# To the Directv CSR's That are here!!



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

There are several people that come here and claim to be Customer support for Directv. I am curious about the amount of calls they receive about Tivo Vs r15 and if more people want Tivo or the R. And how people like the R15. I realise that we arent supposed to discuss the R15 here but since my thread is about Both Tivo and R15 I figure it is Ok here.

Basicly I am hoping Tivo is winning Over the R15 and more people want the Tivo! But I was curious how this battle is going On the home front.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

You should also ask this question on the DBSTalk R15 forum.
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> You should also ask this question on the DBSTalk R15 forum.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106


Nah! I got the response I expected NADA. It goes to show ya on an open forum where you are anonomous any one can claim to be anything after all I am really Drew Barrymore


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## SeattleCarl (Nov 11, 2005)

It really would be interesting to see some valid statistics on that, but I doubt that we ever will.

One thing to keep in mind, most users will not search out a discussion forum in order to post "everything is great, I like my equipment". Usually, they go on-line and find places like this site, or dbstalk, or direct tv itself, when they are having problems or looking for help.

As a result, most of the forums on equipment (any equipment, not just Tivo or DVR) tend to either run negative, or are comprised of serious enthusiasts. Either way, they are not representative of the larger population and their experience with whatever the product is.

Carl


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

SeattleCarl said:


> It really would be interesting to see some valid statistics on that, but I doubt that we ever will.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, most users will not search out a discussion forum in order to post "everything is great, I like my equipment". Usually, they go on-line and find places like this site, or dbstalk, or direct tv itself, when they are having problems or looking for help.
> 
> ...


The main reason I posted this was over the years there are alot who come here claiming to work for D* Yada Yada Yada. If they truly work for D* they would know on any given day which device gets more complaints and problems or which device is more requested. They could even divulge this here without any fear of reprisal because they are not really giving out any secret info. (I could be wrong)

The reason i posted this here and not at dbs is this is something all Directivo users would want to know.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> Nah! I got the response I expected NADA. It goes to show ya on an open forum where you are anonomous any one can claim to be anything after all I am really Drew Barrymore


When did you post it over at DBS ? I never saw that thread.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> When did you post it over at DBS ? I never saw that thread.


Thats cause I havnt yet  mabye later


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

Here's my breakdown


Most people that call in and love their R15 (but are upset because they don't work) are new customers.

Most of the new customers love the R15's


If anyone Had a tivo before, most HATE the R15.

However, I've had some Ultimate TV people call that wanted R15 replacements instead of R10 when theirs died, and had to take it to retention to get it.


Both people I've talked to in that case loved Ultimate TV, hated Tivo, liked the DTV dvr



My biggest problem is that the Series Link support and recording STILL doesn't work right for daily shows (tons of calls about oprah not recording every day, angry housewife demographic represented)

I don't think they're that bad when they work.


They work better than they did some time ago, but still have some software upgrades to go before they're good.


Remember, Tivo software was slow before 6.2 as well


(ps, I own all tivos, wouldn't own an R15 if I was paid to do so)


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Is they any chance in hell that DirecTV could make the R15 more like a TiVo (without violating TiVo copyrights of course)? I guess I answered that, didn't I?


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## untouchable (Apr 13, 2005)

I've got both and feel the same way the rest of you do. Yes, the TiVo was slow before the 6.2 and had it's fair share of problems. My girlfriend loves the R15 and hates the TiVo even though we obviously had the D*TiVo before the R15. Had problems with the R15 a few weeks ago where it was rebooting itself and would lock up in the MyVOD. Finally after resetting it about 20 times it came back with banner no programming. Reformatted the hard drive and everything is fine now. I called and got a replacement and was sent a BRAND NEW R10! I was at work when it arrived. When I got home my girlfriend insisted that we box it up and send it back. So since we have 3 TiVo receivers, I agreed to send it back...and no, DirecTV isn't going to spend all that time and money to find out if the R15 is winning over its customers. It costs them more to go back with TiVo than what it does to keep making their model. Everyone in the support centers probably thought the TiVo units were a big piece of ..... when they were the only DVR out, just like we do the R15. Give it time and all the wacky problems will go away...


