# Lost 4/20/2010 The Last Recruit



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Two weeks. 

Awesome episode.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

OMG, is this the fastest hour on TV, or what? No sooner does LOST start, it seems like it's over. And leaves me wanting more. When this show ends, it's gonna feel like losing a good friend. Bittersweet and sad these final days are.

So, we got confirmation finally that MiB has been posing as dead people. Or at least, he admitted to being Christian Shepard. We kind of knew that, but it always feels good to actually have a character admit something.

You can feel the suspense building, although I still have no idea where this is going.

I have a hunch, though - Jack may have just gotten "Sayid'ed" there at the end. Jack may have died, and been claim-surr-ected by Flocke. Maybe?

I'm willing to bet Sayid didn't kill Desmond. But why, and how did it go down. For a minute, I thought that maybe Sayid wanted Flocke to go to the well, then Sayid would push Flocke into the well, being that (I think) Flocke has some sort of aversion towards water?

Seems like everyone is coming together in the hospital or lawyer's office. Ileana looked much more attractive in a suit. And everyone's consciousness seems to be clicking in in the "flash sideways"...maybe just in time to override their fates on the island?

Did anyone else think that Jin and Sun were going to run towards each other, through the sonic fence, and get zapped? And someone was going to shout, "Sorry! We haven't turned it off yet!"


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Sup wif Widmore's double cross? Not that he isn't more clever than my man Sawyer and sees thru his con.

Loved Hurley's comment about the dark side re: the Sayid zombie and Anakin.

Sayid did not kill Desmond. Great question by Des to Sayid.

Yah, I did think Jin and Sun were gonna get zapped. Glad the BS sidestory about her losing her English is over.

Can't wait till all the remaining oblivious LAX folks get synched up with their Island side. Oh wait. Guess I'll hafta wait. Bummah.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Yay! Sun and Jin are back together! 
Sawyer is still being a jerk/hardhead (but a cute one) and the group is still not communicating. I mean, geesh, if Jack felt that strongly about it that he was willing to jump off a boat, why wouldn't he feel strongly enough to tell any of the others. This has been a complaint since season one. They don't share information. So, LOST stays true to form.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Certainly set up an endgame where it's Jack & Locke together on the Island like Jacob and MiB.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

TiVotion said:


> Did anyone else think that Jin and Sun were going to run towards each other, through the sonic fence, and get zapped? And someone was going to shout, "Sorry! We haven't turned it off yet!"


I absolutely thought one of them was gonna get shot and then collapse into the other's arms... thank god they didn't go there because it would have been way too obvious. I think they knew people expected that too because that was shot/edited to make it seem like it would happen.

Good call on Jack possibly dying in that moment... it's possible. Where was Sayid when the bombs hit though, I didn't see him on the beach. I'm also wondering why Widmore decided to give the order to kill Sawyer, etc (or at least take them prisoner).

I think it's messed up that not only did Kate leave Claire after trying to find her, but JACK was down with doing it also... that's his damn sister. Glad she came to her senses. I'm ok with alliances going and back and forth but I really want the end game to be all of the original people (and Chesty) on the same side, working together.

I loved that Sun recognized Locke. They're all coming together WAY more rampantly than ever before; used to be an occasional bump into one another or maybe a line of passing dialogue. This episode was a massive cluster**** of interactions.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

So Locke survived being hit by a car. I wonder if Desmond knew the wheelchair would save his life.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Just realized something else. 

The episode title. "The Last Recruit". Who or what is that referring to? Jack?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> I have a hunch, though - Jack may have just gotten "Sayid'ed" there at the end. Jack may have died, and been claim-surr-ected by Flocke. Maybe?


I doubt it. Jack's too important. He has to play a role in the finale...real Jack, not Zombie Jack.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> ...The episode title. "The Last Recruit". Who or what is that referring to? Jack?


It has to be Jack. Nobody else makes sense. So, the last recruit? It seemed like Jack got "called back" by the Island. So is Jack the "Last Recruit" *of the Island*? Or maybe, more likely, the last one _*not to abandon the Island?*_

It would seem that Widmore thought that he had all of the "candidates" on Hydra Island now -- not knowing Jack wasn't among them. So do the "rules" say that if the candidates are off the Island, MIB-Smokey can be killed?

Typical Lost -- answer a few mysteries, and add a few more to the pile at the same time. I'll definitely miss this show.... :up:

Great to see Sun/Jin reunited, if only for a few seconds.

And I was very happy to see *Ilana *again -- she looks great in a suit (as well as in her Island gear). Her death last week really bothered me, so it was nice to see her still playing a part. I thought that she was going to end up being Peter's David's Mom, but tonight's episode ruled that out.


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## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

So if Flocke was Christian, how does that explain Jack seeing pops at the hospital??


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

michad said:


> So if Flocke was Christian, how does that explain Jack seeing pops at the hospital??


Jacob would be my guess.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

michad said:


> So if Flocke was Christian, how does that explain Jack seeing pops at the hospital??


Flocke can't leave the Island, but possibly he can project himself anywhere he wants (like Walt might be able to do as well).


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## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

See if I'm Jack, I'm asking "was that you at the hospital?". I was really hoping for a better story to Christian's appearances. But it was an acceptable answer.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Didn't we see Claire off the island too? Didn't she tell Kate not to bring Aaron to the island?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

vertigo235 said:


> Didn't we see Claire off the island too? Didn't she tell Kate not to bring Aaron to the island?


No that was a dream.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Hard to tell, maybe this whole thing is a dream!


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I think hospital christian was just Jack's imagination, same as Kate's vision of Claire. It could be attributed to whatever force draws them to the island. The one thing (one of the very few) that I've found annoying about Lost is the use of "the island wanted it that way" to explain plot movement. I respect the writers more than any other show on TV but there are some instances where you can tell they just do stuff because it's cool at the time, but has no real basis in anything, and the explanation is "the island did it". 

But I digress. I still laugh at my TV every time Flocke mentions flying that plane off the island. It's so completely retarded and most of the season has been built around that proposed end-game. I feel like there are almost no characters with a clear goal and an idea of how to acheive it. Sawyer wanted to get his people off the island, so he double crossed everyone involved... Flocke wants to fly a crashed commercial airliner off of a tiny airstrip, Jack doesn't know WTF he wants or is doing... The only people with clear goals were Sun and Kate (to find Jin and Claire), but even Kate abandoned her goal because Sawyer said so.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think the sides are being drawn up: Flocke's flock vs Jacob's believers. In the sideways world, Jacob's people are at the hospital, and Flocke's at the lawyer's office. I think Sayid will end up with Ilana as his lawyer. And I also think the tipping point will be the real Locke.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

TiVotion said:


> Did anyone else think that Jin and Sun were going to run towards each other, through the sonic fence, and get zapped? And someone was going to shout, "Sorry! We haven't turned it off yet!"


totally


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

DUDE_NJX said:


> totally


how sweet would it have been if they both blew up, ala dynamite lady from a few shows back


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Favorite line of the night was when Flocke told Jack "it's alright. You're with me now." Nice double meaning.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> I think the sides are being drawn up: Flocke's flock vs Jacob's believers. In the sideways world, Jacob's people are at the hospital, and Flocke's at the lawyer's office. I think Sayid will end up with Ilana as his lawyer. And I also think the tipping point will be the real Locke.


Don't forget Richard and Ben off doing whatever they're doing.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Refresh my memory: where is Miles and where is Richard?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

As for Sun's not speaking English on the island, I can't think that subplot we just saw wrapped up is all. That'd be kinda pathetic (which they even addressed by having Frank say "we're supposed to buy that??".

I think sideways Sun slipped into island Sun a bit, which is why she lost the ability to speak English aloud.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> So Locke survived being hit by a car. I wonder if Desmond knew the wheelchair would save his life.


In the latest podcast, Damon Lindelof said it was really nice for Terry (O'Quinn) to suffer for his art like that. 

Greg


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Refresh my memory: where is Miles and where is Richard?


Richard still wants to destroy the plane. Last week Ben and Miles went with Richard and split from the candidate group.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Of course that Alternate Jack would be the one to operate on Alternate Locke.
I kick myself for not seeing that coming.

So is Ilana going to be Kate's lawyer as well?

And was it just me of was Desmond coming across as creepy when talking to Claire?
I was surprised she actually went with him.

Count me as one who doesn't think that Jack died on the beach. He was just knocked silly.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Good call on Jack possibly dying in that moment... it's possible.


Then why did they clearly show Jack in a daze and hearing muffled noises due to the proximity of the blast? No, he was definitely alive ... just concussed.



T-Wolves said:


> It has to be Jack. Nobody else makes sense. So, the last recruit? It seemed like Jack got "called back" by the Island. So is Jack the "Last Recruit" *of the Island*? Or maybe, more likely, the last one _*not to abandon the Island?*_


Jack's explanation to Sawyer just before exiting the boat was almost verbatim the same as Locke's explanation to Jack in S01 about the Island and their purpose.



T-Wolves said:


> And I was very happy to see *Ilana *again -- she looks great in a suit (as well as in her Island gear). Her death last week really bothered me, so it was nice to see her still playing a part. I thought that she was going to end up being Peter's *David's* Mom, but tonight's episode ruled that out.


FYP. 



mrdazzo7 said:


> ... Flocke wants to fly a crashed commercial airliner off of a tiny airstrip, Jack doesn't know WTF he wants or is doing... The only people with clear goals were Sun and Kate (to find Jin and Claire), but even Kate abandoned her goal because Sawyer said so.


Flocke is from another century predating aviation. He can't know everything about modern technology. Heck, I'm from the modern era, and I still think tape recorders and cell phones and televisions are like magic. 



mqpickles said:


> Favorite line of the night was when Flocke told Jack "it's alright. You're with me now." Nice double meaning.


I loved Sawyer's quick comment to Kate: "Sayid's a zombie and Claire's nuts!" LOL!! :up: Cuse and Lindelof are making this the "zombie season" they've joked about for years. :up:


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Of course that Alternate Jack would be the one to operate on Alternate Locke.
> I kick myself for not seeing that coming.


I thought that was Desmond's ultimate goal when he did it. He's trying to get the band back together any way he can.



JYoung said:


> So is Ilana going to be Kate's lawyer as well?


She does seem to be the only side-world lawyer. 



JYoung said:


> And was it just me of was Desmond coming across as creepy when talking to Claire?
> I was surprised she actually went with him.


Yeah, I kinda got that vibe as well. I think it was just that it was obvious he was trying to manipulate her. I thought he might have had Charlie up in an office somewhere.



JYoung said:


> Count me as one who doesn't think that Jack died on the beach. He was just knocked silly.


Yeah, they even showed a "Jack's-eye view" of him falling, and it never went dark. He was fully conscious the whole time.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

LOST episodes always go by fast, but I actually thought my DVR had skipped forward on its own when I noticed it was near the end. It had glitched at one point and I rewound to point to double check. It felt like it was a good ten minutes shorter than usual. Weird.

Man, I hate the nerd patrol. Please kill them.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Certainly set up an endgame where it's Jack & Locke together on the Island like Jacob and MiB.


I think it's going to be Jack and Sawyer.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> So is Ilana going to be Kate's lawyer as well?


Could well be, although having a family law lawyer handle the case of an accused arsonist and murderer would be totally unrealistic.

Which would completely shatter the carefully constructed naturalism of this show!


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## Demandred (Mar 6, 2001)

I noticed that LAX Sun freaked out when she saw Locke. And not freaked out as in "Hey look it's my old buddy John Locke that I remember from the island". Freaked out as in "Hey look it's that evil guy, MIB." To me that puts a nail in the coffin (although maybe not the final nail) of the "sideways universe" theory. The events in LAX land must be happening *after* the events being shown on the island.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Could well be, although having a family law lawyer handle the case of an accused arsonist and murderer would be totally unrealistic.
> 
> Which would completely shatter the carefully constructed naturalism of this show!


Maybe Kate goes to another attorney at that same firm, but sneaks out trying to escape. She gets tracked down to the office where the other folks are and tries taking someone hostage.



Demandred said:


> I noticed that LAX Sun freaked out when she saw Locke. And not freaked out as in "Hey look it's my old buddy John Locke that I remember from the island". Freaked out as in "Hey look it's that evil guy, MIB." To me that puts a nail in the coffin (although maybe not the final nail) of the "sideways universe" theory. The events in LAX land must be happening *after* the events being shown on the island.


then why wouldn't she or Jin speak English?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Fake Locke was pretty cold when he said that real John Locke was a Sucker, and the only one stupid enough to think they should be on the island. wow, tough talk about the dead guy.

It really throws the whole beginning of the show off and I am sad. I don't know if I will be able to watch again the same way. We all had a little of Locke's innocence/belief/wonder in the Island.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Fake Locke was pretty cold when he said that real John Locke was a Sucker, and the only one stupid enough to think they should be on the island. wow, tough talk about the dead guy.
> 
> It really throws the whole beginning of the show off and I am sad. I don't know if I will be able to watch again the same way. We all had a little of Locke's innocence/belief/wonder in the Island.


