# Small time adjustment control



## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

We need a small time adjustment ability in Tivo. With all of the encrypting/decrypting, digitizing, sending to and from satellites, and other manipulations that video now goes through, by the time my tivo gets the picture to me, it is NOT at the exact hour mark. 

What I mean is that when I set my Tivo to record a program at 8 pm, for example, The Tivo WILL start recording at 8pm, but due to delivery delays in getting the signal from the broadcasters, the program content is actually about 5-7 seconds behind. This results in seeing the last 5 seconds of the previous show (not a big issue), BUT also MISSING the last 5 seconds of the show I'm recording (always the last little blurb).
I know about the record extension setting, but that is based on a minute increment, and that also screws up the next recording. 

Can't we have a 'broadcast delay' setting, so that we can compensate for the delay? 

This would not be very involved, and Tivo could brag about their unit actually recording the entire show! Please?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

There is something called "padding", it is under Options of the season pass or to set the recording. You highlight record or season pass and press right arrow to options. You can then set to start early or end late by 1 min to 3 hrs. 1 min is the shortest possible.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> There is something called "padding", it is under Options of the season pass or to set the recording. You highlight record or season pass and press right arrow to options. You can then set to start early or end late by 1 min to 3 hrs. 1 min is the shortest possible.


I know about the padding. 1 minute is WAY too long. That also will mess up all of the adjacent programming.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

With the Roamio and 4+ tuners, that would not matter much any more.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Broadcasters do this on purpose, for the sole reason of keeping eyeballs on their channel.
If TiVo were to do something to alleviate this problem, the broadcasters would just find another way to annoy us.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

Broadcasters are NOT doing this, the delays in processing the signals are the culprits. The broadcasters ARE starting their programs exactly on time (with exception of a couple), but by the time it ends up at the consumer, it is delayed. 

Also, I have a XL4, 4 tuner unit, but there are many times where I am recording more that a couple of shows, and extending them can't be done, without losing content.

This seems like such a simple request, why is Tivo more and more deaf to helping their customers? They don't seem to worry about fixing problems in their hardware quickly.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

No, tivo offers padding, that gets the job done. A simple request, to be sure, but likely a huge headache to implement and manage, thus padding. How is this a hardware problem? I don't understand that claim at all. THanks.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> No, tivo offers padding, that gets the job done. A simple request, to be sure, but likely a huge headache to implement and manage, thus padding. How is this a hardware problem? I don't understand that claim at all. THanks.


Padding is TOO much time to add to a program, and it throws off the adjacent programs. Please read ALL of the posting.

I was not talking about this issue being a hardware issue. Tivo has ignored other hardware issues before.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I don't think reading comprehension is the problem. What you want is for TiVo to change the padding options to include shorter increments of time.
While I agree that would be nice, I don't think it will ever happen. At least not from the suggestions avenue on this forum.
I would suggest to you that you post this over at TiVo's official support forum (http://forums.tivo.com/pe/elementDisplayRedirect.jsp?elementID=10100105), AND use the feature request form on TiVo's website (http://advisors.tivo.com/wix5/p2272893819.aspx).
Good luck.


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## bikegeek (Dec 28, 2006)

Those that say to just use padding do not have the problem. I do have the problem and need to pad every recording and season pass. When I have all four tuners recording, the beginning of the following shows gets chopped off. If Tivo could give us the ability to shift our clocks by a few seconds, everything would be great.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

bikegeek said:


> Those that say to just use padding do not have the problem. I do have the problem and need to pad every recording and season pass. When I have all four tuners recording, the beginning of the following shows gets chopped off. If Tivo could give us the ability to shift our clocks by a few seconds, everything would be great.


Thank you for understanding my problem. Having to pad EVERYTHING I want to record by a minute, doesn't seem like a reasonable solution. A simple 'system' pad by seconds would not be a difficult addition, but would solve a growing issue.

The delay WILL get worse and worse as more signal processing gets implemented to distribute programming. Digitizing, broadcasting through multiple satellites, encrypting, and other enhancements will result in longer and longer delays. Why not address it now?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I understand completely. I normally just don't care enough to worry about 20 seconds of content, but understand that others do. However, padding completely gets the job done to get the content, though I agree is a bit clunky. I was explaining it, not defending it. 

My only real comment was regarding your claim about fixing hardware problems, which you have not responded to, and that a simple request is not necessarily simple to implement.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> My only real comment was regarding your claim about fixing hardware problems, which you have not responded to, and that a simple request is not necessarily simple to implement.


