# 20.7.4.RC18



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

Bolt was at "pending restart." After doing so, it came up running 20.7.4.RC18. No info on TiVo website, which still has the info for 20.7.4.RC2. Anyone with info on what's changed?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

m.s said:


> Bolt was at "pending restart." After doing so, it came up running 20.7.4.RC18. No info on TiVo website, which still has the info for 20.7.4.RC2. Anyone with info on what's changed?


It usually take a few days before the web site has the data. BTW, it will overwrite that info, so print it if you want to save it.

Put me down as cynical. Like, what are we losing? If they want classic TiVo UI bugs, there are some I could post. I have posted most of them on TiVo's support forum. Not even an acknowledgement anymore. Most posts there are spam anyway.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

m.s said:


> Bolt was at "pending restart." After doing so, it came up running 20.7.4.RC18. No info on TiVo website, which still has the info for 20.7.4.RC2. Anyone with info on what's changed?


So, did this update change the interface to this new Hydra thing we've been hearing about? Or, are things the same.

Inquiring minds, of people who are also on 'restart', want to know!


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

sharkster said:


> So, did this update change the interface to this new Hydra thing we've been hearing about? Or, are things the same.


No. Hydra is the 21.x release stream.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

m.s said:


> No. Hydra is the 21.x release stream.


Awesome! Thank You


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

m.s said:


> Bolt was at "pending restart." After doing so, it came up running 20.7.4.RC18. No info on TiVo website, which still has the info for 20.7.4.RC2. Anyone with info on what's changed?


I'm betting it's this update that Tivo_Ted was talking about.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I just got brave and restarted my Living Room Bolt and I don't see anything different - well, yet. But it does say 20.7.4.RC18 and I forgot to see what it said before that. All I remembered was 20.7.4.

I don't use Plex, so I don't see anything on that. I just use Netflix, Amazon, and HBO Go and all of those are still there.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I know there are many experienced software people here. I know that RC is Release Candidate. I propose we start thinking it as Release Change. Since TiVo doesn't want to use an additional decimal point in the version, this seems closer to reality. Anyhow, "Candidate" isn't such a popular term these days.


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Also had pending restart, and just got the RC11


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

stevet555 said:


> Is there a page for early/RC access? Already on Hydra, only received RC11 today.


This is apparently not a hydra release. The first two numbers are relevant in addition to the last two. See also post #4.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Yes 20.7.4 RC18 is a release for the old HDUI not the new Hydra UI.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

sharkster said:


> So, did this update change the interface to this new Hydra thing we've been hearing about? Or, are things the same.
> 
> Inquiring minds, of people who are also on 'restart', want to know!


Hydra has been very clearly stated to only be an optional update for machines bought with Gen3 on them, there are ZERO plans to push Hydra onto machines without the owners opting in.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Whatever was updated (looking forward to seeing it when they post it), it must have been a pretty small update because my restart was super fast. It wasn't even nearly like one that had updates in it and it didn't even mention updating during the restarting process.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dianebrat said:


> Hydra has been very clearly stated to only be an optional update for machines bought with Gen3 on them, there are ZERO plans to push Hydra onto machines without the owners opting in.


Since my new BF Roamio OTA was delivered with 20.6.4, I prefer to say that Hydra is an automatic update for new machines only. 

Maybe Bolts are different.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> Since my new BF Roamio OTA was delivered with 20.6.4, I prefer to say that Hydra is an automatic update for new machines only.
> 
> Maybe Bolts are different.


Both of my Bolts have now received this .18 update today and neither have changed to Hydra. Glad I don't have to worry, at least at this point, that it will auto-update to Hydra because I want to skip it.

I'm not sure if this was elemental, but in the last update (7.4 I believe), they put two lines under 'Add & Manage Apps' that had the word Hydra in them. They were automatically checked and I unchecked both of them. I cannot help wonder if I had left them checked that it would have auto-updated to Hydra simply because those items were checked. At some point after that both of those lines were removed entirely. Being the paranoid (I would call it 'cautious' ) that I am I do keep checking to make sure they don't sneak that back in there.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sharkster said:


> Both of my Bolts have now received this .18 update today and neither have changed to Hydra. Glad I don't have to worry, at least at this point, that it will auto-update to Hydra because I want to skip it.
> 
> I'm not sure if this was elemental, but in the last update (7.4 I believe), they put two lines under 'Add & Manage Apps' that had the word Hydra in them. They were automatically checked and I unchecked both of them. I cannot help wonder if I had left them checked that it would have auto-updated to Hydra simply because those items were checked. At some point after that both of those lines were removed entirely. Being the paranoid (I would call it 'cautious' ) that I am I do keep checking to make sure they don't sneak that back in there.


Want more confusion? I have two basic Roamio boxes. Neither has even seen Hydra. But one has those Experience apps and one doesn't. I have four non-Hydra Mini boxes. All have different default apps. I'm not worried that Hydra will be force onto my TiVo boxes. I'm more concerned they will be left to die a slow death, with something new that is only for Hydra boxes. That would be sad. I guess we wait.

Maybe we need a guide update failure to take our minds off Hydra?


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

LMAO, Joe. I'm sure the wait won't be long.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The only way anyone has "accidentally " moved to hydra is if they got as voice remote and did not read the requirements. Clicking on an app does not get it done.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

sharkster said:


> Whatever was updated (looking forward to seeing it when they post it), it must have been a pretty small update because my restart was super fast. It wasn't even nearly like one that had updates in it and it didn't even mention updating during the restarting process.


