# Tuning resolver (SDV dongle) not out until 1Q 2009!



## s3victim (Oct 21, 2007)

So says Time Warner Cable. Also all new HD channels are and will be SDV. Already I only get about 4 of the 15 HD channels I pay for!  Does anyone care but me? I see only infrequent posts to old threads.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Who said this? A Time Warner customer service rep? How would they know when the tuning resolver will be out? That would be like calling TiVo and asking with the TiVo Series4 will be out.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Are they under any obligation to bring it out at all?

I would expect the priority of this project to be far behind revenue generating work.

Al


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

There are many variables in play here:
* When will Mot have their hardware ready
* When will SA have their hardware ready
* When will TiVo have their software support ready
* How much integration time will be needed
* Test cycles with possible new software builds for fixes
* CableLabs approval cycles

All in all, I would say the original goal of having it in Q1 or Q2 of 2008 would be awfully aggressive. Beyond that, who knows.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

acvthree said:


> I would expect the priority of this project to be far behind revenue generating work.


How is it not revenue generating?

Customer with tuning resolver = happy, continues to pay bill
Customer without tuning resolver = cancels, pays nothing

Granted, they may too short-sighted to see it that way.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> How is it not revenue generating?
> 
> Customer with tuning resolver = happy, continues to pay bill
> Customer without tuning resolver = cancels, pays nothing
> ...


The cost of the tuning resolvers at such low quantities will be high. The MSOs will need to practically give them away or risk a backlash. The number of happy campers is very small in the grand scheme of things.

The numbers just don't add up to be doing this for profit motives.


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## Lupin (Apr 3, 2007)

Id pay I reckon $100 tops for one.


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## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

Don't believe anything that a CSR says.

-Mike


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> How is it not revenue generating?
> 
> Customer with tuning resolver = happy, continues to pay bill
> Customer without tuning resolver = cancels, pays nothing
> ...


My cynical take on it is:

Customer without tuning resolver --> more likely to get cable companies DVR, which brings them more revenue than a customer with a TiVo box.

Which leads me to believe that TiVo -really- needs to go the extra mile to do what they can to make sure the Tuning Resolver sees the light of day before more and more cable systems move to SDV.

I say this as someone who just bought two TiVo HD units and activated them with long term commitments to be used on a Comcast system that (to date) doesn't use SDV, but could certainly move to SDV without asking for my thoughts on the matter.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

>>>Customer without tuning resolver --> more likely to get cable companies DVR,

That would be my take for the primary reasoning.

Along with that, the few that are left after the first group moves to the simpler solution of the cable company DVR, they get rid of a tiny, vocal, hard to please, group of unwanted customers.

It's a win/win situation.

Al


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

JohnnyO said:


> My cynical take on it is:
> 
> Customer without tuning resolver --> more likely to get cable companies DVR, which brings them more revenue than a customer with a TiVo box.


Revenue and profit are not the same thing. Depending on their pricing, most CATV companies make only a very small profit, if any at all, on leased DVRs.


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## mike_camden (Dec 11, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> Revenue and profit are not the same thing. Depending on their pricing, most CATV companies make only a very small profit, if any at all, on leased DVRs.


They may not make much profit from the lease of DVRs; however, as I understand it, they do make quite a bit of profit from PPV and On Demand, neither or which is available with a 3rd party cable card device such as Tivo. Given that they are taking a hit to these profit centers when customer opt out of their supplied boxes, I can see the cable companies as having a serious motive to disuade customers from using Tivos.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

s3victim said:


> Already I only get about 4 of the 15 HD channels I pay for!


If you're not getting most of the channels you're paying for, you should drop that tier.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

s3victim said:


> So says Time Warner Cable.


Do you have a legit source you can point us to...?


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## JTYoung1 (Aug 13, 2006)

I'd sooner go back to DirecTV and their DVR than use that POS the cable companies call a DVR.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

posts that the sdv resolver won't be available this year and everyone believes him? What a bunch of trusting people.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

People need to realize a "tuning resolver" is nothing more than a cablemodem. In theory, it's simple. All tivo need do is (a) add the necessary CAM drivers to talk to a cablemodem via usb (linux already supports this), and (b) add the "sdv client" application code to the system. In practice, however, there are a lot of little details. The first being, commonly available cablemodems aren't programmed to work in the DSG 38Mhz(?) band. (they should be cable of going that low, but I've never seen one try.) And the last one being the decade it takes to get anything past Cable Labs.

Wiring it all together can be a bigger mess... this introduces numerous extra steps to tuning a channel. And it takes some measure of cooperation from cable companies and their equipment vendors...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

hddude55 said:


> posts that the sdv resolver won't be available this year and everyone believes him? What a bunch of trusting people.


I don't think anyone believes him. But it would be nice to know the source.


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## davidjplatt (Aug 27, 2003)

Doesn't the FCC mandate that the cable company can't force you to use their reception equipment to the exclusion of other equipment?

Isn't that the reason that the cable companies have to provide the capability of cable cards?


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## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

davidjplatt said:


> Doesn't the FCC mandate that the cable company can't force you to use their reception equipment to the exclusion of other equipment?
> 
> Isn't that the reason that the cable companies have to provide the capability of cable cards?


The cable companies say that the mandate right now only covers one way cable. So, they took one way channels and turned them into on demand so that we are still expected to rent a box from them. And, I have complained to the FCC but the FCC didn't care.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

hddude55 said:


> posts that the sdv resolver won't be available this year and everyone believes him? What a bunch of trusting people.


Not saying I believe his information BUT I'm becoming skeptical the SDV solution will be widely available in the first half of 2008.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

cramer said:


> People need to realize a "tuning resolver" is nothing more than a cablemodem.


Uh, not really. Other than connecting through USB on one end and cable on the other, there is not much in common at all.

Look at the spec for the TR and you will see very little in common with a cable modem.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

>>>Not saying I believe his information BUT I'm becoming skeptical the SDV solution will be widely available in the first half of 2008.

I think a lot of people were skeptical from the very beginning.

Just publicly stating that the cable companies are "working" on an SDV solution was enough to cover them for any (not understandable to the normal customer) negative press. There is no legal or fiscal reason to deliver in a timely manner.

Al


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ah30k said:


> Look at the spec for the TR and you will see very little in common with a cable modem.


I agree. I think that poster is confused. Any 2-way cable device will have a QPSK or DOCSIS modem for transmission. Of course that doesn't mean the actual device is nothing more than a cablemodem. There is an abstraction layer that hides from TiVo the actual mechanisms. All TiVo sees is the tuning API, which has nothing to do with a cablemodem.

Now, they could have designed it so TiVo used a cablemodem and implemented the SDV client within TiVo code, but that is not what they chose to do.


