# 750 gb upgrade kit on sale today at http://www.weaknees.com/



## JoJetSki (Jul 25, 2006)

I was looking to buy a 750 drive and low and behold when I checked the prices today weaknees has them on sale $100 off for the 750. So if your looking to upgrade today is a good day to do it. Price is $399 down from $499.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

750GB DB35 IDE $278.46: http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?p...ACE&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=10-37186118-2
750GB DB35 SATA $281.14: http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3750840SCE


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JoJetSki said:


> I was looking to buy a 750 drive and low and behold when I checked the prices today weaknees has them on sale $100 off for the 750. So if your looking to upgrade today is a good day to do it. Price is $399 down from $499.


Just to clarify, it very much looks like that deal is for the bare Seagate OEM drive (ie: not pre-formatted for TiVo upgrades.) You'd need to format it yourself (which many folks have no problem with, so long as they have access to the appropriate hardware.) It's normally priced at $469.00, not $499... and $399 is still a good deal (although not as good as the one dswallow posted.)

But I wouldn't confuse this with the actual the preformatted TiVo upgrade kit, which ships ready to pop into the S3, and is still priced at $499.

EDIT: I've since learned this is incorrect; see the next post.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Just to clarify, it very much looks like that deal is for the bare Seagate OEM drive (ie: not pre-formatted for TiVo upgrades.) You'd need to format it yourself (which many folks have no problem with, so long as they have access to the appropriate hardware.) It's normally priced at $469.00, not $499... and $399 is still a good deal (although not as good as the one dswallow posted.)
> 
> But I wouldn't confuse this with the actual the preformatted TiVo upgrade kit, which ships ready to pop into the S3, and is still priced at $499.


No, I think this is specifically for the Series3...

DEAL OF THE DAY!
750GB Seagate DB35 SATA
for Series3 TiVo

Cool, Quiet, Plug-and-Play!
Was $499 - Today $399
SAVE $100!

And if you add it to your cart and the one you linked to which definitely includes the Series3 image, they have the same SKU. Plus it does say "Was $499".


```
rs750s325-special 	750GB DB35 Seagate for Series3 TiVo 	$ 399.00
rs750s325 	        TiVo 648250 TiVo Upgrade Kit: Replace with one 750gb hard drive 	$ 499.00
```


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Gotcha. I didn't go so far as to add it to the cart, and the initial description (and Seagate icon) was a bit misleading.

Given this info, it's actually not a bad deal for someone who wants a pre-formatted upgrade. (Only $60 more than your cheaper dealie at thenerds.net.)


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## sunninho (Feb 8, 2007)

Is the one at thenerds also preformatted? The Product Name states DB35.3 Series...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

sunninho said:


> Is the one at thenerds also preformatted?


It is not. And that's actually why I got confused in the first place... I blame dswallow!


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Thanks! I also saved another $10 with Google Checkout. Now I just have to buy to S3 to be upgraded.


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## sunninho (Feb 8, 2007)

Oh man, weaknees is literally my neighbor. They're on my way to work and less than 5 minutes from either work or home. I can walk the S3 in to have them upgrade it and have it back the same day.


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## nyjklein (Aug 8, 2002)

Great deal from Weaknees! I used the $50 gift certificate I got from them when I purchased my first 750GB upgrade drive. So hard to beat $349.

Jeff


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## jltx (Nov 28, 2006)

dswallow said:


> $338.52: http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?p...ACE&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=10-37186118-2


I think the S3 uses a SATA drive, no? This one is old school ATA100.

Update: When I just checked the SATA version it is $281!! I think I'll go for the 500GB for $157 instead.


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## stoneyb (Sep 20, 2006)

The deal is there today (Tues.). I've been waiting for a terabyte drive. How long do you all think it'll be before weaknees has one of those for sale, preformated?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Aren't the Terabyte drives going to be out shortly? Hitachi is supposed to release a 1000GB drive for $399 retail this month or next. Unless it's been delayed, but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Heck of a deal. And I *really* need a larger HD in my S3. Here's my problem...

As I understand it, I swap hard drives. But what about the shows I already have recorded on the existing HD? I never get back to ground zero. If I did, I wouldn't need a larger drive  I have several shows I am saving for various reasons, and it would take a chunk of my life (which doesn't exist) to clear them all out (ie, watch them!).

Ideas?


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## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Heck of a deal. And I *really* need a larger HD in my S3. Here's my problem...
> 
> As I understand it, I swap hard drives. But what about the shows I already have recorded on the existing HD? I never get back to ground zero. If I did, I wouldn't need a larger drive  I have several shows I am saving for various reasons, and it would take a chunk of my life (which doesn't exist) to clear them all out (ie, watch them!).
> 
> Ideas?


Buy another Series 3 and upgrade it. Finish watching what's on the first one then either keep it or sell it.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

astrohip said:


> Heck of a deal. And I *really* need a larger HD in my S3. Here's my problem...
> 
> As I understand it, I swap hard drives. But what about the shows I already have recorded on the existing HD? I never get back to ground zero. If I did, I wouldn't need a larger drive  I have several shows I am saving for various reasons, and it would take a chunk of my life (which doesn't exist) to clear them all out (ie, watch them!).
> 
> Ideas?


That's always been exactly my concern... and why I upgraded my S3 before I "really" started using it.


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## Eskimo Pie (May 17, 2002)

In this case you need the bare drive that you do the formatting yourself and one of the steps is to copy all your saved shows and settings and stuff over to the new drive... looks like it's down to $278 now at thenerds.net.


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## Eskimo Pie (May 17, 2002)

Hmmm, just noticed the 750GB db35 drive at thenerds.net is a PATA drive... don't we need the SATA version for the S3?

Which would be this one correct? Still cheap!
http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3750840SCE


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

_(answering my own post)_
Looking at the WeakKnees site, they offer a service ($79) where they will install your newly purchased drive, AND transfer all settings & shows. That may be what I need. I can get an SA8300HD for a week from TW/Comcast, and use it while the S3 is travelin'. One good thing about cablecos, they generally pro-rate any use of their equipment. And in Houston, they allow you to pick up at the local service centers (inclusing cable cards). So no install/service fees. A week of a DVR would be about $2.

I wouldn't want an SA83000HD to be my primary DVR, but I can live with it for a week. I already have one on the bedroom TV.

Whaddaya thunk?


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## byrne (Dec 24, 2006)

Eskimo Pie said:


> Hmmm, just noticed the 750GB db35 drive at thenerds.net is a PATA drive... don't we need the SATA version for the S3?


You need a SATA drive for the Series3. You need a PATA drive for either Series1 or Series2.


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

O.K., I'm really confused.

So "thenerds.net" HD won't work as its ATA100?

So who has the deal on the 750GB drive that'll work in the Series 3?????


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

JimPa said:


> O.K., I'm really confused.
> 
> So "thenerds.net" HD won't work as its ATA100?
> 
> So who has the deal on the 750GB drive that'll work in the Series 3?????


Look back at my original post, I updated it earlier today to provide pricing on both drive models, SATA and IDE.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Look back at my original post, I updated it earlier today to provide pricing on both drive models, SATA and IDE.


Thanks for that update, dswallow.

And just to fill in any remaining blanks:

IDE=PATA=compatible with Series 1 and 2
SATA=compatible with Series 3

Those drives from thenerds.net are bare OEM drives, no TiVo software installed, so it's more of a "Do It Yourself" project than the pre-configured drive mentioned in the OP.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

FYI - There is no "preformatting" necessary with any drive that will be used in a Tivo. The formatting is done automatically when a backup image is restored using MFSTools. As such, any off-the-shelf IDE or SATA will work in a Tivo, depending on the Tivo model, of course. Weaknees is charging you a hefty premium for something that takes about 10-15 minutes time to perform yourself.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

captain_video said:


> FYI - There is no "preformatting" necessary with any drive that will be used in a Tivo. The formatting is done automatically when a backup image is restored using MFSTools. As such, any off-the-shelf IDE or SATA will work in a Tivo, depending on the Tivo model, of course. Weaknees is charging you a hefty premium for something that takes about 10-15 minutes time to perform yourself.


That's why this deal from Weaknees is significant... it's a far less hefty premium right now than it usually is from them. It's one thing to pay $70 for an image to be preloaded and pre-extended to use the whole drive. Quite another to pay $170 for the same thing.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> FYI - There is no "preformatting" necessary with any drive that will be used in a Tivo. The formatting is done automatically when a backup image is restored using MFSTools. As such, any off-the-shelf IDE or SATA will work in a Tivo, depending on the Tivo model, of course. Weaknees is charging you a hefty premium for something that takes about 10-15 minutes time to perform yourself.


That is, assuming you have a good original TiVo drive to back up from, assuming you have a PC you're free to tinker with, assuming that PC can handle SATA (in the case of a S3 upgrade,) assuming you're interested in doing the reading and the "15 minute" procedure yourself...

I know plenty of folks who don't fall within those circumstances and are happy to pay the premium for a drive that ready to pop right in to the TiVo... with the absolute minimum of work required on their behalf.


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## jpdst22 (Jul 1, 2003)

Can someone clarify something for me? I'm fairly certain if you upgrade the drive by swapping it with another you will also need to have the cable company make a change to your cable cards so that they work (host ID or something). Is this correct? I have no problem upgrading the drive myself, but if I need to have the cable company get involved again I may just keep waiting for E-SATA to get activated since I had such a pain dealing with Comcast getting the cable cards set up the first time.


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

jpdst22 said:


> Can someone clarify something for me? I'm fairly certain if you upgrade the drive by swapping it with another you will also need to have the cable company make a change to your cable cards so that they work (host ID or something). Is this correct? I have no problem upgrading the drive myself, but if I need to have the cable company get involved again I may just keep waiting for E-SATA to get activated since I had such a pain dealing with Comcast getting the cable cards set up the first time.


That must depend on cable head end to cable head end. I can tell you that installing new drives in both of my S3s did not need any intervention from the cable company. (Charter, by the way) Also, one of my S3s just got replaced last week, and I was able to pop out the cablecards from the S3 being replaced and put them into the new S3 unit and had no problems either. This does mean that Charter is probably not locking them to hardware in my area so your mileage may vary.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

astrohip's question keeps getting lost.

Buy the 750 from thenrrds (or from newegg for 299 I think, but that's NON DB35, hence noisy) and self-upgrade, while copying ALL your shows.

The instructions ... they're 'out there'. The copy may take a couple of hours, if that. Clean the drive up first (delete shows you've watched, suggestions, watch a few long ones or those you can easily re-record)


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jpdst22 said:


> Can someone clarify something for me? I'm fairly certain if you upgrade the drive by swapping it with another you will also need to have the cable company make a change to your cable cards so that they work (host ID or something). Is this correct? I have no problem upgrading the drive myself, but if I need to have the cable company get involved again I may just keep waiting for E-SATA to get activated since I had such a pain dealing with Comcast getting the cable cards set up the first time.


In my case (with TimeWarner,) I got a new Series 3 early this year. Got CableCards, tested it, set it up, got some TiVo updates, all was well. Used it for about a week.

Then later I replaced the drive with a 750GB unit (not a backup from my system, a preformatted one from Weaknees.) Reran guided setup, got some TiVo updates, blah blah blah and it worked just fine. No problems whatsoever and no need to call the cable company or TiVo.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Fofer said:


> That's always been exactly my concern... and why I upgraded my S3 before I "really" started using it.


Me, too. Actually, I waited the 90 days until it was out of warranty, then swapped it out. I still wasn't "using" it like I am now


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

captain_video said:


> FYI - There is no "preformatting" necessary with any drive that will be used in a Tivo. The formatting is done automatically when a backup image is restored using MFSTools. As such, any off-the-shelf IDE or SATA will work in a Tivo, depending on the Tivo model, of course. Weaknees is charging you a hefty premium for something that takes about 10-15 minutes time to perform yourself.


But, since I have a Mac, I couldn't do it. Anyhow, I got my pre-formatted drive from WK using a discount coupon, plus a Google discount, plus another discount. So I got the pre-formatted drive last year relatively cheaply ($430 total). And, of course, I do mean "relatively"!


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

So if someone had to reauthorize their S3 when removing their cable cards, is it likely that they would also have to do so if they were to replace their hard drive?


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

It's not terribly difficult to do your own drive upgrade. People that are comfortable with handling PC hardware assume anyone can do it. But, it's far from idiot-proof and preserving your old shows results in a disk copy that can take as much as 8 hours to complete. Also, the S3 introduces new potential for problems by using SATA instead of PATA. Relatively speaking, SATA is still new technology.

Most people don't like the idea of tearing into their PC and TiVo and taking the risk. I can relate to that. A preloaded disk or full upgrade service may be their only option. Personally, I'll just buy a blank disk through one of my frequented online vendors, but for most people, those Weaknees deals are a great opportunity.


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## russwong (Sep 17, 2002)

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4924331

This is the retail box version so positive on the 5 year warranty, sometimes OEM version do not fall under the 5 year warranty, even though people say they do.


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## justinw (Jan 31, 2007)

I don't think the above link is in the DB35 series though.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

JimPa said:


> So if someone had to reauthorize their S3 when removing their cable cards, is it likely that they would also have to do so if they were to replace their hard drive?


If you do the upgrade yourself, all settings are preserved. That's because you're restoring an image from a recent backup or doing a disk to disk copy. The same is true if you use the full Weaknees upgrade service or send your original disk to them for a copy and return. If you use the generic preloaded Weaknees disk, have to run guided setup again and things appear as they did when the TiVo was new.

I believe cablecard activation is independant of the TiVo software. It's firmware/hardware based. The software normally accesses the cards only when it goes to map and decrypt digital channels. So no, the cablecards should not need to be re-activated by the cable service provider after a disk upgrade.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I definitely recommend the 750GB Weaknees upgrade. I paid the original $499 price for it. Very simple to install and it runs very quiet. I received mine the same day I got my Series 3 and immediately installed it before even turning on my S3 (I kept the 250GB as an emergency backup drive if the 750 fails or to perhaps use it with the E-SATA port whenever that becomes active.)


