# TiVo crashed with 8.3 -- that was new



## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

I got 8.3 for my S3 last week and had experienced no problems with it until last night when the video on The Sopranos from HBO HD froze about 45 minutes into playback and required a cold reboot. I was watching the recording but was only about 12 minutes behind real time. The crash occurred right at 9:00 pm CDT, just after the recording ended. After I rebooted, I re-cued the recording to a place just short of the place where it froze the first time and when it got to the place where it had frozen and crashed the first time, it froze again and crashed my machine again. After the second reboot, I re-cued the recording to the end of the telecast and reversed it to a place just after the point where it had crashed earlier. This time, I was able to watch the rest of the show without incident.

I am starting this thread because nothing like this ever happened to me with either version 8.1 or 8.2 of the TiVo software, which I used heavily during the previous four months. Has anybody else experienced anything like this with either 8.3 or earlier versions of the software?


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

I don't have 8.3 yet, but it sounds like the show was recorded over a bad spot on the hard drive.


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## dbenrosen (Sep 20, 2003)

I've seen other threads describing a similar problem in earlier versions. I can't seem to locate them now, but they were there.


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## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

It is of no comfort, I am sure, but the Soprano's sucked last night.


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## PopcornGuy (Apr 6, 2007)

I also had my first crash while watching a program last night. I too am on 8.3 and was also watching a recording that was still in progress. Both tuners were recording scheduled recordings not in HD. At 8:54PM we were about 15 minutes into "The Amazing Race" and were FF through a break. During the FF the Tivo crashed and went to the welcome screen. It took until a few seconds after 9:00PM to resume recordings. We skipped ahead and watched through till the end of what was recorded.

There are a few odd similarities:
-first time crash while watching Tivo was on version 8.3
-watching a recording that was still in progress

Did you begin watching your show from the Now Playing list (I did) or were you in "live mode"? Were you fast forwarding/rewinding at the time? Were both tuners recording scheduled programs? If others experience a problem, maybe it is happening under similar circumstances.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

LifeIsABeach said:


> I don't have 8.3 yet, but it sounds like the show was recorded over a bad spot on the hard drive.


I had a failing hard drive in one of my TiVos, transferred a program my wife wanted to see to a good TiVo, when she tried to watch the program the "good" TiVo crashed at one point, we did what the OP did with the same results so I am colluding that it's not the Hard Drive of the 2nd TiVo but if the data of a program is corrupted in some way it can cause a good TiVo to crash. The OP problem may be the Cable Xmission at that time. It would be great if TiVo could fix this flaw but its too hard to duplicate and my 2nd TiVo is two years old anyways. (I replaced the drive in the first TiVo and no more problems with that TiVo)


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## drew00001 (Jan 13, 2007)

I had the same problem after installing 8.1 and re-runing guided setup did the trick. I plan on re-runing again once I get 8.3, which is hopefully soon. 

I have to agree with the above review of Sopranos. First, they need to start killing. Second, I can't believe how much time they dedicated to Little Vito.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

drew00001 said:


> I had the same problem after installing 8.1 and re-runing guided setup did the trick. I plan on re-runing again once I get 8.3, which is hopefully soon.
> 
> I have to agree with the above review of Sopranos. First, they need to start killing. Second, I can't believe how much time they dedicated to Little Vito.


Only 5 more shows to suffer through.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've had this happen with 8.1, on only one of two S3's. I deleted the bad programs, then for good measure, cleared out the suggestions and recently deleted, to try and make it record in a different area of the drive. (I had guessed it was either a bad patch on the drive, or a bad signal -- although I don't normally see any ill effects from a bad signal apart from the picture breaking up.) It worked. About a month later, it started acting up again -- but this time, it locked up in the menus. I repeated my "fix", and it's been good so far.

It's really annoying when it happens, but probably not worth the hassle of getting the unit replaced, as long as my half-assed fix keeps working. (My other S3 is already a replacement unit; the first crashed constantly.)


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

gwsat said:


> I got 8.3 for my S3 last week and had experienced no problems with it until last night when the video on The Sopranos from HBO HD froze about 45 minutes into playback and required a cold reboot.


WOW, I had that EXACT same problem with 8.3 but with last weeks episode of the Sopranos. I was watching it already recorded on monday and about 36 minutes into the episode it would lock up.

I rebooted, cued up that section again, froze AGAIN.

Tried it a third time, and AGAIN it froze.

The fourth time i cued just 30 seconds past the section where it was freezing (Didn't freeze while ff'ing) and I was able to watch the rest of the episode with no issues.

