# DLP vs. LCD vs. Plasma ???



## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

What would be the best to go for, they all seem nice but I've noticed a benefit of DLP's is that I could get something as big as oh lets say a 65" DLP for about the cost of a 52" LCD.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

It depends on what you want. Rear projection gives you the most screen size for the buck, but it is fading fast as consumers overwhelmingly prefer LCD and, to a lesser extent, plasma. Most major manufacturers have dropped RPTV entirely or have relegated it to the low end of their lines.

It is true that if you want a big screen, over 52", your choices in LCD are few and expensive. Plasma sets are still available in those sizes, but there are fewer choices than before and they're still pricey.

If you want a big picture with the best quality in a self-contained unit (not front projection), then plasma is generally the way to go. If 52" or so will do, then look at LCD. If cost is the biggest factor, then DLP (or D-ILA) will get you a great picture for less money. LCD sets are getting better and better (and cheaper) each year.

(I am sticking with my Sony SXRD rear-projection set - 60". Sony no longer makes them.)


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

Having owned a 46" DLP and a 52" LCD and of course having seen Plasma in store displays, here's my 2 cents.
Plasma has maybe the brightest and best contrast but for me the reflections off the screen immediately put it at the bottom of my list. I guess it's OK if you always watch TV in a darkened room.

For me DLP and LCD are comparable with DLP getting the slight edge in both contrast and brightness. In my experience my DLP lamp lost brightness gradually, some say it maintains brightness until one day...poof! You'd better have a spare on hand.


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## Len McRiddles (Dec 21, 2002)

stevel said:


> (I am sticking with my Sony SXRD rear-projection set - 60". Sony no longer makes them.)


I got one of these (KDS-60A2000) as a gift in 2006, and really like the set.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I have a 51-inch Hitachi rear projection 51UWX20B that is now 7 years old. My friends tell me repeatedly that it has the best quality, most natural-looking picture they've seen in a big-screen set. I also have a 32-inch Toshiba 32AV502U LCD which has pretty nice PQ...but it doesn't match the natural image of the rear projection Hitachi (which they no longer offer).


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

I am in the market for a LCD 42" or 46" (bright room, direct viewing angle and sit about 10-11 feet from screen) in the next 1-3 months and am now weighing my options. A couple of questions to add into this thread....

1. What are people's opinion of 120Mhz? I know the advantages of 120Mhz include better rendering (faster) for sports programs and fast moving action, but does that feature degrade the image for standard programs (like childrens shows or sitcoms)? 

2. I am planning on buying a TiVoHD, but how bad is the image from a S2 on a LCD? Is it really bad, since the larger screen and higher PQ highlight the flaws in the image?

3. Any major brands that people really dislike? I would consider any of the major brands (Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Toshiba, etc). Also, is there a major difference between the models that you can buy at Costco vs. Best Buy? Are the Costco models stripped down versions?

Thanks.


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## trussrules (Oct 4, 2007)

jjberger2134 said:


> 2. I am planning on buying a TiVoHD, but how bad is the image from a S2 on a LCD? Is it really bad, since the larger screen and higher PQ highlight the flaws in the image?


I ran a S2 on my LCD for a month or so before I got the TiVo HD. The quality of the video depends on how well the TV you get handles SD content and honestly most TV's these days do a pretty good job. HD looks much better obviously and access to my cable companies HD channels (I get about 60 of them here) is what ultimately pushed me to get the TiVo HD - the rest of the channels are in SD and they look the same as they did with the Series 2 (because the TiVo HD just passes the 480i signal out to my TV which handles the up-converting).


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

omnibus said:


> Having owned a 46" DLP and a 52" LCD and of course having seen Plasma in store displays, here's my 2 cents.
> Plasma has maybe the brightest and best contrast but for me the reflections off the screen immediately put it at the bottom of my list. I guess it's OK if you always watch TV in a darkened room.
> 
> For me DLP and LCD are comparable with DLP getting the slight edge in both contrast and brightness. In my experience my DLP lamp lost brightness gradually, some say it maintains brightness until one day...poof! You'd better have a spare on hand.


Having bright contrast doesn't make a set better, just brighter and more likely out of calibration. A properly calibrated set will tend to be much darker than what you'll see in a showroom, but it will also look more lifelike and vivid. Virtually all sets have their contrast set to maximum by default so they'll stand out against other sets in a dealer's display setup. Probably the best judge of a TV is how well it can produce black levels. In other words, when you look at a dark scene, are the black areas actually black or just a dark shade of gray?

Plasmas are supposed to be quite good at displaying proper black levels but LCDs are getting better at it all the time. Both types of sets tend to be more expensive than a comparably sized RPTV and a much, much heavier by comparison. The latest and greatest HDTV technology is the LED display, but there aren't too many of them on the market yet. If you can find one to audition I'd highly recommend checking it out. Since they're new to the market expect a higher price tag to be an early adopter of the format.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

I think dlp has a better video but you cant hang it on the wall. I am still using a 48" crt rptv. It still works fine and dont plan to replace it anytime soon. But i think about all that floor space i could save if i had a wall mounted tv.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

omnibus said:


> Having owned a 46" DLP and a 52" LCD and of course having seen Plasma in store displays, here's my 2 cents.
> Plasma has maybe the brightest and best contrast but for me the reflections off the screen immediately put it at the bottom of my list. I guess it's OK if you always watch TV in a darkened room.
> 
> For me DLP and LCD are comparable with DLP getting the slight edge in both contrast and brightness. In my experience my DLP lamp lost brightness gradually, some say it maintains brightness until one day...poof! You'd better have a spare on hand.


actually the screen coating/surfacing varies with model. And that's a great point to bring up.

Samsung for instance has tons of different models for their LCDs and plasmas. Go to a best buy and look at the giant wall. You will see that some models have a high gloss screen which helps with contrast (the models with the highest contrast have the highest gloss), and others with the same features/size/etc have a different digit in the model number and have a more matte screen to help with glare. My Living room has southern facing patio doors- it's a mess with glare so i specificly hunted down a matt finish LCD. Usually the plasma's are all glossy- the LCD's have choices.

the bulbs in the RPTV's are a pain. I have(had) a 50" LCD RPTV- about 6 years old. been through 3 bulbs and at 100+ a pop that's something for sure to factor in. Now it seems the ballest is shot- my Brother in law bought the same set and it's ballest crapped after 5 years too. It's like 600 to fix that. So I wont be bothered. Luckily i just bought a new 1080p LCD 52" direct view and moved that old set to the basement for the kids a few months ago- so they'll need to go back to the old CRT they used to have.

The break point on the LCD's seems to be the 50ish inch sets. You can get the 60ish sets but they are like mulitples of the price of the 50's instead of an incremental increase like there is for the medium sizes.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jjberger2134 said:


> I am in the market for a LCD 42" or 46" (bright room, direct viewing angle and sit about 10-11 feet from screen) in the next 1-3 months and am now weighing my options. A couple of questions to add into this thread....
> 
> 1. What are people's opinion of 120Mhz? I know the advantages of 120Mhz include better rendering (faster) for sports programs and fast moving action, but does that feature degrade the image for standard programs (like childrens shows or sitcoms)?
> 
> ...


as above- I'd say be sure to SEE the different models and check the screen finish for glare.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I have both a 61 inch Samsung DLP and 41 inch Samsung LCD. They are both excellent.
I think the reason that rear projection TVs are going out is the Wife Acceptance Factor. They are not "thin" like an LCD or Plasma, and take up too much space.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> I have both a 61 inch Samsung DLP and 41 inch Samsung LCD. They are both excellent.
> I think the reason that rear projection TVs are going out is the Wife Acceptance Factor. They are not "thin" like an LCD or Plasma, and take up too much space.


agreed- plus after having one for a long while I'd say the bulb's really are a real world draw back.

they do significantly degrade over time. And then eventually they just die. And it's not like you can go over to the rat shack or best buy or staples and pick one up. So unless you keep one lying around you have to wait a couple days to get it shipped.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I'm still on the original bulb of my 2005 KDS-R60XBR1, though I do have a spare.