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

JimSpence said:


> Is they any chance in hell that DirecTV could make the R15 more like a TiVo (without violating TiVo copyrights of course)? I guess I answered that, didn't I?


http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=799955&highlight=
DIRECTV 2GO.


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## morgantown (Mar 29, 2005)

Enrique said:


> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=799955&highlight=
> DIRECTV 2GO.


Considering DTV strangled TiVos functionality -- I'm not to sure that is a "fair" comparison. Is it no longer considered "taboo" to talk about the R15 over here again?

I like the question all the same BBB...


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Just look on forums.directv.com (which are hosted by DirecTV) and you can see for yourself just how many other DirecTV customers hate the R15 in its current condition. I'm surprised DirecTV has sat on the *** and not done anything about it for as long as they have. I know people are saying there is an update around the corner, but my bet is that they don't correct anything significant and in fact they will most likely introduce new bugs.


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> Just look on forums.directv.com (which are hosted by DirecTV) and you can see for yourself just how many other DirecTV customers hate the R15 in its current condition. I'm surprised DirecTV has sat on the *** and not done anything about it for as long as they have. I know people are saying there is an update around the corner, but my bet is that they don't correct anything significant and in fact they will most likely introduce new bugs.


they've released quite a few updates for the R15's already

you don't know what you speak of

however, there still are a few bugs


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

BillyT2002 said:


> Just look on forums.directv.com (which are hosted by DirecTV) and you can see for yourself just how many other DirecTV customers hate the R15 in its current condition. I'm surprised DirecTV has sat on the *** and not done anything about it for as long as they have. I know people are saying there is an update around the corner, but my bet is that they don't correct anything significant and in fact they will most likely introduce new bugs.


They HAVE been improving the unit..
The R15 we have today is significantly improved over what was released in November.

Is it perfect? no
Is it above average? probably not

It does function, as is becomming more reliable.
There is another software release coming soon for the unit.

Forums are BY FAR not a fair comparison to determin "how many problems" you are having from a quantitative point of view.

When was the last time you logged into your Microwave or Dish Washer forum, or even your VCR forums... just to say things where working perfectly fine?

Most people go to these forums because they are having a problem.

EVEN HERE AT TCF.. post people seek out the forum in the first place to solve a problem. A lot of regulars, we are here for other reasons... but new users are usually here because they have a problem.

Forums.directv.com you find people on both sides of this argument. There are people there that have issues with TiVo... there are people that have issues with R15.

R15 is a sore topic here... has been since the day the unit was announced... still is, and probably will be....

Even if they do get to the point where the R15 works perfectly.. the argument will be... well TiVo did it much sooner in it's history... which is fair, but none the less doesn't change how the unit works that day.

if DirecTV WASN'T working on the issues with the R15.. that would be a bad thing.
But they are working on it... and significantly I may add....

Regardless what a CSR might tell you "about hearing about problems" and what might be on a list... The actually R15 team is very much in tuned with what we talk about in these forums and the problems people have been reporting.

Bottom line: The R15 and HR20 are the next generation DVRs for DirecTV... Their software base and design is the foundation for DirecTVs upcomming features and units.... Not the TiVo software..... Unless something RADICALLY CHANGES (As in almost DirecTV purchasing TiVo), that isn't going to change...

Follow the threads and posts at www.dbstalk.com
There are more and more people logging in that are saying how much they prefer the R15.... and a good number of people that like it more then a TiVo...

There is no ONE solution for anyone..
As much as I like the R15s... I still haven't replaced all my TiVos (probably will after the HR20 ... but that is a different story)

But ultimately... my plan is for the Home Media Center, or a fully decked out Vista Media centers with extenders.

There is no ONE solution that is for everyone... never is, never will be....


