# Screwed by TiVo



## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

Last Friday I activated an HD TiVo that I purchased last October when the Lifetime service was available for $399. The person I spoke with requested a credit card # for &#8220;sales tax or other charges&#8221;, knowing full well that I didn&#8217;t owe TiVo a dime I provided my Debit card number. Without my knowledge or without my permission TiVo placed a transaction hold on my bank account for $399 which overdrew my account, I called &#8220;customer service&#8221; and they offered no solution. Today my two HD TiVo&#8217;s with lifetime service are going up on E-bay.

I&#8217;ve been a TiVo subscriber since the Series One came out, if this is how they treat a long time customer it&#8217;s truly pitiful.

Goodbye and good riddance TiVo.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

What's your eBay username?

I also don't get it... you activated last Friday a TiVo HD that was bought last year with lifetime? How could you buy Lifetime last year, but not activate it until now?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

confused?

How did you pay for the TiVo and lifetime in the first place?
When did they ask for a credit card # again?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

MickeS said:


> What's your eBay username?


+1

It sounds like you've left out some crucial details, not to mention passed out your debit card number with no idea of how much or when funds were going to be deducted.

Maybe some personal responsibility in managing your money is in order instead.


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## lofar (Mar 21, 2008)

Yes please share the ebay link...

ps..

Reason #1 to never, ever use a debit card.
Reason #1 why banks LOVE debit cards. The love it when people make mistakes like that or car rentals and hotels place huge holds on cards that end up generating NSF fees for them.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I also would like the ebay listing. Why would you give them a debit instead of credit card number? You can always dispute the credit card charge.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

Was Tivo good in bed? With the ability to pause, rewind, ff, and replay, I'd imagine that make for a heck of a romp!


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I also would like the ebay listing. Why would you give them a debit instead of credit card number? You can always dispute the credit card charge.


just like you can dispute a debit charge.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Except for the charge is legit, it sounds like the poster bought lifetime and was charged for it - hopefully they'll clarify why the devil they thought that they would be given lifetime for free.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> +1
> 
> It sounds like you've left out some crucial details, not to mention passed out your debit card number with no idea of how much or when funds were going to be deducted.
> 
> Maybe some personal responsibility in managing your money is in order instead.


I left out no details, what do you think I skipped? I currently own a Series 3 with lifetime, two Series 2s that I'm going to sell.

Personal responsibility? You know nothing about me. I was told by the TiVo rep that the charge would be just in case there was any sales tax due, I gave my debit card in good faith and was charged $399 for absolutely nothing.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I also would like the ebay listing. Why would you give them a debit instead of credit card number? You can always dispute the credit card charge.


I will be glad to let you know when I post it, special price for you $1,500.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

MickeS said:


> What's your eBay username?
> 
> I also don't get it... you activated last Friday a TiVo HD that was bought last year with lifetime? How could you buy Lifetime last year, but not activate it until now?


I already own a Series 3 (with lifetime) and had no immediate need until I bought a LCD for the bedroom.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> confused?
> 
> How did you pay for the TiVo and lifetime in the first place?
> When did they ask for a credit card # again?[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

you pick your plan when you activate the box. if you wanted to activate a box with lifetime, then there's nothing wrong with a $399 charge.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

StStephen said:


> I left out no details, what do you think I skipped? I currently own a Series 3 with lifetime, two Series 2s that I'm going to sell.
> 
> Personal responsibility? You know nothing about me. I was told by the TiVo rep that the charge would be just in case there was any sales tax due, I gave my debit card in good faith and was charged $399 for absolutely nothing.


How about all the details you posted in your responses so that we could have the full story?

We're still missing out - what did you pay in October? If you paid for lifetime in October, then it was already activated, regardless of it you were using it or not. If you didn't, well, then you should have expected to pay for it. You can't have honestly expected to get lifetime for free, tight?

And you're right - I don't know much about you, but I know enough that you pass out your debit card info without knowing what it's going to be used for - doesn't sound all that responsible to me. Sorry if you find that offensive.


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## wdpower (May 22, 2005)

I'm in a similar boat, I bought an HD Tivo and a LT subscription. I activated on line and the system still required a CC. I know have a pending charge of $399.00 since last Friday. Just waiting to see if it goes legit or comes off like it should.

-Bill


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

GoHokies! said:


> And you're right - I don't know much about you, but I know enough that you pass out your debit card info without knowing what it's going to be used for - doesn't sound all that responsible to me. Sorry if you find that offensive.


that could apply to just about anything you order over the phone - I would be PO'ed as well if I gave my info to a phone CSR and they didn't charge me as they said they would.

Now if you want to argue abouot debit/credit that's another story all together.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

StStephen said:


> ZeoTiVo said:
> 
> 
> > confused?
> ...


so basically you paid for a S3 in October. Did you pay for lifetime at the same time in October?

in which Month did the TiVo rep ask for a card number for sales tax?

you do not write very clearly and use run on sentences that cloud the timeline.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wdpower said:


> I'm in a similar boat, I bought an HD Tivo and a LT subscription. I activated on line and the system still required a CC. I know have a pending charge of $399.00 since last Friday. Just waiting to see if it goes legit or comes off like it should.
> 
> -Bill


How much did you pay at the time of purchase? around 700$?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

StStephen said:


> Last Friday I activated an HD TiVo that I purchased last October when the Lifetime service was available for $399. The person I spoke with requested a credit card # for sales tax or other charges, knowing full well that I didnt owe TiVo a dime I provided my Debit card number. Without my knowledge or without my permission TiVo placed a transaction hold on my bank account for $399 which overdrew my account, I called customer service and they offered no solution. Today my two HD TiVos with lifetime service are going up on E-bay.
> 
> Ive been a TiVo subscriber since the Series One came out, if this is how they treat a long time customer its truly pitiful.
> 
> Goodbye and good riddance TiVo.


