# New Roamio owner, question about OnePass



## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

I recently bought a Roamio to replace the trusty old S3. Seems like an upgrade so far, but I am really confused about how OnePass works.

My wife loves Law & Order. She likes to watch old episodes when nothing else is on, so I have always had multiple Season Passes set up for her. One on NBC to get new episodes (all episodes, keep until delete) and then one on USA to cache a few old ones (10 episodes, keep until space needed). This way she is guaranteed to always have the new episodes, plus 10 old ones which refresh as needed.

So here is where I am in trouble. How do I do this on the new Roamio? I can't set up multiple OnePass subscriptions, apparently. So all I can choose is either the new episodes on NBC or all episodes across all channels, with only one retention policy. So now what is happening is that the Roamio is recording Law & Order on every channel, and it's on so often that you can discover in a day or two that dozens of repeats have been recorded and your new NBC episodes are gone.

At this point, my wife is not pleased with the new Roamio (or not pleased with me for upgrading, to be more accurate). This isn't the only show giving me this problem, but when the wife is unhappy, I'm miserable.

We've been a TiVo family since 2000, and I've been able to do this for 15 years, even on the S1 Sony box, so I know TiVo wouldn't remove this ability. I must be missing something with how I've set up the OnePass, but I'm pulling my hair out trying to find the magic setting to avoid this from happening.

Please help--thanks!


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Just one of several ways that TiVo screwed up the software when adding OnePass.

You can sort of kludge things to do some of what you used to be able to do using Auto Recording Wish Lists.

Big discussion here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=525402&highlight=

But look at the bright side.. Now you can easily find and watch streaming content from the major providers where before 1P you could easily find and watch streaming content from the major providers.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

Wait a minute. You mean this is how it is SUPPOSED to work? That's crazy.

It seems to me then that OnePass is a supplement/alternative to Season Pass, but not a replacement. This is really disappointing.

Why wouldn't TiVo give us both options?


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

Interesting. The first post in that other thread mentions my exact issue, and even the same show (Law & Order). I'm shocked that the newest TiVo can't do what the original TiVo did perfectly 15 years ago. Well, I'm still in my 30-day window. I may just send this back and revert to the S3 TiVo HD.

I didn't buy a Roamio for streaming content (I've already got Roku/Chromecast/Xbox/Amazon Fire devices all over the house), and the way the Roamio is forcing me to consume it detracts from my primary reason for owning a TiVo. Bummer. Thanks for the link.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

The only reason I didn't do that was that I got the roamio because my Series 3 HD would no longer work on some of my cable channels due to encoding changes and the cable company was switching even more.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That thread also has various work arounds that folks have been using to, at least partially, replicate the older method.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Toddler said:


> Interesting. The first post in that other thread mentions my exact issue, and even the same show (Law & Order). I'm shocked that the newest TiVo can't do what the original TiVo did perfectly 15 years ago. Well, I'm still in my 30-day window. I may just send this back and revert to the S3 TiVo HD.


I think you should just take a breath, and at least attempt the wishlist work around. I think you'll find that while it is annoying that Tivo has made a unilateral decision to remove the way it worked in the past you'll be able to make the adjustment and will soon not notice the difference.



> I didn't buy a Roamio for streaming content (I've already got Roku/Chromecast/Xbox/Amazon Fire devices all over the house), and the way the Roamio is forcing me to consume it detracts from my primary reason for owning a TiVo. Bummer. Thanks for the link.


I believe Royk's comment regarding streaming is a little dig at Tivo and not implying that streaming actually should make you happier about losing the season pass.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

SeanC said:


> I think you should just take a breath, and at least attempt the wishlist work around. I think you'll find that while it is annoying that Tivo has made a unilateral decision to remove the way it worked in the past you'll be able to make the adjustment and will soon not notice the difference.
> 
> I believe Royk's comment regarding streaming is a little dig at Tivo and not implying that streaming actually should make you happier about losing the season pass.


Of all the workarounds the wishlist solution is the least sucky. At least it works sort of which is more than be said for the one offered by the person most responsible for the 1P design (use suggestions) that doesn't work at all. But good luck explaining to your wife why SVU and any other shows you use the workaround for have two folders for each show each with the same contents.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

I won't have to explain anything to the wife, because the S3 TiVo HD is up and running again, and the Roamio is probably headed back to Amazon.com.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Toddler said:


> I won't have to explain anything to the wife, because the S3 TiVo HD is up and running again, and the Roamio is probably headed back to Amazon.com.


