# The Big Bang Theory - 11/08/2012 - The Habitation Configuration



## ScubaCat (Jun 26, 2003)

Long Island Iced Tea - the best tea EVER! 

Sheldon: Get the Mad Hatter on the horn, I'm having a tea party.
Penny: You might want to pace yourself.
Sheldon: I drink tea all the time. I think I know what I'm doing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amy: It's called "Fun with Flags." They're not at half-mast, nobody died. Let's try and keep it upbeat.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

An all around weird episode. Penny seems like a bitter drunk a bit. Serving the tea was a crime. AFF weirder than normal. Howard is pathetic. 

Instead of jumping the shark this show might drown under it


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I liked the Sheldon/ Will/AFF bit but the Howard moving out, moving in, moving out....that was sad.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Sheldon drunk was HYSTERICAL.


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## angbear1985 (Aug 25, 2006)

SeanC said:


> Sheldon drunk was HYSTERICAL.


:up:

Love drunk Sheldon!


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

I would happily watch this show if it were just Sheldon, Amy and occasionally a story line with Sheldon and Penny because that's a hilarious mix. And the guy who runs the comic book store.


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## global_dev (Mar 15, 2010)

YCantAngieRead said:


> I would happily watch this show if it were just Sheldon, Amy and occasionally a story line with Sheldon and Penny because that's a hilarious mix. And the guy who runs the comic book store.


i kind of like howard and koothrapali...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> An all around weird episode. Penny seems like a bitter drunk a bit. Serving the tea was a crime. AFF weirder than normal. Howard is pathetic.
> 
> Instead of jumping the shark this show might drown under it


Wow.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

mdougie said:


> An all around weird episode. Penny seems like a bitter drunk a bit. Serving the tea was a crime. AFF weirder than normal. Howard is pathetic.
> 
> Instead of jumping the shark this show might drown under it


Wow - are you sure you're not Al...... never mind.

"I still get lunch, right?"


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mdougie said:


> ...Penny seems like a bitter drunk....


?? I don't remember Penny being drunk in this ep at all...


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> ?? I don't remember Penny being drunk in this ep at all...


She looked sloppy and dirty and had a bad attitude.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

This show has the most intolerable laugh track of any show I have ever watched. It makes a mildly amusing show unwatchable.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> This show has the most intolerable laugh track of any show I have ever watched.


Here we go....


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

mdougie said:


> She looked sloppy and dirty and had a bad attitude.


I thought she looked very cute when she was clearly on the edge of laughter.

I bet there are some good blooper clips where she didn't keep it together.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

zordude said:


> I thought she looked very cute when she was clearly on the edge of laughter...


I agree...I don't know where anybody could think that was a "bitter drunk"...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Overall a weak episode. Didn't like the Howard/Bernie plot. ENOUGH with his attachment with his mother. WE GET IT. Move on to something NEW.

Thought the LI-Iced Tea bit was funny.


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## crashfistfight (Feb 2, 2007)

Did anyone else notice the number on Will Wheaton's house...1701


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

mdougie said:


> She looked sloppy and dirty and had a bad attitude.


She said it herself. She's a bad waitress.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that she's a bitter drunk.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

We enjoyed the episode. Although I thought the stuff with AFF trying to direct was a little contrived. There's a better solution to that issue that's not Sheldon fully agreeing with either of them, but instead pulling Amy aside and telling her to tone it down since it's his web show and he's already produced several episodes without her help.

But I can forgive that bit of plot contrivance if it leads to Sheldon slamming several ounces of alcohol and becoming drunk.

I'm so sick of Howard's mother. That whole thing is just pathetic. I wish the writers could divorce themselves from that cheap crutch. Howard is now married and he should be moving in with his wife. Howard is already an extremely pathetic character. They don't need to make him even worse by having him want to continue living in his childhood bedroom instead of moving in with his WIFE!!!


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm so sick of Howard's mother. That whole thing is just pathetic. I wish the writers could divorce themselves from that cheap crutch. Howard is now married and he should be moving in with his wife. Howard is already an extremely pathetic character. They don't need to make him even worse by having him want to continue living in his childhood bedroom instead of moving in with his WIFE!!!


I tend to agree with the sentiment. But at the very end we got a little bit to indicate that Howard staying at home wasn't 100% to have his meals cooked and laundry done. We never see his mom, so we've never got any of her perspective on the relationship before. For all his less-than-kind comments about her, we got a suggestion this week that Howard does care for his mother and was concerned about leaving her home all alone. Now if he could just get the guy who was climbing out the window when he came home unexpectedly ( the butcher?) to see his mom more, then she wouldn't be alone and he could move on with Bernadette.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I enjoyed the episode. 

I have absolutely no idea what the heck mdougie is talking about. I don't get the "sloppy" or "dirty" comment, and Penny wasn't drunk at all during this episode. About the only thing that can be said is that she was a little snarkier than she's been in a bit, but that's all, and that's nothing that's terribly out of character for her. 

As for Howard being pathetic, and the thing about him moving out then moving back in, I believe on a sitcom like BBT, they are *never* going to move too far from the basic formula. They might add an extra ingredient or two, such as when they added Amy Farrah Fowler and Bernadette, but the basics of the show won't change too far. Raj will always be the guy who can't talk to women without drinking, Penny and Leonard will always have an on-again/off-again relationship... and Howard will always be the boy-man who has a weird attachment to his mother. He's always going to be pathetic.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I have absolutely no idea what the heck mdougie is talking about.


Who?

I don't see anyone by that name in this thread.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Wow - are you sure you're not Al...... never mind.
> 
> "I still get lunch, right?"


Lunch it is.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

verdugan said:


> She said it herself. She's a bad waitress.
> 
> I wouldn't go as far as to say that she's a bitter drunk.


She looked hung over. She has an alcoholic personality as a character. While not Chelsea Handler gross&#8230; yet, it's on the way. The disregard for the feelings or safety of her friends was just not the actions of a good person. Drugging Sheldon? Granted Howard is a tool, but penny acted in a demeaning way.
That's not Penny season one. She was an optimistic good person. Penny season whatever this is... is a mean spirited drunk.

A hot lovable mean sprinted drunk though.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

mdougie said:


> She looked hung over. She has an alcoholic personality as a character. While not Chelsea Handler gross yet, its on the way. The disregard for the feelings or safety of her friends was just not the actions of a good person. Drugging Sheldon? Granted Howard is a tool, but penny acted in a demeaning way.
> That's not Penny season one. She was an optimistic good person. Penny season whatever this is... is a mean spirited drunk.
> 
> A hot lovable mean sprinted drunk though.


I'm waiting for the "bazinga".


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

If I had to deal with Sheldon everyday, that's how I would be as well.

I thought Penny was the funniest she's been in a while...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> She looked hung over. She has an alcoholic personality as a character. While not Chelsea Handler gross... yet, it's on the way. The disregard for the feelings or safety of her friends was just not the actions of a good person. Drugging Sheldon? Granted Howard is a tool, but penny acted in a demeaning way.
> That's not Penny season one. She was an optimistic good person. Penny season whatever this is... is a mean spirited drunk.
> 
> A hot lovable mean sprinted drunk though.


Drugged?


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> Drugged?


Isn't it that what you call it when someone gives you a mind altering drug in your drink with out you knowing about it?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> Isn't it that what you call it when someone gives you a mind altering drug in your drink with out you knowing about it?


She served him a drink at a bar. She told him the name of it. She tried to tell him it was alcohol.

Drugged. Wow.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

mdougie said:


> Isn't it that what you call it when someone gives you a mind altering drug in your drink with out you knowing about it?


you can't be serious.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> She served him a drink at a bar. She told him the name of it. She tried to tell him it was alcohol.
> 
> Drugged. Wow.


She didn't try to tell him there was alcohol. She knows very well he would refuse. She tricked him, hence she drugged him.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> She didn't try to tell him there was alcohol. She knows very well he would refuse. She tricked him, hence she drugged him.


You are sad.

And you are full of it. She was telling him when he scolded her and said he knew how to drink tea.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> You are sad.
> 
> And you are full of it. She was telling him when he scolded her and said he knew how to drink tea.


Why does any of it make me sad?

The premise was that she tricked him into it as far as I could tell. Drugged may be strong, but there isn't a special word for tricking people into drinking. What if she tricked him into eating a pot brownie?

Penny is just a darker character these days imho


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

So something I've always wondered.

Does LI Iced Tea taste like iced tea at all?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TampaThunder said:


> I'm waiting for the "bazinga".


It ain't gonna come cuz Dougie is one mean drunk...(or maybe a druggie)....


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

YCantAngieRead said:


> So something I've always wondered.
> 
> Does LI Iced Tea taste like iced tea at all?


Yes it does.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> It ain't gonna come cuz Dougie is one mean drunk...(or maybe a druggie)....


bazinga.


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

YCantAngieRead said:


> So something I've always wondered.
> 
> Does LI Iced Tea taste like iced tea at all?


Every one I ever had tasted too much like alcohol to ever be confused with a regular ice tea. Sheldon, presumably never having had an hard liquor, could conceivably not recognize the taste.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

mdougie said:


> Yes it does.


At this point, I have no idea if you're serious or not.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

YCantAngieRead said:


> At this point, I have no idea if you're serious or not.


A well made long island iced tea actually tastes like iced tea. All the different ingredients balance. The drink is deadly strong with almost no bite, and tastes great.

I am serious.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

YCantAngieRead said:


> At this point, I have no idea if you're serious or not.


A well made LIIT does take like iced tea. A poorly made one does not.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Huh. I love iced tea.

Maybe I shouldn't even try it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Rosincrans said:


> Every one I ever had tasted too much like alcohol to ever be confused with a regular ice tea. Sheldon, presumably never having had an hard liquor, could conceivably not recognize the taste.


You must have missed the episode where he got a shot of something and spit it back into the glass several times It was funny the first, maybe even the 2nd time.. not the 3rd.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mdougie said:


> A well made long iced tea actually tastes like iced tea. All the different ingredients balance. The drink is deadly strong with almost no bite, and tastes great.


This. I have had many of them over the years and a good one will taste like ice tea while a bad one has a odd twisty taste that you can tell it's off and that's the alcohol.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

While in college, working at my university during the summer months, we would hit a local pub for happy hour that had unlimited pigs in a blanket and LI Ice Tea pitchers for like $5.

After a couple of hours, we would walk out of there more blottoed than I can even remember.

Yes, LIIT, when made perfectly, you can't tell there's any alcohol in them.

And no, Penny wasn't drugging Sheldon. He's an adult, at a bar, getting a drink from the bartender. Presumably, he could see in plain sight what she was putting into the drink. He's also not an idiot, and would know that a "Long Island Ice Tea" is the name of a VERY common alcoholic drink.

And Penny was neither drunk nor bitter in this episode. Just Penny.

In other words, don't feed the trollmdougie.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Hank said:


> [Sheldon] would know that a "Long Island Ice Tea" is the name of a VERY common alcoholic drink.


This part is incorrect I think.