It looks like corrupt data coming from HBO that the S3 can't handle.

I'm on TW (Previously Adelphia) in the Antelope Valley (SoCal)


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

PhilipSaad said:


> WOW, I had that EXACT same problem with 8.3 but with last weeks episode of the Sopranos. I was watching it already recorded on monday and about 36 minutes into the episode it would lock up.
> 
> I rebooted, cued up that section again, froze AGAIN.
> 
> ...


That was eerily similar to what happened to me. It will come as no surprise that I deleted the Sopranos recording immediately after I had managed to see the end of the episode. If anything like this happens again, Ill do as other posters have recommended and rerun guided setup and perhaps delete the TiVo Suggestions from my drive.

Finally, thanks to you all for your responses. You have been a lot of help.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I had that same problem with 8.1, but only during Prison Break.

It always seemed to be about 40-45 minutes in.

Screen would freeze, unit would lock up, and I'd usually have to pull the plug to reboot.

I'd then cue in to where it rebooted, same scene and it would lock up again.

After reboot I'd cue in again, but FF through that part and it would be fine for the rest of the program, and fine for the rest of the week till I watched Prison Break again.

I haven't had a lockup since Prison Break ended.

There was nothing spectacular or peculiar about the point of lockup, sometimes it would happen during the show, sometimes during the commercial break, if I happened to see a commercial I wanted to watch, or if the 30 second skip happened to land at the right spot.

S3 is only hooked to a rooftop antenna, no cable.


phox


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## surfnutbry (Jan 21, 2004)

I have not gotten the 8.3 update yet and my HD Tivo froze midway during last weeks Sopranos twice at the same exact spot. I wish that Tivo would report some error instead of just freezing. I have no idea if it is just bad data from Comcast or a bad spot on the hard drive. Bad data from Comcast would be my best guess.

Bryan


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

There have been at least two prior threads about this type of freeze, *both referencing that it happened during The Sopranos.* I had it happen once to my SA8300HD, also during The Sopranos. (Amazingly, the S3 kept working when the 8300 locked up.)

I find it too coincidental that it keeps happening during the same show, at (approx) the same time. This makes three different Sundays that it has occurred. There is something toxic in HBO's broadcast stream. 



drew00001 said:


> Second, I can't believe how much time they dedicated to Little Vito.


Yeah, last night's show was just a pile of crap.  
_
(Actually, I thought it was good, but couldn't pass up the opportunity.)_


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

phox_mulder said:


> I had that same problem with 8.1, but only during Prison Break.
> 
> It always seemed to be about 40-45 minutes in.
> 
> ...


Its a relief to learn that it didnt happen to you when you were watching something via a CableCARD. Given all the CableCARD glitches that have been reported here, those of us who have them usually seem to look there first whenever an anomaly arises. I am coming around to the idea that this phenomenon is probably caused by bad data, not by a bad drive.


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## MitchW (Jun 5, 2002)

astrohip said:


> There have been at least two prior threads about this type of freeze, *both referencing that it happened during The Sopranos.* I had it happen once to my SA8300HD, also during The Sopranos. (Amazingly, the S3 kept working when the 8300 locked up.)
> 
> I find it too coincidental that it keeps happening during the same show, at (approx) the same time. This makes three different Sundays that it has occurred. There is something toxic in HBO's broadcast stream.
> 
> ...


My SA8300HD was not affected. However, I did notice some pixelation in the upper left corner once in the showing. It left after a few seconds.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

MitchW said:


> My SA8300HD was not affected. However, I did notice some pixelation in the upper left corner once in the showing. It left after a few seconds.


I wasn't clear. Last night neither had a problem. Clear & crisp.

The Sunday that the SA8300HD locked up was 2 or 3 weeks ago.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

gwsat said:


> Its a relief to learn that it didnt happen to you when you were watching something via a CableCARD. Given all the CableCARD glitches that have been reported here, those of us who have them usually seem to look there first whenever an anomaly arises. I am coming around to the idea that this phenomenon is probably caused by bad data, not by a bad drive.


No bad data coming into TiVo from a program (OTA, Cable, MRV, ETC) should hang any TiVo, or put it in a state that requires a hard re-boot. I think this is a flaw that TiVo should address somehow. Bad data should at most stop the video and force you to fast forward or not see the rest of the program.


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## Raphael (Mar 9, 2004)

My S3 rebooted while recording Soprano's last night. I was watching something else at the time. I'm on 8.1 and started having random freezes and reboots Friday. So I thought it was just me.