I think they must have changed how updates are done. The past few updates, the loading phase is quite long and the restart phase is quite short.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Ted was talking about this the other week. It is supposed to fix the buffer being destroyed by a recording starting on the channel the tuner is on and also some other bugs...

I do not have it yet. It seems people with Bolts are getting it. I would PM Ted, but I think he is taking a well deserved few days off. No posts from him since Sat.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

samccfl99 said:


> It seems people with Bolts are getting it.


Roamio OTA got it earlier today.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I hope it's a coincidence, but the update to RC18 just installed on two Roamio boxes. I hope TiVo's servers are down, since a lot is not working. No VCM Connections, Search, WTW but network diagnostics are ok.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> Hydra has been very clearly stated to only be an optional update for machines bought with Gen3 on them, there are ZERO plans to push Hydra onto machines without the owners opting in.


But "plans" can change, suddenly even. I predict Hydra will eventually be the only UI for boxes that can run it. Hope they get it fixed up to where I like it by then. And get their servers working well enough to support it on all boxes without spinning blue circles.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

dlfl said:


> But "plans" can change, suddenly even. I predict Hydra will eventually be the only UI for boxes that can run it. Hope they get it fixed up to where I like it by then. And get their servers working well enough to support it on all boxes without spinning blue circles.


Yes things change and predicting the future will always be just a guess, however one's guess can be based on available information/facts or not. TiVo has stated they do not intent on forcing Hydra on existing devices, that is the only available information we have. Deciding to predict something different is certainly a valid prediction but it is based on feelings not information/facts. I prefer to stick with information/facts when possible.

My current less than one week experience with Hydra on a new Roamio OTA is less than positive so I am certainly in the camp of wanting to be able to stay on the old HDUI.


----------



## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

My bolt running the classic UI updated to 20.7.4.RC18. The first thing I noticed was that my closed caption text changed from white text to green (Yuck).


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> Yes things change and predicting the future will always be just a guess, however one's guess can be based on available information/facts or not. TiVo has stated they do not intent on forcing Hydra on existing devices, that is the only available information we have. Deciding to predict something different is certainly a valid prediction but it is based on feelings not information/facts. I prefer to stick with information/facts when possible.
> .............


Not just based on "feelings". There are numerous examples of emphatically proclaimed plans changing. Remembering a president in 1990: "Read my lips ..... no new taxes!" 

I find it hard to believe that TiVo will want to go on supporting two different UI's for the lifetime of the boxes that can use Gen4.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> I hope it's a coincidence, but the update to RC18 just installed on two Roamio boxes. I hope TiVo's servers are down, since a lot is not working. No VCM Connections, Search, WTW but network diagnostics are ok.


It's coincidence, saw the usual server BSC nonsense with RC9 on my Roamio this morning.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

slowbiscuit said:


> It's coincidence, saw the usual server BSC nonsense with RC9 on my Roamio this morning.


Everything seems ok now with one exception: the VCM Connections on my Roamio OTA w/Hydra are failing. But since GC and indexing have not worked since the day I installed it, I don't really care.

Everything on the classic interface is happy.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

dlfl said:


> Not just based on "feelings". There are numerous examples of emphatically proclaimed plans changing. Remembering a president in 1990: "Read my lips ..... no new taxes!"
> 
> I find it hard to believe that TiVo will want to go on supporting two different UI's for the lifetime of the boxes that can use Gen4.


Why? What do you think support is going to mean for the HDUI going forward? My guess it means they do nothing at all. In any event until I see all their cable partners agreeing to move to Hydra, not "supporting" the old HDUI isn't even a possibility. I am actually surprised they are allowing Bolt VOX units to role back to the HDUI now. I am guessing what goes first is the ability for people buying new equipment to move back to the HDUI.

So when new units can not be rolled back and when all their cable partners have moved to Hydra is a point where I would think the probability of us being able to stay on the old HDUI decreases substantially but even then I am not sure TiVo will see it being in their best interest to force everyone to convert.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Hopefully they hold off until ATSC 3 equipment is available. Pretty sure I will then buy another Tivo or switch to the competition.


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> Why? What do you think support is going to mean for the HDUI going forward? My guess it means they do nothing at all.


One can cut the irony of that comment with a knife - you do realize you're posting to a thread about a brand new HDUI release, don't you?


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jth tv said:


> Hopefully they hold off until ATSC 3 equipment is available. Pretty sure I will then buy another Tivo or switch to the competition.


As an OTA only user that is where I am at, my TiVos do what I want to do very well, leave them alone and provide good guide data is all I need TiVo to do for the next few years. When ATSC 3.0 broadcast start maybe a point where TiVo gets to push Bolt OTA users to Hydra, if they decide to sell some type of external ATSC 3.0 tuners that can be used with Bolts, if they do I will be fine moving to Hydra then.

For now I am going to continue to test Hydra on the new Roamio OTA I got setup last Saturday, but so far I see nothing in it that is a plus for me and a whole lot of negatives.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

m.s said:


> One can cut the irony of that comment with a knife - you do realize you're posting to a thread about a brand new HDUI release, don't you?


Unless this update introduces some new major issue or some of TiVos cable partners required something I actually expect this update to ether be the last or nearly the last update for the old HDUI. I have no expectation that TiVo will continue to spend resources on HDUI, no more than I expected them to do much with the old SDUI after the release of the HDUI. Back then I advised people to stay with the SDUI as the HDUI sucked big time when released on the Premiere. There certainly is some irony there .


