# Can YOU Make Your TiVo better?



## barto712 (Oct 27, 2007)

We are a group of Grad students currently undertaking the endeavor of changing the way TiVo works. We have to come up with a way to innovate and change the TiVo experience. We are to grow the company and expand TiVo's potential future growth. We have a couple of ideas and would like to hear some feedback from devoted TiVo users. A few our ideas are as a follows

A TiVo TV with the TiVo technology already embedded in it. A partnership with TV makers would be a necessity. 

TiVo Packages such as ESPN, Home and Garden, or Disney for Kids

TiVo Showroom, stand alone store or sections in retail stores like Best Buy or Circuit City 

TiVo media room- i.e. couch with remote and controls in arm rest, surround sound built in

Free Trial Period for a month to encourage people to sign up to the services 

Eliminate Standard Definition boxes, only produce HD

TiVo like IPOD 

Partner with more cable companies to offer TiVo technology akin to the deal with Comcast

Branch off into TiVo home dinners- Called "TiVo Dinners" that offer consumers on the go an affordable and quick meal before they settle in for the TiVo experience

TiVo Energy Drink- Stay up later to watch your TV

Please let us know if any of these suggestions would be ideal to current TiVo users. Also if any of you TiVo consumers have suggestions of your own it would be greatly appreciated if you pass those along to us as we would like to produce the best outcome in trying to enhance the TiVo experience with the consumer in mind. 

Thank you, 

Northeastern University Grad Students


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## Lazlo123 (Nov 7, 2006)

none appeal to me, but that's just me..


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## montz (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm all about innovating an already excellent product, but honestly, some of those suggestions are not realistic.
TiVo TV - not gonna happen, would people buy a TV that was locked to Comcast because it came with a Comcast DVR?
TiVo Packages - this may be a good idea
TiVo Showroom - I agree that TiVo is under-emphasized in stores
TiVo Media Room - wha?
Free Trial Period - This would be a heavy initial cost to TiVo, but may prove to be worth it
Eliminate SD boxes - I agree that it's time for everyone to upgrade, but not everyone agrees and you can't bail on a customer base because the technology changes
TiVo-like iPod - what do you mean? transferring TV to the iPod, or watching TV on an iPod
TiVo Dinners and TiVo Energy Drink - these are jokes right?


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## mrjam2jab (Jul 23, 2004)

> TiVo Showroom, stand alone store or sections in retail stores like Best Buy or Circuit City


Does Tivo have enough "product base" for this type of idea?


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## dingo05 (Nov 9, 2006)

Return to DirecTV


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TiVo already has a free trial period (I think it's 30 days).

I've always been partial to the TiVoTV idea, for a second or third TV it seems like a good idea, especially now with CableCARDs.

The other suggestions... not so much.

The best thing they can do to compete with cable DVR and download services IMO is bring back Lifetime subscriptions.


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## Elevation (Jun 29, 2004)

Create software for PCs so we can use the TiVo interface on our media center PCs.

Allow transfer of files to portable media players directly from the TiVo box.

Add Slingbox-like functionality to TiVo without the need of using third-party software.


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## crumpler2000 (Oct 10, 2007)

Improve and build on existing services such as amazon unbox, rhapsody and games.

1. Provide a game download service similar to iTunes where you can purchase and install games. Also provide game SDK for developers.
2. Improve the amazon unbox partnership to compete with On Demand. For example I would gladly pay $12.00 a month to download unlimited movies from a selection of 20 to 30 movies (provided the selection doesn't suck). How about a bundle pre paid discount : pay $20 for $25 in unbox credit, $40 for $50 credit, etc.
3. Better online access, such as improving the online scheduling. I should be able to see my todo list and season passes online. I should also be able to authorize other house hold members access to online scheduling.

-Northeastern Alumni
Boston


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

My only advice, and I am not a Grad Student, is to drop the mindset that your growing a brand as much as taking markets.

Steal AppleTV, HTPC, Youtube, WindowsMCE, etc.. functions. 

Intergrate Tivo with a PC completely to allow media upload/download to local pc as well as download to portable media devices. Internet downloads to PC then Tivo, etc, etc. Update the Mp3 playing capabilities with Album art, Biographies, pics, etc. Microsoft is attempting this, Sony is, etc, etc... But unlike them, most people agree, Tivo belongs in the living room.

If Tivo became the true media connection between the internet, pc and TV.. it would be bigger than Microsoft Windows.. as more TV's exist than computers. That's a fact that Tivo is blind to. Also with bundled services (Selling concert tickets, Mp3's, Videos, Movie Tickets (w/DL video previews, reviews), etc, etc.) it isn't hard to see all the revenue or reward for all the programming, deal making, testing and development. Also alot of people have or will soon have outdated pc's that they can leave on 24-7 to serve media files, etc. The market is there... the hardware is there.. where is Tivo?


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

Create some kind of hardrive stack server that will seemlessly hide anywhere and attach to any Tivo to allow unlimited movie storage potential. This means your one true limitation is as many and the size of drives you want to buy.

Make it easy to switch between TV audio and home entertainment audio.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

barto712 said:


> We are a group of Grad students currently undertaking the endeavor of changing the way TiVo works. We have to come up with a way to innovate and change the TiVo experience. *We are to grow the company and expand TiVo's potential future growth.* We have a couple of ideas and would like to hear some feedback from devoted TiVo users. A few our ideas are as a follows
> 
> A TiVo TV with the TiVo technology already embedded in it. A partnership with TV makers would be a necessity.
> 
> ...


Forget all that bull$h1t and dump the service contracts. Mission accomplished.

If you want extra credit, fire the CEO, the entire marketing dept. and cut through a huge swath of the rest of the company to eliminate all the dead wood third raters in the way of success. Replace with people that actually know what business TiVo is in and how to succeed in that business.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

HDTiVo said:


> If you want extra credit, fire the CEO, the entire marketing dept. and cut through a huge swath of the rest of the company to eliminate all the dead wood third raters in the way of success. *Replace with people that actually know what business TiVo is in and how to succeed in that business*.


Do you actually have somebody in mind? To the best of my knowledge TiVo is not in business of any kind. Unless you call losing money on every sale for 9 years and printing stock certificates to compensate for loses a business.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

samo said:


> Unless you call losing money on every sale for 9 years and printing stock certificates to compensate for loses a business.


I call that a business *model*.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Forget all that bull$h1t and dump the service contracts. Mission accomplished.
> 
> If you want extra credit, fire the CEO, the entire marketing dept. and cut through a huge swath of the rest of the company to eliminate all the dead wood third raters in the way of success. Replace with people that actually know what business TiVo is in and how to succeed in that business.


The QA department can go too - obviously they have no function in the company. That would at least save a few bucks.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I think the Northeastern Grad Students must be more than a little dismayed by the responses to the list that they most likely generated in a brainstorming session (yes - a good brainstorming session produces lists like this - some good, some absurd, with the idea that even a crazy suggestion might stimulate an idea that isn't so crazy after all).

