# TiVo and HDTV for my New Plasma?



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

My new Panasonic TH-50PX50U Plasma TV should be arriving soon but I just got off the phone with DirceTv and am a little disappointed. First off, we did not buy the TV we won it, so I would have done my research before hand had I purchased it. Anyway, I currently have DirecTv with TIVO but if I want to be able to view programs in HD on my new TV I will need to replace the Direct-TiVo box with DirecTv's own HD-DVR. The guy on the phone told me DirecTv is no longer associated with TiVo. I do not want to lose some of the great features that TiVo offers, so how does DirecTv's new DVR unit compare to the Direct-TiVo. Is there things it can't do that the TiVo unit could?

The other disappointment was when the guy at DirecTv told me that the networks in my area don't broadcast shows in HD. What the heck?!?!? I live in Portland, Oregon...I think Portland is the 24th biggest city in the country and they're not broadcasting the networks in HD? Is this an issue with DirecTv or the local networks?

I want HD but I don't know if its worth losing my TiVo unit, especially if it doesn't include the networks. They want to charge me $10 more per month so I can occassionally see a show on HBO or ESPN in HD?


----------



## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

The only HD Tivo DirecTV offers is still the Tivo. Their own HD DVR isn't due until later this year, so you can still get a HD DVR with the Tivo software.

I'm sure your local broadcasters are transmitting in HD. What the CSR was probably referring to is that DirecTV isn't rebroadcasting your locals in HD over the satellite. But the HD Tivo can receive OTA HD transmissions, so if you are willing to put up an antenna, you can record your local HD channels as well. However, when D* does start rebroadcasting your locals in HD, they will be in a format that the HD Tivo can't understand.



Dnamertz said:


> My new Panasonic TH-50PX50U Plasma TV should be arriving soon but I just got off the phone with DirceTv and am a little disappointed. First off, we did not buy the TV we won it, so I would have done my research before hand had I purchased it. Anyway, I currently have DirecTv with TIVO but if I want to be able to view programs in HD on my new TV I will need to replace the Direct-TiVo box with DirecTv's own HD-DVR. The guy on the phone told me DirecTv is no longer associated with TiVo. I do not want to lose some of the great features that TiVo offers, so how does DirecTv's new DVR unit compare to the Direct-TiVo. Is there things it can't do that the TiVo unit could?
> 
> The other disappointment was when the guy at DirecTv told me that the networks in my area don't broadcast shows in HD. What the heck?!?!? I live in Portland, Oregon...I think Portland is the 24th biggest city in the country and they're not broadcasting the networks in HD? Is this an issue with DirecTv or the local networks?
> 
> I want HD but I don't know if its worth losing my TiVo unit, especially if it doesn't include the networks. They want to charge me $10 more per month so I can occassionally see a show on HBO or ESPN in HD?


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

beanpoppa said:


> The only HD Tivo DirecTV offers is still the Tivo. Their own HD DVR isn't due until later this year, so you can still get a HD DVR with the Tivo software.


Not to doubt you, but if why did the guy at DirecTV tell me that I would not be able to get a DirecTV w/TiVo. If he is telling me it doesn't exist, then how do I know what I will actually get if I order an HD box?



> I'm sure your local broadcasters are transmitting in HD. What the CSR was probably referring to is that DirecTV isn't rebroadcasting your locals in HD over the satellite. But the HD Tivo can receive OTA HD transmissions, so if you are willing to put up an antenna, you can record your local HD channels as well. However, when D* does start rebroadcasting your locals in HD, they will be in a format that the HD Tivo can't understand.


Is this antenna something DirecTV would put up or would I have to have it done seperately? Also, is there any way to find out when DirecTV will start rebroadcasting my locals in HD?


----------



## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

Dnamertz said:


> Not to doubt you, but if why did the guy at DirecTV tell me that I would not be able to get a DirecTV w/TiVo.


Because many (not all, or even most) of the D* CSRs are poorly trained/incompetent/stupid. If you want to make sure that you get a TiVo unit, then go to your local CE store and buy one, and then use the currently applicable rebate.



