# Weaknees upgraded S3



## taba469 (Dec 8, 2002)

I was wondering if anyone has purchased the upgraded S3 from Weaknees which has 600 hrs? I'm already committed to purchasing the S3 but it doesn't appear to be worth the extra $500; esp with the option of adding a SATA drive.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Outpost.com has the same 750Gb hard drives that Weaknees is using on sale for $299, if you are willing to follow instructions and do the upgrade yourself.

Note these hard drives are louder than the models Tivo uses. If you want a drive with similar acoustics, you'll have to settle for the 500Gb from Western Digital.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I bought the upgade, not the entire TiVo from Weaknees. Its worth it to me. I'd get the upgrade, then I have a spare drive for when the drive flakes out. (Large capacity drives seem to have a habit of doing that these days.)

The ESATA option doesnt help, its not yet active.


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## tirofiban (Feb 15, 2003)

I bought the Weaknees 500GB Upgraded Tivo. It arrives Wednesday and the cable card installation is scheduled for the next Monday.

I didn't want to do the upgrade myself. It's enough work hooking the thing up. (Although, I have almost a year of experience with Ubuntu.)

Also, one factor in choosing the 500GB S3 instead of the 750Gb was what I've heard from the podcasts I listen too. Leo Laporte and Steve Gibson always say to stay away from the bigger hard drives for reliability sake. So I figured the 500 GB drive might last longer the the 750 GB drive. I'm using this S3 for many years.


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## khill821 (Apr 4, 2002)

I bought the Weaknees 500GB upgrade kit. Works perfectly, but is definintely loud. The use Seagate drives. I can hear drive seeks very clearly across the room. Weaknees has tole me they are looking for quieter drives and will exchange the existing kits when a quieter drive is available.


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## lightrunner (Sep 24, 2006)

Storage Review has performance tests that include noise db on each drive tested. Its pretty extensive. You can always pick a drive out of there and follow the instructions to reimage the new drive yourself


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

Seagate has just announced a new 750 GB drive designed for DVR use.


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

I bought a 750GB weaknees upgrade kit and am very happy with it. Sure during indexing or seeking it can be heard but it IMO is not a huge issue. I'm finding that I'm recording everything in sight. Already in the past week I've recorded 10 HD movies just because I could. And I don't have to worry about deleting them immediately and can watch them when I have the time.

The second the eSATA port is enabled I'll have some sort of raid enclosure ready to go with multiple 750GB+ hard drives.


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## joewmaki (Jul 21, 2002)

Seagate 750GB drive - 5 yr. warranty
WD 500GB drive - 1 yr warranty


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## Motaki (Mar 28, 2004)

talmania said:


> I bought a 750GB weaknees upgrade kit and am very happy with it. Sure during indexing or seeking it can be heard but it IMO is not a huge issue.


Same here.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

joewmaki said:


> Seagate 750GB drive - 5 yr. warranty
> WD 500GB drive - 1 yr warranty


 Western Digital 500GB RE2 drive has 5 years. Fastest, quietest, cheapest drive out there.


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## jazzsax (Feb 23, 2006)

tgibbs said:


> Seagate has just announced a new 750 GB drive designed for DVR use.


Unfortunately, the specs on that drive don't seem to address any sound issues.

And I'm sure not going to get this for:
"DriveTrust technology which allows manufacturers to implement digital rights management technologies"
(And yeah, I know DRM probably wouldn't be a series 3 issue.* I just thought it was funny.)

If you know of any reason why this drive would be worth waiting for, I'd be curious to hear it.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

joewmaki said:


> Seagate 750GB drive - 5 yr. warranty
> WD 500GB drive - 1 yr warranty


WD retail drives can be upgraded to 3 years for $15, or get WD OEM drives with standard 3-year warranty.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Sixto said:


> Western Digital 500GB RE2 drive has 5 years. Fastest, quietest, cheapest drive out there.


RE2 doesn't seem to support AAM, does it?


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

c3 said:


> RE2 doesn't seem to support AAM, does it?


Not sure but all the research seems to show that the RE2 (WD5000YS) is the best 500GB drive. Searched several sites and they all seem to say it's quiet, cool, fast, and inexpensive.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Sixto said:


> Not sure but all the research seems to show that the RE2 (WD5000YS) is the best 500GB drive. Searched several sites and they all seem to say it's quiet, cool, fast, and inexpensive.


The default seek noise spec of 33 dBA is not quiet at all.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

jazzsax said:


> Unfortunately, the specs on that drive don't seem to address any sound issues.


From Seagate's web site:



> To provide an optimal entertainment experience, the digital video recording drive must be as close to acoustically invisible as
> possible. Seagate SoftSonic acoustics-limiting technology facilitates extremely quiet hard drive operation through a combination of
> quiet seek operations and an innovative motor.
> To reduce the noise level from drive operation, DB35 Series drives use customized firmware algorithms referred to as the silentseek
> ...


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

What's the word from someone who actually has one of these drives? Are they as quiet as the S3's drive? My S2 is fairly noisy, and I really like how quiet the S3 is. I don't want to ruin it by upgrading to a noisy drive.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

c3 said:


> The default seek noise spec of 33 dBA is not quiet at all.


"the drive comes in among the quietest we have ever objectively measured"

http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200607/500_6.html


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Sixto said:


> "the drive comes in among the quietest we have ever objectively measured"
> 
> http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200607/500_6.html


That comment refers to the *IDLE* noise, not seek noise. Unless it supports AAM, I would not recommend it because of the high seek noise.


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## jazzsax (Feb 23, 2006)

I guess the Seagate sound level does have a benefit, though the specs aren't apples to apples:
750GB DB35 shows:Acoustics PVR (typical/max bels) 2.71/2.88
750GB 7200.10 shows Idle 2.7 (typical) 3.0 (max) ,Perf seek 3.0 (typical) 3.4 (max)


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

jazzsax said:


> I guess the Seagate sound level does have a benefit, though the specs aren't apples to apples:
> 750GB DB35 shows:Acoustics PVR (typical/max bels) 2.71/2.88
> 750GB 7200.10 shows Idle 2.7 (typical) 3.0 (max) ,Perf seek 3.0 (typical) 3.4 (max)


Where did you find that max quote on the 7200.10? The datasheet I found on Seagate's site only said that the seek was 3.0. It said nothing about typical or max.


