# Why does the Tivo Netflix interface have to suck so bad?



## Stinkweed8 (Feb 1, 2004)

I have used many different Netflix streaming interfaces...Tivo's, Rokus, Wii's, Xbox360...and Tivo is BY FAR the most pathetic excuse for a Netflix streaming device.

I have sent a request to Tivo as a "suggestion". So i did my duty that way. Its a joke using the Tivo. There is no sorting, no % complete, no ability to add to que, no suggestions, rebuffers too often ...its horrific. 

I would love to be able to use the tivo for Netflix streaming because we prefer the ease using a single remote. I feel like a moron using an xbox controller or a wii-mote to watch a movie.

It cant be that difficult to update the UI...If Tivo expects to continue to be recognized as any kind of player in the set-top box streaming media market they certainly need to be more proactive and less of a joke in the Netflix streaming arena.


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## TrueEddie (Mar 3, 2009)

For the reasons you stated above I no longer use the TiVo for Netflix streaming. I use either my Apple TV or XBOX, both are much better.

TiVo's inability to update their software in a timely manner is the reason I no longer recommend TiVo to my friends.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Agreed. As a result, all of my TV's now have a device that can stream Netflix that is not a Tivo. All of them do a much better job. In time, Tivo will be phased out.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

TiVo makes a great DVR. They suck at everything else. It's like it's was 1 guy's side-project in his spare time but TiVo forget that he left 3 years ago.

I use either my Roku or my BD player for Netflix.



> I would love to be able to use the tivo for Netflix streaming because we prefer the ease using a single remote


That's why universal remotes exist. Logitech 880 for me.


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

I've watched several hours of netflix on my Tivo over the past few days and I don't understand what the problem is. It has worked flawlessly on my Tivo.

Yes I can't add to my queue, I can't sort my queue and I can't add to it, but none of that bothers me. I scroll down, pick the show I want to watch and it plays and it only buffers when I fast forward.

Maybe us baby boomers are easily impressed.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Stinkweed8 said:


> I have used many different Netflix streaming interfaces...Tivo's, Rokus, Wii's, Xbox360...and Tivo is BY FAR the most pathetic excuse for a Netflix streaming device.
> 
> I have sent a request to Tivo as a "suggestion". So i did my duty that way. Its a joke using the Tivo. There is no sorting, no % complete, no ability to add to que, no suggestions, rebuffers too often ...its horrific.
> 
> ...


Using the TP with a fast Internet connection i had no problem using the Netflix streaming, I however have no other way to stream Netflix so I may not know what i am missing, I never had any re-buffering except if I wanted to go back to see something i missed. If I don't finish a movie the next time i go to watch I get the resume or start from the beginning.

Does anybody know if one can turn on close captions on an english movie that has CC ?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

donnoh said:


> I've watched several hours of netflix on my Tivo over the past few days and I don't understand what the problem is. It has worked flawlessly on my Tivo.
> 
> Yes I can't add to my queue, I can't sort my queue and I can't add to it, but none of that bothers me. I scroll down, pick the show I want to watch and it plays and it only buffers when I fast forward.
> 
> Maybe us baby boomers are easily impressed.


I think people were generally happy with it until just about every other box came out with an app that was MUCH better. Considering Tivo is a subscription service and most of the other boxes are not it seems kinda backwards.


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

donnoh said:


> I've watched several hours of netflix on my Tivo over the past few days and I don't understand what the problem is. It has worked flawlessly on my Tivo.
> 
> Yes I can't add to my queue, I can't sort my queue and I can't add to it, but none of that bothers me. I scroll down, pick the show I want to watch and it plays and it only buffers when I fast forward.
> 
> Maybe us baby boomers are easily impressed.


HOW DARE YOU BE HAPPY WITH YOUR TIVO!

Don't you know that this thread (and the 14 others they've started) are to whine and complain endlessly about Netflix?

This is how you're supposed to play:
1) Don't use search and start yet another thread to complain about Netflix. Best if you hide it in the 'Help' section or cross post as often as possible.
2) Repeat tired and useless phrases like 'Netflix sux' and 'TiVo is dead' to show how cool your are.
3) Exclaim your love for Roku, AppleTV or any other device that isn't a DVR.
4) Bonus Points: Profess that you never recommend TiVo to your friends anymore.
5) Go to step 1 and repeat.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I just realized today that Roku now has three wireless HD-capable streamers starting at $60 (the last time I looked the cheapest was their no-longer-available SD-only/no-wireless player for $80). I'm tempted to buy one just for the hell of it, except that I already have 4 devices which can stream Netflix on this system (TiVo, PC, Xbox and PS3). The PS3 is my current favorite because its recently release installed player (no disc) offers support for a small set of titles with available 5.1 soundtracks and 1080p encodings (I ferreted out some of them by painstakingly sifting through the genre listings in the PS3 player).

I never use the Netflix player anymore except to check out something being discussed in some online forum.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I suspect that TiVo is trying to focus on integrating Netflix into search - not delivery by a separate app.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

So even the Premiere doesn't have better Netflix?

I'm just now starting to semi-seriously use the streaming (I have an episode of Top Gear paused at the moment).. I don't know if other implementations START UP or rewind/FF faster, but I suspect they don't (a friend mentioned the same 'see freeze frames while FFing', just like I do on my Tivos).. Not being able to even MOVE things around in the instant streaming queue is slightly annoying.. but this actually doesn't bother me too much. Heck, the netflix app on my phone (by netflix) isn't very sophisticated either. IIRC, I can't modify my queue there either.

But my main problem at the moment is one I mentioned here:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8295625#post8295625

On both my S3 & TivoHD, The IT Crowd is stretched vertically. Enough that it's not watchable. (But for example, at least the first streamable episode of S9 of Top Gear is letterboxing correctly, and the couple of episodes of Better Off Ted I watched showed up at the correct aspect ratio.)


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## Stinkweed8 (Feb 1, 2004)

TolloNodre said:


> HOW DARE YOU BE HAPPY WITH YOUR TIVO!
> 
> Don't you know that this thread (and the 14 others they've started) are to whine and complain endlessly about Netflix?
> 
> ...


Hmm. I appreciate your positive outlook on my post. In fact I did search the forums for Netflix issues and found nothing recent. I am a very satisfied TiVo user for many years. My hope in posting is not to complain, but to get the attention of any TiVo employees who read in these forums to get a clue about the sub par / mediocre software implementation of Netflix.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mattack said:


> But my main problem at the moment is one I mentioned here:
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8295625#post8295625
> 
> On both my S3 & TivoHD, The IT Crowd is stretched vertically. Enough that it's not watchable. (But for example, at least the first streamable episode of S9 of Top Gear is letterboxing correctly, and the couple of episodes of Better Off Ted I watched showed up at the correct aspect ratio.)


I find this is usually related to how you enter Netflix. If you are in zoom or full for Live TV rather than panel iirc it throws off the Netflix OAR sometimes.

I just tested this on my SD TV and it shows the correct widescreen format for the IT Crowd S01E01.

Now I have had and it seems mostly BBC shows where it seems to go back and forth. I found when I tried to watch Sanctuary some seems were correct and others were stretched in the same episode so I just marked it as unwatchable on Netflix.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stinkweed8 said:


> In fact I did search the forums for Netflix issues and found nothing recent.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

Stinkweed8 said:


> My hope in posting is not to complain, but to get the attention of any TiVo employees who read in these forums to get a clue about the sub par / mediocre software implementation of Netflix.


I suspect bradleys has hit it on the nail. Tivo's focus is on delivering an integrated home entertainment device rather than replicating the same UI available on other boxes. It may not be ready for Prime Time but I suspect TiVo's resources are focused on getting the HDUI working and that's where netflix integration will happen.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

petew said:


> I suspect TiVo's resources are focused on getting the HDUI working and that's where netflix integration will happen.


If TiVo doesn't get stability into the applications first, it won't matter what the features are - it will still suck.

My personal guess is that it will never happen on the current hardware platform. In a future Series 5 platform, we'll have the features like we get from a Roku or BluRay player. Perhaps TiVo will do something simple like license the technology/software from Roku and just build it in the new box. If Roku can make a profit on a $60 box that has significant overlap with the TiVo, then TiVo should be able to add what we need/want for $10-20.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

I thought it was just me. I have a Samsung Blu-Ray player with Netflix, a tivoHD and recently got an xbox 360. I also have high speed internet (25MB download). In the past few weeks I've noticed a lot of re-buffering with the Tivo & Netflix streaming. Last night I was attempting to watch/stream an episode of Lost on the Tivo, finally after getting about 8 minutes in (4 re-buffers), I switched over to the Xbox360 and watched the rest of the episode & 2 more without any rebuffering at all. There is definitely an issue with the implementation of Netflix streaming on the Tivo, to the point of it being useless. When a game console or a BluRay player are better (better interface, speed & ease of use) than the Tivo, I would say they need to simply fix it or get out of Netflix Streaming altogether.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ewilts said:


> My personal guess is that it will never happen on the current hardware platform. In a future Series 5 platform, we'll have the features like we get from a Roku or BluRay player.


Most of those features are already there on the Premiere and some on the S3. Some people are just too fixated on using it like a Roku instead of what TiVo is envisioning which is a converged media box. Complaining that TiVo won't add something to your queue is like complaining that your iPad won't format a floppy.


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## rjspring (Jul 16, 2008)

I was ecstatic when the netflix feature came out on Tivo, now that they have allowed the app to become stale I've moved onto other devices for streaming.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

There is a difference from a troll and valid complainers. There is value in complaining in all sorts of forums and vehicles. At least there is passion and desire and when people start walking away because they don't care anymore Tivo better start worrying.

They have been so silent lately one has to believe they are working on other products.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

nrc said:


> Most of those features are already there on the Premiere and some on the S3. Some people are just too fixated on using it like a Roku instead of what TiVo is envisioning which is a converged media box. Complaining that TiVo won't add something to your queue is like complaining that your iPad won't format a floppy.


Converging the features won't help anybody if the features aren't stable. I am happy enough adding items to my queue from my desktop but I'm not happy when the TiVo requires me to pull the power plug while I'm streaming because it's locked up solid. For TiVo to "converge" the features and allow me to find Netflix programming doesn't do me a darn bit of good if the streaming is not solid.

The feature from the Roku I want most is stability. The TiVo doesn't have it (for Netflix).


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

zalusky said:


> They have been so silent lately one has to believe they are working on other products.


Or not working at all.


