# Xfinity dropping linear HD channels?



## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Over the weekend, my kid lost several Nick channels in the 1700 HD range. 
They are still available in SD on the lower channels. They are also still available in HD using the Xfinity stream app using the old channel numbers.
Is Xfinity dropping linear HD channels and moving them to X1 IP streaming channels? If so, the Tivo will be next to useless soon.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Over the weekend, my kid lost several Nick channels in the 1700 HD range.
> They are still available in SD on the lower channels. They are also still available in HD using the Xfinity stream app using the old channel numbers.
> Is Xfinity dropping linear HD channels and moving them to X1 IP streaming channels? If so, the Tivo will be next to useless soon.


Not sure how many they have dropped but I definitely know there are new ones that have been added that are IP only like Fox Sports 2 and Hallmark Drama, I'm sure there are a lot more.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Over the weekend, my kid lost several Nick channels in the 1700 HD range.
> They are still available in SD on the lower channels.


First, you DO realize that NOT all of the channels in the 1000+ range, are in fact HD? Those particular channels you're speaking of, have ALWAYS (unfortunately) been in SD, & all those same channels are simply duplicate #'s, of those same ones in the 2-3 digit legacy range, as part of Xfinity's standardized MCLU that's been around for 5+ years: (note below how they explain how HD & SD channels are handled in this lineup!)
New Channel Lineup Frequently Asked Questions - Xfinity


> *How will you handle SD and HD channels in the channel lineup? *
> The 1000+ channels will mostly consist of HD channels. When there is not an HD channel available for a certain network, an SD channel will be broadcast.





> They are also still available in HD using the Xfinity stream app using the old channel numbers.


They ARE actually there in HD, because Xfinity just recently added them in HD, but ONLY in IP/X1 only...hence why you ARE getting them on the stream (& Roku) platforms, as well as on all X1 boxes.

Unfortunately, when Xfinity adds these HD IP-only feeds, they are now (supposed to anyway) remove those duplicate 1000+ channel listing on all legacy TV boxes, including DTA's & cablecards - which obviously include Tivo's - presumably to avoid the confusion of having some boxes showing those 1000+ channels in SD & others in HD; this way, the ONLY people that actually can view those 1000+ IP-only feeds, ARE the ones with IP/X1 equipment. The issue happening now is...Comcast does seem to be doing this consistently on all their own boxes - but NOT on CC devices! Hence that Tivo's are now having channels appear in the 1000+ range, where it was previously SD-QAM, but now that that same ch# is now IP-only HD, & when you try to tune to them, you get nothing!
*You still have the (SD) versions of all these channels on your Tivo's, but now you'll have to view them down on their legacy channel positions.*



> Is Xfinity dropping linear HD channels and moving them to X1 IP streaming channels? If so, the Tivo will be next to useless soon.


Been talked about here & other boards ad nausea; right now it's more that any newly added HD channels (& even some new SD channels, actually) are being added ONLY in IP/X1; this offers some info:
Comcast IP not QAM?
As far as dropping existing HD channels, again been discussed ad nausea, with lots of people offering lots of opinions...but at this point, there really isn't much that's been nailed down on Xfinity's immediate future...but it's been VERY obvious for some time, it's pretty much most/all an IPTV future.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

OK Thanks. Just curious why Tivo guide data would show a channel that is not there, no longer there. You would think they would just remove the channel from the lineup. When Xfinity added FS2, in IP only, the Tivo added the new channel which shows no available when I try to tune it.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Davelnlr_ said:


> OK Thanks. Just curious why Tivo guide data would show a channel that is not there, no longer there. You would think they would just remove the channel from the lineup.


Because it's COMCAST'S job to actually let Tivo (Rovi) know their lineup(s) have changed - BOTH in channel adds AND deletions; how do you think Tivo's going to know otherwise? And frankly between these new IP-only channels & the fact that Comcast couldn't care less about CC users, it's not the least bit surprising there's errors in Tivo cable lineups across the country.


Davelnlr_ said:


> When Xfinity added FS2, in IP only, the Tivo added the new channel which shows no available when I try to tune it.


No, they did NOT add it in IP-only to the Tivo's; they *changed the existing 1000+ channel* *(1329 actually) to NOW be IP-only*...& because Comcast did NOT send the proper (channel removal) change to Rovi & it remains in the Tivo ch lineup, when you now tune to it, that's why you get N/A. (see my edit in my previous post above re: removal of IP-only 1000+ channels on legacy/Tivo equipment...)


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## Collin Groves (Apr 8, 2020)

Just to add they dropped all Linear SD League Pass, Center Ice and MLB this morning after 15 years.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

dishrich said:


> Because it's COMCAST'S job to actually let Tivo (Rovi) know their lineup(s) have changed - BOTH in channel adds AND deletions; how do you think Tivo's going to know otherwise? And frankly between these new IP-only channels & the fact that Comcast couldn't care less about CC users, it's not the least bit surprising there's errors in Tivo cable lineups across the country.
> 
> No, they did NOT add it in IP-only to the Tivo's; they *changed the existing 1000+ channel* *(1329 actually) to NOW be IP-only*...& because Comcast did NOT send the proper (channel removal) change to Rovi & it remains in the Tivo ch lineup, when you now tune to it, that's why you get N/A. (see my edit in my previous post above re: removal of IP-only 1000+ channels on legacy/Tivo equipment...)