Dnamertz said:


> Is this antenna something DirecTV would put up or would I have to have it done seperately? Also, is there any way to find out when DirecTV will start rebroadcasting my locals in HD?


I think that most D* contract installers will put up an OTA antenna for you and hook it up to your D* HD receiver, but this is considered a custom install and you will pay for it.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

beartrap said:


> Because many (not all, or even most) of the D* CSRs are poorly trained/incompetent/stupid. If you want to make sure that you get a TiVo unit, then go to your local CE store and buy one, and then use the currently applicable rebate.
> 
> If I do that will I get to continue to get TiVo service through DirecTV even though it will be for a new box, since I've been paying for their TiVo service since before DirecTV broke-up with TiVo?


----------



## Tonedeaf (Sep 24, 2004)

Dnamertz said:


> If I do that will I get to continue to get TiVo service through DirecTV even though it will be for a new box, since I've been paying for their TiVo service since before DirecTV broke-up with TiVo?


Yes. Your service will remain exactly the same except with an HD-Tivo box.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Tonedeaf said:


> Yes. Your service will remain exactly the same except with an HD-Tivo box.


So, if I'm thinking of going to Circuit City, or some other store, and buying a DirecTV HD-TiVo box and moving my current DirecTiVo box into the bedroom. But does DirecTV still only charge $5.99 per month for TiVo service even if you have multiple TiVo boxes?

However, I'm not sure which box I'm shopping for. Is it the HR10-250? Circuit City has this but its $399 after rebates. Is there a lower priced unit or a better deal on this unit somewhere else?


----------



## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

5.99 covers all tvio's/ dvr's in your home. You can have 5 if you want its still the same price.


----------



## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

Dnamertz said:


> However, I'm not sure which box I'm shopping for. Is it the HR10-250? Circuit City has this but its $399 after rebates. Is there a lower priced unit or a better deal on this unit somewhere else?


That is the price, but you could wait for the leasing/renting plan to take effect in March, before jumping on the HD bandwagon.

And if you haven't noticed by now, HD is a premium service that costs a fair sum of money, and no matter what equipment you buy it doesn't come cheap.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

tbeckner said:


> That is the price, but you could wait for the leasing/renting plan to take effect in March, before jumping on the HD bandwagon.


What is the " leasing/renting plan"?

Also, do stand-alone TiVo units have dual tuners where I can record two shows at once?


----------



## Tonedeaf (Sep 24, 2004)

The leasing plan is slated to roll out on March 1st. There is no hard facts yet, it is all rumors of how exactly it will work. I am not sure about standalone products having 2 tuners.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Tonedeaf said:


> The leasing plan is slated to roll out on March 1st. There is no hard facts yet, it is all rumors of how exactly it will work. I am not sure about standalone products having 2 tuners.


Looks like I'll wait a while before I activate any HD service for my new TV. Today just happens to be my one year anniversary since signing up with DirecTV, so my one year commitment is over. I just read that Comcast might start offering TiVo service on their DVR's this year. So, I'm definitely not going to go out and spend $400 on an HD-DVR (w/TiVo), + installation, + a two year commitment to DirecTV, + an antenna to get local channels in HD.


----------



## JJA (Feb 27, 2000)

Dnamertz said:


> Looks like I'll wait a while before I activate any HD service for my new TV. Today just happens to be my one year anniversary since signing up with DirecTV, so my one year commitment is over. I just read that Comcast might start offering TiVo service on their DVR's this year. So, I'm definitely not going to go out and spend $400 on an HD-DVR (w/TiVo), + installation, + a two year commitment to DirecTV, + an antenna to get local channels in HD.


I've got the same TV. After being with D* for 10 years I got tired of looking at the $4k without HD so I figured I'd temporarily switch to Comcast. After 6 months, if Comcast comes out with a Tivo HD PVR, I don't think D* can get me back.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

JJA said:


> I've got the same TV. After being with D* for 10 years I got tired of looking at the $4k without HD so I figured I'd temporarily switch to Comcast. After 6 months, if Comcast comes out with a Tivo HD PVR, I don't think D* can get me back.