That's too bad. I moved from HD to roamio about 6 weeks before 1P released. I was absolutely delighted with it. After 1P it's still far above its competition but a big step backwards from where it was in DVR functionality afaic.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

SeanC said:


> I think you should just take a breath, and at least attempt the wishlist work around.


Why? Toddler doesnt need the streaming functions and he does need at least one of the removed DVR functions.

*The best way to improve his chances of buying a new TiVo without losing functionality if/when his S3 bites the dust is to return his new Roamio today and tell TiVo, Inc. the lost functionality is the reason he is doing it.*

Btw, Toddler, you should know that (at least) *two other very old capabilities have also been removed.* OnePass can do new and new and repeats, but *the everything option is unavailable on the Roamio*. Premiere users, otoh, can enable everything on a 1P through the Classic UI  TiVos name for SD menus on the System Information screen  and it will not only be recognized and displayed in the HD 1P manager, but it will work more reliably than before because a bug in that functionality has now, at long last, been fixed.

Finally, *the option to turn off groups in the NPL has been removed*, again except for Premiere users running the Classic UI.

Note that *none of these three ancient functions needed to be removed to provide any of the benefits of 1P*, with the possible exception of the trademarked name itself. This point was extremely well and concisely made by Diana Collins, in the previously referenced long thread, and Ill save you the trouble of wading through several hundred posts by reposting her remarks in their entirety here:



Diana Collins said:


> So, I've read this whole thread and while I confess the changes that OnePass has brought don't effect anyone here, I do understand the issue for others.
> 
> I keep coming back in my mind to what TiVo had in mind when they designed OnePass. It seems to me that if the goal was to integrate OTT content with recorded content and be able to build entire series libraries that spanned all sources of that content, then they didn't really need to change Season passes at all. It seems to me that the goal could have been accomplished by just implementing the change in the Folders. It was mixing in the folder content options with the recording process that made it complicated and lead to elimination of the Season Pass functionality under discussion.
> 
> The real user benefit of OnePass is how the results are displayed, not how the recordings get done - or am I missing something?


= = =



Toddler said:


> Wait a minute. You mean this is how it is SUPPOSED to work? That's crazy.
> 
> It seems to me then that OnePass is a supplement/alternative to Season Pass, but not a replacement. This is really disappointing.
> 
> *Why wouldn't TiVo give us both options?*


*Three possibilities*, in order from most to least benign:

*One*, the designers/programmers are incompetent or lacking in ingenuity or ability to think outside the box.

*Two*, its a triumph of form over function; driven by the marketing value and hype of the OnePass trademark.

*Three*, this is all smoke and mirrors razzle dazzle to obscure step one in the *planned phaseout of home-based DVR recording, something TiVos partners in the Hollywood based content industry would very much like to hasten as much as possible.*

Now if you think the last possibility is just paranoid raving, consider that the precedent is the HD UI itself, because an HD menu is about as necessary to the delivery of HD content as an HD antenna. The HD UI is and always was a lot of razzle dazzle to disguise, albeit thinly, TiVos takeover of screen real estate in the most heavily trafficked menus for targeted ads and industry product placement.

And we got the same sort of excuses, lies, and rationalizations back then for the ad bar as were getting today for the loss of recording flexibility associated with OnePass, as you can see in this utterly ridiculous rationalization from April 2010:



bkdtv said:


> Once TiVo made the decision to incorporate the video window (can be turned off), it had to find a way to use the adjacent space along the top of the screen.


(Click on the post link above to see the whole post and the accompanying thread. The degree of self-deception is breathtaking to behold.)

Also, anyone who finds even a little bit of sense in what Ive written here, should *also see my comments in this Premiere forum post, where I not only explain why TiVo has disabled VOD in the Classic UI, but why they are pushing OnePass so hard generally.
*
Finally:



RoyK said:


> good luck explaining to your wife why SVU and any other shows you use the workaround for have *two folders for each show each with the same contents.*


*I can give you a workaround for the overlapping contents.* I doubt youll like it much, but Ill put it in *the workaround thread here *just in case.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

joblo said:


> Why? Toddler doesnt need the streaming functions and he does need at least one of the removed DVR functions.


Don't know why you mention streaming when quoting me, that quote has nothing to do with streaming.

