# What are Tivo's Plan for Premiere?



## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

Now that the Premiere is coming out in a few weeks what will be next? Does anyone know if Tivo is going to come out with a box similar to the moxi mate? Are there any new features in the works, now that Tivo has a faster dual core processor?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Knowing the history of TiVo, it's almost certain that they won't be doing any kind of real hardware refresh for at least a couple of years.

All innovation will be software based in all likelihood.

They have hinted that the hardware is capable of streaming, so hopefully we will see that later this year along with some sort of app store.

For example, there's no reason, now that the TiVo is Flash based that you couldn't have a large number of very useable apps, such as an application from Sling that would let you catch a Sling feed on your TiVo.

TiVo is marketing the box as the "everything" box, now they just have to deliver the software that makes this a reality.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

Hmm so it doesn't look like we will get a satellite box option (ala moxi mate). I'm debating canceling my premiere pre order and getting a 3 tuner moxi, with the mate. This way I can save more money, by getting rid of the FIOS DVR and HD box.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

ciucca said:


> Hmm so it doesn't look like we will get a satellite box option (ala moxi mate). I'm debating canceling my premiere pre order and getting a 3 tuner moxi, with the mate. This way I can save more money, by getting rid of the FIOS DVR and HD box.


I looked hard at the Moxi too, since it would slightly lower my overhead over a three year period of time.

However, I don't believe Moxi is fully baked yet, and my wife is super comfortable with TiVo navigation.

It's not worth saving a couple of hundred dollars over a three year period of time going with Moxi if it ruins the WAF.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

I really like the look of the moxi, but the two biggest killers for me are 1) no to go (although the satellite streaming somewhat mitigates this) and 2) no OTA.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

jbernardis said:


> I really like the look of the moxi, but the two biggest killers for me are 1) no to go (although the satellite streaming somewhat mitigates this) and 2) no OTA.


Yep -- IMO lack of OTA is a major weakness of Moxi. I currently use full OTA + Netflix streaming + Media Server for all of my content and don't miss cable one bit...or the perpetual price increases.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I have no interest in OTA as I get all my stuff via cablecard and internet. I think TiVo has a better user interface and with the new Java framework can potentially offer more services faster than Moxi can, but time will tell on that one.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

the OTA is no big deal for me, I only use the FIOS /cable feed. One thing I am concerned about, is that you need the PC running to get netflixs on the TV, plus I do not think there is a VOD option, like amazon and blockbuster. I don't have the wife issue , she has her own TivoHD and already said she refuses to upgrade. The premiere is going in my other TV room, and I would like to have the TV upstairs in the bed room be able to watch recorded shows without having a whirring hard drive in my bedroom. This is why I am still thinking about the moxi and the mate. As someone said in this thread Moxi is an unknown for me, I may not like the interface, and/or the mate may not be what I expected. Oh well decision, decisions.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

I think TiVo is hoping that the FCC will do away with the coax connection and make the gateways outlined in the national broadband plan a reality. It would use the TiVo's ethernet jack and get basically unlimited "tuners" (or as much as the gateway will allow) and access to other stuff like ondemand libraries.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

The Moxi has a good interface if you read the instruction manual before. Furthermore, it has an AD-free interface.

Tivo has ads baked in.

My wife figured out how to use the Moxi in a couple of hours.

If you need a multi-room solution, then Moxi is your best bet since it is not subject to the CC1 flag that some Tivo users still continue to suffer thorough.

As a matter of fact, there has been plenty of Tivo transplants to the Moxi. For less Tivo user skewed reponse. There is a thread here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095015


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

Looks like HDNation has reviewed the Moxi this week. Downloading the episode as I type. I know that last week they said they were very disappointed with the Tivo Premiere, so I wonder what they will say about Moxi. I just wish Moxi had something like Pytivo and Tivo2go with decrypt ability then I would never look at a Tivo and it's mf'n ads again.

As for the future of Premiere:
I see tons of useless chumby type applets in Tivo's future. Stocks, Weather, News, crappy games and of course, ADs. Anything really useful, like callerid, TV sleep timer/alarms, ir blaster, skype calling, video conferencing, etc.. will require new add on hardware and thus will never happen. It will also have Netflix/Amazon/any way to sell u crap, added on as well and embedded everywhere it can be. So if you like watching stock tickers, need to know the weather 24-7, and are constantly buying crap off TV.. your in luck, the Premiere was designed for you.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

I realistically don't see new hardware from TiVo, beyond a few acessories that have been announced. 

