# The Walking Dead S3E6 - 11/18/12



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Still not liking the Governor.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Good ep and answered some questions from last ep. Why are the walkers not going after Michonne even though she doesn't have her pet zombies?


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> Good ep and answered some questions from last ep. Why are the walkers not going after Michonne even though she doesn't have her pet zombies?


She had the zombie guts spilled on her and it camouflaged her scent. Unless she refreshed it at some point, it sure seemed to last quite awhile.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Azlen said:


> She had the zombie guts spilled on her and it camouflaged her scent. Unless she refreshed it at some point, it sure seemed to last quite awhile.


I was thinking that too but she also had fresh human guts on her as well. They passed her by twice; once in the forest and at the prison gates it was like she didn't exist. Plus she had a fresh gunshot wound. We've seen people covered in zombie guts continue to get pursued by zombies throughout the entire series so this seemed a special case and she appeared surprised herself that they were ignoring her.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Great episode. I loved what is set up for upcoming episodes with the prison finally going to mix wit Woodbury. 

I liked the way they depicted that Rick was pulling out of his psychosis by having the connection on the "phone call" break up and eventually disconnect.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm guessing that many zombies have human guts on them but the zombie essence must supersede the human.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I pretty much think TWD is hitting on all cylinders this season. I haven't a preconception about the Governor, so I think he's doing fine. (Though his voice distracts me a bit... he sounds exactly like Holling from Northern Exposure.)

Anyway, worlds are colliding and I love it!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> I'm guessing that many zombies have human guts on them but the zombie essence must supersede the human.


Yeah, they established pretty early on that zombie guts are effective camouflage (unless it rains). She just never had reason to figure it out, which is why it surprised her when the zombies didn't attack.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I know they are all infected, but there was still a reason to chop off Hershel's leg, which has not been explained. I supposed we can just assume it's because of infection -- those walkers have seriously bad oral hygiene. So what about Michonne getting a zombie-gut shower, and then a bullet to the leg? Surely that's going to get infected.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It would seem that zombie bites can be fatal in and of themselves. Michonne wasn't bitten, so she only has the normal risks in being shot.

People have been regularly sprayed in the face with zombie bits without consequences. Taken together, it all doesn't really make much sense, but then again when you look at it too closely zombies themselves don't really make much sense.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'm seriously disappointment the phone call was a "dream."


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

This show is so depressing. Every time they get ahead something happens. rick pulls out of his insanity but now Glen and Maggie are going to get tortured.

Poor Andrea, she can't seem to get away from psycho sex.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Daryl's sharing a story about his Mom was touching. And interesting.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'm really looking forward to the Daryl-Merle family reunion.

That can't end well!


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm really looking forward to the Daryl-Merle family reunion.
> 
> That can't end well!


Yeah maybe he'll change from his Lifetime Movie Channel character back to good old boy Daryl.


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## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

I had read ahead on the spoilers and I knew who everyone said would be on the phone, but at first it seemed that they may go a different way........well played TWD, well played.

I really do think it would have been great drama to have a walker Lori break Rick out of his crazy phone call. Too much effort was put into the showing of Rick picking up the bullet and the "pot bellied" walker for her to just have been gobbled up.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Was Carol a walker in the end? or had she just been trapped in there, without any ammo or weapons and waiting for rescue. How long had it been?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

She was alive in there. Timelines are tough on this show. I'd say a couple days up to a week?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Was Carol a walker in the end? or had she just been trapped in there, without any ammo or weapons and waiting for rescue. How long had it been?


Not a walker. She was trapped. Can't have been more than a few days, looking at the timeline (Maggie and Glenn were out looking for formula)


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Hank said:


> I'm seriously disappointment the phone call was a "dream."


I must be dense as I missed that completely. Were all the phone calls imaginary or could the first calls be real. But as I type this I realize that the first call was a woman - was that Lori also? Part of the problem is I didn't recognize the voice, but I guess they added some static to make it harder.

If the woman's voice was Lori then who was the man?

Gerry


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I thought they were going to pan out on the phone and show it not even plugged in.

Oh Merle...you will never change.

Useless Talking Dead this week, which it usually is when they don't have anybody connected to the show as guests.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Gerryex said:


> I must be dense as I missed that completely. Were all the phone calls imaginary or could the first calls be real. But as I type this I realize that the first call was a woman - was that Lori also? Part of the problem is I didn't recognize the voice, but I guess they added some static to make it harder.
> 
> If the woman's voice was Lori then who was the man?
> 
> Gerry


They were all dead people from their group... four different people culminating in Lori. (I can't remember all of them)


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Gerryex said:


> I must be dense as I missed that completely. Were all the phone calls imaginary or could the first calls be real. But as I type this I realize that the first call was a woman - was that Lori also? Part of the problem is I didn't recognize the voice, but I guess they added some static to make it harder.
> 
> If the woman's voice was Lori then who was the man?
> 
> Gerry


The last voice (Lori's) was different than the original female voice and the male voice. That's when I started catching on that it was all a dream.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> Yeah maybe he'll change from his Lifetime Movie Channel character back to good old boy Daryl.


I think Daryl has become too close to Carol and the boy to fall back in with Merle. I predict that he will probably ultimately stand-up to (and possibly kill) Merle to protect Rick's group.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

She left us a biter-gram!

Did Merle get caught in a lie?
He said Michonne got the others then he got her. When Gov asked about her head and sword he said we got caught in a crowd and implied others had the trophies.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

MacThor said:


> Did Merle get caught in a lie?
> He said Michonne got the others then he got her. When Gov asked about her head and sword he said we got caught in a crowd and implied others had the trophies.


Yeah, the things he said all didn't add up.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'm really looking forward to see what happens with Michone now as I haven't been a big fan so far.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

markz said:


> I think Daryl has become too close to Carol and the boy to fall back in with Merle. I predict that he will probably ultimately stand-up to (and possibly kill) Merle to protect Rick's group.


+1


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

When Hershel went down to talk to Rick, that is when I first wondered if the phone calls were imaginary. Hershel didn't show any doubt that I can remember, but something about the scene made me think it probably wasn't real.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

robojerk said:


> Yeah, the things he said all didn't add up.


Merle isn't exactly a rocket scientist.

Which, in this case, will probably come back to (ahem) bite him.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I'm very excited to see the two different groups finally mixing it up!

I was a little bummed that Rick's phone call was a hallucination. At first when he was talking to the first woman I thought it was going to be some people underground in the Governor's place who know he's a bad guy and who want help.

I really like Maggie and Glenn and I really don't like that Merle has them. I was hoping Michonne would do something, but the only want to get out of that would have been to kill Merle, and that's not going to happen yet.

Glad they finally found Carol! On the timeline, it's been at most 48 hours since she went missing and more like just an overnight.

Day 1, early: Everyone is happy, walkers attack, they get separated.
Day 1, midday: Lori has baby, is toast. Carol is lost.
Day 1, afternoon: Rick freaks out, Daryl and Maggie go for formula; Michonne leaves.
Nighttime happens, because that's when the fight is at the Governor town.
Day 2: Rick gets the phone call, they find Carol, Michonne is hunted, Andrea bones another psycho.

The last three episodes have been in a very short time frame. It is possible that what I've called Day 2 above really spanned 2 days, but I don't think so. In any case, 24-48 hours max.



MacThor said:


> Did Merle get caught in a lie?
> He said Michonne got the others then he got her. When Gov asked about her head and sword he said we got caught in a crowd and implied others had the trophies.


No, he only said that Michonne killed one of the group, then he said the crowd killed the other two.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Merle isn't exactly a rocket scientist.
> 
> Which, in this case, will probably come back to (ahem) bite him.