Z


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

zordude said:


> This part is incorrect I think.
> 
> Z


If Sheldon knows the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow, I think he'd know what a Long Island Ice Tea is.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

you peeps that think LI tastes like iced tea must think that Dr Pepper and Coke taste alike or more likely you're judging the taste after your third one.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> If Sheldon knows the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow, I think he'd know what a Long Island Ice Tea is.


African or European?


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Hank said:


> And no, Penny wasn't drugging Sheldon. He's an adult, at a bar, getting a drink from the bartender.
> 
> 
> > By, at the bar, do you mean cheescake factory?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

mdougie said:


> Hank said:
> 
> 
> > And no, Penny wasn't drugging Sheldon. He's an adult, at a bar, getting a drink from the bartender.
> ...


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Hank said:


> If Sheldon knows the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow, I think he'd know what a Long Island Ice Tea is.


Excessive knowledge in one area does not imply knowledge in all areas. Sheldon is not social and does not know many "normal" things. We know that Sheldon doesn't drink alcohol. Had he knows that Long Island Ice Tea was an alcoholic beverage, he would have refused it.

That's why Penny never, ever, told him, or used the word "alcohol" or "alcoholic". The entire scene breaks down if Sheldon learns it's an alcoholic beverage.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm really curious what show mdougie was watching, because it really doesn't seem like he watched the same episode as the rest of us.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Excessive knowledge in one area does not imply knowledge in all areas. Sheldon is not social and does not know many "normal" things. We know that Sheldon doesn't drink alcohol. Had he knows that Long Island Ice Tea was an alcoholic beverage, he would have refused it.
> 
> That's why Penny never, ever, told him, or used the word "alcohol" or "alcoholic". The entire scene breaks down if Sheldon learns it's an alcoholic beverage.


Of course. And if she intentionally keeps it from him, that's mean spirited. But since she tried to tell him and he blew her off by saying he was very familiar with tea, he's no longer a victim and it's funny again.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course. And if she intentionally keeps it from him, that's mean spirited. But since she tried to tell him and he blew her off by saying he was very familiar with tea, he's no longer a victim and it's funny again.


Thank you. This is a COMEDY show. Not a serious analysis of the human psyche.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm really curious what show mdougie was watching, because it really doesn't seem like he watched the same episode as the rest of us.


It was just what I thought of when I watched.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Sheldon knew enough about drinks to order a virgin Cuba Libre in an earlier episode. Penny gave him a few that weren't virgin.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Wow, this ep brings back some memories. Way back in the day, a friend suggested going for drinks after work. It was a hot August night and I had my first LIIT. I slurped the first one down pretty much like Sheldon did. It didn't hit me until about halfway through my second drink. What an eye opener.

Fortunately, there was a designated driver that night.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm really curious what show mdougie was watching, because it really doesn't seem like he watched the same episode as the rest of us.


He must have had to0 many iced teas...


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## macery (Sep 6, 2004)

I'm curious if anyone else had a hard time with this episode because of one of the cameras? I saw it in a number of different scenes either they used a different camera for the wider shots, or had a different filter on it but when they would switch to a wide shot I had vertical lines in the entire shot. I was terrible, but just enough that my eyes saw them and kept pulling me "out" of the show.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Ment said:


> you peeps that think LI tastes like iced tea must think that Dr Pepper and Coke taste alike or more likely you're judging the taste after your third one.


You have just never had one made properly. I've had plenty of bad ones that tasted like swamp water (you know when you are at a self serve soda fountain and you put a little bit of every flavor into the cup) but a bartender that knows what they are doing can make it oh so good.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I've had LIIT that you could not distinguish from regular iced tea.
A bit _too_ good IMO.

Had to come and see what drove up the post count overnight, haha.
Especially enjoyed this:


Hank said:


>


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

The best LIITs I have had taste more like coca cola than iced tea. They are smooth but you can still tell they are alcoholic. It is hard to tell how strong a good one actually is as they are very potent. But I've never thought one tasted like iced tea.


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## Agatha Mystery (Feb 12, 2002)

One thing that bothers me lately is Penny's hair color. When they pull it back off her face, it just looks wrong. Whoever did her highlights did them poorly. It makes her hair look dirty.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Re: The Sheldon/Penny/LIT thing -

I just watched the episode last night AFTER reading this thread and, whether or not she set out to trick him, she very clearly did NOT say anything about the alcohol. Initially she warned him to slow it down but didn't elaborate on that. I think that, had she chosen to tell him that there was alcohol in there, she knows Sheldon well enough to know how naive he is about these things and would have been very specific in her warnings. OTOH, perhaps it just didn't occur to her that he needed further warning.

I like drunk Sheldon also. 

I found it odd that Raj and Leonard were hardly in the episode at all.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

I think she suggested LIIT as a joke, thinking he would know what one was. But when he didn't, she went with it.

To me, it felt a little like in Friends when Joey was considering another stage name.


> Chandler: Joe... Joe... Joe... Stalin?
> Joey: Stalin. Stalin. Do I know that name? It sounds familiar.
> Chandler: Well, it does not ring a bell with me.
> Joey: Joe Stalin. You know, that's pretty good.
> ...


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm really curious what show mdougie was watching, because it really doesn't seem like he watched the same episode as the rest of us.


His TV is made by Troll corporation. Its patented troll-vision mode distords things just enough that they are unrecognizable to a normal person.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, I guess I have to be with the troll on this one. As far as I'm concerned, giving a non-drinker alcohol and getting him drunk without his knowledge and consent is thoroughly reprehensible and unforgivable.

Especially when the non-drinker is, in many ways, a vulnerable adult.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, I guess I have to be with the troll on this one. As far as I'm concerned, giving a non-drinker alcohol and getting him drunk without his knowledge and consent is thoroughly reprehensible and unforgivable.
> 
> Especially when the non-drinker is, in many ways, a vulnerable adult.


Sigh.

It is not like she roofied him. She offered him a well known drink at a BAR. as a BARTENDER.

This is so stupid.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> It is not like she roofied him. She offered him a well known drink at a BAR. as a BARTENDER.
> 
> This is so stupid.


This. Personal responsibility for what he ingests is on Sheldon.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

She's openly given him alcohol before.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

He's broken into her apartment in the middle of the night... I say he deserves some retribution!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> If Sheldon knows the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow, I think he'd know what a Long Island Ice Tea is.


Oh, really? What science fiction or fantasy film or book features a Long Island Ice Tea?

How else do you think he would have been exposed to it? His family certainly wouldn't have ordered any in a bar.

This whole argument is ridiculous anyway.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

It isn't supposed to be an argument. 
This is a discussion about a tv show and its characters and their development and direction. 

I am saying Penny has changed most since season one and not for the best. 

Sheldon is from a protective religious family. He is not a drinker. That she served him is troubling. 

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but this isn't the only point I brought up. She was not nice to Howard. Her drinking is featured a lot. She looks dirty. Still a waitress. 

I hope they bring Penny back to being a happy optimistic person


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> It is not like she roofied him. She offered him a well known drink at a BAR. as a BARTENDER.
> 
> This is so stupid.


It isn't that we'll known of a drink. Also, it is also well known that it is a great drink to buy a nieve person to get them really wasted more than they would agree to.

A long island has 4 shots.

I know personally it works. There was this silly Russian woman I met at a bar once. She was joking how weak American drinks were. I ordered her one and said from now on just say long island. In 2 hours she was being carried out.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

mdougie said:


> It isn't supposed to be an argument.
> This is a discussion about a tv show and its characters and their development and direction.
> 
> I am saying Penny has changed most since season one and not for the best.
> ...


Your friends really need to do an intervention and take your TV away from you. "Not nice to Howard." Everybody on the show is snarky with everybody else. "Her drinking is featured a lot." Yes, she might be drinking in a lot of the scenes she's in. But featured? A bit of an overstatement. Now if she's arrested for DUI in an upcoming episode I just might see your point. "She looks dirty." Maybe you just need to clean your glasses. "Still a waitress." ????? Why is this an issue? Is she less of a person because she's still a waitress?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TampaThunder said:


> Your friends really need to do an intervention and take your TV away from you. "Not nice to Howard." Everybody on the show is snarky with everybody else. "Her drinking is featured a lot." Yes, she might be drinking in a lot of the scenes she's in. But featured? A bit of an overstatement. Now if she's arrested for DUI in an upcoming episode I just might see your point. "She looks dirty." Maybe you just need to clean your glasses. "Still a waitress." ????? Why is this an issue? Is she less of a person because she's still a waitress?


I'd say Raj drinks a lot more than Penny. Or he'd be a lot more quiet.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I could be wrong, I saw 2 episodes of BBT yesterday, but didn't Penny say at least 2-3 times that she hates her job? Maybe she was just playing off that.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mdougie said:


> She was not nice to Howard.


She's NEVER been nice to Howard. Howard's been a creep the entire run of the show, why should she be nice to him? She tolerates him because he's a friend of a friend.


> Her drinking is featured a lot.


So?


> She looks dirty.


Still have no idea what this means.


> Still a waitress.


So?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> It is not like she roofied him. She offered him a well known drink at a BAR. as a BARTENDER.


Since Penny is a "friend" of Sheldon's you would expect a little more of her. On the other hand, I'm sure she watched over him and made sure he got home safely.

I never drink at all and never go into bars, but I've heard of LIiT. Didn't know that it was an exceptionally strong drink until now. The things I learn on this forum. 

I think Penny is a very nice, generous person. She spends time with Howard, sings to Sheldon, and AFF thinks she's her best friend. Most of us would have thrown them out and changed the locks years ago.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

stellie93 said:


> Since Penny is a "friend" of Sheldon's you would expect a little more of her. On the other hand, I'm sure she watched over him and made sure he got home safely.
> 
> .


Per his interaction with will wheaten we know he took the bus. Penny has a car. She ditched him after he chugged a min 8 shots.

I think Penny has become a darker character.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mdougie said:


> Per his interaction with will wheaten we know he took the bus. Penny has a car. She ditched him after he chugged a min 8 shots.
> 
> I think Penny has become a darker character.


What in the world has you being so amazingly pessimistic on this show? you keep hammering on the same points even when the majority of other viewers saw nothing of the sort.

If all you're going to do is come in and threadcrap and harp on Penny for something that doesn't seem to have been seen by anyone else I question if you're just here to troll.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

So, a proper LIIT is made with four shots. How do you know Penny made it that way? Maybe she just used one shot because she knows Sheldon isn't a big drinker.

Just my 2¢. Being a fictional TV show it really doesn't matter to me.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Instead of going to Wil's, I would have liked to see him go to Amy's, ready for a little action, and then pass out on her couch.

Now that's comedy.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Heh... what I didn't know until just now is that LIIT isn't actually iced tea at all.  I always assumed it was literally iced tea with liquor mixed in.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Heh... what I didn't know until just now is that LIIT isn't actually iced tea at all.  I always assumed it was literally iced tea with liquor mixed in.


You aren't the only one. I didn't know what was in it until I looked it up.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

LoadStar said:


> Heh... what I didn't know until just now is that LIIT isn't actually iced tea at all.  I always assumed it was literally iced tea with liquor mixed in.


well then it'd taste like iced tea...whats the fun in that.


