# Pleasantly Surprised with HR20 after HR10-250



## Maurice (Jul 19, 1999)

I have had TiVo since they first released the Series 1  which I still have with Lifetime subscription (great value). I also have DVD Pioneer TiVo and when I moved to HD last year got a HR10-250  which I recently upgraded to 750GB.

In anticipation of newer HD programming and HD locals via SAT I called DirecTV to order the HR20.

*I was reluctant as I really like and am used to the TiVo Interface.* But after programming credits, it was basically free. (Been a customer over 10 years and never got a free box before)

*I am pleasantly surprised how much I like the HR20*. I still like the Tivo, but other than the live dual buffers, the HR20 is as good or better in other ways. The interface is much better than I expected and it is not necessarily worse than TiVos  just different.

Among the features of the HR 20 I like:

Ability to have native resolution. This is a biggie, as my TV (Fujitsu) has a much better scaler that the HR10 or the HR20.

Ability to view the guide, menu, etc. when you are watching a recorded program, with a small TV box in the upper corner, similar to PIP

All of the outputs working simultaneously. Easier to connect a DVD recorder and slingbox.

90 minute buffer  (Even if only one)

The Menu and Guide speed is great

The Mini Guide and mini list of what is playing are very useful.

The built in 30 second skip that shows what you are skipping.

The Dolby sound on the same channel and same movie, through HDMI via the same Denon receiver sounded much better on the HR20 when compared to the HR10.

Easy to replace main Drive via eSata. Not perfect yet, but works fine and much easier that copying my image into a new drive on an old PC with a DOS partition, and Linux boot.

The Many ways you can sort your playlist

Being able to move 12 hours at a time thru the guide in either direction

Disk usage indicator in list

RF remote. Not used this yet  but built in (I use the Harmony)


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Sounds like it is a good option, but I just can not get past the lack of dual buffers. Also, not sure if I want or even can stop saying " I got it on tivo".


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## DolphinGirl (May 29, 2005)

I too have the lifetime TIVO subscription. I thought DirecTV had taken over administration of these? If so, is it transferrable to the HR20?


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

The Lifetime is on your account, DG, if you bought it for a DirecTV with TiVo, not the standalone TiVos. You just have to make sure you activate any new DVRs _before_ you deactivate the DVR you purchased lifetime on.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

Maurice said:


> 90 minute buffer  (Even if only one):
> 
> The built in 30 second skip that shows what you are skipping.


If you are watching one channel and have the buffer built up, can you switch tuners to a different channel and then come back to your original channel and have the buffer intact?

How does the 30 second skip work? On the Tivo machine, it is instantaneous. How fast is it on the HR20? It must be slower if you can see what is being shown.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Bob_Newhart said:


> If you are watching one channel and have the buffer built up, can you switch tuners to a different channel and then come back to your original channel and have the buffer intact?


No it can't. You have to have dual buffers for that and the HR20 lacks that feature.



> How does the 30 second skip work? On the Tivo machine, it is instantaneous. How fast is it on the HR20? It must be slower if you can see what is being shown.


It gets better/faster as time goes on but it's about 2-3 seconds, maybe 5? (I don't use it much). I never used the 30 second skip on a Tivo either so I'm no expert on this. With networks programming odd timed commercial breaks to fight against a 30 second skip some people have come to like the 30 sec slip because if you noticed the show starting before the end of the slip you can hit replay a couple times and be at the beginning of the show. It's a preference really.

At the end of the day, a true instant skip will be rare to find on any newer DVRs because Hollywood and the NAB hate it. Companies don't want to be sued to death like Replay was. And thus why still to this day the 30 second skip on the Tivo is still a backdoor code that 98% of Tivo owners have no idea exists.

Anyway, much more HR20 info can be found at DBStalk. There is a current thread going on what people like about the HR20 http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87938
A good read for perspective and comparison. My fav is that if you record back to back programs on the same channel and have padding that overlaps them, it will only use 1 tuner leaving the other free to record something else. On a Tivo it will use both tuners for the overlapping programs on the same channel meaning there is a conflict for the 3rd show.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Bob_Newhart said:


> How does the 30 second skip work?


It's not a skip, it's called a "slip" which is basically a 30 second 2xFF. Definitely not as fast as a skip - I really don't like it.



Maurice said:


> Ability to view the guide, menu, etc. when you are watching a recorded program, with a small TV box in the upper corner, similar to PIP


I wish there was a way to turn this off. Here is a scenario: I'm recording the Red Wings game on one tuner. Get home, decide to watch 24 while letting the wings game record. 24 is done, I select "Delete" and it goes back to the "List" (now playing for the HR20) - BUT, the Live TV window pops up in the corner just in time for me to hear "RED WINGS SCORE AND WIN IN TRIPLE OVERTIME!!!!!!!!!!!!" - Thanks, game was just spoiled for me!

Same with getting home - last night I get home and wanna watch the Tigers game from the start (it was in the 9th when I get home) and I can't turn on the TV without hearing the broadcast (on my Tivo, I can hit the Tivo button before turning the TV on) - so I turn it on and hear "what a night for the tigers bats, pushing home 14 runs." OK, so I guess they won, don't have to bother watching then



Maurice said:


> The built in 30 second skip that shows what you are skipping.


See my comment above....



Maurice said:


> Easy to replace main Drive via eSata. Not perfect yet, but works fine and much easier that copying my image into a new drive on an old PC with a DOS partition, and Linux boot.