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## Jboink (Jul 8, 2006)

Ive had the same problems recording the Sopranos in HD...... I posted a thread but nobody seemed to have an answer. A lot of us have Cablevision as our provider. A guy I work with has Direct TV and told me he noticed during the Sopranos in HD that the static got so bad his channel locked up on him. I think the problem is something weird in the signal and the S3 doesnt know what to do with it so it freezes. 

My solution.......Record the Sopranos in standard def. I know it sucks but I got to see the show


I got 8.3 last week and wasnt home to watch the sopranos on my hd cable box so I didnt want to test it. Last night however I recorded Heroes and 24 at the same time. I got home from work around 20 after 9, turned on my tv and heroes was on, I rewinded the 20 minutes and started watching from there. When I finished watching Heroes I started watching 24. I noticed HD static and then something weird happened, Tivo jumped about 20 secs ahead. I pressed rewind and noticed that I didnt get the whole hour of the show. I got 47 minutes of it, every 5 or six minutes there would be HD static and it would jump, sometimes up to 2 minutes. Very anoying.

To make matters worse I tried watching 24 on the website this morning and the final 15 minutes are cut off the end. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I HAVE heard (from bfdtv, perhaps?) that HBO uses some fancy new compression algorithms/hardware to generate very low bitrate HD with negligible quality rammifications. For identical picture quality, HBO/Discovery HD shows are usually 9/12 MBPS respectively, IIRC.

Maybe the Broadcom chip in the S3 doesn't like some MPEG2?


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

Jboink said:


> I got 8.3 last week and wasnt home to watch the sopranos on my hd cable box so I didnt want to test it. Last night however I recorded Heroes and 24 at the same time. I got home from work around 20 after 9, turned on my tv and heroes was on, I rewinded the 20 minutes and started watching from there. When I finished watching Heroes I started watching 24. I noticed HD static and then something weird happened, Tivo jumped about 20 secs ahead. I pressed rewind and noticed that I didnt get the whole hour of the show. I got 47 minutes of it, every 5 or six minutes there would be HD static and it would jump, sometimes up to 2 minutes. Very anoying.


I recorded 24 and Heroes last night and was able to watch both recordings without incident. However I get them both OTA. This makes me wonder whether your cable company may be causing the problem somehow because it appears that the data stream Fox used to pump 24 was all right.


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## kmsulli (Jul 17, 2002)

I've been having the same problem. The unit froze during Entourage, at the same spot 3 times, then a spot further in. The only way to fix it was a cold boot. It then froze during The Tonight Show. I got a replacement about a month ago. And it just happened last night while recording The Tonight Show and Letterman. Do I get a new machine, repeat guided setup, give up?


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Got a hard freeze myself Sunday evening. Subterranean on MTV2 was on the screen, but the other tuner was most likely on HBO HD (Sopranos was the last thing recorded). Didn't notice it til Heroes and 24 were not being recorded.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I've not had this issue. But, if any of you THINK it is the hard drive, for Pete sake QUIT deleting the show with the reboot in it! Save it forever. Then you are keeping that part of the hard disk from being used again. That should tell you if it is a bad sector real fast. Someone who might be about to upgrade their disk ought to send Tivo one of these and we might get the issue reaally fixed too, if it is bad data doing it.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I've gotta believe it's a toxic stream from the cable company.

1) It often happens on HBO shows like Sopranos, to many different people on many different MSOs

1a) At least twice it has occurred in multiple areas on the same Sopranos broadcast

2) It happened to kmsulli on two different machines, which almost certainly eliminates the hard drive possibility

3) Can't recall hearing about an OTA freeze like this

4) It's happened to me twice, once on my S3, the other time on my SA8300HD. Both times was an HBO show (but different times)

While it's not always HBO, it does appear to happen far more often on HBO than any other network.


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## soonermagician (May 28, 2007)

Are there any solutions to this? My S3 freezes while watching a live show on *HBO*. Is this probably just a cable card issue?


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## kucharsk (Feb 2, 2007)

soonermagician said:


> Are there any solutions to this? My S3 freezes while watching a live show on *HBO*. Is this probably just a cable card issue?


Remember there is no such thing as "live" on an S3; everything is recorded to disk then streamed back off, so if there's something that would cause the S3 to freeze during playback, it would do the same when watching it "live."


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

I am resurrecting this old thread to report that I had another freeze last night, which was nearly identical to the one I reported when I started this thread in April about the Sopranos episode that froze my S3.

Last night I was recording John From Cincinnati, also on HBO, and started to watch it about 10 minutes behind the recording. When I was about 15 minutes into the show (8:15 PM CDT), the video froze and my remote control stopped working. The red recording lights stayed on and I later confirmed that both shows that I was recording, I was also recording an episode of Supernatural on The CW, continued to record until I rebooted. 

