# Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Automatic for the People" 09-15-08 *spoilers



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Bah. Stupid. It reminded of the old Incredible Hulk with the way they could get around past security in the Nuclear plant. And once again John does something completely inexplicable.

Why are they still in Los Angeles, what with all the trouble there? Shouldn't they be heading to Canada or something?


----------



## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

What was the point of the scene at the end? Other warnings from the future? Did people travel back further in time than they meant to, and so had to leave warnings in a place where the resistance in the future knew they'd be staying? And the previous inhabitants of the house didn't notice them?

We're obviously meant to think Riley is a terminator too, but she's got to be some kind of more advanced model resistant to a probe of Cameron, assuming this is not all a red herring. Maybe she's a TS-300.

Who wants to bet how long until the 'say the date on the phone' seed they planted will pay off?


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

John's a "troubled teen." No friends. He's latching on to somebody somewhat normal. Riley spent the night. On the floor. John just accepts it as normal. That is odd, but John's behavior isn't that odd. I had a girlfriend that looked a lot like Riley and probably behaved oddly sometimes too.

I liked the episode. Not a whole lot of John, not much BAG, and lots of Sarah and Summernator. I'm growing more curious as to how Cameron's odd behavior is going to evolve as the season progresses.

In the end... No meltdown. No permanent reactor shutdown. Option 3. SkyNet Wins.

When was this episode supposed to take place? I thought I heard Sarah/BAG say 16 Nov, twenty oh seven. But I thought Sarah was supposed to die in 2005. I am confused about the timeline.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

I personally though this episode was better then the premiere. Each his own I guess.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

justen_m said:


> When was this episode supposed to take place? I thought I heard Sarah/BAG say 16 Nov, twenty oh seven. But I thought Sarah was supposed to die in 2005. I am confused about the timeline.


She originally died in 2005, but that was before they jumped 10 years into the future. Now, all bets are off as to how/when Sarah dies.

That's the thing that didn't make sense with Sarah questioning Cameron about her own death. In Cameron's memory, Sarah died in 2005, so why would she think Cameron would know if she contracted cancer at a nuclear power plant in 2007?


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Who are the people that John will make upset by doing what he wants? The T-1001 CEO company people? The phone company? If not BAG/Sarah/Summernator, who?

I did get the 'I'm a terminator" vibe from the girlfriend but we already have one terminator pretending to be human so as to destroy all humans. Would they have another one? 

What model terminator with a metal endoskeleton (i.e., not a T-1000) can create a copy of a living person so quickly?


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

getbak said:


> She originally died in 2005, but that was before they jumped 10 years into the future. Now, all bets are off as to how/when Sarah dies.
> 
> That's the thing that didn't make sense with Sarah questioning Cameron about her own death. In Cameron's memory, Sarah died in 2005, so why would she think Cameron would know if she contracted cancer at a nuclear power plant in 2007?


The writers know that many viewers aren't going to figure that all out on their own. So they had Sarah ask Cameron on their behalf. Cameron's answers of "I don't know" is just the writers making it clear that "all bets are off"


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mars Rocket said:


> Why are they still in Los Angeles, what with all the trouble there? Shouldn't they be heading to Canada or something?


Because that's where Skynet happens?


Sirius Black said:


> Who are the people that John will make upset by doing what he wants? The T-1001 CEO company people? The phone company? If not BAG/Sarah/Summernator, who?


I just assumed it was the Resistance. That was the vibe I got, anyway...that as long as he plays ball only Skynet will be out to get him, but if he goes off the reservation, everybody will want him dead.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Summernator in a leopard print bustier = yum

It will be interesting to see how Cameron's personality develops as she no longer relies on her base or modified programming which she over-rode in the last episode. She is showing some passive-aggressive teenage tendencies at the moment as shown by the nuclear plant scene where she says "I'm thinking about what to do".


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> Who are the people that John will make upset by doing what he wants? The T-1001 CEO company people? The phone company? If not BAG/Sarah/Summernator, who?


...or are they being watched by people from the future now?



Sirius Black said:


> did get the 'I'm a terminator" vibe from the girlfriend but we already have one terminator pretending to be human so as to destroy all humans. Would they have another one?


I really don't think the girlfriend is a Terminator. She was alone with John enough times to "take him out" in ways he would prefer not to be, I'm sure.

If it's the T-1001 in disguise, then perhaps the 10 year jump made John no longer that important in the future and she's doing recon of the whole group now?



Sirius Black said:


> What model terminator with a metal endoskeleton (i.e., not a T-1000) can create a copy of a living person so quickly?


This really kind of bugged me too. I kept thinking the guy was the CEO/Garbage Lady T-1001 pretending to be him. When I saw that it was an endoskeleton model, I was unable to justify how that was possible based on what we know. Unless in the future they found a picture of the guy and grew the face and skin (minus the scar) to look like him. Seems odd that they would go through all of THAT trouble vs. just having the CEO/Garbage Lady T-1001 do the job.

Also, Summernator put the dismantled Terminator in a nuclear waste can? Was it otherwise empty, or is the nuclear waste going to dissolve it? Or are they just hoping that the rads coming off of it will just keep people away if anyone were to stumble upon on by accident?


----------



## Bardman (Aug 26, 2002)

Ment said:


> Summernator in a leopard print bustier = yum


Bent over a pool table = double yum!!

Anyone notice her smirk as she was counting the money she won from the game?

