# MOCA and POE Filter



## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

If you are using MOCA have you installed (or had someone else install) a POE filter?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

You need to install it, 
We did Dad's install with MoCA and his neighbors were getting leak through and some issues, we installed the POE filter and all was fine.

So while he was ok, he was affecting others.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

No need to install a filter on FiOS. Well at least with a normal FiOS setup where each dwelling has their own Optical Network Terminal.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I installed one mainly as a security precaution. The cheaper Actiontech MOCA adapters don't support encryption and I didn't want a savvy neighbor kid hacking my network because of a problem I could fix with a $4 filter. It's not quite as risky as running an open Wifi network, but if you're security conscience at all then why not pick one up?


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I installed one mainly as a security precaution. The cheaper Actiontech MOCA adapters don't support encryption and I didn't want a savvy neighbor kid hacking my network because of a problem I could fix with a $4 filter. It's not quite as risky as running an open Wifi network, but if you're security conscience at all then why not pick one up?


If you set a password with Actiontec's config app then it will encrypt things.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> No need to install a filter on FiOS. Well at least with a normal FiOS setup where each dwelling has their own Optical Network Terminal.


oops, never thought to mention that, but yes I was referring to a cable installation.


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

Can anyone recommend a site to purchase a poe filter. Tivo sells them but their shipping is as much as the filter. There must be somewhere else to buy this item. I am looking at ebay but want to know if their is somewhere else to buy this item.


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## Kerwin51580 (Sep 20, 2012)

I bought mine from ebay for $8.25 with free shipping. I had my MoCA network up and running about two weeks before I got the filter. I encrypted the connection like others have done. I was getting Tx/Rx rates of about 150 Mbps or so, when I installed the POE filter, my Tx/Rx rates shot up to 238 Mbps



dhoward said:


> Can anyone recommend a site to purchase a poe filter. Tivo sells them but their shipping is as much as the filter. There must be somewhere else to buy this item. I am looking at ebay but want to know if their is somewhere else to buy this item.


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

How do you encrypt when using the P4 as a bridge. I want to set this in conjunction with a mini. No adapter being used.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

There may well be a POE filter in the box on the street, but there is none at the drop of my house so AFAIK there is no POE filter but no easy way to tell for sure. I've had MoCA for years without any problems.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

geekmedic said:


> If you set a password with Actiontec's config app then it will encrypt things.


I could be wrong, but I think that only works with the more expensive adapter that has the config switch. The cheaper ones have no interface that I'm aware of.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

dhoward said:


> Can anyone recommend a site to purchase a poe filter. Tivo sells them but their shipping is as much as the filter. There must be somewhere else to buy this item. I am looking at ebay but want to know if their is somewhere else to buy this item.


Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

I ordered one off of ebay this morning.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I could be wrong, but I think that only works with the more expensive adapter that has the config switch. The cheaper ones have no interface that I'm aware of.


Didn't realize they add two. Sorry. Mine has the config switch. Didn't encrypt things because I was afraid it would slow things down and the TiVo wouldn't be compatible with it (when I ordered the mini and XL4 to replace my original premiere.)


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## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

where do I install Poe? I'm just moved into my new house. The cable guy wired my house 4 days ago. I asked the installer at the time if he knew about moca and he said no. cable enters my house from a Comcast box on the outside wall of my house. From the box a single cable goes through my wall and under my house where it branches off and feeds my four rooms. Does that mean I need to go under my house and locate the original cable originating from the Comcast box and place filter right before it begins to branching to my other rooms? Or might I have to open the Comcast box to install filter?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

leiff said:


> where do I install Poe? I'm just moved into my new house. The cable guy wired my house 4 days ago. I asked the installer at the time if he knew about moca and he said no. cable enters my house from a Comcast box on the outside wall of my house. From the box a single cable goes through my wall and under my house where it branches off and feeds my four rooms. Does that mean I need to go under my house and locate the original cable originating from the Comcast box and place filter right before it begins to branching to my other rooms? Or might I have to open the Comcast box to install filter?


