# I called DTV Audio Droupouts



## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

I called DTV complaining of the audio dropouts and after 40 mins on the phone with advanced tech support they came back and said to turn off my DD 5.1 in the settings menu. They then offered my HD package free for the next 4 months and Showtime free for 3 months. I asked about the HR20 and he said "you don't want that one, it has too many bugs right now". He said they are working to fix the audio dropout issue. BTW, since switching off the DD 5.1 I have had no audio dropouts.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

GadgetJunkies said:


> I called DTV complaining of the audio dropouts and after 40 mins on the phone with advanced tech support they came back and said to turn off my DD 5.1 in the settings menu. They then offered my HD package free for the next 4 months and Showtime free for 3 months. I asked about the HR20 and he said "you don't want that one, it has too many bugs right now". He said they are working to fix the audio dropout issue. BTW, since switching off the DD 5.1 I have had no audio dropouts.


or dolby digital audio either...


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> or dolby digital audio either...


They had me set it to record in _Standard Audio_. If there is someting that I really want in DD I'll change the settings and take my chances.


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## whsbuss (Dec 16, 2002)

I thought the DD setting could affect the dropouts. But no deal. Had it off for 3 days and still getting dropouts Fox OTA.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

whsbuss said:


> I thought the DD setting could affect the dropouts. But no deal. Had it off for 3 days and still getting dropouts Fox OTA.


Same here.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

What I don't get is I had the audio dropouts before 6.3. After 6.3 I still have them but much less of them.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

GadgetJunkies said:


> They had me set it to record in _Standard Audio_. If there is someting that I really want in DD I'll change the settings and take my chances.


I'm not sure how that could fix the problem, since I have had the dropout problem from day one of 6.3a, and have always had my HR10 set to record only the standard audio.

If turning off recording of DD actually worked, that would jive with any theory that the problem is due to an issue with recording DD. Since that makes no difference, that theory is probably incorrect. The issue is probably more likely connected to how the HR10 demuxes the signals when DD is present, since it seems to be an issue only when DD is present.

For instance, when the tuner demodulates a MPTS bitstream that includes a ".1" channel, a ".2" channel, and a ".3" channel as well as elemental streams representing AC-3 audio for each, and DD for some, it must parse out the proper streams for recording and discard the rest. In the case of a ".1" channel, at the demultiplexing stage, the unneeded stuff is parsed out, discarded, and does not get recorded.

In my case, the DD has never been recorded, yet my HR10 has the dropout problem.


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> I'm not sure how that could fix the problem, since I have had the dropout problem from day one of 6.3a, and have always had my HR10 set to record only the standard audio.
> 
> If turning off recording of DD actually worked, that would jive with any theory that the problem is due to an issue with recording DD. Since that makes no difference, that theory is probably incorrect. The issue is probably more likely connected to how the HR10 demuxes the signals when DD is present, since it seems to be an issue only when DD is present.
> 
> ...


Seems there is no consensus on this issue. It's working for me at the moment.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I think the idea is to set the audio to play back the audio as PCM audio and not DD. It shouldn't matter what format you record the audio in. The dropouts are supposed to disappear when you switch to PCM audio playback. This has been tried and confirmed by numerous individuals in several forums.


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## broken back (Nov 30, 2004)

But what about when watching live tv in non DD on Fox and KXTA at this time having having audio drop outs. This has happened since upgrade this Monday. Its not network because we have a tv in kitchen(NOT HOOKED TO DTV) and watching same channels and other tv does not loose audio.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> I think the idea is to set the audio to play back the audio as PCM audio and not DD. It shouldn't matter what format you record the audio in. The dropouts are supposed to disappear when you switch to PCM audio playback. This has been tried and confirmed by numerous individuals in several forums.


"Confirm" it all you like. The fact that I have mine set to standard audio and still have the problem pretty much "unconfirms" any previous confirmation, completely. No longer seeing a problem that is very intermittent confirms nothing.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> I think the idea is to set the audio to play back the audio as PCM audio and not DD. It shouldn't matter what format you record the audio in. The dropouts are supposed to disappear when you switch to PCM audio playback. This has been tried and confirmed by numerous individuals in several forums.


Wrong answer. I don't know who you think has confirmed this since many here have posted that it is not true. I have *always* had my output set to PCM. I HAVE THE DROPOUTS.


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## redram38 (Apr 17, 2004)

I got the update today, and just tuned to my FOX OTA 13.1 in memphis Tn. I have audio hooked up as standard audio using rca cables to the TV from the Tivo. I had about a 5 second audio drop after watching for about 2 minutes of the game tonight. I then tuned to 88 the Fox HD national feed and have not had one as of yet. SoI can confirm it is there no matter if you use DD or standard audio. I am ok as long as 88 does ok but it will BLOW if it has drops as well. All else seems ok from what I have seen.


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## redram38 (Apr 17, 2004)

I can now also confirm that when I get the dropouts on my Fox OTA 13.1 they DO NOT occur on FOX 88. I have not had a dropout on any other OTA channel as of yet and hope like h#ll I don't


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

It appears to be connected to DD, which can be one reason FOX is reported more often having this issue than other stations, as FOX stations in virtually all markets pass DD during sports and prime, which is not the case for some of the other network affils, especially in smaller markets. Don't be too surprised if 88, which is FOX NYC, eventually shows the problem as well. As you say, you can see the problem 2 seconds after tuning in. But you can also watch for days without seeing it, on the same channel.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

I told my doctor my arm hurts when I move it like this. (showing him how hurt to move)
He said, "don't move it like that." 
problem solved!


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

And that contributes in what manner?

Those boxes with 6.3a have no choice but to "move like that".


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## redram38 (Apr 17, 2004)

I have a question about these drop outs. Has anyone had this happen on recordings they had before the upgrade, that you watched after the upgrade. In other words you recorded a show using 3.1, then upgraded to 6.3 watched the show that was recorded before the upgrade and had drop outs ??


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> It appears to be connected to DD, which can be one reason FOX is reported more often having this issue than other stations ...


Mr. Shoes ... I don't think it really is connected to DD, by which I presume you mean 5.1. The FOX station I work for doesn't send 5.1 during local programming, yet I experienced the dropouts every five minutes or so even then.

If you missed it, in an earlier post, I detailed an experiment where we took the FOX splicer out of the line during local programming, and that eliminated the problem. Technically the splicer shouldn't have been doing much, except passing the local stream, but obviously it is adding something to the data stream that 6.3 doesn't like.

As for why people aren't having problems with Ch. 88, perhaps it is because that isn't an ATSC stream?? Aren't those sent as DVB or some similar scheme?


