# Copy Protection Tracking Thread



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Thought I'd start a thread where we could go to check cable companies in various areas. I'll start and keep this post updated as others chime in.

Copy Protection generally includes 0x02 which prevents transfer via MRV and TTG. The CCI Byte 0x02 is either on or off in the context of this thread. If you have any channels that prevent recording altogether, or your area is clear of any protection let us know that as well.

*Comcast*
0x03 - One report of Comcast applying 0x03 protection on the Playboy channel as they've apparently classed it as pay per view. According to the report, the decision to do this is a Comcast corporate policy.

*Time Warner Cable*
All reporting areas indicate that TWC is applying 0x02 to all channels except locals.


```
Cable System          0x00 0x02 0x03 0x04          Channels
```


```
Arizona
Cox,  Phoenix               on                     All digital 
                                                    except locals
Cox, Tuson                  on                     All digital 
                                                    except locals
```


```
California
Comcast, Bay Area           on                     Premium Only
TWC, Torrance               on                     All but locals
```


```
Florida
BHN,  Tampa                 on                     All but locals
```


```
Georgia
Comcast, Atlanta            on                     Premium Only
Charter, Gwinnett           on                     BBCA, TMC, All Encore,
                                                    Showtime Showcase
```


```
Illinois
Comcast, Naperville         on                     Premium Only
```


```
Kansas
TWC, Kansas City            on                     All But Locals
```


```
Kentucky
Insight Cable, Lexington    on                     All But Locals
```


```
Louisiana
??, New Orleans             on                     Some Premium
```


```
Maine
TWC                         on                     All but locals
```


```
Maryland
Comcast, College Park       on                     Unknown
```


```
Massachusetts
RCN, Boston                 on                     Premium Only
```


```
Michigan
Detroit                     on                     Premium Only
WideOpenWest, Detroit  on                          All
```


```
Missouri
TWC, Kansas City            on                     All But Locals
```


```
New Hampshire
TWC, Northern NH            on                     All but locals
```


```
New Jersey
Comcast, Central NJ         on                     Premium Only
Verizon FIOS, Freehold
       /Basking Ridge  on                          All
```


```
New York
CV, Brookhaven              on                     All channels in the 
                                                    IO package and above
TWC,NYC Brooklyn/Queens     on                     All but local
```


```
North Carolina
TWC, Raleigh                on                     All but local
```


```
Oklahoma
Cox, Tulsa                  on                     HBO, Cinemax, and 
                                                    Showtime groups
```


```
Ohio
TWC, SW                     on                     All but locals
```


```
Oregon
Frontier FIOS               on                     All but locals
Comcast, Beaverton          on                     Premium Only
```


```
Pennsylvania
Verizon FiOS SE        on                          All
```


```
South Carolina
TWC, Columbia               on                     All but locals
```


```
Tennessee
Comcast, Nashville          on                     HBO, Starz, Cinemax
                       on                          All Others
```


```
Texas
SuddenLink, Amarillo        on                     Premium Only
TWC, Austin                 on                     All but locals
TWC, Dallas                 on                     All but locals
Comcast, Houston            on                     Premium only
TWC, Waco/Killeen           on                     All but locals
```


```
Virginia
Comcast, Alexandria         off                    All but HBO, MAX, SHO
Cox, N. Va                  on                     All But Locals, 
                                                    one exception
Verizon FiOS, N. Va.        on  	           Premium Only
Verizon FiOS, N. Va.        off*                   All
Verizon FiOS, Woodbridge    off*                   All
```


```
Washington, DC
RCN                              on                0x03 On NBA League Pass
```


```
Washington
Frontier, Redmond           on                     ???
```


```
Wisconsin
TWC, Milwaukee              on                     All, Possibly 
                                                    Locals(Not Confirmed)
```
*2 Conflicting reports - one from Woodbridge, the other an unknown location

*Other Codes*
*0x00* - Copy Freely
*0x01* - Same as 0x02 on TiVo equipment
*0x03* - Copy Never - the content can be recorded and viewed for 90 minutes after transmission, and is not transferrable. Content disappears from the Now Playing list after 90 minutes.

*Additional CCI values put restrictions on both digital and analog content:*

*0x04* - Content is Copy Once for digital output, but would have Macrovision 7 Day Unlimited restriction applied on the analog outputs. This affects content viewed either on an HDTV with component cabling or on a standard definition TV. It also affects content saved to VCR or DVD when the recorder is connected to an analog output on the TiVo box.
*0x07* - Content is Copy Never for digital content (deleted after 90 minutes) and Macrovision 7 day/24 hour for content recorded from analog channels. Content cannot be transferred via TiVoToGo transfers or MRV, and cannot be saved to VCR or DVD.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I'll play the game: TWC SW OH (Cincinnati and Dayton) is copy protected on all but locals.

It would make more sense to just track the areas where TWC does NOT copy protect, if there are any.


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## mmcgown (Feb 7, 2002)

I think you're going to find that ALL TWC franchises do the same thing, because of a corporate decision made at TWC HQ.

For what it's worth, I read this morning that while Verizon FIOS subscribers are still not "protected," the Verizon FIOS customers who were spun off to Frontier were immediately protected from themselves with the same scheme that TWC uses.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

Cox Communications, Phoenix AZ, All digital except local broadcast set to CCI=2


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

Its so rampant Im afraid to post. The bad people will read it and protect me from myself. LoL


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

vurbano said:


> Its so rampant Im afraid to post.


yeah, i have a feeling a large percent of digital TiVo subscribers are suffering as i am (Cox, Northern Virginia, locals are clear and one premium they overlooked)


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## mmcgown (Feb 7, 2002)

Hey Dave--I'm sure if you tell us which premium, we can get it locked up really fast!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I only have a couple of data points, but I am seeing something slightly different this week.. a few(*) of my recordings on ABC have Macrovision protection turned on (or at least they're triggering copy protection on my XS32 hard drive/dvd recorder)... But the programs are not copy protected (i.e. preventing MRV) as far as the Tivo is concerned.

