# how well does ota work on a tivo Premiere?



## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Does the Premiere ota work better then the tivo hd ota? The Premiere should have newer and better ota tuners then the tivo hd. i thimk


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I believe they use the same hardware and how well they work depends on where your OTA signals come from, and your antenna's ability to pull them in.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

tootal2 said:


> Does the Premiere ota work better then the tivo hd ota? The Premiere should have newer and better ota tuners then the tivo hd. i thimk


The TiVo HD and the Premiere use the same tuner chips, but something (the demodulator, I think) is greatly improved. On distant stations (about 70 miles in my case) reception is similar, but on a couple of local stations with severe multipath, the Premiere often has orders of magnitude fewer uncorrected errors. Those two stations are almost always watchable (and sometimes perfect) on the Premiere, but they are often unwatchable on the TiVo HD. I have posted about this several times. I'm OTA only.


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## tazmandman (Sep 10, 2011)

I just recently upgraded to a Premiere from an HD and it was the same as far as OTA channels/quality coming in. 

I upgraded my OTA Antenna and got more channels with less interference, so from my experience I haven't seen any difference.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Hard to answer the question - so much of OTA reception depends on the distance you are from the towers and the type of antenna you have.

For me, an Original Series 3 and a Premiere XL tuned the same stations stronger/quicker than a TiVo HD (same location, antenna, etc), but when I got a better antenna for my location reception was improved on all. I would avoid a THD as a primary OTA box if that is an option, but it can work fine.

For other reasons, I am going to an all Premiere network, including one OTA only box.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

tivo premiere is 19.95 a month? think i will stay with my tivo s2 and tivo hd. 
What happen to 12.95 a month tivo?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

L David Matheny said:


> The TiVo HD and the Premiere use the same tuner chips, but something (the demodulator, I think) is greatly improved. On distant stations (about 70 miles in my case) reception is similar, but on a couple of local stations with severe multipath, the Premiere often has orders of magnitude fewer uncorrected errors. Those two stations are almost always watchable (and sometimes perfect) on the Premiere, but they are often unwatchable on the TiVo HD. I have posted about this several times. I'm OTA only.


Any idea how the original S3 tuners compare to the HD and Premiere?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

unitron said:


> Any idea how the original S3 tuners compare to the HD and Premiere?


I have no experience with the original TiVo Series3, but it is also included in the table in this FAQ. Apparently it uses the same demodulator ICs as the TiVo HD, so I wouldn't expect it to handle multipath any better, and it uses Philips tuners, which I'm guessing TiVo dropped for a reason (when they switched to Microtune).


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

unitron said:


> Any idea how the original S3 tuners compare to the HD and Premiere?


I can't answer that for the current firmware in the Premieres (I was hoping to find a positive answer to that here). But I can say definitely that last summer, the tuners in the Premieres (or decoders, or the firmware controlling them) were substantially *worse* than the S3.

I went nuts adjusting my antenna, trying to get 2 problem channels here to lock in without glitching on my then-new Premiere, with no luck. Having swapped in the Premiere to replace my S3 that was slated to move to another room. I just happened to switch the antenna coax back over to my S3, and voila, perfect reception. Going back and forth between the two units with an identical signal showed a 5-6 dB S/N differential, and lots more Errors (correctable and not) on the Premiere. So my results were hardly surprising. I wrote about them here at the time.

Returned that unit to BB, and when I called into TiVo to cancel my Service on that box, got conned by a CSR promising me that the problems were known and had been corrected, and I could see for myself if I let him ship me a new Premiere. Seemed unlikely, but I went along. Got the new unit, wasted a lot of time testing and profiling it, and *exactly* the same (lack of) performance.

[IGNORABLE RANT: Unfortunately, I got stuck with that 2nd $200 Premiere, because I had a heart attack and couldn't ship it back before the RMA expired. And TiVo has repeatedly declined adding PLS on it for any reasonable price, so I could use it on cable, or at least dump it on eBay and get something out of it. So it's still sitting in the box a year later, unused, since they aren't worth anything anymore. Luckily though, that $200 loss was the knat's @ss on a $53k hospital bill.  And I'm still around to b!tch about it.]