I wouldn't give up just yet. With both John AND Jack saying the same thing, it's bound to be the belief that's validated in the end. And that old MIB, he's a liar.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way, totally off topic, but I think that when MiB struck down Jacob, Jacob became more powerful than you could possibly imagine.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I wonder why Widmore backed out on his deal with Sawyer. One thing I won't miss when Lost ends is groups of miscellaneous Redshirts suddenly materializing out of nowhere pointing rifles at people.

Desmond falls into a well with only a foot of water and survives?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh, and loved Hurley's dumbfounded stare after Sawyer said "who the hell is Anakin?!"


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Fake Locke was pretty cold when he said that real John Locke was a Sucker, and the only one stupid enough to think they should be on the island. wow, tough talk about the dead guy.
> 
> It really throws the whole beginning of the show off and I am sad. I don't know if I will be able to watch again the same way. We all had a little of Locke's innocence/belief/wonder in the Island.


This is why I now firmly believe that FLocke is evil and Jacob is good. There's no way (in my mind) that we could go years with real Locke believing in the island and its powers and then having that all be a sham.

FLocke is a lyer. He is the evil one.

As someone said weeks ago, the last episode may very well end with Jack and Sawyer sitting on the beach together just like Jacob and MiB.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

1) That well looked less deep than last week. (cue the "He DIDN'T get OUT of the COCKADOODY CAR!!!" clip from Misery)

2) Rewatched parts of last week. MiB said that it USED to be the case that when you were near the well locations, a compass would spin like crazy. He said they dug wells, Desmond asked if they found what they were looking for, and he said no.

Hmm


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Oh, and loved Hurley's dumbfounded stare after Sawyer said "who the hell is Anakin?!"


Especially since Sawyer is so good with nicknames for people that are founded or related to recent events.

I won't give up hope for the Island and Locke yet.

Also, rewatching it this morning (instead of having breakfast or getting ready for work) I noticed that when Jack and fakeLocke first went into the jungle at their 'merge', it was dark and FakeLocke needed a torch to jab into the ground. When they came back out it was daylight.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Also, rewatching it this morning (instead of having breakfast or getting ready for work) I noticed that when Jack and fakeLocke first went into the jungle at their 'merge', it was dark and FakeLocke needed a torch to jab into the ground. When they came back out it was daylight.


I think we were supposed to understand that everyone had gone to bed for the night and we were watching the following morning.

I loved Sawyer's lines about Lapidus. On the beach when it was just him or Kate he referred to Lapidus as Burt Reynolds and on the boat when Lapidus was asking him about the plan he called him 'Chesty'. LOL


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I would definitely watch a detective show starring Sawyer and Miles.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

TiVotion said:


> I have a hunch, though - Jack may have just gotten "Sayid'ed" there at the end. Jack may have died, and been claim-surr-ected by Flocke. Maybe?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> I doubt it. Jack's too important. He has to play a role in the finale...real Jack, not Zombie Jack.


While the practical part of me agrees with the soundness of Rob's logic from a storytelling perspective, I would not be so quick to dismiss the possibility that we did in fact just witness Jack's death. Is it possible that the Jack that plays an important role in the finale could be Sideways Jack, perhaps? The "Jack didn't lose consciousness"/"he was just stunned" argument aside, I thought that the way Flocke touched Jack and said "you're with me, now" was VERY suggestive of the fact that Flocke had just recruited Jack by resurrecting him, the same as he recruited Sayid (dead and reborn zombie) and Claire (dead and reborn zombie).

I thought it was interesting that Jack sought Hurley's permission before having his private palaver with Flocke, and that Hurley deferred to Jack saying "it's your call" (or words to that effect). Jack's deferring to Hurley was very unwonted, and therefore notable. Since the decision to go to one side or another has to be made under the character's own free will (that's been established, right?) we were essentially being shown that Jack crossed lines of his own volition. It's like the writers were trying to preemptively close the door on any argument that Jack was recruited only because he was following Hurley's plan and not of his own volition.

As far as Sun and Jin go: I was glad to see them reunited, but mostly because that storyline doesn't do much for me and so I was just happy to see it finally reach resolution. I cringed a bit when, hugging Sun, Jin said something along the lines of "now we'll never be apart again!" since that is television-foreshadow-speak for "one of them is about to get dead." I was truly surprised that they both ended the episode still alive.

This episode didn't track any particular character - it wasn't a "Sun/Jin" episode, or a "Jack" episode or a "Sawyer" or a "Kate" etc. It was all of those combined. It's no wonder the time seemed to fly by so quickly. It seems like as the show is drawing to a close the storytelling gloves have really come off.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> As for Sun's not speaking English on the island, I can't think that subplot we just saw wrapped up is all. That'd be kinda pathetic (which they even addressed by having Frank say "we're supposed to buy that??".
> 
> I think sideways Sun slipped into island Sun a bit, which is why she lost the ability to speak English aloud.


I think Lapidus actually said something like "look who got their voice back."

Really liked the episode, but was disappointed with how they handled the Claire situation. I know the whole thing was structured so that she and Kate could have their "moment" and Kate could be the one to convince her to go with them, but in doing that they made it so Jack abandoned his own sister after basically a 5 minute conversation... "Oh, so you're with Locke? I guess you are crazy. See ya, sis..."

I think they could have worked it so that she and Kate had their little conversation, while at the same time not showing everyone else giving up on her so easily.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Are Hurley and Sun the only ones who have not had a private conversation with Smokey?


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

Is Clair "un-crazy" now? She didn't seem very zombie-like (lots of smiles, etc.).

If so, maybe they can "un-zombie" Sayid as well.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

goMO said:


> If so, maybe they can "un-zombie" Sayid as well.


I think maybe Desmond did in this episode but we just weren't able to see the results of that yet.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

DancnDude said:


> Are Hurley and Sun the only ones who have not had a private conversation with Smokey?


Not sure how much of a conversation you would count it to be, but Flocke talked to Sun at her garden, which lead to her running head first into the tree, etc...


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## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

I think Desmond handled that for us.



goMO said:


> Is Clair "un-crazy" now? She didn't seem very zombie-like (lots of smiles, etc.).
> 
> If so, maybe they can "un-zombie" Sayid as well.


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## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Man, I hate the nerd patrol. Please kill them.


If you're talking about Whidmore's group led by Tina Fey (yes, I know it's not her but I like calling her that to annoy a few of you), then that gets a big :up: from me.

Count me in on thinking Sun and Jin were about to be zapped from some strange reason.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DancnDude said:


> I think maybe Desmond did in this episode but we just weren't able to see the results of that yet.


I didn't get that at first, but after reading it here (and about Claire) I can see that. I mean Claire let Kate take her rifle.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Good call on Jack possibly dying in that moment... it's possible. Where was Sayid when the bombs hit though, I didn't see him on the beach. I'm also wondering why Widmore decided to give the order to kill Sawyer, etc (or at least take them prisoner).


I think Sayid, Cindy, and the other 'Others' were off the beach. I think MiB took just a few people down to the shoreline to make sure the boat was there, before bringing everyone down. I think that's why you only saw two or three Others with MiB.



betts4 said:


> Fake Locke was pretty cold when he said that real John Locke was a Sucker, and the only one stupid enough to think they should be on the island. wow, tough talk about the dead guy.


I kinda feel like they are setting up some redemption for John Locke. Almost like his soul might be in that form? Or that there's some way for him to come back and have some revenge on MiB for duping him? I dunno...part of me wants to see some redemption for John, and doesn't want to believe that John is truly gone.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Alpinemaps said:


> I kinda feel like they are setting up some redemption for John Locke. Almost like his soul might be in that form? Or that there's some way for him to come back and have some revenge on MiB for duping him? I dunno...part of me wants to see some redemption for John, and doesn't want to believe that John is truly gone.


I hope there is some redemption too. And revenge on MIB would be interesting. Sometimes I think it is all going to end with John and Jack on the island. But then I think of the writers and wonder if it will be Desmond and Sayid or Hurley and Sawyer. This is fun and I don't want the ride to end yet!


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Why does everybody assume that if it ends with Jack and Sawyer, Jack will become the new Jacob? I think Sawyer is just as likely, with Jack being the new MIB. Especially IF he's been resurrected by MIB in this episode.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I think because Jack's always been the "good" guy and Sawyer the "bad" guy (obviously a bit of a generalization, but I think you know what I mean). Now Jack wants to stay and Sawyer wants to go.

Of course, it could be Hurley since he has some special powers. Same with Desmond, but I think they are supporting characters in this, with Jack being the one the torch is passed to.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Scubee said:


> Count me in on thinking Sun and Jin were about to be zapped from some strange reason.


Nothing strange about it, that's how it was set up, with the radio call to shut down the Doggie Fence, no indication that it had happened yet, and the careful framing of the running together shot so we could see that they were meeting exactly at the fence.

It would have been truly dickish of them to actually go through with it, but it was fun the way they set it up.


DUDE_NJX said:


> Why does everybody assume that if it ends with Jack and Sawyer, Jack will become the new Jacob? I think Sawyer is just as likely, with Jack being the new MIB. Especially IF he's been resurrected by MIB in this episode.





goMO said:


> I think because Jack's always been the "good" guy and Sawyer the "bad" guy (obviously a bit of a generalization, but I think you know what I mean). Now Jack wants to stay and Sawyer wants to go.


Yeah, Jack's the one who wants to do the right thing, and if that means stay, stay; Sawyer's the one who wants to get off the island no matter what. So they're definitely positioned to replace Jacob and MiB respectively, although of course things can change pretty quickly.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I loved the reuniting of Sun and Jin, even as sappy as it was. I was actually caught up in the moment enough that I didn't notice she spoke until Lapidus said something.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

hefe said:


> I loved the reuniting of Sun and Jin, even as sappy as it was. I was actually caught up in the moment enough that I didn't notice she spoke until Lapidus said something.


I didn't notice that either and my only thought about the fence was "I hope they got that order". I loved that Jin said they would never be apart again.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I still laugh at my TV every time Flocke mentions flying that plane off the island.


What Flocke needs is a starship.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Enjoyed the scene when the bomb hit. Redshirt bodies flying everywhere, but Flocke was unaffected. Would have been even cooler if he'd gone smoke monster at the exact moment the bomb struck.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Whidmore is trying to do? Why is it so important he kills off MiB? Who's side is he on? I'm hopeful we will find out who's side he's really on.

I think Jack is alive and not un-dead. I think Flocke might think he's dead, or, it's just a generalization that he's with him now because he's part of his plan to get off the island. 

Any idea why they are taking the week off next week and showing a rerun? I figured perhaps there was some special on, or perhaps a clip show.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, Jack's the one who wants to do the right thing, and if that means stay, stay; Sawyer's the one who wants to get off the island no matter what. So they're definitely positioned to replace Jacob and MiB respectively, although of course things can change pretty quickly.


One thing wrong with the assumption that somebody's gong to "replace" the MIB... none of them are millennia old (just assuming) smoke monsters who can assume the shape of any dead person.

I don't think there's any chance of that happening, from what we've seen. There hasn't been any suggestion that the smoke monster has been any entity other than what it is. Sure it can change what physical form it takes, but it can't "pass the mantle on" the way that Jacob can. Again, from what we've seen so far.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> One thing wrong with the assumption that somebody's gong to "replace" the MIB... none of them are millennia old (just assuming) smoke monsters who can assume the shape of any dead person.
> 
> I don't think there's any chance of that happening, from what we've seen. There hasn't been any suggestion that the smoke monster has been any entity other than what it is. Sure it can change what physical form it takes, but it can't "pass the mantle on" the way that Jacob can. Again, from what we've seen so far.


Well, if you take him at his word (and I admit that's a big IF), he did tell Sawyer that he was once human, he told Richard that Jacob "stole his body" and he told Kate that he had a crazy mother. I think that qualifies as at least a suggestion that the entity that is now the smoke monster may have once been something other than a smoke monster.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

ok, maybe FLocke will assume the body of Sawyer and real Locke will re-emerge.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I do hope we get a really cheesy ending to this show. Perhaps with a space ship, dancing monkeys and confetti.

I'm doubtful, but hopeful.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Interesting that finale will be on a Sunday night. I wonder what they have planned for the first hour? Retrospective? Clip show? Actually, I think how they should do it is show the finale first and THEN have the two producers on to explain WTF we just saw!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

goMO said:


> ok, maybe FLocke will assume the body of Sawyer and real Locke will re-emerge.


Uh, wha? Real Locke is a corpse buried on the beach.

UnLocke doesn't "assume the bodies" of people; he just looks like them.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

If any of our Losties are sitting on the beach staring at each other a la Jacob and MIB in the season 5 finale, it will be Jack and Locke. The central conflict among the Losties has always been Jack v. Locke. Yes, Locke is dead and is now impersonated by MIB; but if someone is going to become an immortal on the Island they need to be changed or different in some way. So maybe Jack will die and Jacob will takes Jack's form the same way MIB took Locke's. 

But I don't think that will happen anyway; I don't think two new 'versions' of Jacob and MIB would be and ending, just more progress. I think Flocke is wrong and/or lying about them being candidates for replacing Jacob, I think they are somehow the pieces that Jacob needs for his endgame plan and once it's implemented, that will be check-and-mate, game over; no need for new players/pieces. It only ends once; and I think we will get to see that end!


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> UnLocke doesn't "assume the bodies" of people; he just looks like them.


And has their memories. And some of their habits, like whittling. And even the same expressions of frustration ("Don't tell me what I can't do!").