And I think trying the wishlist workaround is a good idea if he hasn't tried it yet as it addresses the missing functionality you're raving about.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

If the workaround for overlapping contents still leaves two folders for each show it doesn't matter much.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

RoyK said:


> If the workaround for overlapping contents still leaves two folders for each show it doesn't matter much.


Hey, nobody says you have to use it, y'know?

Just tryin' to help...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

joblo said:


> Hey, nobody says you have to use it, y'know?
> 
> Just tryin' to help...


"preciate it.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

I am still trying to absorb the differences in OnePass and Season Pass, and I appreciate the info people have provided.

What about transferring Season Passes from the S3 to the Roamio via the TiVo website? Does that offer any workarounds to my issue? Meaning...if I transfer the Law and Order Season Pass for new NBC episodes, and then transfer the Law and Order Season Pass for repeat episodes on USA, do they each get preserved or do they get merged into a single OnePass on the Roamio?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Toddler said:


> What about transferring Season Passes from the S3 to the Roamio via the TiVo website? Does that offer any workarounds to my issue? Meaning...if I transfer the Law and Order Season Pass for new NBC episodes, and then transfer the Law and Order Season Pass for repeat episodes on USA, do they each get preserved or do they get merged into a single OnePass on the Roamio?


Multiple SPs were merged as part of the software upgrade that introduced 1P, so no reason to think transferring through the website would be any different.

But since you have an idle Roamio, you might as well try it. If it works, many here will appreciate you for discovering it.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Toddler said:


> I am still trying to absorb the differences in OnePass and Season Pass, and I appreciate the info people have provided.
> 
> What about transferring Season Passes from the S3 to the Roamio via the TiVo website? Does that offer any workarounds to my issue? Meaning...if I transfer the Law and Order Season Pass for new NBC episodes, and then transfer the Law and Order Season Pass for repeat episodes on USA, do they each get preserved or do they get merged into a single OnePass on the Roamio?


Season passes are gone from the Roamio and Premiere also was Tivo decision no way to get them back.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

Ok, I tested copying the NBC Law & Order and USA Law & Order Season Passes. I copied them each individually from the S3 to the Roamio, and when attempting to copy the second one, the website tells me there's already a Season Pass for this series and has NBC and USA both checked. But then interestingly, they each appear as a separate Season Pass under the Roamio on the website. I'll see what happens on the Roamio side.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

Guys, that looks like it did preserve the separate Season Passes exactly as they existed on the S3 TiVo. I now have two OnePass entries for Law & Order: SVU. One is on NBC, new episodes only (2 will be recorded) and another on USA, new & repeat (117 will record).


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Toddler said:


> Guys, that looks like it did preserve the separate Season Passes exactly as they existed on the S3 TiVo. I now have two OnePass entries for Law & Order: SVU. One is on NBC, new episodes only (2 will be recorded) and another on USA, new & repeat (117 will record).


Hmm... I wonder if you could get the "everything" option enabled on a Roamio SP/1P the same way.

Another fun experiment for Roamio owners with older machines to try, I guess.

Also a reason to hang on to older machines as workarounds to preserve functionality.

Of course, the proof of concept will be in the execution. Still need to see if the recordings work as they should and whether you get one folder or two.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Toddler said:


> Guys, that looks like it did preserve the separate Season Passes exactly as they existed on the S3 TiVo. I now have two OnePass entries for Law & Order: SVU. One is on NBC, new episodes only (2 will be recorded) and another on USA, new & repeat (117 will record).


I have a suspicion the 2 1Ps will not survive a SW Update.

They may not even survive two network connections and a reboot. Time will tell.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

joblo said:


> *Three*, this is all smoke and mirrors razzle dazzle to obscure step one in the *planned phaseout of home-based DVR recording, something TiVo's partners in the Hollywood based content industry would very much like to hasten as much as possible.*


I hope TiVo isn't drinking any such entertainment industry Kool-Aid. If greedy content owners ever succeed in phasing out home-based DVR recording, that would surely mean the end of TiVo as a seller of high-end equipment. They would become just another peddler of commodity streaming gear, with maybe a bit more razzle dazzle in their menus but no real functional benefits (like the ability to record content locally, which is why we buy a DVR).


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

CoxInPHX said:


> I have a suspicion the 2 1Ps will not survive a SW Update.
> 
> They may not even survive two network connections and a reboot. Time will tell.