Of course, if you have loads of signal strength, and no multipath problems, the tuners in the Premieres are just fine. Many have no problem with them at all. Some have noted that the *signal strength readout* on the Premieres is lower, but that's a relative indicator, and basically irrelevant. Whether the same signal shows 95% on one unit or 80% on the other makes no difference in the reception quality.

And for cable use, which is apparently where TiVo thinks everyone is going, it's a non-issue.


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## BetaMark (Jan 24, 2008)

Haven't had any OTA issues with our Premiere XL. Then again, we're pretty much line-of-sight with the antenna array at Mt. Wilson.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I have a Tivo HD and a Premiere sharing the same antenna.
I do not notice any difference in reception or PQ.

I did notice that the Premiere reports a lower signal level than the TivoHD.
AFAIK, no one has been able to explain why this is. 
I suspect it's a hardware thing.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

VideoGrabber said:


> I can't answer that for the current firmware in the Premieres (I was hoping to find a positive answer to that here). But I can say definitely that last summer, the tuners in the Premieres (or decoders, or the firmware controlling them) were substantially *worse* than the S3.
> 
> I went nuts adjusting my antenna, trying to get 2 problem channels here to lock in without glitching on my then-new Premiere, with no luck. Having swapped in the Premiere to replace my S3 that was slated to move to another room. I just happened to switch the antenna coax back over to my S3, and voila, perfect reception. Going back and forth between the two units with an identical signal showed a 5-6 dB S/N differential, and lots more Errors (correctable and not) on the Premiere. So my results were hardly surprising. I wrote about them here at the time.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the CSR lied to you. Although they may not have been aware that they were doing so, you bought on their assurance that the problem had been corrected, when in fact it had not been. They owe you a refund and you should give them hell until you get it.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

unitron said:


> Sounds like the CSR lied to you. Although they may not have been aware that they were doing so, you bought on their assurance that the problem had been corrected, when in fact it had not been. They owe you a refund and you should give them hell until you get it.


Thanks. Normally that would have been my reaction as well, from any company other than TiVo. But I've been with them from day one (what, 12 years and 6 TiVos now?), and talked to many of them over the years. And while someone there may not always know all the facts, they've always been helpful, considerate, and honest. I'd find deliberate deception to be very surprising.

However, I'm not exactly a rube, and the CSR was knowledgeable, articulate, and genuinely seemed to want to help. I'm not conned that easily, but his claims were very specific. Heck, I don't know... maybe he got a retention bonus or something for everyone he talked out of canceling service and sold them another Premiere.

And as far as me giving them hell demanding a refund, they already agreed to do so, and provided an RMA at the time. I just didn't happen to be in a position to take advantage of it, which is no fault of TiVo's. Afterwards, I just said, "oh well", and hoped that someday I could add PLS to it and sell it, or be able to use it if I returned to cable.

The key being PLS (which I have on both my S3 and my wife's.) Unfortunately, PLS has done nothing but go up since then, and Premiere hardware prices have dropped to dirt cheap. I just didn't get lucky on that. When they had the Premiere + Lifetime offer last week for $449 for anybody (not a current customer reward), I did call to see if they could add PLS to my non-activated Premiere (that I bought direct from them for $200), for the $250 difference. "_Sorry, no can do. $399 is the best we can offer, and only because you're a current owner eligible for MSD. Or you can just buy another Premiere for $449_." Ah, no thanks.

Thinking I'd give the Premiere OTA tuners another try for a month, to see if a year of updates had changed things any, I then asked about activating it with monthly, which I thought I qualified for a $9.99 monthly rate (based on MSD and when I bought it). But was told no, $14.99 was the best they could do with MSD, because they "_no longer consider when a unit was purchased_". Didn't sound right to me, but since I hadn't done my homework (and still haven't), I didn't argue with him.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

steve614 said:


> I have a Tivo HD and a Premiere sharing the same antenna. I do not notice any difference in reception or PQ.


In general, you won't. As long as your signal level is adequate, i.e., above a certain threshold level, they will seem identical. It's just when things drop lower to marginal that the differences become visible.



> I did notice that the Premiere reports a lower signal level than the TivoHD.