I think it's a mistake to think that real Locke's only influence in MIB is appearance.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> What Flocke needs is a starship.


What does Flocke need with a starship?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I wouldn't give up just yet. With both John AND Jack saying the same thing, it's bound to be the belief that's validated in the end. And that old MIB, he's a liar.


I was hoping to see Locke transform into Smokey at the end. I imagine it starts with his legs turning to smoke and works up to his torso and then his head. It would be a good visual for the phrase "liar, liar, pants on fire".



cheesesteak said:


> One thing I won't miss when Lost ends is groups of miscellaneous Redshirts suddenly materializing out of nowhere pointing rifles at people.


Personally, I say that the sound effects of the guns going "TCHK-TCHK" every time a rifle is raised (or even just moved) is way over-used.



jkeegan said:


> 1) That well looked less deep than last week.


That's for sure. Especially since Locke dropped a flaming torch down the well to illustrate how deep it was before giving Dez the heave-ho. Why would people dig such a shallow well when they were looking for answers, as FLocke said last episode?



Shaunnick said:


> I think we were supposed to understand that everyone had gone to bed for the night and we were watching the following morning.


But when Jack and FLocke returned in the daylight, Hurley and Claire were just saying hello as if they were just now realizing each other was there. It was not like a "good morning". Oh well, I can get past that little continuity thing.



Shaunnick said:


> I loved Sawyer's lines about Lapidus. On the beach when it was just him or Kate he referred to Lapidus as Burt Reynolds and on the boat when Lapidus was asking him about the plan he called him 'Chesty'. LOL


I thought Sawyer referred to Lapidus as "that guy from a Burt Reynolds movie". I heard a nickname but couldn't make it out. "Chesty" ... LOL! Is that because he has his shirt open and gray hairy chest? LOL!



jking said:


> Enjoyed the scene when the bomb hit. Redshirt bodies flying everywhere, but Flocke was unaffected. Would have been even cooler if he'd gone smoke monster at the exact moment the bomb struck.


I was hoping. But the enemies were too far away at that moment, and FLocke didn't want to lose his opportunity to influence Jack while he was vulnerable.



goMO said:


> ok, maybe FLocke will assume the body of Sawyer and real Locke will re-emerge.


But Locke's real body is decomposing in a grave on the other side of the island.

I don't get it why some people think Smokey will transform into Sawyer or anybody else?? I thought it has been established that he is now locked in Locke's form.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Interesting that finale will be on a Sunday night. I wonder what they have planned for the first hour? Retrospective? Clip show? Actually, I think how they should do it is show the finale first and THEN have the two producers on to explain WTF we just saw!!


LOL! Seeing cast comments that they are pleased with the ending, I am hoping it would be self-explanatory.

But I WOULD like to see a "reunion show" a la "Survivor" with Darlton and the cast commenting on their thoughts and experiences. But I suppose that will be saved for the Blu-Ray DVDs. That will be how we come down from our "LOST" addiction. Savoring the DVDs.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

All the talk about wheither Jack is dead and a zombie. I thought we learned Jack couldn't die when Richard set the fuse in the cave. I don't follow this like most of you, but clearly that's what I thought Jack said.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> If any of our Losties are sitting on the beach staring at each other a la Jacob and MIB in the season 5 finale, it will be Jack and Locke. The central conflict among the Losties has always been Jack v. Locke. Yes, Locke is dead and is now impersonated by MIB; but if someone is going to become an immortal on the Island they need to be changed or different in some way. So maybe *Jack will die and Jacob will takes Jack's form* the same way MIB took Locke's.


I agree with this scenario. I also think this exactly why MiB needs to protect the candidates at all costs. Once one of them gets killed, then they are available to Jacob to take over again and MiB remains trapped on the island.


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## AndreZero (Feb 11, 2010)

Why were Sun and Jin speaking english? I understand the point of the scene was to show she had regained her ability to speak english but did she know Jin spoke english? Wouldn't she have naturally spoken to him in Korean since that's their native language? 

I may be mis-remembering but I thought he learned English (beyond the few words she had written in his notebook) while in the Dharma Initiative.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Uh, wha? Real Locke is a corpse buried on the beach.
> 
> UnLocke doesn't "assume the bodies" of people; he just looks like them.


I do think it's funny the one continuity error they haven't made this season is that Flocke continues to walk around with the hole Sayid put in his shirt when he stabbed him in "Sundown." You'd think he would have smoked up and un-smoked by now just to fix that shirt!


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

AndreZero said:


> Why were Sun and Jin speaking english? I understand the point of the scene was to show she had regained her ability to speak english but did she know Jin spoke english? Wouldn't she have naturally spoken to him in Korean since that's their native language?
> 
> I may be mis-remembering but I thought he learned English (beyond the few words she had written in his notebook) while in the Dharma Initiative.


Yeah, one of the points of the scene was to show she could speak English again. But I agree it would seem more natural for them to have spoken Korean. I do think it was Jin who spoke first though, in English, and said something like "I love you", which is probably why she spoke back in English. I remember because her look was one of surprise, and I wondered if it was because she expected to hear Korean too.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

AndreZero said:


> Why were Sun and Jin speaking english? I understand the point of the scene was to show she had regained her ability to speak english but did she know Jin spoke english? Wouldn't she have naturally spoken to him in Korean since that's their native language?
> 
> I may be mis-remembering but I thought he learned English (beyond the few words she had written in his notebook) while in the Dharma Initiative.


You answered your own question.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Sayid did not kill Desmond. Great question by Des to Sayid.


I thought it was a stupid question. All Sayid has to say to Nadia is, "I did what I had to do in order to be with you again."


TiVotion said:


> The episode title. "The Last Recruit". Who or what is that referring to? Jack?


Definitely Jack. The last line of the episode was Locke saying to Jack, "You're with me now."


Family said:


> All the talk about wheither Jack is dead and a zombie. I thought we learned Jack couldn't die when Richard set the fuse in the cave. I don't follow this like most of you, but clearly that's what I thought Jack said.


No, we learned (had confirmed) that Richard couldn't die, and Jack had enough faith that Richard couldn't die that he put himself in harm's way to prove it. 


AndreZero said:


> Why were Sun and Jin speaking english? I understand the point of the scene was to show she had regained her ability to speak english but did she know Jin spoke english? Wouldn't she have naturally spoken to him in Korean since that's their native language?
> 
> I may be mis-remembering but I thought he learned English (beyond the few words she had written in his notebook) while in the Dharma Initiative.


Totally agree with this. Thought it was very strange that they spoke English in that scene, although it was clearly set up to show us how Sun got her English back.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

I'm not really loving the way they are wrapping this up. The show is still great, but I guess it's not the season I imagined at all. Probably because I liked all the Dharma/hatch/Others stuff the most, and that doesn't seem to mean squat to this season or really to the whole story arc at all...

I liked Dharma because it was just people and some crazy mysterious island. The whole Jacob vs. Smoke Monster thing and their age old struggle.. I don't really care about it. We haven't seen Jacob or Smokey enough to care about who wins. I don't really care about the sideways anymore either. 

I'm sure they'll wrap it up nice and as I said, still a great show, but it seems more and more at the end, I'm always saying "that's it"? I know that's unfair to the show but they're the ones who set the bar so damn high with the last 5 seasons


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought it was a stupid question. All Sayid has to say to Nadia is, "I did what I had to do in order to be with you again."


But the real question Des was asking was, "What would she think of what you're doing to get her back?" And I'm sure the honest answer to that is "She would despise me for all eternity."


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Let's play a game called MIB or ??! This might be the only game in this forum that gives scenario's of reanimated dead folk (might not be the most accurate term) on LOST, and you get to guess whether it is the Man In Black or Something else! If you guess something else, feel free to make a guess as to what something else is.

Let's start off with an example.

Q. Christian on Day 3 of being trapped on the island appearing to Jack

A. MIB!! ~ if we can trust him

Q. Shannon seeing Walt during Season 2
Q. Kate's seeing a horse during Season 2
Q. Hurley seeing Dave on the Island during Season 2
Q. Mr. Eko speaking to his Brother during Season 3
Q. Young Ben seeing his mother during Season 3
Q. Locke seeing Walt and being told what to do during Season 3
Q. Hurley seeing Dead People off the Island 
Q. Michael seeing Libby in the hospital during Season 4
Q. Jack seeing his father in the hospital off island during Season 4
Q. Claire seeing her father during Season 4 (this is another gimme)
Q. Juliet seeing Harper during Season 4
Q. Michael seeing Christian on the boat prior to dying during Season 4
Q. Hurley seeing Jacob after his death during Season 6
Q. Hurley seeing Michael during Season 6

Step right up!


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

And one more thing, if Smokey can be a dead person, why didn't he assume a previous identity that none of the survivors knew and join them and help them find water, instead of appearing as Christian?

I know the water thing was a lie... but still, no one seems to think of these things when they have conversations.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Loved this short piece of dialog:

Claire: "Hi... what's going on?"
Hugo: "People trying to kill us again."


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Uh, wha? Real Locke is a corpse buried on the beach.
> 
> UnLocke doesn't "assume the bodies" of people; he just looks like them.


But dead people have come back to be alive (Sayid, Claire). I know real Locke has been dead for awhile, but who knows (yeah, I'm reaching..)

But FLocke could look like Sawyer if Sawyer was killed. But that doesn't jibe with him saying he couldn't do that anymore (assuming we believe him).

and yes, if they end up on the beach together, then the game doesn't really end, which is what I assume the end of the show will be.

So......... I got nuttin...

I'm giving up...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> But I don't think that will happen anyway; I don't think two new 'versions' of Jacob and MIB would be and ending, just more progress. I think Flocke is wrong and/or lying about them being candidates for replacing Jacob, I think they are somehow the pieces that Jacob needs for his endgame plan and once it's implemented, that will be check-and-mate, game over; no need for new players/pieces. It only ends once; and I think we will get to see that end!


This. We're building toward an endgame for Jacob and MiB. Not just new replacements to take over their age-old standoff, but a true resolution and ending.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Do people still think Desmond was trying to kill Locke now that he's at the hospital with Jack and a slew of others?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

goMO said:


> But dead people have come back to be alive (Sayid, Claire)...


When did Claire die?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DancnDude said:


> Do people still think Desmond was trying to kill Locke now that he's at the hospital with Jack and a slew of others?


I never did think that Desmond was trying to kill Locke. I thought it was pretty obvious that he was trying to force Locke to have a similar experience to what Desmond had when Charlie drove the car into the harbor.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

DougF said:


> What does Flocke need with a starship?


Do you doubt him?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> When did Claire die?


I was wondering that myself.

People suggested she was dead when she was hangin' with "Jacob" in the cabin, but I can't recall it ever being established one way or the other.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I was wondering that myself.
> 
> People suggested she was dead when she was hangin' with "Jacob" in the cabin, but I can't recall it ever being established one way or the other.


We never saw anything, she just disappeared.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the real question Des was asking was, "What would she think of what you're doing to get her back?" And I'm sure the honest answer to that is "She would despise me for all eternity."


Yes, and we saw LAXSayid previously tell her that he was not worthy of her and he felt that he'd done things that made him unfit for her. This was before he wasted Keamey et. al.

So how can zombie Sayid feel that she'll accept him having done worse (shot an innocent Desmond) and that he is not poison to her?


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I was wondering that myself.
> 
> People suggested she was dead when she was hangin' with "Jacob" in the cabin, but I can't recall it ever being established one way or the other.





hefe said:


> We never saw anything, she just disappeared.


I have heard suggestions (not sure if here, but I know other places) that she may have died when New Otherton was bombed by Keamy's crew the first time and her house was blown up right before Sawyer got to her. And that she was reanimated almost immediately. Also I'm sure there are assumptions out there that when she followed Christian off into the jungle he may have walked her off a cliff or something. But I agree, whether that's the case or not, it's never been established with any certainty that she was ever dead.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

pjenkins said:


> how sweet would it have been if they both blew up, ala dynamite lady from a few shows back


I agree, Ilana is a dynamite lady. :up:



jkeegan said:


> By the way, totally off topic, but I think that when MiB struck down Jacob, Jacob became more powerful than you could possibly imagine.


I agree with you, to a point. But I think Jacob still has to rely on at least one of the candidates to "do the right thing." I used to think it was going to be Hurley, but now it looks more like it will be Jack.



cheesesteak said:


> I wonder why Widmore backed out on his deal with Sawyer. ...


Because that's the kind of man he is. Widmore will do whatever it takes to get what he wants (kinda like Sawyer). I think Widmore wants MIB dead and wants to become the new "master" of the Island. (whatever that means)



jkeegan said:


> ...MiB said that it USED to be the case that when you were near the well locations, a compass would spin like crazy. He said they dug wells, Desmond asked if they found what they were looking for, and he said no.
> Hmm


I think Dharma and Dr. Chang found what they were looking for when they found the "frozen donkey wheel" and built the Orchid Station around it.



goMO said:


> Is Clair "un-crazy" now? She didn't seem very zombie-like (lots of smiles, etc.).
> If so, maybe they can "un-zombie" Sayid as well.