When you buy the Tivo you are just paying for the box. When you activate it is when the $399 charge is applied for the lifetime service.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Jebberwocky! said:


> that could apply to just about anything you order over the phone - I would be PO'ed as well if I gave my info to a phone CSR and they didn't charge me as they said they would.
> 
> Now if you want to argue abouot debit/credit that's another story all together.


True - the real thrust of may statement was that if the OP hadn't paid for the service, they were foolish to blindly trust that they weren't going to be charged for it regardless of what the CSR said.

Real life example - I called FiOS "customer (dis)service" last Friday to follow up with a billing issue. While on the phone I mentioned that I hadn't seen a bill in quite a while, and wanted to know if there was an outstanding balance and if there was any payment due. The CSR told me "Nope! Everything's good!", even when pressed he stuck to his guns. I said OK, and looked at the extra money I had in the bank, and said "nah, I'll hold on to it, I know that they're going to change their tune". Sure enough, Monday's mail not only brings a bill for $450 and a second notice that if they didn't receive their past due balance of $300 in 7 days, I would be cut off. Certainly glad that I trusted my gut and saved the money for when Verizon decided when they wanted the money I owed them.

Now, if the OP paid Tivo for the box + $399 for the service in October and this charge was erroneous, I'll gladly retract that part of my statement.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

StStephen said:


> I already own a Series 3 (with lifetime) and had no immediate need until I bought a LCD for the bedroom.


So you called in now to purchase Lifetime? You're still being very unclear here.

Let us know when you have the eBay listing up.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

suggestion.......

For any non-recurring charges, I often use a virtual card number from my credi card company. It does not have my normal card number, yet maps to my account, and is only good for 30 days.

I do that all the time now, especially "one and done" deals/websites/etc......


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Jebberwocky! said:


> just like you can dispute a debit charge.


Oh ok, I don't have a debit card. At least with a CC you don't have to worry about overdraft on your account. The way the OP stated it was that there was an advantage to using debit vs credit, I'd think you'd be safer using credit since they don't have direct access to your money.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

GoHokies! said:


> Now, if the OP paid Tivo for the box + $399 for the service in October and this charge was erroneous, I'll gladly retract that part of my statement.


This is what I don't understand either. Was the OP double-billed for the sub or does he just not understand how the process works?


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> How about all the details you posted in your responses so that we could have the full story?
> 
> We're still missing out - what did you pay in October? If you paid for lifetime in October, then it was already activated, regardless of it you were using it or not. If you didn't, well, then you should have expected to pay for it. You can't have honestly expected to get lifetime for free, tight?
> 
> And you're right - I don't know much about you, but I know enough that you pass out your debit card info without knowing what it's going to be used for - doesn't sound all that responsible to me. Sorry if you find that offensive.


In October I purchased and PAID FOR a HD TiVo and lifetime service. The lifetime is coupled with with the box itself and wasn't activated until I called TiVo last week.

I did not pass out my debit card without knowing what it was going to be used for, if you had read my previous posts I was clearly told that my card number would be used "just in case there is sales tax or something" if sales tax equals $399 on a $399 product then I'm living in the wrong state.

I give you a little information about myself and then you can decide if I'm responsible or not, I own two homes, one is a rental and the other is my primary residence here in Lake Mary, both are mortgage free, I fully retired on my investments at 45 and have enjoyed being debt free for a number of years. That sentiment is why I used my debit card.

Bottom line is that TiVo screwed up, blindly defending their mistake is neither fair nor correct.

BTW, I'm going to see the favorite son of your home state on Saturday night


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

StStephen said:


> In October I purchased and PAID FOR a HD TiVo and lifetime service. The lifetime is coupled with with the box itself and wasn't activated until I called TiVo last week.


These two sentences do not agree with each other. If you purchase any TiVo box from tivo.com it comes pre-activated. There is no way to buy a box from them and activate later.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

PrincetonTech said:


> When you buy the Tivo you are just paying for the box. When you activate it is when the $399 charge is applied for the lifetime service.


No you are wrong, it was a package deal, I paid around $700, which included both the box and lifetime service.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

StStephen said:


> I left out no details, what do you think I skipped? I currently own a Series 3 with lifetime, two Series 2s that I'm going to sell...


In your original post you said you'd be putting two HD TiVos with Lifetime up for sale on eBay.

*"Today my two HD TiVo's with lifetime service are going up on E-bay."*

You're changing your story.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

rainwater said:


> These two sentences do not agree with each other. If you purchase any TiVo box from tivo.com it comes pre-activated. There is no way to buy a box from them and activate later.


I guess I bought it in November.

Sure there is, I did it last Friday. For your edification here is a copy of my invoice:

Order Number Status Order Date Qty Item Description Price Item Total
TS25086034 Order Shipped November 21,2007 1 TiVo Product Lifetime Service gift subsc
$399.00 $399.00
TS25086034 Order Shipped November 21,2007 1 180-hr TiVo HD DVR
$299.99 $299.99
TS25086034 Order Shipped November 21,2007 1 TiVo branded wireless G adapter (AG0100)
$0.00 $0.00
Shipping Total $0.00
Tax $19.50
Order Total $718.49


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jkalnin said:


> Was Tivo good in bed? With the ability to pause, rewind, ff, and replay, I'd imagine that make for a heck of a romp!


At my age I find the 30sec skip useful. 