Folks, your post happened to hit the forum at a time when many of us are, to put it mildly, upset with TiVo's performance and methodology.


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## robm15 (Feb 23, 2004)

barto712 said:


> TiVo like IPOD
> 
> I kind of like this idea, A LOT. But I don't think a TiVo branded consumer product, like a IPOD, that only works with TiVo would generate enough interest to sell well. Now if the cost were down around say $75, and was easily expandable and could easily be tied in to a TV and download shows from your home TiVo while on a business trip, that might get a lot of interest. Imagine being on travel for a week or two. When you left home you loaded up your device with all the recorded shows you had. When you got to your hotel, you connected your device to your hotel TV or a laptop, and were watching that favorite show within minutes. When you got through all your shows in a few days you connected via the internet to your home TiVo and were getting newly recorded shows to watch the over the course of the next few nights. I see this device distingushing it self from the current stuff on the market in a few ways.
> 
> ...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

montz said:


> I'm all about innovating an already excellent product, but honestly, some of those suggestions are not realistic.
> TiVo TV - not gonna happen, would people buy a TV that was locked to Comcast because it came with a Comcast DVR?...


why would it be tied to comcast?

it could be either SD so it would work with any provider (probably with set top box in the future) or be cablecard so at least it works with basically any cable company or verizon (assuming they hash out the dongle nonsense for SDV).

Anyone want to refresh my memory- wasn't there a pres release from LG or Humax a coupld years back exactly about building tivo into a tv?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

slingbox certainly seems interesting but i am amazed they still exist and haven't been sued to oblivion.

when tivo first brought tivoguard (the DRM for MRV) to the FCC to get approved back when the broadcast flag was still alive, the NFL has a complete cow that tivo with MRV would allow people to avoid buying sunday ticket on directv and just give a tivo to their relatives or friends in different markets and then you would be able to watch your out of market teams with tivo and MRV. Tivo and the NFL had 'discussions' and there were some changes to tivogaurd /MRV made that keep you from MRV'ing a show in progress so the NFL would get off their back. 

So how the NFL hasn't sued the life out of slingbox I dont understand. 

When cablevision (or was it comcast?) tried to do remote DVR's from their headend one of the content providers had a cow and got them to stop until the case was resolved through the courts. That had somewhat different grounds but it's similar.

There's even a company that is (or was) selling time on out of market slingboxes via the new so you could just pay them to do exactly what the NFL freaked that tivo would do- circumvent season ticket. 

Does the NFL own a stake in slingbox or something?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

my vote on how to make things better- just make the tivo the hands down leader in the dvr space. Years back it was impossible to say that tivo(and replay) weren't the leaders and all the others weren't second rate. 

But now there are plenty of people that think the Directv or Dish late model DVR's are better. Plenty think cable DVR's are "good enough" or "almost the same". Years ago that wasn't the case. So the rest of the market has caught up and Tivo doesn't seem to be innovating fast enough to stay ahead (or maybe even in some cases even keep up with certain features).

There's a sizable list of simple changes they could make to become better in many people's eyes. Not giant undertakings like adding TTG or MRV or Unbox, etc. But small things like putting a little read dot next to programs scheduled to be recorded in the guide, giving those that want it a free space indicator, soft padding, smart padding (whatever you call what directv does with back to back shows on one tuner), add caller ID, PIP, pip in the guide, etc, etc. Many of these smaller things have been added by the hacking community years ago yet tivo still doesn't seem to have the resources devoted to get them done. 

If you want to be the crown jewel of DVR's it's tough to be when any one of your competitors has a small handfull of beasic features that you just dont have. I've purchased programs for my smartphone developed by 1 guy that added scores of minor features like that on a regular basis. I'm no programmer so I can't speak to how easy it is but being a layperson it makes tivo look stagnant.


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## davidjtuttle (Sep 26, 2007)

Tivo packages such as ESPN etc is by far the best idea. Can you say 'a la carte'? I used pay for cable until I realized I was paying $50 a month to watch ESPN. If Tivo could partner with various networks (eg. ESPN, CNN, TBS, MTV, Disney, etc) and offer it at a reasonable price, ie. $5/month per channel, allowing the customer to choose only the channels he/she prefers, Tivo would be a godsend to consumers. Tivo would make so much money, they could afford to drop the service contract : )


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

dingo05 said:


> Return to DirecTV


That's about the only thing I've seen listed that I might actually be interested in. If my current S3 was less glitchy and did two-way communication I'd be a lot happier.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

barto712 said:


> We are a group of Grad students currently undertaking the endeavor of changing the way TiVo works. We have to come up with a way to innovate and change the TiVo experience. We are to grow the company and expand TiVo's potential future growth. We have a couple of ideas and would like to hear some feedback from devoted TiVo users. A few our ideas are as a follows
> 
> A TiVo TV with the TiVo technology already embedded in it. A partnership with TV makers would be a necessity.
> 
> ...


No interest: Tivo TV, Tivo dinners, drinks.

Tivo Showroom might work, seeing how Tivo works might be a great selling point. Training would be tough.

Tivo media room might be better if they partnered with a companies to build a series of packages, like with say Pioneer for a reciever and Cambridge Soundworks for speakers. Controls built into a couch would be useless as you can't pass the couch around!

Parterning with more cable companies is great, but DirecTV would be better.

Not sure how the Tivo packaging for channels would work, one thing that I do like about Tivo is Suggestions, it really finds a lot of stuff I like.

I think you might want a focus group of non-Tivo people to see what might interest them. One think I know kills Tivo for a group of people is the percieved value of the monthly service fee, they can't see how $250 for a box and $17 a month is worth it.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

you mean streaming channels as "channel packaging" right?

They could start with that religious sat company that was hooked up with DISH that's leacing DBS and going IPTV. They need distribution so why not hook up with Tivo? They could offer tivo's with that Tivo+ (I think that's what they call the limited feature set that the DVD players come with for free?) as the set top box for that. Then give people the free trial on those boxes and see what you get for new subs, but at least you have more boxes deployed for ads and other services and you could test drive IPTV with a smaller operation.

But longer term I'd love if tivo figured out how to sell IPTV channels to me directly. They'd have to figure out how to get stuff streamed to me in HD. But basically the only thing i NEED cable for is my regional sports network. With all the sub channels on ATSC, I could seriously ditch cable/sat and save myself 50 or so bucks a month and just pay tivo 10 bucks for my RSN in HD.

That said- I can't wait to see what happens with cable internet now that Directv and DISH are looking to do VOD over cable broadband. Some how I'm not thinking cable is going to sit back and let that happen easily. I smell bandwidth caps or maybe sporadic "routing" issues will pop up on cable's broadband networks that make IPTV from others more difficult. I'm not so sure IPTV from 3rd party providers has much shot to become big unless someone steps in to make some net nuetrality rules and no one in government seems like they'll be getting that done.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I'd also like to see more content download partners like unbox. I noticed the other day that Disney stuff isn't on unbox as an example.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I think the Northeastern Grad Students must be more than a little dismayed by the responses to the list that they most likely generated in a brainstorming session (yes - a good brainstorming session produces lists like this - some good, some absurd, with the idea that even a crazy suggestion might stimulate an idea that isn't so crazy after all).
> 
> Folks, your post happened to hit the forum at a time when many of us are, to put it mildly, upset with TiVo's performance and methodology.