Is it really Comcast's responsibility to send TiVo the channel lineup every time it changes? Who else are they supposed to notify?


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

mschnebly said:


> Is it really Comcast's responsibility to send TiVo the channel lineup every time it changes? Who else are they supposed to notify?


They technically need to update guide data providers


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

compnurd said:


> They technically need to update guide data providers


Others besides the one they use?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

My two pennies. I'm going to assume there is somebody at the networks and the guide providers that handle changes in programming. Sometimes a network makes a change and then they should send a message to all the guide providers (Gracenote, CBS Interactive, and more) that something happened.

Example of a network change: MSNBC, Sunday & Saturday mornings, change their programming two months ago. TiVo fixed the guide in a week.

Example of an unknown problem. Weekdays at 1pm MSNBC has changed their programming. The guide is still wrong after two months.

Example of a TiVo change: MSNBC, on the second Saturday in the guide, has TBA all day for the last two months.

I have sent lineup change requests on all. But it's possible that the guide people at not "essential" and can't do changes from home. But the people who stop encryption on the bunch of channels can work from home. I get more "free" channels almost every day.

Since the use of toilet paper has increased 40% at home, all those butts have eyeballs looking for content.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

mschnebly said:


> Others besides the one they use?


Comcast itself uses Gracenote on ALL it's settop boxes...so how do you think Rovi (ie: Tivo) is going to get this info???


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

I just didn't realize that a company like Comcast had a requirement to notify all the others out there. Is that an FCC requirement?


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

dishrich said:


> Comcast itself uses Gracenote on ALL it's settop boxes...so how do you think Rovi (ie: Tivo) is going to get this info???


I would think, since they are charging for the data, they would have someone compare their data to the other companies data? If they don't want to do this, they should just stop charging for guide data, and let customers subscribe to someone elses.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

They still list Starz when the channel is Epix. It's been over 4 months.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

schatham said:


> They still list Starz when the channel is Epix. It's been over 4 months.


When Rovi bought TiVo and took it's name, weren't there people who told us to give them a chance?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

We knew this was coming eventually. They've been preparing for this transition for years. Once Comcast drops QAM TiVos are going to drop in value significantly as the market is flooded with Comcast TiVo owners who can no longer use their devices. Maybe I'll be able to get a good deal on a Bolt for my Mom. She's still using a Premiere 4 tuner I gave her, but she's been complaining about how slow it is when trying to watch Netflix.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I have a feeling when Comcast drops QAM then TiVo will have an IPTV option for Comcast.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I have a feeling given Rovi's incompetence that Tivos will just die when QAM goes away.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

geekmedic said:


> I have a feeling when Comcast drops QAM then TiVo will have an IPTV option for Comcast.


If Comcast had any interest in making their IPTV platform available to TiVo I'm sure it would have already happened. But they'd much rather collect box rental fees from their customers.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> I have a feeling given Rovi's incompetence that Tivos will just die when QAM goes away.


Sadly, I have to agree with this outlook.



tim1724 said:


> If Comcast had any interest in making their IPTV platform available to TiVo I'm sure it would have already happened. *But they'd much rather collect box rental fees from their customers.*


I think that statement is a bit cynical in light of Comcast's current "Simple & Easy" fee structure that prices their rental STB's at just $5.00 p.m. regardless of the model--including the top-of-the-line 4K/HDR-capable Xi6. Add to that the fact that (1) CableCARD rental is free and (2) they have upped the Customer Owned Equipment (COE) credit to an identical $5.00, and I think the landscape is pretty even. They will even allow you to install and utilize their Xfinity Stream app on your own streaming device without charge (for now, at least) rather than having to rent one of their devices.

All in all, it seems to me that they are more interested in expanding the range of their video market penetration in this streaming age than they are in raking in rental fees.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Maybe I'll be able to get a good deal on a Bolt for my Mom. She's still using a Premiere 4 tuner I gave her, but she's been complaining about how slow it is when trying to watch Netflix.


Seriously, buy her a ROKU. After going through 3 Bolts (on the 4th now) due to hard drive failure, she is better off with the Premier. I have mine on the shelf. Next time this Bolt quits, Im just moving the cablecard back to the Premier and throwing the bolt in the trash.

Just out of curiosity, if I wanted to get a Xfinity X1 4K box, in addition to the cablecard, what is the charge? Im guessing Box rental plus a $12 outlet fee?


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Seriously, buy her a ROKU. After going through 3 Bolts (on the 4th now) due to hard drive failure, she is better off with the Premier. I have mine on the shelf. Next time this Bolt quits, Im just moving the cablecard back to the Premier and throwing the bolt in the trash.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, if I wanted to get a Xfinity X1 4K box, in addition to the cablecard, what is the charge? Im guessing Box rental plus a $12 outlet fee?


