# Final Predictions for 3/2



## Luckyp79 (Jan 18, 2009)

I was just kind of curious.

You all seem to know more about this stuff then I do so I am asking you.

What are your final predictions for 3/2?

Please just post your predictions and please do not reply to peoples predictions. I am trying to create a list of predictions.

Thanks


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Luckyp79 said:


> I was just kind of curious.
> 
> You all seem to know more about this stuff then I do so I am asking you.
> 
> ...


It's revealed that the others don't have any more clue what's going on on the island than anyone else. Somebody kisses someone else. We'll see at least one spooky reference to something that hasn't been brought up since season one. And only enough answers will be given to make us ask even more questions.

Oops...wrong thread.

New hardware is pretty much a lock, I think; new software's a strong contender too. For a more far out guess, I think we'll see some (one or maybe more) hardware from Tivo that isn't a dvr. Maybe the access point/bridge device we glimpsed late last year. I'd rather see a software solution for qwerty input(usb hid support and/or an expansion of the telnet interface) than a dedicated hardware device.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

10% of the people here will consider it a big deal.
55% of the people here will be disappointed but consider it decent upgrade from the current product.
25% of the people here will be disappointed and stick with their current TiVo product.
10% will report that Tivo is doomed.

Seriously, here's my guess

A new, responsive HD interface that integrates TiVo search.
A new SOC will provide wider format support and DNLA streaming.
Web video search and playback will be much more integrated and much more capable. For example, I can create a wishlist for all video content that matches "My Team" from nfl.com.
New Application API that allows essentially any web site to become it's own video network.
Promised apps that will allow streaming to portable devices.
Full programming and DLNA playback through a web interface.
No additional tuners in the box (groan from the audience)


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

New hardware (nothing groundbreaking in it, updated Tivo HD)
New, faster HD UI
Integrated search
Sling-ish capability
Maybe something on the DirectTV dvr (it could steal it's thunder, it could be something they have to announce b/c they don't have that much to show)
An iPhone app (yeah, that's how low my expectations are at this point)

I'm hoping for some awesome idea no one has broached in theory land that would justify the event's advertising tagline but am not holding my breath. All in all everyone is probably going to be disappointed and Tivo probably went a little too overboard with the 'Inventing the DVR'.. verbage.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

nrc said:


> A new, responsive HD interface that integrates TiVo search.
> A new SOC will provide wider format support and DNLA streaming.
> Web video search and playback will be much more integrated and much more capable. For example, I can create a wishlist for all video content that matches "My Team" from nfl.com.
> New Application API that allows essentially any web site to become it's own video network.
> ...


Ambitious predictions. I've had TiVos for the last 10 years and never once has a single upgrade ever added that much unique functionality.

I honestly don't expect much. Probably a new box, possibly running a new UI, but that's about it. There could be some new partnership or something, but I doubt that if there is it will effect us end users much.

Dan


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

*TiVo Premiere** - 320gb for $299
*TiVo Premiere XL** - 1TB for $499
Both will have newer hardware which improves transfer speed and opens up the potential for HD Streaming to get around the copy once flag. 
*Qwerty Remote* available separately for $49.99
*New HD UI* This will of course leave some people who love the TiVo UI hating it and others loving it. 
*iPhone App* that lets you stream recorded content and live tv. 
*New Wireless N Adapter* which also has a Moca bridge on it so it can work as either

*Both with 90 days warranty for parts and labor which you can supplement with the TiVo extended warranty when you activate the new TiVo at TiVo.com

Also to steal from NRC
10% of the people here will consider it a big deal.
40% of the people here will be disappointed but consider it decent upgrade from the current product.
20% of the people here will be disappointed and stick with their current TiVo product.
10% of the people will be on the fence and wait until someone opens the case to see what it can really do
15% will report that Tivo is doomed.
5% will switch to 7MC with cable card tuners when available


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> *New HD UI* This will of course leave some people who love the TiVo UI hating it and others loving it.


they will likely leave the SD menus as classic for those that want to keep using them and for SD sets


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

1) New pause based animated ads selling beer during kids shows.
2) Ads inside guide channel listing, such as, ch3, ch4, BUY ROLAIDS, ch5, ch6, while ads cover 1/2 the screen of the guide.
3) After recording ad insertion (dynamically changes ads on recordings)
4) New Tivo hardware that will be used for Directv, Best Buy, RCN, inside TV guts and Tivo. 
5) New flash based apps (like the current BK game, but far more annoying)

Personally, I wish Tivo would also announce they are taking the high road and not advertising beer when you pause Tivo at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon while enjoying the Olympics with your impressionable children. Thanks Tivo, you mother &#&$ers!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Beer or erectile dysfunction ads. You can get rid of one, but not both. Personally, I'd rather be forced to watch beer commercials than see more old people in erectile dysfunction commercials... if I was forced to pick just one, of course. 

Beer, erectile dysfunction, or infomercials... you can only pick just one to get rid of... that would be difficult. I think I'd just read more and unplug the TV.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The event will be hosted by the infomercial guy with the headset OR NO SALE!

But seriously...

- Tivo Premieres as the Best Buy leaks indicate. Updated but nothing special.
- New UI with design cues seen in Search beta.
- Search Beta the new official Search
- Best Buy VOD and marketing/branding is integrated as an app and in the UI.
- Tivo Desktop Plus (or replacement) becomes free and central to their content strategy (transfer and/or stream content to/from other devices).

Nothing on the RCN/DTV boxes, as those are technically RCN/DTV products. They'll be in charge of announcing those things.

Overall good but nothing groundbreaking. If you want more tuners, prepare the Moxi switching threats in advance.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

bschuler2007 said:


> 2) Ads inside guide channel listing, such as, ch3, ch4, BUY ROLAIDS, ch5, ch6, while ads cover 1/2 the screen of the guide.


DirecTV (non-TiVo) DVRs have that misfeature already.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bschuler2007 said:


> Personally, I wish Tivo would also announce they are taking the high road and not advertising beer when you pause Tivo at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon while enjoying the Olympics with your impressionable children. Thanks Tivo, you mother &#&$ers!


yeah, I am sure many hockey fans sitting sedately in their comfy chair with junior sitting on their knee were just aghast when they paused their TiVo to get some more milk and cookies for everyone.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

wmcbrine said:


> DirecTV (non-TiVo) DVRs have that misfeature already.


No they don't. They do insert some extra lines for on-demand channels between guide lines. These lines are same size as regular but are multicolor to grab your attention. These extra lines are not paid advertisement for the products, but are quite usefull to set up recording for on-demand channels if you wish. There is almost never more than 1 extra line on a guide screen except just before area of PPV channels - it show half a dozen or so on-demand PPV moves you can order, mostly ones that are available in 1080P.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

samo said:


> These extra lines are not paid advertisement for the products, but are quite usefull to set up recording for on-demand channels if you wish


All advertising is useful. TV viewers have always had difficulty understanding that it's really good for them.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

My prediction isn't all that much new for the TiVo itself (updated interface, wireless n, and faster processor). I'm expecting Best Buy to come out with a line of TiVo compatible media streamers, and to offer TiVo repair and upgrade services at their stores.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

janry said:


> I'm expecting Best Buy to come out with a line of TiVo compatible media streamers


It would be easier for TiVo to adopt DLNA, and thereby pick up all of them.


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## Boomh4u3r (Sep 30, 2009)

A bunch of good stuff


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

1) 3+ tuners
2) HD UI
3) No more HME, apps on Tivo w/ app/channel store/catalog.
4) VOD apps up the wazoo
5) Some sort of integration from the Seachange partnership (FIOS VOD...please?)


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

Final Prediction? Disappointment.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Beer or erectile dysfunction ads. You can get rid of one, but not both. Personally, I'd rather be forced to watch beer commercials than see *more old people* in erectile dysfunction commercials... if I was forced to pick just one, of course.
> 
> Beer, erectile dysfunction, or infomercials... you can only pick just one to get rid of... that would be difficult. I think I'd just read more and unplug the TV.


Hey, I resemble that remark!


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> It would be easier for TiVo to adopt DLNA, and thereby pick up all of them.


+ 1000


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

bschuler2007 said:


> 1) New pause based animated ads selling beer during kids shows.
> 2) Ads inside guide channel listing, such as, ch3, ch4, BUY ROLAIDS, ch5, ch6, while ads cover 1/2 the screen of the guide.
> 3) After recording ad insertion (dynamically changes ads on recordings)
> 4) New Tivo hardware that will be used for Directv, Best Buy, RCN, inside TV guts and Tivo.
> ...


You forgot...

6) New agreement with Netflix, Amazon, and Disney to append ads to streaming content based on viewing habits. 
7) Infomercials on demand alongside Netflix, Amazon, and others.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Seriously, I think an integrated sling type feature is in the works. Cable has been telling us that if TiVo would just stream instead of copy it wouldn't be a problem. I think TiVo is going to release a streaming product that allows you to stream anywhere, why limit it to a single home if streaming is legal? 

I just hope that series 2's aren't left out. They should have enough processing power to receive a streamed video signal.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

TiVo Premier HD Extender ($99) - MRV with no CableCard connected to your network.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> TiVo Premier HD Extender ($99) - MRV with no CableCard connected to your network.


Wouldn't this hurt them to some degree though.
It would basically allow users to have 1 TIVO box then any # of MRV they wanted. Versus having multiple tivo subscriptions, etc...


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

NatasNJ said:


> Wouldn't this hurt them to some degree though.
> It would basically allow users to have 1 TIVO box then any # of MRV they wanted. Versus having multiple tivo subscriptions, etc...