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

Ok, as I mentioned before I had not viewed all of my recordings after switching to the standard audio. Watching a ABC OTA HD recording tonight there were 3 instances of audio dropout lasting a couple seconds, however this time I also lost picture quality. Before I only lost audio and it lasted for 5-8 seconds but the picture was fine. I have switched back to DD to see what happens.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

videojanitor said:


> Mr. Shoes ... I don't think it really is connected to DD, by which I presume you mean 5.1. The FOX station I work for doesn't send 5.1 during local programming, yet I experienced the dropouts every five minutes or so even then.
> 
> If you missed it, in an earlier post, I detailed an experiment where we took the FOX splicer out of the line during local programming, and that eliminated the problem. Technically the splicer shouldn't have been doing much, except passing the local stream, but obviously it is adding something to the data stream that 6.3 doesn't like.
> 
> As for why people aren't having problems with Ch. 88, perhaps it is because that isn't an ATSC stream?? Aren't those sent as DVB or some similar scheme?


To my friends, it's Ty (or Tom).

I think this is helpful. We need to have a number of posts illustrating the characteristic 6.3 dropout (silence for about 8 seconds followed by a brief video unlock and the return of audio, all happening within relatively good video and audio) DURING NON-NETWORK PROGRAMMING to confirm, as nearly all instances are reported as during network programming, so far. I don't think many stations send DD outside of prime and sports, other than PBS. But many have DD equipment in line at all times, especially some of those who demod/remod from ASI to HD-SDI to 310.

More instances are so far reported with FOX OTA than anywhere else, but FOX has more stations that pass DD than other networks. OTA also seems to have more reports than pure HD Pak or HBO/SHO, but there are more DD programs in HD on network (and certainly more being recorded and watched) than on other sat HD channels. None of that is definitive, but it points to DD being connected somehow.

It also makes sense that there would be more reports during HD programming than upconverted non-HD programming, since that is what we bought the HR10s for in the first place, and that is primarily what we all watch. So on the other hand, maybe DD is not the key.

88 is NYC FOX OTA originally, or at least the ".1" streams parsed out of that OTA channel and backhauled, presumably on fiber, to the uplink center, then formatted as DVB-s, I believe, for the DBS path. But the demuxing and DVB formatting shouldn't really disturb the integrity of those streams, unless you count the bit ceiling limiting done in statmux. IOW, it is received at the STB, is demodulated, possibly demuxed, then written to the HDD, read from the HDD, and decoded. The decoding is where the hiccup happens, pretty obviously, but by that point I don't think there is anything fundamentally different from the MPEG files read from the HDD that are from true OTA recordings.

There have been issues with the Terayon splicer causing regular hiccups only on certain tuners in the past, even in local programming, and we've seen something similar regarding the splicer that makes the exciter at our transmitter itself hiccup in a disturbingly similar fashion. The software up rev to the splicer a few months ago was supposed to fix all of that, and apparently it has. But it would not surprise me that this could be a similar type of issue, although not exclusive to the Terayon splicer, which is rarely used by other net affils.

By "out of line" do you mean an internal bypass or an external bypass? Do you know if your mux is after the splicer, or before? (I know we changed this at one point, but I'm not sure anymore). I think it has to be after to add PSIP properly, but again, I can't quite remember.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

Ty it is my friend ...

I thought you would find this interesting -- I know I did. The whole thing came about when I got to thinking what is common with all FOX affiliates -- the splicer was the only thing.

Here's how I conducted the test. I sat and home and watched for about an hour -- I was getting the classic 8-10 second audio dropout, followed by brief breakup and the return of audio, about once every five minutes. I called into the station and had them put the splicer into external bypass. Kept watching -- for a full hour -- no more dropouts. Called back and had them take it out of bypass -- dropouts returned in less than two minutes.

At the same time, I was recording the channel on my other machine, which was still running 3.1.5f -- checking that back, there were zero dropouts.

Clearly, there is something different about the bitstream with the splicer bypassed versus when it's inline. But exactly what, and why does it upset 6.3? Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be exclusive to the splicer, as people are reporting this on other stations, though with less frequency. It could come down to a particular piece of gear those stations are using, hence the random nature. With FOX, we have found one thing that seems to be contributing the problem, and ALL FOX stations have the same box. That at least explains why there are more complaints about FOX (by far) than any other network.

As you say though, it would be helpful for people to report if they are hearing the dropouts during local programming -- I'm willing to bet they are. You might also be interested to know that I found the dropouts also affected the programming on the subchannnel. That should be a pretty good clue as to what it going on, but I don't know enough about how all this works to make any sense of it.

About your question about the location of the mux, but I will check and get back to you on that. 

Last chapter of the story: I wiped my TiVo drive and restored it back to 3.1.5f. Nary a dropout has been heard since ...


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## temp357 (Feb 18, 2004)

I am getting the dropouts on prerecorded content that i know doesn't have dropouts and only on hdtv content. I played the same item back and the dropouts were not the same time/sentence as before. Seems like a audio decoding issue to me...


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

videojanitor said:


> Mr. Shoes ... I don't think it really is connected to DD, by which I presume you mean 5.1. The FOX station I work for doesn't send 5.1 during local programming, yet I experienced the dropouts every five minutes or so even then.
> 
> If you missed it, in an earlier post, I detailed an experiment where we took the FOX splicer out of the line during local programming, and that eliminated the problem. Technically the splicer shouldn't have been doing much, except passing the local stream, but obviously it is adding something to the data stream that 6.3 doesn't like.
> 
> As for why people aren't having problems with Ch. 88, perhaps it is because that isn't an ATSC stream?? Aren't those sent as DVB or some similar scheme?


I was watching a 15 year old episode of Cops tonight on Fox ota and had 3 separate 8-10 second audio dropouts in one 30 minute episode. I could be wrong but I don't think a program made in 1991 would have DD.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

kbohip said:


> I was watching a 15 year old episode of Cops tonight on Fox ota and had 3 separate 8-10 second audio dropouts in one 30 minute episode. I could be wrong but I don't think a program made in 1991 would have DD.


I just researched this to answer a question in another thread. If you're watching an HDTV channel, your audio is being transported as AC-3 (aka Dolby Digital), period. Whether it's 2.0 or 5.1 channel of sounds is another question. Most people, including myself at times, mistakenly equate Dolby Digital with 5.1 channels of sound at all times.

/steve


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## lordbah (Apr 19, 2003)

Had my first experience with the audio dropouts last night (but then I only got 6.3a Friday). As others have noted, each lasted about 8 seconds. This was while watching game 1 of the World Series live on Fox OTA 31.1 WUHFDT Rochester, NY. There was one occurrence right after the first pitch in the first inning. Then a few in the 4th inning. Then some later. The first was a single, the rest seemed to cluster, and they all seemed to be within 1-10 minutes after the hour, for whatever that's worth. I am using the Standard Audio setting.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

GadgetJunkies said:


> I called DTV complaining of the audio dropouts and after 40 mins on the phone with advanced tech support they came back and said to turn off my DD 5.1 in the settings menu. They then offered my HD package free for the next 4 months and Showtime free for 3 months. I asked about the HR20 and he said "you don't want that one, it has too many bugs right now". He said they are working to fix the audio dropout issue. BTW, since switching off the DD 5.1 I have had no audio dropouts.