----------



## global_dev (Mar 15, 2010)

mdougie said:


> Sheldon is from a protective religious family. He is not a drinker. That she served him is troubling.


IIRC his father drank plenty. he had plenty of wine at a physics conference when he mooned the audience. he drank enough to pay a song from fiddler on the roof at that restaurant on a keyboard. he had a shot that he spit out 4x (mentioned above) another time.

I am pretty sure he didn't realize the LI iced tea was alcoholic (and IRL probably this would be probably not moral, but this not IRL and is a situational comedy on TV) and he wasn't ready to listen, but he was talking to the bartender at a bar in a restaurant, watching her make the drink, and it was comedic set-up.

hopefully Howard is moving out of his mom's house in the next episode and we don't have to here about his mom anymore or as much...

AFF was a bit annoying lately also, since they upped their relationship.

I am hoping for some refreshing themes soon...


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

dianebrat said:


> What in the world has you being so amazingly pessimistic on this show? you keep hammering on the same points even when the majority of other viewers saw nothing of the sort.
> 
> If all you're going to do is come in and threadcrap and harp on Penny for something that doesn't seem to have been seen by anyone else I question if you're just here to troll.


I'm not pessimistic on the show. I like it. That's why I continue to watch. I am hammering the same points because they are the best examples I could find in this latest episode.

Actually they have addressed my same points in the show its self in the twister episode as best I can remember.

AFF and Bernadete commented that she is becomming a mean drunk or something to that effect.

Anyways, I think they are going to have to have an intervention episode for Penny.


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

mdougie said:


> Anyways, I think they are going to have to have an intervention episode for Penny.


I think you're going to be waiting for that episode for a very long time.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It's interesting...for a while, they made a point of showing how much Penny drinks. It seemed like they were headed towards doing something with it. But it's been a while since I've noticed that, so I guess it's just a dropped plot thread.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

SeanC said:


> I think you're going to be waiting for that episode for a very long time.


Either that or we get to watch Penny endlessly decline. Have her get an acting job so she can wear makeup and hot clothes. Have her be happy.

They already have celebrities in the context of the show why not have Penny become a celebrity?

That could lead to funny Koothrappali meets hot women situations.

I have seen enough frumpy grumpy Penny I want hot penny.

Yes to this










No to this.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I don't think I've had a Long Island Iced Tea since I was a teenager drinking underage. It was one of those drinks that I heard that "adults" drink, but I can't remember the last time I was with someone who ordered one.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Was Raj in the episode at all?


----------



## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

I came from an extremely religious household. I don't care how well mixed that alcohol would have been, I could have tasted it.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mdougie said:


> ....Sheldon is from a protective religious family. He is not a drinker. _* That she served him is troubling. *_...


Seriously!? SERIOUSLY!?!?!? Wow.....


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Was Raj in the episode at all?


Not that I recall. I think Penny had drugged him just before the first Fun with Flags taping.


----------



## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Maybe he was helping Howard move.
But i don't remember if he had any lines.


----------



## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

The episode was still on my DVR so I ran it back because I was curious. Raj was only in the Howard moving scene and he said:

- Wow, the end of an era. 

- When did you figure out you were allergic to nuts?



Heck, even I could have learned those lines.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> It is not like she roofied him. She offered him a well known drink at a BAR. as a BARTENDER.
> 
> This is so stupid.


She isn't just a bartender, Sheldon knows her to be his friend and trusts her. And she knows he does not drink alcohol but loves tea. If he mentions he would like some tea and she tells him she has one called Long Island, you can can expect him to assume it is not alcoholic. I compare this to a trusted friend who knows I am a vegetarian feeding me something non-vegetarian when they fully know that I have assumed it is. If I were eating in a restaurant I would be vigilant about what I ate; not so much if a friend is feeding me. In the real world this would be bad behavior. But it's a TV show.


----------



## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

mdougie said:


> She looked hung over. She has an alcoholic personality as a character. While not Chelsea Handler gross yet, its on the way. The disregard for the feelings or safety of her friends was just not the actions of a good person. Drugging Sheldon? Granted Howard is a tool, but penny acted in a demeaning way.
> That's not Penny season one. She was an optimistic good person. Penny season whatever this is... is a mean spirited drunk.
> 
> A hot lovable mean sprinted drunk though.


Disagree in so many ways. :down:


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

global_dev said:


> *(and IRL probably this would be probably not moral, but this not IRL and is a situational comedy on TV)*


*global_dev* makes an excellent point.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Cearbhaill said:


> global_dev makes an excellent point.


In real life not only was it immoral but also a felony


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

mdougie said:


> In real life not only was it immoral but also a felony


Whatever you do, do NOT watch any reruns of The Three Stooges!!!


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

mdougie said:


> In real life not only was it immoral but also a felony


I doubt that.

If I walk up to a bar and the bartender says "Try our special -Tropical Hurricane" and I just say yes, there are no laws she has broken just because I didn't ask what was in it.


----------



## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

mdougie said:


> In real life not only was it immoral but also a felony


It's a felony to serve someone a drink at a bar?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I was going to respond to this ridiculous discussion, but instead, I'll just post this:


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Yes it's just a TV show. However Penny deliberately served alcohol to Sheldon shall not know that he was drinking it. 

And multiple strong drinks.

Yes, it's just a TV show.

What again what we do here? Talk about TV shows.

And I agree that this makes Penny a crappy friend. And it's possible she did commit a crime.

Go ahead and call me a troll too

Dictated from my iPhone.


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I am loath to get on either side of this argument but I do have a comment.

It just seems clear to me that in this particular instance of show writing that what Penny did was just to serve the larger purpose of more laughs.

Sheldon won't be taking offense and no charges will be filed against Penny, so to me the whole "how bad is Penny serving alcohol to an unknowning Sheldon" is a complete waste of time.

And finally, drinks that are made with alcohol for those of us who do not normally drink alcohol, we can ALWAYS taste the alcohol. Those of you who drink alcohol at least a few times a year are differently acclimated to it. Take it from a guy who has been told probably hundreds of times "but you can't taste the alcohol!"

Yes I can, it's awful, I can always taste it.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Flop said:


> It's a felony to serve someone a drink at a bar?


Depends on motivation and context.


----------



## Lillian Nyx (Jun 26, 2012)

I rarely drink, and I can barely taste the alcohol in a well-made LIIT. That's why I stay away from them - they are tasty and it's really easy to drink too many of them. My first exposure to them was a going-away party when everybody kept buying them for me. I didn't know how many shots were in them till I looked up the recipe some days later. All I knew at the time was how drunk they were making me.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Lillian Nyx said:


> My first exposure to them was a going-away party when everybody kept buying them for me. I didn't know how many shots were in them till I looked up the recipe some days later. All I knew at the time was how drunk they were making me.


That's a felony. You should have had your friends arrested.

Unless of course you're just a character on a sitcom.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

macery said:


> I'm curious if anyone else had a hard time with this episode because of one of the cameras? I saw it in a number of different scenes either they used a different camera for the wider shots, or had a different filter on it but when they would switch to a wide shot I had vertical lines in the entire shot. I was terrible, but just enough that my eyes saw them and kept pulling me "out" of the show.


I noticed this too. It seems they forgot to take off the filter they used to make "Fun with Flags" seem more low tech. The vertical lines in some of the shots were quite noticeable. It was more annoying to me then Penny giving Sheldon the alcohol.


----------



## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

So the take-home message I get from this discussion is: Penny may be a bad waitress(her words, or something to that effect), but she is really really super good at mixing a LIIT.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

I think there is confusion. I am discussing Penny in the context of the show not in the context of it being a show. 

Yes it's a show, but in the universe of BBT I think what she did was wrong. I only pointed to this act in the larger point that Penny has changed for the worse as the show has progressed. 

The penny that sang soft kitty and cares for Sheldon from season 2 would not trick him into drinking then send him off on his own. Imho


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

I guess I'm scum, because in the right situation I could see myself doing what Penny did, just to mess with somebody.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Langree said:


> I guess I'm scum, because in the right situation I could see myself doing what Penny did, just to mess with somebody.


Ok let's pretend.

So you're a bartender. A friend comes in who doesn't drink and asks for tea. You serve long island.

Your friend gets wasted and leaves.

Who does the law hold responsible if say your friend gets in a car wreck? What if your wasted friend gets off the bus in a bad area and is mugged or worse. Who is responsible?


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

She tried to warn him, and he blew her off. He is responsible.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

eddyj said:


> She tried to warn him, and he blew her off. He is responsible.


Actually even if he knew there was booze in the drink she still is as well as cheesecake factory.

Also she just said slow down and didn't mention alcohol.

Over serving is always the bartenders fault. That she didn't tell him it contains alcohol makes it much worse.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

eddyj said:


> She tried to warn him, and he blew her off. He is responsible.


yep, I'm there with you, she did try and he kept shushing her away with his more knowledgeable than thou attitude, he earned those drinks. I'd also pull that on a friend if I knew they weren't in danger of driving, and since we know Sheldon doesn't drive or own a car, we're safe there.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

mdougie said:


> Ok let's pretend.
> 
> So you're a bartender. A friend comes in who doesn't drink and asks for tea. You serve long island.
> 
> ...


I said in the right situation.

Being on duty as a bartender is not the time.

You really do need to lighten up.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Langree said:


> I said in the right situation.
> 
> Being on duty as a bartender is not the time.
> 
> You really do need to lighten up.


Ok I will lighten up. Although I don't think I am not lightened up.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mdougie said:


> I have seen enough frumpy grumpy Penny I want hot penny.
> 
> Yes to this
> 
> ...


I prefer normal Penny as a person, and apparently Leonard is ok with that too, however this opens up a much bigger discussion of the hypersexualization of women in the media and I'm more than happy to get all annoyingly feminist about this should anyone want to discuss it more 

I'm sorry but the Maxim cover isn't about a normal person, it's about a sex object, I prefer watching real people in sitcoms when possible, especially if they have flaws.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

dianebrat said:


> I prefer normal Penny as a person, and apparently Leonard is ok with that too, however this opens up a much bigger discussion of the hypersexualization of women in the media and I'm more than happy to get all annoyingly feminist about this should anyone want to discuss it more
> 
> I'm sorry but the Maxim cover isn't about a normal person, it's about a sex object, I prefer watching real people in sitcoms when possible, especially if they have flaws.


If you ignore the bottle of tequila, wine, airline bottle of vodka and other booze on the table.

It wasn't about the sexy nature of the pic. She looked good vs sad drunk in sweat pants.

I guess I should have chosen a different picture but my point remains


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

mdougie said:


> If you ignore the bottle of tequila, wine, airline bottle of vodka and other booze on the table.
> 
> It wasn't about the sexy nature of the pic. She looked good vs sad drunk in sweat pants.
> 
> I guess I should have chosen a different picture but my point remains


An alcoholic woman must have really hurt you.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This thread is hilarious...






....of course, I may also be drunk....


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> This thread is hilarious...
> 
> ....of course, I may also be drunk....


