# Upgrading Roamio Plus--what am I doing wrong?



## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi, I'm attempting to upgrade the HDD on my new/refurb Roamio from Weaknees. Here is what I attempted:

1. replaced 1TB Green Drive with new 6TB WD Blue hoping to get to the guided setup menu. 
Result: endless loop of Green Screen of Death followed by a swift reboot after 5 secs
The "Almost there... Just a few minutes more." screen looked older, similar to the TiVo man on stage screen

2. re-installed original 1TB Green Drive, went through guided setup, several reboots, got to the Hydra and hated it. Rolled back to 

3. replaced 1TB Green with the 6TB Blue and got the endless loop of GSOD, but the "Almost There... Just a few minutes more." screen looks newer and more stylish.

I think after step 2 TiVo Rollback, the firmware in the TiVo was updated to newer, but the TiVo is still not wanting to format the 6TB Blue Drive.

Can I just use the MSFR tool to copy the 1TB to the 6TB directly? I'm not finding a procedure readily, maybe it is in one of the very long threads we have on upgrades

Thanks so much!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The most often issue is the drive is drawing too much power than the supply can provide. 

The recommended drive is the WD Red series (not pro series).


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## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks for quick answer ThAbt0!

based on that, I ordered this one just now:

*WD Red 8TB NAS Internal Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, 256 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD80EFAX*

looks like the Pro is the WD6003FFBX @ 7200 RPM's, so I avoided that one...

BTW, Software version of the Roamio is *20.7.4.RC42-848-6-848* for reference.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

I should add that 7200+ RPM drives would not work either.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

For a Roamio to perform a successful upgrade on a blank hard drive installed in it, the hard must not be larger than 3 TB. If you want to use a hard drive larger than 3 TB, you will need to perform the upgrade using MFSTools v3.2 or later.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Thom said:


> For a Roamio to perform a successful upgrade on a blank hard drive installed in it, the hard must not be larger than 3 TB. If you want to use a hard drive larger than 3 TB, you will need to perform the upgrade using MFSTools v3.2 or later.


This is incorrect. The Roamio will format up to the first 3TB, but to increase to the max, MSFR will expand it to 8TB. You do not need to use a secondary drive for the process.

MFSTools 3.2+ is limited to 4TB, so it will not expand much more.

You may be referring to the Premiere which needed to use a secondary drive to get to the max 8TB, but now MFSTools can expand to 8TB on Premieres.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

ThAbtO said:


> This is incorrect. The Roamio will format up to the first 3TB, but to increase to the max, MSFR will expand it to 8TB. You do not need to use a secondary drive for the process.
> 
> MFSTools 3.2+ is limited to 4TB, so it will not expand much more.
> 
> You may be referring to the Premiere which needed to use a secondary drive to get to the max 8TB, but now MFSTools can expand to 8TB on Premieres.


When it discovered by users that the Roamio would fully self-upgrade a blank hard drive installed internally, a lot of larger hard drives we're tried. The Roamio could only successfully (i.e., it would boot from the new drive) upgrade drives no larger than 3 TB, and it had to be connected to the internet to do so.

Are you saying this has changed?


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## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

I just had a look at the specs for the 6TB Blue Drive that is not working and the 8TB Red Drive that I ordered just now, and the Green 1TB that came with the Roamio:

Red WD80EFAX, 1.85A Peak Current, 8.8W Average Power Read/Write
Blue WD60EZRZ, 1.75A Peak Current, 5.8W Average Power Read/Write
Green WD10EURX, Peak Current (spec not provided), 5.3W Average Power Read/Write

From these specs, the Red 8TB is going the wrong direction if that is the problem. Is there a 6TB or greater drive that is known to work that is in production currently? looks like 5.3W is the number to stay below, correct?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Yes, since MFSR came out. There are no system partitions on the Roamio drive.

Premiere was the last Tivo with the system partitions, boot sectors on the drive.

I have upgraded my Roamio to 4TB, about 4 yrs ago, and it was the only drive used.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ravingfans said:


> I just had a look at the specs


Thank you for being wise enough to check the specs. I changed the 1TB drive in my laptop from 5400rpm to 7200rpm since the WD took less power than the Seagate. Even in a TiVo, the difference is a small percentage of overall power use.


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## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> Thank you for being wise enough to check the specs. I changed the 1TB drive in my laptop from 5400rpm to 7200rpm since the WD took less power than the Seagate. Even in a TiVo, the difference is a small percentage of overall power use.


Perhaps so, but as ThAbt0 pointed out the reason for the failure was power, then it is only logical to look at the current and/or power specs to see what the draw is.

I'm hoping I don't have to go the route of an external box to power the drive...