After I rebooted, I saw that both recordings I had started had continued to record until 28 minutes after the hour, which was when I rebooted. I went back into my John From Cincinnati episode and was able to watch the first 28 minutes just fine, although I was careful not to replay the portion of the recording that had caused my S3 to freeze. The second part of both recordings, which started at 33 minutes after the hour, were just fine, too.

These two occurrences are the only ones of their kind I have had, so I am pretty confident that the issue is HBO and not my hard drive. 

A TiVo technical guy contacted me via PM about the problem I had with The Sopranos in April and said that TiVo was working on it, but I never heard anything further.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

I don't know if this related to what everyone else is observing, but recently, I have been getting some slight pixelation/blocking that is causing my S3 to simply freeze. It will remain locked like that for several minutes. Fast forwarding (or skip or rewind, for that matter) will cause the TiVo to make the audio signal that it registered the command, but the image will remain locked. After about a minute or two, the image will re-draw, and it will remain locked. It will do that for a while until it gets past a certain point of the program, and then it will resume "normal" playback. Pushing the TiVo button will similarly trigger the audio signal, but the TiVo will hang for a long period before it gets to the home screen. Telling it to resume drops the program back into the same spot, where it freezes again. This happens on both live and recorded shows, and on multiple channels. 

I can certainly accept that Brighthouse may be sending a low quality signal, but the TiVo should not be freezing up this way. There are no visable hick-ups on my other TV connected to a PACE digital set top box.

Anyone else experiencing this?


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

The screen freeze and box lockup on HBO, which I have reported on twice before here, happened to me again on Sunday night. This time it happened on a brand new S3 that TiVo shipped to replace the original, which died. The failure of my old box was completely unrelated to the problems I have reported here.

As was the case when I reported on 6/16, the screen freeze came when I was watching an episode of John from Cincinnati, which I recorded but started watching only about 10 or 15 minutes after the broadcast started. Although I am inclined to blame HBOs signal for the problem, the fact remains that the problem has NEVER occurred when I am watching an HBO show on my other HD DVR, the execrable SA 8300HD. Thus, the possibility remains that the problem is attributable to version 8.3 of the software or some other problem with the S3.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

Now I have seen this same problem twice (lockup requiring reboot), when watching HD recording of John From Cinicinnati (off HBO, Sunday nights).
First time happened in the second episode, about 15 minutes in. Rebooted, and skipped past the part where it froze, played remainder of episode fine.
Second time happened in the fourth episode at about 38 minutes in. Rebooted, and tried to skip past the freeze point, but the TiVo froze at the same point. Rebooted again and deleted the show, re-recorded on Monday night and the new recording played fine.

Software is 8.3.1-01-2-648, cloned original internal HD and expanded to Maxtor 'basic' 500GB drive L01F500.

Don't think it's the drive as I have not seen this other than on the two HBO shows.
It did freeze once before, before I had 8.3 software (actually the upgrade was in the drive but not yet rebooted), before I cloned the drive (orignal HDD), but was watching Cinemax HD.


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## Bunny (Nov 27, 2004)

Is there any news on this issue? I too have this, primarily with HBO. Funny thing is that it appears that it does not happen when I record HBO. Only when I watch it live, the freezes occur.

Cablevision in NJ


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

Bunny, I don't think 'live' has anything to do with it. With TiVo, you are *always* watching a recording.


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## Razorbak (Aug 21, 2005)

Add me to the list of TiVo S3 owners that have had the unit freeze during recent Sunday night episodes of John from Cincinnati on HBO HD. The unit also recently froze during a Sunday night episode of Entourage and Flight of the Conchords (also on HBO HD). After re-booting on each instance and fast forwarding to the spot of the freeze, the unit would freeze again at the exact same location. FWIW, I was watching the TiVo Live broadcast, but usually a few minutes behind the most current point on the TiVo recording. My S3 has two Scientific Atlanta cablecards from WideOpenWest, and a recently upgraded HDD.


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## bp888 (Sep 28, 2004)

Same problem with HBO on my S3. Happened three times in the last 3 months. One each on episodes of Sopranos, Entourage and John from Cincinnati. Didn't try playing to the same spot where the picture/TiVo froze coz I didn't want to go through the hassle. But just wanted to post here as another data point.

Has anybody gotten any feedback from TiVo on why this is happening?


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

I called TiVo. The customer service rep told me to unplug it and force a re-boot. I was skeptical, as my S3 had already re-booted itself mutliple times. That being said, since I forced the re-boot, the problem seems to have gone away (knock on wood).


