# TivoHD - "HDMI Connection Not Permitted"



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

I see this in a blue Tivo message box on the bottom of the screen for a split second every time the Tivo switches resolutions when changing channels (I use Native).

Anyone else seen this? I never see this on my S3's, and they are both on Native as well.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Does this TiVoHD have an HDMI cable plugged into it? Perhaps the new hardware knows how to shut off just the HDMI interface when HDCP negotiation fails and that little message will still get pushed out to HDMI before it flips off.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

vman41 said:


> Does this TiVoHD have an HDMI cable plugged into it? Perhaps the new hardware knows how to shut off just the HDMI interface when HDCP negotiation fails and that little message will still get pushed out to HDMI before it flips off.


Yes, it's HDMI. Weird message though, for a device that supports Native. I thought the HDMI hardware was the same for this and the S3?


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Yeah I get it briefly when I turn on one of my Sonys with the new Tivo HD. Probably just a delayed HDCP handshake .


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

Chimpware said:


> Yeah I get it briefly when I turn on one of my Sonys with the new Tivo HD. Probably just a delayed HDCP handshake .


Strange....I've got a TiVO HD with the HDMI cable (just setup last night and cable card install today) and I'm not seeing this at all...although I am going to test the difference between hdmi and the component cables with optical audio to compare.

could be a unique combo with your tv set too.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

d_anders said:


> Strange....I've got a TiVO HD with the HDMI cable (just setup last night and cable card install today) and I'm not seeing this at all...although I am going to test the difference between hdmi and the component cables with optical audio to compare.
> 
> could be a unique combo with your tv set too.


 Yes but are you using Native mode for output setting? That is forcing the TV to re-sync when changing resolutions and probably causing temporary handshaking glitches (HDCP outages). Solution of course is to use a fixed resolution output.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Does not happen on my XBR2, but does on my Bravia with same HDMI setup and Native on both.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

I observed what appeared to be a delayed HDCP handshake back on Wednesday, but I have not seen it since I updated to 8.1.7b.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I see this message all the time with my S3 hooked up via HDMI to a 60" Sony XBR. It only lasts a couple of seconds, and then it disappears. Not that big of a deal really.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

AbMagFab said:


> I see this in a blue Tivo message box on the bottom of the screen for a split second every time the Tivo switches resolutions when changing channels (I use Native).
> 
> Anyone else seen this? I never see this on my S3's, and they are both on Native as well.


Is the message isolated to SD channels?

Some HDMI connections do not support 480i. It is possible TiVo is telling you this before it converts to 480p. Not knowing all the details it could easily be something else also.


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## fishtank22 (Jan 4, 2004)

I'm seeing it as well. Just got my TivoHD set up with my Samsung LN-T4065F and my HDMI cable. 
It happens when I turn the TV on and also when changing from an HD to SD channel and vice versa. 

When I set it to 1080i Fixed ... it doesnt happen.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> I see this in a blue Tivo message box on the bottom of the screen for a split second every time the Tivo switches resolutions when changing channels (I use Native).
> 
> Anyone else seen this? I never see this on my S3's, and they are both on Native as well.


We see it on our S3 periodically. It is indeed the handshake issue on resolution change. It shows for about a second and then disappears. Not a big deal for us...although there is that brief moment of anxiety that something is about to go wrong.


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## steve101 (Jan 4, 2005)

I intermittently get this message (HDMI not permitted...)
when I turn on the TV. It never happens during a
viewing session (TV on, changing channels on the
Tivo, whatever).

TV is a Sony Bravia (1080p), Tivo is set to 1080 fixed.

Once I get this message, what I have to do is briefly
unplug the HDMI from either the TV or the Tivo and
restore it. The video immediately syncs up and
operation is back to normal.

It seems to me that the Tivo gives up trying too
soon, I wish it would (at the time it is getting ready
to display that message) reinitialize/restart the
HDMI and try again.

That said, it happens seldom enough that I can live with it.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

IIRC other Sony TV owners have reported the same thing here and on the AVS Forum with TiVo's as well as other DVR's...plus various other oddities. The problem is usually caused by the loss of the HDCP "handshake". Unplugging or turning off the TV, receiver (if connected) or TiVo will reestablish the handshake. It doesn't appear to be a TiVo problem, but something to do with how some Sony TV's work.

Some have cured the problem by using component (YPbPr) video and optical (TOSlink) audio instead of HDMI. The difference in PQ between a component connection and HDMI will probably not be noticeable...one or the other may be better depending on your TV's capabilities and audio will be as good or better. Here's a link to a good article on the subject:

DVI vs. HDMI vs. Component Video -- Which is Better?

