution are the TiVo menus in Native mode?*
In native mode the TiVo screens are 720p.

*What about the applications in Music, Photos, Products, & More?*
The applications are 720p. Photo viewing is still SD, an update to an HD photo application is planned for late 2006.

*Is there an indication of the current video output resolution?*
Yes. The front panel OLED display indicates 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

*Is there a way to tell the resolution of a recording?*
The episode description in Now Playing says 'HDTV' for all 720p or 1080i recordings. During playback of a recording, or in Live TV, the channel banner includes the video resolution - 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

*Is there a display of the bit-rate?*
No. The S3 does not display the bit-rate of the recording.

*Which digital audio formats does the S3 output?*
The S3 can output Dolby Digital, or it can convert the audio to PCM.

*Does the S3 output digital audio even for channels with analog audio?*
Yes. The digital audio out is always active. For example, you can connect the S3 using only HDMI and have audio for all channels.

*Is there an indication in Now Playing of which recordings are in HD?*
If Groups are turned on there is a special group called 'HDTV Recordings' which groups all of the HD recordings in one place. If Groups are off, there is no indication.

*Is there an indication in the Live TV Guide of which programs are in HD?*
When using the Grid Guide style there is a 'HD' marker on all HD programs. When using the TiVo Live Guide style the only indication is in the episode description at the top. There is no way to tell which programs in the list are HD.

*Is there a way to see only upcoming HD programs?*
No, not really. However, a Keyword Wish List for 'HDTV' may help narrow the search.

*The Season Pass entries now have a double check-mark with a purple background instead of yellow, does that mean anything?*
No. It is simply a stylistic change.

*Does the S3 remote differ from the S2 remote? If so, how?*
Yes, a number of changes have been made:

The independent Select button is gone, the directional pad has been replaced by a 5-way navigator.
It is a learning remote, so no more concerns about the remote not having the codes for your systems.
The thumb buttons have been moved down, and the channel and volume buttons up.
It has a light-sensitive back light. In a dark room the remote lights up when used.
The key feel has changed. There is now a definite 'click'.
It is weighted and textured to provide tactile feedback so the user knows they're holding it the right way.

*Does the S3 remote work with the S2, and vice-versa?*
Yes. In fact, the S1, S2, S3, and even DirecTiVo boxes all use compatible remote codes making their remote cross-compatible. Only the Sony TiVo boxes used a different set of remote codes, making them incompatible.

*Can I give my TiVo Rewards referral to the author of this FAQ?*
Sure! Just enter tivo at megazone dot org as the email address. And thank you!
Version 1.2, Last Revised Saturday, September 23, 2006 00:28 EST


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## lawilson2

When you mentioned network transfers, are you saying that you can't transfer shows from Tivo to Tivo, or are you just referring to Tivo to PC (tivo to go)?


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## megazone

lawilson2 said:


> When you mentioned network transfers, are you saying that you can't transfer shows from Tivo to Tivo, or are you just referring to Tivo to PC (tivo to go)?


Both. There are NO network transfers at this time.


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## bkdtv

> Which processor/decoder does the S3 use?
> Broadcom BCM7411


This is a supplemental video decoder for MPEG-4/VC-1. The primary decoder with the MIPS CPU and DVR functions would be something like the BCM7038.


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## megazone

Well, there is one chip under a heatsink which I couldn't get to - see http://www.tivolovers.com/Photos/Series3-Review/ for a number of internal photos.


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## bkdtv

mega,

Yeah, the BCM7038 would be the chip under the heatsink. It does 90% of the processing in the Series3, so it generates most of the heat. As an older chip manufactured an an older process, so it's not the coolest running chip.


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## megazone

OK, I'll update the FAQ. Thanks for the catch.


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## megazone

The FAQ is also posted here: http://blog.tivolovers.com/347247.html


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## bdraw

Are there HD only Suggestions?


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## davezatz

bdraw said:


> Are there HD only Suggestions?


Hmmm, I don't recall seeing that. Though there is an HD-only folder in the Now Playing list.


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## megazone

bdraw said:


> Are there HD only Suggestions?


Not sure what you mean. Does it record HD as suggestions? Yes. Can you force it to record ONLY HD as Suggestions? No.


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## Fofer

megazone said:


> Not sure what you mean. Does it record HD as suggestions? Yes. Can you force it to record ONLY HD as Suggestions? No.


I suppose you could set up a Wishlist, though, for HD content...


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## megazone

You could do something like Keyword 'HDTV' - but it'd probably catch any program that was talking about HDTV and such.


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## DCIFRTHS

As an FYI to those who may be purchasing replacement drives for the S3, please read the following before spending your money.

After perusing MZ's internal pics of the S3, I notice that the connector on the SATA hard drive is the Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. It makes the connections much less prone to coming lose due to vibration etc. ...

Unfortunately, it is proprietary, and one complete assembly. The power and data cables are attached to one molded connector. If you trace the SATA connector back to the motherboard, it _appears_ to be a standard connector, so there should be no problem replacing the SATA cable. On the other hand, the power connector appears to be soldered into the power supply board.

Unless you are comfortable soldering, it would seem that an adapter (connector) to power the HD, or a WD drive will be necessary to replace the stock S3 HD.

Here is a link to the WD cable. It appears as though the cable in the S3 is a modified version of the one you can purchase directly from WD as the TiVo version has the power cable integrated into the connector.

Of course, there is a good chance that a retail WD HD would work without any modification, as long as it can accept power through the SATA power connector on the WD proprietary connection.

Any brave souls out there  I know I'm not going to mess with mine when I get it. I'll just go the external route, or possible upgrade with a larger HD.


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## Fofer

RE: One S3 TiVo, two TV's

I'm planning on having an HDTV in the living room, where the Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder will be. I suspect I'll use HDMI out, at 1080i.

But I also hope to connect my TV in the adjoining bedroom to the same S3 TiVo, using pre-exisiting S-Video cable. (I'm not sure what the max length is for Component cable, but the S-Video is already there and looks fine with my existing DTiVo and EDTV.)

That said, will this box be capable of outputting signal simultaneously to both of these TV's? Or will I need to toggle something before watching content on each?


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## aaronwt

DCIFRTHS said:


> As an FYI to those who may be purchasing replacement drives for the S3, please read the following before spending your money.
> 
> After perusing MZ's internal pics of the S3, I notice that the connector on the SATA hard drive is the Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. It makes the connections much less prone to coming lose due to vibration etc. ...
> 
> Unfortunately, it is proprietary, and one complete assembly. The power and data cables are attached to one molded connector. If you trace the SATA connector back to the motherboard, it _appears_ to be a standard connector, so there should be no problem replacing the SATA cable. On the other hand, the power connector appears to be soldered into the power supply board.
> 
> Unless you are comfortable soldering, it would seem that an adapter (connector) to power the HD, or a WD drive will be necessary to replace the stock S3 HD.
> 
> Here is a link to the WD cable. It appears as though the cable in the S3 is a modified version of the one you can purchase directly from WD as the TiVo version has the power cable integrated into the connector.
> 
> Of course, there is a good chance that a retail WD HD would work without any modification, as long as it can accept power through the SATA power connector on the WD proprietary connection.
> 
> Any brave souls out there  I know I'm not going to mess with mine when I get it. I'll just go the external route, or possible upgrade with a larger HD.


Worst case you would only be able to use a WD SATA drive as a replacement. That connector is supposed to work with all the WD SATA drives.


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## dkroboth

megazone said:


> *How many CableCARDs are required for digital cable?*
> The S3 has two CableCARD slots. Two single-stream cards, or one multi-stream card, will enable both tuners for digital cable.
> 
> *What about one single-stream card?*
> If only one CableCARD is inserted, the entire system reverts to single-tuner operation. You lose dual-tuner support for antenna and analog cable, as well as digital cable. Unlike the S2DT, the S3 is not capable of asymmetric operation.
> 
> Version 1.0, Last Revised Monday, September 12, 2006 04:06 EST


Awesome FAQ/Review Megazone. Thanks for answering the above question in particular. :up:

Now, I know how many cablecard I need to get. :up:


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## morac

TiVo posted their own FAQ at http://www.tivo.com/2.0.3hdDvr.plt.faqs_2.asp

The biggest thing I noticed was 


> *Will the TiVoToGo feature and Multi-Room Viewing be available on the Series3 HD?*
> As always, TiVo's goal is to make all of the Emmy® award-winning TiVo service features available on all of our hardware platforms. Because TiVo worked directly with Cable Television Laboratories Inc. (CableLabs®) to enable the recording of digital standard definition and high definition channels with the TiVo Series3 HD box, this product has unique requirements, including what content can be taken off of the DVR and in what form. TiVo is working with CableLabs and our own engineering team to enable both Multi-Room Viewing and TiVoToGo functionality in a future release.


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## Andru1313

Well I would like to replace my Series 2 with the HD Tivo but I have Comcast. So now I have a cable box. So if i get 2 cable cards do I keep the cable box for On demand? Or will I lose that featrue?


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## megazone

Andru1313 said:


> Well I would like to replace my Series 2 with the HD Tivo but I have Comcast. So now I have a cable box. So if i get 2 cable cards do I keep the cable box for On demand? Or will I lose that featrue?


If you want OnDemand then you need to keep the box.


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## Fofer

One thing I will _not_ do is buy a TiVo product based on "promised" features. (Just ask the Mac guys waiting for TiVo To Go about that. It's a fool's game, entrenched in frustration.)

I'll buy a TiVo product based on what it offers today, and expect no more. Anything on top of that, later on, is just icing on the cake.

I didn't buy the DirecTiVo until both tuners were enabled, and I'm glad I waited. The price had dropped considerably in the meantime.

That said, I just need to decide if I'd rather have MRV and be able to download shows off my hacked DTiVo's... or HD.

And right now I'm thinking HD might win.


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## Andru1313

Thanks.... I was reading on tivo.com that there is a transfer fee? 199 bucks to transfer service is that correct? Why are they making there loyal customers pay so much.


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## Fofer

Andru1313 said:


> Thanks.... I was reading on tivo.com that there is a transfer fee? 199 bucks to transfer service is that correct? Why are they making there loyal customers pay so much.


Some might say it was generous of them to offer the transfer fee at all. Otherwise, the lifetime option has been discontinued. The fact that they're allowing their "loyal customers" the opportunity to get another lifetime fee for $200 for the new hardware seems like a nice gesture to me.


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## Andru1313

Fofer said:


> Some might say it was generous of them to offer the transfer fee at all. Otherwise, the lifetime option has been discontinued. The fact that they're allowing their "loyal customers" the opportunity to get another lifetime fee for $200 for the new hardware seems like a nice gesture to me.


Oh that is for life time members... I misunderstood. I am not so I could purchase with out haveing to pay a transfer fee. My bad. Thanks for clearing that up!!! :up:


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## cap

So does the series 3 have the wireless Tivo adaptor inside?

The videos I'm watching have it in the box.


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## TK421

Fofer said:


> RE: One S3 TiVo, two TV's
> 
> I'm planning on having an HDTV in the living room, where the Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder will be. I suspect I'll use HDMI out, at 1080i.
> 
> But I also hope to connect my TV in the adjoining bedroom to the same S3 TiVo, using pre-exisiting S-Video cable. (I'm not sure what the max length is for Component cable, but the S-Video is already there and looks fine with my existing DTiVo and EDTV.)
> 
> That said, will this box be capable of outputting signal simultaneously to both of these TV's? Or will I need to toggle something before watching content on each?


I'm wondering about this, too. Megazone, do you know the answer?


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## Fofer

TK421 said:


> I'm wondering about this, too. Megazone, do you know the answer?


Indeed, I'm thinking this will be more of an issue since MRV won't be available (yet? ever?) and since this is a pricey box.

Folks may want to distribute/modulate/share/split the output from this box to multiple TV's.


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## TK421

Fofer said:


> Indeed, I'm thinking this will be more of an issue since MRV won't be available (yet? ever?) and since this is a pricey box.
> 
> Folks may want to distribute/modulate/share/split the output from this box to multiple TV's.


Exactly, I distribute my current S2 to all of the TVs in my house, I'd like to do the same with the S3.


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## jdmass

Regarding DIGITAL audio output: My current SA8300 will output either HDMI or Dolby Digital -- not both. This means that if I want to output DD to my receiver, I get no sound sent to my TV using an HDMI cable (sometimes we want to watch TV w/out turning on the receiver). Can the S3 output non-DD digital through the HDMI and DD through the optical port at the same time?


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## nhey

I'm not familiar with how cablecards are hooked up. I know 2 of them are needed to use both tuners. Does the cable coaxial cable hook up to the cable input on the S3 or does it connect via a splitter to both cablecards?


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## ROrbin

Thank God that they kept the 30 second skip feature! This is a real make or break functionality as far as I'm concerned.

also, more series 3 info at Gizmodo.com

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/feature/...ith-video-two-cablecards-no-waitin-199936.php


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## AJRitz

nhey said:


> I'm not familiar with how cablecards are hooked up. I know 2 of them are needed to use both tuners. Does the cable coaxial cable hook up to the cable input on the S3 or does it connect via a splitter to both cablecards?


CableCards are essentially hardware "keys" to unlock encrypted content. The cable connects to the coaxial terminal on the TiVo box, and then the content that flows over that cable is unencrypted by the CableCards.


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## pstryjew

Mega,

What about output "formats". Does it improve SD programming. Taking S2 and displaying to a 50" TV leave a real blocky picture. Does the Hybrid mode help with the display?

Pete

BTW - Anyone in Central Ohio, what to figure out exact what we need from Time Warner? It'll cost $40 for them to being 2 cable cards to your door.


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## Amnesia

dkroboth said:


> Awesome FAQ/Review Megazone.


+1

Also:
Anyone seen an official list of supported network cards?

Why does the S3 have *two* USB ports?


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## TiVoJerry

Fofer said:


> That said, will this box be capable of outputting signal simultaneously to both of these TV's? Or will I need to toggle something before watching content on each?


All of the outputs function simultaneously. No need to do any toggling.


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## jhonaker

I've held off getting Verizon FiOS because I figured it wouldn't work with TiVo. I just tried to find info about cable cards on their site, but no luck. Could someone point me in the right direction? As happy as I am to get rid of the COX DVR, I'd be even happier to ditch COX altogether.

Thanks.


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## Fofer

TiVoJerry said:


> All of the outputs function simultaneously. No need to do any toggling.


Suh-weeet! Thanks, TiVoJerry. I know this was an issue on the HR10-250, and due to how I distribute video in my house, that was sort of a deal-breaker. I can live without MRV for the time being... and am now looking forward to some dual tuner HD TiVo goodness.


----------



## megazone

pstryjew said:


> What about output "formats". Does it improve SD programming. Taking S2 and displaying to a 50" TV leave a real blocky picture. Does the Hybrid mode help with the display?


SD is improved - I just posted my review at TiVoLovers.com and I'm scrambling to get a bbcode formatted version to post here. But I have a day job and all, so give me a minute. ;-)

As for the other question - ALL outputs are active, nothing to toggle. So you can use the HDMI, component, S-Video, and composite outputs all at the same time if you want.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

No MRV?

Oh well. Guess I am sticking with my HR10-250s and DirecTV until MRV is available.


----------



## megazone

Amnesia said:


> Why does the S3 have *two* USB ports?


Universal standard USB widget. They're cheaper than buying a one socket mount, so why not?


----------



## Bai Shen

DCIFRTHS said:


> As an FYI to those who may be purchasing replacement drives for the S3, please read the following before spending your money.
> 
> After perusing MZ's internal pics of the S3, I notice that the connector on the SATA hard drive is the Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. It makes the connections much less prone to coming lose due to vibration etc. ...
> 
> Unfortunately, it is proprietary, and one complete assembly. The power and data cables are attached to one molded connector. If you trace the SATA connector back to the motherboard, it _appears_ to be a standard connector, so there should be no problem replacing the SATA cable. On the other hand, the power connector appears to be soldered into the power supply board.
> 
> Unless you are comfortable soldering, it would seem that an adapter (connector) to power the HD, or a WD drive will be necessary to replace the stock S3 HD.
> 
> Here is a link to the WD cable. It appears as though the cable in the S3 is a modified version of the one you can purchase directly from WD as the TiVo version has the power cable integrated into the connector.
> 
> Of course, there is a good chance that a retail WD HD would work without any modification, as long as it can accept power through the SATA power connector on the WD proprietary connection.
> 
> Any brave souls out there  I know I'm not going to mess with mine when I get it. I'll just go the external route, or possible upgrade with a larger HD.


I have a WD SATA drive installed in my computer with the linked cable. AFAIK, it only uses the SATA power port to hold itself better onto the drive. And the drive is then run by a regular power connector. And I'm not positive, but it looked like it would connect to any SATA drive. I'll try an' post again when I get a chance to see the pics.


----------



## davezatz

megazone said:


> As for the other question - ALL outputs are active, nothing to toggle. So you can use the HDMI, component, S-Video, and composite outputs all at the same time if you want.


Perfect for us Slingboxers.


----------



## Canoehead

DCIFRTHS said:


> As an FYI to those who may be purchasing replacement drives for the S3, please read the following before spending your money.
> 
> After perusing MZ's internal pics of the S3, I notice that the connector on the SATA hard drive is the Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. It makes the connections much less prone to coming lose due to vibration etc. ...
> 
> Unfortunately, it is proprietary, and one complete assembly. The power and data cables are attached to one molded connector. If you trace the SATA connector back to the motherboard, it _appears_ to be a standard connector, so there should be no problem replacing the SATA cable. On the other hand, the power connector appears to be soldered into the power supply board.


Actually, from what I can tell, the WD proprietary SATA connection is only data, but it covers the normal SATA power connection on the HDD - so you instead get power from an old-style power connector (WD is one of the few to put this on their HDDs) - which is exactly what you see in Megazone's pics.

This is of intense interest to me - since with only 30+/- hours of HD, I NEED MORE STORAGE. I'd prefer to be able to use TTG and store on my PC (should be legal for OTA HD, though when and if we'll ever see it). I'd be OK using the ESATA for now, though that seems unlikely for a while. Thus, it looks like a little dsik upgrade may be in order - you can get a 500gb WD Caviar for under $200, and I can't see any physical reason why it can't be done - don't know about the software. Then keep the orginal disk, buy an enclosure and use it when they enable ESATA.


----------



## hiker

Does the S3 use the same 9 IR code sets as most other TiVos?


----------



## Troy J B

Canoehead said:


> Actually, from what I can tell, the WD proprietary SATA connection is only data, but it covers the normal SATA power connection on the HDD - so you instead get power from an old-style power connector (WD is one of the few to put this on their HDDs) - which is exactly what you see in Megazone's pics.


yep, from the WD link "you must use the legacy power adapter because the SecureConnect cable utilizes the SATA power port to provide additional stability"

Troy


----------



## Agent86

Bai Shen said:


> I have a WD SATA drive installed in my computer with the linked cable. AFAIK, it only uses the SATA power port to hold itself better onto the drive. And the drive is then run by a regular power connector. And I'm not positive, but it looked like it would connect to any SATA drive. I'll try an' post again when I get a chance to see the pics.


This is the best pic Megazone has of it. (Thanks MZ!)

Link to Pic

The SATA port looks normal on the motherboard. The side of the power cable that connects to the power supply is soldered in. Both SATA cable and power cable run into this adapter seperately which hooks into the drive.

Now, the SATA being normal means we can just swap that cable. But looking at the power portion its your standard 4 power wires, they are just run into the back of this connector.

Dollars to donuts you can just use a standard SATA cable for data, clip the power wires from the connector, and stick a standard drive power connector on the ends of the 4 wires.

The main question is has TiVo changed anything about MFS? Its one thing to be able to physically swap the drive, its another to bless it for use in a TiVo. The other question would be does the SATA port on the motherboard provide power like a normal SATA port? If so, then we could use any SATA drive.

Anyone with an S3 want to plug a standard SATA drive into the motherboard with a standard SATA cable and see if it spins up? .


----------



## megazone

hiker said:


> Does the S3 use the same 9 IR code sets as most other TiVos?


Yes.


----------



## hiker

megazone said:


> Yes.


Thanks and thanks for posting the FAQ.


----------



## Bai Shen

Agent86 said:


> This is the best pic Megazone has of it. (Thanks MZ!)
> 
> Link to Pic


I can't see nyud mirrors.


----------



## megazone

Bai Shen said:


> I can't see nyud mirrors.


You can unravel the URL and go directly to my server. I don't want to post the direct URLs because when I did that at CES it crushed my server.


----------



## Agent86

OK - working on the fly here. Even if the SATA port on the TiVo motherboard is devoid of power, we should still be in business with any SATA drive we want. It would go as follows.

Step 1: Remove SATA cable end from motherboard
Step 2: Clip 4 power wires from connector.
Step 3: Remove hard drive
Step 4: Take 4 power wires and put them in a standard power connector. (chop up a Y-Splitter)
Step 5: Convert standard power connector to SATA power connector (link)
Step 6: Attach standard SATA cable to TiVo motherboard
Step 7: Insert drive

Of course, if the Still leaves the questions about MFS though.


----------



## ljg

Is their a way to list all the upcoming HD programming only for the next 14 days to choose which HD only programming to record?


----------



## megazone

ljg said:


> Is their a way to list all the upcoming HD programming only for the next 14 days to choose which HD only programming to record?


None that I found, but that's an interesting idea.

Maybe a Keyword wishlist for HDTV would narrow it down.


----------



## Gator1

_What does Native mean? Hybrid? Fixed?
" Hybrid modes convert all HD content to the resolution specified, and all SD content to 480p. Fixed modes convert all video to the resolution specified._"

It looks like Hybrid and Fixed give the same results. In Hybrid mode if I indicate convert all HD content to 1080i and in Fixed mode I indicated to convert all video to 1080i, do I get the same results?? I am not sure I see the differences between the two.


----------



## Bai Shen

megazone said:


> You can unravel the URL and go directly to my server. I don't want to post the direct URLs because when I did that at CES it crushed my server.


Yeah, I forgot about that. I looked at the picture, an' from what I can tell, it should work fine for any SATA drive.


----------



## megazone

In fixed ALL content is converted to one resolution.

In hybrid HD content is converted to the selected resolution, and SD content is converted to 480p.


----------



## reh523

ljg said:


> Is their a way to list all the upcoming HD programming only for the next 14 days to choose which HD only programming to record?


Titantv.com


----------



## hiker

Are multi-stream cards available from Comcast? Most of Comcast's CSRs I've talked to don't even know what a CableCARD is.


----------



## cap

Megazone how was the transition to cable card after the unit was already running on normal cable? 

Was there a quick upgrade or did you have to rerun guided setup with the cable cards in?


----------



## megazone

You do have to repeat Guided Setup, but it doesn't take that long since it is a partial repeat. 15-20 minutes I guess. Most of that is the data download and unpacking.

It prompts you if you insert or remove a CC to re-run GS, and you can choose to do it now or later.


----------



## cap

Was it hard to get the cable guy to let you install the cable cards?


----------



## megazone

cap said:


> Was it hard to get the cable guy to let you install the cable cards?


Quite the opposite, he took one look at the TiVo and said "Um, why don't you put them in." Or close to it. He was a nice guy, make no mistake, he was just a bit unsure about the TiVo thing.


----------



## MichaelK

and who is your cable company if you dont mind...


----------



## Mike Lang

I've been through at least 5 or 6 HR10-250s due to failing hard drives. What's the warranty situation with these? Is there a protection plan? I have to pay DTV $7/month just so I can keep swapping these out. What will TiVo be charging for a drive replacement?


----------



## Philosofy

If I buy one of these, am I guaranteed that it will work with my cable provider (Comcast in NW Indiana)? I know that was the intention of cable cards, but I want to make sure.


----------



## jfh3

Philosofy said:


> If I buy one of these, am I guaranteed that it will work with my cable provider (Comcast in NW Indiana)? I know that was the intention of cable cards, but I want to make sure.


From TivoJerry's post in another thread:

"All major cable companies (MSOs) are required by the FCC's 'Plug-and-Play' order to provide CableCARDs to any customer using any UDCR (Uni-Directional Cable Receiver) device on CableLabs list of certified, verified or self- verified cable products. The TiVo Series3 HD DVR product is on this list."


