# 22 years of TIVO... Too Bad it's Over.



## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

I'm done. Since my first Tivo box in 1999, I have been a huge fanboy. Heck, I even have Tivo flipflops. 

Unfortunately, my last Tivo device will be the ridiculous Edge. It started rebooting, and since there's no customer service on the weekends, I had to wait until Monday to call. Then I was told it was a known issue (the reboot is somehow caused by the internet connection)and they woule LET ME KNOW when it's fixed. So, no function since last Monday. Tomorrow will be a week.

But even before that, the Edge had been failing to record shows, not connecting with remotes, not connecting to the Tivo minis around the house, and let's not even TALK about how they changed the god damned remote button functionality. (WHY???) 

So after posting in the Edge forum a lot of this similar ranting, I just snapped and ordered an Amazon Fire TV Recast. 4 tuners, no monthly fee, and works with all my Echo devices and Fire TV sticks. I'm hoping I can take all the Tivo devices to the recycler soon. 

Just another bunch of plastic and silicon on top of the pile of Laser Disc players I guess.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yeah, as a longtime Tivo user unfortunately you bought the wrong box with the wrong UI. Would've been fine if you'd stopped at the Roamio.


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## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah, as a longtime Tivo user unfortunately you bought the wrong box with the wrong UI. Would've been fine if you'd stopped at the Roamio.


Yep. You said it. I put the Roamio back into the rack for now. Next will be to rollback Hydra if I still can. Aptly named interface.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

MannyE said:


> Yep. You said it. I put the Roamio back into the rack for now. Next will be to rollback Hydra if I still can. Aptly named interface.


You can, at the price of wiping your device:
How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


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## Larsenv (Jun 8, 2020)

Why do people like to come to this forum to just rant about them ditching TiVo? :-/


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Larsenv said:


> Why do people like to come to this forum to just rant about them ditching TiVo? :-/


They keep getting past security somehow


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Larsenv said:


> Why do people like to come to this forum to just rant about them ditching TiVo? :-/



Perhaps they want to check if they made the right choice by expressing their reasons and seeing if they are refuted.
Or maybe they want to express their displeasure, hoping that someone responsible at TiVo will take note and make changes or at least regret their actions. (Spoiler alert: TiVo has long abandoned us here!)
But most likely, IMO, they just want to troll the fanboi and get a reaction.
The last hope, at least, has been fulfilled.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> they just want to troll the fanboi and get a reaction


Or perhaps it's just a sad event and they're looking for _something_ from the "Tivo community" to ease or at least sense some understanding of the loss. Where else are they supposed to look for that?

It's sometimes hard to understand early Tivo adopters. It may now seem like Tivo is just an obscure footnote in history; but Tivo was a great big deal, a gamer changer, a real entertainment revolution; and after those wonderful first couple of years still a very serviceable platform for nearly 20 years! This is not a passing to be taken trivially.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Or it's just a way and a place to vent frustration that something so wonderful is coming to an end. Or perhaps as ej stated, there's some way of changing their mind about the decision and there's a way to get TiVo back in service for them.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

The OP provided a service to others even thinking about getting an Edge. You know its bad when most (if not all) cable companies support is better. Just another nail in the TiVo coffin.

I get a bigger kick out of the TE3 gestapo kicking in...... It's almost like a religious cult here.  Rolling back to TE3 would have zero affect on the issue the OP is having.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Larsenv said:


> Why do people like to come to this forum to just rant about them ditching TiVo? :-/


no different than someone posting in a Dish Network forum that they are leaving Dish due to ___________


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

tommiet said:


> I get a bigger kick out of the TE3 gestapo kicking in...... It's almost like a religious cult here.  Rolling back to TE3 would have zero affect on the issue the OP is having.


Obviously you didn't read all of OP's first post.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Obviously you didn't read all of OP's first post.


It was the OP's _second_ post he didn't read. One out of two ain't bad, probably above average.


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## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

Just to be clear, it's a way to vent frustration.

And the rollback would be on the Roamio, which isn't powerful enough to run Hydra (I think that's pronounced "Schitt") plus Hydra's remote changes are just garbage but I can see if you're new to Tivo perhaps through Comcast, how you would see this as a bunch of Boomers telling you to get off their lawn. It's not that. 

Tivo obviously doesn't care about the end users of the hardware anymore and especially OTA users. The move to eliminate 4 tuner OTA boxes is basically Tivo telling us to F off. Too bad, because streaming (hopefully) will kill off their cable overlords. I'm surprised this forum is still active.

And I could care less about trolling the fanboi, (sigh) because I am (was) a huge fanboy. I spent hours beta testing in the early 2000s because it was the best. I had one of the original Phillips units, a GXCEBOT, Premier, Roamio and finally the Edge (also pronounced "Schitt" I believe) I even owned a bunch of stock when that was a thing. Talk about going to the moon! 

So yeah, I'm sad.

EDIT. Recast arrived today. I'll report back if it proves promising.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

MannyE said:


> I'm surprised this forum is still active.


Heh. Sure it is. But lately many of us are here to talk about the Recast, Channels DVR, and other TiVo alternatives.