Let's just hope no one gave you that drink. They may have committed a felony.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

For all of you who say Penny hasn't changed I encouraged you to watch seasons 1, 2, 3 on TBS. 

Penny was just delightful.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Penny moved to California to become an actress but she's been a waitress without a real break for six years. She's in a relationship that she doesn't seem to know where she wants it to go. Her groups of friends is all more successful than she is and also much smarter. That's bound to make someone a bit cranky.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I don't watch BBT, but I need to go make a drink now.


And to be sure, it won't be mistaken for something that isn't a drink.


----------



## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't watch BBT, but I need to go make a drink now.
> 
> And to be sure, it won't be mistaken for something that isn't a drink.


I'll take one too.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'd like some tea, please.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> I'd like some tea, please.


I think they have some down to the southwest...


----------



## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> This show has the most intolerable laugh track of any show I have ever watched. It makes a mildly amusing show unwatchable.


I really hate the laugh tracks on all sitcoms, but it doesn't stop me from watching this wonderful show. 
I wish that you could turn off laugh tracks like you can turn on closed caption. Like some shows are in Spanish now so they could also have the audio without laugh tracks. I would really love that. And if not that, then when you buy the DVDs then have a option to turn off the laugh tracks. 
I have never forgiven Bing Crosby for inventing laugh tracks. Such a wonderful man, yet the only way he lives on in my mind is because of irritating laugh tracks.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

replaytv said:


> I really hate the laugh tracks on all sitcoms, but it doesn't stop me from watching this wonderful show.
> I wish that you could turn off laugh tracks like you can turn on closed caption. Like some shows are in Spanish now so they could also have the audio without laugh tracks. I would really love that. And if not that, then when you buy the DVDs then have a option to turn off the laugh tracks.
> I have never forgiven Bing Crosby for inventing laugh tracks. Such a wonderful man, yet the only way he lives on in my mind is because of irritating laugh tracks.


[laugh track rant]
There's only one problem, the "laugh track" that you refer to and that was invented by Charles Douglass isn't used on this show.

A "laugh track" is previously recorded laughter overlaid on a performance that did not have an audience. BBT and most sitcoms have a live studio audience and the laughter you hear is from them, the producers will sweeten the laughter by remixing it at times, but it's not a laugh track, it's the real studio audience from that perfoirmance.
[/laugh track rant]


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> I'd like some tea, please.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think they have some down to the southwest...


I hear there's a section of New York that makes a really mean tea also....


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> I hear there's a section of New York that makes a really mean tea also....


Hmmm...where is that in relation to Boston?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mdougie said:


> I think there is confusion. I am discussing Penny in the context of the show not in the context of it being a show.
> 
> Yes it's a show, but in the universe of BBT I think what she did was wrong. I only pointed to this act in the larger point that Penny has changed for the worse as the show has progressed.
> 
> The penny that sang soft kitty and cares for Sheldon from season 2 would not trick him into drinking then send him off on his own. Imho


Yes, Penny has become more cynical since the show started. She came to LA to be an actress, and in the several years she's been there, she hasn't booked a single gig. She hates her job. Of course she's changed for the worse.

But she's not dirty or a mean-spirited drunk. She's simply much more comfortable with Sheldon now, and is able to dish out some snarkiness rather than simply being the brunt of all his insensitive comments like she was early in the series. I see her serving of the drink to him in this episode as simply an extension of her now being comfortable enough with him that she dished something back at him

And don't forget that she was at work, so it's not like she could accompany Sheldon when he decided to leave.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, Penny has become more cynical since the show started. She came to LA to be an actress, and in the several years she's been there, she hasn't booked a single gig.


Nope. She filmed a hemorrhoid commercial.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

mdougie said:


> For all of you who say Penny hasn't changed I encouraged you to watch seasons 1, 2, 3 on TBS.
> 
> Penny was just delightful.


She gave Sheldon "slutty" Cuba Libres in Season 1.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mdougie said:


> Per his interaction with will wheaten we know he took the bus. Penny has a car. She ditched him after he chugged a min 8 shots.
> 
> I think Penny has become a darker character.


While I kind of agree with you about Penny giving Sheldon alcohol, and she should have known better than to even offer it to him, knowing he doesn't drink, I really don't think she's any different than she always has been. In fact, I think S1 Penny would have been MORE likely to do this than this season's Penny, knowing back then she probably had more of a jaundiced attitude toward geeks than she does now.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Steveknj said:


> While I kind of agree with you about Penny giving Sheldon alcohol, and she should have known better than to even offer it to him, knowing he doesn't drink, I really don't think she's any different than she always has been. In fact, I think S1 Penny would have been MORE likely to do this than this season's Penny, knowing back then she probably had more of a jaundiced attitude toward geeks than she does now.


hmm. ok that's a pretty good point.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> In real life not only was it immoral but also a felony


Now that is idiotic.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Now that is idiotic.


Isn't calling him idiotic a felony?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> She gave Sheldon "slutty" Cuba Libres in Season 1.


A repeat felon!!!


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Isn't calling him idiotic a felony?


If I actually called him idiotic, maybe. But I called his statement idiotic. Inferring he was being an idiot.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Isn't calling him idiotic a felony?


Depends if he is covered by the ADA or not.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

zordude said:


> Depends if he is covered by the ADA or not.


Well, that's idiotic.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> Now that is idiotic.


No actually in real life the laws regarding serving alcohol are very strict. In real life Penny committed a serious crime.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Yes it's just a TV show. However Penny deliberately served alcohol to Sheldon shall not know that he was drinking it.
> 
> And multiple strong drinks.
> 
> ...


 But they all do crappy things to each other. Things that, in the real world, real friends wouldn't do to each other but in a COMEDY, they do. Most comedies the characters do mean things/lie/steal/etc for the sake of the punchline.

Everyone on Friends would not have been talking to each other if we put real world morality/sensibilities into it.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

zordude said:


> I thought she looked very cute when she was clearly on the edge of laughter.
> 
> I bet there are some good blooper clips where she didn't keep it together.


 I take her almost laughs at in-character. She was laughing at sheldon's quick drunk reaction to the drink. She laughs at the guys cuz of her outlook on their way of life.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

NJChris said:


> But they all do crappy things to each other. Things that, in the real world, real friends wouldn't do to each other but in a COMEDY, they do. Most comedies the characters do mean things/lie/steal/etc for the sake of the punchline.
> 
> Everyone on Friends would not have been talking to each other if we put real world morality/sensibilities into it.


I just don't agree. In friends they never stopped caring, nor did anyone do anything to actually hurt one another outside of the Ross/Rachel bizarre relationship.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

NJChris said:


> I take her almost laughs at in-character. She was laughing at sheldon's quick drunk reaction to the drink. She laughs at the guys cuz of her outlook on their way of life.


I agree. Penny's chuckles are not the actress loosing control, but actually the character Penny's reactiuons to the other characters.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Once again.....this thread amuses me....


----------



## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Drunk Sheldon is hysterical. He was with slutty virgin Cuba Libres, and he is with Long Island Iced Teas.

That is all.


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

mdougie said:


> No actually in real life the laws regarding serving alcohol are very strict. In real life Penny committed a serious crime.


Someone walks into a bar and asks for a drink. Bartender offers a LIT, customer says ok, and starts drinking it claiming it is good, bartender tries to slow customer down saying its pretty strong. customer shuts bartender down saying "i know what I'm doing".

Yeah, I can see how a jury could go tough on the bartender...


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

And given that Sheldon does not drink, it was probably only two or three before he was plastered. Criminal behavior indeed!


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> No actually in real life the laws regarding serving alcohol are very strict. In real life Penny committed a serious crime.


Yes. She sold an adult customer an adult drink that is on the menu. A very serious crime.

You are reaching.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> Yes. She sold an adult customer an adult drink that is on the menu. A very serious crime.
> 
> You are reaching.


Bartenders are held to a higher standard. Just ask a bar owner. They are on the hook for drunks.

She got Sheldon drunk and let him go. On top of that Sheldon didn't even know he was drunk. He was impaired, and went to Will Wheaton's house to potentially fight. She hurt Sheldon. Sheldon is someone who can talk to Steven Hawking and yet Penny is stuck being a drunk?

Penny needs to move on with the other characters. A famous actress an be someone who can logically live next door to someone remaking the laws of Physics. As an actress she is believable as the neighbor to a super genius.

The show isn't about Lenard. Lenard is a putz.

Penny needs rehab. Penny's character should find success. She is pretty enough and talented enough
.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

mdougie said:


> Bartenders are held to a higher standard.


She's not very good at her job.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

This is among the dumber threads I've seen on this forum, and those of you who have been around as long as I have or longer, you know what an achievement that is.

That said: Penny knows that Sheldon does not drive. He wasn't drunk enough to hurt himself or others, and she knew that he would ride the bus home, meaning he'd get home relatively safely. She was a bartender, she served him a drink, he accepted it and drank it. End of subject.

And BTW, it's "Leonard," and the show is as much about him as it is about any of the other main characters.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Plus Sheldon got drunk in 20 seconds how's a bartender suppose to know that.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

mdougie said:


> Yes it does.


Not to someone that doesn't drink. Sheldon should have picked out the alcohol flavor immediately. I think they were just playing on the name and hoping that everyone would assume that it tasted the same or think so because people that drink can't tell the difference.


----------



## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Or maybe they were just going for the joke.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Drewster said:


> Or maybe they were just going for the joke.


Why would they do something like that?


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Drewster said:


> Or maybe they were just going for the joke.


You're in the wrong thread 
You're looking for the "makes so much sense a blind man could see it" thread.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Drewster said:


> Or maybe they were just going for the joke.


True.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Drewster said:


> Or maybe they were just going for the joke.


Tragedy makes good comedy


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

mdougie said:


> Tragedy makes good comedy


Not when the comedy is savagely beaten out of it.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

scooterboy said:


> Not when the comedy is savagely beaten out of it.


Oh please... Have an iced tea and watch the episode again.


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

This thread is pure comedy.


----------



## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Drewster said:


> Drunk Sheldon is hysterical. He was with slutty virgin Cuba Libres, and he is with Long Island Iced Teas.
> 
> That is all.


Don't forget wine and Uranus!


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

mdougie said:


> Oh please... Have an iced tea and watch the episode again.


No need - I thoroughly enjoyed it the first time, TYVM.

You're the one who had a problem with Penny's actions - perhaps you need the Iced Tea and re-watch more than I.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mdougie said:


> Bartenders are held to a higher standard. Just ask a bar owner. They are on the hook for drunks.
> 
> She got Sheldon drunk and let him go. On top of that Sheldon didn't even know he was drunk. He was impaired, and went to Will Wheaton's house to potentially fight. She hurt Sheldon. Sheldon is someone who can talk to Steven Hawking and yet Penny is stuck being a drunk?
> 
> ...


She served a guy who doesn't drive all of two drinks? Give it up. No one is going to be convicted for selling two drinks to a customer. I've seen people walk out of the bar every night far drinker than Sheldon.

You live in a fantasy world.