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## Andyistic (Sep 25, 2009)

ewilts said:


> TiVo makes a great DVR. They suck at everything else.


They need to go back to being just a DVR, and focus all their efforts on repairing the damaged software.
Forget about adding new features until the current ones are fixed, and I mean bug-free and usable!


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## Shanezam203 (Jul 28, 2007)

I thought my issue last night was poor Wireless in my house... no? 

I eventually was able to finish my streaming movie on Netflix but twice it paused and I had to restart. Eventually it appeared to catch up & I was able to rewind and fast forward without delay. 

Why is it better on Xbox than Tivo?


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

Shanezam203 said:


> I thought my issue last night was poor Wireless in my house... no?


It's not just wireless. Many people have issues with wired connections as well. It works for a lot of people but also fails for a lot of people. My wireless Roku (now finally wired) actually worked better than my wired TiVo.

My personal opinion is that non-mobile devices should be wired, not wireless. Since your TiVo is not mobile, run a cable if at all possible.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I use my PS3 to stream NF anymore since it's 1080p/5.1 and that's the only one that does it. If I had to choose another, it'd be much Xbox 360, then Tivo last. I wouldn't use my Wii for NF since it's not HD. I don't think Tivo has much incentive to update the NF interface since everything streams NF now so they wouldn't gain customers with a better one.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

innocentfreak said:


> I find this is usually related to how you enter Netflix. If you are in zoom or full for Live TV rather than panel iirc it throws off the Netflix OAR sometimes.
> 
> I just tested this on my SD TV and it shows the correct widescreen format for the IT Crowd S01E01.


I am ALWAYS(*) in Panel mode. So you mean a 4:3 TV with that setting, right? I wonder what other things could be different.

(*) rounded up from 99.9999% of the time.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Netflix streams flawlessly via wireless fios to my TiVo. My only gripe is lacking the ability to browse the Netflix library. I add to the queue using the PC or the Xbox360. 

I have not had a streaming program interrupted in months due to buffering or quality. Not bragging, just saying it's possible with current hardware/software.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I have not gone into the Netflix app since setting up the Premier. I use TiVo search when i have a specific movie in mind. 

I have tried using the Movies collection, but it is full of blockbuster and Amazon content and it would just take me too long to find a Netflix title. It would be nice to filter by the services you are interested in. 

It is interesting that they have an "available from" collection but the Netflix selection just takes you to the Netflix app. The Amazon and Blockbuster implementations are SD, but better than the Netflix offering.

I hope they plan to update that in the future to a more integrated solution.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

I guess i dont miss what i dont have. Both of my TiVo's work flawlessly with Netflix. After about a 5 second buffer movies play and play fine all the way through allowing me to pause where ever i chose and resume where i left off. If i want to manage my queue i can lean over and do it on my laptop in a few seconds although i find no need to do so more than once a month.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Stinkweed8 said:


> ............
> In fact I did search the forums for Netflix issues and found nothing recent
> ........





ZeoTiVo said:


>


I have to echo ZeoTiVo's "sentiments". Here are search results from my first search attempt:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?searchid=6122979

In particular note the third result, which is the huge "Netflix Issues" thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413339

Search parameters:
1. Searched entire set of forums.
2. Keyword = "netflix"
3. Searched in titles only.
4. Returned threads only

The first page of search results contains 30 threads, all having posts at least as recent as 11-25-2010.

I'm continually amazed by posts where the poster apparently didn't make even a half-serious attempt to search their topic. I guess they do this because it works -- there are many "enablers" on the forum who like to answer the same questions, or make the same comments, over and over again. (Please give me a moment to don my armored suit before blasting me with your indignant replies. )


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

turbobuick86 said:


> Netflix streams flawlessly via wireless fios to my TiVo. My only gripe is lacking the ability to browse the Netflix library. I add to the queue using the PC or the Xbox360.
> 
> I have not had a streaming program interrupted in months due to buffering or quality. Not bragging, just saying it's possible with current hardware/software.


Just another comment that Netflix on our original S3's work fine as well with standard Comcast 6Mbps/2Mbps Internet service and a wired connection. We've not had any issues with buffering or quality either.

Note that although TiVo's implementation does not have the features of the other platforms it is unfair to say it sucks. For us it gets the job done and we're happy with how it works. I have seen the Xbox interface as my son has an Xbox 360 in his game room which I've associated with our account and I agree that having the ability to browse the Netflix library directly would be a nice improvement.

Scott


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

You can search through the Netflix library in a fashion (which is actually superior in a couple of ways) using TiVo Search. Bring up TiVo Search, press ENTER to get the sort and filters dialog and choose "Download Only" for source and "Free" for cost. The "superior" part is that you can set other filters with that, like "HD Only" and "Movies/Science Fiction".

You might match the occasional free thing from one of the other VOD services, but mostly everything "Download Only/Free" matches will have a Netflix stream.

This can even be done with the Series3 .


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Mike,

Nice tip! I had not seen that before.

Scott


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Until recently, my TiVoHD was my only Netflix-capable device. For the most part, I like(d) it. However, I found some programs that wouldn't play properly (lots of video stuttering and audio sync issues). My TiVo is wired to the network and my Fios connection is plenty fast. I assumed it was a Netflix issue for those particular shows.

However, with my recent acquisition of an Oppo BDP-93, I've found the same shows playback without issue via the exact same connection. To be fair, the Oppo has much better scaling/filtering capabilities than the TiVo, so I would prefer to use the Oppo any way. However, I find it troubling that the TiVo produced an unwatchable viewing experience, at least for some programs.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> Nice tip! I had not seen that before.


You're welcome. I figured that out many months ago when they integrated Netflix into searches and have posted about it in this forum a few times but not very recently.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

mikeyts said:


> You're welcome. I figured that out many months ago when they integrated Netflix into searches and have posted about it in this forum a few times but not very recently.


I'm really surprised at how many people don't realize this. TiVo either hasn't done a very good job of getting the message out or the implementation just isn't selling people.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I know. Since it's an incremental search you can even use it as a crude browser. (By "incremental search" I mean that it gives you the results after every increment of the search term that you specify, like the TiVo name search). So, if you set the filter for "Downloadable Only/Free/HD/Movies/Action-Adventure" and specify the letter "A" in the search term field, it shows you all of the HD Action-Adventure streams whose titles start with the letter "A". Clear the field (with the CLEAR remote button) and specify "B" and it will show you all of the HD Action-Adventure titles which begin with "B". And so on, and so on .

Sad that it doesn't have wildcards. If did, you could put "*" in the field and get everything that matches the filter.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

We gave up satellite for OTA. It's nice to able watch the Rose Bowl live via ESPN3 free stream on Xbox360. hint hint


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

turbobuick86 said:


> ........... It's nice to able watch the Rose Bowl live via ESPN3 free stream on Xbox360. hint hint


Do you really mean "free" stream, as in no cost? So you're not paying any subscription, membership or other fee to be able to get it? I'm just curious as I don't have an xbox360 so don't know what's usual with them.

EDIT: Think I answered my own question. A quote from the ESPN3 web site:


> To access ESPN on Xbox LIVE, you must be connected to Xbox LIVE, have downloaded the ESPN application to your hard drive or memory unit, and have a current US Xbox LIVE Gold membership.


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## hc130radio (Sep 16, 2004)

turbobuick86 said:


> We gave up satellite for OTA. It's nice to able watch the Rose Bowl live via ESPN3 free stream on Xbox360. hint hint


It would have been nicer if ESPN hadn't stolen all the BCS bowl games from ABC so we COULD watch these games on OTA HD!

...But ESPN3 is a nice touch.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

hc130radio said:


> It would have been nicer if ESPN hadn't stolen all the BCS bowl games from ABC so we COULD watch these games on OTA HD!
> 
> ...But ESPN3 is a nice touch.


ABC and ESPN are both owned by Disney. It's very obvious that more and more key sports programming is being funneled to cable stations to try and try to stave off the exodus from pay TV.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Do you really mean "free" stream, as in no cost? So you're not paying any subscription, membership or other fee to be able to get it? I'm just curious as I don't have an xbox360 so don't know what's usual with them.
> 
> EDIT: Think I answered my own question. A quote from the ESPN3 web site:


Can you not go http://espn.go.com/espn3/index and watch live sports? The reason I ask is because I'm on FiOS and I know Verizon has an agreement with ESPN also. I assumed it was free because I don't pay a subscription directly to ESPN.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

You can find information about ESPN3 on the Xbox here on the ESPN3 FAQ page. Besides being a Xbox Live Gold member located in the US, you must have network service from an ESPN affiliated provider. You can find a list of those here.

I've heard some people complain that they can't get the service because on their cable system you have to enter a password to access ESPN3.com.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> You can find information about ESPN3 on the Xbox here on the ESPN3 FAQ page. Besides being a Xbox Live Gold member located in the US, you must have network service from an ESPN affiliated provider. You can find a list of those here.
> 
> I've heard some people complain that they can't get the service because on their cable system you have to enter a password to access ESPN3.com.


Yes, I'm on Time Warner, cable and internet (which is on the ESPN3 list). I have no strong incentive to get ESPN3 because ESPN is in my cable package. Just out of curiosity, I started the registration process at ESPN3. I got to the point where they wanted my Time Warner user id and password and quit. I don't know whether they're talking about a password for my internet or for my cable, or what. I imagine I could sort it out with further effort and probably contacting them for help -- but as I said, it isn't worth it to me.

I was curious if there really was some way to get ESPN content totally free with an Xbox360 (or any other way). I think I've answered that question, i.e., no there isn't.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Yes, I'm on Time Warner, cable and internet (which is on the ESPN3 list). I have no strong incentive to get ESPN3 because ESPN is in my cable package. Just out of curiosity, I started the registration process at ESPN3. I got to the point where they wanted my Time Warner user id and password and quit. I don't know whether they're talking about a password for my internet or for my cable, or what. I imagine I could sort it out with further effort and probably contacting them for help -- but as I said, it isn't worth it to me.
> 
> I was curious if there really was some way to get ESPN content totally free with an Xbox360 (or any other way). I think I've answered that question, i.e., no there isn't.


I bet there's a link to espn3 at your t/w account page. Sign in there and you'll probably have instant access.

But I can see it's not completely free. I didn't realize I had qualified somehow because there was no effort on my part. Then again, I was naive to think Disney would give something away.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

turbobuick86 said:


> But I can see it's not completely free. I didn't realize I had qualified somehow because there was no effort on my part.