It's a good question -- Claire is looking more and more normal as she is surrounded by the other candidates. I think it was just the 3 years of brainwashing by MIB that messed her up. And kudos to Emilie de Ravin for her acting this season. In the past I didn't give her much respect as an actress, but I thought she was excellent in this episode in both realities.



Alpinemaps said:


> I kinda feel like they are setting up some redemption for John Locke. Almost like his soul might be in that form? Or that there's some way for him to come back and have some revenge on MiB for duping him? I dunno...part of me wants to see some redemption for John, and doesn't want to believe that John is truly gone.


I think somebody posted in last week's thread that when MIB-Locke asks Desmond "Do you know who I am?" and Desmond replies directly -- "You're John Locke," that perhaps there is something to that. We shall see.



BitbyBlit said:


> What Flocke needs is a starship.


And where would he find one of those? Perhaps under his feet? 



getreal said:


> But I WOULD like to see a "reunion show" a la "Survivor" with Darlton and the cast commenting on their thoughts and experiences. But I suppose that will be saved for the Blu-Ray DVDs. That will be how we come down from our "LOST" addiction. Savoring the DVDs.


I want them to write a book about the entire experience from beginning to end. How they conceived the story, what they had to change, all about the actors and how they caused changes to the story, etc. Amazon.com says there is a "Lost Encyclopedia" coming out this summer, but that is not what I'm looking for.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the real question Des was asking was, "What would she think of what you're doing to get her back?" And I'm sure the honest answer to that is "She would despise me for all eternity."


Yes, the flash-sideways right after that conversation underlined the fact that Nadia does not want Sayid to be a killer. When Sayid wanted to get revenge on the people who hurt his brother, it was Nadia who told him to go pick up her kids from school and take care of them. Nadia does not want Sayid to be a bad man, and I'm guessing Sayid knows that. So it'll be interesting to watch Sayid from here on out.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...People suggested she was dead when she was hangin' with "Jacob" in the cabin, but I can't recall it ever being established one way or the other.


I think there was a conversation earlier this season between Jack and Dogen that went roughly like this:
Jack: "Why do you want Sayid dead?"
Dogen: "Because there is an evil growing in his soul."
Jack: "Why do you say that?"
Dogen: "Because the same thing happened to your sister."

The insinuation appeared to be that Claire had at some point died, been reanimated, and then "gone over to the dark side." And they were afraid the same thing was happening to Sayid.

I would like to find out what made Claire abandon Aaron in the woods in the middle of the night like that.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

hefe said:


> When did Claire die?


Unless I'm mistaken, Claire was in a straw hut that was blown up by an RPG. Then we didn't see her again until she was in the cabin with Christian acting loopy.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> But I digress. I still laugh at my TV every time Flocke mentions flying that plane off the island. It's so completely retarded and most of the season has been built around that proposed end-game. I feel like there are almost no characters with a clear goal and an idea of how to acheive it. Sawyer wanted to get his people off the island, so he double crossed everyone involved... Flocke wants to fly a crashed commercial airliner off of a tiny airstrip, Jack doesn't know WTF he wants or is doing... The only people with clear goals were Sun and Kate (to find Jin and Claire), but even Kate abandoned her goal because Sawyer said so.


This is my issue with this season - the "intra-season" events are idiotic. Why would they need to BLOW UP the plane? How are they supposed to get that half-wrecked plane into the air? It just seems dumb.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, Claire was in a straw hut that was blown up by an RPG. Then we didn't see her again until she was in the cabin with Christian acting loopy.


No, IIRC, the last time we saw Claire (other than in the cabin) was after New Otherton was blown up, and everyone was asleep in the woods. Christian appeared to her in the middle of the night and she followed him off into the woods. The rest of the group woke up the next morning, noticed she was missing, and could never find her.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, Claire was in a straw hut that was blown up by an RPG. Then we didn't see her again until she was in the cabin with Christian acting loopy.


Not a straw hut, but a house. And I'm not sure if she was actually in the house at the time of the explosion, or just in proximity. And after that she trekked halfway across the island with Miles and Sawyer (and Aaron), before getting up in the middle of the night to randomly follow Christian into the jungle.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Interesting that finale will be on a Sunday night. I wonder what they have planned for the first hour? Retrospective? Clip show? Actually, I think how they should do it is show the finale first and THEN have the two producers on to explain WTF we just saw!!


The producers aren't going to be around. They're letting the show speak for itself.

ABC, however, is devoting 5 hours to Lost that night. An 2-hour clip show before, the 2-hour finale, and an after party with castmembers on the Jimmy Kimmell Show.

http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/exclusive-abc-supersizes-lost-finale-16123

Greg


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

TiVotion said:


> Just realized something else.
> 
> The episode title. "The Last Recruit". Who or what is that referring to? Jack?





DevdogAZ said:


> Definitely Jack. The last line of the episode was Locke saying to Jack, "You're with me now."


I agree it is Jack, but not because FLocke has recruited him. I read the title of the episode to mean Jack because he was the only one who is looking at the big picture and made the choice that was 'right.' He chose to stay behind, where as the other candidates are hightailing it for escape, Jack turned around and went back to the island, willingly.



DevdogAZ said:


> No, we learned (had confirmed) that Richard couldn't die, and Jack had enough faith that Richard couldn't die that he put himself in harm's way to prove it.


That's not what happened in that scene. The episode before that Jack had seen his name on Jacob's Wheel of Destiny, and Jack believed that meant he could not die yet because he had a purpose that was unfulfilled. Richard could not kill himself. Jack could kill him and very well might have if he had left Richard to die, but it was Jack's presence that made the fuse stop, not Richard's.



DancnDude said:


> Do people still think Desmond was trying to kill Locke now that he's at the hospital with Jack and a slew of others?


I took a dig at those people from last week in my first post. I will stick with what I said, Desmond only meant to _mostly kill Locke_, not all the way.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I never did think that Desmond was trying to kill Locke. I thought it was pretty obvious that he was trying to force Locke to have a similar experience to what Desmond had when Charlie drove the car into the harbor.


Well... seems like it was to get him to see Sun and Jack. Doesn't it?

Locke didn't have any near-death visions of Island Livin'.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Any idea why they are taking the week off next week and showing a rerun? I figured perhaps there was some special on, or perhaps a clip show.


I think the simple answer to that question is to get as much Lost as possible into Nielsen's May sweeps period (which influences the networks' advertising rates), which this year runs from April 29  May 26, 2010.


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

Just had a thought. We (well, the I part of we, anyway) have been reading the title as a reference to someone being the last of the candidates that Flocke will recruit/attempt to recruit. I am thinking that not only does it mean that, it also means that this person (jack?) is the final recruit ever. As in he is the final recruit because his participation will bring this "game" to an end. Not necessarily a profound thought, but I thought I'd share.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

DougF said:


> What does Flocke need with a starship?


:up: Now, say it like Shatner.



latrobe7 said:


> I think it's a mistake to think that real Locke's only influence in MIB is appearance.


Agreed.



DevdogAZ said:


> I thought it was a stupid question. All Sayid has to say to Nadia is, "I did what I had to do in order to be with you again."


I don't think that would be enough to appease Nadia. She's a smart woman. She was disappointed in him when he was in the Republican Guard. She wouldn't be happy with "I killed a man to be with you". She doesn't want that kind of sacrifice.



GDG76 said:


> And one more thing, if Smokey can be a dead person, why didn't he assume a previous identity that none of the survivors knew and join them and help them find water, instead of appearing as Christian?
> 
> I know the water thing was a lie... but still, no one seems to think of these things when they have conversations.


Because, for Smokey, that doesn't get inside their heads, and screws around with them. Just appearing as a random survivor? That also means he has to stick around with them 24/7. But, showing up to just one person like that? Well, he knows that screws with Jack's head. Plus, if Smokey already knew that Jack was a candidate (I don't know that he did, but, if the cave belonged to him, and he had Jack's name written down there), then that is another plus.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

gchance said:


> ABC, however, is devoting 5 hours to Lost that night. An 2-hour clip show before, the 2-hour finale, and an after party with castmembers on the Jimmy Kimmell Show.


The finale schedule is gonna kill me. I expect no less, but, it's gonna be a rough 24 hours for me.

My wife has to work the following day, and can barely make it to 10pm (we usually watch on Wednesdays at 8pm, after our 2 year old goes to bed, but sometimes, like last night, we make it to the end of the episode as it airs). It's my Monday off work.

So, we'll watch the stuff from 7-9pm. Then, we're out for the actually show. We'll have to watch on Monday night at 8pm. Which means I'll have to go into complete communications blackout Sunday evening and all day on Monday to make sure I don't get spoiled. It's going to be a *long* 24 hours. (And, I imagine, about 10-20 pages of talk on here before I get here!)


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Alpinemaps said:


> So, we'll watch the stuff from 7-9pm. Then, we're out for the actually show. We'll have to watch on Monday night at 8pm. Which means I'll have to go into complete communications blackout Sunday evening and all day on Monday to make sure I don't get spoiled. It's going to be a *long* 24 hours. (And, I imagine, about 10-20 pages of talk on here before I get here!)


I have the urge to point my finger at you and laugh like Nelson.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Locke didn't have any near-death visions of Island Livin'.


He can't. On the island he's dead.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> He can't. On the island he's dead.


So's Libby. She had visions.

LAXLocke might be able to have visions of his previous Island planewreck weeks but NOT of the ongoing events because unLocke is not Locke, he's MiB.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Alpinemaps said:


> I don't think that would be enough to appease Nadia. She's a smart woman. She was disappointed in him when he was in the Republican Guard. She wouldn't be happy with "I killed a man to be with you". She doesn't want that kind of sacrifice.


Agreed. This is further reinforced by her behavior in Sideways Land when Sayid showed up on the run from the cops. She seemed mored troubled that he did something violent than that he protected her family and solved their Keemy problem.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> So's Libby. She had visions.


Doh.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> So's Libby. She had visions.
> 
> LAXLocke might be able to have visions of his previous Island planewreck weeks but NOT of the ongoing events because unLocke is not Locke, he's MiB.


As did Charlie, and Faraday. That said, I don't know that we can say for sure that Locke didn't have visions. He called for Helen, but he was so traumatized, he might have been having visions that we don't know about. It could also be that we will see him having visions while he's under the knife.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

jking said:


> As did Charlie, and Faraday. That said, I don't know that we can say for sure that Locke didn't have visions. He called for Helen, but he was so traumatized, he might have been having visions that we don't know about. It could also be that *we will see him having visions while he's under the knife*.


As someone about to have surgery very early in the AM right after the LOST finale, I find this rather disturbing...


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

DreadPirateRob said:


> He can't. On the island he's dead.


Technically sideways world is still in 2004 where regular Locke is alive and well


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> As someone about to have surgery very early in the AM right after the LOST finale, I find this rather disturbing...


Make no mistake, you'll be having visions. You won't be able to turn your brain off or stop trying to figure out what just happened on LOST.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> I have the urge to point my finger at you and laugh like Nelson.


Yeah, go ahead.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> Well... seems like it was to get him to see Sun and Jack. Doesn't it?


I can't remember but did Desmond know that Sun and Jin were there? I feel dumb for asking but I am blanking.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Alpinemaps said:


> ... So, we'll watch the stuff from 7-9pm. *Then, we're out for the actually show*. We'll have to watch on Monday night at 8pm. ...


I can't imagine having the willpower to turn off the series finale of Lost to...._sleep_? You could really do that?


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

betts4 said:


> I can't remember but did Desmond know that Sun and Jin were there? I feel dumb for asking but I am blanking.


I don't recall us seeing him cross their paths. That's not to say he didn't know though. He seems to have a knack for finding out when and where the Losties will be in the sideways reality.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Alpinemaps said:


> I don't think that would be enough to appease Nadia. She's a smart woman. She was disappointed in him when he was in the Republican Guard. She wouldn't be happy with "I killed a man to be with you". She doesn't want that kind of sacrifice.


Sayid would *never* actually have to tell Nadia what he did to be with her, and he knows it. So Nadia's reaction isn't even an issue - what's important is Sayid's feelings about what he did.

Sayid desperately wants to feel worthy of Nadia - her goodness makes him want to be a better man, and that's one of the reasons he loves her. If he murdered Desmond to be with her, for the rest of his life his happiness would be poisoned by thoughts of being unworthy of her because he killed a friend to be with her. Those are the kind of thoughts that can drive a man insane.

So Desmond's crafty question wasn't really about Nadia - it was a grenade to Sayid's psyche to make him realize "I'd never be happy because I wouldn't be able to look at her without feeling unworthy of her."


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> Sayid would *never* actually have to tell Nadia what he did to be with her, and he knows it. So Nadia's reaction isn't even an issue - what's important is Sayid's feelings about what he did.
> 
> Sayid desperately wants to feel worthy of Nadia - her goodness makes him want to be a better man, and that's one of the reasons he loves her. If he murdered Desmond to be with her, for the rest of his life his happiness would be poisoned by thoughts of being unworthy of her because he killed a friend to be with her. Those are the kind of thoughts that can drive a man insane.
> 
> So Desmond's crafty question wasn't really about Nadia - it was a grenade to Sayid's psyche to make him realize "I'd never be happy because I wouldn't be able to look at her without feeling unworthy of her."


Well said.

and besides, Hurley has hope for our Anakin's redemption


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Hope this isn't old news. Nice interview with Darlton on Wired.com...