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

George Cifranci said:


> (I kept the 250GB as an emergency backup drive if the 750 fails or to perhaps use it with the E-SATA port whenever that becomes active.)


Hmm. Has there been any indication that when this theoretical feature becomes a reality, that we'll be able to plug in any E-SATA drive, of any make and model? For some reason I was expecting it to be some "official TiVo peripheral."

(That's not to say hackers wouldn't eventually help us bridge that gap so we could create our own compatible replacements, but for some reason I thought the initial E-SATA add-ons would be some sort of proprietary accessory.)


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

It'll likely be any eSATA compatible device. They might 'marry' it to the main drive and even intentionally span shows and render the device useless for 'piracy', but I'd be shocked if they went the 'TiVo authorized peripheral' route.


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## JoJetSki (Jul 25, 2006)

dswallow said:


> 750GB DB35 IDE $278.46: http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?p...ACE&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=10-37186118-2
> 750GB DB35 SATA $281.14: http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3750840SCE


Good Catch on finding these drives cheaper. when I had searched a little while ago I couldn't find the db35 model bare except on the tivo dealer sites who only took off a few bucks for no software. I probably would have gone the bare drive route but oh well, at least I didn't pay $499 for the drive.



stoneyb said:


> The deal is there today (Tues.). I've been waiting for a terabyte drive. How long do you all think it'll be before weaknees has one of those for sale, preformated?


I was waiting for the 1 terabyte drive too but I figured that I would upgrade my current series 3 and when they finaly enable MRV I will buy a second series 3 and get the 1 terabyte (or maybe larger by that time) drive and put it in the new tivo. 90-100 hours of HD content is good enough for me.


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## 68mustang (Mar 7, 2007)

The seagate web page has a 8mb cache version (ST3750840SCE) and a 16mb cache version (ST3750640SCE) of the 750 GB hard drive. Does anyone now if there is a significant performance difference. Quickly checking for prices on the web:the 8 mb version is $281 and the 16 mb version is $480. 

Also there are 2 drives that have product numbers (ST3250820SCE and ST3300820SCE), but no capacity listed. Maybe 1 Tb drives in 8 and 16 mb cache coming soon? 

I wanted to post the seagate web page, but I am not able to post the link because I am a new member.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

68mustang said:


> Also there are 2 drives that have product numbers (ST3250820SCE and ST3300820SCE), but no capacity listed. Maybe 1 Tb drives in 8 and 16 mb cache coming soon? .


The Seagate standard says that these are 3.5" 250 and 300GB parts. ST3 means it's 3.5" and then the next digits are the capacity. I can't remember off the top of my head what the latter parts mean.

.../Ed


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I would think that cache would make little difference to a TiVo since there most video is streamed without significant re-accessing of cached data. Then again, I'm mostly thinking of video data and not OS data.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

So has anyone actually done business with "the nerds"? Their resellerratings info seems spotty at best.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ah30k said:


> I would think that cache would make little difference to a TiVo since there most video is streamed without significant re-accessing of cached data. Then again, I'm mostly thinking of video data and not OS data.


It shouldn't make a difference. i have one 250GB and one 300GB both 5400rpm drives in an HR10-250. they both have 2Mb of cache. The performance is identical to the other HR10-250 I have with 7200 rpm drives and 8MB of cache which is also identical in performance to the HR10-250 that has 16MB cache in it's drives.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I ordered from WeakKnees yesterday and my drive arrived today. Free ground shipping! 

Now I just need the buy the TiVo.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Kablemodem said:


> I ordered from WeakKnees yesterday and my drive arrived today. Free ground shipping! .


It helps that they're based 20-30 minutes from you.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

eric_mcgovern said:


> Does anyone know if the *undocumented Season Pass saving *works on the Series 3?


I'm not familiar with that. Got a link for reference?


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

For an average Tivo guy, is upgrading the hard drive (1) easy to do (2) risky as far as the warantee goes, especially considering i may be able to add a drive in the future without the risk?


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## JoJetSki (Jul 25, 2006)

CraigHB said:


> If you do the upgrade yourself, all settings are preserved. That's because you're restoring an image from a recent backup or doing a disk to disk copy. The same is true if you use the full Weaknees upgrade service or send your original disk to them for a copy and return. If you use the generic preloaded Weaknees disk, have to run guided setup again and things appear as they did when the TiVo was new.
> 
> I believe cablecard activation is independant of the TiVo software. It's firmware/hardware based. The software normally accesses the cards only when it goes to map and decrypt digital channels. So no, the cablecards should not need to be re-activated by the cable service provider after a disk upgrade.


I called Tivo today cuz my lineup was a little messed up. Tech support was extremely fiendly and helped me out.

After that I asked about switching the hard drive and would that effect my cable cards etc. After the obligatory warning that I will void the warranty (After the 3 month warranty there is a 1 year warranty that has a $50 deductable) it shouldn't matter to the cable cards that the hard drive is changed out. According to the Tivo Tech Support no info is written from the cable card to the hard drive which would marry the cards to the hard drive.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

kas25 said:


> For an average Tivo guy, is upgrading the hard drive (1) easy to do (2) risky as far as the warantee goes, especially considering i may be able to add a drive in the future without the risk?


As far as the warranty goes, if you have to send the unit back, just throw the old disk back in (assuming you preserved it). There's no tamper seal on the TiVo and I've never heard of someone being accused.

It's hard to say if upgrading the TiVo hard drive is something anyone can do. If you know what you're doing, it's definitelty not something "hard" to do. I suppose if you feel comfortable moving hard drives in and out of your computer and TiVo, you should be able to handle it. You also need to have some understanding of what you're doing. For example, you should know the difference between a drive on a secondary slave port and one on a primary master port. Otherwise, it's certainly possible to make an error on the command line and accidentaly erase your original drive. There is an element of risk. However, worst case, send your TiVo to Weakness to have it restored if you botch it up. The only real risk is the downtime of the TiVo and the possiblity of losing all your settings/shows.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

eric_mcgovern said:


> I tried searching for a few minutes and couldn't find it...
> 
> Here is what I remember. If your Series 2 was hooked up to broadband, and your privacy settings were marked as "opt-in", TiVo would store a snapshot of your Season Passes on their end. If you replaced the hard drive, within a day or so your Season Passes would just magically reappear. A few people noticed it, and I believe TiVoPony stepped in and said "yep it's an undocumented, unsupported feature, but enjoy". Sure enough when I swapped my HD out a while back in my Series 2, all my Season Passes came right back.


If you use Guru Guides or TivoCasts at least once, you will agree to change your privacy settings. When you do this, your season passes will be stored on the server and downloaded again when you install a new drive.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

jpdst22 said:


> Can someone clarify something for me? I'm fairly certain if you upgrade the drive by swapping it with another you will also need to have the cable company make a change to your cable cards so that they work (host ID or something). Is this correct? I have no problem upgrading the drive myself, but if I need to have the cable company get involved again I may just keep waiting for E-SATA to get activated since I had such a pain dealing with Comcast getting the cable cards set up the first time.


I have Comcast cable cards and didn't even remove them when installing the Weaknees disk. Weaknees provides a good instruction sheet and all the tools you'll need to do the job. About the toughest thing to do is getting one of the screws back in that's in an awkward location. The entire effort to unplug the Series3, take the lid off, replace the disk and plug the Series3 back in was under a half hour. And I'm an old guy with ten thumbs and trifocals.


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

Ordered at $399, free shipping, minus the $50 gift certificate I got when I bought my S3 from Weaknees. Woohoo!

- Chris


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

retired-guy

My objection to trying the hard drive upgrade is that I don't want to have to reauthorize the cards.

In the past, have you ever removed a card(s) and on reinstalling it, have to contact your cable company to get the card(s) reauthorized?


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

Considering that 500GB SATA drives are going for about $140, paying more than twice that for only 50% more capacity doesn't seem like much of a bargain. Throw in the $100-200 premium that Weaknees adds on for about 10-15 minutes' work and you've got a great deal.  I guess if you've got money to burn.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Going from 250 to 750 sounds like 300 percent increase to me, going to 500 sounds like 200 percent, or you could say a hundred percent more. But 50?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JimPa said:


> My objection to trying the hard drive upgrade is that I don't want to have to reauthorize the cards.


It's already been explained in this thread (and others) that reauthorization isn't required after a hard drive upgrade.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

JimPa said:


> retired-guy
> 
> My objection to trying the hard drive upgrade is that I don't want to have to reauthorize the cards.
> 
> In the past, have you ever removed a card(s) and on reinstalling it, have to contact your cable company to get the card(s) reauthorized?


I didn't "reauthorize the cards". I left them in while replacing the disk and they worked fine when I brought the system up. I doubt that removing and replacing the cards would have made any difference with the power off in any case, but I didn't try it--no reason to. When I first got my system four months ago, I did take the cards out and put them back in with power up with no problems, but every situation is different so I don't know that one can always do this.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

visionary said:


> Going from 250 to 750 sounds like 300 percent increase to me, going to 500 sounds like 200 percent, or you could say a hundred percent more. But 50?


Going from 500 to 750, I assume.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> Considering that 500GB SATA drives are going for about $140, paying more than twice that for only 50% more capacity doesn't seem like much of a bargain.


You're looking at this a bit too logically. Some folks (myself included this time around) are okay with paying for the privilege of having the "largest drive available at the time" installed in their TiVo. For many, it's an upgrade they want to do once and only once for the lifetime of their box. And this preformatted 750 GB drive allows us to do it with the minimum of fuss.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

visionary said:


> Going from 250 to 750 sounds like 300 percent increase to me, going to 500 sounds like 200 percent, or you could say a hundred percent more. But 50?


A 100% increase from 250 would be going to 500 (100% of 250 is 250 - an INCREASE of 100% would be an increase of 250 going to 500), so an increase to 750 is a 200% increase. Simple math.


CrispyCritter said:


> Going from 500 to 750, I assume.


That is correct. 50% of 500 is 250 and your adding that to the 500 to make 750. That's a 50% increase.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> You're looking at this a bit too logically. Some folks (myself included this time around) are okay with paying for the privilege of having the "largest drive available at the time" installed in their TiVo. For many, it's an upgrade they want to do once and only once for the lifetime of their box. And this preformatted 750 GB drive allows us to do it with the minimum of fuss.


Yeah, logic tends to prevail most of the time, although common sense has a lot to do with it as well. The logic that escapes me is why some people like to fill up their Tivos with terabytes of recorded programs when one hardware glitch can wipe out everything they've accumulated. I guess it's the old "more is better" train of thought that defies all logic. I like to try and keep up with my recorded shows so when the regular season ends I can start catching up with all of the movies I've backed up from my Blockbuster online account (I get twice the number of titles I used to with NetFlix for the same cost).

Pretty much all stock Tivos have too little storage capacity and are in need of an upgrade. I understand that some people aren't comfortable with performing an upgrade themselves and would prefer to go with a "preformatted" drive from Weaknees or other vendor. The thing is, you still have to open the case and swap out the drives to perform the upgrade. If you can do that then you can certainly perform a backup and restore of a Tivo image to a new drive. The nice part about doing it yourself is that you'll have fun learning to do it on your own. If you screw it up you simply start over since you're only copying software. You won't damage the original drive if you take the same precautions you'd take when swapping out the "preformatted" drives.

The mechanics are the same in both instances with the exception being that you have to boot from a Linux CD and type in a few commands. If that's too much of a challenge then by all means, pay someone else hundreds of dollars to do it for you.  I'm sure Weaknees is grateful that you guys are putting his kids through college. Personally, I'd rather put forth the minimal effort a manual upgrade requires and pocket the savings, but hey, that's just me.  FYI - outpost.com has Seagate 750GB drives for $269.99 with free shipping (not DB35's, however).

By now you probably realize I'm a fervent DIY supporter. I didn't know squat about upgrading a Tivo before I learned the process. The learning curve to perform the backup and restore process is very short and doesn't require a degree in computer science. There are enough step by step guides floating around to guide you through the process so if you can read and type you're already halfway there. Seeing as how you're posting in these forums I'd wager a guess that you have that down cold.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> If that's too much of a challenge then by all means, pay someone else hundreds of dollars to do it for you.


Some folks also don't have a PC with SATA support, and don't want one...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Some folks also don't have a PC with SATA support, and don't want one...


That's readily solved by a $10.50 adapter: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...cs_id=1040701&p_id=2663&seq=1&format=2&style=


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> That's readily solved by a $10.50 adapter: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...cs_id=1040701&p_id=2663&seq=1&format=2&style=


Let me rephrase my post (without editing )

"Some folks also don't have a PC, and don't want one..."


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

dswallow said:


> That's readily solved by a $10.50 adapter: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...cs_id=1040701&p_id=2663&seq=1&format=2&style=


They'd also need two SATA cables - also available at monoPrice for around $2-3 each.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Let me rephrase my post (without editing )
> 
> "Some folks also don't have a PC, and don't want one..."


At least the latest Macs are based on real computers nowadays so this problem will eventually go away completely.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

dswallow said:


> At least the latest Macs are based on real computers nowadays so this problem will eventually go away completely.


Touche'

Real computers with a fluffy UI


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Any PC less than a couple years old is going to have SATA ports. The problem is that not all SATA controllers are supported by the Linux boot CD's available for TiVo upgrades. For Linux, SATA support is not well established like PATA. For older computers or even new ones with PATA ports, a SATA to PATA adapter can be used. They're inexpensive and work pretty reliably, but the whole SATA thing does add a layer of complexity. For some people, paying the premium for a pre-loaded disk is a worthwhile expense. I wouldn't pay it, but that's me. Also, I like to preserve my shows. With a pre-loaded disk, you have to send your disk or TiVo out for that. It's not an off-the-shelf process.

I'm getting by with the stock disk for now. However, I dont' record all that much HD. If that were the case, a disk upgrade would be imprerative. I think a 500GB disk would be big enough for me right now. 750GB disks are too expensive AFAIC. Also, only Seagate is making them and I've read they're noisy suckers. I've always found Western Digital drives to be the most quiet with the best performance.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I don't think I'll need a bigger hard drive until the the fall TV season and hopefully by then $399 will be the regular price.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> At least the latest Macs are based on real computers nowadays so this problem will eventually go away completely.


