# Missing analog channels on one Series 3 tuner



## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

I've had my S3 for several weeks, and recently discovered a problem. The S3 is connected using the Cable input and my cable supplier is Comcast. I also have a TiVo Series 2 and a Motorola 3412 HD DVR connected to the same cable.

The problem is that one tuner in the S3 does not reliably tune analog channels in the range 35 to 50. I either get a blank screen or the message "Searching for signal on: Cable In". Occasionaly one of the problem channels will tune in, or will flicker on and off. (I discovered the problem when I was recording a program on one of these channels; although the S3 indicated that it was recording, nothing was stored.)

The other tuner in the S3 picks up all of these channels reliably. The TiVo S2 and the Motorola 3412 also tune these channels (the 3412 is tuning the digital simulcast of these analog channels). My TV cable input is also connected, and the TV tunes these channels.

Am I correct that this is not a CableCard problem (channels in the range 35-50 are unencrypted analog channels, and both S3 tuners pick up all the digital channels)? Should I be considering calling TiVo for a replacement S3, or should I replace one of the CableCards?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

It could very well be a CC problem. Once you have a CC, all channels, including analog, go "through" the CC. 

I discovered this when the first Comcast guy screwed up my CC install. Analog channels that worked before, now wouldn't come in, and then came in again with the removal of the CC.

So yes, it probably is a CC issue based on what you describe. To test, take out the CC, perhaps run guided setup, and try again.

Also, make sure you reran guided setup after both CC were installed and reboote.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Actually analog channels don't go through the CableCARDs. However in some areas the cable companies do something call digital simulcast, which basically turns some or all of your analog stations into digital stations. When the CableCARD is installed it remaps the channels which normally point to an analog feed to their digital counterpart. 

The easiest way to tell if your cable company is doing this is to go into cable signal meter. This meter only displays digital cable channels. So if your getting digital simulacast channels then you'll see channels below 100 on this screen. If not then you'll only see channels over 100.

Dan


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

do a search- there seem to be several boxes missing that range of channels on one tuner.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

Dan203-In my area, the analog channels are being digitally simulcast. My Moto 3412 does not have analog tuners, but tunes the channels being digitally simulcast. I had been wondering whether my S3, with cablecards, was tuning the analog or the digital version, so thanks for the information.

MichaelK-Thanks for the information; I had done a search, but for the wrong thing. There is a long thread ("Random Channel/Tuner Loss") with many posters having the same problem as mine. There doesn't seem to be an easy solution, but several report that exchanging the S3 solves the problem.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

hearncl said:


> MichaelK-Thanks for the information; I had done a search, but for the wrong thing. There is a long thread ("Random Channel/Tuner Loss") with many posters having the same problem as mine. There doesn't seem to be an easy solution, but several report that exchanging the S3 solves the problem.


See, this is the kind of lousy diagnostics that really irritates me. Of course swapping the S3 fixes it, since you're redoing every piece of the set up.

The real issue is much more likely the set up of the cable card. But rather than isolate a problem, and perhaps look at the CC configurations, people look for the broadest, most coarse action possible.

Bizarre (to me).


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Actually analog channels don't go through the CableCARDs. However in some areas the cable companies do something call digital simulcast, which basically turns some or all of your analog stations into digital stations. When the CableCARD is installed it remaps the channels which normally point to an analog feed to their digital counterpart.
> 
> The easiest way to tell if your cable company is doing this is to go into cable signal meter. This meter only displays digital cable channels. So if your getting digital simulacast channels then you'll see channels below 100 on this screen. If not then you'll only see channels over 100.
> 
> Dan


Say what you want in theory, but the reality is:

- S3 with no cable cards but analog cable plugged in - works fine
- Same S3 with cable cards, not initialized properly - no analog (or digital) channels
- Same S3 with cable cards initialized properly - all channels fine

So whether the CC has to be used for analog channels appears irrelevent. If you have a CC, the S3 decides to use the CC for all channel tuning.

It apparently has nothing to do with what the Cable company is doing.

This makes sense in a broad sense, in that the S3 just decides "hey, if you have CC's, I'm just gonna send everything through them". Plus, if I remember correctly, the S3 doesn't behave like the S2 where you can have different channels on each tuner? Again, it makes sense that it would do this for ease of programming or something.

But I can tell you for sure, CC + analog channels = everything requires the CC to be working.


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## dpeet (Oct 24, 2006)

I see the the same problem and I do NOT have cable cards.
My cable company is Comcast in Santa Cruz, CA


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

dpeet said:


> I see the the same problem and I do NOT have cable cards.
> My cable company is Comcast in Santa Cruz, CA


Similar experiences on the other thread--others are encountering this problem, with no cablecards installed.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> If you have a CC, the S3 decides to use the CC for all channel tuning.


CableCARDs don't "tune" anything! They are used strictly for authorization of digital channels. Like I said your cable company mostlikely uses digital simulacast. In which case, with the CableCARDs inserted, your TiVo trys to tune the digital versions of the stations even when you tune to the analog channel number. Since they are digital they are subject to the authorization of the CableCARD and as usch the CablecARD can cause problems. Removing the CableCARDs removes the digital simulcast mapping and causes the TiVo to go back to tuning the real analog channel.

Dan


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

OK, so if Comedy Central (analog channel 63, I believe, on Comcast in Sunnyvale) is sometimes showing up as flickering between a picture and a blank screen, how do I figure out if that is (as some have suggested) a bad (or intermittently bad) analog tuner, or a cable card issue?

Should I have Comcast reprogram the cards, and risk going from bad to worse? Is there any way to know whether the current cable card configuration is "correct" or not, especially given that HD channels (like ESPN and Discovery) both work (but were not both available in-the-clear prior to getting cable cards)? Is there any way to know whether I'm seeing the analog version of the channel, or the digital simulcast one?

Or should I pull the cable cards, re-do the guided setup (fun, not), and see if the problem goes away? I really hate the idea of trying to prove that an intermittent problem is gone, especially if that means limping along without the cable cards (and thus, without HD programming getting recorded)?