You need to have a 'local' conversation w/Xfinity. If you're near a contract end you can maybe negotiate a new deal BUT regardless they're interested in keeping you so it could be less than you might expect. An XG1V4 and a mini @ 0ne display and a Roamio/Bolt at another works very well.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

I still have a year on my Xfinity contract. After that, I am not sure what I will do. I really dislike that Xfinity converts everything to 720p. As far as I can tell, the only company left that doesnt bastardize the video quality is DirecTv, but WOW are they expensive now. Add to that the expense of having to use their modem/router instead of owning your own. I really wish someone would put up a satellite that was all 1080p and 4K, and no SD crap. Now I know how people with a Vette feel in a 55 MPH zone.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> Maybe I'll be able to get a good deal on a Bolt for my Mom.


Why not now? Can get used lifetime Bolts (usually white model), for under $300 at ebay, sometime close to $200. Used not a bad idea, at least tested, many "new" from Tivo have issues from what I read here. If drive has a lot of hours just replace it. Good to get the 4 tuner model as it can do cable or OTA, should maintain some value even if cable cards lose support completely (seems Comcast is accelerating that right now).


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Davelnlr_ said:


> I still have a year on my Xfinity contract. After that, I am not sure what I will do. I really dislike that Xfinity converts everything to 720p. As far as I can tell, the only company left that doesnt bastardize the video quality is DirecTv, but WOW are they expensive now. Add to that the expense of having to use their modem/router instead of owning your own. I really wish someone would put up a satellite that was all 1080p and 4K, and no SD crap. Now I know how people with a Vette feel in a 55 MPH zone.


The 55MPH 'ZONE' is just that a 'ZONE'!!! DirecTV ain't nothin' special for PQ either! I've a premium 64" 1080P Plasma and I have 'no issues' with Xfinity. Add an X1GV4 and be done - at least have the conversation. What is your primary display?


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Vizio M65-E0 4K with Bolt 4K. I mean, the PQ isn't horrible, its just noticeably not crisp as I would like. I also have a Tivo Premier OTA box, and when watching NBC or CBS, the quality of 1080i compared to Xfinity 720p downconvert is noticable.
As I understand it, all Xfinity streaming is also 720p, as are most of the other 'cord cutter' streaming cable services. I need to find a DISH demo, I know they reduce res too, but do not think its as bad a Xfinity.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

It sounds like sometime next month Afro, Cleo, Revolt, Aspire, BET Her, Unimas ALT, and Univision ALT will have HD IP channels. If you record on the 1000+ channels, it should stop working on the TiVo. Make sure to record the SD QAM channel in the lower channel numbers.

If I'm not mistaken. I may be misinterpreting something. Check your latest bill.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Good thing there's only like 4 people that would care about those.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Good thing there's only like 4 people that would care about those.


For now. This will affect all HD channels soon enough.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Folks have been saying that for years now. I agree btw, but Comcast moves slowly in this space.


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Folks have been saying that for years now. I agree btw, but Comcast moves slowly in this space.


No need to move until you need to re-purpose the bandwidth.

Comcast runs plants at 100% "allocation" for the bandwidth it has (600mhz-1ghz depending on market). So it makes sense that they are so far sticking to new channels when switching to IPTV, but as they start increasing internet bandwidth speeds that will move more channels to IPTV. Comcast knows, their future is mostly as an ISP. And the reality is, they can deliver the entire platform over IP (they actually already do this if you use X1 hardware). As old hardware "dies" and new packages are offered, they aren't offering the "old" hardware anymore and moving everyone to X1.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

mntvjunkie said:


> No need to move until you need to re-purpose the bandwidth.
> 
> Comcast runs plants at 100% "allocation" for the bandwidth it has (600mhz-1ghz depending on market). So it makes sense that they are so far sticking to new channels when switching to IPTV, but as they start increasing internet bandwidth speeds that will move more channels to IPTV. Comcast knows, their future is mostly as an ISP. And the reality is, they can deliver the entire platform over IP (they actually already do this if you use X1 hardware). As old hardware "dies" and new packages are offered, they aren't offering the "old" hardware anymore and moving everyone to X1.


Moving those, who don't drop Comcast, to the X1, you mean. If that were to happen. I think it'd annoy so many people. Not just TiVo users, but those with the old legacy DVRs.


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

TKnight206 said:


> Moving those, who don't drop Comcast, to the X1, you mean. If that were to happen. I think it'd annoy so many people. Not just TiVo users, but those with the old legacy DVRs.


The only people it will annoy are cablecard users. Anyone still renting an old Comcast DVR would likely welcome the upgrade to X1, and it won't cost them any extra (actually in most areas they are making the new IPTV packages CHEAPER by dropping box rental and DVR fees entirely). The old boxes can't get On Demand anymore, and are probably due for replacement anyway.

Some will cancel, that was likely regardless. But at this point, if anyone outside of a cable card user is annoyed, I would be surprised. The X1 platform is close in functionality to TiVo, and the cloud DVR features are pretty nice (to the point that the DVRs they are pushing now don't even have hard drives in them).


