# Videoredo w .H264



## OOOOPS! (Aug 7, 2003)

Is there a h264 output profile for TivoHDXL or a list of VideRedo settings someplace? I've searched but have not found it. 
Thanks,
OOOOPS!


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

What are you trying to do? I use VideoRedo Plus for editing/commercial removal/ quickstream processing, and RipBot to produce mp4's for upload via pytivo.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Stuxnet said:


> What are you trying to do? I use VideoRedo Plus for editing/commercial removal/ quickstream processing, and RipBot to produce mp4's for upload via pytivo.


Sounds like he's trying to find out how to encode a video in H.264 that a Tivo will accept. VRD v4 allows for a manual configuration profile.
I know there is a way to encode a .mp4 file that can be pushed to a Tivo with PyTivo that doesn't require an "on the fly" recode, but I don't know the parameters and had a hard time searching for them, so I'm no help. 

What profile do you use in RipBot? I'm guessing mp4 is your container, but what format is the video and audio?


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## OOOOPS! (Aug 7, 2003)

Steve614 is right. I am trying to use VideoRedo to encode to H.264 so that I only have to use one program. I've been using VideoRedo for editing and the quick stream fix feature, but would like to use it for encoding if the results are acceptable. I am curenly using HandbrakeCLI and a bat file as suggested here. Quality for SD video is great with a much smaller file size. PyTivo transfers it without transcoding. I have found references to ad a xml file as an encoding profile, but have not been able to find the proper file or instructions for importing it into a profile or perhaps it should be imported as a profile.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I tried to give videoredo another try again this weekend. Its been over a year since I tried it last. Alas, it still does not fully support tivo format files, nor android smartphones. I could find no way to build a profile or preset for tivo compatible mp4 files. And of course they are not included. No easy way to set the h.264 AVC profile level and max reference frames, or ac3 audio in the device profile.

The editing of mpeg video was interesting several years ago but way past the times now. Its a nice program that seems to be way behind the current state of the art. If its behind Tivo you KNOW they are out of touch.

Sorry, but just not a go for $100. Not even close when free tools far surpass its capabilites on modern formats. Really looks like a company trying to milk profits from programming done years ago. To bad too.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jcthorne said:


> I tried to give videoredo another try again this weekend. Its been over a year since I tried it last. Alas, it still does not fully support tivo format files, nor android smartphones. I could find no way to build a profile or preset for tivo compatible mp4 files. And of course they are not included. No easy way to set the h.264 AVC profile level and max reference frames, or ac3 audio in the device profile.
> .........


What build did you test? In build 604 the following was added:


> For H.264 recodes, you can tweak settings such as profile, level, reference frame counts, by clicking on the Advanced tab in the profile editor.


It has been possible and not difficult to create modified output profiles and save them for many months.

I do believe there is an important limitation regarding AC3 encoding, i.e, VRD doesn't do it. However it will pass existing AC3 tracks thru from input to output. If your input has 5.1 AC3, VRD should pass it thru AFAIK. If it has 2 channel audio VRD can encode it to AAC in the output (which TiVo accepts), or pass it thru if it's AC3.


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## OOOOPS! (Aug 7, 2003)

@dlfl I'm trying to edit and save a lot of childrens shows. would you happen to have a saved profile or two available. 
Thanks,
OOOOPS


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I downloaded the current version from the web site and applied for and recieved a trial key. There were no options in the profile settings page for levels or reference frame limits. AC3 was not an available option under the list of output audio codecs. I did not see an 'advanced' tab nor did the instructions for the profile page mention one. Tivo is not on the list of predefined devices either. Perhaps they do not make a current version available for the trial.

No AC3 coding is a non starter. Cannot even be added by the user? Why on earth would they have such silly limitations if they are trying to compete in this market? Provide a whole solution or don't bother. I can piece together a solution from various utilities now.

Thanks for the info but it looks like yet again, VRD is just not up to the task for prepping tivo media on its own. I'll continue with meGUI which, while not user friendly, does the whole job. If they ever add the missing functionality, I may give it another try. I was willing to spend the $$ if it made my work flow easier or more fun but....not if its not functional.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

OOOOPS! said:


> @dlfl I'm trying to edit and save a lot of childrens shows. would you happen to have a saved profile or two available.
> Thanks,
> OOOOPS


The profile depends on the input parameters and the desired output parameters. Perhaps if you posted the HandbrakeCLI options you use in your batch file that would help.

