# New TiVo rumors?



## ghiggz (Jan 27, 2013)

Hey all, I'm getting ready to ditch my Comcast HD DVR for a TiVo, but before I do, I wanted to check and make sure now is a good time to buy. Has anyone heard any even remotely credible leaks about new TiVo models on the horizon? How far into the product cycle are we exactly? Will we see the equivalent of a series 5 TiVO in 2013?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I would imagine we will see a XL6 with 6 tuners that will replace the XL4. This makes much more sense considering they are supposed to be releasing the TiVo Mini to support streaming live tv from the main TiVo. Whether or not the new box will be a new gen box or not is unknown. I think the Premiere platform is here to stay for a while but they could introduce beefier hardware in a new box. Of course all this is speculation as no one knows but TiVo at this point.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

One wonders if they will add support for larger and or AF hard drives.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

An extender called the Tivo Mini coming as early as March. Requires a 4-tuner Tivo. It streams recordings and can hijack a tuner from the DVR to watch live TV on it. 

We're 3 years into the Premiere lifespan. We're getting closer to a new generation, but we can't really peg a timeframe yet.

There are talks about a 6-tuner model. We don't know if this will be part of the Premiere lineup or a new "Series 5" lineup. But the running theory is that the release would likely be in the fall in either case. Six tuners sounds like a lot, but it makes more sense if you were to use it in conjunction with a Mini or two.

An updated bluetooth slide remote with keyboard coming at some point.

Don't know if you've been keeping up with the current accessories, but there's also the Tivo Stream, which lets you stream recordings (and pseudo-live TV) to iDevices, with android support coming someday (again no timeframe). It streams content only within the home. But if the recording is not copy protected, it can be copied to the device as well, so you can watch it when on the move.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

OK, I'll start one! 

TiVo Premiere Deluxe coming by Christmas 2014.

It will have 6 tuners, digital cable and OTA compatible with tuning adapter capability built in.
Wireless and MOCA connections built in.
Base model will be 2TB, with 3 & 4 TB models to be introduced following.
Price TBD.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

If the current line is the Tivo Premiere, would not the next gen lineup be.....


The Tivo Encore?


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

ghiggz said:


> Hey all, I'm getting ready to ditch my Comcast HD DVR for a TiVo, but before I do, I wanted to check and make sure now is a good time to buy. Has anyone heard any even remotely credible leaks about new TiVo models on the horizon? How far into the product cycle are we exactly? Will we see the equivalent of a series 5 TiVO in 2013?


If you are considering TiVo, just buy it. DO NOT wait for ANYTHING to come out. TiVo development is MINDNUMBINGLY SLOOOOOOOOW. Anything you hear that is "coming" is a LOOOOOOOOOOOng ways off. The XL6 is coming, and so is the Mini, but also is the Zombie Apocalypse.

Feel free to think I am joking, but you'll see for yourself.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> An extender called the Tivo Mini coming as early as March. Requires a 4-tuner Tivo. It streams recordings and can hijack a tuner from the DVR to watch live TV on it.
> 
> We're 3 years into the Premiere lifespan. We're getting closer to a new generation, but we can't really peg a timeframe yet.
> 
> ...


"Fall" when? Surely you mean Fall 2017.......


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Well as long as we are going to start (make up?) rumors I have one: 

FCC is going to grow a pair and mandate universal software solution for all pay TV providers. 

Then TiVo is going to release their Series 5 solution which breaks the traditional DVR into 3 parts, a central control unit, storage, and tuners. You buy the central control unit, what ever size storage you want, and what ever tuners you want, they have 3 & 6 tuner, OTA, Cable, IP, Dish, & Direct units available and your can mix and match them and the central control unit can record up to 6 channels at once. 

The central control unit can stream content to any screen you want via a mini for TVs and software for all phones, tablets, and computers and can stream to 6 devices at once. You can also fully control the central control unit and access "live" TV on any tuners from the minis and the phone/tablet/computer software. 

Everything is going to be available this fall.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

atmuscarella said:


> Well as long as we are going to start (make up?) rumors I have one:
> 
> FCC is going to grow a pair and mandate universal software solution for all pay TV providers.
> 
> ...


This is just as realistic as the TiVo Mini being released March 2013.

TiVo should rename the company to "Fantasy Island".


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

NotNowChief said:


> This is just as realistic as the TiVo Mini being released March 2013.
> 
> TiVo should rename the company to "Fantasy Island".


Threadcrap much?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

The S3 OLED supports M Cards just fine....I used them in mine....you just have to use two of them....


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Bierboy said:


> Threadcrap much?


In exact proportion to my disappointment in this company to deliver fully-functional products. It's just unbelieveable.


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## klj (Feb 26, 2010)

NotNowChief said:


> TiVo should rename the company to "Fantasy Island".


it's been a cold, rainy miserable day here. for some reason this made me crack up.. thanks!!


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

klj said:


> it's been a cold, rainy miserable day here. for some reason this made me crack up.. thanks!!


No, they should rename it SONY...you know, as in "Soon Only Not Yet!" OH, I heard than name has been taken.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> An extender called the Tivo Mini coming as early as March. Requires a 4-tuner Tivo.


Isn't the correct way to state it that at *first* it will require a 4 tuner Tivo Premiere?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

mattack said:


> Isn't the correct way to state it that at *first* it will require a 4 tuner Tivo Premiere?


Yeah, "requires a 4-tuner Tivo indefinitely", if you want to get specific, since heck knows when the necessary update will finally make it to product.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

NotNowChief said:


> In exact proportion to my disappointment in this company to deliver fully-functional products. It's just unbelieveable.


Tivo Premieres are fully functional DVRs, they're just not the 'one box' that their spinmeisters promised 3 years ago.

We all agree that the Mini is way behind schedule but as Zatz pointed out this is more political than technical, the tuner allocation issue notwithstanding.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

slowbiscuit said:


> Tivo Premieres are fully functional DVRs, they're just not the 'one box' that their spinmeisters promised 3 years ago.
> 
> We all agree that the Mini is way behind schedule but as Zatz pointed out this is more political than technical, the tuner allocation issue notwithstanding.


The Premiere's are fully-functional today, but not at first when they launched. They were PLAGUED with HDUI problems upon release. I believe it was just the recent fall update that finally made the YouTube "bearable".

