# Need Advise! Los Angeles MPEG 4 conversion date?



## Afergy (Feb 16, 2004)

I spoke with D*'s retention department a few days ago to inquire about getting a deal on another HD Tivo. They informed me that they are now leasing the units at a premium. Can anyone tell me with accuracy and not opinion when the Los Angeles area will switch to MPEG 4 thus rendering my 3 very expensive HD Tivo units as door stoppers? D* first said this summer, then came back with no sooner than two years. If it's two years I might pony up some more cash to purchase another.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Afergy said:


> I spoke with D*'s retention department a few days ago to inquire about getting a deal on another HD Tivo. They informed me that they are now leasing the units at a premium. Can anyone tell me with accuracy and not opinion when the Los Angeles area will switch to MPEG 4 thus rendering my 3 very expensive HD Tivo units as door stoppers? D* first said this summer, then came back with no sooner than two years. If it's two years I might pony up some more cash to purchase another.


I thought the LA stations were already being fed by DirecTV as MPEG2,
and that isn't supposed to change for a while?

If I am mistaken, only the DirecTV feed of the LA stations will change to MPEG4, if you get them from an antenna, they will be MPEG2 for a long time, and your HR-10250's will work for a long time as well.
(barring any hard drive failure)

phox


----------



## Afergy (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for the reply! However, I was hoping to find out if anyone has an official statement from D* regarding the conversion dates.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Take my reply with a grain of salt.
I am only claiming what I think I might have read or heard elsewhere.


phox


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Afergy said:


> Thanks for the reply! However, I was hoping to find out if anyone has an official statement from D* regarding the conversion dates.


I don't think there is an official statement from D*. They probably do not know when this would happen as I imagine they would want to get all the other local stations up in Mpeg-4 before they worried about converting current MPEG-2 stations. I would imagine it will still be 2 years or more but that is just a guess.


----------



## Afergy (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks phox and bigpuma.


----------



## hancox (Dec 17, 2004)

I don't agree with the sentiment here. D* is getting fairly close to where all O&O markets (especially LA) would be covered by HD-LIL.

When that happens, I only see 2 roadblocks to stopping the MPEG2 feeds:

1) DNS / Waiver people from non-O&O markets. Not a big deal at all, this could be rectified fairly quickly.
2) MPEG4 HD DVR. Much bigger, as they really can't do anything until a DVR is available for these feeds.

Personal opinion - I'm thinking they might not last the year, but that all hinges on how long the MPEG4 DVR takes to hit the streets


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Rumors going around is that the LA MPEG-2 feeds will be dropped by September to make room for ST. The reason they will need them for ST is that ALL CBS games will be HD instead of just 3 so there will be 14 games on Sunday instead of last year's nine.

Also, Fresno, an ABC O&O and DMA #54, is on D*'s list for the next 24 markets. This will mean all O&O's will be converted to MPEG-4 by summer and D* will no longer need the LA -2 feed.

Take this will a grian of salt, but that is the rumor.


----------



## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Afergy said:


> Thanks for the reply! However, I was hoping to find out if anyone has an official statement from D* regarding the conversion dates.


DirecTV doesn't make official statements on things like this. They make the change and then send their customer service people a terse memo after a few days of screaming phone calls.


----------



## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

Afergy said:


> I spoke with D*'s retention department a few days ago to inquire about getting a deal on another HD Tivo. They informed me that they are now leasing the units at a premium. Can anyone tell me with accuracy and not opinion when the Los Angeles area will switch to MPEG 4 thus rendering my 3 very expensive HD Tivo units as door stoppers? D* first said this summer, then came back with no sooner than two years. If it's two years I might pony up some more cash to purchase another.


The MPEG2 LA HD channels on 81, 83, 87 and 89 are being used to provide West Coast HD locals to areas of the country that do NOT have HD locals yet. DirecTV does not plan to take these very important assets down until those using the channels get converted to MPEG4. That will be a least a year or maybe two away.