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## jazzsax (Feb 23, 2006)

Agent86 said:


> Where did you find that max quote on the 7200.10? The datasheet I found on Seagate's site only said that the seek was 3.0. It said nothing about typical or max.


http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/sata/100402371a.pdf

ST3750640AS. Page "5"... not really the 5th page though.


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

jazzsax said:


> http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/sata/100402371a.pdf
> 
> ST3750640AS. Page "5"... not really the 5th page though.


Product manual - nice find! Thank you.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Here is are some interestin measurements of the Western Digital and the effects of AAM:

http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/628/

- Rich


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

RichB,

Nice link. According to that site, idle noise from two inches on the WD 500Gb (40 dB) and Seagate 750Gb (40.5Gb) is about the same, but when you factor in seeks, the difference becomes quite significant.

*Seek Noise from 2 Feet*
WD 500Gb (AAM enabled) - 43.0 dB
WD 500Gb (AAM disabled) - 45.5 dB
Seagate 750Gb (No AAM) - 53.0 dB


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> RichB,
> 
> Nice link. According to that site, idle noise from two inches on the WD 500Gb (40 dB) and Seagate 750Gb (40.5Gb) is about the same, but when you factor in seeks, the difference becomes quite significant.
> 
> ...


For me, seek noise is the key. The problem is that seek noise and then the frequency become important which is not shown here. From what I can tell from the article, it seems to me that may be better off with the WD am AAM disabled. Better performance with not much cost in heat and noise.

Here are reviews of the Seagate 750 and WD 500 that caused me to return Seagate 750 and order a WD500 instead:

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10: Desktop Drives go Perpendicular

WD Caviar SE16 500GB: Big Low-Noise Champ?

Listen to the sound files.

I plan to use the 500 for a while until a quite larger drive comes at a reasonable price. I will upgrade with DD so I wont lose my files.

- Rich


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

It sounds like the DB35 7200.2 drives are designed for reduced seek noise, so they should be quieter.


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## Woodstock2 (Sep 16, 2006)

For those who upgraded capacity on their S3, did you install the new drive as a 2nd drive (i.e. keeping existing programming/settings), or did you replace the existing 250GB drive with the 500GB or 750GB drive? I'm very likley going to just wait until the eSATA interface is activated, but I may get tired of waiting.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Woodstock2 said:


> For those who upgraded capacity on their S3, did you install the new drive as a 2nd drive (i.e. keeping existing programming/settings), or did you replace the existing 250GB drive with the 500GB or 750GB drive? I'm very likley going to just wait until the eSATA interface is activated, but I may get tired of waiting.


The only way to upgrade the S3 at this point in time is replacing the stock drive. There's no way to add an internal drive (as there is in the S2). And the eSATA port is inactive right now.


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## Bodshal (Jan 4, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> The only way to upgrade the S3 at this point in time is replacing the stock drive. There's no way to add an internal drive (as there is in the S2). And the eSATA port is inactive right now.


Having said that, I'm pondering using one of those external arrays that presents on a single SATA connection and hooking it up to the internal SATA connector of the S3. Just for the hell of it. That would get you more than one drive on the thing, but with a cable hanging out the back. 

Chris.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

RichB said:


> Better performance with not much cost in heat and noise.
> 
> I will upgrade with DD so I wont lose my files.


"Performance" is not really an issue for TiVo. DD or not, you can upgrade drive A only once.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

c3 said:


> "Performance" is not really an issue for TiVo. DD or not, you can upgrade drive A only once.


I am not worried about the performance of the upgrade but of the drives when in operation.

Why can you upgrade the A drive only once?
Why can't you upgrade to a 500 now then do a DD copy later on to
a larger capacity?

- Rich


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Performance is not an issue "in operation".

You can have 3 pairs of MFS partitions per drive. Factory drive already has 2 pairs. When you upgrade to 500GB, you add 1 pair, so it's "full".


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

c3 said:


> Performance is not an issue "in operation".
> 
> You can have 3 pairs of MFS partitions per drive. Factory drive already has 2 pairs. When you upgrade to 500GB, you add 1 pair, so it's "full".


So, if I upgrade with a DD copy followed my a 
'mfstool add -x /dev/sda -r 4' I have the larger allocation units.

Now a subsequent DD and MFSTool -r 4 will not expand the existing partitions?

- Rich


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

There is no existing tool for partition expansion. You can only add partitions.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

c3 said:


> There is no existing tool for partition expansion. You can only add partitions.


OK. So to expand this unit, I will need to lose my programs. Hmmm.

- Rich


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## Bodshal (Jan 4, 2005)

This discussion leads neatly into a potential problem down the road. If the eSATA port is enabled and is setup per current TiVo 2nd drives, people who already upgraded the internal drive will hit this problem if they try to add an external drive - they'll need to start from a virgin image, or a backup from before the upgrade.

Moral: Keep the original drive (or its image) intact. 

Chris.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

We don't know how external drive works yet, but most likely that is independent of the internal drive size. The limitation (so far) is 3 MFS pairs per drive, not per TiVo.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

c3 said:


> Performance is not an issue "in operation".
> 
> You can have 3 pairs of MFS partitions per drive. Factory drive already has 2 pairs. When you upgrade to 500GB, you add 1 pair, so it's "full".


Ah ha ... now the messages I saw after mfstool add make sense ...


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## tirofiban (Feb 15, 2003)

Ok, my upgraded Weaknees S3 (500GB) arrived today. Although Comcast won't arrive with the cards until Monday, I connected it to the internet and downloaded the guide info.