Perhaps they are not aware of the depths of the troubles TiVo has. This is not some company with a little slowdown in sales going through a product transition. This is a company with long standing substantial business model and execution problems, a deeply troubled corporate business culture featuring deeply entrenched non-performing decision makers and probably severely drained of much of its early talent.

This company is so much farther from being fixed by a few candy a$$ promotions and marginal tinkering around the marketing plan than perhaps they realised. If they picked this company themselves for the assignment, either change to something else or buckle down for a brainstorming session at a totally new level.

What ever happened to the OP, anyway?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

None of these partnering type ideas are going to get TiVo anywhere worthwhile. TiVo has been trying all of them to some extent or another and they are where they are for it. None of it is within TiVo's power to accomplish - meaning it depends heavily on another party to agree and requires sharing the benefits between parties - diluting the value to TiVo.

Cleaning house is the best course. It can be done most quickly and is purely within TiVo's power. There is so much left on the table right now that it exceeds other prospects. That's the way to go.

Once TiVo is showing some internal strength, partners will be much easier to find and much more value can come from such deals.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Cleaning house is the best course.


I agree, but you don't supply enough detail. Here's what they need to do.

Track down Darth Vader (the pre-redemption version). Put him in charge.

First, let him do his little "finger trick" to take care of all the marketing slime in the company. That shouldn't even need to be said.

Then turn him loose on those responsible for software 9.1. He should "go medieval on their a***s". Then he should go to every village where every one of these software people came from and go medievel in each of those villages, also. (Like he did to avenge his mother).

This should all be done in a very very public manner. There should be *consequences* for the abysmal performance at that company.

Just my humble opinion. 

But it probably means I'll never be asked to be a beta tester. (Do they really have those?)


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I.......
> Then turn him loose on those responsible for software 9.1. He should "go medieval on their a***s". Then he should go to every village where every one of these software people came from and go medievel in each of those villages, also. (Like he did to avenge his mother).
> 
> .......


Now that's going too far. Leave the innocent villagers alone. As for the rest - :up: :up: :up:

Edit:

WE are the "Beta Testers". In fact WE are the "Alpha Testers"


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

They could license a "TiVo board" to put into TVs I don't think there is too much demand for that, either from CE manufacturers or consumers. RCA made a TV with DirecTV receiver built in. I don't know how popular it is.

The best they could do is go back to the old, simpler package plans.
Maybe have a one time TiVoBasic upgrade fee (you purchase box, pay fee, get Tivo Basic, pay additional fee for HMO)

Encourage the continued use of older hardware, including adding ATSC support on them. If they are going to eliminate anything, eliminate the Series 1 platform from support.

They already have a week of trial period.

For new hardware, an ATSC capable Series 2 (like a TiVoHD, but includes an A/V input). And a PocketTiVo player. It might have to cost $199 or so. Perhaps a device to control RF remote boxes, such as the Dish322.

Get back with DirecTV.

Instead of directly partnering with particular cable operators, just develop the software for certain platforms, and just license it like current STB software packages are.

Make TiVoCast easier for an online netcaster to get into.Perhaps extra hardware to convert the MPEG4 flavor video to MPEG2.

What not to do:

Have a TiVo Store (at least outside of the TiVo offices at Alviso Ca), or integrated on site with their fulfillment center. They could make it easier for existing retailers to push Tivo though, by making in-store displays and such.

Make a TiVo Theater. Leave that up to some enterprising integrator.

Sell linear cable programming, at least not until the technology and business models of the channels get worked out.

License the TiVo name to food and drink.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

barto712 said:


> We are a group of Grad students currently undertaking the endeavor of changing the way TiVo works. We have to come up with a way to innovate and change the TiVo experience. We are to grow the company and expand TiVo's potential future growth. We have a couple of ideas and would like to hear some feedback from devoted TiVo users. A few our ideas are as a follows
> 
> A TiVo TV with the TiVo technology already embedded in it. A partnership with TV makers would be a necessity.


 Been tried, but with very little sucess. problem now is that you have to go HD which involves cable cards and expensive gear. Adds 200$ i n hardware minimum and what do you do about the subscripotion fee?? What TV maker is going to hang a monthly subscription fee on their TV


> TiVo Packages such as ESPN, Home and Garden, or Disney for Kids


great idea and I am sure TiVo is pursuing that one. Problem is the content providers agreements needed are VERY hard to procure for such a thing and would be expensive


> TiVo Showroom, stand alone store or sections in retail stores like Best Buy or Circuit City
> 
> TiVo media room- i.e. couch with remote and controls in arm rest, surround sound built in


 this is the angle to persue. People do not get TiVo and what it can do for them until they see it. Thing is they need an interactive demo where you can setup recordings and watch them. You need a cable sub and guide data for a really useful interactive display. Best Buy would not devote employees or money to such a full featured interactive area. How can Tivo make this work within an agreement with Best Buy that Best Buy or other retailers can live with.



> Free Trial Period for a month to encourage people to sign up to the services


TiVo has a 2 or 4 week trial period where the TiVo works and just nags for activating an account. Also TiVo has a 30 day full money back garauntee. They need to advertise it WAY better though.



> Eliminate Standard Definition boxes, only produce HD


TiVo is headed down this road already. They did a charge down for SD components in their inventory. The TiVo HD box is designed with circuit board open areas and punchouts on the case to handle all that an SD model DT does today. Might even be able to take HD from a component cable and record that as HD which gets them back in the Sat. provider game. That hardware has to get cheaper though.



> TiVo like IPOD


 another great avenue to follow for TiVo. They have TiVo desktop and Tivo ToGo which is great for those inclined to do some legwork. But if they had a portable device you just plugged into the back of the TiVo box via USB and pulled up a menu to copy shows to the portable!!!! Home run in Mom and Pop simplicity. Trouble is the LINUX drivers for such hookups. They would have to limit it to a specific TiVo compatible device, it could not work for just any portable you buy at Best Buy. Big bonus points if you can get Rhapsody and TiVoCast involved in providing content to the portable though. :up: :up: :up: 


> Partner with more cable companies to offer TiVo technology akin to the deal with Comcast


 always in the works at TiVo to get more partners but the cable companies are more the roadblock than TiVo is. You as grad students would have to know more than TiVo would ever publicly let out to analyze this avenue.


> Branch off into TiVo home dinners- Called "TiVo Dinners" that offer consumers on the go an affordable and quick meal before they settle in for the TiVo experience


 they tried this but again no real follow through from TiVo. TiVo would have to devote full time employees to keep such a thing rolling. What kind of ROI could they expect from that.
Oh wait, you mean sell dinners at the grocery store. I thought you meant host dinners for people to see what TiVo DVR can do, like tupperware parties. Well that would be a very, very long branch out to go from DVR software and hardware design(which is their core business) to frozen foods. maybe instead some kind of coop advertising with places like dream dinners would work. 