On another front, DirecTV does not plan to add any more MPEG4 LA HD locals beyond the present four until after the rest of the country gets converted to MPEG4.


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Bill Wood said:


> West Coast HD locals to areas of the country that do NOT have HD locals yet. DirecTV does not plan to take these very important assets down until those using the channels get converted to MPEG4. * That will be a least a year or maybe two away*.


By June all West Coast O&O's will have HD Locals. Press Release here:http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060222/20060222005912.html?.v=1

Given a few months to get all HD subs in the West Coast markets changed over to the new equipment, why would D* need to provide the LA MPEG-2 feeds anymore?

Why else would Fresno in DMA #54 be in the Top 36 markets to be converted? Because it is an ABC O&O is why.

Sorry Bill, I think you got this one wrong. 

Plus as I stated before, D* needs more bandwidth for ST in Hd this fall with all games going HD.

The one thing that could derail the plan is if the HD DVR is truly delayed until late fall which is rumored according to some reports. If that is the case, then D* has a few problems.


----------



## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

Herd

Of course, like you, it is just my opinion. But consider this. DirecTV provides the LA HD "locals" to most of HD subscribers in both the Mountain Time Zones and the Pacific Time zone. Like Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona as well at the populous California, Oregon and Washington. Some of these markets fall near the bottom of the DMA rankings. Study the DMA list here: http://tv.backchannelmedia.com/dma_directory Then let me know if you still feel channels 80 through 89 will go away within a year. ;-)


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

herdfan said:


> Plus as I stated before, D* needs more bandwidth for ST in Hd this fall with all games going HD.


They'll have plenty on the new MPEG4 slots, they'll leave the current MPEG2 how it is for a while.


Bill Wood said:


> But consider this. DirecTV provides the LA HD "locals" to most of HD subscribers in both the Mountain Time Zones and the Pacific Time zone. Like Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona as well at the populous California, Oregon and Washington. Some of these markets fall near the bottom of the DMA rankings. Study the DMA list here: http://tv.backchannelmedia.com/dma_directory Then let me know if you still feel channels 80 through 89 will go away within a year. ;-)


Utah is getting their MPEG4 locals mid April, we only have 1 station for each network, so it makes our conversion quick and simple.

I'll throw out a 2009 date for them to cut off MPEG2 HD though.
2009 being the cutoff date for analog TV.

I just got my HR10-250 up and running last weekend, so I've got to get a couple years use out of it.  
I'm gettin my locals off antenna, all I care about is HBO-HD and Showtime-HD,
and maybe UHD (Battlestar Galactica HD).

phox


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Bill Wood said:


> But consider this. DirecTV provides the LA HD "locals" to most of HD subscribers in both the Mountain Time Zones and the Pacific Time zone.


If they *are* providing to most HD subs in the Mountain and Pacific time zones, then they are violating the law. D*, or E* for that matter, can only provide a distant digital signal to subs who are in truly white areas white has yet to be defined by the FCC, to subs with valid waivers or to grandfathered subs.

D* has blanket waivers from the networks to provide HD distants in O&O markets. But those waivers will terminate shortly after the HD locals go live and D* has had time to convert all subs over to the new equipment.

Grandfathered subs are those subs who were Distant digital subs on December 5th, 2004 and met other criteria specified in the renewal of the SHVERA. Those subs will need to be converted also are most likely very few. Many of the original DNS subs gave up DNS when SD locals became available. And it is a case of once you give them up, you don't give them back.

The East coast HD feeds *will* most likely be around longer since there are many more O&O's in the east and it will take more time to get those markets converted.


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> They'll have plenty on the new MPEG4 slots, they'll leave the current MPEG2 how it is for a while.


Bandwidth: Yes, CONUS bandwidth: No!

Can anyone explain how D* will add 5 more HD Sunday Ticket feeds in 2006?

Or why the #56 market (Fresno) is in the Top 36 markets?