----------



## sharding

Does the front panel display show the names of programs only if they're being recorded, or does it show what's on each tuner regardless of whether it's recording?


----------



## davezatz

megazone said:


> Quite the opposite, he took one look at the TiVo and said "Um, why don't you put them in." Or close to it. He was a nice guy, make no mistake, he was just a bit unsure about the TiVo thing.


Mine was a disaster. One non visit, two visits. countless time on the phone. My bill is screwed up, my channel lineup switched several times. Very frustrating. They wouldn't let me "install" them, so they had to futz around for an hour on the first visit. At least they did try to follow the directions TiVo provided which was a smart strategy to provide.



sharding said:


> Does the front panel display show the names of programs only if they're being recorded, or does it show what's on each tuner regardless of whether it's recording?


Currently mine only shows what's recording. I'd like it to show what is on and then toggle the little red light when it's recording. I assume that's the plan?


----------



## eddyj

I checked with my local Comcast office that they said I could pick up a cable card any time, that there is no charge. Is this possible? Sounds highly unlikely they would provide anything for free! Unfortunately, this is for my brother, who is thinking of getting an S3 and not for me (I have DIRECTV).


----------



## davezatz

eddyj said:


> I checked with my local Comcast office that they said I could pick up a cable card any time, that there is no charge. Is this possible? Sounds highly unlikely they would provide anything for free! Unfortunately, this is for my brother, who is thinking of getting an S3 and not for me (I have DIRECTV).


Both my CableCARDs are free, though Comcast was totally confused and wanted to charge for digital service to two TVs.


----------



## megazone

sharding said:


> Does the front panel display show the names of programs only if they're being recorded, or does it show what's on each tuner regardless of whether it's recording?


Just when it is recording.


----------



## TiVoJerry

sharding said:


> Does the front panel display show the names of programs only if they're being recorded, or does it show what's on each tuner regardless of whether it's recording?


Just when it's recording (except for Suggestions).

NOTE: I just noticed how I bear a resemblance to megazone's avatar. For the record, that's not me! ;-)


----------



## sharding

davezatz said:


> Currently mine only shows what's recording. I'd like it to show what is on and then toggle the little red light when it's recording.


Yes, I agree. TiVo folks: this is a feature request!


----------



## silentbob

Does my television need to be CableCARD-compatible (i.e., have slots), or is it sufficient that the cards go into the S3 only?


----------



## Amnesia

TV doesn't need slots.


----------



## megazone

silentbob said:


> Does my television need to be CableCARD-compatible (i.e., have slots), or is it sufficient that the cards go into the S3 only?


The Cards go in the TiVo, not the TV - the TV doesn't need slots.


----------



## silentbob

I figured as much, but many thanks for the confirmation.

One thing I didn't see in your great review was discussion of a warranty -- I'm somewhat worried about shelling out $1000 (including transfer of my Series 2 lifetime service) for a relatively unproven new product that may not last long enough. I still have occasional nightmares about the GSoD that required hard drive replacement on my unit two years ago.

Also, once transfer to DVD becomes enabled, about how much HD content will be burnable onto a single disk?


----------



## FireflyFan88

Can the Series 3 be operated by the series 2 remote?


----------



## megazone

I didn't even think about he warranty - I tend to open things up right away.

DVD Video doesn't support HD. DVD is limited to 480p at best. You can put HD files on a data DVD, but that's it.


----------



## megazone

FireflyFan88 said:


> Can the Series 3 be operated by the series 2 remote?


Kind of - the S2 remote lacks buttons that are kind of important, like Aspect.


----------



## davezatz

silentbob said:


> One thing I didn't see in your great review was discussion of a warranty


The S3 manual says there's a limited warranty with 90 days of free labor and one year parts exchange. Within 90 days you may be responsible for shipping, beyond 90 days you may be responsible for shipping and labor. (I've added the word 'may' because I expect TiVo to take care of their high-end customers.)



FireflyFan88 said:


> Can the Series 3 be operated by the series 2 remote?


More important, the S3 remote operates the S2. I like to take the glowing remote with me.


----------



## nyjklein

MZ, 

How does the S3 handle season passes for programs that are on the same channel, but different sources, e.g. if I get CBS-DT both OTA and via digital cable can I control which source is recorded. On the S2DT, with asymmetric connections, i.e. one cable box, one direct cable, it would always prefer the direct cable. 

Thanks, 

Jeff


----------



## bidger

davezatz said:


> More important, the S3 remote operates the S2. I like to take the glowing remote with me.


If I were buying a S3, that would be my priority as well.


----------



## TiVoJerry

nyjklein said:


> MZ,
> 
> How does the S3 handle season passes for programs that are on the same channel, but different sources, e.g. if I get CBS-DT both OTA and via digital cable can I control which source is recorded. On the S2DT, with asymmetric connections, i.e. one cable box, one direct cable, it would always prefer the direct cable.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jeff


Your best bet would be to deselect the channel you never want to record from.


----------



## megazone

nyjklein said:


> How does the S3 handle season passes for programs that are on the same channel, but different sources, e.g. if I get CBS-DT both OTA and via digital cable can I control which source is recorded.


I can't really test it because my OTA sucks. But when I tried setting it up my OTA channels were listed along with my cable channels with a different number. Since SPs are tied to a channel, I would expect to be able to setup the SP for one or the other.

And you can always remove the cable and/or antenna channel to never use it and force using the other version.


----------



## Amnesia

megazone said:


> And you can always remove the cable and/or antenna channel to never use it and force using the other version.


Yeah, but that's not always the best solution.

Take CBS for example. They have a lot of great HD shows. But they also have a number of shows (like _Survivor_ and _60 Minutes_) which are *not* in HD. If I record these shows from the HD channel won't they take up more room (despite the fact that the show itself is SD) than if I had recorded them from the SD channel?


----------



## headless chicken

Is there a feature enabling you to see how much of the HD has been used? In other words, some kind of percentage or a visual display (e.g. bar) that you can access through the menu?


----------



## sharding

Amnesia said:


> Take CBS for example. They have a lot of great HD shows. But they also have a number of shows (like _Survivor_ and _60 Minutes_) which are *not* in HD. If I record these shows from the HD channel won't they take up more room (despite the fact that the show itself is SD) than if I had recorded them from the SD channel?


That's definitely how it works on my Comcast HD DVR. Recording SD shows from the SD channels takes up significantly less room than recording SD shows on the HD channels. However, even SD shows look *MUCH* better on the HD versions of the channels (at least they do with my setup).


----------



## cgould

re the Closed Caption support- is it easily switchable? Menu/setup item, or single button on remote?
Also, does it still work, or break up, at FFwd1 speed?

The Comcast 6412 can't turn off CC w/o poweroff the box, which is extremely annoying. (loses recordings & buffer)
Also, at ffwd speed 1, the stream goes too fast and CC is garbled/lost...

I love My SA Tivo being able to FFwd thru a show at 2x speed, and read (almost) all the dialog on CC... skip boring movie sequences until important dialog comes up 
I hope that still works for ffwding HD content.

I too very much hope Tivo2ComeBack (HD video upload from PC) will get enabled soon.
Thanks for the detailed review and FAQ, and confirmation of Nov date for HD Photos support.


----------



## bferrell

Another question, is there a 30 minute buffer for both tuners? I think the S2DT and Sat variants have this, but wanted to confirm.

Brett


----------



## talmania

According the the FAQ the Tivo menus are in 720p but when it's set to native mode I assume the overlaying menus (where the channel is still displayed in the background) are displayed in the native format too correct? It'd have to as far as I understand it...


----------



## MichaelK

megazone said:


> Kind of - the S2 remote lacks buttons that are kind of important, like Aspect.


does the S3 remote work for S2'?

I think i'd like to grab one for the bedroom just for the backlight and I'm goint to go with an s2-dt there for now...

NEVER MIND- i see it does

thanks!


----------



## MichaelK

Amnesia said:


> Yeah, but that's not always the best solution.
> 
> Take CBS for example. They have a lot of great HD shows. But they also have a number of shows (like _Survivor_ and _60 Minutes_) which are *not* in HD. If I record these shows from the HD channel won't they take up more room (despite the fact that the show itself is SD) than if I had recorded them from the SD channel?


not a problem for SD vs HD (at least not if the HD Directivo is an indicator). WCBS as an example is channel 2, WCBS-DT is 2-1. those are differnt in TIvo's head- seasons passes for survivor go on channel 2, season passes for HD shows go on 2-1.

Actually, i'm even wondering why tivo jerry said to nuke the duplicate HD channel. On Directv WCBS-DT from an antenna is 2-1 from the sat its like 88 (it's int eh 80's sorry I forget which). And I season pass for OTA will go to the OTA channel and one for DBS's version will go to the 80's. On my cable system it's similar- the HD locals are in the 100's. I assume the S3 will differentiate the OTA at 2-1 form the cbale version at 102.

Are there cable systems that Map the locals to the boradcast number? So like 102 is tuned by going to 2-1? That might make a mess....


----------



## Ereth

One thing I haven't seen is whether TiVo includes an HDMI-DVI cable? On the HR10-250 they included both HDMI-HDMI and HDMI-DVI. I'm hoping they do the same here, but if not I'd like to know now so I can go order one. My TV does not have HDMI, but instead has DVI and I'll need the correct cable.


----------



## Gregor

I believe it's HMDI, Ereth. I needed a long one (25') so I ordered it from Blue Jeans Cable, and had it in a few days.


----------



## Ereth

Ok, I was hoping for HDMI-DVI, since they included one with my HDTivo (or should I say my OTHER HDTivo now ). But I'll order one just to be safe. Thanks, Gregor!


----------



## DCIFRTHS

davezatz said:


> Both my CableCARDs are free, though Comcast was totally confused and wanted to charge for digital service to two TVs.


A cable company confused? As in not knowing what to do? Like over-charging you? I just can't believe that


----------



## DCIFRTHS

megazone said:


> Quite the opposite, he took one look at the TiVo and said "Um, why don't you put them in." Or close to it. He was a nice guy, make no mistake, he was just a bit unsure about the TiVo thing.


That's the guy I want when I get my cards installed. I don't like people touching "My Stuff".


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Bai Shen said:


> I have a WD SATA drive installed in my computer with the linked cable. AFAIK, it only uses the SATA power port to hold itself better onto the drive. And the drive is then run by a regular power connector. And I'm not positive, but it looked like it would connect to any SATA drive. I'll try an' post again when I get a chance to see the pics.


According to the information on the WD site, the connector is proprietary, and can't be used on any other brand of drive. I haven't tried it, so I don't know if the information they give is accurate. It could be that the WD connector has additional clips that mate with a WD drive, or more likely, it's because most SATA drives have only one power connector, and it's the SATA design...

The retail WD SATA drives that use this WD connector require a standard power connector as the SATA portion is used for _additional support of the connector_. From the pics I have seen (MZ), the S3 doesn't work this way. The power and data are both supplied to the drive through the *SATA* connections.

In any event, cutting the power cable leads from the S3, and splicing on a SATA power connector would work fine. Its just not my idea of a tidy job, I would prefer a plug in converter.

It's not a major issue, but it did catch my eye, and I figured I would bring it up here before anyone spends money on a drive, and can't get a refund it if doesn't work. I'm betting that Weaknees and PTV Upgrade will have a plug in solution shortly


----------



## megazone

headless chicken said:


> Is there a feature enabling you to see how much of the HD has been used? In other words, some kind of percentage or a visual display (e.g. bar) that you can access through the menu?


Aka a Free Space Indicator? No.


----------



## megazone

Amnesia said:


> Take CBS for example. They have a lot of great HD shows. But they also have a number of shows (like _Survivor_ and _60 Minutes_) which are *not* in HD. If I record these shows from the HD channel won't they take up more room (despite the fact that the show itself is SD) than if I had recorded them from the SD channel?


If they're not broadcast in HD, then they don't take up as much room as HD content. 'HD' channels may carry digital SD programs. So it is hard to tell - and, of course, with analog you pick the encoding quality so the space can vary - a LOT. See the tables in my review. Quality would probably be higher on the digital channel too, even SD.


----------



## megazone

Ereth said:


> One thing I haven't seen is whether TiVo includes an HDMI-DVI cable?


No - the list above in the FAQ is all that's included.


----------



## megazone

talmania said:


> According the the FAQ the Tivo menus are in 720p but when it's set to native mode I assume the overlaying menus (where the channel is still displayed in the background) are displayed in the native format too correct? It'd have to as far as I understand it...


Right, that was referring to the menu screens not overlays on video.


----------



## megazone

bferrell said:


> Another question, is there a 30 minute buffer for both tuners?


Yes.


----------



## megazone

cgould said:


> re the Closed Caption support- is it easily switchable? Menu/setup item, or single button on remote?


In the channel banner on the right is a CC icon. Selecting that jumps right to the CC settings menu. You can set the CC, then 'left' back to the program. Not bad.



> Also, does it still work, or break up, at FFwd1 speed?


I just tried it, works well at 1x - doesn't work at all at 2x or 3x. I tried both the digital CC and standard CC.



> and confirmation of Nov date for HD Photos support.


Note I said late 2006 - TiVo asked me to phrase it as late 2006, or later this year. Not specifically November.


----------



## keenanSR

Is there a manual available online for download yet?


----------



## megazone

keenanSR said:


> Is there a manual available online for download yet?


It doesn't look like it.


----------



## keenanSR

I couldn't find one either, thought I'd double check, thanks.


----------



## lemketron

megazone said:


> Aka a Free Space Indicator? No.


I thought that's what TiVo suggestions were for? 

If there aren't any TiVo suggestions in your Now Playing list, then your drive is full. If there are, then since we know they're the first things to get deleted, you can use that as a rough indicator of how much "free space" is left. With folder support, you even get a count of how many shows are in the Suggestions/FreeSpace folder. 

Of course, if you delete requested shows, it will take a while for the free space to fill with suggestions... which makes me wonder: Isn't there _some_ way that TiVo customer service could transfer my seven years of suggestion training from my vintage S1 to my new S3, or from any box to any replacement box?

I guess it's finally time to start all over again from scratch. Manually reprogramming my massive season pass and keyword lists is not going to be fun either (and in some cases, not possible for season passes of shows that aren't currently running)...


----------



## TiVoToo

Initially I plan to use OTA for HD. After S3 completes its channel scan, will I be able to deselect the DT subchannels from the channel lineup? Will deselecting a subchannel prevent that subchannel from being recorded when a program on the main channel is selected for recording? For example, local channel broadcasts in HD on 6.1, and multicasts weather in SD on 6.2. I would like to deselect 6.2, and have the S3 only record the 6.1 stream. This can save a lot of space. I currently have a HTPC with a MyHD card that I have used for last 3 years as my HD DVR while awaiting the S3. A couple of years ago, the MyHD software was revised to provide option to deselect subchannels from recording. This resulted significant reduction in size of recordings - up to 3GB/hour. As a result, I was able to record an additional 5 1-hour HD shows each week (on a 120GB HDD).


----------



## Amnesia

MichaelK said:


> Actually, i'm even wondering why tivo jerry said to nuke the duplicate HD channel.


You mean the duplicate SD channel, right? That was what I had been planning to do. For example, I'll get rid of the HBO channel so that suggestions will record from HBO-HD instead...in fact, I guess suggestions are really the only reason to get rid of the duplicates...


----------



## cgould

megazone said:


> In the channel banner on the right is a CC icon. Selecting that jumps right to the CC settings menu. You can set the CC, then 'left' back to the program. Not bad.
> 
> I just tried it, works well at 1x - doesn't work at all at 2x or 3x. I tried both the digital CC and standard CC.
> 
> Note I said late 2006 - TiVo asked me to phrase it as late 2006, or later this year. Not specifically November.


Cool, thanks for the quick reply Megazone. Sounds like it works even better than my SA Tivo. Small feature, but surprisingly useful- although no more West Wing w/ fast talkers requiring CC to keep up w/ dialog 

Appreciate the correction re late 2006 HD-Photos date also- must have seen Nov somewhere else , will reset expectations.


----------



## TiVoToo

Amnesia said:


> You mean the duplicate SD channel, right?


No. I mean the subchannels that most terrestrial broadcasters embed in their digital transport (DT) stream. Nominal bandwidth of a ATSC DT stream is about 8.2GB/hour (19.28Mb/s). However, the broadcaster does not have to dedicate this entire bandwidth to a single channel. The standard permits the broadcaster to divide this bandwidth into subchannels. How the bandwidth is allocated is up to the local broadcaster. A broadcaster might select to have a HD channel, and some number of SD subchannels. Of course to do this, the bandwidth dedicated to the HD channel would be reduced by the bandwidth dedicated to the subchannels, which requires more compression on the HD. Many local broadcasters seem to elect to divide their DT bandwidth into a single HD channel and a single SD subchannel (that usually carries weather, or news, or a multicast of their Web streams). You can tell if a broadcaster is using subchannels, because a digital channel scan will return channel assignments like 24.1, 24.2, 24.3, 24.4 for example. 24 is the DT and .1, .2, .3, .4 are the channels in the stream. PBS affiliates are the worse. My local PBS affiliate has 1 HD channel and 3 SD channels on its assigned DT. There are ugly compression artifacts on their HD broadcasts because of this. Usually for HD recording, you would not be interested in recording the entire DT stream, only the HD channel in the stream. If recorder permits this, it will reduce the size of the recording. See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html.

Another question is if the S3 deletes null packets from the TS. This would save even more space. [MyHD software does this trick. Now I think about it, this may have accounted for most of the space savings.]


----------



## tunnelengineer

ok, here's a potentially noob question for you. Does the HDMI cable transmit both the digital video and digital audio form the S3 to the TV, or will I need to use a optical digital audio cable along with the HDMI cable?

I know HDMI can do both, but am specifically asking what the Tivo S3 does.


----------



## TiVoToo

tunnelengineer said:


> ok, here's a potentially noob question for you. Does the HDMI cable transmit both the digital video and digital audio form the S3 to the TV, or will I need to use a optical digital audio cable along with the HDMI cable?
> 
> I know HDMI can do both, but am specifically what the Tivo S3 does.


I believe HDMI audio is two channel only, i.e. - stereo. For multi-channel output, e.g. - Dolby Digital or PCM, you would need to use the optical output into a surround sound receiver.


----------



## danottey

I just want to be clear. I don't have digital cable or HDTV, nor do I plan to get it anytime soon (maybe 5 years from now - or whenever my cable company stops offering non-digital cable). My main interest in getting an S3 over an S2 right now is because I currently have an S1 with lifetime subscription and would like a chance to transfer that lifetime subscription. I figure now is the best opportunity. Though I must admit that I am bummed about no TiVoToGo functionality in the S3. I just have a feeling that it will be offered as a software upgrade, but I do agree I shouldn't base my purchase on that possibility.

The S3 has only one coax input. Does it still record two shows at once? Is this true even if I have no Cablecards AT ALL? I saw reference that if only one cablecard is inserted, the entire box changes to single tuner mode. That didn't make sense to me. But I want to be sure that if I have no Cablecards, I will be able to have dual SD tuners from the single coax cable.


----------



## TiVoToo

danottey said:


> The S3 has only one coax input. Does it still record two shows at once? Is this true even if I have no Cablecards AT ALL? I saw reference that if only one cablecard is inserted, the entire box changes to single tuner mode. That didn't make sense to me. But I want to be sure that if I have no Cablecards, I will be able to have dual SD tuners from the single coax cable.


The S3 has 2 coax inputs - 1 for an antenna, 1 for cable. These are split internally to both of the S3 dual tuners. If you have no CableCard, and no antenna, you can still record 2 channels simultaneously off of your analog cable input. You are correct that if only a single CableCard is installed the S3 operates 'single tuner'.


----------



## cheer

TiVoToo said:


> I believe HDMI audio is two channel only, i.e. - stereo. For multi-channel output, e.g. - Dolby Digital or PCM, you would need to use the optical output into a surround sound receiver.


Not so. HOWEVER, there is a caveat -- MOST TVs do NOT have dolby digital decoders set up to decode audio in via HDMI, so more often than not one ends up with no audio through the TV itself.

The HDMI does indeed pass PCM and/or DD5.1 audio, and when hooked up to a receiver that allows HDMI input the audio sounds great. An optical connection will achieve the same thing, of course.


----------



## MichaelK

megazone said:


> If they're not broadcast in HD, then they don't take up as much room as HD content. 'HD' channels may carry digital SD programs. So it is hard to tell ....


MZ- FYI that's not generally correct.

Most stations transmit HD all the time on their HD channel even if it's just SD content. They upconvert it on their end to HD and send the HD amount of bits. There might be a small savings since there's less data to start with but there's not a major differnce recording Survivor (which is sd) then an hour long HD show recorded from a CBS-DT channel.


----------



## wmcbrine

TiVoToo said:


> For example, local channel broadcasts in HD on 6.1, and multicasts weather in SD on 6.2. I would like to deselect 6.2, and have the S3 only record the 6.1 stream. This can save a lot of space.


It doesn't work like that. The Tivo records individual programs, not "streams" with subchannels. Each subchannel is already separate. So, if you tell it to record a program that's on 6.1, that's all it will record.

Note: I'm speaking based on the HR10-250, but there's no reason at all this would be different with the S3.


----------



## MichaelK

if it's like the HR10-250 you can deselct the SD subchannels, but there's no need to the box only records the stream from teh subchannel you picked in the season pass.

You might want to keep the SD subchannel to record SD programs (i.e. survivor)


----------



## mattn2

TiVoToo said:


> Usually for HD recording, you would not be interested in recording the entire DT stream, only the HD channel in the stream.


The TiVo will only record the *Channel* selected to be recorded. It does not record the stream.

# Matt


----------



## cheer

MichaelK said:


> MZ- FYI that's not generally correct.
> 
> Most stations transmit HD all the time on their HD channel even if it's just SD content. They upconvert it on their end to HD and send the HD amount of bits. There might be a small savings since there's less data to start with but there's not a major differnce recording Survivor (which is sd) then an hour long HD show recorded from a CBS-DT channel.


Really? That's not at all what I've seen. In the Chicago area, there's definitely a difference between SD programming and HD programming broadcast on the same OTA digital channel.

I have seen a couple of instances of this, but nothing widespread.


----------



## hiker

So it looks like there is no way to transfer recordings from my S2 to a S3?


----------



## Fofer

hiker said:


> So it looks like there is no way to transfer recordings from my S2 to a S3?


Nope. Not currently. Maybe some day?


----------



## MichaelK

cheer said:


> Really? That's not at all what I've seen. In the Chicago area, there's definitely a difference between SD programming and HD programming broadcast on the same OTA digital channel.
> 
> I have seen a couple of instances of this, but nothing widespread.


yup- there's threads about it at AVS.

Gnerally  the station engineers are afraid to change the broadcast resolution on any one particular sub-channel. Apparently some Tuners dont handle changes in resolution on the fly so a vierwers screen would go blank until they changed the channel. And that is not acceptable.

They can use different resolutions on different subchannels and turn differnt sub channels on or off throughout the day (PBS does stuff like that alot were they might have X-1 be HD and X-2, x-3, x-4, x-5, x-6 are all SD. during primtime x-1, and x-2 might be active, but during the day x-1 would be off while all the rest might be on).

I would assume that upconverted 480 is easier to compress then 720p or 1080i since there is tons less info. But genreally the station will always send 720p or 1080i and becasue of that there is a much higher 'floor" for the bit rate then what would come from an SD cahnnel.


----------



## ecopoesis

Couple more questions:

Is there a way to setup the output to be 1080i for HD and 480i for SD? Or are the only hybrid options the ones with 480p for SD? I only ask because my old tube HDTV doesn't really like 480p.

Also, hows the speed of the TiVo's guides and channel surfing. Though the various Moto and SA boxes are lacking in the DVR dept, their channel changing and guides are usually an order of magnitude faster then on the Series2.