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## dubluv (Mar 3, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> How is it not revenue generating?
> 
> Customer with tuning resolver = happy, continues to pay bill
> Customer without tuning resolver = cancels, pays nothing
> ...


exactly! plus, its not like they are the only act in town. fios keeps deploying, and i'm sure many now have the option to switch compared to only a short time ago. still not sure how fios deals with this, unless they don't use sdv.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fios doesn't use SDV, and ISTR that they've said they won't. On the other hand, they've made vague statements about switching everything to IPTV eventually...

Fios can afford to do without SDV because they've limited their analogs, and are totally eliminating them this year. (In bandwidth terms, one analog channel is worth at least two HD channels.)


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## Lupin (Apr 3, 2007)

While I personally believe SDV is an important feature for cable companies, I dont believe they should be allowed to roll it out till their is an alternative option to their DVRs since it effectively becomes a monopoly within what they provide. And also, its odd cause if only the FCC would let the cable companies drop Analog, they would be able to a lot more digital channels without worrying about SDV.


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## s3victim (Oct 21, 2007)

The source was one of the "technical gurus" at the office. I put quotes around that because that is not his title, but he knows a lot of behind the scenes info. I think Tivo just made the announcement of the tuning resolver to pacify us and hope we forget. BTW, my HD channels are not a Tier I pay extra for, just part of the basic package. I'd like to watch them. As soon as FIOS gets here I'm switching, or any other reasonable alternative to TWC.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Having represented an ISV assisting a Large Cable Provider headquartered in Philadelphia in software qualification, integration and benchmark testing, I can tell you that there is no way in hell that this is going to happen in 2008.

The product I was working on for the Cable Provider enabled them to get into a market that they were eager to enter- VOIP. And yet, they moved at a glacial speed. Cable Provider has negative incentive to get the Tuning Resolver out the door. Do the math.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

s3victim said:


> ... I think Tivo just made the announcement of the tuning resolver to pacify us and hope we forget...


I'm not sure why you continue posting this nonsense, but the "s3victim" screen name suggests you are here to mess with us. Before you post off the wall stuff like this thread please try to have some basis for your comments. It isn't likely that the many people who can't receive channels due to sdv are going to forget about it, but I'm sure you know that. I hope you are having fun. No one is laughing though.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

ah30k said:


> Uh, not really. Other than connecting through USB on one end and cable on the other, there is not much in common at all.
> 
> Look at the spec for the TR and you will see very little in common with a cable modem.


Concurring: since the resolver has to read the channel map off the cable and then provide it to the host, and know how to speak the SDV protocol to the head end, it is really more like a stripped-down set-top box (removing UI software and the A/V hardware and software, and adding the code to communicate with the host over the USB interface) than a modem.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

s3victim said:


> So says Time Warner Cable. Also all new HD channels are and will be SDV. Already I only get about 4 of the 15 HD channels I pay for!  Does anyone care but me?


No. I don't care. Nice choice of a screen name though, shows a positive attitude.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

s3victim said:


> The source was one of the "technical gurus" at the office. I put quotes around that because that is not his title, but he knows a lot of behind the scenes info. I think Tivo just made the announcement of the tuning resolver to pacify us and hope we forget. BTW, my HD channels are not a Tier I pay extra for, just part of the basic package. I'd like to watch them. As soon as FIOS gets here I'm switching, or any other reasonable alternative to TWC.


OK. So your source is a technical person at TW. Does he have direct involvement with the USB? If not, he's speculating just like anyone else.

And are you telling me that you would take the word of a TW employee over TiVo Pony? Pony may be off a bit on when something is going to be released but he has never lied to us.

Now let's get back to this name. S3victim. Are you a victim because you didn't research your product before purchase and now you have buyers remorse? Has the time to return your S3 expired?

If you are a victim perhaps you should consider a law suit. A class action law suit. That way perhaps you could make an attorney some money and you'll feel better about being a victim.

Or maybe you decided that you would just love to come in here and get as much notice as possible by selecting a name that would get everyone's attention. I'm kind of betting on that one.:up:

I hope you get FIOS soon. But wait. If you do that and your S3 works just fine then you wouldn't be a victim.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

My understanding is that each cable company provides their own based on a basic product that is provided by Motorola or SA.

The cable company would have to do some integration work, then beta testing, then there is the logistical work of getting it into their system so that it can be ordered.

TivoPony could be right for Tivo being ready for the gizmo.
TivoPony could be right that Mot and SA are ready.
TivoPony could even be right that most cable companies have theirs available.

He could then still be wrong about TW.

I agree that TivoPony has a great track record, but expecting that from one statement he was commiting that all the various parts are working for all the cable companies in the US is pretty high expectations.

Al


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

What did Pony say?


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## HawaiiTivoLover (May 4, 2005)

Is there any updated info from a legitimate source on the ETA of the tuning resolver?
S3 and TivoHD owners in Hawaii have been without all HD, and many Digital channels since the end of 2007 due to SDV. It sucks, no FIOS or OTA reception either.
Just hoping the original poster is wrong about the release date.
Aloha!


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## Lupin (Apr 3, 2007)

Wait, how is there no OTA in Hawaii? Are your local station just going to stop doing OTA broadcast come 2009? Or are they just doing digital but not HD. I havent heard of any places personally they have switched to Digital OTA and not HD. Im not even sure if it cost much at all to broadcast a HD feed along with Digital.


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## HawaiiTivoLover (May 4, 2005)

Lupin said:


> Wait, how is there no OTA in Hawaii? Are your local station just going to stop doing OTA broadcast come 2009? Or are they just doing digital but not HD. I havent heard of any places personally they have switched to Digital OTA and not HD. Im not even sure if it cost much at all to broadcast a HD feed along with Digital.


I should have clarified: in Hawaii, largely due to our mountainous topography only about 10% of the population receives signal OTA. I'm unfortunately in the 90% category.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

I have zero information on how Tivo is actually handling SDV. However, I know how cable systems work; and I know how SDV works. All the external box needs to do is be a DOCSIS tranceiver. There's no need to complicate matters by placing the SDV logic in the dongle. In fact, doing so is a massive mistake as it's a completely new critter that requires full cablelabs certification -- a process that takes years. The minor modifications to the _programming_ of a Motorola Surfboard to function as a DSG can be self-certified. Modifications to the tivo software -- integration of an SDV client -- can also be self-certified.

At any rate, I seriously doubt Tivo, Inc. is even remotely the roadblock holding things back. Cable companies are stupid-greedy well beyond explaination and logic. They only see the potential lose of stb rental fees (a tangable, real number they can see within their current revenues, even if it's 99% paranoia) while being completely blind to potential customer growth (because it's only a speculation.)


