# Directv to Buy Tivo?



## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

http://wallstreetpit.com/31796-options-brief-tivo-inc-tivo
IMO this would be horrible for us. Directv is a horrible unfriendly company to its customers. I can see that kernel locked DOWN and transfer to PC DEAD.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

vurbano said:


> Directv is a horrible unfriendly company to its customers. I can see that kernel locked DOWN and transfer to PC DEAD.


The Tivo people who were empathetic with smart users, those users whose subset of visionaries developed (hacked, with Tivo's benign neglect) all the features we value in today's DVR's, those Tivo people are long gone.

Sure, DirecTV is "unfriendly" to its customers," but Tivo is now indifferent to them. Effectively the same.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Are we really speculating about speculation?


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

vurbano said:


> http://wallstreetpit.com/31796-options-brief-tivo-inc-tivo
> IMO this would be horrible for us. Directv is a horrible unfriendly company to its customers. I can see that kernel locked DOWN and transfer to PC DEAD.


They would loose more customers to the competition so fast it would make their head spin!


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

I think Directv's motivation would be to end Tivo and thus making the cable experience absolutely stink for everyone driving more subs to Directv.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Joe3 said:


> They would loose more customers to the competition so fast it would make their head spin!


What competition? There isn't anyplace for TiVo owners to go that would be better than even a DirecTV-owned TiVo.


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## BEaggie08 (Aug 17, 2009)

If D* buys and then destroys TiVo, I may have to watch all TV from the internet...maybe get a Boxee or something like that. No way I go back to D*, and cable co DVRs are so unreliable that it is maddening to have one.

Lets hope it doesn't come to it...


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Good grief, how many iterations of "Company X is going to buy TiVo" have we had over the years? I've lost count.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Yeah I would go full win 7 media center with htpcs at every tv if directv bought and did away with Tivo or made it exclusive.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah I would go full win 7 media center with htpcs at every tv if directv bought and did away with Tivo or made it exclusive.


Ditto.

I have my HTPC all spec'ed out, but can't justify building it given that I already own 4 tivos.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

vurbano said:


> http://wallstreetpit.com/31796-options-brief-tivo-inc-tivo
> IMO this would be horrible for us. Directv is a horrible unfriendly company to its customers. I can see that kernel locked DOWN and transfer to PC DEAD.


this is just some online broker and worse he talks of how 'some customer' would profit if TiVo stock rose higher. I think my grain of salt on this one is weighing about a ton so far. Also screwing up TiVo standalone DVRs would really have at best a minor impact on cable.

That said - TiVo has that nice lawsuit against DISH that DirectTV would likely very much enjoy. Add in the replay patents and DirecTTV would have a solid patent portfolio.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> this is just some online broker and worse he talks of how 'some customer' would profit if TiVo stock rose higher. I think my grain of salt on this one is weighing about a ton so far. Also screwing up TiVo standalone DVRs would really have at best a minor impact on cable.
> 
> That said - TiVo has that nice lawsuit against DISH that DirectTV would likely very much enjoy. Add in the replay patents and DirecTTV would have a solid patent portfolio.


That lawsuit is not going to well for Tivo right now


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## Fireaxe (Apr 26, 2002)

Several years ago, just after DirecTV changed ownership, I received a post card sent to TiVo users that said something like, "Do go away, we're going to develop a new TiVo very soon" 

Every year, rumors of new DirecTV TiVos float around. Nothing happens.

I dropped DirecTV after over a decade (I go back to the old DSS days). The problem is that Cable providers don't allow TiVo owners to get things like Major League Baseball extra innings (brilliant eh?) So new cable TiVos are great, but limited.

"Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you"


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

vurbano said:


> That lawsuit is not going to well for Tivo right now


Yeah - they have only collected hundreds of millions of dollars so far and perhaps, perhaps an En Banc hearing might say DISH does not have to turn off the DVRs in question without a larger hearing on if they are really colorably different or not. It is just going so poorly for TiVo


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> It is just going so poorly for TiVo


time is not tivo's friend.


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## JTYoung1 (Aug 13, 2006)

Joe3 said:


> They would loose more customers to the competition so fast it would make their head spin!


To what company, Dish or that piece of crap the cable company calls a DVR?

If DirecTV were to purchase TiVo they might have even more incentive to keep the patent lawsuit going. What better way to really stick it to the competition than to keep their competing product tied up in court?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

DirecTV has no incentive whatsoever to buy TiVo.


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

stevel said:


> DirecTV has no incentive whatsoever to buy TiVo.