----------



## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> She served a guy who doesn't drive all of two drinks? Give it up. No one is going to be convicted for selling two drinks to a customer. I've seen people walk out of the bar every night far drinker than Sheldon.
> 
> You live in a fantasy world.


 I find your non understanding of reality regarding the law in this matter to be perplexing.

Like many things, it all depends on the consequences.


----------



## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> You live in a fantasy world.


Or a dry, litigious county!

Please prove your point and provide a link to this "felony" you continue to mention.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

mdougie said:


> ... and yet Penny is stuck being a drunk?
> 
> Penny needs rehab.
> .


I think you must have a problem with anyone who drinks alcohol. Penny isn't a drunk. She is an adult who occasionally drinks. 
In season one she was a ditzy one dimensional character. She has evolved into a character with a many faceted personality. Part of her personality is that she is a little bit jaded. She is more like an real person now.


----------



## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> [laugh track rant]
> There's only one problem, the "laugh track" that you refer to and that was invented by Charles Douglass isn't used on this show.
> 
> A "laugh track" is previously recorded laughter overlaid on a performance that did not have an audience. BBT and most sitcoms have a live studio audience and the laughter you hear is from them, the producers will sweeten the laughter by remixing it at times, but it's not a laugh track, it's the real studio audience from that perfoirmance.
> [/laugh track rant]


No sober person laughs at all the inappropriate places and as loud as they do in reality. They are laugh tracks.

The only time I have heard laughter like that is at comedy clubs when people are boozed up.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

replaytv said:


> No sober person laughs at all the inappropriate places and as loud as they do in reality. They are laugh tracks.
> 
> The only time I have heard laughter like that is at comedy clubs when people are boozed up.


They are actually real life audiences, not a laugh track, as Lorre says and both people who have been in the audience and guest stars attest to.

Wil Wheaton has in fact described his appearances on the show on his blog. He mentioned the filming of this episode, and noted that upon entering the scene, the audience's reaction was so great, it actually threw him off of his timing and they had to cut and reshoot after telling the audience to take it down a notch.
http://wilwheaton.net/2012/10/in-which-the-audience-cheers/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

replaytv said:


> The only time I have heard laughter like that is at comedy clubs when people are boozed up.





LoadStar said:


> They are actually real life audiences, not a laugh track, as Lorre says and both people who have been in the audience and guest stars attest to.


"Welcome to tonight's taping of The Big Bang Theory! Open bar to the left."


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

From this thread I learned that:

1) Penny rivals Otis of the Andy Griffith show as the worst sitcom drunk of all time

2) mdougie doesn't watch BBT or at least not the show I watch. Weirdest analysis of a sitcom ever.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

fmowry said:


> From this thread I learned that:
> 
> 1) Penny rivals Otis of the Andy Griffith show as the worst sitcom drunk of all time
> 
> 2) mdougie doesn't watch BBT or at least not the show I watch. Weirdest analysis of a sitcom ever.


I didn't analyze a sitcom. I reviewed an episode and analyzed a character.

I thought my initial review was good. It was brief. Perhaps a bit too harsh. Humor often falls flat on internet forums, but I just had to use the drowning under the shark line.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Ok. Weirdest analysis of a sitcom character ever.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

Thank you.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

This thread got way too long and seemed to mostly be people arguing with one person, so I skipped most of it. Just wanted to say I thought this was a pretty good episode and had me in stitches quite a lot of the time. I've had a Long Island Iced Tea and agree that if it's mixed right, Sheldon might well not realize it was alcoholic; however, if you want to pick on something, there's no way he could take two of them that fast and have his stomach (which is not at all accustomed to alcohol) not realize and decide to get rid of it *much* faster than it did. Penny's little smirk while she fought to keep a straight face as Sheldon started drinking the LIIT was quite well performed (though really, on a morality level, it's a new low even for her).


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mdougie said:


> Tragedy makes good comedy


...and this thread is clear evidence of that...


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

crashfistfight said:


> Did anyone else notice the number on Will Wheaton's house...1701


I did! And I was so excited I paused and turned to my wife and daughter to explain and they just rolled eyes.

Too bad it didn't have the D!


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

The only thing that pissed me off about this episode was the obvious visible Windows 8 screen shown prominently. It wouldn't have been so bad, but typically you don't see the computer screens, you see them from behind.

I shall now end my post with this Cracked article, called 6 Romantic Movie Gestures That Can Get You Prison Time. Tropes are tropes, and some folks don't know how to laugh.

Greg


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

gchance said:


> The only thing that pissed me off about this episode was the obvious visible Windows 8 screen shown prominently. It wouldn't have been so bad, but typically you don't see the computer screens, you see them from behind.
> 
> I shall now end my post with this Cracked article, called 6 Romantic Movie Gestures That Can Get You Prison Time. Tropes are tropes, and some folks don't know how to laugh.
> 
> Greg


Don't see serving a legal drink at a bar in that list.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> You are reaching *trolling*.


FYP

And shame on you and everyone else for falling for it.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

scooterboy said:


> Not when the comedy is savagely beaten out of it.


I can think of one savage beating at this point that would be comedy gold....


----------



## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Chuck Lorre had a vanity card about the BBT's "laugh machine":
http://www.chucklorre.com/index-bbt.php?p=282


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Drewster said:


> Chuck Lorre had a vanity card about the BBT's "laugh machine":


Notice he says "laugh machine", not "laugh track".

Greg


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

gchance said:


> Notice he says "laugh machine", not "laugh track".
> 
> Greg


Perhaps that's because to a TV professional, "laugh machine" is the proper term for what laypeople are referring to when they say "laugh track", and "laugh track" means something else to a TV pro?


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

mdougie said:


> I find your non understanding of reality regarding the law in this matter to be perplexing.
> 
> Like many things, it all depends on the consequences.


Please cite the Los Angeles County/California law you keep saying she broke.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)




----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

SeanC said:


> Sheldon drunk was HYSTERICAL.


:up: I have to agree.

For me the best line was when he handed Wil the action figure and said "Here play with yourself"


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> For me the best line was when he handed Wil the action figure and said "Here play with yourself"


No, the best part was that Wil *did*.


----------



## JerryLBell (May 3, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> No, the best part was that Wil *did*.


I really, really like Wil Wheaton. He's a good actor, a good writer, a surprisingly good audio book reader, is a true nerd and has a wonderful sense of humor, including humor about himself. He's one of the few actors out there I think would actually be enjoyable to hang around with.


----------



## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> [laugh track rant]
> There's only one problem, the "laugh track" that you refer to and that was invented by Charles Douglass isn't used on this show.
> 
> A "laugh track" is previously recorded laughter overlaid on a performance that did not have an audience. BBT and most sitcoms have a live studio audience and the laughter you hear is from them, the producers will sweeten the laughter by remixing it at times, but it's not a laugh track, it's the real studio audience from that perfoirmance.
> [/laugh track rant]


Then they must have 'laugh now' signs so the auduience knows when to laugh, because no sober person would laugh at all those times without some kind of outside interference. I mean... just watch the show and most of the other sitcoms and most of the time no one would ever laugh that much. 
I know that some shows have 'Applause' signs that light up.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

People react differently in an audience than they do sitting at home in their living rooms. People even react differently depending on whether they are alone in their living rooms or watching with someone else. I rarely laugh out loud when watching something alone even if I think it is very funny. It is the atmosphere of the studio audience that makes the laughter more demonstrative.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

replaytv said:


> Then they must have 'laugh now' signs so the auduience knows when to laugh, because no sober person would laugh at all those times without some kind of outside interference. I mean... just watch the show and most of the other sitcoms and most of the time no one would ever laugh that much.
> I know that some shows have 'Applause' signs that light up.


Have you ever been to a live comedy club? They'd never put the headlining comedian on stage right after people walked in the door. People need to be conditioned to laugh. That's why comedy clubs usually have a couple opening comedians to loosen people up before the headliner comes on. The same thing is true of these live audience tapings. They have a warm-up comedian who gets the crowd laughing and loosens them up. Then they're instructed to be very generous with their laughter. There are likely a couple "professional laughers" seeded throughout the audience. They may have "LAUGHTER" signs that light up. When all those factors come into play, it's not surprising that an audience would succumb to groupthink and all laugh loudly at the slightest joke.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Also, there's no reason to assume that every single audience member is laughing loudly at every single joke. Also, they do multiple takes of probably every single scene that they shoot, so they could easily capture and use the "best" audience responses, and match them up to whatever versions of the scenes they wind up using.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

BrettStah said:


> Also, they do multiple takes of probably every single scene that they shoot, so they could easily capture and use the "best" audience responses, and match them up to whatever versions of the scenes they wind up using.


And then run that audio through all manner of technological augmentation and tweaking gizmos to punch it up. Look at the number of sound editors in the credits of any sitcom.
THAT is what I object to.
My ear registers it as unnatural and it takes me out of the show.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> And then run that audio through all manner of technological augmentation and tweaking gizmos to punch it up. Look at the number of sound editors in the credits of any sitcom.
> THAT is what I object to.
> My ear registers it as unnatural and it takes me out of the show.


Yep, thank you. People seem weirdly defensive about this, calling it "sweetened". It is just so painfully obvious with TBBT, more than any sitcom ever. Turn the sound low and walk away a bit and you will hear almost constant laughter.

It's an OK show (but just OK; they beat the tropes to death) but the laughter is unbearable.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Yep, thank you. People seem weirdly defensive about this, calling it "sweetened". It is just so painfully obvious with TBBT, more than any sitcom ever. Turn the sound low and walk away a bit and you will hear almost constant laughter.


The reason people are "defensive" and I'm one of them, is that folks are calling an item something that's it's not, not even close, and they're trying to say that them saying it's "a laugh track" louder makes it correct, but it's not a laugh track, not at all, never has been, never will be. TCF is full of awesomely smart people, but calling a Great Dane a Poodle isn't something they normally would do.

I have no qualms with anyone saying they don't like the laughter and the way it's sweetened, I'll speak up when someone insists they don't like the show because of the "laugh track" since there isn't one.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Yep, thank you. People seem weirdly defensive about this, calling it "sweetened". It is just so painfully obvious with TBBT, more than any sitcom ever. Turn the sound low and walk away a bit and you will hear almost constant laughter.
> 
> It's an OK show (but just OK; they beat the tropes to death) but the laughter is unbearable.


It is not just an OK show. That is your judgement. It is funny as hell and haven't found a spot yet where the audience laughs that isn't funny.

Beat the tropes to death? Most want them to do more of that. And if you think that is beating the tropes to death, you never watched Laugh In.

It is also the only show we go over at work and laugh a lot.

The laugh track has never bothered me. Folks who it bothers would hate going to a funny show or movie or comedy club. All those people laughing. How annoying.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

dianebrat said:


> The reason people are "defensive" and I'm one of them, is that folks are calling an item something that's it's not, not even close, and they're trying to say that them saying it's "a laugh track" louder makes it correct, but it's not a laugh track, not at all, never has been, never will be. TCF is full of awesomely smart people, but calling a Great Dane a Poodle isn't something they normally would do.
> 
> I have no qualms with anyone saying they don't like the laughter and the way it's sweetened, I'll speak up when someone insists they don't like the show because of the "laugh track" since there isn't one.