Maybe he let 6 months go by without using the TiVo and "had" to re-buy the service.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

gastrof said:


> In your original post you said you'd be putting two HD TiVos with Lifetime up for sale on eBay.
> 
> *"Today my two HD TiVos with lifetime service are going up on E-bay."*
> 
> You're changing your story.


Dude, I just found about TiVo's screw up today, give me some time.


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so basically you paid for a S3 in October. Did you pay for lifetime at the same time in October?
> 
> in which Month did the TiVo rep ask for a card number for sales tax?
> 
> you do not write very clearly and use run on sentences that cloud the timeline.


Why the personal attacks? I guess you've driven me away.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Based on your receipt, your box was already "activated" with the Lifetime service and there was no need for you to call in again (what prompted that?).

Sounds like the support rep you spoke to was confused and accidentally charged you for Lifetime again.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

StStephen said:


> I guess I bought it in November.
> 
> Sure there is, I did it last Friday. For your edification here is a copy of my invoice:
> 
> ...


Ah, that makes more sense, it was a gift subscription that you called in to activate now?

So did they think you were buying a new Lifetime sub now then? It seems like a mistake in that case... not sure how selling your paid for TiVos would do anything?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

StStephen said:


> I guess I bought it in November.
> 
> Sure there is, I did it last Friday. For your edification here is a copy of my invoice:
> 
> ...


OK tell us why you had to call TiVo in the first place if you had a gift card, all you needed to do is activate the TiVo on the TiVo web sight and enter the gift card number..any tax would have been charged when you purchased the package in the first place (and it was). I have activated many TiVos using gift cards and no phone call is needed so no CSR screw-up is possible.


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

Paging TiVoJerry..... Please help StStephen...We want him remain his love for TiVo.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

StStephen said:


> Why the personal attacks? I guess you've driven me away.


 The poster to whom you were replying was not attacking you. Clearly worded posts will help the readers to understand and appreciate your situation.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

StStephen said:


> Why the personal attacks? I guess you've driven me away.


yes, I was just trying to help you understand why we are not following what problem you are having.

Ask anyone here, I am far from the grammar police ranks and indeed am hiding out from them as I type. 

With all the investment work that you have done, surely mistakes have happened. What truly matters is what TiVo does when you call back to get it cleared up.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

Just for the record, I got the $700 deal as well, which came with the lifetime gift card. When I went to the site to activate it it shows that you need to enter a CC# and it appearrs like you will be chared $400 again. This freaked me out so I called Tivo and spoke to a rep. She assured me that I wouldn't be charged so I went back online and did what it asked. At the end on the process you see that the $400 for lifetime is removed by a $400 gift card credit. 

The whole activation process is overly confusing if you ask me. The site makes it look like you have to pay for the lifetime even though you don't.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes, I was just trying to help you understand why we are not following what problem you are having.
> 
> Ask anyone here, I am far from the grammar police ranks and indeed am hiding out from them as I type.
> 
> With all the investment work that you have done, surely mistakes have happened. What truly matters is what TiVo does when you call back to get it cleared up.


Believe me, when Zeo attacks, you´ll _*know *_it.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

StStephen said:


> In October I purchased and PAID FOR a HD TiVo and lifetime service. The lifetime is coupled with with the box itself and wasn't activated until I called TiVo last week.


You can't have it both ways - if the lifetime is coupled to the box, it's activated and no call is needed. If the gift card isn't activated, then it isn't coupled to anything.



> I did not pass out my debit card without knowing what it was going to be used for, if you had read my previous posts I was clearly told that my card number would be used "just in case there is sales tax or something" if sales tax equals $399 on a $399 product then I'm living in the wrong state.


Either Tivo screwed up or you misunderstood the CSR, it sounds like the former here - sometimes people make honest mistakes. Giving us the full story up front would have been a lot easier. When you called customer support did you actually try to talk to a supervisor and get some resolution? If you had come here asking for help without making us play 20 questions, a number of people probably would have pointed you in the direction of TivoStephen, and you'd be well on your way to having things made right.


> I give you a little information about myself and then you can decide if I'm responsible or not, I own two homes, one is a rental and the other is my primary residence here in Lake Mary, both are mortgage free, I fully retired on my investments at 45 and have enjoyed being debt free for a number of years. That sentiment is why I used my debit card.


 That's nice, would you like a gold star? I'm not sure what this has to do with your Tivo's. It is possible to use a credit card and pay it off every month and not go further into debt, using a debit card really isn't necessary (and as you learned not real responsible). A credit card has plenty of advantages, as does overdraft protection - there are plenty of measures available to avoid the damages you suffered when a company makes a mistake that you didn't avail yourself of. (I'll bet you do next time!) Putting out your debit card without using these basic protections sounds pretty darned irresponsible to me.



> Bottom line is that TiVo screwed up, blindly defending their mistake is neither fair nor correct.


Bottom line is you come in here and post half a story with no details and expect people to believe you. After 2 pages of teasing out details, we can finally see what happened.



> BTW, I'm going to see the favorite son of your home state on Saturday night


Amusing that you criticize me for assuming that I know you, and then turn around and do the exact same thing back (Hint: Virginia Tech accepts out of state students) 



lessd said:


> OK tell us why you had to call TiVo in the first place if you had a gift card, all you needed to do is activate the TiVo on the TiVo web sight and enter the gift card number..any tax would have been charged when you purchased the package in the first place (and it was). I have activated many TiVos using gift cards and no phone call is needed so no CSR screw-up is possible.


+1



jkalnin said:


> The whole activation process is overly confusing if you ask me. The site makes it look like you have to pay for the lifetime even though you don't.


Technically you do have to pay for lifetime - if you think about the fact that it's a _gift card_, you're paying for the lifetime with the gift card, just like you'd make a purchase anywhere else.