----------



## TiVoToo

For terrestrial broadcast, the transport stream is a constant 19.28Mb/s regardless of number of subchannels, whether HD or SD, or video compression. If payload is less than 19.28Mb/s, null packets are added to keep bit rate constant. It would be nice if the S3 would drop the null packets when recording as it would make the file sizes smaller, but I doubt that it does.


----------



## hiker

Fofer said:


> Nope. Not currently. Maybe some day?


Wouldn't this work - use the coax output of S2 to coax input of S3 and set save to vcr on S2 and manual record on S3? It may not be the best quality video if this would work but it's better than losing the recordings.


----------



## Fofer

hiker said:


> Wouldn't this work - use the coax output of S2 to coax input of S3 and set save to vcr on S2 and manual record on S3? It may not be the best quality video if this would work but it's better than losing the recordings.


And what would these "manually inserted" recordings be labeled as?

Ouch. No thanks.


----------



## TiVoJerry

danottey said:


> Though I must admit that I am bummed about no TiVoToGo functionality in the S3. I just have a feeling that it will be offered as a software upgrade, but I do agree I shouldn't base my purchase on that possibility.
> 
> The S3 has only one coax input. Does it still record two shows at once? Is this true even if I have no Cablecards AT ALL? I saw reference that if only one cablecard is inserted, the entire box changes to single tuner mode. That didn't make sense to me. But I want to be sure that if I have no Cablecards, I will be able to have dual SD tuners from the single coax cable.


Yes & yes.

However, if you do not have digital cable or HDTV, your best bet is to buy the much less expensive Series 2 DT (dual tuner). It is standard definition and able to record two analog RF channels simultaneously.

Additionally, the DT is capable of performing TiVoToGo right now.


----------



## bobharp

Megazone,
How is the quality of the up-converting of SD content to 480p?

Most of the _quality_  TV programming we are getting these days is SD. I have been kicking around getting a upconverting receiver (HK 745) or a dedicated unit. The S3 would fit the bill.


----------



## ericholst

I am new to the Tivo universe, so excuse my ignorance. Since the S3 has dual tuners, does it have any support for PIP or Picture in Picture? 

I have been waiting for the S3 ever since I got an HD TV, but I am seriously bummed, as I really wanted the TivoToGo. I spend a lot of time in airplanes, I find that watching TV shows on my laptop that I recorded on my MS Media Center PC is a great way to kill time when sitting for extended periods of time at elevations > 30k'! Of course I can't record encrypted or HD content from cable w/ my Media Center PC.


----------



## davezatz

bobharp said:


> Megazone,
> How is the quality of the up-converting of SD content to 480p?
> 
> Most of the _quality_  TV programming we are getting these days is SD. I have been kicking around getting a upconverting receiver (HK 745) or a dedicated unit. The S3 would fit the bill.


Most of the quality TV I get _is_ HD. Discovery, ESPN, and the major networks.

I'm not megazone, but I will tell you SD content looks decent enough. I'll also tell you I'm running SD 4:3 letterboxed. I think this has more to do with my TV than with the S3 though. For example, my TV does a good job display SD in general and stretching 4:3 to 16:9 - it's less noticeable than the TiVo.


----------



## talmania

ecopoesis said:


> Couple more questions:
> 
> Is there a way to setup the output to be 1080i for HD and 480i for SD? Or are the only hybrid options the ones with 480p for SD? I only ask because my old tube HDTV doesn't really like 480p.
> 
> Also, hows the speed of the TiVo's guides and channel surfing. Though the various Moto and SA boxes are lacking in the DVR dept, their channel changing and guides are usually an order of magnitude faster then on the Series2.


As I understand it, you would want to set the S3 to output in native mode. Anything coming in will be sent out in it's native resolution (480i, 720p or 1080i).

Interesting comment about the channel changing and speeds. I always thought my Motorola was lightyears slower than my Tivo (which has sat unused for almost 2 years).


----------



## PDT816

Im a little confused on the asymmetrical/symmetrical modes using cablecards in the Series 3 and the ability to record from two, different input sources simultaneously.

Heres the excerpt from TiVoLovers outstanding review (thanks!)



> There is another 'gotcha' which may catch users unaware. You really need to use no CableCARDs or two (or a single Multi-Stream card). Why? Because the S3 cannot operate in an asymmetric mode, like the S2DT. If you insert only one (single-stream) CableCARD, then the entire unit reverts to single tuner operation. That means you lose the dual-tuner capabilities for antenna and analog cable, not just digital cable. With no CableCARDs installed you have dual-tuner operation for antenna and analog cable, *two CableCARDs gives you dual-tuner digital cable.*


Am I taking this too literally or does installing two cablecards mean that you can still record a digital and OTA program at the same time?


----------



## davezatz

talmania said:


> As I understand it, you would want to set the S3 to output in native mode. Anything coming in will be sent out in it's native resolution (480i, 720p or 1080i).


My TV doesn't natively handle 720p, so I'm using 1080i hybrid or fixed.



ecopoesis said:


> Also, hows the speed of the TiVo's guides and channel surfing. Though the various Moto and SA boxes are lacking in the DVR dept, their channel changing and guides are usually an order of magnitude faster then on the Series2.


I think the 6412 is still faster, however since you have to waste so much time with extra button clicks through thousands of menus, it probably all works out in the end. 



PDT816 said:


> Am I taking this too literally or does installing two cablecards mean that you can still record a digital and OTA program at the same time?


Hm, I'm not sure. If no one answers before I get home tonight I'll try it out and report back if I remember.


----------



## jfh3

Suggestion for addition:

*What should I do if my cable company insists I can't use a cable card in anything other than a TV?*

All major cable companies (MSOs) are required by the FCC's 'Plug-and-Play' order to provide CableCARDs to any customer using any UDCR (Uni-Directional Cable Receiver) device on CableLabs list of certified, verified or self- verified cable products.

The TiVo Series3 HD DVR product is on this list, which can be found here:

http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf

If this doesn't help, report it to Tivo using this form:

http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr_cc.asp

_(primary text from a TivoJerry post)_


----------



## Spiff72

Does anyone know if the digital audio port will output a digital audio signal on an analog cable channel? In other words, does it convert the analog audio signal to digital (PCM for example)? Or is the digital audio output dead when you are tuned to an analog channel?


----------



## bobharp

davezatz said:


> Most of the quality TV I get _is_ HD. Discovery, ESPN, and the major networks.
> 
> I'm not megazone, but I will tell you SD content looks decent enough. I'll also tell you I'm running SD 4:3 letterboxed. I think this has more to do with my TV than with the S3 though. For example, my TV does a good job display SD in general and stretching 4:3 to 16:9 - it's less noticeable than the TiVo.


Thanks Dave.
I'm a local _washintonian_ as well. I've have a Hitachi 42" plasma that does a really good job with SD content. My S2 is attached via s-video now. Do you have Comcast Montgomery?


----------



## the_bode

davezatz said:


> Most of the quality TV I get _is_ HD. Discovery, ESPN, and the major networks. I'm not megazone, but I will tell you SD content looks decent enough.


Keep in mind that if you have a recent high-definition TV, it may very well have a better scaler than any third-party box, the S3 Tivo included. For example, I have a 50" Panasonic plasma, and it does an awesome job displaying SD (480i) content, so I don't let my HR10-250 Tivo do the upconversion--instead, I switch the Tivo to 480i output when I watch SD stuff, and let the TV to the upconversion. Most higher-end Sony and Pioneer TVs have great scalers, too.

Each time you scale, you mess with the image, and lose something... I have a friend who was watching SD (480i) content recorded on his HR10-250, but the Tivo was set to upconvert everything to 720p. The 720p output from the Tivo was routed to his Yamaha AV receiver, that had a Faroudja scaler that was set to upconvert everything to 1080i, which was then fed to a Samsung plasma that had a native resolution of 1366x768, so it internally scaled everything to 768p.

480i -> 720p -> 1080i -> 768p = really, really ugly...

It's best to feed the original signal through all the way to the TV, unless your TV's built-in scaler sucks, and you have a really, really expensive external scaler. For S3 users, this means the "Native" mode will likely give you the best picture quality, IMHO.

My 2 cents.


----------



## cheer

hiker said:



> Wouldn't this work - use the coax output of S2 to coax input of S3 and set save to vcr on S2 and manual record on S3? It may not be the best quality


It would be HORRIBLE. You would be much better off spending $100 on a cheap DVD recorder and dumping them to DVD-R.


----------



## classicsat

PDT816 said:


> Am I taking this too literally or does installing two cablecards mean that you can still record a digital and OTA program at the same time?


For it to record two things from any source, it needs:

No Cablecards
Two single stream Cablecards
One Multistream Cablecard.
One single stream Cablecard would allow it to record only one channel at a time from any source.

Having a cablecard (or two) doesn't disable OTA reception/recording.


----------



## Larry in TN

PDT816 said:


> Im a little confused on the asymmetrical/symmetrical modes using cablecards in the Series 3 and the ability to record from two, different input sources simultaneously.


The Series 3 is fully dual-tuner capable with only one exception--when a single, single-stream cableCARD is installed. In any other configuration it's capable of recording any combination of any two sources.

This issue will be moot in a month or two when multi-stream cableCARDs are available. At that point there'll be no reason to get a single, single-stream card.


----------



## davezatz

bobharp said:


> Thanks Dave.
> I'm a local _washintonian_ as well. I've have a Hitachi 42" plasma that does a really good job with SD content. My S2 is attached via s-video now. Do you have Comcast Montgomery?


I do indeed. Trying to get the CableCARDs and my account set up properly was a big investment in time and an exercise in patience, which I don't have a whole lot of.



the_bode said:


> It's best to feed the original signal through all the way to the TV, unless your TV's built-in scaler sucks, and you have a really, really expensive external scaler. For S3 users, this means the "Native" mode will likely give you the best picture quality, IMHO.


I completely agree. If my CRT handled 720p input, I'd go native. I also have my LG Tuner/Upscaling DVD box output in 1080i. Before the S3 was in the mix, I'd us the LG for HD and ran analog cable direct into the TV and let it's scaler do the work.


----------



## bobharp

Dave,
Comcast told me that I could not have my HD STB (Mot 6200) and a CC at the same time. It would not work. You have to love them. The bad service and attitudes has to be standard company policy. 
Comcast, one of the many companies as screwed up as the government.

Have you ever checked out Don (expect) Libes' blog? 
_Why I love Comcast, Verizon, the FCC, and everyone else._

He loves everyone.


----------



## PDT816

Thank you for the information on the duel ccards.


----------



## shiffrin

I have been out of town during the anouncement and my eyes are hurting from trying to read everything that has been happening over the last few days.

I have a Series 2 with lifetime, so I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade to a Series 3 since I intend to purchase an HDTV later this year.

Everything I read about the S3 having 2 tuners only talks about recording 2 shows at once. Nothing mentions being able to watch Live TV while recording one show. Is this possible? I know it would be possible using splitters or a cable box on an alternative input, but my wife will not switch inputs to watch something. 

I saw nothing mentioned about this issue in the FAQ and I would think this would be a popular feature. I rarely want to record 2 shows at the same time, but often want to watch 'live TV' while Tivo is recording.


----------



## Amnesia

Yes, it's possible. You could even watch two Live TV programs at the same time...

...but I have to ask: if you have a TiVo, why do you watch Live TV?


----------



## shiffrin

Amnesia said:


> ...but I have to ask: if you have a TiVo, why do you watch Live TV?


We rarely watch live TV, but there are times we want to watch some news before going to bed and Tivo is recording something.


----------



## davezatz

Amnesia said:


> if you have a TiVo, why do you watch Live TV?


News and sports.


----------



## Andrew Ruess

Not sure if this is FAQ worthy, but Weaknees has announced they've been able to upgrade the hard drive to 750gb. I assume they didn't have to replace the WD unified SATA power/data connector.

http://www.wkblog.com/2006/09/early_news_on_the_series_3_upg.html


----------



## TiVoJerry

You do not need to use splitters for this to work. There are two individual inputs; one for cable, one for antenna.

Each input is split internally to allow tuning to two separate channels regardless of source (2 cbl, 2 ant, 1 cbl/1 ant), whether you are recording or just watching LiveTV. And you can still watch something from Now Playing while the tuners are off doing their thing.

If, however, you only install one single-stream CableCARD, the DVR will only be able to tune to one channel.


----------



## sharding

We watch live TV all the time. If one of the main shows we watch is on, and we're home and not doing anything, we're going to watch it. We're not going to arbitrarily avoid watching it, just so we don't have to watch live. Especially for things like sports or reality shows, where the results are going to be all over the news as soon as it's over. Or for the news, as shiffrin suggests.

To me, that feels almost like taking a much longer route to work, just to "take advantage" of a new car's better gas mileage. I love that TiVo doesn't force me to watch things live when it's not convenient. But I'm not going to *avoid* watching things live just because TiVo allows it...


----------



## Todd

Anyone know what speed the CPU is in it?


----------



## smak

Jerry, i'm curious. Follow my reasoning here:

With 2 cable cards, the Tivo knows that I can record two things at once. Dual Tuners
With 1 cable card, the Tivo knows that I can only record one thing at once. Single Tuner

So why not with 0 cable cards, couldn't the Tivo know that I can MRV or TTG?

Forgetting about the HD part of that, where sending HD to a series 2 is a problem, if i am not using a cable card at all, why should the cablelabs people have any say in what I do with my programming?

And since i need to do a guided setup to get cable cards to even work in the first place, why if i say "no cable cards" or whatever the setup is, shouldn't those 2 features be available to me?

-smak-


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

If I hook up the box before the installer comes, will it start downloading guide data? So I won't have to wait forever after the installation to start programming the SPs and what-not?


----------



## TiVoJerry

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If I hook up the box before the installer comes, will it start downloading guide data? So I won't have to wait forever after the installation to start programming the SPs and what-not?


Yes and no.

If you set it up immediately for Cable (no cards), it won't know you have the digital channels. You'll have access to your analog channels and can set up SPs for them. Once you get the cards, you'll need to Repeat Guided Setup to recognize the digital channels.

If you decide to set up for Cable (telling the box you have cards, even though you don't), you could certainly set up the SPs but the box wouldn't know it doesn't get the channels, so it would start trying to record from channels it can't tune yet (you've got data but no video). Plus, once you install the cards later, you'd still have to Repeat Guided Setup to get it to work right.


----------



## sharding

I'm not sure if this has already been answered. I couldn't find it anywhere.

In a cable system with ADS (analog digital simulcast), will the TiVo pick up and use the digital versions of all channels, or will it still use the analog versions for the lower channels?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

TiVoJerry said:


> If you decide to set up for Cable (telling the box you have cards, even though you don't), you could certainly set up the SPs but the box wouldn't know it doesn't get the channels, so it would start trying to record from channels it can't tune yet (you've got data but no video). Plus, once you install the cards later, you'd still have to Repeat Guided Setup to get it to work right.


Well, maybe I'm asking the wrong question. With the old SA TiVos, it would be hours before you had enough Guide Data to get things done. Since we're in the thick of Fall Season, I'd rather not have to wait, and risk missing shows. How long will it take between the time the cable guy slips the CableCards in and I can start adding Season Passes?


----------



## Alcatraz

Things have changed since the days of S1. If you have a network, the call time is much shorter. I think I remember seeing that the new guided setup (I think it was introduced with 7.2?) gets a day or two of information with the second call, making it a very short download. You can start setting up recordings over the next day or so. I'm assuming S3 uses the new guided setup.

Another call goes out shortly thereafter and gets the rest of the guide info (but I'd make that connection manually to speed things up even more if I were you). If what I've read is correct, the S3 should digest that info way faster. 

The race is on for someone to set up and tell us how it goes!! Who is going to win??


----------



## comicsacrifice

curious about some stuff... 

does anyone know when they will be activating the ESATA port? will it be before 07? I am so dissapointed with TIVO for releasing this thing with such a puny drive. 30 hours of HD?? 

I need to replace the drive. thanks tivo. 

any guides on how to do this safely? what size is the drive in the series 3, what model is best to buy? everyone keeps talking about WD and some special port connection. has anyone figured out what exact model to buy? how exactly to install? 

is anyone else as bummed out as me about this? man... what a HUGE dissapointment.


----------



## comicsacrifice

what drive should I buy? what all do I need? 

is this the drive? 

Raptor? The WD360 Alias Raptor With 10,000 Rpm And Serial ATA Interface


----------



## 1283

comicsacrifice said:


> what drive should I buy? what all do I need?
> 
> is this the drive?
> 
> Raptor? The WD360 Alias Raptor With 10,000 Rpm And Serial ATA Interface


This is one drive you should *NOT* use for TiVo. No need for 10K RPM drives.


----------



## megazone

comicsacrifice said:


> any guides on how to do this safely? what size is the drive in the series 3, what model is best to buy? everyone keeps talking about WD and some special port connection. has anyone figured out what exact model to buy? how exactly to install?


The only place I've seen doing upgrades is WeaKnees.com. No one else has said anything about upgrades. All the existing tools were doe IDE drives, so no one knows yet what needs to be done for SATA and how the tools work.

The S3 has a 250GB WD drive. Look at the photos for the specifics, there are photos of the label on the drive. The TiVo uses a proprietary WD SATA connector which may not fit other brands.


----------



## megazone

TiVoToo said:


> After S3 completes its channel scan, will I be able to deselect the DT subchannels from the channel lineup?


Yes. Each channel is listed in the channels list, so 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, etc, are all (de)selectable.



> Will deselecting a subchannel prevent that subchannel from being recorded when a program on the main channel is selected for recording?


I believe the unit records *channels*, not carriers. So if you record 2-1 it is NOT recording 2-2 or 2-3.


----------



## megazone

tunnelengineer said:


> ok, here's a potentially noob question for you. Does the HDMI cable transmit both the digital video and digital audio form the S3 to the TV


Yes.


----------



## megazone

TiVoToo said:


> I believe HDMI audio is two channel only, i.e. - stereo. For multi-channel output, e.g. - Dolby Digital or PCM, you would need to use the optical output into a surround sound receiver.


Not true. HDMI carries Dolby Digital, DTS, and other advanced formats. (HDMI 1.3 adds even more.) I'm using it with Dolby Digital.

Some TVs didn't handle Dolby Digital over HDMI, but that should be rare these days.


----------



## megazone

ecopoesis said:


> Is there a way to setup the output to be 1080i for HD and 480i for SD? Or are the only hybrid options the ones with 480p for SD?


Sorry, no. Just the modes listed in the FAQ and Review. You could force the TiVo to scale everything to 1080i, including SD. Or Native would leave SD in 480i, but then some HD would be 720p. The only way around this would be to dive into the settings screen and change the settings based on what you're about to watch.



> Also, hows the speed of the TiVo's guides and channel surfing. Though the various Moto and SA boxes are lacking in the DVR dept, their channel changing and guides are usually an order of magnitude faster then on the Series2.


VERY speedy. No noticable lag in menus, etc, at all. Channel surfing has about a 2 second lag before you see the new channel, but that's about as good as it gets since it has to tune the channel, record it, read it, decode it, then output. DVRs always have some lag. But the new channel banner comes up instantly, it is just the video that takes a moment.


----------



## megazone

bobharp said:


> How is the quality of the up-converting of SD content to 480p?


The scaler in the S3 seems to be pretty good. I'm not a video expert, but to my eyes it was good. I don't normally use it though, my TV has a scaler and I use Native normally.


----------



## megazone

ericholst said:


> I am new to the Tivo universe, so excuse my ignorance. Since the S3 has dual tuners, does it have any support for PIP or Picture in Picture?


No. It only has one decoder and one set of outputs.


----------



## megazone

PDT816 said:


> Heres the excerpt from TiVoLovers outstanding review (thanks!)
> 
> Am I taking this too literally or does installing two cablecards mean that you can still record a digital and OTA program at the same time?


You're welcome. And with two CableCARDs you still have dual-tuner OTA.


----------



## megazone

Spiff72 said:


> Does anyone know if the digital audio port will output a digital audio signal on an analog cable channel?


Yes. The *only* output cable I'm using is HDMI to my TV. Then there is an optical cable from my TV to my surround receiver.


----------



## miller890

Does the Series 3 have a screen saver for paused video playback?


----------



## classicsat

smak said:


> Jerry, i'm curious. Follow my reasoning here:
> 
> With 2 cable cards, the Tivo knows that I can record two things at once. Dual Tuners
> With 1 cable card, the Tivo knows that I can only record one thing at once. Single Tuner
> 
> So why not with 0 cable cards, couldn't the Tivo know that I can MRV or TTG?
> 
> 
> 
> Read the TiVoPony-Cablelabs-transfer thread. Quite simply, they could not have MRF enabled out the door at this stage cuz CableLabs said no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgetting about the HD part of that, where sending HD to a series 2 is a problem, if i am not using a cable card at all, why should the cablelabs people have any say in what I do with my programming?
> 
> 
> 
> As I speculated in the other thread, likely because the software was unable to discern between sources, so they played safe disabling MRV altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And since i need to do a guided setup to get cable cards to even work in the first place, why if i say "no cable cards" or whatever the setup is, shouldn't those 2 features be available to me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not if transfers are disabled altogether, as said, becasue conditional MRV likely didn't work for Cablelabs at the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## overzeetop

I think this may have been covered in one post, but I'd like confirmation:

Does the unit output both HD and SD (over s-vid/composite) simulataneously? I run my HR10 via HDMI to my main TV, but modulate the composite & analog audio into UHF for whole-house distribution. Unfortunately, when you go HD on the HR10, the SD goes blank. 

A reply to those who have problems getting cablecards:

1) can you ask for two cable cards for a new TV instead of a TiVo?

2) If you're dissatisfied with the response, in addition to everyone else, drop a letter to your US congressman concerning your problems. You might also copy Rick Boucher, the representative from my district in Virginia. He happens to be one of the few who (a) understands technology and (b) favors the consumer over corporations in IP battles. His address is:

The Honorable Rick Boucher
2187 Rayburn HOB House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

He is a member of the Energy and Commerce commitee and is on on the subcommittee for Telecommunications and the Internet (which oversees the FCC). Even if he doesn't respond to your complaint directly (your rep should), his office will likely keep a file of the problem to be used should an investigation into problems with interoperability come up in hearings (and I suspect they just might)


----------



## larrs

megazone said:


> SD is improved - I just posted my review at TiVoLovers.com and I'm scrambling to get a bbcode formatted version to post here. But I have a day job and all, so give me a minute. ;-)
> 
> As for the other question - ALL outputs are active, nothing to toggle. So you can use the HDMI, component, S-Video, and composite outputs all at the same time if you want.


If all outputs are active, do you also have independent control over different outputs for format? 
For example, I had Voom satellite once upon a time and you could set up the 2 video and composite video separate form the DVI and component, so it could be connected to two different types of displays. I had the DVI connected to my HD set and formatted to 16:9 and the s-video to a standard bedroom TV with 4:3 letterboxing of widescreen content.

I also have a complaint witht he Scientific Atlanta box in that it assumes the s-vid and composite outputs are connected to a 4:3 tv, can you output 16:9 format via the Tivo's s-vid connectors?


----------



## cgould

Along w/ the "screensaver" (old hack) feature- I don't have an S2 so don't know if either is standard now- 
Can the S3 display CallerID info, eg is it possible to connect the phone line (along w/ ethernet), to get a CallerID display? Does this work on S2s as a feature, or is a hack we'd have to add? And does the S3 modem have callerID?


----------



## Fofer

overzeetop said:


> Does the unit output both HD and SD (over s-vid/composite) simulataneously? I run my HR10 via HDMI to my main TV, but modulate the composite & analog audio into UHF for whole-house distribution. Unfortunately, when you go HD on the HR10, the SD goes blank.


I asked this question and was answered by TiVoJerry that yes, all outputs get signal simultaneously. :up:


----------



## megazone

miller890 said:


> Does the Series 3 have a screen saver for paused video playback?


Not that I've noticed.


----------



## megazone

larrs said:


> If all outputs are active, do you also have independent control over different outputs for format?


No, there is one universal setting for aspect, etc.


----------



## megazone

cgould said:


> Can the S3 display CallerID info, eg is it possible to connect the phone line (along w/ ethernet), to get a CallerID display? Does this work on S2s as a feature, or is a hack we'd have to add? And does the S3 modem have callerID?