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## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Heh. Sure it is. But lately many of us are here to talk about the Recast, Channels DVR, and other TiVo alternatives.


Yeah. I have hope for the Recast. The only annoying thing (and really it's the ONLY thing) that I saw with the Fire TV is that you HAVE to go to the guide to change channels if you're watching live. Something I rarely do these days anyway. I don't know if Recast fixes this, but it's a minor annoyance. I'll set up the Recast over the weekend.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Original content is the name of the game. TiVo needs creative programming like The Truman Show and bang instant billions over night.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

MannyE said:


> Yeah. I have hope for the Recast. The only annoying thing (and really it's the ONLY thing) that I saw with the Fire TV is that you HAVE to go to the guide to change channels if you're watching live. Something I rarely do these days anyway. I don't know if Recast fixes this, but it's a minor annoyance. I'll set up the Recast over the weekend.


You can probably change channels in multiple views, using Alexa, your phone/tablet, or the actual remote, but I don't know much about it. There are long threads about Recast on TCF, for example here and here. Looking forward to hearing how you like it. If you want to explore further, we've been discussing TiVo alternatives here for years.


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## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

Larsenv said:


> Why do people like to come to this forum to just rant about them ditching TiVo? :-/


Personally, I appreciate knowing about TiVo customers' frustrations. His post was a lot more informative than yours.


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## Larsenv (Jun 8, 2020)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Heh. Sure it is. But lately many of us are here to talk about the Recast, Channels DVR, and other TiVo alternatives.


I think there's a lot of people who still talk on this forum if they don't use TiVo anymore because of the community and the friendships they've made. If people are planning trips on cruise ships with members of this forum, that shows some dedication.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Personally, I appreciate knowing about TiVo customers' frustrations. His post was a lot more informative than yours.


Do you think that TiVo hasn't done the best job keeping up with the times? I'm thankful they're still around.


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## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

Larsenv said:


> I think there's a lot of people who still talk on this forum if they don't use TiVo anymore because of the community and the friendships they've made. If people are planning trips on cruise ships with members of this forum, that shows some dedication.
> 
> Do you think that TiVo hasn't done the best job keeping up with the times? I'm thankful they're still around.


I do believe they have but, that's just me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is apparent that the OP has finally had enough bad experiences that he is now dropping TiVo. I hope he has shared those experiences with someone at TiVo and, if he has, I hope TiVo realizes the seriousness of losing what was a devoted customer. What I don't understand and what I disagree with is, when these types of posts occur (frustrated TiVo customers venting and in cases like this one, actually leaving TiVo after a couple of decades of use), people reply with useless comments like, "Why do people come to this forum just to rant about ditching TiVo?" A lot of those "rants" provide useful information such as where the former TiVo users are going for their DVR needs. There will come a day when TiVo no longer suits my needs (eg: if/WHEN cable companies stop CableCard use) and I'd like to have an alternative game plan in mind when that happens.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

It would be nice if TiVo took this stuff to heart. Unfortunately this forum isn't run by TiVo nor do I expect anyone from TiVo to read things here. They used to have employees as members here but we haven't seen activity from TiVo here in quite some time.


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## Old Hickory (Jan 13, 2011)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> There will come a day when TiVo no longer suits my needs (eg: if/WHEN cable companies stop CableCard use) and I'd like to have an alternative game plan in mind when that happens.


I feel a lot of the pain being shared here as we near the end of good times. I just want to rid Comcast from my life but my Roamio is (knock on wood) rolling along quite nicely so I want to use it as long as possible. I've looked at alternatives but I'm spoiled with what I currently have now.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

Old Hickory said:


> I feel a lot of the pain being shared here as we near the end of good times. I just want to rid Comcast from my life but my Roamio is (knock on wood) rolling along quite nicely so I want to use it as long as possible. I've looked at alternatives but I'm spoiled with what I currently have now.


I agree&#8230; I have yet to see any streaming service or any other setup at this point that justifies giving up Tivo&#8230;.. especially now that streaming services are pretty much the same price as cable providers! ( although Philo is pretty reasonable for the limited channel lineup they offer) Paired with a Verizon cable card it is pretty much trouble free. I realize other cable companies present a few challenges but overall I think it's not all that bad.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

MrDell said:


> I agree&#8230; I have yet to see any streaming service or any other setup at this point that justifies giving up Tivo&#8230;.. especially now that streaming services are pretty much the same price as cable providers! ( although Philo is pretty reasonable for the limited channel lineup they offer) Paired with a Verizon cable card it is pretty much trouble free. I realize other cable companies present a few challenges but overall I think it's not all that bad.


That and hardware dvrs still have advantages over cloud dvrs. Even if your cable goes down you can still watch a recording.


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## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

Tivo seems to be actively discouraging both old and new adoption of their new devices. When the Tivo Edge crapped out less than two months after I installed it, and I was forced to go back to the Romio, I noticed how much better the Roamio was than the newer Edge unit. Rolling back off Hydra, which seems to me optimized more for streaming than actually recording television, revealed how much smoother and easier to navigate the old software is when watching TV shows. Not to mention the EDGE only has TWO TUNERS which reminds me of the 1999 Phillips unit. "It's evolving...backwards." Smells like Tivo doesn't really want to help cord cutters. 

