# Loud Grinding Noise At Startup ?



## Durkis007 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hello All...

Been a long time reader of these forums, but never had any issues with my boxes till now.

This morning I noticed my Premier that we purchased last November was very loud. I proceed to unplug and plug back in to see if that would correct the issue. However when I plugged back in, there was a terrible loud grinding noise. My best guess is that the hard drive is starting to fail.

Im sure others have had this happen, just looking for a confirmation.

Also, since i'm still in the one year warranty period, how does Tivo handle the warranty claims? Do i need to mail it back or will they just ship me a new hard drive for self install ? 

Thanks,
Derek


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

My first thought was the fan as well... Can you place your ear close enough to the back of the unit and determine if it's coming from the rear exhaust?

If it's a fan going bad, they are generally easy to replace (with a Torx T-10 screwdriver to open the unit).

This thread has some fan options:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=456669


----------



## Durkis007 (Sep 5, 2012)

Yes, the unit boots as it should. Last night I listened to it up close, I think it may just be the fan now that I read through the post you provided. I have had over the years 5 tivos and this would be the first one to give me any issue.

Other then this, the only problem I have had is with my older Tivo HD, I purchased the expansion hard drive from western digital, and that thing crapped out after about a year, and I lost all my shows. Since then I wont chance using the expander drive.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

My vote is also on fan, that's exactly the right symptoms.
You can test this by turning it off then when it starts up and screeches stick a pen in the fan grill to stop it  if it shuts up it's the fan.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Durkis007 said:


> Yes, the unit boots as it should. Last night I listened to it up close, I think it may just be the fan now that I read through the post you provided. I have had over the years 5 tivos and this would be the first one to give me any issue.
> 
> Other then this, the only problem I have had is with my older Tivo HD, I purchased the expansion hard drive from western digital, and that thing crapped out after about a year, and I lost all my shows. Since then I wont chance using the expander drive.


The most common failure on the expander is the case itself, many folks have found that by putting the expander drive in the amazing Antec MX-1 case it performs admirably.


----------



## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Try using some canned air to blow out the fan as well.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It sounds like the fan. I had to replace mine on one of the Premiere XLs.


----------



## Woodser1765 (Dec 27, 2011)

My Tivo was making the same sound today after having it unpluged for some entertainment center work. Now it won't boot
. I opened the case and found the noise coming from the hard drive. Looks like I will be upgrading it soon!


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Whenever sticking something in the fan to stop the blades momentarily, be sure that something is non-conductive just in case any of it breaks off and gets thrown onto the power supply which is right next to it.

I suggest a cheap, skinny, plastic handled "artists type" paint brush.

Your kid probably has one you can steal.


----------



## FiddyownzX1 (Sep 23, 2012)

Durkis007 said:


> Hello All...
> 
> Been a long time reader of these forums, but never had any issues with my boxes till now.
> 
> ...


Probably want to call TiVo.

*Don't open the box if you plan to exchange it.*

They can't process any exchanges until Monday, their systems are down.

Inside 1 year, $49.99 for the Exchange. + $99 (Deposit, comes back after about 2 weeks) if you want them to advance a TiVo out to you (Without waiting to get the defective unit, first).

-UPS Ground
-Pre-paid shipping label sent via email.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Durkis007 said:


> Hello All...
> 
> Been a long time reader of these forums, but never had any issues with my boxes till now.
> 
> ...


This sounds like it might be the fan. It's pretty obvious if it's the fan since the noise will be coming directly from the spot where the exhaust fan is. If that is it, Blow a can of air on the fan with the Premiere off and it will probably be fine. If not the get a replacement fan. And while the case is open blow out all of the dust from the inside. I've had this happen before with a box that was not plugged in for a while and was cold.