HDTiVo said:


> Believe me, when Zeo attacks, you´ll _*know *_it.


I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not, but I was amused.


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## MANOWAR© (Mar 6, 2005)

I had something similar happen when I got my S2. I got the box AND a gift subscription for lifetime service for my birthday. When I went to activate the lifetime service they told me it was coming up invalid but it was probably an error and they would need a CC# at the time to active my TiVo. I gave it to them and they never credited me for the lifetime so my sister in law contested it with her cc company and got her money back. According to her CC company TiVo did that to a lot of people. :down:


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Believe me, when Zeo attacks, you´ll _*know *_it.











but I am all about the http://www.tribalhugs.net/ these days


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## wdpower (May 22, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> How much did you pay at the time of purchase? around 700$?


I paid the 698 blue moon special. Got a certificate for the Lifetime subscription. The system accepted it and is still pending the 399.

Guess I'll see what happens.


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## wdpower (May 22, 2005)

Morning all. I just checked with my bank and I see the 399 has been released back into my account. Still don't know what that was all about.

-Bill


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## StStephen (Sep 10, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> You can't have it both ways - if the lifetime is coupled to the box, it's activated and no call is needed. If the gift card isn't activated, then it isn't coupled to anything.
> 
> Either Tivo screwed up or you misunderstood the CSR, it sounds like the former here - sometimes people make honest mistakes. Giving us the full story up front would have been a lot easier. When you called customer support did you actually try to talk to a supervisor and get some resolution? If you had come here asking for help without making us play 20 questions, a number of people probably would have pointed you in the direction of TivoStephen, and you'd be well on your way to having things made right.
> That's nice, would you like a gold star? I'm not sure what this has to do with your Tivo's. It is possible to use a credit card and pay it off every month and not go further into debt, using a debit card really isn't necessary (and as you learned not real responsible). A credit card has plenty of advantages, as does overdraft protection - there are plenty of measures available to avoid the damages you suffered when a company makes a mistake that you didn't avail yourself of. (I'll bet you do next time!) Putting out your debit card without using these basic protections sounds pretty darned irresponsible to me.
> ...


You are an idiot, I have nothing but contempt for you and you lack of reasoning. Last night I received a phone call from a TiVo manager named Dana, she apologized profusely for TiVos mistake, she had read this thread and pointed out that you, in particular, were completely wrong, it was not my mistake. I told her that I had decided not to sell my TiVos because my wife is just too big a fan but would never buy another TiVo product, when these two go, so will I.

Ive developed and sold three businesses, a person with your lack of depth wouldnt have lasted one day in my employ. I have never been attacked so personally while a member of this community and will never be attacked again; I have severed ties and will not return. Congratulations, Im sure you are very pleased.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

StStephen said:


> Last night I received a phone call from a TiVo manager named Dana, she apologized profusely for TiVos mistake,


so the right people at TiVo, inc. got hold of this problem, corrected it and apologized profusely for the mistake. Still you will never use a TiVo product again because of this one mistake? Is your threshold that low in all your dealings?


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

*StStephen* - someone with skin as thin as yours should avoid the internet altogether. Surprise, anonymous people may say things you don't like, welcome to the web!


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

I find it ridiculous how some people in this "community" attack without knowing the details. Clearly they were wrong in this case. Will they apologize?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jkalnin said:


> *StStephen* - someone with skin as thin as yours should avoid the internet altogether. Surprise, anonymous people may say things you don't like, welcome to the web!


OP, I won´t say _avoid _because it would be a shame to let these creeps lose TiVo more business.

Congratulations to TiVo for acting on this in a swift and professional manner, and keeping the customer.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wdpower said:


> Morning all. I just checked with my bank and I see the 399 has been released back into my account. Still don't know what that was all about.
> 
> -Bill


looks like TiVo is correcting all this on the backend


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so the right people at TiVo, inc. got hold of this problem, corrected it and apologized profusely for the mistake. Still you will never use a TiVo product again because of this one mistake? Is your threshold that low in all your dealings?


I agree with this post completely. StStephen, we get a lot of trolls around here that just come in and bash Tivo often because of their own mistakes or stupidity. When you failed to give us a better understanding of your situation, it was assumed that you were another of those trolls just here to make trouble. Once your full story finally came out, it became clear it was Tivo's mistake. If you would have said all of that in your first few posts, you would have received a much better reception.

I think you are really overreacting and not being rational in your decision to give up on Tivo. You obviously enjoy the product being that you have several of them with Lifetime subs on them. Why would you allow one mistake that was corrected and apologized for, push you to the point you are at??


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

StStephen said:


> I give you a little information about myself and then you can decide if I'm responsible or not, I own two homes, one is a rental and the other is my primary residence here in Lake Mary, both are mortgage free, I fully retired on my investments at 45 and have enjoyed being debt free for a number of years. That sentiment is why I used my debit card.


You are to be congratulated sir, but one can't help but wonder how you achieved such success in view of the "bull in a china shop" approach to complaining that you have taken here. 

Example: "Screwed by Tivo"! Very mature...


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

StStephen said:


> Last night I received a phone call from a TiVo manager named Dana, she apologized profusely for TiVos mistake, she had read this thread and *pointed out that you, in particular, were completely wrong,* it was not my mistake.


That's awesome, I'm famous at Tivo!

St Stephen, I'm glad you got your problem worked out - if you could see through your rage enough, I allowed that it was probably a Tivo mistake in my last post. Also, like I said in the last post, if you had come here and told the full story up front, then we all probably would have agreed with you in the first place.

No apologizes here - not to someone that sees fit to attack me in that fashion.


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## RedBeard1701 (Apr 8, 2008)

I'm glad he fixed his problems and TiVo *did* admit to the screw up and fixed it.