I think her line in the Nuclear plant "I'm thinking what to do" is going to prove to be foreshadowing. Perhaps her chip "malfunction" will allow her to evolve faster than before and develop emotions and a conscience.


----------



## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

atrac said:


> Also, Summernator put the dismantled Terminator in a nuclear waste can? Was it otherwise empty, or is the nuclear waste going to dissolve it? Or are they just hoping that the rads coming off of it will just keep people away if anyone were to stumble upon on by accident?


I was wondering that same thing. My guess is that they feel no one will open the can because of the label on the outside. But what happens when someone moves the can and instead of sloshing sounds...there's a metallic sound of the terminator bones a movin' around?

It's kinda like the question of how many licks to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Mars Rocket said:


> Bah. Stupid. It reminded of the old Incredible Hulk with the way they could get around past security in the Nuclear plant.


That was my comment to the SO, "Are they recycling old Incredible Hulk plots."?


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

ok, stupid brain fart time......

What is the point of the "say the date when you call on the phone thing"? Is it so John can be sure he hasn't transported forward or back in time?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jlb said:


> ok, stupid brain fart time......
> 
> What is the point of the "say the date when you call on the phone thing"? Is it so John can be sure he hasn't transported forward or back in time?


I don't think they explained, but it might be to show it's the real person and not a Terminator impersonating them...


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Oh, that would make sense, as a terminator would not know that something was said to the person that was replicated/impersonated. But if Riley were a terminator...................

Or, what if there is a new type (unless there is already one in the lexicon somewhere) of terminator that when replicating a human, they alsop replicate their memories............


Also, did anyone else say during this episode, Penny Widmore certainly continues to get around.........  We saw her before this episode, right?

I also second the "hubba hubba" when Cameron was on the bar playing pool!!!!!!


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

jschuur said:


> What was the point of the scene at the end? Other warnings from the future? Did people travel back further in time than they meant to, and so had to leave warnings in a place where the resistance in the future knew they'd be staying? And the previous inhabitants of the house didn't notice them?


I assumed it was messages left by the naked bloody guy from the future that burst in on Sarah; he left them before going to see her because, um, he knew he could only paint out a message in blood *or* tell her in person before he died, and it seemed like the right thing to do. Actually I think Sarah & Co. weren't home when he arrived so he wrote out his message, then she comes in the front door so he goes in to bleed on her. What was with his chest? Was he shot? I thought he might have brought something from the future embedded in his body and it started coming out during the time travel.

As for staying in LA to battle Skynet - I get that this seems to be their plan now, but seeing as no matter what they do there are indications that Skynet happens anyway, and saving John is a lot harder when there are mucho terminators around, I would think that leaving would be a better plan. If he dies, Skynet probably gets built and the humans lose. If he doesn't die, Skynet still gets built but the humans may not lose.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Mars Rocket said:


> .............and saving John is a lot harder when there are mucho terminators around, I would think that leaving would be a better plan........


I was thinking this too. Would it not make sense for our crew to travel further back in time to a point where there were none or fewer???


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

On a positive/negative note - if the ratings start to fall they can always rejigger the show to be 5-10 years in the future and have John fighting Skynet full time with the human resistance. Kind of like what happened to the War of the Worlds TV show, but without the bizarre writing.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So Cameron's wounds can heal?? Is that new or am I too tired to remember this?



getbak said:


> That's the thing that didn't make sense with Sarah questioning Cameron about her own death. In Cameron's memory, Sarah died in 2005, so why would she think Cameron would know if she contracted cancer at a nuclear power plant in 2007?


I assumed she asked because she is wondering if at some point in "the future" they go back to 2005 and she dies.



Sirius Black said:


> What model terminator with a metal endoskeleton (i.e., not a T-1000) can create a copy of a living person so quickly?


They've already demonstrated the technique to duplicate a living person's look. I don't know what you mean by "so quickly" since we have no way of knowing how long they'd been planning that or working on it.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Sirius Black said:


> What model terminator with a metal endoskeleton (i.e., not a T-1000) can create a copy of a living person so quickly?


Don't forget the whole time travel aspect.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

That's heavy.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

jlb said:


> That's heavy.


There's that word again; "heavy". Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jschuur said:


> What was the point of the scene at the end? Other warnings from the future? Did people travel back further in time than they meant to, and so had to leave warnings in a place where the resistance in the future knew they'd be staying? And the previous inhabitants of the house didn't notice them?


Obviously, resistance fighter who died in the living room wrote them in his own blood earlier.



jschuur said:


> We're obviously meant to think Riley is a terminator too, but she's got to be some kind of more advanced model resistant to a probe of Cameron, assuming this is not all a red herring. Maybe she's a TS-300.
> 
> Who wants to bet how long until the 'say the date on the phone' seed they planted will pay off?


Is it me or did anyone else think she resembled Hayden Panettiere. And was she picked for that resemblance?



atrac said:


> Also, Summernator put the dismantled Terminator in a nuclear waste can? Was it otherwise empty, or is the nuclear waste going to dissolve it? Or are they just hoping that the rads coming off of it will just keep people away if anyone were to stumble upon on by accident?





MegaHertz67 said:


> I was wondering that same thing. My guess is that they feel no one will open the can because of the label on the outside. But what happens when someone moves the can and instead of sloshing sounds...there's a metallic sound of the terminator bones a movin' around?
> 
> It's kinda like the question of how many licks to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know.