Try #3:

"Some folks also don't have a _desktop_ PC, and don't want one..."


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Yea, I have both a laptop and desktop PC, but I can totally see where a laptop computer can cover all the bases. The only big advantage of my desktop is that it's easily upgradable and isn't limited as far as high performance hardware goes. Laptops always have power consumption limitations that can preclude parts with big horsepower.

Mac computers don't even enter into the equation. Even though they may be (and probably are) a superior platform, I've never seen a TiVo upgrade Linux boot CD for Mac. There are versions of Linux for Mac and it's certainly possible to make a Linux boot CD for Mac, but a TiVo upgrade CD requires MFS Tools which does not have a Mac version AFAIK. I could be wrong though, I'm not a Mac expert by any stretch.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Try #3:
> 
> "Some folks also don't have a _desktop_ PC, and don't want one..."


The MFS Live CD (http://www.mfslive.org/) supports USB hard drives. You can use a laptop/notebook computer with a USB to IDE or USB to SATA adapter to work with TiVo hard drives.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> The MFS Live CD (http://www.mfslive.org/) supports USB hard drives. You can use a laptop/notebook computer with a USB to IDE or USB to SATA adapter to work with TiVo hard drives.


Bingo, and thanks for that. I (now) know it's all possible, with all sorts of different paths, and the pieces can be pulled together with the right know-how and patience. For the record, I've gone down the DIY path for many, many TiVos and DirecTiVos (for myself and friends.)

This time around I opted to save time (not money) and get a pre-formatted drive from Weaknees. I guess I just disagree with the suggestion that the decision makes me (and other buyers like me) some sort of misinformed sucker. I knew exactly what the tradeoffs were, and was happy that Weaknees saved me time and minor hassle, that's all. And I'm thinking I'd do it again the same way the next time.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Fofer,
I'm with you. In my case I have a computer desk with the CPU stuffed in under the monitor stand. In order to pull out my CPU I need to move my (what seems like) 600 pound 21 CRT, pull off the monitor desktop, slide out the CPU with all of the tangled cables, precariously balance everythin on the desk with the monitor now half-balanced on the side of my desk etc etc etc...

Yes, you can save some bucks doing it yourself, but for me a pre-made disk makes me feel no less a man (er... geek).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Time for a sweet widescreen LCD monitor. They're down in the low 200's now for a 21". I remember getting a 15" CRT monitor 11 years ago for $500 and that was an excellent deal for the set.


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## JoJetSki (Jul 25, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Bingo, and thanks for that. I (now) know it's all possible, with all sorts of different paths, and the pieces can be pulled together with the right know-how and patience. For the record, I've gone down the DIY path for many, many TiVos and DirecTiVos (for myself and friends.)
> 
> This time around I opted to save time (not money) and get a pre-formatted drive from Weaknees. I guess I just disagree with the suggestion that the decision makes me (and other buyers like me) some sort of misinformed sucker. I knew exactly what the tradeoffs were, and was happy that Weaknees saved me time and minor hassle, that's all. And I'm thinking I'd do it again the same way the next time.


I'm in the same boat. I have upgraded my tivos in the past but in this case my time was worth more than money. I can always make more money, but I can't make more time. The whole reason for having the Tivo is to have TV on my time. By having a larger hard drive I get more time and by buying a preformated I gain a little more time. I'd prefer to spend my time with my family. Of course there's nothing wrong with doing the bare drive route to save some money for your family also. To each his own.


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## JoJetSki (Jul 25, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Time for a sweet widescreen LCD monitor. They're down in the low 200's now for a 21". I remember getting a 15" CRT monitor 11 years ago for $500 and that was an excellent deal for the set.


Of course I posted this orignial message which caused lots of people to chime in on how to do it cheaper, so I hesitate to post this link but this is a pretty good deal if your a costco member.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11187193&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

JoJetSki said:


> Of course I posted this orignial message which caused lots of people to chime in on how to do it cheaper, so I hesitate to post this link but this is a pretty good deal if your a costco member.
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11187193&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=


Unimpressive.

For 20 more (considering the free shipping), Dell has an HDCP-compliant 22" widescreen with similar if not better specs. And AFAIR, Dell uses Samsung TFT LCDs (which may have originated at ChiMei - likely the source for X2Gen - making that part moot)

I'd say HDCP compliance is worth $20 more!

Waidaminit - the X2Gen DOES have better specs than the 22" Dell, and a $30 rebate. Not bad!


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

You can buy a used PC on ebay (PII or PIII), complete with case, power supply, motherboard, RAM, CPU, hard drive, floppy drive, and CD-ROM for less than $30 plus shipping that will work just fine for upgrading Tivo drives. I keep an old PC in the corner of my rec room that I use specifically for working with Tivos. I just picked up a SATA to ATA adapter (see below) so I can upgrade my S3 Tivo drive without having to disturb my main PC.

Here's a SATA to IDE adapter that should work better than the one referenced in an earlier post:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812206001

This adapter plugs right into your SATA drive and allows you to connect the IDE cable to the adapter and still add a 2nd IDE drive to the cable. This is crucial if you have a dual drive setup and are restoring an image from your FAT32 drive using a boot CD. The other adapter plugs into the mainboard and you lose the entire IDE bus in order to connect a single SATA drive.

Let's just say for every lame excuse people have for NOT upgrading their Tivo we can find more reasons why you can and should. The reality for not upgrading the drive yourself boils down to either lack of confidence or laziness. Not having the time is no excuse, unless you've got more money to burn than you know what to do with. If you have time to watch TV then you have time to upgrade your Tivo drive. You also have the added benefit of knowing how to fix your Tivo down the road if there's a problem with the drive. See if Weaknees or anyone else will come to your rescue once the warranty expires (they will, but for a hefty fee).

Maybe I'm just a cheap bastard or maybe I'm just more conscious about where my money goes. I can't see paying a huge surcharge to have someone else do something that's so ridiculously simple. If you want to throw your money away then that's your business, but you know what they say about a fool and his money.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Add me to the "save time" coalition. I have the skill set to do whatever one does to make a TiVo HD, as I have made my own home server, which included taking an old PC and adding a SATA card, SATA drive, etc.

But I have to pull it out of its cubbyhole in the closet. Spend time ($) to do it. Add in the time to learn what to do. Take apart my TiVo. Who knows what else? I don't care, I am sending my TiVo off to WK on Monday, so they can install a 750GB and copy over all my currently recorded shows.

I picked up an SA8300HD yesterday, and will use it until the S3 returns. I have $ to burn, but not time. Plus everytime I learn something new, something old gets pushed aside. And I don't have a Recently Deleted folder for my brain yet.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I have a PC that only only use for the TiVo upgrades. I wouldn't want to use any of my PCs I use on a regular basis. When I first upgraded my drives 5 years ago I went the route of buying a drive that was already set up. But with the tools they have now, which wasn't available 5 years ago, it does make it simpler to set up a hard drive on your own without having any Linux experience.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

captain_video said:


> The reality for not upgrading the drive yourself boils down to either lack of confidence or laziness.


Not at all, it's prioritization. I can always find time to do the upgrade, but that will take time away from something else. I (maybe not you, but I) prioritize my other tasks higher. I could list a million things that I could do on an evening or weekend that rank way higher than pulling the computer apart. Even sitting with my wife watching a primetime show would rank higher so the 'if you've got time to watch TV, you've got time to upgrade' doesn't hold water. This is same reason I don't change the oil on my car myself anymore. The whole go guy another one on e-Bay thing seems a little overkill to just upgrade a TiVo. How much do you think it will cost to ship a $30 PC from an ebayer? You're likely talking close to $60 total to get a POS old PC.

I just don't understand why the 'your lazy' crowd is so concerned with how people spend their time/money.

edit - BTW I've instant-caked (or whatever) a drive before to save a dead TiVo. It was a pain to get the whole primary/secondary IDE, CDROM cables, bios settings to get the machine to boot properly and recognize disks, etc squared away. This being said, I don't know exactly what the premium is for weaknees to do it is. I just hate the holyier than thou attitude.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I guess I'm kinda in the middle on this issue. While I have the computer knowledge to do it myself, I don't have a PC (I know, I know, I can buy one cheap...blah blah), and I'd don't have the time to mess with it. But I did pay extra and bought the pre-formatted drive from WK, popped open my S3 and swapped the drives out. Including running guided setup again. the entire project took less than one hour.

I disagree with captain video about the generality of his statement on lack of confidence or laziness. That most certainly is not always the case.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Whether you do it yourself or buy it ready to install it really doesn't matter. Whatever works best for you. I have my setup specifically for teh TiVo drives so i can open the box up and have the drives out in under two minutes. And sicne the PC is set up specifically for the TiVo drives I just need to connect the drives. But this is also after dealing with this stuff for several years. I was very happy to get a preconfigured drive a few years ago and just install it. It still saved me money and at the time I didn't know much about the process. Bu Either way works. neither way is right or wrong. It's just a matter of personal preference. As long as it works who cares anyway. the whole point is to increase the storage capacity of the TiVo and just enjoy the programming through the TiVo interface.


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

I can see where the Weaknees premium is cost effective. How much is your time worth if you run into a problem and have to repeat the process more than once. Or, if you can't get things to work at all. Glancing at the Underground section of this forum, it's obvious that problems with DIY upgrades are far from rare. Definitely something to consider. I can handle doing an upgrade myself even with the added complexity of SATA, but I don't think I'd recommend DIY to everyone. If someone asked me, I'd surely point out the downside and mention the alternative.


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## chedlin (Apr 13, 2003)

I have upgraded TiVo units enough times when there weren't other options that the DIY makes the most sense for me.

The biggest reason I wouldn't use a prebuilt upgrade kit is cost, but 2nd and nearly as important is that I can copy the recordings from the old drive to the new while doing the upgrade.

Its tempting to go with an external RAID 1 kit to protect against drive failures, but I don't want to spend as much as I did on the TiVo.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> You can buy a used PC on ebay
> 
> ...
> 
> Let's just say for every lame excuse people have for NOT upgrading their Tivo we can find more reasons why you can and should.


You're still not getting it. Some folks don't *want* to shop for a used PC on eBay, do the homework to learn, boot the CD, make the copy, blah blah, and then store this junker PC in a crowded closet, waiting for the next project.

For just a few more bucks, they have a solution right away... immediate gratification. It frees their brain for other, more important priorities. Sure, I could mow my lawn too, but I don't want to. Not because I'm lazy -- but because my time is valuable and I'd rather dedicate it (and my own personal mindshare) to things that captivate me more.


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## Chew (Jan 22, 2003)

Can anyone recommend an inexpensive, *quiet* 500gb drive to use in the S3?


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> This is same reason I don't change the oil on my car myself anymore.


I've been changing my own oil for as long as I can remember and I'll continue to do so for as long as I can hold a wrench. When you factor in the time it takess to drive to the garage, wait for the knuckle-draggers in the shop to change the oil and filter and get you going again, I've had enough time to change my own oil and upgrade a few Tivo drives in the process, all without ever leaving my home.  If you have a situation where you can drop the car off and pick it up later then that's another story. The cost differential between a DIY oil change and what they charge at the local Jiffy Lube isn't all that great anymore (except for the fact that I use special filters and synthetic oil).



> You're still not getting it. Some folks don't *want* to shop for a used PC on eBay, do the homework to learn, boot the CD, make the copy, blah blah, and then store this junker PC in a crowded closet, waiting for the next project.


No, I get it perfectly fine. People that have money would rather spend it foolishly than take the time to learn it for themselves. It's nothing more than laziness brought on by affluence, the way I see it. I see this as an enjoyable hobby and not a chore so I'd much rather learn to do things myself. I take great satisfaction in going the DIY route. Obviously you have other priorities, but that's OK. Different strokes, etc.

While it may be a great timesaver to have someone else do the work you've just purchased a time bomb waiting to go off. You may get years of service out of your Tivo before you experience problems but one day the drive will die, guaranteed. Now your precious Tivo is unusable until you either get a replacement drive from Weaknees or have someone fix it for you. You could replace the drive yourself and be back up and running in less than an hour.

Seriously, I'm not trying to bash anyone for buying a drive upgrade for Weaknees or anyone else, even though I think you're throwing your money away. I'm just trying to impress upon you the ease at which you can perform this process yourself. If you choose not to be enilghtened by this wisdom then so be it. It's your money to do with as you please. However, if you've got all this money to burn, how about tossing some of it my way?


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

captain_video said:


> People that have money would rather spend it foolishly than take the time to learn it for themselves. It's nothing more than laziness brought on by affluence, the way I see it.





captain_video said:


> Seriously, I'm not trying to bash anyone for buying a drive upgrade for Weaknees or anyone else,


How can you reconcile the seemingly contradictory nature of the two quotes pulled from the very same post? From all those who've paid for a disk, I say [-edited so aas not to be banned-]!


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## buddhawood (Oct 9, 2000)

Chew said:


> Can anyone recommend an inexpensive, *quiet* 500gb drive to use in the S3?


Maxtor SATA 500GB Rerun, but new and improved at $129.00
Every dollar adds us up and it's always a pleasure when we can take a few dollars off. 
Our Maxtor 500GB deal we've not got down to $129.00, $4.99 less than a month ago. Was the best 500GB, no rebate mess deal then - and was still even before we made it even better. This is the enterprise rated, 5yr Warranty 7200RPM 16MB Cache SATA I/II drive talking here... The price is cheap, but this is no 'cheapo drive'.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item-maillist/Maxtor/3H500F0S5/

_Edit:Removed affiliate link_


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

captain_video said:


> ....Seriously, I'm not trying to bash anyone for buying a drive upgrade for Weaknees or anyone else....


Really? You could have fooled me (and just about everyone else reading this thread). :down: :down: :down:


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

The Western Digital 500GB 16MB SATA 2 drive is in the 130-135 range (and even has a rebate) at newegg & zipzoomfly.
This is not the quietER WD drive, but WD is quieter than the others to start with. OEM WD drives have a 3 year warranty (unlike retail - only 1 year)

Missed the Maxtor budhawood posted - but FYI, since Seagate acquired Maxtor - you'll likely get a Seagate drive (in Maxtor shell). nothing wrong with that, 'cept Seagates are loud!