The Stream is not. How long has it been out already? Still no Android support.

Even the TiVo app for cell phones was Apple-only for how long before they released the Android version?

It's reasons like this that I say that everything TiVo does is "half-baked".

Their entire production and development is a catch-22. They take forever to develop and implement new products to the marketplace, and when they do, they always are missing something. That starts the debate amongst TCF people about either:

1) "be patient and let them thoroughly test and get it to market"
OR
2) "what the heck is taking you people so long to get this done"

So, it seems that TiVo gets their new products to market because their development is so mind-numbingly slow, and then takes another 4 years for them to work out all the bugs.

As much as I'd like a Mini (good luck to us all), I would have rather have had them keep their collective mouths shut about new products, get the multiplatform support completed for the Stream, then devote all resources to the Mini and its dynamic tuner allocation, then work on a next generation box. Nevermind the fact that they are going to "unsell" more of the Minis (to people like me) than they actually "sell" now that we know there will be a subscription or a service agreement for it. Those of us "in the know" (WINK) will just get another used DVR instead of a Mini.

But, I get the feeling that good old scatter-brained TiVo leadership has already started pulling engineering resources from the still incomplete Stream, and incomplete and unreleased Mini in order to start working on their next-gen box. I would expect nothing less.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

My advise for those that think TiVo DVRs suck is to not buy one. Enjoy the piece of sh** your cable provider rents you and watch live TV.

The reality is there is one and only one company selling stand alone cable DVR appliances and it is TiVo. TiVo has continued to improve it's products over time and it is likely they will continue to do so. From the recent CNN Money article:
In the past nine months, TiVo has spent $88.5 billion on research and development, equal to 41% of its total revenue in the period.​
We assume the billion is a typo and should be million but the reality is that spending 41% of revenue on research and development it indicates they are continue to improve products and develop new ones. Tivo is a small company in a niche market "progress" is limited by the reality of the limited market they are in.

If anyone would like to really see what the state of stand alone DVRs could be just check out the Over The Air (OTA) alternative DVRs out there and then come back and tell me how bad TiVo is or how slow they are improving.

Does the above mean I am happy with TiVo's current offerings or rate of improvement/development of course not. But I understand reality.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

I agree with what you are saying about the cablco DVRs. They are horrible, and TiVo is WAAAAAAY better. I also understand its a niche market they are in. I understand the reality of it, believe me. 

However, at this point, I am more, like, "SERIOUSLY? COME. ON." All of those BILLIONS (or millions) of dollars and they can't straighten out their stuff?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

The situation with TiVo and their product development is simple, if a better alterative for your DVR needs is out there, purchase it, TiVos product development is the process used for many products from a small co., get the product out and give improvements over time so revenues don't drop too far.
If one type of car was the best for all, we would not have the large number of car models to choose from.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

lessd said:


> The situation with TiVo and their product development is simple, if a better alterative for your DVR needs is out there, purchase it


Well that's the crux of the biscuit, isn't it? Tivo's product dev (or lack thereof) is mainly due to no one really pushing them to make it better because they've sued everyone else into submission, and/or partnered with cable to keep it 'just good enough'. So there isn't another one out there to purchase.

Cable doesn't want them making a kick-ass alternative and they want to keep cable happy, so...


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

NotNowChief said:


> But, I get the feeling that good old scatter-brained TiVo leadership has already started pulling engineering resources from the still incomplete Stream, and incomplete and unreleased Mini in order to start working on their next-gen box. I would expect nothing less.


This!


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## billbillw (Aug 15, 2005)

Nothing at CES other than the Tivo Mini, so I would say that means at least 2 years until something else comes along.


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## DaveDFW (Jan 25, 2005)

I'd also add that I wouldn't get too excited about a Tivo six-tuner box. They can't even get their four-tuner boxes to work reliably.

What's the point of two more nonworking tuners?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DaveDFW said:


> I'd also add that I wouldn't get too excited about a Tivo six-tuner box. They can't even get their four-tuner boxes to work reliably.
> 
> What's the point of two more nonworking tuners?


My two Elites and my two tuner Premiere has been very reliable. I would love to get a six tuner model and a couple of mini TiVos and go from three cable cards to one.


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## opus123 (Feb 14, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Well that's the crux of the biscuit, isn't it? Tivo's product dev (or lack thereof) is mainly due to no one really pushing them to make it better because they've sued everyone else into submission, and/or partnered with cable to keep it 'just good enough'. So there isn't another one out there to purchase.
> 
> Cable doesn't want them making a kick-ass alternative and they want to keep cable happy, so...


BINGO... Since Microsoft abandoned Ultimate TV, and Steve Jobs was never interested in TV (until he was months away from passing), TiVo hasn't had ANYONE pushing them to innovate.

They had an incredible idea, but haven't done much since. Ignorant people became overly cost conscious at the added benefit, and TiVo's limited scale couldn't bring down the cost of hardware, so the business stagnated... and TiVo milked as much as possible from the existing install base with mildly incremental updates to keep themselves afloat.

I completely understand the economic realities, but some of the hardware & connectivity limitations are laughable by the standards held to most any other company (still no built in wifi? really? every $49 Roku has one). The truth is no company is approaching "TV" like Apple did mobile phones in 2007; however, almost all of the usual suspects (MS, Google, AAPL, Samsung?, Amazon?) expanding peripheral influence are encroaching on the spot TiVo is supposed to hold. I'm guessing TiVo just wants to hold out long enough to become an attractive buy-out target for their intellectual property when the opportunity presents itself... but that that company may just decide to build a better mousetrap themselves and leave TiVo to become the next Kodak.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Cable doesn't want them making a kick-ass alternative and they want to keep cable happy, so...


This is why I STILL believe the next wave of TiVos will NOT have antenna/OTA support. I think it will strictly be a six tuner (or possibly more), digital cable only model. I know several here have stated that TiVo has filed something with the FCC for an OTA license of some kind & this is why they will have it in the new hardware, but I have a bad feeling that this will be abandoned cause like biscuit mentioned, "they want to keep cable happy" & they are still their true bread and butter in terms of users. Yea, OTA use is on the rise these days and the whole tv viewing model is changing, but still not where it could be to totally over take cable in terms of a money making business model.