As others have noted, screen reflection varies a lot among model lines, as does viewing angle. The more you pay, the better the picture tends to be.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I had to replace both my bulb and my light engine (separately), but it was under warranty. And under the newer LED models, I don't think that's a problem.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Right now what I have my eye on is a 52" LCD Sony Bravia... I figure a 52" should be good enough for me to really enjoy the HD experience as it's called and should be a good size for my bedroom with a viewing distance of my face to the TV of about 10' - 12' but will be more precise once I measure it. I only asked this question because I starting thinking maybe I should change my mind but bigger doesnt always mean better.


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> Having bright contrast doesn't make a set better, just brighter and more likely out of calibration. A properly calibrated set will tend to be much darker than what you'll see in a showroom, but it will also look more lifelike and vivid. Virtually all sets have their contrast set to maximum by default so they'll stand out against other sets in a dealer's display setup. Probably the best judge of a TV is how well it can produce black levels. In other words, when you look at a dark scene, are the black areas actually black or just a dark shade of gray?
> 
> Plasmas are supposed to be quite good at displaying proper black levels but LCDs are getting better at it all the time. Both types of sets tend to be more expensive than a comparably sized RPTV and a much, much heavier by comparison. The latest and greatest HDTV technology is the LED display, but there aren't too many of them on the market yet. If you can find one to audition I'd highly recommend checking it out. Since they're new to the market expect a higher price tag to be an early adopter of the format.


Every TV I've ever owned has had separate controls for brightness and for contrast. Contrast is a measure of black level, generally the blacker the better or higher contrast. Brightness is dependent on room illumination, many sets have photocells to automatically adjust brightness.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

stevel said:


> (I am sticking with my Sony SXRD rear-projection set - 60". Sony no longer makes them.)


I bought a 55 inch KDS55A3000 last year LOVE it.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> the bulbs in the RPTV's are a pain. I have(had) a 50" LCD RPTV- about 6 years old. been through 3 bulbs and at 100+ a pop that's something for sure to factor in.


3 bulbs in 6 years seems a bit out of the ordinary, I've had my RCA DLP for almost exactly 3 years and I'm still on the original bulb.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Top choices in displays for those without direct sunlight hitting the screen:


*Pioneer 60" KRP-600M and 50" KRP-500M*

*Pros:* Offers the best picture available in a 60" for under $3000. Best color accuracy and video processing available in a TV for less than $3000. Picture "knocks the socks off" the Sony and Samsung LCDs in rooms without _bright_ lighting. Perfect size for viewing from 8' to 12'. Just 2.5" deep.

*Cons:* No built-in speakers so you need your own surround system; mount and stand sold separately. Only two HDMI inputs. Not available at major retailers. At $1900-$2000, 50" version is more expensive than other 50" models.

*Notes:* This display is virtually identical to the Pioneer 60" PRO-141FD KURO monitor, except it is 2.5" deep instead of 3.75" deep, has 2x HDMI inputs instead of 4x, and lacks the ISFcc calibration menu.

*Where to buy:* Invision Displays, ValueEletronics, BestBuyPlasma, Coza, and Satellite & Sound.

*Settings:*

Recommended settings for Pioneer KRP-500M

Recommended settings for Panasonic KRP-600M

*Panasonic 54" TC-P54G10 and 50" TC-P50G10
(58" version coming this summer)*

*Pros:* Best picture available aside from the Pioneer. Best motion performance available. Lower-cost. Available at most major retailers.

*Cons:* Contrast, black levels, color accuracy, and video processing not as good as Pioneer. Only available in smaller sizes; not optimal for viewing from more than 10'.

*Reviews:*: Cnet, HDGuru

*Where to buy:* 54" version is $2199 @ Best Buy and $1800-$1999 shipped @ Amazon.com. 50" version is $1799 @ Best Buy or ~$1450 shipped @ Amazon.com

*Settings:*

Recommended settings for Panasonic TC-P46G10 (use these settings when they are posted)

Recommended settings for Panasonic TC-P50G10 (use these settings when they are posted)


The upcoming Panasonic TC-P54V1 and TC-P50V1 adds improved 24p playback and an extra HDMI input. That would replace the G10 series as my #2.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Right now what I have my eye on is a 52" LCD Sony Bravia... I figure a 52" should be good enough for me to really enjoy the HD experience as it's called and should be a good size for my bedroom with a viewing distance of my face to the TV of about 10' - 12' but will be more precise once I measure it. I only asked this question because I starting thinking maybe I should change my mind but bigger doesnt always mean better.


You should look at some of the viewing distance calculators online. I would think at 10 feet, 52 inches might be a tad to large. Getting the correct size is a huge decision. In many ways, it can be more important than the actual model of tv you get (especially if you get the wrong size).


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

No, at 10 feet 52" is bordering on too small.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

rainwater said:


> You should look at some of the viewing distance calculators online. I would think at 10 feet, 52 inches might be a tad to large..






stevel said:


> No, at 10 feet 52" is bordering on too small.


:up:

For a 10' viewing distance, one should be looking at 55-60" plasmas and LCDs and/or 60-65" DLPs. Don't even consider something smaller unless (a) you have 20/10 vision, or (b) your wife will consider it grounds for divorce.

For the best possible high-definition viewing experience, you should look for a display size within the red shaded area below. If you're above the green line, you won't resolve HD resolution.


Resolvable resolution with 20/20 vision. Click for larger.

At 10', the red area covers the range of 56" (small benefit from 1080 resolution) to 70" (large benefit from 1080 resolution). At that distance, I would not consider anything less than 52" and I would go larger if you can.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

What I keep hearing is that nobody every regrets buying a screen "too big".


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Langree said:


> 3 bulbs in 6 years seems a bit out of the ordinary, I've had my RCA DLP for almost exactly 3 years and I'm still on the original bulb.


happened to be hunting for a new cheap bulb today and apparently the Panasonic LCD's RP's are on the shorter end of things- something about crappy ballasts killing bulbs prematurely.

But I'll say this for sure- the bulbs degrade over time. when the time comes for you to change your's you'll be amazed how much brighter the set gets- it's so noticable when you change the bulb that even not having use of the set for a couple days while you wait for one to ship it's startling when you first turn it on with the new bulb.

I dont know what they backlight the flat panels with- i think i read once it's a flourescent tube- but not sure. I dont know why they seem to last so much longer.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Top choices in displays for those without direct sunlight hitting the screen:
> 
> 
> *Pioneer 60" KRP-600M and 50" KRP-500M*
> ...


what's the screen finish like on those?

something that wont pick up glare from external lighting is much more pleasurable in a room with southern exposure and lots of windows.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> But I'll say this for sure- the bulbs degrade over time. when the time comes for you to change your's you'll be amazed how much brighter the set gets- it's so noticable when you change the bulb that even not having use of the set for a couple days while you wait for one to ship it's startling when you first turn it on with the new bulb.