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Personally, on Gen3 UI, I just want them to fix a few regression bugs, then leave it alone and don't update anymore. It works fine for most things and any change can introduce issues in areas that I do care about. Three years of no updates, no new features and no new bugs. That would be nice.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sfhub said:


> Personally, on Gen3 UI, I just want them to fix a few regression bugs, then leave it alone and don't update anymore. It works fine for most things and any change can introduce issues in areas that I do care about. Three years of no updates, no new features and no new bugs. That would be nice.


If they just fix items in Diagnostics I would be happy. Like cable card paired and RS Corrected errors. These two span basic Roamio and Bolt.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> If they just fix items in Diagnostics I would be happy. Like cable card paired and RS Corrected errors. These two span basic Roamio and Bolt.


Is something wrong with the RS Corrected and Uncorrected? I am sure you will probably shoot a link back...

I always wondered about those stats.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

dlfl said:


> I find it hard to believe that TiVo will want to go on supporting two different UI's for the lifetime of the boxes that can use Gen4.


Maybe if they ever figure out how to put it on Series4, they might force it on to that and above, but any older models, I am sure would not be able to run it. Probably even Series4 could not even run it because they did not run anywhere near fast enough in HD Mode to begin with.

Also it will take them way into next year to get Gen4 up to snuff. Look how long it took to get Gen3 to where it is today. I just started in 05/2012 with Tivo and so many bugs have been fixed and a few nice mods have been done since then, with a lot of crappy problems along the way, but I would NEVER get an X1 unless all tuners are buffering (at least), just like I will NEVER go to Gen4 without the Live Guide, that helped to make a Tivo a Tivo.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

samccfl99 said:


> Is something wrong with the RS Corrected and Uncorrected? I am sure you will probably shoot a link back...
> I always wondered about those stats.


On a basic Roamio or Bolt the RS Corrected is always zero. RS Uncorrected works. If you want to know what they are counting -> Reed-Solomon error correction - Wikipedia


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> On a basic Roamio or Bolt the RS Corrected is always zero. RS Uncorrected works. If you want to know what they are counting -> Reed-Solomon error correction - Wikipedia


Oh, I got a RP. Thanks, but no thanks...LOL. I looked at it for a minute. I am more of a software than hardware person and it sure looks very technical. I am old and tired and not in the mood, but thanks Joe. I wish I would have gotten that BF Roamio OTA to play with. If it was a Bolt OTA for that price, I probably would have gotten one...

Off topic...sorry...


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

samccfl99 said:


> Ted was talking about this the other week. It is supposed to fix the buffer being destroyed by a recording starting on the channel the tuner is on and also some other bugs...
> 
> I do not have it yet. It seems people with Bolts are getting it. I would PM Ted, but I think he is taking a well deserved few days off. No posts from him since Sat.


I think the buffer issue was hydra only. Not the Older interface. But maybe I'm wrong?


----------



## JandS (Oct 1, 2010)

Buffer issue on Roamio for sure, we hate it.

I wonder whether advertisers have any idea about this happening, it must skew their ad views a lot.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

I think they fixed CC in fast forward. It used to work fine, but then for a while fast forward CC was garbled, unusable. Now it works fine again.


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

reneg said:


> My *bolt running the classic UI* updated to 20.7.4.RC18. The first thing I noticed was that *my closed caption text changed from white text to green* (Yuck).


Roamio Basic 500GB and Roamio OTA 500GB - 20.7.4.RC4 -> 20.7.4.RC18 - CC remained as white text on a black background (no change).

Over the next few days, I'll see if the C130 errors were fixed.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

I just got the update by forcing a restart and have essentially lost all network connectivity to the TiVo servers. At least I don't have a bunch of shows on top of my TiVo Central any more!


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just got the update by forcing a restart and have essentially lost all network connectivity to the TiVo servers. At least I don't have a bunch of shows on top of my TiVo Central any more!
> 
> View attachment 31920


are you able to watch youtube or any other apps or no network connection at all? installet it on basic roamio lastnight now no internet connectivity just on that box the bedroom bolt has hyda and works also internet on pc's work also


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

ajwees41 said:


> are you able to watch youtube or any other apps or no network connection at all? installet it on basic roamio lastnight now no internet connectivity just on that box the bedroom bolt has hyda and works also internet on pc's work also


Yes, TiVo tells me my internet connection is ok and apps like YouTube and Netflix work, just no TiVo central pics. Or a search in TiVo Central tells me no results available.


----------



## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just got the update by forcing a restart and have essentially lost all network connectivity to the TiVo servers. *At least I don't have a bunch of shows on top of my TiVo Central any more!*
> 
> View attachment 31920


Livin' the dream! 

I had three Roamios (one Basic, two OTA) 'Pending Restart' this afternoon so I Rebooted (via Help Menu) Roamio Basic 500GB (on FiOS) and Roamio OTA 500GB (on OTA); I'm going to let Roamio OTA 1TB do it on it's own. The icons on the top disappeared from both but came back in ~2-3 seconds on the OTA; ~7-8 seconds on the FiOS. I just checked and they're still there on both.

Roamio or Bolt? Cable w/ lots of channels?


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

ClearToLand said:


> Livin' the dream!
> 
> I had three Roamios (one Basic, two OTA) 'Pending Restart' this afternoon so I Rebooted (via Help Menu) Roamio Basic 500GB (on FiOS) and Roamio OTA 500GB (on OTA); I'm going to let Roamio OTA 1TB do it on it's own. The icons on the top disappeared from both but came back in ~2-3 seconds on the OTA; ~7-8 seconds on the FiOS. I just checked and they're still there on both.
> 
> Roamio or Bolt? Cable w/ lots of channels?