When the fall update loaded, I clicked the ESPN3 panel, it downloaded the app and it just ran. I didn't have to create an ESPN3 account (though my housemate/landlord, a total sports freak, may have. EDIT: I checked the site and it says that you only need to register if you want to access the service when you're away from home, like on your laptop when you're on a business trip, etc).

It's not totally free, but for those of us who were XBL Gold members with cable network service with one of the ESPN affiliated providers, it comes at no additional charge. You don't get ESPN on your cable or satellite service for free, so why would anyone expect to get ESPN3 for free? It's always seemed a little strange to me that they require XBLG membership for access to Netflix and now ESPN3, but I suppose it's just inducement to join.

Except for the Xbox app (and possibly others by now), ESPN3 is a website. I'm not absolutely sure, but I don't think that you can access the site from a non-ESPN-affilliated network service. It uses your network address to determine whether or not you're in the blackout zone for various live feeds.


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## Shanezam203 (Jul 28, 2007)

ewilts said:


> It's not just wireless. Many people have issues with wired connections as well. It works for a lot of people but also fails for a lot of people. My wireless Roku (now finally wired) actually worked better than my wired TiVo.
> 
> My personal opinion is that non-mobile devices should be wired, not wireless. Since your TiVo is not mobile, run a cable if at all possible.


I can run a cable to my Tivo, you suggest that over Wireless? I'll try it, do you think I'll see an improvement in my Netflix streaming & then the transfer from Tivo to my PC?

Thanks,

Shane


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

And here we are, several months later, and it still has the worst interface of them all. TiVo needs to add the ability to browse movies to stream or forget even mentioning it can play Netflix.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

From another thread on another discussion, it applies though



TiVoJerry said:


> May I suggest utilizing the link to Request Feature Enhancement?
> It helps get the word to those who listen. A volume of reports might catch their attention!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ourdoc said:


> And here we are, several months later, and it still has the worst interface of them all. TiVo needs to add the ability to browse movies to stream or forget even mentioning it can play Netflix.


It might be the worst interface but I find I keep gravitating toward my Premieres when I watch Netflix streaming since I have better quality. The TiVo has native resolution output, so I then run it through my Algolith Flea before going through my DVDO DUO scaler/video processor.

Every time I look at Netflix through my 360s, Boxee Boxes, BD players, PS3 etc, I find that I end up going back to watching the streaming from the Premiere since I can get a much better picture because of the native resolution output capability.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> From another thread on another discussion, it applies though


Been there done that since series 1.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> It might be the worst interface but I find I keep gravitating toward my Premieres when I watch Netflix streaming since I have better quality. The TiVo has native resolution output, so I then run it through my Algolith Flea before going through my DVDO DUO scaler/video processor.
> 
> Every time I look at Netflix through my 360s, Boxee Boxes, BD players, PS3 etc, I find that I end up going back to watching the streaming from the Premiere since I can get a much better picture because of the native resolution output capability.


No doubt the program itself works great. The having to go onto a computer to pre-setup what you're going to watch instead of being able to browse and pick, makes the interface "just plain suck' especially when you have several In a house who don't want to learn the Internet.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ourdoc said:


> And here we are, several months later, and it still has the worst interface of them all. TiVo needs to add the ability to browse movies to stream or forget even mentioning it can play Netflix.


What does "Browse TV and Movies" do on the Premiere?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ourdoc said:


> Been there done that since series 1.


Amazing since Netflix wasn't on the series 1. Also as the quote says it is the volume of reports. If more people did feedback on the issue if it bothered them, they might look into it.

Personally on the Premiere I just search for anything I want to watch on Netflix.



nrc said:


> What does "Browse TV and Movies" do on the Premiere?


It doesn't work in the way you would think since it doesn't let you just browse Netflix listings. Then again with Netflix having so many listings I don't know how you would browse it anyway.

IIRC Browse TV and Movies takes you to Showcases type listings.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> It doesn't work in the way you would think since it doesn't let you just browse Netflix listings. Then again with Netflix having so many listings I don't know how you would browse it anyway.
> 
> IIRC Browse TV and Movies takes you to Showcases type listings.


A motivated (python) developer could _possibly_ use pyflix and HME to make a "browsing" app. I haven't looked at what all pyflix offers, so I can't say for certain whether it's of value.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Hmm interesting. I wonder if we could get wmcbrine or jbernardis to look into it unless someone else feels like playing with it. 

I don't see myself using it but it sounds like others might.


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## tomm1079 (May 10, 2005)

turbobuick86 said:


> Netflix streams flawlessly via wireless fios to my TiVo. My only gripe is lacking the ability to browse the Netflix library. I add to the queue using the PC or the Xbox360.
> 
> I have not had a streaming program interrupted in months due to buffering or quality. Not bragging, just saying it's possible with current hardware/software.


i have never had an issue with netflix on my tivo hd's or premiers. Was doing them wireless for a while but have since switched to powerline adapters.

I would just like an updated interface and for it to tell me where i left off in a series...


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

tomm1079 said:


> I would just like an updated interface and for it to tell me where i left off in a series...


I have never had a problem with using a browser to find shows, and like how the P will also find things to watch through search.

But this is a feature that I would love, as I just tried Netflix on my wii and saw how it works. Nice.

What I do now for a series is once I'm done with an episode- I rewind a bit so that when I come back into the series I just go to the next one that does not have a prompt to "resume". It is clunky, but it works.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> A motivated (python) developer could _possibly_ use pyflix and HME to make a "browsing" app. I haven't looked at what all pyflix offers, so I can't say for certain whether it's of value.


It really is not of real value. It makes things a little shinier but still does not come up to Netflix on the Wii even. and mind you the Wii is a famously low power gaming system designed to sell cheaply and the Netflix app for the Wii is incredibly snappy.

ON the Wii you can graphically scroll around movies as if they are on a Video store display rack. It works by distinct categories geared around your use of Netflix and of course your own instant queue








You can now also do text searches which is much like search by Title on the TiVo

and if you are watching a series of shows, it tells you which have been watched - has a resume with where you left off and you can simply browse episodes. I could not find a screenshot of browsing episodes but you do get some extra options on the specific show screen that makes navigating it all a breeze


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Amazing since Netflix wasn't on the series 1. Also as the quote says it is the volume of reports. If more people did feedback on the issue if it bothered them, they might look into it.


I know that, no need for a smartass response. I have been doing feature requests since series 1, along with many other things with TiVo, not a newbie here.

The point being, no one in the software industry waits for enough people to ask before they update out of date software or interfaces. Improving them is what you pay for and what gets people to sign on. I would venture a guess that 99% of the people do not like having to pre-order "instantly watch" movies on a computer to watch on a TiVo, *especially when not all household members use a computer*. It makes it a bit difficult when they want to watch movies and say, well what's available......

Remember, as much as you might not believe it, there are many people who are clueless when it comes to computers. We all weren't born with a PDA in our hands, some of us were born long before computers, and some never caught up, but they do watch TV.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> It really is not of real value. It makes things a little shinier but still does not come up to Netflix on the Wii even. and mind you the Wii is a famously low power gaming system designed to sell cheaply and the Netflix app for the Wii is incredibly snappy.
> 
> ON the Wii you can graphically scroll around movies as if they are on a Video store display rack. It works by distinct categories geared around your use of Netflix and of course your own instant queue
> 
> ...


Right - I'm not sure how much of pyflix incorporates the Netflix APIs, or if the Netflix APIs are "PC" only. I'm thinking a "home-grown" app would/could replace the TiVo supplied app, with browsing and resuming functions. I'm moving in a few days, so looking into pyflix and Netflix APIs are pretty low on my priority (at the moment)....


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## kwajr (Dec 31, 2010)

petew said:


> I suspect bradleys has hit it on the nail. Tivo's focus is on delivering an integrated home entertainment device rather than replicating the same UI available on other boxes. It may not be ready for Prime Time but I suspect TiVo's resources are focused on getting the HDUI working and that's where netflix integration will happen.


the problem is search would require you knowing what you want to watch


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ourdoc said:


> I know that, no need for a smartass response. I have been doing feature requests since series 1, along with many other things with TiVo, not a newbie here.
> 
> The point being, no one in the software industry waits for enough people to ask before they update out of date software or interfaces. Improving them is what you pay for and what gets people to sign on. I would venture a guess that 99% of the people do not like having to pre-order "instantly watch" movies on a computer to watch on a TiVo, *especially when not all household members use a computer*. It makes it a bit difficult when they want to watch movies and say, well what's available......
> 
> Remember, as much as you might not believe it, there are many people who are clueless when it comes to computers. We all weren't born with a PDA in our hands, some of us were born long before computers, and some never caught up, but they do watch TV.


On the Premiere you don't need the app though or to go use the computer. Use the integrated search and you never touch the app. They can search for any show or movie. They can search for a star also and find what they want. This is one of the key features of the Premiere, TiVo's current platform.

Would I like TiVo to upgrade the Netflix App? Sure, but there are a ton of other things I would rather see first since on the Premiere I don't use the app. I use the univeral search.

Trust me I know about clueless people and computers. I deal with my family everyday. I can't get my parents off AOL or my younger brother who is in his early 20s.


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## kwajr (Dec 31, 2010)

bradleys said:


> I have not gone into the Netflix app since setting up the Premier. I use TiVo search when i have a specific movie in mind.
> 
> I have tried using the Movies collection, but it is full of blockbuster and Amazon content and it would just take me too long to find a Netflix title. It would be nice to filter by the services you are interested in.
> 
> ...


in the settings you can tell it not to search blockbuster or amazon


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Use the integrated search and you never touch the app. They can search for any show or movie. They can search for a star also and find what they want. This is one of the key features of the Premiere, TiVo's current platform.


I agree the universal search is pretty compelling. If they only added the ability to add a movie to the Netflix queue from the universal search app it would be much better. If I start watching an app via Universal Search I don't want to have to finish it in one sitting. I would like it to be in my queue and than I would be able to resume watching via the normal Netflix UI.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

kwajr said:


> in the settings you can tell it not to search blockbuster or amazon


You can filter for "download only", "free only"; most matches will have a Netflix stream.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> You can filter for "download only", "free only"; most matches will have a Netflix stream.


what is truly being compared here though is basically playing a role playing command line game with some graphics versus the legend of Zelda on the Wii.

I can get my family to understand to set the filter and then figure out some base point to search from

or they can go to the Wii input and scroll around in various genres and try some of the show out and drop right back to where they were in the scrolling around

which is more fun and which do you think they prefer to do?