> TiVo Energy Drink- Stay up later to watch your TV


bet this one came up later in the night 

so not mentioned - Advertising, advertising, advertising. TiVo has this great known brand name. They have a set of features that truly set it far apart from other DVRs, real differentiators. You would think it would be a marketing wetdream but where are the ads??????? Few and far between and not in the public view. Heck just some simple TV spots 10 seconds long - "You would not be annoyed by this ad ever again if you go out and get a TiVo" "Also you can download your favorite movies and never have to go out again, once you go out and get a TiVo!!!".


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

classicsat said:


> The best they could do is go back to the old, simpler package plans.


I agree with this, very strongly. I can't understand the nuances of the current pricing, so I refuse to evangelize the product any more. And in earlier times I convinced quite a few colleagues at the office to get TiVo.

This entire thread has has an *amazing* number of good ideas. Even if you discount the people who are saying *"heads will roll for this"* should be more than a cliche.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I agree with this, very strongly. I can't understand the nuances of the current pricing, so I refuse to evangelize the product any more. And in earlier times I convinced quite a few colleagues at the office to get TiVo.
> 
> This entire thread has has an *amazing* number of good ideas. Even if you discount the people who are saying *"heads will roll for this"* should be more than a cliche.


the simpler plans did not pay TiVo enough. They want the avegae sub price to be around 10$. That makes lifetime a minimum of 480$ and that does not adress the hassle of that hardware lasting more than 4 years and being a PITA for TiVo.

They would most likely have to go with 15$ on fiorst sub and 9$ monthly for MSD subs to get that 10$ subs price if they want back to just monthly with no contracts. For me that would be a significant rise in what I pay monthly - no thanks.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the simpler plans did not pay TiVo enough. They want the avegae sub price to be around 10$. That makes lifetime a minimum of 480$ and that does not adress the hassle of that hardware lasting more than 4 years and being a PITA for TiVo.
> 
> They would most likely have to go with 15$ on fiorst sub and 9$ monthly for MSD subs to get that 10$ subs price if they want back to just monthly with no contracts. For me that would be a significant rise in what I pay monthly - no thanks.


None of that is the case. TiVo's goals, current results and needs are significantly different from that.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> None of that is the case. TiVo's goals, current results and needs are significantly different from that.


well my specific numbers are not based on a spreadsheet full of financial data - so they are wide;ly guessed at

But I know for a fact that TiVo has made a big deal out pof the average sub rate on each of their last few earnings calls and how they would like to get that figure to 10$. Perhaps you disagree with the strategy of bumping up that avaerage sub rate but then show what you would do instead.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the simpler plans did not pay TiVo enough. They want the avegae sub price to be around 10$. That makes lifetime a minimum of 480$ and that does not adress the hassle of that hardware lasting more than 4 years and being a PITA for TiVo.
> 
> They would most likely have to go with 15$ on fiorst sub and 9$ monthly for MSD subs to get that 10$ subs price if they want back to just monthly with no contracts. For me that would be a significant rise in what I pay monthly - no thanks.


Two options then. :

Make all the subs $10.99, no MSD, no Lifetime, no "bundles".
Or $14.99 monthly/$8.99 MSD, no Lifetime, September 2006 commitment rules on new hardware, 6 month commitment on used hardware.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so not mentioned - Advertising, advertising, advertising. TiVo has this great known brand name. They have a set of features that truly set it far apart from other DVRs, real differentiators. You would think it would be a marketing wetdream but where are the ads??????? Few and far between and not in the public view. *Heck just some simple TV spots 10 seconds long - "You would not be annoyed by this ad ever again if you go out and get a TiVo" "Also you can download your favorite movies and never have to go out again, once you go out and get a TiVo!!!"*.


I think this is a good idea. :up: 
Because I only have 1 Tivo, I do have to watch _some_ live TV, and I don't think I have _ever_ seen a Tivo ad on TV.
I don't know what TV ad rates are, but I would think Tivo could afford ONE commercial...


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

TiVo has been running ads like crazy the last few months. It's that whole "TiVo get's me" campaign (or something like that). You must be extra quick with the remote's FF button to miss them all. I recall at one point there was a fair amount of chatter with people complaining that they spent TOO much money on the advertising campaign.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> But I know for a fact that TiVo has made a big deal out pof the average sub rate on each of their last few earnings calls and how they would like to get that figure to 10$.


I seem to have missed that $10 target. I haven't heard it on any conference call or investor presentation. Can you help me out with finding the source?


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## FatesWebb (May 1, 2007)

barto712 said:


> We are a group of Grad students currently undertaking the endeavor of changing the way TiVo works. We have to come up with a way to innovate and change the TiVo experience. We are to grow the company and expand TiVo's potential future growth. We have a couple of ideas and would like to hear some feedback from devoted TiVo users. A few our ideas are as a follows
> 
> A TiVo TV with the TiVo technology already embedded in it. A partnership with TV makers would be a necessity.
> 
> ...


Tivo could go completely free, and satisfy a couple of problems at the same time.

advertisers are always complaining about tivo riiiight? so fix the problem......

people dont want to pay montly fees riiiight? so fix the problem...

have advertisers pay for the hardware, so that people can get it for (almost) free.... but every time you turn on your tivo or on the menu that avertiser has an add, that you see every time you use your tivo, not one that affects the function, but you see it...... and can get more information...

then have other advertisers pay money, and when you push the skip commercial button, for 2 seconds it shows a quick advertisment......

when you are paused, after 10 seconds it shows an advertisment.........

this way everyone can get a tivo, for like 20 dollars, and use it for no monthly charge....

already they are basically putting adds under the "more" button, just expand on that, so we dont have to pay monthly fees....

Now that would cause a tivo to be in every house, and tivos to be able to be built into tvs.... etc...

free speaks wonders to consumers...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

FatesWebb said:


> .....
> free speaks wonders to consumers...


I was going to quip that you get what you pay for but since 9.1 its obvious that's not true.


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## csell (Apr 16, 2007)

If you want to improve the Tivo experience, put more effort into the development of the HME applications. They did the right thing by opening up the Tivo software and allowing developers to create applications to run on the hardware, but Tivo kind of just abandoned it. They did have a slight new update to it recently, but nothing to write home about.

They should promote the HME development to a wider audience and encourage new applications. This could be something as simple as having another contest and giving out awards to having a program where they buy application that they like.

Also, and very important, come up with a place where these applications can be hosted. Dedicate servers for allowed approved HME applications to be hosted. They have a few 'boring' ones right now, but they can do much better.

I think that could go a long way in improving Tivo....