When I was shopping around, I considered that a plus, when I do replace the bulb, it'll be like new again. Can't do that when the other types fade.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

stevel said:


> What I keep hearing is that nobody every regrets buying a screen "too big".


agreed- that's my only significant advice when people ask me. When people are used to SD- they see how big the HDtv's are and freak. I warn them all to get as big as they feel comfortable with and then get the next biggest. Once you have if home for a couple months you start wishing you had bigger.

Even my wife feels the same way and she could hardly care less about the subject. So it's not just a gadget freak.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Langree said:


> When I was shopping around, I considered that a plus, when I do replace the bulb, it'll be like new again. Can't do that when the other types fade.


that's a way to look at it for sure.

when you change the bulb (and I only got 2-3 years out of mine)- it's like "WOW"- like you say - like a new set. (except the fact that mine was 720p and not 1080- laughing)


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> what's the screen finish like on those?
> 
> something that wont pick up glare from external lighting is much more pleasurable in a room with southern exposure and lots of windows.


Both have anti-glare [glass] screens.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> :up:
> 
> For a 10' viewing distance, one should be looking at 55-60" plasmas and LCDs and/or 60-65" DLPs. Don't even consider something smaller unless (a) you have 20/10 vision, or (b) your wife will consider it grounds for divorce.
> 
> For the best possible high-definition viewing experience, you should look for a display size within the red shaded area below. If you're above the green line, you won't resolve HD resolution.


I believe the poster was referring to a bedroom. Using the 1080p guideline is definitely overkill for a bedroom. Especially when you consider that there will be times you will be viewing a distances closer than the max if this is going to be viewed from a bed. Also, most people do not setup expensive surround sound systems in a bedroom so it probably would not be viewed as the main tv for movie viewing. If you put a 60in plasma in a master bedroom, you better have a large bedroom, or you are going to have a television that is way too bright at night and looks like an eye sore because of its size.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> agreed- that's my only significant advice when people ask me. When people are used to SD- they see how big the HDtv's are and freak. I warn them all to get as big as they feel comfortable with and then get the next biggest. Once you have if home for a couple months you start wishing you had bigger.
> 
> Even my wife feels the same way and she could hardly care less about the subject. So it's not just a gadget freak.


Some people try to compare the size of a 4:3 to a widescreen and realize the vertical height is much smaller compared to a 4:3 tv. This is why it is best to create a cardboard cut out and place it in the room to see how it will look. Of course you can't simulate watching tv. This is why I like to buy locally, so it is easy to return.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I believe the poster was referring to a bedroom. Using the 1080p guideline is definitely overkill for a bedroom. Especially when you consider that there will be times you will be viewing a distances closer than the max if this is going to be viewed from a bed. Also, most people do not setup expensive surround sound systems in a bedroom so it probably would not be viewed as the main tv for moving viewing. If you put a 60in plasma in a master bedroom, you better have a large bedroom, or you are going to have a television that is way too bright at night and looks like an eye sore because of its size.


turn down the brightness - laughing.

kidding aside I never thought of that. Would be something to consider i suppose

I will say I have a 37 in my bedroom- basically it was all that i could fit on the wall between 2 doorways. My head is probably 10-12 feet from the tivo when i watch it. I squint to read text at times and I have 20/20 vision with my glasses on. Maybe a 42 would cut it but I dont think I'd be freaked to put a 52 inch in at all if i had a way to do it.

my set does have the sensor to adjust brightnest to ambiant lighting- so maybe that's a factor.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Some people try to compare the size of a 4:3 to a widescreen and realize the vertical height is much smaller compared to a 4:3 tv. This is why it is best to create a cardboard cut out and place it in the room to see how it will look. Of course you can't simulate watching tv. This is why I like to buy locally, so it is easy to return.


i think it's just so intimidating going from like a 35-39 inch SD CRT that so many used to have to a 50 inch. Maybe 49 inches would sound better (weren't there tons of 48 inches years back?). But comparing height is very wize- still even the same height at the same distance wouldn't be big enough though.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Well, it would seem that the consensus is a 52" is ok but I should shoot for soemthing like a 55" or 60". But I spend most of my time in my room aside from when I'm out working or just out. So ya, regardless of the TV I get when I get it for the BR it will be used as my primary TV as I rarely watch TV downstairs which I do on occasion. As for direct sunlight, there would be one window to the right of the TV about oh lets say 6' give or take and one window directly infront of it behind the bed which would be oh let say about 14' - 16' from the wall where the TV would be mounted.

But ya the distance from my face to the TV I'm guessing should be about 10' to 12' as origianlly stated (havent measured it out yet so might be a foot or two more if not less).

As someone said in this post I havent heard of anyone complaing about bigger TV's but there is such a thing as to big be it the living room or bedroom tv so I'm thinking the ideal size for me at 10' to 14' (padded original figure for safety) would be around 55" even though thats only another 3" ontop of the current 52" set that I got my eye on.

Edit: Back to the whole reason behind the post... I'm still unsure about the whole LCD, Plasma, DLP thing. DLP sounds like it might be the winner from what I've been reading on TI's website and other sources.

Ps; My current TV is a 27" CRT so regardless of what I do get size wise or even format wise (LCD, Plasma, DLP) whatever I do get will be one hell of an improvement.

Edit 2: Here's a 55" Vizio I found that "seems" nice. Has 5 HDMI inputs among other things and its around my price range ($2k or lower), the only thing I didnt see which I'm gonna go back and look for is the sound.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

I recently went through all those same sorts of trade-off analysis myself. I was replacing a 60" RPTV and found that a ~50 unit would be the same width and therefore would meet the WAF test. I looked into all the same options and ended up going with a Pioneer PDP-5020FD Plasma. My viewing room is relatively dark with no direct windows, so reflections are not a major issue. My viewing room is relatively dark so black levels matter. I have seen LCDs in hotel rooms that were horrible at black levels, I simply could not imagine trying to watch Blade Runner or another dark movie on one of those. My seating arrangement is widely scattered, plasmas provide the best picture off angle viewers without the colors washing out the way they do on LCDs.

I was worried about negatives with Plasmas, but checked with knowledgeable people and over at AVS forums and found that there really was nothing to worry about.

I also like the way it upscales the SD signal from my Humax DVD burner TiVo DVR. Some people have complained that SD signals played back on an HD set would look really bad, but they are far better than anything I could get out of my older television. It seems Plasmas in general do this little trick much better than LCDs. Now the SD signal is nowhere near as nice as true HD, but if you are planning to feed any kind of SD signal to it, it may be worth consideration.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

About 15 months back is when I was into the thick of all of this for myself. First TV purchase ever (no really-big upgrade from a CRT 19" to a 52") so wanted to do it right. Then at least, and maybe for personal reasons, I ruled out the RPTV's pretty quick, mainly because I didn't want to mess with bulbs that much, and so felt that the cheaper up front cost was negated by the time and money spent later to replace bulbs etc.