It would if you could live with two tuners, but other companies offer solutions as well.

I, for one, would pay $99 plus $2-3 per month for a box that did MRV or Streaming and Netflix/Blockbuster/Amazon/Vudu, etc.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Ambitious predictions. I've had TiVos for the last 10 years and never once has a single upgrade ever added that much unique functionality.
> 
> I honestly don't expect much. Probably a new box, possibly running a new UI, but that's about it. There could be some new partnership or something, but I doubt that if there is it will effect us end users much.
> 
> Dan


I'll vote for this as well. I think there will be a boatload of new partnerships (Vudu--fingers crossed--Napster, Pandora, etc.) and a new box, new UI and possibly new streaming capabilities rather than standard MRV...

My wishlist is more like:
3 tuners (keep up with Moxi)
Streaming-only boxes (like Moxi)
A bunch of new partners
1080p upscaling and VOD support
New HD UI
Built in Sling capabilities

We will see soon...


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## thespacepope72 (Jan 25, 2005)

JohnBrowning said:


> Final Prediction? Disappointment.


+1000


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> Wouldn't this hurt them to some degree though.
> It would basically allow users to have 1 TIVO box then any # of MRV they wanted. Versus having multiple tivo subscriptions, etc...


It depends. Most likely the # of Tivo owners willing to spend $99 for an extender is far greater than the # of people willing to spend $299 + TiVo sub for an additional TiVo. It may cut into DVR sales a bit, but as long as the profit margin on the extender is high enough, it can easily make up for it in volume.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

larrs said:


> It would if you could live with two tuners, but other companies offer solutions as well.
> 
> I, for one, would pay $99 plus $2-3 per month for a box that did MRV or Streaming and Netflix/Blockbuster/Amazon/Vudu, etc.


True, TiVo would keep the mind-share of TiVo customers if they created an extender without a tuner. They already have all the security controls to do MRV, and the hard drive can be a small 40 GB HD just for buffering.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Scyber said:


> 3) No more HME, apps on Tivo w/ app/channel store/catalog.


HME is still in the Premiere with 14.x -- I got one connecting to my Reversi game via apps.tv. Of course this doesn't rule out additional "app"-type services.


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## walkingdogs (Jan 18, 2010)

Not really predictions but I'd like to see a PIP view while in the guide and Tivo Central, the HD interface everyone has been speculating on. Sling type functionality would be awesome, open external eSata support. Other than that my short 2 month experience with TiVo has been great outside of having to be a comcast customer.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Pain.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

morac said:


> Pain.


+1000. You win.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

Rain,
lots of rain.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

- An "improved" search, full of banners like the current Tivo Search
- Tivo Premiere

that's it.


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## convergent (Jan 4, 2007)

larrs said:


> It would if you could live with two tuners, but other companies offer solutions as well.
> 
> I, for one, would pay $99 plus $2-3 per month for a box that did MRV or Streaming and Netflix/Blockbuster/Amazon/Vudu, etc.


+1... but how can they make money with that model?


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

Haven't seen this posted yet, but here is some speculation from an analyst quoted on Bloomberg about what the new box _could_ be. Nothing too new in here (in fact it sounds like an analyst perused this thread and took the best and/or most outlandish ideas from it), but here it is for someone who wants speculation from the guys that get paid too speculate.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&tkr=TIVO:US&sid=avN3ZibieDkI


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## jvandecar (Feb 10, 2006)

Spoiler



Introducing TiVo Abode!

Quad-tuner TiVo server offers real time streaming to Series 2, Series 3, DirecTV H24 HD and TiVo Premieres on your network.

Thousands of Movies and TV Shows! Millions of songs and videos! Introducing support for Pandora.com and Hulu.com! Stream pictures, songs and video from your PC!

Up to 1350 Hour SD / or 150 HD with 1TB Hard Drive
Multi-stream Cable Card Support
Quad QAM Tuners
Quad ATSC Tuners
802.11 b/g/n
Gigabit ethernet
Dual eSATA ports
Dual USB ports
Pandora and the Music Genome Project are registered trademarks of Pandora Media, Inc. Hulu, the Hulu logo, www.hulu.com, and other Hulu marks, graphics, logos, scripts, and sounds are trademarks of Hulu.

Guy can dream can't he?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Tivo for Satellite TV. That's all.


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## Ennui (Sep 2, 2008)

My Bravia Internet box NV-1 and my PS3 both output 1080P to my TV. Why not the TiVo? Surely they will do more than "catch up".


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## ItsRounder (Feb 28, 2010)

WTF?


> The number of TiVo subscribers fell 21 percent to 2.74 million as of Oct. 31 from 3.46 million in same period in 2008, the company said on Nov. 24.


I guess these must be people faced with lost jobs and having to decide between food on the table or TiVo because I think that would be the only reason I could imagine not having a TiVo. I suppose this could also mean that more people are buying lifetime service instead of paying monthly but it's not clear.



> "You will see us talk about a stunning new way to make the process of finding and selecting video a truly wonderful experience for the consumer," Chief Executive Officer Tom Rogers said yesterday in an interview. He declined to elaborate.
> 
> TiVo plans to announce "significant news" at an event on March 2 in New York, Mike Boccio, a spokesman, said in an e-mail this week.


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## t1voproof (Feb 6, 2010)

trip1eX said:


> Tivo for Satellite TV. That's all.


That would win over a lot of people.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

nrc said:


> 10% of the people here will consider it a big deal.
> 55% of the people here will be disappointed but consider it decent upgrade from the current product.
> 25% of the people here will be disappointed and stick with their current TiVo product.
> 10% will report that Tivo is doomed.


What about those of us who won't be disappointed in the very least and will stick with their current product? Right now there is nothing - and I mean nothing - which would induce me to spend several hundred (or thousand) dollars to dump my present TiVos. In these sparse times, I imagine there are a lot of us in the same boat.

As to being disappointed, with the exception of an effective Gig-E interface, nothing I have seen suggested gives me any kind of salivary response, so I could hardly be disappointed, no matter what.


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## ItsRounder (Feb 28, 2010)

I think the search will become an aggregator of content from all kinds of sources. Search for soccer and you'll get what's on TV, Youtube videos, shows from Hulu, Netflix movies and more all on one search screen.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

samo said:


> No they don't. They do insert some extra lines for on-demand channels between guide lines. These lines are same size as regular but are multicolor to grab your attention. These extra lines are not paid advertisement for the products, but are quite usefull to set up recording for on-demand channels if you wish. There is almost never more than 1 extra line on a guide screen except just before area of PPV channels - it show half a dozen or so on-demand PPV moves you can order, mostly ones that are available in 1080P.


+1 :up:

samo, don't you love it when people don't know what the hell they're talking about?

As far as ads on DirecTV receivers go, I HAVE seen third party ads, but in very esoteric places. The "mix" channels and the new interactive features (red button) are a prime example.

___


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

samo said:


> No they don't. They do insert some extra lines for on-demand channels between guide lines. These lines are same size as regular but are multicolor to grab your attention.


So apparently "no they don't" means something different in your world.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

wmcbrine said:


> So apparently "no they don't" means something different in your world.


"No they don't" means that they don't do what you describe


> Ads inside guide channel listing, such as, ch3, ch4, *BUY ROLAIDS*, ch5, ch6, *while ads cover 1/2 the screen of the guide*.


There is a difference between product advertisement and extra link to on-demand program that does not show in regular guide and has to be searched for by going to on-demand menu. These extra lines are not inserted in random either. Sports on-demand are incerted between sports channel listings, movies on -demand are incerted between premium movie channels. If I'm looking for the movies on Showtime or Starz and they show me an extra movie that can download on-demand I don't mind it at all.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

samo said:


> "No they don't" means that they don't do what you describe


:up:

___


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Fixer said:


> As far as ads on DirecTV receivers go, I HAVE seen third party ads, but in very esoteric places. The "mix" channels and the new interactive features (red button) are a prime example.
> 
> ___


For the benefit of people who don't have DirecTV and don't know what you are talking about.
Mix channels:
There are special channels on DirecTV that show in a split screen up to 8 channels at once. Like 8 news channels or 8 sports channels. By moving cursor to any of the screens you get a sound from this channel while watching what is going on on seven others. If you click on a screen you switch to the channel you want to watch.
I only seen ads on sports mix. These ads are like a banner ads above the split screens. If you click red button you can access Scoreguide that will show you current games scores for the sport you selected.
Interactive channels:
If you hit "active" button on remote you will be taken to channel that allows you to access interactive applications like weather or "whats hot" (application that shows you in real time what are most watched shows ranked from 1 to 5 grouped by region, national or movies and sports, you can switch channel by clicking on a show that you like)
The bottom left 1/9 of the screen shows some kind of ad.
Both "mix" channels and "interactive" channels are kind of gravy - they are no cost add-ons that some people like. If you don't select them - you don't see them.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

samo said:


> "No they don't" means that they don't do what you describe


What bschuler2007 described, but anyway -- saying that it doesn't cover half the screen is nitpicking, at best. The essential point is that it interrupts the guide listings, in exactly the manner he described. And the distinction between third-party ads and ads for VOD is completely irrelevant. An ad is an ad.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

wmcbrine said:


> The essential point is that it interrupts the guide listings, in exactly the manner he described. And the distinction between third-party ads and ads for VOD is completely irrelevant. An ad is an ad.


