# Will Moca work with a wireless network?



## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

I just got hooked up with TDS and have two bolts. Both are wifi only.

In my previous home I had a wired ethernet moca setup, but now I live in one of those new smart homes, so no ethernet cables to trip over. I think the house is smarter than me.

There are no ethernet ports and I don't intend to string any wire.

I don't see any setting in my TiVo account currently for transfers. If I remember correctly there was a setting for transferring between Bolts when I had the moca setup.

My question is, will moca work in a wifi environment only. If not, so be it.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

No.

There are wireless bridges, but if both TiVo boxes are wireless, that shouldn't stop transfers unless they are TE4, in which case you can stream content but not move it without using TiVo Online.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I'd be _dang_ surprised to know for sure someone built a Smart-Home and didn't run _any_ Cat-5 or Coax...it doesn't make any sense.

Do you have blank wallplates in various locations?

Is there a panel on the wall inside one of the Bedroom Closets?

-KP


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

dnorth12 said:


> I just got hooked up with TDS and have two bolts. Both are wifi only.
> 
> In my previous home I had a wired ethernet moca setup, but now I live in one of those new smart homes, so no ethernet cables to trip over. I think the house is smarter than me.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure you have coax. In your old place you were apparently using Ethernet for connection, not moca. You can use moca over coax in you new house.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> I just got hooked up with TDS and have two bolts. Both are wifi only.
> 
> In my previous home I had a wired ethernet moca setup, but now I live in one of those new smart homes, so no ethernet cables to trip over. I think the house is smarter than me.
> 
> There are no ethernet ports and I don't intend to string any wire.


But you already have "wire" at the BOLT locations, in the form of coax lines ... since your parallel post indicates you've hooked them both up with CableCARDs.

I'm assuming you may be confusing how you previously had your system set up with how it *could* be set up; that is, neither of your BOLTs require an Ethernet connection for there to be a wired MoCA network connection between them. You just need some other device to act as the MoCA/Ethernet bridge (where the required connectivity is available), and your BOLTs would then be networked as MoCA clients* over your coax plant.

So, the question is ... what type of Internet service do you have, cable, fiber or DSL? Assuming cable Internet, do you have a combo modem/router or distinct modem and router devices, and what are their model #s? Do you have just a single coax line to the modem location, or is a second unused line available? Do you know where the coax lines all come together, and through what components?

Basically, you'll set up a MoCA/Ethernet bridge at your modem/router location, either via a combo gateway's built-in MoCA bridging or using a standalone MoCA adapter, if needed. But you'll need to review your coax plant to confirm it's ready for MoCA, ensuring the rooms all connect to the shared coax plant and that a "PoE" MoCA filter is installed at the cable signal's point-of-entry to keep your MoCA network inside the home and off the provider's premise.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> your BOLTs would then be networked as MoCA clients* over your coax plant.


* p.s. With both BOLTs configured only as MoCA clients, you will be able to leverage their built-in MoCA bridging and otherwise unused Ethernet ports to provide wired connectivity to Ethernet-capable devices at each of their locations. See the following post for more info:

Extending wired connectivity at a MoCA-client TiVo DVR

(As a bonus, the above thread includes a diagram that may help illustrate a possible solution for your setup, depending, of course, on your gear and available coax connections.)


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

You are correct. Previous home was connected via ethernet cable.
The POE filter is still there.
I have since misplaced my MOCA adapter.
The current home has a cable wall plate at each Bolt location.
There are no ethernet ports anywhere in the home.
Per the diagram I only have two locations, TV room and bedroom. So not sure if I would need two or three splitters as shown in the diagram.
I don't why, but I always have trouble visualizing this kind of thing, until I actually have it up and running.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> So, the question is ... what type of Internet service do you have, cable, fiber or DSL? Assuming cable Internet, do you have a combo modem/router or distinct modem and router devices, and what are their model #s? Do you have just a single coax line to the modem location, or is a second unused line available? Do you know where the coax lines all come together, and through what components?


Any info available on the above set of questions?



dnorth12 said:


> I have since misplaced my MOCA adapter.


You _may _not need one, depending on the type of Internet service and modem/router gear that you have. (Thus the need for add'l info.)


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

I have cable. I have an Arris modem model TG3452. There is a plethora of cables in the cabinet, but only one connected to the modem as expected.
As far as what is coming into the house, I will have to pull the outdoor panel and have a look.
Inside the closet cabinet.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> I have an Arris modem model TG3452


That gateway's >specs sheet< says it has built-in MoCA 2.0 bridging, so you may want to get into its UI and check for the ability to enable MoCA. (Hopefully TDS allows this; some providers can interfere with MoCA settings: Spectrum doesn't allow enabling MoCA on their gateways, IIRC, and Comcast requires devices be whitelisted to enable MoCA functionality.)

Assuming enabling MoCA in the gateway is both allowed and possible, all that you would need (want) to do is get a "PoE" MoCA filter installed on the input of that 2-way splitter in the central panel (closet cabinet) feeding the modem and secondary splitter, to secure and strengthen your MoCA signals. Once the filter is in place and you have MoCA enabled on the gateway, you should be able to just configure one or both BOLTs as MoCA clients.