So, for me it became between plasma and LCD; and *for me LCD won overall because*
1a)they have way less burn in effect (though they still can get some) vs a plasma;which was good for me partly because simply using a tivo that may be paused for a while before resuming program, most tv stations have their id's in a corner, which never moves so if watching one channel for a long time, that logo will get burned in more so on a plasma
1b)no regularly scheduled "super bright screen" to fix the burn in,like the plasmas do
2)And one I stumbled upon; on average the LCD is the cheapest tv type to repair over plasmas and RPTV... at least 15 months ago it was. And this was sited on several web sites though I don't recall where. I think I just used google with something like "most reliable tv type" or "cheapest tv type to repair", or probably "LCD versus plasma versus projection".

Longevity of the plasmas are about the same as LCD's now; and the hours of run time is pretty high. Once either one "goes dim" or back-light goes bad, they are fixable and won't happen near as often as the RPTV's will.

Upscaling from SD source is a mute point to me as far as type of tv, because each manufacturer and each model of the manufacturer will handle things a little differently. So it really comes down to the quality of the components used for the upscale from SD; how well you like the picture on the screen, and brightness in the room to a lesser degree now that LCD's are catching up with that pretty good lately from what I've heard.

My two cents, good luck and I do agree about aesthetics with tv size in a bedroom, I'd personally think for a bedroom 52" should do you fine. Oh, and I at that time chose a Sharp Aquos 52D92U which is one of the newest ones, the older ones had a lot of problems with uneven back lighting, but mine seems fine, plus 120Hz, plenty of HDMI inputs and even a DVI input in case I wanted to plug in a computer.  Anyhew...

Now to answer jjberger2134:
1)Personally think go for the 120 Hz thing, if for some reason you don't like it, just turn it off; and most tv's now will have settings saved for each input, so say the tivo input has it off but our DVD/Blu_ray player input has it on, and the tv keeps it that way. Yes, basically it helps smooth over fast action scenes usually found in some sports program, some cartoons, and action movies. Just like the SD upconversion though, each make and model will do it differently. So my understanding is it should not effect the picture at all for regular programming, again may be model specific though.

2)S2 video quality on an LCD or any other 1080p tv: depends on what you are looking for, obviously it won't look as cool as HD or technically even digital. But if you end up using a converter box on the S2 (as I am) the picture quality is quite good and crisp at least for me, no "haziness" like there was with analog OTA. So as long as the signal is good, I personally like the quality my S2 gives to for my tv from a converter box.

3)Brands to buy? Don't know, each person has their opinions, any major brand probably won't steer you wrong. You do get what you pay for, so higher priced units (within reason anyway) give you better quality product and picture. Google "best tv" or something. look at a lot of lists and articles and come up with your own conclusion. When I looked around my Sharp tv was in the top ten good ones to buy. They also have top 10 not to buy if you look for it.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

omnibus said:


> Every TV I've ever owned has had separate controls for brightness and for contrast. Contrast is a measure of black level, generally the blacker the better or higher contrast. Brightness is dependent on room illumination, many sets have photocells to automatically adjust brightness.


All TVs have contrast and brightness controls (at least I've never run across a single set in the past 50+ years that didn't have them). It's generally best to avoid the use of any sort of automatic brightness controls because they tend to take the TV out of proper calibration. The contrast control sets the black level and the brightness control sets the white level, both of which should be adjusted using a proper calibration utility like the Digital Video Essentials or Avia Home Theater DVDs.

Proper viewing should be done in a darkened room, much like a movie theater. Of course, this is not always possible or even practical for most situations. Still, if you like watching your HDTV during daylight hours, you'll get the most out of it by installing room darkening curtains instead of having bright light saturate the room. Highly reflective screens used on many of todays HDTVs tend to make daylight viewing near impossible due to excessive glare.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

When shopping for a new TV I would recommend shopping model to model and not worry if the TV is DLP/Rear projection, LCD, or Plasma.

Determine: 

Price Point
Size Limitations (has to fit in my cabinet problem or must be at least X inches)
Viewing distance and other room characteristics.
What type of TV you will be watching the most HD - SD, Sports, Action Movies, etc. 
Read as many reviews as possible (consumer reports, CNet, HDGuru & others). Then buy the brand/model that fits your circumstances the best.

Once you do the above you will find that there is no over all correct answer to the question of which is best DLP/rear projection, LCD or Plasma. Each has it's place and each has excellent to poor models available from various vendors.

When I went through the process myself last year I purchased a Panasonic Plasma and could not be happier.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> What would be the best to go for, they all seem nice but I've noticed a benefit of DLP's is that I could get something as big as oh lets say a 65" DLP for about the cost of a 52" LCD.


I'll chime in as I own all three of these in my home. I can tell you that without a doubt Plasma is the best picture quality period. LCD is much more versatile as it is available in many sizes, is lighter if you need to move it around or mount it yourself and it doesn't have as much glare off of the screen for bright rooms. DLP is great size for the buck, but has limitations of all projections systems.

LCD with LED lighting with local dimming comes closest to plasma, but is expensive as of now. Plasma is still king in pic quality.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> ...
> Edit: Back to the whole reason behind the post... I'm still unsure about the whole LCD, Plasma, DLP thing. DLP sounds like it might be the winner from what I've been reading on TI's website and other sources.
> ...
> 
> Edit 2: Here's a 55" Vizio I found that "seems" nice. Has 5 HDMI inputs among other things and its around my price range ($2k or lower), the only thing I didnt see which I'm gonna go back and look for is the sound.


One thing to be aware of- from what I have read here- unless things have changed- vizio seems to be a throw away brand. They have no service network and no method of factory authorized repair out of warranty. They will swap during warrenty but seems after that you are out of luck. So if something significant goes in the thing then even a local repair shop may not be able to get parts.

Also TIs website would for sure tell you that DLP is the way to go- its their technology. Not saying that it isnt the best choice but rely on the neutral sites to get the information.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> Even my wife feels the same way and she could hardly care less about the subject. So it's not just a gadget freak.


Mine too (though we both agree that Sony made a mistake with the "elephant ear" non-removable speakers that make the model we have look even bigger.)

I keep thinking about what I would buy if I HAD to replace our current TV now. Nothing less than a 60" screen would do for our environment, and I'm picky about picture quality. I love the look of plasma but not the power consumption and phosphor wear. However, LCD is getting better and, who knows, OLED or something similar may finally break through.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> One thing to be aware of- from what I have read here- unless things have changed- vizio seems to be a throw away brand...


I also know someone who bought a Vizio and, when he discovered it failed to come with a power cord, he had lots of trouble getting one from the company. I'd avoid them from what I've heard about their terrible customer service.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I also know someone who bought a Vizio and, when he discovered it failed to come with a power cord, he had lots of trouble getting one from the company. I'd avoid them from what I've heard about their terrible customer service.


I had a good experience working with Vizio when I had trouble with an LCD GV42L. The something to do with the power switch apparently was an issue with that model, because the replacement they sent exhibited the exact same behavior. Admittedly, they initially sent a plasma model to replace it that I refused to receive and had sent back. The first LCD replacement I kept for about a week (or more?) to see if a break-in period was needed. When the 3rd replacement showed up, it was a VU42L6F 1080p model that is still in use. Nothing came out of my pocket to get the tv replaced, so I'm happy about that! The support office I called was in California.

Also, the power cable my tv(s) use look like standard PC type cables. My your friend ran into problems because it was an easily replaceable part?