Yes, you want the POE filter on the input side of the main splitter. That can be in the box or under the house if you're willing to get dirty.

coax to house ---> POE filter --> splitter to rooms.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

leiff said:


> where do I install Poe? I'm just moved into my new house. The cable guy wired my house 4 days ago. I asked the installer at the time if he knew about moca and he said no. cable enters my house from a Comcast box on the outside wall of my house. From the box a single cable goes through my wall and under my house where it branches off and feeds my four rooms. Does that mean I need to go under my house and locate the original cable originating from the Comcast box and place filter right before it begins to branching to my other rooms? Or might I have to open the Comcast box to install filter?


Point
Of
Entry

I would put it in the Comcast box that's on the outside wall of your house, assuming you can get into it. But yes, crawling under the house and installing it at the splitter input there would work too.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Or if you're in the northeast, walk into the basement, turn the lights on, and connect it to the cable splitter next to the breaker panel.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

Bigg said:


> Or if you're in the northeast, walk into the basement, turn the lights on, and connect it to the cable splitter next to the breaker panel.


That's what I did here in the Midwest :up:

Guess not everyone is so fortunate....


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Basements are very rare over here on the west coast. I've only known a few people in my life who've had them. Almost everyone I know who lives out east has one. Not sure why it's regional like that.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Basements are very rare over here on the west coast. I've only known a few people in my life who've had them. Almost everyone I know who lives out east has one. Not sure why it's regional like that.


Depends on the climate and what you're building on.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

I just had a POE installed by the cable company after reading this thread and another. Glad I called them cause they upgraded my modem to a docsis 3 

I had one Mcard installed for $3.95 which gives me Free HD channels of about 92% of my current package and gives me around 14 new Digital /HD channels including secondary Broadcast channels. If the Mcard has no issues 
I will add more to other boxes, after I upgrade my Hard drive in my TiVo with the card Paired and need it re-paired the tech said I should be able to swab card from one device without the need to pair it 

The Card install took 5 min total to pair without issue.


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## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

thanks for suggesting I place Poe in the Comcast box on the outside of my house instead of under house. Much easier. Bonus if as you say performance is also better this way. Comcast box opened up no prob. In box the single cable couples with another single cable and leaves box again as a single cable. Coupler inside box wouldn't turn from turning. Does coupler in box need to be unscrewed to remove or do I just get a wrench to turn harder?


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

leiff said:


> thanks for suggesting I place Poe in the Comcast box on the outside of my house instead of under house. Much easier. Bonus if as you say performance is also better this way. Comcast box opened up no prob. In box the single cable couples with another single cable and leaves box again as a single cable. Coupler inside box wouldn't turn from turning. Does coupler in box need to be unscrewed to remove or do I just get a wrench to turn harder?


It was probably tightened with a wrench, so you'll probably need a wrench to loosen it.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Loach said:


> It was probably tightened with a wrench, so you'll probably need a wrench to loosen it.


Yeah, sometimes you need two slipjaws pliers.


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

I do not have a MoCA filter installed yet, but am thinking of ordering one. I did turn on the MoCA encryption when I set up my TiVo 4-tuner and TiVo Mini. Is that just as sufficient or completely different than what a MoCA filter would do at my PoE to my house?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Does the encryption slow down the data throughput?


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Does the encryption slow down the data throughput?


How do I test for the speed on the TiVo? The only devices I have connected via MoCA are the 4-tuner TiVo (which is also ethernet) and the TiVo Mini. Everything else in my house is ethernet or wireless-N.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Loach said:


> Point
> Of
> Entry
> 
> I would put it in the Comcast box that's on the outside wall of your house, assuming you can get into it. But yes, crawling under the house and installing it at the splitter input there would work too.


Thx. I saw POE and instantly thought of Power Over Ethernet and wondered if you could send power over coax using a filter.


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## John Thomason (Mar 22, 2013)

I am confused about where to place the POE filter based upon conflicting information about potential interference with a cable modem. Should the POE filter go at the 2-way splitter or the 4-way splitter? Here is a diagram if my cable setup. 

---------Cable Modem (non moca)
/
2-way splitter
|
\---------4-Way Splitter
Room 1 (moca)
Room 2 (moca)
Room 3
Room 4


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

In your case I would put it on the output side of the 2-way splitter that goes toward the rooms. That way you block the MoCa signal from getting to your cable modem and the outside world all in one shot.


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

Where's the best place to buy one of these? Through TiVo, with shipping, it's like $18.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I bought one off eBay for $5 shipped.