Are you using Comcast's DVR? If so, can you tell me how their DVR compares to the DirecTiVO? Season Passes, Wishlists, Dual Tuners, etc???


----------



## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

I hate to say this, but, even living in the NYC market where Directv does have HD locals, if I were to purchase an HDTV (which I'm not about to), I would have to do the unthinkable and replace Directv with digital cable. Directv just doesn't make sense for HDTV because of the extra cost and higher level of compression.


----------



## SmackDaddy (Jul 27, 2001)

Dnamertz said:


> Are you using Comcast's DVR? If so, can you tell me how their DVR compares to the DirecTiVO? Season Passes, Wishlists, Dual Tuners, etc???


There's a Comcast thread on the HDTivo forum you should go check out.


----------



## finsterlee (Jul 27, 2004)

FYI: Consumer Reports says the Panasonic Plasma TVs are by far their favorite for picture quality. Lucky you to have won one!


----------



## Aquatic (Nov 26, 2002)

okay.. redundant post..but..

Directv.com has the HR10-250 HD Direct DVR with Tivo for sale. That's the Tivo model you want if you choose to go that way. There's currently a $200 rebate on it.

Your current DVR will display quite nicely (though not HD of course) on your Panny--the built in scaler will handle changing the picture to fit the big screen.

You could also get a plain old HD receiver (model H20) and use that to watch stuff live and settle for SD on the tivo. IIRC, the H20 is free after $200 rebate, so it'll cost you the programming ( $9.99/mo After 3/1 )

Your LOCAL channels are likely being broadcast in HD. Check out www.antennaweb.org and see where/how far you are from the towers. You'll need to put up some sort of antenna (think 1960s) to pull in those stations until DTV comes through with your "big 4" locals ( CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX)

My time is split between HD and SD--and the HP PL5000N is a Panny 50X500U in disguise..nearly the same box as yours--and as Long as I pay attention to which box is doing the scaling, I'm good. For instance... on the HR10-250, I watch HD stuff at 720p or 1080i depening on the channel. For HGTV, a non-HD channel, I set the receiver to output 480i or 480p and let the TV scale the picture up to fill the screen--no letter box, etc.


----------



## JJA (Feb 27, 2000)

Aquatic said:


> okay.. redundant post..but..
> 
> Directv.com has the HR10-250 HD Direct DVR with Tivo for sale. That's the Tivo model you want if you choose to go that way. There's currently a $200 rebate on it.
> 
> ...


Why bother? Without all the above jerryrigging, just call Comcast and have everything done in one move. All that's missing is TIVO and that's coming. "as long as I pay attention to which box.................." Again, WHY?

I think we in the forum have forgotten that most consumers just want to plug in one box and get full use of their new HD TV. I also think this is what D* has forgotten. Try explaining the above methods to a person you think should have D* with HD, that doesn't even know what coax or RCA cables are, and see how far you get.

Can you imagine any other applicance that requires this kind of effort.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Aquatic said:


> okay.. redundant post..but..
> 
> You could also get a plain old HD receiver (model H20) and use that to watch stuff live and settle for SD on the tivo. IIRC, the H20 is free after $200 rebate, so it'll cost you the programming ( $9.99/mo After 3/1 )


So I can have my current TiVo receiver and a new HD receiver (H20) hooked up to the same TV (without any crazy jerryrigging, which is beyond me)? When the CSR at DirecTV told me I'd need a new HD receiver, he said it would have to replace my current box...is that true? Even if its true, I'm not sure I want to do that if the TiVo is in SD since most of what I watch is recorded on TiVo.

Also, if I order this new HD receiver (H20), would I have to sign a 2 year commitment? The rebate on the HR10-250 looks like it requires a 2 year commitment, and I'm not sure if I want to pay $399 plus an antenna plus installation with a 2 year commitment.

I've also heard that the HD picture quality on DirecTV is not as good as on Comcast, is that true?
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

JJA said:


> I think we in the forum have forgotten that most consumers just want to plug in one box and get full use of their new HD TV. I also think this is what D* has forgotten. Try explaining the above methods to a person you think should have D* with HD, that doesn't even know what coax or RCA cables are, and see how far you get.


