# HD Solution - Dump TiVo or Dump DirecTV?



## Fleemo17 (Feb 9, 2006)

So if a HD DirecTiVo unit probably won't hit the shelves until 2010, what advice do folks have for going HD? Dump DirecTV or dump TiVo? I've heard that DirecTV's DVRs don't hold a candle to TiVo, but I have been very satisfied with their service. What to do, what to do?


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Do some more research. Many of us have both Tivo-based DirecTV DVRs and the newer non-Tivo HD DVRs. The HD DVRs are really quite stable now and provide many features you won't find on the Tivo-based DVRs.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

And some of us are very happy with our TiVo HDs with cable, over the air atenna, and all the features that TiVo provides.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

If you are considering other vendors, you have leverage with DTV to get upgraded for free. If you base your decision on whether you can get the DVR for free (which will imply a new dish install as well, and is what you should not settle for less than), you still have to make a leap of faith either way. You will need to commit to 2 years with DTV (they need to pay for that free install somehow) or you will have to run the gauntlet of the comparitively costly Tivo HD and another vendor, which can be also a difficult task. Personally, I chose the DTV upgrade path and have no regrets whatsoever

If the decision is content based, see if your favorite shows and channels are in HD on the other vendors. DTV has a distinct advantage in sheer HD and HD channels, but only _*for you *_if they have content in HD that you want that is not available elsewhere. Odds are they do, but odds can be beaten.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I have both kinds of DVR. I find the HR2x just as good as TiVo in most areas, better in some, not as good in some. Neither is perfect. If you approach it with an open mind you'll do better.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Again, by posting this in the DirectTivo area, you are getting responses from people who have the DirectTivo and the DirectTV DVR, but don't have cable or the Tivo HD. You are going to get a biased response here.

I say dump DirectTV and get cable with a Tivo HD and cablecards. It works very well, and you get all of the extra features, like next month streaming Netflix.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

It all depends on what you want. If you're happy with DirecTV then the HRXX HD-DVRs are reported to work pretty good. If having a Tivo is a dealbreaker then see what your local cablecos offer. I'm no big fan of cable and I wouldn't switch unless it was a last resort. If you have FIOS in your area then I'd definitely consider switching and getting the Tivo HD. Compare prices for the services you want and see if it's worth it to you. Remember that you will have to buy the Tivo outright but you are also not necessarily locked into any commitment. OTOH, you will get lower rates on the Tivo service with a multiyear signup. Weigh all of your options and see what works best for you.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

First off do a true feature compare. I could care less what the UI is and I don't need a Tivo guy bouncing around in the menu's.  BUT, compare a Tivo HD with an HR2x from DirecTV. They both record, they both play back your shows, they both have season passes and so on and so on. So get down to the features that are different (like the HR2x doesn't have DLB, Tivo does) and see if there is a "killer" feature missing for you on one or the other.

Frankly for me even after that it all comes down to programming between the providers you are looking at. And then weigh that against your DVR compare. Does DirecTV have a channel that is a must have that cable doesn't have? So is giving up DLB worth that? Things like that.

And when looking at cable, is some or most of their HD accessed only via SDV? If so I don't think Tivo has the SDV dongle yet (thus can't get those HD channels) so factor that in. You'll need to do your research in the stand alone Tivo HD forums for answers there.

Plus as many have posted here, why not do both if you want to stay with DirecTV? Get your HR2x and keep the DirecTivo. Then if for some reason you hate the HR2x you can use it for HD only and keep on using your DirecTivo for SD channels. Then wait and see what the new HD DirecTivo will bring in a year or two.

At the end of the day you can get dozens and dozens of posts of advice but only you can make this decision.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

shibby191 said:


> And when looking at cable, is some or most of their HD accessed only via SDV? If so I don't think Tivo has the SDV dongle yet (thus can't get those HD channels) so factor that in. You'll need to do your research in the stand alone Tivo HD forums for answers there.


Tuning resolvers for accessing Switched Digital Video are available from some carriers. It's up to the cable company to provide them.

Whether TiVo HD is a viable option depends on whether your cable company is a viable option. Are their rates competitive? You may find that you can save money over DTV if you bundle your cable and internet (I am). Some cable companies also offer incentives for satellite subscribers to switch. Do they have the SD and/or HD channels that you care about? Do they provide decent support for cable card or is every install a nightmare? A search on the TiVo HD forum may help you answer some of those questions.

I'm very pleased to have switched from DirecTV to WOW cable with a TiVo S3 over a year ago. I'm saving money and really enjoying all of the features and content options that DirecTV never saw fit to offer.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> And some of us are very happy with our TiVo HDs with cable, over the air atenna, and all the features that TiVo provides.[/QUOTE
> 
> NFLST ?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You should also compare channel offerings and price for your local cable system. I know that in my area, it's not even close - DirecTV is far superior in the offerings and price.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

reh523 said:


> NFLST ?


There are a lot of people (most) that don't care for Sunday Ticket thus it never enters the discussion. WOW cable that nrc has is a much smaller company and widely regarded as one of the best unlike many of the "mega" cable companies.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

stevel said:


> You should also compare channel offerings and price for your local cable system. I know that in my area, it's not even close - DirecTV is far superior in the offerings and price.