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## doctord (Dec 17, 2004)

Try tuning to one of the problem channels and go into the diagnostics to see signal strength. I had a similar problem with low signal strength on one tuner until I replaced cable ends and removed a splitter. The strength showed as low to mid 80's but would not tune on tuner 2.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

I've been reluctant to try pulling cablecards to diagnose this problem. I had a little trouble getting them initialized properly and don't want to mess anything up. Is there a recommended procedure for pulling the cards, testing the S3, and re-installing the cards? Will I have to get new cards?

(I should mention that I've tried restarting the S3 and repeated guided setup, with no effect. Signal strength shows about 96.)


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

Ok after posting in the wrong thread I see that this is the one I should have done the me too in. I am on my 2nd unit where tuner #2 won't tune some analog channels but the channels are different on this one than the first(see my other post for details). The problem channels seem to drift within a specific range depending on how long that tuner was tuned to digital cable. The issue has been escalated to engineering. Also I have pulled and swapped the cards but the problem persists on tuner #2.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lemketron said:


> OK, so if Comedy Central (analog channel 63, I believe, on Comcast in Sunnyvale) is sometimes showing up as flickering between a picture and a blank screen, how do I figure out if that is (as some have suggested) a bad (or intermittently bad) analog tuner, or a cable card issue?


Under Messages & Setting -> Setting -> Channels there is a cable signal strength meter. That meter will only show digital channels. If you can tune COmedy Central in the screen then it's digital and it's possible it's a CableCARD issue. If not then it's analog and it can't be a CableCARD issue.

Dan


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> See, this is the kind of lousy diagnostics that really irritates me. Of course swapping the S3 fixes it, since you're redoing every piece of the set up.
> 
> The real issue is much more likely the set up of the cable card. But rather than isolate a problem, and perhaps look at the CC configurations, people look for the broadest, most coarse action possible.
> 
> Bizarre (to me).


Consumers buy S3s to use them, not to figure out why certain components don't work. If swapping S3 units solves the problem, why not? Many people have analog tuner problems without CableCards, including my first S3 which I returned.


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## g808 (Sep 14, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> See, this is the kind of lousy diagnostics that really irritates me. Of course swapping the S3 fixes it, since you're redoing every piece of the set up.
> 
> The real issue is much more likely the set up of the cable card. But rather than isolate a problem, and perhaps look at the CC configurations, people look for the broadest, most coarse action possible.
> 
> Bizarre (to me).


I did many, many, many troubleshooting activities to isolate the issue and they all pointed to faulty hardware. I even did more troubleshooting than TiVo support suggested, and they too finally suggested I exchange it. I was willing to work with them as long as it took for them to find the issue, so they could possibly fix whatever may have been wrong.


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## beejay2 (Sep 24, 2006)

I was missing several random analog cable channels and was told by Tivo it was a signal strength problem. Comcast came out and agreed my signal strength was low inside the house and added an amp. General analog quality improved significantly and channels were received. A few weeks later I noticed that I again couldn't receive several analog channels.

I Called Comcast to say I wasn't get the channels and they came out. They fixed the channels and told me it was a pairing problem. Don't know if that was true because I am not an expert and don't want to be, but it did convince me it was a comcast problem not a Tivo problem. 

I've come to realize that as early adopters our role is to act as training opportunities for the cable companies. I have to say that after years of horrible service from Comcast here in Chester County PA that I have been pleasantly surprised at the willingness (if not the expertise) of everyone at Comcast to stick with the problem until it is resolved. I used to shutter when I had to make a call and included a request for Fios in my nightly prayers. (Too many trees for satellite). Now I'm a pretty satisfied customer.


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## JanS (Oct 18, 2004)

Hi All,

I didn't read the whole thread yet, but wanted to mention that I also had noticed that some of the analog channels in perhaps the 30-something range up to the 90s did indeed go missing. I mostly noticed that 38 - EPSN analog had gone missing, but I watch the HD version so I don't really miss it. But I did miss 40 - FSBA since I was expecting a Sharks hockey game to be recorded last and it wasn't plus the TiVo didn't have any thing noting a recording in the ToDo list before nor a missed, deleted, etc. after the fact, i.e. no mention of it. I'm thinking now that that may have been since these higher numbered analogs went missing for a few days.

I *think* it happened on both cablecards, but I'm not certain. I was until this morning having a problem with one of my cablecards, a long standing problem that had the same symtoms. But the loss of the some of the analog channels I've only noticed this last couple of days..

But at any rate, whatever problem I was having with receiving higher numbered analogs is now resolved. And through no action on my part that I can tell.

Cheers,
--jans


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Under Messages & Setting -> Setting -> Channels there is a cable signal strength meter. That meter will only show digital channels. If you can tune COmedy Central in the screen then it's digital and it's possible it's a CableCARD issue. If not then it's analog and it can't be a CableCARD issue.
> Dan


Comcast in my area (Nashville, TN) does use digital simulcast. My Motorola 3412 DVR, which has only digital tuners, will pick up all the channels below 100. If I tune the Series 3 to an analog channel (using its "good" tuner) and go to the signal strength meter, the meter jumps to the first digital channel and will not tune any of the analog channels. Apparently, my S3 cablecards are not remapping the analog channels to their digital counterparts as was mentioned earlier. So does this indicate that the problem is not a cablecard issue?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

it would appear that, yes, the card is not set right and they need to change it at the headend.

Keep in mind though there MIGHT be drawbacks to getting the digital versions of 1-99. 

First - check the quality with your moto dvr and make sure it is equal or better than what the S3 does with the analog versions. 

Second- you open yourself up to all the phone with digital copyright flags. Lately there have not been a lot of posts about problems with that- but it is another layer of failure with the cablecards that you need to worry about. ALso- it seems some providers are flagging some or even ALL of there digital channels with a CCI of 0x02 which is "copy once"- right now that's no problem as the flag permits the DVR to record and copy the show once. But if MRV and/or TTG ever get enabled than that may limit your options. Analog content is typically unflagged so you would be permitted to move that all over in any manner if MRV or TTG get approved.