That's slightly a pain, since I like to dub things fairly often to just watch on my other recorder faster than realtime with sound (and usually leave captions on -- so they get 'burned' into the recording too, another sign I'm not trying to do this to record something for keeps)... My "workaround" will likely be recording more things natively on that recorder.. But it's still a pain.

and these are news & game shows, not something typically cared about regarding DRM. (The other times I've seen this happen is often in the middle of a show -- e.g. a movie clip in a talk show triggers it, and often doesn't go back off for the rest of the show.)



(*) Maybe all of them do, but I've only tried dubbing a few.


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## flyers (Dec 19, 2006)

Cable System CCI 0x02 on/off Channels
BHN - Tampa, FL On All but locals

FiOS installation is scheduled for today. I know what I expect from them, but will post once I confirm on my systems.


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

I checked several chanels in NO and found:
The Locals DRM 0x00
HBO " 0x02
TBS " 0x00
Turner Classic " 0x01
AMC " 0x01

So, most of the cable ch's are open.
But movie chanels, not so much. I'm not using cable cards, so this doesn't affect me that much. If I want to copy a didigetal chanel, I use the analog ch 3 output from the cable box and copying it into TIVO.


Don H.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Comcast Houston

All clear except premium channels.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Comcast Atlanta

All clear except premium channels, Encore channels, Movieplex, and Flix.


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

TW Austin: All but locals :-(


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

When saying 'Copy protected" does that mean able to record, but unable to transfer to another device?

I sure hope so, because it is my understanding there is a bit that can be flipped to, more-or-less, disable a TiVo from recording anything from a single show to an entire channel.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

nrnoble said:


> When saying 'Copy protected" does that mean able to record, but unable to transfer to another device?


In most cases yes. So far we've only seen Copy Protection that limited recording only happen on PPV channels, or was implemented by mistake. If someone is on a system that uses the CCI 0x03 on some channels let us know and I'll note it in the first post.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

dlfl said:


> I'll play the game: TWC SW OH (Cincinnati and Dayton) is copy protected on all but locals.
> 
> It would make more sense to just track the areas where TWC does NOT copy protect, if there are any.


That's a good point. We should probably list areas that are clear as well.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Comcast Nashville: The only channels I've seen protected are HBO, Starz and Cinemax. I'm surprised but Showtime isn't. For awhile Tru-TV and National Geographic were, but then Comcast released them.


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## LI-SVT (Sep 28, 2006)

Cablevision in Brookhaven, New York has 0x02 set for all channels in the IO package and above.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

comcast 
central NJ II 
only premium movie channels flagged


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

RCN Boston -- only the premiums are protected


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## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

Verizon FiOS - SE PA
All channels - CCI:0X00
Cablecards - CopyProtectionKey: Disabled

When will the returns be in for Verizon/Frontier FiOS states besides WA & OR?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Looks like we have 13 states reporting. Any others?


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## rlcarr (Jan 18, 2003)

tiassa said:


> RCN Boston -- only the premiums are protected


Are you sure about that? When I had to go through my channel list deselecting all the shopping channels, spanish channels, etc. after they all got re-selected when I had to re-run Guided Setup after the RCN lineup change, I could have sworn there were are a couple of RCN Premiere channels (i.e. not premium channels) that had a CCI of 0x02 (and that I got a grey screen on because my CableCARD isn't paired). I'll have to re-check that....


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

Comcast Detroit:
Premium only, everything else is copy freely and I hope it stays this way for a long time.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Bay Area, CA Comcast.. premium only (HBO).. except what I mentioned above -- at least some LOCAL channels seem to have the Macrovision part set, but not the main copy protection set.

So I wonder if I can somehow tell Comcast about this. Can the digital channels just have the Macrovision part set, or is this possibly my hard drive/DVD recorder misinterpreting something? (Seems unlikely since it's several shows, just on ABC.)

Also, this seems to me like it violates the "can't set copy protection on local channels".


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

Time Warner out of Maine with service to NH too, so Maine & Northern NH.

All copy protected except locals.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mattack said:


> Bay Area, CA Comcast.. premium only (HBO).. except what I mentioned above -- at least some LOCAL channels seem to have the Macrovision part set, but not the main copy protection set.
> 
> So I wonder if I can somehow tell Comcast about this. Can the digital channels just have the Macrovision part set, or is this possibly my hard drive/DVD recorder misinterpreting something? (Seems unlikely since it's several shows, just on ABC.)
> 
> Also, this seems to me like it violates the "can't set copy protection on local channels".


yes the CCI Byte has multiple settings. It can also enable macrovision on analog outputs.

You wont see 0x01, 0x02, or 0x03, but rather some other value.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Oh, you mean I can check this on my recording? How do I check it?

and again, this seems to violate the 'no copy protection on broadcast-originating networks' idea.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Fios Tampa currently is in the clear, but expected to change eventually. 

Also it might be better if this was moved to the Coffee House or if possible made as a sticky in both series 3 and Premiere. Not sure if you can have one thread in both forums though.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

mattack said:


> Oh, you mean I can check this on my recording? How do I check it?
> 
> and again, this seems to violate the 'no copy protection on broadcast-originating networks' idea.


I'm not sure if the broadcast people are permited to add macrovision (analog flags) to be honest- never mattered to me so i haven't bothered to learn.

to check the flags tune to the channels in question and then go into the tivo's diagnostic screens (someplace in the menus- sorry can't be more specific- dont have it in front of me).

there's a value for CCI Byte. If it's anything other than 0x00 then there is some sort of flag applied.

0x02 is only one digital copy - allowed on anything on thats not broadcast local. 0x03 is a time restricted copy that self destructs (in 90 minutes off the top of my head)- only allowed on ppv and vod.

other values include macrovision flags, image constraint flags (meaning they degrade the picture on non digitally encrypted outputs- which i believe was only recently approved for ppv/vod of currently in theater movies). Also they can make any combination of the above flags with the byte. If you dig through the cable labs website you can find the exact rules with all the possible values


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

TWC Dallas, TX is locked up tight. They even had locals locked down at one point.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

TWC Torrance, Ca.