Icons just came back about 5 minutes ago, like in your case they almost always come back within 5-10 seconds after a reboot, this is the longest I've ever seen with them totally gone and not a warning at the top about a network issue (about 15-20 minutes).

I have a Roamio Plus on cable. Despite icons coming back still no search and lag when opening a show (blue spinning circle).


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

At 7pm Pacific, very bad BSC's.


----------



## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

JACKASTOR said:


> I think the buffer issue was hydra only. Not the Older interface. But maybe I'm wrong?


You are wrong. I have the buffer issue, and I don't have Hydra. I don't have RC18 as of yet either.


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> I just got the update by forcing a restart and have essentially lost all network connectivity to the TiVo servers. At least I don't have a bunch of shows on top of my TiVo Central any more!
> 
> View attachment 31920


They must be having network issues. My Roamio Pro on 21.7.2.RC11 is having issues, too.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

modnar said:


> They must be having network issues. My Roamio Pro on 21.7.2.RC11 is having issues, too.


Yeah, it's strange as some stuff is coming through like Skip Mode on a show that just finished at 11.


----------



## philco782 (Sep 28, 2014)

ITS FIXED!!! Buffer death bug is fixed! (Premiere4/Gen3UI).  They also fixed another annoyance where once you finish with the buffer of the show before a recording, it used to then jump to live. Not that bad of an annoyance, as nothing would be wiped out. Now it starts at the beginning of the recording.

THANK YOU TIVO_TED AND all you guys at TiVo. I am really happy that we have employee(s) participating here.


----------



## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

ClearToLand said:


> Roamio Basic 500GB and Roamio OTA 500GB - 20.7.4.RC4 -> 20.7.4.RC18 - CC remained as white text on a black background (no change).
> 
> Over the next few days, I'll see if the C130 errors were fixed.


My Roamio updated and CC remained white text. Don't know what to make of it, but on my Bolt, the CC text definitely changed after the update.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Icons just came back about 5 minutes ago, like in your case they almost always come back within 5-10 seconds after a reboot, this is the longest I've ever seen with them totally gone and not a warning at the top about a network issue (about 15-20 minutes).
> 
> I have a Roamio Plus on cable. Despite icons coming back still no search and lag when opening a show (blue spinning circle).


Yeah, I remember the first time I noticed them gone and was thrilled. Then they were back. Same thing happened for me with that dreadful 'What to Watch Now'. *sigh* Then it came back. 

Those are two things of which I wish we had choice. I'd get rid of both in a hot second.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Hi everyone. I'm glad that people are getting gen3 RC18 now (this is not gen4/Hydra). I have been pushing to get the live buffer fix out ASAP. We also incorporated a fix to support the 4K Amazon app on MINI VOX devices and a network disconnect on MINI VOX devices. There was also a regression that broke the shortcut for cycling audio tracks by holding down the "C" key. The reason the build number advanced so far was because there have been a bunch of interim releases to address issues with some of our cable customers.

Also, just to reassure people (again), we have no plans to push gen4/Hydra to gen3 customers. We will likely focus most of our new feature development on the gen4 code base, but we're not done with gen3 yet. As a matter of fact, we've got a couple of really fun things we're going to launch on both gen3 and gen4 in January which will work across Premiere, Roamio, BOLT and MINI...


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Thanks, Ted! I feel that we are fortunate to have you and appreciate all your assistance and attention to problems, even the little ones.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone. I'm glad that people are getting gen3 RC18 now (this is not gen4/Hydra).


Hi Ted. Thanks. Want to save some typing? Drop the "RC". Just leave the number.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> Hi Ted. Thanks. Want to save some typing? Drop the "RC". Just leave the number.


I got it early this morning on my RP and XL4. No, I think I like the RC. The higher the number, the better it should be, but that is not always the case...but really, I think RC2 should not be the first...LOL.

Thanks Ted, I tested the buffer/recording problem and it is back the way it was. That was the only thing wrong for me! Hope you had a few days of rest and thanks for the tip about Gen3. I know Tivo, Inc can't forget about Gen3...like it should be!


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

In the software programming world, the RC is normally dropped on production software releases. Read whatever you wish into that. Like, where else do you find it?


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> In the software programming world, the RC is normally dropped on production software releases. Read whatever you wish into that. Like, where else do you find it?


Yeah, but to remove it requires a new build. Should be low risk just changing a string, but I've seen problems happen before. So, not just a new build, but also another complete set of testing. Easiest to just leave there.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

m.s said:


> Yeah, but to remove it requires a new build. Should be low risk just changing a string, but I've seen problems happen before. So, not just a new build, but also another complete set of testing. Easiest to just leave there.


They could retrieve the human-friendly readable version of the build string from the network like everything else they retrieve from the network and it wouldn't require a new build. If the network is not available, they can just print the esoteric build number.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sfhub said:


> They could retrieve the human-friendly readable version of the build string from the network like everything else they retrieve from the network and it wouldn't require a new build. If the network is not available, they can just print the esoteric build number.





m.s said:


> Yeah, but to remove it requires a new build. Should be low risk just changing a string, but I've seen problems happen before. So, not just a new build, but also another complete set of testing. Easiest to just leave there.


I have it! TiVo should trademark RC, then take that cola company to court. I'll compromise: just phase it in.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

sfhub said:


> They could retrieve the human-friendly readable version of the build string from the network like everything else they retrieve from the network and it wouldn't require a new build. If the network is not available, they can just print the esoteric build number.


Seriously? You want a blue circle because it needs to display the release on the software information screen?


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

Information for RC18 has been posted at the TiVo Software Information Page.