Ad is an ad, but listing is a listing. VOD listings take same space as regular listings do and do not interupt the guide anymore than Food channel listings. Guide lists descriptions of the shows available to record or watch. VOD are shows that you can record or watch. They belong in a guide.
Just to give people an idea of what we are arguing about here. At last check,
there is one extra line in a grid between news channels with a link to Olympics VOD, there is one extra line in HBO area with a link to VOD movie and there are about half a dozen extra lines with links to 1080P VOD PPV movies right before the area for channels with 1080P PPV movies. That is it.
Instead of being regular white on blue text VOD listings are multi-color on white background with some graphics. They can be done this way because there is an extra space due to the fact that they do not have to fit in a given time slot in a grid. You can see them as a chief specials on restaurant menu. Equating VOD listings in a guide to the product ads is a gross exaggeration.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

wmcbrine said:


> What bschuler2007 described, but anyway -- saying that it doesn't cover half the screen is nitpicking, at best. The essential point is that it interrupts the guide listings, in exactly the manner he described. And the distinction between third-party ads and ads for VOD is completely irrelevant. An ad is an ad.


straw man. 



bschuler2007 said:


> 1) New pause based animated ads selling beer during kids shows.
> 2) Ads inside guide channel listing, such as, ch3, ch4, BUY ROLAIDS, ch5, ch6, while ads cover 1/2 the screen of the guide.
> 3) After recording ad insertion (dynamically changes ads on recordings)
> 4) New Tivo hardware that will be used for Directv, Best Buy, RCN, inside TV guts and Tivo.
> ...


This was clearly "tongue in cheek", and was referring to TiVo, not DirecTV.



wmcbrine said:


> DirecTV (non-TiVo) DVRs have that misfeature already.


This is a reply to the "Rolaids ad in the guide" statement, implying that DirecTV intersperses third-party ads within the guide. Anyone that has been a DirecTV customer for any length of time knows this is not true. The "potāto/potäto" argument you are attempting is clearly designed to draw attention away from TiVo's own frowned upon ad delivery mechanisms. :down:

___


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Because "no one wants them anyway," Cablecard support will end as of 12/31/2010.

A new tuning adapter will be available "starting at $9.99/month", but your cable company will charge at least $14.95/month.

ReplayTV pricing will be adopted, so the TivoHD XL will now cost $700 but include 3 years of service.


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

ItsRounder said:


> WTF?
> 
> I guess these must be people faced with lost jobs and having to decide between food on the table or TiVo because I think that would be the only reason I could imagine not having a TiVo. I suppose this could also mean that more people are buying lifetime service instead of paying monthly but it's not clear.


One of those was me, and I have a good job. I had a total of 4 TiVos, 2 Series 1 lifetime (first one a 14GB Phillips in 2000, I think) , and 2 Series 2 on yearly subscription ($200/year) . This is only my situation, but I found that the new Windows 7 MCE met "my" needs better. I wanted to record (multiple) OTA ATSC channels, AND record my SD satellite feed. Series 2 can't record ATSC. Series 3 can't record satellite channels.

I built a HTPC (~$350), purchased two combo tuners, and can now record 3 OTA/1 Satellite channel at once. I can stream live or recorded TV to any extender (x-box and Linksys) or to any PC in my house. I stream music, home videos, pictures to any room in my house (no "please wait while this downloads to your box. If you start watching now, the program may pause/skip") I can play any DVD in my collection from any room in my house. I can schedule recordings from any room or the internet. I can watch Hulu/Netflix (though not on the extenders, only on the PC's). There is no ongoing monthly cost. There are no ads in the UI.

Trick play? Check. 30 second skip? Check. One hour buffer? Check. Fast forward/rewind? Check. Season pass? Check (called series). Wishlist? Check. (search by keyword). Add storage? Multiple GB, from ANY combination of local/network storage locations, Check. Conflict resolution and series priority? Check. Start watching on one TV, and finish on another? Check. Easy copy to another computer for DVD generation or download to ipod? Check, and no slow/failed transfers or extra software needed to decode .tivo files.

It is exactly the TiVo UI? No. Does it have ALL TiVo features? No. I miss suggestions (I miss giving Keith Olberman 3 thumbs down). I miss skip to tick. It doesn't have multiple live buffers.

I'm not dissing TiVo. I still have one in service on my bedroom Dish receiver, and I'm waiting with 'bated breath for the DirecTiVo, which may cause me to switch to HD satellite.

In my opinion, TiVo needs to up it's game to appeal not to us fanboys (it's already got us), but to the masses that are spoiled by HD, flashy, fast interfaces, and expect content anywhere, and integration with all their media sources, whether they be internet, OTA, DVD, cable, satellite, and want to send it anywhere.

Of course, this was a discussion of MY needs, and my impressions of what TiVo needs to do. As can be seen in this thread, it is different than that of many who post here.


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

Ok, so here another prediction of mine that I have been thinking about:

I have a feeling its gonna be something like the current Tivo search integrated with season passes. That is, when you setup a Season Pass for a show it will create a folder in your NPL for that show. Going into that folder will allow you to view any recordings, but also view the show from a myriad of online sources. So if you have a netflix account, all back episodes on netflix that are streamable are available. if TiVo couldn't record the latest episode due to a conflict, you can purchase it commercial free through amazon/cinemanow. Or you can stream it from the network's website with commercials. 

The way that this changes the way we watch tv is that DVRs originally freed us from the Networks timeslots. We could watch shows whenever we wanted, but we still had to make the decision to record the show prior to the season/series starting to get the entire season/series (ignoring suggestions for now). Now we are freed from the networks seasons. Now you can decide that you want to start watching a show half way through the season, or even multiple seasons in and still be able to watch the entire series from the beginning (assuming those back episodes are online somewhere).

I know some other devices/software does something similar (I know boxee has an integrated view of multiple online sources), but perhaps TiVo will improve on it. Anyway, just something I've been thinking about...


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

wmc is nice i use to play my tivo files. but leaving my desktop on all day uses to much power.



snedecor said:


> One of those was me, and I have a good job. I had a total of 4 TiVos, 2 Series 1 lifetime (first one a 14GB Phillips in 2000, I think) , and 2 Series 2 on yearly subscription ($200/year) . This is only my situation, but I found that the new Windows 7 MCE met "my" needs better. I wanted to record (multiple) OTA ATSC channels, AND record my SD satellite feed. Series 2 can't record ATSC. Series 3 can't record satellite channels.
> 
> I built a HTPC (~$350), purchased two combo tuners, and can now record 3 OTA/1 Satellite channel at once. I can stream live or recorded TV to any extender (x-box and Linksys) or to any PC in my house. I stream music, home videos, pictures to any room in my house (no "please wait while this downloads to your box. If you start watching now, the program may pause/skip") I can play any DVD in my collection from any room in my house. I can schedule recordings from any room or the internet. I can watch Hulu/Netflix (though not on the extenders, only on the PC's). There is no ongoing monthly cost. There are no ads in the UI.
> 
> ...


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

I predict the following:

2 tuners
new UI
Tru2way
an apps store (with apps such as facebook etc)
Lots of bells and whistles with the new UI (free space indicator anyone?)


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

So when is this Tivo press conference?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

when will we know today?


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> an apps store (with apps such as facebook etc)


I think that is a good possibility. Might be interesting to see what people come up with.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

b_scott said:


> when will we know today?


We will all know for sure by 7PM eastern time tonight. That is when the press embargo is lifted.

I'm sure there will be leaks all throughout the day today.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> We will all know for sure by 7PM eastern time tonight. That is when the press embargo is lifted.
> 
> I'm sure there will be leaks all throughout the day today.





ferrumpneuma said:


> Other threads claim 6 pm eastern with the media blackout ending at 7 pm.


that is what Black Betty said - we know for sure at 7pm since folks like Dave can post a blog (that I just know he dilligently wrote last night )
the actual press conference by TiVo inc. starts at 6pm EST at Rockefeller center. No idea when TiVo itself plans to post its press release. I can deal with 7pm myself and leave worries of scoop posts to others as I will be happily using my TiVo DVR.....


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

b_scott said:


> when will we know today?


go to bing.com and click on news and search for tivo in the news. thats what i been doing. no news so far


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

I think it will be a combo DVR and gaming console (no, I don't really think that - but it would be cool if it was).


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

I bet it will be a combo TiVo and VCR.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fixer said:


> This is a reply to the "Rolaids ad in the guide" statement


No, it was a response to "ads in the guide". The "Rolaids" part was, at least in my mind, a meaningless example. I wouldn't find "Watch Harry Potter 6!" any less obnoxious.

Yes, bschuler2007 was indeed making a tounge-in-cheek comment, coming up with new and outrageous ways for TiVo to add more ads to its interface. I was just pointing out that one of his imaginings had already become reality on another platform, so as horrible as it sounded, it sadly wasn't unrealistic. It's possible he was already familiar with the DirecTV DVR feature, though; I don't know.



> _Anyone that has been a DirecTV customer for any length of time knows this is not true._


I haven't been a DirecTV customer since they started doing this, but I've seen it at my sister's house, and five minutes was enough to make me think "OMG this is hideous."



> _The "potāto/potäto" argument you are attempting is clearly designed to draw attention away from TiVo's own frowned upon ad delivery mechanisms._


That's absurd. I despise TiVo's ads. Please, try to find any statement by me where I defend them. I'd like to see every one of them purged. But yes, I'm glad the TiVos don't _also_ have this horrible kind of ad that the DirecTV DVRs have... yet.

I am not otherwise taking any position about TiVos vs. DirecTV DVRs, or anything else. I don't have a pro-TiVo or anti-DirecTV agenda, although it seems that you and samo do have a pro-DirecTV agenda. My agenda is that I hate ads, all of them, and I don't want TiVo to follow DirecTV's example in this regard.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> I bet it will be a combo TiVo and VCR.