I really hope I am wrong on this, but only time will tell.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

My guess is a 4-tuner OTA model and a 6-tuner cable model. And the XL maybe only available on the cable side?


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

NotNowChief said:


> This is just as realistic as the TiVo Mini being released March 2013.
> 
> TiVo should rename the company to "Fantasy Island".


 As Mr. Rourke would say.." Welcome to Fantasy Island!! "


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Bigg said:


> My guess is a 4-tuner OTA model and a 6-tuner cable model. And the XL maybe only available on the cable side?


Woops, I guess I already posted my previous comments in this threat. Basically, I hope this prediction happens, but I have a bad feeling it won't.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

buscuitboy said:


> Woops, I guess I already posted my previous comments in this threat. Basically, I hope this prediction happens, but I have a bad feeling it won't.


At minimum, they will do a 2-tuner OTA box, but that seems weak at this point, even though 2 is a decent number of tuners when you have 5 channels not 110. I get what you're saying about cable having a lot of pull over TiVo, but it's not Comcast, Cablevision, Cox, Charter, and TWC we're talking about here. It's Suddenlink, RCN, and a bunch of tiny companies.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Bigg said:


> when you have 5 channels not 110.


I wonder why you keep saying this. Even your area has more than 5 OTA channels.
Why do you keep exaggerating this number? What is your agenda?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Why on earth would they produce a _*new*_ 2-tuner OTA model? And who would buy it?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

steve614 said:


> I wonder why you keep saying this. Even your area has more than 5 OTA channels.
> Why do you keep exaggerating this number? What is your agenda?


Because he has nothing better to say. I'm not even sure why it would matter to him if they did create a 4 tuner OTA box. It seems like he and others do not get the idea of 3 to 4 Channels having something on at the same time and they don't rerun all the damn time like cable and satellite do. Not to mention 5 good channels out of 110 on cable amounts to about the same need for tuners. Couple that with the fact that cable reruns things and has VOD and you have even less of a reason to need 4 tuners.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

While I would love to see a new 3 or 4 tuner OTA/Cable TiVo, even a new dual tuner TiVo would be a significant improvement. First it would have new hardware which is really really needed to support more IP streaming features second if it was a digital only TiVo a dual tuner OTA/Cable TiVo could record 4 channels at once 2 from OTA and 2 from Cable unlike the current dual tuner TiVo which is limited to only being able to record 2 channels at once.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

All these speculations, but no actual confirmation on anything.

I'm telling you, this thing is codenamed BIGFOOT.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

magnus said:


> Because he has nothing better to say. I'm not even sure why it would matter to him if they did create a 4 tuner OTA box. It seems like he and others do not get the idea of 3 to 4 Channels having something on at the same time and they don't rerun all the damn time like cable and satellite do. Not to mention 5 good channels out of 110 on cable amounts to about the same need for tuners. Couple that with the fact that cable reruns things and has VOD and you have even less of a reason to need 4 tuners.


I'm thinking that now that there is the Hulu Plus streaming option these days & its probably becoming a more common way to watch network programming, this might be a factor in why they won't have a new OTA box. There are also some other companies doing a similar type thing (Aereo and Boxee are the ones that come to mind first for me)

Hell, HULU PLus could even be considered a direct threat to TiVo as its a form of a cloud based DVR in some sense. Just a theory.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> While I would love to see a new 3 or 4 tuner OTA/Cable TiVo, even a new dual tuner TiVo would be a significant improvement. First it would have new hardware which is really really needed to support more IP streaming features second if it was a digital only TiVo a dual tuner OTA/Cable TiVo could record 4 channels at once 2 from OTA and 2 from Cable unlike the current dual tuner TiVo which is limited to only being able to record 2 channels at once.


I think that scenario extremely unlikely. There would be few if any customers for this. If someone wants to "cut the cord", 2-tuners won't be enough. If they don't want to cut the cord, why do they need OTA?


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> I think that scenario extremely unlikely. There would be few if any customers for this. If someone wants to "cut the cord", 2-tuners won't be enough. If they don't want to cut the cord, why do they need OTA?


Yea, I agree completely with this statement & good points. On another note, I have considered "cutting the cord" at times and I hate to say this, but I would most likely just go with one of my older Series 3 TiVos or one of my current 2-tuner Premieres to accomplish this OTA avenue.

Someone can EASILY get one of these older models off ebay and/or Craigslist for cheap too. So why cough up money for a new model that will probably essentially do the same basic thing as an older unit for OTA use. I got a working Series 3 (OLED) off Craigslist a few months ago for essentially $20. Not to mention the monthly cost is only $9.99/month for these units (& I might be able to lifetime it for $99 here in a few months). I'm currently using it with digital cable, but its nice to know I have the option of using it for OTA use down the road if I really want.


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## mtsmylie (Apr 18, 2013)

So we're moving to a new location at the end of next month, where TWC is the only option for cable. Understandably, I'm seriously considering grabbing a Premiere XL4 ahead of time, but had heard rumors of new hardware coming up soon.

But based on this thread, those rumors are pure speculation. Should I just go ahead and pull the trigger on the XL4?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

buscuitboy said:


> Yea, I agree completely with this statement & good points. On another note, I have considered "cutting the cord" at times and I hate to say this, but I would most likely just go with one of my older Series 3 TiVos or one of my current 2-tuner Premieres to accomplish this OTA avenue.
> 
> Someone can EASILY get one of these older models off ebay and/or Craigslist for cheap too. So why cough up money for a new model that will probably essentially do the same basic thing as an older unit for OTA use. I got a working Series 3 (OLED) off Craigslist a few months ago for essentially $20. Not to mention the monthly cost is only $9.99/month for these units (& I might be able to lifetime it for $99 here in a few months). I'm currently using it with digital cable, but its nice to know I have the option of using it for OTA use down the road if I really want.


Well, the orig premiere has cable and OTA. The problem with it is that the ATSC tuner they used sucks in it. I have a premiere and a TivoHD, both on same antenna. The Premiere gets 17 OTA channels, and 15 are useable, the TivoHD gets 24 and ALL are useable.