Hard to say for sure at this point, but I have forced a call and rebooted, and so far no merge. I still have two OnePass entries as described earlier. In My Shows I have a folder containing two Law & Order: SVU repeat recordings, both on USA. Looking at the upcoming episodes list, the ones on USA and NBC are marked to be recorded, and the episodes on other channels are not marked. I'll be curious to see what happens once an NBC episode is recorded.


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## Old Hickory (Jan 13, 2011)

Toddler said:


> I won't have to explain anything to the wife, because the S3 TiVo HD is up and running again, and the Roamio is probably headed back to Amazon.com.


Bad choice. Oh wait...


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## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

Toddler said:


> Interesting. The first post in that other thread mentions my exact issue, and even the same show (Law & Order).


That's too funny - I started that other thead regarding L&O SVU.... Having repeat episodes was always our backup show to watch if nothing else was on....

Just to let you know which direction I went - I went with the wishlist for repeats and a OnePass for the new episodes. I don't like it and don't like that I had to do it this way, but it does work and I do have two folders with the repeats in one and the new episodes in the other. Better than not having anything.... Word of caution - when a new episode is on, it will show up in BOTH folders. DO NOT delete it from the wishlist / repeat folder as it will delete it from both places.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

Mrs. Toddler likes to put on an SVU episode when she goes to bed.

Only one day in, but I've forced several calls and rebooted and so far it's working just as I hoped. I've got three S3 HD TiVos, so transferring Season Passes this way is an acceptable workaround. I'll report back if it stops working, but so far, so good.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

It always seemed to me that there was little point in recording Law and Order reruns...between USA, Sundance, and all the other channels that run L&O reruns of one kind or another, there is almost always a Law and Order on live TV.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I believe moyekj discovered and posted about the reason behind the limitation of OnePass, and it had to do with how TiVo was using the Series ID. Since these passes use the series ID as a way to also pull in content from other sources, they aren't able to let you duplicate the passes.


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> It always seemed to me that there was little point in recording Law and Order reruns...between USA, Sundance, and all the other channels that run L&O reruns of one kind or another, there is almost always a Law and Order on live TV.


Hahaha...no kidding!


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

I'm going to try and post a photo. Under "OnePass options" I have two entries. These each correspond to the two Season Passes I transferred from the S3 HD TiVo, and if I drill down into them, they each have their own unique recording options. Is this how multiple OnePass entries for a single show are normally listed for you guys?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Since these passes use the series ID as a way to also pull in content from other sources, they aren't able to let you duplicate the passes.


They already had a unique series ID based object in the NPL folder itself. They didnt need a second one or a one-to-one correspondence between them.

Further, the raison detre for the SP manager, and similar constructs on every other PVR type product, is the prioritization of tuner allocation in case of conflicts. But prioritization of streaming is nonsensical, so polluting the tuner allocation rules with what are essentially folder view preferences is just incredibly poor  some might say incompetent  design. Unless, of course, deliberate obfuscation, or blurring the distinction between recording and streaming, is the whole point.

Unless Im missing something, there are only two streaming options  really just folder views  in the 1P manager: on/off, and starting season. Everything else is controlled through folder views, why not those two as well?

_*But joblo, what if I want to set up streaming on a show I dont have a folder for?*_

The search function that invites you to create a 1P invites you to create a folder instead. That would actually be simpler to code than what they did.

_*But joblo, I dont want a bunch of empty streaming folders in my show list for stuff that isnt yet available to stream.*_

Thats what the not yet available folder is for. If theres nothing to stream yet, the show folder goes in the not yet available folder instead of the main list.

_*But, but, joblo, what if I then want to add recordings to the empty streaming folder?*_

You create an SP, and when the first show records, the folder automagically moves from not yet available to the main list.

See how simple this all is? Not rocket science at all.

So the question remains, are TiVo software developers incompetent or is there something else going on?

I really dont know the answer to that. Goddess knows, theres a lot of badly designed software in the world. But somehow, I would have expected better from a company whose name has become synonymous with DVR.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

joblo, since you seem to have a lot of knowledge to share, would you look at the photo I posted above your post? On the right-hand side, there is an entry for the two channels I have chosen to record SVU on. These correspond to the two Season Passes I transferred from the S3 HD TiVo.