He'll probably just get a slap on the wrist. The other wrist.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Hoffer said:


> When Hershel went down to talk to Rick, that is when I first wondered if the phone calls were imaginary. Hershel didn't show any doubt that I can remember, but something about the scene made me think it probably wasn't real.


I think Hershel picked up the phone, knew there was no dial tone, and knew that Rick was having a mental break.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I think Hershel picked up the phone, knew there was no dial tone, and knew that Rick was having a mental break.


That's what I saw, too...and figured that's why Hershel left so easily.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

Zevida said:


> I think Hershel picked up the phone, knew there was no dial tone, and knew that Rick was having a mental break.


Yeah, Hershel asked Rick if he should wait with him for the call and Rick said no.
Hershel knew he going bonkers.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I don't think Michone's "immunity" has anything to do with the zombie guts. I think she is somehow "immune" and possibly has some sort of a cure inside her. I suppose she has only been chased this whole time because she had Andrea by her side?

I don't understand all the hate towards the governor. He hasn't done anything that Rick and his group haven't done. If anything, the governor has done a much better job because he has created a fairly peaceful society. Rick and the crew don't have anything close to that at this point and they seem to be falling apart more and more everyday.

I'm disappointed that the phone calls turned out to be a dream. At what point does Rick completely lose it? He is heading down a path where the character may not be able to be redeemed. He will only have one fate once that happens.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

kaszeta said:


> Not a walker. She was trapped. Can't have been more than a few days, looking at the timeline (Maggie and Glenn were out looking for formula)


The weird thing about it is that Daryl, Carl, and Oscar were right outside the door talking, and the door kept moving open and closed so they assumed a walker was in there. So either Carol couldn't hear them and call out to them because she was unconscious, in which case the door should not have been moving. Or she was conscious and moving the door, and so should have been able to call to Daryl when she heard him talking right outside the door.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> I don't think Michone's "immunity" has anything to do with the zombie guts. I think she is somehow "immune" and possibly has some sort of a cure inside her. I suppose she has only been chased this whole time because she had Andrea by her side?
> 
> I don't understand all the hate towards the governor. He hasn't done anything that Rick and his group haven't done.


I'm thinking the same about immunity. . . that possibly she doesn't even know about. I don't hate the governor but I haven't seen anyone else with a wall of zombie head aquariums, zombie daughters in straight jackets (can't say I wouldn't do the same), or zombie gladiator fights not to mention killing the military guys wasn't very nice.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Zevida said:


> I'm very excited to see the two different groups finally mixing it up!
> 
> I was a little bummed that Rick's phone call was a hallucination. At first when he was talking to the first woman I thought it was going to be some people underground in the Governor's place who know he's a bad guy and who want help...


I was hoping it was somebody in the Governor's compound as well.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

We have already seen guts act as a masking agent. The immunity theory is kind of silly and I don't see how that would have anything to do with the zombies attacking her.

I enjoyed the comedic aspect of Rick asking if he could come to the secret sanctuary where no one was infected or turned. Umm... so you want to infect everyone?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I enjoyed the comedic aspect of Rick asking if he could come to the secret sanctuary where no one was infected or turned. Umm... so you want to infect everyone?


Obviously it was a hallucination so it doesn't matter, but I didn't get the sense that the people calling weren't infected. Just that nobody had been bitten, nobody had died, walkers couldn't get in, etc. so they felt like they were safe.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> I don't understand all the hate towards the governor. He hasn't done anything that Rick and his group haven't done.


Seriously? Rick has only killed humans when directly threatened. The Governor kills humans indiscriminately to further his own agenda. He killed a helpless soldier. He told that soldier he would help his friends, then the Governor slaughtered them. He send an assassination squad after Michonne even though she left on her own and was going to leave them alone.

He is a bad guy. They are doing a good job trying to make him charming and sympathetic. But he is a bad guy.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> We have already seen guts act as a masking agent. The immunity theory is kind of silly and I don't see how that would have anything to do with the zombies attacking her.


Plus, the reason she has zombie guts on her is because a zombie was attacking her and she sliced him open. If she was immune, that zombie wouldn't have attacked her.

They aren't attacking her because she has the guts on her. They did the same thing in season one to go into Atlanta to get supplies. Seems weird that people would think any different.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It also seems weird that Michonne wouldn't realize, with all she's been through and learned about zombies on her own, that their guts would act as a masking agent. Ostensibly, that's one of the few reasons she had her two slave zombies, to fool other zombies.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> It also seems weird that Michonne wouldn't realize, with all she's been through and learned about zombies on her own, that their guts would act as a masking agent. Ostensibly, that's one of the few reasons she had her two slave zombies, to fool other zombies.


Although having the slave zombies, she never really needed to experiment with personal grooming...


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> I don't understand all the hate towards the governor. He hasn't done anything that Rick and his group haven't done. If anything, the governor has done a much better job because he has created a fairly peaceful society. Rick and the crew don't have anything close to that at this point and they seem to be falling apart more and more everyday.


You mean like murdering a national guard unit?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> I'm thinking the same about immunity. . . that possibly she doesn't even know about. I don't hate the governor but I haven't seen anyone else with a wall of zombie head aquariums, zombie daughters in straight jackets (can't say I wouldn't do the same), or zombie gladiator fights not to mention killing the military guys wasn't very nice.


Herschel kept his family of walkers in the barn. It's not that different then what the governor is doing with his daughter.

I don't really agree with what he did with the military guys but his agenda seems to be to have a peaceful society. He has his army of men and the other men that are in Woodbury seem to be rather weak and timid. He kills anyone who is a threat.....just like Rick's group.

The zombie gladiators and heads in jars was just weird but they live in a weird world.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Zevida said:


> Seriously? Rick has only killed humans when directly threatened.


And what has the gotten Rick? He is going crazy. His best friend and wife are dead. He lives in squalor and is literally in prison. He has a newborn baby that he can't take of. His life is a mess and the same as true for the rest of the group. They are barely surviving. The governor is doing considerably better for himself and the people he is taking care of.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

aadam101 said:


> He (The Governor) kills anyone who is a threat.....just like Rick's group.





aadam101 said:


> The governor is doing considerably better for himself and the people he is taking care of.


I got the impression that The Governor's camp kills, then steal supplies from other groups. All the nice things they have came with the price of a human life. Yes their community is living better, and I'm sure if the citizens knew, they are probably so complacent by now they wouldn't care. After watching Rick struggle with Herschel for permission to stay on the farm last season shows the disparity between how the two group functions.

The discussion between The Gov and Merl, Merl mentioned that Maggie and Glenn looked to be well fed, and I'm sure the Governor will want their resources for himself. The prison not only keeps people in, but also keeps people out.


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## NetJunkie (Feb 19, 2003)

The Governor likes being The Governor. He'll take in people that need help...but not those that can really take care of themselves or would threaten his control. Like the Guard unit. If they came in to town people would expect them to play a big part in leading everyone..he didn't want that.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

When Michonne was standing at the fence across from Rick was she trying to make him think she was a Zombie? All she needed to do was talk and he would realize she wasn't. Unless she thought if she spoke the zombies would know she wasn't one of them. Doubt if they could deduce that. I assumed that she went there to tell them what happened to Glenn and Maggie.


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## SocratesJohnson (Sep 14, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> When Michonne was standing at the fence across from Rick was she trying to make him think she was a Zombie? All she needed to do was talk and he would realize she wasn't. Unless she thought if she spoke the zombies would know she wasn't one of them. Doubt if they could deduce that. I assumed that she went there to tell them what happened to Glenn and Maggie.