Unrealistically, a current generation HD-TiVo for those that need to use box, such as Canadians or those with IPTV or satellite.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

bschuler2007 said:


> Looks like HDNation has reviewed the Moxi this week. Downloading the episode as I type. I know that last week they said they were very disappointed with the Tivo Premiere, so I wonder what they will say about Moxi. I just wish Moxi had something like Pytivo and Tivo2go with decrypt ability then I would never look at a Tivo and it's mf'n ads again.
> 
> As for the future of Premiere:
> I see tons of useless chumby type applets in Tivo's future. Stocks, Weather, News, crappy games and of course, ADs. Anything really useful, like callerid, TV sleep timer/alarms, ir blaster, skype calling, video conferencing, etc.. will require new add on hardware and thus will never happen. It will also have Netflix/Amazon/any way to sell u crap, added on as well and embedded everywhere it can be. So if you like watching stock tickers, need to know the weather 24-7, and are constantly buying crap off TV.. your in luck, the Premiere was designed for you.







Moxi described as solid and good.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bschuler2007 said:


> Looks like HDNation has reviewed the Moxi this week. Downloading the episode as I type. I know that last week they said they were very disappointed with the Tivo Premiere, so I wonder what they will say about Moxi.


They weren't exactly jumping with joy for the Moxi - they liked the third tuner, and the Moxi mate (except they found it to be a bit slow), and the online setup. They didn't really say much of substance beyond that.

What I find funny is that the things they kept slamming the TiVo for (no tru2way, no wifi, not enough storage) are exactly the SAME issues that the Moxi has, but yet they didn't say a word about that.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

fatlard said:


> Moxi described as solid and good.


Review starts at around 18:00, for those interested.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

Good review. Now I'm more confused. 

The one thing it did not touch on was, how is it surfing channels on the moxi mate. I guess I will go over to the AVS forum and check to see what they say there.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Per the video, it encodes and decodes the stream. 

So channel surfing on the Moxi mate requires you to surf the channel listing and then select the program you want to watch.... 

Once the channel is selected, it will encode, and then stream and then decode the signal for you.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

tivo's plans in 2 words:

*world domination *


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

fatlard- Do you work for Moxi?


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> fatlard- Do you work for Moxi?


You have a point. On all these boards you never know if someone is a company plant, either from Tivo or Moxi. Even if they aren't you never know if they have a monetary interest in the product they are shilling.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

I hate to say it. I have been convinced by the moxi people over at AVS forum to jump ship. I can only hope that when Tivo goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to my lifetime tivoHD.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ciucca said:


> I hate to say it. I have been convinced by the moxi people over at AVS forum to jump ship. I can only hope that when Tivo goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to my lifetime tivoHD.


Don't do it! Don't join the Dark Side!!! 

By the way, what convinced you to pick Moxi over TiVo? Was it the streaming to the Moxi Mate?

Since I have only 1 TV and use OTA, I have been unable to find any advantage of Moxi, but the streaming thing looks like it would be something a lot of people might want.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

fatlard said:


> The Moxi has a good interface if you read the instruction manual before. Furthermore, it has an AD-free interface.


So far...


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

ciucca said:


> I hate to say it. I have been convinced by the moxi people over at AVS forum to jump ship. I can only hope that when Tivo goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to my lifetime tivoHD.


You can only hope that when Moxi goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to your Moxi. No company is forever, and without Moxi subs - why would any other company be motivated to provide any services to Moxi users when that fate occurs? (all companies end someday, I am sure Moxi will be around anywhere from 1 to 10 years)


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

jrtroo said:


> fatlard- Do you work for Moxi?


I asked him that before and he said no, but it does seem odd that he would spend so much time in a Tivo forum ranting about Moxi


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

daveak said:


> You can only hope that when Moxi goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to your Moxi. No company is forever, and without Moxi subs - why would any other company be motivated to provide any services to Moxi users when that fate occurs? (all companies end someday, I am sure Moxi will be around anywhere from 1 to 10 years)


Moxi is now owned by Arris, why would they go under?


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## rockislandmike (Sep 20, 2005)

classicsat said:


> I realistically don't see new hardware from TiVo, beyond a few acessories that have been announced. Unrealistically, a current generation HD-TiVo for those that need to use box, such as Canadians or those with IPTV or satellite.