All flagged except locals.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Maybe the only people reporting are those with a problem, but it's certainly not looking good. Seems like more cable companies are cping content than not.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Maybe the only people reporting are those with a problem, but it's certainly not looking good. Seems like more cable companies are cping content than not.


I think in general the only people aware enough to answer have had problems at one point in time or another.

The rest probably just skip over the thread blissfully ignorant of what the title even means.

still i think it has value to have a single thread with as much info as possible.


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## Revolutionary (Dec 1, 2004)

Stormspace: I think you should change the entry for FIOS SE PA to "NONE", not all. The poster actually said that all channels are set to 0x00, free and clear.

Same here on FIOS Northern Virginia (join us, davezatz -- be freed from Cox! (man do I not like how that sounds...)), where only the pay-premiums are 0x02 (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc) - everything else is 0x00. Interestingly, even the locks are not consistent. I've seen individual Starz movies on my S3 that were available for transfer, although most typically are not.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Revolutionary said:


> Stormspace: I think you should change the entry for FIOS SE PA to "NONE", not all. The poster actually said that all channels are set to 0x00, free and clear.
> 
> Same here on FIOS Northern Virginia (join us, davezatz -- be freed from Cox! (man do I not like how that sounds...)), where only the pay-premiums are 0x02 (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc) - everything else is 0x00. Interestingly, even the locks are not consistent. I've seen individual Starz movies on my S3 that were available for transfer, although most typically are not.


Done.


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Revolutionary said:


> Stormspace: I think you should change the entry for FIOS SE PA to "NONE", not all. The poster actually said that all channels are set to 0x00, free and clear.
> 
> Same here on FIOS Northern Virginia (join us, davezatz -- be freed from Cox! (man do I not like how that sounds...)), where only the pay-premiums are 0x02 (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc) - everything else is 0x00. Interestingly, even the locks are not consistent. I've seen individual Starz movies on my S3 that were available for transfer, although most typically are not.


Hmm... I've got 0x00 on all of my HBO recordings via FIOS in Northern Virginia.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Martin Tupper said:


> Hmm... I've got 0x00 on all of my HBO recordings via FIOS in Northern Virginia.


I guess we need to make certain you are both on the same system. TWC here in SC has two offices I'm familiar with, one in the state capitol and another serving the northeastern part of the state. Could be others, but I don't know about those. Maybe your head office is in another part of the state?


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

FIOS NJ (Freehold/Basking Ridge) still all clear - for now.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

I was just looking at the FCC filings for the separable security waiver and see a lot of comments from users about the over zealous CCI Byte implementations that MSP's are doing. Maybe we'll get some action on this.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Anyone know if Farmers Telephone in SC is setting the CCI byte to 0x02?


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

Time Warner Cable Kansas City (MO and KS) -- Locked down tight. Only local stations are 0x00.

[NG]Owner


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

[NG]Owner;8096249 said:


> Time Warner Cable Kansas City (MO and KS) -- Locked down tight. Only local stations are 0x00.
> 
> [NG]Owner


Done.


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## dwood (Jan 22, 2006)

Time Warner Cable NYC Brooklyn/Queens 0x02, 0x00 local ota.

2x brand spankin new Series 4


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## KelleyCook (Jul 10, 2002)

No copy protection flags at all


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## Iluvatar (Jul 22, 2006)

Insight Cable - Lexington, KY
All except OTA/Locals are 0x02 CCI


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Iluvatar said:


> Insight Cable - Lexington, KY
> All except OTA/Locals are 0x02 CCI





dwood said:


> Time Warner Cable NYC Brooklyn/Queens 0x02, 0x00 local ota.
> 
> 2x brand spankin new Series 4


Thx!


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

KelleyCook said:


> No copy protection flags at all


That's great. Never heard of Wide Open West, is it a large provider or just a local one?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm in Northern Virginia with FiOS. I can transfer any recording from any channel on FiOS. There are no restrictions here. 
On the first post you list the premium channels being restricted on FiOS. They are not restricted here.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I'm in Northern Virginia with FiOS. I can transfer any recording from any channel on FiOS. There are no restrictions here.
> On the first post you list the premium channels being restricted on FiOS. They are not restricted here.





Revolutionary said:


> Same here on FIOS Northern Virginia (join us, davezatz -- be freed from Cox! (man do I not like how that sounds...)), where only the pay-premiums are 0x02 (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc) - everything else is 0x00. Interestingly, even the locks are not consistent. I've seen individual Starz movies on my S3 that were available for transfer, although most typically are not.


Hmmm. Are you two on different systems?


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Martin Tupper said:


> Hmm... I've got 0x00 on all of my HBO recordings via FIOS in Northern Virginia.





Stormspace said:


> Hmmm. Are you two on different systems?


I told you this 2 months ago. HBO in Fios NoVA is definitely 0x00.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Martin Tupper said:


> I told you this 2 months ago. HBO in Fios NoVA is definitely 0x00.


The problem is that I had two conflicting reports. One from you and one from Revolutionary. Of course I now have a second that backs you up. I still suspect that you are on two different systems however.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

For Redmond, WA Frontier FiOS I think you need to put in:
0x02 on with comment "Locals Clear, most/all (?) extended basic and Premiums protected"

I suspect the Oregon Frontier FiOS folks will need their entry changed to the above too due to the additional CP that got added in the past 1-2 months. Discovery at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8228993#post8228993.

I believe Kirkland, WA should have the same restrictions as Redmond, WA.

(I'm unclear what cities FiOS in WA covers and but I did find http://www.consumerfiber.com/fios-availability and http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19...e-is-Fios-in-the-SeattleRedmondEdmondsetc-Are. I know cities like Bellevue and Redmond had landline telco service from GTE, then Verizon and then Frontier (?). Seattle had telco service from US West then Qwest.)