If I had created a new OnePass for SVU, would the right-hand side list all of the channels SVU is on, and let me edit them each individually like I can above? In other words, if I can selectively tell it to record USA with these options, record NBC with different options, and not record all of the other channels that show SVU, I am happy with that. Is that how OnePass natively works?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

I didn't actually see this until after I posted the previous.



Toddler said:


> Under "OnePass options" I have two entries. These each correspond to the two Season Passes I transferred from the S3 HD TiVo, and if I drill down into them, they each have their own unique recording options. Is this how multiple OnePass entries for a single show are normally listed for you guys?


Since my Premieres wont let me create 1Ps for the same show, and Im not willing to experiment with transfers from older machines as you are doing, no.

But its interesting that the software support for multiple 1Ps already seems to exist. At least partially.

But heres the problematic question: what happens when you enable streaming on one or the other of those 1Ps in the 1P manager?

Does enabling streaming and/or changing the starting season in one of them automatically get reflected in the other?

If so, then multiple 1P functionality has basically been implemented, and the disabling is just so much BS. (And if not, fixing the 1P manager to tie streaming together on the duplicates is pretty trivial, so the disabling is still BS.)

But if the two 1Ps can have different streaming settings, then what does the folder show?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Again, our posts crossed.



Toddler said:


> On the right-hand side, there is an entry for the two channels I have chosen to record SVU on. These correspond to the two Season Passes I transferred from the S3 HD TiVo.


Correct.



> If I had created a new OnePass for SVU, would the right-hand side list all of the channels SVU is on, and let me edit them each individually like I can above? In other words, if I can selectively tell it to record USA with these options, record NBC with different options, and not record all of the other channels that show SVU, I am happy with that. Is that how OnePass natively works?


No and no.

That functionality results from the duplicate 1Ps, which, so far, only you have found a back door to enable.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

joblo said:


> multiple 1P functionality has basically been implemented, and the disabling is just so much BS.


Oh, and p.s. the disabling of the "everything" option and the ungrouped show list is also BS, and I'll take up the reasoning behind those deprecations in other threads on other days.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

joblo said:


> That functionality results from the duplicate 1Ps, which, so far, only you have found a back door to enable.


I'll consider myself lucky then, because this is exactly how I would have hoped OnePass would work. And since I've been able to make it work this way, obviously the engineers could implement it if they chose to. I can't understand why they would do it any other way, to be honest.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Toddler said:


> I'll consider myself lucky then, because this is exactly how I would have hoped OnePass would work. And since I've been able to make it work this way, obviously the engineers could implement it if they chose to. I can't understand why they would do it any other way, to be honest.


Simple. Marketing created a bunch of hype around the name *One*Pass. You know the marketing mentality -- after four years of college these folks have epiphanies such as realizing that six is a greater number than one and declare loudly that "This changes everything!" and expect you to buy their nasal spray or whatever.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Toddler said:


> this is exactly how I would have hoped OnePass would work. And since I've been able to make it work this way, obviously the engineers could implement it if they chose to.


More accurate, I think, to say the engineers *did* implement it that way, but were directed to cripple/disable the multiple SP functionality.

But I would still appreciate it if you could answer these questions, since most of us lack the ability to see for ourselves:



joblo said:


> what happens when you enable streaming on one or the other of those 1Ps in the 1P manager?
> 
> Does enabling streaming and/or changing the starting season in one of them automatically get reflected in the other?


= = = =



RoyK said:


> Simple. Marketing created a bunch of hype around the name *One*Pass. You know the marketing mentality -- after four years of college these folks have epiphanies such as realizing that six is a greater number than one and declare loudly that "This changes everything!" and expect you to buy their nasal spray or whatever.


Possibly. That was possibility two in my first post to this thread.

But then I ask myself, are the marketing folks really that limited in their thinking? They couldn't have come up with a different trademark that wouldn't have *required disabling functionality?!?*

Like, I dunno, *OneFolder*, or *OneGroup*, or *OneView*, or *StreamPass*, or *IntegralStreaming*, or  ok, maybe scratch that last... _*IS*_ is probably not the best acronym to have these days... 

But you get the idea... how difficult is this, really?

I mean, as a one time software engineer, myself, I'm pleased to see TiVo engineers are not so dumb, but are we really to believe that TiVo's marketing people *are THAT dumb?!?*


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

joblo said:


> ...
> 
> I mean, as a one time software engineer, myself, I'm pleased to see TiVo engineers are not so dumb, but are we really to believe that TiVo's marketing people *are THAT dumb?!?*


Well as I type this my TV is showing an elephant wearing a suit explaining that we should buy insurance from a company he founded....