If those are nuclear waste containers ready to be shipped out and disposed of, then they would be promptly buried deep in a subterranean vault.
Sounds like a good place to put a dismantled Terminator to me.



TAsunder said:


> So Cameron's wounds can heal?? Is that new or am I too tired to remember this?


Arnie said in T2 that his wounds would eventually heal so it's not new.

I thought that this was an interesting episode but I'm not clear on if John is now going to a new school or returning to the old one.
If it was the old one, what happened to his friend and the other girl?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

ok...few comments:

1. I also took Summernator's comment to mean that helping her would put John in a bad light as a resistance leader (they're supposed to hate and kill all robots)

2. I don't think the new girl is a terminator (friend or foe) but it seems very odd that she spent the night with him...maybe his GF back from the future coming to help him "become a man" so he can be the leader (and be his confidant)...she's hot, btw...I like women with meat on their bones 

3. yes, I agree that the guy wrote all the messages about what they need to do while waiting for them to buy the house...I also think he was shot just as he was traveling in time and the bullet traveled with him and hit him then...

4. John's bedroom was too funny 

5. quite a lot of warnings that Summernator is changing and could turn at any moment...ok...we got it...we get it already...enough! IMO, she's becoming self-aware...


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Anubys said:


> ok...few comments:
> 3. yes, I agree that the guy wrote all the messages about what they need to do while waiting for them to buy the house...I also think he was shot just as he was traveling in time and the bullet traveled with him and hit him then...


I saw *something* come out of his chest when he time traveled at the beginning of the show, my wife clearly saw a bullet. When the show was over we went and re-watched and there is, clearly, a bullet shooting out of his chest. I think we're supposed to get that he was being shot while time traveling....or something.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

hapdrastic said:


> I saw *something* come out of his chest when he time traveled at the beginning of the show, my wife clearly saw a bullet. When the show was over we went and re-watched and there is, clearly, a bullet shooting out of his chest. I think we're supposed to get that he was being shot while time traveling....or something.


bad special effects...his chest was also swollen there to hold the bag with the blood in it (I guess)...looked pretty bad...but the idea -- as I saw it -- was a bullet suspended in time as it materialized, then shot into his chest as time resumes at normal speeds...the chest then explodes a few drops of blood as he puts his hand over it...


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Anubys said:


> bad special effects...his chest was also swollen there to hold the bag with the blood in it (I guess)...looked pretty bad...but the idea -- as I saw it -- was a bullet suspended in time as it materialized, then shot into his chest as time resumes at normal speeds...the chest then explodes a few drops of blood as he puts his hand over it...


That doesn't seem possible based on what we know about metal and time travel.


----------



## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Is it me or did anyone else think she resembled Hayden Panettiere. And was she picked for that resemblance?


She looks a little like the neighbor girl from Swingtown. Although I might be the only person that watches both of these shows!


----------



## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> That doesn't seem possible based on what we know about metal and time travel.


I agree. The only way that makes sense (canon wise) is that the bullet was inside his flesh when he travelled, and exited afterwards. But the effect did not show that clearly (IMHO).


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

mrmike said:


> I agree. The only way that makes sense (canon wise) is that the bullet was inside his flesh when he travelled, and exited afterwards. But the effect did not show that clearly (IMHO).


yep...I also agree that it doesn't make sense...but in my opinion, it is what they tried to show us...


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TAsunder said:


> Anubys said:
> 
> 
> > bad special effects...his chest was also swollen there to hold the bag with the blood in it (I guess)...looked pretty bad...but the idea -- as I saw it -- was a bullet suspended in time as it materialized, then shot into his chest as time resumes at normal speeds...the chest then explodes a few drops of blood as he puts his hand over it...
> ...


As he materializes, the bullet is clearly leaving his chest and travelling away from him, it's an exit wound. The bullet would have entered just before the time travel started and because it was inside the body surrounded by flesh it was able to travel through time with him, and because it was moving, it continued it's path and exited through his chest.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Of course they have blown the whold metal time traveling thing too when the head from cromarte traveled to the future from the vault time machine.


----------



## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Of course they have blown the whold metal time traveling thing too when the head from cromarte traveled to the future from the vault time machine.


Nah, the flesh was torn and got vaporized in transit, but survived long enough to let the metal through. Or something like that.

(Actually, I'd have to rewatch the scene to see if they show him sans flesh after plasma gun and before the poof, but it could almost make sense)


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Who was the actress that played the pregnant girl? She looked kinda familiar.

And good god, is she having triplets?  I haven't seen a chick on TV that fat since Leah Rimini!


----------



## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

busyba said:


> Who was the actress that played the pregnant girl? She looked kinda familiar.
> 
> And good god, is she having triplets?  I haven't seen a chick on TV that fat since Leah Rimini!


Busy Phillips IIRC. She was really pregnant (or at least she recently (Aug) gave birth, so I assume).

eta:


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

she was on Freaks & Geeks


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mrmike said:


> Busy Phillips IIRC.


Ah, okay, now I know why she looked familiar... she was in an episode of "How I Met Your Mother". She was one of two girls that Ted almost had a threesome with.


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

busyba said:


> Ah, okay, now I know why she looked familiar... she was in an episode of "How I Met Your Mother". She was one of two girls that Ted almost had a threesome with.