Yep, the downstairs TV is already HD-cabled. Soon as we decide to move the upstairs TV as well (which will probably happen sooner than later, as my wife has been spending a *LOT* of time downstairs in "my" room watching high def), the Tivo will be useless. Love to keep it, we both love Tivo, but if we can't get an HD one for Canada, sionara.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

Raj said:


> Moxi is now owned by Arris, why would they go under?


All companies end or greatly change someday. Some divisions get spun-off, sold, or even just plain shut down if revenue consistently falls below expectations. Moxi is not forever (who knows 1 year, 10 years?) and all I am pointing out that with no sub revenue there is no incentive to provide service once Moxi hits end of life (or the boxes stop being sold). Why provide the service without getting any recurring revenue?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> fatlard- Do you work for Moxi?


No. I do not work for Moxi but they could pay me if they want. I seriously doubt they would, though.



> I asked him that before and he said no, but it does seem odd that he would spend so much time in a Tivo forum ranting about Moxi


Just the same reason some people here have over 5,000 post. It is actually quite fun garnering a response from certain people



daveak said:


> You can only hope that when Moxi goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to your Moxi. No company is forever, and without Moxi subs - why would any other company be motivated to provide any services to Moxi users when that fate occurs? (all companies end someday, I am sure Moxi will be around anywhere from 1 to 10 years)


Isn't Tivo on deathwatch?


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

daveak said:


> Why provide the service without getting any recurring revenue?


Information mining is one that comes to mind. In this day and age information is king. If the subscriber base is reasonable, information collected from the service could easily be sold for a variety of purposes.

And often, companies are acquired solely for the customer base. Not in your best interest to piss 'em off if you plan to market to them in the future.

Bottom line is I don't think this is a valid concern for users of any DVR.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Don't do it! Don't join the Dark Side!!!
> 
> By the way, what convinced you to pick Moxi over TiVo? Was it the streaming to the Moxi Mate?
> 
> Since I have only 1 TV and use OTA, I have been unable to find any advantage of Moxi, but the streaming thing looks like it would be something a lot of people might want.


Yes it was the streaming to the mate. This allows me to get rid of another $5.99 cable converter box, and I eventually will probably get another one for the kitchen.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

daveak said:


> You can only hope that when Moxi goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to your Moxi. No company is forever, and without Moxi subs - why would any other company be motivated to provide any services to Moxi users when that fate occurs? (all companies end someday, I am sure Moxi will be around anywhere from 1 to 10 years)


The way things are going perhaps Tivo will be bought by the Moxi people


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

ciucca said:


> The way things are going perhaps Tivo will be bought by the Moxi people


I kind of doubt that. While Moxi has their backers they have yet to sell even 5% of the install base that TiVo has.

TiVo really just needs some new leadership and some new partnerships and a realization that the Cable and Sat companies are not their friends, they are the enemy.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

MickeS said:


> They weren't exactly jumping with joy for the Moxi - they liked the third tuner, and the Moxi mate (except they found it to be a bit slow), and the online setup. They didn't really say much of substance beyond that.
> 
> What I find funny is that the things they kept slamming the TiVo for (no tru2way, no wifi, not enough storage) are exactly the SAME issues that the Moxi has, but yet they didn't say a word about that.


Yeah I found that funny also. I need to go back and rewatch the TiVo review from last week now that I have seen the Moxi Review.

They didn't address you lose a tuner with some SDV adapters on Moxi. They didn't address you can't transfer content off the Moxi. They only touch on they didn't find a DIY option to upgrade the drive which last I read still isn't possible.

It didn't seem like a true in depth review or necessarily a strong glowing endorsement. I don't usually watch their show as much as I used to so I don't know if this is as deep as they will go or if they will revisit it after longer use. My mom liked her FiOS DVR the first week she had hers also. It was only after a couple weeks of use she started to notice the things she disliked.


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## joy_division (Nov 22, 2007)

jbernardis said:


> I really like the look of the moxi, but the two biggest killers for me are 1) no to go (although the satellite streaming somewhat mitigates this) and 2) no OTA.


Don't forget that it doesn't have wireless network connectivity. That is what stopped me from getting one.


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## SteveHC1 (Dec 12, 2008)

fatlard said:


> Isn't Tivo on deathwatch?


- No. For the record, of course :-|


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## SteveHC1 (Dec 12, 2008)

jmpage2 said:


> TiVo really just needs... a realization that the Cable and Sat companies are not their friends, they are the enemy.