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> As someone said in this post I havent heard of anyone complaing about bigger TV's but there is such a thing as to big be it the living room or bedroom tv so I'm thinking the ideal size for me at 10' to 14' (padded original figure for safety) would be around 55" even though thats only another 3" ontop of the current 52" set that I got my eye on.
> 
> Edit: Back to the whole reason behind the post... I'm still unsure about the whole LCD, Plasma, DLP thing. DLP sounds like it might be the winner from what I've been reading on TI's website and other sources.


i'm about 13' viewing distance from my dlp samsung 61" HL61A750 and it's perfect. when i first got it, it was replacing a 32" sony and i was overwhelmed to the point of almost regretting it. films were great, but for watching the news etc i hated it. well, after a while i started really liking it, and now i wouldn't want to go smaller. adjustment, but a happy one.

i live on both coasts so have 2 dlp sony 61" tvs. one of them was stolen in a burglary and i replaced it last week with the same, actually getting it 4 months in advance of when i'll be going to the home where it was stolen because it was discontinued - that's how much i love it. for me, the picture has more of a film quality, more dimensional - but that could be my imagination!

btw - mine don't have bulbs so that's not an issue.

i think you'll always enjoy a larger size unless you're 6' from the screen!


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

Samsung LED DLP - best bang for your buck. Check them on AVSForum and the reviews on Amazon.com. You better get them now (if you can find it), as they aren't made anymore by Samsung. 

I have an older Samsung 6187s, and it is a decision I don't regret for a second.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

While we're discussing- can we go back to the 120hz deal. I&#8217;ve been wondering why it looks &#8216;better&#8217;.
If the human eye basically is happy with 24 frames a second (film) or 30 frames a second (created by 60 interlaced fields on a CRT) then is there a discernable difference to the human eye between 60 and 120 hz? And isn&#8217;t the tv basically just showing each frame twice- or does it have a scaler that is interpolating the odd frames? 
Are the extra frames something that only some can see? (I know for instance that some people are more susceptible to computer monitor "flicker" - frequently at work people will complain about it and I'll show them how to up their refresh rate- they are happy when i show them- but to be honest myself I dont see the flicker in the first place) 
Or is it more that it forces the tv to react differently so that the frames we do can perceive look better?
What&#8217;s going on?


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> What would be the best to go for, they all seem nice but I've noticed a benefit of DLP's is that I could get something as big as oh lets say a 65" DLP for about the cost of a 52" LCD.


If you want the best picture bar none and can afford it, you should get a Pioneer Kuro Elite (Plasma) while you still can. There is a reason why they are used as the reference set by most HDTV reviewers. They also have one of the best anti-reflective coatings of ANY set. Do not listen to peoples concerns about burn in, it is not a worry for today's plasma's.

If you don't want to take my word for it, search out reviews of either the 50" model, the Pioneer PRO-111FD or the 60" model the Pioneer PRO-151FD online and hear what the experts have to say.

I recently bought a PRO-151FD and it looks absolutely stunning. Glare was a concern for us due to a pretty bright living room but this set is MUCH better than I ever expected and it has VERY little glare even in the middle of the day. Of course with a darkened room, it ROCKS.

Chris
[email protected]


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

crowtoo said:


> If you want the best picture bar none and can afford it, you should get a Pioneer Kuro Elite (Plasma) while you still can. There is a reason why they are used as the reference set by most HDTV reviewers. They also have one of the best anti-reflective coatings of ANY set. Do not listen to peoples concerns about burn in, it is not a worry for today's plasma's.
> 
> If you don't want to take my word for it, search out reviews of either the 50" model, the Pioneer PRO-111FD or the 60" model the Pioneer PRO-151FD online and hear what the experts have to say.
> 
> ...


These are the best TVs made today. There is little doubt about it. They do have the one limitation of glare as you pointed out, but they are clearly the best of the best right now.

That being said, they are not going to be made after this year so if someone wants one, they had better jump on it.


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

larrs said:


> These are the best TVs made today. There is little doubt about it. They do have the one limitation of glare as you pointed out, but they are clearly the best of the best right now.
> 
> That being said, they are not going to be made after this year so if someone wants one, they had better jump on it.


In my experience glare is not an issue with these sets at all. I was worried about it prior to our purchase but I can't imagine a screen coating that could be any better. The better LCD's I looked at had serious glare issues and that was in a store setting. I think they'd be almost unwatchable in any room with windows.

Chris
[email protected]ink.net


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

crowtoo said:


> ....The better LCD's I looked at had serious glare issues and that was in a store setting. I think they'd be almost unwatchable in any room with windows...


One of the issues when we recently purchased a low-priced Toshiba 32-inch 720p LCD was glare. Since it faces two bedroom windows it was a major factor in our purchase, so, when I went to the store I looked (at an angle) at all the 32-inch LCDs lined up side by side to see how much glare there was. The Toshiba had a matte-type screen finish which minimized the glare quite well...much better than the rest.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

stevel said:


> It depends on what you want. Rear projection gives you the most screen size for the buck, but it is fading fast as consumers overwhelmingly prefer LCD and, to a lesser extent, plasma. Most major manufacturers have dropped RPTV entirely or have relegated it to the low end of their lines.
> 
> It is true that if you want a big screen, over 52", your choices in LCD are few and expensive. Plasma sets are still available in those sizes, but there are fewer choices than before and they're still pricey.
> 
> ...


great post :up:

I'm spoiled with my Pioneer PDP-5010FD. 1080p 50"

King of all plasmas (and TV's, IMO). Unfortunately, they're done. Panasonic is VERY good though. After that, probably Samsung - they're getting really good with their LED tech. Super thin too. Still haven't approached the inky blacks of plasma, but they're getting there. Sony, IMO, is not very good at blacks).


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

stevel said:


> I love the look of plasma but not the power consumption and phosphor wear.


What do you mean by phsophor wear ?

Also, many great posts here... definately alot to think about but regardless of what I do get my limit is about $2k MAYBE $2.1 or even $2.2 if the extra cash made the TV have more "bang" for the buck but as of right now I wouldnt wana spend more then two grand if I dont have to which is why my first liking was the Sony Bravia 52".

Now since it will be a bedroom TV with a viewing distance of no less than 10' but no more than 14' it would seem that regardless of model a 52" would be the bare minimum but seems liek I should probably be shopping for a 55".


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> What would be the best to go for, they all seem nice but I've noticed a benefit of DLP's is that I could get something as big as oh lets say a 65" DLP for about the cost of a 52" LCD.


I went with the 65" DLP, the picture is fantastic and unlike Plasma or LCD the Close Caption, which is a must for me, will NOT burn in. That what happen to my last LCD set and I paid more for that then I did for the DLP.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

I really-really hate any kind of glare on a screen. I even dislike it when there's a glossy finish on the frame. One thing nice about LCD's is they usually have a totally glare free surface. I have a 39" Toshiba LCD I view at about 6 feet in my den. I have zero complaints with it and the size feels right to me. Although, I could probably appreciate a bigger screen even at that relatively close viewing distance. Also, my wife doesn't work so she runs the TV pretty much constantly. She often pauses it then wanders off to do chores. I'll come home to see the TV paused with my wife in the other room. I tell her not to do that, shut it off if you're not watching it, but she's not going to listen to me. Anyway, I've had the TV for almost three years now and have not had any issue with burn-in, despite my wife's best efforts.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

the bad thing about plasma is of course that it's ~4x the energy hog, and carbon emissions are ~4x as well.

last i heard the EU is actually considering banning them, but not sure how long ago that was...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

CraigHB said:


> I really-really hate any kind of glare on a screen. I even dislike it when there's a glossy finish on the frame. One thing nice about LCD's is they usually have a totally glare free surface. ....


it really depends on the make and model.