I'll admit I never heard the drive on my S2 Tivo. But, my S3 is a little noisy when processing the the guide info, but overall it's not a deal breaker. If you're right next to the upgraded TIVO, it's perfectly silent, and your S3 is doing something very disk intensive (ie processing guide info) then you'll hear the drive. Otherwise, you won't even notice it. 

I'm keeping my upgraded Weaknees S3. I can't wait until Comcast arrives with the cards!


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## crabbon (Jan 9, 2003)

Bodshal said:


> Having said that, I'm pondering using one of those external arrays that presents on a single SATA connection and hooking it up to the internal SATA connector of the S3. Just for the hell of it. That would get you more than one drive on the thing, but with a cable hanging out the back.
> 
> Chris.


Chris,

Is there such a thing? I'm thinking of a drive array that I could put 4 750GB HD's in it, and one SATA cable coming off of it to the TiVo. Yes, it would have to be housed outside of the TiVo, and yes, it would make a ton of noise. But, is it possible?

Do these things exist for computers? I looked, and all I could find were arrays that still needed 1 sata cable per drive installed.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

crabbon said:


> Do these things exist for computers? I looked, and all I could find were arrays that still needed 1 sata cable per drive installed.


http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10033

Two Big, Biggest S1S, and Biggest S2S.


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## crabbon (Jan 9, 2003)

c3 said:


> http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10033
> 
> Two Big, Biggest S1S, and Biggest S2S.


But I believe those won't work, because you have to add in the PCI-express card, which has multi sata cables, not just one.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

crabbon said:


> But I believe those won't work, because you have to add in the PCI-express card, which has multi sata cables, not just one.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong.


I ordered one of these..

Thecus N2050UD
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822102002

I haven't received it yet, but I believe the pci card is just used in case your PC doesn't have an eSata port on it.

I plan to someday use it with an S3. It would be interesting to see if it could be used to replace the internal drive by running the sata cable out of the box somehow. Is the internal sata connector and an eSata connector compatible?

I'll understand how it works better when it arrives tomorrow.


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## jazzsax (Feb 23, 2006)

500GB drives reviewed and noise comparisons:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3/maxtor-diamondmax-11/index.x?pg=13


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

crabbon said:


> But I believe those won't work, because you have to add in the PCI-express card, which has multi sata cables, not just one.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong.


All of the boxes I mentioned have a single SATA cable going to the host. As far as the host is concerned, it's just one big hard drive.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Is the internal sata connector and an eSata connector compatible?


Internal and external SATA connectors are different, so you need an adapter. Don't know if the chip has different electrical settings for different cable lengths.


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## crabbon (Jan 9, 2003)

Really good information. I'm out of the loop on hardware for a year, and all these new devices show up 

The next question: Is there an internal to external sata converter?


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## crabbon (Jan 9, 2003)

crabbon said:


> Really good information. I'm out of the loop on hardware for a year, and all these new devices show up
> 
> The next question: Is there an internal to external sata converter?


I did a quick search of the web, and came up with one of these:

http://www.satagear.com/SATA-KB-116_SATA_Internal_Cable.html

I know the there may not be a pci external slot on the TivoS3, but if you remove the metal bracket, I wonder if it would work???


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

crabbon said:


> I did a quick search of the web, and came up with one of these:
> 
> http://www.satagear.com/SATA-KB-116_SATA_Internal_Cable.html
> 
> I know the there may not be a pci external slot on the TivoS3, but if you remove the metal bracket, I wonder if it would work???


On the README First pamphlet that came with my new Thecus N2050 it states:

"Do not attach an N2050 to a motherboard through a SATA to eSATA adapter bracket."

Doesn't say why not though, but I'm not sure I want to find out.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

External SATA is supposed to handle longer cable. Other than that, there is really no difference between the two. Just keep the cable short.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

joewmaki said:


> Seagate 750GB drive - 5 yr. warranty
> WD 500GB drive - 1 yr warranty


Actually i believe WD is 5 years from date of manufacture for RE

WD5000KS comes with 3 years and has AAM enabled from the factory. (hdparm -I reports aam is 128 or "quite" setting)
(I believe the ks is from teh SE class)


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Seagate now has a 750gb hard drive especially for DVR's. It is a different model then the ones sold at BB or CC for computers. Suppose to be alot quieter.

In February Seagate will be releaseing a 1.2TB Hard Sata hard drive.

TexasGrillChef


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

WD: 1 year retail with $15 additional for 3 years, 3 years OEM, 5 years enterprise


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

I just completed an upgrade to a WD5000KS drive. During the DD copy it was clear that the 500 was about 1/2 as loud as the stock 250 drive.


Worked like a charm.

- Rich


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

DD is just sequential access. There shouldn't be much (if any) seek noise, even for Seagate. You need random access to check/compare the seek noise.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

c3 said:


> All of the [Lacie] boxes I mentioned have a single SATA cable going to the host. As far as the host is concerned, it's just one big hard drive.


c3, the docs on the Two Big and Biggest S2S imply the need for a SATA II port multiplier card such as the one they provide (allows all drives on a single cable). So, it is unlikely to work even with an eSATA to SATA cable adapter to the internal port.

I am starting to wonder now if there is even _any_ multi-drive external RAID systems that don't require SATA II port multiplier functionality. I am now thinking that the only way to get a connection is with a single drive which defeats the value of connecting to the the internal SATA Port.

Anyone thinking of experimenting with an external boot drive system should discuss it with the upper-tier tech support (or at least someone who understands what you are trying to do) at the manufacturer before investing any time or money.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

jlib said:


> c3, the docs on the Two Big and Biggest S2S imply the need for a SATA II port multiplier card such as the one they provide (allows all drives on a single cable).


No, the card simply provides one or two eSATA ports for the PC. The box itself has a single eSATA port.

BTW, there is no device (that I'm aware of) that takes multiple SATA ports from the host and merge them into a single SATA port going out. Such device doesn't really make much sense.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

(jlib, para 2, don't you mean .... 'external SATA port"?)

And why is it bad if you could only connect one? Get a large one inside, a large one outside, and you'd be set (assuming the external one is subject to the mfstools' partitiion max-out limitation, of course, seeing as TiVo themselves will write the code for it!)