Have you done this yet? I haven't but want to - which drive did you get?



Maurice said:


> Being able to move 12 hours at a time thru the guide in either direction


But you can't move 2 hours through very fast like I can with my Tivo and the FF button



Maurice said:


> Disk usage indicator in list


Tivo doesn't have this?


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## Maurice (Jul 19, 1999)

Correct. The 30 sec skip is a slip, A bit different than the 30 sec skip on TiVo but achieves similar results.

I have not added the external drive yet. But saw it at a friends. He got the Seagate Free Agent Pro - 750GB eSata. I may get the same one

The dual buffers on TiVo are great and is what I will miss the most if I give up the TiVo. On the HR20 - if you want to return to the "buffer" after you switch channels, you need to have pressed record and turn the buffer on tuner 1 into a recording. Cumbersome workaround.

If there would have been a TiVo capable of the new HD MPEG 4 channels I would have probably not even looked at the HR20. But now that I got the HR20 I see it is a very acceptable alternative. Each has it advantages and both do a good job of recording the TV I want to watch. So far I am keeping both.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

scottjf8 said:


> It's not a skip, it's called a "slip" which is basically a 30 second 2xFF. Definitely not as fast as a skip - I really don't like it.
> 
> I wish there was a way to turn this off. Here is a scenario: I'm recording the Red Wings game on one tuner. Get home, decide to watch 24 while letting the wings game record. 24 is done, I select "Delete" and it goes back to the "List" (now playing for the HR20) - BUT, the Live TV window pops up in the corner just in time for me to hear "RED WINGS SCORE AND WIN IN TRIPLE OVERTIME!!!!!!!!!!!!" - Thanks, game was just spoiled for me!
> 
> Same with getting home - last night I get home and wanna watch the Tigers game from the start (it was in the 9th when I get home) and I can't turn on the TV without hearing the broadcast (on my Tivo, I can hit the Tivo button before turning the TV on) - so I turn it on and hear "what a night for the tigers bats, pushing home 14 runs." OK, so I guess they won, don't have to bother watching then


I agree that this is a feature I wish I could turn off. I get past this by hitting the pause button before I turn on the TV. I still see a still frame of video, which may spoil something, but it's better than having moving video and audio going.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

You know what? I'm really jealous. I wish my experience with the HR20 could have been "pleasantly surprised" instead of what it was, which was horrified beyond belief. I would have loved to have had an upgrade path to MPEG4 that improved on the HR10, but instead I find myself in the uncomfortable position of knowing the venerable, wonderful HR10 has a shelf life (and knowing the only DTV option is completely unacceptable). I just hope that mine last until something better comes along, 'cause for me, the HR20 just aint the answer.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> You know what? I'm really jealous. I wish my experience with the HR20 could have been "pleasantly surprised" instead of what it was, which was horrified beyond belief. I would have loved to have had an upgrade path to MPEG4 that improved on the HR10, but instead I find myself in the uncomfortable position of knowing the venerable, wonderful HR10 has a shelf life (and knowing the only DTV option is completely unacceptable). I just hope that mine last until something better comes along, 'cause for me, the HR20 just aint the answer.


+1

Some of my wishes:

1. I wish HDMI worked right on the HR20. (A Tivo Series 3, HR10, and Media Center PC all work great with my setup - not the HR20.)
2. I wish the HR20 would auto-backup after fast forward. (Yes, a Tivo patent - license it!)
3. I wish the FF/RW operations showed video reliably.
4. I wish I could send video from one HR20 to another

These are just a few - and are things that work perfectly on the HR10.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

ebockelman said:


> ...
> 4. I wish I could send video from one HR20 to another
> ...


How is this done on the HR10? With a MRV hack?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I'm jealous as well. I guess things have improved since I had mine in January. I had to send it back and fix my HR10. If a DVR doesn't record what's in its To Do list, what's the point? Has this problem actually been resolved?


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## Maurice (Jul 19, 1999)

In my system HDMI works without a problem. I have a Denon AVR with three HDMI inputs that goes to the plasma via HDMI. On HDMI1 I have the HR-10-250 and on HDMI2 I have the HR20. 

I have only had the HR20 a few days - but so far it has not failed to record anything in the todo list.

I agree - I too wish the HR20 would auto-backup after fast forward and that it would have dual buffers.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RE: Auto-backup

As noted this is a Tivo patent but you can get similar results by doing the following:

When coming out of a FFW instead of hitting play, hit replay/jump back button. This will jump you back about 6 seconds. If it wasn't enough just hit the button again.
I can FFW2 with 1-2 jump backs with ease and it functions similar to the Tivo autocorrection.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

Maurice said:


> Ability to view the guide, menu, etc. when you are watching a recorded program, with a small TV box in the upper corner, similar to PIP


I've seen a few others comment on this being a something that makes the HR20 better then the HR10, but IMO what's the points of continuing to watch the program (on a smaller screen) while surfing the guide when you could just pause the program while surfing the guide? It's like when people used to brag about how the DISH Network DVRs did PIP -- again wathcing two showing at the same time seem pointless when you can record shows and simply watch what you want when you want.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

Maurice said:


> The built in 30 second skip that shows what you are skipping.


I thought the point of skipping it was because you didn't want to see it!?!  Seriously, I would think showing you what is being skipped would only make the skip take longer -- which seems like a bad thing to me.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

STL said:


> I've seen a few others comment on this being a something that makes the HR20 better then the HR10, but IMO what's the points of continuing to watch the program (on a smaller screen) while surfing the guide when you could just pause the program while surfing the guide? It's like when people used to brag about how the DISH Network DVRs did PIP -- again wathcing two showing at the same time seem pointless when you can record shows and simply watch what you want when you want.