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

ashu said:


> Missed the Maxtor budhawood posted - but FYI, since Seagate acquired Maxtor - you'll likely get a Seagate drive (in Maxtor shell). nothing wrong with that, 'cept Seagates are loud!


The Maxtors quoted are "Quickview", so I don't think they are Seagates--unless they have adopted that technology.


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## AlexisLayton (Feb 23, 2003)

Fofer said:


> It's already been explained in this thread (and others) that reauthorization isn't required after a hard drive upgrade.


I'm afraid this depends on your cable provider. I replaced my Series 3 HDs with
Seagate DB-35 750GBs when they first came out, using pre-loaded images from
Weaknees.

My cable company is ComCast (MA) and they use Motorola CCs. With these CCs,
there is pairing with the TiVo hardware supplying the Host ID, the Cable card
supplying the Unit ID (derived from the CC number) and a random Data ID selected when the CC is first paired up. This pairing appears to be stored on the hard drive instead of in non-volatile memory, so if you replace the HD or even if you do a "complete reset" of the TiVo, the data Id is wiped and a new one is created.

I didn't upgrade both my S3 at the same time (because I had to finish watching stuff on one of them) and on the first one I could get them to fix it over the phone, although I had to talk them into it. On the second one they insisted on sending a tech to my house (again).

Note this should not be a problem if you dup your hard drive contents after the pairing has been established.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Really? You could have fooled me (and just about everyone else reading this thread).


Perhaps I came across a bit strong but it was just me expressing an opinion. Take it for what it's worth. I guess I should have sprinkled a few more smilies throughout my posts to let you know where I was coming from. Knowing what I know about hacking Tivos and how long it took me to learn the process I'm continually amazed that anyone would spend an extra $100-200 to have someone provide them with an upgrade drive that can be had for much less. I can literally upgrade a Tivo drive in less than 10 minutes. If you include the time it takes to remove and replace the cover and the drive then it might take an additional 10 minutes or so.

I'd be more than happy to provide the same service for a fraction of what Weaknees charges if it means that much to you. I probably provide better service after the sale than Weaknees does anyway. I've always offered unlimited support for any upgrades I've ever performed but, you know what? I've rarely had anyone come back to me and complain or ask for help because their Tivos have always worked fine long after I upgraded them. Come to think of it, I've never had a complaint, period.

While I have performed numerous upgrades of all kinds over the years for others, and at prices far less than what Weaknees charges for the same service, I'd prefer to show someone how to do it for themselves. I don't go out and solicit others for business but rather people have come to me asking for help, which I gladly offered. I don't believe in overcharging people for such a simple service. My beef isn't so much that people are foolishly willing to part with their hard earned money but rather that Weaknees charges such outrageous fees for what they sell. The fact is that anyone that buys an upgrade from Weaknees is getting raped, plain and simple. What amazes me is that people are happy to bend over and say "Please Sir, can I have some more!"

If you break down how much extra you're paying for the privilege of getting screwed based on your hourly wage, I'd bet you'll find that even if you took the time to learn the process of upgrading a drive yourself it will still save you money overall. Just following one of the simple guides posted all over the place (ironically, there's a good one posted at the Weaknees website) there's a really good chance you'll perform a successful upgrade the first time out and it probably won't take more than an hour's time. I don't know about you but saving $200 or even $100 for an hour of my time certainly seems like a pretty good deal to me. Even if you screw it up several times and it takes you several hours to get it right then you're still way ahead of the game. I've learned more about hacking my Tivos from my screwups than I ever did from getting it right the first time.

Like I said, it's your money to do with as you please. I'm just trying to provide some food for thought before throwing your money down the toilet. Peace.

P.S. To prove my point just take a look at the banner ad at the top of this forum. Weaknees is offering a 750GB upgraded S3 Tivo for only $1299! Wow! Based on the responses I've seen to my posts I bet you guys are chomping at the bit to buy one of these puppies at such bargain prices. Funny thing, though, I just bought my S3 Tivo for only $615, delivered. A 750GB Seagate DB35 drive is less than $300 for a price differential of almost $400 (I wonder what he charges for shipping?). Hey, any of you guys want to buy my 750GB S3 Tivo for $1200?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> Perhaps I came across a bit strong but it was just me expressing an opinion....


If you look at my post, I wasn't referring to you.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> If you look at my post, [...]


You sure do expect a lot, don't you?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

captain_video said:


> No, I get it perfectly fine. People that have money would rather spend it foolishly than take the time to learn it for themselves. It's nothing more than laziness brought on by affluence, the way I see it. I see this as an enjoyable hobby and not a chore so I'd much rather learn to do things myself. I take great satisfaction in going the DIY route. Obviously you have other priorities, but that's OK. Different strokes, etc.


How far should we carry your point? How about everyone who buys a PC? They are obviously spending their money foolishly, instead of learning how to build their own. Or do they *maybe* see this as spending a little more to save them time, and a learning curve they don't want to go thru? Isn't civilization all about building your affluence so one can outsource chores. We pay money for food, instead of growing our own.



captain_video said:


> However, if you've got all this money to burn, how about tossing some of it my way?


Why, what do you need it for? Are you just gonna save it, or will you spend it on some foolishness?



mr.unnatural said:


> I'd be more than happy to provide the same service for a fraction of what Weaknees charges if it means that much to you.


But I don't know you. WeaKnees is a reputable business, and I am comfortable sending them my S3. That's why people pay them, they have a reputation for this.

Why is that so hard for some to understand?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> If you look at my post, I wasn't referring to you.


I think it's the same guy with two names. That was mr. unnatural's only post in this thread.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> I think it's the same guy with two names. That was mr. unnatural's only post in this thread.


If so, its against the rules and cause for accounts to be deleted.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> Why, what do you need it for? Are you just gonna save it, or will you spend it on some foolishness?


Foolishness, no doubt. Something along the lines of food for my family, electric bills, college tuition, etc. I'm not independently wealthy like some of you so I have to economize wherever possible.

Rather than belabor the issue, let me make myself clear about where I'm coming from. I'm just playing Devil's advocate on the whole upgrade issue. Weaknees has obviously found a niche market for those that are either not willing or incapable of performing an upgrade themselves, whatever the reason. If you think what he charges is a fair price then go for it. I'd rather save my money for the foolish things in life. 

As for mr.unnatural, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't hijack my posts. I'm perfectly capable of putting my foot in my own mouth, thank you very much.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> I'm not independently wealthy like some of you so I have to economize wherever possible.


Devil's Advocate, right back atcha:

You strike me as a smart fella. Perhaps if you prioritized your projects differently, you'd find better ways to maximize your income.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

You're lazy if you don't do it yourself.

You're foolish if you don't do it yourself.

You're an idiot if you don't do it yourself.

Why the name calling??? It doesn't take great brains to perform this stuff. The fear factor keeps most people from taking the screws out of the case. Leave it at that.

I installed a 500gb WeekKnees upgrade (yes, I took the cover off!) and am very happy with my purchase. I know some of you paid TiVo $800.00 to get the first S3's and you're here now saying that we spent 100 more then we had to for a larger pre-formatted drive...

I paid $600.00 for my S3 on Ebay and saved more money then most did paying full price at TiVo for the luxury of being the first to own one. As far as I'm concerned, I am still ahead of most in saving money!

I can, and will, wait for the 1 TB Upgrade. I'll wait about a year for all of the early adapters to drive the cost down and then still pay less then you did to buy an early release, but I will have it already formatted with little effort on my part.

I have great respect for WeekKnees for there effort in informing the public on... 
1) How to do it themselves.
2) Selling the complete package.
3) Telling us about mistakes so others wont make them.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rdrrepair said:


> Your lazy if you don't do it yourself.
> 
> Your foolish if you don't do it yourself.
> 
> Your an idiot if you don't do it yourself.


Even people who cannot spell can do it themselves.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Huh?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rdrrepair said:


> Huh?


You spelled "you're" incorrectly.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

dswallow said:


> You spelled "you're" incorrectly.


I was still editing it - I didn't think anyone saw it - it was correct before I put in Huh? I look at most post after putting it in and saw that - quick edit and then you posted.

Oooops. But yes, that is funny...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Even people who cannot spell can do it themselves.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rdrrepair said:


> I was still editing it - I didn't think anyone saw it - it was correct before I put in Huh?


OK, then. Let's do it again.



rdrrepair said:


> I have great respect for WeekKnees for there effort in informing the public on...


Even people who cannot spell can do it themselves.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

dswallow said:


> Even people who cannot spell can do it themselves.


I iz go in too stope nowz tat I iz ahed...

_edit:
So easy, even a Caveman can do it!_


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> Perhaps if you prioritized your projects differently, you'd find better ways to maximize your income.


Fer instance? I do all my own car maintenance, except where it involves several days' work that my schedule won't permit and special tools that wouldn't be cost effective for me to own. If I can rent them then it's another story. I just changed out the timing belts, water pumps, thermostats, and all drive belts on a '98 and '99 Passat; replaced the exhaust system on my daughter's '98 Jetta; replaced the entire set of front control arms and drive axles on my '99 Passat, just to name my most recent automotive projects. FYI - replacing the timing belts on the Passats involves removing the entire front end of the car to access the belt and idler pulley. FYI - I learned how to do a lot of my Passat and Jetta maintenance via forums similar to this one.

I do all of my own home improvements. I tore up my front sidewalk by hand and replaced it with pavestones. I also dug up my front yard and ran a stone retaining wall all across the front of my house. I finished off my basement, which also included breaking up the concrete floor and rerouting some drain pipes. I just repainted the entire interior of my house except for the upstairs bedrooms. The number of home improvement projects I've done over the past 20 years would probably fill a good portion of this entire forum page.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn but I'm trying to get a grasp on what you consider my priorities ought to be? I pretty much do everything myself and if I'm not sure of the process I research it to see how it's done.

I married a nice Catholic girl and she decided we ought to send our kids to Catholic school. I've been paying tuition for both my kids since pre-school all the way through college. Most of the time I'm living paycheck to paycheck just to make ends meet so I need to pinch pennies any way I can. I've been fortunate enough to have developed the skills to do many things over the years. My Dad was a diehard Do-It-Yourselfer and he passed that mindset on to me.

I've been fortunate to live a fairly comfortable lifestyle, but nothing extravagant. I've been able to perpetuate many hobbies simply because I I try to spend my money wisely. Paying for a Weaknees drive upgrade isn't even an option for me, nor would it be even if I could afford it. I always shop for the best deal and evaluate what it would cost me to do the job myself vs. having someone else do it for me. If I can save a couple of hundred bucks by upgrading a drive myself then it seems like a perfectly rational decision to me. I can only assume that those that advocate strongly about using Weaknees as their source for upgrade drives has not even attempted to perform the process themselves. I guarantee that once you've performed a drive upgrade yourself you'll see the folly in giving your money to Weaknees. This ain't rocket science.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

captain_video said:


> I married a nice Catholic girl and she decided we ought to _send our kids to Catholic school_. I've been paying tuition for both my kids since pre-school all the way through college.


You've been setting aside money for the psychotherapy, too, right?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

captain_video said:


> ...I'm not trying to toot my own horn....


To repeat my earlier post....REALLY? You could have fooled me (and just about everyone one else wasting their time reading your posts...rest assured, I won't anymore).


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

captain_video said:


> I always shop for the best deal and evaluate what it would cost me to do the job myself vs. having someone else do it for me.


I do that as well, I try to value my time and weigh it against how much I would have to pay someone to do the job for me. Sometimes I get it right sometimes I don't, just depends on the job. For instance, I pay someone to mow my lawn because the hour or two it would take me to do it is not worth saving the relatively small expense. I do the service on my truck because it's easy to work on. I pay a garage to have my Acura serviced because it isn't. There's also the quality factor. Work you do yourself is generally going to be higher quality if you have the skill to perform the job correctly. I'm not too concerned about mowing the lawn. Pretty hard to screw that up. I don't let anyone touch my motorcycle for no reason other than I'm not willing to risk someone screwing up the job. However, it also depends on what I'm capable of. I know how to work on my motorcycle. Other things may be a different story.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> Fer instance? I do all my own car maintenance, except where it involves several days' work that my schedule won't permit and special tools that wouldn't be cost effective for me to own. If I can rent them then it's another story. I just changed out the timing belts, water pumps, thermostats, and all drive belts on a '98 and '99 Passat; replaced the exhaust system on my daughter's '98 Jetta; replaced the entire set of front control arms and drive axles on my '99 Passat, just to name my most recent automotive projects. FYI - replacing the timing belts on the Passats involves removing the entire front end of the car to access the belt and idler pulley. FYI - I learned how to do a lot of my Passat and Jetta maintenance via forums similar to this one.
> 
> I do all of my own home improvements. I tore up my front sidewalk by hand and replaced it with pavestones. I also dug up my front yard and ran a stone retaining wall all across the front of my house. I finished off my basement, which also included breaking up the concrete floor and rerouting some drain pipes. I just repainted the entire interior of my house except for the upstairs bedrooms. The number of home improvement projects I've done over the past 20 years would probably fill a good portion of this entire forum page.


You're still not seeing it? I understand you derive a great deal of pride from all of these DIY projects, but my point still stands. If you factor in all of the time it took you to read, learn, experiment, tinker, and do the actual work involved with these projects, I imagine it adds up. Hell, if a listing would fill a good portion of this entire forum page (whatever that means) then it's a LOT of time spent -- not just with a screwdriver in hand, but also researching and correcting mistakes.

My point is that if you applied yourself to money-making projects instead during that time instead, or focused on areas that would build an entrepreneurial business, there would be very good potential to increase your income. Enough of an income to the point that it wouldn't "hurt" to pay someone to do those "easier" projects for you. In fact, enough that it would be far _greater_ folly to do them yourself. Because that is time that is taking you away from the more lucrative projects.