A Great Dane and a poodle, they're both dogs. "sweetened" is just another flavor of laugh track. I presume a genuine Great Dane laugh track is real people laughing too.

I know I'm not alone because there is a lot of other Internet commentary and YouTube videos with the same complaint. Every single time howard's mother screams his name, the audience busts a gut. I've been to Chris Rock performances that have less laughter.

Why am I complaining? I don't know, people complain about all sorts of things. I rarely watch the show any more because of it, and maybe the public outcry will result in Chuck Lorre added way less sweetener. But I guess not, since it's an incredibly popular show.

I would love to hear the actual, real audience reaction. I realize that there are retakes and setup and all of that, but still. Take the best laughter from any of the takes and add it to the final cut, but don't overlay 10x more. Even then, you'd have a ton of laughter from the half of the audience that are being paid to laugh. But the way it is now, it's offensive.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I've been annoyed by laugh tracks or laugh sweetening on shows before - on BBT, I don't notice it at all.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I notice it. It's likely "sweetened" laughter. I would also suspect it's out of Chuck Lorre's hands and it's something the network suits require. 

I doesn't bother me that much, as it doesn't take that much away from the show. 

Not that there's that much to take away.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

dianebrat said:


> ...folks are calling an item something that's it's not, not even close, and they're trying to say that them saying it's "a laugh track" louder makes it correct, but it's not a laugh track, not at all, never has been, never will be.


The process used on BBT obviously affects the level of audience response that is fed to us as viewers. To say that the result is "not even close" to the result offered by a "real" laugh track is nonsense. Always has been, always will be.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

For those who don't like hearing laughter, what sitcoms do you like, and wish BBT was more like?


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Again, it's not that I don't like laughter. The overuse of engineered laughter, where every sentence has laughter building to an over the top crescendo is what I object to. 

I do really like Parks and Rec and the (old) Office, both of which show there's no real need for a laugh track. The early Seinfelds were over-laughed on every Kramer entrance, but they toned that down. I used to like Friends, and it's laughter didn't seem so overdone. 

I watched a BBT clip of Sheldon on-line gaming ("AFK") and the bit was funny, but the laughter levels were just embarrassing.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> A Great Dane and a poodle, they're both dogs. "sweetened" is just another flavor of laugh track. I presume a genuine Great Dane laugh track is real people laughing too.
> 
> I know I'm not alone because there is a lot of other Internet commentary and YouTube videos with the same complaint. Every single time howard's mother screams his name, the audience busts a gut. I've been to Chris Rock performances that have less laughter.
> 
> ...


No possibility that the actress playing Howard's mother is actually seen by the audience and she is doing something to make it funnier.

Actually, I don't give a damn what you think. You don't think the show is funny anyway and that makes you a thread crapper.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Considering that BBT gets 5 ratings when other sitcoms are considered successful with 2's, I just don't see them tinkering with things all that much. The ratings don't make it right, but it's hard to argue that the show isn't incredibly successful with the laughter as is.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I do really like Parks and Rec and the (old) Office, both of which show there's no real need for a laugh track. .


Aha. That's what I suspected.

I don't think you get the difference between a 3 camera and a one camera show.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Aha. That's what I suspected.
> 
> I don't think you get the difference between a 3 camera and a one camera show.


Meh, I don't want to be a threadcrapper. Y'all enjoy and I'll step out.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I can tolerate various degrees of laugh track, but what can't stand is when the audience breaks out in applause when a major character appears in a scene (ala Fonzie on Happy Days).


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## aaronw (Apr 13, 2001)

I like Scrubs, 30 rock, and Parks and rec - all one camera shows. Are there 3 camera shows that do not have laughter tracks? To be honest, the laugh track also drives me nuts on this show, and the only way I can watch it is at 1xFFWD with closed captions on.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Does anyone have any definitive evidence of laughter "sweetening?" To me, it just sounds like the anti-recorded-laughter people are just making an assumption. In fact, if it wasn't crystal clear that there really is a live studio audience, I think the same people would still be swearing up and down that it's a fake "laugh track."


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Does anyone have any definitive evidence of laughter "sweetening?" To me, it just sounds like the anti-recorded-laughter people are just making an assumption. In fact, if it wasn't crystal clear that there really is a live studio audience, I think the same people would still be swearing up and down that it's a fake "laugh track."


I dunno. But it seems that all of the people complaining about the laughing are comparing it to one camera shows.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't know how many cameras are used to tape a show and don't understand why I should care. Modern family is funny and I don't think there is loud laughter at every turn. Is that 1 camera or more than 1? why should the number of cameras affect how much people laugh?


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## MarkofT (Jul 27, 2001)

A 1 camera show is named as such because only footage from one camera at a time is used. It is filmed in scenes like a movie and the scenes are not in sequence. Filming of a single episode can take place over several weeks and there are usually several episodes being shot at the same time. They also tend to not use studios and thus no studio audience. 

A 3 camera show was invented by Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. 3 cameras are rolling simultaneously to capture all the action in both wide shots and close ups. These shows are primarily shot in studios with a studio audience. Filming of an episode occurs in a single (long) day and only one episode is in process at a time. The few scenes that take place on location are filmed ahead of taping and show to the audience to both get their reaction and to keep the audience informed of the story.

A 3 camera show may have a laugh-track but since they are filmed with an audience, the sound engineers usually capture the audience reaction and add it to the final audio mix. A 1 camera show can only have an artificial laugh-track due to the complete lack of an audience but normally have no laugh-track at all.

Big Bang Theory is a 3 camera show. Modern Family is a 1 camera show. Thus you cannot use MF in your argument about the audience reactions of BBT.


----------



## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

MarkofT said:


> Big Bang Theory is a 3 camera show. Modern Family is a 1 camera show. Thus you cannot use MF in your argument about the audience reactions of BBT.


So if a 1 camera show has laughter, it has to be canned whereas a 3 camera show's laughter might be canned or might be 'live'. I think I got it.

Is there any way to tell, just by watching, how many cameras are being used?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

efilippi said:


> So if a 1 camera show has laughter, it has to be canned whereas a 3 camera show's laughter might be canned or might be 'live'. I think I got it.
> 
> Is there any way to tell, just by watching, how many cameras are being used?


Easily.

3-camera shows are filmed very much like live theater, with the show filmed on a "proscenium stage," just like many major stage productions you might see. All of the acting takes place with the 3 walls of the set making up the backdrop. The cameras are all positioned looking into the "room." The camera angles will always be very basic.

1-camera shows will seem to be in an actual physical space with four walls. Camera work will be very cinematic; they will be able to do multiple different camera angles within a single scene, and can follow characters into and throughout the set, and can do more dramatic shots such as "over-the shoulder" and other shots like that.

In short, if it looks like it is filmed in a real space, it's almost guaranteed to be a 1-camera. If you never see the "fourth wall," it's almost certainly a 3-camera.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

efilippi said:


> So if a 1 camera show has laughter, it has to be canned whereas a 3 camera show's laughter might be canned or might be 'live'. I think I got it.
> 
> Is there any way to tell, just by watching, how many cameras are being used?


Yes. Typically multi camera shows are filmed on fairly static sets where you never see the ceiling or the wall where the cameras are usually located. For example on BBT, you never see the view looking away from the windows.
On a single camera show, it looks like it's being filmed in an actual location. You see the ceiling, the rooms from all angles etc. That's because they don't have the camera's set in a static location, they don't have an audience etc.

Current examples of single camera are Modern Family, Parks and Rec, The Office. Examples multi camera are Big Bang Theory, Two and a Half Men, 2 Broke Girls.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> For those who don't like hearing laughter, what sitcoms do you like, and wish BBT was more like?


The funniest sitcom on now is Happy Endings. The jokes on HE are so quick and numerous there would not be time for audience laughter. I like BBT, but the long pauses for laughter are annoying. BBT is a show supposedly about highly intelligent people but it seems low brow compared to HE.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

tiams said:


> The funniest sitcom on now is Happy Endings. The jokes on HE are so quick and numerous there would not be time for audience laughter. I like BBT, but the long pauses for laughter are annoying. BBT is a show supposedly about highly intelligent people but it seems low brow compared to HE.


Again, another single camera show.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

It's amazing how much we can talk about the laugh track rather than the show.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

You want a good example of a 3-camera show where the lack of a laugh track is painfully obvious, it's _Whitney_.

They film live in front of a studio audience, just like BBT, but at all the moments where there should be laughter, there isn't (because the jokes fall flat) and it's really awkward.


----------



## MarkofT (Jul 27, 2001)

Hunter Green said:


> It's amazing how much we can talk about the laugh track rather than the show.


This is a forum with a topic based format. You get topic creep and people don't try to steer it back to the original topic. This is also an old conversation that for some reason people seem to keep bringing back up in BBT threads so you get the same teams on each side reciting the same arguments back and forth.



busyba said:


> You want a good example of a 3-camera show where the lack of a laugh track is painfully obvious, it's _Whitney_.
> 
> They film live in front of a studio audience, just like BBT, but at all the moments where there should be laughter, there isn't (because the jokes fall flat) and it's really awkward.


Ummm, if there is a space for laughter and there isn't any reaction from the audience, then it is evidence of no laugh track. If they are going to use a laugh track, they would put laughter at each punchline.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MarkofT said:


> Ummm, if there is a space for laughter and there isn't any reaction from the audience, then it is evidence of no laugh track. If they are going to use a laugh track, they would put laughter at each punchline.


That's what I said: "where *the lack of a laugh track* is painfully obvious"


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I would love to hear the actual, real audience reaction. I realize that there are retakes and setup and all of that, but still. Take the best laughter from any of the takes and add it to the final cut, but don't overlay 10x more. Even then, you'd have a ton of laughter from the half of the audience that are being paid to laugh. But the way it is now, it's offensive.


You can choose whether to believe this or not, but Chuck Lorre has sworn up and down in many interviews that they don't do any sweetening of the laughter for BBT.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> I dunno. But it seems that all of the people complaining about the laughing are comparing it to one camera shows.


What's the problem with that? People can enjoy a show's content while thinking it would be better if the show's format (single cam vs. multi cam) were different.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

efilippi said:


> The process used on BBT obviously affects the level of audience response that is fed to us as viewers. To say that the result is "not even close" to the result offered by a "real" laugh track is nonsense. Always has been, always will be.


How is real laughter by real people in attendance at the actual performance at all equatable to an engineer in a studio assigning recordings of laughter not associated with the performance? I can't see them being "close" at any point, one reflects the performance, one does not.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> What's the problem with that? People can enjoy a show's content while thinking it would be better if the show's format (single cam vs. multi cam) were different.


It's that I don't think a lot of them understand the difference.


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

dianebrat said:


> How is real laughter by real people in attendance at the actual performance at all equatable to an engineer in a studio assigning recordings of laughter not associated with the performance? I can't see them being "close" at any point, one reflects the performance, one does not.


I'd say they're both equatable in the only way that matters to _me_.

They can both cause me to be distracted from the show when present in volume, duration, or frequency that seems excessive to me personally.