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

joblo said:


> What happens when you enable streaming on one or the other of those 1Ps in the 1P manager?
> 
> Does enabling streaming and/or changing the starting season in one of them automatically get reflected in the other?


I am new to Roamio and don't know what that means, but if you tell me how, I'll test it.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Toddler said:


> I am new to Roamio and don't know what that means, but if you tell me how, I'll test it.


When you highlight a 1P on the 1P manager screen, you will see to the right how many, if any, episodes will record, and how many conflicts there are, if any. Below that you will see 5 lines: Include, Start from, Record, Keep at most, and Keep until.

(Before 1P, you would also see start and end padding, if any, but that was one more ridiculous sacrifice associated with putting streaming folder info in the pass manager where it does not belong; now theres no room for the padding info on the main screen without getting rid of the network logo, and we certainly couldnt get rid of anybody's logo. 

But I digress...)

Anyway, the first two of those five lines are about streaming. If you havent enabled streaming on either of the duplicate passes, those lines should say Recordings and Season 1 for both passes.

So the question is, if you select one of the duplicate 1Ps and modify it to enable streaming and/or change the Start from option to something other than Season 1, what will happen to the duplicate 1P, i.e. the one for the other channel, that you did not directly modify?

The one you modified should obviously show the changes you made when you look at that pass on the 1P manager screen.

But if they implemented the many-to-one correspondence correctly in the code, then the duplicate pass should also display the same changes, even though you didnt directly modify the second pass at all. And similarly, if you then modify one or both streaming options in the second 1P, that is, the one for the other channel, those should also show up in both passes on the 1P screen.

Basically, it should not be possible to make the streaming options look different for the two 1Ps, because they both refer to the same folder.

But if you can make them look different, thats a problem, because then there are conflicting instructions regarding the streaming view of that one folder. And then the question then would be, which 1P controls he folder view, and is there any rhyme or reason to that choice?

Is this making sense?

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I am trying to make it as clear as possible.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Oh, and one more question, Toddler. I'm assuming you have both your S3 and Roamio on a network such that each can see the other's programs, and you can directly transfer programs from one to the other, right?

When you look at the S3 NPL from the Roamio, does it display with Classic UI screens and options or HD UI screens and options?

(My recollection is that S2 and S3 machines' NPLs displayed in the Classic style, but I returned my Roamio within the 30 day window a year or so ago, and my memory grows dim.)


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

Modifying the OnePass for L&O:SVU on USA to include Recordings and Streaming did not modify the OnePass for L&O:SVU on NBC at all. In addition to the USA Network logo, I now see Xfinity, Netflix and Hulu Plus logos. The NBC OnePass just shows the NBC logo and still just says Recordings.

When I browse Now Playing on the S3 HD TiVos, the entire UI goes to the Classic view.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Toddler said:


> Modifying the OnePass for L&O:SVU on USA to include Recordings and Streaming did not modify the OnePass for L&O:SVU on NBC at all.


Hmm... then perhaps I gave the TiVo developers too much credit... oh well...

So what do you see in the folder then? Are the streaming episodes there?

And if you enable streaming on both 1Ps, but set them to start with different seasons, when does the folder start?

Just curious, and if you don't have time or don't want to fiddle with this, that's fine... it's really academic at this point.

*What we've established is that the developers apparently went part way toward handling multiple 1Ps per show, but apparently, for whatever reason, did not finish the job, which is interesting.
*
And it also suggests that you might be wise to be a little leery of keeping that Roamio on the basis of this workaround.

As others have suggested, just because you've got two 1Ps for the same show on there today, doesn't mean they won't get merged irreversibly at any time, without warning. Or they might corrupt your show list in other unpredictable ways at some point.

Partial implementation notwithstanding, *multiple 1Ps for the same show are clearly unsupported.*

The safe bet is to stick with your S3 machine if this functionality is important to you.


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

joblo said:


> So what do you see in the folder then? Are the streaming episodes there?
> 
> And if you enable streaming on both 1Ps, but set them to start with different seasons, when does the folder start?


Yes, the streaming episodes are there. There is a single folder for L&O:SVU in My Shows. Recordings and streaming episodes are all listed there.