But....

When someone dismisses the possiblility that *they* screwed up by pointing out that they are much too smart and successful to have made a mistake, well that sort of weakens their argument right off the bat unnecessarily doesn't it?

Everyone loves the downfall of a braggart whether he is or he just appeared to be by his post. I'm not saying he is but the tone kind of gave that air about him.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I'm glad the mistake was corrected.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ilh said:


> I find it ridiculous how some people in this "community" attack without knowing the details. Clearly they were wrong in this case. Will they apologize?


You're talking about the OP, right?


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

No.


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

It still baffles me how the OP has gone out of his way to say he owns two houses mortgage free, has no debt, and has developed three businesses that he's sold. Yet he restricts himself to a daily spending limit of $500 (or whatever it is) by using a debit card only. As someone mentioned before, you do realize you can pay a credit card off month to month and still be debt free dont you? If you cant keep a credit card without paying it off every month then I believe everything you've fed us has been a lie. If you had used a credit card as most people would have in the first place this would never have been an issue.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

brettatk said:


> It still baffles me how the OP has gone out of his way to say he owns two houses mortgage free, has no debt, and has developed three businesses that he's sold.


Everyone's a success on the Internets.


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## robostock (Feb 8, 2008)

StStephen said:


> Goodbye and good riddance TiVo.


... yeah.



StStephen said:


> I have severed ties and will not return. Congratulations, Im sure you are very pleased.


... maybe.



StStephen said:


> I told her that I had decided not to sell my TiVos because my wife is just too big a fan but would never buy another TiVo product, when these two go, so will I..


Stand by your convictions sir! Get rid of TiVo! You have been very successful in your business life and you are financially secure. Teach them a lesson that their shoddy business practice and lousy customer service will not be tolerated. As a previous business owner you understand that treating and serving the customer is the number one priority. I'm sure your wife will understand that you are a man who stands by his convictions and beliefs and she too will support you.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> That's awesome, I'm famous at Tivo!


ummm, that would be infamous 


> St Stephen, I'm glad you got your problem worked out - if you could see through your rage enough, I allowed that it was probably a Tivo mistake in my last post.


I am still trying to work out how Dana from TiVo identified the OP in this thread?? Is Saint his legal first name


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ummm, that would be infamous
> 
> I am still trying to work out how Dana from TiVo identified the OP in this thread?? Is Saint his legal first name


well there was only one thread like this - not hard to put 2 and 2 together


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## MaryT (Dec 3, 2001)

He posted his Tivo service number


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

StStephen said:


> Last night I received a phone call from a TiVo manager named Dana, she apologized profusely for TiVos mistake, she had read this thread


Hey....the above Quote is the lesson learned for the rest of us in the TivoCommunity. Make a snarky enough title for a thread, we may get someone at Tivo to call us and fix it .

Let me try:
Title: "TIVO SUCKS DOO!"
Body: "Why do Amazon purchased movies have constant vertical shake on my Tivo AT&T S2"?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MaryT said:


> He posted his Tivo service number


oh yah - I forgot he posted his invoice in the thread


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am still trying to work out how Dana from TiVo identified the OP in this thread?? Is Saint his legal first name


Are you also still trying to figure out that he ended up keeping the TiVo? 



ZeoTiVo said:


> so the right people at TiVo, inc. got hold of this problem, corrected it and apologized profusely for the mistake. Still you will never use a TiVo product again because of this one mistake? Is your threshold that low in all your dealings?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Are you also still trying to figure out that he ended up keeping the TiVo?


That's a shocker.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Are you also still trying to figure out that he ended up keeping the TiVo?


Ah, I was just responding to his words - I knew from the get go he was not really gonna give up using TiVo over a silly billing error, assuming it got corrected


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I knew from the get go he was not really gonna give up using TiVo over a silly billing error


... or some tough forum treatment....


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> ... or some tough forum treatment....


well for me, all I did was try and figure out the facts via question and point out that his run on sentence confused the timeline. I also assumed from the get go that TiVo CSR did charge him again for lifetime from the sound of things but did not want to jump to conclusions without clarifying first.


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## wdpower (May 22, 2005)

It probably wasn't that they "charged" him but took his card and held his 399 like they did for mine till the gift certificate fully processed.

But my real question is who keeps less than 399 in there checking account? I mean god forbid there was an emergency and you needed to use your debit card you'd have to transfer money or something. I live from check to check and I try to keep at least a grand in there as a buffer. But that's my to cents.

-Bill


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

wdpower said:


> But my real question is who keeps less than 399 in there checking account? I mean god forbid there was an emergency and you needed to use your debit card you'd have to transfer money or something. I live from check to check and I try to keep at least a grand in there as a buffer. But that's my to cents.
> 
> -Bill


That's not the problem. Most debit cards only allow you withdraw a certain amount (say $400) a day. Well it looks like Tivo had this $399 on hold and then he made another transaction overdrawing his account for that day. It doesnt mean he only had $399 in there. I understand that he did not know they would be placing $399 on hold on his card, but I would have still used a credit card in this instance. It would have saved a lot of hassle.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

Stu_Bee commented:
> _Hey....the above Quote is the lesson learned for the rest of us in the TivoCommunity. Make a snarky enough title for a thread, we may get someone at Tivo to call us and fix it._ <

Completely untrue, and uncalled for. Getting upset when something goes wrong isn't unreasonable... it's how you respond to it. Remaining calm and polite usually helps. After all, as great as the folks at TiVo are, they're still human beings, and may make mistakes from time to time. Let them know, and give them an opportunity to address it, before you start an online flamefest. If the original CSR couldn't resolve it, the OP should have escalated it to a Supervisor.