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I know they've released quite a few updates already - yet there are still some basic issues with the unit that remain unfixed since its release. There are multiple issues still with the R15 missing recordings altogether and also with it not adhering to recording first run episodes only. My neighbor had one for a couple of months until he finally scored an HR10-250 on eBay. My brother in law had one until I gave him my old HDVR2. I've seen what a piece of crap the thing is with my own eyes enough to know that I never want to own one. The fact is that there are still QUITE A FEW bugs and this thing has already been released for a while now - so my faith is just not there that the bugs will ever really be worked out by DirecTV.

It's easy for you to tell me that I know not of what I speak, but the fact is that anyone here only has to navigate to http://forums.directv.com and go to the DVR section to read for themselves just what the average DirecTV customer thinks of the R15 - and it isn't much. 

I'll tell you why I have absolutely no faith in DirecTV's ability to write software. The bottom line is that DirecTV is not a software company. Only a real software company will invest the resources and time into writing good software. DirecTV is not a software company and therefore is not in the business of writing good software. Writing good software isn't always easy and my best bet is that DirecTV is using the waterfall method of writing software. My guess is also that the DirecTV software developers are probably not even aware of what software development model they are using. The waterfall method means that they write software which consists of some agreed upon features, then release it with minimal testing and then go on to attempt to fix the bugs as they are encountered. Most non-software companies use the waterfall method to write software as there is a minimal resource investment using this method.

A better approach would be for DirecTV to adopt a more modern software development methodology such as the agile method. In agile software development there are defined iterations weekly, bi-weekly or etc. Developers will colloborate with management in order to iron out a specification for new software. Then, developers will move on to write the specified software in such a way as to minimalize each step. Each iteration will encompass certain tasks in order to get to the end product. At the end of each iteration a review is done between the developers and/or management to see if the goals were met for that iteration. This is agile development. Agile development works best when combined with a test-driven software methodology. This is where the developer will write tests for the software before writing any of the source code for the software itself. The tests written are of two types. First the developer will write unit tests to test each method which he/she intends to write in order to complete a specification. Once the unit tests are completed, then the software developer can move on to write the software itself and for each method written there will be a test which that method must pass when finished. These unit tests are generally only useful to the developer, but they help to ensure better written software on the developer's part. Code reviews between developer peers are also an important part of writing good software and should be used in the process as well.

When each screen of the application is written, the developer will also write a user-interface test to test the functionality of the user interface in relation the the new screen implemented as well. These are called UI tests. The UI tests are also useful to the QA people in order to help them perform their own testing of the application. If a good third-party open-ended UI testing language is employed, then the QA group can write these tests for the developer in order to help the developer to reproduce a problem which they see is occuring as well.

Using agile and test-driven software methodology will help a software development company to produce better software. However, I don't see a non-software development company like DirecTV would be willing to invest the extra resources to do this and get things done right.

That's why it's my opinon that DirecTV may issue another software update and many more after that and still not really fix some of the real problems. And by using the waterfall method, they risk creating new bugs in the software every time it chages, if they release it without thourough testing first. I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm TIVO loyal until something better really comes along and the R15 isn't it.

If you don't believe me - again - navigate to http://forums.directv.com in your favorite browser - go to the DVR section and read the many threads of people complaining about the R15 yourself.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Earl - with all due respect (and I do respect your opinion(s)) I disagree with you regarding Internet forums in general as being an unfair method to quantify and compare consumer electronics producs for the average home consumer. Forums like this one are empowering to the average user. Sure more people will use these forums to complain about a product and not use them to praise a product, but when enough people are complaining about a product, then that is a good heads up to the average user that maybe they will be best served by avoiding said product altogether, if they can. Also, if DirecTV actually reads these forums (and hopefully they are at least reading http://forums.directv.com), then if they see enough people complaining about something, there is always hope that the right person within DirecTV will get wind of it and set things in motion to turn the situation around. Sure you can easily say that DirecTVs current course of action is to support the NDS DVR (R15) platform as the next-generation platform of choice. You can also say that nothing will change this short of DirecTV purchasing TIVO and maybe you're right. However, you might also be wrong. Stranger things have happened and if enough people resist and complain about DirecTV's current course of action, maybe they will renege and change course. No one (except Rupert Murdoch) can ultimately say what they will do or won't do. If enough of us leave over their current course, then they will definitely re-evaluate how they are conducting business there and perhaps also make concessions to keep some of us or bring us back into the fold.