Wow, so many things wrong with what the advanced tech told you here.
1. He/she should have just said, it's a known issue and there is no viable workaround at this time. Giving the customer false hope that turing DD off or enabling PCM is terrible.
2. Yes the HR20 is a work in progress, but I'm sure D* would be none to happy customers are being told "you don't want that one." He/she should have been honest and told you they are currently sold out of the HR20 at the moment.
3. Giving you the HD package and Showtime free for a couple months was a nice gesture, but it shouldn't have been at the expense of giving you false information.


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## bigmac94 (Mar 29, 2006)

Have just received the Upgrade for my 2nd HD10,The First HD10 is working Perfectly,with no Surround Hookup.
The 2nd HD10 Is having dropouts All Over the place However that was last night,This morning it is Better. 
The dropouts are related to the KTI Dish As all the dropouts happen with programs from it.
The dish is additional for High Def. & All local programing.
Now Have 4 Different HD Boxes & The only one affected is the One HD10 Connected To My Surround System & the last to get upgraded with 6a.


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## redram38 (Apr 17, 2004)

So far only Fox OTA is effected for me. I am getting it during national and local programming. I do not get the video glitch at the end of it. I have not gotten any drop outs on Fox 88.


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## tbb1226 (Sep 16, 2004)

videojanitor said:


> As you say though, it would be helpful for people to report if they are hearing the dropouts during local programming -- I'm willing to bet they are.


I've heard/seen it during local news on WJBK-DT in Detroit, with similar frequency of occurrence as during network programming.

I also have not experienced it on any other channel, OTA or DBS. And I watch a significant amount of ABC, NBC, and PBS OTA (CBS not so much).


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

kbohip said:


> I was watching a 15 year old episode of Cops tonight on Fox ota and had 3 separate 8-10 second audio dropouts in one 30 minute episode. I could be wrong but I don't think a program made in 1991 would have DD.


If you were watching an old episode of COPS, then it was a syndicated version that airs locally. And yes, it would not have a 5.1 audio. Even the new ones don't have 5.1, but it is "upmixed" and transported on a 5.1 stream.

That said, what "/steve" says is correct -- all audio from OTA stations is sent on an AC3 stream. It could be 2.0, 5.1, or whatever. Some stations send 5.1 all the time, while others only send it during network programming. Some folks have attributed this problem to 5.1 programming, but there's enough evidence to debunk that.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

tbb1226 said:


> I've heard/seen it during local news on WJBK-DT in Detroit, with similar frequency of occurrence as during network programming.


Thanks for the report. That is my exact experience here in Sacramento.


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## bmw528is (Sep 30, 2006)

I've had several audio droputs, almost daily since the 6.3 update. Wishful thinking on my part that maybe I wouldn't be affected. 

I called DirecTV to ask about the audio issues and they told me to "check my cables". Wow..........they call that tech support? She said she hasn't heard anything about the upgrade causing any problems at all.

I can't complain too much. When I asked about some of the HD channels being taken off the air for the Sunday Ticket HD games, she apologized for the inconvenience and offered me 6 months credit for my HD package for my trouble. I said, "OK that's great, thank you", hung up and went back to watching FOX OTA with bad sound and a $60 credit. Oh well.........


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## Bob Violence (Feb 2, 2003)

Got 6.3a about 4 days ago, and had not noticed any audio drops.

However, today (Sunday) I watched quite a bit of football on FOX OTA in HD w/DD, and was getting the same drops previously mentioned (about 8 seconds of no audio, and when it returns, there is a slight video hiccup). I can rewind the show, and the results are the same.

For what it's worth:

Never had audio drops of any significance prior to 6.3a. Tivo is set to record DD and output as such when available. Tivo is hooked to Onkyo receiver w/optical cable (obviously).

The intro to the World Series is on right now, and one of the audio drops just muted most of John Mellancamp, so I can't say I'm TOTALLY unhappy with them.


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## henryld (Aug 16, 2005)

Bob Violence said:


> Got 6.3a about 4 days ago, and had not noticed any audio drops.
> 
> However, today (Sunday) I watched quite a bit of football on FOX OTA in HD w/DD, and was getting the same drops previously mentioned (about 8 seconds of no audio, and when it returns, there is a slight video hiccup). I can rewind the show, and the results are the same.
> 
> ...


Did not see that here in Friendswood. In fact I have watched, as you have, football all afternoon and had only one drop out.


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## noahsd (Nov 16, 2005)

FYI, I cannot pick up Fox OTA and yet I get audio drop outs a couple of times an hour. So while Fox OTA might be getting most of the press on this thread, the audio drops are not specific to that station. Generally, I watch CBS OTA, ABC OTA, and NBC SAT. I haven't noticed if it is an OTA only issue. Is that the current idea? And yes, I have the 6.3a upgrade.

Oh, and THANK YOU for this thread. I was about to start pulling cables, adjusting the antenna, and who knows what else to try and "fix" the audio dropouts. I thought it was a low signal issue. Dodged a bullet there, friends.


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## Russelle (Oct 2, 2006)

I am getting 7 to 8 seconds about every 30 seconds.... OTA Fox...


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

Got the same audio drops on OTA Fox this afternoon watching the game then switched to SD feed and had none.


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## noahsd (Nov 16, 2005)

noahsd said:


> FYI, I cannot pick up Fox OTA and yet I get audio drop outs a couple of times an hour. So while Fox OTA might be getting most of the press on this thread, the audio drops are not specific to that station. Generally, I watch CBS OTA, ABC OTA, and NBC SAT. I haven't noticed if it is an OTA only issue. Is that the current idea? And yes, I have the 6.3a upgrade.
> 
> Oh, and THANK YOU for this thread. I was about to start pulling cables, adjusting the antenna, and who knows what else to try and "fix" the audio dropouts. I thought it was a low signal issue. Dodged a bullet there, friends.


Update: I just ran a little experiment. I put CBS HD OTA on one tuner and CBS SD (Sat) on the other. I watched the CBS OTA until I experienced an audio drop (15 sec followed by a quick pixelation of the picture). I then checked the other tuner and found it didn't have the audio drop. For you guys who know the tech side of things, I hope that helps.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

sluciani said:


> I just researched this to answer a question in another thread. If you're watching an HDTV channel, your audio is being transported as AC-3 (aka Dolby Digital), period. Whether it's 2.0 or 5.1 channel of sounds is another question. Most people, including myself at times, mistakenly equate Dolby Digital with 5.1 channels of sound at all times.
> 
> /steve


Right you are, steve, at least almost right. AC-3 is the audio compression encoding used by ATSC. Dolby Digital uses the same algorithm, but there are parameters that make DD a subset of the AC-3 algorithm. IOW, DD is slightly more technically sophisticated, and has more stringent requirements from an applications point of view. 5.1 and 2.0 are both subsets of DD, and DD 2.0 is very close, technically, to AC-3 as employed in ATSC.