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## jkovach (Feb 17, 2000)

Tivo needs to come out with 'Tivo-Extender' or 'Tivo-Catcher' boxes. Completely solid-state, no hard drives. 8GB or more of chip memory. Does not have any guide data or tuners. Primarily used to watch the content from the other Tivos on the home network, but can also download TivoCasts, Amazon Unbox, and access the other Tivo HME functions (Rhapsody, Weather, Photos, Fandango movie listings, etc.) Includes 'Season Pass' functionality that automatically transfers new episodes of selected shows from the other Tivos on the home network. Can also be put into a 'remote control' mode, allowing one to remotely manage the other Tivos in the home, without interrupting what someone else is viewing.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jkovach said:


> Tivo needs to come out with 'Tivo-Extender' or 'Tivo-Catcher' boxes. Completely solid-state, no hard drives. 8GB or more of chip memory. Does not have any guide data or tuners. Primarily used to watch the content from the other Tivos on the home network, but can also download TivoCasts, Amazon Unbox, and the other Tvio HME functions (Rhapsody, Weather, Photos, Fandango movie listings, etc.) Includes 'Season Pass' functionality that automatically transfers new episodes of selected shows from the other Tivos on the home network. Can also be put into a 'remote control' mode, allowing one to remotely manage the other Tivos in the home, without interrupting what someone else is viewing.


Such a product, well exectued, could do alot for TiVo's business.

But it needs to be part of microsoft's media efforts, supporting all that, in addition to the TiVo features. Then it becomes an elite product with a large market reach supporting the hot growth areas of the digital media market.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

why do they need a thin client when the usual boxes with hard drives and brains can be had for free or low cost? What does it give them to have yet another product to confuse people with and spend resources developing for- it's frequentyly said they dont have enough resoruces to add all the features people ask about and fix all the minor bugs and keep moving forward so where are they going to pull the staff from to create a whole new product line? give it time and the HD boxes will come down even lower too. In the time it normally takes tivo to get new hardware out the HD boxes will be below 99 anyway.

Or do you guys think if they had thin clients there would be no monthly fees? I dont see that happening but I guess they could rework their whole paradigm and get into that model. But then they would need to charge the first box a bunch more or charge more for a thin client then the main boxes and how do you explain that to john q public?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> why do they need a thin client when the usual boxes with hard drives and brains can be had for free or low cost?


Because those boxes can't handle the content which is hot. They can't handle the "standards" or formats that are being and will be used. We are not even sure the hi def TiVoes can.

TiVo is lost out there on its own with its "proprietary" approach, having a terrific product for playing this stuff on the TV, but it is a product that doesn't play the stuff.

As far as changing the "paradigm," the "paradigm" is completely wrong now. It needs change. And it would be much easier to sell to the market. Surely you don't think TiVo is effectively "explain(_ing_) that to john q public" now?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Keep in mind TiVo is primarily a TV recorder for traditional TV services, and it does that well, and almost cheap. 

If Tivo, back in the day, were to design a box that could handle future video formats (from the web or otherwise), it would be expensive, perhaps prohibitively for a consumer product. They probably couldn't see that future, or chose to ignore that possibility for the short term goal of releasing a cheaper consumer grade MPEG2 based TV recorder.

As for accounting a driveless/tunerless box, sell it for a profit and tie some of its features to an active TiVo account. The account goes, those features go. some features are retained. I am thinking things like TiVocast and MRV should be tied to a TiVo acount to work.

Myself, I think a gateway convertor box would be a better solution than thin-clients.The video would come in from the net in whatever format it is in, and be converted to TiVo native MPEG2. The box would be either a box that connects through one's router, or to the USB of the TiVo. Although still, I think they have better fish to fry than to build such a device.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

classicsat said:


> Myself, I think a gateway convertor box would be a better solution than thin-clients.


In effect, TiVO is using the PC to do that now. Its a klunky, flawed solution. Your dedicated box could work much better from a functional standpoint.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Why not just give it all the features of the Interocitor and be done with it?

(Of course when Interocitors have bugs you really have a serious problem)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

FatesWebb said:


> free speaks wonders to consumers...


to me - it is not free if it is a business model of ads paying for the service because then the slippery slope is firmly on the path of more ads and ads that make me change how I watch TV on my DVR. I would likely either try and hack the TiVo to turn off ads which would likely end up in a back and forth war, like the iPhone and make the DVR even less usable since all hacks would be beat down. So inevitable I would end up on cable company DVRs.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Or do you guys think if they had thin clients there would be no monthly fees?


that is what everyone overlooks on the thin client idea. Either TiVo sells it for 4 times what it costs to make to profit upfront and offset the loss of possible monthly fees - or else hasa monthly fee on a thin client 

I would of course much rather spend 299$ on a full fledged TiVo HD.

mainly though that is because the TVs I have in the house are in places like the Bonis room and I want a tuner there to record there shows. Then family room and shows for everyone - so more tuners please.

possibly the master bedroom TV could use a thin client but tuners there handle conflicts in a pinch


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Anything that can make TiVo perceived to be more of a necessity than a luxury will make the monthly fees more palatable to the consumer. Remember when cell phones first came out, the monthly fees kept people away but now a cell phone is considered my most to be a necessity.

That's why I like the idea of the 'thin client'. Put a small box in every room where's theres a TV. Even if it's just for MRV, it makes it more necessary to have TiVo subscription. One more thing to brag about to non TiVo friends to convince them, they also need TiVo.

I'd also like to see a web browser in TiVo, and input jacks for satellite radio and terrestrial radio so you can record your favorite radio programs.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I generally don't like combo devices (e.g. TV/VCR, TV/DVD, phone/answering machine), so I wouldn't like the TV/TiVo combo either. The reason is, if one component breaks, you have to replace the whole combo, which can be expensive.

By staying modular, you just replace/repair the component that breaks.

Also, if you have a lifetime subscription, this could be very dangerous, because what if the TV component breaks, making the combo useless? You've just lost a valuable lifetime subscription.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

And we need a TiVo Lite as a new car option.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Tivo isn't selling enough DVR's today. I think we can all agree on that fact. The major reasons I see for that problem are the following...

It is easier to call your cable company and get a dvr from them than it is to buy a Tivo. I can call the cable company and get a new dvr delivered, installed, explained, repaired, etc. all for no upfront fee. To buy a Tivo I have to research which Tivo's are available, decide which to buy, decide how many years I'm willing to commit to get a lower monthly price, install it myself, and figure out how to use it myself. If I go to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. there is no employee there that knows about Tivo. These things do not sell themselves. No matter what new features Tivo adds new features will not fix this problem. Tivo already has 10 times the features of the cable dvr. It hasn't help drive sales. 

Even if someone wants a Tivo the idea of signing up for monthly payments on a souped up VCR keeps many people from ever trying it.

Now given that those are the problems holding back sales how does Tivo fix them?

1. Tivo demo kiosks in major malls. Staffed by a trained Tivo employee that can intelligently explain the benefits and demo the product. Tivo's will not sell themselves. 

2. Change the software design so that it has two levels of features, free and enabled with a paid subscription. Then sell them at actual cost so that you aren't losing money on each sale. Once people buy it and try it they will want the extra features that come with the monthly subscription. Offer free months of the premium services to get customers hooked.