Same here. I have Charter and while they are OK, they charge more for HD and have about a quarter of the HD channels then DirecTV has. Basically not even in the same conversation. AT&T Uverse has been rolling out here and their HD lineup is pretty competitive actually, but they don't have our RSN in HD, thus I won't even look at it until they do.

The OP seemed to be more worried about Tivo vs. DirecTV DVR then channels and packages but like you, I value the channels and price much higher then the DVR, but it all goes together in one big soup and for the options I have DirecTV tastes better...for now.

But if someone just can't live without Tivo or they're going to die then the only choice is to wait it out another year or two with DirecTV and hope the new box actually gets out and doesn't stay vaporware (you never know what will happen between now and then) or go to cable/telco where you can have Tivo now. Pretty much that simple and comes down to that.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Unfortunately, my market (southern New Hampshire) has been abandoned by Verizon (they got as far as rolling out FiOS broadband in some areas but then sold the whole operation to Fairpoint which is uninterested in developing TV services.) AT&T isn't here at all. What we have is Comcast, and a poor version of that.

I like TiVo - have been a TiVo user for 8 years now. My wife prefers the TiVo interface, but that doesn't stop her from using the HR21 to watch shows in HD that the HR10 can't see. It seems likely we'll go for the new TiVo box when it arrives a year or so from now, but if I were deciding now, I'd stick with DirecTV.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> ...I say dump DirectTV and get cable with a Tivo HD and cablecards. It works very well, and you get all of the extra features, like next month streaming Netflix.


Mega-ditto. DirecTV is the eeeval.

You have to be careful that when you call to cancel you don't get signed up for a two year commitment of canceled service. Actually, you can't be careful because they enter the commit on your account without telling you. Actually they enter the commit while telling you you don't have a commitment.

Dump DirecTV. Dump DirecTV often and repeatedly.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

Fleemo17 said:


> So if a HD DirecTiVo unit probably won't hit the shelves until 2010, what advice do folks have for going HD? Dump DirecTV or dump TiVo? I've heard that DirecTV's DVRs don't hold a candle to TiVo, but I have been very satisfied with their service. What to do, what to do?


If you can't decide then flip a coin and if you don't like the result try 2 out of 3. Really you should just follow your gut feeling and don't look back. All you will get by asking is flame wars between the two sides. I am neutral and think you will probably be happy whichever way you decide to go. Good luck.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stevel said:


> I have both kinds of DVR. I find the HR2x just as good as TiVo in most areas, better in some, not as good in some. Neither is perfect. If you approach it with an open mind you'll do better.


+1 :up:

Steve, you've said it all.


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## jmliii (Sep 1, 2004)

If you already have cable for distribution of TV through the house why not use them both. We DVR mostly from the networks and both do a good job on network "Season Passes" and "Record Series". The Tivo HD handles the overlap programming by clipping the lower priority program while the HR-2x doesn't. In my opinion the Tivo HD has better networking of home music, photos and video. The HR-2x is surprisingly good for recording series programming but no "Suggestions" if you like that Tivo feature. My biggest complaint about the HR-2x is its lack of a useful autorecord or "Wishlist". I do miss the Directivo wishlist for Premiere and Finale programming. Tivo HD is also less useful than Directivo in this regard but better than HR-2x. As for ease of use Tivo is still best and is still the DVR used by my wife, so having them both keeps everyone happy.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

jmliii said:


> ...I do miss the Directivo wishlist for Premiere and Finale programming. Tivo HD is also less useful than Directivo in this regard but better than HR-2x...


Could you say more about this please? I would like to understand the difference you are referring to. Thanks!


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## jmliii (Sep 1, 2004)

Directivo had wishlists to record season premiere and season finale programming. The Tivo HD and the HR-2x machines do not have these features. Their most similar feature is keywords that capture too many unintended programs. I think this relates to the way the programming is tagged for keywords. Anyway is was handy to have the programs recorded in situations where I did not have a season pass in place.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

jmliii said:


> Directivo had wishlists to record season premiere and season finale programming. The Tivo HD and the HR-2x machines do not have these features. Their most similar feature is keywords that capture too many unintended programs. I think this relates to the way the programming is tagged for keywords. Anyway is was handy to have the programs recorded in situations where I did not have a season pass in place.


Actually it's quite easy to do an autorecord search on the HR2x to get just premiere's using the boolean search terms. You can even narrow it down to just your local channels even if you didn't want to get premier's on cable channels. Many did so with great success a few months ago. There is a pretty big thread on DBSTalk just about the booleans search terms and how users have found the best way to use them.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

shibby191 said:


> Actually it's quite easy to do an autorecord search on the HR2x to get just premiere's using the boolean search terms. You can even narrow it down to just your local channels even if you didn't want to get premier's on cable channels. Many did so with great success a few months ago. There is a pretty big thread on DBSTalk just about the booleans search terms and how users have found the best way to use them.


I wonder how many people even know what Boolean means let alone know how to use it. I don't know and don't want to put forth the effort to learn. At some point there needs to be a search or wishlist function for the masses.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

joed32 said:


> I wonder how many people even know what Boolean means let alone know how to use it. I don't know and don't want to put forth the effort to learn. At some point there needs to be a search or wishlist function for the masses.