Ever been in the middle of watching a TiVo recording and wonder about something on later that night and say to yourself, "I'll have to remember to check into that when I'm done with this", but you forget? I have and the seconds I'm out of full screen mode aren't as annoying as having to exit the recording and then resume.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

I'm really happy with my HR20 also. I've never had any troubles. I had TiVos. Don't miss the TiVos one bit.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Maurice said:


> In my system HDMI works without a problem. I have a Denon AVR with three HDMI inputs that goes to the plasma via HDMI. On HDMI1 I have the HR-10-250 and on HDMI2 I have the HR20.
> 
> I have only had the HR20 a few days - but so far it has not failed to record anything in the todo list.
> 
> I agree - I too wish the HR20 would auto-backup after fast forward and that it would have dual buffers.


There were issues with a fairly high percentage of defective HDMI outputs on the early HR10's.

I also wish there were a way with the HR 20 not to have the "live TV" window going in the corner of the screen when the list is on. I'm thinking of a couple options:

1. Adjust the settings in my Harmony remote that brings up the list then pauses the Live TV window. That way I'd definitely avoid any audio and it would be easier to avoid looking at the window in the corner than at the picture on the entire screen. On my Harmony that controls my HR10, I have it bring up the now playing list, but that of course has no live TV window.

2. setting up my parental controls so that I have to put in a code for pretty much everything. I'd have to test it, but I believe that the HR20 makes you put in the code every time you start a show, even if you had entered it for the show you just finished. So maybe it makes you put in the code when it switches to Live TV. Of course, that would get annoying and I would have to tell my kids the code and therefore wouldn't be able to block them from watching anything.


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## Maurice (Jul 19, 1999)

The point I wanted to make is that the HR20 was not as bad as I expected after reading some posts, on the contrary, in most instances is a very good product, quite acceptable as a high end DVR. I don't think it is better than TiVo but I also do not think it is worst. My message is not a "Dump on TiVo".

TiVo has great features that I like, and so does the HR20. Both had and have some problems, but in general both do a good job of finding, recording and viewing HD programs from a DirecTV source.

What seems to be a fact is that there will be no TiVo device for DirecTV for now. So if you want locals via SAT on HD and the additional HD channels on MPEG4 - the only alternative is the HR20 and successors. Is it the best alternative for everyone? Probably not. For me it turned out to be a very acceptable alternative.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

STL said:


> I've seen a few others comment on this being a something that makes the HR20 better then the HR10, but IMO what's the points of continuing to watch the program (on a smaller screen) while surfing the guide when you could just pause the program while surfing the guide? It's like when people used to brag about how the DISH Network DVRs did PIP -- again wathcing two showing at the same time seem pointless when you can record shows and simply watch what you want when you want.


I like the picture-in-picture so that I can surf the channel list while commercials are showing on something I'm watching live. I know when the show starts again so I can stop surfing and go back to watching.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Stanley Rohner said:


> I'm really happy with my HR20 also. I've never had any troubles. I had TiVos. Don't miss the TiVos one bit.


I still have two HR10's to go along with my two HR20's. I have to say I thought I'd miss the TiVo features, but for the most part I don't have much of a preference either way. The advance-to-tick-mark feature works much better on the TiVo, that's about the only thing that bugs me on a frequent basis. Other than that, it's six of one, half-dozen of the other. Well, I did expand my hard drive capacity in my HR10's so there's a reason I won't part with MY particular units until they die. They actually offered to let me swap them but I turned them down for that reason. I'd also have to replace two of my multiswitches to get all the HD channels and wouldn't be able to run my OTA signal to anywhere in my house other than my basement.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

hiker said:


> How is this done on the HR10? With a MRV hack?


MRV, no. HME and some hacking, yes. Google movieloader.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Maurice said:


> The point I wanted to make is that the HR20 was not as bad as I expected after reading some posts, on the contrary, in most instances is a very good product, quite acceptable as a high end DVR. I don't think it is better than TiVo but I also do not think it is worst. My message is not a "Dump on TiVo".


I personally didn't interpret it as such.

I think some folks are more open to different DVR platforms and some will be staunch supporters of only one. I've been using TiVos, both integrated and standalone, for six and half years now. It's a great platform, but I don't wish to limit myself to one. And I have to say there are features of TiVo that I can take or leave and some I just don't care for, like "Suggestions". Others will find those same features indispensable. But, to this point in time, I've found things in the other platforms that I like.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

Maurice said:


> In my system HDMI works without a problem. I have a Denon AVR with three HDMI inputs that goes to the plasma via HDMI. On HDMI1 I have the HR-10-250 and on HDMI2 I have the HR20.
> 
> I have only had the HR20 a few days - but so far it has not failed to record anything in the todo list.
> 
> I agree - I too wish the HR20 would auto-backup after fast forward and that it would have dual buffers.


You are lucky. The HR20 is the only HDMI device I own that doesn't work with my setup.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

bidger said:


> Ever been in the middle of watching a TiVo recording and wonder about something on later that night and say to yourself, "I'll have to remember to check into that when I'm done with this", but you forget? I have and the seconds I'm out of full screen mode aren't as annoying as having to exit the recording and then resume.