Fire TV Recast arrived a few days ago. Let's see what it has to offer.

Oh and Tivo is sending a new EDGE unit. So let's see how that goes. I'm not enthused.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

MannyE said:


> Not to mention the EDGE only has TWO TUNERS which reminds me of the 1999 Phillips unit. "It's evolving...backwards."


You are correct, there are only two tuner Edge OTA DVRs for sale. There WAS a four tuner OTA for sale and you can still get a TiVo Edge four tuner refurb for $499 at Weaknees. (Not that I think it's a very good deal. I'd recommend a used Roamio OTA from Ebay.)


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## k2ue (May 9, 2002)

tenthplanet said:


> That and hardware dvrs still have advantages over cloud dvrs. Even if your cable goes down you can still watch a recording.


Channels DVR with an antenna for locals and any of the streaming services or your local cable service's streaming offering provides a full-service hardware DVR that can also be viewed remotely, and provides commercial skipping. It can be made an appliance like TiVo by installing on an Intel-CPU NAS box or even a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB HD. The $80/year cost is easy to take too, and you can switch streaming services in a moment to follow the deals and the channels you want.

I was a long-time TiVo user from the very beginning thru the Bolt and I don't miss it after discovering Channels DVR a few years back.


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

k2ue said:


> Channels DVR with an antenna for locals and any of the streaming services or your local cable service's streaming offering provides a full-service hardware DVR that can also be viewed remotely, and provides commercial skipping.


How are you getting network TV shows (= CBS, ABC, FOX, NBC)? Are you using the Channels TV Everywhere feature to login into your Cable TV provider's online streaming account? Or some other method? 
I'd heard that the audio quality for TV Everywhere was stereo (I can't remember if this was only true for Verizon FIOS specifically or all TV Everywhere logins in general)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

SidKa said:


> How are you getting network TV shows (= CBS, ABC, FOX, NBC)? Are you using the Channels TV Everywhere feature to login into your Cable TV provider's online streaming account? Or some other method?
> I'd heard that the audio quality for TV Everywhere was stereo (I can't remember if this was only true for Verizon FIOS specifically or all TV Everywhere logins in general)


Didn't he say in the quote that he has an antenna that he adds as a source to Channels. Thats what I do and I prioritize the antenna channels over YouTubeTV channels for us.
The main reason I did that is the antenna gives us a lot more channels than YouTube does for locals.


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

zalusky said:


> Didn't he say in the quote that he has an antenna that he adds as a source to Channels. Thats what I do and I prioritize the antenna channels over YouTubeTV channels for us.
> The main reason I did that is the antenna gives us a lot more channels than YouTube does for locals.


You're right, my bad. Thanks.

Are you getting non-stereo audio for your antenna and YouTubeTV channels (via Channels DVR)?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

SidKa said:


> You're right, my bad. Thanks.
> 
> Are you getting non-stereo audio for your antenna and YouTubeTV channels (via Channels DVR)?


Can't say completely I don't really listen to broadcast much. I use the antenna for mostly PBS secondary channels which I am pretty sure do not broadcast above 2.0.
My wife records a lot of cooking shows hence PBS.

For all the good stuff I usually use the apps: Netflix, Prime, Hulu, ...


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

SidKa said:


> You're right, my bad. Thanks.
> 
> Are you getting non-stereo audio for your antenna and YouTubeTV channels (via Channels DVR)?


I can get 5.1 sound from my OTA sources in Channels DVR. I don't subscribe to YTTV but I understand they've been rolling out 5.1 support, and Channels DVR supports that whenever the signal includes it.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I'm trying to hang on to my Bolt OTA because there's really nothing better for watching sports. Unfortunately my signal has gone to hell since the channel repack. A couple of more tweaks and then I may have to give up.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

nrc said:


> I'm trying to hang on to my Bolt OTA because there's really nothing better for watching sports. Unfortunately my signal has gone to hell since the channel repack. A couple of more tweaks and then I may have to give up.


In some areas tower work is being done besides repacking. Some stations are running at lower power than normal.


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## riffjim4069 (Oct 8, 2007)

Yeah, I've been with Tivo since 2007 and, sadly, they've devolved from an A+ organization in my eyes...down to one that is barely passing: software quality is down to a B-, hardware is pulling-down a C-, and customer service is a big, fat, F with a big Incomplete - just terrible. 

My two 3TB Bolt+ died last year and I had to replace them with two 2TB Edge devices. The Bolts were not that old considering they were boxed for 2-years since we moved to an AT&T U-Verse area where a traditional cable provider was not available for quite some time. Obviously, the Bolt hardware built was crap...and I'm not getting a warm & fuzzy about the Edge. Imagine my further dismay when I could not use old 1TB DVR Expanders (from my Premier days) to at least have 3TB of storage since they no longer support eSATA. Ugh! 