Agreed. The thought is that what they have done so far is the "under the hood" for a new search functionality/GUI to make it easier. But who knows what will really happen. They may just leave it the way it is since the vast majority of users (Joe Sixpack) probably never do super advanced searching anyway. But hopefully they'll put a GUI around it.

Having said that, the search terms are very easy to use and very powerful, even more so then a Tivo Wishlist in many cases. Should take all of 2 minutes to learn to use them if you wish to spend the time.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I'd like to see them offer a web browser interface for searches that get sent to the box the way that recording requests can. It would be easier to define a UI for searches that way rather than trying to do it with funny keywords and the Ouija board.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

The discussion about booleans is a perfect example of how well thought out the HR boxes are. Tivo is the premier box and continues to be the premier box simply because they think about how the client will use the box.

The HR2x on the other hand was quickly put together by a video supplier with the idea of jamming features into the box, but little thought on how those features will be used. Therefore it takes someone with computer programming skills (or an engineer, etc) and internet forums just to understand how to manipulate the box.

It's quite clear that many many people do not like the HR2x. I am sure that is a major reason why D* has invited Tivo back. Plus we read about D* developing another user interface.

My advice is if you like the Tivo, stick with it - don't go through the potential agony that others have just for a few months.

I switched to cable - the total cost for me is actually less because I use cable for my internet service. In addition to having a superior box, I like the fact that I am not tied to a contract with cable.

I also feel that more and more offerings will come over the internet, such as the Netfilx now available on my Tivo. There is certainly more independence and incentive for Tivo to find these services than D*.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

It's vaporware until it actually hits the streets. If you can last till 2010 to get one then use your standard DirectvTivo otherwise dump Directv and get a SA Tivo with all the great features to boot.

Save some money *ditch Directv* and *don't go with cable either*. Just get a pair of rabbit ears and a Tivo HD.... then you'll have OTA HD and can use Netflix, Amazon Video Downloads, Jaman, and CinemaNow (Disney) to get more content.



Fleemo17 said:


> So if a HD DirecTiVo unit probably won't hit the shelves until 2010, what advice do folks have for going HD? Dump DirecTV or dump TiVo? I've heard that DirecTV's DVRs don't hold a candle to TiVo, but I have been very satisfied with their service. What to do, what to do?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

magnus said:


> Save some money *ditch Directv* and *don't go with cable either*. Just get a pair of rabbit ears and a Tivo HD.... then you'll have OTA HD and can use Netflix, Amazon Video Downloads, Jaman, and CinemaNow (Disney) to get more content.


If I did that, I'd receive a grand total of one station, one I don't ever watch. Nice idea if you're in a major city with a good signal.

I'm quite happy with DirecTV, including the HR2x DVRs. If and when the new DTiVos come out, I'll very likely get one, but I'm not holding my breath for it.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

stevel said:


> If I did that, I'd receive a grand total of one station, one I don't ever watch. Nice idea if you're in a major city with a good signal.
> 
> I'm quite happy with DirecTV, including the HR2x DVRs. If and when the new DTiVos come out, I'll very likely get one, but I'm not holding my breath for it.


I'd say you're lucky that you're happy, because you have no alternative. I'm guessing most of the rest of us have alternatives and don't need to settle for second-class replacement products.

You're also lucky that D* is finally coming back to the industry leader. Not much longer to wait now before the good stuff comes back

Meanwhile, the rest of us can enjoy Tivo now and look forward to the additional internet offerings that are coming along.:up:


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> I'd say you're lucky that you're happy, because you have no alternative. I'm guessing most of the rest of us have alternatives and don't need to settle for second-class replacement products.
> 
> You're also lucky that D* is finally coming back to the industry leader. Not much longer to wait now before the good stuff comes back
> 
> Meanwhile, the rest of us can enjoy Tivo now and look forward to the additional internet offerings that are coming along.:up:


Missed you -

Depends on your point of view as to what is second class or not. A dvr just is a dvr, any company can make one. Content is still the reason why many people stay with directv. "finally coming back"? can you please any validation documentation that shows they ever lost the lead, talking about a link that contains information that can be verified and validated.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> The discussion about booleans is a perfect example of how well thought out the HR boxes are. Tivo is the premier box and continues to be the premier box simply because they think about how the client will use the box.
> 
> The HR2x on the other hand was quickly put together by a video supplier with the idea of jamming features into the box, but little thought on how those features will be used. Therefore it takes someone with computer programming skills (or an engineer, etc) and internet forums just to understand how to manipulate the box.
> 
> ...


Curious on this statement - "My advice is if you like the Tivo, stick with it - don't go through the potential agony that others have just for a few months."

Are you telling them to go to cable or stay with Directv? If dirctv the first possible deliver date for a tivo based unit is more then a "few months" away, it is at least 7 months before the first unit might possibly be ready for a end user to select as a optional box - and given the track record that they have, would be very suprised if you see anything before 1st quarter 2010 - if it does not get put on hold like other projects because of the economy. If you any and valid documentation saying that the unit is a few months away can you post a link?

what is so amazing aobut netflix on the tivo? just shows that they are finally starting to climb the currect technology ladder - now thye are just 9-12 months behind the curve for somethings


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

sjberra said:


> Missed you -
> "finally coming back"? can you please any validation documentation that shows they ever lost the lead, talking about a link that contains information that can be verified and validated.