Let's look at an extreme example. I'm relatively certain a rich and smart guy like Michael Dell has the know-how to build his own PC. Do you think he's spending a few hours getting parts at Fry's, choosing the right motherboard and PCI card? No. He recognizes that his time is valuable. He applies himself, with priority, to endeavors that make the most money for himself and his family. And I imagine his PC still works great... wherever he bought it from.

Yes -- that's an extreme example. But you seem to be unable to recognize the advantage of a hassle and worry-free purchase over the 100% DIY angle. I contend that these purchases can even make sense for some buyers who _are_ savvy... and not independently wealthy.

Why did you buy a TiVo? Why not build a MythBox or other PVR yourself? The food example (and lawn-mowing) are good examples too. Life is short. Time is precious. In many cases, outsourcing works. Maybe that's one the reasons the "rich get richer" -- they live rich, and know how to best allocate their time and resources. Nothing wrong with spending all of your time looking to save a buck, patting yourself on the back for the DIY accomplishments... but there's nothing wrong with the other life strategy, either.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> You're still not seeing it? I understand you derive a great deal of pride from all of these DIY projects, but my point still stands. If you factor in all of the time it took you to read, learn, experiment, tinker, and do the actual work involved with these projects, I imagine it adds up. Hell, if a listing would fill a good portion of this entire forum page (whatever that means) then it's a LOT of time spent -- not just with a screwdriver in hand, but also researching and correcting mistakes.
> 
> My point is that if you applied yourself to money-making projects instead during that time instead, or focused on areas that would build an entrepreneurial business, there would be very good potential to increase your income. Enough of an income to the point that it wouldn't "hurt" to pay someone to do those "easier" projects for you. In fact, enough that it would be far _greater_ folly to do them yourself. Because that is time that is taking you away from the more lucrative projects.
> 
> ...


Satisfaction isn't just measured by money. Accomplishing something oneself can be quite rewarding. Just because one might be able to afford something doesn't mean they shouldn't do it themselves.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Satisfaction isn't just measured by money. Accomplishing something oneself can be quite rewarding. Just because one might be able to afford something doesn't mean they shouldn't do it themselves.


I get that too. As I said in my post, "I understand you derive a great deal of pride from all of these DIY projects..." (I do as well, from time to time!)

But it just seems that captain_video is striving for even greater satisfaction by dismissing those that choose not to do it themselves, as lazy, uninformed, wasteful or foolhardy. His argument reeks of insecurity and unnecessary rationalization.

Just because one might be able to afford something, doesn't mean they don't know how to do it themselves. And just because one knows how to do something and _still_ isn't interested in doing it themselves... doesn't mean they haven't chosen wisely.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Just because one might be able to afford something, doesn't mean they don't know how to do it themselves. And just because one knows how to do something and _still_ isn't interested in doing it themselves... doesn't mean they haven't chosen wisely.


And in other news, Lost is rumored to answer at least one important question sometime in the next 38 episodes.



(Agreed)


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## CraigHB (Dec 24, 2003)

Hehe, anyone truly dedicated to the persuit of making money (and thereby justifying the cost of paying people for services) wouldn't be watching television or posting here about it. What a waste of time that would be


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

In other news, I've figured out why Captain_Video isn't independently wealthy - he bought 3 (or more - *shudder*) VolksWagenen!

And can we end this pointless arguing, folks? Everyone's different - lets leave it at that!


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

ashu said:


> And can we end this pointless arguing, folks? Everyone's different


Sez you!


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

Lots of good points being made on both sides. As you get older and become more affluent your time becomes more valuable and the money factor isn't as important to some as the convenience of having someone else change your oil or mow your lawn or whatever. I get that. The discussion about spending my time becoming an entrepreneur is irrelevant. That's like saying I should be spending my time going to grad school or trying to invent the next best thing instead of enjoying life the way things are. It's the same reason I don't buy lottery tickets. Winning that much money would be more of a headache than living under my current situation, although my wife would tend to disagree.  

There are a lot of people that have absolutely no business opening up a Tivo to perform an upgrade of any kind. These are the ones that should be sending their entire Tivos to Weaknees and not even bother with the upgrade drive. My opinion is that if you have the capability to swap out the drives then you possess the skills to perform the upgrade on a drive yourself. You'll save yourself a couple hundred dollars and learn a few things in the process. It's a win-win situation for anyone willing to give it a try. Arguing to the contrary just tells me that you haven't tried it, because if you did you'd realize how silly it is to pay someone to do it for you. 

Swapping out a Weaknees drive is only slightly less complex and time consuming than doing the upgrade yourself, rendering your entire argument moot. Personally, I don't care if you do it yourself or pay the homeless guy down the street to do it. All I'm trying to do is show you how you can save yourself some money with minimal time invested. If you don't feel it's worth the effort then it's not worth my time to enlighten you any further. I'm sure Weaknees will be grateful for your continued business.


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Let's look at an extreme example. I'm relatively certain a rich and smart guy like Michael Dell has the know-how to build his own PC. Do you think he's spending a few hours getting parts at Fry's, choosing the right motherboard and PCI card? No. He recognizes that his time is valuable. He applies himself, with priority, to endeavors that make the most money for himself and his family. And I imagine his PC still works great... wherever he bought it from.


Maybe Mr. Dell does go to Fry's choosing the right mobo/ram/cpu/expansion card. Maybe it makes him remember the early days and is a distraction that he likes to take once in awhile.

Maybe he goes to the Dell website and acts like Joe Consumer and goes through the steps to order a new computer (one way to field test)...or maybe he just calls his PA just send over one.

I'm sure he's at a point in his life where money isn't a concern. Maybe hs priority is to make the most fun out of life...

Here's an example...maybe extreme, took me 3 days with no manual 

I replaced the A/C evaporator on my sis in law's minivan. Cost me $350 in parts. If she paid someone to do it, it would of cost between $1600 - $2000.

Granted, it was a little more time consuming than swapping a drive in a TiVo 

http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36870


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

captain_video said:


> My opinion is that if you have the capability to swap out the drives then you possess the skills to perform the upgrade on a drive yourself. You'll save yourself a couple hundred dollars and learn a few things in the process. It's a win-win situation for anyone willing to give it a try. Arguing to the contrary just tells me that you haven't tried it, because if you did you'd realize how silly it is to pay someone to do it for you.


Ok, now you are almost making it seem like it's a no-hassle project. As I'm sure you aware, there are all different levels of difficulty involved with adding the SATA drive in to the mix. I'm a lot like you, in that I enjoy the challenge, but for me personally, it was a challenge. A lot of people would not know where to begin. And TiVo would prefer they didn't try.

My PC supports SATA drives, but I went and used the instructions I had always used before, with PATA drives. Obviously it did not work, but I didn't know. I'm not a Linux user. Then, when I found the correct instructions, Linux could not find my SATA drive. I had to change my BIOS to compatible mode. And once I was all done, I forgot to revert my BIOS settings and XP demanded I register again.

That is very briefly summing it up, but my only point is that it is not ALWAYS going to be as easy as you make it out to be. And I'll bet I lost at least a couple of hours (and I needed two computers for the research.) If I had to do a third one today, It would be a snap since I documented the steps for my computer.

That said, I can see both sides. I used to fix my car. It was all I could afford and I enjoyed it (somewhat.) I got older, I make plenty of money, and I really don't need the hassle. I bring my car in for an oil change. To each his own.


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## Cormode (Feb 27, 2003)

Fofer said:


> My point is that if you applied yourself to money-making projects instead during that time instead, or focused on areas that would build an entrepreneurial business, there would be very good potential to increase your income.


This from a man with 20K posts? Its difficult to take time management advice from what appears to be a forum junkie.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Cormode said:


> This from a man with 20K posts? Its difficult to take time management advice from what appears to be a forum junkie.


Oh, come one, 22,000+ over seven years...that makes it...let's see...about 3,100/year or about only 8.5/day or about 1 every three hours...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> Lots of good points being made on both sides. As you get older and become more affluent your time becomes more valuable and the money factor isn't as important to some as the convenience of having someone else change your oil or mow your lawn or whatever. I get that.


Okay, now we're getting somewhere. (Although "getting older and becoming more affluent" doesn't always have anything to do with it. Sometimes it's just "getting older and shifting priorities" or "getting older and making different decisions," that's all.)



captain_video said:


> My opinion is that if you have the capability to swap out the drives then you possess the skills to perform the upgrade on a drive yourself. ... Arguing to the contrary just tells me that you haven't tried it, because if you did you'd realize how silly it is to pay someone to do it for you.


And this is where you're wrong. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've done the "DIY" upgrade at least 5 times (for myself and friends.) And this time, for my S3, I chose to just buy a pre-formatted drive from Weaknees. I'm usually one to seek out good deals, too. And yet, I was very happy with my decision.

What's silly is trying to convince (us? yourself?) otherwise.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Cormode said:


> This from a man with 20K posts? Its difficult to take time management advice from what appears to be a forum junkie.


Touché. 

Well, to my defense, I (A) never said I was a master of time management... quite the opposite, actually and (B) never tried to convince others that they were lazy and foolhardy for not doing things "my" way.

As an entrepreneur I have, however, carved out a successful business, and am proud to say I do quite well for myself. And I still find time for the fun stuff (and completely wasteful stuff too!) so I figure I'm doing _something_ right.

That's the point I was trying to make. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks... and ASSumptions are often wrong.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> And this is where you're wrong. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've done the "DIY" upgrade at least 5 times (for myself and friends.) And this time, for my S3, I chose to just buy a pre-formatted drive from Weaknees. I'm usually one to seek out good deals, too. And yet, I was very happy with my decision.


Now that totally boggles my mind. You've done the process before and obviously understand what's involved yet you still decided to pay an outrageous premium for what you know to be a simple task. You do realize that you have just contradicted your entire argument about taking the time to learn the process instead of paying for a Weaknees upgrade, don't you? To me that seems extremely irrational but since we obviously don't see eye-to-eye on the topic I think I'll just let it be. I've realized I'm talking to a brick wall so I'll continue to DIY my Tivos while you continue to throw your money around with a smile on your face. Lotsa luck to ya. 

BTW - I'd have to agree with the other posters about your comments regarding time management. 22k posts in these forums seems like you should be able to find better things to do with your time. I guess you'd rather spend the time arguing about upgrading a Tivo than actually doing it. No wonder you went running to Weaknees. 

FYI - Although the join date under my current user name doesn't reflect it, I've been involved with these Tivo Forums back before they split out from the AVSForums and became the TCF. I still haven't come close to having that many posts here or any other forum for that matter. I'd rather take the time to read, learn, and do. It's far more satisfying IMHO.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> I've realized I'm talking to a brick wall


LOL!

Pot, meet kettle.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

captain_video said:


> Arguing to the contrary just tells me that you haven't tried it, because if you did you'd realize how silly it is to pay someone to do it for you.
> 
> Swapping out a Weaknees drive is only slightly less complex and time consuming than doing the upgrade yourself, rendering your entire argument moot. Personally, I don't care if you do it yourself or pay the homeless guy down the street to do it. All I'm trying to do is show you how you can save yourself some money with minimal time invested. If you don't feel it's worth the effort then it's not worth my time to enlighten you any further.


"Enlighten" us??? Give me a break.
There are a lot of things that I can do myself. I could spend every waking moment of my life doing things for myself and not be left with any free time.
I GUARANTEE there are tons of things you pay others to do that you could be doing yourself. Unless you start doing them ALL, you might as well get off your high horse right now and give it a rest.

Buying from Weaknees offers a convenience factor that is worth the price to some people. I'm sure many of them are choosing to do OTHER things for themselves that YOU may be paying professionals for. Get over it already. We all make decisions for ourselves how to make the most out of life and how we want to spend our time and our money.

Jim H.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jhimmel said:


> I could spend every waking moment of my life doing things for myself and not be left with any free time.


Nobody truly has free time. Everyone always is doing something. It's more a matter of priority just what each person chooses to do at any given time.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

captain_video said:


> I guess you'd rather spend the time arguing about upgrading a Tivo than actually doing it.


Maybe he would. Is the way YOU choose to spend your time supposed to be more noble or something?



captain_video said:


> I still haven't come close to having that many posts here or any other forum for that matter. I'd rather take the time to read, learn, and do. It's far more satisfying IMHO.


Wow. Look how special you are.

Jim H.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Nobody truly has free time. Everyone always is doing something. It's more a matter of priority just what each person chooses to do at any given time.


And in other news, on the next episode of _Three's Company,_ there will be a misunderstanding when someone eavesdrops on the roommates, and misinterprets their conversation filled with unintentional double-entendre. Hilarity will ensue.



(Agreed)


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Nobody truly has free time. Everyone always is doing something. It's more a matter of priority just what each person chooses to do at any given time.


I guess it depends on your definition of free time. There are things I want to do and enjoy doing, and there are things that I am compelled to do to achieve a goal but do not necessarily enjoy. We all strike a balance between the two.

I just think is a little arrogant for one person to be claiming to "enlighten" another because they strike that balance a little different.

Jim H.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jhimmel said:


> I guess it depends on your definition of free time. There are things I want to do and enjoy doing, and there are things that I am compelled to do to achieve a goal but do not necessarily enjoy. We all strike a balance between the two.
> 
> I just think is a little arrogant for one person to be claiming to "enlighten" another because they strike that balance a little different.


I agree with everything you've written here, except I take issue with the phrase "a little arrogant." I'd say it's either "_a lot_ arrogant," or... "sadly insecure."


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

Fofer said:


> I agree with everything you've written here, except I take issue with the phrase "a little arrogant." I'd say it's either "_a lot_ arrogant," or... "sadly insecure."


The whole thing reminds me of a certain person on the Usenet TiVo forums that is basically calling everyone who buys an S3 a sucker for spending so much money on an overpriced item when you could build your own device with some research and a handful of computer parts. Their arguments are incredibly similar in content and tone. They are equally misguided.

I have NO issue with someone attempting to point out and explain alternatives to pre-engineered, prepackaged products. I DO take issue with holier than thou attitudes against people who choose to go with the quicker (albeit more costly) solution that also comes with a warranty.

Jim H.


