# CES 2008, Any guesses on what we will see from TiVo?



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

CES 2008 starts this monday January 7th and runs until the 10th. What do you think we will hear from TiVo? My guess is that we will not hear anything new, it will most likely be rehashes of recent news such as...

- SDV dongle
- Rapsody on TiVO
- Update on ComcasTiVo (hopefully)

I really hope TiVo pulls something big out of their hat and surprises the hell out of me.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Demo of TiVo Series 4 = Dual mode OCAP/TiVo which switches between OCAP mode enabling VOD and TiVo mode which is what we've come to know an love.

Wishful thinking, I know. Even if the demo has a man behind the curtain.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ah30k said:


> Demo of TiVo Series 4 = Dual mode OCAP/TiVo which switches between OCAP mode enabling VOD and TiVo mode which is what we've come to know an love.
> 
> Wishful thinking, I know. Even if the demo has a man behind the curtain.


maybe not wishful - that OCAP hybrid came to my mind as well. Certainly it would be a hands off demo with a lot of rigged content but TiVo should be wanting to keep talk of such a box out there to keep the cable companies responsive to such an idea.

Wonder if we would see a continuation of the TiVo HD line consuming functionallity of the Series 2 line as they slowly move away from series 2 manufacturing


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Series 2 Digital. What amounts to a TiVo HD with no HD outputs or eSATA, and only an 80GB drive, but has an STB input/IR/serial. Launch "by fall".

The Tuning Resolver may be demoed, if only in the back room.

I wouldn't expect the Series 4 (if there is one) at CES this year.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

I'd love to hear at CES that Amazon Unbox will begin to offer in the near future.... HD downloads, and closed captioning.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

classicsat said:


> Series 2 Digital. What amounts to a TiVo HD with no HD outputs or eSATA, and only an 80GB drive, but has an STB input/IR/serial. Launch "by fall".


A THIRD TiVo that does HD??


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> A THIRD TiVo that does HD??


He said no HD Outputs - He's saying a S2 that can do digital (but not HD).

That's a niche TiVo does not need to be in.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

SullyND said:


> He said no HD Outputs - He's saying a S2 that can do digital (but not HD).
> 
> That's a niche TiVo does not need to be in.


Hmm.. I see. I guess I got confused when he said "Like a TiVo HD". To me, that means something that handles/records HD.

Isn't there already a Series 2 that handles digital? (i.e. the Series 2 DT?)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Hmm.. I see. I guess I got confused when he said "Like a TiVo HD". To me, that means something that handles/records HD.
> 
> Isn't there already a Series 2 that handles digital? (i.e. the Series 2 DT?)


The DT can handle hooking up one Set top box via IR or serial connection for one digital recording at a time. I have one setup and switched only 64 (SciFi channel) to digital in channels I receive. So all the rest of the channels can get recorded on the available second analog tuner without conflict.

but the speculation is around the Tivo HD. The case and motherboard for the TiVo HD has the knockouts and pinouts for adding in composite INPUT and IR/Serial connectors. TiVo may go only so far as stopping production of current DT hardware and use the TiVo HD model to make an analog only version without the cable cards even. Nothing exciting in this, just could save TiVo some manufacturing costs is all.

or they could go hybrid and do a cable card version of the DT that has no HD output. Personally I do not see any money saved on such a beast as knocking out the HD parts do not save a lot of money.

Now will they have a hybrid that will do the HD and cable cards along with controlling a Set Top box to help with SDV/VOD/PPV. Nah - that seems clunky to me as well and costs more.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

SullyND said:


> He said no HD Outputs - He's saying a S2 that can do digital (but not HD).
> 
> That's a niche TiVo does not need to be in.


It sounds like a bizzare idea to me.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm hoping for a S3 with built in BluRay/HD-DVD combo player. Doesn't need to burn, just need a combo player like the new LG or Samsung units but with a TiVo UI. 

I'm also hoping for a portable player which you can connect directly your network and download programs from your TiVo without the need for a PC. It would use some sort of dock with built in wireless/ethernet and would use the MRV protocol for transfers for increased speed and reliability. (as opposed to TTG) It would also have a large drive, for holding HD programs, a wide screen display and controls similar to those on the peanut remote for easy navigation and trick play. 