I believe he meant they are going back to TiVo which in his opinion is the industry leader.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

LOL. It's been quite civil around here for a while. People asking questions and getting answers. People giving opinions on what to do (go to cable, stick it out, whatever), all civil and with good advice. Then I figured out why, RS4 hasn't been posting. Now he's back and with his first posting the thread is already going downhill and I can see the venom starting to creep back in. Hopefully RS4 decides to go back in hiding and just leave these threads alone and let people get good advice both pro and con without all the hate.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

RS4 said:


> ...
> The HR2x on the other hand was quickly put together by a video supplier with the idea of jamming features into the box, but little thought on how those features will be used. Therefore it takes someone with computer programming skills (or an engineer, etc) and internet forums just to understand how to manipulate the box.
> 
> It's quite clear that many many people do not like the HR2x. I am sure that is a major reason why D* has invited Tivo back. Plus we read about D* developing another user interface.
> ...


I agree with you that the usability of the HR2x interface is questionable and certainly no match for the very well thought out Tivo interface.

But I don't believe that user feedback on the Hr2x is why Directv signed a new deal with Tivo. If that was the case then why only offer Tivo to users that agreed to pay extra for it. My expectation is that less than 5% of their DVR users will agree to pay extra monthly for the Tivo interface.

I'm more inclined to believe that they don't want to have to replace the million+ active (but very old) DirecTivo boxes when the current deal expires. So they signed a new deal to keep Tivo happy. It was not a great deal for Tivo in my opinion. A great deal for Tivo would have been to go back to Tivo for everything which would have generated millions of new subscribers for Tivo and a lot more monthly revenue for Tivo.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> I agree with you that the usability of the HR2x interface is questionable and certainly no match for the very well thought out Tivo interface.
> 
> But I don't believe that user feedback on the Hr2x is why Directv signed a new deal with Tivo. If that was the case then why only offer Tivo to users that agreed to pay extra for it. My expectation is that less than 5% of their DVR users will agree to pay extra monthly for the Tivo interface.
> 
> I'm more inclined to believe that they don't want to have to replace the million+ active (but very old) DirecTivo boxes when the current deal expires. So they signed a new deal to keep Tivo happy. It was not a great deal for Tivo in my opinion. A great deal for Tivo would have been to go back to Tivo for everything which would have generated millions of new subscribers for Tivo and a lot more monthly revenue for Tivo.


I have to agree with you, but 5% is about double what I expect.

The learning curve on the HR2x is steeper, but probably because it seems to have more options and features, not so much because the Tivo interface is so well thought out. It is, but I had a period of adjustment coming from DISH DVRs as well, to the SDTivo. There were a number of things that Tivo did not have that the DISH DVRs did that made me scratch my head wondering "why not?". Of course what they had that DISH didn't have was significant reliability and expansion capability, which quickly outweighed any objections.

It took time to get used to the HR20 (I'm a year in and still learning ) but I hardly consider it user-hostile or ergonomically unsound. And it's just as reliable (even more so) than my two remaining HR10s. The HR2X is also undoubtably the fastest-improving DVR platform ever. Now, with the Replay brain trust in house, by the time the new DTivo debuts, Tivo may even have a hard time competing with the HR2x if improvement keeps on at the current rapid pace.

For DTV, new Tivo is a win-win. They can use the perception of quality that Tivo has (earned or not) to transition Tivo lovers, and make the subscriber eat the difference in monthly cost (not the deal the current DTivos have) by charging a premium. You can bet that Tivo is not getting the deal from DTV that they got years ago when they had a stranglehold on DVR quality and DTV had no other game to go to. They (Tivo) probably blinked, and probably had to for the new deal.

For those who aren't that high on Tivo or can't afford the premium, DTV has a perfectly-good contender of their own in the HR2x. And for some of us, having at least one of each is the best of both worlds. It also creates a healthy competition between Tivo and DTV's in-house DVR team, which can only pay off for DTV regardless who reigns supreme.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> LOL. It's been quite civil around here for a while. People asking questions and getting answers. People giving opinions on what to do (go to cable, stick it out, whatever), all civil and with good advice. Then I figured out why, RS4 hasn't been posting. Now he's back and with his first posting the thread is already going downhill and I can see the venom starting to creep back in. Hopefully RS4 decides to go back in hiding and just leave these threads alone and let people get good advice both pro and con without all the hate.


Yes, I continue pointing out that a huge number of people, including the press, and myself feel the Tivo is a superior product. Your motives on the other hand appear to be that of a D* fanboy who's only object is to get as many people to stay (or join) D* as possible. One can only imagine if there is more under the covers.

Someone who continues to trivialize the UI is either making excuses for the computer interface that D* chose to use, or doesn't understand the marketplace. The object of the game for designers of electronic equipment is hide the complexity of the hardware and software from the user. So a person using a dvr shouldn't need a computer background in order to use the box That is why the Tivo is so popular with people who have used it and then had to go on to another product. Just look at the people on this and other forums salivating at the prospect of having a new HD Tivo on the D* service.