I haven't seen too many zombies carrying a shopping basket full of baby formula.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> When Michonne was standing at the fence across from Rick was she trying to make him think she was a Zombie? All she needed to do was talk and he would realize she wasn't. Unless she thought if she spoke the zombies would know she wasn't one of them. Doubt if they could deduce that. I assumed that she went there to tell them what happened to Glenn and Maggie.


Zombies react to sound. If she yelled loud enough for Rick to hear, the zombies would hear.

Zombie 1: "Errr."*

Zombie 2: "Err! ERR!"**

Zombie 1: "ERR! Err err."***

Zombie 2: "Errr."****

Zombie 3: "Err er errr." [bites her] "ERR! ERRRR!!!"*****
______________

*"Hey, that's odd...that chick doesn't sound anything like us!"

**"You're right! Maybe she's...FOOD!!"

***"Doesn't SMELL like food...YOU bite her."

****"No, YOU bite her!"

*****"Jebus, you two are wimps." [bites her] "Yep. Food! Dig in, guys!!"


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Was Carol a walker in the end? or had she just been trapped in there, without any ammo or weapons and waiting for rescue. How long had it been?


When Darryl found Carol's knife in that walker he assumed that she had turned and that it was her trapped in the cell. He was working himself up to be able to go in and kill walker Carol.


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## sptnut (Sep 1, 2003)

I thought the whole reason Michonne had "pets" was the mask the scent. If thats true, she should know that zombie guts would mask her scent too. Am I missing something?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

tiams said:


> When Darryl found Carol's knife in that walker he assumed that she had turned and that it was her trapped in the cell. He was working himself up to be able to go in and kill walker Carol.


You know....I totally missed that but I see it now. I thought he was just upset about her being dead.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

betts4 said:


> Daryl's sharing a story about his Mom was touching. And interesting.


Agreed. He is my new Hillbilly crush.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

sptnut said:


> I thought the whole reason Michonne had "pets" was the mask the scent. If thats true, she should know that zombie guts would mask her scent too. Am I missing something?


Nope, that's my take on it as well.

I'm trying not to think too much watching TWD.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

sptnut said:


> I thought the whole reason Michonne had "pets" was the mask the scent. If thats true, she should know that zombie guts would mask her scent too. Am I missing something?


Well we really don't know....it could be she just had them because they could "scence" other walkers. I think we made the leap that she used them to mask the smell.

That being said, I too was a little surprised at Michone's reaction but I shrugged it off to her being in "battle mode" and expecting a fight and not thinking about being covered in zombie guts.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

pmyers said:


> Well we really don't know....it could be she just had them because they could "scence" other walkers. I think we made the leap that she used them to mask the smell.
> 
> That being said, I too was a little surprised at Michone's reaction but I shrugged it off to her being in "battle mode" and expecting a fight and not thinking about being covered in zombie guts.


That was how I took it. Battle mode and being shot in the leg. She wasn't thinking about the guts -- except at the moment they spilled out on her.

The governor is a total psycho and the reason he and Meryl get along. Actually, the Governor makes Meryl appear normal.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

sptnut said:


> I thought the whole reason Michonne had "pets" was the mask the scent. If thats true, she should know that zombie guts would mask her scent too. Am I missing something?


Why nitpick over this? She was injured and fighting to stay conscious. She could have forgotten or not been thinking about that she had zombie guts all over her at that moment, and was therefore surprised that the walkers didn't immediately sniff her out.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And again, with her pet zombies she never needed to experiment with smearing herself in zombie intestines. Maybe she just never had reason to find out that zombies didn't have to be "live" to mask living human scent from other zombies.

She was clearly surprised, so for whatever reason, she didn't know.


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## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

Spoiler



I was pretty sure she has had a walker with her since everything started until she killed the two before they were picked up at the helicopter crash site.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Why would they waste time letting the audience know about the blood "scent" again? We already know this so I don't see the benefit of having Michonne find out this way. What is the big deal about her learning this? I think she is immune.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> Why would they waste time letting the audience know about the blood "scent" again? We already know this so I don't see the benefit of having Michonne find out this way. What is the big deal about her learning this? I think she is immune.


If she is immune, why was the zombie whose guts she spilled trying to attack her?


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

aadam101 said:


> Why would they waste time letting the audience know about the blood "scent" again? We already know this so I don't see the benefit of having Michonne find out this way. What is the big deal about her learning this? I think she is immune.


What way was she supposed to find out? From the zombie survival guide at the local library?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Hoffer said:


> What way was she supposed to find out? From the zombie survival guide at the local library?


Wikipedia.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> Why would they waste time letting the audience know about the blood "scent" again? We already know this so I don't see the benefit of having Michonne find out this way. What is the big deal about her learning this? I think she is immune.


After the group of walkers passed by her, she clearly looked down at her clothes and all of the blood & guts on them. It was obviously an "ah huh!" moment for her. Her learning this allows her to travel freely again just like she could when she had the two walkers on the chains.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> After the group of walkers passed by her, she clearly looked down at her clothes and all of the blood & guts on them. It was obviously an "ah huh!" moment for her. Her learning this allows her to travel freely again just like she could when she had the two walkers on the chains.


So now she'll be the chick with zombie guts on her all the time instead of pet walkers.

I am still on team governor. Sure he runs a tight ship but in a Zombie Apocalypse it's the survival of the fittest. Ayn Rand would be proud. The governor is sipping wine and making sweet love while the bleeding heart Rick is talking to dead people on a dead phone.

At this point the governor's system is working best.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

aadam101 said:


> Why would they waste time letting the audience know about the blood "scent" again? We already know this so I don't see the benefit of having Michonne find out this way. What is the big deal about her learning this? I think she is immune.


LOL - "waste time"? The whole scene was like twenty seconds long. It's not like the spent an entire episode on it... Such a crazy thing to nitpick about, but we all have our things I guess.



Johnny Dancing said:


> I am still on team governor. Sure he runs a tight ship but in a Zombie Apocalypse it's the survival of the fittest. Ayn Rand would be proud. The governor is sipping wine and making sweet love while the bleeding heart Rick is talking to dead people on a dead phone.


That's true, but now that Team Governor kidnapped Glen and Maggie, I'm guessing they're about to crossover into "villain" territory any minute now. I've been wondering how the groups would connect and I have to say, I love the way it happened. Michonne escaping Merl and stumbling upon Glen and Maggie, then Merl stumbling on them and taking them hostage while Michonne makes her way to the prison. I alsmot don't even want to watch the next few episodes out of fear of what's gonna happen once these groups go head to head. I think it's cool the way they used Glen and Maggie as the starting off point instead of something overly obvious, like Merl tracking Michonne to the prison and seeing Daryl or something.

I think it was weird that he brought them back to Woodbury instead of just making them take him to Daryl, though... but this way's a lot more dramatic so I'll take it.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> Herschel kept his family of walkers in the barn. It's not that different then what the governor is doing with his daughter.
> 
> I don't really agree with what he did with the military guys but his agenda seems to be to have a peaceful society. He has his army of men and the other men that are in Woodbury seem to be rather weak and timid. He kills anyone who is a threat.....just like Rick's group.
> 
> The zombie gladiators and heads in jars was just weird but they live in a weird world.


I was agreeing with you.  In either Herschel or the governor's situation I might try to keep my zombie family around as long as possible. I don't think the daughter in a straight jacket is a bad thing. It shows me he has hope someone he loves can someday be back to normal again.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I weep for humanity.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I am still on team governor. Sure he runs a tight ship but in a Zombie Apocalypse it's the survival of the fittest. Ayn Rand would be proud. The governor is sipping wine and making sweet love while the bleeding heart Rick is talking to dead people on a dead phone.