Tivo has a tendency to not react to issues that it's customers have. When issues are reported to them, they don't respond, and take forever to finally correct the issue, if at all. It's not just a debugging time issue. They don't seem to care about working on an issue 24/7 until it's fixed. Just Google various Tivo issues (like the time that Tivo Desktop Plus quit working), or read the posts on the forums.

i.e. - I have mentioned THIS issue several times to them (both on the phone, and in survey responses) to no avail. My hope is by doing it in the forums, perhaps it may fall on the right ear to get it corrected.

I have been an avid Tivo user since Series 1 came out, and have owned Series 1, Series 2, DirectTivo, Series 3, and now Premeire XL4. I love my Tivos, but just wish they cared more about us, instead of their bottom line.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That is fine, I think we would all enjoy faster bug fixing and more features. All of your discussion seems to be software related. I still do not understand your comment about hardware issues, as none have been listed or described. 

Seems that Tivo needs to be especially worried about their bottom line as they continue to not be profitable from ongoing operations. 

Finally, I'll note that Premieres continue to get software updates, which is nice as most tech companies would only be concentrating on enhancing the latest and greatest.


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## richbrew (Feb 6, 2002)

I don't see how such a setting would be any more complicated than a time zone setting, just on a smaller scale. Clock adjustment -15 (Tivo time -15 seconds) where the number can be selected in increments of 1 second to allow people to fine tune the TiVo's clock to match their local provider. Another option would be to disable automatic time sync when calling home, and allow users to manually set the clock on their TiVo.


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## bikegeek (Dec 28, 2006)

richbrew said:


> I don't see how such a setting would be any more complicated than a time zone setting, just on a smaller scale. Clock adjustment -15 (Tivo time -15 seconds) where the number can be selected in increments of 1 second to allow people to fine tune the TiVo's clock to match their local provider. Another option would be to disable automatic time sync when calling home, and allow users to manually set the clock on their TiVo.


Seems like it would be easy to just adjust the clock by that factor when it does it's timesync during the daily service connection.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo is not a huge fan of adding options. Especially speciality options like this. They do appear to be working on a new feature that allows back to back recordings on the same channel use a single tuner even if there is padding so that it doesn't require as many tuners to pad everything. Once they get it perfected I'm hoping they'll add a feature that automatically pads the start and end of all recordings as long as it doesn't cause a conflict. That way we wont have to worry about manually padding everything.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo is not a huge fan of adding options. Especially speciality options like this. They do appear to be working on a new feature that allows back to back recordings on the same channel use a single tuner even if there is padding so that it doesn't require as many tuners to pad everything. Once they get it perfected I'm hoping they'll add a feature that automatically pads the start and end of all recordings as long as it doesn't cause a conflict. That way we wont have to worry about manually padding everything.


Dan, Why should I have to PAD EVERY recording that I want to do? That sounds like a workaround instead of a fix. I'm supposed to be able to 'press record', and get my program, but now Tivo says oh, by the way, you also have to go and PAD your program, if you want to see ALL of it? And BTW, every season pass you enter, you'll need to PAD those too...

Not very consumer friendly. They worked so hard to make the remote control 'consumer friendly', but don't want to add an option to make recording 'consumer friendly'?

BTW, has anyone noticed the bug on an XL4, where if you have two programs paused, and Tivo needs to do a recording, it will take one of your paused channels, instead of one of the unused channels? Four tuners guys! Why can't you leave what I'm currently watching alone?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

bikegeek said:


> Seems like it would be easy to just adjust the clock by that factor when it does it's timesync during the daily service connection.


One of the complications is that each channel is delayed/early by a little bit different amount. You cannot count on anything being timely, as the local affiliates do not care, nor do they need to care. Messing with a DVR is a clear intent of some shows- 20 second "blurbs" are of a benefit to nobody but those without a DVR.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I understand what you're saying I'm just saying that such a feature is unlikely. I also think it would ultimately cause you more problems then it would solve. While it may seem like your recordings are consistently off by 15 seconds I bet if you were to adjust the clock you'd notice others that were off by 15 seconds in the opposite direction.

The system I purposed would be an automatic padding option requiring no intervention from you. Windows Media center does it right now. Basically as long as it doesn't cause any conflicts all recordings will have 1 minute of padding added to the start and end automatically. And with the new feature they're working on to allow back to back recordings to share a tuner this automatic padding would be applied to most, if not all, recordings so you'd never really have to worry about it again.

As for your XL4 bug... The tuners are numbered 0-3, TiVo will always use the lowest numbered tuner that is not in the foreground. If you make sure to use tuners 2 & 3 for this then it will never be a problem.