She was also on ER for a while.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I was not impressed with this episode. I like the subplot with Ellison and Charley and his wife, but I'm not liking the severe swerve into implausibility where Sara and Cameron get jobs at the nuke plant because some guy from the future showed up with just enough life in him to tell them to check it out and oh by the way they get to kill yet another newly introduced Terminator.

Yeah, the whole show is the very definition of implausible, but there's no need for new OMG plot twists like that every week. I can deal with Cameron having teenage-terminator-angst for a while longer, but I hope that settles down as well.

All in all, a weak follow-up to a strong season debut.


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

mrmike said:


> Busy Phillips IIRC. She was really pregnant (or at least she recently (Aug) gave birth, so I assume).


Well, there you have it. LOL I thought it was one of the Dixie Chicks (Natalie Maines to be more precise!).


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

mrmike said:


> I agree. The only way that makes sense (canon wise) is that the bullet was inside his flesh when he travelled, and exited afterwards. But the effect did not show that clearly (IMHO).


To me it *did* clearly show that. It appeared to me the bullet exited his body after he materialized. i.e., the bullet was inside him when he traveled, then when he stopped traveling, the bullet continued on its course and left his body. My impression was that he was shot from behind as he was running from something. The swollen chest was caused by the bullet punching through his body.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jehma said:


> She was also on ER for a while.


ER's still on? I gave up on it years ago.


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Why was the show ostensibly designed around Sarah, anyway? Isn't it really all about John? Even the season opener said as much.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Mars Rocket said:


> Bah. Stupid. It reminded of the old Incredible Hulk with the way they could get around past security in the Nuclear plant. And once again John does something completely inexplicable.
> 
> Why are they still in Los Angeles, what with all the trouble there? Shouldn't they be heading to Canada or something?


If it took place in L.A. Then why does the guy from the future jump into an alley in N.Y.? Don't beleive me? Check out the awning on the Men's clothing store. It has a 212 area code which is N.Y. city not L.A. which has several area codes.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jeeters said:


> To me it *did* clearly show that. It appeared to me the bullet exited his body after he materialized. i.e., the bullet was inside him when he traveled, then when he stopped traveling, the bullet continued on its course and left his body. My impression was that he was shot from behind as he was running from something. The swollen chest was caused by the bullet punching through his body.


well, if that were true, then at least it's plausible cannon-wise...it would STILL be terrible special effects since the exit wound should have been significantly larger than the tiny exit hole and much more stuff would have exited with it (I'm guess there are tiny bullets that do the damage they showed, but why would the machines use stuff that like that?)...

I'm going to watch it again tonight...

Edit: watched in slow motion...I was wrong...the bullet clearly exits from his body, not enter...tiny bullet and still holding its shape!


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It did exit his body. I didn't realize that was in doubt. What I don't get is how. Maybe it was just under the skin and that is close enough? It's confusing, but totally irrelevant.


----------



## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Mars Rocket said:


> Why was the show ostensibly designed around Sarah, anyway? Isn't it really all about John? Even the season opener said as much.


Maybe it's a big misdirect to make you think she's "safe." Then surprise! They'll kill her off and just rename the series "The Conner Family." (Reese Family?)


----------



## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

GadgetFreak said:


> She looks a little like the neighbor girl from Swingtown. Although I might be the only person that watches both of these shows!


I actually got more of a young Juliette Lewis vibe from her myself.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

alpacaboy said:


> Maybe it's a big misdirect to make you think she's "safe." Then surprise! They'll kill her off and just rename  the series "The Conner Family." (Reese Family?)


FYP


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> If it took place in L.A. Then why does the guy from the future jump into an alley in N.Y.? Don't beleive me? Check out the awning on the Men's clothing store. It has a 212 area code which is N.Y. city not L.A. which has several area codes.


Because they shot that scene on the New York Street section of the 20th Century Fox backlot?


(I've walked through it before as it's right next to the admin building.)


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Busy Phillips is 29. Really pushing it to play a 17 year old.

And again, what's with the blood message?


----------



## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> Busy Phillips is 29. Really pushing it to play a 17 year old.


She played the pregnant land lady. Not John's new girl friend.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

JYoung said:


> Because they shot that scene on the New York Street section of the 20th Century Fox backlot?
> 
> 
> (I've walked through it before as it's right next to the admin building.)


Yeah, but you think they could've either changed the awning or shot from a different angle or fix it in post via CGI not a big deal to change a 212 to 310 or something else.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Craigbob said:


> Yeah, but you think they could've either changed the awning or shot from a different angle or fix it in post via CGI not a big deal to change a 212 to 310 or something else.


I deleted my copy already, so I can't check, but was it really 212? The 213 area code is smack dab tall building downtown LA.

--Carlos V.


----------



## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

I think (feel) that the T-1000 might have it's own agenda (mission) that's independent of the other terminators. Only 2 episodes so far but no interaction between the T-1000 or any of the other terminators (on screen). 

Also, I rewatched the first episode of the season and at the end they showed a few clips of future episodes. In one it looked like the T-1000 was talking to that FBI agent that was left alive. The T-1000 was telling him he was going to find "another one" for her. I took it to mean another terminator. Which would imply that the T-1000 isn't in communication or control of the other terminators. 

Just speculation on my part.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> I deleted my copy already, so I can't check, but was it really 212? The 213 area code is smack dab tall building downtown LA.
> 
> --Carlos V.