​
p.s. You may be able to get a free "PoE" MoCA filter from TDS, via their local office or a friendly technician.

edit: p.p.s. Good info/pics. You likely have an amplifier in the outside box, given there's a power inserter in the cabinet pic, but all your lines appear to be available in the closet cabinet, so you shouldn't need to get into the outside box ... unless you think it might have a "PoE" MoCA filter installed ... which would be best relocated per the above info/pic.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Simple as the following, ideally (w the network switch optional) ...







​... or possibly the following, if you need/want to use a standalone MoCA adapter, modifying the configuration to isolate the gateway from MoCA signals.






​


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

I took the outdoor panel off and grabbed a picture. Wondering if it would be better to connect the moca filter (which I grabbed at the TDS office a couple minutes ago) here and specifically where? Under the Arris device where the white cable is or between the two connected black to white cables?

I assume if I can connect here then there will be no more need for cable connections.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> Wondering if it would be better to connect the moca filter (which I grabbed at the TDS office a couple minutes ago) here and specifically where?


The "PoE" MoCA filter should be installed where noted in my prior post, on the input of the 2-way splitter in the closet cabinet that feeds the gateway and secondary splitter.






​


dnorth12 said:


> I assume if I can connect here then there will be no more need for cable connections.


I don't understand what you're saying, here. With the "PoE" MoCA filter installed per above, there already isn't any need for additional cable connections ... assuming the 2-way secondary splitter in the closet cabinet is the source of the coax connections for each of your BOLTs. Once the "PoE" MoCA filter is in place, you can move on to enabling MoCA in your gateway.

That said, you may want to link-in additional coax lines, at some point, if you were to want to leverage MoCA to provide wired network connections for additional rooms. Given all the coax lines in your latest pic, I'm guessing that there are a few more rooms with coax outlets that will be left disconnected, with just the 2 BOLT setup.


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

Good. I just wanted to confirm if there was an easier alternate connection point. The closet is kind of tight fit.
I logged into the modem and enabled moca.
I'll make the filter connection and then see what I can do in the TiVo network settings.
Will report back.
Thanks.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> I logged into the modem and enabled moca.


Assuming you can afford the network outage, you might want to power down the gateway for a couple minutes then restart it, to check whether your MoCA configuration change remains.



dnorth12 said:


> I'll make the filter connection and then see what I can do in the TiVo network settings.


Should be as simple as enabling MoCA and choosing to configure the BOLT as a "Client."


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Assuming you can afford the network outage, you might want to power down the gateway for a couple minutes then restart it, to check whether your MoCA configuration change remains.
> 
> Should be as simple as enabling MoCA and choosing to configure the BOLT as a "Client."


I did disconnect the power to the modem. MOCA setting stuck.

Currently on the TV room Bolt.
Enabled client, auto channel with no encryption. Received a MOCA network problem dialog. Where do I go from here?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> I did disconnect the power to the modem. MOCA setting stuck.
> 
> Currently on the TV room Bolt.
> Enabled client, auto channel with no encryption. Received a MOCA network problem dialog. Where do I go from here?


Can you take/send another pic of the closet cabinet, as it currently stands? (just want to confirm the "PoE" MoCA filter location) And are you confident that the BOLTs are connected via the 2nd splitter in that cabinet?

Next, you may want to review the MoCA configuration of the gateway to double-check that its settings match what you were using to set up the BOLT (channel, privacy, etc.).

A standalone MoCA adapter would be handy, at this point, if only for testing, but alas...

If checking/adjusting the gateway MoCA settings doesn't help, if/when you can afford a network outage, one option would be to temporarily take one of your BOLTs (lacking any other MoCA-capable device) to your gateway location, and either use a 2-way splitter to get both the BOLT and gateway connected to the coax (brief Internet outage while the splitter is inserted) ... or make a direct coax connection between the BOLT and gateway (which will kill your Internet connectivity). Once connected, try the BOLT MoCA client setup, on this relocated BOLT, again.

If things still aren't working, you could keep the one BOLT at the gateway location, connected to the coax using a splitter (to preserve the gateway's coax connection), disable MoCA on the gateway and connect the BOLT via Ethernet to the gareway's LAN. Once the BOLT is networked via Ethernet, you could then enable the BOLT as a MoCA bridge ... and then go try the other BOLT as a MoCA client, to see if the BOLTs can see each other over the coax plant. (again, a standalone MoCA adapter could make this testing easier, obviously, but if the BOLTs are all you have to work with...)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.s. Maybe before all the moving things around, try powering-off one of your BOLTs after attempting and failing with the MoCA connection, then try again after powering the BOLT backup up. (edit: Suggesting this as TiVo's can sometimes be hinky when switching between wireless and wired mode.)


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. Maybe before all the moving things around, try powering-off one of your BOLTs after attempting and failing with the MoCA connection, then try again after powering the BOLT backup up. (edit: Suggesting this as TiVo's can sometimes be hinky when switching between wireless and wired mode.)


Actually everything is working now except for the all of a sudden outage of both cable and internet with TDS.