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## kmp14 (Sep 18, 2003)

I do not have cable cards and I am having the same problem. If it is a signal problem, why is it only on one tuner? There is some MAJOR bug in that unit, or an epidemic number of bad tuners out there. I say epidemic because even with the small sampling of users on this forum, it seems to be happening ALOT. Those that write it off as CC problems, REMEMBER, there are many of us having the problem that are not using cable cards.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I think much is cablecard. But I also think there are some weird tuner interactions that occur on cetain providers.

You'd have to search but I seem to recall some weird tuner issue with the early S2's where a particular channel (like 37?) failed on certain people for whatever reason. I think it was similar- not exactly a huge number of people effected but enough that it wasn't just random defects. If I recall somehow they fixed that with a software update- so if it's similar in theory a future software update could help any such issues with the S3 (assuming it's similar in nature).


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> it would appear that, yes, the card is not set right and they need to change it at the headend.


When I called Comcast, the first CSR I got didn't know what digital simulcast was. I called again and got a more knowledgeable person; he thought that the cablecards should be picking up the digital version of the analog channels, but didn't know why they weren't and had no solution.

Next I called TiVo, and after going through a few troubleshooting steps (such as removing a splitter--which had no effect) the tech agreed that it was probably a hardware problem. They are sending me a new S3. I'll report whether or not this fixes the problem.

(The TiVo tech had not heard of this problem of one tuner not working on several analog channels. That's surprising considering the number of posters reporting the problem on this forum. However, the tech said that they don't monitor the forums.)


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Comcast has to program the CableCards to map the digital simulcast channels. How to get Comcast to do it is another story. This has nothing to do with TiVo.


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## kmp14 (Sep 18, 2003)

My theory is that, since the S3 only lets 2 tuners be active at a time, but there are actually more than 2, there is some bug that is having a problem switching between the different tuner types.

Reminder - it is not just CableCard users, read the thread.

What are the chances that the SAME exact problem is happening with and without cable cards, BUT WHEN it happens with CCs, CCs are the cause - come on, this seems highly unlikely. It is a problem with their tuner logic (or hardware), regardless of how it is being tuned. CableCards are not even tuners, just authorizers.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

kmp14 said:


> ....
> 
> What are the chances that the SAME exact problem is happening with and without cable cards, BUT WHEN it happens with CCs, CCs are the cause - come on, this seems highly unlikely. It is a problem with their tuner logic (or hardware), regardless of how it is being tuned. CableCards are not even tuners, just authorizers.


WHile clearly there appear to be some bugs in tivo- blaming all similar cases of this on tivo I think is misguided. There can be many differnt things that casue similar issues.

One such example is digital content getting marked for deletion after 90 minutes. It seems clear to me at this point that there was a bug in 8.0.1a that caused some random occurances of that for whatever reason. I was afflicted with them. But I can also say that my provider set the flags wrong on several channels. They corrected that on their end. So my box at first was deleting tons of content after 90 minutes (which BTW is illegal)- and some of it was TiVo's bug, and some of it was a mistake by my provider.


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## ballardthedome (Sep 22, 2004)

Hearncl, please do post after you receive/setup your new S3 and let us know if that fixes the problem.

I'm on Comcast in Redwood City, CA with two cable cards and I'm having pretty much the exact same issue. My wife complained of missing a couple shows and I went to that channel (45) and got a blank screen with the error msg "Searching for signal on: Cable In." I went back and checked again a couple days later (on both tuners) and seemed to be able to get that channel and others near it just fine.

Checked again tonight after having read this post this afternoon. Now one of my tuners is unable to get channels 44-52. My other tuner on the Series 3, as well as my Series 1, both receive those channels just fine.

Checked the diags screen and it does appear all my stations below 60 are all analog, so my next test is going to be trying to pull the Cable Card to see if that makes any difference, but I think I'm saving that for another night.

I did call Tivo and talked to them. They didn't really have any suggestions for me, but did offer to replace my Series 3. Hoping I don't have to do that, but good to know they're willing to do that without much fuss.


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## jgubman (Mar 7, 2002)

ballardthedome said:


> Hearncl, please do post after you receive/setup your new S3 and let us know if that fixes the problem.
> 
> I'm on Comcast in Redwood City, CA with two cable cards and I'm having pretty much the exact same issue. My wife complained of missing a couple shows and I went to that channel (45) and got a blank screen with the error msg "Searching for signal on: Cable In." I went back and checked again a couple days later (on both tuners) and seemed to be able to get that channel and others near it just fine.
> 
> ...


Same experience w/ Comcast in Burlingame, CA. Can't receive 44-52. When I check via the "Cable Card" -> "Test Channels" I can see them on Cable Card 1 but not Cable Card 2. Playing w/ swapping tuners via the "Live TV" button and navigating through that range I can't see them w/ either tuner.

Series 1 and TV both get the channels w/ no problems.


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## jgubman (Mar 7, 2002)

Question for those getting replacements for those who purchased through the Tivo Store.

Does getting a replacement mean shipping it back to Tivo and waiting for a new unit, or will they send a replacement and then you send the broken one back?

I've returned my set tob box back to comcast, so I'm a little reluctant to be completely w/o any HD tuner for the weeks it takes to get a replacement...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

If you put another $800 down (as security against the return of the broken unit), they'll send you a replacement before getting your broken unit back.


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

bicker said:


> If you put another $800 down (as security against the return of the broken unit), they'll send you a replacement before getting your broken unit back.


Has anyone else done this and noticed that the replacement unit smells of electronics rework chemicals? A friend reported noticing that after having his unit swapped out (as well as having a dimmer display, which he noticed because his original display was much brighter).

I fear my unit may need to be replaced for this analog tuner problem, but I'm not looking forward to swapping it out. I'm also not looking forward to losing all of the "never delete" programs I've already accumulated. Maybe I'll wait a while longer to give them a little more time to track down and fix any other 1.0 hardware glitches.


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## Slowdrag (Apr 19, 2003)

I had this same problem since I bought my S3. Finally, on visit #4, the tech that arrived called the head-end to make certain the "package" I was subscribed to was set correctly. It wasn't. The person add the proper "tiers," and bam! All the channels came clear.