How can I be so sure that these public attacks aren't necessary to get their attention? Because I myself had a problem with a $200 rebate being declined, so I simply reached out via e-mail to TiVo, calmly and clearly explaining the problem. The *very same night* I had a personal call (on my answering machine, unfortunately) from a manager at TiVo named Amy, who could not have been more cordial or professional. She rectified the problem immediately, and apologized for any anxiety I may have experienced. I was extremely impressed at the commitment to QoS she demonstrated, and had a big smile on my face. She also expedited the rebate processing, and I had my check in hand within a week or so.

In my book, _TiVo has some of the best people in the business_, and will go "above and beyond" when given a chance to do so. If other companies did half as well, life would be a lot less frustrating for all of us.

- Tim


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

I still don't get the OP's issue. The whole activation timeline makes no sense to me (and is probably why Tivo made whatever mistake they made - not sure I believe that one either).

And I totally don't get how he could have so much money, and yet bounce a check/debit for $399. Don't most people (with any sort of money) at least have overdraft protection? 

Unless he's "retired" on welfare or something.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> I still don't get the OP's issue. The whole activation timeline makes no sense to me (and is probably why Tivo made whatever mistake they made - not sure I believe that one either).
> 
> And I totally don't get how he could have so much money, and yet bounce a check/debit for $399. Don't most people (with any sort of money) at least have overdraft protection?
> 
> Unless he's "retired" on welfare or something.


For most people you are correct, but the OP said that he wants to be debt free at all times, owns two homes with no mortgage no credit cards..that his prerogative to live that way, I run all my expenses through my credit card but have never paid any interest (I taught my kids the same thing) and some people keep a big debt on their credit cards and pay all that interest (over 50% do that) so one could ask why would one (with money) keep less that $1000 in any account or why would one pay big interest on credit cards ? The OP by being debt free may try to make the most use of his money and a checking account does not pay much interest, if any, but nobody should have any money taken from them that they don't know about in advance. I do know that car rental co hold $500 on you credit card when you rent without telling you, (don't know what happens with a debt card) if you return the car in good shape you would never know unless you charged up to your credit limit, then watch out.


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## xdroccax (Feb 26, 2006)

I just got through reading all the posts, and all i can say is *you people suck!* Well, just those that know who they are. And for those still defending Tivo, google "stockholm syndrome".

The facts are the OP (heated at the time) stated Tivo screwed up, gave IMO enough information in his orginal post (more details in later posts), was confirmed by at least another member in a similiar situation, and STILL you attack the OP! First, on his personal responsibily-BS, then has character, and finally his financial situation. Not everyone keeps over $400 in their checking. I personally keep around $50 at all times with an overdraft going into a $50 savings account. My bill pay is setup to transfer exact funds into my checking prior to making a payment. Call me paranoid, but my money is MY MONEY. Anyone or company who "steals" it or tries to, honest mistake or not, will have a very aggressive response from me.

Another point I'd like to stir up.  
It seems everyone is calling this a Tivo "mistake", but let me paint another picture. *I have no proof this is, so you can treat this as fiction.* What if, Tivo does this "mistake" more often then they care to admit. The seized fulls can be easiely used by Tivo to purchase/sell short term (24 or 48 hour) stocks and/or funds; some may call this day trading. Any profit (even the smallest like $1) would be pure profit as the purchase cash was not theirs in the first place. So if 10 activations were held for 48 hours, then $4k (10*400) could be used to purchase ~500 shares of (hhmm) TIVO at $8/share for 1-2 days, and the symbol raises $.25. The profit would be $125 (less ~$25 fees). That would almost equal to having a 1-year sub but without having to provide any services for it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

xdroccax said:


> It seems everyone is calling this a Tivo "mistake", but let me paint another picture. *I have no proof this is, so you can treat this as fiction.* What if, Tivo does this "mistake" more often then they care to admit. The seized fulls can be easiely used by Tivo to purchase/sell short term (24 or 48 hour) stocks and/or funds; some may call this day trading. Any profit (even the smallest like $1) would be pure profit as the purchase cash was not theirs in the first place. So if 10 activations were held for 48 hours, then $4k (10*400) could be used to purchase ~500 shares of (hhmm) TIVO at $8/share for 1-2 days, and the symbol raises $.25. The profit would be $125 (less ~$25 fees). That would almost equal to having a 1-year sub but without having to provide any services for it.


umm, because it would be highly unethical and most likely illegal. I knew a Fnancial Officer in a company I used to work for fire a friend of mine. Turns out the friend knew the officer was doing something along these lines and the company had the officer resign ahead of being fired or the company having to be charged with financial misconduct. The friend was hired back to replace the officer.

It wa a mistake by TiVo and mistakes happen. Maybe they have a bad process and the mistake happens far too often. The process should of course be fixed.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Did the financial officer resign for "personal reasons?"



xdroccax said:


> *you people suck!* Well, just those that know who they are.


I often find myself feeling I am one of the few people around here who knows who I am.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

lessd said:


> For most people you are correct, but the OP said that he wants to be debt free at all times, owns two homes with no mortgage no credit cards..that his prerogative to live that way, I run all my expenses through my credit card but have never paid any interest (I taught my kids the same thing) and some people keep a big debt on their credit cards and pay all that interest (over 50% do that) so one could ask why would one (with money) keep less that $1000 in any account or why would one pay big interest on credit cards ? The OP by being debt free may try to make the most use of his money and a checking account does not pay much interest, if any, but nobody should have any money taken from them that they don't know about in advance. I do know that car rental co hold $500 on you credit card when you rent without telling you, (don't know what happens with a debt card) if you return the car in good shape you would never know unless you charged up to your credit limit, then watch out.