No. Maybe as a hack. And probably, but unknown.


----------



## silentbob

davezatz said:


> The S3 manual says there's a limited warranty with 90 days of free labor and one year parts exchange. Within 90 days you may be responsible for shipping, beyond 90 days you may be responsible for shipping and labor. (I've added the word 'may' because I expect TiVo to take care of their high-end customers.)


Given that the original warranty is only one year and that the lifespans of people's units (for Series 1 and 2) appear to vary, what do y'all think about ordering from CC/BB and getting the 4/5-year extended warranty rather than ordering from TiVo and transferring my Series 2 lifetime sub for a unit that would be "uncovered" after one year?

(I've worked out the math in the "How to figure out costs" thread, but have no clue about how to factor in the warranty issue from a necessity standpoint)


----------



## hiker

silentbob said:


> Given that the original warranty is only one year and that the lifespans of people's units (for Series 1 and 2) appear to vary, what do y'all think about ordering from CC/BB and getting the 4/5-year extended warranty rather than ordering from TiVo and transferring my Series 2 lifetime sub for a unit that would be "uncovered" after one year?
> 
> (I've worked out the math in the "How to figure out costs" thread, but have no clue about how to factor in the warranty issue from a necessity standpoint)


If you want an extended warranty, you can buy a Repair Master by Warrantech service plan regardless of where you purchased the S3. For 5 year plan, look for RMV51000 if you pay $1000 or less. RMV5750 if you pay $750 or less. I'm buying from tivo.com and plan on getting the RMV51000.


----------



## wmcbrine

TiVoJerry said:


> If, however, you only install one single-stream CableCARD, the DVR will only be able to tune to one channel.


Is there any hope that this will be fixed in a future software upgrade?


----------



## megazone

FAQ updated


----------



## megazone

wmcbrine said:


> Is there any hope that this will be fixed in a future software upgrade?


I asked if there will be an update to give the S3 asymmetric capabilities list the S2DT, and this is the reply:


> This is a feature that is being investigated. It is anticipated that most Series3 HD customers will want to benefits of dual tuning.


----------



## Larry in TN

wmcbrine said:


> Is there any hope that this will be fixed in a future software upgrade?


There's no reason to "fix" it. In a month or two the multi-stream cableCARD will be available and we can trade in our two single-stream cards for one multi-stream card.


----------



## Gregor

hiker said:


> If you want an extended warranty, you can buy a Repair Master by Warrantech service plan regardless of where you purchased the S3. For 5 year plan, look for RMV51000 if you pay $1000 or less. RMV5750 if you pay $750 or less. I'm buying from tivo.com and plan on getting the RMV51000.


Would an extended warranty cover a box modified with a bigger hard drive?


----------



## hiker

Gregor said:


> Would an extended warranty cover a box modified with a bigger hard drive?


If the manufacturer's original warranty would cover then the extended warranty should also.


----------



## Alcatraz

hiker said:


> If the manufacturer's original warranty would cover then the extended warranty should also.


That's a nice way of saying "No"  since the original warranty won't cover anyone opening up the box. Then again, they may not be able to ever figure it out.


----------



## BarryPCC

Hi! I've had a Series 2 since October 2002 and plan on getting S3 by the New Year's Eve deadline so I can transfer my lifetime service. First, many thanks to Megazone and everyone else here for making this forum so informative on the S3. I had a lot of questions and all but one has been answered here. My one remaining question is this:

I am a Comcast subscriber in Richmond, VA so I already know that getting CableCards from them is going to be, shall we say, an advernture. I currently buy the Major League Baseball Extra Innings package via InDemand Pay Per View. I know that with CableCards I will lose OnDemand since I won't have a set-top box, but will this Extra Innings package be affected as well, or will it still be received thu the CableCard without a problem?

Thanks again!


----------



## Dizzy49

megazone said:


> If they're not broadcast in HD, then they don't take up as much room as HD content. 'HD' channels may carry digital SD programs. So it is hard to tell - and, of course, with analog you pick the encoding quality so the space can vary - a LOT. See the tables in my review. Quality would probably be higher on the digital channel too, even SD.


Analog recording will be small.
HD recording will take up alot of space.
SD recording (a 4:3 show on a HD channel/digital channel) will be bigger than Analog, but smaller than HD. The quality difference between Analog and Digital SD is *HUGE*

I record HD and Digital SD on my PC from OTA often. My wife refuses to watch any analog station now.

However, the S3 cost is just too much for what you get. I'll be waiting...


----------



## Dizzy49

ericholst said:


> I am new to the Tivo universe, so excuse my ignorance. Since the S3 has dual tuners, does it have any support for PIP or Picture in Picture?
> 
> I have been waiting for the S3 ever since I got an HD TV, but I am seriously bummed, as I really wanted the TivoToGo. I spend a lot of time in airplanes, I find that watching TV shows on my laptop that I recorded on my MS Media Center PC is a great way to kill time when sitting for extended periods of time at elevations > 30k'! Of course I can't record encrypted or HD content from cable w/ my Media Center PC.


Ah, no worries, in the next year or so they will ban all devices of any kind on airplanes, so it won't be an issue any more.

No, seriously, they are considering doing it. I believe they already did something similar in the UK. No carry-ons, drinks, no nothing. Gotta make flying with kids a real joy.


----------



## Dizzy49

I'm always leery about buying warranties from companies. I bought a warranty on my big screen tv, and so far every problem I've had isn't covered. I was promised a yearly cleaning, and a yearly gun alignment. Yeah right. Ended up having to pay an attorney to contact Best Buy to get my $500 back for the warranty.

I'm supposed to sell warranties for computers at CompUSA. On desktops I think they are almost worthless. On laptops, they are worth it. Sounds like the hard drive fails on the Tivos for the most part. Under the HP warranty for their desktops, that's not covered. That's normal wear and tear as far as they are concerned, not a manufacturer defect. What's Tivo's take on that? Do CC/BB just extend the manfacturer's warranty, or replace it with their own?

Yeah, nothing like throwing down $1000 just to have it crap out a couple months later. Been there, done that.


----------



## comicsacrifice

i'm getting mine today from frys. they have it on hold. the ONLY complaint i have at the moment is the limited 250 gig storage. i really hope someone throws together comprehensive guide for hard drive upgrade (with reccomended drives and parts) OR even better, i hope tivo activates that currently worthless esata port. (and makes it openly compatable with any external esata drives available)


----------



## albrandwood

comicsacrifice said:


> i'm getting mine today from frys. they have it on hold. the ONLY complaint i have at the moment is the limited 250 gig storage. i really hope someone throws together comprehensive guide for hard drive upgrade (with reccomended drives and parts) OR even better, i hope tivo activates that currently worthless esata port. (and makes it openly compatable with any external esata drives available)


Weaknees is now selling (or at least preordering) prebuilt 500gb and 750gb replacements ... They aren't cheap as the 750gb is $599 (about $200 more than a bare drive from BestBuy :-( ) ...

However, since the S3 is SATA, home upgrades are gonna be a little harder since not only will you need an SATA controller in your computer, it will need to be one that the upgrade CD can work with ... Linux (at least the version of 2.6.15.4 kernel I have) support for SATA controllers is somewhat less guaranteed than PATA ... (Xandros 3.01 with kernel 2.6.15.4 doesn't support the SATA controller in my HP desktop :-( )

@


----------



## albrandwood

Dizzy49 said:


> I'm always leery about buying warranties from companies.


In general, so am I ... I had one from BB on my first plasma ... after 2 yrs it died ... took BB 8 weeks to agree that they couldn't repair it (due to inability to obtain replacement parts from the manufacturer) ...

was it worth it? The hassle: no ... the "free" upgrade from an EDTV to HDTV Plasma: yes ... I got a shinny new HDTV plasma for $300 (the cost of the warranty) :-D



Dizzy49 said:


> I'm supposed to sell warranties for computers at CompUSA. On desktops I think they are almost worthless. On laptops, they are worth it. Sounds like the hard drive fails on the Tivos for the most part. Under the HP warranty for their desktops, that's not covered. That's normal wear and tear as far as they are concerned, not a manufacturer defect. What's Tivo's take on that? Do CC/BB just extend the manfacturer's warranty, or replace it with their own?


With BB in the past, they replaced it with their own ... however, the HD is the one aspect I _dont_ care if it dies ... I can replace that, and it has no affect on the lifetime subscription ... my concern is that the motherboard dies after 13 months, taking with it the lifetime subscription. In my setup, it will take 29 months to breakeven on the lifetime transfer cost... I'd like to extend the warranty to 4 yrs, since in 4 yrs, if it dies, the S4 will be released, and I can (probably) transfer the subscription then ...

While it is far more likely the mechanical components will fail before electrical, I had to replace a raid controller in an exchange server this week after only 18 months ... and We've a laptop that had it's motherboard replaced twice so far ... Remember, these are (usually) built to a higher quality build than CE equipment, which is designed to be "disposable" rather than "repairable".

@


----------



## bkdtv

> I'm supposed to sell warranties for computers at CompUSA. On desktops I think they are almost worthless. On laptops, they are worth it. Sounds like the hard drive fails on the Tivos for the most part. Under the HP warranty for their desktops, that's not covered. That's normal wear and tear as far as they are concerned, not a manufacturer defect. What's Tivo's take on that? Do CC/BB just extend the manfacturer's warranty, or replace it with their own?


I would also be interested to know who offers an extended warranty for the Series3 that covers a dead hard drive. Has anyone had a chance to read the terms of the extended warranties offered by BB and Circuit City?

The only moving part in the Series3 is the hard drive, so that should be the first part to go. So long as you have a good surge protector, the chance of the mainboard dying in the first five years is probably quite low.


----------



## 1283

albrandwood said:


> However, since the S3 is SATA, home upgrades are gonna be a little harder since not only will you need an SATA controller in your computer, it will need to be one that the upgrade CD can work with ... Linux (at least the version of 2.6.15.4 kernel I have) support for SATA controllers is somewhat less guaranteed than PATA ... (Xandros 3.01 with kernel 2.6.15.4 doesn't support the SATA controller in my HP desktop :-( )
> 
> @


This is a pure guess, since I haven't even ordered the S3s yet. The normal upgrade process and tools may work by attaching a PATA<->SATA converter, so to the PC, it's just a PATA drive.


----------



## albrandwood

c3 said:


> This is a pure guess, since I haven't even ordered the S3s yet. The normal upgrade process and tools may work by attaching a PATA<->SATA converter, so to the PC, it's just a PATA drive.


Haven't ordered mine yet ... (I'm hoping to pick one up from BestBuy with 0% salestax at the end of the month when I go to a wedding ... well, order it for in-store pickup as I drive by)

I'm hoping that the SATA-PATA and an SATA-WD adapter (if needed) will resolve the issues, but 
(a) have to buy an S3 to confirm
(b) have to buy a 750gb drive 
(c) have to buy the required adapters etc
(d) I'm sure by the time I do it, someone will have posted full instructions and requirements :-D

@


----------



## Amnesia

Dizzy49 said:


> I'm supposed to sell warranties for computers at CompUSA. On desktops I think they are almost worthless. On laptops, they are worth it.


They are never worth it.

The people selling the warranties do it to make money. That means that on average, people will spend more money paying for the warranties than the company will spend fixing problems. The companies have experience to determine the correct price to charge to ensure that they make a profit.

Yes, some individuals might end up receiving more than they pay, but most people will not. It's kind of like a lottery except that there's no way to "win". The only way that a warranty is worth it for a particular individual is if they have massive problems with their equipment and that's hardly "winning"...


----------



## bdraw

I specifically ask for an Extended Warranty from Best Buy last night when I picked up my Series3 and they said they didn't offer it.

I have never bought one from BB before, but have great success with Extended warranties from Circuit City and Sound Advice(a tweeter store)


----------



## hiker

I've had good experience with the Repair Master exteneded warranty and have it now for most of my gear. Had a plasma panel go bad after 14 months (2 months after manuf. warranty expired) and they offered to replace it with a new current model or refund their cost of same. I took the refund, got a check promptly and bought a bigger plasma.


----------



## snathanb

Amnesia said:


> They are never worth it.
> 
> The people selling the warranties do it to make money. That means that on average, people will spend more money paying for the warranties than the company will spend fixing problems. The companies have experience to determine the correct price to charge to ensure that they make a profit.
> 
> Yes, some individuals might end up receiving more than they pay, but most people will not. It's kind of like a lottery except that there's no way to "win". The only way that a warranty is worth it for a particular individual is if they have massive problems with their equipment and that's hardly "winning"...


Well, of course. Same goes for health, homeowners, fire, car, flood, and any other kind of insurance out there. If it didn't make someone a profit, it wouldn't exist.

It's an insurance policy. Plain and simple.


----------



## snathanb

bdraw said:


> I specifically ask for an Extended Warranty from Best Buy last night when I picked up my Series3 and they said they didn't offer it.
> 
> I have never bought one from BB before, but have great success with Extended warranties from Circuit City and Sound Advice(a tweeter store)


The S3 is finally in a couple of the BBs here, and the web site encouraged me to put the $29 DVR/TIVO extended warranty in my cart.

I have had extremely bad experiences with BBs service policies and I stopped buying them years ago. They were doing all their own "repairs" and holding on to your equipment for weeks, then returning it none the better.


----------



## keenanSR

bdraw said:


> I specifically ask for an Extended Warranty from Best Buy last night when I picked up my Series3 and they said they didn't offer it.
> 
> I have never bought one from BB before, but have great success with Extended warranties from Circuit City and Sound Advice(a tweeter store)


Yes, they do, I paid $30 for a 4 year plan, at that price it was a steal. The register code is 3762404 for TiVo/Replay.


----------



## MichaelK

Amnesia said:


> They are never worth it.
> 
> The people selling the warranties do it to make money. That means that on average, people will spend more money paying for the warranties than the company will spend fixing problems. The companies have experience to determine the correct price to charge to ensure that they make a profit.
> 
> Yes, some individuals might end up receiving more than they pay, but most people will not. It's kind of like a lottery except that there's no way to "win". The only way that a warranty is worth it for a particular individual is if they have massive problems with their equipment and that's hardly "winning"...


I almost never buy extended warrenties. Twice in my life I have- both times it happened to work out. Once for a camcorder (I brok ethe previous one so figured I better get it) and more recently for my LCD RPTV- when I bought it it was like one complete paycheck and it was new technology- so i picked up the extented waretny at CC. THe other day the bulb died- it costs $399 to buy. Warrenty paid for. If the bulb just happens to die again before the end date and I call to get another bulb mailed, then i'll make a pile on it....


----------



## silentbob

bkdtv said:


> I would also be interested to know who offers an extended warranty for the Series3 that covers a dead hard drive. Has anyone had a chance to read the terms of the extended warranties offered by BB and Circuit City?


On a related note, does anyone know if the EW at BB has covered dead hard drives for the Series 1/2 models?


----------



## Canoehead

Don't most HDDs have a 3 year manufacturers warranty? Anyway, the HDD that costs $200 today (500gigs) will cost $100 in 2 years, so it is not the worst thing to have to replace.


----------



## hiker

Canoehead said:


> Don't most HDDs have a 3 year manufacturers warranty? Anyway, the HDD that costs $200 today (500gigs) will cost $100 in 2 years, so it is not the worst thing to have to replace.


Hard drives purchased in a retail box usually have 3 year warranties by the manufacturer. The OEM drives put in my the manufacturers of DVRs usually have only 90 day to 1 year warranties. Also the warranty term is usually printed on the hard drive label.


----------



## 1283

Typical consumer drives:
WD and Maxtor retail: 1 year.
WD and Maxtor bare: 3 years.
Seagate: 5 years.

Typical drives in DVR: none from the drive manufacturer.


----------



## lemketron

megazone said:


> (re: channel changing speed, S3 is) VERY speedy. No noticable lag in menus, etc, at all. Channel surfing has about a 2 second lag before you see the new channel, but that's about as good as it gets since it has to tune the channel, record it, read it, decode it, then output. DVRs always have some lag. But the new channel banner comes up instantly, it is just the video that takes a moment.


I guess most people are moving from S2 boxes and/or are used to cable or satellite STBs.

Our past experience was with a (seemingly slow at other things) analog-only S1, and I have to say that I hate the lag. I don't have the cable cards yet, but on the built-in (QAM) tuner, I can't stand the screen blanking out every time I change channels. Too bad it can't pre-tune the second tuner with a guess at the next channel (if I'm going up or down through the list). I hope that adding the cable cards somehow improves this but I'm not optimistic.

Just thought this was worth pointing out for anyone else moving from a pure (and fast) analog TiVo experience. (Yeah yeah, "welcome to the 21st century", I guess. I was just hoping it would be clear in EVERY regard, especially performance, that this was an improvement from my six-year old S1.)


----------



## cgould

c3 said:


> Typical consumer drives:
> WD and Maxtor retail: 1 year.
> WD and Maxtor bare: 3 years.
> Seagate: 5 years.
> 
> Typical drives in DVR: none from the drive manufacturer.


WD has a good program to extend warranties online, eg 1yr -> 3yr for $15 (for retail/bare)...just input the serial# and check the warranty status.
Maybe someone w/ an S3 (opened) could input their drive S/N at http://support.wdc.com, and check the warranty status, incl if they list option to extend it?

I 've done that for all my replacement/expansion SA1 tivo drives... WD120g worked nicely so far...


----------



## 1283

If you want 3 years with WD, it's probably cheaper to get the bare drive which already has 3-year warranty. Based on my experience (not S3), WD drive in TiVo does not have WD warranty, so you cannot extend it.


----------



## tgibbs

snathanb said:


> Well, of course. Same goes for health, homeowners, fire, car, flood, and any other kind of insurance out there. If it didn't make someone a profit, it wouldn't exist.
> 
> It's an insurance policy. Plain and simple.


Yes, generally you are better off self-insuring (which means if it breaks, just pay to have it fixed) your stuff unless the cost is likely to be ruinous. On the average, you will save, even if you occasionally get hit with an expensive repair.

Exceptions are:

1) If you think that your own unit will get heavier use than most, to the extent that it is substantially more likely to break than average.

2) If the manufacturer has a monopoly on repairs and really screws you, in which case a service contract may be your best bet.


----------



## TexasGrillChef

DCIFRTHS said:


> As an FYI to those who may be purchasing replacement drives for the S3, please read the following before spending your money.
> 
> After perusing MZ's internal pics of the S3, I notice that the connector on the SATA hard drive is the Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. It makes the connections much less prone to coming lose due to vibration etc. ...
> 
> Unfortunately, it is proprietary, and one complete assembly. The power and data cables are attached to one molded connector. If you trace the SATA connector back to the motherboard, it _appears_ to be a standard connector, so there should be no problem replacing the SATA cable. On the other hand, the power connector appears to be soldered into the power supply board.
> 
> Unless you are comfortable soldering, it would seem that an adapter (connector) to power the HD, or a WD drive will be necessary to replace the stock S3 HD.
> 
> Here is a link to the WD cable. It appears as though the cable in the S3 is a modified version of the one you can purchase directly from WD as the TiVo version has the power cable integrated into the connector.
> 
> Of course, there is a good chance that a retail WD HD would work without any modification, as long as it can accept power through the SATA power connector on the WD proprietary connection.
> 
> Any brave souls out there  I know I'm not going to mess with mine when I get it. I'll just go the external route, or possible upgrade with a larger HD.


I can't remember where I saw them Cyberguys.com or cableguys.com (I think) had SATA conversion cables for that convert back & forth between the WD proprietary(sp?) Sata/power connector. Think it was like $15 or something.

I do know I saw the conversion / adapter cables though somewhere.

TexasGrillChef.... Grilling the World away...

Tivo S3 umod (so far) with Slingbox!


----------



## lonestarjacket

Fofer said:


> Some might say it was generous of them to offer the transfer fee at all. Otherwise, the lifetime option has been discontinued. The fact that they're allowing their "loyal customers" the opportunity to get another lifetime fee for $200 for the new hardware seems like a nice gesture to me.


Have you done the math?

If you want to keep the old box and the new Series 3 as well then there is no advantage at all to tranferring service. You only get 12 months on the old box and that's like prepaying a fully monthly fee for a year anyway.

Now, the transfer may be a good deal if you have an old Series 1 that you are likely to trash anyway. Otherwise, not so much.


----------



## sharding

sharding said:


> I'm not sure if this has already been answered. I couldn't find it anywhere.
> 
> In a cable system with ADS (analog digital simulcast), will the TiVo pick up and use the digital versions of all channels, or will it still use the analog versions for the lower channels?


I don't think I saw an answer to this, and I'm still wondering. I can't quite figure out what it's doing. I can see the simulcast channels in the lineup (in the 7XX range), but it won't let me tune to them. I can't tell if I'm actually getting the digital versions of the channels on the real channel numbers (e.g. 4) or not. It would be nice if it were taking the digital signal and writing it straight to disk, just as it supposedly does with the upper (digital-only) channels.


----------



## Fofer

lonestarjacket said:


> Have you done the math?


Actually, no. Because I've had lifetime on my DTV account for a while now. And I have a pre-paid lifetime gift certificate I plan to use, one day, on a Series 3. (But that's just me.)

Now that you put it that way, though, I see why the "transfer fee" is not such a great deal after all. They should allow your old box to continue to work indefinitely. Or make the transfer free.


----------



## EricScott

megazone said:


> Sorry, no. Just the modes listed in the FAQ and Review. You could force the TiVo to scale everything to 1080i, including SD. Or Native would leave SD in 480i, but then some HD would be 720p. The only way around this would be to dive into the settings screen and change the settings based on what you're about to watch.


My display (Samsung DLP) won't accept 480i over HDMI. Can I still use Native or will SD channels get messed up? On my 8300 HD I pass it 480p, 720p and 1080i with pretty good results. Would love to be able to do the same thing w/ an S3.


----------



## comicsacrifice

got mine. have to wait for cablecards. i went to the time warner office today to pick some up and the said they could not allow that. they HAD to send a technician to professionally install the cable cards. tuesday was the soonest they could schedule. 

am i wrong or don't you just plug the cards in? is there anything more to it than that? they are going to make me pay an installation fee and have a technician come all the way here to simply plug two cards into a slot? are you kidding me?

i have 30 days to see if its worth the price. got it at frys. can't wait for a clear comprehensive upgrade guide. 

the drives that they sell at weaknees need to be plugged into a computer? how come? dont you just install them into the tivo? you mean they dont preload the drives with the hdtivo software?


----------



## sharding

comicsacrifice said:


> am i wrong or don't you just plug the cards in? is there anything more to it than that? they are going to make me pay an installation fee and have a technician come all the way here to simply plug two cards into a slot? are you kidding me?


I just plugged them in, and then called Comcast to activate them. They apparently sent some signals, and then it was done. Extremely simple. However, it sounds like most places are requiring a tech visit, so you're not alone.


----------



## keenanSR

A lot of trouble with CableCARDS can be avoided if the office, or the tech who is installing them, makes sure that the cards are "authorized" for the particular headend for the area in which they are to be installed.

It would seem that sharding had cards that were ready to go as all that really needs to happen is plug them in and have the office "hit" the card, it make take a couple of times, but they should come right online.

This is given that there are not issues with the equipment they are being installed in, and the S3 doesn't appear to suffer from any of those issues.


----------



## alee

Does the Series 3 TiVo have a screen saver (e.g. screen goes dark or goes to a moving logo after X min of being paused)?


----------



## keenanSR

I haven't seen this mentioned yet and it's giving me a bad case of heartburn.

How do I prevent the S3 remote from operating the HR10-250 at the same time? I read page 53 in the manual about the DVR switch, I don't fully understand it, I did try it and the remote address is now 1. Yet it still operates the HR10-250. I'm hoping there a simple fix other than covering the IR eye when using each unit.

Plus, if one the TiVo's ends up with a different remote address, how do get the Harmony 880 to distinguish between the two?

I was having all sorts of trouble today with the HR10-250 until I finally figured out what was going, now I need to figure out how to fix.

If there is thread addressing this issue a link would be appreciated.