Everything from ordering, customer service, technical support and usability of the devices is degraded in some form or fashion. Tivo went from Hero to Zero in my eyes. Moreover, I just tried to login to Tivo Online to move over a batch or recordings and I can't get to the web page and Tivo Online is not even listed on the Tivo website. Incredible. ??????

At least my Roamio Pro is still operating perfectly...very reliable and will probably outlive both Edge devices.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

riffjim4069 said:


> Yeah, I've been with Tivo since 2007 and, sadly, they've devolved from an A+ organization in my eyes...down to one that is barely passing: software quality is down to a B-, hardware is pulling-down a C-, and customer service is a big, fat, F with a big Incomplete - just terrible.
> 
> My two 3TB Bolt+ died last year and I had to replace them with two 2TB Edge devices. The Bolts were not that old considering they were boxed for 2-years since we moved to an AT&T U-Verse area where a traditional cable provider was not available for quite some time. Obviously, the Bolt hardware built was crap...and I'm not getting a warm & fuzzy about the Edge. Imagine my further dismay when I could not use old 1TB DVR Expanders (from my Premier days) to at least have 3TB of storage since they no longer support eSATA. Ugh!
> 
> ...


Agreed, Hero to Zero, lol. And wow you're right, "online dot tivo dot com" is offline! It is listed on their main page, but only in the link list at the very bottom (and that link that ends in "/JustForMeTVE", what the...?) and that leads right back to a blank page. This company is totally falling apart.

Also agreed, as I've posted many times, the Roamios were the last best products TiVo ever produced. My Roamio Pro is on a second hard disk but still going strong overall. Just for safety and our sanity though, we've transitioned almost entirely over the Channels DVR at this point.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Noticed: online.tivo.com


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

I’ve been with TiVo since 1999 and for me it’s working okay (but far from great). I am looking at other sources though and the main one I’m evaluating is YouTube TV. Anyone have any thoughts?

For my TiVos the streaming apps built into TiVo are useless and so I’ve been using a different streaming device. I would like one device that accesses all network shows plus all streaming services and then records all the shows in my list and puts them all in one playlist. TiVo is supposed to do that, but for me it doesn’t work and even if it worked, TiVo only supports a very limited number of streaming services anyway. Caavo also was supposed to do that, but I couldn’t get that to work either. Anyone have any suggestions?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

RMSko said:


> I've been with TiVo since 1999 and for me it's working okay (but far from great). I am looking at other sources though and the main one I'm evaluating is YouTube TV. Anyone have any thoughts?


Um yeah, an entire thread at the top of this forum:

Anyone tried Youtube Tv and can compare it to Tivo?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

RMSko said:


> For my TiVos the streaming apps built into TiVo are useless and so I've been using a different streaming device. I would like one device that accesses all network shows plus all streaming services and then records all the shows in my list and puts them all in one playlist. TiVo is supposed to do that, but for me it doesn't work and even if it worked, TiVo only supports a very limited number of streaming services anyway. Caavo also was supposed to do that, but I couldn't get that to work either. Anyone have any suggestions?


It's probably not going to be the perfect solution you're hoping for but I think the closest you'll come to it is to use a streaming device running the new Google TV system (such as the Chromecast with Google TV) and then use Google's YouTube TV as your streaming cable TV service, plus whatever other subscription and free streaming apps you like, e.g. HBO Max, Apple TV+, Hulu, Tubi, Pluto TV, etc.

Google TV


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm getting close to the end of TiVo for me too. I don't watch as much content from OTA or cable any more. So I got an HDHomeRun FLex 4k which has access to ATSC 3.0 and 1.0 channels. And I got an HDHomeRun Prime, for access to cable channels from FiOS. I'm using them with the Plex DVR, since I already have a lifetime subscription to Plex.

I already had Plex setup for access to my TiVo recordings that were automatically transferred from my TiVos. So there wasn't much involved to just use folders for content recorded from the HDHomeRun devices. The vast majority of the content I watch now is from streaming services. So most of my OTA and cable recordings are news, nostalgic shows, or shows that are not available on services like Hulu, Peacock, AMC+, and Paramount+.


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

aaronwt said:


> And I got an HDHomeRun Prime, for access to cable channels from FiOS. I'm using them with the Plex DVR, since I already have a lifetime subscription to Plex.


I thought the HDHomeRun Prime has not been released yet? Or at least, it shows "In Development" on their website:
HDHomeRun PRIME - SiliconDust

Is there a difference between what the website above references and the HDHomeRun Prime device you have?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

SidKa said:


> I thought the HDHomeRun Prime has not been released yet? Or at least, it shows "In Development" on their website:
> HDHomeRun PRIME - SiliconDust
> 
> Is there a difference between what the website above references and the HDHomeRun Prime device you have?