Thats about where I am. I know a little about this type of stuff but I just want to be able to turn on the TV and watch what I want without having to worry about what hooked up to what and what switch needs to be on. Even more so for my wife.

The only thing delaying me from moving to Comcast right now is they don't yet have TiVo, and I need to get caught up on the 40 or 50 hours worth of shows thats currently on my TiVo before I have to send that box back to DirecTV...who knows when I'll be caught up.


----------



## Aquatic (Nov 26, 2002)

JJA said:


> Why bother? Without all the above jerryrigging, just call Comcast and have everything done in one move. All that's missing is TIVO and that's coming. "as long as I pay attention to which box.................." Again, WHY?
> 
> I think we in the forum have forgotten that most consumers just want to plug in one box and get full use of their new HD TV. I also think this is what D* has forgotten. Try explaining the above methods to a person you think should have D* with HD, that doesn't even know what coax or RCA cables are, and see how far you get.
> 
> Can you imagine any other applicance that requires this kind of effort.


Why? For the BEST PICTURE QUALITY! Otherwise? no, I don't have to fiddle one iota with the damn thing, but the HR10-250 scaler stinks, or rather the tv's built in one is a ton better. THey make it real easy to change as well--push the little up arrow until your resolution is set the way you want it. Who really cares about the numbers....I just want the picture quality to be the best it can be.. and I do notice a difference between the HR10 and Plasma.

FWIW, I'd agree to a point that many folks want "easy" when it comes to TV. That's really sad too, given the volume of complaints I read here and elsewhere about the state of CATV signals being put out. Plug in the wire and be done with it would be the ultimate, but alas, technology Ain't quite there yet.

Hmm. I think we need to go back to B&W only.. I mean there it's only 2 adjustments to the Tube, brightness and contrast. Adding Color and tint into the mix is just beyond most people anyway. No, wait, let's just have the manufacturers determine the mass average need for brightness, contrast, etc and NOT even provide any controls. cool... makes the remotes simpler too.

People will learn if they want to--I'd wager most of us here have educated ourselves quite a bit on HD and other aspects of display technology. I'm educating a friend of mine now--slowly--into what all the terminology means. He was stuck on "digital" and how it applied to HD/SD and regular TV. Took a bit but he's now aware that while HD=digital, Digital != HD. One small step for man.... 

I really hate it when I wake up at 4am and can't sleep...


----------



## Aquatic (Nov 26, 2002)

Dnamertz said:


> So I can have my current TiVo receiver and a new HD receiver (H20) hooked up to the same TV (without any crazy jerryrigging, which is beyond me)? When the CSR at DirecTV told me I'd need a new HD receiver, he said it would have to replace my current box...is that true? Even if its true, I'm not sure I want to do that if the TiVo is in SD since most of what I watch is recorded on TiVo.
> 
> Also, if I order this new HD receiver (H20), would I have to sign a 2 year commitment? The rebate on the HR10-250 looks like it requires a 2 year commitment, and I'm not sure if I want to pay $399 plus an antenna plus installation with a 2 year commitment.
> 
> I've also heard that the HD picture quality on DirecTV is not as good as on Comcast, is that true?


Got a DVD player hooked up to your TV now? Know how to plug in VCR to a TV? If you answer YES to either, then no crazy jerry rigging involved.

I think I would do it this way:

HD Receiver (component out) -----> Component 1 in on the Panny
SD Tivo (A/V out) ------> AV1 in on the panny

Hook your DVD up similarly as well and you're in. Just change the "source" to change what you're watching.. pretty much how I have mine set up. One hint, check your intended layout and get the shortest cables that fit, else you end up with a nightmare of cords...cable management 101 should be a required course in the school of life 

The CSR was goofy. You don't NEED anything HD to watch your Panny. However, you DO need an HD receiver to display anything broadcast (OTA or DTV) on it. It's kinda like buying a Ferrari and never taking it up past 55mph. The capability is there, but it's not being used. Your Panny will "scale" the picture for you to fill up the whole 50" of the screen--no black/grey/white bars anywhere, top bottom or sides.