TIA


----------



## eddyj

If either TiVo is set to address 0, it will respond to all remote codes. If the remote is set to 0, it will control all TiVos, regardless of their remote codes. So you need BOTH set to non-zero codes. For the Harmony, there are a couple of threads that talk about setting it up with multiple TiVos with different remote codes. I do this, it is not a problem.

edit: Could not find the old post, but basically, you program the harmony to have two different TiVos, and then tell the remote that it is not controlling the TiVo correctly. It will prompt you to "learn" 2 or 3 buttons from the TiVo remote. Do this (using the appropriately coded TiVo remote, of course) for each, and the Harmony will realize you are using the specific code for each TiVo, and reset all the codes for that device to be the specific codes (not the 0 codes). Then everything works fine.


----------



## keenanSR

Great! Thanks, I'll be giving it a try later today.


----------



## tgibbs

The routine to identify the remote language/code can be found on your Harmony home page under "More options" for each TiVo device. It is called "Confirm infrared commands."


----------



## getgray

Great FAQ, thanks.

I use universal remotes (e.g. Pronto). Anyone know the Tivo protocol and device ID so I can create some universal remove files? Of better yet, anyone have the files for a S3 yet? (not learned)

Thanks,
Scott


----------



## 1283

megazone said:


> Kind of - the S2 remote lacks buttons that are kind of important, like Aspect.


Comparing the S2 and S3 remotes, the only difference I could see is that the "PIP/Window" button is replaced by the "Aspect" button. Has anyone tried the S2 remote with the S3? Perhaps those two are actually the same, just different labeling on the remote.


----------



## hiker

getgray said:


> Great FAQ, thanks.
> 
> I use universal remotes (e.g. Pronto). Anyone know the Tivo protocol and device ID so I can create some universal remove files? Of better yet, anyone have the files for a S3 yet? (not learned)
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott


I'm not sure if this will help you but I asked question about the IR codes here and they are the same as most other TiVos.


----------



## keenanSR

tgibbs said:


> The routine to identify the remote language/code can be found on your Harmony home page under "More options" for each TiVo device. It is called "Confirm infrared commands."


I must be doing something wrong.

I have the DirecTV HR10-250 with Remote Add-2
The S3 is with Remote Add-1

The S3 seems to work properly in that it turns "on and off" when it's supposed to.

The HR10-250 also turns on when the S3 does and responds the the commands directed at the S3.

Also, when using the HR10-250, and then switch to using the S3, the HR10-250 does not shutdown and continues to respond the commands directed at the S3.

When confirming the commands at the Harmony site I'm a bit confused as to what button is the Power Toggle, and I suspect that it where my problem.

What button do you press to turn the HR10-150 "off" or put it into Standby?

I think I'm close to what I need, but the power toggle thing has me a bit confused.


----------



## nexus99

A couple of pages abck people were asking about seeting up befoer they ahve cable cards... I got my S3 a couple of days ago and couldn't wait for my CableCard install. I plugged it all up and and through the guided install. I told it "no cards" and it quickly set up for my 99 basic (non-digital) channels. It pulled a day or so's worth of channel info on the first "call" - I have this on my DSL connection - so I was off to the races immediately. Over night it looks like it pulled a full set of program data.

I am upgrading from a S1 so I am still ooohing and ahhhing over the whole Tivo Desktop and built in internet radio. This is the first time I have quickly bought a new-to-market product... I hope I don't kick myself later. 

I will report back on Thursday when my Cable Cards are in (Comcast) and I can fire up the HD. 

Is there any concensus yet on which display is better from the Tivo- 720P or 1080i?


----------



## keenanSR

Different question.

On the front panel on the unit there are 4 little LED windows, 2 on each side of the display window. What are those for? Currently mine has the upper left lit up red.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

keenanSR said:


> Different question.
> 
> On the front panel on the unit there are 4 little LED windows, 2 on each side of the display window. What are those for? Currently mine has the upper left lit up red.


Red is usually recording. From the pics I have seen there are two red LEDs on the left that seem to indicate that a show is recording.


----------



## sharding

Right, the two red lights on the left indicate a program recording (one for each tuner). If it's a scheduled recording, it shows the program name. If it's a suggestion, it doesn't (just the red light comes on). The orange light on the bottom right indicates that it's receiving a signal from the remote. I'm not sure what the fourth light is for. I've only seen it on when I first powered the machine up.


----------



## keenanSR

Thanks for the info on the lights.

Anyone got any clues about my post about controlling an HD-TiVo and the S3 with the Harmony 880?


----------



## DCIFRTHS

sharding said:


> Right, the two red lights on the left indicate a program recording (one for each tuner). If it's a scheduled recording, it shows the program name. If it's a suggestion, it doesn't (just the red light comes on). The orange light on the bottom right indicates that it's receiving a signal from the remote. I'm not sure what the fourth light is for. I've only seen it on when I first powered the machine up.


What color is it? The fourth LED that is...

Also, are these actually LEDs, or are they part of the OLED display?


----------



## phox_mulder

keenanSR said:


> Thanks for the info on the lights.
> 
> Anyone got any clues about my post about controlling an HD-TiVo and the S3 with the Harmony 880?


Using the original remotes, set one to 1 and the other to 2, or 2-3, 3-4, just don't go higher than 5, the 880 has a problem with addresses higher than 5.
This procedure is in the manual of each TiVo.

Then I forget exactly how to set the 880 to those remote codes.
I know I found it via search on the 880 web page,
search for "multiple TiVo's" or "TiVo Addresses" or something like that,
and you have to point each original at the back of the 880 while connected, and it has you push 3 buttons on the original, then move onto the other.
I have it running 3 TiVo's in the same room right now, and it works perfect.

phox


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

phox_mulder said:


> Using the original remotes, set one to 1 and the other to 2, or 2-3, 3-4, just don't go higher than 5, the 880 has a problem with addresses higher than 5.
> This procedure is in the manual of each TiVo.
> 
> Then I forget exactly how to set the 880 to those remote codes.
> I know I found it via search on the 880 web page,
> search for "multiple TiVo's" or "TiVo Addresses" or something like that,
> and you have to point each original at the back of the 880 while connected, and it has you push 3 buttons on the original, then move onto the other.
> I have it running 3 TiVo's in the same room right now, and it works perfect.
> 
> phox


I'm having a problem with this. I set my DirecTiVo to 1 and my S3 to 2 (or the other way around). When I went to the Harmony site (mine is a 680), it read the DirecTiVo remote just fine, but received no signal from the S3 remote, which remains resolutely 0 (causing some interesting unintended consequences). Is anybody else having this kind of problem?


----------



## phox_mulder

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm having a problem with this. I set my DirecTiVo to 1 and my S3 to 2 (or the other way around). When I went to the Harmony site (mine is a 680), it read the DirecTiVo remote just fine, but received no signal from the S3 remote, which remains resolutely 0 (causing some interesting unintended consequences). Is anybody else having this kind of problem?


Not having an S3 in my posession, all I can suggest is try another address.

Memory being the first to go, I seem to remember having a problem initially with 1, 2 and 3,
so I tried 2, 3 and 4 and that worked.
I know I had a problem with my original addresses, 2, 6 and 8,
then found the hint to try addresses lower than 5.

phox


----------



## keenanSR

phox_mulder said:


> Not having an S3 in my posession, all I can suggest is try another address.
> 
> Memory being the first to go, I seem to remember having a problem initially with 1, 2 and 3,
> so I tried 2, 3 and 4 and that worked.
> I know I had a problem with my original addresses, 2, 6 and 8,
> then found the hint to try addresses lower than 5.
> 
> phox


Thanks, I figured it out by playing around and trying a different address for the D* box. I set the remote addy on the D* box to 5, it was at 2. Then I went to Harmony and did the confirm infrared commands script and everything works as it should now. Evidently address #2 didn't want to play nice and address #5 does.


----------



## keenanSR

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm having a problem with this. I set my DirecTiVo to 1 and my S3 to 2 (or the other way around). When I went to the Harmony site (mine is a 680), it read the DirecTiVo remote just fine, but received no signal from the S3 remote, which remains resolutely 0 (causing some interesting unintended consequences). Is anybody else having this kind of problem?


Bob, I have the S3 set to addy 1 and the DirecTV HR10-250 to 5. At the Harmony site I had to play around with the angle a little on one of the TiVo remotes to get it to learn the commands, although I don't remember which one it was.

It works perfect now, so far anyway, and yeah, I was having some rather interesting unintended consequences as well before I got it working, it wasn't a lot of fun, that's for sure.

BTW, I deleted the HR10-250 from the Harmony and started from scratch adding it back _after_ I had changed the addy on the box. Not sure if that made the difference or not, pretty sure it was using addy 5.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm having a problem with this. I set my DirecTiVo to 1 and my S3 to 2 (or the other way around). When I went to the Harmony site (mine is a 680), it read the DirecTiVo remote just fine, but received no signal from the S3 remote, which remains resolutely 0 (causing some interesting unintended consequences). Is anybody else having this kind of problem?


I had this exact problem and fixed it by calling Harmony and had them change my S3 from 0 to 1 and left Directivo on 2. Harmony said they had to make this change, I couldn't do it on my own. I have a Harmony 880. having the harmony on 0 caused havoc


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

keenanSR said:


> Bob, I have the S3 set to addy 1 and the DirecTV HR10-250 to 5. At the Harmony site I had to play around with the angle a little on one of the TiVo remotes to get it to learn the commands, although I don't remember which one it was.


I think that was the issue. I changed the S3 remote to 5, and still had the same problem, but when I lifted the S3 remote so that it was aimed slightly above the Harmony, it read perfectly, and now everything works.


----------



## keenanSR

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think that was the issue. I changed the S3 remote to 5, and still had the same problem, but when I lifted the S3 remote so that it was aimed slightly above the Harmony, it read perfectly, and now everything works.


That's exactly what I did, had to aim it a little higher to get it to properly read the signal. Good to here you solved it. When I was initially setting up the S3 I hadn't thought about the S3 remote controlling the HR10-250. It seems that I must have put the HR10-250 through so many contortions that when I went to use it later on I kept getting a screen notifying me that it was shutdown due to a possible overheating condition.

Now, I knew that wasn't really the case as the HR10-250 has run flawlessly since I got it but I went through DirecTV tech support and even have another unit being sent out to replace this one. Turns out, once I solved the remote problem the HR10-250 is working perfectly fine now.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

keenanSR said:


> That's exactly what I did, had to aim it a little higher to get it to properly read the signal. Good to here you solved it. When I was initially setting up the S3 I hadn't thought about the S3 remote controlling the HR10-250. It seems that I must have put the HR10-250 through so many contortions that when I went to use it later on I kept getting a screen notifying me that it was shutdown due to a possible overheating condition.


Heh. After I finished the guided set-up for the S3, I noticed that one of my recordings on the DirecTiVo is now set to Save Until I Delete. If that's the worst that happened, I got off easy!


----------



## Larry in TN

sharding said:


> I'm not sure what the fourth light is for. I've only seen it on when I first powered the machine up.


I think it indicates when a phone call is in progress. It doesn't come on during broadband connections, though, just actual phone calls.


----------



## dnorth12

Regarding 30 sec skip



> Does the 30-second skip backdoor still work?
> Yes. The SPS30S (Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select) code still toggles 30-second skip support on/off.


Never having used the skip before and now knowing how to turn it on, what button on remote activates the function?

I noticed one function that does not seem to work with the S3 that did work with S2 and S1. When you are in the fast forward mode and clicking the advance button on the S1 and S2 would advance about 5 or 10 minute increments. On the S3 it will only send you to the end of the program. Tried it with an S2 and S3 remote on the both S2 and S3 units. Anyone else notice this? Is this related to my question on the 30 sec skip?


----------



## Amnesia

dnorth12 said:


> Is this related to my question on the 30 sec skip?


Yes. Activating 30-second-skip will change the advance button to move ahead in 30-second increments, instead of moving to the end of the program.

Whether or not 30-second-skip is activated, if you are fast-forwarding or rewinding, then pressing the advance button will move you to the next 15-minute marker.


----------



## dnorth12

> Whether or not 30-second-skip is activated, if you are fast-forwarding or rewinding, then pressing the advance button will move you to the next 15-minute marker.


Amnesia - thanks for the response.

Then there might be something wrong with my S3. Pressing the advance button while in fast forward mode goes directly to the end of the program, even if it is 2 hour program and I fast forward and click the advance button at 10 minutes into the program.


----------



## keenanSR

There was a PDF document somewhere that shows the S3 as being a CableLabs approved device. Does anyone recall where that might be?


----------



## dt_dc

keenanSR said:


> There was a PDF document somewhere that shows the S3 as being a CableLabs approved device. Does anyone recall where that might be?


Here:
http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf


----------



## nhey

1. Can you schedule recordings on the S3 over the internet, and if not, is that functionality going to be added soon? I wonder why that functionality was not included from the start, if it is not there now.

2. If you program the 30-second skip, you lose the ability to add a dash (since that is done by using the advance button) which allows you to tune to channels like 3-1. Is there a work around to get the 30-sec skip and retain the ability to add a dash?


----------



## nhey

I have an MX-850 universal remote control that I use to control a Directv HR10-250 as well as the Series 3. 

Is there anyway to differentiate the TIVO code sets so that I don't control both boxes at the same time?


----------



## hiker

nhey said:


> I have an MX-850 universal remote control that I use to control a Directv HR10-250 as well as the Series 3.
> 
> Is there anyway to differentiate the TIVO code sets so that I don't control both boxes at the same time?


See this to set the TiVos to IR code 1 and 2 and use "TIVO 1" (090) and "TIVO 2" (117) from the MX-850 preprogrammed database. You will also need to use the MX-850 learn feature to teach some of the codes that are not preprogrammed.


----------



## Fofer

nhey said:


> 1. Can you schedule recordings on the S3 over the internet...?


Yes, with TiVo Online Scheduling.


----------



## TiVoJerry

dnorth12 said:


> Then there might be something wrong with my S3. Pressing the advance button while in fast forward mode goes directly to the end of the program, even if it is 2 hour program and I fast forward and click the advance button at 10 minutes into the program.


Skip-to-tick only works in recorded programs. Are you saying this happens consistently during playback of a recorded program, or are you trying this in LiveTV?

Per lin 25 of What Do the Buttons on the TiVo Remote Do?
Advance jumps to the end or the beginning of the show if you are watching a recording. If you are watching live TV, you can use it to catch up to the live broadcast. While viewing a recorded playback, this button allows you to Skip to Tick when fast-forwarding or rewinding.


----------



## dnorth12

> Skip-to-tick only works in recorded programs. Are you saying this happens consistently during playback of a recorded program, or are you trying this in LiveTV?
> 
> Per lin 25 of What Do the Buttons on the TiVo Remote Do?
> Advance jumps to the end or the beginning of the show if you are watching a recording. If you are watching live TV, you can use it to catch up to the live broadcast. While viewing a recorded playback, this button allows you to Skip to Tick when fast-forwarding or rewinding.


Thanks. You may be right - I'll double check when I get home tonight. Never thought of that while I was testing it. I know for a fact I was testing a recording on the S2. Don't remember what I was testing on the S3.


----------



## dcstager

I get great HD over the air reception with just a Silver Sensor antenna thingy. I want to record two over the air HD programs simultaneously. Will the series 3 do that?


----------



## TiVoJerry

dcstager said:


> I get great HD over the air reception with just a Silver Sensor antenna thingy. I want to record two over the air HD programs simultaneously. Will the series 3 do that?


Yes, per the FAQ.


----------



## TiVoJerry

EricScott said:


> My display (Samsung DLP) won't accept 480i over HDMI. Can I still use Native or will SD channels get messed up? On my 8300 HD I pass it 480p, 720p and 1080i with pretty good results. Would love to be able to do the same thing w/ an S3.


720p hybrid displays all HD video at 720p and all SD video at 480p. 
1080i hybrid displays all HD video at 108i and all SD video at 480p

When using hybrid mode, you may experience flickering as the TV changes when the format swaps. This can also cause the channel to change slower as the S3 changes output settings.

I personally utilize 1080i fixed to avoid the slowdown and flickering, although it is possible that some video will suffer slight degradation during upconvertion, but it hasn't been much of an issue.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

TiVoJerry said:


> ... 1080i hybrid displays all HD video at 108i and all SD video at 480p ...


I heard the *108i* resolution isn't all that popular these days


----------



## dnorth12

Retested the skip feature properly and it worked properly. Thanks for the reeducation and the kick in the pants to read the manual before asking questions on something that is already covered.

30 sec skip works great as well and it is nice that it codes in the TIVO unit and not the remote. That way I don't have to learn the code to my Harmony. It just works.


----------



## phox_mulder

DCIFRTHS said:


> I heard the *108i* resolution isn't all that popular these days


It's pretty popular with the video Ipod crowd.

phox


----------



## wmcbrine

nhey said:


> 2. If you program the 30-second skip, you lose the ability to add a dash (since that is done by using the advance button) which allows you to tune to channels like 3-1.


No, you don't. The same code is sent by the remote, and in the context of entering channel numbers, the interpretation by the Tivo remains the same. Only the interpretation during playback changes.


----------



## nhey

hiker said:


> See this to set the TiVos to IR code 1 and 2 and use "TIVO 1" (090) and "TIVO 2" (117) from the MX-850 preprogrammed database. You will also need to use the MX-850 learn feature to teach some of the codes that are not preprogrammed.


Thanks a lot. It does work perfectly.


----------



## dcstager

Q: I get great HD over the air reception with just a Silver Sensor antenna thingy. I want to record two over the air HD programs simultaneously. Will the series 3 do that?



TiVoJerry said:


> Yes, per the FAQ.


The FAQ says it has one input for cable and one input for antenna and it can record two programs at a time from any mix of sources. So does this mean it can record over the air HD from the cable input in addition to the antenna input? Do I split my silver sensor to each connection or will I be able to record two over the air HD broadcasts if the antenna is connected to the single antenna input?


----------



## MichaelK

dcstager said:


> Q: I get great HD over the air reception with just a Silver Sensor antenna thingy. I want to record two over the air HD programs simultaneously. Will the series 3 do that?
> 
> The FAQ says it has one input for cable and one input for antenna and it can record two programs at a time from any mix of sources. So does this mean it can record over the air HD from the cable input in addition to the antenna input? Do I split my silver sensor to each connection or will I be able to record two over the air HD broadcasts if the antenna is connected to the single antenna input?


there's an internal splitter to 2 ATSC OTA tuners.

connect one antenna to the single jack and it does what it needs to do.


----------



## TiVoJerry

dcstager said:


> The FAQ says it has one input for cable and one input for antenna and it can record two programs at a time from any mix of sources. So does this mean it can record over the air HD from the cable input in addition to the antenna input? Do I split my silver sensor to each connection or will I be able to record two over the air HD broadcasts if the antenna is connected to the single antenna input?


See How Do I Set Up My Series3 HD DVR?


----------



## balt

> *What about one single-stream card?*
> If only one CableCARD is inserted, the entire system reverts to single-tuner operation. You lose dual-tuner support for antenna and analog cable, as well as digital cable. Unlike the S2DT, the S3 is not capable of asymmetric operation.


I talked with Tivo support today and they said the Series 3 will work with one cable card and antenna/cable as the other tuner. You can dual tune the regular stations but the digital stations will be single tune since you only have 1 cable card
to tune the digital stations. The Tivo User guide states you need two cards for dual tuner but they are talking about dual tuning digital channels so what support said may be right. Anyone have a single cable card and antenna/cable for the other tuner to verify this?


----------



## megazone

balt said:


> Anyone have a single cable card and antenna/cable for the other tuner to verify this?


I tested it with one CableCARD - that's how I found out about the limitation. With just one card the second tuner was *gone*, disabled completely.


----------



## TiVoJerry

balt said:


> I talked with Tivo support today and they said the Series 3 will work with one cable card and antenna/cable as the other tuner. You can dual tune the regular stations but the digital stations will be single tune since you only have 1 cable card
> to tune the digital stations. The Tivo User guide states you need two cards for dual tuner but they are talking about dual tuning digital channels so what support said may be right. Anyone have a single cable card and antenna/cable for the other tuner to verify this?


They are confusing the behavior of the S3 with that of the S2 DT (symmetrical tuner vs asymmetrical).

With S3 using one single stream CableCARD, the box only works as a single tuner regardless of source. No dual tuning just on antenna or analog cable when that single card is in place. This is the only configuration that takes the S3 down to single tuner status.

We're looking into whether or not this behavior can be modified in the future, but this is how it works right now.


----------



## JakiChan

TiVoJerry said:


> I personally utilize 1080i fixed to avoid the slowdown and flickering, although it is possible that some video will suffer slight degradation during upconvertion, but it hasn't been much of an issue.


I *really* wouldn't want to correct the manufacturer but if you're going to set a fixed resolution the best one to use is the "native" format for the set, so I would set it to 720p if you have a 720p set.

That being said I might recommend that folks experiment with the options. Your TV set might have better upsampling/downsampling hardware or software than the external box. I know with my Hitachi that's usually the case.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

JakiChan said:


> I *really* wouldn't want to correct the manufacturer but if you're going to set a fixed resolution the best one to use is the "native" format for the set, so I would set it to 720p if you have a 720p set.


Yes. I have a 720p set, and every setting other than 720p fixed causes problems ranging from long image drop-outs while changing channels to flat-out losing the picture.


----------



## hiker

I haven't seen this answered but I may have missed it.

Are CableCARDs able to be swapped into another S3? For example, I have my S3 setup with 2 CableCARDs and suddendly my hard drive fails and I am sent a replacement S3. Can I just remove the cards, install in new S3 and don't have to call cable co.? Or are CableCARDs married to a particular S3?


----------



## Spiff72

hiker said:


> I haven't seen this answered but I may have missed it.
> 
> Are CableCARDs able to be swapped into another S3? For example, I have my S3 setup with 2 CableCARDs and suddendly my hard drive fails and I am sent a replacement S3. Can I just remove the cards, install in new S3 and don't have to call cable co.? Or are CableCARDs married to a particular S3?


You will have to call the cableco and possibly have a tech do the swap for you. The cablecards are "married" to the equipment they are installed in, so they can't be swapped.


----------



## Roderigo

hiker said:


> Are CableCARDs able to be swapped into another S3? For example, I have my S3 setup with 2 CableCARDs and suddendly my hard drive fails and I am sent a replacement S3. Can I just remove the cards, install in new S3 and don't have to call cable co.? Or are CableCARDs married to a particular S3?


Depends on how your cable company is set up. If they're using any form of copy protection, the cards need to be bound to the host (the slot on the S3). As soon as you move the card (or put a different card into the slot), that breaks the binding, and you'd have to call your cable company to re-bind the cards.

If the cable company doesn't take down the HostID from each slot, there's no way they could have done the binding.

If they do take the number, that doesn't mean you require the binding, but they could change that at any time.


----------



## megazone

FAQ updated to v1.2


----------



## Gator1

Is it correct the remote can be programed to operate the TV OR the A/V receiver but not both?? I had set up the TV which worked fine. When I set up the A/V receiver, it worked but the TV did not.


----------



## ringtone

My question deals with the new Series3 and the home media option. My house has two TV's and one Tivo. If I were to buy the new Series3 and move my lifetime subscription to the Series3, what happens to my older Series2. Can I link the two so I can watch Tivo programs on either TV? It is enough to pay for service for one Tivo.


----------



## Fofer

ringtone said:


> My question deals with the new Series3 and the home media option. My house has two TV's and one Tivo. If I were to buy the new Series3 and move my lifetime subscription to the Series3, what happens to my older Series2. Can I link the two so I can watch Tivo programs on either TV? It is enough to pay for service for one Tivo.


No, that's called "MultiRoom Viewing" and it's not possible at this time with the Series 3. TiVo says they're working on it and hope to enable it one day... but as with all things of this nature... no guarantees.


----------



## MichaelK

Gator1 said:


> Is it correct the remote can be programed to operate the TV OR the A/V receiver but not both?? I had set up the TV which worked fine. When I set up the A/V receiver, it worked but the TV did not.


it can work for both.

Search for the thread I posted.