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

mntvjunkie said:


> The only people it will annoy are cablecard users. Anyone still renting an old Comcast DVR would likely welcome the upgrade to X1, and it won't cost them any extra (actually in most areas they are making the new IPTV packages CHEAPER by dropping box rental and DVR fees entirely). The old boxes can't get On Demand anymore, and are probably due for replacement anyway.
> 
> Some will cancel, that was likely regardless. But at this point, if anyone outside of a cable card user is annoyed, I would be surprised. The X1 platform is close in functionality to TiVo, and *the cloud DVR features are pretty nice *(to the point that the DVRs they are pushing now don't even have hard drives in them).


They are upgrading cloud DVR from 60 hours to 150 hours.

Comcast beefs up cloud DVR storage | Light Reading


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## 172pilot (Jan 8, 2004)

I just spent 90 minutes between chatting online and on the phone, just trying to increase my Internet speed, and they wont do it unless I give up my tivos and cable cards, and take their box. They tell me they dont support or offer "Legacy" cable cards anymore and they can't change my plan. I have a 6 tuner unit and 3 MINIs that are about to be useless I guess. She offered me all kinds of X1 and ROKU solutions, but I said "if I have to get rid of my tivo anyway, I'm going Satellite" figuring that might get them to give in, but no.. They REFUSED to change my plan at all if I didn't give up the cable cards. I didn't think this was legal (and even mentioned it) but ended up hanging up frustrated..



chiguy50 said:


> All in all, it seems to me that they are more interested in expanding the range of their video market penetration in this streaming age than they are in raking in rental fees.


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## justinw (Jan 31, 2007)

Maybe you should contact someone from Comcast Direct on the DSL forums.. saw this on the site in another thread:

Comcast Direct forum | DSLReports, ISP Information

If you make a post in that forum only people from Comcast can read it.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

justinw said:


> Maybe you should contact someone from Comcast Direct on the DSL forums..


Another option is to try one of the retail stores in person. For some reason, the staff there seem to be more helpful / knowledgeable / powerful. There are stores in Riverdale and Jessup (both off U.S. 1), just to name the ones I've personally been to. I got upgraded to Gigabit at the Riverdale store when they wouldn't do it over the phone.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

172pilot said:


> I just spent 90 minutes between chatting online and on the phone, just trying to increase my Internet speed, and they wont do it unless I give up my tivos and cable cards, and take their box. They tell me they dont support or offer "Legacy" cable cards anymore and they can't change my plan. I have a 6 tuner unit and 3 MINIs that are about to be useless I guess. She offered me all kinds of X1 and ROKU solutions, but I said "if I have to get rid of my tivo anyway, I'm going Satellite" figuring that might get them to give in, but no.. They REFUSED to change my plan at all if I didn't give up the cable cards. I didn't think this was legal (and even mentioned it) but ended up hanging up frustrated..


You were given a crock of BS. I second the advice below and recommend that you give a more knowledgeable rep a chance to get you the service you need. Without knowing the specifics of your current plan or your location there's not much pertinent advice we can offer here other than to suggest that you try a face-to-face (or facemask-to-facemask) encounter.



wmcbrine said:


> Another option is to try one of the retail stores in person. For some reason, the staff there seem to be more helpful / knowledgeable / powerful. There are stores in Riverdale and Jessup (both off U.S. 1), just to name the ones I've personally been to. I got upgraded to Gigabit at the Riverdale store when they wouldn't do it over the phone.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> You were given a crock of BS. I second the advice below and recommend that you give a more knowledgeable rep a chance to get you the service you need. Without knowing the specifics of your current plan or your location there's not much pertinent advice we can offer here other than to suggest that you try a face-to-face (or facemask-to-facemask) encounter.


Agreed you should try again. I was able to get gigabit internet and still have my cable card and no Comcast boxes and a better deal than I had previously. Just have to keep trying.


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

172pilot said:


> I just spent 90 minutes between chatting online and on the phone, just trying to increase my Internet speed, and they wont do it unless I give up my tivos and cable cards, and take their box. They tell me they dont support or offer "Legacy" cable cards anymore and they can't change my plan. I have a 6 tuner unit and 3 MINIs that are about to be useless I guess. She offered me all kinds of X1 and ROKU solutions, but I said "if I have to get rid of my tivo anyway, I'm going Satellite" figuring that might get them to give in, but no.. They REFUSED to change my plan at all if I didn't give up the cable cards. I didn't think this was legal (and even mentioned it) but ended up hanging up frustrated..


Just sign up online and then return, by UPS, the X1 box or boxes they send you and just keep your current setup. I've upgraded my plan several times over the last 2 years and always take the Xfinity equipment, return equipment and keep my cable cards.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

172pilot said:


> I just spent 90 minutes between chatting online and on the phone, just trying to increase my Internet speed, and they wont do it unless I give up my tivos and cable cards, and take their box. They tell me they dont support or offer "Legacy" cable cards anymore and they can't change my plan. I have a 6 tuner unit and 3 MINIs that are about to be useless I guess. She offered me all kinds of X1 and ROKU solutions, but I said "if I have to get rid of my tivo anyway, I'm going Satellite" figuring that might get them to give in, but no.. They REFUSED to change my plan at all if I didn't give up the cable cards. I didn't think this was legal (and even mentioned it) but ended up hanging up frustrated..