ThAbt0: do you have additional advice? You recommended the Red drive, but with higher current/power it seems to not solve that issue...

Thanks! Phil


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ravingfans said:


> I'm hoping I don't have to go the route of an external box to power the drive...
> Thanks! Phil


That would be a first. The first indication of an overworked Roamio is the MBT. I have four basic Roamio units. Three have 3TB drives. One is a red, two are a green. All have MBT under 40C. Since I don't have a Plus I can't make suggestions to improve cooling. For one of my units, this USB powered drive drops the MBT by 5C and is quite simple to "install":


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## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> That would be a first. The first indication of an overworked Roamio is the MBT. I have four basic Roamio units. Three have 3TB drives. One is a red, two are a green. All have MBT under 40C. Since I don't have a Plus I can't make suggestions to improve cooling. For one of my units, this USB powered drive drops the MBT by 5C and is quite simple to "install":
> View attachment 40459


so is the concern more about Power demand, as the HDD will draw more than the power supply can deliver or is the concern more about cooling the drive and the box?

I had interpreted ThAbt0's comments as being power demand/delivery as opposed to cooling.

If the power demand/delivery is adequate then I don't think the GSOD's would be occurring or else there is some other reason the 6TB red drive is not working.


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## Frank Hickman (Oct 15, 2018)

ravingfans said:


> Hi, I'm attempting to upgrade the HDD on my new/refurb Roamio from Weaknees. Here is what I attempted:
> 
> 1. replaced 1TB Green Drive with new 6TB WD Blue hoping to get to the guided setup menu.
> Result: endless loop of Green Screen of Death followed by a swift reboot after 5 secs
> ...


I have 2 Roamio Plus's, they both have 6 TB Seagate green 5400 rpm drives. They work fantastic. NO problems at all ever. 
Most any hard drive will work, but the 7200 rpm drives put out to much heat. You need to install the new drive, it will format, then remove the drive and use the mfsr tool (you can get it here in the forum) to expand it. Reinstall it into the Tivo go thru guided setup. and you have 6 TB. It's pretty easy. HOWEVER if you have the new HYDRA system it won't work,-(it does all the things you said) you need to down grade to the old system. That's pretty easy also. Those directions are here also. It does not long to do either of these things. Both of mine went right in.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

^^^ Listen to experience.


ravingfans said:


> so is the concern more about Power demand, as the HDD will draw more than the power supply can deliver or is the concern more about cooling the drive and the box?


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## Frank Hickman (Oct 15, 2018)

I have 2 Roamio Plus's, they both have 6 TB Seagate green 5400 rpm drives. They work fantastic. NO problems at all ever. 
Most any hard drive will work, but the 7200 rpm drives put out to much heat. You need to install the new drive, it will format, then remove the drive and use the mfsr tool (you can get it here in the forum) to expand it. Reinstall it into the Tivo go thru guided setup. and you have 6 TB. It's pretty easy. HOWEVER if you have the new HYDRA system it won't work,-(it does all the things you said) you need to down grade to the old system. That's pretty easy also. Those directions are here also. It does not long to do either of these things. Both of mine went right in.


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## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks Frank, I downgraded from Hydra, but have a continuous loop of Green Screen, and never reach the guided setup, so don't believe this drive is getting formatted.

There are no green WD 6TB drives on the market right now that I've been able to find. not sure if they are coming back or not. 

You are using the Seagate, which I thought had the PMR/Shingling problem that was not long term suitable for TiVo applications, correct? Reading the forums, it seemed that was going to result in a problem down the road, say 2-3 years after installation.


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## Frank Hickman (Oct 15, 2018)

Frank Hickman said:


> I have 2 Roamio Plus's, they both have 6 TB Seagate green 5400 rpm drives. They work fantastic. NO problems at all ever.
> Most any hard drive will work, but the 7200 rpm drives put out to much heat. You need to install the new drive, it will format, then remove the drive and use the mfsr tool (you can get it here in the forum) to expand it. Reinstall it into the Tivo go thru guided setup. and you have 6 TB. It's pretty easy. HOWEVER if you have the new HYDRA system it won't work,-(it does all the things you said) you need to down grade to the old system. That's pretty easy also. Those directions are here also. It does not long to do either of these things. Both of mine went right in.





JoeKustra said:


> ^^^ Listen to experience.