So, I'm not at all surprised with you questioning my motives. I'm guessing that others are guiding that kind of talk. And of course, it takes the focus away from people questioning your motives.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> I agree with you that the usability of the HR2x interface is questionable and certainly no match for the very well thought out Tivo interface.
> 
> But I don't believe that user feedback on the Hr2x is why Directv signed a new deal with Tivo. If that was the case then why only offer Tivo to users that agreed to pay extra for it. My expectation is that less than 5% of their DVR users will agree to pay extra monthly for the Tivo interface.
> 
> I'm more inclined to believe that they don't want to have to replace the million+ active (but very old) DirecTivo boxes when the current deal expires. So they signed a new deal to keep Tivo happy. It was not a great deal for Tivo in my opinion. A great deal for Tivo would have been to go back to Tivo for everything which would have generated millions of new subscribers for Tivo and a lot more monthly revenue for Tivo.


You could be more accurate as to why the relationship got rekindled than I. We can only speculate because I have no inside knowledge and am not aware of anyone who is. I continue however to believe that the acceptance by the public, and the on-going problems D* has had with their own box has influenced the decision.

I do however believe this is a good deal for both companies. I believe I read that Tivo is getting more money from D* then they are currently getting. D* can gain back some of the top-tier clients that left by offering Tivo again. Tivo is also bound to improve their numbers as the DTivo users start recommending the new DTivo HD (when it becomes available.)

As to the 'when is this going to be available' question, I believe that Tivo actually came out with the Tivo HD ahead of schedule, so there is just as much reason to believe that the new Tivo could come out in the quarter scheduled as to those who say 2010. As we all know - 'time will tell' what actually happens.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

I am more interested in seeing D* offer HD-only packages like E*. I'd rather pay less and just get what I need -- that would do a lot towards coaxing me away from my HR10 to a HR20. In fact when my commitment is up with D* (in a matter of months I believe), I will be considering switching to to E* because of their TurboHD packages.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Yes, I continue pointing out that a huge number of people, including the press, and myself feel the Tivo is a superior product.


Yes, that's quite obvious. And pointed out just fine by me and others, but without the venom you always bring to the table.



> So, I'm not at all surprised with you questioning my motives. I'm guessing that others are guiding that kind of talk. And of course, it takes the focus away from people questioning your motives.


I guess you haven't been reading my posts for the past few months. It's a shame that you're still living in the past. Guess you've missed several posts where I and others direct people to cable or Fios or give the facts about the upcoming new DirecTivo HD and what people's options are. The difference here is that my posts leave out the emotion and just give the facts on the situation, something you seem to not be able to do. I challenge you to find otherwise.

Take out the emotion and the hate and the venom you have and more people might listen to what you have to say. Going to cable or Fios and getting a Tivo HD is just fine, it really is. Honest!


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> Do some more research. Many of us have both Tivo-based DirecTV DVRs and the newer non-Tivo HD DVRs. The HD DVRs are really quite stable now and provide many features you won't find on the
> Tivo-based DVRs.


Features DirecTv Dvrs don't have:

Amazon Downloads? NOT
Like Multiroom Viewing? NOT
Better Season Pass tools? NOT
TivoCast Videos? NOT
Netflix instant Streaming? NOT

Features I'd rather not have:

Does snow on antenna block Reception? YES
Crappy Non Intuitive Directv Remotes? YES

I am not fully happy with cable, but now that Cox has issued turning adapters we now get all HD channels they offer. There is the looming issue of download caps from most of the cable providers on their internet services. FiOS is close by and I will probably go to it once its available, but I don't see any reason to go back to satellite. Although I must say the direct DVRs are far better than cable DVRs, it can't replace Tivo.

Do directv dvrs still have the 50 season pass limit?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Multiroom viewing? YES (in beta)
Netflix Streaming? YES (with free software)
Better search tools? YES
Frequent cable outages? NOT
Frequent price hikes? NOT


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Tivo Lifetime and OTA HD

Price Hike? Never
Outages? No way
All the other advantages? Heck yeah



stevel said:


> Multiroom viewing? YES (in beta)
> Netflix Streaming? YES (with free software)
> Better search tools? YES
> Frequent cable outages? NOT
> Frequent price hikes? NOT


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## Cygnet Boy (Mar 21, 2003)

I have had D*TV since 1995, and I guess they consider me a valuable customer. To wit: About 8 months ago, I called them and told them I was considering going to Cable. A very nice "American" representative was quick to offer $10.00 off per month for a year, with no extension in my service commitment, and Free Showtime and Starz for 3 months. I considered that a decent offer on their part. I also have signed up about 30 people over the last 12 years for their service (and they gave me a nice little perk for each one of them).

For about a year and a half, I worked as a salesman/installer for one of their local retailers but it was during a time where HD was just coming online, so the dish at that time was HUGE, and the equipment really wasn't all that great (TiVo excluded), and very hard to aim. I did a lot of HD TiVo installations with those large KA/KU dishes, and I'm glad to see them go by the wayside.