The HDHomeRun Prime was released many years ago. A few years ago they announced a new six tuner Prime with a newer, smaller design and then eventually discontinued the older design, three tuner Prime. But then partially because of the government decision to scrap cable cards, they axed the six tuner Prime. (Plus the certification process is expensive, and without the government requiring support of cable cards any more, it wasn't worth it for them to go forward with the new, slim, design)

In 2020 they were able to procure the old parts to make several thousand more 3 tuner prime boxes. With the main difference being that there is not an LED on the box for each tuner. I picked up one of the newer ones from Amazon for $150(plus a 3 year extended warranty). But I see there are plenty of older design Prime boxes on ebay for under $100.

There used to be an older six tuner prime but it required two cable cards and was in a large housing. It was essentially two of the three tuner primes in one housing.
I wish they would have gone forward with the newer 6 tuner prime with newer, smaller tuners. And smaller enclosure. It would be the same size as the Flex 4K box I have from them which is very small. The 3 tuner Prime is still small, but is larger than then Flex 4K and has a plastic housing instead of the metal housing the new design had.

Here is the Amazon web page for the 3 tuner prime. Although the picture is of the old one, that had an led for each tuner. The new one looks the same, except it is missing the three LEDs on the right.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HKIB6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The page at Silicon Dust you were at has a correct picture of the Prime. I guess it shows in development because they only made a few thousand more units . But there must be enogh of them, because SIlicon dust is selling new ones on both Amazon and eBay.

Here is the Silcon Dust ebay page for the Prime. Which also has the correct picture. No idea why Siicon Dust hasn't fixed the picture on Amazon.
Silicondust HDHomeRun PRIME CableCARD TV Tuner - Free Shipping | eBay


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

aaronwt said:


> Here is the Silcon Dust ebay page for the Prime. Which also has the correct picture. No idea why Siicon Dust hasn't fixed the picture on Amazon.
> Silicondust HDHomeRun PRIME CableCARD TV Tuner - Free Shipping | eBay


Thank you for this!

Since you have a FIOS cable subscription, may I also ask if you explored a Channels DVR server instead of the Plex / HDHomeRun combo? Presumably the hardware that runs your Plex server is equally capable of running a Channels DVR server. With the Channels TV Everywhere feature, you can use the FIOS login to access the channels OTT (streaming). The Channels DVR TV Everywhere has a small monthly fee, but it would be a wash against renting the Cable Card which you wouldn't need any more.
Channels - TV Everywhere

The single biggest feature of TiVo I care about is the SkipMode (commercial skip) and I have a contracted with FIOS TV service for a couple more years... besides your HDHomeRun+Plex combo, the Channels DVR seems to be the another viable alternative to TiVo, to pick up TV through FIOS _and_ provide auto commercial skip.

Is there anything that advantages HDHomeRun+Plex+FIOS cable via Cable Card over Channels + TV Everywhere FIOS cable?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

SidKa said:


> Thank you for this!
> 
> Since you have a FIOS cable subscription, may I also ask if you explored a Channels DVR server instead of the Plex / HDHomeRun combo? Presumably the hardware that runs your Plex server is equally capable of running a Channels DVR server. With the Channels TV Everywhere feature, you can use the FIOS login to access the channels OTT (streaming). The Channels DVR TV Everywhere has a small monthly fee, but it would be a wash against renting the Cable Card which you wouldn't need any more.
> Channels - TV Everywhere
> ...


Skipmode was also another reason that pushed me to start dropping my TiVos. Skip mode has not been anywhere close to 90% accurate let alone the 99% it should be. At least not with the few shows I was watching from my TiVos. It kept skipping over parts of the show and I would need to manually go back. So I just stopped using skip mode altogether since it was not reliable enough for me any more.

I never considered the Channels option because I already had a lifetime Plex subcription. Plus I switched to the Custom TV option(with no sports to avoid the local sports channels fees) several years ago. And I had switched to watching most of my content directly from streaming services with no commericals. So I don't think the CHannels TV Everywhere would have worked for me. Maybe during all the years when I was on the Ultimate TV tier on FiOS. But Back then I was also watching much more broadcast content.

But I was also using the apps, like HBO or Starz back then, if I could instead of watching from FiOS. Since the video quality has been so bad(but not Comcast bad) for many years now. Nothing like it was ten years ago. Or fifteen years ago when I first got FiOS. The poor video quality was the main thing that pushed me to drop the Ultimate TV tier, in December 2018, and switch to the CUstom TV tier.

In December 2021 I signed up for another two year FiOS contract with CUstom TV. After being off contract for a year. This was to avoid the $9 TV increase coming. So instead my bill went up $2. To around $103 after all taxes, fees, and one cable card. For gigabit internet, Home phone service, and Custom TV. So this pushed back my consideration of dropping TV completely from FiOS. And only using OTA and streaming services for watching content.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I understand looking elsewhere but my Bolt OTA continues to do what I need it to do. I've said in other posts that I don't mind the $7 per month to TIVO if it helps them keep going.
One big problem this month was the bowl games were all on ESPN


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Skipmode was also another reason that pushed me to start dropping my TiVos. Skip mode has not been anywhere close to 90% accurate let alone the 99% it should be. At least not with the few shows I was watching from my TiVos. It kept skipping over parts of the show and I would need to manually go back. So I just stopped using skip mode altogether since it was not reliable enough for me any more.