I want VHS and Toast


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## willv28 (Nov 18, 2009)

TiVo + Automatic Bacon Machine


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

willv28 said:


> TiVo + Automatic Bacon Machine


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

6/7 pm is an odd time to be making a public announcement and so far no leaks. TiVo is not Apple. Either they really don't want to make an announcement or they don't want to deal with some blow back until the morning or this is going to a very slow roll out with many hiccups.
I am thinking roll up problem like Netflix.


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

My thoughts are we'll probably see a new streaming service being rolled out by best buy. Support for this new service will probably be built into some BB house brand electronics and the tivos.

We'll also see tivo make the switch from the regular search, to the new HD search which has been in beta for eternity.

Of course, a given is the new premier boxes... a qwerty remote for text entry is possible, or even an official 1st party iphone wifi remote control app with onscreen keyboard (The 3rd party one tivo currently supports doesnt do text entry)

I think they'll make a big deal about the new "UI" (Search UI brought out of beta) and act like this is something revolutionary which no one has seen yet... ignoring the fact that most users have at least played around with it a little. Somehow I doubt we'll get a redesigned tivo central screen, and other menus... It will probably be limited only to the searching...


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

not "predictions", but things that i want.

1) speed speed speed. i can't believe how long it takes just to record a single episode of a show. and they should be embarrassed at how long it takes to browse through the guide.

2) sling support (i.e. using tivo as a slingplayer). would be cool but very unlikely. playing nice with sling media and the possibility of people buying tivo's without subscribing to their guide would be too much. although having tivo do live streaming of content to your PC over your home network (or outside your network) would be very very cool.

3) faster transfers using tivodesktop. a single HD movie can take several hours to transfer to my PC.

4) no ads when pausing (yeah, right)

5) PIP

6) faster boot up. i really don't get how it should take that long to boot up. when i accidentally knock the power cable out, i don't want to miss out on half of the show i'm recording.


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

radams said:


> 2) sling support (i.e. using tivo as a slingplayer). would be cool but very unlikely. playing nice with sling media and the possibility of people buying tivo's without subscribing to their guide would be too much. although having tivo do live streaming of content to your PC over your home network (or outside your network) would be very very cool.


Although I mentioned this on another thread, I figured it was worth responding here:
I didnt see any merrit to this rumor, until I noticed that the slingbox is no longer listed in the tivo shop. That seems odd, because I know at some point in time tivo did sell slingboxes... I have 3 guesses to what this means:
1) strictly coincidence
2) Tivo has developed thier own "place shifting" technology, or teamed up with someone else for this
3) Tivo has teamed up with sling to include this feature in the box itself, or tivo desktop, and the sling box will no longer be needed for tivo users...

I'm thinking #1 though


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

Just wanted to add one more prediction:
Tivo, in a rare brilliant move, figures out to use personal 5 digit numeric passwords on Tivos to access all web based things. The 5 digit password is linked to your Tivo and Amazon, Youtube, etc. info that you setup online at Tivo's website using a computer ahead of time.
After a one time simple online setup, their is no more 45 minutes to enter long but secure Amazon info or Youtube login info. Just 5 simple digits and your renting or watching. Yippee! VOD use skyrockets when it takes less time to rent a movie than to watch one.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

adessmith said:


> Although I mentioned this on another thread, I figured it was worth responding here:
> I didnt see any merrit to this rumor, until I noticed that the slingbox is no longer listed in the tivo shop. That seems odd, because I know at some point in time tivo did sell slingboxes... I have 3 guesses to what this means:
> 1) strictly coincidence
> 2) Tivo has developed thier own "place shifting" technology, or teamed up with someone else for this
> ...


Or it could have to do with the fact that Slingbox is made by the company they are in a major lawsuit battle with (Sling is owned by Echo/Dish).


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## jakerome (Nov 29, 2002)

Final predictions, from done deals to absolute longshots:

TiVo Premiere&#8230; premieres
New TiVo interface
New boxes include Tru2Way/ SDV
More online integration
New box debuts at surprisingly low $150
Hulu deal announced
DirecTV boxes demoed
Echostar lawsuit settlement announced


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

radams said:


> 1) speed speed speed. i can't believe how long it takes just to record a single episode of a show ...


How is the TiVo supposed to record a show faster than it is broadcast? Are you suggesting that they incorporate some sort of time machine into the new Premiere units?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

gweempose said:


> How is the TiVo supposed to record a show faster than it is broadcast? Are you suggesting that they incorporate some sort of time machine into the new Premiere units?


LOL.

of course he means to search for and set a recording.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

radams said:


> not "predictions", but things that i want.
> 
> 1) speed speed speed. i can't believe how long it takes just to record a single episode of a show.


Not sure what you mean by this? The Tivo can't record a show faster than it's being broadcast.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

adessmith said:


> I think they'll make a big deal about the new "UI" (Search UI brought out of beta) and act like this is something revolutionary ...


If this turns out to be the main focus of their announcement today, TiVo is going to have a lot of seriously disappointed customers on their hands.


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## Riverdome (May 12, 2005)

New hardware with the ability to stream content from NBC.com and an open invite to other networks. Qwerty remote, FINALLY. Best Buy exclusive B&M retail outlet. And other promises that may or may not become vaporware.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

they need to have a marker in the guide that shows that you already have a show set to record.


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## whitenack (Aug 26, 2008)

IF they are talking big, like inventing the DVR just being a "warmup", maybe they are coming out with a box that bypasses all the cable companies and lets you download the shows, over the internet, straight from the cable company. No more commercials, no more waiting for the show to air, no more cable bills. Just a subscription to Tivo and direct access to the shows.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Riverdome said:


> New hardware with the ability to stream content from NBC.com and an open invite to other networks. Qwerty remote, FINALLY. Best Buy exclusive B&M retail outlet. And other promises that may or may not become vaporware.


qwerty remote would need to be RF. Can you imagine having to point while you type that?

plus, doesn't help us Harmony users :down:


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

whitenack said:


> IF they are talking big, like inventing the DVR just being a "warmup", maybe they are coming out with a box that bypasses all the cable companies and lets you download the shows, over the internet, straight from the cable company. No more commercials, no more waiting for the show to air, no more cable bills. Just a subscription to Tivo and direct access to the shows.


hahahaahahhahahaahahaaha

yeah the networks would go for that.


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## whitenack (Aug 26, 2008)

b_scott said:


> hahahaahahhahahaahahaaha
> 
> yeah the networks would go for that.


Hahah, the networks may not be in a strong negotiating position right now. The writing is on the wall. Pretty soon, we won't have TV's anymore. Everyone will watch their TV on computers, streamed from the internet. Places like Hulu, and Hulu's decendants, will take over. Shows are already putting their content online.

There is very little on TV that can't also be viewed, free, from the internet.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

whitenack said:


> Hahah, the networks may not be in a strong negotiating position right now. The writing is on the wall. Pretty soon, we won't have TV's anymore. Everyone will watch their TV on computers, streamed from the internet. Places like Hulu, and Hulu's decendants, will take over. Shows are already putting their content online.
> 
> There is very little on TV that can't also be viewed, free, from the internet.


i'm talking about no commercials. maybe they would do that (but no way will it happen today), however, they'll still have commercials in the programs. Commercials are the whole reason there are TV shows. That's what pays the bills.


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## Riverdome (May 12, 2005)

b_scott said:


> qwerty remote would need to be RF. Can you imagine having to point while you type that?
> 
> plus, doesn't help us Harmony users :down:


I'm a Harmony user myself so I see where you are coming from. BUT...

1) I don't need the keyboard often but when I do I would MUCH rather use a small qwerty than the current system, even if that required reaching for the other remote on the other side of the room.

2) If a device can accept a qwerty input I wouldn't be shocked if Harmony came out with a similar model.

3) Ignoring Harmony for a moment, why couldn't such a device be bluetooth?


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Riverdome said:


> I'm a Harmony user myself so I see where you are coming from. BUT...
> 
> 1) I don't need the keyboard often but when I do I would MUCH rather use a small qwerty than the current system, even if that required reaching for the other remote on the other side of the room.
> 
> ...


Bluetooth is (a form of) RF. So's wifi.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Riverdome said:


> I'm a Harmony user myself so I see where you are coming from. BUT...
> 
> 1) I don't need the keyboard often but when I do I would MUCH rather use a small qwerty than the current system, even if that required reaching for the other remote on the other side of the room.
> 
> ...


could be bluetooth, sure. my point was IR would be a pain. But BT would be even worse for any universal system since most use regular RF if anything. in RE: to #1 though, yeah that could be alright, but I'm not buying it. I'll just search on my mac and record from there.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

radams said:


> not "predictions", but things that i want.
> 
> 1) speed speed speed. i can't believe how long it takes just to record a single episode of a show. and they should be embarrassed at how long it takes to browse through the guide.


I think about this every time I try to delete something from the Season Pass Manager. There's no reason they can't incorporate logic to make this MUCH faster. For example:

- Are there any upcoming episodes of this season pass scheduled?

- If there are any showings scheduled, do any of them overlap with any shows beneath it?

It the answer to +1 is "no", it shouldn't take more than a second to delete the pass and move the ones below it up by one position.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

b_scott said:


> qwerty remote would need to be RF. Can you imagine having to point while you type that?
> 
> plus, doesn't help us Harmony users :down:


As long as there are multiple IR emitters it shouldn't be an issue. On my Harmony with two emitters and my Harmony with three emitters, I can point the remote in any direction and the TiVo responds to it. Even when putting the remote behind the couch and aiming it at the floor, it works with no issues.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Final predictions;

*Certainty*

1. New TiVo "magic" search that will search the guide, recorded programs, youtube, netflix, amazon and other content providers. Possibly even indexing and searching of home content a la extender functionality.