3. Simplify the pricing. Everyone pays $10 a month per Tivo for the premium services. Offer a household rate for $25 a month that covers as many Tivos as you want to buy.

4. And finally fire the idiot that came up with the antenna commercial. It didn't help.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

HiDef:

Something to add to your preamble is the very meaningful rate of hassle getting a fully working hi def TiVo what with cableCARD install, etal. 

1. Is expensive in TiVo terms and would have to be looked at closely.

2. Already selling hi def boxes at around actual cost. S2's have huge accounting write-off. Mission partially accomplished.  

3. Yup. Lower, simpler sub price makes sense given (2). No sense selling S3s with same sub price options they sold subsidized S2s or to continue with TiVo HD.

4. Good start.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> 3. Simplify the pricing. Everyone pays $10 a month per Tivo for the premium services. Offer a household rate for $25 a month that covers as many Tivos as you want to buy.


well it will sell more TiVo DVRs but they would have to watch the household use a lot more closely than they do MSD rate. Some people might consider 3 houses of parents amd kids as one household and be fine sharing one account 

Also 25/5 = 5$ avarage sub in my house and i would easily buy more DVR boxes. Since TiVo probably pays per box doing guide download that household rate would have to be set to give TiVo at least 7$ a box.

So the 10$ flat fee would likely sell less TiVo boxes unless they grandfather all the MSD rates out there now. Wonder what it would do to future Multi Service sales without some household rate?

PS - I do completely agree on price and product understanding (including cable cards) being the main impediments to higher sales.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Since TiVo probably pays per box doing guide download that household rate would have to be set to give TiVo at least 7$ a box.


TiVo probably pays Tribune less than $1/mo/unit, and certainly doesn't pay much more than $1. I don't know if there is an MSD difference per box, but MSD came into existence around the time TiVo renewed its contract with Tribune, so I've always suspected there might be some break per unit.

TiVo's _average _ service cost per unit (ACPU) is around $2.25/mo lately. The marginal unit is certainly somewhat less than that.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> I seem to have missed that $10 target. I haven't heard it on any conference call or investor presentation. Can you help me out with finding the source?


have not found the transcript where they speak of the 10$ average sub goal but here is from early this year in which the y speak of increasing the avergae sub

http://seekingalpha.com/article/28959-tivo-f4q07-qtr-end-1-31-07-earnings-call-transcript


> Our objective has been to increase not only the size of our subscription base, but also the value of each new subscription brought on. We're seeing continued success from our newer subscriptions, which are paying monthly fees well in excess of last year.
> 
> In addition, we continue to benefit from the efficiency of online sale with 33% of total sales coming from the online channel.
> 
> ...


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well it will sell more TiVo DVRs but they would have to watch the household use a lot more closely than they do MSD rate. Some people might consider 3 houses of parents amd kids as one household and be fine sharing one account
> 
> Also 25/5 = 5$ avarage sub in my house and i would easily buy more DVR boxes. Since TiVo probably pays per box doing guide download that household rate would have to be set to give TiVo at least 7$ a box.
> 
> ...


I supect the number of houses with more than 2 Tivo's is pretty small. They would need some way to keep people from putting several on their account and handing them out to relatives. Perhaps a simple $25 a month for up to 4 or 5 Tivos before an additional fee kicks in. Maybe with cable cards they could tell if they were not located in the same house?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> I supect the number of houses with more than 2 Tivo's is pretty small. They would need some way to keep people from putting several on their account and handing them out to relatives. Perhaps a simple $25 a month for up to 4 or 5 Tivos before an additional fee kicks in. Maybe with cable cards they could tell if they were not located in the same house?


They can tell from when the TiVos call in, where they're calling in from.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> I supect the number of houses with more than 2 Tivo's is pretty small. They would need some way to keep people from putting several on their account and handing them out to relatives. Perhaps a simple $25 a month for up to 4 or 5 Tivos before an additional fee kicks in. Maybe with cable cards they could tell if they were not located in the same house?


I do not think they would have to do anything different then now to know where TiVo DVRs are located. Your plan could be put into effect, they would just have to implement the controls and truly enforce it.

Still I bet the number of 3 or more TiVo's is kind of small for now. Maybe they could add broadband requirement to it as a further benefit to TiVo


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Because those boxes can't handle the content which is hot. They can't handle the "standards" or formats that are being and will be used. We are not even sure the hi def TiVoes can.
> 
> TiVo is lost out there on its own with its "proprietary" approach, having a terrific product for playing this stuff on the TV, but it is a product that doesn't play the stuff.
> 
> As far as changing the "paradigm," the "paradigm" is completely wrong now. It needs change. And it would be much easier to sell to the market. Surely you don't think TiVo is effectively "explain(_ing_) that to john q public" now?


so it's not really thin client vs tivo stand alone but really standards based box vs tivo proprietary box.

I wouldn't disagree at all that tivo should get more standard compliant to give people more options.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Tivo probably doesn't like that we talk about it but there's nothing today stopping anyone from adding piles of boxes with MSD to one account- so I dont know that adding a per house option makes them need to change anything as far as checking who does what. DBS has the same sort of problem and generally I think directv at least doesn't bother to check what phone your boxes call in from.

But in regards to tivo- I gave a unit to a friend years ago with lifetime before they had their gift giving system set up easily so I had to put it in my name so it was activated when he opened it up. It's been sitting on my account for like 3-4 years that way and he lives in a different state. He has dial up and the 3 boxes in my house use broadband. Granted his box has lifetime and one of my boxes has lifetime so I'm not getting over on tivo in any way shape or form. But there's nothing in tivo's current system to keep that from happening and if my morals were someplace else maybe I wouldn't have lifetime in my house and I'd be using his box to get me MSD on my boxes. If you search it's not a rare occurance at all to have those early gifted tivo's be on the same account. 

(and earlier I gave my brother in law an old series 1 I had with lifetime- so at one point there were 3 different locations all on one account with 3 different lifetime subs- my brother in law wanted to get a second box so I told him to get his lifetime changed out of my name and put in his so he would have his own account set up for MSD)


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

timckelley said:


> They can tell from when the TiVos call in, where they're calling in from.


From dial-ins, it isn't that easy. Well, they could have it call a toll free number with ANI each month or so. For a networked DVR, they call from the same IP address (but that can change on some broadband providers)., or each TiVo on the account reports what other TiVos it sees on the network, to ensure they are all in the same place.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Tivo probably doesn't like that we talk about it but there's nothing today stopping anyone from adding piles of boxes with MSD to one account- so I dont know that adding a per house option makes them need to change anything as far as checking who does what. DBS has the same sort of problem and generally I think directv at least doesn't bother to check what phone your boxes call in from.


Its not really a big problem for TiVo, as there aren't a whole lot doing it, nor are they taking a big loss if they do. If it were to be a problem for them, they'd do something about it, for sure.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

classicsat said:


> From dial-ins, it isn't that easy.


Couldn't they use Caller ID technology to see what phone number they're dialing in from?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

classicsat said:


> Its not really a big problem for TiVo, as there aren't a whole lot doing it, nor are they taking a big loss if they do. If it were to be a problem for them, they'd do something about it, for sure.


exactly.