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## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> what is truly being compared here though is basically playing a role playing command line game with some graphics versus the legend of Zelda on the Wii.
> 
> I can get my family to understand to set the filter and then figure out some base point to search from
> 
> ...


+1 - this is EXACTLY what we've done. Even bought a Bluetooth slide remote to try to make text entry easier to encourage use of search. Still, it never fails: "Wife: Let's watch a movie off Netflix!" "Me: Sure hon, let me pull up the search" "Wife: "Aww, c'mon, put it on the Wii... it's easier to browse and you get subtitles too" "Me: All right..."

She's had a MUCH more positive experience with the Hulu+ interface. We still won't continue the sub past the free 6 months as we don't think it's a good overall value since its fundamental purpose is to watch shows we already have recording... but after some initial confusion about how the menu structure worked, she loves just fooling around with it. She's said more than once (and I agree) that if you could just get Netflix to put in a Wii-style interface, or a Hulu+ style interface (which PROVES it's possible on a Premiere), it would be heavenly. Her words, not mine!


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> what is truly being compared here though is basically playing a role playing command line game with some graphics versus the legend of Zelda on the Wii.
> 
> I can get my family to understand to set the filter and then figure out some base point to search from
> 
> ...


Someone said, "in the settings you can tell it not to search blockbuster or amazon" and my response was in reference to that. He was right--you cant tell it not to search Blockbuster and Amazon, but you can tell it to only return free downloads/streams which match the other terms.

I didn't say that using TiVo Search is a _good_ solution, just a workable one.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mikeyts said:


> Someone said, "in the settings you can tell it not to search blockbuster or amazon" and my response was in reference to that. He was right--you cant tell it not to search Blockbuster and Amazon, but you can tell it to only return free downloads/streams which match the other terms.
> 
> I didn't say that using TiVo Search is a _good_ solution, just a workable one.


You can tell it to ignore Blockbuster and Amazon. It is either 100% or nothing though.

In the HDUI, under settings go to Channels, and then Video Provider List. From here you can remove what links show up in My Shows and also as a result which ones are included in the search.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> Someone said, "in the settings you can tell it not to search blockbuster or amazon" and my response was in reference to that. He was right--you cant tell it not to search Blockbuster and Amazon, but you can tell it to only return free downloads/streams which match the other terms.
> 
> I didn't say that using TiVo Search is a _good_ solution, just a workable one.


Understood - but I wanted to make the further point that while workable it was still 'command line ish' and that was the fundamental complaint people are having with the TiVo netflix experience.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

zalusky said:


> They have been so silent lately one has to believe they are working on other products.


One can hope.

I still think their biggest issue is their downright stinginess with RAM. I hacked my original Phillips and it was night and day doubling up the RAM on the thing. With all the reports on the Premieres with reboots and such it wouldn't surprise me in the lease if they were resource constrained - especially if they are using Adobe for their interface 

Sigh.. I hope the elite finally lives up to their potential. It has me holding off from dumping Comcast *and* Tivo for the moment. I finally installed my HD antenna and am getting all my local stations OTA, so it won't take me much at this point to pull the plug. I want to like Tivo, I really do, but they seem to have squandered just about all of their lead in the last five years


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

Shanezam203 said:


> Why is it better on Xbox than Tivo?


If you think the Xbox is good, you should see Netflix on the new Apple TV. It's NOTICEABLY better than Tivo, Xbox, PS3 or Wii (ha!). I don't have a Roku, but I have seen several reports from Roku owners that the ATV still looks better. You can get refurb ones for $80. I started transcoding Tivo downloads for the previous AppleTV and my iPhone (and now iPad) so most of my content is in iTunes - it's nice to be able to grab just about anything I care about from any computer, device or TV in the house!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DocNo said:


> If you think the Xbox is good, you should see Netflix on the new Apple TV. It's NOTICEABLY better than Tivo, Xbox, PS3 or Wii (ha!). I don't have a Roku, but I have seen several reports from Roku owners that the ATV still looks better. You can get refurb ones for $80. I started transcoding Tivo downloads for the previous AppleTV and my iPhone (and now iPad) so most of my content is in iTunes - it's nice to be able to grab just about anything I care about from any computer, device or TV in the house!


But the ATV is only 720P. I also have over 800 BD ISOs available on my network. Is the ATV going to play them? What about my over 10K WMA songs? There are many media players that do a better job with local content than the ATV and a few that do as good a job with online content as well.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

DocNo said:


> If you think the Xbox is good, you should see Netflix on the new Apple TV. It's NOTICEABLY better than Tivo, Xbox, PS3 or Wii (ha!).


From what I've seen of ATV2 it is almost certainly the finest Netflix GUI and it's one of the few devices capable of playing 5.1 and closed captions (for those titles which have them). The PS3 is the only device I've come across which can play the 5+ Mpbs 1080p streams. It difference between the 1080p and 720p (3.8 Mbps) streams is not always appreciably large, but I'd still rather have access to them than not. I think that Sony may have arranged some kind of exclusive on those, though, which is unlikely to last forever.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> From what I've seen of ATV2 it is almost certainly the finest Netflix GUI and it's one of the few devices capable of playing 5.1 and closed captions (for those titles which have them). The PS3 is the only device I've come across which can play the 5+ Mpbs 1080p streams. It difference between the 1080p and 720p (3.8 Mbps) streams is not always appreciably large, but I'd still rather have access to them than not. I think that Sony may have arranged some kind of exclusive on those, though, which is unlikely to last forever.


The exclusivity is the only reason that the PS3 is currently the only device with access to the 1080P encodes.
For 5.1 the Apple TV and some Pansonic devices have access to them.

At least according to this thread at AVS with a list of 5.1 titles

List of Netflix Watch Instantly Titles w/5.1 Sound


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> The exclusivity is the only reason that the PS3 is currently the only device with access to the 1080P encodes.
> For 5.1 the Apple TV and some Pansonic devices have access to them.
> 
> At least according to this thread at AVS with a list of 5.1 titles
> ...


I created and maintain that list . I've seen people refer to it in several forums and blogs, but this is the first time that I've been passed a reference to it . Possibly you didn't associate "mikeyts", my username here, with "michaeltscott", my username at AVS Forum, but my sig is (almost) the same.

The list is way overdue for an update. I used to do it every month (a process that takes a couple of hours), but the last time I started doing it, InstantWatcher.com mucked up my queue and I'm still sulking . Maybe I'll do it today--last time was 8 April, so there've probably been a boatload of 5.1 additions (they were running about 20-25% of HD titles).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Up until now I always looked at it as Michael Scott. I never even noticed the letter T in the middle


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## tomdale1 (Jul 5, 2011)

Interesting. Thanks for giving the heads up!


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## imatt (Feb 24, 2009)

For those that do not like the Netflix app on the Tivo, hree is a conversation I just had with support:



> Corina: Thank you for contacting TiVo! My name is Corina. So that I may better assist you, are you an existing customer?
> Matt: Will the Netflix application on the TivoHD be upgraded to display more than just the instant queue?
> Matt: I am an existing customer
> Corina: Hi, Matt! While we haven't yet announced a software update, we do have several potential solutions.
> ...


So what did I get out of this?
The Netflix app is the same on Premiere and TivoHD, and that if one is updated they'll both be updated.

At least there's some promise for those on the TivoHD, provide the rep wasn't simply blowing smoke.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> Right - I'm not sure how much of pyflix incorporates the Netflix APIs, or if the Netflix APIs are "PC" only. I'm thinking a "home-grown" app would/could replace the TiVo supplied app, with browsing and resuming functions. I'm moving in a few days, so looking into pyflix and Netflix APIs are pretty low on my priority (at the moment)....


Good luck with the move (or: hope your move went well)!
You should have a look at "The Instant Watch Browser for Netflix", a Roku app that provides full browsing/searching of the Netflix streaming content to Roku users. The developer, TheEndless, has been working on it since late last year, and he's solved a number of interface issues, with regard to exposing that much content in a way that doesn't overwhelm the user, as well as discovered various api quirks and other 'gotchas' that someone developing a similar app would want to know about.

You'll probably find the biggest issue is that only netflix-approved apps can initiate playback, so (if you attempt something similar for TiVo), your app could allow the user to discover content and manage their queue, but they would still need the TiVo Netflix app to actually play content.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Netflix just priced their streaming and rentals at two different prices, they now have rental only or streaming only or rental and streaming together.
IE Streaming only $7.99; 1 DVD rental and no streaming $7.99; streaming and 1 DVD rental $15.98.
So for Netflix customers that had a rental contract for DVDs and got streaming for free their price will go up on Sept 1st, if they want to keep the streaming, or go down if they want to give up the streeming.


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## thomb (Jan 22, 2008)

lessd said:


> Netflix just priced their streaming and rentals at two different prices, they now have rental only or streaming only or rental and streaming together.
> IE Streaming only $7.99; 1 DVD rental and no streaming $7.99; streaming and 1 DVD rental $15.98.
> So for Netflix customers that had a rental contract for DVDs and got streaming for free their price will go up on Sept 1st, if they want to keep the streaming, or go down if they want to give up the streeming.


I just got an email from Netflix - 
"....Your current $11.99 a month membership for unlimited streaming and unlimited DVDs (including Blu-ray access) will be split into 2 distinct plans:
Plan 1: Unlimited Streaming (no DVDs) for $7.99 a month
Plan 2: Unlimited DVDs (including Blu-ray), 1 out at-a-time (no streaming)
for $9.99 a month
Your price for getting both of these plans will be $17.98 a month..."

A 50% price hike?!? Wow! Considering that Netflix has ~20k streaming titles and has ~100k DVD titles I think there will be a lot of lost customers. Especially with the customer who is interested in a quality picture & 5.1 audio. Netflix's "HD" streaming lacks quality, quantity, and recent releases. Red Box must be jumping for joy.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

60% hike if just add 1 dvd to streaming. Corporate greed in a sucky economy.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

It's as though they're trying to marginalize the disc rental business. I was in a 2 disc plan and found that, between Watch Instantly, Vudu and Zune, I wasn't watching the discs and went streaming-only. The streaming only plan must be quite popular.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> It's as though they're trying to marginalize the disc rental business. I was in a 2 disc plan and found that, between Watch Instantly, Vudu and Zune, I wasn't watching the discs and went streaming-only. The streaming only plan must be quite popular.


This will probably end up bringing them in more money. Even if they lose 5% of their customers, which I doubt, the added money the bring in will more than cover any people who leave.