Yes, that's something that most find somewhat confusing. First off, the signal strength isn't an absolute measurement by any means. It's just a relative number, and frankly doesn't mean much, other than possibly to be useful for aiming an antenna. You can get just as good a digital picture with a 50% SS as 98% SS. You can compare numbers between 2 Premiere units (with the same software versions), but not between different models (Premiere and S3). Unfortunately, SS is the only measure easily visible.

What can be compared (on a buried diagnostic screen) is the SNR (signal to noise ratio). That's actually an absolute measurement (though not guaranteed to be calibrated and super accurate, it probably tracks within 1 dB). You generally find that cable signals are around 35 dB, strong antenna signals ~30+ dB, and good antenna signals anywhere from 20-30 dB. As it drops below 20 dB (or below 25 dB for those with multipath, which I apparently have), things become more problematic, and lock can be lost.

My Premiere could receive all of my channels just fine, with the exception of 2, that happened to be borderline, but I never knew it on my S3. My stations are 30-50 miles away, which is worse than what most folks deal with. On those two, SNR was consistently 5-6 dB lower on the Premiere than the S3, and breakups and glitches reflected that reality. I.e., it couldn't pull the signal out of the noise. Like everyone else, I assumed that a newer TiVo with newer hardware would be better than the multi-year older models, and not worse. So as I said, I was pretty surprised.  Actually, shocked would have been more accurate. 



> AFAIK, no one has been able to explain why this is.
> I suspect it's a hardware thing.


It might be, but I thought (and hoped) not. The tuners and decoders used are microprocessor-controlled, and have a number of (firmware) parameters that control their operation. When the S3 came out, TiVo spent some time tweaking these parameters to get the best results. Unfortunately, that hardware changed on the Premieres, so the same parameters no longer applied. And TiVo didn't take the time initially to tweak them, before releasing the new boxes. Maybe they still haven't, since OTA is not any kind of priority, AFAICT, but they certainly *could* do so. And there would be a radical difference, for those of us on the borderline.

Or maybe, as you suspect, the hardware is just crap, and this is a casualty of cost-cutting measures. I can't identify the reasons, only the results.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

unitron said:


> Sounds like the CSR lied to you. Although *they may not have been aware* that they were doing so,


I just went back and re-read this, and had to smile a bit. By definition, lying requires a knowledge that what you are saying is untrue. If he believed it was true, even if he was wrong, that's not lying.



> ...you bought on their assurance that the problem had been corrected, when in fact it had not been.


That part is absolutely true. If I had not been affirmatively told that the problem had absolutely been corrected, there is *no way* I would have agreed to having a second Premiere shipped out to me. Which resulted in a lot of time wasted while I did testing, and confirmed that _nothing had been fixed_.

Receiving a 2nd unit, unboxing, setting up, running tests, disconnecting, reboxing, and shipping back at my expense is something I *never* would have done on a 'maybe', for a unit I already knew I didn't want (at its current level of functionality), because it flat-out didn't work for me.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

L David Matheny said:


> I have no experience with the original TiVo Series3, but it is also included in the table in this FAQ. Apparently it uses the same demodulator ICs as the TiVo HD, so I wouldn't expect it to handle multipath any better, and it uses Philips tuners, which I'm guessing TiVo dropped for a reason (when they switched to Microtune).


I agree there must have been some reason. However, it is just as possible they did it because the Philips cost more, and even if the Microtune were worse, cost factors could win out.

I'm not saying this is the case, simply that your implication that they dropped Philips for Microtune because the Microtune were better, has no foundation.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

For those looking for insight on the OP's question, I would say that unless something I am unaware of has changed, that the TPs are *not* a good choice for those relying on antenna reception in a marginal situation.

*If* all your stations are close (within 20 miles), or high power, and you have no signal reflection problems, then the TP will be just fine, and you'll wonder why anyone is even discussing the issue. However, if your stations are 30 miles out or more, or you have multipath problems, the TP will *not* perform well, and will be easily bested by the older S3. If everyone was moving to cable, this would also be a non-issue. But with more folks cutting the cable, and moving to OTA, it's becoming a serious consideration.

And BTW, that's what I did. When I found that the TP simply didn't work for me with 2 of my local stations (glitching, freezes, and dropouts), I went out and bought a used S3 with PLS off eBay for my wife. And both our S3's have been working just fine, with no complaints, and no changes other than swapping an S3 for a TP. (Actually 2 different TPs that were tried.)