Right now, if the TIVO series 3 is released this year, my cable company is looking better and better. Sure I realize that they don't offer the NFL Sunday Ticket, but I'm not a sports fan, anyway.


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## SeattleCarl (Nov 11, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> ...but when enough people are complaining about a product, then that is a good heads up to the average user that maybe they will be best served by avoiding said product altogether, if they can.


My personal experience has been the opposite of that in a couple of cases. Most notably, when I was contemplating the purchase of a Treo 650 I did a lot of on-line searching and the overwhelming commentary almost everyplace was negative. After doing further research, and considering my expected usage, I went ahead and got one. I absolutely love it, it has never given me one moments grief.

Ditto to some extent the R15. In this case, I bought very early on (on first release last November), and have for the most part been very satisfied with the unit. I do agree there are still some problems, and I am anxiously looking forward to the next software release, but I still like the R15 personally, and I prefer it to my R10 (yes, I do have both).

Carl


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

If you see most of the posts in the DVR forum...... I am the one over there answering a lot of them (be it good or bad) (And Carl and LitzDog)

DirecTV "DOES" monitor those forums, this one, and DBSTalk

They know what we are reporting and complaining about.
Only time will tell if they fix it or not....


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## Proc (Jan 21, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> If you see most of the posts in the DVR forum...... I am the one over there answering a lot of them (be it good or bad) (And Carl and LitzDog)
> 
> DirecTV "DOES" monitor those forums, this one, and DBSTalk
> 
> ...


Yeah, they monitor the forums at http://forums.directv.com. And, they are quick to delete posts. I've had several posts over there that I considered mild and were to help out others that have been removed. I've never had a post removed on any other board.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I've had them delete posts on me at http://forums.directv.com, too. They monitor threads like the gestapo would.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

They do monitor it ... a LOT...

Not sure why... I have had some of my posts deleted too.

Hence why I go there maybe every other day or so.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

Lets see..... a fair comparison of the R-15 vs the DirecTiVo in one of the most hard core pro TiVo boards I have ever been on. Hmmmmmmmmm let me think, I wonder which will be favored here ???????????????????????????????????????????


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Then explain to me Rkkeller why there are very few R15 aplogists besides Earlm litzdog and a select FEW others who are speaking positively regarding the R15 on http://forums.directv.com and even http:www.dbstalk.com for that matter. There are more people complaining in both of those places from the threads which I've read, than there are people giving praise to the R15.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

"Apologists".... or just trying to keep "reality" in check, and try not to go over the deepend.
I try (at least for the last 6 months or so) not to speak "positive" or "negative" with regards to any of the products..

You actually won't see me "apologizing" the R15 or Bashing the TiVo.. that is not how I want to do things, as it serves no pupose. I state the facts and try to help with they way things are "today"

Dig around the DBSTalk arena a little more... you will find that there are a fair number of people who actually prefer the R15 over the DTivo.... and a lot more that are contuing with the R15 even with all of it's quirks.

forums.directv.com is by far one of the lease volume forums... and most definently would be heavily slanted on the side of "i am posting because I have a problem"... 

That particular site is by far more of a technical support forum, then dbstalk and tcf are... the later two are definently more of a discussion/communication/help forums then forums.directv.com

But none the less...
everyone has a choice....

Regardless... it doesn't change the facts that the R15 has issues, the DTiVo's "do" have issues too (They are not perfect), the R15 does somethings better, the DTiVo does something better.... then there are the few that flat out love the UTV and think it was the best ever....