Sometimes it's hard to find the AV code for power, but you can do a code search form the remote and find it that way (assuming it exists...)

It "tv power" can power on/off the tv AND AV receiver at once. THe volume buttons and mute will only work the AV volume. The input button will control TV input.


----------



## Racquetballjim

If I buy an S3 and transfer my S2 lifetime warranty, and elect not to buy service on the old unit:

1) Will I still be able to use the S2 to record shows by time and date? If so,

2) Will I continually get nag screens telling me I need to buy service?

3) Will TiVo disable the ability to transfer shows to my PC (since the S3 apparently won't do this)?

4) I don't use credit cards. If I give a friend the cash to order an S3 for me, will TiVo try to automatically start charging her credit card after 12 months to continue service on my old unit?


My current status: I don't have (or want) satellite or cable. I have an "over the air" HD Decoder allowing me to watch HD shows live on my HD Ready TV, and a Series 2 for recording shows in standard defnition if I'm not home.


----------



## 1283

1. no
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes


----------



## hiker

Racquetballjim said:


> If I buy an S3 and transfer my S2 lifetime warranty, and elect not to buy service on the old unit:
> 
> 1) Will I still be able to use the S2 to record shows by time and date? If so,
> 
> 2) Will I continually get nag screens telling me I need to buy service?
> 
> 3) Will TiVo disable the ability to transfer shows to my PC (since the S3 apparently won't do this)?
> 
> 4) I don't use credit cards. If I give a friend the cash to order an S3 for me, will TiVo try to automatically start charging her credit card after 12 months to continue service on my old unit?
> 
> My current status: I don't have (or want) satellite or cable. I have an "over the air" HD Decoder allowing me to watch HD shows live on my HD Ready TV, and a Series 2 for recording shows in standard defnition if I'm not home.


If you use the VIP offer to transfer lifetime to the S3, the S2 will have free service on it for one year.


----------



## hiker

megazone said:


> FAQ updated to v1.2


Suggestion: add this to FAQ  
TiVo Service required before CableCard install?
Same Q another thread


----------



## TeeVohFan

It is amazing how TiVo is changing my buying habits. I was all set to subscribe to DirecTV and buy a DirecTiVo, then DTV announced they were dropping TiVo. So that put that on hold. Then I was waiting for the S3 to see what features it had. Now CATV suddenly looks good simply because of the S3's CableCARD support.

As I mentioned in another thread, $800 seems like a bit much because I don't have any HD hardware yet so I'm going to use it as an NTSC device for a while and that means I'd actually be minus features for a while. So things I'm waiting to hear about are:

What the eSATA port will do (DVD burner, backup disc, RAID 1 mirror or external data storage are all good)
Will the USB ports do any of that (stuff above)?
MRV?
TiVoToGo?
But I'm not in a rush, I'm hoping around the time most of those questions are answered (with approximate availability dates) that the S3 price will have dropped a bit.


----------



## lemketron

TeeVohFan said:


> ...Then I was waiting for the S3 to see what features it had. Now CATV suddenly looks good simply because of the S3's CableCARD support. As I mentioned in another thread, $800 seems like a bit much because I don't have any HD hardware yet so I'm going to use it as an NTSC device for a while and that means I'd actually be minus features for a while.


You're kidding, right? I honestly wouldn't bother with S3 if you don't have a HD set to connect to it.



> So things I'm waiting to hear about are:
> What the eSATA port will do (DVD burner, backup disc, RAID 1 mirror or external data storage are all good)


Nothing yet.



> Will the USB ports do any of that (stuff above)?


Nope.



> MRV?


Not (yet?).



> TiVoToGo?


Not (yet?).



> But I'm not in a rush, I'm hoping around the time most of those questions are answered (with approximate availability dates) that the S3 price will have dropped a bit.


Good thing you're not in a rush. I'd say since you don't yet have an HD set, skip the S3 at this point. Get a S2 if you don't already have one so you at least don't have to watch live TV. The boxes can be bought (used w/o service) for next to nothing, or in some cases, new ones can be free after an activation rebate.

I have an S3, but I wouldn't have bothered if our old SD TV hadn't died, causing us to consider for six months (and ultimately decide to) upgrade to an HD set. I think it's still early for HD in terms of the amount of content available (especially on older Comcast 550 MHz systems like in Sunnyvale), but once you get over the hurdle of buying the results are nothing short of spectacular. (I had no idea Rick Steves' Europe was now in HD thanks to PBS, and it's beautiful!)


----------



## DOBE

The detailed list of photos was very informative. Thanks megazone.

Does the 3 allow stretching or zooming (elimination of black/grey side bars) on HD channels (e.g 13-1) which are broadcasting 4:3 programming? Thanks.


----------



## MichaelK

megazone said:


> ...
> 
> *Which CPU does the S3 use?*
> It is hidden under a heat sink, but it is believed to be the BCM7038.
> ...


the other place confirmed it's a BCM7038.

At least that's what the console boot output indicates:



> ...
> POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
> BCM7042 MPEG2 Encoder on PCI slot 0xc @ d2000000
> BCM7042 MPEG2 Encoder on PCI slot 0xd @ d2400000
> BCM7411 Decoder on PCI slot 0xe @ d3000000
> cmd 0x2a00002 0x2a00002 BAR0 0xd4000000 BAR1 0xd3000000
> Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
> Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
> Initializing RT netlink socket
> Starting kswapd
> Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.31
> ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
> Broadcom BCM7038IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 01 dev 00
> Broadcom BCM7038IDE: chipset revision 0
> Broadcom BCM7038IDE: 100% native mode on irq 49
> ide0: BM-DMA at 0x0300-0x0307, BIOS settings: hdaMA, hdbMA
> ide1: BM-DMA at 0x0308-0x030f, BIOS settings: hdcMA, hddMA
> hda: WDC WD2500BS-55RPB1, ATA DISK drive
> ...


----------



## snathanb

DOBE said:


> The detailed list of photos was very informative. Thanks megazone.
> 
> Does the 3 allow stretching or zooming (elimination of black/grey side bars) on HD channels (e.g 13-1) which are broadcasting 4:3 programming? Thanks.


I can answer this one....

It does if you set the aspect ratio to 4:3... 
However, it does not if you set the aspect ratio to 16:9.


----------



## DOBE

snathanb said:


> I can answer this one....
> 
> It does if you set the aspect ratio to 4:3...
> However, it does not if you set the aspect ratio to 16:9.


Thank you! I believe that's a new feature for TIVO.

I have a Sony HD 200 STB. It also stretches 4:3 formatted material being sent over an HD channel, if the 1080i/720p signal is forced to 480p. It does a much better job of stretching than the older boxes and TNT HD...when they stretch SD material.

I'm hoping because of the quality of the series 3, the stretching is barely noticeable. It's a personal preference, but if the tuner will stretch evenly from the outer 1/4 of the picture, I would rather watch that picture than the black/grey bars.

How good a job does the series 3 do with the stretching? Thanks.


----------



## FlippedBit

Thanks for all of the info. Could you give the length of the cables in the FAQ please. Specifically I want to know how long the Component cables are. Thanks


----------



## tunnelengineer

I can't verify the cable length right now, but they are not very long. I would suggest getting a longer set so you can pull out the tivo without disconnecting cables each time you need to mess with a cablecard (hopefully not very often). 

Now that the S3 is in my house, I am starting a fund for a rotating component rack system. I have had enough with all the cable mess.


----------



## mgtbeck

I hope this is a quick newbie question. I'm thinking of getting the DVR set top box to go with the S3 for additional recording capacity. In other words, no cable cards. The set top box and S3 both have dual tuners. If I set this up as cable to box to Tivo will I be able to record on the STB and still access a different channel with Tivo at the same time? The cable guy says that when TIVO changes the channel of the STB I'm stuck on the same channel for both. Thanks.


----------



## keenanSR

mgtbeck said:


> I hope this is a quick newbie question. I'm thinking of getting the DVR set top box to go with the S3 for additional recording capacity. In other words, no cable cards. The set top box and S3 both have dual tuners. If I set this up as cable to box to Tivo will I be able to record on the STB and still access a different channel with Tivo at the same time? The cable guy says that when TIVO changes the channel of the STB I'm stuck on the same channel for both. Thanks.


You're getting a cable supplied DVR? Just use a splitter and feed each box a line.


----------



## Spiff72

mgtbeck said:


> I hope this is a quick newbie question. I'm thinking of getting the DVR set top box to go with the S3 for additional recording capacity. In other words, no cable cards. The set top box and S3 both have dual tuners. If I set this up as cable to box to Tivo will I be able to record on the STB and still access a different channel with Tivo at the same time? The cable guy says that when TIVO changes the channel of the STB I'm stuck on the same channel for both. Thanks.


The S3 cannot control a cablebox (to the best of my knowledge), since it doesn't have any inputs other than the coax ones (there are no Component/Composite/Svideo inputs). Therefore, the S3 doesn't have the ability to control a cable box for recording purposes, since it can't record from any external source, other than the possible exception of being able to record an RF modulated output from a cable box. This approach would be a collosal waste of money, though (you can't record in HD this way).

You could use a cable DVR and an S3 at the same time, but you will need cablecards to get 2-tuner capability, and the ability to record any digital channels that are normally encrypted by the cable company. In addition, you can't record digital channels that are sent unencrypted (local HD channels are sometimes supplied this way) unless you do manual recordings. You can't map these channels to the Tivo guide at this time, so season pass recordings on these types of channels aren't possible.


----------



## musictoo

So, after exhaustive reading I haven't seen this answered yet. I know that the output is simultaneous for each output on the TiVo. I know the aspect ratio is global for all outputs. Is there a button on the remote to change the aspect ratio? Or do you have to go into the setup to do that? I want to set the S3 up with my HD TV in one room and pipe the composite up to my SD TV and I don't want to have a bunch of button presses to get the picture correct for each TV. Hope I've explained this clearly enough.


----------



## hiker

musictoo said:


> So, after exhaustive reading I haven't seen this answered yet. I know that the output is simultaneous for each output on the TiVo. I know the aspect ratio is global for all outputs. Is there a button on the remote to change the aspect ratio? Or do you have to go into the setup to do that? I want to set the S3 up with my HD TV in one room and pipe the composite up to my SD TV and I don't want to have a bunch of button presses to get the picture correct for each TV. Hope I've explained this clearly enough.


Yes there is a separate button on the remote for Aspect. It cycles between Full, Panel and Zoom. As an alternative, the same can be done with the menu Aspect Correction Mode. If you are viewing an HD channel, it seems to do nothing unless the TV Aspect Ratio menu is set to 4:3 Classic Screen. If you are viewing an SD channel, it seems to do nothing unless the TV Aspect Ratio menu is set to 16:9 Widescreen. If the TV Aspect Ratio menu is set to 4:3 Smart Screen, the Aspect button does nothing for either SD or HD channel. My tests were done on a 16:9 monitor using component and 4:3 SD TV using S-Video.


----------



## musictoo

Thanks Hiker. If you are watching a 16:9 HD program via component or HDMI, what displays on the SD TV at that time?


----------



## jfh3

musictoo said:


> Is there a button on the remote to change the aspect ratio?


No.



> Or do you have to go into the setup to do that?


Yes.


----------



## Fofer

jfh3 said:


> No.


Are you sure about that?


----------



## hiker

musictoo said:


> Thanks Hiker. If you are watching a 16:9 HD program via component or HDMI, what displays on the SD TV at that time?


The 16:9 image is compressed side-to-side to 4:3 so that people and objects look tall and skinny. I don't think there is an option to truncate the sides so the SD image is not distorted.

Thanks for the pic, Fofer.
jfh3, I don't know what problem you are having. Maybe you were thinking of resolution instead of aspect because there is no way, like the HR10-250, to change resolution with the remote unless you use a menu.


----------



## keenanSR

hiker said:


> The 16:9 image is compressed side-to-side to 4:3 so that people and objects look tall and skinny. I don't think there is an option to truncate the sides so the SD image is not distorted.
> 
> Thanks for the pic, Fofer.
> jfh3, I don't know what problem you are having. Maybe you were thinking of resolution instead of aspect because there is no way, like the HR10-250, to change resolution with the remote unless you use a menu.


To change the output resolution on a HR10-250 you just hit the Down arrow and it cycles through the output resolutions you have set up to be used in the menu. Works fine, I haven't tried it with the S3 to see if it does the same thing as I'm using native which does it on the fly.


----------



## hiker

keenanSR said:


> To change the output resolution on a HR10-250 you just hit the Down arrow and it cycles through the output resolutions you have set up to be used in the menu. Works fine, I haven't tried it with the S3 to see if it does the same thing as I'm using native which does it on the fly.


keenan, no such option on the S3. There should be. And BTW, on the HR10 it's the UP arrow to change output resolution, which has to be first enabled on a menu.


----------



## keenanSR

hiker said:


> keenan, no such option on the S3. There should be. And BTW, on the HR10 it's the UP arrow to change output resolution, which has to be first enabled on a menu.


Yeah, I couldn't remember which it was, I knew it was one of them.


----------



## jfh3

hiker said:


> jfh3, I don't know what problem you are having. Maybe you were thinking of resolution instead of aspect because there is no way, like the HR10-250, to change resolution with the remote unless you use a menu.


I don't have any problem. The poster I was responding to wanted to be able to change the output ratio for different TVs between 16x9 and 4x3.

The Aspect key on the Series 3 remote changes the zoom and presentation, not the video formatting type and probably should be labeled "Zoom" rather than "Aspect".

So, my answer still stands. To change the output you have to go into Settings/Video/TV Aspect Ratio and you can't do that with just a button press on the remote.


----------



## jfh3

Fofer said:


> Are you sure about that?


Yes. 

The "Aspect" key doesn't do what the poster wanted to do and functions more like the "Zoom" or "Wide" key on most TV remotes.


----------



## musictoo

jfh3 said:


> I don't have any problem. The poster I was responding to wanted to be able to change the output ratio for different TVs between 16x9 and 4x3.
> 
> The Aspect key on the Series 3 remote changes the zoom and presentation, not the video formatting type and probably should be labeled "Zoom" rather than "Aspect".
> 
> So, my answer still stands. To change the output you have to go into Settings/Video/TV Aspect Ratio and you can't do that with just a button press on the remote.


Thanks for the info. Bummer, I was hoping to just do a simple macro on the remote for each TV. Doesn't sound like that will be to easy now...


----------



## keenanSR

I posted this over at AVS so I figured I'd post here as well. I don't recall if any of this had been addressed earlier in the thread, and if it belongs somewhere else, maybe a mod can move it.

Okay, here's the procedure for speeding up the Harmony remote, in my case an 880.

In the device column select "Troubleshooting" for the device in question and you should be presented with the following screens. Select the ones I've marked to proceed through the adjustment.




























At the below screen I found that the 880 was set at "3". I reset at "2" and updated. It was a bit quicker. I went back in and reset all the way to "0" and updated. 









It seems as fast as the S3 remote now, very quick in the menus and seems to be the same speed as the S3 in the guide, which is slow even with the S3 remote. Very happy with how the 880 works with the S3 now. At a minimum, it is at least as fast as the S3 remote.

One caveat, by lowering the repeat number, the "0-5", the tech said the S3 may not respond correctly to some inputs. So far, I have not seen any problem using the menus or the guide so I'm leaving it set at "0" for now.


----------



## gagadguy

The cable cards just plug into the Tivo (bottom slot first). The cable goes only into the lower coax input. That input will be used for both cable cards. If you also have an antenna, it will connect to the top coax. The cable cards have only a double row of pins that connect once it is pushed fully into the card slots.


----------



## megazone

FlippedBit said:


> Thanks for all of the info. Could you give the length of the cables in the FAQ please. Specifically I want to know how long the Component cables are. Thanks


If someone is willing to measure the cables I will. I'd rather not tear my entire system apart to get the cables out to measure.


----------



## keenanSR

megazone said:


> If someone is willing to measure the cables I will. I'd rather not tear my entire system apart to get the cables out to measure.


The component set is 6', the rest of the cables all look to be 6' as well although I didn't open those packages, just the component.


----------



## lemketron

keenanSR said:


> The component set is 6', the rest of the cables all look to be 6' as well although I didn't open those packages, just the component.


Actually, I asked about the HDMI cable length before I went and ordered a longer one. Turns out the HDMI cable that comes with the Series 3 is (or was, in my case anyway) 2 meters long (and fairly thin but hey, it seems to work beautifully). That 2 meters ended up being been long enough so I am not actually using the 10' (heavy-duty) cable I ordered from Monoprice...


----------



## IceStorm

jfh3 said:


> I don't have any problem. The poster I was responding to wanted to be able to change the output ratio for different TVs between 16x9 and 4x3.
> 
> The Aspect key on the Series 3 remote changes the zoom and presentation, not the video formatting type and probably should be labeled "Zoom" rather than "Aspect".
> 
> So, my answer still stands. To change the output you have to go into Settings/Video/TV Aspect Ratio and you can't do that with just a button press on the remote.


Not exactly. It depends on the TV type setting.

With 16:9 set as my TV type (Sony KDF-42WE655) and video output via HDMI to the TV and via s-video to a Slingbox:

Viewing a HDTV channel:

- The Aspect button has no effect. The TV displays the correct image, but the SlingPlayer in 4:3 mode displays a vertically-stretched image.

Viewing a SDTV channel:

- Setting Full stretches the display to fit the aspect ratio of the screen. This results in a horizontally-stretched image on the TV, but a properly formatted image on the 4:3 SlingPlayer screen.

- Setting Pannel adds pillarboxing, so the image is a 4:3 box inside a 16:9 window with grey bars on the left and right of the TV image, but the SlingPlayer shows a vertically stretched image with the TV image sandwiched between grey boxes.

- Setting Zoom displays a 16:9 window of the image on the TV. The image is scaled properly, but chopped off on the top, bottom, left, and right. On the SlingPlayer, I get a vertically stretched image.

The above holds true if you set the TV to Smart mode.

If you set the TV to Classic 4:3, then the effects are reversed:

Viewing a SD channel:

- The Aspect button has no effect. The 4:3 SlingPlayer displays the correct image, but the TV displays a vertically compressed image.

Viewing a HD channel:

- Full mode displays a vertically stretched image on the 4:3 SlingPlayer. The image is properly formatted on the TV

- Panel mode displays a properly letterboxed image on the 4:3 SlingPlayer. The image is vertically compressed on the TV with grey bars on the top and bottom.

- Zoom mode scales up the image so it fills a 4:3 display, at the cost of cutting off the sides of the image. The image looks correct on the 4:3 SlingPlayer, but vertically compressed on the TV

It dpends on what format you view most often and whether or not you want to watch on both displays at once as to what settings are right for you.

It's not as versatile as the options on an SA 4200HD or 8300HD, which can format the output independently for Component/HDMI and s-video/composite, but it's not a total loss.


----------



## IceStorm

Putting this in a separate reply as it's a completely separate topic.

I have found a situation in which not all outputs are active at the same time. In the following specific situation, I'm pretty sure all outputs are disabled:

- Attach a TV via HDMI.
- Attach another TV (or SlingBox) to s-video/composite output
- Tune the TiVo to a channel with a CCI flag of 0x02 (copy once). For me, this means BBC World on Cablevision, any of my SD Starz or Encores, and most of my SD HBOs.
- Turn "off" the TV (which for most TVs means Standby these days). Give it about two minutes.
- Attempt to watch the CCI 0x02 channel over s-video or composite. You'll get the TiVo warning, "Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital Media Recorder... Try another TV input"

Now, go unplug the HDMI cable from the TV. Presto! You get your channel back on s-video/composite.

There are three "HDMI Status:" values I've seen in System Information:

- Not connected
- HDCP not enabled
- HDCP enabled

For some reason, when my TV is off, instead of going Not Connected, the HDMI Status: field goes to "HDCP not enabled". This cuts off output of CCI 0x02 channels via, I believe, all other outputs (I'm not dragging my 27" Sony with component input over to the 42" Sony to check this. TiVo can if they feel like it.) Channels set to CCI 0x00, like Comedy Central and Cartoon Network (and all my HD channels) are unaffected.

I don't get why CCI 0x02 would cause this problem. CCI 0x02 is "copy once" according to ANSI/SCTE 41 If Not Connected can show CCI 0x02 over s-video/composite, why can't it show if HDMI Status: is in the "HDCP not enabled" limbo state? Not connected is akin to being "not enabled" from a non-HDCP-capable output's point of view, isn't it?

My SA 8300HD via the same HDMI cable to the same TV with the same SlingBox connection? When the TV's off, the Slingbox still gets video from the 8300HD over composite, s-video, and RF.

I'll try to submit a bug to TiVo, but they've been somewhat unresponsive. I get the feeling they won't take my input unless I drag the two TVs to each other...

EDIT: Called TiVo today. They know about the HDMI problem! Woo-hoo! No word on if/when a fix may come out, but the engineers at least know about it. For now I'll just use Component.


----------



## rtjones

TiVoJerry said:


> 720p hybrid displays all HD video at 720p and all SD video at 480p.
> 1080i hybrid displays all HD video at 108i and all SD video at 480p
> 
> When using hybrid mode, you may experience flickering as the TV changes when the format swaps. This can also cause the channel to change slower as the S3 changes output settings.
> 
> I personally utilize 1080i fixed to avoid the slowdown and flickering, although it is possible that some video will suffer slight degradation during upconvertion, but it hasn't been much of an issue.


Do you agree, then, to achieve the best HD video image, one should choose 'native' as the TiVo video output? The slight degradation you refer to would be 720p being scaled to 1080i, right? In the '1080i fixed' mode, does 1080i material get passed-through, with no processing? Ultimately, I'm trying to learn of all the factors that play in the answer to, what S3 video output will produce the best image for my 1366x768 monitor? I believe the answer is native, but the native output produces the awful flicker. So it seems I need to choose the lesser of two evils... What chip(s) is/are used for video processing in the S3?


----------



## Amnesia

rtjones said:


> Do you agree, then, to achieve the best HD video image, one should choose 'native' as the TiVo video output?


No, it's not that simple.

The issue is whether the TiVo or your TV has a better video scaler. Your TV is 720p; you should compare the picture using 720 fixed or native and see which you prefer. The fixed format won't have the flicker, but it may or may not produce a better picture for non-720p broadcasts.


----------



## rtjones

Amnesia said:


> No, it's not that simple.
> 
> The issue is whether the TiVo or your TV has a better video scaler. Your TV is 720p; you should compare the picture using 720 fixed or native and see which you prefer. The fixed format won't have the flicker, but it may or may not produce a better picture for non-720p broadcasts.


Exactly, that's why I asked what technology the S3 uses to deinterlace/scale, as I want to understand which hardware is best, the S3 or my monitor. To your point, is my monitor actually 720p (at 1366x768)? I understood it to be 768 native, so my monitor then, upon receiving a 720p image, must scale it to 768p. Is that accurate?


----------



## TiVoJerry

rtjones said:


> Do you agree, then, to achieve the best HD video image, one should choose 'native' as the TiVo video output? The slight degradation you refer to would be 720p being scaled to 1080i, right? In the '1080i fixed' mode, does 1080i material get passed-through, with no processing? Ultimately, I'm trying to learn of all the factors that play in the answer to, what S3 video output will produce the best image for my 1366x768 monitor? I believe the answer is native, but the native output produces the awful flicker. So it seems I need to choose the lesser of two evils... When the video output is selected, what chip(s) is/are used for video processing in the S3?


Yes, in my opinion, native is the best format in regards to video quality. (Edited afterwards to say it's my opinion since Amnesia's answer is better than mine!)

Yes, you have to choose between video quality or the annoyance of the evil screen flicker. As you can see, I personally go with a lesser VQ as it is not as noticeable as frequent screen flicker. Someone with a better TV would likely not suffer the same affliction, at least not as often or as long.


----------



## Amnesia

rtjones said:


> Exactly, that's why I asked what technology the S3 uses to deinterlace/scale, as I want to understand which hardware is best, the S3 or my monitor.


"which hardware is best" is subjective. You need to compare a few different types of programs and decide for yourself.