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## mooneydriver (Feb 17, 2007)

Are there any enterprising individuals (or companies) out there who would copy an original 250 GB TiVo HD to a 500 GB or 750 GB replacement drive (including the shows) without having to send them the entire TiVo box? I'm on of those individuals who doesn't have the time (or a desktop PC with two SATA slots) and can afford to pay for the service, but I'd rather yank out the HD myself instead of sending the entire TiVo box to Weaknees.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

mooneydriver, meet captain_video. Win win?


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

If Weaknees charged a fair price for what he offers then there would be no discussion. I just don't see how anyone can justify a $200 markup for a service that can be easily performed by anyone with rudimentary computer skills. I have no problem with anyone paying for an upgrade drive as long as the cost of the drive isn't insanely overpriced. If the process of installing the software was more complex then I could see a rationale that would justify the added expense. I see no justification in a 67% markup over the cost of the drive. It's just bad economics no matter how you spin it. 

You have to look at the overall value of what you're buying. If the $200 surcharge to have someone install the software for you seems justifed to you then in your mind it will be a good deal. For anyone that's more conscious of a tight budget then it becomes a questionable decision. People with more disposable income will be more receptive to higher priced items and not care so much about what goes into them as long as they feel it's a good product for the money. I look at what a blank drive will cost me and weigh it against the time involved for me to do the job vs. the cost of letting Weaknees do it and I see no justification for the added expense. If I realize that the task is beyond my expertise then the extra cost gains more credibility. If I don't have the hardware setup that will enable me to perform the upgrade then that also factors into the mix. The investment in a used PC or anything else required will close the gap between my cost and any potential savings I might see. It is hard to justify the purchase of a used PC if you have no other use for it other than a one-time drive upgrade, although I'm sure you'd find it being used more than once for this purpose.

You remind me of how my wife shops at the grocery store. She sees something on the shelf that she wants and puts it in the cart, regardless of the price. When I do the shopping I look for items that we need and see what they have on sale. I routinely save about $40-60 or even more over what my wife spends when I do the shopping, and I usually bring home more groceries than she does. That's just smart shopping, plain and simple. The same principle applies to a Weaknees drive upgrade. I see it as a bad investment but you obviously see it as a time saver and a convenience. We will never have the same mindset on this issue as a result. I think at this point we can simply agree to disagree.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I thought Weakness' disc was the quieter DB35 version - not quite as much markup as you insist they're charging. And they have always-available discounts and coupons these days. As do dvrupgrade, IIRC.

And you have NO right to judge for somebody else how much of a markup is acceptable for what kind of service. THAT is the part you seem to fail to get. It must the angst of owning and dealing with not on, not two but THREE VolksWagenen that makes you so bitter


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> I think at this point we can simply agree to disagree.


Not necessarily... your comment below is the first that helped me stop feeling like I was beating my head against the wall:


captain_video said:


> If I don't have the hardware setup that will enable me to perform the upgrade then that also factors into the mix. The investment in a used PC or anything else required will close the gap between my cost and any potential savings I might see.


There are some folks out there who've factored that in... and chose the pre-formatted option. That's just smart shopping, plain and simple.

So thanks for conceding that point, at least.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> So thanks for conceding that point, at least.


It's only a concession based on the Weaknees sale price of $399 (which is apparently gone now) and not the usual price of $499. With only about $100 price differential between a bare drive and the Weaknees sale price the gap starts to decrease considerably if you have to invest in extra hardware. Most people already have a PC they can work with and the newest boot CD from mfslive.org allows you to use laptops with external USB drives and SATA drives so the extra hardware requirement is far less than it used to be.

Virtually anyone with any type of PC can perform the upgrade themselves. It's all a matter of deciding what it's worth to you. Even with the cost of buying a used PC, the DIY option is still the cheaper of the two, so how would you consider the higher cost to be smart shopping? You get no better value for your money with the Weaknees kit, other than perhaps some service after the sale (which you wouldn't need if you did it yourself anyway). Lower cost + higher value is smart shopping in my book, and not the other way around as you seem to suggest.

FYI - the drive warranty from Weaknees is only good for six months. The warranty on a retail or OEM Seagate drive is five years if you buy it yourself. That makes the Weaknees drive a real loser in my book. Of course, that all depends on whether or not Seagate will honor the warranty on a drive sold by Weaknees. If Weaknees is known as an OEM supplier then you're only going to get warranty service through Weaknees. If the drive dies after six months then you're completely SOL. Drive warranties are based on the manufacture date of the drive. Chances are Weaknees has been sitting on the drive for a while longer than one you'd buy outright, further reducing the manufacturer's warranty period. To be perfectly honest, the last two years on a Seagate warranty are a complete joke if you read the fine print. In reality, the useful warranty is only good for three years as are the warranties on most OEM drives and a few retail drives as well.

Still think the Weaknees kits are a great deal?



> I thought Weakness' disc was the quieter DB35 version - not quite as much markup as you insist they're charging.


Check out the 2nd post in this thread. DBSwallow links to several sites that are selling the DB35 drives for less than the $300 base figure I used for my comparisons, so the Weaknees markup is actually higher. Prices for OEM drives as well as retail drive kits drop all the time, as recent history has proven time and time again. Weaknees only drops his prices once in a great while, and probably only after he's exhausted his higher priced inventory. You'll probably still see the 750GB drive upgrade sell at the $499 price while the regular drives start dropping towards the $200 price range, making the DIY route an even smarter choice for the pennywise.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I'm thinking when the price of regular drives start dropping towards the $200 price range, then Weaknees' pre-formatted drive kits will drop as well. There will still be a premium, of course. But the delta wouldn't increase... it would stay the same.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

You replied while I was editing my post. Go back and check it again for further details.



> I'm thinking when the price of regular drives start dropping towards the $200 price range, then Weaknees' pre-formatted drive kits will drop as well. There will still be a premium, of course. But the delta wouldn't increase... it would stay the same.


Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not. Weaknees tends to keep his prices high and only lowers them as a last resort. As long as people keep paying the premium prices he's got no reason to lower them. It's capitalism at its finest.


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## msu2k (Jan 4, 2001)

All this talk about trying it myself has made me start to think about it now that the 750GB drives have come down a bit in price. If I wanted to buy the same drive weaknees is selling and do it myself, are there instructions to do that on their site and do they sell the drives off the shelf for decent prices? If not, can someone point me in the right direction for both buying the quiet drive they use and instructions on how to install them?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

captain_video said:


> ...It's capitalism at its finest.


God bless America! :up:


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

msu2k said:


> All this talk about trying it myself has made me start to think about it now that the 750GB drives have come down a bit in price. If I wanted to buy the same drive weaknees is selling and do it myself, are there instructions to do that on their site and do they sell the drives off the shelf for decent prices? If not, can someone point me in the right direction for both buying the quiet drive they use and instructions on how to install them?


are there instructions to do that on their site


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## Corran Horn (Feb 12, 2002)

AlexisLayton said:


> I'm afraid this depends on your cable provider. I replaced my Series 3 HDs with
> Seagate DB-35 750GBs when they first came out, using pre-loaded images from
> Weaknees.
> 
> ...


In all this morass, this is an important point. I think I'll dupe my drive.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

We can discuss this ad nauseam, but if someone doesn't buy something, how will WK stay in business? 

So... today I FedEx'ed my S3 to them, with orders to upgrade to 750GB, and transfer all my programming & shows. With super duper delivery on each end (please don't use DHL WK, please?), I will have it back by Friday. I picked this week as it's a slow week for TV. Only 6-8 shows. Have to live with my SA8300HD :down: until the S3 comes back.

I love capitalism too! :up: 
_
(BTW cap'n-vid, if it's outrageously overpriced, only fools like me will buy it, and WK will go out of business. MKTG 101--price it high enough to make a buck, balanced against supply & demand)_


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> All this talk about trying it myself has made me start to think about it now that the 750GB drives have come down a bit in price. If I wanted to buy the same drive weaknees is selling and do it myself, are there instructions to do that on their site and do they sell the drives off the shelf for decent prices? If not, can someone point me in the right direction for both buying the quiet drive they use and instructions on how to install them?


Check the links in the 2nd thread for online sources for the DB35 drives. I'm sure they're available from other vendors as well so feel free to perform a search to find the best deal.

Here's a link to the instructions posted at the Weaknees website:

http://tivo.upgrade-instructions.com/index.php

The instructions are interactive in that you answer a bunch o fquestions on each page and it will provide details for upgrading your particular model based on your selections.

Here's a link to the mfslive website:

http://www.mfslive.org/

Check out the full guide which has all the info you'll need to perform a drive upgrade on the S3 Tivo as well as any other model.

BTW - I just checked the Weaknees home page and apparently the sale for the S3 750GB upgrade drive is still going on. It's not shown on the S3 upgrade kit page and I missed it on the home page when I first looked. Sorry if this mislead anyone as it was not intentional.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Weaknees will also use a drive that you send them. That way you get the savings of buying the drive yourself, but you don't have to deal with the copying process. i did this originally with my first two HR10-250 boxes. I bought two Maxtor 250GB drives for each unit and had them install the software for me. then they just shipped the drives back to me and I installed them. That was before instantcake was available for the HR10-250. But it did save me money over purchasing the drive through them. Between weaknees and DVR upgrade they have every option covered for you, whether you want to do everything yourself, have them do everything or an option in bwtween those extremes. So everyone can be satisfied since there is an option for everyone.
I'm just aiting for the terabyt drives to come out so I can slap one of those babies in my Main S3. If they would enable MRV I wouldn't ned to have as much storage. i sure hope MRV is enabled before the next sweeps month in MAy. Although it's probably wishful thinking.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> CC Reathorization sometimes required
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


That's something I hadn't considered nor was I aware of the issue. I'm with Verizon FIOS and both my cablecards are the Moto cards. Did you do a complete disk to disk copy or did you simply backup and restore an image to the new drive? I guess I'll have to try both options when I get my S3 back (hopefully by tomorrow) and see which one works. Based on the problems many people have reported getting their S3's up and running with cablecards it could be a real issue when using the Weaknees drives. Chances are it will end up being more of a PITA than anything else as you should be able to get the cards reinitialized if need be.



> Weaknees will also use a drive that you send them.


I still think the price he charges for that service is too high but it is much more reasonable than buying one of his marked up drives. At least you're only paying for his upgrade service as opposed to a preconfigured drive that's been jacked way up in price. If you can get a DB35 drive for about $275 or less then you'll be saving a good bit of money. You'll also be able to utilize Seagate's full warranty on the drive if it ever develops a problem.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

captain_video said:


> I still think the price he charges for that service is too high but it is much more reasonable than buying one of his marked up drives.


Then why don't you offer the service cheaper?
It sounds like it takes you about 5 minutes to do. Just charge $50 plus shipping.
Not worth it to you? That's what I thought.

But somehow it should be good enough for Weaknees.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> Weaknees tends to keep his prices high and only lowers them as a last resort.


I find it fascinating that even though you've discounted the Weaknees choice, you continue to watch it closely enough to be able to make confident predictions. And how many hours, how much attention do you dedicate to this DIY upgrade hobby, to have become such an expert?

Fact is, many (perfectly informed) folks look at the project in front of them... it may involve acquiring a desktop PC, or taking apart their exisiting one... it certainly involves quite a bit of reading and learning, and at least a few hours of work, as well as taking their TiVo offline...

...and in the end, they decide choose the easier (albeit more expensive) way out.

I have no doubt I would have been able to do the upgrade; I've done it in the past. Let's say from start to finish the total time required for the project is... 2 hours? Fact is, in this case, I preferred to enjoy my Saturday with one less "project" to worry about.

All told, the new drive was inside my new S3 in less than 10 minutes. Money very well spent, as far as I'm concerned. 

Diff'rent strokes make the world go round. This won't be the first time folks have agreed to disagree.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jhimmel said:


> Then why don't you offer the service cheaper?
> It sounds like it takes you about 5 minutes to do. Just charge $50 plus shipping.


Seriously...!

mooneydriver, upstream in this thread, posted that he was looking for help. Seems like a golden opportunity for an upgrade expert to make some pocket change. No response from captain_video though....

Considering WK charges such a "premium." There's a wide open field, if you think about it. Wouldn't that mean there's quite a bit of elbow room for an entrepreneur to offer the service at cheaper prices?

Capitalism at its finest, indeed...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I smell a competitor badmouthing weaknees.

Or someone wondering why he didn't think of their business model before. Let me suggest that with the attitude you've projected so far, yourr business would FAIL. Save yourself the trouble 

In my early dealings with weaknees (back when adding a second drive even DIY needed their awesome two-drive bracket - TwinBreeze) and my overall ovbservations of weaknees and dvrupgrade (their respective representatives here), they go WAY above and beyond in terms of giving back to the community, helping the beginner-DIYers and happily offering their business services to those who consider them worthwhile. Anyone going about so fervently tracking their practices, pricing and value has to be incredibly jealous or too much of a do-gooder for their own good 

captain_video, seriously - sell your VWs and you may have less angst in your life!


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## JoJetSki (Jul 25, 2006)

captain_video said:


> You remind me of how my wife shops at the grocery store. She sees something on the shelf that she wants and puts it in the cart, regardless of the price. When I do the shopping I look for items that we need and see what they have on sale. I routinely save about $40-60 or even more over what my wife spends when I do the shopping, and I usually bring home more groceries than she does. That's just smart shopping, plain and simple. The same principle applies to a Weaknees drive upgrade. I see it as a bad investment but you obviously see it as a time saver and a convenience. We will never have the same mindset on this issue as a result. I think at this point we can simply agree to disagree.


I think you should take that money your saving and get some marriage counseling since this whole rant is not about my original post telling people how to save $100 if they were in the market for a cheaper pre-imaged drive, but it really is about your angst over the wife spending too much money at the grocery store. I have to say this comment is meant to be funny and self serving at the same time since my wife is a marriage counselor and at $100 per hour you marriage would be better and my WK upgrade drive would be paid for.

Back to the topic:

I got my drive and put it in the tivo and of course it worked just fine. At first my CC's said they weren't authorized so I was dreading calling Comcast and getting them re-authorized. Since it was late Saturday night I figured why not try and see if I can copy the image from my 250.