Here's a link to a very good article about HDMI and why it is or isn't always the best choice:

Connecting A Home Theater - HDMI


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## elduderino (Sep 22, 2008)

Same message, different circumstances.

I have a TivoHD connected via HDMI to my Toshiba 34HF84 television. I have had this setup for almost a year (early TivoHD adopter). I currently am on FIOS and have been for about 2 months, but prior to that was on a different cable system (Time Warner/legacy Adelphia)

Starting yesterday, I get the "HDMI not permitted" message. I see and hear (if TV volume is up) a few frames of video and a burst of audio before the message appears.

Checking under Account, HDCP is not permitted (of course, I doubt you can get this message without that field reading that way : )

I have:

Unplugged the TiVo for a minute, reconnected. No change.

Unplugged the TV for a minute. No change.

Disconnected HDMI from both ends and reconnected. No change.

Cycled TV inputs. No change.

Cycled TiVo formats (usually use Hybrid 480i). No change.

Verified the TiVo FW has not changed recently (it hasn't)

Checked for TV FW updates - none (but I was pretty certain that this device was not built to be updated...)

TiVo has no ideas (but the L2 techs are of course ready to blame the TV immediately...).

In the meantime, I have wired for analog component video and analog stereo audio...which means I won't be watching DVDs anytime soon without re-rewiring. They are connected simultaneously, and while there is some data which indicates that with an unauthorized HDMI connection, NO signal will come out of the Tivo HD, my device outputs component and analog audio just fine simultaneous with that evil HDMI connection.

Has anyone any *insights*? (which don't involve trying a new HDMI cable, a different source device as a test, or an HDMI AV receiver as a test, all of which I'm planning to do but none of which constitute "insight" as much as they do additional troubleshooting


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

elduderino said:


> Has anyone any *insights*? (which don't involve trying a new HDMI cable, a different source device as a test, or an HDMI AV receiver as a test, all of which I'm planning to do but none of which constitute "insight" as much as they do additional troubleshooting


Odd that it suddenly started showing problems and it sounds like your trouble shooting has reached the point of going through those mentioned above now. Might be as simple as a new HDMI cable...they do fail now and then. Don't spend big bucks on "gold plated" features, just a good HDMI cable should do it (<$20).

I've had our S3 hooked up with both component and HDMI at the same time and couldn't tell much difference in the PQ.

The two articles I linked above have plenty of "insight". Best of luck!


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## elduderino (Sep 22, 2008)

I plan on trying a new cable - I haven't looked up the pin assignments on an HDMI cable but I would be surprised if there was one conductor which handled HDCP authentication and nothing else. Could be a bad cable allowing more jitter than the components can handle. 

Just re-checked things, still no good. 

Any more experience on this sort of event? Anybody?


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## ursine1 (May 1, 2001)

I see the message, but just for a split second, all the time. HD TiVo and Samsung set.


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## Satchel14 (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm glad to have found this topic on the boards. I too have had the same problem. Just got Tivo HD set up this week with a Sony 51" Rear Projection, DVI to HDMI. When it changes channels that message comes up momentarily but also a grey screen but then does change correctly. It's a lag of time basically, but it makes it even longer to change to the channel. 

I'm considering switching to component cables, but I'm worried about dropping quality of the picture. If I switch to component will I lose the clarity I have now?

Thanks,
Heather


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Satchel14 said:


> If I switch to component will I lose the clarity I have now?


No.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Satchel14 said:


> I'm considering switching to component cables, but I'm worried about dropping quality of the picture. If I switch to component will I lose the clarity I have now?
> 
> Thanks,
> Heather


Agree with RonDawg, you shouldn't see much if any difference in PQ by switching from HDMI to component video. I've used both on our 42" HD LCD TV and honestly can't tell the difference. Check my earlier post for links to articles about HDMI Vs Component connections for more info.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

I'm the OP - for what it's worth, I fixed this by changing to PCM (from DD). Since this is only hooked up to my TV (no pre-pro or AVR), I'm okay with that.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

I helped a friend set up a Tivo HD last Sunday in preparation for her CableCard install yesterday. She had been using a 3' HDMI cable all week between the Tivo HD and her Philips 32PF7421D/37 LCD TV. As soon as the CableCard was installed and guided setup finished, we got a message that HDMI was not permitted due to some issue with HDCP. I found the following about her model:

"The HDMI input is fully backward compatible with DVI sources but includes digital audio. HDMI uses HDCP copy protection."

I'd like to be able to stay with HDMI to simplify her cabling. Could it be a bad cable? Any suggestions?