As I posted above samsung has at least 3 different gloss (and therefore glare) levels on their LCD's. You can get any basic set pretty much with any gloss version. Although for some reason the really high end everything in it models all seem to come super high gloss- I think becasue the higher gloss allows greater contrast ratio for some reason.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> What do you mean by phsophor wear ?
> ...


no expert but i beleive over time the stuff phosphor (or whatever it is that makes the plasma which is what makes each pixel/sub pixel glow) wears out and the screen dims.

Again not an expert but i tend to think anyone spending a couple grand on a tv is likely to be the kind of person that doesn't keep a tv for 15 years anymore. So for many they would be moving to a new tv before it became really annoying.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

moonscape said:


> the bad thing about plasma is of course that it's ~4x the energy hog, and carbon emissions are ~4x as well.
> 
> last i heard the EU is actually considering banning them, but not sure how long ago that was...


FUD.

My Plasma's power consumption is no where near 4x the power consumption of a typical LCD in the same size. Modern Plasmas do consume more than modern LCDs, but less than older LCDs do. The newest LED powered sets do have truly low power consumption, but they are the only ones. If power consumption is that big an issue, you must run out and get an LED set this very instant, nothing else is going to compare with one of those.

By the way, the three tube rear projection TV that I replaced ate twice the power my new Plasma does.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> no expert but i beleive over time the stuff phosphor (or whatever it is that makes the plasma which is what makes each pixel/sub pixel glow) wears out and the screen dims.
> 
> Again not an expert but i tend to think anyone spending a couple grand on a tv is likely to be the kind of person that doesn't keep a tv for 15 years anymore. So for many they would be moving to a new tv before it became really annoying.


Plasma's are rated to be "worn out" when the phosphors fade to half their original brightness. That is typically 10 years of normal use nowadays. Old tube type TVs also wore out in a similar fashion, loosing brightness over time. The TV I replaced, rear projection with three tubes, had lost a lot of brightness over the 12 years I had it.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

I don't claim to be an expert on PQ between these 3 technologies, but I'm very happy with my LCDs. You can't beat them in sunlit room and they have no glare. Nothing worse than chandelier image in a middle of the screen.
If plasma and DLP were better, why they are disappearing from the stores and are being discontinued?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

samo said:


> I don't claim to be an expert on PQ between these 3 technologies, but I'm very happy with my LCDs. You can't beat them in sunlit room and they have no glare. Nothing worse than chandelier image in a middle of the screen.
> If plasma and DLP were better, why they are disappearing from the stores and are being discontinued?


For a brightly lit room, you are absolutely right. since most people watch television that way, most people would prefer the LCD. That probably explains the disappearance too. There aren't enough people wanting Plasmas to make it worth manufacturer's while to compete there. Plasma's shine in a theater like atmosphere where the room is built around the viewing experience. LCD's shine where they are added to a room with multiple uses, and TV viewing isn't the only driver. It depends what you want. The sad thing is that the people wanting the purer, movie theater experience are going to loose the option to the mass market driven answer. Obviously there is nothing new about that.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Speaking of LED's, Samsung seems to have some nice ones and I'm really liking what I've read about them. Only thing though is that theyre more expensive and my budget is about $2k no more than $2.2 and I'd need atleast a 52".

Edit: I'm starting to think that because of my budget and things looked for in a TV that I may just have to go after those nicely priced DLP's,


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Speaking of LED's, Samsung seems to have some nice ones and I'm really liking what I've read about them. Only thing though is that theyre more expensive and my budget is about $2k no more than $2.2 and I'd need atleast a 52".
> 
> Edit: I'm starting to think that because of my budget and things looked for in a TV that I may just have to go after those nicely priced DLP's,


A Pioneer PDP-5020FD (50") would be right in your price range. They are getting harder to find but they are still available at many online retailers including Amazon.com ($2,049.98), which is an authorized Pioneer online retailer. While this is not a Kuro set it is still a VERY good set that is better than more than 75% of the TV's out there. Check out the reviews.

Chris
[email protected]


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

crowtoo said:


> A Pioneer PDP-5020FD (50") would be right in your price range. They are getting harder to find but they are still available at many online retailers including Amazon.com ($2,049.98), which is an authorized Pioneer online retailer. While this is not a Kuro set it is still a VERY good set that is better than more than 75% of the TV's out there. Check out the reviews.
> 
> Chris
> [email protected]


Thx, I'll def check out the reviews but it seems like with my setup / arrangement I need a minimum of a 52" with a 55" being preferred.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

crowtoo said:


> A Pioneer PDP-5020FD (50") would be right in your price range. They are getting harder to find but they are still available at many online retailers including Amazon.com ($2,049.98), which is an authorized Pioneer online retailer. While this is not a Kuro set it is still a VERY good set that is better than more than 75% of the TV's out there. Check out the reviews.


Note you can get a 50" Kuro monitor for the same price. I mentioned it in my earlier post.

The 50" KRP-500M ($1800-$2000) is essentially a Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD without the built-in speakers, ATSC tuner, and [hidden] ISFcc calibration menu for $1000+ less.

Similarly, the 60" KRP-600M ($2800-$3100) is like a a Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD without the built-in speakers, ATSC tuner, and [hidden] ISFcc calibration menu for $1500+ less.

If you don't need the built-in speakers or ATSC tuner, these are the best displays available at their respective price points. Note the stand and mount are sold separately.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Thx, I'll def check out the reviews but it seems like with my setup / arrangement I need a minimum of a 52" with a 55" being preferred.


_Assuming you need built-in speakers and a bundled stand..._

Check out the new 54" Panasonic TC-P54G10. The 50" version was released last month, and the 54" version was released about a week ago. Amazon.com should have it in stock for under $1800 within a few weeks.

A 58" version is coming this summer for a few hundred more.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> _Assuming you need built-in speakers and a bundled stand..._
> 
> Check out the new 54" Panasonic TC-P54G10. The 50" version was released last month, and the 54" version was released about a week ago. Amazon.com should have it in stock for under $1800 within a few weeks.
> 
> A 58" version is coming this summer for a few hundred more.


Speakers would be needed less I bought a sound system but the stand not so much since it would be a wall mount setup. But thx for that, I'll def check it out ;-)


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> FUD.
> 
> My Plasma's power consumption is no where near 4x the power consumption of a typical LCD in the same size. Modern Plasmas do consume more than modern LCDs, but less than older LCDs do.


yeah, it's not nearly what i thought it was - not even close. stand corrected. wonder why the EU wants to ban them?

maybe because they're the EU ...


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

I think I've made up my mind and I rather like it... this is what I will be getting if I dont change my mind again lol.

Toshiba 55ZV650U lil bit over my price range but not by much so I can live with it price wise.


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> I think I've made up my mind and I rather like it... this is what I will be getting if I dont change my mind again lol.
> 
> Toshiba 55ZV650U lil bit over my price range but not by much so I can live with it price wise.


Make sure you go see this set in person prior to buying it or at least purchase it somewhere that has a liberal return policy. This set has a VERY glossy screen. It is also so new there are no reviews by any HDTV or home theater mags yet.

Good luck with it, but I would have gone Pioneer plasma. 