It's the fact that the laughter managed to pull me out of the show that bothers me; not whether it's live, sweetened, pre-recorded track, or beamed into my head by little green men from Alpha Centauri.  
(that said, it doesn't raise to that level often (again for me personally) in the Big Bang Theory; but it was very annoying in the early episodes of Sports Night).


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> It's that I don't think a lot of them understand the difference.


I understand the difference.

I don't _care_ if it is "different"- it is still equally annoying.

It is even _more_ annoying when folks tell me that because it is not the same thing it can't _possibly_ be equally annoying.
It is annoying to _me_ and no label, no explanation, no nothing is going to change that fact.

It's not the name or the process or the technology of sound that keeps this topic alive.
It is the refusal of some to acknowledge that folks that are annoyed by it are not making crap up.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> I understand the difference.
> 
> I don't _care_ if it is "different"- it is still equally annoying.
> 
> ...


I think you are misunderstanding.

No one is saying one can't find it annoying.

They are just saying that the statement "_Modern Family_ doesn't use a laugh track, so I don't see why BBT has to" is a poor argument.

You might as well say "I don't see why BBT has to use a laugh track; _Law and Order SVU_ doesn't!"


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> *I understand the difference*.
> 
> I don't _care_ if it is "different"- it is still equally annoying.
> 
> ...


You didn't follow the thread closely enough, and totally misread/misunderstood the post you are replying to.

He was not at all comparing studio laughter to a pre-recorded laugh track. What he was referring to when he said "people don't understand the difference" was that it seems some (perhaps not you, I'll grant) don't understand the vast creative differences between a one-camera and a three-camera style show. They're really nothing alike.

When someone says "Gee, BBT would be better if it didn't have laughter like <insert one-camera show here>," the lack of laughter in those one-camera shows is only one of many creative differences between the shows, and you can't just take one component (the laughter) and separate it out. (As busyba well pointed out as I was typing this post, you may as well be comparing to an hour-long drama like SVU.)

No one doubts that some find the laughter annoying. However, one wonders why those who find the laughter so annoying are participating in a thread on a show that features live studio laughter as a key trait.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

busyba said:


> I think you are misunderstanding.
> 
> No one is saying one can't find it annoying.
> 
> ...


Right.

When Sports Night had a laugh track, that was silly.

What I don't understand is what makes BBT different from every single TV show filmed in front of a live audience in history. Every single one. Why is it annoying now?

I think it's because one camera sitcoms have become so dominant, that some people have forgotten what live ones are like.

And _some_ people don't understand the technical differences.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> It's not the name or the process or the technology of sound that keeps this topic alive.
> It is the refusal of some to acknowledge that folks that are annoyed by it are not making crap up.


No, it's that people keep complaining about it.

And I maintain that some people don't understand that the reason that there is "laughter" in shows filmed in front of a live audience as opposed to shows that aren't, is because there is an audience there laughing.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

We need two BBT episode threads each week. One where we actually talk about the show and the other for people to complain about the laughter.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

can we get back to complaining about the drinking?


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

snowjay said:


> We need two BBT episode threads each week. One where we actually talk about the show and the other for people to complain about the laughter.


I think an episode thread for the weekly show, plus an all-season thread to complain about the laughter, would be sufficient.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

murgatroyd said:


> I think an episode thread for the weekly show, plus an all-season thread to complain about the laughter, would be sufficient.


And then a third thread for people to complain about two threads being created.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Plus the "Official BBT (NO SPOILERS)" thread.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> can we get back to complaining about the drinking *felony poisoning*?


FYP


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

We need a thread to complain about the fake laughing at the felony drinking.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

What were we talking about?


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

This show sure gets people riled up.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I found a 1 Camera show that has a live audience and possibly a laugh track! 

Link: http://www.nbc.com/assets/video/widget/widget.html?vid=1357946

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYwcS6GThY8[/media]






.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I certainly love BBTheory. Sometimes it is just one comment that I laugh about the rest of the day, as the comment is so perfect, as is the acting and the situation. I record all the reruns and watch all or part of them. Watching the reruns is easy as I know them already, but can pay more attention depending on if I am waiting a download on the computer, or waiting in cue for a call center agent to pick up.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)




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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Ugh... we talked about that in the last 9 "bbt laugh track" debates. The actors actually do pause and let the audience laugh, so they're not laughing over the next lines.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Without the laughter it is obvious that it is needed. I wouldn't watch 30 minutes of that. TV sitcoms had laugh tracks for fifty years because they worked.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> Ugh... we talked about that in the last 9 "bbt laugh track" debates. The actors actually do pause and let the audience laugh, so they're not laughing over the next lines.


[Sheldon turns to audience]
"Would you please just SHUT UP? Can't you see we're trying to have a CONVERSATION up here?!?" [sighs dramatically] "Some people are just so RUDE!" [audience laughs hysterically]


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tiams said:


> Without the laughter it is obvious that it is needed. I wouldn't watch 30 minutes of that. TV sitcoms had laugh tracks for fifty years because they worked.


It needs it because everything about the show is set up to take advantage of the live audience. The writers write for that, the actors act for that, the show is shot in a way that they can see it, etc.

I think the people complaining about the live audience aren't saying to simply remove the laughing and the show would be better. They're saying that if you took the show's concept and characters but made it as a single-camera show, the show would still be funny and likely would be better.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> It needs it because everything about the show is set up to take advantage of the live audience. The writers write for that, the actors act for that, the show is shot in a way that they can see it, etc.
> 
> I think the people complaining about the live audience aren't saying to simply remove the laughing and the show would be better. They're saying that if you took the show's concept and characters but made it as a single-camera show, the show would still be funny and likely would be better.


Maybe not even a 1 camera show, you could exclude the live audience and still use a 3 camera set-up.

Three camera allowed for, but doesn't _require_, a live audience. But yes, if you killed the laughter you'd have to tweak the rest of the show and its timing because of that. It'd be very odd and disjointed to have everyone stop for brief moments of silence where laughter used to be.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> Maybe not even a 1 camera show, you could exclude the live audience and still use a 3 camera set-up.


You could, but I doubt it would be very good.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jonathan_S said:


> Maybe not even a 1 camera show, you could exclude the live audience and still use a 3 camera set-up.
> 
> Three camera allowed for, but doesn't _require_, a live audience. But yes, if you killed the laughter you'd have to tweak the rest of the show and its timing because of that. It'd be very odd and disjointed to have everyone stop for brief moments of silence where laughter used to be.


But the whole point of using 3-camera, despite the way it limits you, is because it allows for a studio audience. If you're going to forgo the audience, then you'd be nuts not to go to the far more flexible 1-camera.

It's not that 3-camera allows for but doesn't require a studio audience. It's that a studio audience requires 3-camera.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'd love to see BBT shot as a 1-camera show, but I think it would be so strange.

They should do it just for one episode.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Hank said:


> I'd love to see BBT shot as a 1-camera show, but I think it would be so strange.
> 
> They should do it just for one episode.


They would have to deal with the missing 4th wall on all of their sets. Not saying it's not doable, but it would not be as flexible for them to film it as it is on a show like The Office.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the whole point of using 3-camera, despite the way it limits you, is because it allows for a studio audience. If you're going to forgo the audience, then you'd be nuts not to go to the far more flexible 1-camera.
> 
> It's not that 3-camera allows for but doesn't require a studio audience. It's that a studio audience requires 3-camera.


are there any scripted comedy or drama shows that do a multi camera shoot that aren't done in front of a live audience? Maybe some daytime soap operas? There have been "one off" specials were some shows that were done single camera did a special live episode. I know ER did this at least once. But this doesn't really count, IMHO, since it's a special thing. Also, I'm not counting live news broadcasts either.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> It needs it because everything about the show is set up to take advantage of the live audience. The writers write for that, the actors act for that, the show is shot in a way that they can see it, etc.
> 
> I think the people complaining about the live audience aren't saying to simply remove the laughing and the show would be better. They're saying that if you took the show's concept and characters but made it as a single-camera show, the show would still be funny and likely would be better.


I don't care about 1 or 3 cameras. I don't care that there is laughter or where it comes from. I have stopped watching the show because of the heinous, rolling volume and quantity of laughter. When I watch those clips with the laughter removed, I confirm to myself that it is an amusing show. I enjoyed it, until I just couldn't take the laughter any more. If they would just tone it down to something that might marginally represent real laughter, that'd be great and I'd happily go back to watching. Penny...laughter...Penny...louder laughter...Penny...OMG I am splitting my guts with laughter! I hope Howard's mother doesn't scream his name or I might die with laughter! It just seems cheap to me - like they can write a 7 minute shorter show with all of the pausing for laughter.

I honestly forget which shows are which, but don't I remember "Cheers was filmed in front of a live studio audience"? I seem to recall a lot of shows with this claim, but not a single one of them compares to the level of BBT's laughter.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I honestly forget which shows are which, but don't I remember "Cheers was filmed in front of a live studio audience"? I seem to recall a lot of shows with this claim, but not a single one of them compares to the level of BBT's laughter.


You're misremembering. I think people have just gotten used to 1 camera shows with no audience, and that there are so few 3 camera shows with an audience, that it's jarring to them.

Now, if you tell me that the laugh track in MASH or Monty Python, or the first season of Sports Night is annoying, then I will agree with you.

But I continue to maintain that the people who are complaining about having to hear laughing sounds are comparing the show to shows that are not filmed in front of a live audience, and not to shows that are.

Yes. Shows filmed in front of people will have the noise of the people that it's filmed in front of.

Can we move on?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the whole point of using 3-camera, despite the way it limits you, is because it allows for a studio audience. If you're going to forgo the audience, then you'd be nuts not to go to the far more flexible 1-camera.
> 
> It's not that 3-camera allows for but doesn't require a studio audience. It's that a studio audience requires 3-camera.


But don't forget that single-camera shows are much more expensive to produce and take a lot longer. A show like BBT can tape in 2-3 hours, one night a week. The rest of the week is used for the crew to prep the sets, table reads, rehearsing, etc. In contrast, a show like The Office likely takes several full days of shooting for each episode, because each shot has to be lit a certain way, then they remove the lights and set up for the next shot, etc. 


jsmeeker said:


> are there any scripted comedy or drama shows that do a multi camera shoot that aren't done in front of a live audience? Maybe some daytime soap operas? There have been "one off" specials were some shows that were done single camera did a special live episode. I know ER did this at least once. But this doesn't really count, IMHO, since it's a special thing. Also, I'm not counting live news broadcasts either.


How I Met Your Mother is filmed as a multi-camera show but does not have a live audience. They use a true "laugh track."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> But I continue to maintain that the people who are complaining about having to hear laughing sounds are comparing the show to shows that are not filmed in front of a live audience, and not to shows that are.
> 
> Yes. Shows filmed in front of people will have the noise of the people that it's filmed in front of.
> 
> Can we move on?


I think you're missing the point of the discussion. It's not about the logisitcs of whether the show has an audience or uses canned laughter, etc. It's about the creative decision the producers made to use a format that stifles creativity and instead results in a schlocky, cookie-cutter look and feel.