And quality family time.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

My biggest question from this episode was why Merle stabbed the decapitated head in the eye. Even if it comes back, how much damage can a disembodied head do?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mrdazzo7 said:


> That's true, but now that Team Governor kidnapped Glen and Maggie, I'm guessing they're about to crossover into "villain" territory any minute now.


Right, because murdering National Guard units in cold blood is so heroic.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> My biggest question from this episode was why Merle stabbed the decapitated head in the eye. Even if it comes back, how much damage can a disembodied head do?


Zombie headbutts are the worst!


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> My biggest question from this episode was why Merle stabbed the decapitated head in the eye. Even if it comes back, how much damage can a disembodied head do?





markz said:


> Zombie headbutts are the worst!


That, and you just don't want to leave an animate zombie head lying around in the weeds. Ankle bites.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I think it was weird that he brought them back to Woodbury instead of just making them take him to Daryl, though... but this way's a lot more dramatic so I'll take it.


Maggie and Glen refused to take him to Darryl and they would have laid down their lives before sacrificing the safety and resources of their group by allowing Merle to know where they were located. So Merle's only choices were kill them and have nothing to take to the Gov. or keep them alive as a present for the Gov. and torture them for info.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And again, with her pet zombies she never needed to experiment with smearing herself in zombie intestines. Maybe she just never had reason to find out that zombies didn't have to be "live" to mask living human scent from other zombies.
> 
> She was clearly surprised, so for whatever reason, she didn't know.


The live Walkers she was using as pack animals never did keep mask her human scent and keep other Walkers away. It is only the guts of _dead_ Walkers that is now disguising her.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Don't agree at all. Walkers are already dead. And the slaves did help her move about walkers without being detected, so it did work.

Sorry, was that a spoiler?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> Zombie headbutts are the worst!


There's a Marvel comic called Deadpool, about a government-trained assassin who...well, it's a long story, but suffice it to say that he A) has a highly-active healing factor; and B) is hopelessly insane. There is also an alternate universe that has been taken over by superhero zombies (the Marvel Zombie universe), in which Deadpool has become a zombie. And at the height of Deadpool's popularity a few years ago, in addition to Deadpool and Deadpool Team-Up, they launched Deadpool: Merc With A Mouth, which was about the adventures of Deadpool and the decapitated head of Marvel Zombie Deadpool.

It ran 13 issues, and was actually pretty amusing.

The moral of the story is, to be safe, always kill the decapitated zombie head. Because you just never know.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> My biggest question from this episode was why Merle stabbed the decapitated head in the eye. Even if it comes back, how much damage can a disembodied head do?


I thought it was policy: Merle said they don't let their own turn.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kaszeta said:


> I thought it was policy: Merle said they don't let their own turn.


Then again, I'm pretty sure "lying to the Governor" is against policy.

Policy probably only applies to Merle when it suits him. Or when he thinks he can't get away with violating it. Or when it's fun.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

tiams said:


> The live Walkers she was using as pack animals never did keep mask her human scent and keep other Walkers away. It is only the guts of _dead_ Walkers that is now disguising her.





Hank said:


> Don't agree at all. Walkers are already dead. And the slaves did help her move about walkers without being detected, so it did work.
> 
> Sorry, was that a spoiler?


It is not logical that being in the vicinity of a Walker would mask the scent of a human. If that were the case, as soon as a Walker got close to a human, it and any other Walkers would no longer be able to detect that human. We have seen numerous examples of Walkers being in close proximity to humans and other Walkers still being attracted to that human.

As for Walkers already being dead, there is a distinction between Walkers who are "alive" meaning able to walk and bite and Walkers that have been "killed" meaning they are no longer animate.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It seems logical that her two zombie slaves helped her move about other zombies without detection. She cut off their arms and jaws so they could not attack her.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Hank said:


> It seems logical that her two zombie slaves helped her move about other zombies without detection. She cut off their arms and jaws so they could not attack her.


No that is not logical. If the "slave" Zombies disguised her scent, then each one would prevent the other from detecting her and there would be no need to cut off their arms.

I don't remember a single scene where she moved among Walkers without being detected because she had Walkers on a leash. Nor do I recall her commenting that she and Andrea had been unmolested for the several months they were wandering around in the company of Walkers on a leash. The first time she became undetectable was when she had guts from a "dead" Walker smeared on her. Hence her surprise.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I thought the scientist at the Governor's place said to the Gov that Michonne's pets 

a) had their mandibles removed as to not bite her and
b) allowed her to not be detected

Am I misremembering?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tiams said:


> I don't remember a single scene where she moved among Walkers without being detected because she had Walkers on a leash. Nor do I recall her commenting that she and Andrea had been unmolested for the several months they were wandering around in the company of Walkers on a leash. The first time she became undetectable was when she had guts from a "dead" Walker smeared on her. Hence her surprise.


You have a bad memory. The very first scene where we see Michonne, Andrea is being overrun by a zombie pack, and out of nowhere, Michonne shows up, cloaked, with slaves, undetected and unbothered by the other zombies.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

fmowry said:


> I thought the scientist at the Governor's place said to the Gov that Michonne's pets
> 
> a) had their mandibles removed as to not bite her and
> b) allowed her to not be detected
> ...


Don't you think if they had allowed her to not be detected that she would have gotten herself another couple of them as soon as she left Woodbury? And again, why would their jaws and arms need to be removed if each one made her undetectable to the other?

I don't remember b. at all. The scientist said that when their jaws were removed they no longer had the desire to bite and that they didn't need to eat; they just liked to.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Hank said:


> You have a bad memory. The very first scene where we see Michonne, Andrea is being overrun by a zombie pack, and out of nowhere, Michonne shows up, cloaked, with slaves, undetected and unbothered by the other zombies.


And, basically every other scene where she has them and zombies are near.

They work because she is quiet and stealthy. If she had two slaves and were constantly shooting a loud gun I doubt it would work. The combination of stealth + slaves seems reasonable to me.


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Hank said:


> Wikipedia.


Now that's just silly. There wouldn't be enough people to respond to the appeal at the top of the page and it would go broke!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The other thing that bugged me about this episode: Rick cleaned up awfully good and fast. One minute he's crazy and covered in zombie goo and the next minute he's clean as a whistle.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> The other thing that bugged me about this episode: Rick cleaned up awfully good and fast. One minute he's crazy and covered in zombie goo and the next minute he's clean as a whistle.


They haven't showed us the shower and laundry facilities that must be operational. They've all cleaned up nicely and Hershel has kept his beard nicely trimmed.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I agree that Michones pet's did not offer her immunity or the ability to not be detected by walkers. That doesn't even make sense. It was the combination of her being able to know where they are and her stealth that kept her away from them. 

They were more like warning dogs and pack mules.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

mrdazzo7 said:


> ...I think it was weird that he brought them back to Woodbury instead of just making them take him to Daryl, though... but this way's a lot more dramatic so I'll take it.


I assumed it was because he needed backup. He saw how well armed Maggie and Glen were.


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

Is talking about event explanations given in the comic a spolier if it doesn't spoil future events?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Barmat said:


> Is talking about event explanations given in the comic a spolier if it doesn't spoil future events?


I'd say some people may consider them spoilers so just to be safe I'd put them in spoiler tags.

I'd say that a pretty safe rule for anything comic related.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Barmat said:


> Is talking about event explanations given in the comic a spolier if it doesn't spoil future events?