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

cramer said:


> I have zero information on how Tivo is actually handling SDV. However, I know how cable systems work; and I know how SDV works. All the external box needs to do is be a DOCSIS tranceiver. There's no need to complicate matters by placing the SDV logic in the dongle. *In fact, doing so is a massive mistake as it's a completely new critter that requires full cablelabs certification -- a process that takes years*. The minor modifications to the _programming_ of a Motorola Surfboard to function as a DSG can be self-certified. Modifications to the tivo software -- integration of an SDV client -- can also be self-certified.
> 
> At any rate, I seriously doubt Tivo, Inc. is even remotely the roadblock holding things back. Cable companies are stupid-greedy well beyond explaination and logic. They only see the potential lose of stb rental fees (a tangable, real number they can see within their current revenues, even if it's 99% paranoia) while being completely blind to potential customer growth (because it's only a speculation.)


Sounds good to me. Except S3/HD TiVo's apparently don't have the DOCSIS tranceiver. And the USB Dongle announcement was made last year and the availability was announced by second quarter. So I don't think your statement that this will take years because of cablelabs holds water.

However everything else you said is absolutely true.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

acvthree said:


> TivoPony could be right for Tivo being ready for the gizmo.
> TivoPony could be right that Mot and SA are ready.
> TivoPony could even be right that most cable companies have theirs available.
> 
> ...


ah30k's statement made me think. Now I'm not sure TiVoPony did say that or even if anyone at TiVo said that. I think so, but I don't have time to search.

I am absolutely sure however that I read it in engadgenet (sp?) and a couple of other reliable places on the net.

*Anyway the point was the OP came into the thread with unverified information and with a name that was obviously selected to invite trouble*.

While I wouldn't say he is a troll I will say he knew he was going to get some people upset so I kind of lit a little flame under him.


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## cab2 (Sep 17, 2004)

I sure do wish someone could say with authority, some news about where things stand. I guess that someone would be the major cable companies? Q2 2008 doesn't really give me a warm and fuzzy. We all know how timelines slip. Each solution will be slightly different between jurisdictions, right? Granted this thread was a bit of a bait, but it still got my blood simmering. I am sooooo close to switching from TWC and my beloved Tivo to D* because of the SDV issue. Apparently, TWC Austin TX is one of the largest SDV users in the country and it's making me an very unhappy camper. If I could light a fire under 'someone' I would but who? TWC, your about to lose me! There, does that help any? Nah, oh well, feels better for saying it.


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

cab2 said:


> I sure do wish someone could say with authority, some news about where things stand. I guess that someone would be the major cable companies?


It seems to me that although TiVo may not be creating the Tuning Resolver, they are the organization with the strongest interest in seeing it become available in a timely fashion, therefore, they need to be pushing for it to see the light of day soon.

In terms of percentages, some cable companies may lose a few subscribers to a satellite provider, but I would argue an equal or higher percentage of cable subscribers effected by SDV would just accept a cable company DVR, since it is less hassle. In that case, TiVo is the only one that loses.


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## weeds (Mar 7, 2008)

I had a Cox tech. at my house on the 18 to fix a problem. I asked him if he knew when the dongle would be available. He told me it had been pushed back to the last quater of this year.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

cramer said:


> There's no need to complicate matters by placing the SDV logic in the dongle.


Yes there is; to simplify and standardize the interface between the 3rd party STB (TiVo or other), and the tuning resolver, so the STB developer need only write one small bit of code to support SDV, rather than process the full SDV communication, and have to know how to configure itself and communicate with each system, or have a complex "middleware" system.

By having the "smarts" in the TR, it allows the cable provider to configure it for their system, and load their SDV interface software.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

cramer said:


> However, I know how cable systems work; and I know how SDV works. All the external box needs to do is be a DOCSIS tranceiver. There's no need to complicate matters by placing the SDV logic in the dongle. In fact, doing so is a massive mistake as it's a completely new critter that requires full cablelabs certification -- a process that takes years.


Regardless of whatever may make more sense, the resolver spec says that the SDV logic, as well as channel map logic, is in the resolver.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cramer said:


> I have zero information on how Tivo is actually handling SDV. However, I know how cable systems work; and I know how SDV works. All the external box needs to do is be a DOCSIS tranceiver. There's no need to complicate matters by placing the SDV logic in the dongle. In fact, doing so is a massive mistake as it's a completely new critter that requires full cablelabs certification -- a process that takes years. The minor modifications to the _programming_ of a Motorola Surfboard to function as a DSG can be self-certified. Modifications to the tivo software -- integration of an SDV client -- can also be self-certified.


This is mostly true, however if you look at the API CableLabs put out, it is clear they (CableLABs) chose to embed the SDV client logic in the dongle.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

classicsat said:


> Yes there is; to simplify and standardize the interface between the 3rd party STB (TiVo or other), and the tuning resolver, so the STB developer need only write one small bit of code to support SDV, rather than process the full SDV communication, and have to know how to configure itself and communicate with each system, or have a complex "middleware" system.
> 
> By having the "smarts" in the TR, it allows the cable provider to configure it for their system, and load their SDV interface software.


I recognize those are reasonable points you are making, but would like to point out the same arguments were used to justify a hardware decryption dongle called CableCARD. However after deploying CableCARDs people found there are barriers and now cable companies want DCAS (downloadable conditional access) and it seems obvious to many people they should have done DCAS in the first place.

Personally I think they are much better off coming up with a solution for SDV which didn't need any additional hardware (IP-based using TiVo's ethernet hardware), but the point is moot now.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

sfhub said:


> Personally I think they are much better off coming up with a solution for SDV which didn't need any additional hardware (IP-based using TiVo's ethernet hardware), but the point is moot now.


The point of the dongle is to isolate the upstream transmitters to a hardware device that is controlled by the MSO. This way the MSO can keep the bad bad TiVo device from transmitting on its network and risking the end of civilization that might occur if TiVo were ever given the privs to talk on the RF plant.


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

Things sure looked rosy back in February...

Solekai Issues SDV Test Tool - FEBRUARY 08, 2008

Switched digital support for CableCARD still on track for second quarter - Posted Feb 8th 2008 12:23PM

Also found this:

TiVo still working on a DVR with two-way features like VOD - Posted Mar 6th 2008 8:40AM


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

logicman1 said:


> Things sure looked rosy back in February...
> 
> Solekai Issues SDV Test Tool - FEBRUARY 08, 2008
> 
> ...


I've been a little disappointed in the quality control for articles on engadget lately. For instance, the headline in Ben's article is "still on track for Q2" but he provides absolutely zero data to back it up. In fact, he doesn't even mention it in the body of the article.

It really does not take much in terms of credentials to become an internet blogger and claim way more respect than you'd get in more mainstream media.