Chris
[email protected]


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

crowtoo said:


> Make sure you go see this set in person prior to buying it or at least purchase it somewhere that has a liberal return policy. This set has a VERY glossy screen. It is also so new there are no reviews by any HDTV or home theater mags yet.
> 
> Good luck with it, but I would have gone Pioneer plasma.
> 
> ...


The room it's going in has thick curtains in it so I only get half of the light I would normally get from to windows. No real glares on my current TV but you can see the windos reflection in it when it's off but that goes with any turned off TV.

As for seeing it in person, that may be a bit tricky because I would end up getting if off eBay.

It's seems eBay is the best place for me to get a TV regardless of size because of the wide range of prices. I may still change my mind on what I wana get but as of now I like what I "picked".


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> The room it's going in has thick curtains in it so I only get half of the light I would normally get from to windows. No real glares on my current TV but you can see the windos reflection in it when it's off but that goes with any turned off TV.
> 
> As for seeing it in person, that may be a bit tricky because I would end up getting if off eBay.
> 
> It's seems eBay is the best place for me to get a TV regardless of size because of the wide range of prices. I may still change my mind on what I wana get but as of now I like what I "picked".


You could always go to a local retailer like Big Screen Store or something similar just to check it out, and make your purchase online. I didn't search ebay but I did notice that Crutchfield has it for $2199.99 with free shipping. Crutchfield's advisers are very helpful as well.

Chris
[email protected]


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## lilypham (May 19, 2009)

LCD's last longer.


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

lilypham said:


> LCD's last longer.


Not according to this JD Power and Associates report:



> The report finds that the high proportion of recommendations of LCD
> sets is primarily due to retail salespersons' lack of knowledge regarding
> recent improvements in plasma technology. For example, more than one-third
> (38%) of salespersons told their customers that LCD sets last longer. Also,
> ...


Full report here: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/07-21-2008/0004852624&EDATE=

There are many myths about plasma TV's that still get perpetuated in the market. Go to the AVS forums and do some reading to find out the truth about today's HDTV's. I spent MANY hours researching HDTV's prior to making our purchase and I learned quite a bit about both plasma and LCD.

Chris
[email protected]


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

crowtoo said:


> Not according to this JD Power and Associates report:
> 
> Full report here: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/07-21-2008/0004852624&EDATE=
> 
> ...


so true. Lack of knowledge is the biggest reason plasma is disappearing. Also, from a salesman's perspective, it is easier to agree and make a sale than it is to disagree, anger or annoy, and not make a sale while being right.


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

EVizzle said:


> so true. Lack of knowledge is the biggest reason plasma is disappearing. Also, from a salesman's perspective, it is easier to agree and make a sale than it is to disagree, anger or annoy, and not make a sale while being right.


Also, most of the time there is more profit to be made from the sale of a LCD TV versus a plasma one. You don't think that has anything to do with salesmen steering people towards LCD's do you. 

Chris
[email protected]


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

moonscape said:


> wonder why the EU wants to ban them?
> 
> maybe because they're the EU ...


Probably. Government organizations can do some pretty dumb things. Last I read, the rules were simply going to be power consumption limits and the power hogs would be banned no matter what their underlying technology. Even that smacks of picking winners.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I strongly recommend making such purchase either directly from a local store or through an online retailer that provides support, such as Crutchfield. Buying off eBay may strand you with an expensive doorstop if something goes wrong initially. I also have problems with looking at local stores and then buying online.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

stevel said:


> ...I also have problems with looking at local stores and then buying online.


Why?


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

I don't like to buy online for big ticket items with return potential. You save some money, but if you have to return it for any reason, you eat return shipping costs which can be pretty big on something like a HD TV. Plus there's the downtime of not having a working product. If you buy from a local retailer with a good return policy and there's a problem, you can replace the unit in the time it takes to drive there and back and the cost is only a gallon or two of gas. The risk of buying things like televisions online is just not worth the savings IMO.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Why?


Because it's unfair to the local stores.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

stevel said:


> I strongly recommend making such purchase either directly from a local store or through an online retailer that provides support, such as Crutchfield. Buying off eBay may strand you with an expensive doorstop if something goes wrong initially. I also have problems with looking at local stores and then buying online.


I second Steve's opinion. Do you know that when you buy from the e-bay you are only protected from fraud for up to $200? If you use PayPal, then it is $1000. Of course you can contest your charges with you credit card, but sometimes it is a royal pain.
As for the warranty, most e-bay sellers are not authorized dealers. That means that manufacturer can deny you warranty claims (most brand names have a policy that voids warranty if your TV was not purchased from the authorized dealer).
You can save money by buying online, but you need to be sure whom you buy from. I recently bought 65 inch Sharp Aquos from Costco on sale for $3000 and free shipping. Costco gives 2 year warranty and I know that they are good for it. There are other reputable online retailers, but you need to do your homework before you spend 2G or so.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

stevel said:


> I also have problems with looking at local stores and then buying online.


I'm glad there are apparently many people like this. Even for books, I feel guilty "using" a bookstore (though I haven't hung out in a bookstore except to kill time for a LONG time(*)), then buying online. Though admittedly, about the only time I do that is if I see a hardcover book I like and am purposefully waiting for the paperback.

(*) I sure miss Crown Books. They were like the brick & mortar Amazon -- way cheaper than other places for what they stocked. (Someone bought the Crown name but it's not related at all, AFAIK.)


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

I found a new favorite, it's a plasma, now it's just a matter or finding it within my price range heh.

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/...ions&subtype=plasmatv&model_cd=PN58B650S1FXZA


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## crowtoo (Dec 7, 2005)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> I found a new favorite, it's a plasma, now it's just a matter or finding it within my price range heh.
> 
> http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/...ions&subtype=plasmatv&model_cd=PN58B650S1FXZA


Try here:

http://www.clevelandplasma.com/

They are a forum sponsor on AVS and have very good reputation. I haven't personally bought from them before but others on AVS forums have with good results. I doubt you'll find that set much cheaper elsewhere.

Chris
[email protected]


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

crowtoo said:


> Try here:
> 
> http://www.clevelandplasma.com/
> 
> ...


Thx, I'll check it out... maybe I'll find a new fav there LOL.

But ya I def like the Samsung Plasma I last linked more then the previous Toshiba I linked.


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes, definitely no reason to rush, until you know you have selected the one you want to have, no questions remaining.  Have fun!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Widescreen Review just reviewed a new Panasonic Premiere plasma panel which it says is, in many ways, even better than the Pioneer Kuro. Some drawbacks - it costs $10,000 and draws 700W!


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Well, with any luck the new 58" Samsung plasma will be here this Friday. I'll post some "transformation" pics when I figure out what wall it's going on.

Also got a nice 1000W Samsung home theater system for it.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Here's the first pic... The TV wont be here til tomorrow but as you can see I'm working on some of the small stuff right now.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Who says you cant single handedly level / install a wall mount for a 58" Plasma lol.

Also, before I mount the TV itself I'm gonna suspend about 100lbs of weight from it for a few days to make sure it holds good which it should since I centered the anchors / screws in the studs.

As you can also see I got a bit of cleanup on the wall to take care of heh


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## eddielives (Nov 29, 2007)

lilypham said:


> LCD's last longer.


The new Panny plasmas have a panel life of 100K hours. Show me an LCD with that kind of longevity(sp?).

I won't even get into the better blacks and how much better plasma handles motion. You're just wrong.