Another, more realistic, hope... Some sort of partnership with the major networks for free downloadable TV programs via TiVoCast. That way when I miss an episode of Lost because my cable screwed up I wont have to watch it on my laptop or pay $2 to download it via iTunes.

I'll be there Monday morning, so I'll get to see first hand what they've got setup. Maybe MZ can hook me up with one of those private tours he seems to be privy to. 

Dan


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I'm hoping for a S3 with built in BluRay/HD-DVD combo player. Doesn't need to burn, just need a combo player like the new LG or Samsung units but with a TiVo UI.
> 
> I'm also hoping for a portable player which you can connect directly your network and download programs from your TiVo without the need for a PC. It would use some sort of dock with built in wireless/ethernet and would use the MRV protocol for transfers for increased speed and reliability. (as opposed to TTG) It would also have a large drive, for holding HD programs, a wide screen display and controls similar to those on the peanut remote for easy navigation and trick play.
> 
> ...


These are some good concepts.

The combo would have to decide between HD and Blu Ray. I'd like to see burning too; if TiVo used a transcoder chip they could burn to SD DVD; what about burning HD to SD DVDs analogously to the thread in the S3 Forum? What issues might come up burning HD content to Hi Def or SD DVDs?

The portable ought to have a direct USB connect too. What will do the transcoding?

Considering that Networks stream recent episodes free to PCs, the $2 you pay to Unbox or iTunes is rediculous - and clearly not a price level which brings this method to the mainstream. However, I think TiVo is much too small for Networks to bother with TiVoCast (and they have to do it in larger more expensive mpeg2 files.) Changing the economic arrangement for DOD of recent episodes - with ad insertion - is probably the best opportunity; recent weeks' episodes could be $.39 with a small up to date ad insert. I don't particularly like this idea as a long term business model; I just think it is something in the realm of possibility based on current trends.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I'd like the ability to TTG to an internet client directly from the TiVo. I used to be able to use Orb/DVR-Anywhere to watch my TiVo shows from abroad but now that doesn't work with the S3. Yes, I know I can buy a SlingBox but I am too cheap and don't want to take over the home screen when slinging.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

While we're wishing, how about a Series 3 DirecTiVo?


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

Maybe a sneak peek at whatever they're working on with Roxio.


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## raianoat (Jan 27, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> I'd love to hear at CES that Amazon Unbox will begin to offer in the near future.... HD downloads, and closed captioning.


that would be great. If amazon were to offer he downloads I would be all over it.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

flatcurve said:


> Maybe a sneak peek at whatever they're working on with Roxio.


Or even better, what they're working on with Nero. (Has there been any discussion of further efforts with Roxio?)

But that doesn't seem very CES like. (It's software, not hardware)

My guess? It's going to be a quiet year at CES for TiVo.

SDV Dongle? No reason for a big event
ComcasTiVo? What would be new?
"Series4"? I'm not convinced there is one (Rather than an extension of the Series3).

Standalone hardware running a version of the OCAP-based ComcasTiVo software? I could see that.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

SullyND said:


> SDV Dongle? No reason for a big event
> ComcasTiVo? What would be new?
> "Series4"? I'm not convinced there is one (Rather than an extension of the Series3).


I agree completely. Could be an off-year for TiVo at CES, something which they cannot afford IMHO.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

SullyND said:


> "Series4"? I'm not convinced there is one (Rather than an extension of the Series3).
> 
> Standalone hardware running a version of the OCAP-based ComcasTiVo software? I could see that.


the standalone OCAP based unit would be the series 4. I see no reason why they could not do a hands off demo of such a device to try and keep the idea moving along.

Maybe we also hear some nice Netflix anouncement of an agreemnet to bring the streaming movie idea to TiVo.

This is a different kind of year for TiVo. Used to be we would all be pining away on the board for the next thing but hear nothing about it until CES. The new way seems to be to get the word out sooner, like the SDV dongle, and then no big bang left for CES


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

SullyND said:


> Or even better, what they're working on with Nero.


yeah, that's what i meant to say.


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## optivity (Sep 18, 2006)

classicsat said:


> I wouldn't expect the Series 4 (if there is one) at CES this year.


Disappointing. I am hoping for a Series 4 TiVo w/M-Card slot that supports SDV. Being a CATV subscriber this is a necessity for me.