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

MickeS said:


> This is my issue with this season - the "intra-season" events are idiotic. Why would they need to BLOW UP the plane? How are they supposed to get that half-wrecked plane into the air? It just seems dumb.


I'm with you. But a being that can turn into black smoke and unlock chains without touching them just might be able to get a half-wrecked plane in the air.

The part that bugs me is that Ilana/Richard/etc. have been wasting time looking for dynamite and grenades when one of those torches they are all carrying around could be used to start a cabin fire that would do the job.

Speaking of Richard/Ben/Miles, I have a feeling they made the wrong choice in leaving the candidates and will soon pay for the error of their ways.


----------



## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

What I don't get is what makes Jack a better candidate than Hurley? Hurley's the one that talks to Jacob and seems to know what to do most of the time. Why isn't Hurley jumping off the boat?


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

How long has Desmond/Libby's boat been sitting out there with no one thinking or talking about it? Had they talked about it before, and I missed it? Because, as usual, no one asked or flinched when being told they'd just get this boat and head over to the other island. Like easy-peasy, here we go.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

SoBelle0 said:


> How long has Desmond/Libby's boat been sitting out there with no one thinking or talking about it? Had they talked about it before, and I missed it? Because, as usual, no one asked or flinched when being told they'd just get this boat and head over to the other island. Like easy-peasy, here we go.


Never been much difficulty going inter-island. Boats, canoes. No big deal.

Sawyer reminded us that heading home, out away from the islands was problematic.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jking said:


> I think Lapidus actually said something like "look who got their voice back."


Yeah tonight, but when she lost it weeks ago, Lapidus (or maybe Miles? but I think it was Lapidus) said "We're supposed to buy that??" or something almost exactly like that.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> Well said.
> 
> and besides, Hurley has hope for our Anakin's redemption


So maybe Sayid is The Last Recruit.



T-Wolves said:


> I can't imagine having the willpower to turn off the series finale of Lost to...._sleep_? You could really do that?


----------



## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> I think it's going to be Jack and Sawyer.


That's what I think as well...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

T-Wolves said:


> It would seem that Widmore thought that he had all of the "candidates" on Hydra Island now -- not knowing Jack wasn't among them. So do the "rules" say that if the candidates are off the Island, MIB-Smokey can be killed?


Does Hydra island count as "off the island?" Considering that when the island moves Hydra goes with it?



Philosofy said:


> I think the sides are being drawn up: Flocke's flock vs Jacob's believers. In the sideways world, Jacob's people are at the hospital, and Flocke's at the lawyer's office. I think Sayid will end up with Ilana as his lawyer. And I also think the tipping point will be the real Locke.


Is it possible that real Locke from the sideways could be the new Jacob? He'd be perfect since he has always loved and believed in the island.



goMO said:


> Is Clair "un-crazy" now? She didn't seem very zombie-like (lots of smiles, etc.).
> 
> If so, maybe they can "un-zombie" Sayid as well.


It seems like they are redeemable which is great. It always bothered me that they didn't really choose to join the dark side.



Peter000 said:


> There hasn't been any suggestion that the smoke monster has been any entity other than what it is. Sure it can change what physical form it takes, but it can't "pass the mantle on" the way that Jacob can. Again, from what we've seen so far.


Why would you replace MiB? If he dies, were good. If he stays on the island, we're ok. If he escapes, we're screwed.



Bananfish said:


> So Desmond's crafty question wasn't really about Nadia - it was a grenade to Sayid's psyche to make him realize "I'd never be happy because I wouldn't be able to look at her without feeling unworthy of her."


Or he would be so far gone into evil that he wouldn't even realize that he wasn't good enough for her. I think he saw that it's a slippery slope, and if he didn't turn around right now, he'd never find his way back.

Is it possible that Widmore just wants to put the candidates in a safe place so that there's no way Locke can take them off the island with him? Probably not. 

I'm trying to keep track of who can't be killed. We saw bullets bounce off Locke, but that might depend on who's shooting. Did we decide that they can't kill off the candidates? Or each other's recruits? So when Widmore is lobbing bombs on the beach, who's he trying to kill? Just the redshirts? Why bother? Or could he really kill Smokey? Maybe because he was his man once? When Locke picked up Jack in the midst of the bombs, my first thought was that he was using him as a shield, since he can't be killed.

Someone mentioned Widmore wanting to be the new boss--the new MiB? I can't see him as the new Jacob. But he can't do it if he's not a candidate?

I expect someone to come along who can actually tell them what to do to defeat MiB. Eloise or Desmond maybe. I think if they knew for sure how to save the world, any one of them would stay and do it. Since they don't know, you can't really blame them for just running.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Is it possible that real Locke from the sideways could be the new Jacob? He'd be perfect since he has always loved and believed in the island.


Well, no...he doesn't even know the island exists!


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Maybe today he doesn't. When he wakes up from surgery, who knows?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> No, we learned (had confirmed) that Richard couldn't die, and Jack had enough faith that Richard couldn't die that he put himself in harm's way to prove it.


I disagree. In that scene, Richard claimed that he couldn't kill himself but that someone else could do it for him. Jack said sure, and lit the fuse, and sat down, because Jack believed that JACK couldn't die (YET), because Jacob had been watching him his whole life, and Jack was willing to bet that it wasn't just to blow up in that ship with Richard. Jack doesn't know WHAT Jacob brought him there to do, but he knows Jacob planned all of Jack's life for it (well, that long *ago* anyway), and that it must be significant.

Jack also knew that Jacob told Hurley to get Jack to the lighthouse, which was further confirmation that there was something big Jack had to do.

And lastly, off island Jack tried to commit suicide by climbing onto a bridge and preparing to jump. He looked up, said he was sorry, then just as he was going to jump there was an accident behind him so that he had to go save someone.

Jack knew he couldn't die yet, because he had something significant to do. That's also why he jumped off of the boat.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> How long has Desmond/Libby's boat been sitting out there with no one thinking or talking about it? Had they talked about it before, and I missed it? Because, as usual, no one asked or flinched when being told they'd just get this boat and head over to the other island. Like easy-peasy, here we go.


I wondered about that a couple of threads ago. Last we saw of the boat, that I can remember, was in S2 when Sun, Jin and Sayid (I think) sailed it around the Island, saw the 4-toed foot statue, and then got into a scuffle with The Others when they tried to rescue Jack, Kate, et al. IIRC, someone even got shot and the boat got a couple bullet holes in it. But then the boat disappeared and was never mentioned again until this episode. Very strange if it's just been sitting there moored offshore for three years.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm still trying to understand the rules of the sideways world. Those events are taking place in 2004, which would make them parellel lives to the Losties from season one. So any connections between the two realities aren't really making sense. Sun looked over at Locke and said "no, no, it's him, which indicates that she has the knowledge of Regu-Sun's encounters with Flocke on the island. But in 2004, a week after the crash, she didn't know Locke from a hole in the wall. 

Same with Desmond. He was electro-magnetized by Widmore in 2007 and seemed to briefly merge with his Alterna-self, but in 2004? It just doesn't make sense that events in 2007 are causing their mirror selves in 2004 to have memories, etc. It reminds me of the season five episode where Faraday tells 2004 Hatch Desmond something, 2007 Desmond randomly wakes up and remembers it, three years later. 

I've also said the same thing about the plane--why the hell do you need dynamite? How hard can it possibly be to make a plane not work? Get up in there, cut all the wires you can find, and you're done. Whatever, I'll forgive it. 

I just thought about this, but did Rose and Bernard time-travel back to 2007 with the rest of them also, despite not being near the blast? I don't know what the rules are with that because what we DID see doesn't make any sense (ie a hydrogen bomb detonation not only DOESN'T vaporize them, but magically sends them AND a dharma van through time to their rightful time period, lol), so who knows about what we didn't see. 

Anyway, whatever. I'm disappointed that there is no new episode next week, since now it's really hitting that final stretch.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

People keep mentioning that the plane crashed and should be unflyable. Actually, the plane landed on the makeshift runway and the only obvious damage to the plane is the broken windshield. Whether or not the plane is flyable with a broken windshield is beyond my expertise but it's not like the plane actually crashed and is incapable of turning around and taking off.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

brermike said:


> People keep mentioning that the plane crashed and should be unflyable. Actually, the plane landed on the makeshift runway and the only obvious damage to the plane is the broken windshield. Whether or not the plane is flyable with a broken windshield is beyond my expertise but it's not like the plane actually crashed and is incapable of turning around and taking off.


Maybe but they would have to get it out of the position it crashed it, turn it around, then fly it off an airstrip that doesn't even look long enough for a prop plane to gain enough speed for take off, let alone a commercial jet--I think that's the bigger issue for me over whether or not the plane will physically fly. It just seems completely retarded that they will be able to some how turn it around and actually get it off the ground from that small island.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Maybe but they would have to get it out of the position it crashed it, turn it around, then fly it off an airstrip that doesn't even look long enough for a prop plane to gain enough speed for take off, let alone a commercial jet--I think that's the bigger issue for me over whether or not the plane will physically fly. It just seems completely retarded that they will be able to some how turn it around and actually get it off the ground from that small island.


I can understand that. I guess my recollection of the runway last year in Namaste was that it was quite long. Then again it is just a tv show so I guess it can be longer if necessary for the plot


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> Sawyer reminded us that heading home, out away from the islands was problematic.


I wondered why it couldn't be sailed out onto the open sea. It was how Desmond got here in the first place.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I wondered why it couldn't be sailed out onto the open sea. It was how Desmond got here in the first place.


Because if you don't have the proper bearing, bad things happen.
See Minkowski and the Freighter doctor for starters.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> So maybe Sayid is The Last Recruit.


Just so you know that triggered my spam filter.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I guess this was advertised during the show. A fan-made promo contest. The winning promo gets aired on ABC. 5 finalists to vote on.
http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/fan-promo-contest-vote

These are the two best. I admit, that though the second one is meant to be over the top and absurd, it got to me.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> I think the sides are being drawn up: Flocke's flock vs Jacob's believers. In the sideways world, Jacob's people are at the hospital, and Flocke's at the lawyer's office. I think Sayid will end up with Ilana as his lawyer. And I also think the tipping point will be the real Locke.


Interesting observation, especially considering how Jack is back and forth between both places, just like on the island.

I'll be disappointed if Locke was really intended to just be a pathetic vessel for MiB.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> I disagree. In that scene, Richard claimed that he couldn't kill himself but that someone else could do it for him. Jack said sure, and lit the fuse, and sat down, because Jack believed that JACK couldn't die (YET), because Jacob had been watching him his whole life, and Jack was willing to bet that it wasn't just to blow up in that ship with Richard. Jack doesn't know WHAT Jacob brought him there to do, but he knows Jacob planned all of Jack's life for it (well, that long *ago* anyway), and that it must be significant.
> 
> And lastly, off island Jack tried to commit suicide by climbing onto a bridge and preparing to jump. He looked up, said he was sorry, then just as he was going to jump there was an accident behind him so that he had to go save someone.
> 
> Jack knew he couldn't die yet, because he had something significant to do. That's also why he jumped off of the boat.


I agree and can't believe this significant point has been missed during this thread. During the entire Lost run it has continuously been a mystery to me why people believed what they did was right. What (real) evidence said Jack had to set off the bomb? How was Desmond so positive he had to push those buttons? In this one instance I understood Jack's motive's clearly. Bad guy wants to leave the island, yet all Losties have decided to leave the Island. Logic says that can't be good. Jack believes he can't die so what is the risk to jumping in the sea and going back to Fake Locke. The path for Jack was clear to me... one of the first times during the series.

Which brings the comment a few posts ago. Most of the Losties would do the right thing if they knew what that meant. Why the mystery (other than to create an awesome show). Why wouldn't Jacob tell them (if he's a good guy) I hope that question is dealt with.


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Family said:


> Which brings the comment a few posts ago. Most of the Losties would do the right thing if they knew what that meant. Why the mystery (other than to create an awesome show). Why wouldn't Jacob tell them (if he's a good guy) I hope that question is dealt with.


Ever since they introduced us to the MiB and Jacob and the battle on the island I thought what Jacob was working for/with/against was free will. Jacob doesn't tell people what they have to do, people make their own decisions.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

uncdrew said:


> I do hope we get a really cheesy ending to this show. Perhaps with a space ship, dancing monkeys and confetti.
> 
> I'm doubtful, but hopeful.


Don't forget the giant turtle 

Slightly off topic, just what is the correct spelling: Flocke, FLocke or fLocke? Has Steve Jobs weighed in on this yet?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

getreal said:


> LOL! Seeing cast comments that they are pleased with the ending, I am hoping it would be self-explanatory.
> 
> But I WOULD like to see a "reunion show" a la "Survivor" with Darlton and the cast commenting on their thoughts and experiences. But I suppose that will be saved for the Blu-Ray DVDs. That will be how we come down from our "LOST" addiction. Savoring the DVDs.


The complete series comes out August 24. Isn't that actually earlier than the season box-sets come out _regular_ Fall shows? That makes me think the Aug. 24 release will not have anything more than the usual box-set stuff. And then a year later we'll get the deluxe collector's edition.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

SeanC said:


> Ever since they introduced us to the MiB and Jacob and the battle on the island I thought what Jacob was working for/with/against was free will. Jacob doesn't tell people what they have to do, people make their own decisions.