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## Finalrinse (Jan 13, 2005)

I ordered this one, is this alright?
MoCA POE Extreme FILTER 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MoCA-POE-Extreme-FILTER-CABLE-TV-NEW-WHOLE-HOUSE-DVR-Total-/271175291190?pt=US_Signal_Amplifiers_Filters&hash=item3f234e9136


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I bought one off eBay for $5 shipped.


Thanks. I just went ahead and ordered this one. Hopefully does what it's supposed to do.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150680042501


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

John, it really doesn't matter. MoCA is fine with a cable modem, but keeping the signal captive to a small area is probably the best for the MoCA's sake.


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

I got my MoCA filter. Here's a diagram of my wiring in the house (the coax and ethernet). Am I supposed to connect this outside in-line at the junction highlighted in yellow? Thanks!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dmk1974 said:


> I got my MoCA filter. Here's a diagram of my wiring in the house (the coax and ethernet). Am I supposed to connect this outside in-line at the junction highlighted in yellow? Thanks!


You could put the POE filter in the yellow part of your diagram, but it would just as good to put the filter on the input of the first splitter, I would change splitters to the 2Ghz type as they are not much money and do a better job with Moca.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001X3MGFU/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or this one works well also http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JKT3VY/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

lessd said:


> You could put the POE filter in the yellow part of your diagram, but it would just as good to put the filter on the input of the first splitter, I would change splitters to the 2Ghz type as they are not much money and do a better job with Moca.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001X3MGFU/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Or this one works well also http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JKT3VY/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks. My splitter is in the wall and the extra length of the PoE filter made it tough to put there. I wound up installing it outside. Any way to check that it's doing what it should? I don't notice any speedtest drop or TV picture quality issues, so I'm assuming it's connected well.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dmk1974 said:


> Thanks. My splitter is in the wall and the extra length of the PoE filter made it tough to put there. I wound up installing it outside. Any way to check that it's doing what it should? I don't notice any speedtest drop or TV picture quality issues, so I'm assuming it's connected well.


Looks good to me, the only way I know to test the filter is to put it on the cable input of a TP-4 or Mini and see that the Moca connection can't be made, that is the way I tested my filter before mounting on my cable input.


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## NoVa (Feb 26, 2006)

I just installed a POE filter @ the patch panel between where the main Comcast cable feed enters into the splitter.

How do I see if there are any throughput effects?
How can I tell that if there are any signal leakage?
I have Comcast expanded basic package HD, will this "open" up more channels than I subscribed for?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

NoVa said:


> I just installed a POE filter @ the patch panel between where the main Comcast cable feed enters into the splitter.
> 
> How do I see if there are any throughput effects?
> How can I tell that if there are any signal leakage?
> I have Comcast expanded basic package HD, will this "open" up more channels than I subscribed for?


This filter is not a cable cheater, as to working, look at my post above (#40) as that the only way I know of testing a POE filter.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I could be wrong, but I think that only works with the more expensive adapter that has the config switch. The cheaper ones have no interface that I'm aware of.


FYI, the Actiontec MOCA adapters that Tivo sells for the best price I found, have the config switch. TiVo doesn't supply any information on it - wanting it to be plug and play and it is - but you can download full instructions from the Actiontec web site.

http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=251#soft

I didn't see a reason to change anything.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

Thanks to this thread, I purchased a POE filter on eBay and installed it today. 

The funny thing was that when I opened the box to install it, there was a POC filter connected to an open output on the splitter. It wasn't connected to anything. My first thought was, 'Damn, wasted $8.' However, it turned out to have stripped threads and appeared that someone previously tried to get it off and couldn't. So, no harm done.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I had bought a POE, but never installed it. Last time Comcast came out a few months ago, they installed their own POE. They told me they are doing that for all calls whether the customer has MoCa or not in preparation for supporting their "whole home" platform.

I saw no change with it installed as to without it. I have my MoCa devices set up with their own encryption. Quick fact, all MoCa is encrypted, it's just that non-configurable MoCa adapters (and TiVo) all use the same default encryption key.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.


We had Cox install one and then tag the line on the telephone pole so it would not be remove. Took some persuasion to have it done.


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## k2ue (May 9, 2002)

John Thomason said:


> I am confused about where to place the POE filter based upon conflicting information about potential interference with a cable modem. Should the POE filter go at the 2-way splitter or the 4-way splitter? Here is a diagram if my cable setup.
> 
> ---------Cable Modem (non moca)
> /
> ...