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## MarkSFCA (Oct 18, 2004)

How about a TiVo HD that works with satellite, both DirecTV and Dish? That would be a big announcement.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

MarkSFCA said:


> How about a TiVo HD that works with satellite, both DirecTV and Dish? That would be a big announcement.


That is what essentially I said. Non HD TiVo HD with STB inputs and control. You don't think they'd do an HD recorder from an external STB, do you? I'd be completely surprised if they do.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

MarkSFCA said:


> How about a TiVo HD that works with satellite, both DirecTV and Dish? That would be a big announcement.


It'll be right next to the flying pig booth. The satellite systems are totally closed, and there is no way TiVo could produce a box like that without cooperation from both DirecTV and Dish. And I don't see that ever happening. One of them, maybe. Both on one box? Never.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MarkSFCA said:


> How about a TiVo HD that works with satellite, both DirecTV and Dish? That would be a big announcement.


that would be the other logical use for a hybrid TiVo HD other than controlling a cable STB to do SDV channels or VOD.

IE a Tivo HD that could use cable cards, OTA and/or control a Sat receiver to record SD off of them. Still kind of a niche and I myself have no desire to pay extra for the IR/serial and composite input capability I would not use


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

classicsat said:


> That is what essentially I said. Non HD TiVo HD with STB inputs and control. You don't think they'd do an HD recorder from an external STB, do you? I'd be completely surprised if they do.


There is quite a big difference between what you said and what he said.



pkscout said:


> It'll be right next to the flying pig booth. The satellite systems are totally closed, and there is no way TiVo could produce a box like that without cooperation from both DirecTV and Dish. And I don't see that ever happening. One of them, maybe. Both on one box? Never.


Are you expecting one or two flying pig boothes this year?


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

Maybe one of the great solutions that our grad students came up with?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

flatcurve said:


> Maybe one of the great solutions that our grad students came up with?


LOL!

How about the TiVo HD Dew?

Similarly to using caffeine in humans, the chips in a TiVo HD are overclocked to speed everything up.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

TiVo will have some tough competition at CES.

Motorola and Scientific Atlanta both announced next-generation DVRs with faster processors, MPEG-4 AVC decoding, and 1GHz channel delivery for shipment in 2H 2008.

The tuners in the TivoHD and Series3 do not have 1GHz support, so this could render TiVos unable to support new and upcoming HD channels on some systems. That said, we are unlikely to see popular channels offered using the 860-1GHz spectrum anytime soon since the millions of existing Motorola STBs and DVRs can't support them either. Cable companies don't want to throw those boxes (billions of $) away.

With its new DCX boxes, Motorola has also adopted a sleek black aesthetic which puts TiVos to shame:










Motorola Press release:
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail.jsp?globalObjectId=9066_8995_23&pageLocaleId=2026


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

They should do a "high end" version of the TivoHD with 4-channel recording, 1080p output, bigger HD, etc.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Luke M said:


> They should do a "high end" version of the TivoHD with 4-channel recording, 1080p output, bigger HD, etc.


why 1080p?? no 1080p being broadcast.


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> why 1080p?? no 1080p being broadcast.


There's a ton of 1080p being broadcast - as 1080i. Movies, TV shows, etc. Anyway, that's irrelevant. It's just that 1080p is the native display format for today's LCDs and plasmas, and not every TV handles the required 1080i to 1080p conversion well. In fact, most don't.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I don't understand why the Cable Company's can't adopt the Sat concept. Couldn't they charge a bit more ($199 up front) for a high end DVR and do a commitment? I think it would help them deliver higher end equipment...


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Luke M said:


> It's just that 1080p is the native display format for today's LCDs and plasmas, and not every TV handles the required 1080i to 1080p conversion well. In fact, most don't.


And why do you think a $400 Tivo would do a better job than a $3000 Sony XBR or A $4000 Panny plasma?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> And why do you think a $400 Tivo would do a better job than a $3000 Sony XBR or A $4000 Panny plasma?


Probably because it only takes a $10-$15 chip (plus implementation) to do it better.

Not to mention that most folks don't buy $4000-$4000 TVs. The majority of HDTVs sold are lower-end models from the likes of Vizio.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jrm01 said:


> And why do you think a $400 Tivo would do a better job than a $3000 Sony XBR or A $4000 Panny plasma?


I thought the S3 was the $400 TiVo. 