Now, it's Christmas 2008 and I've bought myself a new 50" HDTV Display. I want to upgrade my system (Currently using 2 S2-DTiVo's). I wonder what others have experienced in this arena. I want (at a minimum) for them to replace my 3LNB Dish with a Slimline Dish, a HR23-700, an AT-21, and installation done free. Is this too much to ask? I would appreciate any help that anyone might offer. Has anyone else done this lately?

Also, I currently have my upper-level and lower-level TV/DVRs diplexed so that the upstairs TV can receive the lower DVR's signal (RF Out-Channel 3), without having to hack the box to enable multi-room viewing and a Leapfrog to send the IR remote control signal to the lower DVR. Thank goodness for the "Stock" TiVo Remote with a DVR1/DVR2 Switch. Would a RF Modulator connected to a HR23-700's SD Video/Audio ports (also outputting RF Channel 3) work to send the signal upstairs as well? I think that it will but would appreciate any thoughts on that.

Lastly, will the slimline (5LNB) dish be able to be mounted on the same pole as the 3-LNB Dish that I currently have. The one that I have now is mounted about 4" off the ground, and hiding behind a bush so it's not visible from the street. This is an important one because I don't want the dish to be very high off the ground, and visible from the street.

Thanks very much for any information that you can offer..

CB 

__________________
"Agnatio Prævalidus Supersum"

&#8213;Philips 708 (S2, 250GB/215 Hours) - In Service
&#8213;DTV R10 (S2, 250GB/213 Hours) - In Service
&#8213;Philips DSX 5500 - In Service in RV
&#8213;Hughes GXCEBOTD (S1, 2x80GB, 140 Hrs) - Not in Service
&#8213;Philips 7000 (S2, 250GB/213 Hours) - Not in Service
&#8213;Sony RMVL1000 Remote
&#8213;Philps Pronto Neo TSU500/01 Remote


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cygnet Boy said:


> I want (at a minimum) for them to replace my 3LNB Dish with a Slimline Dish, a HR23-700, an AT-21, and installation done free. Is this too much to ask? I would appreciate any help that anyone might offer. Has anyone else done this lately?


Well, you'll certainly get the Slimline and any multiswitch you need installed for free. If you get your DVR from DirecTV you can't guarantee what model you'll get. If you for sure want an HR23 you'll need to get it at retail like at Best Buy or Solid Signal. Many have gotten DirecTV to credit them the cost of going to retail so it still ends up being $99 or free.



> Also, I currently have my upper-level and lower-level TV/DVRs diplexed so that the upstairs TV can receive the lower DVR's signal (RF Out-Channel 3), without having to hack the box to enable multi-room viewing and a Leapfrog to send the IR remote control signal to the lower DVR. Thank goodness for the "Stock" TiVo Remote with a DVR1/DVR2 Switch. Would a RF Modulator connected to a HR23-700's SD Video/Audio ports (also outputting RF Channel 3) work to send the signal upstairs as well? I think that it will but would appreciate any thoughts on that.


The outputs are all active at the same time so you could have it connected via HDMI or Component to your HDTV and the Svideo or RCA outputs can go to your switch to use as you do today. I'm pretty sure there is no RF/coax out on any of the current HD receivers, you'd need to use Svideo or RCA.

Do note that MRV is in testing now so if you can get all your receivers on the network eventually you'll have MRV. Could be something to work toward.



> Lastly, will the slimline (5LNB) dish be able to be mounted on the same pole as the 3-LNB Dish that I currently have.


No, the Slimline dishes require a 2" pole. But you can get an adapter like this which will slip over your current pole and make it 2" for the new dish. Well worth the $20 bucks (I use one myself). http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SKY1101
If you're not doing the install then get this first. By the way, the Slimline dishes really are easy to point, not much different then the old Phase III dishes. You do need to fine tune for the KA sats but it's pretty simple to do.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

stevel said:


> Multiroom viewing? YES (in beta)
> Netflix Streaming? YES (with free software)
> Better search tools? YES
> Frequent cable outages? NOT
> Frequent price hikes? NOT


LOL. Also...

Hulu, Youtube, CBS.com, ESPN, CNN Streaming: YES (with free software)
Music, photos, Podcasts, Vidcasts Streaming: YES (with free software)

After recent wind storm, cable out for days: YES
DirecTV out: NOT


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

magnus said:


> Tivo Lifetime and OTA HD
> 
> Price Hike? Never
> Outages? No way
> All the other advantages? Heck yeah


If all I watched was the major networks I'd be right with ya.


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## kenboy (Sep 24, 2006)

I'm finally switching to FIOS; they've been here for going on four hours. I kind of feel bad for them -- switching from DTV is a real pain for them, since the cables to my three hooked up TV's all go to the dish on the roof right now. 

Anyway, I've been with DTV since I stuck an aluminum poll in a bucket and filled the bucket with cement to make a roof-clearing balcony antenna in an apartment ten years ago. We took DTV with us when we bought our house in 2001, but I'm in a pretty wooded area, and we were never able to see the 119 bird from our house, so our HD content was always limited -- basically TNT, ESPN, and HD Movie Net (our locals come in great with an antenna). With one HD-250 and one SD Tivo, I really didn't want to switch to the DTV branded DVR, but FIOS has been appealing for a while, especially because I know we can swap out their DVR for HD Tivos if we want to -- and we probably will in the spring, after we're done with all the Christmas spending. 