I changed the USA OnePass to start with Season 5 and the higher-priority NBC OnePass to start with Season 10. Streaming episodes listed in the L&O:SVU folder begin with Season 10.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Toddler said:


> I changed the USA OnePass to start with Season 5 and the higher-priority NBC OnePass to start with Season 10. Streaming episodes listed in the L&O:SVU folder begin with Season 10.


Interesting.

So if you change the priorities to make USA higher priority than NBC, without modifying the 1Ps themselves at all, does that change the folder view, such that it starts with Season 5 instead of 10?


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

joblo said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So if you change the priorities to make USA higher priority than NBC, without modifying the 1Ps themselves at all, does that change the folder view, such that it starts with Season 5 instead of 10?


That appears to be the case. Whatever streaming settings I assign to the higher priority OnePass seem to end up taking precedence.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

Once again, I seem to have overlooked a reply&#8230;



Toddler said:


> That appears to be the case. Whatever streaming settings I assign to the higher priority OnePass seem to end up taking precedence.


In that case, they did fully implement it, after all, but they did it in a way I would call... less than optimal.

And it's possible the suits thought it was too confusing and told the engineers to disable it, but they overlooked that back door you found.

So...



joblo said:


> *What we've established is that the developers apparently went part way toward handling multiple 1Ps per show, but apparently, for whatever reason, did not finish the job fully implemented multiple 1Ps for the same show, but TiVo Inc. chose to disable the implementation, which is interesting.
> *


But I stand by the rest of what I wrote:



> And it also suggests that you might be wise to be a little leery of keeping that Roamio on the basis of this workaround.
> 
> As others have suggested, just because you've got two 1Ps for the same show on there today, doesn't mean they won't get merged irreversibly at any time, without warning. Or they might corrupt your show list in other unpredictable ways at some point.
> 
> ...


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

joblo said:


> The safe bet is to stick with your S3 machine if this functionality is important to you.


Until you cable company converts to mpeg4 and then the S3 will be useless.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Until you cable company converts to mpeg4 and then the S3 will be useless.


Which isn't something that needs to be a consideration until the time comes. By then who knows what will be available.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

RoyK said:


> Which isn't something that needs to be a consideration until the time comes. By then who knows what will be available.


Until the time comes? A lot of channels are already converting - thus the impatients for mpeg4 update to the TiVo stream. An S3 model will not receive those channels.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bradleys said:


> *Until you cable company converts *to mpeg4 and then the S3 will be useless.


Conversion, when it occurs, isn't an overnight thing with no warning. I've been there which is the sole reason I bought a roamio. And I had it up and running three days after ordering it. Could have been the next day but I didn't spring for overnight shipping.

So while one might buy a roamio if it's features turn him on mpeg4 conversion need not be a consideration until it starts to affect him.

If I had the experience with a Roamio months ago when I bought it that I have now and had mpeg4 not begun to affect me I'd still be using my HDs.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

ajwees41 said:


> Season passes are gone from the Roamio and Premiere also was Tivo decision no way to get them back.


Actually if you set the Premiere back to the 'classic' SD interface the name does change back from Onepass to Season Pass.

And it _appears_ to offer the ability to set up multiple season passes. *However* this is misleading! In my testing even though it offered to set up a season pass on an additional channel, what my Elite _actually_ did was simply, and without warning or notification, alter the channel and settings for the current SP.

So using the Law and Order example, say you already had a 'new only' SP on NBC. So you find a showing on USA and pick the option to set a season pass for that channel, and set it for new & repeats. When you're done you'll no longer be recording shows from NBC, only from USA


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## Toddler (Dec 28, 2001)

I just thought I would reply back and confirm that setting up Season Passes on the S3 and transferring them to the Roamio enables me to have multiple OnePass recordings for a single show, with separate recording options such as new episodes only on NBC and repeats on another channel (or all channels, or streaming episides, etc.). So this is working out exactly as I'd hoped so far. I wish the engineers would enable this functionality through the Roamio interface, but we are happy with the Roamio otherwise.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I just posted a thread on this very topic... I don't have an S3 to use your workaround, so I am kinda stuck...

I guess this could be solved by simply buying a second basic recertified Roamio for $50, plus the $349.99 lifetime... Kind of an expensive solution though...