PS: Most of my threads over at forums.directv.com have links sending the users back to either dbstalk or tcf depending on what product they are using, as the forum software over there is just way to "annoying", and the user base is very small.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I think for me Earl the bottom line is reliability. The DVR has to be 99.9999999% reliable or I'm not going to like it. I'm talking about three kinds of reliability.

1. It must reliably record what I instruct it too and not miss a recording if at all possible.

The two people I know who have owned an R15 have had problems with their DVR missing recordings. (Neither of them owns an R15 anymore.)

My HR10-250 has never missed a recording of it's own accord. Sure the network schedules might get mixed up sometimes. George W might decide to address the nation impromptu or longer than anticipated. The football game might go into overtime thus pre-empting my favorite weekly programming or what not. I do not blame the DVR for those types of problems as the problem in that case is really with the networks or the guide data and even the R15 could experience the same sort of problem. Short of a network or guide data problem, though my HR10-250 is rock solid at recording everything I tell it to.

2. It must reliably record "only first run episodes" when I instruct it to.

The R15 was released in November and still does not do this correctly from what I understand.

The HR10-250 on the other hand has never mistakenly recorded a repeat episode when I've instructed it not to.

3. It must reliably forward over commercial advertising when I hit the FF button.

The R15 can do this with no jump back. I tried to get used to this on my friend's R15 and it just didn't seem right. (Probably because I'm so used to the way TIVO does it with the jump back.)

The HR10-250 does this with a jump back which I'm used to.

That's all I'm really looking for. Sure I have one problem with the HR10-250 in that it is really starts to slow down with a lot of programmed season passes and especially if your manipulating those season passes. However, I have cleared and make sure not to used any thumb data and the speeds are much more reasonable. I'm overall very happy with the HR10-250 just as I'm sure I will be eventually with a TIVO series 3.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> Regardless... it doesn't change the facts that the R15 has issues, the DTiVo's "do" have issues too (They are not perfect), the R15 does somethings better, the DTiVo does something better.... then there are the few that flat out love the UTV and think it was the best ever.....


I think this may be the most improtanat note of this discousion it is the DTivo that people may or may not like. IMO this is because D* chokes down the tivo so much. I have SA and R10 and find myself using my SA for a lot more for what i can do with it. I know this is just me but it is my .02


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## watersrob100 (Jun 20, 2006)

is ayone aware of this new breed of dvr's expected to roll out in july?


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Have you been living on Mars?


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## MajorTomSawyer (Apr 2, 2006)

With the calls I take, it is about 50-50 in all truth.

This is true:



DTVPro said:


> Most of the new customers love the R15's
> 
> If anyone Had a tivo before, most HATE the R15.


Let's not forget this is the first version of the new unit either. The first run of tivos and the early software was buggy as hell as well.



DTVPro said:


> Remember, Tivo software was slow before 6.2 as well


I own a HR10-250 and a R15-300. I love both, and my r-15 has only had a problem once. I did too many "find by" searches and it ran slow. After resetting though the menus, I have not had a problem since, even with the series link function.


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## ad301 (Dec 21, 2001)

Unless they improve the Find function on the r15 and the upcoming HD hr20, they'll never be any more than another generic dvr, roughly equivalent to any other house-brand dvr out there.

WishLists are what sets tivo boxes apart. For those who use WLs to any extent, or rely on them to handle certain tasks (such as sports teams "season passes"), the generic boxes just don't cut it. None of them have a search function anything like WLs.

The r15, *IF* they fix all of it's numerous bugs, could be a nice, simple, run-of-the-mill, plain-jane, generic dvr, very suitable for the many D* customers who've never had a dvr before.


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## kenmac999 (Dec 12, 2004)

I heard on the grapevine that the main reason D* came out with their own dvr is to add interactive capability without having to share the interactive technology with tivo. as far as trends the R15 has the same failure rate as the dtv tivos did during their 1st year (yes the R15 isn't even a year old).

Sources say that D*'s highly anticipated new hd-dvr will be based on the R15 software, but D* is still providing software updates for the current hd-dvr to correct some stability problems.