Nope, I just use the pause button then hit the guide button. I guess I just don't get the point of not pausing when averting your attention elsewhere -- I thought that was one of the main purposes of a DVR.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> I like the picture-in-picture so that I can surf the channel list while commercials are showing on something I'm watching live. I know when the show starts again so I can stop surfing and go back to watching.


I guess I don't have that "need" because I don't watch things live.  Even if I did, why not pause the show, take a look at the guide or surf, then start playing the show when done looking -- then skip the commercials to catch back up with live. It seems silly to me to just surf on "their" terms (only during commercials) when you have a DVR.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

STL said:


> I thought the point of skipping it was because you didn't want to see it!?!  Seriously, I would think showing you what is being skipped would only make the skip take longer -- which seems like a bad thing to me.


With the 30 second slip, think ...FF on a DVD. I don't like it very much, and it doesn't work all that well.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

So the 30s slip takes a few seconds. Can you hit it 6 times quickly so that it slips 3 minutes or do you have to wait for each slip to complete?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

JimSpence said:


> So the 30s slip takes a few seconds. Can you hit it 6 times quickly so that it slips 3 minutes or do you have to wait for each slip to complete?


You can stack as many of them as you want. So say hit it 6 times and if the show starts early hit replay/jump back and if it didn't go back enough hit it again until it does (and actually you can stack the jump backs now too, in the latest beta anyway).


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## Maurice (Jul 19, 1999)

Yes - you can hit the slip 6 times at the time. 
Does it at 30X, so it would take 6 seconds. 

It is not so bad. - The TiVo backdoor skip is slightly better - but this one is built in and does not reset when rebooted.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Maurice said:


> RF remote. Not used this yet  but built in (I use the Harmony)


Does this work right out of the box, or is there some special equipment you need to add?


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## Maurice (Jul 19, 1999)

The remote is RF and so is the HR20. In setup, you choose.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Maurice said:


> Yes - you can hit the slip 6 times at the time.
> Does it at 30X, so it would take 6 seconds.
> 
> It is not so bad. - The TiVo backdoor skip is slightly better - but this one is built in and does not reset when rebooted.


I think it's a "slip" instead of a "skip" to (try to) avoid the wrath of the advertising industry.

As Maurice says, it's really quite useful. I usually hit the button 4 - 6 times in rapid succession. Each press of the button will append an additional 30 seconds to the "slip". It's essentially a self-timing FF at about 30X.

My experience is almost identical to the OP. For the new HD locals and other HD content D* will soon be adding, the HR20 is the only DVR available that you can use to record it.

I bought 3 GXCEBOT's shortly after they were introduced. I've always loved my DirecTiVos.

However, if you can get past the automatic "if it's not a TiVo, it must suck" bias, and actually evaluate the unit with an open mind, it's not a bad box, by any means.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

Yes you can hit it multiple times and it will go through all of them. It shows you a number in the corner with how many times you hit it.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> However, if you can get past the automatic "if it's not a TiVo, it must suck" bias, and actually evaluate the unit with an open mind, it's not a bad box, by any means.


I agree with this, except for one thing, the dual live buffers. This is such a hangup for me. I use this feature ALL, I mean ALL the time, whether it's sports or anything else. This is especially true when giving the wife face time and watching TV with her. I just set what I feel like watching, on the other tuner and flip to it and rewind, during commercials, of her program. 

Yea, I can get around this hangup, on the HR20 by actually recording the 2 programs, but it's such a waste of time and space, especially if I feel like moving onto something else. Then I'd have to cancel the recording(s) and delete them and start recording something else.

If they would just add this feature, I'd have no issues at all in switching. As it stands now, I will stick with the HD Tivo, till they pry it away from me.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

I like my HR10's a lot but the dual live buffers aren't the overriding feature. What is going to make it increasing difficult in resisting to switch over to the HR20 is all the new HD programming coming soon.
DIRECTV Adds New HD Channels for Fall


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Chuck_IV said:


> especially if I feel like moving onto something else. Then I'd have to cancel the recording(s) and delete them and start recording something else.


Just a quick shortcut for you. If you are watching something that you are also recording (live or delayed) you can just hit the stop button and you are presented with a popup, one of the options is to Stop and Delete. Thus it stops the recording and deletes it for you and dumps you back to live TV all in one step. Saves quite a few steps. Once you get to your new program then you can hit the record button should you choose to.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

And why doesn't the new box have dual live buffers?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

They were missing a certain 'part.....'


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

On DirecTiVo's, if I'm interested in two shows that I'm watching "nearly live" (two football games would be a good example), I almost always _record them both anyway_ so that my buffer becomes the length of the show, rather than just 30 minutes.

Of course, with the TiVo based units, switching back and forth between these two recordings, as long as they both have not ended in real time, requires only a single push of the down arrow, as opposed to a bit of a dance that's required on the HR20.

But as an owner of both, I can say that each box has a few things that it has implemented better than the other, and the HR20 is, overall, an entirely decent machine.

On average, considering everything, it's close to a tie. (IMHO, of course.)


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Complaining about a lack of dual live buffers seems a bit silly to me when you could just park 2 HR20's on your shelf, use picture in picture and see both shows at the same time.

It's a cool feature but you can easily work around it.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Yeah, the wife would just love that simplistic approach.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Think I will stick with dual buffers for now.


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## old_school_blue (Sep 25, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Complaining about a lack of dual live buffers seems a bit silly to me when you could just park 2 HR20's on your shelf, use picture in picture and see both shows at the same time.