I know for a fact, however, that during the other 3 tech visits we verified the same thing: that the "tiers" were set properly. Each time we were told they were, but this time it worked.

I'm convinced this was luck. Right people. Right place. Right time. 

Other than that, Charter is still working out the kinks blindly. They have no idea what they're doing, and most of the workers don't know what an S3 is. 

Anyway. Make sure the "head-end" has things set correctly. That could be the problem ... or not.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Slowdrag said:


> I had this same problem since I bought my S3. Finally, on visit #4, the tech that arrived called the head-end to make certain the "package" I was subscribed to was set correctly. It wasn't. The person add the proper "tiers," and bam! All the channels came clear.


 Then those channels that you were missing were not "analog". The CableCards only authorize the encrypted digital channels. CableCard issues would never prevent analog channels from tuning. If they truly are analog channels then it must have been shear coincidence they started tuning while messing around with CableCards. If you have digital simulcast in your area then the sub-100 channels are all mapped to digital when you have CableCards and hence are not analog when using CableCards.


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

There is no simulcast in my area. I get missing channels after I have watched digital channels. If I leave both tuners tuned to analog long enough the missing channels come back. Very odd...


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

ballardthedome said:


> Hearncl, please do post after you receive/setup your new S3 and let us know if that fixes the problem. . . . . . . . . . .


I received and set up my replacement Series 3. The news is both good and bad.

Recall that the original problem was not being able to receive some of the analog channels on one of the S3 tuners--a problem that quite a few other posters on this forum have had. I called TiVo on Oct. 25 and received a replacement S3 on Oct. 31. It was a brand new unit with all cables, remote, etc. (Since when exchanging a unit you are not supposed to send back the original remote and cables, I am going to be awash in extra remotes and cables when this is over.)

I removed the original S3 and connected the replacement. After startup, I went through guided setup--with no cablecards installed--and started checking the analog channels. I was dismayed that a few of the lower-numbered channels gave the dreaded gray screen and "Searching for signal..." message. This happened only when using Tuner Zero (as indicated by the Diagnostic screen). However, all the other analog channels were tuned by both tuners. I realized that I had not set the TiVo to output at 720p, the resolution of my TV. After doing this, it seemed to help the tuning problem--but I don't think this was the cause. After awhile I was able to tune all but one or two channels on Tuner Zero (5 and 6, I believe), so perhaps the warmup of the unit helped (which might indicate that the tuning problem is temperature-related).

I had left the two cablecards in the original S3. I pulled them out and installed them in the new S3, using the procedure recommended on the TiVo customer support web site. Although the cards had been activated for the original unit, when I plugged in each card I got the gray/black CableCard data screen. A call to Comcast re-activated both cards in a short time.

I used the Test Channels menu item for each cablecard slot and went through all the analog and digital channels. All the channels, included those that I originally had trouble with, could be tuned. After rerunning Guided Setup, further testing indicated that all the analog and digital channels were being tuned on both tuners.

Now the bad news. I had been concentrating on testing channel tuning, but somewhere along the way I noticed that there was no clock display on the S3. Also, I found that there was no display of a program being recorded. After checking to be sure the clock was not turned off (a menu setting), I unplugged and replugged the S3. This had no effect. The front panel LEDs are working, but apparently the alphanumeric display is not.

A call to TiVo confirmed that the display of my replacement S3 is probably defective. A third S3 is on the way. They said it will be sent second day air, and I also received an email with a UPS return label.

It appears that TiVo may have a quality control problem.


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## jdmass (Dec 1, 2002)

I too received a replacement S3 as a result of the analog station loss problem. For me the problem is not consistently the same stations. It varies among stations in the range from 28 to 45. For example, one time it might be 30-33, another time it's 38-42, etc. Also often if I leave the channel tuned in, it actually buffers video, so if I rewind a few seconds, I can actually watch it -- very weird!

Unfortunately the replacement Tivo was actually worse than the original. It seemed to have problems tuning in the entire range between 28 and 45. As a result, I kept the original and sent back the replacement (as an aside, I also preferred the orange display of the original to the light green display of the replacement).

Since the no-nothings at Charter require an installer to come out to get the cablecards re-paired, I had him replace the cablecard to the tuner exhibiting the problem and check the signal strength across all analog and digital ranges (they declared them to be fine). 

So this is IMHO clearly a Tivo problem. I sincerely hope that it is something that they can fix via software. Given the fact that they are sending out replacement boxes that don't fix the problem, it appears that they don't really know what it is!


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## old64mb (Apr 11, 2005)

I'm still dealing with them on this issue - engineering is calling me the next couple of days since I seem to be relatively unique in not running any cable cards or HD to narrow it down to a pure tuner issue - but as a headsup the supervisor I spoke with mentioned a hard reset (e.g. pulling the plug, not just rebooting) had served as a workaround for others . Reminds me of the Series 2 problem where there was a problem with programs cutting off that it took them a while to find. I'll keep everyone updated.

I'll let you folks know if that works


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

Was starting to wonder if anything was going forward on this. Was gonna call my self as I haven't heard anything back from them in a while. Don't want another unit until they get this figured out. As it stands I will have to take a week off to watch all the stuff on my current box before I send it back if I have to get another replacement. I keep hoping they can issue a software fix.


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## jgubman (Mar 7, 2002)

Hard restart didn't solve anything for me...


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

hearncl said:


> ........A call to TiVo confirmed that the display of my replacement S3 is probably defective. A third S3 is on the way.........


I received the second replacement S3 yesterday. Everything seems to work--analog channels are tuned, display works, etc.

This S3 appears to have a different (updated?) software version. On the first two, Now Playing came with several short TiVo training videos preinstalled, and did not show my networked Series 2 TiVo. The present S3 did not have the TiVo videos, but does show the S2 in Now Playing. However, programs recorded on the S2 cannot be listed, presumably because transfers are not yet available for the S3.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

hearncl, what's your software version number?


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

c3 said:


> hearncl, what's your software version number?