----------



## duanew (Feb 1, 2007)

Think that I have oiled my series 2 fan a couple of times in its life. I have also done this to some computer fans. All that you usually have to do is peal back the sticker and put a couple drops of oil on the fan shaft or bearing. Replace the sticker and replace the fan and all is better.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I've always just gone the route of replacing the fan instead of oiling it. But of course either way works.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

duanew said:


> Think that I have oiled my series 2 fan a couple of times in its life. I have also done this to some computer fans. All that you usually have to do is peal back the sticker and put a couple drops of oil on the fan shaft or bearing. Replace the sticker and replace the fan and all is better.


Better yet, use a combination of light grease and light oil.

The grease provides "body" and the oil makes it more slippery.


----------



## Durkis007 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey Guys...

Just figure I give an update... It was for sure the fan as the noise is gone now.

I swapped out the stock fan for the Evercool that was suggested. I picked it up from Newegg for $6 bucks plus $1.99 shipping. Wasnt worth calling tivo for a warranty replacement.

I also purchased a second one for a backup on my other tivo.

Thanks Again!


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

Should I be worried that something is going to fail? I've recently heard a loud noise when the Premiere is starting up as well. Also, last night the TiVo just suddenly rebooted for no apparent reason. Is this some indication that something is going to fail? It is only 2 1/2 years old.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> Should I be worried that something is going to fail? I've recently heard a loud noise when the Premiere is starting up as well. Also, last night the TiVo just suddenly rebooted for no apparent reason. Is this some indication that something is going to fail? It is only 2 1/2 years old.


The motherboard shouldn't be making any noise, or even be able to make any noise, and the power supply would probably make a sort of ticking noise if it were going to be making any noise at all, so it's probably either the fan or the hard drive or both.

This might be a good time to go read the thread about using the jmfs cd v1.04 to copy your Premiere drive to a larger one and expand into the extra space.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968


----------



## JandS (Oct 1, 2010)

Looking at the back of the Tivo and the fan location on the XL 2/4, the suggestion to use canned air to blow the fan dust off seems counterproductive, wouldn't that just be blowing the dust back further inside the Tivo itself?

I can't see any sort of angle at which the air stream could be directed so that the dust is blown "out" of other air vents, either.

I occasionally vacuum the fan (with the Tivo unit unplugged) and certainly compressed air would have a better result, but I can't bring myself to just blow the dust inside. Maybe compressed air in while using the hose at another vent to grab the dust? Am I missing some obvious tech skills?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Take the top off and blow the dust out. I try to do this once a year, but so far I have not touched my launch Elite. I'll probably do it around Christmas.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> The motherboard shouldn't be making any noise, or even be able to make any noise, and the power supply would probably make a sort of ticking noise if it were going to be making any noise at all, so it's probably either the fan or the hard drive or both.
> 
> This might be a good time to go read the thread about using the jmfs cd v1.04 to copy your Premiere drive to a larger one and expand into the extra space.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968


Thanks, I guess I'll start by blowing out the dust but the unit is kind of hard to get to so I'll probably wait until the holiday when I'll have more time.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> Thanks, I guess I'll start by blowing out the dust but the unit is kind of hard to get to so I'll probably wait until the holiday when I'll have more time.


If it starts rebooting often, probably better to unplug the power instead of let it continue to damage itself.


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

lujan said:


> Thanks, I guess I'll start by blowing out the dust but the unit is kind of hard to get to so I'll probably wait until the holiday when I'll have more time.


Impatience got the best of me so I blew out all of the dust after opening the Premiere. I can definitely tell that it's the fan now which is good. This didn't work however 'cause it still makes a lot of noise when starting up and seems to be continuing now all the time and not only at start up. I heard that this was the fan I needed:

Evercool 50x15mm fan # EC5015M12CA

Does anyone know what type of hard drive the basic Premiere uses in case I need to replace that as well?


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> Impatience got the best of me so I blew out all of the dust after opening the Premiere. I can definitely tell that it's the fan now which is good. This didn't work however 'cause it still makes a lot of noise when starting up and seems to be continuing now all the time and not only at start up. I heard that this was the fan I needed:
> 
> Evercool 50x15mm fan # EC5015M12CA
> 
> Does anyone know what type of hard drive the basic Premiere uses in case I need to replace that as well?