Huh? That's what "overdraft protection" is for. Keep checking low, draw from other interest bearing accounts as needed.

And credit cards can be used by debt-free people, just pay them off every month. And they have lots of addiitional uses, like protecting you when someone makes an incorrect charge (like the OP is claiming).

Please... this guy has some truth in his web of information, but a lot of lies as well. It's impossible to tell where each one is, so best to ignore the entire thing.


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## GuidoTKP (Feb 22, 2004)

xdroccax said:


> I just got through reading all the posts, and all i can say is *you people suck!* Well, just those that know who they are. And for those still defending Tivo, google "stockholm syndrome".
> 
> The facts are the OP (heated at the time) stated Tivo screwed up, gave IMO enough information in his orginal post (more details in later posts), was confirmed by at least another member in a similiar situation, and STILL you attack the OP! First, on his personal responsibily-BS, then has character, and finally his financial situation. Not everyone keeps over $400 in their checking. I personally keep around $50 at all times with an overdraft going into a $50 savings account. My bill pay is setup to transfer exact funds into my checking prior to making a payment. Call me paranoid, but my money is MY MONEY. Anyone or company who "steals" it or tries to, honest mistake or not, will have a very aggressive response from me.
> 
> ...


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

brettatk said:


> That's not the problem. Most debit cards only allow you withdraw a certain amount (say $400) a day. Well it looks like Tivo had this $399 on hold and then he made another transaction overdrawing his account for that day. It doesnt mean he only had $399 in there. I understand that he did not know they would be placing $399 on hold on his card, but I would have still used a credit card in this instance. It would have saved a lot of hassle.


You can also call your bank and have them release additional funds as well. I have done that several times with my bank, when I purchased my Plasma TV, my new PC, and other items around my house.

I simply called the bank when i found out that the card was declined and asked them to up the limit for that day only, and within 5 minutes, I was leaving the store with the items.

for the record, my bank has a $500 limit, and very rarely do I ever spend more than $500 in a day, but when I know I am potentially going to, I place a quick call to my bank and have them up the limit to more than I actually need to be safe.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> Huh? That's what "overdraft protection" is for. Keep checking low, draw from other interest bearing accounts as needed.
> 
> And credit cards can be used by debt-free people, just pay them off every month. And they have lots of addiitional uses, like protecting you when someone makes an incorrect charge (like the OP is claiming).
> 
> Please... this guy has some truth in his web of information, but a lot of lies as well. It's impossible to tell where each one is, so best to ignore the entire thing.


That what i do (overdraft protection) but some reasonable people don't like doing that for their own reasons, and credit cards are a debt, payed on time or not (I pay on time). Your credit record will show how much credit card DEBT you have at the time your credit report is pulled, it will also show that you have made payments on time (if you did) but it will not show that you always, in the past, paid your credit card in full, because the debt you have now you do not have to pay in full in the future. I also use credit cards for some of the reasons you just gave, but other reasonable people may not want to do that, again for their own personal reasons. Nobody should be criticised for NOT using credit cards. The OP had a problem because he was not using a credit card, a problem he would not have had if he used a credit card, but the problem was still TiVos and the OP does not have to go to credit cards to cover for that type of error, but these errors happen and hence i use credit cards so as not to be concerned when this type of error happens. (There are many other good reasons to use a credit card also)


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

lessd said:


> That what i do (overdraft protection) but some reasonable people don't like doing that for their own reasons, and credit cards are a debt, payed on time or not (I pay on time). Your credit record will show how much credit card DEBT you have at the time your credit report is pulled, it will also show that you have made payments on time (if you did) but it will not show that you always, in the past, paid your credit card in full, because the debt you have now you do not have to pay in full in the future. I also use credit cards for some of the reasons you just gave, but other reasonable people may not want to do that, again for their own personal reasons. Nobody should be criticised for NOT using credit cards. The OP had a problem because he was not using a credit card, a problem he would not have had if he used a credit card, but the problem was still TiVos and the OP does not have to go to credit cards to cover for that type of error, but these errors happen and hence i use credit cards so as not to be concerned when this type of error happens. (There are many other good reasons to use a credit card also)


Well, the OPs problem was giving a check-card to someone without enough money to cover a mistake. If you're going to use a check-card, instead of a debit-card, you can't expect everyone to be perfect. So if a mistake happens, it's entirely your fault if you get hit with an overdraft fee.

The whole thing stinks of bizarre behavior at best, and lots of colorful revisionist storytelling most likely.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> Well, the OPs problem was giving a check-card to someone without enough money to cover a mistake. If you're going to use a check-card, instead of a debit-card, you can't expect everyone to be perfect. So if a mistake happens, it's entirely your fault if you get hit with an overdraft fee.
> 
> The whole thing stinks of bizarre behavior at best, and lots of colorful revisionist storytelling most likely.


What size mistake should one have money for..$400 $4,000 $40,000, I think most of us would have a problem with a $40,000 mistake, even with a credit card.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

lessd said:


> What size mistake should one have money for..$400 $4,000 $40,000, I think most of us would have a problem with a $40,000 mistake, even with a credit card.


We're talking $400 ($399). I think most of us could handle a $400 mistake.

Let's keep it in reality here.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, if you pay off your cc's each month in full, then you

incur no interest charges
get free float on your mnney, which indirectly earns you extra interest, especially if you keep your checking in one of the high interest earning banks like ING Direct or EverBank, Schwab checking, or Etrade checking, etc
You earn 1-5% cash back rewards on your money
You may get better purchase protection than a debit card will give you

To me, it's a no-brainer to use credit cards. I put everything I can through them.