But for the people that had the one out with streaming for only $10, a 60% increase to $16 is huge.

I'm going to be dropping down to the 2 out with BD and streaming. But of course now they will have to mail me less titles out.


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## saeba (Oct 12, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> It's as though they're trying to marginalize the disc rental business. I was in a 2 disc plan and found that, between Watch Instantly, Vudu and Zune, I wasn't watching the discs and went streaming-only. The streaming only plan must be quite popular.


I find for me, it's been the reverse. I mainly watch blu-rays from netflix and cable TV for the rest. I'll be dropping the streaming as I've never found that much on Netflix. I've thought about dropping cable and going with Netflix streaming and Hulu Plus, but there's a lot we watch that's still not available on either.

It'll save me $2 on Netflix a month. Smart move on their part ;-)!


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

One thing that'll change is that now, with my streaming only plan, if I search for a title at their site and it's only available on DVD and/or BD, they display the item in a gray box with a button the "Add DVDs for only $2/month". That will have to "Add DVDs for only $8/month", which seems a lot less enticing .

Read their blog entry about the change. They say that disc rental was considered a $2 add-on to streaming and that it no longer makes financial sense to charge only $2 for it .


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

More than 5% will leave, just watch.


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## c.hack (Sep 8, 2004)

Don't care anymore about Netflix streaming:
- Price went up 60% for me
- Selection is garbage
- Hits my ISP data allowance
- Amazon streaming is free since I have Prime

I'm cancelling Netflix before the 9/1 price jump.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm one that doesn't care about the DVD-by-mail. I only want streaming, which I have found to be sorely lacking titles. IF this change helps them beef up the selection, I'm fine with it. IF it does not, I'm quitting.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

rifleman69 said:


> More than 5% will leave, just watch.


I'm sure more than 5% will either leave or reduce to just streaming or just DVD's. However to me it was obvious that $2/mo. wasn't enough to cover the (one-out) DVD service.

To those "threatening" to quit or complaining of "corporate greed" (like greed only exists in corporations ) I would just point out that Netflix subscriptions are voluntary. If you can get a better deal elsewhere you are free to do so. Perhaps the government should crack down on Netflix or nationalize them. Then we could have both high prices and poor service.

Wish I had bought their stock before it started skyrocketing. (That's personal greed in a "sucky economy" talking. )


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

I wouldn't mind the price increase if Netflix continued to offer a deep catalog of classic movies on Blu-ray.

Right now, Netflix has decided not to purchase and rent out older movies on Blu-ray. Taxi Driver, The Ten Commandments, Fantasia, Metropolis, and other great movies are available on Blu-ray, but not from Netflix. These older titles make little sense for a kiosk-based business model like Redbox, but they were a fine fit for Netflix's old disc by mail model.

My one Blu-ray at a time plan with streaming is going up to $18 per month. I don't particularly mind paying $10 per month for one Blu-ray at a time, but they need to have the titles that I want to watch. Not every great movie was made in the last two years and an awful lot of the new Blu-rays that Netflix has are mediocre to terrible. What would be the harm in offering the breadth and depth of titles that Netflix once offered when DVD was the best sound and picture quality available?

Is there any decent Netflix competitor for physical discs by mail? I probably will keep Netflix's streaming, but I'd like to jump ship for Blu-rays if only there were a worthwhile competitor.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

JimboG said:


> Right now, Netflix has decided not to purchase and rent out older movies on Blu-ray. Taxi Driver, The Ten Commandments, Fantasia, Metropolis, and other great movies are available on Blu-ray, but not from Netflix. These older titles make little sense for a kiosk-based business model like Redbox, but they were a fine fit for Netflix's old disc by mail model.
> 
> My one Blu-ray at a time plan with streaming is going up to $18 per month. I don't particularly mind paying $10 per month for one Blu-ray at a time, but they need to have the titles that I want to watch. Not every great movie was made in the last two years and an awful lot of the new Blu-rays that Netflix has are mediocre to terrible. What would be the harm in offering the breadth and depth of titles that Netflix once offered when DVD was the best sound and picture quality available?
> 
> Is there any decent Netflix competitor for physical discs by mail? I probably will keep Netflix's streaming, but I'd like to jump ship for Blu-rays if only there were a worthwhile competitor.


Is there any DVD-by-mail rental service other than Netflix and Blockbuster? Sounds as if Blockbuster might be made for you--I just checked and they have all of the older titles that you mention on Blu-ray. Their disc rental plan is a couple of bucks more expensive than Netflix' and I read a harsh criticism of it by someone who used to have it at AVS Forum, but they do have what you want on BD and there's not likely to ever be any kind of wait to get it .


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

dlfl said:


> To those "threatening" to quit or complaining of "corporate greed" (like greed only exists in corporations ) I would just point out that Netflix subscriptions are voluntary. If you can get a better deal elsewhere you are free to do so. Perhaps the government should crack down on Netflix or nationalize them. Then we could have both high prices and poor service.
> 
> Wish I had bought their stock before it started skyrocketing. (That's personal greed in a "sucky economy" talking. )


Thank you for taking the time to contribute zero. Pointing out the obvious and trying somehow to minimize our personal opinions is not a contribution to this forum. IMHO.

Edit: let me add some emoticons for brevity.   )   etc etc etc.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

I will probably dump Netflx's streaming service. The content is marginal and not worth $8 per month. The disk strategy seems a better value. I may even go Redbox supplemented by Amazon streaming for new release movies. Netflix is very close to losing me as a customer. The Apple TV netflix app is far superior to Tivo's antiquated app.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dlfl said:


> I'm sure more than 5% will either leave or reduce to just streaming or just DVD's. However to me it was obvious that $2/mo. wasn't enough to cover the (one-out) DVD service.
> 
> To those "threatening" to quit or complaining of "corporate greed" (like greed only exists in corporations ) I would just point out that Netflix subscriptions are voluntary. If you can get a better deal elsewhere you are free to do so. Perhaps the government should crack down on Netflix or nationalize them. Then we could have both high prices and poor service.
> 
> Wish I had bought their stock before it started skyrocketing. (That's personal greed in a "sucky economy" talking. )


Sure more than 5% will leave or downgrade service but I doubt more than 5% will cancel. 5% is almost 1.2 million customers.

Plus the news outlets keep focusing on the 1 out plan with streaming having a 60% increase. They fail to mention that the upper plans with BD and streaming will cost less than before.

Tonight I scheduled my plan to drop down to the 2 disc, streaming and BD plan.


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## Shanezam203 (Jul 28, 2007)

bmgoodman said:


> I'm one that doesn't care about the DVD-by-mail. I only want streaming, which I have found to be sorely lacking titles. IF this change helps them beef up the selection, I'm fine with it. IF it does not, I'm quitting.


Similar here.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

turbobuick86 said:


> Thank you for taking the time to contribute zero. Pointing out the obvious and trying somehow to minimize our personal opinions is not a contribution to this forum. IMHO.
> 
> Edit: let me add some emoticons for brevity.   )   etc etc etc.


Au contraire, if what I pointed out was already obvious, then some posters here would not be whining like injured children about Netflix'es new pricing, and they wouldn't be throwing out simplistic shallow comments about "corporate greed".

Such personal opinions (when posted for all our enjoyment) are fair game for contradiction and correction.

That was your humble opinion?


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Au contraire, if what I pointed out was already obvious, then some posters here would not be whining like injured children about Netflix'es new pricing, and they wouldn't be throwing out simplistic shallow comments about "corporate greed".
> 
> Such personal opinions (when posted for all our enjoyment) are fair game for contradiction and correction.
> 
> That was your humble opinion?


Netflix raised their rates 7 months ago. Now they want 60% more again. I call it a greedy gamble.

edit: Fair game for personal attacks? If you can't contribute anything besides name-calling.... then STFU.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

turbobuick86 said:


> Netflix raised their rates 7 months ago. Now they want 60% more again. I call it a greedy gamble.
> 
> edit: Fair game for personal attacks? If you can't contribute anything besides name-calling.... then STFU.


Some people will be paying less, not more. The upper tier plans with BD and streaming will cost less with the new pricing structure.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

turbobuick86 said:


> .......edit: Fair game for personal attacks? If you can't contribute anything besides name-calling.... then STFU.


If you believe I'm name calling or making personal attacks you should report my post(s). I have criticized only what posters say, not the posters themselves. You're just miffed because I criticized your "corporate greed" comment.

Why should I "STFU" when you won't ?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Some people will be paying less, not more. The upper tier plans with BD and streaming will cost less with the new pricing structure.


Your correct as I had a 3 out plan at $19.99, and now when I remove streaming my 3 out plan goes to $15.99, as my family only used the streaming twice in the last few months it no loss for me and a few $ savings.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

turbobuick86 said:


> Netflix raised their rates 7 months ago. Now they want 60% more again. I call it a greedy gamble.
> .........


OK we get it: Netflix is an evil "greedy" corporation.  The nerve of them trying to make a profit via voluntary transactions with consumers!


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Some people will be paying less, not more. The upper tier plans with BD and streaming will cost less with the new pricing structure.


Seriously, I'm happy for those it that benefit from multiple DVD plans.

The plan we're on went up 60%. We don't watch that many DVD's. Our 1 dvd out plan was perfect because sometimes it took 2-3 months to see it. The latest movies are stale anyway by the time Netflix releases them and upping our plan would be a complete waste of money, but we liked the option of watching a movie without waiting for it to become normal streaming fodder. The new pricing almost makes it cheaper to go to the theater for our semi-rare movie experience.

We purchase pretty heavily from Amazon, so the Prime package with free streaming is likely our next choice. I know it doesn't compare to Netflix, but based on principle, it's not a difficult choice. Redbox is always an option.

There's no contract with Netflix and if we find we can't live without them, we may come back later.... streaming only.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

Check out this article from CNET. If you live near a blockbuster it may be a better deal. The one-at-a time is more expensive than Netflix but you get 5 in-store exchanges per month. Meaning you get to watch 6 movies per month. Even if you live near a Netflix hub you're be hard pressed to get 6 movies in the one-at-time plan. Also if you rent Blueray's blockbuster does not charge extra. Netflix charge +$2 for blueray disk.

http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-20079003-285/nine-netflix-alternatives/


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

seattlewendell said:


> Check out this article from CNET. If you live near a blockbuster it may be a better deal. The one-at-a time is more expensive than Netflix but you get 5 in-store exchanges per month. Meaning you get to watch 6 movies per month. Even if you live near a Netflix hub you're be hard pressed to get 6 movies in the one-at-time plan. Also if you rent Blueray's blockbuster does not charge extra. Netflix charge +$2 for blueray disk.
> 
> http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-20079003-285/nine-netflix-alternatives/


where do you get this "6 movies per month" because of exchanges, number? You have to have an envelope to exchange for instore, for one thing....