Believe me, somebody will complain. Put it in spoiler tags.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> The zombie gladiators


I prefer the term Zombie Fight Club


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

The word "camouflage" was definitely used in the conversation between the governor and the scientist about the slaves.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

MacThor said:


> The word "camouflage" was definitely used in the conversation between the governor and the scientist about the slaves.


Yeah, I vaguely remember some comment by the governor (or maybe Meryl) about her "being all clever with using her pet zombies for camouflage" (paraphrasing).


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Beryl said:


> The governor is a total psycho and the reason he and *Meryl* get along. Actually, the Governor makes *Meryl* appear normal.





Jeeters said:


> Yeah, I vaguely remember some comment by the governor (or maybe *Meryl*) about her "being all clever with using her pet zombies for camouflage" (paraphrasing).


_[vent]_Okay, gang, let's get real. There is no character on the show named "Meryl", which is a ladie's name rhyming with "Carol" or "barrel" (and "Daryl").

Daryl's brother is "*MERLE*", which rhymes with "Earl".

I know that I am not the only one who cringes every time a couple of you consistently get it wrong. And I can also predict that the first response some people will want to do is to go out of their way to get it wrong from now on, so I will ignore it from now on in this thread, now that I've vented.

My education throughout my life has taught me to respect spelling and grammar, and it frustrates me that this quality is ridiculed as being condescending or snobby in the current times -- especially on the internet._ [/vent]_

To the vast majority of the rest of you who understand what I am saying, you're welcome!


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I definitely agree about grammar and spelling and try to get it right, however, names are something else again. I don't blame anyone for not taking valuable time to look up how someone spells his name, or even to try to remember exactly what the name is. Some of us have poor memories.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I definitely agree about grammar and spelling and try to get it right, however, names are something else again. I don't blame anyone for not taking valuable time to look up how someone spells his name, or even to try to remember exactly what the name is. Some of us have poor memories.


Agreed. It could be spelled numerous ways, none of which I would take the time to go look up to see which is correct.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Beryl said:


> They haven't showed us the shower and laundry facilities that must be operational. They've all cleaned up nicely and Hershel has kept his beard nicely trimmed.


I thought one of the prisoners mentioned showers. I could be remembering wrong.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> I thought one of the prisoners mentioned showers. I could be remembering wrong.


One would think that if you are living in a stinking, filthy Zombie Apocalypse World, that you would be washing & showering whenever you possibly could. That new baby won't be having to worry about peanut allergies or asthma, because she is being exposed to every germ imaginable, and her tiny little body should be building up antibodies to everything .... and possibly even to the "infection" which afflicts everyone else.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

aadam101 said:


> I thought one of the prisoners mentioned showers. I could be remembering wrong.


Yeah, but showers need water pressure and water pumps need power.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> Yeah, but showers need water pressure and water pumps need power.


Unless they have a water tower...


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Unless they have a water tower...


Exactly - I would imagine that even sans pumps to feed the water tower, it would last quite a long time with only them using it.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

robojerk said:


> Yeah, the things he said all didn't add up.


I rewound. No, he didn't get caught. He mentioned that Michonne killed one of them, then he got her, then they got interrupted by biters. When pressed for the trophies he said the other two were carrying the katana and head. The story really didn't make sense but I don't think the Governor has much reason to doubt Merle.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> The story really didn't make sense but I don't think the Governor has much reason to doubt Merle.


Oh, I don't think the Governor has much reason to trust a single thing that comes out of Merle's mouth.

What with the Governor not being a complete idiot and all. 

I think the Governor finds Merle useful, but I don't think he has any illusions.


----------



## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

Haven't read the comics. Just my 2 cents but I think the "pets" gave Michonne some camouflage. Not immunity, just made it less likely for the other Zombies to catch her scent. I also agree that they were useful in other ways to her (pack animals, watch dogs, carpool lane, etc.) 

I also think she probably knew them when they were alive.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Oh, I don't think the Governor has much reason to trust a single thing that comes out of Merle's mouth.
> 
> What with the Governor not being a complete idiot and all.
> 
> I think the Governor finds Merle useful, but I don't think he has any illusions.


Agree. "There is no honor among thieves" applies here. They are both psychos are aware of it.


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I have to say, people debating the validity of whether or not zombies mask the scent of humans from other zombies is hysterical to me... how the heck would anyone know one way or another? Unless you've been in a zombie apocalypse, who knows... it's just funny that this particular story point has dominated the discussion for this episode, despite being something that absolutely no one on earth could legitimately prove or disprove. 

The show has already shown that Zombies make humans indetectible. We've seen humans cover themselves in zombie insides, and we've also seen humans bury themselves in a pile of dead zombies as hordes move right past them. How is that any different than Michonne standing between or behind her two 'slaves' as a horde moves past her? The herd will smell the other zombies (which I would imagine smell a LOT stronger than any human standing behind them). The Governor's scientist guy said removing the mandible and something else (can't remember what) took away their desire to eat, which rendered them harmless to Michonne. 

I just don't get the argument... and I definitely don't get how something like that can bother someone so much to the point that they can't seem to get past it, despite the badassery that is everything else on this show.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I just don't get the argument... and I definitely don't get how something like that can bother someone so much to the point that they can't seem to get past it, despite the badassery that is everything else on this show.


Because its fun.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'm not really arguing if zombie guts act as camo one way or the other.. what I'm saying is that I'm surprised that Michonne didn't figure that out for herself with everything else she's figured out before we met her. Clearly from the first moment we saw her, she was a loner with mad zombie apocalypse survival skilz.


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

I'm starting to take a shine to Mirl, I think he's misunderstood.


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Hank said:


> I'm not really arguing if zombie guts act as camo one way or the other.. what I'm saying is that I'm surprised that Michonne didn't figure that out for herself with everything else she's figured out before we met her. Clearly from the first moment we saw her, she was a loner with mad zombie apocalypse survival skilz.


Tru. ***** is cray cray fo' sho'. who knows. I guess she's so badass that she never HAD zombie guts strewn all over her body. She always kills them before they get near her. I think the shot of her walking up the fence with the food store basket like she was walking up the checkout line was one of my favorite shots of the series.



Johnny Dancing said:


> I'm starting to take a shine to Mirl, I think he's misunderstood.


No way is Mearle misunderstood. Dude is pure d-bag.


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> No way is Mearle misunderstood. Dude is pure d-bag.


Are we trying to see how many ways we can spell Murl's name?


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

kaszeta said:


> Are we trying to see how many ways we can spell Murl's name?


GMTA. I was giggling about this too.


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

kaszeta said:


> Are we trying to see how many ways we can spell Murl's name?


There's only one way to spell Myrl's name, and that's "Murrl"... obviously.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Oh, I don't think the Governor has much reason to trust a single thing that comes out of Merle's mouth.
> 
> What with the Governor not being a complete idiot and all.
> 
> I think the Governor finds Merle useful, but I don't think he has any illusions.


I wonder how the Governnor got hooked up with Merle in the first place. Merle is the kind of person that I would think the Governor would want dead. He would be better off with the army guys than Merle.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Johnny Dancing said:


> ...At this point the governor's system is working best.


...said the anarchist...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

aadam101 said:


> I wonder how the Governnor got hooked up with Merle in the first place. Merle is the kind of person that I would think the Governor would want dead. He would be better off with the army guys than Merle.


Maybe he likes having a pet psychopath who's emotionally dependent on him?

And maybe that will end up as a poor decision?

(Not based on comic book knowledge, since Mrrlle is an original character on the show, with no comic book counterpart.)


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

getreal said:


> ...which is a *ladie's* name...





getreal said:


> ...My education throughout my life has taught me to respect *spelling and grammar*....