What speed are you trying to upgrade to? I just upgraded to Blast, my own modem, and kept my Cablecard. To be honest, with Peacock only available on X1, and the different channels and new channels being offered on X1, I just ordered an X1 4K DVR to go along with my Tivo and minis for an extra $15 per month. I figured I would try that out for a year until my contract is up for renewal, and decide at that time if I want to switch to AT&T fiber they just laid in front of the house, and DirecTv. I am kind of peeved Xfinity offers 4K boxes, and then reduce the resolution from 1080 to 720 on all channels. At least DirecTv keeps the channels at 1080i, and offers a couple 4K channels.


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## Doc Holiday (Dec 31, 2016)

wmcbrine said:


> Another option is to try one of the retail stores in person. For some reason, the staff there seem to be more helpful / knowledgeable / powerful.


The retail store route worked for me. I went to upgrade my internet speed from 175 to 600 Mbps with Xfinity and the person on the phone insisted I take the X1 and return my cablecard. I politely said, "No thanks" and went to the retail store. One of the staff there was able to set me up with the faster speed, delete the X1, and waived the monthly cable card fee. They didn't even flinch. I just said I wanted to migrate plans and keep my existing equipment. With the current promotions my new monthly rate is cheaper, too. This was in the Portland, OR area.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Just an update on my X1 DVR addition...
NASCAR was rained out yesterday. They rescheduled for Mon at 2pm. I scheduled a manual record on the TIVO for 4.5 hours since they usually never pick up rescheduled sporting events. I was correct, the manual record was labeled with the FOX show that was originally scheduled. At the 4.5 hour mark, with 16 laps to go, "DELETE or KEEP". Damn. Wondered, maybe the X1 box recorded it... Keep in mind all I have done on the X1 box is told it to record all Nascar races. Well, it recorded the race. With the correct Title =AND= it recorded not only the entire race, but about an hour more. All by itself. That made up my mind. Im keeping the X1. And Roku boxes are a LOT cheaper than Mini's and work exactly the same with the X1. Tivo better get their act together.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Doc Holiday said:


> The retail store route worked for me. I went to upgrade my internet speed from 175 to 600 Mbps.


I've also had good luck with getting upgrades and lower prices when I visit my local Xfinity store.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Just an update on my X1 DVR addition...
> NASCAR was rained out yesterday. They rescheduled for Mon at 2pm. I scheduled a manual record on the TIVO for 4.5 hours since they usually never pick up rescheduled sporting events. I was correct, the manual record was labeled with the FOX show that was originally scheduled. At the 4.5 hour mark, with 16 laps to go, "DELETE or KEEP". Damn. Wondered, maybe the X1 box recorded it... Keep in mind all I have done on the X1 box is told it to record all Nascar races. Well, it recorded the race. With the correct Title =AND= it recorded not only the entire race, but about an hour more. All by itself. That made up my mind. Im keeping the X1. And Roku boxes are a LOT cheaper than Mini's and work exactly the same with the X1. Tivo better get their act together.


The X1 boxes actually do serve some 'specialty' purposing. I ain't ready to toss TiVo though. I've my XG1V4 via HDMI splitter to another room. 7/21 and Xfinity agreement might necessitate reconsideration.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Just an update on my X1 DVR addition...
> NASCAR was rained out yesterday. They rescheduled for Mon at 2pm. I scheduled a manual record on the TIVO for 4.5 hours since they usually never pick up rescheduled sporting events. I was correct, the manual record was labeled with the FOX show that was originally scheduled. At the 4.5 hour mark, with 16 laps to go, "DELETE or KEEP". Damn. Wondered, maybe the X1 box recorded it... Keep in mind all I have done on the X1 box is told it to record all Nascar races. Well, it recorded the race. With the correct Title =AND= it recorded not only the entire race, but about an hour more. All by itself. That made up my mind. Im keeping the X1. And Roku boxes are a LOT cheaper than Mini's and work exactly the same with the X1. Tivo better get their act together.


that's nifty. even after getting updated guide data that afternoon TiVo didn't pick up on the race being moved to monday.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

I did notice on the Stream app, I was at the doctors office and at 3:30, I tried to watch the 3:00 recording on MSNBC which was still recording, and the stream app told me I couldnt, due to copyright issues [???]. Either its on drugs, or didnt like the fact that I was on a VPN. It would let me watch live, but not from the beginning which does not make sense if it was a VPN issue. So I loaded the Tivo app, and streamed it from the beginning. Each has its own perks I guess.


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## seaninde (Sep 23, 2019)

mntvjunkie said:


> The only people it will annoy are cablecard users. Anyone still renting an old Comcast DVR would likely welcome the upgrade to X1, and it won't cost them any extra (actually in most areas they are making the new IPTV packages CHEAPER by dropping box rental and DVR fees entirely). The old boxes can't get On Demand anymore, and are probably due for replacement anyway.
> 
> Some will cancel, that was likely regardless. But at this point, if anyone outside of a cable card user is annoyed, I would be surprised. The X1 platform is close in functionality to TiVo, and the cloud DVR features are pretty nice (to the point that the DVRs they are pushing now don't even have hard drives in them).