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

I was actually thinking about doing this again today. Just got my S3 Friday and already have a Thecus N2050 w/ 2 400GB drives. If it works, may consider getting two 750GB drives instead.

Anybody think of any reason I can't just run one of these Sata->eSata cables from the internal sata port outside the box to my Thecus? Gotta look closer tonight as to what exact eSata connector type I have.

http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html

http://www.satagear.com/SATA-KB-116_SATA_Internal_Cable.html

Was just going to copy over the image from my original drive to the raid array using the steps outlined here...
http://www.bumwine.com/tivo.html


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> On the README First pamphlet that came with my new Thecus N2050 it states:
> 
> "Do not attach an N2050 to a motherboard through a SATA to eSATA adapter bracket."
> 
> Doesn't say why not though, but I'm not sure I want to find out.


From the manual:

2-1. Attach N2050 to a motherboard through a SATA to eSATA adapter bracket?

[...] an internal SATA to eSATA port adapter bracket might cause bad signal quality and bring compatibility problems to N2050 users. Moreover, there are extra chipsets driver issues if you connect an N2050 to a motherboard via such adapter bracket.

4-5. Could I install Windows XP or other OS on N2050 and boot up from it?

N2050 is a Direct Attached Storage and we dont guaranty it can work as a booting device.​Well, that is just vague enough that I would at least try. You aren't going to hurt anything. You would want to use a well shielded SATA to eSATA cable (rather than the mentioned adapter bracket that would replace a free PCI face place on a PC).


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> I was actually thinking about doing this again today...


A true pioneer!


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

c3 said:


> No, the card simply provides one or two eSATA ports for the PC. The box itself has a single eSATA port.
> 
> BTW, there is no device (that I'm aware of) that takes multiple SATA ports from the host and merge them into a single SATA port going out. Such device doesn't really make much sense.


It would be ideal for us if that is correct. Here is some more info that makes me think manufacturers are using Port Multiplier technology. Lacie even mentions it briefly in their manual. I am not clear on all of this. I am with you in thinking why can't they make a hardware RAID that appears as a single drive (like the Promise RAID SCSI enclosures I have that the SCSI card sees as one drive).


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

ashu said:


> (jlib, para 2, don't you mean .... 'external SATA port"?)


Ashu, where we are at right now is since the external eSATA is disabled, a few here came up with the bright idea of using an external hardware-based (driverless and OS independent) RAID enclosure connected with an eSATA to SATA adapter cable to the internal SATA port, in effect replacing the single internal drive with a bootable external array of drives (to get needed capacity increase). This idea is only of any value if we can connect multiple drives (seen as one) since we are removing the existing drive.

The current discussion is about whether the existing RAID systems that seem qualified require any functionality beyond that provided by the internal SATA port. If not then we have a winner. We are currently egging Greg_Burns on to fry... er, try his new Thecus N2050 800 GB RAID.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

c3 said:


> No, the card simply provides one or two eSATA ports for the PC. The box itself has a single eSATA port.


OK, now I am back in your camp. This is based on reading about the Accusys ACS-76130 which is an _internal_ RAID so obviously it is designed for the existing internal SATA port. If it is bootable in a PC it should work! Would need power, though....


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

jlib said:


> Ashu, where we are at right now ...


Whoa, Nelly ... thanks for the 'splanahun 

I don't own an S3. Yet. So I'm just an (eager) armchair participant. Good luck, Greg ... don't burn 'em drives~

FWIW, when I connected my brand new 320GB Seagate 7200.10 SATA2 drive (yes, I unplugged the SATA-150 jumper!) to my system via the provided (with the eSATA enclosure) SATA->eSATA back panel (yes, it used up a slot ... sob sob  at the documentation you reproduced), WinXP asked me whetehr I wanted to treat it as an attached drive or an easily removable one. I picked the former, so I don't see why it wouldn't continue to work as a bootable drive (notwithstanding the CYA logic they use in the documents you quoted).

So WinXP DID realize that the drive was external ... I had NOT expected that! Something in the little backpanel? Or the SATA chip in the enclosure?

Oh, and it's FAST. MIGHTY fast! Sustained well over 40-50MB per second once formatted. I initially got 1-2MB per second and was mightily disappointed, until I realized that was WHILE I was formatting two other partitions on it 

Now to see how well the new Knoppix/MFS upgrade CD with eSATA capability handles this in a dry run 

<edit> This Rosewill enclosure at newegg, BTW. As a bundle with the Seagate, $5 off and combo discount shippnig was less than the sum of both shipping amounts!


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

ashu said:


> So WinXP DID realize that the drive was external ... I had NOT expected that! Something in the little backpanel? Or the SATA chip in the enclosure?


No, Windows wouldn't know if it's internal or external based on the SATA connection. The enclosure chip tells Windows how the device should be treated.


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## JerryInPhoenix (Sep 19, 2006)

If you find an external drive that has hardware raid then it should look like one large sata drive to TIVO. The Thecus drive mentioned has hardware RAID. The give away is the processor in the enclosure. The TIVO hardware and software will have to support addressing the large drive.

I have seen external arrays with at least 4 drives and hardware RAID. That would let you get somewhere around 2 TB.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

ashu said:


> Now to see how well the new Knoppix/MFS upgrade CD with eSATA capability handles this in a dry run


I just tried a dry run of my own. "Upgraded" my S3 to a 300GB drive I had lying around using the Knoppix disc. Worked well.

Currently doing the upgrade again to my 800GB raid array. Seems to be working. But won't know for sure until the sata adapter I ordered tonight arrives in the mail. mfstools says it added 659 more hours (for a grand total of 941hours). :up:

FYI, the dd command on my system takes about 1 hour 20 minutes to complete. The mfstools add itself is instantaneous.


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## tossil (Sep 16, 2006)

Greg_Burns: Ok, so what have you done so far? Upgrade the internal drive? Attach a drive to the external eSATA? What worked, what didn't? 

Thanks for the details!