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone. I'm glad that people are getting gen3 RC18 now (this is not gen4/Hydra). I have been pushing to get the live buffer fix out ASAP. We also incorporated a fix to support the 4K Amazon app on MINI VOX devices and a network disconnect on MINI VOX devices. There was also a regression that broke the shortcut for cycling audio tracks by holding down the "C" key. The reason the build number advanced so far was because there have been a bunch of interim releases to address issues with some of our cable customers.
> 
> Also, just to reassure people (again), we have no plans to push gen4/Hydra to gen3 customers. We will likely focus most of our new feature development on the gen4 code base, but we're not done with gen3 yet. As a matter of fact, we've got a couple of really fun things we're going to launch on both gen3 and gen4 in January which will work across Premiere, Roamio, BOLT and MINI...


Nothing like a Good Teaser...... lol


----------



## philco782 (Sep 28, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> In the software programming world, the RC is normally dropped on production software releases. Read whatever you wish into that. Like, where else do you find it?


I mentioned that a few weeks ago as well, it was explained that there was some kind of bug that might prevent some units from installing an update if RC wasn't in the string, so it's basically a fixture going forward.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Music App on Roamio is still broken in RC18.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Anybody know where this is located?

*Additional support *

If you need help with any issues pertaining to this software release, please visit the Additional Support Documentation article.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> Seriously? You want a blue circle because it needs to display the release on the software information screen?


Unless one is an idiot they could implement this without ever getting close to a spinning circle. The version string (or version status - alpha/beta/RC/production) is not changing constantly, so it can just be picked up during nightly network connects. There is a default to use that is baked into the software so there is never a "blocking" need to access the network. If there is something wrong with the nightly net connects, then you have bigger problems to worry about than a version string.


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

sfhub said:


> They could retrieve the human-friendly readable version of the build string from the network like everything else they retrieve from the network and it wouldn't require a new build. If the network is not available, they can just print the esoteric build number.


Why go to that trouble, complexity, and resource use for an esoteric, cosmetic change? Just ignore the "RC" if you don't like it.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

m.s said:


> Why go to that trouble, complexity, and resource use for an esoteric, cosmetic change? Just ignore the "RC" if you don't like it.


Honestly I don't personally care. Someone made the case that a rebuild was needed to get rid of RC so it wasn't worth it. *IF* someone cared, there are ways to implement getting rid of RC without needing a rebuild. Other than retreiving the release candidate status from network during a nightly connect, one could alternatively just have a date embedded in RCs, after which they automatically become production and drop the RC in the version string.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone. I'm glad that people are getting gen3 RC18 now (this is not gen4/Hydra). I have been pushing to get the live buffer fix out ASAP. We also incorporated a fix to support the 4K Amazon app on MINI VOX devices and a network disconnect on MINI VOX devices. There was also a regression that broke the shortcut for cycling audio tracks by holding down the "C" key. The reason the build number advanced so far was because there have been a bunch of interim releases to address issues with some of our cable customers.
> 
> Also, just to reassure people (again), we have no plans to push gen4/Hydra to gen3 customers. We will likely focus most of our new feature development on the gen4 code base, but we're not done with gen3 yet. As a matter of fact, we've got a couple of really fun things we're going to launch on both gen3 and gen4 in January which will work across Premiere, Roamio, BOLT and MINI...


Ted did they remove the hydra apps from the boxes? up until yesterday our basic roamio had to Hydra apps although they didn't do anything?


----------



## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

sfhub said:


> Honestly I don't personally care. Someone made the case that a rebuild was needed to get rid of RC so it wasn't worth it. *IF* someone cared, there are ways to implement getting rid of RC without needing a rebuild. Other than retreiving the release candidate status from network during a nightly connect, one could alternatively just have a date embedded in RCs, after which they automatically become production and drop the RC in the version string.


Whoosh............


----------



## webminster (Dec 13, 2016)

Is anyone seeing any audio lipsync issues since this update? I got it a couple days ago, and I've been noticing lips moving before sound on several things (CNN, BRAVO to name a couple). Nothing else changed except the update.

I switched over to my Windows Media Center and played a recording of same show made same time, running through the same HDMI path to soundbar/TV chain... it looked fine. So far seems to discount everything except the TiVo...

EDIT: Another observation, this is on Xfinity. I noticed that watching the channels still in MPEG2 (locals, a couple of SD channels) the lipsync was fine. But I'm seeing issues on the MPEG4 channels. Wondering if something got broken in MPEG4 decoding...


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

m.s said:


> Whoosh............


Yes, point appears to be successfully missed.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

webminster said:


> Is anyone seeing any audio lipsync issues since this update? I got it a couple days ago, and I've been noticing lips moving before sound on several things (CNN, BRAVO to name a couple). Nothing else changed except the update.
> 
> EDIT: Another observation, this is on Xfinity. I noticed that watching the channels still in MPEG2 (locals, a couple of SD channels) the lipsync was fine. But I'm seeing issues on the MPEG4 channels. Wondering if something got broken in MPEG4 decoding...


All of a sudden I saw it on Hawaii 5-0 tonite (MPEG2 and Not in QM) in the middle of it, but I just got out and back in and it seemed fine again. I been running it all day, mostly MPEG4 in QM. Watched Agents of Shield before 5-0 and did not notice any problem or all day. Different channel...Comcast too, but none of this on RC2.

BUT I did have a *random reboot* with only one thing recording and one playing. I rarely have those. Anyone else have one?


----------



## minimeh (Jun 20, 2011)

webminster said:


> Is anyone seeing any audio lipsync issues since this update?