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## eddielives (Nov 29, 2007)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Well, with any luck the new 58" Samsung plasma will be here this Friday. I'll post some "transformation" pics when I figure out what wall it's going on.
> 
> Also got a nice 1000W Samsung home theater system for it.


I've got the new PN58B860 in my store, and I think it's B-E-A-utiful. Inky blacks, great color accuracy, and handles motion very well. Also does a very good job on SD material. It's my personal favorite right now out of the 70 sets we display.

To the LCD lovers out there, say what you will, but all room conditions aside, for overall picture quality plasma wins. Before you start bashing, keep reading.

Every day, ALL day, while everyones at work, I'm looking at plasma, LCD, DLP, and LED. Comparing, tweaking, and trying to get the most out of both.

I'm not "anti-LCD" by any means. The reality is that for some rooms it's simply a better choice.

And as for LED... I'm not sold on it yet. I've been playing with the new Sammy 55" 8000 series, and I have to say I'm not that impressed. Sure, it looks good, but I've noticed that some of the light is bleeding through from the sides when watching 4:3 material (in the black bars), or in dark scenes. Not good. I'll have to play more before making my final decision tho.

Just my $.02


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## eddielives (Nov 29, 2007)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Who says you cant single handedly level / install a wall mount for a 58" Plasma lol.
> 
> Also, before I mount the TV itself I'm gonna suspend about 100lbs of weight from it for a few days to make sure it holds good which it should since I centered the anchors / screws in the studs.
> 
> As you can also see I got a bit of cleanup on the wall to take care of heh


Careful when mounting the display. I was impatient when re-mounting my 50" and tried it myself. End result: A torn right bicep tendon! Yea.... OUCH!!!!

At least the panel is still ok. And that's the important thing.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Ouch, well everything is mounted and attached... just a mater of me finding help to lift this 80 some pound beast (without stand) up to the bracket.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

eddielives said:


> I've got the new PN58B860 in my store, and I think it's B-E-A-utiful.


What if any are the difference between that and the PN58B650 that I got, I'd imagine it has much of the ame things that the PN58B860 has.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Well, I just got it mounted on the wall... now all I need to do is finish hooking up all the goodies to it like my S3 n stuff heh


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## newskilz (Jul 11, 2008)

eddielives said:


> The new Panny plasmas have a panel life of 100K hours. Show me an LCD with that kind of longevity(sp?).
> 
> I won't even get into the better blacks and how much better plasma handles motion. You're just wrong.


Definitely each to their own as well as viewing environment, etc.

However, just because the plasma claims a lifespan of 100K doesn't mean a lot. Come on, even the standard lifespan of 60K is something like 15 years or so normal viewing habits and around 6.8 years 24 hours a day. At any rate, the switch end of that is once the plasma wears out, that's it. While the LCD panel, if I understand correctly, is rated for the back-light lifespan, which now days is usually replaceable. Now granted after 10-15 years, who is going to want to keep their 10-15 year old TV anyway rather than buy whatever the best and coolest is then?

Motion? I have no problems at all with my LCD w/120Hz and 4 ms response time. Maybe I just don't notice, maybe it's a perception thing.

Plasma's overall do better blacks, but that gap is closing well too. I at least can't see much difference in my LCD black level vs my friends plasma; for me it's like LCD's are 2 shades from plasma black- I can watch Pitch Black or other dark movies and still see plenty of detail-more dark detail with plasma? I wouldn't know, I don't own both. I will agree that the plasma colors or more vivid, I will give it that.

I also looked at the power consumption (for some reason) and LCD's average about 2/3 the power usage of plasmas.

Also (at least a year ago anyway) the LCD TV's repair bill average was cheaper than plasma or projection tv.

(A year ago) I personally decided on an LCD from Sharp, and one of their newest ones that doesn't have the back light problem; and I chose it so I didn't have to worry about burn in near as much as I would with plasma what with all of the tv stations running their logo almost constantly, or if you pause the tivo for a while, tivo menus... Granted plasma's have gotten better there, but still not as good as LCD's that I know of.

My 2 cents.


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## boxster99t (Oct 25, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> what's the screen finish like on those?
> 
> something that wont pick up glare from external lighting is much more pleasurable in a room with southern exposure and lots of windows.


I gotta tell you, I just (as in Sunday) got the Panasonic TC-P54G10 for my master bedroom. And it's viewing environment is a darkened bedroom, as I only view at night. Good thing too, because the reflection from my overhead light (4 25 watt bulbs) reflects in the mirror of my headboard, and that reflects on the screen of the plasma. No way could I use this plasma in a room with a lot of sunlight. That is why I have a Sony Bravia 52" KLD XBR 5 in my family room (there's a wall of windows behind it, and on the opposite wall is the front door which has glass windows and a glass side light). No glare on the Bravia, except on the piano black frame around the LCD panel.

Note the recommendation for the Panny TC-P54G10 would be good in a room without direct sunlight hitting it. That's an important qualifier. Based on what I've seen with mine, my guess is you'd be returning the set, the first time you tried to watch a ballgame in the middle of the day, if your viewing room has sunlight adjacent to the screen.

Edit: misread the recommendation from above--it clear said in rooms without sunlight, so I fixed my preceding comment.

Thus far (I've watched 2 blu rays) I do like the TC-P54G10 for the bedroom. Go as big as you can afford--I wish my Bravia were bigger but I have size limitations in the family room (52" was a big as I could fit and still get all my home theater equipment and speakers along the one wall where it had to go). That's why I went 54" for the master bedroom. I am about 10'-12' back from the screen.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

boxster99t said:


> Thus far (I've watched 2 blu rays) I do like the TC-P54G10 for the bedroom. Go as big as you can afford--I wish my Bravia were bigger but I have size limitations in the family room (52" was a big as I could fit and still get all my home theater equipment and speakers along the one wall where it had to go). That's why I went 54" for the master bedroom. I am about 10'-12' back from the screen.


Congrats, the Panasonic G10 series is very nice.

The 54" version is too new to have recommended settings, although you might start with the settings for a smaller model:

Contrast: +65
Brightness: +50
Color: +38
Tint: 0
Sharpness: +25
Color Temp: Warm 1 or Warm2 (see what you like better)
Everything else pretty much off, Video NR: Weak, Black Level: Light

You might bookmark the AVS'  Panasonic TC-P42G10, TC-P46G10, TC-P50G10, and TC-P54G10 Owner's Discussion Thread. Skip to the latest posts.


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

Here's what I'm using for breakin settings on the 58" Samsung Plasma that I got. I just have everything set at 45 of a possible 100. Figured I'll keep em like that for about the next 30 days which depending on viewing hrs will give me anywhere from a 200 to a 300hr break in period.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Well, I just got it mounted on the wall... now all I need to do is finish hooking up all the goodies to it like my S3 n stuff heh


uh, tell me you're removing the stand. that looks awful.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

b_scott said:


> uh, tell me you're removing the stand. that looks awful.


You can't see the invisible TV furniture beneath it?


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## TiVo_Fanatic (May 29, 2006)

No, I wana leave it there to hold sodas when I get up to go pee... of course i removed it.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

you never know. seems odd to mount it and THEN remove it. with all those wires everywhere, i wasn't sure you were keen on asthetics.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

b_scott said:


> you never know. seems odd to mount it and THEN remove it. with all those wires everywhere, i wasn't sure you were keen on asthetics.


I did some serious cringing there too, lol.

Please take off the stickers also  and then enjoy!


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