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

tossil said:


> Greg_Burns: Ok, so what have you done so far? Upgrade the internal drive? Attach a drive to the external eSATA? What worked, what didn't?
> 
> Thanks for the details!


I've temporarily upgraded the internal drive from the stock 250GB to a mere 300GB single disk just to see if I could follow the instructions.

I also copied the image onto my 800GB Thecus raid array following the same instructions. I am not using it yet because I have no way to hook it up to the internal sata connector. I ordered a cable adapter (that I hope) will allow me to try that. I'll post back the results of that test when it arrives in a few days.


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

tossil said:


> Greg_Burns: Ok, so what have you done so far? Upgrade the internal drive? *Attach a drive to the external eSATA? * What worked, what didn't?
> 
> Thanks for the details!


The external SATA port is not yet enabled ... these folks are attempting to use an external RAID array presenting as a single disk connected to the internal SATA connector, via an iSATA<->eSATA adapter similar to those bundled with eSATA enclosures like the Rosewill I linked above.

I'm optimistic it should work ... don't see why not!


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> Anybody think of any reason I can't just run one of these Sata->eSata cables from the internal sata port outside the box to my Thecus? Gotta look closer tonight as to what exact eSata connector type I have.
> 
> http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html
> 
> http://www.satagear.com/SATA-KB-116_SATA_Internal_Cable.html


The only thing I would add is to try and keep the cable length within SATA-I specs (1 meter). There would be no advantage to using that SATA to eSATA PCI face plate adapter with an eSATA to eSATA cable because it would be dangling outside the case anyway. Just go SATA to eSATA directly and use the three footer if posible.

[edit] Oh, I bet the Thecus must have come with an eSATA cable, that is why you were considering the adapter plate? That would work OK, too. Hopefully, the eSATA cable is not real long, though.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

jlib said:


> The only thing I would add is to try keep the cable length within SATA-I specs (1 meter). There would be no advantage to using that SATA to eSATA PCI face plate adapter with an eSATA to eSATA cable because it would be dangling outside the case anyway. Just go SATA to eSATA directly and use the three footer if posible.
> 
> [edit] Oh, I bet the Thecus must have come with an eSATA cable, that is why you were considering the adapter plate? That would work OK, too. Hopefully, the eSATA cable is not real long, though.


I wasn't (and am not) sure what will work. I ordered the 1 meter Part #SS-1ESS (eSATA to SATA Type (I) to Type (L) Shielded External Data Cable) from here:
http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html

Won't be here until Monday.

I see there is a grate on the bottom of the S3. Looks like if I snip out a little piece of the metal I can slide the cable through from the bottom to the outside of the box.

picture of grate


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

ashu said:


> The external SATA port is not yet enabled ... these folks are attempting to use an external RAID array presenting as a single disk connected to the internal SATA connector, via an iSATA<->eSATA adapter similar to those bundled with eSATA enclosures like the Rosewill I linked above.


As I'm sure you know, the Rosewill would gain you nothing here because it is just a single external drive enclosure. You need to have some sort of RAID or JBOD device to gain any benefit over the existing internal drive setup.

1 Thecus $150
1 WD 400GB $140
1 WD 400GB $140
Total = $430

vs.
1 Seagate Barracuda 750GB $380-$450

Seems cheaper (and more flexible) to buy two smaller drives than one big one. Can always later move this to the eSata port (or buy another  )


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Looks like if I snip out a little piece of the metal I can slide the cable through from the bottom to the outside of the box.


Personally, I wouldn't snip out anything from an $800 box.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> You need to have some sort of RAID or JBOD device to gain any benefit over the existing internal drive setup.


Has to be RAID 0/1/5/etc. JBOD would not work for this application.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

c3 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't snip out anything from an $800 box.


I _only_ paid $700. 

Admittedly, I don't know much (ie nothing) about JBOD. Why wouldn't it work? I thought it just combined drives together and presented them as a single volume at the hardware level. The only real benefit over RAID 0 would be that they don't have to be identical? Downside, you loose the speed boost that RAID 0 gives. What am I not groking?


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

JBOD presents individual drives (up to 15) to a "port multiplier aware" host over a single SATA cable, similar to master and slave drives for PATA. What you described is concatenation.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

c3 said:


> What you described is concatenation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_array_of_independent_disks#Concatenation_.28JBOD.29


> *Concatenation (JBOD)*
> Although a concatenation of disks (also called JBOD, or "Just a Bunch Of Drives") is not one of the numbered RAID levels, it is a popular method for combining multiple physical disk drives into a single virtual one. As the name implies, disks are merely concatenated together, end to beginning, so they appear to be a single large disk.


Just repeating what I've read.


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> As I'm sure you know, the Rosewill would gain you nothing here because it is just a single external drive enclosure. You need to have some sort of RAID or JBOD device to gain any benefit over the existing internal drive setup.
> 
> 1 Thecus $150
> 1 WD 400GB $140
> ...


I agree with the math, but it's current. By the time I anticipate owning an S3, and further (later) when I NEED an upgrade, I'm counting on eSata being enabled and that enclosure becoming my external addong to 250GB. Oh, and lower 750GB prices. Us poorer gadget freaks have to live just (or substantially) behind the expensive bleeding edge of the curve, changing the parameters of our returns-on-cost equation, compared to your trail-blazing (burning?) path 

Until that happens I'm ready to upgrade an S3 I finally buy), I am hapy to use the 320GB eSATA drive externally as a program dump so I can sell 2 (or more) of my S2 TiVos to make money to afford an S3


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_array_of_independent_disks#Concatenation_.28JBOD.29
> 
> Just repeating what I've read.


Well, that's interesting. I work in a company with storage products. JBOD and concatenation are *NOT* the same. I just talked to our storage marketing manager who deal with our customers in the storage industry. They have no problem differentiating between these two modes, either.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_array_of_independent_disks#Concatenation_.28JBOD.29
> 
> Just repeating what I've read.


Take what you read on wikipedia with a very large grain of salt.