Yes SM is a joke now, but I've had an HDHR Prime before and it in no way compares to Tivo playback. Tivo is still the best cable DVR you can get.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yes SM is a joke now, but I've had an HDHR Prime before and it in no way compares to Tivo playback. Tivo is still the best cable DVR you can get.


I use an HDHR Prime with Channels DVR and don't miss TiVo when watching recordings, especially now that the commercial skip in Channels DVR is better, but TiVo still wins in live/buffered TV.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Skip mode has worked pretty well for me. The only issue I have is when it's not available. If it's available, I've not had any problems with it.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

southerndoc said:


> Skip mode has worked pretty well for me. The only issue I have is when it's not available. If it's available, I've not had any problems with it.


It's working very well for me. Even better than the old way. But the bad skip points are at least one per program. Usually, but not always, the first.

TiVo says it has been fixed also: Known Issues (tivo.com) on 11/29. Sure.


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

JoeKustra said:


> Even better than the old way


What's the old vs. new way? Is it that the older way used to be more manual/human powered vs a more automated, newer way?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

SidKa said:


> What's the old vs. new way? Is it that the older way used to be more manual/human powered vs a more automated, newer way?


That would be my way of looking at it. Missing SM? Plenty. Bad SM? Very few.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Really? Every show I've seen in the past couple of months has bad SM - either network promos aren't skipped or the show only has the first skip and no others. And this is popular stuff like The Conners, Yellowstone etc.

It's terrible compared to the old human managed way, assuming you even get it on a show (which is also worse than before).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

slowbiscuit said:


> Really? Every show I've seen in the past couple of months has bad SM - either network promos aren't skipped or the show only has the first skip and no others. And this is popular stuff like The Conners, Yellowstone etc.
> It's terrible compared to the old human managed way, assuming you even get it on a show (which is also worse than before).


Last night Yellowstone ep9 had one bad SM position. Then ep10 had no bad SM points.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Last night Yellowstone ep9 had one bad SM position. Then ep10 had no bad SM points.


On which channel? I believe it's on CMT and Paramount.

In my Comcast market I get it on Paramount but friends on FiOS I believe use CMT. I've been using Xfinity 'Smart Resume' and Paramount isn't a channel that it's offered on.

If TiVo is working at it I'd think it's a good sign.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

WVZR1 said:


> On which channel? I believe it's on CMT and Paramount.
> In my Comcast market I get it on Paramount but friends on FiOS I believe use CMT. I've been using Xfinity 'Smart Resume' and Paramount isn't a channel that it's offered on.
> If TiVo is working at it I'd think it's a good sign.


Paramount. I don't watch it, so I can't provide historical data. I do find it noteworthy that the second episode didn't have any errors. I'll have to try that again in a similar situation. I say that because:
Thursday night I saw an error in the description for The Tonight Show, a program I always record & watch the following day using a 1P. So I set it to record on my other Roamio also. On the copy with a bad description there was no SM. On the copy which (at the time) had a generic description there was SM, and it functioned normally. I have no explanation.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

As someone who is thinking about brining TiVo back to its glory days what changes would you like to see from Me/TiVo?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

ufo4sale said:


> As someone who is thinking about brining TiVo back to its glory days what changes would you like to see from Me/TiVo?


Look at Channels DVR. Being able to add and mix providers without affecting season passes. &#8230;&#8230;.. and all the other things they do.
One price for all your clients.

A turnkey Channels DVR would be great.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Skip mode is nice, but I could live without it. The 30 second skip 4 second rewind is good enough.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep considering how bad SM is now, we're doing fine the old way.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm sort of in the same camp with skip mode... it's nice when it's there, but as a long time TiVo owner... using the 3 push FF button and one hit of play, and loving the challenge of landing perfectly in the black between the last commercial and the program... WOW... or as my wife and I often exclaim "A perfect TiVo!!!"


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

MScottC said:


> I'm sort of in the same camp with skip mode... it's nice when it's there, but as a long time TiVo owner... using the 3 push FF button and one hit of play, and loving the challenge of landing perfectly in the black between the last commercial and the program... WOW... or as my wife and I often exclaim "A perfect TiVo!!!"


The ultimate hand-eye coordination exercise.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Our Roamio Pro is still going strong, but we mostly use it as a To-Do list for our streaming services these days. I wish someone would come up with a decent online DVR for 4k Streaming Apps. All of the current offerings are in 1080P (if you're lucky).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

This weekend I tried out the "Skip Mode" with Plex DVR. They have an option to detect commercials and either cut them out or mark them for skip. I decided to just have them marked for skip. And the shows I tried that were inconsistent with TiVo Skip Mode, were spot on with the Plex DVR. So I changed all my recordings, with my Plex DVR, to now mark the commercials for skipping.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

ufo4sale said:


> As someone who is thinking about brining TiVo back to its glory days what changes would you like to see from Me/TiVo?