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## cab2 (Sep 17, 2004)

logicman1 said:


> Things sure looked rosy back in February...
> 
> Solekai Issues SDV Test Tool - FEBRUARY 08, 2008
> 
> ...


Hey, rosy is good! It' just the pessimist (sp) in me that thinks this is gonna miss it's Q2 mark. If it does, I'm gone, and might be gone before that. Give me a really good deal with D* now and I'm gone now.

And I'm not sure I agree with the folks above that say that tivo users would opt for the cable companies DVR instead. At least not anyone that has used the tivo for any length of time. I still think the cable company dvr's have a loooong way to go to catch tivo.


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

Lupin said:


> While I personally believe SDV is an important feature for cable companies, I dont believe they should be allowed to roll it out till their is an alternative option to their DVRs since it effectively becomes a monopoly within what they provide. And also, its odd cause if only the FCC would let the cable companies drop Analog, they would be able to a lot more digital channels without worrying about SDV.


I agree that it would have been nice to have a DVR alternative before the roll out of SDV but we have had SDV in Austin in one form or another since 2004. This was easily a year or more before Tivo launched the S3. We can debate the legality of why they should have waited but my guess is that SDV was the "silver bullet" that has allowed many cable companies to add more HD channels to keep up with satellite.

The benefit to me and others has been the addition of 20+ HD channels that would probably not been added if they had waited until an alternative was ready. From a provider standpoint, everyone likes competition. The problem with this is that SDV gives the majority of cable customers more channels at the expense of a minority of loyal customers. That is precisely why I still have my trusty S2.

To your second point...
The FCC only said that the cable companies must carry the off-air signals in analog. I do not believe they are forcing them to keep the other analog channels. If I am wrong on this, I am sure someone will flame me on this..It has gotten pretty ugly in here lately.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ah30k said:


> The point of the dongle is to isolate the upstream transmitters to a hardware device that is controlled by the MSO. This way the MSO can keep the bad bad TiVo device from transmitting on its network and risking the end of civilization that might occur if TiVo were ever given the privs to talk on the RF plant.


An IP-based system going through a gateway back into the MSOs system *is* isolated.

Just take the tuning resolver API, make it callable over the Internet, add some authentication info, and that's what you would have. Anything getting on the MSO network would go through the gateway, just like any call today would go through the tuning resolver. It is completely under the control of the MSO.

The point is moot as hardware tuning resolver is what they decided to go with.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

logicman1 said:


> Things sure looked rosy back in February...
> 
> Solekai Issues SDV Test Tool - FEBRUARY 08, 2008
> 
> ...


The Solekai unit appears to be for Motorola systems. I've yet to see anything about Scientific Atlanta systems even having a prototype SDV dongle yet.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

ldudek said:


> Except S3/HD TiVo's apparently don't have the DOCSIS tranceiver.


Small correction... they do contain a DOCSIS cablemodem. They _don't_ contain an RF transmitter. So, it can receive messages from the headend, but send any. Plug an external DOCSIS cablemodem in and use it instead of the (unidirectional) internal modem. *BAM* Problem solved. *mostly* The communications channel is already IP.

I'm not one bit surprised CableLabs would come up with cluster f*** of a design. Gee, one more overly complicated spec. And one more piece of hardware you'll have to _rent_ from your cable company.



ah30k said:


> The point of the dongle is to isolate the upstream transmitters to a hardware device that is controlled by the MSO. This way the MSO can keep the bad bad TiVo device from transmitting on its network and risking the end of civilization that might occur if TiVo were ever given the privs to talk on the RF plant.


That is the exact purpose of Cable Labs and their certification processes. The tivo will still not have a "transmitter." Plug an already certified, licensed DOCSIS cablemodem into the tivo, and then it can talk to the headend just like your computers talk to the internet. I think you've narrowed it down to the real reason... they don't want to let Tivo, Inc. know jack s*** about their SDV technology.

DCAS exists for two reasons... it first surfaced as yet another excuse to push back the integration ban... "see, we're working on an even *better* standard." Cable operators are embracing it because it means they don't have to deal with cablecards -- or the increased cost of new STB + CC. They're banking on getting the FCC to let them drop CC support in favor of DCAS. (which means you'll have to have an OCAP receiver... which means no more tivo.)


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

routerman said:


> ...
> To your second point...
> The FCC only said that the cable companies must carry the off-air signals in analog. I do not believe they are forcing them to keep the other analog channels. If I am wrong on this, I am sure someone will flame me on this..It has gotten pretty ugly in here lately.


The FCC said that local OTA channels must be available to analog TV sets thru FEB 2012. They didn't say how. They can downrez (for HD channels, some networks might not go HD (I, nee PAX)) and use an analog channel or they can provide a cable box. And they can charge for the cable box if they like. Some HD cable boxes don't transmit an RF out, but I don't know if they are all like this.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

vstone said:


> The FCC said that local OTA channels must be available to analog TV sets thru FEB 2012.


Not exactly... Must carry just means all your customer must be able to receive them. Which means any MSO still carrying analog channels must provide them as an analog station -- which means converting from digital. If the MSO is 100% digital -- they offer no analog cable at all -- then they're clear of any requirements. This is the FCC's way of saying "get rid of your analog crap."


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Sooo, is there anyway to determine when the dongle is indeed coming out? I'm itching to buy a TivoHD when I get my tax rebate, but not until I'm sure about the dongle. Anybody we can call or email, any site, any Tivo representatives that hang out anywhere? Anything?

Thanks,
Harold


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

Hcour said:


> Sooo, is there anyway to determine when the dongle is indeed coming out? I'm itching to buy a TivoHD when I get my tax rebate, but not until I'm sure about the dongle. Anybody we can call or email, any site, any Tivo representatives that hang out anywhere? Anything?
> 
> Thanks,
> Harold


 Resist the itch for at least a year or so. SDV is only one huge problem related to this horrible cablecard technology. Another huge issue infecting many of these cablecard boxes is the "disappearing channels" bug. Series1 and series2 TiVos were great consumer products and they appear on many lists of the best new consumer products of the past decade. Too bad for TiVo that cablecard technology is such a piece of crap. You definitely won't see HD TiVos on any "best product" lists.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

JohnnyO said:


> My cynical take on it is:
> 
> Customer without tuning resolver --> more likely to get cable companies DVR, which brings them more revenue than a customer with a TiVo box.
> 
> ...


If a disgruntled customer does indeed decide to switch from a Tivo to something like TWC's 8300HD DVR, I believe that person will switch _*back*_ to their Tivo very quickly.

I have been the proud owner of various Tivo's since 2000 and I just recently had the unfortunate experience of using the "latest" TWC DVR at work. My God! It's awful! Sluggish. Constant lock ups! Terrible response time. It would not last a week at my house. Perhaps using this piece of junk is what Hell is like.