Go ahead and grab a WD20EURS from Amazon or newegg right now while they're only $100 and read up on how to copy the Premiere drive to it, and then take advantage of the extra space.

When you do that, put the original drive on a shelf for safekeeping in case it's ever needed again.

I was going to ask why you didn't just look at the drive while you had the cover off, but I seem to remember something about it being mounted upside down.


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> Go ahead and grab a WD20EURS from Amazon or newegg right now while they're only $100 and read up on how to copy the Premiere drive to it, and then take advantage of the extra space.
> 
> When you do that, put the original drive on a shelf for safekeeping in case it's ever needed again.
> 
> I was going to ask why you didn't just look at the drive while you had the cover off, but I seem to remember something about it being mounted upside down.


EDIT: Never mind, I think I found it:

Western Digital 320 GB TCD746320

I'm not interested in getting a larger drive as I barely use 10 - 15% of the drive now and also have an external drive connected to it. I'm interested in getting the exact size of drive that comes with the basic Premiere when it is shipped. Do you know what that is?


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> EDIT: Never mind, I think I found it:
> 
> Western Digital 320 GB TCD746320
> 
> I'm not interested in getting a larger drive as I barely use 10 - 15% of the drive now and also have an external drive connected to it. I'm interested in getting the exact size of drive that comes with the basic Premiere when it is shipped. Do you know what that is?


If you have a TCD746320, then that 320GB drive is the same size.

If you have the more recent TCD746500 (exact same machine but with a 500GB drive), then you need a 500GB drive.

Since you have an external drive (something you should have mentioned upfront while we were still in diagnosis mode), you may have to go with an exact replacement size-wise because of the odd way TiVo does the external drive "marriage".

You might want to look around for a less expensive 320, however, 'cause that one's mighty pricey for what you're getting.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> EDIT: Never mind, I think I found it:
> 
> Western Digital 320 GB TCD746320
> 
> I'm not interested in getting a larger drive as I barely use 10 - 15% of the drive now and also have an external drive connected to it. I'm interested in getting the exact size of drive that comes with the basic Premiere when it is shipped. Do you know what that is?


If you get that model, you may have to run the utility

wdidle3

to turn off WD's Intellipark feature.


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> If you have a TCD746320, then that 320GB drive is the same size.
> 
> If you have the more recent TCD746500 (exact same machine but with a 500GB drive), then you need a 500GB drive.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, I'm almost sure it's the older 320GB drive 'cause I got it the same month the Premiere's came out (April 2010). Also, since I don't use the external drive because of the limited usage, I could get a replacement drive without the external drive "marriage" I suppose? What would be the generic equivalent of the WD 320GB drive?


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> Thanks again, I'm almost sure it's the older 320GB drive 'cause I got it the same month the Premiere's came out (April 2010). Also, since I don't use the external drive because of the limited usage, I could get a replacement drive without the external drive "marriage" I suppose? What would be the generic equivalent of the WD 320GB drive?


If you replace the drive, you need to copy it to the new drive.

Unlike the Series 1, 2, and 3 TiVos, one cannot make a truncated backup image of the original drive and then restore it to different drive.

The software which allows one to do that does not work with the Series 4 TiVos, of which the Premiere (with the 320GB drive) was the first.

TiVo changed something about the file and partition system that breaks the old MFS Live and WinMFS software.

Any shows recorded after you connected the external drive may be and probably are spread across both drives.

If you copy the original internal drive to another 320, then it should continue to work with the external just like the original internal drive did.

If you wish to discontine using the external, you'll have to let the TiVo perform a "divorce" before removing the internal and copying it to a replacement. This will cost you any shows recorded after the external drive was added.


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> If you replace the drive, you need to copy it to the new drive.
> 
> ...