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm in Amarillo, Texas and the cable company is Suddenlink Communications. All premium channels can't be transfered but all the other channels can be transfered.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

TWC Raleigh (TWC Carolinas - North and South) - All but locals's are locked.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Done.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The Tivos have to be registered to the same account and on the same network subnet to enable MRV. It would seem that the restrictions TIVO places on MRV would be enough that they wouldn't need to honor the CCI byte for MRV. I think the only restriction should be that a copy protected file can't be accessed by a device other than a Tivo.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> The Tivos have to be registered to the same account and on the same network subnet to enable MRV. It would seem that the restrictions TIVO places on MRV would be enough that they wouldn't need to honor the CCI byte for MRV. I think the only restriction should be that a copy protected file can't be accessed by a device other than a Tivo.


Many would love it if that were the case. However cable labs certification requires a different level of protection. Frankly I think the cable companies were more forward looking than TiVo and headed them off at the pass.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Stormspace said:


> Frankly I think the cable companies were more Nazi-looking than TiVo and headed them off at the party hall.


Fixed that for ya.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Fixed that for ya.


LOL!


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Added Wisconsin and Maryland


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Oregon Frontier FiOS was recently made worse, now all are protected except locals.

Frontier also recently announced a 50% rate increase. They seem to want out of the cable business. So it sure would be nice to hear from Portland Comcast people to confirm that nothing but premiums are protected.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Added Comcast policy update:

An anonymous report indicates that due to Comcast corporate policy, the playboy channel will be regarded as pay per view and carry the 0x03 CCI byte.

*0x03 - Copy Never - the content can be recorded and viewed for 90 minutes after transmission, and is not transferrable. Content disappears from the Now Playing list after 90 minutes.*


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> An anonymous report indicates that due to Comcast corporate policy, the playboy channel will be regarded as pay per view and carry the 0x03 CCI byte.


Yeah, that's ridiculous. IIRC Playboy is a pay-by-the-month channel, not PPV. I thought that FCC regulations explicitly prohibited 0x03 on those kinds of channels.

But I just typed the words *free porn* into teh Google and it said "About 204,000,000 results (0.14 seconds)". So perhaps there are alternatives.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Yeah, that's ridiculous. IIRC Playboy is a pay-by-the-month channel, not PPV. I thought that FCC regulations explicitly prohibited 0x03 on those kinds of channels.
> 
> But I just typed the words *free porn* into teh Google and it said "About 204,000,000 results (0.14 seconds)". So perhaps there are alternatives.


I'll take your word for it.  Seriously I've only gotten one report and while I tend to believe the reporter, I haven't gotten any third party confirmation.


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## sgip2000 (Jun 19, 2009)

Comcast in Beaverton/Hillsboro, Oregon appears to still only be protecting the "premium" channels.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

sgip2000 said:


> Comcast in Beaverton/Hillsboro, Oregon appears to still only be protecting the "premium" channels.


Ok, Got it.


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## miCro (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm going to post an RFC on a petition about this. I'm in Oregon and very unhappy.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

miCro said:


> I'm going to post an RFC on a petition about this. I'm in Oregon and very unhappy.


Don't bother. Odds are very high that Frontier wants to get out of the TV business entirely by the end of this year. More discussion in AVS Forum local thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19765921#post19765921

Also lots of discussion in TiVo Community:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462185


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## Doh (May 18, 2001)

We have RCN in metro DC and have never had problems until recently the NBA League Pass seems to have a code that it has to be watched within 90 minutes.


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## Grey Griffin (May 24, 2007)

Cox in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

All clear except the HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime groups.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Added Oklahoma and Washington State. Don't know exactly which channels in Washington are affected, but will update it when I find out.


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## xultar (Jun 15, 2005)

Charter Gwinnett County Digital,

BBCA, Encore Westerns, Starz

I'm just gonna run some tests and record a whole bunch of stuff on various channels to see what else is blocked.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

xultar said:


> Charter Gwinnett County Digital,
> 
> BBCA, Encore Westerns, Starz
> 
> I'm just gonna run some tests and record a whole bunch of stuff on various channels to see what else is blocked.


Added. Let us know what else you might find.


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## xultar (Jun 15, 2005)

K I mistakenly put Starz when it should have been Showtime Showcase.

Also add TMC. 

I've got more recording on various channels so I'll post when they are done.

Wha does this mean. What are they doing?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

xultar said:


> K I mistakenly put Starz when it should have been Showtime Showcase.
> 
> Also add TMC.
> 
> ...


Sounds like they are restricting the recordings to copy once, or copy no more. Which means that the TiVo can record them, but transferring to another TiVo or to a PC is prohibited. Unfortunately the FCC gave the cable companies the right to do this on their own without any direction from the studios.


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## xultar (Jun 15, 2005)

Well add all of encore to that list. I wonder if they are doing it to just ticks to get people to use their boxes that will allow multi room viewing .


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## MeStinkBAD (Jul 16, 2003)

I live in Tucson, AZ. Same deal as PHX w/ Cox. I don't really care anymore. Every video regardless how it's flagged is always possible to copy via the "Copy to VCR" option since this already went to court (well copying stuff to a "Video Recording Device"). 

Only reason why the CCI is occasionally used is cuz cable companies clearly want to encourage you to get their HSI service and obtain these things via torrents that are available everywhere and w/o commercials... this is the reason... they just have no idea this is the reason... yet...

In all seriousness once some cable co. tries to take some to court by bypassing the CCI flag... the court will rule that the CCI flag's purpose is not to prevent people from playing recorded content on other devices but to inform the user that the content is copyrighted and should not be distributed outside the home. If a user decides not to distribute the video anyway, then the cable company may contact the FBI and fine them.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

MeStinkBAD said:


> Every video regardless how it's flagged is always possible to copy via the "Copy to VCR" option since this already went to court (well copying stuff to a "Video Recording Device").