----------



## rtjones

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes, in my opinion, native is the best format in regards to video quality. (Edited afterwards to say it's my opinion since Amnesia's answer is better than mine!)
> 
> Yes, you have to choose between video quality or the annoyance of the evil screen flicker. As you can see, I personally go with a lesser VQ as it is not as noticeable as frequent screen flicker. Someone with a better TV would likely not suffer the same affliction, at least not as often or as long.


One last question on this subject, Jerry, why choose 1080i fixed over 720p? I'm not suggesting 720p would provide a better image, just curious. Well, the difference is certainly minor. I've tested a 720p native image, in TiVo's output of 1) native, 2) 1080i fixed, and 3) 720p fixed, and I simply cannot see a difference. I realize that doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I cannot see it. So, that should be my answer right there, it's all relative to my experience. Thanks!


----------



## keenanSR

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes, in my opinion, native is the best format in regards to video quality. (Edited afterwards to say it's my opinion since Amnesia's answer is better than mine!)
> 
> .


Running native into a video processor like the DVDO VP50 is _the_ way to go, looks spectacular.


----------



## rtjones

Amnesia said:


> "which hardware is best" is subjective. You need to compare a few different types of programs and decide for yourself.


I'm referring to metrics, measurable differences, that are not subjective. But, as you suggest, that measurable answer may not matter if my eyes cannot perceive it.


----------



## TiVoJerry

rtjones said:


> One last question on this subject, Jerry, why choose 1080i fixed over 720p? I'm not suggesting 720p would provide a better image, just curious. Well, the difference is certainly minor. I've tested a 720p native image, in TiVo's output of 1) native, 2) 1080i fixed, and 3) 720p fixed, and I simply cannot see a difference. I realize that doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I cannot see it. So, that should be my answer right there, it's all relative to my experience. Thanks!


My 4-year old TV (no HDMI) has a separate component input for 720p than it does for 1080i. I don't want to keep switching the cables around when switching from one device to another through my A/V. Like I said, personal preference but mostly due to hardware limitation.....and it's a mess back there!


----------



## rtjones

keenanSR said:


> Running native into a video processor like the DVDO VP50 is _the_ way to go, looks spectacular.


I don't want to spend to much space on this subject, as it may be off-topic, but I've been curious about this very product for some time. Maybe not the VP50, but one of the DVDO products. Do you see an equally impressive difference in SD broadcast vs SD DVD vs 720p vs 1080i? (I think those are the 4 most common). Is it pretty awesome all the way around? I have a calibrated (just 3 days ago, in fact) Panasonic plasma (new in '05), and can't imagine an image better than network cable HD. Although I wouldn't bet against it!  Look forward to your reply.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

keenanSR said:


> Running native into a video processor like the DVDO VP50 is _the_ way to go, looks spectacular.


For $3000 the results should look *SPECTACULAR!*


----------



## cwoody222

Just realized and then read here to confirm that the Recently Deleted folder isn't even included yet 

C'mon TiVo... how hard is that?!


----------



## rtjones

Phantom Gremlin said:


> For $3000 the results should look *SPECTACULAR!*


Here, here!


----------



## keenanSR

rtjones said:


> I don't want to spend to much space on this subject, as it may be off-topic, but I've been curious about this very product for some time. Maybe not the VP50, but one of the DVDO products. Do you see an equally impressive difference in SD broadcast vs SD DVD vs 720p vs 1080i? (I think those are the 4 most common). Is it pretty awesome all the way around? I have a calibrated (just 3 days ago, in fact) Panasonic plasma (new in '05), and can't imagine an image better than network cable HD. Although I wouldn't bet against it!  Look forward to your reply.


The old saying, "garbage in, garbage out" applies with just about any VP, but it can make some improvements by eliminating the usually just good enough deinterlacer/scaler function of most STBs. Having the VP50 handle that instead does provide for an improvement as it's arguably the best on the market at that function, certainly better than anything you'll find in a cable or sat STB and in probably most all displays.

The native output ability of the S3 allows the VP50 do all the heavy lifting and can deinterlace and scale to just about any output resolution you want, including but not limited to 1920x1080p.

Is it worth the cost? Hard to say, everyone's needs are different. One of the biggest advantages I like about it the 4 HDMI input since I only have one on my display. Plus, you can calibrate each individual input and input resolution. It's highly versatile.

I suggest you take a look at the threads over at AVS, full of info including participation by DVDO themselves. There's a few different models, including the VP20, VP30 and the flagship, the VP50.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8623893#post8623893
New DVDO iScan VP50 - AVS Forum

Also should add that DVDO has some of the best, if not the best, customer support in the the whole CE industry, simply outstanding, and their upgrade program is unparalleled as far as I know.


----------



## Fofer

cwoody222 said:


> Just realized and then read here to confirm that the Recently Deleted folder isn't even included yet
> 
> C'mon TiVo... how hard is that?!


Hear, hear!

Personally I won't consider the Series 3 until (at the very least) it has the latest software... with the "Recently Deleted" folder, and KidZone.


----------



## mercurial

Fofer said:


> Hear, hear!
> 
> Personally I won't consider the Series 3 until (at the very least) it has the latest software... with the "Recently Deleted" folder, and KidZone.


You have kids?


----------



## MichaelK

everytime they spit out a new box this seems to happen (a few more recent features like one touch delete and kidzone in this care are missing)- at some point they branch and just work on the feature set in existance at that point. And usually a relatively quick update puts those things back in. It's been posted numerous times that that "even out" download is scheduled for November.

Don't buy the initial release from tivo if you dont want to be missing stuff- just wait a few months till the 'catch up' comes out.


----------



## Fofer

mercurial said:


> You have kids?


No. Why do you ask?


----------



## Spiff72

mercurial said:


> You have kids?


Maybe he just likes the Kidzone content!


----------



## mercurial

Spiff72 said:


> Maybe he just likes the Kidzone content!


What? Fofer is a big baby?

/ducks


----------



## Fofer

Heh. 





Yes, I'm interested in the "Recently Deleted" folder. KidZone just happens to come along with that. It's exclusion is more of a symbol, to me, of this product being rushed to market.

Most importantly, I'm interested in having the latest code. Maybe it's the principle of it all, after spending $800 for the new TiVo, getting a new HD set for it to shine upon, and revamping my whole home AV setup around it.

The way I see it, it's one thing to be without TiVoToGo and MRV after "upgrading," (and yes, I understand TiVo is waiting for the CableCard people on those fronts) but to be without the latest code and the basic user features I've gotten used to the TiVo providing? That just doesn't sit well with me. I'll wait for the box to "catch up" with those features, maybe a few bugs will get squashed in the meantime, maybe the price of the unit (and HD TV sets in general) will come down a bit, maybe more HD content will start being available and then I'll take the plunge. I'm just not completely sold on the clarion call of High Definition yet, I suppose, and I'm not as much of a couch potato as I used to be. So I'm being more patient, and weighing all the compromises, before I spend money on any kind of AV "upgrade."


----------



## mercurial

Well, knowing a little about multiple product releases with similar code but multiple branches. If they cut a branch to do the S3 code before those features were added (or perhaps they were there but not stable so were turned off), I'd rather release it on that branch (to meet demands and TTM requirements) where I know it is stable. Then I can handle the code merge and QA requirements and get an update later. Personally, I'm going from D* to cable so my only choice would have been to stick with D* and pay a lot more to wire a new house with multiple coax runs or be stuck with a cable co DVR. I'm glad the S3 was out and available.


----------



## Alcatraz

cwoody222 said:


> Just realized and then read here to confirm that the Recently Deleted folder isn't even included yet
> 
> C'mon TiVo... how hard is that?!


Considering that this product was first announced a couple of years ago, they would've branched this product out long before Kidzone and the recently deleted folder were born, or at the very least "matured".

Let see......branch the software and work on it separately for this platform for a couple of years in order to release it, oh but while you're at it merge all the new functionality into the software along the way and make sure you don't delay the product release even further. Not bloody likely! 

I'm guessing they went with a working platform and will worry about merging back with an update sooner rather than later. Didn't the series2 dual tuner do the exact same thing just a few months ago and get updated shortly thereafter? They don't have to wait for approval from Cable Labs for this to work so I'm betting you should expect it to show up pretty soon.


----------



## Fofer

mercurial said:


> I'm glad the S3 was out and available.


Yeah, me too. I certainly don't begrudge TiVo for the decision. But it does give me, personally, a reason to pause on the purchase.


----------



## rtjones

keenanSR said:


> I suggest you take a look at the threads over at AVS, full of info including participation by DVDO themselves. There's a few different models, including the VP20, VP30 and the flagship, the VP50.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8623893#post8623893
> New DVDO iScan VP50 - AVS Forum


Thanks, keenanSR. I'll check it out.


----------



## MichaelK

Fofer said:


> Yeah, me too. I certainly don't begrudge TiVo for the decision. But it does give me, personally, a reason to pause on the purchase.


give it a couple months and they'll all be caught up. And maybe the price will come down some....


----------



## RichB

FYI,

The see this page links in the FAQ all give 404 errors.

- Rich


----------



## dturturro

Can the S3 record 2 OTA channels at the same time like the HR10-250?


----------



## bicker

Yes.


----------



## windracer

I might be smeeking here, but MZ, you might want to update the FAQ to reflect the fact that you no longer need to buy the S3 direct from tivo.com in order to qualify for the VIP Lifetime transfer.

And the current software version is 8.0.1b.


----------



## rickyjames

Newbie poster here, please bear with me...

I'm a diehard TiVo fan with two S2 units (one with DVD burner), analog only current subscription to Comcast (99 channels) and a older analog-only cable ready 35 inch SDTV. I'm making the upgrade to HDTV for Christmas. I'm currently planning on a TiVo S3 (transferring a lifetime membership) and a Samsung LN-S4696D HDTV unit (46 inch LCD with integrated digital tuner which makes it Digital Cable Ready (DCR) having a CableCard slot). 

I've read several places that an analog-only subscription such as mine usually has in-the-clear digital channels above Channel 99 and after checking the Comcast website for my area and the channels listed on my plan this seems to case for me. Obviously I've never seen any of these digital channels with either the S2 TiVos or my current SDTV. 

I've also read the following facts that make me want to avoid having to upgrade from my current analog Comcast subscription to a digital one if at all possible:

1. DCR HDTVs like the Samsung I'm planning to get will pick up in the clear digital channels without a Cablecard via direct connection to the coaxial cable, and that the resulting picture quality is SIGNIFICANTLY better than if the digital decoding is left to a cheap Comcast issued set top box (STB) which then feeds decoded video signals to the HDTV instead.

2. A TiVoS3 without any CableCards inserted will manually tune to, correctly decode, and allow manual time/channel recording of unencrypted in-the-clear digital channels. However, operation in this mode will result in no stored channel data, Season Passes, Wish Lists, etc. 

Questions:

1. Assuming my digital cable channels are indeed unencrypted, does this all mean that I can keep my Comcast analog subscription, not request any Cable Cards from Comcast or even call them to tell them I'm hooking up any of this gear, hook up the S3 and the DCR HDTV to my coax cable, hook up an OTA antenna, run the S3 channel search to load Channel List for the OTA and analog channels, set up Season Passes etc for the OTA HDTV and analog cable channels, then view the cable digital channels (including the HDTV ones) by punching in the correct channel number above 99 on the S3 controller while watching "Live TV" thru the S3, and manually set up channel/time recording on the S3 for the digital cable channels, including the cable HDTV channels? Any gotchas here anybody cares to point out as long as I'm willing to live without Season Passes and Channel List for the digital cable channels?

2. If all of this is true, what's inserting a CableCard into the S3 got to do with enabling Season Passes? The function of the CableCard as I understand it is to allow decryption to authorized users. If the digital signal is already in-the-clear, there's nothing for the CableCard to do, right? How come my initial "call to the TiVo mothership" with an S3 doesn't result in the download of a digital channel list for my zip code like it does for the S1 and S2 and their analog channel list? How come my weekly calls to Tivo for analog channel schedule info for my cable provider doesn't include similar schedule info for the digital channels right above them in the list?

3. It appears that there is an S3 menu toggle to define whether the S3 outputs 720p or 1080i as its HD signal, with the SD signal being 480p in either case. Am I correct in assuming that the S3 stores HD data in the same format as which it is originally broadcast, or does this menu toggle cause conversion to the selected format for a dissimilar HD broadcast before storage onto the hard drive? If the former, does this imply that you should always be aware of the original format the HD program you're about to watch via S3 playback and manually toggle this menu switch before viewing to get the s3 output to match the original input format for optimal video? Or does the S3 switch automatically between 720p and 1080i output to match the original input signal type?

Gonna be a great Christmas Day...


----------



## CrispyCritter

RickyJames,

Your plan depends completely on what Comcast is sending down the line in your particular location; something that can change at any moment on Comcast's whim. At the moment, I'm doing exactly what you're planning (analog + OTA). The S3 TiVo can detect 450+ "channels", but the only ones that I get both audio and video for are the 70 music channels. I get video for a dozen other channels, but no audio. The rest are presumably encrypted. People in other locations get more channels in the clear.

To answer your point 2, the mapping of internal digital channel to external station id is again entirely at Comcast's whim, and they don't publish it (and do change it). Thus there's no way for TiVo to reliably give a schedule. Search for QAM in this forum for more details.


----------



## 1283

1: Yes, you can record digital cable channels manually without CableCards.

2. CableCard maps physically channels to logical channels used by the program guide database. Without that mapping, TiVo does not give you the guide data. In my area, two CableCards cost me just $1.50/month. Personally, I wouldn't use TiVo without guide data.

3. Digital streams are recorded as is. Display format is converted at playback time.


----------



## pkscout

hmmm, looks like TiVo reorged their site. None of the links to anything on the TiVo site work anymore.


----------



## AZrob

Hiker, where/how did you buy the Warrentech warranties? I tried calling Warrantech themselves and they said to buy from a retailer...but wouldn't tell me which ones they are partnered with. 

I did see a quote for an RMV5750 warranty at electronicoutfitters.com but they didn't seem to know anything about it, even though they are selling it (!). The price, BTW, was $51.18, which seems pretty good. 

Also, these warranties are all described as "DOP" warranties --- can you tell me what that means? 

Thanks in advance,

Rob from AZ


----------



## hiker

rmayer99 said:


> Hiker, where/how did you buy the Warrentech warranties? I tried calling Warrantech themselves and they said to buy from a retailer...but wouldn't tell me which ones they are partnered with.
> 
> I did see a quote for an RMV5750 warranty at electronicoutfitters.com but they didn't seem to know anything about it, even though they are selling it (!). The price, BTW, was $51.18, which seems pretty good.
> 
> Also, these warranties are all described as "DOP" warranties --- can you tell me what that means?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Rob from AZ


PM sent.


----------



## STTF

c3 said:


> 1: Yes, you can record digital cable channels manually without CableCards.
> 
> 2. CableCard maps physically channels to logical channels used by the program guide database. Without that mapping, TiVo does not give you the guide data. In my area, two CableCards cost me just $1.50/month. Personally, I wouldn't use TiVo without guide data.
> 
> 3. Digital streams are recorded as is. Display format is converted at playback time.


Just wanted to say thanks, this helped me.


----------



## geodon005

Hiker. . . I am also interested in those warranties. . .could you PM me as well?


----------



## megazone

pkscout said:


> hmmm, looks like TiVo reorged their site. None of the links to anything on the TiVo site work anymore.


Yeah, annoying.

I'm back, miss me? I'll try to get the FAQ updated soon to fix that and some other stuff.


----------



## megazone

MichaelK said:


> everytime they spit out a new box this seems to happen (a few more recent features like one touch delete and kidzone in this care are missing)- at some point they branch and just work on the feature set in existance at that point. And usually a relatively quick update puts those things back in. It's been posted numerous times that that "even out" download is scheduled for November.


Exactly, it is just standard development. I've seen this many times, even for companies I've worked for. You have to branch the code to produce a new product and add the feature particular to that product. In the meantime the existing products get updates. Normally you ship your stable code, then work on merging the codebases again to equalize the features. That's where TiVo is now.

One caveat - I don't know where the 'November' thing came from, but TiVo specifically told me NOT to say November, that it would be 'later this year'. Obviously, since we're in December, it didn't come out in November.


----------



## megazone

windracer said:


> I might be smeeking here, but MZ, you might want to update the FAQ to reflect the fact that you no longer need to buy the S3 direct from tivo.com in order to qualify for the VIP Lifetime transfer.
> 
> And the current software version is 8.0.1b.


Yep. I've been kind of tied up for a bit, didn't login here for two months. I'm trying to catch up now.


----------



## JPShinn

On the Tivo website, the KidZone setup manual is included with the Series 3 manuals. Has it actually been activated?

Thx.
John


----------



## cramer

megazone said:


> Yep. I've been kind of tied up for a bit, didn't login here for two months. I'm trying to catch up now.


As of Wed 12/13/2006, it's up to 8.0.1*c*. I've had a S3 for 2 days, and it's loaded new software everyday.


----------



## pjb00

All the FAQ's and fact sheets I read mention that one can record two and watch one already recorded show at the same time from digital cable. This may be a stupid question, but does this also apply to shows recorded from analog cable? And can one watch a live analog show while recording one (or two) other shows simultaneously? Thanks for answering what seems a basic question!


----------



## Amnesia

pjb00 said:


> does this also apply to shows recorded from analog cable? And can one watch a live analog show while recording one (or two) other shows simultaneously?


Yes. And yes.

You can record two shows from any source while watching another show from any source.


----------



## pjb00

Thanks!


----------



## Spiff72

Amnesia said:


> Yes. And yes.
> 
> You can record two shows from any source while watching another show from any source.


If I may clarify, you can record two shows from any source while watching another show *that has been previously recorded* from any source.

There are only two active tuners available, so if you are watching *live TV*, you are occupying a tuner, leaving only one tuner to record something else.

This all assumes, of course, that you *only* have the Tivo S3 as a source. You can split the incoming cable and feed one side to the Tivo and the other side directly to your TV (if it has a tuner) or another external tuner, allowing you to watch *live TV* outside of Tivo while recording two shows on your Tivo.


----------



## Amnesia

Spiff72 said:


> If I may clarify, you can record two shows from any source while watching another show *that has been previously recorded* from any source.


Yes, that's what I meant.


----------



## evilhat

megazone said:


> *Does the S3 have all of the features found on the S2/S2DT?*
> Not quite. 8.0.1a is similar to the feature set found in 7.2. Features introduced in later S2 software updates, such as Recently Deleted, One-Touch Delete, KidZone, TiVoCast, etc, are scheduled to be added in a late 2006 release. Also, at this time, networking features such as Multi-Room Viewing, TiVoToGo, and TiVoToComeBack are not supported.


*How* late into 2006, exactly? 

I've also encountered some weirdness in terms of how the series 3 handles recording quality stuff. See my other thread (which I can't post yet because I'm new to the forum) entitled "Here's what my Series 2 can do that my Series 3 can't, and what I know to do about it" (Thread #332113)


----------



## smak

Just a note on the down arrow functionality that's on the HR10-250 and not the Series 3 to switch to the other tuner.

The "live TV" button does exactly the same thing. Maybe that's why they didn't include it, since it's redundant!

-smak-


----------



## megazone

evilhat said:


> *How* late into 2006, exactly?


Like January 2007 late, I think, at this point.

I'm thinking maybe timed with CES, which is the second week of January.

With the holidays here, I don't think we'll see a release this year. And if 8.1 was about the ship, I don't know why 8.0.1c would've been pushed.


----------



## sjmyst

I've seen the following (or something like it) in several places:

Why are network transfers disabled? Will they be enabled?
TiVo had to disable transfers to comply with Cable Labs CableCARD certification requirements. TiVo is investigating and hopes to enable network transfers in a future update.


This explains why an S3 can't send a recording to another box. But, I still don't understand why my S3 can't see my S2 in the other room and receive and play shows recorded on the S2? The recordings on the S2 shouldn't have to comply with Cable Labs certification (they weren't recorded using thier technology). 

Right???


----------



## bicker

The entire device, including how it works, is what is approved by CableLabs. Not individual aspects of a device.


----------



## PWJAX

I am looking into purchasing a HD DVR. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond WS-65909 HDTV. It uses Firewire for digital HD content. Otherwise I need to use component cables. Does the S3 output via firewire? I have noticed a considerable clarity difference between digital and analog input to the TV (it has a built in ATSC tuner). 

Any help our suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## windracer

There is no Firewire port on the S3. Does your display not have an HDMI port?


----------



## ashu

Apparently Not!
(review link, dated 2002, to that mitsu TV. 64 Firewire sources supported!

Talk about obsolescence in overkill mode!

WOW - over 5 grand and it isn't even really an HDTV (at least I see no mention of HD resolutions on that first page). Wait - now I see it does 480P and 1080i. All 720P material is shown as 480P.

Time for a new 80lb 50" LCD/Plasma, perchance?


----------



## wdave

I've searched the FAQs and I can't find where this info resides. Basically, I'm looking for a Series 2 Primer for a Series 1 owner. I have a S1 and a S3. I know there are all these cool features not yet enabled on my S3, and I'd like to read up on them to educate myself. The S3 FAQ lists them, but doesn't provide a link as to what they are. I can't find a S2 FAQ on this site. Many of the links in the OP in this thread are broken. And furthermore, for example, a search for "KidZone" on tivofaq.com provides no hits. I've run into multiple dead ends, it seems. A Tivo Glossary or TivoWikipedia would help.

So where do I find simple explanations of what Recently Deleted, One-Touch Delete, KidZone, TiVoCast, Multi-Room Viewing, TiVoToGo, and TiVoToComeBack are? (in detail if that info is available somewhere)

Thanks.


----------



## CrispyCritter

Easiest thing to do is just to skim the User Guides at TiVo .

Just pick the Dual Tuner model for instance, and look at the current service update guide and the home media features.


----------



## ChrisMc73

megazone said:


> Like January 2007 late, I think, at this point.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe timed with CES, which is the second week of January.
> 
> With the holidays here, I don't think we'll see a release this year. And if 8.1 was about the ship, I don't know why 8.0.1c would've been pushed.


Meagazone,

Do you know what the plans are with Multi-Room Viewing, TiVoToGo, and TiVoToComeBack that are not supported? Will these ever be? Are they just working out issues? Licenses? etc...

I'd really like to get these features one day. I'm banking they will be available one day while I own my S3.


----------



## Razorbak

megazone said:


> *What are the product highlights?*
> 
> *What are the main features of the Series3?*
> 
> *How does the Series3 compare to cable and satellite DVRs?*
> 
> *Is there an official TiVo Series3 FAQ?*
> 
> *What are the official specifications?*


Several of the links in the first post on this thread produce the following error message "404 errors: page not found". Can you please update these? Thanks.


----------



## sleepeeg3

Can I replace my cablebox with a S3? I have multiple wireless satellites boxes that are somehow linked to the Motorola DCT6200 set top box. I don't know if it's the cable card itself or some other broadcast. 'lil help!


----------



## almighty

I was reading my email from Tivo about the $199 lifetime transfer option for a new S3, and in the fine print, this appeared:



> Record from two basic cable channels, or one basic cable and one digital cable channel, at once. Does not support recording from two digital cable or satellite channels at once.


Yet the reviews and FAQ's seem to contradict that. So if I get an S3 with 2 cable cards, am I able to record 2 digital cable channels at once or not?


----------



## wdave

The email is incorrect. That comment applies to a Series 2. Looks like Tivo made a mistake creating the fine print for the email.


----------



## almighty

Ok, good! I was getting quite worried when I read that!


----------



## breuman

OK, S3 output is 1080i. What if you have 1080p LCD? Any workaround to progressive or just SOL?


----------



## mercurial

breuman said:


> OK, S3 output is 1080i. What if you have 1080p LCD? Any workaround to progressive or just SOL?


Well, since nothing is broadcast in 1080p, I don't think it would be a big issue. Your 1080p set should except the 1080i input and de-interlace it to display 1080p.


----------



## tgibbs

It's pretty unlikely that anybody will be broadcasting in 1080p anytime soon. In fact, some 1080p sets are not even capable of accepting a 1080p signal. So the key issue is that your set needs to be able to accept a 1080i signal and deinterlace it to 1080p.