Point is- if it's not a huge problem today then it's not going to be an order of magnitude bigger with a pay one price per house plan. At least that's my figuring.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> exactly.
> 
> Point is- if it's not a huge problem today then it's not going to be an order of magnitude bigger with a pay one price per house plan. At least that's my figuring.


25 bucks per household.

Son goes to college, takes a TiVo. No problem cause Dad buys the newest model and just purts it in the household account
Son gets his own place and sets up TiVo, why bother to take it off household account and have to pay for it (morals aside)

vs

Son takes a MSD Tivo to college
If Dad gets newest model to replace -well that is 7 more bucks a month for TiVo
Son gets his own place - dad tells him to pay for the TiVo himself
Son says fine then I will make my own account

you can see how in the first account the Avg. revenue per unit in the house goes down as people are more inclined to leave Boxes on the household account. It could be an order of magnitude worse and TiVo DVRs could easily spread out from the initial house.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

timckelley said:


> Couldn't they use Caller ID technology to see what phone number they're dialing in from?


you could but I guess the smarter thieves would set a prefix of *xx that disables caller ID for the receiving phone.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> 25 bucks per household.
> 
> Son goes to college, takes a TiVo. No problem cause Dad buys the newest model and just purts it in the household account
> Son gets his own place and sets up TiVo, why bother to take it off household account and have to pay for it (morals aside)
> ...


I guess I see now that people would tend to leave boxes on forever as there's no incentive to take them off. it's not pirtes you are worried about who would buy a house account and then purposely hook up 7 friends to take advantage of MSD- just the left over boxes that would never get turned off.

But you are assuming many would pay the 25 bucks a house fee. Only people with 3 or more boxes would have that already. We are loons here and all tend to have tons of boxes but I'm not even sure the average consumer now has 2 boxes.

So how many johny's are going to go off to school with the spare tivo and then get more boxes? Once johny "grows up" and moves out and gets married he's going to want another box to MRV and all that neat stuff. So at some point he takes it off daddy's account and gets his own. Also how long does the average box last? It it's old anyway will it even last all through college anyway. Is dad going to buy Johney a new box and put it back on his account when he's in his Junior year?

Also If it's proced right then I'm not even sure it's a big deal. I wouldn't venture to know what that price point is. But at some point tivo gets things from having boxes in the wild. Better advertising revenues, better samples for ratings sales, viral advertising and all. Probably those are the reasons they dont really care about the MSD 'problem' - although unlimited boxes for no additonal fee is a bit different.

I guess I'm saying I dont see it being that huge even with the johny going to school factor.

But again if it worked out to be a big deal (and it COULD i suppose based on your explanation) it's not all that difficult to stop for most people . Require 25 dollar houses to be networked and the boxes need to ping each other or whatever to make sure they are in the same house. So if it makes business sense they can easily do it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> But you are assuming many would pay the 25 bucks a house fee. Only people with 3 or more boxes would have that already. We are loons here and all tend to have tons of boxes but I'm not even sure the average consumer now has 2 boxes.


yep 13 +7 +7 makes that 3rd box the tipping point for such a house fee and I agree most households are on 1 or 2 tivo DVRs, especially with the dual tuner models and only monthly service plans of today.

still if it was a flat rate of 25. I bet a lot of houses would go to 3 or more a lot quicker. Give a gift one to Aunt Sally but just put it on the household account.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> you could but I guess the smarter thieves would set a prefix of *xx that disables caller ID for the receiving phone.


TiVo could require that you not disable caller ID informationnn. They could enforce it by withholding guide data from being transmitted through such a phone signal.


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## orev (Feb 16, 2003)

I want a small set-top box that works like a TiVo using MRV. This box cannot record anything on it's own, but allows you to watch shows on another TiVo in the house/network. This box would cost about $100, and not have any subscription fees associated.

And fire the marketing department. The ads they produce NEVER hit the message home, they just dance around it.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

timckelley said:


> TiVo could require that you not disable caller ID informationnn. They could enforce it by withholding guide data from being transmitted through such a phone signal.


I don't think you understand the situation. There are a very small number of subscribers who call TiVo; I would guess less than a thousand. Everybody else who calls is using national dialup companies like uunet. I would not expect these companies use or keep caller ID info - there's no reason for them to.

From TiVo's perspective, there's no difference between these callers and people who are directly using broadband to contact TiVo.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> I don't think you understand the situation. There are a very small number of subscribers who call TiVo; I would guess less than a thousand. Everybody else who calls is using national dialup companies like uunet. I would not expect these companies use or keep caller ID info - there's no reason for them to.
> 
> From TiVo's perspective, there's no difference between these callers and people who are directly using broadband to contact TiVo.


I'm confused. Out of the people who use their phone line to dial in, don't the vast majority call in directly, instead of relaying through a third party? I wouldn't know how to do that, and I wouldn't think the typical citizen would either. It doesn't seem unreasonable to require people who call in using their phone line call in directly without suppressing their caller ID.

People who call in through their internet connection is a separate matter. For that, maybe IDing the household through an IP address might be technique to consider.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

timckelley said:


> I'm confused. Out of the people who use their phone line to dial in, don't the vast majority call in directly, instead of relaying through a third party? I wouldn't know how to do that, and I wouldn't think the typical citizen would either. It doesn't seem unreasonable to require people who call in using their phone line call in directly without suppressing their caller ID.
> 
> People who call in through their internet connection is a separate matter. For that, maybe IDing the household through an IP address might be technique to consider.


Using the TiVo-published local telephone numbers usually results in dialing into a network provider modem pool (like uunet, perhaps others). TiVo has set this up with the network provider in advance, so the presence of the network provider is invisible to the user.

Odds are you are already dialing into a network provider modem pool who then passes your traffic over a backbone network to the TiVo servers, wherever they are.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

I bet the guy that started this thread never came back to look at the responses.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

timckelley said:


> I'm confused. Out of the people who use their phone line to dial in, don't the vast majority call in directly, instead of relaying through a third party? I wouldn't know how to do that, and I wouldn't think the typical citizen would either.


No, the TiVo does it for you.

All those numbers that TiVo gives you during guided setup are numbers of nearby national ISP systems/modem_banks that TiVo has made arrangements with. When the TiVo calls, the modem on the other end answers. The TiVo logs into that system exactly as your computer would log into a local ISP, giving a name (I believe "tivo") and a password. Once connected, the TiVo goes through the same process as it would if it were directly connected through broadband.

TiVo does not control all those local phone numbers and does not have its modems on the end of those numbers. It has no direct access to the calls.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVo must already have a method for enforcing the $6 multi-TiVo discount. To do that, they'd need to know if multiple TiVos are in the same house.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

timckelley said:


> TiVo must already have a method for enforcing the $6 multi-TiVo discount. To do that, they'd need to know if multiple TiVos are in the same house.


I've never seen a report where they did enforce it. On the other hand I've read numerous reports where folks have used MSD boxes in vacation homes, etc.