Are you referring to the Sony Betamax case? I thought that involved recording a television transmission for later viewing and not duplicating a recording of a television transmission.

In Tivo's MRV case, we are duplicating a recording, not simply recording the television transmission.

The CCI byte is a huge pain for many.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

MeStinkBAD said:


> I live in Tucson, AZ. Same deal as PHX w/ Cox.


Noted.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

MeStinkBAD said:


> In all seriousness once some cable co. tries to take some to court by bypassing the CCI flag... the court will rule that the CCI flag's purpose is not to prevent people from playing recorded content on other devices but to inform the user that the content is copyrighted and should not be distributed outside the home. If a user decides not to distribute the video anyway, then the cable company may contact the FBI and fine them.


No one will be able to convince me that the Cable companies don't know that they are crippling a feature available to devices not their own and that is the real reason they are using the 0x02 CCI byte. I see the CCI byte as just another item in the war of escalation the cable companies have with their customers.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Stormspace said:


> No one will be able to convince me that the Cable companies don't know that they are crippling a feature available to devices not their own and that is the real reason they are using the 0x02 CCI byte.


I agree


Stormspace said:


> I see the CCI byte as just another item in the war of escalation the cable companies have with their customers.


Nah.... They are just pursuing their business interest. TiVo owners are only about 0.5% of their digital customer base. I don't see any sense in which you can construe them to be in a "war of escalation" with their customers. It is irritating to see the legalese they use to state their copy protection is legal while insinuating it's required by their agreements with content providers. But being irritating is legal. So is being unethical and the only practical limit on that would be if say 50% of their digital customers used TiVos -- never gonna happen for any TiVo box that doesn't have a cable co name on it.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> No one will be able to convince me that the Cable companies don't know that they are crippling a feature available to devices not their own and that is the real reason they are using the 0x02 CCI byte. I see the CCI byte as just another item in the war of escalation the cable companies have with their customers.


Nah... I dont buy that. I believe you can lay this one at the feet of their lawyers. Lawyers rule the roost and lawyers are paranoid. They cover their butts with 'copy one generation only' so they can never be accused of not using every method available to protect a copyrighted work. If they flag copyrighted material as 'copy freely' they dont look to be protecting the material (at least I believe a lawyer would see it that way). IMHO, the CCI 02 flag is just like the stickers on the ladder saying dont climb on the very top.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

SCSIRAID said:


> Nah... I dont buy that. I believe you can lay this one at the feet of their lawyers. Lawyers rule the roost and lawyers are paranoid. They cover their butts with 'copy one generation only' so they can never be accused of not using every method available to protect a copyrighted work. If they flag copyrighted material as 'copy freely' they dont look to be protecting the material (at least I believe a lawyer would see it that way). IMHO, the CCI 02 flag is just like the stickers on the ladder saying dont climb on the very top.


I think that's the excuse or justification, not the reason. They must know that a side effect of their decision makes a competing product less attractive. So the real reason is that by discouraging people from using third party devices they make an additional amount of money based on VOD sales every time someone rents their box instead of going to TiVo.

Wikipedia says that TiVo has 2.76 million subs. If each one of those subs were using cable equipment and bought one item for 5.00 each month, that's an additional 165.6 Million in revenue that cable companies could get. In a market that's fairly well saturated and resistant to price increases that is a lot of money someone is missing out on.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

I'm not sure why you have fios in NJ as having copy protection. I have fios in northern NJ and have no copy protection on anything. Even HBO stuff has no copy protection. To be honest the lack of copy protection is what's keeping me as a customer since I can get better pricing from cablevision.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I don't buy the "lawyers being paranoid" theory. It seems strange the lawyers for ComCast would be so much less paranoid than those of Time Warner. 

As Time Warner has said in their statements on this, they have agreements with their content providers. To think that copy protection doesn't get considered in negotiating these agreements is unimaginable to me. Time Warner would like you to think that these agreements bind them to copy protect. They cleverly hint at that in their statements but don't actually say it. Since the agreements are not public there is no way to know if that is true. Personally I think they copy protect either just because they can and/or that it hurts TiVo penetration. Circumstantial evidence that their provider agreements are not the reason is in the fact that other cable systems carrying the exact same content do not copy protect.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

NYHeel said:


> I'm not sure why you have fios in NJ as having copy protection. I have fios in northern NJ and have no copy protection on anything. Even HBO stuff has no copy protection. To be honest the lack of copy protection is what's keeping me as a customer since I can get better pricing from cablevision.


The list is getting a little long so it's hard to see that there are multiple columns. This might help.


```
Cable System          0x00 0x02 0x03 0x04          Channels
```


```
New Jersey
Comcast, Central NJ         on                     Premium Only
Verizon FIOS, Freehold
       /Basking Ridge  on                          All
```


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

dlfl said:


> I don't buy the "lawyers being paranoid" theory. It seems strange the lawyers for ComCast would be so much less paranoid than those of Time Warner.
> 
> As Time Warner has said in their statements on this, they have agreements with their content providers. To think that copy protection doesn't get considered in negotiating these agreements is unimaginable to me. Time Warner would like you to think that these agreements bind them to copy protect. They cleverly hint at that in their statements but don't actually say it.


FIOS, Comcast, et al, have virtually the same contracts with the same people as TW Cable. They also fail to mention the only content provider who demanded they not have copy protection enabled on their channels was summarily dropped from TWC lineups across the nation.



dlfl said:


> Since the agreements are not public there is no way to know if that is true. Personally I think they copy protect either just because they can and/or that it hurts TiVo penetration. Circumstantial evidence that their provider agreements are not the reason is in the fact that other cable systems carrying the exact same content do not copy protect.


It's much simpler than that.

Question: Who stands to gain the most - or at least so they believe - from copy protection? Answer: The MPAA.

Question: Who is one of the largest (maybe the largest) members of the MPAA? Answer: Time Warner, Inc.

Two guesses who still has a controlling interest in Time Warner Cable.

Do the math.