If I hear any more will gladly provide it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

JimSpence said:


> Is they any chance in hell that DirecTV could make the R15 more like a TiVo (without violating TiVo copyrights of course)? I guess I answered that, didn't I?


Hmm, I wonder if TiVo could port their software to run on the R15..? That would make it more like a TiVo...


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

MajorTomSawyer said:


> Let's not forget this is the first version of the new unit either. The first run of tivos and the early software was buggy as hell as well.


I was one of the very early adopters of the DirecTiVo and the software has never been buggy. The early releases only supported a single tuner but the machine was solid and the core functionality (whish lists and season passes) was there and stable.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

kenmac999 said:


> as far as trends the R15 has the same failure rate as the dtv tivos did during their 1st year (yes the R15 isn't even a year old).


I will completely disagree with that statement. The DirecTiVo was very solid from the start. The wishlists and season passes have always worked fine. Even in the early days my machine would stay up over 100 days without a problem.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

rminsk said:


> I was one of the very early adopters of the DirecTiVo and the software has never been buggy. The early releases only supported a single tuner but the machine was solid and the core functionality (whish lists and season passes) was there and stable.


Me too I had the first directivo out there and it was perfect out of the box as well as the S/a tivo i got in 99. I don't know where all these buggy tivos went but not too me. I have loved every tivo i have owned. In fact the only real problem i ever had was with the S/A missing the channels because of the ir blaster which was corrected with the serial cable.


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## MajorTomSawyer (Apr 2, 2006)

I will admit the TiVo DVRs were less buggy then the R-15. The advantage was the stand-alones pre-dated the built in dvr+sat units.

Some of them were buggy (more then often the problem lies between the remote and the chair - 85% of all calls ), but they were not perfect.

Don't misunderstand, I am not bashing TiVo. Even the 'alpha' TiVo DVRs were solid units. 

I just expect over time the r-15 will be reguarded as a good dvr, rather then a genric model that is better then nothing else.

Of course, try to take my hr10-250 from me. I'll stab you with a fork.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

The Sky+ (XTV) NDS units predated the R-15. The Sky+ was launched in October 2001. You would think 4.5 years they would be a bit more stable.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> Me too I had the first directivo out there and it was perfect out of the box as well as the S/a tivo i got in 99. I don't know where all these buggy tivos went but not too me. I have loved every tivo i have owned. In fact the only real problem i ever had was with the S/A missing the channels because of the ir blaster which was corrected with the serial cable.


Another "me too". I've got a DSR6000 bought in 2000 that is still working just fine. The initial 2.0 software that it came with had just one issue that I can recall (the optical audio channel swap). It has never failed me in all these years.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

rminsk said:


> The Sky+ (XTV) NDS units predated the R-15. The Sky+ was launched in October 2001. You would think 4.5 years they would be a bit more stable.


I'm not surprised because I'll bet my house and everything else I own that DirecTV/NDS develops their software using the waterfall software development methodology which I've already described ad nauseum within this very thread.

The main problem using the waterfall method is that every release of new software will potentially contain new bugs. So, the software just gets buggier and buggier over time in most cases.

The software on the R15 will only get better, if DirecTV/NDS pus an emphasis on good software developers - hires experienced developers and QA people who actually have a clue about how to develop and test good software and pays them what they are worth - and lastly adopt both the agile and test-driven software develpment methodologies.

This will never happen because DirecTV/NDS is not in business to develop good software. They are in business to distribute entertainment media. They will never invest enough resources into their own DVR to really get it done properly.

That's just the way it is. The R-15 may become "good enough" to suit the average customer at some point, but it will always be a POS to me. Maybe someday I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it. Maybe Jesus will actually return in the clouds soon, too - I'm just not banking on anything like that right now. 

BTW: This reminds me. I ate a cookie from the Hallelujah Bakery today which i bought at a local convenience store. Does that count as communion?