[And also BTW, I wasted a lot of time on my first TP, thinking that something *must* be wrong with my antenna, or signal chain. So hours were spent, checking connections, every link in the chain, re-aiming the antenna, evaluating the results, etc. I just couldn't get the darn thing to lock in. Then I happened to reconnect the S3, and bang, everything was fine again.

That's when it dawned on me, and I spent even more hours testing to determine the differences and characteristics which resulted in the problems. So what I'm relating to you here in a few moments is something I spent weeks farting around with, over a 2 month period, testing two separate TiVo Premieres. Including signal checks with an RF spectrum analyzer.]


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

VideoGrabber said:


> For those looking for insight on the OP's question, I would say that unless something I am unaware of has changed, that the TPs are *not* a good choice for those relying on antenna reception in a marginal situation.
> 
> *If* all your stations are close (within 20 miles), or high power, and you have no signal reflection problems, then the TP will be just fine, and you'll wonder why anyone is even discussing the issue. However, if your stations are 30 miles out or more, or you have multipath problems, the TP will *not* perform well, and will be easily bested by the older S3. If everyone was moving to cable, this would also be a non-issue. But with more folks cutting the cable, and moving to OTA, it's becoming a serious consideration.
> 
> ...


I'm OTA only. I've never used an original S3, but my Premiere (with WD20EVDS 2TB drive) works as well for stations about 70 miles away as my TiVo HD (both fed from a C.M. 4228 antenna and a C.M. 7777 preamp). And the Premiere has fewer uncorrected errors (sometimes by a factor of 100 or more) than the TiVo HD on a couple of local stations which I believe have severe multipath. I have posted about this before. I believe your account of your experiences, but I wanted to restate the other side of the OTA issue. I suppose the differences could conceivably be explained by the different tuner chips in the original S3 and the TiVo HD, but I do find that hard to believe.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

L David Matheny said:


> I'm OTA only. I've never used an original S3, but my Premiere (with WD20EVDS 2TB drive) works as well for stations about 70 miles away as my TiVo HD (both fed from a C.M. 4228 antenna and a C.M. 7777 preamp). And the Premiere has fewer uncorrected errors (sometimes by a factor of 100 or more) than the TiVo HD on a couple of local stations which I believe have severe multipath. I have posted about this before.
> 
> I believe your account of your experiences, but I wanted to restate the other side of the OTA issue. I suppose the differences could conceivably be explained by the different tuner chips in the original S3 and the TiVo HD, but I do find that hard to believe.


Thanks, David. I believe your account as well. I'm not sure what the differences are attributable to either.

I am glad to hear that your Premiere is working so well for you, and wonder how long it has been doing so?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

VideoGrabber said:


> Thanks, David. I believe your account as well. I'm not sure what the differences are attributable to either.
> 
> I am glad to hear that your Premiere is working so well for you, and wonder how long it has been doing so?


I bought my Premiere in Nov. 2010, started using it before Christmas, and activated it in Jan. 2011. My original and most detailed report of that is here. My speculation about the interrupt structure of the Broadcom processor may have been misguided, but my other comments stand. And I forgot that I wondered at that time if the reception differences I noticed might be attributable to differences in hard drive cache sizes. I guess that's still the best explanation I can come up with.

EDIT: I meant to say that the early reception differences I noticed, where the Premiere seemed to have higher error counts while still using the 320GB drive, might be attributable to differences in hard drive cache sizes. The dramatic improvement on the two local stations (compared to the TiVo HD) surely must be due to the improved demodulator chips.


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## MrJedi (Apr 13, 2011)

I have only owned a Premier, but I will say compared to my TV's tuner, the Premier's tuner is not as good. A station that has dropouts on my Tivo, will be clear when using the TV's tuner. I have an amplified splitter going to both and the only variable is the tuner (well and the hard drive, etc). I have done some tweaking with antenna positioning lately, and the Tivo has gotten better, but still not as rock solid as my TV.

By no means would I say don't buy a Premier, I'm just saying in my experience there are better tuners out there. YMMV.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tootal2 said:


> tivo premiere is 19.95 a month? think i will stay with my tivo s2 and tivo hd.
> What happen to 12.95 a month tivo?