- And maybe also come to realize that if they're going to market their boxes as an "everything" box that those boxes need applets that allow the user to access video websites other than just Amazon, Netflix, Jaman & YouTube?

TiVo will *never* be a commercially viable vehicle for consumer data delivery, and in order to succeed at its core function of recorded video delivery it must expand its Internet video content sources.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

innocentfreak said:


> They didn't address you lose a tuner with some SDV adapters on Moxi. They didn't address you can't transfer content off the Moxi. They only touch on they didn't find a DIY option to upgrade the drive which last I read still isn't possible.


I thought Moxi supported external drives in a way that Tivos don't -- i.e. you can easily/readily copy things to an external drive and switch between drives. (i.e. 1.5 TB "floppies".. heh)

Is that wrong?

Sure, it's not expanding the internal drive, but IMHO, that's good.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

mattack said:


> I thought Moxi supported external drives in a way that Tivos don't -- i.e. you can easily/readily copy things to an external drive and switch between drives. (i.e. 1.5 TB "floppies".. heh)
> 
> Is that wrong?
> 
> Sure, it's not expanding the internal drive, but IMHO, that's good.


In fact, Moxi supports any external eSata drive (not just the crummy MyDVR Expander drives marketed by W/D that TiVo supports), and up to 6 terabytes.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Your forgeting that TiVo holds all the patents. Watch out MOXI.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mattack said:


> I thought Moxi supported external drives in a way that Tivos don't -- i.e. you can easily/readily copy things to an external drive and switch between drives. (i.e. 1.5 TB "floppies".. heh)
> 
> Is that wrong?
> 
> Sure, it's not expanding the internal drive, but IMHO, that's good.


I have just had too many external drives fail on me to really trust them to anything I want to keep. Also the cost of getting another external versus adding another drive to my server also wouldn't make it a worthwhile investment. I can get 1.5TB internal drives for around $90 versus $120+ for the same external drive. Plus I don't have to deal with reconnecting multiple external drives.

Does the Moxi keep track of which external drive has which shows so I can tell on Moxi versus hooking each one up until I find the show I want?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

bschuler2007 said:


> I know that last week [HDNation] said they were very disappointed with the Tivo Premiere


Yeah, but they made a bunch of errors in talking about it. I really should email them...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

If you watch the new one they read a letter from Spike, maybe from MFSlive, who addressed the RSS comments. He also addressed the Fios and Uverse and a couple other things IIRC.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Raj said:


> Moxi is now owned by Arris, why would they go under?


I'm pretty sure that I heard the same comment the first couple of times that ReplayTV was sold. Moxi will be fine as long as Arris doesn't get tired of losing money on them.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

fatlard said:


> Just the same reason some people here have over 5,000 post. It is actually quite fun garnering a response from certain people
> 
> Isn't Tivo on deathwatch?


I'm pretty sure that you just defined "troll".


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

I think the Moxi handles digital cable only, no analog cable. While more and more cable cos. are migrating all analog to digital, lack of analog for now could be a deal breaker for some right now.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

mattack said:


> I thought Moxi supported external drives in a way that Tivos don't -- i.e. you can easily/readily copy things to an external drive and switch between drives. (i.e. 1.5 TB "floppies".. heh)
> 
> Is that wrong?
> 
> Sure, it's not expanding the internal drive, but IMHO, that's good.


I think the Tivo stripes data across internal and external drives. So if the external drive fails, you loose recordings on both internal and external.

With the Moxi, they do not stripe data across the drives. Full programs either reside on the internal drive or external drive. If you want to disconnect the eSATA drive, you can select disconnect from the menu and safely remove the drive. When you reconnect, it will see your recordings.

You are also correct, the side benefit is if you run out of space on the 1.5TB external drive you can treat them as floppy and archive the recordings.

But you can not tell Moxi where to put your recordings when it is recording.

Another side benefit with Moxi is that you can pretty much get any SATA drive and connect it using SATA to eSATA. It does not have to be DVR Certified


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

fatlard said:


> I think the Tivo stripes data across internal and external drives. So if the external drive fails, you loose recordings on both internal and external.
> 
> With the Moxi, they do not stripe data across the drives. ...


another case of tivo playing nice with cablelabs but no one else is. Maybe the poster above that tivo should realize cable is the enemy is on to something....


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ufo4sale said:


> Your forgeting that TiVo holds all the patents. Watch out MOXI.