Just to mention about this... I use a THD on a low end 30" HDTV CRT via HDMI - so obviously the CRT is 1080i native.

I happen to have had my nose right up to the screen while playing CNBC (analog - LiveTV - Best quality) and the text was razor sharp and clear. That is for the THD using its own mpeg encoder and scaling SD to 1080i. Such a channel would look horrible on that TV if it displayed it itself. It does look horrible using a 240's S-Video.

Just to mention that the THD can do a tremendous job already.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

TiVo whispers in the back room to a chosen few about the Series4 which will record in mpeg4 hi def from component and HDMI inputs.

It will be as easy to install as a Series2, will work with everything from cable to satellite to your mother's chicken soup.

What's a cableCARD?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

BlackBetty said:


> I'd love to hear at CES that Amazon Unbox will begin to offer in the near future.... HD downloads, and closed captioning.


That and SDV thingie are the the only things I am hoping for. If Unbox started with HD downloads (1280*720p would be fine with me) I would be very happy, since I wouldn't have to get a Blu-ray player.


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## sicembears (Sep 20, 2006)

THX Tivo so when you change the channel you still get sound!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

BTW, here's a link to G4's 2008 CES Program.

It occurs to me that TiVo should have a TiVoCast for things like this. And a weekly dose of Shannon sharing TiVo news and tips would certainly not be unwelcome.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> TiVo whispers in the back room to a chosen few about the Series4 which will record in mpeg4 hi def from component and HDMI inputs.
> 
> It will be as easy to install as a Series2, will work with everything from cable to satellite to your mother's chicken soup.
> 
> What's a cableCARD?


a cable card is for dual tuners  Recording from two component inputs at the same time would double up on some serious added hardware I would not want to pay for verusus cable card. Recording from HDMI is just not gonna happen. DRM don'y yah know.

But true, recording from component is the only way TiVo can crack the Sat market currently. They might be tinkering around with something to do that. I just would not see it as that big a market for TiVo versus an OCAP box for two way on cable only DVR


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> a cable card is for dual tuners  Recording from two component inputs at the same time would double up on some serious added hardware I would not want to pay for verusus cable card. Recording from HDMI is just not gonna happen. DRM don'y yah know.
> 
> But true, recording from component is the only way TiVo can crack the Sat market currently. They might be tinkering around with something to do that. I just would not see it as that big a market for TiVo versus an OCAP box for two way on cable only DVR


Yeah, dual tuners are still going to be a problem using any separate tuner box.

I don't have a good answer for the HDMI thing. Looking at it simply, HDMI is merely the direct result of a recordable mpeg stream, so why shouldn't it be recordable? Then, why shouldn't a recompression of it be recordable? I don't know the reasons behind this.

I'd expect TiVo to be selling the cheaper Series3.5 (OCAP-cableCARD) along with the Series4, and the Series2s they are still taking delivery of from their order 5 years back  .


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

HDMI is uncompressed and often encrypted with HDCP. By design, HDCP is not copyable.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5850652#post5850652

TiVo Applies Highly Valued Season Pass Functionality to Web Video 
Further Demonstrates TiVo's Commitment to Providing a One-Box, One-Stop Destination for all Entertainment and Content Needs

ALVISO, Calif., Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- TiVo (Nasdaq: TIVO - News), the creator of and the leading innovator in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs) today announced TiVo subscribers will soon be able to easily watch an enormous variety of video content from the web directly on their television sets by applying TiVo's popular Season Pass functionality to web video. With the proliferation of content available online today, consumers have access to thousands of hours of content from well-known networks to special interest videos, but need an easy way to search, discover, and enjoy this entertainment on the TV set.
ADVERTISEMENT

TiVo users can subscribe to and watch a broad range of content available on Real Simple Syndication ("RSS") feeds, including everything from network nightly newscasts, to vignettes and original content from major networks such as Comedy Central or Discovery, as well as niche interest and hobbyist videos covering areas far more specialized than cable and satellite channels, not to mention new, independently produced media content such as DiggNation and Ask A Ninja. Through this new approach, TiVo elevates web video, making it easily available as part of the personalized and customized TV viewing experience that TiVo provides.