You mean "lady's" name?.....right?.....right?.....


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> You mean "lady's" name?.....right?.....right?.....


Could have meant "laddie's name"...


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Beryl said:


> Agree. "There is no honor among thieves" applies here. They are both psychos are aware of it.


I thought the phrase was "honor among thieves" which is sort of the opposite.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

zordude said:


> I thought the phrase was "honor among thieves" which is sort of the opposite.


Both phrases are in common usage. "Honor among thieves" refers to a group of dishonest people who deal honestly with each other. But in the real world, thieves often do betray each other, hence "no honor among thieves".


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Unless they have a water tower...


I thought they showed us a water tower and even mentioned it, back when they first saw the prison. Maybe I misremembered.



aadam101 said:


> I wonder how the Governnor got hooked up with Merle in the first place. Merle is the kind of person that I would think the Governor would want dead. He would be better off with the army guys than Merle.


No way! The army guys are a threat to his authority. A junkyard dog who's fairly loyal, not to mention has a knife instead of a hand and clearly zero aptitude for leadership, is exactly the kind of person the Governor would like to line his town's walls with.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> You mean "lady's" name?.....right?.....right?.....


Booyah! Nice catch there. :up: _(There's no smiley to symbolize patting you on the head.) _
But my point was made, and my prediction was promptly proven to be true.

Ewe guise r sew preDICKtable. 

BTW, Mrrl would work as well. At least the versions you have been coming up with are phonetic versions of Merle.

My little vent was very cathartic for me, so it's all good. 

BTW, if spelling "Merle" is so difficult for a couple of you, why no problems with "Michonne"??


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I have to say, people debating the validity of whether or not zombies mask the scent of humans from other zombies is hysterical to me... how the heck would anyone know one way or another? Unless you've been in a zombie apocalypse, who knows... it's just funny that this particular story point has dominated the discussion for this episode, despite being something that absolutely no one on earth could legitimately prove or disprove.
> 
> The show has already shown that Zombies make humans indetectible. We've seen humans cover themselves in zombie insides, and we've also seen humans bury themselves in a pile of dead zombies as hordes move right past them. How is that any different than Michonne standing between or behind her two 'slaves' as a horde moves past her? The herd will smell the other zombies (which I would imagine smell a LOT stronger than any human standing behind them). The Governor's scientist guy said removing the mandible and something else (can't remember what) took away their desire to eat, which rendered them harmless to Michonne.
> 
> I just don't get the argument... and I definitely don't get how something like that can bother someone so much to the point that they can't seem to get past it, despite the badassery that is everything else on this show.


We're on the 3rd page of a TV show discussion. It's either argue some minor point about the show or see how many ways we can spell Merrill.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

fmowry said:


> We're on the 3rd page of a TV show discussion. It's either argue some minor point about the show or see how many ways we can spell Merrill.


Or just stop posting.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Muhrl.

Muehrl

If I could figure out those umlauts I could go all night (that's what she said).


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

kaszeta said:


> Are we trying to see how many ways we can spell Murl's name?





wprager said:


> Muhrl.
> 
> Muehrl
> 
> If I could figure out those umlauts I could go all night (that's what she said).


Mearl (like Pearl)


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I have to say, people debating the validity of whether or not zombies mask the scent of humans from other zombies is hysterical to me... how the heck would anyone know one way or another? Unless you've been in a zombie apocalypse, who knows... it's just funny that this particular story point has dominated the discussion for this episode, despite being something that absolutely no one on earth could legitimately prove or disprove.
> 
> The show has already shown that Zombies make humans indetectible. We've seen humans cover themselves in zombie insides, and we've also seen humans bury themselves in a pile of dead zombies as hordes move right past them. How is that any different than Michonne standing between or behind her two 'slaves' as a horde moves past her? The herd will smell the other zombies (which I would imagine smell a LOT stronger than any human standing behind them). The Governor's scientist guy said removing the mandible and something else (can't remember what) took away their desire to eat, which rendered them harmless to Michonne.
> 
> I just don't get the argument... and I definitely don't get how something like that can bother someone so much to the point that they can't seem to get past it, despite the badassery that is everything else on this show.


If the debate is so hysterical to you, then why join it? You seem to have missed the point anyway. The argument is whether just having two "live" walkers on a leash behind you would camouflage a human. It is not an argument of whether zombie insides camouflage a human because we know that is true. We have never seen a herd of zombies move past Michonne because she was standing between her two zombies on a leash. We have seen them move past her because she was covered in dead zombie insides.

It has been proven that being near "live" Walkers doesn't make a human undetectable because we have been shown many instances of humans being near Walkers and other Walkers still being able to detect them. That's how we know one way or the other. Not because any of us have been in a zombie apocalypse, but because we are going by the rules the show has created. I think it is funny that you think this discussion is about what can be proven true on Earth. We are discussing a show.

Furthermore, if the presence of a Walker made a human undetectable, no Walker would ever be able to detect a human because it's own presence would keep it from detecting the human. If one walker disguised the smell of humans, all you would ever have to do is walk close behind or beside one like Michonne did. If Michonne's zombies had been disguising her, she would get herself some replacements. But they weren't disguising her, she has had to battle zombies this whole time.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

getreal said:


> ...BTW, if spelling "Merle" is so difficult for a couple of you, why no problems with "Michonne"??


If you go back and check...I'd bet to say that as many people spell it Michone (me) as Michonne. I have no idea which is "correct", nor do I really care.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> Muhrl.
> 
> Muehrl
> 
> If I could figure out those umlauts I could go all night (that's what she said).


Mürl.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

tiams said:


> If the debate is so hysterical to you, then why join it? You seem to have missed the point anyway. The argument is whether just having two "live" walkers on a leash behind you would camouflage a human. It is not an argument of whether zombie insides camouflage a human because we know that is true. We have never seen a herd of zombies move past Michonne because she was standing between her two zombies on a leash. We have seen them move past her because she was covered in dead zombie insides.
> 
> It has been proven that being near "live" Walkers doesn't make a human undetectable because we have been shown many instances of humans being near Walkers and other Walkers still being able to detect them. *That's how we know one way or the other. *Not because any of us have been in a zombie apocalypse, but because we are going by the rules the show has created. I think it is funny that you think this discussion is about what can be proven true on Earth. We are discussing a show.
> 
> Furthermore, if the presence of a Walker made a human undetectable, no Walker would ever be able to detect a human because it's own presence would keep it from detecting the human. If one walker disguised the smell of humans, all you would ever have to do is walk close behind or beside one like Michonne did. If Michonne's zombies had been disguising her, she would get herself some replacements. But they weren't disguising her, she has had to battle zombies this whole time.


We know one way or another if someone goes back to the episode where the scientist talks to the governor and quotes exactly what he said. Some believe it was explicitly stated that Michonne's pet walkers camouflaged her.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Beryl said:


> GMTA. I was giggling about this too.


Me too, Berle, me too!


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tiams said:


> *It has been proven that *being near "live" Walkers doesn't make a human undetectable because we have been shown many instances of humans being near Walkers and other Walkers still being able to detect them. That's how we know one way or the other. Not because any of us have been in a zombie apocalypse, but because we are going by the rules the show has created. I think it is funny that you think this discussion is about what can be proven true on Earth. We are discussing a show.
> 
> Furthermore, if the presence of a Walker made a human undetectable, no Walker would ever be able to detect a human because it's own presence would keep it from detecting the human. If one walker disguised the smell of humans, all you would ever have to do is walk close behind or beside one like Michonne did. If Michonne's zombies had been disguising her, she would get herself some replacements. But they weren't disguising her, she has had to battle zombies this whole time.