Yeah but except for that moment when he explained the Island and the bottle... Jacob has kept it a mystery what the Losties were basing their decisions on.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

BitbyBlit said:


> Do you doubt him?


Aargh! That video is blocked for me since I'm not in the US. What sorts of copyright would be infringed if someone watches this north of the 49 versus south? Ca anyone explain this while keeping a straight face?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

T-Wolves said:


> I think there was a conversation earlier this season between Jack and Dogen that went roughly like this:
> Jack: "Why do you want Sayid dead?"
> Dogen: "Because there is an evil growing in his soul."
> Jack: "Why do you say that?"
> ...


Danielle's team got "sick" without dying, or at least we were never shown anything to lead us to believe that. I don't believe we've seen anything that would lead us to believe that you had to die to become "infected".


----------



## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Maybe but they would have to get it out of the position it crashed it, turn it around, then fly it off an airstrip that doesn't even look long enough for a prop plane to gain enough speed for take off, let alone a commercial jet--I think that's the bigger issue for me over whether or not the plane will physically fly. It just seems completely retarded that they will be able to some how turn it around and actually get it off the ground from that small island.


What's even more ridiculous is that IF they could fly the plane, it would mean it has fuel. IF it has fuel, it means they don't need dynamite to destroy it.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

wprager said:


> Aargh! That video is blocked for me since I'm not in the US. What sorts of copyright would be infringed if someone watches this north of the 49 versus south? Ca anyone explain this while keeping a straight face?


Does hulu work?


----------



## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

jking said:


> Hope this isn't old news. Nice interview with Darlton on Wired.com...
> 
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/


I kept looking for clues in that picture of the office. Have we seen all of the events referred to on the whiteboard? I'm pretty sure there are spoilers there.


----------



## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

I figured the plane is just Locke's method for getting all the folks over to Hydra for something else. A lie, as motivation to move his crew. We don't know that purpose, of course, but would any of Locke's folks know any better? The losties all transported out on their trip back and would have no knowledge of the plane. Frank, Alana, etc. are not with Locke, right? 

So, Locke says "we're leaving, time to get on that plane and fly out of here" and who can contradict that?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I think it's messed up that not only did Kate leave Claire after trying to find her, but JACK was down with doing it also... that's his damn sister. Glad she came to her senses. I'm ok with alliances going and back and forth but I really want the end game to be all of the original people (and Chesty) on the same side, working together.


I'm totally with you on this. I really want our original Losties to be together at the end.



mrdazzo7 said:


> The only people with clear goals were Sun and Kate (to find Jin and Claire), but even Kate abandoned her goal because Sawyer said so.


I would too after she tried to kill me! It was more than obvious after that, that she wasn't playing with a full deck.



Jeeters said:


> I think it's going to be Jack and Sawyer.


I don't think so. I'd be VERY disappointed if it ended with those two on the beach and Sawyer telling Jack "do you know how badly I want to kill you?" but I'm a bit fearful something similar to that might happen.



hefe said:


> I loved the reuniting of Sun and Jin, even as sappy as it was. I was actually caught up in the moment enough that I didn't notice she spoke until Lapidus said something.


When Jin walked around from behind the tree I realized they were about to be reunited and was silently clapping and very happy. Until that moment I wasn't even aware that I cared so much for them to get back together. It was a nice moment.



latrobe7 said:


> If any of our Losties are sitting on the beach staring at each other a la Jacob and MIB in the season 5 finale, it will be Jack and Locke. The central conflict among the Losties has always been Jack v. Locke. Yes, Locke is dead and is now impersonated by MIB; but if someone is going to become an immortal on the Island they need to be changed or different in some way. So maybe Jack will die and Jacob will takes Jack's form the same way MIB took Locke's.
> 
> But I don't think that will happen anyway; I don't think two new 'versions' of Jacob and MIB would be and ending, just more progress. I think Flocke is wrong and/or lying about them being candidates for replacing Jacob, I think they are somehow the pieces that Jacob needs for his endgame plan and once it's implemented, that will be check-and-mate, game over; no need for new players/pieces. It only ends once; and I think we will get to see that end!


THIS! Thank you. That's what I was thinking before. There's GOT to be a reason Jacob said that phrase. Not so we could NOT see it end and the end of the series. I would feel cheated.



T-Wolves said:


> I can't imagine having the willpower to turn off the series finale of Lost to...._sleep_? You could really do that?


I will be turning it off. 3:30am comes way too early for me to be up watching Lost and then thinking about it and chatting online about it until probably midnight. I tried that for the Richard episode and didn't get in bed until an hour after it was over. I'd rather not watch it and sleep then watch it and be so amped up I can't sleep.



Bananfish said:


> Sayid would *never* actually have to tell Nadia what he did to be with her, and he knows it. So Nadia's reaction isn't even an issue - what's important is Sayid's feelings about what he did.
> 
> Sayid desperately wants to feel worthy of Nadia - her goodness makes him want to be a better man, and that's one of the reasons he loves her. If he murdered Desmond to be with her, for the rest of his life his happiness would be poisoned by thoughts of being unworthy of her because he killed a friend to be with her. Those are the kind of thoughts that can drive a man insane.
> 
> So Desmond's crafty question wasn't really about Nadia - it was a grenade to Sayid's psyche to make him realize "I'd never be happy because I wouldn't be able to look at her without feeling unworthy of her."


This. This. A million times this. I think that was essentially the entire summary of Sayid and Nadia from day one.



Roadblock said:


> What I don't get is what makes Jack a better candidate than Hurley? Hurley's the one that talks to Jacob and seems to know what to do most of the time. Why isn't Hurley jumping off the boat?


I too think Hurley should be the replacement for Jacob if anyone is. It did look like we were going in that direction for a bit.



mrdazzo7 said:


> Anyway, whatever. I'm disappointed that there is no new episode next week, since now it's really hitting that final stretch.


I didn't even realize it wasn't new next week until reading this thread. Now I'm upset.

How many still to go until the 2 hour season finale??


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm totally with you on this. I really want our original Losties to be together at the end.


is it bad that I agree, but I want them all together in the graveyard where Libby is buried? (well, except Hugo, he can live... )


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Mike Wells said:


> I figured the plane is just Locke's method for getting all the folks over to Hydra for something else. A lie, as motivation to move his crew. We don't know that purpose, of course, but would any of Locke's folks know any better? The losties all transported out on their trip back and would have no knowledge of the plane. Frank, Alana, etc. are not with Locke, right?
> 
> So, Locke says "we're leaving, time to get on that plane and fly out of here" and who can contradict that?


I think you're onto something. Flocke has been wanting off the Island since before planes and submarines were invented. He won't need a plane to get himself off the Island.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

T-Wolves said:


> I can't imagine having the willpower to turn off the series finale of Lost to...._sleep_? You could really do that?


Oh, without a doubt, it's going to be tough. Not only do I have to turn it off, but we won't be able to watch it until our 2 year old goes to bed at 8pm Monday night. So, I'll have to go into complete communications black out - no cell phones, no Internet, nothing!

Fortunately, I'm off work that day (but my wife has to work), so I can take our 2 year old out, and I can make sure I'm away from anyone that might spoil it for me (like my coworkers).


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Mike Wells said:


> I figured the plane is just Locke's method for getting all the folks over to Hydra for something else. A lie, as motivation to move his crew. We don't know that purpose, of course, but would any of Locke's folks know any better? The losties all transported out on their trip back and would have no knowledge of the plane. Frank, Alana, etc. are not with Locke, right?
> 
> So, Locke says "we're leaving, time to get on that plane and fly out of here" and who can contradict that?


I just had a thought. And it is something you said that got me thinking about this. No one knows which Kwon is the candidate. I think though it is Jin. Sun is the only person from the Wheel of Destiny who did not go back in time. All the other people listed on the wheel did. I think this is where the two have a distinct seperation in terms of being 'special', if having traveled back in time can make one special in the Lost universe.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> How many still to go until the 2 hour season finale??


5 hours of show. (Note: The finale is a Sunday.)

Titles redacted because some consider them spoilers.

04/May/10 ********

11/May/10 ************

18/May/10 *************

23/May/10 *******(part 1)
23/May/10 *******(part 2)


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Mike Wells said:


> I kept looking for clues in that picture of the office. Have we seen all of the events referred to on the whiteboard? I'm pretty sure there are spoilers there.





Spoiler



There's something on the board about Bernard and a dentist's office -- I don't recall seeing that scene, yet.


----------



## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

danterner said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> There's something on the board about Bernard and a dentist's office -- I don't recall seeing that scene, yet.


(spoilers regarding the photo from the Wired magazine article)



Spoiler



I also think that the scenes regarding walking to a cage, sawyer and kate, etc. happens right after the nerd squad takes them captive at the beach. Although it could describe them back a few seasons ago in the bear cages, why would that be on the whiteboard now??


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

hefe said:


> 5 hours of show. (Note: The finale is a Sunday.)
> 
> Titles redacted because some consider them spoilers.
> 
> ...


Crap!! No new episode next week! I didn't know this!


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Maybe he just needs them off THE island. Once they're all off of the main island (on hydra) then he can leave. Of course now Jack is back on the island


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

DancnDude said:


> Maybe he just needs them off THE island. Once they're all off of the main island (on hydra) then he can leave. Of course now Jack is back on the island


I did think about this too, maybe the plane is all a red herring.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Mike Wells said:


> (spoilers regarding the photo from the Wired magazine article)
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I thought the latter, but you're right - why would that be there now? Must be upcoming. I hope not, though - I want everything to move at 100 MPH now. I don't want our characters caged, conveniently forgetting English, etc. It's time for them to start communicating and asking follow-up questions of each other. Thus far the season has been good in that regard. Sticking them in cages would seem to maybe be a step backward.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Mike Wells said:


> (spoilers regarding the photo from the Wired magazine article)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unless...



Spoiler



Could it be referring to Sawyer's walk down memory lane, when he first went over to Hydra Island a few episodes ago? I have the Wired article at home, but I can't remember if it talks about just Sawyer or Sawyer and Kate looking at the cages.

The only other thing I can think of, is that it's talking about them walking past the cages in the sense that they're on their way to see Widmore.


----------



## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Maybe MiB can't leave until all the candidates are dead. And it's easier killing them all at once than hunting them down one by one. Luring them to the plane is his way of getting them all together then he kills them then he can leave because there's no cork on the bottle anymore.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Queue said:


> Maybe MiB can't leave until all the candidates are dead. And it's easier killing them all at once than hunting them down one by one. Luring them to the plane is his way of getting them all together then he kills them then he can leave because there's no cork on the bottle anymore.


That's a pretty big stretch...seems to me it's a LOT easier to kill them one by one.

No, I don't necessarily buy that he's trying to get them off the island, but there must be some specific reason why he needs them all together. And it won't make them very happy.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Maybe he has secret rings for them all to wear, and they all need to put their rings together and chant something like "transmute to the firey candidates!", at which point they can all use their superpowers, get into arguments with each other, kill each OTHER off, and then he's free.


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Maybe he has secret rings for them all to wear, and they all need to put their rings together and chant something like "transmute to the firey candidates!", at which point they can all use their superpowers, get into arguments with each other, kill each OTHER off, and then he's free.


"Candidate powers, ACTIVATE!"


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

SeanC said:


> "Candidate powers, ACTIVATE!"


"Form of... a Smoke Monster!"


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's a pretty big stretch...seems to me it's a LOT easier to kill them one by one.
> 
> No, I don't necessarily buy that he's trying to get them off the island, but there must be some specific reason why he needs them all together. And it won't make them very happy.


But, theoretically, if Jacob has a similar power as MiB, then as soon as any one of the candidates are dead, they become available to Jacob to steal their form, thereby trapping MiB on the Island. So maybe Smokey needs to keep them all together and alive until they are off the island, and then he will finally be free to eliminate them all at the same time, or have them eliminate each other (e.g., Claire and Sayid would be ordered to execute each candidate and then each other).

The only hitch to this theory could be that Jacob has not been restricted to the Island, but that was while he was still breathing.

Hmmmm ....


----------



## eMarkM (Apr 28, 2003)

Queue said:


> Maybe MiB can't leave until all the candidates are dead. And it's easier killing them all at once than hunting them down one by one. Luring them to the plane is his way of getting them all together then he kills them then he can leave because there's no cork on the bottle anymore.


I'm pretty sure it's "against the rules" for MiB to directly kill a candidate. Maybe indirectly, like he got Jacob killed, but not by his own hand. Otherwise, he'd have just "smoked" them and done the deed long ago. So I think there's some plausibility in having them all killed at once "indirectly". But I think they actually all have to leave together in order for MiB to get off the island, pretty much as he says. They just don't know what the consequences of his leaving will really be.


----------



## stlarenas (Sep 17, 2005)

Help me remember...

When watching this episode there a line Claire spoke (I think to Jack) that I thought was especially significant. I haven't seen it mentioned her yet.

It was something like (Claire to Jack): "you are already on his side (MIB's), you were as soon as you let him speak to you." Can anyone find the exact dialog?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

stlarenas said:


> Help me remember...
> 
> When watching this episode there a line Claire spoke (I think to Jack) that I thought was especially significant. I haven't seen it mentioned her yet.
> 
> It was something like (Claire to Jack): "you are already on his side (MIB's), you were as soon as you let him speak to you." Can anyone find the exact dialog?