I think what we were driving at was that many stations in larger markets have installed equipment to pass 5.1, and many in smaller markets have not, and all FOX stations pass 5.1. We were searching for a correlation there, but I think VJ's splicer experiment has pushed us in a better direction.

Thanks to VJ and others, we now know that even sub channels in non-net programming suffer the dropout problem.

Now, we need to get reports of regular sat channels displaying the problem (or not). 

And thanks, VJ, for the splicer experiment. I would contact FOX's digitalrollout.com with your findings, if I were you. I'm sure they will find that interesting.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> And thanks, VJ, for the splicer experiment. I would contact FOX's digitalrollout.com with your findings, if I were you. I'm sure they will find that interesting.


I've gone higher than that.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> Now, we need to get reports of regular sat channels displaying the problem (or not).


That's already been established. If you read through the original audio dropout thread you will see many of us have reported seeing this on the Sat channels. I've noticed it on ESPN HD and the CBS NY (80) feend.


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## rod456 (Oct 23, 2006)

Yes, I have had it happen with Sat channels, I do not have OTA HD. I have noticed on all of the HD channels at one time or another. ESHP HD, FOX HD, NBC HD, etc. All with the same simptoms as OTA. Audio dropout with pixelation before the audio comes back. I have even had the audio get into a continuous loop of dropouts that didn't stop. The only way to stop it was to change the channel and come back. It happened quite often yesterday watching NASCAR on NBC HD and last night watching World Series on Fox HD. All my HD feeds are East coast.

And yes it does get annoying. I wish I would have pulled my telephone cable as well.

Hopefully they will get it fixed and D* won't make us live with this, otherwise I might just go all cable if this keeps up.

Rod


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## DLR (Sep 17, 2002)

The unit in our family room has lost the audio on FOX (World Series), ABC (Lost) and CBS (Two and a Half Men). The box is hooked to the TV via the old RCA analog inputs, not DD.


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## IdaTex (Oct 23, 2006)

I just got upgraded to 6.3a last week and then ran across threads describing the audio dropout issue. I have only noticed it on Fox. I had 6.3a last week when I recorded some NBC shows and no problem. I also didn't notice it on Lost but I don't think I was upgraded yet.

I also have the HD Sunday Ticket. When I was watching the local OTA version of the Panthers-Bengals on Fox I got about a 10 second dropout within 10 minutes of game time. I switched over to the Sunday Ticket HD feed of the game and did not have any dropouts at all. When I was watching the baseball game last night I noticed a couple more.

I had also been having a lot of problems with dropouts (video and audio) on ESPN but haven't noticed it all since the upgrade. I will be glued on ESPN tonight for the game so I will report back on the performance.

From what I can tell, the issue is only with OTA now.


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

videojanitor said:


> ................
> 
> As for why people aren't having problems with Ch. 88, perhaps it is because that isn't an ATSC stream?? Aren't those sent as DVB or some similar scheme?


Survey says...

I _am_ getting dropouts on HD/DD pgms on Fox 88, that go away when 'DD to PCM' is enabled. I am connected via toslink to a Denon 3801. I got 6.3a Sat. night/Sun. morning.

I am pi$$ed...


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

Mr. Bill said:


> Survey says...
> 
> I _am_ getting dropouts on HD/DD pgms on Fox 88, that go away when 'DD to PCM' is enabled. I am connected via toslink to a Denon 3801. I got 6.3a Sat. night/Sun. morning.
> 
> I am pi$$ed...


Are these the "new and improved" 6.3 dropouts (i.e., 8-10 seconds of no audio, then brief video pixellation)?


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

bwaldron said:


> Are these the "new and improved" 6.3 dropouts (i.e., 8-10 seconds of no audio, then brief video pixellation)?


There is no pixellation. They are brief audio dropouts.

I was clean and fine prior to 6.3a.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

I think what bwaldron meant were the old dropouts we all got under 3.15f now and then. 1 second or less audio dropouts.

The ones we are talking about now are 8-10 second dropouts, a phenomenon unique to 6.3. They are not always accompanied by pixelization before sound is restored (at least mine aren't), but are definitely many seconds in length. The DD to PCM has no effect on these.

/steve


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## whsbuss (Dec 16, 2002)

sluciani said:


> I think what bwaldron meant were the old dropouts we all got under 3.15f now and then. 1 second or less audio dropouts.
> 
> The ones we are talking about now are 8-10 second dropouts, a phenomenon unique to 6.3. They are not always accompanied by pixelization before sound is restored (at least mine aren't), but are definitely many seconds in length. The DD to PCM has no effect on these.
> 
> /steve


I totally agree. Audio settings have absolutely no affect on the dropouts.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

EMoMoney said:


> That's already been established. If you read through the original audio dropout thread you will see many of us have reported seeing this on the Sat channels. I've noticed it on ESPN HD and the CBS NY (80) feend.


I probably should have been more specific.

What I would like to know is if the problem exists for non-HD sat channels. Since we seem to be doing Tivo's troubleshooting for them, maybe that would help. No or very few such reports would rule out whatever makes them different from HD channels, which could help point them in the right direction. Apparently they need all of the help we can give them.


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> I probably should have been more specific.
> 
> What I would like to know is if the problem exists for non-HD sat channels. Since we seem to be doing Tivo's troubleshooting for them, maybe that would help. No or very few such reports would rule out whatever makes them different from HD channels, which could help point them in the right direction. Apparently they need all of the help we can give them.


Well I'm not sure they know just what to do. Their "fix" is sending me out a 3.1 ver. HR10 that should be here in a couple days. I'm unplugging my phone line.


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## rod456 (Oct 23, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> I probably should have been more specific.
> 
> What I would like to know is if the problem exists for non-HD sat channels. Since we seem to be doing Tivo's troubleshooting for them, maybe that would help. No or very few such reports would rule out whatever makes them different from HD channels, which could help point them in the right direction. Apparently they need all of the help we can give them.


I have not had problems with non HD Sat channels. But, I have not watched SD with Dolby Digital either. Could be DD related as well.


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## Mr. Bill (Jan 18, 2006)

sluciani said:


> I think what bwaldron meant were the old dropouts we all got under 3.15f now and then. 1 second or less audio dropouts.
> 
> The ones we are talking about now are 8-10 second dropouts, a phenomenon unique to 6.3. They are not always accompanied by pixelization before sound is restored (at least mine aren't), but are definitely many seconds in length. The DD to PCM has no effect on these.
> 
> /steve


OK... I see.

Well, I do not have anything remotely like an audio dropout of 8-10 sec.... not even 5 sec. Mine are brief, only on HD broadcasts, only on Fox 88 (I can't get Fox local OTA) and they are less than 1/2 sec. And I also have an annoying buzz when changing from HD to HD -- OTA and D* -- from the receiver.

PCM removes it all.

And I NEVER had any dropouts of any kind before 6.3a, on HD or SD, nor on D* or OTA permutations of all, while on DD.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

Had 9 dropouts tonight during Prison Break (OTA). All were at least 10 seconds each.