I have a hunch that it just isn't worth the time and expense to TiVo to police the usage.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

janry said:


> I bet the guy that started this thread never came back to look at the responses.


You think he was a drive by poster?


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> I've never seen a report where they did enforce it. On the other hand I've read numerous reports where folks have used MSD boxes in vacation homes, etc.
> 
> I have a hunch that it just isn't worth the time and expense to TiVo to police the usage.


I've seen a couple of reports over the years, but not nearly as many as I would expect if they were going after it. The cases I've seen were attributed to zip code differences being noticed (the zip code is reported by the TiVos in a standard call).


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> have not found the transcript where they speak of the 10$ average sub goal but here is from early this year in which the y speak of increasing the avergae sub
> 
> http://seekingalpha.com/article/28959-tivo-f4q07-qtr-end-1-31-07-earnings-call-transcript


You won't find the $10 number because it does not exist. 

TiVo has been saying their new subscribers are coming in at about $13/mo on average for at least 2 or 3 qtrs.



MichaelK said:


> so it's not really thin client vs tivo stand alone but really standards based box vs tivo proprietary box.
> 
> I wouldn't disagree at all that tivo should get more standard compliant to give people more options.


Its both. The thin client concept is by definition much cheaper than a full fledged TiVo box, while still offering TiVo a profit margin and larger market share (or total units/subs.)



> Tivo probably doesn't like that we talk about it but there's nothing today stopping anyone from adding piles of boxes with MSD to one account


I really don't think the per household max idea is all that important because a restructuring of the whole price/sub/contract system could minimize that. In terms of the TiVo HD in particular, embedding $6.95/mo somehow into the transaction is not that big a burden anymore because of the much higher monthly cost of the cable DVRs.

_Edit: Also, TiVo generates some revenue per subscriber from ads and product sales, which would contribute to per household income or thin client low/no sub fee situations._


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

timckelley said:


> Couldn't they use Caller ID technology to see what phone number they're dialing in from?


It isn't their dial-ins to control, they contract form 3rd party dial-in providers. If they have the capability of collecting dial-ins and relay that data to customers, well, okay, then maybe, but it would take a bit of work though logging the data, and cross referencing the calling number, POP port(which usually equates an IP address), and the TSN, then to the TiVo account. Occasionally calling an 800 number is marginally easier, and they could do all the logging in-house. And the ANI that 800 numbers can use cannot be blocked.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> You won't find the $10 number because it does not exist.
> 
> TiVo has been saying their new subscribers are coming in at about $13/mo on average for at least 2 or 3 qtrs.


yes but they are tracking the Average revenue per Unit (not just new units)
that is the number they are trying to grow and I read in some call transcript they saw 10$ as some milestone. Still the number itself is not important in generic forum discussions since we can not work with actual raw financial data from TiVo anyhow. The main point is that TiVo definitely wants to increase ARPU to make investors happy and seem to see that as road to profits versus lower monthly fees offset by more sales.

It is a large factor in offering lifetime transfer on 4 year old Lifetimes that draw down that ARPU number. They should just make it automatic to have a transfer option after 4 years.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes but they are tracking the Average revenue per Unit (not just new units)
> that is the number they are trying to grow and saw 10$ as some milestone. It is a large factor in offering lifetime transfer on 4 year old Lifetimes that draw down that ARPU number.
> 
> they should just make it automatic to have a transfer option after 4 years.


They always give ARPU; it is a little over $9 the last two QTRs. They want to increase ARPU, but haven't given any specific target that I've ever heard.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> They always give ARPU; it is a little over $9 the last two QTRs. They want to increase ARPU, but haven't given any specific target that I've ever heard.


does 10$ sound unreasonable given our ancillary knowledge of their raw financial data?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

If they could get there, it looks like it would take a very long time:

The last 4 QTRs, year over year ARPU changed by $.20, .52, .18 and -.15. (Q2,1,3,4)

So if they are only going to advance about .20-.25 per year, it could take 3 or 4 years.

I also question the long term viability of that $13 average. Those subs will switch to lower rates or leave I think. Just because the average day one rate for a sub is $13 doesn't mean it stays there long term.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> I also question the long term viability of that $13 average. Those subs will switch to lower rates or leave I think. Just because the average day one rate for a sub is $13 doesn't mean it stays there long term.


Most would go for 3 years after the first year or drop TiVo DVR, I would think.

So assume not many 16,95 rates let to draw up the avergae then that means a mix of 13$ and 8.91$ for years 2-3 on those that went prepay for first time TiVo buyers

maybe a mix like below would work
-any new account (MSD or not) is 9.99$ and you sign up a year at a time or 3 years to price protect but no lower fee.
-DO the household rate at whatever price point the numbers crucnch out
-keep offering deals that drag some more revenue out of 4 year old lifetimes


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

If it were me, I'd look to drive large volumes of essentially unsubsidized TiVo HD sales with much lower sub cost. I'd cut back on large amounts of absolute dollars of marketing spending (and trim some other areas too...), and let the combination of higher Gross Adds and lower $ spend drive SAC very low, yielding profitable sales.

On top of that I'd drive ad revenue, product sales, etal. higher to add more $/mo beyond the actual sub fee; I'd use the higher sub growth rate, and the increasingly "modern" and larger installed base to attract more and better deals in this area.

I'd sell the boxes on terms that include ALL UPFRONT (ie. like Lifetime), NO UPFRONT ($0 with higher monthly cost - similar to financing the ownership of a car, with the sub cost embeded in there too); and similar to today's method, but without any contract terms (somewhere between $6.95 and $9.95/mo, probably with some MSD rates.)


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> If it were me, I'd look to drive large volumes of essentially unsubsidized TiVo HD sales with much lower sub cost.


Currently only the Tivo HD sales from their website are unsubsidized. Any bought from Amazon, Best Buy, etc. are sold at a loss to Tivo today.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> Currently only the Tivo HD sales from their website are unsubsidized. Any bought from Amazon, Best Buy, etc. are sold at a loss to Tivo today.


It is a small subsidy, according to them, which is why I call it 'essentially unsubsidized.' Overall, if that is the case, it can be ignored to the extent of concern about long term commitments. Its small enough that TiVo should have the confidence that their customers will keep the product active long enough to cover any such minor subsidy.

Also, there is so much non-hardware $$ in SAC that driving volumes higher can overcome quite a bit of HW subsidy.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Not trying to argue the point but if it costs $299 for them to make it and Best Buy sells it for $299, then Best Buy is getting it for far less than $299. I would guess more like a $100+ subsidy per box so BB pays less than $199 for them. Best Buy wouldn't bother if the gross net for them was only $50 a box.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> Not trying to argue the point but if it costs $299 for them to make it and Best Buy sells it for $299, then Best Buy is getting it for far less than $299. I would guess more like a $100+ subsidy per box so BB pays less than $199 for them. Best Buy wouldn't bother if the gross net for them was only $50 a box.


But that just isn't the way TiVo is 'describing' it.


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