"By adding the Season Pass functionality to web video viewing, we are providing consumers a new way to easily and automatically access the content they want to watch on their television sets," said Tom Rogers, President and CEO of TiVo. "TiVo is building toward the dream of providing one stop for all content, through one box, integrated into one interface, accessible through one simple remote control. With TiVo providing this web video feature, along with 20,000 Amazon titles, millions of songs, thousands of music videos, and an enormous collection of photos, we have already gone a long way toward building out the dream."

In delivering web video automatically, it will appear in the user's Now Playing List alongside recorded TV shows. In addition, TiVo will provide an on-screen guide of select web video sources for users to browse and select Season Pass recordings. Consumers can even get a Season Pass recording of their own personal video folders on their PC, where they save their home movies and other video downloads. And High Definition Television enthusiasts will appreciate that TiVo will preserve the original quality of high-resolution web videos when delivered to TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD DVRs.

The new web video capability requires TiVo Desktop Plus 2.6, an update to the Windows application which also converts recorded TV shows for viewing on portable devices like iPod and Sony PlayStation Portable. TiVo Desktop Plus 2.6 will be available in March for a one-time fee of $24.95, and will be a free upgrade to earlier versions.

"With our innovative and robust broadband offerings, TiVo already provides more content than any other TV service that exists today," said Tara Maitra, Vice President of Content Services at TiVo. "Now that TiVo has made retrieving web content easier than ever by integrating it with the popular Season Pass technology, consumers can enjoy great web video as if it's a whole new set of TV program options. And, if the writers' strike goes on, these options on the TV set may become more important to many viewers even more quickly."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Microsoft is expected to anounce that Samsung and some other companies will incorporate media center extenders in the LCD TV set directly and should work wirelessly.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Funny thing is that TiVo isn't applying Season passes to web content at all. It looks like you'll subscribe to the RSS feed in TiVo Desktop 2.6 (or the updated Roxio software for Mac folks). That software will download it, convert it, and upload it to your TiVo automatically.

So really almost nothing new here, but they got a full page press release out of it anyway.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

pkscout said:


> Funny thing is that TiVo isn't applying Season passes to web content at all. It looks like you'll subscribe to the RSS feed in TiVo Desktop 2.6 (or the updated Roxio software for Mac folks). That software will download it, convert it, and upload it to your TiVo automatically.
> 
> So really almost nothing new here, but they got a full page press release out of it anyway.


well, people that use desktop have been wanting _folders_ for a long time


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Luke M said:


> There's a ton of 1080p being broadcast - as 1080i. Movies, TV shows, etc. Anyway, that's irrelevant. It's just that 1080p is the native display format for today's LCDs and plasmas, and not every TV handles the required 1080i to 1080p conversion well. In fact, most don't.


As someone who works in television post production I can tell you that NO material is broadcast in 1080p. None. 1080p is only for HD home video.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

derekcbart said:


> As someone who works in television post production I can tell you that NO material is broadcast in 1080p. None. 1080p is only for HD home video.


ESPN is planning on recording in 1080p soon. Just because it isn't broadcast in 1080p doesn't mean it will not ever be available in 1080p.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

rainwater said:


> ESPN is planning on recording in 1080p soon. Just because it isn't broadcast in 1080p doesn't mean it will not ever be available in 1080p.


Yeah, pretty much it is. Productions are recording in 1080p for home video not broadcast. All of the networks spent ridiculous amounts of money to convert to 720p/1080i and they are not going to spend any more money for 1080p when the casual viewer doesn't even notice the difference. FOX only broadcasts in 720p and before that they broadcast off of analog BetaSP tapes, so they are definitely not going to be going 1080p.

IF, and that is a big if, television is eventually broadcast in 1080p it won't be for at least 5-10 years and by then we will be up to TiVo Series 5 or 6 and those considerations will be taking care of.

Forgive me, but I just get annoyed whenever I see anyone on this forum complaining that the TiVo HD/Series 3 doesn't record in 1080p when nothing is broadcast in 1080p and nothing is planned on being broadcast in 1080p.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

derekcbart said:


> As someone who works in television post production I can tell you that NO material is broadcast in 1080p. None. 1080p is only for HD home video.


But the TiVo could play 1080p home movies and pictures.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

derekcbart said:


> As someone who works in television post production I can tell you that NO material is broadcast in 1080p. None. 1080p is only for HD home video.


I think his point was that there is lots of 1080i content out there and a good TV will convert it to 1080p (because that's the native display resolution of that TV).