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## pdawg17 (Mar 1, 2003)

Last Prison Break I had numerous dropouts as well...I recently went back to 3.1.5f and tonight had ZERO dropouts...coincidence? I think not...


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

I think we need to be clear on at least two problems being reported here.

The "new" 6.3 audio dropouts are typically 8-10 seconds long and when the audio is restored there is often some kind of stutter or pixelation of the video for many folks. While these are frequently reported on FOX OTA channels, they have also been reported on other channels in some localities. Maybe some of those other stations have some equipment common to what is used in the FOX standard configuration. Rewind and playback reveals that the recorded signal has the audio glitch, and it repeats itself every time in the same place.

There has been a pre-6.3 audio dropout problem for many folks, but these tend to last 2 seconds or less. There does not seem to be any related video disruption. These are often reported as not recorded, since rewind and playback shows the audio is there on the second pass. This seems to affect many or all HD channels.

I have examples of the two problems listed above, happening respectively with my 6.3 and 3.1 HD TiVos.

Lately I have seen yet another problem that seems to be limited to CBS network HD programming only. These are split second "hits" affecting both audio and video at the same time. Rewind and playback shows that the problem is recorded and repeats itself in the same place every time. I have seen this regularly on my 3.1 machine. I have not watched the 6.3 machine enough to see whether the problem is also there or not (primarily my wife's HD TiVo). 

My wife does watch 60-80% non-HD satellite programming (not LIL's) and she has not heard any audio dropouts on those channels on the 6.3 machine. But we have definitely had the 6.3 HD audio dropouts regularly on that 6.3 machine.

I am starting to believe that these are three separate and distinct problems.


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## EricRobins (Dec 31, 2001)

I don't understand. What is DirecTV doing about this??? 

Switching DD off is not an option. Many of us paid $1000 or more for our receivers, and before 6.3a, everything worked. Yeah, it was slow, BUT IT WORKED!! While switching off DD might actually make programs watchable, thats not what I bought the receiver for, THATS NOT WHAT THE RECEIVER WAS ADVERSTISED FOR!

Programming credits are nice, BUT I JUST WANT THE IU*&((*&)&ing thing to work right. Is that too much to ask?


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

Mr. Bill said:


> OK... I see.
> 
> Well, I do not have anything remotely like an audio dropout of 8-10 sec.... not even 5 sec. Mine are brief, only on HD broadcasts, only on Fox 88 (I can't get Fox local OTA) and they are less than 1/2 sec. And I also have an annoying buzz when changing from HD to HD -- OTA and D* -- from the receiver.
> 
> ...


The long 6.3a dropouts are only OTA-related. The brief droputs you're getting on Sat 88 are "normal" as far as I know. They've been around since day 1 of the HR10 and are generally unnoticeable to me, if I'm engrossed in the show I'm watching. /steve


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

EricRobins said:


> I don't understand. What is DirecTV doing about this???
> 
> Switching DD off is not an option. Many of us paid $1000 or more for our receivers, and before 6.3a, everything worked. Yeah, it was slow, BUT IT WORKED!! While switching off DD might actually make programs watchable, thats not what I bought the receiver for, THATS NOT WHAT THE RECEIVER WAS ADVERSTISED FOR!
> 
> Programming credits are nice, BUT I JUST WANT THE IU*&((*&)&ing thing to work right. Is that too much to ask?


I guess it bears repeating. Switching DD off will not mask this problem.


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## RoyGBiv (Apr 26, 2004)

I have had dropouts on Fox and occasionally the ABC affiliate from Boston. Last night, though, for the first time, I had a dropout on PBS from Boston while watching a recording of This Old House. Exact same pattern. No audio for 10 seconds, and momentary pixellation when the audio came back on. I am not aware of others seeing this on PBS before.


SMK


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## say-what (Oct 24, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> It appears to be connected to DD, which can be one reason FOX is reported more often having this issue than other stations, as FOX stations in virtually all markets pass DD during sports and prime, which is not the case for some of the other network affils, especially in smaller markets. Don't be too surprised if 88, which is FOX NYC, eventually shows the problem as well. As you say, you can see the problem 2 seconds after tuning in. But you can also watch for days without seeing it, on the same channel.


Same problem in New Orleans with my OTA FOX. Other OTA's and D*HD are fine, just OTA FOX....


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## chris_h (Dec 17, 2003)

sluciani said:


> The long 6.3a dropouts are only OTA-related. /steve


I disagree. The dropouts are more prevalent on OTA channels, especially fox. However, they have been reported on other D* HD channels in the main dropouts thread, by multiple users, and have the same "8 seconds audio missing from recording, video glitch at the end" characteristic.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

chris_h said:


> I disagree. The dropouts are more prevalent on OTA channels, especially fox. However, they have been reported on other D* HD channels in the main dropouts thread, by multiple users, and have the same "8 seconds audio missing from recording, video glitch at the end" characteristic.


If that's the case, I stand corrected. But a quick scan of the other threads indicate many report dropouts on ABC and FOX, but they do not specify whether OTA or D*. I now have all four of my HR10's updated to 6.3a and have only experienced the droupouts on OTA channels, so far.

As a result, I'm now only recording CW, WB and PBS via OTA. I used to record NBC, FOX, ABC and CBS via OTA with 3.15f for the theoretical advantage in picture quality, but the difference is so subtle that I don't mind switching back to D* for those networks.

/steve


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## buckeyenut (Apr 1, 2004)

Mike Lang said:


> Had 9 dropouts tonight during Prison Break (OTA). All were at least 10 seconds each.


Same here. Just received the update on Sunday morning. Noticed the drop outs during the early FOX (OTA) NFL game (10 seconds and then video distortion at the end) and again, as mentioned, during Prison Break.

The odd thing--in both occasions--was that it started at the beginning of each broadcast and stopped for the remainder, about 15 minutes into them.

No problems yet noticed on any other channel OTA.


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## epeters (Jun 17, 2003)

buckeyenut said:


> Same here. Just received the update on Sunday morning. Noticed the drop outs during the early FOX (OTA) NFL game (10 seconds and then video distortion at the end) and again, as mentioned, during Prison Break.
> 
> The odd thing--in both occasions--was that it started at the beginning of each broadcast and stopped for the remainder, about 15 minutes into them.
> 
> No problems yet noticed on any other channel OTA.


I've got it too. Prison Break (OTA) was a disaster. At least 15 eight to ten second dropouts with the described pixellation stutter upon return of the sound. Had it during the Mets Cardinals playoff as well as the world series. Haven't noticed the problem elsewhere.

I find it shocking that DTV hasn't made any statement about this considering the number of people who have complained. Wouldn't it be logical for them to reseed the older software until they can get this one right?