Nonetheless, I completely agree with you! Tivo has to be the prime leader and PUSH this thing through ASAP. However, with Tivo's latest legal victories I don't think the cable cos want to do anything to piss Tivo off. I think Tivo is in a better position now.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

Add one more reboot today for the TWC DVR!!!! :down: Again, thank God I don't have this thing at home...  I would smash it into a million pieces!


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## cab2 (Sep 17, 2004)

Quick, someone give me definate info on when the SDV will be available or I'll jump! I swear! I really mean it this time. Don't try to stop me. I've made up my mind this time. Really I have. 

ok, the above is tongue in cheek, but I really am starting to get to the point where I want to dump twc and (reluctantly) my tivo and go with Directv. I'd settle for someone saying they are beta testing it. Given that Q2 is just about here, and I figure any kind of reasonable beta test would have to be 2 or 3 months long, I just don't see the dongle coming in Q2.


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

dolfer said:


> Add one more reboot today for the TWC DVR!!!! ...


Just out of curiosity, is it running TV Guide Interactive?


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## cableguy763 (Oct 29, 2006)

dolfer said:


> Add one more reboot today for the TWC DVR!!!! :down: Again, thank God I don't have this thing at home...  I would smash it into a million pieces!


Is it acting anything like this: 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=378311&highlight=hd+reboots ?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ah30k said:


> I've been a little disappointed in the quality control for articles on engadget lately. For instance, the headline in Ben's article is "still on track for Q2" but he provides absolutely zero data to back it up. In fact, he doesn't even mention it in the body of the article.
> 
> It really does not take much in terms of credentials to become an internet blogger and claim way more respect than you'd get in more mainstream media.


I have to agree with you there. I'm searching that article hopefully for some basis to the headline and it just isn't there. It seems to be bdraw's personal reaction to the Solekai test-tool PR.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

m_jonis said:


> The Solekai unit appears to be for Motorola systems. I've yet to see anything about Scientific Atlanta systems even having a prototype SDV dongle yet.


"Appears" in what way to be for Motorola systems? From what I can delve from this PR at Solekai's site, it's a tool for testing the interface between Unidirectional Digital Cable Ready products (UDCRs, like TiVo S3/HD) and the tuning resolver. That interface is USB 2.0 and SDV system independent. Sounds like it's a piece of PC software which you can plug a UDCR into while it simulates messages and responses from a TR or into which you can plug a TR, while it simulates messages and responses from a UDCR. It does not itself talk over cable systems and unless the prototype TR you're using it to test does it, no cable-system-specific SDV chatter is involved.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Personally, I think that the top post, being a report of something that a cable CSR told the poster, is just noise. Let's not get all twitchy about anything less than an official press release from one of the involved companies, huh? Until we have that, we don't know anything new, I don't care if you got it from a cable company CSR, field tech or your sainted grandmother.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

I would believe grandmother first.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

after reading this thread (well skim some of it) I feel like a victim myself. Did not find one shred of actual info despite the thread title sounding all factual


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

cramer said:


> Not exactly... Must carry just means all your customer must be able to receive them. Which means any MSO still carrying analog channels must provide them as an analog station -- which means converting from digital. If the MSO is 100% digital -- they offer no analog cable at all -- then they're clear of any requirements. This is the FCC's way of saying "get rid of your analog crap."


I would hope that if the MSO is/goes all digital, they would provide the previous analog channels unencrypted, so customers would just need either a ATSC TV or a off the shelf converter box they would have already purchased to get digital OTA signals...


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

cramer said:


> Not exactly... Must carry just means all your customer must be able to receive them. Which means any MSO still carrying analog channels must provide them as an analog station -- which means converting from digital. If the MSO is 100% digital -- they offer no analog cable at all -- then they're clear of any requirements. This is the FCC's way of saying "get rid of your analog crap."


"Pursuant to Sections 614 and 615 of the
Act, cable operators must ensure that all cable subscribers have the ability to view all local broadcast
stations carried pursuant to mandatory carriage. Specifically, Section 614(b)(7) (for commercial stations)
states that broadcast signals that are subject to mandatory carriage must be viewable via cable on all
television receivers of a subscriber which are connected to a cable system by a cable operator or for
which a cable operator provides a connection."

I suppose its symantics, but conceiveably a cable operator could carry say TVland on analog, but still choose to carry local OTA HD as digital via box or as downverted SD via analog. That said, it wouldn't make much to do so, especially since the cable operator will be allowed to double count number of local stations carried to wards his minimum (I think this primarily applies towards small cable companies with few channels).


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

logicman1 said:


> Just out of curiosity, is it running TV Guide Interactive?


Yes it is! Are you having similar issues?


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

cableguy763 said:


> Is it acting anything like this:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=378311&highlight=hd+reboots ?


Cableguy, just to be clear... My problem is not with Tivo it is with the TWC DVR that we have set up at work.

Other than the initial cable card problem at launch, my Tivo HD has worked flawlessly. Since July I have only had to call TWC once. They revised some kind of mappings(?) and I had temporarily lost some of my HD channels. They pinged my CableCards and all was good again.


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## cableguy763 (Oct 29, 2006)

I know dolfer, sarcasm is hard to show in print.


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

dolfer said:


> Yes it is! Are you having similar issues?


I had a Comcast Moto DVR running TV Guide Interactive. It was awful. One of the worst flaws was how it would go berserk if a recording was in progress when Comcast did an EAS test. This would cause the DVR to record 20 or more hours of whatever programming followed the show being recorded causing unwatched recordings to be deleted. Adding a series recording (Season Pass) would frequently cause a reboot. Series recordings would record the same episode over and over again for shows such as The Wire on HBO in spite of first run only setting, etc. etc. etc.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

It seems there is no more recent info than TiVo´s statements during their earnings conference call early this month.

TiVo stated progress was being made, but there was no reiteration of the Q2 timeframe. That to me suggests delay beyond June.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> TiVo stated progress was being made, but there was no reiteration of the Q2 timeframe. That to me suggests delay beyond June.


Like most of the posters in this forum, a predictor of doom and gloom . I almost hope that the FCC comes out with a order that the cable providers work with the CE OEMs on their proposed DCR Plus scheme, which would probably kill the Tuning Resolver. I think that being proved right would make this crowd happier than having their investment in TiVo S3 saved.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

The Tuning Resolver Interface spec posted earlier has only been issued for 2 months. Would there have been any serious design work done during the draft period? It is not like the cable companies are wireless router companies trying to get the latest technology out the door as quickly as possible.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> Like most of the posters in this forum, a predictor of doom and gloom . I almost hope that the FCC comes out with a order that the cable providers work with the CE OEMs on their proposed DCR Plus scheme, which would probably kill the Tuning Resolver. I think that being proved right would make this crowd happier than having their investment in TiVo S3 saved.