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## gra69 (May 31, 2003)

BTW, I filed an incident report/request about this back in 2011. Tivo has yet to try and do something about it. Here is what they said back then:

_We are always looking for new way to improve TiVo usage and resolve issues like this. I can definitely post this suggestion to our correct area for possible addition. Generally we do get quite a few requests to add a better scheduler or sliding buffer to stop those couple minutes to seconds from being cut off. _

So, they do say that they get quite a few people interested in this 'fix', but 2 1/2 years later, they still haven't done ANYTHING about it.

Thanks Tivo!


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Obviously, they feel its not a big deal -or- that it is too big of a deal to work with considering much more functional issues and bug fixes that cause reboots, missed shows, and slow interface speed. In other words, they may well have done something about it buy not doing anything about it.

I'm not saying a different method to deal with short/long shows would not be great. I'm just saying its not a priority to Tivo considering that padding works for getting the content. The new guide, speed enhancements, and season pass manager are all clearly more important to Tivo. You may or may not agree that those are more valuable enhancements, which is fine. 

I would put your tuner bug issue way higher on the annoyance scale, IMO.


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

Over the years (since 2004) I've learned to adapt to TiVo's shortcomings rather than rely on its engineers to fix the numerous bugs and annoyances we expect to be absent from a premium DVR.

In this case, you'll have to pad your favorite shows one minute, use the Season Pass manager to prioritize your favorite shows above those you can live with getting clipped, and check your To Do list daily to modify the padding on anything that you don't want clipped.

It's sad TiVo engineers can't simply add a 10-second padding option to the existing 11 options but we must deal with the current limitations.



gra69 said:


> I filed an incident report/request about this back in 2011... they still haven't done anything about it.


I've been sending TiVo a feature request for this exact issue every month since 2009. All we can do is hope others find this thread and join the petition.

http://advisors.tivo.com/wix5/p2272893819.aspx

_I wish my TiVo DVR could do this:_
Option to add less than a minute of padding to scheduled recordings.

_And here is the reason why:_
Programs on certain channels, such as Discovery and History, are regularly cut off at the last 10 seconds as final narration is still in progress. I want to pad programs on these problematic channels with just a few extra seconds rather than a full minute.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I also think it would ultimately cause you more problems then it would solve. While it may seem like your recordings are consistently off by 15 seconds I bet if you were to adjust the clock you'd notice others that were off by 15 seconds in the opposite direction.


I agree. I don't believe every channel/station adheres to syncing their clocks to the Atomic standard or even with each other. I'd bet the engineers just use their watches and think "that's close enough". 

And I don't care what anyone else thinks, I stand by my statement that it is done on purpose in some cases. Modern Family and the show after it is the perfect example. 
ABC purposely runs Modern Family long in order to keep eyeballs on their station in the hopes you'll stay and watch the lesser rated show after it in that hour time slot. Want proof? Look at the guide. MF is shown to air from 8:00pm (Central time) to 8:31pm and the show after is from 8:31pm to 9:00pm, but if you look at the program info for MF and the show after, you'll see that the actual duration for MF is listed as 32 minutes, while the show after has a duration of 29 minutes. How did that extra minute get in there? 



Dan203 said:


> They do appear to be working on a new feature that allows back to back recordings on the same channel use a single tuner even if there is padding so that it doesn't require as many tuners to pad everything. Once they get it perfected I'm hoping they'll add a feature that automatically pads the start and end of all recordings as long as it doesn't cause a conflict. That way we wont have to worry about manually padding everything.


I think this may actually be TiVo's answer to this problem. IF they can get it perfected, the Tivo would recognize that multiple programs are being recorded on the same channel back to back, and just record the whole block.
It would later be able to copy the wanted padding to the end of the first recording AND to the beginning of the next.
You'd end up with unwanted material at the end of the first recording and at the beginning of the second, but at least each recording would be saved in its entirety.
If TiVo can do this, there would be no need to add "seconds" to the padding options and no need to manually adjust the clock.


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

steve614 said:


> ABC purposely runs Modern Family long in order to keep eyeballs on their station in the hopes you'll stay and watch the lesser rated show after it


Certain shows, like ABC's Modern Family, consistently run long by the same amount of time every episode, so you know to pad the Season Pass.

There was a bit of controversy about a year ago when viewers of NBC's Grimm got caught off guard when a couple of episodes were unexpectedly clipped. The show never needed padding before this incident and only certain regions were affected:

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501902

The point is that you must be vigilant with your favorite shows and pad those that seem to get cut off all the time, and check TCF for spoilers if the DVR stopped recording before an episode ended.


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