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## xultar (Jun 15, 2005)

I pinged Charter on Twitter and they told me that the blocked channels I listed may be due to an issue with the tuning adapter. So I will call them when I get home from SFO and see if they can fix it.

I will keep you posted.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> ...They also fail to mention the only content provider who demanded they not have copy protection enabled on their channels was summarily dropped from TWC lineups across the nation.
> ...


Who was this content provider that actually stood up for us?

I ask because TWC has dropped several channels lately (without dropping their prices by a penny, in fact I think they're raising them), so it's not clear which one of them it might have been.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

unitron said:


> Who was this content provider that actually stood up for us?
> 
> I ask because TWC has dropped several channels lately (without dropping their prices by a penny, in fact I think they're raising them), so it's not clear which one of them it might have been.


HDNet


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## Robertjm (Jan 6, 2006)

OK, so HOW does someone know if a recording is classified with all that 00x3 gobbledy ****? I'm on a Series 2 and have only seen a few programs marked with the Copyright flag prior to January 1st.

HOWEVER, as of now anything that appears on Bravo is marked with Copyright restrictions and today The Naked Archealogist (History International) is showing the same to episodes which I'd watched in prior months just fine w/o copyright restrictions.

I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area on Comcast Digital Cable and added HD in mid-December 2010 if that adds any fuel to the fire, and it's the HD box which the Series 2 Tivo is hooked up to. The other two boxes are SD boxes, but I'm not about to move my Tivo right now.

Robert


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Robertjm said:


> OK, so HOW does someone know if a recording is classified with all that 00x3 gobbledy ****? I'm on a *Series 2* and have only seen a few programs marked with the Copyright flag prior to January 1st.
> 
> HOWEVER, as of now anything that appears on Bravo is marked with Copyright restrictions and today The Naked Archealogist (History International) is showing the same to episodes which I'd watched in prior months just fine w/o copyright restrictions.
> 
> ...


Since you have a Series 2, the CCI byte value stuff doesn't apply to you. See http://www.tivo.com/copyprotection/.

If you had a Series 3 or above, you could view the CCI byte values via TiVo's UI. The directions are again at that URL.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

unitron said:


> Who was this content provider that actually stood up for us?





SCSIRAID said:


> HDNet


Actually, both HDNet and HDNet Movies. Mark Cuban has publicly stated he is against copy protection on his networks.



unitron said:


> I ask because TWC has dropped several channels lately (without dropping their prices by a penny, in fact I think they're raising them), so it's not clear which one of them it might have been.


Well, it wasn't exactly recent. It was back in May of 2009, shortly after Cuban made his public statement.

I would happily pay to receive HDNet and HDNet Movies.


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## Dash (Jul 10, 2010)

Where I have a problem in understanding this whole fiasco:
Time Warner allows you to transfer shows between their devices, but Tivo users can't do the same thing. It really irks me that I can't transfer a children's show that was recorded on one Tivo, to the Tivo that they really want to watch it on. ...and, if we have conflicting recordings, I might record a show on a different unit, but if it is on a premium channel, I now have to watch it on that unit.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Dash said:


> Where I have a problem in understanding this whole fiasco:
> Time Warner allows you to transfer shows between their devices, but Tivo users can't do the same thing.


It's not very difficult to understand.

TW doesn't want you to own a TiVo. TW wants you to rent equipment from them. This allows them to show two things to Wall Street:

1) year over year asset and revenue growth
2) high revenue per user

Historically, cable has required massive amounts of capital expenditure. Which means that, historically, cable companies haven't made much in the way of profit (this has changed in recent years). And, historically, cable has financed its growth more with debt than equity, and so needs lots of revenue from which to pay the interest on that debt.

Which means that revenue growth has been the key valuation metric. The industry has a number of "fancy" acronyms for it, such as ARPU and EBITDA, but *revenue, not profit* is the key.

So, even if it were more *profitable* to TW for you to own your TiVo, they would have less *revenue*. So they do what they legally can to "discourage" you.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> It's not very difficult to understand.
> 
> TW doesn't want you to own a TiVo. TW wants you to rent equipment from them. This allows them to show two things to Wall Street:
> 
> ...


There are several big problems with those statements.

Firstly, EBITDA is more closely tied to profit than it is revenue. High revenues with high expenses result in a low EBITDA. Moderate revenues with very low expenses result in a high EBITDA. That is how the company for which I work managed to maintain very high EBITDA margins in the 2002 - 2004 time frame despite plummeting revenues. That said, capital expenditures do not impact EBITDA calculations, and it may be true they are capitalizing new DVR purchases.

Secondly, most CATV companies don't charge much, comparatively speaking, for DVR rentals. Of course, admittedly revenue margins, and especially free cash flow, can turn on a dime, so even tiny incremental changes in revenue can make the difference between turning a profit and incurring a loss.

Finally, it ignores the main reasons the CTV companies don't want 3rd party equipment in the mix. They want desperately to be able to exercise full control over the security systems and capabilities of the edge device. They also want the (much higher) revenues produced by use of the leased systems, particularly in IPPV. Finally, they are all but obsessed with maintenance costs and 3rd party engineering issues.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> ..... Finally, they [CTV companies] are all but obsessed with maintenance costs...........


This seems inconsistent with their pronounced tendancy to address CableCARD and Tuning Adapter service needs with the "truck roll", when many such problems don't require that. Do all these truck rolls cost them less than training some of their employees up on these issues?

Also please define "edge device" (or give a link as Phantom Gremlin did for his/her terms). I've seen the term "edge QAM modulators" and I suspect you are using "edge" in a different sense, i.e., meaning STB's etc. at the customer site.


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## gayste (Feb 27, 2002)

Comcast in Alexandria, Va. checkig in...

All clear except the HBO, MAX, SHO


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

gayste said:


> Comcast in Alexandria, Va. checkig in...
> 
> All clear except the HBO, MAX, SHO


Thanks!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

dlfl said:


> This seems inconsistent with their pronounced tendancy to address CableCARD and Tuning Adapter service needs with the "truck roll", when many such problems don't require that. Do all these truck rolls cost them less than training some of their employees up on these issues?