You can use a Premiere OTA only for 9.99/month.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

MrJedi said:


> I have only owned a Premier, but I will say compared to my TV's tuner, the Premier's tuner is not as good. A station that has dropouts on my Tivo, will be clear when using the TV's tuner. I have an amplified splitter going to both and the only variable is the tuner (well and the hard drive, etc). I have done some tweaking with antenna positioning lately, and the Tivo has gotten better, but still not as rock solid as my TV.
> 
> By no means would I say don't buy a Premier, I'm just saying in my experience there are better tuners out there. YMMV.


What TV do you have (make and model)? Do you know what tuner chip it uses? Thanks.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

rainwater said:


> You can use a Premiere OTA only for 9.99/month.


Can you? Or must you buy a new Premiere, and activate it with the ANTENNA code for a year, to get that rate? I've only seen the later option, and the CSR I talked to told me the former doesn't exist.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

VideoGrabber said:


> Can you? Or must you buy a new Premiere, and activate it with the ANTENNA code for a year, to get that rate? I've only seen the later option, and the CSR I talked to told me the former doesn't exist.


If your Premiere is already activated, you're out of luck.
It is true that the $9/mo antenna only promo is only good for new activations, and the $9/mo charge will remain indefinitely *as long as you never connect the Premiere to a cable outlet.*


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I'm really surprised and disappointed that that "Elite" model doesn't support ATSC/over the air. I'm not sure if I would have bought one right this minute or not, but it would have been a no brainer replacement if one of my two goes.

Apparently it costs more to include support, or something? Don't know why else they wouldn't.

USUALLY 2 tuners is enough, but (for example) later this month we get Fringe, Supernatural, and Grimm, all at the same time...if not something else too.



VideoGrabber said:


> It might be, but I thought (and hoped) not. The tuners and decoders used are microprocessor-controlled, and have a number of (firmware) parameters that control their operation. When the S3 came out, TiVo spent some time tweaking these parameters to get the best results. Unfortunately, that hardware changed on the Premieres, so the same parameters no longer applied. And TiVo didn't take the time initially to tweak them, before releasing the new boxes. Maybe they still haven't, since OTA is not any kind of priority, AFAICT, but they certainly *could* do so. And there would be a radical difference, for those of us on the borderline.
> 
> Or maybe, as you suspect, the hardware is just crap, and this is a casualty of cost-cutting measures. I can't identify the reasons, only the results.


That's really disappointing to hear. I've had such great results from my HD XL  Soooooooooo glad to be rid of Comcast.



tootal2 said:


> tivo premiere is 19.95 a month? think i will stay with my tivo s2 and tivo hd.
> What happen to 12.95 a month tivo?


Personally I'd only ever do it with lifetime. It pays for itself quickly even if it's $13/month or whatever.


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## VideoGrabber (Sep 11, 2003)

steve614 said:


> If your Premiere is already activated, you're out of luck.
> It is true that the $9/mo antenna only promo is only good for new activations, and the $9/mo charge will remain indefinitely *as long as you never connect the Premiere to a cable outlet.*


Thanks, Steve. But my Premiere has never been activated, beyond the 30-day Trial period, when I canceled service. I was still told no by the CSR. And when I tried to add the ANTENNA code on their webpage, it auto-reverts (rejects it).

Anyway, the whole experience with this Premiere (100% negative) has me contemplating flushing all the TiVos out of my home, and going with another solution. Not saying I will, just that after 12 years with TiVos, and all the years spent doing Beta-testing for them (hundreds of man-hours for free), this is the first time it's seriously crossed my mind.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

VideoGrabber said:


> Thanks, Steve. But my Premiere has never been activated, beyond the 30-day Trial period, when I canceled service. I was still told no by the CSR. And when I tried to add the ANTENNA code on their webpage, it auto-reverts (rejects it).


No, it was activated and then you cancelled service.
The promo code works only for units that have never been activated.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

bump, about to cut the satellite cord for OTA. Based on this thread it seems the ATSC tuners are not necessarily good or bad, anybody want to chime in with new feedback?