BTW, VAP (link in signature) will automatically manage VRD processing and run a VAPpostProcess.cmd file in which HandbrakeCLI processing can be done.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jcthorne said:


> I downloaded the current version from the web site and applied for and recieved a trial key. There were no options in the profile settings page for levels or reference frame limits. AC3 was not an available option under the list of output audio codecs. I did not see an 'advanced' tab nor did the instructions for the profile page mention one. Tivo is not on the list of predefined devices either. Perhaps they do not make a current version available for the trial.
> 
> No AC3 coding is a non starter. Cannot even be added by the user? Why on earth would they have such silly limitations if they are trying to compete in this market? Provide a whole solution or don't bother. I can piece together a solution from various utilities now.
> 
> Thanks for the info but it looks like yet again, VRD is just not up to the task for prepping tivo media on its own. I'll continue with meGUI which, while not user friendly, does the whole job. If they ever add the missing functionality, I may give it another try. I was willing to spend the $$ if it made my work flow easier or more fun but....not if its not functional.


It's a quirk of VRD policy that you have to get the lastest beta build (now 624) to get all the features, although I thought the current distribution was build 610 which should have the advanced settings for H.264 profile, level, etc.

What kind of audio do your input files have? In what container? I'm trying to imagine a case where VRD's ability to pass thru the input AC3 tracks, or encode to 2-channel AAC audio, would not be sufficient.

What do you do to clean up time stamp errors and other problems that occur in some input files? VRD excels at that and some folks purchase it just for that functionality alone while using other software for H.264 encoding.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

dlfl said:


> It's a quirk of VRD policy that you have to get the lastest beta build (now 624) to get all the features, although I thought the current distribution was build 610 which should have the advanced settings for H.264 profile, level, etc.
> 
> What kind of audio do your input files have? In what container? I'm trying to imagine a case where VRD's ability to pass thru the input AC3 tracks, or encode to 2-channel AAC audio, would not be sufficient.
> 
> What do you do to clean up time stamp errors and other problems that occur in some input files? VRD excels at that and some folks purchase it just for that functionality alone while using other software for H.264 encoding.


I did not see an option to dl the beta before purchase but I'll take your word on the h.264 levels being available now.

I get video in many formats, all ends up as tivo/wdtv/android compatible mp4s with h264 video and ac3 audio. I start with mpeg, avi (rarely anymore), mkv and wmv, BR and DVD rips. Audio can be PCM, Mp3, aac, DTS or ac3 but even the ac3 track often need work to play correctly with proper track placement and removal of dialog normalization or fixing a 5.1 track that really only contains a stereo pair of data with silence on the other tracks.

Megui's indexer does a fine job maintaining audio/video sync if its ok in the original file. I seldom will take the time to correct a file that is not correct incomming. In the last year or so, it just has not been the problem it used to be.

With what you say on the profiles, it looks like if VRD could handle the ac3 encoding it would be mostly complete even though I would need to try a few files. Any chance they are working on ac3 encoding for a near term addition?

I appreciate your discussion. I wanted this to work as the interface looks far improved from what I use in megui and could improve my workflow steps.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'm surprised that Dan203 hasn't chimed in yet.

He's the one person who could answer all these questions.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Hey guys, sorry I missed this until now.

You should try the latest beta...

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=24328

We're a little behind on the release versions*, but the beta should be able to create a file that can be pushed to a TiVo without modification. Just open the TiVo file, make your edits and save to H264 MP4. There shouldn't be any need to mess with the advanced settings unless you want finer grain control.

Dan

* I actually don't have any control over when we put out release builds. DanR, the owner of the company, decides when to do that. However the current release build, 610, is really old and there have been a ton of changes and fixes since it was put out.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jcthorne said:


> I get video in many formats, all ends up as tivo/wdtv/android compatible mp4s with h264 video and ac3 audio. I start with mpeg, avi (rarely anymore), mkv and wmv, BR and DVD rips. Audio can be PCM, Mp3, aac, DTS or ac3 but even the ac3 track often need work to play correctly with proper track placement and removal of dialog normalization or fixing a 5.1 track that really only contains a stereo pair of data with silence on the other tracks.


Sounds like your usage is beyond what VRD is capable of. The main purpose of VRD is to open and edit TV shows recorded with a DVR or HTPC. We've added support for a few extra formats over the years, and added a recode engine for outputting to specific devices, but our main focus is still editing TV shows that you record yourself on a DVR or HTPC.