I would be happy with just software. TiVo running on a Synology NAS like Channels DVR does. AppleTV apps that run TiVo and connect to the TiVo DVR on the Synology NAS. TiVo records from IPTV. Would be a huge plus.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

southerndoc said:


> I would be happy with just software. TiVo running on a Synology NAS like Channels DVR does. AppleTV apps that run TiVo and connect to the TiVo DVR on the Synology NAS. TiVo records from IPTV. Would be a huge plus.


Will this bring TiVo back to the spot light?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

southerndoc said:


> I would be happy with just software. TiVo running on a Synology NAS like Channels DVR does. AppleTV apps that run TiVo and connect to the TiVo DVR on the Synology NAS. TiVo records from IPTV. Would be a huge plus.


Yea well unless you are going with TV everywhere you are going to need hardware with tuners and possibly cable cards.
TiVo's UI does not support the vast different ways of gathering content as a result the growth proposition is not only stagnant but dying.

This is like trying use an old 90s style computer to interface to the modern world. You would be just better off going with a streamers.
It would be cheaper, have more content, and more future proof. Tivo has no future not because the company is failing but because content distribution is rapidly changing.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Yea well unless you are going with TV everywhere you are going to need hardware with tuners and possibly cable cards.
> TiVo's UI does not support the vast different ways of gathering content as a result the growth proposition is not only stagnant but dying.
> 
> This is like trying use an old 90s style computer to interface to the modern world. You would be just better off going with a streamers.
> It would be cheaper, have more content, and more future proof. Tivo has no future not because the company is failing but because content distribution is rapidly changing.


Sadly, I agree with you.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Is there any reason to consider PLEX 'Lifetime' vs Channels 'Annual' subscription if a person has no OTA and requires Xfinity and a CableCARD use w/HDHR 'Prime'. Aside from TVE is there advantages to Channels?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

WVZR1 said:


> Is there any reason to consider PLEX 'Lifetime' vs Channels 'Annual' subscription if a person has no OTA and requires Xfinity and a CableCARD use w/HDHR 'Prime'. Aside from TVE is there advantages to Channels?


Regarding Channels: 

You can mix and max source providers without affecting season passes. IE You can change from Comcast to YTTV back to Comcast or add Philo to Comcast, ....
You get decent software updates from the developers. 
You get better guide data. 
You can use it on as many clients as you wish without paying more.
plus lots more.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> Is there any reason to consider PLEX 'Lifetime' vs Channels 'Annual' subscription if a person has no OTA and requires Xfinity and a CableCARD use w/HDHR 'Prime'. Aside from TVE is there advantages to Channels?


The Channels DVR folks don't want to do a lifetime sub, and from the user perspective that's best because with lifetime a company has less incentive to keep improving and maintaining. I chose Channels DVR over Plex because Channels is focused on DVR features first and media libraries, streaming, and other features second, while Plex is the opposite, and because IMHO Plex tries to do too many things - like music - and does none of them well. Channels hacks into TVE, PlayOn, Streamlinks and more are great fun, but I use it primarily as a CableCARD and OTA TiVo replacement and Channels is wonderful for that. I love the simple comskip editor in Channels DVR for example.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The downsides to Channels are that

Not everything is available on TVE so you might have to resort to native apps in some cases.
You have to install software and maintain a server which is actually pretty easy. I have done pretty much nothing after the initial double click install.
You need a decent internet connection as all data goes into the house vs little data needed for QAM.


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## SidKa (Dec 21, 2017)

Agree with both @zalusky's and @Pokemon_Dad's posts. I have a Plex (lifetime subscription), Channels DVR (monthly subscription for now), and a TiVo (lifetime subscription with cable card). 

Channels with TVE is the closest I can get to, as a TiVo replacement. It is better than Plex (because it has a stronger DVR focus, and Plex doesn't have an equivalent to TVE yet), but still not as good as TiVo (because not all channels are available through TVE.. most recently/infuriatingly, I lost PBS).

But when Channels TVE works (for the shows, channels it can support), it works as well as, if not better than, TiVo. The picture quality is better than TiVo's (maybe because of less compression over streaming internet compared to the FIOS signal that the TiVo gets through the cable card? Not sure). Commercial skipping works great.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

SidKa said:


> Agree with both @zalusky's and @Pokemon_Dad's posts. I have a Plex (lifetime subscription), Channels DVR (monthly subscription for now), and a TiVo (lifetime subscription with cable card).
> 
> Channels with TVE is the closest I can get to, as a TiVo replacement. It is better than Plex (because it has a stronger DVR focus, and Plex doesn't have an equivalent to TVE yet), but still not as good as TiVo (because not all channels are available through TVE.. most recently/infuriatingly, I lost PBS).
> 
> But when Channels TVE works (for the shows, channels it can support), it works as well as, if not better than, TiVo. The picture quality is better than TiVo's (maybe because of less compression over streaming internet compared to the FIOS signal that the TiVo gets through the cable card? Not sure). Commercial skipping works great.


I augmented my channels YTTV source with a HDHomeRun Flex Antenna setup. It gives me PBS and a lot of locals that are not provided over streaming. WAF win!


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

LOL... Sorry... The thread title immediately had Johnny Mathis and Denise Williams ringing in my ears...