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> 1 Thecus $150
> 1 WD 400GB $140
> 1 WD 400GB $140
> Total = $430
> ...


I will bet you that the 2 WD drives together are quieter seeking than the single Seagate.

I want to try the Accusys ACS-76130 with 3 of the WD drives (the quiet 500GB ones) in RAID 5. That would give me a fault tolerant TerraByte TiVo. The write bottlenect of the RAID 5 config should never even be approached with the TiVo disk demands. I still don't have my S3 yet (ordered from that guy who ran out of shipping boxes) so I am just a cheer leader for now.

I wonder if there are any size limitations of the presented disk as far as the hardware and kernal are concerned? There shouldn't be at this stage, right?

The other thing I was thinking of is could another drive be wedged into the the S3 along with the RAID 0 electronics circuit board from your Thecus N2050? I guess it would be good to get a fan in there, too. I know there is no bracket currently for another drive but is there physical space?


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Take what you read on wikipedia with a very large grain of salt.


I've read the african elephant population has tripled in the last six months.


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> Take what you read on wikipedia with a very large grain of salt.


And if you read on wikipedia that salt occurs in large grains, you would likely be mistaken too


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

jlib said:


> I wonder if there are any size limitations of the presented disk as far as the hardware and kernal are concerned?


JamieP reported in another thread that the hard limit is 2TB. There *may* be issues with more than 1TB.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

jlib said:


> I will bet you that the 2 WD drives together are quieter seeking than the single Seagate.
> 
> I want to try the Accusys ACS-76130 with 3 of the WD drives (the quiet 500GB ones) in RAID 5. That would give me a fault tolerant TerraByte TiVo. The write bottlenect of the RAID 5 config should never even be approached with the TiVo disk demands. I still don't have my S3 yet (ordered from that guy who ran out of shipping boxes) so I am just a cheer leader for now.
> 
> ...


I also have a SataVault w/ 2 WD 250GB drives in it. It is noticeably louder than the Thecus w /2 WD 400GB. Is it the drives or the fan? Dunno.

Take a look for yourself at the guts of an S3. I don't think there is room myself.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315795

The inside of the Thecus (sorry about the pictures, better camera is next on the list)...




























Goofy thing about the Thecus; the HD are mounted upside down. At least upside down to what I thought was upside right.  I recall seeing an add on WD's site showing a drive mounted upside down as well in some server blade. Guess it is not a problem. Just seemed strange.


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Yeah, it doesn't look like there's place inside the S3 for another (properly mounted) whole drive and a card to change the behavious of the pair into a single, visible drive. Unless you dow hat some people did with the Humax DRT800 or Toshiba RS-TX series DVD recording TiVos and just 'put' one on top of the chips on the motherboard 

He he ... upside down  That made me wonder ...
My Seagate 320 7200.10 is standing on its side in the Rosewill eSATA enclosure ... so am I losing the benefits of the faster perpendicular bits?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

give weakness time- if a raid card will work on the internal sata connector they'll come up with some bracket!


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

Thecus is using a PCI card in there!


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

jlib said:


> Thecus is using a PCI card in there!


It's just a connector. No PCI electronics.


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

(FYI, not a great deal or anything, just amazed me Costco carried such things!)

Cavalry 2TB SATA external Hard Drive

$999.99 Shipped (+ Tax)

Gratuitous copy-paste ...


costco website said:


> he optimum combination of mega storage capacity 2 channel 1 TB per channel SATA speed and superior RAID security, this powerful RAID subsystem comes in an 8-bay array with hot-swappable hard disks and RAID controller with PCI express host adapter.
> 
> Ideal for saving hefty files, video, music, protecting databases or working directly on the drive, it delivers high-capacity performance and data Security.
> 
> ...


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

Nice. So, it comes with the hard disks at that price? 

(Not usable for Tivo, by the way)


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Well I got my Sata->eSata cable today and hooked it up.

This is with 2 400GB WD drives...



















Surprised at how much seeking is taking place on the Thecus. Much noisier than it ever was just connected to my PC.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Surprised at how much seeking is taking place on the Thecus. Much noisier than it ever was just connected to my PC.


That's expected. Right? That's why I use Seagate on PC but not on TiVo.


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## wackymann (Sep 22, 2006)

Very cool stuff! I think I will end up waiting and buy a nice, quiet 750GB single drive after they have been out for a while - and the prices come down a bit - probably next summer? I think I can survive on my 250 until then. But it's very nice to see that there are other options out there! Thanks for breaking ground on this stuff.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

You know, I had the Thecus sitting on my son's plastic drawing table in that picture above. As soon as I set it on the floor, the noise level went way down. 

Edit: OK, it quieted done some. Not a whole lot really. 

In fact, since I'm now free to separate the S3 and the Thecus I may put it inside the bottom cabinet outta sight and sound. 

I also hadn't turned on accoustic manangement settings on these drives yet either. Anybody every figure out if you can use the Hitcachi Feature Tool with Sata drives?


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Anybody every figure out if you can use the Hitcachi Feature Tool with Sata drives?


It worked with an IDE-SATA adapter. Don't know about native SATA support.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> You know, I had the Thecus sitting on my son's plastic drawing table in that picture above. As soon as I set it on the floor, the noise level went way down.
> 
> Edit: OK, it quieted done some. Not a whole lot really.
> 
> ...


you can use the linux hdparm commands to enable acoustic management.

search for my post in the s3 thread in the upgrade forums to get the syntax. It's very simple. No need to fiddle with another disk- just use knoppix or whatever linux you are booting to anyway.


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> ...Anybody every figure out if you can use the Hitachi Feature Tool with Sata drives?


Since you can use it to turn off SATA II features I would think so.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> you can use the linux hdparm commands to enable acoustic management.
> 
> search for my post in the s3 thread in the upgrade forums to get the syntax. It's very simple. No need to fiddle with another disk- just use knoppix or whatever linux you are booting to anyway.