It's going to be weird getting used to a new system, and my seven-year-old is really crabby about losing his "own" Tivo in the family room, but when you combine the tv & internet costs, I'm saving a decent amount by switching -- and I'll have the Sci Fi network in HD before BSG starts back up!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I'd love to have FiOS as an option. Unfortunately, Verizon abandoned all of northern New England and the new operator of the FiOS broadband service here says they have no plans to expand it or provide TV service. It's frustrating seeing the FiOS TV ads for Massachusetts. At least I got FiOS broadband before they disappeared.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That's not all that I watch but it's the majority for sure.

Netflix is a nice new addition.



shibby191 said:


> If all I watched was the major networks I'd be right with ya.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> Yes, I continue pointing out that a huge number of people, including the press, and myself feel the Tivo is a superior product. Your motives on the other hand appear to be that of a D* fanboy who's only object is to get as many people to stay (or join) D* as possible. One can only imagine if there is more under the covers.
> 
> Someone who continues to trivialize the UI is either making excuses for the computer interface that D* chose to use, or doesn't understand the marketplace. The object of the game for designers of electronic equipment is hide the complexity of the hardware and software from the user. So a person using a dvr shouldn't need a computer background in order to use the box That is why the Tivo is so popular with people who have used it and then had to go on to another product. Just look at the people on this and other forums salivating at the prospect of having a new HD Tivo on the D* service.
> 
> So, I'm not at all surprised with you questioning my motives. I'm guessing that others are guiding that kind of talk. And of course, it takes the focus away from people questioning your motives.


Supply verifable documentation to statements and it might go over easier. Document, validate and document again. Not talking about non-verifiable polls that other sites or this site users. there are Directv Fanbois, there are Tiveo fanbois, the are fanboies who belive they are both so far behind the tech curve they will never catch up


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## Cruzan (Dec 21, 2001)

If you can, keep your Tivo and use it for SD and over-the-air. I have both and it's nice to have 4 shows recording at once.

By the way, the HR-21 is a piece of crap. It does do some things in ways I like better than the Tivo, but it's very unreliable about recording, and it has nothing like wishlists. If I didn't also have my Tivo and over-the-air recording, I'd switch from Directv.

Here are some of the reasons why the HR-21 is ****:
- It doesn't record what I tell it to. If I manually select a program to record, it frequently (about half the time) records something else instead. I think it prioritizes stuff I pick out of the guide below everything else, and even when I tell it to not record that something else, it records it anyway. It's a piece of crap.

- There is something called "saved searches" which are supposed to work like wishlists, except they don't. I want to record all Golden State Warrior games (don't ask - it's an addiction) but the saved search for it chooses blacked-out stations and doesn't update when the guide changes frequently. Recent software updates have fixed some bugs, such are recording both the SD and HD versions of the same program at the same time, or recording off of channels I don't get, but I'm still pleasantly surprised when it records what I want.

Still, the HR-21 has improved a tiny bit with each update, which isn't always true with Tivo's. It is also a much better box for watching live TV.


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## ROB-USA (Feb 1, 2005)

Fleemo17 said:


> So if a HD DirecTiVo unit probably won't hit the shelves until 2010, what advice do folks have for going HD? Dump DirecTV or dump TiVo? I've heard that DirecTV's DVRs don't hold a candle to TiVo, but I have been very satisfied with their service. What to do, what to do?


....but, after having been a DTV subscriber for many years with my Series 2 TiVO AND after having done enough reasearch (here, there and EVERYwhere) to earn a PhD,, I've decided to dump DTV and will be subscribing to Comcast (HD), effective 12/26/08.

The bottom line.... I like DTV, but my heart belongs to TiVO.

My first bite at the Comcast apple resulted in a less than enjoyable encounter (in person) with a less than informed Comcast CSR.

Her attitude was priceless, because she was 100% sure Comcast couldn't provide me either multi-or single stream CableCards for my TiVO HD XL.

After I had to REPEATEDLY insist that in fact it could be done and further explained the FCC mandated cable companies HAD to provide the CableCards (upon request) AND after having to nearly put a gun to her head to have her "check with a service technician," she sheepishly came back and in a pissy way, said she "would" do it. Lucky me!

That said, we'll see how the actual hook-up and service experience goes, and maybe then I can give you some worthy advice.

Cheers!:up:


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I just had to deal with this decision. I have had Dtv for about 12 years and Tivo for 8. Got two new hi-def TVs this Christmas.

I called DirecTV ready to defect to cable if they didn't give me free equipment. After being sent to the Customer Retention person, I was given the following deal: 

1 DVR for free.
1 DVR for $199 - 1 year of free hi-def ($120 value)
my current leased box would go to the non-hi-def TV we were adding to the mix.
New dish and installation for free.