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## kurtmyers (Sep 27, 2008)

Just started getting the "HDMI Connection Not Permitted" error message. I have been using my TivoHD and Pansonic Plasma for over a year without issue. Have Both a HDMI and SVideo output directly to the TV. (I switch between, S-Video looks better on SD channels)
When it happens, *the error message flashes constantly*, EVEN IF I AM VIEWING ON ANALOG S-VIDEO OUTPUT. 
The first two time I saw, I restarted TIVO and it cleared up.
Last time that did not fix, unplugged then re-connected HDMI cable and it fixed.
Getting worried what I'll do if it happens again and these simple things don't fix it.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

kurtmyers said:


> Just started getting the "HDMI Connection Not Permitted" error message. I have been using my TivoHD and Pansonic Plasma for over a year without issue. Have Both a HDMI and SVideo output directly to the TV. (I switch between, S-Video looks better on SD channels)
> When it happens, *the error message flashes constantly*, EVEN IF I AM VIEWING ON ANALOG S-VIDEO OUTPUT.


There is an issue with the HDMI handshaking when your switch out of that particular input, causing the TiVo to cease all video output regardless of connection type. Why it's doing it after a year, I couldn't tell you.

Again the best solution is...use Component Video.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

bmgoodman said:


> I helped a friend set up a Tivo HD last Sunday in preparation for her CableCard install yesterday. She had been using a 3' HDMI cable all week between the Tivo HD and her Philips 32PF7421D/37 LCD TV. As soon as the CableCard was installed and guided setup finished, we got a message that HDMI was not permitted due to some issue with HDCP. I found the following about her model:
> 
> "The HDMI input is fully backward compatible with DVI sources but includes digital audio. HDMI uses HDCP copy protection."
> 
> I'd like to be able to stay with HDMI to simplify her cabling. Could it be a bad cable? Any suggestions?


OK, I replaced the cable and still get the message. I'm waiting to hear back from Philips to see if they have ideas.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

bmgoodman said:


> OK, I replaced the cable and still get the message. I'm waiting to hear back from Philips to see if they have ideas.


Did you replace it with something of better quality? Where did you get the cable? Monoprice has inexpensive, good quality cables.

Honestly, this sounds like a cable issue to me.

On the Tivo - in the System Information screen, what does it say for HDCP?

And exactly, step for step, how do you get the error and what do you see?


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## sooka (Sep 24, 2007)

RonDawg said:


> There is an issue with the HDMI handshaking when your switch out of that particular input, causing the TiVo to cease all video output regardless of connection type. Why it's doing it after a year, I couldn't tell you.
> 
> Again the best solution is...use Component Video.


That seems to be one of the limitations when connecting through HDMI.


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## JonathanMeyers (Dec 20, 2007)

I just started having this problem today. I have 2 TiVo HD's. They have both been working great for about a year. Today on one unit I started getting the TivoHD - "HDMI Connection Not Permitted" message. I tried the various things like restarting the unit, changing HDMI cables, etc. On the screen it says call TiVo support so I did. They don't have a clue. 

In the System information screen, it says:
HDMI Status: HDCP Not Enabled

I had to connect via analog cables to get HD.

The other TiVo HD unit is working fine with HDMI.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> Did you replace it with something of better quality? Where did you get the cable? Monoprice has inexpensive, good quality cables.
> 
> Honestly, this sounds like a cable issue to me.
> 
> ...


Sorry for such a long delay, but since it isn't my Tivo, I rarely get to interact with it. The last time was several weeks ago when I tried swapping out the HDMI cable, but nothing changed. (Both cables were from Monoprice.)

I get the error just as soon as I connect the HDMI cable from the Tivo HD to the TV. Immediately it blanks the screen other than "HDMI cable not permitted."

I've heard nothing back from Philips, but their literature says the set supports HDCP/HDMI. I'm giving up and leaving the component connection with analog audio. I cannot imagine what benefit would be worth more time troubleshooting.

I HATE DRM!!!


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## pablofields (Dec 16, 2008)

JonathanMeyers said:


> I just started having this problem today. I have 2 TiVo HD's. They have both been working great for about a year. Today on one unit I started getting the TivoHD - "HDMI Connection Not Permitted" message. I tried the various things like restarting the unit, changing HDMI cables, etc. On the screen it says call TiVo support so I did. They don't have a clue.
> 
> In the System information screen, it says:
> HDMI Status: HDCP Not Enabled
> ...


I also just started getting this problem in the last day or two. I've had a TivoHD Series 3 and Panasonic plasma screen for years and, while I sometimes would get the "HDMI connection not permitted" message when changing channels, it would quickly go away. Now, it is a permanent message and the screen stays gray. As the Panasonic is an older model, it only has DVI input so I have a DVI cable and use an HDMI adapter to input to the Tivo box. As said, this pairing has worked no problem for years until last few days. I tried rebooting the box, unplugging the cable, turning the plasma on and off, but no joy.