I wonder if it is too late now that it is part of a RAID array. I don't know that hdparm commands or Hitachi Feature Tool will work with the drives still mounted in the Thecus. If I take it out, won't it trash the RAID 0?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> I wonder if it is too late now that it is part of a RAID array. I don't know that hdparm commands or Hitachi Feature Tool will work with the drives still mounted in the Thecus. If I take it out, won't it trash the RAID 0?


Most likely the tool would not work with a virtual drive. Just set the AAM individually and put the drives back in the same Thecus slot. Some RAID boxes can also detect that the drives have been swapped, but to be safe, don't swap them.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> you can use the linux hdparm commands to enable acoustic management.


Thanks MichaelK (and the rest of you guys as well)!

Booted Knoppix and followed your hdparm commands from other thread . Had me thinking it didn't work at first when it came back with:

HDIO_GET_ACCOUSTIC failed: Inappropirate ioctl fro device

But when I ran hdparm -I /dev/sdX again it showed the value changed to 128. And what a difference is noise level! Barely here it anymore. Amazing.

When I pulled the drives out they were RED HOT! They had only been running in the Thecus for about 3 hours. I hope slowing them down will help reduce the heat a little as well.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> When I pulled the drives out they were RED HOT!


That's not a good. Is the fan always running?


----------



## gmark (Jul 10, 2002)

Got some possibly dumb questions.

1) Is there any difference between the pictures or sound you get on the Comast PVR vs. the S3?
2) Does the sound circuitry do anything for non-THX-encoded program material? I. e., will I just buy an optical cable and hear better sound out of my home theater for "normal" TV?
3) Is there any problem with the On-Demand stuff? I. e., not having that Comcast dedicated "on-Demand" button any problem?
4) Are there any provisions for external HDs? E. g., via a USB port or something? I'm a bit hesitant to put all my eggs in one basket by putting huge HDs in a machine, when a single HD could fail.
TIA!

Mark


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

gmark said:


> Got some possibly dumb questions.
> 
> 1) Is there any difference between the pictures or sound you get on the Comast PVR vs. the S3?
> 2) Does the sound circuitry do anything for non-THX-encoded program material? I. e., will I just buy an optical cable and hear better sound out of my home theater for "normal" TV?
> ...


Yes

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

c3 said:


> That's not a good. Is the fan always running?


Yep, fan is running. I just pulled the cover off this morning and touched a drive. Still too hot to be able to hold. Don't recall if that was normal for these WD drive or not.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> Thanks MichaelK (and the rest of you guys as well)!
> 
> Booted Knoppix and followed your hdparm commands from other thread . Had me thinking it didn't work at first when it came back with:
> 
> ...


I got that same iotcl error- I thought it was me- but yup when i checked it did get set right...

I wonder what that means...


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> Yep, fan is running. I just pulled the cover off this morning and touched a drive. Still too hot to be able to hold. Don't recall if that was normal for these WD drive or not.


can you get SMART tools to work on raid drives? so you can querry the drives for a temp (but you would need to pull them quickly from the tivo and boot them fast to somethign that can check via SMART.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> can you get SMART tools to work on raid drives? so you can querry the drives for a temp (but you would need to pull them quickly from the tivo and boot them fast to somethign that can check via SMART.


Only know how to do that from a windows app. That wouldn't be good for my Tivo drive. 

Some drives just run much hotter than others. The reviews on newegg for this drive seems to concur with that.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822144423

If the upper limit seems to be 1TB, I may just order two WD 500 GB. Anybody have experience with them? I hear they are quiet, but what about the heat?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

good point- the only programs I know that look at the SMART info are windows- that would be bad...


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns, can you give me any further comments on the fan noise and cooling issues after having used the Thecus N2050 for a while now? What size is the fan? 60mm? Does it use a third wire to monitor speed of the fan thus making it difficult to swap fans without alarms going off? You had mentioned the drives were extremely hot. Is that because it is a plasic case do you think? Do you think it needs better ventilation? I would want to put a quieter fan (read larger, slower) on it. Would I be able to carve out a spot for an 80mm (computer case size) fan? I am not someone who cares about voiding warranties. I have a couple WD 500s I could use (that seems to be its maximum capacity).


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

jlib said:


> greg_burns, can you give me any further comments of the fan noise and cooling issues after having used the Thecus N2050 for a while now? What size is the fan? 60mm? Does it use a third wire to monitor speed of the fan thus making it difficult to swap fans without alarms going off? You had mentioned the drives were extremely hot. Is that because it is a plasic case do you think? Do you think it need better ventilation? I would want to put a quieter fan (read larger, slower) on it. Would I be able to carve out a spot for an 80mm (computer case size) fan? I am not someone who care about voiding warranties. I have a couple WD 500s I could use (that seems to be its maximum capacity).


Yes, the fan is 2" diag, but considered 40mm I believe. It is 3 wire. There is no room at all for a larger fan. I believe the one in it is adequate. The whole system is pretty quiet. It wasn't at first, but after applying the accoustic managment to the WD drives inside, it is now. I think the two drives running inside are louder than the fan itself. I've removed the drives and had the fan running by itself just to test. Very quiet. Noise has not really been an issue with this setup IMO. My drives do get to be too hot to touch. From what I read, these 400GB WD's just run hot. I may swap them for that 500GB WD pair myself.

I have a one of these rebranded Sans Digital running off my PC right now. It is so loud it is grating on my nerves. Not sure if it just the fans (it has two, 30&40mm) in there or the model of drives I have (2 250GB WD I believe). Nicely constructed, not plastic like the Thecus. Its price put me off more than anything. Haven't even attempted to figure out why it is so loud. It is on loan from work and going back shortly.

The Thecus' limit is stated as 1TB. (Or are you referring to the Tivos?) Not sure why the Thecus whould have that limit though. Sometimes they just advertise it that way, because that was the largest drive pair you could buy when it came out. *Could be wrong though.* (Seen that on motherboards all the time, model X support up to Y GHz proc in manual. But in reality it takes the fastest cpu available.)