True long term but i think currently tivo doesn't see them as significant competition. If anything tivo MIGHT even see them as helping get out the word that third party dvr's are alive, well, and feature rich competitors to the cable company crud


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

I tried a moxi dvr. I just couldnt get used to it.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> another case of tivo playing nice with cablelabs but no one else is. Maybe the poster above that tivo should realize cable is the enemy is on to something....


Actually in this case Moxi may be honoring the cablelabs wishes here, but just going about it differently. It sounds like unlike with the TiVo which creates a pool out of two drives, the Moxi keeps the drives separate. As a result you can choose to save it to A or B but if the copy once flag is on you couldn't move it from A to B.

Now if there is something from cable labs about how external drives have to be handled that may apply, but it doesn't sound like they are violating the copy once flag.

I have also read which I don't know to be true that copy once content can actually be copied again if the device makes the first copy unusable. This could also be how Moxi is doing it if somehow Moxi is moving the content versus copying.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> another case of tivo playing nice with cablelabs but no one else is. Maybe the poster above that tivo should realize cable is the enemy is on to something....


Umm, that has nothing to do with CableLabs. Tivos supported 2 drives, and 'married' the drives, long before Cable Cards existed.

The current external drives are essentially exactly the same technology as the older two internal drive situation... (in terms of the filesystem in this discussion.. in other ways they're different of course.)


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

mamosley said:


> I tried a moxi dvr. I just couldnt get used to it.


Was it the cable provided one or the retail one? Was it a recent one?

The reason I ask is the new retail ones has gone through several software updates that may have helped.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ciucca said:


> I hate to say it. I have been convinced by the moxi people over at AVS forum to jump ship. I can only hope that when Tivo goes under, someone will continue to provide guide data to my lifetime tivoHD.


Since TiVo requires people to pay monthly then someone will always pick up that great cash stream for what is basically nearly free guide data


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ciucca said:


> The way things are going perhaps Tivo will be bought by the Moxi people


Great - then Moxi can put the 3 tuner chip in the TiVo and sell a lot more of them


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

nrc said:


> I'm pretty sure that I heard the same comment the first couple of times that ReplayTV was sold. Moxi will be fine as long as Arris doesn't get tired of losing money on them.


and like Replay TV - Moxi will be going strong years from now and have 3 tuners and streaming to Moxi mates


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

fatlard said:


> Was it the cable provided one or the retail one? Was it a recent one?
> 
> The reason I ask is the new retail ones has gone through several software updates that may have helped.


It was the retail one. I tried it last month. I really wanted to like it. No way to easily switch tuners with out two shows being recorded and going into the dvr list to switch between tuners. Some buttons did different things depending where you were at in the menu. Those were my major beefs with it. Other than those issues I would have been perfectly happy with it.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Actually in this case Moxi may be honoring the cablelabs wishes here, but just going about it differently. It sounds like unlike with the TiVo which creates a pool out of two drives, the Moxi keeps the drives separate. As a result you can choose to save it to A or B but if the copy once flag is on you couldn't move it from A to B.
> 
> Now if there is something from cable labs about how external drives have to be handled that may apply, but it doesn't sound like they are violating the copy once flag.
> 
> I have also read which I don't know to be true that copy once content can actually be copied again if the device makes the first copy unusable. This could also be how Moxi is doing it if somehow Moxi is moving the content versus copying.


my understanding is that early on tivobeing the first dvr maker to allow an extrenal drive (eg the only one to make a cablelabs approved dvr with possible exterenal drive until moxi did too) had to "prove" to cablelabs that an external drive was secure. One of the things that tivo did to get the stupid approval was to strip/mix the data accross the 2 drives so it was worthless unplugged.

I can't find it now but I seem to recall one of the cablelabs documents said something like "a secure method must be employed and we'll take out time deciding if your method is secure. One possible method might involve stripping but that's not necessarily the only way we would approve things".

Sure they could have went a different route- but that would have taken another year to get approved at the time I'm sure.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mattack said:


> Umm, that has nothing to do with CableLabs. Tivos supported 2 drives, and 'married' the drives, long before Cable Cards existed.
> 
> The current external drives are essentially exactly the same technology as the older two internal drive situation... (in terms of the filesystem in this discussion.. in other ways they're different of course.)


it's been a while but i thought when you divorce drives you dont losse every last recording- some might be mixed accross drives but some might be on one drive of the other- am i remembering wrong?

When you unplug an external drive- you seem to trash EVERYTHING. So I think tivo fiddled some to ensure you can't ever remove the external drive and have it usable.