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

I believe that since either 'Channels or PLEX' for me would require a hardware buy and who knows how long CableCARD will be with us I'll likely just stay with the TiVo(s) I have and maybe even sell one or the other and some Mini(s). I have an Xfinity XG1V4 also that I use a splitter to do 2 rooms(1 room 2160 / another 1080P) and in the Wash DC market every local that there is inundates 'prime time' with messaging of some sort.

I have Paramount+/Showtime through Apple, Xfinity 'Smart Resume' works very well and I've experimented with the NBC 'prime time' using Peacock (NOT VOD) and NBC does very well. I don't believe a 'commercial free' Peacock would be an advantage either. 

It's 'JUST TV' I believe is important to consider! Were I 30 or so years younger I'm sure I'd likely think differently!


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## dougtv (May 20, 2015)

If a single peanut remote could operate a TiVo Stream 4K and a TiVo DVR device, I would be happy. I don't even dare mess with streaming apps on Roamio Pro or when I tried edge/bolt (yuck) -- but the Stream 4K/HDR device is pretty cool for its value compared to something like an Apple TV 4K/HDR.

*TiVo Stream 4K pros:*
*Single guide to find movies/shows across different streaming providers

*TiVo Guide integrates Free PlutoTV stuff with paid Sling TV (and maybe even OTA I forget?)

*The peanut remote experience stays...for the most part! While the button layout may take some time to get used to, it's pretty cool to use things like Google Voice Assistant with a TiVo peanut remote and also control smart lights/thermostats/etc in your house from the tivo remote. You can even sideload (maybe now PlayStore supported on Stream4K, haven't tested) your doorbell / security cam android apps.

*I like that HDR can be disabled which is good for some TVs that don't look good when non-HDR visuals are sent on an HDR feed. TiVo 4K HDR lets you now disable HDR so not all content is "upconverted" to an ugly HDR mixed picture. Just like on Roku and AppleTV. Use HDR when the original content is actually in HDR. Disney+ has a habit of mixing just almost anything in HDR I've noticed without proper conversions. SDR generally looks a lot better on many TVs unless the content was actually originally designed/produced in HDR or Dolby Vision. 

*TiVo 4K Cons / Wants:*
* Either a way 4kStream to access a DVR tivo for live tv channels or recordings.
_and/or_
* Single peanut remote that can talk to Stream4K and a TiVo DVR.

* If Stream4K can be "linked" to a traditional TiVo DVR, then of course a centralized Live Guide that shows both Streaming stations and Cable/OTA stations that can be accessed from an available TiVo DVR tuner would be fantastic for the best of both worlds.

* The ability to connect external storage (flash drives, hdd, etc) would be nice for offline saved storage. Similar to the original FireTV box used to or some other Android TV devices out there. Having file manager access would be nice and something the TiVo DVR cannot do unless you use pytivo/TE3 to download from your computer/shared drive.


I would never never use or trust the dependency of streaming apps on any Bolt/Edge/Roamio TiVo DVR. But TiVo Stream 4k being android based I think will have support for at least the next 5-7 years which is not bad for a $30 - $40 4K HDR ready device. 

I like that the streaming and DVR is still separate hardware because I never want to replace or get rid of my old Roamio Pro or Premiere XL. They work great as a TiVo....I would never think of "updating" a DVR just so it can support some decision a person at Netflix or Hulu one day makes. I'd rather that be an issue for the cheaper easy-to-make hardware (stream devices/sticks/etc)


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

WVZR1 said:


> I believe that since either 'Channels or PLEX' for me would require a hardware buy and who knows how long CableCARD will be with us I'll likely just stay with the TiVo(s) I have and maybe even sell one or the other and some Mini(s). I have an Xfinity XG1V4 also that I use a splitter to do 2 rooms(1 room 2160 / another 1080P) and in the Wash DC market every local that there is inundates 'prime time' with messaging of some sort.


It is too bad they don't have an integrated solution - was reading tonight and you can easily load Channels on a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB hard drive (!)

Need someone like Weaknees to gouge the non-DIY crowd for Channels. Hopefully with less surly/condescending customer service. So far it looks like the SiliconDust HDHomeRun Flex 4K paired with YouTube TV will more than handily replace DirecTV for my parents. Who have had nothing but a string of issues which DirecTV wants to solve by issuing them new equipment. With a new contract, of course! I'm fed up with trying to get the Tivo Edge and Tivo Stream to behave together; it's beyond nuts that one can integrate with the other so I'm ordering the HDHomeRun Flex and will take advantage of Channels demo. Will just load it i the background on an existing computer for trial purposes - if it works out will figure out the best way to turn it into an appliance for my parents. Might just get them a QNAP NAS - can do the DVR for them and also support remote backups for me too. 

That it appears it will also be able to integrate Apple TV (the streaming service, not the gawd awful box with the horrible remote), Prime and a few other streaming services they have either for free or for other reasons will be icing on the cake. If it wasn't for a lack of local news YouTube TV would be almost perfect as is. Here's hoping for Channels to save us from DirecTV hell!


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