*OMG, NOTHING HAS BEEN "PROVEN"... this is ALL YOUR OWN OPINION. * I happen to disagree with your assertions, since you can not PROVE this one way or another without talking to the writers of the show. You can present your evidence and make a case, but that does not PROVE anything. As I can't prove it one way or another. The EVIDENCE, in MY OPINION is that her zombie slaves did mask her presence among other zombies. In your examples above, most of the time (if not all) the humans are yelling, shooting, screaming, and flailing around in ways that zombies can't and that's what attracts them to humans (as well as the scent). So if Michonne walked slowly as the walkers do, cloaked herself, didn't shoot a gun or make any noises, and relied on the slave zombies smells to hide her scent, she could easily walk among the zombies without being detected. Does that PROVE anything? Of course not, but it is strong evidence that her slaves did camouflage her human scent to some extent.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Hank said:


> Of course not, but it is strong evidence that her slaves did camouflage her human scent to some extent.


I agree. Plus, it is not like she was using the slave zombies to walk in the middle of a herd, just in a more general sense so that while she was walking through an area there would be some masking of her scent.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Hank said:


> *OMG, NOTHING HAS BEEN "PROVEN"... this is ALL YOUR OWN OPINION. * I happen to disagree with your assertions, since you can not PROVE this one way or another without talking to the writers of the show. You can present your evidence and make a case, but that does not PROVE anything. As I can't prove it one way or another. The EVIDENCE, in MY OPINION is that her zombie slaves did mask her presence among other zombies. In your examples above, most of the time (if not all) the humans are yelling, shooting, screaming, and flailing around in ways that zombies can't and that's what attracts them to humans (as well as the scent). So if Michonne walked slowly as the walkers do, cloaked herself, didn't shoot a gun or make any noises, and relied on the slave zombies smells to hide her scent, she could easily walk among the zombies without being detected. Does that PROVE anything? Of course not, but it is strong evidence that her slaves did camouflage her human scent to some extent.


The proof is that we have seen walkers detect humans even when other walkers are near them. We have never seen Michonne walk among zombies undetected just because she had her slaves with her. Michonne's zombie slaves have never masked her from other zombies. She has had to fight them off for all the months she and Andrea were roaming around alone. Being near one walker has never kept other walkers away. There is no evidence that her slaves camouflaged her.

If you think holding a zombie on a leash will make a person invisible to other zombies, then fine, we don't have to agree. I think it is only covering or smearing yourself in dead zombie insides that masks you. If you are right, they will all soon be tying zombies around their wrists like kids with balloons.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tiams said:


> *If you think holding a zombie on a leash will make a person invisible to other zombies, *then fine, we don't have to agree. I think it is only covering or smearing yourself in dead zombie insides that masks you. If you are right, they will all soon be tying zombies around their wrists like kids with balloons.


God dammit Jim, will you actually read what I'm saying??? It's a combination of factors. It's not just "having a zombie near you".


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

tiams said:


> The proof is that we have seen walkers detect humans even when other walkers are near them. We have never seen Michonne walk among zombies undetected just because she had her slaves with her. Michonne's zombie slaves have never masked her from other zombies. She has had to fight them off for all the months she and Andrea were roaming around alone. Being near one walker has never kept other walkers away. There is no evidence that her slaves camouflaged her.
> 
> If you think holding a zombie on a leash will make a person invisible to other zombies, then fine, we don't have to agree. I think it is only covering or smearing yourself in dead zombie insides that masks you. If you are right, they will all soon be tying zombies around their wrists like kids with balloons.


I feel like you missed some scenes with Michonne. We definitely have seen her walk close to or among zombies.

Also, we have quite compelling evidence that zombies don't detect humans who have zombie guts on them. We also know that zombies would have to smell pretty bad.

It makes a lot more sense that having bleeding zombies nearby and being quiet means you are relatively undetectable than her being "immune" (which isn't even the right word for what is being described) and thus undetectable.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

tiams said:


> The proof is that we have seen walkers detect humans even when other walkers are near them. We have never seen Michonne walk among zombies undetected just because she had her slaves with her. Michonne's zombie slaves have never masked her from other zombies. She has had to fight them off for all the months she and Andrea were roaming around alone. Being near one walker has never kept other walkers away. There is no evidence that her slaves camouflaged her.
> 
> If you think holding a zombie on a leash will make a person invisible to other zombies, then fine, we don't have to agree. I think it is only covering or smearing yourself in dead zombie insides that masks you. If you are right, they will all soon be tying zombies around their wrists like kids with balloons.


I totally agree with this. We have NEVER (I urge somebody to point to a scene that proves otherwise) seen her walk undetected among zombies with immuity or any indication to that.

What we HAVE seen is that being among zombies does NOT mask you from other zombies. Therefore...I conclude that the simple act of having 2 zombies changed to you would NOT allow you to be undetected.

Perhaps there might be a certain element of camaflauge where their scent would slighty mask you from a single walker, but we don't have any proof of that.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Spoilerized for the spoiler nazis.

One page from Michonne's backstory in the comics, but not really a spoiler. The answer to the masking debate is right here:



Spoiler













This is also really good:




[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luh03RQs8u8[/media]


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> I feel like you missed some scenes with Michonne. We definitely have seen her walk close to or among zombies...


I must have missed them too.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm pretty sure the scene when Michonne was introduced in the S2 finale showed other zombies around her and her slaves but not pursuing her. 

I don't think the slaves mask her smell. If that were the case, then she wouldn't have been surprised by the guts providing camouflage. I think the slaves basically made her "invisible" to other zombies because they'd see her plus zombies (her slaves) and see that the other zombies aren't chasing her, so there's no reason for them to chase either. As depicted in this show, zombies are largely motivated by herd mentality, so if the slaves aren't pursuing Michonne, there's no reason for the rest to pursue.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think the slaves mask her smell. If that were the case, then she wouldn't have been surprised by the guts providing camouflage.


Huh? Michonne doesn't know everything about zombies. It could very well be masking her smell and she just didn't know that's why it was working when she had slaves.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm pretty sure the scene when Michonne was introduced in the S2 finale showed other zombies around her and her slaves but not pursuing her.
> 
> I don't think the slaves mask her smell. If that were the case, then she wouldn't have been surprised by the guts providing camouflage. I think the slaves basically made her "invisible" to other zombies because they'd see her plus zombies (her slaves) and see that the other zombies aren't chasing her, so there's no reason for them to chase either. As depicted in this show, zombies are largely motivated by herd mentality, so if the slaves aren't pursuing Michonne, there's no reason for the rest to pursue.


But don't you think that answer is too simple...Just string along 2 zombies and everything is great? If she figured that out, she is an absolute genius and I hope we see our heros with pet zombies in the future.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Hank said:


> It also seems weird that Michonne wouldn't realize, with all she's been through and learned about zombies on her own, that their guts would act as a masking agent. Ostensibly, that's one of the few reasons she had her two slave zombies, to fool other zombies.


Guts mask her her scent, not live slave zombies



sptnut said:


> I thought the whole reason Michonne had "pets" was the mask the scent. If thats true, she should know that zombie guts would mask her scent too. Am I missing something?


You are right about one thing: if live zombies masked her scent she would have already known that their guts would to. But live zombies on a chain does Not keep one safe from other zombies, only dead zombie guts.



Hank said:


> Nope, that's my take on it as well.


Then explain how any zombie can detect a human that is camouflaged by another zombie.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> And again, with her pet zombies she never needed to experiment with smearing herself in zombie intestines. Maybe she just never had reason to find out that zombies didn't have to be "live" to mask living human scent from other zombies.
> 
> She was clearly surprised, so for whatever reason, she didn't know.