Not true. My old Legacy Motorola DVR gives the clearest best picture I have ever seen. I tried X1 and the web DVR has so much compression the picture downgraded massively. Yes the X1 interface is nicer, but picture quality is significantly subpar. Problem is most people don't actually know what a good picture looks like with their cheap TV and crappy X1, so the masses don't know what they are missing. I have been in comcast stores and their TV's are running with horrible picture quality. I didn't pay 5000 for a high performance TV to see a crappy picture on it.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Your old legacy DVR cannot possibly provide a better resolution since the entirety of Xfinity (unless you are in some rare location) has converted everything to 720p. Cablecard gets 720p, X1 gets 720p, and legacy DVRs get 720p. 
Now it is possible your old DVR has better upscaling? Also possible your old DVR is just passing the 720p to your TV and its doing the upscaling? In which case you would want to set the X1 to 720p, not 4K. On a 65" monitor, I notice no PQ difference between Roku using finity stream app, Tivo Bolt at 4K output, or X1 at 4K output. They all look decent. Only Directv had a better picture, but it was almost twice the price when all told here. If you can figure out why the old DVR has a better picture, and match the X1 settings to it, the X1 should look the same. Another possibility is the input the old DVR is on was calibrated different on your TV than the input for the X1?
It is a challenge to get 720p to look good on a >55" monitor, but its possible.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

mntvjunkie said:


> The only people it will annoy are cablecard users. Anyone still renting an old Comcast DVR would likely welcome the upgrade to X1, and *it won't cost them any extra (actually in most areas they are making the new IPTV packages CHEAPER by dropping box rental and DVR fees entirely*). The old boxes can't get On Demand anymore, and are probably due for replacement anyway.


I can't speak to the current state of affairs in your Comcast region, but the corporate-wide movement is actually in quite the opposite direction. Their newest fee structure ("Simple & Easy") is an a la carte system with add-on packs and separate charges for any customer-provided equipment (with the exception of the free Flex (Xi6) STB for some HSI-only customers). You can expect to see this system coming to your area since the concept is to standardize billing throughout the Xfinity footprint, although it is a work in progress and may prove difficult to fully implement.

As a case in point, in the California region as of this month customers whose legacy bundle deals included a STB or DVR were notified that their billing statements would henceforth include a standard charge for the equipment with an offsetting credit for the length of their current agreement.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Your old legacy DVR cannot possibly provide a better resolution since the entirety of Xfinity (unless you are in some rare location) has converted everything to 720p. Cablecard gets 720p, X1 gets 720p, and legacy DVRs get 720p.
> Now it is possible your old DVR has better upscaling? Also possible your old DVR is just passing the 720p to your TV and its doing the upscaling?


I agree with sean to a point...the reason why, is because the newer, legacy boxes (the DCX series) can be set to NATIVE P/T, which the Tivo's can as well...but NONE of the X1 boxes can. (I have both a Tivo & Moto DCX3501, so I can see for myself) Because P/T makes the box NOT do any processing of the original signal & passes the native signal directly to the TV, that is why we're saying the picture quality is & can be better than the X1. 
*Now that being said*...I am NOT saying it looks better than say, DirecTV - just saying that having P/T capability, does allow you to eek out at least better picture quality, than having the (X1) box do processing.
Now if you don't actually set the legacy box to P/T...then all bets are off...


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## seaninde (Sep 23, 2019)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Your old legacy DVR cannot possibly provide a better resolution since the entirety of Xfinity (unless you are in some rare location) has converted everything to 720p. Cablecard gets 720p, X1 gets 720p, and legacy DVRs get 720p.
> Now it is possible your old DVR has better upscaling? Also possible your old DVR is just passing the 720p to your TV and its doing the upscaling? In which case you would want to set the X1 to 720p, not 4K. On a 65" monitor, I notice no PQ difference between Roku using finity stream app, Tivo Bolt at 4K output, or X1 at 4K output. They all look decent. Only Directv had a better picture, but it was almost twice the price when all told here. If you can figure out why the old DVR has a better picture, and match the X1 settings to it, the X1 should look the same. Another possibility is the input the old DVR is on was calibrated different on your TV than the input for the X1?
> It is a challenge to get 720p to look good on a >55" monitor, but its possible.


I don't know but when we switched out the Motorola dvr with the X1, it was horrible. The technician said it was because the web DVR has to compress the signal so much, where the local hard drive based one does not. So because it has to go to the cloud for everything in order to be able to do pause live tv, its always compressed. The picture with the Motorola is stunning and the TV says its receiving 1080p from the cable box. The Sony top of the line XBR's do great upscaling, I doubt the DVR upscales. Its like everything gets fuzzy when using X1. Same input into TV and also same 4K capable HDMI cable. But its definitely a downgrade in PQ. The Tivo Bolt I got for the bedroom is way better then the X1 DVR, but not as good as the Motorola Box.


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

chiguy50 said:


> I can't speak to the current state of affairs in your Comcast region, but the corporate-wide movement is actually in quite the opposite direction. Their newest fee structure ("Simple & Easy") is an a la carte system with add-on packs and separate charges for any customer-provided equipment (with the exception of the free Flex (Xi6) STB for some HSI-only customers). You can expect to see this system coming to your area since the concept is to standardize billing throughout the Xfinity footprint, although it is a work in progress and may prove difficult to fully implement.
> 
> As a case in point, in the California region as of this month customers whose legacy bundle deals included a STB or DVR were notified that their billing statements would henceforth include a standard charge for the equipment with an offsetting credit for the length of their current agreement.
> 
> ...