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

BillyT2002 said:


> Then explain to me


Simple, any pro R-15 talk is shouted down by the TiVo zealots in every forum you go and you get tired of it so you just stop posting and all that are left are negative comments. If you check the forums you will see that I too have good and bad to say about the R-15. I have two DirecTiVos and one R-15.

Its just anytime you say anything good, your bashed you down. If you list a couple R-15 features you think are nice, a TiVo shrill will bring up lack of dual buffers or some other thing a DirecTivo has that the R-15 doesnt and your argueing about that. Just stupid if you ask me to have to argue about ways to simply watch TV.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

New features are great and all when they work, but I'd rather see bugs being fixed in software than new features being added any day.

Are there really that many TIVO zealots who frequent http://www.dbstalk.com and http://forums.directv.com? I read through those forums somewhat regularly and have not noticed a lot of TIVO zealots, but I have noticed a lot of complaining about the R15.

I am by no means a TIVO zealot. I like their software and consider it to be well written as I'm a software developer myself and I appreciate both well written software and minimalist UIs in software.

TIVO is for the most part a software development company and therefore I'm not surprised that they employ the resources to write software correctly.

I wish that DirecTV/NDS would apply those same resources as I'll bet they could really correct the probelms if they did. However, I don't believe for a second that they will as they do not make their profit from writing good software.

For some of us, there is no simply watching television anymore. I could not watch television at this point without a good DVR. I have already outlined before what my requirements are in a DVR many time so I won't elaborate specifically except here is a quick list.

+ must run reliably, not reboot sporadically, etc.

+ must record all requested programming with 99.9999999% reliablilty (unless the guide data becomes erroneous or the president speaks too long or some extraneous reason why it cannot).

+ must record "first run episodes" (no repeats) with 99.9999999% reliability.

+ must reliably forward fast over commercial advertising.

+ must support wishlists - meaning a searching mechanism to easily search for upcoming programming based on genre, actor, director, etc.

+ should support the latest technologies for compression, etc (MPEG-4, Ka-band, high-definition, ...)

+ should support connections reliably (hdmi/dvi, component, s-video, composite, etc)

+ must have two tuners

+ must have two separate live TV buffers (though "live TV" is something which I almost never watch anymore, except for News, it is still nice to be able to switch from MSNBC to Fox News while watching live).

That's really about it. Like I said, if the R15 really does get better (which I'm definitely more pessimistic on than optimistic precisely because I do nt see DirecTV/NDS (or DISH Netowrk for that matter) employing good software development methodolgies - just based on thier own release histories), then I'll be happy about it. Otherwise, I'm going with whomever I determine the best to be. From where I currently sit, the best looks like it will be the TIVO series 3. So, that's where I've set my sights for now.

If DirecTV/NDS had approached Microsoft to create a DVR for them, I'd have been more hopeful about the resulting product as Microsoft is a software development company, they are aware of and use good software development practices and as a user of both their NT-based operating systems and software devleopment language tools, I personally attest that I am happy with the software that they write. (And, there's no need to bring up the Ultimate TV model - I'm already well aware of it, but Microsoft abandoned it long ago and it's now out of date in regards to new compression, etc technologies anyway).


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

As someone earlier stated, a DVR *must*:
- Record what I tell it to with 100% accuracy (guide data errors aside)
- Reliably record only first run when I tell it to (guide data errors aside)
- Reliably fast-forward through commercials

Everything else is a distant second. The R15 has problems with two of those three items. That's a major, major problem with the R15. You can line up whatever other features and issues you want, but nothing comes close to the list above.

The R15 is a bad DVR, plain and simple.


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## SamRoza (Jun 21, 2006)

The R15 I had, actually had problems with all 3 of those above functions, not just 2 of 3. My TiVo, as obsolete as it is, does all 3 without resetting, reformatting, adding and removing season passes to 'tweak' the unit into working properly. It did and does this right out of the box with no teeth gnashing or hair pulling.