Supporting every format and codec out there is nearly impossible. There are products that cost 5x as much that don't even do that.

Dan


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jcthorne said:


> Sorry, but just not a go for $100. Not even close when free tools far surpass its capabilites on modern formats. Really looks like a company trying to milk profits from programming done years ago. To bad too.


Unfortunately there is no way for us to compete with these "free" programs when it comes to format support. They skate the law by releasing source code only (builds are done by 3rd parties) and claiming it's only for "academic purposes". With a commercial product you have to pay a licensing fee for every codec you use and some of them, like AC3 5.1, cost more per license then the entire VideoReDo product.

As for us "trying to milk profits from programming done years ago"... I assure you that's not true. When I started here 5 years ago we were selling VideoReDo Plus v2.0. If you were to compare that to the current version of TVSuite v4 you'd see that there are a TON of new features that have been added. They may not all benefit you specifically, but they all took a lot time and effort to add.

Dan


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Have you given any thought to supporting a third party plug in for AC3 encode support. IE let the user install the codec or library if desired. Many commercial programs are distributed without the third party codecs just because of this reason.

Without the ability to encode to AC3, one cannot build tivo compliant mp4 files with 5.1 sound. It really looks like almost everything else is there.

If you really believe your product is only focused on users that want to edit video from thier dvr, they you really need to broaden your focus a bit. Many of your features already do and have no direct application for mpeg2 dvr recordings.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

I'm not 100% sure but I think VRD will pass through AC3 if the source has AC3 audio. It won't encode audio which isn't already AC3 to AC3.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jcthorne said:


> Have you given any thought to supporting a third party plug in for AC3 encode support. IE let the user install the codec or library if desired. Many commercial programs are distributed without the third party codecs just because of this reason.


Most commercial products don't work quite like VRD with regard to smart editing. If everything we did required a full recode then we could just use DirectShow and allow the user to open and output to any codec installed on their system. But with our smart rendering technology we need more fine grain control over the individual codecs. We have considered offering an add-on pack that included a 5.1 encoder for an additional cost, but I'm not sure when/if that's going to happen.



jcthorne said:


> Without the ability to encode to AC3, one cannot build tivo compliant mp4 files with 5.1 sound. It really looks like almost everything else is there.


If the source file has AC3 it will be passed through. If not then it will be recoded to AAC. Both of which should work with TiVo.

One exception is that by default we also pass through MP2 audio to MP4. I'm not sure if TiVo likes that. You may need to force an audio recode to AAC if the source has MP2.



jcthorne said:


> If you really believe your product is only focused on users that want to edit video from thier dvr, they you really need to broaden your focus a bit. Many of your features already do and have no direct application for mpeg2 dvr recordings.


We know that people don't use VRD exclusively for that purpose, but our core user base is still DVR users wanting to edit shows they record themselves. We try to add additional features where we can when we can, but our focus is still on the core product.

Dan


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> If the source file has AC3 it will be passed through. If not then it will be recoded to AAC. Both of which should work with TiVo.
> 
> One exception is that by default we also pass through MP2 audio to MP4. I'm not sure if TiVo likes that. You may need to force an audio recode to AAC if the source has MP2.
> 
> Dan


Just FYI, no, Tivo does not support mp2 audio in an mp4 container. Also AAC audio with more than 2 channels is not supported so encoding to AAC is not an option for prepping mp4 files for Tivo. Its pretty much 5.1 AC3 or nothing.

I hope one of these days VRD decides to offer the tools needed to prepare files FOR the dvr not just files FROM the dvr. As the number of cord cutters increases the user base will increase significantly. There is a real need for an easy to use tool for this in the market. Yes, free stuff does work in a fashion but its far from user friendly and takes many tools to do the job.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jcthorne said:


> Just FYI, no, Tivo does not support mp2 audio in an mp4 container. Also AAC audio with more than 2 channels is not supported so encoding to AAC is not an option for prepping mp4 files for Tivo. Its pretty much 5.1 AC3 or nothing.


As I said above if the audio is already AC3 then it will be pass through to the MP4 with no loss or recoding. And if the audio is some other format you can simply recode it to AAC 2.0. Both will create a TiVo compatible file.

The only situation where you would lose surround sound is if the source file had AAC 5.1, since TiVo doesn't support that and there is no AC3 encoder to convert it, or if you attempt to adjust the volume which will force a recode to AAC.