I noticed that myself a few days ago. The DVR service itself is now included at no extra charge, but to get a box there is an extra charge.

It feels to me that Xfinity is moving to a boxless future, but they aren't really there yet. Theoretically, they could just create apps for all of the major platforms, and I could just sign in to the app and not need a separate box. Yes, this could lead to less revenue for Xfinity, but also would remove a huge cost center for them. The transition could be pretty smooth (free Roku when you sign up for a year, etc), and would put the service on par with the new IPTV services. They could make up for SOME of the lost revenue by charging for more DVR space (I think they are already doing this in some markets).

In that context, the "decoupling" makes sense, as it means that people who only ever use the stream app aren't subsidizing the people who have boxes. (It's a similar model to what Pizza places did a few years ago by adding a "delivery fee" to the order) Of course, unless you have a certain TV or a Roku, this is all just theory, but hopefully it means the app is coming to more platforms in the future (they just added Chromecast support recently).


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mntvjunkie said:


> I noticed that myself a few days ago. The DVR service itself is now included at no extra charge, but to get a box there is an extra charge.
> 
> It feels to me that Xfinity is moving to a boxless future, but they aren't really there yet. Theoretically, they could just create apps for all of the major platforms, and I could just sign in to the app and not need a separate box. Yes, this could lead to less revenue for Xfinity, but also would remove a huge cost center for them. The transition could be pretty smooth (free Roku when you sign up for a year, etc), and would put the service on par with the new IPTV services. They could make up for SOME of the lost revenue by charging for more DVR space (I think they are already doing this in some markets).
> 
> In that context, the "decoupling" makes sense, as it means that people who only ever use the stream app aren't subsidizing the people who have boxes. (It's a similar model to what Pizza places did a few years ago by adding a "delivery fee" to the order) Of course, unless you have a certain TV or a Roku, this is all just theory, but hopefully it means the app is coming to more platforms in the future (they just added Chromecast support recently).


The thing is they heavily advertise the voice feature on their remote. Not all manufacturers have voice capability and I am sure they would like a unified experience.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mntvjunkie said:


> I noticed that myself a few days ago. The DVR service itself is now included at no extra charge, but to get a box there is an extra charge.


Yeah, that's how they're packaging and pricing TV service here in TN, although the included cloud DVR only includes 20 hours of storage. To get more, you have to add DVR service for an extra $10/mo.



mntvjunkie said:


> It feels to me that Xfinity is moving to a boxless future, but they aren't really there yet. Theoretically, they could just create apps for all of the major platforms, and I could just sign in to the app and not need a separate box. Yes, this could lead to less revenue for Xfinity, but also would remove a huge cost center for them. The transition could be pretty smooth (free Roku when you sign up for a year, etc), and would put the service on par with the new IPTV services. They could make up for SOME of the lost revenue by charging for more DVR space (I think they are already doing this in some markets).
> 
> In that context, the "decoupling" makes sense, as it means that people who only ever use the stream app aren't subsidizing the people who have boxes. (It's a similar model to what Pizza places did a few years ago by adding a "delivery fee" to the order) Of course, unless you have a certain TV or a Roku, this is all just theory, but hopefully it means the app is coming to more platforms in the future (they just added Chromecast support recently).


Yeah, I kinda think this is the direction Comcast is going. But they're very proud of their X1 platform and would prefer folks to use it. What I can see them doing is more or less what AT&T TV does, which is to include your first X1 box (the Xi6 4K HDR IPTV/streaming box) at no additional cost. And then rent you additional boxes, if you want them, at $5/mo each.

Right now, they charge their cable TV customers $5/mo even for the first X1 box. But oddly, if you're a standalone broadband customer (like me), they'll give you one of those boxes -- under the brand name Flex (it's the exact same Xi6 box, just running a slightly different software package) -- for free. I think my Flex box offers a way to immediately add Comcast cable TV service to my account with a few clicks of the remote. In which case, the software package on the box would shift over to the normal X1 platform and they'd begin charging me $5/mo for the box, in addition to my newly added TV service.

At some point, I think Comcast just issues one of those boxes for free to each of their customers, regardless of whether they get broadband-only or broadband+TV. And if the customer wants additional boxes, they can rent them for $5/mo each. For their cable TV customers, service will be IPTV-only and DVR will be cloud-only. The entire TV service will be accessible via the Xfinity Stream app on other devices (e.g. Roku, etc.) but they'll always engineer it so that their own X1 box offers the best user experience. (Gotta make it worth the extra $5/box to rent an additional units for your secondary TVs.) Depending on whether you have cable TV service on your account at any given time, the home screen UI of the box will either reflect your cable TV service (X1) or streaming apps (Flex).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Their newest fee structure ("Simple & Easy") is an a la carte system with add-on packs and separate charges for any customer-provided equipment (with the exception of the free Flex (Xi6) STB for some HSI-only customers).