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

PPC1 said:


> I called TiVo. The customer service rep told me to unplug it and force a re-boot. I was skeptical, as my S3 had already re-booted itsef mutliple times. That being said, since I forced the re-boot, the problem seems to have gone away (knock on wood).


How is this a 'solution?' You have to re-boot the box to get rid of the freeze in the first place!


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

PPC1 said:


> I don't know if this related to what everyone else is observing, but recently, I have been getting some slight pixelation/blocking that is causing my S3 to simply freeze. It will remain locked like that for several minutes. Fast forwarding (or skip or rewind, for that matter) will cause the TiVo to make the audio signal that it registered the command, but the image will remain locked. After about a minute or two, the image will re-draw, and it will remain locked. It will do that for a while until it gets past a certain point of the program, and then it will resume "normal" playback. Pushing the TiVo button will similarly trigger the audio signal, but the TiVo will hang for a long period before it gets to the home screen. Telling it to resume drops the program back into the same spot, where it freezes again. This happens on both live and recorded shows, and on multiple channels.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


Yes, only mine is so severe that the TiVo actually reboots itself, and when it comes back up and can't get a good signal/synch, it reboots again. If I pull the cable out of it, the unit works just fine, but the minute I put the cable back in, the box freezes again, even if I'm just navigating menus in the Settings area. I don't understand why the TiVo should ever lockup due to corrupted streams. Talk about a denial of service attack...


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

drcos said:


> How is this a 'solution?' You have to re-boot the box to get rid of the freeze in the first place!


Well, the re-boot was performed while the TiVo was operating normally. I too was skeptical for the very reason you state-- my TiVo had already rebooted a number of times because it locked up. Again, despite my skepticism, the reboot during normal non-locked operation seems to have alleviated the problem (knock in wood)-- at least for now.

I did get a freeze-up after performing the re-boot while watching a program that I had recorded prior to forcing the re-boot. But on everything recorded after the forced re-boot, I have not had the problem. I had been getting the problem at least four or five times in an hour long program before forcing the re-boot. So the number of freeze ups since performing the forced re-boot has definitely dropped way off. Is there a causal relationship between the re-boot and the decline in freeze-ups? I can't definitively say.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

For those experiencing the mentioned symptoms it could be due to poor signals - for more on 8.3/signal issues read this thread. The overall conclusion is that v8.3 upgrade caused S3's to become more sensitive to signal issues and toward the end of the thread there are a number of suggested remedies.

In some of these cases data corruption; possibly bad sectors or a bad read/write head on your hard drive may be the problem.

You should first try a hard reboot - unplugging TiVo for ten or 15 seconds and plugging it back in. That may or may not fix things or it may bring up the GSOD (TiVos version of scan disk). If the GSOD appears let TiVo do its work and it will eventually reboot. If you still experience the same issues you might want to force a GSOD by using Kickstart 57.

Kickstart 57:

Be sure TiVo is connected via dial-up or broadband as it will need to make a connection to determine the firmware version and download a new copy if yours it corrupted.

1. Unplug TiVo and wait 15 seconds.
2. Plug TiVo in, get the TiVo remote and aim it at TiVo.
3. Press and hold the pause button until the orange light comes on.
4. Immediately type in the numbers "5" and "7" on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
5. TiVo will reboot and the GSOD screen will come on saying TiVo has encountered a serious error. It will then run the disk management tool which can take from 10 minutes to 3 hours to complete. During this time it will look for and correct configuration problems as well as isolating bad sectors on the hard drive so they can no longer be used.
6. TiVo will automatically reboot again and hopefully things will return to normal...although you may lose any recordings that were included in the bad sectors.

If that doesnt work you may want to contact TiVo and see what they suggest. You might want to get an exchange unit or look into replacing your hard drive (very easy to do).

BTW, you won't be able to compare watching a non-TiVo set up with your TiVo enabled TV as you're never actually watching "live" TV; you're always watching TiVo's buffer. So if there are problems with the hard drive they will show up.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

Rich,

I'm not having any luck with this. I did what you said, but instead of the results you indicated, I got a black screen with the following message:

"Connecting to server..."
"Error: bad connection"

The error message took about a minute or so to come up. I didn't initially have the Ethernet plugged in when this came up, so it might have been trying to call home, I just don't know. Any clue what this is?

Can you please clarify three things for me:

1. When you first plug a S3 TiVo in ALL lights come on and stay on for about 30 seconds, including the Orange one. You mean to hold the Pause button until all lights go out and the orange one comes back on, right?