----------



## ashu

Almost no current 1080p sets lack 1080p input capability. Some manufacturers DO limit the connector on which the capability is available, although most take it over component, HDMI (DVI) and VGA (D-SUB)


----------



## Heinrich

Why doesn't my series 3 show the name of the program being recorded OR the output format as the manual indicates? I only get a clock and LED dots


----------



## 1283

Heinrich said:


> Why doesn't my series 3 show the name of the program being recorded OR the output format as the manual indicates? I only get a clock and LED dots


If the TiVo is recording suggestions, the program names are not shown, just the LEDs. To see the output format, press the button below the display.


----------



## Heinrich

Yes - suggestions are not displayed - Tivo Online Scheduling does not seem to be either but I will test further

thanks


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## blastoff

It is great to have 2 tuners. And the input switch on the remote is a nice touch. I would like to be able to re-assign the aspect button to use the aspect codes for my TV, though.

The S3 is slow, or at least slower than my old S1. What I'm talking about is the movement thru the guide, for example. The movements down, or page downs, occur more slowly than my old S1. It's just a little bit, but when you upgrade, you expect things to get better.

And it's not just slower, but sometimes while using the guide I lose the audio, and sometimes the video freezes. It's like it doesn't have enough processing power or memory and takes it from the background task. But the S1 didn't do that.

I read one person said that the S3 was quiet, but again, not for me. Or at least, it's not any quieter than my S1. When the TV is off and I'm just reading, it's very obvious there is something running.


----------



## flar

I programmed the input button on the peanut to change the aspect modes of my TV. Since my Harmony remote already deals with the TV input for me I didn't need the input button on the peanut to change the TV input.

Now I can do just about anything I need to while watching TiVo with either my Harmony or the peanut - still deciding which layout I prefer...


----------



## Fofer

flar said:


> I programmed the input button on the peanut to change the aspect modes of my TV.


That's a great idea. I think I'll do the same.


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## dturturro

almighty said:


> I was reading my email from Tivo about the $199 lifetime transfer option for a new S3


Is this transfer option still available? My HR10-250 crapped out and I'm ready for a S3.


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## Fofer

Yeah, it's good till 3/31.

They say you're supposed to have _purchased_ the S3 by 1/31, but they're not checking.

EDIT: They initially offered this for standalones only, saying no to DirecTiVos (which your HR10-250 is.) Then allowed DirecTiVos to qualify, then they waffled back, refusing some folks. It appears that DirecTiVos do qualify again now (I was able to transfer one) -- but for now, I'd say it's a "your mileage may vary" situation. Especially since we're now after the 1/31 purchase deadline.


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## synch22

flar said:


> I programmed the input button on the peanut to change the aspect modes of my TV. Since my Harmony remote already deals with the TV input for me I didn't need the input button on the peanut to change the TV input.
> 
> Now I can do just about anything I need to while watching TiVo with either my Harmony or the peanut - still deciding which layout I prefer...


I just got the harmony 720 a month ago and was debating getting rid of it because I like the new peanut so much. But I think ill just keep it, its programmed up for the TIVO.


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## YupYup

Fofer said:


> Yeah, it's good till 3/31.


Just saw this post, surprized no one jumped on it earlier, I think that date is still 3/2, tomorrow! Not sure of their interpretation of "activation of the DVR is required by 3/2/2007". Does that mean before 3/2, or by the end of 3/2? and if so what timezone? If you are thinking of making the transfer, I'd do it today! I've transferred 3 (that's enough isn't it?  ), and I'm a happy camper!


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## ohab

i've been told that the s3 aspect ratio control is a linear stretch (i.e. heads in the center of the screen are distorted just as much as the sides of the screen) a couple of questions:

1) if your outputting at 1080 fixed, can you use the tv's aspect control (which is a non-linear stretch).

2) can you program your tivo remote to do this?

3) how many spare buttons on the "peanut" can you program to control other a/v devices?

4) do you think a non-linear stretch could be added in the future by way of software upgrade (i'm surprised they didn't think of this to begin with).

Thanks. I bought but haven't recieved my s3.


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## 1283

ohab said:


> i'm surprised they didn't think of this to begin with


I'm surprised that people spend thousands of dollars to watch distorted video.

1) yes
4) no, unless the hardware already has such mode


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## ashu

OAR or death!


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## Justin Thyme

If all your QAM stations of interest seem to be mapped to station 0, you may notice that you can only channel change to one of them. Three ways to deal with this. 

1) go to the guide and then jump to one of the 0 channels. If it doesn't change, this may mean one of the tuners is already on one of the 0 channels- and very unhelpfully switches you back to that. So you have to move that tuner off onto some other non zero station and then switch back to the desired 0 station.

2) You can learn what the real QAM frequencies are for your area on AVSforum.com. Even though these real qam frequencies for the "0" stations will not appear in the Tivo Scan list, you can directly change channels to them, and Tivo will get them. (Note that a dash may be enterred by the ->| key.)

3) You can request your cable company send correctly formed "PSIP" information, as required by FCC rules for locally broadcast stations.


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## bicker

What FCC regulation explicitly requires cable companies to provide PSIP?


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## Justin Thyme

Perhaps a google search of "fcc regulation psip" might be illuminating to you.


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## bicker

47CFR76.640. The regulation is limited to systems with activated channel capacity of 750 MHz or higher.


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## Justin Thyme

Which means if your cable companies has any significant offering of digital channels, then they are required to support PSIP. On a 750MHZ system, there would be only enough space above UHF max for 33 6MHZ digital channels.

The cableco's don't like this requirement because among other things PSIP carries guide data, and allows guide features independent of the cableco's.


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## IJustLikeTivo

megazone said:


> Both. There are NO network transfers at this time.


IS there any sign of this changing? I'm not really interested in Tivo to go but I'd really like to transfer podcasts and the like to the series 3 so I can watch. There's a ton of video available on the net but I'd like to watch it from my couch not my office chair.


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## busyba

All Most of the links on the OP appear to be 404.


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## KustomMerc

is there some place that shows me exactly how much time or space is left for recording?

I like to keep all my recordings until I delete them which makes me nervious about going over or getting into trouble with the software


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## ah30k

KustomMerc said:


> is there some place that shows me exactly how much time or space is left for recording?
> 
> I like to keep all my recordings until I delete them which makes me nervious about going over or getting into trouble with the software


No, this is one of the most hotly requested and debated features. The only workaround now is to use the 'recently deleted' folder as a rough guide for how much free space you have. Further discussion of this should probably be placed in an existing thread on 'Free Space Indicator' threads (search on the topic) rather than in this thread.


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## dturturro

I know this would be incredibly tedious but going into each recording you can choose look up more details and see the approximate disk usage and size.


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## lemketron

My solution to this is to just leave suggestions enabled. You can get an idea of how much space is "free" by looking to see how many suggestions are present. When you delete shows, suggestions "fill in" the free space. When there are none, that means you're losing requested shows anytime something new shows up. Of course, this isn't terribly accurage once you've watched and deleted a bunch of stuff, but will be once the TiVo has had a chance to record more suggestions...


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## cdp1276

Hey Megazone you should update the first post in this thread to the latest 8.3.1 software level running on the S3's...

What is the software version of the S3?
The S3 currently runs 8.0.1a.


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## dalesd

cdp1276 said:


> Hey Megazone you should update the first post in this thread to the latest 8.3.1 software level running on the S3's...
> 
> What is the software version of the S3?
> The S3 currently runs 8.0.1a.


Yes, please update the OP. 
Also I think the section on E-SATA is wrong. 
There's probably more.

I'm in the market for a S3, and having current info would be nice. It's either a S3 or a ComcasTivo.


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## dalesd

Megazone hasn't posted here since Dec '06. Unless an admin takes action, this FAQ will die a slow painful death.


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## megazone

I added a note to the first post in the thread. I've been too busy to keep up with all the different forums, etc. I kept meaning to check in here 'when I had time', and the next thing I knew over 6 months had passed.

I've been updating the primary copy of the FAQ, at TiVo Lovers periodically, and I just updated it to reflect the TiVo HD. There are a few more changes I'll probably make soon as well.


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## Zaph32

Does anyone know if T-W is shipping the M-Card?

I just got a Tivo HD and it would be nice to go with 4 cards instead of two, since they charge for every card.


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## patysc

Hi, I've been told that although you can't access pay per view through the remote with the Series 3, you can still call in and get it. Is that true?


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## Fofer

I think it depends on the cable provider, as well as what channel you're talking about. For example, with TimeWarner SoCal I think I can get certain PPV (like Boxing events) but I can't get stuff on channel 1 (On Demand.) I haven't tried it yet but I was told I could call TWC and order the event, and then that would authorize me to receive that channel during the appropriate time slot. So I could watch it (or record via TiVo.)


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## patysc

Thanks. I have Comcast in Chicago and I would ask them, but they don't seem to know anything about how the Series 3 works so I don't think I would get a straight answer.


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## bicker

I cannot get PPV through my TiVo Series 3 with Comcast in MA.


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## cherry ghost

patysc said:


> Thanks. I have Comcast in Chicago and I would ask them, but they don't seem to know anything about how the Series 3 works so I don't think I would get a straight answer.


you can get anything on channels 801, 802, 803, 844, 851, 852, 853, and 854 by ordering over the phone.


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## supie

Originally Posted by Fofer



> RE: One S3 TiVo, two TV's
> 
> I'm planning on having an HDTV in the living room, where the Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder will be. I suspect I'll use HDMI out, at 1080i.
> 
> But I also hope to connect my TV in the adjoining bedroom to the same S3 TiVo, using pre-exisiting S-Video cable. (I'm not sure what the max length is for Component cable, but the S-Video is already there and looks fine with my existing DTiVo and EDTV.)
> 
> That said, will this box be capable of outputting signal simultaneously to both of these TV's? Or will I need to toggle something before watching content on each?


I have done this with HDMI to a 60" Plazma and Progressive to a 40" Sony at the same time. (of Course you have to watch the same program on both TV's)


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## nekoashi

Is there a FAQ around on how to troubleshoot issues with TiVo desktop not seeing the DVR?


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## bkdtv

nekoashi said:


> Is there a FAQ around on how to troubleshoot issues with TiVo desktop not seeing the DVR?


Did you read the other sticky?

TivoHD & Series3 MRV/TTG/TTCB: FAQ + Discussion


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## TommyV

Have the video issues mentioned in this review of the TivoHD been resolved through software updates? I would be looking to use dual cable cards with Fios TV.


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## aidendavidovich

I have just activated my Series 3; it is connected to my local Time-Warner Cable which had provided satisfactory performance prior to this hook-up. Initially the setup goave me no problems and the unit received all the channels. One day following setup, while channels 2 thru 99 were received normally, channels 100 and above only have a gray screen with no image or instruction. I checked the cable reception for each of these channels and the reception is present and strong. Can you direct me to the forum or site where I can get some help?


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## bicker

In the end, you're really going to need to work this out, one-on-one, with your cable company.


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## Boss77

So I purchased the TivoHD for $299.99. My question is whether it is worth it to purchase the Tivo Series3 for $399 (assuming the $200 rebate effective until January 28). I read the Endgadet review. Anyone know if Series 3 is being discontinued? Can I purchase the better remote for the HD? Any thoughts appreciated


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## greg_burns

Boss77 said:


> So I purchased the TivoHD for $299.99. My question is whether it is worth it to purchase the Tivo Series3 for $399 (assuming the $200 rebate effective until January 28). I read the Endgadet review. Anyone know if Series 3 is being discontinued? Can I purchase the better remote for the HD? Any thoughts appreciated


You can buy the Glo Remote separately for the TivoHD.

Speculation is the S3 is being discontinued, but nobody knows for sure. It is getting hard to find. Somebody posted a link today with an online store that had them in stock.

If you get an S3, you need 2 s-cards. Where a TivoHD can use just 1 m-card. This should be taken into consideration if you cable provider offers m-cards and charges a lot for two s-cards.

The S3 is nice, but if you already got the TivoHD I would just stick with what you got.


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## Boss77

Thanks!



greg_burns said:


> You can buy the Glo Remote separately for the TivoHD.
> 
> Speculation is the S3 is being discontinued, but nobody knows for sure. It is getting hard to find. Somebody posted a link today with an online store that had them in stock.
> 
> If you get an S3, you need 2 s-cards. Where a TivoHD can use just 1 m-card. This should be taken into consideration if you cable provider offers m-cards and charges a lot for two s-cards.
> 
> The S3 is nice, but if you already got the TivoHD I would just stick with what you got.


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## Ready4TiVo

I recently upgraded to the Series3 HD and had two cable cards installed when I switched from Comcast to Verizon FiOs - everything works great, especially since I had the FAQ from here and Tivo.com to simplify things with the installer. They are not trained well or at all on the cable cards and by default don't like or trust the TiVo units; they prefer to work with their own DVRs which are flat-out more expensive per month. You simply need to be pro-active and provide them the info. (Also beware that when you install two cable cards Verizon charges you monthly as if you are running two televisions.)

That aside, my question is - and please tell me if I should re-post in a new thread - I would like to burn DVD-R's from the Tivo unit to a Panasonic burner/VHS combo, model DMR-ES30V. I am not looking to burn HD content, just older films and the occasional SD documentary etc. Prior to my HD upgrade I did this easily but the initial set-up was convoluted. This time, after reviewing the two manuals, I purchased a 12-ft. S-Video cable with RCA audio plugs to send content directly from one unit to the other. It almost worked: the image, even the TiVo "home" screen, appears in grainy black & white, both through the TV and on the DVD-R after recording a minute of program. It looks like 1970. Yes, I've triple-checked the connections. No, I have not yet swapped in a regular triple-RCA plug cable. Am I missing something? Should I forget the S-video option?


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## wmcbrine

Ready4TiVo said:


> and please tell me if I should re-post in a new thread


Yes. But I'll answer anyway...



> _I purchased a 12-ft. S-Video cable with RCA plugs for the audio to send content directly from one unit to the other. It almost worked: the image, even the TiVo "home" screen, appears in grainy black & white_


It could be a bad cable. S-video splits the signal into "luma" and "chroma"; if only the "luma" is connected, you get a black-and-white image. It could also be a bad port on the Tivo or DVD-R. But I'd just try another s-video cable before resorting to composite. (Check for bent pins, also.)

It shouldn't be grainy, either, and that's not a luma/chroma issue.


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## Ready4TiVo

OK thank you.


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## LoREvanescence

quick question. How can you change the channel by typing to a digital channel with out the need to type in the channel above or below it and scan up or down?

The local stations I get are 4-1, 9-1 and 25-1. I'm finding my self having to always for say, type 25 in and get nickelodeon and scan up one to get Fox 25 Boston.

Edit: Nevermind, I have been wondering this for some time, but didn't see the (-) above the to the end key.


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## jjp007

Ok so I have my brand new Tivo Hd and so far I love it! I am returning the cable company set top box asap. Now the only problem I am having is connecting my audio video equipment. I have an all in one DVR/VCR home theater system (toshiba) with speakers for better sound. Since the Tivo HD unit doesn't have "cable out" port I can't seem to connect it. Anyone have any ideas. 

I am connecting a Samsung LCD HD TV to the Tivo HD (via HDMI) now I want to add the home theater system. I have a PS3 connected but that shouldn't effect this set up as it's just connected to it's own HDMI port.


Thanks for any help!


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## bicker

jjp007 said:


> I have an all in one DVR/VCR home theater system (toshiba) with speakers for better sound. Since the Tivo HD unit doesn't have "cable out" port I can't seem to connect it. Anyone have any ideas.


I connect my TiVo S3 to my home theater system using the digital optical audio output on the TiVo connected to the digital optical audio input on the home theater system.


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## ah30k

jjp007 said:


> I have an all in one DVR/VCR home theater system (toshiba) with speakers for better sound.


What is this? Sounds like everything plus the kitchen sink. This unit is a VCR and a DVR and a surround sound system with speakers but used cable-in for input? Sorry, I am just a little confused as to what we are trying to give you advice on.


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## jjp007

bicker said:


> I connect my TiVo S3 to my home theater system using the digital optical audio output on the TiVo connected to the digital optical audio input on the home theater system.


thanks I will go buy one and try that.



ah30k said:


> What is this? Sounds like everything plus the kitchen sink. This unit is a VCR and a DVR and a surround sound system with speakers but used cable-in for input? Sorry, I am just a little confused as to what we are trying to give you advice on.


No sorry, it's a DVD (not R, my mistype) with a VCR home theater system. Very basic.


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## ciper

Would this FAQ be an appropriate location to answer the common question "Why are there no Tivo sound effects when watching a show in HD"

"The 'current' version of the FAQ lives at TiVoLovers.com"
Couldn't you copy and paste then adjust formating as needed? Seems strange to have a sticky thread that will not be maintained which directs users away from the site.


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## Coysher

Looking to purchase a TiVo for the first time, but not sure which box to get.....the S3 or HD. I can see the S3 has larger storage, THX and a better remote but is it worth $300 more?


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## dwit

Coysher said:


> Looking to purchase a TiVo for the first time, but not sure which box to get.....the S3 or HD. I can see the S3 has larger storage, THX and a better remote but is it worth $300 more?


For a novice, probably not.


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## richsadams

Coysher said:


> Looking to purchase a TiVo for the first time, but not sure which box to get.....the S3 or HD. I can see the S3 has larger storage, THX and a better remote but is it worth $300 more?


Welcome to the forum. :up:

Check out this thread for more details about TiVo HD's.

Check out this post for spec comparisons between the Series3 and the Tivo HD.

To get more recording space you can add an external drive via plug and play. Additional options for increasing recording capacity can be found on this thread.

We have a Series3 and a TiVo HD and both are very good. If I were to buy another it would probably be a TiVo HD based on price, the fact that they have stopped making the Series3 and that TiVo HD's appear to be better situated architecturally for the future IMHO.


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## Lori S

Is there a problem using a TIVO HDXL with Comcast and just 1 card?
It seems that people here have 2 cards but Comcast only gave me one.


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## windracer

You can use one card as long as it's a multi-stream card (M-Card). If Comcast is using S-Cards (single-stream) in your area, you'll need two of them or your TiVo will switch into single-tuner mode.


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## wizkidzulu

Can someone clarify some issues for me?
1) Can series 3 accept a m-card in tampa bay BHN area? I have 2 s-cards and want to switch to maximize usage. 
2) I also am having channel availability issues, digital and hd channels. I have to reset DVR daily to view these channels. Today, I can not receive the 700's, usually this happens around 5 pm daily. I believe this to be SDV issue. I called BHN and asked if they were using SDV and the csr said no. 
3) Is there a tuner adapter available in tampa bay BHN?


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## windracer

wizkidzulu said:


> Can someone clarify some issues for me?
> 1) Can series 3 accept a m-card in tampa bay BHN area? I have 2 s-cards and want to switch to maximize usage.


Is it a Series3 (with the front OLED screen)? If so, no, it will only accept 2 S-Cards. If it's a TiVoHD, you can use an M-Card. I just had Brighthouse swap out the two S-Cards in my THD for an M-Card last weekend, but I'm stuck with the two S-Cards in my S3.



wizkidzulu said:


> 2) I also am having channel availability issues, digital and hd channels. I have to reset DVR daily to view these channels. Today, I can not receive the 700's, usually this happens around 5 pm daily. I believe this to be SDV issue. I called BHN and asked if they were using SDV and the csr said no.


I'm actually having this problem today ... I've got a gray screen on a lot of the HD and digital channels, but not all. My THD has the same problem, but my S3 does not. I figured BHN was having some sort of issue today (I haven't called).



wizkidzulu said:


> 3) Is there a tuner adapter available in tampa bay BHN?


Yes, they have them, although I haven't attempted to get one. They are apparently free for the first year. Careful, though, I had one rep (over e-mail) tell me the TA _replaces_ the CableCARD, which I'm not sure is true.


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## wizkidzulu

thanks windracer for quick reply.

yes--series 3, so s-cards it will be.

Are you familiar with daily issues with BHN channels?


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## windracer

I don't have "daily" problems, but occasionally I will have issues like today where I can't tune to ch 120, but have no problem with ch 121. Or I can't tune to a bunch of the 700s HD channels, but can tune to 707 (ESPN) without issue. It's weird.


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## morac

windracer said:


> Is it a Series3 (with the front OLED screen)? If so, no, it will only accept 2 S-Cards. If it's a TiVoHD, you can use an M-Card. I just had Brighthouse swap out the two S-Cards in my THD for an M-Card last weekend, but I'm stuck with the two S-Cards in my S3.


Just to clarify in case someone reads this thread in the future since S-Cards are getting harder to find. The S3 can also take 2 M-Cards and the M-Cards will behave as S-Cards.


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## windracer

Thanks, I should have thought of that.


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## Dr_Diablo

whens the next software update gonna drop?

I'v about had it if the tivo won't operate as intended

sadly the month fee still has it be paid, for crappy service


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## richsadams

Dr_Diablo said:


> whens the next software update gonna drop?
> 
> I'v about had it if the tivo won't operate as intended
> 
> sadly the month fee still has it be paid, for crappy service


No crystal ball here, so no idea when the next update will be. They usually have a fall update, but who knows?

What's your Series3 doing or not doing? Ours is working fine. 

To answer your signature question...we have both. I pre-ordered the Premiere XL so have had it since day one. I still really like our Series3. So far I'm a bit disappointed in the Premiere XL. It is nice, a little more compact and has a few more bells and whistles but even though they've improved it since it was released the HD UI is still too slow for me so I run the SD menus. So for all intents it works the same as our Series3. I truly hope the Premieres will offer bigger, better, _faster_ options in the future, but for now I'd stick with your Series3...providing it's working as it should.


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## keenanSR

Only my guess, but given that the platform is over 4 years old, and the new Premier line has been released, I wouldn't expect too many more updates, maybe some small behind the scenes fixes, but certainly not anything new feature-wise. It is what it is, use it until it breaks.


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## windracer

Dr_Diablo said:


> whens the next software update gonna drop?


The latest software version for the Series3/TiVo HD boxes is 11.0h which came out a few weeks ago. It enabled USB keyboard (and thus support for the new Slide remote).


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## bicker

Uh, roll back a second... I can plug a keyboard into my S3 now?


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## windracer

Yep.


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## mercurial

Yeah, I've had a KVM and wireless keyboard in two of my A/V racks (for the 360, PS3, Wii) for ages and it was useless for the S3's and NOW when I'm about to switch back to DTV, they finally support it. What next? The ability to recognize a UPS I've asked for on every survey?


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## bicker

Super!


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## Darr247

I'm not especially surprised that the 'official' links in the first post in this thread all point to information no longer available on Tivo's site, since that post is over 4 years old.

But when deciding on my first tivo about a year ago (ended up with a Series2+LPS for $200), I made use of the comparison charts that appear to be no longer available there.

Did anyone happen to save a copy of those matrices?

I'm especially interested in the features of the various S3 models.
e.g. was the TCD648xxx the only model ever THX certified?


Thanks!


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## richsadams

Darr247 said:


> I'm not especially surprised that the 'official' links in the first post in this thread all point to information no longer available on Tivo's site, since that post is over 4 years old.
> 
> But when deciding on my first tivo about a year ago (ended up with a Series2+LPS for $200), I made use of the comparison charts that appear to be no longer available there.
> 
> Did anyone happen to save a copy of those matrices?
> 
> I'm especially interested in the features of the various S3 models.
> e.g. was the TCD648xxx the only model ever THX certified?
> 
> Thanks!


I don't have the comparison chart, but maybe this is what you're looking for...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/23/tivo-hd-vs-series3/

To answer your question, these three TiVo models were/are all THX Certified.

- TiVo Series3 (Original hi-def TiVo)
- TiVo HDXL
- TiVo Premiere XL (Series4)

You could also Check out this thread for more details about TiVo HD's:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5351201#post5351201

Check out this post for spec comparisons between the Series3 and the Tivo HD.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5353037#post5353037

This post has all of the details about the TiVo Premiere:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=444083

Hope that helps!


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## Fofer

Uh... huh?


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