# TiVo HD has no live TV picture - sporadically



## jmartin724 (Jan 28, 2009)

I was wondering if someone could help me out.

I have two TiVos, a TiVo HD and a series 2. The Series 2 has been working great for almost three years now, but my TiVo is starting to give me some issues less than a year into having it.

A few times a week, I will turn on my TV attached to the TiVo HD to watch live TV and there will be only a gray screen, as if there is no signal. The remote works fine, and if I hit the info button, I get the info of what I am supposed to be seeing. I change the channel and still see no live TV. The menus work and I can watched any recorded program I want, but live TV is the issue. To get it back I have to reboot the system. Not an issues if I have to do it every once in a while but kind of a pain a couple of times a week.

Any ideas what this could be?

Thanks!


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

There have been many complaints of this issue. I have it frequently - most recently last night. I'm convinced its something in the software.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

This is a known issue on analog channels introduced with the 11.0 software. The analog tuners will periodically "go out" until a reboot, to the detriment of basic/analog cable customers; this does not affect digital channels. Many, many members on this forum have reported the same issue so TiVo is aware of it and almost certainly working on a fix. 

In my experience, it is very rare for TiVo to release software with such a major bug, and when it has happened, they've been good about getting out a fix. I expect this issue to be fixed very soon but I have no information to that effect.


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## russ_ (Oct 9, 2008)

bkdtv said:


> This is a known issue on analog channels introduced with the 11.0 software. The analog tuners will periodically "go out" until a reboot, to the detriment of basic/analog cable customers; this does not affect digital channels.


I'm seeing this on all HD channels but not SD and the timing does seem to line up with the release of 11.0. Typically changing the channel is enough to fix it.


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## jmartin724 (Jan 28, 2009)

russ_ said:


> I'm seeing this on all HD channels but not SD and the timing does seem to line up with the release of 11.0. Typically changing the channel is enough to fix it.


It first it was just fixed by switching channels, but now it has gotten worse and requires the reboot every time! I hope they update it soon! It's driving me crazy!


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## russ_ (Oct 9, 2008)

jmartin724 said:


> It first it was just fixed by switching channels, but now it has gotten worse and requires the reboot every time! I hope they update it soon! It's driving me crazy!


Mine isn't that bad, yet.... However, now nearly 100% of new (HD) recordings end up as partial due to this making this a pricey paperweight. I've tried swapping cable cards and numerous calls to tivo and comcast (at the request of tivo who claims it is cable card related). I encourage you to call tivo; maybe with enough calls they'll recognize this as a software issue. Right now they are telling me I should pay $150 to replace my unit :down:


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jmartin724 said:


> A few times a week, I will turn on my TV attached to the TiVo HD to watch live TV and there will be only a gray screen, as if there is no signal. The remote works fine, and if I hit the info button, I get the info of what I am supposed to be seeing. I change the channel and still see no live TV. The menus work and I can watched any recorded program I want, but live TV is the issue. To get it back I have to reboot the system. Not an issues if I have to do it every once in a while but kind of a pain a couple of times a week.


Is there still a buffer of "live TV" that you can rewind in? If so, if you rewind into it, is it really from some time before it should be (i.e. could be many hours earlier)?

That happened to me on my S3, and it seemed to be a hard drive going bad. (Though just las night, I had my S3 hang at the end of a 'save to vcr' session, and a bunch of remote presses caused it to reboot -- which was another problem I was seeing). My TivoHD is now sporadically seeing the problem I mention which SEEMS to be what you're seeing.

Basically, it seems like a hard drive going bad to me.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

mattack said:


> Basically, it seems like a hard drive going bad to me.


It seems like there are an awful lot of Tivo hard drives going bad simultaneously then. As I posted previously in another thread, I can no longer use my Tivo HD to record HD programming.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Mine is doing the same thing about twice a week. I'm on my 4th cold reboot of the night and still have nothing but the GSOD. It's been doing this since I got it in May 2008. I stupidly believed TIVO would resolve the issue. They have not. I called TIVO support last week and they said it was hardware and to return the unit for replacement at $149 plus shipping. So the problem was introduced well before the version 11 fall update. I hate to throw good money after bad. Are the DVRupgrade units more reliable? Don't they have a better warranty than TIVO or does it just cover the HardDrives?