2. You don't continue holding the pause button when you press 5-7, right?

3. When you say 5-7, you mean press the following three buttons one after the other: "5", "6", and "7", and not just the following two buttons: "5", and "7". The dash implies you mean 5 "through" 7, but the title Kickstart 57 would seem to indicate you don't use the six.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rtmoore4 said:


> Rich,
> 
> I'm not having any luck with this. I did what you said, but instead of the results you indicated, I got a black screen with the following message:
> 
> ...


Yes TiVo needs to be connected. Sorry I didnt think about it but I should have mentioned that TiVo needs to be connected...either dial-up or broadband...for Kickstart 57 to work. It needs to verify the current firmware version (and download a new copy if it's corrupted).

Answers:

1. Yes

2. Yes, er no...As soon as the orange light comes back on, release the pause button and press the numbers 5 and then 7

3. No...(as above) just press the "5" and "7" buttons

Let us know how it goes.


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

richsadams said:


> Yes TiVo needs to be connected. Sorry I didnt think about it but I should have mentioned that TiVo needs to be connected...either dial-up or broadband...for Kickstart 57 to work. It needs to verify the current firmware version (and download a new copy if it's corrupted).


Ok, well one problem was that I was pressing "5", "6", "7", instead of just "5","7". Once I did it right, I did get the GSOD and the TiVo chugged on it for awhile before rebooting and coming back. It did not fix anything, though. I'm still having the really bad pixelation (completely unwatchable) that often causes the TiVo to have slow response, lockup, and reboot. If I pull the cable off the back OR pop the CableCards out, the box is once again very speedy and I can watch previously recorded material just fine.


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## bp888 (Sep 28, 2004)

richsadams said:


> For those experiencing the mentioned symptoms it could be due to poor signals - for more on 8.3/signal issues read this thread. The overall conclusion is that v8.3 upgrade caused S3's to become more sensitive to signal issues and toward the end of the thread there are a number of suggested remedies.
> 
> In some of these cases data corruption; possibly bad sectors or a bad read/write head on your hard drive may be the problem.
> 
> You should first try a hard reboot - unplugging TiVo for ten or 15 seconds and plugging it back in. That may or may not fix things or it may bring up the GSOD (TiVos version of scan disk). If the GSOD appears let TiVo do its work and it will eventually reboot. If you still experience the same issues you might want to force a GSOD by using Kickstart 57.


I appreciate the above suggestions, but the three times that I've had to do a hard reboot on my S3, they were all while watching HBO programs! Coincidence? Hmm...

FWIW, I've never had a GSOD on my 8-month old S3.


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

bp888 said:


> I appreciate the above suggestions, but the three times that I've had to do a hard reboot on my S3, they were all while watching HBO programs! Coincidence? Hmm...
> 
> FWIW, I've never had a GSOD on my 8-month old S3.


Was the HBO channel in HD? Almost all of my reboots have occurred on HD signals.


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## bp888 (Sep 28, 2004)

rtmoore4 said:


> Was the HBO channel in HD? Almost all of my reboots have occurred on HD signals.


Yes.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

Is it of any interest that it would seem the lockup only occurs when the questionable material is being played, not recorded? The last time this happened, it was the recording from the night before, when I know I was watching something else, so the show was being recorded, not playing back.
We'll may know more tonight or tomorrow, as it has only happened so far on John from Cincinnati, from the Sunday night showing...(HBO-HD)

And, what, exactly, does leaving the S3 unplugged for 10-15 seconds do over just 5-10 seconds?? Is this the old 'PC' thing about letting the power supply capacitors discharge, or is this the cable company urban legend to unplug your cable box for thirty minutes  (Yes I know, your cable modem should be unplugged for 30 seconds to re-initialise as it lets the capacitor on the vram discharge and clears the dynamic settings) . . .


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rtmoore4 said:


> Ok, well one problem was that I was pressing "5", "6", "7", instead of just "5","7". Once I did it right, I did get the GSOD and the TiVo chugged on it for awhile before rebooting and coming back. It did not fix anything, though. I'm still having the really bad pixelation (completely unwatchable) that often causes the TiVo to have slow response, lockup, and reboot. If I pull the cable off the back OR pop the CableCards out, the box is once again very speedy and I can watch previously recorded material just fine.


 Sorry that didn't help, but glad it did work...it eliminates a few things. It does then sound like a signal/cable card issue. Might be time to get your cableco to roll a truck and test everything. If they assure you that the cablecards are both good and that the signal is the best it can be I'd then contact TiVo and have them work through it with you.