Hey chiguy, I just took a gander at the latest local Comcast rate card and it now lists two different DVR service tiers. There's the $10/mo "DVR Service" as before but now there's also a "Premium DVR Service" for $20/mo. Know what this latter one is about?

I read recently that Comcast is increasing their cloud DVR from 60 hours to 150 hours but my understanding is that's happening at no additional charge, i.e. an improvement to the $10/mo DVR Service.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Your old legacy DVR cannot possibly provide a better resolution since the entirety of Xfinity (unless you are in some rare location) has converted everything to 720p. Cablecard gets 720p, X1 gets 720p, and legacy DVRs get 720p. our TV than the input for the X1?
> It is a challenge to get 720p to look good on a >55" monitor, but its possible.


That's not true here (Minneapolis). According to my TV, on some channels Xfinity/Comcast sends 720p, on others 1080i.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's not true here (Minneapolis). According to my TV, on some channels Xfinity/Comcast sends 720p, on others 1080i.


Even after Comcast switched all cable channels to 720p a few years ago, they left those locals broadcasting in 1080i at 1080i. But then they began switching those over too, market by market. I thought they had gone through all the markets by now but I guess they haven't gotten to Minneapolis yet. So my guess is that the channels you're still seeing in 1080i are only your local CBS, NBC, PBS, CW and Univision stations.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Hey chiguy, I just took a gander at the latest local Comcast rate card and it now lists two different DVR service tiers. There's the $10/mo "DVR Service" as before but now there's also a "Premium DVR Service" for $20/mo. Know what this latter one is about?
> 
> I read recently that Comcast is increasing their cloud DVR from 60 hours to 150 hours but my understanding is that's happening at no additional charge, i.e. an improvement to the $10/mo DVR Service.


The basic cloud DVR recording capacity of 20 hours is still included at no additional charge with the various CATV service tiers. You can sign up for an increase to 150 hours (formerly 60 hours) for $10 or 300 hours for $20. See also the footnotes that apply to these entries on your rate card as there are some restrictions regarding which service tiers qualify.

ETA: On an unrelated note, Comcast just increased their data limit from 1TB to 1.2TB.


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## justinw (Jan 31, 2007)

Just got an email from Comcast with a link to a PDF - 'Important Information for Xfinity TV Customers' . This was a full page document about service problems, billing complaints, etc. But, what I found interesting, was this little blurb:

_If you have a TiVo digital cable-ready DVR, you can access switched digital video services by obtaining a "tuning adapter" device. If you have a TiVo DVR
or other digital cable-ready devices, you will need a TV Box, TV Adapter, or CableCARD from us to access switched digital video and other two-way cable
services. Upon your request, we will provide you with the technical parameters necessary for a navigation device rented or acquired from retail outlets to
operate with our system. Because of the need to protect our Xfinity TV service, we will not authorize the use of a navigation device that does not conform to
all required signal security specifications. For information regarding other navigation devices, please go to Comcast Customer Service - Xfinity Technical Support._

I've had Comcast for 10 years with Tivos and never needed a tuning adapter. It seems that appears to be changing?


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

NOT a chance in hell; it's basically a "boiler plate" doc that Comcast has obviously NOT updated specifically for their (non-SDV) systems. NO Comcast system has ever used a TA, & since they are moving TV over to IP-based video, there is certainly NO need for it now.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

dishrich said:


> NO Comcast system has ever used a TA


The actually piloted them in at least two areas, about 12 years ago, during their ill-fated initial run at SDV. We were all worried the world was going to end. But as you say, it was not a strategy they chose to pursue.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

dishrich said:


> NOT a chance in hell; it's basically a "boiler plate" doc that Comcast has obviously NOT updated specifically for their (non-SDV) systems. NO Comcast system has ever used a TA, & since they are moving TV over to IP-based video, there is certainly NO need for it now.


This, from October 2017, should set your mind at ease, I hope.
Important Information For Video Customers

But it probably doesn't hurt to call up and ask if there are any changes coming in your area. Let's hope not. As a TiVo-owner myself, paranoia can run rampant. It's unnerving to even see IP-only channels added to my lineup with the worry that one day, perhaps linear QAM may be gone. Thankfully, for the _most_ part, it seems to be an addition, and not necessarily a subtraction.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm not the OP that was worried in the first place; again, IP is totally where Comcast is going.
FWIW though, I was a little surprised that Comcast just yesterday, added the new Marquee Network, IN QAM (HD)...so obviously they're not 100% rigid on ditching QAM yet. (I'm sure that was part of the intense negotiations that Sinclair insisted on for carriage)


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dishrich said:


> FWIW though, I was a little surprised that Comcast just yesterday, added the new Marquee Network, IN QAM (HD)...so obviously they're not 100% rigid on ditching QAM yet.
> View attachment 51101


It is my understanding that Comcast chooses IPTV/Linear QAM based on the location specific requirements (expected viewership and devices). And remember that devices like HD-DTAs require linear QAM. One example I recall seeing in the past was the Pac-12 network was linear QAM in the regions where the participant schools are primarily located, and IPTV elsewhere (where the viewership is likely lower, and the requiring a full X1 box is likely not considered a big issue). So, as always, location, location, location.


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