2. New HD interface

*Likely*

1. Some additional applet functionality such as facebook/twitter integration. If we're unbelievably lucky than a flash based Slingbox app for the TiVo.

2. New hardware offerings with incremental improvements in speed/storage capacities. Nothing groundbreaking.

*We Wish*

1. Quad tuner.
2. Full extender capabilities.
3. Multi-room streaming to "Mini TiVos" (help break down monthly price barrier for people who need multiple boxes).
4. Open API for TiVo App Store for Flash Lite apps for the TiVo.
5. Integrated Wifi.
6. Qwerty BLUETHOOTH keyboard included with all models.
7. iPhone/iPad/Android apps for interactive display of content and recording/viewing management.


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## thespacepope72 (Jan 25, 2005)

Filing for bankruptcy and a blow-out sale on intellectual property and patents and used S2 TiVos.


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

Riverdome said:


> I'm a Harmony user myself so I see where you are coming from. BUT...
> 
> 1) I don't need the keyboard often but when I do I would MUCH rather use a small qwerty than the current system, even if that required reaching for the other remote on the other side of the room.


Exactally what I was thinking.
I am a huge advicate of harmony remotes... I own 2 (livingroom and bedroom), and many of my family members have purchased them based on my recomendations.
However... I'd keep the tivo remote handy if it had a keyboard. I'm not that lazy. 2 remotes are still better than 6!

Besides, I have always missed having the little colorful tivo button at the top since switching to my harmony remote. LOL

Although I would have to seriously consider it if logitech released a qwerty harmony remote... I wish they would actually create a tivo branded remote, didnt they do one made specifically for the 360 or something at one point?


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

sethjvm said:


> Filing for bankruptcy and a blow-out sale on intellectual property and patents and used S2 TiVos.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I would still love to see them implement a single integrated Season Pass Manager for multiple TiVos in the same house.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

aindik said:


> I would still love to see them implement a single integrated Season Pass Manager for multiple TiVos in the same house.


agreed. tired of trying to figure out what's needed on which TiVo.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

sethjvm said:


> Filing for bankruptcy and a blow-out sale on intellectual property and patents and used S2 TiVos.


After all the other "final predictions", I ROFLed.  Bravo.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

new hardware? weak. 

hellooooooo htpc cable card tuner with windows media center.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

radams said:


> new hardware? weak.
> 
> hellooooooo htpc cable card tuner with windows media center.


+1

I've been a Tivo user for almost 8 years... have two TivoHDs that are running FiOS cablecards... I love Tivo, but at this point, I am going to jump on the Ceton 4 tuner card and Windows 7 Media Center for my two TVs.

The up-front cost for a 1080p capable system is about $300 each now, the tuner is going to be $400... So the total is about $400 more than I paid for the two Tivo HDs... but I'll get ALL the flexibility in the world, all the streaming content I can handle, access to ALL of my full resolution DVD/Blu-Ray rips as well as FLAC audio rips... and NO monthly fees for the Tivo service... add that to the fact that I'll have one less cablecard rental from Verizon and I'll be saving almost $30 per month... for faster service with more flexibility.

I've been planning this for a while and I'm all ready as soon as Ceton releases their card. Part of me was hoping Tivo would come out with something compelling as part of this announcement, but part of me is ready to say good riddance... with all of the other developments that have been going on in the home video/tv streamer marketplace, I can't believe this is all Tivo has to offer.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wombat94 said:


> access to ALL of my full resolution DVD/Blu-Ray rips as well as FLAC audio rips... and


so the media center PC is directly hooked to both TVs?

or is that 2 PCs at 300$ each (how does that include a way to RIP Bluray and how much hard Drive to store it all? and one of them has the CETON card in it?


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

I really thought the announcement would be dissapointing, but I didnt realize it was gonna be this bad.

Basically, they took the HD interface we were supposed to get on the Tivo HD, and put it on a new box, and they want us to ditch our old boxes and dish out $300 or $500 because the box we originally bought turned out not to be powerful enough to do HD menus.

Im really liking the idea of the Moxi, I think when my tivos die, I'm going to go that route.
You get so much more functionality... and there is no monthly fee, no matter how many boxes you have...


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

sethjvm said:


> Filing for bankruptcy and a blow-out sale on intellectual property and patents and used S2 TiVos.


I need them to last until about 9:31 am eastern tomorrow morning.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so the media center PC is directly hooked to both TVs?
> 
> or is that 2 PCs at 300$ each (how does that include a way to RIP Bluray and how much hard Drive to store it all? and one of them has the CETON card in it?


2 separate PCs - about $300 each. One has a DVD drive, the other a Blu-Ray reader... I didn't include the cost of ripping software - AnyDVD by SlySoft - not cheap, but worth it.

The Ceton will go in the one in the living room. Ceton is promising that the 4 tuners will be able to be shared over the network. All recording will happen on the living room box - but the bedroom box will have access to a tuner for live TV. Fortunately, I have FiOS TV, so I don't have to worry about the CCI byte tying recordings only to the box that made them - I'll be able to record in the LR and playback in the BR at will.

As for storage - not much in each PC - 320 to 500 GB only. I have a Windows Home Server that has 4.5TB (and room to grow). WHS also has integration with W7MC to automatically collect recorded content from a local machine and place it on the server.

About the only thing I won't have at this point is access to Netflix HD streaming, but I'll live without that given the benefits of single box Win7MC/Boxee/Hulu Desktop


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

adessmith said:


> ... and there is no monthly fee, no matter how many boxes you have...


I'm so tired of hearing people say that. The reason there is "no monthly fee" with Moxi is because you pay it up front. Tivo also gives you this option, it's called "product lifetime service". Tivo gives you a choice, Moxi doesn't, advantage Tivo. Please find a different reason to prefer Moxi. Depending on your preferences there may be legitimate reasons to prefer Moxi, but "no monthly fee" is not one of them.


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

spocko said:


> I'm so tired of hearing people say that. The reason there is "no monthly fee" with Moxi is because you pay it up front. Tivo also gives you this option, it's called "product lifetime service". Tivo gives you a choice, Moxi doesn't, advantage Tivo. Please find a different reason to prefer Moxi. Depending on your preferences there may be legitimate reasons to prefer Moxi, but "no monthly fee" is not one of them.


Maybe there is some hidden cost I'm not aware of:
I just dont get your reasoning on this one.

Upfront Cost for Moxi HD: $499
Upfront Cost for Tivo HDXL: $499
Lifetime service for Moxi HD: Free
Lifetime service for Tivo: $399

Totals:
Tivo = $898
Moxi = $399

And thats assuming you only have one box. It is much much cheaper to moxi mates to each room in your house than to buy additional tivos for every room.
Each mate is $299 upfront, with again, no subscription fee.
So if you were gonna skimp and not get the bigger Tivo, its still $400 cheaper per room.

3 Room Bundle:
Tivo= ~$2200 (1-TivoHDXL, 2-TivoHD, 3-Lifetime subscriptions)
Moxi= $999

With Moxi you pay upfront for the BOXs, there is no service fee.
With Tivo you pay upront for the BOXs AND either pay monthly or upfront for the service fee.

I dont see how your argument holds water.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

wombat94 said:


> 2 separate PCs - about $300 each. One has a DVD drive, the other a Blu-Ray reader... I didn't include the cost of ripping software - AnyDVD by SlySoft - not cheap, but worth it.
> 
> The Ceton will go in the one in the living room. Ceton is promising that the 4 tuners will be able to be shared over the network. All recording will happen on the living room box - but the bedroom box will have access to a tuner for live TV. Fortunately, I have FiOS TV, so I don't have to worry about the CCI byte tying recordings only to the box that made them - I'll be able to record in the LR and playback in the BR at will.
> 
> ...


This is a very compelling argument. Can you point me in the direction of more info? I had cat 5 run all over my house and maybe it is time to do the research and move to something else. Not sure.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

adessmith said:


> Maybe there is some hidden cost I'm not aware of:
> I just dont get your reasoning on this one.
> 
> Upfront Cost for Moxi HD: $499
> Upfront Cost for Tivo HDXL: $499


 umm compare to the TiVo HD that is 250$ at retail and getting cheaper. And now the TiVo premiere that has same size drive(I think) and HD Ui for 299$



> 3 Room Bundle:
> Tivo= ~$2200 (1-TivoHDXL, 2-TivoHD, 3-Lifetime subscriptions)
> Moxi= $999
> 
> ...


with TiVo you have 6 tuners - 2 for each room and I actually like that each room has its own now playing list - I do not have to look at all the shows my kids record in the play room for instance but they can still MRV them downstairs and watch them there if that is what we want.

Also I have OTA in the bedroom since that is all I want there. it defends me against local cable when they have a dust up over fees with the local channels like FOX. You can not get that on Moxi.

so your argument has holes in it and the water pours out for some folks. This board has been all over the two models and it always comes down to what the individuals want that decides which pros and cons match and which system to get.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

adessmith said:


> Maybe there is some hidden cost I'm not aware of:
> I just dont get your reasoning on this one.
> 
> Upfront Cost for Moxi HD: $499
> ...