I can get 14-16 discs per month from Netflix, plus unlimited streaming, on a two disc plan. So, 7-8 discs on one disc plan. Plus streaming, again. Blockbuster can't do that for me.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

seattlewendell said:


> Even if you live near a Netflix hub you're be hard pressed to get 6 movies in the one-at-time plan.


Not hard pressed at all. We do live near a hub and usually they get the disc the day after we mail it, and we receive the new disc the day after that. We easily get two discs per week on the one-out-at-a-time plan. So that averages 8+/month (8.67 per month )


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

b_scott said:


> where do you get this "6 movies per month" because of exchanges, number? You have to have an envelope to exchange for instore, for one thing....
> 
> I can get 14-16 discs per month from Netflix, plus unlimited streaming, on a two disc plan. So, 7-8 discs on one disc plan. Plus streaming, again. Blockbuster can't do that for me.


Well I guess your milage my vary. I can't get more than 6 disk per month not even if I return the disk at the post office.
As for Blockbuster, you get five exchanges per month on any plan. If take advantage of of all 5 exchanges that is 6 movies. I know, I have done it. Just bring in the movie you are done with and they look up your information to see if you are a subscriber.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

seattlewendell said:


> Well I guess your milage my vary. I can't get more than 6 disk per month not even if I return the disk at the post office.
> As for Blockbuster, you get five exchanges per month on any plan. If take advantage of of all 5 exchanges that is 6 movies. I know, I have done it. Just bring in the movie you are done with and they look up your information to see if you are a subscriber.


For the last two months, as long as I exchanged two movies together, it only counted against one of my exchanges. The people at the store had no idea why that was happening. I only know that it's been that way for a couple of months.

Now today my Blockbuster account shows I get 99 exchanges per month. I don't know why it says that.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Remember you have until the day before the billing cycle starts to change your plan.

So if you want to spend a max of $10/month on netflix just decide if the next cycle is streaming-only, DVD-only, or hiatus.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I see the reason my account shows 99 in store exhcnages is because Blockbuster has gone back to unlimited in store exchanges. So that can be an option for people that want current releases. 95% of the titles in my Blockbuster queue are not available at the Brick and Mortar stores.


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## Shanezam203 (Jul 28, 2007)

ncbill said:


> Remember you have until the day before the billing cycle starts to change your plan.
> 
> So if you want to spend a max of $10/month on netflix just decide if the next cycle is streaming-only, DVD-only, or hiatus.


I'm ok doing streaming only for $8.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

seattlewendell said:


> Well I guess your milage my vary. I can't get more than 6 disk per month not even if I return the disk at the post office.
> As for Blockbuster, you get five exchanges per month on any plan. If take advantage of of all 5 exchanges that is 6 movies. I know, I have done it. Just bring in the movie you are done with and they look up your information to see if you are a subscriber.


if you use all 5 exchanges you need 5 envelopes for those to exchange with, which is 10 movies..... so I don't follow.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

b_scott said:


> if you use all 5 exchanges you need 5 envelopes for those to exchange with, which is 10 movies..... so I don't follow.


It's unlimited exchanges now. Well 99 per month but there is no way to come close to that many titles in the mail since BB is much slower than Netflix at delivering the discs.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

b_scott said:


> if you use all 5 exchanges you need 5 envelopes for those to exchange with, which is 10 movies..... so I don't follow.


You don't need any envelopes. Follow these instructions:
1-Watch the movie you received in the mail.
2-Take that movie to your local Blockbuster
3-Exchange the movie for a new movie. Zero cost, zero envelopes required.
4-Watch said movie.
5-Repeat steps 3 and 4, several more times per month. Up to five!


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

seattlewendell said:


> You don't need any envelopes. Follow these instructions:
> 1-Watch the movie you received in the mail.
> 2-Take that movie to your local Blockbuster


What's this mythical "local" Blockbuster you speak of?? 

They closed all the ones in western Virginia. Looks like there are still about 40 left in Virginia all in northern and eastern Virginia.

I did notice a Blockbuster kiosk at a local Food Lion if that counts!

Scott


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> What's this mythical "local" Blockbuster you speak of??
> 
> They closed all the ones in western Virginia. Looks like there are still about 40 left in Virginia all in northern and eastern Virginia.
> 
> ...


The Blockbuster kiosks are operated under license by NCR (formerly National Cash Register, once a division of AT&T long, long ago). The Blockbuster kiosks sort of compete with Redbox kiosks. Redbox is owned by Coinstar, a company that operates those "turn in your loose change, get paper money" kiosks.

The kiosk businesses are pretty convenient, but they don't qualify for Blockbuster's deal to return a disk at a local brick and mortar store. The kiosks are great for getting current big movies with no monthly fee.

Curiously, the biggest flaw with Redbox's current machines is that there is no dedicated slot to return a movie. This means that you could be stuck in line for twenty minutes waiting to return a movie while some idiots in front of you take their sweet time trying to decide whether to rent Big Momma's House: Like Father, Like Son or to rent Justin Bieber: Never Say Never.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

seattlewendell said:


> You don't need any envelopes. Follow these instructions:
> 1-Watch the movie you received in the mail.
> 2-Take that movie to your local Blockbuster
> 3-Exchange the movie for a new movie. Zero cost, zero envelopes required.
> ...


Ah. It didn't used to be that way. Of course when I had BB Online it was always unlimited exchanges, plus an extra 2 coupons a month I think.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

HomieG said:


> Not hard pressed at all. We do live near a hub and usually they get the disc the day after we mail it, and we receive the new disc the day after that. We easily get two discs per week on the one-out-at-a-time plan. So that averages 8+/month (8.67 per month )


Same here.
M - I drop movie in mailbox.
T - Netflix gets movie and mails the next in my queue.
W - I get movie. Watch movie.
R - I drop movie in mailbox.
F - Netflix gets movie and mails the next in my queue.
S - I get movie. Watch movie.
Repeat.

So usually two a week with the 1-out-at-a-time-plan for me, too, if I am home, etc. I'm dropping streaming. Not worth the $ unless it starts getting lots more new releases.

[edit] Of course, my avg drops below 2/week because of Federal mail holidays. Shrug.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

seattlewendell said:


> You don't need any envelopes. Follow these instructions:
> 1-Watch the movie you received in the mail.
> 2-Take that movie to your local Blockbuster
> 3-Exchange the movie for a new movie. Zero cost, zero envelopes required.
> ...


Blockbuster has unlimited exchanges again. They are trying to capitalize on peoples reaction to the Netflix price increase.

Also, Netflix is down again on Boxee boxes, PS3s and 360s(at least on the east coast). But it's still working great on my TiVos. This has been the case in the past as well when there have been problems from the other Netflix devices. 
So while the Netflix interface isn't as new, it's certainly been more reliable than the other devices with Netflix.


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## Stinkweed8 (Feb 1, 2004)

I just bought a premier for a new Christmas TV. I thought, great...now i dont have to use my Wii to watch netflix...right...WRONG. The Premier streaming is embarrassingly bad. Every 5 minutes it is "retrieving" or buffering and makes the service unusable. During an Arrested Development episode it started and stopped 3 times in 10 minutes so I switched to my Roku player (both are using wifi connection to COX premier broadband). The Roku worked without interruption of "retrieving".

Back to my original topic. How is it possible that Tivo has not updated this software for Netflix. Its absolutely ridiculous to me that a device that is touted to be THE ONE box doesn't have functionality of interface or of actual usabilty of even a wii box. Streaming is fine on the Wii, iPad, Iphone, Roku all from the same location via wifi. 

I bought this premier (and lifetimed it) and am an 8 year Tivo user. I wonder what the heck the employees of Tivo are doing in those offices and why they cant manage to hire some software coders to roll out an update. The Tivo should be the BEST device to stream Netflix...not bar none the worst...not to mention the fact that it doesnt even attempt to stream Amazon Prime Instant videos (while Amazon downloads was an extremely early adopter of Tivo).

This thread still has legs...If any Tivo employees still read this stuff...you should be embarrassed at the poor quality of this service. I have called and complained and went through the proper channels with this ... nothing has changed.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

Don't feel bad, many of us think the same thing. Hell even the software on a free DVD player that came with a new TV purchase has a better interface for Netflix that allows you to find movies and then watch them without having to set them up first on your computer. 

As far as streaming the actual show sounds like your TiVo has a network issue as mine all stream the actual movie fine, its just no real way to browse what is available and then watch on TiVo. At this point, I just use the software built into the TV, its better than TiVo also.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ourdoc said:


> Don't feel bad, many of us think the same thing. Hell even the software on a free DVD player that came with a new TV purchase has a better interface for Netflix that allows you to find movies and then watch them without having to set them up first on your computer.


You don't have set them up on your computer. Just use TiVo Search.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

nrc said:


> You don't have set them up on your computer. Just use TiVo Search.


I'm talking browse to see what is available, not search for a specific movie. Almost all other interfaces now allow you to browse what is available and find something you might like, all but TiVo. Search is not the same thing as browse.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ourdoc said:


> I'm talking browse to see what is available, not search for a specific movie. Almost all other interfaces now allow you to browse what is available and find something you might like, all but TiVo. Search is not the same thing as browse.


You can use TiVo search to browse the Netflix streaming library in a clumsy fashion. Select it, press ENTER to get the search options, set "Source" to "Available to Download Only" and "Cost" to "Free Only" and any other options you want, like "HD/Movies/Science Fiction" (although as I try it now, the "HD Only" filter is not working with that option combo; it has in the past). Go to the search field and enter "A" and it will show you all of the titles which match your filters which begin with the letter "A", almost all of which will have Netflix streams. Hit CLEAR and enter "B", rinse, repeat . Unfortunately they do not implement a wildcard search term--it'd be a decent browser if they did.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

Why do all that when I can use others that are not "clumsy"? Point being TiVo needs to update it to come in line with the rest of the world out there. When I have a better interface on my cell phone to watch movies from netflix than I do on my TiVo it tells me TiVo is the one lacking in keeping up with the times. I have been with TiVo since day one and have purchased over 10 TiVo's, and at this point unless they improver their software and turn on all their hardware I won't be buying another one.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ourdoc said:


> Why do all that when I can use others that are not "clumsy"? Point being TiVo needs to update it to come in line with the rest of the world out there. When I have a better interface on my cell phone to watch movies from netflix than I do on my TiVo it tells me TiVo is the one lacking in keeping up with the times. I have been with TiVo since day one and have purchased over 10 TiVo's, and at this point unless they improver their software and turn on all their hardware I won't be buying another one.