Bottom line? Dont' care about HD at this point? get the Panny installed, hook up your current PVR (I'd probably use the Audio L/R and S-video connector for the best possible pic, but the regular old Red/White/Yellow cables will work well too), sit back with the Panny manual and remote control and knock yourself out. Doesn't get much easier than that.

I believe the H20 also carries a 2 year committment, but www.directv.com or the CSRs would have a better feel for that. Since it's a healthy rebate, I suspect that there is a committment.

DTV's picture quality HAS been called into question. From the reading on the boards here and elsewhere (avsforum.com, etc ) there are some who swear by comcast's signal and some who curse it... as well as curse other CATV providers. It's a perception thing I guess...and can vary depending on your location. HD signal wise, I can only compare DTV and OTA signals--and the OTA usually is noticably better typically. NFL Sunday ticket tho..different story..very good PQ.

I can only say that overall, I'm pleased with the HR10-250, HP Plasma and OTA I have set up. It works, didn't take a master's degree to setup, and the things I watch are of acceptable to excellent PQ. YMMV.

::Yawn:: back to the pillow::


----------



## kubedawg (Aug 26, 2005)

DirecTV will support tivo boxes as long as people still have em. people still have the non multisat receivers and all differently manufactured receivers(sony/philips/rca/hns etc..) as well. 

So, if you were to buy an hd/dvr before 3/1/06, you would be spending only $399 after the $200 mir, and $49 for the antenna. But, you'd have to install it yourself, unless you'd like to pay the $99 fee. 

The antenna is merely for locals in hd not provided by directv. So, most current hd local areas contain the 4 major networks(fox,nbc,abc,cbs) some others might only contain 3. I heard directv will have over 57% of the USA households with hd locals available by the end of 2006, so there is a very big chance portland will be getting its hd locals very soon. 

Also, if you would like to wait for the 3/1 when dtv starts the leasing option, you will no longer be able to buy the hd/tivo for $399, as it will shoot up to $749 i believe. To lease it, im still not sure what it will cost, but I do know the price of the hd package will drop to $9.99 as opposed to the current $10.99 monthly, and the $4.99 mirroring fee for each addtl rcvr will be gone for the leased equipement, instead they will slap on a $4.99 lease fee, which in lamens terms means you pay the same, besides the hd package. 

DTV just released TNT in HD package @ no addtl cost on channel 75 so that might spark your interest more, but still, all digital tv providers have very little selection on hd, because it s still too expensive, but as more and more people make the switch, the more hd programming will become available. 

Just dont wait till the new hd/dvr comes out, as the current one will be much better. 

Comcast i think is getting tivo, but they are new to the ball game, as opposed to directv which has had tivo service for many years now. So its up to you.

cable is providing hd quality programs, but still has crappy analog signals on some of their shows, and have until 2009 to update everything to digital quality. 

Directv is better for the quality, and the service, but that satelite dish is definately something to consider.


----------



## SteelersTiVo (Aug 18, 2005)

After reading this post I might consider the H20 as I too just got a Plasma HDTV recently (for the Super Bowl).

1st ?: Since I currently have a Philips D*TiVo & would like to continue to use it, I would know how to connect the H20 & the Philips to the TV but how would I resolve what the satellite coaxs get plugged into? Would I need them to run an additional set of lines, one for the Philips & one for the H20? I currently have 2 lines into each of my D*TiVos but the one is on a SD TV, so no worries there.



kubedawg said:


> Also, if you would like to wait for the 3/1 when dtv starts the leasing option, you will no longer be able to buy the hd/tivo for $399, as it will shoot up to $749 i believe. To lease it, im still not sure what it will cost, but I do know the price of the hd package will drop to $9.99 as opposed to the current $10.99 monthly, and the $4.99 mirroring fee for each addtl rcvr will be gone for the leased equipement, instead they will slap on a $4.99 lease fee, which in lamens terms means you pay the same, besides the hd package.


2nd ?: This is the 1st time I have read that it would be better to buy an HR10-250 now. I had been planning on waiting as I have read that the price would be coming down on the new units compared to the existing ones. Is this really true?