Ahead of the 4-way splitter would be optimal -- it will keep the MOCA signal out of your Cable Modem, which does not expect it to be present.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

CoxInPHX said:


> Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.


Good old (or new, depending on how you look at it) Cox in Las Vegas wouldn't give even one up, when I spotted them on a van rack, just before the TA requirement letter came. I was told that the orders were clear and he wouldn't dare defy them. They were for people who had Cox's Whole Home DVR ONLY. He didn't even know what they were, so he let me examine one and I told him what it was. I still couldn't have one.

After picking up six TAs and six self-install kits, there they were, in each self-install kit, identical item, identical frequency specs.

Since I don't use MOCA, I just left them out, while also ignoring the Cox illustration, and not using the splitter, either. The only part in the kit I used was the VERY nice RG6 coax cable. The TAs each came with a RG59 junk cable (you'd think Cisco would know better).

Here's what I don't understand: If all the splitters (including those in the self-install kits, and what I have in use) are rated for 5-1002MHz, why would MOCA pass through any of them? If it can, then I see a reason to put one POE filter at Point Of Entry, and maybe one on the Cable Modem, (even though it should have it's own pass/reject filter, built-in) just to be sure. If the MOCA signals from a neighbor can't pass into my home, due to the splitters, then is there ANY reason to use them at all? Or can MOCA still get through?

I'm well past the date the TAs needed to be installed now, and they still say they aren't doing anything, or receiving anything other than an "empty" channel map. I can disconnect the USB cable, and still get all my channels, even those that show up as H.264. I haven't yet tried taking one back out, just to see if the 903000MHz H.264 channels quit working. They are the channels that have been reported to be H.264, lost by some, who say they are in a non-TA-deployed market.

One thing I HAVE noticed, since installing the TAs, is my cable modem registering lots of correctable errors, on the downstreams. While the signal levels and SNR for each band haven't changed outside their normal fluctuation, I only used to see an occasional correctable error, here and there, over MONTHS of uptime. Now they start ticking up as soon as the modem has rebooted and bonded channel bands. I don't see a POE filter helping, unless the TAs are leaking something into the signal, and the CM is having to deal with it. Installing the TA's, minus additional splitters and POE filters, is the ONLY change I made to my cable infrastructure inside my home. Signal levels & SNR at each connected device are within ~1dB, or ~1 on the TiVo 0-100 strength scale (within the range they were at before the TAs went in, to be more specific). Yet, while I see less rapid fluctuation since the TAs went in, the actual recordings I've been watching are worse than ever.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> Here's what I don't understand: If all the splitters (including those in the self-install kits, and what I have in use) are rated for 5-1002MHz, why would MOCA pass through any of them? If it can, then I see a reason to put one POE filter at Point Of Entry, and maybe one on the Cable Modem, (even though it should have it's own pass/reject filter, built-in) just to be sure. If the MOCA signals from a neighbor can't pass into my home, due to the splitters, then is there ANY reason to use them at all? Or can MOCA still get through?
> 
> I'm well past the date the TAs needed to be installed now, and they still say they aren't doing anything, or receiving anything other than an "empty" channel map. I can disconnect the USB cable, and still get all my channels, even those that show up as H.264. I haven't yet tried taking one back out, just to see if the 903000MHz H.264 channels quit working. They are the channels that have been reported to be H.264, lost by some, who say they are in a non-TA-deployed market.
> ...


I think MoCa can run in several bands - some below 1000MHz.





> Supports both the high frequency MoCA D Band used in cable and Verizon FiOS, as well as the mid-range MoCA E Band for DirecTV homes
> http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=257


The ActionTec ECB2500C that I got from TiVo would not work on the 1000MHz splitter, but it does on the 1200MHz splitter.

http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=251

Notice that they have Cable (C) and Satellite (B) versions. I expect the difference is the bands MoCa is on. Obviously, they set them up not to interfere with the TV service.

If I can't get the third node to work in the very farthest part of the house that is the original mission I may send the ActionTec MoCa back to TiVo. I'm waiting for an 8-port splitter that should get here tomorrow. i'll use that try some RF terminators.