Eric
Tucson, AZ


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## SHOMan (Jun 2, 2005)

TyroneShoes said:


> Right you are, steve, at least almost right. AC-3 is the audio compression encoding used by ATSC. Dolby Digital uses the same algorithm, but there are parameters that make DD a subset of the AC-3 algorithm. IOW, DD is slightly more technically sophisticated, and has more stringent requirements from an applications point of view. 5.1 and 2.0 are both subsets of DD, and DD 2.0 is very close, technically, to AC-3 as employed in ATSC.


TyroneShoes, not sure you are correct here. AC-3 is the original name given to Dolby Digital by Dolby Labs. It was developed long before ATSC television was available. I am not saying that ATSC audio specs don't include AC-3. I have a bunch of 5.1 AC-3 laser discs that prove my point. The name change was for marketing reasons.

What are the parameters that DD a subset of the AC-3 algorithm? How is DD slightly more technically sophisticated, and what are the more stringent app requirements?


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## SHOMan (Jun 2, 2005)

EricRobins said:


> I don't understand. What is DirecTV doing about this???
> 
> Switching DD off is not an option. Many of us paid $1000 or more for our receivers, and before 6.3a, everything worked. Yeah, it was slow, BUT IT WORKED!! While switching off DD might actually make programs watchable, thats not what I bought the receiver for, THATS NOT WHAT THE RECEIVER WAS ADVERSTISED FOR!
> 
> Programming credits are nice, BUT I JUST WANT THE IU*&((*&)&ing thing to work right. Is that too much to ask?


Nobody seems to have any real info with respect to what D* is doing about this. If they can't get the word out to their CSRs, you can imagine the problems they might have coming to a consensus about this issue and work with TIVO to resolve it.

Actually, my receiver has had DD audio problems since day 1, and I have had three replacements before D* admited the HR-10 was to blame. 6.3 fixed something that was wrong with DD audio and certain audio receivers. Many of us with these receivers were getting a loud static pop and then loss of audio under various conditions. The "fix" was to cycle inputs on our audio gear to restore the audio, or record in PCM only. The problem was the way the HR-10 was switching from PCM to DD, specifically a matter of timing.

Many of us complained, wrote to the office of the president, etc. I had engineer finally call me and we had an hour long debugging session which ended in him saying he was convinced it was the HR-10 and would escalate it to TIVO. That was 16 months ago. It just now got "fixed". It also looks like the "fix" actually shifted the problem to some receivers that were not experiencing the problem. We knew from the people reporting that not all DD audio receivers handle a changing bitstream the same. Hence, you now have the static/pop issue.

The point here is that for me, the receiver has not been acting correctly since DAY 1, and apparently it was too much to ask for them to fix it. Now they have fixed it, but in doing so, they broke it somewhere else. I feel your pain and all I can say is get used to it, because they don't seem to be handling this problem any better than the static/pop issue. Despite the fact that far more subscribers are being affected.


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## SHOMan (Jun 2, 2005)

Here are the DD audio issues I have experienced on both software versions

3.1.5f

1. Loud static pop noise when switching from PCM (menus) to DD programs, played back or live. 

2. Occasional two second or less DD dropouts with no pixelation. Only with HD source material. No pattern of OTA vs SAT. Random and not really very bothersome.

6.3a

1. Loud static pop now fixed in most situations, EXCEPT for moving from Now Playing list to live TV.

2. The ~8 second DD dropout followed by some slight pixelation. If recorded, dropout occurs in same place every time. So far, only had this on CBS OTA. Haven't watched much Fox OTA, but with 24 coming, I am concerned.

Question: 

For those of you how have tried the PCM work-around, have you enabled "record DD to PCM" as well as "Output in PCM"? It seems that a lot of folks are just changing the output type.


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## Cody21 (Jan 11, 2004)

Does anyone have a phone nuber that expedites to the Technical group at D* ? I want to call to report this but don't really want to experience a 40 minute discussion with Level 1.


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## thebishman (Aug 20, 2005)

Cody21 said:


> Does anyone have a phone nuber that expedites to the Technical group at D* ? I want to call to report this but don't really want to experience a 40 minute discussion with Level 1.


Directv told me this:

"To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance"

Not sure if this is what you wanted, sorry.
Bish


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## epeters (Jun 17, 2003)

Reply to my email from DTV:


Thanks for writing. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having with your HR10 250 receiver. To fix the problem, please follow these steps:

1. Go to DIRECTV Central
2. Message and Settings
3. Settings
4. Audio
5. Dolby Digital (Select No, record standard audio). This will make the receiver record with Dolby off.
6. Select Digital output. Then Choose "Dolby digital to PCM" (not Dolby Digital). This will make live TV audio work.

Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives if the above procedure does not work. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Moving forward, please be advised that you are important to us and we certainly want to keep you as a customer. A service specialist will call you in the next few days to discuss what we can do to meet your needs.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Here are the DD audio issues I have experienced on both software versions
> 
> 3.1.5f
> 
> ...


I would suspect the issues you're having with the static pops are more of an incompatibility with your receiver or preamp/processor than with the HDTivo. I had an issue with my B&K Reference 30 Pre/Pro when I first got my HDTivo and it turned out that I needed a firmware upgrade to the B&K to make it work.

Changing the DD to PCM is a lame fix and something we should not have to do in order for our HDTivos to function properly. That's like telling your mechanic that your car only works when driving in reverse and having the response that you should now drive in reverse all the time to get around the problem. I'm rolling my HDTivos back to 3.1.5f until DTV and Tivo figure out how to get 6.3x working the way it should.


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## epeters (Jun 17, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> I'm rolling my HDTivos back to 3.1.5f until DTV and Tivo figure out how to get 6.3x working the way it should.


How? I'm assuming this is not a simple process.

Eric


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## smimi10 (May 11, 2006)

epeters said:


> 1. Go to DIRECTV Central
> 2. Message and Settings
> 3. Settings
> 4. Audio
> ...


Funny. I've done all these things, and still get the 8-10 second FOX OTA drop-outs. I don't use an A/V receiver, just a plasma flatscreen attached via HDMI.

I also got the same response back from DirecTV when I emailed them.

Mike


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

smimi10 said:


> I also got the same response back from DirecTV when I emailed them.


Me too, even when I sent them detailed information, told them I had FIXED the problem by wiping the drive and reverting to 3.1, and begged them NOT to send me a boilerplate response. I wonder if a human really reads this stuff?


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## SHOMan (Jun 2, 2005)

mr.unnatural said:


> I would suspect the issues you're having with the static pops are more of an incompatibility with your receiver or preamp/processor than with the HDTivo. I had an issue with my B&K Reference 30 Pre/Pro when I first got my HDTivo and it turned out that I needed a firmware upgrade to the B&K to make it work.


Correct. When the static/pop bru-ha-ha was going on, we had someone post that B&K had corrected the issue on the audio receiver side by fixing the firmware, which introduced a slight delay when a stream change was detected and gave the receiver (pre-amp) a little time (milliseconds) to determine stream type. There was a lot of debate about whether or not the "incompatibility" was the fault of the HR-10. My problem has been corrected (95%) by 6.3a, but yet others are now reporting the static/pop for the first time. It looks like there was more than one way audio gear manufacturers handled digital stream changes. B&K responded very quickly, and AFAIK, they were the only vendor to make such a change.