Well known problem, and the reason I keep my lifetime TivoHD on OTA only. I just wish they would enhance their 'whole home solution' to allow an integrated 'Now Showing'


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

This may not mean much but a friend ordered a few TP-4s from TiVo because of an E-Mail giving him the units at a total price of $550 with Lifetime, They came in April 17th, but the manufactured date (on the units) was November 12th, more than 5 months ago, the last time this happen was with the TiVo-HD than the TP was released.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> I think that scenario extremely unlikely. There would be few if any customers for this. If someone wants to "cut the cord", 2-tuners won't be enough. If they don't want to cut the cord, why do they need OTA?


As a backup or to get the OTA sub-channels that their cable company does not provide.

Personally I'm using both cable, with my Elites, and OTA only with a two tuner Premiere. I use this Premiere to take content back and forth to my GFs house. So I record the shows we watch from OTA, since my OTA can be more reliable than hers. And I use it to transfer content I've recorded from the cable channels.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

buscuitboy said:


> ...
> Someone can EASILY get one of these older models off ebay and/or Craigslist for cheap too. So why cough up money for a new model that will probably essentially do the same basic thing as an older unit for OTA use. I got a working Series 3 (OLED) off Craigslist a few months ago for essentially $20. Not to mention the monthly cost is only $9.99/month for these units (& I might be able to lifetime it for $99 here in a few months). I'm currently using it with digital cable, but its nice to know I have the option of using it for OTA use down the road if I really want.


Used TiVos are certainly an option for some people but what you stated is true if someone is looking at a TiVo for cable or OTA. In any event I doubt that TiVo is deciding what products to develop and sell based on people primarily buying used hardware, if they are then they are planning on going out of business.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> I think that scenario extremely unlikely. There would be few if any customers for this. If someone wants to "cut the cord", 2-tuners won't be enough. If they don't want to cut the cord, why do they need OTA?


What do you find extremely unlikely? That TiVo continues to support OTA? continues to offer DVRs with different numbers of tuners?

The current hardware is over 3 years old and very outdated. TiVo needs to do a core platform hardware update badly. It is clear they are going to do that, the big questions is what combination of tuners do you put in the new hardware. From the FCC filing it appears they may decide to dump analog cable and OTA and are looking at digital only devices.

So what digital tuner chips are available on the market now? We know there are dual tuner OTA and Cable chips/modules, I believe there are also 3 tuner digital cable chips/modules. Anything else? Their current DVRs have stayed with using 2 chips/modules how many chips/modules is it reasonable for updated units to have 2 or more than 2?

It seems like a 6 tuner digital cable model is very likely and would replace the current 4 tuner models. If that happens does a 6 tuner model become TiVo's base model? Or do they still build something with less tuners?

I personally find it unlikely that: 

A 6 tuner DVR becomes their entry level DVR
That they continue to produce the current Premiere on it's outdated platform once the core platform has been updated for other models. 
That they are going to dump OTA
That they are going to build an OTA only DVR
So that leaves me believing they will still build a entry level combination OTA/Cable digital only DVR. If there are 3 tuner OTA chips available I would believe the unit would be a 3 tuner unit with one OTA chip/module and one cable chip/module, if not then I am guessing it stays a dual tuner.


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

If the platform is updated then Tivo can have a Roku like experience built into it. No need to switch inputs and maintain another box. 

It would be great if the next general boxes are a 6 tuner cable only and a 3-4 tuner OTA+cable box. Given the choice, I will buy a combo box in case I wish to return to cable in the future.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

buscuitboy said:


> Hell, HULU PLus could even be considered a direct threat to TiVo as its a form of a cloud based DVR in some sense. Just a theory.


If Hulu Plus had next day CBS programming, then the need for a Tivo to record ota is greatly lessened. But I don't see that happening any time soon. And honestly, the owners of Hulu (who also happen to own three of those ota networks) don't really want it to succeed. Plus with Hulu up for sale again, ota dvr's may become even more important.

So yes, the need for a 3/4 tuner ota dvr is still there.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

moedaman said:


> If Hulu Plus had next day CBS programming, then the need for a Tivo to record ota is greatly lessened. But I don't see that happening any time soon. And honestly, the owners of Hulu (who also happen to own three of those ota networks) don't really want it to succeed. Plus with Hulu up for sale again, ota dvr's may become even more important.
> 
> So yes, the need for a 3/4 tuner ota dvr is still there.


This is the way I look at Hulu+ versus OTA when it comes to Network content:

OTA - Free -- Hulu+ - Costs Money
OTA - Skip-able commercials -- Hulu+ - Unskip-able commercials 
OTA - Best Quality -- Hulu+ lower quality

Now there maybe reasons to pay for Hulu+ (I haven't found them) but paying more for lower quality video that you have to let the commercials play through that you could have TiVoed for free sure isn't one of them.

On the other hand I find Hulu another matter all together, being free I can stand the lower quality and commercials and use it for the times something happens and I missed TiVoing something.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> What do you find extremely unlikely? That TiVo continues to support OTA? continues to offer DVRs with different numbers of tuners?
> 
> The current hardware is over 3 years old and very outdated. TiVo needs to do a core platform hardware update badly. It is clear they are going to do that, the big questions is what combination of tuners do you put in the new hardware. From the FCC filing it appears they may decide to dump analog cable and OTA and are looking at digital only devices.
> 
> ...


Yes, I find it extremely unlikely that they will offer a 4-tuner model, with two OTA and two digital cable and have the ability to record on all 4-tuners. Way too small a target consumer. I find it fairly unlikely that they will offer any new 2 OTA tuner models.


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

lpwcomp said:


> Yes, I find it extremely unlikely that they will offer a 4-tuner model, with two OTA and two digital cable and have the ability to record on all 4-tuners. Way too small a target consumer. I find it fairly unlikely that they will offer any new 2 OTA tuner models.


Tivo will then offer add on OTA tuners for the new model(s). DirecTV is already doing this.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

steve614 said:


> I wonder why you keep saying this. Even your area has more than 5 OTA channels.
> Why do you keep exaggerating this number? What is your agenda?