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## russ_ (Oct 9, 2008)

Cainebj said:


> It seems like there are an awful lot of Tivo hard drives going bad simultaneously then. As I posted previously in another thread, I can no longer use my Tivo HD to record HD programming.


I find it hard to believe this is some sudden hardware failure that all of us are seeing at once. After calling Tivo and Comcast a number of times, Tivo finally said (on my last call yesterday) that my case has been flagged as a _known issue_ and was being investigated. However, he wasn't able to give me more detail than that and said it would be up to 3 weeks before they know more. He also said the note claimed the issue was not software which I find baffling due to the number of instances being seen. In the meantime, HD is completely useless as it nearly always freezes so I've resorted to recording everything in SD 

I'll post more info if/when I have it.


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## jmartin724 (Jan 28, 2009)

thanks for the info, russ_. 

@ mattack: no, when this issue happens, i cannot rewind. or rather i can, but it is still a blank image. so i rewind and still see nothing. i am doubtful of it being a hard drive issue because even if my live tv picture is blank, i can go to my programs and previously recorded things. if it was a hard drive issue wouldn't it also crap out when hitting the my tivo button?


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

I called Tivo again yesterday. This time the CSR said it is a software issue they are working on. But no indication of when it might be fixed. THD is just a useless cool looking gadget with a dirty secret. IT DOESN'T WORK!!!


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## russ_ (Oct 9, 2008)

Since I'm not very patient when it comes to waiting for fixes, I gave Tivo a call again. I was told they are actively working on a (software) fix for an issue that _sounds related to mine_. The bad news is that this time I was told it could be up to 1 month  I'm really hoping that's going to be trimmed quite a bit...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Ok, if this is a software issue, I'm happier, since it will mean I won't have to get a 1 TB drive for my TivoHD quite as soon.. (But anecdotally, I was having what seemed to be EXACTLY the same problems with my S3 last year -- and they went away with a hard drive upgrade.)

Though one reply in another thread where I mentioned the same issue showed me a workaround BESIDES rebooting.

1) hit pause
2) hit up arrow
if that didn't fix it, switch tuners and repeat

That seems to fix it for me (temporarily), and without a reboot.. Now I have to get home before 9 to see that Scrubs will definitely record on my TivoHD.. (my S3 is recording far too much stuff already!)


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## russ_ (Oct 9, 2008)

mattack said:


> Ok, if this is a software issue, I'm happier, since it will mean I won't have to get a 1 TB drive for my TivoHD quite as soon.. (But anecdotally, I was having what seemed to be EXACTLY the same problems with my S3 last year -- and they went away with a hard drive upgrade.)


It sounds like your issue is manifesting slightly differently than mine since, at least so far, mine can always be solved by changing the channel. You might try calling Tivo and asking if your symptoms fit the bug they are working on. It sounded like they have a variety of symptoms so my guess would be yes but at least you'd get some sort of confirmation... In my case, everything but HD programming works fine which is why we've ruled out the drive.


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## Finney (Feb 4, 2009)

This 'problem' has been around for quite a while now and Tivo is well aware of it. I've called them numerous times about it. It happened on my HD 3 times this weekend. You can't trust your Tivo anymore to record anything you really want to see because who knows if it will or won't do it.

Luckily my series 2 still works like a champ.

I used to sing the praises of Tivo to all... but I'm not suggesting it to anyone until this issue is resolved. I don't want PO-ed friends calling me when their Tivo *LOCKS UP*.


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## SkeeterTV (Oct 27, 2005)

Ditto with the issue... Comcast analog cable, Tivo HD, no cablecards or expanded drive. It happened during Heroes the other night, not cool.


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## miketo (Nov 28, 2007)

TivoHD, Comcast, Expanded Basic, no CableCards, v. 11 software. Video output set to Native. HD channels present, analog ones showing the screen of death. I've called TiVo Support twice on this issue and the Tier 1 CSRs are vague, unhelpful, and unwilling to admit that THEIR CORE COMPETENCY FOR WHICH THEY GET PAID IS BROKEN.