Version 8.0.1a-01-2-648. I haven't been keeping up with software versions. Is this the latest?


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

No, the latest should be 8.0.1b.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

I think the reason I can now see my networked TiVos is that a few days ago, I set the transfer flag for the S3 under my account on the TiVo site--nothing to do with the software version.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

That's very interesting. The checkbox was not there for S3 a few days ago. Now I can set those flags on the "DVR preferences" page, but on the "Overview" page, it still says "Not currently available".


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

I checked the boxes and from now playing I now see my S2s listed and the S2s see the S3.

Of course you can't actually connect to 'em, but the Tivo sees them out there .


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

So any of you guys ever get this issue resolved? I am still waiting on the supposed November update to see if it fixes this problem. Called the other day to see if there was some new information on this problem and I got the 'I have never heard of this' line from tier2 tech support. I am really starting to think they are clueless on what is causing this.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

r11roadster said:


> Called the other day to see if there was some new information on this problem and I got the 'I have never heard of this' line from tier2 tech support. I am really starting to think they are clueless on what is causing this.


These problems have been reported so much that I have a hard time resisting the temptation to accuse a CSR saying that of outright lying. When I tried to report a similar problem TiVo tech support did seem to push the easier (for them) solutions, rather than the solutions that would actually determine the problem and prevent it from recurring -- the basic quality management stuff we've been teaching for 50 years.


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## dperovic (Dec 21, 2001)

I'm having the same issue with my Series 3 using analog cable. One of my tuners will not tune in the range of 87-105 when watching live tv. Every once in a while I will get a picture flashing on and off for a 1/2 second. I'm pretty sure my recordings are still "working" on these channels. However, I can a low click in the audio and two white thin squiggly lines in the picture when watching the recording for TiVo Suggestions.

I'm on the phone now trying to get another replacement unit, but have already been hung up on once by a rep who thought my problem could be fixed by placing a check mark next to the channel I want to tune to in the setup menus. I'm pretty sure the disconnection was a mistake, but now I'm waiting another 20 minutes just to get to someone who's going to read from a script.

Does anyone know any tricks on getting directly to Tier 2?


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

channels over 100 are digital are you sure you don't have digital simulcast of your analog channels? Mention that you seeing the same problem that others on the forum are seeing and ask to talk to someone higher up.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I'm missing 3 channels with cablecard 1 and 1 channel with cablecard 2. All analog and my cableco doesn't do simulcast. It all started today and if I record the missing channel it looks fine but with a strange horizontal artifact, very thin. I also have the dreadful "video but no audio" on channels IFC,HISTI,FUSE,DIY,FUEL and BIO. I only care about IFC but it's annoying nevertheless.

Sergio


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## misaochankun (May 14, 2002)

I was directed here, since I have the same problem with my S3.

I am on Insight Cable, with two cable cards.
Channels from 30-52 approx. on Tuner #2 will not always come in, instead getting the gray screen, with occasional blips of the show for a split second.
Tuner #1 sees these channels just fine.
I removed both cards, and this issue still exists.
I even swapped the cards, card 1 to tuner 2, and vice versa, and Tuner #2 is still the problem, not the cable card.

The cable company gladly replaced the cable card, but that did not fix the issue.
They verified that my signal is quite good, and I have a direct cable connection from the box to the Tivo.

I suppose it may be time for me to call up Tivo, after reading this posting.

I'll also confirm that these are truly analog channels, verified by the cable company.
I also live in a newer house, with good cabling.


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## gbrown (Oct 31, 2006)

Folks - Digital cable is VERY signal sensitive. three things to consider 
1) Are ALL the unused Cable taps in your house properly terminated
2) If you are using a splitter, the device must be relatively new in order to pass the high frequency signals. 
3) If you are using any "push-on" cable connectors like used to be supplied with VCRs, get rid of them and buy the screw-on" types.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

gbrown said:


> Folks - Digital cable is VERY signal sensitive. three things to consider


What if about 40 feet of the house cabling is RG-59, probably dating back to the 1970s?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

It's not a signal issue. My signal is quite strong and was recently reviewed by the cableco. We are talking about the analog channels, the same channels that I can perfectly get using 3 cableboxes and 2 TVs woth QAM tuners. The signal to the S3 is the strongest one. I have the S3 for 2 months now and the problems with these channels started only today. If I remove the cablecards everything is fine with all the analog channels. It's the combination CC/S3 that is not working as it should. My guess is that there is a software glitch on the S3, most likely some error treatment routine . Almost everybody with more than 2 TVs/cableboxes is using some sort of split/amp and we know that these things introduce a lot of strange artifacts. Maybe the S3 has a poor error recovery system compared to a cablebox.

Sergio


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Analog channels have nothing to do with QAM tuners. If you have problem when you insert the CableCards, then you're really getting the digital simulcast version of those channels, not analog. You can verify it by checking the diagnostics screen to see if it says QAM.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

r11roadster said:


> So any of you guys ever get this issue resolved? I am still waiting on the supposed November update to see if it fixes this problem. Called the other day to see if there was some new information on this problem and I got the 'I have never heard of this' line from tier2 tech support. I am really starting to think they are clueless on what is causing this.


Since I started this thread, I'll update my situation. TiVo replaced my first two S3s, the first for the channel tuning problem and the second for a bad OLED display. Although the CSR wouldn't admit to hearing of the tuning problem, there was no hesitation in replacing my unit. My third S3 is fine. Initially, there was one analog channel (42) I couldn't tune on Tuner 0, but on later testing this channel tunes OK.

I seem to remember that the Motorola 6412 DVR had problems with one of its tuners. At that time (a year or so ago) it was speculated that there was an internal splitter which divided the incoming cable signal between the two tuners, and that the signal to one of the tuners was stronger than to the other tuner. So perhaps the S3's tuning problem is related to the quality of an internal splitter. This is pure speculation--just a thought.