While waiting for the TDS agent to do her thing I looked at the network settings. WIFI is now off. If that is the case how do I connect to the guide service? Does the MOCA connection include WiFi in the background?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> Actually everything is working now except for the all of a sudden outage of both cable and internet with TDS.
> 
> While waiting for the TDS agent to do her thing I looked at the network settings. WIFI is now off. If that is the case how do I connect to the guide service? Does the MOCA connection include WiFi in the background?


I'm confused as to what is now working and what isn't.

If you successfully configured a BOLT as a MoCA client, that BOLT would no longer be using Wi-Fi; it would be networked via MoCA. And you should be able to perform a manual service connection on the BOLT, stream from Netflix, etc.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

As a precaution against some unexpected MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1 conflict, you might get into your gateway's MoCA settings and configure the gateway's MoCA bridge to operate at a different frequency, at 1350 MHz or higher. _(Though I'd think this *shouldn't* be necessary, on a gateway supporting MoCA bridging.)
_
edit: p.s. More on MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1 issues, >here<. But, again, I'd hope the MoCA-capable gateway wouldn't be operating at a frequency that would cause _itself_ a conflict.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

One other note Re: your Internet/cable outage ... given that you have a fiber-to-the-home setup, you don't require the "PoE" MoCA filter for securing your network. The MoCA signals won't travel beyond the RFoG terminal.

So... you could remove the "PoE" MoCA filter to see if doing so alters the status of your setup.


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

I think one of my post’s didn’t go through when the TDS outage occurred.

The moca is working. I went into the bedroom bolt did the steps in there and then everything connected. 

So you are saying since I am using moca I have to do a manual connection to get guide service? How will that work if the TiVos are not using WiFi any longer? Remember I don’t have an Ethernet connection or any ports to connect to.


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

I am on cable not fiber.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> So you are saying since I am using moca I have to do a manual connection to get guide service?


No, the manual service connection was just an example of something you could do to prove that the BOLT's network is functioning properly over the hard-wired MoCA connection. Streaming from the other BOLT, streaming from an Internet service are additional validation tests.

(Streaming between BOLTs may not be entirely reliable until both BOLTs are hard-wired via MoCA.)



dnorth12 said:


> How will that work if the TiVos are not using WiFi any longer? Remember I don't have an Ethernet connection or any ports to connect to.


The MoCA wired connection is the near-equivalent of your previous Ethernet connection; the BOLT will network over your coax, now, rather than Ethernet (as at your previous home) or Wi-Fi (as it did prior to getting the MoCA connection working).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> I am on cable not fiber.


The RFoG terminal that you provided a snapshot of begs to differ. 






​
RFoG (Radio Frequency Over Glass) is an alternate fiber solution, allowing backwards compatibility, in a sense; the fiber signal is converted to traditional coax (DOCSIS, QAM) for in-home use.

See here: RFoG ONU (R-ONU) CPE | CommScope

*edit: *p.s. Reading up on RFoG has me reverting to keeping the "PoE" MoCA filter in place (based on this article, until further research indicates otherwise).



> *MoCA Environments*
> 
> When deploying RF Overlay services in whole home DVR and Non-DVR environments using MoCA technology, keep the following in mind:
> 
> ...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> I think one of my post's didn't go through when the TDS outage occurred.


Is your TDS service (cable and Internet) restored?

Have you converted both BOLT DVRs to MoCA client connections?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Re: the ONU/ONT you found outside ... just be aware that the power block in the closet cabinet is remotely supplying power to the ONT, so don't unplug that power adapter ... unless you want your Internet and TV service to die. Further, you probably want to get the ONT's power adapter (and the gateway) plugged-in to a UPS, to avoid Internet/TV outages during any power blips.


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## dnorth12 (Feb 10, 2005)

TDS outage is over with. Appears someone cut a cable in a town 40 miles away. Large area affected.

And I am up and running. Both Bolts can communicate with each other. I can watch shows from one to the other. I can not transfer though. Not that that is that big of a deal. Been awhile and if I remember correctly that has to do with TiVo online. And TiVo online appears to be offline or stuck for the last couple days. Just a spinning icon. Never loads.

I really want to thank you for your assistance. Made this an easy process.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dnorth12 said:


> TDS outage is over with. Appears someone cut a cable in a town 40 miles away. Large area affected.


What a bizarre, unfortunate coincidence.



dnorth12 said:


> And I am up and running. Both Bolts can communicate with each other. I can watch shows from one to the other. I can not transfer though. ...
> 
> I really want to thank you for your assistance. Made this an easy process.


Great to hear, and you're quite welcome. Gotta do what I can to keep the TiVo customer base from imploding.  And thank you for closing the thread off with the feedback that you're operational; it doesn't always happen.

And, yeah, if on TE4, you're more vulnerable to TiVo server issues. One of the many annoying design choices of TE4.

Well, once you feel comfortable with the setup, keep the earlier post regarding piggybacking your networking off the BOLTs' unused Ethernet ports in mind.

And know that you can leverage your coax plant and MoCA to further extend networking to other rooms, as well, wherever you have a connected coax wall outlet and a wired Ethernet connection would be of benefit. Post back if you need more info on that front.


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