Oh, great. ActionTec just announced a MoCa/WiFi product to fix the very problem I'm working on: http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130626-909089.html


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

netringer said:


> I think MoCa can run in several bands - some below 1000MHz.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, the ANTRONIX GLF-1002B1 filters I received with the Self-Install kits have these specs: Reject Band: 1125-3000MHz, Pass Band: 5-1002MHz.

While I was aware of what you posted, thanks for the effort, in trying to help.

The way I see it, these filters should basically do the same as a 5-1002Mhz splitter. Then again, if that were the case, why would the kit contain a 5-1002MHz splitter and a POE filter, that is supposed to be placed on the output leg going to the TA? If they ASSUME you have MOCA and/or ASSUME you have a Cox Whole Home DVR, using MOCA, why would the splitter and POE filter ratings be what they are?

It's my understanding that if you use MOCA, each splitter, pass-through type device, and amp or attenuator, MUST include the MOCA frequencies in it's operation (Pass Band) specs. Am I wrong?

EDIT/ADD: It was always my understanding that the cable/satellite companies don't use the same frequency band(s) that Consumer Grade Retail MOCA networking does. I think it might have even been a requirement, of some sort. It's my understanding that the Cable/Satellite companies may do this so that their MOCA can pass-through existing splitters and network infrastructure (if it can already pass, then nothing needs to be changed). That's a scenario where I could see MOCA wreaking havoc on a consumer's other equipment, if not isolated. But, the POE filters I have received seem to serve only one purpose, keeping consumer MOCA out of THEIR equipment/infrastructure. Thus, since I use MOCA of no form whatsoever, I shouldn't technically/hypothetically need them at all.

The way I see it, the less unnecessary connection points, splitters, pass-thru devices, and pass/reject devices, the better. This means less potential signal drops, SNR effects, bad connections, bad devices, etc. (potential points of failure and/or ingress/egress).

Cox here has one hell of a frequency map on their 1GHz network. Cablecards operate at 73750MHz, but there are cable channels that operate as low as ~54MHz, with quite a few I watch at 69HMz (and they work POORLY). Then there's the H.264 channels that operate at 903MHz, which is above the Cable Modem downstream ranges. Before they started the H.264, ALL channels operated BELOW Cable Modem downstream frequencies.

It's like they just mishmash things together, without any thought of how it may affect the consumer. They need to get their mappings more "zoned". IMHO, too many channels are operating in wherever they could find a place, rather than create a healthy buffer zone between CM, CC, MOCA, and TV frequencies, and keep some consistency in it.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

netringer said:


> I think MoCa can run in several bands - some below 1000MHz.


It can (for example for FIOS users), but MoCa was designed to power it's way through splitters, though if there are a significant number of them, eventually the MoCa signal will degrade enough that it won't be able to get through. That's why it's suggested to use a POE filter at the "point of entry" to keep the signals in your home so your neighbors can't get on your network. Though changing the encryption key (if possible) works as well.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> Well, the ANTRONIX GLF-1002B1 filters I received with the Self-Install kits have these specs: Reject Band: 1125-3000MHz, Pass Band: 5-1002MHz.
> 
> While I was aware of what you posted, thanks for the effort, in trying to help.
> 
> ...


I don't get why they would supply that 5-1002Mhz splitter unless their MoCA uses frequencies below 1002MHz.

Oh. Are you saying that is the "edge" splitter and they have another with a higher bandpass for the interior network?

I'm saying that I couldn't get the ActionTec MoCA to work over the 02-1000MHz splitter, with the -1500MHz splitter it does.

Funny that there's no mention of this in manuals. I wonder how many mere mortal TiVo subs give up because MoCA nodes, gateways, and the TiVo won't connect.

You give me some more inspiration though. If I still have trouble when I go back to hack I'll try removing the PoE to see if that helps.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I suggest reading the following presentation on MoCa by the MoCa Alliance. Yes, it's a marketing presentation, but it has a lot of technical info in it.

http://www.mocalliance.org/CEDIA/presentations/MoCA_CEDIA_Presentation.pdf

Page 24 talks about bands. D is usually used when using MoCa with cable TV to prevent conflicting with the cable signal. A or B is used with satellite and C is used with FIOS.

Page 29 through 36 talk about POEs and setup and pages 17 and 18 talk about splitters. Really though if you are interested in how MoCa works you should read the whole thing.