If you want to argue that a lot of the 110 channels that are physically present in HD on cable are junk, I think that would have some merit. So let's say 20 channels on cable, and 5 on OTA. Saying that a bunch of other junk channels are somehow relevant to the number of tuners that a DVR has is simply not relevant, however.



magnus said:


> Because he has nothing better to say. I'm not even sure why it would matter to him if they did create a 4 tuner OTA box. It seems like he and others do not get the idea of 3 to 4 Channels having something on at the same time and they don't rerun all the damn time like cable and satellite do. Not to mention 5 good channels out of 110 on cable amounts to about the same need for tuners. Couple that with the fact that cable reruns things and has VOD and you have even less of a reason to need 4 tuners.


You're going to have a lot more good channels on cable, and there's a lot more content there. I don't think I've ever used more than 2 clear QAM channels at once, and I'm not sure I've ever done 2 at the same time, except for recording all 4 local news broadcasts, which is not exactly a must-have.

Even if you say that there are the 5 clear QAM channels plus 8 cable channels that have more content than that 5 clear QAM, that's a much more compelling story for a 4-tuner DVR than just the 5 OTA channels.

All that being said, it would be good to market a 4-tuner OTA box, even if the use case is dubious. Especially since the OTA users have to provide their own DVR, they don't have an MSO to turn to for it, so you'd think that market would be far more ripe for a company like TiVo. Or maybe OTA users just don't watch TV, and that's why they don't have cable...


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Bigg said:


> If you want to argue that a lot of the 110 channels that are physically present in HD on cable are junk, I think that would have some merit.


Of course it does. I agree that a lot of the OTA channels are junk, but you have to admit that a lot of cable channels are junk, too.
I did use cable once, before I got a DVR. I think I watched _maybe_ 10 cable channels on top of what I watched what was available OTA.



Bigg said:


> So let's say 20 channels on cable, and 5 on OTA. Saying that a bunch of other junk channels are somehow relevant to the number of tuners that a DVR has is simply not relevant, however.


I think your ratio is a little short on the OTA side (I'll agree to 7 ), but for the sake of argument, you have to factor in conflict resolution.
With cable, you have a 99.9999% chance of catching a repeat airing of a show within a week. With OTA, you have 0.1111% chance.
With cable, you are less likely to need 4 tuners than you are with OTA only.
Also consider that someone OTA only might have a lower tolerance level for what you might consider junk. 
If I had the time to watch, I could argue for 4 more OTA channels. Two that show reruns of old shows and two that mostly run old movies.
If I were a religious sort, I could argue for 3 more there.
The digital age has allowed OTA to expand. Your argument would have more merit if we were still in the analog days.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> I think that scenario extremely unlikely. There would be few if any customers for this. If someone wants to "cut the cord", 2-tuners won't be enough. If they don't want to cut the cord, why do they need OTA?


I missed this post before. Most people who are cutting the cord are doing so because they don't watch much TV in the first place, but aren't willing to give it up entirely.



mr_smits said:


> Tivo will then offer add on OTA tuners for the new model(s). DirecTV is already doing this.


That's actually the most logical. What would be great is if you could add two OTA modules with 2 tuners each to a Premiere.



steve614 said:


> Of course it does. I agree that a lot of the OTA channels are junk, but you have to admit that a lot of cable channels are junk, too.
> I did use cable once, before I got a DVR. I think I watched _maybe_ 10 cable channels on top of what I watched what was available OTA.


I'll give you that most cable channels is junk. However, when you add even 8 channels of content on top of OTA, it's several times the amount of content you can get on OTA alone.



steve614 said:


> I think your ratio is a little short on the OTA side (I'll agree to 7 ), but for the sake of argument, you have to factor in conflict resolution.
> With cable, you have a 99.9999% chance of catching a repeat airing of a show within a week. With OTA, you have 0.1111% chance.
> With cable, you are less likely to need 4 tuners than you are with OTA only.
> Also consider that someone OTA only might have a lower tolerance level for what you might consider junk.
> ...


Re-running anything old is a waste. There's Netflix, Hulu, Blu-rays on Amazon, and anything halfway recent is also on TPB.

Most of what the networks run is junk, with a few exceptions. The subchannels are pure garbage, even PBS2 which would have decent content if it didn't look like RealPlayer web video from 2002. There's not enough bandwidth to do subchannels in a meaningful way. They should all go back to one channel per slot at 19mbps. Thats the way HD was supposed to be.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Bigg said:


> I missed this post before. Most people who are cutting the cord are doing so because they don't watch much TV in the first place, but aren't willing to give it up entirely.


Do you have any actual evidence to support that statement, particularly as it applies to current and potential TiVo users? The increasingly ridiculous cost of cable has absolutely nothing to do with it?

Anecdotal evidence concerning the need for more than two OTA tuners: There was a time many years ago (pre-digital conversion) when I had 5 things I or someone in the household was watching, that were on at the same time - and they were all on network TV and thus local channels and only 1 showing. I had to use all 4 of my ST TiVos *and* a VCR to get everything. While I did have cable, I _*could*_ have recorded them OTA. Even today, I frequently need to record more than two locals at the same time.

That said, I would think that the market for a 4+ tuner OTA TiVo would be much smaller than the one for the Premiere 4/XL4. One of the main advantages of the 4 tuner model vs. the 2 tuner model - fewer CableCARD/Digital outlet fees - doesn't apply in the OTA only configuration.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

mr_smits said:


> If the platform is updated then Tivo can have a Roku like experience built into it. No need to switch inputs and maintain another box.


LOL, this would make sense if they had a sniff on how to deliver software that people like to use. As opposed to, say, the current Netflix, Youtube and Amazon apps.

Tivo will never have a Roku-like experience, IMO. They have a hard enough time getting all the bugs out of the DVR code, not to mention finishing it in HD.


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## theoryzero (Jan 7, 2010)

I've been OTA-only since I bought my Premiere three years ago. I recently got an email titled "TiVo Antenna Survey". Some of the topics covered (paraphrased):
- How satisfied are you with the quality of the tuner?
- What streaming services do you use to supplement your OTA viewing? (e.g. Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc.)
- How much money per month did you save going OTA-only?

The question most relevant to this thread:


> Think about a general type of entertainment device with these capabilities:
> - 300-hour DVR (supports cable or antenna)
> - Four tuners (record four shows at once)
> - Can access broadband video services (Netflix, Amazon Instant Video, Hulu Plus, etc.)
> ...