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

herdfan said:


> If they *are* providing to most HD subs in the Mountain and Pacific time zones, then they are violating the law. D*, or E* for that matter, can only provide a distant digital signal to subs who are in truly white areas white has yet to be defined by the FCC, to subs with valid waivers or to grandfathered subs.


Currently, 70% of the fine state of Utah cannot get OTA HD of any kind.
Comcast just recently started feeding HD to some of the cable subscribers, but they only cover about 70% of the state (figure pulled out of my butt, just guessing) 
Therefore, DirecTV or Dish Network are their only options, and up till next month, East or West coast HD Network feeds were the only option.
So yes, they are providing much of the Mountain Time Zone with HD network feeds.

phox


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> Currently, 70% of the fine state of Utah cannot get OTA HD of any kind. So yes, they are providing much of the Mountain Time Zone with HD network feeds.


So if I understand correctly, 70% of Utah who can't get OTA rely on the LA D feeds from D*?

Now if you had bothered to read the Next 24 Markets Press Release, you would notice that the Salt Lake City, Utah DMA is listed as one of the markets that will get HD Locals delivered via satellite.

Now I may be wrong, but if memory serves me, the SLC DMA covers 100% of Utah plus 3 counties in Idaho and Nevada and 2 counties in Wyoming.

So those who reside in the SLC DMA will have no use for the LA Mpeg-2 feeds come summer. Problem solved.


----------



## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

Herd

I know you will find this hard to believe, but the Salt Lake City DMA does not cover the whole state of Utah. Nor does it cover the western half of Colorado nor the eastern part of Nevada. Cities are a little further apart out here than in West Virginia! There are even parts of Utah and Nevada that are not in any DMA and get the LA HD channels because they are in a so called white area. In complete accordance with the 2004 SHVERA.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

herdfan said:


> So those who reside in the SLC DMA will have no use for the LA Mpeg-2 feeds come summer. Problem solved.


Problem solved for one of many states relying on the MPEG2 HD feeds.
What about Wyoming, Montana, North and South Dakota?

They aren't even close to being high on the list to be converted over to MPEG4,
so I restate: It will be a while before the MPEG2 feeds are eliminated.
Not to mention the time frame to get everyone switched over to both the new 5lnb dishes and MPEG4 decoders.

If I'm proven wrong, I'll admit it, but for now I'm steadfast.

phox


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Bill Wood said:


> I know you will find this hard to believe, but the Salt Lake City DMA does not cover the whole state of Utah. Nor does it cover the western half of Colorado nor the eastern part of Nevada.


Actually, as far as Analog Television is concerned, it does, through a series of translators (Analog only), very small areas of Colorado/Wyoming/Idaho and Nevada get signals via these translators.
Due to terrain, there are still many "white areas", TV signals have a hard time going through mountains, that rely completely on Satellite or Cable.

HD/Digital television on the other hand, the Wasatch Front (Ogden to Provo/Orem) and St George are the only areas able to recieve OTA HD,
and there are still pockets of these areas that can't get a signal due to terrain.

phox


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Bill Wood said:


> I know you will find this hard to believe, but the Salt Lake City DMA does not cover the whole state of Utah.


Guess again: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/conglomeration/map.php?dma=35#map


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> Due to terrain, there are still many "white areas", TV signals have a hard time going through mountains, that rely completely on Satellite or Cable.


You are 100% correct!

However, since both D* and E* offer SLC locals via satellite, resident are no longer eligible to receive Distant Network Feeds since the local feeds are available via satellite. Once SLC locals are available in HD, there will be no need for the LA feeds in HD.

Its not just me saying this: How about a former AVS HDTV Forum Moderator and current Satelliteguys staff member: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7097219&&#post7097219


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Bill Wood said:


> There are even parts of Utah and Nevada that are not in any DMA and get the LA HD channels because they are in a so called white area. In complete accordance with the 2004 SHVERA.