Is that just an idiotic comment, or do you know some more recent information from a source that would be worth paying attention to?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Is that just an idiotic comment, or do you know some more recent information from a source that would be worth paying attention to?


The "idiotic comment" is construing the frickin' absence of them saying something in their quarterly conference call to mean that the Tuning Resolver is going to be later than previously estimated. I get so tired of listening to people in this forum making predictions about the TR being late or not being produced at all based on _nothing_ (in your case, _literally_ nothing). This entire bogus thread is based on essentially _nothing_ (a rumor being spread by some stupid CSR).


jlib said:


> The Tuning Resolver Interface spec posted earlier has only been issued for 2 months. Would there have been any serious design work done during the draft period? It is not like the cable companies are wireless router companies trying to get the latest technology out the door as quickly as possible.


I have no doubt that there were working prototypes in existence before they issued the spec. The completed spec was out for IP search (to establish that it didn't cross any existing patents) for months before they could move it to "issued" status. I'm sure that work on implementing shippable products did not stop while they waited for that.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Guys....let's act like gentlemen here.

If you feel someone's spreading misinfo or being abusive, notify the mods about the post, and let them handle it.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> The "idiotic comment" is construing the frickin' absence of them saying something in their quarterly conference call to mean that the Tuning Resolver is going to be later than previously estimated. I get so tired of listening to people in this forum making predictions about the TR being late or not being produced at all based on _nothing_ (in your case, _literally_ nothing). This entire bogus thread is based on essentially _nothing_ (a rumor being spread by some stupid CSR).


Subtle changes in language and phrasing, including the droppng of previous phrasing altogether, are are indeed significant in forums such as earnings conference calls. Just because you are unaware of how to interpret such things doesn´t mean it is OK for you to disparage my interpretation of it.

Characterizing as doom and gloom a view that the thingy will show up after June is rediculous. No one of intelligence thought the thingy would come until late Q2 anyway when it was first announced.

Characterizing most posters on this forum as predictors of doom and gloom is outrageous. If you are frustrated, why don´t you go do somthing else for a few days and spare the general reader?

Your fantasy or hopes about some extremely unlikely thing that the FCC might do on the issue really just confuses the subject with disinformation, as does your mischaracterization of the "crowd´s" reaction.

Try to be productive when you come back.


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## kchute (Apr 1, 2008)

I live in the White Rock Lake area of Dallas and noticed 10+ new HD channels showing up on my TivoHD guide. When I tried to tune to any of the new channels, all I got was "Searching for signal". I called the TWC office and when I told them I'm on cablecards, I got the usual response of "oooooooohhhh". The tech had no clue what the problem was and said a tech needed to come out to reconfigure the cablecards. Appointment is for today, but after reading threads like this one, I realize the problem is that the new channels are all SDV. This morning, things went from bad to worse when I turned on the Tivo and realized that only 2 of my HD Tier channels were still working and even those had no sound. I initially thought that the worst thing that would happen was not being able to get any new channels added to the lineup, but now it looks like they are yanking channels I have been getting perfectly since December. This is absolutely infuriating


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

If you go check out the brighthouse thread you'll find that the higher ups at brighthouse haven't even agreed who will distribute the dongle yet. And they don't want to do it themselves.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> It seems there is no more recent info than TiVo´s statements during their earnings conference call early this month.
> 
> TiVo stated progress was being made, but there was no reiteration of the Q2 timeframe. That to me suggests delay beyond June.


again, the Tuner resolver or SDV dobgle is out of TiVo's hands. They had input into the design of it and the spec but the cable companies are making it and cablelabs is testing it.

All TiVo can say is there is progress but they can not pronunce timelines for other companies. There is nothing to read into what TiVo is saying.

Focus on the cbale companies fr any actual info on timeline for this or construe lack of same info in some way


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> If you go check out the brighthouse thread you'll find that the higher ups at brighthouse haven't even agreed who will distribute the dongle yet. And they don't want to do it themselves.


Brighthouse did not want to do cable cards either. They are a smaller cable company that is not happy the big companies are setting the course.


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## cableguy763 (Oct 29, 2006)

Actually it is moto and SA making the "dongle". Not the cable co's. They will only rent- or distribute- the dongle after making it work with their individual system.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

cableguy763 said:


> Actually it is moto and SA making the "dongle". Not the cable co's. They will only rent- or distribute- the dongle after making it work with their individual system.


sure, to be specific, but they sell them to the cable companies. even Moto and SA would not think to say when they would be available to cable customers


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> again, the Tuner resolver or SDV dobgle is out of TiVo's hands...


Until it becomes available and you need a TiVo software update in order to use it!


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> again, the Tuner resolver or SDV dobgle is out of TiVo's hands....


Until it becomes available and you need a TiVo software update in order to use it!


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ah30k said:


> Until it becomes available and you need a TiVo software update in order to use it!


LOL!

And TiVo really is far more on top of and familiar with the progress than what Zeo´s comment might lead one to conclude. 



ZeoTiVo said:


> Focus on the cbale companies fr any actual info on timeline for this or construe lack of same info in some way


What should I do with lack of info from cable cos?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

HDTiVo said:


> And TiVo really is far more on top of and familiar with the progress than what Zeo´s comment might lead one to conclude.


Familiar or not, it still isn't their place to comment on it in their earnings calls.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

cableguy763 said:


> Actually it is moto and SA making the "dongle". Not the cable co's. They will only rent- or distribute- the dongle after making it work with their individual system.


And we know that SA is making one because?

The only hardcore proof so far is the soletek (?) one that was shown in a Motorola housing.

I've yet to see ANY evidence that SA even has anything in progress.


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

m_jonis said:


> And we know that SA is making one because?
> 
> The only hardcore proof so far is the soletek (?) one that was shown in a Motorola housing.
> 
> I've yet to see ANY evidence that SA even has anything in progress.


Cableguy has a pretty good track record of providing accurate info and he is one of only a few cable employees that consistently monitor and resolve issues on this forum. If he says SA is making one, I believe him. For all we know, he may be under a NDA and cannot give specifics.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

cab2 said:


> Hey, rosy is good! It' just the pessimist (sp) in me that thinks this is gonna miss it's Q2 mark. If it does, I'm gone, and might be gone before that. Give me a really good deal with D* now and I'm gone now.
> 
> And I'm not sure I agree with the folks above that say that tivo users would opt for the cable companies DVR instead. At least not anyone that has used the tivo for any length of time. I still think the cable company dvr's have a loooong way to go to catch tivo.