What was their incentive to buy Replay?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

HazelW said:


> What was their incentive to buy Replay?


they wanted the replay patents to keep tivo from sueing them.


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

HiDefGator said:


> they wanted the replay patents to keep tivo from sueing them.


But they had an agreement with TiVo not to sue each other.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

HazelW said:


> But they had an agreement with TiVo not to sue each other.


it didn't cover the new HR line that Directv was building. Once they dumped Tivo they needed the patent protection. Patents were all they got from the replay buy.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HazelW said:


> But they had an agreement with TiVo not to sue each other.


not when they bought replay. the new agreement came after that. Also they bought replay for next to nothing.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> time is not tivo's friend.


Time is no one's friend - what is the point you are making?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Time is no one's friend - what is the point you are making?


The case may be going well for Tivo but if it gets dragged out for another year or two by the time they win it won't matter much.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

You keep saying that, but many of us still disagree. This is not the sum total of TiVo's business and their newer directions, if they pan out, won't have any dependence on this at all.

Based on RCN, international, Insignia, tru2way and DirecTV, I would say that time is becoming more and more of a don't care condition than a problem.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I'll believe it when I see it in a quarterly report. Until then all those other things combined don't generate squat today in terms of revenue or subscribers. And I'm not even sure why you would mention RCN. They are too small to have any meaningful impact in the next 3 years.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Since I've been on this forum, TiVo has changed hands about 30 times if rumors were true. Anyway, it seems the current ownership has been pretty intent with hanging onto their company. That could always change and if so, I'm sure there are plenty of corporations out there willing to snatch them up. In the wrong hands, it would certainly be the end of TiVo. Unfortunately, the future does not look bright with the interoperability issues (can you say SDV). TiVo may be in for a world of hurt if the FCC doesn't come through with something to address third party compatibility soon.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

CraigHB said:


> ...Unfortunately, the future does not look bright with the interoperability issues (can you say SDV). TiVo may be in for a world of hurt if the FCC doesn't come through with something to address third party compatibility soon.


Meh. There was considerable FUD when SDV was first introduced, and as an early adopter of the Brighthouse STA1520 here in Central Florida, I certainly had my doubts as well. Within a month or two, new firmware was delivered to the tuning adapter, and it worked well for as long as I kept the digital cable service. I've since dropped that service, but I can't say that SDV is a major hurdle anymore. Maybe there are other issues with Motorola's TA, or support of TA's from other MSOs, but SDV isn't a showstopper...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

CraigHB said:


> Since I've been on this forum, TiVo has changed hands about 30 times if rumors were true. Anyway, it seems the current ownership has been pretty intent with hanging onto their company.


At least until the first time that the rumor isn't false.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

I think the whole DirecTV may buy TiVo is a bunch bull-hockey rumor started by TiVo itself. It makes no sense for DirecTV to buy TiVo. DirecTV bought Replay TV years ago, most likely for its software, in order to address the problems with the horrible DirecTV DVR product they had at the time, and my still have. Furthermore, DirecTV has a written agreement from TiVo that TiVo will NOT sue DirecTV for any infringements of TiVo patents. This was a condition for DirecTV to agree to develop, along with TiVo the forthcoming new DirecTiVo product.

IMHO, this was just a rumor by TiVo to scare Dish Network or Echostar (the companies TiVo continues to fight in court) into buying TiVo itself, before competitor DirecTV does. Considering the major set-backs (this can still end very well for TiVo) regarding the granting of the En banc review and the PTO invalidating key TiVo patents (yes, the PTO may reverse itself yet again after a further review) that caused a HUGE drop in TiVo shares, it certainly makes sense for TiVo to start such a rumor as the Board must be beside itself with the huge loss of value they hold in TiVo stock, and some sort of a purchase or merger with Dish/Echostar would leave the rabble stock holders with not much, but the top execs and board members would recoup at least some, nor matter how little, of their current losses.

Getting out now and cutting even some minor loss would certainly seem appealing to board members who don't feel like waiting around for a long time to let the case against Dish/Echostar play out. They have already been waiting for YEARS to reap the benefits and Wall Street and US investors are not patient.