TIA


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Nothing new to add. I'm still happy with my Terk FDTV1A, though I don't know if it's the best indoor antenna or not. It's better than my Terk 55 is, at any rate.

Probably depends a lot on your area, but with my current antenna, I get nearly perfect reception, and have 11 channels that come in perfectly, and about 4 that are a little iffy, but mostly work (and 2 more that are duplicates from another market).

At any rate, I'm still very very happy with my setup, my Tivos, the video quality, and my lack of any monthly bill!


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

Puppy76 said:


> Nothing new to add. I'm still happy with my Terk FDTV1A, though I don't know if it's the best indoor antenna or not. It's better than my Terk 55 is, at any rate.
> 
> Probably depends a lot on your area, but with my current antenna, I get nearly perfect reception, and have 11 channels that come in perfectly, and about 4 that are a little iffy, but mostly work (and 2 more that are duplicates from another market).
> 
> At any rate, I'm still very very happy with my setup, my Tivos, the video quality, and my lack of any monthly bill!


thanks, I got a external 2 antenna setup on my roof, CM4228 and AC Y5-7-13. I have had some multipath issues before so that is my main concern.

no tv bill sounds nice:up:


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Jeff_DML said:


> thanks, I got a external 2 antenna setup on my roof, CM4228 and AC Y5-7-13. I have had some multipath issues before so that is my main concern.
> 
> no tv bill sounds nice:up:


As I've said before, I think the OTA tuners in the Premiere are quite good, and the handling of multipath seems to be greatly improved when compared to the TiVo HD.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

L David Matheny said:


> As I've said before, I think the OTA tuners in the Premiere are quite good, and the handling of multipath seems to be greatly improved when compared to the TiVo HD.


nice, thanks:up:


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

my new premiere is much better than my hr10250....so good that it picks up a vhf 6 when i only have a uhf antenna. it's not perfect but it's watchable with just a few dropouts. sometimes it's even reliable


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## Spiky (May 30, 2002)

steve614 said:


> No, it was activated and then you cancelled service.
> The promo code works only for units that have never been activated.


So, mine showed up pre-activated or something. Does that mean I'm screwed on the code?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Spiky said:


> So, mine showed up pre-activated or something. Does that mean I'm screwed on the code?


I assume you bought your Premiere directly from TiVo?
If so, I would guess it came pre-activated as TiVo usually sells the DVR bundled with service.

Look at the System Information screen. What does it say next to "TiVo Account Status"?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Spiky said:


> So, mine showed up pre-activated or something. Does that mean I'm screwed on the code?


Call TiVo and ask.


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## Spiky (May 30, 2002)

Thanks, I did call this morning. They added the discount for me. First time dealing with standalone Tivos for me. They probably should have a place to enter coupons in their checkout, though, since they offer coupons.


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## phone man (Nov 4, 2011)

Hello, I just ordered a Tivo premiere thru Antennas Direct. With the current OTA only promotion coming to an end soon, I decided it was time to act. In July I cancelled service with TWC. Two days later a call from their retention sales rep convinced me to stay with them a while longer. The bill went from $88 to $39 for 12 months. Anyway, I figure the savings is paying for the new CM 4228 antenna, CPA-19 preamp and new coax. It's been 20 years since I've had OTA TV but I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the PQ. 

Even with 2 edge reception and Columbus broadcast towers 40 to 65 miles away, I have excellent signal strength for the major networks so I don't anticipate any problems for those even if the Tivo premiere tuner isn't quite as good as the one in my Sony. I am a bit concerned about the weaker stations I receive. Currently I reliably receive the CW station even with a signal of -2.8 NM(dB), and 80% of the time I can get a low powered independent despite the -12.7 NM(dB) signal strength. 
I've read many comparisons between the series 3 and series 4 Tivo tuners but I would like to hear from those who have made direct comparisons between the ATSC tuners in their HDTVs and the series 4 Tivo.
With limited time to assess the Tivo before the promotion runs out, I'll likely install a 2 way splitter for quick comparisons of the Tivo vs my TV tuner. Having a nice DVR is key to breaking away from TWC completely.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

phone man said:


> Hello, I just ordered a Tivo premiere thru Antennas Direct. With the current OTA only promotion coming to an end soon, I decided it was time to act. In July I cancelled service with TWC. Two days later a call from their retention sales rep convinced me to stay with them a while longer. The bill went from $88 to $39 for 12 months. Anyway, I figure the savings is paying for the new CM 4228 antenna, CPA-19 preamp and new coax. It's been 20 years since I've had OTA TV but I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the PQ.
> 
> Even with 2 edge reception and Columbus broadcast towers 40 to 65 miles away, I have excellent signal strength for the major networks so I don't anticipate any problems for those even if the Tivo premiere tuner isn't quite as good as the one in my Sony. I am a bit concerned about the weaker stations I receive. Currently I reliably receive the CW station even with a signal of -2.8 NM(dB), and 80% of the time I can get a low powered independent despite the -12.7 NM(dB) signal strength.
> I've read many comparisons between the series 3 and series 4 Tivo tuners but I would like to hear from those who have made direct comparisons between the ATSC tuners in their HDTVs and the series 4 Tivo.
> With limited time to assess the Tivo before the promotion runs out, I'll likely install a 2 way splitter for quick comparisons of the Tivo vs my TV tuner. Having a nice DVR is key to breaking away from TWC completely.


When I got my Mitsubishi LT-46131 LCD TV several years ago, I thought its reception was quite good. When I got a TiVo HD a couple of years later, its reception was comparable. (It may even use the same chips.) I think the Premiere uses the same tuner chip but a better demodulator chip. Overall reception is similar, but the Premiere gets far fewer errors on a couple of local stations with severe multipath. I like the Premiere a lot. And I've always been OTA only.


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## phone man (Nov 4, 2011)

L David Matheny said:


> When I got my Mitsubishi LT-46131 LCD TV several years ago, I thought its reception was quite good. When I got a TiVo HD a couple of years later, its reception was comparable. (It may even use the same chips.) I think the Premiere uses the same tuner chip but a better demodulator chip. Overall reception is similar, but the Premiere gets far fewer errors on a couple of local stations with severe multipath. I like the Premiere a lot. And I've always been OTA only.


I read your posts on this topic with great interest since you have the same antenna, similar preamp and a fringe reception location. I haven't read of anyone doing this but I could just leave the splitter in place and switch between the Tivo and Sony tuner if I want to watch something on the weak stations should the Tivo tuners prove to be a problem. That would also allow recording two shows at once while watching a third channel.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

phone man said:


> I read your posts on this topic with great interest since you have the same antenna, similar preamp and a fringe reception location. I haven't read of anyone doing this but I could just leave the splitter in place and switch between the Tivo and Sony tuner if I want to watch something on the weak stations should the Tivo tuners prove to be a problem. That would also allow recording two shows at once while watching a third channel.


After my Channel Master 7777 antenna preamp I have one splitter feeding my TiVo HD and my Premiere. I don't bother to feed the TV via coax anymore. So I think you'll probably be fine.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yeah, it's funny, I don't have my TV hooked up to a...TV source! 

Between my HD XL, and my Series 2, I've got three tuners, USUALLY don't need more than three tuners, and hardly ever watch live TV, and when I do, prefer to start recording it so I can stop and come back later if I want!


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## phone man (Nov 4, 2011)

My usual Time Warner DVR habit is to only record things I know I will miss because I can't be in front of the TV when it airs. Kind of a carry over mentality from the VHS recorder days.
During my trial period with the Tivo I decided to max out the Tivo OTA experience and record EVERYTHING I would watch, freeing me to do other things and watch TV anytime. I realize this is second nature to the Tivo community but it's taken me a while to adopt this mindset.
Doing the same with the Time Warner DVR was certainly possible but the same shows were rerun so often it wasn't necessary. The downside was endlessly clicking thru the guide saying "nope" "nope" "nope" "nope"....
A few thousand "nopes" later and I'm ready for a change. Tools like a Roku, my Macbook pro thru HDMI and now a Tivo OTA DVR give lots of options.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

Jeff_DML said:


> thanks, I got a external 2 antenna setup on my roof, CM4228 and AC Y5-7-13. I have had some multipath issues before so that is my main concern.
> 
> no tv bill sounds nice:up:


well I got a TiVo Premiere and my local ABC channel is unwatchable with it, constantly breaking up/macroblocking. Same channel and feed works fine on my Pioneer tv tuner I have had issues before with this channel, a lot of multipath issues, but assumed it would be good now since it works on my tv.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

L David Matheny said:


> As I've said before, I think the OTA tuners in the Premiere are quite good, and the handling of multipath seems to be greatly improved when compared to the TiVo HD.