Not following your logic.

You are willing to put up with Directv's DVR so why wouldn't people be willing to put up with cable dvr's?

Personally I love tivo. But I think directv's ditching of tivo pretty much shows that "good enough" is all a dvr needs to be.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ah30k said:


> What did Pony say?


can anyone aim us to a link with Pony's comments?


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## cab2 (Sep 17, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Not following your logic.
> 
> You are willing to put up with Directv's DVR so why wouldn't people be willing to put up with cable dvr's?
> 
> Personally I love tivo. But I think directv's ditching of tivo pretty much shows that "good enough" is all a dvr needs to be.


point well taken. but the little i have seen of the D* DVR is better than what I remember my cable company interface looking like on their DVR. But you make a good point. 'Good enough' might be just that. I do think though that it is very hard to go backwards to anything once you have Tivo and get used to it. Hence, myself. I'm still on cable because of my tivo. But that time is growing short?

I also heard a rumor a while back, and I STRESS RUMOR, that since DTV has now sorta changed hands and Murdoch is not in (full?) control, that the new guy (malone?) might be interested in renewing the relationship with tivo. It's only a rumor, but i did hear it in a few places. I consider that bunk until something more definate comes out.


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## kiko (Jun 27, 2005)

I have to say, my SA 8300HDC's interface is the worst I've ever experienced. I moved to Hawaii a couple of months ago and had Directv's HR20 and the interface was much better and better features.

I wish the tuning receiver becomes a reality so I can ditch the 8300HDC and get a TivoHD


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I have never had a dvr that wasn't a tivo. Had S1 stand alones, s1 directivos, s2 directivos, a dvd-r tivo, hd directivo, and now S3's with cable. I got a "free" cable dvr for the first month while I was waiting on my cablecard installs but never bothered trying to figure it out. So I am far from an expert on cable dvr's.

But from what I understand there are all sorts of various brands and versions of the software for both the SA/cisco and Moto dvr's. So I dont know that generalizations one way or the other fit cable. If a particular headend is issuing "good enough" software to their dvr's then tivo likely is out of luck. Since I think the big cable providers have more dvr's deployed then tivo's total it would appear that plenty of cable subs think the cable dvr's are "good enough" for the relatively cheap price they pay.

So tivo really has an ugly uphill battle with selling hardware and monthly plans of their own. So roadblocks like SDV without a dongle are not helpfull at all for them.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Welcome back HDTiVo.


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## jbmdharris (Apr 3, 2008)

MichaelK said:


> You are willing to put up with Directv's DVR so why wouldn't people be willing to put up with cable dvr's?
> ...
> But I think directv's ditching of tivo pretty much shows that "good enough" is all a dvr needs to be.


There are a lot of people willing to live with "good enough". The problem is, "good enough" apparently can be "upgraded" to a system that is less reliable and has not implemented what many would consider essential basic features... (features that were available prior to the "upgrade") thereby making it "not good enough"... as is the case for many Time Warner customers and their rollout of OCAP Navigator. Hence, there's a spike of interest in TiVO HD... But with the varying deployment of SDV on those same Time Warner systems leaving the TiVO HD boxes in various states of crippled, leaves lots of Time Warner cable customers stuck in the middle wondering what to do... Unfortunately, there is no "silver bullet" available here yet... and no "quick fix" to make do until such a silver bullet becomes available later.... Other than complain here while we wait 10 minutes for our cable box to reboot yet again... or watch our black screen or partially pixelated recorded programs... or spend 2 hours trying to re-order our scheduled recordings list manually because you have to delete everything and enter it all again anytime you want to change the priority order. (Really, I shouldn't HAVE to need to order my scheduled recordings list in an Excel spreadsheet!)

You can't make Time Warner add basic DVR features that were lost in the new DVR system upgrade or make their software more reliable. You can only hope over time it will get better. (To their credit, they do appear to be trying... at least from the frequency of software updates I've witnessed on my box... although nowhere near as fast as customers would like them to be.) You can switch to TiVo HD/CableCard... but you will likely loose channels... either immediately or over time as more SDV is rolled out and existing DV channels become switched. Which is why we're all waiting for the magic tuning resolver. You can drop HD DVR alltogether and roll back to TiVo S2...

Short of switching to satellite, there doesn't appear to be any way for some people to get HD DVR equipment that would even qualify as "good enough".


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jbmdharris said:


> There are a lot of people willing to live with "good enough". The problem is, "good enough" apparently can be "upgraded" to a system that is less reliable and has not implemented what many would consider essential basic features... (features that were available prior to the "upgrade") thereby making it "not good enough"... as is the case for many Time Warner customers and their rollout of OCAP Navigator. Hence, there's a spike of interest in TiVO HD... But with the varying deployment of SDV on those same Time Warner systems leaving the TiVO HD boxes in various states of crippled, leaves lots of Time Warner cable customers stuck in the middle wondering what to do... Unfortunately, there is no "silver bullet" available here yet... and no "quick fix" to make do until such a silver bullet becomes available later.... Other than complain here while we wait 10 minutes for our cable box to reboot yet again... or watch our black screen or partially pixelated recorded programs... or spend 2 hours trying to re-order our scheduled recordings list manually because you have to delete everything and enter it all again anytime you want to change the priority order. (Really, I shouldn't HAVE to need to order my scheduled recordings list in an Excel spreadsheet!)
> 
> You can't make Time Warner add basic DVR features that were lost in the new DVR system upgrade or make their software more reliable. You can only hope over time it will get better. (To their credit, they do appear to be trying... at least from the frequency of software updates I've witnessed on my box... although nowhere near as fast as customers would like them to be.) You can switch to TiVo HD/CableCard... but you will likely loose channels... either immediately or over time as more SDV is rolled out and existing DV channels become switched. Which is why we're all waiting for the magic tuning resolver. You can drop HD DVR alltogether and roll back to TiVo S2...
> 
> Short of switching to satellite, there doesn't appear to be any way for some people to get HD DVR equipment that would even qualify as "good enough".


not to drag too far off topic- but a search here will find plenty of threads with people complaining that new tivo "upgrades" suck too.


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## Mike want hmo (Dec 2, 2004)

Any new news on a SDV dongle for Tivo?


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## hsfjr (Apr 14, 2002)

Yes. Some possible news... in the SDV FAQ thread (but maybe here is better place).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6162832#post6162832


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## andiben1 (Apr 22, 2008)

davidjplatt said:


> Doesn't the FCC mandate that the cable company can't force you to use their reception equipment to the exclusion of other equipment?
> 
> Isn't that the reason that the cable companies have to provide the capability of cable cards?