The one other thing you have to watch out for is if the source file has MP2 or PCM audio that will be pass through by default. Since TiVo doesn't support it you will need to either create a custom profile or click the Options button in the Save dialog to manually set the audio format to AAC.

Dan


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

If one were going to purchase Videoredo, are there any secret handshakes, coupon codes or other methods of obtaining a discount off the retail pricing? I noticed dvrupgrade has it for a few $$ less. Is there any disadvantage of purchasing there?


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Can someone that uses VRD help me with a suggested work flow.

I get a video off the tivo and its stored as an mpg file by pytivo. I open that file in VRD. Should I run quick stream fix on it before cutting the commercials or does cutting and saving accomplish the QSF as part of the process? Or should I run QSF on the saved file after cutting? I am saving to an mpg file and doing the recode elsewhere so just need help with the editing side for now.

Thanks


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

When I have the need to run QSF, I do it before editing.

I don't know what exactly QSF does, but you may not need to run QSF every time, unless the file has some serious time stamp issues or the A/V is out of sync.
I get my recordings from OTA and I rarely have to run QSF.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

jcthorne said:


> Can someone that uses VRD help me with a suggested work flow.
> 
> I get a video off the tivo and its stored as an mpg file by pytivo. I open that file in VRD. Should I run quick stream fix on it before cutting the commercials or does cutting and saving accomplish the QSF as part of the process? Or should I run QSF on the saved file after cutting? I am saving to an mpg file and doing the recode elsewhere so just need help with the editing side for now.
> 
> Thanks


 The issue I have is some recordings have multiple video dimensions in them (commercials different resolution than main program) as well as timestamp errors, so unless I ran qsfix with video dimensions filter I can't edit them in VRD. So personally any video I'm going to do further processing on I run through VRD qsfix w/ video filter enabled before anything else. Even if you don't have multiple video dimensions qsfix fixes timestamp errors which helps significantly avoid A/V sync issues further down the processing tree.


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## txporter (Sep 18, 2006)

jcthorne said:


> Can someone that uses VRD help me with a suggested work flow.
> 
> I get a video off the tivo and its stored as an mpg file by pytivo. I open that file in VRD. Should I run quick stream fix on it before cutting the commercials or does cutting and saving accomplish the QSF as part of the process? Or should I run QSF on the saved file after cutting? I am saving to an mpg file and doing the recode elsewhere so just need help with the editing side for now.
> 
> Thanks


This is my workflow for pulling video off of my Tivos for editting:

Open up kmttg
Connect to Tivo I want to download from
Highlight programs I want to download
Start job with decrypt, VRD QS Fix, Ad detect checked
After download is complete and .Vprj file is created, I open project in VRD and verify the cut points
Click Save As to save output file as .mpg without commercials
Take output video and transcode (if that is intent)

I run everything through QSF before doing anything to it. I do not use Video Dimension filters. I haven't had a need, but I also can't download programs from anything but networks so perhaps I don't need to worry about rez changed due to this?? I use comskip instead of VideoRedo for Ad detection, but that can be configured in the kmttg setup. I generate metadata at the end using pytivometathis.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Thanks for all the help. I think I have it running well for the moment running a similar path to txporter but using pytivo for the dl and decrypt. Then VRD for QSD and ad removal, meGUI for the encode.


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

jcthorne said:


> Thanks for all the help. I think I have it running well for the moment running a similar path to txporter but using pytivo for the dl and decrypt. Then VRD for QSD and ad removal, meGUI for the encode.


And I do a hybrid of y'all... DL/decode w/kmttg, the QS/Ad Detect followed by manual check (all under VRD+/VAP), then off to RipBot for mp4 processing.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

steve614 said:


> I don't know what exactly QSF does, but you may not need to run QSF every time


QSF basically just remuxes the file and recalculates the time stamps.

The only time you need to run QSF is if...

1) The file will not open at all in the main UI

2) The file opens but the duration is way off

3) You experience issues seeking in the file while editing

4) The file contains multiple resolutions. (For this you need to run with "Enable Filters" enabled)

Dan


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> QSF basically just remuxes the file and recalculates the time stamps.
> 
> The only time you need to run QSF is if...


Is there any harm in running QSF routinely? It makes batching conversions simpler.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I don't think there's any harm in running QSF. It's just an extra step that may not be needed.
If you have things automated where that extra step is negligible and makes things easier for you, it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks... I usually batch run this overnight w/VAP and the next day I tweak the project files for commercial removal.


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