I'm not getting my hopes up, but I read that as a quad-tuner OTA-capable TiVo is something they are at least trying to determine interest for.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> ...................Re-running anything old is a waste. There's Netflix, Hulu, Blu-rays on Amazon, and anything halfway recent is also on TPB.
> 
> ..........................


The vast majority of content broadcast on OTA and cable is old content. Only a minority of it is new. It has been that way for a long time.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

theoryzero said:


> I've been OTA-only since I bought my Premiere three years ago. I recently got an email titled "TiVo Antenna Survey". Some of the topics covered (paraphrased):
> - How satisfied are you with the quality of the tuner?
> - What streaming services do you use to supplement your OTA viewing? (e.g. Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc.)
> - How much money per month did you save going OTA-only?
> ...


Wish my survey had ask those questions I would have told them 100% likely to buy one. Not that there is anything wrong with the 3 HD TiVos I use for OTA now but I am ready to buy something new just for the fun of it.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Do you have any actual evidence to support that statement, particularly as it applies to current and potential TiVo users? The increasingly ridiculous cost of cable has absolutely nothing to do with it?
> 
> Anecdotal evidence concerning the need for more than two OTA tuners: There was a time many years ago (pre-digital conversion) when I had 5 things I or someone in the household was watching, that were on at the same time - and they were all on network TV and thus local channels and only 1 showing. I had to use all 4 of my ST TiVos *and* a VCR to get everything. While I did have cable, I _*could*_ have recorded them OTA. Even today, I frequently need to record more than two locals at the same time.
> 
> That said, I would think that the market for a 4+ tuner OTA TiVo would be much smaller than the one for the Premiere 4/XL4. One of the main advantages of the 4 tuner model vs. the 2 tuner model - fewer CableCARD/Digital outlet fees - doesn't apply in the OTA only configuration.


But if you get rid of most of the content, you also can't watch most of the TV. The people who are canceling cable are canceling it because they don't watch TV anyways, not because they are wanting to give a lot up just to cut costs.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Bigg said:


> But if you get rid of most of the content, you also can't watch most of the TV. The people who are canceling cable are canceling it because they don't watch TV anyways, not because they are wanting to give a lot up just to cut costs.


Once again I ask, do you have any data to support that statement? As written, you are saying that *everyone* who has switched to OTA only doesn't watch TV, which is demonstrably false.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo's filing with the FCC specifically asks for a waiver on the analog portion of the OTA requirements, as well as the analog portion of the cable requirements, so all indications point toward them producing a new unit with OTA support in the future. And with the Mini specifically requiring a 4 tuner unit it's likely any future OTA unit will have 4 tuners.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo's filing with the FCC specifically asks for a waiver on the analog portion of the OTA requirements, as well as the analog portion of the cable requirements, so all indications point toward them producing a new unit with OTA support in the future. And with the Mini specifically requiring a 4 tuner unit it's likely any future OTA unit will have 4 tuners.


Exactly, I'm not sure why Mr. Bigg is having an issue with wether or not Tivo will have a 4 tuner box for OTA. It's obviously needed. I'm not sure why he's having such a problem with it.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

magnus said:


> Exactly, I'm not sure why Mr. Bigg is having an issue with wether or not Tivo will have a 4 tuner box for OTA. It's obviously needed. I'm not sure why he's having such a problem with it.


I think it's a good idea to market it, but I just don't think in the real world that there's much of a use case for it.


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## BrooklynBlueEyes (Mar 9, 2012)

I hope you're wrong too! I've a member of the TiVo Advisor community and I've been very vocal as well about OTA support.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

BrooklynBlueEyes said:


> I hope you're wrong too! I've a member of the TiVo Advisor community and I've been very vocal as well about OTA support.


I honestly think that they will release a 4-tuner OTA/cable model and a 6-tuner cable model, but we'll see. What I think would make the most sense is to only release a 6-tuner cable model, and then let OTA users buy USB tuners to add on, so you could add up to 2 dual tuner OTA adapters for 4 OTA tuners total.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> I honestly think that they will release a 4-tuner OTA/cable model and a 6-tuner cable model, but we'll see. What I think would make the most sense is to only release a 6-tuner cable model, and then let OTA users buy USB tuners to add on, so you could add up to 2 dual tuner OTA adapters for 4 OTA tuners total.


There may be a big difference between what you may like TiVo to release in a new product and what TiVo does release, we can all guess until the cows come home but that guessing will not influence very much what TiVo does release, as of now TiVo already knows what the next product is, it may be nothing more than a 6 tuner TP, maybe without the SDUI as the Mini does not have a SDUI. TiVo may have some more useful ideas that can be used with updated and much faster hardware. The last TP-4s that were just delivered from TiVo have a November 12th date on them, so maybe TiVo is just getting rid of stock before the release of any new stuff.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> I think it's a good idea to market it, but I just don't think in the real world that there's much of a use case for it.


I don't think we'll ever see a 4 tuner OTA only model, but i think we're likely to see a 4 tuner unit that supports both cable and OTA. Especially since the new Mini is marketed specifically as only supporting units with 4 or more tuners. They almost have to have a 4 tuner OTA box for the Mini to thrive at retail. Plus if they can eliminate the hardware for analog tuning and encoding the cost of adding OTA should be relatively trivial.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think we'll ever see a 4 tuner OTA only model, but i think we're likely to see a 4 tuner unit that supports both cable and OTA. Especially since the new Mini is marketed specifically as only supporting units with 4 or more tuners. They almost have to have a 4 tuner OTA box for the Mini to thrive at retail. Plus if they can eliminate the hardware for analog tuning and encoding the cost of adding OTA should be relatively trivial.


While it's entirely possible that we will see such a TiVo, IMHO it would not be for the purpose of increasing Mini sales nor is likely to result in much if any such increase. Again IMHO, the difference in cost simply doesn't offset the loss of capability vs. getting a full TiVo in an OTA only configuration and there aren't very many people doing both cable and OTA.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

What I hope we see is a TiVo that can handle the bigger hard drives like 4Tb.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> While it's entirely possible that we will see such a TiVo, IMHO it would not be for the purpose of increasing Mini sales nor is likely to result in much if any such increase. Again IMHO, the difference in cost simply doesn't offset the loss of capability vs. getting a full TiVo in an OTA only configuration and there aren't very many people doing both cable and OTA.