Click here.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

BitbyBlit said:


> Does hulu work?


Nope 

There are always proxy services that allow you to pretend to be somewhere else but they systematically block those as well. They are very, very determined to not let anyone outside the US watch some stuff. And we're not talking about full episodes only; I could not watch some Chuck promo clips a while back either. Not happy.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> Nope
> 
> There are always proxy services that allow you to pretend to be somewhere else but they systematically block those as well. They are very, very determined to not let anyone outside the US watch some stuff. And we're not talking about full episodes only; I could not watch some Chuck promo clips a while back either. Not happy.


Time to move.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

stlarenas said:


> Help me remember...
> 
> When watching this episode there a line Claire spoke (I think to Jack) that I thought was especially significant. I haven't seen it mentioned her yet.
> 
> It was something like (Claire to Jack): "you are already on his side (MIB's), you were as soon as you let him speak to you." Can anyone find the exact dialog?


There have been several instances now of "don't let him speak to you..."


----------



## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I am hoping in the next episode or two that we find out the "rules" of Jacob and MiB. I mean if just wants to get off the island and Jacob was keeping him there, after Jacob died, why not get into that boat that Sawyer got and just leave...obviously he can't be killed by conventional weapons, so I assume hunger and thirst wouldn't do it either.

I don't think he wants to leave the island so much as he wants to do something TO the island and he needs the candidates to do it.

Also, I don't think that Jacob can take over a dead body like MiB can. If that were true, why did he send Ilana to protect them? Jacob would probably want at least one candidate to bite the dust so he could take their body over.

it seems obvious that forces beyond them is wanting the remaining candidates together in both universes. They for second were together on the island this episode, but not in the alternate universe...something tells me that Jacob's end game has to do with the side universe and everyone being together. I think in the event they all get together, Desmond will be there and tell them to chant something or put their power rings on...


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

wprager said:


> Nope
> 
> There are always proxy services that allow you to pretend to be somewhere else but they systematically block those as well. They are very, very determined to not let anyone outside the US watch some stuff. And we're not talking about full episodes only; I could not watch some Chuck promo clips a while back either. Not happy.


Too bad. I can understand why they might not want to show full episodes, but yeah, it doesn't make sense why they would care about clips.

Anyway, it was just the scene where Smokey wiped out Ilana's comrades under the statue.


----------



## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

hefe said:


> There have been several instances now of "don't let him speak to you..."


Soo... MIB has spoken to both Jack and Hurley. Are they out of play now? Are they on his side? What about Sawyer and crew?

So much to wrap up in just a few episodes.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Time to move.


Are you kidding? And give up 42% tax brackets, 13% sales tax on everything, $4 gas and 8 hour emergency room wait times? No way, not when there's talk of William Shatner becoming the next Governor General. Talk about the final frontier!


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

stlarenas said:


> Help me remember...
> 
> When watching this episode there a line Claire spoke (I think to Jack) that I thought was especially significant. I haven't seen it mentioned her yet.
> 
> It was something like (Claire to Jack): "you are already on his side (MIB's), you were as soon as you let him speak to you." Can anyone find the exact dialog?


Here's the dialogue, for the click-and-search challenged:

JACK: Actually, I havent-I havent decided if Im coming with you. 
CLAIRE: Yeah, you have. 
JACK: What do you mean? 
CLAIRE: You decided the moment you let him talk to you, just like the rest of us. So, yeah, whether you like it or not, you're with him now.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

eMarkM said:


> I'm pretty sure it's "against the rules" for MiB to directly kill a candidate. Maybe indirectly, like he got Jacob killed, but not by his own hand.  Otherwise, he'd have just "smoked" them and done the deed long ago. So I think there's some plausibility in having them all killed at once "indirectly". But I think they actually all have to leave together in order for MiB to get off the island, pretty much as he says. They just don't know what the consequences of his leaving will really be.


MiB's "rules of engagement" are certainly a mystery to me, and clearly a key to the denouement of the series.

In addition to the "no direct killing" rule that seems to exist (which I'm not actually sure applies to candidates or some other group or circumstances), there also has been some circumstantial evidence that there might be some sort of an "if he's attacked first" exception at play (e.g., he only killed Ilana's men after the hairy goony one shot at him, Richard made a big fuss about not shooting at FLocke when FLocke first saw Richard's group on the beach near the statue, and Dogen told Sayid to attack him before he spoke in what may have been a Dogen scheme to have MiB kill Sayid).


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

The main thing I don't understand, and seems to exist only to create some kind of dramatic tension, is the idea that "all the candidates have to leave with him". It just makes no sense. People are candidates because Jacob saw something in them and facilitated their lives in a way that led them to the island. First of all, it simply "worked out" that those whose candidate numbers correspond to "the" numbers. I think it's just a coincidence, because if he knew in advance that THESE six would be the final ones, then why bother bringing the other 98 in the first place?

But anyway, I don't get what the candidates have to do with MIB leaving, and how that works, since no one could have predicted exactly how many there would be. So if all 108 were alive and on the island, then they'd all have to go? But if it's just five left, then that's all he needs? There's no logic behind it. It's the same thing with season five's idea that all of the people who left have to go back in order to "recreate" what happened the first time. That always just struck me as the writers not knowing how to get everyone back and coming up with a magic answer. It's one of the *VERY* few story points that I always felt was kind of "meh", similar to this idea that MIB can't magically leave the island if he has Jacob's candidates with him. It also makes no sense that Jacob bred Illana for her entire life simply to come to the island and say "you guys are candidates to replace Jacob". Everything she knew, Richard could have done. Or someone else. It was just pointless to me. 

I'm hoping the MIB/Jacob episode coming up (I think) explains some of this stuff because it never really made sense. I get that MIB is supposed to be evil and Jacob wants to keep him there to protect the world, and that the candiates are people he picked for whatever reason to have his job, but I don't get a lot of these "rules" that seem to exist. I also hope the explain exactly what about MIB is so massive that he can physically "end the world". Of course I'd also like to know how a shape-shifting, mind-scanning, chain-sound-making pillar of smoke exists in the first place, but whatever.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Just watched now. Awesome. No time to read the whole thread so sorry if a smeek, but I thought the view Jack had after the missle shot with his head lying on the beach, looking at schrapnel (sp?) seemed a lot like when he was on the beach after the plane crashed.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

wprager said:


> Nope
> 
> There are always proxy services that allow you to pretend to be somewhere else but they systematically block those as well. They are very, very determined to not let anyone outside the US watch some stuff. And we're not talking about full episodes only; I could not watch some Chuck promo clips a while back either. Not happy.


I've never had a problem using a VPN service when I was out of the country.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Demandred said:


> I noticed that LAX Sun freaked out when she saw Locke. And not freaked out as in "Hey look it's my old buddy John Locke that I remember from the island". Freaked out as in "Hey look it's that evil guy, MIB." To me that puts a nail in the coffin (although maybe not the final nail) of the "sideways universe" theory. The events in LAX land must be happening *after* the events being shown on the island.


She could just as easily be recognizing him from the events of seasons 1-5.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> She could just as easily be recognizing him from the events of seasons 1-5.


I strongly disagree. Off island Sun just saw mobsters, patchy shot in the eye, and she was shot in the belly. But when she saw Locke, she PANICKED.. the impression I got was that she'd seen island Flocke do something HORRIFYING.

Hadn't realized it until now but we didn't see any resolution to that, did we? And we saw Sun in the hospital.


----------



## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Am I misremembering, or didn't "Christian" (MIB) try to lead Jack off a cliff in season 1? This also seems similar to "Dave" trying to get Hurley to jump off a cliff later on.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

I've been wondering about Desmond's role in the end-game, and it has led to all sorts of thoughts about the Island. 
- Oceanic 815 crashed as a direct result of Desmond's failing to push the button in the Swan hatch in time to prevent a release of a certain amount of electromagnetic energy. So one could claim that Desmond was *solely *responsible for the crash of Oceanic 815.
- But we've seen that Jacob used the Lighthouse to watch the "candidates" for years before they came to the Island. And we know that Jacob definitely touched Locke, Jack, Hurley, Sun & Jin, Kate, Sawyer, & Sayid (and possibly Ilana). 
- We know that when Jacob touched Richard in "Ab Aeterno," his touch was intended to grant immortality. Did Jacob intend to grant immortality to the others that he touched, as well? Is that why they survived the plane crash? Can Jacob's touch mean something else besides immortality? (it looks like fish don't get immortality) 
- Is it possible that, because of Desmond causing the plane crash, Jacob had to go back in time and grant each of the "candidates" belated "immortality?" 
- When he told a crumpled John Locke: "I'm sorry this happened to you," was he really saying "I'm sorry I'm bringing you back to life so you will eventually be suckered by MIB, killed by Benjamin Linus, and then MIB will take over your likeness?"
- Is Widmore's plan to recreate the conditions of the original Oceanic 815 crash by having Desmond create another electromagnetic event while the candidates are all together in the Ajira plane? As in Desmond caused the crash -- only he can undo it? 
- Does that mean Desmond has to go back to the Swan Hatch and somehow create an electromagnetic event there?
- Or is the plan to use the frozen donkey wheel to go back in time to 2004, and have Desmond either push the button "on time" this time, or does Desmond need to confront his 2004 self and tell him not to leave the hatch so he will be there to push the button while Oceanic 815 is overhead?
- If so, what does this mean for Desmond? If they can successfully undo the 2004 crash, will Desmond have to remain there until somebody else discovers him? Is that why Widmore is eager for this to happen -- so Desmond won't get back with Penny and have a child with her? 
- Where does Jack fit into all this? Wouldn't he have to be back on the plane for it to work?

I guess these questions all kinda revolve around the idea that the crash of Oceanic 815 was some kind of mistake, not something deliberately engineered by Jacob. Perhaps the candidates (or their children) were slated to arrive years later, and the crash caused by Desmond was an unusually-coincidental mistake?

I think Desmond is there to undo what he did in 2004. How that fits into the battle between MIB and Jacob, I don't know.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, the crash has already been undone, and that doesn't seem to have worked out too well...at least, not well enough for the show to already be over!


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jlb said:


> Just watched now. Awesome. No time to read the whole thread so sorry if a smeek, but I thought the view Jack had after the missle shot with his head lying on the beach, looking at schrapnel (sp?) seemed a lot like when he was on the beach after the plane crashed.


First, there is no "c" in "shrapnel" &#8230; and there are two "i"s in "missile". 
It seems to me that your memory is foggy. The first scene of the first episode of the first Season showed Jack face up amongst trees in the jungle. He followed Vincent to the beach and part of the wreckage.



T-Wolves said:


> We know that when Jacob touched Richard in "Ab Aeterno," his touch was intended to grant immortality. Did Jacob intend to grant immortality to the others that he touched, as well?


The short answer is "No".



jking said:


> Hope this isn't old news. Nice interview with Darlton on Wired.com...
> 
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/


I don't know if this bit from the interview was a spoiler, but has it been established that &#8230;


Spoiler



&#8230; the electromagnetic pulse generates a wormhole? That explains the shot after Dez was zapped by Widmore in the generator cabin where we are flying through the clouds before settling in on Dez looking at his reflection in the airport in LA X.


> _*Cuse:* It's inspirational. We try to connect the show with a plausible sense of scientific concepts, recognizing that of course we're ultimately telling a fictional narrative that is implausible. It has to make some kind of elemental scientific sense to us. It helps us as storytellers to say, OK, a massive amount of electromagnetism could create a wormhole that could allow someone to travel from the island, but that wormhole is unstable and sometimes they might pop up in Tunisia and it's 10 months earlier than they thought it was. Those kind of things help us. _


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

I was thinking a little today, and wondered - if, as Jacob says, this only ends once - why does Jacob need candidates? Candidates for what?

We've been talking about a candidate as if the candidate is a candidate to replace Jacob. But, what if it's something else? I don't know what - maybe the candidate to kill MiB? The candidate that makes the endgame happen?

I convinced myself today that the candidates are not candidates to replace Jacob. I just haven't worked out what they are candidates for.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Candidates for a beauty pageant, perhaps?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

What I want to know is, who votes in the election?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

getreal said:


> Candidates for a beauty pageant, perhaps?


Hurley is still in the running...?


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> But when she saw Locke, she PANICKED.. the impression I got was that she'd seen island Flocke do something HORRIFYING.


I don't still have it to rewatch, but I didn't get a sense of fear as much of as surprise, but I could well be wrong about that.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hunter Green said:


> I don't still have it to rewatch, but I didn't get a sense of fear as much of as surprise, but I could well be wrong about that.


I got a feeling of terror.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Definitely panic. I didn't catch that the first time I watched either.


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

I haven't seen any speculation about this yet for this episode. Who expects Jack to cure Locke's paralysis while treating his "run over by Desmond" injuries?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

ronsch said:


> I haven't seen any speculation about this yet for this episode. Who expects Jack to cure Locke's paralysis while treating his "run over by Desmond" injuries?