Yep. It's 212. I did a freeze frame when I saw that to verify.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> bad special effects...his chest was also swollen there to hold the bag with the blood in it (I guess)...looked pretty bad...


Yeah, seriously poor. They didn't even bother to put makeup over it to match the color more closely with his real skin. It was so obvious it was distracting, and I rarely notice things like that.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

busy was in Love Inc, a show which im sure you all watched regularly


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

John's new girlfriend looked about 30.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

hapdrastic said:


> I saw *something* come out of his chest when he time traveled at the beginning of the show, my wife clearly saw a bullet. When the show was over we went and re-watched and there is, clearly, a bullet shooting out of his chest. I think we're supposed to get that he was being shot while time traveling....or something.


Maybe he was traveling with citrus?

I think the first two episodes this season were both pretty strong. I did have issues with the ease of their entry and employment at the facility, and how free they were to move about inside it. There were lots of nice touches, like adding what were presumably the video security camera tapes to the waste barrel. There wasn't any exposition to explain that's what they were, but nor did there need to be.

I didn't get the "she's a terminator" vibe from the new girlfriend, but I suppose it could be true. It would explain her use of the odd "apples and carrots" comment, I guess, and would explain why time was spent establishing that (1) there's a specific way to call John on his cell phone and (2) that she knows and remembers how to do it, because she tested it out. We were definitely being shown Checkhov's Gun there.


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Mars Rocket said:


> I assumed it was messages left by the naked bloody guy from the future that burst in on Sarah; he left them before going to see her because, um, he knew he could only paint out a message in blood *or* tell her in person before he died, and it seemed like the right thing to do. Actually I think Sarah & Co. weren't home when he arrived so he wrote out his message, then she comes in the front door so he goes in to bleed on her.


+1 This is my theory on the matter. Maybe he just had an address, and had to wait for them. Heck, he could have been there a day early, and spent the time bleeding out slowly in that little room, waiting for them to show up... although that scenario wouldn't say much for their observation skills when securing a new hideout 



Mars Rocket said:


> On a positive/negative note - if the ratings start to fall they can always rejigger the show to be 5-10 years in the future and have John fighting Skynet full time with the human resistance. Kind of like what happened to the War of the Worlds TV show, but without the bizarre writing.


Nah, that's what the next movie is about...



Jeeters said:


> To me it *did* clearly show that. It appeared to me the bullet exited his body after he materialized. i.e., the bullet was inside him when he traveled, then when he stopped traveling, the bullet continued on its course and left his body. My impression was that he was shot from behind as he was running from something. The swollen chest was caused by the bullet punching through his body.


To me it was just as clearly the opposite: the bullet was hanging in mid-air as he materialized, then shot through him. But I didn't slow-mo it, so I'll have to defer to those who did... Certainly makes more sense your way.



Mars Rocket said:


> Why was the show ostensibly designed around Sarah, anyway? Isn't it really all about John? Even the season opener said as much.


Probably to try to appeal to a broader audience (women) by emphasizing the "maternal" factor...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

my theory is this girl is from the future sent back to help him mature into a man (not just sex)...he clearly needs a confidant other than his mother...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dcheesi said:


> Probably to try to appeal to a broader audience (women) by emphasizing the "maternal" factor...


And more simply probably because she's the central character in the first two movies (aside from AH-nold). Are they going to name the series after the hot babe geeks everywhere crush on, or the whiny brat?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were fantasizing about getting Linda Hamilton when they first conceived the series.


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And more simply probably because she's the central character in the first two movies (aside from AH-nold). Are they going to name the series after the hot babe geeks everywhere crush on, or the whiny brat?
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if they were fantasizing about getting Linda Hamilton when they first conceived the series.


That reminds me: did anyone else think that the EMT's new wife looked a _lot_ like Linda Hamilton?!

(In fact, I wonder if she was a finalist for the part of Sarah, and they gave her that bit part as sort of a belated consolation prize?)


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dcheesi said:


> That reminds me: did anyone else think that the EMT's new wife looked a _lot_ like Linda Hamilton?!


not a joke...I really didn't look at her face...her behind looked awesome in that blue dress, I can verify that part...


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

danterner said:


> Maybe he was traveling with citrus?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> That reminds me: did anyone else think that the EMT's new wife looked a _lot_ like Linda Hamilton?!
> 
> (In fact, I wonder if she was a finalist for the part of Sarah, and they gave her that bit part as sort of a belated consolation prize?)


Yeah, she kinda does, now that I think about it. Mostly though she looks like Penny from "Lost".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, she kinda does, now that I think about it. Mostly though she looks like Penny from "Lost".


No, I think she looks more like Linda Hamilton.


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, she kinda does, now that I think about it. Mostly though she looks like Penny from "Lost".


Ahh, I didn't realize she was from another show. I gave up on Lost a couple of seasons ago...


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Anubys said:


> not a joke...I really didn't look at her face...her behind looked awesome in that blue dress, I can verify that part...


Well actress Sonya Walger does have a rockin' bod. I put forth her performance in the HBO series Tell Me You Love Me as evidence.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> Ahh, I didn't realize she was from another show. I gave up on Lost a couple of seasons ago...


Dude, you're missing the best part! Seriously, last season was awesome. Next season starts in January, do yourself a favor and catch up.


----------



## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

Anubys said:


> not a joke...I really didn't look at her face...her behind looked awesome in that blue dress, I can verify that part...


God yes. 