FWIW, the HR-10 was the only piece of equipment I own that made my audio receiver do this. Switching back and forth DD to PCM audio on DVDs (such as a concert DVD that usually have PCM tracks) never created a problem. Nor did my R-10s (not hi-def, but can record and playback DD). I still blame it on the HR-10, and the fact that my static pops are gone with 6.3a cements it for me.

TIVO needs to devote more resources to QUALITY ASSURANCE.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

epeters said:


> How? I'm assuming this is not a simple process.


Correct -- not that simple. It involves pulling your TiVo drive out of the machine and putting in a PC for starters. Then you use some Linux tools (freely available) to restore an image of the previous software. That assumes of course that you made a backup of the drive BEFORE 6.3 was installed.


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## epeters (Jun 17, 2003)

smimi10 said:


> Funny. I've done all these things, and still get the 8-10 second FOX OTA drop-outs. I don't use an A/V receiver, just a plasma flatscreen attached via HDMI.
> 
> I also got the same response back from DirecTV when I emailed them.
> 
> Mike


Painful... I've got two plasmas; one hooked up through an AV receiver and the other directly via HDMI. They both have the same dropouts. This is serious...I'm going to end up divorced over this  If not for Prison Break...definitely for 24 when it returns.

Eric


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## Vin (Jun 13, 2003)

epeters said:


> This is serious...I'm going to end up divorced over this  If not for Prison Break...definitely for 24 when it returns.
> 
> Eric


Like they say, every cloud has a silver lining.  If you really want to add insult to injury, tell her she can have the HR10-250s in the divorce settlement!

All kidding aside, Prison Break OTA had several audio dropouts on my HR10-250 (with 6.3a) last night too. Good thing my wife has the show recorded on her RCA DVR-40....or else!


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## SoonerDoc (Sep 2, 2002)

i am watching the world series right now and had two of the audio drops in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast. i have dolby set to off and the other setting to PCM. this obviously *DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE*.

this is freakin' ridiculous. do they test these frickin' software upgrades before they send them out? how could nobody have reported this???


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## DolphinGirl (May 29, 2005)

Has anyone checked if the audio dropouts are at the same time and/or channel for everyone? Or is it unique for each receiver?


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

DolphinGirl said:


> Has anyone checked if the audio dropouts are at the same time and/or channel for everyone? Or is it unique for each receiver?


I too got the dropouts on Prison Break OTA HD that others have posted about, although mine were towards the tail end of the show and not at the beginning as some have posted.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

DolphinGirl said:


> Has anyone checked if the audio dropouts are at the same time and/or channel for everyone? Or is it unique for each receiver?


Yep, we did that test during a couple of the baseball games. It occurs on a random basis with each receiver.


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## blucas95 (Sep 23, 2006)

Mike Lang said:


> Had 9 dropouts tonight during Prison Break (OTA). All were at least 10 seconds each.


That's too funny (not really)... I'm in Northern VA and get the DC locals OTA. I had NO drop-outs (not one) during Prison Break, but then during Justice (immediately afterwards) I had at least 2 lasting 10 seconds each in the first couple of minutes and then two more about 30 minutes in. That was as far as I got before the wife made me shut it off since we couldn't figure out what was going on. Thank god for Bit Torrent! 

I've got an HR20 that has been working fine on my second HD set and I have a second that I haven't put in the HR10's place yet, but it this keeps up, the HR-10 is going on eBay, even if the HR-20 still has a few fleas.


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## KevMadison (Oct 25, 2006)

It couldn't possibly be THIS easy...

I just got the 6.3a upgrade today and immediately started getting the FOX OTA audio dropout problem (long dropouts, dolby digital passthrough).

I watched a bit of the ball game, had three dropouts in an hour.

Then, I checked my channel guide and saw an OTA channel was missing, so I did a re-scan of local OTA channels to add the missing one.

I've watched 2 hours of the game since and haven't had a single dropout.

I know it hasn't been long enough to be sure, but at least it's an idea...

-Kev

HR10-250 6.3a DD, Local Channels OTA


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

videojanitor said:


> Correct -- not that simple. It involves pulling your TiVo drive out of the machine and putting in a PC for starters. Then you use some Linux tools (freely available) to restore an image of the previous software. That assumes of course that you made a backup of the drive BEFORE 6.3 was installed.


Or if you didn't make a backup you could just Instantcake it. Much easier and faster and you can probably get Directv to pay the $20 for you if you complain enough.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Vin said:


> Like they say, every cloud has a silver lining.  If you really want to add insult to injury, tell her she can have the HR10-250s in the divorce settlement!
> 
> All kidding aside, Prison Break OTA had several audio dropouts on my HR10-250 (with 6.3a) last night too. Good thing my wife has the show recorded on her RCA DVR-40....or else!


Ha! My wife was upstairs watching Justice the other night and she felt it necessary to yell down to me every time there was an audio dropout. This happened 3 times in 8 minutes. She then commented that she was going to setup an SP for all her Fox shows on the downstairs R-10.


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## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

videojanitor said:


> Yep, we did that test during a couple of the baseball games. It occurs on a random basis with each receiver.


I'm also experianing this problem too..

I have a Monster cable light cord and anolog wires (A/V) hooked up to dvr to my old school Aiwa AV D-67 :up: and the reciever set to digital.. right now I have set on digital because the sound is more clear on lower volume settings.. Now the experiance. I call them hicups when this happens in a movie i hit the anolog button and it goes away.. Now so far this hicup only occurs when it's on 5.1 and when i take a look at the reciever info center the indicator moves to 5.1 to prologic couple times then stops then it happens again couple seconds later this all happens at the same time of the audio hiccups

Just out of curiosity do you guys know when your getting a 5.1 signal (dolby digital) ?
I want to know if this happens only on 5.1 audio channels


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## luder (Sep 7, 2006)

videojanitor said:


> If you were watching an old episode of COPS, then it was a syndicated version that airs locally. And yes, it would not have a 5.1 audio. Even the new ones don't have 5.1, but it is "upmixed" and transported on a 5.1 stream.
> 
> That said, what "/steve" says is correct -- all audio from OTA stations is sent on an AC3 stream. It could be 2.0, 5.1, or whatever. Some stations send 5.1 all the time, while others only send it during network programming. Some folks have attributed this problem to 5.1 programming, but there's enough evidence to debunk that.


I agree that ac3 is for prologic receivers to help few people save money on dolby digital receivers and your right on how the sound comes out of the speakers it could be in the front it could be all five speakers and does ultimately depends on the movie (show) and sometimes how DTV sends there signals in certin channels..

and for the debunking you will find above this post


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> How? I'm assuming this is not a simple process.