Yup, we're seeing the picture and sound out of sync as well. Noticed it first on MSNBC using Xfinity.

Edit:
I just read in A/V sync messed up - Comcast Bay Area that someone is seeing sync problems using a Comcast DVR as well as a Tivo. He's thinking it's a Comcast Bay Area problem.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> Ted did they remove the hydra apps from the boxes? up until yesterday our basic roamio had to Hydra apps although they didn't do anything?


Removed -> *478286:* Add & Manage Apps screen may list TiVo Experience 4 downgrade and upgrade as selectable elements

Other changes -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


----------



## Finalrinse (Jan 13, 2005)

I have (2) Roamio's and (5) Mini's.
The only two items that have not updated to 18 are my two Mini's version 2. I've been forcing Service Connections but still nothing. Is there a reason my (3) v1 Mini's updated but my (2) v2 Mini's won't?
Thanks,
Tom


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone. I'm glad that people are getting gen3 RC18 now (this is not gen4/Hydra). I have been pushing to get the live buffer fix out ASAP. We also incorporated a fix to support the 4K Amazon app on MINI VOX devices and a network disconnect on MINI VOX devices. There was also a regression that broke the shortcut for cycling audio tracks by holding down the "C" key. The reason the build number advanced so far was because there have been a bunch of interim releases to address issues with some of our cable customers.


Thanks Ted. Can you get them to fix the music playback from TiVo Desktop on Roamio's? This was also a regression iwhich had been broken once before and then fixed but has come back again in 20.7.2 I believe. Seems to just be with the Roamio code. 

Scott


----------



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

minimeh said:


> Yup, we're seeing the picture and sound out of sync as well. Noticed it first on MSNBC using Xfinity.
> 
> Edit:
> I just read in A/V sync messed up - Comcast Bay Area that someone is seeing sync problems using a Comcast DVR as well as a Tivo. He's thinking it's a Comcast Bay Area problem.


I have terrible A/V sync on MSNBC since Wednesday in Chicago (Xfinity, TiVo Premiere). But people in nearby suburbs say they do not see it. I'm still on RC2.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Finalrinse said:


> I have (2) Roamio's and (5) Mini's.
> The only two items that have not updated to 18 are my two Mini's version 2. I've been forcing Service Connections but still nothing. Is there a reason my (3) v1 Mini's updated but my (2) v2 Mini's won't?
> Thanks,
> Tom


My Mini boxes also are waiting. I guess we just wait.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> Removed -> *478286:* Add & Manage Apps screen may list TiVo Experience 4 downgrade and upgrade as selectable elements
> 
> Other changes -> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


guess that means the web interface will be the only upgrade path


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> guess that means the web interface will be the only upgrade path


Today. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.


----------



## webminster (Dec 13, 2016)

Phil_C said:


> I have terrible A/V sync on MSNBC since Wednesday in Chicago (Xfinity, TiVo Premiere). But people in nearby suburbs say they do not see it. I'm still on RC2.


At a loss to do with this sync issue. Is bad enough on some channels to make me sick. Can't figure out if it is the TiVo or something Comcast has done (particularly since it doesn't appear to be affecting the SD or local channels, only the channels switched to MP4).


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As a matter of fact, we've got a couple of really fun things we're going to launch on both gen3 and gen4 in January which will work across Premiere, Roamio, BOLT and MINI...


I would MUCH rather you spend all of the combined company's available resources to fix the guide data issues before you tackle anything else.

Really, it's that bad. And it's not just me saying so. And please don't say that it takes years like it did for TMS, that's a load of bull.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> I would MUCH rather you spend all of the combined company's available resources to fix the guide data issues before you tackle anything else.
> 
> Really, it's that bad. And it's not just me saying so. And please don't say that it takes years like it did for TMS, that's a load of bull.


+1


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> As a matter of fact, we've got a couple of really fun things we're going to launch on both gen3 and gen4 in January which will work across Premiere, Roamio, BOLT and MINI...


With the Premiere not even having full HDUI, it seems any change would be awkward. Not to mention a waste of time & resources. Please fix the guide data first. Please. How about making it a community project? That would be...


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

Forced service connections to both of my Mini v2s this morning. RC18 downloaded and installed on both.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DBrunetti said:


> Forced service connections to both of my Mini v2s this morning. RC18 downloaded and installed on both.


Same here.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

webminster said:


> At a loss to do with this sync issue. Is bad enough on some channels to make me sick. Can't figure out if it is the TiVo or something Comcast has done (particularly since it doesn't appear to be affecting the SD or local channels, only the channels switched to MP4).


Could it be a setting on your television? It was for me when I turned it off it solved my issue.


----------



## webminster (Dec 13, 2016)

Don't think so... I've rechecked the audio settings (LG 65EF9500) multiple times, no settings seem to have changed from before (including any settings for audio delay) - all audio delay settings are disabled. Same for the soundbar in front of it on the HDMI chain (Yamaha YSP-2500). Given that it seems channel dependent (not seeing it on locals, for instance, only on the MP4-encoded channels), and not seeing it on my WMC box that passes signal down the same path... the TiVo is the only thing I can see that would be causing the issue.


----------



## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

webminster said:


> Don't think so... I've rechecked the audio settings (LG 65EF9500) multiple times, no settings seem to have changed from before (including any settings for audio delay) - all audio delay settings are disabled. Same for the soundbar in front of it on the HDMI chain (Yamaha YSP-2500). Given that it seems channel dependent (not seeing it on locals, for instance, only on the MP4-encoded channels), and not seeing it on my WMC box that passes signal down the same path... the TiVo is the only thing I can see that would be causing the issue.