<side comment: Now at this point in my story captain_video is about to have a heart attack that I actually had a way of imaging and chose to by the pre-imaged drive...back to the story>.

So I downloaded the latest boot image and tried to boot my new p.c. I built two weeks ago

<side comment: If he didn't have a heart attack captain_video surely now will knowing that I build computers all the time and my job is in computers and I have even imaged my older tivo's, so why did I "waste" the $100 to buy a pre-imaged drive....back to the story>

Sure enough when I booted the new Tivo-Liniux image from March 1 it locked up and wouldn't finish booting. I knew it would lock up. How did I know this? Because years ago when I was "saving a buck" I found that the tivo-linux boot disk would not work on all computers especially newer computers with newer peripherals that require newer drivers. In the past I found my dual cpu machine would lock up the image but my single cpu machine would not (which doesn't currently have sata). So I had a feeling even though I had a sata capable machine built with name brand parts the tivo-linux boot disk would fail. Sure enough it did. Was I glad I spent the $100, you betcha. Now I have a 750 drive tivo. Sure I could have bought a sata card and put it in my older p.c. but at what point does that $100 saved become useless? If I ended up having to get a few sata cards before I found one that would work with the tivo-linux image would that be worth it?

As for the cable cards? After a few hours or so my Tivo showed "Authorized" and I didn't have to call comcast. All my channels are working and everything is right with the world.

I could have pre-downloaded the tivo-linux boot disk and tested it but that would have required me to rip apart the tivo and play with my original 250gig drive to make sure everything was being read. At that point I would have found out the boot disk didn't work on my new machine and could have either figured out what was messing linux up (for me that would have taken hours) or bought a Sata card for my P.C. that I know works with the tivo boot disk. If I got lucky and found a Sata card that worked the first time that would have been cool but what if it hadn't and I had to return the card and get another? When you start to do the math and look at the time....$100 savings may not truly be $100 savings. Time is worth something.

Let the debate continue.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

BTW, while I dislike Weaknees for what they did with their allocation of HR10-250's back when it was just released and suffering a severe shortage, I have recently purchase a power supply from them (primarily because I could find absolutely no other source at any cost ).

However I have gotten the impression that both Weaknees and DVRUpgrade/PTVUpgrade have some sort of licensing deal with TiVo to be able to sell the TiVo image. I'd expect there's some fee involved in that, perhaps a per-copy fee. So while I do personally find the premium Weaknees charges for a drive with a TiVo image to be excessive, I'm not necessarily certain it's excessive because Weaknees is greedy, or that it's excessive because they have to pay TiVo a more-than-token amount of money too.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JoJetSki said:


> Back to the topic


Thanks for that, JoJetSki. That was a very satisfying read. 

I suppose this is the time I weigh in that my job is in computers, too. 

/pauses for captain_video to catch his breath

(Come to think of it, maybe that's part of it. I have enough mindshare dedicated to enough tech projects, and didn't feel like tackling yet another. I have no doubt I'd have similar hiccups and glitches as JoJetSki -- the ones that are easily solved, but just as easily eat up a Saturday. And my free Saturdays are precious.)


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> Then why don't you offer the service cheaper?
> It sounds like it takes you about 5 minutes to do. Just charge $50 plus shipping.
> Not worth it to you? That's what I thought.
> 
> But somehow it should be good enough for Weaknees.


Actually, that's exactly what I have charged for the service, except that I include return shipping in the $50 charge.  I don't openly go out and solicit people to perform this service but I have had many forum members contact me about upgrading their drives for them. If Weaknees charged at or near the same price then I'd be singing their praises instead.



> In my early dealings with weaknees (back when adding a second drive even DIY needed their awesome two-drive bracket - TwinBreeze) and my overall ovbservations of weaknees and dvrupgrade (their respective representatives here), they go WAY above and beyond in terms of giving back to the community, helping the beginner-DIYers and happily offering their business services to those who consider them worthwhile. Anyone going about so fervently tracking their practices, pricing and value has to be incredibly jealous or too much of a do-gooder for their own good
> 
> captain_video, seriously - sell your VWs and you may have less angst in your life!


See the above response. I've used the Twinbreeze bracket and don't really care for it. I actually prefer the one sold by 9th Tee as it is much easier to work with and costs less. I like it better because it's easier to handle and it allows you to remove each drive individually instead of a huge unwieldy assembly. It makes future software upgrades easier to perform when you don't have to pull both drives and remove them from the bracket. I just pop the drive, with bracket still attached, into my PC and I'm off and running. I can't argue that Weaknees has a lot to offer the community but he seems to have a monopoly on certain things and charges through the nose for them. I can buy an entire Tivo off ebay for what he charges for just a replacement power supply.

Sorry if my choice of vehicles offends you. VWs are great cars if you know what to do to maintain them properly (which I do). My '99 Passat is one of the best cars I've owned in quite some time, not to mention it's a blast to drive. The cars definitely have issues, but I've never owned a car that didn't. If you know what to do to head off potential problems they're relatively easy to maintain.



> <side comment: Now at this point in my story captain_video is about to have a heart attack that I actually had a way of imaging and chose to by the pre-imaged drive...back to the story>.


Somewhere you seem to have gotten the impression that I care whether or not you blow your money on a Weaknees drive. I don't. All I've tried to do is show you that it is more cost effective to perform the upgrade yourself and the ease at which it can be performed. The rebuttal arguments all have to do with defending the many ways why you can't do it (in other words, all I'm getting in return are a plethora of excuses, which is really quite a shame). Fact is, there's usually no good reason why you can't do it but rather that you just don't want to, with a few exceptions that have already been discussed and and acknowledged on both sides. That's fine. It's your money. Be my guest. Have a nice day! 



> However I have gotten the impression that both Weaknees and DVRUpgrade/PTVUpgrade have some sort of licensing deal with TiVo to be able to sell the TiVo image. I'd expect there's some fee involved in that, perhaps a per-copy fee. So while I do personally find the premium Weaknees charges for a drive with a TiVo image to be excessive, I'm not necessarily certain it's excessive because Weaknees is greedy, or that it's excessive because they have to pay TiVo a more-than-token amount of money too.


That is correct. Both Weaknees and PTVUpgrade are the only licensed distributors of Tivo images that I'm aware of. Actually, Weaknees doesn't distribute images AFAIK, except when they're part of a replacement drive kit. I don't track everything they sell so I can't say with 100% certainty that this is the case (pause while everyone else has a heart attack  ). I do know that PTVUpgrade is licensed to distribute Tivo images in the form of their Instantcake images. They are also the only one licensed to distribute the killhdinitrd'd kernels as part of their enhanced LBA48 boot CD images.

FYI - I was one of the contributors to the bounty that paid for the development of the killhdinitrd process, without which none of you would have been able to hack your series 2 Tivos without a PROM mod. I received nothing in return for my investment other than the ability to hack my own S2 DTivos, which was well worth the investment to me. I am glad that my contribution also helped to make the hack available to the general population so that they would also be able to enjoy the same added features I was able to install on my DTivos. You would never have been able to use the Zipper without it. There were lots of other folks that also contributed but I'll bet there weren't too many members of this forum that participated since it was pretty much only known to the rank and file at DDB. If I have slighted anyone here with that statement then I apologize but I felt it was worth mentioning since some people tend to think I'm not contributing anything to this hobby besides my opinion.



> And how many hours, how much attention do you dedicate to this DIY upgrade hobby, to have become such an expert?


My best guess would be about the same amount of time you spend posting in this forum with a multiplication factor several times over. I've been hacking Tivos since they first came out. I've upgraded and hacked most models except for the series 2/2.5 SA models and the DVD models, mainly because I've never had a desire to own any of them. I've also upgraded Ultimate TVs, ReplayTVs, and Dish PVRs. I also wrote the DTivo Hacking FAQ many years ago that I've seen posted on at least a half dozen different forums, not to mention numerous tutorials and roadmaps to help others hack their own Tivos. So what exactly have you done to contribute to this hobby? 

Just to set the record straight, I'm not in the business of performing upgrades for money. I have done it in the past for people that have requested it but I've probably rejected more requests than I've agreed to. I am in no way a competitor to Weaknees or anyone else for that matter, and I'm not here trying to take business away from him. My only purpose in this whole drawn out topic is to let people know that there is a more cost effective way to upgrade your Tivo. While I believe Weaknees overcharges for some things he sells he does offer a service to those that are in need of it. I have dealt with him personally and he seems like a pretty straight shooter. I may think he charges too much but obviously others have their own thoughts on the subject. I cannot tell anyone how to spend their own money nor was it ever my intention to do so, although many of the responses I've received lead me to believe that is the impression some people are getting. I don't care how you spend you money nor do I have the right to tell you what to do with the money you earn. Whatever I've offered in this thread is my personal opinion and nothing more. Anyone with an opposing opinion is entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine. I don't expect to change anyone's mind on the subject and I certainly hope they don't think they've got a prayer of changing mine.

That's it, I'm done. I've take up far too much time in this thread as it is. Now let us resume our regularly scheduled programming.


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## rtjones (Oct 4, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> I definitely recommend the 750GB Weaknees upgrade. I paid the original $499 price for it. Very simple to install and it runs very quiet. I received mine the same day I got my Series 3 and immediately installed it before even turning on my S3 (I kept the 250GB as an emergency backup drive if the 750 fails or to perhaps use it with the E-SATA port whenever that becomes active.)


George, how much quieter is the 750GB Weaknees drive? I plan on upgrading from my standard 250GB due only to the noise mine puts out. TiVo sent me a replacement model, free of charge, and it makes the exact same amount of drive noise. Would you estimate the Weaknees drive to make 75% of the noise of the stock? 50%? 25%? I'm really just trying to find a solution to make my drive quieter, without **again** losing my saved programs.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I got the 500GB Weaknees drive and installed it before even turning on the TiVo.

Not knowing how noisy the original one was, but knowing how quiet the new one is, I'd have to say 75% quieter, at least.

I have it in my bedroom, 5 feet from my head, and I sleep like a baby.


phox


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

That's what I would have said, Phox...about 75% quieter. I had the stock 250GB and replaced it with the WK 750GB DB35.


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## rtjones (Oct 4, 2006)

I called Weaknees and asked the guy the same question (except 250GB stock vs 500GB upgrade), and he too said 75% quieter.  I'm thinking this is the way to go... I didn't ask, but would assume the 500GB is equally quite to the 750GB, and vice versa.


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## russwong (Sep 17, 2002)

So I hadn't heard about these DB35 drives from Seagate until recently and I'm still trying to understand them. From their marketing spiel, it says it's Quiet, reliable hard drives tuned for digital entertainment.

Looking at the spec sheet between the 750G 7200.3 (DB35) drives compared to the 750G 7200.10 (non-DB35) drives, I'm trying to see how they differentiate.

From a sound perspective:

DB35 - 3.0 bels typical and 3.1 bels max (no indication of what mode the drive is in)
Non-DB35 - 2.8 bels idle and 3.7 bels seek (measured in performance mode, not quiet mode)

So those are the numbers in the data sheet and it's hard to compare, because it doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison. I'm assuming that in general the DB35 drive is quieter, which is good to know.

The measurement that concerns me is the Annualized Failure Rate (AFR) of the DB35 compared to the non-DB35.

DB35 - .68%
Non-DB35 - .34%

This would indicate that the DB35 drives are twice as likely to fail then the non-db35.

Most of the other specs seem to be exactly the same, except that the DB35 drive has a specific comment about the number of SD/HD streams it can support (10). Does this mean the non-db35's can't do this? And what is it that makes it so that it can do it?

Just wanted to see if any one else noticed this AFR rate and thoughts on the DB35. I know weakness really likes them, but I'm finding the non-db35 for more then $100 less.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

For all practical purposes, the only difference is the noise. Seagate's are notoriously seek-noisy. Other brands have AAM support (Automatic Acoustic Management) allowing the end user to control AAM modes between quiet and performance. Seagate chose not to license the technology.

It's maddening to hear the drive seek noise. I still have one unit with a Seagate drive in it and the only reason I haven't replaced it is that it's ion a DirecTV receiver and I'm planning to turn off DirecTV and sell off the equipment soon. It's worth the $50-$100 to get the quieter version.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> It's maddening to hear the drive seek noise ... It's worth the $50-$100 to get the quieter version.


I'd agree with that... _especially_ in a TiVo that is always on and is always recording. The hard drive makes seek noise 24/7. I was unable to sleep with a noisy DTiVo in my bedroom, ended up placing it elsewhere and distributing the video and IR.

FWIW, the S3 with DB35 upgrade is whisper quiet.


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## rtjones (Oct 4, 2006)

Fofer said:


> FWIW, the S3 with DB35 upgrade is whisper quiet.


That's what I'm looking for!!! Very excited. To receive my DB35 Friday, and peform surgery Friday night... Looking forward to the results... :up:


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dswallow said:


> ...It's worth the $50-$100 to get the quieter version.


I agree, Doug. It was well worth it to me.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

Prior to (and also including IIRC) the 7200.7 series Seagates were the quietest drives you could buy. They had gotten away from that with their subsequent drive models. It's good to see them get back on top with the DB35 drives as one of the quietest drives around. The pricing I've seen for the DB35 vs. the other 750GB drives in the Seagate lineup is surprisingly close so you should be able to get a comparable deal on a DB35 with a little searching.

FYI - I got my S3 Tivo back yesterday after sending it out for a PROM mod. I performed a backup and restore to a new 500GB SATA drive using an IDE to SATA adapter and the new mfslive boot CD. The commands are slightly different than what I've been used to with MFSTools and the various PTVUpgrade versions that followed. Everything went smoothly and I was able to perform a backup and restore in about 1/2 hour. The backup image is larger than any other Tivo I've seen so far. I'll have to go back and check the actual file size but I believe it was about twice the size of my HR10-250 backup image.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

captain_video said:


> Prior to (and also including IIRC) the 7200.7 series Seagates were the quietest drives you could buy. They had gotten away from that with their subsequent drive models.