My Systems panel also says "HDCP Not Enabled"

Is it possible for those of us with this problem to "enable" HDCP through the Tivo system? Does Tivo technical support need to make some adjustment for each of our system's?

I hope someone can help with this.

UPDATE: I fiddled around with the video settings in the tivo menu. My plasma supports 480, 740, and 1080, and I tried various settings. 1080i fixed seems to have resolved the problem, at least for now, though there is still a significant amount of flickering and the dreaded "HDMI connection not permitted" sometimes makes a quick appearance. So, while I am receiving all channels, it seems to be a precarious fix


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## IGWTAOPC (Jan 1, 2007)

pablofields said:


> I also just started getting this problem in the last day or two. I've had a TivoHD Series 3 and Panasonic plasma screen for years and, while I sometimes would get the "HDMI connection not permitted" message when changing channels, it would quickly go away. Now, it is a permanent message and the screen stays gray. As the Panasonic is an older model, it only has DVI input so I have a DVI cable and use an HDMI adapter to input to the Tivo box. As said, this pairing has worked no problem for years until last few days. I tried rebooting the box, unplugging the cable, turning the plasma on and off, but no joy.
> 
> My Systems panel also says "HDCP Not Enabled"
> 
> ...


My Tivo HD just developed this problem three days ago. Initially I thought the unit or the WD expander was trashed when it would go to the black/grey screen at the point it transitions from the "Welcome powering up" screen to the "few more minutes screen". Thankfully, I checked the analog s-video output and discovered the bootup was proceeding normally, just that it couldn't be viewed through the HDMI output. I'm now watching HD through the component output.

My system information screen also displays "HDCP not enabled". I called in the problem yesterday and the CSR was nice, checked with others a couple of times, couldn't offer an explanation or solution but said I would get a call back. I'll pass on any info I might get.

Just to alleviate your concern about your TV, I'm using a 2008 Panasonic Plasma that has worked perfectly with the Tivo HD since I got them both 7 months ago. I think switching on the Netflix capabilities is probably too coincidental to be ignored, so hopefully it will be a problem we won't have to wait too long to be fixed.

Steve


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## km54291 (Apr 12, 2009)

IGWTAOPC said:


> My Tivo HD just developed this problem three days ago. Initially I thought the unit or the WD expander was trashed when it would go to the black/grey screen at the point it transitions from the "Welcome powering up" screen to the "few more minutes screen". Thankfully, I checked the analog s-video output and discovered the bootup was proceeding normally, just that it couldn't be viewed through the HDMI output. I'm now watching HD through the component output.
> 
> My system information screen also displays "HDCP not enabled". I called in the problem yesterday and the CSR was nice, checked with others a couple of times, couldn't offer an explanation or solution but said I would get a call back. I'll pass on any info I might get.
> 
> ...


I have had a Phillips 37" LCD tv and have been using all of the same equipment and cables since I bought the TivoHD back in Sept/Oct 2008 and I just now started receiving this issue today. I have so far, disconnected the cables and rebooted the TivoHD unit once, and neither has worked.

I again disconnected cable from both ends, and unplugged the TV and Tivo again to allow one more fresh start/connection, but from reading all of this, it doesnt sound hopeful. I too have recently enabled Netflix, but its been about 1-2 months at least, so odd this randomly just started occuring.

UPDATE: After completing the action I mentioned in the 2nd paragraph, I appear to be back in order.... I hope the issue remains resolved.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

km54291 said:


> I again disconnected cable from both ends, and unplugged the TV and Tivo again to allow one more fresh start/connection, but from reading all of this, it doesnt sound hopeful.
> 
> UPDATE: After completing the action I mentioned in the 2nd paragraph, I appear to be back in order.... I hope the issue remains resolved.


Welcome to the forum. Glad to hear things are back in order. It may be something as simple as the HDMI cable going bad. It happens...even if nothing's changed, moved, etc. If it acts up again I'd pick up a new cable from monoprice.com.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

I'd like to add a new experience I have now encountered related to this.

First of all, I've had a set up for the longest time that includes 2 of the the original Series 3 TiVos connected by two HDMI connections directly to my Panasonic Plasma TV.

Additionally, I have two COMPONENT cables being pushed 100' to multiple TV's in my house. The only issue I've ever encountered was a brief "HDMI not permitted" when switching inputs on my Panasonic TV. I could even stream Netflix to any TV in the house over Component.