There's less of an incentive to go to the Mini when you don't have the CableCard cost per unit. I would think that with the 4-tuner and upcoming 6-tuner models, there would be a fair number of people who are satisfied with one box on CableCard, and then keep another 1 or 2 Premieres around for OTA tuners, and avoid the $7/mo CableCard fee at the same time. That would be an ideal setup. However, this is possible now, with a 4-tuner CableCard TiVo hosting the Minis, and 2-tuner Premieres doing OTA duty on other TVs and streaming content from the 4-tuner box.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Just so Mr. Bigg knows.... both of my two tuner Premiere's are recording tonight for OTA only. 1 is recording on both tuners and the other is recording on 1 tuner. 

So, there does seem to be a need for more than two tuners for OTA... despite what he may think.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If I were OTA only, without a decent internet connection, four tuners would definitely not be enough. There would easily be times when I would be recording five or six concurrent things from OTA. I certainly did twenty years ago with VCRs.

But since I do watch content from cable, and have less free time than twenty years ago, I don't watch as many things as I would like. But if I could, I would be watching many more shows from the broadcast networks.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I could use a 4 tuner OTA DVR for recording NFL games. The Hopper from Dish records all the network channels during prime time and Direct TV has the NFL Sunday Ticket. There seems to be a potential market for multi Tuner OTA capability.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> There's less of an incentive to go to the Mini when you don't have the CableCard cost per unit.


That's not true. There is still incentive to go with a single 4 tuner unit with Minis in secondary locations, even if you're OTA only. The biggest reason for having a 4+ tuner DVR is convenience. Having all your SPs and recordings on a single TiVo is much easier to manage, regardless of the source. The second is cost. Even though the Mini isn't as cheap as some had hoped it's still cheaper then a second full blown DVR. Plus it draws less power and has a much smaller foot print.

I think going forward TiVo is going to transition to the "whole house" model where you have a single DVR doing all the recording, while Minis and iPads handle viewing in secondary locations. It's just a better setup for most people. One thing I'm hoping they do though on the software side is to finally add user profiles. That way multiple people can more easily use a single DVR without stepping on each other's toes.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Am I the only one who hates having single points of failure? Yes, some are difficult to nearly impossible to avoid, but having one TiVo do everything isn't one of them.

There is another issue with the Mini - currently, you have to remove 1 or 2 tuners from your recording pool to support "live buffered" TV at the Mini(s) location(s).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

While there are some risks with having everything on a single TiVo I think that risk is outweighed by the benefits. We're talking about TV here, not mission critical data. It would suck to have a complete failure that caused the total loss of all recordings. However those are rare and these days pretty much every thing could be found via other means, so you have alternatives for finding things that are important. The benefits on the other hand effect the daily usage of the TiVo. I use to have two dual tuner units I used for everything. I had to constantly check the To Do lists on both and move shows between them to prevent conflicts. I switched to a 4 tuner unit and have completely stopped checking the To Do list and I have never had a single conflict.

As for the Mini... You don't have to dedicate a tuner to it unless you need to watch live TV. Plus TiVo has public ally stated that they are working on dynamic tuner allocation which will eliminate this problem and it should be ready long before these new boxes are released.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> That's not true. There is still incentive to go with a single 4 tuner unit with Minis in secondary locations, even if you're OTA only. The biggest reason for having a 4+ tuner DVR is convenience. Having all your SPs and recordings on a single TiVo is much easier to manage, regardless of the source. The second is cost. Even though the Mini isn't as cheap as some had hoped it's still cheaper then a second full blown DVR. Plus it draws less power and has a much smaller foot print.
> 
> I think going forward TiVo is going to transition to the "whole house" model where you have a single DVR doing all the recording, while Minis and iPads handle viewing in secondary locations. It's just a better setup for most people. One thing I'm hoping they do though on the software side is to finally add user profiles. That way multiple people can more easily use a single DVR without stepping on each other's toes.


True, you do get to centralize. User profiles would be great. And fixing the numerous half-finished pieces of software in the TiVo Premiere line, and adding multi-channel HD/SD show recording.

However, then you have to look at how many cord cutters are going to spend that much on a DVR. Most DVR users, even TiVo users are on cable. Many OTA users aren't going to watch enough TV in the first place to have more than one TV.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I agree that OTA users are a small market, but if TiVo can add the functionality cheap enough then they might as well. It's not like this will be an OTA only box. There is no way they'd ever release one of those. This will have the option of doing cable or OTA, so the market will mainly be cable users but if they can add even a few thousand OTA only users then that's still a few thousand more then they would have had if the box was cable only.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> While there are some risks with having everything on a single TiVo I think that risk is outweighed by the benefits. We're talking about TV here, not mission critical data. It would suck to have a complete failure that caused the total loss of all recordings. However those are rare and these days pretty much every thing could be found via other means, so you have alternatives for finding things that are important. The benefits on the other hand effect the daily usage of the TiVo. I use to have two dual tuner units I used for everything. I had to constantly check the To Do lists on both and move shows between them to prevent conflicts. I switched to a 4 tuner unit and have completely stopped checking the To Do list and I have never had a single conflict.
> 
> As for the Mini... You don't have to dedicate a tuner to it unless you need to watch live TV. Plus TiVo has public ally stated that they are working on dynamic tuner allocation which will eliminate this problem and it should be ready long before these new boxes are released.


Yes I really didn't like the idea of having a one point of failure and losing a bunch of recordings. But having less boxes to deal with made a big difference for me. I used to use four Premieres for my main recordings. And it was a pain having to manage all those. Since replacing those four Premieres with two Elites, Season pass management is so much easier.

I enjoy it so much that I plan on selling both my Elites to replace them with a six tuner TiVo when it's released. I just hope it has at least a 3TB drive for storage. And preferably a 4TB drive..


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

lpwcomp said:


> Am I the only one who hates having single points of failure? Yes, some are difficult to nearly impossible to avoid, but having one TiVo do everything isn't one of them.