It seems that the screen of death happens at some point in the 24 hours after using the Pause button during recorded show playback (analog playback, not digital stream). Sometimes the Pause has been on long enough that the TiVo drops back to live TV (to avoid screen burn-in). This leads me to believe that the codec implementation, the stream buffer, or an interaction between them causes the screen of death.

What really cheeses me off is that TiVo is more willing to let its customers hang in the wind, experiencing the problem and getting frustrated, without posting a simple acknowledgement of the problem and resolution status. Too many people have to come to the boards here, search around the forums, and then find out that TiVo is staying mute on a borked implementation. THAT, by definition, is poor customer service and a great way to drive off current and future customers.

I'm a signatory on the Cluetrain Manifesto (www.cluetrain.org) and TiVo is being run by marketroids who don't know or care to speak frankly with their customers. I *am* exploring other options because I don't appreciate doing business with an entity that doesn't *listen*.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

:shrug: If you're on a full ADS system, get a Cablecard and you'll get the digital expanded basic channels instead. No grey screens.


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## rongovia (Sep 26, 2007)

Hey folks - I have a TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder. I bought it last July 2008 (I have a much older model which still works like a gem with no hard drive replacement). Every few weeks, I would get the grey screen on my HD channels (and sometimes the analog channels as well) and a simple reboot would "fix" the issue. Over the last month, however, I've been getting these grey screens on a regular basis - sometimes every day, sometimes every other day, sometimes every few hours. Reboots continue to temporarily fix the issue. 

I have 2 S-Cards and I noticed that when I'm having the problem, under the cable card menu, I see one of the following messages for each card:

connected: yes, auth: unknown
connected: yes, auth: MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY
connected: yes, auth: SUBSCRIBED 

Yes, even sometimes it says SUBSCRIBED and I still don't see the HD channels, though more often than not, "unknown" or "MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY" is listed.

TiVo initially pointed to Comcast ("it's your cable cards"), Comcast pointed to TiVo ("it's the tuners in your TiVo. Cable cards either work or don't work, but we've never seem them work intermittently") and finally TiVo acknowledged the problem last night after I mentioned this thread ("oh yes, there is a known software issue and the fix is imminent. . . by the way, have you called Comcast to ping your cable cards?"). I liked that last bit.

The TiVo Rep told me that when the fix is issued, I should give the TiVo a "hard reboot" by unplugging it for at least 30 seconds. I asked him how I would know the fix was issued and he claimed I would be contacted via email and that it would also be in the TiVo messages area. I kind of doubt that actually. He said try "hard booting" every couple of days because he believed the fix was coming soon.

After hanging up, I went ahead and gave the TiVo a "hard reboot" and interestingly enough, the following message appeared during start up:
"Installing a service update. This will take a few minutes." After the reboot, all I had was grey screens. Ok, not fixed. I gave the TiVo a normal restart and everything was fine. As of this morning, I'm still fine - no grey screens. This is a day-to-day thing, so I will keep you posted.

As a postscript, the TiVo Rep told me that if problems persist and I need a new TiVo, it would cost me $150 to replace, but I could keep my lifetime service plan (how generous of them). What a way to stand behind your product. The warranty is as follows: within 30 days, full replacement; 30-90 days - $50 and after 90 days - $150. He couldn't tell me how long the after 90 day warranty (if you want to call it that) lasted ("I don't know, a couple of years").

Anyway, my suggestion is that you hard boot your system now for the service update and see what happens.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

rongovia said:


> After hanging up, I went ahead and gave the TiVo a "hard reboot" and interestingly enough, the following message appeared during start up:
> "Installing a service update. This will take a few minutes." After the reboot, all I had was grey screens. Ok, not fixed. I gave the TiVo a normal restart and everything was fine. As of this morning, I'm still fine - no grey screens. This is a day-to-day thing, so I will keep you posted.


What software version do you have?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

rongovia said:


> As a postscript, the TiVo Rep told me that if problems persist and I need a new TiVo, it would cost me $150 to replace, but I could keep my lifetime service plan (how generous of them). What a way to stand behind your product. The warranty is as follows: within 30 days, full replacement; 30-90 days - $50 and after 90 days - $150. He couldn't tell me how long the after 90 day warranty (if you want to call it that) lasted ("I don't know, a couple of years").