I called the FCC today and they really don't care. I am losing many of my channels as of 5/20 and there is nothing that I can do about it. I either have to go back to cablevison's inferior box or just do without the channels that I watch most. E!, Sci-fi, TLC, HD channels. LOTS. So I guess I have to suck up the year year of TIVO I prepaid and go back to the cable. Isn't the protection for corporations wonderful?

The only way for this to get thsi device made is for tivo to do it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

andiben1 said:


> I called the FCC today and they really don't care. I am losing many of my channels as of 5/20 and there is nothing that I can do about it. I either have to go back to cablevison's inferior box or just do without the channels that I watch most. E!, Sci-fi, TLC, HD channels. LOTS. So I guess I have to suck up the year year of TIVO I prepaid and go back to the cable. Isn't the protection for corporations wonderful?
> 
> The only way for this to get thsi device made is for tivo to do it.


From past history with CableCARDs, apparently if you are a Dean at Harvard Business School, they do care... Maybe you need to use nice letterhead?
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519124426


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## PhiTauBill (Sep 20, 2002)

From a Motorola blogger herself...

http://connectedhome2go.com/2008/04/17/motorola-tuning-resolver-flies-through-cablelabs-interop/

http://www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?blog_sectionid=419&doc_id=151428&site=cdn

The big issue as I see it, however, is how quickly each cableco/telco and TiVo can work through and test any software updates necessary to have these devices programmed to work as a go-between enabling SDV systems and IPG/VOD systems to inter-operate. Make no mistake, as most of you undoubtedly know, you'll only be able to get these from your cableco/telco, not at Best Buy.

As a Verizon FIOS customer, I don't have to worry about SDV. In fact, my FIOS service will switch over to all digital on June 2, 2008, which will enable many more HD channels from an already-larger pipe. I hope/expect that Verizon's HD lineup will improve shortly thereafter the switch, as it still falls short of the major cable company HD offerings.

I doubt, however, that Verizon will be particularly motivated to work through this quickly if the only benefit is IPG/VOD access, which really is only a VOD benefit to TiVo users, since the TiVo guide is far superior. If anyone knows of any specific FIOS-tuning resolver work being undertaken by Verizon, I'd love to hear about it.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tuning resolvers are irrelevant to Fios in every way, AFAIK -- VOD is delivered via IP. This could be supported via just a software upgrade.

I had not heard that the tuning resolvers were for anything besides SDV.


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## Brad Bishop (Sep 11, 2001)

JohnnyO said:


> My cynical take on it is:
> 
> Customer without tuning resolver --> more likely to get cable companies DVR, which brings them more revenue than a customer with a TiVo box.


I think this is a far more accurate take on the issue.

I like my TiVo HD but, in reality, if it got to the point that I couldn't view TV because of SDV, I'd just get a stupid cable box. At this point I don't event think I'd get the cable companies DVR as a good bit of the stuff is on-demand now along with the fact that, as I look at my Now Playing list on my TiVo, there really isn't much to watch.

Of course, in that situation I may just 'give up' on TV altogether. I wouldn't be upset at the cable company so much as the whole mess in general (from the FCC 'regulation' to make it all better in 1994, to TiVo not working some deal, to the cable companies fighting about cable card, to the cable companies going to SDV (which actually makes sense to me), to the endless DRM no-copy/limit time to keep crap. TV is, overall, becoming a situation where the overall cost (trying to keep up, DRM, stupid decisions by varioius companies) isn't worth the benefit (4 new episodes of 1 of a total of 3 of your favorite shows every 6 months).


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

PhiTauBill said:


> From a Motorola blogger herself...
> 
> ...


Based on this info it appears to confirm the Moto resolver will have a small footprint - W 5.5" x L 6.7" x H 1.8" since it's supposed to look like the DCT700 All-Digital Cable Set-top. :up:


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

That's the biggest dongle in the history of man. 

No wonder they are getting away from calling it a dongle/adapter and calling it a resolver.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

sfhub said:


> That's the biggest dongle in the history of man.


That makes it a boondongle!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

andiben1 said:


> I called the FCC today and they really don't care.


I think that if you write a paper letter, it will be taken more seriously than a phone call.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

am I understanding correctly that wave 60 when the moto "dongle" gets tested is is scheduled for april 24 but they need to wait till june 26th for the certifying board to ok it?

thinking Q2 aint really likely for the real world...


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> am I understanding correctly that wave 60 when the moto "dongle" gets tested is is scheduled for april 24 but they need to wait till june 26th for the certifying board to ok it?
> 
> thinking Q2 aint really likely for the real world...


No, not likely. Certification doesn't mean the MSOs are trained, have tested it themselves, etc. It's possible they could already have tested and have inventory, but getting product and distributing it to local offices (more training) could require time as well. They said on the call today that 380,000 CableCARDs are out there, and I figure many are multiple card devices/households. So this is a very small fraction of the millions of cable households - meaning it's highly likely few will have any idea what this is when we call in and request it. Still a cluster...


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## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

davezatz said:


> No, not likely. Certification doesn't mean the MSOs are trained, have tested it themselves, etc. It's possible they could already have tested and have inventory, but getting product and distributing it to local offices (more training) could require time as well. They said on the call today that 380,000 CableCARDs are out there, and I figure many are multiple card devices/households. So this is a very small fraction of the millions of cable households - meaning it's highly likely few will have any idea what this is when we call in and request it. Still a cluster...


Didn't realize there were that few CC users. But then again, I told my sister to hold off on buying a TivoHD until this adapter comes out. She won't need the cable cards until she upgrades.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

For those with SA cablecards, would this Moto resolver be compatible or we have to wait for a SA resolver ?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

slimoli said:


> For those with SA cablecards, would this Moto resolver be compatible or we have to wait for a SA resolver ?


 Cisco has announced their own tuning adapter for SA systems, the *STA-1520*
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6220528#post6220528


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

moyekj said:


> Cisco has announced their own tuning adapter for SA systems, the *STA-1520*
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6220528#post6220528


Granted, Cisco bought SA, but I wonder if that actual unit is compatible with SA systems without requiring upgrades on the head-end from the cable company?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

m_jonis said:


> Granted, Cisco bought SA, but I wonder if that actual unit is compatible with SA systems without requiring upgrades on the head-end from the cable company?


 The "Cisco Digital cable platform" is the former SA platform. Just like Cisco is doing with Linksys it's re-branding SA systems with Cisco name.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

slimoli said:


> For those with SA cablecards, would this Moto resolver be compatible or we have to wait for a SA resolver ?


That is something your provider would be concerned with, or has to make work. The TiVo would communicate with either system (TA) the same way.

Generally though, if you have SA (Cisco) cards, you'd get a Cisco TA. Same with Motorola cards, if that is what you have, you would get a Motorola TA from the provider.


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