Unless it's a sync issue with the station from your cable provider. Which is one othe possibility. But that doesn't mean it's not a TiVo issue.


----------



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Got RC18 last night. Sync problem still exists on mp4 channels. People around me who have Comcast boxes do not see the sync problem. So I am now also thinking that this is a TiVo problem.


----------



## Nak (Aug 18, 2010)

samccfl99 said:


> BUT I did have a *random reboot* with only one thing recording and one playing. I rarely have those. Anyone else have one?


 I have had 2 random reboots on 2 different Bolt+ devices since RC18 loaded. (A total of 4 random reboots...) Just watching TV, no apps.


----------



## cbrrider (Feb 2, 2005)

So far, 1 random reboot while watching SNL, when it was recording.


----------



## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I too, with RC18, am getting the Synch issue on only certain channels. As someone who is tasked with fixing lip synch as part of my job, I'm really annoyed by it. This is way out, but only on certain channels, and only after the update.


----------



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

The A/V sync issue started before the recent update on my XL4. I believe I was on RC2 at that time. As someone else noted, the problem seems to be on mpeg4 channels only. The degree varies, with MSNBC being the worst by far. I mean IT IS REALLY BAD.


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I think the 'losing buffer' issue seems fixed on my Bolt. I was watching something semi-live, btwn 8 and 9pm, and at 9 all the tuners were going to be recording. The only thing, and I don't think it's elemental, is that the show I was watching was on the same channel that was going to begin recording. When 9:00 came along, and I was still about 20 minutes behind, it didn't push me to 9:00. 

Yeah, I could have just recorded the show but I was actually doing it that way purposely last night just to see if they fixed that buffer-killing problem.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Hi everyone. I'm glad that people are getting gen3 RC18 now (this is not gen4/Hydra).


****IMPORTANT****

Ted, please look at this thread starting at Post #75. 
20.7.4.RC18
There is definitely an audio sync problem again. Not exactly the same as in 20.7.*2* or as bad. It is on and off (I have not checked this morning, but it has been posted already). Mpeg2 and Mpeg4. Seems worse on the Mini. I get out and in of the recording and it resyncs. Sometimes it does it and corrects itself. Please have them look at it (if not patched yet). As you may know, we had to wait almost 2 months to have this fixed in 20.7.4.RC2 when it got broken in 20.7.2. I am on Comcast, but I am sure it is not them. Also when transferring a Mpeg2 recording using KMTTG, several times I had to use a very old one and not use the faster Transport Stream option. This I do not know if it is a problem with RC18. It does happen sometimes, but it has happened more since RC18.

Also I have only had one random reboot, but some others are reporting more in this thread.

*HOPE YOU SEE THIS TODAY. THANK YOU.*


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Phil_C said:


> The A/V sync issue started before the recent update on my XL4. I believe I was on RC2 at that time. As someone else noted, the problem seems to be on mpeg4 channels only. The degree varies, with MSNBC being the worst by far. I mean IT IS REALLY BAD.


it's the same with comcast here, yet appears to be worse at some times than others.

i have multiple avenues to correct this, but with it being random, it makes it a pita.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> it's the same with comcast here, yet appears to be worse at some times than others.
> 
> i have multiple avenues to correct this, but with it being random, it makes it a pita.


Well hopefully Ted will see my post since I used his post to reply.

It is strange. So many regressions. I would love to go to Gen4, mostly to get rid of the freaking audio cutout going in and out of TC and the Voice Command, BUT NO...LOL. Not for a while.

Alabama...Oh My...


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

I have not seen any audio sync issues when using one Roamio and two Minis. All three were updated as of last Saturday to RC18. I've tried using QM, multiple live channels and recordings. We're on Cox and haven't seen any audio sync issues since the QM problem was fixed in one of the last updates.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Phil_C said:


> The A/V sync issue started before the recent update on my XL4. I believe I was on RC2 at that time. As someone else noted, the problem seems to be on mpeg4 channels only. The degree varies, with MSNBC being the worst by far. I mean IT IS REALLY BAD.


I wonder. Have you seen problems with CNBC or CNN? I bring it up since those also have a crawl. I'm lucky to not have MPEG-4 yet, because I watch MSNBC all day and most nights.


----------



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

JoeKustra said:


> I wonder. Have you seen problems with CNBC or CNN? I bring it up since those also have a crawl. I'm lucky to not have MPEG-4 yet, because I watch MSNBC all day and most nights.


Yes, CNBC and CNN also are out of sync. So is any other mpeg4 channel I check, although I have checked only a few. A&E has no crawl, but is as bad as the others. Most seem to be equally bad, but MSNBC is super bad.

Not good for this old retired guy who also watches too much MSNBC. Hey, maybe this is my chance to stop watching all that depressing news.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Phil_C said:


> Hey, maybe this is my chance to stop watching all that depressing news.


Sorry, that trip to Mars is already fully booked.


----------



## DBrunetti (Dec 6, 2016)

Update:
So I'm now seeing sync issues on a local newscast on one of the Minis. I also watch various shows on MSNBC at all times during the day and did not have any problems.


----------



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

JoeKustra said:


> Sorry, that trip to Mars is already fully booked.


Ha! Might have been a solution. Then again, RiVo might issue RC∞ for Mars.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

I been watching MSNBC (mpeg-4) too, most of the afternoon in QM. Also some CSPAN and PBS (mpeg-2) in QM. Not seeing any more of this. I first noticed this right away on CBS (mpeg-2) on Friday evening on one show, was okay on CBS last night. We shall see. They may patch it and never tell us. Not unusual...