I'm not trying to *completely* defend them, but IMHO, 90 days is pretty typical nowadays. (Yes, I realize you said there's a fee for 30-90 days.)

In other words, the fact that they give _any_ reduced cost replacement for a Tivo with lifetime is more than they need to do -- since it is clearly pointed out that the lifetime subscription goes with the Tivo.


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## mdoeff (Oct 17, 2007)

I'm also experiencing the gray-screen problem on my Series 3. Prior to the gray screen appearing, I see heavy pixelation, video stopping/starting every second or two, and audio cutting out. According to Diagnostics, the signal on the tuner is excellent (95). SNR is 35 dB. The RS Uncorrected number is 670 (it should be 0).

Needless to say. I'm extremely frustrated by this.


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## rongovia (Sep 26, 2007)

sbourgeo said:


> What software version do you have?


I have Software Version: 11.0b.E2-01-2-648.

By the way, on my second day of not having the problem. Stay tuned . . .


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## miketo (Nov 28, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> :shrug: If you're on a full ADS system, get a Cablecard and you'll get the digital expanded basic channels instead. No grey screens.


Let's say GM comes to your house and installs a new electronic fuel injection system into your car. Oh--guess what. Your car no longer works. See, you have to pay an additional monthly fee to actually make the car run.

Would you roll over and pay the fee? Or maybe, just maybe, feel put out by this?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

rongovia said:


> I have Software Version: 11.0b.E2-01-2-648.
> 
> By the way, on my second day of not having the problem. Stay tuned . . .


Keep us posted.

It sounds like TiVo gave you an updated version of the TiVo software to fix the problem (or which they thought would fix the problem).


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## oldfarmboy (Oct 23, 2007)

I have Tivo HD box. My third one in just over a year.
I don't have a cable box. Running OTA only.
I have a splitter from the Antenna cable, one directly into the TV Antenna and the other into the Tivo box.

I too, get the info box and the slider bar at the bottom but no signal.
The station is good when switching to Antenna input. Also have a 96 on my signal meter.

The first incident of a blank screen started last summer. It is only one channel that is affected, my NBC local station 16-1 and 16-2 digital. Olympics station. Eventually it came back after a day or so. Then it happened again, and came back after awhile. 
After a few phone calls to Tivo CS it was an unknown to them. Twice I was told I would get a phone call back from L2 Technical. That didn't happen. I did receive some credit on my monthly.:up:

Just before the year warranty was up, it happened again and I called.
They told me if it continued after the year warranty they would replace the box. Well it, did do it again last month and they kept to their word and sent me a new box. No cash out of my pocket.:up:

I have had the new box two weeks and the same issue has returned!

I did all the rebooting, also connected directly into the antenna, bypassing the splitter just to check. No effect.

I just got off the phone with CS. L2 presenting issue to engineer meeting this afternoon and they said will call me back.

Will report here upon getting answer.


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## wdavew (Feb 11, 2009)

Customer support just told me that sometimes hdmi cables restrict the feed to the TV, and recommended not using the hdmi cable to the TV. Could this be part of the problem.
For me, I periodically have to reboot the Tivo to get the signal running again in the hdmi cable.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

wdavew said:


> Customer support just told me that sometimes hdmi cables restrict the feed to the TV, and recommended not using the hdmi cable to the TV. Could this be part of the problem.
> For me, I periodically have to reboot the Tivo to get the signal running again in the hdmi cable.


I see the gray screen issue with component cables


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## oldfarmboy (Oct 23, 2007)

wdavew said:


> Customer support just told me that sometimes hdmi cables restrict the feed to the TV, and recommended not using the hdmi cable to the TV. Could this be part of the problem.
> 
> Thanks but..
> I personally think this is a load from their end.
> ...


I have rebooted numerous times.

The problem, especially after reading other posts here indicate it is software or their hardware.

Thanks again!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

oldfarmboy said:


> I have rebooted numerous times.
> 
> The problem, especially after reading other posts here indicate it is software or their hardware.
> 
> Thanks again!