I like this solution. Can they both work without interference from the remote controls? Can one remote operate each box individually?


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

bidger said:


> The Lifetime is on your account, DG, if you bought it for a DirecTV with TiVo, not the standalone TiVos. You just have to make sure you activate any new DVRs _before_ you deactivate the DVR you purchased lifetime on.


This isn't necessary at all. Once you have TiVo Lifetime DVR service, you are free to deactivate and not lose it. You merely have to reactivate your service with the same name and at the same address and they will reinstate it. You just need to tell the CSR that you have Lifetime DVR when you do this.


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

old_school_blue said:


> I like this solution. Can they both work without interference from the remote controls? Can one remote operate each box individually?


Don't forget you also get to pay the monthly mirroring fee for the 2nd HR20. That can add up to a LOT of money for dual buffers--not to mention buying the 2nd HR20!


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## SD493 (Aug 16, 2003)

hiker said:


> I like my HR10's a lot but the dual live buffers aren't the overriding feature. What is going to make it increasing difficult in resisting to switch over to the HR20 is all the new HD programming coming soon.
> DIRECTV Adds New HD Channels for Fall


I have had a HD Tivo since shortly after they came out, but, there is no option other than to switch to the HR20 (that's really not an option if you want the channels) if I want the new HD channels D* will be rolling out. Do ya'll feel that now is a good time to get the HR20 and new dish and avoid the rush and possible delays when D* begins rolling out the new HD channels?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

SD493 said:


> I have had a HD Tivo since shortly after they came out, but, their is no option other than to swith to the HR20 if I want the new HD channels D* will be rolling out. Do ya'll feel that now is a good time to get the HR20 and new dish and avoid the rush and possible delays when D* begins rolling out the new HD channels?


They seem to be dealing on them now, and there's no reason why you can't keep your HR10 and add the HR20. That's what I'm planning to do. I'll use the HR20 for the MPEG-4 channels and I'll use the HR10 for OTA and MPEG-2.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Just one note on the 30 second skip. With Tivo, (when watching HD shows) it used to be fairly easy to see when you were back into the show because it would be back at wide screen. However, there are more and more HD commercials being aired so I find myself having a harder time judging when the show is is back on. I'm starting to go back to the old FF skip method, so the HR20's 30 second slip is looking better and better (IMO).


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

I got the HR20 on May 10th in order to get the HD locals via satellite (and in anticipation of the new HD channels coming out in MPEG4 later this year). We have a roof antenna, but winds this spring have made trying to view HD locals very frustrating at times. I kept my HR10-250 as my primary receiver. Got credits on my bill so it basically only cost me $29.99, so I'm not complaining on price.

We haven't recorded a whole lot on the HR20 (since there's not much on right now with all network shows done for the season). However, one thing I noticed last week while watching 24 as it was being recorded was quite odd. Sound was off drastically and the picture appeared to be very jumpy. Very annoying. Went over to the Tivo and watched the first hour, then switched to Heroes while recording 2nd hour on the HR20. When I went to watch the recording the next night, the sound was in sync and the picture was not jumpy. Anyone else experience something like this while watching as it records? And, no, I'm not using HDMI at all. Just standard cables to the home theater receiver.

Second thing I find I don't like is the excessive delay when changing channels on the HR20. Even if I add an 0 or 00 at the beginning to give it a 4 digit number, it's extremely slow changing channels. Reminds me a lot of my 1st generation DirecTV receivers. Kind of going backwards if you ask me. Also, many times, even when the new channel appears on the display, the HR20 doesn't change channels. Anyone experience this problem?

As to locking up, it's done that a couple of times while watching something live. No problems with recordings, but then, I have recorded probably less than 10 things on it so far. Good thing is when it locks up, it does reboot much faster than the Tivo does.

The fast-forward options aren't that great IMHO. I much prefer the trademarked Tivo "jump back" thing over the 30-second slip. As well as the tick mark jump that Tivo does so smoothly.

So for now, I'll keep my Tivo as the primary viewing/recording device. Just use the HR20 if our antenna is providing a stable OTA picture on the locals.

Cheryl


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

speedcouch said:


> Second thing I find I don't like is the excessive delay when changing channels on the HR20. Even if I add an 0 or 00 at the beginning to give it a 4 digit number, it's extremely slow changing channels. Reminds me a lot of my 1st generation DirecTV receivers.


Do you have Native Resolution enabled? That will slow it down if you're going from HDNet (1080i) to ESPN-HD (720p) or a SD channel.

I also hit Enter after I key in the channel number to speed up the change.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Probably want to stop over to DBSTalk for help with the HR20. But here are some answers.



speedcouch said:


> IHowever, one thing I noticed last week while watching 24 as it was being recorded was quite odd. Sound was off drastically and the picture appeared to be very jumpy. Very annoying. Went over to the Tivo and watched the first hour, then switched to Heroes while recording 2nd hour on the HR20. When I went to watch the recording the next night, the sound was in sync and the picture was not jumpy. Anyone else experience something like this while watching as it records?


This is a bug that hits sometimes if you have used paused or rewound live TV and have FFW back to catch up to live. Basically you can just hit the jump back/replay button once or twice or RRW for a couple seconds. Basically get a few seconds behind live and you'll be fine. It is something the development team has been working on but hasn't got nailed down. Basically it's easy to avoid so it doesn't annoy me. If I'm catching up to live and actually do so I hit replay twice and I never see the problem.