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## robostock (Feb 8, 2008)

xdroccax said:


> I just got through reading all the posts, and all i can say is *you people suck!* Well, just those that know who they are. And for those still defending Tivo, google "stockholm syndrome".


Now that's a great way to start off a rebuttal! Tell your target group they suck! 

I've re-read the OP's first post and it seemed liked a very heated rant. Not looking for help but rather to attack TiVo for his situation. I wouldn't call it stockholm syndrome but when someone attacks something you value people will want you to clarify and expand on your attack.

I found the users on this forum to be exceptional in their willingingness to help newbies like me when I have had any problems or questions. Are Tivo users passionate about their TiVo's? Most definitely, some are. Lemmings? No. Just people who want to get the most out of their product. I think most companies would love to have a following like TiVo's.

IMO a person that rants on that he ended his post by saying "Goodbye and good riddance TiVo" and in later post states that he going to stay with TiVo because his wife loves it, is a BA to me.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

VideoGrabber said:


> Stu_Bee commented:
> > _Hey....the above Quote is the lesson learned for the rest of us in the TivoCommunity. Make a snarky enough title for a thread, we may get someone at Tivo to call us and fix it._ <
> 
> Completely untrue, and uncalled for. Getting upset when something goes wrong isn't unreasonable... it's how you respond to it.
> - Tim


Well..it was supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I personally dislike squeeky-wheel policies (ie. help first those that complain loudest) but I do see it occur a lot and I guess it can be hard to argue with the end-result the OP received (ie a call from Tivo) Probably why it happens so often. I was trying to comment on how a lot of other issues are brought up in this forum with less sensational titles yet don't seem to get the attention of Tivo.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

timckelley said:


> Yes, if you pay off your cc's each month in full, then you
> 
> incur no interest charges
> get free float on your mnney, which indirectly earns you extra interest, especially if you keep your checking in one of the high interest earning banks like ING Direct or EverBank, Schwab checking, or Etrade checking, etc
> ...


Add to that the point that a large authorization isn't going to cause your checks to bounce, and incorrect or fraudulent charges hit the bank's account, not yours. It's easier to get the incorrect charges reversed before you are billed, than to have the bank restore the funds to your account in their sweet time.


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## MatrixOutsider (Mar 7, 2003)

RedBeard1701 said:


> I'm glad he fixed his problems and TiVo *did* admit to the screw up and fixed it.
> 
> But....
> 
> When someone dismisses the possiblility that *they* screwed up by pointing out that they are much too smart and successful to have made a mistake, well that sort of weakens their argument right off the bat unnecessarily doesn't it?


Yup, that is called "argument from authority" It is a logical fallacy when a person tells you he is an authority about something in order to convince you that everything he says thereafter is true, or in this case, he does not make mistakes. The 9/11 conspiracy nuts do this all the time.


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## MatrixOutsider (Mar 7, 2003)

xdroccax said:


> Another point I'd like to stir up.
> It seems everyone is calling this a Tivo "mistake", but let me paint another picture. *I have no proof this is, so you can treat this as fiction.* What if, Tivo does this "mistake" more often then they care to admit. The seized fulls can be easiely used by Tivo to purchase/sell short term (24 or 48 hour) stocks and/or funds; some may call this day trading. Any profit (even the smallest like $1) would be pure profit as the purchase cash was not theirs in the first place. So if 10 activations were held for 48 hours, then $4k (10*400) could be used to purchase ~500 shares of (hhmm) TIVO at $8/share for 1-2 days, and the symbol raises $.25. The profit would be $125 (less ~$25 fees). That would almost equal to having a 1-year sub but without having to provide any services for it.


This is both highly unethical and illegal. Federal bank fraud gets you decades in prison. The officers of a corporation are personally liable when they commit fraud (e.g., Enron). In addition, how would you hide this in the financial statements of a public company that has to be audited by an outside company?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

xdroccax said:


> Another point I'd like to stir up.
> It seems everyone is calling this a Tivo "mistake", but let me paint another picture. *I have no proof this is, so you can treat this as fiction.* What if, Tivo does this "mistake" more often then they care to admit. The seized fulls can be easiely used by Tivo to purchase/sell short term (24 or 48 hour) stocks and/or funds; some may call this day trading. Any profit (even the smallest like $1) would be pure profit as the purchase cash was not theirs in the first place. So if 10 activations were held for 48 hours, then $4k (10*400) could be used to purchase ~500 shares of (hhmm) TIVO at $8/share for 1-2 days, and the symbol raises $.25. The profit would be $125 (less ~$25 fees). That would almost equal to having a 1-year sub but without having to provide any services for it.





ZeoTiVo said:


> umm, because it would be highly unethical and most likely illegal. I knew a Fnancial Officer in a company I used to work for fire a friend of mine. Turns out the friend knew the officer was doing something along these lines and the company had the officer resign ahead of being fired or the company having to be charged with financial misconduct. The friend was hired back to replace the officer.
> 
> It wa a mistake by TiVo and mistakes happen. Maybe they have a bad process and the mistake happens far too often. The process should of course be fixed.





MatrixOutsider said:


> This is both highly unethical and illegal. Federal bank fraud gets you decades in prison. The officers of a corporation are personally liable when they commit fraud (e.g., Enron). In addition, how would you hide this in the financial statements of a public company that has to be audited by an outside company?


pretty much


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## endobrian (Sep 18, 2006)

op thought he was getting Lifetime for free.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

endobrian said:


> op thought he was getting Lifetime for free.


The OP had already paid ($399) for the Lifetime Service..he just wanted it put on the HD-TiVo he recieved from TiVo, he never said he wanted it for free, just not for $399X2.


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