You mentioned having to use "wdidle3" if I get the WD model but you didn't mention what I needed to use to copy the software to the new drive? Since I won't be using a PC, I don't know how to copy the information from the old drive into the new drive? Maybe there are instructions somewhere on hard drive replacements or upgrades that I can use?


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> You mentioned having to use "wdidle3" if I get the WD model but you didn't mention what I needed to use to copy the software to the new drive? Since I won't be using a PC, I don't know how to copy the information from the old drive into the new drive? Maybe there are instructions somewhere on hard drive replacements or upgrades that I can use?


Pardon me while I start to have a bad feeling about all of this.

If you won't be using a PC, how do you intend to copy the original drive to the new drive?


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> Pardon me while I start to have a bad feeling about all of this.
> 
> If you won't be using a PC, how do you intend to copy the original drive to the new drive?


No need to get a bad feeling since I have a PC but have never done this before so don't know how. Do you need to connect both hard drives to a PC and copy (old drive to new drive) before connecting to TiVo? I didn't think I could use a PC because I use Windows and thought all of this might be Linux based, am I wrong? Maybe you could point me to the instructions and I can look there?


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> No need to get a bad feeling since I have a PC but have never done this before so don't know how. Do you need to connect both hard drives to a PC and copy (old drive to new drive) before connecting to TiVo? I didn't think I could use a PC because I use Windows and thought all of this might be Linux based, am I wrong? Maybe you could point me to the instructions and I can look there?


Others have wrongly believed that you just put a blank drive in the TiVo and it takes care of putting the software on it.

It doesn't work that way.

(and wdidle3 is not put on the drive, it alters the firmware of a drive attached to a PC motherboard SATA controller port)

What you do is boot the PC with a bootable cd that loads a version of the Linux operating system into memory (RAM) which then controls the PC, and then use one of the programs which also get loaded to do a byte for byte copy from the original TiVo drive to the intended replacement.

If you're going to use a larger drive, you can use the jmfs cd v1.04 to do the copy and then enlarge into the extra space.

If the same size drive, I think you can use just the first part of what it does to do the copy.

Do not boot into Windows with the Premiere's drive attached.

If that PC has a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so, as there are steps that need to be taken to prevent it from screwing things up because of its tendency to put a Host Protected Area on attached drives.

And you use a bootable cd with wdidle3 on it that boots into a DOS environment.

Or you use the Ultimate Boot cd, which has wdidle3 on it (in addition to a bunch of other stuff, including the WD diagnostic software which you should run on any WD drive before putting it into service--never assume that new guarantees good)

Do you know how to burn a cd "as an image"?


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> ...
> 
> Do you know how to burn a cd "as an image"?


I've burned DVDs & CDs from .iso files if that's what you're asking? Otherwise, it seems more complicated than I imagined.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> I've burned DVDs & CDs from .iso files if that's what you're asking? Otherwise, it seems more complicated than I imagined.


The burning software you used should have an option to burn an .iso image as an image, rather than just as a file, and that will put the files inside the bootable cd image in the right places on the cd so that it's bootable.


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

unitron said:


> ...
> 
> You might want to look around for a less expensive 320, however, 'cause that one's mighty pricey for what you're getting.


How about going from a 320 GB drive to a 500 GB drive? Will this one work? It's only about $60.00.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Cache-Desktop/dp/B00461G3MS/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_t_1


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lujan said:


> How about going from a 320 GB drive to a 500 GB drive? Will this one work? It's only about $60.00.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Cache-Desktop/dp/B00461G3MS/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_t_1


It might, I think it's only Series 1 TiVos that don't like Caviar Blues, but...

As long as you aren't married to the idea of cloning the original drive to another of exactly the same size--320GB--, you might as well get the designed specifically for video recording and has a 3 year warranty instead of the Blue's 2 year warranty WD20EURS while Amazon still has it for only $100 w/free shipping

http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8

and never worry about running out of space.

We know that model works in Premieres.

Also available for the exact same money from newegg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783


----------