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

I have a feeling that this is a HW issue also. the ambient room temperature has been in the mid to high 60s. when left on analog channels I have no problems. I believe tuning digital generates more heat causing me to start loosing channels starting @14. the longer it goes the higher up the dial the channel loss goes. The other day I cranked up my space heater and got it a toasty 76deg F and lo and behold I was missing channel 15 despite not having tuned any digital channels. of course once I did tune in a digital channel the missing channel crept up the dial.


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## misaochankun (May 14, 2002)

I called Tivo support, and they had me remove cable cards and redo guided setup.
Same issue of course existed, but I had to call in again once it finished.

This time I got a new tech that said they are aware of this issue, and that the next software update for S3 is having a fix included.
He said there is no current way to get priority downloads for S3, but that it should happen in the next week.
I am guessing this is the afore mentioned November Update.
We'll see what happens.


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

They told me the same thing. Supposed to fix the black & white issue also. Crossing fingers as I would just assume keep this box than have to wait on the cable co to reinstall some new cards.


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## Wand (Nov 25, 2006)

Hello all,

New to this forum, but considering I used it to help resolve my missing analog channel issue I thought I owed it to you to post. I purchased my first series 3 roughly a month and a half ago. My cable provider is Mediacom out of Marshalltown, Iowa. I got my cable cards installed and noticed that on cable card 2 I seemed to be missing random analog cable channels (the digital and hd worked fine). I called tivo support a few days after they said it was a known issue with the motorolla cablecards and that a tivo engineer would call me (which they never did).

I sorta forgot about it for a little while until the missing channels switched from cablecard 2 to cable card 1 and I started getting failed recordings. I called tivo three or four times and they had me check my channel listings, buy a signal amplifier, and restart and unplug my tivo, all which did nothing to fix my problem. They told me that it was a problem with the cablecards and that I needed to contact Mediacom to get it fixed.

Instead of listening, I unplugged both of my cablecards and reran the guided setup and I was still missing the same set of analog channels that I was when the cable cards were installed. So I called tivo again went through maybe another 3 hours of dialogue with them until I finally convinced them to exchange it. 

I received my new series 3 last week which has a yellow display for the clock and recording screen instead of the orange, which I'm read online means a later manufacturing date then my original. I took the cable cards out of my old tivo installed them in the new (without reactivation, I just plugged them in and went) and ran the guided setup. As of a week of usage everything is working great. I've gone through all the channels on both tuners numerous times and can find no gaps in channel coverage. So an exchange solved my issue without any change in my cable providers signal or card settings.

Thank you all for posting your experiences, it gave me a starting point beyond the sometimes less then informative people at tivo support. Good luck resolving your own issues.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

My S3 worked for more than a month without losing a single analog chanel. My problem started few days ago and it doesn't happen always. Today all my channels are OK, yesterday I was missing 3 or 4 on one tuner and 1 or 2 on the other one. The channels are always in the 30-50 range. Sometimes I can't watch but recording is fine. Sometimes the recording shows a thin horizontal line moving on the screen. I will wait for the next software upgrade before trying to exchange my unit.

Sergio


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

slimoli said:


> I will wait for the next software upgrade before trying to exchange my unit.


Have you called them to document the problem? It's best to have it on record, ya know CYA


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

r11roadster said:


> Have you called them to document the problem? It's best to have it on record, ya know CYA


I'm counting on my 4 year protection plan I bought from Circuit City.

Sergio


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I believe such protection plans will only fix hardware. It won't magically make software problems go away.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

True, but as I said I will wait for the next software upgrade and if it doesn't work I will try to replace the unit. I do have some more issues, like no audio at all on 7 channels. It's strange the fact that my missing analog channels are not always the same, although in the same range (40-55) .

Sergio


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

slimoli said:


> True, but as I said I will wait for the next software upgrade and if it doesn't work I will try to replace the unit. I do have some more issues, like no audio at all on 7 channels. It's strange the fact that my missing analog channels are not always the same, although in the same range (40-55) .
> 
> Sergio


Just curious - do you use an OTA antenna? If not, you might want to cap the OTA coax connector with a terminating resistor. I was having a problem on my S3 where only one tuner would pick up local HD stations over cable. The other tuner would constantly pixelate and was unwatchable. Once I capped the OTA input, both tuners started working fine. I've since added an OTA antenna and I still don't have any problems.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Yes, I do use an OTA antenna. Thanks anyway.


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## hglass (Oct 12, 2005)

I have my S3 for about 3 days. I use Cablevision of Woodbury (L.I., N.Y.) I can't regularly get channels from 34-46. Sometimes I can but most times I get seaching for channel. I have not installed the cable cards yet. They are to be installed Thursday. All my other sets get these channels. I called Tivo but the only thing they can do is exchange my S3. If I go that route I hope the new one will be better than the one I have now


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Just be sure you've gotten a "good one" well before your 30 day guarantee period expires.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

vman41 said:


> What if about 40 feet of the house cabling is RG-59, probably dating back to the 1970s?


RG59 is the correct impedence but has higher loss and less shielding than RG6. I dont think 40' would make a big difference as long as the signal strength is ok.


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## Austin_Martin (Sep 13, 2006)

> Have you called them to document the problem? It's best to have it on record, ya know CYA


I just tried to do that. It seems that this is a well known issue now, as the support person knew what I was talking about right away. He said it's definately a software issue, and that the new software is in beta testing and should be available in the next 2-3 weeks.

I asked if I should get the problem documented, in case it's hardware, as my warranty might be over by the time the software is updated. He said not necessary, as it's definately a software issue.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

If the CSR was correct (  ), so much for the update being in November.


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## mkempa (Dec 1, 2006)

I just got my Tivo hooked up two days ago. The cable cards (Comcast) were installed yesterday and I noticed right away that Card 2 was not recieving channels in the 31 to 40 range Slot 1 worked fine. We tried another CC in slot 2, but it had the same problem. We then swapped the card in Slot 1 to Slot 2 and had the same problem. I let the installer leave since this seems clearly to be an issue with Tivo.