Sam


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> As someone earlier stated, a DVR *must*:
> - Record what I tell it to with 100% accuracy (guide data errors aside)
> - Reliably record only first run when I tell it to (guide data errors aside)
> - Reliably fast-forward through commercials


I listed those three items as my top three DVR requirements earlier within this thread.


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## Whistlingleaf (Jul 2, 2006)

Just an average joe TV watcher here, and I didn't know I was a Tivo zealot until my old Hughes SD-DVR40 died on us last week, and DTV sent us an R-15 unit as a replacement.

2 thumbs down on the R-15 from me and the wifey. :down: :down: 

The interface on the R-15 is terrible compared to our Tivo unit. When you have 30 shows on season pass manager the R-15 just doesn't cut it. (The wifey has like 20 cooking and other home shows on season pass.)

Am exploring buying a refurbished SD-DVR40 to replace our dead one or maybe buying a new Tivo formatted harddrive, and install it myself.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

SamRoza said:


> The R15 I had, actually had problems with all 3 of those above functions, not just 2 of 3. My TiVo, as obsolete as it is, does all 3 without resetting, reformatting, adding and removing season passes to 'tweak' the unit into working properly. It did and does this right out of the box with no teeth gnashing or hair pulling.
> 
> Sam


Obsolete Is an incorrect word. In the tivo world the directivos are obsolete but in the satellite dvr world they are still cutting edge because no one has come up with anything that operates as good  . Even if i still had a series 1 I would consider it still cutting edge even against the R15. R15 has usb (still not active) and any features the r15 have that directivo does not still pales in comparision to what the s/2 directivo have.

My brief side bty side compare.

R15 100 hrs caller id no phone required(other than that no other features different,at least none i know of)

Directivo less hrs but that simply can be made better(infact better than r15 cause you can have as much hrs as you want) Phone required but not neccesary(can easily be dealt with with hacks or just ignore the Nagging) No caller id but who cares( many dont even have caller id and Personaly I dont care who calls me I have distinct ring so i know long before caller id kicks in if i want the call)

Now the differences that matter (BTW This compare Is for the owned euipt not leased)

R15 still doesnt function as it should almost 9 months after release. You cant watch your shows if you have no D* (Not sure but would like correction on this ,If you suspend your account will the 15 also not work?) User interface is not that simple to use. I have gotten calls from friends and family both who owned Dtivo and who never used a dvr before and most dont like the 15

Dtivo has always worked 100% right out of the box Unless you have a defect which happens with the most cutting edge tech.
Dtivo shows are yours for life so if you have 5 with 900 hours each if D* allof a sudden goes bye bye or you move and can no longer get D* you have a lifetime of shows to watch.
My 75 year old mom who is the most Non tech person in the world(doesnt even have call wait or id) got an r15 and was calling me every day to help her sometimes 5 and 6 times a day(keep in mind she never had a dvr in her life. She had a vcr and was constantly troubled IE: every time there was a power outage she had to re program it and so on)
I brought her one of my dsr 704 to use and told her to send the 15 back. She was using it right away with no help from me once I explained the basic setup and functions   Now she calls me to ask me how i am 

Perhaps i am biased tword dtivo but thanx to my nephew who had to get a 15 i got to see how it works and I prefer the dtivo hands down. Perhaps in many years d*will improve the 15 or later units but IMHO They dont have it right yet.

Something i thought about when i heard that the 15 is useless without D* What happens to all those that bought them Nov- march if They move and cant get D* any more(Do they have a paper weight) Obviously they can sell them But what if they had lots of movies and shows they like., are they gone, if yes Its too bad Earl did not have this info in the initial review before the lease program.

Also what happens if they try and sell the 15 Is there some stupid D* rule that says you cant reactivate a used R15( Out of curiosity has any one activated a used r15, can it be done) If not than if you leave D* you reaaly have a paper weight.

Edit: I stress again that this compare is for owned units as some have said with leased units the No function no D* does not matter as you send them back.

Keep in mind There will be used dtivos out there being sold for years to come and can still be considered owned!


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