I got the Seagate 6TB 5400 rpm drives, they are new drives, I got them from E Bay. I paid about, $119. each for them. 
I said green because they have green labels on them, (sorry about that) YOU CAN NOT have anything on them. Right out of the box.
Put it in the Roamio, after it formated then I expanded it with the tool from the forum here. I have Roamio Plus's. Reintsalled them into the Tivo, 
Now I have over 6600 hours of sd recording. It really does work, I got all the needed info from here in the forum.
I did have to make sure the drives are totally empty. NO FORMAT at all then put it in the Tivo


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## ravingfans (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok, latest update:

1. I read Frank's comment on this thread, that the drive had to be blank, unformatted straight out of the box, so I put the 6TB on a linux machine and did a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb (which loads zeros into disk b which was my 6TB drive. *After trying this in the Roamio, it booted all the way to the guided setup screen! yay!*

2. After connecting this drive through a USB 3.0 to SATA adapter, I tried to run MFSR on Windows 7 and got errors, then moved the setup to a Windows 10 computer and it recognized the drive. when I attempted to reformat the drive, I received the below two errors.

















In case the pictures don't come through:

The first error is ReformatRoamioDrive (MFSR Error Message 0x00000013 Line 337)
the second error message is writefile (MFSR Error Message 0x00000013 Line 1071)

When plugging this drive into the tivo and going through guided setup, it reports the HD hours to be 210 HD Hours.

I must still be missing a step--thanks for all your help!


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

ravingfans said:


> Ok, latest update:
> 
> 1. I read Frank's comment on this thread, that the drive had to be blank, unformatted straight out of the box, so I put the 6TB on a linux machine and did a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb (which loads zeros into disk b which was my 6TB drive. *After trying this in the Roamio, it booted all the way to the guided setup screen! yay!*
> 
> ...


Weird. That error indicates that the drive is write protected. Haven't seen that one before.

It has to be a program or driver in Windows that's blocking write access since dd worked in Linux, but I don't what it could be.


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## net lander (Nov 11, 2018)

ravingfans said:


> .....
> In case the pictures don't come through:
> 
> The first error is ReformatRoamioDrive (MFSR Error Message 0x00000013 Line 337)
> ...


I have 8tb western digital white, I put the new drive into tivo box first, and then connect HD onto my windows 10 machine via usb. Started mfs reformatter as admin, and I also got error above, line 1071 first followed by line 337.

Any solution? What am I doing wrong?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

net lander said:


> I have 8tb western digital white, I put the new drive into tivo box first, and then connect HD onto my windows 10 machine via usb. Started mfs reformatter as admin, and I also got error above, line 1071 first followed by line 337.
> 
> Any solution? What am I doing wrong?


What is the exact drive model number of your 8TB?
What version MSFR did you use? You should use the last version, 1.0.0.4.
Did you try putting the drive back in the Tivo and see what results? In System Information...
If you get over 1200 HD hours, then its fine. You can then ignore the error messages.


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## net lander (Nov 11, 2018)

ThAbtO said:


> What is the exact drive model number of your 8TB?
> What version MSFR did you use? You should use the last version, 1.0.0.4.
> Did you try putting the drive back in the Tivo and see what results? In System Information...
> If you get over 1200 HD hours, then its fine. You can then ignore the error messages.


I have WD 8TB WD80EMAZ with S/N: 7SJNxxxx Tivo Software 20.7.4.xxx Yes, I use MSFR ver 1.0.0.4. In system Info, recording capacity is variable, up to 220 HD or 1511 SD hours; Free Disk Space is "Variable, up to 218 HD or 1509 SD hours.

Assuming 1TB for 500 hours, 8tb should the hours be 4,000 hours ?? on the above, it said only 1511 hours. So is my system setup correct for 8tb?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

net lander said:


> Assuming 1TB for 500 hours, 8tb should the hours be 4,000 hours ?? on the above, it said only 1511 hours. So is my system setup correct for 8tb?


This is incorrect. a 500GB drive only holds 75HD Hrs, 1TB = 150HD. I have a 4TB in my Roamio, over 600 HD.

Your drive may have some data/partitions occupying the space. You can wipe the drive and try again. That is, remove everything, even any partitions.... Then Pop it back in the Roamio, startup until it shows the country, pull plug, hook to PC and MSFR, pop back in Roamio to startup.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

net lander said:


> I have 8tb western digital white, I put the new drive into tivo box first, and then connect HD onto my windows 10 machine via usb. Started mfs reformatter as admin, and I also got error above, line 1071 first followed by line 337.
> 
> Any solution? What am I doing wrong?


That error code means that the drive is write protected. Haven't seen that before. Maybe your antivirus or some other program is holding the drive open and preventing MFSR from writing to it.


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## net lander (Nov 11, 2018)

ggieseke said:


> That error code means that the drive is write protected. Haven't seen that before. Maybe your antivirus or some other program is holding the drive open and preventing MFSR from writing to it.


Thank you. I've use a different machine to run mfsr, and it ran successfully.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

net lander said:


> Thank you. I've use a different machine to run mfsr, and it ran successfully.


Great! You should see roughly 1260 HD hours with an 8TB drive.


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