> Second thing I find I don't like is the excessive delay when changing channels on the HR20. Even if I add an 0 or 00 at the beginning to give it a 4 digit number, it's extremely slow changing channels. Reminds me a lot of my 1st generation DirecTV receivers. Kind of going backwards if you ask me. Also, many times, even when the new channel appears on the display, the HR20 doesn't change channels. Anyone experience this problem?


There is the above suggestion about native mode but more sounds like just punching in the numbers. Basically hit enter after the channel number and it will change immediately. Not a big deal to me since I've been doing it since I got my first Tivo so it's second hand. But then I rarely actually tune directly to a channel, I prefer the mini-guide.



> The fast-forward options aren't that great IMHO. I much prefer the trademarked Tivo "jump back" thing over the 30-second slip. As well as the tick mark jump that Tivo does so smoothly.


You can simulate the Tivo autocorrection by pushing replay/jump back instead of play coming out of a FFW or queued up 30 sec slips.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

bidger said:


> Do you have Native Resolution enabled? That will slow it down if you're going from HDNet (1080i) to ESPN-HD (720p) or a SD channel.


Nope.



bidger said:


> I also hit Enter after I key in the channel number to speed up the change.


I think I tried that the first week I had it, but it didn't seem to help, so I stopped using it. Will try that again.

Thanks!
Cheryl


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

While I LOVE my Tivo I definitely see an HR20 in my future given all the new HD programming which the Tivo will be unable to view.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> While I LOVE my Tivo I definitely see an HR20 in my future given all the new HD programming which the Tivo will be unable to view.


+1


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

-1


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

I have the Hr20 on one TV and the Hr10 on the other. I like the Hr20 but I would rank it slightly below the Hr10 due to DLB and it's still a little less reliable (it occasionally freezes and doesn't automatically reboot). However you guys missed the one feature I really like that the Hr20 has that the Hr10 doesn't. Season pass and recording defaults. Basically you change the season pass defaults to what you want (mine is keep all, only first run and no padding) and then every time you set up a new season pass you just have to hit record twice in the guide and it's good to go. With the Tivo you always had to go in to change the options to first run only. This way is nice and quick while setting up.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Where's the moderator? Not only is this discussion not supposed to be on this board, this thread has more DTV astroturf in it than Three Rivers Stadium did in 1975.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

speedcouch said:


> Second thing I find I don't like is the excessive delay when changing channels on the HR20. Even if I add an 0 or 00 at the beginning to give it a 4 digit number, it's extremely slow changing channels. Reminds me a lot of my 1st generation DirecTV receivers. Kind of going backwards if you ask me. Also, many times, even when the new channel appears on the display, the HR20 doesn't change channels. Anyone experience this problem?


What I love about the changing channel delay on the HR20 is ...it gives me an opportunity to clip my toenails while channel surfing.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I used to make sandwiches waiting for the HR10 to confirm a recording.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

TyroneShoes said:


> Where's the moderator? Not only is this discussion not supposed to be on this board, this thread has more DTV astroturf in it than Three Rivers Stadium did in 1975.


So you don't think threads comparing a TiVo and a non-TiVo DVR are appropriate on a TiVo forum?  Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Also what does DTV astroturf mean?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

bidger said:


> I used to make sandwiches waiting for the HR10 to confirm a recording.


LOL I could run to the store and back while waiting for my season pass manager to update.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bidger said:


> I used to make sandwiches waiting for the HR10 to confirm a recording.


Key words being "used to." Now it's quick with 6.3d, meanwhile _nothing _ has been done about the HR20 channel changing dilemma.

And it still records unwatchable programs on a fairly consistant basis  . Indeed, it's the future with MPEG4 ....but the fact that the R15 still has problems that have _never_ been addressed concerns me.

Time will tell...


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

You're comparing an R15 (NDS) to HR20 (DIRECTV). The software is developed by two different groups.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

tfederov said:


> You're comparing an R15 (NDS) to HR20 (DIRECTV). The software is developed by two different groups.


I've been using the HR20 for months now and I completely hate it.

my biggest gripes:

1) It records shows (using the auto-record search function) on channels I don't get. About half the time I come home and turn the TV on, something is recording on a channel I don't receive, so I have to stop and delete it all the time

2) You can't disable the PIG feature. So when I come home and a sporting event is recording, I have no way to not see it when I turn on the TV and navigate to the LIST to watch it (or when a show is over, not see/hear what is recording live at the time)

3) Doesn't tell you why it won't record something. I have like 3 SP's for shows that it records "when it feels like it"

4) The search feature completely sucks. I posted a screen shot a few weeks ago on dbstalk showing my "Detroit Pistons" search showing 0 results - so it didn't record that night's game - except it was also on my TV live with the guide saying "Detroit Pistons @ Chicago Bulls". I deleted the search and re-added it with just "Pistons" and still got 0 results. All while the game was on Live TV.

Those are just a sample of my gripes. Hopefully one day these will all get fixed and I can get on with my little DVR life. So for now I use the HR20 for locals and MPEG4 only stuff, and my HR10-250 for everything else.

p.s. Tony - how's the Kool-Aid taste?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Why don't you all just give up and come over to the joy that is the S3? It's what any Tivo Lover has been waiting for.

Yes, you have to give in to the cable companies, but frankly most of them have far better HD offerings than DirecTV. And if you're lucky enough to have FIOS TV, you get even better.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

AbMagFab, what are the Comcast offerings in your area? And how does the cost compare to Directv?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

tfederov said:


> You're comparing an R15 (NDS) to HR20 (DIRECTV). The software is developed by two different groups.