My MoCa setup uses D with 1 Ghz splitters and works fine. Some people even have it working with 850 MHz splitters.

The thing about splitters is that they don't block all signals outside their rated frequency, they just have a high impedance for those signals, making it harder to get through. A strong signal or one that's designed to work over a high impedance line, like MoCa, can still make it through.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

netringer said:


> I don't get why they would supply that 5-1002Mhz splitter unless their MoCA uses frequencies below 1002MHz.
> 
> Oh. Are you saying that is the "edge" splitter and they have another with a higher bandpass for the interior network?
> 
> ...


If what you are asking is if the two legs of the splitter have different ratings, the answer is no. They are just plain old everyday splitters, with -3.5dB drop on each leg.


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## ShayL (Jul 18, 2007)

morac said:


> I suggest reading the following presentation on MoCa by the MoCa Alliance. Yes, it's a marketing presentation, but it has a lot of technical info in it.
> 
> http://www.mocalliance.org/CEDIA/presentations/MoCA_CEDIA_Presentation.pdf
> 
> ...


morac,

Good link and summary. FIOS uses both WAN and LAN MOCA connections. The C band should be for their WAN installs. Some of their installs use cat5. FIOS also uses LAN MOCA connection for their STBs.


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## stack (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi guys,

I am new to the world of Tivo and would appreciate any help I could get. I just moved to a new place that has the house basically wired with Cat5 that comes to a patch panel in the master bedroom closet. 

I just switched from DirecTV to Cox since I don't have a clear path. 

I ran into one problem when I tested all of the panels, the one in the living room downstairs where the main TV would go does not work. So I decided to put the main Tivo Box in the master bedroom and move the Mini Downstairs and use MoCa to get that one singnal since I can't use the network panel there.

So here is the setup I have now, can you please let me know where I would have to put the POE filter to make it all work. 

Main Patch panel area has the main cable line coming in. It then goes into a three way splitter. That splitter feeds the modem, the living room panel, and the master bedroom.

In the master bedroom the cable is coming from the wall going into the tuning adapter. Then I have another coax coming from the tuning adapter into the TiVo and of course the USB connected. 

I read through everything and I am getting mixed readings on where to put the POE so it doesn't effect the modem etc. 

I was thinking I should only have to put the POE on the branch of the main 3 way splitter to the one that is sending signal to the master bedroom. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for all your help.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Normally the POE is put right before the very first splitter coming into the house. It can be placed before any splitter in your house as long as all your MoCa devices are somewhere down the line of the legs of those splitters. Basically a POE blocks and reflects MoCa signals, so it needs to be placed such that it won't block the signals in your house. That's why placing it in front of the first splitter is easiest.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

The Cox Tuning Adapter instructions are questionable, as Cox shows putting a POE Filter in-front of the Tuning Adapter, That is probably not needed, but it certainly cannot hurt anything.

Cox is using the frequency spectrum all the way up to 950MHz for the H.264/MPEG-4 channels.
So when using the built in MoCA on the TiVo it is best to use a splitter before the Tuning Adapter, as shown in their documentation, The Cisco Tuning Adapter will not pass MoCA signals.

Cox - Cisco Tuning Adapter Installation

Cox - Motorola Tuning Adapter Installation


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

CoxInPHX said:


> Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.


Good to know I need to go get one from them


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## jevans14 (Feb 14, 2003)

I would like to install the POE filter at the outside cable point of entry but the trouble is I cannot figure out how to open the cable box (made by Comcast). Is there some sort of trick to opening this thing? Very hard plastic cover that no matter how hard I try to press on each side it refuses to open. Or is calling Comcast the only way to get it open? Thanks.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

CoxInPHX said:


> Cox is using the frequency spectrum all the way up to 950MHz for the H.264/MPEG-4 channels.


I'm showing 951Mhz for mine, plus the width, so I'd say up to ~960MHz, just to be safe.

I doubt Cox would include the MoCA filter, if they didn't feel it was necessary. They used to guard those things, as "for whole home Cox DVR users only", when I spotted one on a Cox truck. That was before the TA rollout, though.

The Cox TA install instructions in the self-install kits are assuming you have MoCA. Since I'm all Cat5e to my TiVos, no need for MoCA. I still have less problems using the splitter, than using the amplified pass-through method on the Cisco TAs. YMMV, of course. I'd prefer not using any more splitters than necessary.