I sure could be wrong but that's my memory.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> it's been a while but i thought when you divorce drives you dont losse every last recording- some might be mixed accross drives but some might be on one drive of the other- am i remembering wrong?
> 
> When you unplug an external drive- you seem to trash EVERYTHING. So I think tivo fiddled some to ensure you can't ever remove the external drive and have it usable.


I don't think so. I've unplugged an external drive and had 3 short shows out of 550 shows remain on the internal drive (all recorded after adding the external drive). So it sounds the same.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> I don't think so. I've unplugged an external drive and had 3 short shows out of 550 shows remain on the internal drive (all recorded after adding the external drive). So it sounds the same.


ahh- could be- the 3 times I have had to ditch an external drive - it was clear as day- every last thing recorded after i added the external drive was added was gone.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> ahh- could be- the 3 times I have had to ditch an external drive - it was clear as day- every last thing recorded after i added the external drive was added was gone.


That would drive me bananas. If you reconnected the same drive would your recordings come back?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Since TiVo requires people to pay monthly then someone will always pick up that great cash stream for what is basically nearly free guide data


TiVo does not require people to pay monthly.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

fatlard said:


> That would drive me bananas. If you reconnected the same drive would your recordings come back?


nope you have to start from scratch.

As I said above- my understanding was that tivo did it that way to make cablelabs happy and more prone to approve the exteral drive.

If my memory is accurate (might NOT be). then Probably cablelabs say dish's system (sounds like moxi is the same)- and that the world didn't end and HBO didn't sue anyone. So they had no grounds to stop moxi from doing the same.

similar thing happened with tivo "playing nice" with the NFL. like 100 years ago when the broadcast flag was alive and well- the fcc was sort of in charge of how boxes would respect the flag and approving encryption schemes. Tivo put in to get approved and the NFL had a cow that tivo's method would allow content to get moved to a differnt tivo box LIVE. So tivo relented and made there system so you can't move content till the show is done. (basically the NFL wanted to protect their sunday ticket deal so that someone couldn't set up a VPN with a box in a differnt market and then stream a game from one market to another). Tivo's system got approved by the FCC (now meaningless). Meanwhile sling comes along and completely exists to to just what the NFL didn't want- watching content in a different location. Yet Tivo still doesn't go back and change things so we can move stuff during record. There's probably some contract between the NFL and tivo that precludes it- that tivo signed in exchange for the NFL from withdrawing their complaints to the FCC. But if tivo wasn't always so worried about playing nice they wouldn't be in the postion they are. (they also may have been sued out of existance like replay got- but there's an area they shoudl explore between rolling over and being eveyone's jailhouse "wife" and getting sued out of existance)

PS- but if you are using multiple drives for archiving- we're just fine on tivo with their method. You just use a pc to archive your content over the net (as long as your cable provider isn't crazy with their flags)- and you can actually set up a server with tons of storage and not have to fumble with which drive has what. Plenty do that. For me a single 1TB extrenal drive plus what's in the tivo is more than I need for current and archiving needs. I'm just not that into the archive thing)


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

MichaelK said:


> PS- but if you are using multiple drives for archiving- we're just fine on tivo with their method. You just use a pc to archive your content over the net (as long as your cable provider isn't crazy with their flags)- and you can actually set up a server with tons of storage and not have to fumble with which drive has what. Plenty do that. For me a single 1TB extrenal drive plus what's in the tivo is more than I need for current and archiving needs. I'm just not that into the archive thing)


The NetGear ReadyNAS units can serve content directly to TiVo and there are many options for pulling content from TiVo. You basically have unlimited expansion on a RAID system without having to stick another noisy drive in your entertainment center. You also have much greater ability to organize your content, which is important when you're talking unlimited.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

I have a TivoHD now and tentatively decided to order the Tivo Premiere. After a $38 fatwallet.com savings plus $60 savings through Tivo's upgrade option the Premiere dropped to almost $200. And I figure I should be able to get at least $100 for the TivoHD if I decide to sell it dropping it to a $100 upgrade. Not too bad for their new technology.

However, I did look into Moxi as I did like what I was seeing. But after a few reviews I decided the cost didn't outweigh the headache at the moment. From what I understand there is no consistency with the buttons... Back does one thing on one menu and something completely different on another. Plus the On Demand stuff like Amazon and such is driven by your computer, and not the Moxi box. I don't want to be tethered to my PC to do the stuff Tivo can do out of the box.


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