The guy came today. He hooked up the two DVRs, and also added a new hi-def receiver to the third TV and just took my old leased non-HD box. I explained that that wasn't what I was expecting but he said it was on the order and the other box wouldn't work. After checking my account, it looks like I only got credited for $99 of the $199 I was supposed to get for the free DVR. It also looks like I didn't get charged for the third unexpected receiver. So I will need to call again and make sure that I *don't* get charged for that, and get the additional $100 in credit.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

It was all timing for me. I tried to hold out for the new DTV Tivo, but couldn't. The hard cut off of the MPEG 2 channels was the final straw. Verizon Fios became available just before that so I switched. I repaced my HR10-250 with a Tivo HD and swiched to Fios.

The combo of Fios and a Tivo HD is working out great. Ton's of HD channels, easier wiring, reliable Tivo recording and no more weather break ups. The cost with the integrated internet etc was lower as well, but not the main reason for the switch. The Fios picture quality is stunning. I can't tell the difference between Fios and Ota for HD. The SD channels are much better. 

The networking was an unexpected bonus. Even though I added a 500 Gb MyDvr expander, being able to offload large HD shows to my PC storage and move them back on demand is great. Internet scheduling works easy and of course the support from the community here is just amazing.

I was happy with Direct TV and would never have left if they still offered a Tivo solution. Unfortunately now that I have, I'm probably never going back.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> LOL. Also...
> 
> After recent wind storm, cable out for days: YES
> DirecTV out: NOT


when the power went out here for several days during the last hurricane cable was down the entire time. all my neighbors came to my house to watch the news and weather on directv.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> For DTV, new Tivo is a win-win. They can use the perception of quality that Tivo has (earned or not) to transition Tivo lovers, and make the subscriber eat the difference in monthly cost (not the deal the current DTivos have) by charging a premium. You can bet that Tivo is not getting the deal from DTV that they got years ago when they had a stranglehold on DVR quality and DTV had no other game to go to. They (Tivo) probably blinked, and probably had to for the new deal.


It's a good deal for both parties. Albeit for different reasons, I think the need for the deal was equal on both sides.

Excerpt from TiVo 10-Q, Sept 9, 2008:

*On September 2, 2008, the Company entered into a new Amended & Restated Development Agreement with DIRECTV, Inc., which amends and restates, its prior Development Agreement with DIRECTV.* The new agreement extends the expiration date of the agreement with DIRECTV from February 15, 2010 to February 15, 2015, with DIRECTV having the right to extend further until February 15, 2018, subject to limited exceptions. Under the terms of our non-exclusive agreement, TiVo will develop a new version of the TiVo ® service for DIRECTVs broadband-enabled high definition DVR platform. *As part of this new agreement, DIRECTV will pay a substantially higher monthly fee for households using the new high definition DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo than the fees for previously deployed DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service. DIRECTV will continue to pay the current monthly fee for all households using only the previously deployed DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service. The fees paid by DIRECTV are subject to monthly minimum payments that escalate during the term of the agreement starting in February 2010, and those minimum payments are substantially higher than the minimum payments in the prior agreement.* On an annual basis, the Company will continue to defer a portion of these fees as a non-refundable credit to fund mutually agreed development, with excess development work to be funded up-front by DIRECTV subject to limited future fee credits.

*DIRECTV is also obligated to annual marketing commitments, including significant cross-channel promotion of the high definition DIRECTV DVR with TiVo service to be developed by TiVo. Further, the new agreement extends each partys covenant not to assert its patents against the other party with respect to each companys products and services deployed prior to the expiration of the agreement, subject to limited exceptions.* In addition, going forward, DIRECTV is entitled to most favored customer terms as compared with other multi-channel video distributors in the United States to whom TiVo grants a license to distribute certain TiVo technology in the future. *DIRECTV has the right to terminate the agreement in the event it is the subject of certain change of control transactions involving certain companies. TiVo also has the right to terminate the agreement, including the patent covenant, if we are unable to deliver the product within a specified time period due to non-TiVo issues.*

In addition, on September 2, 2008, the Company entered into a new Second Amended & Restated Services Agreement with DIRECTV, Inc., which amends and restates, its prior Amended & Restated Services Agreement with DIRECTV. Under this new agreement, TiVo continues to have the right to sell advertising and audience research and measurement products in connection with DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service deployed prior to the effective date of this new agreement, and such rights will extend to new high definition DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service to be developed by TiVo.


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## mistergogolak (Jul 14, 2008)

I was a long-time DTV subscriber because of the integrated Tivo. I got fed up last July and switched to Time Warner with Tivo HD here in Myrtle Beach, SC. I have had nothing but problems with the setup. Just yesterday basic channels disappeared from one of my Tivos. Channels are constantly appearing/disappearing. One cable card doesn't work at all despite several calls and visits. 

The moment that DTV provides a Tivo receiver I will abandon this miserable ship. I have had far too many headaches. 

I felt that DTV was gouging me at the time because of what they were charging for *leased* equipment (I still think that's ********, but that's another story...) 

There are pluses and minuses to every situation. I like the Tivo 2 Go feature and multiroom viewing (when TWC doesn't mess with the program properties), but the channel issues are unforgivable. Tivo blames SA cards. TWC claims that no one owns a Tivo. It's a support nightmare. I can't recommend switching to cable. MY experience has sucked big time.


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