I don't know if software updates have improved things for current Premiere users, but this seven page thread made it clear that at least initially people were not having good luck with the Piremiere's OTA reception compared to the Series3/TivoHD units and many felt the difference could be due to the Premiere's poorer handling of multipath issues.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

S3-2501 said:


> I don't know if software updates have improved things for current Premiere users, but this seven page thread made it clear that at least initially people were not having good luck with the Piremiere's OTA reception compared to the Series3/TivoHD units and many felt the difference could be due to the Premiere's poorer handling of multipath issues.


as my post above points out Got my signal split to my TiVo and TV and now if I want to watch ABC I need to watch it live on my tv


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Jeff_DML said:


> as my post above points out Got my signal split to my TiVo and TV and now if I want to watch ABC I need to watch it live on my tv


What happens if you don't split it and you go straight to the TiVo?


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

aaronwt said:


> What happens if you don't split it and you go straight to the TiVo?


That is the way I originally had it, same problem, split it so I could at least watch it live on my tv tuner


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Jeff_DML said:


> That is the way I originally had it, same problem, split it so I could at least watch it live on my tv tuner


What is the signal strength? I know with my OTA reception I have one channel that shows up as 30 on the Premieer, but even at 30 it is rock solid.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

aaronwt said:


> What is the signal strength? I know with my OTA reception I have one channel that shows up as 30 on the Premieer, but even at 30 it is rock solid.


Bouncing around from 12 to 27. My CBS channel that is at the same TX location is stable at 69.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Jeff_DML said:


> Bouncing around from 12 to 27. My CBS channel that is at the same TX location is stable at 69.


You said you're using two antennas, one VHF and one UHF. Are you combining the signals into one downlead? If so, how? If you just use an ordinary splitter/combiner, you could be generating an especially nasty form of (what would look like) multipath. Have you tried a VHF/UHF combiner, so that each band is received on only one antenna? You could also try moving the antennas around a bit.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 3, 2009)

L David Matheny said:


> You said you're using two antennas, one VHF and one UHF. Are you combining the signals into one downlead? If so, how? If you just use an ordinary splitter/combiner, you could be generating an especially nasty form of (what would look like) multipath. Have you tried a VHF/UHF combiner, so that each band is received on only one antenna? You could also try moving the antennas around a bit.


yeah I have a VHF/UHF combiner for the antennas, I will go back up on the roof and see if I can tweak my setup for better results. Thanks for the help.

Guess my point was that I can get a channel with my TV that I cannot on the TiVo so the tuners are not the best.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Jeff_DML said:


> yeah I have a VHF/UHF combiner for the antennas, I will go back up on the roof and see if I can tweak my setup for better results. Thanks for the help.
> 
> Guess my point was that I can get a channel with my TV that I cannot on the TiVo so the tuners are not the best.


And I guess my original point was that IME my Premiere's tuners (or demodulators) handle multipath better than those in my TiVo HD, which perform about the same as those in my (several years older) Mitsubishi LCD TV. It sounds like your Pioneer TV has a really good tuner. I think Pioneer car stereo tuners were always considered to be some of the best.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

L David Matheny said:


> And I guess my original point was that IME my Premiere's tuners (or demodulators) handle multipath better than those in my TiVo HD, which perform about the same as those in my (several years older) Mitsubishi LCD TV. It sounds like your Pioneer TV has a really good tuner. I think Pioneer car stereo tuners were always considered to be some of the best.


I'm glad to know someone's happy with their Premier's tuners! I'm not inclined to replace my Tivo HD XL nor Series 2 with one, but if/when one breaks I'll obviously want whatever Tivo's current model is, and I'll obviously need it to work well with over the air broadcasts!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

my tuner continues to pick up a channel my hr10250 never did...a lo vhf channel on my uhf antenna,i'm still very happy

my hdmi, i'm not so happy but thats another thread


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