Others have said that a three-way conference call; you, cableco and TiVo, was the last step before TiVo would offer to replace their box. Some have gotten a full exchange but paid for shipping, others have paid a $50 exchange fee...but they should be able to do something for you.

Sorry this didn't work out, but at least you know that your HDD is probably okay.

Keep us up to date! :up:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

bp888 said:


> I appreciate the above suggestions, but the three times that I've had to do a hard reboot on my S3, they were all while watching HBO programs! Coincidence? Hmm...
> 
> FWIW, I've never had a GSOD on my 8-month old S3.


We've never seen a GSOD either, but it's not uncommon. If it happens repeatedly there's a problem that TiVo's software can't resolve.

The HD HBO issue is a worry. You said you were watching HBO HDas *drcos * asked, was that live or shows you had already recorded? (Actually you never see anything live, youre always watching TiVos buffer.)

Most of the issues with v8.3 upgrade others have reported tend to affect a number of channels, not just one. HD signals are certainly more complicated to process and if it only happens on that particular HD channel I'd go back to the cableco and have them investigate. Sometimes they can help over the phone by having you tune to the particular set of channels that are in the same frequency range as HBO HD (not necessarily all HD channels either) to determine if theres a problem on their end. If they cant do anything from there they may have to send someone out.

It could be a TiVo problem, but it's unlikely since you would probably see the same issues on other channels.

Let us know how it goes.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

drcos said:


> And, what, exactly, does leaving the S3 unplugged for 10-15 seconds do over just 5-10 seconds?? Is this the old 'PC' thing about letting the power supply capacitors discharge, or is this the cable company urban legend to unplug your cable box for thirty minutes  (Yes I know, your cable modem should be unplugged for 30 seconds to re-initialise as it lets the capacitor on the vram discharge and clears the dynamic settings) . . .


 Clearing cache and various settings is one part...letting the HDD spin down is another. Most of the HDD manufacturers recommend letting them spin to a stop before powering up again to allow the read/write heads to park. This also gives broadband connections (if you're using them) the opportunity to break and create a fresh "handshake" as well as allowing TiVo to create a new "handshake" with the equipment it's attached to such as your audio out, HDMI, etc. It's probably not critical, but it can't hurt.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

richsadams said:


> The HD HBO issue is a worry. You said you were watching HBO HDas *drcos * asked, was that live or shows you had already recorded?


Haven't seen it 'live' yet, but as I mentioned, I think it has to do with playback, not recording, as I was watching another program and had no problems. The 'glitch' in the last recording (from episode #3) was at around 40 minutes in, so would have been 9:40 or so, and I was watching until after 10 pm with no problems. This is why I think the problem arises in the playback stream.
The next time I get this glitch (hopefully never), I will note exactly when the problem occurs. I'll try the kick start 57 before I go to sleep tonight, I have a 500GB in there (same drive has been in there for both occurences of the problem) and it could take a while...


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## bp888 (Sep 28, 2004)

richsadams said:


> The HD HBO issue is a worry. You said you were watching HBO HDas *drcos * asked, was that live or shows you had already recorded? (Actually you never see anything live, youre always watching TiVos buffer.)


In all 3 cases I was watching *recorded* HBO HD programs.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

richsadams said:


> Clearing cache and various settings is one part...letting the HDD spin down is another... It's probably not critical, but it can't hurt.


I did not know that. Thanks
This weeks update - Watched the HD recording of John from Cincinnati (from Sunday) last night, and all was well (although the show itself has gotten a little jiggy). I would like to think that the reboot helped, but ....


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

drcos said:


> I did not know that. Thanks
> This weeks update - Watched the HD recording of John from Cincinnati (from Sunday) last night, and all was well (although the show itself has gotten a little jiggy). I would like to think that the reboot helped, but ....


 "John" is one of the strangest shows I've seen since "Twin Peaks"! Just when you think you've figured something out it gets a little more bizarre. I like it...I think. Maybe I should consult Zippy. 

Sorry, OT. Glad it looked better this time around. Let us know how things go! :up:


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

drcos said:


> Haven't seen it 'live' yet, but as I mentioned, I think it has to do with playback, not recording, as I was watching another program and had no problems. The 'glitch' in the last recording (from episode #3) was at around 40 minutes in, so would have been 9:40 or so, and I was watching until after 10 pm with no problems. This is why I think the problem arises in the playback stream.
> The next time I get this glitch (hopefully never), I will note exactly when the problem occurs. I'll try the kick start 57 before I go to sleep tonight, I have a 500GB in there (same drive has been in there for both occurences of the problem) and it could take a while...