It does seem inconsistent, doesn't it? No one ever said the brass at the CATV companies are the brightest bulbs in the pack. Believe me, I've worked for a couple of them. I think mostly, however, their aim is to prove to the FCC that 3rd party devices are more cost and trouble than they are worth. In their reports to the FCC, they talk about the CableCard installaion requiring an "expert". They fail to mention the fact a baboon on qualudes is sharper than most of the "experts" they send out.

There is also an occupational hazard for senior engineering managers to develop blinders when it comes to support costs. They are often more than willing to waste huge amounts of money if it means they don't have to keep competent support staff.

The real truth, however, is the brass at a lot of CATV companies are basically control freaks. They all but have a coronary at the notion a subsriber should be able to decide what software, hardware, or firmware delivers the service to the customer. They suffer a fit at the notion a consumer might copy content from one device to another. The practically pee in their pants at the notion the customer should be able to customize their CATV lineup.



dlfl said:


> Also please define "edge device" (or give a link as Phantom Gremlin did for his/her terms). I've seen the term "edge QAM modulators" and I suspect you are using "edge" in a different sense, i.e., meaning STB's etc. at the customer site.


The term is well defined in the communications industry. Basically it is a device that separates the core of a network from external devices that might possibly controlled by entities external to the company. It causes the external devices to be unaware of the internals of the network beyond certain publicly shared information. In hte data world it would be a switch or a router. In this case it would be a DVR, an STB, or else CableCard circuitry and firmware inside a TV.


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## vectorcatch (Nov 21, 2008)

Comcast in Howard County Maryland just added 15-20 HD channels (including Comedy Central HD and Cartoon Network HD). Previously all channels have had the CCI byte set to 0x00 (with the exception of premiums like HBO). However, these new channels have the byte set to 0x02. I am hoping this is a fluke and will work itself out. 

Has anyone here tried contacting comcast over this?

Years ago all the channels were 0x02 and one day it suddenly changed, so I figured someone was in contact with them (or at least knows who to talk to).


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> There are several big problems with those statements.
> 
> Firstly, EBITDA is more closely tied to profit than it is revenue.


I'm reluctant to get into an accounting debate here, but I disagree with what you said. More importantly, there are many others who will disagree with you. EBITDA is non-GAAP. It was invented because capital intensive companies (like, historically, cable companies) had *lots of revenue* but *little or no profit.*

Here's a 3rd party statement of this principle:

Cash flow is normally defined as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization (EBITDA).
...
Cash flow is most commonly used to value industries that involve tremendous up-front capital expenditures and companies that have large amortization burdens. *Cable TV companies, for instance, reported negative earnings for years* as they made huge capital expenditures to build their cable networks. However, their cash flow actually grew; huge depreciation and amortization charges masked the companies' ability to generate cash. Sophisticated buyers of these properties use cash flow as one way of pricing an acquisition, thus it makes sense for investors to use it as well.​
Of course you might not think much of Motley Fool (and I'm not universally enamored of them), but I think that Fool and I are more correct on this issue than you are.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

FiOS in Woodbridge, VA. I currently have HBO, Starz, The Movie Channel, and EPIX. I've seen no restrictions on any of the HD channels FiOS has or the HD Premiums I've had. (In the past I've had all the premiums with no issues)But currently with the programming I subscribe too I can transfer any of my recorded HD content freely to my other Premieres or TiVo Desktop multiple times.

While I have not recorded content from every HD channel, the ones I have recorded from have never been an issue.


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## tmesser (Apr 12, 2003)

Comcast Naperville/Warrenville (west suburban Chicago): copy protection on premium channels only.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

tmesser said:


> Comcast Naperville/Warrenville (west suburban Chicago): copy protection on premium channels only.


Thanks!


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> FiOS in Woodbridge, VA. I currently have HBO, Starz, The Movie Channel, and EPIX. I've seen no restrictions on any of the HD channels FiOS has or the HD Premiums I've had. (In the past I've had all the premiums with no issues)But currently with the programming I subscribe too I can transfer any of my recorded HD content freely to my other Premieres or TiVo Desktop multiple times.
> 
> While I have not recorded content from every HD channel, the ones I have recorded from have never been an issue.


Done!


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I'm reluctant to get into an accounting debate here, but I disagree with what you said. More importantly, there are many others who will disagree with you. EBITDA is non-GAAP. It was invented because capital intensive companies (like, historically, cable companies) had *lots of revenue* but *little or no profit.*


That is true, but not quite the point. In the crash of 2002, our revenue fell by more than 50%, but our EBITDA went *UP*. That's because it takes both revenue and expenses into account. As you point out, an increase in revenue does not necessarily imply an increase in profit, but it also does not imply an increase in EBITDA.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Here's a 3rd party statement of this principle:
> 
> Cash flow is normally defined as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization (EBITDA).​



That's not cash flow, it is EBITDA, which is not the same as cash flow. We were EBITDA positive - indeed we had a very high EBITDA, for many, many years, but our cash flow - both levered and unlevered - was negative until just a couple of years ago.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Of course you might not think much of Motley Fool (and I'm not universally enamored of them), but I think that Fool and I are more correct on this issue than you are.


I submit the earnings statements of the referenced companies are the best source. After all, an inaccurate earnings statement carries some serious penalties. Many companies show positive EBITDAs with negative cash flow. The original point, however, is that changes in revenue do not necesarily impact EBITDA directly, because reduced revenue may also mean reduced expenses. OTOH, a reduced EBITDA almost always does result in reduced profits, whether it means smaller positive profits, going from positive profits to negative profits (losses), or greater losses.

Almost universally in our sector, during the crash, our competitors scrambled desparately to increase their revenue, because both their covenants with the banks and their position in front of their investors was based strictly on revenue. So what did they do? They increased revenue... by taking on unnprofitable additional business. They aren't around any longer.