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

kubedawg said:


> Also, if you would like to wait for the 3/1 when dtv starts the leasing option, you will no longer be able to buy the hd/tivo for $399, as it will shoot up to $749 i believe. To lease it, im still not sure what it will cost, but I do know the price of the hd package will drop to $9.99 as opposed to the current $10.99 monthly, and the $4.99 mirroring fee for each addtl rcvr will be gone for the leased equipement, instead they will slap on a $4.99 lease fee, which in lamens terms means you pay the same, besides the hd package.


After 3/1, will I be able to lease the HR10-250 or will DirecTV only be leasing their own DVR (the H15 I think its called)?


----------



## blips (Oct 20, 1999)

Dnamertz said:


> After 3/1, will I be able to lease the HR10-250 or will DirecTV only be leasing their own DVR (the H15 I think its called)?


From this post, it seems to me you will be better off getting it before 3/1. When leasing starts you will have to pay the up front cost and a lease fee. If you buy it before then you only pay the up front cost. That is the way I understand it, but you better read that post for yourself.


----------



## swifty (Mar 31, 2002)

Dnamertz said:


> The only thing delaying me from moving to Comcast right now is they don't yet have TiVo, and I need to get caught up on the 40 or 50 hours worth of shows thats currently on my TiVo before I have to send that box back to DirecTV...who knows when I'll be caught up.


You don't ever need to send your TiVo back to DirecTV, you own the box outright. If you cancel DirecTV service, you can still watch your recorded shows on the TiVo without having service on the box.


----------



## Aquatic (Nov 26, 2002)

SteelersTiVo said:


> After reading this post I might consider the H20 as I too just got a Plasma HDTV recently (for the Super Bowl).
> 
> 1st ?: Since I currently have a Philips D*TiVo & would like to continue to use it, I would know how to connect the H20 & the Philips to the TV but how would I resolve what the satellite coaxs get plugged into? Would I need them to run an additional set of lines, one for the Philips & one for the H20? I currently have 2 lines into each of my D*TiVos but the one is on a SD TV, so no worries there.
> QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## SteelersTiVo (Aug 18, 2005)

Thanks Aquatic, great post!  

I will keep this for reference when I make up my mind on what I am going to do which needs to be soon if I am going to get the current HR10-250?

I am currently using indoor antenna(s) for HD OTA, so I might not put up an outside antenna but use those instead to plug into this system.


----------



## Yog-Sothoth (Jun 14, 2005)

To enhance your DVD viewing with your new TV, get a DVD player with upscaling capabilty. I have the Sony DVPNS70H. Don't spend $100 on a MonsterCable HDMI cable; you can find something much cheaper if you look around; I found an HDMI-DVI cable (my TV has a DVI input) at RadioShack for $35, and you can find them even cheaper on the internet.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> Don't spend $100 on a MonsterCable HDMI cable; you can find something much cheaper if you look around; I found an HDMI-DVI cable (my TV has a DVI input) at RadioShack for $35, and you can find them even cheaper on the internet.


Whats the difference in picture quality between an HDMI, component, and S-Video cable?


----------



## Mr2sday (Jul 8, 2005)

You want easy then H10-250 is it. 2 cables from the dish to the receiver. My antenna goes to my multiswitch in my attic. One HDMI from the H10-250 for video, one optical cable to my a/v receiver for audio. You can just as easily have the HDMI cable carry the audio and video to the tv and have one cable do everything.

EDIT: the H10-250 came with the DVI-HDMI cable.


----------



## quillbert (Jul 13, 2003)

New to HD issues...

Currently have a TIVO Series 2 with lifetime service agreement and an ancient (~9yrs) D* box.

We are looking to buy a new HD TV.

Can I get the D* HD tuner and can TIVO series 2 record (standard def programming and channels) from the HD tuner? CSR tells me no but seems you all are saying something else?

Or do I need to keep the ancient D* tuner I have to continue to use the Tivo Series 2?

I'm reluctant to spend $499 on the new HD Tivo system just to have it obsolete in May. Besides I have the lifetime thing on the Series 2 (upgrade from Lifetime on original TIVO 7-8 yrs ago).


----------