Your math doesn't add up. Throughout the post, the moxi went from $499 to $399 to $333?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

adessmith said:


> Maybe there is some hidden cost I'm not aware of:
> I just dont get your reasoning on this one.
> 
> Upfront Cost for Moxi HD: $499
> ...


your math being wrong aside- than the compelling argument is that moxi's total cost of ownership with lifetime service is cheaper (and that seems to be a fact even besides you poor math). But the fact that tivo has an OPTION to pay monthly has nothing to do with it.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

wombat94 said:


> 2 separate PCs - about $300 each. One has a DVD drive, the other a Blu-Ray reader... I didn't include the cost of ripping software - AnyDVD by SlySoft - not cheap, but worth it.
> 
> The Ceton will go in the one in the living room. Ceton is promising that the 4 tuners will be able to be shared over the network. All recording will happen on the living room box - but the bedroom box will have access to a tuner for live TV. Fortunately, I have FiOS TV, so I don't have to worry about the CCI byte tying recordings only to the box that made them - I'll be able to record in the LR and playback in the BR at will.
> 
> ...


i have almost an identical setup. 2 pc's (though instead of a separate WHS box, i just crammed 6TB onto my living room HTPC), both sharing all of my music, pics and movies (several bluray rips and a couple hundred HD tivodesktop-transfered movies with the awesome MediaBrowser plugin) over my Cat5 network (you need Cat5 to reliably share HD content like bluray rips - wifi isn't there yet). i'll be getting either the Ceton or HDHomerun tuner. i like the HDHomerun since it's a separate box hooked up to your network, so i could keep it in my basement next to my network switch instead of cramming the Ceton card into my crowded PC. but Ceton has 4 tuners and is coming out a lot sooner...so it'll probably be the choice. and since i have fios, i can save my HD DVR recordings to my HDD and share them with across my home network.

it's a little bit of legwork and requires some expertise, but if you have the ability to set up an HTPC, you'll fall in love with it and have a pretty decent amount of contempt over Tivo's flaws.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

larrs said:


> This is a very compelling argument. Can you point me in the direction of more info? I had cat 5 run all over my house and maybe it is time to do the research and move to something else. Not sure.


I'm still coming up to speed on it myself... baby steps as I get ready for the release of the Ceton cablecard quad tuner card.

The two places that I've found the most help and assistance are thegreenbutton.com (Media Center forums) and

boxee.tv

In the forums at boxee.tv there is quite a bit of discussion on appropriate hardware for 1080p decoding display while still keeping noise/heat/power consumption to a minimum.


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

MichaelK said:


> your math being wrong aside- than the compelling argument is that moxi's total cost of ownership with lifetime service is cheaper (and that seems to be a fact even besides you poor math). But the fact that tivo has an OPTION to pay monthly has nothing to do with it.


LOL, you got me there, the $399 was a typo... I was running late this morning and my post was rushed.

I guess it does make since for some individuals, and not for others.

I live in a location where Digital OTA is impossible to pickup. So I'm stuck with cable, or a dish. So the OTA option of tivo has no impact for me.
I have 2 Tivo HDs, one for the living room, one for the bedroom.
I have found that the ONLY reason we use the one in the bedroom is for MRV. and have found that the more HD material we record the rougher that situation gets. With HD We have to plan a transfer a good deal ahead of time, if we want to be able to fast forward at all. We hardly ever have both tuners recording at the same time, and when they are one of them is usually a suggestion.

So with multi room viewing being my primary reason for having 2 tivos, the streaming ability of the Moxi is really appealing. Also the interface looks really slick. I've never had much issue with the 2 tuners in the HD. We never schedule anything on the 2nd HD, so we are only using 2 tuners.
And for 2 boxes, the TCO is also very appealing for me. But I'm still under a contract for the last THD I purchased. (I dont think there are any contracts with Moxi)

I just see the moxi as being much more innovative at this point in the game. If moxi ever had some sort of "switch from tivo" promo, which cut the costs even further, Im afraid I'd have to jump ship.

Dont get me wrong, I've been a HUGE tivo fanboy...
I started with the series 2, because they were doing things no one else was doing at the time. When I went digital, I chose to try my cable co DVR... That lasted for about 1 week before I switched to direct TV only because they had the HD DirecTivo. I was hooked on tivo. When that box died, and was discontinued, I ditched DirecTV, because I HAD TO HAVE A TIVO and ran out and bought the HD. Later, when the HD got the MRV stuff, I purchased another for our bedroom. I've always defended Tivo because they had the best interface, and most innovative features, of any DVR out there... However, they have let these things that sets them appart slip away from them. Where are all their R&D funds going exactally? In my eyes now, all the things I love about the tivo, can be done better, and cheaper, by someone else.

I guess it just chaps my hide, that they have hinted at this HDUI for a long time (with the search beta on OUR boxes) and now we find out this "big announcement" was just that they were using our boxes as a test platform for their next product... which is hardly innovative at all. So my box (which was released less that 3 years ago) is being discontinued and replaced by something else that basically does the same thing, with almost no additional features, but has the pretty eye candy which they have teased us with... I can only imagine how the HDXL users feel...

I'm sure not everyone feels this way, but it makes me wonder how long the Tivo Premiere will be on the market before they screw those early adpoters just like they did with the Series 3, and the HDXL.

I hope they have something that is powerful enough now to actually build on. At this point in the game flash is extreemly CPU intensive, even on modern processors. So I hope they havent again chose the specs based on the current needs, with no room for future improvements... at least the CPU is multi core. Maybe they will have the muscle to actually do some interesting stuff now... I'm just not sure if I'm willing to take a chance again on this.
I really thought the HD and HDXL would be on the market for a couple more years.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

there are a couple things about an HTPC that will make you pull your hair out...but the main one for me was getting a raw, 5.1/7.1 signal sent from my PC to my AV Receiver. depending on your hardware, you might spend days trying to figure it out. but in the end, you'll be in good shape. also, playing certain file types (specifically .mkv bluray rips) can be a little annoying, but again, just get through the setup and you're home free. 

and i made the mistake of building my pc's from scratch. after paying for all the separate parts and new Win7 licenses i spent a lot more than i would have if i just got a factory-line pc from a big company. a friend of mine just found a floor model laptop for $350 at best buy that has everything you'd need to get going. 

my recommendation for a setup would be:

1) a WHS box to keep your hard drives in. HDD space is paramount. you want to be able to permanently save your HD recordings, but each one is 10-15GB for cable and 15-25GB for bluray. so splurge and get a bunch of 2TB drives.

2) cheap-o pcs to run as "client" pcs that just sit near your tv/receiver. they don't need much...Win7, any newer dual core processor, 4GB of RAM, 32 bit is fine, no real hard drive space since it will just be a client.

3) AnyDVDHD to rip blurays. not that i would ever do this *ahem* but with HDD space and AnyDVD, you could get a netflix account...and rip all your blurays to your WHS box. this would alleviate the need to pay 20-30 bucks a month to your cable provider. not exactly legal...so..umm...just make sure you're ripping blurays that you already own...yeaaahhh


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## adessmith (Oct 5, 2007)

radams said:


> there are a couple things about an HTPC that will make you pull your hair out...but the main one for me was getting a raw, 5.1/7.1 signal sent from my PC to my AV Receiver. depending on your hardware, you might spend days trying to figure it out. but in the end, you'll be in good shape. also, playing certain file types (specifically .mkv bluray rips) can be a little annoying, but again, just get through the setup and you're home free.
> 
> and i made the mistake of building my pc's from scratch. after paying for all the separate parts and new Win7 licenses i spent a lot more than i would have if i just got a factory-line pc from a big company. a friend of mine just found a floor model laptop for $350 at best buy that has everything you'd need to get going.
> 
> ...


I might look a little more into the HTPC route also. I have a fairly extensive library of ripped DVDs (from my own collection) on my HDD, which I use pytivo to get to my tivo. It works pretty well for me, but if it is HD, the transfer time is slower than real time. I could use an extender in the livingroom to do this with better results.

I wonder, if I popped a tv tuner in my Windows 7 PC, is there some way you can access that through say, an xbox 360, and something like playon?
Just thinking it would be cool if I could have the PC in my home office, and just have some sort of extender in the livingroom and still have all the functionality.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

adessmith said:


> ...
> 
> I'm sure not everyone feels this way, but it makes me wonder how long the Tivo Premiere will be on the market before they screw those early adpoters just like they did with the Series 3, and the HDXL.....


not sure how you figure early adopters of the tivo series 3 PLATFORM where screwed. The HDXL was just a hardware refresh of a years old platform. The early adopters of the S3 have had those boxes for 3+ years.

the S2 platform is way way older than that and until the past year or 2 it's gotten everything that the platform could handle- even the old ATTivo has that was a series 2 before they admitted series 2 existed has gotten the goods.

Anyway- for some I'm sure the moxi is a perfect choice. For others the tivo (with or without lifetime) is better. To each his own. In my humble opinion it's not clear cut for 100% of the users that either vendor is best.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

adessmith said:


> I wonder, if I popped a tv tuner in my Windows 7 PC, is there some way you can access that through say, an xbox 360, and something like playon?
> Just thinking it would be cool if I could have the PC in my home office, and just have some sort of extender in the livingroom and still have all the functionality.


it seems like the best way to use an "extender" would be to just get an additional PC. i think xbox is pretty glitchy with certain video files (like bluray rips) and i'm not sure it will be compatible with the new CC tuners coming out. there aren't any new extenders on the horizon either.


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## travisc77 (May 26, 2005)

I'm a big Tivo fan... two S3's, HD, and two SD-H400's on Basic. The S4 looks nice and has some potential but nothing compelling for now. But the one thing that puzzles me, and bothers me is that they can add Bluetooth internally but not wireless N?

To me that's pretty lame for 2010. What doesn't come with internal wireless anymore? Hell, phones, clock radios, GPS devices, picture frames and almost everything has wireless built-in. Obviously they should continue to make the external, but come on Tivo? Do you need to extract another fifty bills?