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

derekcbart said:


> As someone who works in television post production I can tell you that NO material is broadcast in 1080p. None. 1080p is only for HD home video.


You need to distinguish between the content and the container. 1080/60i is fully capable of containing 1080/24p or 1080/30p content. And there is a ton of 1080/24p content being broadcast - movies, TV shows, etc. It is contained in a 1080/60i "wrapper", but it's still fundamentally 1080p, and a smart deinterlacer can recover the original 1080p - without any loss.

By the way, did you know that HD-DVDs are 1080/60i, including the ones labeled 1080p on the package? Not that it matters much. Deinterlacing them is ridiculously simple - just ignore the interlace flags. (This works with most DVDs too).


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> But the TiVo could play 1080p home movies and pictures.


I am not aware of any HD home movie camera that records in 1080p. I just did a check on Amazon and all that I could find said that they recorded in 1080i.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Luke M said:


> You need to distinguish between the content and the container. 1080/60i is fully capable of containing 1080/24p or 1080/30p content. And there is a ton of 1080/24p content being broadcast - movies, TV shows, etc. It is contained in a 1080/60i "wrapper", but it's still fundamentally 1080p, and a smart deinterlacer can recover the original 1080p - without any loss.
> 
> By the way, did you know that HD-DVDs are 1080/60i, including the ones labeled 1080p on the package? Not that it matters much. Deinterlacing them is ridiculously simple - just ignore the interlace flags. (This works with most DVDs too).


1080/24p/30p does not equal 1080p. 1080/24p is broadcast as 1080i. 24p, 30p, and 60i are different ways of recording video images and they have no bearing on how the video is broadcast. The video is broadcast as either 720p or 1080i.

If you deliver a show to FOX then you need to deliver a 720p master tape. You cannot deliver a 1080i or 1080p master tape. They will not be able to broadcast it. Same thing goes for CBS or NBC. You have to deliver a 1080i master tape. You cannot deliver a 720p or 1080p master tape because they will not be able to broadcast it.

Now, most HD productions are starting to be recorded in 1080p so that they can do a conversion dub for the broadcast and have the full 1080p master tape for HD home video.

The conversion to HD increased the complexity of the post production process because there are so many different flavors of HD and they are not compatible with each other in regards to broadcasting. This confusion is spread to the viewer because the average, and even the above average, viewer tends to confuse the different specifications because they use similar acronyms but mean different things in the technical broadcast realm.


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

derekcbart said:


> 1080/24p/30p does not equal 1080p. 1080/24p is broadcast as 1080i. 24p, 30p, and 60i are different ways of recording video images and they have no bearing on how the video is broadcast. The video is broadcast as either 720p or 1080i.


That's exactly what I said originally. "There's a ton of 1080p being broadcast - as 1080i."


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Luke M said:


> That's exactly what I said originally. "There's a ton of 1080p being broadcast - as 1080i."


Technically it is different.

There is stuff shot as 1080p but it is not technically broadcast as 1080i. It is dubbed/converted to 1080i and then broadcast. You cannot technically broadcast something that is 1080p as 1080i and that is what I thought your original quote was trying to say was being done, and it isn't.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Interesting that Archos has announced a DVR box with component in. 
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/15/archos-tv-plus-details-hands-on/

For $250 you get an 80G drive and it can only record up to VGA resolution. Maybe nice for recording stuff to put on your portable, but not so great for TV.

This is why TiVo isn't introducing any new boxes with encoders - it's just not cost competitive.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

derekcbart said:


> Yeah, pretty much it is. Productions are recording in 1080p for home video not broadcast.


I never said anything about broadcast. Just because something isn't broadcast at 1080p doesn't mean you will not be able to get the content at 1080p. The content can become available through HD-DVD/Blu-ray or through downloadable content.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

rainwater said:


> I never said anything about broadcast. Just because something isn't broadcast at 1080p doesn't mean you will not be able to get the content at 1080p. The content can become available through HD-DVD/Blu-ray or through downloadable content.


The original post was a request for a TiVo to be announced at CES that would record in 1080p. This is unnecessary since nothing is broadcast in 1080p. I'm sorry, but a discussion about TiVo announcements at CES has nothing to do with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray or downloads. So, if that was your point then that was not clear to me at all and I apologize.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

derekcbart said:


> I am not aware of any HD home movie camera that records in 1080p. I just did a check on Amazon and all that I could find said that they recorded in 1080i.