The 7200.7 was around when Convolve and MIT brought suit against Seagate (and Compaq) because of their alleged violation of the Convolve Input Shaping patent and Quick & Quiet technology. At the time, Seagate was disabling their AAM support. There seemed to be some uncertainty exactly what Seagate did. While there were some drives that were still very quiet; there were others that were decidedly not.

As far as I can find out, it looks like Seagate is still involved in the patent dispute with Convolve. However Maxtor licensed the technology. Since Seagate bought Maxtor, who knows what that might bring.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

rtjones said:


> George, how much quieter is the 750GB Weaknees drive? I plan on upgrading from my standard 250GB due only to the noise mine puts out. TiVo sent me a replacement model, free of charge, and it makes the exact same amount of drive noise. Would you estimate the Weaknees drive to make 75% of the noise of the stock? 50%? 25%? I'm really just trying to find a solution to make my drive quieter, without **again** losing my saved programs.


I never had the S3 on with the original drive, I replaced the drive with the Weaknees Seagate 750GB DB35 before I even powered the S3 on for the first time (the UPS guy delivered them both at the same time). So I don't know how loud the original 250GB is. That being said, I can't hear the 750GB DB35 unless I put my head close to the Tivo and turn the sound on the TV off. I can't hear it at all from my viewing position which is about 9 1/2 feet away with or without the sound from the TV on. It is whisper quiet.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I will say that I used the S3 with the original 250 GB drive for about a week. It was very quiet. 

With the new, larger 750 GB (DB35) replacement, it was still just as quiet. It wasn't an improvement... it was about the same, which was pretty quiet to begin with.

I'm sure there are other 750 GB drives out there that wouldn't be described that way.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Fofer said:


> I will say that I used the S3 with the original 250 GB drive for about a week. It was very quiet. With the new, larger 750 GB (DB35) replacement, it was still just as quiet.


I think I could say the same thing. I've had 3 S3's that I ran for a while (one return, with nothing wrong) and all three were very quiet in their original state. The two replacement WD drives I installed are also very quiet. No difference that I can tell either.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I rec'd a call today from WK, they had a problem copying my old drive to the new 750GB, and were not able to save my programming or shows.   . They are going to put the new HD in and send the S3 back, but it will be a clean install. Aagh. This is not what I wanted. I coulda switched drives without sending my S3 off; I wanted to save all my programming (I prolly have 50-60 wishlists alone, plus SPs). All they said (it was a voice mail, I didn't talk to them directly) was they had a problem and couldn't get my drive to copy.

I assume they know what they're doing far better than I could ever dream of, so it's probably not worth trying on my own. Now I'm gonna have to put my old HD back in, make notes on all my SP & WL, watch the shows I saved, then switch back again.

So much for paying for convenience. 



captain_video said:


> FYI - I got my S3 Tivo back yesterday after sending it out for a PROM mod.


What kinda PROM mod can one do to an S3? jes' curious . . .


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

astrohip - I would CERTAINLY hope they don't charge you the extra for copying your old data onto the new HD, since they were unable to.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

astrohip said:


> I assume they know what they're doing far better than I could ever dream of, so it's probably not worth trying on my own.
> 
> So much for paying for convenience.


On the other hand, you could look at it in another way, if you're confident about that first statement... they did save you quite a bit of headache and hassle, had you spent many hours attempting it yourself. If all else fails, maybe captain_video will step up to the (apparently trivial) task.

Sorry it didn't work out perfectly for you. 



astrohip said:


> What kinda PROM mod can one do to an S3? jes' curious . . .


Me too. What precisely does the PROM mod allow? All the regular 3rd party hacks we're already familiar with?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

AFAIK there are other fora to bring up PROM and more involved TiVo hacks. We wouldn't want to raise inappropriate eyebrows by discussing it here.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Indeed, ashu. Google is my friend.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I'd also get on my Soapbox about how futile it is to attempt to hack what is meant to be a plug-and-play device, but I guess as long as service requirements are not being circumvented, each user/owner has a right to decide how far they want to go with this kind of thing 

Me - I prefer plug & play ease now - maybe it's a sign of premature senility


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> astrohip - I would CERTAINLY hope they don't charge you the extra for copying your old data onto the new HD, since they were unable to.


They were very polite about it. They refunded the $100 due to the sale (I couldn't get the sale page to work, and because I was under a tight time limit, went ahead and "checked out" at the higher price), AND they said they would not charge me for the failed transfer attempt. So no complaints on that part. And I hadn't thought about the trouble they saved me; I woulda been griping & moaning if I tried to do it and failed . . .


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I'm curious to know why a copy should fail, though. Dying disk, perhaps? Doesn't bode well for longevity, unless yours was subjected to shipping stresses (in which case a self-upgrade *could* have been seamless  )


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ashu said:


> I'm curious to know why a copy should fail, though. Dying disk, perhaps? Doesn't bode well for longevity, unless yours was subjected to shipping stresses (in which case a self-upgrade *could* have been seamless  )


I was kind of thinking:


> (I prolly have 50-60 wishlists alone, plus SPs).


 might have something to do with it?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

pl1 said:


> I was kind of thinking: might have something to do with it?


The copy is akin to a Disk Duplication. One of the copy methods involves the use of dd (on Linux)

This has NOTHING to do with it - if the OS and settings support it, the copy should happen too. Unless post-copy, the growing of the disk/partition tables (the mfsad step) finally was the last straw on some databse size camel's back.

astrohip, if your copy attempts ALSO fails, when you reconnect the old drive, try cleaning some of these up - I seriously doubt it'll affect the copy.

My money's on a dying drive. In which case a barebones copy would still at least retain the SP/Wishlist & settings info. You could finish watching the recordings off the old disc and then repurpose it for PC use (no point 'saving' the old disc folks, just save a raw image of it!)


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ashu said:


> The copy is akin to a Disk Duplication. One of the copy methods involves the use of dd (on Linux) This has NOTHING to do with it - if the OS and settings support it, the copy should happen too.


I should have used a smiley. I was just making fun of the number of WL's. And for that matter, an image backup restore keeps ALL of those settings intact. You only lose the actual video.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

This time are you asknig or telling me? No smiley again!

 I've also performed plenty of upgrades to S2 units, just so you know I already know all that


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> What kinda PROM mod can one do to an S3? jes' curious . . .


The same kind you'd do for an R10 DTivo or 540xx SA Tivo. You need to break the chain of trust before you can install any hacks and modifying the PROM is the only way this can be accomplished on the newer models. You also need to neuter the initrd function in the kernel to bypass the security checks at startup and keep your installed hacks from getting wiped. Check out digital-recorder.com for a free PROM mod. The guy will remove your PROM and reprogram it for you for free. All you need to do is provide $25 for return shipping.

If you want your PROM socketed you will need to provide your own socket. Otherwise he will simply solder the reprogrammed PROM back on the mainboard and return it to you. Personally, I don't see any need to socket the PROM since the odds of you ever needing to reprogram it are slim to none, but it's still a good idea to socket it anyway. If Tivo could program it remotely then we'd be able to program it ourselves without removing it from the board.

One word of caution - if you decide to have your PROM hacked you will need to replace the initrd portion of the kernel to completely break the chain of trust that will permit you to hack the S3 just like any other Tivo. There's a utility called replace_initrd posted over in the files section at DDB that makes this a relatively simple task, once you understand the command line syntax. It includes the neutered initrd gzipped file that gets written to the appropriate location in the kernel automatically. Just make sure you get an IDE to SATA adapter so you can use the PTVUpgrade boot CD for this task because the mfslive boot CD does not play well with this program.



> I rec'd a call today from WK, they had a problem copying my old drive to the new 750GB, and were not able to save my programming or shows. . They are going to put the new HD in and send the S3 back, but it will be a clean install. Aagh. This is not what I wanted. I coulda switched drives without sending my S3 off; I wanted to save all my programming (I prolly have 50-60 wishlists alone, plus SPs). All they said (it was a voice mail, I didn't talk to them directly) was they had a problem and couldn't get my drive to copy.
> 
> I assume they know what they're doing far better than I could ever dream of, so it's probably not worth trying on my own. Now I'm gonna have to put my old HD back in, make notes on all my SP & WL, watch the shows I saved, then switch back again.
> 
> So much for paying for convenience.


If Weaknees ran into a problem you can bet they won't spend a lot of time trying to get it right. Time is money to them and if they can't get it right on the 1st or 2nd try they'll simply give up and take the easy way out. They use the exact same processes outlined in their own interactive instructions that are parroted in numerous other guides. Depending on what the issue was with your drive, there's a good chance you may have been able to perform the dupe yourself, although you may have had to play around with it for a while before you got a successful copy made.

There's no reason why you still couldn't do the copy yourself as long as Weaknees sends you the original drive back intact, which they should. Make a backup image of the 750GB drive using an IDE to SATA adapter and the PTVUpgrade boot CD. That way you can simply restore the image and use the 750GB drive just like it came from Weaknees if you discover you can't make a disc to disk copy of your old drive. It certainly sounds like you've got stuff on the drive you want to save so it might be worth a shot. I generally don't do disc to disc copies myself because it just takes too darn long. I can literally restore an image to a new drive in a matter of minutes. I always try to finish watching any shows on the drive before I attempt to hack it in any way so if I screw something up I won't lose anything. It's just much easier to start with a fresh install. If nothing else, you can simply keep the old drive in your Tivo until you clear off the old recordings and then switch over to the new drive.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

captain_video said:


> You need to break the chain of trust before you can install any hacks and modifying the PROM is the only way this can be accomplished on the newer models.


Is there any disadvantage to doing this on a TiVo that already has content? Are the previously recorded shows rendered unwatchable or something? Or can it basically be done at any time?


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ashu said:


> This time are you asknig or telling me? No smiley again!
> I've also performed plenty of upgrades to S2 units, just so you know I already know all that


Neither, I just thought you were trying to explain all that to me:"The copy is akin to a Disk Duplication. One of the copy methods involves the use of dd (on Linux)". It just occurred to me that if the OP's goal was to keep all of those settings, that may still work, from the original drive, even if it is failing. But, not telling, just thinking. Ok, here's a  OK?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Is there any disadvantage to doing this on a TiVo that already has content? Are the previously recorded shows rendered unwatchable or something? Or can it basically be done at any time?


Based on what I experienced on my HR10-250 when I disabled encryption, previously recorded shows remain viewable. Newly recorded shows are unencrypted and also remain viewable should you turn encryption back on later for some reason.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

captain_video said:


> Check out digital-recorder.com for a free PROM mod. The guy will remove your PROM and reprogram it for you for free. All you need to do is provide $25 for return shipping.


That URL doesn't seem to be correct.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Based on what I experienced on my HR10-250 when I disabled encryption, previously recorded shows remain viewable. Newly recorded shows are unencrypted and also remain viewable should you turn encryption back on later for some reason.


Great, thanks for the info, dswallow. That's what I was hoping to hear.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dswallow said:


> That URL doesn't seem to be correct.


Try it without a dash -- at least, that's the URL referenced in "the" thread over on the "other" forum.

Google is your friend, too.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Try it without a dash -- at least, that's the URL referenced in "the" thread over on the "other" forum.
> 
> Google is your friend, too.


I did try that but didn't see anything about PROM modifications at that URL either.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Google for "S3 PROM" -- the first search result brings you to the relevant thread. And the poster's name (who owns the company, I presume) is cordless. Based on what he's said there (and the price,) he's doing it as a gesture to the DDB/hacking community, and less of as a commercially available service.


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

Fofer said:


> ...
> And the poster's name (who owns the company, I presume) is cordless. Based on what he's said there (and the price,) he's doing it as a gesture to the DDB/hacking community, and less of as a commercially available service.


The guy has a history of slimy activity, including selling service theft hacks. Best to avoid him, IMHO.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Thank you, Jamie.

Hence my earlier (ignored) advice about posting/having/getting into discussions about such sisues here, where it HAS beene xpressly prohibited, IIRC (if not, don't kill the messenger!)


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

Jamie's right about the guy's history. He's been selling hacked Tivos on ebay for several years that have included hacks from the authors at DDB without their permission. The hack software is all copyrighted and it's being distributed illegally so let your conscience be your guide. I just posted the info as a point of interest. Whether or not you decide it's worth it to deal with him is up to you.


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## alexchiz (Apr 12, 2007)

Can you use a Restore Utility such as Ghost or Acronis to go from the factory drive to the new drive?


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

alexchiz said:


> Can you use a Restore Utility such as Ghost or Acronis to go from the factory drive to the new drive?


No, you must use linux utilities to make an image (or copy) and restore. (Not these specifically, but this is an example.)You can also buy a CD with the image already on it for your specific model TiVo. Also, you need a PC with SATA support for the S3.


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## alexchiz (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks, I was hoping it would be as easy as just ghosting a new drive. Let me see if I understand the procedure...If I purchse a CD with the S3 image, Using a PC put the CD in the tray, and strap the new SATA drive as the slave, then boot the PC and it will put the image on the new drive?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pl1 said:


> No, you must use linux utilities to make an image (or copy) and restore. (Not these specifically, but this is an example.)You can also buy a CD with the image already on it for your specific model TiVo. Also, you need a PC with SATA support for the S3.


With an adapter Sata to ATA any computer will work.


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## alexchiz (Apr 12, 2007)

Even if the Motherboard has SATA drive capability?


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

alexchiz said:


> Even if the Motherboard has SATA drive capability?


lessd was suggesting the siolution (ATA/SATA adapter) for one fo the following two eventualities
- no SATA on MoBo
- SATA chipset on MoBo unsupported by the MFX boot disk (it happens)


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## alexchiz (Apr 12, 2007)

I appreciate all the help!


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

alexchiz said:


> Thanks, I was hoping it would be as easy as just ghosting a new drive. Let me see if I understand the procedure...If I purchse a CD with the S3 image, Using a PC put the CD in the tray, and strap the new SATA drive as the slave, then boot the PC and it will put the image on the new drive?


That sounds about right. You wouldn't need any hdd besides the new one, of course, since you will boot off of the CD. I can't answer all of your questions since I have not specifically used the Instacake CD. I made my own from the w e a k n e e s site.


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