J


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I posted this in the season premier thread by mistake

according the Washington Post, the show has done really bad numbers for the first ep and even worse ratings for this one...something like 5.6 million viewers (don't quote me on the numbers)...I'm afraid this show is not long for this world


----------



## MirclMax (Jul 12, 2000)

jwjody said:


> God yes.
> 
> J


TTIUWP


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I posted this in the season premier thread by mistake
> 
> according the Washington Post, the show has done really bad numbers for the first ep and even worse ratings for this one...something like 5.6 million viewers (don't quote me on the numbers)...I'm afraid this show is not long for this world


Well, it's well-done, entertaining sci-fi... I didn't even expect it to last a season. Anything from here on is gravy.

I can't think of a lot more sci-fi shows besides "Lost" and "X-Files" that have done well in a major network prime time slot.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I posted this in the season premier thread by mistake
> 
> according the Washington Post, the show has done really bad numbers for the first ep and even worse ratings for this one...something like 5.6 million viewers (don't quote me on the numbers)...I'm afraid this show is not long for this world


Bummer! I have plenty of gripes and nits to pick, but it's still in my Top 4.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

would 5.6mil viewers be a smash hit for most networks or not?


----------



## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

Maybe I'm too much in "the world is gonna end" mode...but isn't that what the story is wrapped around? 

If that is the case, why on Earth would Sarah actually tell John to go to school?! 

I know the reason in the script...but this is just dumb. It makes it hard for me to watch the rest of the episode when something this DUMB is in the story. 

It would be much more exciting if each episode were hectic, running from Terminators, etc., flash forwards to future stuff, and acting like you are actually worried someone is trying to KILL JOHN CONNER!! 

Didn't a terminator/teacher try once already to kill him in the pilot? Wouldn't that be enough to figure out you aren't gonna get "normal????"

Bah! I watch only for seeing cool robot killers now.


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

pjenkins said:


> would 5.6mil viewers be a smash hit for most networks or not?


Not even close. A smash hit would have 15-20 million viewers at least.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Mars Rocket said:


> Not even close. A smash hit would have 15-20 million viewers at least.


hmm, ok. i seem to recall the Sopranos only having like 6mil for an average episode but that was on HBO so maybe the math is different 

what were Battlestar Galatica's #s?


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Alright. Here are my problems with this episode.

1. Getting a job at a nuclear plant is as easy as walking up to the door.

2. Once you get your new job, you can walk around anywhere you please. You can even follow the boss into secure areas and not get caught.

3. If you work as a security guard at a nuke plant, it's a bad idea for you and your buddies to wear your badges while playing pool at the local pub.

4. Clearly you need no credit or down payment to rent/own a fully furnished house.

5. It only took 10 seconds for high voltage and a shower of sparks to completely burn the flesh off of a Terminator. But an being inside an exploding car then followed by a fully involved house fire is not enough to singe Cameron's hair or clothes.

6. Where the hell did Reese and Sarah get the BRAND NEW Dodge truck and a new Jeep?

7. Why does a brand spankin' new nuclear plant use VHS tape to record the security cameras?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pjenkins said:


> hmm, ok. i seem to recall the Sopranos only having like 6mil for an average episode but that was on HBO so maybe the math is different
> 
> what were Battlestar Galatica's #s?


numbers for cable are much different...the penetration of cable is much lower than network and so 5 million is high for HBO, cancel-worthy for network...HBO and cable also pick up more viewers with repeats...

as to the school comment: she wanted him out of the way since it was going to be dangerous...she wants him to survive to be the leader and this mission was too dangerous (she's a mother, after all)...

I don't have a problem with the school angle...you cannot be a good leader if you're not well-rounded and well-schooled...


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Alright. Here are my problems with this episode.
> 
> 1....6.
> 
> 7. Why does a brand spankin' new nuclear plant use VHS tape to record the security cameras?


All good questions. As for #7, I just recently read a Hurricane Ike-related news story about a storm chaser that sets up remote cameras to film big storms as they arrive. The article mentions that his camerabox contraptions use a mix of high and low tech, and that they record to VHS tape because for his purposes (given the likelihood of water damage) the old school tape is more resistant to the elements and is the most likely to be salvageable after the storm. Not saying that line of thinking should carry over to a nuclear power plant; just noting that there are some circumstances where VHS tape is still the format of choice, apparently.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> 6. Where the hell did Reese and Sarah get the BRAND NEW Dodge truck and a new Jeep?


From the show's sponsor.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> 4. Clearly you need no credit or down payment to rent/own a fully furnished house.


This really is a much bigger question about the series as a whole. They don't seem to indicate where Sarah and others get the type of money that they have.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> 6. Where the hell did Reese and Sarah get the BRAND NEW Dodge truck and a new Jeep?


The same place the sheriff on Eureka gets his unending stream of brand-new 1997 Jeep Cherokees.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> This really is a much bigger question about the series as a whole. They don't seem to indicate where Sarah and others get the type of money that they have.


Maybe Cameron draws it freehand?


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I don't have a problem with the school angle...you cannot be a good leader if you're not well-rounded and well-schooled...


You also can't be a good leader if you're psychologically scarred from being chased by robots from the future that want to kill you and sometimes masquerade as your teacher. I imagine John has some concentration problems in class. Maybe he's taking Ritalin.


----------



## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> This really is a much bigger question about the series as a whole. They don't seem to indicate where Sarah and others get the type of money that they have.