My biggest beef currently is the freaking light show on the front. Very distracting in my entertainment center. Would like to put the drive behind it out of site, but I purchased the in spec 1m sata cable which doesn't give me much wiggle room.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Unless the drives really run too hot for the fan, the enclosure may not be properly designed to direct the airflow across the drives.


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

It is alarming that most of the listed WD drives are flagged as incompatible and the WD 500 Caviar or RE2 is not listed either way. Not very good odds that it would work with a WD 500.

I found this case mod project on a related Thecus model. Apparently excessive heat is a common concern with the Thecus enclosures.

There is even a budding Thecus User Group which is good because these small Taiwanese computer hardware companies have little or no tech support. And guess what, just now I see a user reports the WD 500 is incompatible with the Thecus N2050. I guess that is the end of my RAID project for now...


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Thanks for those links. I posted my success with WD4000KD drives. That is very surprising there is incompatibilities with drives.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> can you get SMART tools to work on raid drives? so you can querry the drives for a temp (but you would need to pull them quickly from the tivo and boot them fast to somethign that can check via SMART.


We'll my RAID array finally died tonight. Was rebooting after installing a cable amp and it got stuck on the powering up screen. 

Decided to take the opportunity to pull the drives and see just how hot there were. Took a couple minutes to get them out of the Thecus and connect them separately to my PC. Actually had to wear gloves they were that hot! 

First tried booting to Hitachi Feature Tool cd but it said it couldn't read the drive temps for some reason.

Decided to go ahead and boot into Windows (knowing I will need to reimage) and try running SpeedFan.

It reported 52C on both drives. That was after about 10 minutes of being out of the Thecus. They are currently down to 48C. Going to let them run just connected to my PC overnight to see what their normal operating temp are out in the open.

My PC's 120GB WD is only running at 37C as a comparison.

Edit: temps after running all night connected to my PC idling is 44C.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

If you cannot hold the drive with your bare hand, I would say it's too hot.


----------



## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

So, anyone have a definitive date when Weaknees will get the Seagate DB35?


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> We'll my RAID array finally died tonight...


Did it just shut itself down as thermal protection or is it damaged? The drives themselves are still OK?

FYI: a new model of the N2050.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

jlib said:


> Did it just shut itself down as thermal protection or is it damaged? The drives themselves are still OK?


I don't think the Thecus has any thermal protection. Not really sure what happened. It was working fine up until I rebooted the Tivo. The drives never powered down at all in the Thecus. It just wouldn't get past the powering up screen on the Tivo anymore. I never gave it a chance to cool off, to see if that would help, cause I wanted to connect it to my PC to see what temp they had gotten do. Never bothered trying again with the Tivo when I saw how hot it was running.

I currently have it setup in RAID 1 connected to my PC just for data storage. The drives work fine after reformatting, but are still way too hot to the touch. I may try again using it in the Tivo with those cooler running 500GB WD ones though.

Edit: Not reading good reviews on Newegg for the WD500 GB either. Hot and high failure rates. :down:

A big concern I have is the Sata cable coming out of the box. I already had one close call where I forgot it was there when pulling it out of the stereo cabinet and could have broken the connection on the Tivo motherboard.  Definitely recommend cable tying it to the case to prevent that.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Edit: Not reading good reviews on Newegg for the WD500 GB either. Hot and high failure rates. :down:


I thought the WD 500GB has lower temperature than other similar drives. I think many people have used the WD 500GB with S3. The failure rate may have something to do with how Newegg ships bare drives. I personally will *NEVER* buy bare drives from Newegg. Some of the packing people should be fired.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> I currently have it setup in RAID 1 connected to my PC just for data storage. The drives work fine after reformatting, but are still way too hot to the touch.


Since you're not afraid of cutting up a brand new S3 , you may want to drill some holes in the Thecus box for better airflow, if that is the primary cause.


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

One person reported that the input openings nowhere near match the fan CFM output capability. After drilling a neat line of holes in the front there was a claimed increase in air volume exhausted by the fan. Since there is no heat sink efffect as with metal enclosures, proper air flow is critical and it sounds like that wasn't well thought out.


----------



## davidwsica (Mar 26, 2005)

geekmedic said:
 

> So, anyone have a definitive date when Weaknees will get the Seagate DB35?


They just got the 750GB DB35 drives in and I have one shipping out today. I'm replacing my 750GB drive from Outpost that was too loud.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Price has dropped from $599 to $499.


----------



## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

davidwsica said:


> They just got the 750GB DB35 drives in and I have one shipping out today. I'm replacing my 750GB drive from Outpost that was too loud.


What is the model number. I see new ones with a soft drive listed?

- Rich


----------



## davidwsica (Mar 26, 2005)

RichB said:


> What is the model number. I see new ones with a soft drive listed?
> 
> - Rich


Check out the Weaknees forum:

http://www.wkforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66


----------



## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> ...I may just order two WD 500 GB. Anybody have experience with them? I hear they are quiet, but what about the heat?


I can verify that the WD 500GB Raid Edition drives work with the Thecus N2050. This is currently the only verified and cost effective way to get 1 Terabyte on the S3. I did perform extensive thermal modifications to the case because of known poor design so as long as I don't include the cost of my labor it is still _cost effective_.


----------



## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

jlib said:


> I did perform extensive thermal modifications to the case


Got pictures?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

jlib said:


> I can verify that the WD 500GB Raid Edition drives work with the Thecus N2050. This is currently the only verified and cost effective way to get 1 Terrabyte on the S3. I did perform extensive thermal modifications to the case because of known poor design so as long as I don't include the cost of my labor it is still _cost effective_.


I may go this route again. I was shocked how much the new Seagate 750GB DB35 was at CDW and Weaknees.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

After the DB35 drive is available from more dealers, I think the price will be just a little more than the standard 750GB drive, which is now around $300.

BTW, Microcenter also sells the Thecus box. $160.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

Yes, I did take some pics but I won't have time to review them until this weekend. Needed to get things ready for Comcast on Friday. I've had the S3 for a month but still no working cable cards yet. I have banned the Comcast installation contractors from my house. Comcast trucks only from now on!


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