Well, you can piss and moan about what TiVo _should_ have, you can use what TiVo _does_ have, or you can use some other device to watch Netflix. I use my TiVo for watching live and recorded TV, period, having several other devices which do all of its ancillary network stuff much better than it does.

Admittedly, the "clumsy browse" is weak--you can't add titles to your IQ from TiVo, for instance. But it's all that you have right now. TiVo has stated that they're going to introduce a new interface to Netflix but it'll be delivered on their schedule. People have been complaining about TiVo's Netflix player in these forums for years, so they know how we feel.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> Well, you can piss and moan about what TiVo _should_ have, you can use what TiVo _does_ have, or you can use some other device to watch Netflix. I use my TiVo for watching live and recorded TV, period, having several other devices which do all of its ancillary network stuff much better than it does.
> 
> Admittedly, the "clumsy browse" is weak--you can't add titles to your IQ from TiVo, for instance. But it's all that you have right now. TiVo has stated that they're going to introduce a new interface to Netflix but it'll be delivered on their schedule. People have been complaining about TiVo's Netflix player in these forums for years, so they know how we feel.


As far as pissing and moaning, you can KMA, I have been pushing for advancement not pissing and moaning as you claim (besides personal attacks like that violate forum rules). I have several devices that do all the jobs except season passes and sharing with my other TiVo's better than TiVo and do use them, I never watch netflix through TiVo anymore...

As far as "People have been complaining about TiVo's Netflix player in these forums for years, so they know how we feel."

This is what costs customers and what has severely diminished TiVo's viability, they had it in the bag at first, but slow updating cost customers. Any company who makes computers (which TiVo is) that fails to constantly update and improve their software in a timely fashion, end up going away. My having bought so many and saying no more is a result of this very problem, and I'm not the only one.

If you can't understand that, you must never have run a business.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

donnoh said:


> I've watched several hours of netflix on my Tivo over the past few days and I don't understand what the problem is. It has worked flawlessly on my Tivo.
> 
> Yes I can't add to my queue, I can't sort my queue and I can't add to it, but none of that bothers me. I scroll down, pick the show I want to watch and it plays and it only buffers when I fast forward.
> 
> Maybe us baby boomers are easily impressed.


You sound just like the guys that say their DVR is just as good as tivo but have not seen what can be done. Tivo Netfix is great until you see what everyone else is doing. Walking was fine until someone started to ride a horse. If walking was all that fine we would not have cars or airplanes.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

There was a time when Tivo was something to show off in my house. It was awesome to have people come over and they see a Tivo for the very first time. I don't EVER show it off anymore. Every time I do I end up with some sort of an error and it's awkward and embarrassing. If I showed anyone the Netflix interface they would laugh at hoe bad it is. It's better on EVERY other device that offers it.......and those devices don't charge you a subscription to use it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

johnd01 said:


> You sound just like the guys that say their DVR is just as good as tivo but have not seen what can be done. Tivo Netfix is great until you see what everyone else is doing. Walking was fine until someone started to ride a horse. If walking was all that fine we would not have cars or airplanes.


The other interfaces are certainly better, but for just watching the streaming titles, I like TiVo better because of the navigation features.
Of course for me I very rarely search for titles through a Netflix interface on a device. So the older TiVo Netflix app is not an issue for me. I typically add to my streaming queue and do my searches online. But if I do want to search using a more up to date Netflix interface, I have no shortage of other devices with Netflix to use.

No one device is great at everything. You will always need to have multiple devices if you want to have the best features.

One day TiVo will update their Netflix application. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.


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## Stinkweed8 (Feb 1, 2004)

We get berated on these forums consistently for asking Tivo to DO SOMETHING about the crappy interface...search is certainly a necessity, but what about just providing the information on how much of and which programs have been watched on Netflix. Shall I keep a pad and paper handy to remind myself of which episode of Sons of Anarchy I am on. Its ludicrous. 

I find it ridiculous on these forums when people complain when old time and die hard Tivo users critique certain features which are in need of serious fixing. Users make fools of themselves with blinded fanboyism and complacency. Tivo touts the useability and feature rich product they provide...yet they are so slow to rollout any kind of feature improvements...

I just bought a premier and lifetimed it...im not going anywhere soon. I just would like to see innovation and improvements and it is lacking... Get on the ball Tivo...


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ourdoc said:


> I'm talking browse to see what is available, not search for a specific movie. Almost all other interfaces now allow you to browse what is available and find something you might like, all but TiVo. Search is not the same thing as browse.


Does TiVo's "Browse TV and Movies" feature not do what you want?

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getthemostoutoftv/browse-for-shows.html


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

nrc said:


> Does TiVo's "Browse TV and Movies" feature not do what you want?
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getthemostoutoftv/browse-for-shows.html


No. It doesn't. This is a very convoluted way of doing something that EVERY Netflix enabled device does better. Plus, I don't think this is an option for those of us that have to use the SD menus.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Stinkweed8 said:


> We get berated on these forums consistently for asking Tivo to DO SOMETHING about the crappy interface...search is certainly a necessity, but what about just providing the information on how much of and which programs have been watched on Netflix. Shall I keep a pad and paper handy to remind myself of which episode of Sons of Anarchy I am on. Its ludicrous.
> 
> I find it ridiculous on these forums when people complain when old time and die hard Tivo users critique certain features which are in need of serious fixing. Users make fools of themselves with blinded fanboyism and complacency. Tivo touts the useability and feature rich product they provide...yet they are so slow to rollout any kind of feature improvements...
> 
> I just bought a premier and lifetimed it...im not going anywhere soon. I just would like to see innovation and improvements and it is lacking... Get on the ball Tivo...


No but you could use something like trakt.tv to track what episodes you have seen.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ourdoc said:


> As far as pissing and moaning, you can KMA, I have been pushing for advancement not pissing and moaning as you claim (besides personal attacks like that violate forum rules).


I've been participating in these forums for seven years (longer--my original account got wiped by accident) and I'm aware of the rules by now. "Pissing and moaning" was not intended as a "personal attack"--I wouldn't have taken offense at it and I did not anticipate that you would. I probably should have just said "you can complain about it"; I apologize. It's just that I've read 50 million complaints about the Netflix interface, including its lack of search, in this and other threads and I am very sure that TiVo is fully aware of all of its shortcomings. I'd be shocked if many of their lead engineers and designers aren't using superior devices to view Netflix streams at home. Further complaining about it is a pure waste of time--my opinion, not an attack on you. Of course, you have a perfect right to post complaints and I'm not trying to stop you.

Note that TiVo has confirmed that they're working on a new 1080p-capable Netflix player. No information has been given as to when to expect it or whether some version of it will come to the Series3 models (which obviously can't display 1080p).

I'd mistaken your post to imply that you're using TiVo to view Netflix and were looking for a solution to search; excuse my attempt to offer an interim solution.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Stinkweed8 said:


> I just bought a premier for a new Christmas TV. I thought, great...now i dont have to use my Wii to watch netflix...right...WRONG. The Premier streaming is embarrassingly bad. Every 5 minutes it is "retrieving" or buffering and makes the service unusable. During an Arrested Development episode it started and stopped 3 times in 10 minutes so I switched to my Roku player (both are using wifi connection to COX premier broadband). The Roku worked without interruption of "retrieving".
> 
> ......


I watched seven hours of Netflix streaming over the last couple of days on a two tuner Premiere at my GFs and on an Elite at home. Only HD content(well it's not going to stream in HD at my GFs, it always showed five out of ten bars). Three hours at my GFs house on her 1.25Mbps DSL and the other four hours on my FiOS connection at home. At no time on either box did I get any buffering or any A/V sync issues. The whole experience was flawless. Even with the older user interface the Netflix streaming plays back with the least issues for me from my TiVo devices. It's always been down at some point on Roku, the Boxee Box, PS3, or Xbox 360.

So it will be nice if they offer 1080P and 5.1 audio on the Premiere for Netflix Streaming sometime soon. Then I can use my Premieres for more Netflix content.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Stinkweed8 said:


> I just bought a premier for a new Christmas TV. I thought, great...now i dont have to use my Wii to watch netflix...right...WRONG. The Premier streaming is embarrassingly bad. Every 5 minutes it is "retrieving" or buffering and makes the service unusable. During an Arrested Development episode it started and stopped 3 times in 10 minutes so I switched to my Roku player (both are using wifi connection to COX premier broadband). The Roku worked without interruption of "retrieving".
> 
> Back to my original topic. How is it possible that Tivo has not updated this software for Netflix. Its absolutely ridiculous to me that a device that is touted to be THE ONE box doesn't have functionality of interface or of actual usabilty of even a wii box. Streaming is fine on the Wii, iPad, Iphone, Roku all from the same location via wifi.


1) The Tivo will stream Netflix just fine without buffering. If it's not, it's your network not the Tivo. I never, ever have buffering and I stream in full HD.

2) Yeah, the interface SUCKS. They need to update it ASAP.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

b_scott said:


> 1) The Tivo will stream Netflix just fine without buffering. If it's not, it's your network not the Tivo. I never, ever have buffering and I stream in full HD.


Uh, re-buffering is always caused by delays in receiving the content (marginal available bandwidth, servers too overloaded to keep up, whatever). The point is that things have to pretty much come to an absolute standstill for it to happen with the newer players featuring adaptive bit rate tech. If the rate of content reception drops, it will seamlessly drop down to lower bit rate version of the stream and back to higher quality when things improve. TiVo can only pause and rebuffer at a lower rate and cannot go back to the higher quality stream that it started with.


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## bensonr2 (Feb 4, 2011)

I love reading the Netflix complaint threads (of which I sometimes enjoy chiming in myself).

I always get a laugh out of the Tivo defenders in these threads. Look I really enjoy my Tivo after only a year of use. But the Netflix and Amazon implementations are indefensible. 

The people that rush to defend Tivo on this almost sound like battered spouses in denial.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bensonr2 said:


> I always get a laugh out of the Tivo defenders in these threads. Look I really enjoy my Tivo after only a year of use. But the Netflix and Amazon implementations are indefensible.
> 
> The people that rush to defend Tivo on this almost sound like battered spouses in denial.