Well they did have some cash from the safe. And the diamonds. But I think they burned through all of that. Maybe whoever they sent back to build the bank vault also invested heavily in Microsoft.


----------



## DianaMo (Oct 22, 2003)

Are any of the actors from the tv series also in the Terminator movies?


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

DianaMo said:


> Are any of the actors from the tv series also in the Terminator movies?


Doing a common cast and character search on IMDB, I can't find any.


----------



## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Alright. Here are my problems with this episode.


And here's my rationalizations for them: 



> 1. Getting a job at a nuclear plant is as easy as walking up to the door.


Maybe one of them hacked into a placement agency's computers to put their names at the top of the list. They clearly did something to the two people that "called in sick"...



> 2. Once you get your new job, you can walk around anywhere you please. You can even follow the boss into secure areas and not get caught.


That's the beauty of a janitorial job. You have to go everywhere to empty the trashcans/mop the floors. She definitely got caught following the boss into a secure area though, he's just ass enough to punish her with a bogus radiation scrub instead of mere write-up in her permanent file.



> 3. If you work as a security guard at a nuke plant, it's a bad idea for you and your buddies to wear your badges while playing pool at the local pub.


Agreed



> 4. Clearly you need no credit or down payment to rent/own a fully furnished house.


Maybe during the another hacking session like the one where they put their names on the job placement list they gave their cover IDs great credit scores and nice fat bank accounts.



> 5. It only took 10 seconds for high voltage and a shower of sparks to completely burn the flesh off of a Terminator. But an being inside an exploding car then followed by a fully involved house fire is not enough to singe Cameron's hair or clothes.


That was _really_ high voltage though. It must have been at least 10 MegaPlots! 



> 6. Where the hell did Reese and Sarah get the BRAND NEW Dodge truck and a new Jeep?


Same place as the credit for the house. Or more likely they just took them off a dealer's lot...



> 7. Why does a brand spankin' new nuclear plant use VHS tape to record the security cameras?


For the same reason that it can go into catastrophic failure by turning one valve: It was specced and built by the lowest bidder!


----------



## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

Tangent said:


> That was _really_ high voltage though. It must have been at least 10 MegaPlots!


I think it was 1 point twenty-one Giggawatts


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

scsiguy72 said:


> I think it was 1 point twenty-one Giggawatts


From my office:


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> This really is a much bigger question about the series as a whole. They don't seem to indicate where Sarah and others get the type of money that they have.


From the future?


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

mrmike said:


> Well they did have some cash from the safe. And the diamonds. But I think they burned through all of that. Maybe whoever they sent back to build the bank vault also invested heavily in Microsoft.


Didn't Cam win a bunch of money playing pool? I don't think she intended on keeping it to buy an IPOD.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> This really is a much bigger question about the series as a whole. They don't seem to indicate where Sarah and others get the type of money that they have.





mrmike said:


> Well they did have some cash from the safe. And the diamonds. But I think they burned through all of that. Maybe whoever they sent back to build the bank vault also invested heavily in Microsoft.


I forgot about the diamonds. IIRC, they had about 200 grand from the diamonds. That would be enough to buy a few cars and rent a house. If that's where they got the money. Or did they wind up losing it all trying to buy the Turk?



kaszeta said:


> The same place the sheriff on Eureka gets his unending stream of brand-new 1997 Jeep Cherokees.


Good answer!


----------



## sentinelangel (Sep 19, 2008)

There are a couple of reasons to believe that Riley may be a Terminator -- possibly even of the same series as Cameron.

1. The writers made a point of _not_ showing her sleeping, even giving her an excuse for being awake when John wakes up. "Early riser."

2. She makes him a "big, scary robot" -- _to protect him,_ she says. That's what interrogators call "fabricated coincidence." Bring up something the subject knows in a way that will lead them to talk about the related topic -- the topic you want them to talk about. There's a strong possibility with that that she (symbolically) made him a little lego replica of "Uncle Bob."

3. When Cameron walks up to her after Sarah pulls John aside for their talk, Cameron visibly reacts to something she's seeing with an expression that looks remarkably like surprise.

4. The odd figures of speech. "Apples & carrots" for "happy thoughts," for example. It's very plausible to believe that Riley knows the value of human figures of speech for maintaining casual conversation, but doesn't actually have a wide catalogue of them to use -- cleverly (for a machine) she simply _invents_ them, and relies on her knowledge that John has jumped forward a decade to bluff her way through when he doesn't recognize them.

5. Riley: "Parents are freaks."
John: "Yours too, huh?"
Riley: (pause) "Hey... look at the stars!"

Subject change. This makes perfect sense if Riley has no actual frame of reference for her earlier statement about parents, but was only parroting something she heard another student say -- another thing Cameron has been known to do.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sentinelangel said:


> There are a couple of reasons to believe that Riley may be a Terminator -- possibly even of the same series as Cameron.
> 
> 1. The writers made a point of _not_ showing her sleeping, even giving her an excuse for being awake when John wakes up. "Early riser."
> 
> ...


All good points....and first post, too....well done!


----------



## Jeff_in_Bklyn (Apr 26, 2003)

> That's the beauty of a janitorial job. You have to go everywhere to empty the trashcans/mop the floors. She definitely got caught following the boss into a secure area though, he's just ass enough to punish her with a bogus radiation scrub instead of mere write-up in her permanent file.