I am not sure if I should waste more time by calling Tivo support, or just wait for a software update.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Waiting will end up with you losing your ability to take advantage of any 30-day guarantee you might have. That was all I was saying. Your choice, though.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

mkempa said:


> I just got my Tivo hooked up two days ago. The cable cards (Comcast) were installed yesterday and I noticed right away that Card 2 was not recieving channels in the 31 to 40 range Slot 1 worked fine. We tried another CC in slot 2, but it had the same problem. We then swapped the card in Slot 1 to Slot 2 and had the same problem. I let the installer leave since this seems clearly to be an issue with Tivo.


Those channels are not in the digital range. I believe that most people with this problem (missing analog channels on one tuner) have found that it is not a cablecard issue. In my case, TiVo exchanged my S3 and the new one didn't have the problem. There's some speculation that an upcoming software update will fix the problem, but that remains to be seen. I suggest calling TiVo support and at least get your problem documented.


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## sdurgin (Jun 6, 2004)

slimoli said:


> The channels are always in the 30-50 range. Sometimes I can't watch but recording is fine. Sometimes the recording shows a thin horizontal line moving on the screen. I will wait for the next software upgrade before trying to exchange my unit.


I've seen the same problem. Currently I have cable card issues with Time Warner but had called Tivo to help debug. I explained the same issue you describe (now viewing but recording the program with horizontal line) and the CSR said he had not heard of that problem.

You need to call Tivo and describe the issue. The more they hear about it... the more likely it is to get fixed.

My bigger problem is tha both my cable cards suddenly decided to not see any digital channels and it takes until the 11th to get TW tech out to work on them.


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## musictoo (Oct 8, 2003)

Add me to the list. TW in Albany NY. Tuner 2 missing 25-42. I'm on my 3rd cablecard with no change. The TiVo CSR I spoke to tonight said that it was a software issue that would be addressed with long awaited update that will be released "next week or the week after, but don't hold me to that".


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

musictoo said:


> Add me to the list. TW in Albany NY. Tuner 2 missing 25-42. I'm on my 3rd cablecard with no change. The TiVo CSR I spoke to tonight said that it was a software issue that would be addressed with long awaited update that will be released "next week or the week after, but don't hold me to that".


I have the same problem with TW in Albany NY. Also on Tuner 2.

After the initial install of the cablecards, tuner 2 has problems with analog channels from 25-42.

Since then TW returned, switched the cablecards between the Tuner 1 slot and the Tuner 2 slot, and the problem continued on Tuner 2. I doubt it is the cablecards.

Of course when I called Tivo, the CSR said it had to be the cablecards.

Let's hope a software update will fix the problem and keep each other informed if we fix the problem.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

hearncl said:


> Those channels are not in the digital range.


That's not clear. In places with digital simulcasting of analog channels, low-numbered channels may be mapped from digital channels.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Although this doesn't seem to be a cablecard problem, it only happens when the cablecards are in. If I remove my cablecards, all analog channels are fine. With the cablecards, few analog channels disappear but not always. When they disappear they are in the range 40-50 and if I record them the picture shows the horizontal line. This is the 2nd most annoying bug that I have, the first is the total lack of audio on few digital channels (DIY,FUSE,FUEL,IFC,BIO,HISTI).

Sergio


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

Because it only happens with the cablecards in, it really seems to be a digital simulcast problem.

Mine did this at first but it hasn't come back. I did go remove the digital smulcast channels from the channels I receive. On Cox Phoenix they are the analog channel numbers prefixed by an 8. Channel 35 is 835 etc.

My cablecards map the digital simulcast channels even though I can't tune them. I just get a black screen if I try.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

As others have implied: have you checked that it is missing analog, and not digital, channels? Eg, my channel 27 is an analog channel if I do not have my cable cards in (or am using an S2 TiVo), but is a 480i digital channel when I use my S3 TiVo with cablecards. This is the digital simulcasting that others have talked about. So it could be the cablecards, and/or your cable system having problems as they switch over to simulcasting (telling the TiVo to tune in that channel on an improper address). What does the system/diagnostic screen say when you are having problems?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I got no digital simulcast. My analog channels are pure analog.

Sergio


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## iMan3001 (Nov 29, 2006)

I am also missing channels, but when one goes out they all do. I have to restart my TiVo if I want to see anything again. In the process of going out I get a shaky picture with horizontal lines running through. Every time I see that I know it is about to go out. Happens on recorded programs and Live TV. I have reported to TiVo, I got the same reply - it is a known issue and a fix will be out in about a week.


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## rltoombs (Aug 24, 2002)

Could it maybe be something else? Maybe a heat issue?

I got my S3 TiVo on Thursday, and the cable cards have not yet been installed--I'm running the cable from the wall directly into the back of the TiVo. Twice now, I've received the same error message others have reported, along with a blank screen.

But I noticed something--during these two instances, I had been working on setting things up (new flat-panel as well), so the TiVo had been sitting on the floor, on my short-pile carpet. When I put it up on a box, the problem simply disappeared, without rerunning Guided Setup or anything.

Maybe putting the S3 on the carpet blocked some vents or otherwise caused the unit to heat up, but once it was on a flat, level surface it was able to vent properly and didn't overheat. Similarly, I'm wondering whether maybe people might have their S3s in cabinets, or in some other way situated where they're not getting sufficient ventilation.

Pure guesswork on my part, but I thought it was worth putting the idea out there.


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## Art_B (Mar 6, 2004)

I would very much agree that the problem is due to some TiVo tuners being temperature sensitive on analog channels. On my unit, on tuner 0, I have had problems with drop out of multiple analog channels, with the drop out centered around channel 57. On tuner 1, with the same signal, I have no drop out problems.

From testing I've done on my Series 3, tuner 0 appears to be sensitive to temperature, but not to signal strength. Tuner 1 works fine. I trouble shot the problem by using the TiVo diagnostics to monitor the unit's internal temperature and signal lock (or lack of) on analog channels. The problem consistently shows up with the TiVo in the house (room at 68 F). After turn on of the TiVo, as the unit warms up during operation, the problem gets worse and a wider range of channels drop out. 