I get a laugh out people who think that everyone should use a product the same way that they do. I understand the complaints of Netfllix users who don't want to use TiVo Search. But for the way I use TiVo with Amazon it works flawlessly.

My opinion is that TiVo needs to focus on their one view for aggregated content and make that work better for browsing as well as searching instead of breaking out content into separate apps.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

nrc said:


> I get a laugh out people who think that everyone should use a product the same way that they do. I understand the complaints of Netfllix users who don't want to use TiVo Search. But for the way I use TiVo with Amazon it works flawlessly.


The problem is that Tivo has a VERY different interface than EVERY other Netflix device. It made sense in the beginning but the interface is now pretty standardized across devices. While the standardized interface has been greatly improved the Tivo/Netflix interface has not. Considering, we pay Tivo for the privilege of using Netflix, it should be BETTER than other devices, not worse.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

aadam101 said:


> The problem is that Tivo has a VERY different interface than EVERY other Netflix device. It made sense in the beginning but the interface is now pretty standardized across devices.


I agree that TiVo needs to continue improving their interface. But other devices don't aggregate content across multiple devices the way TiVo does so their interface isn't necessarily relevant to TiVo.

Many of the complaints that people have are based on the fact that they want to browse only Netflix content. The Premiere already has way to browse content. They just need to make it easier to filter by content providers so that the Netflix folks can see only what they want.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> The problem is that Tivo has a VERY different interface than EVERY other Netflix device. It made sense in the beginning but the interface is now pretty standardized across devices. While the standardized interface has been greatly improved the Tivo/Netflix interface has not. Considering, we pay Tivo for the privilege of using Netflix, it should be BETTER than other devices, not worse.


We pay TiVo for the DVR functionality and guide data. Netflix is an extra service they offer to increase the value.

Just like on the 360. Those are just extra services you get with your Xbox Live subscription that increase it's value.
On both devices I pay the subscription for the core services. Having Netflix and other apps is just icing on the cake.

I would be paying for those subscriptions whether Netflix, Hulu+, Pandora, was available or not. Although by them being offered it's just a bunch of other devices I have available to use with these services, but those devices are certainly not necessary to access them


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> Uh, re-buffering is always caused by delays in receiving the content (marginal available bandwidth, servers too overloaded to keep up, whatever). The point is that things have to pretty much come to an absolute standstill for it to happen with the newer players featuring adaptive bit rate tech. If the rate of content reception drops, it will seamlessly drop down to lower bit rate version of the stream and back to higher quality when things improve. TiVo can only pause and rebuffer at a lower rate and cannot go back to the higher quality stream that it started with.


True, it doesn't adapt to bad connections well. But the problem with speed/quality is with your service provider, not Tivo. When given a stable solid connection, Tivo works just fine. I'm running Comcast 20/3 and never have buffering.

It's not the best player for Netflix, I'll give you that.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> We pay TiVo for the DVR functionality and guide data. Netflix is an extra service they offer to increase the value.


Not according to Tivo. See post #117 in this thread. The Tivo Service Agreement is very clear that usage of the Netflix app is part of the Tivo service.

"* TiVo service features such as* music, photos and Multi-Room Viewing (see Section 3.3.1 below), access to PC-Based Media (see Section 3.3.2 below)), TiVoToGo feature (see Section 3.3.3 below), and *third party download or streaming services*."

If Tivo decided to call these services "extras" maybe I could see your point. They didn't choose to call them "extras." They made the decision to make them part of the service that you pay for.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> Not according to Tivo. See post #117 in this thread. The Tivo Service Agreement is very clear that usage of the Netflix app is part of the Tivo service.
> 
> "* TiVo service features such as* music, photos and Multi-Room Viewing (see Section 3.3.1 below), access to PC-Based Media (see Section 3.3.2 below)), TiVoToGo feature (see Section 3.3.3 below), and *third party download or streaming services*."
> 
> If Tivo decided to call these services "extras" maybe I could see your point. They didn't choose to call them "extras." They made the decision to make them part of the service that you pay for.


Either way they were added to my TiVos without me having to pay extra for them. Aside from the Netflix interface on the TiVo, it has always been pretty much flawless for playback on my S3 and S4 boxes.

the main reason I want the TiVo Netflix App updated is to have 1080P and 5.1 content. Since my TiVos are the best netflix devices(out of 20+) for actually playing back the streaming content, I would prefer to use the TiVo for it all the time. But rightnow I use my Roku 2 for 1080P/5.1 titles and use my TiVos and Boxee Boxes for the 720P content.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Either way they were added to my TiVos without me having to pay extra for them. Aside from the Netflix interface on the TiVo, it has always been pretty much flawless for playback on my S3 and S4 boxes.
> 
> the main reason I want the TiVo Netflix App updated is to have 1080P and 5.1 content. Since my TiVos are the best netflix devices(out of 20+) for actually playing back the streaming content, I would prefer to use the TiVo for it all the time. But rightnow I use my Roku 2 for 1080P/5.1 titles and use my TiVos and Boxee Boxes for the 720P content.


I agree with you on the playback. Even when I was having network problems (I could barely transfer between two Tivo's) Netflix worked flawlessly all the time.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

b_scott said:


> True, it doesn't adapt to bad connections well. But the problem with speed/quality is with your service provider, not Tivo.


The problem is never TiVo, but it might not be your service provider either. I've seen times when I could download a file at the full rated speed of my service but not get enough bandwidth on a connection to Netflix's servers to get the highest bit rate encodings. And really, it's not a matter of bandwidth, but of the rate at which streamed content is delivered. If Netflix's servers are poorly load balanced or overwhelmed by the number of connections they're serving they might temporarily be unable keep up with demand.


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## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

donnoh said:


> I've watched several hours of netflix on my Tivo over the past few days and I don't understand what the problem is. It has worked flawlessly on my Tivo.
> 
> Yes I can't add to my queue, I can't sort my queue and I can't add to it, but none of that bothers me. I scroll down, pick the show I want to watch and it plays and it only buffers when I fast forward.
> 
> Maybe us baby boomers are easily impressed.


I have to agree....while I can't add to my queue, and that is somewhat annoying........the interface on PS3 or Wii isn't much better in it's own way.

Too busy, to much going on. I almost always watch NetFlix on TiVo.

I would much prefer different queues for different members of the household.


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## Lensman (Dec 22, 2001)

So the current tack by Tivo seems to be to develop Netflix as an integrated aspect of the Tivo itself and to develop a Netflix interface as a custom "application" within their platform - and I don't even think it's actually a separate application, but rather just a set of screens within the Tivo UI itself.

Many other devices with Netflix capability are delivering applications built by Netflix developers onto the device platform. I don't think this is the strategy used to deliver Netflix functionality onto the Tivo platform.

The tradeoff might be:
1. If Tivo committed to provide a stable platform onto which Netflix could deliver their Webkit-based application, we might get a better/more native Netflix experience.
2. If Tivo continues with their current strategy, there is potential for a more integrated experience.

What would make me happy would be for Tivo to cede the Netflix application to Netflix and provide the standard platform for Netflix developers to develop their custom application. Tivo developers could still provide Tivo-integrated functionality like search by independently making the necessary Netflix web services calls. What's unclear is whether it would be possible for the Tivo-developed UI to be able to "call" the Netflix app to play Netflix videos that are found through Tivo search or whether Tivo would have to implement a separate Netflix player.

Note: Since I'm neither a Tivo developer nor a Netflix developer, the above is pure speculation based on Netflix technical presentations I've seen and my guesses about how the Tivo software is designed.


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## mdm08033 (Apr 23, 2007)

dirk1843 said:


> I would much prefer different queues for different members of the household.


On that note it would be nice if the Kidz Zone extended to a queue of titles that I have deemed approriate for my seven and nine year old children. I sure that that level of application coordination is beyond the scope of the developers at TiVo and Netflix, but one can dream.

Cheers.


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## mishafp (Nov 8, 2006)

Lensman said:


> So the current tack by Tivo seems to be to develop Netflix as an integrated aspect of the Tivo itself and to develop a Netflix interface as a custom "application" within their platform - and I don't even think it's actually a separate application, but rather just a set of screens within the Tivo UI itself.
> 
> Many other devices with Netflix capability are delivering applications built by Netflix developers onto the device platform. I don't think this is the strategy used to deliver Netflix functionality onto the Tivo platform.
> 
> ...


This is probably unrealistic, but I would love it if TIVO would come up with a way to add Neflix individual programs you really wanted to watch to the Now Playing List (like happens when you download amazon content). As is, I just launch any Netflix programs I am interested in using my ipad/iphone app, which works just fine. Turning on my PS3 to get netflix seems ridiculous in comparison.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

It seems the bean counters who run Tivo were taught in B-school that if you do one thing well, add on some crap that works poorly. Especially, if you can get paid by Netflix, Amazon, Blockbuster, Hulu and the rest to do it. Customers be damned. Sorry, I agree with what others have said about Netflix on Tivo. I saw a special offer for a Roku. It does one thing and does it well (just like Tivo used to). I don't want a Swiss Army Box.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

b_scott said:


> True, it doesn't adapt to bad connections well. But the problem with speed/quality is with your service provider, not Tivo. When given a stable solid connection, Tivo works just fine. I'm running Comcast 20/3 and never have buffering.
> 
> It's not the best player for Netflix, I'll give you that.


I haven't had any buffering issues here either (primarily HD content) with Comcast 6/2 (Yes, we're a small town that hasn't even been upgraded yet but it's coming as they just converted almost all of the analog channels to digital).

Scott


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## gergrengats (Apr 4, 2012)

I have contacted customer support both on the phone and via the tivo site to request that they fix my streaming problems and they get hostile. They tell me that the problem is my environment. I tell that I have troubleshot my environment and found the tivo to be the only device that will not stream video reliably. This includes netflix, hulu and even some videos from the web. I have a xbox and roku that have never had the buffering problems but the tivo does. I even have the tivo's hard wired direct to the router with priority set by the router. What the problem reminds me of is a windows pc when the cpu is so busy looking for something it has no time to service anything. Thus it hangs and won't do what you ask it to.


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## ourdoc (Jul 25, 2002)

I wonder, did they ever turn on the second core?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It was enabled a while ago. I think 14.9 enabled the second core. Not sure of the version number though.


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## nexter (Aug 25, 2010)

The new netflix interface is finally arriving with the new update this month (possibly this month according to tivodesign twitter)


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