And those subs will get new MPEG-4 equipment and will be provided most likely the feed from the closest DMA with HD locals.

No one that has LA HD feeds will be without HD feeds. They just may come from a different place in a different form.


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

herdfan said:


> And those subs will get new MPEG-4 equipment and will be provided most likely the feed from the closest DMA with HD locals.
> 
> No one that has LA HD feeds will be without HD feeds. They just may come from a different place in a different form.


I just don't see how D* will convert every HD box to an MPEG-4, especially since they don't even have an HD DVR yet. I wouldn't doubt this is D*'s plan but I just don't see it happenning by September.


----------



## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

Herd - You must be a football fan, wishing so hard to get the space now used by the DirecTV channel 80 through 89 spectrum! I am wishing just as hard to keep that space MPEG2 so I can get more time to use my HR10-250 longer. No matter, what will be will be and neither of us can change that. And touché over the SLC DMA. I should have "guessed" better as the LA DMA runs from San Diego to just south of Reno, NV. ;-)


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

bigpuma said:


> especially since they don't even have an HD DVR yet.


That may be the monkey wrench in the whole plan. It was supposed to be out in the 2Q, but now seems to have been delayed until November.

That simple fact could change everything.


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Bill Wood said:


> Herd - You must be a football fan, wishing so hard to get the space now used by the DirecTV channel 80 through 89 spectrum! I am wishing just as hard to keep that space MPEG2 so I can get more time to use my HR10-250 longer.


Nope, just the odd ones. 

I completely understand you wanting to keep your MPEG-2 feeds and use of your HR10-250. I don't want to give up my TiVos either. Fortunately for me, by Thursday, I will get all 4 nets in HD via OTA.

For those that can't get OTA, the MPEG-2 feeds are huge. And like I have mentioned, D*'s lack of MPEG-4 HD DVR may change the whole scenario.

As for it not being a TiVo HD DVR, sad to say, but D* doesn't care.


----------



## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

herdfan said:


> And those subs will get new MPEG-4 equipment and will be provided most likely the feed from the closest DMA with HD locals.
> 
> No one that has LA HD feeds will be without HD feeds. They just may come from a different place in a different form.


I just don't see DirecTV sending installers out all over the Western half of the US (mostly to rural areas) upgrading those folks getting the LA feeds until they are already focusing on upgrading those areas that those people happen to be in. SO, IMO the LA HD feeds will be around for quite a while.


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> I just don't see DirecTV sending installers out all over the Western half of the US (mostly to rural areas) upgrading those folks getting the LA feeds until they are already focusing on upgrading those areas that those people happen to be in.


Well, they are going to have to upgrade Utah anyway as it is in the SLC DMA. And many of the O&O areas are not O&O for all 4 nets, so for subs wanting all 4 nets, they are going to have to upgrade them quickly.

As for the true white areas and grandfathered HD subs, there just can't be that many out there in the rural areas.

Time will tell.


----------



## lromoda (Aug 11, 2005)

Can't see how they can turn off the MPEG2 until they fix the audio sync on NBC MPEG4. It's so far off its painful. Hasn't anyone but me noticed?


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

lromoda said:


> Can't see how they can turn off the MPEG2 until they fix the audio sync on NBC MPEG4. It's so far off its painful. Hasn't anyone but me noticed?


I imagine there are still very few people that have upgraded to MPEG 4 HD receivers since there is no DVR. Also it is probably limited to your market.


----------



## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

lromoda said:


> Can't see how they can turn off the MPEG2 until they fix the audio sync on NBC MPEG4. It's so far off its painful. Hasn't anyone but me noticed?


Detroit had the same issue. A firmware update fixed it. Have you called D* tech support?


----------



## Bill Wood (May 26, 2004)

Audio sync problems are afflicting most of the MPEG4 HD locals. It seems to be related to carrying Dolby Digital together with the MPEG4 encoding. Lots of complaints on the DirecTV Technical Help Forums.


----------