If you've been doing it as long as I have it is pretty simple, but only if you're set up for it. I learned long ago to back up everything I do to a Tivo. I've probably got a backup copy of every OS version released for the S1 and S2 DTivos and HDTivos. Whenever a new OS version is released I configure a Tivo with a stock drive to capture an unhacked image and then make a backup copy of it. I did that with 6.3 and 6.3a and installed it on all three of my HDTivos long before most people ever got the update naturally. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should ever have to purchase a backup image from PtvUpgrade if they'd just use a little common sense.

I had a backup image of 3.1.5f that I restored to my Tivos. The entire process takes about 10-15 minutes. That's total time involved to pull the cover off my HDTivo, pull the drives, install them in my PC, reimage the drives and run tpip (all of them are dual drive setups), install the Zipper script, and reinstall the drives in the HDTivos. Of course, I have a PC dedicated to working with Tivos sitting in my room with the HDTivos. I keep the side panel off of the PC case (mid-tower) for easy access and the covers on my HDTivos do not have the screws installed for quick removal. I've reimaged all of my Tivos dozens of times apiece over the years.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

I just spoke with a "Tier 2" and was told that my receiver did not take the software correctly and this was causing my problems (Audio dropout and random reboots). They want to send me out a new HR10-250 that has 6.3 installed correctly. Does this make sense to anyone? Has anyone else been told this?

She also told me that I do not want to get a HR20 because I would be more frustrated with it than the current problems with the HR10-250.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jeff


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## whsbuss (Dec 16, 2002)

jeffo13 said:


> I just spoke with a "Tier 2" and was told that my receiver did not take the software correctly and this was causing my problems (Audio dropout and random reboots). They want to send me out a new HR10-250 that has 6.3 installed correctly. Does this make sense to anyone? Has anyone else been told this?
> 
> She also told me that I do not want to get a HR20 because I would be more frustrated with it than the current problems with the HR10-250.
> 
> ...


Hey, I say have them send it. I'll bet the house audio dropouts will still plague the new unit.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

I think that is what I am going to do, I just need to catch up on some shows before I swap out.

I forgot the best part of the call. She told me that the audio dropout issue has been closed since 10-8. I asked her what this meant and she told me that they have not received any new calls regarding audio dropout since 10-8. I tried not to laugh.

Jeff


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

jeffo13 said:


> I think that is what I am going to do, I just need to catch up on some shows before I swap out.
> 
> I forgot the best part of the call. She told me that the audio dropout issue has been closed since 10-8. I asked her what this meant and she told me that they have not received any new calls regarding audio dropout since 10-8. I tried not to laugh.
> 
> Jeff


They need to check their log of my call on 10/22 when they said they ARE aware of the problems. Their answer for now was to send me out a new HR10 with the old software version. She also told me the same thing about the HR20.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

GadgetJunkies,

She told me that they could not send out an HR10-250 with the old software, that they all had 6.3 installed prior to shipping. It seems every call gets a different answer as usual.

Jeff


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## GadgetJunkies (Sep 8, 2002)

jeffo13 said:


> GadgetJunkies,
> 
> She told me that they could not send out an HR10-250 with the old software, that they all had 6.3 installed prior to shipping. It seems every call gets a different answer as usual.
> 
> Jeff


The FedEx guy just deliverd my "new" HR10 replacement. Have to wait for my wife to finish her recordings before I can hook it up and see what software version it has.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

I was told that you have 14 days to send the old unit back or you risk a "equipment not returned" charge. I was wondering if you had heard the same.

Let me know what version you have, I am very curious.

Jeff


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## 26point2 (Oct 30, 2006)

Good Morning,
Just registered here and thought I'd add my experience w/this 6.3a download. My first set of HR10's had the old s/w on them, earlier this month I got the 6.3a s/w and started getting the audio dropouts. I called DTV and talked w/their HD folks and was told to do a full system reboot (clears everything) and then set the DD output to PCM. I still had the audio dropouts. 

Last week I received two replacement HR10's that had the old s/w on them. No audio dropouts. This weekend I got the 6.3a download. Audio dropouts return. I called again (29Oct06) and was told to put the DD output to PCM. I told the guy that this was not good for two reasons:
1. It didn't work the last time.
2. Now my shows would not be in true DD5.1.
He agreed to both points and is sending me out two new units. I told him I would have the phone line hooked up for activation only and then would pull the plug. He (Jason) told me that is probably a good idea.

Jason, DTV employee, told me to read the message boards and DTV feedback site to see when they finally get a fix for this problem. He also told me flatout that the HR20's are a joke (his words, plus they are out of stock) and to hang on to the HR10's for as long as possible.

Good news is I'm collecting quite a few new remotes in all this as well as some back-up cables. In case you didn't know, if you send a receiver back you do not have to send the old remote or cables back, they just throw those away (Jason, DTV employee's words).

Good luck,
Craig


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

26point2 said:


> Good Morning,
> Just registered here and thought I'd add my experience w/this 6.3a download. My first set of HR10's had the old s/w on them, earlier this month I got the 6.3a s/w and started getting the audio dropouts. I called DTV and talked w/their HD folks and was told to do a full system reboot (clears everything) and then set the DD output to PCM. I still had the audio dropouts.
> 
> Last week I received two replacement HR10's that had the old s/w on them. No audio dropouts. This weekend I got the 6.3a download. Audio dropouts return. I called again (29Oct06) and was told to put the DD output to PCM. I told the guy that this was not good for two reasons:
> ...


I would definitely keep the phone line unplugged on a 3.1.5 unit.

Pretty unprofessional comment by the CSR re: their HR20.


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## nachosgrande (Oct 12, 2006)

26point2 said:


> Last week I received two replacement HR10's that had the old s/w on them. No audio dropouts. This weekend I got the 6.3a download. Audio dropouts return. I called again (29Oct06) and was told to put the DD output to PCM. I told the guy that this was not good for two reasons:
> 1. It didn't work the last time.
> 2. Now my shows would not be in true DD5.1


Can someone explain how DD to PCM is not true DD5.1?

I have mine setup as DD to PCM and it appears to be in 5.1 (options in menu state that DD to PCM is optimal if receiver does not have HDMI input)

Digital optical out from HR10 to my receiver (Yamaha Rx-v659).

No problems with audio.

Thanks.


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## steady teddy (May 15, 2004)

bwaldron said:


> Pretty unprofessional comment by the CSR re: their HR20.


Unprofessional or not, the man speaks the truth.


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## Cheezmo (Apr 26, 2004)

PCM is two channel stereo, like what is on a CD.

DD 5.1 is 6 discrete channels. If you convert DD 5.1 to PCM, you lose that. A Dolby Pro Logic decoder may reconstitute it somewhat, but it won't be nearly as good as the original.



nachosgrande said:


> Can someone explain how DD to PCM is not true DD5.1?
> 
> I have mine setup as DD to PCM and it appears to be in 5.1 (options in menu state that DD to PCM is optimal if receiver does not have HDMI input)
> 
> ...


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