Here's the interesting part about the playback versus recording theory. Any programs that were recorded on my malfunctioning S3 prior to 8.3 have no problems being played back. It's only things that were recorded post-8.3 (or live TV of course). Isn't that curious? I'm not sure what it means, but it seems to be fairly telling. Perhaps someone more skilled in the dark arts of the S3 design can figure that one out.


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

richsadams said:


> "John" is one of the strangest shows I've seen since "Twin Peaks"! Just when you think you've figured something out it gets a little more bizarre. I like it...I think. Maybe I should consult Zippy.
> 
> Sorry, OT. Glad it looked better this time around. Let us know how things go! :up:


Apologies in advance for continuing the OT discussion but I thought some might be interested in seeing the extensive discussion of John from Cincinnati over at AVS Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=859716

To say the least, JfC is weird and controversial. I have rather liked it, although it is not in a class with David Milchs masterpiece, Deadwood.

To get back on topic for a second, all of my spontaneous reboots occurred while I was viewing an HD recording on HBO, which I was watching while the rest of the show was being recorded. It has happened to me three or four time, once on the Sopranos, once on JfC, and another one or two times on other shows.


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

Just to close the loop on my issues, after my third RMA unit, I once again have a functioning S3 unit. I waited until it finally picked up the new 8.3 code and was still functional before posting this, because obviously, that was the big concern over why my last one died. So, it's clear to me now that 8.3 CAN work fine, but apparently has the potential to cause problems. I sure wish I knew what the deciding factor there is.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rtmoore4 said:


> Just to close the loop on my issues, after my third RMA unit, I once again have a functioning S3 unit. I waited until it finally picked up the new 8.3 code and was still functional before posting this, because obviously, that was the big concern over why my last one died. So, it's clear to me now that 8.3 CAN work fine, but apparently has the potential to cause problems. I sure wish I knew what the deciding factor there is.


Thanks for the update. Seems that your (or TiVo's) run of "bad luck" is finally over. :up:


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

Thought the problem was gone, but it came back Sunday, while watching 'live' and not-HBO. It was WTTA-HD (a 'clear' HD channel) during Star Trek, around 5:40 PM in the data stream (about 5:55 actual time)....screen froze, system locked up. After a reboot, things were OK.
Ran kickstart 57 this morning - took less than 10 minutes (with a 500GB drive?), will wait to see if it happens again.
Do we think this is a TiVo glitch due to some toxicity in the program stream, or intermittent serious HDD problems? My next step is to pull and image the HDD, do a low-level format, then replace the image (this will eliminate needing to re-init the cards).


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

Update - I am leaning towards a HDD problem, as it happened again today, watching MAXHD, delayed about ten minutes. The weird thing this time is it 'hiccupped' before it locked up, the picture and sound froze for a split-second, then came back on for a couple seconds, then froze up again (necessitating another re-boot)...
I am thinking about a bigger drive, anyways, which may be the next step.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

rtmoore4 said:


> Yes, only mine is so severe that the TiVo actually reboots itself, and when it comes back up and can't get a good signal/synch, it reboots again. If I pull the cable out of it, the unit works just fine, but the minute I put the cable back in, the box freezes again, even if I'm just navigating menus in the Settings area. I don't understand why the TiVo should ever lockup due to corrupted streams. Talk about a denial of service attack...


I just started seeing the same problem. I don't think its the video stream- it happens no matter what channel I tune to. The only fix I can find is to pull the cable and watch OTA. Not so good when all my SPs this weekend are HBO/SHO


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## furry_4skin (May 20, 2007)

Is this a common problem or is it just a handful of people, obviously everyone in this forum is having the same problem, but are there people running 8.3 that aren't getting pixellation and random restarts? Is TiVo working on a fix for this; do they even acknowledge that something is wrong?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

furry_4skin said:


> Is this a common problem or is it just a handful of people, obviously everyone in this forum is having the same problem, but are there people running 8.3 that aren't getting pixellation and random restarts? Is TiVo working on a fix for this; do they even acknowledge that something is wrong?


All TiVo S3's are using the same software version and logic says that a small percentage of the total are having problems...a percentage of people with problems have found their way here. There are a number of pages now but it would be best to read what's already been posted to find out more.

The problem with pixelization (or "macroblocking") and audio drops has been acknowledged by TiVo according to this post  and in a couple of other threads. TiVo is working on a "fix" with a new software update; release TBD.

Random restarts are not normal however. That can indicate data corruption or connection problems. If you're experiencing both issues it may be the sign of a HDD going bad. Perform a search on those subjects for more info.


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