Still love Tivo, just irritating...


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

radams said:


> it seems like the best way to use an "extender" would be to just get an additional PC. i think xbox is pretty glitchy with certain video files (like bluray rips) and i'm not sure it will be compatible with the new CC tuners coming out. there aren't any new extenders on the horizon either.


Actually, the xbox 360 is a pretty good choice for an extender.

Whether to use a second PC vs. a 360 as an extender comes down to 2 things in my mind:

1. Do you have to worry about CCI byte issues (i.e. copy once) from your provider? If so, then the extender (xbox 360) approach is the best route at this time. Since the extenders essentially are playing back video on the PC, you can view programs recorded with copy once on remote TVs via an extender, but you can't with a second PC since the program will be encrypted and tied to the PC that recorded it. There is no solution to use a second PC as an "extender" currently.

2. Price. You can get an XBOX 360 that will handle extender duties for well under $200... a price you can't match for a second PC.

Myself, I don't have to worry about #1, and #2 is not that big a deal to me for a second TV (if I had 4 or 5 TVs I wanted to extend to, then certainly XBOX 360s would be a part of the solution for at least some of the secondary PCs).


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

travisc77 said:


> I'm a big Tivo fan... two S3's, HD, and two SD-H400's on Basic. The S4 looks nice and has some potential but nothing compelling for now. But the one thing that puzzles me, and bothers me is that they can add Bluetooth internally but not wireless N?
> 
> To me that's pretty lame for 2010. What doesn't come with internal wireless anymore? Hell, phones, clock radios, GPS devices, picture frames and almost everything has wireless built-in. Obviously they should continue to make the external, but come on Tivo? Do you need to extract another fifty bills?
> 
> Still love Tivo, just irritating...


Bluetooth isn't internal... it uses a usb dongle.


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## travisc77 (May 26, 2005)

turbobozz said:


> Bluetooth isn't internal... it uses a usb dongle.


Even more lame..... Doesn't Broadcom or TI makes this combo chip pretty cheap?


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

wombat94 said:


> I'm still coming up to speed on it myself... baby steps as I get ready for the release of the Ceton cablecard quad tuner card.
> 
> The two places that I've found the most help and assistance are thegreenbutton.com (Media Center forums) and
> 
> ...


I am going to do some research. I am certainly buying into the idea, especially with all those $199 "net client" PCs around now that seem to be strong enough to do the work on that side.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

wombat94 said:


> Actually, the xbox 360 is a pretty good choice for an extender.
> 
> Whether to use a second PC vs. a 360 as an extender comes down to 2 things in my mind:
> 
> ...


Quick question, and not to hijack the thread and make it a "move to htpc" topic--- are 360's overly loud? In my theater room, I had to take my PS3 apart and install a new whisper fan just to make it usable.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

wombat94 said:


> Actually, the xbox 360 is a pretty good choice for an extender.


can it play mkv files or other uncompressed bluray rip formats?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

travisc77 said:


> Even more lame..... Doesn't Broadcom or TI makes this combo chip pretty cheap?


Broadcom at least does. My $10 USB Bluetooth Dongle is Broadcom based.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

larrs said:


> Quick question, and not to hijack the thread and make it a "move to htpc" topic--- are 360's overly loud? In my theater room, I had to take my PS3 apart and install a new whisper fan just to make it usable.


360's are in general a little louder than PS3's.
The optical drive in some 360's are noticeably louder than the fans.


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

adessmith said:


> I might look a little more into the HTPC route also. I have a fairly extensive library of ripped DVDs (from my own collection) on my HDD, which I use pytivo to get to my tivo. It works pretty well for me, but if it is HD, the transfer time is slower than real time. I could use an extender in the livingroom to do this with better results.
> 
> I wonder, if I popped a tv tuner in my Windows 7 PC, is there some way you can access that through say, an xbox 360, and something like playon?
> Just thinking it would be cool if I could have the PC in my home office, and just have some sort of extender in the livingroom and still have all the functionality.


Xbox 360 is a very good Media Center Extender. It will view live TV, HD, DVD, music, videos, photos, etc. from the main computer. The only detriment that is has is that the fan may be too loud for some people. The Linksys DMA2100 and DMA2200 (with DVD player) also make good extenders and are dead quite (no fan or disk).

I was 100% TiVo until the digital over the air switchover, and the fact that my Series 2 could not record HD OTA, and the latest versions of TiVo will not work with satellite.

I switched the living room setup to a HTPC, and now have 4 tuners (3 OTA, 1 satellite box), can record OTA in HD, view ripped DVD's, view the guide, live TV, schedule recordings, start viewing in one room, finish in another.

I still have a TiVo in the bedroom with about 8 months left. Unless the DirecTiVo deal comes along, I'll probably drop it rather than pay another $99 for another year.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

snedecor said:


> Xbox 360 is a very good Media Center Extender. It will view live TV, HD, DVD, music, videos, photos, etc. from the main computer. The only detriment that is has is that the fan may be too loud for some people. The Linksys DMA2100 and DMA2200 (with DVD player) also make good extenders and are dead quite (no fan or disk).
> 
> I was 100% TiVo until the digital over the air switchover, and the fact that my Series 2 could not record HD OTA, and the latest versions of TiVo will not work with satellite.
> 
> ...


The XB360 (and PS3) are horrible extenders for anything but the most mainstream content. They can't stream many many formats, including most of the HD formats and HD audio.

And IMO, they have the worst interfaces of the HD streamers available (e.g. the Dune and PCH have much better, much more intuitive and familt-friendly interfaces).

Anyway, if you have an XB360 or PS3, it's certainly worth trying them. But anyone serious about streaming (more than just WMC/MCE recorded content) *never* uses them because of their many limitations and horrible UI.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Not sure what you mean by this? The Tivo can't record a show faster than it's being broadcast.


wow...thought it was pretty obvious, but ok...the response speed is what i meant. the act of hitting record and waiting 15 seconds for it to process is unacceptable. i can guarantee this isn't a hardware limitation, but some sort of inefficient algorithm. maybe tivo is clinging on to some sort of legacy programming from way back when, and hasn't invested the resources into re-coding the recording procedure/database structure. either way, it's comically bad.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

radams said:


> wow...thought it was pretty obvious, but ok...the response speed is what i meant. the act of hitting record and waiting 15 seconds for it to process is unacceptable. i can guarantee this isn't a hardware limitation, but some sort of inefficient algorithm. maybe tivo is clinging on to some sort of legacy programming from way back when, and hasn't invested the resources into re-coding the recording procedure/database structure. either way, it's comically bad.


I don't find that an issue; so what it takes a moment ... it's hardly a step you should be doing often. And it is doing some processing there on your behalf -- checking what portion of the current buffer needs to be incorporated into the saved recording, for instance, as well as having to do some level of checking of how it might affect scheduled recordings. And it's not like it doesn't start recording till 10-15 seconds after you press record; you'll have everything from the point you hit record and forward, for sure, and usually a lot more.

There are some operations more painfully slow, like rearranging or otherwise manipulating season passes; it would be nice if at least some of that could just be thrown off into a background thread, at least once it gets past any point of potentially requiring a user choice on how to proceed. But even those just aren't done that often to really matter. A bulk delete operation would probably be simple to add and most helpful there.

The repeated interactions are where they should focus effort -- delays when deleting a recording or folder of recordings should be a priority to get rid of; scrolling through lists like the program guide or search screens should be improved. Those are where most people will spend the most time interacting with the TiVo UI.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

dswallow said:


> I don't find that an issue; so what it takes a moment ... it's hardly a step you should be doing often. And it is doing some processing there on your behalf -- checking what portion of the current buffer needs to be incorporated into the saved recording, for instance, as well as having to do some level of checking of how it might affect scheduled recordings. And it's not like it doesn't start recording till 10-15 seconds after you press record; you'll have everything from the point you hit record and forward, for sure, and usually a lot more.
> 
> There are some operations more painfully slow, like rearranging or otherwise manipulating season passes; it would be nice if at least some of that could just be thrown off into a background thread, at least once it gets past any point of potentially requiring a user choice on how to proceed. But even those just aren't done that often to really matter. A bulk delete operation would probably be simple to add and most helpful there.
> 
> The repeated interactions are where they should focus effort -- delays when deleting a recording or folder of recordings should be a priority to get rid of; scrolling through lists like the program guide or search screens should be improved. Those are where most people will spend the most time interacting with the TiVo UI.


+100 on all points...


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

adessmith said:


> Maybe there is some hidden cost I'm not aware of:
> I just dont get your reasoning on this one.
> 
> Upfront Cost for Moxi HD: $499
> ...


Moxi = NO Wireless option. My place isn't and won't be wired. That kills it for me, even with a hub since I don't want that.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

b_scott said:


> Moxi = NO Wireless option. My place isn't and won't be wired. That kills it for me, even with a hub since I don't want that.


Does Moxi have ethernet? If so, here's your wireless option.

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Dual-...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1267726236&sr=8-2


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

aindik said:


> Does Moxi have ethernet? If so, here's your wireless option.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Dual-...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1267726236&sr=8-2


you didn't read my last sentence, apparently..

that's not the only issue I have, but it's one of them. They could make the boxes compatible with any USB wireless adapter if they wanted, but they're not. I want to be able to flip through channels in two rooms, so Moxi mates are useless which puts me at $1K minimum for two boxes. I can get a lot of years out of my current TivoHD's, and even a Premiere is only $239. No lifetime, but $20 a month for two boxes? Not much $$. $240 a year would still take 4 years to catch up to the Moxi price, and by then the next new thing will be out anyway.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

b_scott said:


> you didn't read my last sentence, apparently..