I'm aware of that ...but they are both products of D*, and ultimately it is the responsibility of D* to see that what they ship to their customers works properly, no matter the sw developer.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

scottjf8 said:


> 2) You can't disable the PIG feature. So when I come home and a sporting event is recording, I have no way to not see it when I turn on the TV and navigate to the LIST to watch it (or when a show is over, not see/hear what is recording live at the time)


It's an imperfect workaround, but I hit pause before I turn on the TV. You won't hear anything and it's easier to avert your eyes away from a still image than it is with a moving one.

*edit* I must be getting senile. I'm repeating myself within the same thread.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> Why don't you all just give up and come over to the joy that is the S3? It's what any Tivo Lover has been waiting for.
> 
> Yes, you have to give in to the cable companies, but frankly most of them have far better HD offerings than DirecTV. And if you're lucky enough to have FIOS TV, you get even better.


Until cable goes to Switched Video making the cable card (and thus the S3) obsolete.


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## kido (Aug 17, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Until cable goes to Switched Video making the cable card (and thus the S3) obsolete.


July 1, 2007 the integration ban from the FCC goes into effect. The purpose of this ban is to encourage competition and allow access to digital cable systems for 3rd party equipment makers. The cable companies have been claiming that they have a better solution "just around the corner" for years now and have gotten multiple extensions, but the FCC has finally decided that enough is enough. The cable companies may go Switched Video in order to prevent access to 3rd party solutions, but this action is against the stated goals of the FCC and they will not be able to do this without consequence.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

kido said:


> July 1, 2007 the integration ban from the FCC goes into effect. The purpose of this ban is to encourage competition and allow access to digital cable systems for 3rd party equipment makers. The cable companies have been claiming that they have a better solution "just around the corner" for years now and have gotten multiple extensions, but the FCC has finally decided that enough is enough. The cable companies may go Switched Video in order to prevent access to 3rd party solutions, but this action is against the stated goals of the FCC and they will not be able to do this without consequence.


Just FYI that Time Warner already announced a couple months ago that they plan to start rolling out Switched Video nationwide starting in January 2008 (it's been testing for months now). FCC didn't bat an eye at it so I don't think they care or it doesn't matter to them.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Why don't you all just give up and come over to the joy that is the S3? It's what any Tivo Lover has been waiting for.
> 
> Yes, you have to give in to the cable companies, but frankly most of them have far better HD offerings than DirecTV. And if you're lucky enough to have FIOS TV, you get even better.


I'm still considering this, but things working against this option:
1. SDV
2. Cable CO charging double fee for two cards considering them each a separte device even though they are in one machine.
3. D will have WAY more HD than cable.
4. It's basically in cables interest to not work with the S3. It's in D's interest to make the HR20 work

Now, if the S3 could do MRV I might have to forget about all of that.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

scottjf8 said:


> I've been using the HR20 for months now and I completely hate it.
> 
> my biggest gripes:
> 
> 2) You can't disable the PIG feature. So when I come home and a sporting event is recording, I have no way to not see it when I turn on the TV and navigate to the LIST to watch it (or when a show is over, not see/hear what is recording live at the time)


Didn't know about that one. kinda sucks, even with the proposed workaround.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sirshagg said:


> Didn't know about that one. kinda sucks, even with the proposed workaround.


I hit the mute button and bring up the list. Then turn the TV on. Put my hand up so I can't see the upper right corner and start playing the sporting event. Very similar to what I would do on a Tivo other then the hand blocking thing. Minor inconvenience for me as I really like the Pic in Guide all other times.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

kido said:


> ...The cable companies may go Switched Video in order to prevent access to 3rd party solutions, but this action is against the stated goals of the FCC and they will not be able to do this without consequence.


I laughed so hard I fell out of my chair. That's too funny.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> I hit the mute button and bring up the list. Then turn the TV on. Put my hand up so I can't see the upper right corner and start playing the sporting event. Very similar to what I would do on a Tivo other then the hand blocking thing. Minor inconvenience for me as I really like the Pic in Guide all other times.


Yeah very similar, except I just hit the Tivo button before turning the TV on.. 

1 step > 4 steps


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Why don't you all just give up and come over to the joy that is the S3? It's what any Tivo Lover has been waiting for.
> 
> Yes, you have to give in to the cable companies, but frankly most of them have far better HD offerings than DirecTV. And if you're lucky enough to have FIOS TV, you get even better.


once NFL Sunday Ticket is on cable, I'm switching for sure.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Sirshagg said:


> Didn't know about that one. kinda sucks, even with the proposed workaround.


We keep duct tape and a large piece of poster board near the TV. I simply tape the poster board over the screen, and power up while quickly hitting the mute button ....viola ...no worries about seeing the game-score in the PiG.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Why don't you all just give up and come over to the joy that is the S3? It's what any Tivo Lover has been waiting for.
> 
> Yes, you have to give in to the cable companies, but frankly most of them have far better HD offerings than DirecTV. And if you're lucky enough to have FIOS TV, you get even better.


My cable company doesn't offer HD. Yep, no HD. I couldn't believe it either.


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

scottjf8 said:


> Tony - how's the Kool-Aid taste?


Yummy!