Do we know whether TiVo product management is aware of this need, and whether they have it on any future roadmap?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MikeekiM said:


> I just posted a thread on this very topic... I don't have an S3 to use your workaround, so I am kinda stuck...
> 
> I guess this could be solved by simply buying a second basic recertified Roamio for $50, plus the $349.99 lifetime... Kind of an expensive solution though...
> 
> Do we know whether TiVo product management is aware of this need, and whether they have it on any future roadmap?


Not only are they aware, they deliberately created the problem by disabling multiple season passes as a conscious (stupid) design decision..


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

MikeekiM said:


> I just posted a thread on this very topic... I don't have an S3 to use your workaround, so I am kinda stuck...
> 
> I guess this could be solved by simply buying a second basic recertified Roamio for $50, plus the $349.99 lifetime... Kind of an expensive solution though...
> 
> Do we know whether TiVo product management is aware of this need, and whether they have it on any future roadmap?


If they discover that people are doing this, they'll almost certainly treat it as a bug and "fix" it.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

IMHO they definitely need to fix this... It's a big gap... There are plenty of scenarios where you want to "catch up on reruns", but want to record all of the latest and greatest new showings...


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## Zaphod (Feb 18, 2003)

Just my 2 cents worth.

I just last night finally sprung to order my Roamio Plus after having two HDs since 2006, and a Series 1 before that.

I'm very disappointed to heard about this issue. I do some of the same thing. I will definitely try just transferring the SPs from my HD.

But another question now. If, with OnePass, I can no longer limit to a specific channel, what happens if I have both a SD and HD channel for the same channel from my cable company. Is it always going to record the program on the HD and SD channels at the same time? Do I just need to totally disable the SD channels then? (Although I never use them so I can't think of why I need to keep them enabled.)

Regarding the issue of having multiple OP's, if the only reason to prohibit multiple OP's for the same series is because of the streaming impacts, but it appears from other posts in this thread that there is an option in OP to disable streaming, then they could put a limit that only one OP for a given series can have streaming enabled. Or even allow creating and OP for ONLY streaming, thus allowing a separate OP for only local recording.


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## Zaphod (Feb 18, 2003)

Ha, I just noticed this other post about a software update.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=530236

Doesn't solve the main problem discussed here, but these other two smaller items I think were discussed in this thread (unless I'm getting confused with another thread) are the first two items in the list:

- You can now turn on a "Recordings" category in My Shows if you want a flat list of all of your recordings, sorted by date or name. Press the A button in My Shows to customize your categories.
- OnePass recording options now include a "Record: Everything" option, if you want to record all airings of a show, including duplicates.

Oh, and one other thing I was going to suggest to try to get this main issue fixed, sign up for the Tivo Advisors Panel and let your frustrations be heard through that survey.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Zaphod said:


> Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> I just last night finally sprung to order my Roamio Plus after having two HDs since 2006, and a Series 1 before that.
> But another question now. If, with OnePass, I can no longer limit to a specific channel, what happens if I have both a SD and HD channel for the same channel from my cable company. Is it always going to record the program on the HD and SD channels at the same time? Do I just need to totally disable the SD channels then? (Although I never use them so I can't think of why I need to keep them enabled.)


You can still limit a OP to a specific channel.

The problem comes in that since you can only have one OP per show you can limit that show to 1 channel or all channels. With SPs you could set up a couple and limit the show to 2 or 3 specific channels (one per SP).

But if you do have it set to all channels theres a "prefer HD" setting in it. The duplicates logic will keep it from recording the same episode from both channels, and the prefer HD setting will tell it to record from the channel carrying it in HD. But if you have reruns turned on any different episodes on syndicated on the SD channel(s) than the HD channel(s) then I _think_ you'd end up with some SD reruns. (I haven't actually tested that though, my OPs are all single channel, almost all are 'new only', and I don't have any SD channels selected anyway)


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## Zaphod (Feb 18, 2003)

Cool, thanks for the additional info!


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Zaphod said:


> Cool, thanks for the additional info!


Actually now that I'm in front of the TiVo I see there were a couple more options on the "Get in HD" setting. It actually has "Never", "If Possible", "Always".

So you have more control that I'd realized


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Jonathan_S said:


> Actually now that I'm in front of the TiVo I see there were a couple more options on the "Get in HD" setting. It actually has "Never", "If Possible", "Always".
> 
> So you have more control that I'd realized


For many cable systems these choices will only lead to bitter disappointment and failed recordings, because the HD flag that this function depends on will not be reliably set for programs that are in fact broadcast in HD.


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