I did. Just didn't know what you meant by "hub."

Can I ask why you don't want to use a $90 ethernet adapter but you are willing to use a $90 USB adapter?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

aindik said:


> I did. Just didn't know what you meant by "hub."
> 
> Can I ask why you don't want to use a $90 ethernet adapter but you are willing to use a $90 USB adapter?


I don't want another thing to plug into the power, since I am trying to have a sleek small footprint mounted on the wall in my new condo's bedroom. More large boxes, power plugs, and ethernet cables are not something I want. I can hide the Tivo's USB adapter (which is not $90 for the G version which I already own) with a 6 inch mini-usb cable and some velcro.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

b_scott said:


> I don't want another thing to plug into the power, since I am trying to have a sleek small footprint mounted on the wall in my new condo's bedroom. More large boxes, power plugs, and ethernet cables are not something I want. I can hide the Tivo's USB adapter (which is not $90 for the G version which I already own) with a 6 inch mini-usb cable and some velcro.


The $90 N version has another power cord.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> The $90 N version has another power cord.


but i'm not buying the N version either way. My G is plenty fast for free.

Tivo should've built in N though.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> but i'm not buying the N version either way. My G is plenty fast for free.
> 
> Tivo should've built in N though.


I'm glad they didn't. I don't want wireless N, and now I don't have to pay for it as part of the cost of the box.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

orangeboy said:


> I'm glad they didn't. I don't want wireless N, and now I don't have to pay for it as part of the cost of the box.


it shouldn't have cost them that much, especially if it was built into the board. I'd pay an extra $20 for it built into every box.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

b_scott said:


> Moxi = NO Wireless option. My place isn't and won't be wired. That kills it for me, even with a hub since I don't want that.


You are correct Moxi does not have built in wireless. I also do not think they officially endorse a wireless connection. Most likely due to quality of service. Can you imagine end users complaining about buffer times, slow response, etc. However, some members of using N and was success connecting a Moxi to a Moxi Mate

There are good reasons for not recommending/endorsing wireless.. There is lag and speed issues even with the N version. For a pain free streaming, it is better off if you are using a ethernet cable. If you do not have ethernet in your house, you can always do MoCA. That allows enough bandwidth for HD streaming...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

b_scott said:


> it shouldn't have cost them that much, especially if it was built into the board. I'd pay an extra $20 for it built into every box.


laughing- I'd pay an extra 20 bucks for my favorite hardware feature built into every box too even though a good portion of the rest of you wouldn't want it.

The thing is tivo doesn't want to pay the 3 dollars extra for the chip so they can try to at least break even at the 199 price point they think the thing needs to be at in a year. That's why they put only a 320gig drive in it. that's why there's no bluetooth chip either. No text display on the front like the S3. So s-video. Only one cablecard slot. And on and on and on.

what is kind of a bummer is that they can't even figure out a way to buy a few extra parts for the XL flavor box and just chuck bluetooth, N, a display, and make a 'golden premiere' or whatever. I can only assume the margin on total hardware sales is so bad that they are even weary to create 2 similar motherboards or anything like that.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> what is kind of a bummer is that they can't even figure out a way to buy a few extra parts for the XL flavor box and just chuck bluetooth, N, a display, and make a 'golden premiere' or whatever. I can only assume the margin on total hardware sales is so bad that they are even weary to create 2 similar motherboards or anything like that.


One would think that there would at least be some basis in hardware for a unit capable of receiving a THX certification over one that doesn't. And if they're willing to make something on the motherboard optional, then certainly they could have done that for another block of a chip or two.

Of course, it probably turns out that both units are identical and THX-certification just means a logo is slapped on the front of one and not on the other.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> laughing- I'd pay an extra 20 bucks for my favorite hardware feature built into every box too even though a good portion of the rest of you wouldn't want it.
> 
> The thing is tivo doesn't want to pay the 3 dollars extra for the chip so they can try to at least break even at the 199 price point they think the thing needs to be at in a year. That's why they put only a 320gig drive in it. that's why there's no bluetooth chip either. No text display on the front like the S3. So s-video. Only one cablecard slot. And on and on and on.
> 
> what is kind of a bummer is that they can't even figure out a way to buy a few extra parts for the XL flavor box and just chuck bluetooth, N, a display, and make a 'golden premiere' or whatever. I can only assume the margin on total hardware sales is so bad that they are even weary to create 2 similar motherboards or anything like that.


you think it'll be at $199 in year? The TivoHD was still at $249 new a couple months ago. No way it'll be at $199.

The TivoHD never had text on the front, the Series3 was a pipe dream for most of us - $800? please. I don't need another set of bright text and lights in my console center. And it never even affected me since I didn't buy the S3. You only need one cablecard slot, M-Cards actually cost you less since you only have to rent one card. The reason they only put in a 320 is so they could make a 1TB version to make it seem like a huge upgrade so people would buy the bigger version. Who cares about no S-Video? Technically the yellow output is S-Video composite, just without the luminence. And this is a box for people who want HD, otherwise why buy it? You don't use S-Video on HDTV's.

I still can't imagine how there could be many people who don't want wireless built in - considering most people here probably have more than one box and only one router in their house.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the QWERTY bluetooth?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

b_scott said:


> you think it'll be at $199 in year? The TivoHD was still at $249 new a couple months ago. No way it'll be at $199.
> 
> The TivoHD never had text on the front, the Series3 was a pipe dream for most of us - $800? please. I don't need another set of bright text and lights in my console center. And it never even affected me since I didn't buy the S3. You only need one cablecard slot, M-Cards actually cost you less since you only have to rent one card. The reason they only put in a 320 is so they could make a 1TB version to make it seem like a huge upgrade so people would buy the bigger version. Who cares about no S-Video? Technically the yellow output is S-Video composite, just without the luminence. And this is a box for people who want HD, otherwise why buy it? You don't use S-Video on HDTV's.
> 
> ...


1) By now, they could have but a 2TB in the XL for the same price as the 1TB when the old XL was introduced.

2) I think most people who are the core Tivo users don't use wireless. We all have hardwired houses, most of us likely GBit. A better point is that the new target market for Tivo likely all need wireless, as they have maybe one computer directly plugged into their cable modem.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I would never use wireless for devices that are plugged in to the wall for power. No point, and wireless is anything but reliable, consistent and fast. There are two things on wireless in my house: my iPhone and my laptop.

4 TiVo's, 4 PC's, an iMac, a PS3, 2 HD-DVD players, a network media player, an HDHomeRun, SlingBoxes, and I'm sure some other stuff I'm forgetting are all wired; all to a 24-port GB switch.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> what is kind of a bummer is that they can't even figure out a way to buy a few extra parts for the XL flavor box and just chuck bluetooth, N, a display, and make a 'golden premiere' or whatever. I can only assume the margin on total hardware sales is so bad that they are even weary to create 2 similar motherboards or anything like that.


What margin on hardware sales? Their cost of building the TiVos averages 30% MORE than they get, and it has been for years (well, it was much higher loss for a couple of years when they were giving the S2 boxes away).


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

dswallow said:


> ...
> 
> Of course, it probably turns out that both units are identical and THX-certification just means a logo is slapped on the front of one and not on the other.


my vote


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

b_scott said:


> you think it'll be at $199 in year? The TivoHD was still at $249 new a couple months ago. No way it'll be at $199.


sorry I'm not that up on it. So maybe they need to break even at 249. (and curious- was it $249 everywhere or could you find it closer to 199 on amazon and the like?)



b_scott said:


> The TivoHD never had text on the front, the Series3 was a pipe dream for most of us - $800? please. I don't need another set of bright text and lights in my console center. And it never even affected me since I didn't buy the S3. You only need one cablecard slot, M-Cards actually cost you less since you only have to rent one card. The reason they only put in a 320 is so they could make a 1TB version to make it seem like a huge upgrade so people would buy the bigger version. Who cares about no S-Video? Technically the yellow output is S-Video composite, just without the luminence. And this is a box for people who want HD, otherwise why buy it? You don't use S-Video on HDTV's.


I have pretty much zero need for much of that- but my point is there's subset that want it- so let them have it in the super magic box because it's only another 17 dollars in parts total.



b_scott said:


> I still can't imagine how there could be many people who don't want wireless built in - considering most people here probably have more than one box and only one router in their house.


I have zero use for it- have ethernet at all my TV's. Others might prefer moca dongles. Still others might have a wireless bridge at their tv that connects to a switch that connected their wii, xbox, ps3, blueray player, tv, and tivo to the internet. Please correct me if I'm wrong but moxi that supports streaming doesn't officially support wireless- even n- so i'm not sure even with N if that's a realistic soultion for tivo to implement streaming throughout the house between a few boxes. maybe 802.11 x, y, or Z will provide wirelss gigabit speeds.... so n in the box will be 'slow' in a few yeas. So some dont see a huge need for wireless built in.



b_scott said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the QWERTY bluetooth?


yep but apparently there's no bluetooth on board- the remote comes with a dongle.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> What margin on hardware sales? Their cost of building the TiVos averages 30% MORE than they get, and it has been for years (well, it was much higher loss for a couple of years when they were giving the S2 boxes away).


bad choice of words- sorry- I KNOW they take a bath on sales. But big picture I was just wondering out loud if maybe they couldn't sell a bunch more super boxes if they just bothered so stock a second motherboard that happened to have a few more chips actually soldered to the board (use the same traces just dont populate them on the cheap box). My leaning is they could make more profit on the super box to try and offset some of the new loss on all hardware.


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