Somebody just announced one at CES. I want to say Panasonic or Phillips... Can't recall.


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## jfstx (Aug 26, 2005)

has anyone heard anything outta tivo at ces yet?


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

derekcbart said:


> The original post was a request for a TiVo to be announced at CES that would record in 1080p.


Post #30 clearly states 1080p *output*. Nobody said anything about recording 1080p.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Luke M said:


> Post #30 clearly states 1080p *output*. Nobody said anything about recording 1080p.


There is no point in TiVo making a box that outputs something in 1080p if nothing is broadcast/recorded in 1080p.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why this is apparently so controversial of a concept. Having a 1080p TiVo is kind of like having an appendix. Sure, it might be theoretically useful at some point in time, but it is in reality actually rather useless.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Trying to get this thread back on track...

This appears to be the only announcement from TiVo at CES so far:

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/press...tVideoAutomaticallytoTheirTelevisionSets.html


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

derekcbart said:


> There is no point in TiVo making a box that outputs something in 1080p if nothing is broadcast/recorded in 1080p.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why this is apparently so controversial of a concept. Having a 1080p TiVo is kind of like having an appendix. Sure, it might be theoretically useful at some point in time, but it is in reality actually rather useless.


This has already been explained. Please read this thread from the top.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

derekcbart said:


> There is no point in TiVo making a box that outputs something in 1080p if nothing is broadcast/recorded in 1080p.


Much of the content on TV is 1080p24 in a 1080i carrier, just like you get from a Blu-ray player set to output 1080i. Some TVs can correctly detect and display that 1080p source within a 1080i signal, but most cannot.

There's also the issue of format conversion. To get the best picture on all HD channels with a 1080p TV, you must use native output. But most people don't care for the resolution switching, so they use a fixed mode. Conversion of 720p60->1080i (fixed 1080i) and 1080i->720p (fixed 720p) are both lossy. Done right, a fixed 1080p mode would avoid that loss and eliminate the need for resolution switching.



derekcbart said:


> I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why this is apparently so controversial of a concept. Having a 1080p TiVo is kind of like having an appendix. Sure, it might be theoretically useful at some point in time, but it is in reality actually rather useless.


As the previous poster said, this would differentiate a premium or high-end version of the product.

I would not underestimate the marketing value of 1080p output. Remember when HD-DVD players were only available with 1080i output? That caused a huge marketing problem for Toshiba. Full 1080p output on a DVR could be a windfall for TiVo.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

derekcbart said:


> There is no point in TiVo making a box that outputs something in 1080p if nothing is broadcast/recorded in 1080p.


There is lots of 1080p content out there that TiVo could play, if it was transfered to it via the network. Personally I don't care, 1080i looks great to me.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Overall, not a terribly exciting CES for TiVo. Hopefully this means that they're following the "announce when it's ready" model which seemed to work well with the TiVo HD.


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## lasergecko (Mar 13, 2003)

pkscout said:


> It'll be right next to the flying pig booth.


Why would the makers of the Whole Hog lighting consoles have a booth at CES? LDI, yes, but CES...oh wait...nevermind.

There wasn't much exciting stuff at the TiVo booth this year. They did show two functional TiVo Comcast boxes and two other Motorola Cox boxes (the same model, but with cards over the IR receivers). Support for TiVo on Scientific Craplanta boxes is "being developed".

They did have some cool looking TiVo boxes for Mexico and China that looked like they were ready to roll. Seeing the TiVo interface in Chinese was cool. They also had some proto-demo DBM (?) and overseas units that were being shopped around to partners. It was kind of cool to see a completely chrome version of the TiVoHD.

They were demonstrating Rhapsody and TiVo advertising and all of the stuff about which a TiVoCommunity reader already knows. I did not see the SDV dongle, though, but I could've just missed it.

We didn't spend a whole lot of time at TiVo's booth this year because we were exhausted since we started at the South Hall and worked our way there. Once again, TiVo had the best bags (good quality fabric with zippers), pens, and goodies of anyone.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lasergecko said:


> Why would the makers of the Whole Hog lighting consoles have a booth at CES? LDI, yes, but CES...oh wait...nevermind.
> 
> There wasn't much exciting stuff at the TiVo booth this year. They did show two functional TiVo Comcast boxes and two other Motorola Cox boxes (the same model, but with cards over the IR receivers). Support for TiVo on Scientific Craplanta boxes is "being developed".
> 
> ...