"live" zombies don't mask human scent. If they did, no zombies would be attracted to a human who was already near a zombie.



Hank said:


> God dammit Jim, will you actually read what I'm saying??? It's a combination of factors. It's not just "having a zombie near you".


You said Michonne dragging live zombies made her undetectable.



TAsunder said:


> I feel like you missed some scenes with Michonne. We definitely have seen her walk close to or among zombies.
> 
> Also, we have quite compelling evidence that zombies don't detect humans who have zombie guts on them. We also know that zombies would have to smell pretty bad.
> 
> It makes a lot more sense that having bleeding zombies nearby and being quiet means you are relatively undetectable than her being "immune" (which isn't even the right word for what is being described) and thus undetectable.


I have not seen any scene where Michonne walked among zombies. That is until this episode when she had guts on her. I agree zombies don't detect humans who have guts on them.



pmyers said:


> I totally agree with this. We have NEVER (I urge somebody to point to a scene that proves otherwise) seen her walk undetected among zombies with immuity or any indication to that.
> 
> What we HAVE seen is that being among zombies does NOT mask you from other zombies. Therefore...I conclude that the simple act of having 2 zombies changed to you would NOT allow you to be undetected.
> 
> Perhaps there might be a certain element of camaflauge where their scent would slighty mask you from a single walker, but we don't have any proof of that.


Thank You!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tiams said:


> You said Michonne dragging live zombies made her undetectable.


You're still not listening! I said it was a combination of factors, not just having zombies near you.

I also said that I'm surprised it took Michonne this long to figure out the guts part, since she already knew the masking part.

Ugh, I'm out.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

tiams said:


> I have not seen any scene where Michonne walked among zombies. That is until this episode when she had guts on her. I agree zombies don't detect humans who have guts on them.


Ah, sorry, I thought you were arguing that she was "immune" as others did in this thread. You are just suggesting that we don't know that she was undetectable (or harder to detect) at all, correct? I could swear we saw some scenes in the opening episode to indicate otherwise but I could be mistaken.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> ...Ugh, I'm out.


C'mon now...we all know better than that


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Did I make a wrong turn and land in the Shark Tank thread?


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Ah, sorry, I thought you were arguing that she was "immune" as others did in this thread. You are just suggesting that we don't know that she was undetectable (or harder to detect) at all, correct? I could swear we saw some scenes in the opening episode to indicate otherwise but I could be mistaken.


No, I wasn't addressing the notion that she is immune. I was arguing that simply dragging live zombies with you does not mask human scent, only being covered in dead zombies and guts masks scent.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Hank said:


> Ugh, I'm out.


Promise?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tiams said:


> No, I wasn't addressing the notion that she is immune. I was arguing that simply dragging live zombies with you does not mask human scent, only being covered in dead zombies and guts masks scent.


As I said above, I don't think the slaves mask scent. I think they mask her presence because other zombies don't see her slaves chasing her so they have no reason to chase either. This, they never get close enough to worry about scent.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> As I said above, I don't think the slaves mask scent. I think they mask her presence because other zombies don't see her slaves chasing her so they have no reason to chase either. This, they never get close enough to worry about scent.


I could see some merit to that. You're assumption is that walkers "alert" other walkers and the slaves prevent that alert from happening..it isn't about scent.

Would you assume that if a zombie did get close enough to smell Michonne, that the walker would still attack her even if her slaves were present?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> As I said above, I don't think the slaves mask scent. I think they mask her presence because other zombies don't see her slaves chasing her so they have no reason to chase either. This, they never get close enough to worry about scent.





pmyers said:


> I could see some merit to that. You're assumption is that walkers "alert" other walkers and the slaves prevent that alert from happening..it isn't about scent.
> 
> Would you assume that if a zombie did get close enough to smell Michonne, that the walker would still attack her even if her slaves were present?


I was just popping in to suggest that it was never about scent.

That was an early assumption that people here just started accepting with nothing revealed on the show to confirm it. If scent were the zombies' tracking method, one would expect that there would be a close-up of a zombie suddenly sniffing the air to locate their prey. But they are in various stages of decomposition, and some don't even have noses. Scent is transmitted from nostril hairs to the brain. A rotten face without a nose does not have nostril hairs. And a nose clogged with dirt and blood clots would not transmit scent, and (thankfully) we have not seen walkers constantly picking their noses to keep them maintained and in proper working order.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

getreal said:


> I was just popping in to suggest that it was never about scent.
> 
> That was an early assumption that people here just started accepting with nothing revealed on the show to confirm it. If scent were the zombies' tracking method, one would expect that there would be a close-up of a zombie suddenly sniffing the air to locate their prey. But they are in various stages of decomposition, and some don't even have noses. Scent is transmitted from nostril hairs to the brain. A rotten face without a nose does not have nostril hairs. And a nose clogged with dirt and blood clots would not transmit scent, and (thankfully) we have not seen walkers constantly picking their noses to keep them maintained and in proper working order.


So what makes the guts a good masking agent if not scent?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> So what makes the guts a good masking agent if not scent?


Would you want to eat something all covered with guts and viscera? I think it's all about presentation and plating: messy humans simply don't look good enough to eat.

And a woman towing around zombies in chains? That's a Crazy Woman, and zombies know You Don't Eat Crazy.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> As I said above, I don't think the slaves mask scent. I think they mask her presence because other zombies don't see her slaves chasing her so they have no reason to chase either. This, they never get close enough to worry about scent.


If only there was a word in the English language that was used to describe what you are saying above.

This was in the TV.com review under the notes:

" So there was the explanation of her pets, given out by The Governor's resident science nerd. Without arms and jaws, zombies become docile and lose the urge to try to snack on people. And they also "camouflage" their owners from other walkers. "

http://www.tv.com/news/the-walking-dead-walk-with-me-review-the-happiest-place-on-earth-29946/

The following link has more info on the scientist-governor scene:

"Milton also tells The Governor the arms were most likely removed so they cant grab anyone, in turn, making them more docile. Milton states they are:

no longer in attack mode.

Essentially, Milton feels they lose interest in feeding, thereby wasting away bit by bit. The Governor describes them as lurkers and dubs them valuable camouflage. He makes one of the most memorable lines in the Walk With Me episode:

Walk with a biter, they think you are a biter.

Essentially, he and Milton feel Michonne had the walkers with them to ward off other walkers. For some reason, they seem to think the walkers dont like the smell of other walkers. "

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-walking-dead-walk-with-me-theories-on-michonne-s-pet-zombies


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Hank said:


> Spoilerized for the spoiler nazis.
> 
> One page from Michonne's backstory in the comics, but not really a spoiler. The answer to the masking debate is right here:
> 
> * SPOILER *


Very cool, Hank. I now understand her perpetual 'scowl'. This chick is intense.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Where did the baby get her cute outfit?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jradosh said:


> Where did the baby get her cute outfit?


From a zombie baby that now had a knife in its head?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

fmowry said:


> If only there was a word in the English language that was used to describe what you are saying above.
> 
> This was in the TV.com review under the notes:
> 
> ...


I used the word "camouflage" in the earlier post I made about this, but nobody seemed to see it, so I reiterated.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I thought they showed us a water tower and even mentioned it, back when they first saw the prison. Maybe I misremembered.


I definitely remember seeing a water tower in the background of at least one scene.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Sorry to activate an old thread but I just watched the series this weekend. Did a zombie eat Rick's dead wife's body?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

presumably.

when Rick went down to where she had been, there was the fat walker that couldn't move because it had gorged itself on 'something'


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