Yesterday, I installed a Samsung BD-P1500 Blue Ray player and it needs HDMI to send 1080P. So, I purchased a small switch http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=350184336159 . I hooked it up. All was well, so I thought!

With the Panasonic TV off, the TiVo with cableCARDs would not let me watch certain stations over the component cables. It would say "HDMI not permitted". When I turn the Panasonic back on, I can watch all stations over component.

So, I moved the mini switch over to the TiVo WITHOUT CableCARDs. Then I was able to get all of the channels I would normally get. The only thing I still couldn't get was the Netflix Streaming. For this, I would still need to turn the Panasonic TV back on.

So, it IS cableCARDs causing some TV stations to be blocked, but, even WITHOUT cableCARDs, Netflix is blocked.

I know some of these things mirror AbMagFab's findings, but, I think the Netflix streaming is a new one.

If I have both HDMI cables directly plugged in to my Panasonic Plasma at all times, on or off, I am able to watch anything I want over both COMPONENT cable feeds. Add this little switch, and I am blocked.

Just thought I'd add a few new experiences to the mix.


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## myklup (Apr 7, 2009)

I now get this message whenever I try to view something copied over from my other THD - but it's currently plugged into an LCD that doesn't have hdcp, will test it when i move it over to see if it keeps happening


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

What do you mean by:



> LCD that doesn't have hdcp


What model LCD? Does it have HDMI? If so, it also has hdcp. If not, how do you have it connected?


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## myklup (Apr 7, 2009)

jrm01 said:


> What do you mean by:
> 
> What model LCD? Does it have HDMI? If so, it also has hdcp. If not, how do you have it connected?


It's a Dell LCD PC Monitor with DVI, sorry. Connected with an HDMI-DVI cable


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## ArcticGabe (Dec 27, 2001)

Looks like I get to join this prestigious club, too!

After a week of enjoying my new TiVo HD, I get the "HDMI Connection Not Permitted" message, but only on my HD stations from my cable company. 

The OTA HD stations work fine, as do the SD cable channels.

Restarting the TiVo did not help. I'll swap the cables back and forth with my old HR10-250 (still activated) and see if the problem follows the cable or not.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ArcticGabe said:


> Looks like I get to join this prestigious club, too!
> 
> After a week of enjoying my new TiVo HD, I get the "HDMI Connection Not Permitted" message, but only on my HD stations from my cable company.
> 
> ...


Try setting to PCM instead of DD?


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## ArcticGabe (Dec 27, 2001)

Well, I tried about every combination of things I could think of doing with the HDMI cable:

- unplugged TV for 30 sec, restarted, SAME PROBLEM
- unplugged TiVoHD for 30 sec, restarted, SAME PROBLEM
- reseated HDMI cable at each end, SAME PROBLEM
- changed audio from DD to PCM, SAME PROBLEM
- plugged HDMI cable into HR10-250, FLICKERING SOUND AND VIDEO, hmmmm
- connected TiVoHD using component connections, WORKS PERFECTLY, hmmmm

Now we're getting somewhere. Looks like it's pointing to the cable. Strange though, I used this HDMI cable for the last 5 years on my HR10, and after a week of service on the TiVo HD, it decides to krap out.

Since the problem is *only* on the Cable HD channels, that leaves me to believe that my cable co requires proper HDMI handshaking on the channels that cost more.

_<edit reason: forgot to mention about trying audio swap.>_


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

Well, here's another scenario to throw into the mix. (I'm a Tivo neophyte of only a couple of months.)

I originally had my TivoHD connected via HDMI to my Denon 3808ci which is connected via HDMI to my Samsung LN46A750. THD was set to Native which caused the 3-4 sec. delay when switching channels. This wonderful forum provided the the guidance to set the resolution on the THD to fixed 1080i which indeed eliminated the channel changing delay with no PQ change...at least to my eyes, anyway.

Then I wanted my system to display video through the Tivo while providing audio through another input (specifically, Net/USB so that I could access my Rhapsody account) on the 3808. I tried merely pairing the Tivo video to the Net/USB input on the 3808 but got no video. So I thought of additionally adding a component video connection between the THD and 3808 and assigning the component input to the Net/USB video source. BOOM! The first time I saw the "HDMI not permitted..." error message. So I solved it by abandoning the HDMI connection between the THD and the 3808 and using component video and optical audio. BINGO! Flexibility and, for my eyes and ears anyway, no picture or audio differences. 

HDMI is definitely handcuffed by HDCP.

(BTW, for those of you who enjoy the HDT channel and have a Rhapsody or similar account, try pairing the "Sunrise Earth" showings with an "Ambient" channel and a nice cup of coffee in the morning!)


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