----------



## stini777 (Mar 16, 2016)

"We also incorporated a fix to support the 4K Amazon app on MINI VOX devices"

I still can't play 4k video in the Amazon app on my Bolt without getting the "Problem Occurred" error. Any chance of getting this fixed?









Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

stini777 said:


> "We also incorporated a fix to support the 4K Amazon app on MINI VOX devices"
> 
> I still can't play 4k video in the Amazon app on my Bolt without getting the "Problem Occurred" error. Any chance of getting this fixed?
> 
> ...


Is this just an issue with the HDUI? Because the Amazon app works great with my Mini Vox on Hydra. It starts streaming in UltraHD right away. Now if they would just enable HDR things would be perfect with the Amazon app on my Mini Vox.


----------



## stini777 (Mar 16, 2016)

aaronwt said:


> Is this just an issue with the HDUI? Because the Amazon app works great with my Mini Vox on Hydra. It starts streaming in UltraHD right away. Now if they would just enable HDR things would be perfect with the Amazon app on my Mini Vox.


Nope... I'm running Hydra on two Bolts and it happens on both. Amazon UHD runs fine directly through both TV's (on board apps) so I don't think it's an issue with my network either. Also, the Amazon shows that I've made OnePasses for default to the HD stream, not the UHD stream.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

I hate to ask a stupid question, so I will ask it here. I tried to get to the Xfinity app on my Mini (never tried it there since many updates ago when it was there) and it was not there. I could not find the options to check/uncheck apps. I looked everywhere and then I went to my Roamio (xfinity is there) and under APPS, it had ADD AND MANAGE APPS. This is not an option on my Mini, only ADD APPS was there (that is on the mini), which does not have the Manage. Anyone?

*THANKS*


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

samccfl99 said:


> I hate to ask a stupid question, so I will ask it here. I tried to get to the Xfinity app on my Mini (never tried it there since many updates ago when it was there) and it was not there. I could not find the options to check/uncheck apps. I looked everywhere and then I went to my Roamio (xfinity is there) and under APPS, it had ADD AND MANAGE APPS. This is not an option on my Mini, only ADD APPS was there (that is on the mini), which does not have the Manage. Anyone?
> *THANKS*


A Mini inherits its apps from its host. Enable something else, then power cycle the Mini. It may require a restart of the host also. Any app checked on the host should be on its Mini. The Mini may also have other default apps, but those are not present in My Shows. The default apps on my Mini boxes are sort of random. The checked apps always work though.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

the comcast app on a mini if fickle. Go to live TV a few times can help make it appear.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> A Mini inherits its apps from its host. Enable something else, then power cycle the Mini. It may require a restart of the host also. Any app checked on the host should be on its Mini. The Mini may also have other default apps, but those are not present in My Shows. The default apps on my Mini boxes are sort of random. The checked apps always work though.


Thanks. Hard to reboot the RP. ALABAMA, that's why...LOL

Another stupid coding bug? It has been rebooted many times and RC18 came a day later..soooo....

I uncheck and checked Xfinity and also added HBO GO for kicks. Rebooted Mini and HBO GO is there, but no Xfinity. Should I call support?  *NO!!!

P.S. The apps on the mini are not all the same as the host...RIDICULOUS.*


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

samccfl99 said:


> *P.S. The apps on the mini are not all the same as the host...RIDICULOUS.*


The apps I see on my Mini boxes, in no particular order or pattern. iHeartRadio, Pandora, Plex, Vewd/Opera TV and Baeble. Not all are on all boxes.

No, calling support would not be my first choice for anything.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> No, calling support would not be my first choice for anything.


Well you saw my post. Maybe for kicks I might call, but not today. Does VOD work on your mini's? I have used it a long time ago on mine (only got one V1) and it worked fine (or was that Netflix that I do not have anymore?). Connected with Moca.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

jrtroo said:


> the comcast app on a mini if fickle. Go to live TV a few times can help make it appear.


Wow, that actually worked and it played fine. I missed the beginning Of Kimmel last night and wanted to see the whole thing with his son and the CHIP program. Thanks.

Such great testers and beta testers Tivo, Inc has...




__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

samccfl99 said:


> Well you saw my post. Maybe for kicks I might call, but not today. Does VOD work on your mini's? I have used it a long time ago on mine (only got one V1) and it worked fine (or was that Netflix that I do not have anymore?). Connected with Moca.


My feed doesn't support VOD for TiVo. Or the other way around.


----------



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

A/V sync problems appear to be fixed.


----------



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Phil_C said:


> A/V sync problems appear to be fixed.


IDK, around 1 pm I was watching MSNBC (mpeg-4) and it was way out on the mini (QM + NOT QM), but less on the RP, and tonite it seems ok. Weird. I am sure it will go away sooner or later. It does not happen much, so it's not that bad.


----------



## shoek (Jan 23, 2002)

Since when did TiVo start referring to Gen3, Gen4 and stop referring to Series4, Series5, etc?

Can someone define the Gen's?

I have 2 TiVo Roamios and 5 Mini's from 2013 (TCDA92000).
I guess my Mini's are v1? 
My Roamios are Gen3?

Thx,
-Steve


----------



## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

shoek said:


> Since when did TiVo start referring to Gen3, Gen4 and stop referring to Series4, Series5, etc?
> Can someone define the Gen's?


Gen3 and Gen4 refers to the user interface. Gen4 is Hydra. Gen3 is the older HD UI.

Series refers to the hardware.


----------