Would the creative process behind the show have to be altered? Of course. Would the writing style and set design and everything else have to change? Yes. But there are those who believe that all those changes would result in a better show. It's a valid topic of discussion.

Frankly, I think it would be very interesting to see a show like BBT do an episode in single-camera style, just like Scrubs switched to mutli-camera style in the middle of one of their episodes to showcase the differences. For those of you who have never seen it, you should definitely try and find Scrubs Season 4, Episode 17 "My Life in Four Cameras."* It's fascinating to see the show switch to multi-camera right in the middle of the episode and see the types of things that are done differently on a single-cam vs. multi-cam show.

*I think you can find the episode on YouTube, but it's split into multiple parts, and I'm guessing copyrighted stuff like this doesn't stay up for long, so I'm not going to post a link and instead I'll let people search for it on their own.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> How I Met Your Mother is filmed as a multi-camera show but does not have a live audience. They use a true "laugh track."


Yeah, I didn't realize that until I saw the blooper reel and the only "audience noise" you could hear was coming from the crew.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Penny doesn't look good. Is she doing drugs?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think she's just felony-drunk.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Frankly, I think it would be very interesting to see a show like BBT do an episode in single-camera style, just like Scrubs switched to mutli-camera style in the middle of one of their episodes to showcase the differences. For those of you who have never seen it, you should definitely try and find Scrubs Season 4, Episode 17 "My Life in Four Cameras."* It's fascinating to see the show switch to multi-camera right in the middle of the episode and see the types of things that are done differently on a single-cam vs. multi-cam show.


Thanks for that suggestion. I just found it on Amazon and will give it a stream.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I know early seasons of MASH were single camera with an added laugh track. Did they switch to multi-camera later on in the run though? I remember it looking more set like in later seasons. I don't think they ever filmed in front of an audience though.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

What show/episode are we talking about?


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Cheers added the "Cheers is filmed in front of a live studio audience" as a direct response to griping that they were using a laugh track.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

USAFSSO said:


> What show/episode are we talking about?


The one with all the laughing.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

USAFSSO said:


> What show/episode are we talking about?


"The Laugh Track Conundrum."


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the people complaining about the live audience aren't saying to simply remove the laughing and the show would be better. They're saying that if you took the show's concept and characters but made it as a single-camera show, the show would still be funny and likely would be better.


No- this one person is simply saying "stop *tweaking* the laughter."



Turtleboy said:


> Can we move on?


We will never move on until folks stop equating sound issues to an inability to discern how many cameras were used while filming the show and a bizarre insistence that I must be comparing the sound of this show to the sounds of other shows.
I am not.


> But I continue to maintain that the people who are complaining about having to hear laughing sounds are comparing the show to shows that are not filmed in front of a live audience, and not to shows that are.
> 
> Yes. Shows filmed in front of people will have the noise of the people that it's filmed in front of.


I am not "complaining about having to hear laughing sounds."
I am complaining about hearing *unnaturally augmented laughing* sounds.
Please reread that last sentence.
I just want natural laughter that does not take me out of the show.
Take those guffawing bubbas and professional laughers and show them the door.

I'll stop with this if you stop with the how many cameras BS


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> No- this one person is simply saying "stop tweaking the laughter."


And as I've said before, the producers insist that they don't tweak the laughter on this show. They just do a really good job of prepping their live audiences.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> And as I've said before, the producers insist that they don't tweak the laughter on this show. They just do a really good job of prepping their live audiences.


As I've said before, I do not believe them 
Maybe Lorre and team don't, maybe CBS does.

*My point is*- whatever process/procedure/preparation/paid goober is causing the laughter to be obnoxiously prominent needs to be eliminated.

That is all.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Without the studio laughter the show would be forced to have better, funnier dialogue.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> *My point is*- whatever process/procedure/preparation/paid goober is causing the laughter to be obnoxiously prominent needs to be eliminated.


Ah. That would be the comedy.

Maybe you should switch to _Criminal Minds_.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

tiams said:


> Without the studio laughter the show would be forced to have better, funnier dialogue.


In other words, you want this show to be a different show. Got it. Maybe you should just watch that other, supposedly better show.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

This is like complaining about how the actresses in 2 Broke Girls laugh at almost all of their lines as they deliver them. It's just the way the show works.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> And as I've said before, the producers insist that they don't tweak the laughter on this show. They just do a really good job of prepping their live audiences.


The audience is miked and recorded separately from the actors. Those separate tracks are mixed together in post-production. The person who has the final say over the sound mix (whoever that is in this case) is deciding to set the audience at a certain level. It is disingenuous to say that the laughter is not tweaked - every sound included in the mix is tweaked. That's what sound mixing is. There is no way that they simply take the tracks and combine them without deciding at what volume each track should be heard.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> In other words, you want this show to be a different show. Got it. Maybe you should just watch that other, supposedly better show.


...and crap in the threads for that show instead.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> In other words, you want this show to be a different show. Got it. Maybe you should just watch that other, supposedly better show.


You are putting words in my mouth.
I don't like that.
Don't do that.



wouldworker said:


> The audience is miked and recorded separately from the actors. Those separate tracks are mixed together in post-production. The person who has the final say over the sound mix (whoever that is in this case) is deciding to set the audience at a certain level. It is disingenuous to say that the laughter is not tweaked - every sound included in the mix is tweaked. That's what sound mixing is. There is no way that they simply take the tracks and combine them without deciding at what volume each track should be heard.


Thank you.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> You are putting words in my mouth.
> I don't like that.
> Don't do that.


 He wasn't replying to you.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

David Platt said:


> He wasn't replying to you.


Thank you.

ETA: To clarify the point I made to tiams, not to you: When someone says they want to change the show to remove the laughter (and therefore change from 3-cam to 1-cam, since I don't know of any 3-cam shows without laughter), change the pacing of the show, change the writing... they are describing a completely different show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wouldworker said:


> The audience is miked and recorded separately from the actors. Those separate tracks are mixed together in post-production. The person who has the final say over the sound mix (whoever that is in this case) is deciding to set the audience at a certain level. It is disingenuous to say that the laughter is not tweaked - every sound included in the mix is tweaked. That's what sound mixing is. There is no way that they simply take the tracks and combine them without deciding at what volume each track should be heard.


I guess I should have been more specific. The producers adamanly insist they don't "sweeten" the audience laughter. That's a term of art in the industry that indicates they're adding additional recorded laughter to what is recorded from the live audience. I believe that. I don't think they have any reason to do this.

As for whether they adjust the volume levels of the audience laughter relative to the actor dialogue and other ambient sounds: of course they do that. There's no way they could just record everything at the same levels and trust that it would be properly mixed.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

I find that I only notice the laughter on shows where I'm not laughing along with the audience on the show. I also find that's a good indication that I should stop watching that show.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> In other words, you want this show to be a different show. Got it. Maybe you should just watch that other, supposedly better show.


No, the show is fine for what it is (lowest common denominator humor) and I enjoy watching it when I want to zone out.

I never said they should take the laughter out or change it in anyway; only that if they didn't rely on the laughter the writing would have to be better. Does anybody dispute that?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

tiams said:


> No, the show is fine for what it is (lowest common denominator humor) and I enjoy watching it when I want to zone out.


I dunno.. I think 2 1/2 Men is a bit lower of a denominator ;0


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

tiams said:


> No, the show is fine for what it is (lowest common denominator humor) and I enjoy watching it when I want to zone out.
> 
> I never said they should take the laughter out or change it in anyway; only that if they didn't rely on the laughter the writing would have to be better. Does anybody dispute that?


Yes.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Me too. I think the writing is great, and hope they day change anything, such as the laughter. I have never, ever been bothered by it on this show (and I have been severely annoyed by it on other shows).


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> For those who don't like hearing laughter, what sitcoms do you like, and wish BBT was more like?


Til 'death obviously


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> It needs it because everything about the show is set up to take advantage of the live audience. The writers write for that, the actors act for that, the show is shot in a way that they can see it, etc.
> 
> I think the people complaining about the live audience aren't saying to simply remove the laughing and the show would be better. They're saying that if you took the show's concept and characters but made it as a single-camera show, the show would still be funny and likely would be better.


Yet apparently mash and the odd couple both went the other way, like up all night is from single cam to multi cam and according to ken Levine both became much funnier going the opposite way.

Multicam sitcom acting, directing and writing are specific skill sets in the tv/movie business.

I still don't get why people get so riled up about laughing and I still blame a big part of it on people being unable to hold focus on what they should be paying attention to.

I literally have to focus on hearing the laugh track like someone trying to find the hidden picture in the dot painting to get a audience laughing to even register. Then as soon as I stop focusing it goes back to its proper place as background noise and processed as such


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

marksman said:


> Yet apparently mash and the odd couple both went the other way, like up all night is from single cam to multi cam and according to ken Levine both became much funnier going the opposite way.
> 
> Multicam sitcom acting, directing and writing are specific skill sets in the tv/movie business.
> 
> ...


I'm not complaining about the laughing. I rarely notice it, to be honest. But in my opinion, the level of creativity, the quality of the writing, and the artistic talent of the filming is so much higher on single-cam sitcoms.* That's why I'd like to see what this show would be like if filmed in a more real-world style rather than the fake, overproduced, ultra-hammy style of the multi-cam sitcom.

*The one thing that's better on multi-cam sitcoms is the "setup-punchline" writing style. I've heard that a vast amount of time in the writer's room of a multi-cam sitcom is spent simply trying to craft the punchlines and trying to come up with something better. If you like that kind of writing/acting, then that's fine. I just find it very fake and grating. I'd much rather the writers spend more time on character development.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tiams said:


> No, the show is fine for what it is (lowest common denominator humor) and I enjoy watching it when I want to zone out.
> 
> I never said they should take the laughter out or change it in anyway; only that if they didn't rely on the laughter the writing would have to be better. Does anybody dispute that?


I do. Where does that come from? Are all movies funnier or better than every TV show since they don't have laughter in them?


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

getbak said:


> I find that I only notice the laughter on shows where I'm not laughing along with the audience on the show. I also find that's a good indication that I should stop watching that show.


Exactly. It took me a couple of seasons to get into TBBT because every time I tried an episode the laughter pulled me out.

I don't recall what sucked me in, but I finally got to the point where I was laughing along with the audience and no longer notice it


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Something is clearly wrong with me. After all this talk about laugh tracks, it still never crosses my mind when watching the show. I hope I never think about listening for it, cause then I probably won't be able to unhear it.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Something is clearly wrong with me. After all this talk about laugh tracks, it still never crosses my mind when watching the show. I hope I never think about listening for it, cause then I probably won't be able to unhear it.


Me too. I also never notice AFF's hiding of her hand.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I don't hear the laugh track either.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I'll balance out this thread:

I don't know why they need to have all this pesky dialogue in between the laughter. This show would be so much better without it.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I tried to focus on the laugh track on the last episode, but it was so unobtrusive that my mind tuned it out in the first minute.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

There's a laugh track? First I've heard of it.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Sorry, I meant audience laughter, not laugh track.


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