TiVo would gladly allow a buyer, for the right price (I have no doubt they have tried to get DirecTV interested in buying), but at this stage of the lawsuit, DirecTV and Dish/Echostar have no compelling reason to waste its money buying TiVo. They have absolutely no need for TiVo. Charlie Ergan has always said he is waiting for the lawsuits to play out and come to some kind of end game before he decides what to do (as in, if TiVo come out on top, then he may be willing or have to spend big $$ to be a partner with or buy some interest in TiVO, perhaps a seat on the board or the whole company as part of FRIENDLY buyout) Certainly every company has it mouthpieces in the business press, and this is how false rumors get lots of press coverage.

Businesses are not interested in buying a company that continues to bleed customers and have produced such an underwhelming new product as the Premier (Series 4), when their own in-house cable or sat superior or inferior, but sufficient and cheaper DVR products do the job, even with TiVo features lacking.

I don't think we'll see any development until the results of the En banc, unless the top people at TiVo are willing to sell cheap to Ergan, but view it as walking away with some recoup of the stock's current value and not wait for it to get even lower, but for now, things are going Ergan's way, and he won't buy until he has to.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Series3Sub said:


> I think the whole DirecTV may buy TiVo is a bunch bull-hockey rumor started by TiVo itself. It makes no sense for DirecTV to buy TiVo. DirecTV bought Replay TV years ago, most likely for its software, in order to address the problems with the horrible DirecTV DVR product they had at the time, and my still have.


 no - they bought for the patents that Replay had since at the time DirectTV had no agreement with TiVo on anything.


> Furthermore, DirecTV has a written agreement from TiVo that TiVo will NOT sue DirecTV for any infringements of TiVo patents. This was a condition for DirecTV to agree to develop, along with TiVo the forthcoming new DirecTiVo product.


 we have no idea what agreement they signed for development on the new box but TiVo was not likely to sue DirectTV anyhow because of the patents from replayTV. Of course now it is very unlikely TiVo would sue DirecTTV since they are business partners with current mutual benefit.


> IMHO, this was just a rumor by TiVo to scare Dish Network or Echostar (the companies TiVo continues to fight in court) into buying TiVo itself, before competitor DirecTV does.


 DISH is a company very unlikely to get scared about anything and they likely do know exactly what is in the agreement between directTV and TiVo and whether any buyout talks are really happening. DISH top management has been in the business for decades.

stopped reading your DISH biased fluff at this point - TiVo sits on a pile of cash and no debt - they have no need for a buyout and their board has never reacted to the short term on anything (cause otherwise they would have bailed years ago )


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ..... Of course now it is very unlikely TiVo would sue DirecTTV since they are business partners with current mutual benefit. .....


Not so sure I agree with the phrase, "Current mutual benefit." Ahem, at least it does not seem to be doing so well today. Unless taking 2+ years for a new DirecTiVo is a _current mutual benefit_.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> no - they bought for the patents that Replay had since at the time DirectTV had no agreement with TiVo on anything.


Not true. TiVo and DirecTV still had an on-going agreement for support of the existing DTV TiVo equipment. That was going to expire soon. DTV may have purchased the ReplayTV assets to bolster their bargaining position but nothing I've seen suggests that their patents amount to much.



> we have no idea what agreement they signed for development on the new box but TiVo was not likely to sue DirectTV anyhow because of the patents from replayTV.


Again, not true. A redacted copy of TiVo's agreement with DTV has been included in TiVo's SEC filings when it has been updated. They've had one main agreement that has been repeatedly revised and amended over the years. That agreement has included a mutual agreement not to sue over patents from the start.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

nrc said:


> . DTV may have purchased the ReplayTV assets to bolster their bargaining position but nothing I've seen suggests that their patents amount to much.


Can you think of any other reason DirecTV bought ReplayTV?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

nrc said:


> Not true. TiVo and DirecTV still had an on-going agreement for support of the existing DTV TiVo equipment. That was going to expire soon. DTV may have purchased the ReplayTV assets to bolster their bargaining position but nothing I've seen suggests that their patents amount to much.


well then amend my statement to one of "bought replay patents so if TiVo and DirecTV ended agreements then TiVo would find it hard to sue DirecTV because of the replay patents"

the logic is basically the same and still it is nothing like Series3Sub claimed. I did not think the support agreement included any part about not suing but NRC seems to have looked up more of it than I have


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bigpuma said:


> Can you think of any other reason DirecTV bought ReplayTV?


No. I imagine it was a bargaining chip, I'm just not sure that they got much value from it.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

nrc said:


> No. I imagine it was a bargaining chip, I'm just not sure that they got much value from it.


Tivo has never sued them over the entire HR2x line of DVR's. And the new deal they did sign is pretty questionable for Tivo. Seems like maybe Directv got quite a bit of value from it.


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