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

scottjf8 said:


> Yeah very similar, except I just hit the Tivo button before turning the TV on..
> 
> 1 step > 4 steps


Oh, I agree. But I will say that the picture in guide has been a top feature request on the Tivo for a long time. I remember requests for it 5-6 years ago. So DirecTV put it on their new DVR. But you can't make everyone happy.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

scottjf8 said:


> once NFL Sunday Ticket is on cable, I'm switching for sure.


You'll be waiting a looooong time.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I'm giving the HR20 another chance. From what I've been reading they've made great strides with the software since December. I called today and the installer will be here on Monday. I'm still keeping my HR10 so that I'll have 4 available tuners. That will help a lot when the fall season starts up.


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## tbh999 (Aug 29, 2001)

Well, I've had my HR20-100s for one week now.

What I like:

Picture In Guide -- Some People Don't like it...I do
Picture Quality -- With the exact same cables and resolution settings the picture quality is much better than my HR10-250
Sound Quality -- I could never get the optical output to work right between my HR10 and my McIntosh stereo - I went through two HR10, several posts on this forum and finally gave-up on getting it to work.)
Menu Speed
Bar graph showing remaining storage
The Price -- ~$21 + 48 month commitment

What I don't like:

The GUI
The GUI
The GUI -- The interface is awkward at best and not very intuitive.
Stability -- Had to reboot this morning. The Unit said that both tuners were recording...They weren't (actually neither were) but who cares, I was trying to watch the news that was already recorded.
I miss the TiVo fast forward
The network access is set-up to work with Intel's Viiv, well I, 1) have an AMD PC (not intel) and 2) have all of my music and pictures stored on a Terabyte Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ network attached storage (NAS) unit. I can stream my music to other media players and PC but not to the HR20.
All-in-all, the HR20 is just "O.K.", the TiVo software excellent, the DirecTV software is adequate (however, based on picture & sound quality, and menu speed it appears that the DirecTV _hardware_ is the winner). That being said, I will be keeping the HR20, it's the only way of getting the new DirecTV HD channels, and the picture and sound quality is much better that that from my HR10.

Edit
_*Oops, that should be ~$21 + 24 month commitment*_


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

tbh999 said:


> ...
> The Price -- ~$21 + 48 month commitment
> ...


48 months? Wow, I thought it was 24 months.


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## Indiana627 (Jan 24, 2003)

tbh999 said:


> I miss the TiVo fast forward


Same here. My HR20-100 was installed on Sunday. The entire trickplay feature (FF, RW) on the HR20 still needs improvement. I _really_ miss the HR10's automatic jump back when coming out of FF. Some say hitting the HR20 jump back button instead of play will work the same but I still end up having to hit it once or twice more to get the playback to where I want it.

And I also miss the dual live buffers (DLB).

The speed is definitely nice. And PQ does seem better with the exact same cables.


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## jon777 (May 30, 2002)

Indiana627 said:


> Same here. My HR20-100 was installed on Sunday. The entire trickplay feature (FF, RW) on the HR20 still needs improvement. I _really_ miss the HR10's automatic jump back when coming out of FF. Some say hitting the HR20 jump back button instead of play will work the same but I still end up having to hit it once or twice more to get the playback to where I want it.
> 
> And I also miss the dual live buffers (DLB).
> 
> The speed is definitely nice. And PQ does seem better with the exact same cables.


Just "upgraded" this week. Agree that the PQ appears to be better (both using HDMI) with the HR20. Not a true side by side comparison, but just seems better.

As you mention, DLB and the FF/RW jump back are the two biggies i'll miss with the new box. I can get used to the new user interface, and can deal with most of the others. A necessary switch for me to get my RSNs (and hopefully more new programming in 2H07!)

Still have my 2 SD DTiVo's to keep my TiVo fix...


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

tbh999 said:


> [*]The network access is set-up to work with Intel's Viiv, well I, 1) have an AMD PC (not intel) and 2) have all of my music and pictures stored on a Terabyte Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ network attached storage (NAS) unit. I can stream my music to other media players and PC but not to the HR20.[/list]


You should stop by DBSTalk. You can network and stream music and pics easily with Windows Media Player 11 or a couple 3rd party apps. Some guys have also got it working on a Mac. An Intel Viiv PC is not required, it's just the only setup actually supported by DirecTV if you called them up.


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## tbh999 (Aug 29, 2001)

The problem I'm having is that my music does not reside on a PC, it's on a NAS. I did this specifically so I don't have to leave my PC on 24/7 and it's been working well for several years. (However, I have recently upgraded my NAS to the Infrant unit).

My NAS supports several discovery and streaming services, including: UPnP, UPnP AV, Slimserver and Media Server (I'm at the office and do not have the complete list with me). The HR20 sees the NAS on the LAN, but does not see any of the music or photos. There may be an easy fix, but I haven't dug into it very deep yet, I'll just keep using my AudioTron for now.

_Sorry, this particular subject does not belong on the Tivo Community site (But I do think that the comparison between the HR10 and HR20 does...)_


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## tbh999 (Aug 29, 2001)

hiker said:


> 48 months? Wow, I thought it was 24 months.


Oops, my bad, I'm and engineer so I'm not so good with math. Yes that is 24 months NOT 48...


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## cneubert (Aug 22, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Oh, I agree. But I will say that the picture in guide has been a top feature request on the Tivo for a long time. I remember requests for it 5-6 years ago. So DirecTV put it on their new DVR. But you can't make everyone happy.


Actually you CAN make everyone happy. All they need is to make it a user-selectable feature.


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