There is a very simple sayjng that supposedly intelligent busonessmen and investors for some odd reason fail (or refuse) to grasp: "You can't sell at a loss and make up for it in volume."​


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I just noticed you are missing San Antonio, Tx. TWC is 0x01 for everything but locals. I think - but am not certain - Grande has everything open.

Ditto for San Marcos and New Braunfels.


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## MrPresto (Jul 29, 2011)

Time Warner Cable
Erie County, PA - Erie Suburban Cable

All channels are copy protected, even local broadcast stations.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

MrPresto said:


> All channels are copy protected, even local broadcast stations.


That is contrary to FCC and government regulations. Local broadcast stations carried on cable must be set to 0x00.


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## cdjohnson (Apr 8, 2003)

Rochester, MN
Charter

Protected channels:
All Premiums (HBO, Starz, Showtime, Cinimax, etc)
107: Sprout


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## nrnoble (Aug 25, 2004)

What actually surprises me the most is that any network allows open transfers\copying of their programming (TiVo --> computer). It makes sense they want their content recorded by various DVRs to increase ratings by timeshifting, but not unretricted duplication via transferring to computer systems where they loose control of what happens to their content.

If premium networks like HBO, SHO, etc all lock down their content, why not ABC, NBC, or CBS?


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## mmcgown (Feb 7, 2002)

Because the three networks distribute their programming over public airwaves.


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

Comcast, Tucson AZ: Premiums only

Cox, Northern San Diego: All except locals


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

A thread that discusses my recent surprises with Charter in the St. Louis area:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=477695

They've started setting the CCI flags to Copy Once, so no MRV or TTG for HBO, Cinemax and Starz. Doesn't appear to affect Showtime. Happened with a "firmware update" they did back a few weeks ago.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

shrike4242 said:


> A thread that discusses my recent surprises with Charter in the St. Louis area:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=477695
> 
> They've started setting the CCI flags to Copy Once, so no MRV or TTG for HBO, Cinemax and Starz. Doesn't appear to affect Showtime. Happened with a "firmware update" they did back a few weeks ago.


Wahh .....  TWC protects ALL channels except local stations. Consider yourself lucky if only premiums are protected.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

This thread about Cox Phoenix CCI byte changes looks promising:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=478219

Confirmed that all digital HD channels that I have tried have CCI = 0x00 in Phoenix right now.

I don't have any premium channels so can't speak to that, but I would assume that they are still 0x02.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

djwilso said:


> This thread about Cox Phoenix CCI byte changes looks promising:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=478219
> 
> ...


All commercial free movie channels and premium channels are still CCI Byte: 0x02


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## jfalkingham (Jul 23, 2002)

Fwiw - comcast in the Boston area has gone 0x00 on all but premium channels. This started on 9/20/2011.


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## maturgeek (Dec 24, 2007)

Yup, Waco/Killeen TX TWC is applying 0x02 to all channels except locals.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Does anyone know if Time Warner can legally apply 0x02 to a local broadcast channel's digital subchannel? It's broadcast over-the-air so I would assume they cannot.

But here in Buffalo they are. (it's WGRZ 2.2, on their digital cable as 114)

If they're not allowed to, how can I get them to stop? Even if they're in violation of a single channel I want to turn them in.


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## deepthinker (Oct 25, 2002)

I just got a letter in the mail from Verizon today and have found one other online so far saying your card must be activated and that starting July 31st they will be enforcing the copy once broadcast flags on FiOS TV. Even a zipped copy of the PDF would be larger than this forum allows attachments by about 44k, but someone on another forum has scanned the letter already.

http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa...O_LTR_v1r4.pdf


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Does anyone know if Time Warner can legally apply 0x02 to a local broadcast channel's digital subchannel? It's broadcast over-the-air so I would assume they cannot.
> 
> But here in Buffalo they are. (it's WGRZ 2.2, on their digital cable as 114)
> 
> If they're not allowed to, how can I get them to stop? Even if they're in violation of a single channel I want to turn them in.


TWC doesn't care what you do or don't watch as long as the money's the same.

WGRZ has a financial interest in having you watch that channel.

Contact WGRZ and have them jump in TWC's s*1t about it.

Wouldn't hurt to tell the FCC, either.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

deepthinker said:


> I just got a letter in the mail from Verizon today and have found one other online so far saying your card must be activated and that starting July 31st they will be enforcing the copy once broadcast flags on FiOS TV. Even a zipped copy of the PDF would be larger than this forum allows attachments by about 44k, but someone on another forum has scanned the letter already.
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa...O_LTR_v1r4.pdf


Broken Link Fixed:
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/2013367~a4e3a0515b2e82182c1e90ace4d3dbf3/5112_HBO_LTR_v1r4.pdf


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

Engadget picked up on the topic too:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/28/verizon-fios-tv-cablecard-restrictions-copy-once/


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

unitron said:


> TWC doesn't care what you do or don't watch as long as the money's the same.
> 
> WGRZ has a financial interest in having you watch that channel.
> 
> ...


I tweeted TW about them going against the FCC by blocking that channel. They tweeted me back in about 10 minutes 

They're "looking into it". Should be fairly straight-forward, especially when I explained to them exactly what they need to do.

If they don't fix it, I'll contact someone else.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

deepthinker said:


> I just got a letter in the mail from Verizon today and have found one other online so far saying your card must be activated and that starting July 31st they will be enforcing the copy once broadcast flags on FiOS TV.


At least they're warning you guys.

When I was on Verizon FiOS in WA, before we got switched to Frontier, we (in WA and OR) had what we thought was an outage affecting most channels.

Turns out, they turned on CP on almost every channel (except the ones available OTA and a curious holes) but we hadn't paired our cards yet, since it wasn't necessary before. I wasted hours on the phone w/them. A few others here on TC were in the same boat.


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## Red Pimpernel (Dec 23, 2001)

Local channels and their digital sub-channels are 0x00
all other channels (basic analog and digital) are 0x02


----------