I haven't heard of any issue with OTA digital channels.

Broadcasters periodically turn secondary subchannels on an off for testing purposes. Some broadcasters even use different subchannels during different parts of the day, such as 4-2 from 8am-5pm and 4-3 from 5pm - 8am.

When you lose an OTA channel, the first thing you should do is perform a channel scan under Settings -> Channel Scan. If that still doesn't find the channel or the new subchannel, check the *Local HDTV Info and Reception forum* to see if others in the same area have lost the channel on other boxes. Prior to the shutoff date, some broadcasters still take their channels offline, temporarily, for maintenance during off-peak hours -- this affects everyone using off-air digital, not just TiVo users.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

I have this issue once every month or so on one of my two Tivo HDs. I am able to fix it by unplugging the coax and replugging it back in. Not sure why, but it fixes the problem for me (at least until it happens again). I am using just analog cable on that Tivo HD.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

I just got off the phone with them and they are working on the software update but no idea how long before it will be fixed. not everyone is having the issues. I know that I have to reboot/restart my Tivo when it goes to the grey screen. very annoying!


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## oldfarmboy (Oct 23, 2007)

I worked through this with a number of phone calls with the Tivo CSE, "Tivo Jerry". After some logging and giving some diagnostic info on the two channels 16.1 and 16.2 here in Eugene. He called KMTR and found they had some settings not within ATSC standards.
He called me this morning and _thanked me_ for helping them get this worked out! 
He was great in his communication and desire to work through this.
Thanks Jerry!!!:up:
See thread:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=418933


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## rongovia (Sep 26, 2007)

rongovia said:


> I have Software Version: 11.0b.E2-01-2-648.
> 
> By the way, on my second day of not having the problem. Stay tuned . . .


Made it an entire week before having the same problem again on one of the channels. Unplugged TiVo (no service update this time) and rebooted it. At least it is better than going to grey screens every day.

If in another month the software issue isn't fixed by TiVo, I will attempt to contact TiVo again for an update. After that, I have to decide is this really worth it? Do I want more reliability from my TiVo? I think the answer is yes. I've had no problems with my older unit for the past 5 years or so, but this really is unacceptable and I'm not prepared to pony up another $150 for another unit. If there is a known defect, most companies will fix the defect at no charge.

Any suggestions on how to contact folks at TiVo that are a little higher up the chain than the general TiVo customer service people?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

rongovia said:


> Made it an entire week before having the same problem again on one of the channels. Unplugged TiVo (no service update this time) and rebooted it. At least it is better than going to grey screens every day.


FYI, you can restart the Tivo from the menus. I'm not sure if it *really* makes much of a difference.. but since one is an 'intended' way to reboot, and one isn't, then I usually use that method. (Though of course Tivos also survive power outages, and I have just unplugged Tivos..)


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## 17blum (Jun 23, 2009)

I just hooked up a HD model and the set up went fine but this morning i had the grey screen even though there seemed to be a buffer of a older show. I tried recording and then stopped it and i had live tv back. Is this still a problem? I do not have cable cards installed so no HD channels, I don't want to get cards if this is a hard disk problem.


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## lstorey (Mar 17, 2005)

17blum said:


> I just hooked up a HD model and the set up went fine but this morning i had the grey screen even though there seemed to be a buffer of a older show. I tried recording and then stopped it and i had live tv back. Is this still a problem? I do not have cable cards installed so no HD channels, I don't want to get cards if this is a hard disk problem.


I don't have cable cards and still have an issue with this grey screen...still after a year. very frustrating!


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## Capmeister (Jan 20, 2005)

I find it sometimes happens to me when FiOS plays their own, local commercials. Interestingly, the quality (PQ) of these local ads is horrible.


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## MJGunn (May 10, 2002)

Has there ever been a solution to this? Just got my tivo hd from the blockbuster clearance, hooked it up, and worked fine at first. Came back an hour later, and now I have no picture coming through on live tv. Restarting the tivo right now (says it's installing a software update, hopefully installing os 11, it came with os 9 loaded), and I'll see if that fixes it.


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