Oh of course. And they said something about his dural sack (?) bring obliterated, which is why they called him in. That's what Jack fixed before.. One or more of these times (don't remember): his wife in the orig timeline, the girl in his story to Kate (was that the same girl? His wife?), and Ben after he deliberately cut it. Check my memory before basing any conclusions or theories on that.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Oh of course. And they said something about his dural sack (?) bring obliterated, which is why they called him in. That's what Jack fixed before.. One or more of these times (don't remember): his wife in the orig timeline, the girl in his story to Kate (was that the same girl? His wife?), and Ben after he deliberately cut it. Check my memory before basing any conclusions or theories on that.


It was the patient in his story to Kate (not his wife) and the only reason he fixed it I think is because he was the one who screwed it up in the first place by accidentally cutting into it. For the Ben surgery, I think it was a small incision he made into his kidney sack.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jking said:


> It was the patient in his story to Kate (not his wife) and the only reason he fixed it I think is because he was the one who screwed it up in the first place by accidentally cutting into it. For the Ben surgery, I think it was a small incision he made into his kidney sack.


Huh... for some reason I thought that there was a later reveal that the patient in his story to Kate was his wife. He "met" her on the operating table, and later married her after miraculously repairing her.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> Huh... for some reason I thought that there was a later reveal that the patient in his story to Kate was his wife. He "met" her on the operating table, and later married her after miraculously repairing her.


No, the story to Kate was about his first (?) solo surgery, which he botched and panicked, and his Dad got him to calm down and fix it. That was a different surgery than his (future) wife, which happened when he was an established spinal surgeon.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

danterner said:


> Huh... for some reason I thought that there was a later reveal that the patient in his story to Kate was his wife. He "met" her on the operating table, and later married her after miraculously repairing her.


Actually, IIRC, his wife is the one who had the accident with Shannon's Dad. In the story he first told Kate about the dural sack, he mentioned it was a teenage girl.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I got a feeling of terror.


Absolutely. Shock and fear.

I still can't believe this series is over soon... I feel like I will actually be sad when it's gone.


----------



## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

Lost spoiler if interested......



Spoiler



http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/04/lostcall1.jpg


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The link is to a JPG of what appears to be a call sheet for the final episode of LOST, including the episode title and some scene descriptions. Major spoilers if it's real. Is it real? I wouldn't know a call sheet from a Kinko's flyer and I quickly closed the window before seeing much of anything anyway once I realized there were actual spoilers, so I can't give any opinions. I guess next month we can go look and see


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

A warning to everyone. Tonight's show is a repeat.


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

I wonder if there is any significance to which episode they are repeating?

Something we should really be paying attention to in it?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

balboa dave said:


> A warning to everyone. Tonight's show is


Dude! Spoiler tags!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But is it really a repeat?

Or are we, the viewers, unstuck in time?

Will what happened happen?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But is it really a repeat?
> 
> Or are we, the viewers, unstuck in time?
> 
> Will what happened happen?


In the sideways universe, LOST episodes have pop-up bubbles.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

ronsch said:


> I wonder if there is any significance to which episode they are repeating?
> 
> Something we should really be paying attention to in it?


It's Ab Aeterno. My guess, and it's purely speculation, is of all the episodes this season, that's the best candidate for Emmy nomination (not for actors, but for Lost itself) because it's the most self contained, so they're repeating it for Emmy consideration. That and it gives an additional week to extend out to May 23.

Greg


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

madscientist said:


> The link is to a JPG of what appears to be a call sheet for the final episode of LOST, including the episode title and some scene descriptions. Major spoilers if it's real. Is it real? I wouldn't know a call sheet from a Kinko's flyer and I quickly closed the window before seeing much of anything anyway once I realized there were actual spoilers, so I can't give any opinions. I guess next month we can go look and see


I could not look away 

Warning to everyone: DO NOT LOOK!!!!!!!

I'm hoping it's a fake, but I've saved a copy to the desktop to check in the end.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gchance said:


> My guess, and it's purely speculation &#8230; <snip>





gchance said:


> My guess, and it's purely speculation &#8230; <snip>


I see what you did there, Greg.  But there are no Emmy considerations for repeated TiVO posts.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

getreal said:


> I see what you did there, Greg.  But there are no Emmy considerations for repeated TiVO posts.


What the hell? That was an EDIT!

I have one word. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

Greg


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

The timing of Locke's flash-sideways and Jin/Sun's doesn't seem to make sense. We see Sun arriving at the hospital at the same time as Locke. In the previous episodes we are given the impression that Locke has been back home in LA for at least a week when he is hit by Desmond; while Sun was shot just a day or so after flight 815... I don't know what to make of it, but it's weird...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> It's Ab Aeterno. My guess, and it's purely speculation, is of all the episodes this season, that's the best candidate for Emmy nomination (not for actors, but for Lost itself) because it's the most self contained, so they're repeating it for Emmy consideration. That and it gives an additional week to extend out to May 23.
> 
> Greg


While I'm sure they'll be submitting this episode for an Emmy, I seriously doubt that whether the episode is rerun or not will have any bearing on whether the show will be nominated for or win the award. The producers send in screeners for the episodes they choose to submit, and those are watched by whoever does the nominating. Then, once the nominees are announced, screeners are sent to the voters. So whether they originally saw the episode on March 23, or on April 27, or sometime in the summer from a screener copy, it won't really matter.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> The timing of Locke's flash-sideways and Jin/Sun's doesn't seem to make sense. We see Sun arriving at the hospital at the same time as Locke. In the previous episodes we are given the impression that Locke has been back home in LA for at least a week when he is hit by Desmond; while Sun was shot just a day or so after flight 815... I don't know what to make of it, but it's weird...


Maybe Jin was in the freezer for a lot longer than we originally thought. Or maybe he was detained at the airport for longer than we thought.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> The timing of Locke's flash-sideways and Jin/Sun's doesn't seem to make sense. We see Sun arriving at the hospital at the same time as Locke. In the previous episodes we are given the impression that Locke has been back home in LA for at least a week when he is hit by Desmond; while Sun was shot just a day or so after flight 815... I don't know what to make of it, but it's weird...


That's a good catch. Locke has been back long enough to get fired from the box company and hired as a substitute teacher.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

gchance said:


> It's Ab Aeterno. My guess, and it's purely speculation, is of all the episodes this season, that's the best candidate for Emmy nomination (not for actors, but for Lost itself) because it's the most self contained, so they're repeating it for Emmy consideration. That and it gives an additional week to extend out to May 23.
> 
> Greg


I could be wrong, but they HAD been airing last weeks episode (with pop-ups)just before the current one. Then they quit airing the reruns. I think Ab Aeterno would have been the next one, so they are just going in sequence. To be sure, I'd have to check.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

wprager said:


> I could not look away
> 
> Warning to everyone: DO NOT LOOK!!!!!!!
> 
> I'm hoping it's a fake, but I've saved a copy to the desktop to check in the end.


I used to read spoilers, but I've been avoiding them the last couple of months. I knew better than to click that link.

So...when this is all over - can you repost and tell us whether it's right?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> I could be wrong, but they HAD been airing last weeks episode (with pop-ups)just before the current one. Then they quit airing the reruns. I think Ab Aeterno would have been the next one, so they are just going in sequence. To be sure, I'd have to check.


That's correct. Ab Aeterno was aired on March 23 and the first results show for this season of Dancing with the Stars aired on March 30, in the slot where the Lost pop-up reruns had been airing.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

Alpinemaps said:


> I was thinking a little today, and wondered - if, as Jacob says, this only ends once - why does Jacob need candidates? Candidates for what?
> 
> We've been talking about a candidate as if the candidate is a candidate to replace Jacob. But, what if it's something else? I don't know what - maybe the candidate to kill MiB? The candidate that makes the endgame happen?
> 
> I convinced myself today that the candidates are not candidates to replace Jacob. I just haven't worked out what they are candidates for.


I think you're on to something here -- IIRC, Jacob said that he believed that there were good people -- people who would make the right choices. I think that's what they are candidates for -- the one who will make the right choice and end "the game".


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

latrobe7 said:


> The timing of Locke's flash-sideways and Jin/Sun's doesn't seem to make sense. We see Sun arriving at the hospital at the same time as Locke. In the previous episodes we are given the impression that Locke has been back home in LA for at least a week when he is hit by Desmond; while Sun was shot just a day or so after flight 815... I don't know what to make of it, but it's weird...


Yeah, I heard that on a podcast this week, and I thought, duh, why didn't I catch that? If it's a continuity mistake, it would be a massive one. Perhaps it's pointing to the artificiality of the sideways world.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> I think you're on to something here -- IIRC, Jacob said that he believed that there were good people -- people who would make the right choices. I think that's what they are candidates for -- the one who will make the right choice and end "the game".


If you're thinking of the scene that I am (from The Incident), Jacob doesn't say anything specifically about there being good people or making right choices. He simply said ... well, here's the relevant dialogue:

JACOB: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.
MAN IN BLACK: I am. How did they find the Island?
JACOB: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.
MAN IN BLACK: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. *Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?*
JACOB: *You are wrong.*
MAN IN BLACK: *Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.*
JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

Sure, a fairly obvious interpretation of the thing Jacob thinks MIB is wrong about is whether people can be "good," but there are alternate possibilities, and the behavior noted by MIB (fighting, destroying, corruption) doesn't really deal with choices so much as just innate human nature.

Although your theory has some innate logical sense, it doesn't quite sit right with me. The Lost crew in general, throughout six seasons, has shown itself to be a fairly immoral bunch - murdering, thieving, torturing, revenge-driven, backstabbing, lying, selfish, gluttony, cheating, etc. There's noone I think of as having a particularly keen moral compass, and some are downright morally bankrupt (e.g., Ben). And now in one final episode they're going to have a chance to make a "right" moral choice that proves mankind is "good," whereas apparently numerous others have previously failed to make such a right decision? That's hard for me to accept.

I don't really want the future of humanity resting on a moral decision by Sawyer, Ben, Sayid and/or Kate.


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## Talon (Dec 5, 2001)

GDG76 said:


> I'm not really loving the way they are wrapping this up. The show is still great, but I guess it's not the season I imagined at all. Probably because I liked all the Dharma/hatch/Others stuff the most, and that doesn't seem to mean squat to this season or really to the whole story arc at all...
> 
> I liked Dharma because it was just people and some crazy mysterious island. The whole Jacob vs. Smoke Monster thing and their age old struggle.. I don't really care about it. We haven't seen Jacob or Smokey enough to care about who wins. I don't really care about the sideways anymore either.
> 
> I'm sure they'll wrap it up nice and as I said, still a great show, but it seems more and more at the end, I'm always saying "that's it"? I know that's unfair to the show but they're the ones who set the bar so damn high with the last 5 seasons


Glad you said this, I happen to agree except for one thing. The show is no longer great (IMO of course). Its merely good now and that is because of the great acting work by the cast.

I'm still watching and will finish it up since I have invested so much time, but agree that the ditching of the Dharma story and its relevance hurt the show (for me). Now there is just too much walking around, this person sides with that group, and then back again etc., walk around some more, not really advancing things much. New people and groups just show up. Far too much left to interpretation or not making sense at all.

For me, at the end of last season it had me back, fully engaged. The whole bomb storyline worked well. But this season seems to be just meandering along. I'm still hoping for a good series finale, though I'm not sure its possible at this point.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I'm still loving the show; but I hear what you guys are saying. I think season 2 is my favorite because of all the Dharma mysteries, like the blast door map and the Pearl, etc. I didn't even feel like I got enough Dharma from season 5 and I don't think we'll get any more!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Talon said:


> Glad you said this, I happen to agree except for one thing. The show is no longer great (IMO of course). Its merely good now and that is because of the great acting work by the cast.
> 
> I'm still watching and will finish it up since I have invested so much time, but agree that the ditching of the Dharma story and its relevance hurt the show (for me). Now there is just too much walking around, this person sides with that group, and then back again etc., walk around some more, not really advancing things much. New people and groups just show up. Far too much left to interpretation or not making sense at all.
> 
> For me, at the end of last season it had me back, fully engaged. The whole bomb storyline worked well. But this season seems to be just meandering along. I'm still hoping for a good series finale, though I'm not sure its possible at this point.


I agree totally. At the end of last season, with the Jacob/MIB scene, I had this strange feeling that I invested 5 years in one story line and the whole thing is all a big game between those two. I agree, the Dharma/Others stuff was much more engaging. If they had continued the whole Jacob was made up by Ben thing that they were insinuating, then I would have been ok with that (although some things that happened would have been harder to explain). I still don't even have a feel yet for why some of the major things have happened. But I'm still enjoying it, and I can't wait to see how it plays out.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

On the Locke timeline issue - is it possible that he was at the school to interview for the job? This might make it work out better.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

mostman said:


> On the Locke timeline issue - is it possible that he was at the school to interview for the job? This might make it work out better.


That would imply that all the scenes where he was already working there happened after he got hit by the car. That doesn't really makes sense, and I also have a feeling we will see stuff soon that will make that impossible. I think major stuff happens to everyone now that they're all at the hospital, and Mr. Locke doesn't just go back to being a substitute teacher.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Well I for one have no qualms at all (I'd really like to see the changing picture frame explained somehow, but I doubt it, but still).. Totally loving the season, the series, I can't wait to see more, and I'll be horribly sad when it's gone.

28.5 hours left.


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