I'm a bit confused on the one post starting off talking about Cat5e, then shifting right to asking where the MoCA filter goes...


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

jevans14 said:


> I would like to install the POE filter at the outside cable point of entry but the trouble is I cannot figure out how to open the cable box (made by Comcast). Is there some sort of trick to opening this thing? Very hard plastic cover that no matter how hard I try to press on each side it refuses to open. Or is calling Comcast the only way to get it open? Thanks.


Are you in an apartment, or multi-family (multiple cable bill) dwelling of any sort?

If so, it was probably (for a good reason) designed that way, and you should stay out.

If not, I'd want to see a picture of it, before advising.

But, since it says Comcast right on the box, it still may be there to keep you out (look for another box, to be sure you are looking in the right place). The phone call seems to be a good idea. I'd advise making sure that any "truck roll" doesn't involve a fee (specifically state you refuse to be charged). If they do want to charge, ask how to open it (and state your reason for opening it).

Post what you find out, if you don't get what you want/need.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

So, if I install a POE filter between Comcast and my very first splitter, as the Cable Modem is downstream from the POE filter, can the POE filter interfere with it?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

mm2margaret said:


> So, if I install a POE filter between Comcast and my very first splitter, as the Cable Modem is downstream from the POE filter, can the POE filter interfere with it?


Only if you have a cable modem that has MoCA capabilities, and you are using (or intend to use) said unknown capabilities as part of your MoCA network.

Older cable modems without a built-in PoE filter can benefit by having MoCA signals blocked.

Newer cable modems tend to have a filter built-in, due to the potential issues.

A small number newer cable modems have MoCA capabilities, and would need to not be blocked, if their MoCA is going to be used.

Some will put a PoE filter on the coax-in of the cable modem, if it is one without MoCA, without a built-in filter, or the internal filter fails to work, which can cause unreliable operation (or non-operation).

What cable modem do you have?


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> I installed one mainly as a security precaution. The cheaper Actiontech MOCA adapters don't support encryption and I didn't want a savvy neighbor kid hacking my network because of a problem I could fix with a $4 filter. It's not quite as risky as running an open Wifi network, but if you're security conscience at all then why not pick one up?


Wait what? I've used those Actiontec adapters and they do support encryption. That's kinda a MoCA standard.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

JWhites said:


> Wait what? I've used those Actiontec adapters and they do support encryption. That's kinda a MoCA standard.


The cheaper ones don't have a way to put the adapter in configuration mode as they lack the switch to do so, so it's not possible to change the encryption key on them. So while they do support encryption, it's not particularly secure since the encryption key is known.


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## ggharter (Oct 22, 2010)

CoxInPHX said:


> Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.


Comcast provide them free as well. In fact, when I had set-up my MoCA network, and they were out on a different issue, the tech noticed it, and installed it for free, and told me what he had done.


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## mojo_13 (Aug 29, 2013)

Using a Roamio OTA and Mini and setup MOCA with a couple of Actiontec routers, bought a 5pk of POE filters on ebay (same price as a 2 pk) and put one where my internet comes in the house. Couldn't get the Mini to see the Roamio and got to looking, found out that the amplifier I added to my antenna was making it not work, but a filter just after the antenna/amp and everything works great. Glad I got a multi pack so I could make this work.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

I have a question, but not sure if it has been discussed yet.

I have a Moca network, and it's working fine. The cable installer put a POE filter on the splitter in the box outside the house. But he also gave me an extra one to attach to my cable modem too. I did connect that, but really wondering if that one really necessary? 

Just curious.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Balzer said:


> I have a question, but not sure if it has been discussed yet.
> 
> I have a Moca network, and it's working fine. The cable installer put a POE filter on the splitter in the box outside the house. But he also gave me an extra one to attach to my cable modem too. I did connect that, but really wondering if that one really necessary?
> 
> ...


Moca can cause interference on a modem, especially being very close to it. Some modems have a built-in Moca filter, but it can't hurt to add your own.

I'm still trying to diagnose a problem where occasionally I started getting interference outside the MoCa frequencies on my cable line until I disconnect my MoCa bridge, effectively breaking the MoCa network. It happens more often in the summer (warmer) than in the winter (colder).


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