Agreed. I have multiple TiVos in the house and am glad to have some redundancy. Now and again a show doesn't record well. It pixelates and freezes. Not too often, and not the same machine every time, so a really random event. Glad to just transfer a copy over.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Here's another reason for mixed OTA and Cable. All the sudden my TiVo, an original S3, has been having recording issues. Basically lots of video and audio breakup. My wife restarted it and the problems seemed to go away. This evening, 8 days before we go on a 2 week vacation, the problems started again. I restarted the TiVo several times with no improvement. Re-seated all the cable connections, to no avail. Eventually as a last guess, I did what I did during the period that our cable was out after Hurricane Sandy, I switched over to the OTA channel, yes I still have an indoor antenna pointing at the Empire State Building, just for these occasions. My OTA channels are perfectly cleans. Ironically and fortunately, so is AMC so tonight's Mad Men should also record. 

If the problem is still persisting after we get back from vacation, I call Comcast and start a royal *****fest.

Point being... Even with cable, it's always good to have an OTA fallback.

I'm waiting for an S5 or whatever TiVo decides to call it, hoping it will have both OTA and Cable capability, and if it does, I'll transfer my original Series 1 grandfathered lifetime to it, replace the S3 with it's two cable cards, and buy a mini with lifetime. Please TiVo, make me a happy customer. I've been with you since the beginning.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Had same problem with my S3. It's most likely caused by a dying power supply. I replaced the whole TiVo with a 4 tuner unit, but I did look at the power supply and I see some bulging capacitors so I'm 95% sure that's the problem.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Also, it could be a fluke, and could be a hard drive starting to go bad.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Dan, I'm pretty sure you've hit the nail on the head with your power supply diagnosis. For two reasons, first, after unplugging and replugging, the unit would not restart, I had to wait several minutes before it would re-power up, several times. Second, I did look at the power supply, and while there doesn't seem to be any leakage, the caps are slightly bulging. I'm annoyed if this is the case, simply because this was a unit that was replaced just a year ago with a $50 fee, also for a bad power supply.

I'm just not sure why cable channels would be bad and OTA is working just fine.

Unfortunately, I'm not yet ready to replace this unit for the simple reason that I'm waiting for the next TiVo series that will hopefully restore OTA capacity while at the same time be a server for the Mini.


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## stujac (Jan 26, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Had same problem with my S3. It's most likely caused by a dying power supply. I replaced the whole TiVo with a 4 tuner unit, but I did look at the power supply and I see some bulging capacitors so I'm 95% sure that's the problem.


Sorry if this has been asked but can you replace the power supply? I'm having issues with my TivoHD that uses a WD external hd. It's probably the hard drive but if it is the power supply, what to do?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

stujac said:


> Sorry if this has been asked but can you replace the power supply? I'm having issues with my TivoHD that uses a WD external hd. It's probably the hard drive but if it is the power supply, what to do?


Weaknees sells power supplies

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-power-supply.php

You can replace bulging caps yourself for much less. There are threads in the S3 section.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Weaknees sells power supplies
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-power-supply.php
> 
> You can replace bulging caps yourself for much less. There are threads in the S3 section.


WOW!!! Those are very expensive. At least the S4 power supplies are only $50.

I hope I don't have to deal with the power supplies on my GFs two S3 boxes. So far they still work great since 2006.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

MScottC said:


> Dan, I'm pretty sure you've hit the nail on the head with your power supply diagnosis. For two reasons, first, after unplugging and replugging, the unit would not restart, I had to wait several minutes before it would re-power up, several times. Second, I did look at the power supply, and while there doesn't seem to be any leakage, the caps are slightly bulging. I'm annoyed if this is the case, simply because this was a unit that was replaced just a year ago with a $50 fee, also for a bad power supply.
> 
> I'm just not sure why cable channels would be bad and OTA is working just fine.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm not yet ready to replace this unit for the simple reason that I'm waiting for the next TiVo series that will hopefully restore OTA capacity while at the same time be a server for the Mini.


Mine also records OTA just fine. It also can record from one of the two CableCARDs just fine as well. I'm not sure how the power supply is divided up to the various components, but in my case it only effected CableCARD #2. If I removed the card I could actually record all unencrypted channels on that tuner. However I ruled out a CableCARD issue by replacing both cards and still having the same issue. Like I said I'm 95% sure it's the power supply causing the problem.

If you're desperate you should buy a used Premiere unit and put it on a month to month contract. Then when the new units are released you can invest in one with lifetime. A used Premiere without lifetime shouldn't cost more then about $50. (+$12.95/mo MSD for subscription)


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Weaknees sells power supplies
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-power-supply.php
> 
> You can replace bulging caps yourself for much less. There are threads in the S3 section.


I had a buldging cap issue on my Series 3 (OLED). I didn't feel comfortable soldering new ones on, but was able to find a local mom-and-pop repair place that basically did it for $17.

Also, you may want to scour Craigslist and/or ebay for the same Series 3 and use it for parts. Could be cheaper than getting one from Weaknees. Although, it might wind up having the same issue in the long run anyway.

I actually sort of did this as well. I was able to find a used & fully working Series 3 (OLED) on Craigslist for about $40. At the time, I got it mainly for its hard drive (since my S3's was failing), but I could use its power supply if I really wanted. It also came with a glo remote and USB wireless adapter. I am using and liking the glo remote for a bedroom TiVo and I was able to sell the USB wireless adapter on ebay for about $30 (since I have all hard wired Ethernet jacks). So, bottom line is I was able to get this Series 3 off Craigslist for about $10 at the end of the day. Well worth it.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I spoke to TiVo yesterday, and their tech support specialist asked me if my unit was plugged into a power strip. It is plugged into a UPS. I'm not sure how this could make a difference. As a video technician working with all sorts of video gear over the last 40 years, I've never heard of not being able to plug equipment, ranging from $80 consumer recorders to million dollar servers, routers and switchers into power strips. Has anyone ever had a power strip make a difference in terms of their TiVo?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

MScottC said:


> I spoke to TiVo yesterday, and their tech support specialist asked me if my unit was plugged into a power strip. It is plugged into a UPS. I'm not sure how this could make a difference. As a video technician working with all sorts of video gear over the last 40 years, I've never heard of not being able to plug equipment, ranging from $80 consumer recorders to million dollar servers, routers and switchers into power strips. Has anyone ever had a power strip make a difference in terms of their TiVo?


Not a TiVo, but my mother's Dell PC is extremely sensitive on what her computer is plugged into. It will shut off all the time if it is on an APC backup and regular power strips but works fine with Cyberpower backups.


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