As a test, I moved the TiVo to my garage (room temperature of 40 F), and connected it to the cable feed into the house. The signal is much stronger in my garage then in my living room. Initially the problem still appeared on tuner 0. But after letting the TiVo sit in the cold garage for awhile, the problem cleared up. When I brought the TiVo back into the house, tuner 0 initially failed on a few channels, but then failed on more as it warmed up. 

The fact that this failure only occurs on tuner 0, but not on tuner 1, also shows that the problem is not due to the strength of the cable signal in the house.

If you want to check the TiVo internal temperature, you can do the sequence; TiVo -> Messages and Settings -> Account and System Information -> System Information. 

In my case, with the internal temperature of the TiVo at 43 C, tuner 0 failed over a wide range of channels. In the garage, with the TiVo at an internal temperature of 40 C, a few channels failed. In the garage with the TiVo at an internal temperature of 34 C, no channels failed.

I have reported all this to TiVo. They were polite, but asked that I wait for the software upgrade before they would let me return the unit.

I do have two CableCARDS installed in the TiVo. A side issue that has complicated diagnosis is that on some days, Comcast appears to transmit the channels in the 56-59 range in digital format, instead of analog. When the channels are transmitted digital format, I have no problem with either tuner. When the channels are transmitted in analog format, tuner 0 fails after warm up. When the channels are transmitted in digital format, the Signal Strength value will be in the high 90s. For analog signals, the Signal Strength value is 0. (My understanding is that the TiVo only shows a value for signal strength on digital channels.) When the unit starts to fail, the Signal Strength then shows Not Available.


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

musictoo said:


> Add me to the list. TW in Albany NY. Tuner 2 missing 25-42. I'm on my 3rd cablecard with no change. The TiVo CSR I spoke to tonight said that it was a software issue that would be addressed with long awaited update that will be released "next week or the week after, but don't hold me to that".


As I mentioned previously, I also have the same problem with TW in Albany.

For now I have gone into the Channel List and unselected all the analog channels that the S3 was having problems tuning to.

Since TW Albany also provides these channels in digital format at a higher channel number, this means the S3 can now record Tivo Suggestions on any of these channels with no problem.

Of course this means that I will need to find out the digital channel numbers to tune to the equivalent channel directly, but this is better than having half of the Tivo Suggestions recordings coming up blank.


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## Chas_M (Jul 26, 2005)

TexasAg said:


> Just curious - do you use an OTA antenna? If not, you might want to cap the OTA coax connector with a terminating resistor. I was having a problem on my S3 where only one tuner would pick up local HD stations over cable. The other tuner would constantly pixelate and was unwatchable. Once I capped the OTA input, both tuners started working fine. I've since added an OTA antenna and I still don't have any problems.


I use my S3 for analog reception only in SD format. No Cable Cards are involved. I have been suffering from the missing analog channels in the 30 to 50 range.
As a result of TexasAg terminating the OTA antenna with a terminating resistor (75 Ohm?) I thought I would have a good second tuner. No such luck! Tuner 1 of the 0/1 pair is still missing channels. My signal strength is is about is about 7dB estimated above the cable feed to the house. An 18dB multi-channel amplifier drives about 70 feet of RG6 cable. At the S3 there is an external 2 way splitter to the S3. Collectively, these add up to about 11 dB loss. All other TV systems, S2, and PC TV capture have no problems whatever with this channels range.

TIVO ... is this a SW fix or is it hardware? Let us know!


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## gregr (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm getting very tired of coming home to watch blank recordings or tuning to a channel only to see a blue banner reading, " Searching for Signal on Cable In." We all paid way too much money to spend hours troubleshooting a problem with so many variables and one that might not even have a solution. As a Serier 1 and 2 owner, I have almost worshipped TIVO -- I recommended it to everyone I know. Now I am embarrassed and wish I had never purchased an S3. My time is too valuable to spend it troubleshooting a poorly engineered device that may never work. The TIVO tech I just spoke with at least acknowledged that the dropping of channels could be a hardware problem which no downloadable software update can fix. 

Buyer Beware! Maybe if I short TIVO's stock I can make my $ back. Sorry if I sound harsh, but TIVO really let me, one of their most loyal fans, down. I just want the product I paid for to work as advertised. 

(I'm on my second unit -- I purchsed the first unit the week they went on sale. The replacement worked great for a month, but now the dropping of channels gets worse everyday)


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## lemketron (Jun 24, 2002)

gregr said:


> ...The TIVO tech I just spoke with at least acknowledged that the dropping of channels could be a hardware problem which no downloadable software update can fix...


I totally understand your frustration, but my approach so far has been to "sit back and wait" rather than get upset by swapping hardware, losing all of my already-recorded shows, taking a chance on getting a potentially worse (refurb) unit in exchange, etc. I realize that's tough to do after dropping $800, nor should we have to, but I guess that's life on the bleeding edge. (Says an original S1 owner who bought way back in 1999.)

It now seems my S3 is running the 3rd release of software (8.0.1b-01-2-648) and it sure feels like some of the early problems are getting better. I haven't been watching as much TV lately but I'm pretty sure there are less audio dropouts and other decoding glitches, and it feels like the analog problem is getting (or has gotten better) in that I haven't noticed any missed shows.

It _could _just be that the analog shows have been recording on my "good" tuner, or it could be that both tuners are fine. The thing that frustrates me more than the problems is the fact that it's so darn hard to troubleshoot the problems. Since I haven't had time to do that, I've just been waiting out the storm, as it appears that the software is in fact getting better (and maybe even a little faster in terms of UI responsiveness) with each release.

Hopefully the upcoming 8.1 release (which I noticed was mentioned in another thread here) will be even better, and hopefully TiVo is learning more about how to chase down (and fix) all of these issues which seemed to escape them (or didn't get prioritized high enough for some reason) before their initial S3 release.


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## sdurgin (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm opting for the replacement box.

On top of the analog station drop outs (which I have not seen of late) one tuner began freezing. Programming from hours ago would be stuck in the buffer. 

Replacement should ship tomorrow.

Now for cable card problems with Time Warner... that's another thread.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

It looks like TiVoJerry has confirmed this is a software issue. And it will be fixed in the next update.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

It's about time!


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