What got me about this part was when she was sent in by the boss, then ran out, she opened the inner door, then while that door was open she was able to open the outer door!! Letting all the radioactive stuff out!! You would think that there would have been no way to have both doors open at the same time.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

sentinelangel said:


> There are a couple of reasons to believe that Riley may be a Terminator -- possibly even of the same series as Cameron.
> 
> 1. The writers made a point of _not_ showing her sleeping, even giving her an excuse for being awake when John wakes up. "Early riser."
> 
> ...


"That's tight."


----------



## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

Ment said:


> Summernator in a leopard print bustier = yum


Most arousing line in the show: Hi, Im Cindy. Im new in town.



Anubys said:


> 2. I don't think the new girl is a terminator (friend or foe) but it seems very odd that she spent the night with him...maybe his GF back from the future coming to help him "become a man" so he can be the leader (and be his confidant)...she's hot, btw...I like women with meat on their bones


Im taking a wait and see attitude about the girlfriend. Right now, I see no chemistry between them. Her free spirit attitude seems more annoying than anything else so far.



Jeff_in_Bklyn said:


> What got me about this part was when she was sent in by the boss, then ran out, she opened the inner door, then while that door was open she was able to open the outer door!! Letting all the radioactive stuff out!! You would think that there would have been no way to have both doors open at the same time.


There were so many engineering errors in the plot. At least the writers didnt claim that a meltdown would have resulted in the plant physically blowing up.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Jeff_in_Bklyn said:


> ....Letting all the *radioactive stuff* out!!....


 ....and you've been a nuclear engineer how long?


----------



## bluntspoon (Aug 29, 2003)

I was horribly disappointed. Please, please, please let this get better. I thought season one was great and the first episode of season 2 was solid. This was depressing. The whole episode felt poorly written and thought out.


----------



## sentinelangel (Sep 19, 2008)

bluntspoon said:


> I was horribly disappointed. Please, please, please let this get better. I thought season one was great and the first episode of season 2 was solid. This was depressing. The whole episode felt poorly written and thought out.


It was a setup/foreshadowing episode. Normally, these duties are carried out by several small scenes scattered throughout several episodes, but the stunted previous season meant that some of the things we _should_ have seen before now and several things we're intended to see in upcoming episodes had to be planted close together.

Obviously, they couldn't do that in the season premiere, so they got it out of the way as early as they still could.

Looked at, then, for what it was -- it wasn't really _that_ bad. The job had to be done, and it could have been done much less skillfully and gracefully.


----------



## sentinelangel (Sep 19, 2008)

DianaMo said:


> Are any of the actors from the tv series also in the Terminator movies?


No. That would be nice from a viewer/fan's point of view, but think about scheduling -- a television series work day, for actors, is at least 12 hours and usually longer. No way they could have shot the series and the film with the same actors.

And even if they could have, the series writers have plans for the characters. The movie would blow some of those plans. Just think how disappointed all the 'shippers would be if Terminator 4 featured Cameron but not as John's SO -- lost viewers.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

sentinelangel said:


> It was a setup/foreshadowing episode. Normally, these duties are carried out by several small scenes scattered throughout several episodes, but the stunted previous season meant that some of the things we _should_ have seen before now and several things we're intended to see in upcoming episodes had to be planted close together.
> 
> Obviously, they couldn't do that in the season premiere, so they got it out of the way as early as they still could.
> 
> Looked at, then, for what it was -- it wasn't really _that_ bad. The job had to be done, and it could have been done much less skillfully and gracefully.


Interesting theory. Sounds good to me. Hopefully they will get that phase out of the way soon.


----------



## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

sentinelangel said:


> DianaMo said:
> 
> 
> > Are any of the actors from the tv series also in the Terminator movies?
> ...


Would be cool to see a cameo here and there though:up:


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

The new girlfriend was on All My Children for a while. She played an autistic teenager--she's a pretty good actress IMO. If she's not a machine, the making of the big bad robot was really bogus.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

danterner said:


> Maybe he was traveling with citrus?


Agent Garrity! I *knew* I remembered the actor (Paul Schulze -- Greenway) from somewhere recent.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> The new girlfriend was on All My Children for a while. She played an autistic teenager--she's a pretty good actress IMO. If she's not a machine, the making of the big bad robot was really bogus.


I think it may have been that she just made a toy robot and a joke about protecting him, never realizing how it parallels the current situation.

On the other hand, I definitely got several vibes about her being someone from the future. Not necessarily a terminator, although the "carrots and apples" comment really made me wonder.

By the way, wouldn't it be easier for them to go back far-enough in time to introduce a young Miles Dyson (or whoever invents SkyNet in the latest version of events) to Asimov's "I, Robot"?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

wprager said:


> Agent Garrity! I *knew* I remembered the actor (Paul Schulze -- Greenway) from somewhere recent.


He was also in "Rambo".


----------



## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

kaszeta said:


> Doing a common cast and character search on IMDB, I can't find any.


From an interview at IGN with show creator Josh Friedman (beward potential spoilers when visiting the link):


> *IGN TV: Can you talk about not casting Earl Boen as Dr. Silberman?
> *
> *Friedman:* One, he's not really acting anymore. And two, I have at this point avoided any kind of Terminator movie cameo thing  because I just think it's distracting.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

I think that horse is out of the barn. Was it "distracting" when Cameron said "Come with me if you want to live"? All due respect, but I think Mr. Friedman's being a little silly there.


----------