Were they still in that ridiculous location upstairs where nobody goes unless they're specifically looking for TiVo? I've always wondered why they weren't on the main floor so the average attendee could see them and generate some buzz for the products.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

lasergecko said:


> .......Once again, TiVo had the best bags (good quality fabric with zippers), pens, and goodies of anyone.


Any interest in trading a TiVo pen for something like......say....a window cling?


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

http://www.betanews.com/article/Up_Close_TiVo_adds_video_transfers_from_the_PC/1199839183

"Although TiVo didn't have any new hardware to show off at CES, the company was demoing its upcoming video features, which include the ability to transfer downloaded content from a PC to the TiVo. This means TiVo users can subscribe to video podcasts or download DivX movies and have them sync automatically to the device for watching on the TV.

First up, TiVo will release a new TiVo Desktop client -- version 2.6 -- in March to enable the functionality. Beta testing is expected to begin in February. TiVo Desktop will transcode the video into the MPEG-2 format used by the set-top box. High-definition content is fully supported.

Video content that is set to automatically sync will show up on TiVo's Now Playing list.

Transfered content will show up just like any other recorded show.

The PC running TiVo desktop will also show up, so available video content can be viewed and transfered on demand."


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah-otherwise everyone *****es... "but they said it would be here on March 1'st, and it is now March 8'th.....OMG the sky is falling....Tivo lied to us...Class action lawsuits...."



nrc said:


> Overall, not a terribly exciting CES for TiVo. Hopefully this means that they're following the "announce when it's ready" model which seemed to work well with the TiVo HD.


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## lasergecko (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Were they still in that ridiculous location upstairs where nobody goes unless they're specifically looking for TiVo? I've always wondered why they weren't on the main floor so the average attendee could see them and generate some buzz for the products.


Yes and me, too!

I can understand if there was some big "invitation only" event for TiVo, but there never is. Most companies have a booth on the floor and special "deal making, quiet meeting rooms". It's quite the walk after you've had all of that "inflamed senses" as Flanders would say. TiVo is just more refined. I guess they're making enough money to not need hype...oh wait.

Yes, it's great to get to talk quietly with people, but they should have something on the floor, too. Those giveaways always draw a crowd! (Oh, and BOOOO to Adobe for giving out cds with 30 day DEMOs of Photoshop Elements. BFD. Booo hisss.)

Although at least I did get to schlep through the Alpine room on the way. They had a very well engineered booth with at least ten, possibly more subwoofers in a very small space...all driven off of one amplifier...with a solid plexiglass, aluminum reinforced door...and a set of soundproof ear muffs inside and a deadman's switch...and a PC display outside show the Real Time Analyzer software...and SPL readings of 150+dB.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Tivo will get bought in the next 60 days.


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## thespacepope72 (Jan 25, 2005)

By?


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

derekcbart said:


> Trying to get this thread back on track...
> 
> This appears to be the only announcement from TiVo at CES so far:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/press...tVideoAutomaticallytoTheirTelevisionSets.html


There is a brief live demonstration of this (direct from CES) on the latest dl.tv video podcast. Check it out over at http://dl.tv/


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

derspiess said:


> There is a brief live demonstration of this (direct from CES) on the latest dl.tv video podcast. Check it out over at http://dl.tv/


or on the TiVocast of DL.TV whne it comes down


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> or on the TiVocast of DL.TV whne it comes down


Yeah, unfortunately I usually get mine about a week late. Should actually be able get them more quickly in March, though.

In the meantime, I'll keep watching them as soon as they come out, on my Zune.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

OMG, only a 10 foot by 10 foot CES 2008 booth!!!??? What?, is tivo going downhill!!


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> or on the TiVocast of DL.TV when it comes down


Or you can be watching it now on your TiVo using the iTunes shortcut trick.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ah30k said:


> Demo of TiVo Series 4 = Dual mode OCAP/TiVo which switches between OCAP mode enabling VOD and TiVo mode which is what we've come to know an love.
> 
> Wishful thinking, I know. Even if the demo has a man behind the curtain.


one year later. Hopefully we see this at CES 2009 in less than a month.


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